15 Episode results for "Richard Avedon"

Little Happier: Reading Isaac Mizrahi Taught Me About Myself

Happier with Gretchen Rubin

04:34 min | 1 year ago

Little Happier: Reading Isaac Mizrahi Taught Me About Myself

"Grudge. I love watching my son Jack with our cat blackjack, they're so sweet together. Oh, it is just very touching to watch Jag pet blackjack, and, yes, I realize we have Jack and WeChat. Yes, but do you know what? I don't love. And that is cleaning up Blackjacks litterbox, which is why Armand hammer created new cloud control litter. There's no cloud of nasties. When you scoop it is one hundred percent dust free free of heavy perfumes, and helps reduce airborne dander from scooping. So what happens in the litterbox stays in the litterbox, new cloud, control cat, litter by Armand hammer. More power to I'm Gretchen Rubin. And this is a little happier. I love to read, and there's one aspect of reading I, particularly love it's when a writer describes an emotion or thought that I've had without quite realizing it. And so makes my own experience more clear to me a writer gives me a new word or phrase to describe something so that I can describe the world or human nature more accurately or a writer describes an experience that I've had. But assumed that no one else in the world had felt the same way in this way, reading someone else's reflections makes my own life richer. For instance, I experienced this heightened clarity recently. When I was reading I m the brilliant, memoir, by Isaac Mizrahi. Now, if you don't know much about Isaac Mizrahi there's a lot to learn. He's an American fashion designer TV presenter, and chief designer of the Isaac Mizrahi brand for excel Brandt's. He's based in New York City, and he's best known for his upon fashion lines. He serves as a judge for project runway all stars, you may have seen his nineteen ninety-five documentary unzipped about the creation of one of his shows, I was struck by many of the observations and incidents in the memoir, but one stood out in particular, because he describes something that I feel often, and very strongly when I'm confronted by some work of art, whether visual or written that I truly love. I've tried before to describe my version of this feeling to my daughters Elisa and Eleanor, but I didn't put it into words as well as he did. Here's what MS raw. He writes about seeing the movie funny girl in his childhood. He writes, it's such a cliche. A kid sitting in a Dirk theater, the world opening up a kind of shifting. And yeah, that's truly the way it happened that moment marked another first for me. This flood of inspiration was accompanied by a feeling of dread. And a hint of resigned exhaustion, this particular mix of emotions has become a regular event in my life, whenever I feel most inspired. I'm simultaneously struck by a feeling of sadness and exhaustion at seeing the distance left to go the labor ahead to achieve anything near to capturing perfection on that level and later, he describes having the same feeling again as an adult and this was in the spring of nineteen seventy eight when he was at the Metropolitan Museum to visit the exhibit RA. Richard Avedon photographs nineteen forty six to nineteen Seventy-six Mizrahi rights inspiration, presented its usual double edged sword, the Avidan exhibit filled me, with inspiration ideas, and an impulse to get to work followed again, by the familiar tinge of spiritual, nausea, I floated among the beauty in that gallery. But I also sent that this level of greatness could never be equaled contemplating the arduous road ahead trying to get anywhere near that level of perfection. I felt defeat reading him described his experience helped me or too late my own experience, which is a bit different. I have a feeling of exhaustion to and being overwhelmed. But also a feeling of frustration or obstruction. A feeling that things can't flow a kind of pent up pressure for what I see to be turned into something else to be put to work by me. It's not enough to read it or see it. I have to make something else out of it transform it or copy, it myself and the problem. Is that as Mizrahi points out, whatever I create or copy would be so inferior to whatever I'm responding to. It's discouraging and frustrating just as learning about ourselves can help us understand other people, better learning about other people can help us understand ourselves better. I'll post a link to I m the Isaac Mizrahi memoir in the show notes. I'm Gretchen Rubin. And I hope this makes your week a little happier.

Isaac Mizrahi Gretchen Rubin Richard Avedon Armand hammer Jack writer Brandt New York City Metropolitan Museum Dirk theater chief designer Elisa Eleanor one hundred percent
#22: The Business Side of BNBs

A Beautiful Mess Podcast

38:48 min | 1 year ago

#22: The Business Side of BNBs

"You're listening to the beautiful mess podcast today. We're diving into one of our most requested topics of all time the business side of BNB's and we're actually going to expand on this topic a little and talk about investing in real estate generally. We're GONNA share a formula that we try to follow and steps. We took before. Listing are for short term rentals. So let's get into it before we begin. I wanted to start out by mentioning that in our show notes which you can find out a beautiful mess. Dot Com slash podcast. We will link to all of the. Bnb's that we currently have listed and we will also link to a couple of blog posts that we've written in the past about BNB's generally. Yeah we recently actually added to our homepage to just a beautiful mess dot com. There is a menu at the top and one of them says properties. And if you click on that Senate shows all of our BNB's and it also links to if we've liked toward the bedrooms toward the bathroom so you can like click on those and see before we talk about investing in real estate. I thought it would be helpful to just quickly go through a few things that I think you should have going in your life before you even consider investing in real estate and I think a lot of these are going to be no brainers for most people listening but also maybe not. I don't know I don't mean that in a offensive way. I just know this right. Had A few friends ask me before because they know I have a short term rental and I also own a long term rental and so I just you know these are some things that I've told friends and so I just thought I would share them here to absolutely so. This is like the groundwork that you recommend having laid before you buy any kind of second home. Yes definitely. I'll go through kind of quickly because this could be like a whole episode. This also could be like someone's whole brand his personal finance stuff so and I'm no expert but I'm just GonNa list for things that I think you should do. So number one be mostly out of debt. Some debt is okay debt for our personal home and some school debt. Especially if you have a really great rate or if you have like if you're a physician your doctor you probably are going to be paying off your school loans for a very long time. So that kind of that's fine but I mean more if you have major credit card debt or debt from school where you don't use your degree anymore. Those are the kinds of things you might. WanNa look into paying down before you ever start investing number to have a savings account which is what I would also call. This is just a safety net. So I recommend having anywhere from three to six months worth of your living expenses so this could also be three to six months worth of your salary and the idea is if you got laid off then you have this money to help you kind of make it through until you get a new job or if you're a business owner like I am then you kind of have a little bit of a safety net so if your business can't pay you for a while or if you need to change businesses you have something there you know and if possible. I would recommend even more than three to six months but I think three to six months is a good like good. Starting place he. Oh the -mergency fund right. Yeah Oh yeah gotTa have that number three. Have all your basic needs met and the big one that I just wanted to mention here is healthcare and this is a little bit of a business owner problem which I'm a business owner. It's also a little bit of A. It's different from country to country so this is a little bit of an American thing. I suppose but make sure that you have enough money and you have healthcare. Maybe you get it through an employer so this doesn't apply to you. But what if you get laid off? How's that going to work just making sure that you have that covered off because you never know if something's going to happen so that and then the fourth thing is be saving for retirement and you can do this through a 401k or an IRA traditional or Roth IRA? There's multiple options if you don't know about those. Their whole books articles blogs podcasts dedicated. Just to that. I also highly recommend working with a financial advisor. Both Elsie and I have financial advisers at work with them and their great resources. For Lots of information that you might not have access to if you didn't grow up thinking about financial stuff so highly recommend but be saving for retirement Actively before you think about investing in stocks or real estate or anything else yeah because real estate is a great investment. But it's not the most risk free thing right people do lose money on it so hopefully that will never happen but it does happen is happened to me before. Yeah it does happen. So it's it's a you know it's icing on the cake. It's not just the e need to have the cake. I though otherwise icing. And that's too much anyway. You get it. That's disgusting it's disgusting. Did you WanNa talk a little bit about rebates book? We've talked about in the past away. You guys know I love raw meat. Seti and his book is called. I will teach you to be rich and his website Graham. He's he's the greatest he's my hero and what I love about. Roommates book will teach to be rich. Is If you have any kind of negative feelings or associations with money which I did in the past have a lot of that. I had fear guilt anxiety stress all of these things surrounding money and his book really helped me to rework those attitudes and to have generally more healthy realistic and I think smarter perspective about money So yeah highly recommended. He is actually not that big on like real estate investing. He's always saying like it might not be good And he talks a lot about who doesn't even own his apartment in New York and that's great for him so yeah it's not about real estate investing it's just general positive attitudes and you know better practices for money. Yeah I love I read that book to After. Elsie recommended it to be in loved it. I also just think like if you are coming from a place where you don't know a lot about personal finances baby you have like. Elsie set some fear or some hang ups around it. I just think that's so much more important than thinking about investing in real estate. I just feel like so people see us with our short term rentals. Elsie and I think it just looks really cool and they just get excited about it. And I'm like that's awesome and I hope we can be a model for women. Investing in women taking control the finances. It just anyone not even just women but anyone but I also think there are some other steps to take I and it's really important not to skip that stuff. So Yeah Yeah I. I totally agree with that. The short term rentals. That we do are kind of like the coolest part of our financial situation where people look at it and they're like. Oh that's neat but it's not the most important part it's really not so yeah exactly All right so the next thing is we have a little bit of a formula that we try to stick to whenever we're investing in real estate I like to call it the one percent rule but I wanted to have my husband tray onto explain it because I think he explains it really well so I did a little interview with him one evening just the two of us so here it is. Can you explain the one percent rule in how we use it when we're evaluating if we're going to purchase a rental property shirt but yeah? I Atop WANNA give credit to our accountant because who explained it to us at first whenever he was recommending that we start looking at property investment general Jason Jordan. He is wonderful Jason. We love you. The premises pretty simple. The one percent is in reference to your insulin. Come so you want your rental income. Your monthly rental income to equal one percent of the purchase value of your are the purchase price of your house so for example easy numbers. If you have a one hundred thousand dollar house your goal then would be to rent that for around a thousand dollars a month and the reason you go for that one it just gives you a simple equation where you can really quickly take a look at a house in just price out and think like. Oh could I get that or would that be worth it and if you are able to hit that you know with the very I mean there's other variables like what your property manager is Your Insurance Company in your taxes and all that kind of stuff but generally speaking if you're able to hit that one percent mark you're able to flow fifteen percent cash on cash and what that means is you're able to get fifteen percent annual return off whatever your down payment was so that's that's what the cash on cash means so for example again to stick with that hundred thousand dollar house example you would likely for a business loan you go twenty percent down on that which would mean you have? Twenty Thousand Dollar House are not two hundred twenty thousand dollar down payment and then you'd be flowing fifteen percent off that twenty thousand dollars so that would work out to about three thousand dollars. A year is what you'd be returning and whenever I say cash on cash that's to say that you were actually flowing that money so that's going right into your pockets. You've already paid your mortgages for the year. You've already paid your insurance. You've already paid your taxes. You pay your property manager and it accounts for about ten percent of your income worth of maintenance so covers all of that and then you're sending three thousand dollars directly into your pocket so because like a lot of times a year but people saying you know you know I charged enough to pay for my mortgage or whatever so this is actually charging above. And beyond your or you're making above and beyond what your mortgages and you're actually putting quite a bit or you're putting a decent amount of money in your pocket be passive income exactly and it's you know and it's something to give you a frame of reference you know a good year in the stock market is is ten percent return on your money so this would actually be doing better or good. You know ten to twenty percent so this will be like a good year in the Stock Market. And you'd build but you're you'd be able to do that year after year regardless of you know outside of really really extreme fluctuations in the market right but you might. WanNa do this instead of the stock market. Because you're building equity and because you have an asset to sell later on. Yeah well that's the thing about equity or sounds kind of safer. I mean it's not. No investing is one hundred percent safe. But you know that one seems more. Yeah it's it's definitely more liquid you're able to like you can pull your money out at any point in the stock market whereas in house you have to sell. The House is continuing on a buyer. All of that the benefit of it is you have that cash flow that is you know competitive with a stock market investment on one side fifteen percent but then functionally on the other side. You're then doubling your money in equity so you're kind of double dipping a little bit so you're like you know again. These are rough numbers but in the same way that you are flowing that three grand you're also building up that three grand equity on the other side is you're paying off your mortgage so you're kind of you're growing in in two directions but again one liquid and one not equity. Why would people care about equity? What's that useful for? Not Cash money. You know well. There's a handful of things you can do that quickly. Obviously obviously you could sell the house at any point and get all that money right back. Presuming the irritable. The main task bursary shakedown. Exactly so then that so then that money would come back the like your equity would come back on a sale. That's the most straightforward thing that you can do with it and then of course you know if you sit on that tiller retirement and that's a nice little nest egg that you would have till then Can make back the whole one hundred dollars and more or the other thing like if you did have something if you did have some idea or you had something else or the property or something else you wanted to buy you could then Get alone against your equity so you could pull that cash out to go. Do something else if you wanted to. As long as you kept I think around that you know ten to twenty percent down on that property you could then pull the excess equity out to go to go start a new project or go get a new property or whatever so. That's the formula we try to stick to in buying a property in short term can open up the options a little more than long term. But it's a little more risky since monthly income will vary other than the simple formula. Let's talk through other steps? People need to take in order to buy or set up a short term rental. Let's talk a little bit about loss. Because was knowing the laws in your area and whether or not property qualifies to even become a short term rental is super super important and this is a mistake that I made the first time we bought property so I'll share a little bit about that. It's embarrassing but I'll share it anyway. So when we bought our first investment property in Nashville the laws were rumored to be about to change. And a lot of people told me. Oh it's fine. Don't worry about it. No it's not GonNa Change that much and unfortunately it did change a lot and it changed right as we bought our property and what we ended up doing one of the day. You closed right. It was like the week week after something. It was crazy it was. Yeah and then we didn't. We weren't very speedy about applying for a permit and long story. Short ended up with a permit that was not really legal because we had an owner occupied permit and people were like. It's fine it's fine. It's not that regulated but I don't know in my heart I knew that like this is not good and within six months or permit was taken away and we had to sell our property and it wasn't a quick cell it wasn't we basically like lost a lot out of it just by not knowing the laws upfront and not being super safe in the beginning so we ended up doing with selling the property and reinvesting in another property. Which is the one now that own half of a duplex each so it's one duplex each own one side of it that's our BNB in Nashville now and it is completely illegal permit because it is zoned commercially and so now we know that our permits not going to be taken away which is which is cool. But it's very very hard to find those properties so in Nashville. We probably won't be doing a lot more short term rentals. Just because there's very few properties now that qualify to become one it's very regulated in a lot of big cities. Are that way. Yeah and if you don't know I just start googling but also it's usually the zoning department of your city or your county if your city is very small at might be your county And you can call. You can always like just call and ask questions. It's very similar to like doing your taxes. Which I don't like I also have an accountant but you also oftentimes have to call the IRS oriented to call your local. You Know Secretary of State or office or whatever. Just ask questions so do that? If you're considering doing a short term rental because you know you might not know the laws the laws may be changing soon and your city government or county government will be able to give you those answers but yeah our Spring Philip. Bnb We closed on that and a month later the laws there change to and it. It was fine. We had to go through permitting and it wasn't we we have the permit and everything's on the up and up. That's where legal but I was so stressed when I heard they changed until I went into the city to find out what they were to ask more questions about what I needed to do so I was like. Oh my gosh. We just bought this House. And now we're going to have to sell it or we're GONNA have to make it into a long term rental. Which the amount of money. We are investing to renovate. It didn't make sense for that so it was just this stressful process. So I that's probably my biggest like if you're thinking about short term rental this is the number one thing to like. This is the number one thing you need to know the laws and just to be totally clear. This probably won't apply to you if you're thinking of renting your own home like while you're on vacation or on the weekends or something like that the most Homes where you live in the home will qualify in most cities. But what we're talking about right now is buying another home for the purpose of making it into a short term rental right. Yeah I would still check though on even on that. There are a lot of cities that have like two to three different types of short term rental permits. Str permits yet and so and sometimes they have requirements around how much you need to occupy the home. And let's say you have a job where you're gone. You know three to six months out of the year you may fall into this range of two different permit so you know I still would definitely look into it just everyone's situation's different right and are cities. Where short term rentals are completely banned? So yeah it's the most important thing is really knowing the laws and making sure that the property you're considering will qualify for a permit before you put down any money or make an offer anything like that right exactly okay. So researching the permits and laws. That was the first thing you need to do. Second thing is researching properties prices How often short term rentals are renting out in your area And also like real estate agents. If you're going to be using one so similar things that you would be researching if you're buying the home to live in. But also a little additional research of how often are short term rentals renting out in your area and you can do that by simply going on. Airbnb or home away. Vr B. O. And like checking out other properties in this area in the city in the neighborhood looking at and check for the entire year not just one season. Yeah Mary weekend. Prices because usually fluctuates quite a bit. Right okay so research properties prices all of that Next thing you're probably going to need twenty percent down so usually when you buy a personal home you pay ten percent down as your down payment and when you buy an investment property it's usually twenty percent or more at times Train I had to pay thirty percent of their property price in order to get financing. So it just depends so you wanna be saving your money and knowing that you still have that savings account. You still have a safety net. You're not going to be spending your entire safety net on this real estate property. Because that's I don't think the best way to go about it. I don't even think they'll let you do that. Because usually they want you to show that you have like six months of expenses and you know yeah Yeah stuff tricky to qualify for a second home loan and you do have to save more for sure right and as you can tell by the advice we're giving here. We finance all our properties get loans from banks or other lending organizations although it's always been banks for us. Yeah someone yesterday if. Y'All go ahead if we had bought a house in cash yet and I'm like no. I wish I really really WanNa do that some day. And that is definitely the dream but yeah it's really cool like yeah. I just think it's really cool but In the in Nashville. I don't know if it's like that possible. Yeah Yeah and that's a great goal if it went also listening to your goals do it. I don't think that's the best way to spend that amount of cash. I think you'd be better off financing but I also think it's really cool to be debt free on a property and if so if that's the position you're in that's true financial advisers will always tell you that you don't really need to pay down your mortgage you need to invest that money instead but there is something cool about having a home paid off so. I don't know I'm kind of on the fence with that. Yeah I also think to. This is one thing I feel like you get a better sense of as you grow your confidence with personal finance stuff. Is that a lot of times. There really isn't a black and white right wrong answer. It's more about. What amount of risk are you? Okay with and what are your goals like you know Remain talks about this. Like what is your rich life because the rich life isn't just about money. It's about your time about the stress that you're going to go through you know if you're have stress in another area that you're wanting like you have young children. Maybe you don't WanNa be thinking about this stuff all the time you know so. I think like all of that is important to think that it's not just about the money so the APP anyway all right so saving money work with the lender talk with them about getting pre approved or figuring out your financial situation there next. Let's move on to some of the fun stuff. I thought you guys not the whole episode was going to be fun stuff like couches and furnishings. But it was not. It was money stuff we checked. You know. I'm just kidding but now we are going to give it to the fun part. Ernest shaking in other honestly. Yeah I always I think that. Bnb's look so much more fun than they really are because a lot of it is just like saving for a year and then on it. Yeah buying your furniture really really really fast. Y- so yeah. This is the exciting part of that him. Ra so first of all. The first thing that I wanted to say is that most of us were moving from house to house right like I've moved a lot of times in my life. And you know you up your stuff you take it with you. Maybe a few things don't work and you buy some new things but furnishing a house from zero is so different you will be shocked at how much stuff you have to buy like it. Isn't it shocking? Because then you don't have a broom. You don't have any trash cans. You have to buy every little thing you have to buy. You know your coffeemaker your knives every single little thing. You can think of so. Actually this pertains to that. I've been putting up by room tours for by Harry Potter. Bnb which which you can find from our properties tab on our blog a beautiful mess anyway. I've gotten a few comments which is totally fine. Totally Fair criticism. I'm not this is you. Don't need to defend me. It's totally cool. That people are saying this. I think I kind of agree with them. They're kind of pointing out like these rooms are so much more bear and not as decorated as some of your other room tours. And I'm like yeah you're right but also I'd love to see you furnish five bedroom house two thousand dollar budget and it'd be as decorated as your personal. How shocking how? Fast it goes. It's like well I was either Bible or wall hangings or by knives and I went with the knives so yeah I will back you up on this. I think people are a little bit lake too critical about that and like I get it like you want it to be like a treat for the eyes but when I get further down my advice you'll see what I'm going to say about that but you can't make that no it's good You can't get to that level of decorating in every single space of BNB. And I would argue that. People don't want that people actually when you go into a BNB. You don't want like knickknacks on every single surface the way you do in your own home like i. I really think that you`re. Bnb feels great in person and mine are definitely a little bit more bear than my personal home. Oh yeah and it's a totally fair. I really am not upset. The people are saying that it's totally fair. Fair criticism. No big deal. Yeah okay so the first step. This is obvious. Set a budget and I would say I mean. Obviously you need to set a budget you can with cash you have. There's no taking alone or putting on credit cards to buy furniture and stuff. No no no. We are going to spend cash and it's GonNa be a little bit more than you want it to be so I would say set the highest budget you can I always tried to do it. Under ten thousand dollars. And maybe some of Your Lake Barking in your throats right now and you're like ten thousand. Ten thousand dollars is not a Lotta money when you're furnishing an entire house from nothing. I think people really are being in their throats because they're like that's cheap or because they're like that's really too expensive like it's both in a way you know which is kind of funny because I feel like ten thousand dollars. Furnish your whole house is an insanely low budget. Okay but also a lot of money. It's a lot of you. There's different paths. You can go down if you're doing a guest house that's behind your personal home and you have six months to do it. Maybe you can do it for three thousand dollars because you buy everything from facebook marketplace in the thrift store and paint it yourself and all of that. But if you're buying everything from places like wayfair and Amazon you know places like shipping it. Yeah shipping it all to the house. You're definitely going to need at least ten thousand dollars to do a house with just bare minimum beds. Nightstand lamps couch coffee table Decent dining table. Yeah Decent Al. Nice things like it and yeah. There are certain things that you obviously shouldn't or can't buy use light towels right. Set the best budget you can and if you can do double that honestly like you'll have more fun shopping for furniture and it will probably turn a little more your style more special but You know it also depends on how many bedrooms you have. That's definitely a big factor if you're doing one or two bedroom house it's not gonna add up as fast like the ones we've been doing in. Florida. They're five bedrooms. That's up pretty fast. The next step is planned. The big pieces. I so the stuff that I would spend the most money on our a Nice Sofa. Nice mattresses and Nice dining room table. Those are things that you want to last. You don't want the cheapest possible thing You want something that's going to wear well and you know be good over time but at the same time don't spend too much because I will say irony had to replace my Sofa in our AIRBNB in Nashville and we've only had that open since last spring and I already had happen The one of the legs off of it and it and they fixed it and then it broke off again and so they were finally like sorry but you have to send a New Sofa. So yeah. Don't spend like premium like dollars like what you would unlike in your own home on Dream Sofa but also don't cheap out to the point where it's going to be uncomfortable and you know anyway if you have a Nike. Ah That's probably your best bet. If you have Nike in driving distance because I feel like the quality there is good enough and the prices are best case scenario. The next step is to add details and I think that NBA is. You can do a lot with paint. You can do a lot with removable wallpaper. You can make your own Art Yuqin frame posters and things like that like it doesn't have to be super expensive to decorate a room and make it really cute and then I have a few tips for ways to sort of save money or stay within your budget The first one is facebook marketplace and reusing things. If you have a chance to do this I always take at least a few things from my personal home when I'm setting up a BNB just things that like you know. I didn't need any more or I was planning to donate or sell and I will give them a new home. I love swapping things around anytime I have a chance. Then this is my big big piece of advice to stay on your budget but still achieve this big. Look because you are going to need to be thinking about your photos from the beginning like your listing on AIRBNB or wherever. You're going to list it. You want the photos to stand out and like for example. Our House in Florida. There are a lot of houses in the subdivision where the homes are that are up on Airbnb and kind of all the listings. Look the same so a big opportunity for us was to give our photos an edge and I really feel like that's GonNa make a huge difference just having like planning what your cover photo is GonNa be. I think is a part of decorating so when I like to do is choose. Three photo moments for the house is can be indoor outdoor. It can be a mural it can be a wallpaper wall I would definitely do at least one of them. Be The dining room or the kitchen and at least one of them be a bedroom and then probably the living room. So choose your moments in our Florida. House EM- actually might be the pool area though And spend more money on those moments to make them really good. Then you're gonNA show your potential customer that it's a cute photogenic place to stay because even people who aren't influencers even just you know your regular family going on a Disney vacation. You still. What would rather have acute house than a Boring House rate? Definitely so yeah. That can never hurt. so yeah. I think planning those moments from the beginning is the best thing because then you can choose okay. I'm GONNA spend a little bit more on these three rooms to make them extra extra Q. And if you have a couple of bedrooms or a couple of bathrooms that are a little bit boring. That's okay honestly like you don't even have to have a picture of every single angle on your airbnb listing like we don't even always put every single bathroom you don't have to. You just have to put exciting stuff. Yeah so we're going to do a few like questions we've had listeners. Ask US before but right before that. I wanted to mention one last thing. Which is property managers so often. Do you use property managers. And the answer is an emphatic. Yes honestly I wouldn't even for myself with our lifestyle. We have fulltime jobs. Ray Somewhat argue more than a full-time job like so If you have a full-time job that you love you don't have to manage your property on top of that there are people that do it professionally. Who are really good at it. And in our experience it's been amazing working with managers. Yes and typically property managers will take anywhere from ten to twenty percent. I have heard of some. That will take more than that. I've never worked with one. That took more than that. So that sounds a little crazy to me but it may happen in certain areas. That are like very Very poppin for tourism. I don't know but typically it's ten to twenty percent and you can get a property manager for long term or short term rentals. It seriously worth every penny. I wrote down like three questions that I've seen from listeners. But if you they're kind of general like I've seen them multiple times where to differently so it's not like from specific listener. But if you have more elsie we can add to the list bugging Irish one guy. Do Okay Cool. Do you think most of the guests booking your spaces are blog readers? Okay so I wrote down fifty percent or less and our way less. Yeah I like yeah fifty percent at the most. I hardly ever get tagged or get a message from a blog reader. This one is kind of similar but also I think getting it something else so it is. Do you think you'd ever do a short term rental if you weren't bloggers okay. Basically I think they're the question I don't know but from the time I've seen this. I think people are asking. Is this just your way to get more spaces to decorate an actually doesn't really make money? I it's kind of what they're asking not in a roadway necessar- maybe but not really just more like. Does this really make sense or you just needing more rooms decorate for your block so freight right Okay so for me. Personally I think I still would but it is nice to have extra rooms to log about but like if you look at our blog you'll notice that in my personal home there's probably like four to six post for every room and might be. Mb's there's usually only one. So I don't think you get as much content out of it but it is fun. I mean I do like that aspect of it and it's definitely a nice bonus that occasionally we get to work with a sponsor for our BNB or whatever. Yeah that's what I would say is like it's a big bonus that we get to show the content and we sometimes I want. I think readers like it whether it sponsored or not but we will win. We do get a sponsor which isn't all the time but when we do. I think that's a big bonus for us and it's a great collaboration. That's really fun but yeah I like We mentioned earlier in the episode as trae explained the one percent rule for trade I. There's really no way we could have bought our duplex in Nashville or our house in Florida. Making it a long term rental it we have to do is short term rental in order to get close to that one percent rule. So that's for us why we do it. It's not so it's great that we get to blog the content and I love it. It's so fun but I it's more about the one percent role than sign other words. Nowy wouldn't buy a whole house just to do six hundred votes. Yeah probably not probably not. Yeah that's a really makes it's a good. It's a little side business like it really is a small side business but I think that in the long term of our lives. It'll be a little more significant. It's not a quick way to make money. Let's put it that way. No not really Okay and then. The last one is I've seen people asked. Do you think a long-term or short-term property is a better investment like which one makes more money and I kind of think from the one percent role you could see? I think it really depends and the reason why I think. Both those strategies work long term or short term. I think short term is a little bit more risky. It involves MORE UPFRONT. Cost but it can make more money in the long run. Yeah Def definitely. They can both be good. It really religious depends on your area. Yep Okay so we're going to do. What are you looking at and Emma? What are you looking at? I started a new book. I'm always starting books I didn't finish my last one. I just didn't get into it. I liked it at first and I want to watch. The movie. Didn't get into it anyway. What was it what was it? It was call me by your name. Oh you didn't like the book. I never saw the book or the movie so saw the book. Just move on from well you do look at it with Your Eyes. Saw The book. Yeah I don't know I mean I don't WanNa dicit or anything because I know some people have loved it so I don't want to say it's like that or anything. I don't think that I just didn't get into it. I don't know maybe I'm not high class enough but I I do like the general idea behind it and I'm definitely GonNa Watch the movie very excited to trae. Wants to watch it to some kind of waiting for him to watch it to anyway. I moved on the book. I'm reading now is called the husband's secret which is by Liane Moriarty. Good I looked. I looked it up okay. So here's the thing about this author. I love this author. She wrote big little lies if you saw that series or book but she has lots of books. I've read some for other books. I love her. I believe she's Australian so I was trying to look up how to pronounce her name properly. A lot of interviews. The people interviewing her were Australian and I was like. Is this how you say it? You know sometimes like British accents people sit. They literally pronounce it differently than Rier could would so I was like Oh. There's no way no for sure honestly so. I'm sorry if I butchered her name. She's an amazing author though. I love her books so I wanted to read another one and this one. I just picked up randomly at a thrift store. I was like oh one of her books here. Rad so reading it cool. That's what I'm looking at Okay so we're moving this week and I have been very stressed Like ten out of ten. It's not a good. It's not a pleasant time for me so what I'm trying to do is just like anything self care any kind of tree. Anything that I can do to feel like a little bit better. So what so? The only thing I've been reading quote unquote reading is like my inspiration books. So I'm going to link all of these in the show notes. A beautiful mess dot com back slash podcast. So I have this book. This Richard Avedon book. I've also just been feeling this. Draw towards photography again so at anyway. This is Richard is a famous photographer through the nineteen hundreds and he I think he I think he passed kind of recently anyway. He has beautiful iconic black and white photography. You will definitely recognize it if you saw. I really want one for my home. Like a is it like in print landscapes or no. It's portrait people mostly K Yeah like think. Like vogue from the nineteen sixties like cocaine And then I have this case bad book that I loved Luca and I have the Big Tim. Walker book from the olden days and some art books that I got Used Aba Georgia. O'keefe won a Picasso went so I've just been feeling really like I need to just fill my brain up with beautiful things and not think about anything. Siri it's also the week before it when we're recording this. It's the week before Super Tuesday and the corona virus bit ally and we're moving you know it's just been a lot. Thanks so much for tuning in this league. If you have any questions about short term rentals we are always happy to answer. You can reach us at podcast at Beautiful Mass Dot Com and please remember to click subscribe on our podcast so they get updates every week.

BNB Nashville property manager Airbnb Elsie Florida accountant business owner advisor Senate Bnb Jason Jordan Liane Moriarty facebook Richard Avedon
#106 A hatful of ideas

Photography Daily

20:52 min | 5 months ago

#106 A hatful of ideas

"Photography Daly City portrayed photographer bill. Wortman is back for the final time today in his three-party, and we talk invention how for some photographers like bill it's the unknown. It's the learning that keeps you creatively fresh for me. It's about doing something I. Don't know how to do. In this case I. Don't know how to direct movies I don't know how to write. So as a matter of sitting down and just writing dialogue and trying to do something, I don't know how to do this. Then we do where we make pitches is not something he sees ending anytime soon there's a lot. Of, people who say, Oh, I can't wait till I can become sixty five or seventy active retired. It's like I don't want to retire I like doing what I do. I've never been on a portrait job that I didn't enjoy Lizzo is the competition to remind you that it's important to try maintain your edge to practice and to enjoy practicing. But there are people who I know who are some friends of mine who all look at their the Oh God why did she take that picture? That's amazing. We talk about bill's newfound love with conceptual were a lot of surrealism they. A lot of them end up being sort of based on dreams or different things like that. That that some people have this become his new injection of creative energy and I was like, Oh, you'll be amazing if we had you climbing that water tank. We were just gonNA use the roof as is. Tank made me think about somebody climbing up towards the sky and that made me think it'd be really fun if she was reaching toward something and. It ends up being a step by step process woman is on today's show. Before we start my sincere thanks to 'EM PB supporting the show now and helping us get word out about it. Trading thousands of cameras and lenses every week across Europe and the US MPP they checked they great. They photograph every single item and add a six warranty in as well. So you can be sure of what's in the box give their site that blogger visit today's MP dot com view looking for Gero. Perhaps, you're wanting to sell some gear and there's a piece on that. Today called meritless for Mobility Link to today's show notes on our website to due to a health issues. Photo journalist, Joe Plumbridge is saying goodbye to her heavy weights diesel kit. So MP be asked her to trout three murless solutions. The cannon else are then there was the Fuji film s t three and the Sony a seven three. We can read the article and understand. Why Joe chose what camera she did from that esteemed line. So today Bill Waldman is my guest and it's been a real thrill to serialized three chats with him in the city that has many respected commercial portrait photographers earned his dues and success since hitting the headlines with three, six, five, the went viral three years before instagram showed up to champion that kind of project. His the Kinda photographer who likes to show he's subjects inside out. He's a thinker researcher his thorough even down to the computers he uses in fact when I was reading more about him, there was the suggestion it wasn't enough just to buy a Mac. He didn't want anything of the shelf he could probably or possibly construct himself the sign of an accomplished auto die DAX. is taken this learning into the studio as he thinks if he's portrayed subjects as an opportunity to learn to, he's the proverbial learning sponge, and if you had a visit bills studio will hot him on location. Johnson be part of his question thirst for knowledge is he prompts you fascinated by the workings of your life you'll vocation and what makes you take personally It's an approach that works well for bill many photographers including the lack small recently photographic portrayed history of Plateau ranking but he mentioned to photography that I want to reference who have. Different approach. Yousef Karsh, who famously removed a cigar from Winston Churchill's mouth to make an iconic picture. Perhaps the iconic picture of Britain's wartime prime minister. It's a familiar reference within portray photography, of course, and then there's his reference referenced. Richard Avedon to the famous American fashion portray photographer working in the late fifties with the former king of England the monarch who abdicated to marry Wallis Simpson, an American socialite in. The session with the newly titled. Duke and Duchess of Windsor. Avenue wanted to tell a story that he felt hadn't been told with a portrait. There wasn't the state typical well practiced media. Smile. The couple were so well versed in doing like Karl she wanted to tell a story with his portray that extended further than framed pleasantries he wanted to show their social pressures, a deeper percents of conflicted. We knew the couple of dogs and concocted a complete story about how a taxi journey out to meet the Duke and Duchess his driver had managed to miss a dog that ran out in front of the car. He'd run it over in the street killing it immediately. The couple paused looked decidedly uncomfortable visibly disturbed by his lie but Avidan had calculated the response, the Duke and Duchess flinched Avidan clicked causing sensation as many people across the globe the capture. Avidan is convinced it showed the side to the couple that was important to show. There are many ways to capture the nature, the essence of a person, and of course, linked to build site today, and you can look into the eyes of his subjects and read what story Waldman has brought you with each character. Bilas, we've identified in our series of chats is very much into theater portraits of actors in wonderfully active shutters dragged across the images of dance movement. There are strong part of the overall body of work within his website portfolio and he's been working on a project that identifies with his love of business portrait's even in these times. The big thing in New York right now is that that all these things are shut down including Broadway. So I know some people who are Broadway performers and both actors on stage singers and also. Musicians and tech people and all the rest of it and I thought it'd be really interesting to take some portraits of these people at their theaters while the theaters are closed outside the theaters you know So I've done five or six of them now going to times square and what's really interesting in the last month that I've been doing them there are way more people I when did one yesterday? There's way more people in times. Square. Than there were when I started there was no one there a month ago, and now there's people they're not times square in the summertime normally but. People You'll show films by the way beautifully, well written Rut right up the top enough about the one titled Interview which is Defense. When he comes to a link to it has a super twig I'm going to spoil I won't be able to go. On a monochrome which he did a few years ago actually that that's A super dare is as well. It's an important time isn't it to be able to embrace multiple skills I think moving moving ahead? Now's of photographer. Yes for me it's it's kind of goes back to the autodidact thing where I like to learn things that I don't know how to do and I like to figure that out myself. So for me, it's about doing something. I don't know how to do in this case, I. Don't know how to direct movies. I don't know how to write. So as a matter of sitting down and just writing dialogue and trying to do something I, don't know how to do and the funny thing about it is that I've actually in some ways I love shooting stills but right now I'm reading another short film. And a more excited about that than I am about the stills that I'm taking. I'm not saying that I know everything how to do is stills, but I know how to take pills I like to take. where I don't know how to make movies the way I like to make them because I've only made a handful of them so Let me explore that a little bit and there's a there's a built-in collaborative process with. especially, narrative filmmaking where it's like you have to trust the actors you know you have to trust whoever you have running your camera. You have to trust that I have to work with other people and I have to make things with other people entrusted. They're going to be good at their job and I'm going to be good at mine. There's one called partners that's also on there, which was the first one that I made and I remember a friend of mine who's also Director was just like Oh. You know like you didn't give them much that much direction I mean I would make comments between takes but I wasn't really pushing them and he was like Oh i you know I would really push them. I was like they were giving me what I wanted. I don't need to make my voice known in less it needs to be known. You know what? I mean it's like a there's a sense of trying to maybe it's just getting older. That I that I WANNA trust. Other people in late let a little bit of weight off my back. You know. Maybe you. Max instead of making them in that case Oh actually I have I should change that. I'm talking to you on macro right now there's actually the first desktop Mac that I've ever owned thirteen years after launch you you know what? For some of the biggest clients internationally, it's the work ethic that served you well, and and that's a difficult thing to get across. Sometimes in this you know I won't everything now instagram kind of well, you know sharp let me have my fame and fortune my skills and I want them on a plate and on the now you've worked for Avenue I. Think. So yeah in fact I'm not I'm not a huge fan of Instagram, I'm on there I did my daily wadden three, sixty, five series on there. All right. Like I don't post that often not particularly good at it. I don't have that many followers I feel like it's not a great izard instagram sometimes feels like sort of spotify of photography. You know what I mean in the sense that. Yeah lots of people can see your stuff, but you're not actually making a living from stuff that people are seeing necessarily. Yeah I mean I think that it's it's sort of a slow and steady wins. The race kind of thing you know are there people who come out of nowhere and have been shooting for a year and a half that make me want to throw my camera off the bridge? Sure. But then again, it may be that I'm seeing the best three pictures they've ever taken I'm seeing them. You know it's like going back to that kind of thing I tried to not look at too many people other people's work too often because I, do get sad and I do get frustrated and I do get envious. So I found that while there are people who are sort of heroes of mine and I don't feel like, I'm in competition with them. I don't feel like I'm in competition but Dan winters. But there are people who I know who are some friends of mine who all look at their work all God. Picture that's amazing. That makes me mad. And I'll have to look at it for a while because I'll be so upset about it. You know. But you know what? I'm sure that there are people looking at my work or your work that are saying the same thing I mean you you don't know you know because I get emails from people all the time that that say, Oh, my God, you're work. So Amazing Blah Blah Blah, Bob. Thank you very much. You know and so you don't know how other people are seeing you. That's the other weird thing about social media, right that like just the way that people understand who you are. Based upon a of photographs of other people you know is really interesting. There's a big part of this though that is kind of putting on a show one thing going back to the beginning of the on taking pictures. Jeffrey and I were a hundred percent I mean we were raw like we didn't pull any punches about our lives and like our feelings and whatever it is like we lay it all out on the line. We certainly weren't up there standing saying everything's perfect our world and our business is great and whatever you know because putting on that kind of Pastiche doesn't make any sense to me. You should who you are. And I think a lot of social media is about putting on a front like this impervious front, a lot of times and to me. It's artificial. It doesn't make any sense to me but what about what about graph? Those? It's taken the time to get to where you are. I'm not as that's been hard work isn't it? Yeah absolutely and a lot of ups and downs. Yeah. you know I mean I. Certainly, you also have to remember that I entered the professional photographic world around two, thousand, seven, two, thousand, eight there right before the entire world economy crashed for three years out there was wasn't the best timing not the best timing at all and you know it goes it goes up and it goes down and there's you know times when there's not a lot of work and then there's times when you're. Hopping on airplanes flying all over the place trying to do something you know. So it's really I tend to think of at least the paid work as when it comes it comes I have my agent. Happy Blue Call Me. But in the meantime, I have to not really think about that all that much. And just keep making stuff for me. You know there's a lot of people who say, Oh, I can't wait till I can become sixty five or seventy. I could retire like I don't want to retire I like doing what I do I've never been on a portrait job that I didn't enjoy Zach Ryan you know yeah. Like his I don't shoot stuff that I don't WanNa shoot you know like I don't shoot engagement portraits and I don't shoot you know weddings or anything like that, and I don't shoot events like the stuff I shoot is We need a picture of Neil for this magazine or we I'm this author and I'm coming out with my new book and you please, photograph me. That stuff. Absolutely I'll spend two hours with you talking about your book and then take some pictures in the meantime but I. I think in some ways you know there are a lot of people who take portraits and that will I mean like even the humans in new. York guy where he'll, oh, let's get intimate and tell all the story that the person is saying and then the pictures with this. For me the conversations I have with people tend to get really deep into the weeds with them about their mental state. But to me that's privileged conversation and I want that intimacy to come out in the photograph. Yeah I don't WanNa, have to have implicit and say, Oh, we were talking about her divorce from her husband or whatever it is. It's like no if you can see something in her eyes and that makes a connection with you because we were talking about the divorce, the reason divorce with her husband I feel like. Using that as a motivator for the image is fantastic. There's enough commentary not alone. Yeah and I definitely don't. There's also photographers manipulate the classic, avenue? Telling this story to the Duke and whatever about killing the dogs and they make the weird face or you know car scrapping the stogie out of Churchill's mouth or whatever it is I would I would never do that like I'd rather get them with honey than with vinegar. But. Yeah. It's subjects are the best part of this for somebody who makes so many traits you apparently don't like being them. There's actually one on your three, six five sites identing features you upside down for obvious reasons but On the glass. Well. You know keenum being the subject of the pages that that one actually the there's the one where my head is in the. Fish, tank actually is down in a fish tank. Is It on white background? Yeah. Actually, upside down in a fish tank. With my head's actually underwater. I made that actually in the middle of the night while I. was all alone which probably was not a good move because if I fell in my head. Brooklyn photographer dead in his apartment. Bit Tree One I don't think I look particularly good in most photos and I've never been able to take a lot of good self portraits of myself. Now, I'm one of those people look better moving than I. do still you know it's it's fine I've had people take portraits of me, and I think some of them are okay. But mostly I don't know I don I I've I've I've a friend name Alicia crowded who does a series of self portrait? And she's a beautiful woman and like the lighting is really nice. She comes up with these really interesting ideas and they're really artistically interesting and I look at them and I'm envious of them because I'm like I could never do that because I don't look like that in a picture you know so. It's just never been about I'm a photographer, but it's not really about me. You know what I mean it's always I. It's I find the other people far more interesting. Let's talk about the conceptual side view photography because that's that's that's another Saudi was featured on the website says another sizable part of your work Tell me about this and and because that's very different because now we're moving into who am I the surreal with some of it humbly yeah. A lot of a lot of surrealism and there's a lot of them end up being sort of based on dreams or different things like that. That that some people have I did a whole series of basically it's like you know. Weird crazy dreams that people have had were there there mermaid or they're you know touching the moon or that kind of thing the things I like about the thing I like about those is that they generally involve a lot of post production and can positing there's a shot of a guy leaning against a tree in his apartment that's other on. Yeah. That must tell you longtime. Yeah. I mean we shot his apartment and I poured a little dirt on the ground around where the edge of the tree would be so that I got the transition between the slower and the dirt you know and we went up to the park and gentleman against a tree, and so the dirt went into the dirt that I had put into in his apartment So a lot of times for those it's it's a problem solving exercise about how do I get what I need so that when I get back to Photoshop, I can create what I want to create and Some of my early ones were not as good as some of my later ones. So that's also progressive. You you learn what you can do and what you can't do and what you need to do to match stuff There's there's a shot in their of my friends e painted into a bookshelf. She's she's like nude and painted into a bookcase as what that picture is. One of those things that ends up shared all over the place on Pinterest and whatever you know. And People say Oh do you do that Photoshop I was like actually that one is in camera like we you know we painted her but the thing is is that if you have your arm up like this on a bookshelf, your back is all twisted weird way. So if you just stand her up and paint bookshop bookshelf when she twists her whole body goes out of whack absolutely. So. Basically, you have to have her in that position in Mark, how everything is and then painter and then so it stretches right. So it's sort of like these kinds of things that you never really think about you know when when you're when you're doing normal stuff, I want to do more of this kind of work commercially because I, just find it interesting the problem solving aspect of it. But it's funny. People tend to hire me for very straightforward portrait's and I was like but I could make you walking on. A bunch of stars in the sky and they're like, yeah. Now that's not what I WANNA do. There's there's there's a shot I did of my friend Ashley where she's canoeing with a with a her cello as the paddle and people get really upset about it because they think that I'm destroying this this cello in reality she was sitting on my table in my living room with her cello and you know I shot the the back play in prospect park up the hill. and. I. Actually didn't have access to a canoe and I put out a call on twitter something I said, does anybody have a canoe and one guy says I of this metal canoe in my backyard and I was like perfect I said, could you take a picture of it? So like at this angle or whatever and he did, and that's what I used the canoe so lousy. Sitting in a canoe, she was just sitting on a table to canoe somebody else's the background with somebody. Else's you know. Make water splashes in black tank. So I can have things to go around the front of the canoe and sometimes you'll look at years later and think Oh man it would have been so much more real if I had added ex- I asked to visualize cooled Eric Hanson about He's a Swedish favorite good about whether he kept a dream diary for some of his ideas for for that kind of visualize. What did he say? Well, he said no but I mean I'm intrigued with you because you're very inventive photography wondering. Note down some of your ideas. Anyway. Most of the time you know it's funny back to back to the beginning. If you told me right now that I had to make all of these things I would never come up with ideas. Sometimes it's like you have an idea for one thing the mermaid in the in the bathtub. Great. Oh, that'd be really cool as if we had somebody the the girl with the moon sent me a picture of her parents roof. Their apartment building in the upper west side and there was one of those water tanks and it had a ladder up the side of the water tank and I was like, Oh, you know be amazing if you're climbing that water tank. We were just gonNA use the roof as is, but the water tank made me think about somebody climbing up towards the sky and that made me think it'd be really fun if she was reaching towards something and so it ends up being a step by step process, which is why I find planning very unproductive. It really just comes down to throwing myself into it and seeing where I end up tumbling. Thanks to bill woman over the last three weeks. Tomorrow on the show we continue talking with Nile Council, artist writer journalist who remembers the chilling day he came to be practically face to face with the man who shot him. So the gone there are volver and even see the bullets in the Chamber of the revolver or you know the. The holds in the. Over outside gruesome was this. That's tomorrow. Thanks to MP trading thousands of cameras and lenses every week across Europe and the states. It can go to MPP DOT com if you're thinking of changing kit either by ABS- buying or selling an empty check and a great and they photograph every single item and they add a six month warranty as well. So it can be sure of what's in the box. Music on the show was artless dot by own. I look forward to photograph with their me and talking with you tomorrow photography daily is a loading zone production.

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TCF Ep. #531 - Brooke Schultz

The Candid Frame

51:34 min | 5 months ago

TCF Ep. #531 - Brooke Schultz

"Creativity is more than just having talent. It's about making a choice to utilize whatever talent you do have. That's a lot easier to say than do sometimes because self doubt and insecurity can service considerable obstacles. It didn't start that way because as kids we created without such distractions sometimes I think we spend a lifetime trying to unlearn all that stinking thinking. For Brooke Schultz her love of photography is more than just about making memorable portrait's families but helping other photographers to leverage their desire to be creative person. Using her workshop center podcast heartful with Brooke. Celts, she does just that. This was a conversation that very much looked forward to as it provided a special moment of positivity during some very dark times. This is e body and ex and welcome back to the candidate frame. The KENDRA frame thriller Nice to have you Thank you so much for having me a buyer your next. Are you know Marshall is often about more leading a creative lifer leading fruit for photographic line, which is all about just being creative in your your podcast in a lot of what I picked up from you focuses on that as well. So I thought this might be fun time not just the learn about your work but just to have. A conversation about creativity. Let's do that as much as I wanNA learn about you in your work I think. Having a conversation like this, like this is always always good to have someone. Yes. Thank you. In one of the things Dow was kind of interesting was this idea of giving yourself permission to be creative. And having been a man I you know I always taken it from the male perspective because it's the only choice that Hap- But. It's interesting in terms of something that I heard in terms of what of your episodes speaking from a woman's perspective especially, a woman who is. A wife, a mother, and in terms of sometimes the guilt that some women feel who are under the circumstances about making the choice to be creative from the cells in in terms of seeing it as something that selfish. And thought that was really interesting and it's not something that I really have had an opportunity to really discuss specifically of touched on it. I. Think at least a couple of times on your podcast I thought that would be really interesting way of starting in the conversation so. Talk to me about that. Wow well, I'm curious to know. have. You ever experienced that like a guilt feeling for being creative or is it just like I'm creative and I need to kind of work through the creative process but not so much the gill in terms of other aspects of your life most of my guilt is been not doing mea. Not so much that I felt like I was depriving. The. People in my life something as a result of making the choice to be creative. No every you sharing that because I think it's speaks to what women currently experience in a cultural sense that to be a good wife mother or just women in general, you are expected to do it all do it all perfectly and don't let anyone see you sweat dining and Especially to be a quote unquote mother you're expected and it's kind of like this seeing that runs in the background I think of just give yourself entirely to your children and any time that you spend away is somehow. Demerits or like a is taking away something very valuable from them, and so that's been something that I've had to really consciously. Reprogram in my own belief system to believe that the creative impulse is a human impulse and regardless of our roles whether it's a mother grandmother, you don't professional creative person or just someone who enjoys taking pictures or whenever you're creative outlet might be that those impulses are human that any humans in your care whether it's children or otherwise are going to be benefited by that creative impulse in my watching you be creative. Did. You ever feel this before you were a parent or is something that seems they've. Become especially pronounced after every given birth to kids. I think it's definitely more after having kids kids are so needy. ME. Need you all the time and especially as. In my family and many women as a mother, you're the primary caregiver and so you're the one that it falls upon to fill those kids needs all the time and my kids are really little. They're seven, five, four and three months so. You know they they need me a lot and so walking that line and that tension and dance between how much they need me and what I need. Myself is a really interesting one to walk and I think all of us walk that one way or in creativity because we have other obligations besides just you know sitting around getting inspired making creative work you know. So it's attention that everyone can relate to but I think it's especially prevalent in mother had. had sort of come to terms of that early in my in my marriage because I've. Came to my photography like, but I wanted to do it. I would do it. Part of the negotiation in terms of my relationship with my spouse in terms of our time together and making photographs is like I had to be really conscious of the fact. I. Am is about US spending time together not just for go photographs. and. That was sort of source attention. On especially when we go on vacation or do. Because, I always said my camera with me. So I said the more considerate. And they didn't kill easy. I think it was largely as a result of me trying to make my wife happy as well as deep, still being able to express that part. So I had to sort of find a way of coming out with a balance. Otherwise. I never really had to consider someone else's desires or wants or needs when it came to. Whether I want I want a time to dedicate to whatever form of creativity that won't. Yeah. It's interesting that you say that because I think especially as mother's things changed so much more quickly you know my my little one who's three months old is a completely different kid than he was at one day old you know in terms of his needs and personality is abilities what he can do and so I think we gotta give ourselves permission to get. It wrong. You know there's going to be times where I lean to where you you know. I'm on vacation I take too many photos and there's going to be times where I'm in the thick of motherhood and I really need to pull out the camera for myself but I don't for whatever reason. So I think that that dance and that willingness to get it wrong sometimes no matter how far along your creative path you might be is really key. Did. You already have an active for revenue business before you got married and I started my business in two, thousand twelve and so I got married in two thousand ten. So I didn't, and then my daughter was born in two thousand thirteen. So is kind of it was right before but very, very much all at the same time. Told me about how that came to be my business or the. Choice to become professional photographers. So when I was getting married I. Mean I fell in love with Jonathan countless. If you know his work, he is a portrait wedding photographer in like two thousand eight and his work was work I just fell transported by that I felt like I knew the subjects that his images took me somewhere else and having that experience was so magical. So I became sort of a photography enthusiast at that point then I was getting married and having my own wedding images that was A. Really Fun and also Kinda Rocky. Experience I started out with a photographer who I didn't Gel with and then. As far as like style and I was trying to make her something she wasn't which has we all know is never a good never could idea and then I ended up with a wedding photographer who I absolutely loved and loved the images that I saw, and then after having that experience of being on the other side of the camera, then I really felt like maybe I could do this and I had a family friend when I was in high school who took me under her wing and Helped me learn photoshop and I did editing for her. So I was just I was just a buff for a while and then after I got married then. Was Young and stupid and just thought I can. Do this you know I mean my coworker was getting married and she wanted to have the cheapest wedding possible and I just foolishly raised my hand and said I can do that and it was classic every rookie mistake you can make I made but at the so I started out as a wedding photographer and then as I had more kids and my kids started getting older than I started to fall in love with family family photography and family work. Being young and dumb doesn't as data just. Maybe. Maybe. Dumb for I. Think naive part. Yeah. It's. Probably better description of that because he doesn't know what you don't. You don't know what you what you can do. Oh, hundred percent. We can be a really serve with good thing not too much can can be. Just. As stifling is not knowing enough. Yeah. Yeah. A new mention my podcast. My podcast is basically like a pep talk for all of us to try to make more work, make more creations and I think my twenty year old self would've at that and thought what who needs that who needs a pep talk about how to make stop just God. Who Cares? I do You had talked about starting a novel and one of the things that I liked about that is like no one ever has to see it. Because it's fun and I will take. Oh. I know how true that is. But it was it was a good reminder that anything that I do creatively I can just do it for the pleasure of event and no one ever has to see it. Am I think part of the struggle that I have and I think a lot of people have is that GONNA be. Choose to be creative it's going to be any good and that always assumes the fact that someone else is going GonNa, see it and make a judgment on it. I know no one ever has to see. You enjoy doing it. You can just do it for the pleasure of it and never have to worry about whether it's quote unquote. Good. Did, you have a good time making it at dairy and I think as adults week completely lose that and as you mentioned in that episode, kids don't worry about it. They just makes stuff just for the sake of making it. Yeah. Yeah. Their judgment is so much. They hardly ever have judgments about whether their work is good or not good like I. Don't think none of my kids sit around looking at their. Finger paintings. Saying Oh, this one so good or this one. So not good. They just keep making and I'm so inspired by that to just kit all the mind drama away from it and just get right to the heart of it which is. That creative. Human Impulse, and let's just follow that without all this extra baggage. To fill me about the as you were growing gear your business, you know getting more clients. What did you start finding? Were your your strengths because as you know there, there's no shortage of people who photograph weddings have kids for. Families. And you can't help but start comparing yourself especially as April you're you're you're starting to emulate but I think an important part of being able to see for yourself through those initial times is is not so much where that people are paying you it's is more. Recognizing the things that you're good at are the feel good about when you're doing again, tree you and I love that distinction between things that you feel you're Gooda and things that you feel good doing because like we were just saying the creativity in all its forms, it's about what you feel good doing and for me it was it was two sides of the same coin. I felt so good seeing people through the camera and through the Lens and showing them a version of themselves that they really resonated with. I. Remember getting an email from a bride who just said Oh I'm just crying how did you? Make me look this good. All My life I've hated photos of me, and you somehow made me look incredible and that was my first taste of photography being able to transport someone else to better version of themselves, and then as I got into family photography, I realized how necessary in life giving that was for me on both sides of the camera that. So much of my mother life was invisible and I would make food that we would eat without proof that it was ever there. I would do all this work in my four walls every day that nobody was there to witness to be able to see. Me With my family through imagery. self-portrait Sir images that other photographers had made of me. Made me feel like my my best self and that was the feedback that I got from other mothers especially was this helps me do that invisible work with more passionate test and you know vitality than I could without being seen that way. So but the flip side of that is that struggle of feeling invisible and I think lots of. Humans and creative people all of us together we want to avoid the struggle we want to focus on this drinks. Every strength is a weakness right at the same time. If you're really good at, you know see helping people be seen you might also feel invisible you know nuts, it's two sides of the same coin. But as artists, we really have that calling to lean into those those curiosities and those struggles in our own lives to think make our most powerful work or like the description of those qualities being different sides of the same coin. Because I think we tend to look at negatives being completely encapsulated everything about us. Tonight steadily. True. The Yeah. I. Used to be so jealous and just wildly envious of women who wanted to stay home and they were content to be stay at home mothers and they didn't have you know all these big dreams and things that I had. My mom is a stay at home. Mom She was supermom in every sense of the word. So I had so much baggage around that. Until I realized Hey, I'm not the only one with this struggle and I think that's the beauty of art and any type of photography is that it can really shine a spotlight on those areas that we feel like our such a problem like you said, the negative stuff that we kind of just wish we could eliminate and say, hey, maybe this isn't the worst thing. Maybe this is just part of the GIG and now I've just made so much more peace with that to say. What a gift like this is. A gift to struggle, it's a gift to have the tension. It makes for interesting work. It makes for an interesting life. We all think that we wanNA life without problems. But that life would be so boring the choice to dedicate yourself to being a good parent as well as having a business. That's a lot of energy choirs, a lot of time and Buzzard Limited So what are the things that you do to be able to make sure that you're dedicating sufficient time to whatever you need to do in terms of your business as well as being able to take care of your kids especially with the age range that? The they're all going to school, right? Yeah. Very demanding of germs of your time. Yeah. I photographed a family a little while ago and we had done a maternity session. She had a little toddler. She was pregnant with her second baby. So we've done a maternity session and I was in town again right after her baby was born and so I was like, Hey, let's do a newborn session. Let's do it. Let's do it and she was like I don't know we just did that other such like she went back and forth we almost didn't do the session we ended up doing it and that baby unexpectedly died two weeks later. And I mean, of course is apparent. That's your absolute worst nightmare. And those images, she looks tired and some of them you know she and her husband they look like you look if you don't know that's coming in two weeks you know there's there's everything wrapped up in those images. There's joy. There's heartbreak there's. I mean heartbreak that just comes with being in a family not not just with us there's everything in those images and so to answer your question. Helps me the most is offering the power of what I'm doing whether it's in my mothering life or in my business and my photographic life that it matters so much and that even though we can talk about the the power of photographs in a way that kind of. Becomes a little trite or cheesy with. With stories like I'm telling it, it's no less true. You know that that the work we do matter so much and so when I'm working and I work from home and my kids are screaming outside the door with the nanny than I, just try to give myself a little bit of a view of the forest through the trees like. This matters so much the work that I do for clients matters so much, and then when I'm not doing work, the work that I do with my kids matter so much. Talking about this I'm trying to be sensitive in term so you know gender roles. Of Not, just simply asking the simply because you're a woman but. For me, the circumstances under which Amana is primarily taking care of kids as usually happens later on in a kid's development, it's after a parent parents split up. And it's usually the kids already in school. So they may cheer custody or the the man may have primary custody of apparent, and so the dynamic is very different because it's not really early in the kids. The kids age right. When they're fairly fairly young. And now the dynamics of what a family is can vary greatly but I suspect that you had a chance to talk to a variety of different people as a result of your work as well as the the podcast. and rather than seeing is you know particularly group is Monolithic what what what have you what have you learned about different people in different roles contend with this thing what we're talking about? Yeah. That's a great question and what I've learned probably won't surprise you, which is that we're so much more likely than we are different and what I was saying before about how we think about struggle as being this solitary thing and often photography we do as a pretty solitary thing. That's one of the things that. So life giving to me about photographing families and being able to be that witness for them is that I see over and over every family the same things I see I see. All those things I was just talking about about joy about heartbreak about the sacrifices each parent makes to raise a family. I see the pain of being a kid. The struggle of being powerless child ic the tenderness between you know a a parent and a child and that no matter kind of what the makeup is of that family that there's so much more similarities than so much more just human s I mean I think that is what is so compelling to me and many others about photography is that you? Just can't you can't hide your human self when you're in front of the camera, you all your all the emotions come out in one way or another whether it's through your body language or through your voice I mean it's vulnerable experience to be photographed and I think there's a bit of a contrarian NPR of loves that revelation no matter who I'm photographing. For me to make my life work, it has to be heavily structured Calendars moments, I have to meditate exercise. Just the meanings I may have the work that I have to do I mean if it's not raining down, it's very easy for me to forget it and it's easy for me to be distracted. Especially, all the variety of things that I have going on in in my life. To you rely on structuring what tools do you use in order to make sure that everything that you needed to get done? Gets done. An very attached to the I cal the counter I sir. Scheduling things but I think the biggest thing for me is being able to. Transition with grace and. Because I do want. All of it I WANNA do everything. I want to be an amazing mother and an amazing photography and an amazing business owner podcast or you know all those things and to be able to do that for me I found that the key is those transition points and being able to say okay. Yes. Now I'm. Brooke Mom, Mom Brooke, and now I'm photographer Brooke and. To let those things. They 'cause they of course, they crossover and they intersect with one another by that's the biggest challenge is to deal with those intersection points with grace I think. It's been a difficult year making it a challenge for everyone speaking personally, the last couple of weeks have been especially exhausting. I'm easing off of my consumption of news media because the unrelenting negativity is making it difficult to maintain an attitude of positivity. I've gotten many messages from listeners that this show has provided many just such an alternative. I'm very grateful that I can be that for many of you providing you with a positive hopeful and encouraging voice. I think we can all do with more of that. If. The show provides you. Please consider supporting US financially. You can do that by contributing five dollars ten dollars, twenty dollars or more month by visiting Petri on dot com forward slash the candidate frame. That modest amount makes a huge difference for us and we can do with your kindness and support become a patriotic supporter today. Thank you. So. Go. With the schedules you set for your for your shoots assume that because. Families are weddings at it's oftentimes a a weekend affair but nevertheless, you have a lot to do between those. But dummying with that looks like from week to week Mama what have you found that works for you? Yeah I think this is a great question because so many photographers just think the vision of success is to shoot as much as possible and I don't shoot all that much. I shoot on average two to four, his family sessions a month, and that's all. So I mean I do those mostly on on weekends but because it's just a two or three hour round trip gig. And it's so life giving to me than it doesn't feel like this huge time away from my family, and then right now I'm working about sixteen hours a week from home and that has shifted ice to work about ten hours a week but. You know just. The. What I'm saying about transition points and being able to be flexible like that's what's working right now but I have to be willing to. Reevaluate that at any point you know my kids needs might change my needs might change whatever it is to say like, okay, this was working last month. It's not working anymore, and then that's the beauty of being able to be creative person being able to be an entrepreneur entrepreneurs that you can dial it in and change it up as much as you want and I think a lot of people. A entrepreneurs specifically kind of chain themselves to you know they have chains of their own making Mike this schedule that we've made that we think we can't mess with, but it's like you're the one who made it. So you can go ahead and if you I you know. Learning, all the business stuff I think he's much more of a challenge than it is learning the photographic stuff. It's amazing. You can get away with in terms of. Not Knowing comprehensively about photography it's still. To. Say that as much when it comes to the business side so or resources, did you use it order to get? Up to snuff with those. I am A. Multiplicity of contradictions as we all are, but there's there's a part of me that loves the artistry and loves like just feeling the feelings and being inspired and let's get down with creativity I love it, and then there's the other part of me that it's marketing for breakfast and I I do have a passion for business definitely, not as much of a passionate artist streep I love the business stuff and. So I mean I can I can tell you you know whatever resources you're curious about. But the overarching principle for me has been to look outside of photography at what's working in business at what's working in online business specifically, like most photographers don't think of themselves as being in running an online business, but that's mostly that's a huge bulk of what we do. Right. So I study business in marketing and everything from that outside perspective and then Ch- apply it to photography. Rate, insight what are what are some of the top things that you learned that you realize invaluable respect to one of the things is having an email list I mean, maybe that is a common. Common now but for so long everybody in the online world was saying you have an email lists and nobody in the photography world was doing it and so to be able to like, it seems so simple to collect people's email addresses. So you can reach out to them directly instead of waiting for them to come to you whether that's on social media or any other platform. But having any Melissa and not to stay sign up for my newsletter that you actually offer them something that they want in exchange for their email address. So maybe it's a free guide for what to wear to your family session that they get as soon as they sign up, and then you're able to stay in touch with them about your family sessions that kind of thing. One of the things about an email less than something I'm still learning in terms of all the marketing is you have to ask want Oh sore huge. So but especially for creative suspiciously assists photographers, it can very be very difficult to ask Well you gotTa do it otherwise you won't get you want. Read your mind and say Oh, he wants a job he wants money. But getting over the the anxiety of asking is been simply learned to get over but talking about that that part of it is A. Big. Hurdle to to get over. Yeah. I I'm glad you brought that up. That's huge and something I still struggle with for sure and I think underlying is often because we enjoy photography so much than we think we don't deserve to get paid well for it somehow or also that. If. We just put up photos on instagram. People will clearly know that we are talkers and they can pay US money to take their photograph. But that's not always the case. Right you can. Like you're saying, you can ask people for what you want and. I was just talking to a group of photographers the coaching and I was saying you can reach out to people and ask them to hire you individually in the were just mind blown like what I can just reach out to somebody it'd be like, Hey, if you had family photos recently, I would love to shoot you and your family like majors or like I do that. That's amazing. So I think that like anything else is just a muscle that gets better as you practice that you're gonNa feel awful and maybe a little slimy the first time you ask someone to pay you for your services like specifically instead of just a general like post on instagram type of deal but the more you do it the better you get at it, and like you said the more you ask the more you receive and I think that the capacity to receive is actually a really underrated skill that we as creative people should and could all really benefit from exercising more. And I think with every opportunity that you have to practice what you love making photographs that helps students still ear inherent feelings of value about your work. That only being able to ask for more money initially, but eventually asking for what you're worth. For money is one thing asking what you're worth is is something else. Remember get there if you never put yourself out there i. He Yeah Yeah I, think that there's this idea among artists like, oh, I don't care about money. It shouldn't be about money I'm a purist. I only care about the art and I think if that's generally true for you that's one thing. But I think a lot of times that's just a mask and kind of cover up to say I don't know how to ask for money for this I. Don't know how to receive money for what I do and therefore I'm just going to say I don't care about it. I think that that part of that response is they assume that the people that are doing it for money are doing the doing it for as altruistic reasons. Yes. Acres they can make money I'm doing it because I just love it and it's like, no, let's not. Mutually exclusive, Zachary. Ek someone has debate for all the stuff. The software the computer, you know all that stuff the money has to come from somewhere nearby and much preferred. Have other people helping me to pay for all this stuff. Cushions on the couch. Of fully well, I think that people forget what a pleasure it is to pay for a beautiful experience and beautiful art. I mean, if you think about something that you love paying for like if your electric company called you up, was like, sorry, you just you can't pay US anymore, you can't have electricity anymore we'd all be like, no, please let me pay you money like please let me pay this this money and as artists. What we do is less tangible, but it's no less valuable I mean if you think about. When we're in the darkest of times like bright in the in the beginning of all the covid nineteen madness and the pandemic when it was really bad and we were all kind of collectively I think really down depressed. What did we do? We turn to art return to the artist's we washed our favorite movies. We read our favorite books. You know we listened to more podcasts than usual Regis listen to the best music. We turned to the artists of the world to say help me through this and to say that that's not valuable or that those artists should be doing that purely from altruism I think it's just crazy. You're doing you're doing your podcast in congratulations on getting over a hundred episodes. It's no wealthy. Thank you. As, we already talked about you're busy. You got a lot of. Much less coming up podcast producer, but in terms of. Who you're targeting. I don't necessarily I don't necessarily see is is your audience being the people that are hiring you to to be a photographer or am I mistaken? That's the thing about podcasting is it's hard to measure right? Like it's hard to say. So I, definitely gotten clients from the podcast and kind of people who knew my work before but then became more invested in me and what I'm all about and You know making the work that we do in family really visible instead of so in the background. Definitely, clients have come from the PODCAST, but you're right. It's not. It's not a lot of potential clients and it's geared a lot more towards people who have a creative inkling that they're not currently following, and that was just as I worked with other photographers and workshops and retreat in online teaching all those different settings what I found over right over was the same problems that kept coming up, which wasn't I don't know what to do next or. I don't have enough time or money or anything to do my creativity or to do this photo project that I really want or whatever it was and is that it's all of the mind all of the thoughts, all of the mind drama, all of the reasons why we hold ourselves back that. was really getting in the way it wasn't. It wasn't the excuses that we often think of of time or money or experience, or any of those things 'cause. People have done. You know what you WANNA do with less time money or experience the New York. Times going to pass anyway right. So it's just about being able to get over yourself enough to make the work and do the creations, but in terms of. That aspect of my business it, it is a little bit separate but I do a lot of work with other photographers and. A lot of families I'm photographing now our other photographers families. So they you know there's there's crossover points. About the Jewish to to do it because back when I got started, they were much. So I didn't have compare myself with which is one of the reasons I think I was able to do it as laser. Yeah you're no g you around a long time I mean huge congratulations on that too. So. You mean the choice to do it as far as where do I fit in the market of podcasting. You know anytime you jump into a pool or they're already a lot of other swimmers. You can easily convince yourself. Why should I bother? There's already somebody else do released podcast dozen other people already doing this first news excuse not to. Yeah, and for me, it was that I couldn't do it. I was just talking to all my family and friends constantly and saying what are you wanting to create that you're not creating and trying to pep talk them into actually making things and so I it for myself and that was the first impulse didn't honestly I didn't consider the market hardly at all as I jumped in and I just thought even if the only listener is my mom shout my mom. Then this podcast is for me right at me I and if it helps somebody else along the way, that's a bonus. and. I think your question overall is a really interesting one of kind of why bother it's really saturated and that's been a classic question photography as of. Recent years where tar free has become so much more accessible and anybody can pick up a camera and do it but I think what? I would say and tell me your thoughts on this is. So what if it's saturated and it's it's it's all been done but it hasn't been done by you and that specific point of view that you have. You don't realize how unique it is until you're much further down the line. So you have to follow the trail. You have to just pick up one breadcrumb at a time and keep going until you figure out what it is that makes you unique. You don't you. I don't think you can know that at the beginning. Germany factor is, is the riffing on something you said is that it's something that I have to do not just wanted. Even if it starts off as a lot when it turns into a have to do and it's because it's a completely different beast. From there, you can mind the energy and the will to be able to press during those times when you just don't want to do the work. It's just something that you WanNa do It's easily easy to come up with excuses to not to do the groundwork that has no glamour or Gloria, but it's absolutely necessary at our final result. But like you said, did the show just for very selfish reason I wanted to ask you. To Talk to these people and it's very countersue I wanted to listen to. Yeah. You know that's the reason to do it not because it's GonNa Derive some sort of. A secondary money and fame. Rosen s thing that's. Six daydreaming. Singer expecting. For share can agreement. So tell me about working with these other photographers. have. That sort of start manifesting its office is part of what you did. Yeah. So I was really guilty of something. A lot of photographers are guilty of, which is just kind of circling our own drains and being in our own echo chambers in the photography world and so I, kind of just thought you know this is who I'm talking to other photographers. So I kind of accidentally built a business for other photographers. As my as my family work started to. Become more to me and have more of a unique perspective than more photographers started to see that and go I. Want I want to do that with my clients? I don't want to just do the cheesy were standing in the phone leaves you know smiling for the Christmas card type photos I, want to touch all these different aspects of of what it is to be family, and so I started out doing a one day workshop where he taught everything that I about working with families, all my tips and tricks for losing them. Up for you know working with kids all of the above and then that was an amazing experience but it was incomplete for everyone who came, and so now I do a retreat that a few days and we do five families shoots and we get it just geek out on family photography and getting those candidate images more of that lifestyle. We do a lot of in-home family photography as well. So it's really fun to be able to, as you know like have that experience with other photographers where you can just Kinda Geek out and May I'm bobby working on a personal project where I document the morning routines of young families and just go to their homes. Look soon after they've woken up in the morning. It's been about three hours and then I'm just like a fly on the wall. That's just propelled by something I wanted to do just obser- at an it's been so much fun to photograph in that way. The. Things ought made is if I'm ever asked to family pictures I, shoot it that way because I want. Comfortable taking people to a park or to. The photographs that because it's not in line with the way that I I see. It was an. Thing for me to recognize 'cause it's like I think that. Would have fallen into the trap of what I think I should be doing. That WANNA be doing. When That's how I feel comfortable shooting that was. In line with the way that I already work and and in line with how you view family your your story of what it is to be in a family is not tied to the beach or the park necessarily. So that's that's really beautiful above get you becoming comfortable with your own way out shooting. You know sure that there were ways that it was very different from what you observing other photographers are already out there doing this. Feeling. Okay. With just the way that I like to do things and being all right with that. And I think I didn't realize how different it was at first. I didn't realize how much of a black sheep I was until I started looking at the work and sort of comparing it a little bit to what was already. And that's the thing is, is that we look around and we want to know what's possible by what is being done. But if history has taught us nothing I, mean it should be that we can't predict the future by the pastor by the president. Of what's possible? So I really started to lean in and give myself permission to just love all the things that I love and to find beautiful all the things that I find beautiful I. think we all have a different sensibility in terms of beauty and what it is that we find beautiful and realizing that and kind of following that path of. Really noticing Oh what what is it that I find beautiful. So I was looking at a lot of a lot of fashion imagery to be honest and you know like I grew up just pouring over magazines and reading all of those. Typical beauty magazines and loving those photographs and so I thought and like you said about the podcasts that you made a podcast, you wanted to listen to I just made photos that I wanted to like where I wanted to be that mom of the way that high wanted to be seen as a mother and not just this like the moms are portrayed the same way in every commercial like there were they wear the same clothes they're for trade like in this very vanilla very. Same same way and I was much more concerned with like. A mother's individuality and in. In so much family photography that I was seeing I was focused on the kids. You know it was like all about the kids mom and dad were there for a couple whereas I really see family in terms of mom and dad, and because it all starts there and That relationship being the core of it, and of course that we can go as deep as we want without like my childhood and. My parents having a very strong relationship with each other and really putting each other I and including US kids in their romance and I mean I remember my mom enlisting me and my four brothers as waiters for their Valentine's Day dinner I. Mean we served them Valentine's Day dinner I. Mean that was the type of relationship that they had and so but my relationship with my husband is different than that and so I think that a lot of times as we make our where we're working out all those really deep psychological emotional. Experiences through our images and we forget that that can be in service of other people. You know I was kind of a long winded answer take. Just, came to mind is so much to win a DC family family photographer it's it's it's it's mostly sus gender families. You know got mother father. Kids, and there's some different types of families now. Not Parents that are gay or lesbian, but you also have similarites. In I'm wondering in terms of marketing to them or I don't know what the experience that you've had with with families in, which is only a single Barrett but in which. A Portrait is still becomes a consideration in end something that they want to buy buy into. Just I just realized that I don't see much of that look at. Photographers set Marketing Associate Family Photographers. And I think. So much of that is that we attract more of what we already show whether it's you know any any category and so if you are showing a lot of imagery of single parents, you will attract more single parents because they feel like you get them and you have shown that you've serve them you know same with any other you know category that's underrepresented. In the landscape right now and so what I would challenge all of photographers listening is what what don't you see what don't you see in the landscape of photography in your genre that you wish you saw and then go out and make that make it on your own time first and then you'll be able to get hired for it after you show that that's what you do. Well, my last question that I ask each guest is I asked them to recommend another photographer and it can be anyone. And somebody had long admired or someone you recently discovered. So who photographer being in Y. Oh do I only I get pick one. For another twenty minutes Oh. It's so true. Okay. So like current photographer or A. Okay. All right. Well, my all time favorite is Richard Avedon So I mean I highly doubt that anyone listening hasn't explored his work, but maybe just go give yourself a little refresher. If you haven't explored his working on a while because the way that he uses emotion and the way that he explores the landscape of a face and the dynamics between people and the way that he was a genus across. So many genres really inspiring. No matter what kind of photography you do. Thank you for that and thank you so much for your time on the Saturday I really appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me as a treat. Thanks to Brooke for joining US find out more about her and her work by visiting Brooke celts photography Dot Com, and check out our podcast. Heartful with Brooke Schultz. If you're a devoted listener and subscribe to the show Rightous Review on whatever service you listen to podcasts those reviews if a lot of to grow, you can also subscribe to our Youtube Channel and our mailing list on Youtube Channel for critiques images submitted by TC listeners like you while the mailing list keeps you updated with all TCI events, including workshops and more sign up today. And remember you can support the show by contributing to our patriots effort. Or make a one time or requiring donation via pay pal. Thanks to Michael, Lichter Savan Berle and met county for their recent contributions. We also provide a series of books photography available for purchase on our website. It's my way of sharing my experience and knowledge another way for you to support the show. 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TCF Ep. 478 - Sheila Pree Bright

The Candid Frame

53:22 min | 1 year ago

TCF Ep. 478 - Sheila Pree Bright

"There is currently an exhibit at the annenberg space for photography here in los angeles dedicated to hip hop photography called contact high it provides a comprehensive overview overview of how photography was used to market and shape the image and character of hip hop though initially defined by the sounds of 'em sees on the streets and clubs new york. It was the photographs that demonstrated that hip hop was as much about style as it was attitude. One of the photographers that helped define that era was sheila pre bright who began her documentation of the music scene not a new yorker even los angeles but in texas which provided a unique opportunity to photograph in ever evolving music scene at the same time she was learning the ins and outs of being working commercial photographer which sometimes involved not turning down an opportunity and i tend my first photography job was <hes> what burger king didn't know what i was doing. I was at a function and i can't remember how it all reflected but i met at this guy and he said he worked for burger king and he was looking for a photographer shoot areas. He said you know how to do that. I'm like yes. I didn't know how to do that right doc so he says you got a job and i'm so naive and i'm like okay so i went to one of the photographers that i was standing studying underneath and as cam i told him i had a job he said. How did you get that. I said he's i told him. I knew how to do aerial shots in an asset well. Can you be the system and you teach me while we up in the air and that's how it happened has been defined by her fine art photography obvi- her concepts are frequently inspired by questions of equality justice and what exactly does it mean to be an american in her work suburbia she explore the homes of middle and upper middle class black families while the images focused more on the space rather than its occupants it managed to still challenge the assumptions and and when i got there i had to still have publishers curator's consultants to look at the work and the majority majority of them when they looked at the work and i don't know why i was so stunned they didn't get it because they said that i didn't have in a signifies in the work to show that these as were black homes at baffled may because we're in the twenty first century and it showed me how a stereotype in once consciousness business is still there even though you showing them reality is like this look like my home. Why didn't you call it black suburbia. I i haven't heard of you suburbia. This is all of the stuff that was coming at me and me as an artist. I happen to be black and i'm calling it suburbia. I've been project it on because they want to identify it with blackness. Whatever the signifies that they wanted to see we'll talk to sheila butter work documenting the black lives matter movement and why public exhibition of her work is sometimes more important than being shown in a gallery. This is your body and ex and welcome back to the candidate frame. Thank you for having me but yeah thanks. I enjoyed meeting you d._c. Now get a proper chance to talk with you extensively. I would ask you know it was my pleasure meeting you. It's good to meet people that we don't know that's in a business. You wanna look like us actually and you work was amazing. I thought you underplayed underplayed it because you were going on. I'm trying to figure out. I don't know what to do and i want to keep it sure yeah. It's i don't know i just i guess this is who i am because i'm that that that it may not seem like i'm shy but i'm really still still kind of introverted it to me is about the work and not necessarily about me and i guess that's why i don't really like to speak to a certain certain extent but i have to. You did a good job once. The wheels are greased. You okay but i was reading up on you. It was interesting to see that you didn't get a bachelor's degree in photography came like later and it was your dad who encourage you to use cameras at right right. Actually my undergrad is text out these i so i don't i'm self taught as a photographer and when i moved to atlanta in nineteen ninety six my father is the one that says there's something about the photography and he said you're going to grad school. So that's why i went to georgia state in. I received my m._f._a. There yet that's when it started with him he he was like the fourth of everything say you going here because you have a very king interested in this is your dad and artists himself where it was just something that he saw i saw in the work that that spurred him that you know when i reflect that my father was the person in the family that would always be taking the photographs autographs of us and even when we travel he was the one when we traveled a lot and i remember distinctly as a young child in germany. He kept us in the museums. We had to go to the museums and stuff. He told me when i was young and this was in germany he says. I don't know what what you gotta do but you're going to do something creative but he didn't know what that was. So when you finished school you went down to texas and started photographing graphing hip hop. Why why did you feel driven to do that because this is early in the game when it isn't it isn't what it is now right right. Well you know coming from a background a daughter of a soldier. I think we were sheltered. Even we've around diversity. I wasn't really in the black community so when i graduated my brother how i got to houston was my older brother there. He was in houston so i moved there and i was just a curious person. I mean i didn't start off taking porteous of rappers. I actually started in the commercial side of it and i hung around professional photographers offers and they taught me the technical aspects of photography from the shutter speeds to the f. stotts about lighting and i tend my our first. <hes> photography job was what burger king didn't know what i was doing. I was at a function and i can't remember remember how it all reflected but i met this guy and he said he worked for burger king and he was looking for a photographer shoot areas. He said you know how to do that. I'm like yes. I didn't know that right so he says well. You've got a job and i'm so naive and i'm like okay so i went to one one of the photographers that i was studying underneath. I told him i had a job he said. How did you get that. I said he's i told him i knew how to do aerial shots and and i said well can you be the system and you teach me while we up in the air and that's how it happened. My first professional job was up the air with a door of hanging out taking photographs of areas and the photographer. That was a professional photographer. He play my sister this then he threw up. We couldn't come back down because we had to. <hes> seventeen locations we had to shoot in the pilot was was oh he was upset because you know when he threw out all of that flew on me and because the doors open it was crazy and he so apologetic any in sorry sorry we came down but that was my first entry into photography and the commercial ram didn't like it so i decided well. I wanna go foot photograph wrappers. I was real curious about hip hop okay and so i started hanging out in urban communities and started photographing and i start one thing led to another i was photographing independent that record companies and these young black males okay and then from there rap a lot found out about me because i was like the girl in houston texas that shooting shooting all of them so that's how it all started because at the time it was all about new york and a little bit you know l._a. What was happening in sort of in between those two wasn't really sort of a sort of a hot spot but it was happening everywhere so it was like it was really advantageous that you were in houston at the time yeah ah i didn't realize that at the time because you know you're familiar with rap a lot record in j. Prince you know he has a book out now. Call the art of respect yes that book is up and he talked about his career as as a record label company and i was a part of that i came in shooting scarface not the ghetto boys because that's when scarface brokaw from the ghetto boys and they were pushing him more and that is is who i was actually photographing and i was ashley photographing the other artists that is not as popular on rap a lot records. It's like big mike that i think there was one album and it was something is calls something serious at photograph tam for his city cover black monks wchs champs too low so i have a lot big mello a lot of them. I am fifth ward boys. Those are the ones that are photograph on rap a lot records. You have to at the time. It's it wasn't the image of what a rapper supposed to look like and be like was not as rigid as eventually angelique became you know where people were looking epi album covers they would see the pictures and all the people who came come up afterwards emulate what they had seen before but you are photographing in a time time where it was kinda like loose in free and when it came to you making your photographs in terms of you being able to make the photographs you wanted rather than having to fight fight a young rapper trying to be like whoever he was not only self after. Can you tell me about the process of creating unique injuries during the time well. I think it wasn't with the it was independent record companies i wasn't i was dealing with at rap. A lot records a director of that but i really had loose. I mean it like he was saying. It was very loose whatever i wanted to do they like was like go ahead and do it. I shot nothing. Ninety percent of the work is shot in black and white all of it is portraiture and when i flicked back and look at those images. It wasn't really think about this. I didn't go to school for photography. It was about what i saw. What i fail. I think i've always had an interest in the black males because i would engage with all of them not knowing that they were part of the culture where they were you know selling you know the selling and then part of me being around the gun culture. I was really into wi with them and asking them questions. Why are you all here at the house why you have all these guns those real guns and they really looked at me in surprise like you're really a white girl in a black body really don't don't you really don't understand but they allow me an and they talk to me like i don't wanna do this. You know they felt that they didn't have any other the choice but think about this back in that time didn't go to school didn't understand about concepts but i was asking those questions than when i was i was photographing. There is why you want to be a rapper. Why the guns why the drugs why of all of that you know and it was like it is a catch twenty two. I had to feed my family the damn if you do damned if you've done so when you're making these these photographs there weren't that were they a lot of photographers around to doing the same thing that you were and what i can scale up on in houston before for i started with rap a lot records. They had another photographer and what they were doing was just taking images clutching everything together in houston okay and i wasn't. I wasn't doing that. I it i guess it was i was so in tune to portraiture and photographing the photographic laughing black males. That's how i saw everything like i give you an example scarface they all i couldn't understand and that was my naively vity is why is it that they always want to photograph on the outside in the neighborhoods in looking that way. I didn't never i. I was like we gotta to do something else. This is a my mind so what happened. One day i had this idea and i talked to which name is brad which is scarface and told oh him that i listened to his music and he always talk about death and i sit is it was just really a sense of sadness and i told him him that i wanted to come over to his house and i wanted to photograph him in in natural light with the window like coming through him right. He was so excited about that. It wasn't on the outside like they basically was doing in the communities patchett which was the <hes> the <hes> graphic designer at the time. It rap a lot records. Call me and said don't do that. As virgin records virgin records was underneath that they were underneath that label cysts no. We're having the creative directors come to houston. Don't do anything and me being naive eve again. I call scarface and said look they don't want me to do this. I'm not coming over but thinking back on. I should have just took those photographs anyway but i didn't do it so we were outside in the streets again photograph him in the streets and the neighborhood so i i think i always had that unconsciously so so but didn't really know how to what is the one i say process it at the time photographing not realizing what i was doing lineup time with the exhibit and i got the book contact high which sort of a history of hip hop photography going back a way back in the day until now and and one of the things that really struck me about that so much of that photography was done by people who were part of the community that they weren't sort of outsider sort of coming in to you know photograph these these hip hop artists these rappers <hes> oftentimes it was you know the kids who weren't wrapping themselves but they had camera they they had film and they would just start shooting and there's an intimacy to those images that doesn't seem as contrived and as controlled as as so much of the imagery now when you were looking at other people's work during that same time period we you guys sort of checking out each other's work doc driving influence or was once working sort of in their own respective bubble from me. I think we were all working on <hes> perspective bubble because i i wasn't looking at i didn't know about really photographers anything like that but one thing that i was always looking at you remember when the magazine vibe magazine kazini was out. I love the photography and there i just loved it and i actually called the director of the magazine and wanted it to be a part of it but i never could be a part of it. You know i mean i'm not saying clinton but he never would. He saw the work is like us. Okay you know that kind of i think so. I just kept doing what i was doing but that was my influence of looking at the work but like you were saying earlier when you look at my work and when people look at the work together with all the black and white images they see more than just the rappers they see community with it has more. It's not the flash and you know. All of that is more about the community when people see that work now of my work. I'm just saying my work. You know a lot of your work is black and white was that sort of a purposeful choice especially as the interesting more commercial color work it was supposed to you know remember at that time i was like self taught so working for wrap records and the independent record companies his they wanted black and white promotional photographs so that's why i shot in black and white yes. That's that it wasn't made in thinking about is she shoot this in black and white. Should i shoot this in color. I do have a few images that i haven't shown yet that have been shot in color but not like <unk> set ninety nine percent of the work that i shot back then was in black and white because i was even shooting for promotional you know promotional their bios and they all want black and white imagery comet known for some of your conceptual work and when did that start coming into play when you started that so much doing portraiture for the purposes mrs of promoting these musicians these performance but more in terms of building it from an idea and then seeing it through to to a photograph when did that start playing a role naming photography. I'm a start off with this and then i'm answering your question and in houston when i was photographing the the portraits black and white these promotional promotional photos and an artist friends saw my work. He says you need to be in a show. I didn't know anything about our. I didn't know anything anything about m._f._a.'s. I don't know anything about any of that and i told him i wasn't gonna be any in show and he said i'm going to bring a curator over here. I didn't even have any idea what a curator was. Okay so when a cute when the curator came and he saw these images that i shy he was so blown on away he says i thought you was gonna have some cutesy little fashion and he says i want you in this show so i said okay in so when i accepted that and keep in mind never went to art school or anything like that i went and got shoe boxes on the whole concept for that was i wanted to get shoe boxes from nike because you know when it came to the n._f._l. And all of that that was just really hot right so i took those shoe boxes and spray painted him on the black on the outside an insight and had those images in the <hes> shoe boxes and that's how they were hung up now. Don't you think that was conserved. Show and i didn't even realize i knew what i was doing. At the time people would have to take a look in a hole in the shoebox. The photograph is no you know just open up the take the lid off the shoebox soviet black on the outside of the insight and i place i think they were about five oh by seven images this sizes so you as a viewer and i didn't realize that time you had to really get close to those images to look at him look into is looking through view. I didn't realize that i was doing that and when the curator when they had the opening the show. I wasn't gonna go any call me any says you need to get down here. I said no i do not. I said a pitches speaks for itself. Why do i have to come. He says sheila pleads so i came and when i came there were people at the door and frighten me and they wanted to talk to me about the work and one of the images it just that that you've seen what class see where my last frame on the row. I didn't know what to do. Classy had a gun. I told them the pointed at me and he said do you wanna point is gonna do as point that gun at me and that was the photograph and i blurred how you see the barrel of the gun an and people wanna. I'm going back to the exhibit. People wanted to ask me. Did he have a bullet in the gun and i said yeah well. I didn't think about asking okay. I just wanted this shot. 'em from their people told me that i was a gonna be a star star in the art world. I didn't know what all that met. You have women that. I was in a group show. Three other women had their m._f._a.'s. I didn't know nothing about any any of that. I left houston with my then. My now husband boyfriend we hidden after california. Okay i think about all this art stuff but my aren't we got to santa fe my aunt tests and we came to atlanta and that's when my father was looking at my work mark and says you need to go to school. This is something about this photography light and that's where i learned about <unk> how to see how to be conceptual with the work and that's where it all started because believe it or not when i had my show i i didn't know how to talk about work. I was like these approaches. The rappers okay but now reflecting back on it and i really didn't want to show this work because a lot of it was blackmails with the gun culture and i'm very protective of that because how others see us i didn't want it to be the same old thing the image of the stereotypes of a black male criminals though you know that kind of thing now i feel more comfortable now bringing network out which i never really showed the were and i'm babe. I'm understanding how to conceptualize it and talk about it. Now your personal projects in suburbia which is really fascinating. I would love to see more more of that work. <hes> tell me about when that sort of came into play where you still studying your m._f._a. Was the become up uh afterwards. How did this project come to mind right. After grad graduated in two thousand and three i've always was fascinated when i came into atlanta to go into the urban neighborhoods because i did a body of work call coming home and it was in the urban communities shooting the landscape in black and white so so when i got out of grad school i decided the point my camera to suburbia because at that time in the art world and everybody was talking about suburbia and when the all the images that you see of african americans is in urban america and i got tired of looking at those images already know what that is show me something else okay so i decided to because you have a large community and atlanta where you have a large african american community that lives in suburbia so that's how i came up with the concept of suburbia because i wanted to talk about the invisibility of african americans arkansas lit in suburbia even though we see that african americans are progressing and we see that on t._v. but we never stood still in really really look about their environment so that's how i came up with the suburbia and called it suburbia and that's when in two thousand thousands six it was called back then the center fe prize photography. I think it's called center now. In santa fe new mexico i want <hes> i became national national and i won <hes> this war i was so excited and when i got there i had to still have publishers curator's consultants consultants to look at the work and the majority of them when they looked at the work and i don't know why i was so stunned. They didn't get it because they they said that. I didn't have enough signifies in the work to show that these were black home and baffled me because we're in the twenty first century and it showed me how how a stereotype in one's consciousness is still there even though you showing them reality is like this look like my home why oh i didn't call it black suburbia. I have heard of suburbia. This is all of this stuff that was coming at me and me as an artist. I happen to be black and i'm calling it suburbia arabia. I've been projected on because they wanted to identify with blackness whatever the signifies that they wanted to see when you mean signifier the fires. What do you think they meant what did they. What were they expecting this. You're wanting to see him photographed well. I asked this publisher that looked at the work because he said he didn't see anything anna china and ice. He's cut he says i grew up in the air of martin luther king. He says you just don't have enough signifies as well. What is it that you wanna see and he looked at me so i met a job in sep fried chicken collard greens and watermelon quiet say anything so i never did get it. They say that don't look like my home. That was the whole point of this show universal commonality amongst all of us yeah. What are the people in the home that you have people that you knew or did you. How did you find this subject matter for that series. It was very hard because when it comes i'm still us. We're very protective about our image. So it was a friend of mine that lived in suburbia and at first it was like no no you can't do you know no no i said look. I'm not showing you so. They don't know who home spe- <hes> these these are gonna go home and clean up. I'm like no don't do do that so that's how it started and then a friend saw the images and then it all started coming together. They allowed me to come in and even though i didn't you might see bodies in is kind of subdued bodies and the work of of black bodies in the work and you really don't see their faces and what i wanted this a major award a lot of them says well. You could've photograph me you know photograph but that was the whole purpose of the work. The show the invisibility ability of the african americans and he has people move of in class. It becomes a much more difficult to get to gain access to long surprising people who who'll have nothing or virtually nothing comparison to even middle class community uh-huh it's amazing how people just opened up their homes and it's like welcomed. You can autograph whatever you want and songs you providing you know degree of respect and interaction you know but when it comes to people in the middle class or especially upper class nice man. It's really hard to get that access in said they're very protective very suspicious and they used to be in control and i think that's a big part of it. I think it's a a big reason why there's so much resistance because they are where they are because they've been able to have some control over the dynamics of their life and having of its aquifer come in d. documented where they don't have that power is threatening to avert a variety of different degrees. It's really kind of interesting that that the work explores lors that even though it's in this case it's focusing on african americans. It's still that that the whole idea of being protective and also so being wary about who gets to see inside. You know what i'm saying right because right after the when i won this award my mind is always going. I wanted to start photographing photographing when they go like african americans when they go to parties and all of this stuff i couldn't do it. They went to do it so i never could get access to do now. When do it wrap our trap music no problem but i have not been able to do that yet. What do you want to the voice that introduces the episode at the top of the show. Send us an audio clip that you can record on your phone tablet or computer simply say your name where you're from and this is the candid frame say at least twice and give us a few seconds of silence so that we can clean up the audio wants done e mail it to info at ganden frame dot com and make sure include your link to your website or instagram feet help the candid frame to continue bring you great conversations with some of the world's best photographers you can do this by supporting our patriae torreon effort by committing as little as five dollars or more a month when you do this you not only help us to meet the cost of production but provide us at the time and resources. We need to bring you conversations. You won't hear anywhere else. Sign up today by visiting patriot dot com forward slash the candid frame. Thank you so talk to me about in europe most recent book which is nineteen sixty now and tell us about how that project began because it's an amazing powerful body of work. That's it's been taking a lot of your time over the past several years so how did how did it all begin well actually as an artist as i'm always always thinking and i'm always looking at pop culture and that's what drives my work to be honest with you and right after suburbia where i started on a body of work <hes> call young americans didn't know i was going to name it that at the time but i was thinking about young people because that was m between the time when obama which was he wasn't a president yeah was thinking about running people always say i perceived it as being negative about the the the next generation which is the millenniums as like the only thing that they're really interested and is the technology branding and money and all of that. They have no interest in politics so that piqued my curiosity and i'm like well. I'm always thinking about myself when i was young and i sit. You know what there's a lot of things that i was interested when i was young but the older people would just is laughing would say no no no so i said i wanna do a portrait. A body of work of portraiture again and i wanna photograph young people in at the time the atmosphere with the politics i started looking at that with young people in it and i didn't know what i was going to do and how is going to take did these photographs without woke up one morning in my dreams that you're gonna take a pitcher them with the flag. That's how it all started and i said i will. Oh not tell them what to do with the flag. I'm going to ask them one question. What does it mean to be an american in the twenty first century so that body works started in two thousand and six and i think our photograph to young people in my only criteria was they had to be eighteen to twenty five. Why eighteen scene is when the time when you start your out of your parents home you know either you go into college or whatever you're doing and they're kind of independent from their parents to a certain extent and i wanted to know what their thoughts was and i asked them this. How do you see yourself with this. American flag and let's talk about america and that's august started and when did segue into the work that you were doing in terms of black lives matter movement and <hes> oh yeah because i kind of got off at start talking about that that ashley connected with black lives matter because in two thousand and thirteen before before then <hes> what young america's had show my first solo show at the high museum here in atlanta and then two or three years later i started weep pacing the young americans out in the communities and i love that because i feel that my were really connects with the masses of the people because when you think about museums museums and galleries there's only a certain group of people that elitist another groups that go to this to to museums is not the masses of the people. They're trying the change that now so when i started doing the wheat pace i actually i loved it and two thousand and thirteen kvant martin happen and i started thinking about young people again on life. Wow i says i was thinking about the young people in the civil rights rights movement so i went and start talking to them about the movement because of what happened the trayvon martin and police brutality and these different is the same thing back back in the sixties but it's just a different signifier so i started talking to the elders started photographing porteous vam i started weep deep pacing them on walls freedom writers and unknown civil rights leaders that we never heard of i learnt so much from them and when the shootings continue and continue i felt that i needed to go to the ground so i went from atlanta to ferguson to baltimore to washington to baton rouge and i as an artist as a woman and an as a black person i felt that i needed to start looking at our own stories because far too long we have been looking at us through the eyes of the colonizer and that's how we have learned of ourselves so i'm kinda claiming are narrative not reclaiming it because we didn't know it not necessarily so climbing are narratives intas. It's such a big issue to address especially visually clear idea about how you wanted to tackle it or did reveal itself as you produced work revealed itself when it stopped in two thousand and sixteen because from two thousand and thirteen eighteen to two thousand and sixteen i was so driven. I didn't really understand how emotional i was. I was lecturing exhibiting and shooting on the ground on planes off planes from two thousand. I should really start in two thousand fourteen to sixteen eighteen and when it stopped when a lot of the protests and wasn't gone on that's when it started coming together to me. I didn't realize that i i was producing all of this work like this. I was shooting portraiture studio of the elders portraiture of the young people that were in the movement now now and protests images and shooting video all at the same time so when i got approached by chronicle books to do book and i had together all this stuff together then i was like wow i i couldn't believe that i did this work and i started really start conceptually looking at the work and what i was doing because when i was out on the ground i purposely shot in black and white. I purposely purposely shop. Ninety percent of the work would a portrait lands okay and i shot square because i the workers comp nineteen sixteen sixteen now and i'm playing on what the young people in the sixties were doing when it came to human rights like it's the same same thing that the young people are experiencing in a different signify the same thing that's why it's called hashtag nineteen sixty now one of your more powerful for pictures of the mothers of the movement which is modeled after famous photograph made by richard avedon civil rights workers in atlanta. Tell us about that the image because it is a powerful image but i know it also was a very difficult one to pull off yeah last year <hes> i was approach coach along with nine other artists to do murals in atlanta for the upcoming up in february of this year and what it was it was part of the n._f._l. Because a land to they had what is it. What do you call that. I'm not real good with sports. Did they have the super bowl in atlanta in jan. Was it in january or february but anyway it was the first i part of <hes> this quarter but i was approaching last year about this and i did not realize because the organization didn't say it was part of the n._f._l. Now they just asked which you like to maryland. I love doing murals. I love museums galleries but i love murals okay so i agree to do it and i did. I did not realize until they asked me to come to the press conference that it was part of the host committee of the n._f._l. The mayor in the art organization where they partnered together and the theme was social justice and i feel a certain kind of way about it because i've been shooting black lives matter. I was very upset when they flip the narrative when it came to colon cabinet and i really didn't want to have no part of the n._f._l. N._f._l. but what happened was my sister and other people talk to me and they sit sheila. You're the perfect person to do this because we know that you're going to do a protest within that so i had to think about it and i said okay. I'll do it but at the time. I didn't know what i was gonna do but i felt that i needed to take another level. I don't need to show protests images so i i guess i was on the internet and i can't remember if i was has been looking at <hes> julian bond an iconic civil rights leader in atlanta georgia that was the leader of snick in atlanta that student nonviolent nonviolent coordinating committee but actually i saw his image but one of the photographers that i really looked at a a lot when i was in grad school was rich in aberdeen an iconic photographer in the twenty first century and i love his portraiture because does he shot individuals up against a white background so he took them out of their environment and you can really look at that person. I was so amazed with his work. So when i saw this image of julian bond that was taken in one thousand nine hundred sixty three by richard avidan n vine in city in atlanta where you had some of the civil rights leader living at that time like martin luther king julian bond and their children and when i saw that image it was amazing richard avedon came down photographed and vine city in one thousand nine hundred sixty three julian bon on holding his daughter phyllis she was nine months you so and vine city with the snick students behind him. I thought that was a very powerful awful image empha- julian bond to hold his daughter. I thought about the mothers and i said i'm gonna bring the mothers here. I'm going to recreate that that same image in vine city with the mothers and totality doesn't look exactly alike that but the concept came from there eh and the three women that were from outta town is gwendolyn car the <hes>. I can't breath he. I can't even think of his name right now. I can't believe he is the one smother the came down. In the tamir. Rice mother came down the young boy that got shot up playing with a toy gun in ohio and then oscar grant's mother from oakland which happened in two thousand and nine they just named a street name after us the asca grant after him and they have a big mirror in oakland california so oh i brought those three women down along with mothers who <hes> whose children have fallen to police brutality here and i also included dr rosalyn pope who went to spelman college in nineteen sixty stay in she authored appeal of human rights and she was part of the atlanta a student movement and what i really wanted to kinda show in this work was about self care and talk about trauma and how these mothers have moved on so i was shown a photograph back then of julian bond taken by richard avedon and then mike image but i had the hardest time to get that image up from blacks and whites in blew me away because this is the home home of the civil rights movement. I had to in order for me to get the building. A collective mind from florida was able to to get the building for me. I couldn't get anybody to get me to get a building. They said it was it was too political. When you speak the truth people think you're radical article you you're too political. I'm just picking the two. I'm trying to move forward. How can we progress okay. I had to hire installers dollars. Even though i was the artist i became the project man. I hired installers. I was going off on everybody. The last has two weeks. I was a warrior and is amazing. I got it up and is off a one ninety trinity street and i have a guerrilla a street curator that cure rates my work out in the streets and we went out looking and she said she would be good if we put it right around the corner under from the police station courthouse and city council innocent the mess in the middle of all of that this all of this work you just mentioned the word trauma so all of this work is really rooted deeply in an incredible amount of pain of loss and in the case of the mothers of sort not reinventing themselves after the loss of their children but for you your mother so i'm sure that being in the midst of that because as you said you were traveling all over the country in in visiting situations where the feelings and the loss was just really ripe and so ah i know to some degree you probably used the photography as the means of being able to sort of go through it emotionally and be able to sit up not get overwhelmed by it but i'd like you to sort of speak about the self care that you needed to do just to make sure that you didn't hit a wall and burn out prematurely yeah in two thousand and sixteen when everything kind of stopped with a lot of you know in between two thousand and thirteen thousand sixty it was constantly everybody it was out in the streets and when that kind of subside a little bit i myself said oh my god i am emotionally emotional and i need self care will how're you gonna deal with the self care okay and i needed to take a break from it but but what happens with me and i think through my photography deaths how i kinda deal with it and with the mothers because what i learnt so much which with the mothers and i wasn't even thinking about this there is trauma with the mothers with with other mothers because some of the mothers upset set with the other mothers because some of them are getting more attention than some of the other ones and they will really go off on about like what makes you some important than mine in that make me undestand from when our ancestors were brought over here to the civil rights movement to the black power movement to i look at hip hop was the voice of sand and that was a movement up until now. Can you understand understand all that trauma as the race of people continually have to deal with and how we internalize it. We don't talk about mental illness on this in our communities because a lot of that has something to do with it too. We've been we have. We've born into of movement mint. Whether we're conscious of it or not whether we want to do what not and i just think that are is like is it w d boyce and not hammer who was was the poet or something we wear the two phase we just we're resilient people but we don't really know how to do self care with us so on learning right now to be able to do that and what helped me out. A lot is being around the mothers because even though i'm a photographer for and i think in journalism is like you don't need to be a participant at cry. We were crying. We laughed and it felt so good and this wasn't in about me as an artist or photographer is bigger than me. I'm just being moved by the spirit. It seems to be one of the reasons why you like getting your work. Outside of the galleries you talked about the wheat pasting in about about the murals is that you get you provide an opportunity for the very people that you photographed graf to see themselves because oftentimes when those communities are photographed. They never really get to see the work. Even age of digital they may see the back of the camera but they rarely get to see the book or go to the galleries to see <hes> see the work exhibited talk to me about that. Why is it so important for you. Why do you want to make sure that your work gets get seen by the very people that you're using as as the material for your for your if i could say this. This is very painful for our community really look back and look at this. We don't really want to deal with it and i think that eh is v. It's like the movie. How do they see us. It was even though i've been on the ground. I've seen a lot of stuff. It was difficult for me to watch this and i said sheila you have to watch it as very painful and i think once we as a community andy can face this and deal with it. Maybe we could move forward with it and maybe the stories that have been told by us. Versus assists the other than telling stories for decades. Maybe we can have a better understanding even though we know about the subject matter attic for example able d._n._a. Right she did an excellent job of telling that story. She not not only make you see it. She makes you feel it and with my imagery i want to not just dec- i want you to fill it and maybe then we can move forward with it. Okay as difficult as it is. When my last question that i ask each guest is i asked them to recommend another photographer for listeners to discover and explore and it can be anyone someone you've long admired or someone recently discovered words who won photographer being photographer think about that. I'm thinking about some younger photographers gophers. You know i like roy my mike mccoy. I really wanna think about women. Does it have to be a photographer ghafur. Could it be filmmaker like duva nee. I mean even those she's out there. Everybody knows her. She speaks to me through to her moving images. She makes me feel i mean this what she did is very powerful is very hurtful but is very powerful and it showed me how even though the title of it is how they see us for me is really about. How do we see us and that's what i think about when i see her work so i really commend her for what she has done and what it has done. Done is the young people through their technology through twitter and instagram. They shut and a lotta people down that had something to do do with to do with the prosecutor. She's an along or at columbia now and so that's the power that i think that ah moving forward with the next generation it gives them the power like i could go out and tell these stories okay and that's what she has stat well. Thank you for that and thank you for your time and it was a real joy to consensus talk with you again. Thank you for having me. It was my pleasure <music>. Thanks to sheila for sharing your time and story with us. You can find out more about her under work by visiting sheila pre bright dot com and at the end of the month i'm going to be in vancouver canada teaching a weekend workshop with fellow long street photographer olaf sta check out the video where we discussed the workshop and sign up soon as there are few spots available find out more by visiting the website and and visual experience dot com the here and see me talk about my personal photographic process visit the youtube channel where offer comments comments on photography submitted by listeners who contribute to the candidate frame flicker pull check out the t._c._i. Flippable and our youtube gentle by clicking on the lincoln the shot no not and the website by most reason book making photographs developing a personal visual workflow is now available purchase it today and receive forty percent off the list bryce when you order it from the rocky website use the promo code parrella forty at checkout to take advantage of the discount and received three copies of my previously sleep published e books by signing up for the candidate frame mailing list where thoughts about life photography and keep you updated on events. If you enjoy the show it helped to spread the word by writing a review wherever you find and listen to podcasts and if you ride review on a blog post let me know and send me a link because i would really love to thank you you want hair. Thanks to nine boys from the u._k. For their five star review you can also support this show by making monthly contribution through patriot on or you can make a one one time contribution via paypal. You'll find the links were both in the show notes and the website and if you wanna easily access every episode of the candidate frame download the kendra frame <music> app is available for both apple and android and it's free and if you scroll down on the app you'll find a free excerpt of my book that you can download. We also also have an alexa app so if you have one of those smart devices download the skill and listen to the show that way the cannon frames audio engineer is martin taylor where you can find at the other martin taylor dot com the show senior producers in the parker and our music is from kevin mccloud who's royalty free music and we found adding compact dot com and this is a body and x. and this is the candidate for him <hes> <music>.

atlanta houston sheila burger king julian bond publisher new york scarface brokaw texas director richard avedon sheila butter georgia ashley los angeles sheila pre
Ep. 48 : The World of Visual Engineering with Steve Giralt

The Indy Mogul Podcast

1:01:56 hr | 10 months ago

Ep. 48 : The World of Visual Engineering with Steve Giralt

"Andy filmmakers. My name is ted and welcome to the people. Go podcast episode. Forty eight now on this episode. We have a guy named steve jerome. Who has an incredible artist and visual engineer. Which don't know what that means. We're gonna get into that second so if you've seen commercials from brands such as jack daniels coke hershey's dunkin donuts. Chances are they're good that you've actually seen his work. Now we often hear a lot about a cinematographer and how it's their job to bridge. The gap between art and technology at st is back onto the stuff attack for and his passion from scenery. Actually makes him in my opinion. The perfect example. If any of you are in the same boat than you're going to learn a little bit about programming botox now. Both these things can actually possibly make you more marketable as a filmmaker. And i'll sell people on your vision likewise if you want to see this inaction we actually have a video of steve uneasy youtube channel breaking down most iconic product shots. So make sure you check that out after this episode but everybody episode forty eight but guest on this so the thing that i want to kick off with is visual engineer and i know. Initially you didn't start in film and television photography but just regular photography either sogefi at a technical institute so what was the reasoning behind Getting into technical institute in the beginning and you always know that this was something you want to do. Wow you just dove right in here. We go just go in the deep end. Yeah so. I picked up the young age. I was probably fifteen or something like that. You know just and this is. I'm not gonna date myself exactly but this is film cameras with manual like you know like fm to nikon. And that's why. I fell in love with atari and just taking pictures of ducks upon. Whatever you name it. I did all the boring stuff and then you know now. I'm where i'm at but basically after high school. She got a job working fulltime at a senior portrait studio doing underclassmen photos and senior. Portrait's sports and problems and like you name it like i was just like out there taking pictures of all that and then i got into like shooting models portfolios. And i'm like oh oh so. I'm from miami florida originally. So it's like the land of like sexy girls and like whatever and i was like. Oh that's what you do. That's shoot your. i'm from miami. You shoot like sexy people not for unless you're filming some bikini lady or something exactly. Let's go to the bikini on it and here we got And then after a little bit of doing that after high school. I didn't really know what i wanted to do. Honestly i was just like partying is outrage and like being teenager whatever and then i finally started being like. I really like this. This is what. I really wanna do like photography in some way. I didn't know i wanted to. I would never have been able to know. I would end up where i'm at right now but Then you know looked into it. And i was like okay. Rochester institute of technology. Like a friend of mine had told me about it. And they're like oh. They have like a really great like advertising. Photography like technical program and i grew up in a family of engineers. I had kind of a understanding for technical stuff. Came easy to me. So i i applied and got in like oh cool. I guess i can go here. My parents worked it out financially. And you know some debt but not so bad but I went to rit. I transferred in. Because i was going to school like night school Part time was working fulltime Always going So transferred. I was only there for two years for like my junior and senior basically i graduated and like that was like the biggest eye-opening experience for me away. I don't have to shoot weddings and like sexy girls. I could shoot way more things in college. The college experience other things than other things he does was not like. I had no access to this information. Like miami's a very like i'm cuban. My family's like oh photographer you she weddings. I didn't know that like advertising still life. And whatever existed until i got all righty and i was like oh the studio. This is really cool. Like i understand this. Like i could create something out of nothing and i kind of rolled with that for a while then i was like oh i don't know and then i kind of change to shooting people a little bit again and then like i don't know so eventually i graduated from our. At and i'm going to be a travel to tougher. because i'd like gone on a trip to cuba and shot pay people and it was really fun and interesting like using hospitalized like film cameras like awesome and like i have two lines as i have a wide along. What's it like. There was no nothing else and it was super fun. I mean once again. Just exploring photography on trying to understand it just taking images and so based after a after. At i want to be a traffic tarver muneer city. I started dropping off my portfolio. Which was like my college portfolio. That had like trips to like cuba and i went to mexico. Then i like shot around upstate. New york and rochester student like student photographer at its finest like photography guess But then likes. I moved here with the plan of like assisting other photographers and getting to know like the industry and how it all works in and like i'm like i wanna make you know from from a early age. I was at very entrepreneurial. And i'm like i want to make money at this. I don't want to dislike. Do this only for fun So i moved here assisting photographers like two months. Later like the one magazine had dropped off. My portfolio calls me the like. We have a job for you shooting like food and portrait at a restaurant in new york city. It was like three hundred dollars for like everything like a random place that he walked by. And you dropped off your portfolio at this. Is it up. I did research magazines called severe magazine. They're still around today and i was like. Oh they travel and food says like. Here's my book and at that point i'd never taught food before so it's kind of interesting and they're like food i'm like sure. Of course you know like one hundred percent until you make it you gotta go all in like if anybody gives you a chance. take it. you think you're going to fail like hardly but Shooting for them pretty regularly. Why was assisting other photographers and kind of during that whole thing Just trying to make ends meet and like my random go like. Yeah you're out. Let's go and Worked out. I mean some months i was like a little late other rant and you had to make it work and The struggle made me work harder. I think that's for two people that are too comfortable. I think get uncomfortable. Like i think the more you have to make it work. The more you're going to make it work is what i tell people So either way that. Let's fast forward a little bit. Because it's a long story but i moved like at. Rit had access to some of the first digital cameras that were really being used. So when i moved to new york. I knew how they worked in a lot of these still photographers like that. Like you know still photography they're like oh my clients want me to chew digital. I don't know how to do that. And i was like i know how to do that. So i kind of transitioned after about a year in new york working as what's called a digital tech where i would kind of go on set with computer. This is like g four mirror. Drive doors like max here and like run the camera that had to be like tethered through a cable to the computer like to work otherwise it couldn't even use it goes like it was just a brick is like oh this doesn't do anything And i would run These phase one digital backs very early ones and Kodak ucs probiotics for the two main back over sixteen megapixel. This is like groundbreaking. And yeah. I got really lucky. And i met up with some amazing companies that what rent their equipment to people. And i would go on set to run the equipment because people didn't know how to do this and i was the kind of guy that could like open up the g. four and like pull the rim out if it wasn't working rated troubleshoot because the technology was a little shaky back then. There was no like sony a seven. You know you're like the tech savvy whiz kid that set like you digital things not working on running and it was really cool because like i got to work with some really high end like steven mozelle and like like i was actually the only detect that i know of that ever got to show actually got the show richard abbott on how digital works like he had never used digital in his life and he knew the company that i would freelance for and i was their best tech. And they're like. Hey steve you wanna go. Showed richard avedon digital work. Some like yeah. He was awesome. You know. I think he's like dick. How you doing you know. He was amazing. Dude that's so passionate about image making it capturing the essence of people and stuff and so we did one day. I showed him how there's a work we did. Another day where he was shooting self portrait of himself for some ad for hp or something and it was super fun and once i got to work and see like in fashion and beauty in in product and kind of work with a bunch of different people. And that's honestly like school was great. I learned so much just like hard knocks working in and getting better getting paid to work for other people But then once again. I told you i started shooting jobs for magazines and so this was all kind of running like at the same time. I was assisting digital tech. I was doing some retouching for people to like photoshop. Five or whatever. It was that and You know doing all this stuff. It just always hustling hustling hustling. And i started shooting more and more food for this these magazines that are like. Oh like you've do food. And eventually i became a photographer is gonna like the where the wind blew me a little bit And then after like three years think it's about three years as like okay. I want to get my own little studio space in a tiny studio apartment. That was like that big So i got like a shared studio that had like mice that were everywhere like whatever but you know it worked. It was great. And it was in manhattan which was awesome and i started shooting some more product based up in their like a and do this and out of the blue off. Victoria's secret which is like okay. Ooh and they're like oh we already know how to digital. We heard you have a studio and you could chew products. I'm like yes. Yes sure at Food at a really done much stuff So they're like tennis portfolio. And i'm like i don't have awkward roleo. This is the second time to your make over and over and over and over repeat my story will be bigger. Make it so. This is like a friday and like they want the portfolio monday. I'm like okay great. I'll do something so like that night. I called up my girlfriend's on kinnear sexy issues like your craziest coolest looking stuff. Then i had a studio at of cameras has like i took him. I shot folio printed out on my absent printer. Put in the portfolio and drop it off monday and suddenly i had like you know twenty shots of shoes and handbags and stuff and they hide me. They're like okay. Great we have this catalogue shoot. That's just shooting shoes for. Victoria's secret you know then. Literally i worked for them for ten years like is crazy. This is like like all relationship. Like i still talk to them now. That don't really. I shot some video for them now but generally they're in a whole different world now But then again it to catalog still photography and i did a lot of that and started shooting for other catalogues Fence company donna murphy. And they were crazy like catalogue was amazing that like they would book six months out. They're like oh yeah. We're gonna shoot three weeks on october british three weeks in march because they know in their catalogs come out and they're like you're the guy that did it so there go they booked me out like wayne event. Yeah wait for people that don't know what catalog photography is cadillac photography from regular taxi. That male thing as a mail in your mailbox like pictures with prices and you could buy twenty lutely for that and then The same shots will go on their websites to so that you could like go and ecommerce you know type of stuff so yeah. The catalog was like a step up from e commerce because it was like oh printed and i had to look at whatever but people that don't have I think he's one of the things that you've been able to do a lot of times as get work in new fields. Where maybe you haven't had a lot of experience for people that don't have part folios. How do you recommend to start getting work or start being able to reach to make a portfolio. Now it doesn't have to be printed out. Does that'd be fancy video. It could just be a real but it's like you gotta start collecting whatever you do you know and start like it takes time you start making like putting together who you are as a imagemaker too because like i didn't get that for so long like what you mean like i take pictures like hire me like unlike now. It's so clear like i got hired for barry very specific reasons in the way that i shoot things and my style and all this stuff But that just takes time. People in college are not going to have that like if you if you're that focus in college. I'm like try something different because like you already. They're like here. We go by basically being focused. You're talking about having enough things that give a specific reason for people that want to hire you. See more of that with what they want as opposed to. Oh i can expose things like in things. I can make it. You know these simplify the most basic way. Like imagine somebody that shoots weddings like you need to have shots on weddings to get a job shooting weddings and like my showing previous weddings. You've done that tells them how their pictures come out slow. It sounds like there are times the people sire portfolio and they were like oh but like we also want you to shoot food. But it wasn't in there you know. What do you think that those people are seeing mean there was like zemun. My mytravel work. There is like i would still lives of like found things and i think that's what they were reacting to is like. Oh it's really pretty what he shot like like this like stat. The statue in like a cemetery of day of the dead mexico like they're like he wasn't shooting the whole cemetery landscape. He wasn't shooting the people he was like. He decided to shoot this thing. And that's part of what betcha. How i learn how i see the world and how i use it in my image making his like everybody has a way that they see the world. And that's really all we're doing here is sharing the way that we see things or now i kind of adapted that to like creating crazy things he and my head instead of the way you see things the way you imagine things are see them but just in my head honestly honestly you have probably the most innovative styles of you know whether it's filmmakers photography's commercial make. I don't know what to call it. But i want to ask you know. Is that so. It sounds like you didn't know that that's what you wanted to do when you were in college at all nope this one day at a time where the wind blew me and take it to make it and like this. I mean i had an like. I'm not gonna lie. I got an insane drive. Like i would assist for a photographer from nine. Am to six pm. Then i would go home and work like i gave myself like office hours from like seventy midnight. Like ramdas working on my own stuff. Whether it's researching magazines are looking at other imagery or planning shoots. I wanted to do or an idea that like day after day after day after day after day. And i think that's one thing that people lacks a lot of times is that that consistency of getting there and disbelieving. Long enough that they they could get there. I wrote an article years ago for petty pixel that was like about like getting jobs as like darfur like commercial divers like like being a farmer in a way like you plant seeds and then you've got to water them day after day after day after day after day after day. Some of them might work out. Some of them might bear fruit someday. But you gotta keep if you stop watering them. Then they're going to die. You gotta start all over again. So it is watering the developed. This is like this is a reference in relationships that you make with people that you're trying to get work with and you know and also the work that you're like projects that you're working on two and getting it out there and all the things that you need to get done to try to get work so once again. If he stopped doing the things you get distracted or you give up like you than six months from now. You have to start over again. So that's kind of the whole idea. There is that you just. It's not just being passionate but it's be like consistently passionate persistence and passionate. You know that's the only way that you persevere. It's like you just gotta keep going And yeah with that like one. We got into the pataki and then like. How do i get from photography to where i'm at today was kinda like once again. My eagerness to learn and to try new things honestly. I get bored too easily. So it's kind of getting border so photography 'cause like oh i started doing ads for like budweiser another people. And i'm like this is great. I was. It was exciting. But i was like i need more casual. You know whatever whatever. yeah I founded like i needed to challenge myself more and also when your hobby becomes your job. I need a new hobbies. At so i started taking all these courses in like Why took actually cores that are. Shot like sixteen millimeter film Because once again. I never shot video. Or whatever before says i i wanted to learn the basics of how this started and then i could learn from there. I didn't finish the class. I like guy like seventy percent of the way through the teachers. Like why are you still coming back here like you. Because batarfi knowledge. I had like like a thousand legs up on everybody else in the class. What's lighting stop. You know like But glad i did it. You know just imagine. But but from that and i start taking other courses i found these places the spice brooklyn. That was awesome. It's now closed down. Unfortunately but they did like i. Did you know tig. Welding and mig welding in electronic circuits and plastics. And i'm sure you take all these classes to write off woodworking. And i started like making started making furniture because like i have this need to like learn things you things with my hands and create. This is like an innate part of who i am as being no no no normal person. Natural at this point expanding. Hey gonna be really fun. He could use cool stuff with welding. Where did this. This is a natural interest since are completely natural interest by very unnatural person. But then basically with that. I started building furniture and whatever but i was like wait. How do i bring tired of photography says like how do i bring this passion with my existing passion into doing something cool so basically how do i bring my heart side and the business together with engineering and all this kind of crazy stuff. I'm doing and that's literally were vigil. Engineering was born whereas just like. Oh wait i could use this stuff to make cool imagery and like boom there. We go so. I was like okay. How how do i do this. I need a portfolio. As we're talking about like i can't. I'm like what is that. Nobody knows like it was like a then exists. Basically so as like okay like it's funny like my brain like i don't know if you have ever had this where you're just like you have so many ideas you just like writing them down like you just like on a flow and you're just like oh my god. This is all amazing that maybe two days later. It's not is amazing but you know. Some of the ideas were good. Well i did. I did that. I came up with like five years videos. That use vigil engineering. And i actually ended up making about four of them over years of time like when was the chew spot that i did and some other stuff but either way i saw this thing in my head and i was like how do i do it personally. Like five ideas and then like over the course of the next five years. They slowly came up and remain. I was able to research thing. Be kind of is like avatar for james cameron but it technology didn't exist you know The the first one. I was like okay. I had done this as i said about burgers campaign for budweiser that was like a this cool beautifully styled burgers by this jamie game. He was a food stylist next to a beer. And i was just like it was all about like we all like four or five different burgers or sandwiches or like pulled pork. But i'd like a still photo distant to justice. I was just like sitting there like you can see the different layers and you can't really understand it and and so i was like. Oh what if. I did a video that like made this better. And that's where the burger drive came from which was like by. I like proof of concept of like vigil engineering. And what i mean by that. So that was a completely self funded self produced like everything i mean. Luckily i was already working as a photographer. as darfur. trump was a personal project was a personal on my own. I never use the robot before. I never the phantom before. Like you name it like it here we go. That looks sure like oh. This is clearly like the result of many many years of doing this. What reconciling with my mind. Being blonde right now first thing is you know how did the project come about and i guess because it looks. It is so advanced a level already. I mean how does that jump get made. A budget thing isn't a technique pre. Yes so was also a lot of luck to honestly. i'm not. I'm not gonna lie about that so i started doing research because i was like. Okay well layers of a thing. And i'd like i tried to explain to friends of mine too. 'cause i have like a creative friends that we share ideas and whatever and i was like. It's like you're like imagine. It's like a huge burger with all the layers apart. And you're like parachuting by the you know like like with a gopro on your head. And then they land magically and whatever and they're like oh i think i got it you know and then like that was my idea and then I was like okay. How do i do this. Like i'd never shot this video before. So there's a lot of like you know. Youtube ewing research and i found out about cinema. Robots and i was like. Oh okay. that's the only way to move the camera fast enough because otherwise as like. Oh maybe some sort of linear straight mover or whatever. But as i go this cinema robot like there's i found out there's only to new york city at the time and i call both of those people up i was like. Hey what's up cinema robot. I want one of those two thing. Can we talk then. Both of them were like sure. Let's talk which is kind of amazing One guy like we went to lunch and he told me about how difficult it is to get into video. And like you don't wanna do that. You could make more money photography like blah like okay. Great thanks and then the other person was really interesting that they were a it was like a small company of like three or four people and all they did was shoot. Stock footage That's all they did and they had the robot like they bought it from somebody else that used it for something else in some art project. And what are they ended up this robot which are like one hundred thousand dollar robot second guessing mark roberts neutral bolt. Is that what it is. It was called a camera robot which now robert spot them they own them to the same robot arm technically speaking just different software so i call them these guys up and they're like okay. Come over there like super japanese literally. The owner of this place. Speak english translator to talk to me. I think mike on mark. Roberts comes closer so exactly so i was like look. This is my crazy idea. I like tele. What i wanted to do as i can write your robot from you. And what would that cost you know. And they had a studio in like in queens along the city as i. Just that's do the whole thing here. Their robot was bolted to the ground. So i was like okay. I don't want to move this thing. Whatever but they didn't have kitchen says bring like a kitchen in temporarily like move stuff from my studio to their. You know either way like this whole idea this crazy idea and i like all right. Let me know. And they like a week later. We're like so we have the robot but we don't know what to do with it so much we don't have really good ideas like your idea seems really cool. They're like how about you. Shoot it here for free and we just own stock rights to the video. Not done deal. I don't need to sell stock here. We go yeah yeah. that's amazing. I got really lucky. But what's going. I also took the chance of reaching out to everybody at just being like. Hey let's put it out there and see if the what what they say totally earned it so so. I started finishing developing the device itself and like like patrick and whatever learned art. We know coding and all this stuff took like a month from that point. Actually shoot the thing. As i said there casual casual by that. What are you talking about so so there is a robot that moves the camera. Right and i'm sure you'll play the clip or whatever And so that was one part of the equation. The other part of the equation was. How do i make the layers of the burger. All apart and fall together perfectly. So for that i needed to make a device just for that purpose. So that's what i did. I built this like Little like a rc. Car cervo motors With which. I decided to put a scalpel blades on them. So those were mounted to the like metal frame. I welded and that there's a lot of layers and a personal deep into this right now. I built a thing that was really complicated and it was run by this little microcomputer ardo. That's like thirty dollar little thing. They get the like write code for whatever exactly same. Same ideas resume. Yup and so that ran that whole rig. I had to learn how you run serve. I had to learn a lot. There's a lot a lot of learning to get to that end result. And what's gonna. I said it was like a month or two to get this figured. This is just like no between jobs. As you know the jobs i was doing stopped arbor and then we shot it and as like okay. Now we're gonna figure post production. I'd never done video production before. And i didn't have a bunch for either so i like started playing with premiere pro and kinda learn like premier. I don't know what version that it was back then but But i had shot it in a really easy way. It was a very simple composite. Wasn't like crazy rotor. scoping or anything. It was just a masking like literally. The whole thing was designed by add like basically two or three shots total that were timed perfectly to like magically an easily a dummy that just premier could put together But they still took me another month to figure that out and then I learned a lot and i found a color correcting person. That was a friend of a friend. That color corrected for me. And then i then. I was like all right this things done. It's like a fifteen second shot or whatever. There's a lot of preventing seconds. And i was like this is really cool. I really like this. Let me do a behind the scenes to show people like my process. Because i just went through all this crazy stuff and that's what i did so i i shot myself doing voiceover. Whatever in the kind of down part piece by piece how. I did the whole thing and put it out there and amazingly enough. It got on ready to got everywhere. Blew up like the beach behind the scenes that nobody could actually give three about the final burgers things itself. They're like oh that's probably. Cgi that was the whole that. That still is part of why people like talk. A lot about my work is like this like why why. Why isn't a tgi or not or whatever it's better this way or the other way and i'm disadvantage practical effects. Shooting things for real. So that's what i do. But yeah so i mean that kind of kicked off like okay wait. Proof of concept like vigil engineering's thing And i guess. I should keep going because like sometimes if i put it out there it would have been like nothing like. I don't know if i would have kept going down that road. I probably would've that you like is this of interest to anyone and it was just like a resounding yes like. Yes we want more of this. This awesome please continue exactly and but did you know was like okay. Started pushing forward in that direction and it was great. I mean they worked out. I was really excited. But i was like okay. Wait now. I need to get hired to do this because once again. This was like a test that had done. I mean once again. I still spend a bunch of money on it in the phantom in all that was free which was like still to this day. I'm like i really feel bad for them. Because like their stock value of it was almost nothing in the fact that it was everywhere viral in the by the scene so like everybody knew this clip already. You know like. I feel so bad to this day like like i still went and checked of it. But that's possible But yeah so then. The next challenge for me. It was like okay. How do i bring this into the work i do. You know how get paid to do this. So i had been shooting like once again more catalog shooting catalog for godiva and like whatever and it wasn't in this godiva alone was probably like a four hundred thousand dollars a year client which you know. That's that's some good money. Yeah it was. Great and then overnight diver went away basically like new chief. Marketing officer came in and got rid of all the creative and the whole creative department that hired me and then a new creative department came in. And what something that happens in this all the time is it wasn't that i was doing bad work. It's just the associate me with the old regime and they're like oh we're not going to hire him anymore so just like that was like gone. You know so. But i was like already had gone through the burger. Drop it just come out. And i was like all right. Let's just let's keep moving forward. And let's let's do this and i already had a studio manhattan like whatever like a nicer studio then. The mouse infested one. So i'm talking to my wife. Because i was like look like money's gonna stop coming in and i still got a cheat more stuff for my portfolio when i got a rent in the phantom do other things with it and rent the red and i didn't own any of this yet you know. So it's all rentals and we're like let's go. We're doubling down. We went all in We got to the point where i was like literally meeting with like a real estate broker about selling my apartment because like we didn't know where we're gonna find money to keep going and and like so it was kinda crazy like how from like two thousand twenty sixteen. I think that was yeah like in the next year like basically went from being the a really good year to the worst year my career to the next year being the best year. Well it was just happened with basically all of your photography clients and they went all just they. Because because i was doing video now so it's like like some of the photography clients. Okay great. we'll hire you to do some video stuff. A lot of them are like. Oh he's not trying to dr anymore and it was like. It was kind of a transitional. I was still doing photography but it was just like this transitional space between going still photographer a visual engineering. You know hard though. Yeah yeah and the thing is if i went after trying to get another like warren catalog client. I wouldn't have had the time to do visual engineering. So that's the thing. I could use either like either. Do the old thing or do this new thing. I didn't have time to really do both such so is also the walls. We taking our gamble. Luckily it really worked out. And what's have as i said at the beginning if you're comfortable you're going to work that much harder in that much smarter because you have to make it work. You know the family advocate. I had a fulltime employees at a studio like like had to make it work So then the next big jump up in this whole thing was i had been doing work with one of the guys from godiva that went to her. She's and because it wasn't they got rid of everybody so he he used to be good twenty years on the then got laid off and then you went to her. She is in a few months after that. He's like hey. I had this project roebling a new store in times square and still photography seem so boring in times square like it has to be moving. It has to be awesome. He's like we're gonna have this likes moore's car inside of the hershey store where you get this amazing more like he's like. Do you think you could videos for this. All the display screens inside the store and everything with her she is and like was. Moore's as chur jose you. Are you telling me the birger up was your first ever video that you ever made the verge of peaky s second third dot. Exactly no no no no. There's a lot of really bad stuff in the middle music video with like a kennedy as alarm like before this like after that film class and i did some of that stuff and then like drops like pretty much the first real like real camera video at done like i'd like done some food playing around stuff like by friends read for like a day or two but like that was the first like real thing and then the hershey's one was like the first paid visual engineering's like the ipad visual engineering. Basically you know sound so and and the crazy thing about it was like he's just like i love your burger drop. S'mores steve go. Tell me what you wanna do. It was like there was no agency. There's no creatives like nothing. It was like how do you envision with what you do doing. S'mores no idea how to hire you to. Because they were like well. Nobody else can do this kind of thing what they wanted. They didn't know what they wanted. They wanted something. Cool with morris is what came down to the whole concept came from me like as far as the layers in this whole thing and whatever Obviously inspired somewhat by the burger. Drop it in a very different way that we executed that one But he's like but this is the budget and i need three other spots also like with this budget because i like they had all sorts of other offerings inside the store and like cookies and brownies. And that stuff. So as i look will will will do something. Amazing for s'mores and something still pretty cool for the other And he's great so we did it. You know And funny enough in that same point in time was like okay like i was getting some more little video jobs like dislike. Oh like a how to thing from overhead or whatever like really boring simple food stuff because of my food expertise from darcy But i was at this point. I had just recently with this guy. Matt huber who works for me fulltime. Now who is my head rigger Now rigor basically does all by special effects stuff and executes it for me. Basically because i'm more create on the creative side storytelling side now in running the business and all that stuff than i am on actually upset for next week might be doing solo again because of everything going on So i'm glad i know how to do it but now i have people to do it. So matt is awesome. He's a still photographer. Turned dp video guys special effects person He had been in brooklyn. He moved to la. He moved back to brooklyn just like right around that same time and he had like we had like romancing on instagram. But i love your rigs man up your rigs. Ow probably weren't a lot of people in this world that we're doing exactly what you don instagram especially easily defined. You know like people have been doing this a version of this type of work for longtime just totally top secret like little share. Their trip takes like they don't like most of them didn't even have websites like is almost like it's almost like something. They stop motion to write a lot of the. He's not motion to. Yeah so i was like. hey matt. There's this job and i could really use somebody. That knows motion control really well which he did at the time He knew a way more than i did. Use the robot. But he'd actually built his own like motors and drives and like literally built the whole thing from the ground up So the first time we collaborate it was on the hershey's more shoot where i came up with the idea for this much and all the other stuff so that was totally a handbuilt. Rake there was no fancy robot. They're like that was literally all built by mad. There was like fourteen different axes or something because like all the different pieces and then the camera itself was on his own custom. Mover focused motor and like the pan. Tilton all this stuff like you built the whole thing. And he runs on dragon frame which is basically. Yeah but it does real time. Also controls motors. So he's really good at dragon frame. So that was one of his also like non stop motion like reagan. So is it going get you know. Everyone is basically doing this for the first time for this project in some ways. Yeah i mean we did a lot of other stuff you know but we've never done this and i think that's a common thread in almost all the work still create like every shoot. Were pushing the limits of what we've done before like or else snooze fast let me go back to sleep So we every shit we work is almost the same feeling like is this going to work. I think so like we think it's gonna work. We're pretty smart people. We've done a lot of work But this is still kind of common thread in the work that we do now Be the way the s'mores happens. I share that a little bit like like her. She's was like where did this come from some the guy from the times worse store like disease. We spend millions of dollars a year on the data. They weren't involved in this like and who is the golden did this. I demand to know exactly pretty much. So basically they're like. Oh my god. This is so cool. You know happened to be at a time. Where her she was just kind of raining. Kind of getting out of doing a lot of cgi and trying to do like real stuff again. They're like oh my god. This is amazing. Whatever and they're like. Can we share like we want people to see that this is real and share the bbc. So her she's actually share the beats yes as a paid post and they had like thirty million views or something and ready for this one. This is never gonna happen again. I'm sure they thanked me in their paid posts. Like steve giral for doing this. Brand's never do that. Did their agency or their advertising. Yeah on instagram. They're like based giral and it was just like boom. I following display blew up. I'm pretty sure like apple. You know there's better than i do but someone that apple doesn't even let their dp's or filmmakers. Say that they shot or dinner. You can't even put it on your or anything and here. I have her vic thanks. Yeah so once again. I mean i. I did a lot with a lot a lot with nothing as far as like what normal budget would be for everything we did. In the time i put you know. And that's the thing like when you get these chances. These early chances. If there's a common thread variety heard in my story is like make it. Also like doma worry about making money on. Don't worry about anything else. Like put like don't sleep like think about it like obsess about it and make sure that it is awesome. Because you're not going to get that chance again. You know otherwise you've got to really take advantage of these little chances you get So yeah so that her she's saying worked out great and that's where viral and it was all over again guy again if people were like. Oh it's the same guy. Is this thing and they started like you know threatening at a you know and you know kind of amazing once again. Unexpected i put it out there just like you don't know and then i'm trying to think where mean after that kind secured like. Oh big brand believes in him paid them to do this. He did something amazing. So other people started kind of coming around after that. Which you know you was really good. I'm just trying to think what would be the next like iconic jump from there that i did did you. Did you continue to any product pataki after that or was that really little bit. I mean i say a little bit and it's like oh yeah. I did super bowl campaigns for pepsi. Like that. Because i gotta be honest when i started this interview i was i was i was pretty certain in my head and i was totally wrong but i was pretty certain that i heard i heard the call combination right. I heard photography. And i heard a technical institute and i was like. Oh this makes perfect sense. Here's a guy that's not exactly to do since he was really on. And that's not the case at all figuring it up spit you realize how how perfect sounding is right here. Doing photography ends up doing some of the greatest product photography period in the world and that was the funny thing to the fact that like so i. I started collie myself. A visual engineer and a lot of people were like with als. This dude you know whatever and actually was looking for a new studio manager for my studio and it was like working for steve. Draw vigil engineer and like it went on reddit as well as just the job post. Who's this dude that want somebody that knows like welding to work for him and like whatever as studio manager like whatever. It was. Just kind of that okay. Here's my here's my here's my my main questions is one is do you think that. There's a benefit for commercial filmmakers today to learn about some facet of engineering louis. Absolutely and that's why we're gonna teach it like we're starting at school the garage learning because like and it's not just even about like engineering. Honestly it's i feel like what's lacking in a lot of education now is like starting at the beginning. Learn the fundamentals of how something works. Not just like a a hacker trick that teaches you how to do one thing. It's like i like. I could teach somebody how to light. You know a beer can but then all they wanna do is lighter. Beer can but if i teach somebody about light and reflection in shape and highlight and soft plate light anything they want you know and that's kind of what i learned a lot when i was assisting other photographers that did beauty and fashion and all sorts of other stuff was you know like it's not just about like copying what they do. It's about understanding the the media the tools that you're using And how you use those tools to do really cool stuff and once said well welding woodworking blah blah blah those tools in my toolkit along with how to light food and beverage and other things i learned as a still photographer and run a business and accounting and mark marketing. Like once again. Those are all tools that the more tools you have the more you can do like. You don't need to become an engineer and take a class and like whatever most control but understanding how it works. Let's you think about how to do something that way higher or do it for you but like once again like a like. That's why i'm so hungry for knowledge constantly. It's like like every new thing. I learned could be a new cool concept. I could make something out of you know like like i get straight to your life the virgo drums. Still being near many blows my mind. I don't see it as like that different. Like i'm like everyone thinks this way. It's like not seeing filmmaking almost the same way that you see it as a skill as knowing how to you know work some machinery and robots being able to work and weld and things like that but each one is the skill when you combine them. You get more interesting visuals absolutely and then you know now. Basically if we fast forward a little bit like how we innovate like that. That's like i wake up every morning. And it's like how do i innovate how we make vigils as not just as one can almost all the lights. We make all the way all the lights we use. We made our own we literally. We don't really use like everyday like everybody else uses like. We literally built our own lighting system from the ground up once again. I'd never built a light before. Like never never taking a class and light building these these two right. It's a highly know anything about dynamics or you know a million different things. I don't know about but it doesn't mean i could buy. Led by power supply. Burn it up. Get up whatever like that. What's the reason for needing to build these tools or a system like like. Oh there's a few actually it's funny like for me. It's always been like a problem. How do i fix it. And that's how. I kind of get passed a hurdle like so basically. I wanted to work with the phantom camera. I knew this. And i wanted to light stuff. And when he worked with phantom. There's all sorts of troubles that you run into retail freight of the stuff. Yeah basically a you need a lot of light you know because you need to like. You're at a thousand frames a second year at one two thousands of a second shutter speed which is a lot of light. So that's a problem. That's probably one problem to like. It's like blights liquor at a higher frame rate so almost every led hmi you name it pretty much liquor at high frame rates so that pretty much pushes you to use like big chunks in like movie lights like ten days and twenty days but my studio in manhattan didn't have enough power to run more than one five gay or like maybe two five as if i didn't use anything else in the whole studio way less power efficient thank you. Let's efficient so to get the amount of power needed. I needed like way. More power says is a led lights. Goodbye flicker the the. Hmi lights can rent flicker just like there was no good solution and like i don't have the shooting crazy. High frame rates to down needs pretty music and so was like but i know. Led's i started doing my crazy research. And i'm like there's one hundred one hundred fifty two hundred. Five hundred watt led chips that. Hey power them the right way you could. You could get the power you need. So i just started buying them messing around and i burned up a lot us. There was only a few fires at the studio like little fires. And then you know and then it went onto like learning that i'll eat. Chips are like basically like on off switches like they turn on really passage or not really fast. So i was like oh well. Why can't i use like still photographer. Strobes freeze action right. So why can i use. Led's strobes also. I build a lighting system that could be strobes. led's like this is dislike. This sounds like work league. Let's give it a try small-scale and whenever that was kind of the beginning of my lighting system was like all right. So i made some little lights and i actually use them in some videos and once and i was like oh. I don't want this big fan like because i'm also working macaroni. Lots on like what's going like might be shooting objects as vague and like. I don't want this huge twenty k. Or i don't want like so was like. I want small lights that i could put close to things so i was like. Oh well if. I use liquid coolers at cpu chilling for gaming machines liquid. Cool the led's because led's are super. He'd he'd cents right so you made. I can make like tiny little lights that were like. Tiny number who powerful will decide like a fish tank pumped clubbing water through. It threw a bucket. You know but it works. Our system is basically you do. So you don't have to move it around to find it's like for me it worked. These are all solutions for me. I'm not saying everybody go build out your lights and go like 'cause my problems were different working with phantom. You're alone though. I think a lot of a lot of a lotta gaffer's for instance that we talked to do make their own lights too because a lot of the time. It's just like oh we got read a bunch of lights inside of his car somehow. Want the heck nothing really fits. We ought to our own thing. You like you like all. Cinematographers are all filmmakers but all camera operators and cinematographers will someday need to know some knowledge of robotics. I you know. I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I mean they don't even know how robot works but they need to know that they exist and how they can help them. Because you know coming up right now. Everybody's nobody shooting people want to get back into work. But you need a camera operator. You need a key grip dali whatever it like. One robot replaces five people onset because it probably it pulls focus for you. It moves the camera for years. The camera operator is the a. c. b. You don't need a dolly because it moves itself you don't need a key grip like once again. You don't need the same amount of work also to like get the tracks lay down and get everything going like so like one camera operator. Like robot operator. I mean can replace like five people and he doesn't need to be anywhere near the camera he could be across the room like tom cruise or somebody like liability insurance says okay but nobody could be near him like we still maybe shoot and do cool stuff. But that's where came a robots. I could really help in that round. The fact that in in for us. I mean we own three robots right now and that all three of those robots to replace like three people or whatever so we could do shoots with three people that looked like they had a huge crew because you know the robots are doing a lot of the work for us and they do it really really cool way because the the the only reason i use the robots because they're super repeatable they're super accurate. They're super fast. They nail the same move exactly the same way. The focus that same point at the same time like accurate. Because when you're trying to chase like oh when this thing hits this thing you know that's happening like point one seconds like you gotta be dead on. The roads are awesome. You know that's why. I chose them in the first place. Where the burger drop like. I was literally adjusting. The timing of things on that like one millisecond like time frames like. Oh let me make that. Cut the rubber band three milliseconds later like my head could actually think like in milliseconds. This point zero zero one like it's crazy. It's not normal. Like i think these like half second shots you make. It's exciting when you toss okay. So then again. He's molested questions are because we go to the watch. Something real quick with the ceo neal to talk about that but well let's take was one four people that want to start learning about you. Robot camera robots start learning about rigging and things like that that see that there is a future in this but i think a lot of people get scared by the price tag right like you said a lot of the robots are one hundred dollars thousand dollars. How would you recommend that they learn these things and the second part of that question is do you think there'll be a day that these motion control. Robots are affordable to the point that a lot of independent filmmakers are also using these on the regular day to day basis. They i mean to some extent they already art. I mean there's definitely a lot of motorized pan tilt heads motorized sliders with heads or the one by lennon. If you saw that like like these are robots. I mean does it have to be six access like bolts or whatever but it's basically what we're doing i tell people they're like what's the starter robot and it's like it's a motorized lighter with a had a focus that you could program in some way either using dragging frame are using torino in code and whatever it is so yeah. It's it's going to get much more affordable. I think it's in some ways going to be the new dolly in so many ways as this offer gets easier and As far as to learn about him. I mean that's the that is the number one reason starting the garage learning which is like to teach people how this stuff simpson omega six. Yeah like a lot of the things that i thought were really in except like not easy to find when i was trying to learn this stuff. I'm in the middle of shooting actually after this. I'm gonna finish up a story on mike. How the phantom camera works and why you would use it. In about flicker lighting. And all these things you know. 'cause i wanna learn it. There was no good resource Robots the same thing. Like i was like this. This thing works of were. Our goal is going to be to make them super accessible and the information to start like what's your beginner. Robot will be a motorized. That's that you just put a thing on. That will teach you how to run. That are known you can do that for like three hundred bucks. You could get a thing that does it and you could do it. And boom you're up and running and you're like oh we can apply that knowledge to like another access in another access you kind of build on that knowledge until you get to the big robots and for me. I didn't buy a robot. Until i knew i had enough work to support it. I would just rented in the client would pay for it so i started out with simple you know. Regular dollies and regular sliders was moving by hand like you know. Somebody asked me just the other day on instagram. They're like you had to choose one phantom camera or robot which you're going to be stuck in a desert island and i said i was like look. You could move the camera a lot of different ways. It doesn't have to be with a robot. I've done all sorts of stuff on sliders and things whereas it takes more tries. But you could do it but you can't fake emotion like there's no other good slow motion camera that exists for me. I bought the phantom first. Then it'd be by robots robots robots. Whatever my robot family does robots lonely so they need friends make another robot purpose you get the baby robots do you think the bowl junior came from. It's natural it's natural for people especially. Let's say you're films your film student right now. I mean. I think this is motion control as a better word for it is an absolutely part of your life and the work that you do and how you work and it already. Is you know. Bush control itself has been around for twenty years. I mean it's nothing. New is way easier faster better. You know like before they would call robots like overtime machines onset because like it would always break or crash or like whatever would like something would have worked. The focus motors overheating. Whatever it is but now they're getting to a place where they're way more reliable way more powerful than what they can. Do you know it okay. Then last question. Is it a question about this. Podcast is always us. Everybody that comes on the show is here in those two double doors behind you. Suddenly fly open from the wind. And there's a portal back there and all of a sudden looking at you and we're like steve what's going on. Mossend knew him sucked back in. Your head is getting smaller and smaller in the distance. And you fall back into those double doors and suddenly drop and in front of you is a guy that looks a lot like the back of your head when you were fifteen and you walk over and you tap is shoulder and he turns around in. It's a you sitting on a miami beach tired and you just finished shooting a bunch of beautiful women that it's not really what we wanted to shoot that day and you feel like something's missing and he turned around and the portal's there but it's closing in about a minute. What is the last thing that you tell yourself if you can say one thing to yourself when you were fifteen about the journey. That's going to come. I would say things could get tough but doh. Don't stop following your dreams. You could do anything you put your mind to. You know which you know. I've apply what about like the know that because i'm a fifteen year old kid but but yeah most people get in their own way more than the world gets in their way of like a achieving what they think they want to do. You know i think too. Many people give up too soon are they. They see it as like. Oh how will ever get a robot or get a phantom or whatever that was me. I i remember how ever like half a million dollars to have the robot. The camera the lights the power. Whatever like what's the robot without phantoms doesn't do much good ones putting it all together. It was just like impossible number to me and like now. It's like okay. Yeah that worked out you know so. I think there's a will. There's a way you know just in this. Keep going and you know what don't do it in a vacuum and you know fi- community of people around you they could share your ideas with and but don't listen to them like like idea be like. Let me show you what i mean. It just like proven right and you know. Do it right You know and after you do that things work out a few times. You know you'll be like okay. I can do this and you know. I think for me also early in my career. You know you wanna know looking at looking at me. But i got into triathlon as like that. Sense of victory in triathlon made like doing something super hard. That i'm not built to do like i'm like a two hundred and something pal dude that whatever and i did like three half iron man's in my life you know yeah and it's like look if you could if i could do that then this is easy so you know i think challenge yourself. It doesn't have to be just photography but just in general in your life get uncomfortable. Don't get too lazy like you. Just got to keep moving forward and pushing yourself because nobody else is going to do it because i got you know an instagram all the time. Like hello sir. i'm pakistan they. How can you help me become my dream. And i can help you dude. You got to help you. I don't know your world. I don't know your situation like i didn't know mine either and i figured it out so you gotta you know. And that's where. I'm happy to give people education and hold their hand and trying to make the experience easier. And that's what we're going to be doing with the george the garage learning And it's because we. That's how i did you know it's like i didn't go to fancy film school and like you know work as ac in a dp whatever like. I figured that that whole stuff out. I didn't go to engineering school like you know like so. Like and and matt huber was also part of my team and riley. Who's are there person in my rigging apartment like we're all self taught in so many ways and we want to bring that knowledge to people that want to learn you know. Try to make their league like easier but the end of the day. It's up to that. They got to put in the time. Like there's nobody else can do the time for you. We can make your life easier but you still got to put in the time you know. All right steve. Thanks for coming on. The podcast really appreciate having you on the garage in the garage. Learning of course definitely looking forward to that for sure. So i'll definitely be one of the first people to sign up as well. Thank you for joining us. Really appreciate it. My pleasure man. This is super fund and this concludes episode. Forty eight mogul podcast steve. Thank you for coming onto the show and learning about robots with us. Guys wanna go see a more in-depth version of machines motion control the absolutely should go see the video that we did with steve breaking down his gorgeous products and mcafee's so make sure you find that too well but that is it for me guys. I'm ted this is indy mogul absolutely made date and of course. We'll get you guys mixed.

miami steve jerome coke hershey steven mozelle richard abbott donna murphy steve cuba ramdas batarfi jack daniels Victoria Rochester institute of technol mexico richard avedon new york city
Fashion and football

Monocle 24: The Stack

29:47 min | 1 year ago

Fashion and football

"This week, we speak to one of the most influential figures in the world fashion. Former vogue fashion director, Tony Goodman. She tells us about her new memoir, also on the show more fashion, and where it meets football. We welcome Felicia pennant founder of season magazine. We're ready for kickoff on this week's edition of the stack. From Dory house in London. This is the stack thirty minutes of print industry analysis with me Tom Edwards coming up on the show. I'll be speaking with fish opponent from season. Beautiful title about the full game would focus on women's football. But before all that we speak to a legendary fashion director, who made history vogue magazine for some Tony Goodman, embodies American style, like few others. She's just released a new memoir points of view of beautiful time about her life and career. Monaco's fares. Nando go check. Oh, spoke to Tony about the book and how she first entered the fashion industry. I did start out his model. It was by default. I must say in the book, I tell the story of being in tenth grade in high school and looking for a summer job. And my parents were very good friends with alert, who is at that time, the editor in chief of mine was now magazine, and men, wisdom accident, does not exist. Any longer. It was like the baby vogue, who's very sophisticated. But it had a younger audience. And it had a younger price point for all of the clothes, and it had wonderful tall rivers. He that summer said, whoa. I don't have anything to offer you, but, you know, you're tall and skinny wanted. You see if you can model. And so I did. He sent me off to the talk refers that I could test pictures with. And I did start modeling for Mozelle that summer at that time. I also did an advertising shoot my first advertising shoot, which was for a company called villager and their campaign was a new girl in the village, and I was the nubile in the village of his very charming, I made more money than I thought I could ever have made in one day, and it started my collection of art books. The first big artful that I bought was of Mustaf Clint book that had still to this day, I have the book did you enjoy your time is because, of course, you end up like working the fishing industry, but more. Magazines. But was it kind of a pleasant time as a model when I was in tenth grade in the summer, it was very pleasant? I worked with some wonderful tall refers, one in particular, David McCabe. Who did I did a lot of work with? Then I went straight back to school for seventh grade. And at that point decided, why don't I try it for a year between high school and art school. I ended up going to art school, and I had a very successful short lived career because I worked with Richard Avedon. I worked with arriving pen, I worked with brute stern. I worked with the core photographers that were working with magazine at that time. And of course, they were the best fashion photographers of the last century, essentially, so I was very very fortunate to work with them. But I just simply was not a good model. I did not have the confidence. I didn't have the confidence I think is probably the reigning factor. You do have to have a sense of yourself that can deliver. And at that is generous with the camera and is simply did not have the confidence to be jealous with the camera. So I was very short lived career go, but, you know, moving forward to bits and then one of your first jobs was to work with Diana Freeland. I mean that's, that's just fantastic. Right. Well story behind that is that my brother went to school with Diana Wieland's, grandson, and his brother. The grandson was Nick Alexander relent school with Ed and Nikki nNcholas. Greenland, his brother became a very very very close to mine. He was the one that tried well, it turned out to be successful introduction by default once again, by default, but he wanted to introduce me to her. She was reluctant, because she felt that she did not want to disappoint him, if she didn't like me, and she, you know, the whole sort of personal connection. In fact, what happened was an editor that was working at long. Saw me on the street, when she was shooting in front of my Portland house and said, will you come up and the editor in chief of what magazine I said. Well, of course, it will be elevator and she got in the elevator and that was the end of the story. So she then met me and she sent out a memo, which is in the book that is very, very charming about how her staff had to take her word for this, that I was going to be a good model, but they had to be devoted to the endeavor wasn't gonna come easy and other words when you read the memo in the book you see that it's kind of a mandate that she puts out there. And at that time already, did you see yourself A-Rated own you know, what am I want to work? Like actually, we've magazines in a way. We're you're ready kind of planning your next move at the time. I know what I really wasn't. I haven't worked with magazines model. I never saw a transition moment into being an editor at a magazine when I started to work with his end. When I came back from. Italy, I spent a year in Italy as part of my art school curriculum. And when I came back from that I decided not to go back to school to Philadelphia, polish for, and there, I was in New York City. She had just been appointed the special consultant to the costume institute at the Metropolitan Museum of art. And she was really revitalizing a very kind of an unknown sector of the museum nobody really knew that there was this incredible treasure tro, which was actually, the name of one of the show's afterwards of costume at the Metropolitan Museum. So she came to relate, just open everything up. It was incredible. And she essentially mounted the shows with volunteer hands and I was one of those heads, I came aboard, and we worked in the galleries we Gress the mannequins, we move around the galleries, we put them in there between, which is what she called their glass cases plexiglass. Click. Cases I worked there with on ralian tally started there with MRs ruined. It was this group of kids that were so excited to be working with her and to be just getting her own. I mean, she had such a remarkable meek point of view herself that was extremely unpredictable, which was part of the lesson. It was part of the challenge, because you had to Willie think creatively, all the time you could never take her for her. Exact words because her exact words was not actually what she was talking about talking point of view. I mean that, well, that's the title of your book, but you also have quite a strong point of view. Some people say that you define American style in a way, and I must agree. You know, the clean lines, the practical those, those beautiful images that you create would you agree? That would you say that you you're very much the finish of Americans in away? Great flattery. Of course I go on the deafening. Mission of American style. But I do feel that American style when he looked back at some of the, you know, the great designers, the Claire mccardell of the wrong, even up through the halston. There is a point of view a direction there that deals with simplicity practicality and elegance, and I do feel that those are parts of my life that have been not nurtured. I don't how to say I think that I just it was the easiest place for me to fall into I do see things clearly and with, you know, a singular point of view, and I do find that when you find something that works for you, you and your comfortable with it, then that can be something that you live by. However, you can never be too. Sure, because so many things have happened in the course of my life where it is necessarily had to take a different direction. And when that happens, you have to embrace it, and something good will come of it for sure in happens on voter shoots when. Something falls apart. And don't think it's, you know, your disaster is not a disaster, something else happens. And you didn't expect it, but it's there for the taking and it's good question you've worked, you know, we've about one hundred fifty VO covert. What makes a good Kover I know, I know you, you, you help to make then and the amazing foot of shoots as well but ease their rule because one thing about vogue that I enjoy very much, especially the American vote is the consistency. You always have amazing covert. I think that the converse have changed quite dramatically. I've been doing for twenty years. I'm now up to a hundred eighty seven I think keep account keeps coming. I just shot to covers last week for folks August and September issues in their more coming up. But I think that when I started it, we were still in transition happened extremely quickly. When I started it models, the supermodels were still the ring the reigning forces. They were the ones that were on the cover, and they were the ones that sold the magazine, and then the transition happened that the celebrity cover became a selling point, what the celebrity covered was that it opened a whole new demographic of people that would look at it. So you have fashion conscious consumer that was buying the magazine. And then all of sudden you also had the celebrity world that was now buying the magazine. So you had a fusion of two cultural phenomenon that were happening at that point. This elaborate really did take over the cover and to this day. That's what sells a cover is in a different relationship, for example, war king. Let's say. If you're in the footage shoot, we've immortal in a celebrity because, you know, the motive her job. But the celebrity did they might not know how to behave or do you think it's changing celebrity these days? They have to expect that, you know, the my being in the lovely of oak for to shoot. I think that, you know, it really depends on the person most of the celebrities, I would say, categorically, all of the celebrities were happy to do abo-, cover, and happy to work with what it takes to make VO cover. It's very different than for working with model course. Because model is a team player with you. You're all on the same team. And you any bumps in the road works together. And it's just it's a different kind of embrace with the celebrity, you are ringing that celebrity to vote and vote is going to her. So that is an interesting combination because you need to be true to who that personality is. But that personality has to come to vogue, and get our. Or stem of a kind of standard of elegance applied to them. And sometimes that's not what they're known for and nor should they be known for that. They have different persona that they project. But when they come to go, I think it's a very happy marriage. I think that, you know you get a beautiful result. And that is, in fact, what makes an interesting cover something that you didn't quite expect to see them being perceived as there's an amazing imagery in your book coming. It is a thing of beauty is on. I have to say, maybe because I'm Brazilian but I love the images with Brazil model her cows Zimmerman as well, which a think she's evoke quite a lot. I mean, do you have like a favorite more doors or someone that you work that you really, really enjoyed I have to say, I really love the girls and wreck hell is what she is? So fabulous. Because I love her as well all the what, what they're doing, but wreck hell you throw anything at her, and she is like a total chameleon. She can really do anything you Papa wig on her. She becomes. Totally different character. She has to be that is absolutely infectious. Never have bad time with her that no matter. You can throw anything at a team that has her on the plane feels. She can do anything. She's absolutely divide. But they all are. And of course, it they're working with the best tall refers. They're working with the best bashing they ignore. It is a privilege for all of us to be working with though, because you're working with the best of the best and is interesting, vulgar. I mean, because, you know, we hear the show is, is all about magazines newspapers and, you know, at at a few years ago people saying, oh, my God, printers, dad. I mean, this is, of course, completely believe it is too, so powerful and I mean, the printer should I know that there's no all digital ways and everything. But his interesting how the print issue is standing as the strongest product, isn't it for my generation, I still feel that we -ality has a it's an? Essential element. You can't have everything be virtual because. No, it's too Summerell. It just has its own way of disappearing. When you have something that you hold in your hand when you have imagery that you can really flip back to because it resonated, you move on. But then to go back to it that kind of thing is very unique to rent, and one of the things that I think is interesting with the younger photographers that I have been working with is that they are now shooting on film, they are not doing digital photography, and that in and of itself, tells you something about the value of the printed, image, that was Tony Goodman, and point of view published by Abrams is out now. The fee for women's World Cup is currently underway in France. And the attention given to the women's game is but a fraction of that enjoyed by the men's this most recent edition appears to be enjoying a breakthrough in terms of coverage and media focus, but is so much that still needs to change. So says Felicia pennant editor in chief and found season a beautiful title dedicated to women's football and fashion. I'm happy to say. Phyllis is here to tell us more about it Fleischer. Welcome good to have you with us and congratulations issue. Six of season, which is a joy to behold. I like a nice. I like portable magazine just size wise. It's good to carry around exactly. That was the kind of the idea. Like when you go much, much day program, you may or may not buy it, but they are the and the idea was to make kind of much program size and I know like mugs choice dealer, ultra humbug size that really wasn't were came into my mind. I was like, no fanzines programs, the smaller than Maxine saw is and yeah, like you said it is put bull also. It's just different on the niece done next the big Amax, it does kind of stand out more, unlike most programs most of those there. So bland, and I guess this is a broader point maybe about coverage of the game women's game. All of football, really, there is a kind of middle of the road, you taught before about mayo payroll and stale being sort of the Mer to, to journalism. But what if it will fund, why don't we put up with it because whether you reading national newspapers or the football kind of glossies. This nursing great ones out that I don't draws. And yet, people don't seem to get that upset about it. You obviously don't best. What do you think, I think, because ultimately, it might be just about conceiving information say, like my example. I'd be is a tolsey, Maxine of fears, I hate how it looks is really cheesy is very crate. If However, I guess it does the job in a sense that you got this access in the consigned, the club, I guess, is what things some content design, and they've oversee fixed on content. And I think just Germany cross the border thing like winning to offend offend anyone. So it's like if it's meant of the road and easy to understand, digest. Then it's like you just more excited that you've this continent. This interview, this player of them were looks like now, if you move creative, as I guess we all are then for me, they're kind of almost equally important, and that gas stocks that always tension between the journalists and the graphic designer when you're laying foul in the woods important lack. No. But it looks like you have it, we need to kind of find. A happy medium that word is important. I think people in this building, we want to send that tension. Reuters Barry complicated. Let's take a step back oversee. We're talking the women's World Cup is going on. I've been talking with colleagues, we were chatting before we started about the attitude around the gain, the coverage, the enthusiasm seems different new immediately. I did I slightly more sanguine about it? Why are you more cautious? I mean you're suggesting that what child, you know, the coverage interest could fizzle once tournaments gone. I don't know. I feel like it's, it's moving positraction. My just naive or do you think your you'll be vindicated in a in a sort of in a month's time depends on what you think progress looks like if I'm a comparing, you know what the coverage was before. Welcome. What it will be afterwards. I think for me it's also about kind of diversity of coverage. Now I can see where I'm standing and kind of this independent space, whether a so me women doing projects like all funds the oldest I mean they've been going since twenty thirteen but there's so many women can taken upon themselves with a is imprint poke call. Or something like that, or websites now, let stud some premier losses because mainstream, I guess it's thing of having to appeal to everyone. And if you are more independent than the bit more niche, you have creative control. So when it comes to coverage across the board, I guess, thing of maybe it's, you know, really knows who the audience is. And guess what the objective will be no oversee this. Comparison if the men's game and I think with the coverage I think there has been a guess, twenty two in the similar way. But also the, you know, the amount of jobless women and people involve actually follow the game can speak about it in the same way that people con the men's game, you know, the women's game isn't slapped in your face every single day like the men's game is in terms of Jonas away last female journalists are all jealous that may be did kind of specialize women's football Narva Daphne there. And I think that what's great as you can see them coming to the fore, novices, their time, this lists topic for me. Being a little cynical about this cave is the great moment. But some moment, what's next? And I think that from what I've heard about naming names. It seems like what kind of works in the favour while maybe at for different? It's because there is like the euro's women zeroes in England in twenty twenty one so you can see clear kind of time that can be made on it seems to someone who maybe didn't think it was before because you can link these two moments together, at least if you're in England say, I think maybe it does feel different. But then I'm there is cynical things. Are you doing this? Because you wanna celebrate these women's debate the game push forward and spire, semi people, you doing it because you can make money from an it's more cynical thing and doesn't ulterior motive. So I guess we'll see very diplomatic point about the game. It was talking to kill him. Jacobs from Caracol McGee about. We were talking about this vaccine issue of is it still a good thing. If people went scrutinizing the game kind of realize that in a lot of ways, it's just the game is the prism to ask these more penetrating questions. And it's the same about, you know, any issues whether talking about racism, misogyny, on the phobia of the newspapers, I have covered the women's World Cup with a bit of additional debt and bit more consideration than they have done before. But the problem is that in the same way talked about that stuff around say sailing racism in the game would up and then people sort of turntable said, well, hang on, how many black faces are there in your newsroom. Oh, well that's not really relevant right now. And the answer was a big fat zero. Is that is that the power of football, though, to actually turn it right? Round and say you have all seen around questions. It's about the games problem. It's still a much more read social problem. I think football I think football makes can make things we'll particles. Like you said like hits thought like entry gateway, and I think that's something we definitely do season. I am a woman of color, and sometimes it does for like, if you football it's, you know, the gender thing I'm the race thing, and it does come up like rain starting a great example of that people ask being, particularly because I and my daughter, Chelsea fans. And they're like, that's like the most racist Klopp, I'm deed, EFI club has funds that do things like that. Also, feel color experience, almost every day, depending on where you are. So it's thing of, I think football is a nice gateway to discuss these things, and also maybe bring people in conversation and make them think about it from different point of view, like if it's your favorite player, or I think there was a really interesting. Meeting study about as Lama phobia Mosala pool fires, and how pay down in Liverpool because people seeing someone who's a role model also doing really great things for the team, and then not kind of shifted that perspective on, I guess his place off the pitch. So I guess. Yeah, football's great gateway. And I think it makes people think about things in different ways. I've also been a match, and you see fibber does bring out a side to you, the publi, I guess, show or in public like he may be bit more spiral and stuff. But I've heard people scream reporting things next children. But you'll sure they would never ever say in any other circumstance so footballs, great with extremely of opinion in like, you know, I've seen shows with guns. You know toning things. Please pick them up from a video, and he was like I had no idea what I was saying and they will, but you'll see. Sean. And he's. Yep. At the crowd and just swept up and I'm not obviously really lame excuse. But totally understandable. That being swept up in the emotion of it, and people chant things that maybe they don't believe, but in the heat of the moment that they're, so let's talk a little bit more about the magazine itself oversee the game against the prism. That's the way in what's your what was your elevator pitch? And what's your one liner for the uninitiated people? Don't is it about, you know, it's football and fashion. And it's a bit of coacher this great journalism. It looks ROY but it still wants to broadcast football Ness. How, how do you sort of, how do you communicate what it really is about to be? Well, okay. So when I started the idea was for it to be a space, where women he play and don't play. It's important to say that you can be a fan and have no interest in playing could we just our opinions express what we think about things. Celebrate the. We do football because that was not going on. I start making season two thousand fifteen so much has changed way more than I ever thought actually wouldn't such a short space of time with three years old. So it was just creating the space clubs looking all this football coverage and thinking great. The tell me about my team. I'm hearing any female voices. They're aren't really people of color around people from different religions. It's not very diverse. And why is that? And also, it's the same opinion it's an echo Burs kind of how far so that spur kind of beside d'oeuvres countering. The fact that modern football coaches, quite male its pale and it stale, like it's the same format. So back in twenty sixteen it was the day of just enlightening people like these women who would just as into football as you are. We also work in a creative industry in Russia and I was meeting. I my background is in on those meeting loss of great women being to challenge. Shoots about football and the men. They're being really shocked by that. And everyone being like, oh well you dated like a full firma. What does the football fund? That like, and there were these stereotypes of what football funds female football funds and were, and it was like, well I didn't fit into that book. So it was just Shaun king could be my massively into it. So just yeah. The first is, she was kind of, you know, airing those points of view giving women platform to talk about it also dressing issues like we did off side rule. And you know, it's used as a spot test. So now, add say evolved into which was an independent platform, but the fashion of connection because it's crystallized move widely in culture, I guess, always on Jurica springs to mind with hover Zayn was so great incur Stover, and it became this kind of, I guess, statement of taste light for me. I'm doing so it was always a statement of my dentist thing that Christopher plea was really comfortable item sold out. And personally, I was always seeing kind of football, references on a walk books looming designers are. Footballer lost style. So three point five billion football fans on the planet, of course designers into the world's most popular sports wrong with the other two. Nice it does so many football references that you can see the community or this kind of tribalism way more and something's away more sought to the Nino turns coach on the Casuals. So you know there's someone really great like oh shea French sun. She does stuff PS chief of bouquets as she herself is a football fund Haddad. He's awesome. Munger all these great stories kind of, if you unless you spoke to someone you wouldn't know and also as a woman before he may be felt confident who came about because you felt like you'd be dismissed. So now I've say independent national football platform. The whole idea is just to with content show. These stories we kind of fashion football stories on this idea of expressing fund three dress, your personal style, fuel beauty and the these kind of connections. So is kit. Spits also looking beyond that to the fuck that say now we have these teams around undone another row kind of again. New standard being Sutton tons of design like with us. I mean, like months, I think it's very months star thought making an awesome football care. And if you hit a story behind it, it's amazing. So meaningful for them. And now I think it's taken up north lots of teams a thinking, right? We're going to use this to our identity who we are an, you know, that kind of thing if you look good you play good. Yes. Being spotlight players liaison recover and his also because she's the well carve and thought thing of winning to like support someone and show, a different sides. The so important, this three sixty view of somebody show her as a woman as a person as just a player, I think, what's really great is the all being shown as players on the pitch in the football, Kip, who they when they go home, they engage day, they will kind of twenty somethings and normal women who just so happened to be amazing football. So it's like why don't we celebrate that side effects and makes them more relate? And then as the men's game cool those mundane things that they do. Oh, so funny. But it makes keeps you engaged keeps you coming back to and NAS, the kind of me the kind of insight and access that will help everything grow because, like we know what both more than a sport at the moon with women's game is kind of being touched as just a sport. And I think can eat everything around it fit to, like, the coach right now, most of the women, I know who into the men's game, the women's game or fat growing and evolving. Hopefully, you know, when the Uris woman, you women's, you always comes to England in two thousand twenty one will be for a long in order any where will what your journey issue. You'll be out too. I never was. I never was. Whereupon. You'll so. Yeah. Well, we hope you suddenly you get a hug. You get there. And we should also say to the uninitiated, also get stickers. Back to Mexico at you six honest. That's one for another day. We can't get into that afternoon. Thanks very much going. See us. Thank you. That's it the full time whistle her sounded for this week's program. I XE special thanks to editor Cassie Galvin come into queries as ever a welcome send them to finance. He's on f p at Monaco dot com. And don't forget to join us at the same time next week. You can always listening to this, and passed up to the show and monocle dot com by June or wherever you get your podcast slits close, though, as we like to do with the song. We're indulging our birthday boy this week. That's all producer finance. Here is Madonna's Medellin taken from her latest album, Madame x which is out now this one's fi Nando. This is the stack until twits. Thanks for listening. No good. Skin.

football editor in chief Tony Goodman Felicia pennant editor Maxine England Nando season magazine director Monaco Mustaf Clint Tom Edwards Mozelle Richard Avedon Dory house David McCabe Metropolitan Museum Claire mccardell
'Words of Wisdom'

Monocle 24: The Stack

29:50 min | 8 months ago

'Words of Wisdom'

"Hello and welcome to a special edition of the stack. I had the pleasure to speak with the grandson of fashion legend, Diane of relent. He just added to the book on her words of Wisdom. I must read I would say we also speak with Margaret Brennan from CBS face, the nation one of the best Sunday morning political programs there is and finally I chat, Surf Journalism, and the rise of female surfing with Lauren Hill. From very housing London. This is the stack thirty minutes of print industry analysis and I. AM sitting in the worst by sheer coming up on the show with discuss surf journalism with Lauren Hill author of she surf the. Rise of surfing plus Margaret Brennan from CBS Face The Nation. But I. It's time to discuss Diana relent. The Fashion Legend and cornick former editor in chief of Vogue, and you book called Bomo Words of wisdom from the emperor's of fashion is out now published by reasonably. The is edited by Diana's grandson. Alexander relent with stunning `lustration by look. Edward Hall I spoke to Alexander how he was to grow up with such a magnificent grandma, and of course we go through some of Diana's most memorable phrases. Fashion is not just close. Is it now? Part of the daily air changes all. You've been even see the approaching of. Revolution in cloud she's. I think that she had a passion for creativity and a real belief in. Creating one's dreams and finding one's voice and finding one's life and building was life off of that. And those are such fundamental. Wonderful values that they seem to remain relevant and current. Through good times and bad times. Well, it is impressive. How current is when I've seen the documentary or even when I read some of the quotes I? She feels she's very much in tune. She doesn't seem that person did just look at no storage. In fact, one of the quotes is that she can't stand the storage, right. I I. I think that that's what's really fascinating with her legacy is it's sort of like a great photograph in a great photograph is ageless, and you look at it and you just sort of wonder. What this looks totally today. And then you realize it was photographed seventy years ago and I think it's the same thing. It's really true with my grandmother. She has a sort of timeless quality which which is wonderful. Tells Alexander the process of research for the book. Of course you are granted son but. Is it true that lot of those faint those quotes, actually she is to record some of them because she didn't send so many like notes or or Lattice, a assistant while who helped with some of the recordings, so tell us about this process of research. You know. I. I've found that. A lot of people would come and tell me that when they're going through a tough time, they would listen to the documentary on my grandmother or read some books and it would sort of. Recharge them refocused them in to help them get through difficult times, and so I realized that it was really her words that had tremendous power of putting things into perspective and into helping people to clarify. Refined within themselves were they were in their lives or put things back into focus in perspective, and so I, decided to do a book just of her quotes, and it's been quite a few years of work because I didn't have enough time to really dedicate myself until recently, but I really wanted to go through all of her archives. All of her letters, all of her recordings Oliver. Books offer memos and letters that I could find in through her years at vogue and her years at. Another files that. We have in the family to pull out of those small. Pieces that I thought were relevant, and I didn't WANNA. Make it all into two word logos as if I sort of making a t shirt collection I really wanted to have. Some short in some little bit longer than sort of had. Interesting Fun perspective, and then I called him down to about one hundred fifty, so that was the process. How can you remember her as a grandmother because? From what I know her, she looks incredibly fabulous. Amazing quotes, but what about? Perhaps it'd be morning private. was she the real and that? We all know from the outside? You know she was a very good grandmother I i. don't think there's a great mother, but I think she's a very good grandmother. And she was very involved in my brothers and my life. Nick and I were born in Switzerland, and she would come and visit US pretty much every year, and would spend five days to two weeks with US wherever my father was postings in American diplomat, and so we had a lot of time with them, and they were very generous. Negate US lots of presents and I think the since they were in new. York and we are in different. Countries were sending US gift boxes all the time of abundance. Reading playing with or wearing or so those are very generous grandmother when I was a child, and then as I got older, a very attentive, very interested in me, kind of person, which was really quite wonderful. When you're a teenager in your twenties, fact, someone who's listening to you and asking you questions and not try to tell you what to do with your life, but asking you about what are your passions? What are your interests? And what are the things that you'd like to listen to? Or what move is? You're enjoying and I feel that sort. Sort of the way she approached, life was very much sort of asking questions and finding out from young people what they were doing kept her young and connected and so I always felt that there was that kind of respect for my voice at an early age, which was really quite wonderful, so we were really very close for all of the years we were together. One thing that is quite inspirational about the think. He's also her curiosity. Mean one of the quotes that is in the book, but I remember also from the Documentaries Her Passion for surfing. Was I dunno wouldn't expect you know. Hold editor saying that, but said so much passion, and there's a beautiful quotes here on the books saying Surfie I. Do think that surfing would be the most beautiful thing the world to do. I could see the passion when she said that. That's just incredible. You know what's interesting. Is She had a very sort of a romanticized vision of life, and I think that one of the reason that she was such a successful editor was she would send these photographers off to these locations to shoot with the group of models and hair and makeup and wardrobe of clothes, and then she'd had one conversation with the stylist or the photographer is a famous recording of. Richard Alan when she sending him off to. Egypt and She just says to him think of a young Cleopatra and that was it. It's all that one little phrases. All the judges say to someone like Richard Avedon and the entire photo shoot was based upon that one concept, and so regardless of what Egypt looked like you know. That's the world that. Richard recreated was a young Beautiful Cleopatra, walking around in the sixties, and so I've always felt that that she has this ability to sort of inner own imagination. She sees things in a come to life through her conversations. And when you read some of the Courts as you can see, how extremely influential she's. Perhaps it's do is for example. I have a quota. Things Fantastic A. A little bad taste like a nice splash of Paprika and we all need to splash of bad taste. No taste is what I am against. So in some ways I do think Diana probably winning joy, some of the fashion senior received today because it seems to me that she was never going to be looking back should always kind of see what's new in coming out price. I I really think so. I think that she you know. She lived through the through the transition of the world from the fashion, only being world of couture onto a world of ready to wear. End Is never a quota I saying. Oh, it's so terrible now. These are accessible. Oh, it's terrible that. More people can wear these clothes or whatever, so she wasn't somebody who's better time trying to sort of. Real history back to the good old days I think that she was very much of an embrace or of what was happening I think you know in this times? She would be embracing what we're GONNA have next and I don't think we'll know what we're going to have next, but she would be. Open to it into it. And one thing I have to mention about the book or besides different tastic quotes. There's also beautiful restriction as well. I. I was very fortunate. I've been working with Sam Shaheed who the Art Director for by last two books, and Sam is a very important. Our director and he did the layout the typography in he suggested that I look up. Look Edward Hall who I had not known in has become a friend, a young British illustrator, who I really feel channels. Cook though because is, it's amazing. Strong lines at the jungle do us to have. And he came on board, and just really brought the book to life I think that his drawings just transformative, and and made the book much more. Fun Open, easy, spirited and his her. Like opens the whole thing up from where it could have been much more serious book. I think the drawings are just wonderful. And he he sees my grandmother spirit in drawings, and did a whole bunch of drawings of her. That are just. Imaginative a lovely Alexander sorry for the difficult question, but if you could choose one quota wouldn't say necessarily a favorite, but. that. Always stay in your mind and that it instant a book. I love the quote. Put her in the back cover. In. It says I believe you see the dream. I think we only lived through our dreams and imagination. That's the only reality we really ever know. And I think that that's really important. Because I think that this is a quality that she really brought into people's lives is the world of imagination, the world of dreams from the point of view. Creating yourself following your dreams. From the perspective of Being really creative and successful in a creative field by going inside and finding you know, what are your own visions and how you can? Listen to them and I think it. Sort of has served transformative quality that it comes from within which I think is wonderful. I think to just a little bites out of the fashion world is. Starvation Diet sound. Rather keep right out. I need ice cream Guy Goldeneye. Look terrible born feel fine. All might to meet Bang in as. Many as. ZANDER ruined bowmore. Words of wisdom from the empress of fashion is out now. And now to the world of TV Sunday morning, television political programs are staple of US broadcasting CBS face. The Nation is one of the most storage of this programs. It beauty in one, thousand, nine, hundred, fifty four Margaret. Brennan is the shows current moderator a post she has held since two thousand eighteen during the coronavirus outbreak in the US viewing figures have soared, and it's coverage has brought in new audiences. Our US election correspondent Thomas Lewis spoke to Margaret Brennan for the June issue of Monaco and he began by asking her when the coronavirus outbreak had I come to her attention. We first started I mean I'd have to check the exact dates, but we've. We first started talking covering in January when than still very mysterious virus was hitting, China surged dramatically in that stood out to me at the time, just knowing the second largest economy in the world. It is a huge you. Strategic. Factor in terms of you know how they're doing will impact how we fair as well and. My background covering. Global Economics and foreign policy made it stand out to me, but I don't think any of us had any sense of what would become here in the United States that it would be this unprecedented event. That would literally completely changed the way. We're living in this country. Certainly, the way I approach things as I try to see how those dots can act and to me going into a presidential election year when the present united. States is running on a strong economy as at that point, his greatest selling point the greatest. Geopolitical and economic private to the United States suddenly being brought to its knees in crippled, because of a virus, seemed blatantly obvious to me was a huge story because it could impact us back in the United States I was looking at it from a arrival geopolitical rivalry, an economic point of view at that point I think all of us believed the health experts in the guidance that was being provided, which was that this wasn't something host, a direct threat to Americans health and wellbeing. In an obvious way, and then the health experts were kind of overcome by circumstance and information and now. Now, point back to imperfect data coming out from China that really kind of obscured exactly how transmissible virus was so in hindsight of these things you know seem obvious, but at the time as we were going through them. We were living through this huge change. You know I. Feel like the Earth. Come off! It's access a little bit in and we were just. chronicling that happening. But. Those were sort of some of the threads that we had started pulling following that brought us to where we are right now, and and that's kind of how we've covered that through the crisis is. Telling people what we're seeing coming, telling people. Why it is important, not necessarily getting caught up in the politics of it, the partisanship of it rather particularly in this moment, when people are are worried about their own health and wellbeing, trying to get to information people need to know. From your vantage point, how do you characterize the way messages from the White House? have been throughout this and then I suppose the following question would be you know how review it's at the program. Counter, that shed light on on it. Will look I think this crisis has three of hit us at the seams of our society at the weakest hearts of our society, exploiting almost every single one of those weeks seems if it's A. Socioeconomic separations between if the partisanship if it's the distrust of authority and those who are in those positions of authority in the information and expertise they convey. Congress was media. You know it's this. All out assault. On that connective tissue the seems is I'm saying at once. That has just shown US serve the most extreme version of the problem that is being described with our political paralysis in this country it's. Getting back to for us at least in the small segment that we hold onto journalists where we are supposed to be there to help, keep the electorate informed. Trust in the information, conveying is central I. Mean Your Integrity in the trustee permission. You're conveying. It is everything and in a moment of crisis. It becomes just that much more valuable to people as I think. Everyone in a position of authority, certainly I feel that responsibility producers on the shows due to. Which is you've you've got to be? As well read as well researched as up to date, and as clear as you can be explaining to people and walking them through what is happening in y. you know not just describing the problem, but trying to get a decision makers policy. Were looking for solutions to the problem. Stumbling were choosing to do in our space on our our on Sundays to try to take the politics out of it. And, so it people aren't receiving it things while not receiving the information they need when there is, you know a food fight in the middle of it, and that's unfortunately I think where a lot of these briefings and up gray is very uncomfortable for people and those gray areas are often where the truth actually is. You'll viewing numbers are the highest. For some time you see new. Come into the program and all that sort of a people who may be having engaged with the the strand, which is one of those stories in the US broadcasting. The haven't really engaged them before. Think who's WHO's cheating into United maybe more flavor. What some of those interactions Yukos have been like? Now, we've Really been struck by that because I think he gets. It confirms what what our instincts were certainly. Mind seek might. Executive Producers Instinct Mary Hager has been tremendous in bringing us back to that core. What do people need to know question each week and I think that is what we're seeing reflected, which is, there is a hunger for facts. There is a hunger for reality checks. People don't WanNa be spun right now. They don't want to be engaged in. Some of I. Think what has passed for political. Conversations in this country went which are not so much based on on what matters people at their, very. Human level I mean, we are literally talking about. Kitchen table economics and people's life and death. And by the way their own wellbeing. It is the essence of. How we function in our societies and. The the political bodies that we make up as a result of it and I think were testing the limits of our. Of our political systems in our institutions right now, this is really the ultimate stress test of American democracy CBS face the nation moderator Margaret Brennan Speaking to Monaco stomas Lewis, and you can read Margaret's insights into broadcasting throughout the pandemic in the June issue of Monaco magazine, which is available now. And now it's time to serve of always been fascinated by surfing. Even though I'm not very good at it. It's one of the most beautiful sports there is. It brings me Peace Diana relent with spoke Hawaii. Go here in the stack would agree with me. Here is a clip of her talking about her love for surfing. But, you're not really only the NBA one thing and that is. I think it's the most beautiful thing. I didn't waters. God's tranquilize to be in it. Drink it to look at it. And Debris Yourself Oh between the sky, and the water was to me the most wonderful Saudi I just a naked. Also skateboards. I. Think in Great Great. That was in a Freeland, telling us how much she loves Surfing Well Talking About Surfing I had the pleasure to speak with professional surfer and writer lowering L. Hill, who just published a book of cotton called She Surf The rise of female surfing. We spoke about served journalism, and how women have alone history in the world of surfing. Let's hear it I've dedicated Gosh last twenty years, or so to making and living surfing life, and it's been fascinating to see it really ripple out, and to see more and more people taking up surfing around the world, and and amongst those people more and more women in. In, really unexpected parts of the world in places like India and the Gaza Strip and Sri Lanka and Indonesia, and yeah that sort of an easy sag into my book, which highlights a lot of those women, and and the ways that they're really shaping their cultures in their communities and redefining femininity and womanhood in some ways within their own communities. What a livable! The of course you profile female surfers today endeavor good, but also there's a little bit of history I didn't know for example. The surfing princess is you know so. There's a Lo- long history that when it comes to female surfing right. Yeah. There really is, and you know. One of the one of the sort of downfalls of surf culture right now is that there really aren't many outlets for women surfing culture to live? We haven't really seen so-called Men Surf Magazines Integrate Women Surfing into into their media depictions, so wholeheartedly I would say, and so it's difficult I. Think a lot of women don't feel a connection or don't have. have an understanding of the long and abundant history of water women, and so that was something I really wanted to make a point of writing in sharing and doing the proper research for in my book just to make sure there was a constant place a place that wasn't gonNA. Get buried in the ephemera of the Internet for women to yeah touch base with their history as water people. Just coming back before we talk more about the book coming about your career, your professional, but you also a writer so when you were writing for you know surf magazines, or or when you're right about serve. Did you notice that it was very may focus that industry? Yeah I guess it really started from when I was a great at myself I grew up on a barrier island just off the coast of Florida. And I had a dream about surfing, and I knew the next day I had to try had to start surfing. I convinced a friend, a young guy who is my age. Push me into waves and he did, and he was amazing, and then as I grew into my surfing life, I was the only girl around really, and I had a little boys that I hung out with, and that was fine until we started getting a little bit. And we started engaging with surf brands and surf media. And I noticed how. Women were just treated differently in the surf space, often with a very object defying and sexualize approach especially within surf media at that time through two thousand. And, so it made me feel really insecure as a young girl that my guy friends were just you know part of the boy pack, and I was different as I was growing breasts maturing, and and that was really uncomfortable. At the same time mean it was very happy to find out a new book that actually last year now the elites, professionals men and women are paid the same, probably surfing's but that's that's quite a major for step, right. It is. It's a major step, and it's It's a benchmark you know. It's an aspiration for olive surf, culture and other sports as well to to aspire too I think there's a lot of work to do in reforming cultural attitudes, but I think that will come, and I think the wwl should definitely be applauded for making that stand and asserting equality as a priority in our sport. What unlivable two complete guide there was a lovely story about how women have also been involved with surfboard design, so it's not just a beautiful you. Images female surfers, but also you know there's the behind the scenes you know, so. They're also actually working the appropriate street. That was a great story. I have to say if you could tell us a bit more involved. Thank you. Yeah. That was something I was really proud to include in the book, because that's something that really comes from my intimate knowledge and experience within the Surf Industry, being able to tease out these little threads that. Women are aren't often thought of as having engaged with the design and shaping of Surf Crafts, but there there still is a rich history dating back to Joey Hamasaki in in the fifties and sixties, and then share Pin Davis. Who is a great surfboard shaper in artists from the sixties right to today? She's still shaping and there's there's a legacy that women should be proud of, and there's no reason why women shouldn't be in shaping base today and I think come. Yeah, it's it's growing section of surfboard designed to see women getting involved in getting their hands dirty in the shaping bay. And but by the way I used to surfing everyday where where you are, I'm sure it's the situation is much freer now in Australia yeah, we've been so fortunate here and our beaches have been open all through the lockdown and we've been able to surf everyday which has been. Incredible and also I can't imagine having been the other way in his trailer, because Ustralian, fundamentally beach people. That's one of the reasons why I love living here so much. In the book you mentioned some of the best places to serve in everything, but do you have a favorite place? Perhaps a bit closer to your heart I mean you mentioned under some places that you need to the Maldives or many others? Yeah there. They're places that I've been to spend. And made friends and served incredible way, so they all have you know personnel flavor for me, but one of my favorite trips was to the Seychelles just It's still quite a pristine wild place in surf. Culture really isn't taking there yet, so it felt like you know surf. Explorers must have felt in the many decades before there were guidebooks certainly before there was the internet to check every aspect of direction and surf camps, and all that, so it was really the kind of place where you get to go, and you just have to be sensitive. Pay attention to what the wind and solar doing and follow your nose. And sometimes you win, and sometimes he don't, and that's kind of the beauty of the adventure. There was lowering L. Hill her book she surf. The rise of female surfing is out now. That's it for this week's show. Tanks is always tour, editor or a whole. If you have any comments or queries right to me, financial at F. B. and Monaco, DOT COM and remember. We're back next Saturday at the same time, of course you can always listen to it again. AND MONACO DOT COM, or subscribe to the show and Apple, podcast, spotify and Soundcloud, and don't forget. Of course you can always subscribe to. As well on our website, and to end the show and continue the servive. This is the classic song by the Sandos theme from this summer. The Iconic Sixties surfing documentary. You've been listening to the stack. I'm used to share and to next time it's goodbye from.

US Margaret Brennan CBS Alexander editor Diana Edward Hall Lauren Hill Diane Surf Industry London writer Richard Alan York Surf Crafts Richard Avedon chief of Vogue Maldives Seychelles Cleopatra
A Moment in Time, with Shari Belafonte

B&H Photography Podcast

55:50 min | 1 year ago

A Moment in Time, with Shari Belafonte

"You're listening to the beach. Photography podcast for over forty years being H has been the professional source photography video audio and more for your favor gear. News and reviews visited H. dot com or download the beach up to your iphone or android device. Now here's your host Alan White strings and welcome to the beach photography podcast today. We are lucky to welcome to our studio actress. Model Singer and photographer Sherry Belafonte. And not necessarily in that order point. Thank you. We're GONNA WE'RE GONNA WE'RE GONNA get into all of that stuff. Sherry is currently story in the new. Tv show the morning show and to any fan of fashion photography. She's well known well. Recognised her face has been on the cover of Vogue. Mademoiselle jet Glamour and God knows how many other magazines and more times than we can count. It's like you you get three hundred. You could hurt yourself carrying your list with you. Knees your knees and and not too. Many people could say that they are very first vogue cover vote. I mean. Obviously you can't say and not. Many people can say that their first vogue cover shot was taken but none other than Richard Avid. I know. That's pretty impressive. Very imprinting radio from there. Oh wow well. Cherries are well rounded artist. She's also released several albums which is not surprising given that her dad is Harry Belafonte and we were talking earlier before the show that his music played my uncle's house across the street from me all the time. And I'm very familiar with it today. We're GONNA be talking sheriff about photography. So let's get into it Sherry. Welcome to our show. It's so great having Jose here so you have grown up around cameras now as a little kid all my life cameras aimed at you most again. Your Dad was Trenton Center. He was big deal. Back in the fifties sixties seventies. He broke down a lot of walls. Again everybody's familiar with his music and his acting and everything else. So you're smiling laughing about so. I was very hyperactive. Attention deficit as a child. I still lamb a little curtail with certain things now making native American blood you know wearing a bright orange camp right now you WanNa talk about it. Yeah Orange there you go. There's fast on. Go ahead I'm sorry. My Grandmother gave me my first Brownie camera. Now that's how far back I with the fan flash that you put the light bulb shit so I had that one. I was four years old. How many megapixel was and you would get this little tiny roll of film that you would put inside that Yummy and That was my first foray into being behind the camera and then instamatic semantic when I was I think I had a funny little polaroid camera that we had them all And my first legitimate camera was a pentax when I was eleven years old. Okay I was in boarding school by Matic or h three the it was. You know I can't remember I just. It was a thirty five millimeter Pentax Camera. That was dad's I know. Dad had a SPA top. Any passed it down to me so my entire high school was spent in the dark room. I smell like smoke. That was really attractive. Smell coming out of the yellow fingernails sitting in the dark. You Know Rolling and Rolling Rolling Rolling and then you know praying that you could put it in the CAN. It would come out and it wasn't all crumpled and you know so. Yeah I spent a good part of my earlier years behind the camera. And then of course like you said being Harry's daughter you know when we when he was on tour somewhere and there's Paparazzi or people taking pictures of us all the time and then Harry took pictures of us all the time that we never saw and it was the biggest joke because he was he always got get over there. Get OVER THERE. Get over there. Stop Stop Standards There. Hundreds and hundreds of pictures that were taken by. Harry and we've never seen a single one single. And why do you think that's the case? He just too busy to Kinda know if he ever developed and I don't know if there was even filmed the camera I think he had these Lycos and he just you know he just kept shooting once in a while. We saw him because he would. When he was a touring he would have these The program with this and it was always the big color program that would come with new. Buy A ticket and there would be pictures of us you know in there and we go to dad. Shoot that picture around. The house was photography kind of a respected medium. Was it an art to be an art. He did have a darkroom which he never went into. He just had it in the back next his recording studio but he did use a recording studio. Did use the recording. But Yeah we always have been shutterbugs. I think the whole definitely me more so than I think my siblings but Harry was definitely behind the camera. He was into like us us a very like a like like like scandal. And what about the Paparazzi and stuff? Maybe it wasn't. I can't even say that it wasn't like it is now because Paparazzi but was it A pain in the bud. Was it something that you guys so I was so used to? You know because what happened is my hair Harry. In Marguerite. My mom was marguerite. She passed away a few years go but they divorced. When I was very young actually separated woman was pregnant with me so there was always that kind of people trying to take pictures of that that was going on but there was a little more of a sense of decency for lack of better words with authorizing I mean. Now it's like Oh goes the there were lines. That were not crossed back then. I mean chances and stuff like that and they they definitely probably got onto your skin right probably worse today and usually think it was more of a magazine would come in. Ebony magazine would come in and say you know. Can we shoot you at home or and you know there was a story that was behind it and maybe the attorneys would go yet. It's good idea. Let's let's push that you know. Yeah we've always been around cameras for yourself. It's often family. What kind of things interested you would sort of you know? In the days I was in boarding school in Massachusetts so I I've always been a fan of black and white. I never learned how to process color and of course slides for the first things. You sort of learned. I never learned how to process but I was always into the dynamic of black and white so with the snow in Massachusetts. There was always the lights and shadows and you can stream you know falling through the ice no save. The camera saved the camera. Shot landscapes mostly landscapes. And then I shot everything and then as I got older and could start a fording stuff. I actually stopped shooting for a while and then when Sam. I got married thirty five years ago. Sam gave me my first Yoeskamnoer. I had by then already onto Canon cameras. But you know hey a one and the that great but then Sam gave me my first Kammer after maybe not shooting for ten years and we went on our honeymoon to Italy and I just shot like crazy like bags and bags film was carrying at the time. Kodak made what was called recording fill in the recording. Four seventy five four and as soon as you develop it would turn into a corkscrew that you can never hold flat that I didn't know because by then I wasn't processing okay but Three hundred you could you. Could you could set the The whatever you wanted I mean you couldn't with any film but this was if you decided to shoot at or if you wanted to shoot one hundred thirty two hundred or sixty four hundred. Just remember what you shot that at and you'd process it like if I shot four hundred three sixty I process it at four hundred by shoot at three sixty and I mean the detail was. It's crazy it's like mega pixels eight thousand and I just fell in love with that and then when Kodak stopped making it because they said well you know nobody's buying it because it was twelve dollars a roll and I know buying it. No please keep making and then shortly after you know film just kind of went by the wayside and now it's coming back. Is it coming back to us? Sales were up twenty percent last year. So you now actually have to try and find a film camera. I still actually have a rebel. Okay okay isn't it rebel? Originally rebels were killed. What was called the digital rebel? No megapixel but I did have for the Canon thirty and I was started shooting movies of Friends of mine. Who were directors said? Would you shoot stills movie and I remember get going into get a sound blimp made for my digital camera and the guys in you and Steven Spielberg's guy or the only people that have blimps for you. These eight thirty eight sixty. Whatever I add albertson blimp. Right Jacobsen Jacobsen recently closed down. There's no need for any other. No ex- exactly. I've got this this whole box downstairs in the garage is because like don't need the blimp. Next time lenses by the I worked on a movie as recently as Twenty fifteen and with a digital camera and they recorded a blimp ahead to go rent one. I mean even even that little clique. If you're onset now we have an issue thousand frames so that one was especially digital you shoot so fast. The first movie I did shoot I had asked me me. Leaders a friend of mine and she also is the executive producer and director of the morning. Show but at the time going back. You know fifteen twenty years. Whenever it was that I was shooting this I said to her. You know this is the first time shooting for a movie. What she's just keeps shooting shoot. Shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot so I did. I shot eight thousand seven hundred and seventy eight frames and thought okay. You know. I'm their mom. Put them all and give them. And then oh no we just need your best hundred. It took me like three weeks to go through every single one of those because I really looked like I was shooting movie. Everything was so slightly different. They know what would you take away from that experience? Really get an editor back to that five role mentality you know. They'll have a budget for three to five roles. And that's what you did shooting digital change anything when you when you shoot because obviously it did change a lot for a lot of people in this idea of shooting maybe too much or a lot or just the freedom they can give you. Some really changed a lot of people's now you know everything is it cyclical now. I've barely picked up my camera now. Also have a Sony seven hours and shooting with my Samsung Galaxy's the galaxy the first galaxy thing. I had a four note for one of the earlier. Ones the best pictures I've ever seen. I went on my God. Look at these pictures that I'm getting on my phone and now I have a lot of my family's mostly apple. Nothing you know not against apple but galaxies have much better pictures you know the Samsung just really has the better technology shooting with your phone and I know friends of mine even say your pictures are so much better than mine. Why is that slow data Samsung if Samsung only made and take get another phone? Get Your Samsung Stolz. But I still like I still like the weight of having a camera and shooting the cameras a different different animal. But now you know. There's a difference for photographers. I never was would call professional photography gallery shows and stuff but I'm not like Greg Gorman. Who was a friend of mine? I didn't shoot and I'm not making money like that as a photographer. And right now so many you can take so many pictures. I mean anybody can get good picture with their phone. You know you can. It's easier to get good pictures now than it used to be. You know you'd have to have a professional photographer do that. Well now I you know people take headshots their phones movies with your eyes. You can do anything. Us forces us to kind of rethink what I should be taking pictures of. And how many pictures should be taking reassessed kind of the nature of it and that's happening. I think you know this return to film. We're seeing people kind of wanting to slow back down a little bit trying to figure out what what's the basis of it. That's really what it is. It's it's a medium. It's like if you're an oil painter if you're into acrylics or if you're doing you know pencil drawings if you're into sculpture it's a it's all worthy it's just a matter of what your taste isn't what it is that you're shooting at that moment. What's your favorite subject to shoot? When you just say I'm assuming you at times and correct me. Do just take a camera. Go out every once in a while. I have a camera all the time. Well Walk I was walking back from the last night because I live on When I'm here has live at my friend's house on eightieth and Central Park West and I walked all the way back and then suddenly it's again. It's that black and white light looking. How many Johnson who emailing images go. And here's another thing. What your subject. It's a it's like what's ever in front of me at the time just catches my this morning every time you got to get a cup of coffee. Sit Down Jack in the box this morning video away. Here's a music video. I was shocked. Oh here's a short movie I did. The connectivity of the phone has changed anything about your in the sense of sharing more immediate. Because you can like whip up your phone and get something. I mean I have salmon. I have seven dogs so at one point my phone had nine thousand pictures of the dogs. You know dogs doing now. I check us out on me back to love. God Dog's gotTa Love Him so we talk a little bit about the the modeling career because I love to get some. I don't know some some insight interested in with the idea. Yeah no but I mean you you sit for how many of major magazines and I mean. What was your interaction with the time with the photographers? Were you talking learning or was just okay. I'm here to do my job as as a model and I actually. The way I got discovered was I was at a took. My camera down in front of mine was in a movie with Tony Danza. I think he's Gone Hollywood nights going back in one thousand nine hundred eighty some young. She said bring your camera. Maybe we can. You can get some pictures of you know the celebrities and so I came down and it was happened to be a night that it a big party scene so the makeup artist thought that I was part of the background and she said you know coming into the trailer and get makeup line when what no. No no no no. I'm just here to find my friend. So she said you should be modeling. And don't be selling and you know you can make a lot of money doing that and then you talked to meets a friend of mine who was also at Carnegie Mellon 'cause we went to Carnegie Mellon together and he was a photography a lighting. We're all in lighting and production. Because I wasn't enacting I was in production and so he just shot a couple of pictures of me. You sort of I mean I've been around the business all my life. I understood headshots a complete beast that I didn't know anything about so. He shot a couple of pictures. I sent it to ten agents in Nina Blanchard. Who at the time was the leading modeling agent and in what in Los Angeles? She got my picture and she called me in and I'll never forget because it was long newsroom. She was at the back of the room and she could see everybody all her little beano. Bees were sitting around buzzing and on the phone book and talent and she looks up and she had this bright red hair and kind of looked up over her glasses and saw me sitting way over in the corner and she knows she nods. The girl is bringing rain was up. I get up and walk across obviously. Didn't get any taller. Only five four set out honey and At the time I was married to Bob Harper. So I just wrote Sherry Harper. I didn't say golfing so she goes. You're not tall. You're not young. I was twenty four or twenty three And I wasn't Sagger after I wasn't in the Union. So you're not sagging. After what the Hell am I gonNA do with you? Just put your you gotta look. Let me let me see what we can. Do you know who was a guy. So she said. Where's your portfolio? When I went my what this one oh God so. She set me up with the photographer and it was the first time that I was getting makeup. Done make up and it was two and a half hours getting makeup done and I remember thinking. I'm this ugly. Who TAKES TWO HOURS MAY GO? Why am I even so after looking in the mirror to see what he's doing and he's she's doing the makeup and she's a makeup and filing takes the first Roy because back? Then we took polaroid get the lighting right and I look at the Polaroid Damn Grows. Who IS DEAD? So he took a bunch of pictures. 'cause I had different. She had different. Water was a husband and wife team so they put together a portfolio for me in one day and I took it back to Nina. There's like seven or eight shots and she's right now you're ready to go out and then that was it and you know from then on. I would go. My first commercial audition was really fun because again I didn't have my union card was one by the name of A trudy booth and Treaty booth casts probably seventy five percent of the national spots in California at the time and I went in and it was a cattle call. Three hundred people there taken. Polaroid's are you getting that line. You get in that line so I went into a room with ten other people a Sitcom 'cause I went in. I had no idea how it was going to go down. So they lined everybody up and I'm standing at the end of the line kind of looking down the line. Say All right well. Let me see what they do. And I'll just copy what they do and guy has a video camera. Does all right slate your name and tell me a little bit about yourself. Hi I'm John Smith. I'm nineteen and I like surfing. I like skiing but I really love roller skating. I've been roller. Skating was too and I'm with whoever the agency and a high means. I'm Mary Jane. I'm twenty one. You know I've been roller skating. Since I was twelve Blah Blah Blah Blah. Everyone and by the time it got to me what Shit. They're all skaters comes to me. Hi I'm Sherry Harbor. I'm with Nina Blanchard. And the guy goes. Yeah I like sports. Okay and have you been skating? I've never skated my life. And every one of the nine heads snapped to attention to look down at me. Oh this is humiliating so I left and back then. We didn't have cell phones. I left my car was crying in the Gar- going. This is awful dot home and need. There's an answering my answering machine. You got a call back you know. Go to the sentence they park and get your roller skating. Wait call her and I said I don't Roller Skate. Well went a pair. And you know. Go to the Saint Vincent de Bark God's rent a bear and I saw. I happen to see a pair of rollers. It was like a shot. Because we're back. That was back in those disco roller skating days. So there is a store that I had passed and I went in and borrow Berra's gays. Yeah you can get you know. Sure Byrom I go to the Saint Vincent. He parked put them on. Of course. Everybody's dancing around in circles and doing the whole thing and I fall flat on my ass at like constantly and again. It's just the most humiliating thing. And you know I'd go back on crime and drop the skates off. Get to the home machine. You book the commercial you have to be at Santa Monica Pier tomorrow morning at five. Am and I went what this makes no sense. Get your skates but I go back to the store and I buy the skates. Oh you got the commercial. I went apparently so go down. Sure enough I look at the contracts because I'm not cigarette and looking for contract and it's and I'm looking through it going you know it's a stunt skater and I went. Whoa you are stunned. So what happened was I called the productive. Pa and I said you've got to get director here because you guys made a mistake a huge mistake and I want whoever it was you think I was make. Sure they booked the commercial on the Director. Comey is no no. You were so bad and we have to have somebody. That's bad boyfriends going. To help you learn how to escape. Alrighty then and that's sad card and you're still using the hopper right so they didn't they were were they kind of clueless as to who was no by that time. No no that's right. I was still Sherry Harper. They didn't know Nina blanchard found out about. I was with her nine months before she found out because when I went in at one day the book one of the bookers said. Are you? Harry's Kidding Yeah. It was like wow okay and didn't say anything and you know like a weekly or told me and Jerry get in here. Oh what do they do? You really did get in on your own merits. You really did well. Yeah which is sort of look at this face about. I mean I'm sure however it's still it's gotta be satisfied to know that you know what yeah. I did know toys about it. I got a lot of doors I could open up just by smiling and looking the right way but this is you'd be surprised because what happens is because Nina said put your name back in and I wasn't working like daily. I'm probably had done two commercials. You know like a Kentucky Fried Chicken commercial or something or McDonald's commercial did something but when Nina said put your name back in and I went but she said no no. She's used that name. You've got to use that name so I did. Add the name Becan but what happens. There's the people in the entertainment industry. Really scrutinize you and they. They don't want to do well. They only do not want you to do well so it becomes tougher. You really do have to buck up because they want you to fail. That's any creative endeavor. I believe that's part of the competition thing but yeah it's definitely they. WanNa see you flopped. Because you're not getting in on his coattails you gotta earn it yourself right. Yeah that's pretty interesting and did you take to the whole kind of world of being in front of the camera pretty easily. Did you used to it? You know certainly going up into seeing dad being in front of the camera all the time. He's being stared at essentially. Yeah Yeah but muddling is different than just being stared at. I mean you have to you have to work. You have to know your looks. You have to work with the photographers. All these things are not people. Think it's easy but it's not. It's not easy because you're shooting shooting fur coats in the summertime because of the cyclical time that they're gonNA print. You do in bathing suits in the wintertime. So your and you know you're flying you're going and it's not just being pretty you know. Sometimes you're in these very awkward positions for a long time your arms falling asleep defeated falling asleep. I mean it's obviously it's a little easier than being a Jackhammer you know guide it's out there but often you just a living prop mostly being mostly Europride. Yeah Yeah Yeah and you know if you're if you're five pounds overweight you're agents on your fat you know. Go lose the weight. He gives me the same wallets. Gives me all the time? Keep breaking I mean and then one point because I was never. I always loved food but I got the movie. It's called if you could see what I hear. This was the first feature that I was doing and Nina said to me in a nice where she said you know. The camera puts ten pounds on you. You may want to consider the that fact you know. Okay I get I get it so I said I'll just stop eating sugar. 'cause I love candy bars since I didn't lots of so I just stopped eating sugar for a while and I didn't have any mirrors in our house. We just had the the Cabinet Mirror in the bathroom. That was it and if we were going out I'd stand on the side of the top and so I went to candidates. Shoot this and it was the first time the Condo that I was renting had a big mirror in the bathroom and I went in and turned on. The shower took off my clothes and turnaround with. I looked so emaciated that one. Oh God and actually the producers that are you know they called. Nina's says she okay. She looks really skinny. You don't worry I'll fix that. Needs CANDY BARS. Ninety s them. Gani so I did. I started beefing right up again. Well you could have just jumped to get a bigger camera. Use that fourteen wins and you can see. That's not my is. That's not my problem now. I weigh more than Dad. Well while we're here can I ask? How is he doing because he's doing well and good? He's he's it's hard for him to get around physically mentally. He's still very much on top of an and the physicality he has to use a walker now so my mom's ninety seven so I kind of get happy about and so he'd rather not go out in public than to be seen with that. I can know a bit more about your interaction on the set and modeling in this whole idea. If you don't mind anyway just to Maybe understand what you might have. Picked up from the photographers. You work with and I don't know how to phrase the question on the net were were you getting into it more and more at that point in thinking all right. How can I expand my work are you? You know that that part of me is done for a bit now. Because interesting is that I. I was doing a commercial for four. I can't remember but John. Bauer John. Fowler who does film in of Fomin Times magazine he anyway he's Ari Lane these Arie Rip. Okay so he had just brought. It was the wasn't the area legs it was. It was ares for smaller camera that was shoulder mounted and while. I'M ON CAMERA. You know the whole time. Kinda as I'm reading the copies coming through on the on the other. Thank you So you know reading the copy and then they'd he'd stopped because he was shooting this whole thing with this camera. It was brand new for him too. So even said do you mind. We're GONNA do some background stuff with this camera while we're shooting and I went only if I get permission to learn how to use that camera. Okay and you know the crew was like. What did she say this like? I said I want you know. Let me go to Ari and give you a crash course on how to use that camera and he said you know ever do it. Of course I started calling up going can come. Now come now. Did you have a particular project in mind when you ask that question? I was just saying I WANNA do. I WanNa do this okay. I can't I must certify steady Cam operator figure right you know and had my brother steady cam and of course the whole thing the whole time arguing going you guys. Don't know how to make steady cams for women. The whole center of gravity is lower. We don't add up here. We have down here and they're going on. Yeah all right well when you want your stadium have designed the way you want to do. Some Neil say I never did that cause yeah no because after a while and I'm not going to be up in those big heavy cameras around you Most of the guys are. That's their job. And they rented out of they need to know we had a little panasonic eight two hundred or so the lighter cameras easing and it's easy enough to walk around with them for a while. I mean I would ever shooting music videos of a shooting like a couple of things like that and walking around with it I would not even think about how heavy was getting until you go to put it back up on the rack for a while. And you're going. Oh my God you know. What was I thinking? Thing is my arms are tired. My legs are tired but Yeah you know there's there's the mindset of being behind the camera. I think being in front of the camera gives you the wherewithal to be behind the camera and vice versa. On Yeah when I was studying production because I always had anticipated. I was going to be a director and production designer. When I got out of school I took acting classes primarily to understand what the actor I saw dad onset and everything but I sort of felt in my age bracket I needed to know what it was that the actor had to go through in order to have a sensibility of what it is that they need and how to accommodate Annika relate to them you know in using blue filters and red folders and what these filters are going to do and you know putting half filters in you know I would be on the sets and watch what they were doing and you know back in those days. That's when we were shooting film. Now you just do everything digitally so you sort of you know you manipulate everything in post but it always felt proper for me to do all of it to get a sense of where everybody is in the scheme of this crazy business And you know that way. It became a genome all trades. Master of nothing. But at least I had a sensibility and you know I can talk to people when they're first time directors. That's not the way you talk to talent. Not that talent. She Ain't GonNa respond that way you know he's GonNa respond that way or and vice versa. There's a video. I kept sending him things. There's a little video called Betty's treats and the girl that is the lead in. It was the first time she was directing so basically I became the director because I was her DP and I was brought in because the woman that was going to DP or in up getting a big she said Sherry enough with you do instills on the sad need. Dp Her movie so we ended up. I ended UP D. Being shot the entire thing in one day as a matter my music video. We did the same thing shot. One day you started seven in the morning when the midnight and there's a moment in Betty's treats where there was one shot and instead it's the money shot you always want to think of the money. Show this shot where they walk up to. What's supposed to be the mass over the fireplace and they're looking at a photo and I said we have to get that from behind so is walking up. It's behind the photo by find. The picture frames it. Everybody's looking to going. But that's a real you know mantle on the on the wall. What are you thinking? You know. We're GONNA figure this out as an and it's going to be the last shot of the day but I am. We're doing that. Shot the money shot of this little seven minute video so sure we've got everything and a good friend of mine. Was Illumination Dynamics. Aries lighting arm. He went to school together so when I called him and this can I borrow some lights for. This movie has no budget. And he's come over. Get whatever you needs headlines truck full of ten games and everything like friends friends from Carnegie Mellon. Let me just drop it in there. So at the last thing we got a block. Would I put the camera up? And I'm standing right up against the wall you know. Look at the little thing. Downs on looking at it. I'm flat up against the wall to get the shot and sure enough to me. It's like had made that movie going. What Shot Best Shot? That was curious about you. Spent a lot of time in front of a camera right okay. Having people directing what takeaways did you have when you start taking pictures of people for yourself when you're behind the camera? What kind of takeaways did you have? What things made an impression saying? I'm going to do this or I'm not going to do that. And you mentioned one about communicating. How to talk to communicating? It's also too. I've had to take not had to but you know people have said. Can you shoot headshots? And there's some people and they're not necessarily talent. There was a couple of attorneys and there was a couple of agents in there and they but they needed headshots. Because they're gonNA go in the trade. Something's coming up and it's trying to make that person feel comfortable and look as good as they can on camera. You know it's making sure it's the right angle you're shooting a little bit higher than somebody just emailed me. A friend of ours is e mail saying can you and Sam come over? I'm learning how to take head shots in. Here's some samples and she sent me some samples. I only great samples get a ladder. Texter bagger when these are really cute I said but really you need to be a little bit higher than your subjects seeing. Shoot down and get rid of the Double Chin that it You know make them get the fan for the girls got pretty hair because they want to see the winning blow wind blowing in their hair and they said you know it's and make sure that there's music that they like you know if you're into Frank Sinatra if you're into you know you know Call Cox some hip hop house music. They said you know you WanNa make that environment is comfortable for the person as possible. Because then they'll feel more relax and you know whatever you can do. You can fix it in photoshop or post and I do a lot of photoshop. That was the other thing you know. After Richard Avedon shot. Here's here's a perfect example. Richard Avedon at nervous as I always had a crush on Richard. We lived on that west side every once in a while I'd see him and he was acquaintances with dad and Julie and man. I wanted to be his girlfriend. Had nothing to do with you. Know being a model but He I think would happen. Because the first commercials I did As Nina's I didn't like I said I did either Burger King or McDonald's or one of those but to do the Calvin Klein commercials because they had just done Richard at just the season before done them with Brooke Shields so this season now. He was using five girls to carry on the Calvin Klein and the Calvin Klein. Commercials were the first ones that were being shot on. Videotape else was shot on film but he had that Crisp look and you had to go in. There was an interview to I was there. I think three days at his place with Do narves who's writing the commercials and it was Cathartic would use. You spilled your guts. He'd ask questions gene. There was crying. There was laughing. Whatever was and from that they extracted the commercials. So it was me. Martha Plumpton Andie macdowell was in those. Just there was a girl named Lauren Helm. That was in them. And I just remember thinking open. But you know Richard Avedon and again. Luckily I had my makeup done so I knew it does take two hours and then Richard Shoe shot with that big eight by ten camera and he would shoot eight frames at like the most eight usually. I think it was like five pictures and it was done. Golo shot was. It was like rapid fire. Thirty five millimeter. You know shooting and quickly handed another body and quickly clay. So you really do know that. Everybody's got their own set of their agenda. Working style could have it on. Actually take the pictures. When you're in front of him he would let me think about the standings. Is that we damn next camera. And I'm trying to think if he shot. My understanding is that holds the handout with no. He would shoot but he had an assistant. That would drop in the frame. Okay because I knew somebody who was working with him and I saw that one of the things you do is he. Would either stand was sitting next to the. Lens and he would talk to the subject and his assistant and we have a cable release and he just fired. Would you need cable release? And he and he would also sometimes tell people not shooting just checking the lights and just talk with you and the assistant with quietly changed the holders and he was just talking every once in a while pop exposure and they okay and you didn't even know that it's I remember him. Yeah like I said I had to remember. He had he had the release but but really it was five. I think it was once we went seven times meeting. Yeah but after a while you know. I mean I'd shot was village. Everybody else and everybody was shooting thirty. Five millimeters shooting a lot of frames. And she's the First Amendment the image five pitchers later or you're done you're going. Oh God what's that was I that again? Was I that bad? Only you're not gonNA like waste a little more film on me. Did your father did evidence remember. He did but it's the little shot data me four essence for essence magazine for article in essence. And the first time Richard sent me. He said flog wants to use this print. But I want to use this. This is the first vote cover that because I had five though covers. And he said vote wants to use this print. But I wanNA use this woman. He'd sent me a like Xerox copy of the and that was before they were retouched and again. This is the first time I'm going. What the W. T. F. You're using either. Jesus you can see everything and I said and I just said to him. Whatever you decide. I'm good with it going. Do I know of course rob car? I think it was rob cars. Somebody whoever he had to retouched. Because Greg used rob car but you know they had those hairline brushes and they would just every little nook and cranny was filled in by the Time magazine came our again Dan. That is not what I saw sent me. And maybe now with Evan on but in general and as your career grew. Did you interact with photographers. Did you work with them? As it were collaborate or always pretty comfortable for you know except for after the first couple of times and you get. The routine is it. Doesn't it didn't take me long to figure it out so I I know they're going to touch that. Oh well no you know. I know they're going to do that so I always been kind of at ease in front of the camera. Some photographers were a little. You know. Standoffish probably didn't even WANNA be there. That's what I got the impression of but by and large if you're having a good time and they're having a good time you know hopefully something comes out of it. I've also never been really that concerned about how I look and I never really thought of myself as pretty but to me it was. You know it's just what it was. And then when she did see was retouched adapt. Well I do look good. You don't want her number. It's me but I've never ever been concerned about that. That it's never been you know if I had to go out and something in Nina Blanchard on you gotta look good all right. Well look as good as I can possibly look kinda switch into that side of the camera in in the fashion sense or in some fashion. Did you yeah I? Did you know but it was always. I've always wanted to be behind the camera but I was making money in front of the camera. So you tend to lean towards where that paychecks from done as much behind the camera. I would've loved to have done. That's what I should say but now that I'm sixty five. I'm finding myself more and more behind the game. That's great. What about personal projects? I mean anything that That gets you the camera photographic. This is what I like doing when I'm just GONNA go. I love working in Photoshop. To so and what started for me was I started. I have the science fiction idea. This brain brainchild has been my head for thirty years and it was by taking odd pictures and sometimes they're manipulated. Sometimes they're not but they're all part of this book. This thing that I'm putting together called mythos stories and the whole and there's a whole story by the name thaw stories so it's mythos stories but I- trademark mythos mythos story and I started shooting shooting this movie the big empty. Which is Jon favreau movie? I was shooting stills for it and shooting out on the desert floor and they had a big Ten K. light like about a quarter of a mile behind us and that parched crackle doubt you know desert floors nighttime. It was freezing it. Was You know in the daytime. It was hot but at night and Salmon smartly told me because I was driving up to Baker. Which is you know a few hours out of La Right before you hit vegas shooting out of the desert and Sammons said. Take your winter coat you know. Take your down coats from Canada and Oh Yeah Okay. Good cold so it was standing out. It was the first very first frame. I shot with this white forty millimeter Lens. Gannon Lens And I held the camera down so low so you just see the outline of my body and it was in. My legs were stretched out and shot this picture in my late. You know. It's it's weird ass. Shadow zoomed leagues in this little tiny body and the moon was right like in the perfect spot. But then I took my My Four Hundred Lens and shot the moon got my my mono pod shot the moon and then put the two together so the moon looks much bigger on the picture but you know in my head. I'm going I didn't really manipulate it. I just used to different photos but this is how the pictures started out so that was one of the first photos of this and I talk. It's called Jack Lands on the Moon. So Jack is the scared the DJ A. K. Isn't the name of this character. That's she's a Cyber Messenger that has to do all these things. At one point. She has to take care of this kid. And it's all yeah and she ends up taking him to all these different planets so I would shoot these weird ass pictures and sometimes make them a little weirder a little stranger. I think I sent you a cop. One is called. Does this come in. This is three. I was in a in a dressing room at a place and my sister was standing in the dressing room and we were these slouch socks from the eighties. So she's standing there and it was just funny the way it was. You know all these ladies legs you just see below the thing and I just took one of her feet. I made a third foot. There's like these three legs. So it's all part of this weird. Ask Journey that this character does and I just had so much fun creating that over the I still haven't put the book together but I've got thousands of big go with this story and you know that to me was the it's it's you. Learn the thing. That picture is worth a thousand words. It's one of those things you hear. It was a kid and to me. It's true it's that that moment in time that makes you think and you're going my seen what I think I'm saying or there's even the moment in Ben Stiller's it's the Thurbers store movie that he did where. Sean Penn plays a photographer and name the move of Walter. Mitty ultimate right so you know. And he's waiting for that moment where the snow cats gonNA come out and you think you know we were waiting in. It's so rare that it happens and finally the snow cat comes out and he doesn't shoot the picture. You know like Walter. Mitty goes well. Why didn't you shoot depiction? Sometimes it just like the look in. Sometimes I'd just like to have that moment and it's your moment you know in my head. I remember. I've had so many of those going. God I wish I had my camera or widened. Take the picture where I have the Cameron. I didn't take the big German and you and you do have that moment where it's at special to you. I was flying from the United States to Germany and there was a. I opened up the windows nights. It was a night flight news at all across the polls and I remember lifting. Everybody's quiet. The plane is dark and I lift. I woke up and I lifted up the shades and there was a prison that went the entire horizon of the. You know the entire rise. I wasn't just like spot. It was all the way across and I went to the. Oh God. Where's my cameron? And I wanted to wake up everybody. This look at this and you and you just sit there and you go in awe and then you know you're flying and finally a drift away and you're going I just see that that was that moment for me. I wish I'd had a day. I'm photograph because I want to be there. You want to be the soon as I put a camera and I love photography as soon as I put a camera to my eyes. It's already s heart. Sounds like though that humor's in in kind of the base of a lot of what? Oh Yeah seems taking pictures of you know when people say. Can you picture a head shot of me? You know? I like making them. Look Pretty. And that's the other thing. People always a little concerned about headshots. And they're like I sometimes people like Overdo the retouching and I make a point of saying look. I do retouched pictures but I don't re- touch them to the point where you know. You look like you've had shot but I say you I do do some retouching because there's a big difference between looking at somebody. Three dimensional only because you're is always traveling. They're always moving. There's a moment see. You're never locked in that. In that one moment I said whereas when you're on in the two-dimensional form in your flattened out like that no matter how great your lenses you do WanNa touch up this a little bit because otherwise it's distracting and you don't look that harsh to demand in three dimensions as you do. We don't see every pore when we're just in conversation you don't see that stuff so you know I so I do retouched but you know I go but minimally and people go. Oh my God look I I well. I mean you didn't do anything we don't we don't call it anything retouching. There's a series. I was reading about called. GimMe Your goofiest. And ultimately that is going to be fundraiser. These are all these wonderful ideas. Because when you're a photographer and if you don't have an assignment you know these are the things you end up thinking all right. I'm going to do this. Make some book you know. There's always a coffee table book in your head or four or five of those and of course you know coffee table books really. Don't really sell that much so you really don't have anything of coffee with no one's ever explained that to coke or sprite has a table. Could it be fair but No I started again was. This friend was a comedian. She gave me this weird as look and I just shot the picture. We wept laughing going. Oh my God I said this is your new headshot. It was the joke. And you know you just like. I mean every time we would look at this big we would the tears would start running and I said I should do a book so I did a photo show which was called. GimMe Your goofiest and I got not just celebrities but people on the street I said. GimMe Your Gouveia's mayor before I leave. I'm going to get all of you guys were that. GimMe Your dumbest. Look I mean really. What's The dumbest stupidest funny goofy is look you can possibly do? We have no trouble with and I would shoot that picture and then this show. I think I had like sixty shots in the show and everybody went. That's you know it's kind of brilliant. I mean I'm sure lots of people have done but Johnny Depp gamy shots and there's there's quite a few celebrities that I said. Yeah here you go what do I care more? Billions this idea of owning it and you were speaking about upper artsy and that's a bit prior to today's Day and age where everything's out there and this idea privacy. We're not. We're we're dealing with a new idea privacy. Do you know privacy. You got a cell phone. You Lost Your Privacy. But do you you just kind of brush off bad photos of you in the end. I I. There's been so many I'm sixty five. Now there's plenty of bad photos and you just now like who cares. I've always had a sensibility of the pratfalls downfalls of being in this entertainment industry and I've never taken it personally every once in a while. You know if you don't get a party when one. Why didn't I act my aunt's offer that but then you know it's onto the next and then usually find out some years down the line. There's a reason why you say oh I could live with that. I find often times and I've been kicking the button. I'm saying why may not look like. Oh okay. That was actually good. Thank you God. Yes maybe one or two last questions. World gotTA MAKE SPAGHETTI SAUCE I for Harry at five. He lives here in the city. Actually that was one of my questions. All right then you only have one more you. Two are but Of all the photos of your father and you know there's so many obviously for work but civil rights you know marches. And He's been with. Everybody is anything that you know is on the wall at your house. What stands out. What's your favorite phone him? A great picture. And it's it's on the news all the time where he's laughing with Martin Luther King. There's a there's a famous. I don't even know what the photographer is. But you know every time around Martin. Luther King's birthday or Harry Birthday. Somehow that picture reemerges in the finds its way back into the into the press. And it's it was just one of those special moments that you kinda remember you know even if you were in the room at that time but knowing how friendly they were best friends a lot of people think well you know no no really they were best friends and the idea that your best friend is taken away so drastically like that but you have that moment that you know that thousand word moment. That just happened at that moment that somebody captured and the you know you can save that forever. You can save that forever. So that picture of him. I'm trying to think this you know we have a Lotta pictures. Show the whole and Harry's. Oh God really rang Allen Dan but now we have. There's you know. And then Goulash shot pictures like I said pictures of Dad and meet for Essence magazine. That was really pretty good we. We both had our makeup on their hairpieces and placing really pretty and going. Oh God yeah. That's kind of a special moment but no there's lots of good pictures and about yourself any folks there. Well there's a picture that Richard Shot Richard avalon shot and it was a VO covered. The actual is my favorite though cover. Where it's big smile and having these multi colored Pajama Pajamas on and what happened. Was We got that shot and earn? We're thinking oh great. He came over. This is I think maybe the the four third or fourth magazine so I I was comfortable with Richard Evelyn. I also had a crush on what it came over and he bit my cheek like when I thought he was coming for. You know like what's he doing getting close? Oh my God. This is great man came over that my cheek and I don't know if you shot. The picture of his assistant shot the big but he then sent that picture to me so I have that picture saying my husband's office I'll text. That didn't want to get to where he knows that moment. Mouth Wide Open data showing and he's like biting my cheek and it was like. That's that's one of those moments where you're going. Oh my God I have a crush like eating my face and cut face. I WANNA talk about. What's what's new. What's I might. Yeah well you know. I'm I'm getting ready. We're we're into a pre development because we're seeing if we can get funded but it's going to be Bob Marley's it was just Bob Marley seventy fifth birthday. I met Sadullah and Roe were two of his eight million children but they run the they were in the founded the Bob Marley estate and she wanted to do something exciting next year and she is pitched to a producer the idea of getting five people five or six people to shoot short movies. I think forty two minutes so it's there long but there. I think forty two minutes and under movies that are inspired by Bob's music. So the guy that's putting that together is a friend of mine. Said come in and pitch row and Sadullah your ideas which song be one. I've always wanted to shoot a series about people of Color. That were cowboys. Cowboys and cowgirls was called Gaba folks color and to me. It was supposed to be a series and it was a movie. It was in development at showtime. He's like Oh my God like thirty years. I wanted to do this but now suddenly I had the opportunity to shoot I. I want to buffalo soldier and he went. Oh great the one song that we don't have the right so sure enough. They said Yeah. I think we can get the rights of that coming in pitch and I went. I went all right and I had a harmonica learn how to play a buffalo through the night before on my mind really rough not a good version of it but And I said I WANNA do this but I wanna make it about Kathy Williams and I said who changed her name to William Kathy and was the only female buffalo soldier at the turn nine thousand nine hundred and when I pitched this idea to sell and I said you know the other thing is all the books that you've read about as house. He was so excited to be a soldier and she cut her. Aaron joined marched ten. Was You know all about it? I said you know that. That's just not true. I said she was contraband of war which meant she was a slave when they were freeing the slaves. They actually took a lot of the slaves to come work for them for the Union army's and so they had to do dishes and still wash clothing and my guess is that she probably ran away or killed a soldier and ended up putting on the uniform to hide. So that's my story and I'm sticking to it and just went. I think that's brilliant. Yeah let's do that if we can do that. So that's some now. Of course I went. What the hell am I going to shoot this? Now that I'm actually GonNa get this movie. Sometimes you get what you got but So yeah I'm also on Tyler Perry's sisters I forgot. That's that's something I just did six episodes of that where I play a ex marine sharpshooter with PTSD. One of the sisters as my daughter. And I smoked pot and ride a Harley and had blond dreads. Yep so where's the challenge? Show so can you hear It was very enlightening. it's interesting to hear your your your story your path and where you went. We didn't go if you are not subscribing to our podcast. All you have to do is head. On over to apple podcast Google podcast stitcher overcast or spotify and sign up. And you could always find this on the bean edge explorer website as well as the bean h photography podcast facebook group. My name is Alan Whites and on behalf of John Harrison Jason tables. Thank you so much for tuning in to D- Day.

Nina Blanchard Harry Richard Shot Richard avalon director Samsung Sherry Sam Carnegie Mellon Martin Luther King essence magazine Sherry Harper Harry Belafonte Us Greg Gorman Lycos Richard Avedon Kodak
Fashion & Film, Part II

Dressed: The History of Fashion

44:52 min | 1 year ago

Fashion & Film, Part II

"Twenty seven club is a new podcast about famous musicians who died prematurely. In sometimes mysteriously at the age of twenty seven. This podcast is hosted by me. Jake Brennan Creator and host of the hit music and true crime. Podcast disgrace that season one features twelve episodes in the life and Death Jimi Hendrix? The Twenty Seven Club contains adult content and explicit language. You can listen to the twenty seven club on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Every PODCAST WATCH OUT FOR YEARS. Trust the history of fashion production of iheartradio and Ooh over seven billion people in the world. We all have one thing in common every day. We all get dressed weapon to trust the history of fashion a podcast. We explore the WHO. What when of why we wear. We are fashion historians and your host April Callaghan and Cassidy Sacree. Welcome dress listeners. To part two of our series on the history of fashion and film we found this topic particularly fitting for the launch of season. Three it because of course we are currently in the midst of international fashion week. Yes and last week. We talked about the origins of the semi-chaotic relationship between fashion and Hollywood film. But we only got into the nineteen thirties so today. We're moving out of the thirties and into the nineteen forties. Which of course takes US straight into World War Two and on the show? We've talked a lot about fashion and war as it relates to Europe during World War One and World War Two but less so about the relationship fashion and war in America and it's actually incredibly fascinating because throughout the nineteen thirties. America's changing perception of their homegrown talent was reflected in Ariz- leading fashion magazines. Such as Vogue and Harper's bazaar at both of those magazines began to feature American fashion designers more and more throughout the decade. Elizabeth Haase reflected on this transitory period in American fashion in her book. Fashion is spinach which was published in nineteen thirty eight and in it. She writes quote in the late twenties ninety percent of the drawings and photographs. Where the work? A prison couturiers and. She's talking about Vogue and Harper's bazaar and then she says many pages and both magazines are now devoted to close created in America for American Life. The outbreak of World War Two and nineteen thirty nine mark significant shift in the fate of American designers who having continued to operate in the shadow of Paris throughout the nineteen thirties. Were suddenly left to stand all on their own and during the German occupation of Paris from June nineteen forty to August nineteen forty four. Many of the leading French couture houses were forced to close and those that did remain open did so under severely limited operations and some pretty severe restrictions as well right and for those of our listeners. Who might not have heard? April actually did a fantastic interview on stuff. You Mr History class which we featured a couple months ago so check it out if you want to learn more about fashion world war two so for the French fashion industry. This meant that communication with America during World War Two. It meant that one of their most important export markets was almost entirely broken and in one thousand nine hundred one after American designers and manufacturers presented promising fall and spring collections New York Times fashion journalist Virginia Pope well. She declared Murck City to be the fashion center of the world and AIRCON designers may have come into their own during the war but they did so under restriction and regulation beginning in nineteen forty two American fashion designers had to grapple with restrictions imposed by regulation l eighty five which were government imposed sanctions at severely limited. Just what designers could and could not produce the purpose of l. eighty-five was to conserve materials. Needed for the war effort and this included fabrics such as silk cotton wool. Leather Rubber Nylon. So you know pretty much. Every material that you need to make clothing and footwear and the regulations thus restricted just. How much material could be used in the making of new garments so we had campaign such as make-do-and-mend which encouraged people to avoid shopping altogether by mending their old clothes. Something we of course support very much today. L. eighty-five essentially challenge the very nature of the fashion industry itself. As we all know depends on the production of new seasonal clothing styles to stimulate consumerism and as we establish last episode Hollywood films while they were actively complacent and encouraging fashion consumption throughout the nineteen thirties and costume designers like their fashion designer. Counterparts were not exempt from L. Eighty five regulations during the war in an eighteen. Forty four article in the New York Times renowned Hollywood costume designer. Edith head called L. Eighty five quote. The greatest boone ever came to fashion designers in Hollywood so it would appear casts that in the nineteen forties costume designers still considered themselves as fashion designers. And she goes on to say about eighty-five quote. It vanished super luxury and brought us all down to Earth. Today we create sensible styles for women the kind that they can actually wear and she goes on to say how. Well I remember the day when we would swirl Fox skins around the hem of a secretary address or wipe satin uniform on a trained nurse. Now we hold to stark realism and by this time had been the head designer at paramount. For seven years she had taken over for her predecessor. Travis Banton in nineteen thirty seven and head like baton began her career in film working with Howard greer in the nineteen twenties as a costume illustrator before climbing the ranks and indeed head is certainly one of the most prolific and fame designers from the Hollywood golden age. Numerous books have been written about this prolific designer who April has eight Academy Awards for best costume design and wait for it. She has four hundred and forty four credits. On that's intense. She worked for almost sixty years in the film industry so she had an incredible career her first credit it dates to nineteen twenty five and her last film is dead. Men Don't wear plaid with Steve Martin. That released after her death in nineteen eighty two so she died in one thousand nine hundred. One at the age of eighty. Three head is quoted and Margaret Bailey's nineteen eighty-two book those Glorious Glamour Years as saying quote. I do not consider a motion picture costume designer necessarily a fashion creator because we do the script tells us to if we do a period piece then we recreate fashion. That was done before. And if we have a character role we do character close. It is only by the accident of a script that calls for fashion an actress that can wear fashion that some of the beautiful clothes will emerge. I don't consider myself a designer in the sense of fashion designer. I am a motion picture costume designer. So just how did head go from identifying as a fashion designer in Hollywood and the nineteen forties to firmly distinguishing herself as a costume designer by the end of her career? I love this answer. You pro because it actually lies with the advent of yours new-look which is a little unexpected as many of us know nineteen forty seven witnessed this dramatic and sudden change in fashion. Thanks to the unprecedented success of Christiane Yours Premier collection and he introduced dresses with nipped in ways. Those padded hips and full long skirts and they stood in direct contrast to the war regulated fashions of years prior which is why so many people loved them. Unfortunately for the many films released the year that this change took place. The costumes were immediately glaringly out of fashion again. Dino Dior's new look was significant reminder. That though film cost you may be perceived and interpreted as fashion it will never be able to truly contend with the whims and follies of contemporary trends. And Edith. Had designed costumes for eleven films that were released in nineteen forty seven so to say that she was affected is a bit of an understatement. Here and looking on this period for the book. Edith head's Hollywood edith reflected quote. I learned my lesson. The hard way just offered Dior brought out the new look every film I had done in the past few months. Looked like something from the bread lines with each screening. I vowed that I would never get caught by fashion trend again and became a confirmed fence sitter. Although despite her weariness of fashion trends did not keep her designs from apparently sparking them as was the case with address she designed for Elizabeth Taylor and a place in the sun which was a nineteen fifty film in a nineteen seventy-eight article for the American Film Journal. Edith wrote my dress for Elizabeth Taylor and a place in the sun was taken up by manufacturer of debutante Party dresses. Someone at paramount wants counted at a party thirty seven Elizabeth Taylor's dancing. All studio designers have created something that influences fashion. But a good costume designer. Shouldn't try to influence style though. Naturally he hopes to hit upon something that many people will like but fashion is a pretty powerful force cast and high fashion was going to make it into the film's Edith designed whether she liked it or not. Marin that after brief sponsor break. Hey guys. It's bobby bones host Bobby Jones show and I'm pretty much all sleep because I wake up with three o'clock in the morning a couple hours later. I get all my friends together. We get into a room and we do a radio show share our lives. We tell our stories. We try to find as much good in the world they possibly can and we look through the news of the day that you'll care about also your favorite country. Artists are always stopping by the hang out and share their lives and music to wake up with a bunch of my friends on ninety eight point. Seven W. MC Q. in Washington DC. Or wherever the rotates you on the iheartradio APP welcome back if our listeners have not yet guest at Edith had to contend with high fashion. Thanks to the relationship forged between two fashions greatest luminaries the Correa Uber. Dj Bond. She an actress. Audrey Hepburn this partnership between this legendary duo created some of the most memorable an iconic of all Hollywood fashion history moments. He might remember from our season one episode on Yvonne she that he and Audrey really formed this special lifelong friendship after they met in the nineteen fifties. And it's really one of those special bonds one of the most special bonds. I would argue in the history of fashion and film and one of the most important because it existed on and off the screen. She of course designed Audrey costumes for seven films including Sabrina. Funny face and of course breakfast at Tiffany's but while she she might have dressed audrey and her most iconic roles of her career the costume designer of all three of the paramount produced films. You just mentioned cast was actually credited. As being edith head and Jeeva she may have brought the cachet and high glamour of Paris couture to the films but it was head as the costume designer. Who's responsible for translating many of these designs to the screen and she also had the responsibility of creating audrey less. Glamorous looks as well as those of the supporting cast you know kind of creating the overall look of the film and and despite her quote unquote on the fence. Status Edith is responsible for some fabulous creations herself. The film funny face is a particular interest for this episode topic. Because it was. The film itself was about fashion photographer. Dick Avery who was played by Fred Astaire and based on the famed fashion photographer Richard Avedon on an as well the plot goes on to detail the discovery and making a fashion model Joe Stockton. Who was played by? Hepburn and there are so many wonderful fashion moments in this film of. You have not seen it. You definitely want to check it out including guest appearances by fashion models to vima and Suzy Parker who appear in this number. Think pink which you can find on YouTube It's saying by fashion magazine Editor Maggie Prescott. Who's played by Kay Thompson? Who DECLARES BANISH? The black burn the blue and bury the Beige. From now on girls. Think pink before the song. It's really fun but as Audrey was not present in the scene Edith head Notch Yvonne. She who is responsible for designing the looks for the lead and supporting cast which includes everything from pink bathing suits to pink ball gowns youtube. Like I said this immediately will not be disappointed of course Jeevan. She was just one of many Oak Qataris who have worked in Hollywood In part one of the series we mentioned the work of Lucille imply and there were many many more so many in fact that film costume expert. Christopher laverty dedicated an entire book to the subject entitled Fashion in Film and he also has a fabulous blog which is closed on film Dot Com. You guys can pop over there and check that out. And of course in Nineteen thirty-one Coco. Chanel was lured to Hollywood by Sam Goldwyn of MGM with a million dollar contracts. Yeah and that's in nineteen thirty one dollars only to find out that Hollywood costume design was not really her thing. She did work on three films before leaving California Palmy days and tonight or never which are both from nineteen thirty one and also the nineteen thirty two film. The Greeks had a word for them. I think it's tonight or never. But she had a problem with Gloria Swanson because Swanson wasn't thin enough for her and Swanson insisted on wearing a girdle to slim fit. I mean this is the thirty talking bias. Cut like you know slim as you can possibly be but apparently Gloria was pregnant at that time and nobody knew about it but needless to say the two did not get along. Alyssa's caporale designed the costumes for Mae West in the nineteen. Thirty seven film. Everyday is a holiday as well. As a British Stars Margaret Lockwood and Anna Neagle in the nineteen thirty six films the beloved vagabond and limelight respectively and much later. She designed the costumes for the sultry. Siren ZSA GABOR. When she plays a role in the nineteen fifty two film. Milan Rouge which I actually have not seen yet. So I definitely have to check that out. I WANNA see that too. Yeah it looks pretty amazing. And her designs for For are not exactly historically accurate. But they are beautiful. There's one cherry red dress in particular that looks like it. Walk Straight out of a one thousand nine hundred eighty two fashion magazine. You know it kind of has that fifty silhouette and clings to Joshua's torso and it scopes around. Her breasts cinches her already tiny frame before curving around her padded hips to extend to the floor. So pretty amazing. Yeah all the makings of yours. New Look but made uniquely Schiaparelli by the addition of a huge floral. Bow On one shoulder and upper length gloves. Both in her signature shocking. Pink and the film's Costumes won an academy award for the Costume Designer Marcel Tests. Who was also responsible for the film's production design and a fun fact here Victoria had previously collaborated with SCAP on numerous occasions designing whimsical ads and bottles for her various perfumes. Another little tidbit Mae. West's famous. Hourglass silhouette is rumored to have been the inspiration behind that body shaped perfume. Bottle that she used for her set shocking and Christian Dior of course also had a profound influence on Hollywood's leading ladies dressing the likes of Marilyn Monroe Ingrid Bergman. Liz Taylor Grace Kelly Marlene Dietrich. According to Dior Dot Com for Alfred Hitchcock's nineteen fifty thriller. Stagefright Marlena actually had your specifically written into her contract and is rumored to have said of the film's producer no Dr No dietrich. I love that. Can we have that fit into our contracts I know? Dr We go under designed gowns for Myrna Loy and the nineteen fifty-six ambassador's daughter and Ava Gardner in the little hut the latter film was actually released in Nineteen fifty seven which sadly was the same year of yours. Untimely death and while legions of Hollywood costume designers were not by definition oak tree. As the costumes. A producer for film paralleled haute couture standards in many ways during the Hollywood golden age costumes for all the film's leading ladies were produced in house and the studios large costume departments much like a couture garment. These costumes were custom-made for them. Designed down to the most meticulous tiny little details and unrealized by skilled technicians. Sometimes taking hundreds of hours to create an article written for good housekeeping in nineteen fifty. Nine Edith head writes about. How a single fitting with Marlene Dietrich or Audrey Hepburn could take as long as ten hours and you know. These women were very intensely. Committed to working with head to get their their costumes. Just right and boy have times changed. Because for instance when I design today for a film or TV show that's set in the present day I shop as do most of our contemporaries. We just go out and buy it at the store or online occasionally you build but now that is really the exception not the rule if you think of TV shows like sex in the city the ladies definitely wore some custom pieces but I would wager that. The majority were purchased or on loan from fashion houses but that does not in any way diminish. Hatfield genius as a costume designer. I actually think it exemplifies it because she you can tell she put so much care into building each of these women's distinct characters building it around the clothing they wore and the same can be said of course for her work in the Devil Wears Prada so just. How did we go for made to order costumes? Being the standard in design to the dominance of ready to wear like we have today. The answer is fashion and the changing fashion industry listeners. You might remember. From past episodes at the nineteen sixties saw the rise of ready to wear and that ultimately replaced haute couture as the progenitor of high fashion by the Nineteen Seventy S. Well it's no coincidence that the decline of the haute couture industry was also a parallel by that of the Hollywood Studio System. Which by the end of the nineteen sixties was all but gone time. We're changing right. And the decline of the Hollywood studio system can be traced all the way back to nineteen forty eight when the verdict was handed down in what became known as the Hollywood Anti Trust case so this was a case between the United States government and paramount pictures and the Supreme Court actually ruled in favor of the United States government and they handed out a ruling that essentially made vertical integration. Which we talked about in part one you may remember him at the studio's really controlled everything about a film from its stars and crude to its production and distribution so they owned movie theaters all across the country and that became illegal and effectively marked the beginning of the end of the Hollywood studio system. The nineteen sixties brought a new emphasis on store-bought clothing and this coupled with the breakdown of the studio system and decreasing film budgets made the extensive caution departments of the various studios. And thus the legions of on-staff costumers assistance DRAPER'S SPECIALTY TECHNICIANS. You know these roles are becoming increasingly obsolete. Many in-studio departments shut down entirely and with future of fashion and film design in ready to wear garments custom-made wardrobes were largely left a period films. And it is. Thanks to this seismic shift that we have the institutionalization of the freelance costume designer and crew. So while the big studios has had occasionally worked with freelance designers in the past beginning in the nineteen sixties more and more serious began to contract in costume designers and their entire departments on a show by show basis rather than having them all on staff. So this is still hell film and TV. Production is structured to this day. All the production crew on any given show are essentially independent contractors although most of us are part of guilds or unions The number of independent contractors in the sixties is paralleled by the rise of independent films. Which are films that are not connected to a studio so while these films operated on much smaller budgets they also had this unbridled freedom that never would have been allowed during the hays code days of Hollywood studio controlled Golden Age and Hayes Code was essentially a set of rules regulated filmmaking from the nineteen thirties all the way up until nineteen sixty eight when they were officially abandoned and these are the rules that prevented women from showing cleavage and belly buttons and also prevented stars like Chinese American actress. Anna May Wong from kissing her white co-stars so good riddance to those Hayes. Codes goodbye and we know the sixties was an incredibly exciting time all across the board. This also extended to experimentation in fashion and film. And we're going to hear more about it after a brief sponsor break. There's a city far away a fiction. Podcast the richest most powerful place on earth on an epic scale to a vast empire threatened by rebellion. Powders everything Pollard. Gives everything we have to get away from this place or we will die to. The truth makes us strong. Tuman Bay his artist. Andy History. And fantasy collide. I if you know many for creators Joan Scott Dryden and Mike Walker. The only thing I ask of you is total and complete loyalty now. The IHOP podcast network. Listen to all episodes of Tumor Bay Seasons One and two now for free on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts. So filmmakers of the nineteen sixties like their fashion designer counterparts pushed ultimately shattered long established boundaries and cinema and in many instances used the equally avant Garde Revolutionary Fashions of the era to redefine the genre dress listeners. I have two words for you. And that is Hakko robot. Yeah no other. Designer quite embodies the radical anything goes attitude and atmosphere the nineteen sixties more than the Spanish designer pokka robot whose designs really redefined fashion on every level like redefined. Even what could be clothing? He's famous quote unquote sewing with pliers and ribbon rocketed fashion into the future with his unconventional methods and materials. That included most famously plastic and metal. His most famous design plastic desk dresses constructed using Metal Rings Audrey Hepburn actually whereas one in the nineteen sixty seven film two for the road which has a lot of high fashion. And it's really cool. If you've not seen it I suggest it. Vogue did a feature on packer born the same year. Nineteen sixty seven and said quote. These are materials that have never been dared him fashion Paco. Rabanne air them. These are constructions that haven't been dreamed up. He's dreaming up them in this stunning four page spread captured by Richard Avedon. Ribons designs were worn by statuesque gladiator. Sandal wearing quote unquote gladiator girls? So tall. That vogues pages cannot even contain them and the photo spread is electric full of and movement just like ribons pieces which ranged from a short shimmering. Never still fantasy of an evening coat made entirely of gold speckled black plastic to the mini modern gladiator dress which is composed entirely of hinge aluminum squares and rectangles. So these don't actually look very comfortable. But they are quite fabulous. Rabbani's armored yet playful vision of the future. It was the inspiration for costumes in more than one movie of the period including one of my personal favorites the nineteen sixty six fringe arthouse flick Kiet Blue Polly. Magoo or who are you polly? Magoo which is directed by fashion photographer. William Klein and the film is a satire of the fashion industry. So kind of along the lines of Zoo lander but it really also simultaneously pays homage to the singular experimental period and fashion history which is the nineteen sixties. That's never really going to be repeated. the film stars when a client's favourite models. Dorothy McGowan and is a must see cold classic that includes many memorable movements by costume designer. Janine Kline the most widely circulated image from the film a photograph that captured seven models including Peggy MOFFITT and matching black and white op. Art Ensembles. That just so happen to match the sets wallpaper which is very fun the arguably the film's most standout seen a fashion show. Starring McGowan and Supermodel Donald Luna in. What is an obvious? Oh Masha the impracticality and ridiculousness of vence designs and in this scene The models. Cheyenne aluminum sheets. Ridiculous around their body to form a series of large geometric sculptures and they're so rigid and uncompromising that at one point McGowan cut and begins to bleed and quote will stop the bleeding and put some bass on it. The designer told her. Believe me with some base. You won't see it. Yes it's very fun so again. Trek out attitude ever-growing list Rabbani signs also served as inspiration for another Colt nineteen sixties favorite though one and the only barbarella one of my all time. Oh my gosh. It's so good. This is a one thousand nine hundred sixty eight SCIFI fantasy that's directed by Roger Vadim and it's based on a popular comic series by the same name and Stars. Roger's wife then wife Jane Fonda as the title character she sent into outer space on what turns into this sex fueled mission to save humanity from amount scientists. It's ridiculous but fabulous heitkamp hiking fans high camp. It's champion today. As feminist cult classic because Jane Fonda playing the strong female lead is really in charge of her sexuality and we do know ray-ban designed at least one of his costumes. There's a short green discovered bodysuit but his influences otherwise all over the costumes by the film's designer. Jocks Monterey as the work of her bonds contemporary and famed futurists. Okay Not Entree Correggio so if you not seen this film again added to your list. Yeah so Barbara. Rela is an example of fashion influencing film but the nineteen sixties films also influenced fashion back the other way perhaps none more so than Arthur Penn's nineteen sixty seven film. Bonnie and Clyde and well barbarella transported audiences into the future. Bonnie and Clyde took them back in history to the nineteen thirties. When the infamous real life crime lovers lived and died And that film's release occurred simultaneously with a nineteen thirty s revival in fashion. It's it's not really a coincidence And numerous sources credit the cinched waist and the side tilted berets featured in the pages of glamour and Seventeen magazine during this period to influence of the film Bonnie and Clyde and also especially attributing it to the film's Star herself model turned actress say dunaway. During a visit to London the year the film premiered fair remembered along. Carnaby street shop windows were already filled with mannequins draped with designs inspired by the film. A fashion photographer snapped at dozen shots of me. Walking along the street I was wearing a dark miniskirt. A belted sweater and Beret. A few days later a photo showed up in a story. About how the look was all the rage. No one including the photographer made the connection that I was Bonnie somebody. Somebody dropped the ball on that one but life magazine deemed body and Faye Dunaway. Of course fashions new darling and dedicated a five page fashion spread to her and the film's inspiration in nineteen sixty eight quote now. The fashion world's newest darling is stunning. Inspiration for a full blast return to thirty styles. Both here and abroad says the article and goes on to say though revivals have cropped up before it took the impact of the film to bring about a census that blends a softness and droopy fit in the nineteen thirties with swing and leading us in the nineteen sixties. And bodies you know Middle Midi. Length skirts were still being talked about in nineteen seventy when the high fashion editor John Fairchild of women's wear daily heralded the return of the Midi and has much publicized crusade against the mini skirt. He hated miniskirt. And now we're moving into the nineteen seventies where we have the nine hundred seventy four adaptation of F Scott Fitzgerald Nineteen Twenties. Seminal texts the great gatsby which is another period film. That is credited with influencing fashion. This is furthered by the common misconception. That fashion designer Ralph. Lauren was the costume designer. Something you know. He had an exactly tried to dissuade people of thinking. But Lauren was indeed responsible for executing many of the costumes for the film's leading men. Such as Robert Redford but the film costume designer at the only Aldridge who won an academy award for her work on this project insisted that she designed these costumes and Lauren actually executed them. So my guess is that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Yeah he said she said. Yeah right regardless. Lawrence involvement did undeniably inform. His own design aesthetic. He translated refined elegance of the nineteen twenties. Men's and women's wear seamlessly into his fashion collections. Produced around the time of the film's release. Nineteen seventy three nineteen seventy four and in fact one of his ads for his menswear line shows a man. Almost identical in both posed and dressed to a photograph of Robert Redford as Gatsby and printed on the hill of the film's debut. The fashion press immediately made this connection and often erroneously cited Lauren as the costume designer for the entire film. And of course this is a misconception. That kind of still continues to this day. Right and Lauren is mistakenly credited with designing the costumes. For another celebrated film from the Seventies. Woody Allen's Annie Hall which was released in Nineteen seventy eight Diane Keaton's charming appropriation of menswear was so largely imitated that the quote Unquote Annie Hall. Look became an identifiable trained in fashion and was even translated into children's wear everywhere. There's special excitement over the Anne. Hollick was something that women's wear daily observed in nineteen seventy eight but New York magazine wrote that the Anti hallock quote the lowering of a man's shirt. Best in jacket over pants or skirt has only popularized what designers like Ralph? Lauren have been doing for years. Although both Allen and Keaton's character's wore pieces of Ralph Lauren clothing he was not in any way involved in the design process nor did he apparently inform Annie's unique display of clothing and according to costume designer Ruth Morley the appeal of anti style? Was this relationship to a unique individuals style not the pretensions of high fashion and something that the designer expounded upon in an interview with Vogue magazine in Nineteen seventy nine. The look she says quote coincided with a general recycled put together. Eclectic style coming on ever. Since the gentle demise of the late sixties rich hippy close began to rush into old uniform army pants and Victoria and since it is not a designer dictated style anyone can gather at pieces from her closet or the neighborhood thrift shops and small New York boutiques like San Francisco and Jazz. Abell in the same article. Morley discuss how she morally inspired to create and he's look but according to what he allen and his ninety three autobiography he said if anyone deserves credit for the look it is Diane Keaton Annie. Hollick was the exact way Keaton dressed in real life. I use it on screen because she was a great natural stylist. Morley was often very much against Keaton's choices and wanted me to tell her not to wear such out there fashions. I opted to let Keane where what she wanted. But it is key in April. I think we can. Let's set the record straight once and for all because she wrote in her memoirs would he's direction was the same. Where what you want to wear. That was the first so I did. What what he said or rather. I stole what I wanted to wear it from the cool of women on the streets in Soho Annie's khaki pants vest and tie came from them and we cannot talk about fashion film. In the nineteen seventies without talking about blaxploitation new genre films that emerged during this time to champion black characters and communities as the heroes in their own stories and this was often done in action and fashion packed productions that remained icon it to this day. What are the biggest stars of the blaxploitation genre was actor? Richard Roundtree who happens to have begun his career as a model in the Ebony Fashion Fair which we did an episode on last. Season's you can check that out. But rountree is most famous for his role as a private detective. John Shaft in the seventies shaft trilogy we have nineteen seventy-one Shaft was followed in seventy two by shaft's big score and in seventy three shaft in Africa so John Shaft was the epitome of street chic. He had these impeccably tailored leather coats. Mohair TURTLENECKS TIGHT FITTING PANTS. And these were all custom made for roundtree and in a two thousand nineteen interview with New York. Post the costume designer. Joe revealed that despite the attention paid to clothing. They never set out to make a particularly fashionable film. He says the James Bond Movies had just started a few years earlier. So shaft was supposed to look great as that but more of the world that he comes from that shaft remains an iconic fashion to this day is perhaps not surprising when we consider the first shaft. Film's director the ever Dapper Gordon Parks and again we have already done an episode on Mr Parks and his prolific career. He was truly a renaissance man to the nth degree he was a bestselling novelist a memoir ist a gifted pianist a composer of Admiral journalist photographer and film director and he also had an eye for the CY to`real detail and elegance that he embodied in his own personal style and according to a Lisi. It has really parks who was responsible for shafts trademark leather jackets. Because he knew that they would you know? Just look fantastic on camera. And they do. And they do Roberts costumes in the films are still being referenced to this day for their influence on fashion the movies subsequent remakes which there have been many have put great pains in carrying on this legacy with careful attention to maintaining shafts signature style. So for the two thousand remake. For instance starring Samuel Jackson. There was a special partnership with Armani that gave costume designer with Carter Carte Blanche of the luxury brands offerings and caste. If we're GONNA talk about fashion and relation to blaxploitation films we have to talk about Diana Ross and one thousand nine hundred seventy five hit. Mahogany is not only Diana Ross Star in this rags to riches story of a struggling fashion designer. Tracy Chambers Ross herself was the film's costume designer. Which is incredible was just blew my mind. I know I literally text April and was like okay if I have to talk about one or if I have to see one blaxploitation film for the fashion. What should it be? She wrote back immediately. Mahogany and you're not lying. This was wrong. Only Ross's second ever film. The first being her critically acclaimed film. Debut actually has billie holiday in lady sings the Blues for which she received a best actress nomination by both the Oscars and the Golden Globe. She won the ladder. Mahogany is actually directed by Berry Gordy the third founder of Motown and the man who actually signed the supremes but Diana had gone solo in seventy a beef and bedecked. Ross was the cover star of Ebony. Magazine's October nineteen seventy five issue. Which ran a feature on the spectacular new film and Ross's role in the design process which included designing fifty outfits for the film quote ranging from Sportswear to Kapoor and personally supervised all operations from purchase of the special fabrics to coordination of colors to beating and all the other finishing techniques. And and we should mention here cast that while Cross Design. Many of the caution to the film she did not design them all My guess would be that the rest of the film's costumes of which there were. Many were left up her right hand. Susan Gertz men who is actually credited as the film's wardrobe supervisor and according to the same ebony article apparently Diana dreamed of being a fashion designer before she ever dreamed of being a singer but fate had different plan. She tells the magazine quote. The only opportunity I ever had in this direction was in my own personal style. When I was with the supremes I used to talk to the guys who designed our clothes and I tell them exactly what I thought. We should wear after reading the script for the film. She says Chea- when it'd be something if I could design the clothes and meeting. This was not an easy. Sell to Gordy. Who apparently was her ex lover. So but he eventually conceded so maybe that has something to do with power female persuasion. Yes the costumes. In the film really ranged from the outlandish to the spectacular Ross admittedly took a lot of Japanese inspiration For her designs. Sometimes they were not exactly the most successful translation they can sometimes feel a little exaggerated a tad garish. For instance at one point she prays down a runway where a Bright Orange Kimono inspired gown emblazoned. Down the front with a Jain Ormuz Blue Dragon. Yeah it's not very subtle but at their successful hurt. Her gowns can be quite stunning and they feel instantly modern fusing contemporary fashion with Hollywood glamour. I'm thinking particularly of this rich. Purple ones lead body skimming floor links Jersey number. That's paired with a giant matching muff. And it's actually what she's wearing when Shaam pushes her into the foul enduring. That fashion shoot montage. Which if you have to watch one aspect of the film it is this fashion shoot montage. She's absolutely studying. Do you have a favorite costume from April? You know one of the things that always comes to my mind immediately when I think about. Mahogany is her fabulous hats. She wears hats in the film. And they're very like seventies groovy. Yeah and you can actually now that I've seen the movie I can see where dreamgirls took a lot of inspiration from this movie. Like with the shots and like how she looks. It was really Kinda cool to make those connections so check it out guys so many fabulous fashion and film movies now so little time to watch them. All my suggestion is to start now. And don't stop. I actually got a Netflix. Dvd subscription. Just so. I could start watching these movies and stop paying a lot of money. Renting them on itunes. So it's been really fun. Actually April Mahogany is a perfect way to wrap up our coverage of one thousand nine hundred seventy s but this is the part in my writing of this quote unquote two part episode. That I realized that we still have four decades of fashion and film left to cover. I started writing about the nineteen eighties to discover to have continued this episode. All the way into the present day as was my which Lynton while we would have been here for at least another hour yes with some forty years of momentous events films and partnerships still to cover fashion and film has now officially become a three part episode very first three part episode in the history of address so that being said dresses nurse. This was a necessary but unexpected development and with so many fascinating topics and interviews already lined up for this season. We're going to wait for a bit to air part three because we have some episodes coming up that need to air at a certain time. Exactly so apologies for that. But it's actually just fine for me because honestly I've ended up like I said watching a ton of movies and preparations for these episodes. And this gives me a little more time to revisit the fascinating films and fashions that helped define my own personal sense of style growing up and in the meantime dressed listeners. This gives you all a chance to write to us and tell us about what you consider some of the best fashion film moments from the past forty years. I think that does it for us today. Dress listeners in preparation for part three may you all consider the legacy of fashion and film in your closet. Next time you get dressed. We are very excited for you to end Thursday for our first ever edition of fashion history. Now which is our new mini series. It's going to be alternating weekly with our fashion history mysteries so being an article. We think you should read or an exhibition. We think you should see each episode. We'll catch you up on the latest news happening in fashion history today as you have any fashion history now news. We love hearing from you. So if you would like to email us you can do so addressed iheartmedia dot com. You can also direct messages on instagram at dressed underscore podcast where you will find images accompanying each week at this is also our twitter handle dressed underscore podcast and you can follow us on facebook address. Podcast without the underscore for additional readings for each week's episode. Check out our show notes in episode description of your podcast platform and as always special thanks to our producers Casey peak. I'm holly fry and everyone else iheartradio. Who makes this show possible? Each and every week more address Thursday dress. The history of fashion is a production of I heart radio for podcasts from iheartmedia visit the iheartradio. App Apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows this is Danny Shapiro host of the hit. Podcast family's secrets. I hope you'll join us for some incredible conversations about family identity and what happens to both when the secrets that have been kept from us and the secrets we keep finally come to light? Listen and subscribe on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts available now from Iheart a new series presented by t mobile for business. The restless ones join me. Jonathan Strickland as I explore the coming technological revolution with the restless business leaders who stand right on the cutting edge. They know there is a better way to get things done and they are ready. Curious excited for the next technological innovation to unlock their vision of the future in each episode. We'll learn more from the restless ones themselves and dive deep into how the five G. Revolution could enable their teams to thrive. The restless ones is now available on the iheartradio APP. Or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Hollywood Edith head Audrey Hepburn YEARS Nineteen Seventy apple Ralph Lauren Paris New York Times paramount Vogue US Richard Avedon Twenty Seven Club Ebony Fashion Fair Jane Fonda Jimi Hendrix Mahogany producer America
FHM #31: The Cyclical Nature of Fashion

Dressed: The History of Fashion

20:22 min | 1 year ago

FHM #31: The Cyclical Nature of Fashion

"We are living in complicated times. I'm seventy rule. MSNBC ANCHOR NBC News Correspondent and in my new podcast modern rules. I'm going to be spending time unpacking packing. Some of the hairiest of today's top decided. I was going to be a survivor. Survivor fights back aboard. They want new. It's America listening subscribed to minute podcast modern rules on apple podcast the iheartradio APP wherever you get your podcast just the history of fashion is a production of Iheartradio over seven seven billion people in the world. We all have one thing in common every day. We all get dressed. Welcome to dressed the history of fashion a podcast where we explore the WHO what when of why we wear we are fashion storms and your hosts April Callaghan Cassidy Zachary welcome to the show. There's Day eight which means it's time for another fashion history mystery edition of dressed which we love but before we delve into today's topic we just wanted to remind all of our New York City listeners listeners that next week on Thursday September nineteenth we are going to be doing a live episode of trust at Bard. Yes the Bard Graduate Center. We should specify pacify perhaps and we're going to be joined by scholars. Margaret Darrow and season one guest Dr Cates Drostan and a panel discussion fashion anxiety in society in Gender in relation to their current exhibition French fashion women and the first World War and cast and I actually had the pleasure of seeing this this exhibit when it debuted in Paris a couple years ago back now cast Gera- three years ago so we're very excited to see this new incarnation which which is gonNa be on view until January here. They have lots of fun no things that they've added to this exhibition so many very cool things from an era that you and I both love love and you can get your tickets by heading over to. WWW dot p. g. c. dot bar dot. Edu Slash events to join us next week and speaking of exhibitions April you just had the pleasure of attending the opening of another must see fashion exhibition this week. He toss a little bit about fit's Paris capital of fashion. Shen yes so the opening was this past Thursday evening so approximately a week ago and it was so packed. I didn't even get to to read all the labels because I'm one of those people that goes to an exhibition every every single thing so you better bet that I will. We'll be visiting again. The entire show is chock full of some of the most supreme pieces of Paris fashion. You really all should go see it for yourself if you can but a couple of my favorite pieces well one of them was George dress that was featured in Richard Avedon series of fashion photographs of Davina with the elephants. Yes yeah I had never seen an actual address in person and in this shoot there's a couple different your dresses addresses that were used but this particular one was the long sleeved black dress with a white satin sash and both just below the bust and it is truly truly exquisite and although it's from the house at your it's believed to actually have been designed by the very young. Yves Saint Rot who was his assistant at the time so that was very cool and then another one of my favorites was actually a film costume. It's this sumptuous Black Velvet Robe La Francaise with gold embellishment and sequence that was created for the nineteen thirty eight film Rian to Annette and it was designed by none other than the famed Hollywood designer Adrian Adrian who we keep saying we're going to episode on and we promised to because he's incredible yes and so the show up and like we said until January twenty twenty any so stop by the museum at fit anytime Tuesday through Saturday afternoon it's always free always free and I am excited to see the exhibition ambition next week so to today's fashion history mystery while he comes to us from a listener Adrian who running back Eh Adrian to us and said growing up. I always heard the saying fashion is cyclical and have witnessed certain trends that made a comeback such as ripped jeans high waisted pants and chokers. Do you agree with the statement. If so which trends would you love to see make a comeback and which ones would you say are about to make comebacks in the near future. That is a great question Adrian. Yes it is and I agree. Fashion is absolutely cyclical. The fashion industry is really built. Upon this the idea of change you know what is new is soon old so on and so forth it just keeps going round and round and fashions ability to keep inventing and reinventing thing itself is what helps keep this chain of production going and fashion never changed. I mean what would we have to buy. NEW CLOTHES RIGHT CASTS SUSPEND MONEY. This is all part of capitalism friends of course and capitalism is just one reason fashion changes of course as we have seen throughout history fashion in trends can originate inside and outside the industry itself you just look at the influence of US street style on eighteen sixties fashion for instance but you can only have so many new ideas right so with thousands of years of wearing clothing to contest with it is perhaps not surprising that fashion repeats itself especially especially in today's Day and age where any designer is hard-pressed to not in some way or another repeat what someone else has already done in the past as accounts like at Diet Product. an act cash and copy are all about pointing on instagram yeah but repeating fashion is not necessarily all about copying or knocking taking off fashion it can also speak to any number of political social economical and cultural factors that influence what we put on our bodies and how the mass adoption certain types of garments accessories or the way that we style or where are closed makes it quote unquote trend and well cast and certainly not fashion forecasters we have never claimed to be. We both agree that an Adrian presented us with a really fun opportunity to talk about some of our favorite fashion fashion trends from history and what we would like to see come back and also the trends that well. We would be very happy to never ever see again yeah. So what am I favor. It trends in fashion. History is actually the decorated poofs of eighteenth century France. This was actually one of the very first episodes we did address the fashions worn at the court of Queen Marie Antoinette and King Louis the sixteenth and that episode included discussion about these elaborate wigs and up dues the decoration one of which reflect any number of trends that could change on the daily so you have had pieces covered in decorations that could reflect anything from various military battles you you know to entire fruit baskets. I'm pretty certain that this is you know sort of intense. Spectacle fashion might not find as many willing participants in today's Today's modern age as in the course of eighteenth century France but it was certainly be fun if it did yeah. I WanNa know what happened to those fruits after they got done wearing them like they eat them. They get thrown out so poofs. Definitely were fun trend for sure but I mean think about out living in New York City. Where would you store all your wigs. You'd have to have a whole separate room where I'm sure there are plenty of drag Queens here in New York that do I. I know that's very true. It's it's modern incarnation yet but I think I have to say. I've been looking at a lot of fashion magazines from the nineteen seventy I do use castrol late seventies and early eighties lately and I vote that we bring back the look of disco because this is one of my favorite time period reads think those Slinky Jersey v-neck dresses that are like all the way down to their and Chunky high hills feathered hair her in the period of makeup really very specific. There were lots of color at the is in the lip again one of my all time favorite periods think Bianca Jagger think uncall- Stan thinks studio fifty four yes so let's see one fashion accessory that I would love to make a comeback is the shadowing we already did the history mystery episode on this accessory earlier in the season but I think they are too fabulous to not come back into ladies and gentlemen's Wardrobe so I mean purses are just just so cumbersome and why not wear everything you could possibly need on your waist. Also this is why I am in love with the recent trend for fanny packs that is definitely one trend that I think will always be in and out of fashion for sure and I'm. I'm glad that you mentioned the chatelaine which is kind of like this obscure. I don't know accessory jewelry type object to of. I think I would like to see come back. Actually also obscure jewelry objects I would love to see dress clips comeback and for anybody who doesn't know dress clips were almost like little broaches except they were they were actually clips. I think about like clip on airings and they were very popular during the nineteen thirties in the nineteen forties and you just clip them around your neck line almost like a little broach so those are very fun and another one which is days all the way back to the Victorian era where skirt razors cast you know about these right yeah. I was in my head. I was thinking is she. GonNa mention skirt razors because it's kind of the same concept yeah yeah for sure so they were kind of clips where you could lower and raise the head of your skirt depending on where you're going and frequently they were worn during the day especially when women are outside walking around around the dusty dirty streets but some of them were quite decorative this quasi practical accessory but also a decorative. Greta form of jewelry of sorts. Yes they're very very cool. We should actually try to post pictures. If we have any so my next on let's see I don't know if you can call this a trend but I I am a huge fan of the emergence of more and more designer's going to up cycling and recycling to create their garments two of my favorite companies these include neo threads and by Eric and I just had the pleasure actually of seeing ems collection just last month at the Santa Fe Indian market annual fashion showcase of of indigenous designers. Stay tuned. We're going to have an episode on that coming up but her clothes are all made to order and her Brooklyn Studio and the company's website confirms that they're quote strict on our minimal waste policy and are always trying to find ways to reinvent leftovers and scrap material and turn them into fabulous fashions so very cool business concept concept and really really cool designs and neo threats is the brainchild of Sara Gonzalez whose company is dedicated to the transformation of discarded clothing into fresh one of a kind hind pieces their motto schoolgirls care and I could not agree more. Both of these companies are amazing and up cycling. Just might be the future of fashion. Russian and I really hope so well funny that you mention that because I would like to talk about FAB scrap. Who Do you know about FAB scrap. I do not Oh okay well. Let me tell you so fab. Scrap is not for profit. That's here in New York City. They have two different locations. There's one in Manhattan and there's also one in Brooklyn and they also have an online presence at FAB scrap dot org so that's F. A. B. S. C. R. A. P. and what they do is so cool. Basically they will go around two locations here in the garment district or other design studios in New York City and they'll pick up your leftover fabric and Dan they have a couple of different warehouses where everything gets sorted and then you can actually go purchase fabric for extremely low costs which is Richard really really neat and some of the designers and manufacturers that donate their scraps to FAB scrap include Marc Jacobs Oscar de la Renta Badgley Miss Ah Carolina Herrera so these are like you know high quality textiles that you can buy and you can also buy online and they will ship them to you so for all all of your listeners out there who so checkout FAB scrap dot org and they're also always looking for volunteers to help with the sorting process and if you volunteer for three hours you automatically get five pounds of free fabric and after that it's only three dollars a pound so stocking go oh and also they're not for profit so if you like what they're doing I'm sure they would love to receive your monetary donation as well. Yes renew reuse recycle cycle where all about it so cool and so many companies are just a few of the many many companies that have kind of jumped on the environmentally friendly Eco Sustainable Sustainable Up Cycling Bandwagon so let's keep that Wagon Rowley okay what else you want to never ever see. I don't know about you April but as a new PhD student on a college campus I have to say that athletes trend the athletes leaders trying to say is in full effect and I'm not kidding seventy five percent of the young women here where athletically to school and I'm GonNa have to blame the Kardashians for that one. I think although it's not just for the ladies I have to say my husband is also a convert to the idea of athletes daywear yeah yeah well. I mean I have to admit sometimes like if I have to run an errand like I'm just going to pop over the grocery store or something like that might wear leggings but I'm not going to wear them out to like a proper way hyperactivity but you're right cast it's all over the fit campus as well I walked out of my office the other day because somebody had knocked on my door and I answered it and the girl was wearing biker shorts and a crop sweatshirt sweatshirt and sneakers and right I was like Oh that's the exact outfit that I was trying. I would leave volleyball practice and hike and the fact that it's on the campus confirms that this is fashion adorable but I was just like Oh. I've warned that before a two one fashion trend that I have grown to have a new appreciation for but don't think it ever needs actually come into fashion is the G-go or leg-o-mutton sleeve which are wide poofy sleeves seen in the eighteen thirties the eighteen ninety s and on the runway the last few years and yes it is French and pronounce announce G-go but I actually prefer the literal fashion Gago especially when you say it in reference to American duchesses go go girl gang because of the alliteration and abby and Loren actually guests on the show earlier this season and we talked about there she go go girl gang of eighteen thirties wearing a friends and they actually recently published a video of the gang on scooters and fabulous Tsuguga immediately but as a trend not really a fan literally your sleeves are competing with your head for attention yeah and speaking of abby and Loren. I'm actually going to see them this week yeah they are coming to fit and and to do an event for our love your library series because they just published a new book on Eighteenth Century beauty which we've actually mentioned on the podcast already but the book teaches you how to do eighteenth century hair right which is incredible and they also have recipes in there for all the Pa- made and you know L. Hair powder and everything and so they're gonNA come to fit on Thursday and they are going to do a live demonstration on how to do eighteenth century here. Oh that sounds so fun you're going to have to post some pictures on our address to count yeah and I also think they're giving a lecture at the New York Arts Club on Friday which is free as part of their fashion Fridays Friday's of it. Oh cool so everybody check that out. Finally I really am a fan of the recent trend for high wasted jeans one and gene trend. I'm not a fan of its exact opposite the low rise we all were them. You know you did too. Oh Yeah I mean I was a teenager with a flat stomach wearing low rise jeans and the Ubiquitous Thong undergarment but new longer and I have a sneaking suspicion that they they are on their way back April because as Paul poiret once said every excess and matters a fashion is a sign of the end so you know pants as Ghana's really as high as they can go oh and now it's time for them to go as low as they can go. Although we shall see if McQueen's dumpsters every make a reappearance yeah I bet they will on that note of of pants you know what I would love to see him back and I do see them here and there sailor payouts. Oh yes Taylor pants. I think there's super flattering on everyone. You know that that little kind of like higher waist with the really wide bottom legs I think just about everyone can Iraq this yeah and then they have the two rows of buttons to your a high waisted pants are really flattering so I'm all about it but I- sneaking suspicion that those low rises are on their way back into our war a not mind but onto the runway perhaps we shall see. I have one more thing to add something. I would like to go away and that is these really short. Jean Insurance where the pockets are hanging out. You know what I'm Dan. That's not all that taking out yeah. Oh I have seen some things. Let I tell you it's the bottom part of your bum. It is that is affect an actually saw somebody who's lady parts. Were a little bit exposed the other day. I was like do you. You know what's happening right now. Are you aware of the situation back there. GAM so as far as kind of prophesized if they're that shorts are literally literally underwear now so now maybe I don't know Capris or what are the shorts that come to your knee. Those are coming. What are those called under me to Bermuda shorts yet so yes Adrian Fashion Est cyclical aw thank you for this relief in question we had fun with it and that actually does it for us today. Dress listeners so we hope to see you next Thursday but if not we'd love to hear from you about your favorite and least favorite fashion trends in history so please write to us at dressed IHEARTMEDIA DOT com or direct message us on instagram addressed underscore podcast which is also our twitter handle and you can follow us on facebook address podcast with out the underscore. If you are a fan of the show and want to take a moment to rate and review us on Itunes we would be oh so grateful. Your support means so much to us and I think that does it. We would like to say thank you to our producers. Chris Casey Pilgrim Holly Fry and everyone else iheartradio who makes this show possible each and every week catches soon. Just the history of fashion is a production of iheartradio for podcast from iheartradio visit the iheartradio APP. Apple podcasts are ever you listen to your favorite shows. My Name is Danny Shapiro and I'm the host of family secrets a podcast about the secrets kept from US secrets. We keep from others and the secrets we keep from ourselves. Family secrets is a show where you can hear powerful stories of heartbreak healing and hope listen to season into a family secrets on apple podcasts the iheartradio APP or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Tim Walker Talks Wonderful Things | Inside Fashion

The Business of Fashion Podcast

57:55 min | 1 year ago

Tim Walker Talks Wonderful Things | Inside Fashion

"The taking pitch Lee McQueen because I'm celebrating. I'm not taking a pitch of Tim Walkers impression impression of Lee McQueen throughout all the rooms and wonderful things what what you become really aware of is how transformative power of the imagination and said it's. It's not just you being inspired by the object. It's people who made the object. There's a definite melancholy. Toko Fay's inescapable click the Cama goes and then you like goes the beauty that's it it's done and then you have a photograph and that's a to d representation of something that was sublime hi this is Imran Ahmed founder and CEO of the business of fashion and welcome to the podcast this week as London fashion week was taking place fashion. Insiders were already buzzing about a new exhibition at the Victoria and Albert Museum in honor of the photographer Tim Walker occur the exhibition features more than one hundred and fifteen new works inspired by the Vienna's own collection in an exhibition designed by Shona Heath now now our very own tim blanks had the opportunity to sit down with Tim Walker just before the exhibition opened and he came back blown away so here's Tim blanks thanks and Tim Walker inside fashion about wonderful things at the Victoria and Albert Museum. I'm sitting here with Tim Walker on the occasion yeah of his show wonderful things Victorian album museum and I've just seen the show so it is such a pleasure to have a self paternity to talk about it with Tim him and I think everybody who comes to the show. It is a world of one day. It is full of wonderful. Things and I wanted to know why Tim Kohl his show wonderful. Things I think wonderful thing is is working project facilty as in you're encountering some different things and it was suggested journey is going to be cool to the an odyssey the journey didn't really know what we're going to quote it never really had added and then my producer. Jeff said do you know the the story of Tuten coming when they go into the teams in Tutankhamen and Howard Carter was asking heated helicopter go if how how Accounta- oven they went into the teams and they find any broke for it and then there was soy `lance and can you see can you see in oversee. He could see a time capsule of the worldly extraordinary. The vision that will he could say was wonderful things and that kind of in a way chimed with with E. C. When you come to the vein I think think I think it's funny. When you go into the exhibition the first thing you encounter is the the corridor of a retrospective that's by brightly lit room and it's and just to sort of a speedy boarding journey through my talk for the last two decades two decades and then you get to the end of it and it's called the chapel of needs which is all the new work. I've done we very recently and that's kind of where I am at the moment mint complete liberation of people without clothes on a very sensitive beatf away and then the maniacs fictional the then go on into is cool a wonderful things and that's dyslexia love letter to Savannah for myself. How would you if we start right at the beginning. which is long corridor with with the retrospective view of your work over the past few decades? How would you describe that work now. When you look at it what what's distinguishing cat distinguishing characteristics Sobat body of work of the first corridor yeah got it said like you don't realize his photographer that what you're doing so so one thing it's so so clear as to voice is such a one voice thing and then you look back at any. Oh God yeah. That's that's PAT said she's one very. I didn't realize I was just being Repetitive by taking the same ten pitches in a way this sort of like yeah absolute absolute fantasy and degree relented. Why relentless do feel feel it over overpowered? You think well. It's interesting you mention and because you have to books out is as a book for the exhibition wonderful things in another book shoot for the Moon which is absolutely big meanchey monograph and you make a very interesting point in that book that you you felt that the scale maybe the production the the the technicalities of those images set you will making you lost touch with the moment that that the magic of the moment of making an image that you have bogged down and putting beds and trees and in crystal ships in stately homes. I mean they are extraordinary images. I think I think that's really a a key thing. You've picked up on that. That is very much hard. Fail now felt like I was carrying very heavy bags but when I was younger as Tokyo had the energies energies do it takes enormous amount of physicality to make that type of image 'cause it some the very sort of complicated set like the beds in the trees what you just explained it very. It's a lot it's a lot and and you can see in your head and you you won't get that make the picture but by by meditating on that vision that you have in your head you often miss the the beauty of the spontaneous about the things flutter in front of you that way more sublime than you'll premeditated vision. I think what what what has always been awesome magical about that early work earlier work. Is that that sense that nothing was impossible you could you could defy gravity you get you could make a you could make a grey elephant blue. You could turn pussycats Persian pussycats into kaleidoscope callosum there was there was that kind of incredible energy. I mean when you when you look at surreal surrealism surreal losses savvy Lozada's. You feel the same sort of joy subversive in a way. I think it's it attend the my point of view. I think it was a a so playful. It was really playful and that play assistive. Let building a tree house or building putting on a stage production. It took a lot though takes a lot dirt another thing to realize realize that you have to just Yank put immense amount of energy into it which is something. I don't have any more. Did you feel something I don't not only we don't have that. I think that was what that whole period as a photographer when I was really exploring that fantasy that was a really exploded and by really engaging with the m the the pure pleasure of playing with fantasy and the impossible by then now realize that that you miss out on other things things may be by because you'll focus so much on making the impossible possible and happen and physical what with anomaly of extraordinarily talented collaborate is to make that happen as now to see a beauty in simplicity of at beat Sfu nude man man or woman or the simplicity of a girl in an incredibly beautiful dress against white background and I think any any complicated extra stuff fails like Hannah gauge did you did you. Did you feel actually that the that it was almost becoming cliche in a way that is a tim welcome by the graph you've had such a definite signature and I'm feeling now the playfulness it was sa- fantasy there was sort of a kind of dreaming as now there were there were different under current says darkness eroticism is a there's a power there is much more primal baps which is used used to be. I think the culture of taking pictures of people against the white background was was literally a response to going the other way to making very fantastical set sets in photographing people in sets. It was just a sort of a celebration shen over the person didn't want to I didn't want to disguise if you'll photographing someone you'll you're photographing. David Lynch and I grew up watching David Lynch's we all we all did sudden sitting in front of David Lynch. Why would you put David Diaper Lynch into very complicated set because then you kind of lease David Lynch and that was very interesting sitting with him because he was so into this simplicity of the portrait and we had a big discussion about his transcendental meditation action and the sort of the emptying of the fantasy in a way if meditation nations your emptying your head of you'll thoughts or your fantasies. That's the island love that may most recently we saw portraits of Margaret Atwood in the Sunday Times last weekend. She was ingesting began is kind of a little bit of I did photograph very simply you know when she first came in but she really quickly realizes that she's got a great love of fashion she she loves clubs and she really wanted to amplify persona for that photograph. Tov She wanted to become vicar than she is and in that way of is a shoot like that collaboration then a minute was totally more. It's more leaning towards directing herself and me mainly helping to achieve that that's what gives me most pleasure when you photograph when you meet someone like Margaret Atwood and she comes to the studio and I sit down on Abba conversation with put an. I try and fail her out and Phil what she wants to do. In than a she really wanted to play and she wanted to play dress up and she wants to celebrate the book she just written and she she'd even listing out the the colors and the graphics of the cover of the testaments and and how that can be translated fewer she will and then she went and looked to all the clothes in the dressing room and she she cherry picked a Black Cape in agreeing glove and then she was like I really would love a feather. Can we get a feather. We didn't have a feather so then the stylist Silas Harry had to dismantle hacked that had a long pheasant feather in it that became a quill and then she was like I I really think we need to get some eggs. You must have eggs in your fridge and we're not we don't have any eggs but we can get an egg so then some momentum golden eggs you completely. He choreographed photograph and that is a gift for me because I'm that photograph then becomes and Margaret Atwood is not my perception of Margaret Atwood. It's she's. She's chosen to that end. She was just so enjoyed enjoyed it and and yet she was really with it and she met she made it consult portrait away Selfie. I helped to make herself which is really a gift was thing you could do would be to put? Tim handmaid's tale. You know that'd be the worst thing you can do to sort of town into characters in Book and you prefer working with portrait's win. It set kind of into play. I mean what what what's your usual portrait shoot because as we've says as fling in them thirty a in the room downstairs if the a section the poach text ankle the handshake in I think it really really describes how I feel about making a traitor. Among is like the person Neil photographing is walking tool Jian as a pathway between yourself the camera and the person you want to take picture of them picture of and they won't towards you and as you get towards them hopefully you'll align and you will meet in the middle and you'll shake the hand date you'll agree a- satin baton way of how you can celebrate that person and they will say. I WANT TO SKULL I won't to quail will or I want to wear a pink dress or I won't be photographed with San or whatever the and that's a discussion and that's the agreement treatment. I think if I dictated and said it's interesting you know with that you would leave. McQueen it was I wanted that scalp own his head and then he had a bow tie mated bones so he was skull-and-crossbones. He was like there's no way I'm GONNA put skull on my head. Coach might have bones by really like skull and I really WANNA walk in. He he choreographs the the the skulls in the bones and made it his pigeon than he was smoking in the needs a cigarette and he stuck inside the skull in that became the pitch so that's let me as well a lot not do not to push something onto anyone because I'm taking a picture of Lee McQueen because I'm celebrating him. I'm I'm I'm not taking a pitch of Tim. Mockus impression of Lee McQueen queen. I won't the picture of Lee McQueen to be of Lee McQueen so the fact that he then changed my toys in made the maison was what made that Pitcher you assisted Abbott on your assisted Richard Add on and I noticed it was a is a quote from from him in in in the show where he he'd be advice he gave you was the The subject comes although end in the technique yet. Don't don't ever ever ever get complicated away down in props all complicated lighting flash systems that are. GonNa fuck up you you just go to the person in front is the goals that is what everything is. That is the absolute point of your that. The decisive moment is what's Infront do feel you've come to understand that better with time though that when you go into the capital of the nude for yeah yeah and and it's so graphic that room it's quite stock and like I said before it's doc it's quite erotic and that feels else to me like the sensibility that you acquire with age and experience Zena appreciation. I never would have taken needs previous said never would have I've known how to an eye has just young with age. You understand that certain people really comfortable expressing themselves need and I think again. It's like the poetry you talk to them and discuss what they want to do. In you navigate you'll camera with responsibility and with immense respect you can cry incredibly be fooled need pictures. I think that's where I'm at the moment I found that really thrilling work with people that the won't collaborate in that way I think again because he's Dipoto poed opposite to Hashem photography which is if a portrait of a subject on white plain white background is the antithesis this to a baroque fantasy set than a need study is the antithesis to fashion photography you it's such a celebration of flashlight. Ashley Rooms is all type says you've got. Beth Ditto and then you've got some Oliver Bailey the fitness instructor and Kate Monson Awesome extraordinary series of pictures based on Angela coaches but the magic toy shop with a twist united. They all all of abating photos. He's beautiful man but it's like Francis Bacon's pacing paintings of George Dyer than they've all got a a subtext I am you know it's so beauty's in the eye the bowel the and and I could see something about out of a baby that was instantly bacon. It was his bacon and it who is just he's he's. He's not a performer either. He's he's. He's a spokesman. So how'd you get a spokesman to perform become an oath to his bacon painting and yeah it was a really interesting clumsy the difficult and then when you start to see a way in to Francis Bacon world or or an then yes such exciting anyone anyone he's really interesting. A friend of mine said to tomat- she's a stylist our allies code and she said is really interesting photographing people because everyone has something anyone you could just walk out. Blindfold will come to bus in the fifth person along the seat they everyone has something and the responsibility responsibility of the photographer is to find a bt in anyone because everyone has something in a way that's the challenge of photography but it's also the freedom of Talk Radio Man. You've got you've got so much. Easy access in with the camera is a is a very convenient tool to access. I think the camera the camera gives reason it justifies one's presence somewhere and it justifies these peculiar meetings when you're photo during a tried to someone he don't you knew no because the celebrated a celebrated writer that celebrated artists you've never met them before and by virtue of the camera they all sitting being in front of you that that's this of light when I was starting out as talk for us to use my dog on a let my dog off and then I'll be snooping around trying to find a location take pitches and I thought if my dog was off and then I would be trespassing. Essentially the people come chesting have lost my dog. My dog inside the the camera is the allows you into places and gives you a reason to be the so it's it. It's not a distancing thing that it's actually makes it actually creates an intimacy. I think the camera doesn't the distance. I think if you're going to photography am with the personal photographing you'll with them. You'll use your oh celebrating them. You want them to look amazing. You want them to look glorious. That's what you'll that today. mcq cameras mainly am a black box. You put between you and then and it's it's yeah. It's a tool of intimacy. How did you come to photography kind of I didn't think cameras or can be incredibly complicated. Am things and I sort of like I don't think I can you know 'cause working with Avedon for example it will the he was put the subject. I his his camera. His technique was actually quite complicated. He worked on the tenny camera with flash full flash. Show six flashlights going off a sore eight win machines. It was incredibly dramatic. Complicated setup often even though his his mantra was keep it simple I never ever thought I could I could ever and I wasn't interested in in the camera and the workings of the camera and then I discovered a very very simple camera. That would be kind of the equivalent. I suppose of an iphone today just the anyone can just hit the button on the phone is called the camera icon on it's it works it was a Pentax k one thousand that Sam the most simple simple simplest camera you can use and once I discovered that that that that was how I went forward I was. I was always yeah so I could damage it but that's how I did it but it feels it feels to me like like your you'll inspiration. Driving Force was your own imagination nation. I love that line from your mother about guy out. Go out into the God and you don't move mothers should be saying to their kids. I guess funds in the computer. You'd go out to the garden and use you imagine easier medicine action. That feels like something that's various how I was brought up. Yes she visited like Doc. Reno has any child his that Bodo they didn't want to do side. Make it up make something happen. Make make it happen. She was of that yeah that's how she bought my brother and I up to make use your imagination. Get out into the garden and find something the nation in many ways so so because it's so perverse but it said powerful new pictures you grew up with fairies the bottom of your garden yet by Marsha I mean I think so ch- comfort comfort and reassurance from nature and being outside and I think that's where I came from and I think that's why I go walking in. You get ideas. nature's a source of and would you say that that has sort of infused your work with almost kind of pagan spirit that there is a sort of you've say Celtic I wouldn't I wouldn't say I wouldn't know if this is sort of. I wouldn't say there was a Celtics Fan. I don't know I think it should have been night. Lean in May that I think so many stories in senses in Moods and ghosts of ancient ancient landscapes that are inescapable that they they kind of that still living in a I'm living in May yeah because we'll work is so distinctive on every phase of the stuff we in this exhibition. The oldest set the the new stuff. It's so it feels like I love the idea of something coming through. You know that you will just a medium and I think in a way I think that a lot I think that I think the stories images visions regions are living things that exist in the ether and then they use these us to articulate themselves. I think I think a lot of the ideas I've had I you get a vision of something and it is often can come just very very serendipitous -ly like you're out walking like a sale. You'll be reading something and it is not what you're reading that you'll sing. It reminds your something. Something comes through it. It's sort of in the air and then I think mainly you as a person of that to make that give that story life. You'll you'll the conduit. You'll the yeah the point you make about. When you're taking a still sometimes his a gust of wind or something we should you will doing a movie but Mia this just a strange eccentric moment that view is is about being alive. I guess it's just life. I think any photograph if if any photograph if it was how I provision is that that is all I be really disappointed. I think that all the photographs the just seen as mistaken mistake in order them it is something went Rome. Something surprised may someone did something that helped make a kit. Nothing was as I planned it a tool at we had the plan in the organization to be that but something went beyond and made it something that floored me when I looked for the V. Finding and took that photograph it really it exceeded expectations stations so I often think it's not me making that it's something else and now I can only now think that is just visions are waiting to be found in. I'll take elected the fourth dimension the full dimension who who did you consider to be mental when you when you started making images. I think that when I thus I started out as just nobody young assistant there was some really sweet people that the I was small fry. Nothing people like Sarah Jane Whole Sarah Jiang was Sucha support. It was hard that said you have to go to New York to what with. She said he had to go to one of L. Goat which has Silas She was yeah she was and she said you have to go to neocon learn and dependent beginning apprenticeship she was uses she was. I mean many many people. She's very very early. Another young she helped main navigated things but it's so interesting you will you win with Avedon and you'll fighters remotely like yeah. I three of them yeah yeah but I think the I mean it would be a shame if they were because that said will you know Abbott terribly sad glad to repeat the pitches that Adam did but there's a definitely a way of to king you'll subjects six and I copy that from Abidine he had such a a great way of getting performance so a lot of people a photograph photograph that note performance a tool like Margaret Atwood. She's she's not a performer but love fashion and open-mindedness us in a good mood on the day she was very up for playing so I'm equipped with an ability of how to get performance play reacting character play from the time when assisted avalon because he was so good at that so for example I remember we're doing the assault she campaign and the two models Kristen McMenemy Knowledge Almond Almond with dressed in black facade she seats in shoulder pads little mini skirts and Craig White Stiletto Cheese and they came out and I looked to the models as an assistant standing that with the light working with with evidence. How is he going to navigate. How is he going to make these very ordinary. what quite close to see how is he gonNa tell until Richard Avedon photograph and he decided then he looked at them and he said you'll you'll crows you'll buds annual on a branch and you'll fighting because you've both seen one below and then. Najran crashed into the ruffled slaves and made the jackets and they became Tame Black Crows and the camera the tonight cameras on the floor sheeting up and they fought for the one on the studio floor and that's what make the pet so it wasn't about you. Go just to the left. You're stunning. You're sexy Oho. You're you'll fabulous. It was your crow and you'll fighting for one and they even they took off that she's in. They started hitting one another with us to get the the one that wasn't a worm that wasn't abroad that wasn't a crow but it became an avid on pitcher and he did that time and time again that character play and then that's what I now compete ESA. So how does the Tim Walker picture become a Tim Walker picture. what's your equivalent of telling the Girls Two Black Crows on burn which I think is that is that playfulness and I think it's encouraging everyone who I'm working with just to be open to possibilities of mistake. I think it's always been mistakes and the always things the time they come in they. They sound and crazy to do them but no we can't do that. We can't the best place play play. How do they come. Those ideas. Do Dream came to dream They come. They come from the same places that you look at books and film stories. People tell you all incidences notices. You're going about your life or historical facts but they come in the M. Mix so you mix up a historical fact with a contemporary thing you've seen on the straight with a an old painting mixed with them a piece of melodic muscle ingredients the make the recipe I mean the show wonderful things it is as you said it's you'll love letter to the Vienna and their incredible bowl resources that they have here that span millennia and every single creative endeavor. You can think of a human being embarking on when did that relationship ships start because it feels to me. It's very what you were just saying Bat jawing and so many disparate elements to make the images just it feels that that is the this is an essential expression of that this this exhibition avoid nine the vein a be growing up in this country we will come on school trips intone and so he knew it was about but I think that the the the actual will commission from the night work on this project a came from a series of photographs. I did that exhibited in this exhibition based on the garden of Earthly Delights unanmous Bush painting the Vienna Soul photographs taken inspired by that painting and then they thought well you know if you can make those photographs based on the guard Murphy Delights. We've we've had a museum stacked with the most extraordinary desperate eclectic notion humankind's articulation of beatty. Could you go there some much. I mean it goes from a something from Catherine Hamlet teasha to a ring dug up up in in the desert from five thousand. BC The time is so desperate and whether you're looking at pieces stained glass or metal work or an exquisite Asian Hindi storytelling illustration as some much but what the common thread is is it's. It's an articulation of beatty. I think it's like the most sublime. Bt that when you look food in your take them to the cloth workers or storage unit summer Martin Avena and the pillow droll and as a gray folks and it's called a string round they open that and then there's another box inside that in tissue PIPO inside that there's a a black glove that so the embroidery in the glove is so sublime line and so unbelievably beautiful nice that's Elizabeth I writing loves and you're just everything said like like a explosion in your head said of like his extraordinary to thank those gloves in that box belonged don't Elizabeth the first and that's how she would she held onto the reins of the whole in those jobs any look the embroidery and it's just yes he is. It's unbelievably. Beautiful will now each of the rooms in the exhibition. You have chosen objects from the museum's two Million Object Archive and you've built your weld around around it can be as tiny. Here's a snuff box the room. The Room met expands adverse single snuff bones. Is the perfect example yeah. How did you confronted by the so much choice. How did you select the said you based on. What you initially you go to the Vienna new you spend in a year going round anything disconnect everything just really it was such a an extraordinarily narrowly the privilege. I think of the commission and you really want to honor that privilege wholeheartedly and and truthfully and really engaged everything they have and I realized that that was impossible. I the there's no way you can see everything so oh then I just kind of let go a bit relaxed and just sort of delved into celebrity surprising places in the particularly that little snuff books folks comes from a collection that Vienna hold the actually are there was nothing in in that collection that was tool interesting and I should have really not relating to anything anything that I was looking at and then that one it'll magical snuffed books wishes the size of the matchbooks and then when you look at it as a whole world within it is like a magical Gaudin at night time with a prince or Princess Woking Dragon. Can picking flowers that grow on a full name. It's almost too small for me to say Deanna the incredible and that immediately it. I don't know who made the snuff box. I can achieve now. Tell you what year was made assembly nineties right seventeen ninety five but I think just the the explosion when you look at something of that beauty humaid it where it's come from year his that's not the point. The point is whoever made it that articulation of beauty and refinement in skill will and sensitivity and Gross Romanticism touched me it really really touched me an illuminated me and then that illumination as owner need as we needed sort of like yes explosion that goes off new had all you want to do is make response to that as token you you can immediately see this whole landscape grow out in front of you and we know exactly healthy onerous see what I think is extraordinary is that each of those objects inspired a body of work when you from you which you which at and the body of work was something you did editorially annual fashion work so this project is wonderful things project which has been going on for what three years yes. He is actually shake your entire. Output Your Professional. It wasn't just something you were doing on the side it shape shape your entire professional out everything. I mean when you see it here. I think that that to me is obviously I've seen older shoots when you did the magazines things like I D and Vogue. Everybody else set you up for and to see the genesis album. It's this big picture. Here is enthralling rolling. I think is very important to me that the pictures were in the in magazines in culture it today because I think that was something else I want to honor all those historical objects and Magnum very contemporary so even though they published in magazines jeans and if you'll vote in the fascist g much seen some of the pitches but then when you come back and he see they've come from right you say the genesis of that. That's that's where the hall of the Mozzarella's. I think the most poignant room is the room with is he a model thing with yeah and the Baltic Sangram the attack room the I think it has the bucks teenage girls senior girl. May that is the most poignant room for me too. It's and she made that box when in the sixteen sixteen seventy and she before that trinity she's the crossing is treasury books to put COULDA casket it and on the outside the panels embroidered intricate embroidery of Chivalrous Knights Kissing princesses people on hoses is uniforms moths and caterpillars and touching that a fifteen year old girl would Creighton object such. Bt because it was well he was crating. I'm secret secret drools where she could love letters in her jury. Hush secret things have most treasured treasured things and then had a lock on it and it's sort of like it felt like an iphone today the Senate I dare of will that we carry out funds lost lost mine. This morning refounded same Josie. If you're few that we keep it. They are treasure boxes. We keep a photographs on them McKee. You keep messages we we they are our private worlds that is is some potent and energies found that yeah incredibly touching and then you extemporised to James Fences private world old we way you photograph him in the House he grew up in yeah which is where backup quite grim yet by gray and he went in grim and he's China's very beautiful man very romantic figure and he most interesting what was interesting for me was that he feels more beautiful as a woman and then he comes down to London and he transformed himself and he dresses dresses up and he looked goes to the Vienna any looks Lizard Bethan costuming exit looks at fifty could churn he takes that own and becomes his most beautiful self but she's a woman and I think that whole bridge from Tottenham looking at periods of history what people will wearing him going out clubbing dancing with friends in that remmel has friends on the wall they were and then you can see echoes of Cheetah collapse you consume in Elizabeth in Russell. You can see history in the club I've seen in in London with him and his friends and that was the the love letter to the little fifteen year old girl who created her world in sixteen seventeen with her immaculate heartfelt embroidery hair. It's being able to sing again in a contemporary way and that obviously that's super talk. Oh Mum that's identity and self creation and the sort of gender fluidity I guess but but I think throughout all the rooms in wonderful things what you become really aware of is how transformative the power of the imagination said it's not just you being inspired by the object that some people made the object even conceive of the object then you put James Fence in the Boston Garden Mike the like you imagine that that swelled in his head very vivid surreal environment with there are no rules and why he can be well he wants to be. It's his the freedom fame to express himself and would be what he wants to be. which is the the most thrilling point of humanity the honesty to to say what you are is is photography that that's what I want? That's that's what I live foil so that kind of people joined to generally. I see on the wall. He yeah whether it's Tilda swinton will eat well. Oh Beth Ditto yeah in the it's a very strong sense sense of of people who will go wherever you want them to go or debating there and you're taking a picture away. I think that they they inspired me because maybe when I was younger I couldn't go more. I wanted to go. I felt said if chained by expectations or cultural societies some sort of repression I suppose than to see an exist and work in collaborate with the people that are liberated. Thanks very an own that beauty in all. The extremities of beauty is really positive thing on his barring. Thanks I mentioned the Sitwell that little bit is is is that's not the Vivian Lee Wig as from Streetcar named his is that was in the Vienna's archives the wing that Vivien Leigh Warren Street counting disaster and extraordinary story that with the I went to one of the departments here and there was really old object walk to know whether it was sort of an an taxidermy animal can walk out what it was and it was wrapped in neon a neon orange net as well. It's that and that Oh that's Vivian wake that she wore industry named desire and it's yet is the character of `Blanche launch. What's so exciting is discovered the the the original wake maker. Gwen Franklin from nineteen fifty is alive and living in London and she's now in the late eighties and she's going mm to reset the wake for archive as Blanche Dubois and she lives in the Barbican analysis. That's extrordinary story and and then we're going through Cecil Beaton telegrams and he sent to latitude Vivien Leigh's husband Lawrence Levy saying nothing not what was going on Broadway this year in the forties but this is this is young playwright Tennessee Williams. He's ANA this play a streetcar named desire and I think Vivian really should read that script she could she could really enjoy that and so it's interesting that beaten crated. Vivian Lees launch it was him he was the catalyst. I didn't know that now no I didn't but I think it's very interesting on that later manages to mention a streetcar named desire without mentioning Modern Brando which was the reason why electrified Broadway and spelling dealing with these nightmare on Sony humans it is just such a beautiful coming together of a a journey through the Vienna Inn finding a very light you say very sort of shorthand misspelt telegram to Laurence Olivier the get persuading Finley to depart and then there's the wake and then that's the book that I read at School. We had to read that in English Street. Crime dissolves was the text we read so I was always fascinated by lange. She held such she such pity related to her at a very young age lizard questions ask right there with the WIG that becomes part of your story the WIG last year the the lead from Cecil Beaton to my dear Larry and retelling stories like this whole this something else show that reacquainting people people with the power of imagination but also educating them in a way and this is the world is infinite. You know that that that that you walk around that shower showers this so much to take on. Do you feel a sense of mission in a way that I was thinking of. This is a legacy project. We've done it so long on. You've you've intertwined your story and the story so tightly in the show that it's kind of it stands there is a body of work that will that it will exist amongst this museum. Does I think I I really had any future projection. I didn't really think about I think I really just enjoyed the the thrill of the resource of the van a and finding things really surprised me and and really using it intensely going to the library going down to two corridor oft corridor after corridor of back departments looking at objects in things and just finally to this infinite infinite objects beatty and it just it just goes on and on and it's just I think that the story of bt not the story of the decorative arts is just an ongoing living thing of such gauguin chew in proportion ocean. It's like a bomb like a medicine such an important medicine than to to be here in this enormous museum and see associate existing as an infinite enormous Utopian beautiful vision. I think is fundamental abyss romantic theory that the power of UC lies in its transient you feel in a way you will counteracting that by giving these things a permanent beyond. I mean finding Vivian these for example but there are other things is sort of everything isn't grand their humble things things as well Do you feel that you do you feel that you that you're bringing kind of permanence to these objects by making them into some bite by by on is like an Alchemy that you perform. You know. You're making them into something else. Nothing that thing that just that all the objects in in the show off just things have really touched me and they might not touch people in in the same way I think the Vienna holds things some many things that would food food touch other people. I think I think that just pus. Naptha me that things that have really emmys me illuminated me me floored me in that. Bt I think I think that yeah what about the idea of the transient sobriety though you you fight of your your job job years and he has to fed across extremely beautiful people looking extremely beautiful and extremely beautiful clouds in glorious against glorious backdrops a you this is sort of melancholy and aetna way because all things must pass and and actually melancholy in Cali is something that I rather enjoy in your work. I think it's so interesting. He said I think that by virtue of clicking the the cable release on a camera that is a melancholic sound to me because you'll seeing you someone or something actors optimum beauty whether that Sicel Tiv- Garden and has blit at four o'clock in the afternoon in the APP sleep the most exquisite light and you take the picture and you know that the seasons seasons changing in someone's leaving ultimate coming and he's you're taking a picture of a girl so unbelievably other worldly wildly beautiful. You know that that will change. There is as a photographer. I'm hyper aware of my Komo Tallahassee. I think now I'm valuable because of the transients because you take pictures of things and you take pitches of houses in than they crumble jumble. Will they get a restored and then whenever stole they lose their soul yet. I think there is a definite melancholy Tokar face inescapable is an inescapable Memento Mori inescapable take the thick you click of the cameras and then you like that goes the optimum time that goes the BT's get that sets down then when you have a photograph on that Ah Tutti representation of something that was sublime and do you feel as such a perfect place to stop but I have to ask you. Do you feel whether there's a slight that spirit of defiance in your latest weapon I think beauty I think and I the moment the little death patty more of the chemically is in end and but then ends with followed by beginnings and I think that being melancholic back and sad about losing something is done engage that for too long because you know that girl that was was ready beat full so when she was in twenties she can be even more beautiful when she's in her seventies and I think that's something I've really you come to recognize is that beauty comes back in waves seasons. Come back some comes back. Does Ashley will be to winter yeah. Beauty comes back was willing and as you leave wonderful all things the very last image is the book with a bed comment about new beginnings so there's a whole whole other world waiting for you. Yeah yeah think so. Thanks thank you ten. Thanks to thank you very much. If you enjoyed this conversation you might also be interested in joining us. Global Membership Community B. O. F. Professional are members receive the exclusive deep dive analysis in our daily digest email as well as unlimited access to archive of over ten thousand articles our new IPHONE APP special print issues is an all of our online courses and learning materials from B. O. F. Education for a limited time. Only we're offering our podcast listeners and exclusive twenty five percent discount on on your first year of an annual professional membership to get this special offer. Click on the link in the episode notes select the annual package and enter the special code podcast ought cast two thousand nineteen at Chaco. We hope you enjoyed this podcast. Please leave us a rating if you did and don't forget to share it with your friends

Vienna bt Margaret Atwood Lee McQueen Tim Walker London David Diaper Lynch Richard Avedon Vivian Beth Ditto Ashley Rooms Elizabeth I Tim Kohl tim blanks Abbott Tim Walkers Victoria
TCF Ep. 500 - Joel Meyerowitz

The Candid Frame

1:10:47 hr | 1 year ago

TCF Ep. 500 - Joel Meyerowitz

"On February sixteenth. Two thousand six a hit the return button on my keyboard and uploaded the very first episode of the candid frame which featured a conversation with the UN wind photographer. John Isaac now almost fourteen years later. We release episode five hundred. The one you're listening to right now. When the idea for the podcast I came to me? I had a general sense. It would be successful by that. I mean I knew there would be an audience. I knew that because it was the kind of show that I wanted to hear but it didn't exist. There were certainly other photography. PODCAST S.. Out there by people who would become friends like Jeff Curto Martin. Bailey Chris Marquardt and John Arnold but the specific show. Oh that I wanted to hear just wasn't around so I created it myself. I did this even though I barely undestood with. podcasting wresting was. I also didn't know anything about recording or editing audio creating and maintaining a website nor did I have any idea what an RSS feed was. My only real advantage was that I had access to photographers and I had a lot of questions. The show started with only a few dozen listeners but now there are thousands all over the world and while it may not be the most downloaded photography podcast out there. I'm very proud of what it's become and what it's meant to so many people. I love what I do here. I'm always so excited when I have a chance to sit down with someone and chat with him for an hour because regardless of their level of fame or success. I'm just hoping for great conversation than another human being and when that happens. It's just as good as I've gotten interviewing people and producing the show. I have to thank the many listeners who provide guide me audience and who by subscribing increasing numbers. Let me know that I'm onto something. I'm also really thankful to Marco Torres who let let me his digital recorder so that I could record my first episode and my fellow. Og podcasters as well who welcomed me into this new and growing medium. I'm thankful Martin Taylor who volunteered his video audio skills to the production of the show years ago. And lastly I have to thank my wife. Cynthia who has supported reported my work more so than anyone else. And lastly I want to thank my guest for today. Joe Meyrowitz a master Mr photographer. I have long admired and I'm lucky enough to call a friend when I knew that Joel would be available for my five hundred episode. I was thrilled because every time I've sat down with him. The result has been everything I hope for for any episode and again for the fourth time. We doesn't disappoint and thanks for joining me for this five hundred episode. I couldn't have done any of this without you. This is your body anex and welcome back to the candidate frame house the year been treating. I know you're always busy but during the show I am where we believing in Tuscany for five years now and we have a little place in London. Where I'm speaking to you from and it's been good? Life has been full of interesting challenges in good way which shows coming up books on line. The commission's to do things last well two weeks ago just before Christmas and so I got an invitation from the Vatican. Wow come down and see the Vatican museums and see if I could find anything that I would WANNA photograph like a body of war not not just a picture inside the Vatican museums and so I'm going in three weeks. I have a date to go down and take the first look and see if it's a project so it's that kind of surprise that at my age now eighty one. It's so satisfying to be able to have these things. Come in that are unexpected and maybe even really interesting projects all these new opportunities that come your way that's fantastic. It's quite a blessing if you live long enough to happen and the fact that you are capable of of saying yes and those opportunities. Because I'm always amazed at your your the constitution. But you're still out there doing as much as you are so lucky. Well I hope you're up and outside a lot because I think that that was the money in the bank from the all my years of swimming and biking walking the streets of New York and I still feel physically good shape when I was watching the video. I think I mentioned that autumn. I talked to you. There's a bit in the video that you were doing for the masters of Photography series when you're talking to the camera and just behind you. There's this person that starts walking behind you and then you make dash after them because you see a photograph and that's where I wanna be. It turned on a dime walling. How did you like the mess photography course? I really enjoyed it. I've never had a chance to shoot alongside here so that's about as close as I. I've gotten today so it was really kind of seeing the way you approached it as well as hearing you talk about it and seeing you're doing at the same time I thought was really nice and then considering how well I knew your work was able to like connect all these different pieces and also understand the things that I've adopted. That are so much yours. Now we're also different so he's really sort of fascinating perspective affective well. Next time I come to L. A. which I may I think there's a gallery there that might want to show some worth. Let's plan to go for a walk together. Aw just framing clogging the streets. That'd be great. I really wouldn't quartet well. Thank you for sending out the the book really lovely but it also serves as a great point of discussion because we've talked multiple times before. I always like exploring Neil Angles. Whenever I have a chance asked to speak with you and one of the interesting things about this book is that it isn't new work? It's work that you created back in the eighties but it was an opportunity community to revisit. Those images with much different is and these are images that you've made in in province town which is at the end of Cape Cod in Massachusetts. It's and it was the the person taking care of your your archive during the time. That was the instigator for revisiting. This this work. Tell me about her and how she came to reconsider those servers so her name is Jenny Goldberg and she had worked at aperture years before he for and then she left. And I needed my archives and database reconfigured and Jenny was good at that so I I hired her she was still friendly with the people at Aperture and one day. A Michael Family Getty who runs the magazine was having a sandwich with early. Said you know I'm GonNa do on style eighties style and I'm wondering if you know of any pictures and she said Oh. My God Joel has the style photographs of province town. He was there during the AIDS crisis in during the period when people started piercing and tattooing being and gender issues started playing a stronger role in our society and our cultural awareness. You might say and so she said I send you a few pictures so she sent him two hundred forty photographs of large format portraits. It's of people on the streets of province down and you know at the time. I wasn't making documentaries about those issues. I was photographing the people that I saw on the streets I I was interested in portraiture for the first time in my life because I think the view camera gives you this advantage each of having a big machine that requires people to slow down and hold still very nineteenth century in a way and as a street photographer. Talk from my portrait's were really on the go and I never asked anybody if I could take that picture I just I just winged them on the way and and so this required a whole different set of instincts in approach in order to make a serious portrait of another person. The even ask the question who's portrait visit of them or is it does rick. Does it reflect me any case. Jenny showed Michael Police photographs and he said Oh my God there's a book here and aperture is very gender oriented publisher now. Let's do a book that had shows the segment of the population in the early eighties. And show how much it prophesies. What's come to pass now now? In the in the cultural climate we live so that in a nutshell it was how how it all came about. And I'm really fortunate that Jenny was his sharpen Arpan and committed. She was yeah and part of the world is is always been a popular draw not just for the LGBTQ community but also also for artists writers painters and of course we're dog refers and it seems to be a real magnet for eccentricity. Well you know it wasn't what drew me to Cape Cod for Jimmy. Was I wanted to gain greater uh descriptive power. I switched from thirty five to eight by ten and I thought the Cape with its with province town which which is such a strange place. Province town is like a street in Greenwich Village. It's a very dynamic. Lively Place said in an incredibly beautiful for natural seaside setting so it has a funny mix of really rural fishing town with a little bit of edge of of a kind of urban ity. So I thought oh I'll function there. I'll be able to work on the street with the view camera. will be slower but what I saw I got there. was that this town at the very end of Cape Cod which you could consider lens and these kinds of lands than places uses often draw people who want to quote get away from it all and go to the very furthest point on a coastline and then an experience what it's like to live inside that kind of community and it turns out to be a very accepting and tolerant community. It's like you you're crazy. You WanNa come to prevent joined the rest of the crazies. And and so that benefited me because it offered me a wide range of breath human beings who covered you know from Portuguese fishermen to a Broadway actors to New York New York City painters to poets and and writers and Dance Companies Opera Singer. I mean a cultural sweep came through during this tiny tiny town. There's only three thousand people there in the winter or Donna. Summer's Day there could be fifty thousand people in province town just just for the day you can see from this description how rich environment it might be to kind of study. The it's like the tide brings in all the stuff and deposit there for day and you can walk around and pick up bowl these beautiful sea shells and sea glass. That's how the people seem to be represented to me and I was fascinated by it and flow. I started in seventy six I. I spent the next thirty five summers in Providence. You mentioned that this was a time of transition for you where you were going from the work that you had done in the street largely in New York where you would make photographs of people. But it wasn't with oftentimes with their conscious participation participation they were oftentimes in element within the composition of the scene that you're seeing in the moment that was playing out in front of your camera when it came to these portraits. You were actually soliciting their their participation in it and one of the things that when I look at the portrait's I've heard you talk about. was that the small details that would make a street photography really saying where the very things that you were also looking for or that you would recognize in the creation of the portrait like the way someone is holding their hands. The knife digging into from or the way. They're holding a cigarette red. Talk to me about how those skills that you learned on the streets helped you to create those moments especially since you are often only making making one or two frames on your on your large format camera of the subject as far exceed got a really good observation vision of how things come about. It's true on the street in other such a mix of people activities and street photographer over has to be on the lookout for the larger. Seen that might reveal something of social interest cultural interest or sure it touches you as an artist personally but you're also sweeping up all the details away someone's carrying a bouquet bouquet of flowers and somebody else carrying a framed painting and people are looking. They're shopping their handbags or and all of this richness. This is part of the liberal kings across the street photographs frame that keep the interest games so when I started making portraits shirts of these people and by the way I used the same instinct you might say if I'm walking down the street in Providence. Town people are just coming impasse and suddenly one person for some reason did has a kind of vibration that touches whatever lie core vibration is and I sense the possible harmony and in those moments I would sort of have to get my courage up and cross the social barrier between strangers and go over to this person and say hi you know I really need to make a portrait view and of course I'm standing ending their six foot told count on pod and they immediately see what's what's wouldn't camera what's this guy doing as so in a way. Hey the camera access bait and people would take me seriously. Wouldn't think I was going to run up with with an iphone. 'cause in those days there were no iphones and so people would be curious about me and it would allow me Joss that breath with two to establish a kind of communication mm unification rhythm with them. It could be playful. You say something funny or your you make an observation about their their clothing or the way there sunburn looks something and and by establishing that human moment and then getting them to say yes I could then say oh well. Let's stand over here and I'll set my camera up and then I would tell him. It's GONNA take a couple of minutes because this is a nineteenth century entry instrument. It's a very slow and really what I want from. You is to be able to look into the camera I'm only take one unframed. I want you to look into the camera and if possible. I want to see if I can see your secret. Whatever your hidden it is I'm hoping to deliver it to the camera? And then I would tell to hold still focused the camera night but the holder wondering pull out the dark slide. And then I step aside so that I'm alongside the camera. I'm not behind it like a thirty five millimeter. And at that point I have to keep a line of conversation between me and then like a thin thread like a spider's peters web thread in which I'm holding them there so that they can feel a kind of a moment of relaxing thing and giving themselves over to the camera so I don't press the button when I see them Posey smiling too much chill borders in our giving their body some kind of cute form I wait until they dissolve and some instinct in me says the reality is telling itself in this moment. Now it's it's a risk you know you can be wrong. Fifty percent of the time I so you say yes. And it's it's no but I've I've trained on the street for long enough and I certainly learned as I was making these portraits. How to read human potential? I could see someone who's unsettled. You know and I would just hold on a little longer and talk to them a little more until I got them to kind of just melt because I want. I think this is important to consider for all your listeners is. Is that portraiture particularly today. In the era of the smartphone is very self conscious. And everybody's posing in trying to look look their best. What I wanted was the possibility of intimacy of human intimacy between two strangers? Here's where someone would trust me enough to relinquish something of this secret to the camera and I think if you look at these pictures carefully in province town is almost in every picture that you get a feeling that your with the person. It's not a stage studio portrait. There's something vulnerable about these. People I don't know is that. Is that your experience. There's a genuineness miss their that comes across in in your portrait's which is something that I really love and something that I always strive to achieve in my I own photographs but as you said with mixed success but you wrote something interesting in the book about the three sort of components that bet sort of make. That's how much the photograph but the experience of making the photographing and we've talked about the third point. The first point was having an understanding of how the camera sees having an understanding of how the photographer photographer sees and then the third thing in terms of the almost indescribable X. factor of the recognition of the genuine. In your moment and it seems that a lot of people get fixated on the first here because you have to have become comfortable with the first two in in order to be able to give yourself up to defer thing which is so ephemeral yoursel good and thin really understand the nature of this game of site that we photographers play with the world large accuweather it's portraiture animal photography landscapes. Whatever it is this some way in which we have to merge with the subject object and the moment in a way we have to give up our own ego and our self consciousness and feel the potential meanings in the moment and that comes like a breeze? You know it just comes over us and we recognize is he didn't know in a moment and it's in those moments that photography exists because that's when you press the button photography captures a moment two two hundred and fifty years of the second one hall second. Mike Portrait's often anywhere from a quarter to a whole second. Sometimes Times longer. There are some of those evening portrait's which are three four five seconds long so it was a big risk that people will move so that the skills skills that one has to learn to maintain the subjects stillness and and the purity of their giving over of themselves relinquishing their secret to camera operated by someone they just met. This is mystical stuff. You know it's like being a magician. Tribal elder who knows how to pull these truths out of somebody but it takes a lot of time and belief that you can do this. You have to be patient. Washington often call enough inside so that all of the messages that are coming from the moment and the subject you are receiving in clearly no anxiety or haste even though speed photography's fast instantaneous. You can do it fast. But not hastily otherwise if you expand the moment of consciousness your own consciousness as an artist time becomes flexible. So that in the St- space of recognition calms the thousandth of a second pressing the button. You know what I mean. It's like how many different ways are there. This is almost like Einste- Einstein's physics in a way about time you can manage these two dimensions dimensions of time in the same living consciousness of of your being there recognizing raising the camera pressing the the button and knowing that you have crossed tests with this moment of what of your destiny that you've created this moment or oh you've witnessed this moment and I I know is probably gonNA sound to our listeners. A little bit you know like new agey and you talked to any serious photographer. Who's done it during the course of their lifetime and they will say something similar because it's not only mechanics? There's a an understanding of the temporal nature of times movement and passage and the the actions. We see that take place in that are things we can comprehend quite fully if we've practiced the medium long enough and and you know it's something to aspire too. I think that for all of your listeners out there photography isn't pure mechanical press the button the same the Lens photography also in spiritual dimension in which your humanity humanity is what is being recorded along with the subject matter and if you look at the work of any great photographer Robert Fry Right Caccia Brisson. UC again and again in the photographs the expression of their humanistic qualities this. How moved they were by what they saw? It's not just design out there. It's something that is so a special about this media that a machine can record emotions and feelings and and humanity entity and we give to each other as as are offering. It's not just about shaping a picture nicely in the frame but how much how much compassion or emotion or understanding can you bring to the frame with with an interesting arrangement of all this information and I think that's the secret of photography the Twenty First Century for me what I love most most about it is its ability to solicit solicite wonder especially when it's the most ordinary and familiar scenes subjects. You know the the details that become so important in a portrait always hold fascination for me because they are often so subtle subtle and my new and I think that what I love about. It is the presence of awareness. You have to be in that moment in order to be able to recognize it because as you know touchy feely as it can be sort of recognizing the moment that you actually release the shutter it. It's actually because you're paying attention. Not just to the person's face but the way. Their shoulders are the placement of their feet. All all those small little almost almost imperceptible things when all of a sudden they just sort of come together and then you recognize it and you make the photograph and it's the same thing that I experience on the street where it's the light. It's the person walking in front of me. And then there's also this person in the background in this person closing an umbrella and all these sort of disparate elements that are happening within a fraction of second. And then you can opt almost anticipated. And then you press the shutter. Justice comes together and I think when I look at At these portraits. There's much the same thing. Even though the movement within the frame is not as brisk as it may be on avenue but nevertheless is there and I think that that's having an understanding that even though these two different types of photography it's the same sensibility. The same sort of developed awareness. That's essential for this to be effective beautifully said and and the key word right early on in your state you said I notice. What else is photography? It's US walking around with a camera noticing doing the things that are interesting to us and it's the multiplicity of things right. The small details the large forms the shadows cut across the the movement of people. We are trying photographers. Who really understand nature of the medium where trying meaning to unify all the things? We see in an organized way in a rectangle so that it makes thanks for an interesting moment of observation to me. I I call that the game of site. It's just the pleasure of being out. What in the world and noticing the little details and the big gestures because for me? And we've talked about this before too when you hold photographing your hand oil. Look at it the book. Even you start to read the photograph. It's like a text and it's not like words on a page where you read from the upper left across the first line and down and down and tickets at the bottom of the page. The text is open ended. You can enter anywhere. The picture calls out to you. Somebody might see the thing in the center. Somebody else might see the detail in lower right hand corner of the frame we. We begin to read an appreciate the information in the in the rectangle. Each of us individually until we you begin to assemble a kind of a narrative. I don't mean a story but a narrative of the events that are happening happening in the frame that tell us about the photographers perception as well as about our own interests in this. So we as the viewer of the photograph have kind of communication with the mind of the artist through through the selection of objects incidents people lighting that that person has recorded in an instant. So it's a very very dynamic and dimensional reading of a flat plane after all. The photograph is a two dimensional bits. It's of color on a piece of paper or black and white on a piece of paper and yet it represents a three-dimensional reality that people live the pass through and and one that we all recognize. You know it's not like when you look at paintings. Every painter has his his or her own iconography inaugural scribble scratch big brush stroke circles thrown paint people choose a form for the language photographers. Were I stuck with reality. You press the button. You Got Pavement. Cars Guy Telephone Poles you know. Sign Edge people. You got all of it. How do you make sense of it? How do you render it personally? Yours or beautiful or meaningful. I mean. There's so many different things we're trying to do with the photograph in. Oh it's amazing that there aren't Dr that many photographers in the world who produce works of individual significance and beauty and meaning whose work we actually look forward to see. I know that you had a discussion with Richard Avedon about the idea of the process of making photographs. Because you like you said it only one or two burchard would make a lot more than one or two of any given given subject can. Can you tell us a little more about that conversation region. Yeah Well I. I met take avid done very early in my career. Nineteen sixty three I. I took a class with Alexi broadening. Who was the famous Art Director of Harper's Bazaar magazine and he was famous for having sort of have discovered Robert? Frank and Gary winner grand. A lot of people had taken his class. Tom Jones the English photographer. And I set seto. We'll take a LEXI's class. But within a few sessions Alexi became sick and since the class was held. Richard I have done studio in the office of his studio took over the class. And you know we just students but he and I hit it awful a little bit act then nineteen sixty three and over the years we would see each other occasionally and then one day right during the time that Avidan was was doing the people of the West Book of off all his western classical American American the American west the America and so some Ziemba or some place in Sweden had published a set of posters one of Dick Avid Don's man with the bees covering him and the other Li- woman. My red had headed young woman covered in freckles. And they sent both posters to my studio in New York and asked me to note. Could you bring an avid poster over two. So I called the up and I said I got this thing from Sweden. I bring those ensure I got to his place ice he. It was a quiet morning there. He had been working on the pictures of the West. We sat talking for a while and he showed me a lot of scouting that had been done for those people. And I said you didn't choose these people. He said. Well I I did but I have a scout out in the West I and they take polaroid's of people on the street that they think I might be interested in they fedex them to me a day later sure I send it back to them and I say hold the sky hold. This woman saved this person. Put them up in a hotel by the meal like keep them there and then when they assemble enough people he flies out and he flies out with his crew and they set up no seem in a parking working loud or something like that outside that he has daylight plus reflectors and then he just will shoot seventy eighty ninety sheets of eight by ten and I said I'm really puzzled that I said you know on the street photographer. I am not a studio photographer and I feel like I. I recognize people along the street. That means something to me and I have to enact this and go over and talk to them I said. Have you ever done that. You WanNa do that. He should know is that. I'm a studio photographer. said the magazines pick the most interesting people in the world has no to my studio. Why do I have to go out on the street cream? And besides it's important take pictures of them because you know sometimes sour or sometimes. They're they resistant or sometimes they you know they had a bad night's sleep he said so it requires me time to get to know them on the no seam on the set it and I said I get I get you know you come from that kind of professional position but I said something I have to tell you from my perspective this something else that happens in real time with real people and the skills who says you have particularly I have a feeling you would make some truly remarkable pictures if you made yourself available but like that and he kind of looked at me so to shook his head like the you have to do that they will I can I can afford to have people do my research for Redo my casting so it was like in even though he could understand my point it's like his world was too busy to to tolerate that kind of of risk taking in the studio had to keep going Before we continue with my conversation with Joel I have something really important to share with you about a former guest reg Campbell. I interviewed ranch edge back in episode three ninety seven San Antonio Texas where I was attending the four by five photo fast. Reg is an amazing editorial photographer. Who is as generous as he is talented? When I interviewed him back in two thousand seventeen he had just completed his final treatment for leukemia? He was in good good health and spirits and eager to get back to work which he did but unfortunately his cancer returned and he's fighting this battle again right now. He's in need of a bone own marrow transplant and he's waiting for a match which I sincerely hope he gets. Until then I wanNA leverage any influence that I have with his show turn encourage you to help branch and his family. I if you haven't already please registered yourself with national bone marrow registry all it requires. Ours is a swab your cheek. There's no pain involved. It's especially important if you are a person of color because we are under represented in the registry. I've been on the registry USTRY myself over twenty five years. Find out how to do this. By visiting the website and be the match dot org you can also support ranch and his family financially anciently by buying one of his prints which are available for sale on his website. It's a challenging time for any family contending with a serious illness and it's helpful not to have to worry every day about the finances. Your purchase will really make a difference in someone's life today often can we say and lastly spread the word on your social networks and get the word out there. Let's make a difference in ranch and his family's life today links for all these resources. We'll be on the website and the show note. Thanks I know at one point that of for the Cape Cod work. The you put an advertisement asking people who thought that they if if they consider themselves interesting in whatever way to come and visit you in and make a portrait to some degree. You're kind of leaving yourself open to anyone to come by an- and pose for you. How how was that different from just strictly walking around the streets of of province town with at four by five over your shoulder and basically fishing eight eight by ten General Marshall in Manhattan? Still I wrote this in on. What happened was when I started making these portraits? It was so new to me. I I found my passion almost immediately in are realize wanted as much as possible and that sure I go out walking every day. Carry the camera wherever I go but I thought if I put an ad in the local paper which I said if you are remarkable or know someone who is Joel Meyer would like to take make a portrait so now remarkable is very special word because everybody is remarkable in one way or another just for how they they look but also everybody's quite ordinary I mean we're both those things and so I wanted to see what fish which would swim up to my deck and tell me they are remarkable so in a sense I made a thousand portraits of from those adds a quote remarkable people who look like the most ordinary people so in in a way in that but it was just for me to increase the range of anti photograph. Everybody who came no matter how plain ordinary work if they came in my door and said their remarkable I said I wanNA know why. Tell me show me and you know they would take off the clothes. Show me the scar. They would tell me the stories they would. It would show me. They've got three breasts there. I mean people showed me. It was kind of amazing. So what did what did you end up learning about people's self perception as a result of that as a lovely question really I mean I think what I saw when I learned is is that all of us are equally vulnerable. We look in the mirror. We you know put on makeup it Komar hair get dressed But when we're out in the world where we're all a little uncertain as to how we're perceived and so meeting these people and on listening to them. Tell me a little bit about themselves. What what happened to me as if they could deliver something of their humanity in humanity their their tenderness? You know the compassion for themselves and and others. They became more oranmore real to me. They weren't just a facade of a person who's combed hair perfectly put on lipstick perfectly. It's a mask but if the mask can be opened a little bit so that they they come through the mass. It's as if the mask foles away and this vulnerable human being inside vibrates for a moment in front of the camera. I see that they humanity. Manitoba is three. is their reality. Believe me there were people who never could release the humanity. They stayed in pose old time. And in those cases I often felt how scared they were how they will holding on for dear life in some some way they learn trying to just keep their outside image present rather than reveal something more. Are you in special about themselves. Their secret innocent so not every picture is a success in that where he some of them may look good on the surface picture in the book that I didn't want in the book and for some reason the art director of the book kept on coming back this picture picture I would say to him. I don't it's I. It's a picture I don't really care about anymore or now it's in the book and I tell you every time I page the book I hit that picture. It's like a dead spaw. Aw and now the book is going to go into a second edition and I'm GonNa go back and say I want to take that personnel. Because it's like there's nothing there I you know I back and I don't know why he chose. What was he like? Maybe she had a camouflaged top pot or something like that but she is the one person this group of pictures actions who doesn't deliver anything doesn't let us know anything about yourself. I think would be a good. It'd be a good reason to keep it in there. Because I think that's part of the reason. Yeah Yeah I think it is because I think that that's one of the things I've I've experienced when I'm mountain camp with a camera is people come up to me and say take my picture and I never declined an opportunity to do that but when I thought about what that's about into some degree I always think this is. This is this person declaring. I want to be seen which means to some degree there. They feel like they're not being see mine. And and sometimes they they give themselves or like you just said they try to be very in control of what they're giving over but it's still coming from the very same need need and it's really kind of interesting. Sometimes to see people like fairly giving themselves. I mean completely. Open the moment and other people who asked me to make their photograph and still resist giving it over and sometimes that tension itself for me becomes interesting listing the said rather than fighting fighting fighting to try and then giving it to me. It's like okay. If that's what they're willing to give up that's telling in of itself and that for me becomes an interesting photograph because of just that true the inability to reach their potential. In a way the they're fair you could call it. Failure The human factor. And it's true quite a number of times. I photograph people who were incredibly shy. You know but they're shyness was beautiful. You could feel the effort. It was taking them to project themselves and and feeling that many incredibly sensitive to him tenderhearted to that and so I agree with you there completely lately. I've shown those kinds of pictures and there are some in this book. To and I treasure I treasure those moments because you know our vulnerability it expressed in many different ways. How that looks is is important for other people to see it because they may recognize themselves in the qualities of the picture of the people in the picture that looking at a recognized that it isn't everybody trying to look like a movie star? It was people who are. You're putting up the best front that they could or trying to give themselves in their best way is lovely. It's really lovely and I I back. I feel. It was such a gift to be able to make that addition to my life that I had a chance to understand what portraiture portraiture really entailed and and it made me feel. Even greater. Respect to history's great portraitist. You know a August Sander and the Dr Back in Paris in the eighteen forties diarmid unbelievably remarkably beautiful portrait. They seem so contemporary today. Even with the clothing of the era the people and the way he related to do you just go through the history. See these incredible portraitist who put so much on the law. I knew they. They had to go out day after off today. Even at J. on the streets of Paris he I always feel at J.. Must have been incredible talker Muslim. Treat Street wise guy because he was an actor I and then he became a photographer. And he knows how to talk to those peddlers on the street on those observe street musicians and and the the sellers of birds of fruit he stands there and somehow they in all their nineteenth century stillness give him something of their magical persona and you know I said with those pictures I look at them and I. I'm transported back in time and I think we have such a gift in our lives to be able look at photography from across all the ages and seeing what people look like and how. They responded to the photographer photographer. Hardly any different than we are. Just the clothing is different than the instruments different but human beings are still looking looking at one another affection or curiosity or you know resistance. I mean it's it's I think that probably many actress could probably be really good photographers because they study humanity and one of the interesting things about photographing people at different stages stages of their lives. Is that even though. We're all very different for all very much the same and I think about the images that you made of the prepubescent kids you. You know. Twelve thirteen where. They're just discovering their awkwardness and that takes shape in their physicality in terms of how their front of the camera or or someone a woman suze reaching middle aged or man. WHO's you know? Entering in his seventies and the way they sort of experienced themselves the way they physically manifest themselves in the world but especially in front of the camera. Then if you're observant you get to see those similarities and sometimes that can provide you as the photographer the curious to what to look for and I'm wondering and I'm wondering that considering your years of experience observing people both on the street and in terms of portrait session. What would you say some some of those things that you have come to recognize or to look for beyond just see the physicality of just a gesture you know? Everybody at every stage of the ally is attaining wisdom. Ev even a child you know by the time they get two three four five. They've learned many things along the way how to be themselves how to get what they wanted how to behave in certain situations. We're always always adding knowledge to our way of understanding our cells in the world and the world as it is and and I think that when a photographer confronts and other person to make a portrait photographer who's lived long enough to have have observed the world and start making some kinds of determinations as to what seems me like we have our own dictionary of observations that lead us to understand other people in some way through their outward physicality we have experienced so much that we recognize patterns is really what it comes down. And I think you're confronted with the B eight-year-old rolled or the eighty year old. And you recognize the way. They hold their head the way they're set of their shoulders. Are they still still coming in growing or are they giving up on a hiding or are they showing are the playful four or are they shy. I mean there are all these human characteristics that are being offered by the person that you are standing in front of and so I think by making in the observation and beginning to understand that that's like the first understanding understanding of the other person you say to yourself okay. I recognize these characteristics. This person is like this and so your your innate understanding helps you to assist that person in being more of themselves themselves. You'll know what to say. You know how to Futz around with the camera for a minute to give them a breather so that they could go back into themselves again and come aw. I think that you recognize the innate wisdom of all ages as you stand in front of these people and if you have respect for that if the recognition is meaningful enough you can draw that quality eighty from them into your photograph. That's what makes photograph. Look so good. Why do you think the an artist's photographs are as powerful powerful as they are? She did the work she went in and she went to see them into home. She stayed with them. I mean she moved moved in. It wasn't just a snapshot on the street. Although certainly there were those but when there was an opportunity to engage in their lives she went further further. And I I think that that kind of commitment. Only enriches your own understanding of human nature as as well as your own visual intelligence about how to make these pictures more meaningful. I love what you said earlier about. When you would approach people on you would not say can can I make your photographing would say I need to make your photograph? Which I think is? That's coming from the very core of of respect for another human being as you can as Darfur but during that time that you're making these images that that need was also about you making an effort effort for rediscovery. Of what photography was. It could be for you so now that you've had all these years of experience making sweater portrait portrait. How is that need different when you choose to make a portrait? I know I have to say that. It's it's true I I did need to learn about myself and about what a portrait is but that need doesn't go away just because I understand understand more now when I I still make portrait so people particularly Italy where I spend a lot of time. I think I think it's the same fascination when I see somebody whose whose life is written on them in June interesting way and I get the call because I haven't become lazy. I still get the call and I still follow the call. I crossed the distance and I say sometimes sometimes in Italian I need. It's it's like a validation or verification of human human interaction nature. I don't think that goes away. What does often away to second? There is a change I was in life the forties and fifties when I made those pictures. Iowa's I'm twice as old now and I had that need as a young man. Dan and I use a young man charm. A young man's playful this eighty year olds. You come across very differently. I go over to some young women with children and I say I want to take on the makeup photograph. I need to make photographs. There's always a little bit rid of fear that crosses their faith but this guy want from us because my charm factor doesn't work the hair had and also it's really the truth you know any age has assets to it and indefinitely the time we're living here where the proliferation of cameras in phones has made everybody. Photographer has also posted hosted some challenges because people are wary. They're afraid of what you're GONNA do with their picture on the Internet nick full of them or make trouble for that. It's a different kind of attitude out there. What nervousness life I find myself so I I have to away refashion? Meyer approach so that I play the role of eighty year old artist. Who will lead to make this picture for whatever? My reasons are so in a way. I have to be even more convincing now. Because I don't have that the smooth talking jive with when I was on my God is really sort of embarrassing to say this but you know now in all honesty. That's the reality. Everyone's GonNa face every young photographers someday. If they're still making pictures photographers they're going to have to figure out how to do it. Because I'm I'm sure that I got away with a lot more when I was sixteen with a camera than I do. Now sure you you had visibility and innocence and the charm of waking up to the richness of the world. Yeah you I've had a lot of things going for you and once you more knowing people they can misread your intention easily. It's okay. It's another challenge to work within right now for me. Living in Italy I am. I don't speak the language perfectly although I communicate I have to be. I have to really be on my toes when I I want to do. These kinds of were formal portraits. Have to be on my job as take the challenge of not speaking the language in terms of having to communicate to them what you want and what you need in in that moment probably a little more interesting for us as well. Well it's also you know it's interesting you know when you listen to a person speaking English with a Frenchaccent Italian acts NYU chalked. It sounds so good because it's it's your language but it's newly shaped with an accent and sometimes the road construction but you're okay charmed by. That's what works for me. I I make I can say what I want. I might not use the perfect phrasing but the meaning is clear her and my earnestness and my and my effort to speak their language is immediately. Embraced was always yeah. It's like so sweet so sweet genuineness sincerity bigotry. Long Way it does and you know I feel. It hasn't ended photography right now at this age is still still lively engaging and exciting. I still get that same kind of heated up at animated responds on the things. I even sometimes dash out into traffic. I try to get that to chase that person across the street. I'm a little more. Take careful now because I'm not as fast as I think. It's interesting to analyze what age has done to the way I make photographs now because it's like an athlete you know it's like Mohammad-ali getting into the ring when he was fifty you know he's he's like he don't have that speed he has wisdom but it doesn't have speed stamina power your powers failing on the one hand but your understanding understanding and your wisdom grown on the other so one has to find a way of bringing age and knowledge image limitations and advantages is the sense to focus on the art that you WanNa make less than we talked you. Were you. Were talking to me about the life that you're doing in. Tuscany was part of that related to that. Well it could be some in some sense because because I think there are a lot of factors that went into beginning to ask the question about what is a still live in photography. It's it's just another interesting question. That photography throws up but it also had location factors. It was the summertime. The temperature was so hot it was hard to be outside in the middle of the day so I was inside i. I wanted to take advantage of being inside and do something I'd never done before. I like like the idea of doing things in the near dark. Rather than in the light on no for the Light Cape light all that stuff so this was in the Dr. It's sort of the opposite and also I think there's a period of reflection that everybody will go through at some point or another about all that you've done and what's undone and in this case in my late seventies I started to look hard at singular things rather than at the the. The open ended characteristics of the street. I started to see that some objects often had a kind of mystique to them. And that if you turn the object around there was like nothing nothing nothing and then sock finally returned it to the last turn and there was something about the shape shape. The Dent discoloration the light on the scratches on the surface. Something and then you saw the spirit here. It is the object as if every inanimate thing has quality you know you could walk along the beach and look at a thousand thousand stones in the course of an hour but you only pick up to. One of them was heart-shaped and the other looked like a puppy. And those two jumped out and you reach down for them. It's as if this his spirit coal to you and said he borrowed pick me up. I want to show you some and I think that's what happened to me. My my life changed my age. All these things allowed me to consider really for the first time the spirit that some objects may have good Gordon Parks had a similar similar period for himself. And I think he was in his seventies when he started started painting these watercolors and he had a a two to level glass coffee table in his apartment which I saw what I got the chance to visit him. And he would paint these watercolors put him on the lower Shell and then he would take these found objects and he put it on up on the top and then you shoot down and and then he had like several three or four books I think in which he had those images along with poetry they did he had written as well so it was really fascinating to see if dog refer who was known largely for his sort of photojournalism documentary. Work doc sort of revisit. The still life I don't know to what degree his physicality prohibited from doing. The work was more largely known for whether whether whether this was just another outlet for his photography because he was he was doing everything he was composing. He was writing. He's you know he's still doing all that stuff. When I met him in seventy okay so I just kind of make the connection between the two of you anyways my this is I just got a copy of his book? The his his memoir were what whatever and was given to me as as a gift by young woman. Who I I did a favor for? I'm looking forward to it because I also met him and in nineteen sixty three or four Tony Ray Jones and I used to hang out with gordy junior his son who enforced. I am delighted early and we were like a tree on the streets. We would hang out with music together. We used to go to dance parties together at some point I met his dad. You know and we were like you know Gaga Young Photographers with Gordon Parks. But he was so Kline signed welcoming an interesting and he was so dashing young. I know why how is what it is to be a photographer. You know it was. He was special. I never saw him again. After Gordie junior died in. I always wanted to say sorry. Few lost awesome. I never had the opportunity. Well my last question which I ask each gases. I asked them to recommend another photographer for listeners. To discover and explore on their own and it can be anyone so many long admired or someone. You've recently discovered photographer. Begin y well have you interviewed interview Gusts Powell. I think I have been talked in talking. been talking to him about doing it but I believe I have so many people. This is episode. Five hundred. Branillo asked me who I've interviewed and I just go along. Well okay. Well I think you may have. There's there's a visit pay right now. I mean actually. There were many who work. I'm engaged with right now but is a guy named Rob Stevenson in New York. Who Works large-format eight by ten? He's done a few interesting bodies of work and he just produce a beautiful. Oh Book about Florida about the Space Center by by Cape Canaveral and the area around it. It is And Beautiful Little Book Small Publishing House you know and I happen to get his book and Gus Powell's Book Family car trouble from both of them at the same day we all met together in each us gave the other books and those two books are both breath so generous and tenderhearted and intimate had made of ordinary materials. But have a kind of I duNno a vision a vision of the world. Is they see today that I I've I've sat with these unfortunate. I just brought him down to Italy and and in fact I went to the photographers gallery in London. Two days ago to order those two book so I could have copies here. And I believe I believe that they're important contributors to the ongoing development of photography that uses old values but stays contemporary. And I I think it's so important to see this union between the old hold and the time that we live in I have great respect for them and I got mad respect for you Joel as you will know you know. I couldn't think of a better the person to interview for my five hundred episode fourteen. Th Year doing this it's one of the gifts of the show that we become friends and that have had so many opportunities to sit down and talk with you so a special thanks to you and the best to you this year wife and just you know. Thank thank you for everything you've given me and I I really on this opportunity to be under five hundred and I think I was in your first first year or two like why ninety a five or six zero six two thousand seven Nevin. When I was doing I did the the World Trade Center book? Rhyme you in person but it's always been a pleasure from the year really special barracks exc. Thank you for doing this again. Thank you thanks to Joel. All for sharing his wisdom and insight with us find out more about him and his work by visiting. Joel MEYROWITZ DOT COM. I have several workshops scheduled this year the first first one is next month in Los Angeles as part of La Street. Week held by the Los Angeles Center for Taki. It's a week long. Event presentations workshops workshops and exhibits. I'll be teaching a half day workshop in Hollywood but there will be other sessions as well by other photographers. You can find out more by visiting the link on our site or visiting LIC Fordham Dot. Org I'll be in Washington. DC for the focus on the story festival in the fall and the momentum photographic workshop in August as well as my week long workshop in Tokyo in December you'll find links for each of these on my website and in the show notes. If you're a devoted listen I and subscribe to the show right away review on whatever service you listen to podcasts. Those reviews have led people to take a chance on our show and allowed us to grow along with my recent book making photographs developing personal visual. workflow I just released my latest book. Nine pictures nine stories volume two the first one got a great response. And I'm back with follow up where I discussed stories behind nine images that I created last year. It's just eight dollars in your purchases another way you you can support the show. Purchase that in any of my previous e books by visiting the website. You can also subscribe to our Youtube Channel and our mailing list on the Youtube Channel. I don't offer critiques on images submitted by listeners like you while the mailing list keeps you updated with all. TC events including special events workshops and more MM sign up today and remember you can support the show by contributing to our Patriot effort or donating through pay pal. And if you found that you can't find every episode out of the show. Download the Canterbury. Mac which is available for both apple and Android and because of your generosity. It's free to download and use WHO's no additional purchases are acquired the game frame audio engineer. Is Martin Taylor. You can find any other. Martin Taylor Dot Com the show senior producer. Cynthia Parker Parker and our music is from Kevin mccloud. WHO's royalty free music can be found an incompetent dot com and this is ebonics and this is the candidate for I am?

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S2 E32: Mueller, Nadler, Biden, Chili Davis, The Glengarry Leads, "Gene Simmons" And More!

The All New Dennis Miller Option

1:14:12 hr | 1 year ago

S2 E32: Mueller, Nadler, Biden, Chili Davis, The Glengarry Leads, "Gene Simmons" And More!

"This is Dennis Miller option, your source of opinion, stories and laughs from comedian, and inactive, est, Dennis Miller and his guy Friday, Christian Blat. What's up Hiroshi? Let's light, this candle who ladies and gentlemen. Dennis Miller, a folks, welcome to the Dennis Miller option somebody from Dallas, right outside American Airlines arena, which is where the Mavs play, we're under tornado ward. And I have so little to talk about. The, you know, full on hit from a Fukushima scale. What's the Fujitsu scale, there's something for tornadoes, it, you never heard Dorothy use it. It's not like they're anti 'em. It's a Fujitsu and an old movie. When have the bus kill me with all that stuff. We're in a Fukuyama all of a sudden the straw man or whatever the hell he was called his paid as Carrie. Can want Nabi. Thank you might have Geeta scale, my fresh here, tells me, what's your name, brother? I sitting in with me for the hour done here in Texas, Fujita scale, and you have Watanabe stepping in, and you'll get in data Sela. I know I'm supposed to talk loud, like Henry Higgins. But this is how he talked in the fuck and movies. Give me a break, Asian people that you're out on the ledge of the pagoda about to kill yourself lighten up. He speaks pretty Chuck. I saw him in king, and I by the way in London, and it was divine the way that worked there, because, you know, he's the king of Siam, and he's not supposed to be an elocution, est and indeed, it, worked sweetly there. But in God's Zillah it seemed to me, somebody who was always trapped in a room with a double pane window, and he would walk up and they'd all be seeing godzillas common, and then he would do the Jimmy Smits Victor Cifuentes thing where he'd go knows gercy of what would he meets Godzilla? I've been watching these films since negotiator. And he would also chime in with the gems like let them fight. I think he had back in money on a goes Zillah hat. Really good. Sylla's been so trademarked. Everybody gets a cut of that all the way through Jack Warner. So I think what Nabi comes in and says, listen, I'll pretend mystical ninja and I'll call it goes Zillah, and I want forty percent rose points. And they say fuck your show. You should flirty Lisa deal. You got lots where I'm I'm about. I'm in the middle of a tornado and it's thirty miles away, but you never know where they turn. That's the thing about tornados. You know, they're like Mitt Romney ago, wherever the votes are. What what happened today? We'll talk about that in a second. I know this is gonna one is this place play be tomorrow weeks from me so out of sequence ligament, an auto premature Phil Danis today is Thursday, may thirtieth and happy birthday to my wife, who I know listens. You full. Happy birthday in Wai. Wait a second. Your wife's Asian, isn't it? Yeah. She's Chinese K Chinese. Here we go up. Boy, you happy. He. Day you. Go ahead. I'm sure she's crying now. But it's because she loved it not. Hey, you. Hey, you know, you say go the shit storm all the blanche of why Asians now who are ruined by that. Can't get out of bed hanging. There, folks everybody buck up, we've all turned into pussies. So there you go. We've got a D push afire selves. That's my, my goal here. D- Pacific -ation of America. Better king than I did. Because I saw it with Lou diamond Phillips in the lead. No, I sure did. That was a see phantom. Four-times. Michael Crawford was never a one night. I'm in my seat, and they go Michael Crawford sick tonight. Dennis Miller's playing. I, I don't even know the book. I just bought a ticket. I had to jump up and I said, what do I do? And they said, I here, put this half mask on and pretend you're inventory sky. That's what I did. People hated it. Now, I have gone a couple times, Michael Crawford was not there. One time. It was a young kid and other time. It was Gary Coleman. Unbelievable. It was great. He was unbelievable. Because the tunnels, they, they had to build the tunnels allot less scale. And they saved a lot that ninety gave us something off on our ticket. I thought that was nice. I said, why is they will usually when the phantom walks through here, you know, Crawford's around six one? We need head space. And I said, well, how big is Gary and I swear, let's just say this, the phantom mask is a complete Komono. And now we're back deja, and every. Because I walked, the dirt garb, I just came from a beautiful gar exhibit here, by the way in Dallas at the Dallas museum of art. And I have to say they did a great job. It was a traveling Christian. Dior not Christian was traveling Christian Blat tour, finding shirts polled callers. It was a traveling Christian Dior show. And I hear there's one at the bay. In. I think that's the name of the museum where I saw the bully exhibited in London. The Manet think it is, are they are as something Royal and ancient, and it might be Arnie anyway. It's a beautiful yet Emon as Emo, MA that's near Smith. And he's called the are and they always do the mothership installations. And I'm going to see a Dior one there. Sometime in the next month or so. But I saw a road show as it were of this one. And if this was the road show, I cannot even imagine, I'll beautiful, this is going to be I have to say that I did not know but it it's obviously hatched by a guy named Christian Dior and the old man does it for maybe ten twelve years and then becomes America's status in. Then they bring in a twenty to twenty one year old, I couldn't quite tell from the right on the cusp Yves, Saint Laurent, who just looks like a young, you know, it's like a gay, Jimmy Neutron, or something, just, but a genius. And then up other people take it over, and one named ho van, you can see he kind of takes it into a business model because the stuff's nice, but it looks more precise. But then they bring in, I'd say this man in my limited knowledge of my limited knowledge of fashion. I'd hey, there, have to say the ones that I've seen who have struck me as geniuses or John Galliano, and he Saint Laurent, and who is crazy Karl Lagerfeld. He's crazy saloon. But he is a bit of a genius and not half as crazy as you'd think when you see him interviewed, I really got solid conservative values off him that there's a great show on Netflix, Skuld the week before, and it's the week leading up to things. And they did a week leading up to his, and pardon me, as I try French here, and I'm not good at a coat you show in Paris, and stunning stunning, where can he seemed like a flat genius, and rest is soy just died, but he also seemed like a guy who? Did not give a shit about what you thought about him. And I'm always enamored of that. So I went to see this show and it was an amazing show if you go to it and. If it's touring. I don't know. It's in Dallas right now I saw was in Denver put together by the people. In Denver comes to your city, a highly recommended. It's just you realize that as much as I find fault with some of the quirky surface issues of fashion. The everything old is new, again, the finding the right phrase to reintroduce old tropes. The ochre aren't nature of it, the in and out nature of an all those things bother me at the end of the day. There are around a dozen guys and gals on the earth who understand beauty in garb, and when it's exhibited in, in the fashion, I just saw it really is. I'm hardly Andre Leon Talley. But it it's invigorating is you goosebumps beautiful. The stuff is in the they had footage on how long it takes to make pair, the shoes and caught a jacket and geniuses in their own way. Speaking of. Genius. I'll be performing this Friday may thirty years. I'll be very ping Suzy Parker. You know, he park is, she was one of America's first supermodels, if not, these super model, her name she ended up marrying the great Brad for Dilmun, take a dump, and I'm gonna look up her gams. Well, she was a statue us, beauty, an American Beauty sort of Christie Brinkley, but taller and more fashionable way before I'm not putting Christie Brinkley done. She knows that there's a certain sort of high fashion model and then there's sort of beautiful healthy American Girl. Motto can do Ralph Lauren polo and stuff like that. But Suzy Parker I think the birth of it, and they had a beautiful picture of the was the genius photographer. The, the model's name is no Vena, and I'm blanking on the photographer's name, but it's her with the elephants, you've seen that pose, right? There's a beautiful picture of a model named. No vima. If you can look it up. And I know as soon as you say the naming you forgot that you remembered no Vima, but you for Richard Avedon he takes a picture of her in an evening. Down surrounded by elephants and her. Right. Hand is splayed out onto the elephants trunk? She's literally grabbing it note the elephant on the left has so much debris on his back. It's a stunning photo. It's, it's I something about, I don't quite album. I was maybe interpreting it to roszak in, but it was something about the beauty of the world holding in abeyance the bee's, the dirty piece, although I like an ice elephant trust me, but you didn't want to see the elephant in this dress. But I it's just an amazing. I think it might be the most famous picture in fashion history. So it give that a look, if you get a chance and look at Thai Thai is beautiful man. I have had guys I've worked with for years, Christian, never fly off my way. It's like I'm Joey Chitwood on a Vespa look over. Where's the other guys not there? This cat is beautiful. He's got the photo up in front of me. Rice tie. Old may. I think the, the safe distances why we continue to work together after fifteen years. Christian, those that I'm of live spotted character to be handled with isotope farms. You gotta be on the other side of the Andromeda glass. 'cause I highly visible -tarian to thirty five. I just touched myself and did the thing. Thing. Anyway, I'll be performing this Friday at the IP casino. No taping of my show. I want any I- piece. Left. Thai just quit because he's bleeding from the writing fractured. Some oh, he just told look the skies genius. He just put up on my screen is he's a member of deigned use station to club charter member. I just reflect up Zia station to anyway, whereas the IP casino and resort. You ask it's in Biloxi Mississippi and MIS ISS I p p I will be there. Laughs. June eight in Honolulu. Hawaii aloha. I think on a Lula's pretty liberal state. Right. This is my sales, they're kind of poi-. He just rooms shut. All the good will tired. Do you think they've ever hired anybody to do rim shots and porn? Oh. When there's there are porn films that are everybody has their, their thing. And there's some that are, you know. Let's just say Orpheus problems. And I'm wondering if they have anybody just for on beyond. So the set I, I know the John Ford is to have a mariachi band on his sets. I think as directing porn film, and it had the anal participation, and I might have somebody there with drama, simple just to do. Little room shot. One. Get out of this. I'm not going very far in a rush still uncomfortable. Sometimes I just forget, don't kid yourselves. There's no such thing as a good excuse for not appealing up. If you've used any of these excuses or any others, you're putting yourself at risk of injury or death at this in twenty seventeen more than ten thousand people were unbuckled when they were killed in crashes. That's fifty one percent of people killed motor vehicle crashes that were not not wearing seatbelts. No matter what kind of vehicle, you drive, wearing your seat belt as the best defense in a crash, even when you sit in the back seat is still need the buckle up. Not also goes for taxes. When you use ride sharing services. Cops on the lookout and writing tickets. So why take the risk as I said in two thousand seventeen alone? Here's the upside seatbelts save nearly fifteen thousand lives. Do the smart thing. And buckle up every trip day or night. Click it or ticket paid for by our friends at nitsa. What are we going to talk about? We have a guest, the guest is the audience. I gotta find a good restaurant, Dallas, by the way, because I ate a two restaurants. Just say, I don't want to be the American comes into town and says the names. But one of them in one of the articles, I read was the top rated restaurant and the other one was the nineteenth raided rest on, I might have caught a bad. They I'm not saying I'm not saying their names. So I only do that because I'm an interloper here and I don't want to come in and act. Like I know it's not exactly like my palate, is that educated? But tie where can I go to be assured of a good meal tonight is going to tell you what a bird like something Tex-Mex hobby airs? All right. We'll remind me of that, when we're finished because I gotta get local knowledge because I'm going off these lists like eater dot com and it has thirty eight. Things on it. And I've tried to the thirty eight so I'm one nineteenth in, and if the food had gotten any more troublesome it to two places I was at I would have tried to ask them done. Shane me from the ore and ask the drum guide to slow down a little because it was bad food. Lovely people. I'm just saying what are you gonna do? I cut too bad meals. Oh, what happened today? Just before I came in, I think Robert Muller, is that his name Muller Muller Muller Muller? I think he's an asshole I, I really do. And I don't think he's an asshole listed if he'd found Trump guilty after two years. That's not. I think he I think he cares about what people think about him to me when you hold a press conference, and you take no questions for of awed precious little precious for me. And when you say in that eight to nine minutes, you are going to let the report speak for itself. And then you have a couple of caveats. That's gotta cares about his image. I think he wants to ride off into the sunset. I don't think he found anything on Trump. I think he realizes Trump's radiactive. I think he's going to go to Sally, quince Christmas party, and not be seated in the anteroom, he's going to have to stay involved on there. I think his wife, probably said listen, I don't want to be a pariah. I don't wanna be Hester prynne in this neighborhood now because you didn't find anything on Trump. So he split the difference. He goes out, and he talks about. I am here today to tell you that it almost reminded me of Komi when he did that fourteen minutes thing, where it was all about all the laws. She had broken it. And at the end he does the used to be a ride in the amusement parks called the wild mouse. It was like a roller coaster, but it was all built on right angles, and carriage was the thing that shifted seed get down to the end of it. And you'd look like you're going to go over and then made hard left, that was Komi speech to me the wild mouse. And today, I was thinking, well, what if you don't wanna talk? And if you're saying you won't talk in the future. And by the way, the moment that thing goes into where he drops out. It can be subpoenaed like any of us any of us, and he has to show up, but he sends that preferable note that my testimony will be the same as it is. In the report, I want to let the report speak for itself. Nonetheless, I'm gonna come before you today. I'm gonna take no questions because I want to report the speak for itself. But I've got a couple of explanation. On a couple points. It's bullshit. I think. I don't know what am I to think that he doesn't want to buzzkill Chelsea Sandler's crush on him. Or what? But all I know is, I think he's a little more self serving than they let on. And we'll, we'll see if he's who's the equivalent of Jerry Nadler, if I was at the hot. No, if I was, I think, is now Senator a congressman. He's a congressman right? I believe, so I who gives a shit. But if there's a corresponding panel under Lindsey Graham, I would have a subpoena out to Robert Muller this afternoon. It's like any old courtroom thing, you say where you, you know, they say have your counselor bring it up before they can bring it up. They're going to bring this down on the, you know, Jerry, Nadler's going to get hold of him. And he'll crack Nadler's genius interrogator. He was the guy who broke let's shake up if they're gonna play. They're gonna play good cop fat cop with him. I don't want to ask you the tough questions. But, you know, Jerry now there might have to come in here. Jerry Nadler has more bands inside of them than. Allison. Shirt member in him. It was a sweet reference. Alison American pie band Camco. Oh, Alison Hannigan. And again. He has more bands inside of and. Alyson Hannigan in American pie. Not Lindsey some podcast together so that so that it would seem like he said at the first week we leave it like that. Yeah. He's a congressman. You're right. I'm sorry. Tie was playing the adult here in pointing out the Jerry net. What were you over there? Jabber walking about. I was. Did you know? She's also with doogie howser and. His name swipe, you'll get wacked. Toby steelers. Smucker's abor shut up, Chris. I'm doing a radio. No, you're not. Oh, like I couldn't do a radio show. Come up. I mean you could but are there radios anymore? I don't even know listen, this podcast might not have no listeners. But it's not because it's not listenable. We're going to get the stream of consciousness. That's why we're firmly cemented. One tar below the bronze medal. Stand in the podcast. All alright what are we gonna do? Today. Christian we've got a lot of study wanted just hit me with a lot of topics or. Oh, yeah. You wanna do this, citing part of the pocket, we got folks we all come together organically. We don't know where. Anything can happen and usually won't. Hey, by the way, what Conforto slam last? Yes. The game I didn't go to be going tonight. So they'll probably lose nine and nothing. But so you were at Kershaw degrom. No, I didn't go to that one either. My son went. I hear Conforto last night was talking about canot game. But tip as he stepped in. He said, I don't know who's, who's the hitting coach for now for the Mets. It's some old player. I remember reading the name, but canot said to Conforto stepped in, he's going to try to get you to hit into a double play. So the guy comes in with some high cheese. Conforto gets on top of and parks, it chili Davis is the batting coach and the ISIS could afford OSA from now on Kono's my hidden. Chilly over this. Thanks for that comes up to you with the most nebulous note I've ever heard. Try to get you to hit into a double play. Well, thank you. Iota chili Davis over there, putting the ball in the fucking t it's a hundred ten degrees in port Saint Lucie that there for two hours. And by the way, chili Davis turns up in that great rob Schneider tape that he sent me. I've sent you that Christian. You must have you've told me about it, but I've never actually I have. CD of L send to you. I can't even tell the story anymore because we live in such times, but it's, it's a story that a San Francisco giant radio announcers telling during a game when chili Davis is still playing. It must be twenty to twenty five years ago, and it's about a developmentally disabled kid in Detroit attending baseball camp. And the he intertwines it with report, Taj of the game. And in doing, so it's about the wrong thing you ever near life. Rob Schneider happened to be listening to it when he was writing, and we were really close at that time. And when the guy said, we'll be right back with the story of a developmental disabled kid, trait ghetto and him. It chili. Davis baseball Robson. I put the taper. For the next twenty minutes this guy calls the game. And it'll be stuff like. Candy, Maldonado took the kids, aside ashore, Jimmy's different than you. He's an unused. He uses the words. Hurt. Anybody that word was not as verboten then that was the word we had for that. We didn't we weren't replacement. You said he's, he's retarded and he can't play like you. So they let him hit a dribbler and run it out. You know that whole story but he's interrupting it with sure Jimmy's different than you. He's retarded jelly Davis step in. And he twins too, and it's so. You can't believe that he doesn't see horrible mistake. This is. And then at the end somebody grounds that he's doing this thing where he raps the inning up a nice ribbon. He's just thought you'd like to hear that story. Mount, a retarded kid out of the Detroit ghetto bright moment. Another wise, gray, and misty were. His so. So that's chili Davis turns up in that unbeknownst to him. But I can tell the guy's got a good heart is trying to do the right thing, but you either have to tell that story in a rain delay, or it's not interrupted by foul. Literally is he's telling the kids are crying the for space. The poor kid was born with too many chromosomes. Right. It's time for the old style. Big hit of the game. Brought to you by coal refreshing old style beer. Anyway, it's in the hall of fame. And I think I have a CD, you know, who I'm going to have a listening party, because, you know, a mutual friend of ours who will enjoy that. Now more than more than anything. Will be like Lenin. Irking all together. You know whatever that story. I need to hear that, sir. Paul. Listening in you notice that I didn't shake hands with them. Erection on the shoulder your circle. I mean, really what an aunt story. I just I've had close friends in my life. If you've got to a point outside of Bob crane, and Willem Dafoe in autumn. Have you ever sat with a friend? Some sort of co- away, now that is really crazy. Let's, let's silver beater. I mean it's on the, it's on number one list on the group orgy. Handbook is like, no, no, no, not, not that. There you go. That's another radio. All right. So there's, there's a lot of headlines. You know, I'm going to get to some VM's some voicemails from our fans. Yeah. Some VM's that that'd be cool. But just go through some think if there's anything else, I'm watching show called broad church before we sometimes. How far in broad church? Now it's gone off the rails. I you know what I'm thinking honest to God, I think broad church was is a possible. It was meant to be a one-season show. Yes. I think that got picked up. It's really now I'm three in and four better. Start to get a little sensible on out. I mean, you know, the first season was fine. Little hard to watch. Sure. I don't say you can say, anything's popular entertainment when its core issues pedophilia. But there's a lot of that in there, but it's well written and, you know, the proper seriousness is paid to that part of it, and then hard wrought detective the Brits know how to do that whole thing. But I swear to God it seems to me that it should have ended after one because now we're into season two are into the guy's trial, and he he's from season one. And, and then there's a home, other case introduce that I could care less about, you know, it's like some guy who looks like Cumberbatch meets Robert AVI something he's in. He's. Have you seen it? Oh. So then that's why there isn't with. Fuck is that guy every time they show tight t shirt, cutting wood, I'm thinking really. So probably be out lesson episode for somebody says you look handsome today and he goes to gloat and takes his foot off. Yeah. He's always cutting wood with, and then without a foot, then or something to work. Your character is Asian off of when I do Richard third. What do I say Christian? I always kaffir tape my right leg back, put the he'll up against my hamstring, and I work on the limp. Dickey threes. Limped out the rest of it's gravy from me. Trae tickets. Pop version of Richard started. Yeah. These are the things that you should message to Konya instead of giving them away for free on the podcast. I admire him immensely, and I didn't for years. But I, I don't think he admired himself isn't funny. When somebody Myers themselves to some degree or gets their self esteem together at allow, you know, some people want that patently shy thing all the time. Where's your pawing the ground with your feet, and averting gazes? I don't want that if the guy's got something to say, well, you know, when he's loaded on Hennessy grabbing a young girls Grammy away from her. Ama it looks like an ASO. Guess what? I think if you ask me, so. Yeah as a minimum Astle, but I admire him now for stepping out got gotta do these John Rourke angrier than John gulled sort of things we step, and you take the heat. And you, you know, who also I if, if you're not an objective, you bridal at those three people and indeed, I'm reading atlas shrugged again. And I find it. I don't I'm not enjoying it as much this time because. Her her fantasies of, you know, sort of stern. Let's say love, it's just the sight of sort of being de it's you know, it's a little tedious. It's overawed at threaten, like a harlequin romance novel. Now, the message of it. I find invigorating but also all the bad guys are super bad, and all the good guys super I agree with that to a large degree in life. I don't the shading thing doesn't work, but there's a couple of guys in there. The could have a little shading. And so, I think if I point out three objectives heroes, I think the easiest ones the one you'd find most palatable are probably hang Grier would be less palatable, because he so strident about ingots and you know. Riveting, and then Secondly, there's. I would say, Dan Konia or John Galt, who's like, in obscure so far seven hundred pages in and then there's a Howard work is palatable, because we think is Gary Cooper, but if you're looking for somebody to admire and contemporary arts or like not in the literature, but rather in the film's, Tyrone, power's, turn Larry Darrell in the razor's edge is absolutely brilliant. It's one of my favorite movies ever. I watched it again. The other night, Robert Osborne, when he was alive told me that one Larry or when gene Tierney, descends the stairs in the house. She staying in, in Paris to go out on the town with Larry and they know it's their last night together for while his favorite movie scene ever in history. And Tyrone power is just I don't know how I don't even know if he was nominated for an Oscar, I don't think but he definitely. It's a it's a it'll last forever that performance he so perfect in that. And there's a scene towards the end when he man on a spiritual search, and there's a little bit of dawn Draper, Christian because another man dies for him. In battle now, he doesn't much more. Nobly doesn't conscripts man's identity. Draper does. But there's that sort of haunted thing where you're now on a journey to find out why that man died, and you didn't, and he so he's on a deep spiritual journey the entire film. You see why billing Mario was attracted to it. And it's but at the end Lifton Webb who plays the him the book end on the experience, capricious man shallow, man, a man, who literally is our VP lifeblood. He's dying and he hasn't been invited to a party that matters to him on the co design, and Larry Darrell goes and flirts with the secretary of the woman holding the party. And she looks away. Elsa Lancaster in a brilliant, little Taryn. He picks up one of the invites and pens in himself that he's inviting him. And he thinks it's the Princess inviting literally lift web reads, the invitation and dies with a smile on his face. So to have the most consequential of men, that's the part that I don't think Iran got it's just to etched in stone that there are some alert to in the Uman experience. But for the most consequential of men to go back and do the most. Insipid act just the lead. This old man happy is such a leavening agent that it really makes perfect. Movie from me. The nominees for that Clifton Webb was nominated did not win, but and Baxter did win best actress in supporting role but Tyrone power's is not nominated. We'll there you go. I don't think you know, you read about those things sometimes in life where somebody isn't that the whole thing, ten polls off of is not nominated absolutely boggles the mind. All right. What topics are up Christian? All right. What happened in the world? Voicemails. Voicemail. Let's have a rap session to it. Let's let's, let's do it. Let's see. We're going to go with an old friend of ours jersey. Joe left. A message for us. This is Joe Dolinsky is or friend. I cannot express my elation at the fact that the prodigal of perfunctory has returned to the air, along with his melodious Caruso, saying, voice, David through, so however. And, and. Added bonus. I will attempt to me saying a little ditty away out, west a name wind and rain and fire awry. Oh my go- and Mariah. I like the actual song. I think it is. I think you want do in Mariah. Well, listen, a nice run at saying, not exactly generals gathered in the nam mass say. Just like witches at black masses. Evil minds that plot the structure. So this construction in fields bodies burn. Mission keeps to and death and hatred to mankind. Poisoning. Brainwash mind. That's listen. I could have been Ozzie Harriet Ozzie Nelson. What about that? What about dad is an L sky? Ozzie Nelson from Ozzie, and Harriet is the front man for Sabbath. Tony Dow from beaver as Tonio me. Pacific. We should get hit their last Ozzy can't his up till then it's possible could carry oak that, but I can't. Then I have to practically have to dress up as a compromise to alter boy to get the. Oh. Cyprus cool. I remember I was in seventh grade, we had a priest come in hipster. Pries the mod squad. Oh, did he ever guitar? That. Love that. Buffy sainte. Marie? He's like twenty three. Comes in. I'm in seventh grade. And he says, well, here's my deal. I'm father. I don't even remember his name, and I've decided at age twenty three to always be broke and never get laid. I remember thinking, well, there's a good idea for you. That's not going to back up. Yeah. They passed the list for altar boys. Stay out of that. Tumble, wait over here. Blown coin. So what's your ass ration- never going to get laid? And I wanna be broke. All right. Well, good luck Nixon that wine up yourself, think I'm going to be there. You put together, the Luton free body of Christ. You gotta go in that known as a lot of Celia. There who believe and as I've said before on the show every two minutes one hates to get one's Lord and savior lodged in one's one. Drink. Plenty of water. Absolutely converts, the wine right at the base of the Assad. Think. I think. Do you know yet to spend her not anymore? I had. Yeah. Allow no, I had a malfunctioning us off. Geel spanked her for a while and took care of it. Before it started a bad influence on my nother painter the moneymakers think there. The other ones that one for weekends are made for. Lighten up. Grab a mic. Anyway, give me some shit some shit. So, you know, I don't much care for the pas. Finger now, by the way, it's from him being away, on the Beverly hillbillies literally, give me the finger. I think he's Christian. He's going to tell you for dinner. So I'm, I'm enjoying the back and forth between President Trump, Joe Biden, so President Trump said that he was sticking up for Biden by calling him, low, I q after Kim Jong UN called him an idiot, and who could possibly be upset by being called low IQ like yeah. Absolutely. I'm on Trump's side on this. Well, listen, you know, I, I liked Trump in many ways that this is one. I Don I don't dig the offshore thing. I just don't I didn't when the, the girl from the Dixie chicks did it, I think, all this shit's readily said, in house, I think, Biden's more on, I think he's a backslapping morning. He's, you know he's not my Cup of tea. I, I, I don't think Trump is on, I think he did something stupid here. I don't think it's the end of the world. And I think the world is used to two years at Trump now that he's not going to be presidential at all. That's fine with me ninety percent of the time. I do know that there are people in North Korea. Who have been killed? I think the kids a pig. I hope we get along with them because we've gotten along with pigs throughout the world. You know, let's face facts, if you can get a pig who's not willing to blow, you up, you're better than having a pig who thinks you're Satan, right? Listen, the Shah of Iran was a crazy motherfucker, but he wanted to go to Beirut once hearing get laid by high end European hookers. So you could talk to him Khomeini thought he had the die before he got to meet high end European hookers. So you couldn't talk to him. It was no leverage. They're so I'd rather have a nut, you know in our pocket. And I think listen, if, if the kid is blown away by knowing friends with Dennis Rodman. You know, he's blown away Trump and he can be buddies to some extent, definite that being said, I do the draw the line at going after buying a narrow that, that is not the end of the world. I you know, I've seen a Bronco Bama standing in a park and Berlin apologizing for America. So, you know, that wasn't the end of the world either, but they both pissed me off. I'd shut it up and you know what I'd do if I was Trump, I would have a camera crew at the top of the stairs as Air Force One landed at wherever it lands. What's it called, you know where the plane lands in DC, I would have camera crew meet me as the door open say, I wanted to tear by new asshole about how stupid he is overseas. But I didn't do it, but I wanted to get to it right away soon as I landed here. It's important to. As soon as it touches down flip the camera, here's what he said about him, but, you know, to do it overseas is charming. Well speaking of Joe Biden, he is. There's an article is reading that he's already taken time off, well, e seventy six men, and he looks frayed. Listen, oddly enough ancient him becoming ancient has served the hair plugs. Well, because all that's blurred out. You know, you look at the front of it now there's plugs there, it's still a fallow field that it's where it's caught up to him. Now is they get wispy on the back end. You know, they get that little old guy flip on the back of their hair. It's like a duck sass of the duck had been shot hanging him. That's where he's looking old. He looks ancient he's been into for water week. Mitch. Mentioned taking time off, it was Memorial Day. I'm staying out of the way, I'm telling you, man, it is a bear that thing. And, you know, when you're out there being Biden, you've got a whole inner firewall that you have to set up between yourself, that can get elected and yourself that wants to be a regular backslap and guy and turns into an ASO on a second. Fake diner, you hallucinated diner. We say Barack Obama's what was the I know you want to say the words because vibe say the words. Now, I'm a klansman, but I swear to God of trumpets said something about Obama being. I'm not going to say there. I won't do it anymore. That's how I play that. The society has gotten so fucking weird. Everybody knows what I'm talking about. I'm not going to say the exact words because I don't want to get caught and paraphrase L. But at once in a while Biden, says something so stupid something about, you can't go into a seven eleven without Indians. I think that's what it was. Nice an hassle. And it got to what does he have the election? Not be an asshole, you know, basically, it's like it. You know, and it's like it's like George Sanders at the end of the children of the village of the damned where he's put a bomb in his briefcase, and he goes to teach the kids, he knows the blow them up, including his son, because they weren't really their kids, their birth by some meteorite, or something, and they're going to take over the world and kill everybody. And they can read his mind. So he has to go and imagine a brick wall, and they work on his mind in the thing until the last second, they see there's a bomb valise. They go to grab for it, but he held them bay too long. That's what Biden has to do with a stupid side to go in there and concentrate on a wall all time. And it takes them out of, and that's why they can only wheel him out every three or four days. Well, that ties right into the articles reading I think, you know, we're seeing that he's the front runner by every measure, including just something he's up eighteen points. But the one way he's not the front runner is, he's not drawing big crowds. So people are saying they would vote for him, but they're not gonna actually go to see him speak. They're not as excited as is listen, that vote is strictly you member in the last election, I said, they can put a ballot that has to boxes on it, one that says Hillary one that says, not Hillary, and I'm going to put an X in the not Hillary box. Let's flip this time you can have. That's all that's all Biden is at this point, they're looking at them and thinking who am I don't even think he has great chance. I think they know that. But they're certainly a he's a good dog. Paddle, you can hold their right? You can float in the Red Sea with him for a while before you start Australian stroking the road who knows who shows themselves. I think it's going to be Hillary, and everybody looks to me and says you're crazy. You watch. I still best campaign is to not campaign. I think she gets a little loaded her sick. I don't quite know what it is. It's one of the two you see her starting to get a little hazy out there. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt. I'll say it's deleterious task and it wears her down, and she starts to exhibit some exhaustion. So that's nothing work for when they're pushing her head like a perp to put her in the back seat of an SUV to drive driver away from his speech. So I think they're saying listen you were out there. You, you don't show. Well, but you can't but there's still a lot of people who give you oddly enough imprimature, and they're there with you for the rest of the time. Probably run thirty five percent over there. Stay out of the way don't run have your Spitzer in the evening. Go out and give a paid speech for two hundred and fifty grand every month or so rail against the powers that be do a minor quibble against one of the twenty two candidates are weeding them. Out, picking off strays as they used to do during the one, they'd escort ships across the Lusitania, they'd always been one that got a little bit outside the vector, and they'd pick it off or in Tari and safari pick out a stray, and then down the road you're down to five or six guys, none of them looked tenable at that point, Biden, Biden said by speaks braggadocio and sick all the less. He knows about something the more he leans into it. That's going to catch up on. Nobody shoots the cuffs after they hit the bed like Joe Biden, and that's going to catch up to him down the road. And then you Gallup in say I don't want to do this. I called by my party and my country to save us from Donald Trump. So that's my idea on Hillary, but Biden's. Listen, you don't mind in the sanctity of your own house saying vote for Biden at the dinner table, or when you're with your echo chamber at work, everybody has one you really, you really going to be the guy, the first guy to dance at the winning, you know, where to Flamenco dancers are getting married and you go out first and you're on the floor. Looking like, you know, you're. Playing Congo's for buckman Turner overdrive. You're such a stiff, of course you don't want to be show up and see a neighbor of yours. And you think wow. We drove twenty miles siege. Oh, biden's. Right. But the thing that you always say, is that nothing would surprise you. So I, I assume you wouldn't actually be shocked if he did become president because we bite everything you just said, would you be surprised or or not? Obviously the math of is anything can happen. I would be shocked shocked and I won't say anything they do about where they're going Joe. But if we go back to a shithead like Joe Biden, and if no other reason that countries should use this as a cudgel in the future, to have the democratic candidate or the Republican candidate B is out there as Trump because this whole thing about the presidency as I said, I think that's all falling apart. I don't view these great men to me. We should go to a volleyball talker ac- where we elect five guys and they rotate, when one of them fucks up the next guy come in, but so I don't look at any of these guys as Jesus Christ. But Biden certainly, one of the stupidest most predictable politicians if that is the yield of four or eight years from Trump, that you're going back to square, one, picking the hacky assed of hacks than indeed the countries. Well, listen in the. Guys being progressive. Certainly they've gotten a lot more square. I mean really just try to think of any other time in history, ABBIE, Hoffman stigma daisy, and a rifle gun turrets and Tiananmen anytime where they were young people rising up to take back the power think about the end of that being Joe Biden and that'll show you how much they hate Donald Trump. Really they're saying invigorates you who do you want to get out there and fight for who do you wanna get the clipboard and the slicker register votes in the rain, for this, only one man, just me that much as only one man, that reminds me, Bobby? Who is it Joe Joe seventy five? He's been a more on for so many years. Listen, anytime, you know what the kiss death is when you exist in politics from age twenty nine hundred seventy five he seems like a nice guy. Can you think of a more tepid indictment? They might as well just take me in the Roman Senate son and put the long knife in at that point after all those years, he seems like a nice guy. Yeah. Well, there's a high aspiration. What did he do? You know what he did? You know, big thing. He did the crime Bill now. There's somebody somebody has to go in, and I don't know why Trump doesn't do this. I don't know why Trump doesn't literally say I'm going out and I'm going to visit the ten major black populations in this country over the next ten days like hustling for other people, I would just announce it I'd say somebody's got to hear this. I'm going to go read the crime Bill to podium in Baltimore Detroit. New Orleans cabrini-green in Chicago. I'm going to go to ten places that have been fucked up for black. People by the Democratic Party. And I'm gonna read this crime Bill that Biden, pushed through and. And then I'll later if they wanna vote for monolithically like they do in the past, they wanna get ninety five percent of their votes. So be it, but I'm at least going to tell them what's going on here. And I don't know. I you know that's one thing. I don't get about. Republicans people always such. I'm not a Republican. I'm fiscally conservative trust radical Islam as far as I could throw it and think we have to lock Antlers sooner the better. And every other thing I'd say, I'm liberal on. But I, I do I am creeped out by the fact that Republicans don't do that more. I think we'll what is that enough? It's racism, I just can't can't figure it or does polling show that it's so etched in what did they freeze Han solo in carbonate. Yes, they did. Yeah. Well, maybe votes, so frozen in carbonite canning go there, but somebody ought to be out there. I would literally make it a tour. I wouldn't do this thing where they go pures Trump's showing up periodically I denounce it. I just listen. I'm losing ninety five percent of the black vote in this country. These idiots have got them in this jam, when the great society took over in nineteen seventy five the single parent birth rate in the ghetto was twenty one percent now after fifty two or whatever fifty five years of it, it's up in the seventies say, that's the yield of this stuff in the disenfranchised communities enough, it should just go say that these long speeches if I was him. I would go hang a little, I would you know, they're always talking about. Oh, and, you know, if he does not do that, I'll have to wonder what will what is what is wrong? I would do that. This time through is. That's one thing I don't get about Republicans and you know what listen, I think abortions in many cases, those late term are just flat out. Murdered a me. I'll say that out loud, I think in the first three months of it. None of my business. I'll be honest with you. I it's just I don't know. I don't know or care enough about strangers to get that involve when their life when they've got life in that I assume that God settles up with them, if it's wrong down the road, I do believe in God. I know people do use I do I go once a week, I prayed a gun in the church, I don't go to the mask because I don't believe in that anymore. But I do believe in God and I say my prayers, and I figure, he'll Seto up on the tote board at the end of the day, if somebody's done something caused Mickley wrong, but to think that I would be presumptious enough to think. I'm smart enough to start lecturing strange women who have a at that point at the beginning of the pregnancy. Something in them. That some people will say as a child, some people say is not a child and what I'm going to come in and say, well, here's what I think what I think is. I don't know to stay out of their way on that. But I do find it off when a state rules that if you're a victim of incest, or rape, the not supposed to get an abortion that seems I don't get that. So there people say, well, would your robot. I don't even know if they're bonafides that's just common sense to me, a family member. And you were having a baby. And you find out about it right away, and you're not, I don't get that. So sorry. I guess that makes me I'll probably be hated by both sides on that. But all I know is this at the end of the day, I willingly concede, I'm not smart enough to figure stuff like that. That's cosmic stuff. So that being said the individual can make their call. If somebody extracts baby in the seventeenth eighth month. I think they. I think they've murdered somebody do any one else in terms of those what they're referring to is heartbeat laws. One of them is pending in Georgia. And there's a lot of TV and movie production that happens there, so net flicks is the first studio that said that they're going to strongly reconsider their plans for production in Georgia, if Pat and do whatever they won that flicks passed on me because they've unfunny jerk off. Sorry. They made that decision in a heartbeat. Pitch for three seconds. No pass. Hey, do whatever they want. But you know what? This is a great time to mention that your latest special fake news. Real jokes is available on Amazon prime. So you know you up beautiful. Alec baldwin. Always be closing put the coffee. Nothing funny to me. Alan Arkin, the no. That add Harris. Yeah. Whole. Last seventy percent of the movie is nothing but these leads are shipped. Entire shipley. That makes me laugh that being said that film is both one of the more hilarious films I've ever seen. And one of the most heartbreaking simultaneously. Maybe DNA aing, you know, the double helix seeing that together is genius. When Jack Lemmon is in that phone booth lit by that harsh light and his daughter needs an operation. And he's trying to get a sit the clothes some shit condo and. Florida. I almost have to avert, my gaze. I feel like I'm being voyeur and he's so effective. Shelly in that scene. I feel like I shouldn't be privy to that. Agreed human pain. Even though I know it scripted. It's just like somewhere. That's probably happened to that degree. And I always feel guilty. That's an amazing. See then conversely, there's some of the funniest stuff in the world. Ricky Pacino, sitting with John price and Giannis bar and talking to him about the most cosmic profane. Distasteful horrific human experiences and as long screed, while they're tossing a doers. And the end of this, long, Rambos wanna show you something near each is it news? Best puck and pulls a brochure up. It is the unlikeliest Rubicon ever crossed, but, oh, that makes me laugh. And the Mamat a genius, and more of a genius, now that I know is conservative leanings on common sense. Things too good for you starting to see some of these people creep up. You know what I mean? Some people are starting to just say, hey, listen getting too crazy. And not deniro. No, no, no. If I was Trump. And they played that for me. I'd say that hurts because I always thought he was the best Boris baton off. That's. Night elton. John lit me up at that charity dinner when I look ugly American, I assume pitcher, Dennis Miller couple, pro American jokes. So they say what did you think what out and said, I said, not like Bernie top. Philly Joe's five at me. Let's gets a topic. So this would be a reversal from his policy in two thousand sixteen policy. Let me. By leg, Judy Collins on the biggest huckster in the world. And we all local record starring blue as about looked. Both is she saying that. Now, I had are on the show. She was the blonde chick from shark tank on. You got some figurines of me fighting in the Peloponnesian war made out of an acrylic. Mitch McConnell says that he would. So in two thousand sixteen he didn't feel that they should vote for a supreme court nominee in, in an election year. And obviously, that was President Obama nominee. He's saying now next year in two thousand twenty he certainly would fill a supreme court vacancy was not historical precedent for them. Oh, yeah. No, I think I think you're absolutely right. But now he's saying you wouldn't have a problem doing it next year. That's the interesting part for me that the occupant of the White House, having an next to his name has changed his opinion on, well, I'd have to disagree with that, then I agreed with the last two they've pushed through because I there was not a historical precedent, and the Dem's would have did that in a second. Yeah. And but if there is no if there is a time frame, where you let it go. And this falls within the timeframe, I would I would agree and say, let the election decide and I wouldn't want to say that. But just in fairness. So I don't know what you're doing over there. But I tell you what he's going to be remembered by history as the last gestation before the desert as when the Democrats take over the Senate by just one vote all the shit's going to be pushed through simple majority. He's the last Republican has a chance unless Trump, you know. You know, has coattails and brings I'm still convinced that the leading person to the president and twenty twenty and it is an unspoken majority out there is trust me. I'm on the road. I have a lot of people side up to me, almost like clandestine, say, good for you, or, hey, I'm a Trump guy, too, and they whisper it literally social imagine that you think they're answering pollsters at home. Really? If they held this election tomorrow. I'll just the they're not holding it tomorrow. So wait till they are holding it tomorrow. But if you don't think Trump has a chance to be president again. And you don't think that they're watching all this stupid shit out there where they're talking about pulling babies out and putting them on tables. And then doing deal no deal. You know, the silhouette up in the booth on whether or not the kid are dis. You think that shit's not resonating? It is. I just only anybody's gonna cop to it right now because they realize all of a sudden, you express your opinion next thing, you know, you're catching a diesel on a tube sock over here melons, who needs it. But if McConnell does that I think it's unfair. I will say this. I do think the Democrats are immediately going to go to a simple majority in the Senate. And the fact that he's not going to do it is going to saddle him for a long time. And Neville Chamberlain light way. He's going to be the last guy passed on that option country is so destroyed right now, if you thinking get the. Sixty pizza topics if they have to stay late and they wanna get pizza. They couldn't agree on the topics. So think you're going to get the sixty on anything that's affective. You might as well be the first one because they're going to do it in a nanosecond after they take over. So that one. I think he's being a bit naive. On the other one if there's a precedent I would say pass on that because when she lose that high ground. And you know what? I'd even give them one extra day. I'd say, well, listen, it's been never we had one six months in two days out, and I'd say. Six months in one. Just push it that way a little. He your turtles another idiot, I met him once and they used to come on radio. Talking to these guys. And you think they're powerful and you know you. You know, their powerful and I won't say the other guys name he was a nice man, but he's a shit too. You're standing there tying, I think not believe these guys have cloud because, you know, their whole thing is their whole thing is working out there Vic, that's what they're geniuses at. How little can you move the needle and still maintain your power, but look like your edging in the direction of your deepest core tenant? That's all they do. That's their genius. They might as well be Carl will Linda. You know, over Niagara Falls or something. Is there genius just staying on the rope man? And I don't respect any of them, McCain. That's the most noble gesture I've ever seen a man, make when he's young kid or a twenty six year old man. And then for him to lead the last year of his life. Almost completely ass kissing to get a nice up opet in the times after the times when he was running put an above the full picture of his supposed mistress on the front page. It wasn't even when you kiss ass on people who don't have your best interests at heart. You really have turned into a kiss ass anyway. What else Morgan Stanley is saying that the red date Carson, right? She. Current Johnny dated a while. I always loved one on happy days row. Yeah. I think everybody was on happy days. It was on for like name Morgan Fairchild. All right. Oh my money with Morgan Fairchild Morgan Fairchild says that the economy is heading for a downturn. Because stocks are falling over concerns with this trade war with China. Listen, I hear the Chinese whipping out the long March trope, so they know we've got their attention. Why not do it now when we're flush. Do we have to eat shit from China for trade for the rest of our lives? Or if we can even improve just the little, and I don't even think Trump's plan for that, quite honestly, I think Trump's plan to get it even and whenever they talk about Trump being an idiot, and not a strong man and all that. Do you think any front runner over on the democratic side? Would it shows the flush economy? He had the double Don on these tariffs, because they fucked him at the table. Do you do? See any is that not in Deering to anybody in a way that he will walk away from the Goshi. What we have to just show up and shit from China. For the rest of our life. We have to let them steal our P. And by the way, I'll be the. Relaxing, sippy, this Sammy closer clo, sorry, just ties. Sir bellum going to get the L Dorada's for them. But I'm glad somebody put their foot and Trump hasn't made me any money. All this bullshit about Trump has done is fr-. Are you kidding me? Do you realize what that the state and local tax pastor getting rid of that does to people live in my state, for instance, California? Just do the math on you for a second. Let's say I was making twenty times, what I make a year and Moza millionaire, I made a million dollars last year. Twenty three times what I'm at. I know I know just to be one of the guys, I have to act like a making buck and Burger King. So let's say if you make a million dollars a year, and California state taxes, thirteen point three, I think top end hundred and thirty three thousand you got to pay to the state used to be able to write that off against your federal taxes, and save yourself, sixty six five. Now you just pay the whole thing. So anybody who makes if you make five million, you're on an extra three hundred and fifty thousand not knocked the federal. From thirty nine to thirty seven c makeup tastes there. But trust me, this whole thing about, he's doing this for his rich friends. Now, the people are making out on that, like, bandits are people of establish residency in either Texas, Washington, Florida, Tennessee, I think, Nevada, if you've read one of those things, yet you can hang onto some of your money. But this whole thing about, he's taking care of his rich cronies well on no is I can tell you, I paid more taxes last year than I had paid in the past willing to do some of that shit. If we can reset, some of this decrepit system, we have, and some of this bullshit laws that we have, and some of the simpering stance that we've had in the world for the last few years. And so be it this China things going to hurt, we to it's going to hurt a lot of people, and guess what? If they're gonna talk long road over there, at least our long road. I think I saw the Trump s for sixteen billion for funds a couple of weeks ago, you think the Chinese. These guys are going to these guys in the in the rice, paddies Hawaii, and Japan, China, where do they have those? They have those all those places. All right. You think they're going out and saying here, here's a check. We got sixteen billion take care of the guys in the you know, the in the fields there. Now, they know is it a perfect thing. No. But if, if they're telling them, they're going to have to walk the long road again. And that's their code for, you know, we got a buck up you eat it here for a while for the greater good. I think America's going to have to do that to some degree too, because they're screwing us. And this guy sick of being screwed. And I can't believe that everybody says that that's one of his deficiencies. I'm sorry. I love America and you know, and this whole thing about well, do you blindly now I don't blindly love it staff. The people I meet who are Americans. I wanna smack in the fucking head. Chris you ever walk through an airport? How many people you love in an airport, how many people you, if you watched them board, a plane for Christ's sake? If you watched that tween Cantina freakshow parade on the Oun front of you and try to put a fuck mini fridge into the overhead. Now I don't love everybody, but as a core concept countries groovy. Almost wrapped here. Yeah. I mean, we have we've done a lot of time, we could we could play one more voicemail before we go. If you like they'll play it. If it's laudatory because after smoking this, like I didn't believe me, this is Buchan, Johnny Vandermeer pitch. Back the back. No nose. Ties a baseball. He's one of the five guys. Listen. I just smoked this. I don't wanna go out the door with, Dan. Sometimes caney gives me. No. I think I think you'll enjoy this voicemail number twelve baske-. Hey Turkey, based in base me. I love this. This is from gene in Beverly Hills. Dennis it's gene Simmons, creator of moneybag soda made only with the most elite of ingredients. This is so royalty. So if you have expensive tastes, drink moneybag, I heard a recent interview with different Paul Stanley who was on impart to discuss our kiss end of the road tour. And he failed to mention an incredibly exciting piece of news involving the upcoming kiss show at Kern, plots in Munich, Germany, on may thirty first, let me preface this by saying, we were hoping as Fraley could join us at the show. But unfortunately he has a prior commitment on that date. Unbeknownst to us ace quite recently took a part time job at the on riverside park in Lincoln heights here in LA. He works on weekends as bench. It's a shame can join us. However, I am ecstatic to announce right now that sitting in on drums for this performance. The one, the only Peter. Excuse me. I had some Spilka on drums for this performance. The one, the only Peter Dingle. That's right now that game of thrones wrapped, unless there's a willow reboot in the near future figured his schedule as wide open. But it's much better than that. I know some of our fans have been let down in the past when certain guests performance failed to show up, but I've just taken steps to ensure that, that will never happen with Mr. dinky. Perhaps Dennis you're familiar with the three fifths compromise, which determined, how slaves become -ted in regard to a state's total population for legislative representation taxation purposes. The compromise was to count three out of every five slaves as a person hands. The three fifths compromise now, as you know, Dennis along with money bounds and cuddling passions in life is early constitutional law and I discovered an obscure, loophole that has never been amended nor revoked it is still legal. United States of America to own person. If that person is literally three fifths of person, simply put I now, legally own, Peter rest assured, I consider him a valued employee and whenever engage in any practice that would demean or otherwise compromise his dignity. This new arrangement only ensures that he may be performing with kiss on future dates during our end of the road tour and I should add that if anyone is unable to see Peter perform with us on this tour and would still like to see him when he isn't touring with us. It'll be on display at kiss mini golf at the Rio hotel and casino in Las Vegas, Nevada. I hope you're doing well Dennis, let's do lunch zoom. There's a wonderful, little Mexican restaurant Shanon. I frequent on nineteenth and spring will bring the wives after launch we can all swing by the park and sit on ace while we people watch. If you're up for it leave me an Email at kiss online dot com. He's a gene, and we allowed to say, yes, I think we should always give credit to gene Simmons when he calls it. But of course, our gene Simmons is grain, rob Lord church. Yeah. And if you want to hear more of rob Lawrence, you can hear he, and I chatted about avengers and game on episode three twenty eight of my personal podcast. The black cast, it can be found at black cast dot com. DT CAS, T dot com. Also apple podcasts. I tunes and everywhere, fine podcasts can be found absolute genius. One of the funniest men I've ever met, and we appreciate it. Then mischief moving out to the coast. He's on his way to moving to move to Washington state, though. So it's the wrong throwing the coast kidding. It's a little too far. Can do up there, right? Zingers for Jim McDermott. I think he can probably get some things onto a Starbucks Coffee Cup. Well, listen, Yuli rob large, and small coastal town in Washington for the next ten years will be the next Quint. Three hundred men went under the water. On twenty. No. Alright sheriff Brody by thanks for listening to the Dennis Miller option exclusively on Westwood One. Tune into new episodes, every Tuesday and Thursday on the Westwood One app. Westwood One dot com and on podcasts and remember to rate review and share until next time. That's the show, and we are out of here from the Westwood One podcast network.

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Photographing the Music Industry

This Week in Photo

1:02:53 hr | 10 months ago

Photographing the Music Industry

"Hey Folks. Have you ever been interested in concert? Photography or photographing musicians will stay tuned. Because in this next interview. I'm speaking with someone who's been doing it for quite a while April. Welcome to another episode of this week in photo. I'm your host Frederik van Johnson. Today I have the distinct pleasure of sitting down with Jay Blake's burn. He is a hesitate to use the word veteran photographer when I talked to many photographers but Jay is a veteran photographer. He knows his way around camera knows way around white. He probably has forgotten more about photography and getting the image than many of us know today and because of him being locked down I got him on the show and I get to pick his brain on how how he's built up such story career shooting music musicians in that kind of thing so jay. Welcome to the show man. It's good to have you a veteran photographer in only seventeen years old. I might have veteran already. Well you need to stop doing what you're doing because you're seven. You're trouble my white beard. So you're you're in San Francisco. You're a San Francisco based photographer and You know for the people that are watching this and that we'll look at the blog post. They'll see some of your images and I encouraged over to your website which will link to from the blog. Post end the description in the youtube video. But let's just start from beginning man you you not the beginning beginning but just give it set the stage for us you know so to speak on the how you got into this type of photography music shooting musicians in celebrities and that kind of thing so. I grew up in suburban New Jersey in the nineteen seventies highschool from nineteen seventy five to nineteen seventy nine and back. Then we have the Internet to tell us how to act or how to live over what to do not we were on our own and you know we pretty much live for sex drugs and rock and roll and the drugs were easy to get and ingest. The Rock and roll is everywhere the sex. We were just praying that we could get some harder to come. Come come a come up with the first two to play. That's why everybody says they become a musician for the girls right and and so you know trying to find and figure out my identity of who I was. I loved having a camera. I love taking pictures of my friends. My friends it was it was the early days of social media. You know take some photos development in the dark room and and give to your friends to hang on their bedroom walls or just to have and you know early early forms of sharing content and I built a darkroom and my mother's basement where I lived in high school And my senior year of High School. They built a dark room in my high school. Seventy nine the teacher for the photography class was the autoshop teacher. He's the guy teaching how to change your oil and fix up. You know change a carburetor or change your spark plugs or whatever it is they were doing in we call those people the grease monkeys whatever they were doing over there but he knew how to develop film so he'd be by default became the photography teacher and I was the very very first student to make a print in that darker. Nine hundred seventy nine and here. I am fifty years later. Forty years forty years later and still still doing it not not sniffing fixture in a darker but Still working as a professional photographer. So that's kind of you know. That was kind of the beginning at first borrowing my my dad's camera barring my stepbrother's camera Barred my dad's camera took it to grateful dead concert in one thousand nine hundred seventy eight. I Don photograph the grateful dead and then just you know just taking pictures and I think I was for my seventeenth birthday. My Dad bought me a you Sheikha. I think it was an f. x one think is what it was now up one. Maybe one or the other can't remember if you go back and look and and started taking pictures of my friends and and bring it to concerts and shooting music So that I could go take that film and and development in the basement and makes some eight by ten prints and hang them on my wall in my bedroom run create my own concert memorabilia and some of those photographs now forty years later are actually valuable and and have shown up in CD packages and box sets and and magazines pictures. That I took one is seventeen and eighteen years. Old Actually had some sort of commercial value historical value a value on the commercial side. And was it about the photography that got you hooked in clearly the hook was embedded deep. Right what was it? The the relationship with light was at the fascination with like mechanics in gear and all that stuff for the relationships that you build like you said you know the social networking back. Then you with people. What was it that kept the fuel going? The kept J. Wanting to take more pictures. I think that people liked the photographs. That is taking. I got positive feedback whether those photographs were really good or not as a as another story and so you know we all lack confidence and self esteem and you know typical teenage things. And so when you're taking a photograph and giving it to a friend or a girl or your buddy and they're hanging on the wall and telling you that it's a great photo you know it's sort of inspires you a little bit right and so you know. I had this thing that was sort of helping to identify who I was and You know where I fit into the script and I really also got turned on by you know in the old days dropping that blank piece of paper and that developer bath in that magic image. You know come up and and become a a a photograph it really was a magical magical experience and one that we cherished every time it happened and we believed in that magic loved that magic and want to keep doing that magic. I remember one time. I had some negatives in a negative page. I always kept all my eggs in the plastic neg pages in strips and I remember like getting some negatives and being with my buddy like in my bedroom and you know typical school night. Where were smoking pot drinking beer and playing poker and like trying to get him to look at the negatives in a loop on the light bulb in my room and look at how great this is the exposure and be like you know like what are you even talking about like this means nothing to me it you know it says nothing it means nothing it makes me feel nothing in for me like like? I'm practically like you know just bursting with joy over this properly exposed photograph of a musician that I loved and photograph just amazed that I actually was able to get the right exposure and the NBA and focused at the same time. See that that would. What do you think they're bigs the question you and I've talked about this a little bit before. But the if you fast forward from those days to today right and and we've got you know all manner of tools and you know some of them borderline magical being able see in the dark these cameras and software and post production and ways to share the images online instantaneously on and on and on. Do you think that joy that you had of looking at that negative through the loop against a bare lightbulb. That kind of I remember that right that little electricity job that you get like. Oh my God. I can't digging darkroom to print this and I want to see what I actually got. Were turned on. Yeah like on. That is an gone now. Do you think that's going Yes and no I feel I feel bad for photographers. That never got to experience their own film and making their own prints I feel bad and weird that a lot of photographers Don't know about photographers that were doing that. I mean serving ten was in the dark room making prince himself. You know certain point Richard Avedon was and if not right in there you know in the dark room making notes and giving direction to his printer So so there's all these photographers out there. That have these experiences but And we talked about this a little bit last week when I was on your when I was the special guest on your your Friday night cocktail. Shebang Frederick Than Johnson's worldwide cocktail Shebang on and Got To you know I talked about how when we download these photos into the computer and they pop up in light room and you immediately want to blow them up and see if they're sharpened the is and if it's a little bit dark but you love the shots. He got the latitude in it to bring it up and make it explode off screen right so yam still fucking turned on by by that magic. It's just a different kind of magic than it. Was you know back then in the day when we were when we were kids? Yeah do you do you? Do you think the the kids today. I want to sound like the old fogy but the kids today that are that are learning photography that are excited by it is it. Are they missing? Sort of you know an an atom or some DNA. Because they didn't go through they didn't walk over the Hawk Cut Kohl's of having to do it with chemistry light room and capture one now or the different kinds of hot cold hot coals. I don't want to discount people that never got to experience that but I think that if you're serious about photography I think that there still are rental dark rooms out there. I think that you should jump in a dark room and make a print or try and make a print. You understand what you know real dodging and burning is and where that came from which we do in the computer now in Light Room Photoshop. Or whatever it is. You're using you know you're still using those skills like the the very first guy that I had worked for me. Actually it was the second guy but he was the really the main guy that really got my digital studio up and running. He was a master black and white printer at a lab here in San Francisco and I stole him away and he was actually just finished. Hit just dropped out of art school but he knew the zone system you know he knew the work of Ansel Adams. He knew how to make beautiful beautiful print in a darkroom and he was able to translate those skills to the computer screen and take my photographs and make them pop off the page in a way that he was also able to do in the dark room and I think that that helped him the next guy that I had worked for me after Paul left so Paul is that guy. The printer was a guy named Ben and he started working for me when he was nineteen. I think nineteen years old and he had just graduated from a photography program on the East Coast and he studied retouching was his specialty and his skills were greater than Paul's but different Paul even taught him things even though Paul never learned proper retouching in school because he brought those skills from the dark room and so Ben then had Paul Mentor have a little bit and his stuff that he learned in his photography program on the East Coast and he became this incredible digital tack working magic in a digital darkroom. We'll call it. I love that all right. There's so much to talk about in in terms of the different directions. This conversation could take you know we can talk about gear. We could talk about lighting. We could talk about software post processing all that. I WanNa talk a little bit before we start looking at your work. I want to talk a little bit about the stuff that you use to make this work and your philosophy around light. I remember when I first got started in photography in nursing out in the military about photography was light that got me most excited and understanding photons and the physics and the speed of light and all that. Can you talk a little bit about your your relationship to to light and how you manage to sort of internalized shall i? I think it. I think you start to understand light as you mature as photographer and you see how it reacts to your to your photograph whether you're shooting on film I'm self taught as it's one hundred percent. I did take some photography classes in college. But all my portraiture work on my lighting on artificial lighting on my strobe lighting. I'm self taught and I think I'm very good at it. I think there's a lot of people that are mind blowing at it and I look at you know different. Instagram feeds of. You know people that are just masters of light. I'm not a technical person in general And I'm not a not a maths geek. Right so I don't not able to whittle it down to you know parabolic you know umbrellas and diffusers and ratios and stuff like that. I mean I understand my dynamite packs work and you know doubling the power and having the power to the same thing as doubling your shutter speed or aperture. Iso It's all in stops and quarter stops and half stops and things like that. And and I could look at a polaroid look at a digital file and they could say that highlight is too much. I don't like that shadow. How do I feel that shadow when I understand all of those things but it took me a long time to get to that in terms of just you know regular light? I think that as we roll into digital photography and you have the ability to instantaneously check exposure and stuff like that. It's a little bit easier than let's say you know doing a test. Polaroid and another test polaroid shooting at Sunset. And you're trying to get that beautiful backlit blown out shot. You know all at once and you're doing all these tests polaroid's on the sun dips below the horizon and you're done and you missed it right out whereas now I mean I can take a picture look at the back of my view finder and I can make an adjustment within seconds come very close and they make do it again in. I make one more adjustment and be ready to go right. And there's a lot of people that are you know can can fit fidget with that forever. Okay should change. She'll be changing my i. Should I be changing my aperture? Should I be changing my shutter speed? You know if I change my aperture. What do I have to do with my strobe output to adjust for that and now the Sun's going down now? How does the aperture change affect the sunset and do I need to compensate with the shutters income and I I can you know and I'm not a math person? I'm like you know I'm just I've never been. I can't do it it's my add. I was never able to concentrate doing any math classes in high school. I never took anything like that in college. It's just not in my DNA. And but I can solve those equations incredibly fast and and I think that. That's you know as a live concert photographer. I think that makes gives you an upper hand in terms of getting a great photograph is to be able to solve that problem. Incredibly quick To get the correct exposure and using the right shutter speed and the right. It's not just the correct exposure but it's the correct exposure for the situation that they've seen and it's like it's almost like you have superpowers because because you know you look at it. I. It's kind of true because you look at it from the standpoint of of Lake. We were talking about the supercomputers in our cameras today. Let us do all kinds of crazy stuff and they offload all that Matthew. We're talking about to the processor and they get it down to just you can put it on auto or intelligent auto or whatever press the button. It's going to evaluate the scene and give you something back right. It may not be exactly what you needed for that situation. But you're going to get a decent exposure back but someone like you. That understands what's happening with the light and can make those decisions you can help guide the computer to do the right thing and it's interesting. I mean I've gone to the Nikon booth at s right and had them show me some things that I just didn't know like I know. There are all sorts of buttons and filters in settings and scenes and pre pre-programme things in my camera. That might make my life easier or make me a better photographer but because I came from a camp known old school film camera where you had auto no autofocus manual focus in UN shutter speed and aperture. And you gotta figure it out you know so photography's a science-based based art right and so you know. Nowadays it's pretty easy to get the correct exposure because we have the you know the idiot screen on the back of every camera but when we shot fill you actually needed to know the technical skills to expose film properly because he did not have a properly exposed negative or slide you had nothing right the two sides of one coin though right because it could be on the one side you like. We were talking about hot coals right you. There was a lot of and expertise involved to just getting to the point where you can internalize what's happening on that film when the light it you know that what we call the learning. Lube Ray shot. I take picture. I go develop the film. I printed film. It's crap okay. Let's go do it again and change to change the settings today that was days right or at least ours back then today. It's second second rate. Does that mean does that mean. We have better photographers because they can. That loop is going like this instead of legs this but back then. I think it gives you the ability to become better photographer faster right because yeah I used to shoot portrait of my roommates when I first started playing with studio strobe lighting. It'd be like go to my roommate's it'd be like okay. You sit here on the set up one light here and I'm going to put an umbrella on it. Oh look at what that looks like now. Now I'M GONNA move that umbrella over to here now. I'm going to move it over to here now. I'M GONNA get the umbrella often. I'm going to bounce that light off the ceiling. Now I'm GonNa you know. And every time you're taking a photo you're with a slide with slide film and a light meter right and you're taking notes you're saying. I shot this at one. Twenty five f four but my light read but I put a gel on at a half and I- i- compensated by opening up a stop and here it is at the half stop open. And here's the quarter stop open. And here's the exact exposure based on the light meter. And then you're getting your slides back uncut and you're like comparing it to your notes and saying and you're right like so. I had to run to the lab and dropped my film off and it was ready in four hours can go back and get it or get it the next day and then go on the table and I'd be like okay. Frame number one shot a four but my meter read four and a half an F. Four looks perfect. And here's one that I shot it for an anthem. Wow that's a that's too dark. And now here's the GEL on it and it said F foreign at said F four and a half but I shouted a two point and it's perfect because it's absorbing all that yellow light and well now manning a Blue Gel and a green gel on the background and now it's doing this and wait it all these notes and you're trying to figure it out and when you go on a shoot you're not taking those notes with you in your. It's in your head like okay if I use this gel at this exposure and this situation if I don't open up by a half a stop I'm going to be under exposed and this is going to happen but if I put this really heavy Blue Gel on it and over over exposed by full stop. I'm going to get this beautiful milky white skin right. So there's all these things that you start learning on a creative level as well as technical level but again it's this loop that takes hours if not days whereas now you can do the same thing right so there's an online learn. Anything website called skill share and I just finished making a six or seven or eight part. Beginner Intermediate Photography Class Right. I'm I'm sheltering in place. My son is a video editor and he does work for skill share. And so he said. Hey let's do a class you now because it created a work for him the creative an editing job for him and so I agreed and so he's been filming me down to my studio and I really focused on. Doing the class project was creating an interesting portrait by playing with your depth of field in your shutter speed and that was the big takeaway and there's other stuff leading up to that and talking about identity and shutter speed and you know the triangle that we talked you mentioned before. Iso shutter speed aperture and how they all and it's funny. I never call it the trying but I guess that's what it really is and I've heard that expression before but And Show yes. It's interesting with a with you. Talk about that circle or you know it's the it's a circle inner triangle right because it's the circle that loop of learning right and until you can internalize it and then you're learning the exposure triangle. I wonder like back then. It was expensive exaggerate. Good real quick. I was going to say yes. Yeah I had to pay for that role fell and US film and I'm a starving artist right. I'm living in a house with six roommates in my rent. Is One hundred twenty five dollars a month that I could barely pay? And we're putting in ten dollars a week for communal food that I could barely come up with right so to spend twenty bucks on a roll of slide film and Development to to do this whereas you know and the amount of time as well whereas now so it's just with the skill share thing you know I'm telling people what to do. And you get instant results either by downloading your computer or even on the back of your camera right and so the the accelerated learning curve is like a rocket ship right. You know where you can learn what maybe took me weeks. And weeks and weeks and weeks and months and months and months and hundreds of dollars in testing film an emotions and lighting and do I like CODA grown better the next chrome one hundred and do I like extra chrome sixty four and do I like Fuji Better than the Kodak and do I like the TMZ thirty two hundred Kodak Black and white fast speed film shot at eight hundred sixteen hundred or thirty two hundred. What do I like best and right under saddle so again you know. It's this great expense and I was not wealthy. I had no money. You know I had nothing and I had nobody giving me any money and I was doing it on my own and I was like I saw that. The investment was worthwhile to learn these things. But you're geeking out to right because I I think you replace one addiction with another race so you go for him back in the day it was like you mentioned all these different film types and speeds and grainy this and black and white and slow pentatonic. Experts is high-speed for this. And then you flip over to the paper and the different filters as you could get to get different effects on the paper. We were geeking out about that stuff right and now I think people are geeking out about cameras and software. Yeah Yeah I wonder I wonder you know. I'm curious about the before. I WANNA look into the some of the work that you do. But I'm curious about the gear that you chose to shoot with. They would what are the bodies and lenses that you right so was a film shooter in Medium Format Hasselblad Guy and I had a fish. I lands which I think was a thirty for the House of lot. These are over ten years. Thirty forty fifty and eighty and a one twenty from my Hasselblad and those were my lenses there and and then I shot with a wide locks which is a panoramic camera. I shot with plastic toy cameras. The action sampler the whole I shot with a four by five cheap. Kelly met brand for my camera with some good lenses on it. I shot with Nikon and thirty five millimeter for a long time. It was all prime lenses when I'd go out and shoot a concert. I brought a a sixteen fish. I twenty four millimeter. Two point. Eight thirty five millimeter F. To for a long time I left a fifty millimeter at home. love my fifty millimeter now. Eighty F- TO A one thirty five to eight and one eighty two eight and I had a three hundred to eight. All those lenses were Nikon except for my three hundred millimeter. Two point eight was Tamra. Lens that I bought used from a guy in Santa Cruz. Decades ago told me all those in your camera bag. J Yes they were. Yeah I went out to a show. I was out there with sixteen. Twenty four thirty five eighty five one thirty five one eighty at all like fanny packs and camera bags and you now had two or three bodies around my neck with color film only black and white film and You know I know a lot of digital shooters that shoot rock and roll and they still like to have to camera bodies with a long lens in Shortland. So maybe a twenty. Four to seven on one Cameron. Seventy two hundred zero fourteen to twenty four and a twenty four to seventy. I just like one body now but I've got all my lenses in my harness packs Low Low in a low year. Low Fat you know all those bags and dully low pro. Low Pro at low pro. That's who I have all my year with and I carry a lot of weight that kills my back and and you know but nowadays sometimes I'll go out and I'll be like okay. I'm going to bring my. I'm going to bring my twenty four prime my fifty prime and I wanNA five prime. And that's it you know and I'll like that and I'll be like what about zoom lenses. Zoom lenses have come a long way back in the day used to be as soft and now I have pretty good. Now that I've sort of what happened was is I. I got tired of Zoom Lenses and I wanted to. I felt like I was shooting. Fish in a fishbowl. Was Too easy for me. You wanted some Dallas decided. I wanted to challenge. I'm like okay. I'm just going to go out with these prime lenses. And just shoot with Prime Lenses and see what I can come up with. It's different and so I might just go out with us. Three Lenses I mentioned twenty four fifty one zero five and then maybe I'll bring like my fourteen to twenty four just in case of it's like a small venue that I'm going to be up-close maybe I might want to bring that fourteen at twenty four but on my zoom side of things with Nikon fourteen twenty four to eight two thousand four seventy eight seventy two hundred eight the holy Trinity. The they all step right up. And they're all beautiful lenses but the Zoom Lens at two point. Eight gives you a different exposure than a than a fixed? You know a Prime Lens at two point eight it lets more light and it just does. I can't explain. It might be half stop. Maybe a quarter stop but they're they're sharper brighter. They're they are better lights. I mean better lenses and so but yeah but all those you know and what happened was is that I actually. I actually was doing a job for rolling Stone magazine back in the day. I remember what year this was. But somewhere in the early to mid two thousand two thousand or six or four three two thousand and I'm GonNa Guess Two thousand and five or six U2 Bano and the edge from the ban Youtube Ireland were in Cupertino debut. Know if you remember this there was a U2 ipod that you could buy it was working at apple then. And I have that ipod with every one of their records on it. So Steve Jobs brought Bono and the edge out and on a stage was a press junket and I was shooting at for Rolling Stone magazine and and I had a digital camera because they needed it fast and I hate those files because they look like crap you know. They're probably like two megabytes to Beg Pixel Camera Pictures maybe three. And but I didn't have not invested in a good zoom lens yet. I was still prime and so shooting by one. Eighty two point eight manual focus. My eyes were not as good as they were. When I was a young whippersnapper started wearing glasses when I turned forty so I'm fifty eight so eighteen years ago and and I got those pictures back and half of were out of focus that and it was at that point where I said it is time for me to invest autofocus Jim Lange and I bought my first seventy two hundred. Wow I think we've all been there when you you're usually happens on mission critical jobs. I waste Bano and you to the in ipod with apple right. Yeah absolutely and I did get enough. I fulfilled my assignment and they got the shot that they ran in the magazine and whatnot. But I was just like I kept. My eyes. Aren't good him out. You know I can't focus and I go back and I look at photographs that I took of bans on stage that are super high energy and super high high excitement and lots of movement going on and I'm shooting with manual focus. Nikon lenses nine spot on sleep. Okay we got to talk about that. 'cause it's like. I've tried to shoot live with limited success. Let's say not even in a professional manner but I've tried to shoot some concert photography. Just you know little local bands or whatever that is hard like Kudos to photographers. They could do that. Because it's like I don't know if it's the most challenging but it's got to be up there with one of the most challenging of photography try to attempt to shoot because it's you know constantly changing light crowd of crazy excited people bouncing around frenetic performers onstage high motion in high motion in low light. You know how are you able to get such shots out of that kind of situation? A we have been trained by special forces from the fifth dimension lightning in a bottle. There you go. That's the dark matter. You guys are shooting with dark matter cameras or some practice practice. You know you you. It's you gotTa get you. Just gotTa do it. You GotTa do it yes. Lighting conditions are tough. I mean it's hard to be in focused at F two or two point four two point eight or two point five. Technically right at your. It's it's tough to be focused when you're wide open. It's tough to be focused in chartres when your hand holding sixty second at two point eight at ISO thirty two hundred with a long lens you know and you know this is where you want it to be in focus you want. There is to be in focus right state. You know you're in a pit. Somebody's on stage. And you're looking up at them and you're shooting wide open and you're focusing on. There is everything below them going out of FOCUS THEIR GUITAR AND THEIR HANDS. And everything you know you wanna try and shoot straight on seeking get that plane with her face and like Atari maybe both focus and watch sharp is sharp guitar strings but I go back and look at some stuff that I shot on film. That was happening in real time and incredibly fast and it's in focus and I'm just like I don't know how I pull that off but I was like you know because that's the other thing you were shooting film these days you can kind of look at the back and say well yeah. Geez that sucks. Let me adjust your yeah. You're you're you're you. You know you develop an eye for exposure and you develop an eye for Focus and you. You know you act like a cowboy in a in a shootout okay corral. You're reacting as fast as possible to hit on the head. Yeah that's going to be some adrenaline going on there. When you're when you're out there and it's just like yeah I can't imagine you especially if you're shooting like a ban that you love and you're you're nailing the shots and you're just like that's got to be the best feeling in the world absolutely I mean think about it like think about people that chase tornadoes right and they get a shot of their first tornado think about the the adrenaline rush. That's going on with them and and You know everything like that where you are shooting what you love your shooting sports and all of a sudden you know you've gone from just shooting college games to getting on the field for a playoff game because you've got a press credential and you're in the dugout and you're next to the sports illustrator photographer and the newspaper photographer. And you're getting that shot of the home. Run or the the out at home plate or whatever it might be and it's just like that magic moment that you just captured and and you're like holy moly. I did this and I can continue to do this and I'm going to. I did it this time and it was this good and the next time I do. It's going to be even better and it's going to get better. It's going to get better every time I do it. And and it's going to get better because I'm going to force myself to learn how to make it better to practice to get better right and I think that also is I think. That's a lot of photographers. Downfall is that. They don't know how to make photography better. They are not. They don't have the ability. I look back on when I I was shooting and I was trying to make a living and shooting professional jobs. I you know I look at the film and I got back and I was very happy with it and then years later as my I developed and I got better. I look at that film. I'll be like Oh my God. What was I thinking this stuff all but you know whoever was looking at it decided that it was good and it worked for them in it but it inspired me because I was getting positive feedback and I go back to earlier work and I say what was I thinking. Why did I do that? Why did I over expose it like that? Why did I think I need a contrast in negative and and you know it's it's all of those things that are going through your head in a split second That gives you that that adrenaline dopamine rush which I guess is exactly why social media works because it gives these people this this dopamine rush when somebody likes their photo. And it's that that reinforcement that you know what you're doing is good and it's valid and and but even if it's not right because even the social media drip is like a. It's like a morphine drip right make. Maybe it's an methamphetamine draft stops more than stops there like. Oh my God I got to do something to get more that right and we talked about this last week. When we're on the thing is that unfortunately due to social media we now live in a world of mediocrity and so if you're looking at is mediocre photos than that's the bar that you set for yourself and so when I was first starting. I was opening up magazines rolling stone or looking at record covers going into record stores and looking at albums and I was inspired by what I saw and I'd be like this is what I WANNA do. How do I do it? Okay well this guy probably has a light in looking at the soda properly. That lights probably over here and it looks like there's a second light that's maybe hitting this over here maybe even a third one that's hitting on the top of the head and okay so I don't really I don't want my pictures to look like a yearbook photos. I'm going to get rid of that light but I like those two lights and I know I'm never going to be able to copy this exactly but if I go get my lights in my diffusion and my look and feel I create my own look in my own style and speaking of your own looking your own style. I want to look at some of your work. Let's with your permission to bring up your website. It's mediocre highly doubt bad. So let's bring your website over here there. It is so we're at Bloomberg DOT COM RIGHT. So so you can go to. Blake's DOT COM and also I have another website called rock out. Books DOT COM AND AT ROCK OUT BOOKS DOT COM. That's where you can all. I books that I published. I've done fifteen coffee table. Books that my music graffiti and those a bunch of those are on my rock outlook site and also my sale print galleries my website. Blake's for DOT com. That we're at right now is more showcasing it to people just need a place to go. Hey what's your website. That kind of thing. So I'll I'll tell you who these people are real quick. So we have Jerry Garcia. This Brian Wilson from the beach boys. The next shot is good at four there. That's Johnny and June cash. That's James Brown. Stop at this second vocalist. Portrait's are available light with t Max. Thirty two hundred probably shot at sixteen hundred pretty grainy. The one of James Brown was probably backstage in an address. You Room and just. I probably shocked at thirty two a second intentionally. Because I wanted to try and get a little bit of motion blur if I remember correctly I have like an entire roll of film from this little portrait. Had Job thing and that's beyond the motor. Drive Okay Thirty Second. Fifteenth of a second sixty second you know and just try to capture like a little tiny bit emotion there whereas June Johnny. I'm just like okay. I don't want this to be a really just a snapshot Flash on camera with some extra grown film unlike else this was some grainy black and white film and make it a little bit more. You know report. Taj Right The next shot here looks like it's the blue one is Tom Waits. And that shot with four by five camera that shot with tungsten filming a daylight setting which goes naturally blue four by five cameras. He could see his legs and had our little out of focus. Probably shifting the land the little bit to kind of give it that that look and just one of those crazy shoot. Somebody like Tom. Waits in captured? This blue was not imposed right. Yes exactly so. This is intentional. This is shooting indoor balanced film. Tungsten film an outdoor open shade so indoor fill a lot of blue in it to compensate for overhead incandescent lighting to give you a natural skin tone right and so It's thousand thirty two hundred degrees Kelvin. And I shot this outdoors in open shade and it gives you this blue tent and said this is not an photoshop. This is right out of the camera. Great this is great this Carlos Santana bb king with Lucille and Santana's available light and BB. King is a strobe lights. And it's an a backstage dressing room at this vintage old theater and that's old movie palace projector behind him an old phone booth and I think I had just two lights set up here and this is like Probably have five to ten minute photo. Shoot at most. Use Them for that hot minute. Sit Down got you get and then get out that some pressure to just this kind of stuff being when they're on stage that's a whole different world right. Yeah do you want to get them to react smile? I probably said something funny to to get to react now. Yeah that is crazy. That's another four by five portrait of Omni DEFRANCO's the blue one gets the I did. The tilt shift so if you look at it closely her face in her eyes during focus and then it slowly. Just let bleeds out of focus there right so so I was even though I was tilt shift on my front Lens Element. I was still focusing right on her eyes and the depth of field is like barely a quarter of an edge. That next black each other's Tracy Chapman and a recording studio is doing pictures for a record. She is worse. How did I know that I knew? Obviously you can't tell who it is. But for some reason my brain's tracy chat and just you know just thought that that was a beautiful photograph and I had black and white fast speed film in my camera and two hundred and boom next shot. Is John Lee Hooker and that shot with four by five camera with strobes on an old polaroid Phil type fifty five. They don't anymore and that that actually gives you a negative so these next two shots John Lee Hooker and radiohead look at the edges of the photograph. Right that's like that top edge right there with that little list circles. That was the it was actually right below the circles. They're those little dots. The film was perforated. You're actually meant to just rip off the film but I used to just leave it on there because I liked the way it looked and the top row has circles there and but these photographs are shot with that black white film and film gave you a negative also sends positive and a negative type. Fifty doesn't exist anymore. This is Emmylou Harris Nashville legend. The next shot is a woman named Suzy Suv from Suzanne. The ban cheese Famous Brit pop singer bandleader and this is kind of done a mosh to Edward Steichen and his photograph of the woman behind the lace veil. This beautiful look at that portrait. This is definitely not a yearbook portrait. Iggy and just. He knew that he was smoking. It would really bring something out. Because that's kind of him you. I was like yeah. Go ahead and smoke in the studio. Even though I wouldn't you don't love it. I just felt like it was again and I I used to like nowadays. I light my portraits. A little bit more flat than I used to do. Maybe I'm growing up or something But this particular shot here is probably one Softbank's on him and just one light on the background just to get a little bit of separation between him in the background and intentionally that light a little wide that key light on him just said that he would really go into shadow but like you can just sorta see a little bit of his eye on that and his right eye and on on the left side of the photo and that little dot which is the catch light in his eye before we move on. I'm curious to how you getting. These people is it word of mouth air used. Is it because you move in certain circles and Maggie? No and they know who you are. It's a magazine assign almost all of those magazine assignments. I think the Brian Wilson from the beach boys one was not it was a fundraiser event. And he was doing it with another musician who I did a lot of work with and so I just brought one little light with me a little portable battery powered light on a stand. So when I didn't have to shoot flash on camera and just ask Brian Wilson if you just posed for me for a minute and probably shot ten frames and black and white collar have you. Have you seen the work flow change at all or the number of assignments that come in all over the yeah? Yeah I mean you know. And it's all change again with corona lot of print. Magazines are going to go on a business. I don't think they can survive this. We'll see how it goes but Yeah I mean. Magazines dropped like flies all the time and they become just online or whatever. But you know I think the glory days of magazines autography is pretty much over. This is not older over. Let's take a look at some more of these images because these are these are crazy. You get lost in your portfolio chains and Diction Joni Mitchell and the blue one five camera. The next one is the Chili peppers. And that shot with just a few lights on them but all the to on them. One of the background That's when they were little babies back in nineteen eighty nine grownup Actually just this is thirty thirty one years ago top heady. That's intentionally shot with some fast grainy film and a slow shutter speed and this was just an an event that we were all just hanging out out. I just wanted to get like a boring snapshot Flash on camera which I could have done or you know Or even I wanted this vibe I wanted you know I wanted to try and capture just a little bit of movement and Blur and to me at works and this photo you know. And that's and he's iconic. He has an iconic face. You don't need to show every bit of detail in him right. Yeah Wow guys black crows. Yeah and then Willie Nelson after that and then the bus is Neil young so when you get the call from from a magazine or you know someone who's hiring you for assignment describe what they call goes like. Hey by the way. Bb King's zones so or over there and get a shot. We need a shot nowadays. We don't get phone calls. It's all in okay. Yes but and then occasionally there are so. Hey are you available on you know? This particular date. May twenty-first zones doing shot San Francisco. And we've got approval to photo shoot for feature or cover. Whatever it might be available. We think in these new between four and six. Pm YOU'RE GONNA get twenty minutes with this person Cheryl available. Let's look and then they'll go back and book it with the publicist or whoever the manager and then I might have one phone call with the photo editor are jerker like are you looking for looking for any particular. G need more than one shot. Is it going to be a big opener in the article and then a secondary pickup shot? Or you're going just go get a live. Shot for the pick of the secondary pick-up shot And so you know you're just trying to get as much information as you can so that you can go and do the job and you know and and and you know magazines are paying less and less money. I mean a lot of magazines might say okay. I've got a flat six hundred dollars that I can pay you to shoot this. But that's includes your assistant and your film processing. You might spend two hundred dollars processing and your assistance to. Why are you going to spend two hundred dollars to do you know? Make dollars a new job. Take you all day right. And so it's it's just to you check your you know. Usually availability on a certain date is where the conversation starts and then depending on who the director is and exactly what they're doing it just depends on if they want to give you total creative freedom. Ask You if you have an idea that you can share with them or if you just want to wing it and be like okay. I'M GONNA go get some you know toy glasses and I'm gonNA put toy glasses that say happy birthday. I love strippers on. Everybody's Ed's and see what happened. You know it's it depends. I mean Anti Liebowitz was the one who came up with a brilliant idea of concept photographs that were told a story through wardrobe and setting and as well as the subject matter. I love that. Want to switch gears and dive into the so. We were looking at shots that we're all done in camera right so this was all film for the most part right. Let's I want to switch gears and look at your the new side right so an on your on your website. You've got music. Nuhere switch over there and go through a couple of shots. This this is your digital era. Everything here yes. This is all digital of course and this is Jackie Green and the shot on the right is just on a white seen list. Thirty five millimeter Nikon and gets his legs are going out of focus in the bottom. I some tilt shift architectural lenses that I like to do portrait's with a mess around with and kind of mess with the with the point of Focus that you can kind of see how those are going to focus and that's an intentional. Creative decision The shot outside is just Jackie. With some strobe. Lights plugged into generator. You know this This next shot inside a little trailer. So this is backstage stage at festival called. Hardly strictly bluegrass. That's Elvis Costello. I should have closed the curtains because I hate that. Those ten center back there but it was this little old fashioned from the nineteen sixties. Little like Camping trailer and it was like a prompt backstage. A set decoration backstage and L. This to come inside and sit for me and he came in for a minute and sat down and I think I shot this with flash on camera but I'm bouncing it off of the wood ceiling and it was going very warm and we digital. We were able to pull that warmth out of it. Yeah it's getting these people like the these. We've I'm sure very busy musicians to get them to come. Sit even for like ten minutes. This is it. Is it pulling teeth or is it like yeah I WANNA get. I WANNA get my image made because You know that's how I make my living right like this particular image of Elvis Costello like this is probably going to say three to four minute photo shoot Whereas go to the next one. The next the next shot is a band called smash mouth that a couple of really big hits back in the nineties walking on the Sun. And I'm a believer and all star and I shot a bunch of there really early records and this was a publicity shoot. I did with the with the band this at this point this has got to be almost seven or eight years old But this is outdoors with multiple lights multiple strobe lights and since they hired me like I probably spend five hours with them. We probably did five different locations and Wardrobe changes and indoor and outdoors in vertical and horizontal. Says a real photo. Shoot as a real. Yeah let's go through a couple more and then I'll let you go with his Dave Matthews. This is the cover of Acoustic Guitar magazine. This winter in here. Yeah and the next one is less. Klay poll and that was for. I think actually less hired me for that. Make new publicity photos for him as that. Shoot right there as you probably know all these guys right. I mean not the most part do I mean this is Paul. Simon is actually shot for Apple. Computer their original Apple Music series as they did and shot digitally without with a phase. One back on the back of my Hasselblad. This is ridiculous. Look at these who these guys. This is a bad called blind pilot. And they're all rock band from the Pacific northwest and this was down in Texas and their manager asked me if I would do a quick shot of them. I had no meeting with me or anything like that and so I found a location where I can put them on this poor to there's light coming in from the side of see you know just looking the guy on the right. I look at all of them. You could see where lights coming from right now out there and I believe I remember correctly I believe that in this is a long time ago I might even popped a little bit of a flash off on this just to give tiny little bit of Phil you and But he can barely even tell and you know. It's not often that I do orchards like that. Where I'm mixing available light with FLASH ON CAMERA I'll do that in event type situations but not in my portrait work. My portrait I would if I was doing a full shoot with these guys. I would have had umbrellas and Power. Packs are soft boxes or beauty dishes and my assistant than you know would have. It would have increased the size of the crew and the production and everything having all that equipment. But I didn't have it with me anyway. I was down South by South West and Austin. Just shooting the event for a for a client and they asked me photographs. Show so of all these shots the amount more right because this is like we said amount. Do you have a favorite A? You know a favorite child you like nailed it gave. Her child is so my my websites got a handful of images in it. I was actually just talking with my daughter today about updating my website. It's time I just have a few logistical things to figure out about it. But if you really WanNa see what. I'm working on all the time and a combination of old and new good to my instagram pages. So I have one that's J. Blake's Berg Aka ESP ARE G J Blake's Burger. The other one is called retro. Blake's Berg and Retro Blake's Burke is a brand new instagram site that my daughter is curator for me and so she has it all set up and she's choosing the photos and writing the captions and whatnot. And that's Retro Blake's and we just started out a few weeks ago so it's only got I don't know a thousand followers and fifty posts or something like that and my regular. Instagram is Jabe Lakes Berg and got you know sixty thousand people following along and a lot of people because that's where you want to go and then on facebook. I'm Jay Apple expert. Berg Dot sorry at James Blake's bird photography not J. Blake's on facebook. Yeah so here's a bunch of stuff that I post regularly on instagram. You know that they are in the middle. That was his birthday. I posted for him. He's a friend of mine that sunset shop there that that on the left hand side with a girl so she's one of the biggest pop stars. In Italy she's called the Madonna of Italy and I shot an album for her number of years ago. That Shot Square with the hassle. Blonde on Chelm. Yeah so that's that's instagram. So let's get this. Come join the party. And then retro. Blake's burn this on. My daughter is doing it so like here. We go all the way on the top row. On the right Tottenham now top rail right so that's a series a polaroid's these are all shot with four by five Camera Ryan against surveys is not letting you have to log. It's not letting you actually get into it. But as a series of ten polaroid's Jot with four by Cameron these role employees. A clothing brand called hot topic clothing company retail China. I saw their annual annual report three four years in a row and we always use their employees as our models because they dressed like the product like their customers and said this is a series of ten polaroid's that did and then I handed this for by Polaroid's ask final art. So it's not like I did. Test Polaroid the final art polaroid and then handed those into my client just scan and decided they wanted to use them so okay awesome. Congratulations on all this stuff. So what's what's next. What's next as we gotTA GET THROUGH CORONA? Ya as I mentioned. I published self-published. My own books done fifteen coffee books to rock OUT BOOKS DOT COM. Check those out so I'm looking at long long long term projects right now looking at Several book ideas going through my archives and pulling stuff out for some of these ideas. I'm working on a book of another photographers' Work Right now. That's another thing my company does is that we catching photographs. We package packaging books. So we package books for other people that want to self publish their books so we can do everything from design to printing to trucking in customs and overseas shipping. And things like that getting into your warehouse. So we'd like to help. My company helps other photographers independently. Self published coffee table books so I sell published on my own books as well and so. We're a couple of books that are just at the very early stages On selling fine art prints of my work. So that's a little bit busy and books and shipping that stuff. You're busy down you got to do you. Got One point six million digital files on having by computer. I haven't looked at in five or ten years and just and just looking at it in amazement and being like I can't believe I shot all the stuff you know work with this artist. Snoop DOGG OR DR. Dre or the grateful dead or Tom. Waits Neil young or Carlos Santana and so I feel very fortunate that I've been able to work with all of these people over and over and over again and and Create a body of work that resonates with me through the beauty of social media and instagram and facebook. I have learned that my work resonates with the people that are looking at my work and people like it and they enjoy it. And it's a good distraction and I love sharing my work. I remember I remember back in the day when we all shot film. I was at a concert in San Francisco. And you know this at the time probably thirty years old and maybe thirty five and this kid next go shooting for and I said Oh request magazine. That was a magazine based in Minneapolis. That came out through San goody music stores and he's like And I was like. Oh yeah the new issue has a story on disband. And he's like Oh my God I just got that issue and I have those photographs torn out of the magazine hanging on my bedroom wall and that was social media back then you know and and so like I know. Photographers took pictures through their negative in their slides in boxes and put them in the closet and I was taking pictures of the people could enjoy them. And that's why still posted so much stuff on Seychas on social media because I want my friends and fans if that's I call them followers We're not a cult to enjoy what I'm doing and look at what I'm doing and get something from it and let that left photograph. Take them back to another and space. That was so important to them like in a specific concert or a an event they were they were at or you know jazz faster. Whatever it might be that. They can reconnect with that moment through that photographs. I love that man. Congratulations on all this stuff. You have a lot to do. You've got the energy to do it. You got the talent to end the horsepower to make it happen. So can congratulations on everything. You've done what you're doing what you're GonNa do so and keep doing what you're doing. I'm excited thank you. Yeah man well thank you for coming on. Thank you for coming on. I said we'll link to all your your instagram's rock out books DOT COM Blake's Berg Dot com all that stuff linked to it in the blog. Post in the youtube description for this episode out and and keep doing man. I'm going to have a feeling we're going to talk again because there's a meal we didn't get into archiving. Just switched skimmed over there so much more always leave them wanting more always leaving one more shot close to a million images on film and you know in another got a million six million seven digital files and and We've scanned about eighty thousand pieces of film. And so you know. I've I've got a stack right here on my on my desk of proof sheets and this stack appreciate terra. Show to the stack of proof sheets. This is only about a quarter to a third of. What's my desk? This is just film that I shot that I want to go back through and see if there's anything on there that I want to scan and get into the computer and and You know get get digital tournant digital man so we can share on social media because it trapped right now right. They're trapped on a negative. You gotta you gotTa set them free. Yeah so you know no shortage of projects no shortage of things to do and hopefully the world will get better soon. It will heal itself Hopefully we will. We will get people to run our country and our countries that care about our environment and care about our people and we'll come back bigger better stronger than we were. And our economy will thrive and we'll get back to work and be able to make amazing photographs once again. I have no doubt that all that is going to happen. So Jay Blake's Berg. Thank you so much for coming. On in the yeah. We'll see impart to of this though. We got to do it again anytime I'm ready. You take thank you cheers.

Nikon Jay Blake High School Paul Mentor apple San Francisco Hasselblad Frederik van Johnson Brian Wilson Instagram youtube New Jersey editor Elvis Costello shooting sports