20 Episode results for "Richard Can"

EP53 Finding UFOs With Richard Lennie

Weird Wacky Wonderful Stories Podcast

1:05:51 hr | 2 years ago

EP53 Finding UFOs With Richard Lennie

"Loon. Welcome to another episode of the weird wacky. Wonderful stories on cast with your hosts Sheni unbalanced. Hey, everybody. Welcome to episode fifty three of the weird whacky. Am wonderful stories punt cast. Hello, everybody. We are going to take a little bit of a break from the norm on the next episode. We are going to show, which is just to again, we've been by a number of our listeners. Now, if we could do a show just about us, not just about us, but just with us like the way we used to. So we're gonna do that on the next episode. But today we have a special treat for you because we've got with us a follow gist. Whether you say you just now are you fall adjust. Yeah. Okay. Yes. It would be otherwise. It'd be unidentified flying allergist. He's a researcher from the UK. He's been doing it for more than thirty years. He can be famed on the circuit in lots of different. People is experiences and the different things that he has investigated. I think you're gonna love this because this is definitely something which literally open your eyes to the stuff going on in the skies above you clever. Please welcome to the show. Richard lenny. Hi, how are you? Good. Thank you very much. How are you doing? I'm by eight yes and Sunday. And it's raining outside. But somebody the guys. That's right. We're not a million miles away from you because we're only up in Monmouth. So I think probably as the crow flies, probably only about forty five minutes away from each other, but probably maybe an hour hour away in the car, because your around western super Maria's, I correct, right? Yeah. But thirty minutes away from Bristol. So. Yes. Sunny, west is no, maybe not stain not today. We say sunny normally because of the tourist information that may be listening. I know that obviously, we're gonna talk about some of your research, as we go along Tripos show. But initially, I believe through doing our research into you and your story. You're in all your experiences, I started and then came to that you had with a friend of yours when you were younger and I know this is around the time of the Rendel Shem incident. Can you tell us a little bit back this? That's right. I mean full that over looking, yet, they sort of like black rates say, you get back in the day, back in the seventies, you know with the, the phase going to Washington DC and stuff. So that's how I really getting interested in it. But I never actually had an account with anything until the end of the nineteen eighty. So I would have been December time I've done of the day, but it was definitely December. And I was coming home from work. He was my first. Yeah. I worked after I left school. I remember it was about six o'clock in evening. Just going, then I just got off the bus, and I never did that. Small village called uptown. That is a school after primary school, which is where I used to go and I won't around the corner from the bus stop. I know just in the distance, there's a hill with the church on it. That was these come moves, either six or seven but there were red lights in sort of, like haw circle, and they were just like hanging in the sky, but they were read. They went wind and I was unusual 'cause we'll probably like display, you know, planes coming over something as they must be going away, the red. But they were getting closer and closer to getting big I saw soon as just sit down and washed and they were getting closer towards my school, my friend, Glenn came, and he must've another bus and you know what I was doing. So I said to look, you know, there's some strange place in the sky. And what do you think, and he sort of stood with me? And they came quite close. I mean he's difficult say it was it was dog they was sort of, like I would say, probably four to five hundred feet up in the air. S quite close, and they would definitely post about yard past pill church, and it was sort of just, just above my school, and they hold it down. And by this time, the booze might were quite large, but, again, they were cross red, and then all of a sudden, the outer to moved up and they, they went up quite high, and then he went into semi so cool and then they came back down again into the formation and that was pretty odd. So we both to each other thinking, okay, what's going to happen next. And then what a sudden they started to move very slowly, and they came right over I had, and I look at top, I remember, thinking it looked as if they being connected in some way, like it was one big Croft, and then they literally short off really fast. And that was that, but I noticed. I mean, this whole thing probably took about ten to fifteen minutes from the moment, I saw it. They flew off, I do remember thinking of woods, which was quite strange produced six o'clock an evening. Everybody would be coming home from work, but there was no one else around. Round from the moment that I'm corner. It was only him a me. No one else has new cars going by there's no other buses going by new people walking around. But of course, at the time it was so involved in what we were saying, maybe we, you know, we just missed them. I don't know. But I later on how strange that was, and I needed literally are supposed to minute from where that was, when I got home, like I say, it was only about fifty minutes in total, I think the whole thing too. But when I got home, my grandma lived, with she said, my tea was ruined wide being, you know, is relate. But of course, I didn't think to time. So how late I was. But I think it was strange. I must most bit of time. The now, people do say to me, we'll diedhiou till Noces. Do you think they've took you and I don't know. I mean, I remember saying, you know, standing there with the time while the thing for the so whether they did take nor Glen, I don't know. But I know this much that off to that experience my friend, Glenn wouldn't talk about it. Anymore and the only time he did talk about it. And I say, you know, likes that we saw grungy member few years ago, and he was going, the white lights. And I said, no, they wouldn't white red. And he seemed to think that white either he forgot, they would read and, or he sold them as whites. And I saw them as read was old. But yeah, he, he didn't really want to talk about a tool, and also I will just mention at the end of that week, I think must have been Monday or Tuesday. We have our local Merkley come out, and it was reported one board of red light with seen flying around western Ashfield. We have down here funny enough the chop nature on who was working with me. He actually sold one board of red line. And I said to yeah, I remember that night a we sold seven. So obviously, what must have happened off the flew over us. They must have split up and going their separate ways and over she wasn't stayed in western and the others flew off. We only saw. As a complete formation as, as a complete unit, but they must have flown off in different directions. I think did you report it to anyone? No, no. I didn't know reported a tool and like I said, I, I mean at this moment of thing or they it, you know, we had no internet wasn't really. You know, I didn't think to report it was always see people did because they, they went to move over it. And it was lot of talk around our town about hell Boorda, red light, it was flying around with wasn't it? I'm always thinking. Yeah. But we saw seven six or seven you know, no one should that. You haven't done the hypnosis aggression leapt would you ever for overly? Yeah. I mean it might be worth doing supposed to some point. But I never thought it was necessary because far as I was concerned, I hadn't lost any time as such even though overseeing my t was really wanna go back how much time. I'd lost total from that moment of seeing the UFO's. Gain home. I'll we'll never know never thought to check 'cause then you didn't, you know, when the sort of thing you thought about doing, but now would do definitely first thing I do is time. The fact that you used to look at some of the old books, they used to have a in the seventies was that the extent to which your interest in the UFO phenomena was back then or. Well, yeah. I mean I even did a New Orleans Sam at school enough on how to say a USO on a fake Goff. How did that because it was photography thing. I was doing from my org, Sam, and I use that part of it. We actually say to salsa going the brain down because I don't if you remember, but that was a show back around that sort of time. It was called something like UFO, if I think it was literally just called. UFO. It was a group of researches that will, I guess it was like a move on type thing where they, they were going to report of UFO's, and they were constantly trying to in that show trying to fake the sightings, so that they could almost debunk what the person seen so I can remember doing it myself. I remember having this little Halloween a- point, and click camera and throw in something up in the myself and China take a photo of it and seeing if I could if I could actually get some kind of image. Oh, yeah. No quite interesting. Yes. That's how sorry I know he seen those like black and white photos, you know, new big books. We get from the library and stuff from second. I'm Blake Shelton. I found interesting, my own loaded them, so he led them over to me. And then, of course this, this was back in the seventeen like I said, and then had. Closing rouse. But we're suppose it was really closing home to calling back in nineteen eighty December. And then a cool often van, then I started looking up in the sky more. You know, waiting to see if I could see something else, and occasionally, I would see the old. Thing I wasn't sure a sort of fiber, which is you don't see those rails. And, and I wondered if that was US I bore on fire, but I think I will justifiable, but, but when shooting through the sky, and of course, I see the lights, and I wasn't sure what they will them whether they would have to, like, some nor had no night vision criminal had nothing was just using my eyes. So I take my Benach knows I'd God up to pill hill, where the church was, and I'd see you know, if I see anything going on and occasional, which little thing, wasn't sure about, but nothing untoward. And then that's basically where it was until ins net crows came out pro play in the mid nineties. And then, of course, it also cough. And then I discovered, Nick pope who at the time was looking out in the ministry, the funds. So I phoned him up my office, where I was working and going straight through to them and told them about mine counter toy just told you too. I did record it but years. Later. So, yeah, so we're not sure the own still questions. You know, I did. No into knowing t full straight ninety five. Nick say what was his impressions. Ray noise to the site. I mean we'll net for about fifteen minutes and right up thing down, and I don't yeah. Yeah, got another, citing papers being shuffled, you know, 'cause, you know, go something else here, which is race, what you said, 'cause I'm wondering if I was to do with the render from parts. But he didn't say sorry on that, that's quite an interesting point because you wouldn't an I haven't spoken to Nick yet. And he's definitely somebody that we'd like to get on the show. But it's interesting if you wanna. That would be amazing. Yeah, what's interesting is that you wouldn't expect to phone. What was somebody working in a government facility at that point, and actually have them then share information back with you? And I guess I guess it's kind of a testament really to the type of investigator researchers turned into because he wasn't going to continually toe the party line he had to oversee fall within certain guidelines when he was doing the job. But obviously now he is, is much more open. I think researcher shares everything. The commodity show, cutting agreed on because I've done to with the guy, you know, he's been with me. When we've done these folks together and, and yeah, he has, I've noticed, he's come, right island, this loss, FYI is definitely, so, yeah, so I did record that instant, and then said, I kept in touch them. So I always out him and charge him on the phone every now and again because he lives in America. He married in America. But so I didn't receive much anymore, but still keeping coincide. So then often bans, then I started noticing a lot more stuff on the internet. You know, people seem stuff and everything and taking fetters these discs and remain the stuff, you know, like able Kroft, this and things like that keeping an eye on that, and then I got night with my brother and we'd go up to this role. So like place coop lead inhale. It went really high out Raymond road. There's a lot of supposed to be a lot of like horns up there and stuff and we went up there, and we spend must have been probably around ten eleven o'clock at night again. It was dog and the sudden hit this rumble 'cause field vibration into the road. I mean, there's noone around -pletely dad and we were looking up and it was a beautiful. Remember stores everywhere. And I look at my brother. John John tomorrow. Sounds like Sunda initials goes on his. Truth twenty cars king coming up hunting us release looney and stopped one nitty touch the back of my own cool. I mean, they came back close run-up up to us and then nobody's guys in suits go down. And they just stood by the cause, but the front was a police car or nude like police going, there will be usual stuff on it, and I'm in those river and there was a policeman in it. I mean just doing some. I don't know why it was about him them. I was responding. I changed to plane spotting instead and I used to do that. And then we started chatting about plane sporting and stuff. Favorite plane in the and then this is really strange. Right. And then my brother's smoked at the time and, you know, the policemen for line piecing gave him in the nine and then I said to him 'cause before this happened, there was one call they shot past. It was remember it was a moon thing. Blue close with three will never forget it. So Koufi Sumed us, who they were off to me seemed in stolen cost about this time when what was going on. And we know about car no interested in. Okay. And then for about fifty minutes. He was just turned to nobody's other policemen. Will we see no place when they went in uniform, they wouldn't suit rule stood by these calls? I mean it probably wasn't twenty caused but that was a load of 'cause it was leased ten twelve then more. We look I what was done with some sort of like please convention going on up here, you know, he was re with, and then the, the thing about it. What's my car was parked over on the side never get? It was from and I remember I hadn't got the tax for the car. It was out of tax say what he was going to notice. He wasn't. He didn't even look he didn't even get out the car, his police cards, chat, my car. I didn't wanna know if I'm right car what he was interested in what we were doing. I'm he was twenty as much information out of this as possible. Anything Komi member them going next remembers being my car. Take my brother back home. And then after that on driving back home to my in house again and member seeing one police car going the other way. I just wanna look to me really stood and that was up. So I was aware knowing. Yeah. This would have been late knowing tease by ninety eight ninety nine no story. No, no, no, no. This been earlier 'cause I've know from that this would have been nineteen nineteen ninety one. Blacks ING came people's attention about men in Manhattan, what they record originally. And men in black. Yeah. Yeah. 'cause he would have been knowing this would have been nineteen ninety straighten ninety one. So, yeah, I wouldn't even know about that tool Seuss given forward a bet what you do. Now is you have your night vision equipment, and, you know, things that you use, and you go out at night, and what do you do? Okay to get up point by twenty ten twenty eleven inch NAT. Let's go discard America coat at. And he, he was saying, night-vision using through night vision equipment, and he had left his phone number on his website. So I will give him a ring and just say, you know if if all this stuff is true. And so two an hour sound and he said, Richie need get these night visions, he said go generation threes. You see loads and stuff. So not bad at night. And I'm saying triangle craft I'm seeing shape, but you can only see it through night vision. You call see we didn't get on. So I feel okay we'll get visions vision generation threes of I will legal in UK. You can only got two plus the two plus one's like two and a half, three ground. There's a lot of money. So I went for one plus which is about five six hundred pounds. I try so at did she come over with Grimsley? Yeah. She did come over for eight days and Stabers me, my house, and all his night vision stuff, Avis or how generation freeze generation full, which is like total military. And I'm telling you the high, the generation, the better it is because but you see, I is believable. I mean the cross our up that, that you see floating around. I mean you see that lights oversleep but, you know, stuff is flying around are there is just amazing. And you sort of you is away from the night, visions, and then there and then you put him back over and you see them again. Our atmosphere. Now, things are in space, right? Okay. Yeah. Actually in space as well. I mean you see stuff oversleeping, you know, atmosphere, but I'm talking out in space it. So this stuff really so like moving around, like making crazy maneuvers this like glitch in going on as well. We like it's like we're in a game, you know, let you you're looking through a games machine, and all of a sudden, you're games machine glitches. So you're looking at Croft moving quickly, you know, out in space. It would jump and then they'll go back into full nation. Again, it's really weird like glitch. Is it easy to distinguish say commercial airplane from these other sorts of things? Is it really ease with, with a plainer they go and you go their life, flashing, and you to you gotta look away, because it can get your eyes, right? Right. Right. Christmas tree. And he goes, quite slowly. And then the ones that are way you still see the lights, flashing and stuff like that, for these things are like little ovals or little triangles old. They take tax, you know, will be like long sort of oblong oil or like a road. And they move really quickly but the ones noches that you come see, we donate at all you own literacy them night vision because we do see stuff that you kinda see we didn't always well we spent vision, but the ones claimed they own. They like ghosts like only see through a name move really quick. I'm talking say fast, you, you know, you gotta keep up with it, and you can lose it. So he's in monotones, most Croft, because they just Musso fall there. Oh, my like you see the stars through it, you know. So he's sort of like a no shape Croft, but it's almost like a ghost, like a see through and need. You cannot see your naked eye tool, and it's hard to be able to distinguish the two because like I said he moves so quickly. But if you follow it, if you go big enough scope, you can fold it from a distance and you got nothing new white. You can move the knives away from your eyes. So you still going to interview students still for that. And you look about yo yo night visions, and it's just nothing that there was just nothing there tool, but he's in the night vision. So is that they the, the night vision, Pau picking up. Say, for instance, ED's was with you a particular time. And you both saw the same thing, different Benach Liz, you different scope. So you see in our you corroborate each other. So. We 'cause oversee on the nights when he was here, we go different paths. So I like generation phrase he was using generation full, and we can Rachel got one point two ruffea walls. And then I'd look and yet we follow at, but we've seen exactly the same thing. It's an after fact on because it's being coordinated another point to that. So when we researching this show, we came across a challenge that you put two skeptics to come view some your images, and see you believe it was in the mercury something mercury did any of the skeptic's, take you up on that offer. I took him out with visions and we oversee, I didn't we've got stuff through. This is the problem you can go weeks. And they'll saying anything and then all of a sudden you have a great now you but I did get one. Yeah. Did change him. Whoa. Okay. Maybe there is something to almost get a pet I need to get past. And now he's doing it. While I'm doing. Yeah. This is why I do. I do I do it for money. They write books or anything like that in books, but I didn't like the Amaechi just doing wing it. This truth out here. It gets many people to buy visions as possible, so they can see this stuff. But that's doing the night time now that it's completely different method if you wanna see during the day, but you can see during the days. Well, this note, cloudy, schooling blue sky. I mean it's cheaper. I can discover this these discovered by gentlemen, who at the time was strata, who's also very good friend of mine researchers, while could lifelong by luckily, new back now lives in Belgium, but he was in Australia. Whether weather was fantastic. Most of, you know, do scarring, and he'd be sitting on his roof to today, and he'd be recording all this stuff, so we'll you need basically is to go on EBay, get a secondhand kind quarter you know, when they'll ones that takes a tape, but it must must have a screw thread lens on the front because you're gonna have to put a filter on it. Otherwise, this isn't gonna work. No old concord have tread lenses. So you must get one with a screw thread lens. I think cannon do them Olympic student. So that's good quality. Secondhand, you're probably be looking about one hundred twenty pounds. This come quota maybe a bit less. But you must get a very good quality filter and the winter. I commend Messa. Eight fifty infrared filter now this filter wolves that you. About eighty to one hundred pounds or say the whole set of about two hundred critic to save enough. It will you need. Nothing else. They screw thread, the filtering lens, you then on these oldies, ten quarters, by the way, who was quote, a shot function, which means if you wanna video something at nighttime, you put that on and gives you better light to infrared, basically. So you'd be doing that doing it you in the daytime nighttime. She switch a concord it two infrared, which is not show master functions. Cool, which on he switches zoomed in Finnity. That's very important straight to Infinity. Okay. You filter on the front, okay? Bang away from garden. You look up in the blue sky. You pan very slowly. And guarantee within two minutes, you'll find this fear. Okay. These fears are up there, twenty four seven three sixty five and we think that drones and all about big about pro size. An old style mini retain on sixties many round, and they're up that and they hold around about thirty to forty thousand feet and three morning zoom on Infinity, but you will find them and then just watch them push record button and just record them and see what they do. And you'll find that when it jet learning that goes paused, it'll go up into the into the jet a photo at, and sometimes he'll take some of the contra, and we think were doing now is checking to me show by these, you know, it's damaging the planet docked, what we think that, that because they seem to do they seem to observe check things out. Occasional come down. The most the time, step run about thirty forty five feet and there's about one to every between ten and thirty miles throughout the succumb fr- until the earth. There is literally millions and millions of these things. And they're that all the time now I've been researching this for five years, and I've got other people to record them forming a working as a team Joe most who's also, but massive powerful telescope and he catches them. He takes better to them need actually call them leaving us going out towards a moon. I mean, we'll say seem them coming from the moon coming about towards the oversee from the moon, a little boy dogs, but they all those fears, and they come out of what we think is cooled, the Aristocats crater, which is one of the craters on the moon and by the come from. But I think they come from the parliament as well. No saying, you'll come from the name, but they seem to a lot of them seem to come from that Paul the moon. And then we follow him back, and they get cost the ice s or the ice overseas them. They come into our atmosphere, on the hung around about city forty thousand feet out, and he's one Hawkin on about a didn't if you see no my Facebook page lately about planes how he's not safe. They hit planes every now. And again, they didn't them probably realising come off the plane, a good straight, but it's no I mean sometimes as a good strike, but you can see the different new blood new feathers. It's a lot bigger, the tencent bigger and the painful crack till fit and ministry of goal, these things they seem them as well. S sixteen General Dynamics, flat, and these fears afloat in between the two of them will be recorded so down in the navy log, they see them as well. They've even tried to engage with them. And the thing just flies off shoot-off think that these are. Different type of. I mean to begin they were all they wouldn't even extra-terrestrial until of course, we noticed where they were going Nusa compromise your own planes. It'd be stupid, wouldn't it? They've got to be from somewhere, but we don't know where we don't who's controlling, but we think, is being controlled something a little bigger because these knowing that, and he's a drains, but enor- dreams that someone else's drains and they're observing their visiting everything we do. And we think we could we don't know this is what we're assuming that recording. Everything we do. And the reason I say that because wherever there is a disaster in the world like on your side, twin towers volcano wars. That'd be that that'd be watching. They went into fair or that watch when we see them, that's why the watching 'cause recording. You up these images and a place where maybe yourself on your fellow. Researchers all also to collect this information. On Facebook, Facebook page. Yeah. I don't so much taken some other friends of taking the point now where I didn't do any more just of the people do it for me. And they send me the photos. I mean, I know they're out there, but I'm still doing the research with John Wilson on this because is very important because they do hit on planes, and I think that's why sometimes when a plane falls out of a perfect blue sky, no weather thirty five thousand feet, and they could it part of IRA would I say, the play malfunctioned pretty sure these is they hit their own part of the plane. And I said game over. Quoted Facebook page, where it said that you suggested an crash in the UK here may have been dying to UFO coming into contact with a jet juice still believe that was the case in that situation. I say that we as well on ninety to wash video because what I was doing 'cause I shows, a brilliant place, by the way to find these fears. Another Norma nieces. Well, other Croft and I noticed is the plane was doing loop. That was this thing it flew across, and it seemed to hit the fuselage or one of the tanks underneath the hulk which keeps the fuel, it seems bound so fit, and I play it back and forth, all the time on the big, big TV screen that you need a big TV screens here. Pope lake and I see phone the police up and said at the time I think it was a dry. And I couldn't I but definitely some normally UFO under the song of yet. But I said, you know, they were extraterrestrial and like I said, I think you've got a drone or something hit the plane with a pot and it must have seen it lost moment, which is why he didn't do the loop as big as he should have done to. When it came down to know crushed. I'm standing by this day in John fool me, because he's got a ready computer and he put on different filters. He said rich this isn't the only place, whether it's is check this out, and it was over the display. I mean this thing was flying around. It was on about sixteen different frames. So that day guy when he was fine that whole had this fear thing flowing over them. And yeah, I still I still spend boy definitely under percents. That you posted in Stephanie competitive, watching the recent activity that we had with suppose it drones that you can buy off the shelf recently got cable. I was looking into that recently and find that there's no footage that we can actually see of this drone. And in fact, there's been some reports recently suggested that maybe there wasn't even a drone. It makes me wonder whether I know I'm going down the hall so conspiracy Robert Hall Lia, but whether they wall something, the likes of which y'all talkin about that was maybe in the area that stopped this from going on, and they just didn't want to let you know, do you have any feelings about that? About the stand. That was up about the apple, I go to guy, Jim Guy, comment name like unto somebody he lives down on the end of the runway and he's friends face. But just purely by Chun's, and he contacted me. And said rich Devi heard about these drones. And I haven't told him it was too busy doing stuff, so went on them. So the news and full logging this going on. And he said, I think it's one of those fears, so he took a folk off it and send it to me. And yet it was so we can only assume that must have been what it was and they shut the damn said it was drones flying. And I'll tell you something when I saw the guy's being interviewed outside the house that were supposed to been to people, the amount of the women that was supposed to be flying drained late go squash. You could tell the acting so obvious. You know, the whole thing was a complete sham. Yeah. Yeah. They close they closed up because a sphere came close was holding the gun. Got my opinion anyway, in guns took a photo of it, and showed it to me. And he said dies a drone too big to be a drone. So I got my foul. Endeavoring who's you went to, because I heard you talk about this probably ten years ago, and I know there's some more information that you've got on this recent I don't know that you're looking to go back again. Can you let all this? No, because this is absolutely fascinating. Teeny shape. Rich TV on that going, the car park, could you said he knew of a lady who seeing stuff going on in her garden, and she went up to lead conference with potatoes, nobody wanted to know so she was really destroyed by would iphone and see if I can find out a bit more about what's going on. So I did, and loving late in the sixties could mean a lived in Devon a lovely house with a hundred acres of land, and it's all secure, you know, you can't get in as fenced-off, but she's got all this lined, and she says that just using it, you know, for doing experiments with and relying Croft at the weekend, and she says, I've seeing AT beams coming down and taking up soil the water. She goes my cat is being taken. So I seem like I didn't know what to do raise so much going on. Can you help me? So when I'm coming down arranged anyway. And I went down there for the weekend. State with the took my quit. I don't know. See my night vision camcorder everything and that we got on Netflix the first night. Well, actually, the first day before even night fell, he was telling me about Orla experiences seeing and stuff like that. And then she goes on video to show you go. I'm portable TV I'm going to link it all up and put the video into it. I'll show you. So she did that a bowl of life show pass me, and it was downstairs bedroom window, it cook bold in the bedroom window, and mounted the television, and it wasn't even plugged in. He screens. I mean, I could smell bedding plastics horrible streams running out of these brand new TV fourteen inch portable with except video cut thing, and that and should Richard. They've just been kind of I don't mean to show you a combat leader. And I saw that the street of likening proc- literally just miss my stomach. Like it was like learning something show, what it was, you know, new, having to quickly and I do think should show you on the TV. But she explains me he was a triangle cross that went over things breeze while she was going to do shopping and video she took from the car looking up. She said when she go back for the Kosei, and it wasn't a in the condo cannot she was in the Croft looking down above all the houses. The video shows all you know the rooftops scenes breeze. We've toppled the houses 'cause people are, like, you know, miniature she must have been a good five thousand feet up, maybe a bit less five eight hundred feet up, but she was really high. And you could see she was looking out of the call. You could see PA the Croft anyway this video, I laid to get see. Let's put it this way. She faked to shoot them how to too. Something she was high up, and she was looking down and you could see thing you know, and she wasn't in the car looking up, which is wedged since she was inch to the end. So I that was the star of that. And then night falls, it'd been raining. She says, oh they've landed here in the front, you know, and the grop on the front driveway, come have enough and Chetnik 'cause. And looked as if the car in part because I wasn't rent, but it was still raining. And the water was not hitting that part of the driveway and should the Kaufman still be here, but his closed, and it was just completely dry punch to good back inside. Now when trust goes. Ooh. I think they're out front again this time. They're taking a soil. She said as being I think, coming down just checked. She goes by car. Seems to these things to happen. She gets a sense, and she runs back Richard. She get you get you import a there. I don't know that taking soil, so I run outside. I seem nothing. There's nothing and she said, I need to concede them by the way, the shouldn't eat any, and she, which we get unite visions night, visions, still nothing even through nineteen beautiful. Clearview twenty p in front of me of trees, Groff's nothing. Obscene. The thing is good, infrared, which, I don't like to take more power, the battery, but I did anyway. And then bang that he would forty five square and go to beams, coming from the sky coming out kidney, shaped plasma type shake thing that was working by was Ford's no cloud level. So this kidding shape, thing was below the cloud beans coming down from taking up something didn't know what it was because I could see stuff going through the beams and she told me it was soil to lake shore discovered. It was so anyway, I go to record, this might not visions and fortunate that particular time didn't record I'd no memory card in it. So what I did was we didn't go to ten. Quota hooping pick it out. And it did because I went to that night short thing you know, we can go to him for it. And then they were so push recalled button. So little this on a memory stick. And I put my is way from the time, Korda and such a weird feeling to look at it because you can see the. Team still coming down through the viewpoint. But you look in funny unit nothing that looks even playing a pre recording take but I'm not doing it live, and I'm recording. So I go back up and I'm watching it. I'm gonna say mean what are they doing them? She has taken up soil shoots. They do this. They take berries. They take acorns that they came water from my made pund. So the light firmers snow checking to make sure that went on messing up the, the and then she goes to me, this is the best big because you can hear talking you can't say you can hear tokens Macias rich richer and move around the building, what she says that they are starting to move something, like whoa, the world. So I follow, and then I stopped recording she runs in the back to go out of the back 'cause she can see them anyway. And so Richard golden going not was on an in the morning. I went out to the garden bag Nettie, where full by two inches across four inches down perfect machine. Hose, or whatever across hundreds and hundreds of hose, where they taken up, so and there was berries. The berries have been beautifully peeled, open inside gone shows left, a that had been laser cut. I mean you try cutting acorn with very sharp knives Bush impossible. And these were just leave slice. They take off the other half stays on the ground. Now gold is, well, that's a veteran still. And a good alyssum. I'm video plus other stuff as well as their mass, so. Available for people to watch again on Facebook. I hadn't shame his twenty from one person and that was Kevin Smith. I did it on his shy, human fada. He punched away and then we don't wanna sit. Yeah. Yeah. And then the whole thing was taken down. Believe it on the internet. So people that recorded at didn't they get this, right? And people have recorded our program, nine or Richard, I go you Kevin Smith. Okay to send it to you, please. They send me it corrupts my computer, so you don't. One sister vine. Do you get the notion that the phenomenon is aware that you're observing them? And the reason why ask this is because we spoke to pull Klay. Don't if you know polio through the truth poof tears. He was playing some of the reports that he's compiled seem to suggest there's intelligence where that they are actually being watched. And in some cases, may even put on a show will move towards the viewer a you aware that maybe the intelligence is aware of you watching them. I mean while I was seeing these beams coming down. I gave go to Nina started to rule. 'cause I wanted to go into the beams, you've not concede my naked Ari. She grabbed Poos me back. Did you say you wanted to walk under the beams? Yeah. Me too. I don't know why the ones in holes in the ground. Yeah. Yeah. Richard. You're a brave man. I don't know why did literally when I went to I didn't even know what I was doing. I gave the component started woke. And she literally grabbed me by my job can pull me back. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Win. If not. I don't know. Why did you hear cases don't you have people compelled in the middle of the night? They wake up in the middle of the night and they compelled to. Approach the light, that's beaming into that closed curtains. After that went into one of their other gardens. I'm so I heard the field they all feel it's not gone. And this power pose, you know, in and stuff, and he's like little sheds with a car, and oh, he's on forever, and ever and ever. And there's 'cause she told me that massive big cross landed in this field. So I thought going up. So when in this field at night with flashlight after all this happened with the beams, and I could see an outline of something that landed, and I kinda explain such, but it was like a grab a thing go into the swim backup over. So, right. Oversleeping held onto the gross, I suppose it must have been feet or something, and it like clam down into the soil, and they made these funny monks. And there's no way you can say it. I mean it would have taken forever to done run. This thing was she went on the length of the field thing was massive. It was huge. And she says what happens is doing the week. This is what she's telling me. Cross flava smoke cross. Okay. Triangle Kroft actually crossed some land landing field. And then she doing is having a look to make sure everything is clear to the mothership learns the week. And then on the south bay learns in this field and should the spins get out sees them. She's, they will meet to go over there. I know they do when we go in the cross I said, Nina's will do back in the sixties. And seventies we had cross that used to land in foam as far as you some foam is used to run away. Some used to go for, you know, in these Croft because that's what they wanted to do. And I think what was happening here. It was Lee. Fifties sixties was going on. They'll getting ready. Full disclosure. Getting ready to show themselves government and then came in with project blue book, and shut holding down, doc, my personal belief. What was going on these ET wanted us to knows that they were here? I know getting us ready. Full disclosure taking us for a ride in that. Cross showing us what they look like and stuff like that sharing to I thought that's friendly. And then they drop them back down again know they fly away and this is having the world documented. And I mean, this is what they want you to do to do, and I can see them in the go, and go go go, I would have done, but she wouldn't do okay for enough. So she just watch them, you know, from her window. She could see them in the field. And I said, I think that's what they want. You to do you know but yeah, it was a lot of stuff going on down there. I can't stops like wolf and all of a sudden looks like it's going to be sick. And then this would you start to see it disappear. And the tiles from the kitchen comes through the cat 'cause like by the you know by the rule, and then he's gone it takes two minutes. So likes me on a Star Trek. But it's about quick a little slower. Yeah. And then two hours later it'd be merely. So I wouldn't to come in just don't have a cat flap. So she has physically let it in the car is never, ever been to that. If never been always gonna go see coat never had any problems with the tool. She said that she thinks they look off the time. Make sure it's kind it was comes back and now she does just kinda I was wanting to go out of couse begin with. She wouldn't let our and of course, when they took her, you know dot way now she just let's cut out in the car goes and comes about their own. And we went on the air and what to hope to achieve, then what you plan. We're going to do. I'm like can we most? And again, he's other research and he we're going to go down with his drums 'cause he's got Lee really. Took cruelty drains, full K cameras among talking, the woods, you know, everything on it. Infra-red is woods mobile gonna do is we're going to fly these around with Commissioner of the perimeter of hundred acre armed and try. And see if we can get some footage of the stuff is going on. But my main first thing I wanted to when I get down there is obviously see her again, not the do go in there have a Cup of tea with that. She's, you know, find that Meyer staying and doing research doesn't mind that if she's not there anymore and someone else in for property now, then overseas bit of a problem, though, she was on about sunning originally. But when I left, that first time I discover a met make a friend of mine on Facebook. He is some research for me, and he said that the Mike cla marry. Arms run right through property, literally right through her. House out the other side and go into Stonehenge. And I think these Michael, Mary lanes, which the biggest headlines anyhow from UK. I think that helps to bring this out and from the sick of November, which was Saturday, twenty ten when there was a Bom far party gun on Nina was walking out of the winding that's when it will start at the Nina before that she didn't believe in UFO's swin thing she was rubbish facts when it was started. And that's when they gave the ability to see even Fred spectrum, which, of course, is humanly impossible, so she's proved to me, I've go video poop, all that as well. What's going on scene stuff going on that too? So we knew the height, me and Fred spectrum. But we will sit here they come out into the open. We know they watch us because over say you think about it those beings coming down, if I am had Nina that, how would I have known what putting the comment to coat them because I. Wouldn't have seen them with my own eyes, I would have gone out by for smoke that the dog island, whose main property, I wouldn't even name and in the morning if I was gonna cut the grass most tool hose. Oh, just assumed. It was an animal done it. Nothing more of it. So even though would beautifully machine, you know, and everything. So this is try say they could be, you know done about your garden. You wouldn't even know you know you wouldn't even what was going on. They hide ninety percent of the time. And I think why the hiding now in the infrared spectrum is because they know that we can see no more night-vision, which is a full move. I are, you know, they clicking themselves even more now and hide himself. We do have quit been or the equipment exists to be able to see it even movement. Find some other way. But. That they're cloaked. Yeah, yeah. That's true. Yeah, I, I wanted I sometime I seen crossed clogs unclothed and included in where they gonna problem with that device, seemed like anyway, but yeah. Do they know that that clothes, they I don't know is, she communicates through full process? She says, 'i communicates, with them strange because obviously they don't care. She sees it. Well, they've given it the ability to see them. They didn't have to do. Anyone else? See it. So why wonder would it is about her that they think she's trustworthy enough? Or maybe she will unwittingly pay up in the disclosure, if that's what they're looking for with the recent reports, Richard of coming out from the USA force pilots by the contact, they've had with unexplained craft to think I may be a time to actually start submit in all of your evidence if possible to mainstream media cetera could be. Could be the idea Tober resigned. Dangerous, isn't it? You done how far you can go with it. That's the problem. How much can you give and what will happen? The consequences of, you know is. Our government or or whatever. But also, you know, if you piss whatever it is off. Then I'll tell you this side was living. I'm hoping she still lives that day that was running on the end. And she had a guide living Naff at twelve months. And then all of a sudden over to them, she never told me, the reason mois Gobert of him. He did something they, she didn't like it. Got rid of him. Anyway. He coming back. She'd be watching TV in the living room and it's and she'd see him in the bushes, somehow go in, you know, the funds was see, she called the please, please come out confined him anyway. This goes on for few weeks. And then they cut him. They finally catch him. Okay. So they take the rest of them by an hour. Later piece Mun comes by some of the dual who's just to tell you by law. You have to know this, this guy used to with 'em. I five you know, retired say, yeah, I know, but he used to with my five and a half to tell you that. Something. Yeah. He knew what was going on in Mena's house. He found out. So he in there. So humid to be doing head of research and not much going back to 'em five. So they knew about it treated the subject slightly. We were called in this show Littler ahead of time. And in fact, today's today that we released episode fifty two which is some new, we believe familiar with you. Mark wyatt. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So he gave us a story by some UFO's over, h queuing KOMAL. And he said that some of the reports that he obtained actually describe the craft being sculpted almost with fighters with our fighters. Okay. And then moving up the coast towards Bristol Wales cetera. Jus think that what you'll see in maybe is linked in some way, with what was describing. Going to sit funny enough actually only about three days ago. That was your phone here in Weston. And I didn't even any about it. I have missed it, but that was a lie in the sky above, you know, western superman around, but I think there will link and somewhere or another. But as far as how many types of, you know, extraterrestrial beings, there are all they all like the same identity, you know, hard to say, we'll hear phase, and that the end of the day, but what can only go by what people tell you and hoping that telling you the truth. Traction these people come in about a, you know, prominent people are in the military people that are trained observers, right? We had since I started doing this show, which initially we just wanted to do for fun. But it has just taken off really in a way that we never expect it Kodak infect. So till the front show team. Hasely you'll see them. Something a couple of weeks. Well, a couple of months ago, we were coming back. One evening, it was dusk. So it wasn't totally dock at, but it was certainly getting that way. I'm both looked up in the sky. And we saw something just both looked at exactly the same place. Both described similar things. My description was that it was a long cylindrical type Kroft almost like had a tail like a sting race or tailed behind it about what was it? You hide was it, you described it to me, it looked more like lights just streak lights, and it was there it started to move, and then it was gone. You know what I saw was this thing. Like I said the almost had to tell like it was weapon that just shot overhead it was absolutely bizarre. And, you know, if I was to think of think to myself, you know, I would I imagine a UFO should certainly wouldn't have been a so long cylindrical thing with what like a Stingray's tail with dra-. Again. Say that 'cause I got lady lives in London who sees these weird and teeth flying around, and she won them came replace a window and I had a heartbeat like a heart beating in it. So, yeah. I mean, they're all UFO's are living type creatures, you know, have to be like discs and stuff like that. There's also stuff flying around up there road since another one, you know, they can also be called sky fish, narrow really sort of where they fly really fast. You can hardly see them to make it on. But cameras can catch them a new these leave on their immunities. If you watch you see them the editor, the direct didn't cut them out. Whatever reason me there in that news. Looking for movies, so. Clint Eastwood, he's climbing the. Plainest find across like an extra set missile caddies heroes. It seems like cleanly Eastwood movie. You see them like world, the at the sky fish road Levy, like. Levy like with he when you play go flying, you know, the monsters going the clubhouse. Oh, much. What he was huge received a wish I recorded it. Yeah. An hour away from you. If I was able to. And if we could arrange it could I come along and have a look at some of the things you're looking at with equipment. Kgo eight something. John. Thank you very much. Well, a whole 'nother show that is. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So in terms of if other people want to have a look at some of your footage, and the evidence that you've got can you give us information on how they can get hold of that. Chiba Cam, but he's actually running yet. But the moment everything's on my Facebook page, which is Richard Lenny. L E, W E an engine. She forages and brackets. And you said that you haven't put it in a book or anything you're in books, but you haven't written a book. Horizon excuse. The pun. Think about doing it soon. But I'm gonna try and co some more stuff. I you know, get down stabbing again. And then we'll see, you know, from that happens hyphen get footage. You know, I wanna get a lot more footage. Really? I mean I know look now what use to look for it. So it's just a question of been lucky Madine, you know. Question before we go. If oversee everything that you'll see in is real and true and is actually happening. What do you think the intelligence behind these anomalies what you'd think agendas, and I appreciate this is your opinion, rather than fact this. What I think, and I've talked to that, you just don't feel the same way. I did when he was alive. You know, a lot of them say the same, we think that these fares are up in disguise, these drones, these UFO's the beams coming down. You know, it all links to the in some way or another, and they seem to be concerned about it, because they watch walls, but they don't interfere but they will in fair if it's anything to do nuclear, another story, but, you know, we're gonna damage the plant in any way, then they wouldn't fear otherwise they'll just step back and observe we think will they do that, like all guardians, and then making sure that we didn't mess up planet too much when not destroying it and they keep taking wars, and they keep taking soil. He taken Barry's food, animals human. I don't use. Well, they take all these things occa- do experiments. They do stop. It wanna make sure that we're not messing up planet that much. I pretty much on the hundred percent on. Because it will links to it. You know, otherwise why would they do it? Why would they be foraging over they'd be doing this? If it wasn't for about reason, maybe. Destroy it so then they can come and take it. Yeah. I really did think dies part of, I'm not saying that's the whole thing. But I'm saying that is a big chunk bass why they're doing what they're doing. And that's why the hiding a lot of the time so they can get on and do it. You know, get on do the job pay the stuff do whatever if they do with it. And then whatever they do off to that because it just seemed to keep doing overtime and the rest of the time they just flying around. And you know sharing themselves known again. We think they do pope Asli as well. So that we do see them and then the rest of the time they hide, and then they carry on and do that work. And the reason for this apart from the, they're making sure that no mention the planet, you know, that must be an agenda yesterday. But what it is like, Hans, because they may whatever enough told you today on this show everything. I've told you on the show is a hundred percent. True, and I have seen it have made any of it out is definitely happening is definitely out there. And you too can see or some event if you. To get your quick -ment right vision or quoted your day during the night, you can see them. Model of night vision goggles. You might want to mention, you know, good set toget- for anyone who's interested in looking. Storrow with anyway. A good set set. You back like I said, between four and six hundred pounds. If you go secondhand for hundred and a good makers posts. Are they do generation one plus which is equivalent to generation to really only is in Knighton sagoes generation one two by far was sick? Now it used to be three and they went for, and I think it gives at five or six now. And what means is the highest the gen them the move sensitive. They are so that moonlight him you can see out further. You see more dito, and obviously, you can see what I was looking better and clearer. But then there's a price to pay that because the higher you go. The go better upticks. Everything's move quality quantity quality all the way up, basically paying for that, so up to generation free, which is a two plus I how you can go here in UK. I've done them why but generations, free food or legal in UK, homeboy them. And he conned also buy them from merica. Get into this country. They always allow it. So I'd say to begin with go for a one, plus we shouldn't credit into generation too. So it's good. Quality ceelo with. I, I know because I have anyone say about moving about four or five hundred pounds, maybe six, if you buy Brian yin, and I'll give you a case by tree, which takes a little like camera battery or full pen light and I lost, you six hours with the infrared on knowing hours without him. Fred on and like you find a CD screen made by Sony. Good quality, and you can change from black and white color to green red green better because it's better on the is which is why they're always green and just trying to sky and just wait best time to go out though. He's Oeste eleven o'clock at night before that you'll see sunlight everywhere. So after by eleven o'clock the sun's going around so far around the other started yet where you found lights anymore. And then if you see stuff with moving is usually. Something else. So that McLaughlin, which I find the best time for activity believe in its three in the morning. But I see it if you dedicate, and you to stay up all night we had done in the past, but I'm too old to do that now. People do it. Thank you very much, really appreciate your time with us today. And certainly that's going to give people a really good stop, if they're looking to get into this type of thing as well, giving them that information on the optics that you've just mentioned we could've spent all night with you token vase. There's just so many different angles that we can go down and look out. We didn't even touch on the description of these entities. Nina's seen if we get to insert after you've been to anita's again, if you do get to go that when you come back and tell us all about it. Absolutely. I'm hoping to get done. So what actually don't stealing? Or now he's our time. We're gonna take our equipment. I think we're going to be doing it forty towards into June beginning July. So wouldn't it be done it, and we got more information and hoping we'll footage than by means we can do to if you won't? Richard many, thanks again for your time. Thank you. Well, I think that was one of my favorite podcast foods. Really annoy made the cripple, the star of really open your eyes. But if we did have the ability to see some of these things above us that repair going on with just spending six hundred quid, it would be worth it, wouldn't it? Well, yeah, but, but there has to be so much happening in the military and, and all that, if an ordinary person by quip -ment, and be able to look up there and see it. They have no comment on the whole thing. Like the military never goes. Oh, no. That's just this year. It's just that I mean, it's really strange, if think about it, it's bizarre to think that there hasn't been, you know, a really big sort of surge of people who've seen it. Well, maybe that will be maybe people listen to our show. And I haven't seen it for myself and you haven't seen it for yourself. I don't think the Richard Lenny's Eliah how he's coming on here and kind of Japan people, but at the same time from to protect. Ourselves. We haven't seen it yet. So if you want to go out and spend six hundred on the equipment, then not up to you, you obviously take an chance of putting your faith in someone else, but I have spoken to Richard since during the recording on Macci going to see if we can go along and news. His another look uncertain, if I see stuff that is unexplained then. Yeah. I'll show you. Well, no, I think I will be will be invested in pay to be fair right in the middle of the night. If you've got the knock years that people probably look into another people's windows, not up at the sky. So who knows right? Mean Monday, north Nassar's more about you than. I just did mitt things other people may not necessarily admit what we call look bedroom and what we can Riffa. Well, yeah. I don't have any knock yars just saying, but, you know, we go up here upstairs module. Where are they draw where you've got the move? You know. Oh, they, we do not have you have them in your but, you know, so listen you have made it perfectly clear that is mine is also yours now. No, I said, what's mine is yours. Well, but my razor technology that your mind. My razors old, it doesn't have the same technology. I'll go weed whacker in the fridge. Three. We walk in. I'm not thank you very much for listening. Don't forget, you can follow us a normal, normal places on Facebook on Twitter on Instagram. You can follow on our website, WWW. Don't we want you unfold UK, and you can get in touch with us via mail act? We'd wacky wonderful Dacuda UK until next week. Look to the sky us and try and find stuff that as weird wacky and wonderful.

UFO Croft Facebook UK researcher America Richard Glenn Nina John John Bristol Monmouth Washington Nick pope Lee Richard lenny Tripos super Maria
Iridium's Pivotal Role In Our Past And ... Maybe Our Future?

Short Wave

12:37 min | 1 year ago

Iridium's Pivotal Role In Our Past And ... Maybe Our Future?

"You're listening to shortwave from NPR. Mattie Safai here. It's the One hundred fiftieth anniversary of the periodic table table of elements and we have been celebrating by highlighting some of our favorite elements. We did helium. We did aluminum and now Richard Harris longtime NPR. Science correspondent is going to tell us about his favorite dip iridium medium. I Know Ira on the periodic table. Atomic number seventy seven. It's a metal and that's everything you need to know. I guess that's it now. Wait wait wait wait. I have a few others. I should tell you first of all that. Iridium is not only one of the rarest elements on the Earth's crust. It gives us an important clue about solving a long standing mystery. One of my favorites about dinosaurs loved dinosaurs. What's Your Insulin Jurassic Park? Good Movie One of my favorites mine too. And I'm still waiting for the Sequel Cretaceous just park. Because that's when the big old dinosaurs went extinct at the end of the Cretaceous right and iridium has provided a surprising clue about how that went down. Komo extinction clue. Yes and Iridium doesn't just tell us about mass extinction. It might just possibly play a role in preventing another potential global catastrophe. Castrophe when we are suffering today okay. That's a little darker than I expected to go today but okay here we go. Let's go well darker than extinction of dinosaurs so today the show look at Aradio dinosaurs extinction. Humanity's survival and more. What else could you want from an Kosovo Richard Richard? We're talking about iridium as show. What does this element tell us about dinosaurs? and how they went extinct. We're going to go back. Tens of millions of years ago to start. Yeah well we start and say like nineteen eighty. That's what I said Richard. I said one thousand nine hundred nineteen eighty okay. Well that's actually. When an academic paper gets published by a group led by a father and son team from the a University of California at Berkeley Louis Alvarez the father of physicist and by the way Nobel Prize winner and his son Walter Alvarez? WHO's a geologist and they? We're interested in a specific period of time. In Earth's history it was a transition between two geologic periods the Cretaceous period and the Paleocene good ones too good period. Yeah so dinosaurs still roamed the earth during the Cretaceous period. But after that you don't find any of these dino bones except in our current dinosaurs birds. You're you know what I mean. I I do know what you mean. Yeah thinking of dinosaurs. Birds Birds Dinosaurs. Same thing it's sad. It's true so at any rate but the Alvarez's weren't actually trying to answer that big. Why did the dinosaurs go extinct? Mystery that point Walter and Louis Alvarez. We're trying to answer. Just one part of that riddle which is how quickly that transition between the two periods took place so walter trump off to Italy where there are rock outcrops that were laid down his sediment back at the time of that transition. Okay seems like a good idea. Why look at those rocks knocks well to get the back story? I talked to another Berkeley scientists. My name is Paul Renae. And I'm the director of the Berkeley Ju- Chronology Center any said the secret to figuring Out How fast. That transition happened involved measuring dust from outer space. That's constantly raining down on earth. Tiny amounts Louis Alvarez Walter's father her biggest physicist thought. Well you know we can determine that we can. We can make some reasonable assumptions about how much dust is coming in from from extraterrestrial sources. Okay extraterrestrial we're talking stuff from outside Earth or the atmosphere in Richard. Can I just say the fact that somebody thought thought about measuring cosmic dust to figure out the passage of time sixty million years ago is objectively awesome. It is and when you think about the dust coming from asteroids colliding with each other. It's even cooler and they were looking for particular stuff and In particular if we look at an element. That's rare on on earth but common in meteors in an element. That's rare on earth but common in asteroids Guess what we're talking about Matty I'm going to take out style and I'm GonNa say radium. Guess Excellent guests. Thank you are we. But what's the role of the dust here right well. Louis was operating unreasonable unreasonable assumption. which is that? This dust from meteors rains down on the earth. More or less constant rate. It's dust of course enriched with iridium. So I figured if they could measure is your how much iridium had built up in. This transitional layer. They would be able to tell. How long taken to accumulate? So I'm thinking sort of figuring out how much snow fell over a period of the time. If you know the rate at falls and how much is on the ground except this is tens of millions of years ago Roger Dodger tens of millions of years ago and the iridium doesn't Milton the sunlight so it sticks sticks around you can still see at sixty five or sixty six years later so so it didn't rate when they ran those calculations with the Alvarez's found was stunning. The results were so so extreme. That just just a the passage of a long time would not really explain this. It was many times greater than the amount amount of radium in this layer than expected just from this gradual accumulation so the conclusion they drew was that there had been some huge pulse of extraterrestrial Oriole's Joe Matter and the obvious conclusion that they quickly came to was that it was a large impact a large impact. We're talking to you asteroid did we are an asteroid They think the asteroid smashes into the earth destroying so much of life on earth and throwing up an enormous muscle mass of dust into the atmosphere. The dust itself caused mass extinctions but it also had iridium in it and it spread around the Earth so they realized this collision is a big one and and the conditions that resulted you know reasonably enough they thought they theorized killed off. These won't bring dinosaurs. You know what you're nobody ever thinks about that other life. I feel like it's always dinosaurs. Dinosaurs dinosaurs. I know you don't get little plastic models of marine for him. And if we're talking to you as I mentioned in this paper was published back in one thousand nine hundred eighty and back then. A catastrophic end seemed to mini scientists pretty far fetched because evolution takes place over millions of years so so a lot of scientists were expecting to see gradual changes. and and Paul Rennie says when the Alvarez has proposed this meteor theory created quite a stir in the community it did. Yeah I mean. It was originally not widely accepted but acceptance sort of came in waves and the biggest confirmation team win in the early nineties. There was the discovery of the crater on the northern coast of the Yucatan Peninsula. A study published in. Today's issue of Science magazine appears to add weight to a theory that a giant media or struck the earth. Sixty five million years ago and what is now Mexico many scientists. This is the Intro to my story that aired in NPR back in Nineteen ninety-two. Some scientists. See this as evidence that helps prove their theory that the dinosaurs were wiped out by a giant asteroid or comet but as NPR NPR science correspondent Richard Harris reports the theories baby Richard Harris Science reporter even covering this story for a bit. I have indeed actually packs into the early nineteen eighties but that no dinosaur drug please and a really big asteroid could scatter iridium dust. Globally the question was. Where's the crater that a huge asteroid like that would make take a look and listen to all that? Join Your Voice you know I know well what what can be more fun than dead dinosaurs. Really Okay So. This study found the point of impact for the giant asteroid. Yes it was a crater one hundred ten miles across called Jiffy Lube and it was created by this asteroid that had a tremendous amount of explosive power. As you can. Well imagine sure so. When these geologist tested the age of the materials from the crater it turned out to date very closely to the mass extinction by the way? Dating methods. have been recalibrated calibrated since that paper. So scientists now say that catastrophe happened. Sixty six million years ago. Not Sixty five million. What's a million years among friends? Yeah yeah yeah absolutely so Joe. Yeah but the point is of course the impact and the dinosaurs demise lineup perfectly and for that nineteen ninety-two story. I talked to Carl Swisher at the Institute of Human Origins which at the time was in Berkeley Berkeley Berkeley Berkeley no even much larger when we went across the street to the UC. Berkeley and told Walter Alvarez the ages we're getting I think he was quite excited because he spent What the last Ten fifteen years trying to find a crater of each throughout the World Team Alvarez for the win absolutely yes for the most part. There's a lot of evidence but there will always be some skeptics in the scientific community. And you know it's also important maybe to mention that at the same time about the same time there was a whole lot of volcanic activity we also on the earth. So there's always people thinking one two punch. Maybe you're saying definitely came. But was it the absolute Khuda Gra for all these dinosaurs. That's still that's still debated. Yeah astroid touch volcanoes low bit of mix maybe so okay Richard Radium helped us figure out our dinosaur extinction mystery. You mentioned earlier that it could also help us potentially prevent the next global catastrophe. We're not talking another asteroid here. No we have Bruce Willis For Asteroids if you remember the action movie Armageddon No no no actually. We're talking about climate change climate change. How does a radium help? Well what we really need to do to. Combat climate change is to have clean fuel. That's cheaper than fossil fuels. If we could get such a thing in other words would quickly switch to the cheaper fuel and we'd stop dumping all that carbon dioxide said in the atmosphere. I don't know about quickly but sure. That's the dream. Richard Yeah Fair enough. So what's the link between clean fuels radium. Well we really liked to capture energy. She from sunlight and turn that into liquid fuels now. Plants figured this out long before the dinosaurs were even around. Tho- sent this says that's right and the first step in this process is to split a water molecule. And the problem is this is not so easy to do in the lab what chemist need is a catalyst so the chemicals that that speed up chemical reactions out there getting stuff done. You got it and I'm guessing you can see where I'm going with this. A radium is a good catalyst. It is a great catalyst for this purpose and imagine turning sunlight into hydrogen fuel or liquid fuel. You could put into an airplane. Of course there's one eighty problem with the scenario. Iridium you will recall. Aw is one of the rarest elements on Earth's crust because of his scarcity's one of the most expensive metals as well. So he does complicate our Laura Research so is the Mother Nature through that us. That's Guanghui Wing. He's a chemistry professor at Boston College. And he's trying to develop an iridium catalyst to make fuel out of sunlight and he's trying to get around this issue of how little of it. We have our ideas that we wanted to utilize this catheters to his maximum. That is we wanted Khimik every atom conce and since iridium is so rare he wants to make sure every single atom in a catalyst is actually at work speeding up reactions even so oh it's probably a stretch to think about building industry around iridium right so he and his colleagues are also hoping that once they understand how iridium does this magic they can find something else that will work as a catalyst as well or nearly as well and ideally something. That's abundant on the earth. So iridium or something like it could potentially help save the day. That's Richard. You could cover it for another twenty five years. Well I will probably be sitting on my couch but I hope I will be listening to you. Episode Six thousand two hundred and twelve. Oh On shortwave. If I know you the math and right on that math is pretty close. I took twelve days off per year. Figured out WHO. It wasn't a random number. This episode was produced by Rebecca Ramirez edited. Veit lay shout out to Daniel Shchukin and Stacey Abbott for their engineering help. The facts of this episode were checked by Emily. Quam this has been shortwave from NPR. See You tomorrow. Primer having trouble with this sentence senator. Who wrote this is where I yelled? Who wrote I know? It's fine this way I probably wrote. I probably wrote it five hundred fire. You are a blooper. You are a human blooper. I didn't mean that I mean that was hard.

Iridium NPR Louis Alvarez Walter Alvarez Louis Alvarez Walter Richard Harris Berkeley Richard Richard geologist Richard Yeah Berkeley Berkeley Berkeley Ber Sequel Cretaceous Joe Matter physicist Mattie Safai walter trump Richard Radium helium Ira Cretaceous
Weekly Roundup: May 29th, 2020

NPR Politics Podcast

26:00 min | 1 year ago

Weekly Roundup: May 29th, 2020

"Hey there it's the NPR politics podcasts. And it's three thirteen pm on Friday. May Twenty ninth. I'm Susan Davis. I cover congress. I'm Scott detro- I'm now back to covering the campaign and I'm Sharon. I covered the White House I just WANNA give a heads up to our listeners. Before we get started that this week's roundup is going to be a bit of a tough listen for a lot of people because the news has been pretty heavy this week This week the United States passed a sad milestone in the coronavirus pandemic more than one hundred thousand people and counting died from covid nineteen and a Minneapolis. A black man named George. Floyd died Monday after a white police officer held them down on the ground and knelt on his neck today that officer was charged with third degree murder and manslaughter. In protests have erupted all across the country yesterday on this podcast we talked about how president trump's initial reaction seemed different. He called the death sad. He was supportive of a swift review by the Justice Department but Aisha he seemed to manage to undo all of that with a single tweet. Yeah well he sent these tweets. It was about one in the morning eastern time There was a a lot of unrest last night. and trump starts tweeting. That he can't stand back and watch this happen to a great American city And then he used the words. These thugs are dishonoring. The memory of George. Floyd and I won't let that happen. He goes on to say that He talked to the governor in told the governor that the military is with him all the way and seemed to say that the federal government would assume control And then he used this phrase when the looting starts the shooting starts In that tweet It got twitter. Actually put a warning on that tweet for the first time in. Hit The tweet saying that. It was glorifying. Violence Violated the terms of twitter right and violated the terms of twitter and mean that tweet has obviously kind of reverberated all day long and the president did try to walk this tweet back today this afternoon. Which is something very rarely does saying looting leads to shooting and that's why man was shot and killed in Minneapolis on Wednesday night. Saying that he wasn't advocating for for the National Guard or authorities to respond with shooting. That's being met with a lot of skepticism and a lot of people are pointing out that looting leads to shooting is a phrase with specific historic connotations when it comes to police violence as you said with that phrase deluding starts to shooting stars. That was first by this. Miami police chief in the nineteen sixties and just to reiterate what that police chief was talking about was basically saying that these poor black neighborhoods of the police the threat a police violence was keeping them from kind of engaging in writing or anything like that. So basically what that phrase that trump was using is talking about the very policies that the people in. Minneapolis are protesting against the brutality. That people are protesting against is what that phrase hearkens back to and these tweets the ones that the president has done in the past. And I think that this one does too. Is it really strikes? A racial cord and there's been a fierce response to it certainly from Democrats many people calling it racist and I would say that. I think that there's so many different sides to this president but when he does things like this and he's done it in the past. This is what Republican strategists will tell me is what they view is the worst trump there is just no upside to this tone coming from the president or anything that looks like. It's fueling racial tensions because it's just it just turns voters away in such a profound way and I think if you recall you know looking back to what happened at the racist violence in Charlottesville and how the president responded and he came under a lot of fire even among Republicans for that response is there is just a real visceral rejection from a lot of voters for anything that even seems slightly sympathetic to any kind of racist sentiment from a president and that for almost all of last year was the central focus of former vice president. Joe Biden's campaign and message repeatedly going back to what the president said after Charlottesville and working it into every main point he made about the type of president he would be as opposed to trump so Scott Biden also weighed in today. He gave a livestream address from his home in Delaware. What did he say right off the Bat? He said that he had been in touch with George Floyd's family that he had spoken to them earlier today and that he was grieving with them and then Biden went onto to put this this killing into a much broader frame and to me it sounded like he was using a lot of the language in the context that that activist group like black lives matter have been using for the last few years to talk about police violence saying that this is part of a four hundred year cycle of violence in the United States that needed to be addressed. You know is a list that dates back more than four hundred years. Black men black women black children. The original sin of this country still stains our nation today and sometimes we managed to overlook it. We just push forward with a thousand other task in our daily life. But it's always there and weeks like this. We see plainly that were country with an open wound. None of us can turn away. None of us can be silent. Not as can any longer. Can we hear the words? I can't breathe and Biden. Made a point to to name other people who have been killed by a police while in custody including Eric Garner and the New York City Man. Killed in twenty fourteen in a chokehold saying I can't breathe and and Biden said that that one of the painful things about Floyd's death was was how mu- how many parallels to that incident as well and President Trump today and his Sarah Gates and through his campaign. They keep talking about floyd in his memory and his family and wanting justice for him and they're they're leaning into very heavily This individual story and wanting justice for Floyd. What you aren't hearing is kind of the larger context of that. This is a bigger issue in this country. And a broader issue about police brutality in general but a very heavy focus on this individual story and we kinda talked about a bit about that on the pot yesterday now. One thing I'd be curious to see is what kind of response from a policy perspective that this might provoke because trump's tweet aside the really has been across the political spectrum sort of one voice on this on on what happened with George Floyd that it was wrong that requires justice and it seems like it's provoking conversation about racial justice. And I think the question goes to anyone running for office right now. What do you want to do about it? And I'll be curious to see. If trump the president and Joe Biden. The candidate have new ideas to put out there because it clearly now feels like it's something that's more on voters minds than it was a month ago and this and that's a good point because this isn't just a hard thing for trump to to deal with engage with. I covered the last year of the Obama Presidency. And he was dealing you know with all of the shootings that happened at that point the police shootings and he faced criticism from all sides for the way that he did it in the and there were many who felt like he did not do enough that he did not act strongly enough. And so this is. It's really not a Republican or Democrat issue. This is something that all presidents have to face and there's a real disconnect at points where people feel like politicians on both sides of the aisle have not addressed this all right. Well we're going to take a quick break and when we get back we'll talk about the pandemic and the state of the Presidential Race. This message comes from. Npr SPONSOR STORY POINT WINES MAKER OF STORY POINT. A bold new wind brand with a rich layered taste profile. Enjoy story point wine while you connect with those you love either at home or at a virtual happy hour. Raise a glass and share a story story. Point believes that the stories we share can bring joy even in trying times visit story point. Vineyards DOT com slash politics to purchase shipping is included in your online order so consider shipping a bottle to a friend to. How do we reinvent ourselves? And what's the secret to living longer? I'm Rhody each week on. Npr's Ted Radio Hour. We go on a journey with Ted speakers to seek a deeper understanding of the world and to figure out new ways to think and create. Listen now and we're back and we're joined by friend of the POD. Npr science correspondent. Richard Harris. Hey Richard who sue? Thanks for coming on this week. The United States reached a new milestone in the pandemic more than one hundred thousand. People have died Richard. Can you put this number into context for us? Sure think of it. This way. The leading preventable cause of death in this country is smoking. And over the past three months when the coronavirus killed one hundred thousand Americans. Tobacco claimed an estimated one hundred thousand lives to. That's far more people than who died in car accidents or drug overdoses during that period and the viruses now killed more. Americans knows who died in combat since the Korean War who who's been most impacted by this virus we hear so much about African Americans and Latinos and others being disproportionately affected. Do we know richer like a. Who's been most impacted? Unfortunately those racial numbers have not been gathered very well so we can't really give you definitive number but I can't say a few things about this first of all. Most of the deaths are among people over the age of sixty five. Some of those people lived in apartments with multi generational families or they lived in nursing homes or they were in assisted living. They are more likely to be Brown and black as you said and some of the deaths are among people who have jobs that have put them at risk because they are helping others think about the nurses who are fighting the epidemic in under equipped hospitals lacking good personal protection equipment etc or AIDS nursing homes. They were also struck. Are being struck very hard by this as well. So this isn't simply luck of the draw who dies and I must say that point sometimes gets lost on people who say we should just tough it out and opened up the country again geographically though it also seems to me I think when I think of the pandemic I think of New York City that seems like it was really concentrated in certain hot spots that account for most of those deaths right well many of those deaths clearly it flared up most aggressively in the New York City area. There are some studies suggesting that it arrived actually by way of Europe and simmered unnoticed since late January or maybe early February. The city actually came quite close to having its health system collapse but it managed to hold things together barely but you know the disease also has big numbers in Chicago and Detroit and it still percolating in the Washington DC area. There'd been more than two thousand deaths within a short drive of the White House and the Capitol for example it's also increasingly hitting rural America including largely immigrant workers who work in the meat processing plants in the Mid West and native Americans have been hit very hard by this in some areas. You know there was a church in Rural Arkansas. That had an outbreak of sixty one cases. So this is not just a big city problem Richard. Can you put some context around one hundred thousand people dead because in the beginning there had been estimates that it could have been more than double that so could it be seen as a success that the number wasn't as high as we feared it could be or is it a failure that it's still so many? I would say it's a failure because actually the United States could have done a lot better if the government had been fully prepared for this The numbers could have been substantially lower. There was a study out quite recently. That suggested that even a couple of weeks difference in our response in instituting social distancing etcetera could have made a very market difference. And if you look around the world Many many other countries have had far more success than the United States has had in dealing with this but Richard. The pandemic certainly is not over. We've hit the sad milestone but it rolls on I know many states are reopening. Life is sort of maybe getting back to a little bit of normal. I know here in D. C. The stay at home orders lifting today. What are the next sort of months? Look like from a public health perspective right. Well it is of course a crystal ball but public health experts in the U. K. Remember initially said that more than two million Americans could die if we didn't take any steps to control it. The White House has gravitated toward another estimate which showed one hundred twenty thousand Americans would die of states. Rapidly carefully kept to social distancing policies and we have not hit that figure yet but it seems we are headed in that direction as social distancing eases up that modeled at the White House really likes now suggests that the US will have least one hundred and fifteen thousand deaths but possibly more than one hundred and seventy thousand deaths. And that's just by the end of July things don't end at that point remembered. The National Strategy is to leave a lot of decision making to individual states but unlike other countries including South Korea and New Zealand. The goal here is not to eradicate the disease but to keep it simmering along levels. That won't be overwhelming for however long it takes to come up with a vaccine in Richard. Just ask very obvious question. I feel like there's sometimes magical thinking all of us on an individual level that you know as things start open back up. The risk is lower. I mean the corona virus is just as infectious and dangerous as it was in the beginning of Art. Absolutely nothing has changed nor will it change for a very long period of time right. I guess the Big Wild Card here is that people are not going to rush back into offices and clearly the areas where it's most likely to be spread or indoor areas summertime. People SPEND MORE TIME OUTDOORS. The risk of spreading it is lower as and if people are you know maybe going out to outdoor cafes etc etc there will still be some spread there but it but if you avoiding large gatherings and if if offices are not calling large numbers of people back into cram into open office spaces. I think that that will help. It's also happening in the middle of a presidential year. And I'm not sure how we can separate sort of the pandemic from the politics in this moment especially because presidents tend to be judged on how they handle crises in the president is not only in the middle still of handling this crisis but he's also running for reelection and I wondering shows we sort of come at this milestone. How does the country think President Trump has handled this. Well when you look at a lot of the polls that are out You see that. He's not getting high marks for his handling of the coronavirus. In fact at this point other than like kind of brief point. I'm he's been getting like the majority of the country has given him low marks President Trump's overall approval rating is still pretty much stuck. In this kind of band you know in the forties or so percentage but there has definitely been an especially even looking at like among older voters. Were very important. They have not been happy with the way that he handled the coronavirus. And that's really different from because most governors in the country have gotten Really high approval ratings for the way. They've handled the virus. Yeah and I know that. A lot of Democrats have been particularly focused on these trend. Lines of older Americans turning against the president on this if you look at the coalition that president trump put together in two thousand sixteen older voters especially older white. Voters were a key part of that demographic and now you've seen several national polls and polls in key states like Michigan and Pennsylvania showing that voters over sixty five are now leaning towards Joe Biden Or leading toward trump by a much smaller margin. If that were the case in November. You'd make it pretty much impossible for president trump to win a second term. So that's just one of many trend lines that Democrats are looking at and feeling like they didn't think he was a particularly popular president to begin with but they feel like he is especially vulnerable given the way his administration has handled this Scott. I was looking through battleground state polling this morning and as of today Biden is leading in every battleground state except for North Carolina where they're essentially tied and I wonder if it's fair to say that Biden has managed to take the lead in this race without really ever leaving his basement. He's he's left his home once since mid March and that was on Memorial Day to plant a wreath at a at a brief ceremony. And Yeah I the. The Biden campaign has felt very good about this something that Joe Biden repeatedly says when he's criticized for not leaving his basement is first of all he's following the recommendations of Delaware's governor of stay at home order which is going to lift in the coming days but hasn't yet and he points out look every time the president keeps talking. His numbers go down which is a little bit of an exaggeration. But Not Really. If you look at the trend line of of not just president trump's approval rating but you know how voters think he's handling this crisis and also trend lines like. Do you trust the Information. The president provides that number is pretty low. So I I think a lot of times. During the primary Joe Biden was criticized for framing his campaign around this idea like a return to normalcy and and bringing back the The Obama Administration's Coalition and policies. A lot of Democrats said. You need to do better than that. You can't just talk about the past well right now. When one hundred thousand people have died when unemployment is that the highest level since the Great Depression and when many of us cannot leave our house without mass a return to normalcy is a pretty good selling point and the Biden campaign has been pretty content to let the trump administration do its thing and to Put out statements and recorded videos and rare interviews criticizing list policies? All Right Richard. Thank you so much for joining us. I really look forward to the day that we can have you on the podcast with some good news about the coronavirus. Well thank you. I look forward to that too. All right we're GONNA take a quick break and when we get back we're going to talk about the things from the week that brought us a little joy a little after support for NPR and the following message. Come from duck duck go. Do you want the same internet? But more privacy duck duck go can help. They helped millions. People like you get privacy online without any tradeoffs with one download. You can search and browse privately. Avoiding Trackers Duck Duck. Go privacy simplified. The news has been hard to escape so take a deep breath and join us for. Npr's all songs considered it's more than a music discovery podcast. It's relief with new episodes every Tuesday and Friday as we share the week's best new albums and lots of music. Palm the nerves here. All songs considered wherever you get podcasts. And we're back and it's time for can't let it go the part of the pod where we talk about the thing. We can't let go this week. Politics or otherwise Scott Detro- looking at you like Oh this week so I think we should acknowledge that. This was a super depressing podcast. I mean very weighty serious topics and there's been a lot that's been pretty down over the last few months I feel like I've been very vocal about that both on the podcast and on social media. But I feel like one thing that has made me happy. And I've thought a lot about in mid appreciative of is the way that things have kind of like slowed down and kind of focused down to where you live and and it's just like a lot slower to me. It feels like when I was like a kid almost in terms of like the pace of the day which hasn't been the case for so long so like one example of that that I personally cannot let go in my life right now is that we got one of those little tykes basketball hoops for my son to. Yeah now he is not that into it he's like dunk the ball a few times. I keep trying. He's like okay. Whatever but my wife and I are obsessed with it new now play force every single night after he goes to bed on this like two and a half foot hoop and it brings me so much joy and this is not something I would be doing in any world other than right now. What can't you like. Oh so I I agree with Scott. It's been quite a week and quite a few couple months. I'm but one thing that I can't let go of in. This is really from last week but I wasn't on the pot on Friday last week so I'm GonNa use it anyway is everyone was doing these. Commencement addresses right. Yeah and so you had Obama. You know all these people doing them but then the best one that I saw was from Cookie Monster Goal Class of twenty twenty. He gave a cookie mints. Met for something that and you know. Twenty twenty has literally. You can make us to cookies to make twenty twenty the year twenty twenty but he talked about how you know it has been kind of a crummy time but but how you know we can all be smart cookies and things like that you graduates have all the ingredients for an amazing u-turn just like the ingredients is in call cloud very uplifting so. I really like. I recommend everybody at the very long week. If you need a pick me up go look at. Cookie Monster's commencement. Address is only three minutes and it's full of light and love. I have been watching a lot of sesame street of late as I imagine you guys have to because we all have little kids at home and I will say unabashedly cookie monster my favorite. He's number one. He is between him and Oscar. The grouch is just so like over it all like I always have related and just being negative in crummy when everyone else's so happy but cookie monster like he's almost like the preacher like he has a message every time you have to stop and listen to cookie monster also elmo kind of winding narcissists great. Well this is a perfect segue into what I can't let go because I think all of our joys this week involve our kids and mine is definitely connected. And I'm glad that I'm in the pod with you guys because my click connects to an earlier. Click do you remember last year? I think it was April of last year. We did a live show in Philly together and at that live show. The thing I couldn't let go was Lizzo I had just discovered Lizzo and I was like this is going to be my music of the summer. I don't want to take credit for the fact that lives became really big and we're I wasn't. I do that because I hadn't started listening to her yet. And so yes you. You were a little ahead of the curve for the politics team for the politics team. Certainly but so I have you know I have. My daughter is a little bit younger than Scots. And she loves music and she loves listening to music and we're always looking for new music to find and she was like to listen to music is she's going to bed the other night and I'm sure you guys know what kids BOP is right. Yes yay for anyone listeners. That don't know Bob is like. They do like sanitized versions of Pop Songs. So you can listen to pop songs with your kids and it takes all the bad parts so. I opened up the kids pop album and they had truth hurts as one of their songs and I was like. How does this possible? They have made this a kid friendly saw and they managed to do it and I just a good. Dna turns out percents that kid so I started playing and I started cracking up and my daughter now loves this song but I think it's partly because she saw how much of a reaction I had to it and couldn't get enough of it and so now when it plays she sort of like BOPs her head BOPs or hips out and dances Lizzo and brings me joy every single time. That's great because she's one hundred percent that kid. Yeah she has a hundred percent that kid for sure and that'll be fun like however many years when she's like. Oh that's the lyric all right so we've also been asking our listeners for what they can't let go of. None of us have heard this one yet. So I'm pretty excited to hear what it is pure politics. This is Janaka from Austin Texas. And the thing. I can't let go of chickens during the quarantine. I got three chickens and I've just been trying to socialize them and get them used to people and in the process of learned so much about chicken personalities and what. It's like to be a chicken. Yesterday I had a chicken sleeping on my lap which was really really sleet allow. I love that I have never thought of a chicken is being a cuddly. Now you know and then that's my nightmare right. I don't like the birds and I don't like the honestly Yes yes absolutely. I'm afraid and I have a special fear of chickens like live chickens so I'm with you. Yeah a thought of chickens in my house like is terrified really scary like not just roosters especially she didn't say roosters but chickens like they look very scary and so. I don't know why you want to get close to them but I'm very happy for the listener is there's a lot of people getting pets. During the pandemic lot of people have gotten dogs and cats. I've kind of respect that. She went chicken miles parks and I have gotten into bird watching bird feeders but a chicken like I feel like that's just like thirty times the commitment and I'm impressed all right. Well that is a wrap for us for today. Our executive producer is surely Henry. Our Editors Matori and Eric mcdaniel. Our producer is Barton. Gird would our production assistant is Khloe. Winer thinks Alexi piddle Alina More Dana Farrington and Brandon Carter? Susan Davis Congress. I'm Sharon I covered the White House and I'm Scott Tetreault. I cover the campaign and thank you for listening to the NPR politics podcast.

president President Trump Npr Scott Biden United States Democrats George Floyd White House POD Joe Biden Minneapolis Richard Harris New York City Scott detro Obama twitter Delaware Justice Department National Guard federal government
Cyber Security

The Ron Burgundy Podcast

30:42 min | 1 year ago

Cyber Security

"The ron burgundy podcast is a production of iheartradio podcast network and funnier die a special thanks to all three of our sponsors fair cores light and n._b._c. We let me tell you about this. Crazy new app called fair f. a. I r. It's a brand new way to get a car all on your phone with the flexibility to turn it in anytime the boring stuff like roadside assistance limited warranty and routine maintenance is covered. You just load up the app. Pick the car. You want to drive and then blam. Oh it's yours for as long because you want it. I mean you got a qualifying pay for it. They're not just giving away cars. There's no such thing as a free lunch my friend but there is such a thing as a fair lunch and that's a tagline. I totally just came up with for fair f. a. i r. I should really judge them some extra for coming out with such an awesome tagline but i'll go ahead and pass the savings onto not you who's that man jogging in my uh <music> gandhi hello. This is ron burgundy and you guessed it welcome to the ron on burgundy podcast. I am of course joined by carolina carolina. How are you. I'm good actually think yeah great. You look very pretty today. I'm just go to say what's really yes. Literally never said anything complimentary about high luck. I got eighteen hours of sleep last night so feel very around refreshed. Today's show is is quite fascinating. We are going to be talking about the internet and <hes> the internet for those of you who don't know was originally created by the u._s. Military as a way for members of our armed forces to trade baking recipes with each other <hes> um interesting since that first computer was connected to another computer by alexander graham bell all the way back in two thousand four the internet has no doubt out revolutionized the way our world works today and changed our daily lives. I like to call the internet the information superhighway anyway. That's a phrase. I invented myself last night. As i was preparing research this podcast i had to do all the research myself because carolina didn't facts and he notes to me like i asked her to. I there are there are so many things wrong with what you just said. There's so many factual title errors. I just and i i did fax you the notes for today's show. You did yeah oh well. Maybe i was fax paper run. You really need to stop using that old fax machine that takes the curly paper that rolls up the ink. It's all over your fingers. I've offered numerous times to get you something. More modern day broke doc. Don't fix it but that's the point is. It's very broken. Well whatever the point is. I think we can all agree on one thing. The internet is here to stay right sure yeah. Well not going anywhere however it's never been more dangerous. I don't like to contribute to the culture of fear but the internet is truly terrifying right now. Look at your children. They aren't safe the elderly or at it constant risk. If you're going to use the internet you must take extreme caution and that's why i'm so glad to have our guest today. Eh his name is richard greenberg and he's what's referred to as a cybersecurity expert so he knows all all the ins and outs of the mkx uriel intranet scott to be fascinating. It doesn't have to sound so spooky. Crack open his skull figure out what's swimming around and they're sure right. Yeah i'll be basic interview correct that thing open with a ball ping hammer and pull out all the deep. Come on you know but i mean metaphorically sure yeah. It just sounds okay on the other side of this wall is is richard greenberg. It's yeah he's waiting to just come. Cybersecurity experts make it sound more warm long who who who professional man he knows it all. We'll be right back with our cybersecurity security expert right after this commercial break. All let's talk about fair. That's f. a. I r. what what is it a brand new way to get a car all on your phone with the flexibility to turn it in any time yup about that grabbed your attention. You were thinking about skipping through visit visit but not anymore. Ron burgundy doesn't waste your time with bullcrap in fact. Maybe you don't even need a car now that i brought it up. Though you're second guessing yourself yourself you do need a car. That's just the kind of powerful spokesperson. I am and you're going to shop for a car using fair right in the app. You'll find cars with monthly payments that fit your budget. You sign up for the one you want with your finger. Make a one time payment then pick up the keys and make the monthly payments as long as you want to drive it. That's vital information that i just put in your head. Damn i'm good at this. Did you know that offaire cars come with limited warranty routine maintenance roadside assistance even option insurance. If you want it all bundled in your monthly payment well there you have it. We've told you about a great app. You're probably going to get a car whether you need one or not fair. That's f. faye. I are and i'm ron. That's spelled c. o. L. see what i did there. God i'm such a great broadcaster and welcome back to the ron burgundy podcasts ron burgundy and we are joined right now by our cybersecurity expert <hes> richard greenberg richard. Thank you for joining us here on the podcast my pleasure thanks for inviting me richard. Can i call you dick. Could you go by dick greenberg the last person that did that had an unfortunate accident okay but you can whatever you are. I'm gonna call you richard. I am not i'm gonna mess around with that stuff. Let me just start up. I think what is a cybersecurity expert for those listening well. We all know that the hackers are looking and to get all of our data everywhere who the hackers is that a musical group while there are good hackers and bad hackers. We call them white hat and black hat. Whoa okay okay here. We go here. We go so the white hat. Hackers are the guys that look for vulnerabilities to try to help us identify where weak and what we could fix a black cat hackers of the criminals are the real ones who that they want to get the good stuff there in estonia in russia and china and a variety of different places and they're trying to get our data because it's monetize is every piece of information credit card and social security medical records as value on the stock market so you're a cybersecurity expert. Do you carry a badge and a gun. Nope that would be a physical security expert because it seems like you should have a badge and a gun with you at all times as you know. It's hard to shoot the internet. That's the problem is you're dealing with cybercriminals glass but you're not seeing them yeah. They're kind of. We call on him there in virtual space have you ever by chance. Let's met one of these. Cybercriminals remembered their handle and been like wait a minute your soccer girl twenty familiar to me sock girl twenty three. I haven't done on that okay yeah. They're out there. Though let's talk about passwords those are important right and of course i'm not talking about the old game show password. Nobody thinks that i was actually up to host that show but <hes> but they went with a real lightweight instead <hes>. We don't need to get on that tangent but i'm talking. I'm talking about the passwords you use for security purposes now for myself. I just use the same password s. word for everything in my life. Is that the right thing to do. Absolutely not oh and as a matter of fact tell you what it is and let's discuss it but happy to it is eight. Oh oh eight five which <hes> you know how i got that that how it will because if you type that into a calculator and you turn it upside down. It's spills boobs so larry is would you consider that safe password. It's easy to remember right. That's that's. That's the good part yes. The bad part is that the black hat hackers right now share tools and they have ways where they can run scripts and computers shooters and try thousands hundreds of thousands. If you will password combinations just random letters they would crack your password it about three three seconds. Nah might take a minute depends well. I'll take i'll take those chances yeah well so you're saying it's not a safe password. Not not at all n. Also really can have the same password and all your accounts because if one is broken it's everything it's curtains as they say they have the keys. She's to your city and i said it on the air here to now. There's no way that those could still work. You know what it's locked in. It's locked into the old noggin. So do you wanna take a minute and go change it. What would be some other good passwords well. We don't wanna say those either bubis so one of the i can give you some advice <hes> <hes> to help formulate one yeah. This is the lubes right now what you could do better than a password oh cheese those are just worried so ron better than a passer word that means certain things but zuma's okay. I'm richard. Oh no that's okay. I'm sorry richard. I see he's focused on like five passwords ready to go okay. Yes consider a pass phrase right so a combination of words such as ron burgundy is super duper. That's pretty long. Oh maybe of ron burgundy is super-duper. I you might remember that yeah sure ever remember that so that's a combination of lettuce that would be hard for a computer to crack a so many digits somebody and then add some numbers on top of it. That would be good. Make sure you can remember those numbers so like ron. Burgundy is super duper one two three four five okay yeah you go got my new my new password okay but don't tell anybody okay so don't use that one. That was just an hypothetic exactly really done us at but don't use it. I can't think of another good one approach us that that one let me ask you about the dark web. What is the dark web. It's the place where the black hackers operate. That's where they live. Yes they're they're they're they're deadly and they want your stuff and you can buy illegal narcotics and weapons on the dark web by anything. You want really yeah so hypothetically if i wanted to access the dark web and by. Let's say this is purely a hypothetical medical situation. Quaid's would you richard. Would you be able to show me out of bikeway. Lose on the dark. Web acquainted still for sale. I don't know i mean gene. The lutes lewd greenies. Thatta means never mind well. They might replace those with more effective drugs. Yeah okay man-to-man will cut this out of the podcast richard. Can you give me some cueto's regardless of whether it's with the dark web or not now that would kinda compromise my position. I appreciate your honesty. Yeah appreciate your. I can understand the sentence. A lot of people in my stature would say sure ron. I'll get you whatever you want. Thank you okay. I'm sorry i can't help being a man of your word word and integrity so okay. I'll just have to go somewhere else hypothetically so i've heard all about the cyber bullying right and to my understanding it's when you when you post something to the internet and that that someone doesn't like mike and that person will actually drive over to your house and punch you right in the face is how do we protect ourselves against cyber bullies cyber cyber bullies act at of immaturity or insecurity or variety of other psychological things. It's the same thing in the real world. <hes> you know when i was as a kid i got beat up by bully ray and i'm sure lots of people listening had the same experience. It's no different. It's only online the problem with online. It's one and everybody can hear it and see it and it's forever can't withdraw anything that's on the internet so not just two or three people standing around see or hear it but everyone and everyone social network will see you know what else is for forever. Diamond is this an ad diamonds are forever. Let's let's move on k. Jewelers <hes> robots their friends our enemies. I'll just put it out there. So there's is something called a i artificial intelligence that are built in which makes robots in other types of think for themselves more or less they learn and they adapt right and so the future is unknown what these can do <hes> but there is. There's no use today really in cybersecurity but i think down the road they will be so. How do we keep a lid on this. How do we make sure that the robots don't <hes> john congress. It's a good good question. That's more of a political reference to the movie terminator. Yes there are reports. That elect says that amazon tool were laughing at their owners in basically scoffing at them. Is that something to worry about or he had a girlfriend named alexa. She used to laugh for me. I'm sorry i would tell her my secrets and you know what i wanted from the supermarket share and she would just laugh. Let's richard. Did you ever known alexa childhood. No i haven't i'm sorry for your that's story there. What are your secrets in your supermarket suggestions. Well i would just daydream around the house and say oh i'd like three extra large t shirts a dozen bananas some new sheets yeah is it was probably an interesting couple. We were great dinner party guests and you know what her password was. What movies on the weekends <hes> richard. I'd like to mess around with my c._b. Equipment <hes> you know have one in my truck and just drive around for hours talking to my pals of. I've got the muskrat howler. <hes> danza grew gerry all good buddies in my convoy and if if you're ever out on the road my handle is frog aubenas <hes> that's along the long funny story. I don't have time to get into any weight is my c._b. Radio safe from hackers c._b. Is open open so anybody can get on it but there's not a whole lot you can do with it unless it's connected to one of your networks internally which is most likely not the case. Some people people have actually done that but senior truck nickel then contained roger that yeah tell you richard. Sometimes i can be a real ratchet real ratchet john there will be talking to clobber buzzed ball and dr nathan. You'll fernald doing double nickels on the dime saying hey muskrat. What's your twenty wadi next thing you know i got some mama bear my donkey. This is a cybersecurity expert. He doesn't work with c._b. Radios and i've told you before nine. Everyone understands c._b. Radio lingo they'll come on carolina. Quit acting like a lot lizard. You told me that a lot lizard is c._b. Radio lingo for prostitutes and is absolutely not okay calm you that it also doesn't make any sense in this context context two and four that was add a line. I apologizing richard gets it though ten for ten four see i'm just glad internet. Hackers can't mess with with my c._b. Radio that's that's a relief yeah but that is an open line of communication so watch what you say or not so i don't wanna get too political on the show but as a cybersecurity expert would you know how to set up something like stealing feeling a presidential election in theory yes okay. What about an election to co op board. 'cause i'm having a real a hard time with my condo and i could could use some help well. Maybe you should talk to the people that might be a better approach. Share yeah just saying. Is this a money question because i don't mind kicking in some scratch my friend nah. That's okay help me out all right. Thanks condo board if you're listening. We've got a black half yet bill. I just bought myself a new black hat. There are times when i'm visiting certain websites. I'm gonna get into this delicately. Let's just say of an erotic nature right and all of a sudden get a million boxes popping up on my scream. One time i got so frustrated up throwing my computer out of the window of my den and it landed on my neighbors passat and she was pretty sore about it any solutions asians to that problem yeah get really strong tempered glass windows <hes>. I didn't even think of that yeah. That's great. That's that's a handy solution yeah yeah but the other thing you can do. Also is you know be careful. When you go to the internet. There are certain applications you you can download their called sandboxes with the isolate the rest of your computer am from where you're going on the internet. Some people use them for banking right. You could could use them for the areas you discussing as well <hes>. It's it's it's erotic art. I look at that's what that's honestly the looking at erotic art christie's auction house online asleep to pop up all right. We appreciates beautiful things things in life. I guess kris k. r. y. S. t. y. S x x x. Let's talk about the the terms and conditions that will see you know that we all have to sign. When we go onto a certain thing now i actually take the time to read every single word and then i send it to my lawyer and they we go back and forth. He makes changes and it you know it takes forever but i think it's worth it in general. Do you think people should be more careful with the terms and conditions ends on the internet okay so i would advise that people not waste their time with that because basically all the internet providers are saying is we might get your stuff and we're happy and thank you and we might sell it and that's the unfortunate part well now. There is a rules in the european union and they might come our way which affords fords all of us a bit more control of our own personal data so but my attorney charges me hourly so when he's making all those changes and sending it back to the site. They're not listening. They're not taking any of it. I think they're filing it in the in the oval file cabinet so you say it's a waste of time yeah however as long as we're on this subject writing the notices we get when we download apps with they want access to your camera. They went acts. Those are the ones a._s. No those are the ones you wanna question and if you have the ability of some of the apps won't work unless you say yes others might and you can say no. I just want to give you the access to what you need well then. Why are we using all this mumbo jumbo rondo. If all they wanna do is collect our data because it's convenient and it's fun to trade off it is it's a real trade off and now alexes is listening to us. Not your girlfriend no but the computer lab richard. What's your first memory with the computer. You know we were you a little boy sitting in front of a computer and just saying this is what i want to do with the rest of my life and i will lose my virginity the or i won't it. It doesn't matter. I love computers. Now i learned when they were main frames before the with p._c.'s oh what a mainframe mainframes a big old computer taking napa huge space in a large room. Oh like the ibm mainframe. Hey you go. Yes right you remember the old computer commodore yes commodore sixty fifty four sixty four those are coming back right. I don't think you would see those other than people wouldn't have styles. You just want to have them around. And what do you think is passed that i found so so. What do you think is the next. Oh that's a great question is in v._r. Is it what is the next well. I don't know i think at some point people elect to have the chip implanted. The people are getting chips installed nath to protect themselves from kidnapping in a variety of other hit their political in office in certain questionable countries technologies there. Oh you high high paid for a chip to be planted because he got lost one time to help well turns out. It was one hundred dollars poker chip so it did nothing. The guy ripped me off yeah. That was a bummer. What coach still there's your lost. Well also too. It's horribly infected. Canea remind me note to self have poker chip removed poker chip removed from neck from neck. Thank you steve jobs pretty cool guy right. Many people say yes. Some people say he was a little bit too intense tough to work with. He invited the macintosh the iphone but a lot of people don't know this. He invented mr microphone. Do you remember that night out. It was a toy microphone that you could hook up to your radio and it would broadcast voice so very cool steve jobs a true pioneer think jobs invented the mr microphone well whoever did gets my utmost respect the inventor of mr microphone. Is that how you got started. In in this. I got started <hes> by just hanging around outside of news stations and that was back in the day. Where do you could just walk in and you know have a good head of hair. Firm sanjay can get put on the air in a couple of weeks so it's really changed. <hes> thank you. Thank you for asking richard. Have have you ever invented anything. <hes> now just better ways to work more efficiently. I brought robots before and i i think i think you you had some good insight to that but i'd be remiss if i didn't ask sex robots. How close are we. I think they're whoa yanks well. I know where i can find him so maybe you don't need to get the tempered glass after all just look them up on christie's the art auction website richard. I think we are officially out of time. I'm officially out of questions here. I can't thank you enough enough for joining our podcast. Thank you for your expertise carolina. I'm going to give you the keys to my truck and if you could pull it up front. That'd be terrific terrific but don't touch my c._b. Radio do not get on there and open. Your mouth is going to be an embarrassment in front of my trucker buddies richard. Thank you again for coming on the ron burgundy podcast. I think you've informed a lot of people about how to be safe out there. Definitely don't forget that password well. No i've already got it burned in my brain. Grain might as ron burgundy is super. Sexy guy is only that you're not later all right. We'll be right back with ron borghini podcast after this hello there. I'm ron burgundy as you may know. I do a lot of serious journalism and every once in a while i just need to take my mind off my inspiring work and chill. Let me fill you in on some go to ron burgundy chill sessions to jump jump on all the beds at the mattress store to unwind the trick is to hit them all before the manager realizes what's happening. Chases you out of the store. I also enjoy spending time at the zoo chatting with my good friends. They're always up to something but when i'm feeling like i want to kick back at home i crack open an ice cold coors light bust out my knitting needles and get to work on my collection of little baby hats for my dog baxter since i haven't been able to get my coors light into the mattress store tips them off right away. I prefer my children at home where i can enjoy my coors light and knit in peace celebrate responsibly twenty nineteen occurs brewing company golden colorado and we are back iran reading podcast carolina yeah i kept thinking what richard said about the white hats and the black cats i mean what would you rather be a white hat or black hat white hat of course it's the person protecting our information shen protecting our data. You're not intrigued a little bit about the dark international blackhead. You'd have a lot of power prestige judge. No i am i that sort of the question between good and evil right yeah so i want to be good. What you wanna be whitehead to good okay. You have to look at me. I'm just curious just seeing though like at no okay yes. I want to be a white hat to wonder if they're gray hats though or sort of like a light gra charcoal grey gray had a beautiful. Yes felt a feather in a feather in it. Is he or she good or bad. The charcoal grey ahead. You don't know well. I put that on the list of potential screenplays yes perfect. Thank you yeah. Let's get an outline going early on that. 'cause i'm going to start writing all it would movies. I know we've we've talked about this. That's my goal for this new season the gray hat and at some point we will have a stage reading on the podcasts of my manuscript. Yeah i've written the can't wait for that. We are going to do that by the way doc what other thing about richard i mean boy he was not won't i asked him if i could call him dick and he said the last time i called i mean that was spooky. Spooky aggressive comey dick. They were on terroir accident. Did you notice did you didn't notice it until the end of the interview uh-huh but he in his right hand. He put his hand on top of the table and he had brass knuckles. Oh my god what what does that mean. I mean he had old fashioned brass knuckles. He's a cybersecurity. No makes no sense well. He might be a killer. We don't know that we cannot jump to that on the air. You're right however i did know if he were to leap across the table and try to punch me yeah with the brass knuckles. I was going to cushion the blow with your face well. I why isn't that great. I was already thinking ahead of time that i would use you as a human shield because as i would have gotten pummeled and you would have been fine but that's why i respect you so much. Your selfless white had attitude prevails. I don't know if that's what i met my said. I wanna be a white hat so so. Are you thinking you wanna black and i don't want to go down for black cat luke. I'm your father exactly what that was from. Star wars good couldn't remember who star wars. The raiders of the lost ark doesn't matter. Let's follow up with richard. Don't really can't give me some quotes. Okay okay well. We'll catch you next thursday on the ron burgundy podcast. This is ron burgundy saying until next time. There'll be a black cat. The ron burgundy podcasts is a production of iheartradio at funnier down. I'm ron burgundy ghost rider and executive producer carolina barlow is my co host. Writer and producer produces are jack o'brien nixed miles those gray and our executive producer is mike fair are consulting producers andrew steele coordinating producer is colin macdougall associate producers are and jose and sophie victim riders jake fogleman's our production coordinator is hannah jacobson. This episode was engineered mixed and edited by next up until next time unburied. What would you rather have an app on your phone that plays beautiful music or a bunch of old scratched up baas gags gags cds that have been sitting in your glove compartment chances. Are you want the app and the app you want when you're looking for. A car is fair. That's f. a. i r. You're should you get locked into a long term lease for a car off a lot like some kind of boring person you can get a cool set of wheels from the comfort of your own phone. No long term commitment goes or even physical paperwork limited warranty routine maintenance roadside assistance even optional insurance if you wanted fare f. a. i r. downloaded. Get a car. I'm done talking now.

ron burgundy richard greenberg richard ron richard greenberg mike fair dick greenberg carolina carolina christie carolina soccer alexander graham ron borghini european union f. faye ibm c. o. L. larry
James Harden's MVP Case

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35:49 min | Last month

James Harden's MVP Case

"We want the best of both worlds. We want a hybrid a smarter. Hybrid cloud approach ibm helps retailers manage supply chains with watson. Ai while predicting demands with these the world is going hybrid with ibm visit ibm dot com slash hybrid cloud. Welcome to the jump. I'm rachel nichols alongside. Nba champ. richard jefferson four. Nba finals for this man. Like the pub that a little more whatever you need. I'm here for especially when you're sitting next. We shared a moment though we shared. nba finals. together. We share a lot of titles. Especially like mary go. You're going to share a discussion on lonzo ball gentleman. Interact a few minutes because coming up. Clippers are reportedly interested in trading. Four lonzo do richard and robert like this idea given that the clips haven't won consecutive games in a month. Stick around to find out. I though we are thrilled to debut a new segment here on the paul. Can i have a word led to start out in dc. Where the thirteenth place wizards out east beat the jazz. Who owned the best record in the league of course bradley. Beal scored forty three points. Russell westbrook had thirty five fifteen rebounds thirteen after the game rudy. Gobert challenged his teammates to fight back on the narrative about his team. Take a listen. I think we understand that. Accompany you know would be second round a few times but You know we we. We get said when people count not laugh at us on tv and others and and as disrespect bird on us. Where respect for ourselves all right so richard. Can i have a word for rudy. Gobert postgame comments right here. He is a hundred percent correct. One he needs to challenge his teammates as a defensive player of the year as that guy multiple times. He is a person's challenges. Team defensively the next part about it. That i really agree with them as like they haven't accomplished anything. And so if you want that respect it's a day in day out and then it's a postseason but the postseason starts now for them and ask you to reveal yours in a second but do you feel. Do you agree on on his point. Totally agree with you and is going to kind of connects into what i want to save for my word on the screen here all right so there you go. What is your word. My were is in convenience. What i mean by that. If you want to be a champion you can't have these little inconvenient losses because you have to prepare yourself for the finals. You have to do these things. I say to finance playoffs. If you want to get to the found you can have an inconvenient losses because you need the best record in the nba because you want the best teams that play at home. We know from years past. Your fans are some of the best. So we know they're letting fans back into the stadiums. We are seeing them at your stadium. So you need this much did you. Did you write that. Don't have very good penmanship. So that actually who wrote these entire boards were designed by our friend katie bomber. She didn't amazing jobs out the segment. I did not trust you to rate any smart. Because we've met you before. I wanna talk about what. James harden has been doing out in brooklyn and answer twenty one and seven since forming their new big three twelve and one since katie left the lineup with a hamstring injury last month as we look at hardens impressive numbers this season. I wanna point out that no player has ever won. Mvp the same year. They were treated so robert can have a word for hardens. Mvp case. this season. I'm going with the word truthful. What i mean by that. No disrespect to paul. Pierce is that he's truly a good player you know though that he was a guy that can dominate the ball in houston. No this guy is a team player. You saw what he was an okay see. He was a good team player but he said that moment like all great players. I want to go on back a shine among now you will realize he can't do that so truthfully he is a good player. He's a great player. he is an dongjing player. He's one of these guys that can change the team at any moment. So yes but this is. This is my thing. this is my word. The word is difficult. It's going to be difficult for him to win. To your point to gin traded to a sip a loaded team and i know the narrative would be well you know. Kevin durant miss time and he in cairo. Irvine's miss time and he's putting up historic numbers. Well these are. They say numbers that he's put up in houston for the last five years. This is he's done this and when we make it seem that like oh. He couldn't do it by himself. He had very good team. T was to multiple conference finals. Like he was very very close c. P. three got hurt. So that's the only time is really been close close but it. But that's what i'm saying though. He's he's actually already proven that he is that top top tier even as a winner because he's had multiple best records. He's done all of these things with d'antoni he just couldn't get over that final hump. He didn't have pieces like the nobody has playing with this with him. Though without kevin durant which by the way i love the people who take those stats and go see. No one needs kevin durant. They need kevin durant impressive in this chunk of the season. Top coming back tonight. He's been in and out to he's been in and out by just all he has been consistently doesn't get hurt. Yes we've never talked about. He's plays every game. That's kudos for that. That on the show yesterday because i think we're kind of missing that and what he's bringing to brooklyn this season we obviously been talking about the change and he made in his playing style. Right being more facilitator helping everyone else shine but think about this team. Kevin has been out for now. I think it's going to be around six weeks at least career as i said. Just been in and out throughout the entire season. James wasn't there. This is all the sudden the clippers team from last year right. It's like oh these guys have great olympic. No one's ever on the floor at the same time and it's not really until the playoff till they're playing together. Well that's not true now of this brooklyn team because james's there okay. How about this. I don't have a vote. Vote if the nba. If the if the mvp boat was today rachel who would be your. Who would he get your boat. I think he's first team all nba. That's an obvious thing in my opinion. So that means. He's one of the top five players in the league. Would he be your mvp. I i never talk about voting for until happens. Because guess why richard we do still have the rest of the season to play. You're not making me fall into that trap. But i will say that part of the equation is going to be. It's funny when harden. I went to brooklyn. I thought part of the equation was going to be. Oh he's playing with kevin and kyrie on those three headed elite elite monsters. We usually don't. We can't separate out. What you're doing is the mvp and such way that you win. That's not really the case. Because he hasn't been playing with those guys consistently but i do think in a shortened season. It will hurt him. That a number of his games came in houston where he was putting up some numbers but certainly didn't look the way he left. Houston to is going to be tough because like and it's like it's just going to be very difficult. He's deserving. I'm not saying that. He could deserving he's playing. mvp candidate through the season. Yeah he's got traded. And you got forced traded. Enforce that statement there james harden is an mvp. He's been top three for the last four or five seasons so like. We're not surprised that he's in the top three again this year especially with the team that he has and what he's doing but when you force a trade and it's not pretty you're not going to especially with a team gave you everything you want and this is not working for me. I'm out so. I wanna make clear you guys are talking about the tendencies of voters. And i think you're both accurate voters. All voters ruled. Fans are out there. I felt the rule was you can have to other people enter team. I thought the rule was if you had a trade. There's no rule. It's just what we know with trans overtime with those one hundred people who vote and richard. I do want to just take a minute to say that. While katie bomber designed these fortress. I thought it was very sweet. That you heart over your eyes. And i was passing notes back in class before you could tax. There was always hearts is surprised to see next class with a family. We head out to phoenix finally forever benefit an number one overall pick anthony. I can't even imagine you. Courses combining to score eighty three against the sun's last night. Cat had forty eight edwards at twenty one point eight boards according to elias it was only the fourth times teammates h twenty five or younger each scored forty or more had. Did it in two thousand seventeen richard. Can i have a word for cat and edwards last night. Shutout gus johnson very. Oh well. let's hope that bullets hope this is why there should be hope. Because andrew wiggins wasn't that guy. I think they established i very good player deserving of the number one pick at the time very talented. He's gonna play for fifteen seventeen years whatever but they never ever had that guy that dude and be next to cat. And let's be honest. Cat needs to be your second best player. Not saying the not a multi time all star not saying that cats not an all. Nba qual- like caliber player. But if he's your second best player then you might be onto something so the hope is because of edwards can be. Your best player are if you can get to the level where he's the best player in that team and now catch your second best player. You got a chance here. We go theory because this team could be a great team in the future but they need some pieces that go with them if you look at this dual is like a miniature notice keyword manager shocking. In cool you do. It should come home after now but when you play with guards that are gonna be that can cause double team make you make each other better so it was learned how to play this game and become a better ball and a outside shooter and cat can understand. He's bigger than most guys. Take him on the pros and when that's not working step on outside and shoot the threes. This team could be one of those futuristic teams that we always talk about that we want this day and age stretch for a stretch by everything. Yeah that's why. I like cap because he can go on the block and you can do a ton of thing but ultimately certain times you see you see what's going on not be your best player. Want to win a championship. Anthony davis can't be your best player and that's not a knock on these qualify quality players. I just think that if anthony anderson gets to the point where he's the best player on the team right and just because of his talent is ability. Now you're really onto something you can. You can have this guy if you let's say like the detroit pistons. When they want they all were equal in talent. Put together. Never know what can happen. What miami i think did it. It had a chance at last year. If dragic and roughly equivalent and not one guy check in kobe who you played with. They certainly each one of them would have told you that they were the best player on the lakers. Go i love. Can i have a word that statement. We'll be back on the job coming up later on this show though. We'll talk a little bit clippers. They haven't won consecutive games. As i mentioned in more than a month. How concerned should there be about their inconsistencies dude. You knows why. We all love basketball. It's the sound of the buzzer the roar of the crowd. The swish of the net. It's the spin on the ball as it's released squeaking sneakers before an inbound pass the time out that gives us perspective on the moment we in love basketball because we love movement and so we're asking you the fans what moves you. Goodyear more driven allows skiers talk about the clippers. They have not won back to back games since february thirteenth. To end with a record of five and eight during that span robert how concerning is this trend for a team considering we hold them to a high standard because we consider them championship contenders hostile because they consider themselves championship material. They talked about it last year and it didn't happen now to got rid of the coach said. Oh what now. We have some issues with the office. Now we back on top. Apparently not because you cannot go out and lose a game every other game when you want to be a champion champion might lose one in a month but you're losing every other game and you get what you want with new coach. You got a new offense but now you you're not competing at a high level and not perform. You got a problem. That's a problem because if you want to win a championship you're going to most likely have to win two games on time. That's the only one two games several times. Not talking about in the last month as the season is winding down. If you don't need to be playing basketball but you should be trending in the right direction. I have some bad news for you. Read this season shifted this year. We didn't start until september march is no longer the last movie you've got some time last month we got we got time. I'm the last month the last month before the okay all right all right yes. No i mean look and to to the players credit. They have set themselves sir. Leonard the other day say he is quote very concerned that use a concern so i think they're looking at it but they are still looking for what can unlock this team to. Its true potential. A lot of people think that's a point guard mark stein from the new york times. Reporting the clippers are interested in a potential trade from lonzo for lonzo ball from the pelicans. Richard do you like the idea of bringing in lonzo to upgrade their point guard position. I think that would be a great idea. I think lonzo is a young player. Shot in the arm. He his passing ability in playmaking. We'll get guys easy buckets. So when we look at paul. George who struggled in the fourth quarter kawhi struggled in the fourth quarter last season. If you're able to get an easy bucket here because your point guard knows how to push. He knows how to create drop. You a dime. That can get you going. So i if you're looking for something. And i think lonzo isn't above average defender. So what you need and the way you wanna play. So if they're able to put off good thing that's what makes his world so great. We all have different opinions. I don't think he would work with those seen because if you look at the way hawaii plays he's a dribble. Drivel gotten you look apologize. He's a gerbil jauregui. Do you need a guy point. Go he can pass well when he guys get the offense of jerusalem basketball so he's not needed and plus okay. You get down the stretch. You follow him. He goes to the free throw line. This guy scared to shoot free throws so you need a guy who has a strong wheel strong-minded even. He's a good deep as a player. He's a good passer. These guys don't need good pass. They need a guy that can do something else other than pass. But this is my thing. They need some kind of organize your but you reference. Why and you reference paul. George lonzo can help those guys a little bit. But it's also the other guys on the team like he's the one because why his insist numbers are up over his co. than what he normally average over his career but he's not a great playmaker leave. Those guys are dropping double digit assist on consistent nights or night so i think that it will help them what they got but it's better than what they have but still will be needed from the flip side and i've been saying this since our reporters at espn were saying the past. Couple of weeks lonzo was available or at least could you. Could you could inquire about dating. I think he's such a good fit. Rate was zion. I if i'm gonna pay that's what they're saying. They're not gonna pay him. That's the thing. What the number they're asking free throws that's a pairing that i would keep the i was david griffin david griffin. Go up next. We will discuss the incredible scoring search this season and whether or not it affects the way. We should be interpreting statistics. In this era. This is really interesting. I'm excited to dig into this. A couple of older school guys stick around for that. But i hear jump recommend today zach. Lowe's ten things he likes and doesn't like featuring hardens amazing pocket passes for the net sex got all the cliffs up there. It's really fun. Take a look during the break. We'll be right back. do own. Read your home share you do and i bet it can be hard work you know. It's easy bundling policies with geico. Geico makes it easy to bundle your homeowner's or renter's insurance along with your auto policy. It's a good thing too because you already have so much to do around your home. Go to geico dot com quote and see how much you could save. Its gyco easy visit. Geico dot com today. That's geico dot com back to the jump. I'm rachel nichols. I'm happy to be in studio with robert. Ory richard jefferson. There's an offensive boom in the league. People that is causing records to break all the time it seems. Here's proof on wednesday. James harden russell westbrook nikola yokich. Ben simmons draymond green and democracy bonus record triple doubles those six players. Liking a triple double on the same day broke the record of five which was set just four days earlier. That's not the only record that's toppled more than once recently. According to mike lynch basketball reference this season features eight of the nine best offenses in nba history according to offensive efficiency. The other offense by the way last year's dallas mavericks so again all within the past two seasons these surge in three point shooting has definitely continued. This trend looking at combined attempted threes per game nearly thirty five or taken an average today. That's nearly double what it was ten years ago. Five times what. It was thirty years to further illustrate this point. Larry bird who entered the league rate is three point. Shot was introduced in seventy nine eighty that widely regarded as the best three point shooter of his time. Well guess what guys. He averaged two to three point. Shots a game in his career steph curry who's of course regarded as the best three point shooter ever and certainly his time basically averages more than that in a quarter this season so everyone gets the point. Now i am sure robert. We're gonna start with you. How much should we put like. How do you judge stats the other night rate anthony edwards first rookie right to hit forty since kevin durant lebron james. Do you put him in. The kevin durant lebron james category. Because he did that or scoring inflate league. It's hard how do you judge these stats. You here is is so hard to justice. Because back. When richard. And i played as you saw two stats. We didn't shoot many threes. The game is faster to so many things elements that his game. If you really watch a game. I would love to see how many times a guy scores offer travel times guy. Scores offer carry. There are so many rules that are being broken that the nba or allowing. And that's the thing that kind of upsets me and when you shoot at three now if you jump the guy. Yup catapults in towards its foul. Shoot the threes. The free throws so those are the things that the nba in the stats. And all these things. Don't come into play but i'm happy that these guys are doing this because it makes league look good but i still say that. I don't like it because it's too many threes and guys just go to the free throw and way too much for me. I like that bump right there by rick morgan but this i guess the best way to really like break this down is that all these teams that are doing what they're doing. It is impressive but understand. There is no fans in there. There is no travel has changed. We saw elevated numbers in the bubble. And maybe this is kind of like maybe that was kind of a little bit of a foreshadowing into what we are right now. Numbers are elevated. Travel is different. Players are not allowed to go and be so short to go out and certain city and saying that miami flu is not all the bluest. Not real like it's there you know. So so that's the thing we saw elevated numbers in the bubble because players were really just focused. And so i'm not surprised here. That with the rule changes to three point shots. No fans and different travel schedules. And you're not allowed to go out and be social. That offenses are through the roof. Everybody wants to be like steph. Now you've been when we would come up going to be like. Mj msa was dunkin on people. But everybody wanted to jail from three. So that's the trend to knock kids at home a watching this. Oh make it to the league. I gotta shoot. Three's i'm scared where it's going to be in ten years in a bad way it's steph scared in a bad way you gotta seven foot center shooting threes. You got joel. Embiid doing step backs like he's a king. That part is scary. What's really strange. Like if kids are watching this right now and they see step in dame shooting and making the ball from half court. What are they going to do. Like when i m j. i went and tried to work on the fatal had. It couldn't do it the way he did it but had it not crazy thing is also game no matter you in high school college hoops which you see not having t you had the kids in america with onstar trying to shoot threes from half court because that's what we saw on india tv okay more skill that the game fun for me as a fan. I like these guys shooting cry. I get excited when damian lillard pulls up from the logo. I'm like whoa there. Goes you know this. that's fun. I have no problem with any of this. The problem i am having someone whose job it is to sit here and analyze the game every day is how do you put. How do you compare right. How do you have those comparisons and when you're talking about comparisons between players of this era like when we judge mvp stats or something like that on the one hand. They're all playing in the same game right. Sushi feel like okay. Well these deaths are comparable but one of the arguments for jaanus for mvp last year. And i voted for him. So this argument matter to me was. These numbers aren't just good or better than some of the other guys in the league their historic he was doing. He was putting up numbers and categories four or five categories. That had never been done before. And i was like well that that means something to me but as we have seen the continuation of score inflation as we go to judge that this year as we sit here and say man not so many trips steroid era and based on the air edwards. I don't like how do you put those into into sort of put the whole picture. It's hard and i think you can only do it after multiple years so like next year we we can talk about this year and we can point out all the numbers with the next year. Okay let's see if the scoring drops a little bit because players are can go out and then there's you could be more social than they have fans in there to. Let's see if those numbers drop and then in two or three years. I think to do it in the moment. We can just be enjoying and noisy but knowing that the best deal the best defense is even though they're not great defense is an historic standards are still going to be the teams that win. Champion analytics came ended basketball. That's when he messed it up because everybody says three years into now everybody wanted to shoot three so everybody look the golden state warriors team. So they're shooting threes and winning champion. This is a different type of beast. They have guys or elite. You don't have league guys shoot three so you're not going to be in the same category. Everybody always tried to take that model and duplicated smart. When you've got a guy like the andrea eight and this is one of my beasts deondraye eight and is one of the most talented young big man bear. Download the kid but he's shooting three fritos night. You're seven foot dude. Built like david robinson. Yes i think that that is a crime. And he's a good roller and maybe he's not as aggressive and maybe he needs to work on something with the fact that you have a seven footer. That is the number one pick in the draft that his averaging eighteen in whatever shooting two free throws a games means that there's a lot of physicality that has lost and he could dominate down there with the size and skill that he had. We can't always blame the players. Read to blame the coaches to you. Have a talent like that. use them just. Oh this is the day and age where we shoot threes. Go shoot three big fella because you can be effective. No use them make him put position to be successful. Don't put them in a position to fail. And that's what these guys are doing that when they tried to force guys shoot. Three's well let extremes and anything or a bad idea great. Everybody has to do it this way. That's not good rates so obviously some nuance. i do. Think some of the things. The trends toward moving toward threes or the way coaches are using players. I do think they're not all bad. I think some of those are good. I always defend the word. Analytics just means maths. Statistics reports are not about smart. Question is how do you use them. Do use them as the ruler of all decisions that extreme or do you use it as an extra piece of information in your toolkit is used as an extra piece of information. I think those advance stats are really really helpful. But again it is where. I'm having a problem. One of the advance stats. The honest had a historic numbers in last year. Never been done. Before was his player efficiency. We didn't look at player efficiency. Twenty twenty five years ago. It wasn't a stat that people had that voters had that the fans had at their disposal so we had the more. We had the more sort of general the eye test. How how much is he sort of counting for what he does for your team and other things fall into that. I test besides the hard numbers. So that's kind of where some of that comes in and you got to try to put it in context. It's it's interesting. we're watching it. Another era change before our eyes. You're all tests there. we go. Well you've seen seven championship for a test to me and there we go we now. Welcome in wnba player. Espn analyst jay. Gould mckay today. I wanna start off by showing a video from sedona prints from oregon. She shared it on social media yesterday from the women's tourney site in san antonio take a look. I got some to show y'all so for the. Ncw march madness the biggest tournament in college basketball for women. This is our weight room. Let me show y'all the men's weight room now. Pictures of our weight room got released versus the men's came out with a statement saying that it wasn't money it was space. That was a problem. Let me show y'all something else. Here's our practice court right. And then here's that weight room and then here's all this extra space if you are upset about this problem then you're a part of it. Amen man i think that's just not acceptable. This is from arizona women's coach barnes. She said someone dropped the ball on it. Nothing to do but fix it because it's not rate. I was embarrassed when i saw it. There's just a lot of things that have to change but it takes people like me that were pro players being voice for things to change guys. It was not just the workout facilities. The caused learn we also so the difference in the bags they give to the athletes. The meals some of that kind of stuff. So what does it feel like. You played ball at stanford to see the disparity in these images when i saw the quote unquote weight room. I was mad but honestly i was not surprised as female athletes we deal with the comparisons we deal with the criticism constantly and we know to expect less and we have always been told to be grateful for what we have but that was a straight disrespect. Honestly in the crazy part is how is the system that is literally profiting off of this grand stage of march madness. Matt it's supposed to support these amazing athletes. how are they the ones that are reinforcing. Negative gender stereotypes like that. I mean women don't need a legit weight room here you dumbbells and if you yoga bats that was the most baffling part for me again. We know that as women. We are fighting an uphill battle in sports but for the teams that have fought. So hard this season especially to get to march stamford played two months straight on the road. This season they all bought to get here and then they're instantly reminded that period go. You're less than what i'm here to say. You are not not omar. Watch not on our watch so the system needs to be better. Women are talk to your athletes period and deserve better. When i saw those videos i was like wow. We still have a lot of work to do. This is two things one. Do you know how many people in how many months they plan this out for right mud stephen doing this for for six months. People had to move that plan. Thank you how many people and it's not just men. There are women. There was no woman trainer from the nc double a. There was nobody that stepped up in. This isn't real. Or maybe they thought that was a joint weight room for men and women because a weight rack is what i have in my garage. That is not a weight room. That to me is the joe. And then lastly when will we learn that the insead. Aa is a bunch of gangsters. They don't care you consistently that the instinct aa does not care about student athletes the way they try and act like they do. They played this professionalism. They play this amateurism. The incident cares about money and that is truly it. It is a nonprofit organization that there are hundreds of people that make millions of dollars working inside of it. Just think about that. It's hard to look at this image because we know. Nc double is all about the mighty dollar a right that it says okay. Who's going to need the money more. Who are we going to dedicate this money to the young ladies even young ladies on sunday most exciting guys are women to watch this game and they're not dedicating this game the thing to them. So that's that's the problem my house because most of the time doing incidentally tournament two guys really lift waste anyway. Oh you don't have the time and you secluded hotel right now so stay that money donated to someone and wasted on those those guys not even use so not just taken away from the women because they need to. But i'm just saying don't waste the money on ways period. Use the money somewhere else. There's an article in the athletic this morning about some of the female coaches Who are working in the tournament and how the. Ncw is basically penalizing them in their teams that they have say a baby who depends on them for food. That baby counts inside the bubble against the total that they can bring in so that coaches team if they want to feed their child has to have one less athletic trainer. One less other coach one less person in the traveling part of the us. I don't understand how you tell women if you would like to be a functioning adult and also continue to be a good mother. Your team will be penalized. I is the ncw shows you who they are just believed them. Just believe them there. We go china. Let's talk about the people we should be talking about the women competing on the court. And you know we're professional basketball show so we wanna know who are the tap. Wnba prospects playing in the turney. Who are we going to see coming up through the draft thank you. Let's give them the attention. They deserve rightfully so the players. Keep an eye on. Here's my list. Let's start with charlie. Call your out of the university of texas. Of course. I've got to put my girl dana evans out of louisville on there who was a bucket for the second straight years. He's acc player of the year scoring point guard. Who's game is built for this month. And of course you know there are players that are not draft eligible yet but watch out for boston out of south carolina averaging a double double in the blocking machine. Don daily you know. Her groups stays ready right and pays bekker's out of uconn. Of course everyone knows her name. She had of the best seasons as a freshman. But here's charlie carlier. That i love i mean again likely going to be number one pick in the wnba draft. She's a stretch five out of ut and so you know she's been in the mix able to dominate on both ends. I love her game. But of course i had to throw page in there. I know she's not eligible yet but a lot of people are very very excited about her game as a floor general especially especially the season because they're dealing with the scenario without coach gina rem bill. Kobe protocol so her leadership is gonna come up for them. But i think we're most excited to see what this freshman will do this month. So that's my the tournament's gonna be. I'm not saying women's tournament we gotta start making that distinction. But it's going to be fun to watch all the march madness go down. Can i go even need to bother asking who your picked to win the tourneys. Oh stanford yeah you baby over arizona. dea idea and serves as we'll be right back here out just in the buzzer bucks coach. Mike holders says he expects. Pj dr to made his bucks debuted tomorrow against the spurs richard. How much of an impact do you expect to make the bucks unique. It's going to help defensively too. I think that that would have been the best place for. Pj tucker no right. I think there were other places that they could have used his services more than they do in milwaukee but he's a great piece great addition. Yeah he's a great veteran he can ask them. Three point percentages from from the corner but more importantly the business with that team needs. They need a guy who can played one through five position. So defensively gotten better and toughest to rate with him. Andrew holiday like i think that contributes to the overall locker room and how they are out on the court i just i just. I don't know. I just think that like. That's the a great situation for milwaukee but it. Pg tucker were to choose. and it's not about milwaukee. I'm saying like a team that he could the fit more other places that probably fit more. Milwaukee was willing to pay now. Robert does do the bucks getting. Pj is that enough to feel that it changes where you think they'll finish in the eastern. They still need to get more for you. Do a lot more got to. I compete and get lopez to get more rebound stop shooting threes. They need a lot of stuff in are good when they still need of stuff to be one of the best things in there is a big push last year of. Hey this is your chance. Because everyone knew kevin durant was coming back. Didn't know that james harden was going to join him there but the top of the more competitive even than the heat backed up there too. All right we're out of time this week. We'll be back tuesday see. Hey this is he. Check out my podcast. The wolves pot with insight and analysis on the top stories in the nba adrian origin ascii are insider extraordinary reaction to the breaking news. This is the latest roads bomb an in depth conversations with some of the biggest names in the league. Thanks again i'm good. Thanks for having me Yes thank you always appreciate you having me. Listen and subscribe to the wolves off wherever you listen to podcasts.

lonzo Nba kevin durant Gobert clippers richard brooklyn basketball robert ibm James harden edwards rachel nichols mary go katie bomber houston geico david griffin andrew wiggins
How The Pandemic Is Changing The Way We Experience Art

On Point with Tom Ashbrook | Podcasts

46:30 min | 10 months ago

How The Pandemic Is Changing The Way We Experience Art

"From NPR and WB YOU ARE BOSTON. Talk Ra Bardy, and this is on point. Art Touches the soul because it helps give life meaning whether it's on stage in gallery or on the street we are drawn to art because it conjures a unique kind of togetherness. The works come alive when we're in the same space feeling the electricity of others as they to react and respond to the person experience of being moved by the effort of another human beings hand I really do believe that. So what happens when we lose that togetherness when we can't be in the same space as together to feel that electricity that's what we're going to explore today. The question can art help give this world meaning even at a distance. And we're going to start with a curator who believes that the answer might be. Yes. The Hastings Contemporary Museum in England is closed of course, but they've found a way for people to still visit the museum. They use a robot. A looks like an ipad on a segue. So it looks a little ungainly, but it's very carefu- that's Gilmore. Director the robot that virtual visitors now use was originally used by Esther, Fox museum trustee and artists. So how does that funny looking ipad clipped to the top of a telescoping arm rolling around on Segway like wheels actually work will lose told us more. So you log in through a computer through link read easy. Just click a link. And suddenly, your transported to our gallery? Some of the poetry over the next submission the way it's the pace, the temperature obey back comes across rating well does and if you're driving it this complete tournament but Nestle Toner Knicks conversation and shared experience too. So it's been. In that way, this role, two cultures and communities together. So what happens there's drive that could be mean continue. And you use as Arrow keys on the keyboard six hundred back and right and you can drive it and we can have five passengers. It's a bit like a virtual goethe bugging at. So I think all those passengers and Dr Tool. The idea is that I can do a tools of our exhibition. So we'll have a conversation and everyone can confess. We sat out, we'll be objective of thinking how do we continue to show the odds and actually what's rather eclipse? That is the ability of to have a shared experiences shared station experience. I think at the time we from you secure the robot me what really thinking about the profound impacts of my nation how could we could we have nine but really what has been incredible is Fine. But this is being. Agents of social cohesion who wants to glamorize it, but it's been a way of US bringing together people from all over the globe from all contexts and experiences enabling them to connect with art as a talking points. A. Why do we look at first place? We do it to tell south together to make sense of the world and I think what better time at this time of great inserts. Do, we need that card sense of acclimation and shed experience. I think as the lockdown here and other places continues we realize that we have a very different normality to the to the future I think that technology now will be a core aspect of our activity I really want to draw and reflect on what we've learned through this project and to share that with others and beyond the Shannon experience that we're having that everyone to think about what computer might light grid rebel seek assistance. We're mediocre doll, not just the shape color form, but it's the way that we might see ourselves. It holds a mirror to ourselves and having the opportunity to talk about who we are and how we got to all. That goes incredibly important to sense of humanity. Gilmore director of the hastings contemporary. Museum in England the museum had its first virtual opening last week of artist and illustrator Quentin Blake and lids said it was fabulous and they are currently working on getting a second robot. So that's one answer to the question can art help make meaning, and can we find meaning in art from a distance? Let's get another answer and let's turn to Helen. Moles worth she joins us. Now from Los Angeles California Helen are robots, the future of of art museums. What do you think? High, MEGHNA Robots Future of art museums I. Think they're going to be maybe one future I. think There are lots of futures that we could. Imagine now for what it's going to mean to look at art either virtually through robots or images or. VR. And I also just. Want to put a stake in the ground I have no crystal ball I. Don't know when we'll be back. But we're going to go back to museums in concerts. We're we're not totally done with that yet. So I think it's also important to remember that. The intractability of human life is that we are social beings. We will be social again. That's right. Well, let me give you your full introduction Helen because it's well, it's well worth it Helen Moles worth is currently the curators in residence at Anderson Ranch Arts Center in snowmass village Colorado she's the former chief curator at the Museum of Contemporary Art in Los Angeles and former chief curator at the Institute of Contemporary Art in Boston and Helen one of the many reasons why I wanted to talk with you about this question of How does art help give meaning in this moment? If it's harder for us to to extract. The meaning from art is because I remember many years ago you walked me through an exhibition that you had put together at the the in Boston about. Art Pop Art in the nineteen eighties and Full disclosure. I. Don't know if you remember Helen but I declared you then that contemporary art always challenged my patients. To its that's my polite way of saying I wasn't a fan but walking through that exhibition with you. First of all, I had curator by my side but second of all being in that space with those works together in the way that they were put together you could almost hear the pieces in conversation with each other and to me that is how I got. I felt as profound sense of meaning about here's what the artists were trying to say about the tumult of the nineteen eighties and and I understood it much more and felt connected to it in a way that I simply don't think would be possible if I was doing like a google. Museum tour. I people always say that and I understand it of course to be true and I, think one of the things you were experiencing there in in my humble opinion is you know works of art are they're beautiful objects they're beautiful pictures. They contain all the aw being made by someone else something that you can't make and you look at it and you have the sort of profound revelations. And they are also like words there like sentences or paragraphs are essays. which is way of saying works of art. One of the things they're doing is delivering to you. The reportings, the findings of the artist in his or her or their investigation of life. And one of the things we do is humans is we we compile everyone's findings are friends, artists, the news, a TV show, and we cobble them together in ourselves to make meaning and. Art helped us make meaning of of some of the most complex and non verbal. Arts of life. Love hope fear. Death? Great big. Of. Knowledge and meaning, and so when you're in a museum, what you're seeing is lots of people's contributions to those big ideas all at once. Well, the other thing that you're experiencing when you when you're in a museum and maybe this is just personally important to me, but you're experiencing it with other people. So you have the multiplicity of the contribution of the artists and you also have the re the reactions and responses to other viewers. How important is that Helen? Well, I think it's really important. I'm a student of Marcel duchamp and do shop very famously said. The viewer completes the work. So a work of art in my mind is only ever half done You know the way artwork comes to have meaning is that we bring to it all of our questions and we enter into a dialogue with it and with others, and it's one of the amazing reasons why arts meaning changes over time because our collective understanding an interrogation of works of art. Comes to contribute to a collective interpretation and then a collective understanding of what they mean. Now, we understand impressionism more differently than it was understood in its time. Now. Aside interrupt you there but I want to assure listeners that we're not just limit. We're not gonNA just limit this conversation to. Art that might be in a museum. We're GonNa, talk about art in terms of theater as well and I think stage arts of all kinds of don't worry about. Don't worry about that. We will get to that but. One thing about museum based art or gallery based art. The other thing Helen is that. There's there's the diversity of it in terms of your physical interaction physical response to it I. Mean you're talking about impressionist paintings. Or, power paintings that are on a vast scale or the three dimensional ness of a sculpture or even even prince that are actually might be very, very small but you didn't know that. Until you saw it in the flesh to speak because everything can be put the made the same size when you're looking at it on on a computer and I think that really matters because the artist is being very deliberate in how she or he decides to create their work. We've got about thirty seconds before you have to take a break or twenty seconds Helen just your quick response. How much does that matter? Oh, it's one hundred percent important and it completely matters and there's no way for us to give up the profundity of the physical encounter between an individual and a work of art. No matter what kind of art it is. Okay. So I'm going to jump in there and MLS worth you've got a lot more to talk about. We'll be right back. This is on. This is on point I magnin shocker Bardy we're talking this hour about how art helps us make meaning in this moment of physical distancing and how we usually derive meaning from art in a way that requires us to actually be together in the tumult of the experience of being in a gallery or the quiet hush of a theater, and how can we make that meaning without that togetherness and to help us through this conversation joined today by Helen Moles worth she's curators in residence at Anderson Ranch. Arts. Center former chief curator at the Museum of Contemporary. Art in Los Angeles and the Institute of Contemporary Art in Boston and Helen. You know I've been talking a lot. About my own experiences in in galleries but I wonder, let me just ask you what do you Miss Right now now that you can't walk the halls. Of Your Favorite Cultural Institutions Well I have to say what I really Miss Because I traffic in the in contemporary art, which is another way of saying I usually go and look at stuff made by people that I may be don't know who they are and haven't seen it yet I haven't seen it already rather. I really miss being confronted with something I can't quite figure out I don't quite understand. That I don't have words for yet that I leave the gallery in a bit of a puzzle. Irritated. Do I like that? Do I not like that? What do I think about that? and. Try and figure out you know. What I think that other person is trying to communicate. I. Really Miss that quality of the unknown, the unexpected. Can you have a similar experience? Looking at works online. I can but I've of course, trained myself over the years not to trust any negative reaction have by looking at something online right I trust I've trained myself to believe that the gold standard of interpretation is actually to be with the object in a real time continuum. So this irony now that perhaps in addition to learning how to wear a mask and wash my hands all the time and not touch my eyes, I might also have to develop some kind of bone for thinking through new work. In this. Computer interface screen. Matrix. How can you do that? When everything is pressed into sort of a antiseptic digital unreality? How can you do that? Well. I'm not exactly one hundred percent. Sure yet I mean I think part of it is. To understand that the form that the delivery system the flat screen probably benefit some works and not others. So I, feel like I could still look at photos and paintings. Maybe, there's something about dance if it's really well shot and you're watching it in real time. But right now, I wouldn't judge sculpture. Like I'd be really really careful about sculpture installation or. Institutional pieces, pieces that really take on logic or the meaning of the site that they're in. I'd be pretty circumspect about any kind of judgment there but I still think even if you don't know how to judge things whether they're good bad better best. Maybe that's an opportunity to maybe instead of thinking about what you like and don't like you can just figure out ways to engage with work more gently. In the space of Oh I, wonder what that's about. Rather than trying to figure it all out right away, which is I think part of the anxiety of the Gallery Museum. Yeah. Good point actually there can be anxiety. The definitely goes along with that, and so maybe you're calling for us to sort of learn how puzzle in a new way. So so Helen, you just hang on here for a second because I do WANNA bring in. An artist in that works in another genre could put it that way because perhaps there's no genre that requires the physicality of the experience more than theater and joining us now is Melinda Lopez. She's an award winning playwright performer and Educator Senior lecturer in theater studies at Wellesley College. Her recent works include her adaptation of Yerma her one woman play. There's also back the night becoming Cuba and Sonia Flu Melinda Lopez. It's so good to talk to you. Welcome. Hi It's Sarah. I'm so happy to be here so. Tell me from the point of view what will start by having you put your playwrights hat on, and then we'll ask you about your actress hat. But for from with your playwrights had on, what do you think is missing? For now, when people can't sit in the seats and watch a play in person. That's a big. That's a big topic you know. When I'm creating work I'm thinking all the time about the audience experience. I'm thinking all the time about how an actor's voice is going a resonate in the room. How they're going to play in the moment and That live exchange of energy between an audience member an actor. You Know Theater I've always felt like a great metaphor for a our human existence in that. You have to show up. You have to be there in person the experience is brief and when the play is over, it's done you can't recreate it. And In terms of our own. Holding the mirror up. You know what we're faced with right now is our mortality kind of on a global scale. And the fact that theater is an accessible to us right now. Feels like a prism. Of Our literal confrontation with shortness of our own lives, the precariousness of our lives. And I think that great plays. Ask questions. That are universal across human experience like well, my life matter have I made brave choices. If, you look at anything from like King Lear to Hamilton. Right? They're all asking those same. Questions. And having the opportunity to sit in a public. Space. With other people who are experiencing these same emotions and. And sort of intellectual puzzles and an also the joy of the experience of being in a theater. It's it's hard to. Translate that to virtual experience. Of course we must and we will and we are doing that with some success. But As a writer Helen was saying your I, I'm trained. As a playwright. To think about the. The. Live experience Aaron's all the time when you said the word public that that got me thinking about how one of the reasons why art is so vitally important is that it creates. This rare public space where we can have both a collective experience sit- sitting in the theater and at the same time, experience the vulnerability of your private response to the art as well. There's no divide there and that's one of the things I is so compelling about it and I personally I mean speaking from himself as one of the things I miss the most because otherwise there's this like clear public private dividing line that we have now more than ever. Right well. For All of the arts that are meant to be experienced live. You have to the audience member individual who's going to make a pilgrimage right? You have to leave the safety, the relative safety of your home where things are familiar and you have some control over your surroundings You know sometimes more than others, but you have to leave that safety and go to a place that is public and where you're surrounded by people who you may not know. And risk. Having very private experience in public and. I think some of the best experiences that I have had in the theater have been when I've been profoundly moved sometimes moved to tears or or raucous laughter I've seen plays where I found it difficult to get up from my seat and I've been surrounded by people who could not get up from their seats and there's a an incredible kinship that has formed in those moments. Where you realize that what I felt was deeply personal experience is actually shared. Among all these individuals who you know prior to tonight had no contact with. and. That's a such an affirmation of our shared humanity. And I think that experience also exists with you know hearing your favorite band or going to a concert or you know. A. The, the tradition of traveling to see a work of art or or or a favourite play. There's something about the investment that you make when you leave security. And you venture into this space, that's a little raw and a little dangerous. And you don't know what will happen. Yeah. Did you want to respond to what Melinda saying. Oh well, Melinda, I meet you in this forum said was so beautiful and I. Agree with you so much that one of the weirdest things about. Museums and galleries. I've always felt that they were these huge public places where one went to have very private experiences and there's I think that there's something true about that quality of art that it's always writing this knife's edge between public NECE and private nece and I guess my question is really for us and for everyone is. We know that art has been with human beings since pretty much since we could stand in grab things we've been making marks. we've been making public spaces right we know from circular burial mounds right that we that we made spaces for people to gather. So, arts going to be with us, but maybe what's going to change this has changed before historically is its delivery systems. And every time there's a new delivery system we get panicked about you know what's going to happen and we think that the sky's falling and granted it's kind of feels like this nice falling right now is. Mean I'm not trying to be cool or anything, but I do think that we might be anyway at the dawn of the twenty-first century experiencing some real pressures on our traditional delivery systems, museums, the theater, the symphony. They were all struggling to varying degrees before this crisis. So, I wonder what this crisis can teach us about what some of the new possibilities are, what some things that we can prepare to leave behind and some of the other things that we know we we must take with us and. Some of the new possibilities that all this technology has shown. So that is such an important question Helen and I promise you. We're GONNA come back to it. We'll spend quite a bit of the end part of the show talking about it because it's helping us look forward here. But I want to just take a moment because Melinda had mentioned a little earlier about trying to do theater in in our current. Instance and so folks just listen to this for a second. What do we need to talk about is the latest apple and Apple family play from playwright Richard Nelson and it was recorded entirely on zoom and we have seen here and in the scene Jane played by Sally Murphy and Tim Played by Stephen Konkan and Richard played. By Jay, O Sanders they are discussing theater in our current moment it's going to happen sometime If not now people will again need to be together sometimes. We'll big groups of people want to sit. Together in the same space for a couple of hours when when, when will that abrogates? How long will that take? I call from the audience is listening to the ply. Who's right you lose something like Ziadeh you're basically saying people stay away from each other. So much more than going to a play gets lost. Those were actors playing characters in Richard Nelson's new latest apple family play called. What do we need to talk about and Richard Nelson joins us from RHINEBECK new. York. Welcome to on point. MAGNA So first of all, congratulations on the latest apple family play like what made you decide to the that you were going to do it now and in this way. Why I think. I think it. It never was intended to be a replacement for theater or anything like that because. I don't think feeder can be replaced in any way, but the live experience as as gasoline talking. I it's more as a marker to put down for those of us. WHO Work. In the theater live in the theater. That, we're still here. And it was kind of a hopeful act to say that's make the most of this. Let's keep working. Let's keep going I'll let's fan the embers a little bit to keep you know keep them from going out. And that was the ambition it happened. I this is the fifth apple family play. The first four we're done between nine, a two, thousand, ten, and two, thousand, and thirteen. and. Each one was set on a very specific dates with the conversations about a very specific time and place. and. I seem to be a good way of. Of extending the notion. Or asking ourselves question. About the very nature of of what it means to be live. I i. think that There's one thing Liz. Live. Within the theater with audience in the actors in the same place at the same time. There's live in that we we stream this this play live we are into I heard Heard it as it was being done. But there's also another way of being alive and that is of the characters in this play are going through much of what the audience is going through at the same time meaning through this pandemic, and that's another reaching out of alive experience in in a different way. And powerfully. So right because artists supposed to be one of those mirrors that helps us CR cells perhaps. With more clarity than we had before, I cannot think of a better example then a play written that's performed entirely by over zoom talking where the characters are talking about the lived experience of being in quarantine. Richard I understand that after that original live. Broadcast if I I don't know what the right word is but broadcast of it in late, April thereafter, the play was viewed more than what more than forty at least forty, seven, thousand times across thirty countries another another ten, thousand this week it's fifty seven times right now. So could you have had that kind of reach? Doing it in any other way. Of of. Course not. It's incredible what it would big surprise just to see what it touched and how people wanted to I. Think feel that they're not alone I think that's the very essence what theatre can be is trying to, as you say reflect back their own experience but no that that experience is not just there's but part of science and culture, Richard Nelson and Melinda Lopez and Helen Moles worth hang on here for just a moment we'll come back after a really quick break. This is on point. This is on point I magnin. Talk Ra. Today we are talking with around table of great thinkers about art and how art gives us meaning or helps us find meaning in life that more than ever today but whether or not that's harder now because we can't be together to experience that art and I'm joined by Helen Moles worth she's curators in residence at Anderson Ranch Arts Center. Lopez also joins us. She's an award winning playwright performer and educator and a senior lecturer in theater studies at Wellesley College Richard. Nelson is also with us he's an award winning playwright and director of what do we need to talk about, which is his latest apple family play which premiered. Online and Richard Can. I just ask you what was the experience like for the actors? Doing new play it was it was it was fascinating and we all obviously rehearsed from our own homes and so we never got in the same room together although two of them did because they're married. So they were on the same screen. But I think what was one one day after like three hours of rehearsal ended up talking to one of the actors on. Beyond the final. She said you know I. I really felt I been somewhere I thought I'd been in rehearsal I was so stunned when we when we finished that we were that I was just sitting in my own and I felt the same way we got lost in each other it's It was a a actually it was a very good experience it as anyone who's been on zoom for a long time. Does it after two or three hours you start to fade so it's a different experience than they eight hours of rehearsal in her room but it was it was still it was a Real serious correspondence to what it's like in the hustle. start to fade Richard I believe is a very gentle way of putting it my brain just flat out turns to Mush. But Melinda Lopez now it's time to put your actress hat on. I'm thinking about Mall Right? You're one woman play where there are times where you're directly talking to the audience. There's a very nece necessary and profound interaction between you and the people who are experiencing that play. Can you imagine doing that without a physical audience? That, that is direct address. So literally, the character is speaking to the audience the whole time so it would be a very lonely experience. and as the writer and the performer in that play you know I've performed that show probably over one hundred times I'm I'm keenly aware of of how people are sitting and how they're engaged and if it's too much for them, is it time to get a laugh? Is it time to back off It's very much a dance that particular experience because you are I am directly communicating with people You know we were able to make. A film film version of the performance. Which I had some concerns about because I I was worried the subject matter is is serious and it's intense although there's a lot of laugh senate and I was worried that I wouldn't be in the house. But I found that watching the filmed version was was actually pretty satisfying. And I think that there is a great place where we can live with You know we're talking about access. Helen, brought up this idea of Axum that delivery system what I love so much about Richard's work which I was one of the ten thousand this week that watch. Is that go right to the heart of the experience and you say we're not pretending this is live. We're not pretending this is theatre where on zoom the play is written to be done that way and I just think that's such a brilliant acceptance of where we are right. You're not pretending that were somewhere that we're not. We're in the middle of a pandemic and this is what this artist can do to address that I just think it's so brilliant everyone needs to see it. Thank you you that one of the one of the things we learned in in rehearsing it is the each of the first four apple family plays are said at a dinner and people are having conversations over the dinner table. And we realized that zoo. Was Our dinner table. Then we it was a, it was a it was a play which we having conversations over zoom in the same way, and that's very different than than a film or television and what you're talking about me. I'm sure doing film of of your show there's ways of you know tombs of close ups and how went edits got to to to to make very interesting work, but but zoom to try to put a play on zoom a play written for the stage. is a very hard journey. I think very difficult month because in June the zoom camera or the screen is a participant in the show you you're not like a hammer who's Seeing something or something that you can avoid. You are talking at it is participant and that's a different. That's a whole different. Dynamic than anything else in just why the play you know needed to be written, resume and and can't be done any other way it's not at stage quickly Richard Richard can just tell I'm here now so you question at how? Different. Is it or what is the difference between writing a play for a zoom? Camera? Versus. Writing a tele play for for television. Oh, it's hugely different. It's different to animals. Again it goes to the notion of of. The zoom as as as as part of it that I am talking at Zoom. And people are listening from zoom if that's the and that's spread out these little boxes of of looking at. US. In a tele play the the television camera over the film calmer is an observer of a situation, not a participant. And so it's a whole different, completely different concept. than. June has it's so it has huge restrictions but then if you work at it enough you find it also has it has it's own little secrets enjoys and you find suddenly the difference of moving forward to the screen just four or five six inches is a very powerful force in the conversation and moving sitting back tells a great deal of a story as well right as much to learn and discover. So I I'm on a toll three you that I'm mindful of the clock here and there's there's A. There's a really big silver lining I want to explore with all view. In fact, all three of you have individually brought this up. I started the show at the very top of the hour. Talking about this sort of transform trans transporting experience I had looking at a French. Drawing at the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston and I stand by my assertion that I would not have had that experience had not been able to see destroying in person and experience other people's reactions of it. And at the same time, I also realized that I want a few people who got to see this thing in person that most humans Mitt. Tens of thousands of people right here in Boston. Let alone millions across the country will never be able to have that experience. So you of all three have brought up accessibility. This is one of the greatest I think in most vital critiques of art of Art Institutions that they are. Can Be extremely inaccessible. I never saw Hamilton? Who can afford a ticket I. can you know so so Helen, let me start with. You could this be one of the silver linings that the forced distance that we all have right now is actually It's forcing or enforcing the dire the the need to find ways to make our. Connect more people with more art. Well I do think that Richards experience of that great big audience that he never could have had had the play Ben A. Conventional play presented in our conventional ways is really interesting in telling and I. Love this idea of the the zoom is a participant. So I don't think we're going to give up our pilgrimage to art sites because Melinda said earlier, there's something really important about. Leaving the safety that come for the habit and routine of one's daily life and entering another space. Excuse me in which those things are suspended. See you can have a different kind of experience. But on the other hand, it doesn't have to be either or it can be both and. I think that you know I was recently asked to. If I wanted to organize an art exhibition on Instagram. And at first I thought. How poultry how horrible and then I realized that if I organized an art exhibition on Instagram I could play around with Bernini Sculpture Daphne and Apollo, which sits in Rome in the bourgeoisie collection and that no one ever in the history of humankind would ever lend me to put in a contemporary art exhibition in the United States and so all of a sudden there was something that could be done. Just like Richard is saying that there's some new opening happens and you make you retool your skill set for that new delivery system and part of that system offers is a hugely expanded potentially more democratic audience. And so how do we incorporate some of that into our thinking really work the differences rather than trying to quote unquote get back to normal you know maybe this is the moment where we can acknowledge that normal only had certain virtues and lots of vices. Helen. Do D-, did. Did You Did you actually did you do the exhibition on? Has It? Yes it hasn't gone quote unquote live yet. But it will in the next few weeks and it's kind of an amazing exercise. Can you give us a tiny preview? Like what did you juxtapose the? Bernini. Against Well juxtaposed. Bernini against a group of contemporary artists who were thinking about the natural world through the image and metaphor of the tree and for viewers who don't know Daphne and Apollo. Apollo is chasing Daphne and the moment he touches her she begins to turn into a Laurel Tree and Bernini captures this incredibly violent. Gorgeous ecstatic moment. and her hands are beginning to turn into branches. And I just opposed the detail of. The photograph of the Bernini Sculpture. So already seeing the Bernini live. Right, next to a photograph taken by a contemporary artist and when I showed the juxtaposition to my wife, she gasped because we never would have been able to see that comparison. Outside of all of this screen mediation of our quote unquote real experience, and maybe that's the thing to talk about when we're sitting in front of a screen we're still we're still us we're still having a live experience. The to hear her gaffes gives me a lot of hope because. That's that's the kind of response that in the best circumstances arch should provoke in US Melinda when Helen. Said both end I. Heard you sort of. Virtually, not virtually nodding and affirmation there. I I'm very fond of that sculpture as well. No know my question about the new vectors. Is that right now we are certainly in a kind of a honeymoon period I'm we're being very free and easy with access. You know we still have cultural houses and institutions that are employing you know thousands and thousands of people. Artisans in the theater who build costumes and sets you know and I wonder about access and if there will be a period of. An attempt to monetize this kind of zoom experience. I can see I can see A. Darker place where you know the the live experience is just going to be for the super-rich. you know or what are the ways that In this period of time, we can try to protect. the democratisation of access to theater and. The visual arts. those are the questions I. Have I feel. There's so many members of our community who are suffering With this They're out of work. You know so many people go into making a play. Our production and a theater happen. Well, I mean I really take your point to Heart Melinda, because for example, so many community theaters were already barely hanging on. And having to shutter their doors even if temporarily. It's GonNa make it really hard to come back from A. Richard, we've got about a minute left and I just wanted to hear from you and your your your your final thought about it. Is there a silver lining here? Well I. Think I think there is I think you know what? Melinda just said it was really really true but I. I spoke to a class at hundred college, the other day and I on on zoom and. I made the point that. Right now there's going to be a great opportunity for young people coming into the theater I think. Because there's going to be a lot of avoids very expensive productions are going to be less likely more fly by night works or efforts will be appreciated in and given space I think I. Think we. Will. Find we in the theater are resilient and we will find a way back and we'll find a way in different ways back and they'll be void to be filled and that always gives us new life and new. Breath. I would say they're always voids in human life and art. Helps US fill it. So I cannot think the three of you enough for joining me this hour to think our way through this Richard Nelson Award winning playwright and director of what do we need to talk about, which is streaming free on the public theater's website and Youtube Channel got links about it on radio DOT. Org. Richard thank you so much for being with us. Thank you and Melinda, Lopez Award winning playwright performer and Educator Senior lecturer in theater studies at Wellesley, College Melinda. It's so great to talk with you. Again thank you for being with us. Thank you Magnum and Helen Moles worth curator in resident at Anderson Ranch Arts Center Helen. It's fantastic talk with you again. Thank you. Thanks make Nah I'm Meghna Chakrabarti this is on point.

Helen Melinda Lopez Richard Richard Helen Moles BOSTON US apple Institute of Contemporary Art director Richard Nelson Los Angeles Richard Nelson chief curator Hastings Contemporary Museum i art of Art Institutions Wellesley College Knicks NPR Educator Senior lecturer
President Trump Extends Social Distancing Guidance Through April

NPR Politics Podcast

14:28 min | 1 year ago

President Trump Extends Social Distancing Guidance Through April

"Hi this is Alex. And this is Margaret. We're coming to you from San Francisco. We got married two weeks ago and we're very diligent on our honeymoon to not look at our phones or to read the news. Needless to say we have a lot of catching up to this. Podcast was recorded at two eleven pm on Monday march thirtieth. Things may have changed by the time you hear. This things have definitely changed in the past two weeks. Alex and I will be enjoying newlywed life shelter in place at our apartment. Okay here's a show bill. I hope they honeymoon somewhere safe. They picked a really weird time to stay out of the news. But on the plus side their wedding wasn't canceled. Well that is very true. Congrats to the newlyweds. Hey there it's the NPR politics podcast. I'm Susan Davis. I cover congress. I'm Tamra Keith. I cover the White House and we're joined today by Richard Harris. Who's been covering the corona virus outbreak with the NPR? Science team. Here Richard So. Let's start with looking back two weeks ago. President trump at the White House when into the briefing room and announced an aggressive plan to slow the spread of the krona virus. Telling people to stay home for fifteen days and avoid groups of more than ten people last night on Sunday the day before the Fifteenth Day trump again at the White House told the country to stick with that plan until the end of April. Here's what he had to say. The peak the highest point of death rates remember. This is likely to hit in two weeks. Nothing would be worse than declaring victory before the victory is one that would be the greatest loss of all Tim. What was behind the president and the White House calculation to extend the request for Americans to essentially stay at home in chiltern place? The single most important thing behind it is that a lot of Americans will die if this doesn't happen The the number of cases of the disease in the United States is rapidly rising. The death toll is rapidly rising and they've looked at models that say it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better that two weeks. The president trump talked about where it might peak that is significant because just days earlier. He was saying that he wanted to have the country reopened churches full by Easter Sunday. Which is about two weeks away. Now he's saying no no no no. Don't go to church. Don't gather. We need to keep this lockdown for longer and part of this is that he really wavered over those fifteen days going from resolute saying we need to do this. We'll worry about the economy later today. Then saying that he was afraid that the cure would be worse than the disease and that more people could die from economic suffering than would die from the corona virus. Seems clear now that He was persuaded by seeing some really stunning and scary numbers and last night the president talked about how bad the outbreak could get and talked about some pretty dire numbers. This is what he said. If we can hold that down as we're saying to one hundred thousand it's a horrible number maybe even less to one hundred thousand so we have between one hundred and two hundred thousand. We all together have done a very good job Richard. He's talking about one hundred thousand deaths there. I mean those are some pretty stark numbers. What does that tell you about how much longer we have to go here right? Well it depends how we behave how much longer we have to go. The if people really do lockdown effectively for another two weeks the models some of the models at any rate do say That that's when the disease will peak but but peak is just the beginning of the end really or it's if that even because then there's a really long period of time where the disease is still spreading spreading at a slower rate. This thing sort of has to fizzle out. And that's that's going take a long time but obviously the longer it takes to get to the peak the more the total numbers will be at the end particularly the big peek sale. Let me just say that like that. Number President trump standing up there in the Rose Garden and saying it would be. We would have done a good job. If one hundred thousand Americans die. That is a huge. He he has come such a long way from what was just a little bit more than a month ago when he was saying. Oh they're fifteen cases now and pretty soon. We'll be down to zero. Well Tim. It also seems like we know it serious because we know how much the president doesn't want to be doing these things because of those economic concerns. Of course there's going to be political concerns there too but for him to be at this place seems to actually have the effect of sending a very serious message to the country. About how serious. This is because we know how much he didn't want to do it yet because he said over and over again last week how much. He wanted to reopen that. The country wasn't meant to be shut down and we saw as we've talked about on the podcast before the number of people unemployed in the country just shot up at the highest fastest rate ever and it's alarming to watch the economic impact of this but it is also alarming to watch the public health impact of doing nothing or not doing enough and Richard can explain this better than I can. But the numbers we see now are a lagging indicator absolutely. Yeah and because it takes a while for people between the time they get infected in the time that they actually show up and get their test. Results particularly since test results tend to get delayed right now by quite a while and part of this. I think is that even if you're just looking at something from the very narrow window economics and politics the reality is if you lead up now it's going to get much worse again and so you haven't you can pretend you've declared victory but the country will know if you know you're having thousands of thousands more people dying in hospitals overwhelmed and all the rest of that stuff so so part of this is he doesn't need to choose sides between politics economy and Health. In fact they're all completely linked together and advisors to the president that we were talking to last week. We're saying yeah I mean you. You can't fix the economy without fixing the virus and so president trump his political fortunes. And he knows this very well are completely tied to how he and the rest of the country is able to deal with the corona virus. Richard is that social distancing that we've all been doing for the past fifteen days. Is it helping? Is it working? And is this THIS PLAN TO ASK. Americans to continue to stay home is that what science is that based on. It's based on good science and what's interesting was when they announced the fifteen day plan at about the same time. Tony Vouch e the National Institutes of health sort of grew on all matters related to corona virus. Said the reality is we probably won't see a bending of the curve in that time we won't actually see the effects of that in fifteen days so so it was a peculiar deadline to have to begin with. I sort of wondered if it was partly just a warm people up to the idea that they're going to have to go home and stay home for a while but there is a little glimmer of hope in this Just today the Institute for Disease Modeling which is out in Bellevue. Washington looked at what was happening with social distancing in King County which is the Seattle area which has been doing for quite a while and doing it quite aggressively and their new data. Show that basically. The disease spread is slowing their substantially as best. They can tell unfortunately not slow into a right that it's actually going to burn itself out but it's heading in that direction and it has been for the last two or three weeks so so we have a demonstration that it really does appear that This this tough action that Americans are being asked to take really does make a difference. It just takes a long time okay. Let's take a quick break and when we get back we'll talk more about the krona virus outbreak when the economy goes Haywire Planet. Money here to make sense of it for you. From the big bailouts to the tiny details of vaccine stockpile. One of the first thing we did was secure a large number of chicken flocks so these are like hard working government chicken hard-working government chickens that's NPR's planet money podcast. Listen now and we're back. And what are the places in the country? Richard that have been hit hardest and sort of. What are we seeing happening there? Well obviously New York has been just the ground zero here for it and cases have been growing very rapidly there. There was a glimmer of hope today. The Governor Governor Cuomo today at a press conference. That looks other right. There is beginning to slow a little bit. But it's it's cropping up elsewhere and people are really worried about other places including Orleans Looks like Detroit is building up some substantial cases a Chicago area is an area of great concern. Some of the early cases. Of course we're in Washington state and California and the disease is still spreading there. But that doesn't seem to be growing there as rapidly as it is In other places and the and again knowing what the count is right now is a lagging indicator so a week or two from now. I think it's GonNa look a lot grimmer in places that it may be tolerable right now and I would just add to your list Florida right right. Yes that's true my question for you. Richard is because of this sort of patchwork of compliance and the way that we're seeing these cases still escalate the US is also now become the nation with the highest confirm numbers of cases of the disease. And I think that comes a surprise considering that it started in a place like China. Just that just has tremendously more people than we do. But is it a sign that maybe we're not doing a great job of containing this outbreak? Well that's absolutely true and unfortunately what happened was The first case in the US was in. It was in January in the Seattle area and unfortunately the United States really squandered the opportunity at that point to really step up and be aggressive about it and there was a sense of complacency that things were not so bad that there was only one case. It wasn't that big a deal. We would be able to control it and keep an eye on the contacts and unfortunately we discovered that that was not at all the case but we were flying blind because testing was so poor and so unavailable that that Health officials in Washington state didn't really know what was happening until it was really out of control there and we're seeing that Sort of replicated across the country were big country Were unruly bunch of people. Unlike China where people are being told by the government what to do and went to do it That's not the way that public health can actually be effective in this country so So those things add up together to make things much much worse here than they were in China though. I do wonder if China is being a model of transparency. Here that's a very important question I don't assume that China is being a model of transparency but I also think that if the disease were raging out of control there That that biggest secret is not something they could keep under wraps. I mean they may not be reporting honest numbers. But I don't think it's a conflagration there. I think that would just be impossible for them to pretend otherwise I mean each country has to confront it in their own way. But there's something uniquely American about us because one the state system you know we have fifty different states confronting it in their own ways but also just the American nature. It's like you were saying Richard about the cultural differences. I mean telling people. They can't leave their homes individual rights. I mean there's just this sense of American culture that it's a lot harder for the federal government to tell everyone what to do and then have them comply. That's also true that the model suggests that if you don't have at least seventy five percent but preferably ninety percent of people complying These stay at home. Orders are really not very effective. It's a very imperfect system if everyone's doing it it's great but But unfortunately if you have a lot of people ignoring it It's not effective. Okay so the president has asked all Americans to essentially stay at home as much as they possibly can for another month. But do we have any sense of whether this is the first and last time? We're going to have to do this as a country. Are we going to have to do this again? And again until we have a vaccine. I mean what is what is the science. Tell us about this Richard. And what's the White House prepping for? Tam Yeah Right. Well I'll start with the science and I think would it. Would it depends upon how how carefully we sort of lead up when we lead up as a country if people are not adequately tested and Then we could get hot spots flaring all over again and we can be right back at the start so people like Scott Gottlieb the former FDA commissioner has been thinking about how do you structure a sort of a gradual relaxation of these rules. And so on one thing you really need to do is be super sure that you can test everyone to make sure That That you're not having disease spread an and you're unaware of it. It still means social distancing for a while. It's not doesn't it's not a you know one day you wake up and everyone just goes back to normal and in terms of the White House president trump while saying this will be over at the end of April. Let's continue this through the end of April. He also is teasing out another date saying you know. Hopefully we'll be able to get back to some semblance of normal by June. So it in his rhetoric he is sort of leaving a buffer in there for an extra month and the other thing that I would add is simply that the first fifteen days to slow the spread was quite a journey with the president. Really wavering about whether he wistfully committed to it or not. I would expect that the next month is also going to be a journey. All right. We'll leave it there for today. But you can hear more from Richard and all of our colleagues on the science desk in. Npr's corona virus daily. Podcast please give it a listen. Richard thanks so much pleasure to be here and we'll be back tomorrow. I'm Susan Davis Congress. And I'm Timbre Keith. I cover the White House and thank you for listening to the NPR politics podcast.

Richard Harris president NPR White House White House United States Timbre Keith Susan Davis Seattle Alex China Margaret San Francisco Tim trump National Institutes of health Institute for Disease Modeling Bellevue
13. Helpful Healing

Keeping it Re.al

19:09 min | 1 year ago

13. Helpful Healing

"Hello and welcome to keeping it real where we're going to dive into the mysterious world of plastic surgery. My Name's and each episode I'm sitting down with a respected surgeon Dr Richard Bloom and Dr Kim Tyler from re plastic surgery and we're GONNA. Ask all the hard questions that you want the answers to. Moisture no coming in sighing WANNA, look like posh Spice Sore. Pamela Anderson, and so it can be what locked changing for them and We say improvements in their self-esteem. They confidence if someone's head good worked on the north, but I believe it is obvious having breast augmentation. You don't want to be going to the plastic surgeon who does road trauma? All surgeries include a recovery period, but due to the nature of the Tummy Tuck. It can take a lot longer to get back on your fate, so this episode Dr Richard Bloom and Dr Came Tyler from Ray Plastic Surgery I told us through the recovery period and what we can do before and after the operation to make sure we get the best results. Thanks for coming in came in Richard. Thanks for having US again Alex Hi Alex. Alex, so the Tummy Tuck ease little bit more complex than other surgeries as we've talked about in previous episodes, but it seems to have a much more difficult or longer recovery times that the case Kim is I would say that that is definitely the the case. Patients generally spend two or even three knots and hospital, and the way that we stitch them up, which Richard talked about in the previous episode was that we've been the writing table. And not quite an half, but we flakes them at their hips, so that we can remove as much skin as possible so when patients are initially getting out of bed and starting to move around they generally a walking around like little old ladies, really really hunched over in the middle, and it does take quite a number of days, and sometimes even a few weeks before they're. They're able to stand up Raj generally when they're at harm in that first week, they're really just around the high. Whereas after breast procedures, they will still have some discomfort there, but more more ball and could go out and do little walks out of out of the house, even whilst most patients are generally relatively confined to home for the first week or two but each day. To get more comfortable when they're able to get a little bit more upright. And overall the recovery in terms of getting back to. His normal as does we do say still roundabout that six week. Mark which for all. Other surgeries, but the first couple of weeks genuinely but. Generally would need to have a little bit more supports at high and usually a little bit more time off work. When we were talking about the breasts surgeries the reductions as well as old mention, we discussed Franken Boob, which obviously is a Lotta bruising that happens after that is, there is there. Is it very visual after you've had a tummy? Tuck that you want people to know about before they. Get to that period. It's not quite to the same extent whilst they. They are being in half, though so they kind of even going to stand up straight as often the thought that this. Can Swell up a reasonable and but quite. Amount and depends if they've had some liposuction, common areas up assumption would be around the hip, so those areas can breweries up and look a bit swollen. As, well, so, and it can also extend around the back, and down the thought sometimes and make those areas look a bit breezy west, and the other area is the pubic area which can often swell up reasonable amount to because purely because of gravity so woman emmy as well, can teen to breakout a little bit about that, but the overall. Abnormality is not quite to the sixteen is with a braced, and they can say flat result. Immediately to one thing I'm actually noticing radios goes facebook group. Is? The number of women who notice swelling in their thought is after Tummy. Talk and I think to Centigrade. It is real because we are making in caught at the top of the fine, so there would be some degree of swelling, but I think it's also relative. Swelling Tummy suddenly is. Why flat of them, what it previously has been relatively is. Looking big Patients that I that that's a real issue for her with Flat Tummy. Relatively her has a bigger than what they appeared previously because are camouflaged by. Their more in proportion with what her tummy was, so yes I mean. That's probably the closest equivalent to the. Franken boop Tummy. Agree with that and it's something. Win Noticing mortgage people just looking at the house, a lot more in their recovery period as well and something that have Bena patients for a long time when the having a breast reduction so got massive Brayson. They can't see the tummy. Embrace reduction then noticing Tommy more like we in my any bigger so that the thoughts is a similar comparison to that. And I suppose people are actually photographing the journey through the recovery. Much Moron they. Definitely one of the great things in the closed facebook group is how outpatients documenting their journeys, which is. I think they get a lot of benefit from in terms of watching their in progress, but certainly beneficial to new patients and patients who are actually going through the process to look back and say what other women have been through three journeys, very reassuring for them, and the supporting each other. Saying had the exact same thing. Dora had the same thing. It'll be fine. It's early days it'll settle down so one of the aspects of the surgery that a lot of people focus on the drains. The surgical drains Richard. Can you talk to us a little bit more about those? Yeah, so we do use drowns in other abrasions, but One hundred percent of Tummy, tucks really would have a giant the drains of very very thin, maybe five millimeters also wide plastic troops that sitting under the skin, and they have two roles one is they take away any excess fluid, and secondly they helped the skin because we've lifted all the skin remember we've lifted all the skin off the tummy wall so then helps because they're all negative pressure, said suction. They helped us for that. That skin to stick back down onto the tummy wall. So that doesn't create any fluid so the to rule surfaces being the muscle wall, and the under surface of the skin, they daylight to roar self-services. If you grazie name or something, so they just creating fluid, and so the drains, take away the fluid. There's always a lot of probably unnecessary concern about the drains. Definitely, people don't like them that. Don't like the thought of them. But I would say the majority of them. Usually surprised at how painless they are actually remove removing them probably takes under a second to take them out, and because nonstick slide out pretty easily so I appreciate. You know why people don't like to have them. It is annoying, but the reality is the time when you've got them. It's not like you're going out for dinner or going to work. Generally, it's very early in the recovery is. And so they are necessary part, and I think they do shorten the recovery period that decrease the swelling decrease your risk of having a a chronic Sarah, which may need more surgery to to repair down the track in terms of? Kind of talked about the beginning of the journey. But how long does it actually take from the day of surgery to win your back to the way that you were originally or not originally? Yes, I hopefully. Somewhat bitter vision of original. But I would say. Around six weeks, people were starting to feel like the getting close to back. All bit probably really takes about three months before the feeling like I'm back at the gym, doing maybe not quite the same amount of whites own duration that what they were before, but feeling like they're back on track doing so. It certainly is a little bit longer. Recovery period than a lot of the other surgeries that we perform, and we'll women be able to do. Sit ups and waits for the rest of their lives normally, or will they have to kind of pull that back a little bit after the operation, they should be able to do them Beata they before because the muscles have been realigned, this strengthened the position that they're in is is where they should be, and so they can take a lot of retraining as well and if you think someone's say forty that they're having the surgery done, and they had the kids maybe in their twenties, the muscles in the. The wrong place for five ten fifteen years, so it's not going to happen overnight whilst the repair happens overnight, the the restraint thing the retraining the posture really takes work as well and a lot of my patients. I recommend even prior to this address. They've got terrible posture and really poor muscle control as she to have some pilates awesome Fizeau, before they undergo the surgery, so the at least once they've had the surgery. They they kind of know some of those movements, but a lot of those movements should be significantly easier to control and beater for them once they've had their that muscle repair yeah! And in terms of we're told before the election, women's should ideally white till they've completed their family. to have this surgery. How soon after giving birth should they wait in terms of health as well as looking after? The children. I think you've sort of highlighted two issues, so one is when they body is back to normal, so that'd be when you've returned to your prepregnancy, White and The skin is retracted as Ma is stable and is retracted as much as can. The other aspect to though is when they kids sort of self, caring and and walking. I mean obviously you can get around a little bit. If you've got a supportive partner or family who can help out? Whilst carrying heavy heavy autumn's is out the. Civil Wakes, you can lift from maybe two or three weeks. Can you could lift a small child into a car or into a bath that not carry them around the supermarket, but you still that I two or three weeks. If you've got a toddler, who can't yet walk. It's GonNa make. Very difficult for you, so this is the two aspects so body back to pretty much normal and kids who are somewhat self, caring or supportive partner would be to limitations say it'd be pretty usual to tummy. Tuck on a woman who has had a baby in within the last year and just add something. I asked. Ken, Tommy Two at the time that someone has a delivery baby so. Therein? Talk and Absolute answer to that is now in the this many many reasons, but. The minority. She required operation. And, so they really need to just deal with having a baby look after the baby getting through that focusing on the baby, and then getting the body is in good shape is going to get to, and then release is to whether they do need this kind of soon and certainly not every single woman that's had a pregnancy needs a tummy tuck. These these. Wouldn't even be out of. Has it a guess at the percentage of people that would have significant muscle issues, but it would be at least eighteen told would say just on. That idea of having a tummy tuck. Goes out science, actually negligent to do it at the same dawn, and there's a whole lot of medical reasons why you just wouldn't do it. You never going to get a result and I mean as Kim said may not even be necessary, but. anyone offering to do that? I think you need to stay away from St Clair Yeah. I'm another thing that we haven't talked about yet. His scarring. Oviously this procedure does have more will a large a scar than other procedures. What do you recommend? People can do during their recovery to try and minimize that in that visual impact VESCO. Let me go back for so it is a long sky you ride, but the the K with Tummy Tuck we. This is one of the big things we say from. That they do wrong is is that they don't keep it low enough, so the skies usually pretty good quality Scott, but the case Cape Long Caving short doesn't make that much difference, but as long as it's low, and you can hard in underwear and bikinis. It's usually not problematic so How the scarring depends on the location, so take the tummies a good area. For wound healing number two obviously is technique again. Take for us. We very meticulous with how close the skin and that's how training and then down the track. For All of our patients, we offer them laser treatments at eight weeks twelve weeks for their scar and that. Tends to help soften the scar and certainly decreases the early. In the sky, and then the last thing is gone so Scott. To evolve even out for year, and sometimes they've been out for two years so die, lovato hide it for laced seeks, or maybe even twelve months, because if you look back on it at twelve months and look back on it what it looked like at six months it will almost certainly look better, and then the general things that just general good health and nutrition and exercise, and just being fit and healthy in terms of sort of mythical magical ornaments and things that people often ask us about Manuka, honey is always one that pops up. Is that a me rose oil vitamin A.? None of them have much science behind. Improving them We do use typing for six weeks There's some some evidence that typing particularly silicon. Typing which we use my help so we do do that, but a lot of the off use it why comb but it it doesn't make much difference might say time. The only other Scott that Richard didn't mention is the one around the outside of the BELLYBUTTON. Say because we pull it through that in the skin. There is an additional Scott there and the essentially. If someone wanted to wear a bikini is arnie Scott is potentially visible. we both do our belly button SCUZ- slightly different from each other, but still reasonably similar in quite different to how a lot of other students would do so the aim is to make it look natural. Anesthetic in around Scott is not there so asked to see photos of Abedin skulls, and the that's often a giveaway in someone's work as to how much care and how meticulous they are about, the results is nothing worse than I think to say in this. As John Big around sky around the outside of someone's belly about an end, absolutely giveaway to the sort of surgery, so we try to make this Gaza. is hard to describe without seeing over, but the looks like it's almost inside the belly button, so it kind of retracts down and his head heading as possible trusting. Will obviously talking about how serious these operations and the recovery time, but before we go. What are a couple of things that that someone that's listening? That's preparing for surgery can do in the days before just to make the first week or two. Easier so I think. Be prepared beforehand. These quite a few things you can get organized in your hyme beforehand, so that would be meals. Something that you can either arrange to have online meals delivered or prepacked pre prepare. So far is in meals. Or recruit someone that's going to be at home with you can. Do those sort of things. The other thing that's really useful was being described as a pillow fort, so having many pillows, and having a more propped up and around your bid, so these patients donate to Cape flexed at hoops, and also the knee so essentially almost in a cheer type of position so. They're going to be sleeping in their own bid in having a lot of pillows to support the knees and their back other patients that we've had more recently have been renting recliner touches that they've found of being comfortable to sit in for that first week or two auto sleeping as well they begin also having meaning pillows and. Having systems at home as well so shadow he to an independent group of women who running a company called Pugh Concierge Kim non not affiliated with them. They previous pipe plastic surgery patients who've been through all of this and if salsa lot of the Zayed's that Kim has. Referenced I'm seeing by the through them and night. Also offer service way that can come out and actually look after you care for you in the in the few first few days after your recovery. That brings us to the end of the Tummy. tuck journey. If anyone has any questions on over to our facebook and Instagram, re plastic surgery at all to our website, we've got plenty of information on there as well and in terms of what's coming up next came in. Richard have a very interesting episode, which is what everyone really wants to hear about unfortunately with plastic surgery, which is the operations that they have encountered that other people have done the did not go according to plan, so that's botched which she's the next episode. burners episode in the series, but thank you very much for joining me. Richard and Kim Burns Alex. thanks for having us. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of keeping it real to keep up with our next episodes. Go and subscribe on spotify or I tunes wherever it is that you get your poke cost. If you have fair, the questions, a one attack the next step visit, www dot, ra, plastic, surgery, DOT COM, Dot Edu or follow ray on social media.

Dr Richard Bloom Kim Burns facebook arnie Scott Flat Tummy Franken partner US Pamela Anderson Alex Tommy Two Tummy Dr Came Tyler Spice Sore Raj Tummy. tuck bruising
Comparing Machine Learning and Analytics in IoT

The Internet of Things (IoT) Show with Bruce Sinclai

1:05:49 hr | 1 year ago

Comparing Machine Learning and Analytics in IoT

"My definition is the INS really what I would call the layers of neurons working working to help you make a decision. Although a I has been around for sixty years it's only been relatively recently to because the vast amounts of data are now available to train it in this episode all this adds more on this episode of the ink business of the next generation Internet this is the Iot Inc show this show is made possible by sales of my book Coyote Inc published by McGraw I'm not professional by completing the program three courses I C I P technology not Dash Inc dot com that's www dot iot innovation at environics analytics he has over thirty years of experience and data science autograph McMillan Richard Welcome to the show thank you Bruce Thank you very much Dan Veronica research which is a lot of groundbreaking work in terms of trying to look at attitudes and perspectives amongst to try and look at the the data mining data science all that has has good fit with the market research you know we're we're collecting data on a large number of records sometimes mation where where where it's been given permission because there's been a and this is her you're making a disclaimer awesome does not want to be marketed to then Orrin or different sources well there's there's I mean the primary source and where might we're or in you know from your perspective stays perspective zip code level saw mm segments where we use this aggregate level data that we've been able to generate they will they conduct sense they conduct a census every every five years title to all Canadians so our expertise and most of the the the lions source of revenues come from but our company has expanded into just I'm working with data that's collected that's gathered from an individual a travel company like let's triple eight I would have a customer database they don't have any how many how many call how many roadside service Blair will also sell insurance because natural fit with their with related to you know their their their activity from from a roadside perspective that's all they'd be reaching out to their customers to make sure that they're that they're let me know we're seeing a lot with the press again I'll repeat the facebook Cambridge situation and so most of the very very good marketers have always had so bad you know you do not want the the bad press so the good marketers have always been accompanies our new you know the you know they've not been around for a long time and I'm sorry sorry but let's face it he's he's been glow he's had experience with on how the customer wants to use their data how how in touch are you with that's a good question roofs I mean I was involved the twelfth twelve I remember that and I was part of a road show that do because the Canadian government was coming up with this this legislation I believe it was in two thousand the legislation would mean to to marketers and we went the legal ease I was I was brought in because I was a practitioner like I was working the and because they knew that I you know my position is is Iowa's I can tell you if a customer doesn't want you to have access to their data I know are you know based on my models are not gonNA show him to be a to legislation is really about it's about it's about consent eight in a variety of ways you have to ask yourself is the way that I'm using the you're not for profit so you're like Red Cross and Red Cross decides on the customer because they're not expecting you to use how is how if I had a core offering and I'm offering another product would this be reasonable for one of these reasonable for the customer to last one is governed it's like is my data secure and protected allowing principals or those three sort of overriding goals and so that third his social media ever being ever so prevalent we're seeing that the my experience because I've been in the business for thirty years in the non is more the traditional areas but can do with that data Anderson we have access to it in a very very You know these are all these ads that we're seeing on our screens are all driven one of programmatic advertising where we're cl- we're companies are bidding a number of times in the podcast but let's let's pop up and give us a it's in a in and we'll we'll get into the definition a little later is really what I would call the deep neural net learning so it's using your old neural nets try to simulate the brain and if you think of the brain was all the mathematics and the technology has tried to is is try to emulate the technology or the capacity a lot of the the solutions were very weak I remember reading percents AC- actually even lower than that maybe forty five to fifty percent accuracy back then so the you know the notions of you know we've all heard I do map reduce that ability to these kinds of technologies and the second I technology by looking at what's called multiple heddon letter so traditionally they urban is is now we bumped from single to to multiple hidden layers in some cases areas like image recognition tax recognition I imagine an image recognition it was around forty GonNa get the economists every month on the covers. Ai Right everything been receiving where they went from percent to well over ninety percent in being able they call artificial intelligence but a lot of logistic regression decision trees multiple regression computer like the computers actually doing something that the human they've been using traditional techniques for certainly thirty years and when I'm working with but where the learning comes in it's actually like with a lot of these techniques number of items in maybe fifteen or twenty different night or agents where it's going back and forth trying the number of variables but it's optimizing it against the variable bution so for instance if it's multiple regression its linear let's is is is it takes to the next level it is not assuming any kind optimized the the data all right well let me let me just stop you there so first to be classified as a today this is where I think it's a little bit confusing is like are and and then you could extend that definition a little bit further we're just talking about statistics aren't we we're still talking about analytics in the neural networks I guess it is but it's it's hidden but it still is going to be still these traditional analytics techniques here my off there makes a lot of the mathematical techniques that are that are being uses trying to do is if distributions non-linear you've got let's curve within the data or local local distribution where the math is going a sort of a localized area of data like in your bution and is doing that if you think of a Parabola it's the date is kind of going down trigonometry of why X. Right I think it's Tan of that burn the white divided by X. Becomes zero so you could say it's found an optimal that was just a just understand what you're saying I mean affected what you're talking about is taking the slope and then you're saying a little bit the techniques are not new but what is new what seems to be new take another to optimize it to speed it up basically I guess you could say the learn find it more accurately right I mean again there's nothing new here that we couldn't ah you're right it's the cockatiels power that we have and players will have internal loops let's say and then they'll have an output that goes to another layer location of neural net versus what we've done you know with with other techniques in my world yeah I'm trying to optimize whether it's response to offer are they likely to defect how does not change the process that I take is not changed I just now have access context at environics analytics always building models and I I have my guys in the deep learning or neural nets techniques against that to see about getting anything anything in a more manageable manageable way and tell me is there what it is and explain that a little bit well I'll try I mean I've heard the fits all continues to learn which is in learning it's just again it's not it's an intelligent way of going through the math it's about going through it's about it is about you know what I mean consultants visit you said it's about you know using using techniques and as you know is the techniques that you're using so you know with decision trees it's going to be limited limited all or the solution is is learning in the way that it's the way since I think with an Iot data set and you can say an Iot based Ainsley getting you know often a time series based data but continuously getting data not then you need to also since we have this this this iterative that's continuously pulling the data twenty four hours a day seven days a week three hundred and where we were collecting a lot of internal data how does that shape things or is it really just the same where the data have what would you have this whole issue of of real so you know just just makes a lot more sense than or than the more birtles to be adjusted as we say on the fly you know with with with new data not about the type of data and the volume of data just you know in theory you would in theory would just make a lot more sense based and condition and then again compared to the other to the other techniques just to say yeah it is the other techniques said like our decision tree which is a Ponca it was done in the last year sixty seven percent you know still into the business people so neural nets thrown that's that's exactly it's because I I you know I I I'm doing you know the I think that's GonNa be the traditionally but in my world of customer analytics where you're creating variables the data scientists has to manufacture or derive a lot of these seven issue with the sensor data because you're working with the raw sensor data and then trying to see how and you have each pixel has edges and whatnot like there's not the raw inputs and using its using the layers to try and optimize those summarize it up to a customer level that's done in you know ordinary durable creations a lot more automated and so the same thing with Iot that made a lot of this variable variable creation You know whether whether risk to be extensive automation but again I think where where I I'm hypothesizing I think that may be a gap in the marketplace so he built his great tool if I had done nothing or if I use status quo because you know I mean these companies would if do that so you WanNa compare that status quo to like okay you're building a tool well how good is it that's compared to status quo and status doing some the traditional as you say traditional analytics they may may have just said you know what we like you could call that a simple formula simple act will occur so you want to not trying to slam all companies companies being you know the the the impact of these of these new tools which is fine I mean I've you know that's not new but I wanNa yeah okay let me let me let me summarize what I think you're saying up to this point because deep learning I'm probably missing a couple here they're all they're all analytics and mating analytics or statistics it's a way of using what we what we you've data because of its nature of the streaming of the streaming nature of it but one part okay there is something new there's a new technique under the hood is still using let's say was it that you were talking about the you article techniques in Ann Inaba away we may not know what's happening in those different layers by the other stuff you know sure we can call it a ad but release analytics statistics editor and utilizes the computational power that we have that we have today just to be clear the is is not new ai has been you know been been studied how we now can explore this you know and we now can really take advantage visit at mit what they're calling him a I is once we use today but just it's just again technique it's a it's a way of organizing and his way organizing and connecting and iterating upon these traditional other aggression regret while anyway regression was first used Winston Churchill he was a he had a real technical bent to him was started employed EXPEC back in two and after that it was a credit card companies the credit six fair Isaac has been around since the nineteen fifties is really really going bad but I think the work that was done at mit you're right they fumbling around with with the neural nets back back in that day into the to the notion of neural nets that they that that has and some people will define ai as trying to simulate but trying to and say okay it's although it's a net not nestle layers but that's okay and what's what's happened Ed Mit in the fifties or probably just can't one maybe two hidden layers most that's helpful I mean again we're just trying to cut through a little bit of this hype uh-huh maybe a bit of a stigma associated because it has been around for half a century shing learning but it still just cutting everything weeks again package and organize give you a higher confidence and a and a better output than what we could have done before but but again just I'm down the people that are for you I think this is old hat it's just nice to know that really really what we're talking about are the standard analytical techniques let's and let's say deep learning in that we can call that ai because it's really again BUSA that's that's certainly my perspective that it's technique is most actually you hit upon it like through the analytics data Lennox or data just identifying the business problem to optimize or to to to this is where we might employ artificial intelligence or a tool senate and more importantly and I've talked about this with you just about ten objects we're thinking about these projects or or exercise is you know in the past you know I've been around for a long time in the past I used to go to clients the data scientists has to be to be more knowledgeable a couple of courses on this just trying to organize data to create that analytical file Thir- which is used in that in that in that Thursday Ge- to help us come the tools so so it seems to me that again just thinking about technique of a I would probably make a lot of sense in that you can pipe that does that's why you're doing it and so you so I think people listening now is that I am not produces that being and we won't talk about external data but we'll just talk about the internal and it seems like because because of the definition of what we're coming up here or what ought not but it seems like there's a relationship there there is and if you think intisar scientists may be listening to this podcast will agree with me that most of down stage to organizing the data in the IOT framework in standpoint so I think it's I think it's mm-hmm which is on dealing with customers and consumers where you have to do that I did yeah I mean you're GonNa have to do that work up front but then once you've done that were paying and so yeah yeah that's that's a good point and then and then that eighty five percent to see if they can solve that that that that second stage because the you know ears but now the vendors and the companies out there you know we're talking you know I'm reading you know I you know I get all the you know the the the emails I'm I haven't seen you know given what I know I'm I'm I'm a little jaded a lot of that automation in terms of the data in terms of organizing the data but in my world now with suppliers they go we can automate all that for you and I'm going okay well show me and I have and I went through their through their paper basically all they're doing is writing and I'm going well that's no different than SAS SAS so it's I know into the long hard work that data scientists need to do to string date it nine ten files that I'm trying to group together into one analytical file that's used domain understanding that the data scientists needs to know you're gonNA automate goes eight or nine files put them all in push a button and you're GonNa get a nice analytical follow with meaningful traditionally in an Iot is more homogeneous that's right yeah isleta automating the variable creation process what you're really talking about is well you don't necessarily have to do so that you can stitch together the different sources of data right collapse these variables now we can bring this stuff together. There's a relationship between this make no sense so I guess you're trying to create a model with with independent variables is that which you then input to whatever algorithm you decide to use whether it on a platter to to whatever that the outwardly to the algorithm and six versus another type of technique that that's called a I that's a little bit that's more thing is automating that variable creation is pretty tricky but then going to Iot something that we could then streaming directly into these AI engine so to speak I put file which goes into the which goes into the algorithm so there's a lot more there's sweat and toil data scientists needs to employ really useful Richard can you tell us tell our audience where they can find out more about you environics analytics dot CA That's our website is the is our our our data products Is this from staff candidate again we've used candidates we've pulled together these sources and then we go in and then we will we what level of geography Bill also had done work where we in I live in a in a cluster that's you know mature award people that look like me that are part of that are part of that Different clusters data products represent one area. The second is awkward suit against the General Demographics of let's say the Canadian population so thirty area I mentioned is the reason they bought are these about my company the portfolio and segmentation systems but at at an individual level and do that themselves or they want a different point of view so you know can you help us bill again that that customize analytics customize analytics represents the you know the third area that sorta at this point it's going to be driven by customers I would say so muster murs everything so if there was a need for if we were dealing Oh company and they were trying to look with issues of compliance and they had let's say they had a lose certainly you know look at that relative relative to compliance so I think it's you say even build a better solution talked about hey I tried to build better solutions can is the opportunity with Iot in in a I I think it's a tesla that you are in real that you're bringing in that data whatever that whatever that frequency do you know to to pour over and put together and so maybe you need you shirow statistics or analytics with ai seem like a really good fit and that that intersection Komo has We've seen some of the being you know the given behavior it's also about uh of teacher engineering our very creation is going to be much more prevalent in my pain in the automation in terms of doing in terms of these tools working I'm going to say thank you and I appreciate your time okay. Thank living in two different topics each week if you prefer a more horizontal and structured off by completing the training and certification program or details Z DOT COM for an analysis of this episode links to

Iot Inc Iot Richard Komo thirty years eighty five percent sixty seven percent twenty four hours ninety percent fifty percent sixty years five years seven days
021521 Hour 1

Ace and TJ

26:46 min | 3 months ago

021521 Hour 1

"His your small to mid sized business ready for the inevitable rebound voice. Hunter dot com specializes in providing top level voice. Talent for all your video marketing e-learning an advertising needs. There's no better time than right now. To focus on increasing your customer base and corporate internal audio needs boy center dot. Com is a voiceover service with the world's best voice actors and actresses call voice center dot com at seven zero four six four eight nine thousand eight hundred or visit us on the web at voice. Hunter dot com tj radio family. And this is my song. It's called the week in review. It's a week's worth of shows summarized for you special effects and no auto to just me and my guitar performing for you. The bucks beat the chiefs in the super bowl. They were able to make a plan and execute. Finally a headline out of tampa. That's not about meth or a prostitute. People say tom brady is the greatest athlete. Ever were a lot of like from my point of view. For example i ate half a bag of frozen tater tots last night. And i feel like he did that to alexis got arrested in a tom brady jersey. It was a really unfortunate thing but she was way too small for the handcuffs so they use functions and a bit of stirring and his week's worth of shows. Summarize free you know special effects just me and my so performing for you. tj. And jody's new podcast debuts on monday which is fairly very highly anticipated. I wanna do a podcast with my girlfriend. But it's too hard to keep her inflated. Don't they'll cover a lot of different topics. I'm still a little unclear but maybe it'll just be them arguing which i feel like something. I'd like the year. She started calling him. Podcast boss and i think they're gonna have a ball. Don't worry jody. He super easy to work with. It shouldn't be trouble at off. Scholar week in review is a week's worth of shows. So we're is you know special effects no automation guitar. We attacked rob give out relationship advice. And when i say this. I mean no offense. But it was kind of like a teaching castilian. It didn't make any sense like that before the crime. Just the idea that you would teach gazillion with funny. Why is that. She is okay coming out to society very houses special jar. I think aces mom is listening today. Ma'am i want you to know that. I love ace and we were totally completely kidding when we said he smashed that picture on his face. Just a joke definitely didn't do that. She staying with ace and amanda for a couple of weeks and i know steadfast grouch. But there's nothing like returning from your honeymoon to find your mother-in-law on your couch. scholarly review. Swear shows summarize for you know special effects no auto disney and my guitar moment for you. I hope you have a great valentine's day it can be very special day. I'll probably get drunk rama noodles. I know your jelly. And that's okay. I mean i'm not happy being single. I happily date whomever but if you're gonna say something nasty. When i stop at arby's i'd rather be single forever. And jemima now called pearl milling company after the issue came to a boil not to be confused with earls drilling company which has nothing to do. It's causing a week's worth of shows. Summarize for you know special reform a good extra brilliance. Alexis de rob is the tj show. Wire the only people working in the building today. Dark when i got here and the only people working on the building they got a little a little roof project going out there. So is the engineer. Not even here rob okay. Well rob says no. And that's a little scary seeing. That's that's kind of a difficult situation. Because i would hate for his his Having to be here just because we're the only show the decided to work on prisoners day but then again it makes me nervous because we are here and there's no person to fix something that goes out in a catastrophic event you know of equipment. Failure and whatnot must be hopeful. Nothing goes out but if it does then we'll just go vacation exactly okay with them no parachute. We always worked to stay because we traded out for good friday. Denial gain by tastes. Good friday off and we always take off good friday godless their godless. I don't mind saying it. Oh the ones who don't take off. Good friday yeah. Yeah oh yeah he up. Although i will say this much. If i don't do something are our make an effort to do something Kind of religious on good friday. I feel like we have just were terrible. People took day off for no reason. You know what i'm saying. I always make that effort to do something like okay. So i want to take it off for no reason and feel like i'm just taking advantage of the day through a we in there for who who you talking about we. What would we take good friday off. They feel like we have wasted it and taking off for no reason. Yeah no i meant me okay. We as a collective took the show took the day off. But if i don't do something you know little extra religious on that day or spend have a discussion with my kids about something. It's like okay. That was the bad deal. Right should just work right then then In a by twelve thirty in the afternoon. Your new wife's doing tequila shots. I don't know. I don't know what good friday has. That's usually a tuesday or wednesday thing. I don't know they should goes like doing shots. Yeah because you know why fewer calories. Let's we cut down on the calories. I do a shot that way. We don't have all that other stuff in there that adds to the caloric intake because the Sorority of which she is an alum likes shots and then she'll do something order a margarita and like a single or double know. Just gimme a single skinny margarita. Extra shot and then after she drinks a little bit of shot in there and that way it's like a double an extra shot on the side way. It's like a double but she just doesn't have to have the extra calories involved just extra attitude after that loud mouth superior no calories extra attitude coming your way when you don't want your buzz to be fat. That's a good friday. Great friday because thank you. Does she do the The lime and salt part of it or does she know she was poor. The shot right into the she does tequila yes. She does not understand what she's the woman. I've pointed out i don't do that. What am i guess. That's what that's what women do. Yeah that's fun. I never. I was told when i i did that in college. Don't do the guys on. Just shoot the shot and go your business. So i never have to this day. Yeah There was a record scratch moment One time At a biker. Bar when we've when. I first started riding you know. I got my harley win. We ordered tequila shots. And i grabbed the lime wedge the salt. It was amount as well had address on at that point so i was just going to make fun of these throwing down there. Who needs this for me. Go got to make the point. That i don't need it. I used to come in my roommate. Used to drink tequila on the rocks in the military. Come in but what are you drinking. He said tequila is just you know glass in the middle of the afternoon today. Thank god bless you did it. Yeah sure about to pass out. You're pretty anything at this point. It's four o'clock on a tuesday crazy all the time. Well alexis since Your family is all from observator tequila mexican right. Do y'all have a special Liquor it's Mainly for comes out of ozone vidor. I don't think so. They probably make some prison juice. The joe oh man so delicious audio on a second has a very annoying person demanding an apology. Sit down and be down at the. That's my opinion. This person has no business demanding an apology from tom. Brady and a lady in grand rapids michigan. Who has started a support group for other women who share her name. Oh guess what her name that's is part of the show now by calling one eight four one to twenty three eighty five four. Act j. a lot of radio family members have been asking how they can support green kids. Well we have a special way. You can sport grandkids all throughout the year. It's ason. tj's grandkids. Five hundred at tj dot com. A special five hundred radio family members will donate monthly and if it's within their means the grandkids five hundred members will give five hundred dollars per year and be the grin kids five hundred. Join today and get more information at ace. Tj dot com or on the tj app tj show presents. Today's delicious audio com radios. This lady at apology. We've all seen the video. Tom brady tossing the lombardi trophy between boats during the tampa. Bay buccaneers victory parade. The other day and now lorraine grows wants. An apology ain't grows. Lorraine says her father. Greg was the master silversmith. Who crafted the i lombardi trophy and she blasted tom. Brady's trophy toss while she was talking to fox for in southwest florida. She says it was disrespectful. And it takes a lot of work a lot of hard work Lot of hours go into it. It just really upset me. That destroy fee was disgraced and disrespected by being thrown as if it was a real football. I didn't sleep for the past two nights. Because of this i was upset because i i know the passion that goes into this trophy and how my dad and all his fellow silver smits are so proud to make this. I personally would like an apology. Not just to me and my family and the other silversmiths To the fans what about the gold jones's the silversmiths and gold john's But you know what it's it's his fight it belong. I mean a bay buccaneers pay. A man wouldn't wouldn't go to expect. Mr toyota's daughter to come say. Hey you went over that pothole a little bit too hard. Exactly me you'll me an apology. You're not taking care of my dad's craft. I mean and the thing didn't hit the ground. Did she demand an apology. When gronk used it to hit a baseball a couple years ago and part of it fell off. I sit down ma'am please. You didn't sleep for two nights. Sorry i ended up in six days. Lady calm down. We're i mean come on what health can be offensive about everything else. Yeah yeah. I'm offended because my dad's assigned well who's just as much at fault. The stupid tv show goes out and finds this layer. You know tom. Brady has offended someone in our community next deuce channel full. Oh i it's a stupid. It's a great story. But who goes out hovers. This lady demanding polish. She sent like. I was very upset by two but to demand an apology from the quarterback is hilarious. So now there's a new support group that has been put together by lady in grand rapids michigan her name karen robinson and she has started a karen support group online for other women named karen. She wants people to realize that being a cairn isn't always a bad thing. Karen's have a lot to offer. It's a common ground. Create that positive. Social change sue actions words outreach. We were at a place recently in ice said chi. Please speak to your manager. My son was like oh mama you being a karen asking for a manager is not always negative. Exactly called karen's for the community. They share a lot of memes about karen's and stuff like that. But it's it's a place for all them to congregate talk about what it's like. What what life has been like in the last year since the karen thing is really taking. She really think. Do people actually hold it against somebody named karen i mean. Does everybody assume. Because you have the name karen that you're terrible person. You're a complainer. Whatever i just find that hard to believe the wind slang uses. Your name is something negative. I could see where that would be embarrassing. But if you're name's keirin and the way it's used in slang now. I don't even think that's the worst a case that this has ever been when someone's name become something offensive If you have to complain about your name being karen. I would say you find as many men named richard can and ask them what it's really like to have a name that people automatically turn into something negative and offensive excellent point. Tj excellent point. I mean you don't see a bunch of them getting around in a help group. Is there a richard support group online. Wouldn't google it work mayfield. Google it from home for work There is something that a lot of people do every day more than once a day in. We're putting you on notice now The younger generations saying That you're goofy an uncle. If you do this we'll tell you what it is next. This is the ace and tj show. This is the hastened. Tj show kind of nasty in a good way president's day. What watch this alone sometimes gang. The nation lowered the jin z. Crowd that would be the generation. Right below the millennials in age. They seem to be quite Whether jumping in at this point and making their mark into society as far as trends and they're throwing down what is cool and what isn't cool anymore and a lot of millennials are upset by that like just z kids are relentless with some of the things that Making fun of some of the things. That millennials say and i think the number one thing they make fun of that millennials say is i was today years old when i found out blah blah blah blah agencies all over the tick toxin everything. Make fun of that. Gen z ninety six and the mid two thousand So i don't pay attention. Because i don't care i do what i wanna do. You know i've been out of the cool class for so long. It's not even. It's not even something i deal with But the crying from laughter emoji Which is the laughing face with tears coming out of it. The has been deemed on cool by the jin z. One reason is so uncool. It's become too mainstream bra. According to the website emoji tracker dot com Which monitors mode emoji use on twitter. in real time it's by far the most used emoji and it's been at or near the top for at least four years Communist news network interviewed some young folks whippersnappers about the emoji and their responses are brutally honest. One seventeen year old said. It's quote bland and people his age. Don't use it and a twenty one year old said She didn't even know where to find it on the phone emoji. I don't even know what that is is that i can't have never caning it. I thought it was just like hundreds of parents section. Thought you could only do that from a jitterbug phone chicken now. I wonder if they're counting. Both the straight on face where you're laughing and crying and the won t tilted to the cy. Are they counting. Both of those as being on. Cool the tilted. This is even more uncalled. Is it i. I would say so. You know it's interesting as i've read back through my texts with your son. He doesn't use any emojis. Like it's i can tell like he just wouldn't Like an old person thing to do but Yeah you can learn a lot about what is cool. What's not cool. He's seventeen boys. Yes so. I tried to like skating later. I'm trying to offer him cigarettes. I don't i don't wanna smoke. I don't try no you uncle rica. What's up fellow teens. What are we get into tonight. Brad what if you would like to meet it with you and skate damn. I can't skate. I was just saying stuff. Man it me plugged in you know with the younger generation. What do they say when they're trying to make a joke though to let you know the nothing they don't say that's why it's so hard you're like oh man. That was dark to this. Is the guy in tennessee. Who has done something that i think riggins is going to do one day when riggins pass when he passed. Oh okay not one day soon. Hopefully this guy's done something will let me put it that way up next more. Act j. next is the tj show. guy in tennessee. He died he been passed all when he passed. He left five million dollars. And this is what i said. Regan's is going to do when he passes. He left five million dollars to his dog. Not don't even know how that works. I don't either of you see that all the time where leave it to the animal and there's got to be a human somewhere along the way that that's controlling the trust. Yeah so with be the attorney or whoever it is that the god trusts here and then it goes to whoever is gonna to take care of the cat or the dog. That's how it's worked when these stories have come up before Goes to the person take stipulated how the money is spent. I don't know or do they just get in other words. You say it goes to the dog. But if i were taking care of your dog in other words you're giving me five million that kind of thing right. But it's just the the the naming rights so to speak you get to say. Oh it's for the dog but in reality years giving the person five million dollars. I don't know maybe there are extra stipulations if there are okay. If they're extra stipulation it's a terrible thing to do and you're a bad person for as dome. Yeah if you have five million dollars or any amount of money that you leave to. A dog and that money could be used. I may even take care of your animals. No problem but if you personal opinion and and you don't do something to help people with that money and you leave it for a dog or the or the people are your family. Members are the people are people who are in need. Are you know. Donate it to a school or library. Whatever something that would help people or kids. I think it's terrible. Five million dollars will take care of a dog for many many lifetimes. Well i just look at it like it's your money. You can do whatever you want. It's none of my business. But i can also have the opinion that stupid so so i think it's stupid but you know a lot of people Have the money that they do things that i think stupid with. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to do it. Yeah i didn't. They should be allowed to do it right. I know terrible. A lot of people donate money to my stupid Political sides of things. I think that's i'd rather see a pack of wolves get it. Just eat the cash that would make more sense to me and be a better option but is it one last. Look at me thing. Is that what you're saying that it is. I don't know. I do think it's no. I think it's just kind of depends on how it's done for example if i died and i decided. Okay reagan's is gonna take toby the dog. But i'm gonna leave the money to toby. But it's gonna go to reagan's way of showing. Hey i really love this dog. Please take good care of him. I get that. Because i'm essentially all i'm doing is giving you five. Million dollars reagan's And i would take that responsibility very seriously. You rivelino them on. I know you would. But i'm saying that's obviously it's more money than you'll ever spend on a dog possible some essentially. I'm giving you money and saying hey take care of the dog that. I don't have a problem with that if it's doing that. But some kinda weird where the money has to be spent on the dog or you know it's comes with with with ways it has to be spent then. It's i think it's terrible because it can help people. So it is showy one last effort of of showmanship to look me dead. Like i i could have left it to rig but i left it to dog that shows how much i love the dog how much i care how unique i am. Where's the guy at tennessee tennessee. I don't know i. I don't have a problem with it like that. If he's doing it visas giving somebody money and leave it to the dog in other words. Take care of my dog for me. Okay cool that's i don't have a problem with either but it is. It's the truth that he's goofy kid calling the dog with them. Barbra streisand clone. That up. that'd be up. i've already looked into it. Fifty grand fifty grand in her dog anyway so sheesh about fifty grand a dog right now. You're thinking about it. I've thought about cap coming up on now. Trending with riggins alexis is gonna kill me. Because she's tired of this story but there was one last major update that i cannot wait to share with you about gorilla glue girl. Yes details now training less than ten minutes. Now you can text the tj show by texting act and your message to six eight nine three more as tj next.

karen tom brady jody Alexis de rob rob okay Hunter Brady alexis rob tampa Bay buccaneers tom gold john bay buccaneers Mr toyota gronk grand rapids arby jemima
From Chapo to Mencho: Mexicos cartels

The Economist: The Intelligence

23:49 min | 9 months ago

From Chapo to Mencho: Mexicos cartels

"Hello and welcome to the intelligence on economist. Radio. I'm your host Lane Green filling in for Jason Palmer. Every weekday we? A fresh perspective on the events shaping your world. Ten years ago the self immolation of a fruit pebbles in Tunisia sparked the beginning of the Arab. Spring. But now Tunisia. The most promising country for democracy in the Arab world is disillusioned and even nostalgic for the past. And Leon Fleisher was the pinnacle of his career as pianist when he gradually lost use of his right hand. From. Despair an unsuccessful treatments he went on to reinvent his playing around his left hand. Or obituaries editor looked back on his remarkable transformation? But I. In Mexico, the world of organized crime has moved on quickly since the capture of famed cartel boss Joaquin Guzman better known as El Chapo after decades at the top and numerous jailbreaks. The murder rate is still sky high but el Chapo seen a lower cartel has been eclipsed by another group. It only relatively recently appeared on America's list of drug traffickers put out by the Drug Enforcement Administration. This is the. New generation cartel led by a man named Miss Your. Survivors or as his heavily armed followers hailed him in a video last month. Menchu. Elementary might not be the most famous name in the United States and around the world from Mexico but the speed at which he has risen in recent years has been dizzying. Richard Answer is our Mexico correspondent. He has managed to take advantage of new landscape in the Mexican underworld where lots of small cartels are fighting one another his highest go cartel has risen. Expanded aggressively into New Territories around the country. and Richard, can you tell us a little bit about where it came from? How long has he been on the rise? Well he began his life as a migrant to the United States he went to California where he got involved in crime over there, he was caught selling heroin to an undercover police officer in San. Francisco in the Ninety S, he spent three years in a Texas jail before being deported back to Mexico. And immediately found his new cooling as a police officer in Kalisz go where he was he was hired seemingly with no problems. That didn't last long and very soon, he was joining a cartel, the millennial cartel elemental rose through the ranks of the millennial cartel, and then when that cartel started to cindy great, he won the the civil war that ensues and from there in the last five years, he's begun to consolidate the new empire under the name of the cartel. Give us a sense of what kind of reach this new cartel has and how it operates the in just about every state in Mexico with only a few exceptions, and of course, one of its main businesses is drug trafficking it sells drugs. To Americans who want to get high, but it does it in a slightly different way to previous cartels, less of an emphasis on the sale of cocaine, which requires trafficking cocaine from South America. Rather it was one of the first cartels to shift to supplying synthetic drugs, more powerful drugs like fence and all and Meth, and of course, that pivot occurred at the same time that a lot of Americans start getting hooked on opioids, and from this, they have needed to consolidate control or move that tentacles into some of the ports on Mexico's Pacific coast where these chemicals come in from China. In addition to this, they have diversified away from simply the trafficking of drugs they deal drugs in Mexico to domestic consumers, but they also rely on other techniques like the theft of fuel from fueled docks around Mexico, the extortion of citizens and kidnapping. Many cartels they will. Reserve some of the most grisly acts of violence for their fiercest rivals butts in the world of the Hunter Scott Cartel everyone is a potential victim. I will just give one example, but last year in the state of crews, there was a nightclub owner who refuse to pay extortion. So instead of receiving threats, personally his entire nightclub one evening was burned down with the doors locked from the inside and thirty two people were killed in that fire. So this is the kind of new paradigm that the Phyllis go cartel dragging Mexico into. So this group has been growing for years. Why are we particularly concerned about it now? It's. Not just the aggressive expansion of this cartel in so many states, it's also the brazenness with which is cartel defies the Mexican state in the recent summer months in Mexico. We have seen this on frankly unprecedented level. The most notorious of these moments was the attempted assassination of, Omar. Are Foot who is the top police officer in Mexico City one morning in a very swanky suburb of Mexico City two dozen government pulled up and sent one hundred and fifty bullets at his car. So it sounds like the strategy of capturing top bosses like El Chapo hasn't really solve the problem, it sounds like it may have even made it worse. Well. This is the problem. One of the lessons of the last ten to fifteen years in Mexico is if only, it was so easy that we could lock these guys up and cartels will go away. You look at the history of Mexico, and that just isn't true what tends to happen when you lock up the kingpin of cartel is the moneymaking infrastructure is still there but now it has an accompanying power vacuum. So all of these skies on the second tier starts a fight over the spoils that the kingpin has left behind, and that can often result in more violence rather than less because the underworld becomes an estate of violent flux that's not necessarily an improvement from the perspective of the lives of ordinary Mexican citizens show how is the current government planning on tackling this new threat the Modus Operandi of poss- governments ever since the drug war in Mexico really escalated back under the government of in Philippi Calderon after two thousand and six has been to take out this kind of kingpin who pokes his head up too high and starts getting a bit too aggressive. Now not only is that extremely difficult because elemental seems to be living a very reclusive life in his hard to track down but it's also not necessarily a guarantee of the peace. As you can see from any look back at what has happened in Mexico when past kingpins have been locked up, it hasn't solved the violence. And the current government is mindful of that. This kingpin strategy as it's called, has not been applied vigorously by the government. They do not have very many so-called trophies to boast of when it comes to victories against the criminal underworld in Mexico. The president on the rise Manuel Lopez door preaches a mantra of Brussels Nobel astles, which in English is hugs not bullets. So it's a kind of Pacific rhetoric that says we want to bring peace to Mexico. We do not want to fight violence with violence. We do not want to put out fire with fire and he's there is this kind of idea that if we break the cycle of violence, everything will be okay. Unfortunately, it's very clear that elemental has a mantra of bullets not hugs. And it's so something really has to give a lot of analysts are waiting to see if after this recent spree of violence from the Hellas go cartel something is going to change on the government side. Of course, drug trafficking is an international problem and there's got to be great pressure coming from United States which shares this great long border with Mexico to do something about this while you're absolutely right lane, you know the the DA has elementary right at the very top of its list of the world's most wanted fugitives. They describe the homeless Gokhale Dell is one of the five most powerful transnational criminal organizations in the world they have extradited elemental son elemental, and they will really want to see the noose tightening in the walls closing in around this guy, there is nothing that the DA would like to see more than elementary suffering a similar fate to El Chapo. With the prison escapes between. Will Richard Thank. You very much for speaking with us. Thanks A. There are a lot more analysis like this. Subscribe to the Economist to find the best introductory offer wherever you are just to economist dot com slash intelligence offer. WanNa get safely back to business during covid nineteen. There's an APP for that I audited by safety culture will help keep your co workers and customers safe. It's as simple safety checklist inspection at that anyone can learn within minutes. It allows you to do things like follow CDC guidelines, complete covid nineteen safety inspections, maintain an audit trail and stay safe. There are hundreds of preloaded checklists available to download. For Free, I ought editor is the world's largest safety checklist APP with more than six, hundred, million checks completed per year visit safety culture, dot com, download your free checklist today. Tunisia is no stranger to political disarray. It's governments change on average once a year. The last one survived less than five months. He shall machichi the country's newly appointed. Prime Minister will soon unveil a new administration, but it's formation has created plenty of conflict among the country's quarrelsome political elite. The political wrangling distracts from Tunisia most pressing problems and economic crisis made worse by Covid nineteen high unemployment and rising popular discontent. For many Tunisians democracy has not brought all that it promised. In December, it will be ten years since the Tunisian street peddlers set himself on fire in a single active protests that would ignite what was to become the Arab spring. Mixing with the smell of tick us. This is the first Arab Revolution of the twenty century more. It will be brutally suppressed. Tunisia's dictator Zeno Abidine. was forced to flee in January twenty eleven as protesters claimed victory. But now nearly ten years on the zest for democracy has faded. If you talk to Tim isn't today you'll find that many feel the revolution has improved. Their lives doesn't a striking nostalgia for. Nicholas Pelham is our Middle East correspondent I went to the starting point of the revolution itself to the cradle of the spring. It's a dusty town in the hinterland city bouzaid and it was there that Hamas? Who is a street peddlers at himself ignited the Tunisian revolution and it was just astonishing the degree to which people disenchanted with the results. You find graffiti on the walls with the word revolution mockingly written upside down and the ten year anniversary of. The revolution is approaching dates back to December two, thousand and ten and yet countrywide. It's really hard to find anyone who plans to celebrate but hasn't life impro-. Since the dictatorship fell at all, why would Tunisians fueled nostalgia for the dictatorship is true that in some ways life has greatly improved you get change of governments at the ballot box people have much more freedom to speak their minds, which is one reason why you hear so much disenchantment but most. Just revelation on its economic performance and they're it's failed even before the pandemic struck capturing income's down by about a fifth since two thousand and ten according to the World Bank. Unemployment has climbed and stock well, above fifteen percent many want to legal migration to Europe this series up four fold on last year, and there's just a striking disillusion with the country's politicians rather than tackle the economy they seem to be frittering is on tackling each other. Why is? That why is it been so hard to create a sort of stable and effective politics. Elections have left very fragmented political landscape in which there are many different parties, none of which can command an absolute majority delivers seem to be often pulling in different directions. So it's quite difficult to form a coalition on top of that you have external actors who are very interested in the outcome of this battle between the Islamist movement and the had, and it's secular. Egyptians the Murat is and the Saudis have all been giving of backing to the anti-islamist forces and then those are the most synthetic particularly, the Turks giving backing to the Islamist. That's also making for much more polarized environment and all that means that governments take a long time to form. Once formed tend to be quiet stable the last one lasted barely. Five months, you've got a new prime minister who's been appointed by the president. He's in the process of putting together a technocratic government which has been a kind of red rag is most politicians who feel this is deliberate ploy to exclude them, and of course, all of that is just paralyzing policymaking and focus on the essentials which writing an economy which. Appears to be shaped. The country desperately needs a package with Yarmuth to secure more loans and your aid. But in sort of frustration, the IMF is suspended talks when the last prime minister was replaced, the console shuffling of the deck is just really frustrating efforts to try and get the economy back to rights, and why is the economy in such bad shape. In part it's bad luck. The country was just beginning to recover from wave of terrorist attacks in two thousand and fifteen that pummeled the tourism sector. A non covid nineteen has struck and that's hitting the prime revenue streams, not just terrorism but also remittances and trade this neighbors because borders closed, and then of course, mismanagement increases the pain little development projects which. Begun under the dictator Zine. Limousine Ben Ali a frozen unions have probably tendencies strongest institution based me reform and protesters in the science also interrupting the flow of phosphates and oil which used to be sports and Kiesel says of revenue and the government is is on debt injections of foreign aid and tax hikes that only further Hubble business I guess this. Is All a far cry from what people had hoped for and felt they were promised when the dictatorship fell a decade ago exactly I met the veteran Islamist of Russia's new she and I kind of asked him what is your major after being at the forefront of teens in politics for the past decade and his reply was seats were sitting here they? Have survived unlike many of his counterparts across the Arab world who've been chased underground. But for many, they just look at what appears to be a party which is acquiring many of the traits of its predecessors. It looks like an old patriarchy Mr, Rashid seventy-nine. He's that the country's Islamist Movement for fifty years. The party's Congress stipulated that you'd only have two. Sons to serve back in two thousand and twelve those expired instead, he wants to cling on by changing the rules. So it really seems as if a leader who promised to sweep aside, the old ways of doing things is kind of falling into the same old bad habits and what about the other politicians in Tunisia would you describe in the same way? The new president is also hungry for power. He controls the army, the security forces and foreign policy, and he seems to have an ever-larger slice of executive power to he's bypassed parliament and the political parties by nominating a loyal Bureaucrat Machichi as his new prime minister and at the same time, there are other politicians who are trying to capitalize on this deep dissatisfaction most prominently is a beer mercy she ranked third in Bananas Dissolve Party and she's openly pride of it. She calls the Arab spring a spring of ruin she blames revolution on. The Europeans Zionists an although party only won sixteen seats last year she's a rising star among the middle classes who fed better under the old dictator. Bonaly. In fact, recent polls suggest that she's now the country's most popular politician. So it sounds like you have a struggling economy popular discontent and a political class that seems not only ineffectual, but also exhibit some of. The same authoritarian tendencies that the Arab spring overthrew where do you think all of this is headed on the one hand you have observers diplomats in the country who are struck by ten years on how resilient Tunisia has been. It is the only country which still flies the flag of the Arab spring whereas pretty much all the others have either collapsed into war or. Back into dictatorship and there's been very little. The bloodletting has characterized a clash between the old and new systems elsewhere in the Middle East that said, the unrest is mounting it serving as fertile ground for the likes of IBM Lucy, and most worryingly is the fact that there is no kind of rising discontent in the SAMBA. Can you quite used to seeing winters of? Discontent when the money runs out after the tourism season is over in the harvest is in, but this year's protests have come early and so the democracy that whereas the street peddler delivered when he softened related really seems in deep crisis. Ibm Lucie is telling her grown followers of spoilers that his memory and the revolution that he ignited should be cussed rather than celebrated. Nicholas. Thank you very much for speaking with us today. You for having me. Off. neon on Fleisher realized sometime in one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, three that he had damaged his hand. In Rome is the economists obituaries editor. He thought he had done it when he'd had no argument with the patio table and sliced his thumb but the thumb had seemed to heal and it was only a few months after that that he realized it was a sudden sluggishness in the right index. Finger. He had noticed the beginning of this when he was playing trills and triplets and these were a big component of the peace that had always been his great favored the browns fast cannon concerto, and so he was in despair. He had been brought up in San Francisco whose parents were hat makers. There was no particular musical family, but it was an upright piano in the house. His elder brother had piano lessons, and after his had gone out to play, the would go and play everything he'd had his brother do from. He was four years old. So you already had a great talent for the piano that was evident in his mother who was always keen to push him realize that he should be the one getting the piano lessons after that he did. was clear that he wanted to do nothing else in his life, but Clayton said tournament. His career being gang extremely well, just before the accident he had given concerts all over the. United. States he then gone to Europe and want a very important competition, the Queen and is of competition in Brussels. After his hand, it really seized up he was booked to go and to the Soviet Union which Ns days was the great apogee for all pianist and he tried to prove to George Shell and the Cleveland Orchestra that he could still do the tour but he had to do one performance and Chelsea said, no, you can't do it insent another pianist instead. So that was probably when he was at his lowest ebb but this accident, his hand and the incapacity was actually last thirty years. He did decide in the end that he simply couldn't continue trying to sink that playing music was his life. So he was teaching and conducting, but he was still not playing and for a long time, he actively resisted the left-handed piano. But he came to change his mind about. What he gained most thought was not any the Byzantine to treasurer. Single note said that to let the notes float as long as they needed to, but also the potency of silence. For many years, he didn't really know what had happened is hand. He found eventually that it had a name focal dystonia. Did headquarters which was over practicing. D tried absolutely everything acupuncture physiotherapy psychotherapy, and there is rather nice photograph of him letting Leonard Bernstein, poor, Scott, charm it just in case that would help. Why he was trying the different treatments for his hand, he did take a course of botox injections. The buttocks injections actually loosened up hand a little bit and he found that he could play to a certain extent. and. He decided that he would try to make two handed comeback. He had successfully. Over the terrible problem of being a pianist with only one hand. Rather than going directly into the public realm with his new and he went instead to her is study sat there in the sunshine, and as soon as he felt that his hand was really ready opening the PC. Played had to be his favorite one had always grown up with carried round with him like a talisman. And that was the Brahms Piano Concerto. So he sat down Cape. In Rio on Leon Fleisher. Aged Ninety two. That's all for this episode of the Intelligence. If you like us give us a rating on Apple podcasts Jason Palmer will be back tomorrow.

Mexico Tunisia Leon Fleisher editor president Jason Palmer United States Richard Answer officer Islamist Movement San Francisco Middle East Mexico City Europe Nicholas Pelham prime minister Drug Enforcement Administratio extortion el Chapo
The Leo Affects: High Powered Rock Band: Executive Order!

The Leo Affects:

28:30 min | 6 months ago

The Leo Affects: High Powered Rock Band: Executive Order!

"You know you guys don't offer any way you guys, you know. Yep. If you really want me to say hello, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Leo affects. So today I'm joined by a bunch of very fun and entertaining individuals. No pun intended and we're going to get to chat about them and their own new song that came out today. I talked about a turnaround. So I'm going to be releasing this interview as soon as we're done if there's no choice. Yeah. Yeah. Well, here we go. No pressure ladies and gentlemen, allow me to introduce you the band executive order consisting of Joseph. Jim and Rich how you doing fellows doing good doing good. Great. Fantastic great heck. Yeah, so let's jump right on into it and we're going to start, you know digging into the meat and potatoes of this what is executive order all about. Well where a band who loves to play music together, I would hope so yeah. Yeah, I mean really we are a band and we love the styles that we bring to the table. Each of us being from a a different era of Music me loving the the Motown background vocals Jim and in the you know, the sixties Blues Richard, you know as well just into blues and great guitarist and stuff. So so the biggest thing is we just wanted to do music without trying to do is genre, right. We just wanted to come in and put something on the table and and see what what what came out and the messages of our songs as I write the lyrics off. Over the place you have some really serious ones. You have some playful ones you have super sexual ones. So they just they just run the gamut and they're just talking about life experiences and what we've all seen and tell a story. That's awesome. And you know, you just said that the three of you are from different kind of generations of music, so I'm guessing that the three of you have very different artists that influenced how you got into music. Would you guys like to kind of go around the table and say who some of your your big influencers were I'll start off by started off in the nineteen sixty five playing. So we were that was actually Rolling Stones early days leading into Jimi Hendrix Santana and all that type of stuff. So that's my basis actually for you know, what what I started off playing, you know. Then later on getting into the Rock days with Grand Funk and those guys so, you know, no different wrong. But over Iraq, you know, that's right. Yeah, the the good stuff starts every weekend days. Yeah, I've got into I've got into you know a few different genres, you know over my playing career so far and but I started off as a kid just being exposed to the same music, you know that Jim was talking about you know, my dad was the biggest Rolling Stones fan. She could think of you had every CD and so I was hearing that as a little kid is hearing the Rolling Stones and Pink Floyd and Neil Young down by the Beatles and you know, all these these great artists from and I picked up the guitar later at about age Seventeen and got into that cage. Tik ROK music that I was hearing and also started getting into some blues on my dad turned me on to Stevie Ray Vaughan. That was a big influence on me and also got into them, you know, some of the eighties kind of music Van Halen was huge recipe recipe steady still thinking about him, you know, he was a huge influence of thumb and yeah even going up into the the grunge-era, you know, Nirvana Soundgarden all that type of stuff and played in a funk band for many years as well. So, you know getting away from the rock thing and playing some funk is a lot of fun too. So a lot of different influences. Yeah, you're all over the place. Yeah. Okay, Joseph. What about you? Yeah for myself, you know, I I grew up on oldies but goodies. So, you know if I'm from Los Angeles, so the station we listen to is k-earth 101. Okay. So, you know, I really didn't get into music. I just listen to these songs and I would walk around with the you know, the bathroom pretending I'm playing with these oldies but goodies singing no Earth angel songs of that nature and then I was introduced to Van Halen in nineteen seventy-seven and off my my world was blown. So I went from Motown to Van Halen just like overnight and I would say Van Halen was I mean, I studied Van Halen I loved the counter Melodies et cetera et cetera. So there are probably the single biggest influence. And then also you have Queen actually I get into Queen so recently Prince was a really wrong. Big influence the 90s. I had Alanis Morissette and then recently it's been like One Republic Twenty One Pilots the script even John Mayer big influence there seemed kind of you know, where I came from so but Van Halen, you know, if I had to pick one band where I had only can play one, you know band over and over again. I I still wouldn't go with Van Halen dead and that's biggest thing mean you have in common and it's been it's Van Halen with Roth not Hagar right? I mean for me, you know, not that bad off when so do all of those different influences and how you learn to play. Do you kind of play that way within executive order or did you guys come up with your own completely different sounds for this particular band? So I would say we came up with our own sounds and I for me personally, I think all of us, you know, we weren't trying to go in trying to sound like any specific sound like even though we're in each of these bands. I stopped trying to sound like, you know other guitar players a long time ago. Like I'm not trying to sound like Eddie Van Halen. It's just not possible. So that went in there they you know and got together with these guys and just tried to play like like me, you know what I'm hearing in my head. And so that's how I tried to help us have our own sound right hon. I would agree with that. We all came in with our all styles of music which seems like everybody has a lot of different styles song worked all pretty good because we would start off with primarily an acoustic guitar and Joseph would put play what he came up with and we dog I just got to jump in and everything would just throw it into a song. You know, we would add a chorus and a bridge and you know, and Of course leaky door which which is always great. Yeah. That's what we that's where we came from because I play a lot of funk and soul blues and all of that myself too, especially through this goal. They scored a switch me where the eighties they did a six-piece disco band traveling all over the islands. And you know for a year we were you know on the road in Hawaii, that's possible. It was good fun. Yeah and to it I thought about our time together is when we got in the studio though, there were no egos so we could really were really transparent. It was easy to play like if I sang and flat know cuz you know, we're just making stuff up on the Rack Em hit a bad bass note or Richard couldn't find the right guitar lick. We didn't we didn't really care. You know, we just if one person couldn't get into it. We just stopped dead. Then we said okay. Well we got something here. We numbered it and then we just go back later, right? Yeah, we just moved on to the to the next song and we started playing until we were done or off. If one person wasn't feeling it again. We would stop and I recorded all these things on our on the you know, the iPhone so we we had them. Yeah, but I just really appreciated that page with working with Jim enriched the transparency of the easiness. You just didn't I never worried about having a flat note or singing something stupid or saying something stupid and that's and that was great. Cuz then we found you know, the golden nuggets within all those recordings, right? Is that how you guys do with your like your creative song process? Like is this the norm you guys just sit down and just kind of rock out and say oh that was good. We should work with that or do you sit down? And say okay, here's what I'm thinking Rich. This is what I want you to do gym. I would like you to do that or how's that work? Yeah. I don't think we do. The latter should just kind of lay down our own parts and then we listen back through and see how it sounds and then change to be made then we would do so but that's kind of where the songs came from right? Everything is all of the head. So to speak. Yeah, although what got us together was you know, what brought us back together was writing the one-hit-wonder. So when we got back this last time, you know as a group we we did it right a one-hit-wonder. So I called them all up and I said, hey guys, you know, we haven't seen any each other in about a year. You know, we were all just doing life and doing our own thing. So what do you think about right in one hit wonder I got bills to pay guys. I want to retire misread one hit wonder you go. Yeah. So so what time? Add together. That's what I think also helped the way we're writing. So we weren't necessarily, you know, we didn't have a lot of things down. You know, we just brought our parts and pieces and public school went from there. Ya know a lot of artists like to do, you know metaphors and they have all these deeper meanings to their lyrics and things like that. Is that something that you guys did she would you can would you think that that was a way your songs come out was since I write mostly Thursday. I'll speak on this one. Okay, but I really most of my songs tell a story. So I'm not usually writing in metaphors. You can definitely create a metaphor like Wicked for instance coming out. When you Listen to Wicked. It could be Wicked fun wicked cool Wicked evil Wicked jerk Wicked chocolate, you know Wicked haircut, you know what I mean? So you can you can if you wanted to just read a little bit deeper same thing with all bleed red our debut release you can read a deeper meaning into that. But I I really focus on telling the story and then if it's just expands from there as as people are listening to it and that's that's awesome. I mean like one of our songs Richard really was the person who wrote most of it. It's called Some Like It Hot Now there you go. Some Like It Hot where it's kind of a sexual type of song Some Like It Hot. So when you read the song it's going to sound like mad dog. So it's pretty transparent. I think so. Yeah kind of like you were saying before like you guys just kind of lay it out there. That's cool. That's a good way to be. I mean life size fans read into the lyrics and you know, they they think about things that may not be there. So that that's cool. Yeah, but speaking of the fans I kind of want to ask each of you individually like if you had a fan come up to you and they said hey, I'm brand new into singing or playing the game or being a drummer a brand new but I'm trying to make this into a career. What advice would you give that fan? Well, I guess for me being a guitar player. I'll answer that. I mean I love teaching and helping other other players if I can, you know, I've just got all of this knowledge. I like to share but if I would give them any advice if they really wanted to make it I would say, you know, just do do the type of thing that really inspires you and you know, don't try to listen to what other people tell you that you should do. Just do what you kind of naturally gravitate towards, you know, lifestyle that is and and put everything you have into that. And I think that's a good way to become successful. And that's pretty solid. Yes, I would agree with that because you know, I do like the teach a little on the side not not very much but certain people and they have to have an idea of what they want to do that. You know, what style do you like? Like when you can you can turn it into your own style, but you home you have to have a style to start with so, you know, and if they're new it's tough because yeah, pretty much no one thing that's and Cool, and then I would say from a vocalist perspective. When I was in eighth grade, I tried to sing for choir. Anna choir teacher says you suck. You can't be on the choir, huh? So so my singing career started off in eighth grade with a little bit of a bump in the road. So after that, I just began to just sing and do the best I could to my own covers and you know covers and right and then my singing instructor when I was about nineteen, her name was Sabine. She taught people like the young for sticks striper back in the day there was wage cost of paper and she told me one one key thing. She said Joey that's that's what she called me cuz she was a grandma. She said Joey you need to learn how to love your voice. If you're going to sing. You just need to learn to love your voice. So I would say that to people who are aspiring to sing is learn to log. Of your voice now. I do compare my voice to other people's but I realize They're just awesome voice. You just listen to The Voice, you know the show and you're like, oh my God. Yeah, you know, so I would say that just learn to love your voice and not do you know the Practical work of seeing each day trying to to to learn your art and your craft but yeah, just learn to love what you've got cool. I like it. That's a solid so I kind of want to move shift directions a little bit. The reason you guys are kind of here other than to talk about your your past month where you came from is to talk about where you're going and as we talked about in the very beginning of the show, you guys just released a song today called wicked and you know, I've I've been privy to getting a little preview of that and I'm telling you this song is spot-on. I love it. I love the lyrics. I love the drums the melody all of it home. Sounds amazing guys. That's awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely in my question for you regarding this is on a scale of zero to awesome. How do you think a this song Stacks up to the other songs? You've done? Oh, wow. Go ahead Jim. Well, I think it's pretty awesome. But then again, I I think that of all the songs we wrote so yeah, you know, it's it's it's just a little different from the rest and it kicks some but I think you know, it's it's it's a Wiki. Yeah. Yeah. That's it's it's awesome for sure. It's an awesome song. I think it's one of our most unique songs. I think it's you know, if you listen, you know, when your lease the rest of the album, you know, you guys are here off of other stuff we've done I think it's one of the most unique sounding songs that we have the the vibe of it is very dark and mysterious to me and yeah, it's awesome for sure wage. Now if you asked our PR person Gina Snowden who handles all our PR she would say Wicked is the absolute unequivocal in a song on the album and it's going to be the one-hit-wonder and it's going to take us to two places. That's our PR when we when we had a test group listen to all of our songs, you know, all of them Wicked came in the top three. Oh, wow. All right, you know so so it's really it's a great song. I love it was the most difficult song for me to sing in the studio in a recording studio. I was coming off a cold and then I had to hit all these Wicked notes harmonies. Yeah. I developed a new word for harmonies. I call them now scarman. He's scary harmonies cuz the producer Michael cutting he's dead. Joseph I want you to do this harmony. I think you got to be kidding me. I don't hear it. I don't hear it in my head. It's not making sense. And then we had to figure out all these funny unique ways to get it in my head cuz I'm a lead singer, you know people who know how to do Harmony. That's a gift. I mean, it's an Incredible Gift of seeing so I had to pretend each of my harmonies was Toledo vocal because it was a it was a just a my my head could have do it. So so yeah. Yeah. I mean, I love Wicked how long it would be it would be in my top ten how you guys feeling right now knowing that you know, you got your song out and people are are checking it out. How you feel about it? But it's good to have that happening. I mean, it's great to get it out there. You know, it's taking a while. That's right. All good things come to those who wait, right? That's right. And why did you guys decide to go with a different sound for this song? You know, it kind of comes back to our original how we were recording things. We weren't trying to pick a genre or style of a song so long. I kind of I would equate our album. Not that I want to say. We're Queen because they were incredible. But if you listen to all queens albums, they never really focused on a soundtrack The only thing that was unique with queen was their vocals when you heard him, you know who they were but they played all sorts of different styles of genres of songs off and I think that's what we kind of captured as well, you know on our album and wicked so I mean, I wrote Wicked when I was watching Supernatural which is a show on CW age and so I was there with my daughter she was playing her Xbox and I was just strumming along with my guitar drinking tequila as I I do and wage. Just a show where this demon came out of purgatory and took over people's bodies. And then you would want to call this person completely evil. But then you realize somebody trapped her down there for years and then you're like well, oh my God, who's right or who's wrong? It's a supernatural has the tendency to to make something you would automatically thinks wrong good and vice-versa like sometimes to hero was you know, Satan and you would agree with what he did all of us at that, you know within the structure and Faith finds of the the show. But anyway, yeah, that's where kind of the initial riff came home. And then I gave it to Jim and Richard and they listen to it and they were like, well, that's the same thing you play you played the same thing over and over again, so we need to reduce some stuff so they took that song and make sure Into what it is, but I think it kind of naturally evolves. You know, we kind of let it evolve on its own and so we had that initial riff that Joseph was talking about and because it was kind of the same thing going took out the song is kind of droning on that same riff. We did a lot of layering and we did a lot of effects with with the instruments as at least the guitar to make it interesting. So you'll hear and when you listen to it, you know, listen for all these things going on. There's you know, different swells of guitars coming in and out, you know, using different effects, there's doubled and tripled guitars and wage in Parts in the background and the bass and the drums are awesome and that just kind of happened in the studio as we were kind of building the song and just letting it kind of evolve right got real Dynamic go from from up to just a bare whisper. Yeah the bridge. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Yeah, the bridge also have to say if you listen closely to the Dead. Ridge and when you hit the vocals, you're going to hear some some fun. Hi. Hi Parts. Nice home. Well, what's next what's next for executive order? Where are you guys heading to now, you know, you guys just came out with this awesome song. What's next? Well, I know like we were talking earlier before the interview where we're trying just to do some things some acoustic versions of things and put them on YouTube. So just people can meet us. Yeah and see what we're trying to do and cuz as when a cobra that makes it hard to to go out, but I do know seeing some of the like all bleed red has a 1.3 K hits on the lyric video on YouTube and well, you know, we're seeing some of the analytics that's just where I live in my work as well day. The job but yeah, we have a lot of analytics. We're we're r e e Popping right now in Switzerland actually really popping in Brazil, you know what I mean? So how's that? I'm watching these analytics it kind of gets exciting cuz I thought well, obviously if we played live and when we play live again, we do want to do that, you know, we want to go to where people are listening to the music. Absolutely. So I'm watching just watching a lot of that and we're a hawaii-based band. So obviously, you know, our first gig is going to be in Hawaii. We're going to start there. That'll be our our home base. And yeah, so that's that's what I see in our future and you know, Jim and Richard can answer for themselves. Of course. Rolling with Joseph where we go we have you can release the CD and the first things we should do. But yeah, yep, you'll hear you'll hear more from us soon. So, you know those of you guys listening to this, you know, make sure you follow us, you know, wherever you know Spotify or YouTube or Facebook or you know, whatever you guys use and you'll hear about our next next songs that are coming out we have we recorded a whole album. So we got a lot more music to share with you guys and hopefully we'll have some like a Super Saiyan song videos of us performing and you know actually getting out on tour one day, that'd be awesome and then absolutely would that actually leads right into my next question is, you know, you social media websites where can people find you Well, our main website is executive order music.com. And then that's just a generic website and on there. It just has all the links, you know, you got off the buttons at the top you have Facebook. You have YouTube you have iTunes you have Pandora any social media you're on you just go to our website click there and take you off. You know our website obviously gives you a nice bio of who we are some some cool pictures. We're we're we're dressed up in suits and the backdrop is all Hawaii. So everything is downtown Hawaii. So it's really really a fun and cool so you can get everything there. And obviously you can buy the song on iTunes that's where you can actually purchase everything everything else is streaming listening to it. But if you wanted to purchase it so you can take it on the run and you know, go wherever you can get it on iTunes. Fantastic guys. I want to say thank you so very much. For coming on the show today and talking to me about your past and executive order in general and you know, really just putting some Spotlight on Wicked cuz I really like it. I think it's a great song. I don't know if it's going to be your one hit wonder because I think you guys are going to be here to stay. Sorry to tell you like that. You gotta have us interview. We would love to do an interview for every single thing if you wanted us. Hey, that'd be awesome. I'd be down with that. So thank you again, and thank you to all the listeners who tuned in to check this out. Make sure to get over to those social medias and off iTunes and get your hands on this track. You're going to love it and keep an eye out for big things to come. So thank you all very much and we'll see you next time. Thanks Ray cock

Jim Joseph executive Van Halen Richard Hawaii YouTube Eddie Van Halen Stevie Ray Vaughan Jimi Hendrix Santana Iraq Grand Funk ROK Motown Alanis Morissette Facebook Joey Beatles
 Finding dark patterns online: Chips with Everything podcast

Chips with Everything

27:11 min | 1 year ago

Finding dark patterns online: Chips with Everything podcast

"The the garden say Ian I. Hey you recently paid for subscription that you never knew you needed oh wanted I didn't need needed or wanted. I signed up for something completely unknowingly an only found out sometime later and I notice money going out of my account. I just trace back what I probably did and I've had to kind of infer why did and I think I've looked at the sort of process since and really easy to sign up for certain services on certain popular shopping websites without wanting them because of the way the websites are designed signing up for a free trial on a website sights and finding out a month later you paid however much money to actually subscribe is more than just a neat trick that some get caught out by every now and then it's an example of a dunk pattern. Dot Biden's are into fish designs that get users to make make decisions that really Benford de Creator of the interface but not necessarily users themselves in other words dock patents are tricks on websites that make you do things that you didn't mean to like buying or signing up to something this week we've teamed up with our Sisters Science podcast science weekly to find out just how common our experiences are their whole industries more argues sorta based on it so gambling is full of examples that involve essentially trying to encourage people to lose more money is that for the good of them and the good of society probably probably not but it can be extremely elaborate and sophisticated user behavioral science in those sorts of ways we find out how these companies play on our psyches to pinch pennies lost what we as consumers can do about it. I'm Jordan Erika Weber Annoym- In sample and this is science with everything they make it really hard to unsubscribe coil all the time especially for some magazine and also I think Oh yeah magazines the worst. Also I think like <hes> on your bank. In is the science editor of The Guardian. I'm one of the presenters of science weekly quickly and we thought it would be best to start the podcast with the low down on dark patterns this Roy what they are commonly used that sort of thing. The title of the paper is docked Biden sets so I spoke to our national author a P._H._d.. Student in the Department of Computer You too science at Princeton University he recently co wrote a paper titled Doc Patents at scale findings from a cruel of eleven thousand shopping websites. He and the rest of the team conducted a large scale study that looked at fifty three thousand is in product pages across those eleven thousand sites and the gophers sturdy really wished to see who are the websites indeed business specifically that are currently using these patterns and if there's a way we can show them to users and try to understand the different techniques that are being used the before we get to what he and the rest of the team found. I've compiled little test to see how savvy you are about the dot patterns you might come across these days okay so I know you're very aware of hidden subscriptions. But what do you think sneak to basket is what it says and I had this happened. The other day where I went to check out on shopping site online and there was something in the boss Guy for what on earth even is that it was something that got put their presumably okayed at some point but not in a very clear way so I just had to delete it from a basket so sneak into basket is a pattern where website adds an in addition with product to your cart. Even if you did not request for one oh you've bought. I don't know a T._v.. Here are ten pounds worth of worth of special cloths for cleaning that TV. No one needs them. It's this extraneous stuff for a two year. Guarantee that over runs over the same period as a guarantee you get with the product anyways that sort of stuff that I find particularly annoying because it's completely unnecessary and would you say you've ever been affected by visual interference or. I don't know what that one is. I mean I'm sure it's always when you hear about donor letters. <hes> visual interference is a pattern that uses style and visual presentation do really steer a user some certain option so you might see a big button and a really small but in that sitting somewhere and you're more likely to click the button that you see more prominent see now when you get a pop up that says do you want sign up for this thing and the yes is huge and it's in bright green and then the no is very very small and it's kind of gray a and you can miss it. If you blink exactly how I signed up to the thing I mentioned at the beginning of the program because the button that I clicked on was they're really prominent one and the same color as you think is just for checking out but it turns out his checkout plus some evil stuff as well <hes> okay it lost one. Have you ever questioned the origins of testimonials you see on websites. You're purchasing from <hes> constantly but that that's one of those real lives sort of things which has crept online as well isn't it whenever you see sort of build a builder with a Flyer Flyer comes round and there's all these testimonials on it from sort of Gareth number fourteen. There is no number fourteen and you know it's it's all that sort of P._r.. Is presented as testimonial question them all the time. Statistic Mornings of uncertain origin are dot back on where a website shows you testimonies from their users but doesn't really make clear where these testimonies are sourced from for example in the list of such patents in our study. We found that many websites it's used H._d.. millennials that are often also available on other websites. It's really not clear who came up with these are who these users are fabricated so I think I know more about the different types of dark patterns but how did our nation the team go about about finding these patents in that paper we focused our efforts on shopping websites and in order to detect patterns we built a little bought that word wizard shopping websites discovered product pages and try to mimic. What a user do on these websites that is out of order to go to the garbage and attempt to make a purchase of course we did not actually make purchases and then what would capture all the little pieces of information that saw during this process and we then use this information and alleged using basic machine learning techniques to discover which of these instances might correspond to dock guidance so this bought analyzed fifty three thousand product pages from eleven thousand websites which took less than a week in total from this they discovered more than eighteen hundred instances of patterns for more than twelve hundred shopping websites which is about eleven percent of those examined? That's the law but is not isolated to shopping websites in fact the behavioral insights team in the U._K.. Has just written a report port about something caught sludge sludge and harks back to something called nudge changing people's behavior by making it easier for them to make decisions supposedly in their best interest using tricks from behavioral economics and psychology kinds <unk> decisions anything really from making healthy choices to paying taxes for instance. If you haven't paid your car tax you'd receive a letter with a picture of your car saying pay your tax or lose your Ford Fiesta or whatever it is you happen to own and it really worked act as he pointed out earlier online commerce sites and now using these same techniques gates this often to make us part with our cash so rather than nudges code sludge unless spoke to one of the authors of the report I mentioned before his name is David Halpern and he's C._e._o.. Of the behavioral insights team let's really like the dark shadow notch so you can use nudges and hopefully a good reason to help people and save more or make healthier the choices in life but you can also use it sometimes for Dhaka purposes adding an extra frictions to make it harder for people to find out what the right thing to do to get trapped into deals that don't really suit them and we tend to call that sludge so who uses these techniques and generally water they four so they used quite widely commercially inaugural. They're becoming more prevalent with digital sort of optimization in some ways the normally used by commercial players in order to well for economic advantage to catch people the classic examples of people often misjudge though they take up subscriptions thinking they'll read a magazine but then she they don't and they end up with twenty. They never get around to counseling them so they're quite widely used and you know as you quite widely used in media not least print media but they're also spreading into other forms in online and more complicated varieties is this is really about selling stuff or does it go broader than that. So that's very interesting question. It definitely does go broader than that. I mean just as nudge has a narrow a broader definition so dislodge really so the narrow definitions normally as adding a friction particularly to exit some kind of subscription etc but there are clearly deeper examples and like I mean behavior science like any form of knowledge can be used for good or bad so there are whole industries you might argue sort of based on it so gambling is full of examples that involve essentially trying to encourage people to lose more money is that for the good of them and the good of society probably probably naught but it can be extremely elaborate sophisticated user behavioral science and those sorts of ways you talked about how some of these manipulations maybe that's too strong a word but how some of them can evolve quite complex behavioral science. Can you unpick some of that. I what it's the behavioral science going on here. What are the sort of psychological weaknesses that are being exploited the cognitive biases so I'm GonNa Classic? One is that was cool. Present bias we make a decision in the moment and we miss predict our own the idea so we think to take a simple example. We think obvious looks great magazine all sign up to Owen. It's just I can try it out for free for you know whatever a few months and because it might be written in small print even if you are aware of it you actually elite misjudge weather a you use the product but also that you misjudge how easy will be to exit so that will be just a classic simple example kind of present mice and so certain kind of discounting future but there are many other sort of a varieties of it simple example would be <hes> what we call <hes> attentional wars which are basically capturing people's attention so if a design or platforms that designed to keep you scrolling keep you clicking keeping you active of course fundamentally commercial reasons normally to essentially get you to click through on adverts but they're very very sophisticated in their design. They can be literally quite an addictive. We actually did some work online behavior basically our brains go on autopilot when it comes to instant instant gratification so how websites take advantage of that offering fast delivery double the price or using time limited offers and countdown clocks these just some of the ways in which companies tap into our cognitive biases to make us part with our cashed rushed and they're so effective even David has fallen foul of two and self from his quite years ago but hurrying back to King's cross actually in some comes along and they say Nick Personnel Bunch of flowers and Doohan they say oh it's for the little children and and before you know you're wherever you doing mostly you reach in your pocket and you give them some money uses them what's good recipro- st someone gives you something very powerful. <hes> she feel to give something back and after thinking Oh. Why did I just do that so yeah? There are all around us most people. I'm sure have many examples after the break we look ahead to the future when experts expect these patents or sludge techniques will only become smarter one of the really really key questions is <hes> particularly take that experimentation even machine learning now. It's a massively powerful tool which can be deployed against the consumer in the vendors interest and you have to say what's on the side of the consumer steamrolled the citizen whereas the machine learning to help the citizen consumer get what they might want and we asked what we as consumers can do to fight back. We'll be back in a minute. You're Jewish teaching. It's time to focus the mood in the U._k.. Right now it seems to me is a huge tensions nations and contradictions and emotions feelings about our past. We're not thinking very much about the future. Today and focus is the new daily podcast from the Guardian. Join me a niche Gristana for the best stories from our journalists around the world subscribe. Now today and focus from the Guardian welcome back to science with everything I'm in sample and I'm generic Weber <hes> this week we're looking at various techniques that websites use to get consumers to make decisions that might not be in our best interests. We spoke to David Halpin an hour Nash Mathur about the methods e commerce issues and the psychology behind them but if we understand that these techniques exist what are we still full for them in order to be able to Davis says it's because our brains have evolved taking mental shortcuts so the the basic if you like foodline if you WanNa put it negatively or actually in elegance of human cognition if you want more positively is that a lot of human behavior is driven by what are known as shortcuts or mental heretics so we just don't have the time time to process every kind of choice or option in the world and we are brains of literally evolves to try and figure out what's going on as rapidly as possible so easy mental shortcut so a simple example would be we estimate the probability of something occurring but oh how readily we can think of an example of that and so that's why people often tend to think flying aeroplane is dangerous because you can easily think of an example of at crushing even though statistically is not very likely so it works in crude level but is also subject subject to sort of systematic error and that can be exploited by a vendor or someone else in order to kind of foolish. If you like get something which we don't want. I mean every junk dumplings that would be around gambling when people quite widespread now you'll see <unk> adverts for gambling which are playing on our quite skillfully are here sticks where we estimate how likely something has to happen and so people then are essentially getting there a little bit wrong in a systematic way which can be exploited and in order to get people to gamble more than they should do get their estimate wrong. They haven't thought about the other possibilities of how this game went play out and so they think they're more likely to win. The naturally our design Davis says that vendors are getting being better tapping into our psyches by experimenting with different methods and seeing which tactics most effective it can be one of the things that online has definitely cranked the doll right up on is experimentation and empirical methods so again that isn't by itself a bad thing you know we've ourselves worked on campaigns to help people more successfully quit smoking redesigning websites to make them more effective and they enable you to be formatting to test test essentially parallel versions on a random basis to see what's more likely to get someone to do a certain thing to click through to purchase. Something is the more than one in ten economic exchanges pretty quite a lot more than that now in the U._S.. Are <hes> part of an experiment just massive volume which is occurring and online is essentially ubiquitous so it means that yeah you can keep tuning in tuning in tuning and now also not only in general terms but you can personalize it. You can work out what for a given individual profile the most likely to respond to so one of the really key questions is particularly when you take that experimentation and even machine learning now it's a massively powerful tool who'll which can be deployed against the consumer in the vendors interest and you have to say what's on the side of the consumer or the citizen whereas the machine learning to help the citizen consumer get they might want and what's more. It's not always the shopping websites themselves that create the dog patterns are Nash and the team found third party entities embedded in more than ten percent of the websites breath meaning. The websites aren't necessarily in control of the thought patterns impacting their customers. How do we know who to blame? If we feel we've been conned so I think in this instance responsibility falls on the shoulders of both the first and third parties <hes> and it also depends in in many instances on the specifics of how the third party is being used defunct parties website <hes> for example if a fresh party is using the capability third parties provide to generate fabricated messages responsibility falls on the fish party said. In cases where the third party is just creating these messages for any fish party in a fabricated manner than definitely responsibility falls also on the third party if the vendors are getting better at making us part with our cash. How do we get better? Ah Holding onto it his David again so I think there are several levels of the end in relation to the Bible incites team ourselves have rather aloft checks and balances were co owned still by the Cabinet Office who have come on board with literally written into our articles of unity social impacts of so. We're kind of tighter but real question is is more generally I think for society how would we draw those lines and they're really important well. I mean the first line advances some forms of education or just making people more aware aware what these biases are and people do learn evolve a good simple examples of work on defaults or famous. Everyday example now is auto enrollment for pensions. Montana million people have signed up as generously as a good thing and even people who opt out say absolute right thing to okay and by large majority but you can also people learn for example on light sites now is check. What's being clicked already and on Click? There's some airlines are pretty famous examples of this and it does seem like people have learnt you know somewhat so people can learn to become more aware of their biases and we're big believers what's called a shrouding revealing to consumers the relatively g like sludge nurse of different products or services like social media so that it changes consumers behavior media enough to retail the market and the final one. I think which is maybe less disgust. It's actually governance changes so in in the key players themselves so that the users can shape the nature of the product and that's she's not just talking about proudly in some cases you're talking about how people interact with each other the nature society itself so it does become quite deep an important thing and you mentioned in your report actually that there could be other ways of raising awareness of this kind of thing you mentioned <hes> a sludge judge prize we are. Maybe the Guardian would like to sponsor it. That's right we already we kind of rather nice eventual the pave exchange were policy makers and sort of leading academics get together and we've always had kind of prizes prizes for you know nudges have particularly positive impact or most interesting research but yes this year for the first time we're looking at whether to have a S- Lodger Ward <hes> the big consumer group or someone bearing in mind we will get seed for doing so but we do think is worth just highly making a little bit of reputational risk to companies excessively engage in these techniques. I love the idea of a sludge prize. What I don't understand is wild any of these techniques illegal and it's interesting our Nash makes a similar point? The responsibility of protecting consumers should not fall on consumers themselves there are there are videos consumer protection authorities here in the U._S. in in Europe and elsewhere that should really be looking into these patterns <hes> to regulate them and to go after the ones that are particularly problematic for users what they are now. Lawmakers are actually looking at this in the U._S.. For example senators says have drafted a bill that could make some dot patent techniques illegal and give the Federal Trade Commission more authority to police how sites are using them but some say it'll be difficult to pass. Even though we know the patterns exist I asked about this and his explanation is one. We hear a lot on chips. The technology is developing more quickly than the law. Several of these phenomena are more recent in the online world and shopping websites and social media platforms so I think people are still beginning to realize realize the kind of homes <hes> these patents actually causing Lee to having said that I think there is an increasing awareness among senators for example here in the U._S.. Where there is a proposed bill that bans the use of these patents called the direct so I think over time we will see <hes> increase legislation and regulation against the use of these patents right now we are still in the point where we are trying to understand the effects they have and document what they look like? Say Obviously advertising has often used deception option right. We can trace it back through history things like advertising cigarettes with people who showed no physical effects from smoking a pack a day. Is this not just the kind of digital evolution of that kind of. Thing like just the whole appetizing industry just uses these kinds of tactics because they work and that's just the natural progression of this kind of thing yeah. That's a good question I mean we have seen cases in the offline world where you have in your neighborhood drugstore door that game should be going out of business but really is open all year long I think would really differs between the offline world and the online world here is the scale at which this can happen and the magnitude with Richard can affect consumers humor's so in the digital world your credit card straight to your online account and it's very easy for you to make payments and get into a hidden subscriptions for example <hes> that's not as easy in the offline world I would say so. It's really the magnitude agnew in the ease at which the Internet has made it easy for advertisers to implement these practices. It sounds like lawmakers. Don't have an easy job ahead if indeed this is possible to place. How does David feel about the future as he optimistic? I think I am optimistic but trying to be realistic too so they will science not going back in its box. It's a very very powerful force both commercial players and that she governments hopefully for good are using this stuff and the real question people need to be asking is who nudges the dodgers so what are the countervailing forces which is why in the end. I think we have to look at the governance arrangements. Am I most optimistic that she about you can redesign in markets in order to try and tilt them to compete on things that are good rather than bad and that's that's not really been used anywhere near as much as it can be an everyday examples not just online you go into a supermarket. Okay you are barraged by lots of very powerful forces to try and affect your savior. You're very much more likely to buy things at the end of the aisles or by the checkouts right so all those forces being deployed to to help you make a healthier choices or less healthy choices. Do you know do you personally know the difference between which one's which supermarkets when you walk into them are prompting you generally for healthier choices or less healthy choices and I'd say the answer answers probably not so you can see. There's an opportunity to Africa platform basically which is cheese your supermarket on the base of it'll make you you know it'll it'll nudge you towards healthier greener choices rather than worse so so that's what I think is a great deal of power for if you like a certain kind of consumer activism and indeed intermediate platforms are using stuff as a force for good rather than bad in order to essentially make markets compete on a on a good basis roundabout mom. Do you feel optimistic Jordan. I think that we are getting more savvy about these kinds of things especially not to be <music> biased against the elderly the younger generation I think like lands these things more quickly I think you held a interesting point and important ones well because I think there are some people in society who will be be hit hard by these things and others. I think some some people be tricked more easily than others as already happens right but I think this wraps it all up another level. I mean that won't go online because he's just too afraid of what will happen and is probably not a bad idea. Yeah terrifying defined thing to think as you're excluding yourself all that other stuff but I'm not particularly optimistic. I think there's always this case of by the web but these techniques are so powerful you know the techniques used on gambling sites are apparently really clever. If if you have that kind of persuasion if your mind I think you can be completely exploited and when emotional stuff starts coming in which is coming in on these websites yeah picking when your your lowest ebb when you're most likely to make a purchase or when you're most likely pay ten more that starts getting really horribly manipulative in my view. It's really hard for me to be optimistic. I think you make a really good point there about certain segments of society being more affected than others but I think that the the work that people like Aaron ash doing is is really helpful you know because these are obviously it's really clearly delineated these different practices and if we can highlight them in that way then people will be able to understand the more easily.

The Guardian Jordan Erika Weber Annoym David Dot Biden Princeton University editor Ian Roy Sisters Science Department of Computer Davis Nash Mathur Africa David Halpern Gareth Dhaka Federal Trade Commission dodgers
 Dark Patterns: the art of online deception  Science Weekly podcast

The Guardian's Science Weekly

26:45 min | 1 year ago

Dark Patterns: the art of online deception Science Weekly podcast

"The the garden say Ian I. Hey you recently paid for subscription that you never knew you needed oh wanted I didn't need needed or wanted. I signed up for something completely unknowingly an only found out sometime later and I notice money going out of my account. I just trace back what I probably did and I've had to kind of infer. Why did I think I've looked at the sort of process since and really easy to sign up for certain services on certain popular shopping websites without wanting them because of the way the websites are designed signing up for a free trial on a website sights and finding out a month later you paid however much money to actually subscribe is more than just a neat trick that some get caught out by every now and then it's an example of a dunk pattern? Dot Biden's are into fish designs that get users to make make decisions that really Benford de Creator of the interface but not necessarily users themselves in other words dock patents are tricks on websites that make you do things that you didn't mean to like buying or signing up to something this week. Science weekly has teamed up with our sister tech podcast chips with everything to find out just how common our experiences are their whole industries. You might argue sorta based on it so gambling is full of examples that involve essentially trying to encourage people to lose more money is that for the good of them and the good of society probably probably not but it can be extremely elaborate and sophisticated user behavioral science in those sorts of ways we find out how these companies play on our psyches to pinch pennies lost what we as consumers can do about it. I'm Jordan Erika Weber. I'm in sample and this is science with everything wittingly signed up for something they didn't mean to you and they make it really hard to unsubscribe while all the time especially if it's a magazine and also Oh yeah magazines the worst also I think like on your bank account Jordan Erika Weber presents the Guardians Chips with everything podcast cost and we thought it would be best to start with the lowdown on dark patterns yes so what are they how commonly they used that sort of thing. The title of the paper is docked Biden's so I spoke to Aruna Matha a p._H._d.. Student in the Department of Computer Science at Princeton University he recently co wrote a paper titled Doc Patterns at Scale Findings from Kroll of eleven thousand shopping websites. He and the rest of the team conducted a large scale study that looked at fifty three thousand product pages across there's eleven thousand sites and the gophers sturdy really wished to see who are the websites in detail business specifically that are currently using these patterns and if there's a way we can show them to users and try to understand and the different techniques that are being used the before we get to what he and the rest of the team found. I've compiled a little test to see how savvy you are about the dot patterns you might come across these days okay so I know you're very aware of hidden subscriptions. But what do you think sneak to basket is what it says and I had this happened. The other day where I went to check out on shopping site online and there's something in the boss Guy for what on earth even is that it was something that got put their presumably arcade at some point but not in a very clear way so I just had to delete it from my basket so sneak into basket is a pattern where website adds an additional additional product to your cart. Even if you did not request for one slide oh you've bought. I don't know a T._v.. Here are ten pounds worth of worth of special cloths for cleaning that T._V.. It's no one needs them. It's this extraneous stuff for a two year. Guarantee that over runs over the same period as a guarantee you get with the product anyways that sort of stuff that I find particularly annoying because it's completely unnecessary and would you say you've ever been affected by visual interference or don't. You know what that one is. I mean I'm sure it's obvious when you hear General Letters. Visual interference is a baton that uses style and visual presentation do really steer a user some certain options so you might see a big button and a really small button that sitting somewhere <hes> and you're more more likely to click the button that you seek more prominent see now. When you get a pop up that says do you want sign up for this thing and the yes is huge and it's in bright green and then the no is very very small and it's kind of gray and you can miss it? If you blink. That's exactly how I signed up to the thing I mentioned at the beginning of the program because the button that I clicked on was the really prominent one and the same color as you think is just for checking out but it turns out his checkout plus some evil stuff as well <hes> okay. It lost one have have you ever questioned the origins of testimonials you see on websites. You'll purchasing from <hes> constantly but that that's one of those real lives sort of things which has crept online as well isn't it whenever you see sort of a build a builder with a flyer it comes round and there's all these testimonials on it from Gareth number fourteen. There is no number fourteen and you know it's it's all that sort of P._R.'s presented his testimonial question them all the time S- additional moneys of uncertain Orgin R. A. Dot back on where a website shows you Shimon yields from their users but doesn't really make clear where these testimonies are sourced from for example in in the list of such patents in our study found that many websites used used H._d.. millennials that are often also available on other websites. It's really not clear who came up with these are who these users are fabricated benefit degree so I think I know more about the different types of dark patterns for how did our nation the eighteen go about finding these patents in that paper we focused our efforts on shopping websites and in order to detect patterns we built a little bought that word wizard shopping websites discover product pages and try to mimic what a user do on these websites that is added to guard go to the garbage and attempt to make a purchase of course we did not actually make purchases and then what would capture all the little pieces of information that saw during this process and we then use this information and alleged using basic machine learning techniques to discover which of these instances might correspond deduct guidance so this bought analyzed fifty three thousand product pages from eleven thousand websites which took less than a week in total from this they discovered of it more than eighteen hundred instances of dark patterns for more than twelve hundred shopping websites which is about eleven percent of those examined. That's a law but is not isolated to shopping websites in fact the behavioral insights team in the U._K.. Has Just just written a report about something called sludge sludge and Harks back to something called nudge changing people's behavior by making it easier for them to make decisions supposedly in their best interest using tricks from behavioral economics and psychology the kinds of decisions anything ready for making healthy choices to paying taxes for instance. If you haven't paid your car tax you'd receive a letter with a picture of your car saying pay your tax or lose your Ford Fiesta or whatever it is you happen to own and it really worked as you pointed out earlier online commerce science now using these same techniques gates this often to make us part with our cash so rather than nudges code sludge. I spoke to one of the authors of the report I mentioned before his name is David Happen. He's C._E._O.. Of the behavioral insights team let's really like the dark shadow notch so you can use nudges and hopefully a good reason to help people save more or make healthier choices in life but you can also use it sometimes for Dhaka purposes <hes> adding in extra frictions to make it harder for people to find out what the right thing to do to get trapped into deals. Don't really suit them. We tend to call that sludge coach who uses these techniques and generally water they four so they used quite widely commercially inaugural either becoming more prevalent with digital sort of optimize ation in some ways the normally used by commercial players in order to well for economic advantage the catch people the classic examples of people often misjudge though they take up subscriptions thinking they'll read a magazine and she they don't and they end up with twenty. Of them and they never get around to cancelling them so they're quite widely used and you know as you quite widely used in media not least print media but they're also spreading into other forms in online and more complicated varieties is this is really about selling stuff or does it go broader than that. So that's very interesting question. It definitely does go broader than that. I mean just as nudge has a narrow an a broader definition so does dislodge really so the narrow definitions only at adding friction particularly you know to exit some kind of subscription etc but there are clearly deeper examples and like I mean behavior science like any form of knowledge can be used for good or bad so there are whole industries you might argue sort of based on it so gambling is full of examples that involve essentially trying to encourage people to lose more money is that for the good of them and the good of society probably probably naught but it can be extremely elaborate sophisticated user behavioral signs in those sorts of ways you talked about how some of these manipulations maybe that's too strong a word but how some of them can evolve quite complex behavioral science. Can you pick some of that. I what it's the behavioral science going on here. What are the sort of psychological weaknesses that are being exploited the cognitive biases so I'm GonNa Classic? One is that was cool. Present bias we make a decision in the moment and we missed predict our own behavior the idea so we think you know take a simple example. We think Oh this looks great magazine. I'll sign up to Owen. It's just I can try it out for free for you know whatever a few months and because it might be written small-print be even if you are aware of it you actually Louis Missouri judge whether a you use the product but also that you misjudge how easy will be to exit so that will be just a classic simple example kind of present bias and kind of discounting future. There are many other sort of a varieties of it basically our brains go on autopilot when it comes to instant gratification so how to websites take advantage of that by offering fast delivery double the price or using time limited offers and countdown clocks these just some of the ways in which companies tap into our cognitive biases to make us part with our cashed and they're so effective even David has fallen foul of one or two and self remember quite here's go but hurrying to kings cross actually in some comes along they say a bunch of flowers in your hand and they say oh it's for the little children and before you you know you're wherever you're doing almost you you reach in your pocket and you give them some money. He uses what's called Recipro- St someone gives you something very powerful. She feel to give something think back and after two thinking Oh. Why did you do that so yeah? There are all around us most people. I'm sure have many examples after the break we look ahead to the future. When experts expect these dock patents awesome such techniques will only become smarter? One of the really key questions is particularly when you take that experimentation even machine learning now it's a massively powerful tool which can be deployed against the consumer Pam in the vendors interest and you have to say what's on the side of the consumer or the citizen whereas the machine learning to help the citizen consumer get what they might want and we asked what we as consumers can do to fight back. We'll be back in a minute stopping Jewish teaching something. It's time to focus. What's the mood in the U._K.? Right now it seems to me is a huge tensions and contradictions and emotions and feelings about our past and we're not thinking very much about the future today in focus is the new daily podcast from the Guardian join me a niche Gristana for the best stories from our journalists around the world subscribe now to today and focus from the Guardian welcome back to science with everything I mean sample and I'm Erika Weber this week. We're looking at various techniques that websites use to get consumers to make decisions that might not be in our best interests. We spoke to David helping an hour Nash Mathur about the methods e commerce us and the psychology behind them but if we understand that these techniques exist what are we still full for them in order to be able to Davis says it's because our brains have evolved. Take doc mental shortcuts said the basic if you like foodline if you WanNa put it negatively or actually in elegance of human cognition if you're more positively is a lot of human behavior is driven by well known as shortcuts so mental hero sticks so we just don't have the time to process every kind of choice or option in the world and we are brains of literally evolves to try and figure out what's going on as rapidly as possible so easy mental shortcut so a simple example would be we estimate the probability of something occurring but how readily we can think of an example of that and so that's why people often tend to think flying aeroplanes dangerous because you can easily think of an example of it crushing even though statistically it's it's not very likely so it works in a crude level but is also subject to sort of systematic error and that can be exploited by a vendor or someone else in order to kind of foolish if you like something which we don't want every junk dumplings up would be around gambling people quite widespread now you'll see adverts or gambling which are playing on now quite skillfully are heuristic where we estimate how likely something has to happen and so people then are essentially essentially getting their back a little bit wrong systematic way which can be exploited in order to get people to such you gamble more than they should do. <hes> get their estimate wrong. They haven't thought about the other possibilities of how this game went play out and and so they think they're more likely to win than they actually are designed. Davis says the vendors are getting better tapping into our psyches by experimenting with different methods and seeing which tactics and most effective it can be one of the things that online has definitely cranked crank the doll right up on is experimentation and empirical methods so again that isn't by itself a bad thing you know we've ourselves worked on campaigns to help people more successfully quit smoking redesigning websites to make them more effective effective and they enable you to be formatting to test essentially parallel versions on a random basis to see what's more likely to get someone to do a certain thing to click through to purchase. Something is the more I'm one in ten. Economic Exchanges require a lot more than that now in the U._S.. Parliament experiment just massive volume on which is as current online is essentially ubiquitous so it means that yeah you can keep tuning in tuning in tuning and now also not Tony in general terms but you can pass analyze it. You can work out what for a given individual profile that most likely to respond to so one of the really key questions is particularly when you take that experimentation and even machine learning now. It's a massively powerful tool which can be deployed against the consumer in the vendors interest and you have to say what's on the side of the consumer or the citizen whereas has the A._M.. Machine learning to help the citizens consumer get what they might want and what's more. It's not always the shopping websites themselves that create the dot patterns our nation the team found third party entities embedded in more than ten percent of the websites meaning. The websites aren't necessarily in control of the thought patterns impacting their customers. How do we know who to blame if we feel we've been conned so I think in this instance responsibility ability falls on the shoulders of both different third parties <hes> and it also depends in many instances on the specifics of how the third party is being used in defect parties website <hes> for example if a fresh party is using the capability third parties provide lied to generate fabricated messages responsibility falls on the first party said in cases where the third party is just creating these messages for any fish party in a fabricated manner than definitely did responsibility falls also on third? Good Buddy if the vendors are getting better at making us part with our cash. How do we get better at holding onto it his David again so I think there are several levels of the end in relation to the Bible insights team ourselves who have rather aloft checks and balances were we're co owned still by the campus who have come on board with literally written into our articles unity social impact stuff so we're kind of tighter but real question is is more generally I think for society how would we draw those lines and they're really important <hes> well? I mean I advances some forms of education or just making people more aware of what these biases are and people do learn and evolve a good simple examples of work on defaults or famous. Everyday example now is auto enrollment for pensions. One ten million people signed up as generally seen as a good thing and even people who opt out say out so right thing to do by large majority but you can also people learn for example on light sites now is check. What's being clicked already and on Click? There's some airlines are pretty famous examples of this and it does seem like people have learnt you know somewhat so people can learn to become more aware of their biases. We're big believers what's called shrouding revealing to consumers the relatively g like sluggishness richness of different products or services social media so that it changes consumers behavior enough to retail the market and the final one thing which is maybe less Scott. It's actually governance changes so in in the key plas- themselves so the users can shape the nature of the product unless you're not just talking about probably in some cases you're talking about how people interact with each other the nature society itself so it does become quite deep and importantly thing and you mentioned in your report actually that there could would be other ways of raising awareness of this kind of thing in new mention a sludge prize we are. Maybe the Guardian would like to sponsor it. That's right <hes> well. We already we. This is kind of rather nice event cool. The PAVELIC's change were policymakers and sort of leading academics together and we've always had comprises for you know nudges have particularly gill positive impact or most interesting research but yes this year for the first time we're looking at whether to have a sludge award <hes> they were big consumer group of someone bearing in mind we will succeed for doing so but we do think is worth just highlighting making a little bit reputational risk to companies excessively engage in these techniques. I love the idea of a sludge prize. What I don't understand is? Why aren't any of these techniques illegal it is interesting are makes a similar point? The responsibility of protecting consumers should not fall on consumers themselves right there are there are <unk> prediction authorities here in the U._S. in in Europe and elsewhere that should really be looking into these patterns <hes> to to regulate them and to go after the ones that are particularly problematic for users. Now lawmakers are actually looking at this in the U._S.. For example Senators have drafted a bill that could make some doc patent techniques legal and give the Federal Trade Commission more authority to police how sites are using them but some say it'll be difficult to pass. Even though we know the patterns exist I asked about this and his explanation is one. We hear a lot on ships. The technology is developing more quickly than the law. Several of these phenomena are more recent in the online world <hes> in shopping websites and social media platform so I think people are beginning to realize the kind of arms <hes> these patents actually causing Lee to having said that I think there is an increasing awareness among senators for example here in the U._S.. Where there is a proposed bill that bans the use of these baton called the Detour Act so I think over time we will see increase legislation and regulation against the use of these patents right now we are still in the point where we are trying to understand the effects they have and document what they look like? Say You know obviously Chrissy. Advertising has often used deception right. We can trace it back through history things like advertising cigarettes with people who showed no physical effects from smoking a pack a day. Why is this not just the kind of digital evolution of that kind of thing like just the whole appetizing industry just uses these kinds of tactics because they work and that's just the natural progression of this kind of thing? You know. That's a good question I mean we've seen. In cases in the offline world where you have you know in your neighborhood drugstore that games should be going out of Salem business but really is open all year long. I think what really differs between the offline world and the online world here is the scale at which this can happen happen and the magnitude with Richard can affect consumers so in the digital world your credit card straight to your online account and it's very easy for you to make payments and get into a hidden subscriptions for example <hes>. That's it's not as easy in the offline world I would say so it's really the magnitude and the ease with which the Internet has made it easy for advertisers to implement these practices. It sounds like lawmakers. Don't have an easy job ahead if indeed this is possible to place police. How does David feel about the future? Is he optimistic. I think I am optimistic but turn be realistic too so they will science is not going back in its box. It's a very very powerful force. Both commercial players has actually governments. Hopefully generally for good are using this stuff and the real question people need to be asking often is who nudges the dodgers so what are the countervailing forces which is why in the end. I think we have to look at the governance evidence arrangements. I'm almost kwbz to get she about you can redesign markets and in order to try and tilt them to compete on things that are good rather than bad and that's that's not really been used anywhere near as much as it can Sunday an everyday example just online you go into a supermarket you know you are barraged by lots of very powerful forces to try and affect your behavior. You're very much more likely to buy things at the end of the aisles or by the checkouts right so all those forces being deployed to help you make healthier choices all less healthy choices. Do you know do you personally know the difference between which one's which supermarkets when you walk into them a prompting you generally for healthier choices or less healthy choices and I'd say the answer is probably not so you can see there's an opportunity to Africa a platform basically which is choose your supermarket on the base of it'll make you it'll it'll nudge you towards healthier greener choices rather than worse so that's why I think is a great deal of power for if you like a certain kind of consumer activism and indeed into media platforms you're using stuff as a force for good rather than bad todd in order to essentially make markets compete on a on a good basis runabout one. Do you feel optimistic Jordan. I think that we are getting more savvy about these kinds of things especially not to be biased against the elderly but the younger generation I think like lands these things more quickly. I think you hit on a interesting point and point once well because I think there are some people so in society who will be hit hard by these things and others. I think some people be tricked more easily than others as already happens right but I think this wraps it all up another level that won't go online because he's just too afraid of what will happen and and is probably not a bad idea. What a terrifying thing too because you're excluding yourself from all that other stuff but I'm not particularly optimistic? I think there's always this case of by the web but these techniques are so powerful. The techniques used on gambling sites are apparently really clever. If you're that kind of persuasion if your mind I think you can be completely exploited and when emotional stuff starts coming in which is coming in on these websites picking when your your lowest ebb when you're most likely to make a purchase when most likely pay ten or more that starts getting really horribly manipulative in my view. It's really hard for me to be optimistic. I think you make a really good point. There about certain segments of society be more affected than others is but I think that the the work that people like Aaron ash doing is really really helpful because these are obviously it's they're really clearly delineated these different practices and if we can highlight them in that way then people will be able to understand the more easily many thanks to both our guests this week they were David Halpern an hour nash mother. The producers were Greg Jackson and Daniel Stevens ever. I mean sample get by.

David Halpern Jordan Erika Weber Guardian Dot Biden Davis Science weekly Nash Mathur Ian Department of Computer Science David Aruna Matha Kroll Princeton University Africa Gareth Federal Trade Commission Dhaka
#2 Mental Coaching Basel with Kristyna Brabcova

Help'n'Trade podcast

28:37 min | 1 year ago

#2 Mental Coaching Basel with Kristyna Brabcova

"Hello and welcome everyone to our next episode of Health and trade podcast. We'll give space to enterpreneurs and there startups. Today's guest is Christina. I'm Christina China in our meet up in Basel and I'm very happy that she join me today to introduce own Venture Christina stages yours. Hello Stephan thank you for having me and how everybody. I'm really pleased to have met this group and now to be able to introduce what I do you shared with you all greater here percents. What is it exactly? What is your winter so I'm doing a mental coaching? And the way I do it is that I use the rush method. which is a method developed into Czech Republic? And it's a very gentle But fast and efficient fishing methods with which again solve really any problem you dealing with so to make it a little bit more understandable when when me experience something or some situation with people or together as problem is because we get bad bad feeling emotional or physical or both. That's when you when you realize that this is a problem. Otherwise it would be Justin Austin Notre occasion or maybe even a happy occasion. It is obvious to different people experienced different situations or different encounters encounters as a problem. And the reason why is it. We all have different programs on which we operate and in this method we work with these programs so we specified the emotions. That that you have in your problems go after two thoughts which caused these emotions and then look for the origins and the origins since we find in the childhood we Dick Little Bit into your your child family and tone. We basically look doc forcing occurred onto the sixteen year of age and be cleared there. We cleared them by acceptance. And as a result you know trolleys these programs and as a result Your problem now is solved because basically what you do is set to cancel auto to neutralize triggers. Then make the problem happen in nowadays outlet Bit Understand Fund fascinating. I mean trying to understand it. Maybe I'm technical thinking person I'm trying to understand. It really sounds like you're writing a code for your life and at certain times you do bog because you encountered something. There is something that triggers negative emotions which tend to actually influence your future perspective of things or understanding of situations making a negative emotion at the end of the day again which just breaks system for you. You can't continue like that forever. It he did. It is because we basically live the consequences of our previous decisions. It may be that a situation that you lived in one family with tiffany. Several siblings was negative for you. We are sibling. Probably was totally oblivious to it and another sibling thought Oh there was even remember. That was fun one one situation family three siblings totally different experience for each item and there. Let's say that you're the one that thought this is not fun at all. This actually painful and there. You made a decision. Maybe you were five year old. Will you made a decision. All dissertation I'm going to behave this way. Wait to protect myself from hurt from it hurting me again and what happened instead. You basically do create a code which you try I to work with over and over and over again in your life with a very different release but still the same problem and when you speak to people they often complain about similar things again and again day just encounter damn at school at work in the family but when you crack down to what really borders them. It's one or two things okay. I really simplify it right now but it may be dead easy and what we actually do with. This method is said I it it breaks free. You know it makes you free to look at a situation or or things from different point of view because once you don't operate according to this program he can just step aside and say hey if you look at it from this point of view it is actually okay and if you step Moore's I'd easing. Oh dessert quite funny. You know or or maybe you don't even see that thing happening happening. This is why some people can work with money and other people can't for some people. It's a great challenge. It's a great fun and other people get completely crashed because it stress and all it means for them. It's fear of losing money. This is easy. Exactly exactly why why certain people look at things very positively an astronaut and some people you think more fruit their life totally with lightness and others are just trying very hard and maybe are very successful but suffering all the way interesting. How did you come up with it is I mean how did you even get to to to multi jeter's to step towards mental coach Inc.? My Path was dead. I I started in Belgium. I lived there for twelve a few years and since I started in tourism and hospitality I started to work for an airline company I really had lord of fund their the airport and then all the traveling and it was certain time I thought highs this possible that one can have so much fun and still earning money you know but then I guess the lifestyle requires you to have very Very demanding lifestyle for your for your body for your balance that you often have lack of sleep you have to do with millions and millions of people and I guess throughout my life. I started to be also so more sensitive towards what I really need and I start to feel more like a person who needs more privacy more time and let's say bobble for myself and I started to feel that this actually giving out all the time Really tires me too much and so together. It came down today surgery to have health problems and so on and then it ended up with a with the occasion of some tax and a addresses airport. And then I decided I need to quit the job because I was basically all but ill. I did not enjoy it anymore at all and then I I found this method was following normal. Let's say psychotherapy But after half year of therapy a helped me each time. Let's say for few days after but didn't really move anywhere a great step and then by coincidence which obviously you if you really observe your life that things are not coincidental at all. You just need to write timing and the right. You know the moment for you to get ready I did you meet it in life I found this method and I used it two years for basically healing myself and and that was it. I thought I need to hear myself but all I found was that with better health. I got the confidence I suddenly started to feel. Feel free to do all the hobbies I wanted to do when I was a child and thought I can't do that and nobody would ever tell me Yukon on. Do the ballet. I didn't even dare to ask my mom. You know so all this brought me to the situation where now here in Brazil everything as possible. Hustle and I know that me work myself and thanks to this method. It's as well that I created myself the right space to do what I love to most so into. I'm having a blast right now. I'm really fascinated and the whole story is very motivational relational. Especially when you realize that you actually had a job which enjoyed but then things develop towards negative and then came breakpoint. You kept fighting. You wanted to have the solution for your own problem and you realize that and then you came with a solution for yourself which now you're trying to apply to help other people and I think that's very motivational to be honest. I'm very happy that you hear on the podcast. That's great to hear so. Tell us about current state of Your Office of Your Mental Coaching with in Basel. How does it work for your here? It works well. I must say I do sometimes pay more attention to my Hobie since away work and a Like to say I mean it's a job it's not as I didn't even have time for my for work but it's also would I believe in. I do some promotion and so on but kind of enjoy working organically so if what what presents itself right now are all kinds of activities are. Let's say in the category of hobbies. I enjoy them fully and when declines presumed ourselves I totally go go and focus on the clients. Mike capacity is not full full. I could totally have more clients but It's all right so I'm really happy that Eh Matt today here Because I know that this method is not a very spread in insulin. Probably nobody knows them knows it. Except for for some of my clients that I had are from the Czech Republic who not methods from over there and I think it's totally worth to spread right to the society because I just see result myself and I'll be totally happy to to help anybody who's interested it with it. Yeah otherwise would I do. I work sometimes in Czech Republic unauthorized. I work via skype. Or what's up on that matter. It's totally totally flexible. I speak five languages. It's working well but it could could be busier in your search for. I suppose you also look for automatic which could help you? You also research in that field. There are various methods that you can apply to yourself to help yourself getting out of the struggle. Do you see them now. As as an alternative Richard can also offer or do you see them more as a competing alternative. I don't really believe in competition such as this is best and this this is worse and so on I've been doing yoga for longtime Dan I decided I want to be Yoga. Teach into the moment where I realized I don't want to do yoga. Got Any more at that time. It was the perfect thing for myself because I was obviously not ready to deal with it on the mental level. What I needed was daily training? That would change my thoughts. Put me into different. Mindset kicked me physical energy and kind of a reset to do to balance between my work and school and only later was was when I found the method it was as I said kind of coincidence but I Did Not Research Different Mental coaching. I was going for half year due to the psychologists were Who was offered to me by by my work? And then I found this video about this method basically on Youtube when I was looking for I believe I was probably listening to some speeches of at Catala so that was the the way I was going but that definitely did not do any research. Kind of awards disconnect. Give me an is better than that. I just really believe that there are so so many of these type of pallets or this type of therapy and people always tried to innovate. But you know what it is. It's he's usually just taking aspects from already existing things in giving them a different code and it's fine. You know I believe in in sharing and when you put something out there a new ready to earn money with it you should also be ready to people take it an if you want to call run away with it or I call it take it and use it and please be free and always ready to help you and share information. I have and you know there's also other type of fatty did you get back. It doesn't always need to be money so competition. Yes no I do not push this method. That really helped me. But I'd not push it through the fraud of anybody else I offered. If you WANNA listen you listen if that resonates with debts fine you welcome and if you're up to something else feel free to go and dissenting us. AC It's I can see a very positive person. I like it very much. It is definitely easier to go over days if you're a positive thinker and you see things as opportunities than just burden or or challenges all the time. It's it's great to see especially because all your motivation comes actually from your own experience. That makes it so much more valuable. Because I'm not sure actually upcycle a psychiatrist. Do therapy themselves bill. Yeah I've heard. Now that they are they have some obligatory ones in three months. I never studied psychology. So I don't know I can only imagine what they go through and they definitely know much more Apollo functioning of our brain and so on what I did not really enjoyed going constantly somewhere and not really reaching results belts ride now. That was a bit frustrating for me on a long-term because so I don't want to just do something like yes some things you just do because because you enjoy them but when I have a problem I do not want to be healing myself. Or let's say I said English I. I don't WanNa want to be in the process of doing our to do it like if you I was gifted itself but if you're going out to a newer going to pick the mushrooms mushrooms are we going to pick mushrooms or are you going to find them. Get them had them new boss. EC Two that's also the the mindset did do you get on different activities and everybody should realize it whatever you want to achieve. Are you acting out of three. You don't feel potential Ari acting out of fear. Are you decided to get it or do you just do it because someone told did you saw or because you think you should do it because everybody else says it would you achieve with it. Why do this that? Why do you go to work? Why do you you go to any classes after work? Why do you go to the bar tonight? Would you want achieve it. That's all broken down towards mindful living often when I speak to people and I asked him back. Why don't you start with enterpreneurship? And usually the answer is that I mean from my understanding what I can. I understand from what people tell me that. They don't really put themselves achievable goals. Ahead of them. Don't even try to reach those goals. It usually speak so I am dreaming dreaming about it but a dream. Don't come to be reality unless you act upon them. That is I think. Also what you mean that you really have to go for achievement. At the end of the day is not just about. Yeah I'm going to the forest mushrooms actually going and get those mushrooms. That's a very important point this true and if you progress this nature which I'm a master at just be mindful to do procrastinating and do not complain at the end of the day. You know you couldn't do it. Of course you can watch the net flicks and you can do all many other things than what you're supposed to do to achieve your calls at work which is fine. We've dead makes you happy at the end of today find and you can probably complaint yourself in the mirror but if then makes you upset set the end of the day and you still go to the bar and meet your friends and put that bucket of upset over them. It's your problem. There's definitely and wondering you were saying that this whole method you want to achieve something at the end of the day and you're going after it. Is there something like a minimum number of hours hours that people spend with you from experienced and then you know that usually after one week of sessions we have certain progress or does it have to be more long term when when you find out that the person actually has way deeper troubles and we need to keep talking to to him and going more deeper into his young age and find out what is it. Exactly what is the burden is really interesting. And thank you that for this question because I see a lot of people thing if I start some therapy happy in needs to be some long term thing so already the mindset is it's GonNa take long and I should not expect the result right away and this method is total opposite. I give to my clients for one session three to four hours and look sometimes. We're ready after two in half and if they don't don't have anything else they can deal with visa goodbye Cheddar if they need five hours to stay good diet give them the five hours we deal. You would the problem they come with so there is no need to dig into your childhood and try to speak about everything and everything to happen to good thing engaged to realize what you want to deal with. But even then sometimes people my clients and many and say I'd like to deal with this and that and then miraculously something happens on the way On their way to my to my office and they're like you know I wanted to talk about this this it's now happened and really upset me and we end up talking about that and we figure that that was the real problem that was really waiting on them and then when let me check with the original topic that they wanted to deal with. They're like oh it doesn't bother me anymore so there's no need to wash Owner dirty clothes. We deal with the problem. You have their refund the origin we deal with it as easy. So you own schedule. Any set of therapies. Because again they will be wrong. Mindset if you come Anita. I sold my problems within these four hours. Steny most likely do it. If you set five therapies ahead then you end up lots and you will make sure that they would need the five therapy speakeasies case that was your mindset. That's how we how we operate fascinating. I'll listen. This is not a critic against professional psychologists. But it's completely different. Approach towards problem solving actually approach declined definitely different setup than so far I've encountered and I like it very much like exactly for me. I would have problem to to go to psychologist exactly for the reason because I don't want to set up my cell for healthy. You're talking to someone about things that maybe I do not want to talk about. I know this is my problem. This is where it comes from because I reflected on it and I just want to talk about that and I want you to listen understanding of and help me get out of it. Elected approach very much. I think for me it would be fitting and I think for most of the people who are in enterpreneurship little time busting their Ariza knows who to bring up to the next level thing that could be very helpful it would definitely be interesting listing for starters because often People think as you said rationally they think about it from many different Sites rights and they think that they they thought through all possibilities even the negative ones and so on the thing they might be ready for everything and so on which is good but they may simply have something that stops them from being successful because something wholesome down. They're not free to believe leave that they can be anything in the world. Plus there's one thing you may think of everything that might happen but if you actually have have the freedom of believing that this is what you doing and it's GonNa work out than let's say. Miraculous things may happen which which you have never sought of things sets are kind of The universe gives you a hand. Yeah and I'm not all this who are on masonry things and you know. Let's Burn Kendall this I mean the method is very logical. She could but simply we all know that sometimes things happen to do think man. I would never expect this to happen and I met dispersing by coincidence and this is America and these things basically to happen behind what you can see so if you you can be humble enough and realize that probably not everything can be thought food you actually giving yourself the opportunity to get much higher it much quicker than you ever thought. Also what would he spoke about the Waitress I have respect for them because damn hard work for us we. We tend not to work with people on onto depressants. I had some experience with clients on on drugs basically smoking weed and so and is really difficult to work with them because what it does to you to bring the two. You don't feel your your emotions very much. Watch it. Supress your emotions. And that makes you operate better in in a normal life but for the therapies very difficult and I we know that the psychiatrists psychologists since they work differently. They probably can get to these people somehow easier. I don't know I mean psychiatrists are overdose. Who prescribed the medicine so we also need them? I am very much for complementary medicine but I would not talk talk against other Patrick Medicine all respect and we definitely different times. Different people need different. How so it's good? It's very a healthy statement. Did you think about joining forces with someone else for example in your venture right now. You're helping helping people mentally. I am very much aware when I used to consulting my life was anything else than healthy. No time to have a proper food always going for restaurants nothing homemade food that galaxy now I can nutritional healthy diets for myself was completely off the table for me would be interesting to have your thoughts on. If you thought about combining that we someone else's help you could say like I understand that you have these sort of problem but maybe you should also look into your diet live. There are some improvements to I'd be done can benefit. You're on a long-term did you think about that. Not on a professional level. I was Roger Thinking that that would be something that will totally interest me due to. Let's say if I want you to be my personal coach on Light La- let's say health wise because I'm the yoga teacher as well. I'm really interested in Facial Yoga which is not only aesthetics. It's really changes. Your your mindset as well because let's face it we I mean humans are quite wayne creatures and when you look at your Salif a new look good your face is not all saggy and you you know we are is get brighter and all that it also sets you to a better day and you're likely to be more efficient than successful if someone asked me to look after him and say hey. Can you help me to get better altogether. Oh totally love to do that though. I don't have Course of nutrition attrition I. It's all through. How help myself how? I put myself through a thyroid inflammation and so on. So it's all trying thing on on on myself but that would be definitely a good idea. So if there was between the starters anybody who would like to set up a hop for a healthy lifestyle I would definitely loved it. Yeah I'm wrong because just an an X.. Up there will be a lady presenting her new new venture which is just now starting and she goes into the direction of nutrition and health diet and giving you help on that side and I was just thinking it would be interesting just that you talked to gotta just exchange your experience. How is your approach towards helping your clients whatever comes off was up to you ladies but just out of interest this is your health and trade great because I can totally imagine speaking mom? She likes to go for example to to her nails Dell's once in a month or go for the Harrison from time to time and that kind of care also makes her happy she feels good afterwards. That's understandable. I also feel you quite fine up to Heckert I suppose nevertheless I think that could be also something that is I wouldn't say necessarily enterpreneurial Venture to to just to begin with as a startup can scale it endlessly. Don't think that that is the past that it can be taken but it sure can be sort of off wellbeing centre where you can visit them when you get out of there if you're a totally new person and you're ready to face the challenges yet definitely idea. Thank you have to give you the contact that yeah absolutely Avi A. V. Pleased to to meet ninety great make Healthier at ready to get their challenges would be wonderful and anybody else obviously. Yes well our time almost over. I'm really grateful to to have you here Christina. This was for me eye opening on one side because I I am aware that I have some issues. When I'm thinking about problems how I approached him might not always be the best I suppose because thousand people thousand different opinions and there has to be a reason for that uh so I'm always considering those as well trying to look at things from different perspective but yet I know I'm filtering it through glasses? I like it or not. Removing those finding finding the best solution is essential for success. Full start up for anything that you try to do so to me. I think that could really help Christina. I'm looking forward forward to be on your table right here. I perfect and with that. We'll share now your context People can reach out to you through Instagram Christina with excellent after the T. underscore rabbits and via our facebook page mental coaching Basel. We'll also share those links and information are posts and in our book. I'm really happy that you were here. Christine and let you talk to me and and I hope at the end of the day I can also help somehow. Thank you step up for having me this great be here. Thank you very much. Thank you until our listeners. Stay tuned it was great to have Christina Christina here I really enjoyed it and hopefully also had something out of this podcast and yeah. Let's each other in the next podcast. Thank you very much for listening.

Christina Christina Czech Republic Basel Christina China enterpreneurs Stephan Justin Austin facebook Youtube jeter Moore fraud Belgium Brazil Mike capacity Dan I Matt Richard Christine
Tooth Worms and Tooth Pullers: Dentistrys Rotten History

Every Little Thing

26:26 min | 2 years ago

Tooth Worms and Tooth Pullers: Dentistrys Rotten History

"This episode of every little thing is brought to you by the makers of Hillshire farm deli. Meat the Hillshire farm, brand is committed to preparing high-quality deli meat. It's why they're ultra thin Turkey. Breast is slow roasted in a tradition that goes back over eighty years. It's made slowly so you can enjoy it quickly. There are over a dozen varieties of Hillshire farm deli meat to choose from you can buy them at your local grocery store or online. Find out where at Hillshire farm dot com. This episode of every little thing is brought to you by Hendrick's. Gin a light balanced Jin oddly infused with Rosen and cucumber. It's a concoction invented by master distiller, Leslie Gracie, who still supervises each batch, five hundred leaders at a time, please enjoy the unusual responsibly Hendrick's gin forty four percent alcohol by volume twenty nineteen imported by William grant and sons Inc. New York, New York. You have reached the every little thing helpline. Please leave your message after the tone. Hey, foreign friends, this is Amanda from Virginia. I have actual -mergency. I'm just really been wondering why and when people started taking care of their T, like how did he end up with the standard of oral hygiene? Hello. Hey, Amanda, it's far from every little thing, are you ready to go on this? Dente benca. I'm excited to get some answers because I've been chewing on the spur awhile. Ooh. Have you been working on your tooth puns? That's it. I have no more puns. That's as far as they go. All right. Let's start with some routine intake questions. Have you ever wanted to replace all your teeth with dentures? Oh, no. Oh, no. Do people do that? I have no idea. Have you ever thought about filing your teeth into points? No, no. Do you ever name your teeth? I, I can't say that I have I take it, you've never turned her teeth into jewelry. No. But my mom did save them. I have them all with, like my little baby blankets somewhere, like in a drawer. I haven't decided what I'll do with my kids like I mean it seems like I should save them. But then I didn't want mine, like, what am I what am I going to do with those here here eighteen year old you've graduated in going to college starting your own adult life in here, all your infant teeth? You know you could give your daughter when she goes to college like a jewelry box or something and just Inle with her teeth. Give it a nice little accent, who needs mother Pearl. When you have little little bits of teeth to tell your daughter that she can thank me for that. Graduation, present I will make sure I'll sign the card from you. So Amanda, you wanted to know when did people start taking care of their mouth pebbles? Yeah. That'll add that to my vocabulary, we've found the perfect person to answer your question. This is retired dentist and dental historian Henry Clark. Hi, amanda. Hey, henry. And if there were a dental hall of fame, Henry would know the name under every plaque an American dentist WD. It was a dentist named GV blase surgeon halston. These people's name was best and the Technet pretty amazing. Henry is going to take on a worldwide tour of early tooth care. How did people take care of their mouth bones BC before crest? Before colgate. You mean. We're going to start in ancient Egypt, the first dentist. We know of was named SE. Ray HESI are a and he was addenda fide as the surgeon to the pharaoh and deferrals household, they would us a lot of things as prevention, that we don't think really worked, but they had some Savvas and medicines that they would use and they would splint loose teeth with gold. Wire if a tooth was loose. The Egyptians use splints in living, mouths and to make people look good for the afterlife. The Phoenicians also had advanced tooth care techniques. The Phoenicians began to make very sophisticated bridges. Oh, where they would wire in false teeth or cast artificial teeth out of gold. What about more mundane, preventative care, when do we get things like to? With brushes right? No one knows exactly who invented the toothbrush. And when there's some evidence that it came from China, and we know of another early example, used in certain Islamic traditions, the sidewalk, and what it is, is a toothbrush, that's made out of you take the route of certain trees, and you can cut away the bark and leaves section about a half inch long and that develops a little fibrous thing, and you can use that to brush, your teeth apparently Muhammed used to use one of these sticks. So people were brushing but not because they knew the cause of gum disease for a long time. People didn't know what caused their checklists to rot. But there were many, many theories. This is my personal favorite common thing that has persisted ever since the days of Babylonia back about seventeen hundred BC was that there was some kind of worms that got into the teeth tooth worms growth. They didn't have microscopes. So it was just a mad plate that they just imagine that, that was hope. How did how did this hypothesis come to be? Let me send you exactly what they imagined. Oh, no picture is coming your way, we will put this picture on our Instagram at Yale t show. Wow. This is. I mean they I mean, this is really disturbing will you describe it. So it's like very beautifully artistic drawn with these bury large teeth like the roots of the teeth, pointed down, and it's like hollowed out on the inside with snakes, eating people legs up in the air, with, like a sea of dead skulls in the bottom of the other tooth. Like, first of all, who are the people on the inside of your tooth, second of all the worms get their third house, anyone sleep at night. Frightening, as it is the idea sticks around there. I've ary carvings of twos. Worms from the seventeen hundreds in Europe. This myth kept going that long. That's like post Mayflower people try to all kinds of remedies for getting rid of tooth worms Henry told us that people would try to smoke them out like bug bums style. I'm sure that really helped their lung function going forward. Another remedy with swishing urine. I mean of all things that's the. Beginning of history or they just yanked the teeth out. Can you imagine if you thought that this was, what was in your mouth, like in all of your teeth, I would pull my teeth out if the, the urine swishing swallow didn't work knowing said anything about swallow, Amanda, you never know what might have slept down? So that's a small bite of what we know about early tooth care around the world. The next stop on this to train takes us to Europe in the sixteen hundreds, where pearly whites were going through dark times in this period teeth. Oh, disgusting toothsome. It was not black commit crumbling. And they're very heavily kind of plaque. This is Richard Barnett. He's going to strap on the blue bib and be our guide for this next part of the tooth tour. He's an expert in Europe's rotting teeth. Hey, richard. Okay. So what is taking a toll on people's shiver? Rattles? I'm thinking is that alcohol content very sugary? Oh, you're so close. It's sugar beets in the seventeenth century that refined sugar styles become cheap enough that, that, that most people can have a little bit of it. And this has a devastating effect on dental health, sweet teeth go downhill, because it's delicious Europeans haven't really encountered this kind of. Limitless of say oral pleasure. That sounds quite wrong. Doesn't it? At this point. Nobody's made the connection between sugaring cavities. But one thing is clear people's teeth are a wet hot crumbling mess. So how do we fix it? Not exactly with dental care because that was a mess back then too. There were tooth care specialists, but they weren't exactly trained medical professionals could be cooled charlatans. They could be called our hers rushes is in French in English. They were as plainly into modestly, tooth, pullers, you wouldn't call these very specialized practitioners, the thing that really distinguished them was the possession of a tool, which is cool to pelican. Oh my God. Richard. I'm looking at the pelican. Exactly. Oh, no. Yeah. The Pentagon innocence is, is, basically, kind of lever think of something like crowbar modified to fit into the mouth, and you sort of wedge it under the under the top of the two phenomenal. And yet lever it out. Oh my word now. Thank you. I wouldn't want that coming at my mouth. It's so extreme on. It could be very brutal. If you read dental manuals of instruction from this period, they often rather nervously say be careful when you're pulling out the tooth because you can pull out of the jewel with it adjacent teeth, the fullest can be such that you accidentally knock somebody out, give them a concussion damage. There is something like this, it can lead to terrible hemorrhage. It can lead to huge infections. So although this is a straightforward business. It could be really very dangerous, and I've no doubt extremely painful to. He's still conscious flora. I'm disturbed. Where do you think people had this delicate procedure done? I'm gonna give you four options. Okay. A the privacy of your own home. Be a doctor's office. See the local farmers market and de yield little shopping of horrors. I mean, I feel like the naturally answer should be the ladder. Don't tell me it's the farmer's market. It's the farmer's market. Everybody gathers though, it's the great so associated Cajun of futile medieval Europe and you will go there to the itinerant charlatan who just sort of goes from market to market, stop it. The he would pollute. I mean if you gotta get your Aaron STAN do it in one fell swoop maximize your time. But that just seems like I don't think I'd want an audience. It's not your goblet immed-, definitely not could I interest, you in a public extraction. If it was more theatrical like not, no costumes on stage at a big fair, does that sound. That's a big fat. Now certainly were practitioners, who would make more of a show of it. They'd have music, have drums, they'd have great sort of prosciutto music them. Yeah. Absolutely. Cover up the screams of the of those suffering, though, does, they could be real spectacularly dressed, you know, fumbling red costumes thinking, again, read to conceal any special of blood, I think, part of the appeal of, of the tooth policies. It's a good show. You know, this is a culture that's very comfortable indeed rather joyous. Public suffering think of the public executions of the period, which drew hundreds thousands of visitors. This is like execution light suitable for children of all ages. Well, exactly. This is the old son of the fat is I suppose, we'd now say. There is one more option. If you are a really rich person with really poor chompers, if you'll wealthy enough cool, so you can pay somebody to come to household to the Royal Koto hotel bed, shamed or whatever it may be. But the treatment you receive is not going to be significantly different. We have reports for example of Queen, Elizabeth the first, the great English monarch of the Elizabethan age, having teeth pulled in exactly the same way, as subjects nailed pelican, the Pentagon exactly she might have been treated with a great deal more respect. I'm sure and it would have been done in privacy. But no, the, the, the basic mechanic, Soviet is pretty similar. So when did like we get into, like the modern standard like I don't know, Minty fresh breath, like something had to happen. That's a good question. We're gonna find out after the break. This episode of every little thing is brought to you by Hendrix. Jim made an tiny seaside village in Scotland and oddly infused. With Rosen cucumber there's a Hendrick's gin cocktail for all kinds of occasions. Like those times when you're recording an ad to Mark, this occasion, my editor for hand, I made a Hendrix, cucumber lemonade in the studio. That sound Hendrix in. Smells, like rose, and cucumber cares Sears. It's delicious. You know, they say when life hands you cucumbers and a little later, the handy, limited and then life hands. You Jim make you eliminate Hendrick's gin escaped the conventional embrace the delectable, you can find this recipe and others at Hendrick's, gin dot com slash L T. Great cocktails start with responsible measuring. Please enjoy the unusual responsibly Hendrick's gin forty four percent alcohol by volume twenty nineteen imported by William grant and sons Inc. New York, New York. Okay. When did we trade in the renaissance fair, for the dental chair are rotten tooth expert? Richard can tell us the origins of modern dentistry, lie in France. At the end of the seventeenth century breath. There's some really great hygiene forward. Well dressed person who entered the scene who everybody wanted to emulate. And it started a revolution of clean mouth kinda. Yeah. So the person credited with taking tooth care, intimate, earn ity is most your peer FU chard fischel initially trains trains is a strong word initially practices is one of these itinerant tooth pullers. But I think he simply attentive, to what's going on in France and the period, I think he's he's, he's the extremely ambitious, and I think he sees that there's a gap in the market for what you might call professional dentistry. He sees a gap in the tooth market, because of a burgeoning Bursch Wasi, and he proposes a whole new vision. For dental care. He publishes in seventeen twenty eight this absolute dual stop of the book. It's a practical guide of what you might call conservative dentistry, so instead of just pulling teeth out when they start to hurt, maybe you clean them. Maybe you sort of tie teeth to adjacent teeth to kind of hold them in place. The shard also has advice for tooth pullers. He's like take your business out of the town square, and bring it into an office. A nice office. You know, don't sit people in Chas lie them on a nice, comfortable, Shays long and don't go straight full than with a tooth key warm, it up in your hands. I so that there isn't the shock with the cold metal as well as the, the shock of the pain. He says that a dentist should have a kind of light shore and steady touch as well. And there's one more important element in sharks. Oh. He renames the accusation to dentistry. Did he make that up? I mean he he calls himself, Don t Sgt on. It's very striking both in Britain, and America as soon as version of dentistry, becomes popular lots of English tooth pullers and lots of American tooth poulos. Suddenly start calling themselves. Don't tastes. Shar takes urgent care out of the marketplace, and into Dante's offices. But when do people realize that URL nuggets need regular upkeep, or back with Henry Clark former dentist current dental historian and all all-time dental name dropper? And he said, you gotta look to the lady, hundreds, early nineteen hundreds. Happened right around the turn of the century. Yeah, I would just a huge number of breakthroughs at that time, lay it on me. I up at dentist filled in the cavity mystery. That was an American dentist. WD Miller, who was working in Robert cokes laboratory in Berlin and did a series of very sophisticated experiments, he identified about thirty different bacteria, and he showed that those bacteria would metabolize sugar and create acid, and that's what caused decay, tooth, worms are finally off the hook so understanding to decay. Leads to other big changes dentists start cleaning plaque and you start to get regular preventative dental care, okay? Tell me what, you know, about the toothpaste. She matter of fact, it was about that time that the toothpaste industry came out with toothpastes that we're and acid, and that we're supposed to kill bacteria and toothpaste really took off. There's also a revolution. Cavity care at this time novacaine is discovered cheap long lasting fillings, were invented and of course, the dental trill. There were drills before the nineteen hundreds, but there was room for improvement dental dual came in. I as a foot treadle drill in the eighteen forties dentists used to have to pump this drill. And you had to have a lot of coordination to be able to pump the drill at the same time as you were working on the teeth that is not what I want my dentist to be doing when I am getting my, my teeth. Around nineteen hundred the electric dental drill wasn't mended. So, basically in the span of ten years, dentists, figured out what caused tooth decay, which led to cleaning flack, regular checkups and toothpaste. And on top of that cavity care went through a major upgrade. So by the early nineteen hundreds dental care starting to look more like what we recognize is dental care today. That is legitimately a revolution. I mean, ten years, one decade by the nineteen fifties, people are lossing and brushing twice a day or lying to their dental hygienists about it. Don't t- street, as we know it has arrived. For you have given me more than I ever thought to hope you mean more than you ever wanted to know. Yes, but I did ask so do deserve what I have heard today? I love it. When our listeners say, I guess, I deserve this. What do you think you're going to be thinking about it? Your next six months checkup while I'm going to be really appreciative of that drill. And I'm going to be thankful than at least my teeth aren't black and I never have to see a pelican in real life. That is what will be most thankful for. Thank you for the great question. Thanks, laura. The for relief teeth behind listener tests, had a related question. We couldn't pass up. How did he make people's teeth really bad in TV movies, even though the actor probably has really good teeth? Yes, who is responsible for movie tees tests. I think we've found the right person to answer your question. Own film. Al-tv. Nantou nine percent challenge had come through my hands. This is Chris lion's tooth maker to the stars. He got into movie teeth after making teeth for regular blokes in the UK Dunkelberg serves, full hundred seventy up and down the country. So if you need a crown a bridge and implant denture dentist, and they send it someone like me. And at some point Chris decided to add a second line of business, making leprechaun teeth and fangs his teeth are in your cue. He's made teeth for game of thrones. Big little lies fleabag killing eve, peaky blinders the crown don't for Toyotas, Wint and blown Blanchet under the jelly Cup gold silver teeth. We can put Joe's on. Eighth diamonds, rubies, emeralds. Would you name? Okay. So listener test wanted to know how you make movie stars teeth look terrible. So good question like let's say Julia Roberts needs to play a troll with no access to dental care. What kind of teeth do you set her up with we do to do one? That's very, very thin low point one of millimeter thick view much look sports God, but it's really really thin fits over your own teeth. But we can discolor your teeth up of make Hilo clerk really heavy smoker drug addict. We can put cracks Lou chips, but as you'll so the shape doesn't change and it's just on the front of the teeth. Yep. She goes between your teeth and your lips. It's teeth gloves. I've never heard them taste clubs before they wanna go more extreme. So we have gum recession broken teeth missing teeth and Mike teeth more crooked than we use our other style, which you slightly thicker just fits over the front of you'll tape, and then gives them the desired look. Gimme the range of teeth that you do range of taste. Right. Will we go from Wolfman teeth in wolf mine, which we shoot to tiny little thing tape to close Madonna's gap, not front teeth? Then we got right down to the really ridiculous making teeth dogs, why docs, Khania west got a pup video out where the dog a Doberman, barking in the beginning of the video, and they called me and said, we won't this dope. Have some gold fangs say brought this along and I might some gold fangs. And when the video showing in black and white, you can't even tell the gold fangs, then we go for the look like. So if we do in Mero stripers, Margaret Thatcher, Margaret Thatcher had very distinctive taste. So be Merrill, Margaret Thatcher's teeth Rami Malecki, bohemian, rhapsody playing Freddie Mercury. You can't play Freddie Mercury without Freddie. Mercury. How would you describe Freddie mercury's teeth bake? Very big. We, we might some a life size for Rami, and they would just faulty big freeze, Feis. What do you mean? Life size as close as we could Freddie's real sized safe. So we took measurements from pictures reference, but I will fall too big for Romney. So we ended up making about twenty different sets until we got the size. Just right. Is is that typical sort of twenty iterations of set of teeth before you finished? No, no. That was because it was such a tricky job. We had to make sure his rut is. And it was the film owes most nervous about in all my career. Why are you must nervous about it? Because fraud is very odd. Coney. Character and his teeth. Everyone knows for teeth and there's a very, very, very fine line between being real comical, and I was worried with critics. I always joke sheltie thin that tastes ridiculous. If I didn't go and see the film and so Christmas letting the cost incurred the primary anything didn't want to say I was very nervous about saying it. What was it like when he saw it? I loved it. He was as ING. What about the teeth? Couse. I love the, the eighth are major thing in the film. You see the teeth from the opening to the end, and they look very believable. I think very believable. He loved them. I mean we have to make a solid code set for him as well. Why much? So you asked me fucking Mike him assault. Goats Freddie teeth. So we might say gold, Freddie saith. He she wet and he's a kicks him from self. Do you think they're they're right next to the asker around his trophy shelf? They'll be close Bush thing they'll be close by. If I wanted to get a set of goblin teeth for a special night out on the town, how much would it cost in US? Learn english. Yeah. US US. You'll be looking a minimum of thousand dollars. I don't know maybe a milestone birthday. I don't know. I don't know. We've never said no anything we've been asked. We've never said night. If you have a burning question, you can't get to the bottom of give us a ring, eight three three ring, e L T. You can also find us on Instagram at E L T show come for the tooth worm picks. Stay for the pelican. Every little thing is produced by Aaron race. Phoebe Flanagan net. Heist, and flora Lichtman with help from Nicole Asuka and Doug baron are consulting editors are Caitlyn Kenny and hor, hey, just mix by DARA. Hirsch scored by DARA Hirsch. I brush my gum rocks, three times a day. Goodbye. From Gimblett apart cast about two princes, and the prophecy, I am just going to March into an enchanted forest and do battle with an unknown able, that's been terrorizing kingdom for years, what could possibly go wrong. How do we find to tiny princes, and a great big forest that depends, how quickly can you raise an army? The two princes all episodes out now from Gimblett.

Mike teeth Henry Clark Amanda Hendrick Europe Richard Barnett New York Instagram Rosen William grant Pentagon sons Inc Freddie Hendrix editor Freddie Mercury colgate Egypt Virginia
Are you facing a tax bill that is so large you can't pay it? FT Money delves into the impact of a new HMRC tax charge

FT Money Show

25:27 min | 2 years ago

Are you facing a tax bill that is so large you can't pay it? FT Money delves into the impact of a new HMRC tax charge

"This financial times podcast is supported by capital. One capital. One is reimagining banking by offering accounts with no fees are minimums that can be opened from anywhere in five minutes. Capital one. What's in your wallet capital? One NA. It's the end of January. Traditionally the time when many of us scrambled to pay tax bills. But what if you facing a tax Bill that was so large you simply couldn't pay on clap hours. The FTC personal finance editor the size of the bills. I'm talking about roofing. Six figure sums in some cases, dating back up to twenty years. So boy, some people facing bills of this magnitude because of a clampdown on sacred disguised. Remuneration schemes up to a hundred thousand freelance contracts in the use them as a means of avoiding tax after financial advisers, let them to believe they were legitimate. But from April this year, a new tax cooled, the loan charge comes into force, and we have dedicated this special edition of the F T money show to examining what its impact could be. The government in the UK tax will thought he say those who have avoided tax need to pay up. Many of the affected workers say they're facing bankruptcy fear that they will lose their homes or seen the relationships and mental health suffer campaign to say that one man is tragically committed suicide. Amid a growing political outcry public perceptions that the affected workers are shifting should they really be regarded as tax avoiders who all be the victims of misselling scandal. I'm an atman, and I've been following this story since I joined acting money as reporter at the end of last year, a spike in surveys affected by lane charge and the representatives, plus h an RC independent tax experts and the politicians who call in for Lord, we changed. We'll be hearing from all of them in this special edition of yeti money podcast in the words of one tax advisor. This issue isn't black and white. There are many grey areas. And in the words of another. It's a total mess. One of us before in feed about lane charge was Tom Wallace. He used to work for H MARCY as toxic specter, and is now head of tax at WTT attacks advisory firm that represents over two thousand people affected by lean chart thought him he'd stay. Welcome morning, Emma. And thank you for having me say, can you explain our listeners, first of all what exactly is a disguise renumeration scheme. So essentially contractors were employed by was known as I'm Brenda companies who provide this overseas to inclines those inclines include financial institutions, the NHS and central government itself. Whilst employed that receive a salary in two parts one part for payroll which suffer tax deductions and the referral. I'm payment usually for an offshore. I party such a trust. Whilst these loans were not taxed as income. Most were taxes employment related beneficial loans are subject to taxes the legislation stood at that time. However, whilst HMO say we'd like to use the word disguise when describing such range moments. There really was no such thing. P eleven days to schmaltzy showing the loans and in most cases disclosures were made on the contractors tax return. But it's pays the main positive is that people will pay for lane, and amaze cases, they were told that they wouldn't have to pay income tax. Now, if somebody told me that I would be suspicious say why did contract to sign not to these game lean situations. I worked for didn't want to employ. For them directly. They didn't want to pay sick pension holiday pay at cetera. So it I employ them through their companies then off to a clampdown could offer five by h mossy this route was considered too risky. This is an umbrella company started to spring up they promised till that contract's work in a safe and compliant way, unfortunately, many of these turns out to be fronts for the top of arrangements, which I described earlier often contractors were made aware of the skins bought a professional advisors. Some even boasted that they were approved by h marc- or had the backing of prominent QC's some agencies insisted that the clients only use such an arrangement don't forget, we're at the height of the financial crisis at this point people are happy just drive employment at all. So the combination of all of this crate the perfect storm for these umbrellas. They also very expensive. They typically took fifteen to twenty percent of the contractors paying fees. It is many were led to believe that this was actually to cover the tax. Joe what work has didn't know was the organizations recommend in these games were often given financial incentives for doing so that no this you have to ask would I ever got the advice in a different light. Okay. That's a fair question. So what's options to people who were paid for at least lanes games? Now have. It's important that any option a contract to takes needs to deal with both the loan charge and underline inquiry or assessment that's in place with H mossy. It's not enough to simply deal with one. So if they seem mind, I think contractors have four options first options to repay the loan. However, whilst this might stop the loan charge applying it will not stop h mossy claiming that the money was income when it was received for normal inquiry in assessment processes, the may also be an additional tax charge. If the money is then redistributed from the trust. That's why we generally avoids against this route option to pay income tax on the entire loan in eighteen nineteen tax year. This is the so-called loan charge, which taxes all outstanding balances income in the one tax year. These could be up to twenty years worth of loans amounted to hundreds of thousands of pounds of tax in some cases, producing a higher tax rate than would've applied had long been treated as income in the years received the issue here is it just doesn't close enquiries and so- settlement will also need to be reached with H Morsi set. Partly option free. You can try and set with H mossy twice now running out to do that given the revenue claim that any settlement must be agreed with them by the fifth of April. We've got two thousand clients Emma, the vast majority of which requested settlement figures by h MARC's deadline for you September. And today only forty five percent of them have received responses before function is to raise the litigious challenge. The basis of our challenges simple, effective, and indicates that any liability for the Patua wasn't deducted remains the responsibility of the employer and not the contractors as their employees. This is in line with what was decided in the supreme court ruling last year in the case of Rangers football club. We continue to meet with MP's and key stakeholders to continue out discussions around a practical resolution unlocked taika moments congratulate the work that the lunch action group, and sir. Eight of admirably achieved on behalf of contractors. Thank you tell before we move and tell me about the legal challenge is bringing on the half of his clients. I want since jeez. Listening to Richard. He's one of the contracts as I speak. It's in the article, I've risen ESI money who was affected by the in charge. And he's facing a six six-figure tax Bill. Given inviting meal, so yeah, I can tell you a little bit about my background. How I got involved in this. So I've been a freelancer let me in my fifties now. So I've been a freelancer since the mid nineties that time I was using limited company as Tom was discussing earlier. And that worked well for many years, and what I found well with the introduction of oil thirty five in the early two thousands. I was starting to get advice from canton, saying you can't continue to work in this way. There was a lot of confusion El Al thirty five was implemented in a in a very haphazard manner. Nobody really understood it or how to work with it. So I was told that I would need to leave limited company because I wouldn't be compliant with that just Latian. So I'd call that professional advice. And that's what I look to do. I didn't take it face value. So I went off and had a chat with another set of counts. Get a second opinion. Now, these were the people who are offering a solution whereby I became an employee of phase effectively and the way that which that worked as I would have some of my rations. Would come back to me in terms of alone. And some would also be by salaries always paying tax on salary and also paying quite substantial fees on top of that. So I was invited to come down and meet them. So I felt I was being sort of properly vetted green pulse. Ball ide- documents proof of address Bank details and even performed a credit check upon me. So I thought you know, these guys all doing the right things and from because I'm in from a banking background. So I work in that industry. They're all the kind of things that would have been done setting that up when people born new customers into the banking world, also. Yeah. These guys into night will they're doing. I looked to this Aleutian. I asked the question show is this right? Is it legal all we are able to do this? Because I did have some questions about city, and I was told that absolutely. They were supporting barrister opinion. It'd been looked at by the legal profession pronounce to be effective. And so based on that I made decision that I would move into their solution because made me compliant with tax regulations. So I think it's important for people to understand that moving out my limited company and then moving into one of these solutions. There was no real benefit to me in terms of if you like that's cool it net. Take home pay. They both returned much the same is that because of the fees you pain as well as right? So I sort of ineffective tax position of twenty twenty five percent. So and you could get signal returns out of well run limited company at that time. So, you know on balance it was in they looked very similar to comply with and they just Latian at no time was advised in these. Plur discussions with these with these captains and tactic. Is. There was any risk involved. So to be told fifteen years after the fact that there was never any guarantee. Well, that's just I always very unhappy. And to say that I thought well, you absolute liar was the first thing that sprung into my mind, Richard co-founded, the loan charge action group, which now has nearly three thousand members who are campaigning for the law to be changed. Richard. Can you tell us about your typical member? Well, that's a very difficult question to answer we find that they're using a typical member what we found one of the things that surprised us. The most is how widespread and commonplace. These solutions have become and they've permeated all areas on the UK economy, so anywhere where there's a free loans or a contractor type base to people to people's requirements, and what needs you will find these solutions have been sold. So we we see it in. And I guess we have a lot of social workers. We see the power industry oil and gas of sleep IT and banking, which is where is where I sit. And so it's eight the tendrils of this go, absolutely everywhere. How do you feel about being cooled tax avoiders? Well, obviously window very happy about that one. I I heard the term applied to people like me. I was frankly shocked I never believed that I was engaging and anything that could ever. Be called tax avoidance tax avoidance, wasn't even the term. I was familiar with and wasn't commonplace. When I'm I going volved in these solutions, it made me feel victimized and many of our members feel the same. We feel like we've been segregated and and singled out for punishment because of the draconian nature of Bologne charge, and and what that's doing to people's lives. And have you ever thought about suing your financial adviser? Yes. That has been looked at and people have investigated this area. But it's it's very difficult. Because a lot of the time you find that these solution providers of disappeared. A lot of these visors of Ben Phoenix into new companies. You also need to ensure it got some kind of insurance policy or something to go actually think from a a civil sort of case perspective, it's very difficult to sue them personally. So we have looked at it. I don't know one of the detail. But when we have looked at this when we found is that people told us, it's going to be very very difficult. We'll hear HMO side of the story a bit later, but the tax authority is automatically offering anyone with an income of less than fifty thousand pounds per year. Five years to pay the settlement that they? Oh, what do your members think about that? Yeah. Which in that is it really doesn't make a lot of sense. When you look at the figures, and I think we printed this in the article you did the weekend. To be able to repay a debt of around one hundred thousand pounds or more. You would have very little left on the salary of fifty thousand over five years to be able to live off then you'd be looking at for around nine hundred pounds. If you were less than fifty thousand and some people got these exposures six figures say thirty thousand you actually wouldn't be earning enough to actually pay the make the repayments to h him. I'll see so it just doesn't work much more time would be required. If we went down that route in response HMO says nobody will be forced to sell their home. If the only debt thing have with the tax authority's is the lane charge. And a spokesman told the F T we recognized that there will be people that are in pretty stressful circumstances, and if they haven't engaged with HMO, see they are looking at a sizable amount of tax wondering how they're going to pay for it. But bankruptcies will be the absolute last resort campaign say between fifty to one hundred thousand contract workers. Directly affected by the lane charge. But this figure does not take into account number of family members who've also been affected in my estimation. The article I also forty year old Rebecca Smith that's most every name his husband is facing tax Bill of over one hundred thousand pounds and is suffering from severe mental health problems. This is her story in her own words of over reasons that will become this. It's not her actual voice. We haven't got the money our lives on hold it superman cloud. It's the first thing we think of when we wake helping the last thing we think about before we go to sleep back in two thousand and four vaguely remember, my husband asked me, whether he should sign up to this loan scheme. I said stupidly I now realize what is everyone else in industry doing? We haven't told our children friends, or why deferment about the extent of our financial problems. I know somebody who served with the bankruptcy order three days. Before christmas. Things are getting more desperate by the day for us. Tom of is gonna stories common. Among people your represented, unfortunately. Yes. The impact of this is immeasurable particularly fell in the lower income such as social workers and HFS staff who as much as they liabilities might be a lot less than someone like Richard equally. It's his life changing where where families breaking up with fighting an increased amount of requests from lawyers and the divorce courts to set out for them, what clients potential liabilities are an explain to them how they arose. Also, unfortunately, wanna tell you about a client of ours who aren't gonna call him, John. That's real name is facing a liability that will bankrupt him. Should it come to pass? It will not only ruin his future. But that of his wife and kids to like many Jones been living with the shadow of unhitch mossy inquiry over him into his tax returns for many years last weekend. It ought too much for John. He left the family home and checked himself into a hotel room in an attempt to take time life believing. It's the only way that you could save his family Janis recovering, but the effect this is having on Audrey individuals like John and horror stories like this are becoming more and more common. Unfortunately, this isn't a story that surprises me. We've heard similar reports before the loan charge action group offers a helpline if you want to get in touch with that helpline, you can find full details on the loan charge action group website, just Google lane charge action group response to the money article last weekend HMO sees chief executive, sir. Jonathan Thompson strongly disputed the tax authority was not doing enough to communicate its disapproval of lane schemes the time Winton to warnings against the tax avoidance schemes in the media and online from two thousand nine, sir. Jonathan Thompson said his words, but not is Louis HMO has open tens of thousands of inquiries into these schemes starting before nine hundred nine nine making. Users and their representatives aware that tax return was under investigation. Employers have a legal obligation to operate pairs. You're an and wherever possible HMO see will collect the tax Jew from an employer. We expect around three quarters of the money that we collect by tackling disguised. Remediation will come directly from them, not employees. But the fact remains that an individual is ultimately responsible for making sure they've paid the right tax. We are also cracking down hard on the promoters of tax avoidance schemes. Nevertheless, a group of two thousand of workers all preparing to mount a legal challenge through WTT. Tom part of your argument focuses on whether these tax charges were retrospective. And also the HMO has allowed too much time to elapse before pursuing the claims absolutely h Moiseyev had this information since at least two thousand seven after nothing to recover the alleged on the payments from the employers. The fact that now trying to mitigate this era by tax in the wrong party with a piece of retrospective legislation must be strongly defended and with doing just that. This lane charge is also an issue. That's been hotly debated by. Politicians treasury minister, mouse, droid has argued in the house of Commons. But the lane judge is not retrospective. These clips you're about to hear I'll take him from parliament live TV they are not retrospective. In the sense that at the time that they were entered into they were defective these games. It doesn't matter. How far you go back to the scheme typically, which I've describe the way that it works was defective at the time. It didn't work then it doesn't work now of the tax is ju-. But campaign is opinion their hopes on the surge of political support after sir at Davy successfully argued for an amendment to the finance Bill in January that would force age mossy to review loan church. But let me remind the house why the treasury should then after the review ditch the retrospective nature of this measure delaying APRIL's implementation. And then amending the charge only focuses on payments made after twenty sixteen is because Mendes speaker the loan charges introduced offense against the rule of law. It's a sort of taxation that led the the Barron through bell against king. John gave birth to the Magli Carta. It is simply not acceptable for a government to introduce a law. The makes illegal something someone did years ago. When other time that action was considered legal. So Ed the MP it's accessibly campaigned that amendment to the finance Bill joins me over the line. Now. Thanks to coming on the podcast today. Say that you turn the crave. Tax. Void ins yet. You support those who've been affected, but lane charge wiser most of the games. Retrospection actually where the HMO and go back years when cases really have been closed that creates massive uncertainty in the taxes. Get in game core principles of Tatra management. Fact, here's against the rule of law. So I absolutely think the government in h MARCY should crack down on tax avoidance. So they shouldn't do it in a way which breaches principles of the rule of law, whatever petitions and political parties think. Well, what's been very encouraging is although the Democrats have lead on this. We've got support from every part of the house neighbor part suggestion three in your position. But we've also had a lot of conservatives. And now given the problem with quite just unites. The maybe this is actually Jim ninety w levers remains even concerns that opposition isn't huge amounts of sports. And I keep getting NPR's coming up to the wishing luck and saying how can they help? So really a massive failure pollen. And there's also been an interest from the has of Lewis is very, right. That's right. The house of laws committees looking at this. I was very strong as what treasury select committee in the house of Commons. So this isn't just about empty funding to consituency to it's like committees. Look taken evidence conclusion, this was a very bad despotic of agency has agreed to a refusing and that has to report back by March thirtieth which just a few days. As a four lane charge as it comes into one of our tax experts. Are speaking to you about this called the review a paper tiger because he's the opinion it's not going to change much, but you of us. Dangers our happens. It would be government flouting parliament. They getting used to that. But that outrageous, if they were to do that because problem has expressed a clear opinion and the review is only there because under the rules of the finance overnight. We couldn't put anything stronger, and I think you see been able to over ride alot John to get rid of it. I think he would have been support for that. So I hope the government of trying to whitewash this review. I'm sure there'd be elements in h mossy you up to do this. But this is a serious response by polity to a serious era by the government, and they really need to take counter of democratic dis. And you also have his get an audience with the chancellor, Philip Hammond. What do you think he could he? Well, I hope he will listen, I hope you will listen to the argument. This is about retrospection he in the past spoken strongly out against retrospection. And I can take him three details where it's created over fifty cents. Each cases involve complete with suspension unavo- cases that that. Because that tax year was kept open by the treasury. And there for what wasn't raised the way the Internacional going about it. Frankly, is is outrageous and HMO's mistake of the stake in trying to crack down on voidance. And this is really ought your lesson for eighteen I'll say they should do their job better. We'll pay politicians are coming out in support of those affected by the lane charge. The court of public opinion is harder to convince since F T money covered. The she lost weekend. Online comments from readers show. How audience is divided in the words of one reader these people cheated the tax authorities, and thus the rest of us and getting exactly what they deserve. But in the words of another it's fed HMO c clamp down on these schemes. But it's incompetent that they did say say late as the April deadline approaches after money will continue to report on this story. You can read Emma's feature living in the shadow of the tax scandal online now that FC dot com slash money. And we would like to hear what you think having listened to the podcast. Do you feel sympathy for those caught up in the lane charge for as a tax payer? Would you be angry if MP's pressured HMO see to go easy on the crackdown? Maybe you a contract to facing. Launch tax Bill amont at your views. Today's we've heard from Richard. And Rebecca you can Email us money at fifty dot com. Tweezers at F T money over rice review on ITN's page who wherever you get your podcasts. The F T money show was produced in London by Lucy. Warrick ching. We will be back next week that the usual time goodbye. This financial times podcast is supported by capital. One capital. One is building better Bank one that feels an axe nothing like a typical Bank. It's why they're reimagining banking and building something completely different. They offer accounts with no fiercer minimums. They also offer one of the best savings rates in America, and you can open a Capital One account from anywhere in five minutes. Capital one. This is banking reimagined opening account today. Inexperienced banking reimagined for yourself capital. One. What's in your wallet capital? One NA.

HMO Richard John Emma treasury UK Tom part H mossy MP retrospection h MARC Rebecca Smith Tom Wallace misselling reporter advisor
Ep. 111 The Running Man, Chapters 70-43

Two Guys to the Dark Tower Came: A Podcast about Stephen King and His Books

26:31 min | Last week

Ep. 111 The Running Man, Chapters 70-43

"In a welcome everyone to two guys to the dark tower. Came the podcast where we discussed the characters connections deeper meanings of stephen king's magnum opus. The dark tower. I'm jay russo. I'm sean mcvay. You can email us at two guys dark tower at gmail.com to support the show. Visit us at patriotic dot com slash. Two guys dr tower in this episode. We'll cover the bachmann book. The running man chapters seventy two forty. Three let's start. The show narrowly escaping the hunters by sneaking through the sewers and setting a ymca on fire. Ben richards find a safe harbor with an african american family. The oldest brother bradley recognizes richards is but is willing to help him and educates richards on how the network and government are using the free v to pacify the masses. While they continue to make money bradley smuggles richards out of boston and helps them circumnavigate the mailings richards is required to send in. Manchester richards hides out as a priest for a while until he gets a premonition. He is in danger at the next safehouse. The mother of one of bradley's friends notifies the police of richard's location on the run again richards breaks his ankle in his shot he eventually escapes and carjacked a woman trying to get to an airport richards and his hostage are stopped at a roadblock so jay lot happened in this section and at the same time down from the breakneck pace that we were at towards the end of our last reading once. Richards escapes to ymca. And he's hanging out with bradley and bradley's brother and mother there's a lot of exposition as bradley sort of brings richards up to speed on. What's exactly happening. Yeah and it kind of starts to draw a contrast between the things that richards thinks he knows in the actual things going on behind the scenes. Or maybe just in the larger society at a level. That richard's doesn't have access to right. So it made me start thinking about ignorance and innocence because we encounter certain characters. Like amelia williams. Lake the boy. Who has the dog with them. They are the epitome of innocence richards. Even season expression on the boy's face that he he can't quite place it until he rises. It's innocent i. I don't even know what innocence looks like. It's so foreign and amelia. Williams is both innocent and ignorant of the manipulations of largest society. She happens to be in a segment of society where her life is generally safe and comfortable so she doesn't have a lot of reasons to question it whereas richards is also very ignorant about a lot of things but his discomfort. The pain of his existence makes him wanna rebel. Yeah and you see. Amelia's immediately freaked out when she beats richards now because she's getting carjacked to recognize. The is has bought into the propaganda around him. And so he's fearful for life and the only way she knows how to deal with the distal. Smoke adjoining talk about her. You know rich person existence. Basically richards tries to wake up. It's this is what life is really like. And she's like isn't it and you know the boy that you talked about who also comes across richards. He too is the same way like he doesn't believe his stories but at the same time he doesn't know what else to believe because he's been taught certain things by his father and what he sees on tv own. What's really interesting is that the contrast is bradley and bradley is not ignorant. He knows what's going on. He knows the score. He and his fellow gang members. And it's weird to call them a gang because it's so upside down right right they operate together functionally like business and the pool. Resources and their their agenda is not to do illegal things. It's to educate themselves. It's to get informed. It's to create technology in tools to help clean up the environment or at least monitor. How bad the environment is there. Agents of good in the story but they label themselves again. And i don't know if that's kings lens kind of bleeding through here or what but it's it's really interesting that they're sort of this upside down. Gang in their focus is on helping society in any way they can and that makes bradley. The perfect person for richards to meet in that richard can get the education. He needs so that he can carry on and carry on in a meaningful way. As you said it's a nice contrast how we find out that richards is pretty ignorant as well. So we've seen the story thus far entirely through his view and we obviously talked about the class difference between him and the people in the city in the network but now we see that he has been very narrow and he's had blinders on his well about things like he knew who work in atomic plant. That may cause me to a sterile and things are bad in my neighborhood but he has no idea of how bad it is. A big piece of that is that bradley has educated himself in richardson's not purchases made a point of just saying stay with my family and and not worry about anything else. Bradley is willing to go out into the bigger society and figure out what's going on and try to educate people. Yeah we get the impression that richards is an intelligent person. But he's uninformed and because he hasn't worked hard to get better informed he only really knows what he has directly observed or the propaganda that the network has fed him so even though he thinks of the network is a bad thing and he knows that the free is a bad influence. It still has only source of info. So he can just decide. That's wrong so that leaves him in this place of ignorance and just anger and rebellion. And so this is continuing the theme. That king set up the last section where we see these corporations that are willing to do just about anything for money. We saw it in the first section with the assembly line of men who are willing to basically die on tv to make money thought. Hey that's pretty bad How much worse could this society be. And then we find out. Oh no like the. The government is also polluting the world in such a way that everything is terrible and people are dying because everything is in the air. It's not just the factories where people like. Richard's work at that are irradiating them. But every time they're taking a breath hit is basically killing them because the pollution so bad and really the corporations. Just don't care because it's a way to make a buck. Yeah it seems that human life is irrelevant to them. It's not even that it's not worth anything. It doesn't matter as long as there are more people out there to keep watching tv and buy their products and make them wealthier. We don't care if only live ten years or or six years right. It's fine because they're just be more people in more consumers more customers and the rich people can afford to buy things like knows filters and other contraptions in technology to avoid the poisons in the environment. I didn't remember. And i wasn't expecting this to be as environmental of a novel as it is who it becomes very much a green novel when bradley finds out everything that he's found out and as you said he sets up these tools to help monitor the environment and then now that he what is he building air filters for his family when he can. And you know ben. Richard is aware they exist. But he's like they cost like six hundred dollars or twelve hundred dollars. Who can afford that in and bradley. Like a noman. The daily cost like two dollars. They just don't care. They're another way of making money right so you could still sell the it to the rich and overcharge them be fine and why would we make them at costs. There's no reason to exactly so we kind of touched on this a little bit and like the breakdown of the environment. The manipulation of the truth of that is kind of a big part of the story to in that it's depicting the breakdown of society itself like a second ago that the tv or the freebie is there to keep the masses dasa. And they're doing everything that you can think of the only send information that the corporation wants people to know when richards posts his video recordings to show that he's still alive. They use all the technology their disposal to edit those videos and make richard safe things he didn't actually say put him in environments where he wasn't in do things too like photos of richard's wife and make her into a less appealing version of her Over true self and and like richards. Most people's only source of info. Is this free freebie. So it's either you mostly ignore it in half no info or you watch it and you get doctored info right. It's not doctored to the technology. We have today because when richards finds out what is happening. He says something. Well at least. I got through to the lip-readers it'll be able to tell what i'm saying. Because they they obviously put different voiceovers on top of him but all this comes down to a theme that is familiar to king. And that is the scapegoating of richard's right so thinking that one person to scapegoat so we talked a little bit about this enrage which is now more red just previous to this. But it's come up again and again and we've talked about how shirley jackson is an influence on king in her famous scapegoating novel or short story the lottery but here we get it again. Where if the network can point to one person and scapegoat them to the extent. That really helps to make the people feel like. They're part of the winning group and on the right side and so maybe make them forget a little bit about how bad their lives are by pointing to somebody who is is them and not part of us. Running man is a version of a lot of things. You know the gladiatorial things like that but it's also may be the ultimate scapegoat. You broadcast the hunting of the single person to the whole world and everyone else in. The world is cheering for that person. Capture death so as long as they get that guy they can feel like they're better than someone else. That's powerful mean you can. You can just keep people distracted from their actual problems in the actual things that they should be angry about by making them artificially angry richards. Yeah and the other piece of this is the highlighting of the police and making them look at all these young young family men who were clean cut in and just doing their jobs and and richard just had to wipe them out and propping them up in a way to make it seem that richards is much worse that he is not just trying to survive in that. These people aren't really sent to to assassinate. Him is just another way. That they're they're using the freebie to to keep the masses docile but this is also the section. We talked a little about this about how education is also limited. And we've seen this in other out. Nineteen eighty-four and fahrenheit four fifty one that education is limited and especially limited for those who are poor so there is a get a library card. You have to have a certain amount of income and that's the only way you can get into the library and read and even when you get to the library not all. The books are current. So you know bradley. And his gang in order to get access to the library get access to the books. What do they. I they They still a library card from some other kid and then they they all switch around and change. They borrow the same suits that they can do. The library actually find out what the truth is. They need to work really hard and break a bunch of laws in hurt people just to get access to a library card. Which is their ticket into this source of information which you know the american library system. It's like a a bastion of of a free society. Right it the fact that anybody can go in there and access any of the books in the library. That's been a cornerstone of all the great civilizations of the world throughout history. The fact that this civilization has advanced and i. maybe. I shouldn't use the word advanced deformed maybe to the point where only the wealthiest most privileged people can even get into the library. None of them do is a sure. Sign that they're that this whole society is is corrupt. Yup surprise the king as a writer is one champion. The idea of books and illiterate society and i loved it. Bradley gets all these. Like great lines about that. In the section of the book as he's preaching to richard he says like we've been reading that freebie shit is for empty heads and like l. Yup you totally get it. And then they gave us the freebie to keep us off the street so he can breathe ourselves to death without making any trouble. How do you like that. And then later on the freebie is killing us. It's like a magician getting you to watch the cakes falling out of his helpers blouse while he pulls rabbits out of his pants and puts them in his hat like yeah go bradley. I was just like we hang out with bradley more than richards. Yeah he seems like a more interesting character. I think the final thing we should talk about in the breakdown of society is the very evident manipulation of pitting groups against one another which is a classic scheme to keep those groups from joining together to fight their true enemy. Yup which is the suppressive upper class. So we see one group of poor people against the other group of four people everybody against whereas they should all be joining forces to go against the network right right. It's hinted that early on that killian knows that that is a possibility for richards right. Like if you want to survive hang out with your people and richards takes that to heart. And that's why he ends up in places he ends up but he knows that i may have a chance if we can band together even a little bit and bradley could do a lot better by turning in richards right. He could help his sister. He can help his mom. He could help his family by getting whatever money but he knows that there's a bigger 'cause that bradley is fighting for and so he's willing to take in richardson. Help him out and show that way of you. Know if we ban together we could be stronger. Yeah and there is like a mutual benefit to richards and bradley right earlier. We said that richards is so fortunate that he runs into bradley because he couldn't have gone another day without that help. But we're you're just saying like oh yeah. Bradley could just turn richards in get out of money. Soft own problems but bradley's not interested in solving his own problems. He's interested in helping society so bumping into richer's was really fortuitous for bradley and his gang and they are going to use the running man against itself. They're gonna use the victim of the running man to i. Guess for their own causes and that means riskier. Behavior riskier decisions but with a much bigger payoff. Potentially you we talk about. How richards is intelligent but somewhat ignorant. I don't know if it's falling forward. But like he laps up with bradley's telling him right away but it doesn't take much and he said we hear there was. There is no longer just himself alone. Man fighting for his family bound to be cut down now. There were all of them out there strangling on their own respiration included. And so. it's the first time that richards is thinking like i could do more here. And even though he's getting cut off by the network and the doctor he's voc's at least making that attempt r. j. Are there any dark tower. Th unease in this section of the writing. yeah. I think we both found a a few. Let's see one thing. That i thought of as a finney was that there's a moment when richards is having a dream slash nightmare and he thinks of or has a vision of a huge police dog a terrifying organic weapon seven feet high chasing hit the terrifying but organic weapon. That is in. The shape of a dog made me. Think of the guardians of the beam. Like a shark shark dog dog. All right to bed got about you. There's this line. He grinned a huge white wolf. Grin that in itself seems powerful enough to buckle streets and melt buildings and i immediately pictured the illustration in the back of the drawing of the three. It's a picture of rolling with a giant grin. And as soon as i saw huge white wolf grin. I immediately picture that. And i'll put in show notes. That's good connection. So another thing that i found was when we were hearing about bradley's very inexpensive knows filter he said no. It's no problem you just get an atomic nugget in atomic slug and they only cost a couple of bucks. The tomek slug. It's just like the power source in the way stationing the gunslinger i dig. It not necessarily dark tower but an odd dinnie is that one of the towns that richards passes through his dairy. Ooh in fact. I think that that's where the airport that they're heading to is at. This is the first mention of dairy. The famous fictional town for stephen king. But he's obviously used it many times since then but you know if the bachman pseudonym wasn't uncovered. I wonder what would have happened. He would have had to come up with a different fake main town to us for some of his other stories. If dairy was being used in the bachmann universe or somebody would have figured it out a lot sooner. All fictional main town fictional main town huck ha ha. I got it so the final thing that i found was when richard just talking to the boy and his dog and richard make some claim that the boy doesn't believe in he says no way there's crazy dudes running the roads these days and i thought running the roads and the word dude kind of made me think of dudes named flag. I can see that indeed all right there are a couple. Yuck it up moments in this section so mine is both a yukking it up moment but also a good use of king misusing an adverb and ben richards has barely escaped his life. In escaping the ymca there's hunters that have bracketed them in the building at one point he's trapped in the sewer. There's a giant explosion that threatens to burn him up while he's in the sewer and once he gets out richard comments. What happens if someone flushes john over my head. Richards wondered morbidly. And i'm like i don't know is having like crap fall on your head really that morbid when you've almost been killed multiple times over by other things that are actually deadly but it make me think of what would happen if somebody did flusher john over your head while you're on the sewer and that is pretty yucky. I mean that assumes that when you flush the toilet when you're in the sewer that is just like a direct pipe The bottom of the toilet into the sewer area is that that. How sewer pipes works. There's this giant holes that drop from toilets street under some head you know. He's jumping from allocated alligator. That's how it works. It totally makes sense with how my understanding of sanitation engineer works. The occasional giant piranha. It's all good The yukking it. Up that i had was the torture scene of bradley and the line. That really got me was a pin slipped easily into bradley's eyeball and was withdrawn dribbling colorless fluid. Yeah that's not fun at all. No no which is why. It's not in fun stuff. It's yukking up just to be clear that is an imagined torture scene by richards yes. We don't know if any of those things happened in less richards has the shine. Yeah you never know okay. Well you can support this show and get access to exclusive patriot. Content such as bonus podcast episodes by becoming a patron visit. Patriot dot com slash. Two guys dark tower to learn more and jay. Is it true that we're to cover the running man movie in future bonus episode. Yes it is true. How on earth will people be able to listen to that. Although half the become patron damn i'm going to have to sign up today. Sounds like a good idea. Maybe i will too all right. I think it's time for some fun stuff. All right elephants stuff. I'll let you kick us off my first one bradley and stacey the two boys did richards runs into their mom is described as being very old richards. Thought he had never seen anyone his old and deadline took me back to something. That maybe franny thought or nick thought about mother abigail. They say something along those same lines like they thought they'd never seen someone that old before. Could imagine someone being that old and you know it just reminded me mother abigail. I thought that was a nice little Instance there yeah the impossibly old person so one of the things i had fun stuff is apparently in richards. World here in the world of the running man. There is such a thing as a zapruder award. This mamie chuckled. Because king has always is obsessed with the kennedy assassination. so why wouldn't there be brunner award. Indeed i liked that the man that helps richards in vermont works for vending company. And he wears the blue and gold uniform of the vendor spend. Oh company And i could just imagine in the future that all the stupid names of corporations would rhyme like that vendor spend no. It's very on the nose for a society that wants you to spend money like then doe spandau like it's focused on the fact that you need to spend your money not that you're getting anything out of it but that we want you to spend your money on us. Would you be able to buy. Laundry detergent called. Wishy-washy sandals called flipflops flippity. Floppies pretty floppies So this one made me laugh. Because one of my oldest favorite quotes from a movie from indiana jones and the last crusade. A indiana jones is using his father's grail diary to figure out the puzzle at the end of the first puzzle is only the penitent man. Show pass he says it over and over again as he's puzzling only the Only penitential pass so when richards is in the sewer under the ymca in his contorted himself until all these uncomfortable impossible positions to get through the drains. I kept thinking. He needs to kneel needs to bend he need. Only the penitent man shall pass through the drains. Only the penitent man. That's a good one. That's fun for me. No i like it. And you said that that was from indiana jones and the last crusade. Which was the last indiana jones movie ever made right. That's right yeah. No other indiana jones movies ever happened after that. It that all checks out my last fun stuff is just what i thought was a great line about a dog. This is the dog that the boy has when richards is hiking through the woods on his broken ankle. And he's at first worried that it's a police dog that's gonna come and tear them apart. But instead it's a friendly dog. And his tail flagged back and forth in vigorous semi fours of joy. I just like that. Vigorous semaphore is like. That's just a nice metaphor for for a dog. Legates dale but it's even more touching in the story a story about a horrible society from the perspective of the most trotted members of that society. That this dog's tail was sending signals in semaphore of joy. And that's kind of like what makes people love dogs right. Everything about him is happy. Happy happy to be year happy. I'm with you. It's all about the joy your great. Yeah good line okay. That's all for this episode. Two guys to the dark tower came. Thanks jay thank you links to. All of our social media is available in the show notes. If you like to show please rate aside apple podcasts to support the show visit patriot. Dot com slash. Two guys dark tower next episode. Join us as we finish our coverage of the running man chapters. Forty two two zero for j russo. I'm shocker thanks for listening. Let's recap yeah off time for a quick nap me. Give me just a minute at this time. Sean has left the room and is off. Doing something requires a moment. This time i was just narrating your absence A closed event. Sean is now left. The room again to tend to the cat not sure what's happening to the cat but it was getting very loud. No hear the sound of perhaps a cat food canned being opened.

richards bradley richard Ben richards jay russo sean mcvay Manchester richards amelia williams Bradley stephen king richardson Richards Richard jay ymca amelia Amelia shirley jackson
Morning Joe 1/6/20

MSNBC Morning Joe

51:03 min | 1 year ago

Morning Joe 1/6/20

"Against these critiques President Trump didn't say go after a cultural side re read what he said Very closely We've made clear that the cost if they use proxy forces in the region will not be born it just by those proxies They'll be born by Iran and its leadership itself. Those are important things that the Iranian leadership needs to put into. Its Calculus Calculus. Also it makes its decision so that was secretary of state. Mike Pompeo saying that the president didn't say he'd go after a culture sight reading what trump said very closely. The president on Saturday tweeted. So it's spelled out for you quote. Let this service a warning that if Iran Ron strikes any Americans were American assets. We have targeted fifty two Iranian sites representing the fifty two American hostages taken by Iran. Many years ago some at a very high level and important to Iran the Iranian culture and those targets and Iran itself itself won't be hit very fast and very hard the USA wants no more threats talking to reporters last night while flying back to Washington Santon from his seventeen day vacation. The president was asked about his threat against Iran's cultural sites which many experts say would actually constitute a war crime and and the president doubled down quote. They're allowed to kill. Our people are allowed to torture and maim our people. They're allowed to use roadside bombs and blow up our where people and we're not allowed to touch their cultural sites. It doesn't work that way. So here's where we stand on this Monday January sixth huge crowds. It's our packing the streets of Iran this morning. For the funeral of General Sulamani the Iranian Gen generals struck down on Friday by US drone. And for that what country is promising. Revenge Iran is also signaling a new push toward nuclear weapons. Tehran will no longer commit to limits on enrichment established in a twenty fifteen agreement with global powers from which the trump administration withdrew and in Iraq lawmakers makers are calling for the expulsion of US troops from the country. Something President trump met with threats of sanctions against Baghdad and a bill of billions of dollars with us this morning we have national affairs analyst for NBC News and Msnbc Jonah Edelman. He's the CO host and executive producer of showtime's Circus White House reporter for the Associated Press. Jonathan Lemaire President of the Council on Foreign Relations and the author of the book a world in disarray. Richard Poss Vice. President for Third Way's national security program and an MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR MECO Yang and columnists associate editor better for the Washington. Post David Ignatius. So Jonathan will mirror you were with the president yesterday as he actually undercut his secretary critique of state who seem to scold the members of the media for suggesting that Donald Trump ever set the United States would target Iranian raining cultural sites the president then just admitted it not only in tweets but in front of you in the press corps. Tell us about it. That's right Joe. I spent most of last last week in Palm Beach covering the president during the end of his winter. Vacation on our flight back from From Florida to Washington yesterday on board Air Force One without a half hour or so on the flight and the president called up the press cool to his cabinet at the front of the plane and proceeded to hold court touched on a number of news whereas we matters But we pressed him on this in particular and you could just read the quote. He basically contradicted but secretary of state POMPEO had said earlier in the day. Pump went on every single Sunday morning show yesterday and really stressed that the United States would adhere to the law would not target cultural sites it would be lawful and the president flat out went the other direction. Saying that As you read that you know if Iran's allowed to play by these rules why can't we to this isn't this isn't how it works. And he would not take anything off the table when we raise this issue with him. He also on the matter of Iraq earlier in the day the Iraqi parliament voted to expel. US forces from the country now. That's not a done deal. That may not happen but when we asked the president about that he said well if they're gonNA fall through with this if there's something they really want and if they won't pay US billions of dollars for joint airbase the US S. helped build there in Iraq then the US would leave and would impose crippling sanctions. He said they'd even be rougher than the ones we've put on Iran. Aw Richard I want to get to a Wall Street Journal. Editorial the paper wrote the opinion page read over the weekend and it sounded every bit of celebratory and Jingoistic as when the United States invaded Iraq in two thousand thousand three or when they captured and killed Saddam Hussein or when they killed Qaddafi and their conclusion. Is that if you question the wisdom of this strike that somehow you love Donald Trump. So much that you you don't care that a very malevolent force was taken off the globe. They go in other words so monty was a deadly menace but the US should have done nothing about his his deputations because Iran could hit back. That is appeasement not leadership they say and then they go. The Wall Street Journal writes set. Democrats say Hello Mr Trump so much so blinded democrats that they can't even praise the demise of a murderous enemy. Well you know Kim Jong UN is considered to be a murderous enemy. Do We does Wall Street Journal to other. People think we recklessly go win and assassinate Kim Jong what about Assad. We've had chances unsure to assassinate Assad and so Richard can you because I know you saw Sola Monte like me as a an extraordinarily dangerous force across the Middle Eastern an enemy of the United States of America. But just because you're concerned about the assassination of this Iranian leader does that mean that you loathe Donald Trump. So much that that you can't see straight look throughout history. We've been up against any number of figures who we load than who targeted Americans. It doesn't doesn't mean that taking them out or trying to overthrow regimes. We don't like it makes sense for American foreign policy. I think you've always got to ask yourself self even if you gain in the narrow by getting rid of an individual do you gain in the large and when I looked at the Middle East. I don't understand how we benefit from increasing the degree of conflict and violence in that part of the world making ourselves as well as our friends much more vulnerable and then taking a step back. I don't understand how this is good for the United States. Even this this administration. Let's just judge it by what it says it says. The principal challenges facing the United States are no longer in the Middle East in part because we've reached a degree of energy self-sufficiency but they're in Asia. China with North Korea others would say in in Europe with Russia descending thousands of American troops in the Middle East and by the way. They're so busy now protecting themselves. They can't fight terrace. How does that leave US safer safer? How does that make strategic sense? So you know people like me look at this and they just take a step back and they say yeah. I understand the logic of going after after somebody bikes Sola money in the abstract but in reality is the United States safer does this contribute to our global strategic a position and I would simply say on balance absolutely not we have been mired in the Middle East now for the best part of two decades this administration as well as the previous one. We're dialing that down this now. dials up dramatically in a way that again. We're we're going to be far more vulnerable. They're far less able to advance our adventures around the world and arguably also far more vulnerable and I suspect Donald Trump still has no idea how much This is GONNA dial up conflict in the Middle East because in that interview we played you of him talking to Hughhewitt on Friday. He didn't even know who Soleimani was mis identified him as a Kurd after a Hugh Hewitt was trying to lead them that direction. David Ignatius us. You and I spoke. It seemed daily for very long time about the Iranian nuclear deal. I was opposed to it. You so You are a newsman. You stay down the mentally. I think you called it a cosmic cosmic bat a cosmic gamble gamble but there are a lot of us who opposed the honey nuclear deal. Who after the deal was done said? Well we've we've transferred the money. The deals in place it holds them and check for fifteen years Europe's going to stay shoulder to shoulder with Iranians trainings. Anyway US pulling out at this point doesn't seem to make a lot of sense but now we find ourselves in a place where the Iranians I had committed to fifteen years of nuclear freeze and that just went away over the weekend they are. Their nuclear program has started back up up and fair. Joe Is you say. The Iranians have announced they're suspending cooperation with this agreement. Goes to the basic question secretary. Prompt peyot raised or asserted that were safer now. Because of the actions Thursday night and killing General Selemani money And the suspension of cooperation with a nuclear agreement is is one aspect of how we're not safer but there are others that may prove the more important. We have had the stop our operations against Isis. A battle against a vicious terrorist group that was sustained sustained through two administrations. The announcement came over the weekend. That's over for now reason. We simply don't have enough assets enough surveillance drones and other overhead assets to protect our forces everywhere and also conduct this operation our relationship with Iraq a crucial Fushun building block of more stable region appears to be a kind of casualty. Collateral damage of of this operation are the Iraqi prime minister has been a supporter of the US Essentially led the parliament vote To move move toward pushing us out. And then trump in a classic moment of of mis-reaction the thunder that the would sanction Iraq harder. The need sanction the erotic. Its way if you wanted to ensure that somebody in that part of the world would not be willing to compromise. You make a statement like fat and and finally we're now in a position where our leaders sharp military leadership is basically hunkered down across the Middle East waiting for what they fear are going to be attacked in multiple locations. That's why the the the the the demand for ISR overhead surveillance surveillance assets is so is so enormous. They feared. This could come in many places at once. So that's where we are after Thursday night and the terrible thing. Joe Is that some things come at you by surprise. This was predicted over and over again when the issue came up what would be the consequences killing slow money. This has been rehearsed for ten years and each time. The answer is the same. You'll you'll end up with with fewer benefits and more arrests same thing with the maximum pressure on Iran on the nuclear deal. If you do this it will not push toward negotiations it will. It will stiffen their resistance to to negotiations. Those two predictions by the intelligence analysts are being worn out before is right now. Here live pictures and Tehran on predictable. All of this is very predictable. And again I I must say it was surreal over the weekend. I think most most people looking At what had happened. Were wise enough to say they have no idea where this goes but what shocked me was again those who were celebrating the death as a great military victory for the United States of America. I just I wonder where they've Ben. For the past sixteen years seventy percent of Americans myself included supported going into Iran because we were told there were weapons of mass destruction we captured Saddam Hussein Iraq. Excuse me we captured Saddam Hussein Saddam. Hussein was killed chaos as spread through that region for the past sixteen years the same thing with Moammar Gaddafi he actually turned his. WMD's over to the United States went in and killed Moammar Gaddafi chaos continues to spread across the region for those actions Do we really believe in twenty nineteen that the killing of one man to the killing of Osama bin Laden sudden. What the what happened after that? Well there's a rise of Isis. That would have probably happened with or without that killing but again Mika those cetera acting as if as if this is some sort of board game and we knocked King off the table or just ignorant of history let let us hope hope for the best and let us read all agree that this guy was a malevolent force. I've always said Iran on the epicenter of terrorism and has been since nineteen seventy nine and he was the chief terrorist in that epicenter of terrorism. But he was also attached to a government. That's extraordinarily influential if the Iraq war strengthened Iran and its most certainly did judge. It's hard to see how this doesn't drive us. Even further away from the influence and power in Iraq and throughout that region. Hey It's Chris as you know sometimes it's good to just take a step back from the day to day onslaught of news and take our broader. Look at the issues. That's what I'm I'm doing each week on my podcast. Why is this happening? Were exploring topics ranging from school segregation to climate change. Well the way that I think of it is. Climate Change will be to the twentieth century. What Madeira not west of the nineteenth century? It'll be the central subject of questions about economic justice. Everything that you care about in the world will be affected by climate and digging deep with guests uniquely qualified. Oh five to analyze issues from mass incarceration to race relations as you know for the first time in our history at the national level whites are on the verge of losing their majority status in twenty years. And I think it's no coincidence that our politics are getting more tribal. Join me for. Why is this happening? New episodes every Tuesday. Wherever you get your podcasts the main military advisor or to Iran's supreme leader tell CNN that Tehran would retaliate directly against US military sites? The former defense minister said quote. It might be argued that there could be proxy operations. We can say America. Mr Trump has taken action directly against us so we take direct faction against America. He said quote. Our reaction will be wise well-considered end in time with decisive deterrent. Effect and Added quote the only thing that can end this period of war is for the Americans to receive a blow that is equal to the blow they have inflicted did afterward. Fay should not see canoe cycle. Wow Miko Yang. Let's go there. You know there were some messages from homeland. Security that American citizens in America could be at risk who is really at risk now that this rock has been thrown into a wasp's costs nest. Well very certainly. American troops in the region are very much at risk. The Iranians I think are trying to keep escalation with in the military sphere. Executing Sulamani was a very big escalatory. Step here but he was a military target and so they are going to respond in kind. I think for most Americans here in the United States. They're physically going to be okay. Iran has not demonstrated much ability to pull whole off kinetic attacks inside the United States. You may recall. They tried to take out the Saudi ambassador here in the United States and that did not work well for them so I think most Americans will be fine but it's really important to remember that Iran is a very capable cyber actor and the attack that crippled the city of Atlanta was Iranian in origin. So will you can expect that. We might see cyber attacks against American targets inside the United States. John Thune Mir. It is interesting yesterday that you're both Iranians and the leader of Hezbollah said our attacks will be on the United States military and not against the American people people and I think it was the leader of Hezbollah who even said attacking. American civilians would only play into DONALD TRUMP's hands. It seems again. They're going to choose desert targets wisely and going to make sure that it doesn't empower donald trump politically joe taking back inside the scene at Air Force One yesterday. It's surreal moment. I'm in his press cabin. There was an NFL football game. The seahawks eagles were on the screen behind. At one moment the president even mentioned like kind of a dull game today while he was talking about the possibility ability of retaliation we. I posed the question to him as to whether he expected them. What would it be like? And he almost accepting of it he shrugs and said if it happens it happens and then warned warned Iran that were they to strike back of course the US would hit even harder and again would not rule out any sort of tax on cultural sites. So John Hammond. We also asked awesome about the intelligence that he received that allows them to justify this attack. And let's remember. This is a president who had time and again has cast doubt on the US intelligence agencies. NC's had did not want to believe them with their conclusions about Russia's involvement in the two thousand sixteen election has even repeatedly of course question. You know the Italians that led to the two thousand and three war with Iraq. So he's not making this case. Be Notified Congress provided the War Powers Act. This was justified but does this. President have had enough credibility ability to make this case to both Congress and the American public. Well I think the answer to that is no in the sense that we're kind of reached his Islamic Jonathan. I think we're over the last three years. We've sat and waited for this day in some sense the day where the president will be confronted with a genuine foreign policy crisis says either of his own making were thrust upon him taking basically took three years. And now we're here. In this case it's foreign policy crisis that was in some part in some measure driven by Iran and and some measure driven by the president and his provocation their provocations counter-provocation. In this case I think this is the thing that we talked about. The the moment would come when the president stands at the brink of on the edge of war potentially leading the country into this kind of conflict. It's the moment when the reserves of the capital store of credibility is most necessary and not just because of his attacks on the intelligence agencies. Not just although partly because of those partly because of all the things we've seen over the last three years but most fundamentally the fact that even the president's biggest fans acknowledged the fact that he is a pathological liar and it's told lie after lie after lie. Hi We now have these running counters. Thirteen thousand lives over the course of three years. Those eventually going to take a toll they are going to eventually have a piper will be paid and I think this is the moment almond where that could be the case because there are something like fifty percent of the American people who don't believe a word. The President says about anything let about matters that are trivial. These are not matters offers that are triggered. These are matters that are incredibly profound. And I guess David Ignatius. I want to ask you this question exhibit reading you carefully over these last few days is this is starting to kind of unfold. In addition to that question the question of the president's credibility and what happens when a president who has none or at least who has squandered all of it. Let's say with a good half of the American America people what happens in a circumstance like this where that president who is known for his chaotic leadership. Style to begin with now comes under the kind of scrutiny that we see the the tick tock of how these decisions were made so on one side you have the president that has in my judgment. I think a lot less credibility with the American people that you would need need the circumstance. If you were going to have the support of a broad swath the American public you also have a president whose behavior in other. Instances scrutinized carefully raises doubts and qualms concerns. But in this case. Is there anything that you've seen about how this decision was made. That gives you comfort that this is being made. These decisions are being made aide in an orderly rigorous disciplined responsible way or. Is this another issue for trump at this point where the reading about how this decision was made raises a pretty profound doubts about his leadership style. John My reporting tells me that the president after after the attack on December twenty seven that kill the US contractor near Kirkuk was presented with a menu of options for retaliation taliation. He in that instance chose to strike at the Shiite militias in Iraq That caused a lot of Death Twenty Ninety five of the Bushmen were killed then attacked the embassy and I think that let's images of the attack on the American embassy in Baghdad Were really haunting for trump and for his advisors of some like sector. I say pompeo views agitated so much about Benghazi. The loss of American life in in Benghazi so a new set of options was put to the president. And I'm told that although CQ killing taking out Qasim Somalia was one of those options. Options that Some of the commanders under under president trump were surprised that he chose that one they follow the orders of the commander in chief but the commanders. No because they've been through this many times about the dangers the knock on consequences of such a decision that that they are now now honey down across the region that they're they've had to suspend some of the operations that are most important to them. So simple answer. Your question is Our military is advising the president. They're giving him options. He is the decider and our best Guarantee of it's good sense. Is that those advisors are the are the same Experience People's before Richard Haass. We've talked at length over the past several a years about the dangers of having a president having a commander in chief that had no previous governmental experience had previous military experience. Had No real interest and studying America's history or foreign policy or constitutional norms that most of adjust was just came from the guy that was his gut instincts and he would tell L. U.. That is well if you read art of the deal. He bragged about never preparing never reading. Just showing up and seeing. What would happen? Well I I want to ask you. Where are we now? As a nation in terms of of our relationship with our allies never mind our enemies or allies but we have a president who has When it comes to Iraq when it comes to Iran where were the rock? He's he's talked about breaking the Geneva Convention by seizing oil and lands that we invade. He's now talking about targeting an Arabian cultural cultural sites. And never mind what the government spends since one thousand nine hundred seventy nine. It's got one of the most extraordinary histories one of the most extraordinary cultures on the planet and then of course the targeting of really in effect the number two person in Ron who is being groomed to be president of that country or some other top civilian position and while the s it could be argued. That was legal. Can you artery argued that your Financial Times piece this weekend at the same time Richard. We're going into territory that we used to condemn Third World countries and the Soviet Union for going into something just because something may have been legal and I say may because the imminence it's case in no way has been proven doesn't mean it was smarter strategically wise. So let's just let's just put that to the side but what we're seeing. Joe Is essentially at America. I there's a lot of us to set a long as increasingly America alone. So we're going after Iraq now. We're threatening Iraq with sanctions. Not only does that make it more likely. US troops will be kicked out but it increases Iraq's potential dependence on Iran or Russia or others plus the sanctions if we ever put them into effect would weaken Iraq's walks ability to to challenge terrorists on their territory. Incomprehensible to me. We get out of the two thousand fifteen nuclear agreement alone. We don't have the Europeans ends or or anybody else with us. We threaten the cultural sites in Iran. And all that does is get to rally around the government man. And you know I think you know all of this raises questions about American exceptionalism so rather they Richard. Can I interrupt you for one second and can you just for for people that haven't been paying close attention to Iran over the past three or four months you said it gets all of the Iranians to rally around the leadership talk about the favor. Donald Trump did the Iranian leadership. who was facing the worst protests since nineteen seventy benign since its founding in one thousand nine hundred ninety nine there were two interesting narratives going on in the middle leave stove in the last couple of weeks and months suggest one was the one inside Iraq? Doc where the Iraqis in many ways it turned on the Iranians. And what we've done is we've interrupted that and instead now the Iraqis are turning on the United States and then within Iran itself to give the president some do his sanctions had increased economic hardship within Iran people had turned against the government to some extent extent. I don't want to exaggerate it. But people were questioning all the money that Iran with spending on its foreign policy rather than on the quality of life a- At home but again now that narrative has been interrupted and instead people are being feel compelled to rally around the government either because us they mourn Sulamani because to distract against a cultural sites. What I've been arguing all along as we should have said publicly to people in government? Tehran you've been doing all these things we sanctioned you but we will stop sanctioning you if you behave responsibly. If you stop your nuclear program if you stop stop Subversion and so forth and then the government of Iran would have had it explained to its own people why it rejected potential sanctions relief because it was following doing this this confrontational foreign policy. We've done just the opposite. We have not given the Iranian people any hopes of a better future. We've not forced to the Iranian government to defend it. It's ways we have actually taken them off the hook. Just one the face one of the real crises of the Iranian revolution all right. Let's bring in. NBC News National Security and military correspondent. Courtney Kuby With a whole new dynamic in the region troops heading in Iraqi is wanting us out. What are you hearing? That's right so we know that the one battalion of the eighty second airborne called the immediate Response Reaction Force face out of Fort Bragg. They were brought brought in last week specifically in response though to the protests in Baghdad and the threat against the. US Embassy there will the additional two battalions plus some more eighty second airborne troops started moving in over the weekend. They're moving into Kuwait. Some into Iraq as sort of a regional stability is what the military is calling them they're there to provide security to US troops and installations throughout the region but in addition to that there's an entire brigade of the hundred seventy seventy third aviation brigade airborne Airborne Brigade based out of Italy. That's on alert. In case they need to be brought in to Lebanon to protect the US embassy there US allies US installations affiliations. Whatever they could be threatened there and now we also have an amphibious ready group? That's in the region that and including a Marine Expeditionary Unit which is about in two thousand two thousand five hundred marines that are also in the region and could be brought in as well if needed so we have an enormous number when you look at where the US military was just a week or ten days ago versus where they are now the number of troops that are now flowing into the region or on alert to be brought in. Its up tremendously from where it was is this is not just because of the death of Qassem Soleimani Mika though this is also because of the protests Baghdad the US strikes the strikes at the took last weekend in Syria and Iraq against Qatar Hezbollah there was an increased threat from that so the US military footprint there has already changed it looks. It is a potential to grow even more Mika. NBC's Courtney Kuby thank you very much at this point Joe What's your make given given that troops are potentially moving preparing this changes everything and could be launching us into something quite big again. I it suggests that the president of the the United States who did not even know who General Sulamani was a few years ago had no idea what he was getting into had no idea the size of the Hornet's nest I that he was kicking. This is leading. He's already had to send more troops over to the Middle East after this attack. Of course Couple weeks ago. We reported that he was sending more troops to Saudi Arabia for a president who said he wanted to get out of the Middle East for a president who said had he didn't want to be an assessed with the Middle East and their endless wars. The way that George W Bush and Barack Obama hat the Actions Shins of this past week will ensure that his administration will be just as a captive to to violence coming out of the Middle East as both Barack Obama and George W Bush's administration until Donald Trump leaves office still ahead on morning. Joe Reports suggest jess several officials were caught off guard by the killing of the Iranian general. But Not Mike Pompeo who was reportedly a leading voice in urging urging the president to pull the trigger. You're watching morning Joe. We'll be right back. Why are you convinced if there is an imminent operational attack getting put together against American interests? Why are you convinced the taken out Sulejmani done anything to stop it? We would have been culpably negligent. Had we not taken this action American people would have said that we weren't doing the right thing to protect tech defend America lives. President trump has been crystal clear. Is it that imminent is what the attacks he was putting together so in it and so big. It would have been seen as that kind of negligence negligence made the right decision There's lots of intelligence you've seen some of it's out in the public hurt. The death of the American on December twenty seven I intelligence on the go forward basis of risk. The president made the right decision so was the justification in that. He's been this stabilizing force in the region for so long was the justification this imminent threat chuck. It's it's never one thing you've been at this a long time. The American people are smart to. It's never one moment is never one instance. It's a collective say it's a false situational awareness of risk when you say the attacks were imminent. How were they were talking about days? We talking about weeks. If you're an American in the region days and weeks this is not something that's relevant. We have to prepare to be ready and we took a bag off the battlefield secretary of State Mike pompeo appearing on all oh five Sunday morning shows yesterday. Meanwhile the Washington Post citing. US officials reports pompeo spoke to trump multiple times every day last week after the attack on the US embassy in Baghdad and that Pompeo along with Vice President Mike Pence urged him to kill L. Sulamani on December twenty nine th the post reports that Pompeo Defense Secretary Mark Espera and the chairman of the joint chiefs traveled to mar-a-lago ago where the two defense officials presented puzzle responses to Iranian aggression including the option of killing Sulamani. The report says trump's. This decision came as a surprise and shock to some officials briefed on his decision given the Pentagon's longstanding concerns about escalation and the president's residents aversion to using military force against Iran. John a an official in the Middle East told me the night of the soul Monte killing but he at least took comfort by the fact that the palm peyot was a grown-up that would be in the room. It ends up. According to the reports over the past twenty four hours. You said it was that quote grownup that actually pushed on trump to this act of brinkmanship on Iran right and yes it does appear to be that that appears to be the case. That piece of reporting is now. I think pretty consistent across multiple outlets well source reporters so I think we can. We can sort of take. Take that to the bank at this point and I I do think to go back to a theme that you raised in In the first block this morning which is all of us needing to be not a To Fall into the trap of Asia and try to be historically aware you think back to the Gulf to the Iraq war and there are no no perfect precedents here but in the same way that you know there were these arguments made. The kinds of arguments may be made now about Soleimani there were made about about Saddam Hussein in back in two thousand to two thousand and three you have this cadre of advisors around Donald Trump who are very much like the neo cons around George W Bush who had the agenda coming coming into the administration of trying to find a way to get Saddam Hussein out of power and took nine eleven as a an unjustified in that case case excuse to move on on Iraq you have I think in this case a similar kind of consistency. If there's one thing that Mike Pompeo has been as known for for long before it became sectors state long before he went to the CIA long before he became associate with Donald Trump. was his hawkish on around. This is a this is a kind of move that Mike Pompeo as favourite for a long time and again we don't want it is the case so many bad guy. I have not heard very many Democrats who've not been willing to acknowledge that the world is better off without solidarity in it at the same time. The question of why now the questions that Richard Haass Ignatius have been raising are out there and I do think that that one has to look at this cadre advisers around Donald Trump. Mike pompeo foremost among them who've been looking for an excuse to make this kind of a hawkish move against Iran. For a long time. I saw the opportunity here with the attack on the on the embassy in Baghdad and said let's go and Donald Trump was. I think for largely emotional reasons again. Based the reporting we've been reading for emotional reasons were pushed was pushed into a position that he would never ever have imagined advocating or pursuing when he was a presidential candidate never well of course he in fact he said just the opposite right For for years leading up to his presidential run and while he's on the campaign ain't over the past three years. So David Ignatius. The question is what why. Why brakemanship? Why this active brinkmanship manship when Iran was on the defense I think about think about their actions thinking about them striking out at Saudi Arabia? Thinking about I think about them shooting down an American drown. Think about all the other things said they were doing That yes the killing of the American contractor was a a great tragedy but there's no body in the Middle East. There's nobody in the United States that doesn't suggest the killing of Sola money will lead to many many more deaths than just one it same that the United States had Iran on the run they again. The protests may they now have been destabilizing the government the long run but the Iranians. We're facing the worst internal dissent since nineteen eighteen seventy nine since their founding forty years ago worse than the fit ascend two thousand nine so why is it reminded of my towards professors said. I'm not going to take the chestnuts out of the fire for you. You're going to have to do this yourself. It seems that we we have done just that for the Iranians instead of facing internal dissent. Now they're facing a more unified country than ever before for instead of facing pushback from the Iraqis who are actually starting to tire of Iranian influence. It is is now the Iraqis who were turning on the United States of America. Why this this brinkmanship why now what will be the rewards awards politically over the next ten years? Well Joe Obviously. We can't predict the future one way or the other but I think one reason that the president took this. This very militant action was a fear that he had but his advisors even more starting with Pompeo but because because he had acted with relative restraint through the summer as Iran staged provocations attacked shipping in the Gulf shutdown down. US surveillance drone took out fifty percent of Saudi Arabia's oil refining capacity briefly the US did nothing effectively ably in response to those Iranian provocations. There was a fear that we were losing our ability to deter Iran. And I think that fear on President Trump's part I'm looking weak I keep saying I wanNA negotiate. I sent Shinzo Ave the Japanese prime minister of Tehran. They scoffed at am. I sent sent my corona talked to them. They I I think increasingly trump Felt that his hopes for negotiation. We're going nowhere this is what Happens in in wars. This process of miscalculation we don't see your own inherent advantages we. I David let longer. But let me interrupt. Let me interrupt David. But he had a chance to shoot down reigning drown in response to the shooting down of an American drown around that would have been proportional. That would have been understood. He could have targeted a military target somewhere again. UAE Why such a disproportionate act when all it's going to do is keep Donald Trump and. US troops oops entangled in the Middle East for years to come Joe. You know the terrible truth is that if you don't take those relatively modest oddest proportional responses along the way you build up a big stack of self confidence on the other side and then you think think you've got to take an overwhelming decisive step which obviously president trump decided to take and killing this iconic figure of Iranian revolution. uh-huh I've been hearing from our military commanders for months this concern that the Iranians don't seem to be getting the message through various channels. We've US lots of channels canal's to send a message to Iran the last six months. Knock it off. They they just took tried to take our consulate and Basser in southern Iraq back in December December we had to evacuate it message. Knock it off and they have not gotten those messages. So that's part of how we get here is inadequate deterrence. Signaling wasn't received. We do have to put a lot of blame on Iran. Here Iran has continued to push for its unilateral advantage in part. Because it's embattled at home it feels. We're waging economic war but that's how we get get here is miss signals and then overwhelming probably you know inappropriate Decision making in the end by the US and then now we think how do we how we try to read this. So we don't end up in general war. You know. Jonathan will mirror. That's that's the great frustration At least for me. Let me speak for myself. The Iranian down a drone. We do nothing. The Iranians target target. Saudi oilfields. Nobody does anything. They're allowed to do to stir chaos in Bosnia nothing happens. We finally respond respond with with the embassy assault But help us understand As a White House reporter how Donald Trump seemingly have decided to appease the Iranians one one time after after another after another to such a point that we were actually stating on this show just last week that the president's refusal to ever respond to their acts of aggression or only going to empower them even more. But how does the president go from refusing to shoot down on Iranian drone or responding in kind signed there to actually targeting the number two person in Iran. Which of course seemed to say? That's a say over modulation one. Is I think an understatement. Well let's start by taking a step back to his campaign where he sort of presented contradictory and at times incoherent current foreign policy vision. Where one hand? He would say that he wanted to remove troops from these forever wars. pull us out of the Middle East but at the same time say he was going to bomb the hell out of Isis that he sort of wanted it both ways and yesterday aboard Air Force One. He told us how actually Slovenia someone he'd been watching for a while. He was knew that he was a threat that he was. He was particularly impressed with his sort of rhetoric. He felt like he was someone who was able to to tobacco. Better phrase fire up the other side and then he realized he was danger. That's according to our reporting an echoing with the Washington Post. Has We reported as well over the weekend. When he was presented this array of This menu of options after that contractor was killed and after the the. He's storming of the embassy. He immediately seized upon the most dramatic one calling for this for this strike and they spent a few days his aides sort of taken aback. Not Not sure quite have the justification for it. They spend days gathering intelligence. They represented to him the day of the attack and he but he was firm. He's like this is what I want to do. Even we're of what consequences may come so Richard. I saw you sort of shaking your head and we were going along. There talked to us just a little bit about what does happen next next. This is something. It's a potentially tinderbox air. We're seeing this footage of the streets of Tehran. You know what. What sort of response can they deliver? Tehran risk delivering. I mean what should Americans expect the Minnesota say all. This was baked into the cake over three years ago when we basically got out of the nuclear agreement and we practiced the economic warfare against Iran. Of course they were going to respond so we lit a fuse and we are now where we are because of a process. It's as if shot shot. The no one ever said to this president if you confront these guys first economically then militarily they will respond and this will set in motion a series of events that that are inconsistent with America first and consistent with focusing on China or North Korea. No one ever pointed out the contradiction to him appears where we didn't internalize it and its policy but now we're already seeing two things that Iran is doing one is the first serious moves to get out of the two thousand fifteen nuclear agreement. which at some point will present us in Israel and others? There's a big choices to make. The other is Iran is going to increase the odds that we are forced to depart Iraq. And that will increase Iranian influence over and that also I think will leave Iraq Iraq much more vulnerable to terrorism after that Iran has any number of devices whether it's cyber whether it's losing using militias the thing about what country haven't we heard a lot from Saudi Saudi Arabia. Why so you're got hammered? A few weeks ago. Iran Iran has also options against the Saudis. Who are not self-sufficient in the Saudis? No they can't necessarily count on us. What triggered this? It was more than anything else. That was an American died. What if the Iranians basically go around the world the Middle East and say so long as we avoid killing Americans happens we can do all sorts of things to raise the price of the United States by hurting their friends by hurting their their allies? So Ron has time it can choose. What the great irony of this is? Donald Trump has now seated the strategic initiative to Iran. The answer to question is whenever Iran watch wherever they want they now can decide to what extent the United States has to focus on dealing with threats in the Middle East. This is now we've now moved from a strategic situation where we had the initiative we were going to focus more on China and North Korea. What have you more at home to now? Iran has the strategic edition. They could decide whether we have to react to whatever it is they might do around the Middle East and Richard. The greatest danger may in fact be the Saudis and other American allies around the region. You're exactly right. Donald Trump is not going to respond military militarily to any acts of aggression from this point on certainly not in an election year unless an American is killed and less direct. American target is struck which is why the Saudis have expressed concerns and other Gulf allies of expressed. I grave concerns about what the Americans did but I just want to push back just a little bit on what you said before you said that it was America who lit the fuse Getting out of the deal and putting these harsh restrictions on the Iranians I was Sumani and the Iranians who helped prop up Assad side and helped helped push for that bloodbath in Syria that ended up killing five hundred thousand people and causing the the greatest refugee crisis since World War Two it was Sulamani and the Iranians of course who continue to prop Hezbollah who continue a to target American troops not only in Iraq but around the globe and tried to kill American troops across the globe. So so I think I'm taking note of. Is You saying that it was we who lit the fuse. The Iranians have been aggressive. You've been enemies to our allies. They've been enemies to the United States of America. It seems that of course the uranium are responsible on for much of whatever befalls moving forward. Joe So let let me let me. Clarify Iran is not a status quo power. They are an imperial country. They they wanted to increase Surani and influence throughout the Middle East. Obviously Iraq Syria Lebanon for for decades and they had been succeeding. What I said we lit it diffuses? We basically rather than fighting them back in many cases where they were pushing. We weren't fighting them back for example in Syria instead. What we took was the one area where Iran was complying with its obligations to nuclear area whether you liked the agreement or not? They weren't compliance with it. We took ourselves out of that. And then we basically committed economic warfare against them directly. And we didn't give them a diplomatic offering. That is where the roots of this current aren't Crisis Are you. You're right. We Iran had been a problem for years and all sorts of ways. And that's why we were doing a lot of what we were doing in Iraq and we had other options options for helping other countries and as you said a few minutes ago when they did things against Saudi Arabian we could and should have done things directly against them there but we took it to them directly and we didn't give them an alternative so we kept escalating. They have now responded. And that's why we've been on this show talking about the potential for exactly. This is that because there was no structure. Diplomacy the danger of the United States and Iran. Stumbling into a war has been there for three years and we are finally now on the brink of stumbling into it everyone. It's Willie geist. Thanks for listening now. I want to invite you to talk to us here at MSNBC. We'd like to know more about you. And the topics we'd be interested in hearing about as we look to launch new podcast text. PODCAST two six six eight six six and we'll text through a link to a short survey again text. The word podcast two six six eight six six standard text messaging rates. Apply your input matters and we're looking forward to hearing from you.

President Trump Iran Iraq US president America Middle Eastern Joe President Mike Pompeo David Ignatius Baghdad Tehran Saddam Hussein Tehran Hezbollah Richard Poss Vice Saudi Arabia
Stacebob & The Dweebs - 'Cadillacs and Dinosaurs'

Stacey's Pop Culture Parlour

35:08 min | 2 years ago

Stacebob & The Dweebs - 'Cadillacs and Dinosaurs'

"The twenty sixth century mankind. Faces epic struggle for survival. The forces of nature have spun wildly out of control. Mighty cities have crumbled and the dinosaurs have returned to reclaim the earth. Miss savage land. One man, stands alone. Jack ten Ren dependent manage in a world gone mad a world where only the strong survive a world of Cadillacs and dinosaurs lovely listening people will have put this area's for some reason only am stays on the host of the podcast. I spoke do he the wrong Iranian through self Benham? Really sorry. What's the show? This is way on foot to watch cartoons yell Deepak. I by deeps, and they are to me this one. Dokan on. I it's on. Yeah. What makes it up these tongue? So I always lean with which I because he's always been this is rich. A film that we need to purchase these podcast boy saying we need to pre Feis Dunkin prefight speaking these putting cast ill. So pretty face was already shipped by villain. Okay. So being rich state up until seven o'clock this morning, watching wrestlemainia and even the rich technically get more sleep than me because he fell asleep at the watching competitor real flu yet doesn't count who. He wasn't good. You're going to be lighten and to be fair. We did have to Kate. Why can you because you head kept willing backwards in almost not Nagoya was seeing ready close behind only have to because there wasn't that much. We're in between the titans, probably not. Anyway, it was a busy probe of. We did wrestlemania Netware really tell it. So you in wrestlemainia all I was in real ones of you. Yeah. With code him. A command on dinner rices because our control myself, two minutes on new into continental champion, you know, in constant champion GAM, definitely on the Tobel syndrome champion any ruined point. Tell him being confidence. How the bases when financed? Trying to get into tabbies. And then you. Continent. Everything anyway. So basically on this is that Duncan's going to have to carry this show. So who knows what's gonna happen? So do you want to tell us what show you the people? Well, that was episode VC's of spice Boven, the to offer forgot what number walls, and then I went to check in that. Don't put the episode bring titles for the tunnels still because it's too many words to put like stifle van Dev's episode. Richard can rooted confused now. Fucking muffing. It's the feel like it more. But I don't look teen. Nice numbers Levin while I choke. He's everybody remembers that. Oh, really? So chose as big surprise seen as being. Yep. So Tyler anything kelce appre hell, sue, pres ally, chose Cadillacs and dinosaurs coal, which only really Lloyd's. But you put in Seeheim press his thing here is the actually was genuinely quite impressed books. I am toilet through a lot. Even in the out in even in the Coton it it's not very cold. It's very hot open e n cold, okay was essentially, some people are in not a Cadillac eclipse, some coin drugs and get done ambush. Boy, mine cold hammer. Some also paying attention in Russa Rooney comment you in which clock how mum Hama Zuma have back full circle. I think comes back to Hamilton as old things should. Yeah. And I were talking about stuff and all our, Dan what the fuck is happening. But then the intro happened fully explained what was happening in high in the twenty century sheets gone down, but intro is also east. Good janati. Excellent. Because he featured a court Jesse will luggage. Join to do yet date on. Yes. Everyone wanted just visit all of the burning tuna interval hall. On never know. What what songs bans do and some so glad when people just say one of the you don't know what? Sometimes people but gone don't use journey not knowing what to see and then have to figure out from that. William little drink drinking drinking have been to-. We're may rakes rates because it's wall to manage to remain to the regular one is good. Is it fizzy? Or is it not these physics is fizzy fizzy fizzy Rameez, watermelon Strobe rampage. She hours. I'm confused ball been out still goes still not Chinese. Will not let us arraignment X Dr distribute name relate of side, empower flop a Boeing touch flat. It wants to Boivin to- still nail call. Especially when we calls like super cold warrior. Do they make vim Toshio boy leaking open? So. Yeah. This I Vince so naturally fizzy not signs. I genuinely comes out Togoimi's in genuinely one of our makes mold in tons of city. It will probably be terrible. But moly Vincenzo move. No. Can you make it more? No. We will meet off any put cinnamon seeking something. Are you most shorty sticking engine as you mall? It's not easy most of appreciable inevitable mall in mole after that's not. How us the bad going missiles? Yes. The guy from is the bad guy from Mr. mom. He was missed a craft in spring teenage with. We. Moguls? Noise. You've news is implant he's in on Sahra. Remember the teacher from Sabrina the teenage which you didn't like her nationalize mail who's in clue and in on Ceara. And these Britain's that in community to the things that you have all These Mr mom. Plays residing on last a week ago. He plays the also boss, miss them. I'm not seeing Mr. mom sets. But he's in a really called Pisces. Not see missing. You have not seen Mr. mom does not change. The fact that the venerable Martine mole was in eight eastern palm van in yeses element of not not. He was in a few episodes of Rhode Island's never seen is Anita. Anyway, you know, what he's in? Yes. So gone from. What's key Talia move? Just she threw off. Son teuer sound like I could get heated dog. These. It's just bad day. Oh god. This has come Koi off the road team. I think the confusion anybody's feeling from listening to this is what you were feeling from the first all dinosaurs. Because the first episode like ascites ours at ya Celik. Wayne along on real. In the future some shit happened. So the people went lived underground for me. And then when I came back, Donna cels back for some reason, unknown ongoing blatantly just reform of magma. Yeah. Post-apocalyptic Atkins that he stood on about Kenin about goal. The what was the scene by like, I'll? This said reflect the thinking nine was not befitting of Macroom. Eve we lose more China's. She finally to rip off of magma. These things are all core interest in Obata is these court heavy for let for Khantun 'cause it's all politics in spook. Illness is probably fair to say for anybody. If it wasn't seen this or read the comics based on connote will eighteen mid mid to late eighties, very poll piece, comfortable codes our tails, so they've ninja told that. Whereas there so tone down the violence to the point where people will throw punches. But they never connect unusually. Yes, let's it roll fighting. They do don't they lie to the point where somebody swings on vine instead of kicking them. They some of their house. You could put me get more white on our could squeeze altuve just to confess. Just a really robust in just a little just Otellini respectful. You know that be so one of those ones that just sent. Oh that was yes. You know, anyway. We're the distant future was twenty six centuries. That's what the future the two thousand. Can we go? Zito the paypal's junk. Referencing boosted rowing. No now. Okay. Of the concord our on Bush did his three days trying to stay. Everyone leaves them towards the different. It's really fucking different chiller that so Mike no sense. Also above twenty relatives. What you need not song underwater bone. Great. Great great. Great granddaughter. What everyone knows? Suit is loose. The eagles the come to the microphones cough for move to North America. Ghost? Spooky you sound like the reverberate in memory of somebody like reminding someone not to do it. Don't don't get too close to the microphone. Oh, you'll be. Joke that nobody's going to understand. Let's daily since what was it for episode fifty of the parliament we got drunk a bit into a debate about members superman. Golf, a very actor really weird way. Telling kids not to eat too much chocolate. This certainly I'm sure it didn't intend to sound like a paedophile bless his little. You too much of a pause. If Moi bid and win. Oh, good. Do you may? Mystique toad. Tone was a like, hey was either mobile aggress, the code the Griff excess again, you don't get told any of this. I'm sure. Episode book. Maybe I think that maybe I don't know maybe the not patronizing to kids. I don't know. Could have stood to explain a few things. Yes. I mean, some of its put pretty selfish planetary in the future. Dinosaurs a back civilization or yet? They don't explain why the dinosaurs they're just already because it's a Kona three could in the ills of because it's cool. That's why you don't need more explanation than that hit by the us and the main blow draws around in the Cadillac, hence, the name counteraction dinosaurs. With Londono Jackson Jacko. The tech ten wreck of the old blue mechanics who have a religion based around the machinery while we. So weird. It's really weird, and he really aggressively heights politicians in Arkansas, this one of the first things he says to this this random woman. Macy's fucking politicians are doomed the. Tunnel. John shed a. Hammadoun days assess. You get really weird when? These episodes going to be you also control to talk shows 'cause he's like get I saw well. He'd raised host its bow. Moon because he raised the his in rollers not from Burr, not a toll every everyone in the stands in the respect that lurk dog Wardlaw finally understands to staffing for a horse whisper, condescend Hari and always not so much that he can actually you know, doesn't go are are. Growling? Yeah. 'cause this this look a same light to where he gets time Dona. So this being it's being made to be filled with ride from transmits be horrible sheet noises needs our Braves from so he doesn't. True. So like he doesn't talk to the animal to stop it from doing that just busts to transmit enters. And he's just in the dinosaurs. Thanks, bro. From works. Uber is the mouse in Lyon thorn in its poor on the line pulled it out. I'm remembering that initial most goes through the loans poor in Thole, moose. That sounds of thing that sends out ROY is she's a show. They drive. Oh, it's. Ecological undeterred soul. Money's bad so door to those back. A wooden dies will idiots would would back sink plumbing items rail. East comeback think they also because Donoso's, you know, we might this the way so season planning. Yeah. Movies more Donen Allegra Saudi are trained in domesticated Utah. No university. I have so full seconds of sick. That was pretty cookie YouTube Ocoee, literally similar blow it is such a maze. He constantly effort of in. All the advertise would not the beginning of the second night or so which is really weird especially because I was a bit intrigue because there was what will agree and cyber to toiling happening in that. And also who round about okay off? But like, you know, less ver-, we'd we'd Belka as well. He's weedy when east cringe bio, cutting costs, no always still believe BioChem probably is. But he's locked form bay feeding over our on your head off. That's what he says. At least two episodes of Eamonn, Detroit is a catchphrase. They just weren't polling. Very well. With the kids the kids like things parents veterans. There's a wind registered will getting to skeletal yet you tried to claim the deed. Enjoy to start a skeletal champion the pope. Scantly to skin, and then Adam seemed to get really offended boy start trying to mysterious Yoon state of corporate any mirror wrestlemainia podcasts. I don't think you have not thing going on you've been through the people. I'm usually quite drunk sons. I've done. Jack ten Rex call is powered by low and poop so love. But it's the power of the PU. I'm sorry. I'm not even that. I'm just actually actually weird. Sleep deprivation just makes me worse. I'm not I'm not doing well. The ROY on your website. So I was the grain. She shoots obese Toya's yet. Well, she's she's coming to she's coming from the city of Washington, which is that. What is what Washington DC is now to go to the city in the say, which is New York City her convoy, ambushed volley? These Mad Max rejects she than awesome intro sequence. She goes off on her own looking Mearns ruined into Jack ten rack 'cause she sees sweets. We all mobile, and even though she's in a truck get freaked out by doesn't understand what Cadillac that's. That's. Lies even thought about that until I was just in this together over so much not counting because it might be to Scott like SUV's junior because. The concert of major yet clean house. I use the word trunk when he was like can you get me the spare tire at the Trump could choose. What is Trump? The Papa of boots. No cashews young. Then the guy walks in Gary, which she also complains about how she's doing all the work when she does get Tommy around any active the entire of the call with a very large trade, but fits the taller much having to carry not Toya from the boot to the Hugh on the floor rolling the easy the Actimel yet every worse. She didn't even roll Mickey defined empty Fokina. The one who's like really into college. He just keeps the tire in the boot. It's not like we wasn't in the special apartment. All cooking. Screw down or anything. Wiz. Going around. Cartoon for that. Like, that's not the weirdest. Yes. It is. Me that car. I'm surprised not more shitting considering his, you know. Yeah. Exactly book. I got get states cartoon. Don't let people. But he's heavily modified it. So again, I think it just physical you sane about aware not source. Crop top trousers is supposed to if I could feel a new Oregon up North Pole action adventure. So sweet sweet Loyd is this week's we wrote that kind of lack is fucking Batas fancy for Cadillac is the rois from the general company to riches may Turkey five thousand told me about this really to Toyoto very it was lonely, if I'm honest, we still feel we can't company it smart euphemism for it. Then they draw to his guarantee meets his Darna soul. His friends is is is best mate and fellow mechanic Mustafa. Does he get it? Some moving on 'em. Probably. I don't deny. I mean, let's be fair of an idealized this show. But in the opening of the thing is one man, stands alone. Jack, ten Rak stands alone with his very close, friends and woman who comes to help him. And stays with him for the rest of the show. So I don't know how loaning actually is not very easy than alot. But think so scorpion. King. It was. We're still gigging video spend less to be made for that film because Leary Cabela's any stink toning. Saudi do you? Let your student down inside. Really how? Companies you appreciable he puts these seniors one go some. These these not thinking about he's not dying for it. That's for sure which is gonna show me up. Yes. It's phone phone. So what we signed before? So yeah, they go through his garbage. They people win genetic material knowing the souls attack immune diseases showed him that they because thing than soy. So much worse because these one with the machinery of life because it's religion has a fancy name the Macanese. Mike, naughty. How can confirm? Promo saying arts in Val. No. He's not always looking God. The. Footwork. Oh on. Oh shit. My. Remember the school? Big Lanka, PlayStation. Sue, boss moment. You're tons. Our say that at the cinema not with you because we had met and what you yesterday was adamant. So that we do. Didn't I didn't see anyone fucking? There was no time before rich. Now was no time before stays. There is highway would never seen through which is just sure batting. You seen it because the blind swordsman the went in and closed his eyes loss. He was at the skin. We listen to it at the cinema. This episode are is this episode is brought to you by Takeshi Kitano. I think one of the problems cartoon that's actually genuinely good is a calling Rabin as much as I wanna. Really going data mations really good of ongoing. Our thing. It's a bit weird. But again, it looks very sort of popey it looks like so Jordan's from the Komi book. On especially the ladies had moments. The book for him. Feeling wild. This been like is this bath three different volumes. Because I think I think don't black holes doll coils comics at one point, I think DC or marvel did at one point. And then before that it was one of those fashioned eighteen independent publishers, so probably horrible some shit who say. Who say? Thirties more without a doubt. You know? Nobody. Nobody likes wings off of on bombs Amman. Didn't come amid society. They hit them with the I was just on the show Haina, correct? I were often the lube oil. Booking? Appointed very, although the Jack ten rack doesn't move when he sees a grenade thrown in despite owning while is extensively a position Catrine grill up good. Although again, a think in the in the COMEX it's also than day weaponry because I don't really advanced laser county and shit law. I'm one of that. This is five years in the future. But we start making stuffing. Yes. Whereas the fuller affect if you will. But I think they had to do the whole Spiderman animated series and give him no big beefy laser, although the rains a normal fucking grenades. Seems a bit. We it. Also, very limited. Ryan John grenade. He moves sidestepped one practically two steps back and then step to the round. The next. Carbon. What the next movies Benji news in time? Toit without as make sense. No lifting. Coolers. What are we anyway? So. So Jack figures out that this Darna saw is rampaging in destroy all the the locals villages is being controlled by the by going at the beginning. A removes transmitter off the back of his soul finds out that it's actually is they're all working with that will mean comb Kisner LeVine. Yeah. I think we'll safely Saif you signed. The the governor looks like Rick flair. Teats? That's it. Flat. Do not look a company that might Selena this little things embellish ninety over the only pass pasties. Yeah. Get you on some did it for pasta. Undo on the size of the state Vate vote. Anyway. Anyway. Goes to shows the evidence because he thinks he's going to get a boat in office in any hands. It to verse to at least not very clever for your face calls us like I did that day sit high you shouldn't have given you only evidence to the beef. And then the sale of cloud and goes out get you next time. Gadget he says, I'll get you next time catch it also. And in this doing this. The both said it should not just had looking out. And then he can go in next time or something like that. Instead of both of them saying basically, the same thing, but with the names reverse. Days. This bit of television. Goodness was brought to you by the ROY of Donald four hours, another four hours the running man parts of commando and St. for the movie, arguably the great is on judge Dredd street for other video game. But yet me reneging on the on that know the video game the bicycle. Plot. It's fucking great. Well, the arcade game does the actual mega CD game of this is apparently absolute dross. From what I gather is got really nice animated cut scenes. It's no games. Whereas the all counter what your about your about? The was it three four player on Kate. Remember playing in Romania we had liberal on a beach side shack really with. But I remember it vividly, and it was a really good the violence shacks on the suicide ahead. What is this? What they call. Changed all the artwork and ever since. Instead with. Was on the snacks as well. I don't think the b of was I think they might have been version of it was more than one. No, no well, ever lease video this. I'm the will be game than that was the year phila-. It was different on the since the way after now can even anyway, we're doing this again in Barrett. We should just do an episode on the bait. Video games. I wasn't just like a special video games 'cause you is into the abandon video games. We do. That's the point that you saw that video game use them less. The the good the Gooden stray too. Things you have to come along. I briefly games to into that. Here is good point on the PS four predominantly the headline Kim to go. You can't go Radi. Big long, breathe games like DAT. Rock on the as well. Get a nice to deal only choice. Again. I don't know it in the nets game. They want a Cup team. Nobody the law say. Nobody attack you with you. I don't think anybody really takes Super Mario broS out in the same way, they rarely removed it from the mega drugs that although he was getting dead annoyed when she was paying sonic on the master system. And I said, you do know it's on the mega draw beyond device. Leave at a game between your Nobel played our play on. Very good. Never get past for boss on that slavery. The gills wanted the hang motion. There is you had motions on new views, but he didn't say game gay summit. So you know, you don't but my masters could have just been the game gabo sliding like the high resolution, but that shit. Up yours. Look bit from our usual episodes links. Sure just open bait. Whether or not we recommend these thing that can go. Cake first and then go over the floor. I would watch this I'm tempted having if you has equality before into what filth. A. Yeah. I would. So it was pretty good. Can change. Purchaser mega sedate again. Again, move up signs of get sensible. They all very cheap that commonly digitally giving them away. Some of the mega CD gangs. Did we have a four hundred Zik spectrum is under our bent works stole from on. But if it doesn't you could come with us to muster their go on there. I think probably they're gonna also is the torch the ocean anything other than a mega drive. A nays. I'm interested in. Goal. They did have Zule on me. Thinking what been the Commodore fifty quid with a mega DRAM felt like hundred four acquitted ice. Megan. Anyway, that was cut it lacks in dole initials. Point. Delivered on if your mind is fall, while them would you recommend it to people for the size of funny, but who you'd recommend device on the call to a few of the kind of person who has enough tends to require ten rack then. Recommended if you're in home Scotsman neukolln, insane, your accents and sills from amber definitely recommend this to you. If you are a Spanish immigrant, you know, they can only be one. This is a quick inning would recommend this. If you'll star in in a terrible, Roger Kuhlman knockoff addressee Parco corner. So. I actually I wouldn't because he probably flashbacks. You don't wanna if you work for the the company mortar MS recommend this trout years. Terrible. What knows too. So. If he were on the program Donoso's audio three listeners, we go. Just fucking coffee Necker. Reckon that you never got shantytown down. Swats listen back, and he did nobody could out Larry forgotten his name, Nick Heine Delina Cy creepy hynick. Joining. Whoa. That's that's the last. I'm not I'm not giving a mission. You fall. If knows to do a tweet citizens. Out regular. She tweeted Barack Obama. Asked. Isis Paula Donald. Let's go by the twilla going for more Kumba. Dirac? Which combine probably? Sampled faster. Be working Cousy Pero paying now.

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