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Gender Based Harassment Doesn't Have to be Sexual
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So in our continued coverage of the metoo movement and all of the wrinkles there in you wanted to tell you that the head of CBS les Moonves says recently stepped down from CBS moon. Bez is a huge media big year. He oversaw the CBS network which included show is like the big bang theory sixty minutes and NCIS the premium cable channel Showtime in the publishing house, Simon and Schuster. He was also a pretty big male vocal proponent of me too. And in December, he helps found the commission on eliminating sexual harassment at advancing quality in the workplace, which is chaired by any hill. But according to a new piece by who else? Ronan Farrow six women would professional dealings with less moon best between the nineteen eighties and the late odds that he sexually harassed them or described forcible touching or kissing during business meetings in what they said appeared to be a practiced routine. To said that Moonves physically intimidated them or threatened to deal their careers. All said that he became cold or hostile after they rejected his advances and that they believed their careered suffered as a result. So add another name to that creep list. It's getting Coit long. We could turn this show into just like creeps mom ever. Yes. Crepes mom never told. Which would not be very fun to listen to, but important on the informative, having having a. Updating creep list and updating creep list. Just hours after Ronin Faeroes pieces, published moon Baz was ousted from his role at CBS. He will stay on as an adviser and CBS will pay him one hundred twenty million. If it's ongoing investigation fails to find any evidence of sexual misconduct, which just doesn't seem quite right. Yes. So he's sort of a creep in residence right now? Exactly. It's got to have an onsite creep available at all times. Yeah, just in case well, any the Daily Mail actually points out that according to an SEC filing CBS my actually be the one putting the Bill quote within thirty days following the termination date. The company will make contributions in the aggregate amount of twenty million to one or more charitable organizations that support the metoo movement and equality for women in the workplace five and knows. So it does actually seem like they're suggesting it will be a joint donation from moon vs. CBS, but CBS might actually be the one that's picking up the Bill according to this filing. It's really upsetting and kind of a predatory. An interesting predatory. I don't know, like a way to hide what you're doing when if less Nunez was supposedly this big advocate for me too. It's almost a way of hiding behind that when you're you're creep, really? Oh, foreshore. It does not surprise me at all that he was this vocal proponent of me too. And was propping up commissions to investigate sexual harassment in the workplace while actively sexually harassing women in the workplace? That's not surprising to me at all. Just look at the former attorney general of New York who was a very vocal metoo proponent while also being terrible to women. You know, it doesn't surprise me at all that he would be someone who is very vocally supportive of this movement while also being a creep himself. That doesn't surprise me, and it is a tactic that I think abusers would use. Sort of throw folks off the trail and make them seem like they are one of the good guys when they're not all on a lesser on a lesser scale. It kind of reminds me of win, say you're at a bar and a guy approach issue, and somehow it comes up and he says, oh, I'm very, very feminist, but it's almost more of a way to she'll like this like not really feminist. You just want a girl to come home with you? Yeah, I have this theory that men that use feminism to hit on women. What they actually mean is, oh, I like women with sort hair or like, oh, you know, I don't think they mean what they think it'd be sure that's a good theory. There is one thing that we wanted to talk about that is sort of different about less Boone vez's case and his behavior, and it's that gender based harassment is not always sexual. That's exactly right. So these women alleged sexual harassment, groping kissing in meetings that sort of thing. But when this story came out, another wrinkle of it is the fact that he had been derailing. The careers of women that sounds like he just didn't like they were melty feminist. They didn't kiss s and that he was such a powerful figure that he systematically derailed the careers of these women that might have otherwise gone onto flourish. And that this was a big part of how he treated women during his tenure at, and I feel like this is something that can really get lost in the metoo mix that harassment does. It have to be sexual. It doesn't have to be groping or kissing and things like that. Sometimes it's powerful 'gate-keeping men sabotaging. Derailing careers based on gender, and that's exactly what happened with two women chain and Jackson and Linda bloodwork Thomasson. So first of all, if you haven't read designing women, show runner, Linda blood worth Thomasson. Her piece in the Hollywood reporter called not all harassment is sexual. You need to. It should be like a requirement for this episode. Oh my God, yes. I pause the episode. Go read it. It's one of those pieces where my you know that that. That sound of that. That's an reggae music. Yeah, I was my feminist air horns were blaring after every paragraph, every paragraph I read on the back of my mind. I was hearing. Is it was so good. It's so good that it was a struggle not to include the entire essay in this podcast. Yeah. The episode could spend us dramatically reading this podcast with air horns, sound effects. And I would've been happy with the podcast that we've, let's maybe that could be a bonus episode because. Sounds like aggregate on beat. I, it'll be it'll be it'll be the hottest song and the club for like eight people who go to hear feminist essays read over music. Two of us included. We'll be on, say, did it kind of omega a remix of of a beyond Sesana instead of we should all be feminists. This essay I am here for it. Just listen to this opening line. This is not going to be the article. You might be expecting about Lezama invest. It's not going to be wise. We're inspiring. It's going to be petty and punishing in spite of my proper southern. Mother's admonition to always be gracious. I am all out of grace when it comes to Mr. moon vs. In fact, like a lot of women in Hollywood. I am happy to dance on his professional grade and not just any dance. This'll be the Macarena the rumba shot CIA for moonwalk. You get the idea. I do get the idea. It's so good also, can I say because she is the former show runner of designing women. I don't know if you'll ever watch designing women. This reads like a Julia sugar Baker monologue. So if you watch that show, you know the women were prone to, you know, feisty feminist rants I in my mind, Julia sugar. Baker is reading this and it ends with and you will never altered drapes in Atlanta. Again, if you watch designing women, you get that reference, you don't. You're confused. But trust me, it's great and all the while there's there's the hip hop. This is the whole thing we're creating find Dixie Carter the woman who played Julia sugar Baker delta Burke beyond, say, get them together, get up producer on it and and make this track. I'm telling you it will be a banger. I think they're going to be. We're not gonna have any trouble getting them on board at all. At all. If you're wondering if you're not sure what's going on here, what Linda blood were Thomasson is talking about. She's writing about how Moonves systematically boxed her and other women lead shows out of CBS. She writes, I was never sexually harassed or attacked by lesbian. Bez by encounters were much more subtle in 'gendering a different kind of destruction in one thousand nine hundred. I was given the largest writing and producing contract in the history of CBS. It was for fifty million involving by new series with hefty penalties for each pilot not picked up. So after Moonves became president of CBS entertainment in nineteen ninety-five. The network didn't pick up any of her pilots. She writes, often, if he would catch me in the parking lot, he would make sure to tell me that my scrip was one of the best he had ever read, but that he decided in the end not to do it. It always seemed like he enjoyed telling me this. That's such a sleazy move to go up to her and say, oh, you almost had. Honey, but I decided to go in another direction. I sort of see how that was meant to keep her hanging on and hoping and fighting and wondering is I mean, that's almost like it's almost, I guess, lighting, like probably made her wonder, is it mean what am I doing? But if that was his tactic, that's like a way to keep her always always holding out hope that this time is going to be a. Yeah, something on a much smaller scale. But similar happened to me once where I I had gotten a pretty decent for me role in a pretty big movie and the night I got there to shoot it. They had me like waiting and watching somebody rehearse it over and over again. And it was really cold night and it was laid an hours pass. And I'm kind of wondering what's happening. And eventually the assistant director came up to me and he said, you know, I've been thinking about it and I really think we should give this to the male stunt guy. And then he said something like. Isn't it? Isn't it difficult to work in an industry? That's all about your looks and then they made me watch them fill Mets. It was awful. What an. I know like that's what I'm saying. I think that even some, that's that sounds like it was very clearly gender base and it was about making you internalize that you were not good enough in some way. And I guess that's my point is that you know, this is this is gender based harassment. It may not be sexual, but in his so toxic and pervasive, and it can really get in your head and this we should be interested in fostering workplaces where employees es and people who are on projects, feel safe and secure, and that they don't feel like at any minute there's going to be, you know. Mind for them to walk on that. We should be promoting workplaces that feel faith and people feel supported. And when you when you're in a workplace, where it sounds like this movie set was where you're constantly being reminded that there someone else who could do your job and making you watch this happen. That's that does not set up a workplace where you feel safe and it's even harder when you're woman because you're already merging. So you're already feel that you have a target on your back and then having to endure this just it's just not good. I mean it's not sexual harassment, but it's so so toxic, and it can really just mess you up. I mean that if I had gone through what you just described, I would have been mortified I would have been. It would have knocked my confidence for so long and again, who knows what the impact that has on your career long-term. Right. And I, I just remember being in such shock and I was so cold and I had to. Like walk back to the room with all the other actors and crew. And they asked me what happened, why aren't you doing it? And I couldn't. I almost couldn't find the words is went home and cried. It was such a miserable because that was a big deal for me. That role was a big deal. And then the night of for the to say, just give it to this guy, he's never rehearsed. I had to go to like all of these or her cels and anyway, and it's I won't be able to the point, but it's it's such a disrespectful. It's disrespectful of you as a professional is disrespectful of your time and the value that you put into your craft. You had been rehearsing. You were physically there when this decision was made. I mean, it's it's just so disrespectful and it just cultivates. This climate of gender-based disrespect that I think is I think as women, this probably sounds familiar to a lot of women listening, right? This idea that someone would make this. Seemingly flippant choice, and it would just. This upholding of gross disrespect, toxic bowl that we find in workplaces as women and I hate it. It makes it makes my skin crawl. It makes my skin crawl as well. And it sounds like before moon vez took over at CBS the network was a a better place to work, or at least it had launched a number of groundbreaking feminist TV shows including the Mary Tyler Moore show mod and Murphy Brown, but blood worth Thomasson points out that moon vez ushered in the CSI era, which is basically shows about women being victimized by men, though I have to say, I do love me some law and order which was on NBC. So a little bit of a problematic phase there. I agree. I agree with her assessment, but I have to say, like, I, I don't want anyone calling me out on Twitter when when I'm tweeting about how much I love law and order because it is my guilty pleasure. She says that she doesn't know what happened to all. The women lead shows that CBS, but she writes, I just know that the likes of them have rarely been seen on that network. Again, thanks to less moon best. I can only guess they all became fashionable swabs in crime labs on CSI Morello which is again, a pretty good line. That's that's bec-. Yeah, to make matters worse when she left CBS blood Thomasson, said, moon viz, agreed to pay only a fraction of the penalties do for failing to pick up her pilots when her agent asked the executive, what he should tell his client. She said, Moonves replied, tell her to go for self. And I think it sort of needs to be said that part of me wonders. You know, maybe this is just the industry, this Hollywood. This is how it works. It's all it's all games and it's all mind games and it's all business and it's all wheeling and dealing. But this is not. Okay. The way that she is a legend that he treated her is not. Okay. And I think that as long as we use platitudes like that, it's just business just Hollywood. We're making it okay to treat people. Oftentimes women and people of color and people who are marginalized in these field. We're making it okay to treat them Darvish and we're saying it's okay to hat cultivate an industry that you know, it doesn't matter how you treat people. It doesn't matter if you were contractually obligated to pay x. and you're just knock on a pay it because you're a big deal and you can do that and you're at the head of this network and blah, blah, blah, you're cultivating atmospheres where that's okay. And we should be better than that. You know, I think I saw a lot of people on Twitter saying like, oh, well, that's just the. As-as Hollywood, it's just business. I don't think that's a good excuse for what's happening here. And like we mentioned earlier, those those fines or not picking up the pilots were hefty. Those are big a lot of money there. And if you can only imagine if lesbian vez is one of the reasons that her pilots didn't get picked up and then she's having to pay the fine for it. That's ridiculous. And a huge. That's a huge deal for your career. Absolutely. Absolutely. And again, think about where she would be now this hadn't happened like she she flat out says that he derailed her career and that people. One of the lines in her essay that we're going to get to is she says, people always ask what happened to you. And she says, less moon, vests happened to me thinking about where she would be right now. She can have a room full of Emmy's if this one guy hadn't decided to throw a wrench and the entire trajectory of her career, which up until that point had been. Very successful. And she says that she wasn't harassed by moon Bez in a sexual way, but she did hear word of his inappropriate behavior. Quote, I began to hear from female CBS employees about his mercurial misogynist behavior with actresses being ushered in and out of his office is mantra. I was told was, why would I wanna cast him if I don't want to him? And he was an angry bully who enjoyed telling people I will tear off the top of your head and piss on your brain. That's just disturbing. That is a boss you do not want. Yeah. Can you imagine if your boss said that to you or that you heard that that was something that he that he. Said, you're. I, I would think that this is going to turn into. I've seen too many horror movies, but I would think it was going to be a horror movie and I don't need this guy anywhere near me. Yeah, it just sounds like he's someone who had a knack for saying really gross things in two thousand eleven. He said, quote, when I first got to CBS the sexiest woman on the network was Angela lansbury. But fortunately we're doing a little better than that now go rose. Oh, what a jerk. And another quote from Thomson's essay is also particularly horrible. She writes soon, I would hear how he had invited a famous actress to lunch in the dining room. Coming off the cancellation of her icon ick detective show. The star began pitching a new one. He informed her that she was too old to be on his network. She began to cry and stood up to go. He stood up to taking her by the shoulders and telling her I can't let you leave like this. She reacted suddenly touched, then he shoved his tongue down her throat. I know this happened because the star is the person who told me. That just when I read that I was enraged and I did. I did have a moment where I begin trying to deduce who that might have been. But ultimately it doesn't matter because it does that is such a. Just a terrible, terrible, terrible way to treat anyone. But especially someone who is your employees like that. That is just, I mean, can you imagine if that had been you? Can you imagine the roller coaster ride that your emotions would have been on. Yeah, that would have been. It would have been miserable. Again, I have a store that's kind of similar, but not as bad where I had a role and it was a really good role, but then the producer he asked me out and I said, no. And he was like, well, I guess, you know, now it's awkward and we can't work together and I was like, okay, and then like we were going to leave. And he said, you know, I think you do great work, and I would love to to work with you again, maybe not now, and I was like, okay, and then he tried to kiss me. Okay, we're never working together. You're good. All right now, I know, but that again, why should you lose an economic opportunity in our professional opportunity because of his penis? Why? Why? I don't think I should. I don't think. But alas, I don't make the rules. I'm trying to change the rules. I don't make the rules. Oh my God. This is. Oh, yeah. I'm so angry. Yeah, we're not. We're not even to the first advocate. Thomson basically says that lesbian vez blackballed and derailed her career and the careers of other women all because he didn't like those malady feminist on TV quote, over the years, even when an actress managed to get one of my scripts through an agent, the deal would immediately be killed. It was like a personal vendetta and I will never know why was it because I was championing the New South or an admittedly, aggressive feminist agenda or both when the legendary Bette midler informed moon Bez that she wanted to do a series with me. I'm told he denied her request when the singer Huey Lewis, whom less had become a namrd with chose meteorite a pilot forum is contract was cancelled. It would have been so easy not to mention honorable to simply tell me he was never going to put a show of mine on air. That was certainly his right. But instead he kept me hopping and hoping when I finally realized he was never going to put a show of mine on the air. I left. It was never really about the money anyway. I just wanted to work. People ask me for years, where have you been? What happened to you? Lesbian best happened to me, and I guess that's what it all comes down to for me is that you know, where would her career be? If he just said, listen, you're not my Cup of tea. The shows that you put on or not for me, it's not going to. I don't see it with this network. I'm sorry. She's, it sounds like she would have just packed up and left, but if found someplace else to work. But he never did that. He just kept her hoping and clawing and working and probably internalizing this, what am I doing wrong? I thought I was good at this went on for years and years until she wised up and realized it's not me. It's him. This is his thing. And I just think of all the time that she wasted. We didn't include it in the episode today, but she describes this sort of charm campaign that she waged. She talks about how she was voted most popular in high school and that she figured, certainly she could. Figure out a way to charm charm, this guy. And so she would be really nice. And really, she really tried to work with him and nothing that she did was going to convince him to put a show of hers on the air and just keeping her hanging on for so long when she could have been out flourishing at another network out, developing new things out working, I just think is so messed up and it really it just it makes me sad. It makes me sad that we as women, particularly women who are creatives have to put up with this. This is something that we have to put up with in the industry, and I don't think it's fair. It's cruel and. A distant. It's almost it's almost like a. Sadistic head game. Like she says, why didn't he just tell me it wasn't going to work after we this network because that's not a head game that that's not a power trip. A power trip is keeping somebody trying to impress you keeping someone hoping I'm calling and working for a long time. That's a power trip. Just honorably saying it's not gonna work out too. So you know, that's not a power trip and it's about power. Absolutely. And Thomson isn't alone. The reporting on less moon viz ouster at CBS also unveiled a new wrinkle that he waged a campaign against Janet Jackson, following the infamous Super Bowl, wardrobe malfunction, which will get into after quick break forward for much sponsor. Today's episode of stuff, mom never told you is brought to you by Robin Hood. Robin Hood is an investing at that lets you buy and sell stocks ETF's options and cryptos all commission free. So I don't know much about the stock market. That's why I was so happy to use robinhood. It's a non intimidating way for stock market newcomers like me to invest for the first time with true confidence. It's simple and intuitive, clear design and data, easy to digest, and it's an easy app to use their easy to understand charts and market data, and it updates on your phone. So you're always kept in the know and it's perfect for those who learn by doing like us. Robin Hood is giving listeners a free stock like apple Ford, or sprint help build your portfolio, sign up that mom stuff, Robin Hood dot com. That's a mom south that Robin Hood dot com. And we're back, thank you sponsor. So I should just say right off the bat before we get into talking about shading Jackson, I am Jana check said superfan. So full disclosure, you might be thinking, well, I just want everyone to know that we're all on the same page. I am a huge fan of accent fan that might color how I feel about a little bit of down on this situation, but it's want folks to know two straight up. Yeah, my my color things a bit, but you being an upfront and professional podcast. Thank you so of courting to a piece and the Huffington Post by Shara Lee Moonves had a personal vendetta against Janet, Jackson and vowed to destroy her career after her breasts was exposed for nine sixteenths of a second during the Super Bowl halftime show with Justin Timberlake in two thousand four. Do you remember that. I do remember that I didn't watch it, but I remember people talking about it afterwards. Yeah, I remember watching it live because I love to Janet Jackson and always have, and always will because she's a Queen. So of course, I watched that performance. And then after when we went, we went on her my whole family, like went to her concert when she came to play at Hampton roads in Virginia when I was growing up. But in case you've forgotten, people were outraged by this nipple America Online who sponsored the halftime show demanded a refund of the nine point, three million pay to do so several private citizens, even filed their own lawsuits against the broadcaster at the horror of seeing a nipple for that amount of time. Heaven forbid, we be exposed to nipple my God. Can you imagine? I'm scarred for life. I'll cover exactly exactly. You might need therapy for that one, Tennessee woman, even filed a class action lawsuit on behalf of all American citizens who watched the outrageous conduct. Oh, I mean, there's outrageous conduct at the Super Bowl, but I would say it's not that CBS an MTV, a subsidiary of Viacom, the parent company of CBS at the time which produced the halftime show based torrent of criticism at eight, five hundred and fifty thousand FCC fine. Now to be clear, both Jackson and Timberlake say that this was a legit accident. You might remember the phrase, wardrobe malfunction and being used to describe what happened during their routine Timberlake was meant to tear away the leather, exposing a red lace bra underneath a leather boost. But instead he accidentally ripped away everything, exposing her breast. But moon vez didn't buy this and thought it was an intentional ploy to stir controversy. He banned both Timberlake and Jackson from the two thousand four Grammys Timberlake issued a tearful apology to moon Dez and was unbanned and invited to perform. A Li writes that the CBS chief executive was furious that Jackson didn't make a similarly contrite apology to him. The fallout from the incident inflicted significant damage on Jackson's career, which until that point had produced ten number one hits and still reverberates to this day. This really kills me because I think that the popular narrative around this whole situation is that after the Super Bowl, Janet Jackson was so ashamed and disgrace. But what happened that she retreated from the public limelight and that you know, that's she sort of went into hiding or something that is not true. She continued to make albums. She continued to make music. She continued. To be her super talented, amazing self and put out hit after hit after hit or not. 'cause they weren't hits, but there were hits in my heart. They were three. But her career was intentionally. Sidelined by Leslie Moonves. So people, I think that the popular narrative is that she retreated from the limelight and she did it. Her career was. She was just being blackballed by this one asks. And one weird side note moon, Vaz's, wife, Julie Chen who just stepped down from her role on the talk. Following lesbian viz ouster said Janet, never apologized for the incident. She says that both parties would have been fine had they both apologized and that Justin apologized and that she didn't. Here's what she had to say their camps for all. Just come out and holidays for it happened and you'll be on the Grammys, the following week, one person, apologize, one person did and that following wing, Justin Timberlake who policies performance that Grammy's and Janet Jackson ought, but. Did you actually did apologize? She went on TV and apologize. So here's a listen. Unfortunately, the whole thing went wrong in the end. I am really sorry if I offended anyone that was truly not my intention. Yeah, it does sort of sound like that Julie Chen was sticking up for her husband and CBS and sort of rewriting history saying that Jackson ever apologized when you know she absolutely verifiably. Did. It does sound that way. And Elise says that moon vez ordered Viacom properties, VH one and MTV and all Viacom owned radio stations, stop playing Jackson songs and music videos, and the move had a huge impact on sales of her album Demidov Joe, which was released in March two thousand and four just a month after the Super Bowl, which by the way, after putting together the notes for this episode, I listened to that album and it slaps the good album. It tanked because of less moon has. Bridgette bridgette. You've gotta come. Oh, I know. I will bear a few people that I will defend to the death and Janet Jackson is one of them. I love it. Yeah, I side, no. I used to always tell my friends if anything ever happens to me like if I get killed or something like that in lieu of a funeral, please pass. A local ordinance says that all dance clubs in DC at midnight on my birthday have to play Jinnah Jackson's together again, and you can dance as wild as you want and nobody can ever get thrown out. It'll be like. Birgitta Saxon you're gonna do whatever you want are overalls dancing, dancing, you can't kill a guy, but you could stand on a table and dance at that at that tell you feel your body needs to express itself. I love those Bridget. I am onboard. Yeah. If anything ever happens to me events, my death and that way, please. I am on it. I'm on it as be nation reports that Demidov Joe's low sales were in part because she was blacklisted by clear channel communications, which at the time was owned by Viacom MTV and CBS radio as well as subsequent radio stations that made it virtually impossible for Jackson to promote her album, singles and music videos, and that is a huge deal. She basically was not able to vote this album at all. And I actually remember one of the reasons why, but we're able to go the whole, my whole family went to her concert for this album. And one of the reasons why we're able to go because the tickets were really cheap. I remember it was a rare family thing where the entire family. My cousins and stuff all went, and I think we were only able to do that because the tickets were kind of cheap. Now, I have to say many myself very much included belt that Janet's career was being stalled because of the incident while Justin was basically allowed to flourish. Timberlake, I think seem to kind of throw her under the bus in in subsequent interviews. After this happened, he said, I looked at her. They brought a towel up on stage. They covered her up. I was completely embarrassed and just walked off stage as quickly as I could. He also said, I'm frustrated at the whole situation. I'm frustrated that my character is being questioned, and the fact of the matter is, you know, I've had a good year are really good year, especially with my music, so I can't help. But notice that his talking about her, you know, they brought a towel on his face to cover her out. That just seems so dripping in shame that she should be ashamed, you know, cover her up, I, but so embarrassed. It really. Sort of distances his role in the whole thing, and kind of at least in my book seems to put the entire thing on her in a way that I just found find really, you know, shaving. Yeah, there were two people involved in that situation. Timberlake, sir. He did say two years later in two thousand six and my honest opinion now I could have handled it better. I'm part of a community that consider themselves artists, and there was something I could have done in her defense that was more than I realized than I would have. But the other half of me was like, wow, we still haven't found the weapons of mass destruction and everybody cares about this. I probably got ten percent of the blame and that says something about society. I think that America's harsher on women, and I think that America is, you know, unfairly harsh on ethnic people. Sorry, I shouldn't laugh, but it is sort of like Justin Timberlake discovers racism, you know, it's, it's, I shouldn't laugh because you know better late than ever, but it is sort of funny. He also says that he has quote made peace with Janet, which fine, but my obviously very biased book since he didn't use his recent Super Bowl performance to like bring Jinnah Jax and out, give her a heartfelt and public and meaningful apology, and then sit quietly while she performed. You know, five, deep cuts for Matt back catalogue. I'll always be suss of Timberlake, isn't my personal opinion. I know people like him. People are not gonna like at that, but I don't know. This happens publicly whether or not he's privately made peace with her whatever that means until he publicly says. I'm sorry for what happened to you. I will always. Be anti Timberlake a little bit. That what you just described as a Super Bowl, mid time halftime show. I never watched the Super Bowl that I would tune in for. Right. Same. We're just coming up with all kinds of good content ideas. In this episode, we are a Li alleges now that Janice career setbacks were an intentional thing that moon Bez engineered, Allie writes seven years after the two thousand four incident moon vez told several sources. He was furious when he found out Jackson had signed a book deal with Simon and Schuster for her book true you a journey to finding and loving yourself. Simon and Shuster is owned by the CBS corporation quote how the she slipped through Moonves asked while we're counting the story to a source who spoke to me, he told another source that heads we're going to roll as result of the deal. Yes, and you can kind of see how this wasn't just something where she was so ashamed by her boo, being out for a hot second that she. Retreated from public light that this actually wasn't intentional stalling of her career by less moon Moonves according to reporting. He bragged about it, and it was a thing that he that people knew that that was his. That was his vindamme that he held to spend at a four years. I mean, the book that you just mentioned that cannot in twenty eleven. That's years later years later he's still talking about she didn't. Jackson guy knows how to hold a grudge seriously. We have a little bit more for you. But first we're gonna pause for one more quick break for word from our sponsor. And we're back, thank you sponsor. So in conclusion, this whole thing is a great case study for the fact that gender based harassment is not always sexual, Linda bloodwork, Thomasson alleges that leads moon viz just didn't like the quote loud mouth speeches. Women made on designing. Women also tried to stomp out Janet Jackson's career because she wasn't apologetic enough following her wardrobe malfunction. Yeah, exactly. Gender based harassment can look like a lot of things. Sometimes it is sexual harassment, but sometimes it's a man sort of trying to blackball your career because you're the kind of woman. He doesn't like sometimes it's being mistreated systematically in a workplace. It doesn't always have to be groping and kissing for it to be wrong and for it to have a real negative impact on your career. Yeah. And unfortunately, I think it's something that happens all too often. So if this is something that's happened to you listeners. Please write in let us know. And this brings us to listener mail. Sarah roads. I live in former Swaziland too small country in southern Africa here. People are addressed by familial relationships whether you related or not. Rather than marital status, I'll save you the triple of pronouncing this this Wadi words, but it's a fairly simple formula, a man. Your age or younger is brother. A man older than you is father. A much older man is grandfather and the same applies for women with sister, mother and grandmother. You will typically be upgraded a problematic word choice. I know from sister or brother to mother or father upon getting married and or having children, whichever comes first. But both men and women switch over after marriage rather than only the women. Also you can still be mother or father, even if you've never been married or have no children, it's just a culturally respectful title based on your relative age to who ever is addressing you. Oh, this is fascinating. We, this was in response to our recent classic episode of miss MRs all of that confusion and. How it's different in other countries. So Sarah, thank you so much for sending as this. This is. It's really fascinating. Yeah, I liked it. You could be mother or father, even if you don't have kids. I sort of reminded me of how basically every adult that is close to my parents as my aunt or coal, they are not technically. Yeah, I have so many relatives. I know that's not what you are, but that's what I'm calling you. Exactly. Exactly. Victoria wrote. I am getting married at the end of September and have really pondered if I should take my future husband's name. We are not traditional math. Janta did not ask my dad and my hand, nor am I having my father walked down the aisle as I'm deciding to marry. No one is giving me away. My dad just gets to sit back and relax them a big day. I decided to take my husband's name one. I come from a large family, and my name is at no risk of dying out to my last name is very generic. You could probably guess it in two or three tries, and I don't feel a strong connection to it. My husband's family is much smaller, absolutely love his family, especially as paternal grandmother. She has such a strong connection to our history and has passed down such a rich, oral history of their family to me. So the idea of taking their name isn't something that threatens feminists nature at all. Secondly, on the travel alone episode, I enjoy traveling alone, theon say, has encouraged this. He. He thinks that demonstrates strength, and it also gives us unshared experiences that we can talk about even when we've been together for a long time. Wow. That is a an aspect of travelling alone that I hadn't even considered that if you're in a romantic relationship, having intentionally solo experiences can sort of keep your relationship. Interesting, and give you something to talk about and give you something to bond with your partner over even though you didn't share those experiences. That's a really interesting kind of sweet thing. I hadn't even thought about. Yeah, I love that because it's true if you've been in a relationship for a long time. And I mean, I've only the longest relationship I was in for three years, but I was glad that when we did things separately, it was kind of a chance to recharge then have things to talk about because we've covered a lot of the stuff already those three years. And I can only imagine that as a longer relationship would have compounded that. And I also love a lot of you've written about this last name, changing thing, having a generic last name and feeling like. No connection to really which I thought was an interesting aspect to this whole conversation. Hopefully thank you for writing in both of you and folks wanna right in themselves. Where can they do that? They can Email us at mom stuff at how stuff works dot com. And as always prevail on social media on Instagram at stuff on never told you and on Twitter at mom's stuff podcast, and thank you to our producer Andrew Howard, and thanks to you for listening. Hello, I'm angry and I'm Laurin vocal bomb and our show foodstuff all about these signs. History and culture of food drink is relaunching as saver re along with our super producer Dilling Fagin are hitting the road to find the stories behind all the things we like to eat and drink. We will be talking to the culinary creators and eaters of the world to get to the bottom of why we like what we like and how we can find more of those things. On our first trip, we went to Asheville North Carolina, a city that pulled itself out of a seventy year economic depression with beer and food. New episodes will be coming out Wednesday and Friday on apple podcasts.
Stuff Mom Never Told You
Aired 3 months ago 72:32
230: THE WITCH (2015) with VANESSA MCENERY of THE VD CLINIC PODCAST [Pod-A-Thon: Day 4]
This program is a proud member of you need vice unified unique voices. Learn more at you. Needles pods, dot net. Hello. My name's Patrick and I'm a scream Queen. I'm scream Queen and seller. You. Hello again. Graham at welcome to another episode of. The podcast were horror gets gay. This is episode, two hundred and thirty and two night. Eight is day four of the countdown to Halloween part of on which we are raising funds to support new alternatives, which is an organization that helps fight homelessness among the LGBT teen population, which is, of course raging out of control and to do that. We have a very special guest tonight talking about it very special movie. We have the nessa from the v d clinic podcast to talk about the two thousand fifteen movie the witch. So I am freshly back from my trip to camp crystal lake. It was a fantastic day. I was there with listener. Amy spears. We had a wonderful time, but I gotta tell you, I'm exhausted. I'm exhausted. I'll tell you all about it, but I'll do it another time because. Even though I'm tired, even though I don't wanna do this today. I don't wanna talk to you today. I don't. I'm tired. I wanna go back to bed. I can't, because their series work to be done underneath all this fun that were having on all the great guests and all the fun movies that we're discussing. We have serious business ten. There was a very serious problem among the LGBT teenage home. Let's population this too many of them. It's way out of control, and I've been giving statistics every day and their grim, and I have another one that ties in quite nicely with the one I talked about last time I told you the story about that kid on the line that was talking to who just kind of casually told me about how he has have sex with his awful guy who made him do awful unspeakable things just to this kid would have a place to sleep during the ice storms that were raging over Christmas time. Steer taught in that today's unpleasant statistic is that one out of three LGBT homeless teens will have to resort to survival sex. Sex to survive. Not sex for cash. Not prostitution. Survival sex. But we all know what that means. In that little fifteen year old kid, knowing what he was going to have to do. Still went with that man. Said he'd have a warm place to sleep at night. And the thing is that I didn't tell you the other day was that all the other kids align were not going. They knew exactly who he was talking about. They've all been there. Through vaulting and it's depressing. But do I judge them now because what set scream, queens, golden rule. Again, fight or flight survived the night make to the vinyl real. They're doing that, but my God, they shouldn't have to. And you can help very simple going over to fundraise dot new alternatives and y, c, dot org, slash s q for scream, queens, and make a donation. And you know what I'm asking at this point, I'm doing twenty one episodes in twenty one days, and I'm asking please consider a minimum of twenty one dollars as donation. Plain simple, help. Stop this ridiculous thing that's going on. For we get started to have a couple of people that I would like to thank first of all. We have Timothy Sirnak easy. Thank you very much, sir. No, by man's going to become an after you for your donation sir. And we also have Aaron Stewart, Aaron, you are a prince among men. Thank you very much. And finally we have Jeff Baldry from the skewered universe podcast who gave an incredibly hefty donation of over one hundred dollars. Thank you, Jeff. Thank you, Jeff. You have skewered my universe in the best way possible by skewering their donation list with that really very generous donation. We are now sitting at two hundred and sixty seven dollars. The goal is twenty five hundred at this rate. I need about. Four donations day for the rest of the podcast for the rest of the pot of on route to meet the goal. Only you can get me there. Okay. So again, please. Rainier purs- make it hurt a little bit. I know I'm asking a lot frisking for twenty one dollars minimum. If you can't do that, please do what you can. But I'm just if I know you can. I know you can't. They get less stupid thing you bought that you didn't need. How much did that cost? Can these kids need help. And needed from you. Fundraise that new alternatives at mossy dot org, slash s Kim. Okay. That's all my lecturing for today because daddy's tired. So I'm going to bring on Vanessa, and we're going to talk about though which which was a controversy movie. You either loved it or you hate it either way you might learn something from Vanessa because we have an unusually intelligent conversation for this show. So I'm going to stop my acking bring on Manasseh, but first, let's take a listen to the Raila. What we out into this wilderness defined. Leave not country kindred afoul this houses for once. For the kingdom of God. Let's just pray. This fumble. Luda Nova Guinot Hopi though lead my sin, I repent trophy evil. We tend to the ever showed Easter Murphy. Nobody. He'll be. The report. So joining me for this installation of that, how weaned marathon is the gal that I am thrilled to know in brea lodge, one of my favorite people on the face the planet, and she's also one of the hosts of the VDI clinic podcast lifted. Let's. Let's. How you doing. I'm just dandy you're so I'm good. I'm good. And we have gathered here today. Brothers and sisters. We have gathered hit today to talk about a movie from two thousand fifteen. I'm going to. I'm going baptism. This is nothing to do with what the hell I'm gonna run with it works it. It does work. It's religious fervor because we are talking about the controversial film, the witch. Yeah, the Vivit depending. Exactly. Exactly. It's pronounced which people they didn't have w back then. Thank you. Okay. Before I go any further, Vanessa, I have to apologize to you because I reference you on the show a lot and for especially in recent times, I'm always tend to refer to you as listener for nessa because that's how I know you. I keep forgetting to plug the fact that you are on a fabulous podcast. I'm actually on to now really. I worst friend. It's okay. It's okay. What another one devour the podcast. I, you know what you did tell me about. Yeah. The show was around six years and then one of their co host David industry senior who's actually my original host on vehicle, he retired from podcasting, and so they asked me to join them over there. That's I'm over there doing all horror all the time. And then with the clinic, undoing book and movie. And we kind of have a just a variety of things, but tend to go with a more horror just because that's that's just kind of when the things I did. You know. Tell you a story of this for the listeners as well? Yes. Some of you might remember this is a good year ago where I had a date with someone and things got smooch e and six going towards the bedroom. He says, oh, before we go any further, I to tell you that just tested positive for Cephas. That's not funny, but no. And then he was like mad that I didn't want to go any further. Yeah. And then I was like, okay, I'm just gonna go to clinic and get checked at anyway. And then that day I got an invite on three clinic, and I was really what happened like that patient. Confidentiality. There is. Podcast about fi TV. Oh, it's Canessa. We'll in my original host with David in. So it was an David end when he retired from podcasting by a new co host was Darren, so. Okay. I it somebody with a d to be my co hopes the Dow was actually just purely coincidence how it worked out, but it's coincidence or Qismat who can say. But the funny thing is, is that my mother, she's like, what is that vagina and dick? I'm like. That's where my mom's and goes. Okay, that's okay. Anyway, it's one of those shows that you would not know what it's about from the name 'cause I was our fight in every time I plug it or people to look it up. I'm like, please put in Viti clinic podcast like a half, a clear sky. Just because as much as I want you to be educated in safe out there, you also want downloads every now and then as well, right. Eliminate some confusion. Okay. So Vanessa, since you are the guest, it is your job to give me a thirty. Second elevator, speech, plot summary of the witch starting. Now. So here we are in England Minglan, sixteen thirties, and amid religious fervor, there's potential witchcraft and madness. Okay. That was a really general plot summer, but I will accept it. Because I think you could get into the nitty gritty of some of the action right away, but there's a certain amount of just. Atmos- this movie so atmosphere. Yes. I think that that sets the stage and there's so much that even with as the action unfolds, your magic nation still runs wild as we're still questions that are unanswered, oh many, many questions that are on on ads. That's what I like about it in open front interpretation. And when you said controversial, I think that's part of the controversy comes in is because a lot of people want them. No, they wanna know distinctly, you know, x. y. z.. Right. Not necessarily that right. And also just on the surface, the movie itself isn't particularly scary, but I noticed this time around that right there on the title card. It said the witch. New England folk style? Yes, yes. Not a tale of terror. Now tell Har this is something that's been passed down from generation to generation to generation via oral tradition or whatever, trying to be promised to be pets. Have you seen the extras on the like DVD or boring? I have not. I have not. I I do not own a copy. I watched them actually, and there was an interesting Cuna with the director and he was talking about how, because yes, there was a certain it was Acuna that was done in Salem, partly with the historical society in they were talking about the historical accuracy of the film as far as the witchcraft trials and things like that. But the director said he wanted to combine that with these folktales that were around in New England, but had been there in Europe. That these people carried over in some of these archetypes that pop up were more prevalent in Europe, right? You know. So it may be not necessarily a hundred percent accurate to Salem witchcraft, right? But oral tradition by definition is not accurate in exactly it's the telephone game Brent, and there is so much of this story that is the telephone game. Yeah. Like who's telling the truth and what is the truth? There is all that. So. The other thing I was looking at this, I'm doing what? What? What is the moral of all this? And it also feels not only does it have aspects of the folk tale. It also has a feels like a fable. Yes, absolutely. Which is a morality tale? It's usually told with some sort of animal characters. Oh boy, we got tons of that. Exactly. And that's kind of locked means when if it. Okay. So what's the moral like, what's what's? What's the thing that's causing everything to happen here that's bad? Not would have to say it said in the first few seconds during the trial of the father was going on. His family is getting kicked out of its community and they were what's the word I'm looking for settlers. There were settlers war intern probably kicked out of England. 'cause that's what settlers were their religion restraint for England get out, and they came here in this family's version of religion was too extreme for the extremists. Exactly. So they're also kicked out and they have to go off to the wilderness and in his. Trial, they talk about his his prideful conceit. And I wrote it down to Mike. Yep, prideful concede that is what it's all about. His father refusing to bend to admit that he's ever wrong about anything. And if baby he did, maybe none of this would have happened. True, true by the mother has a certain amount to where she doesn't want to admit things either true term. But I hope to say that she wouldn't be given the patriarchal nature of the society would not be in the situation that she was in Davos feelings had she been. Community because of someone's bridal conceits. Agreed. Yeah. Yeah. One of the things that continues to blow my mind is that for the director, what's his name? Eggers Richard Eggers proper proper, Robert Akers for his first major motion picture to get a major studio released like this to have the sheer balls. Try to do it in an authentic, Essex accent. Yes, dialect. We'll end the even the dialogue, some of it was taken verbatim from historical documents. Yeah, I heard that from diaries and things like that. But when I saw this in the theaters at a private screening 'cause I'm fancy. I just remember kind of having to hang on the edge of my seat and pay extra attention to everything. Just to follow the plots answer, ask that of general, general release audience is asking a lot, so it's a ballsy move real, right, right. No, I agree. Because like you, I have a certain amount of theater training myself, and I have this background reading. You know, these documents are plays whatever from other time periods. And so I'm more comfortable than I know I'm more comfortable than some other people that would be going to see this movie, you know, as far as listening to this and even I admit it was nice to be able to watch it this time and throw on the subtitles because you there, things that you think you're hearing and. Wait a minute. I had to go back and yet. I mean, it definitely helps to be able to see it at home. Like I said with some titles, it is. I understand where it would be difficult for a general audience. Yeah, and there's so much. There's such a a wondrous overload of just the production values. Oh, my God, yes. As a costumer, a farmer costumer. I just, I marvel because you can. I mean they're so accurate. Yes, that time period in just you can even see like the stitching on certain things the exact way they would have been constructed, and I know that that house and some of the sets like that they completely built from scratch. Yes. And they were trying to build them as they would have been built in the sixteenth thirties. But that it tends to detail is amazing. And I think it all really comes across from me anyway. And I realize a lot of people look at the movie and say, but nothing happens. The so much happen. I would say the exact opposite thing happened. It's just not in your face. It's scares. It's not heads rolling across the floor, that sort of thing it. It's creeping sort of infection to the whole thing, which I love. In what's this? The stupid. We had this discussion on devour a couple months ago. The stupid term elite horror. Yeah, I don't. I don't. Sorry. Sorry as I'm sorry, you don't have to have an English degree like I do to be able to understand. I saw the movie in the theater with general audience, and there were relenting people just, you know who you would here talking about it and that understood it completely and sure. Yeah. Again, maybe they missed dialogue here and there, but that can happen in any movie the truth force. Of course. I know I when I first okay, we're, we're really jumping ahead of ourselves here, but I'm just thinking in particular, the son, Caleb in his final scene while his next to final Saint his final scene as a living person. Let's put it that way when he's in that religious rapture or a mockery of religious Rafter. Right. Couldn't understand a word he was saying, and it didn't matter it scare the hell out it. Yeah, whatever he's doing is wrong. This is all wrong. People speaking in tongues, kinda creepy terrifying thing. Yeah, yeah. And even when you watch videos that are from a church now and it's supposed to be joyous ceremony, if you have someone speaking tons grew up down south, let me tell you. Goat. Thankfully, I was raised Catholic said in have to deal with you, hey, Latin, a few perks of being raised Catholic. Thank you very much. We just got Latin every once in a while. God, I love Latin mass on that weirdo. Anyway, I wanna understand less about what's going on. But no, I know exactly what you mean when I was working somewhere on one of my tours, we were down south somewhere in the deep south and is in k. mart. Yeah. And some girl in the aisle with me got touched by the spirit started speaking in tongues. And then all of a sudden crowd of thirty people around me holding hands speaking in tongues, and people just going on the shopping like there was nothing wrong with this. People would be calling the police if this was happening in New York. No, sir. Nah, this is weird. Yeah. Yeah, this is weird. That's just judgmental on my part. You know, hey, what's weird at? That's exactly what the movie saying, what's weird for you? Exactly. Yeah. But so the basic plot of the movies that this family is been expelled from their community, and they have to go off the wilderness and find their home a new home. And apparently they picked the absolute worst bought to do so. Well, in its particularly cruel winter. Because nothing goes right for them. They're the crops die. The animals aren't particularly forthcoming. I mean, even the chickens are laying enough eggs. Exactly. Nothing's going well and, oh, by the way, this seems to be a witch. The area who does lines. Well, maybe just a little bit. Yeah. I mean, they are awfully close to the would. They are all close the woods and of course that's going. That's classic biblical stuff there to be lost in the wilderness. Is to put yourself in with the devils, right? A warning warning a state close to civilization, don't stray from the path little red riding. It's all those warnings that they did not heed and speaking of little red riding hood. There is the scene where the witch Glamour's Caleb and his wearing the reg caught that caught that. She was there. They're, they're, it's not obvious like initially in its wait. No, that's because the lighting is not super bright though you can barely see her features are difficult to make out. But that hood is like. Yeah. So you know, they're setting up. Things are sort of, okay, they're struggling but that you also when they're kicked out, the mother is so totally pregnant, bright, drag that woman through the wilderness like eight months pregnant. What kind of sadist are you? Son of a bitch. She's already got four kids or two. Four, three, four. That's right twins in the you. Right. You're stupid. Ass twins who I'm sorry, but I would have lost those kids to begin with little munchkins. There have noxious and I love them, but you've got you. When you and I differ in the eldest daughter, you got Caleb the son and the twins, mercy and. Murphy engineers Jarvis like Chuck Chuck, definitely. Joan. Another have the new baby. Sammy, he's at Tora bowl. He's not around long though, because what happens. He's tasty, which meet his tasty, which mate. That's good over a spit. I wish that scene had not been in in the trailer. Thomas playing peekaboo. Yeah, with with baby Samuel, and he just disappears in between peak and boop. Which. Which. Not TC h, but begs the question of how long time passes in that moment. Is it truly just a second or two that she has her eyes closed or is it longer? Right. I mean, it already from that point, cut the movie as is already setting up like don't necessarily believe what's going on because there's plenty. It's so empty all around Thomas and Samuel that someone would have to be pretty early, even someone sprinting with the baby. Like even if it was a hawk, that's what I mean it the time lapse would have to be there have to be something going gone. Yes, yes. Transporter device via star Star Trek. I mean, I'm just saying. Clearly that you saw that you solved the whole all because of cabin car? It is okay. But this starts is whole thing with Thomas because really clear that the daughter Thomasson is blamed for everything constantly. Right EV, even that goes wrong is Thomas fault. That's kind of where the whole story is founding Unseld. It's all about this horrible repression that this particular character is and not just from the time period and the societal thing, but her family really, really takes everything out on her. She's the absolute scapegoat for this family, and it's interesting in families where you see abuse, you will see like parents abusing children. It's not uncommon to see like one child get all the abuse heaped on them or can't be Caleb. He's the boy right of Windsor too young. Yes, exactly, right. So someone's got to be blamed for all this and the campy us because we're adults and we have, we know God better than you will ever know. Exactly. And of course, so in because she's a girl one and two, she's at the point of her burgeoning sexuality. Yes, as I, yes, a young woman and she's a teenager, come on a worm moons raging defiant naturally sore. She's an easy scapegoat easy. And also just to take a moment about this particular family and also just this particular branch of religions view of God and the nature of man. This ain't no Lovin huggy squeezy God. No, no, this is all testament smites mice might and all of them are garbage. EV man is garbage from the second. You are born at your lucky that God even bothered to listen to your prayers. If he does it all. Yeah, and sin is crawling every into your body, and that's what you living with on top of just daily guilt of whatever you've done wrong today heaped on top of all that it's just awful now, unbearable way to live like water for the first scenes where you made Thomasson. She's saying her prayers, and she's listing her sins. And one of them's was that she played on the Sabbath right right kid. What do you suppose that's a sin? You go to hell for that? Oh, yeah. With the fuck. Yeah. Yep. It we're not fucking around so that the God of love is not there. So this is if this atmosphere wasn't cold and harsh and yielding already on top of that, you ain't getting no religious support either from whatever to guide you gotta turn to that. God is just like, yeah, whatever. Yeah. Scary stuff, and that is what it was like. I didn't know some people like that to this day. Yeah, that's true. I again, I grew up in Alabama. I was glad that. I mean, I I at least you win. I'm just saying that I lived in the more quote unquote liberal part of the bible belt because it was a mid sized city. It was a coastal city, and there were Catholics there because the Catholics even the ones that were still, you know, shaming you and guilting unit everything because you know Catholics do anyway, but, but it. It wasn't as bad as the evangelical Baptist and some of those others that are truly hard core yet where it's just there's, it's like you have no chance to do any good or be a good person. You're just bad to begin with. Yeah, it because they have a discussion after I'm Caleb and his dad have discussion after Sam disappears, and they realize that by this point, yes, to be dead. I've of the wolf is eaten a Meri's starved to death and Calvin very upset is my baby brother and hell. He wasn't baptized, right? And the the answer was just something like let us not speak viz again. Yes, it was and split. Again, this goes back to and he says, well, I wouldn't have him baptize. Wasn't going to take it back to those people to baptism. And there's that pride again. Damn their son by your by your own beliefs. And what does he three weeks old, three months old, whatever that deserves every Leslie hellfire. Sure. Well, I guess we'll, yes, sure. I mean, he wasn't doing any work on the Sabbath. Whatever you're supposed to be doing. I his, it's just. Scary. On the Sabbath. He was pooping in his diapers. I mean, like ver- baby that's work. Mealy sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. But. So after after this appears this talk of which little bit little bit kind of hints of it in the family that they start. Start suspecting that there's a witch in the woods and the woods and till little mercy little, no neck Murphy little shit on. Sorry. You know what? Black Filipo. First of all, black Phillip shows up blacks by the way the boots can we talk Kelly talk for a moment here that in a movie that's all about, you know, the feminine ideal and discovering one through whatever means that me whatever means possible. And on. Unbinding one from the ties of the patriarchy that the breakout star of the damn movie is a male goat. Everybody loves black, Phillip. I remember we'll woodenness came out there. People were like what? For president, these different memes. Sure. For the live deliciously campaign. Totally totally. Yeah. Well, they this goat just shows up one day. And they're able to wrangle it and put an occasion. Now they have the blackout and the twins are always playing with the goat singing songs about the goat talking with the go and nobody's paying any attention to it because that's what kids do. Except Duke do may be this is the wrong go to be playing games with maybe that goat really is whispering in there because you know, mercy comes Franson by while the the other two during actual work, yes. Sing on the which would I'm the witch the would I'm gonna heck, sue. And then when they start yelling at or not to say such they, she says, black Phillip says, says that I can say what I like. Absolutely. Sober told the game right from the beginning. But again, you pay no attention to it really. 'cause I brushed it off. I, I start most use the kid. It's not the kids, obviously not the kit. Oh. Oh. Oh, I see. Now I watched it this time I'm going. I'm watching him. I'm watching black Phillip, infect. Abs- to buy one by one by one, so absolutely. And what it makes would it made me think of. Just in. I mean, partly because it came out not that long ago was hereditary and you see the exorcist other films wear a jiman- or the devil, or whatever possessed or infiltrates I, but the children? Yeah, before it starts heading to the adults. Right? And it's it's a subtle thing because yes. Society sees that. Children are just throw away. They don't have anything really important to say, why should we believe them their innocence their innocent or, oh, they just play make they play, make believe. Uh-huh. Also, kids are bonding seven things in the face the planet 'cause they don't know any better yet. Kids liked to pull the winds off a flies or said ants on fire with a magnifying glass just to see. True. There's a cruel to kids that we grow out of most of us. Hopefully we love that people tend to ignore when situations like this, and it is presented to your right advocates kids like I'm the witch. Whether she's playing a game or not. She is in league with the devil at this point in one way or another. I also have to say that during this during the reports of this movie, Caleb the older brother takes to boob shots at his older sister. Yeah. And what his mother notices that the solution is to get rid of her her fault. Of course, it's her fault for developing. Right? Not his fault for looking not his fault for having a pure thoughts. She didn't even know. Poor girl didn't even know she was asleep one time and she was busy doing work. The other time she had no idea. Her brother was checking out Iraq. It's never the man's volt. I learning that the older I get the, the Boise, the more eyes are open to the sort of thing. What people are irritated with a lot in. It's like nobody does anything about anything like the father, all he does chop wood, real. All the mother does cry. We just to some extent you can understand the mother. She's grief-stricken again and hormone flooded in hormone flooded because the child wasn't that old. He might have already had some postpartum depression. Yeah, let's throw in that out there. That's what I mean. I'll top wallets is like on top of the grief of losing a child and the guilt of all that and the non closure of it, right. There's a right battle of hormones going on that woman's body. I excuse anything that woman does, but yeah. Well, I don't. Regards the missing baby? Yes, that I can excuse that she checks out. Yeah, I get that totally. But I'm Trump. Well, first of all a situation like that living like that, you will always need it. But also that's his escape, totally. He is useless at everything. The fire, the the crops fail, the animals are sick. My kids dying. It's the only thing he can do. I mean, he's not complete. He's not man, obsessed James Berlin. You know, Amityville crazed man shop in would no, it's the one productive thing that he can do exactly. It's the only thing he has to do to feel useful and to feel productive in it in a way provider for his family. You're as all he has left at that point. Yeah. So I mean, so people like, well, this is really limit. I get it. There's a lot of rage in a lot of grief to this, like he can't express any other way. By chopping wood because he can't pray about it because God doesn't care. Obviously he doesn't want to go to the community to ask for help. No. 'cause he's prideful precisely. Uh-huh. All you had to do is take his family back and this might have stopped. Maybe or slowed down something something would have changed, at least you would have been out of there? He would've changed. Definitely. Yeah. It wouldn't have been quite as easy. For the dark forces here to isolate everybody and infiltrate their heads and all that other stuff. 'cause it would have been distractions or something anything, but there was so much nothing out there. It in. And that's one thing that you get is this place that they've that they're in its isolated from civilization, and they just they're out there with their own thoughts. And that's going to kinda make you even if there's not some sort of which crafts or potential devil demon possession going on, you're gonna start losing your mind a little bit. Yep, to I mean, even the best person is going to just the appear isolation of that environment when the condition the living conditions of props, failing farm animals, not producing it. Yeah. So. I mean, it's if you want to look at it as in there is no actual supernatural aspect at play in that. It's really just in their heads. I mean, it's there, it's there. It's there except does that ending, which kind of on the nose. I don't mind though. I don't mind. I don't mind the possibility there. It's it's working on several levels and I love all of it. You could even explain that in a way as if she imagining it, or is it really happening. Because like I said, it goes back to that. What are we finding out is a real truth here and can't be ever. Is there truth. Because you have so many, wow, you just turn it. You. Oh my God. He's just turned into Guiliani. Trove is in the eye of the or no? No, it's not. No, it's not. I choose not to believe that I'm rowing it out there as food for thought. Is just wear. I was getting ready to go. I know I choose to know completely believed that. Yes, the witchcraft witchcraft had, you know, has infiltrated their midst. There's still a certain amount of the psychology. That's all. Yeah, yeah, true in. And so there's not exactly stability there and. Maybe that's the unstable home situation that allows for the demonic forces to come in. That's the case. I'm surprised. I'm not kicking down my door. Maybe they are smooth g. I got blacks Mucci over here. Blacks Nucci would like to live delicious. Late then opened another one of them, cans motherfucker. You wanna pet all this. You wanna taste delicious, knit LV all. Oh, and she kicked the door open as it was saying that high baby. Of course. Hi baby. Yeah. I trying to think where to go this so many ways to talk about this and I'm not sure which way to go the. I guess just with the witchcraft for, but the the seed that actually this time around. Struck mate. And shook, mate and away. I don't normally get shook was what I said before was calebs final. Now we get a lot of what's the word I'm looking for familiar. Dennis see the witch appearing as a. Hawk crow, rather or as a rabbit. People who scary rabbit move well scour rabbit on like, but it's not a rabbit witch. She's watching. Care, we'll talk you then I can't possibly help you. They're all kinds of animals throughout this off. Yeah. Uh-huh. And when you have a rabbit which is normally skittish and nervous looking dead in the face, like. Hey, what's up? No, I'm not moving. You've got a problem with that. Ain't a rabbit. Something else going on something wrong with that rabbit. But he's encountered several these animals and he's trying to bring home some meat from a trap that they've set out any snakes out in the middle of the night with Thomson, of course, Casaus gots the blame for this later. But. In the process, they wind up losing the horse dog and Caleb because Caleb, as you mentioned earlier, runs into this, get separated from Thomason in the storm and is to do st-. By this witch throwing glamour, making yourself beautiful except for that one hand. Yes, the nice touch. It wasn't nice touch. But when he when he comes home, he, they find him several days. Later naked is sin burning with fever. Says. And he's delirious. And I guess you know, unconscious for few days, but then all of a sudden he has this big scene where he's screaming. She's Amish, you wants my blood. She's picking at me. She's pecking pinching me. And then in the midst of that, he goes quiet. He raises up out of his bed and speed us. This beautiful verse about the glory of God and seeing God and kissing God upon his lips and how it very sexual thing about. Seeing the face of God, which was based on a poem, which was verbatim poem from the time which was also based on literature. But it was one of the things I said, how would that boy who cannot read. No, that pump. So he can read. They made them read the bible, oh shit. That blows my whole theory. But finish your theory. Well, no, I was just saying it just for some reason, terrified. Just not. I just disturbed me entirely believing, beautiful face. So absolutely raptures with join them going. This is probably allied Hanes, say in the face of God. He seem exact opposite. Right? Doesn't know yet, of course, or it's, you know, the, you know, the devil speaking through him playing games yet. He saved. Kiss on the mouth and take his tongue. No serious because that's kind of what the level of that was. You know, it is his young board. It'd be speaking, dies, the big smile on his face. Yeah. And it really disturbing me when I got this other nonsense going all round with with the. Two little ones playing Salem, witch trials. She's she's because the kids are blaming the older daughter saying that she's the witch. Oh, she's, she's, she's blocking us from praying. She's making us. Forget our prayers. No, everybody's again blaming listen for everything because it was. Right him when Caleb disappeared. She was the only one who was there when he when he was found, blah, blah, blah. Everything's all her fault. And the poor thing, and this, I love this actress. She is so good in this role for someone so young to able to adapt to his language so well. And this was her first movie. Yeah. And then they put her in split and give her nothing to do. That was disappointing. That was very disappointing. I one of the few people who enjoy split very much. Who's okay. Okay. Yeah. Yep. So the family members of one, but when he gets him wonderful, great imagery like the the dead son, both dead sons coming back to see mom. Yeah, with that with a missing silver chalice that we heard so much about. Say, oh, we'll be with you again, mom, hey, you wanna sign this book and she's like, oh, another famous book that the devil wants to make you sign. She's like, no, no, I have to feed Samuel. When the next time you see her, she's not breastfeeding a baby breastfeeding a crow or raven something. Ever nipple. I was going to mention that that is what disturbed me most this time was that that scene because the way the transition is yes where, okay, they're asking sign the book and everything. And then she's like, yes in to breastfeed or the baby. And you see the crow nipping at her breast. She's bleeding in. I mean, that is a visually disturbing image, but her facial expression and that laughter rapture, the last or she has a hugging us this time made that like hairs on the back of my neck stand up. I was just like, oh, I was just so off putting. It was so off putting and Sadruddin another parallel laid weird image parallel with hereditary where they had that whole thing in there like about the where they alluded to the fact that like the twenty Clint character, her mother, rough edge, the the daughter, her granddaughter, her granddaughter, and you see the miniature young -sition and I, yeah, and I saw something else another horror movie recently, so has been occurring thing. I've been thinking about a lot, but it's faded terrifying, write it down. Yeah, the winner have no children. Thanks. No, thanks. Oh, yeah. So one of the things we this time to is that later on the the parents are in bed and he gets up, I don't know to chop wood or something and does not notice that there is a huge blood stain, yes, on his wife down over her breasts. Just walked past blind blind blind loss in his own world. Again. Yeah, being a man, I got my own problems. You deal with your bleeding boob on your own time. He's just so blind to all the dynamics in. Is out of that pride in a way that he's just like, no, I am doing everything correctly. Everything is just fine here. You know that way. If he actually looked to the blinders off, he could see this insanity. Yeah. At how far it's four, indoor evil. And or yes, because yes, again, just the general religious hysteria of that time period that would occur for someone who your thought was a non believer, much less. You get into the situation where a my God children were missing or dying and that kind of thing. Yeah, I it just in, oh, maybe there's a witch in the woods. It's, you know, there is a. Hysteria I keep going back to that to a how woman's word. Named after a woman problem. So what everybody needed to do in this house is to get fucked is what you're saying. Maybe. The brother needed to stop looking at a sister. I do say that there's nobody else. That's the thing. Oh, that's the thing. I'm going to happen. I know that but still yelling at you. I'm yelling. What do you think is going to happen? You've isolated kids, anybody, everybody? What did you. What did you. Not read flowers of the attic, of course, has been written for three hundred years, but that's not the point right now. You should know these things incorrectly. I mean, they do know what some level because we have to get rid of her. Yeah, we're gonna have grandkids, seven heads. But no, they don't. Well, they tried to doesn't work, does not have in that. Well, of course not not these guys steak. She's the, she's the juicy piece of meat. Thomas the good piece of mate. Play with all you. But that's the one I really watched. She's most interesting to me because honestly she has. She's, she knows she's not a perfect person but tries to be a good person. A genuinely good person genuinely tries to pray in belief elec-. She believes. Maybe like not to the crazed level at her parents too, but she tries. She thinks that's what's right if. Epoca we certainly get the feeling she tries more than your brother. Well, he doesn't have to try. He's the boy. She's a boy wholesale with him and his father who he's. Reciting stuff about how awfully is like his bible teaching. So he is he's required to do some stuff. Of course, of course, he's required to do something, but you know, he doesn't have. He doesn't have boobs to distract people with. That's true and boobs are of the devil. Yes. What what was that crow eaten? Boobs boobs. Boobs. Oh, comes down to the evil boobs or the brilliance of go. You wanna look at it or the ugliness that festers when you oppress women. Thank you. Yep. Because I mean the mother, her grief has never been properly addressed. None of Thomas issues are ever dressed. Everything's her fault because she's a woman. The mother blames everything on. It's just. It was not. Coincidental to me that I'm skipping way to the and I know this is probably not going to change anybody's this conversation, not changing anybody's in the movie and we've been all over the place, but I don't care. This is tough to talk about as I'm learning, but. The end where Thomasson is the only one left standing? Yes, she went in the house at what's the first thing she did. She took off her course at. Do you have a bigger symbol for the repression of women? Thank you. Macoris it? Yeah. Yeah. And once that course, it's off black Phillips like ohi. Did that feel good? I got. You know what's gonna feel better. Only by throwing off the shackles this horrible, oppressive puritanical society that she's able to find one, tiny, fuck it bit of happiness. We'll exactly in. It's actually not even just a tiny bit of happiness, though. It's a Hugh. I know it's a massive amount of happy. Funny. Next to say, I was just gonna say the look on her face and things very end when she has ascended is a look of pure ecstasy. And I think it's no accident that she extends her arms out in almost a crucifixion pose. Like. But yes, I was gonna say, but as you see, also in many images of saints too, on some of them in ways, some saints have been described as having a certain amount of religious ecstasy. This isn't necessarily an ecstasy that comes from religion. What is the freedom from religion? Exactly. The ecstasy, an, hey, I have this whole bunch of people around me that feel the same way. And I think it's no accident. Yes, that they're all women. 'cause men don't get this shit. Mendome deserve this kind of pleasure kit. Everything else. Yeah. Yeah. And I know a lot of people even made fun of one black Phillip. Started speaking in the first thing he's what's down. No, the taste of butter, yes. That's so stupid. Real. Are you really that rich? You would have to be to have butter letter in that day and age? Uh-huh. Oh, my goodness to be able. I mean, even if you had your own cows. Enough. That's not sell milk. Luxury. It's a luxury unspent on for that. I'm sure for that family, somebody you would never have anyway, because I'm sure it was sinful. True. It'd be straight up sinful and you know a new dress? Yes. Would you like to see? We'll get fuck. Yes, I know nothing, but this damn farm. Yeah. NASA his voice. It's combination of goose pimples panty drop. It's supposed to be the hot. Well, they held it. You're scaring the hell. At the same time, I got a little rumble at the back of my neck going. Yeah, and that's exactly what it's supposed to be anything you want. Yeah, it's exactly what it's supposed to be. Click Clack mother fucker. Click Clack. Sure. Yeah, one of the things you mentioned earlier, which just about this kind of life in this time period. Okay. I have to go musical for a minute. There's a musical little numb. Go call quilters. It ran on Broadway for for a hot minute, and it's all taken from diaries like prairie diaries and diaries that explained the stories of the quilts that women made cause the at the time at the time, the only two acceptable nod work pastime for women. Was writing a diary or making quilts. That's the only artistic expression that you were allowed. And so that's where all the truth and the stories in the stuff that they can ever say out loud, wound up and. Studies showed that women that didn't engage in it outlets often. Mental illness was an issue like they do not have artistic foreign virtues expression. Women on the prairie would go mad and I don't know why brought that up. But. This made me think of this. These women had nothing. This could be prairie madness. Again, it's, it's that that 'isolation of, I mean, Thomas just doing work on the mothers, just taking care kids really. I know it. And and they're such a small quote, unquote community. They everybody has to work fate, aren't able to hold. I on Sundays to see other people in the village because there is no village, right? There's nothing right. And that's mad, they man. Yeah, you don't get that inter that that socialization with other people, your kids are gonna be. Yet looking at their sisters like. Or they're just they're start turning on each other? Yeah, I was. I'm not even blaming the boy for looking at assist boobs because right, what? No one else he's only human and then you're, you're that age, you're confused, but everything anyway, and wow, that's something new and that makes me feel something weird. Yeah, understand either of those things. I don't know why she has those now on our. Why feeling that bright? Maybe I should look again. Yep, still feel it. Well, we, I feel a little bit more. Yeah, can't ask you that about it. Heavens, no, no, no, no. So I mean, there's no alad for anybody here. They're all damned doomed. Anyhow, aren't in school? No, they're not. They're not. There is literally nothing. Nothing out there except the devil and the witch switch what somebody what I blew somebody's mind when the movie came out there. Those really stupid because there's only about the which which, which and you only seen the witch relate thirty six in the whole movie. The move and movies called the witch and there's no witch. And I said, let's not true. I said, do you realize that perhaps the title does not refer to the woman in the woods? What do you mean? I'm like. It's thomas. Title refers to Thomas hurts her journey to becoming the witch. Yeah. So yeah, that's why it's called that. It's not about the woman in the woods. No. And also that which the you only see for a minute, you don't just see her for a minute because again, she has UC her in the form of the familiar? Yes, he her in as the glamour. So you see her more than you think you see her? That is true. That assure and some of those shots have say, like early on that horrific scene with her grinding the baby into goop yummy with a pestle revolting. It is all over self because I know from from my witchcraft law, that's how you get the gift a flight, which then she does that wonderful shot Holloway shot of a witch rising in front of the full moon would absolutely glorious. No, that that that that shot at the the fire is just, yes, amazing. Yeah, there's a few of those shots. Wow. That was just blend differs. But then you want to find out more about her. Oh, but the move is not about out, right? She's that that one of the woods is just kind of inciting incident. The moral of the story stay out of the woods kids? Well, overstay was civilization. Call call home every now and then just check in with other people. Don't talk to goats, don't completely isolate yourselves of. Don't barf up apples. It's all bad. Don't buy into the patriarchy on original. Don't buy into the goddamn patriarchy. Hello? That's the big more of the fucking really is had no add everyone not bought into the patriarchy, then none of this bullshit ever would have happened. Yeah, but they did. And so we have a great movie as a result out what you say. I love this movie. Maybe it's not a Harvey. I say it is. It is, but not. It's almost its own thing. Well, it is its own thing definitely, but it's not a true and it's not a traditional horror movie, but I think it is a horror movie. Yeah, I may not. If you're going by today's standards, we have to have jump scares. The door leftover for sequel and a cool villain that you could market and you have a cool billion. You can market musical teasers that don't tell you how to feel. Living because that's what I liked about this is like the move the music, and this was always off putting right, and it was always a consistent level of putting. So it was never like now everything's fine. Comfortable now black? No, it was always just that off key screeching underneath everything. Even scenes. We're nothing was happening rate. Any. It's not. It's not obvious about it. Yeah, there's a lot of set elite going on in this movie and I, I think it it benefits from more than one watch. I know I enjoy it. I enjoyed it so much the first time I saw, but I definitely enjoy it more and more each time I see it. If this was the third time I saw it at I said, I keep finding things about it that I like like I like the course it. I didn't notice the course that was also watching it knowing I was going to be talking about this which was supposed to be two women, but I'm going thick. Watched us like a woman. Tried to take a more feminine view of things out. Of course, it came off. Ha. Yeah, things like that. Yeah, I think it's great. I think it's cool. I mean, if if it's not for you, it's not for you. That's fine as well. But I understand where some people don't like this style of movie. I get that and I understand where some people might find the language a little off putting but give it a chance. I would say. Because really it's theirs start. Sorry, my cat is all of a sudden being crazy here. Never apologize for your cat or cat is being totally normal. Something wrong. You're right. I am. Sorry, it's it's just the. Yeah, I know it's not necessarily everybody's Cup of tea, but I think that it just floored me when I saw an IM db that it was rated a six point eight stars. I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? I get it. I point eight stars at so low that his love. I mean, comp- I mean, I know I love it. But I'm also I love this kind of movie, but still I, I'm just very surprised. Yes, I get it too. I mean, I love a challenge breaks. Unforgiving challenge right in the beginning. And I thought like particularly the people who saw in the theater. I get your frustration like I don't understand a word. Anybody was saying, I get that that's valid point, right as it was ballsy for them to do that. I'm glad they did it because it added a layer for me that I like, like you said, realism. Oh, absolutely. You. Sorry. Don't worry. It's sorry, you, you felt Thomson her this? Yeah, the blame getting put on her and you felt this kind of his going back to the hysteric the hysteria thing that just the religious fervor and this growing hysteria. You know, that surrounded for me, like I said, it makes me work her. I was working extra hard to keep up with it, but I enjoy that. I totally get that other people don't. So it's totally valid if you didn't like that, and you know what we're just better than them is what it is. We were clearly fear. Oh, no, I I will say sometimes I love something completely brainless in stupid that I can are arguing out to. Of course, I also love something that's gonna make me think a little bit at least a little bit. I'm this makes me think more than a little bit. Yeah, I appreciate that. I'll watch. And considering this was really a first time, Phil. I just I I, I'm stunned and I, I would love to see rubber Eggers do more. He's doing another Harmabee coming up next year call the lighthouse. Directing, I don't know much rain, but I'm looking forward to it. I am too. I am too. I'm curious to see. I mean, it's I'm still going to give him an even shot and not say, oh, it has. It's immediately going to be so outstanding because this one was right. The bar very high. He did out. Do you cave young Hollywood. Or. Make my own movie that will only time will tell. Right. I kind of hope he does little the ladder. Doesn't cave in. Yes. It's like, you know what? Because I think it is popular enough and has gotten good feedback and has enough of an audience. Yeah, that I think he can do that too, or at least a healthy compromise would be good as well. Yeah, if I hear find that good spice between the two. All right. Even as I think we have talked this well enough. Thank you for joining me. Thank you for helping out with the kids at new alternatives and thank you for having me. Of course. Oh, anytime my friend anytime. Oh, one more thing. Yes, happy. All right. So that's going to wrap up another episode of the countdown to Halloween vodka. Thon. Thank you to my guess Vanessa, make an-and rate from the VDI podcast clinic v. clinic podcast rather, and I'm terrible podcast because terrible house. I did not ask her where to find the show and I'll tell you where you can find it right now. It's WWW legion podcast dot com. Slash podcast slash v hyphen v. clinic. No, sorry, I can't even read the hyphen, Viti hyphen clinic. That is a metaphor, Vanessa, my goodness, gracious. And please if you haven't already, if you're enjoying what you're hearing, if you're in joying, having me bring you topnotch guests every single day detail about movies, good, bad, and everything. In between every damn single day. Then you head on over to fundraise dot new alternatives, NYC dot org, slash s q and make donations. Nation. If you gave a crap about LGBT homeless teenagers, I really hope you do at this point. Do the same thing fundraise dot, new alternatives, NYC dot org, slash s q and you know what I'm asking at this point. Twenty one episodes in twenty one days twenty one dollars. Minimum donation, please. Four day every day we meet our goal. We're a little behind right now, but that's okay. We're early on in the marathon. And as I learned last year, things tend to be a little slow at the beginning. Let's not let the kids down shall we? Let's not do that. Okay. So tomorrow what is going on tomorrow? It's going to be just me because it's a special episode of the pot Avante because it is geared specifically for my patriot subscribers. Yes, it is a patron choice. I gave them the opportunity to pick a movie and the movie that they picked is dead body which is currently streaming on Amazon prime, or I hope it's still is because I haven't watched it yet. So let's keep our fingers crossed there. I know nothing about it. This should be interesting to say the least so until next time. Beautiful, beautiful. Screamers continue to make the world of slightly less creepy place this Halloween and never ever forget the scream. Queens, golden rule will fight or flight survive the night, make it to the final real baby. Yea. Tonight's show otherwise classified has been written by same Hades. You can find all of his music at that. WWW dot Cam dot com. Jay. Aargh.
ScreamQueenz: Where Horror Gets GAY!
Aired 2 months ago 30:20
Ep. 46: Cmo llega el brcoli a su mesa?: El Dr. Ricardo Salvador explica el sistema alimentario
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