Aired Last week 4:42
Big Landlords Scrap With WeWork for Coworking Clients
Business Wars Daily
From the news
Aired Last week 4:42
Big Landlords Scrap With WeWork for Coworking Clients
Business wars daily is brought to you by Pitney Bowes, and send pro online shipping can be complex with the uncertainty over costs and deciding which carrier to use plus tracking your packages things can get confusing. Stay tuned to the end of the show to find out how Pitney Bowes and send pro online can save you time and money and to get a special offer just for listeners of the show. From wondering, I'm David Brown, and this business wars daily on this Wednesday January night where are you working today? An anonymous corporate cubicle or maybe a large open space with couches ping, pong tables and free gourmet coffee. If your answers the ladder, perhaps you've jumped on one of the hottest trends in Real Estate cO working or leasing workspaces by the hour day or month. The category was pioneered in twenty ten by New York based company, we work marketing, it's communal spaces office nirvana for eager entrepreneurs and lonely freelancers. But today the person working next to you might not be a self employed, creative more than a third of we work members. Now work for businesses with one thousand employees or more as the corporate world hedges their bets with flexible office space, if a project goes south, they're not stuck with expensive years long leases. We works growth in corporate customers is no accident. The company's been pushing hard into corporate leasing that's raised the ire of large landlords the very companies. We work rent space from typically companies like CBRE, the country's largest office landlord. Rent whole floors to large businesses. They rent extra space to we work which in turn leases that space to its customers. Now, some landlords viewing we work as a direct competitor, a refusing to lease to the company, but other landlords are eyeing the hot category and jumping in CBRE will launch its own co working enterprise called HANA this year. Like, we work hana's selling the concept that we can all be ecstatic it work its website sports smiling. Young people enjoying coffee at a lobby bar or working on nearby. Sofas HANA will debut in New York City where co working is hot and expected to continue spreading like wildfire. If the economy remains healthy if there's a downturn. We work could be hurt. Whether the same is true for the newer crop of co working landlords has yet to be seen. In the meantime, the options for where and how to work keep expanding. And that's got to be good news for people looking to escape the corporate cubicle. From wondering this business wars daily. We'd love to know more about you won't you take a minute. Visit one dot com slash survey. You can answer a couple of quick questions. That would help us out a line. I'm David Brown back with you tomorrow. Shipping can be complex with uncertainty over costs and deciding which carrier to use plus tracking your packages things can get confusing. Now, there's a better way to ship pro online by Pitney Bowes with simple online. You can easily compare USPS and other shipping options in all in one online tool, you can print shipping, labels and stamps on your own printer and track all of your shipments as well. Plus when the US postal rates increase on January twenty seventh you'll still be able to access savings of up to forty percent off USPS priority, mail shipping and five cents off. Every letter you send just by using Centro online. Simple online is only fourteen dollars ninety nine a month, and you can get a free thirty day trial. When you visit PBA dot com slash be WD, deeply you'll also receive a free ten pounds scale to help. You weigh your packages and accurately calculate the cost of shipping. That's PB dot com slash. BWI early and big thanks to Pitney Bowes and send pro online for sponsoring this show.
Business Wars Daily
Aired 3 months ago 32:54
'This is crazy!' Interview: Redfin CEO Glenn Kelman
Glenn Kelman has led Redfin from a small, bold real estate startup to one of the global leaders in real estate technology. He's also an outspoken leader inside the company and beyond, not afraid to criticize his community and his industry when he knows they can do better. On this epsiode, we share the full interview between Kelman and GeekWire Co-founder John Cook, taped live at the 2018 GeekWire Summit.
GeekWire - Geared Up
Aired 3 months ago 26:30
We're Going To See An Implosion In High-End Condos: Guterman
Gerald Guterman, Senior Principal Partner at Guterman Partners, LLC, on risks in the condo market. Leslie Wohlman Himmel, Co-Managing Partner at Himmel + Meringoff Properties, on real estate investing opportunities in New York City. Don Peebles, Chairman & CEO of The Peebles Corporation, on national housing market and affirmative investing. Jim Bianco, President and Founder of Bianco Research and a Bloomberg Opinion columnist, on why Trump is right to question the Fed.
P&L With Pimm Fox and Lisa Abramowicz
Aired 2 months ago 32:25
Monopolies In The U.S. Have Threatened Our Democracy: Tim Wu
Tim Wu, author and Professor at Columbia Law School, discusses his new book, "THE CURSE OF BIGNESS: ANTITRUST IN THE NEW GILDED AGE." Leslie Wohlman Himmel, Co-Managing Partner at Himmel + Meringoff Properties, on how Amazon’s new headquarters will impact the New York City real estate market. Lionel Laurent, Bloomberg Opinion columnist covering finance and markets, on the bitcoin sell-off. David P. Willard, Founder, CEO & Managing Partner at 52 Capital Partners, LLC, on why the slowdown in China M&A may not last.
P&L With Pimm Fox and Lisa Abramowicz
Aired 4 months ago 21:35
5 proven tips for startup business success | Ep. 62
Each company has a starting point no matter what organization. One person had an idea and turned into a success story. Some rose to the top while others fell into the shadows on this episode were sitting down with two onto preneurs who pulled back the curtain of their organization and gave us a front row seat into their startup process to help our new business become a legacy. Let's get to the podcast. Welcome to another episode of the ROI podcast presented by the Indian University School of business. I'm your host Matt Martel alongside the associate dean of academic programs. Mr. Phil Powell for those of you joining us for the first time. We just wanna say, welcome to the show. We put out a weekly episode that helps organizations make better business decisions. And if you could do is huge favor, we would be honored if you'd hit that subscribe. But that way you can get the latest content. The moment it's released. Also, if you would like for us to discuss a topic leave a comment were recommended, guess for our show, we would love to hear from you. Just send us an Email at ROI pod. That's r. i. p. o. d. at UP you I dot EDU again, that's r. i. p. o. d. at UP you, I dot EDU. All right. How many times have we had an idea and thought that could make a great business. Or how many times have we thought about branching off starting our own company? Well, for those of us who are looking where to start today's episode is for you. You know, Matt, I think those thoughts have run through every listeners mind. In many times, you get these ideas and they seem to basic and you say to yourself, of course, that's been done and you move on to something else yet. A lot of the time, those assumptions are misplaced. People may have the same thoughts, but they don't act upon them according to the bureau of labor statistics. The number of established companies less than one year old is the highest. It's been since the great recession of two thousand eight. The job creation. These companies create is increasing the represented a larger and larger share of our labor force, and we were seeing a lot more companies entering the market than exiting it's reflective of innovation. It reflective of the impact of new technologies and new processes on our. Economy according to the small business administration companies with fewer than five hundred employees provided sixty four percent of the new jobs in the economy, the numbers don't lie. So it's clear to see that these ideas that enter people's minds and that when those folks have the bravery to become an entrepreneur, an act upon those ideas, they create solutions to consumer problems which drives business growth, which drives prosperity in the US economy. So the question becomes, where do we start? How do we take this idea from conception to the market? We sat down with two bright minds at real Inc that's real why, and see a real time video platform that instantly connects real estate professionals with prospects to tour space co, founder and CEO, Matt, y, RIC and director of operations. Jordan easily took us through their hard-fought entrepreneurial journey. Here's Matt Weinrich. I knew alternately my end goal somewhere in my life would be to start a business have company on my own in. And so I was always thinking incident bits of ideas and opportunities and what I was moving from Purdue up to Chicago. I looked at over forty different places to live in person up there, six weekends in Rhode look at properties and half of them. I would walk in and turn around and walk out within seconds. I instantly knew I wasn't going to be living there very frustrating process broken process. And so I started looking at the process very critically of what could have been done differently. What I could have done had or used to streamline that. And it just so happened that may of two thousand eleven was when FaceTime came out. And so just of put together would've absolutely had my agent. Walked me through some of those properties virtually while sitting on campus Purdue and I could have knocked out half of my trips up to Chicago. So it was one of those what those light bulb moments where I saw gap in the market, saw an opportunity started shooting a few things around talk to some eight. Agents and brokers that were in my network already started asking them about this sort of experience with clients if they felt that pain point as an agent started talking to some of my friends on the consumer side of as well. And just identifying those initial triggers, is this an opportunity beyond just myself it's impacting our industry? Is this impacting just my demographic? How big is this? And how far does it go? And I kind of sat on the idea for a little bit for about two years while I was a consultant. And eventually I just saw that pain point iterative time and time again, especially as a consultant, we were traveling on the road Monday through Thursday, Monday through Friday, every single week for the job. One of the hardest things I saw my colleagues go through was trying to find a place to live because they couldn't physically be there. And so finally got to the point where I could not stop thinking about the idea. I knew that if. I tried to go go it alone. It probably wouldn't get to where it needed to be. So a work of started talking to one of my then colleagues on my now co founder of the business. He instantly clicked with the idea and we were in my apartment the next weekend, white boarding and figuring out the business plan for those unfamiliar with real Inc. Again, you spell that real Wyan c. this great startup provides live and edited real estate tours that's available through mobile device or computer. Basically, you can turn apartment or house anywhere in the world and apartment agent or real estate agent using their own phone can walk you through the property and the saves the client time and resources. Especially they live far away as mad. The CEO and co founder said the Genesis of this company started with Matt's annoyance. He was wanting to relocate to Chicago, this added miles to his car. It cost him time and money. And lots of frustration, trying to coordinate schedules. He found himself disappointed the whole process, and he thought there's got to be a better way, not even mitts. His business idea seems like something a million people could have thought of an started, but they didn't. He was annoyed with how he was shopping for housing. So he made a solution that's now become a successful business. So the first t takeaway, when bringing your business idea to life is embraced the reality that your idea is not to simple. The number one question I got when I was building this company was well, why wouldn't someone just pull out FaceTime and do FaceTime. It's a free solution. It's on their phone. All ready and the. That was a big. That was always a question in the back of my mind. Is there enough of an opportunity here that people will pay for it and pay for a built for real estate solution? There are so many, somebody constraints with FaceTime. It's only one to one. It's apple only as soon as it's done. It's gone. It's reliant on memory, all of our life tours saved or recorded to the cloud. And here's a big differentiator that sets Matt the CEO and co, founder of real Inc apart from any others. He was not discouraged by the fact that there was a simple solution that simple solution could have been. Why can't someone just use FaceTime in the moment to solve this issue? Matt saw business opportunity when if you jump on the video call, but then he went to watch later. FaceTime can solve that. What if anyone with any phone device could watch in real time? What if multiple people wanted to jump in on the same time and provide comment, basic FaceTime didn't provide that solution in these permutations of how this technology could be used. Used in this idea could be used was business model instead of letting others tell us why an idea won't work or why it's already been done. Matt shows us that that criticism or skepticism can be used to our advantage inside those pushback lie the keys of differentiation and differentiation leads to a successful business solution. The second takeaway to bring your business idea to life is to really take your time and do extensive research. One thing I do credit in those early early months was taking our time, so we took our time and I think one of our earliest investors actually our first investor in the business, he actually cut us a check, no strings attached before anything was really formed and gave us the advice of don't build anything. Go out, go to conferences, run focus groups. Just talk to your target audience before you build anything understand the personas, understand the needs and the opportunities. And so really, that's what we did. Did for the first ten twelve months before we even thought about building a product. We specked things out specked out what the product would be, what the messaging would be go to market strategy, all of that. But ultimately he was listening to the market and figuring out what this company needed to be to have a market market opportunity and a chance at surviving. And so once we got to a point where we were very confident in what we needed to build and what would drive value for customers. We brought on a technical technical member of the team built out and EP minimum viable product just enough to get in the hands of some test users and real, really hit the ground running from there. That was alternately what gave us comfort in knowing that there was a valid opportunity here focus on the customer focus on New York clients, your market, and listen. To them, they will show you the path that you need to be on. They will tell you what your product needs to be. What needs to do. Their opinion is ultimately the one that values most not even investors and all that. It's your customer. So you need to be listening to. We need to remember that creating a business takes a lot of time. We have to embrace that truth and feel comfortable with it. So if you're going to be in the trenches, for the long haul, we better make sure we know who we are reaching and more importantly, we want to know what the consumer really needs, not what we think they need. We need to put our ego to the side. We're here to serve the customer, not ourselves this part of forming your startup. For me, your business is like building the foundation of the house, though the aesthetics are not pleasing, nor does it show a homes character. But without that foundation, every piece of wood brick furnishings your curtains, everything falls apart like a house of cards and. A summer breeze. We cannot underestimate the step in the process of build the house nor in building a business. So once we embrace the idea that are is not too simple, then take extensive time to research. The third key takeaway for bringing our business idea to life is to drown out the noise. That was one thing early on in Chicago when we were starting our business that I felt like there was a lot of noise. I feel like there are a lot of people in Chicago in particular that we're playing startup that were playing entrepeneurship Zing clearly weren't going to go anywhere, but there are just so many vents so many places to be so many scenes v. in that ultimately was distraction early on, and that's quieter here in Indianapolis. They're still great ecosystems and meet ups in co, working spaces where you can be in community with those other people going through the same seasons, but it's focused on hard work. It's focused on results. It's focus on actually growing building that ultimately looking back, it just pulled us. Away from stuff that we could have been working on could have been doing good, been listening to the market and building product and things like that. We must stay grounded in the reality of what we need to deliver for our customer. Entrepreneurship is all about creative solution to a problem and delivering it through our enterprise. We cannot lose sight of that. There will be times throughout our entrepreneurs journey when we get distracted startup, hang out groups or investors trying to steer the direction, the company we need to listen, but we still need to stay focused. Even our closest advisors will offer solutions that will not work. We're not saying to avoid all these things or not listen or hide in a closet and that look at the sunlight and just focus on your product development. What we need to do is understand our why. Remember why we decided to start why the world needs our solution and why we are putting this much work into gambling on our passion and creating the solution are y become. Are anchor and protection. When the noise and distractions come are, why axes, a filter for every decision that we make Simon cynic offers an incredible Ted talk on this entitled, how great leaders inspire action. If you have not listened to it, we highly recommend it. So third, most watched Ted talk in history. So once we run out the noise around us and stay focused on our conceptual business idea. The fourth key takeaway to creating a successful startup is to hone in on a super specific market segment. At the beginning, we wasted a lot of time we, we were chasing every shiny object, and we didn't really hone in on a particular market, a particular segments where we may have been seen success, but we could also have success here. We also have success here and so that lack of focus early on probably held us. Back from some strong initial growth because we were all over the place, especially in the real estate industry where you've got commercial and multiple parts of commercial with retail industrial of that, you've got residential sales. You've got multifamily, student, living, senior living there. So many different segments of the real estate industry that our platform works perfectly for, but the all take different, go to market strategies. What really got us to where we are today was honing in on the product market fit where we had a true b. to b. opportunity and the product was proving successful quicker and Huntington on that success is really what's expanded our growth being very, very focused and understanding if I'm going to build a product, sometimes that paralysis that you mentioned Matt might come from. I'm trying to go after too many things all the ones. So by segmenting your market, you're gonna market one way to all of these people. It's not going to you're not gonna have the big. What is it total addressable market that numbers probably not gonna be as big if you hone in your your, your specific market segmentation, but you're going to be able to market to them. You're going to be able to speak their language in the sales process more effectively. You're going to build a product that is more specific to their use case. You're not going to be trying to build integrations with twenty different industries. You're going to be building for one, and you're going to be an expert in that. And once you own that one market segment, you can go to a peripheral segment where you can tweak a little bit of the marketing or the product or the sales process to fit that kind of adjacent market against. Got Maxwell highly recommend that because we are so passionate about our idea. We can easily think of a million ways why every individual and the planet could use our product yet. This is dangerous because the reality is our initial product only addresses the solution to a very specific market segment focusing on that group instead of focusing on the broader market. Like Matt Jordan said will allow us to master. Solution guide us where we need to expand and from those insights, we can deliberately broaden our markets. Okay. So we've gone through the process and now we are off the ground running as a business. Our idea is not to simple. We've taken time. We've done our research. We've silence the noise distractions around our organization, and we've identified and honed in on a super specific market segment. Now the fifth and final key, and I think most important takeaway to bring your business idea to life is to simply persevere hands down. The big lesson I've learned through all of this is perseverance. You mentioned the highs, the lows, the roller coaster. That is the oil journey in never ends no matter how good or how bad it is. It's going to get better and it's also going to get worse. It's never gonna change. The thing that I really see consistently time and time again in mid west built companies is hard. Penis and the value of actually providing value be investors in the mid west. They wanna see revenue. They wanna see companies that are growing with expanding contracts and not just fluff and word of mouth and promises. They won't results. This point about perseverance is the most simple, but most important insight for success for Matt and Jordan. When you study the most successful executive, the most successful business leaders, they pick a few things. They singularly focused on those things and they walk into work and they move the needle on those few things every day. They don't let anything distract them. They don't let anybody tell me, can't do it and importantly enough. They don't let themselves tell them not going to be successful. That's perseverance. And I love the point here that the mid west, this wonder. Full state of Indiana where the Kelley school of business is based in thrives. That work ethic is something that gives us grit, and it gives us that that willingness to follow through and be deliberate. So if you if our listeners remember anything from this podcast, it's all about perseverance. Don't let anything distract you ignore the shiny objects. So let's recap. Ideas can start from a million different problems for Matt. His was the annoyance of driving hundreds of miles to look at properties only to be disappointed. They may seem super basic, but we have to remember that are are not too simple. Once we walked that down in our minds, we need to turn criticism of why it won't work or why something already exists into questions are product could answer, look at the flaws to the current solution in the market and figure out how our idea could fix those issues. Secondly, it's extremely important to slow down and take our time by doing extensive market research from focus groups to meeting with industry professionals, take time to really know what the market needs. Third, once we start moving the ball down the field, we have to drown out the noise. Silence those distractions knowing why we're starting this business or idea helps to. Silence those annoyances, this can identify who to bring in and who to walk away from what conference or hang out groups to explore and which wants to pay no attention to. Because at the end of the day were trying to build a business and we dictate how it comes to fruition. Fourth, once we get our idea going, it's important to hone in on a super specific market segment. It's easy for us to answer why the whole world could use it. But the reality is the whole world is not ready for mastering how we market to a specific segment makes widening our reach a whole lot easier in the long run. And finally, the fifth and most important key takeaway to bringing your business to life is get ready to persevere. The entrepreneurial journey is a roller coaster. There's guaranteed to be highs and there's even more guaranteed to be lows. We wear many hats as the leaders and we will hit major set. Bax however, what separates companies who make it? And those that don't is the willingness to push through this will take years. Quite frankly, it will take the life of your organization because even well established companies still hit major setbacks. If you enjoyed our podcast, we would love your help when you get a chance head over to items and leave us a review, and if you want us to explore a business topic, if you have questions you would like answered or just want to recommend a guest for our show, shoot us an Email at ROI pod. That's r I p o d. UP, y dot EDU. This has been another episode of ROI podcast presented by the Indiana University Kelley school of business. I'm your host Matt Martel alongside Philp hall where we work hard to help organizations make better business decisions. We'll see you next week.
The ROI Podcast
Aired 3 months ago 81:29
BiggerPockets Money Podcast 42: How to Invest in Real Estate with Joshua Dorkin & Brandon Turner
Welcome to the bigger pockets. Money podcast showed for forty two where we interviewed Joshua Dorgan and Brandon Turner for bigger pockets dot com. If you're the hundred thousand dollar a year person living in Denver or you're the eight dollar an hour guy living in, you know, podunk, Washington, do can figure out how to make it work because real estate works for every person in every area. Anytime the question is how it's time for a new American dream. One that doesn't involve work in a cubicle for forty years. Barely scraping by whether you're looking to get your financial house in order invest, the money already have or discover new paths for wealth creation, your in the right place. This show is for anyone who has money or wants more. This is the bigger pockets, money, podcasts as everybody. I'm Scott trenched. I'm here with my co host miss Minnie, Jensen, hateds, and Mindy. Tho those excited. I'm doing great, but I've so excited for this episode because we're interviewing dashed in Brandon from bigger Puckett's. These are. I don't know if you know this, but they're kind of a big deal. And I'm really excited about this EPA. Sewed because I people ask me all the time. How do I get started investing in real estate? How did you start? Mindy? How did you learn weren't you scared? And I learned by just jumping in with both feet because I started when I was really young and I thought I knew everything, but that's not necessarily the best way to go about it. Sometimes you can make bad decisions as I have done in the past. But I guess today, Justin, Brandon have literally written the book on how to invest in real estate, bigger pockets, founder, Joshua Durkan, and Brandon Turner from the bigger Puckett's real estate investing podcast, join us today to talk about real estate investing and specifically how to get started. They've got a new book coming out this Thursday called how to invest in real estate. This book is available at bigger Puckett's dot com. Slash invest in our e invested in real estate, but you don't have to spell it real estate. These guys, obviously, Josh and Brennan are the architects joshes the architect and founder a bigger pockets and Brandon was the first employee and has really crafted. I think a lot of. What we're all about here on bigger pockets between the two of them, they have gathered more perspective about real estate investing than maybe anybody else in the planet and what's going to be awesome out this book as just general ability to introduce you to the concepts of real estate investing. It's the place to start when it comes to and also what's going to be unique about it is they have forty different personal stories in this book, what's powerful about bigger pockets, what's powerful about real estate, investing in general, was powerful about our community is that there is no one right way, and you're going to relate to someone story more than you're gonna relate to somebody else's story, right? What's the best way to move forward with investing real estate business, personal finance while I think that it's to hear and read or other or somehow consume information about what people like you near you are doing in a way that you can relate to and take action. We hear a, I can do that too. That's the way to learn. I think that's what this book is really going to offer you over the course of your time, reading it. I have quote from Andrew Carnegie before we get started, I love this quote, ninety percent of all millionaires become so through owning real estate, more money has been made in real estate than in all industrial investments. Combined the wise young man or woman or wage earner of today, invest his money in real estate. And this is Andrew Carnegie saying this. He's kind of knows a little bit about money and investing, and it's just completely true. If you want to grow your wealth, real estate is kind of the way to do it. I mean, yes, you can invest other ways, but it's so easy to do it with real estate. Yeah. I mean, that's what this show bigger pockets money is all about is this is personal finance, but really it's personal finance for people who intend use real estate as at least one contributor in their portfolios. Right? And that's what we're all about. Very pockets is using that as one of the many tools and wealth available to, and it's a powerful one and our founder, Josh Zorkin. And of course, Brandon, whatever the heck he does are incredibly gifted in this area of just kind of walking you through how to begin investing in real estate and have experienced from hundreds and hundreds of interviews and tens of thousands of hours studying how to make ordinary people, successful, real estate investing. And they think back to all of our guests, I think there's probably seventy five percent of the people that have been a guest on this show already have at least some real estate holdings. Yeah. I mean, the point of this, the point of bigger pockets is to help you build that financial foundation that's capable of producing many investments Yeltsin's decide for yourself. But we believe that as you grow your financial position, you'll find room for real estate as at least one of the investments in your portfolio because it is powerful, and because it is one of the most effective ways to build wealth, that's not neither truly passive nor truly business. It's kind of fun. Okay. We should bring them in because this show runs really long mostly because of Josh Dorgan who can't seem to stop talking. And Brandon Turner who also can't seem to stop talking. So before we bring Josh and Brandon in, let's hear a note from today's sponsor. Three higher can make a huge impact on your business. That's why it's so important to find the right person, but where do you find that individual? You could try posting on the job boards, but can you really be sure that right person sees your job instead find the right person who will help you grow your business with Lincoln for the small business owner who is looking to expand their business in pursuit of financial independence hiring can be a daunting task, thankfully linked in is here to help you and get you on the path to fi. That's why you should use linked into find your next higher. Grow your business and hit that number. Most Lincoln members have not frequently visited boards, but nine out of ten members are open to new opportunities. That's why new hires made every ten seconds using Lincoln bigger pockets, even uses Lincoln as part of our hiring strategy, hurry to Lincoln dot com slash BP and get fifty dollars off your first job post. That's Lincoln dot com. Slash BP to get. Fifty dollars off that first job post Lincoln dot com. Slash BP terms and conditions apply. Digging financial risks might make sense at the time. But when they turn into big mistakes, we ended up stressed and scrambling being good with money and hearing processes can be tough, especially if you're running a business for business owners, it's important to avoid financial mistakes and a simple accounting solution like fresh books can help fresh books as a cloud accounting software that ensures your financials are properly tracked organized and your business is compliant. Come tax time. Here's all fresh books helps. I keeps you organized with smart and simple time tracking for you and your team. Second. When it's time to collect, you can create and send super polished invoices in about thirty seconds or less. It lets you record and organiz expenses with tap of your mobile camera, and finally gets you paid in a snap by accepting credit card payments. Directly on those invoices festival, fresh books. Keep you keep you compliant with hope for reports. You'll need for tax season. Right now, we're offering our listeners of free thirty day trial of fresh books. No credit card required. Good afresh fresh books dot com. Slash BP money and enter. Bigger pockets money in the. How did you hear about a section. All right, Josh, Brandon, from bigger pockets dot com. Josh Brennan, welcome to bigger pockets buddy podcast. How's it going today? What's going on Scotty? Boy, I gotta tell you this is a life long dream fulfilled at this moment. Oh yeah. I waited for almost a year to. I've. I've Gino who asked to come on the show. I had to ask them to come on the show today. Josh. What's funny is we had them both on our show. I know. Snyder them. Now I would have thought, maybe you want or maybe show to that. They would have had us on what episode is this? Like four hundred episode already to and all that here on the bigger pockets. Money podcast. We don't do tit for tat shows we do don't we interview people that we find worthy and after forty, I'm not. We have run out of people that we find worthy. So you guys had on opening your schedule and we thought we'd bring you on. Exactly. Right. Did not tat on our show and nor do they continue to do it on the show now, but I found worthy and I'm insulted, but that's okay. That's what was to show and the bigger pockets podcast of all time. It was not yours. Scott's it's up. There got is above every other episode, the one that interviews, Brandon, the one that interviews, Josh, except I think episode two hundred was above Scotts. That was about me. It wasn't it no episode. One hundred was about you episode too hard with how to step by step guide to buying your investment property. Thanks for remember anyone. Familiar with bigger pockets knows that we all have real estate as an investment vehicle. Today's guests are the original host of the original bigger pockets. Real estate investing podcast, Josh Jordan and Brandon Turner, who we have not yet introduced because they won't stop talking. Doing Espy today. They would places and sit in the hot seat. So I thank you for coming onto show. I'm a huge fan. I'm excited to be on your show. Scott show, not so much yours. This'll be the forty second best show we've ever had. Well, it'll be the second best show until forty three comes out. Either huge fan as you and I hope that comes across as I lovingly to use you for the next forty minutes to two hours. I know that I love real estate. I know that we all I know why I love real estate and I wanted to why you guys love it too, and why you recommend it as an investment vehicle over things like stocks or bonds or gold or bitcoin. But even before we get to that, I wouldn't know about your experiences with money. Where did your money journey start out and what got you to where you are now? What got you to real estate? So when I when I was a kid, my parents were entrepreneurs, so I got to work at my mom's store. I got to see what it was like, see how hard she worked and see what it was like to actually make money. It wasn't this, hey, by parents work in, I really don't understand it. They just bring money. It was, you know, I can see what they were doing on the day to day, which I think really helps a young kid get an appreciation for the time value of money, the value of labor, the value of effort. We got allowance and I would save my allowance. I, I was the kid who did not like to spend it on Pokemon like Scott. So I, I say guy, it's gotten to poke him on Scott, poke him on, have you seen his desk? I scored away all my money. That needs to be fair when Josh was a kid. Pokemon wasn't invented yet. This is true. This is true. I did waste my bunny on transformers, Lynn, John. When Josh for the kid like houses weren't invented yet. There's a lot of things that we're in bed. My social security number is four. Oh gosh. No, everybody's gonna. Steal your identity home script. Anyway. So. I save my money and I don't know. My parents didn't particularly teach me, hey, you know, save all your money. It just was something that I did, and I think it was because I wanted to save up for bigger toys. And what happened was when I had enough for big enough toys so I would keep saving. And then when I had bigger toys, it was like, oh, I wanna car, and then I didn't really. I was able to get a crappy car from my parents. And then when it was that I was like, oh, I want an apartment and then I used the money. So I was Lee saved and saved, kept my allowance, put it away in the Bank. And by the time I I grew up in New York, right? So New York is like a money Centric culture. And so everybody's in the market and everybody knows about the market on Wall Street. And that's kinda like the thing that it's like this motivator. Everybody knows it. It's part of the culture. So I think I was seventeen or eighteen. I ended up interning at a Wall Street brokerage and learned about how stockbrokers who don't really exist anymore today, work. With clients and how trades or it can how, how evaluate companies and things like that? I don't know. I just being in New York. I was always interested in money. I think one of the biggest influences was one day I was in the bookstore, and I know we still have those today, but I walked into a bookstore. I, I saw the magazine shelf, this copy of Forbes, and it was the four hundred richest people in America or the hundred richest people in America addition. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. And I sat there on the floor flipping through and they were these little stories of these people and like how they took like a small potato farming became the largest potato farmer in America, and it was inspiring to see people go from zero to something. So for me, again, my beginnings and money revolved around entrepreneurship and my excitement around it came from just being inspired by these people who took something small and turned it into something, magnificent yoga, you get motivated, you have you, you're interested in how these folks are building something. On nothing. You have built something pretty incredible out of nothing. Can you walk us through that story with with money? I know that you have a very, very fast in terms of different avenues. You try to at your career and all that kind of stuff. But you want us through that a little bit about the creation of bigger pockets. Absolutely. And then obviously we need to give time to Brandon, not a lot. I mean, he's if you look at his beard, it's it's. The beard is gross. I know, hey, dude, if you communicate here, it's a beautiful. I I'd like to point out the Josh has his little stubby, nothing bid. You should look at this on YouTube to look at Josh is not even close to Brandon's beard. There's there's even graze in there. So so I did this Wall Street thing. I went off to college. I was definitively privileged in that my family took care of college, so I did not have student loans. I beyond a shadow of a doubt am absolutely privileged for that. I mean, that is extremely challenging for a huge swath of people, and you know the system well, we could rant and talk about that a whole another day. But anyway, so when I worked at this firm, I actually took money and I started investing in the stock market, and so I started investing before I was in college began to learn, and I took what I had saved away. I, you know, every allowance. I had jobs throughout the summers. I worked for my parents growing up, so I, it's stored away a lot of money. And by the time I was done with college, six figures saved away between the jobs and turning multiplying it in the market post college. I ended up. I was a stock trader. I became a prop traitor. So I traded professionally, and I was not the best prop trader in the world. I left that. But really, I always was as Brandon and Scott lovingly like to say cheap. And so really the was. I think that we use other words cheap well behind that. Kaycee frugal. Then you're not always. So the frugality is always been on myself, right? Like I'm frugal on myself. I tend to be generous to other people that are not me. I saved this money up post college. I did this. I moved in with my parents again, I got in the entertainment business, and you know when I moved out to California, I said, well, I've got this money. You know what it's time to invest in real estate now rewind a little bit. When I was in college. My roommate Nive were obsessed with real estate. We always talk about like how the math on real estate and how we instead of paying rent to the guy who's apartment we're living in should by the building. We just didn't conceptualize that we could borrow money as you know, twenty year olds to buy a multiunit property. Now, if I knew what I knew now, then I would have done it fast forward. I'm in l. a. I get a real estate license, I started helping people buy real estate, didn't really love that ended up in education and a my brother reaches out to me and says, hey, Josh. You know, I started to buy these properties and he showed me the numbers and the numbers were awesome. And I was like, wow, you know these numbers eclipse what I could potentially even be getting in the market right now. And so I'm gonna go and buy some property. And so I did I, you know, I flew in the midwest bottom entre properties, and I should have been doing excellent. And over time owning these properties in not the greatest neighborhoods, thousands of miles away with bad management turned out to really be challenging and ultimately bigger pockets was born out of this. But for me, money has always been a means to an end. I've always saved more than I've spent. And I've always regretted that in a lot of cases, I've always looked back and said, you know, I wish I had spent money on certain things and enjoyed myself a little more with the money. So anyway, I mean, that's kind of long insured. I could answer millions specific questions, but you know, in broad strokes that's me and not as interesting as the bearded man. And then you started bigger. Kits and built it into a million member community now of fourteen years one through five million. Now a now, my job is to help people learn to be responsible with money and learn how to build wealth through money, and, and I love that, you know, teaching people. I mean, all four of us, it is the passion of the four of us to educate people about money, and there's nothing more exciting, right? I mean, like being able to talk to somebody and then you know, having them come back six months a year, five years, fifteen years later saying, you help change my life. Yeah, I love those. And I, I know I've already just said it, but I say it one more time like like we all in the bigger pockets community. Oh, you a lot because you put this thing together over fourteen years with love and sweat and tears, and I don't know if there's any blood, but all that kind of stuff. And the reason we're here so many people are investing in real estate because of that you put in. So that financial journey, that background was the foundation for this incredible company that we have. And the last thing I'll throw in here is. As my parents absolutely played a role in this. I mean my parents were never of the mindset of, hey, go and be flashy. Hey, go and show off. Hey, go and do this. I mean they were successful. We were, you know, we were middle and upper middle class, and the kids in the neighborhood were driving fancy cars to school and I got my first car was the one thousand nine hundred eighty two Pontiac Firebird ooh, the kit car. You know it was. It was a nice and born in followed by the one thousand nine hundred eighty seven Audi, five thousand which would spit water at us. It was falling apart so much show for us. It was doesn't matter. It's not about flash. It's not about fancy clothes. It's about just using your money for experiences and living a good quality life. It's not about show on the outside rand in where did your money start? Did you grow up rich and getting sports cars and Audi th all the time I did. I actually grew up in a billion dollar household. All right. So my money story, I'll be much more terse than than Josh here. Thinking my parents taught me three lessons with money. I one that we don't talk about money, right? So my family, I was raised in a very religious household. Money is the root of all evil, which is a misquote of the passage, but money is a, you know, is evil. We don't talk about it. We don't have conversations about it. You never asked what somebody makes that kind of thing, right? Richest bad, but by parents, Dan said, money's bad, right? That was the feeling we don't talk about money, rich people, you kind of make fun of them. Right? So that's the first thing they taught me second thing. Money is a responsibility, right? So like it is something you you work for, you go to college for you work hard. You save your money. They got a piggy-bank early on, but very much the traditional go to college work for forty years set aside money, and you'll be fine when you're eighty. And you can be the richest person in the retirement home. If rich was actually that important, which it wasn't. Right. So that's the second day money's responsibility. And third, which I think is the biggest lesson I learned from my parents as you can't take it with you. Parents were very, very generous. I mean, they're blue collar. My dad's a meat cutter. My mom did in-home day-care so they were like we didn't make much money, but whatever we did make, they would give back in terms of cheap vacations. We would drive across the country all the time, and they really believe strongly that experience is what life is made up of not how many zeros are at the end of your Bank account. And I, I love that that I took that I think from them. So anyway, that was the response. I mean, that was the kind of three things from them. And yeah, I got out of college and was supposed to go to law school. I started studying for it because that's kind of what was expected of me. And I remember I found I found real estate. I read a book on it. I was like, this sounds like the best thing ever. I bought a house and then I decided I'm going to go to law school at dropped job that whole plan and told my dad, I'm gonna be a real estate investor, and he said, I was crazy. I was going to be homeless at you. Use the word stupid in there and you're gonna lose everything. He said, what are you going to do of tenants? Don't pay rent, Brandon? What are you going to do? Then you're not. Able to afford it. And now it's like all you're right. Okay. Well, I guess I'll go back to the law school idea. 'cause I, I didn't know what to do. So I went to Google and typed in what to do when tendons don't pay rent, and I found this little, I'll call it nano attractive rinky Dink blog or ninety four at the time called bigger pockets. And I found bigger pockets of the time. And I found little articles and blog. I mean four. There wasn't gonna blog at the time. I don't think that word existed, but forum posts in real estate. And so I was like, all right people are doing this. And so that's when I jumped in. And so two buying real estate. I I can I ask a quick question Mindy really by. Green. Yeah, he is. No, I've a serious question when you bought that first house, how did you buy the first house? Because you talk about your money journey, but you didn't talk about how you got the money to buy the first house. So this is though seven. They gave loans to anybody who had a heartbeat, so they're like, you know, I, I remember the phone call, call the lender and they're like, okay, we'll Gibb job. I was like, well, sort of I just started working to cold stone creamery, making eight dollars an hour. Like how's your credit? I don't have any credit. I've never used it in my life. Well, what about like you have any like assets? No, nothing at all. And actually I've got a lot of student loan debt. Okay, great. You're proof for half a million dollar loan. No, no, no, nothing. Just go ahead. We. And that's market crash. Yeah, exactly. That was seven or maybe even end of those six. I bought that first house. I actually think I needed to grand down and not just came from, I think I borrowed it even for my dad as can I borrow two grand and your dad, who would be crazy to be an investor gave you money this? Well, the blending. My dad came around and today he is a business partner of mine in a couple of deals. And I've actually like one of those deals we sold and we we moved on. And now he just gets like fixed return income basically investor. Now with me that helped him retire early, which is kind of cool. It's kind of a neat like turnaround. We're now like his investment in me help fund his retirement three years earlier, and he could have normally done it. So anyway came full circle. So you bought this house getting a low net yet? No business getting. How does your you walk us through how you made some money on that deal on that particular one? Yeah, short answer is my mom is a garage sale, genie, right? So like I was raised every Saturday go to garage sales. I watched my mom negotiate. So all I knew about real estate at the time. I, I didn't know anything about that house except for by the cheapest thing possible negotiate lower, right. Just garage sale style. So at the time I literally told the agent friend that I had like when I was looking at like just find the cheapest house in the area, what's that? And we went looked at it all the cheapest house in the area. I was like, all right, we'll buy that. So I bought it. And of course the cheapest house needed a lot of work. So I just got. A book from Home Depot, one-two-three home improvement. I still have it today and I learned how to do everything. Yeah, everything in house. So I fixed it up over the course of a year sold it and may twenty grand. And I was like, wow, that was way better than a job. And so that's when I got into real estate because I was way better. Wow. The hours of scooping ice cream. Does it take to make. A lot of our number colts cold stone is where you sing for tips, right? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, right now cold stone. Clearly did not know once or twice. I don't think they ever sang to me though because you're cheap. Maybe they didn't want for you because you look like Adam abeam we'll have. They should for me. I might have given them a tip, but you know, you gotta tip first. Then they sing. It's like they take old songs like what it was like fake you've for your dollar. Listen to Toller anyway. It was stuff like that was fantastic and. No more tips came to you after like a year after I got there, that individual Kohl's don't went under. So I don't know. I'm gonna contributed to that. I don't wanna hear that tall guy saying, okay, okay. So we have not even discussed why we have Josh and Brandon on the show today. But I believe that Josh, Brandon, have both written a new book called how to invest in real estate, and we're interviewing them today on our show because we all really love real estate, and we want to present this as an option for building wealth, which is kind of the whole point of bigger Puckett's money Randan. Can you tell me why you think real estate is the best thing in the world? Well, I think it's the second best thing. The best thing is like speculating on bitcoin. Okay. We're gonna speculate a bit. Okay. Collectively losing bitcoin. I never put it time. However, I wanna make it. I wanna make a claim here. I made a bitcoin. I've lost zero dollars in bitcoin and bitcoin zero dollars. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, six months ago I made a video for bigger pockets called bitcoin is a stupid horrible investment. Next, the next day bitcoin crashed like that was like the thirty or forty percent of the day. So I'm going to claim full hundred credit. Tanking bitcoin the for anyway, who lost money and bitcoin. His name is Brandon. There's so much intrinsic value in these quotes bitcoin and bitcoin and all the other ones. Right. Dotes coin. It's the way the go. All right. Okay, branded. But thank because why is real estate your second favorite investment? Like what I love real estate. I love having the control over. I don't have any control over what the guys that Enron do. I wish I did because then all those people wouldn't have lost their money, but I know exactly what's going on in my real estate investments and I'm the boss of them. So Brandon. Brandin. Why do you like real estate? I like it because I am not a smart man, and yet I can figure out real estate. I have no idea how most things that you guys talk about on the money show work, just don't get it like it's like stocks and mutual funds. And just over my head, I just don't know. I don't have the attention span for it, but real estate. Like I understand this is a house. I can hit it with a hammer. I can rent it out for this amount. I have this expenses and I make money like I totally get that. And that can control how it does when the market tanks. I can like improve it a little bit. I can manage better because I had that control, right? If I want to get more technical about it, there are four wealth generated the real estate that alike, there's cash flow, which means extra money every month, like making a rain, right? I can go spend it on. I don't know. Starbucks appreciation properties tend to go up in time a up in value over time. That's not always true. Of course, in short term runs. But in long-term real estate generally rises, there is an tax benefits. Yep. Tax benefits when you won't real estate like you pay wireless taxes. Typically, I'm not a CPA, so take that with a grain of salt, but typically you pay way less with. Taxes and the loan pay down. This might be the coolest part about real estate, I think, or one of the most like under talked about cool parts. Basically. Let me let me give you a story of how the loan pay down works. So I bought a four plex for my daughter. Rosie, the week she was born. This is a cool strategy. Any parent out there can do this. Thank you. I bought a four plex the week. Rosie was born and you can do this. Anytime between your kid is zero and five years old. I mean, you could do it anytime, but it really works well when they're zero to five, you buy a property any property at all. It can't be a bad deal be by any decent deal. Anytime between their kids zero and five years old and you put them on a fifteen year mortgage. What I mean by that is the property gets paid off over fifteen years. It doesn't even have to cash will you don't need cash flow? You don't even need appreciation. You don't even need tax benefits. If nothing else, if you just flat broke even in fifteen years, that properties paid off. So let's say you buy two hundred thousand dollar house, right? In my case about a roughly one hundred and sixty thousand dollars into this four plex it'll be paid off in fifteen years from right now in fifteen years. What's it going to happen there? Roses going to college and that property should based on just an average in appreciation of three percent. Shit be worth between two hundred and fifty and three hundred thousand dollars and I'll oh nothing on it. So just the tenants paying off the loan over fifteen years now covered my kids entire college educa-. And I'll do that for every kid I have. So then you can do with the quit school about this is you have several options with your exit strategy, right? So you could instead of selling the place in paying taxes to pay college education, you can refinance and put it on a thirty year. And now these kids go to college. Another tip eat the whole cycle, right? Pretty much. Have your entire generation for the next year has paid college paid for with one property, each wealth. Yup. Interracial wealth. Anyway, if that's why like real estate, the four wealth generators and of course leverage. I know there's like ways to buy margin. But besides that, like typically if I have a thousand dollars, most people go by thousand dollars in stock, but with real estate, if I have a thousand dollars, I can buy ten thousand dollars, fifty thousand hundred thousand. I mean it depends on how how far you wanna leverage, but real estate, you can replace the cash needed with creativity. That is one of my favorite things with stocks and those things you can't do it as much, but real estate, you can literally replace cash with creativity. Your risk levels increase. I think dramatic. When you know when you go on margin stocks. Yeah. Unwise move for ninety nine percent of the population yet. So brand you invest in your east, you started in a pretty low cost market, right? So what if my markets more expensive than that, what are the differences or how is she approach it differently? If you're a expensive market that may be expects more appreciation over time. One thing we we actually talked about this in the book a little bit, but Josh something he said all the time right within like a two hour drive of your house, like almost everywhere in the country is a deal, the deal. You can find something usually within two. I mean, if you live in bay area, I know guys that live in downtown San Francisco that are investing an hour and a half outside the city, and they're getting cash flowing deal. So there's actually a coupla three options when you live in an expensive city. Right? You can either one find out what works in your market because some kind of real estate works anywhere. Number two, you can invest where somewhere else, right? Where the whatever you wanna do works or three. You can sit on the couch and watch TV every night and wait until you're sixty. Because you know you have a lot of excuses. So like those are kind of your. Three options stars. You can watch dancing with the stars every night and the bachelor and find out who gets the rose. No, I I think it's great by. So I think also like a lot of people are like, throw their hands up there. There's no deals in the market up. Great. No competition for me, right. Yeah, exactly. Look like Scott. I mean, Scott, Mindy, live in in the Denver market, and you guys have very competitive Eric market, both of them invest, right, Josh, like you live in Denver, you're able to buy stuff. You know, I lived in Washington, a super cheap, and now I just bought a triplex in Hawaii, which is the most expensive property of overbought. So like you can buy real estate anywhere. It's just the strategies change a little bit which to come full circle, which we talked about. Exactly. That's that's the whole point. And I I know you didn't ask me to play yet, but I'm going to because this is Mindy show, and you know you're gonna. Let me do a remedy. You can do anything. Okay. All right. Good. So here's the idea. We wanted to write a book and I'm not gonna spend much on this, but we wanted to write a book where when people say, how do I invest in real estate, we wanted to give them a book that said, start here. We actually titled the book for a long time start here within we change how to invest in real estate because it's a little bit more like. So obvious with the books about, but really it's like here before you go and decide you want rentals or flipping or expensive market or chief market, you need to get a full landscape. So start here with how to mess in real estate. That's the book. I'll tell you all about it. When you ask me if I ever get asked the question again, we'll we'll see how this this is for this is for Josh. This is Josh and both of you if you want to chime in on it. So suppose that I am earning a high income or like a moderate high income, like one hundred thousand dollars a year in a medium city. Right? And I wanted invest in real estate while working with a fulltime job. How does that compare? What should I be prepared to do differently than say what Brandon did when he was working eight dollars an hour, cold stone creamery with no credit. Right. What are the, what are the differences in expectation that you should have in those two kind of different scenarios? I don't think there's any difference despite what the late night TV guys will tell you. There's not any single one way to build wealth using real estate. So I can't tell you what is the right way for you in the median neighbor. Hood, you know, making one hundred k. I can't tell you what to do because even if what I tell you to do is affective and works, it may not work for you because of your circumstances. Right. Scott, you may have three kids and a mom who's in the hospital, and you know, you may have to work a second job because of that, and you may have other exigent circumstances. And so like the strategy that I might have told you is the right strategy or the right tactic is not necessarily going to work for you. So we break things down and not to plug the book, but I have to, you know, we've got this thing called the ultimate beginner's guide to real estate investing Brennan. I wrote this thing five six years ago and it was this basic primer on, you know, we we looked at the different niches and the different strategies. You know, you can flip a house, you can Abidin hold the house. You can wholesale house. You can do the same with commercial property with mobile homes with all these different things. Right? And, and we said, okay, let's expand upon that and really dive in deep and that's. Where this book came from. But in order for us to give you an answer, I mean, we just need a heck of a lot more information and I would say a before you cut me off that it's not for anyone other than you to determine. So what you need to really do is stop and map out who the heck are you like? What are your inflows? What are your outflows current and future and planned? What do you like doing? Do you want to be active? Do you want to be passive? Do you want something local? Do you want something distant? Do you want to be managing it yourself? Do you want somebody else to Majid Yuliana just invest money or do want to invest time in sweat equity? I mean, there's a lot of decisions that go into what you're gonna do as a real estate investor. This book helps you find the answers to those decisions. We don't tell you the answer. Nobody could tell you the answer despite again, what some of the claims of the get rich quick is, are you the only you can answer those questions? Once you answer them, then you can start to methodically make a plan to help you go forth towards. I deal and then you know, tools like bigger pockets are fantastic. In fact, bigger pockets is the only place you should go. To help you help you with this. There's really no need to go anywhere else. But anyway, does that help? I mean, I don't think there's an answer. I think I phrase my question poorly. What I was trying to get at was, is this book going to be helpful to abroad range of people in a variety of situations? And it sounds like answers? Yes. And the information in the book is going to allow people to figure out how to map out that path that was gonna old. If you're broke a rich, it doesn't matter if you're looking to buy your first deal. This book will help you get the foundation. You need to start making decisions. You need to make in order to go forth. And then there's, for example, if you don't have a lot of money like Brandon cult stone, we don't do a huge deep dive on every creative strategy for investing with no money down. Well, that's why you go and buy the book on investing with no in low money down written by Brandon Turner. So this is a really is a broad book that answers a heck of a lot will help you find the answers to a lot of questions. And I think one of the coolest things, Brandon. I think we agree on this and I'm gonna shut up is we've got over forty stories in this book from successful real estate investors that have all been on our podcast. And I think the coolest thing about that is in one of those stories you will relate. You will find somebody that we interviewed that who story is written there that you'll be able to relate to. And you might say, you know, I kind of like how they went about doing this. I think I'm gonna try going the same approach. You know, we talk a lot about the story, Josh, and I told us before you buy may have heard in another connotation, but I really liked the story. There's like three blind hikers walking through a jungle, right? Like they're blind. I can't say anything. They're walking and all of a sudden they get stopped by something in their path, right? And the first blind hiker says, well, you know, what is this thing? And he feel about and he says, you know, it feels like a rope is a hanging rope, and I feel it, but I can't get passed in the second one says, are you stupid? It's clearly a gigantic leather wall. It's a huge wall. It's hard, but kind of thought. And the third guy says. You guys are both nuts. This is clearly a tree trunk that I can wrap my arms all the way round, and they sit there arguing about it. Argument are you in until the elephant gets up and walks away, right? So like this is my Naji for real estate is because when somebody says, no real estate is this no real estate is this, no, I'm a real estate investor and I do this. It confuses a lot of newbies right because everyone has a different perspective of this giant elephant that we call real estate. And so the problem with like, I mean, yes, you should read real estate books. You listen to podcasts, but the problem with anything specific is that you're just getting one part of the elephant. And so we wanted to say what we wanted to step back and say, hey, let's look at the whole elephant. This is what the elephant is. And I mean whether or not you read it in a book like ours or just listened to a lot of podcast, read a bunch of really, you need to get an overarching view that way. Like Scott your question, right? If you're the hundred thousand dollar a year person living in Denver or you're the eight dollar an hour guy living in, you know, podunk, Washington, you can figure out how to make it work because real estate works. For every person in every area. Anytime the question is, how changes in shifts. And so until you understand the entire elephant, you're always going to struggle. And that's a preview of the book by the way, because we do talk about the elephant in the room in our introduction. I'd never heard that story until I read the book. Oh, nice. I like that story because it's kind of true real estate. I'm a real estate investor. Okay. Obviously, you're a landlord because I'm coming from my personal experience bias of, I'm only a landlord or, oh, you must be flipping houses because that's what I do too. That's what I like about this book is, hey, here's all the different ways to invest in real estate. You might like the idea of real estate, but you don't want that fabled two AM toilet call. How many have you gotten that call in your whole life branded? Once one ever. One. I got a two AM call about your house burning. I was I was through toilet. Yeah, that's. Burns your house down here, man. That was fun. Yeah, we're about this now. People don't realize how maybe it's pretty awful when to help her. It was kind of. I mean, we took it all in stride. I mean, it was like, yeah, I got. So the story was this real quick back. I'll tell you like thirty seconds. I had attendant. We were evicting him. He stopped paying rent. This was a mistake. Tenant. I shouldn't have put him in the first place. It was my very first tenant. He lived there for a number of years ended up getting into allegedly getting into the drugs, and then as he was moving out, finally, like today's before the fiction, he had all his personal stuff out, but he had left probably I think it was like two or three tons of garbage in the house. He wasn't cleaned out. So instead he set a box on the stove, accidentally air quotes, turned on the top, the element burner and then left. And then of course, the house burns and luckily the neighbor saw it was able to call the police and shut it down and it was an accident. It was ruled in accident and anyway, insurance to care of it. That's the great thing about real estate to write like everyone's was like the worst case scenario is like what? If your house burns down. Okay. Well, insurance takes here, but. Okay. Oh scenario somebody's in the house and when the house. Okay. You get the idea what I'm saying. Right? But I got that message from the tenant who was like, hey, you need call me. Your house is on fire that night when we were all the four of us that he did it, he was like, gets on, let's on fire. Yeah, weird. I don't know how that happen. Anyway, moving on what? What's your opinion on the current state of the market? Right now? It's been going up for like ten years straight and everyone's talking about cycles. You're seeing posts pretty frequently on bigger pockets. People commenting on the market. What's your take on where we are in the market in how that should affect affect strategy? If this was the stock market? What's your strategy? Your strategy is it doesn't matter. You invest in the market, you don't sit and wait and time the market. If it's the housing market, I think the strategies somewhat different, but maybe not. I mean, really, it depends on the property. The strategy that you're looking at. You know if price appreciation has started to slow down dramatically during a market where flipping houses becomes a lot riskier if you're in a market where rents begin to decline, you're in a market where you know you wanna be very aware of buying into a buy and hold situation, or at least you wanna make sure that you buy the property cheap enough that you can take. A decline of x percent and sustain it. So it really does depend on your strategy. But I think the key is to be aware of what the market's doing and when I say the market, I don't mean what the market of real estate in the United States is doing because that's kind of irrelevant you wanna keep an eye on it. You want to keep your ears to the ground on interest rates. You wanna know what's happening in the global economy in broad terms because if you have a mass massive recession at some point, people are gonna start losing jobs and they're gonna stop paying rent across the board, and that will affect you even if you have seen a pocket of growth in your city. For example, you know, Amazon moves into your city. You're gonna see a huge influx of people. You know that micro economic factor is going to determine things even if the rest of the economy's going to hell, you're probably in a fairly stable market there, right? You know, huge, huge manufacturer, huge company comes in and brings a ton of joy. Jobs. So I think the key is to keep an eye on what's happening broadly, but then what's happening in your city, you know, Denver as an example, because some of us live there has seen dramatic growth of the last bunch of years and a ton of businesses have moved in. Real estate. Prices have shot up in kind appreciation has been fantastic rents. Everything's gone up. Is it gonna stop as a top. He feels a little toppy. So if it feels toppy you better be a little more careful with that next deal yet. Maybe you wanna put a little more money down. Maybe you want to make sure your instead of using the seventy percent rule on a flip baby, padded, even more. So I think that's how it would come into play. I'd love to hear Brandon steak on it. Sure. I mean, I think Josh, you hit the nail on the head, right? Like you wanna buy like when the economy's doing like word today, where it feels like maybe it's top right? You have a couple of choices. You can sit down and just watch TV for the rest of your life. Right. Next to always be afraid, watch dancing with the stars. Yep. Or you could just go out and get really good deals like Scott, that's something you told me once and I really like the way you phrase that you said something like, I'm gonna buy really good deals in this market when the market crashes them into by really good deals when the market rises again, but I really good deals when the market to the top. I'm gonna write really good deals. I'm just going to buy really good deals no matter what because over the long term that should work out. Well, in my favorite, I'm gonna buy good, solid investments, no matter what it's kind of like, what's the word dollar cost averaging with? Is that the right analogy, right? Yeah, I was gonna go by continually and over time I'm going to be fine. So for example, it does change little bit, like Josh said, right if I was gonna flip houses right now, I would make sure that either one I can get in and out super quick. I would not right now personally do a flip. I was gonna take me twelve months unless I had another exit strategy, for example. Like if I could turn it into a rental and it would actually cash flow or break even. Okay. Well, then I might flip it because worst case scenario I turned into a rental and I waited out and do the next one. I don't want to set myself up to a point where the only option is bankruptcy, like that's what I'm going to avoid the. Last thing I'll say I'll shut up is like in this part of the market, even if you don't want to invest in, that's fine. Maybe you want to wait until the market drops an okay, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't be trying right now anyway, because right now, if you get really, really all the time, unlike live webinars that I do is like I believe one of perhaps the number one greatest skill person can have in real estate is knowing how to run the numbers on a deal. Because if you're good at the numbers, you can find good deals. You can know what the bad deals are. You can find partners easier. You can raise money easier when you know how to find really good deals, but are you going to start learning how to find good deals when the market crashes or do you want to start right now? So you'll be ready to jump in when everything goes KMart, blue light special, so start now start running numbers, start money. When people start interacting start rate, you know, like having those conversations now and who knows? Maybe you'll find a good deal in this market. Great. And if not, you'll be really ready to do it once the market corrects a little bit today k. mart and Hawaii, they have old K-Mart buildings in Hawaii. They have to now. In writing the one by me into something pretty cool. So we're actually, we had a guy on the podcast on the bigger pockets by a few months ago who took an old KMart building that had been sitting empty forever put in a couple of million dollars a self storage, and I can't remember. I think he made like ten million dollars in equity on this thing because he like bought it for like three million, three million into it. Now it's worth like twenty one million just self storage from an okay. My billion again, like different strategies, work in different areas for different people at different Neil. Find what works in your market or go somewhere with a strategy dancer and what they don't chime in with this is that pure bigger pockets money. Our goal is to Bill just general good financial habits that support real estate investing. Right? And if you just have a strong personal fans position spending less than you make stockpiling cash. Right. That's a good defense mechanism against the market downturn as well and of itself. And I think that that's a big component of that. What you're doing outside of real estate investing can impact your portfolio. If you're forced to withdraw or sell because of your week, personal financial position that can put you in a bad spa. Hot in a financial downturn rather than a position of ability to explain opportunity. There's a book out there where the guy talked about different ways to be smart with money. I think it was called set for life this book. Oh yeah. Yeah, it's pretty good. This is Scott's book. It's a brilliant fantastic book about money, but like I think outside of even like the, what do you do on that event? I think one of the things we talked about in how to invest in real estate is is money, and this is a big component of bigger pockets, right? We talk about money because you have to understand how money works in order to have enough money saved away to put as a down payment, or at least you have to be savvy enough with money to be able to go get alone and things like that. But Brennan loves these triangles that we've put in this book, and we've created this model about how the typical person deals with their money and the typical person at the top of the triangle. Imagine an upside down pyramid. The vast majority of their money goes to fund money. Income goes into fun money than the variable expenses fix expenses, the donations followed by the savings, right? That's the average person average person that I know the first thing their their money goes to is all the crap they want. You know the. Close drink in the bar Mendis tossing it in the air pow. So now if anyone listening has read a book called the richest man in Babylon, I know Scott has Mindy has Brennan has. It's one of my favorite books. One of the best books I think ever written top. I don't know. I don't know how to read yet, so that's well that explains a few things. You should buy a manual on how to cut a beard. And in this book you talk about taking that income, and the first thing that you had to do is pay yourself. So before you go and buy all the fancy stuff that you want to buy to keep up with all the neighbors and flash around is you got to pay yourself. You take the first dollar and put it to savings and you set a budget, you know, would something commensurate with what you can do. If you're making thirty thousand dollars, it's not going to be ten thousand dollars. It might be fifty bucks, but start somewhere and put money away every single month into an account for savings and pay yourself first. And then where you can put that, you could put that in one of a number of banks, you put an ally, you put it on CAT. You put any of these banks pay high interest rates, and you could start making money on your money, which is really cool. But the point is start paying yourself first. So at the top of the upside down triangle in the world of the richest man in Babylon, the first payment is savings and investment. Wants then donations or fixed expenses variable. And at the very, very bottom is fun money, right? That model is a model that will help you get to that first investment. Why do you think so many people live paycheck to paycheck far too many people? Well, I think the answer has changed over time. I would say today, unfortunately, far too many people are caught up on social media, seeing what their friends are doing and seeing what celebrities are doing and seeing what influencers are doing. And if you're on social media, if you're on Instagram or Facebook or Twitter, whatever, and you're watching the people, you know, and the people, you aspire to be doing all this stuff and wearing the stuff and having experiences, and you're seeing it yourself and you're like, oh, well, the all the coup guys are doing and I gotta do it to you start doing that and all of a sudden, now you're chasing everyone else, right? One of the most important thing somebody taught me early on was. Life's not a race. You really are not racing other people. You have to live your life for yourself, and it's really hard for most people to do that. Unfortunately. So stop worrying about everybody, stop worrying about what Scott's doing and Brandon, and Mindy, and Josh, like where irrelevant to you, worry about you start putting money away for you start saving shutdown social media for a little bit and stop letting this stuff warp your brain and influence your brain as to what you have to do to keep up with the Joneses. I think that's a big part of what's happening today. I think there's another subset of people who just don't have the education yet who don't fully understand it. School does not teach this stuff. We do not learn this stuff in school. A lot of people's parents never learned how to be financially responsible, so they're not gonna teach their kids. And for me, I, I'm a huge advocate for schools going back to adding financial education. We have to teach us in schools because I think if we. To teach people young enough, we're going to get there now. Obviously, the very poorest of the poor, the folks who are really struggling that's obviously a whole different story. But I'd say the vast majority of people, you know, you have people paycheck to paycheck, making millions of dollars. You have people paycheck to paycheck, making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. It doesn't matter your your class. It doesn't matter your financial status, it's training. Yeah, I want to piggyback on that real quick. So you had remember the Harry Potter movie like the prequel, the fantastic beasts and where to find them. So in this in the in the movie, there's this creature and I don't, honestly, I feel bad. I don't know how to pronounce it to their Oakham your or something like that. I mean, I don't alchemy so this creature is like one of the fantastic beasts that is involved in the movie. And the idea behind this animal is that it fits in whatever container it whole like it's in. Right. So it could fit in a tea kettle, which does or could fill entire room, right. I believe I most people that paycheck to paycheck is because their finances are like an academy. Right? So however much they make it naturally rise thing, Josh coined the term ago, income creep rights alike are expenses rise to whatever we make. So if you make thirty thousand a year, you probably spend about thirty thousand maybe twenty nine maybe thirty one. But as soon as you double that to sixty thousand, you probably spend fifty nine or sixty one thousand a year. Most Americans spend a little bit more than they make right. You make one hundred thousand. I mean I know people making half a million a year or million a year and there were living paycheck to paycheck. They're broke because people tend to fill their life like an. And so if you want to contain that, you just need a smaller container, which is where I mean everyone hates the the b word right budget, but like that's essentially what you're doing is you're saying I'm going to put in it. So yeah, haven't put my money into a and there's not to be budget. It could be a just a financial plan. If that's in the book we include like a personal financial plan where you're saying, I'm going to tell my money where it goes rather than just letting it be an alchemy and fill whatever space it's at. I think it's a great analogy, and I think that's exactly what we're all about here. A bigger pockets money spend less than you earn. Invest the difference and do it in something that's that's active as possible. Speaking of containers though, where you live the that transition right now, speaking of containers, when I wrote that book set for life that you mentioned earlier, I invented a term called house hacking, I patented it and all that kind of stuff. Never. And I wanna know your opinion on this because I thought this was one of the best ways around to get started in real estate investing all want to know what you guys opinion on that is for folks that are because a lot of folks are looking to buy their first deal. This might be an option that would be appealing to them getting their portfolio started. I'll defer to you is the man who coined the term, not the man who invented it by the way. Let's let's talk about that discrepancy. There's all sorts of terms out there in the world of real estate investing. Some have been coined by people like Brandon and some have been coined by gurus and some, but this stuff is all existed before like, yeah, so we didn't invent anything. He didn't make it up existing. We just going to term to describe what it was that people were doing. So don't ever be fooled that like just because he coined it on guy, did it? Yeah, it's been happening for a very long time so coined it. That's what Scott personality disorder Cleveland article came out way before your book did. Let me talk about how all right. So when I bought that very first house, my story right way back in the day about that house, I, I lived in it. I fixed it up with the one, two, three Home Depot book, right? And then I sold at twenty grand. The next thing I did is I still didn't know much about real estate, but I was like a duplex was for sale in my area. It was two houses on one lot. So there's like a two bedroom, one bath, and then a one bedroom, one bath. And I was like, hey, if I bought this property I could live in 'cause they need a place to live. I sold my house. I could live in the back house like the smaller one and that can rent the front went out. So I did that. I lived in the back rent to the front when my mortgage payment, including taxes and insurance, and everything was like six, twenty five a month. And I remember my tenants walking over like the first day which I shouldn't have collected rent by hand. But I did. They came over and AB six hundred and fifty dollars in cash. And I realize like all of a sudden like this pithy like I'm living for free like I'm living in a house that I own and I'm not paying anything. So when you do that, you now have the ability to, I mean, not not that you have to live free, but you can leave. I know people doing how sack. Gain like a Maui, like I'm actually doing it right now like you've still here, but you can do it in pretty much any market, but it either let's have cheap or free. And by doing that, you can get in with a very low down payment loan like three, three and a half percent. Sometimes even zero percent down if you like an USDA loaner VA loan, and you get like training wheels that you learn how to invest while you're kind of doing it and you're living there and maybe best of all you can save money because you're not spending so much on your house and expense what's it. What Scott talks about in set for life is like your housing is probably your biggest expense. So when you can eliminate that have how much more money you have to invest in something else. So that's why I think how accurate is a fantastic choice there you well, all right, drought. They don't really know how to onto this. I know site side note that duplex later on, we find out your people take pictures of it. Occasionally, I thought it was the county. So I thought the county was taking pictures for assessing every few months for some weird reason. Anyway, we finally found out later, we've found this out because somebody knocked on the doors and Swedish tourists knock on the door of the other house might tenants house, and they wanted a tour of the cobaine house. And so we found out this was the house. Kirk obain was born in. He actually lived in both houses on the property when he was born. So from like zero to six months lived in the one bedroom and his parents moved from for the next two years of his life to the larger house, the to better mouse and they moved out. But yeah, Kirk obain is my former tenant by the way spirit. What. I've been encouraging Brandon to turn this into a museum museum. Yeah. So if you have a bunch of cobaine memorabilia and you want to open a museum. You guys should partner get in touch with Brandon mail. It's brand by a grungy I house and go from there. There you go. I'm sorry I'm getting. I'm gonna go ahead. I grew up. Ardor on, let's all right. All right. Well, moving on, so, okay, guys, you wrote this book how to invest in real estate. You have a whole website, hope to podcasts a forum, blog about real estate. What's the takeaway you want people to take away from this book? What's what's the main thing you want people to get out of this book? I would say the main thing is you can do it. Well, I'd say there's a few few main things. One, it's possible. I'd say. Secondly, there is not any one answer for how to do it. The book is really helpful and helping you come to the decision on what works best for you, what tactics? Much strategy. I'd say. Thirdly, the thing that Brandon has harped on a couple of times already, which is you could sit on your behind on the couch and do nothing or you can get started today and having a sense of urgency in your financial life, I think is probably for me one of the more important things and I think you guys do a good job in talking about that on the show here. But you know, if you keep waiting and waiting, hey, one day I'll be able to do it one day. I'll be able to one day. I'll. Be able to start saving money. Well, you know that you're gonna drop dead. So live today like you're not gonna. Have tomorrow start making moves towards the end that you're seeking and you'll start to make progress, make a plan, a start mapping it out. And I, you got a map your financial plan, then you got, if you've got money, you worry about that lesson. You start mapping out your real estate plan. If you don't have money and don't see that coming in a time immediately, there's other ways to do real estate without money. Like I talked about earlier with the the book on investing with no money. But again, we cover all this stuff. So get your act in order, make the conscious decision that you're gonna change your life financially and that you want to build wealth for yourself or generational, or even if you don't like even if you want to build wealth for like, hey, in ten years, I want to, I want to own a jetski. Cool. Start doing that. If you've never ever want to own real estate at the very least, hopefully this book motivates you to get off your behind and start planning your life financially, but really book is more catered towards. Real estate. So hopefully in ten years you're buying that second home or the house for your kid. That would be my my say what he say, Brennan. I'm gonna wrap up Josh's thought. So I'm gonna say this, Jim Rome, one of the best speakers of all time, personal Velma guy says life doesn't get better by chance. It gets better by change. Right? So I hope that's what people walk away with Joshua Saint here, right? Like if you want your life to get better, you've got to make a conscious choice to make a better. So remember life doesn't get better by chance it gets better by change. So my hope is that this book makes a change, love it that fantastic. Why do you think people are so scared to get started investing in real estate? I think they're scared because it's scary. And I think the reason it scariest because we don't teach stuff. There's no knowledge, right? I dunno, Mindy. Why? Why don't you go go snorkeling with sharks. Why do you think. Because I know you well enough. I don't wanna get eaten. You don't do it because you don't, but but if you knew that the sharks that are in the water right there aren't ever gonna bother you, you still probably want you still wouldn't do it because that's total fear, and I'll get that. Thank you Spielberg but with real estate, like it comes with knowledge. A lot of people don't put money in the banks because they don't trust the banking system. They don't know they don't understand that like, no, the government's not gonna just take your money. No, the Bank isn't just going to collapse and everything gonna disappear. Right. So it just comes with education. The more we know the more we understand the less nervous we become. And so again, which is why I passionately advocate for increasing financial education as early as elementary school. I mean, I think we should be teaching this stuff in elementary, middle and high school. It should be part of the curriculum far more important to walk out of school learning about money and how it works than learning to write cursive at this point. So you know, let's let's expand a couple resources on curriculum around that. I think that's where the fear comes. Really and also because most people that you talk to probably have never invested in real estate and they're scared the same reason. Brandon's father told him that he was going to be broken stupid. He was right on half of it. This is generational knowledge that doesn't really exist. I think that's the answer. So I'm going to I'm going to add in like there's two different approaches to real estate people naturally feel like they're jumping off the cliff. Like I have this picture of like somebody cliff diving right. Think of somebody jumping off a cliff, their friends at the top laughing up them falling. And that's like this liar brain tells us right because our brain has one goal keep you alive. And so the brain of the one you'd venture out and do things doesn't want you to like, I don't know risk anything because your brain wants keep you safe. And so our brain tells us, no real estate is jumping off a cliff. It's scary your friends, gonna laugh at you. You don't know what you're doing right. But in reality, that is not what real estate is. Real estate investing is like a hike through a mountain, like through a mountaineer like me and Josh did a fourteen or in Colorado few weeks ago or a month ago it with awesome. Right. That's what real estate is. And the cool thing about that is it means that it is a community hike, but you do it together and if you the more people you have on the hikes, and, hey, watch out for this Little Rock here and, hey, there's a easier path right here. You go around this way. Like that's what real say really is, and that's what bigger pockets is the whole. I mean, that's what Josh here built over fourteen years. Right? Is a community of people hiking together on this financial freedom and saying, this is how we're going to get there. And so that's why I think people are afraid because they feel like they're alone on it. But I mean, it's you're not alone as Michael Jackson would say, yeah, you are not alone. Wow, deep. Okay. Now it's time for the famous or questions. Is this following a creative segment? Wow, these same five questions that we ask of all of our guests? Five. Yes. Yes. So why is it called the famous for. The last question is worth money. Show about the last question is tell us where people can find out more about the buck. That's a command. Not a question. Questions. All right. As we heard in these Nicole mock incon- bonus episode, we demand that you tell me that last one. Okay. But the first question is what is your favorite finance book? Richardson's Babylon, then Brandon? I'm gonna go with a tossup between three books, rich dad, poor dad, Dave Ramsey's, total money, makeover and set for life by Scott trench. Right? Vent house hacking is a term. Yes. You're so smart. I'm so glad you're here. Scott. What were your biggest money mistakes? Is that the only book question that question. I know. I know. I'm so sad. I do out of band until our command later on. I, I want to add a book though. It's not a, it's not a money book. It's a life book. Okay. It's the monk who sold his for Ari. This is literally I rent one of the more impactful books I've read in my life. It's about an attorney who has everything who's crushing it in life. Rich is famous. He successful and he has a heart attack and he realizes that he didn't actually have everything. He had all the stuff that society tells us that we want, but all the stuff that we don't really need and it's a book about life. It's a book about how to find that happiness, how to find the true you and it's deep and it's awesome. So I think everybody should get out and read that. I have never heard that when recommended, so have to check it out. I haven't had that one either. We will have links to all of these books in the show notes at bigger pockets dot com. Slash money show forty two. Awesome. What what was the? What was the questions on? Sorry, Scott, that the next question I would say is, what is your biggest money mistake? I'd say my biggest money mistake was unloading parts of my stock portfolio because I thought I could time the market and instead of being disciplined. I mean, this is twenty something years ago, right? Instead of being disciplined and holding on tight to those stocks because now I don't have them and they they're worth many, many, many times what they were worth back then, and and I did not multiply the money as well as I could have in the other uses that I put them towards. So I would say not being smart with stocks and trying to time the market and chase the market. I think it's a great one. I think it's good to point out that we've had a number of these mistakes called out on the show, and sometimes it's like I bought a car that I shouldn't have and all that kind of stuff. But the biggest ones, the one that seems to have the largest dollar amount of impact is that opportunity costs that. Under deployment of capital over time compounded over years. That's, that's like, I think it's just a great lesson of, hey, that's the biggest money. Mistake is not investing and not investing in a way that is reasonably likely to have a strong long-term result though ran. So there was a time I don't know. Probably like eight years ago now where I was building my real estate portfolio, I started, you know, flipping some houses and I was just continually losing money and I couldn't get a handle on it. And then that's why I say Dave Ramsey total money makeover, it's not that I follow every single thing daveramsey necessarily teaches in there, but I read that book at that point and I was like, he's right. I don't even have a budget like I did not have a budget at all right. So I, I thought down and I took my entire like last three months. Then I categorize everything in like a spreadsheet, and I realized that I was spending on average a thousand dollars more than I was making every month doing those three months. And I had no idea. No wonder I was going deeper into credit card debt. I couldn't get out like I was overspending because I didn't know what I was doing. That was. A huge mistake was not driving my money. I was letting my money drive me around like I was banging around in the back of the pickup truck like with no seatbelt on rye like that's what my money was doing. And it wasn't until I was conscious of that and made some tweaks. And what's funny is like I turn that around to where I was actually saving chunk of money and I didn't change anything about my lifestyle. Like I never noticed the change at all. It wasn't like all of a sudden I was like picking up cans from every grocery store, trying to go cash them in at the store or aluminum recycling placed. I wasn't doing anything weird. It was just knowing what my finances look like forever changed my finances. Just being aware of it. Or did you change by the way? I'm just curious. I mean, I don't. I don't even know. It was probably like eating out a little less than and it was maybe, you know, looking at my Bank account saying, do I really need this thing? In fact, actually there's a story in the book where I talk about how recently I found, what was it like three hundred thousand dollars hidden in my Bank account like actually tell the story how I found like I wish I. Number. It was like a three hundred thousand dollar out that you just find exactly right. That was hidden and like the key to that. When I say that I found three hundred thousand dollars cinema. My Bank account would it was was I found like three subscription service, retired payments, occurring payments and added one hundred and fifty dollars a month. I wasn't using them. And if you take a hundred and fifty dollars a month times in eight percent return over the course of like thirty years, it was like three hundred thousand dollars, three hundred, five thousand four hundred and two dollars. You have my number. That was at right. So like if you take those little things like in your life that are just subscription payments, right? Are you using Netflix and Hulu? And are you using your Amazon prime or whatever video Amazon music like so many businesses today are going subscription model. So it was just like being aware of them and cancelling things. I didn't use an anyway. It turned around that thousand dollar spent, and I didn't even notice it like I literally didn't notice it. It just all of a sudden got better. So he didn't actually find three hundred k. and his banking folks. Just to clarify, it's a metaphor for then. Yes, it that way. It should come to three hundred sixty thousand dollars once I shut those things off. So anyway. And by the way, like we'll talk about like an set for life. You might read about stopping your coffee habit and we also have these subscription habits and it's only gonna get worse because businesses have realized that this is a good model. And so I heard that the washing machines pretty soon are gonna all be like subscription. I mean at this crazy stuff, it will put out there that like this is what's killing your budget is your fixed costs, right? We've gone through almost all of them right now is description, your housing. And then after that it's you transportation and you know, most people have a fixed expense there with their car payment or lease or whatever. You know, as you eliminate those fixed expenses from your life saving comes really easy. You don't have to worry about that coffee habit or bread and has a really bad Starbucks. Now it's not a bad. It's a good habit. It's a good have every day, but that's a way. Daily habit shareholder. I say, thank you. Brenick can't kick his. He can mortgage payment and housing payment though. And that's why he's able to save so much money. There you go. Okay. What is your best piece of advice for people who are just starting out in what? In their financial journey in there, particularly in this case in their real estate journey because we're talking about how to invest in real estate, what is your best piece of advice for people who are just starting out after buying the book? I would say my best race of vice after buying the book is get out there, and I've already given other advice, you know, figure out what you like, look at your budget. All this stuff. I start looking a real estate, walk around the neighborhood. Look at houses, go to go check out, open houses. If you are a renter and don't own a home, go to every open house in your area. You'll start to learn a lot about real estate. You know, you'll start to learn what what you like, what people like, look at nice houses. Look at crummy houses. You'll be able to tell the difference to get out there. That start evaluating those deals. Brandon puts on weekly webinar every Wednesday at bigger pockets. What's your l. Brennan dot com. Slash webinar. Yeah, it's a great boot camp, great training camp to learn how to evaluate real estate deals and and other things that we have other webinars as well. I think that knowledge, understanding your market, understanding how to evaluate a deal, reading the book, getting a sense on what strategies will work best for you. You start with that dive in on the forms, listen to bigger pockets podcasts. I mean, it'll be hard for you to not continue forth. You'll be motivated. You'll be excited but do something right. And I think that's the last thing is it is hard to do, but what makes it easy is doing something and doing it every day. So set forth time every single day, said ten minutes a day to read our book. You know, read Scott's book, read Mendis book, read any book. That's not our books, right? Read the forums, go on interact and communicate. Can connect with one of the million other investors or people in the real estate space, evaluate a deal, look at properties, do something every day. If you were doing something ten minutes a day, fifteen minutes a day, it'll be inevitable within six months a year. You'll have the knowledge. The fear will be gone. You'll have expertise and skills to be able to make it happen. Perfect. Brandon. But I, I was gonna say, the consistency thing is well, because you know like everyone knows how to lose weight diet exercise, but very few people do it because people aren't consistent with it. Right? So Josh stole mine. So I will add another one. Yeah, famous quote, you are the average of the five people you associate with the most right. We naturally become like the people. That's why like people end up looking like they're dogs, right. It's like you like the people really should not use that example. Exactly like that. See somebody like jogging and he's like this like dog and then usually the owner and you're like, they're the same person. I see that all the time husbands and wives end up looking like each other. If you hang out with a lot of people who play rugby, you probably start playing rugby. Do you hang out with a ton of people who play magic the gathering, you probably start playing matches rather when you hang around people who invest in real estate and do it like consistently, you naturally are going to start investing in real estate. It's almost like a thermostat, right? We're like you surround people who are out the one temperature, like you're going to work up to their temperature a, you're probably not going to bring them down, right? So, yeah, hanging around people. But what is your favorite joke to tell at parties? Brandon guy walked into a bar instead. Ouch. But. Ooh, I don't ever want to go party with you. So you guys are both dads? I was gonna say, so Josh, your dad, you should have some dad jokes, but I guess Brandon's dad, too. I, I'm like the worst joke teller of all time. So I. I would have to say, you know, this one came direct from the mouth of Mr. Scott trench, and it would have to be. What's the pirates favorite letter are noted, be the sea. I lost to that joke with real pirate jokes, battle with a real pirate. Jimmy. Buffett's Margarita Ville on a family vacation to Orlando is very embarrassing. We gone back and forth for like five, ten minutes. The whole restaurant was goes into and I lose on that one is what what's the pirates letter are are nowhere in love with this end the whole restaurant just oh, you lose kid. It was pretty devastating. I'm sad. I wasn't there. I'm not. Okay. So Josh, where you're still find out more about you. They can go and bigger pockets. I've got lots of information all about me. I'm bigger pockets, but I'm taking a bit of a respite from social media. So I would say the best way to find me as I'm bigger pockets and if you reach out on social, I'm probably not going to respond at this point in time because. I feel like I need a little downtime. I'm tired of chasing Brandon to Hawaii and Scott to the rugby matches and Mindy up the mountains. I'm feeling envious of all you people and all the things that you're doing. And so I had to take a break. No, I, I mean, I legitimately and taking a bit of a break on on social, but bigger pockets is probably the best way to reach me. If you wanna reach me Scott, you can Email Josh at bigger pockets dot com, and it will come on food tonight inbox. So feel free to say Hello, always happy to to respond in answering any questions. You could also reach your pockets dot com or really be oughta at bigger pack and my tulips in my two at JR Dorgan my Facebook's at Joshua Dworkin feel free to follow. Sounds good. Brandin, where can people find out more about you? I'm like a thirteen year old girl, so Instagram at beardie, Brandon? Whoa, beard with a why beauty Brennan and bigger pockets of and. And Barnes and noble. I'm around. There were all over. Okay. The book is how to invest in real estate, and you can buy this book on bigger pockets at bigger pockets dot com. Slash invest in our e if you purchase the book by October thirty. First, you will get access to the live webinar which is being hosted on November eighth with both, Josh and Brandon exclusive webinar only available to people who purchased at bigger pockets dot com. Slash invest in our e. You can ask Brandon, any question you like like what's your favorite lease clause? What's your favorite way to fund a deal? Why does your hair look like that? Do you want to tell Josh, how awesome you think he is? Do you want to thank him for founding bigger pockets or simply comment on how striking resemblances to Adam LeVine, better pockets dot com, slash invest in our e and purchase the book to gain access to the webinar. Okay, Josh and Brandon. I know. Well, Brandon, I know you're really busy, Josh. Thanks so much for waking up on time to chat with the. I really appreciate you guys got to say anything. I thought that was the best exit we've ever. That's nothing to add. I feel with these guys giving them crap. I've I've gotta say that after your four hundred and thirty seconds show, I really appreciate the invites. It's been great, a lots of lots of humor, lots of entertainment and maybe a little bit of knowledge spouse. So well done. You guys are doing a great great show here. Not not. You know nothing to a great show with the bigger pocket show. This is pretty good to keep listening. Keep listening. You which China you guys gonna come back with some better jokes next time, and that would make it go from a nine and a half to ten on ten. That's cold, man. Let's just go. Well, you know, I was trying to sneak a cute joke in about your triangle, but then workout. Oh, next time really just appointed kits. Got usually you're pretty on top of it as much as they hate your jokes. You're like right there with them all the time. All right. So we are out of here again. Thank you so much for your time today, and we'll talk to you later. All right, that was Josh and Brandon authors of how to invest in real estate, which you think Mindy. Oh, that was so much fun. I really do miss seeing Josh at the office every day and he's got this energy about him. That's just infectious. He's funny. He's really, I love talking to Josh, like he's, it's just fun. It is. I want to hire just come over and talk to me for a while. He's all busy. We definitely should have had the month before. I'm really glad they were able to come on now and we will surely have them back again. I really, really, really loved reading the book. I did a lot of like pre reading the editing, not the actual editing of the book, but I ended it for content and make sure that they weren't just telling big fat lies, which they don't. Everything in the book is true, but the book is set up in a way that anyone can understand. It's not filled with jargon and all this garbage. You're like running to a dictionary. What does this word mean? What does that word mean? It's written and played English, and it just tells you kind of what the. Title says how to invest in real estate. So if you're interested in the book, if you're if you just want to go on the show on the webinar and give Josh unbranded a hard time by the book at bigger pockets dot com, slash invest in our e. I was really unclear on what the book was about at I, but I'm glad to clear course this. Yeah. Okay. Well, that ran very long. Thank you so much for listening to the show today. I'm going to ask you a question if you're already all the way here. I wanna ask you for one more favor. We want to grow our show. I hear from people all the time. Your show changed my life. Your show introduced me to the concept of financial dependence. Your show is so great. I just really enjoy listening to your show and people don't necessarily find it at they're not looking for it. So if you like this show, if you know somebody who wants to invest in real estate, please share this episode with them. You can find the show notes at bigger pockets dot com. Slash money show forty two, just send them a link. Hey, this is a show. I think he would really enjoy. Yeah. And also, if you're listening on your phone at a podcast through itunes, go ahead and click subscribe. A lot of people will actually don't know that you can just click subscribe and you can subscribe to our podcast and you'll get notified. Whenever a new one comes out. This went down those. Yes. So I think that would be really convenient for you if you like to show and don't wanna miss episodes. So I'm not obviously helps us out and we do come out on Monday mornings sometimes Monday mornings, the shuffle and bustle is a little much you don't have to worry about downloading voting it. It's already there if you subscribe. Alright, Scott. Thank you so much for your time today from episode forty, two of the bigger pockets money podcast. This is Mindy tencent, and Scott trench with Josh Durkan end Brennan Turner, and we are leaving goodbye. Goodbye.