17 Burst results for "Red Bull Powertrains"
The Autosport Podcast
"red bull powertrains" Discussed on The Autosport Podcast
"Let me say I think from testing nicely in the middle of that sort of midfield pack. I've been still a curious one. I know granted it's only Friday practice after three day tests, but it's still very tricky to sort of place them. I know that in FB two, we had so they're just having a quick reminder. Ocon 11th and gasly 7th, which is probably closer to where they should be roughly, maybe the lower end of the top ten, just outside the points. But yeah, it didn't sing like they just haven't gone for a full performance lap, really. Even now, I wouldn't say they have put everything together and they are very much a team that are keeping it until qualifying tomorrow. Other than that, yeah, it's been solid, I would say, Williams are probably still back to where they were last year in terms of back of the field. But they could be fighting AlphaTauri by the looks of it in terms of that last place spot to avoid because they had a didn't have a they had in terms of mileage very good test, but in terms of yeah, pure performance wasn't anything to write home about. And very much the same, I think, would say after Friday practice in Bahrain. One of those stories coming out of the testing was AlphaTauri and a German report saying that there are other teams interested in buying them and of course the owners, the shareholders of what Dietrich mash is left behind. That's a decision that ultimately they'll make, but yeah, I'll be very weird to have one team Red Bull as double world champion Max Verstappen back at the front this year. And then AlphaTauri right at the back with Williams, that might hasten a decision, but I had done a huge amount of speculation going on there. The latest on that is because the team principals asked about that today in the press conference. And a whole lot of gave an interesting remark of sort of saying he was amused by these reports and they have sort of been dismissed so far in terms of the team isn't for sale. We're not looking to change anything and sort of has the full support of rebel backing. And social media being very, very funny is almost every time in recent formula in history, those sorts of denials have been made. It's instantly proven to be the opposite is true. Think back to Ricardo saying you see it today at McLaren. I forget some others, but that's the sort of the vibe, which is certainly not to say that Red Bull is looking to sell our towery or a deal is going to be done or anything like that. But it's very clear that, as you mentioned earlier, the performance levels of where AlphaTauri is meant to be or needed to be in terms of where Red Bull are looking for them to be, it is simply they're not meeting targets. And the argument of the young using it as the young driver program sort of the next step is largely not delivered for a number of years. Granted, they've let talent with the exception of Max Verstappen sort of move elsewhere or just hasn't worked out obviously Carlos Sainz, for example, he was a junior driver and now he's driving it Ferrari. So it's not to say there wasn't talent, but in he could say certainly in the last 5 to 6 years it hasn't produced any drivers of considerable talent, and that's why Perez is in the Red Bull, having been taken on from when he was at racing point and that's why devries has ended up there next to sonoda, who was obviously a Merck connected driver before that. So indeed, if it's not providing a useful training ground or indeed producing young drivers that will step up to the Red Bull senior team, let's call it. Or indeed, is matching the performance of what they need. It sort of then begs the question of what is its purpose, really, and I think that's probably where this is this conversation has begun. Now it's been denied. And unless anyone says anything differently, you take them at their word. But it's a curious one that I think will have to keep an eye out on, especially with factors like Andretti are looking for a spot on the grids, there's definitely other interest from other entities about joining Formula One and if there is going to be a team that potentially could be changing hands, let's say, AlphaTauri sort of is the one that makes perfect sense. If Red Bull sees a surplus to requirements. Absolutely. Even the likes of Honda, who we see the Ford agreement with Red Bull powertrains. There's carmakers that might want a full entry into Formula One. So we'll wait and see. But even though Formula One was back today properly properly at Bahrain not just testing, there were still other big stories going on. Now, as editor of auto sport dot com, can you fill us in on some of those other big stories that have been making the news today? Because there's some interesting stuff coming out of the paddock. Yes, and they all seem to link Red Bull. I know we just talked about Red Bull and AlphaTauri situation there. But continuing on that theme, Christian Horner, today sort of announced or confirmed that they exploratory talks have begun with McLaren and his counterpart at McLaren Zach Brown about Red Bull power trains potentially supplying engines to McLaren from 2026 in terms of that Red Bull powertrains forward collaboration that is on the way. They could look to customer teams and McLaren obviously is it currently a Mercedes customer and that could be a thing which would be a fascinating dynamic. I guess it wouldn't be too different from what McLaren is has got used to in its recent history, having had custom materials with Mercedes, but previously Renault and obviously the failed Honda partnership. So yeah, that's an intriguing one to keep an eye out for. Let's say I think you've probably said this time last year or maybe perhaps even sooner that you'd be very, very surprised to see it. But things have moved on considerably. And so why not? And the other bit of big news off away from the Friday practice is Mercedes has hired one of Red Bull's former senior figures as a special adviser, her name is Jane Paul and she previously held roles as a chief operating officer and a HR director at rebel and join Mercedes, which is obviously always slightly controversial. It's fair to say this isn't probably going to impact the performance of a technical side of the car, but this is more about the teen dynamics building the best and most efficient team. And as we all know, having a brilliant HR team is key to any organization as well as getting the people basically hiring the right people and making the right people happy at the job. So it's an interesting sort of left field. Driver market change or anything like that. But normally we talk about drivers moving or technical directors moving. Or even sponsors moving. But this is still a key move in between the two big teams of a very, very important figure and how a team is run our team is put together. These people make all the pieces work and fit together. So that's going to be another one to keep an eye out for. And we know it's something that total will think deeply about how to run an organization, how to create a culture, how to have a process where one day you won't be with the company. So who have you got coming up behind you that can be the new toto wolf, and so I think people were looking around at Mercedes and thinking, well, he's not going anywhere yet, but who are the senior figures, the big executives at Mercedes and certainly she's a massive name to come over from Red Bull. It won't be able to say, well, you want another quarter turn on your front wing to go a bit quicker, but she will be able to advise on the things that Red Bull have been doing very well. And also, part of Formula One that I'm super interested in is dynasties and how they fail. And if you look at the teams that have dominated in the past and whether that is teams that are still up the front, like Ferrari or former teams like Williams, who find themselves at the back these days, McLaren, of course, that are struggling now. And Red Bull is a team that absolutely dominated and yet went through that Mercedes era of domination and could come back strong so many teams can't come back. And so she will have been there through that time as Christian Horner's right hand woman. And brings a huge amount of experience to Mercedes, so I'm not sure what my point was, but rambling really. I mean, we're at our time now done our 20 minutes. So hey, and thank you so much for joining me. Looking forward to this weekend.
The Autosport Podcast
"red bull powertrains" Discussed on The Autosport Podcast
"First one McLaren lowest of the lap runs today, less than a hundred laps, 81 laps, I think. They were constantly stopping to strengthen the front wheel, whatever you want to call them. And so they were always having to stop and strengthen them, which will be fixed for next weekend. They know what the problem is, but again, it's a bit like last year, not a serious with the brake problems that they just couldn't get all those laps done today. And I mentioned on the YouTube video about McLaren to Matt Q I did the video with for our YouTube channel last night. And he said he felt that Zac brown's like the way he's carrying himself even. He tried to not read too much into it, but he just didn't seem very happy. They got some work to do at McLaren. Yeah, they've got a lot of work to do and not just with the gaffer tape and the glue gun on the winglets. How best to describe this exchange I had with the aforementioned photographer on the roof of the drag control tower. I said something along the lines of I think something must have been said at dinner because the front end and the back end of that McLaren are not speaking to one another. You watch that car attempt to negotiate a corner like the turn 8 9 ten section here in Bahrain. And it's just shockingly poor. If Oscar piastre, who's driving the car at the time, had sent a postcard to the apex of turn ten, it would have taken a week to arrive. He was that far away from it that the car is just dreadful. I'm paid by the word. So I engaged in flowery language and photographer used just one word to describe. The current McLaren, which is one that I will not relate on this podcast because people's children might have walked into the kitchen while they're listening to this on their smart speaker. Wow, holy moly. And finally, I'm a good luck. Good luck to McLaren. Final bit of chat today on AlphaTauri. Report coming out from Germany from auto motor and sports about a possible change to AlphaTauri, we mentioned this when Dietrich mateschitz sadly passed away last year. I said, at the time, the first thing you have to say is both teams secure on the grid, but it felt too early. If I disrespectful at the time, the chap had just passed away and we're talking about, oh, is AlphaTauri. And it just felt too soon, too disrespectful. But now a report coming out from Germany suggesting that the team could either either be moved to the UK, which would make sense, Red Bull powertrains, Milton Keynes, and or perhaps sold. Honda would like to get in Andretti would like to get in. Has the team responded yet, according to anything you know? Have they said anything according to these rumors? No, my colleague Oleg karpov scurried down to AlphaTauri to try and intercept Franz task, but he was going into the Red Bull hospitality family enough. So who knows what they might be might have been discussing. So at the time of speaking, no official line and no denial has been issued. It's whether to take this with a pinch of salt or not. Auto motor and sport stories can be quite well sourced. And generally, generally, they don't print absolute nonsense. They don't just cut and paste stuff that they've read on Reddit or various other forums. But not everything that they prognosticate as nail on truth turns out to be right. So it'll be interesting. It could be a kite flying exercise, but there is an element of plausibility to it, because as you said, Dietrich matter shits. The visionary behind Red Bull no longer with us. His responsibilities have been hived off to various people as was his wish in his will that various people, it was managed in a different structure. In a more corporate way. And of course, with regime change, eventually the wishes of the previous leader are gradually unpicked, no matter how publicly respectful they are of such a person's memory or whatever, when the new sheriffs in town, they run things differently. And matter shits was passionate about sport and about motor racing and he bought two Formula One teams. So it's not difficult to see that someone who's perhaps less enthusiastic about motor racing than he would think, why do we need two, especially when the so called junior team has got a 28 year old who's for which Formula One is not his first rodeo as the lead driver. We'll wait and see on that one, but thank you. Thank you, carters. Thank you so much for the last three days. We've loved it on the podcast. And now the countdown is on to the start of the season. Hey, by the way, GP racing magazine. How does it fall in terms of because obviously you're a monthly magazine. So it sort of sometimes it's convenient. Sometimes it's not in terms of what you can put on the front cover, but when can we look out for a new edition of that on the shelves? It is on the shelves now, it came out yesterday, but yes, you are correct. This compressed launch and test and race season is very, very bad for the gray hair quotient of a magazine.
The Autosport Podcast
"red bull powertrains" Discussed on The Autosport Podcast
"They're also going to look at battery cell technologies, software systems. So there's a lot of Red Bull assistance can be given going forwards and as well as marketing and a big name back in Formula One. Manufacturers are always quite popular in front of Matt. It's good news for Formula One, isn't it? Yeah, massive news. It's such a turnaround that one is four to almost laughed out of F one after that last participation in a Jaguar guys. And not only is it forward, but it's actual forward if you like, because last time it was through the front of Jaguar. So trying to market to Americans like British saloons and lots of wood and lots of leather, whereas proper Ford and it's funny like I know it's just like time doing. But I remember at the Goodwood festival of speed a few years ago speaking to from people from Volkswagen said, we want to market our cars and we're going to do it through lifestyle and people being on the beach and a skate park and on a BMX because that's how we're going to advertise it now as a lifestyle brand. So to actually have motor sport and the win on Sunday sell on Monday adage being back at the forefront, yesterday Netflix also just sustainability drive and as a marketing platform and we've just had Jim Farley, the CEO and president of Ford saying, this is how we're marketing ourselves to a younger new generation. It's through going around in circles and winning and dynamic mode sport. You know, okay, it keeps us in a job. That's so good to hear as a validation of F one and sort of such a turnaround and where it was and obviously timing of the announcement we've just had the FIA talk about the new engine manufacturers confirmed for 2026. So nearly on Audi, and although the time is running out, the fact that Porsche and Honda are floating around and Ford coming on is where Formula One is really, really good shape at a minute. And that's very, very pleasing. Now for readers of auto sport and mobile dot com, you wrote a nice piece this morning about the Red Bull four deal, why Ford gave them up Porsche couldn't obviously those talks collapsed last summer. What is your conclusion from it? What does Red Bull get out of this four deal that it wasn't getting from Porsche? Without being too facetious, money and not much else. But that's exactly what they want. So there will be like, you know, it's called a strategic and technical partnership on Red Bull powertrain specifically. So you can look at that Porsche wanted to buy half the race stream, so Red Bull advanced technologies. And that would have meant certain things. Obviously, if you look at like the 9 one 9 hybrid project, yes, that was Porsche ran by Andrea Seidel, but if you speak to the people involved, they're like, it was our skunk works car with a couple of Porsche stickers on it. And so everyone could reap the success from that. And that's not what Porsche were coming to the table with this time. They wanted to be very heavily involved. So for your Christian hoarder, you've got to have your Stuttgart counterpart and whether that means you've got your helmet marker, you've got to have you get one card apart or someone to just cancel out what Helmut Marco says because, you know, sometimes that can be outrageous or a bit not as corporate as Porsche would like it. In principle, those wants are fine. But when Red Bull was at that point in time, you know, running away with both championships and such a successful formula that has worked so well it's the only team Mercedes to win in Formula One. In the past decade, it was totally reasonable Red Bull to go, we don't want to disrupt that. So thanks, but no thanks to Porsche. Ford, you know, they'll get their logos and I'm sure you can expect what's the current car that a Ford puma Red Bull envy 2025 edition, something like that. So they'll get the marketing from that, but they'll be less fair, they won't be too interventionist with Red Bull powertrains, which we know is already the engine on the dyno. So if they're going to have the money and investment which, you know, let's not beat around the bush. It's Red Bull cofounder Dietrich Massachusetts died. They need to secure a long-term future, which wasn't necessarily in doubt without the Ford ownership, but it certainly secures it. So you've got that coming in, but it's hands off, you know, Jim Farley is not going to be micromanaging. This will not be a repeat of the Toyota flop where you've got the operation in the UK but then Japan trying to manage it remotely and that massive clash of cultures. But Ford does have vast debts of research, money, some expertise in electric powertrains, whether that's from the road cars or from the world rally championship with the puma. So whether that is applicable, they will have an input, but Red Bull be allowed to do their own business. And not be bankrolled fully, but having that investment is showed up finances and in turn selling Daniel Ricciardo to do a show running in Michigan to support for it. That's a really nice partnership and works well for both parties. And like I said in my piece, you know, it's not that Porsche's attitude to F one was wrong by any means. But Porsche's attitude to working with Red Bull, that wasn't going to work, which
The Autosport Podcast
"red bull powertrains" Discussed on The Autosport Podcast
"That was the same thing. That was the same day Mercedes launched their car, and they did a shakedown in that storm, and they were like, yeah, it's porpoising. That's unexpected, but also we don't know how bad it is because these are some horrendous conditions we're having. But also as part of that launch, the Lewis Hamilton basically came out swinging. He was just like fired up after Abu Dhabi 2021. And he said, I don't think we should ever forget these words. He said, if you thought I was good last year, wait until what you're going to see this year. And yet, when the car, that the definitive car they were going to race was revealed in Bahrain, it chopped that momentum totally out for me. He knew immediately right. I basically can't win this championship. We're so far off the pace. The car is handling so badly. We've got to do so much work just to get him happy in the car. Mercedes is openly saying now, Russell was happier with the basic package because he'd come from Williams where it was all over the base and off the pace and making do. He knew how to handle that because that's all he was used to, whereas Hamilton, it was something like, oh, I've got to adjust to this thing that's not I'm not happy with it. It doesn't feel good when I drive it. I think there was a video recently where he drove the 21 car. Was it somewhere in America? Was it running on time? Yeah. And he was just like, this car is just like, it's perfect. You couldn't ask for a better car. So he took a little while to adjust to that. But he just meant we never got to see the best Hamilton that we don't get wrong. He was so incredible this season. Like some of his drives, Paul Ricard, absolutely amazing. Obviously, Mexico very good Austin, all of that. As well, that was your honor. That's that. I think that is Hamilton's lost win. I think without the safety car there, he probably could have beaten the slap and I think if you look at the pace he had on that one stop us. So difficult season for him and it's just a shame we never got to see what a really fired up Hamilton could have done. But I still think it's there. I think that if they're back on the pace next season, I think we get a 2021 rematch and that's what I really want to happen. Sir and it back to the start of the podcast, you said you know what it's like when you're really in a zone working on drive ratings or whatever, say, look back on some of our scores at Hamilton, Saudi Arabia when he was didn't get out of the Q one and think, oh, that's harsh and he was in a real rut then, but no, it's actually as Alex says, as soon as he got in that car, I was like, right, not getting the 8th world title. So I think Mercedes have actually the views that we were giving him dangerous setups because he's got this vast amount of experience. We need to troubleshoot this car. That means running as high as it will go and then slamming it into the ground. So what can do? And they were writing off entire Sessions entire Grand Prix weekends trying to troubleshoot it. And yeah, they say they gave him dangerous settings, but that's what we weren't probably appreciating at the time. So I've got because there's that narrative, I think people were misquoting Jackie Stewart saying, oh, Hamilton has to retire. Look at him. He's lost his edge all of that. Whereas that was a nonsense narrative. It was just, he was making it for the sacrifice he was being team player using that experience. He's talked about because I've been at that team for so long. I can tell shoveling, yeah, mate, this isn't good enough. You sort this out, whatever, whereas Russell is going to come in and obviously although he's been in engineering debriefs for some years now, he's going to be a little bit more timid in that respect. So I think what you said earlier is so easy to be in the zone. You take a step back and it's actually something we've argued for our annual top 50 drivers of the year award. I know that some people who maybe care less about F one have looked at that and go, well, look at a difference in championship and a point. Damn, I don't want to give away. If it was, where's one driver and where's the other? But I think that's something to appreciate now. Arguments within the Mercedes camp. They happened. Hamilton, if you read these words, he says, I can argue with shove because I've known him so long. And I put that to shove in an interview we did, and they see smiled as if how am I going to am I going to talk around this without revealing the word, of course they were internal upsets. Of course, they were everyone was at that team was devastated that it was suddenly off the pace, but they fixed it. They didn't turn it into a winner, but they didn't get drawn into constant infighting, and that was their whole season. Oh, season damned. They made a recovery. And that's how you get better. And again, it comes back to culture and toto's got it's a German phrase, I don't know, I don't speak any German, so I don't know what it is. But it translates as you put the finger in the wound and sort of twist it. If something's bleeding, see something's painful. But that's how you get better. That's how you sort of see where things are. Where's the damage? Where are you weak? And that is the only way you sort of learn and improve. And I think that, again, it speaks to the strength of Mercedes culture as a team. We've spoken about that on numerous podcasts and articles and everything over the years. And I think we saw that in full swing this year that they said, right, we're in a real we're in a real pickle here at the beginning of the season. Let's dig our way out of this fight our way through. And they did that Alex thank you some of that up perfectly. It was methodical the way they got through the bios instead of right this package will make the car quicker and it did and it won a race. And I think they deserve a lot of credit for that. And it's exciting for next year that yeah, if that momentum can continue, if they can say, right, we know where we got the W 13 so wrong, we can fix that for the W 14 next year. A 2021 rematch, that would be really cool. Well, if I can put the metaphorical finger in Ferraris, we're in and twist it some more. It's like you look at that all the things that won the 8 constructors titles are still there and we'll talked about how we study the fall of the Manchester United dynasty because he wants to know that his squad will bounce back over a winter over two seasons and this isn't the start of Renault and stone malaise or whatever a fall of one of the great super teams like Williams or McLaren. And those ingredients are all there. This is not the newly leaving shoveling still there. Total wolves were having, you haven't lost one of your one of your key drivers. So again, that's stability. You look at Christian Horner now who's been the only team principal in Red Bull Racing history and then again you look at what maranello are doing and it's completely different and completely out of step to the only teams that have won titles since 2010. 2005. Day one. We haven't talked about engines almost at all. This year, but the Honda, sorry, Red Bull. Red Bull powertrains. Have hired aggressively from other teams. It doesn't, there was a summer break Sky Sports special where Ted went to go visit Christian in his garden. Vast gardens of Horner mansions. And he talked a lot about Red Bull powertrains. And I'm not sure Horner really wanted to go down that sort of shifting from cheek to cheek. And he asked all the questions, but it doesn't seem a thing that they really want to put front and center. But that seems to me like it's been a big success of Red Bull, Honda, that relationship, McLaren couldn't make it work with the culture differences of Japan and the UK. Again, being very respectful to Japanese culture. I think McLaren got it wrong in terms of when they, when it really hit the fan, those two teams didn't work well to solve the problems together. And the drivers that McLaren had at the time as well.
The Autosport Podcast
"red bull powertrains" Discussed on The Autosport Podcast
"Depending on whether you're a Red Bull fan or not a Red Bull van, will or even a neutral will depend how you feel about the punishment, but as this was for overspending in 2021. And there's been that famous clip going round of Ross Braun, although he works for Formula One, he doesn't work for the FIA, the governing body. There is that famous clip going around from a couple of years ago where he says, look, make their bones about it or let's be clear, if you breach it, you lose your championship. Will any punishment be retroactively applied to the Red Bull cars, which were racing illegally, you know, inverted commas. I'm not saying they didn't pass scrutiny. They were absolutely legal cars that passed every possible test at the races, but will there be a retroactive punishment as part of this? No, it was in the scale and of the options of penalties. They could have gone full disqualification from the championship, which was obviously the most extreme to points deductions to heavier fines. And other areas within that. But this is what they've settled upon of a monetary fine and a sporting penalty that will be applied for the future rather than reactively. So no, no, the results of the 2021 championship will remain unchanged. The timeline of this is that the FIA was actually the timeline is Red Bull announced a press conference in the morning Mexico time. So we knew we knew it was coming, or at least at the timeline that I understood. Then the FIA published their document, we're recording this shortly after the Red Bull. Press conference has happened. And it's before FP one when we were recording this hence why we're not talking about any of the on track action. But it turns out it wasn't just one or two things we'd heard rumors, mainly coming out of Dutch media, some of our Dutch colleagues, but also sort of Dutch social media and you kind of wonder, you know, a sort of, you know, people in this whole situation using the sort of more friendly side of the Dutch media to sort of get a little bit of defense out there in advance, these kind of things happen in the media and it's sort of more politics really than sport, but it's fascinating how this has become very political. And weeks ago they were saying, well look, it's just a catering issue. Don't worry about it. The cars weren't any faster. Well, it turns out there weren't just one or two issues. There was actually 13. Do you want to run us through them or even the main ones? I can do. And yeah, starting with the one that at least in a lighthearted sense, and I know this is a very serious topic made me smile was the catering is as part of the breach. In terms of they overspent within that bracket of the team, obviously, like you say, the main focus of what the spending would be or will be on the car and the team personnel and equipment, but catering hospitality is within that. We do know that rebel like to go big with their catering hospitality. That's what they're about. And full player to fair play too, and that is sales it's marketing at the end of the day. That was part of it. We've also into the sort of the very detail, which is nice that I've sort of credit the FIA and ripple for releasing this. And they did say before it came out that they would be transparent and the reasons behind how these breaches have come about have come out and they haven't, of course. And breaking them down, it was employers, social security contributions, payments, things like that. Cost of reporting in financial senses, bonuses, things a lot to do with your balance sheets, your taxes, your things that you don't think of and this is where horn is defense of it's not related to car performance, but things that all build up any business, not only a Formula One team. And that makes sense because you could put somebody on a 20 grand a year basic, but on a 120 grand a year bonus, and Red Bull didn't include the bonuses for winning the championship. In there, I remember talking to a Red Bull mechanic during the Vettel Weber era, probably after that, I don't know, the third or fourth world championship. Because the team, everyone in the team, whether it's, I think, I think the way Red Bull did it, they're very inclusive organization. I think everyone literally from the overnight cleaners to Christian Horner is on a wind bonus if you win the championship, the teams, the constructors. And one of the engineers was signed like, yeah, bought me a new kitchen this year. So like, and that's probably like, I don't know, 15, 20 grand. I know what you spend on a kitchen. I don't know. But and that was many years ago. Obviously, so the bonuses can be significant and they weren't included in Red Bull's numbers. Anyway, sorry, Carrie. That's right, yeah, yeah. You are spot on there. And then sort of breaking it down further away from those sorts of financial costs. It was covering costs of power units. Now obviously with the Red Bull powertrains, wasn't an official thing last year. It was still a Honda engine as they were on their way out. That's quite interesting and curious to see how that's gone wrong as it were. In terms of reporting that hasn't been strictly up to measure because obviously with Honda, we know from the McLaren days, one of the things about that deal where McLaren Joseph is the Honda power unit was effectively free. Someone pays for it. And the last I heard that deal had been carried over to Red Bull as in that's what Honda bring Honda bring the power unit, there wasn't a check being written as such from Red Bull to Honda every year and so there's some confusion around getting something for again in inverted commas free. Carry on. No, it's fine. And within that we're talking about the Red Bull powertrains, it was a cost involved in setting up that facility, not the full scale of it, but yeah, of course that would have impacted the 2021 season. So as we've said, we have covered it and then travel costs, maintenance, things like that. It really does go quite in almost every area. From engines to sandwiches. It's wide scale. And it has, if we sort of sum up the total Red Bull cost of exceeding it, exceeded the cost cap by 1.864 million pounds, which in percentage terms of the total cost cap was one point 6% overspend. So it was in that when the minor overspend was spoken about, that was going to be anything from zero to 5%. Or was it 0.1% to 5%? What was also interesting in the report that was released was rebel got also got their attacks and sums a little bit wrong or form filling as well. I mean, trust me, I'm used to these sorts of things. I don't really feel. Don't really blame them, but their notional tax credit was incorrectly applied. And so if it was correctly applied, the overspend would have been and I will quote the number exactly 432,652 pounds of the budget overspend, which are quite equates to just 0.3 7% budget over the spinner. It still would have been a classified as a minor overspend, and I assume the penalties may have been less, but this took penalty still would have applied. So even if they'd got the admin side correct, they still would have overspent, but by 430,000 pounds rather than what nearly 1.9 million pounds. That's the bit that I've read that sentence so many times I've seen some of the best F one commentators. Some of them have become overnight accountants by the sea. I don't know where they don't like to admit that they can't explain this to their tens of thousands of Twitter followers. I've read that and I honestly, I don't understand it. It's to do with tax credits. I don't really understand it yet, but Christian Horner has said in terms of this, it is very complicated.
The Autosport Podcast
"red bull powertrains" Discussed on The Autosport Podcast
"Many cooks, so and conflicts of interest or whatever. Actually, again, I say this, you know, the heavy heart following a debt of teachers masters, but I say, I think Alfred tauri now is probably the prime prospect. I think there certainly was speculation that although he wasn't that wasn't actively in a shop window, sort of you can make backdoor deals and discuss a price, but I can see that, you know, let's say some money has been set aside to keep Red Bull going and with the power trains and how they might sell that to other teams, how that becomes self sustaining. I think at the junior team, that is maybe a bit more of a drag, but it's an established decent race team. So I think that's where you would go in with Porsche, but then what do they get? Because we understand that they want to come in as a basically to write a big old check for a Red Bull powertrain that was. So then they have to be a lot more active, which again, I don't think suits them. We know that Audi, they're engine F one program, how are they going to get so far aligned is they're going to pick up this poor shelved test meal from a few years ago. So Porsche don't even have their own engine concept to work with. So then it gets very complicated. So any deal with getting Hass up to the budget cap or whatever just seems a bit far fetched. So perhaps it might be the inverse of whatever we're expecting is that it could end up with a point where let's say it's hypothetically Williams with an Audi engine, but it will say Porsche on it. And so not to be really pessimistic about it all, but I think it could end up being a damp squid where you look at the glory years of Porsche in F one. You think of McLaren in the mid 80s. Well, that was actually a tag privately funded thing with poor script on it. And I think we could get somewhere similar where it's Porsche in name only and with a great big check behind it. Yeah, it's really interesting to see what happens in the automotive world in terms of VW group have their MEB platform which they're new. Electric cars are built on like the ID cars from Volkswagen, the any axe from Skoda, the E trons from Audi, and it's all the same platform, and they put on their badge and their own software, but it's still a shared cost and Honda have gone to GM in America to make their things like the acuras and the hondas and GM are using there. So it is more than a re badging. I'm not being I'm not doing it down, but it's the way that automotive with electrification is going. And it always seemed so crazy that at that time, two separate programs for Porsche and Audi, but anyway, let's leave there.
The Autosport Podcast
"red bull powertrains" Discussed on The Autosport Podcast
"Perhaps you'd expect a driver being paid handsomely to defend their team to the hills, but you know, if you look at McLaren three, four years ago, you say, well, the reason they can't win is because a wind tunnel is an up to spec. So that's why they're getting their brand new shyly one online for 2024. But we know that him will facility at Sauber is amazing, all those LMP1 cars at a designer and then go on to blitz circuit Della Sartre and all of that, it's a cracked facility, but they're not, yeah, and as you mentioned they're not operating at the cost cap. So some of that means they're slow with parts so they can design something pretty mega but then can't construct it, can't get it on both cars. But also if you're not operating at cost cap, you know, this is why the arguments for breaking the cost cap with the allegations at Red Bull are so strong because there is performance to be gained there. So if you think Alfred have taken it or sailboats, we should probably start referring to taking that decent step forward. They're now midfield contenders, which is no mean feat, considering that car would not do two or three laps without going bang in pre season testing, but now a bona FIDE midfield contender with some more investment with the more loving playing field of the cost cap. So again, if they keep on investing, they would expect them to start to begin to catch up. So if I could use a poor analogy, I'm an Aston Villa fan Martin and we've just signed a new manager in Unai Emery, and it's not about going and winning the Premier League in the next three seasons. It's about being the best of the rest, which I think is the next target for that Sauber operation that we did sign of the chassis. And then it's about what they can do when they're running well. They probably the Audi side is probably been through a couple of team leaders to find the right one and then you start investing together to build incremental gains with the engine and whatever. And then in their words, take on or be the best German manufacturer in what was that awful they did something like the rings of the new stars or something which basically means move over Mercedes. And I think when they probably put that out what they're anticipating is beating Mercedes at the top rather than thinking Mercedes have regressed to where they are now. Okay, look, let's take a quick break and when we come back we'll talk about how it might work from a team versus engine perspective, many teams do split those two bases and successfully in some cases and will have a look to what they could be doing over the next three years to ensure that they have the best drivers from 2026 to take on that three year plan of getting to the front of the grid. Those are stories are on the way. Okay, let's talk a little bit about Matt, your opinion on how it might work. Audi have their obviously their base in Germany, their motor sport base. But as you've mentioned already, actually, the henville facility, the wind tunnel there, which has been around a long time now, but I gather has been updated and is still used very much as a source of revenue. As a business line to rent out. And it's still very if not cutting edge is still very, very good. One of the best in the world. Many teams do split. So the world champions, Honda and Red Bull, Red Bull powertrains based here in the UK and Milton Keynes. And then some of the, I think the stuff that Honda are very, very good at. They would say the combustion engine side is still done in Japan. Also split, Renault, Alpine. If you like France and perhaps less successfully, you could say lots of teams split engine and team and some have it all under one roof. I know the Christian Horner recently has been using that phrase that Red Bull power trains and Red Bull is able to build a car and an engine under one roof. I think it was an interview with Fred. A Ted sorry when he went to his house over the break and he was talking a lot about Red Bull powertrains. It was interesting that he was making that and sort of before the re loving with Honda. I guess, but what's your opinion on how it could shake out? Because it's not like Audi are going to buy their way into Sauber. Close down their base, which is not the biggest, but nothing to be ashamed of and move it all to Germany. So they're going to have to split it, not a million miles apart physically. How do you think it's going to shake out? Well, the one Barrett that would be the enormous cost and two if in rising does retain this small percentage. He'll say that that doesn't happen. But I think it's an interesting discussion, isn't it? Because then where do you draw the line? So, you know, like you talk about Red Bull being based in the UK and Honda in Japan. But what about Mercedes with the engine being done at brixworth and end up being an hour's drive to the chassis in brackley? What about even Red Bull when they go with their Red Bull powertrains online? Well, they're still separated by a factory rule in Adrian newey. It might be masterminding the design of the car, but he's not over same engine. Look at auto sport, we have the distinct magazine and the website. Has that necessarily changed from when we always used to be in the office together to now us communicating on Zoom and Microsoft Teams and other online software since pandemic not necessarily. So I don't really buy that as a barrier. I can see why it might be a handy excuse or whatever, you know, you think of maybe a better way to look at it rather than sort of the physical locations getting bogged down and that is the philosophy to use a really grandiose term. The concept that the approach, but that's why the McLaren Honda partnerships fell apart so much because one was had Mercedes sorry, because McLaren had designed this what it thought was a class leading better than anyway. I was size zero Coke bottle shaped package. The Honda engine barely could fit in. And so because it was basically crowbar in there, it was getting too hot and kept going bang all the time. So you can add these two class leading organizations, but unless they integrate well, it's not going to happen. So that's when you would say Sauber is still Sauber engineer is and there will still have this minority ownership and stuff. But effectively, if they're all using Audi headed letter paper, you'd expect them to run with the same approach and therefore they can integrate well and be harmonious. So I don't see it being a major issue. And in terms of Audi, bigwigs or the marketing department with the ideally wanting all in Germany, yeah, I get that, but does it really matter? I mean, it is the same way so I was speaking to someone and I'm sure people can take an educated potshot who it was, but someone very high up in the Porsche 9 one 9 program. I said, well,
The Autosport Podcast
"red bull powertrains" Discussed on The Autosport Podcast
"Or how close to it at the Ferrari was to sort of create that difference. But yeah, it took us a while, I think, to get to grips with that change in philosophy because we would have just seen Red Bull as the air team. But then you look at it, you looked at the early data traces, and you saw that the lighter Ferrari combined with its engine had a real punch at the slow speed corners, but in a straight line, after the breathless Renault engine or the Honda that used to go pop in the back of the McLaren all the time, its top speeds were up there. So it came to the forest posing those early circuits with Bahrain down the back straight with those DRS duals where we saw that the new rules designed to make overtaking better. Well, they were sort of working, but the tone, a slipstream wasn't quite as strong, unless you had Honda engine that could sort of offset that difference. And if you're also a member at the time, the turbo hybrid benchmark Mercedes, they were all down at the bottom of the speed trap. So although the new rules were designed to bring more midfield runners, better chance of winning and destabilizing that top three, that didn't really work, but within the top three it destabilized how they went quick if that makes sense. Yeah, perfect sense. Well, at the beginning of the season, we were starting to question the reliability of Red Bull powertrains. Let's get on to moment number two of yours. Verstappen gets payback in the DRS duel with leclerc. Talk us through this. I thought we were in for a really vintage season when things got going in Bahrain because if you remember max and Charles Leclerc right up the front but not to be too harsh on Max Verstappen, but he was totally outsmarted at witted by look like that day because leclerc in the battle for the victory, he was deliberately falling behind and giving up track position to get DRS and straight back past and I think they did that three times in Bahrain and a Ferrari was ahead anyway before the fuel pressure failure in the Red Bull. Then we get to Saudi Arabia, the long straights and sweeping fast corners. That is suiting the Honda engine better, but it's leclerc that is looking stronger. And I think I think if I'm remembering correctly, there were two cases where he does it again to Verstappen. He gets back past. Verstappen at this point inside what a full race and let's say two thirds of a race after to sit behind a fry, watch where leclerc is placed in his car through these DRS zones and how he's consuming these rear Pirelli. So having come off definitely second best and like I say looking a bit intellectually done over if you like buy leclerc, he then does the same to it's really aggressive on the brakes into the DRS activation or detection zone in Saudi Arabia locks up the front, but it's fine because the Ferrari goes slightly ahead, which means Verstappen can press that button. The rear wing flap snaps open and he pulls by in a straight line. So that ability to learn. I think you can also caveat that with that was two races of sustained side by side action and this was a Verstappen that was much cleaner and wheel to wheel action than he had been the season before. So a slight change in approach there a wit in the car if you like to get the better on leclerc. And that was his first win of the season. Yeah, I completely agree on max's ability to learn and something that I don't think has necessarily been noted this year. Right, number three. Your third big moment of the season Ferrari engines expire as Verstappen stunts Perez's fine season start. Absolutely, it was a season of not only how well Red Bull and Max Verstappen did, but how much Ferrari in Charles Leclerc dropped the ball, obviously more on the team side. So they just relate specifically to Spain and Azerbaijan. So if you remember, after Australia, lookalike could absolutely dominate dominated that race and Verstappen had again retired with his fuel system failure. And he said something, obviously it was hyperbole, but he said something along the lines of like, I need 46 race weekends now to catch up to leclerc who's so far ahead. And then Spain, again, this change of form that we've seen where tighter, track, the Ferrari was the better one, unlike, you know, that was Red Bull territory before. And so leclerc is just disappearing into the distance. He has that race completely under control. And then the Ferrari engine, it might be quick out the corners, but obviously it was under too much stress and went bang basically and leclerc pulled over retired from that race and bearing in mind this was a race where Verstappen made one of three, maybe four notable mistakes this season wearing Augusta windy spun the Red Bull, but still came through to win, so there is that offset, but actually it looked like Red Bull could fight back in Baku, which again, by this season's guide, would been a Red Bull track because of the massively long straits. Leclerc is leading well, I think he's 13 seconds ahead and there is an opposite on pit stop strategy. So it's not a guaranteed win like it would have been in Spain. But he's doing well and he's putting them fastest laps. He's lost his wingman, Carlos Sainz, so there's a question mark over the Ferrari reliability and also he no longer has a rear buffer because the two Red Bulls are working well together. And then a massive cloud of smoke and the engine goes again.
The Autosport Podcast
"red bull powertrains" Discussed on The Autosport Podcast
"The auto sport podcast. As we've gone through the cut and thrust of the Formula One season, particularly talking about max's battles with Charles Leclerc week in week out most weeks it seems with the current calendar, I don't think the sheer scale of his dominance has yet to be appreciated. After all he won 12 Grand Prix this year and the sprints in Italy and Austria. We've only had 18 race meetings and didn't even score any points. In two of the first three, Bahrain and Australia. So it has been a dominant run to the championship. What were the key moments? Was it a season that max won or that Ferrari lost? And what does it mean for the future of the sport? Let's get up to speed with autosports, Matt's Q Matt. Welcome back to the podcast, good to have you back on. Feeling fresh and ready to sort of recap a good season. The whole crux of the report I did about events in Japan was hang on guys, that was a mega drive to see what the title don't let their lap counter and rain delays and safety car crane controversy, disguise out. It was a mega drive. So yep, let's throw some praise over a really incredible season from Verstappen and let's get into your list then you wrote for auto sport plus the top ten moments. You think shaped this season. Number one the very slippery RB 18 breaks cover as Verstappen begins his title defense. Where do we begin? With launch season and I remember very personal I don't, but I had to train to catch out a Newcastle station and I was sat in a cafe opposite with a coffee watching Christian Horner, you know, doing the talk of ready to launch this car and we're getting a proper view of what just massive technical shake at what the cars were going to look like. And I pulled it off and it was just like the spec model that been sent around in new coat of paint. Red Bull at the aero kings thanks to Adrian newey, that technical team. So basically whatever they were going to do was going to be mega were as sure of that, but we didn't see anything until we until we got to Barcelona and then compared to sort of the Mercedes at that point, which looked quite conventional, had the bigger side pods if you remember, the other teams that had the Aston looked quite bulky. Then we had this Red Bull brake cover that had like almost a bookshelf underneath its side pods because it was such a radical cutout and just sort of seeing how it looked and then it ran fairly well in testing obviously it's never a real gauge. It just looked different and it looks strong. There was mileage. No noise about our we're going to romp to the spoilers quite so dominantly this season, but just a quiet confidence from the team and also around that time I remember a few of us. We went and reread a bit of Adrian newey's autobiography and he was talking about how we studied ground effects specifically at universities that are the sage of F one aero over the last 25 years. He's going to be he's going to be mega at this chapter as well. And so it turned out to be coming into this era. I think something that doesn't get talked about because Red Bull don't talk about it too much. I wonder if that's for a certain reason was Honda's pulling out of the sport in inverted commas. They didn't disappear overnight. Red Bull power trains doing their best to take the best and brightest brains from all of their competitors, which of course weakens your competitors and makes you stronger. Allied with a change of philosophy, which we saw over the years, Red Bull has always been high down force, high rank, not necessarily the best power unit in the back with the Renault, but they'd qualify on pole because of all the down force and scamper off into the distance and control a race through the twisty bits. And this year, we've seen no one can compete with that power unit in a straight line. And so just a word on what we saw in testing in terms of this was the first year really of Red Bull powertrains, parentheses, Honda. Yeah, I mean, it wouldn't have been a very good archeological dig. If you had got your toothbrush and just sort of scraped away at the Red Bull badge, you would have seen a Honda one. That Honda engine not even redone it was just sort of taking out their box from Japan and putting a Red Bull, but actually you make a good point Martin and I'm trying to think of what the best example is of the season, really, maybe somewhere like Hungary where, particularly in the VA era or right up until 2017, that was a Red Bull track, because I just whacked it down force as high as they could go. It didn't matter that the Renault engine wasn't as powerful as some Merck. They just went round with a down force and nailed it. Whereas it's been sort of the inverse, I suppose this season, isn't it? That's been Ferrari territory because it has had the lighter car. We didn't quite know at the time how overweight the Red Bull was 20 kilos. We suspect or how close to it at the Ferrari was to sort of create that difference. But yeah, it took us a while, I think, to get to grips with that change in philosophy because we would have just seen Red Bull as the air team. But then you look at it, you looked at the early data traces, and you saw that the lighter Ferrari combined with its engine had a real punch at the slow speed corners, but
The Autosport Podcast
"red bull powertrains" Discussed on The Autosport Podcast
"What's really happened here? A week ago, we saw this statement from Red Bull and Honda, about a week ago saying that they're going to extend their technical support program beyond the end of the kind of Honda support, which was 2023. Honda racing corporation will support Red Bull, almost like a consultant to Red Bull powertrains until 2025 and then we get into the new engine regulations, but today it was the Porsche press release that was the one that announced it, equally Helmut Marko, outspoken over the last week or so on this. So who really blinked first in this and why did the deal fall apart? It seems to ultimately have come down to Red Bull's reluctance to give up control and give up. I think I give up a lot. It would have been. You've got to remember the Red Bull when they took over Jaguar in 2005. It was a teen. They very much viewed differently to everything else in Formula One. They wanted to be Christian Horner's called it a maverick brand and it was to be a little bit different, throw really cool parties, do cool stuff like send an F one car up a upper ski slope and things like that. And it's that kind of thing that is really set Red Bull out. But they've also been a serial winning operation. That strike of titles between 2010 and 13 and looks set for the championship championships again this year. So they've ultimately got the best of both worlds on that. And I think that Red Bull, I think the more that talks dragged on, the more they realize just how much they would be giving up the ultimately you've got to, yeah, if you're winning and things going well to change that I think you really do need to think very carefully and I think that's where Red Bull got to. They thought, do we actually want to give Porsche? Not only obviously a share in our success, and that's fine. Like we've seen that work with Red Bull and Honda and Red Bull has been very clear about the input Honda has had. But I think with Porsche, yeah, it would have also been giving up 50% of the team. And I asked Christian horn about this zambo last Sunday after the race. And again, they won again a brilliant victory. And I said about the Porsche deal, is it dead in the water? And he said, look, Red Bull ultimately, this is our greatest marketing asset that is this team. This is what we pride ourselves on. And to have someone else's name above the door as well. That would be a really, really big thing for them to give up. And it's not only that, but it's also internally, it's a flexibility as well. It's that if Red Bull say things weren't working with, as we saw in the past world working with Renault, for example, and they said, right, we want to get rid of Renault, that's it. We have to do that for the good of the team. If things between Red Bull and Porsche weren't working well, if Porsche wasn't making a good enough F one engine, Red Bull can't just say, right, we'll go and find another engine because they're in bed together. So it's a much trickier situation. It would have been. And I think that is also what this came down to that Red Bull kind of looked at the way things were and thought it would be too much for us to give up. We're winning, we're successful. We've got an engine project in the pipeline. We've got interest from other manufacturers. We're hearing, for example, Honda, there's noises that they might look at 2026 as being a chance to come fully back into Formula One. And if Red Bull can ultimately get back to a situation where they've got this successful and strong engine operation with manufacturer support from an OEM, but faced alone a 100% of the team, then that is the perfect situation for them. And there's no reason to give that up. Have we heard from Red Bull or Christian Horner today from Italy have a reacted yet? Yes, so Christian Horner spoke to our colleague at motor sport dot com Adam Cooper about everything that happened and he said that ultimately it comes down to a different DNA between the two brands and I think that's something that we've got to remember in all of this that I think the way the Porsche goes racing and the way the Red Bull go racing would be two very different ways of going racing and I think it's interesting that we do see a lot of corporate overreach from these manufacturers and ultimately the greatest successes we see is when a manufacturer kind of says, right, here's the money. Here's the badge, go out and win. Like be successful. And that's kind of what has happened with Mercedes. You got to remember the Mercedes is only what a one third shareholder in the Mercedes team because they ultimately they realized it's a great marketing tool for them. It's a great way to sell cars, but also they don't have to get involved in the day to today running and things like that. And it is a success. And I think that that is something that with Red Bull and Porsche, it would have quite worked, I don't know. I think it would have maybe seen some clashes down the line and to fit two very sort of awkward LEGO pieces together if I may use that. Comparison would have been a bit of an interesting situation. I think we're all fascinated to see how it would work, but I think in the end they realized, look, this isn't going to fit. It's really interesting what you say about culture wars. And of course, Porsche being part of VW and ultimately a very big bureaucratic OEM owned by very big established family names, unions get involved as well or the works councils.
The Autosport Podcast
"red bull powertrains" Discussed on The Autosport Podcast
"Would be, yeah, it would be that that would still be the chassis base and then you would have Audi providing the engine from its neuberg site in Germany. Those two sides were together. But yeah, Audi, as a 2026, we do expect to be a works team taking a majority share in the Salva project, so it would have that ownership. So it wouldn't be so much of a 50 50 that would be more weighted in Audi's favor. Building a Formula One engine is a tough thing to do anyway and it's hard to do it right. Building two concurrently is an almost herculean task and that seems to be what VW group kind of came towards Formula One with with news of Porsche entering into a deal with Red Bull and of course those that follow Formula One will know that since February last year, Formula One of had Red Bull power trains being built again under that Red Bull umbrella on the same side and employing many of the star from the likes of Mercedes and Renault, building up that business of Red Bull making engines. And so I was a little bit confused as the stories and the rumors came out Luke about, well, a Red Bull gonna build the engine and it's a Porsche badge we've seen that in the 80s a tag engines as well support have done that before, but also when Audi came out, they said, well, no, we're going to build an engine. It's important for us to be an engine manufacturer to be known as Audi. They almost beat Porsche. Their VW bedfellows to the punch in a way. So where VW always talking about building to Formula One engines concurrently, or is that the difference between the two deals with Sauber and Red Bull? They do want two separate engine projects despite it being too manufacturers who are on the same grid. And it doesn't, it doesn't make sense in many ways. And as you rightly say, and it's something that we put to Audi when they made the announcement. He said basically why would you guys not sort of share like Intel and things like that and sort of share sort of cost saving measures by only building one engine and one that is bad as an Audi and one, as bashed as a Porsche. And they said ultimately we want these to be two separate teams. We want it to be that we have our identity as Audi. We have this fan following and things like that and people know that that is the Audi team. So there is that difference between the two of them. But there is, yeah, as you say, that Red Bull powertrains project that's being built up and Red Bull has always said, look, we can be independent. We can be self sufficient. We don't need an engine partner to work with from 2026. But if there is an interested party, as Porsche was, then we'd be happy to talk about possibly sort of working together and the sort of ins and outs of how that would work. And it would be that, yeah, you'd have the engine built at Milton Keynes, but the know how as well coming from Germany as well and everything, tying in together. So yeah, it's an interesting way that's kind of forming together because as you say, Red Bull have invested a lot into Red Bull powertrains. They've brought on a lot of really well known staff as well from teams such as Mercedes. And ultimately they want that to be an engine operation in its own right. With or without a partner. And I think then yeah, they're waiting to see was there an interest to partner who could come along at the right time. It looked like it was going to be Porsche, but now it's not. Everything seems to have been resting on a final decision for the 2026 engine regulations, which, through things like COVID, pushed back and delayed. In fact, you mentioned it already Red Bull were almost without an engine supply deal in recent times. So look, it's understandable that Formula One wanted a greater choice of manufacturers coming in to the sport. Now, all sports teams want to win against the best, but also they all want to win and if they can maybe delay somebody coming into the sport. And by a few months, it's a competitive advantage and in Formula One, you have to reach a consensus at times as well. Some would say a little like herding cats. One of the other teams said about new engine manufacturers coming in. So they've always been very open to it, but they've said that we want more manufacturers coming in that obviously strengthens Formula One to not just have this reliance on, say, three or four engine supplies. You want that pool to increase. And we've seen F one have its big manufacturer boom in the mid 2000s and obviously then the big manufacturer exodus at the end of the 2000s. So it does cut both ways. Mercedes and Ferrari, they always quite clear that they weren't looking to delay the approval of the 2026 regs to gain a few more months and get some kind of advantage. It was kind of indicated that they were, that that would sort of by dragging their heels a little bit, it would work in their favor by delaying maybe Porsche and Audi's plans a little bit, particularly Porsche and the link up with Red Bull. But again, I think that that has been part of this story, but the moment the green light was given to the engine rigs by the FIA in August. That then should have set off the dominoes for Red Bull to be able to announce with Porsche and Audi to announce its plans as well. We saw Audi do that, but it's all this stuff behind the scenes between Red Bull and Porsche that has ultimately caused that to fall down. So truthfully, I think that that was inevitable given that I think even if you'd had these regs approved months ago, I think rebel and Porsche was still got to the point they have now where Porsche says we want 50% of the team and Red Bull says hang on a minute, we're not up for that. What's your opinion? Do you think a new entrant can be successful in Formula One? Well, we've seen Honda eventually winning a break in the Mercedes dominance. But existing manufacturers have decades of knowledge they race day to the data. From your opinion, a team come in and expect to start winning in reasonable time. I think they can. I think it takes time to build up as with all things in Formula One, but I think the way the engine rules are now, it's been simplified a little bit. We've got to removal of the MG UH, for example, from 2026. And I think that you've got to remember these aren't just like, oh, we're going to set up an engine project and enter formula. And this is Porsche who have won LeMond 19 times one of the greatest manufacturers in automotive history with a rich rich history through motor sport who even as early as sort of like what 2017 18 they were looking at an engine project when they pulled the plug on their LMP1 program. So I think that, yeah, they can be successful. I think these things do take time. I think Audi, for example, they've set, they want to be competitive within three or four years of joining the F one grid. And that's, I think that's an interesting time frame. It's maybe quite soon it would seem like, but also, yeah, there's funding a lot of money. They're putting a lot of money into this. They don't want to be waiting around. So I think that I think they can be successful though, yes. I think that it's not going to be one of those things where if poor should do celebs or F one, they're going to be waiting years and years to get any kind of success. I think it's going to be a bit of a different story. When Honda came in, purely because these engine regs have matured so much, there's so much we'll know how, and yeah, I think the track record of companies such as Porsche does speak for itself. Right, so come on, you have your ear to the ground.
The Autosport Podcast
"red bull powertrains" Discussed on The Autosport Podcast
"Porsche has officially called off its plans. For a Formula One partnership with Red Bull, just weeks after the deal, looked all but signed, now it's dead in the water. I'm joined today by auto sports F one reporter Luke Smith to explain. So Luke just tell us what was the deal with Red Bull gonna be. Were they buying into Red Bull technologies or the engine part? Were they going to be a shareholder? I mean, who would have even been the boss? What's happened today? Yeah, as he said in the intro, it's a really big story for Formula One. It's something that we've kind of expected to be something of a formality for a number of weeks, but the more things got delayed, the more uncertainty hidden doubt crept in. And now we're in this situation where yeah, we know officially it is off Red Bull and Porsche will not be working together from 2026. It was always a deal that was very different to a traditional team and engine manufacturer tie up normally an OEM will come in and say, right, we want to be an engine manufacturer. Here are engines we look after that. The race team looks after the racing side of it. We work together and it's that kind of partnership. But what Porsche was looking to do with Red Bull was very different. It was looking to take a 50% share in the team. It was going to make a very big step in and it wanted a presence in F one that went beyond simply being an engine supplier. So there were, yeah, there were discussions. There were a couple of leaks even in Morocco from the business council or some body over there talking about what the deal would have been and it showed us that yeah, it was going to be a 50 50 share between Red Bull and Porsche. For Red Bull, that would have been a big deal to give up, or it's independence, it's had for close to 20 years now. And ultimately, that looks to have been what caused all of this to break down. And when the situation now where after months and months of negotiations and talks, it's dead in the water. Portia and Red Bull will not be working together. If we look at engine manufacturers over recent history in Formula One Honda returned as an engine supplier to McLaren. In 2015, best finished that year 5th ended the season 9th and in Fernando Alonso's words, it was indeed a disaster. Well, after a move to the Red Bull teams in 2018, they withdrew officially at the end of 2021, somewhat bizarre timing, leaving as champions. Now do you think the Honda project as it the highs and the lows of it either put off others from entering or even encouraged others to enter when they could see them start to win? I think it's an interesting one because I definitely think Honda that shows the perils of investing millions and millions into a project and it not working and just how long it can take you to properly sort of see the fruits of your labor and it can take a very, very long time. But I think that the way that the engine regulations are moving, particularly for 2026, things are getting a bit simpler, a bit cheaper. There's talk over an engine cost cap and things like that. And it's becoming a bit more sustainable than it was back when Honda came in and basically sort of thought, right, we'll come in. We know what we're doing. We'll make it work. And they simply didn't. I think that the approach now is quite different. I think that it's easier to get things right with these engines. I think that we've had what ten, 12 years or by the time we get to 2026 of these V 6 power units. So I think that that's not so much concern, but there was definitely question marks about a new entrant coming in, how much time would it take to catch up and things like that, what kind of concessions do they get? Are they new entrant if they're working with Red Bull who have their own engines arm as we know Red Bull powertrains. But I think that that was all, I think that was all sort of small, small fry ready for this for Porsche, I think, that to them, they were not so concerned about that. It was more about how would the partnership with Red Bull actually work? Red Bull is a team that wins a lot. We know that. We saw when things broke down with Renault between sort of what 2014 and 2018 just how much Red Bull wanted to be independent. It didn't want to be tied to a partner that wasn't delivering a competitive power unit, which is what Red Bull always lamented through that period. So yeah, it's definitely it's definitely something that I think shows how badly things can go wrong but I think in this case I think that wouldn't have been so dramatic for Porsche and it was more about how do we get things to work with Red Bull and the right partnership wasn't struck in the end. Yeah, there's been some talk over the years and more recent months of new entrants into Formula One and then they're like waiting for a bus to come at once. So we get an announcement about VW groups Audi and we get an announcement about VW groups Porsche entering in 2026. But what do we know about the Audi deal coming in as an engine manufacturer or a bigger deal with Sauber team ownership? What's happening with the other side of VW? So as things stand out is joining the grid in 2026 purely as an engine manufacturer that announcement was made at sparse. That is all a 100% confirmed Audi will be in F one in 2026. As part of this though, they are looking for a partner team and they do want to go a little bit further than simply saying, look, here's our engine and again, you do the racing side of it. So what is expected to happen is a deal with Sauber, which currently operates the Alfa Romeo team that will start from 2026, and that will be Audi's works team. Audi, we understand could take shares in the Sauber project as early as next year and it's expected to slowly build up its ownership and then come 2026. It will have a 75% ownership and Salva's current owner Finn rousing will have 25%. So that will work as Audi as Audi's Formula One team basically. But it's a little bit different to what Red Bull and Porsche have planned. It would be more weighted in Audi's favor and also you already have like this very strong operation at in will, where Sauber bass, they know how to build a chassis and things like that and it
The Autosport Podcast
"red bull powertrains" Discussed on The Autosport Podcast
"Really, the next couple of years are going to utterly fly by a few interesting subplots in this that I thought was interesting. There's a really good interview that Ted Kravitz from sky did with Christian Horner and his garden. Over the I think it was over the F one break, at least. And they go into quite a lot of detail on Red Bull powertrains there. Now obviously I'd known that they were growing that and had made some really high profile hires from particular. Mercedes and the high performance powertrains Mercedes, but actually going into a lot of detail there, but how they were building an engine business. Which I found really insightful. And I think that will be an easier deal for Porsche to come in and Red Bull have built a power trained business and portion can come in as a right where we'll have half of that at all brand it Porsche Red Bull or Red Bull Porsche or whatever. Really, really impressive. For a soft drinks company to build an engine company, it massively impressive, whatever you think of Red Bull, whether you're a fan or not or Christian. But I think Audi have a harder job because they want to do it from scratch and on their own. So and also at a time when automotive is heading into electrification. And even sport, I mean, look at FIA world Rallycross, top series of that is now gone in a fully electric and how yeah, there's conversations around E fuels or synthetic fuels and but really automotive is going electric and how now is the time and VW have led that. VW have led that more than Mercedes more than BMW as the established OEMs. Certainly way ahead of the likes of Ford's GMs and Toyotas of the world. And yet it's VW group that are choosing to invest in what is at the minute a big combustion sport, but Formula One has a lot of soul searching to do in terms of its future and carbon footprints and things like that. So it's going to be interesting how it all plays out. Again, so many subplots that my goodness me could make a whole podcast of their own. But let's call it a day now for the Friday pod. Hayden, thank you so much for joining us. What can people look out for over the weekend on auto sport dot com? Yes, this weekend, as I mentioned earlier in the pod, Matthew is currently crunching the numbers on the Friday practice to see who is really going to come out on top. I've had a conversation with him whilst he's been working on it. And yes, I think we've got an exciting race coming up with the likes of Verstappen and leclerc fighting their way from the back of the pack. And how can the frontrunners escape? Is it a Mercedes win possible? So that's very exciting. We've also got a look at our various old sport writers, their favorite Belgian grand prixs from across the year, years. Obviously the future of the race is under question at the moment in terms of will it stay on the calendar from next year, but it's a race that is a firm favorite. It's got great history, great culture that's followed it over the years. So one of the oldest races on the calendar, as well. So yeah, that would be an exciting little pick, and oh wow, all your greatest reaction from actin and reaction from the paddock it's far from this weekend. We are looking forward to it. I'm off to go pack my bag for the classic at Silverstone where I will be tomorrow, so I'll miss enjoy that. Coverage. Yeah, I can't wait. I'll be there with our chief editor, Kevin Turner. Making some podcasts about some classic stuff which would be very, very interesting. But I'll miss a bit of the live F one coverage. I'll be looking forward to barreling home as quick as possible and watching that on catch up. Make sure that you do join our post quality podcast tomorrow will be Luke Smith and Matt Q from the circuit or on their weight, probably on their way home or back at the hotel. I imagine the Airbnb, and then our man, our grandparents at Alex kalanos, on his holidays, till Monday. So I think we've got you lacing up your boots and coming off the bench for Sunday, if that's all right. I'm ready. We've done a pretty, yeah, pre game fitness test here. I hope I've passed, and yeah, I'll rest up for Sunday and I'll be all ready for you. Brilliant, we'll get you in the ice bath. Thank you very much for listening and we'll see you soon.
The Autosport Podcast
"red bull powertrains" Discussed on The Autosport Podcast
"And just to dissect that sort of Q one spat a little bit more. So we had a case where Norris and Schumacher were at the back of their pack, Schumacher was in the drop zone. And Schumacher has told, you know, go like hell, go like hell, Norris received a similar instruction, get your elbows out. I would take these cars ahead and sort of Schumacher sent this lunge down the inside of turn 16, which is not the final corner here, but it's the last sort of braking zone arrest. It's all about tearing up that exit and then you've got a 1.35 mile sprint until the next breaking zone to T one. So the fact they were trading positions, both them got rubbish exits. So they didn't improve Schumacher is out, and we're also just touched upon as well with the cause of that sort of madness in Q one, which was a messy, a messy few corners, half a lap for Lance stroll, where he goes on locks up and noses into the barrier. He reverses out and goes, I think there's damage. I think this damage team go, no, it's fine. No, stay out, press away. We need to go for another hot lap. And then what two, three corners in here is in the world this time it was terminal. That was his session over there. Did you just sort of want to unpack what happened there? Maybe throw our head to his teammate who did something similar but got away with it and Vettel progressed really well into Q three. Yeah, I think it's just tantamount to how tight that battle is in that pack that there is no room for margin. There's no guarantees for anyone getting out of Q one anymore. I think we've got Williams pegged a little bit towards the rear. They're obviously haven't developed their car as much as others and have kind of fallen back into that regular Q one situation for now. They've got some upgrades coming in the next two or three races that hopefully can lift them forwards, but yes, Aston Martin wasn't in that wasn't comfortably through strode made the error on coal tyres and slid in. And then late too late in the session. So Cedric's engineers had sats and doubts. They're doing enough time. I'm sure he would have come into the pits and have a look at it, but imagine if he had come into the pits and looked at it and said, no, it's totally fine. We could have got out of Q one no problem. So I think tantamount to a mistake from Lance, tantamount to poor timing with the timing of that mistake from Lance, but equally, if you're a team at Aston Martin with the budget, it's got you shouldn't be battling so hard to be getting out of Q one. Quiet. I was an interesting quote from the team's press this morning Tom McCulloch who's been in that series in Jordan team through the racing point that he says with the budget cap with the money they've spent on this obviously controversial upgrade and now with the crashes that they're back to being as bang for buck team, I suppose when the Aston Martin takeover Lawrence Stroll and plucking all a big talent from the Mercedes and Red Bull powertrain operations. And they seem sort of bloated and accessible, but he said no, we're having to go back for bang for about being really sort of lean and efficient way possible operating under the budget cap and that's before the repairs to stroll's Aston Martin a little bit, not quite a significant some of the builds has had to pick up over recent times. I know it's just jumping around a bit, but we'll cover off some of the other important results. Pierre gasly sort of a bit back on form after being put in a shade by sonora a little bit. He was 6 places out for Tori sort of emphatically won that, again, as you say, it's not quite a midfield battle, it's maybe a bit ahead of them, but behind Mercedes and actually broke up the two seal browsers sonoda was in 8th Vettel night in the Aston Martin Alonso tenth in the Alpine, and then the team McLaren's Esteban ocon and then going new Joe who's probably worth to mention that's the first time he's out qualified Bottas this season, but that's a bit of a messy day. And it also means now that with Joe having got a better of Bottas, a start I saw on social media, Carlos Sainz is the only driver not to out qualify his teammates so far this season. But I'd say maybe from what we've seen in the early part of the season, a bit of an off color day for Alfa Romeo's new sort of standard in 2022. Yeah, they looked to be massively on this huge crestor wave of momentum at the Spanish Grand Prix upgrades. It's been quite aggressive on upgrades. It all looked good. They had left Spain massive optimism for Monaco slow speed performance. Looked really, really promising, looked really good. Monaco weekend didn't click at all, though, that this point of Friday running didn't get on top of the setup. And it just didn't click. So when they left with some points, but not nowhere near what they had potentially hoped to get, which is fighting that top of that best of the rest field. I think coming here, they felt there was a chance to maybe not do as well as Monaco, but get back in that fight for 6, 7th 8th somewhere up there, but it just hasn't clicked this weekend. They were running older parts yesterday, so quite tight on spares. Today just didn't get the car clicked. But I think Joe's been doing a pretty good job this year. We've seen in the past that rookies can struggle, especially up against someone who uses good as Valtteri and Valtteri, someone who didn't out qualify Lewis only on the lucky days, there were days where he was genuinely quicker than Lewis. It's just the consistency of which he could do it. So some of the benchmark of Valtteri, who's in a happy place at Alfa Romeo, understands that car, you know, who's getting the most out of it. So I think for Joe to have dug down and done that is really good. And Joe's, I think one of Joe's strengths this year has been actually his race pace and consistency in the races. He's very strong on Sundays. He's been a bit unlucky with safety car timings or incidents or things not clicking through circumstances outside of his control on Sundays, but I think tomorrow is a great chance for him to potentially push things forward. Make the most of any chaos that happens up front. And try and get some more points. Yeah, here is notably hampered by clutch issues in the early races or launch issues in particular, but the way he recovered again on the fringe of the top ten is really impressive and like you say sort of cast aside that sort of cynicism around him joining obviously you know as a first Chinese full-time driver in Formula One the commercial opportunities are offered here sort of already tired before he had arrived here. I suppose in people saying him in the mode of other, let's say, well, renewing rate or well back drivers to be in the top flight recently, but no, getting his points on his debut in Bahrain. So maintaining a high level since then. Those are the notable, so I'm just going to throw ahead to the race tomorrow John. We always like a prediction, but I was doing my free practice to analysis. And again, we know that leclerc's quick over one lap. We've seen that consistently through the season..
Box of Neutrals
"red bull powertrains" Discussed on Box of Neutrals
"Are we allowed to still use letters of the Greek alphabet to describe things that aren't viruses? Yeah, well, I don't remember. Alpha and beta we went to Delta straight away. I started to Delta. I'm waiting for sigma alpha and sigma. One of the great venues. Max Verstappen had a crap away here too. In the end, couldn't get Paul, wasn't even close. City didn't like the delta. Was it? Delta comm all over the track, in fact, by the time you feed it seemed like it was a fuel line problem. Another engine problem though, and you know what's funny? It's only when Honda stopped calling them hondas when the engine started to be named Red Bull. They had reliability problems. This, of course, after years of making fun of ran over not being powerful enough, and then of course taking on the Honda engine wasn't quite reliable. Not so easy now, is it? All of a sudden, yes, technically it's still the hundred in the big built in the Honda headquarters and a symbol there and maintain there. But they want to name it the Red Bull powertrain and the Red Bull powertrain, rob, it's a bit shit. Yes. I'm still staggered as to how this is occurred. In the space of the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix last year and a few months of passed by and it's, yeah, it's genuinely a concern because I think, I don't know if they've underestimated the project involved as well. And you're right. It's largely it is the Honda engine. I would almost argue a case of it's more of it had been distributed era that it just happens to be called the Red Bull engine because if it was Honda was still around, I think he would still say the same kind of era so I don't believe it's a change of paperwork that's caused this issue. There is something that has gone wrong in the off season. It's like the engine is in witness protection. It's changed its name. Why tell you where it leaves? You know, we can't say. It's just off kilter at the moment. So that is concerned in their title defense as well, but that has changed that I guess the hierarchy of the engine order and all the radar. Nowhere to be found. But the Alpine team, I think, with a quiet achievers of the quiet, he said he should have got Paul and he I think he said it's probably probably said afterwards. I didn't listen. It was the best race of his career and he should have won it. He loves to say it's my favorite part of Fernando Alonso. He was very good. He's pretty good. Pretty good driver. But he loves to tell you how good he is. Lyon is Alonso. Write that down. Max Verstappen though 46 points off, I think it is now the championship. I don't study three races. 20 races still to go. The whole 2019 season. I think it's still to go. I think it's going to take their 20 crisis. Don't remember. Too many races ago. I don't want to call it a crisis. It's too early. But it does feel a bit like it's hitting to that. Like, it's taken a turn left. It's heading towards an easy corrected sooner rather than later because there's some weed races that we're going to. What we're going to email the next. Yes, oh, can you imagine if you thought Melbourne was a risk of COVID risk? Can you imagine Ebola? What do you mean? Well, the number of people, I could not just I mean, Italy's Ferraris on top of both championship standings. Kilometers away from Ferrari. It's like a precursor Italian Grand Prix. It's like a prologue. That's the one they realized. Yeah, it's like a saying playing a marvel stadium. Reference of the year. I've brought that one down. Yeah, it's like, yeah, it's quite marvelous, yeah. 1230 on a Saturday afternoon. It's just like, oh, it gives. Yeah, no, that's a fair point. But and then we have Miami, not long after. So there's a weird jumbled up calendar, especially in not to mention the two Middle Eastern races that we've started. Surely, Australia is still round one. The season officially started at least for me because that's the first Grand Prix actually. It was my own eyes and not the 5 and a half minute world time as YouTube replay. I'm not even watch that this way. I am very happy. The count is down. You can't just dab. But it's for the best for the best. But before we wrap up, straight in Grand Prix, we've got to talk about Australia's own the clarence. Famously, Australian team. And Daniel Ricciardo had a good crack this weekend. Well, I'll tell you what this fight had a very fight was the loser of this weekend because if there was any way to put the car wash in Daniel Ricciardo was to have a J 0.0 Ricardo side. Which was also the very cruelly points as it was very cruelly pointed at. Grant, some of points also far this season. Heading into velvet. So for him to just finish. Albeit behind Lando, but just to finish the race, you know, granted, I don't know if he still has the memories of 2019 in the back of his mind where crashed out for literally within meters of the race starting. Yeah, for him just to finish the score points. It wasn't a spectacular start to his championship campaign, but to start nonetheless. For him. And then Dave McLaren as well. It was, I think they maybe underachieved, if I'm perfectly honest, this weekend because I had them on for the podium and certainly they form in practice and in dating qualifying, you know, could have certainly suggested they should have been up there. So I think they granted they needed the points. I think I massively were under this weekend if I'm honest. Well, considering the retirements we saw, since they've been able to stay ahead of Mercedes, it may well have been. I think Mercedes was quicker on the ties at the end. But Mercedes Benz was still difficult. McLaren were the only two teams to sorry, the only two teams were both drivers. Finished in the points as well. Yes, there is something in that. I think there is something in that absolutely. And there we go and see whether the car will still be good at other tracks and all that kind of thing. But look, it was a good start as the old saying goes to finish first, first you must start the rights. So you can have hey, good old daddy. I do want to mention as well before we do wrap this one up as very briefly. Because boy did my crack have a should weekend. It was not good for you. Yes. The cracks are forming. Arrested. And if I'm perfectly honest, and not because of my credit, I think if you're able to fight in the lawns, I think there's something there's some bad juju going on it. I don't feel like they're very happy tame. They were even criticizing the Aston Martin's safety car this weekend. That's how much yes, it was George Russell, I think, and max knows Max Verstappen and George Russell agreed of course because he's a Mercedes driver in the other states. The safety car. She said it was too slow. So even copying it on the safety car. Sit against Colorado. It was the medical car driver this weekend. I didn't know that. Yeah, good on it. Yeah. It's great. Losing. I almost disappointed what you say in the leaves on the new paid highway drove the medical care this weekend. Now there's a fun fact for you. Did he drive it home? He probably. I would. The.
Box of Neutrals
"red bull powertrains" Discussed on Box of Neutrals
"I couldn't even tell you. It would have been. You know, what would have been in the V8 era? I'm guessing. Ten years ago, yes, yes, that's right. It would have been 12, of course, 2012. Oh, yeah, this is the McLaren era. My God, really? Yeah, yes. Yes, I didn't even think about that. You're right, yes, it is the McLaren era. Budapest? No, no, it was Korea. The great Korean Grand Prix. Do you remember when we used to have a Korean Grand Prix? I do remember that, yes. If he doesn't remember what point he scored in the very few Korean grand prixs, surely there would be memorable enough because he only did a handful of us. Well, I'm trying to think I should look this up. When he debuted in 2007, did points only go down to 8? Yeah, it's still not really an excuse. Yeah, so then go. So maybe, you know, he's regressing into his mind. You know he's forgetting all of the success going back to when he was a child. But that really summarized how depressing his day was finished tenth. Mercedes car still no good. I don't know what they're going to look like when they get to Melbourne. Likewise, McLaren. I mean, they looked a bit better actually than they did in Bahrain, but still, you know, the outskirts of the points, at least Lando Norris knew that they were points for the low paying places and shame Daniel Ricciardo retired, but he's having good race. In fact, a lot of cosmic Ricardo Alonso and Valtteri Bottas all retired on the same lap, with engine problems. Yuki tsunoda had an engine problem every day Friday Saturday and Sunday so much for that Red Bull bench onto power unit. And him Perez gasly all have already taken power unit parts to build a penalty. It's very old school Honda. It's very classic Honda at the moment. I've got to say, yeah, so if you can't say Honda I guess because they no longer paying for that privilege. It's very classic Red Bull powertrains. It's like the opposite of Braun with the nil percent strike rate of reliability. Quite literally. Every race they've had, they've had issues. So two Grand Prix is down and they're at nil, I love that threat. I don't even know what it means, but British people like to say it to Jeremy clocks and walks to the sides. And let's just finally, we've got a touch on Mick Schumacher's crash. It was a big one, big boy. In qualifying in Q two, he was second hospital. He's fine. He did not race because Haas was worried that they might be another crash and then they wouldn't have a car to bring to Australia, so they decided to be better just to go to Australia. Which they did. But I think what's also interesting, I guess this brings us back to the discussion about Saudi Arabia is that it's not only the context of the race, but quite a few drivers spoke about the safety of the circuit, the fact that it's sort of too fast and too blind to be too fast. It's too fast and too furious in other words. Which is just no, it's no good. We all know that. I think that there's a track that appeared on the calendar to be the fastest straight sick, the one with the most corners. And Max Verstappen sounded really well. We said most of them are really just stripes. There's no reason for them to be corners. It only makes them dangerous for no reason. There are only 7 breaking zones at this 27 quarter circuit, by the way. So it's not really. So how do you know there are 27 corners? That's like, I thought the Nurburgring. Yeah, yeah, because most of them are rubbing. Most of them are just like gentle bins. But that's the way it is, but it makes them blind and make some dangerous and of course an ought to concrete walls, virtually no runoff, even the previously very wacky Azerbaijan circuit has run off areas at the end of straights like a conventional straight track. So I do wonder whether, you know, if the circuit comes back next to you, which you probably will, if it's going to look a fair bit different to what we got. But obviously, thankful that Mick Schumacher's okay wasn't the only driver was injured. Was it had drives in F two have pretty big crashes in simo places every day this weekend as I feel like was the case last week and there was a big crash and I think when F one drive was a happy to admit that they don't love the safety then something's probably wrong. Yeah if she thinks a few things to unpack from this weekend by the Santa Fe. So for the interest of safety and making a political point, I decided not to wake up at 4 o'clock in the morning and.
The Autosport Podcast
"red bull powertrains" Discussed on The Autosport Podcast
"Mercedes powertrain runners could do that. It does look like Aston Martin's gone in a completely different direction. Maybe clarin curd. And then potentially Alpine as well, but we don't know how they've packaged this new, this new powertrain as well. Obviously it's the team that sort of did that style of cooling the most last season with that giant air box, but it really depends on that packaging and what works for each team. It does seem that you look at the Ferrari teams, they've gone a completely different direction. I think the slat Honda slash Red Bull powertrains, whatever they're calling it now. It's probably tens towards that direction as well, but the Mercedes teams feasibly could if they've got the spare cash to do it. Plenty of memes flying around today if people posting old pictures of max scowling or Christian Horner scowling. Do you think they'll be upset tonight having seen it? Can Red Bull though from what you've seen today be confident in their own direction? Because again, like you said at the start, actually, they've got some interesting things on their car. And their pace looks okay as well. So what we're loving as fans of Formula One this year is the cars all look different, but as I think you said on the first series of podcasts on one of the ones that you did from Barcelona, actually there could be multiple right answers, not just one right answer, and that's what we're going to love about watching Formula One this year. So how will Red Bull do you think there might be feeling tonight? Well, I think they can be confident in their own direction, as long as it's not the direction that Sergio Pérez was facing at the end of testing, which was the wrong way. In ending under a red flag. We've missed you. We've missed you red flags. Possible end to a test session. Spun a very, very low speed, rolled it back into the gravel. It was like, oh, I'm stuck. Right. That will be the end of the day there. But I think that Red Bull looks incredibly reliable, even though even though he ended the session Perez still did a 138 laps, which is the most of any driver and the rebel did more than any other team. But as you said, there are, I think there are multiple right directions. And again, it depends what works for each team. But again, we'll still start to see other teams put their own put those ideas in the wind tunnel and see what works best and see what doesn't. You look at the Ferrari and it's a completely different direction for everybody else, but it looks, it looks really good. Again, it's reliable. The drivers are seeming to have an easy time with it. Yeah, there's a little bit of pork sing kind of see that on the straights, but it doesn't seem to be something that is causing either Charles Leclerc or Carlos saints to snatch a break or lock up or anything like that. They seem to be on top of it. But I think Red Bull has its own path to forge, I think. We were talking about them in Barcelona and having their own innovative side pod design. Maybe they're just a little bit upset that they're not getting the attention this week. So, you know, it might be that have to wait and see what they do. It might be that. We are going to talk about bouncing next in the second half of the podcast, so make sure you stay tuned in. Okay, now let's talk about bouncing or porpoising. I think they want us to call it bouncing. For some reason. But earlier in this week, we had the auto sport podcast with karoon Chan dock and his 2021 preview. And he made a really good point, and he said, yeah, this is the first time we've seen it in Formula One for many years, but we get this a lot in sports car racing. It's not something that is going to be alien to any professional engineer or aerodynamicist. But again, today we saw those videos of, I think it was gasoline. At one point. And it looked from the onboard helmet facing camera. It looked pretty violent. But Cory was saying, well, you know, what are you going to put up with if you get a few extra tenths? Or the driver is uncomfortable? You know, what are you going to go for? So you did a lot of the live auto sport live today pretty much most of the day. And you watched all the coverage today. So what's your impression of how the teams are experiencing bouncing on a different track, different temperature, different environment, and with more of a setup that will reflect what we're go racing with next weekend. I think we've seen it a lot less bad than it was in Barcelona. I think out of the front, what the expected frontrunners, Mercedes still looked very poor PC. And but they were putting on, they were sort of playing with strengths, strengthening the floor this morning. Putting some stays on. And just to sort of playing around. Was that to do with the bouncing? Or was that something else? There is also an issue around how much the flaws are bending and the FIA have got to look into that as well. Ross brawn talks about an F one TV that that's going to be an area that they're going to have to try and stop any cleverness from the teams that's not in the spirit. But was that to do with this bouncing issue that Mercedes were trying to strengthen their floor a bit? It does seem so. And there were a few other teams that had sort of experimented with it as well, but it's all about how you run those ground effect floors and these produce a lot of down force. These produce much more down force on the floors previously did. And when you're if the sides of the floor are folding down, that's creating a much more closed system. So you're able to derive a lot more ground effect and generate a lot more down force. But the problem is because you're accelerating the airflow underneath the car. Making this problem a little bit worse. And I spoke to a former F one aerodynamicist Jean Claude last week, he designed Formula One cars for Ferrari.