5 Burst results for "Raymond Roe"
Unraveled: A Long Island Serial Killer
"raymond roe" Discussed on Unraveled: A Long Island Serial Killer
"I'm Alexis linklater. And I'm Billy Jensen. When detective Jim sharf snapped the cops on William Talbot, he knew that genetic genealogy could be a revolution in law enforcement. But he didn't anticipate what it would fully reveal. Just one month earlier, Golden State killer Joseph Deangelo had been identified using genetic genealogy. One month after talbott, it would be Raymond roe. Two of those three offenders had no serious criminal history. I started noticing that a lot of these other people that were being arrested by the use of genetic genealogy are people that only did it once or there's only DNA left at one crime scene. I'm thinking what kind of a person are we dealing with here? Our investigation of the row and Talbot cases in the previous episodes exposed an undeniable implication. Profiles can only be so useful in hunting down someone who has never killed before and then never kills again. In this final episode, we're asking the question, what is the future of profiling in light of genetic genealogy? And how can it possibly plan for this type of killer? Paul holes, who spearheaded the investigation of the Golden State killer, recognized the problem facing profilers when he heard the details of Raymond roe killing Christy marac. If I were to take a look at the crime scene, this looks like a predator, likely committed, you know, priors and possibly committed more afterwards, the characteristics are there. Therefore, this is likely a serial offender. Did profiling just not account for this species of killer. The previous models are a little bit problematic from a behavioral analysis standpoint. Now, you have the one offs who commit a similar enough crime that can fool those of us that have worked serial cases. There hasn't been a really good comprehensive study to figure out, well, what is going on with these offenders? These are professional investigators with decades of experience under their belts. And they're realizing how easily they can be fooled. Why? Because they've been taught to rely on the model that profiles have been selling for decades. When the FBI started its behavioral analysis unit in the 1970s, the focus was on serial killers. These were the headline grabbers, the real-life monsters that captured America's fear and fascination. People like Ted Bundy, Charles Manson and Dennis Rader, the BTK killer, are perfect examples. Law enforcement would call them lust murderers or something to that effect. They started to study these lust murderers, the serial offenders. There was this idea that serial killings had this sort of addictive quality. What are your thoughts on that? It became apparent that many of them had a very act of fantasy life about the violence. Prior to them ever committing the crimes. And that they would continue to fantasize, even after they had committed the crimes. So profilers in the early days felt that this fantasy was so core to the person. That that would be such an addiction to them, that they would continue to do that until they could no longer do that. You hear the phrase that serial killers never stop, and so if a series stopped, it's assumed that while they went into custody. They became disabled. They've died. The addiction theory, by definition, would not pertain to a one and done killer. But that type of offender was not being studied, or even really acknowledged. If the person wasn't caught quickly, they just weren't caught. And those crimes were then assumed to be part of a serial killer spree, yet to be identified. But even with all the attention being given to serial killers, how accurate were the conclusions..
Unraveled: A Long Island Serial Killer
"raymond roe" Discussed on Unraveled: A Long Island Serial Killer
"He assaulted his own family members and pushed his sister down, broke her tailbone. Threatened his father and said, when I get a driver's license, I'm going to run you over and just all of these really upsetting incidents. One of the worst instances was when his sister shared that he tried to sexually assault her. And she told their mom about what happened. And even then, the mom was just saying, well, you know, he's just not popular with girls at school and that's just what boys do when they're lonely. Everyone even his own family was saying that the picture of a man that emerged was a really angry and physical disturbed young man. His whole life. Talbott's relatives had a very different image of him than his friend Mike did, who he introduced you to in the last episode. Talbott had proven good at hiding his true self from outsiders. But DNA doesn't lie. Talbot's conviction was a win for science. In Chelsea was glad that she could play a role in finding justice for two innocent victims. I was invited by detective Jim sharf on behalf of the families to attend the sentencing. And I was really grateful for that because it was such a precedent set in case I felt like it was really important to visibly support the victims families and show that just because you happen to be related to somebody who did something like this, you don't take their side. Was that the first time you met Jay and Tanya's families? Yeah, we were able to connect and finally meet with Jay's sisters and then with Tanya's brother. What they've been through is unimaginable. They were absolutely gracious and kind and welcoming. It was the right choice to be there and to be supportive of them that they so you saw William and court. I did see him. Do you recall what he said? He made a few statements about things like I have sympathy for the families, but I have loathing for anyone who could think I would do such a thing. And if you talk to people who knew me, they'll tell you that I was never violent and I've never harmed anyone. It was unfortunate that he felt the need to say anything and maintain his innocence to the end instead of having some kind of shred of decency to acknowledge what had happened and acknowledge the pain. He inflicted on the families and what he took from the. William Talbot continues to appeal his case. But his conviction marks him as a specific kind of criminal. One who had many of the same traits as a serial murderer, but appears to have only killed that one time. Just like Raymond roe. What could we learn about this type of criminal by looking at these two offenders? All right, Billy, so we've got these two really interesting cases that have both been solved using genetic genealogy. And what's really interesting is that in both of them, we've got these two killers that really just blew the minds of investigators into 5 their expectations. What's even more interesting is that Raymond wrote and William Talbot really couldn't be more different in terms of their approaches to their crime. So while they're both one and dones, they're different kinds of killer. Yeah, they were obviously both male. They were both 24 years old, so they were fairly young when they committed the crimes, but after that, the similarities get sparse. Rowe seems to have stalked Christy Murray beforehand. Possibly starting as a peeping Tom to driving past her place during his commute and it didn't seem like he was at all prepared to actually do something because he didn't bring any weapons. But Talbot actually picked his victims at random and he also had a plan how to pull off his crime and get away with it. He was organized, whereas Raymond roe at the crime scene was not. What's even more crazy is that after they committed these crimes, how they decided to sort of hide, Raymond roe hidden plain sight, he became like a well-known DJ who was out in the open and attracting as much attention as possible, but Talbot laid low. He really just stayed under the radar indefinitely. So it's not really just how they commit the crimes, but also how they hide. So they're wildly different, but yet still one and dones. Yeah, 'cause they both committed similar sexual homicides and the real kicker is that the whole reason we decided to investigate these cases is that as far as anybody knows, they only killed once. Right, and here's what we know. We know they both got away with it for decades. And without genetic genealogy, they would have gotten away with it forever. And that's what we're talking about here. Genetic genealogy is identifying this different kind of killer, this newer type of killer that has never really been on the books before. Nobody can really process that and they're really scary part is it's identifying more of them than anyone expected. Everybody expected all of these serial killers, but we're seeing a lot of these potential one and dones. Right, these guys are freaking everywhere. The.
Unraveled: A Long Island Serial Killer
"raymond roe" Discussed on Unraveled: A Long Island Serial Killer
"As the days ticked by after Tanya and Jay's murder, with no leads panning out. Tangy his brother John despaired of ever finding an answer. It was a pretty, pretty dark time. I stayed home for a number of weeks, didn't go back to university for a while, tried to spend some more time at home with my parents and try to try to get through it, but it was very dark days. Despite a robust search for tips or witnesses by authorities, the days became months, and the months became years. There were 230 different people named as possible suspects in this case because it was profiled on unsolved mysteries back in 1980 9 or 88, so people from all over the country had been calling in tips on this. Every year that you don't get a hit, you know, it's like, are we ever going to get one? I was always hopeful that it would be solved. I never gave up hope knowing that a DNA evidence that was there. The DNA was the one thing investigators had going for them. But even as the national database known as codis expanded, they couldn't find an answer. I don't think they did any DNA work until like 1991 on this case. The DNA was put into codis and a year later it was put into the equivalent of codis in Canada. And there were no matches. I think a lot of people were surprised that it that there wasn't a match based on the profile of what the killer was expected to be like. Had the killer refined his approach to avoid leaving DNA again? Had he died? Had he left the country? It would take more than 30 years for law enforcement to find the answer. And it would come through genetic genealogy. This is the most powerful tool that's ever came along since DNA came along itself. Because it's a way that you can solve any crime if you have DNA evidence. Not just one where you've got a person that's encoded. In 2018, 31 years after tangy and Jay were murdered, detective Jim scharf received a message that would finally bring him closer to solving this cold case. I went to my office and I had an email from Barbara Rae Venter. And the email said, today they caught the Golden State killer and I don't want anybody to know it, but I was behind that. He was responsible for like 52 rapes and 13 murders in California over all this time period. And I thought, wow, this is great. Barbara ray Venter was a noted genealogist. She told me that she thought at that point she could help me. Identify the killer of Jay and Tanya. She says we need to get a DNA sample and upload it to Jed match, and we can work on identifying him through his relatives. And at that point, what was your understanding of jud match? It was a public database. If you get your DNA from ancestry dot com and I get my DNA profile from 23andMe and if you upload it to Jed match and I upload it to Jed match, we can match if we're related. So it's a way to match to more relatives. Jed match spelled GED match is a publicly open resource, which made it a potential boon for law enforcement trying to identify unknown DNA. As it turns out, Jim's team had already given a DNA sample of Tanya and Jay's killer to pair a bond nano labs. The company that was used in genetics to create composite sketches of suspects, like Raymond roe. Paraben agreed to do the Jed matched search for this case to see if they could identify the suspect that way. I'm thinking maybe we'll match to 40 relatives. Because I had put my DNA in to a couple of different companies, and I matched to like a thousand people. Most of them you're matching to fourth cousins. So you might have hundreds of fourth cousins out there that you have no idea who they could even be. Four days later, a pair of rep called him with an answer. He says, I've narrowed it down to one name. And I'm like, I don't believe this. What's the guy's name? And he says, William Earl Talbot the second. And I'm like, I have never heard of this person. Iran is criminal history. And it was pretty insignificant, I think he had a simple assault charge year or two before the murder. Nothing since then. Did that surprise you? Yeah. William talbott the second was a lifelong Washington resident who lived a nearby wooden ville and worked for a trucking company. He seemed unremarkable in every way. And he had never been on police's radar. Jim and his team now needed to verify Talbot's DNA. Detectives followed him down to a little cafe in Buckley. And he went inside and ate a lunch. We contacted the waitress and asked her not to throw his stuff away when she bust his table. So after he ate, they gathered the items that she had set aside in the kitchen. They packaged that and brought it to me. The results from the lab were definitive. Talbott was their guy. They were able to verify that it was him and the chance of it being anybody else is one in a 180 quadrillion. Were you excited were you nervous? Were you thrilled? I was like, I can't believe this. I feared up, like I am now. And then I said, we got him. And it was, it was just wonderful feeling. After all these years to solve such a horrendous crime like that. Officers cornered Talbot at his workplace, and Jim himself snapped the cuffs on him. I said, listen, you're under arrest and he says, what for? And I said, first degree murder. Now we're going to take you up to the sheriff's office and Everett. And we'll be able to talk. And he said, not after what you told me, I wanted to. I got on the phone and I called John kylan Borg. And I told him that he was in custody. He's sitting in the back seat of this car. And he's like, he's sitting in the back seat of the car you're in right now, and I'm like, yeah, he's all under control. You don't have to worry about it anymore. I've been a police officer for 44 years. And that day was probably the highlight of that whole career. Michael Lewis here host of against the rules..
Unraveled: A Long Island Serial Killer
"raymond roe" Discussed on Unraveled: A Long Island Serial Killer
"Among us. I'm Alexis Linkletter. And I'm Billy Jensen. When Raymond Rowe was identified as Christy miracle killer in 2018. He appeared to be a unique offender. He had targeted a stranger for horrific rape and murder. But seemingly, never gave into that urge again. He was to call in a phrase a one and done killer. There was no criminal profile that fit this kind of individual, were it not for genetic genealogy, Raymond Rowe would still be a free man today. This made us wonder, is row really an outlier? Or does he shine a light on a breed of killer that until now has been working in the shadows? It turns out, grow isn't so unique after all. In that took us to the other side of the country, 2800 miles from Lancaster, Pennsylvania, to the rural community of snohomish county, Washington, the backdrop of another disturbing case. It appeared that somebody had experience that did this. Somebody that had done it before. And maybe had done it after that, too. He carried a rape murder kit with him and he was out hunting. That's detective Jim sharf, from the cold case unit in snohomish. In 2018, at the same time that authorities in Pennsylvania were honing in on Raymond roe, scharf was hoping to identify another long sought perpetrator. One which could provide the answer to a 31 year old mystery. Jim sharf started working in law enforcement in snohomish in the late 70s. Covering the sprawling section of the Pacific Northwest that covers from the bays and estuaries of the puget sound, to the dense forests and Alpine wilderness of Washington's interior. Snohomish county is just north of Seattle. There's several major cities that are on the west side of the county, as you move further east, it becomes very rural and it's forest service land. This large swath of remote areas and unsettled land was already proving to be the perfect territory for prolific killers to operate and hide. When I was a patrolman in a city home, I was paying attention to the murders like Ted Bundy had been committing murders and the green river killer was active, so I was always aware of the high profile cases in the area. But there would be one case early in Jim's career that he would not be able to let go. It involved two missing young adults from Canada. The story starts in late 1987 when Tanya, then Kyle and Borg and Jay cook, who had just started dating, set out on a quick, mini adventure. Tanya was 18 year old girl who grew up in San British Columbia. It's a suburb of Victoria. And she was just out of high school, dating a new boyfriend, Jay cook, and Jay's father asked him if he would go down to Seattle to pick up some furnace parts, her job he was working on. And they thought that Tanya and he could have some time alone to get to know each other. If she went with him. So on November 18th, they left Victoria on a ferryboat and came over to port Angeles. To head to Seattle to pick up the furnace parts. They were driving Jay's parents van, a large copper colored van that had windows all the way down the sides of it. So it was pretty distinctive. And it was extra long. The plan was that they would sleep in the van. Once they got to Seattle and then they would pick up the furnace parts the next morning and go home. It was just supposed to be a one night trip, right? Yes. When they didn't come home the next day, they knew that something was wrong. It was sort of on the late afternoon of November 19th. When my dad called me to ask if Tania and Jay might have come through Vancouver or if they had been in contact with me because they had returned home on their sort of schedule time. That's Jon van kielan Borg, Tanya's older brother. He was attending college in Vancouver at the time. He didn't even know that his sister had gone on a trip until he got that unsettling call from his dad. I was concerned right away as my parents were because it was out of character for Tanya to not be in communication if the plan was changed like that. Tanya and Jay's family immediately filed a missing person's report with Washington authorities. Then headed south to search for their missing loved ones themselves. My dad and two of my cousins, the four of us traveled down to the Seattle area to try to find other information or find out their leads and to circulate some missing persons posters. So you were going around all of these different locations showing their pictures and asking people have you seen them? Yeah. We didn't get any real leads out of any of that. So you're trying to fight back the worst fears. You're trying to hold out hope. But without any information, it was obviously getting harder to be optimistic. And were you in touch with Jay's family and how are they handling it? They were beside themselves as we were really, you know, I think everyone was gathered around the family home and trying to keep a 24/7 vigil hoping for any sort of phone call or any sort of communication from anybody. Both houses I think had lots of family and friends there 24 hours a day. 6 days later, on November 24th, a pedestrian was picking up cans along auroral road. When they made a horrifying discovery. It was Tanya's body, down and embankment, dead from a gunshot wound. It was in a remote area of north's gadget county. Heavily wooded area,.
Unraveled: A Long Island Serial Killer
"raymond roe" Discussed on Unraveled: A Long Island Serial Killer
"We're at the smoke town elementary school. This is where the undercover stakeout took place. Right on May 31st of 2018, DJ freeze was having an event at his daughter's school. The Pennsylvania state police undercover unit decided to hold an operation there. We had a photo booth set up. Oh, okay. And so one of the undercover troopers decided to start mingling with him. And she was able to talk with him. And communicate with him and that's where she was able to get some pictures taken with him. Really? Why do you think he was entertaining her? Well, she was an attractive female. And ironically, she had a picture that was taken inside the photo booth wearing a policeman's hat and along with a sign that said wasn't invited. That's very cheeky. The undercover trooper said that he was very friendly and she stated that she was able to talk and converse with him quite a bit. And that he joked around. So he's probably thinking, I'm DJing for my daughter. I'm gonna be the cool dad. This is what I do. He's flirting with the undercover officer. He has no clue what's coming. We don't believe he had any idea, and there'd be no reason to believe that he had any idea of what was going on. They were able to obtain a water bottle that he left there upon leaving the event and also a cup with a chewed up piece of gum. Raymond rose DNA was successfully collected. Cold case detective Chris herb recalls what happened next. It was sent out to a DNA lab with the state police and they did an analysis and was a few days after that. It came back and everybody was gathered into a conference room. At first everything was quiet because the lab technician is saying, okay, and the results are in everyone was silent. And he said, you've got your guy. And then we just screamed and yelled inhalation. I can't imagine how that must have felt. I think there are a few choice words that we probably can't air, said there, but it was a good day. The confirmation had finally given this crime a solution that was long overdue. But now, there were many unanswered questions. Why had this seemingly normal individual committed this murder? Why had he targeted Christy merak? And how was he able to live so comfortably in the same small town for so long, holding that horrifying secret? Raymond roe was arrested on June 25th, 2018. He was out mowing his grass that afternoon. And we thought that was the most opportune time to affect the arrest in a very safe manner. Uniformed officers moved them. And they affected the arrested right there in his front yard. I drove up, and I read in the warrant, told him he was under arrest for the homicide of Christy mirac. And he said, who? And I said, Christy mirac was from December 21st of 1992. He was in disbelief. He said, are you sure you got the right person? And I said, well, if you want to talk about the police station, we can talk about that later, but yeah, I'm sure. You're probably beaming with excitement. Yes. Police hoped that the damning evidence would prompt a confession out of Raymond row. And you would help them fill in all the blanks from that event back in 1992. It didn't go the way they wanted. So you haven't at a table in front of you. How does a conversation go? We interviewed him for about three and a half hours. Lancaster city police.