20 Episode results for "Ramseys"

JONBENT: The Case Against The Ramseys

The Killing of Marilyn Monroe

34:51 min | 1 year ago

JONBENT: The Case Against The Ramseys

"Israeli I wanNA tell you that this air here are your video recorded of volunteered statement. You're free to go over to stop this interview any time to wherever you hearing growing by now. That was a clip from patsy. Ramsey's please interview in the late. Ninety s this is John Ramsey. Today we were told us later by the district attorney was to release a lot of information to the media that was was suspicious. Made US look guilty. Tension guilty and the media would bring intense pressure on passing. I one of us at crack back during the confess as to be solved that was their whole strategy that was the only strategy yet and so the media of course ran with it. Big Time and convinced convinced seventy percent of the world that we were guilty of Maria child then the police recalling. Oh we can't bring a case because we don't have any evidence so so they kind of got back into core like Dang you know we. We thought one of them was going to confess that we solve the crime. We could've gone on TV and Indianapolis Welcome to part two of the killing of Jon. Benet Ramsey the final suspects. I'm your host Danielle Robea We do have a group here now on the ground knocking on doors and talking to people who know what happened. who were there? Were involved to have records. This is Jon Benet Ramsey expert Jamison in. Hopefully we can do something to get this investigation. Gatien advanced no matter how it takes if we have to do. If we can get the COPS to help us. That would be wonderful if we could convince somebody to step in. Take the case away from the police department. Give it to a cold-case group or the District Attorney's office again. That would be wonderful but we're determined to every effort we can get in this advanced before they can begin to work on formerly detective. Smith suspect list. We need to address the elephant in the room. From the moment John Ramsay discovered the body of his daughter in the cellar of their family. Home he and wife Patsy had become prime mm-hmm suspects in her murder. As far as the boulder police were concerned one or both of them did it period and thanks to increasingly rabid media interest crest and a million online conspiracy theorists that view became shared around the world. was there ever any evidence to back up this theory in this episode. We're going to discuss the case against the RAMSEYS. This is detective. Robert Whitson talking about the Boulder Police Department. There's something called confirmation bias and when you have that you don't want to hear anything that's contrary to year theory once you've made up to your mind you don't want to hear anything that would be contrary to that so I think that's what was occurring now of course they'll deny that according to figures from the US Department of Justice seventy four percent of all murder victims in America. No they're killer and over over one in five victims are killed by a member of their own family for the boulder. PD The initial. Focus of their investigation was naturally jonbenet's parents John and patsy eighty former sheriff's investigator. John San Augustine explains from the onset of this investigation. The Boulder Police Department has focus the Ramsey family. So you know what we're dealing with right now. Even twenty years later is a situation where because of their lack of objectiveness really in this case lack of really pursuing the the the truth and only focusing on the family they have not allow themselves to look at other potential suspects local news reporter Paulo Woodward also remembers cops refusing to keep an open mind on the case stars I know will the only suspects they really pursued or John and Patsy Ramsey. They have said that they pursued others. Looks at others from the information that I have an examining that investigation. They were locked onto the family by the first day and they didn't change their focus. Still they are suspects of the Boulder Police Department at Saint. John's DNA did not match patsy in John's handwriting did not match to the ransom note yet. They still were suspects of the Boulder Police Department. Those are two pretty definitive pieces of evidence that exclude the family. They were not excluded older. PD may have wanted to believe. The ramseys were guilty but they had no actual proof John or patsy were involved loved and his days to weeks and with the public demanding justice many close to the case say. The police began to manipulate the huge media interest to try to further their own cause errors of the case that initially happened at the crime scene or compounded rounded boulder police leaky misinformation on purpose and being picked up by rookie media reporters and run the first wake the leaks. Were Bing's just outright untruths like patsy. Ramsey wouldn't take a DNA test while she had that came from Boulder. Hold it please from police spokesperson. It was again very wrong a travesty. I just don't know why it will decrease that Robert Woodson was the on call detective supervisor in Boulder in nineteen ninety six and one of the first officers on the scene. He was a part the case from the start. There started to be news leaks within the media so obviously somebody it one or more people were giving the news media information up. Some of it was accurate. Some of it was inaccurate. And we didn't know who was doing doing that. So based on that police department decided to really limit access as far as you know who could have any access to the information information which I clearly understand why that was done unfortunately that then enders an investigation. Because sometimes the APP somebody one detected may have a piece of information that fits with a piece of information that another person has and if you don't on have that communication if it gets basically locked down then it may fall through the cracks in the system. So what happened at that. Point is just a few people became the what I would call the ongoing investigative team and they were the people that had had access to the information for the first four years. After this murder occurred. I was told by detectives that were working at who you did not give any specifics. They just told me the ramseys definitely were involved. That was definitely their focus with the ramseys were involved. And that's what I believe leap for the first four years I think they had group think going on and it was almost like tunnel vision. They were focused on on Patsy Ramsey that became the focus of this investigation. And whether you're making it a point to be more mindful to eat healthier or to learn a new skill there are plenty of ways we can better ourselves in the new year. I can't think of one. That's more important than starting the year off tackling your high interest credit card that AN UPSTART DOT COM is here to help. Upstart is the revolutionary lending platform that offers smarter interest rates to help you pay off high interest credit card debt. They believe you're more than just your credit score so they actually reward you based on other factors like your education your job history in the form of a smarter interest rate and it's fast and easy to check your rate since it's a soft poll. It won't affect your credit score. I checked mine in just a few minutes and I did it right from my phone. It's no wonder over. Four hundred thousand people have used upstart. And how you can't do see why upstart is ranked number one in their category with over three hundred businesses on trust pilot unhurried upstart dot com slash Ramsey to find out. How low your upstart rate is checking? Your rate only takes a few minutes. That's upstart dot com slash Ramsey. Ram Ram Suny. Having simply safe is having enterprise level security but for your own home home think about the type of security that fortune five hundred companies use. They need to know police are going to be on the scene immediately. This is exactly the kind of security security you get with simply safe when a break occurs simply safe uses real video evidence to give police an eyewitness account of the crime and that means police dispatch up two three hundred and fifty percent faster than for a normal burglar alarm outdoor cameras and doorbells. Alert anyone approaching your home. You're protected inside. Hi to with entry. Motion and glass break sensors. Everything's monitored twenty four seven. I live security professionals. And here's my favorite part. You can set up the system all by yourself. No tools required for just fifty cents a day with no contracts simply safe is a small price to pay for having peace of mind. Don't go to simplisafe dot com slash J. B. R. Today to get free shipping on your order plus a sixty day money back guarantee that simply safe. Sim He l. i.. SAFE DOT COM SLASH GS VR to save on home security today simplisafe dot com slash J biard. What began as an oddity? A shock news item about a murder in an affluent part of a sleepy Colorado town soon developed into the biggest story in America and everyone it seemed had an opinion. It is a single single homicide. What is the matter with these people? They should be ashamed of themselves. high-grade whoever the killer was was not concerned they were going to be caught. Boulder Police Department has this investigation while in hand the investigation is in shambles her child beauty pageant pictures and we had no idea that this is going on had been leaked and sold to the media the photographers who took them and it was just audit control. Chaos like with the OJ Simpson case where people were making money people in the media or purported to be in the media were making money having an opinion on the OJ Simpson case. That's what happened on the Ramsey case and there were people who said the RAMSEYS did it. They were public broadcasting broadcasting this or writing it and there were people who were saying an intruder did it but by far the ramseys did it. Case was the one that was the most advanced. That's where people were the most shrill and that's where ratings up because the viewers and listeners were interested that's where people made their money and so they stuck with the ramseys did it. It was really awful. The way the media just I did not do their jobs and made a decision that they were for one or for the other and it was wrong. Very wrong former sheriff's investigator Peter Johnson Augustine when law enforcement you who's not involving homicide investigations on a regular basis is conducting a murder investigation. Uh You can understand. There's there's probably GonNa be some mistakes because they don't do it. They don't do with any level of regularity. They don't understand the dynamics of a homicide case nobody. Nobody can say that. Somebody who's investigated narcotics her. Somebody's investigated burglaries armed. Robberies is the guy or the Gal you you want to go to to investigate a case like this involving the murder of a six year old little girl just can't it can't put that in the hands of an inexperienced individual. You need to have somebody with some familiarity with homicide in how. It's Alan investigation like that. You know how how involved it is and why it's so important. According to do a proper investigation gathering facts what you're about to hear are extracts from a long buried police interview with Patsy Z.. Ramsey an interview. She undertook voluntarily. If you the consider Jon Balka somewhere Germany's not thought there crushed. Never ask me as the is. I'm not saying that he thought about this brander expired or something for months to carry this out. I'm said did you ever for a second thing nine. Maybe there was an accident are there could could. John have accidentally pushed struck John Eventually. In September nineteen ninety ninety eight a grand jury was convened to consider indicting the Ramseys for charges relating to the case we have tracked down a member of that jury. Jonathan Webb I lived in Boulder Colorado in the late nineties. I was a graduate student at the University of Colorado auto and then I was in his up. Potential Juror. The process of of a grand jury is where the prosecutor presents the information. There is no defense lawyers or personnel. There it's simply the prosecutor presenting the evidence us as they have found it. We were allowed to take notes. Ask questions of the witnesses and we saw a lot of information from and everything from individuals that were related to the case to handwriting. Experts to medical experts birt's doing autopsy etcetera. The one thing that really I've never forgotten is the testimony from Pediatric Edgar Forensic pathologist from the University of Miami and the shots of the we saw video and a lot of testimony Simoni and the manner in which someone dies With the type of injuries that Jon Benet had and time on course what is something that will never leave me in one thousand nine hundred nine. After a year of hearing testimony and being presented with evidence from the boulder police the grand jury returned with. What's called a true bill to charge the Ramseys with placing Jon Benet at risk in a way that led to her death breath in layman's terms? Kind of glorified child negligence not murder not manslaughter. Following that Boulder County A.. Alex Alex Hunter announced. He would not be prosecuting. The ramseys on any charges declaring that he did not believe that in a trial he could prove guilty beyond reasonable doubt based upon the evidence that we saw we were told the decision is a preponderance of the evidence or a grand jury which which means over fifty percent fifty point one percent or more that. You think someone might have done it then you vote to indict. That is not beyond a reasonable doubt. The evidence that I saw I if I sat on a regular jury. I would've never convicted anyway anyway because it wasn't to the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt. So I think the. Da made the correct decision. And I was fine with it. I'm fine with the fact that it's still unsolved murder. I don't want that to be misinterpreted but I simply don't believe the evidence was there to convict anyone. It would have been wasted Chase that based upon the evidence at the time Alex Hunter made an announcement on a beautiful mutiple they in boulder and it was chaotic and there were people all over the place live trucks all over the place that was in that era. She walked down the stairs of the district attorney building and walked into a park reporting had been set up an Alex Hunter after the district. Attorney said there will not be charges filed in the Jon Benet Ramsey case and a world exploded because that it's not fat factory. Have you somebody responsible. After the Boulder District Attorney announced he would not be filing charges bowler place then continued to try to find ways to find John and Patsy Ramsey guilty the boulder police department have I said all along. Hey we looked at other people other than the ramseys but their focus remained on the Ramsey unable to proved the ramseys were guilty by means of actual detective work. The police even resorted to underhanded tactics as this Fox News report from nineteen ninety nine shows. I'm John and Patsy Ramsey at home but not entirely at peace the death their daughter haunting them everywhere and they found out there appears to be no refuge or sanctuary. John and Patsy Ramsey had planned to talk to us at Jonbenet's grave site but when they found out that the boulder police had bugged this area near their daughters water's resting place during the investigation. They were too offended to come here. They should have some dignity just disappointing hurt The BOULDER PD may have have been sticking to their theory but for other investigators. The evidence that Jon Benet parents were responsible for her. Death simply didn't stack up. Chief among them was was lead detective loose man who was so convinced of their innocence. He continued investigating the case right up until his death in two thousand ten amongst those who worked with him was John San Agustin so when Leland I began looking at the evidence in this case some of the things that stood out regarding a possible and shooter I think the number one thing was that there was a window that was broken in the basement area. There was a scuff mark along the back part of the wall. There as you're coming you know just just below that window that was broken and partially open and it was also a suitcase that that was perpendicular to that wall. What was interesting about the suitcase? Was that the suitcase was partially opened and there was a piece of glass on on top of that. CK's indicating that possibly somebody said either entered there or possibly tried to leave their now. What's also important about the suitcase is that inside of that was a day and a Dr Seuss Book of which the fibers of which Jon Benet was wearing the morning? She's discovered by her dad. Those fibers or also found inside of the suitcase indicating a possibly. I believe Jon Benet was placed in Saturday. CK's other evidence that shows at possibly there was an intruder. Was that there were marks on Jon. benet dower noted at autopsy. More specifically that there were two stun-gun marks found on her face and on her back back which both injuries were very similar. What we found out Dr Dober- San was that those injuries or consistent with the stun gun? Ah Here's former boulder. Detective Robert Whitson after I retired. I met loose-knit Lou Lou was a detective who had worked over two hundred homicide with ninety percent clearance rate and he had been brought brought in by the District Attorney's office as a senior investigator. For the Ramsey case and Lou became the primary a person to promote what we call the intruder theory. Which is somebody broke into the house and committed this murder? It wasn't somebody within the Ramseys Family Lou and in and out of the window showed how easy it was to get in there. We know the window was easily accessible. Because Mr Angie at rock himself out I can August and broke that window. I went in to get into the House and never repaired. Apparently there was the suitcase that was placed right below the window. It appears to us that the person who was kidnapping her actually was gonna put her in a suitcase and tried to push up through the window to exit. But it couldn't do that because there was just not enough room to push her condenser him to get up inside. The whole thing does not make sense. So it's Christmas night to God fearing parents right are gonNA kill their daughter but what they're gonNA do is they're going to doctor from a room stun gun her twice right sexually assault or with a paintbrush strangle her. You know the manner of death is homicide. Aside cause of death was strangulation but more importantly after all that happens. There's also a blow to her head which covers to acceptable lobes equivalent of a seventy mile on our car crash. So I mean why would mom and dad and then oh by the way. They're gonNA write a ransom note and they're gonNA call the police even though the ransom no says don't call them then going to place her in a room of which just pure luck. None of the officers opened that door right and then a detective comes and tells John Ramsey which will never happen. Hey John go look for things out of the ordinary mobile. He goes down to a door that it was never open by law enforcement. That did two searches of that home and John Ramsey comes across his daughter. I mean the whole thing. You couldn't line up all the stars and moons the right way to get that scenario the play out the other thing is where did all this evidence go to never found the source of the duct tape never found the source of the white cord. The ramseys Ramsey's nobody can say that the ramseys owned a stun gun. You also have the high-tech footprint that was found and the storage room where Jonbenet's body was found. No source for that. Nobody in the Ramsey family had an issues like that bats supposedly none of the police officers or anybody that went there as she was like that. Or they're missing pages from the note pad those. Those were never found there. Was this beaver hair. That was found on Jon. Benet that Lou went through the whole house trying to find their a beaver Harris because they said well. That's Ramsey supposedly has a pair of boots beaver here on ever found any other lever hairs. So there're there were a lot of other fibers and hairs that have never been associated with anybody and then of course you had the DNA the male L. D. N. A.. That was found that we still don't know who's DNA that is in nineteen ninety eight John Ramsey easy frustrated by an investigation seemingly hell-bent on only pursuing he and Patsy wrote to district attorney Alex Hunter through his attorney Brian Morgan and once again reaffirming his willingness despite everything to do whatever it took to find his daughter's killer on December twenty sixth two thousand to in six years to the day after Jonbenet's murder. Mary lacy who had succeeded. Alex Hunter as Boulder County District Attorney. Took over the case within months she to subscribe to lose smits theory that an intruder was most likely responsible for Jon. Benet death and in July two thousand eight. She announced that the Ramseys were excluded a suspects and publicly exonerated them. Here's reporter Paula Woodward Mary Lacy Came Throng on a sex crimes background. That was her area of expertise. Those cases that she studied for years in trying to resolve the geometry Ramsey eighty murder. She looked at with her estimators things. That had not been tested for DNA in the Jon Benet Ramsey case in one of the things she found was a pair of long johns the long johns were sent to the same testing latte the first DNA a from her panties and her fingernails was identified in nineteen. Ninety seven. Anna was identified in the waistband up those long johns does that matched DNA that had been tested in nineteen ninety seven. It was a huge development. Mary lacy then went on to exonerate the Ramseys in a letter that received a lot of criticism. She said the reason Jason that she exonerated the Ramseys after her second. DNA testing match. The first was because the case was on a road road to try to convict the Ramseys and involved the death penalty and she didn't think they were guilty and she felt someone. Commissioner with authority even knows very unusual and highly criticized move should exonerate them. So should give tragically. Patsy Ramsey never lived to receive that exoneration in two thousand and two the ovarian cancer she had. I been diagnosed with in nineteen ninety three returned and she died in two thousand six at age forty nine. She is now buried next to her daughter here. She is speaking into investigators in nineteen ninety eight after the job. A Lot. More pressure for shooting shooting. Investigation the media whether Avenue interview. What what it's going to be aware if there is this gotta wear into the soul search for cope with it? I kind of thought myself. Get too tired contend fall in craw online depressed so I try to manage my health risks. Well Joe we have taken out the under the paper. Not just can't care because recent times that I had inadvertently themes of they learn new thing Ed Collins. I can't that was just like me in John. Ci Out because it's harmful you're watching the former detectives John San Agustin and Robert Whitson also believe that progress can still be made despite the mistakes of the past as we look at this case again. We look at the two theories whether or not there was an intruder who did this. The family and I will tell you that there are a number of investigators who have well over a couple hundred years of experience in and investigations. Who all say that? The murder of Jon Benet Ramsey was not done by the family but by intruders or an engineer. The problem is the Boulder Police Department. Still to this day will not come out and give any information on spend twenty three years I think at this point we need to come out and let people know what have you done. Have you looked at other people. Have you not looked at that other people. What are you doing still today? There are still a number of leads that have never been followed up by law enforcement is my understanding that approximately three thousand leads came into the Boulder Police Department and the onset of this investigation of which still still a number of them have never been followed. My understanding is there were are both fibers. Animal hairs that were never sourced so I had a source of ad here from the suspect. was that ever tested. I don't know they're not seeing anything anything. I was told that one of the neighbors two of the RAMSEYS and reported about a month before John. Benes murder order that there was somebody leaving cigarette butts in their backyard and I was told. Supposedly an officer responded and collected one of those cigarette butts. Now keep in mind this is prior to DNA. So it may have come into propping opinion evidence and because there was no DNA available you know discarded up like it was cap for a while the question is was that DNA from a cigarette butt ever test because we know in the asked that has been one of the methods of operation of sexist suspects where they will be in the area washing doing kind of surveillance of place that they wanNA break into and be out there smoking while they're you're watching the subject song and former grand jury member. Jonathan Webb agrees that DNA will be the key to finally securing justice for Jon. Benet the advances of analytical technology spend Jordan Attic and if money's was educated and the evidence was preserved my belief is and local technology could solve this crime. You'd have to have a dog detective. WHO's dedicated and focused funded well and given the best analytical tools and allowed to do his or her or work and if that is the case I think it would be solved next time on the killing of Jon Benet the final suspects ax discrediting the case against the RAMSEYS? The few people who are left in the Boulder Police Department still believed that John and or patsy Ramsey murdered their daughter. All of the jurors believed that the truth theory didn't hold water. It was almost like tunnel vision Asian. They were focused on Azi Ramsey and long buried recordings of police interviews with John Patsy and Burke Ramsey Z.. Here you know when when can rush the killing of Jon Benet. The final suspects is hosted by me. Danielle Rowe Bay executive produced just by Dylan Howard and Matt sprouts and is a production of broaden water studios and endeavor audio executive producers also include. Tom Freestone Doug Long Genie. Susan Bennett James Robertson and Andy Tillett. The series is written by Dominic reporting by Doug Montero the series is mixed and engineered by Sean on craft and Sam Ada. There is so much more to this story. And you don't WanNa Miss Anything I can assure you subscribe to the killing of Jon. Benet the final suspects wherever you get podcasts. If you have any information that could help our investigators and the ramseys identify jonbenet's killer. Please help us at tips at justice for Jon. BENET DOT COM.

RAMSEYS murder Patsy Ramsey Jon Benet Ramsey Benet Ramsey Boulder Police Department Ramsey Jon Benet John Patsy John Boulder investigator Jon Ramsey family boulder jonbenet Robert Whitson Ramseys Family Lou
Full Episode: Friday, January 15, 2021

20/20

1:20:33 hr | Last week

Full Episode: Friday, January 15, 2021

"Sure you can be. I grandfather was a detective on one of the biggest unsolved murders in our generation. This a child who was put to bed by her parents they just come saying no is police found evidence from the beginning that in their minds pointed directly to the ramseys time to leave the media laptop with the boulder. Police department wanted to tell us all of us that wanted to pursue the intruder. We're being removed from the case. Andy just said. I have a name. I want you to write down. And i did. And he said that's where you start all but one person on that list is innocent. Then you got your killer. sean ramsay. The little girl in colorado was murdered. Clean a jon benet jon. Benet murder has frightened residents of boulder The murder of comedy ramsey really is right now in this country the most infamous case you get their own people. Want to know who killed jon. Benet ramsey there is so much mystery rounding giannis murder and it's lasted nearly a quarter of a century. The reason i think it continues to wrestle is because we just don't know she was a spark plug in our family. I looked she kept things alive. Mongolia was abolished of fire. She was always very caring spiritual she could stand on her head she get hula-hoop could rollerblade suit just recently learned how to find a rockfall. She'd was a six year old girl. Somebody's daughter somebody's sister and she was taken from us in a very violent way. I think the fascination for this case endures because we still don't know who killed this little girl want to know what happened to job and we want justice for job. That's why the case indoors until the day we die. We'll be looking for the person that murdered her daughter in nineteen ninety-six a little girl named jon benet ramsey six years old. She was brutally assaulted and murdered on christmas night in the basement. Upper home and builder. Hey guys welcome to our first. Ever podcast episode. Thanks for tuning in. My name is jessica. I'm lexie and we're sisters. I think there's a new generation. Who's into the jon benet ramsey case. Who were her age. We're told to stay inside by their parents when she was murdered. I think yeah growing up it was it scared me a little bit because we're the same age and no same state and blonde hair blue. I you know it was a little bit scary. I remember thinking that. I could not believe that this happened like so close to our home. You think that your home is safe that this place is safe and you just don't think that it could have happened here and it did. The murder took place sometime between ten pm. On december twenty fifth and five thirty. am on december twenty. Sixth nineteen ninety six. The know a lot about the case My two girls. They love the grandfather. Grandfather was a detective on one of the biggest unsolved murders in our generation. The jon benet ramsey murder. And with this podcast. We wanna talk about the jonbenet ramsey case from our grandfather lucent's perspective was a really legendary detective colorado. That was brought in early to investigate homicide once. He got a hold of a case he never let go and he had great attention to detail. Blue smith made an eight hour video presentation that includes notes on mackay's potential suspects the evidence he collected over the years. It's a virtual encyclopedia of the jon. Benet ramsey case retired homicide detective from the poorest springs. Police department and i have worked for ten years. What i'd like to do today is to just show presentation that was made back in nineteen ninety eight. He had a history of closing cases. He had a ninety percent success rate. He advocated for the victim and stood in their shoes. So that's why we've chosen the victims shoes as our podcast name. This really meant something to him and he really felt he needed to find the killer of this little girl and he needed to do that. For johnny and first and foremost we wanted to continue our grandpa's legacy that was one thing he asked for before he died. He wants to remain alive. There's a saying here in colorado. That boulder is thirty square miles of fantasy surrounded by reality. It's very wealthy. It's well to boulder look like something out of a story book in many ways especially the neighborhood in which the ramseys live john and patsy ramsey lived in a sixty seven hundred square feet. Tutor there on fifteenth street. But i'd like to do first is to just talk a little bit about the ranji family. John ranchi interested sailing. Fly as you. Ramsey was the mother john and patsy ramsey had two children together their firstborn was burke. Nine years old. In jon benet six and a half in kindergarten. I'm a daughter sister. I'm a friend. I'm a wife and mother. John used to tell people that. I invested in futures with the features of my children. That's how i usually answer my occupation. My name is john andrew. Ramsay shamanee's half brother. John would go around and ask everybody how their day was and what they did and just an energetic and fun kid by all accounts. They were happy couple. Patsy was a high society woman from atlanta. John was a smart guy. Who had just been nominated or voted as entrepreneur of the year. Patsy ramsey was a stylish woman. She was a former beauty queen. Miss west virginia. All that is interesting. Because the case had gained so much attention because jon benet was in pageants by the time jon benet was four years old. She was in the pageant system with big hair and lots of makeup. I think it starts with the video of jon benet. It starts with the fact that you have this beauty pageant video of a six old. That is where the starts is people started saying. What's that about. How could that played him. I think it also touches on parents who have young kids like. Could this happen to me. I really believe that. If we hadn't seen the beauty pageant photos of jon benet ramsey it might have just gone into the ether as another child murder. Hundreds of children are murdered in america every year. But this one captivated us because we saw the beauty pageant pictures. I'm patsy ramsey. This is jon benet. She's taller for seven. Well christmas themed. Be kind of a crescendo for our family Just became this moment. We all look forward to a day of peace and quiet. Christmas patsies favorite time and she really went all out. She had a christmas tree for every room and every tree had a theme. The windows were done with garland. The staircases had garland there were red ribbons everywhere. Everything was about entertaining and she loved people. She loved to make people feel good for all of us at our house to everyone. Your house. merry. Christmas and the happiest of new year's there was plenty to celebrate in the ramsey home. Patsy ramsey had recently been declared clear of this ovarian cancer that she had battled and that was a huge relief to come back from stage. Four cancer plenty to celebrate that christmas so on christmas day. The ramsey family opened presence at their home that morning. Patsy made pancakes. Johnny rode her bike around on the patio. And both jon benet. And burke had friends over to play that morning the kids went outside to play with their friends with their new presence. They were going to a friend's house for dinner that night. We were gonna leave early the next morning for a trip to our summer cottage in michigan. Who is going to be the first time. I've gotten all of our family together in michigan for kind of a post christmas celebration so we came home. We came went to bed Jon benet was asleep when we arrived home. We took her to bed. Burke to bed at the alarm went to Don't asleep the next morning. Patsy was up first. You get up you addressed. What happens. I went down our steps from our into second floor. Then i started walking down the spiral staircase and as i came to the vomit stairs worth three pages neatly laid across one of the runs stairway. She picked up the note and she started to read it. I just remember when i ran. We have her daughter just this overwhelming fear. And then i just screamed for. John screamed eighteen with going on a journey. Are you if you think you may be depressed. Or you're feeling overwhelmed or anxious better. Help online counseling offers licensed professional therapists. Who are trained to listen and help with issues including anxiety grief. Depression relationship and family conflicts difficulty sleeping. Lgbt matters trauma anger self esteem and more everything. You share is confidential simply. Fill out a questionnaire to help. Assess your needs then get matched with a counselor in under forty eight hours easily scheduled secure video or phone sessions and exchange unlimited messages to communicate with your therapist at your convenience. If for any reason your unhappy with your counselor you can request a new one at any time at no additional charge. Join the million plus people who have taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced. Better help counselor. Better help is also an affordable option and our listeners. Get ten percent off your first month with discount code. Twenty t. w. e. n. t. y. Get started at better. H e l p dot com slash t. w. e. n. t. y. I can. I was the call taker that night shift when the call came they straight out. Okay ransom note here. She was hysterical. And she says there's a kidnapping. Okay talk done. We just got the note. Said if you do anything if police combat fbi come your daughter will die. You call nine one one. I had to do something. I had take action in all this happened. In a matter of components patchy calls nine one one at five fifty two am and the first officer writes at five fifty five. Wow that's fast really fast. More friends start to arrive in more officers. Start to arrive at this point. Lots of people are at the house. We called friends for help your daughter as goals. She's in the hands of madman. My phone rain pam. They've got her. What do you mean they've got her. They've kidnapped jon. Benet she's gone. What was the atmosphere like as you sat and waited. Well it was. It was awful first of all. We didn't know whether the kidnapper was call that day because the note said i will call you tomorrow. Get plenty of rest. I was deathly afraid. The tomorrow was in fact. The twenty seven you lose our perception of time place. You just been dealt a horrible crushing blow. The police came in just before six o'clock in the morning on the twenty sixth of december thinking that we had a missing child they go into this beautiful house with eighteen or so rooms and they did a cursory search of the residents and they didn't find anything the mistakes they made. Were outrageous there mystifying. They were stake after mistake after mistake. The police did a terrible terrible job securing that scene. And if you don't secure the scene you don't get good evidence. People were streaming through that house. They were in the kitchen. They were in the living room. There was some friends of patsies that we're helping her wipe up. The kitchen could have been fingerprints there. You had friends that were windex in the sink. Washing dishes and people were making coast in the kitchen and yes kidnapping is a crime scene. But but we were so focused on getting. Jon benet back. That was the task. What we have learned is that everyone should have been sequestered into an area so that people were roaming around house and that was a mistake on my part. The reason i didn't is because these people were the ramseys support system. There was no information at all to indicate the family was involved. At that point it was a crime scene and it was getting contaminated. The note was being passed around and reviewed by their friends of all. The evidence left behind that ransom note is the most baffling number one. It is too damn long. A ransom note is not that long ransom note. Says i have your child. I want a million dollars. I'll call you later. This is the infamous ransom note. It begins mr ramsey. Listen carefully it was three pages long and some people believe that it can knepper that was truly kidnapping. Somebody would have written a very direct into the point rants and no three pages. What was that about that. Ransom note was the war piece of ransom notes. Who would write a three page rambling. Ransom note other than someone trying to cover their tracks. Who was in the house. If the weirdest note. I've ever read. You will withdraw one hundred eighteen thousand dollars from your account. One hundred thousand dollars will be in one hundred dollar bills and the remaining eighteen thousand dollars in twenty dollars bills. You think about this number in. How is it relevant in. It's relevant because john ramsey got a bonus from his company for one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars. Many people knew that. I'm gonna guess not a lot of people. Are grandpa compared the note to some examples. Saudi founded john. Be ransom was playing in boulder. Dr a that tap gesture list is something. A lot of the same verbiage the The note of if we catch you talking to a stray dog she dies. Used against you and your family are under constant scrutiny as well as the authorities don't try to grow a brain john not attempt to grow brain. Our guys short real watcher of the particular type of movies. Then what does this tell you in terms of evidence first of all that someone felt comfortable spending time writing this long note in the house and whoever wrote the note is about to go from a kidnapping suspect to a murder suspect. The ransom note. Who indicated there would be a call between it and ten. Am and the police. Prep me on how to respond in a phone. Call very important to here. John voice police officers were leaving at nine. Thirty nine forty five before that time period of the phone call had even expired one loan. Detective flipped on the c. detective. Linda aren't is left behind in the house with john and patsy ramsey. She didn't have extensive homicide experience. Managing a kidnapping and what was about to unfold. This was likely pretty for one. Loan police officer. Everyone is cleared but the family friends victim advocates and the detective so nobody was cleared. That doesn't make sense to me. Because everyone should be clear from the scene she she crashing straight piece. I was praying. Lynn aren't had said to me. We're hopeful that kidnappers will. We'll just drop. Jon benet off someplace and i kept looking out the window clutching this cross and just imagine that she was gonna come running down the street. They're waiting for a telephone call from the kidnappers. What's going to happen next. Kind of call comes and goes in. There's no acknowledgement that. The deadline imposed by the author of the ransom. Note has come and gone. Nobody seemed to market or freak out about it. She noticed john ramsey checking his mail in the kitchen thought. That was odd. Linda art tells the restless john to look around the house. If anything is missing or looks strange check the house. Top to bottom. Look for anything that might belong to. Bed is in place where it shouldn't be. John took profanity with him. They went to the basement and john opened the door. You opened the door to the small room. I knew instantly instantly. What i found i found my daughter. She's lying on a white blanket. The blanket was wrapped around her Her hands were tied above her head tape over her mouth. I immediately knelt down over her fellow. Cheek took the tape off immediately offered mouth. I tried to untie the core. That was around her arms. I couldn't get the knot. Tied picked her up. And i ran upstairs and myron floren still at a hope that she was alive. And i see john ramsey carrying jon benet at the last three steps from the basement. She looked like she was sleeping. She had some marks on her face. Not knelt next to her and on lean down to her face and john lee down obstacle and he asked if she was dead. And i said yes. She's dead as we looked at each other. I remember and a war shoulder holster talking my gone. Right next to me and consciously counting. I've got eighteen bullets. Why did she do that. Because i didn't know if we'd all be alive. When people showed up she clearly felt in danger at that moment. She made it clear that she thought that john ramsey killed his daughter and that they might kill her. It was shocking to me that she would think that. How is it that you have all these cops searching the home and nobody finds the body. But you asked john ramsey to go look for things out of the ordinary and he finds his daughter in a room that had never been opened by anybody in law enforcement. That's crazy. He lays her on the living room floor. Where just a few minutes before friends and neighbors have been walking and you know bring in fibers and whatever could contaminate the scene and then the khuda gras. He grabs a blanket which is full of who knows what kind of contaminants and throws it over the bombing. Patsy was being kept out of the room. And i didn't want patchy to see benet laying there like that. I remember walking in and seeing her lying there in front of the christmas tree. I knelt down over her and just laid my body on her body and cheek against her cheek and it was called father. Rawal was there. He started saying the last rites believe. And i just come saying. No no a Kidnapping out show has turned into the murder of benet. Ramsey was murdered and for riffing way many injuries to the little girl's body. We have the x ray of her skull which shows a fracture of massive. This is an eight inch skull fracture. So we're talking in major force. This is just a massive blow But the ultimate cause of death wish strangulation with something called a gherat brad. What type of a weapon is a garage. How does it work is a device of string and it's wrapped around would ends up being a piece of pink and what happens is as john. Manet is losing consciousness. She's leaning forward and so this gets tighter and tighter and you can see how it cuts into my hand. You can see exactly why it cut into her neck and then ultimately according to the is what kilter. It seems to me that she had been attempting to remove the ligature from around her neck. And that tells me she was alive when she was garad. There were signs. That jon benet had also been sexually abused. The broken pieces of the paintbrush that were used for the garage. Were also used to sexually assault her. What does it tell you about the murderer. Just how vicious awful. This death was for her person. That would do this to a six year old in this fashion clearly is into sort of sadistic behavior that they like torture to a certain extent. This is clearly somebody who was really into this and was here with the intent to kill. There was no evidence of break in. There was no jimmy on the front door. There were four people in that house and one died overnight from the very beginning. They suspected the parents within minutes from this was they were going to go after. And that's what they did. The police are thinking. We gotta talk to those parents and we gotta talk to them right now before they start getting their story straight. Together they brought johnny's body out past the candy. Canes that were decorating the front of the house in there were only like to reporters outside to capture that and then the storm happened. Jon benet ramsey. The little girl in colorado was murdered. Anything jon benet jon benet. Murder has brightened residents of boulder news outlets from around the world descended upon boulder and were just hiding in trees and digging trash following new around town and it was it was the only ramsey case was completely out of control. You also have to remember the oj. Simpson case had draft up the twenty four hour news cycle there content dried up and so along came the ramsey family. And we fit right into that slot jon. Benet ramsey was a precocious six-year-old. Strangle dan basement of her own hall. You have the shock this incredibly horrendous crime then you had these videos at surface of this beautiful young girl. Dancing costumes and those are the first viral video. That's part of what. Turn it into a international circus now. We have instagram and snapchat for back. Then this was one of the first moments in time where something truly went viral. This little girl's image was everywhere overnight. The biggest negative factor about john and patsy ramsey was that they had allowed their daughter to be in child beauty pageant contests and people did not like them as grant stated. This was brutal premeditated murder. Not just a little dog on the head covered up by perverted staging. It seems unimaginable to most parents out there that any parent could do something this brutal this heinous to their own child and yet police found evidence from the beginning that in their minds pointed directly to the ramseys. Particularly amy when you start with children of this age when they died tend to die at the hands of their parents to focus is naturally going to be on the parents to begin with now in the house. The ransom note is written on a pad the belong to patsy so this is the pet. This location right here is. The note was physically found by patsy. The pin that was used was in the house. So this is the garage. That was used in the murder of jon benet and it's a special significance because of what it was made from. Yes it basically is an artist paintbrush broken and what's important is that it actually came from passes art supply and there were even fibers on the back side of the duct tape that had been on giannis mouth from patsies clothing and that was very very important but there are problems because patsy lived in that house with those fibers. Have been there anyway. The police started thinking. Maybe this is just a cover up that the ramseys harmed their child some way then panicked and tried to create basically a kidnapping scenario. Patsy and john should have been taken to the police station immediately for separate interviews for examination of their body for defensive boons for collection of clothing. That never happened at this point. They haven't interviewed the mother or father not surprisingly. They're still very grief-stricken They have not been in any kind of condition to be interviewed a couple of days after he finds his daughter's body in the basement. Police speak the john ramsey. But this is not a formal interrogation or father myself. We all marched into that police station. Get blood we get fingerprints. The thing that really stuck with me is two detectives ham either business cards and one says narcotics officer and the other auto theft and i bury my head in my hands. 'cause i knew at that point. We're in a bad spot. Boulder police didn't have the resources to solve a complex homicide. John interviewed with boulder. Please patsies doctor. Said she was too medicated. At unable to get on a bed. The police for faced with lawyers and Wealthy friends people in the community. Who told the police please give them room. They're grieving what's the matter with you though. The police had spoken to the ramseys. What they really wanted to do was formerly interrogate them. The police are thinking we gotta talk to those parents and we got to talk to them right now before they start getting their story straight together. You're lawyer is advised you then not to submit to police questions. Why not people say. Wouldn't you have to tell them everything. Well i don't recall that are lawyers told us that at the time we said you know. Yeah we want to keep working with you but you come here. We can't go out. Passy was in bad. Bassey was barely able to move. We were perfectly willing and anxious to work with the police to find the killer. We had higher priority at that point and that was to bury. The family is lying. The body back to atlanta burial. On new year's eve jonbenet was laid to rest just outside of atlanta georgia. The services in loving memory. Jon benet patricia ramsey refer back to atlanta to bury shamanee atlanta atlanta. Be where my older sister better is buried we give. Thanks today for jon. Benet for the love that she had for her parents. I want to go back to the funeral. Whatever we do. We're going to go through it together. We may not get far but sure as the star where ever we are. It's together we saying that is saying that together in single driving in the car. We just knew that we would always be together. And everything wanted my children to know that. I was with them through thick and thin regardless of what happens in life. Unconditional love go places. Now every murder case that i've ever the parents are so grief stricken but they sometimes make a nuisance out of themselves at the police department the ramsey literally the day after benet funeral. Sit down for a television interview next thing. The police knew they were on cnn. The boulder police don't interrogate the ramseys bach. They remained the main suspects. Many people found the randy's behavior peculiar suspicious weird off balance and from that thought they must be guilty when you realize that you to were the prime suspects. What did you think. Why don't you feel what did you say. But we were outraged. How could they think that we were normal family. I didn't believe you just can't believe it. I mean we're suffering from having lost. Their child meant for someone to accuse. You just can't believe that happened. A lot of people said you know if that were me. I'd be on the steps of the police department finding the murderer of my daughter and they go on cnn and say they didn't do it. Anyone knows anything. Lee leave help is. We've sensed from our friends that Tragedy has touched not just ourselves and our friends but people as a mother. My heart went out to this couple. If i were a resident of boulder. I will tell my friends to keep cloth but my journalistic brain said to make. This isn't right. They should be talking the police not the public police and their ten day search of the ramsey house and remove the crime scene tape it is unknown. If the family intend to resume residency at the home we have no comment on the whereabouts of the family at this time. Starting from the beginning of this case we. The media lapped up with the boulder police department wanted to tell us about what they were doing. In the jon benet ramsey case for the most part the police were very tight. Lipped in this thing. They didn't tell us a lot of secrets. They didn't leak a lot of information. Other than broadly. We think the mom did people who believe patsy killed their daughter believe it was over a bed wedding and then staged to look like an intruder. Ooh the bed wedding theory was a big theory at the time. The bed wedding theory suggests that patsy was angry with jon benet and killed her because the bed was wet. I'm a cancer survivor of stage. Four cancer when you're standing on the brink of death with a terminal illness your priorities suddenly lineup. Bed-wetting wedding is totally insignificant. I love my children. I wouldn't harm them for anything in the world but americans were fascinated with the possibility that the ramseys might have done this. What happened in that house. Did she go berserk and hurt romney by accident. Not on purpose certainly. Did burke heard her by mistake and cause her death was leaked by boulder police that it was possible. That burke ramsey's boyce was on the nine one one call that patsy had made the nine one one operator believed that she heard an unexplained voice at the end of the nine one. one call. Patsy ramsey is put the phone down but she hasn't hung it up and the nine one one recording continues. I heard her say okay. Called the police now. What i thought And then i heard two people talking to her. And i heard a male voice respond and then i heard a more faint voice. Respond some speculated at the time that faint voice might have been burdened with family. Denied it saying he was asleep at the time. We asked an expert to weigh in on the call. My name is ed premium audio video forensic expert and i was asked about what people have heard throughout the years from this nine one one call we go pats speaking to the operator. We could clearly see bright yellow and orange colors as i zoom in to the recording. Here i can see the formats. This is a visual representation of sound the brighter the color the louder volume the sound changes right here the section in question where people are hearing voices we can see some sounds but we don't see the forms like we saw over here so i can't rely on those being words. There's just not enough signal to noise ratio in order to be able to perceive what those sounds are. They could be noise and they could be voices. I just can't as a scientist arrive at a reasonable conclusion. The secret service and the fbi also concluded that no additional conversation is audible. I think we've been way too much way on whether or not burke ramsey was present when mom makes the nine one one call if burks voice was there or john ramsey's voices there does that mean the killer and it's important to remember at the boulder police considered burqas suspect. They suspected the parents even though the ramseys had no history of abuse or neglect of their children. All the evidence shows me that up until this point they were devoted parents. Would you get up in the middle of the night and slaughter your job or parents. We love our children. There's so many puzzle pieces here that just don't fit. Do you really think your daughter's murderer will be found. Yes i do because the killer has never been pursued an objective wide investigation. Hasn't taken place. The parents have been focused on. That's all it's been done might be an unknown entity that not one of the suspects all been currently talking about and i. I don't think any of the suspects were talking about. We know that just within a few mile radius of the ramseys home there was proximate. Thirty eight to forty sex offenders in that area and the question is have. They all been completely. Was it an accident. Was it intentional premeditated. I want to say something to the person or persons that took this baby from us. The list of suspects narrows soon. There will be no one on the list. But you the grand jury couldn't point the finger at one or the other but they were convinced it was one of the two down and at the other one helped draw brush. Torch dedicated a big part of his life to find a job as burger. Technically smith was like whoa. You just said. I have a name i want you to write it down. Lou took all of the information that he had developed a database. Three generations of my family has been involved working on the giambi. Ramsey's first officer arrives at five fifty five. That's fast it's really fast lose. Smith's family believes that all one person on that list is innocent. We're better positioned than we've ever been to solve. The jon benet ramsey. John was an entertainer she would entertain at the drop of a hat perform natural. I competed with tom. Buzney wonderful costumes and outfits. And she had this presence. It wasn't really a competition to her. It was more of like this is fun. Let's go on stage and do that. Ninety minutes sean. And what is your favorite animal at the zoo. Today that little girl would be thirty years old. I was her age. She would be my age now. She would be pursuing her own career. She never got to grow up. She is first time now. The police were convinced. Pretty early on that patsy and john were involved and you had a district attorney's office there were saying not so fast and that created enormous tension between the two thirty. I think there are some new developments. Alex hunter the district attorney. Wanted someone to come in with fresh eyes in this case and look at it from the perspective of a defense attorney who might have killed jon benet as an intruder not just the parents but from the outside boulder. Da alex hundred brought loose-knit out of retirement to help solve the ramsey case. One of the great challenges to try to do the case right and you know. I think we're making efforts to meet that. Challenge by involving people like loose smith. The legendary investigator loose meant he had a history of closing cases such tenacity. He was a bulldog once she got something in his mind. What you got the reins in his teeth. He was not letting go. Loose-knit was my father. He was just known as the of that solved cases when he got to a murder scene he spent time dictating everything he saw where the sun was in the sky. What the weather conditions were like. What the neighboring houses looked like. I grandfather was a detective on one of the biggest unsolved murders in our generation prior to this case loose smith had invested over two hundred homicide cases that led to arrests and convictions. La- dedicated a big part of his life to finding johnny's murderer when he started his investigation. He felt like everybody else did. That was probably one of two parents as she sold. The parents were probably involved in it. I thought this would be fairly education. I thought it would be a slam. Dunk and i remember talking to my daughter. I got a joke with her. Know if somebody did get the house. must've been santa claus coming down the chimney with a couple of days after my dad's started on the investigation when he had a chance to review pictures the evidence that he was already saying. I think that they need to look the other way. He was already noting in his journal that he felt that they needed to look at an intruder. Lou came up with the intruder theory. You can't think about that theory without associating it with loose med. The first thing that stood out to him was an open window in the basement There was a suitcase propped up against it. He didn't by the boulder police departments conclusion that no one could get in that basement window. He began to save. Maybe somebody did get into that house a show you how easily it can be done. So what did they do. He went and climbed in the window himself with a camera rolling to prove that it could be done. It really wasn't that difficult coming in that window But some say that the idea of somebody going in the window is complicated by something else that spotted in the images of the crime scene. When you go to a photograph of the actual window there are cobwebs in the window which could support the. No one did go through this window. The big question is could you have gotten through this window. The small window without disturbing this cobweb. Think the answer to that is maybe but the other important point is. How soon was this picture taken after jon benet was killed because spiders can replicate webs very fast also found in the basement by jonbenet's body a shoeprint high-tech brand. That did not match any shoes in the ramsey house. And then there's the high-tech footprint as well. There's a high tech footprint next to john manet that i think the investigators believe in maybe rightly so that that's the bad guys with some argued the footprint could have been inadvertently left by police officers there at the scene but another factor lucent's investigation to strange marks on jonbenet s face and back. The marks themselves both on the back and on a face where the same distance suddenly a little light went on and it was just like wait. A minute was a stun gun. Smith look did. All murderers stun gun was known to have been used. He examined images of a crime victim. Who had a gnome stun gun. Injury or sugary shepherd trump. he also looked into an experiment. Performed using stun-guns on pigs. These marks were also the same as the marks found on. Jon benet we get perfect much just like the baggage. But this brings back our grandpa's whole motto. That things are usually what they seem. Don't make it complicated. No reason at all for the ramseys jesus's time and reggie's don't have stuff. If it's not a stub. What is that question was. That's utah so everybody sort of pooh-poohed and ridiculed the intruder theory until loose-knit started to stand up point out things that everybody else from the boulder pd to the general public that large had overlooked or dismiss. He said wait a second. We need to look at this again. It actually is possible. It actually is plausible and in his view of it. It's actually the most likely thing that happened. Beliefs and the district attorney are at odds the. Da is looking at the intruder theory. The police focused on the parents. But both wanna get the ramseys to come in for a formal videotaped interrogation. Go back to the damn draw. Do it loose. Smith thought that the ramseys were being targeted unfairly. Focus something drastically. I had seen evidence of an intruder within a few weeks of as murder. Police had an important clue. The discovery of foreign dna on her body of crime scene detective discovered dna underneath jonbenet's fingernails and in her there. That did not match anybody in the ramsey family. That was not something that was made public for quite a long time time. The next four days after as johnson detective loose man was like whoa while. You're pouring water all over the intruder theory. You're not revealing that you have found unidentified. Dna at doesn't match anybody. In the ramsey family. Lou is just incensed that the focus is still being well. It could be patsy. Maybe we need to get her to confess. The ramseys had been interrogated five police. Four months after jonbenet's death but now authorities want the ramseys to come in again for a formal videotaped interrogation. There were months and months of negotiations things about whether they could be videotaped. What are the questions going to be. Should the boulder police be a part of it. Because the ramsey said we don't trust the police we don't wanna they're ultimately. The interrogation took place at a different police department and at the end the border police had to watch it from another building. The ramseys finally sit down with the police for a videotaped interrogation in june nineteen ninety eight a year and a half after jonbenet's murder wednesday june. Arpad chris rams tom. Haney was one of the most respected homicide. Detectives at denver was chosen to interview. Patsy ramsey. patsy ramsey had a year and a half to prepare night news. That was going to be tough to get a spontaneous response. You ever recall purchasing. Why can't be a house in a world that doesn't have duct tape. Because i i never liked it. Because gooey gooey louie. He started out softly and kindly and curious and then he got pointed with questions and that made patsy angry vital right now. We have in the process. Dan trae seven years to late. You to the job tried to mind She said it was impossible. That we had physical evidence linking her to scientifically give. Line flipped to go back to the of drawn. I didn't and we didn't have a clue anybody i am. So taken with her swagger. She tells them you know. You think you have some some evidence me well. You better look again charles. Read my left eye now. She's very feisty. she's very combative. And that doesn't mean she's guilty but it does mean she's innocent either have been mark out. You're walking on a street. Child clicked stood loose. Smith was assigned to interrogate john ramsey. We're lou interviewed someone. He pride anything out of people by being understanding and listening touch. Was this tape wrapped around anywhere. Stuck down very firm. I thought john was much more measured and composed you. Don't see the drama. I see a lot of pain. Nap man looked the latch. The door new meaning you say was white lightning just do i think those those tapes were so intriguing to watch the bottom line is. There's nothing there that they could use to say. Aha ha we've got you. Both john and patsy deny in the interrogation that anyone in their family killed jon benet. My dad's conclusions after that interview were just firmed up his belief that the ramseys had nothing to do with this murder. Shoot personal studio so that they're trying as you directions interesting. My dad started getting frustrated as time went on because he felt that the case against the ramseys being slanted where no other evidence was coming in. I got to something drastically wrong and that there was a gross injustice. In this case i had seen evidence of an intruder that night. Liz smith thought that the ramseys were being targeted unfairly and he didn't believe the police were listening to him. Smith so strongly disagrees with the prosecutors. Focus on the ramseys that he is resigning from the case. Saying the case tells me. John and patsy. Ramsey did not kill their daughter. The rose a letter to alex hunter telling them that he couldn't be a part of the persecution of these people is how he termed it. He wrote. I intend to stand with his family. And somehow help them through this and find the killer of their daughter. My dad may have resigned from the district attorney's office but he never stopped work on the case he walked johnny shoes and he owed it to her. He felt to continue his investigation. One thing loose fought to do with tele grand jury. His side of the story the intruder theory. There were too many questions in particular that dna in the under appears to have been from a man didn't match any one thing grand. Juries arrived at the boulder county justice center this morning and were escorted into the courthouse by sheriff's deputies. I think alex hunter got shamed and colin grand jury. I mean he didn't do it until september. Nineteen ninety eight almost two years later. And i think the media pressure and the pressure from the police department forced him to do it. Good morning counts and remember. This is after oj simpson. We're most people think that evidence of simpson's guilt was insurmountable jury in the above entitled action. Find the defendant orenthal james simpson not guilty of the crime of murder and yet he walked. Alex remember that he told me one time. I don't want to spend two years of my life and five million dollars for the tax payers money and lose in court under said a grand jury for thirteen months or thirteen months. Those people heard over hundred witnesses. Name is johnson web. I was a grand juror on the jon. Benet ramsey case bothers me that the murder of a little girl like this has gone on unsolved for essentially a quarter century members of the boulder. Grand jury looked very much like detectives themselves as they finally toured the ramsey from crime-scene perspective. It was very disturbing how she was found. She's on a concrete floor a garage around her neck and she six years old. That's pretty harm. Web told us that the grand jury spent most of their time focused on two main issues. I who wrote that ransom note we heard from three handwriting experts and even though the handwriting experts couldn't definitively say that she wrote it. They all three came to the same conclusion that it could have been patsy ramsey. The ramsey defense team had their own experts who said that the comparison between the writing on the ransom note and patsies handwriting was not conclusive. We asked an expert to weigh in on the case. My name is jennifer naso. I am a forensic document. Examiner handwriting is a great piece of evidence to have because you can identify the writer of a piece of frightening throughout the ransom note. There's potential that the author attempted to disguise their writing. It doesn't look smooth and fluid. It's very very shaky. So it looks like someone was purposely trying to shake their hand to alter the way that the writing looks. This is an example from the ransom. Note where you see that kind of type written formation of the letter day. This is also from the ransom note. Were you see that regular printed. a there are similarities between the ransom. Note and patsy ramsey's writing however the similarities that are seeing are very general in nature their characteristics that many people execute within the writing so here is another example bis formation seen in the ransom note is two strokes where there's the stroke dour. The pen is lifted up and then the bowl is created right. Here again from the ransom. Note where it starts the formation of the bowl and terminates upward so down here are examples of patsy ramsey's known writing than you do see some of those formations again. That is significant that we see each of the formations represented but keep in mind. This is one letter from the whole ransom note. Is it possible that patsy ramsey roach ransom note. Yes is it possible. Someone else wrote the ransom note. Yes the grand. Jury believed that she grow the second. Focus for this grand jury. According to jonathan webb was the viability of the intruder theory smit actually presented his intruder theory to the grandeur photo. Taken of the dream. Lytle of i listened. Detective this what. The grand jury wasn't buying the intruder theory because of those cobwebs in the window. The intruder theory didn't make sense to the to the grand jury. The boulder police said photographed cobwebs. So for someone to get through a small opening like that and not disturb a cobweb remarkable and grand. Jury does not decide guilt or innocence. The where regular jury does the grand. Jury is only there to decide whether or not there is probable cause to charge the suspects with a crime. We were troubled by. To what level of confidence do we need to have to vote to indict. And as the preponderance of the evidence which means greater than fifty percent and soon after that we voted to indict. Patsy and john are accused of forbidding child to be unreasonably placed in a situation which posed a threat of injury. The child's life or health which resulted in the death of jon benet ramsey and then in the other one did unlawfully knowingly and feloniously render assistance to a person with intent to hinder the apprehension of the person. These two things together make it clear that the grand jury couldn't point the finger at one of the other but they were convinced that was one of the two of them and at the other one helped. This is souther news at. There is high anticipation in boulder. Right now for a ramsey decision. And we're about to hear an announcement from boulder da. Alex hunter taskforce believe we do not have sufficient evidence to warrant the filing of charges against anyone who has been investigated at this time. I was shot extremely unusual for a grand jury to vote to charge and the da charge. It was the right decision. I think it was the right decision. I think no matter what you think about the case i think that they would never have gotten to conviction. Thank you very much. There were too many questions. In particular that dna in the underwear that appears to have been from a man didn't match anyone they knew done all this work to try and vet the ramseys woodwork. Have we done to truly vet other potential suspects in this case. That's why lewis. Smith continued investigating even after. He resigned from the case. Louche make calls me cold. And i said to him. I been praying for somebody to call and one list. I believe a friend of mine killed him purpose. Ho kids left behind. I believe over nearly thirteen years. Lou took all of the information that he had in this case and developed a database in this particular murder. He thought that. Dna would solve this case but loose-knit couldn't have imagined the advances in dna that were to come advances. That would lead to a number of big surprises in the case what was developed at a single touch dna. So i just touched this picture touch table. I have now left skin cells on both locations in theory that could be scraped and they could match that up to my dna in two thousand eight the then district attorney for boulder. Mary lacy decided to do round of dna. Testing on jonbenet pajama more than a decade later. The items were requested tested and they found something new remember. The previous analysis had already found dna from an unknown male under jonbenet's fingernails and in her underwear. Now this new touch. Dna uncover dna from at least one annot male. Maybe two on her leggings as well. That's pretty big thing. That's a pretty clear indication that somebody else was there you've got. Da now in three places on jonbenet's body that doesn't match anybody in the ramsey family. Anybody and nobody knows. Who's it is. And so i think that's what drove district attorney to make a comment that she's basically not gonna look at the family and the longer. The news broke here at the district attorney's office with this incredible letter to jon benet father. Da mary lacy wrote john ramsey. We do not consider your immediate family including you your wife patsy and your son burke to be under any suspicion in the commission of this crime. John ramsey appeared on a local newscast. We're certainly grateful for the knowledge. The we are innocent. This wasn't intruder. Which course we've always maintained Somewhere somehow there may be a match to that dna. Then you've got your killer Archer job i. So this shortage stupid. A loose-knit spent years organizing and investigating the evidence in the jon benet ramsey murder case but eventually he ran out of time when he got sick with cancer he knew that his time was limited and so during that time he just talked to others about not letting this case di he had people coming every single day sixty seventy eighty people a day coming to see him and they said their goodbyes and during that time he would still talk about the case. I remember the last. Three days slipped coma in the conversations. Become one way. You know what i don't know if you could hear you're not very much an honor to be here to celebrate loose smith's life and to share my thoughts with you. I'm john ramsey. I had the opportunity to visit week before he died. Remarkably during that time together lou talked a lot about the case he hadn't given up he'd never never never gave up. When loose-knit died he passed the torch of the jon benet ramsey investigation. His daughter cindy mara and she took it and he just said i have a name. I want you to write it down. And i did and he said that's where you start. We'd be glad to pay that. We don't have love electron report so we would need boulder to send it after my dad died. You know a couple of us our family and in some of his old thomas side partners we just formed team go down to number two because that is an state one. What we all share in common is that commitment to fulfil lose dying. Wish that this case doesn't die with him. And i think it said devotion that respect that love for lou is what keeps our team moving forward. There were a whole host of other possible suspects. This is bill nick. Rentals local santa in town. There's no way in the world that i could be involved in the death of this girl. Daughter what a perfect suspect. Santa claus wouldn't that have just hide it all up in a nice little stated that if you can't show me a motive show me evidence of bad character if you can't show me evidence about character show me tea. Had condensed thing. He knew about every person of interest into a spreadsheet. The team that has family created is confident that the killers name is spread sheet. So what do we know about. The person suspected of killing jon benet ramsey the. Da says the genetic profile. The dna belongs to a male. There were a whole host of other possible suspects ranging from known criminals to friends of the ramseys brad. Investigators looked to be on the ramsey family. In fact there was some speculation into potential involvement by two local men. Correct correct here. You have gary oliver. He was a homeless man who hung out at a church. Just a block and a half from the ramseys home and he confessed that he killed. Jon benet ramsey. In fact he called a friend right after she was killed crying sobbing saying he just killed little girl they took a look at him but eventually eliminated him because there is absolutely no connection between he and ramsey's and his dna. They used that to eliminate him. This is a bill mcreynolds. Lil local santa in town. I was think santa claus for three years at their party. And i always liked to ramsey party. So i call patsy in particular and said it's time for our party in apparently jon. Benet had made a comment that he built. The grills was coming into their house to see jon benet. I think everybody thought that was a little weird. His dna did match and he's out of the picture and then this is someone who actually gets brought up quite a bit. This is michael hell and this was high on loose. Smith's list michael hill goth was an interesting character cosby cold. I said to him. I've been praying for so million call in one list. Mike said he he wanted to kill himself to get it over with. And that's one thing and then he said a partner. We're going to make fifty or sixty thousand. at christmas. He wanted to crack human skull. Michael hell goth evidently committed suicide the day after the boulder district attorney threatened that. Hey we're going to find you. The list of suspects narrows soon. There will be no one on the list but you so he committed suicide after authorities said they were narrowing their list but he had a stun gun any had high tech boots. Correct stun gun a bit odd for people to have high tech boots fairly common thing for people to have but the real clinch sure would be. Dna didn't match and he has no connection to the ramsey family so he was ruled out and he was ruled out. And then brad who could forget john. Mark karr of kuwait quite the headline today died accidents. No everyone probably around the world. John mark karr. Her death was was an accident. Yes problem is he was in boulder colorado when she died and his dna didn't match and that was it he was ruled out. What does it say about the state of this case in the possibility of ever solving it. Well that's a big question. We went through. The people interests the suspects and came up with our top twenty. Take a look at it and run it through their program with our team has been doing is focusing on collecting dna and testing dna. Do you wanna touch with any wants to. I think we should make the effort. You wanna just start like maybe in september. And since lou has castaway the team has been able to clear a number of people from that list however the work is pretty slow because at the time and expense involved in locating somebody on that sheet and obtaining their dna and then testing it we have asked suspects dna and in other cases. We've i guess. Don't it the old fashioned way with surveillance and Trickery we've gotten together and followed people and gotten a discarded or some such thing so that is evolving constantly. So we're in better position today than we've ever been to solve the jon benet ramsey case we are just trying to eliminate people from that list and we just figure if we keep at it hopefully will finally whittle it down to one person remaining on that list. Lewis family believes that all but one person on that list is innocent murder. Jon benet ramsey will ever be prosecuted. Is it still just as mysterious today as it was in one thousand nine hundred six absolutely. I think it's even more mysterious now to some degree because people have moved away from john and patsy ramsey possible saucepans. And so then and you're faced with this question of the was in that house. Why did they target her. And to some degree that makes it even more fascinating person brantley hutch most in september we met with the boulder. Da's office and pd and what we've presented was a confidential list of our hot twenty people interest and the list of eight people of interest that our team had eliminated through dna analysis We just don't feel at this point that they are actively investigating this case. The boulder police department says the ramsey case is an active ongoing investigation. But they have never publicly commented on the handling of the case. This team is going to give up. There's a third generation and my daughter's and others that will continue on with this case when we end up being too old to do it But we're not gonna stop investigating. We're just not going to do it. True wrench that's an intruder at intruder. Indicate took its toll on a grammy emotionally and financially over the year and john ramsey with lose his job and spend millions on private investigators. lawyers and purity. There's still people today. John twenty two years later. Who believe you or pat. Burke had something as i know that in how they believed otherwise because as i told you even if we have a conviction confession and this person's prison there's going to be five. Ten percent of the population is still thinks guilty. My dad certainly suffered a tremendous amount. But i think this focused on wife today and enjoying life with his family and grandkids and he's remarried. Pets died from cancer in two thousand six. She's buried in marietta georgia next to jon. Benet day my mind. She's still my six year old little girl. That's how i remember her. Every once in a while see a little child from behind one yet ponytail girl but six years old and it catches me for a second because it looks like jon benet. The family has not lost the will to fight in the will find the killer. We work on this daily. There's a group of dedicated volunteers that were this daily. I want the trauma to stop for the family. And if we can find the killer and the next generation doesn't have to live with that trauma and the unknown and the speculation. Only way to do that is to find out who did it. I think it's really important for people to understand. This case can be solved. There's a narrative out there that this is an unsolved homicide and next week. We just have to accept that as fact and that is not the truth. We leveraged the evidence. We follow the facts. We will find this killer. I used to give people might trust. And i was there to lose. Everybody carries a burden. They struggled with wasser heartbreak. But everybody has to have hope just recognized. There could be around you.

jon benet jon benet ramsey patsy ramsey boulder john ramsey Benet ramsey Jon benet john Patsy jonbenet patsy John Benet ramsey ramseys atlanta colorado jon benet Ramsey
JonBenet Ramsey Short Case Version!

OWL Once Was Lost Podcast

16:34 min | 3 months ago

JonBenet Ramsey Short Case Version!

"Thursday welcome to the owl once was lost podcast. He Companion podcast to the owl once was lost phone application for missing persons wage. They want to thank our new patreon supporters who have decided to help out the cause downloading the owl once was lost phone app for both IOS and Android as well as subscribing to the podcast wage. Both of these links are also in our show notes. The purpose of this episode is to give a just a much more simple dive into the Ramsey case. The previous four episodes are filled with small details for those that enjoy that kind of information for those not familiar with the case. You're going to find that this is a much much more refreshing version. Even I found the long version filled with many friends of the family as well as business partners. A lot of the detectives just a lot that you had to follow there. And of course you've got family of the business park. As well, mr. Ramsey and it was just a bit tedious but it is a complicated case. So, please enjoy this shortened version of the Jon Benet Ramsey case. Please page five stars for us. If you haven't done that yet. If you indeed enjoyed the episodes and especially us going this extra mile to give you the more simplified version of exactly what happened in this case wage and along obviously with a couple of theories and who knows maybe one of you has a theory or knows even what happened and you can always reach us at the once was lost podcast at gmail.com. So let's just get right into the case. If you even so much as looked at a US Weekly in the grocery store checkout counter in the last twenty-five years or more. You probably know who Jon Benet Ramsey is the six year old beauty queens mysterious murder has been tabloid fodder for as long as Millennials can remember but beyond the made-up glamour shots in the basic details, how much do you really know about the case of JonBenet because it is probably weirder than you ever imagined. Jon Benet Ramsey was a six year old beauty queen. Six year old Jon Benet lived with her family in Boulder, Colorado her mother Patsy her Father John and her older brother Burke. He was nine at the time of the murder on Christmas night 1596. The ramseys hosted a party at their house in Boulder Colorado the ramseys put Jon Benet to bed at around 9 p.m. The next morning at 5 a.m. Patsy Ramsey woke to find a three-page ransom note on the stairs the note claimed that someone had kidnapped Jon Benet, of course, the police were called. Jon Benet was missing and according to the ransom note or parents would need to pay $118,000 for her safe return just a very strange amount. Just why does it have to be 818 thousand exactly the note stated that the kidnappers were going to call between 8 a.m. And 10 a.m. With instructions for how to drop off the money. Whoever wrote The Ransom note. I never did call the family in the cops waited, but no call came sometime after the ransom call Window the cops asked the ramseys to check the house again for anything that was missing or out of place that they could use as evidence John was the one that actually discovered Jon Benet during this search John and a friend immediately went to investigate the basement after the cops asked them to scan the house a few minutes later. John came up the stairs carrying the body of JonBenet. He had found her in a back room in the basement. Jon Benet had died from both blunt-force trauma and also strangulation wage. Her body also showed signs of sexual abuse. The ramseys murder had a lot of really weird elements to it. So we're going to find out what the rest of those are our while. There are a lot of theories that case still hasn't been solved. Many people suspect that the ramseys themselves killed their daughter others think that a sexual predator broke into the ramseys home and killed JonBenet but there are definitely a lot of other weird details about the case that nobody can explain the ransom note wasn't even typical of a ransom note according to the police the ransom note. The ramseys found was very unusual. First of all, it was only three pages long or we could say it was three pages long that it was a very long note. That's really really long for a ransom note compared to most others. So what more do you really need to save sides? We have your daughter and you know, how much money do we want apparently a lot. So there was a lot of other additional details, they're spread out over those three pages The Ransom note was incredibly he's a d going on for those three pages about who the kidnappers were what they were going to do with Jon Benet and other strange Superfluous information the note ask for exactly $118,000. As I mentioned earlier for Jon Benet safe return which was a significant number to John Ramsey 118,000 sounds pretty random. Why not ask for a nice round two hundred thousand. But this phone number may have been precise for a reason. It was almost the exact same amount of money. John Ramsey had received as a Christmas bonus earlier in the month, which could mean one of two things either the kidnappers new John had received this amount of money as a bonus and that he would have it or John wrote the note himself trying to make it appear that someone who knew his bonus amount was the kidnapper the note all she used very strange language. The long rants have no claim to be from a very small foreign faction. What exactly is a small Ford faction, right? Nobody is quite sure. It also keeps saying that the kidnappers would be head. Jon Benet, if the money wasn't given to them in a brown paper bag after what they described would be an exhausting delivery for John it ended with a strange dog. Turn off of Victory. It is an all-around weird note because of its strange language and we're demands some people think the note was fake. But the weirdest thing about the note is on the next page. It came from inside the house. The police were able to determine that the note was written on paper that came from the ramseys house itself, which means If there really was a kidnapper they would have found that at the idea to break into the house kidnap Jon Benet and hand write a three-page long Ransom note all while the family slept. It seems a little risky to come to a kidnapping without a note prepared by with the kidnapper take the time to write three entire pages and risk getting caught the weirdest part of the kidnapping was that there was no kidnapping. Jon Benet was discovered in the basement after several hours. Apparently the police hadn't searched the house thoroughly enough to discover her body until hours after they recalled in the basement were job was found. There was a broken window and a footprint on a Suitcase underneath that window. It's possible if there was an intruder this is how they got in. However, there were no footprints in the foot of snow outside the ramseys house and there was a spider web across the window that was undisturbed. If someone had broken in through that window that spiderweb likely would have been broken John Ramsey claimed that he accidentally broke this window before the murder. But where did the footprint come from? Was it a badly done set up by John to make it appear that someone had broken in did somebody really break in through the window or was it all just college students in a weird thing about that suitcase? The ramseys claimed that it wasn't theirs and they didn't know how it got into the basement. The suitcase was examined by police and it was found to contain see Minaj. I said blanket and a dr. Seuss book, but that's not the weirdest part the semen belong to another family member John's oldest son from a previous marriage. He didn't live with the ramseys though, but the the lease for able to to prove he wasn't in Boulder at the time of the murder, but a lot of people think differently about this and that a different family member was responsible. So let's find out some people leave that Burke the sun actually killed JonBenet by accident and his parents help cover it up, but there are some flaws to this Theory. The theory is that per could kill the Sister by accident perhaps by accident hitting her over the head with something heavy or hitting her and anger and then his parents wrote the note and tied Jon Benet up in a basement to make it look like a kidnapping but Jon Benet died of both blunt force trauma to her head and strangulation. She was found tied up with a cord around her neck and it was shown through autopsy that she was still alive when this was happened when she was actually strangled if Burke had accidentally killed his sister. Why would she have been both beaten and strangled? Jon Benet also had pineapple in her stomach the autopsy revealed that Jon Benet had chunks of pineapple in her stomach when she died in Ramsay's Kitchen a bowl of pineapple with Burke's fingerprints on it was discovered often. Does this mean some people think it's possible that an argument over the pineapple cause Burke to actually attach. Jon Benet Burke had displayed Disturbing Behavior in the past before dead. So there are rumors which Burke denies that Burke had smeared feces on the walls of his sister's room and in her bed, it's possible that Jon Benet was being sexually abused dog. She was found with a drop of blood in her underwear and some signs that she may have suffered sexual abuse in the past. Her mother had taken her to the doctor for a vaginal irritation in the past but claimed it was from a bubble bath her body shown his strange marking that looked like it could have been from a stun gun as well on her back. Jon Benet had two small dots that looked like they could have, exactly from how it's done. God be used on a person. So the nine-one-one call was also very suspicious. The ramseys were cleared of the crime by DNA evidence, but the crime scene was completely contamination. So it's hard to make any real conclusions out of this. There was DNA found on Jon benet's underwear that couldn't be matched to anyone in the family as well. But it also couldn't be matched to anyone in the police dog. Pays so who is this DNA from it's not clear at DNA Specialists argued that it could have come from the factory where the underwear was made though. I'd find that to be highly improbable besides the mysterious DNA the crime scene was completely contaminated since the ramseys and their friends were in the house all day before the body was found and according to the investigator of the ramseys am very strangely all day while they waited for the phone call from the kidnappers before they found the body jonbenet's parents barely stayed in the same room with each other. They also didn't even mention that the kidnappers never called. The police and the family waited for hours for the kidnappers to call between 8 a.m. And 10 a.m. As indicated by the note, but nobody did according to the investigator on the scene. Nobody mentioned that the wage would past which she found odd the nine-eleven call had some very strange elements to it when Patsy called 911 to report her daughter missing. She used some pretty strange language. She said we have a kidnapping when she explains why she is calling this type of passive language. We have a kidnapping verse. My daughter has been kidnapped has been linked to lying down. C also didn't even mention Jon Benet until a few sentences into the nine-eleven call. She talked about the kidnapping and the note but not that her daughter had was gone at all. This doesn't necessarily mean anything but you would think that the first thing you would tell the nine-eleven operator if you woke up to find your six year old daughter missing was that your six-year-old daughter was missing. That's where you would say Patsy a month. Even hung up on the 911 call Patsy was the one who ended that call. This is not typical usually people stay on the line with 911 until police get there or until they know for sure that the police going to get there soon pass. He didn't wait long on the line to get additional details or two here if the police were on their way she hung up. So abruptly the nine-one-one operator asked if she was a guy there but who else besides the family could have killed her. So although many people suspect the ramseys a few other suspects in the case of being considered unsurprisingly. None of them seem to fit back from whatever small foreign faction is I mean, what is this for for an faction once best suspect I'm sorry was a man who dressed as Santa Claus and asked his wife to mix his ashes with a vial of glitter from Jon Benet, which had been given to him when he died. I find that to be very strange. Obviously, Jon Benet knew this guy Bill McReynolds from Christmas parties where he often dressed up as Santa dead. She had given him a glass jar of Jitter one glitter one year, which he took with him into heart surgery and asked to be mixed with his ashes but beyond This creepy Behavior towards Jon Benet. There isn't a ton of evidence that he could have killed her. He is now deceased and no word of his cremation or the glittery substance has been talked about since a known sex offender claim to have heard a little girl the night of Jon benet's murder Gary Oliva Olivia. I'm sorry was the sex offender who lived near Jon Benet. He called a friend the night of the murder upset claiming. He had heard a small girl. Strangely. He also was found with the same stun gun marks on his body that Jon Benet had that is strange a school teacher actually confessed to the murder as well. But was later found to be lying find those cases so strange, but they happen quite often of people admitting to to murder cases. It happens much more often than people think the school teacher named John Mark Karr reached out to a prestige. Sure, who is making a documentary about Jon Benet and told them that he was the one who had killed her after sexually abusing her but police were able to prove that car wasn't even in Boulder at the time of her murder and just wants the fame which is truly disgusting. Some people think that Katy Perry is JonBenet Ramsey, which is even stranger. This one is kind of silly though. There are rumors on the internet Katy Perry is actually a grown-up Jon Benet and that the murder never happened. This basically makes no sense because why would you fake a murder only do then have your daughter reappear as an international Superstar? Ten years later. Also Katy Perry is ten years older than Jon Benet. So anyways, we're going to leave that at that so that ends at I hope that was just a much simpler version for everybody to go through and hear the different suspects and it you know, if you ask me the ramseys acted extremely suspicious through this entire matter and The Sun Also birth. Or they get found some of his, you know DNA and he had also showed other signs of acting strangely at that time that you know, allegedly. He is the one I most people think had some kind of problem with his little sister and probably accidentally hurt her but as far as the sexual abuse again, you know that could come from anywhere with these little girls that are going to these these pageants. I don't want to say anything bad. I'm sure a lot of them are very Innocent. But again these ages are so young. I don't even know what to say about it can be honest with you. So please hit the five stars for us. So they make sure that those algorithms or pushing in our favor and that people can find the podcast and make sure and subscribe. Also, please may you do anything just please get the phone app get the album once was lost missing phone app on iOS or an Android God forbid the worst happens someone in your family goes missing. You can upload that information immediately and people within your area. We start within a 40-yard 40 from sorry 40 mile radius and re able to search within that first crucial hour and wage that's going to end it. Thank you guys, and we'll talk to you next week.

Jon Benet Jon Benet Ramsey Jon Benet Burke murder John Mark Karr kidnapping Patsy Ramsey JonBenet Ramsey ramseys house JonBenet Boulder ramseys Ramsey Katy Perry US Weekly patreon
Dave Ramsey: "I Got To Know Him On The Way Down"

Journeys of Faith with Paula Faris

35:35 min | 1 year ago

Dave Ramsey: "I Got To Know Him On The Way Down"

"Are you hiring with indeed you can post job in minutes set up screener questions than zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started today at indeed dot com slash ABC. That's indeed dot com slash ABC. This week's guest is Dave Ramsey. This is a guy who built his entire empire on helping others get out of debt. So we do the interview at Ramseys headquarters in Nashville Tennessee, and what really struck me about his entire staff. They were so gracious and so generous he says that generosity all stems from his faith, which he found as an adult and prior to finding his faith. He calls himself a hell raising beer-drinking hillbilly on this episode. We're going to talk to Dave about what keeps him grounded and how his faith informs how he handles his money. So here we are with Dave Ramsey in his radio studio just outside of Nashville at Ramsey solutions studios. If you haven't heard about Dave Ramsey, you need to know about him. He is a wildly popular radio personality. The Dave Ramsey show. You written seven bestsellers you built an empire by helping people get out of debt view, their money responsibly, give generously. And I know that my family we've been big fans of you for a very long time honored. Thanks. I want you to tell people what it is that you do for those that aren't familiar with. You are organising nowadays is called Ramsey solutions. And basically, we produce trusted content. We call it in several spaces the career space. The money's pace, the leadership space personal development space agree up under what you're talking about me teaching people on the Dave Ramsey show. About how to get out of debt. So that they can Bill wealth and live their dreams and be outrageously generous. And so grew up onto that me teaching folks how to transform their lives in that area. And and now we've got Ramsey personalities here. They're six of us that that speak and teach and write books and so forth. And that's the the succession plan if you will or the way to get to more folks than I can get to by myself. And so within that context, obviously were you know, we've got a huge curriculum a lot of broadcast things and podcast things going on and all of these different areas. And so there's about eight hundred on the team right now, we're doing a whole bunch of stuff and all of those spaces so oh about eight hundred. It's kind of scary put it all started really with from what I read it all started from a card table in your living room cycle. And after failure. You were a millionaire at twenty six years old, and you lost it all and then you built this multimillion dollar. How did you come back from from filing bankruptcy in from failure? It was for us. It was his failures epic. The bomb was dropped on our lives because Shannon. I we've been married thirty seven years. And so we started off broke, and we didn't have anything, and I started after a couple of jobs ended up started buying and selling real estate. I grew up in the real estate business. Momma. Daddy, we're in the business. And like you said I built a portfolio of real estate from nothing by the time. I was twenty six we had about four million dollars worth. And we're making a couple of hundred thousand a year which in the neighborhood, I grew up in we call that rich. It was pretty sweet we were having a blast. But I'd done a lot of stupid stuff. And I'm like borrow too much money in the Bank got sold to another Bank and called her notes. And we spent the next two and a half years of our life going through that epic crash of losing everything and starting over and so with a brand new baby and a toddler and a marriage hanging on by thread. We got the opportunity to start over from faith perspective. I do everything backwards. I didn't grow up in church, or you know, in a place where we talked about faith much, and so I actually met God as young adult on the way up when I was making that first fortune. But in losing it all I got to know him on the way down. So you build it all back up, but you had to lose it, all I. And what I love about your principles though, Dave is that you really focus on generosity getting out of debt. But you just mentioned it what kind of role. Do you think faith plays in being a good steward of your money? Will your worldview? Whether you don't have faith. That's what we're overview or you've got one of the various religions Christian included affects your decision making because it's your belief paradigms. And so based on that I'm going to make decisions, and you know, we hear this thing all the time on a public figure crashes. Oh, he made bad decisions. Now, you make decisions you bad beliefs that caused him to think that that was possibly on some planet gonna be okay, right to treat that person that way, and he wasn't going to come out. I mean, come on, you know, and so they had a bad belief system. It was arrogance. That led them believe they were bigger than everybody else. They could get away with crap. I don't whatever it is. You know? And so your belief system leads to that. And so I'm sometimes still criticized by Dame. I don't like you mixing all your Christian stuff into your money. I'd listen to you more. If you just didn't do that Christmas stuff separate the tin cans like saying, you know, it's like is going to have a Chevrolet truck. But it's not Chevrolet. I just can't do that. It's who we are. And here's the. Thing though, because your belief system. I think I would be teaching you. I really honestly believe be teaching you inaccurately if I didn't teach you based on what I know to be truth, and it's not. So you can't separate you religion from your marriage. It affects how you treat each other. When you're married, you can't second separate your faith, walk from how you treat your kids because it affects how you treat your kids informs, how you raise kids and informs how you are a leader inside exclusive the can't be right. So if you if you truly believe as an atheist or an agnostic, then that's going to inform how you lead people. It's going to inform how you handle money your belief system. Does that so to leave it out of the discussion of personal finance? It would be an incomplete discussion. It's actually on its intellectually insincere, right? What's unique about your jury? Is you? Identify as Christian, correct, Tom shillue. So what do you believe I'm evangelical Christian, which is not popular? So. It does not mean ignorant redneck, by the way. But. It means I'm a bible believing Christian even Jesus crisis on a God who rose on the third day. And I placed my sins on him. And I believe that. And I believe that the bobble is the word of God. Which is what they even Jellico community believes as well. But you were not raised in the church. No, not at all. No. So were you raised where you agnostic atheist for most of your life or not my parents fault? But I would say I was hedonist. It was pretty much out for Dave. And the the interesting thing is is that hedonism is where you act in your own self interest all the time and the weird thing about my take on scripture, and what I teach is that it actually ends up being in your self interest generosity ends up being in your self interest. Because generous people are grateful people and humble people which are highly attractive, and so it ends up being in your self interest to be generous. Right. You know, it's not hedonism. It is different. It's based on a rooted in a real religion in a in a real belief system. But, but yeah, I was just a little hell raisin beer-drinking hillbilly kids. When I was you know, you got into a little bit of trouble more than once such as. I've still got children alive. So really what what what Mark this transformation? Here you go from self-described hedonist to becoming a man of faith. What happened? What changed? Well, my wife, and I never talked about religion or anything for we got married, and we were so dumb. We didn't do real pre-marriage counseling which really ought to do because they stuff would come out. And if we didn't talk about it. I assumed we weren't worried about it. And so I that was dumb as we were kids or twenty two years old. So we get married and moved to Nashville got married at twenty two. Yes. And she she woke up on Sunday. And remembered she was a Baptist. And she said we're going to church, and I said, we're not going to church Sunday. I'm drinking beer and watching football. Do you ever been to church before that couple times? I grew up in Nashville. There's more Baptist there than people. So, you know, everybody's a Christian, you know, so to speak. But so we have big fight, and she leaves, and you know, she's Baptist didn't take her long to find her tribe. They're everywhere. And so she went there, and then I went to a a sales conference with this thing. I was in and a guy there started talking about how God changes the way, you view relationship with people which will change your propensity to succeed in business that if you don't value people you're gonna treat them like a transaction. And you're always gonna struggle in business. But when you treat them like a relationship like God does then you'll succeed. And I thought oh, this is part of the formula success, I'm practical, I'm gonna check this out. So I came home to my wife, we're going to church too. I want to do because I want to be successful stock started with selfish motive. So Billy Graham was quoted as saying that a lot of people come to Christ on a selfish motives, I came on Shurmur going to church, and she's like are you won't have you done my husband. But we we started visiting some churches and short version of story is we found a little church that actually I could connect with the people there with my values and with the thing, and they were winsome attractive and walked me in a very young man into a faith journey into acceptance of Christ and they'll start out of selfish motives, she wanted to be a good businessman. No, I believe the guy on the stage. I thought he's right. That guy's got credibility. And he says something money to have as a part of my life in order to succeed. I'll look into it. And then I got sucked in and by quality people. And that's generally how relationships are generally how people approach their faith. Did you feel that you had changed from the get-go or has it was it a slow evolution? Well, it was. There was so much change to do. So ugly that there was a there was a big change from the get-go. But there was still a lot of work to do after that. So there was more than just a big change to do. So. Yeah, Sharon would tell you today that she's really glad she's not married to her first opened. And. What were some of those changes you needed make I almost never get angry anymore, and I was a pretty angry person? And that makes you really lousy husband in a worse father. And but that was from that self in that frustration and driving ambition, and I'm still very passionate and sometimes because I'm so loud and gregarious people think I'm angry, but I'm not hardly ever get really angry anymore almost never happens. Do you think that because you found your faith later in life? You have a different perspective and a greater appreciation for that. Maybe somebody who grew up in the church or they grew up going to temple. I don't know. I mean, I don't know if it's greater it's different how it's different because it's for me. It's not assumed if you grow up, and like my kids did or my grandkids are in you know, is part of the rhythm of your life. And God is part of the rhythm of your life scriptures learning scriptures learning live by these this worldviews part of the rhythm of your life. Then it is assumed. And they're always reaches a crisis point in faith, as you reach adulthood, where you have to has become your parents faith has to become your faith. And so that that those kids had to have that crisis mine, and my grandkids will have the same thing. But that's different because they've got this. They've got a foundation and they've got something to reach back to for me. It was all Hugh. It was like I had discovered, you know, a world class art for the first time or I had discovered well written fiction for the first time, and it was beautiful. It was fresh and gorgeous. You know, weird thing is it's been thirty years in still that way to me really it still feels fresh and new. Yeah. I mean, I still find stuff in scripture. Not have. Wow. Are you are you in scripture daily? Truthfully. No I quote scripture because I've got so much of a memorized. But and it's it's become part of the rhythm of my teaching style and those kinds of things so the, but that doesn't count because that's not me receiving. That's me delivering so. But I I I'm I'm in there a couple times a week, and depending on what's going on in how how my is doing and how deep can get I used to read, and I generally I don't do as quite as much. But I almost always read a proverb a day who's thirty one of them. If you read proverbs over and over again you get wisdom. Sure. And so and that was something I was seeking wisdom. Hebrew word. Wisdom means the art of living life, well, and I wanted to live my life better. And so I needed that book. Wisdom has been it's been one of my favorite books. So you have a multimillion dollar empire. How do you stay grounded? I have the unbelievable benefit of having gone broke. She I don't think I'm important. And if I thought it was important, I'm married to a lady who share them not. And I've I've surrounded myself with people who understand that. There's no superman Cape around here. We've just worked hard and told the truth and love people. And there's no there's no magic sauce, and Dave hasn't got the corner on some kind of a little weird thing. That's you know, there's nothing like just a guy. I'm just working my butt off. Well, everyone around here that we've spoken to speak. So highly of you you've really bread generosity in your staff. I mean, everyone has been so kind in so gracious and generous not just they've been generous in spirit, good and their kindness. So and they speak very highly of yet so much as your work with people like this. And it's just I mean, we've all worked in those places that are like that. So we win best place to work every year. And those are the reasons we have a pretty low tolerance all of us. Here have pretty low tolerance for somebody deciding that there is it if somebody thinks access to the world runs to the top of their head they don't fit in around here. So you just you just mentioned how. Do you stay grounded? But how does your faith keep you grounded? Well, I think it reminds me that my heavenly father is absolutely crazy about me. And Scott, he's got a plan for me. How can you say that your heavenly father is crazy about you scriptures real clear on it? Plus, I've experienced it. I mean, I've experienced him holding me in his hand. When I was crushed. I had an unbelievable piece the passes all inter standing. I was bankrupt with two little kids. It's that's that's nice logical. Hey, make sense. And it wasn't like I was lazy or it wasn't a kind of a piece, but it was just thing of. Gotcha. Got you. And when I run into huge obstacles, and huge is always relative may when I got eighty people obstacles or huge one level. Now got eight hundred there's two goes there lose a huge another level. I always feel like out. He's got you. I got you got you back. I got your front. I got your side. And he he's never. Early and and seldom late he just shows up. And we see these weird. Intersections of things going on that when you watch them unfold, and we see how the he has been you know, how these other people call coincidences that have occurred in the last twenty five years of building this from a car table on our living room. There's no I mean, I work really hard. And I'm pretty smart. There's a level. I could have brought this to but you could not explain it based on that the what we've been able to pull off. I mean, the level we've been able to pull it off is called blessings, and it's it's a little weird, honestly. But it's so weird that to not acknowledge God's hand in it would just be again, it'd be intellectually insincere do you ever have moments where you question whether God exists, and how do you work through those? I don't now. I did when I was at the bottom. I had this piece one minute and the next minute. I'm like, yeah. If you're real where are you? If you're real give me a sign. Yeah. We'll are like pay the light Bill because I mean, it's getting cold in here, you know, and that kind of stuff so there was that kind of thing. But he's not, you know, had a bible teacher back. Then when it was in that teach me God's not concerned about your circumstances. He's concerned about how you react to your circumstances. He's concerned about building you not your circumstances. And so, you know, we sometimes we've done events that by the math and the profit and loss statement were complete failures. And. I did one that we lost two hundred seventy eight thousand on on way back many many years ago. And it was a live thing. We're putting out over satellite and all this stuff, and it just bombed who's just horrible. And I mean it and we don't borrow money. So that was a lot of money, and we have a lot of millions like it didn't it didn't put us out of business, but it hurt really bad financially. And you know, I still meet people a decade and a half later to say, you know, I went to that thing saved my life. It's I was getting re commit suicide, and you show me this or we were getting ready to get a divorce, and it saved our marriage, or you know, I was about to file bankruptcy, and I didn't have to because of that event. I'm like where were the rest of you because we could've used a profit on that thing? But you know, but it was you know, in God's economy. He would spend some of his money for those people and send us to do it. And so we have to step back and go. Yes, sir. On our way, sir. We're going to charge the hill. We don't know. How many of us are gonna make it up the hill on up the hill? Yes, sir. And and and yet he's never been unfaithful in. This thing has grown every year year over year intially it has. After the break. Dave reveals just how bad things got in his marriage and what pulled them through. With the Capital One venture card. You earn unlimited double miles on every purchase every day, and you can use those miles toward travel expenses. Like flights hotels, rental cars and more capital. One. What's in your wallet credit approval required capital? One Bank USA NA when it comes to hiring. You don't have time to waste you need help getting to your shortlist of qualified candidates fast. That's why you need indeed dot com. Get started today at indeed dot com slash ABC. That's indeed dot com slash ABC. You've listeners of many different faiths. Oh, yeah. Definitely. And you do, but how do you explain the existence of God? I don't know if I'm enough of a theologian or a philosopher to get into that. All I know is that is my personal walk. I've seen him show up. I've seen circumstances that raise the hair on the back of your head on the back of your neck, and you go. There's no explanation for that. It doesn't even make sense. And yet that just happened right in front of me, I've been on the air taking calls, and I suddenly knew what was going on in the person's life. And there is no reason to as if you are a prescient as if some as if God spoke to my mind, really, and and you know, I was talking to a lady one day, and she's telling me this about her boyfriend and her boyfriend disner boyfriend that and I said how long has she been hitting you? It got real quiet, and she waited too long to go. He's not I said, you just lied. We're going to get you out of there. And before I was done. The call screener had the local domestic violence shelter on the phone, and we got her out of there that day because he can kill and I don't how do I know that. I don't wanna do that. I just sitting there talking to this woman. You could just feel it somehow. You can't explain Dave Ramsey is not that smart. Difference between wisdom and knowledge older is but neither one of those were true unless you want if you to take it from Chris Matic Christian viewpoint say, it was a word of wisdom or. You know, it was a Holy Spirit wisdom, you could say that that wouldn't argue that point too too strenuously. But I really my point is stuff has happened around here that I can't take credit for and so that in my personal experience, I can say I've experienced God, you were talking about your faith while back, and you said one of the things on a real basic level was that I started just realizing by telling observation that order doesn't come from chaos. That's a physics principle. Chaos comes from order, and then you talked about an analogy that one of your friends who's a rabbi. Daniel weapons. Yes. Can you? Tell us about that analogy because I loved it. Sure. If Argun remembered, it's the if you put marbles in a jar is that and they're two different colors of marbles, and you shake them up. And they get the blue in the white marbles all intertwined you can shake that jar forever, and they will never be separated again. Right. Those there's no no number of random shakes. You can do that. It will ever get you to where those are separated. So for there to be order has to be a created order. Otherwise, you just believe in chaos, which you know, some folks that are atheists that are very intelligent see chaos all around them, and I see chaos to but I see more order than chaos, and I see cause and effect. I see when you plant things things grow. When you don't plan things things, don't grow, and what you plant generally grows. And so these are these are causing affect things that are signs of an ordered universe. Could you ever accept the possibility that there is no? Oh god. I guess I could I don't have any reason to I've got a lot of personal anecdotal evidence in thirty years of walking with him that he's shown up time and time again that just just real solid in it. I'm just real comfortable mound skin in that regard. But if somebody doesn't believe that I'm not mad at him. Right. That's just me and my walk. I I'm real clear about that. But, but you know, the, but I've got a lot of years of what I would call faith builders where you know, you're right at the edge of the cliff, and you don't fall off and something comes along and pushes you back. And it's it's there's just too much evidence. In the experiences for me to have anything other than a real solid, comfortable faith. You mentioned one of your differences is rabbi how important do you think it is especially in this climate that we're in debt to have people of different face that you can sit down and have a conversation with and learn from. Absolutely vital. Absolutely vital. You know, because it's very difficult to be prejudiced against someone that you know them. And so, you know, if you think that women are not capable and Har a weaker sex weaker vessel and don't hold the same caliber ability to play in say the business world, then you have been around many women because they're out there. I grew up with one my mom was is rockstar working mom, I've got them ladies on operating board here that are smarter than me or better business acumen than me. And so if you just if you're quieted with that the only way you could continue to be prejudiced would be that. You're dumb, you know, I mean, and so you know out of our six row. Z personalities to are African American and they're both absolute rock stars. They're incredible communicators thought leaders and work ethic and so forth. So to be racist is just dumb. But the only way you do that that you can be racist or hate something that's at a distance. But if you get up close, and you interact with people of different religions, and and different races and sexes and so forth in unless you just really dull you're going to start to catch on that. I see this. I get this and. My wife did a trip to Israel. We've done trips to Israel. But she did a trip to Israel and spent the whole time of the Palestinians, which is a whole different trip to Israel. And yeah, that's a totally different perspective. Why did she want to spend her time with the Palestinians? There's a bunch of Christian Palestinians. And they've got a story. They've got a narrative that's completely different different view on that whole global meltdown. There that's called Israel. And I love Israel, a love the Jewish people in big supporter of Israel the nation. And but she came home with stories. They're like, you know, it's a different thing. There's a whole 'nother side to this coin it, didn't it didn't change our politics. It didn't change our world view on something. But when you sit down you eat in somebody's house. It changes you listened you. Well, you you got to put up a new friend new friend, and and how can you not be somewhat for your friend? Even if you disagree with something they say when you look back at the absolute lowest moment of your life. What was it? It would have to be the bankruptcy. I may even have to be going through losing everything because everything was so low at that point my poor wife thought, she married, sir. Galahad turns out it was Guber. So I mean, she she's often laugh to said I would left, but we didn't have a car and things were that bad almost put up. I mean, we really were about to kill each other. But she's from hills of Tennessee frying pan throwing there's an Olympic event. So I mean, we were at each other. But it you know, again. We just held on in gripped through the storm, and that was faith all joking aside and all on one liners aside. But then five years later all those scars rose to the surface, and we spent some time with the marriage counselor. But it took that long to just get to where we could breathe and eat. And then by the time, we relaxed a little bit. We went. You're not really remember. How mad I wasn't you. And a man again now, so. It was it's been a journey. It's a process, but the that's that's probably our largest defining moment where we were were. I was the most scared the most faithless of the what were you scared of eating taking care of my babies and providing from simply putting food on the table was a struggle. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we didn't have any money when you're on my two hundred thousand the next year, I made six thousand taxable income so spent the whole year selling everything trying to pay off all the debt because there were crashing in on us. And I was trying to do the right thing. But you know, the lights are getting cut off the water is getting cut off the roof is leaking. And I mean, we didn't go without a meal, but it was close. I mean, we were having. We're scared. We know where he was going to come from when they're when they cut the lights off. It's that's a big deal. You know, when I take the when they don't just cut the water off, but they take the meter out. So you can't reconnect at yourself if they take the meter. Absolutely. And the lights were off for how long. They never at the same time because I managed to keep one of them back or forth, but either had or water. Yeah. I mean, it wasn't it wasn't weeks or something like that. But there were taste that that that we were there. That's right where we were Gary, and you still felt God in in the midst of that intermittently. I went from sheer terror sheer exhilaration every day, you know, highs and lows where do you think you like you said, you became a believer in your twenties? If you had answer this question, where do you think you'd be without your faith? How would you answer that? Sad. Why? Because I think I would have caught what I was chasing. And what were you chasing, wealth and fame? And I think I would have caught that. And it would have been, you know, set dog chasing the car catches it. What's he gonna do with it drop? What do I do? What do I do with it? And I got there, and I would have arrived. I wanna went this just didn't do it. If you eat enough, lobster tastes like soap. I mean, you there's not enough. There's not that lobster could ever taste like so enough of it. Not if you drench it in butter now, the butter the butter, I'm with you. But there there's not enough cars or enough houses. And we all know this, you know, as an intellectual exercise, no one will ever say money will make you happy, but a whole bunch of people act like it's going to everybody does. And and I was I was the chief among them. And the the irony is is that I have a whole bunch of money now, it's irrelevant. All I am as a manager. Now, I just manage money for God. And so I don't I don't really feel any different other than I'm not scared about the water being cut off. But I mean, it's I don't have any, you know, I don't have any like somehow got a different superpower that I didn't have or something. It's just I've got some more stuff to do. You know? Multimillion dollar empire. You just said I manage money for God. So you don't even view it as your money, which not. About if you believe what I believe evangelical. I'm a steward. I'm a manager. And so and that's not the tie the ten percent. That's the whole thing and in the power or the notoriety or the fame or whatever you wanna call this. That's landed on us as well. With fifteen million listeners a week. You know that there's a lot of power in that too. But that power is not mine. It'd be really careful how use that. Because not mine and be careful I use that money because it's not mine where it comes from. And so I'm supposed to use it this way, you may do that. Okay. You to do that. The irony is a whole bunch of people think of that I'm supposed to give it all away. Which if I am that he needs to tell me, but I'm not gonna listen to you. You don't get to tell me that. Because you're not got how do you determine how much you tie, and how much she gift to the church is that that's a personal decision. I'll give a tenth of my income, my gross before taxes. Yeah. And one year one much, but. I've done it every year and. Dollars a year. And I've heard people say if you tie, the, you know, the God will prosper you not always I'm proof of that. But over time he has, but I don't do it for that reason obviously that's a baseline for generosity. And then everything above that is just offerings. And that's just way of a family foundation that we dump a percentage of our income beyond the tie into every year that we're able to give a good deal of money to through. My oldest daughter manages that. She's the ministry minded of my three kids and a very very good at it. And so we find ministries that we feel like God is leading us to help with that. And we we are giving through that mechanism. But that way, we can be wise managers in wise, donors, not just impulsive and emotional, although we sometimes do something impulsive emotional things. But we think that's God when we do. That's all part of being human. And then realizing your mistake. Give me a word to describe your faith. No, a word or two view. I don't it's it's. It had to be a paragraph. But I mean, I it is the center I've who I am. And so it's it's how make all my decisions. It's how I what I measure behaviors against mine and others. And so it's all encompassing in that regard. But it's not necessarily. But hopefully, it's not almost sleeve to where it's off putting it is for some folks. But I get that. I get the Twitter mentioned check Twitter ever. Yeah. Under stay off of it. But I mean, it's it's it's pretty much devolve down in the trolls now, but the, but the, but I mean, there's I get that. If the pre Christ Dave would have listened to this radio show, he might have been off. But by I get it done. What do you want people to say about you? I don't think it matters. He was the best grandpa ever. God to say about you. Same thing. Whatever I do. I do what open. That's for. Sure. I don't do anything halfway. And even when I'm wrong. I am colossally wrong. And so that's probably a little end up on my team stone. Even if it's against my preference. But lastly wrong. Yeah. No, just wide. Open to speeds, asleep and wide open. Not a bad way. All right. It's been a pleasure. And I just need some African nation that you're going to go through my finances and make sure we're doing everything right out a personal consultation here on the road. Thank you. Borrow your studios, by the way, I want to have you on the podcast. And can I borrow your studio? Oh, good. I'm glad thanks for coming by. Thank you. That's another episode of journeys of faith in the books. Thank you so much for listening. And if you haven't subscribed, we encourage you to do so and give us a rating, if there's someone that you want on the podcast, all you have to do is tweet me at Paula Farris, next week's guest is PBS anchor. I'm not Nevada. And I'd be remiss if I didn't send a big thanks to the team here at ABC radio Suzy, Lou Joyce, Alcantara brianna Montalvo Lewis millman, Mike Dubovsky, Josh Cohen and Andrew cow. We'll see next week on journeys of faith. Are you hiring with indeed you can post a job in minutes set up screener questions than zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started today at indeed dot com slash ABC. That's indeed dot com slash ABC.

Dave Ramsey Nashville Israel Shannon Baptist Tennessee Chevrolet Ramsey solutions Ramseys Capital One football Tom shillue Jellico Twitter Mark Sharon
JonBenet Ramsey ////// Santa Claus

True Crime Garage

1:21:18 hr | 1 year ago

JonBenet Ramsey ////// Santa Claus

"Jon Jon Benet Ramsey. She was strangled with little. Miss Colorado. A victim Jon benet Ramsey unknown L. Intruder Robin Ramsay Phil Johnston Tames. Anybody been half for that day not more than two through sponsor. It's been over twenty twenty years since Jon. Benet Ramsey was murdered inside her home. Still to this day. We are looking for the killer. We are looking for. Who who did this now? The experts who have looked at this case over the years there are some that point toward the intruder theory as it has become known. Proponents of of the intruder theory include an e. Who did their documentary on? The JONBENET case as well as famous retired F. B. I.. Agent John on Douglas and retired law enforcement officer. Lou Smit John. Douglas believes that there was an intruder and that the motive for or the killing was something against John Ramsey. Somebody had an axe to grind against John Ramsey. Maybe this was revenge handed out for John and Patsy. We don't know but that's part of his theory. Loose man on the other hand believes in the intruder theory as well with a slight variation creation. He believes that we are looking for somebody that was sexually motivated that this was a pedophile that broke into the home at the sole purpose of sexually assaulting this young girl attempting to kidnap her but unsuccessfully. Now we've put together a list of potential suspects in this case so let's get into some of the suspects suspects in some of the interesting Weirdos in this case and I'd like to start off with a man named J. T. Colfax Aka James Michael Thomson Simpson. He was thirty four years old back in nineteen ninety seven when he was arrested in June. This for deciding to set fire to the ramseys unoccupied home home on Fifteenth Street. He did this as he says not because he had anything against the ramseys but because he wanted to get back at the authorities ladies he attempted to set fire to the home by lighting newspapers and pages from Anne Rice's famous book interview with a vampire. He likes these things is on fire and then he stuffing them through the mail slot at the Ramseys home. His plan failed due to the general construction of the home. The floor from my understanding adding is marble and so the burning pages wants stuff through the slot land on the marble floor and lay there until burning out this did however manage to leave a good amount of soot on the walls and the ceiling okay so if jt Colfax Aka James Michael Thompson didn't do This because he had it out for the RAMSEYS. Well what was his beef with. The authorities Colfax was employed as a cadaver transporter by Denver Denver Company. This occupation in Colfax is actions will lead to two other arrest one for when he had a call to go to the Boulder county morgue for a pickup while he was waiting around he noticed the logbook and the entry with job as of name on it he tore the sheet out of the Logbook Book and took some additional pages as well. This would lead to a theft charge for stealing pages from a coroner's log. Book showing the arrival of Jon. Benet Body Audie at the county morgue. His other arrest came when he attempted to walk out of a photo processing store without paying for the roles of photos he picked up the photos. Turn out to be pictures of corpses with party favors and signs attached to the bodies with phrases. Such as getting fired isn't isn't the end of the world or yeehaw and happy birthday. He called the FOTOS works of art. He served time for all of these charges. This is somebody. It has very strange with some very strange actions and behaviors that seem to be circling around this case. I don't believe that he has ever been officially named named a suspect captain next we have Gary Olivia. He's thirty two year old sex offender living in Boulder Colorado. When Jonbenet was killed the convicted pedophile had been living in the area on and off and two thousand? Gary was arrested for a drug charge when searching the man. Police least find a magazine Cutout of Jon benet Ramsey in his backpack according to Rolling Stone magazine. The ramseys private investigator Ollie Gray Array once referred to Olivia's ties to Jon. Benet as a quote bombshell arrest in the case and lambasted the boulder older PD for failing to consider him a more credible suspect soon after. Ah Libya's highschool friend Michael Vale Step Forward Award with an allegation supporting grays suspicion. Vail claim that not long after the murder a distraught. Olivia called him on the phone and confessed to his longtime POW. That he quote hurt a little girl I thought he actually caught him on the twenty six vale. Make some some strong claims about Olivia and I'm not going to go into all of them but they are. Well they're disturbing to say the least Vail also associated that in his opinion the knots for the Gherat. This strangled Jon Benet a were similar to those used in an incident where Olivia attempted to choke. Okay his mother to death with a telephone cord and when Gary Olivia was arrested they also found in his possession. A stun gun. Several experts on this case have said after viewing photos of Jon Benet as body that the attacker may have used a stun gun to subdue in control the Child Olivia has arrested for possessing child pornography as well Olivia by his own. Admission lived about eight blocks away away from the ramseys and was seen and photographed at the one year memorial vigil held for job a in front of the Ramseys Boulder home days. Not Hard to pick out. 'cause he looks like the creep he looks like a guy that when you close your eyes and go okay. What what kind of guy do I picture? That's it's been convicted of these types of charges. You Go and you open up your eyes and you see a picture you go. Yeah that that makes sense yeah. He's he's a creepy but also scary very looking man in my opinion. Yeah he's not a guy that some some of these pedophiles you go. Hey Leman a room with that guy. I'll take care of him. This guy you might not want to be locked in a room with him well and I didn't go into all of veils allegations against what type of person and what this dude is capable of right because it's very disturbing in some shocking things to hear but but what I can say is this is an individual that if vail is correct did if his allegations are in fact true then this man is very violent and very violent towards those weaker than him towards people that are in animals that are just kind of defenceless. Wasn't there rumors that he had a shrine to Jon Benet. I saw those rumors as well. The only thing that I could back up was the statement that there was a picture. Sure on his person at the time of his arrest of Jon Benet that had been cut out of a magazine. I couldn't verify this elsewhere but according to Rolling Stone magazine they say he's been cleared by DNA testing for the Jon benet murder. Yes this FAMOUS DNA right bright next up. Captain we have a man named Michael Hell Goth. They call him boot man or simply boots. He's another potential suspect it. This according to Ali Gray remember the ramseys private investigator Michael Hill Goth. Who worked in a nearby auto salvage yard? He was apparently. In some kind of property dispute with the Ramseys this could be one of many motivating factors for this when the then twenty six year. Old Man went to seek revenge against John Ramsey in nineteen ninety seven the Boulder District Attorney delivered a speech at a press conference complete with the promise of justice for Jon Benet and that this case will be solved. He pointed out that they have suspects. Max And as law enforcement continues to work their investigation. That list of suspects will shrink until there's just one left you. Are you speaking to the killer. This was a powerful announcement scripted with carefully chosen words letting the killer no that the boulder. Da was zeroing in on a new suspect Hell Goth according to his co worker at the time of the murder. This is John Kennedy He. He says Hell Goth exhibited a bevy of disturbing behaviors sparing everyone the details. He was known for what I call severe cruelty realty to animals. He once said to Kennedy. I wonder what it would be like to crack a skull now. Anybody that's listened to our job. A autopsy episode knows knows exactly what we are hinting at here in November of Nineteen ninety-six. He told his Co. worker that he and an associate. We're going join to make fifty to sixty thousand dollars. Each remember. The ransom note was for one hundred eighteen thousand dollars total then after Christmas Hell Goth seemed depressed and his co worker says a thanks. He was depressed because he did not make this large amount of money that he was talking about November because on the side he would buy old vehicles and restore them so they had these plans to buy certain vehicles vehicles and now he didn't have the money the the money didn't come in. He was claiming he was going to get so if he stood to make fifty or sixty thousand dollars from some kind of unknown business adventure then right but he said the buy up all these cars and turn it into even more money is what you're saying right oddly enough and this could just be a coincidence it could be something incredibly important but the day after the. Da Speech the says we are zeroing in on a suspect. Act Hell Goth. He turns up dead after his death. Police searched his things and photos of his. Or let's go back doc. Because most people believe it was a suicide but because of certain pieces of evidence it could lead somebody to believe that it was possibly murderer and set up to look like suicide correct when they're searching his items. They're searching photos of his police saul two things of particular interest. I won a stun gun and to a pair of black high tech brand boots. This is believed that they would have matched or possibly match one of of two sets of unidentified footprints found in the Ramsey's basement even more disturbing within hell Gos- video collection was a news station story about an unsolved murder seemingly hidden in the middle of a movie law enforcement stated that the video plays along and then boom in the middle of this movie movie it breaks to like news coverage and all of a sudden has news coverage on their from Channel Four regarding the abduction and murder of a five year old girl who was found stuffed into a sleeping bag and Deer Creek Canyon. This case is from nineteen ninety-three now as you were getting to hear captain. This is the time for the speculation in something that many people have offered their opinions. On over the years the belief is officials found found an unidentified print and an unidentified shoeprint at the crime scene and Hell Goth owned boots that would match that print hell Goth caught wind that he was a suspect and decided to take his own life committing suicide just a day after the nineteen ninety seven press conference the famous press conference where district attorney. Alex Hunter says I want to say something to the person or persons that committed this crime the person or persons that took this baby from us I mention the list of suspects narrows and soon there will only be one left on the list and it will be you. Do you have stripped us of any mercy. We may have had in the beginning of this case. We will see that. Justice is served in this case that you pay a for what you did. Many people believe that the district attorney was hinting at the idea of seeking the death penalty for whoever is responsible for this murder and this could scare the offender even more so the thought and speculation here captain his death his suicide being a further sign of guilt that he was close or felt that he was close to being apprehended. So what health was a suspect of. What if he did as as many believe some people suggested he could have had an accomplice? Well if so many point toward John Stephen Gig. Ix being the accomplice John John a man with a criminal record that court documents summarized as violence and a history of sexual assault. What makes this theory? Even more complicated is the suggestion hell got did not commit suicide but was killed by someone. Maybe gigs this to prevent Hell Goth from confessing during the interrogation or from turning himself in and then singing like a bird and turning in his accomplice as well. Why think of the crime crime-scene they found the gun in his sub dominant hand not as dominant hand? Yeah so he shot himself any shot himself in the chest. I or somebody shot him in the chest and place the gun in his hand so so a weird place to shoot yourself. If you're trying to kill yourself correct now Gig in his defense and by all accounts that I could find captain of his own free will he was the one that reached out and contacted boulder authorities and he says he provided them with documentation that proves he was not in Boulder Colorado on December twenty fifth nineteen ninety eighty six right bilas thing about this. First thing he's running around saying that he's going to get some money come into some money possibly fifty to sixty thousand that would put us at the One eighteen mark. That's in the ransom note So he's not getting this money from his partner. It doesn't seem like maybe there are being hired by somebody else so maybe possibly the person that was going to hire them since it was about botch job and was afraid that maybe they would go to authorities. He's that they got rid of him. And then the partner that was involved contacts the police because he's afraid that the same thing that happened to how garth arth is going to happen to him. Yeah the the the problem with Hell Goth is. There's so much speculation around him regarding I mean everything about the guy one is even connected to. Did he ever think he was a suspect by three. Did he commit suicide for. I mean people commit suicide for a million Elian different reasons or was he murdered by somebody to cover. It could have covered anything up while one of the reasons why he is a a pretty big suspect and a lot of people's eyes when they're looking at this case is because seeing is believing it's good to be seen and it's good to see you and when you see the pictures from either the suicide scene or murder scene you see this done gun when you see the boots that possibly match the prince founded the Ramseys home so I think just by seeing you go all there it is. It's right in front of us. Possibly I think the problem here with Hell Goth is again the speculation involved and in the leaps. You have to make to make him a really good suspect one. We have no confirmation. That stun gun was used in the attack against Johnny at all. It's just correct that in itself. Thank you Latian. So but right but what I'm stating is once you see at the suicide scene or or this murder scene off. There's a stun gun in the picture. There's there's the high tech boots in the picture. I think that's why people have been able to make other leaps because they can see something and see in his believing leaving. Well what you're seeing. There is evidence that you cannot exclude him as a suspect. You're seeing things that point to possible possible reasons that would make him a suspect. If in fact those puzzle pieces fit somewhere. We can't confirm that they fit regarding the boots themselves in the unidentified blueprint or shoeprint. It was found in the Ramsey's basement. That's very troubling that we have unidentified shoeprints in the Ramsey's basement. We have people that that fight and argue about wasn't intruder was an inside job you could take those unidentified prints and make an argument for either side of that argument you. There were so many people in the basement the people coming in and out be it before the murder or after because we have a contaminated crime scene that it could be the prince mean nothing what the prince could also point toward a possible intruder ruder. The the the trouble again with Hell Goth is just one more factoid in there is that we don't have a confirmed size for this boot print. There's no there's nobody out there that has said they were absolutely. This is in fact it has been ruled that they they could not determine the size the exact size of the blueprint so would in fact those boots even match up with that print and again Dan with this famous DNA. I believe they've asked the family. How growth to cooperate and and let them try to get some DNA to test? And I believe they have said now. I'm glad you threw that in there because this is one thing that we've run into with this case it's been reported so many times over the more than twenty years now and reported so many different ways by so many different sources. It's tough to keep things straight sometimes and one thing that I found extremely troubling in regards to Michael Hell Goth is several sources in print. Say He's been cleared by DNA. And I throw that back at the wall to see if it sticks and I don't know that it sticks because because I wonder if if truly the jury is out if still out on this one because not every source states that he has been cleared Leveque in fact as you pointed out I have some sources that say they they're seeking DNA. They're seeking more evidence on this particular suspect. Yes very interesting the tone you that loose. Smith's family has taken the list of suspects that he basically was narrowing down his search search and they've been asking those individuals to submit. DNA Lot of them have and based off that DNA. They've been able to clear that individual were based off more investigative work. They've been able to clear the individual so it's interesting that his family decided to keep going with his work work and and believe in in this work even though they don't come from Law Enforcement Background and that documentary. I was watching about the family and going after new suspects. That's what it stated that they have already asked the DNA and have been denied by the family so but again a lot of are these documentaries put in whatever evidence they want to go with their narrative. Introducing the Jeffrey Epstein. I knew a new podcast from CNN. hosted by Vicki Ward. You've seen the headlines. Now go behind the story with the seven episode series. A one of a kind account of Jeffrey Epstein the the man the multi millionaire the Monster Vicky Ward has been reporting on Jeffrey Epstein for almost two decades. And it reveals what it's like to follow Epstein Epstein. A master manipulator who liked to play chess with people as his ponds had a reputation that relied on the careful cultivation and maintenance of the high profile network intricate spiderweb with Epstein squarely at the center at `Nigma until the very end joined Vicky Ward as. She explores who Jeffrey Epstein really was where he got his money and the circumstances surrounding his death. Subscribe to the Jeffrey Epstein. I knew bill wherever you get your podcast simply safe as my choice for home security. It's comprehensive professional home security at a fair price and right. Now's now's the best time of year to keep the simplisafe security system. My lizards get a free security camera. Plus a huge discount on your security system simplisafe protects every room door and window with twenty four seven professional monitoring. Smart Lock in video doorbell. Defend your front door from porch. Pirates inside an arsenal of sensors and cameras. Cover every inch of your home. If there's a break in they can get real time video confirmation to police as it happens happens so please respond up to three point five times faster plus simply safe makes it easy on you. There's contracts hidden fees or fine print. An prices start at just fifteen dollars a month visit simplisafe dot com slash garage to get a free camera. Plus simply safe's holiday savings this offers for a limited time only and it will be ending soon visit simplisafe dot com slash garage. Today that's simplisafe dot com slash garage native creates gates safe simple effective products. That people use every day. Their products are filled with trusted ingredients and their natural deodorant is no different native. Deodorant is formulated formulated without aluminum. Parabens Tauk and with ingredients found in nature such as coconut oil shea butter and Tapioca Starch. Their formula contains simple simple ingredients. You understand and comes in a wide variety of enticing sense for men and women plus they released new limited edition seasonal sense throughout the year their classic deodorant sense include Coconut Vanilla lavender and rose cucumber mint and Eucalyptus and meant. They even have a new candy cane sent just for the holidays. Today's making the switch to a natural deodorant does not mean having to sacrifice on odor and wetness protection. Native is proof. There's a reason why it has over nine thousand and five star reviews. There's also no risk to try it. Native offers free shipping and free returns and exchanges in the USA. I love native. The captain loves native. I love their website site. You can purchase for men women and Teens and right now I notice they have gift sets on there as well and their sense are fantastic. I'm loving the candy. Indicate sent for the holiday season for twenty percent off your first purchase visit native Deodorant Dot Com and use Promo code garage during checkout. That's native Deodorant Dot Com Promo Code Garage for twenty percent off your first purchase. All right cheers mates cheers. Lee You captain this week. We are drinking Christmas Ale by the wonderful people at Great Lakes brewing company garage grade five at a five bottlecaps sound. Sound the trumpets wait. We don't have any trumpets but thank you again to everybody who has donated to the beer fund at any time this year and if you donated her name we will get to you in the New Year L.. Captain we are on the trail of the possible intruder into the Ramsey home. That may have killed Jon Benet Ramsey. And if we're talking intruders well. We would be remiss to not talk about possible Santa Claus coming down the chimney into the Ramsey home and killing this young innocent girl. We are referencing. Of course bill mcreynolds. WHO's now deceased? He was a friend of the RAMSEYS. who dressed up like Santa Claus to entertain the neighborhood? Children this at several of patsies famous Christmas gatherings thanks a went as far to introduce himself as Santa Bill and liked when people caught him. Santa Bill if you think he makes a good that suspect and if you like these Santa Claus theory the theory may go something like this. This is from rolling stone. Mick Reynolds was rumored to have paid aide a little too much attention to Jon Benet going so far as to arrange a secret visit from Santa Claus this after after Christmas is complete speculation. We know that Jon benet referenced. A secret visit from Santa Claus after Christmas. We don't don't know that if that means it was bill. Mack Reynolds Santa Bill that set this up. Supposedly he wanted Jon a banana to be his quote special friend going so far as to bring a vial of glitter gifted to him by the six year old with him into heart surgery even stranger. He asked his wife to mix the gold glitter in with his ashes. If he were to die. This particular story generated raided buzz in the Denver Post but failed to amount to anything more than what many have called the sensationalized character. Assassination of a friendly the old man. That's what they say. But I say let's look at this a little more closely because I think some people will see more than just a ace insane character. Assassination Bill mcreynolds is a retired Colorado University journalism professor. He retired in nineteen ninety. Ninety two he was about sixty six years. Old Jonbenet was killed. He grew his beard long so a natural long white beard. This was when he signed up to play a role in a local play then later he was hired by Maryland House to play Santa at the mall. He he played Santa for the Ramseys in nineteen ninety four ninety five and ninety six at their parties. He had bypass surgery on August. Twenty Third Nineteen Ninety Ninety six. He and his wife. Janet were invited by the Ramseys to attend job in as memorial service. Some publications state the Jon Benet. They gave mcreynolds a tour of the Ramsey home and nine hundred ninety five some publications say nineteen ninety six either way. What seems to be clear here? Apparently this did happen. The only thing in question is which year yeah and I would argue that. It's possible that happened both years. Hey Santa let me show you the house again. One report I found. Captain says that Jon Benet called Bill Old Sam now another story that would have the a year in question. Is Jon. Benet gave him a vial of glitter that she said was stardust. He would later say in all of the years he played Santa and for all the kids that he saw throughout that time she was the only one to give him a gift against a publication. Say she gave gave him the Stardust in ninety five say ninety six one publication which I think could in fact have it correct says this happened on two occasions wants wants in ninety five and again in ninety six it would have happened. Had to have happened in ninety five for the story about his heart surgery to correct his his alibi for the night in question was he was sleeping. He went to bed at ten PM. Now captain I think he and his wife were at their mountain home like a weekend vacation nation home. This would have been about thirty miles away. This alibi was investigated by many. The alibi includes more than just his wife. At least five other people would have been present that night. Here's where things get strange the MIC Reynolds. Their nine year old daughter was kidnapped on the day after Christmas. December Twenty Sixth Nineteen Seventy four twenty two years before for quick with the math. Then we also have Janet mcreynolds his wife she wrote a play called. Hey rube the play is a fictional account of the basement murder of sixteen year old. Sylvia likens in Indianapolis Indiana but hold on a second so. The daughter is kidnap with her friend. And I believe the friend was actually molested and the daughter witnessed that but the daughter herself was not molested justed and both were let go. Yes and this was never solved and then two years later his wife will write this play. That's based off of a a different Crime correct and people point toward the basement. Murder of a young girl is being a connection. Here right I was the motivation for writing the the play. Are these two factors. Are they coincidence or just too much. To be a coincidence. I would actually cross the second one out this Janet writing the play about the murder teen. who was killed in a basement and I state that because that case? Ace It's a real life. Case is extremely famous case. At least two books are written about the case and then later in two thousand seven. The film in American crime was released. This is a very good movie disturbing haunting that is about the life and murder of Sylvia. Likens we should point out too that other than being a child Sylvia was sixteen and being killed in a basement. The murders could not be more different uh-huh Sylvia's case was quickly solved. She was not killed in her basement. She was staying or living with a caregiver who turned out to be a sadistic nick old and evil woman and she and her children along with some of their friends killed Sylvia. Shortly after the memorial service for job. Hey Bill and Janet went to Spain so this made them very difficult to interview for police. This was a long trip the MIC Reynolds. Say they were not to hide from anyone. They didn't run away to Spain. In fact the Spain trip was a coincidence they had. They proved that the trip was planned and booked. Well in advance chance this being in June of Nineteen Ninety six John Ramsey suggested that maybe bill mcreynolds dressed as Santa Fede. Jon benet Pineapple Apple the night that she was killed and that he sat next to her while she a he drank a cup of tea. We pointed this because we know from from some of the crime scene photographs that they photographed a bowl of what appears to be pineapple on the table and nearby. You have what appears to be a cup not a little the little tea bag down in the Cup Jan.. We don't have fingerprints on the bowl. We'll have Jon Benet Ramsey's fingerprints on the the bowl but we do have a pineapple like substance that was found in her stomach so we know at some point of that evening. She ate pineapple and then the parents claim they never fed her pineapple before she went to bed and apparently bill was known to drink hot tea while I breath. I actually believe it's it'd be a little bit easier than that because if we have a six year old girl that a believe is on the twenty third or twenty fourth. I'm not really sure. But when she gets into an argument with her friends mom and said Santa Claus is going to visit me. Of course he's going to visit you. He visits every kid on Christmas. No once yeah no no. She says as after Christmas a special visit to me. This is the thing in the case that has always been so odd and so is it possible that she fell asleep on the ride home from all the parties. She's a little six year old girl. She's tired she falls is asleep and then she wakes up and she goes all tonight. Santa Claus is going to come visit me and so she went downstairs on her own fed herself pineapple waiting for this visit from Santa Claus. I I agree with you. One hundred percent. I mean this is one of the more odd details within in this story. It's one of the very few items within the story. That's almost foreshadowing that something very bad is about to happen. It just just doesn't. It's something that in hindsight makes sense that it that it lines up and it's it's eerie in truly as I put this in the same category category as the the Phantom nine one one call that came from their Christmas party right now. Bill was not without his own secrets. It's he regularly visited adult bookstores this unbeknownst to his wife John Ramsey suggested that SB t. c. the and the ransom note ransom letter as I would call it could actually be S. B. J. C.. which he said could stand for Santa Bill? Janet Santa Claus but hold on a second to Janet his wife is a moot movie critic that that's one of the things and she writes for the paper so it doesn't have to be Santa Bill. JANET CLOSET COULD STILL BE S. BTC and some people think that means Santa Bill. The critic interesting I I like trying to figure out what s BTC or maybe it is S. B. J. C.. Which I agree with you when when you look at it on the paper? It's possible that it could be the intention was to write a J.. Not a T.. I think it's fascinating to try to figure out what that could stand Dan for however I think none of them that I have heard none none that anyone has pointed out have have I gone who. That's that's interesting. Every one of them seemed to be a leap like just a weird connecting words that I don't think should be connected. Dab I mean and look at the BTK K. Strangler btk. Hey what the heck does that mean. We'd have no clue what that meant until Phil we have the actual killer coming out and stating this is what that means right. When the mcreynolds return to boulder from Spain they cooperated rated with the police in the way of submitting fingerprints blood hair and handwriting samples later Boulder Da? Mary Lacey says that she had mcreynolds as her prime suspect for a time. His handwriting is listed as questionable but his DNA he is not a match according to a candy Rose Dot com which has a large database on this case but there's also some speculation that his DNA was never collected so it again. It's one of those details in this case that you can't find the correct answer. One article does state that the handwriting being sample quote eliminated Bill. mcreynolds again as you just pointed out. There are many details within this story. That are argued different ways. Now we do know that the Ramseys by their own. Admission hired a private investigator. I'm sorry private investigate towers to watch bills Dell's house for some time so the ramseys obviously not only just John's statements but also the actions of the RAMSEYS paying people to watch bill and his home for a period of time next captain we have Santa's son Jesse mcreynolds. He was interesting to the police because of his police record he served two and a half years in an Arizona prison for aggravated robbery and kidnapping and he. He has in unverifiable alibi for the night in question Jesse lives in Neater Land Colorado. This is about a thirty minute. Drive to boulder. Jesse says he was home alone. That night drinking scotch and then. He took some of his prescription medication education and he went to bed that night. Scotch Scotch Scotch Scotch. I Love Scotch home alone that night. He he has provided police with with fingerprints blood and handwriting samples. Steve Thomas a detective that. We've referenced many times who worked the case right says that the handwriting in writing sample eliminated Jesse mcreynolds. That's his opinion or provided to him by the experts hired by the DA. Less stay on Santa Bill for a little bit because this kidnapping twenty two years on the same day It just seems teams very fishy and it also seems very fishy to me that his daughter and her friend were taken. We now have have a sexual assault on a minor but not to his daughter and I would think that in this case that's not solved. The parents would be suspects. Just like they would be in the Ramsey case so I like that as a key piece of evidence. The other thing too is. I can't get over the fact that a six year old is saying that Santa Claus is going to visit her after Christmas. That same six-year-old has found in her basement. Dead and that she has a relationship probably too close of a relationship with a Amanda is a family friend. Play Santa Claus then when you got this odd ransom note seems like we have a lot of movie references. Well who's going to watch a lot of movies a movie critic WHO's GonNa Probably Watch those movies with his critic wife. The husband husband Santa Bill. The other thing that I find odd is at Santa Bill would carry around these stuffed animals with him there were like his helpers. Most of the time they were dressed in Chrissy outfits and there was a bear that was found on. Jon Benet Ramsey's bed you can see it in the crime scene photos now. How supposedly this bear has gone missing sense and the I looked for days because I thought this was as important and as Jon Benet saying that she's going to be visited by Santa Claus after Christmas? Now one source that I found said that this bear was actually bought for member. How she won Miss Christmas? Yeah they said that a lot of the people participating aiding got these Santa Claus bears but these bears look very similar to the bears. That saint Santa Bill Bill would carry around and even ask Kids Hon about him. Hey you see this bear. Does this look kind of like what you're dead cares around. He's like that looks pretty much identical to something he would carry around so I find that odd. What another thing about Santa Bill is when you're asleep and yes you're thirty miles away so you have to get in your car? That's a long drive if everybody else is asleep as long as you get get back before they wake up. You're good to go so I don't really count that as a solid alibi. I questioned the alibi as well I mean there's my wife but yeah and I wanted to point out that it was investigated by many and that includes you know boulder detectives. It includes Journalist includes the Private investigators I mean. It's a lot of different people coming from a lot of different angles that it did investigate that alibi. The problem is I don't know what investigated the alibi means. That's the only statement given I don't have to do. We don't have confirmation that says all these eighteen different people or these different agencies all can confirm without question that these five to seven people can account for bills whereabouts for the night of Christmas. Now says it was investigated but I I have to believe that they by that statement that they believe it to be true but I wanted a little more than than just that and and then regarding his the kidnapping of his daughter and her Fran twenty two years to the day right again again. It's another situation one because it's nineteen seventy four. There's very little information about that particular crime other than it's unsolved so I don't know if they had had reason to believe that they knew who did it or if they had a really good suspect in that case and likely. There's a chance that if the other girl was the one that was molested she of May may have been in fact the target it but the thing that you can't get over and if anybody tells me that they can get get over it let's sit down and have a beer because twenty two years to the day. There's three hundred sixty five five days in a year and it happens on the same date. That's just frigging weird to me. Is that it. Sounds like something that you would see in a movie or or or a fixer fictionalized version of of some kind of crime. Right in but it's called the Santa Bill a pedophile. I don't think we have any no. You're right we have no evidence of that that would be way out of bounds right but it's also but he's creepy easy to me man. He's creepy but on top right on top of that we know with pedophile. They put themselves in situations to be around children which he is doing and the fact that he also would be going to adult stores video stores to me. I don't have a problem with that. That my issue is the fact that your wife didn't know about it that becomes creepy to me the thing. That's that's odd about up. That to me is that he like. He doesn't try to hide this from the police. I think they found out on their own and they present it to him and he he he was embarrassed but they they're they say his reaction wasn't that of somebody that's guilty of anything more than that particular action. They believed not was just embarrassed one for for other people knowing this and his statement to them. Now Mind you. This is not been released to the public as far as the details go but his generalized statement to the detectives was he has some type of fantasy that that he's he's not his wife is unaware of The the it's something that he's he's been into for a long time kids that I I can say like kids. Well I don't know what would what the fantasy is. My guess is that the detectives do for you're being he's purchasing things at an adult bookstore. The usually dull. They don't sell things that involve children. I mean So we we know that but I also have to wonder is his fantasy something that that the detectives did not find to be relevant to the case. Yeah I mean when you'd have some homosexual tendencies or or fantasies and and and then they go while that doesn't line up up but again where's the evidence of whatever he stating and like you said yes. They don't sell child pornography Orphee at at adult bookstores. But if you're if you're making claims to throw them off the scent in any way. Houses backed backed up. And then we have this situation again. Where if Jon Benet Ramsey eight pineapple with the intruder that the intruder would be somebody that she would of known and also felt comfortable with and I also think what a great way to shut? Uh Up near Santa Claus outfit and therefore even if John or Patsy woke up. Yeah you're a little odd an can. Yeah take some discussing and they might never invite you back to their house but you could go well. I told her I was going to visit Her side to see I got a key and I was just going to let myself and leave her a gift and even though they claim that these bears were bought. Ah For this pageant. I can't confirm that other than just some simple line on some internet Thread and to me. It's it's very odd that there's this bear that neither one of the parents know Abou- and now it's missing and we have a police department that I think was so focused on putting this on the parents that they didn't to a good enough job working on these other suspects. I also think with the handwriting samples we don't have any fingerprints or DNA that I know of on the Letters so we can assume that this individual is writing these letters with some kind of glove on well. How much does that glove love alter their handwriting? And so unless you're giving people a handwriting samples where you're making them wear a certain type of glove. I don't think think you're going to get the correct answers there. And then they say and this is the most asinine thing I heard from law enforcement probably in the whole case as well we also ruled out Santa Bill because he had heart condition so he physically couldn't do this. Okay well and I was telling you about this local detective. I sat down and talked with him about the Ramsey case. And I I was saying. Yeah the Santa Bill. There's a lot of things that line up to make him. Look like the best suspect and even the DA at some point said as the best suspect or believe that she thought he who was the best suspect for a while and this detective went on to tell me that they had the case where everything was pointing to this gentleman but he was in very bad health condition and he was actually walking with two canes. So the more and more they're going we think it's this guy. Why but he physically couldn't do it so they brought him in? Had Him take a lie detector he fails and then he emits. The whole crime gives a full confession. I'd then they have to figure you know well. How were you able to do this? It was a sexually sexually motivated crime and the adrenaline. We gave this guy the strength to do the one was was more than or this desire was more than the the pain you know the or the physical limitations and see. I would also argue too that you go you write this note this this ransom. No I also think that the ransom note proves that somebody had some idea about writing. They put too many commas in there for some simple bowl criminal. So you have this girl down in the basement and like I said to you. I don't know see with the garage. That is going a to determine how hard you can strangle the person not your physical limitations. The gras helps you shock now. The grat based on most autopsies or the way people look at the autopsy. The choking wasn't to kill her. The choking was for sexual gratification. It was a sexual act. So that's where I wonder did. Did Santa in a bill. Put Jon Benet Ramsey into that suitcase and then try to get that suitcase out the window or or try to move her at some point and drops her creating the fracture on the skull and then at some point goes aw. I can't physically carry her out of here so now I just have to leave so I think the physical limitations can come into play. Because you don't have to carry her down to the basement because you're saying a bill and she feels comfortable dribble and she showed you the basement before you can just say. Hey can you show me the basement again. And now you're at the crime scene regarding I I gotta go go through your stuff here real quick before we move on if I find you in my house in the middle of the night. There's no explanation. You're getting a free right to the county jail and you're GonNa get to stay the night there for free as well but I get what you know you're not. You're going to leave my house in the ambulance. If you're if you're at the kitchen table with my daughter at midnight one o'clock dress as Santa Claus. You're GONNA be going to the hospital the other thing that I I wanted to kind of echo here captain is. I don't know how well you can trust these handwriting samples to eliminate someone I'm with you. I think it's very strange that they use that word. Well we analyze allies so and so's handwriting and determined that they did not write the ladder and we know that they've made patsy Ramsey right the note over four times one of John Ramsey's worker partners Merriman they had him right over seven times so they just take one sample bowl from bill. or or what what you want to do in those situations as an investigator. Is You want to collect a handwriting sample sample that you believe to be something that this person wrote before your. They're asking them to write something for you Brian. So and we know Oh that did happen in the case of John and Patsy Ramsey. We know that did happen in some of the other Suspects or people that were looked at as as well. But where I'm going with this whole. How can we eliminate somebody with a handwriting? Sample t t to just kind of Echo your point one. There is very strong reason to believe that the author was wearing gloves at the time that they wrote this letter. There's also reason to I believe and this is based off of the expert's opinion. This is not dumb nick. crispy colonel the notorious and I see here in the garage. You coming up with a AH with a stupid opinion. But the experts have stated that they have reason to believe that it's possibly authored by a right handed individual that was choosing to write the letter left handed. They believe this so much that they conducted a study to determine how long it would take a right handed person to write. This letter left handed. The average time that they came out with was thirty five minutes. That's copying being the no from a note that you would have brought with you Or in this case for the purpose of these tests that they were conducting. They're looking at the ransom letter and copying it then with their left hand. I don't WanNa get too much into the note because as we've already shown you can get wrapped up in a two hour conversation about the note it so this is talk it again. I just want to point out that I think that is very difficult. And I think it's actually irresponsible to say that you're going to eliminate people based off of handwriting sample and to your point as well captain especially if you have somebody that you've only collected one sample from them. The other thing I want to point out is that I was reading. A lot of speculation came from multiple Internet sources. That after the murder Santa Bill would talk about that he also had a member. How Jon Benet was his special friend that he didn't have too many any special friends but he had special friend earlier? And I've I've looked everywhere for this. I have found found names but I can't find any proof of this at all other than he was saying that he had another special friend. That was actually bird. I think five years before and was a seven-year-old boy again I found two different names for that seven year old boy but but I cannot find any proof that this boy existed or was murdered or anything. I shied away from that on purpose purpose because some of the information I found suggested that the the child was was sick was terminally ill then in passed away away from some type of illness which is fine. But when you go round telling of Andrzej people that you had another special friend that was murdered. That's a little strange if there weren't murdered well if in fact he said that if the if the child died of of an illness he's not going to be telling people that and again I I do want to point out. We don't have any real strong evidence here saying bill truly does weird me out the more I look at him the more he weirds me out and I don't just mean I'm not talking about appearance I'm talking about actions and and things surrounding him in his name as it relates to this case I would would love to sit down for a couple beers or even a couple cup of coffee with the. Da that once said this was my hot as he. This was my i prime suspect I wanNA know why this particular. Da believed that they could not eliminate him after so many others. Say That you you could I do. I do very much shit. Be Look when when we know for fact that they're releasing information attention to the media stating that it had to be inside job because there's no footprints have seen all these idiots online. Say while while you know there was no footprints and it says simple as to DC all the photos of that day and when you find out that they're not only is there a roadway that goes up to two driveway that goes to the House that you know has all these sidewalks have no snow on eh one eight you just not walked through the grass. It it's it baffles me that they would put out this information knowing knowing that it's false well. There was no footprints in the snow so therefore it had to be inside job. But you're not telling the full story. It's not fully covered in snow so it just drives me nuts and then so all these other and look. I'm not saying that the Ramsey's are innocent. What I'm saying is that you have to investigate everybody equally? And it doesn't seem like that happened here too are you saying is full full of shit law enforcement police that I was talking about the district attorney. I want to know why this district attorney says and publicly states. What's that at one time? This guy was my prime suspect. I would love to know what they're basing that off of in comparison to what law enforcement was is facing off that we can eliminate this guy. I do even as weird as as as I feel about Santa Bill. I do question the likelihood of his involvement and I will I will echo some of their opinion stating that I. I don't believe that he was in the best physical condition in having heart surgery just five months before the murder right. I also one thing that I wonder about too when we talk about having physical evidence in this case I mind you yes. The crime scene is contaminated. I'm I will believe nothing other than that statement. Right there. One hundred percent I think everybody involved even the idiots that are involved say but it's contaminated. We're talking about an individual that has a long white beard than that's it's not we didn't have a hundred people walk in that home that night or that next morning had a long white beard Danny Bay with a appeared to me. It's not the hair so much of the beard meaning. Look if you're not carrying her her then chances are the hair wouldn't get on her but if they're if we believe that there was a sexual assault that we believe that that they would find something. I think it'd be more likely that they would find some kind of dry skin because the beard will really dry out your skin and so that would find some kind of dry skin that would link him not so much a hair and then with the hair even if you found hair you have the argument that two days beforehand or on the twenty third that this person is in the House the Senate vigils in the House and that would give you reason to believe that you'd find their DNA or fingerprints anywhere correct but for me if it was was an intruder that killed Jon Benet. The only way that works is that there was a sexual assault. This means there was a violent and physical struggle. That took place at someplace some point in that home very likely in that wine cellar. And that's where I would suspect the find more physical evidence of our offender in regards to Jesse mcreynolds. We mentioned his kidnapping conviction. That data. That's what Kinda put him in front of the police's is and it certainly sounds interesting but I think that we should point out that that charge that conviction of kidnapping. It sounds much more ominous than it truly was the facts of that case for my understanding standing captain. He held up a gas station. Rob The place of just a little more than one hundred dollars and he used a gun during the commission of that robbery. Sorry and he moved the clerk basically from one side of the building or store to the other side and and at the time in Arizona. They're law they're saying if you move a person from point A. to Point B. Using a weapon you've technically kidnapped that the individual so where where I go to. If this was an intruder one of the motives may have been actual well kidnapping right so it makes this guy sound interesting. However that is not what his his previous charge and conviction was was four? It's a very very very different type of crime so while we're on the subject I think that is a good segue to our next possible suspect or someone who was considered a suspect suspect at some point Gary Merriman Gary Merriman was accessed graphics director of human resources. He publicly stated the he felt that he was a suspect he previously worked fourteen years in criminal justice as a psychologist including years at the Florida Department amount of corrections. He's kind of a natural fit. I think for at least some questioning by police. Of course detectives are going to look into individuals working working for working with access graphics. He is also the man that answered the phone. The morning of what was believed at the time to be a kidnapping when John John Ramsey called his work and forming them as to what was going on or what he believed was going on right. I think it's fair for Merriman to say that. He considered himself a suspect not because he considered himself to be guilty of anything or look suspicious. He's he's sedating the the the actions of the detectives indicated to him that he must be considered a suspect but I think they had him give over seven handwriting samples. He was questioned multiple times. He gave as you stated at least seven handwriting samples. He also provided police with his fingerprints. He gave blood and he gave hair as well. I can't find any documentation to state that the any of this evidence it would be a match to evidence collected at the scene there have been many reports that state that regarding the handwriting analysis. That merryman could not be ruled out as a possible author of the ransom letter. Yeah I've actually seen that. He was on the higher spectrum. Tom As far as a match goes higher than even Patsy Ramsey was and I know we just said that I said that. I think it's irresponsible to say. We've eliminated aided somebody based off of handwriting analysis but we should point out that out of all the handwriting samples that they took most of these. These people were quote unquote ruled out or eliminated right and then we have very few that that stayed on the list of people. We cannot rule out now. Merriman Merriman just like several other people in this case who were questioned multiple times or the request for multiple handwriting samples asked by police. He's one of several. The stood up in his own defense to the police in said something to the effect of you know. I'm here assisting assisting you and cooperating in your investigation where are the ramseys. What are they doing at this time? You've talked to me Multiple Times you've asked me for this this and this and I've provided this this and this to you. What is going on with the case that that they are not being looked at some of these individuals I I believe that they really felt that? They were beating being treated unfairly. And the eyes of the detectives and the police now Gary Merriman is not not an individual that John Ramsey told the police that they should look into. But Geoff. Merrick is somebody and has also somebody that Gary Merriman Said said. The police should look into. Yeah in the basic story of Geoff Merrick is. He's an ex access graphics employees. He met John Ramsey in nineteen seventy-one want. He knew him for a very long time. He met him when they both worked at. At and T.. In Columbus Ohio now he was one of the individuals that helped nope Ramsey start access or whatever the micro south or whatever it was called at the time he quit in nineteen ninety six fix. This is win. According to Merrick when the the company was in trouble and the Ram and Ramsey needed a cut some salaries calories so he says access graphics owed him one hundred eighteen thousand dollars. Yeah well that's an interesting interesting amount. Apparently they settled and he did receive half of that money. He did file ethics violations with the corporate headquarters at Lockheed Martin which owned access graphics according to the Book Death of innocence on page sixty fifty six. This is John. Ramsey's words Geoff Merrick who had threatened to bring me and access graphics down when he left the company in Nineteen Z. Ninety six so as you were pointing out captain. This is an individual that John Ramsey name by name on day one when asked by police and detectives do you have any enemies while yet because he was making threats to. Yeah so he names Geoff Merrick as an enemy we have John. Sorry Gerry Merriman for for the last four weeks I've been wanting to call a guy. John Merriman his. Name's Gary Nick. It's Gary Anyway Gary Merriman says that Jeff America would be the an enemy as well and then we have Nedra. NEDRA is patsies mother. Okay when she he is asked for a list of suspects she included Geoff Merrick and his vicious wife. Which is Kathy Merrick? One little known fact inside the story that That I think gets lost in. I don't know how important it is. But it's interesting stink for the makeup of the company and the makeup of John Success and Patsy and her family and relationship to John. Success her the father was very much involved in all of John. Ramsey's businesses okay. He helped Ramsey as as Patsy Z.. Helped John set up his businesses. Initially when his company was in trouble financially. It was patsies his father that bailed him out with alone and to further that at one point. We have his father in law. John Ramsey's father-in-law patsy Z.. Ramsey's father working for John Ramsey. So this statement by Nedra from patsies mother is not just simply somebody who's on the outside outside looking in who just overheard this from John and Patsy. This is somebody that has insider knowledge of things going on and access graphics. According to Kathy Merrick and Geoff Merrick their alibi for the night. In question is they visited Kathy's brother in law in Aurora Colorado and then visited Dick and Diane Foot and they were home around eight PM Watch. TV and then went to bat so not a great alibi and the stuff that I see in front of me here. Captain States that they did not cooperate in the sense of giving fingerprints blood hair handwriting samples. I couldn't find a confirmation that those things were provided from. Geoff Merrick to do the authorities. I will say this. He was questioned multiple times and he did answer their questions and he to just Gary Merriman was one. That said I'm here. You're answering your questions. Where is John Ramsey? He's accused me of this of being a suspect. And I'm reading in the papers that you guys are unable to speak to do the Ramsey family. Were they able to test his DNA to do you know chess information that I have states that none of that was provided to police. But they're pretty pretty much kinda rolled him out I again. I don't have any information stating that. They ruled amount. I the information I have states. He was questioned multiple times to which he ultimately ended up getting confrontational with them in the end because he's reading in the paper and seeing on TV that the RAMSEYS are untouchable and they won't answer the polices questions. But here you are disrupting my personal life right by asking me the same questions on several occasions. Those Kitto Guy. Chris Wolf Yeah. His real name is Robert Christian Wolff. He's extremely interesting to me for a number of reasons one. He's not somebody that was on the inner circle of the Ramseys or on the inner circle of access graphics. This is like an unknown intruder. He comes to our attention from his girlfriend. His girlfriend Jackie Adilson. She comes forward to police in states. 'cause remember there is a time that's going on here where the the police and the ramseys are asking the public for their help so she comes forward to boulder police estates. Did it. Chris Wolf was out all night long regarding the night in question and when he came home he was covered in mud and he was acting acting extremely strange. This is all her opinion. Obviously the weird connection he may have. Is this kind of furthers. Is this suspicion along here. Is this same girlfriend ads. The he should be considered a suspect in the death in the murder of Suzanne Suzanne Chase who was killed December. Twenty first nineteen ninety-seven wolf apparently dated Suzanne Chase at some appoint his knowledge regarding the Ramseys or the case itself. He was a journalist who worked as a reporter therefore Colorado daily and for the Boulder County business reports and apparently he interviewed Cheryl McGraw. Who is a secretary? The AD access graphics he comes onto our radar again by a tip from his girlfriend at the time. It states here now. This is his own claims so I cannot back this up. But Wolf was a guest on the O'Reilly relief factor and this was from May of two thousand two thousand where he states in his interview that he did provide fingerprints and hair air and handwriting samples again. That's his claims. The weird thing about Chris Wolf though is his alibi is completely the opposite statement. Eight minutes from his girlfriend's Chris Wolf says I was in bed early approximately nine thirty or ten PM. I did not wake up or get up or go out until the next morning right. According to the book perfect murder perfect town it does state the Chris Wolf did provide his DNA and it was not a match for what they were looking looking for the next one. We're going to have to call the unknown suspect and this is in reference to a crime that occurred just nine months after her job in a was murdered. This takes place in an affluent part of boulder not terribly far from the ramseys home. A mother and her twelve year old daughter came home from the movies. They are alone in their home. It's late the MOM sets the burglar alarm and goes to bed. An intruder crept into the girl's bedroom. He put his hand over. The girl's mouth said the girl's name and told her he knew her he. He starts a sexual assault and it's believed he was working toward a possible abduction of this girl as well but the mother she wakes up she hears noises and goes to her daughter's room she sees the man he runs and he goes out of a a bedroom window jumps off the roof to the ground below and flees the area. The man was dressed in all black from head to toe and wearing a mask mask. This twelve year old girl attended the same dance studio as Jon. Benet the dance West Studio. This person has never for been identified and we have the father of the victim who says he believes that the intruder may have already been hiding inside the home mm-hmm when the mother and daughter returned to the house just waiting there to attack this girl right. We've seen that and a lot of different cases. Seems like to me like like this is a great lead in something that law enforcement should a follow up on more because we have that connection of the dance studio in and having the especially A Predator that is able to go to a place that he knows that kids are going to be at he can walk in there freely really basically stock these individuals and then attack them their home the dance studio very well could have nothing to do with that attack right. He's a weird connection to getting us back to Johnnie's case their home not being terribly far from the ramseys the right the a second crime taking place just nine months later. Those are all very weird things that really put a chance that this offender is somehow somehow in the the circle of the Ramseys or the neighborhood or that dance studio is really truly interesting and the other thing too. I WANNA point out for me anyway. If the intruder theory in the Ramsey case is in fact correct then I believe that we need to have a certain level of criminal sophistication. Where here we have that? And this particular crime we see somebody. The is good at getting into the home. They got close to the assault salt. They were seeking potential abduction of this girl and they were able to flee the area without being identified. Okay so there is some sophistication there but way back in two thousand and four Erin. Moriarty reported the following the Boulder District Attorney. Investigators haven't completely rolled out anyone and have a list of people they'd like to talk to reportedly more than one hundred names. It's a list that still includes Gerry. Olivia and anyone. Who can shed more light on? The mysterious death of Michael Hell Goth and that includes their friends and associates associates that investigators strongly consider people of interest. There is now what is believed to be a complete DNA profile of Jon. Benet Ramsey's killer. You're an unknown male. There is strong evidence that he may have had an accomplice and he may have tried to kill again Simplisafe is my choice for home. Security it's comprehensive professional home security and a fair price and right. Now is the best time of year to get a simplisafe security system my listeners get a free security security camera plus a huge discount on your security system visit simplisafe dot com slash garage a free camera plus simplisafe's holiday savings this offers a limited time only and it's ending soon visit simplisafe dot com slash garage today that simplisafe dot com slash garage Raj introducing the Jeffrey Epstein New a new podcast from CNN hosted by Vicki Ward. The seven episode series takes you behind hind the scenes to hear a one of a kind account of Epstein an individual. Who's more myth than man Vicky Ward has been reporting on Jeffrey Epstein for almost two decades and takes listeners beyond the headlines to explore who Jeffrey Epstein really was where he got his money and the circumstances surrounding his death? Subscribe up to the Jeffrey Epstein. I knew wherever you get your podcast. A really great way to listen to true crime garage and check out. All of our old episodes is the free stitcher APP and a really great other. Show listen to. It's called off the record. It's our other show. It's on stitcher premium. You can go to true crime garage dot Com to learn more about both of those. Thank you to everyone for joining us in the garage today. Please join us again tomorrow for episode six until then would be good. I don't the.

Jon benet Ramsey Jon Jon Benet Ramsey Santa Bill murder RAMSEYS Bill Bill Janet Santa Claus John John investigator boulder bill mcreynolds Ramseys John Ramsey Gary Olivia Jon benet Colorado Janet
JonBenet Ramsey: Episode Two

OWL Once Was Lost Podcast

19:35 min | 3 months ago

JonBenet Ramsey: Episode Two

"Off hello everybody and welcome to another edition of the owl one choice lost podcast. We are the podcasting tool to the owl once was lost missing persons phone application. Please hit the Subscribe button. If you've downloaded this second page of a four-part series, please also download the once was lost missing persons phone application for IOS and Android users and be a part of the solution to what's truly need an epidemic. You'll find the link in the show notes. There's over 800,000 children that go missing in the us alone each year and a lot of these cannot just be prevented but be solved by using an app such as long the owl once was lost a pin the Simplicity of its design. We also encourage you to please go to our patreon page and pledge to help our efforts. Please go to patreon.com that's patreon was lost. That's o s t and just pledged $3 a month in helping us to maintain the app keep the podcast running. There are some higher tiers that have some merch included as well if you'd like if there is a missing-person uploaded to the phone app, we have a real shot at finding the individual within that first crucial hour. So let's go ahead and get a job. Restarted again. So we were just getting to Henley the DEA in the cage and we'll just remind you that the last part that we had left off. That was however, once one Insider said that Hunter the DA for a reminder for you guys off twice removed from the case and Hunter admits that he depends on Peter halstrom for his information. He's the one that keeps keeping me advised. He's what I consider to be the the guide which some say is the problem. The Burly hoffstrom is an old friend of several of Ramses lawyers and often socializes with had his partner Brian Morgan confronted by police officials about such as seemingly impropriety hoffstrom reported fumed. I'm not stopping my breakfast with Brian. I've known him for twenty years Patrick Burke one of wage. That's these lawyers has also been sighted says an investigator standing at the door of the off-limits War Room chatting with Hofstra Mane to Muth and when investigators finally cracked the Ramsey team and to having its clients provide handwriting samples. It was done not at the police station, but it ha streams house as if it were a goddamn afternoon tea persisting hot stream is retired detective Lou Smith described a hunter as an ace or a fox but his critics in the police department as more of a delusional old man how they see him Schmitt quickly came to believe that the ramseys were good Christians and capable of committing such a crime both the DEA and police sources say that it was hoffstrom who argued to provide the ramseys with copies of their original statements and police reports if they would sit down just talk with the police these actions promote prompted a firestorm of criticism off. From legal experts the District Attorney's Office the Ramsey legal team and the Boulder Police have all refused numerous requests for responses to this story. So Monday in early July, I was contacted by a source with firsthand knowledge of the investigation. I arranged to meet with him in a parking lot outside a boulder edgy and fearful. He said he was speaking with the only as a last resort. He said that with the flow of privileged confidential information critical to a case against the ramseys has been leaked from the DA's office to the ramseys lawyers within the efficacy of a sieve or basically a net. It's just coming right through directly. He said that the ramseys have been provided with copies of all the most sensitive and Krakow police and detective reports as well as reproductions of both the ransom note and the practice know found the same day patents team even persuaded hoffstrom and Hunter to give them. That viewings of the original Ransom notes and the actual ligature and Garrett that was used to strangle JonBenet. The ramseys best defense attorneys are stuck inside Hunter's office. He mumbled bitterly. The sharing of such information said Fain 25-year FBI veteran Greg McCreary is unprecedented and unprofessional an obstruction of justice. It's criminal. It's possibly you could make a case for prosecutorial malfeasance. It's completely compromise the investigation off and on January 4th. One of Ramsay's private investigators left a message on his answering machine asking him to join their team as a profiler McQueary had his secretary called wage decline. He says because on a ratio of 12 to one child murders are committed by parents or a family member, which is true. That's the case in this case. You also log Of an elaborate staging which was the ransom note the placement of the child's body and I have never in my career seen or heard about a staging where it was not a family murder or someone very close to the family. Just the note alone told me the killer was in the family or close to it. They asked me to take a polygraph says former Ramsey friend, Jeff Marek. I said sure no problem. As soon as John Ramsey takes one according to confidential source and unedited tape of the ramseys January 1st CNN appearance in Atlanta, which had been a pain by a court order in March was also handed over to had his office but Hofstra and turned down repeated police request to subpoena records of the ramseys toll phone calls and credit card purchases. The Source also explained the delay in the Ramsey police interviews, the ramseys lawyers had initially demanded that Patsy and John be interviewed at the same time that the interview not exceed nine minutes that all previous police statements made by the ramseys and others be provided to them and that beat Hofstra and be present throughout the FBI came in and looked the demand life given to the DA from the ramseys it said no way you're not you're not going to do this interview early on the police had invited the FBI to assist but according to the source the DA's teams just recorded everything the FBI expert suggested the DEA blew up with the police, but they canceled and endured the Wrath of the media the ramseys and the DA's office and the FBI stood up for them according to McCreery if there's a tutorial on how not to conduct an interview, this would be it. The interview finally took place on April 30th, though, four months after the murder after being pounded for refusing to cooperate with police. The ramseys gave into separate interviews wage, they held fast to their demand for a copy of the entire police file and the presence of halstrom Patrick Burke and one of his private investigators sat next to Patsy who answered questions for 6 and 1/2 hours. John Ramsey was accompanied by Brian Morgan and another private investigator for his ninety minute session. The questioning was conducted by detectives wage and real and Steve Thomas provider. The Ramsey interviews as show-and-tell presentation of been arranged by the Ramsey lawyers to convince hunter that their clients had no written a ransom note according to police reports Patsy had given two accounts of the morning events. Mrs. Ramsey told me that she had gone into jonbenet's room at about 5:45 a.m. Wake her up officer French were finding the room empty. She went down the spiral back stairs where she discovered the note later. She said she found the note on the spiral back stairs when she went down to make coffee and then ran into Jon benet's room. The note was written in upper and lowercase printed letters also discovered on the pad was a practice note beginning with mister and mrs. Ramsey kidnappers says McCreery do not spend hours at a time at a crime scene after murdering their victims composing letters the actual race note reads Mister Ramsey. Listen carefully. We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction. We respect your business, but not the country that it serves at that time. We have your daughter in our possession She is safe and unharmed and if you want to see her in nineteen, ninety seven, you must follow her instructions to the letter you will withdraw 150. $18,000 from your account $100,000 will be in $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills. Make sure that you bring an adequate size attache case to the bank when you get home. You will put the money in a brown paper bag and I will call you between 8 and 10 a.m. Tomorrow to instruct you on delivery. The delivery will be exhausting, So I advise you to be rested if we monitor you getting the money early we might call you early to arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence an earlier pick-up of your daughter off any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate execution of your daughter. You will also be denied her remains for proper burial the two gentlemen watching over your daughter. Do not particularly like you so I advise you not to provoke them speaking to anyone about your situation such as police or FBI will result in your daughter being dead. Added if we catch you talking to a stray dog. She dies if you alert Bank Authorities, she dies if the money is in any way marked or tampered with she dies, you will be scanned project Raonic devices and if any are found she dies, you can try to get to deceive us but be warned we are familiar with law enforcement countermeasures and tactics you stand in ninety-nine percent chance of killing your daughter. If you try to outsmart us follow our instructions and you stand a hundred percent chance of getting her back you and your family are under constant scrutiny as well as the authorities. Don't try to grow a brain John. You're the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult don't underestimate us John use that good Southern wage for sense of yours. It's up to you now, John victor e s b t c is how it was signed investigators questioned why Ramsey seemed to stall over getting the ranch? Money, if you truly believe that the note had been written by dangerous kidnappers the money never left. The bank says one Insider dryly out of the 74 name submitted for testing Patsy's handwriting was the only one that set off an alarm Bell said an investigator closely involved with the testing of the ransom note it Colorado Bureau of Investigation or CBI report concludes. There are indications that the author of The Ransom note is Patricia Ramsey, but the evidence fall short to support that definitive conclusion Hunters team asked the police to accompany them hadn't seemed demonstration at the office of Mike Bynum. The tables were arranged in a horseshoe said The Insider and six of the Ramsey attorneys were there watching the detectives watch their to Hancock experts. It was total bullshit Hunter and demuth or nodding their heads in an agreement as these guys are talking Ramsey's attorney leave Foreman was seen giving demuth a back rub during a break job. After the demonstration Alex Hunter was overheard asking. How hat and well where should we go from here? Why are these showing us unindicted uncharged murder suspects as all the evidence The Source asked is this some privileged Discovery process available to Rich Boulder rights? Everything they have done is against the advice of the Boulder Police the FBI and the Attorney General's capital crimes unit. It's cold outside and I suggest that we find a late night coffee shop in the car. I can see the depth of this man's education. I've seen politics and preferential treatment Place such a major role in different cases, but nothing like this. He says if the ramseys had been some poor Mexican couple they would have been in their face for a week got a profession out of them and file first-degree murder charges against him within days if we file or we don't file these people are doomed says district attorney Alex Hunter wage. Been tried and convicted in the court of public opinion. It's not as if the police have been committed their own share of blunders here in the first 48 hours. They made crucial mistakes, including not conducting a thorough search of the house that separating the ramseys and taking everyone down to the station for questioning and not sealing the crime scene and subsequent days according to the source Linda arndt contains need to speak regularly with Patsy and her close friends. In fact in the first week of January without permission from the Department aren't gave Ramsey's Attorney Patrick Burke a copy of the ransom note. There should have been thunder rolling down the halls of the PV and shit didn't happen says one Observer. She could be the mark Fuhrman of this case in mid-may. Linda arndt was taken off the case with other public relations disaster ensued detective division Commander John Eller greatly admired by his team, but the tested by the DA's office for his tenacity in pursuing the Ramsey. Applied for the job of police chief in Cocoa Beach, Florida, very Mason, Linda our supervisor who had been dismissed from the case in January sued LR4 Jim damaging his reputation home and in June Chief Tom Kobe took a two-week vacation in Houston. Where was widely rumored that should his old pal Lee Brown when election as mayor he'd like to be to say these new police chief weeks earlier the police Union had voted no confidence in their Chief and soon after city manager Tim Hony Kobe's good friend and biggest cheerleader resigned Kobe's kind of police work is social work said the confidential Source scornfully morale became so low that mayor Leslie Durgin received an assurance from Coby that he would see the cake through the matter what mistakes the police made they have been exponentially compounded by blunders and improprieties in the DA's office by May according to the confidential. Source the police and the DEA were conducting separate investigations Hast Rammstein, he said was committed to shielding the ramseys while the police were convicted convinced that the ramseys murmur that they I'm sorry that the ramseys murdered their daughter and covered up the crime the police. He added have been supported throughout by the FBI and the CBI these guys tell the cops. They have never seen anything like this. He says before reciting a Litany of unprecedented actions by the DEA murder suspects which are routinely requested to submit to a polygraph test. But when a active told Hoss run to ask to Ramsey's for one, he snapped no way they would only refuse it. May ha storms assistant trip to Muth sat down with Ramsey's attorney Brian Morgan to formulate the the first of a series of reward ads which ran into Boulder paper on June 1st later the da responding to a barrage of criticism admitted his office's involvement in the ad. By April the police have decided that they could do no longer share and all that information with the DEA and that they would keep their most damning evidence to themselves in June. A war room compact was allegedly broken into two weeks later his statement from the CBI reported that there had been a glitch in the system never the last says the confidential Source three experts pulled off actives definitively that the computer was hacked since then the police have considered asking the governor to bring in a special prosecutor or simply arresting the ramseys themselves off the affidavits for the rest have been ready to serve since May said the source, perhaps were seeing the possibility of a police Mutiny Hunter told me in June the police could go to a judge without coming to see me and submit an affidavit for an arrest warrant. They could do that. But the DEA would then say that's great, but I'm not bringing the charges. So as I was leaving Hunter mused aloud if we took I'll are we don't file these people are doomed they have been tried and convicted in the court of public opinion already every week the tabloids in every supermarket in America scream verdict on the ramseys with headlines that read daddy. Did it been a autopsy Mom and Dad guilty handwriting evidence fingers Patsy mom wrote Ransom note Jamba Juice grape shocker. Dad link to kiddie porn Scandal. Jonbenet's mom knows to kill her hubby. All right guys, we're going to break their for today. It was a good little snippet and then we're going to keep it going here off on the next week. Please remember to subscribe to the podcast. Please hit the five stars for us. So again, we get those algorithms moving as I mentioned every week. That's what helps us to get found here on Apple iTunes and also you can leave reports on the Google Play store and just you know, just leave some good good vibes. Or if you've got any suggestions, we're we're open to any suggestions as well and always trying to make the podcast better. So we're going to leave it there for today guys. Look forward to finishing this up in the next week or two, This is a great case. If any of your old enough to remember it, you know, we'll get to this a little bit later but there's even more tragedy that occurs within this family. There's a lot of weird obviously things going on with this note How It Was Written and specifically with the amount that's being asked for this hundred and $18,000 which just so happened to be specific amount of money associated with Jon benet's Father which, you know will get too. So that's it. I'm Drew and I'm out until next week. Thank you guys.

Patricia Ramsey FBI Alex Hunter Patsy DEA DA The Source investigator murder Boulder Police Brian Morgan Patrick Burke ramseys attorney CBI us Jon benet boulder Hofstra Mane
158 - The Mysterious Death of JonBenet Ramsey

Timesuck with Dan Cummins

2:25:06 hr | 1 year ago

158 - The Mysterious Death of JonBenet Ramsey

"As a parent I can't imagine anything worse than losing a child. I can't imagine a a worse way to lose a child and to have that child be murdered could get worse than that. Yes it could what if you were told to. Your child was sexually assaulted before they were murdered. What does that happen to them when they were just six years old? Could it get worse the that of course it can what if they were murdered in your home while you slept peacefully in your bed. What if they were murdered the night after Christmas killed in the basement after another successful for Christmas where everyone got what they wanted and the dream home your family lived in the dream home you bought with the money you made after busting your ass for years launching your own business merging with two other businesses becoming president new company position it for massive buyout making millions along the way? What if your daughter was taken from you just five short years removed from the loss of another other one your daughter's you just recovered as much as one can recover from the first loss you just rebuilt your life after divorce and death spectacularly rebuilt it and and then this happens? Could it get worse than that yes sadly there is almost always room for at least a little bit of worse what if view of the one to find her dead body and then you became one of the prime suspects in her murder and your wife became another and then your nine year old son became the third what if the court quarter public opinion decided that one of you to of you are all of you had to have killed your daughter and then that stigma followed you for the rest of your life and then you're self-made fortune faded away the homes and the boats and more sold to pay for massive legal fees tabloid after tabloid accusing you of murder everywhere you go people looking at you and discussed it doesn't get much worse than that and this is exactly what may have happened to John Bennett Ramsey father of the six-year-old beauty pageant winner Jon Benet Ramsey who was murdered the Ramsey Colorado home in nineteen ninety six despite being publicly exonerated by the district attorney's office as a suspect in his daughter's death years after first being accused jonbenet Albany Ramsey's murder still remains unsolved many still thinker father John had something to do with it. Do I think he did it or had something to do with it. Did his wife do it or I don't know. I really don't my God. This is a confusing one. I felt dizzy doing this research more. You unravel this case. The more complicated gets right when you think you know who did it. A new piece of the puzzle comes along away just obliterates all of your former resolve curious what conclusions you'll come to today. We take a deep dive into the mysterious murder of Jon Benet Ramsey. One of the most infamous unsolved murder cases in American history on another who done it true crime edition of time suck. This is Michael McDonald and you're listening to time suck overstate happy Monday made sacks the content parade continues here ear on time suck a hundred and fifty eight straight weeks of deep dives dives. I've gotten deeper each year just over three years now yeah Ya AH HAIL NIMROD BE GONE LOSE Phoenix Praise bojangles praise Michael McDonald triple lamb Michael Mother fucking McDonalds and thanks for listening because it has been three years we just released a reprint of the very first time suck t for anniversary a little birthday here on the show. The original tea features the original logo so many of you probably have never even seen that logo the Oh gee I edition tea is back now in two colors navy blue and original gray and Isabella three thousand one hundred a hundred percent cotton and for old time sake. It's also made of one hundred percent real baby skin just like the first time I've forgotten we started that dark with our fabric choice yikes oh Mayak my Lanta whoo so check out the time suck shop vice doors easy to find Google is linked to it from the APP subscriptions. Well thank you for all the recent ratings and reviews over nine thousand ratings over twenty three hundred reviews on itunes alone appreciate it so much appreciate it thousands of you who gave my new Hor podcasts I do with with my wife. Lindsey Queen scared to death. Listen this past week at a small tech dilemma. It's on all the usual podcast players now and charting charting on I tunes is big time so Oh man couldn't be happier about that. You can watch me try and scare my wife Lindsey with two tales of allegedly true panel whore on Youtube. I suggest giving it a look this time time round. It's visually visual more stimulating than than you know me sitting here talking to you. A new episode will drop every Tuesday night at the stroke before Midnight Pacific Time apparently saying midnight. It's too confusing. I realize when you say midnight. No one knows which you're talking about so we're it's Tuesday night. The stroke before midnight scared to death. Give her chance hoping I had a blast this past week and Phoenix had to record this before travelling. I'm guessing had a great time getting to see Jimmy Whitman James Patrick Gallo from the fantastic true crime podcast crime sports small town murder those guys know how to put on good shows a plans to hang out with them both and James Lovely Hilarious wife Sarah some. I'm hoping by the time I'm year this I had a great time hanging out. All of them love that crew the Detroit stand up special shows are now both sold out GonNa be a blast. Thank you so much small chance additional tickets. We'll go on sale. The day of depends on some tech stuff depends on if there's extra room in the venue after they've set up all the cameras sometimes there will be sometimes it won't be if there are a few tickets available last minute. I will post about it at at Dan. Cummins comedy on Instagram at Dan Collins Comedy Instagram's will follow Nimrod wills. It's if you want a chance to go to that show tickets are available for this weekend shows in Indianapolis Helium Comedy Club in Tampa Side splitters October tenth thirteenth also to my ten thousand laughs comedy festival show in Minneapolis October nineteenth and then as Portland Oregon Columbus Ohio Denver Colorado Grand Rapids Michigan Tacoma and spokane Washington to finish out two two thousand nine hundred thousand to wrap up the happy murter Dan Komen Dot TV for more tour Info lasting. I keep fucking up once charity website. It's youth on on record dot Org impulse was last month. He was saying the right charity by giving the wrong website so youth on record dot org three thousand dollars this month to Denver's us on record dot Org Click on that site and the EPA description to find out how great they really are. I Linda may be on their podcast. They do a podcast about the good things are doing what I do. My shows in Denver Denver okay time now to move on over to today's colorado-based topic the mysterious murder the very mysterious murder of young beauty queen a Ah a victim. I mean they're always taken too soon but especially this case taking far far too soon Jon benet Ramsey in the story begins a day after Christmas nineteen ninety-six almost twenty three years ago the Ramsey family only had just hosted a lavish successful Christmas party on Christmas Day. The ramseys were John and Patricia Ramsey knows patsy nine year old son Burke Ramsey and their six year old daughter Jon on Benet Ramsey John also had two living children from his first marriage twenty year old John Andrew and twenty-four-year-old Melinda Spending Christmas in one thousand nine hundred sixty with their mother Cindy John's First Wife in Marietta Georgia Giorgi Georgia Giorgi Down in Georgia. Oh Georgia land getting my ticket to Georgie the Ramsey ABC family lives in an affluent area of boulder and huge seven thousand two hundred Forty Square Foot Tudor style dream home at seven four nine Fifteenth Street and the exclusive Swank Lancaster neighborhood of Chappaqua good name good name for an expensive neighbor. It might be Chappaqua Shaniqua. I think yeah I said that's the way better named for a nice neighborhood like toilet nuggets or missing fingernails. That's rough one shirking swing by where you live again missing fingernails he you know what I can't swing doing by. I thought I thought you bought a place in Chappaqua. People named Flint and Chad live in a place called Chappaqua people name shredder and Gumbo Live and missing fingernails fingernails on the Ramsey home cost John five hundred thousand dollars which home wise is like a million or two today maybe more than two million over the next two years patchy remodeled decorated to the tune of an additional seven hundred thousand dollars. They're doing all right in the money department the average price of a home in this neighborhood today according to real estate apps like Trulia and realtor dot com is somewhere between two and three million million the former seven bedroom eight bath Ramsey home is valued just over three million dollars right now built in nineteen twenties exquisitely landscaped large private backyard card has three fireplaces a match takes up the entire top floor of a two story home that also features a large basement level thousand was so nice the Ramsey family had it listed on the Boulder Christmas tour as well as on a regular home tour in boulder when people visited and between fifteen hundred to two thousand guests would visit each year Passi would would take them a would meet him but the door was Jon Benet burke her side each of them wearing perfect little matching sweaters you know that they had to wear to make mama happy and nineteen ninety-six. Jonah just turned fifty three He. He just got an a six figure work bonus days earlier he was married to a forty year old former beauty queen. He was crushing life not only did he and his model Stepford wife tight family have an amazing home in boulder they also stunning summer Home Lake Michigan and the twenty five hundred person picturesque little lake town of charlevoix situated between Lake Lake Michigan and the western end of Lake Show Voi- which drains into Lake Michigan through the short round Lake Pine River Complex in the heart of downtown Charlevoix little summer resort town. It's been that way since the eighteen eighties waterfront home was one thousand seven hundred thousand square feet for bedroom for half baths valued over three hundred thirty thousand dollars at the time time the idea around a million dollars now the ramseys also maintain a third residents in Atlanta Georgia where they lived before moving to boulder drove luxury cars had a boats John had two separate it private planes they use pie license to fly around in they had big parties they would throw some of which would cost upwards of thirty thousand dollars and have actors performing part. I mean crushing rushing it. especially for Bolder Boulder Colorado still didn't even have one hundred thousand people in Nineteen. ninety-six only has one hundred ten thousand now. The Metro area has around three hundred douses mostly known as the home of Colorado's biggest university. The University of Colorado the buffaloes and the ramseys were kind of a big deal in boulder. Now you're GONNA have less members of the upper crust in a place like boulder then you're going to have some place at San Francisco or Manhattan. They were rich attractive had two well behaved beautiful kids burke was shy and quiet little Jon Benet was the exact exact opposite by the age of six already one America's Royal Miss Little Miss Charlevoix Little Miss Colorado Colorado State all-star kids covergirl the crown of national tiny miss beauty and more watch videos love singing and dancing in public or tiny body exuded charisma choose little star. Her Dad was one of the city's rising business stars her mom moms want towns premier socialites and her brother well yeah he was there to nine and cute and he smiled for all the family photos. If you live anywhere near the time Amazon Benes short life you'll probably remember you know some of Genie's beauty pageant pictures on the covers of almost every grocery store tabloid there week after week month after month year after year following her death. I still see her face at the grocery store. She's on the cover. Something just a few weeks ago some tabloid and it's been over twenty years since her death. Her death fascinated fascinated America at a level comparable to Nicole Simpson or Caley Anthony actually more Nicole's probable killer. OJ Simpson Keighley's probable killer Casey. Anthony Don sucks on both of them. They got more media attention than Jon Benet Murder Suspect John Patricia Burke Ramsey and others but as a homicide victim I I can't think of literally anyone who has got the same level of media exposure as Jon Benet Ramsey not even Natalie Holloway who infamously disappear almost a decade later in Aruba. Why did her case receive so much? Coverage will partially because she was a little beauty pageant winner. Let's be honest America Covets beautiful creatures more than those deemed not not as attractive beautiful people to covers more magazines and tabloids than the ugly people alive or dead and they always will also I think in in my lifetime at least because of a also because her family was wealthy. Americans are endlessly fascinated by opulence those who lives so many of us only dream about no one would give of to Fox about the car crashes if they were pouring ugly I mean wealth is a big part of the American dream. Is it not when you hear examples of people making it never tell us about let them live modestly barely paying bills being great parents being heavily involved in their community. You know doing hands on charity work. No it's tails. The people coming from nothing ended up richest faulk back then. Maybe doing some good with that money money. We love money here in America. I love my a little of freedom it can give you I get it and also part of the fascination surrounding the murder murder of Jon Benet has to do with children's beauty pageants. How could it not back in nineteen ninety six over a decade before shows like the at best creepy and at worst softcore or pedophile porn toddlers and Tiaras and the so bad? I wondered if it was a possible sign of an impending apocalypse. The first time I heard about it here comes honey boo boo very few people even a new these pageants existed scene is sixty seen a six year old girl decked out and make up and outfits that would seem you know possibly overly sexual worn by a sixteen year old girl captured the public's attention. It became fascinated because it's so what the fuck is going on here confusing. Why is this happening who dresses or kindergarten like that? Why was your mom's so into her being a model at such a young age and I mean seriously who does that who dresses up their six year old and bright red lipstick teases out their hair puts tons of foundation Mascara scare an island or on the face addressing essentially a mini skirt and cowboy boots and tight tank top Nazar dancing singing for an audience grownups fucking weird it also takes glamor shots were she's posing obviously sexualize ways like a photographer asked my eleven year old daughter to pose in similar ways as I've seen after research Jon benet reposing in Glamour shots? I would have a little what the fuck are you doing bud conversation with guy. Tell him he's leave right now unless he wants his camera and possibly parts of his perverted body a broken broken. All my hack hack gets me fired up but their parents have anything to do with a murder. Maybe maybe not will occur in both directions basic ecstatic on child murder lean towards the likelihood that Jon Benet was killed by someone within her own family but the brutality of the crime points towards someone outside inside the home. It's crazy case and it only gets crazy. The more you look at it spawned dozens of books documentaries theories that range from a simple cover by rich parents to Satanic Child Porn rings things of course to John Being Alive today and performing his pop star Katy Perry seriously. That's a that's a conspiracy not just some of my tomfoolery and yes we will for sure have an idiot to the Internet segment today before we dive into a time line expiration in this case. Let's take a quick look context start with Kitty pageant kosher then quick little bio for each member of the Boulder Ramsey household child pageantry in America consists of about two hundred and fifty thousand children who compete in around five thousand pageants nationwide nationwide each year makes almost fourteen paget's for kids a day own my heck what the fudge stink in Gali Dead Nabet of that disturbs me because so many straight dudes are biologically hardwired to want to see women naked more than we want to see food on our table or the sun keep coming up. We already have more than enough sexualization in society. Here's some porn stats. I've found porn sites attract more visitors each month and Amazon and Netflix combined thirty percent of all Internet content is Porn fifty-six percent of divorces involve one spouse having an obsessive interest in online porn twenty percent of all mobile web searches are porn the world in general already struggles with giving women more than just a sexual identity because most porn is negative women so why the fuck would any parent in the right mind WanNa push their daughter into already been physically objectified when she's only six years old. I know that's not how they see it but that is how it's perceived creeps. I she's going to have to deal with that. Shit soon enough. Give her a few years to enjoy your childhood. I stutter letter fart and fucking Pinault's in shops smell NYC fucking hot garbage no dirt on her face and scraped up knees because she tried doing some sick as trick on her fucking bike letter letters be a kid but digress back to beauty pageants. The beauty pageants for adult women have existed in one form or another for centuries for example Medieval Brits celebrated May Day by having a little who looks the hottest in the long form thin bitten kind of our form Haydn. I guess more poofy White Dress Show and picking a May queen pageants got going in America in the Mid Nineteenth Century famous circus entrepreneur or businessmen all around exploitation machine. Hopefully Future Suck p.t barnum organized America's First Beauty Pageant for adult women in eighteen fifty four and it did not go well. The public protested parading women out in front of men in judging them on their looks was immoral indecent. It caused quite to kerfluffle instead of giving up on the whole idea of judge human beings made sack solely on their physical attractiveness borrowing thought well if they won't let me exploit women what if I could explore some babies and the very next year eighteen fifty-five a national contest barnum orchestrated called the national baby show attracted one hundred and forty-three child contestants and sixty one thousand viewers and then baby parades soon became all the rage around the country in the coming decades and there are still baby pageants today quick Google search to to sunburst beauty dot com Jon Jon Benet did some sunburst beauty pageants and they have competitions for girls from the age of just popped out a mom's baby whole to the age of twenty seven and that's it. That's it nothing for those twenty eight and up up. I guess I guess twenty eight is is ancient in the Padua just boo get that twenty eight year old office stage we came here. See some heart kids Ed's if you go to chowder baby patch and by the way I highly encourage you to use the word hot as much as possible in sexy. I don't WanNa do show by himself wearing aviator. VR Sunglasses indoors and having his hands in his pockets all the time standing in the back of the room. Just yelling shit like yeah knows kids. Don't hothouse babies talking about route say sexy hot near Saint Somebody sexy kids one hotel hot sexy babies then I want that they can stop having fucking weird pageants. That'll fuck it. Shut it down. An an expert on baby contests explained that many of these baby pageants babies have been historically in the early one stripped naked and judged by physicians according to a meticulous point system like the Houston cattle judging as what the nineteenth century beauty pageants works. That's cool cool yeah. It's not fucked up at all. Hey Lady come grab your degrade baby. Get the hell out of here where scarce him. It's a beauty pageant not an audition for Halloween Halloween House a horse once you take your Saka fussily sneak out the back they aren't you scared are hot sexy. Baby's cyber baby conscious went on hiatus in the nineteen eighteen fifties as a baby parades. Why 'cause people finally decided is pretty fucked up? Start Great Mates acts on their physical appearance when they're still in diapers. JK They didn't care about that at all. kids started getting polio and events where large groups of random children would needlessly congregate in public starting to seem like a like a dumb idea polo another various communicable diseases pre vaccine days. Luckily the polio vaccine became widely available in the late fifties and wouldn't you know it by nine hundred sixty one youth America were healthy enough to once again. Participate Peyton pageants nine hundred sixty one America's first official child beauty pageant got going yeah marshalls March kids on the stage palisades amusement park in Palisades. All Saints New Jersey started hold a weekly contest the summer from nineteen sixty one thousand nine hundred seventy one called Little Miss America the contest name was meant to evoke the adult Miss America pageant and which have been running since one thousand nine hundred eighty one but actually was not affiliated with it and Little Miss America was big hit drew roughly six thousand competitors each week and I'm guessing at least twice that many pitfalls the massive success little Miss American pageants did not go unnoticed by the people who like to make money and or work with with hot kids are regional creepy. The regional child beauty pageants began to spring up unlike little Miss America which is free to enter hadn't dress requirements for talent competition new competitions mimicked adult pageants more offering offering contestants the chance to compete in categories like talent and party wear these pageants developed into various children pageants that we know and hey today the worst one I found. Did you know that there is now an annual pageant Las Vegas for eight to thirteen girls called L. H. hoedown Yup the little Miss Hustler hoedown one of the categories pole fitness because of all the poll all finished classes nine year olds g-strings doing stripper moves in front of middle aged dudes judges and audience primarily men who are allowed to take as many pictures as they want as long as flash turned off. That's fine just no flash. That's the only rule kid's crotch shots that's fine. No flash also tease competition with the kids dance on a catwalk and take off after close they go all the way down to their underwear and because their kids it's not illegal for them to go topless so they can even take off their tops and they do and they end up bare-chested in front of these fucking dudes is gross and if you don't believe that it's real go ahead and check it out for yourself. Go to the website it's. WWW dot get the fuck out of here dot no not yet. None of that stuff is happening yet. Hopefully never will. I hope you're hope your outrage for a moment there as you heard all of that and you didn't think it was a big deal. I want you to focus less on podcasts to focus a lot more in therapy. If you'RE FUCKING WE'RE GONNA get my ticket out. She gives them up. Would you get some real help and pageants as bad as all that now. Oh I guess I know I'm sure a lot of people run in them have a completely different. Look at it but I do look at it like you're just like advertising your kid head for fucking pedophile. Would you dress them up enclosed it. I don't know how some of these people rationalize them not being sexually provocative. I mean it's it really and and I'm not approved by swear to God. A lot of these outfits have been row was wearing them at sixteen. I'm like whoa where where are you going. You're going to school no nightclub. Okay another round with a little bit of knowledge about the Kiddie Porn. I mean Kitty paget world. Let's take a look at the Ramseys to understand the murder of Jon Benet Ramsey. We first have to understand the FAM- the start it was Jon Benet Jon Benet Patricia Ramsey was born on August sixth nineteen ninety in land. Georgia should be just barely twenty nine years old today if she was still alive so oh crazy she would die so young if she died today she's still young. She died over twenty years ago. She was a daughter a beauty queen. The niece of another beauty queen to daughter of patchy in Jon Jon Benet was named after a feminine version of her father's first and middle names John Bennett also given her mother's name as a Middle Name Jon Benet Patricia Ramsey and these people the little little vein. I feel like that's always we never understood that the need to put your name in the name of your kids. I must make another media understandably Dan neither one of my kids have names that have anything to do with my first name or middle name which is Brent. Neither one of my kids are named for anyone of my family but but I guess they do have my last name what you don't want to be honest alike but if it was culturally normal to give kids different last names I wouldn't care to me research in his it felt like Patricia wanted to like clone herself right. Her daughter has has renamed Middle Name and said she did pageants. She makes her daughter do pageants seems hyper hyper focused on her daughter. Daughter's seemed like more like a doll her the human being you know I mean clearly you're getting pushed hard that direction. We do this stuff at the age like four. I think even younger three four five I mean she's a pageant girl raised by mom and her life revolved Aldrin Rehearsals costumes get made it pretty and competing not doing typical kids stuff. It's like she was more like a show dog or show. Ponies in a human being jonbenet Albany was youngest the two children at least on her mother's side her brother Burke nine. The time for murder was three years older by age six Jon Benet had already won multiple national pageant titles. Thanks thanks store bouncy blonde hair naturally poise smile glittery costumes Tenet the resume of a girl who only lived for less than six and a half years on this planet. This is a partial list Colorado Ratto State all star kids patching able ninety four little Miss Charlevoix July ninety four Miss Colorado Sunburst Summers one October ninety five five America's Royale Tiny Miss Division title July Ninety six America's Royale Miss Colorado Dream Queen July Ninety six. I guess it's the same one sunburst national pageants second-place August Ninety six Colorado Little Miss Christmas December seventeenth ninety-six Colorado's all-stars Christmas pageant metal for talent talent is a few days before she died December twenty second ninety-six and unfortunately there's not a lot else to say when it comes to Johnny's life since it was very short on the surface she seemed outgoing and confident was giving a plush and comfortable life and one documentary. I saw her room or bedroom and chateauroux bathroom should her own Christmas Christmas tree right before the holidays giant virtually life-size Santhal on this little kind of a couch she had in a room she was given wherever she wants tons and tons of toys. He's she seemed to be the center of her parents. Worlds very very privileged childhood before such a tragic end. I know a lot of Comedians in New York who would love to live in an apartment the size of Jon Benet old bedroom it also love to be able to furnish that apart with the same budget that was clearly used to furnish her room now more on her parents starting with her father John John Bennett Ramsay born December seventh nineteen forty three Lincoln Nebraska Ramsey moved with his family to Oklahoma Michigan at the age of fourteen his father Jay was a decorated World War Two coyote before becoming a director of the Michigan Aeronautics Commission as a teenager Ramsey competed in cross country played the band nurtured a love of aviation he inherited from his father he joined. ROTC at Michigan State University where he also met his first wife Lucinda Cindy Lou posh the the Cindy Lou the to college sweethearts were married buried in one thousand nine hundred sixty six moved the Philippines or Ramsey spent two years as navy pilot shortly after they returned to Michigan Cindy gave birth to their first daughter Elizabeth July of sixty nine Ramsey earned a master's degree in marketing from Michigan State and seventy one got a job in Michigan couple header their second child another daughter Melinda in seventy two after working locally really for two years John accepted in Atlanta sales job with an Electronics Engineering Company and seventy three before eventually striking out on his own. He has wife had their third child. John Andrew Nine hundred seventy six before divorcing in nineteen seventy eight and in the summer of seventy nine thirty five year old John met twenty two year old nine thousand nine hundred seventy seven Miss Virginia Patricia and Paul Rebounding with a with a model thirteen years younger. I'm sure his ex Cindy love that. I think it was I have in my notes miss for maybe West Virginia. It's not it's not a crucial detail to this narrative. It may be nineteen seventy seven West Miss West Virginia because that is where she grew up on anyway. yeah sure Cindy love that I'm sure she was thrilled to drop her kids off with an ex husband in his hot young model wife on November Fifteenth Nineteen Eighty Jonah Patricia and go bypass has he got married that we continue to live in Atlanta John's Ex and apparently they did get along pretty well for the next six years. They fucked so so much you know they he did. John didn't marry a young model mostly for conversation. I mean let's be honest he didn't he didn't January twenty seven thousand seventy seven Patricia gave birth to Son Burke John's fourth child and second son Nineteen eighty-seven Ramsey also founded a tech firm called advanced products group in Roswell suburb of Atlanta business boomed named a year later nine hundred eighty nine two years later excuse me nineteen eighty-nine advanced products merged with CAD CAD SOURCES INC of Piscataway Okay New Jersey and Cad Distributors Inc.. Of Boulder Colorado to form access graphics a Computer Distribution Distribution Corporation that would be headquartered in Bowler her access graphics was a business to business wholesaler buying computer systems for manufacturers then reselling them to other companies talk a little more about it in detail but I don't WanNa put everyone to sleep. They made a lot of money to inborn shit by Nineteen ninety-six the year of Jon benet murder the company would employ about six hundred techies worldwide by about three hundred and fifty those people would work at the boulder headquarters. I then on August Sixth Nineteen Ninety John and Patsy had the little girl Mrs Ramsay had dreamed of Jon Benet in Atlanta John Third Daughter Patsies I and within a year of Jon Benet Birth Nineteen Ninety one the family moved to boulder so John Run the growing company he was president and CEO of be present at the headquarters also ninety one forty seven year old John Sells access graphics is to Lockheed Martin in American Global Aerospace Defense Security and Advanced Technologies Company major part of the Military Industrial Complex luminosity ocoee kept him on to run the company life going very well his company's growing he's making stacks and stacks of cash his ex-wife amicable. He sees kids often then in January of ninety two tragedy strikes John's oldest daughter Elizabeth die suddenly in a tragic car accident in Chicago at the twenty two less than eighteen months after the birth of Jon Benet for the next four years following Elizabeth's death life would spare John any additional hardships. John returned to work quickly following his daughter's death continued to grow his company Johns on I two kids remained healthy or or as most read yes I mean healthy and he travel to Atlanta's often you see them in his family. In Boulder thrived burke was doing well in grade eight school. Jon Benet was rocking. The pageant seen patchy stayed at home ran the family social life. John worked lots of hours continuing to make a lot of money by nineteen ninety-six. The families net worth was estimated at six six point four million dollars nineteen ninety-six money crushing it by nine hundred six John also two planes and he flew himself three homes beginning to negotiate another buyout for his company. General Electric was getting ready to buy access graphics from Lockheed Martin for Cash Huguette an untold amount of money in that sale. WHO's rich rich look like he's going to be wealthy soon? Personality wise you describe by friends is exceedingly quiet calm and collected according to family friends John Murdering anyone especially as daughter fitter age. you know one of the many theories proposed highly unlikely. He'll never seem to lose his temper about money. Check this out. This is so sad to me. The Daily Really Camera Boulder's newspaper published article about John's business success just five days before Jon Benet murder on December Twenty First Nineteen ninety-six the headline headline read access celebrates one billion dollar mark. There's a picture of John Sitting at his desk looking so happy so proud and in less than a week is live completely. Unravel photos like that weird me out right. We're you know obviously with time elapsing. You know there's something really bad happened not long after that photo but in that photo of the person being photographed has no fucking idea right in this particular photo life was going so so well and then we know man just days later everything went to shit man. You can drive easily drive yourself insane thinking about things like data. You know how he was supposed creeped me out that you know because I think about that for me. Well we all do we personalize the stuff Michael. Shit things are going well now. Today's a great day for me. What's GonNa Happen Tomorrow the day after that? I think it's good remind yourself if you spiral on that also can go a lot better and most of the time the overwhelming majority of the time things don't fall apart tomorrow okay anyway. Here's a little excerpt from that article Michael When boulder-based Computer Distributor Access Graphics Inc.. Pass to one billion dollar mark in Nineteen ninety-six revenues. It tossed a luncheon party at the Hotel Bowl Dorado on Friday Friday. A dixieland jazz ban made the rounds at access boulder offices Friday morning to announce the celebration later played at the Ball Dorado John Ramsey president of access graphics thanked about three unemployed at the gathering told him he couldn't have happened without them. The one billion dollars in sales is about twenty five percent increase over the eight hundred million the company posted last year and Ramsey foresees continued growth again future is looking bright sky was looking blue who five days for our gets killed on around the twenty first lucky mart also gave Johnny Christmas bonus of one hundred eighteen thousand dollars Papa Ramsey rich even-tempered super successful computer guy in charge of a growing corporation a business business star in boulder making somewhere between Oh my heck. That's a lot of Gosh darn money and what the fudge what can you even by with old effort flips sake any had hot wife thirteen years younger than him and bad not bad now. Let's meet his second wife. Patricia an Ramsey called Patsy by your friends and family born December twenty ninth nineteen fifty six and the tiny tiny four hundred and fifty person town of Gilbert West Virginia Gilbert is just fourteen miles from the Hatfield cemetery of the Hatfield McCoy feud fame folk full cast ah few miles from where the hatfields used to fight the mccoys and the West Virginia Kentucky border. I would be the oldest of three girls born to Donald Nedra Apo- NEDRA CAIXA. It's rough name not a sexy name address. Listen No word about mom and NEDRA compete in any pageants probably wasn't allowed to sign up that name. I am Nedra here Santa for the BBC now. No you're not now closed. We just close right now just right now when you walked up when we when we heard that your name is lady net we have no lady net rule here at the pageant's according to Washington Post articles young girl. Mrs Ramsay Developed Reputation Listen. It's been a straight Arrow leader who studied hard enjoy performing shoes I like to do drama frequently thought others I high school. Mrs Ramsay discovered her love of of beauty pageants. Excuse me becoming runner up first runner up in the Miss Teenage West Virginia and here we go crazy. She began competing for the ultimate crowd of Miss America a few years later West Virginia University where she belonged to the Alpha Z. Delta Sorority. She stopped thinking of others first and stop talking ugly people altogether. I don't know if that to be true. Actually she was runner up in two preliminary competitions before winning the most Miss West Virginia tidal okay so was West Virginia there we go as a sophomore nineteen seventy seven at the national national pageants. She took home a talent award and two thousand dollars scholarship for younger sister. Pamela was also crowned Miss West Virginia nineteen eighty the pause dominate Nedra his daughters look fucking little lady nets offspring crushing those beauty pageants that was the first time instead of sisters won the state title before that nineteen seventy nine she graduated -aduated with a degree in journalism marketing move to Atlanta where mutual friends quickly introduce dirty John Ramsey and then she would marry him the next year things moved fast passy was a southern southern bell and a socialite made sure that both John Daughters from his first marriage were given lavish birthday parties. She did seem like a good step. Mom come from Gilbert which is pretty damn podunk. She must've loved being a young rich socialite. Living in Hotlanta she became involved in numerous charities like some lady called society. Ta Eh she was also dedicated voluntee- women's Junior League Patricia was also way endure daughters. Pageant career was total pageant mom. It was her thing she loved loved dressing Jon Benet up doing her hair put her clothes hiring coaches talking other pageant moms which again makes me feel like she thought of Jon Benet more is more of a toy doll than daughter. She was living breathing Barbie. She loved her but still weird to me. Neighbor would later recall at one time. Jon Benet came downstairs as Patsy was having a conversation with neighbor another neighbor. The neighbor shocked because Jon benet suddenly had bleached blond hair the last time the neighbor had seen her her hair was clear light brown when this neighbor ask patchy about it she said just from the sun in Michigan. NOPE Patsy was dying or daughter's hair from the time. Johnny was five years old getting that hair dyed blonde. 'cause you gotta be prettier. Who's GonNa love you if you're not pretty nineteen? Ninety-three repassy was diagnosed with ovarian cancer what was in remission by nineteen ninety-five even rich people can get sick sad reminder that you can't get to a place in life where you're just insulated from anything bad happening to you. That's kind of this story to maybe that's another reason the story fascinated and continues to fast indigent republic to remind you that no matter how much Astra kicking a life life can still mother fuck fuck you happy thought my my heck my heck. I apologies for the language and I was quite dark. Now talking about patches I shall jonbenet's older brother Burke Mark Burke Hamilton Ramsey. That's real name Beck Hamilton Ramsey born on January twenty seventh nineteen eighty-seven in Atlanta Georgia some trumpets went off. He's born. I present you Hamilton Ramsey pump Barabara. We don't know a ton about him other than he wasn't cute enough to compete and little boy pageants so mom on probably loved him less. I mean that's how it works right right. I actually do think that he was the least favourite and jealousy may have fueled an accidental murder after childhood of Wealth Burke Ramsey his life starting to chaos for years after his sister's murder partly because at nine he was a murder suspect. The subsequent extensive publicity of his sister's murder was reportedly caddick nightmare burke of course it was. I watched an interview with his dad. John conducted years after Jonbenet's murder where he said that immediately after the murder they pulled burke from school for well made sure to limit his exposure data Paparazzi and just you know socialization general keep away from nosy neighbors prion is tried hard to protect him from the media circus. You know that you quickly enveloped them when they became mm suspects and then the first time you let her go to the grocery store. After his sister's death months later he sees a tabloid cover with his sister's picture on it and a headline accusing him of murdering in her he was devastated of course he was a burks relationship with his sister was less than perfect as many sibling relationships are to be fair he he may He may have had a little more anger towards his little sister than than some big brother's family friend photographer Judith Miller would later say that Patchy told her burke had actually actually struck Jon Benet in the faced with golf club year and a half prior to murder hard enough for her to need stitches. She gives small cosmetic procedure from the plastic surgeon to avoid scarring. Mama can't have a BUFFA Barbie. Doll you gotta get that little face ready for the camera. Who's GonNa Review Birkin? The families that it was an accident. Maybe it was but later patsy would try and change the dates attach. This story saying the burke was five or six years old when he did. It was actually seven so let's just odd detail. Maybe she forgot. Maybe not a big deal or maybe burke you know hated. Sister was getting increasingly increasingly violent towards her dudas Philip Ramsey friend for more than ten years local photographer said this about the golf club incident many years later. I think burke had a bad temper. It's like a chip chip on his shoulder. He had hit Jon Benet before the murder. I would have to say it was probably a year and a half they were playing in the yard and apparently he hit her with the Gulf right here points the area under her eye. She patsy said the kids were playing burke lost his temper and hitter with a golf club. Could he lost his temper again a hitter with something else and killed her nineteen ninety-six and could the family. I believe tried to stage another crime scene or make a different type of crime state crimes to make it look like an intruder did it that is a popular theory also former New York City prosecutor retired. FBI Supervisory Special Agent and profiler Jim Clemente and former new Scotland Yard criminal behavioral analysis Lower Richards who examined the Jon Benet case for two thousand six six teen two thousand sixteen CBS Docu series discovered during their investigation that apparently burke had committed what they called some scatalogical infractions as a child scatalogical infractions meaning that spread feces his own around the ramseys bathroom and even around a Jonbenet's bedroom. Eh drew time or two peanut butter showbiz Hollywood spreading his shit on the walls of sister's room ex. Oh my heck that seems pretty hateful my little sister Donna Nordea shit out of me all the time growing up but never hit in the face with blunt instrument hard enough to send her to the doctor and I definitely didn't literally or didn't smear literal shit on the walls of a room. That's a some next level anger. The same investigators also watched the video burke with therapist shortly after his sister's death and they were bothered by how just a relaxed he was when he was asked if he was worried about a killer her sister's killer specifically coming for him and he wasn't worried at all. He said like I'm just the life he's very calm and you know why would he be worried about a killer coming for him. If he was the killer we'll get ahead of myself. We'll talk about who may have killed Jon Benet and why soon enough enough and in detail overall burks to be pretty well behaved kid when he wasn't whacking system to face with the golf club or wiping his shit on the walls bedroom and now that we know a little bit about the family wait. Let's get into today's timeline starting just a few days before jonbenet's murder right after a word from today's for sponsor. Today's Times is brought to you by by Steph Cox Gurvey's. You might be a killer world tour. Get your tickets now. Steph will be in Santa Fe New Mexico in October thirty seconds the Devils Green Casino and brothel. He'll be in London England on June in forty third Sir Lancelot pub and crematorium. He'll be in Calgary Canada January seventy fifth the well hung Moose Strip clubs massage parlor and he's coming to Las Vegas Nevada on March fortieth back back at the world famous chuckle slut come here the new Steph Cox Curvy material. If your local is your father brother cousin and Grandpa your mom is also your knees and father and you were raised to think safe sex x was when you dug up the body before have been dead for a week you might be a killer and of course coming here some of the classics if Your Dad lack to play baseball with year growing up but your head was the ball and only ever ever got to swing the bat killer. Get your tickets now and of course that is not today sponsor. That's Cox career from the confession. Action can suck no today's time suck is sponsored today by quip my toothbrush buddies friends not friends that sounds better teeth guardians that sounds that sounds best my quip teeth guardians the best way to ease back into a post summer routine simplify the morning and evenings with an electric toothbrush from from quip time sonic vibrations offering effective cleaned is gentle on your sensitive gums and just two minutes twice a day and the multi use cover works as a stand mounts two mirrors putting brushing fresh fresh yeah front every go put. Let's put brushing front and center in your bathroom better yet. Lightweight compact design means you can bring it along with you on on those last summer weekend. getaways and brush heads automatically delivered on a dentist recomended schedule every three months for just five bucks just which my now my quip about a week ago making easy to stay committed your oral health. I love how Mike Quip is no bigger than non battery power toothbrush to that's one of my favorite things it takes up no extra space face this regular toothbrush that will not do nearly as good a job no extra space in my already crowded luggage and it gets chompers so much wider good job equipped scientists. I imagine the scientists have teeth is. Why does their lab coach? I love weapon is perfect getting back into a new clean teeth routine. It's easy to just twenty five bucks and if you go to go to get quip dot com slash time suck right now you can get your first refill pack for free free. That's your first refill pack free at G. E. T. Q. U. I. P. Dot com slash time. Suck get quipped meets axe Lincoln the episode description Tom Himself Timeline right now. Shrapnel on those boots soldier were marching down time soccer time line in December twenty second nineteen ninety-six Jon Benet appeared relaxed beauty pageant and her family put out their annual Christmas letter. It ended with Jon Benet is enjoying her first year in real school kindergarten in the core knowledge program is fast pace and five full days a week doc. She has already been moved ahead to first grade math. She continues to enjoy participating in talent and modeling pageants. She was named America's Royale tiny missed last summer and it's Colorado's little miss this Christmas. Her teacher says she's still going. She'll never have trouble delivering an oral book report Merry Christmas and much love the ramseys earlier. They wrote a less flattering message about their son Burke Christmas letter. Writing Burke is doing very well. He hasn't hit anyone with a golf club all year and he is barely smeared his feces on anything he wiped got a few Jon benet dolls and dollhouse with tiniest bit of poop and may have rubbed a little bit on our pillows around Thanksgiving but that's it. We're super proud of him. I know they had nice things to burqas well. On December twenty third the Ramseys hosted a Christmas party where approximately thirty guests attended including former journalism professor bill mcreynolds who played Santa Claus is poor bastard when Beena suspect and all of this the suspect. I feel these stories for in some ways the next day Christmas Eve was a busy day for the Ramsey Jesus. Well an article appeared in the Boulder Daily Camera regarding the success of the Ramsey Christmas party the day before it's been a slow news day according to various reports Jon Benet played her friend. Dan Meghan Kostanic House that day Ramseys also attended the twilight service that night at Saint John's Episcopal Church in Boulder by nine PM. The kids have been sent to gather gifts that were stashed can hardly used basement room and John Ramsey retrieved a brand new silver girls by extorting neighbor Joe Barnhill garage place under the Christmas tree for Jon Benet then on Christmas Day nineteen ninety-six Jon Benet receiver bike and other guests of course she was pumped and I imagine Patsy you know immediately talked about how she had to be very careful. Always wear a helmet now by elbow pads kneepads risk writing loves God forbid. She crashed and skinny. Give some sort of scar. What will the judges thank? You won't be pretty around noon. Christmas the John left for the airfield to check on one of his planes return between two and three PM around five or six. PM Ramsey's Leifer Christmas party at fleet and Priscilla Whites home home. It was reported that nothing out of the ordinary happened to this party fleet would soon become another suspect in the murder. Many many suspects also has the most stereotypical rich white guy named history fleet white and of course his wife is named Priscilla. A guy named fleet doesn't marry a NEDRA. No Lady neds fro fleet anywhere in the drive home from the party champagne brother Burke fell asleep in the car the Ramsey before heading home dropped gifts offset Stewart Rocky Walker's house and then Glennon Susan Stein's homes so many rich white people stewart and fleet surprised. We haven't met an archibald born arriving home. Jonah put Johnny bed played a game with burke before burke went to bed Jon Benet and as last seen alive around ten PM lane safely asleep in her bed lying save John Apache went to bed would later claim they were never awakened during the night such a nightmare if true the next morning around midnight neighbor Scott Gibbons look kitchen window. It's Ramsey residents observe the upper the kitchen lights were on and dimmed low does mean an intruder was in the house would an intruder turn on the lights if they were. I doubt it it means someone from the Ramsey. Household was still awake. Nobody said they were more likely though so for a snack still wanna down for the day thinking about a cover up a murder a to another neighbor Melody Stan allegedly really here's a scream from within the ramseys home her husband and reportedly here's the sound of metal on concrete sometime after the scream years later melody would backtrack on that statement stating that she actually heard the noise two nights prior. If at all memory such a funny thing seems to be the most reliable right when you're closest to the event time Weiss closer into the incident. You're trying to call recall which just makes sense like if something happened you a few hours ago and you had to give a police report about an hour from now. Don't you think that your report is going to be more accurate accurate then if you had to describe what happened ten years from now that's a big problem with this investigation. People say one thing years later say another yeah we've learned about false memory syndrome multiple times sir on the on the suck memory very very tricky thing things we think can be so real can be completely made up our heads the morning of December twenty six the family gets up at five thirty. Am they were supposed to fly to Charlevoix Michigan for the little family vacation at the one of the other homes while Mr Ramsey shower Mrs Ramsay put back on the same outfit she had on on the night before reapplied or makeup. That's what she say. Find us a bit odd for lady who liked to show how together put together. She was but we're gonNA advocation so maybe she was in vacation. Mode and just didn't care does seem suspicious if you think she could have been one of the ones that did it or did it. I found a few reports said Patsy Ramsey also the second floor of her home to rinse out a pair of Jeans Jumpsuit Pajamas. She apparently soiled the night before then went downstairs to the kitchen to make coffee many have speculated that anger anger over Jon Benet continual bedding led to patches role in an accidental murder and then intentional cover up around five forty five. Am Mrs Ramsay heads downstairs reports finding finding a two and a half page note on a back staircase in the house. Patsy says she only initially read a bit of the notes regime kidnapped with safe and unharmed. The kidnappers wanted one hundred eighteen thousand dollars in cash more this crazy no in a bit upon reading part of that note patsy reportedly immediately screened proceeded to check Japanese Room. She found it to the empty ever hear Mrs Ramsay Scream. Mr Ramsey ran downstairs met Mrs Ramsay in the Stairwell together. They checked on their son who appear to be sleep his room Mr Ramsey then went downstairs to read the ransom note will Mrs Ramsay immediately called Police Patsy dials nine one one at five fifty two a m. She's understandably. Hysterical doesn't answer the operator's raiders questions very well. Here's the short transcript of this nine. One one call patsy Ramsey starts with police. What's going on Ma'am seven five five fifteen th st what's going on there? Ma'am we have a kidnapping hurry. Please explain to me what's going on. Okay there we have there's a note left our daughter's gone a note was left and your daughter's gone yes. How old is your daughter? She six six years old. She's blonde six years old. She just one Colorado Little Miss Christmas on December seventeenth. She got a medal for talent in the Colorado All star Christmas pageant just four days. Please help. We have a Michigan Pageant Day. You have to help me find. We have a hair bleach appointment tomorrow. Aw It's really hard to reschedule with Georgio please. We have rhythm worked over the choreographers meeting at noon to me. Sorry that's progress aggressive but I had to break it up. I knew going in that was tasteless but I felt compelled to continue a I'll show myself out myself out all all paths. He actually said it was six years old. She's blonde back back to the real transcript all right. How long ago was this? I just got the note my daughter's gone. Does it say who took Kerr. What does it say who took her? No I don't know there's there's a ransom note here. It's a ransom note it says sp victory please okay. What's your name? Are you patsy Ramsey. I'm the mother Oh my God please okay. I'm sending an officer over okay please. Do you know how long she's been gone. No I don't please. We just got up. She's not here. Oh my God. Please okay. Please send somebody I am honey. Please take a deep breath. Hurry Hurry Hurry Pazzi. Ah Pazzi Pazzi Pazzi patchy hangs up the phone which many forensic psychologist question when your situation like that when your daughter has just been take it. You don't know who's in the house you other members. Your family are still endanger. The phone is your lifeline to the outside world. Why would you hang it up? However to play devil's advocate everyone handles tragedy and stress differently? If you're panicking who knows what you're GonNa do also we actually had a couple of law enforcement friends about nine one one hangups and they said it happens all the time but check out this very very interesting twists on the hangup patchy puts down the phone because she thinks she's hung up the phone but it didn't hang up all the way the operator can still hear vaguely what's going on. No one is quite sure what happens after this because the tape is very fuzzy but it's been the subject of a lot of investigation by everyone from the FBI to the Secret Service the Boulder Police Department later send this tape to a company called the Aerospace Corporation which then analyzed it was super sophisticated sound enhancement equipment aerospace never releases its findings the Jon Benet case is still open technically in boulder so they still won't release it but the national enquirer supposedly got a hold of this audio footage and leaked it in two thousand and three and I know I I know it's a national enquirer just about the least reliable news alad in the world not quite as bad as the weekly world news entails a Batboy but not good however boulder's olders daily camera also reported on your hands audio right when the enquirer leaked it and reported quote. The general content of the transcript in the supermarket tabloid is accurate according to sources familiar with the investigation so I think it's definitely worth sharing this. Here's a transcript of what may have been said after patsy thought should hung up the phone on Patsy can then be heard Saint Helen. She's helped me Jesus then in the distance. There's another voice thought to be jonbenet's brother Burke. This is very important. This voice has pleased. What do I do and then John Ramsey? We think can be heard saying sharply to were not speaking to you and then Patty says helped me Jesus help me Jesus then she may have also said it's very tricky to properly a decipher this even for the audio experts but she may also said what did you do help me. Jesus seizes then more clearly burke can be heard saying what did you find. This doesn't prove anything about the actual murders but the Ramsey would later tell the police that burke was asleep leap the entire time if they're lying about that why furthermore although the operator couldn't tell what they were saying the time without enhanced audio she would later report port the tone dramatically changed when patsy thought the phone hung up Patsy was no longer hysterically babbling talking quietly while John spoke clearly and deliberately and Burke didn't seem scared or worried in a recent CBS documentary the case of Jon Benet Ramsey does operate says it sounded rehearsed and she wished initial lead investigators had heard her side of the story very interesting before we knew the time this case. Let's look further into this ransom note. It's very ought it may be the most important clue in this whole case for the sake of being thorough but I'm gonna read the whole thing Mr Ramsey listen carefully. We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction what small vaction no party believed for a second. That's true two sentences in and this feels Monica Nigerian e mail scam that does a real ransom note now just like some bullshit like we transfer can much money's into account. Please praise God. I have no time much of due to illness. Bank contact cannot take needed transferred. Could you help out of goodness hearts and give us bank info for us too much funds to you if you could wire just small amount of one thousand dollars. US To us to authorized transfer we feel trust to are you one million dollar knowing you are good person person of God the real note we do respect your business but not the country that it serves at this time. We have your daughter in our possession. She is safe and unharmed and if you want to see her now if you want her to see nineteen ninety-seven you must follow our instructions to the letter you will withdraw one hundred eighteen thousand dollars from your account one hundred a one hundred thousand we'll be in one hundred dollar bills and the remaining eighteen thousand and twenty bills. Make sure that you bring an adequate size attach Jay to the bank when you get home you put the money in a brown paper bag. I will call you between eight and ten. Am Tomorrow to instruct you on delivery the delivery every will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested. If we monitor you getting the money early we might call you early to arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence it's an earlier delivery pickup of your daughter. Any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate execution of your daughter. You will also be denied. Her remains for proper burial. Will the two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you so advise you not to provoke them speaking to anyone about your situation such as the police ace. FBI ET CETERA will result in your daughter being beheaded. If we catch you talking to a stray dog she dies. If you alert bank stories she dies. If the money is in any way marked or tampered with she dies you will be scanned for electronic devices and if any are found she dies author should've led with any of those last reasons skipped the first stray dog part weird tonal shift. I Open a nonsensical bill and then go you know very realistic if we catch you whittling a small tugboat out of Balsa Wood by seashore to carry handwritten note placed in Ziplock Sandwich bag for it not to get wet and put it out to see perhaps one legged pirate to find and try and kill us with cutler sort or antique ship cannon. She dies also don't call police make sure bills or unmarked nothing bigger than a fifty. Don't leave home. 'til all financial arrangements have made or having back to the real not now you can try to deceive us but be warn that we are familiar with law enforcement counter measures and tactics you standing ninety nine percent chance of killing your daughter. If you try to outsmart US follow our instructions and you stand a hundred percent chance of getting her back you and your family are under constant scrutiny as well as the authorities. Don't try to grow a brain John. You're not the only fat c-h-a-d around so don't think that killing will be difficult. Don't underestimate us. John used that good southern common sense of yours is up to you now. John Victory Victory S. B. T. C. Okay many investigators. Go on to claim that the single best piece of evidence that ties Mrs Ramsay to this crime. Is this ransom some note. Mrs Ramsay would flatly deny having anything to do with notes creation. Obviously she would do that whether she was innocent or guilty as far as ransom note go this one is very long very verbose in fact. It's one of the longest random notes in the history of kidnapping cases. It could've been just four sentences. We have the girl withdraw hundred eighteen thousand dollars an unmarked non consequently bills from the bank. Do not alert authorities or the girl dies. We will contact you between eight and ten tomorrow to tell you how to deliver the money to us. Why would someone take that much time? I'm to write out a ransom note in the home of someone whose daughter they just killed and whoever did it wrote it did write it in the Ramsey home. I mean people believe they wrote beforehand and brought it but that would mean they would have had to come in a previous time and take the stationary from patchy is not because the paper for came from the House that's definitive that doesn't seem likely the no was drafted on paper taken from middle of a pad located within the ram home written with a pen found in the Ramsey home the pending the paper abor belonged to patsy additional sheet for missing from the pad and we're never located in the Ramsey home finding there was another page in the pad that had Mr and Mrs I com written on it which may a have been an early false start like start a rough draft of the ransom note based on a CBS documentary recreation of the note it takes twenty one minutes just to copy the the entire note out by hand and you would think it would have taken longer to write it initially because you'd have to think about what you're right. Over twenty minutes is a long time just to chill chill out write a note in an active crime scene when someone could walk up and catch it anytime someone coming in and taking Jon Benet from her bed and as you'll see never leaving the property with her killing her possibly sexually sexually assaulting her then sitting down and writing. This note seems highly unlikely to me now. Let's talk about handwriting analysis during the initial murder investigation in an attempt to determine determine who wrote the note the Boulder Police Department in Boulder County District Attorney's office consulted at least six different handwriting experts all of these experts consulted the original ransom note and compared it to original handwriting samples from both Mr and Mrs Ramsay four of these experts hired by the police to were hired by the ramseys. All six experts agreed that Mr Ramsey could be eliminated as the author of the note the same six consulted experts did not eliminate Mrs Ramsay as the author of the ransom note. Their reaction was mixed on a scale of one to five with five being definitive affinity elimination as the author of the note the expert tire by the ramseys placed Mrs Ramsay overall some routine four and a four point five described the chance of Mrs Ramsay being the author of the note is very very low. The animal analysts hired by murder investigators however think Mrs Ramsay might be the author and recently in Two Thousand Sixteen when a twenty twenty special air twenty years after the murder conditionally analysts Gideon Eptein seen Awang professional handwriting experts who have worked on hundreds of investigations thing that it is highly likely the Mrs Ramsay wrote the ransom note Seena Wong said it's highly probable that she wrote the ransom note if she did right to know does that mean that she killed her daughter know what it means. She has something to do with it. The very least you knew who the fuck did and wasn't her very likely your husband or son also an investigator closely involved with testing of the ransom note said out of the seventy four name aim submitted for testing patsies handwriting was the only one that set off alarm bells a Colorado Bureau of Investigation. CBI report concluded there are indications nations at the author of the Rams Have Noticed Pat Patricia Ramsey but the evidence fall short support that definitive conclusion over one hundred total samples of different people's handwriting were given the law enforcement investigators over the course of Johnny's initial homicide investigation. Every single one were proven is definitively not matching the note except Patty not her handwriting sample was the one and only one this showed a result of inconclusive couple more interesting point you made about to know before you move on and actually really quick before we get to these boats this remembering something. I didn't even put on my notes. the type of pen she used was a specific wasn't ballpoint that apparently makes a little extra hard to get a definitive conclusion so some of the handwriting analysts think that that was what kind of a little bit from being Patricia is that it was just the type of append made certain kinds of brush marks the that make it a little harder to say four shirts this person okay more about the note i John Ramsey was well. No millionaire why the kidnappers ask for one hundred eighteen thousand dollars why not a million the amount of hundred eighteen thousand dollars you know as as we know now that's the amount of his recent bonus and a strange amount mount to ask for not one hundred thousand not a million not a quarter million not even one hundred twenty thousand one hundred and eighteen fishy to me feels contrived also the supposed supposed kidnappers specifically asked Ramsey take money from his account. Why does that matter typically could ever? They don't give a shit. I give the money they'll give trump since how to get it this way to give it to him. Another weird detail according to experts is the way the kidnappers cry themselves who calls themselves a small foreign faction Y- like I said it gives it gives it a whole fucking Nigerian email scam vibe. If this faction was real small. Why would they want you to know they're small make more sense as they want you to think that they're large powerful big now trying to more powerful not less notes kind of sounds like something out of eighties actioner in her nineties action movies like die hard now John Maclean trying to save everyone from a theories efforts of a small foreign faction held destroy America Yippie Kyw foreign faction now back to the time after calling the police at five fifty four? Am Patchy calls family and friends both the White Family John and Barbara Fernie at around six am the world's most Caucasian couple fleet and Priscilla white arrive on the scene. I imagine both of them wearing silk ascot's they'd never seen patsy so hysterical flailing collapsing sobs John Ramsey was known for displaying emotion motion fleet who done a lot of sailing with him of course he had a rough weather had admired his calm even in the worst storms but not John distraught as well around the same time five fifty nine. AM officer Rick French fries in the scene the first of many officers from the Boulder Police Department to respond to the nine one one call he immediately makes a cursory search at the home finds no signs of forced I entry during a search off Rick French goes to the basement comes to door secured by a wooden latch unbeknownst to him. JONBENET's body lied directly behind it. Sadly the French walks away without opening it. If you would have opened it he could have secured a crime scene. Someone could've been arrested not securing the crime really made this one a motherfucker to solve for later investigators a flea white also searching house testified that when you began to search the lights were already on in the basement in the door in the hallway leading to the basement wine cellar room was opened further testified that a window the basement playroom was broken under the broken window. Mr White States there was a suitcase along with a broken shard glass. Now later will be revealed at this window and broken for some time and the suitcase suitcase also been there for some time nothing that had happened the previous night according to John Ramsey. We'll talk about this a little bit more suspicious. Mr White also opened the the door to the wine cellar room but he did not see anything inside because it was dark and he couldn't find light switch between six am and eight am four more officers arrived the Ramsey residents policeman Karl Vich Barry Weiss Viseu Barlow and their supervisor Sergeant Paul Reichenbach zombies parents now have a house full of people besides an increasing number number of officers and family friends there reverend rollover stock from Saint John's Episcopalian Church arrives around seven fifteen a m just before burke is taken to the White House Mary Lou Jets Grace Grace Morlock Boulder. PD victim advocates arrive around six forty five am with bagels and coffee houses now loaded with people people fucking up with their soon gonNA find out an act. It's you know it's fucking crime seats murder crime scene but they don't know that yet at eight ten. AM The first detectives on the case or Linda aren't and detector Fred Patterson who immediately began their investigation nations. Police are notified of the kidnappers plans to call between eight and ten am as per police procedure the ramseys phones are tapped in the calls are monitored but the small foreign faction never calls and and surprisingly enough no one including John and Patricia Patsy ever mention the missing of the kidnappers call window never bring it up a few officers investigators gators in particular detective. Linda aren't notice how strange that is they make note of that they know also the John and patsy barely in the same room together to this day. Detective aren't is convinced convinced that someone in the family probably John Kill Jon Benet round ten thirty a. m. that morning detective art notices that John Ramsey goes missing for at least an hour leaving leaving the house who supposedly pick up the mail later determine this couldn't be true given the family's mail was delivered to a slot in the front door while we lie about that what was he doing moving the body one. PM Detective Linda Aren't tells a resurface John Ramsey that the police conducting full suite with House John Fleet agree to join in will flee white light after John Ramsey moved his computer company from Atlanta Georgia to Boulder Ninety one the whites Ramsey's found that a lot in common flea was also successful. He's a tycoon oil business. Of course he was. If your fleet white you're not cleaning toilets Burger King you make an oil money manse good name solid rich name name both my kids Fleet White Change Qatar's Tamed Fleet White comments and encouraging to where Ascot's Change Monroe's name to fleet or white coming or maybe fleetest the fleas white she wore mink coats even in the summer a lot of pearls diamonds long so gloves father. What's for dinner caviar fleet? You know that's Mondays Caveat Nights Mondays caviar Tuesday's Tuesday's lobster Wednesday at stake and the rest of the week. It's whatever gets floor in fresh from pre dinner would be seven plates of gold and the food will be chewed by servants then spit into Jio mouse. I boy flee my data fleetest that going to chew their food. Xm Kevin Peasants Five PM detective detective art begins to lead officers on a thorough search the house from top to bottom John Grabs fleet heads to the basement again and that's when John Find Johnny's body according to forensics expert Ron Walker who worked for the Boulder PD the time whenever a murder is staged the perpetrator will deliberately take a family friend or neighbor to the body so that the other person can witness their shock and distressed their surprise upon the side of his daughter. John Smothers her cries out covers blanket takes Jonbenet's body upstairs effectively completely destroying the the crime scene. Now I do realize that might have been a natural reaction. Some of my you know my react to react that way up. I might not care at all about protocol might have been killed but if I'm very strange about all all this is that it took the ramseys over seven fucking hours to find her body was in the House the whole time think about that over seven hours. If one of my kids as was missing ransom note or not I would think I would tear the house apart looking for them and she wasn't hidden. She was laying on the floor in the basement of all the fleet or just turn on the light earlier her open the door right there. She wasn't hidden under anything. The family was now looking in the world you know for in fact they believed they believed the ransom some notes author. We're supposed to wait at home so if you're supposed to be home anyway anything you know you're supposed to waiting by the phone or at least you'll be able to grab the phone cookie when they call. Why would you at the very least it's not look everywhere in your home the nine eleven or nine one one call was placed at five fifty two? AM They can't over seven hours and they don't look in every room in the house what the fuck that really it makes no sense to me at all five minutes later at one ten PM detective art moves the Body a second time into a different room further muddies the evidence people could teach us about her for a long time as well okay now. Let's push pause time. Let's look at the crime scene a little bit polo job as mouth's was covered in duct tape nylon cord connected to a crude grat was was found around her wrists and neck and torso is covered by white blanket so sad I mean she just celebrate a dream Christmas and imagine now she's dead just got an I bike now this very strangely. She wasn't wearing the clothes her parents said she had on when she went to bed the night before so apparently she'd been redressed after her murder. John Apache told investigators that she was wearing a red turtleneck pajama jam atop when you put her to bed she was found in white. One Red Turtleneck was in the bathroom sink found according to John fully clothed covered by one of her blankets very unusual especially considering that her autopsy would later conclude that you may have been sexually assaulted before her death say mates this. You'll see thing it's so muddy here real quick. you know that detail would seem to make the whole thing stranger like what what kind of intruder sexually assaults kills a child and carefully puts clothes back on them fresh close then to take the basement careful as everybody in the ground and then sits down rights at a long rambling ransom note then leaves and doesn't ever call about the ransom money. It's all very odd making all weird or the ligature is around her neck and right wrist word investigators say very loose consistent with staging a crime the not used on the crude garage made from patsies own paintbrush to choke the Child L. D. death were quite intricate. Also unusual dirtbags you look into sexually assaulted a child strangle. Don't usually take the time to make a nice fancy. Not You don't know how can be real honest moreover there are no signs of forcible entry and more importantly no footprints in the melting snow around the house this makes an intruder breaking breaking in that much more unlikely Greg McCreery former. FBI agent and adjunct forensic psychology professor at Nova Southeastern University in Fort Lauderdale contributing author to the nineteen ninety-two crime classification manual do know some shit about crime as a pedophile and ransom kidnappers never overlap. He says bedfellows grab the child molested and discard them. Random kidnappers are in it strictly for the money what the fuck is going on with this crime. Although the corner did not specify the exact time of death there was a neighbor who told police that she'd been wakened shortly after midnight. Remember that loud person scream other Ramsey's tell police they heard nothing. They heard nothing then the boulder. PD makes a huge mistake. They would later admit it they didn't separate the witnesses the RAMSEYS and didn't get their statements had they done that. They might all case you know instead they potentially they gave the murderer or murderers months and months to come up with a plausible denial good plan hire the right lawyers in the basement where Jon Benet was found again. A window was broken. There was a suitcase case. I don't need to like we said friends is on the same thought that if a perpetrator entered the house you know maybe he would GonNa use this suitcase to get out the window. especially the suitcase had an an unidentified footprint on it but John Ramsey later told investigators he had broken window to get into the house when he locked himself out a few months before his weird that he didn't have someone Oh and fix the window right. They were loaded this busted months ago. Why didn't why didn't you have some come fix? It seems like a beat someone on the priority now let people speak in your basement. There's was a sizable cobweb. Also this is a big thing about the intruder intruder theory sizable cobweb on the window still there when police initially investigated it's if a perpetrator at slipped through the window yeah no not disturb this giant cobweb which would have been virtually impossible also the complexity and size the web was such that it couldn't have been new. Do it looked like it had been for quite some time between one twenty one thirty PM still in December Twenty six boulder policemen Ron Walker police officers Ron Walker Larry Mason arrive and searched the basement wine cellar for further clues they finally secure the home preventing further arrivals and contamination but the damage already been done one forty pm John Ramsey he calls his pilot allegedly is heard asking him to prepare a plane to Atlanta. The law enforcement instructs the family not to leave town five minutes later he'd in the officers warning the ramseys leave their house with plans plans to stay the night at Bernie's home at two thirty pm that day police conduct an interview with jonbenet's brother Burke which reveals the nine year old allegedly slept to the events of the previous night but what about that enhanced audio from the nine one one call now some point after this his father's advice to procure an attorney he does hires a friend named Mike Bynum the following following Dana Topsy of Japanese bodies conducted on December twenty seven by the Boulder County Coroner's office. Let's examine what they found out. The cause of Jonbenet's death was ruled as fix ya by strangulation associated with cranial cerebral trauma. The autopsy report supports the conclusion that she was alive before she was fixated by strangulation relation and that she fought her attacker in some manner evidence gathered during the autopsy was consistent with the inference that she struggled to remove a grat from her neck. The autopsy report reveals injury jonbenet's Genitalia consistent with a sexual assault shortly before her death although head we'll see that's going to be challenging but although no head injury was visible when she was first discovered the autopsy also revealed received she'd received a severe blow to her head shortly before where around the time for Murder Order forensic pathologist believes she was alive when she was struck on the head in alive when the garage was applied the scalp hemorrhage ran from the right eyebrow to the back of the head the correspondent skull fracture was eight and a half inches long with a small displaced fragment of bone. She had a subdural hemorrhage beneath the school. Although the head wound was a fatal type injury three Particu hemorrhaging of the is indicated that Jon Benet was alive at the time of her strangulation possibly brain dead or about to die but technically we still alive at that time the bleeding Jon benet Genitalia area also indicated. She was alive when she was assaulted. If she was assaulted her hymen was torn and material consistent with wouldn't charge from the paintbrush choose to make the Garrett found in her vagina the at such a strange wrinkled all this you know no evidence suggests that she was the victim of chronic sexual abuse which I would think would be the case of one of her parents assaulter however you know she was sexually assaulted by famous. I you know it could have been the first time as always has to be a first time on a possible. did John or Patsy or maybe even burke began to assault her. Kids are curious. Sometimes they do act out sexually another kids. That doesn't not happen. Did that begin to happen then. She tried to get them stopped. Often things escalated from there maybe again it's such a confusing crime and check this out. Mark Becker the man who is the boulder police chief during jonbenet's murder investigation Asian did read it. Ask Me anything in two thousand fifteen. This is what he said we know from the evidence. She was hit in the head very hard with an unknown object. Possibly a flashlight or similar type vitam the blow knocked her deep into the blow knocked her into deep unconsciousness which could have led some to believe she was dead. The strangulation came forty five five minutes to two hours after the head strike based on the swelling on the brain while the head wound would have eventually killed her. The strangulation actually did kill her. The rest of the scene we believe was staged this import the rest of the scene we believe was staged including the vaginal trauma to make it look like a kidnapping assault gone bat right and again that was a Reddit Ama response from mark back near the Guy who's the boulder police chief during jumping as murder investigation a guy who didn't understand what an AMA was and didn't realize that everyone would be able to find out what he said and felt bad about disclose all of that later I mean I mean the PD they I thought this was all staged. Vaginal trauma they fucked up is that I mean think about that means. You know that means that you know. Let's say burke master in the head on accident Donna Patsy. I think she's already dead or is GONNA be dead. One of them strangles her puts. A paintbrush entertainment and their daughters are John. It's making look like she'd been sexually assaulted. How incredibly dark doc is that possibility? I mean I don't know what else you're supposed to infer from this as as when when they say that must have been staged. How could you put a paintbrush Russian? You're dead daughters vagina to cover up accidentally killing her corner took nail clipping from Jon Benet male. DNA was found under Jon Benet as right hand and female that does not match any of the Ramsey's addition male. DNA was found in Jonbenet's underwear did not match any of the Ramseys man DNA analysis will further muddy this shit up over the years as you will soon see finally the coroner's report notes injuries on the right side of Jon Benet facing left lower back. All defenders assert that these injuries are consistent with the use of a stun gun plaintiff notes from the investigation no that the coroner's report does not expressly state the injuries were the result of such instrument over Dr Michael Dourson forensic pathologist colleges retained by the Ramseys who examined the boulder corners autopsy report an autopsy photos concludes that the injuries to the right side of the face as well as the lower left back are patterned and injuries most consistent with the application of a stun gun in the sound this part of the intruder hypothe- some some creep came in there and started with a stun gun then did what he did. There's also a flashlight photograph sitting on the ramseys kitchen table that fit John as rectangular headwind fracture exactly some later point to this as the head trauma weapon air something else to think about why would a kidnapper strangled at the child who who's already already suffered deadly head trauma of a family member hit in the head why would they we also strangle her or make. She was strangled. If it really was an accident why couldn't you just be honest. Burke was nine if he accidentally killed a sister would really get now a trouble. I doubt it now with attorneys you the ones the family could afford told you in the more you look into this more confused should gets. Dan Lewis a free to clear my head Troth now. Let's make even more confusing. The autopsy also reveal vessel fruit material which may represent pineapple was Jon Benet had eaten a few hours before her death photographs of the home. Take on the day when Jonbenet's body were found do do show a bowl of pineapple pieces in milk on the kitchen table with a spoon however both John and Patsy said they did not remember putting the ball on the table or forever feeding the pineapple did Jon Benet the flips this fruit someone she knew sneak in wake her up take her to the kitchen for midnight snack. Would someone ever do that knowing that any time the parents could come downstairs and catch him. Please reported that they found Japanese nine year old brother Burke fingerprints on the bowl burke. You know help a little snack and then something happened after that. The ramseys have always maintained the burks led to the entire episode until he was awakened several hours after the police have arrived like the phone call Danielle makes it seem like this is not true. Why are they lying about burke? Why this seems to be a lot of lies around burke again at Burke kilter would nine year old follow up with a headwind was strangulation? I I don't think acute done that doesn't make sense to me. December thirtieth please take blood and hair samples from John Ramsey other members of the family John Andrew Ramsay and Belinda Ramsey Jon Benet adult half siblings were Georgia on the day of the murder or immediately limited suspects December thirty first six year old jonbenet buried at Saint James Episcopal Cemetery in Marietta Georgia the family including John and patsy allowed to travel to Atlanta for the funeral tragic less than a week if they were all celebrating Christmas the following day New Year's Day January I nineteen ninety-seven John and Patsy Ramsey and extensive interview to CNN which Patsy Ramsey proclaims there is a killer on the loose. John Ramsey calls the idea that he or other members of his family could've committed the crime nauseating beyond belief. This interview was done before the Boulder. Police could officially interview the two alone and the boulder police are beginning to further suspect the ramseys Ramsey's had something to do with this murder. Five detectives fly from Boulder to Atlanta to interview them now. Let's look at the CNN interview more. It didn't did not do them any favors with the court. Public opinion in one part of this National Interview Patsy Ramsey says we have to find out who did this. John Ramsey ads not because we're angry but we have to go on not the angry but what's your daughter was sexually assaulted and murdered in your home fucking week ago and you're not angry you robot you sociopaths. Does your best incapable of emotion like more. CEO's are sociopaths than the average person within a long time ago in sucked number four just very weird does not it's not a good look. The ramseys are asked. Are you fully convinced your daughter was kidnapped. Patsy starts to shake her head no and then John Jacobs had yes. She starts nodding yes as well then and then she says I it's. It's just hard to know but we are on our families loving family. It's a gentle family. Why would John You know give a yes answer? Do you know she wasn't kidnapped found her body in the home the concert by six. Am No kidnapper snug her body in his law enforcement continued to arrive and wha- what some can never snuck her in you know sometime after or snuck in sometime after ten pm got her out then brought her back. If what makes sense he wasn't kidnapped on January third Jonah Patsy Return Arne Colorado to jonbenet's funeral February thirteenth ninety-seven Boulder police chief. Tom Koby Bolder Boulder County district attorney Alex Hunter hold all the news conference where they vowed to kill will be brought to justice. Da Hunter that announces the formation as different please. You've mentioned earlier it. Was You know those along investigation ended up being several police chiefs part of it d hunter then announces the formation of an Expert Prosecution Task Force including Forensic Expert Henry Lee DNA expert Berry Shack back both Leeann check were part of the Oj Simpson defense team and the media aides issued up cases a subject of immense media coverage. The general consensus seems to be believed that the ramseys did it Jon Benet. Pageant experience seems to have been a major factor in coming to that belief media puns in the general public alike finding pageant lifestyle awed. Obviously I can't blame them. I mean let's say the Ramsey had nothing to do with her daughter's death and she was killed by some random pedophile tunnel a ton of articles about the case that I've read indicates that a lot of people thought that at the very lease dressing her up like they did turned her into a magnet for paedophiles turned like Pedo Bait and I don't totally disagree. I mean you sexualize your kid. I mean you. Are you know making them. More noticeable to fucking people are actually attracted to kids to someone who knew I heard from pageant world killer. That's another possibility that goes with the intruder theories March thirteenth ninety-seven veteran homicide detective loose smit joins the Ramsey murder investigation. Smith was a retired investigator from El Paso County best known for cracking the murder case of Heather Dawn Church in Colorado Springs headed down was not affected church. She was a thirteen year old girl killed by Derby named Robert Charles Brown a guy who like Otis tool and Henry Lucas ended up confessing to a whole bunch of other murders may or may not have committed African arrested April third nineteen ninety-seven. DNA testing begins at cellmark diagnostics labs Maryland this was the second round of DNA testing. The Jon Benet case initial round was conducted the Colorado Bureau Investigation Labs just two weeks later D. A. Alex Hunter for the first time publicly identified John and Patsy Ramsey is the primary focus of their investigation. Gosh Dang g workers to salad slipping. Get a neighbor twenty seven ninety six the ramseys funded newspaper AD offering a heart thousand dollar reward for Info about jonbenet's killer three days later April thirtieth the police conducted inducted long-awaited formal interviews with John and Patsy Ramsey more than four months at the Jon Benet found murdered not good patsies interrogated for six and a half hours johnny question. We're just two hours at the end. The police released no statement regarding the contents of those interviews. May I ninety seven John Patsy Ramsey in a rare interview with reporters declare their innocence. I I did not kill my daughter. John Ramsey States patsy says let me assure you that I did not kill Jon Benet on May Thirteenth Ninety seven. I detective to arrive at at the murder scene. Linda art aren't is dropped from the case. Why selena claims she was fired for criticizing her superiors for their handling of this case her superiors were say we'll say she was removed because she bungled the case on August fourteenth ninety-seven Jon Benet grisly autopsy details are released to the public on January Fifteenth Nineteen Ninety eight Jonah Patsy Ramsey refused to submit to another round of interviews unless they can review the evidence first a condition unacceptable to police to refuse does seem weird the whole refusing to come in and do the interviews does seem weird to me? It's never properly explained. Some sources say the boulder. PD bossy interviews not not demanding the them immediately because John was rich bigwigs. Local businessmen was military contractor die. Some sources seem to think that this is just what happens to give lots of money can hire good lawyers to do everything in their legal power to make it hard for police to investigate you. I do think if they were for sure innocent. Why not cooperate more police but again? If you have a lawyer reminding you that innocent people can do go to jail horrible crimes all the time even murder I also see whiteness and person would not cooperate January Sixteenth Governor Roy Romer Romer Roy Romer rejects request by two friends of the Ramsey family to appoint a special prosecutor in the murder case little bit of conflict of interest. They're your friend is suspected of murder and now you're gonNA try and get a prosecutor you like attached to the case January twenty nine ninety eight more than a year after Dada was murdered the ramseys turnover to police the clothing they were wearing the night. Johnny was found dead that that is so ridiculous to me which which I understood legal protocol more here. Why didn't they get too close week one? What is the point of getting them over a year later? I mean you can see what kind of detergent they've been using also. Wouldn't it be very easy just to buy new versions of the clothing you're wearing then. Give that to the police. I mean how the fuck with another difference a March twelve ninety eight at looking for the killer of jonbenet for fifty fifteen months police say the best bet for solving the murder a grand jury investigation and formerly called for such a probe after conferring with District Attorney Alex Hunter so what is a grand jury investigating. I've always been a little confused by that. I know we mentioned grand jury investigations of the Black Dahlia Suck. They were used to investigate. LAPD corruption also try and bring Dolly is suspect to trial but I never explained what a grand jury investigation is. It's pretty unique. According to wikipedia which provides you know provided the the best most understandable lame speak type definition. I could find a better than the legal sites found a grand jury is well a jury a group of citizens sends empowered by local bylaw to conduct legal proceedings and investigate potential criminal conduct and determine whether criminal charges should be brought a grand jury he may subpoena physical evidence of or a person to testify a grand jury is separate from the courts which do not preside over its functioning Liberia and the United States are the only two countries in the world that use grand juries like this type of trial basically the determines. If you're going to have a criminal trial unlike a regular trial there's no defense with a grand jury investigation only the prosecution trying to convince the jury that someone should be prosecuted at a criminal trial and when and why are these grand juries used without without you know hijacking this timeline further into an explanation of our entire criminal court system the simplest answer I've found is grand. Juries are used when the prosecution does not have enough evidence evidence to convince a judge that subject should be held to answer for crime so the Jon Benet case what happened was the boulder police department is having a hard time figuring out how to charge Jon Benet parents with her murder lot of members of the BP did they think that John and patsy maybe burke either. Did it has something to do with it but they just don't have enough evidence to get a judge to sign off on indictment so they decided to try for a grand jury hope they can convince them that. There's no evidence enough circumstantial evidence to bring them to trial. I think it's about as good as I can. Explain it. hopefully I got that right. Make things more complicated while most of the boulder. PD convince the RAMSEYS GUILT THEY WANNA call for grander investigation the DA's office does not think the RAMSEYS are involved. This was a big complicated part of this case the Boulder Police Department seem to consistently believe it was the Ramseys the district attorney's office seemed to consistently believed the intruder theory in May nineteen ninety eight loose-knit the detective hired by the DA's office presents his findings and bpd with other staff members of the DA's office concluding the that the evidence pointed away from the Ramseys however smitten his team were unable to successfully challenged enough members of the EP who did believe the Ramseys were guilty the DA's office ought to take control investigation due to animosity between the police and the DA's the office and the pressure to obtain a conviction Colorado Governor Roy Romer steps in names Michael Caine a special prosecutor to initiate a grand jury two of the lead investors in the the case had opposing views Smith and Steve Thomas Resign smid because he believes that the investigation headed incompetently overlooked the intruder is Thomas because the DA's office had interfered with and failed to support the police investigation of the case pointed that the Ramseys Steve Thomas resigned with the well publicized letter which said attempts to gather evidence for met with refusals and instead it was suggested that we ask permission from the ramseys before proceeding he thought the Ramseys had intimidated the DA's office office as the feud with the DA's office escalated the Boulder police accepted the aid of a Dream Team of three attorneys who offer to provide pro bono counsel in the case curiously one of the attorneys had served as outside cancel council. Excuse me to Lockheed Martin and several cases the second belong to affirm that also represented that accompany the third had been co-counsel with how hadn't John Ramsey's criminal attorney Carney in another matter right a little fishy who'd want the case too late various entities connected to the case had strong reasons for delaying a grand jury Investigation District Attorney Hunter whose office rarely went to trial and homicide cases was just one was not his comfort zone. This guy was not well liked at all by boulder. PD They seem to think he was pretty weak. Willed willed weak-minded Lockheed Martin. One of the largest employers would want to try delayed as well right this company's been trying to sell access graphics for awhile now to General Electric. You know any risks that the company's top executive would be facing possible indictment would not have helped the development plans all is now you have lawyers representing John Ramsey. WHO's employers can lose a lot of money if he's found guilty daughter? The trials delayed the delay was no damaging to the investigation further on several fronts leaks proliferated witnesses altered or stories stories or sold them to tabloids just keeps getting Messier on June twenty-fourth Nineteen Ninety eight John and Patsy Ramsey returned to Colorado interrogation by district attorney's investigators a reportedly questioned together and separately for the first time the prosecution conducts an extensive interview now with their son Burke who's eleven over a year and a half after Jon Benet died August August six hundred seventy eight in a sting eight-page resignation letter an angry detective Steve Thomas. One of the lead investigators says District Attorney Hunters Office is thoroughly compromised and that they've tripled the case. Thomas charged that critical evidence had been collected and maintained that other evidence wasn't even tested Colorado Governor Ray Rohner then asked four boulder the area. Da's whether or not he should intervene further in the case. It's huge mess August twelfth. Governor Romer says he wants to help the DA further now removing from the case he invokes a state statute that allows for special deputies Japanese to assist the DA cases headed for Grand Jury on August twentieth source until the Denver Post an enhanced version the nine one one call Patsy Ramsey made of the morning she found the ranch note includes includes burks voice. We talked about that. A grand jury convenes beginning September Fifteenth Nineteen Ninety eight to consider indicting the Ramseys for charges relating to the case five five months after they were chosen Boulder County grand juries beginner investigation then investigator loose Smith and resigns Santa Thorns. These are folks who have Leeann Jonbenet's parents his resignation letter. Liu says the RAMSEYS did not kill her daughter and a very dangerous killer is still out there October Thirteenth Thirteenth Nineteen Ninety eight grand jury begins here in forensic evidence including analysis of handwriting. DNA inherent fibers found at the scene seven days later on October twentieth. John Ramsey returns is to Colorado for deposition in civil case filed against him in the national enquirer by photographer Steven Miles who's a neighbor of the ramseys and one national enquirer article a statement attributed to John Ramsay speculates that the real murder was an intruder most likely a pedophile. We plan to suggest it was a neighbor Stephen Miles. John's attorney will argue the John said no such thing ninety nine the grand jury returned a true bill to charge the Ramseys with placing the child at risk in a way that led to her death and with obstructing the investigation of murder. This is an easier easier indictments than outright murder requires a lower burden of proof but Boulder County district attorney Alex Hunter does not prosecute. He believes he still doesn't have enough of evidence to prove them guilty beyond reasonable doubt in court something the Ramseys have literally paid. Da Hunter off the sniping fingerpointing between Boulder PD the dish attorney's Attorney's office intensifies some prosecutors believe detective too fixated on the parents as suspects failed to adequately explore other leads cops accused of being too chummy. You're intimidated by the Ramsey legal team after more than a year of hearings the proceedings have accomplished absolutely fucking nothing they look to be over on February Eighteenth Nineteen Ninety nine Lawrence Schiller's book perfect murder perfect town offers new insight and details into the investigation. This book describes the feud between police and prosecutors on April eight nine six months extension of the grand jury investigations granted proceedings seatings not over. They've decided to keep trying on May nineteenth ninety nine Birkenau twelve secretly questioned by the grand jury the next day boulder authorities publicly confirm arm. He's not a suspect but is witness. Fuck what a witness. What did he see the September thirteen ninety nine former detective? Linda aren't one of the first detectives on the Crime Crime Scene The day Jonbenet's body was found who by this time has resigned from the bpd appears on Good Morning America claiming she knows what happened. The Night Jonbenet was killed in a five five-part interview. She says she knows who killed a girl but will not reveal the name but he kind of does she makes I watched it. She makes it very clear without saying his name that she thinks that John Ramsey the father. I sure did it September twenty third nineteen ninety nine after a almost four months off the grand jury returns to Work October Thirteenth Ninety nine Alex announces after the grand jury has completed its work that his team still does not think they have sufficient evidence to warrant filing charges over three years later Mary lacy the next Boulder County district attorney takes over the investigation from the police on the six year anniversary of Jonbenet's death December twenty six two thousand and two in April two thousand three Lacey States Jonbenet's killing is more consistent with the theory that intruder murder Jon Benet then it was with the theory that Mrs Ramsay did back and forth it goes December two thousand three. DNA results muddy everything further forensic investigators extract enough enough material from a mixed blood sample found jonbenet's underwear underwear to establish the DNA profile that DNA belongs to an unknown male person investigators obviously hope that this is a big break in solving the case DNA was submitted to the F. B. is combined DNA index system database containing more than one point six million profiles doesn't you'll to match fast forward a couple of years later June twenty four two thousand six Patsy Ramsey dies after battling ovarian cancer off and on for more than a decade August fifteenth two thousand six John Mark John Mark Car a forty-one-year-old elementary school teacher confesses that he accidentally killed Jon Benet while attempting having to sexually assault her he's arrested in Thailand for a brief moment. It looks like Jonbenet's killer has been found nope the case against car collapses later that August. DNA NATE test results eliminate him as a suspect also he wasn't in boulder at the time of the murder more on this fucking nut job a little bit later July nine two thousand eight arm with new DNA evidence that points to an unknown male zombies killer Boulder County District Attorney Mary Lacy Public publicly exonerates the child's parents and immediate family in a letter hand delivered to John Ramsey. Lacey says she is confident that a touch DNA analysis done by private lab has determined the genetic material left on the way spend long Johns Jonbenet was wearing when her body was found matches. The DNA left in her underwear in the DNA blogs to an unknown suspect with no strong suspects remaining the case goes cold and October two thousand ten two cases reopened new interviews are conducted following a fresh inquiry by committee that included state and federal investigators gators police are expected to use more Jews newer. DNA technology this investigation there was no new information gleaned from those interviews according to ABC News it was reported in September temperature thousand sixteen to the investigation and Janis deaths continued to be an active homicide case for Boulder Police Chief Greg Testa September two thousand sixteen ECKSTEEN TV programs from a any Dr Phil dayline NBC CBS News Airs Jon Benet Specials in advance. The twentieth anniversary of Murder Boulder police chief Greg Testa says timber. I videotape statement that he won't do interviews about the case to maintain the investigations integrity he points out the department is processed. Fifteen hundred pieces of evidence has taken two hundred. DNA samples interviewed more than one thousand people in eight states investigated more than twenty thousand tips. NOT GONNA do any more interviews in October of two thousand sixteen eighteen forensic expert to examine the DNA test of tained exclusively by the daily camera and nine news dispute former Da. Mary Lacy's conclusion the DNA DNA profile found in one place on Giannis underpants and two locations that are long johns was the killers. This is where the fucking DNA thing is so crazy. The experts say the evidence showed the DNA samples came from at least two people in addition Jon Benet something Lacey's office was told but did she didn't mention when she cleared the ramseys and the experts also said that these DNA samples were of the kind that likely could have come from a long John Factory factory worker Sneeze Datta dammit right many female field that the Ramsey should have never been exonerated based on DNA testing right the results were misinterpreted looks like the DNA tests had nothing to do with the murder December thirteen thousand thousand sixteen boulder police and prosecutors plan a new round of DNA test that yield Jack Shit to this date. There are no new leads. The case remains remains unsolved variously analysts. Do all agree that the case will in all likelihood forever remain unsolved over still gonNA look at some suspects. Let's bounce the timeline to do exactly that good job soldier made it back when it comes to suspects there is as you know two main groups family intruders. We're GONNA look at both afterward. After a word from a final sponsor time suck is brought to you today by Boulder private investigators staffed only by former investigators who worked on the Jon Benet Ramsey Ramsey case. VPI specializes in taking your hard to solve case and continuing to never fucking solve it ever plenty of firms to get you answers. That's easy. BP I get it's you so many questions always questions and answers or your money back. Do you want Constan disagreement between investigators and friend GAFFER'S THE DA's office. Do you want to drag a case out indefinitely continue to add theories until even cares you did it anymore. Everyone wants to put the whole thing behind them. Do you want to really start to nail down a suspect and then go full jake their mind and start over over from scratch. Do you want to pay a lot of people a lot of money to look really busy but actually accomplish exactly nothing call. They're the best in the game and taking your case seriously seriously seriously never ever fucking solving it and of course sponsored out real time today by movement whether you're at the office onto your phone or unwinding from a long day movements ever scroll blue light filtering glasses. Have you covered. I'm wearing them right now. Right now. Do Youtube watchers. There's they're built to protect your eyes from blue light this because I strain discomfort excuse me poor sleeping patterns and every school blue light filtering glasses started just sixty five bucks. I've got a mild prescription for glass over a year ago because I strain was killing me and then I got these movement blue blockers no prescription and I wear the more than and prescription glasses now they do more to reduce ice train for me than slight magnification any future prescription lenses. I get our for sure going to have this. you know blue light light filter and look cool. I think they make me look smarter. Maybe younger wear them. They don't look like other computer glassy out there right. He's oranges regular glasses lasts. No Yellow Tint lenses like find other blue light blockers right none of them none of those door glasses pick from round frames clear frames colored frames etc movements elections actions always expanding with new traditional and fashion forward styles to choose from get fifteen percent off today with free shipping free returns by going to movement dot com slash time time suck. That's M. V. M. T. dot com slash time suck shop movement ever scroll blue light filtering glasses protect. Your eyes look great doing it. Movement DOT com slash last time I joined the movement Lincoln the description now. Let's look at some theories. Let's start with the intruder theory this just in general before we look at individual intruder possibilities abilities. The intruder theory goes something like this. Somebody was able to survey the family find a time when they weren't in the house. Get into the house when everyone to sleep they wrote a ransom letter took Jon Benet possibly using a stun gun to do her then took her down to the basement tighter up kilter still left the ransom note saying she was safe then they left through the window without disturbing a huge Wjr cobweb then never contacted anyone about the ransom. So you know makes a lot of sense this is the theory that loose Smith Vice One of the homicide detectives was hired by District Attorney Alex Hunter early investigation. He believes it's mostly because Jon Benet might have been sexually assaulted and dismiss Iraq irrevocably Gosh points to someone what else I the house but she might not have been sexually assaulted. There was no evidence of conventional rape. Although sexual assault could not be ruled out although seem was found there was evidence that there have been vaginal injury and the time the autopsied appeared vaginal area white cloth however fuck this is so confusing this case so my mother Dr Richard Krugman a specialist and child abuse brought in as a consultant by one hundred office says that there was a vaginal abrasion which is quote a sign of trauma not a sign of sexual abuse necessarily manning she could have fallen down could ran into something you know her. hothead brother could've kicked her in the in the junk. She might not have been sexually assaulted or maybe she was Dr. Cyril Wecht a well known forensic. Pathologist has no doubt that the forty five pound child had been molested saying if she had been taken to a hospital emergency room doctors had seen the general evidence evidence her father would have been arrested right fine. No one can agree on anything called. VPI The vaginal opening according to Dr Robert Kirshner of the University of Chicago's Pathology Department was twice the normal size for six year olds the genital injuries indicate penetration he says but probably not by peanuts and are evidence of molestation that night as well as previous molestation yeah. I'm not a doctor but it seems like Dr Cursor is reading a lot into vaginal opening especially since other doctors are divided on what happened there was also blood and urine stains on her underpants a considerable obstacle to the investigators according to one well play source and the DA's office was the fact that the crime scene in the body had had been cleaned up. Maybe that's what John Ramsey was doing. He was missing for an hour. Another piece of evidence pointing to an intruder is that there had been more than one hundred burglaries and the Ramsey's neighborhood in the months before John. Somebody's murder also there were thirty eight registered sex offenders living within a two mile radius of the Ramsey home crepes. Don't just live in neighborhoods like missing fingernails. They also also live in New Orleans. Living near neighborhoods like Chappaqua now. Let's look at one of these sex offenders and a few other suspects relating to the intruder theory one of the individuals that veteran homicide aside detector loose-knit identified as a suspect under his intruder theory Gary Howard Aletha or Allah who was arrested for two counts of attempted sexual sexual exploitation of a child and one count of Sexual Exploitation of exploitation of a child on June two thousand sixteen so it's the same charges whatever the house written this con- convicted pedophile have been living in the area on and off when police allegedly found a magazine cut out of Jon Benet Ramsey his back back after he was apprehended on drug charges in two thousand incre- he was soon released but suspicion remained. DNA DNA testing for the Damer cleared him but we know all the fucking problems the DNA testing he was charged with two counts of sexual exploitation of a child for possessing child pornography and check this out justice summer. This motherfucker currently imprisoned but due for parole next year allegedly allegedly confessed to accidentally killing the six year old in a series of letters sent to a former high school classmate. I never loved anyone like I did Jon Benet and yet I let her slip flip in her head bashed in half and I watched her die Aleve a wrote in a letter to his former classmate Michael Vale. It was an accident. Please believe me she was not like the other kids so creepy. Now like the other kids Google image search this living heard in human costume and he looks exactly like the kind of guy who writes that letter why did so many pedophile have long wispy hair and fucking mustaches. He looked so creepy that if you were a parent and you're willing to let this motherfucker watch your kids and that he then molested him the police should arrest you and the pedophile steady both the prison would you in for letting fuck Gary Wash my eight year old sounds fair and other letter to Vail deliver wrote or Gary Rhodes Net last names Jon Benet completely changed me and removed all evil from me just one look at her beautiful face for beautiful glowing skin and her her divine God body. I realized I was wrong to kill the kids yet by accident. She died. It was my fault her divine God body Jesus. That's why you don't put what sex sex up costumes fucking prayed around a catwalk because of the Gary of the world. That's it rose only wearing garbage bags starting tomorrow better yet you'll be garbage can like Oscar the grouch and Fridays loosen it up. She does the summer she won't have to. You know we're snowboots. Vaile said he suspected his old High School Buddy for twenty two years of killing Jon Benet ever since he received as a serving call from Gary shortly after the murder and before the case made national headlines Vail who lives in Ventura California until the Daily Mail my suspicions began when Gary called me late at night on December twenty six nineteen ninety-six he was sobbing and said I heard a little girl. I tried to get get more information out of him the only other thing he told me that he was in Boulder Colorado on December twenty seven to read the front page in my local newspaper girl six lane in Boulder Colorado. I immediately called the boulder older. PD told them what I knew about Gary and what he told me days earlier they didn't get back to me three months later. I called the police again to find out what was going on the investigation and Gary but instead I was sent to police answering Sandra machine said it for tips and the Jon Benet case. I let the message on the recorded line and again. I never heard back from investigators. Boulder police released a statement this year saying that you you know Levy Linda. It's I've no fucking idea to pronounce lever Oliver Oliver had previously confessed and investigators had looked into news claimed the Boulder Police Department is aware of Gary has investigators potential involvement this case including several previous confessions said the statement the Department routinely receives information on this investigation information provided to the police department is reviewed along with the many tips and theories who receive I looked into this Michael Vale guys well who settled us about Gary. He also looks like a total pedo. Why is he still friends with Gary over twenty years after Gary Basically told him he killed Jon Benet Fuck you Mike Valey piece of Shit Yours? Rely R- interfering with the murder investigation to try and get your face in some magazines or your longtime buddies with an admitted you know fucking child child abuser for pedophile another potential suspect according into Ollie Gray private investigator higher the Ramsey family who died in two thousand seventeen was an electrician named Michael Hill Goth who worked at a nearby auto salvage yard gray referred to as is a hell raiser tied to alleged property dispute involving the ramseys could that have served as possible motivation to seek revenge on the family and kidnapped Jon Benet speculated that once a twenty six year August caught wind that he could be a suspect in the case officials found a blueprint leisurely similar to his near the Ramsey home he committed suicide before anyone could get to him. His death occurred two days days after in one thousand nine hundred seven press conference announcing that the Boulder D. was zeroing in on a new suspect however hell remains cleared by you know both. DNA which again questionable the fact that he's dead as fuck seems a little extreme to get back at him for like a little. You know a money dispute properties what yeah I guess that stuff can't happen authorities. He's closing investigation said in two thousand sixteen helps Gary Leyva had been carefully investigated for many years and had not been considered suspects in two thousand the sixers you mentioned a former schoolteacher John Mark Karr confessed out of the blue to the strangulation of Jon Benet in graphic detail a car was arrested in Thailand where he'd lived on the Lam facing child porn charges and us us when he confessed he was immediately flown aboard requesting ultimately cleared after DNA failed to match the profile of an unknown male cars dementia confession involved a series of diary entries allegedly written didn't from the scene of the crime and dramatic account car recalled strangling Jon Benet in a love game gone wrong close. Your pretty eyes sweetheart reads the excerpt in which car repeatedly he'd leave. I who himself as DAX's DAX's loves you so much. Oh my God I love you Jon Benet am I love his eyes are slowly clothing and my lover's eyes are slowly closing. I know we shouldn't make it illegal to write creepy shit like that about wanting to have sex with dead kids. That'll be an assault on free speech but can we make it legal for parents to get to hit these people. It's hard to they want in the face at least one time for doing that a car you know his he was dismissed as a suspect altogether written Alpha's pedophile. You'll just wanted notoriety notoriety famous. He wasn't even in the area what happened just fuck another not a car believed to change his name. It is gender living somewhere as a free woman in the US named Delilah Alexis Reich new general same old creep suspect I feel sorry for was the Ramsey neighborhood Santa Claus bill mcreynolds who died in two thousand to the age of seventy you too friend of the Ramseys who dressed up Santa Claus the week before John but as murder to entertain the neighborhood children want patsies famous Christmas gatherings the possibility the now deceased McDonald's had anything to do Jon Benet death extremely unlikely but does get tossed around on the Internet lock a lot as far as suspect list after dues we've named He. He's the most suspected you know suspect under the intruder theory mcreynolds was rumored to have paid a little too much attention to Jon Benet going as far as to arrange a secret visit from Santa Claus on Christmas supposedly he'd chosen Jumba to be a special friend going as far as to bring a vial of glitter gifted to him by the six year old with him into heart surgery even stranger. He asked his wife to mix to build glitter with his ashes where he died. I mean it is a little bit odd. Twenty neighbor girl's glitter mixed in with your ashes that story generated buzz the Denver Post failed to amount to anything more than the Ah sensationalized characterised assignation of a friendly old man poor bastard should never said Shit about the glitter build us to have been a good guy. Bill was born in South Texas a few miles from the border. little town of Donna Texas nineteen thirty received a degree in journalism from the University of Texas served in the army return to his home amount mater time for five years before for moving to Minneapolis to attend the University of Minnesota where he earned his doctorate in American studies hired by Colorado University Journalism Department in Nineteen Sixty eight and then he and his wife Janna spent the next x thirty years in boulder raised three kids after his retirement from Colorado University Ninety two he volunteered a lot of time to be a children's Santa Claus he really took up to the role as a life goal Jena said after his death he loved being Senate he loved little children and then the Ramsey case destroyed that career and just devastated him he loved that little girl who was is a very sad thing in his life because he generally loved children. It was the happiest part of his life after be named suspect by the Court of public opinion for the social backlash that entailed key and Jen moved moved the left for Cape Cod nine hundred ninety eight mcreynolds never volunteered to be sent again instead he the grandfather of six volunteered at local senior center last view the last few years of his life before dying of a heart attack and poor bastard not all people who like to spend time with pedophile. It's important to remember that after my myself that sometimes comes after reading about all these dirtbags there are other even less credible suspects in the intruder theory too many dimension. Let's talk about one last creep Randall dewitt Simmons Randall dewitt Simmons is a piece of Shit. He is also a pageant photographer who took pictures or was who took pictures of Jon Benet six months before she died died and he was arrested earlier this year on Kiddie porn charges of course he was he liked little girls. All sexed up like hot kids dirty bird sixty-six-year-old sixty-six-year-old was arrested this past July second the tiny central Oregon town of Oakridge charged with fifteen counts of encouraging child sex abuse currently awaiting trial and Oregon in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight less than two years after Jonbenet's murder he was arrested for walking down the street naked and one of the first things he said two officers when he was arrested was. I didn't Kill Java so that's you know that's fun not suspicious at all despite all this. PD never considered him to be a serious suspect. They seem to put him in the nuttier than squirrels squirrels Shit crackpot list put him on that he was given a psychic val or cycle following one thousand nine hundred arrests so it's confession killers all over again man. What is it what these nuts confessing confessing the horse shit heinous stuff they didn't do some kids thrive on negative attention? I guess some grownups do to now's the family one last time I Pazzi Genie's mother other Patsy Ramsey took whatever secrets she was holding from that you know that more into the gray which he passed away after thirteen year battle with cancer the main murder theory with Patsy is that while she was cleaning up yet another one of John as Bedouin accidents now she flipped out slammed her little girl's head against the side of a hard blunt service like a bathtub in and then panicked like a stretch to me a big stretch but former detective Steve. Thomas thinks that Mrs Ramsay strangled her daughter in panic moment on Christmas night nineteen ninety-six for accidentally caused a serious wound two little girls head. He contends that the girl's father John Ramsey after realizing what happened chose to protect his wife rather than help authorities achieve also thinks the Apache wrote the note and Apache did Jon Benet. It's unlikely that she covered it up on her own right like you said everything from her husband. So that brings us of course to Papa John John was the one defined Johnny's body the one to ruin the crime scene he'll he he also if you'll recall reportedly disappeared for over an hour during the search for Jon Benet report rumors of a history of sexual abuse began to circulate almost immediately after the murder became sensational news story though no evidence was ever found to prove allegations John Address those rumors at a press a statement saying there is no history a person doesn't go throughout their lives as normal human being one night turned into a monster slaughter their daughter go to bed and get up an abnormal from there on that doesn't happen and to his his point no allegations any wrongdoing ever played this guy before or since three other daughters none of them ever alleged. Anything seems unlikely he molested Western again. She may not have even been molested. Analysis brother Burke Warner Spitz is the ninety three year old German American forensic pathologist who has worked on so many high profile cases including investigations into the assassination of JFK Martin Luther King he testified at the trials of Casey Anthony O. J. Simpson and he consulted on Jon Benet Homicide Investigation Investigation and his review of John as autopsy included finding a perfectly rectangle or defect that he suspected came from a blow to the little girl's head with a blunt the heavy flashlights seen in a photo on the kitchen counter and the crime scene photos he cleaned the flashlight fifty eight and a half inch Gash in her skull to perfection however no trace evidence of you know neither Jon Benet or Burke was founded the flashlight. The flashlight became more suspicious when tied to the pineapple scenario at theory. We talked about earlier. Maybe Burke gave her. Some little slice of pineapple is an late night snack like an argument stuck with flashlights in a moment of anger. No Oh kids do stupid shit why strangulation afterwards though why the possible vaginal penetration again they think that you know John or Patsy both have simulated related all of that to two point crime different direction many theories with burke revolve around Jon Benet irritating her brother Burke hitting around a rage and frustration. I mean he did have golf club. Instant years earlier could have gotten angry after strike assisted with the flashlight then ran and got in the parents who came and helped cover up. Yes I mean it is possible. Jon Benet seemed been alive when she was strangled. Oh so I mean that got man. You know what John Kills. His own daughter struggles to keep his nine year old son from getting caught but I guess there was the possible that she didn't appear to be alive that so many things and these aren't the only theories. There's also a bunch of conspiracy theories. Let's let's let's take a break from all this reality. Check in see what utter lunatics think happened on Today's idiots of the Internet take. We're GONNA bounce around for a second before looking at some comments under one video. Some people actually believe the Jon Benet. They never died. I mean it's necessarily or older. PD lovers theory they think she went into hiding then resurfaces pop star Katy. Perry is the real theory what the flip according this theory or or Katy Perry Song Wide Awake is believed to be an undercover message revealing the truth about her passes Jon Benet one of the manholes his theories that Katy Perry is six years older than Jon Benet the others for this one is kind of but but but not really a physical resemblance between Katy Perry and Jon Benet Ramsey as well as the kind of but not really assisting resemblance of both sets of parents. It's super dumb but some people believe it 'cause some people are idiots. One youtuber theorist went to great lengths to prove the similarities of their eyebrows rouse obviously means the same eyebrows different youtuber points out the lines and Katy Perry's autobiography. She wrote in reference to writing songs at an early age wjr not that I was one of those stage kids there was no Jon Benet Ramsey inside of me waiting to burst out. They think that's see she saying it's it's they don't understand fucking metaphors force analogies. got okay so another conspiracy is it the little dyed blonde haired girl was sacrificed in a satanic ritual of course course that shows up. There's all kinds of articles saying that a brotherhood term for devil is John Bet Excuse me which is quite similar to already unique first name but none of these articles seem to have sources who who is this Brotherhood probably just a term someone on Reddit when they're drunk and someone else riposted you know here we are another another satanic theory is that Jon Benet was killed in panic pedophile ring ritual nope move away from that one something aliens kilter really really paranoid and crazy people who think that aliens would hit her with a black object choker then right a weird ransom note that may make it look like maybe she'd been molested then move her body not call random then you get down this now. They're aliens. They have to make sure so complicated. No alien has ever been arrested that we know of ever you know are they're worried about covering the tracks also conspiracy variously links jonbenet's death with nine eleven year according to conspiracy the unharmed mind jonbenet was murdered by Royal Canadian Air Force Colonel Operating on behalf of major British and American corporations and the aluminum naughty because her father refused to assist America's enemies in planning nine eleven. Yes people believe grownups believed this people with more free time than me just like with the aliens why the fuck would trained assassins leave such a weird crime scene behind when I just have her disappear forever even in even arguably weird or theory. Is that some people some people think wolf killed her I want to repeat that some people believe their six-year was murdered by fucking Wolf Big Dog and and the boulder. PD couldn't figure that out an investigation involved. God knows how many officers dragged on for over twenty years did the wool shelter the wolf put on that little garage. You know the Wolf Change Your clothes the wolf right fucking note. How does the ransom note work into that good question? Stereo hold issues attacked by a wolf and her parents freaked out they can they get in trouble for not protecting their daughter from Wolf's offs because that's the thing so they covered up wolf murder by staging kidnapping anyone over the age of twelve who believes that should be sterilized forever not kidding Nelson the few youtube comments left under a video called program to kill Satanic Cover Part thirty-one Jon Benet case John and Patsy Ramsey here my favorite ever comments think tank supervisor Debra rhymer posts this reeks of multi generational M. K. Ultra mind control programming Lord helpless job De ed thanks for showing up multiple generations of people with their minds controlled by the CIA right all this training all this investment also a six year old can be killed a girl who oh you know could also just be run over if they wanted gun but nope this long complicated can lots of training mind-control weird shit takes decades kill. This kid obvious Ivy League sociology Professor Jerry Jeff I post trauma based mind control preparing her to become a Hollywood elite sex life and got out of hand. Maybe oh sure Jerry maybe or maybe you're fucking crazy. Hollywood elite sex slave won't hang corey feldman. You guys love each other. A mental member is to see post shadow government satanic cover up snuff film. CIA Christmas is a high blood sacrifice day. Thanks is to see you just really opened our eyes to your ability to throw at random conspiracy terms. I I can do that to to check us out right. I I see your terms arrays you agenda Twenty one Denver Airport Builder Burgers Bohemian Growth Flat Earth Wizards probably not even a troll Michelle Post. I am sure Hillary Clinton is a part of all of this. Oh man think about fun Michelle beat of hang out with if she actually believes Shit this stupid I love kills me the killary stuff what people believed the specific details they believe the shit like the Hillary Clinton who was the fucking can first lady in one thousand nine hundred six time away from White House duties to kill a six year old pageant contestant and bolder than higher body in the basement. You'd think someone may have noticed the first lady learn about the neighborhood. Maybe not she was in the White House in secret service agents never let her out of their consign public. You can get sterilizes well Michelle for sure forever any kids you have need to be taken from you. Finally an Kogi knee tow just gibberish ex post the word Burke as defined in the World World Book Dictionary from Nineteen Seventy four is to kill by suffocation or strangulation. The second definition is to conceal that actually is true true does that's true and the word coincidence means of remarkable concurrence of events or circumstances without apparent casual casual connection causal connection and the second definition of the word lunatic extremely further foolish or an eccentric person. That's you kid wasn't named Burke so he could grow up a strangle his sister you paranoid Fuck Waku. Stop a good job. Youtube sounds better with your life. The Dif- definition of the word flustered mush mouth struggles goes doing so well for half and then I got tripped up but I felt good I felt good. Just take a little break from the heaviness just just look into other maniacs scout here okay so final thoughts we likely we will never know who killed Jon Benet Ramsey. Now tons of books have been written by tons of people involves suspects detectives private investigators on and on and on and the one thing they all agree agree on his nothing. Maybe that's another reason cases fascinating for so long we meet sacks do not like unsolvable puzzles. We like answers case. It feels like there should be some answers but there aren't any nothing definitive if I was forced to pick I've thought a lot about this last week I would say the Jami was molested and then her brother did it. I would say say that it was an accident and at the parents freaked out and then decided to cover it up in a in a you know panicked attempt to protect their son. It doesn't make a lot of sense it does make the most sense we the patsy wrote the ransom note John Intentionally messed up the crime scene done the the body the throughout you know the investigators here's with various nonsense burke was not asleep no John and Patsy smart successful people maybe even in their shock you know and trying to pull themselves together to protect their Sonnen Donna these come up with his fucking convoluted plan once they start on that road. Maybe their word they'll be implicated as well now. They're going to suffer also I. I don't know I you think I had to pick. That's what happened. It seems to be the least ugly truth of anything that could have happened. As far as I can take you know accidental blow from her brother far better faith and some pervert breaking and terrifying Jon Benet before she died terrible for the parents of it is true you know key magid having two kids have one killed the other who for parents. Maybe that maybe that is the worst scenario than anything else I described to start this suck so recipe Shamanee Ramsey. I hope it was quick and painless. Whatever happened time now for top five takeaways time away number one child beauty pageants pageants are weird and gross to me? Hey you think your kid is cute. I get it but maybe just telling that maybe just tell them to give them healthy. self-esteem without dress them up like you know pedo Porn Stars number to the murder of the six year old beauty pageant winner Jon Benet will never be solved despite over a thousand pieces of evidence thousands of man hours investigating from the initial selling of the crime scene by Janis family and their a friend to the lack of concrete evidence to pin any one person to crime to know investigators seemingly being able to agree on anything in the death of several suspects. This mystery will remain a mystery number three. Why did the story becomes a popular? I America was captivated by the death of a pretty little girl because a lot of American meats acts worship beauty. We care more about pretty people than lady nets which maybe work on changing that bit number four if brother Burke didn't have anything to do with job as murder then besides her he's the biggest biggest victim and all of this his family thrown into the centering of a media shit show and he himself became a hated murder suspect at the age of nine in September of two thousand sixteen to honor the twentieth anniversary of Jon Benet Ramsey Death Burke Ramsey came forward even out of the public for a long time wanted to share his side of the story for the first time Dr Phil Ramsey poured out his heart Dr Phil describe the emotions he underwent saying I remember the viewing the casket was small. Her eyes were closed. I want to honor her memory by doing this interview. I don't want anyone else to forget. He also said in the interview that for the last twenty years I wanted to grow up like a normal kid which does not include going in front of TV. Cameras Curly Burke Ramsey's a computer analyst who works remotely from his home based office man. Maybe I was wrong about best case being burke actually killing her now hoping he didn't do it this case every day. I've researched it. I suspect Beck something else. fucking aliens okay this Aliens Lunardi Aliens. Maybe that's it number. Five New Info another theory has been popping up more and Moore's claims that the murder of Jon Benet is linked to the murders of two other little girls in Colorado and Hawaii retired police investigator James Benesch is of the belief that the murder of seven-year-old Tracy Murray Neef nineteen eighty-four and killing a four year old lacy ruff nineteen ninety-three have something to do with John as murder as far as the same killers. All the girls were between the ages ages a foreign seven reduction in similar fashion. He thinks they were killed by brothers Aaron Todd Sean Sean Sean Lau Areo Sean Lau when Tracy jean-yves was kidnapped to nine hundred eighty four members of the Sean Lau family were living close to tracey's house Thornton also they were living close to lacey rough when she was abducted and killed inqui- after Lacey's father discovered her body todd called. The police said his brother Aaron abducted sexually assaulted and killed lacy. Aaron was convicted for all of this life in prison so he couldn't have killed Oh Jon Benet he was in jail but Aaron had previously been in juvenile detention for sexual assaults that he allegedly committed as a minor in Jordan. which is you know very near Boulder and when former detective benesch spoke with the person Aaron had gone to juvenile detention for assaulting she alleged that it was actually someone else Sean How's relative who had assaulted her she'd been pressured to you say it was Aaron Benesch believe Erin conviction may now be called into question suspects? The actual culprit may be involved in the murder of Jon Benet. He thinks that culprit maybe the other brother taught Zombie can todd aired guy man so many fucking people in this thing was Zombie was found dead in nineteen. ninety-six is unclear whether Sean Lau family were based but in May that year you're a male member of the family was arrested for salt as well as for domestic violence at a county close to boulder this means. It's man could have you know been living in Jon Benet vicinity may one of the other relatives it came to visit him. It's a stretch I know the stretch I know but it's the latest the never ending Shicho list of suspects someone is. I'm sure considering writing another book about the Jon Benet Ramsey case away like I know way more than I did about this case before we started started but I also feel no closure. Oh my heck I don't flip and like it. Maybe someday our future robot overlords going to figure out what happened. Jon benet still they don't the Jon Benet Ramsey murder case has been sucked hope he found it interesting entertaining thank you to the Times the team thanks to Quinn to suck Lindsey comments my scared to death co host. Thanks for listening to that again. Thanks to high priestess suck harmony veldkamp reverend. Dr Joe Horse Got Johnson Paisley. Thanks bitter APP design crew new update almost here two three three more rounds of Beta testing this past week and so far no more bugs fingers crossed. Dare I say new update maybe by the time you hear this or just maybe a few days away. Thanks also to access apparel script. Keeper Zach Flannery hope you feel better. He's been little stick thanks to Heather Knowledge Ninja Rylander for additional research judge and what's up next week. I don't know for the first time I don't know it's GonNa be surprised still deciding time travels in two weeks and that space has voted for that. That'll be fun different one next week. ooh It's got find out no surprised in the show GONNA stick with a would love to end on you time now for time. SUCKER UPDATES Times Mirror. I update is from Melissa. We're only GONNA do a few day because you got some. We have some big ones. Some whoppers thought this was a good one senate a few weeks ago some heartfelt food for Thought Melissa writes Dan I began listening to they had a great deal of time stationed at Fort Knox training over the summer. Thank you for your service. One of the other trainees enjoyed your show. I have as well maybe a little sick myself as I'm a the longer I'm in the military the more differences I've seen with people I'm writing today because you've mentioned several times the love you have your children how the time you have with them. After divorce gorsuch changed I hope you and your ex co parent well. We're lucky we were very amicable. It's half and half joint custody which is nice. Writing is a woman who is also a father's rights advocate. I Co parent well with my daughter's father and my husband's struggles to co parent with his ex and their seven year old and three year old daughters. He's a motivator for why I'm a member of the father's rights movement in in two soldiers I deployed with who committed suicide after losing everything in divorce battles including replaceable stuff but more importantly access to their children how not deadbeat not abusive not anything bad about these men that would prevent them from co-parenting the one thing that made them unfit parents was having a penis and this is typical in Alabama twenty two states thus far have passed equal parenting as standard unless one parent is deemed unsafe with criminal or drug history as it should be. I wanted to share a news story about a young man that fought for time with his child fought against the mothers. There's history of abuse and neglect how does young child die in the mother's care then have his rights of free speech stripped jailed for speaking out against judge. Thank you check that out too much to go into detail here today because we got a lot more of what you said to share here it varies by state and county by county takes five percent of each penny clipper child support most yet a father's pockets many fifty fifty parenting parenting plans include wave ARY include waving child support in favor of pain directly to childcare provisions at each parents home and one or both parent providing insurance splitting medical costs. Yes you know the exact thing you would do. If you're parenting under the same roof I think this leads less unwed pregnancies less babies meal tickets and if dads are not not only allowed but kind of push by society to be in babies lives at conception maybe less babies made until the man is really sure sorry can't can't account fulfill birth control but I know men who have had babies and made the statement that the state can't take more out of their check already do if these types of men are expected to provide half of the physical go care has the diapers half the waking up etc.. We not only create more well rounded children but we keep the maturity level of some parents down Alabama has tried to pass similar bills to the one Kentucky he just passed his share for shared custody as default it gets passed in the Senate but rejecting the house too much money the state would lose my husband planned both children and his marriage tried for babies attended the money loses all the federal government pay subsidies for stage collects known support order Scott. My husband planned both children in his marriage tried for babies attended doctor's visit Sheridan parenting responsibilities until the day his ex ask for divorce and her provision of care were met. He spent eighteen hours a week with two daughters that comes out to thirty nine days out of three hundred and sixty five a little more than ten point. Five percent gave mom the House no equity asked pays child support was made to feel every move he made was wrong and we'll be punished. We put six thousand dollars into a lawyer were able to get close to forty percent of the time but still not labeled as shared custody. MOM has default and veto rights we will go back to court annually until the youngest is nineteen asking for those rights the constitutional guaranteed rights rights. This should be a no brainer. I don't care if it causes one hundred thousand dollars. We're also lucky with our income. MOM is as well. Could you please talk on these points. Please point out to Casey Anthony's of the mother population. Yeah dads can be bad to the abuse at the hands of Stepdad's allowed to happen by women yet. Good dads pushed away so many songs come to mind father father of mine from ever clear all these daddy issues how many and the courts are fostering them. If you've ever seen the dad crying over his kids a hard military man with tears streaming down his face because of course tripped everything he fought for if you've ever seen a bitch ass mom who made the funeral of his into a circus and a pity party for her if you've ever seen a four four year old receive a folded flag not knowing her mom daddy away from him catching from able to provide a roof over his own head even working two jobs if you knew the feelings one of these these soldiers struggles with knowing other women are okay doing this to their kids fathers that I hope to hear podcastone supporting to good parents being in the military I can only lobby so much but I think if we could fix fix this one issue we can lower the overall rate of suicide in the military and a single young. Dad's kept out of their children's lives. Thank you suck master. Keep on suck and Melissa listen. Wow yeah thanks Melissa arena of so many great points. I mean that's such a big problem. Society Absentee Fathers and then the courts do in many cases foster that which is very unfortunate. Don't don't keep good dad's away from their kids. They should have equal rights. This is something you don't hear about a lot. In the push for equal rights equal parenting rights for father's equality needs used to work in every direction. The mothers are more important to their children than fathers is inherently sexist is wrong. I've seen some fathers far more maternal nurturing instincts than than some others should be case by case you know hearing loss of fathers rights connected to a military suicide is especially tragic support to good parents put the kids first and divorced forces well. I can proudly say the my ex and I both did that. A proudly swallowed a fair amount of pride in my divorce and did what was best for Kinda Monroe and I know a lot of other dads have been the same. Don't don't hurt your kids by trying to hurt your ex. It's about the most selfish fucking thing you can do in life helps. You hope someone who needs to hear this message does here. Thanks Melissa wouldn't have shared it if it wasn't for you. Keep keep fighting hail fucking Nimrod now that a lot of great updates about mormonism Mormons Non Mormons like Melissa most were very long detailed messages only time time for for one of those before we get to it quick Mormon update that answer something for me from Ryan Brewster who writes hello there in regards to Martin Harris taking the first draft of the translated plates it is believed when Martin took the pages to show his skeptical wife Lucy. She held the pages ransom and said if the gold plates are real and Joseph is really translating them he should be able to do it again word for word. This is why Joseph said he couldn't translate the same plates ever again and the translation changed so the pages may not have been lost lost but just kept away from Martin and Joseph's they may be lost now but I thought this detail was super interesting and worth mentioning Love The podcast Ryan Brewster. Wow That is interesting entity Ryan. I was confused about that part. I couldn't get the answer they want that makes so much more sense because how would it help Martin lose them. The super important papers now his wife token Tokyo wanted Joseph to recreate them so she could see if he was telling the truth and he didn't said God didn't want repeat story so either God gave a New Vision or you know he just knew that if if he tried to repeat initial prophecy be caught up in a lie very very interesting thank you for sharing that and finally a very nice update from some Mormon time suckers than spaces and and Longtime Standard Fans Caroline Park Mitchell who writes devout Mormons and we still love you you frigging heck spun mother trigger longtime listener. It's my first in writing in this topic seemed to import did not reach out some clarification for your most recent episodes my husband and I are devout members the church Jesus Christ latter-day Saints Mormons and we listened to your episode in Mormonism and you'll be pleased to know that we love you and time suck we will listen to your stand up from the beginning of your standup shows in Salt Lake City in the most recent lifetime suck we will continue to be loyal spaces as we have since day one of your thank you we also wanted to help clarify a few misconceptions nares and thank you for that as my favorite kind updates we were both raise mormon but my mom converted to the church when she was seventeen and is the only member of the church in her family so we understand that to other some of the stories of how the Church was founded can be hard to believe so we weren't offended by how hard you weren't Joseph Smith each person has to decide for themselves if they believe in we by no means plan to try and convince you you mentioned the episode around the nineteen forty seven minute mark that in one thousand nine hundred ninety eight when Spencer W Kimball received revelation to allow black men and boys to be ordained into the priesthood this is true but he also lifted a ban on women and girls being allowed to enter latter day saint temples that parties clarification although there may have been some restrictions on black women and girls going to the temple which of course is not fair. All of the women and girls have always. It's been allowed to go to the temple. This is especially true because the temple is where we get married also called sealed so it's absolutely necessary for women to be allowed in. I just want to clarify in case anyone had interpreted that as meaning all women have been excluded from tap services since that is certainly not the case the second point. No one can truly judge another person's worthiness but we definitely don't think you are a son of perdition perdition. Here's a good article explains what that truly means. The short version is sons of perdition are those who had assured perfect knowledge of the truth than voluntarily turned from it the first requirement Dan to become part of this group have been members of the LDS Church after that they would have to go have the truth revealed to them with such sureness and clarity that there would be no doubt out of their minds about the truthfulness of the Mormon Gospel so basically it's impossible for you to perdition because you never became a member of the Church and I assume you haven't had any visions or revelations that have made you absolutely certain the LDS church is true and decided to actively work against so hack yeah not being sent to Satan's outta realm. I like that part of the update a lot three I have to say I was disappointed by how you just glazed over the Hans Mill Mask around one twenty five. I appreciate you mentioned. It thought you would have at least comment on the terrible atrocities that occurred there. No matter what religion someone belongs to the they do not deserve to be murdered in cold blood after they surrendered how their bodies mutilated their wives assaulted their houses pillaged many accredited story states these tragedies more inflicted on Mormons that day on many of their cases saw start bothered me that you feel dimension that none of these men were ever investigated or prosecuted it despite there being eye witnesses and numerous council what happened this was made even worse by the fact that Missouri State government was so heavily involved persecution and violence against the Mormons. If you spend so much time I pointed out how silly some of these things we believe are should spend a few minutes expressing how wrong it is that anyone would suffer so much because their beliefs yes. I'm I'm doing that now part of that was it was just such a big topic to pull off a week that biggest episode yet I just I had to cut some narrative. Details weren't things that I was just I didn't have time to thoroughly the explore and that's one of them so yes not not intentional to whitewash it being settled also like to thank you for your kind words about Mormons. I'm glad that you've enjoyed your interaction with us. MHM Oh heck yes I have my husband and I truly believe that the best way to gauge the worth of any organization religious secular even the curious is by the good they do in the lives they live. I like that I did a lot sorry. This is a long just want to let you know that we appreciate you doing your very best to be impartial. You haven't offended all of us. You're loyal spaces caroline said like the last Oh oh Shit Carlin you correct me new it fucking. Ui Frick it up I flip it Carlin said like the last name of comedian George Carlin yes and Parker Mitchell so many messages. That's just like that. We're sending so many devout Mormons who listen to everything I said and are okay and we'll listen this week Kudos to you in my opinion is so admirable especially today when it feels like so how many people wanted to get outraged right and this would be something new be worse. I said this on the secret sauce last Thursday but I want to say it again here before leave. I applaud many of you Mormons for being able what's laugh your own religion especially those of you who are deeply faithful to takes a lot of strength and confidence a lot of courage. I think they'd be able to laugh ourselves. As very important life is so much fun for all all of us when we're all not offended all the time you know what if we lived in a world where we all joke and be reverend and talk things out learn about each other not get all bent out of shape over the opinion of someone else and and not have that knee jerk reaction of storm off taking our toys run home crying we here's something we don't like to agree with the not talk about it later. Our world is good very good. But how much better would it be. If that was the reality we lived in one we can disagree and get the heck and flip over it. My goodness Hail Eq- Mormons. Thank you for sending that in thanks time soccer ninety two now we all did. That's all for this week another other long one Dang it. I blame the script keeper two of US doing research together this too much shit. We could fuck in sucked into you. Don't trust your little ones enclosed fit for rebellious Elliot's seventeen year old parade them out on a catwalk this week and just most importantly guys. Gosh Dang Heck would you just keep on sucking after B._P._I. Specializes in taking your hard to

Jon benet Ramsey Jon Benet Jon Benet Patricia R murder Jon Benet Benet Ramsey John America boulder Colorado John Ramsey Burke John Jonah Patricia Jon Jon Benet Jon benet reposing John Bennett Ramsey Georgia Patricia Ramsey Ramseys Google
BK Previews The Falcons Game with Ryan Edwards

Broncos Daily Podcast

42:03 min | 2 months ago

BK Previews The Falcons Game with Ryan Edwards

"There will be no death by inches. This is the broncos daily podcast with brandon krisztal. I want everything. I want all the meatballs and pasta. Happy thursday broncos country that some fun football tonight here so i know folks excited about the border war wyoming can the ramseys snappy four game losing streak at last check draft kings. Were three and a half point. Dogs you've got the niners and the packers and editor super banged up. Yeah the packers have running back cova dish. She's but seventy one percent of the niners snaps. i believe. Seventy percent of their scrimmage yards will not be available so i went to draftkings and check that out seven and a half was what i got it at And i think you should do the same if you haven't used wrappings yet by the way use promo code. Bk this sunday. they're covering their ensuring of one hundred dollars in bet. So you can check that out on draftking sportsbook. But the broncos and falcons are on as scheduled yesterday after i posted the podcast with rick lewis. We found out in the afternoon. Shelby harris was added to the covid nineteen reserve list. Not because he's tested positive. In fact he test negative a here again today but someone close to him tested positive so he had to go into isolation and i believe by lee rule required to miss five days and if they count that going back to wednesday he will miss the game sunday if they can count it tuesday which is when i believe he told the team and and then went and i think just got a hotel somewhere from not mistaken is is a story. I heard Will that count. And can't he potentially get on the plane sunday and join his team. Never home going to be a lot easier to execute. So i don't really know the details there. They could be without without shelby harris as we can. Yeah that no might pursell at is a a tough a tough road to climb to try to slow down todd early on the ground and then we know how much he's mammal create. Pass rush pressure up the middle But the broncos back on the practice field and wednesday off Get going today. they'll practice at one. Thirty depends on when you you hear this But business as usual no new positive tests to to reports even though there's spikes all over the country and we're hitting all time highs in in colorado certainly training in the wrong direction. I think they have an eleven percent. Positivity rate i saw on twitter when they're trying to stay below five is is the target. Obviously zeros really targeted five is a realistic target. So things headed in the wrong direction here and really everywhere. But the broncos nonetheless we'll get ready to go to atlanta to take on the falcons on sunday and again that's an eleven o'clock kick if you look at the numbers. The falcons have one of the worst pass. Defenses and football. I think they're ranked thirty first so drew lock and company will have a chance to really get going at least in. Theory against the falcons now running. The ball may be a little harder. But somehow they're six against run but they should be able to sling it around the yard and that could make for a really fun game of course if know. Aj boy a if he's not concussion protocol then on the other side it could be a really long day for the broncos. Defense if the falcons offense is on the field plus know about the idea of early in the run game. I wanted you different. Do lock though. Because i think more drew lock the better doing a couple of days after the big comeback win so drew lock joined us for zoom conference. Call the before practice On thursday afternoon and the first question asked you'd expect was about the big win sunday. Does it take any load off his shoulders going going forward and he you know relieve any pressure we could definitely build off of it. I don't know if it takes me load off. Anybody shoulders exhibited does and nice your job. You're sixteen leads this joggers. You let your guard down a little relaxed when we come in not fair to well this week south economy like that but now we carried it this week us momentum. I feel proud extremely well last week. Practice wise guys doing it on their own. We had to operate from all for a day last week. So maybe just taking some of the ways that we went about the week last week into this week i think back out curious in this weekend. Then secondly has been weird season yet the whole off season of remote learning and then seems like every week. Now you're having to be at home doing your virtual meetings and his a covert and everything do you just kind of roll with those punches. You figure that now. This is kind of become the standard operating procedure. Yeah you have to know there. No other way to do it. It's obviously upsetting you guys especially after went. That's always fun. The next day in the locker room tell stories about the game. We all knew what happened in ireland. Sorta game hanging out but you know the home for a little bit signal The knowledge that comes out of that. It's a drew kitja hamler each week. However you as billy net record that you didn't get a chance to august. I see we're blown a lot. He's finally getting a lot of practice. Rests like you said which has been really big for us as a group in me and him united. oh chemistry's well hopefully keep that rolling in a game. I'm seeing start with practice today. Hopefully back smile on. Get a little bit of the walks in the next day so we keep on it. It's definitely more of a build. Their job progressive. Gyp mike klis skin. I go to school all the reload stuff. You've done over the past few months. Is there anything in your prep work. You might keep later on down the road when this isn't part of the plate. Yeah there's definitely some things they end up doing would only do in the league being facility. There's a little more time view to sit all There's a couple of things. I'll take from this but i do like being silly with everybody. Do enter from coaches one on denial. Do allow boxers. Talk about it through that kind of no. that was all be together on zoom drive. Today you lose some time here and there. But i feel like we're going to make the best of drew. I was wondering it looked like the not that the shutdown but the shorter pass was emphasized. Wasn't it and what did you think about. You know just looking shorter than You know you normally. That was in the first half looking shorter than you normally do with the passing game kind of had to do the deepens without we were facing plays to be there certain rules of their defense and that was kinda gained by there might have been a player to check dow maybe field but that was part of the game plan this week or last week wanted to wanted to get the ball. Our hands guys make plays vance it on his defense and played a little bit different elvis up a couple times forces off the field without any points than we adjusted. A half from tearing your. Thanks for joining us today. Congratulations on the win is a part of you. After fourteen. eighteen hundred fifty five and three totti's in the fourth quarter to go to at shurmur. And say let me. Let's let down and go to the air and more abuse. Did you notice you were criticized nationally for dancing. I know that's you. What did you think of that that your dance blake continues to be a topic opposition. You know i definitely got it. Sits me and truthfully feel like person if not you know. Other people are more than one but that person. This might not be able to dance as well as i do. So now i will be our that way to. We'll see. Hopefully i dance me get better in. The public eye is at officer. Ali not stop yes. So that's that but as far as me could shurmur. We have great relationship. Non scientists. you release week goes however attack A pretty good idea of what we wanted to get out off your practice today. S see what. Thanks stick in Things many little modifications location so zero end up going with this by sunday. Hey drew how much do things kind of changed for you. In terms of the feel when you guys decide to go up tempo. No huddle linda do you wanna see. Maybe that you boost row the game rather than just when you guys fall behind. There's good time to do. You know you're talking about pretty biased quarterback here that simple for think three four years in college. So i would definitely say do enjoy that and do that Best same time in in the nfl game. There is a time to do it and we balance balanced pretty well because of how much you've practiced it because of being able to do because of how he did it earlier in the year and even at the training camp that helps us in those two minute drills. You'll say it's second nature to us and we've done it quite a bit. I've got to forty here. Drew one. Would you like to see alberto and no out there together. A little bit more. I know was quick to say that they've been out there together. Some you only got three tight ends. And then how cool was it to be able to throw both alberto and keiji their first touchdowns and you're going to do anything special with the ball once they get the cool pain on it. You gotta sign that to form package with albert and is definitely a dangerous on there's definitely ways molded into a game offers germs on a good job of that with those guys especially since our night doesn't have games under his belt to see to do on the field before you know. He made a whole package. Hold it and i think it's making good a statement for himself to be on the field a little bit as far as recessions. Go that i thought it was pretty cool in three hours. I shout out with rooms for festival touchdown. he didn't have any sign. The college ball Have signed professional ball and jj we. Hopefully they got the ball back forum. Yeah in the excitement. Oh we didn't know where it went. Hopefully someone has it. When that you're actually fallback. Stevens eight drew do practice. The dance moves before. Is it just something that comes through on the field in the moment. now. I don't brag som- Thinking about me in the dance moves in celebrations might not have been a lot of history on me. Because i've been doing that for a long long time been. Doing that. probably started with the bag in college. Became the winningest college. In quite honestly it brings off together. We'll have undoing. It brings joy enjoyed talk about it. Even go back after winning. Watch you like what are you doing now. It's it's just unveiling all as part of the younger generation of football might have a little more fun as far as dancing goes using all hyphen ever few more. Excellent eric von drew. Have you seen jerry. Jeudy respond the last couple of weeks ago. You mentioned last week. He was kind of had a different tone in the huddle. I think a career high in yards. Or maybe where you see him. Growing the most in preparation it takes. It's a lot to ask another rookie. That got no preseason games to comment and know exactly and then have the guy tactically would be your mentor. Slash leader be hurt in mice on an island there by itself as far as figuring out how to really know prep for a week. And i think like i said no preseason games. You didn't get really judge yourself against non team until his live. Of course he took that first game really hard on salt. Ever since then. I saw get better and better each week and same with his play in my opinion in. Come out again this week especially with missing yesterday's practicing be ready to fired up to that to Co founder editor to kind of piggyback. Off of that when you're a quarterback who you're still young in your career you've got these wide receivers who are rookies the as you mentioned in the offseason training camp what is the biggest most challenging thing between yourself and these guys to connect on. Is it kind of the scramble. Plays in figuring out where you want guys to go. How how they wanna come back to you because it seemed like on that second downplay. Jerry was a little frustrated when right before he converted third. Sixteen that you guys weren't able to on that one. What's that part of the equation. Like yeah it was much as you can preach being game speed and practice. Everyone hits a little different. Strive to get onto a game feel and now. Just we're adding rats every single game. We go out there. Practice rep surveying gordon very valuable but realize gametime decisions plays needs to be made without a doubt. The must style thing you can ask for. And that's why hopefully this is a big step for us this last week and to be able to take into this weekend and just be confident. Offense often Line quarterback running the whole whole deal. That's what we're looking for us today in practice out. Firemen tally in taken into this week. And hopefully keep building on these live. Rupp's keep didn't mentioned relationship with pat shurmur obviously relationship between acute playcaller super important. How is that progress throughout the year deepened on on a personal level. trust level. And you guys do you guys do anything krona viruses. Make things weird but to to get to know each other more on a personal level. Yeah we we try to the beginning and then all the crackdowns of rules in asking for meaning outside of silly. We kind of try to stay away from that. We both want to be in the building as long as we can and getting a tell us a little probably not being gets worse. Being in the building are released. It was a lot like going into a tuesday on waiting to get the game plan Like i have a pretty good idea. What's gonna come my way after washington on monday of what the defense doesn't rebound play spurs weeks was a roll of dice for male. Wasn't exactly sure what we'd be calling her reminds. Ob internet game now going into this week. The ideal on what. We're gonna call what we're really liking and sure enough. I was. I was right on most of what came my way that makes you feel it just makes me a little more relaxed getting on the same age. That's exciting to see that this early into the season with us together as far as games that i've actually played and we're kind of all right. Let's get to ryan atteridgeville before we do. I wanna remind you about chug water. Chilly chilly dot com use. Promo code chug water. Be to save twenty five percent. Jaguar chile is the spice of western. Life you can also find him in the grocer near you but might as well say that twenty five percent again. Juggler chilly dot com slash. Chuck water be k. And i think there's some snow on the horizon here in the forecast at the end of the weekend in the next week so We know that snowy weather and chile make a nice combo so chug water chilly dot com promo code chug water be right edwards part of the award winning duo on broncos country tonight. They won a car broadcaster association award for best night's show at our edwards radio on twitter and then of course. Big part of the broncos pre-game festivities with fred opening line as well as koa fantasy football hour and then he owes our countdown to kickoff so without further ado. Here's my chat with ryan edwards. Right i want to look back at the last game. And also look ahead to the falcons but sort of like everything else in this country other than we know. The election is taking up people's space in their brain but corona virus hitting all time highs the broncos not immune to that we saw john elway. And joe ellis. It was announced contracted corona virus than we hear about. Darren paolo somebody close to shelby. Harris years. Still getting tested because you have to do. Tv stuff at the building. I haven't been getting tested. So i'm not in there as much. But the one thing i noticed from afar and i mentioned this on twitter is the fact that the broncos have had these handful of cases from curtis motzkin to mike in downtown covid protocols. We heard about somebody else in the organization as well and then now the ones in recent weeks with a recent days. I guess from glasgow through the other ones. I just mentioned the broncos should probably be applauded that unlike say the ravens where they had to throw seven guys on the code reserve list. That wants these all seem to be happening in a vacuum. So i guess. Do you share that. Same sentiment with me that that they should be congratulated. If you will and it's not so weird thing to say when people are contracting it but that it's not spreading that these all seem to be their own isolated incidents while i mean i guess i guess the way to look at this is they've done a really good job staying in the intensive protocols and they made that decision weeks ago to just go ahead and do that and i think under the circumstances of what's going on in denver right now what's going on in colorado. That was clearly the right call so you just think about if they would've not done the intensive protocols and they would have kind of kept things as some teams have where you know. You're doing the best you can. But you're not necessarily keeping guys away from each other. Maybe there's a little bit of lax on the masks even out on the practice field. Well then you might see more significant Situations like we're seeing with thursday night football where you have basically none of your wide receivers available the forty niners and then for the packers. They're going to be without several their top running backs. And so for the broncos. Yeah they miss graham glasgow last year our last game and there are some significant moments in that game where you wish you would have had him but at the same time you know you found a way to win and so far you've been able to do a good job mitigating things. Now if you're gonna be without shelby harris. That's that is going to be a bit of a problem but you know you haven't these guys you know be able to go home. You're not doing thirty too many bubbles so some teams are doing those many bubbles where they're having guys go to hotel but in this case you know the guys get to go home so under that circumstance. They're going to be situations. I mean i have my kids going to school and if they come in contact i have to go through you know through the contact tracing and multiple tests just to make sure that you know i didn't contract it and that's kind of what we have to do. Yeah and so. I just hope that they continue to stay diligent. There's no reason to think that they won't i guess and i'm not asking you to predict future but just kind of gut feeling. Do we think we'll see some bubbles because there hasn't been a lot of real talk about other than the idea that playoff bubble could happen at the same time. I don't know when a plant bubble would necessarily start because the one thing that feels inevitable to me as we eighteen of not even weeks eighteen and nineteen so. I know that they're taking it. But i think they want to wait until at least december or later than that later into december to actually try to enact these bubbles. Yup i don't think they're gonna do anything like that. But i. i understand the arguments for it. We've kind of come out again from our show from broncos country tonight most of the time talking about as the many bubbles each team trying to institute that but as far as a league wide bubble. You're right. I guess logistics of that. Just don't make a lot of sense. Based on the sheer volume of people that would have to be bubbled. Now when you get into playoffs shrink your entire field down to fourteen teams. You can sit. Spread those out because you're going to different conferences until you get to the super bowl so there's some logistics that they could work out but again you know. We're projecting onto what will be january. And at this point could be worse. It could be the same. Maybe there's a little bit of improvement. I mean i would assume not based on you know kind of the trends in the fact that we're in the coldest weather months and for the virus epidemiologist but for the virus. I'm told the cold months of the worst so Under those circumstances i could see there being a little bit more momentum for a bubble for the play offs. But i don't think we're gonna see anything like that short of the season on the brink. I don't think we're seeing anything like that with the teams in the regular season and so speaking of the playoffs. For about three quarters on sunday everyone thought that blouse where a pipe dream for the broncos or completely just an afterthought and it was is drew. Lock done pat shurmur going to be one and done and they'll be going to a six offensive coordinator in six years. Who could you trade. At the trade deadline corrine jackson potentially tradable as anyone else that you could move and get some value back on. And then lo and behold they have one of the great comeback said any of us have ever seen certainly in recent years and definitely the best ones since peyton manning that same charges franchise on monday night there and twenty twelve and so i guess before we specifically break down the game. And and look ahead to the falcons. What a difference a day makes what a difference a quartermaine really from that phillip lindsay touchdown on. Now you're talking about hey go into atlanta all of a sudden five hundred you can get that win and that six or seven blouse bot doesn't seem out of reach at all. It seems almost like ability but of real very realistic possibility. Well it kind of goes back to the any given sunday adage of you know it's a game of inches right that we always say it's gate what's also a game a seconds. In this case you score a touchdown with one second left on the the play clock and even if it had gone down. Zeros was defensive penalty. They would play either way. But you're right. I mean the whole perspective. I mean if cage hammer drops that pass. Let's just say hey. The rookie accidentally takes his focus offer. Second because there's a lot going on or maybe his cheek lands out of bounds. I mean there's so many things and the razor's edge they walk doing. Bryce callahan doesn't come down with the interception. There in the end zone with mike williams will that they get points out of that. They're going to get points out of that. And the broncos lose there's just so many things that happened in that game that were not not repeatable really. I mean you go nine times out of ten in. The chargers probably come away with a win there. But the broncos found away and you're one hundred percent right that the entire focus has changed. The entire perception of the team has changed. I don't think it really should change all that much though in my opinion because you know we've say oftentimes on broncos country tonight that whether it's win or loss you kinda have to talk about the game as close to the same way as you possibly can now. You can add the caveat. Clearly they found a way to win or they found a way to lose or you know. They weren't able to hold onto their their lead. Whatever it is. We've seen plenty of that. But for me i i still feel like okay why. I'm not going to ignore what happened in the first half. I'm not gonna ignore what happened into the third quarter until that phillip lindsay run. I think we have to talk about those things. Not necessarily as but at least part of the whole puzzle because the thing is you're gonna come back from down twenty one points very often the nfl if ever like. I don't think that's going to happen again the rest of the year so you can't make that part of who you are. It's great you did. But let's let's actually focusing on the things that you did well and let's focus on the things that you didn't and try to learn from it and move forward but you're one hundred percent right. I mean it was. They were absolute sellers. By everybody's opinion about the broncos up until that game and then all of a sudden you know on our show people are like. Oh maybe they should be out there you know being buyers and it's like well let's slow down here a little bit. They're not going to be buyers in part because of what the expectation of the salary cap is next year and the expectation that at this point they still wanna see with these young talent developmental year. A little bit what they can do. But yeah you're percent right the. Nfl is a week to week league. Isn't it yeah absolutely. And so two to the point. You made about the way you in ben talking about each game and break it down with without going quarter-by-quarter a play by play. What are a couple of things that you feel really good about that you saw and things that really can concern you. I'll tell you the one that concerns me. And i know you guys have talked about it this week. I think everybody has when not talking about the election. Or corona virus is microcells. Absence was very noticeable. And i think you can just look at the rushing numbers to to see that. So that's the one that stands out to me the most in terms of of all the things that seem fixable or unfixable. You're not getting mike back so that that to me is a problem. You're going to have to figure out how to mitigate and i don't know if that's more sylvester williams or what the answer is but that's the one that jumps out to me the most. Oh absolutely and we talked shelby harris earlier this week about that now. He said he wasn't that concern. He said they'll figure it out but he acknowledged. I think we all can a what a difference it makes to over. Two hundred ten yards rushing against you that that's a problem and the chargers by a lot of the stats lot. Metrics should have won that game and we know that too. So it's it's kind of a an interesting point you know in a win. You get a chance to work on those things in a loss become ono. This team is sunk and clearly. Were looking at this team in a very different perspective and very different light That that is concerning for sure. Because you're talking about you. Know the next several teams. There are teams. They can beat you on the ground and be really in the. Nfl of eighteen can beat you on the ground but the fact is if you allow them to have a running game. Let's say against the falcons. If they were able to get todd gurley going on the ground. Well all of a sudden matt ryan becomes more dangerous. And i don't and i'm not a huge matt ryan guy. But he's got a bevy of targets out there including a hall of famer. Julio jones that i mean you you just don't want to get him involved in the game if you're to focus so much attention on the run game but i mean yeah. I'd say that. I was a little concerned about how they were able to run the ball. The first half you two yards rushing. That just can't happen. I'm your whether your home road doesn't really matter you just. You just can't have that kind of output. You've got to be better again. That might be where graham glasgow was missed in part there. You don't you don't have a lot of athleticism already on the right side of the offensive line with dotson so when you miss graham glasgow who who is starting caliber offense garden. This league Uh sean is a backup guard in this league. It's going to take a hit there. But i wanna see more consistent production overall from the offense but immediately i wanna see consistent production from the run game it was great to phillip lindsay ripped off fifty five yard. But then you only a hundred yards beyond eight or something like that in the game and that's including a fifty five yard run in there so she's got to be more consistent. That's going to help drew lock. That's gonna help the entire offense okay so then beyond getting the win and exciting comeback. What things do you like. They did well or what. What do you think they did well the that they can continue to build on. Well i mean. I think you you look at that. Fourth quarter and they were able to keep drew lock upright. I mean it was interesting that the chargers decided to stop blitzing in the fourth quarter They only blissed in one time but he had almost three seconds to pass in the entire fourth quarter the chargers recast joey bosa to hurt so that changes things for them for sure. Gregg jarrett is gonna be a challenge up the middle So you know it's not like it's gonna you know again. It's not like it gets easier. You know you got the raiders. They've got plenty of pass rush out there. Miami's been playing really good defense. So i i mean i'm saying things to build on like you were able to somehow give drew lock time. How did you do that. Do you need to go more twelve personnel at two tight ends in there you know. Do you need to give more options in in the past with running backs out of the backfield more of do a little more chip and release with your tight ends or running backs. So there's certain things that have happened in the fourth quarter. The rhythm the uptempo. I think everybody's been talking about that Watching drew lock kinda get out there and just kind of play football. It seemed like that's something that maybe you can build on But you saw you saw your young playmaker making plays and you did all this without tim. Patrick and courtland sutton unique contested. Catch guys in this offense Albert okwuegbunam ken be one of those guys but he can't recreate what you're getting with tim. Patrick or what you get with courtland sutton. So there's certain things you absolutely can build on that fourth quarter. I looking forward to seeing what they use of that going forward. Maybe they discovered something or maybe they kind of go back to what they were doing. But i think you can. We can all very plainly see when you have what fifty three total offensive yards in the first half. I think we can very plainly see that what they were doing in the first half into the third quarter wasn't working whatsoever so that there needs to be a little bit of tweaking there and maybe they discovered something well in. What do you think it'll take an. I don't know if he's just waiting to unleash. And maybe fans ankles part of it but when will we see more if any. And i haven't tracked the snaps. Alberto and and noah fant together because i think that will certainly stresa hell out of the defense regardless of. Who's on the outside and if it is a healthy. Tim patrick or even. It's judy and hamler daesean hamilton. One of those guys but those two tight ends in the middle there a problem when they're out there on their own let alone they'd be out there at the same time. I would love to see more. I think a lot of people love to see more of it especially as we're talking about more twelve personnel. I mean it's just not something. Pat shurmur does a lot of we know he likes to go eleven. He likes to go three wide and i wonder if you know. His his marriage to the eleven personnel will slow that possibility. But you know with albert. Oh gosh sixteen snaps. He made a lot of those snaps. Drew two huge is got a touchdown. So i feel like just. His play is going to warrant his usage. His play is going to warrant more opportunities for him in the red zone more opportunities on the field and and i think we're all kind of excited to see what that looks like. It just seems to be kind of a slow build but the reminder comes back to me again now every team is dealing with this but the broncos really did miss those preseason games some of those things that we could have figured out in those games if albert okwuegbunam puts on a show in preseason undeniable at that point. You're going to put him on the field as much you can't. He didn't get a chance to play until the patriots game like that was his first game in his. Nfl career. as you know but it's one of those things like if you would have been a star in the preseason games well it would have been kind of tough to keep them off the field but they were able to keep off the field because you know he was still rehabbing a little bit and they didn't necessarily need them now. They need him. They do need him. And i think i'm with you man. I'd like to see more well and quickly because we don't need to buy this bogged down in jake butt talk but He heads to. I are looks like they're gonna bring in troy. Fema golly if he can get through all the cove protocols you have a guy familiar not only with everything you do in the building from a just a team philosophy standpoint he also obviously was part of your entire offseason and preseason program before the broncos decided to to not make him part of their fifty three and he chose to to look elsewhere for opportunities. It's a bummer. For jake but i. I've been told that he's going to do all. He can to to be backed by the saints game. And you know you wanna see the kid play a little and have some success right. He had a chance. Obviously in the opener against the titans. He got him in the hero if one play by by the titans defense but just on a personal level. It's it's a bummer. That that jake get on track here and now it's kinda like the trains leaving the station where albert owes headed. And what you have. In noah fant and the fact they still are going to keep using nick vannett. There's seems to be almost no opportunity. Barring outside of injuries for jake butt to get back on track when he's healthy. I mean it's just what the nfl is right. I mean you you have just whatever situations whatever scenarios a path to success in the nfl whether you're a an early draft pick or late traffic or not drafted at all you get a shot you. Everybody gets a shot and one of the nice things about the the nfl especially about the broncos. Is you know if you can play. They'll put you on the field. Jake butt hasn't had chance to stay on the field though to show he can play. We just know from college that he has that ability and he would have likely gone earlier in the draft. If it weren't for those unfortunate injuries he suffered in the ball game. I of course. Yeah for a personal level. You'd love to see more Opportunities for him. But you're right at this point. I mean they've transit back to back Drafts with tight ends. You know one. In the first round one of the fourth round and both of those guys are producing on the field right now and then they bring in another tight end in free agency as you mentioned nick vannett. It's it's just a tough to see the field Under those circumstances. I mean if i'm if i'm jake body from advising jake body say just sorta hanging there. That's all you can do. That's all he's been doing and ignore try to keep the writing mind mindset about this whole thing There's you can't control what which can't control at this point you can do is just be healthy. And if comes a little banged up at some point then you get a shot and then he gets to do something with it but until then unfortunately The depth charge pretty clear right now and those guys are all producing night. So you touched. On the falcons. Little bit with the the matchup headache that julio jones can be in in matt ryan getting going. Their offense isn't terrible and help they play the cowboys. Any any offensive stats. But they're six in yards per game. They're second in passing yards They haven't been intercepted very much. Or or put the ball on the ground Have todd gurley rushing the ball. I think better than we've seen. Maybe here since the super bowl or even leading up to this role not last stretch where it seemed like there was something wrong with his knee and yet you factor in all their sketches not just julio jones. But what's the the thing that that really concerns you. Most i guess would be the broncos key to success in slowing that down and stealing a win in. Murphy's been stadium on sunday. Well i mean. I think you have to point to their offense. I'm i'm not really all that impressed with their defense and made sure that they definitely have some ability there as image with gregg jarrett. They can get you up the middle but their offense as you mentioned. I mean we know how prolific it can be. You know. I mean they don't they don't really throw a lot of interceptions you know. They've only had four interceptions seven. Total giveaways their top ten in that. So it's not like there's going to be a ton of opportunities to get turnovers on falcons. The one thing that i do like the matchup and i think this one is is one that needs to be kinda hammered. Home here is. The falcons are one of the worst red zone offenses like for all they do as far as the numbers as you mentioned the the passing yards per game points per game. They're twenty six which pretty good. They're twenty seven th in the league and red zone and the broncos of course on defense our third there forty eight percent. they don't allow a lot of conversion. so what the rocco's kind of has to be here as it relates to the match up to watch at least. Here's where breaking down is. Can the broncos defense be the ben dope break defense that they've been and that's what they typically rs you look at the numbers if they can be that they can keep the falcons out of the red zone or keep them keeping kicking field goals. Then it's up to the office to play the complementary football and get it in the end zone. Because meanwhile the falcons defense gives up seventy four percent completion or sorry. Seventy four percent conversion in the red zone twenty nine in the nfl and they're also yards per play their dead last six point five six which is a huge turning factor so the broncos will be able to move the ball on the offensive side of the ball they just got to play complementary football in this one and they get they have to score the points when they get there and simultaneously. Not let the falcons with that high flying offense moved the ball into the end zone and and get conversions. But like i said matchups on here at least on paper. Do do get the broncos a shot in this one and we'll just see if they can play with the momentum that they gained off the chargers win then and the confidence for for those young guys. Four k j handler can jerry. Jeudy had his first. You know really consistently huge game. I guess it'd be the best way to to characterize it. Can alberto get going. Even more noah fant obviously be a big part of that. Because the falcons pass offense pass defense is terrible there rush events actually six in the league and they're still dead last in yards per play. Lets you know how bad their past events is. Somehow it's thirty first someone's worse i guess in better run. Defensive is gonna do the math on that. Because i'm not sure who's ranked thirty second in passing yards and i guess higher in rushing to to somehow be better than the them by one the broncos red zone offense is actually worse than the falcons at twenty nine th in the league. But as bad as a falcons red zone. Da's maybe the broncos can improve those numbers weekly away. The broncos red zone problems we y you know like explaining away matt ryan and julio jones at calvin ridley and hayden hearst and todd gurley explaining away and their offense of line is actually a pretty good offensive line explaining all of that and you're twenty seven and red zone like that that's and you. You scored still scored twenty six points per game. Like that's kind of a remarkable to score twenty six points per game be top thirteen in the league and yet your red zone is one of the worst i mean but like i said it basically just shows that they they moved. The ball will like the. They're going to move the ball. That's just that's just kind of what it is. You just have to get them into third down when you get the red zone. And they're probably not go. At least. the numbers supported it. Probably not going to convert. You gotta watch out for young way coup. Who has found a home found his footing so to speak there. So the broncos are anywhere from three and a half four point dogs. I think it's back down to three and a half that. I saw at least a little while ago. When i checked draftkings they were four. I think on tuesday How do you see how do you see it shaking out. I i like the broncos road dogs but we know there should be some fans there because georgia of course lets you know plenty of fans in the stands for college and pro games so what you see unfolding on sunday. I like the broncos of the money line here. I think that that is a good. I mean if you want the points. I think there's something wrong with that. An enemy the points are always weird thing especially with rogane but the nfl's weird this year you know. The road games aren't what they used to be. So it's kinda hard to because like if this game was at home. Let's just you know. Spend it that way is this game was at home. It would probably be a pick em pretty close to it. But roy teams are basically kind of like even with the home teams like this. You're as really shown to be a significant home advantage. I think the last time. I looked i think before this last weekend. It was fifty three fifty one in one so home home. Advantage is minuscule so it's just funny to me that we have these conversations about home versus road. I mean you have the travel. Sure that's that's an early game but at the same time it hasn't really shown to be a significant advantage to be home or away especially home in this case. So i mean i i i look at this game and say i'm going to help some bets out there on the money line. I might have a couple of bets in there just in the points to hedge hedge a little bit but i definitely like the matchups in this game and you know you're just took on a team that choke sore or has problems in the fourth quarter right. The chargers have historically had a lot of problems closing out games. And you're taking on the team that may be the worst in the league at it. Next in the falcons three three games this year or they had to ninety five percent chance to win in the fourth quarter and they lost those games. I mean that's one of those chargers. Yeah right right and you take it to them and you see what happens. And so that's the thing is could the broncos take it to them go after them. And then we'll the falcons buckle under the pressure of ono. Here we go again. Because that's what happened to. The chargers and broncos got the benefit of it all ryan. I appreciate the time. We'll be listening on broncos country tonight and then of course all the stuff you do on pre-game from the bet fred opening line to the fantasy football hour and then of course hosting countdown to kickoff to take right up to kick off in atlanta. This week i appreciate the time and now we'll catch up with him anytime about. That'll do it for us here. On the broncos daily podcast tomorrow football. Friday we will go behind enemy lines with a man carl dukes. He is the afternoon host at ninety two nine. The game Been atlanta long. Long time. They carry the falcons game so he will give us. Insights on everything falcons and how crazy a week. It's been in georgia with the election Centering so much of their focus on what's going on down there. But he will break down the falcons and how the matchup looks for the broncos and falcon so enjoy the rest of your thursday. And we'll get you off right. And the broncos daily podcast.

broncos falcons Shelby harris shurmur pat shurmur football graham glasgow phillip lindsay drew twenty five percent packers niners brandon krisztal ramseys seventy one percent Seventy percent rick lewis pursell eleven percent drew lock
JonBenet Ramsey ////// Little Miss Christmas

True Crime Garage

56:27 min | 1 year ago

JonBenet Ramsey ////// Little Miss Christmas

"Entered oozing the Jeffrey Epstein new. A new podcast from CNN hosted by Vicki Ward. The seven episode series takes you behind the scenes to hear one of of a kind account of Epstein and individual. Who's more myth than man Vicky Ward has been reporting on Jeffrey Epstein for almost two decades and takes listeners beyond the headlines to explore Jeffrey Epstein really was where he got his money and the circumstances surrounding his death subscribed to the Jeffrey Epstein? I knew wherever you get your podcast from Sky Dance. Interactive comes the new podcast series which serves as a prologue to the studios upcoming VR title. The walking dead saints and Sinners supernatural skeptics. Guy To New Orleans and follow. Sarah Bennett the host of a local radio series investigating New Orleans most popular paranormal tales as she uncovers the surge of walkers taking over the city and becomes trapped in one a New Orleans. Most notorious Torius landmarks the Laroche House supernatural skeptics. Guide to New Orleans available on Apple. PODCAST spotify Stitcher Iheartradio you tune in plus Alexa or at Vr. Walking Dead Dot Com Jon Benet Ramsey was strangled with a little Miss Colorado Jon benet Ramsey unknown intruder robin the Ramsey interview. The parents. John Ramsden did anybody more than fund out to with responsible. It would be very few little girls as famous as blond six year year. Old Jon Benet Patricia Ramsey. She was born in Atlanta Georgia on August. Sixth Nineteen Ninety two parents. Jon Benet Ramsey and Patricia Ann. Dan Ramsey her name is unique as it was was a combination of her father's first and middle names. Her Father John was a wealthy businessman and her mother. Patsy was a former beauty queen. John Ramsey was a smart calculated and determined man. He graduated from Michigan State University in Nineteen Sixty thirty six with an electrical engineering degree. Five years later a masters in Business Administration from MSU. John was married before before he and his first wife had three children. Elizabeth Melinda and John Andrew but the to divorce in one thousand nine hundred seventy eight on November fifth nineteen eighty he married. What many considered to be the woman of his dreams twenty-three-year-old Patricia and Paul Yup better known as Patsy? Patsy attended West Virginia University and graduated with a BA in journalism and nineteen seventy eight just a year before four. She won the Miss West Virginia beauty title in Nineteen Seventy seven on January twenty seventh nineteen eighty-seven Patsy gave birth to the couple's pulls first child Burke Ramsey then three and a half years later they welcomed their second child. Jon Benet in Nineteen Ninety one one. The family moved to Boulder Colorado for John's business access graphics. A little background here. John was extremely hard working and driven. He was an entrepreneur. He started a computer company in the eighties. Eventually his company and two other companies merged nineteen eighty-eight this formed access this graphics the company was then sold to Lockheed Martin in Nineteen ninety-one John became the chief executive officer and president went up access graphics thus sparking the family to set up shop and Beautiful Boulder Colorado the ramseys purchased a seven thousand square foot. Home the address. Seven fifty five Fifteenth Street Boulder Colorado. The home was purchased for five hundred thousand dollars. Some reports state eight. The home is eleven thousand square feet. But I believe that would include. Maybe the basement balconies and other areas. We all know how the real estate listing game works they also did a very extensive renovation on the property as well speaking of which I will do my best impression. Here it's a beautiful. Red Brick Tudor style home built in nineteen twenty seven. There are four floors including the basement. The basement is made up of a series of small rooms the home it features two staircases one traditional and one spiral there are five bedrooms burke and John Benes rooms are located on the second second story. Job As room is complete with its own bathroom and balcony. The master suite is above the children's rooms located on the third story. The ramseys Patsy in particular loved this House. The ramseys were riding pretty high but unfortunately life is often a series of peaks and valleys sadly on January Eighth Nineteen ninety-two John Ramsey's oldest daughter. From his first marriage Elizabeth Ramsay was killed in an automobile automobile accident in Chicago Illinois. She was just twenty two years old on December twenty third nineteen ninety-two. The ramseys purchased a one thousand seven hundred in thirty one square foot vacation home in Charlevoix Michigan for three hundred and thirty six thousand dollars for those unfamiliar. This is an absolutely a beautiful area. Northern Michigan right along Lake Michigan absolutely gorgeous in June of ninety three. Patsy Ramsey is diagnosed with breast cancer. Sir For this. She will receive exams at the Charlevoix Community Hospital and treatments in Maryland. Now we're going to go through a pretty thorough timeline for for the Ramsey family. Some of these events may seem trivial however given the crime that we know is going to occur these items were included in this time. Line line because of the possibilities and the suspicions surrounding this case in Nineteen ninety-four seven-year-old Burke hits his little sister Zhabei on the cheek with a golf club. Well let's be clear. This is not a situation where burke decided. I don't like you and I'm going to smash smashing the face with a golf club. This was purely an accident. This wasn't like the time my brother hit me in the back with a baseball bat because he was trying to kill me. I questioned this at first glance because we do know that children siblings will fight with one another and they can be quite vicious dishes at times plus when they're very young as they would be in this situation. It's an impulsive thing to pick up a club and hit your sister your brother other with because they did something mean to you. I am burke only being seven years old. He won't be thinking if I hit her in the face with a golf club. I could possibly kill her right. This could have lasting consequences however everything that we could find only indicates that this was just an accident accident and believe it or not in my own life. I've experienced a situation where one of my friends accidentally hit another friend in the the face with a golf club and the vase on the back swing because the person was standing too close as the other person was taking swing. We don't have the details of of this specific accident however again everything indicates that it was just that an accident right but it was pretty vicious. Because Jon benet would be left with scar a short time later. Johnny underwent plastic surgery at a surgeon in Denver this to correct that scar on the left cheek from from the golf club. Incident and December of nineteen ninety four. The ramseys giant beautiful home is one of just seven homes in the area to be included in the historic homes for the holidays tour. This is important for a few reasons mainly this means that approximately fifteen hundred people will participate dissipate in a tour of the ramseys property and the house in April of one thousand nine hundred five four year old Jon Benet Ramsey wins the Colorado auto state all star. Kids paget out. She will participate and win several pageants. I'm not going to go through all of them captain. Frankly when research searched well you get a bunch of different information so I will just stick to the ones that I can confirm. or at least have double-checked October of Nineteen ninety-five was a happy and exciting month. For the Ramsey family. Jon Benet was crowned Little Miss Colorado Sunburst and John Ramsay was the winner of the Entrepreneur of distinction award but to be clear. I don't think like her whole family was revolved around her winning something. I think it was nice. When she wan- they devoted a lot of time doing it but I don't think it made the families year if she got some award regarding John Ramsey's he's business keep in mind? Access graphics is doing very well in the company is growing in sales and staff quite rapidly. Then it was patsies turned to receive some recognition. This came when the April nineteen ninety-six issue of Women's magazine Profiled Patsy Ramsey this article of course will include a lot of her personal information but also a lot of personal information about John and the kids then in July of Nineteen ninety-six. Jon Benet one. America's royal tiny miss the following month. She finishes second and the the Sunburst National Pageant. This pageant was held in Atlanta Georgia. On Saturday November thirtieth John Ramsey host host a surprise fortieth birthday party for his wife of sixteen years and this is truly a surprise as her actual birthday is not until December twenty ninth. This was a big fortieth birthday celebration for Patsy held at the Palace Hotel in Denver is laws speculation though that she was not looking forward to this time and was actually very upset about turning forty then on December six during the lights of December parade. Jon Tape appeared on her own little Miss Colorado float. This is an annual parade where spectators enjoy floats created and decorated by local businesses churches and civic groups. The parade often includes marching bands fire engines holiday carolers and an appearance by Santa Claus. This takes place in downtown. Boulder in Nineteen ninety-six Burke was in this parade as well on Friday December thirteenth. There is is a big holiday party at the Ramsey home. This is attended by more than one hundred and fifty of their friends from Church so again just pointing out another event then at their house with a lot of guest so what we are quickly learning is this is a house that has many people who have been in and is often opened up too many guests over just the few years that they have owned the home. Four days later on the seventeenth the six year old was crowned Colorado's. Those little Miss Christmas. This is one of the larger pageants. She has participated in and certainly in achieving moment and and in hindsight really kind of just an eerie weird thing. The job in a would be named the nineteen ninety-six Little Miss Christmas. Now we don't have a date but I want to make sure that we include this here. There's a report that this took place some time. In December uh of ninety six and this comes from a statement to law enforcement at some time. In December. Jon Benet tells a gardener. This is Brian Brian Scott about her father John Ramsey. She says I really Miss Him and I wish he was around more. Yeah he's working pretty hard probably probably traveling a lot and later reported that his net worth at this time would be roughly six point. Four Million Dollars December twentieth was a busy day for the ramseys on two fronts. One access graphics had a luncheon party and a celebration for more than three hundred employees at the Hotel Bowl Dorado and to to. Jon Benet participates in a school performance at high peaks. Elementary School patsy attends the performance the access graphics luncheon and the performance at the school are going on at the same time so patsy is not present for the business celebration because she is at the school. Now it's important to keep in mind mind that one of these events could be tied to job in as death for any number of reasons truth be told none of us really know for sure. Here's an excerpt excerpt from the book death of innocence authored by John and Patsy Ramsey in the book John says early in December nineteen ninety-six. Tom Carson Zain came to my office. John I want you to look at these figures. I looked up at him standing at the door with a handful of papers as best as I can tell. We're going to hit the billion dollar sales mark and a couple of days. It's a big milestone a billion dollars. My mouth dropped. I know we. We're close but I didn't think we were there yet. It's on top of US smile. Probably in a couple of days. I think we should do something to celebrate right. I agreed if for no other reason than to congratulate our employees. A billion dollars in sales and six hundred employees worldwide wide was a big milestone for access graphics. One of our public relations. People thought we should also contact the newspaper to announce our success success. I had a gut reaction that the press release wasn't a good idea. I didn't want that kind of visibility outside of the business still I agreed since our employees deserved the recognition. Now I wonder if this publicity might have attracted the attention attention of the killer or further irritated the person if he or she had a grudge against big business access graphics or me note note. John's memory of this party in the book states that the luncheon was held on December sixteenth. According to the Daily Camera Business Magazine this celebration was held on December twentieth. John did a phone interview regarding the company's success and on December twenty first the daily Camera Business Magazine publishes pushes the article on axs graphics reaching one billion dollars in sales. All right. So why are we going with semper. Twentieth and not December sixteenth. That's a good question. We have a couple of reasons for that one. We know that the luncheon and the school performance occurred on the same day. We have statements saying that the performance the school performance was on the twentieth and we also have the fact that the daily camera business magazine article all comes out that same year. I mean just the day after the party. John's book does not come out until years later. And he's going off of memory on December somber twenty-second Jon. Benet Ramsey is going to be in a beauty pageant and the Southwest Plaza Mall. This is the one that she sings rocking around the Christmas tree and and she has a toy saxophone sometime. In late December the Ramsey family sent out their annual Christmas card with the Ramsey family updates. It's for their loved ones. The nineteen ninety-six Christmas newsletter. Reads as follows. Do your friends and family. It's been in another busy year at the Ramsey household. Can't believe it's almost over and time to start again. Melinda twenty four graduated from Medical College of Georgia and is working and pediatric ICU. Kenny Stone Hospital in Atlanta John John Andrew Twenty Sophomore at the University of Colorado. Burke is busy fourth grader where he really shines minds in math and spelling. He played flag football. This fall and is currently on a basketball bench. His Little League team was number one. He's lost just about all of his baby teeth so I'm sure we'll be seeing the orthodontist in nineteen ninety seven Jon. Benet is enjoying her first first year in real school. Kindergarten in the core knowledge program is fast paced and five full days a week. She has already been moved ahead Ed. To first grade math she continues to enjoy participating in talent and modeling pageants. She was named America's royal tiny missed last summer. DUMBER and is Colorado's little Miss Christmas. Her teacher says she is so outgoing that she will never have trouble delivering an oral a book report Jon is always on the go. Traveling hither and Yon Access recently celebrated its one billion dollar mark in sales. So He's pretty happy he and his crew were underway in the Port Huron to mackinac island yacht race in July for had to pull out midway due to lack of wind. Can you believe that. But his real love is the new old looking boat grand season which he spent months designing. I spend most of my free time working in the school and doing volunteer work. The charlevoix house was on the home. Tour in July will likely appear in one of the better homes and gardens publications in Nineteen ninety-seven on a recent trip to NYC my friend and I appeared among the throng of fans on the today show at roker and Brian actually talked to us. We were on camera camera for a few fleeting moments. We are all enjoying continued. Good health and look forward to seeing you in Nineteen ninety-seven one final note. Thank you to all of my friends and my dear husband for surprising me with the biggest most outrageous fortieth birthday bash. I've ever had. We'll be spending my actual birthday on the Disney big red boat over the new year. Merry Christmas much. Love the rams I I kind of find this whole ritual that people do with the updating of the families kind of Dushi. Well I feel like this is a very upper class. Typical holiday thing update everybody with a newsletter. I've never and probably will never experience having to put one of these letters together. Yeah being just a regular blue collar guy myself. What jumps out to me? Is that episode of everybody. Loves Raymond where they write a bunch of really nice stuff about themselves. That's not true but here everything that patsy. I'm assuming patsy puts us together as it sounds you know she says spend most of my free time it really points due to her upbringing and how polished and Pau she really is. Yeah and I everything that she has put here is true true. And it's just it's just interesting to see how the other half lives Wa does. Seems like they should get into their deuce canoe and paddle down Vanity River. I've never lived far from family and friends. So maybe this is more common than what I am aware of on December twenty third. This is just two days as before Christmas. The ramseys hosted a Christmas party with approximately thirty guests attending and with former journalism. Professor Bill mcreynolds adults. Playing Santa Claus. mcreynolds was a Ramsey family friend. Probably one of the more alarming details in this timeline during the Ramsey's Christmas party at six forty seven. PM someone attending the Party placed a nine one one call which was answered by police dispatcher. Therese Hillary the caller hung up without saying anything police called back but when they did no one answered and the call all was picked up by the ramseys answering machine because of this an officer goes to the home at six fifty four pm the officer knocks on the door and is invited in and then leaves it seven Oh nine. PM This after being assured that there was no emergency. This has made people. Speculate was the perpetrator of this crime at this party and calling nine one one to see how fast somebody would respond to nine one one call. This is one of those items that you you look at it and you just go. What is going on here because as you pointed out it could mean something very big to this case and to the investigation right if in fact what you said? And what people have speculated toward is is true that means the killer is at this party but with somebody that worked with the killer is at this party right but you also have a lot of kids running around. Is it possible that one of them just picked up the phone and dialed nine one one and the never confessed to it because they don't WanNa get in trouble. There is a guest list that you can find online. I have reviewed it myself. Don't care to go into it here as it sounds quite boring to just read off a list of names. The other thing I question though to captain is what kind of staff was working this party. Would we have had people helping out whether it be caterers or for somebody answering the door. Valeting cars you know so it could extend beyond the guest list for whoever called nine one one. I'm with you I. I think that there's a very likely possibility that with all these kids running around one of the older kids wants to do something funny in front of the younger kids us and calls nine one one. You know get scared and hangs up one. There's two other things. Some people have nine one one on speed. Dial so you have people working party hardy. Did somebody pick up the phone to call. This is nineteen ninety six. They don't have cell phones. Most people don't have cell phone. So did somebody working the party go to make a call. Aw hit the wrong button and it speed dialed nine one one. That's something I couldn't find information from on the Internet. The other thing too one of my hi speculations. And we'll have to get into this later. Is it possible that Little Jon Benet Ramsey herself called nine one one because because something happened at that part. There's something interfering with your happiness or preventing you from achieving your goals better help online. Counseling can help better. Help offers offers licensed professional counselors who specialize in issues such as depression anxiety relationships trauma anger family conflicts. LGBT matters matters grief self esteem and more connect with your professional counselor that saving private online environment. Get help at your own time in at your own pace anything and that you share is completely confidential. And it's so convenient you can schedule secure video or phone sections as well as chat and text with your therapist. If for some reason you're not happy. Be With her counselor there. You can request a new one anytime for no additional charge. Best of all. It's a truly affordable option. Our listeners even get ten percent off your first month with a discount code garage so why not get started today go to better help dot com slash garage than simply fill out a questionnaire to help them. Assess your needs it match with the counselor. You'll love that's better help dot com slash Karaj. No need to interrupt your workday or fight traffic to get to the post office anything that you can due at the post office she can do at stamps. Dot Com whether you're a small office sending invoices or even a warehouse sending thousands of packages a day. You'll love love stamps. Dot Com simply. Use Your computer to print official. US postage twenty four seven for any letter N. e. package any class of male anywhere. You you want to send it once your meals ready. Just hand it to your mail carrier or drop it in the mailbox was dams dot com. You also get five cents off every first class class stamp and up to forty percent off priority mail not to mention. It's a fraction of cause of those expensive postage meters. Don't spend a minute of your holiday season season at the post office this year. SIGN UP FOR STAMPS DOT COM with my Promo Code Garage and get a special offer that includes a four week. Trial plus free postage postage and a digital scale no long term commitments or contracts. Just go to stamps. Dot Com. Click on the microphone at the top of the homepage and type in garage which that stamps dot com enter garage. Stay calm is a must for any small business owner stamps dot com. Never go to the post office again. Would you buy a t shirt for fifty dollars of new. It only costs seven to make we won it. Ever Lane only makes premium essentials using the finest materials without traditional markups. They want you to know what you're paying for. And why so. They're radically transparent with their real costs in every step in their process from the materials materials they use to the ethical factories. They work with not to mention essentials like they're cotton crew t-shirt xactly what they should be versatile tiles simple stylish and made from quality materials ever lanes close look better cost less and lasts longer. Everybody's checking out ever lane in their learning whatever lane products have to offer. They are simply fantastic. They have one hundred percent greater Kashmir quality cotton basics sustainable silks premium Japanese denim made from the world's cleanest Denim factory I myself. I'm an athletic fit jeans guy. I got my denims from ever Elaine. I also have the twiddle weekender bag which is by far my favorite bag that I've ever owned and right now you can check out our personalized collection at ever lane dot com slash garage. Plus you'll get free shipping on your first order that's ever lane dot com slash garage ever lane dot com slash garage. All right. We're back. Cheers mates cheers captain. And today we are drinking CITRA. Noel hoppy Holiday Ale by Columbus Brewing Company. This is an American strong Ale strong enough for even the best holiday parties. Av seven point three percent garage grade four and a quarter bottle caps five. Thank you to everyone who has donated to the beer fund in two thousand nineteen happy holidays and just to be clear about this party. Were not for sure. It's been reported multiple ways that the person clean Santa Clause got a tour of the house from Jon. Benet Ramsey. Some people speculate that happened in Nineteen Ninety six. Some people say that happened in nineteen ninety five so bill mcreynolds was considered a family friend of the ramseys and someone that he he wasn't just somebody that was hired to play Santa Claus. They they knew this man on some level Ryan. He had played Santa Claus at their holiday party before four. And as you said it's a bit confusing on the stories that you hear even over twenty years later where some people will say Jon Benet gave Bill mcreynolds a tour of the home at some point during the party on in Nineteen ninety-six. Some people say that may may have happened in one thousand nine hundred five. We also have a situation where it is said. That Jon Benet gave Bill mcreynolds a gift and he would say years later that out of all the times that he played Santa Claus at of all the parties that he attended as Santa Claus. That Jon Benet was the only child to give him a gift again. He's receiving this gift a couple of days before her death. So that's something that obviously would stick out to you other and the only other gift that he probably ever got was like maybe a stinky lap from some dirty the kid on Christmas Eve December twenty four th. An article appeared in the daily camera regarding the Ramsey's Christmas party. Apparently this daily daily camera is just watching and reporting everything going on in the Ramsey's world during the day on December twenty fourth. Jon benet played at a friend's home. This is Megan Kostunica's house and told Megan's mother Barbara about a secret. visit it from Santa. This wasn't just her running up in saying hey Santa's going to visit me. There was a discussion. Had between Megan's mother Barbara and Little Jon Benet Barbara questioned. Jon Benet as to win. Santa was going to pay her. The secret visit. Is it because we are on Christmas Eve. You can imagine the natural conversation that would be had adult in a small child. The adult is going to say something to the effect of. Yes you've been good all year and when you go to bed tonight Santa's going to visit you and when you wake up you're going to find all your presents under under the tree through this conversation. What Barbara would learn? Is that Jon. benet explains to her. No I'm not talking about you. You know she wasn't talking about the traditional visit from Santa Claus as we all know it right That's already going to happen. She Says No. This is going to be a a secret visit after Christmas And of course at the time this doesn't seem to be anything out of the ordinary for Barbara or restraint right. It would only be until a few days later that this is really going to set off some alarm bells one. That's what's so difficult about this case is so many little points of e came in calm evidence just points of speculation that could mean everything or could made nothing at all. The other thing to hear captain is. I'm sure there's a lot of people out there right now. That if they did not know of this detail already their mind. Mind is immediately jumping to Santa Claus. Bill mcreynolds who we just discussed playing Santa Claus at the Ramsey home on the twenty third. I think that's that's a natural fit. We should keep in mind here though. How many Christmas events has this little girl attended? Just in. We'll recent weeks. How many Santa clauses did she come into interaction with? We talked about the parade that she attended that she sat on the float. The main and attraction was Santa Claus. She could've spoke to a Santa Claus there or so- just somebody dressed as Santa Claus right or Santa Claus at the mall or in the mall pageant that she attended there was the school event. This is the second of the Ramsey's Christmas parties and who knows how many parties they attended attended as a family. Right Ballista say that. She spent a little more time than some of the kids with the family. Friend Plane Santa and he just casually Ashley says she she might said something to Mike. Well yeah I know you're going to visit me on Christmas. What but what about after that? He's like aw I'll I'll pay you a special visit. The after Christmas not didn't mean anything but would mean the world to a six year old just like the nine one one call that came from the Ramseys home on the twenty third. This this mention of a secret visit from Santa Claus after Christmas could mean a lot it could mean nothing at all in regards to the investigation and on December twenty fourth later that day the ramseys attended the twilight service at Saint. John's Episcopal Church in Boulder Colorado. Hello around nine PM. John Ramsey retrieves a brand new silver girls bicycle stored at a neighbor's home. This is Joe Barnhill garage any places it under the Christmas Tree Ford Jon Benet and then both John and Patsy Ramsey get stashed Christmas Christmas gifts out from their basement. It's listed here as the basement area and place these under the tree as well. This is interesting for a few reasons one. It shows that at nine pm on the twenty fourth both durant both Ramsey adults. Both parents parents went down into the basement to retrieve these hidden Christmas gifts for the kids frame. Their basement as we mentioned earlier is made up of a series as of rooms there several small rooms in this basement. It's my understanding that the large room was more of a play area now given the size of this home. I don't know that a designated play area means that it was frequented by the children often or if it was just a once in a while type thing or their house is very interesting to me because it's so large but it's so blocked blocked off in little sections. It's almost like a a maze and also when you see pictures or video footage when they had the little towards awards for the houses that Christmas Towards Their House looks immaculate. It looks amazing but but when you see crime scene photos photos of the house it looks every room. Looks like it's an disarray. Looks like to me I would say every room needs to be cleaned every room. I'm need to be organized based off those pictures. So it's a it's a very interesting house. Couple quick thoughts here before we move on captain often you know this was a home built in nineteen twenty seven and often when homes are added to over the years. They end up looking like that where it's A. It's a lot of smaller caller rooms rather than a few giant rooms. Yeah and I also wondered and I couldn't find I. I know that there's blueprints of this House online and I've found like the top floors but I couldn't tell the basement and like you said this house has been added onto but a lot of times the basements are added onto onto. So let's say it's a seven thousand square foot home while that basement only might be fifteen hundred square feet. The reason why pointed out that the basement was a series of rooms as well as question. How often the basement was an actual use by either? The parents and or for the kids is it. My assumption here is that the parents are hiding the gifts from their kids. They could be possibly hiding gifts from one another as well right but just wanted to point out that on Christmas Eve. Both parents state that they went into the basement of that home. Now I question how often the children would be in the basement because we're GONNA have a lot of questions going forward about a very small room. That's well tucked away in this basement. mm-hmm if the kids don't go down there very often. There's no need to hide these gifts to that extent they could have just hid them in the quote unquote play Aroo. Yep As pretty common knowledge that this room that they quote unquote call the wine. Cellar is a room. That was unfinished. It was to be come. A wine. Cellar never happen. And that's often where they would hide gifts because that at least that part of the basement. We know that the kids didn't go to so we we have do. We have something stating that. The the gifts were hidden in this wine cellar. No but what we have from John Ramsey is when he was explaining to the police officers. This is this is what we call the wine cellar. But it's not a Finnish yet. It's GonNa be the wine cellar right now. It's just used for storage. And sometimes we put presence there for the kids on December twenty fifth nineteen ninety-six six. This is around six. AM The ramseys wake up later in an interview. Patsy will say it was six ish. Probably the Ramseys John Patsy Burke and Jon Benet will partake in the normal Christmas morning activities exchanging and opening gifts breakfast. And you know captain. I feel like the Christmas morning. Cup of coffee is the best one of the year. I love when the parents stop everything and say look. We're not opening up anything and and so I get my first cup of coffee right right. Make them wait at noon. John is going to leave the house. This is to go and check on the airplane. A plane keep in mind. They have planned flight for early the next morning sometime between two and three PM John Ramsey returns to the home from checking the plane so the family with the exception of John leaving for a bit. This is pretty much just they really great Christmas Day at home. Now you touched upon something just a few minutes ago where you said when you see the crime scene photos. The House is in disarray. That it's just a mess. Well first off with my standards with two young children in the home and having a the big Christmas I would say a big lavish Christmas because the parents have all kinds of money and they can buy these children all kinds of stuff one would in -ticipant to see a mess especially when they're not hosting anything you know. They've already hosted their Christmas. Get together one would expect to see a mess S.. However I do want to point out that there were several people close relatives of the Ramseys that stated that the house was kind of always a mess even though that the house had a housekeeper and that they had some help that would come in and take care of some things for them? The house was always a mess. Mess this again. In part two young children will do that to a home right but messy house messy mind. I also want to point out that in years past we have video footage of the Ramsey's Christmas on. I believe it was nineteen ninety four and I may be some footage on ninety ninety five. I don't know if that was released to the public. But on nineteen ninety six would they claim as I think woke up and the battery was dead of the camcorder. So that's why they didn't take a video that day between five and six. PM The ramseys left their house. This is all four of them John Patsy Burke and Jon Benet and they are in route for the home of their dear friends flee and Priscilla White. This is for a Christmas party. I've seen this reported to be as early as four PM but most often. It's said to be the five o'clock hour. This is your typical typical Christmas party by an unknown time. The ramseys leave this party right on the drive home from from the Party Jon Benet and her brother Burke fell asleep in the car and the ramseys made some stops along the way to drop off gifts. This is to who Stewart and Roxy Walkers home and then to Glen and Susan Stein's house because we don't know exactly what time they left the party and what time the stops took place we also don't know exactly what time the ramseys arrived back at their house right. They claim aim is between nine and nine thirty. We would have several stories about what would take place once. The ramseys arrive at their home. One of these stories says that Jon Jon Benet Ramsey to bed and then he went and played a game with Burke after word and eventually burke goes to bed. The ramseys later reported to the Boulder Police Department officers. That Jon Benet Ramsay was last seen by Patsy Ramsey in the residence at approximately ten PM according to Boulder Police Department detective. Linda aren't John Ramsey. Said Jon Benet was last seen by him at approximately twenty two hundred hours ten pm either way. Both both of these statements put job a as being last seen in her bed at ten o'clock right and a lot of people think how it went down. was they get home. She still sleep. They don't want to wake her up and John Kerry's her to her bed that's where he would say good night and then supposedly this is where patsy Ramsey comes in to check honor and and says good night tour as well. John would tell to boulder police officers separately that he read to both children before they went to bed a later he would deny both of those statements. Because I've I've heard him say several times that he carried her to bed and she was asleep when he cared bed. Yeah I just don't know here captain I could see either of these situations being very likely kids fall asleep in the car. You don't want to wake him up. You put them straight to bed also Christmas night. You know thinking thinking back to my childhood you remember when you get like something super cool like like a super nintendo or really big gift right and then your your parents are like. Here's your Super Nintendo with a couple of games. Oh we got to leave and go to somebody's Christmas party and you're like what to do. is his leave so I still yeah. They could've still been excited and when they got home either. Situation makes makes sense to me. What doesn't make sense is that the stories aren't the same or similar enough? Yeah and I would say look. If you're burke. Hey look at the story. They both fell asleep on the way home nine year. Old Burke wakes up and guess what he wants to do he wants to play with one of his cool toys. He got just like you just said Jon Benet Ramsey is. She's six years old and think about the amount of stuff she's done change. She's been On in competitions she's been an performances she had to be run all over to this family gathering friends and family gathering. I'm assuming that this six year old is wiped out and there is a picture that was just recently in the last couple of years released to the public which is supposedly the last picture of Jon. Benet that was ever taken and she looks tired in the picture and that was taken at the party before they left to go home so and also like I said early claims from John Ramsey. See this is what happened later claims from John Ramsey. This is what happened. I'M GONNA go with that story around ten to ten thirty. PM patsy goes to bed at according to patsies statement. John goes to bed at ten three to ten thirty three PM. PM What we're basing this off of is that Patsy says quote. John came to bed shortly. Thereafter then asked. Do you recall if it was fifteen minutes or a half an hour right. Patsy Ramsey says it was probably just a few minutes so we are tacking on three minutes. EITHER WAY A to that statement teno three to ten thirty three John and Patsy both claimed that they were not awakened during the night. They're both in. I bet yeah but I heard it reported somewhere. I want to say maybe it was John Douglas that John Ramsey claims that he took some kind of sleeping aid that night. While I believe that to be correct as well as I think that was a pretty regular things for John Ramsey either way by both accounts we have both of them in bed between ten ten thirtyish ten thirty three at the latest. Yeah I have not seen any reports like growing join up. When I was a kid my father would go through and check the windows and check the doors now? We don't live in a seven thousand square foot house but but I wonder if John Ramsey had some kind of routine that he would check the parameter of the house. It has been said that he did that at night and it has been said by people that were close to the family and their housekeeper that the Ramseys were quote. Good I I believe. The quote is actually really good about locking their doors. But it's interesting because they're not using their alarm system they have alarm. I'm system but it seems like that was not common practice for the RAMSEYS. It would have been at one time. The problem was or it's been reported it as such. They're having to little kids in the home. The children were constantly setting off the security system which created all these false alarms and anybody that has a security system knows that those false alarms they start to come with fines that can get fairly fairly steep right fairly quickly from law enforcement now we move onto December twenty sixth captain sometime around midnight neighbor. Scott Gibbons says. He looked out his kitchen window toward the Ramsey residents and observed that the upper for kitchen lights were on in dimmed. Low again. Another one of those things. It could mean something comed- nothing at all now. The the whereabouts of John Andrew Ramsay. This is John's son from his first marriage. His whereabouts will come into question so it is important for us to know here that between midnight and one. AM At least three people. Put Him at the home of Lucinda Johnson in Marietta Maryetta Georgia later. He is at another home again in Georgia. Just to be perfectly clear here captain these sightings things these alibis for John Andrew Ramsay are one hundred percent confirmed bright yet. There were actually cleared by the police which they haven't cleared a lot of people in this case for them to clear him that that's important and we have confirmation of people being with John Andrew Ramsay up until till eight thirty six. AM At one. Am Neighbors Andrew. Vermeer in Luke for mayor they went to bed. This is after watching movies. They say that before they went to bed all the way up to one. Am they did not hear anything unusual. They didn't see anything unusual. All everything was typical for that time of night according to boulder detective. Steve Thomas Neighbor Melody Stanton tune says she heard a scream between midnight and two am. This seems quite interesting to me but I do you want to take this a step further and point out that this same woman did say at the very early stages of the investigation that she had nothing to offer she did not want to get involved then later. She claims that she heard a scream. Between the midnight hour and approximately two a M. Yes yeah I heard I heard about. These screams is that they heard some screams multiple screens. Not just one but they heard multiple screens and thought. Okay yeah well surely. The parents of this girl are home because they she thought the screens were from a little girl that the parents are home. And they'll take care of this. That's why they stopped hearing the screams also around two. Am I WANNA point out that the whites regarding the activity at their friends flee in Priscilla White. Everyone including their guests are reported to have gone to bed by two am at five thirty. Am I'm John. Ramsey wakes up the family plan to get up early that morning because they were to fly to Charlevoix Michigan for a family vacation. Patsy patsy Ramsey got up quote a few minutes later while Mr Ramsey took a shower. Mrs Ramsay put back on the same outfit. She had on the night before she put on some makeup and she went down to the second floor and then went down the spiral stairs to the kitchen. Now well there's two different versions of this story. There is one that states that she went to check on Jon Benet on her way downstairs and Jon Benet. The name was not there right. The other story says that she went. She attempted to go straight down to the ground level floor now either way there on the spiral stairs. She found on a step near the bottom of the stairs. She discovered a handwritten note on three sheets of paper laid out side by side. The indicated that Jon Benet had been kidnapped. Patsy Ramsey told detective heart that she found a no at the bottom of the staircase at approximately five forty five. Am she says she read. Only a few lines stating being that Jon Benet was kidnapped but safe and unharmed and demanding one hundred eighteen thousand dollars for her return. Mrs Ramsay immediately screamed and then ran to check job as room which she found to be empty after hearing. Mrs Ramsay Scream. John Ramsey ran downstairs and met patsy Ramsey in the stairwell together they checked on Burke who appeared to be asleep in his room. John Ramsey then went downstairs to read the ransom. No he told Patsy to call the police. Nine one one logged the call at five fifty two you honey. What's going on okay? Because incurred and noteworthy daughter. How old is your daughter? How long ago was this checker? The same the ransom note here. The ransom no okay. What's your name? Are you for my okay. Do you know how long she's been gone on here. I am hunting tapie. AP Breath Kathy. Introducing the Jeffrey Epstein. I knew a new podcast from CNN. Hosted by Vicki Ward this seven episode series takes you behind the scenes to hear a one of a kind of count of Epstein an individual. Who's more myth than man Vicky Ward has been reporting on Jeffrey Epstein for almost two decades and takes listeners beyond the headlines to explore four? Who Jeffrey Epstein really was where he got his money and the circumstances surrounding his death? Subscribe to the Jeffrey Epstein. I knew wherever you get at your podcast. Whatever struggles you're facing from depression and anxiety trauma and grief better help can connect you with the professional counselor and safe and private uh online environment? It so convenient you can schedule secure video or phone sessions as well as chat and text with your therapist and anything that you share is completely completely confidential. Best of all. It's a truly affordable option. Our listeners even get ten percent off your first month with Discount Code Garage so why not get started read simply go to better help dot com slash garage and fill out a questionnaire to get matched with the counselor. You'll love today if you'd like to hear more of the garage. All of our old episodes are available before free on the stitcher APP and for our other show off the record. Check us out on stitcher premium. Join US tomorrow for episode two until then be good became. Don't let yeah yeah.

Jon Jon Benet Ramsey Benet Ramsey Patsy patsy Ramsey RAMSEYS Jon. benet John John Andrew Patsy John Patsy Burke Jon Benet Patricia Ramsey Party Jon Benet Ramsey John Andrew Ramsay Jon Benet Colorado John Ramsey Ramsey family Ramsey
JonBenet Ramsey ////// We have a kidnapping, hurry please!

True Crime Garage

1:19:07 hr | 1 year ago

JonBenet Ramsey ////// We have a kidnapping, hurry please!

"From Sky Dance Interactive comes the new podcast series which serves as a prologue to the studios upcoming VR title the walking dead saints and Sinners Supernatural Skeptics Guide to New Orleans. It follows Sarah Bennett. The host of a local radio series investigating New Orleans most popular paranormal tales. Else as she uncovers the surge of walkers taking over the city and becomes trapped in one in New Orleans most notorious landmarks the Laroche House supernatural skeptics. Guide to New Orleans available on Apple podcasts. spotify stitcher iheartradio tune in plus Alexa or at Vr. Walking Dead Dot Com. I hate colds. That's why I trust cy cam to knock out the cold at the I sneeze of the season other cold medicines only mask ask symptoms but Z.. Cam Is homeopathic and clinically proven to shorten colds when taken at first sign fines. I Cam cold remedy. Products from rapid melts to elderberry medicated. Fruit drops at all major retailers including Amazon SICOM cold remedy products Are Safe and effective visit Xichang dot com slash garage to receive a two dollar coupon on your next cold remedy. PURCHASE THAT CY CAM DOT dot com slash garage Jon Benet Ramsey she trained with Colorado murder victim. Jon Benet Ramsey unknown intruder Robert Ramsey parents. Sir John Ramsden anybody has been Ham More and find out who is responsible Argentine fine-tuning what's going on okay. Noteworthy left in your daughter. How old is your daughter important? How long ago was the same ransom? Note here it's a random victory place Okay what's your name. Are you okay. How long she she thinks we do? Tweet I am honey. I take a deep breath told okay. Thank you for the beautiful trailer for this week. Here captain and thank you for playing patsies nine one one call now just to clear up any type of confusion. I think we should jump right into a transcript of that nine one one call so we can all have a clear understanding what is said on both ends ends from the nine one one operator as well as Patsy Ramsey when nine one one picks up the call. Patsy Ramsey says police on one. What's what's going on Ma'am Patsy Ramsey? Seven fifty five Fifteenth Street. What's going on there Ma'am Patsy? We have a kidnapping hurry please. He's nine one one explained to me what's going on. Okay patsy there we have A. There's a note left and our daughter's gone nine. One one note was left in your daughter's gone patsy. Yes nine one one. How old is your daughter? She is six six years old. She's blonde six years old. How long ago was this patsy? I don't know I just got the no in my daughter's gone nine one one. Does it say who took her patsy. What nine one one does it say? Who took her Pazzi? No I don't know there's A. There's a ransom handsome. No here nine one. It's a ransom note patsy it. SAYS SB T sea victory. Please nine one one okay. Okay what's your name or you Cath Asi Patsy Ramsey on the mother. Oh my God please nine one one. Okay I'm sending an officer Sir over okay patsy please nine one one. Do you know how long she's been gone. No I don't please. We just got up and she's not here here. Oh my God please nine one one okay. Cal- patsy please send somebody nine one. I am honey patsy. Please nine one one take a deep breath and patsy. She says hurry. Hurry hurry nine. One one says Pazzi Pazzi Pazzi. At the start part of this call. It appears the Patsy Ramsey is asking for the police. Now we only hear her say police. There are some reports that state that that that is inaudible that we cannot tell what Patsy is saying in that first line yeah. There's some people that speculate that she actually goes to say ambulance and and cuts herself off and says police. She's immediately asked what is going on to which she responds giving her address again. What is going on there ma'am? She states dates. We have a kidnapping hurry please. What I decipher from this? Very quick little snippet at the beginning of the call is I kind of think good and bad when we look at the the scales of Justice in regards to Patsy Ramsey. She's doing exactly what I would expect a mother who is terrified. Ah what could be going on. Her daughter's gone and found a ransom. Note right she is asking for the type of help that she needs police. She is asking. She is stating where she is located and immediately stating stating the problem at hand we kidnapping and then asking hurry please. We've gone through a lot of these nine one one calls over the years. Yeah yeah they drive me nuts. One thing that I've always called into question is when we have a lengthy call and the person is failing to ask for help to respond to the situation until later in the call right here this call roughly is about. I was trying the time it. It's roughly it's a little over a minute. Forty two seconds or something and we have within seven seconds of the call all she is actually asking for help. She's asking for someone to respond to the scene right so I think a good sign for patsy where I say that I think a bad sign signed for Patsy is and this might be just too much speculation on my part but it almost appears to me and somewhat of a manner that she I believe that she could ask for the type of help that she wants police or ambulance. She states where they are located and states. The problem at hand kidnapping happing part of me wonders if she thought that the conversation was going to go any further than that right it okay. Now I'm off the hook. I've made this call. I've told told them to help that. We need. Let's wait for them to respond very good here. We had the nine one one operator asking again. Explain to me what is going on. Okay okay one thing that I will point out that I think is good for Patsy. Ramsey here is unwilling. You mean good good in the sense that let's say she's innocent of any wrongdoing. She goes immediately into we have A. There's a note left in our daughter's gone meaning. Where my first suspicion was that this? This conversation was going to be over soon as she said. There's a kidnapping please hurry right. Then she's asks what is going on. She without hesitation goes into what is going on. She doesn't stumble. You know like I would expect somebody that has has a lot to hide to possibly stumble at that point in the conversation. A lot up. Yeah a lot of us And then there several back and forth about you know our daughter's daughter's gone and there's a note here. She gives a brief description. The at six years old she's blonde. She's a six year old girl down a lot of people label give her a check mark in the and the guilty column for never saying her daughter's name but in fairness to Patsy Ramsey. She's never asked what the daughter's name is. How old is she Karachi your name correct and then we do have a portion here where I find it interesting that nine one one is okay? What's your name? Are you calf so there. Several there are several versions Asians of this call out there right. I find this one to be the most complete one that I have seen and so I'm going with this one. I hear a her. Say The operator. Say Our Cath. which just I find that interesting? Because it doesn't she doesn't seem to know where the calls coming from from at that time almost she's GonNa ask her are you Kathleen or Kathy right but yeah I think it's probably just inaudible and and that's the closest somebody could put down to decipher so I have patsy Ramsey. Of course she's asking for help numerous amorous times asking that they please hurry numerous times throughout this call even in this very short call six or seven seconds into. It is the first time that she asked for our help. And then again around the forty second mark and basically the whole second half of the call is her asking for help or for them to please hurry. Okay so where I always stand on. Those is if we have a situation where somebody calls nine one one and they are not asking for help. Because that's essentially that's all nine one on one is therefore for you to call and request help assistance of some sort. Yeah my issue with a lot of these non one causes is just the the lack of calmness and and obviously that's easier said than done but yes you read the note you yelled for your husband you ran to your husband. You had some kind of conversation with your husband. He reads the note and he says AAC Copley's which one have the two individuals. We know which ones calmer John Ramsey. So maybe you should call because like you said after you asked for help. Maybe that's that's where you think it should stop. Its where it doesn't stop so nine one one is going to keep you whoever calls on the line as long as they can unless unless you have really good reason to not be on the call. Yeah this this call also gets put into question because I would think when you start talking to somebody and saying hey we have emergency. Here's where we're at by me talking to you. The reason why they keep you on the phone is to start calming you down. So as you as the call progresses. Patsy doesn't get more calm. I think this this to me is either a sign that she's faking it. And she's a drama queen or this says happening in real time on. This happened so quickly and as they're asking her questions she still processing the fact that her kid is gone on. And what the hell are we going to do. And one of the things I find really interesting. I believe John. Douglas talks about this. This is one of the key things that he believes that she didn't know much about the note and go get to the note later. Ballade people speculate that she wrote it while she wrote it and they said WHO's the note from that if she was really familiar with the note she she would adjust said as BTC. But it's almost like she asked flip to that part of the note and then she reads from down to upwards reads S. B. T. C.. That makes no sense so she goes to the next word to try to find the answer S. B. T. C.. Nope that's not a good answer victory. Oh that's not good answer either she. I'm saying so. If somebody is more familiar with the no they probably went out. Read from down to up probably when it had to flip to the back To the third page aged to find the answer. That's assuming that that she's doing that. But it sounds like the way she's describing things on that nine one one call. It sounds as if that that is in fact what she is doing. Yeah it'd be very good acting. I would think if she's faking. That you said Drama Queen. I do believe she took some trauma courses. This is the in high school or College. I B here's what drives me. Nuts is like on the where always constantly going. Well here's how I would've reacted or this is how I think somebody should react. Where because if you did if John Ramsey called and said my name is John Ramsey my my daughter Jon Benet Ramsey's missing? She's six years old she's blonde. She's about however tall that they would persecute him for being into com- Not being emotional enough right well I to me. I don't try to look too much into the to try to figure throughout the emotions of the person making the call. I never do that. My whole thing is just I always question win. They are finally asking for help. Because that's that's what nine one one is. It's truly a life line. It is their only to be asking for help and Dan when somebody is in a situation as severe as this. I expect them to be asking for help very quickly in the call and the reason why I always reference that is because if it's a put on if you're only calling nine one one because you feel that that's what you are supposed to do or how you are supposed to act in the situation and you in fact it something terrible then really. You don't want help to show up inside deep down inside you. You're hoping it's delayed as possible because you don't want to have to explain anything to anyone right because you don't want them to know what you've done so I always take that into account when I when I listen these. I never tried to listen to the emotion because as you very Very well pointed out. We don't know how each one of us would behave or react to these different situations. We there is no right way to act or wrong way to behave on these calls and the car gets a little more interesting at the end because there is no okay. See you later or will be here waiting. There's no and end and that's where I believe possibly at that point. John Ramsey is trying to tell patsy Ramsey. Something there's something going on at that House that is pulling her attention away from the phone call in that point. Gone that minute and and forty some seconds on the phone to that mother could have felt like an hour so she might have been like look. I said all I need to say now. There's stuff going on here And now I'm talking to these individuals than the phone hangs up and it's always been kind of a mystery what it has been said at the Ed this is from a two thousand sixteen story on Bustle Dot Com. There's long been debate Over what exactly happened at the tail end of the of the recording was some arguing. The call did not immediately disconnect after patsy hung up the receiver and that a third voice can be heard the nine one one tape has been analyzed nine times nine different times by everyone from the FBI to the US Secret Service to professional audio laboratories to CBS to an amateur Internet sleuth neither the FBI or the Secret Service have reported hearing third voice or any other extended conversation. Now if we back up a few years before four this two thousand and sixteen story on bustle DOT COM reform. Steve Thomas's book. We have this from page fifteen. The telephone call gave us a cornerstone of evidence when he says us he means the boulder detectives working the case. Not so much for was easily heard but for what was found when experts washed out the background noise it has been my experience as a police officer that such emergency calls calls are virtually unchallengeable. They are tape recorded and either something was said or it is not right. Tapes can be so powerful awful. The prosecutors regularly play them so a jury can hear the actual voices and emotions of the participants in preliminary examinations and detectives thought they could hear some more words being spoken between the time. Patsy Ramsey said hurry. Hurry Hurry and when the call was terminated however the FBI in the US secret service could not lift anything from the background noise on the tape as a final effort several months later we contacted the electronic wizards at the Aerospace Corporation and Los Angeles and asked them to try to decipher the sounds behind the noise. He's their work. Produced a startling conclusion. Patsy apparently having trouble hanging up the telephone and before it rested in the cradle. She was heard heard to Moan. Help me Jesus helped me. Jesus her husband was her to bark. We're not talking to you and in the background was a young Sounding voice what did you find. According to Steve Thomas he says this young sounding voice was job as brother. Burke the ramseys would repeatedly tell us again meaning the detectives that their son did not wake up at any point throughout the night of the crime. He says as we knew differently. Yeah but there's there's so many problems with all this I mean. CBS Did an analysis on this to to eliminate all the background noises nearly impossible. So I don't care what kind of state of the art system you have It's that's just. Not How audio works there's distortions and and and things that are happening naturally because it's a phone phone call that you're not gonna be able to eliminate so and I again. I think it's one of these dumb points that okay. If you prove move that she saying he Jesus Jesus help me Jesus or whatever and then you hear in the background which I hear something like that then I also hear some other noise which they're claiming is John Ramsey and he's saying too then burke and when you watch the CBS special. I think they do a good job to go. Okay that's possible. There was also speculation for a couple years. After after that that she was saying What have I done? So there's there's been all these different accounts of what she's saying okay. Let's just say that you're saying what. CBS CBS is saying and and what what the detectives are saying is true and then they came to you and said that while Burke was coming up so we don't know what we know that Burke had to wake up at some point and we know that burke was a wake by the time the police got there. So what does it prove other than their miss remembering and there's plenty of detectives and plenty of law law enforcement and plenty of FBI agents. That have looked at this case. and Said you're just. Let's take a step back when patsy Ramsey says why check in on Jon Benet and then I went down the steps and then later changed to. I went down the steps all the note that I went to check on her. That could be in that moment of trauma if she has no involvement and her daughter going missing she might never remember which order happen. She is just telling you the best of her ability. What she thinks happened? So take that same scenario how burke wasn't up when I was on the nine one one call while maybe you're miss remembering may because of the trauma because of all the stuff going on in your head and in the House that Y- he wasn't up when you went to make the call he was up up when you hung up the phone will continue along on the time. Line as we go here but according to I witness reports Burke Ramsey Ramsay did not wake up until after police hood arrived on the scene. I want to jump back here captain before we get into this time line a little more because I want to really focus focus in on something that you said regarding that that tail end of the call what his been called into question and has been a debate of what what was said if something was said and what was really going on. I think there's good reason to debate that. I think there's good reason for people to question what they believe that they're hearing part of it is the reports that are out there depending on who you look at depends on what report you get on. What is if in fact anything at the tail end of that call right? I personally cannot hear. I hear something. I can't hear the words that later said I believe what I'm hearing is at least two different voices. But I wouldn't say but to get that my I wouldn't. I bet the title of my vehicle on that. I'm hearing three different voices. I think I hear three things going on but I don't know that for certain that I hear three different voices says so the way that this would work out is that patsy didn't hang up the phone all the way and then these words are spoken again. I find it interesting that we have so many different. Let's call him. Scientists for lack of better words right so many different scientist is coming out and saying. Oh we did this audio. We did that. The audio and this is what we hear all. We didn't hear anything. We can't clean it up. We did clean it up varying reports according to bustle dot com at least nine different agencies. Took a look at this regarding Steve Thomas I find him to be. I believe believe him to be is what I should say a reputable detective if he says this is what they found. I do put some weight to that where I won't go. All in on his statement is this has never been presented in the court of law and therefore therefore I have to go with his word but at the same time he saying that all these other different agencies couldn't find anything or couldn't decipher what was being said right and I like I said I think you could start saying that you you hear these these words and then you start hearing those words and if you take a different term then maybe start hearing that term and the audio is just not clear and there's just not the technology to clean it up to the point where it's definitive that there is another voice. I also again or at least to the point that that it's been played in that manner for the public right but I don't understand what that Gotcha moment would be that. If they actually moment I would believe that would be that burke was awake. That is a very. That's a very pivotal moment. In this case I leaving his but why would they lie about that. I'm not saying that I again what I have read from several several FBI agents when they say this Miss Remembering or switching up the order of which you did something might not be so nefarious. Oh yes it just simply might be be you have blocked that out that people. Sometimes when they see their their child dead for for the next couple of hours it's all a blur and that's very. It's a very good possibility in this case and so this the idea where people go. Bomb Burke wasn't up well at five fifty two. You check on him as possible that there's commotion He Comes Down Says Something you tell them to go to his room. Whatever and you miss remember and since misremembered then you double down on on this? 'cause we know that we know at some point they become a suspect and then it seems like they doubled down on a loss a lot of things and I'm just saying what does does it prove. I don't think proves anything other than the possibility that they are lying. And I would really call into question. What is actually going going on in that household? And what are they pretending to be doing or pretending is going on if they are in fact lying about burke being awake yeah but to me it would matter more if it was something where it's like we kinda here third voice saying hey did you find my sister. I killed her. You know something to the effect but a kid go on our to define this again. The only thing like you said which I I agree it very difficult. I find it very difficult that they would miss. Remember this I find it more so that it points out that they're lying when you have have sun something that indicates possible deception. You then have to call everything else into question. It doesn't make them look so credible going and forward the other issue that I take with this is then it calls into question. Well if in fact you are telling the truth and he slept through this whole thing. Why didn't you wake him up to ask him any questions? He possibly could have seen something or heard something or offered. Something of value for the investigation or to the parents who who at that point should be calling for help also should be looking for their daughter or searching the home again with the best technology. I think it's too difficult to clean up to save a certain. What is sad at the end of that tape Getting in shape isn't just about losing zing. Wait it's about feeling better about yourself whether that means having more energy to keep up with your busy life fitting into those gold genes being more in tune with with your body's needs or practicing better self care. NEUM is a habit changing solution that helps users develop a new relationship with food through personal personal courses with neum. No food is good bad or off limits. Instead new teaches. Moderation by helping track your meal habits visualizing visualizing portion sizes and seeing calorie density at a glance it can even be used in conjunction with many pre existing popular diets. I I love of our loss. Twelve pounds is really helping me track my meals and plus being able to see what portion sizes I should be eating. Gene has helped me a lot and you can make a big difference and look. I feel more confident. I definitely have more energy. You'll have to change it all in one day. Small steps make a big progress. Sign up for your trial today at Neum that's an oem dot com slash garage. What do you have to lose visit? NEUM DOT com slash garage to start your trial today. That's NEUM DOT com slash garage. The last weight loss program. You'll need with the cold months approaching. Nothing sounds better than curling up next to a warm fire sipping on a cup of hot cocoa and cracking open intricate homicide investigation Q.. Killer the subscription game that thrusts you and your friends and family until ongoing murder mystery investigation with with every delivery you sift through piles of documents evidence audio recordings case files eliminating suspects until you solve the case and catch the killer her no wonder they have two thousand five star reviews on trust pilot. You have to ask yourself. Do you have what it takes to hunt a killer. You're when you sign up. You're going to be amazed by how entertaining this investigation is. You will sift through the evidence. Decode ciphers piece together clues and try to solve the crime. I ask you again. Do you have what it takes to hunt a killer. I am right on the heels of the killer Dr. I'm searching. I'm going to find you and I'm getting my friends involved and we're having a great time doing it right now just for our listeners you can go to hunt a killer dot com and use use Promo Code Garage for twenty percent off your first box. They even have gift cards for all your holiday shopping not to mention. They're throwing exclusive bundles for the holiday season. So make sure to use Promo Code Garage at hunt a killer dot com for a twenty percent discount to show your support for the show what I love about hunting killers. You can investigate the crime yourself or with friends and family so check out. Hana killer dot com and use our Promo Code Garage. That's hunter killer dot com. Use Our Promo Code Garage. You rarely see them. Coming unstoppable forces destined for causing destruction Russian natural disasters every Thursday. PODCAST Network Investigates Mother Nature's most devastating catastrophes in the original. PODCAST CAST Natural Disasters Salamis. Tornadoes and earthquakes are just the beginning. Each episode explores the historical impact of a monumental tragedy. Eighty analyzing the effect it had on the people and places involved like the two thousand ten earthquake that debilitated Haiti claiming the lives of hundreds of thousands thousands of people or the nineteen ninety. Five Chicago heat wave which led to over seven hundred heat related deaths during a five day period or the volcanic eruption of Mount Vesuvius in seventy nine ad which buried the ancient city of Pompeii and its people and ash. They're the stuff stuff of nightmares. Far more real than ever imaginable. Discover more in. The park has original series natural disasters. Visit PODCAST DOT com slash natural disasters or search for natural disasters in the spotify APP. And listen for free today. All right. Welcome back cheers this week. We are drinking citra no L. hoppy holiday. AL BY COLUMBUS BREWING COMPANY GARAGE grade four and a quarter bottle caps out of five. Thanks again to everyone who has contributed to this year's Beer Fund and happy holidays out there to everyone in the garage army after the nine one one call the ramseys call fleet and Priscilla White Eight and then called John and Barbara Bernie. There is some dispute about who was called I but regardless due to other events and this time line we know Oh that the calls were made before five fifty nine. Am as we go forward with the timeline. Let's keep in mind that there are different reports. Having different details within the time line there are a lot of moving pieces and a lot of witnesses providing information to fill out that time line so we will try to deliver this portion in the most clear and concise manner that we can at five fifty nine. Am Boulder police officer. Rick French arrives on the scene. He arrives at the home of John and Patsy Ramsey just before six a. m. and A. B. P. D. Boulder Police Department marked Takhar. What is not in dispute? Is that the fact that officer French was the first law enforcement officer to arrive at the Ramsey House. Most reports would have officer French arriving at five fifty nine. This is based around him. Arriving seven minutes after the nine one one call which nine nine one one logged that call it. Five fifty to some reports have French arriving earlier and he could have but that would have to mean that the nine one one call log is not correct at approximately six. AM officer French. Reads the ransom letter and a story based on in reading the police reports Newsweek reporters claim French read the ransom. No and later conducted a quick search of the house. In contrast contrast other reports claim French did the house search first and then read the ransom. No French himself stated in Vanity Fair. The interview that after being greeted by Patsy on arrival John Ramsey directed me through the house and pointed out a three page handwritten no which was laid on the wooden floor just west of the kitchen area sometime after six. AM officer. French searched the basement another report states. French immediately searched the house looking for a point of entry. Only after he did that search he read the ransom no detective detective Steve. Thomas is account is far different in terms of timing stating with detectives. Finally on the scene they arrived at eight. Ten Am according to Thomas to handle witnesses. French checked the garage and lower levels of the house looking for places through which the kidnapper might have carried off the child while he found none the house was messy but he saw no sign of a struggle. That last account comes from the leading. Detective Steve Thomas but let's keep in mind while he was one of the leading detectives on the case. He was not present at the Ramsey home on the day in question regardless of the exact timing of this search it is important to know. According to police reports that during the search the officer fails to search what Ramsey's Ramsey's and later everyone else would refer to as the wine cellar room from the police reports and French's search of the basement unquote. He came to a door secured with a wooden latch. He paused for a moment in front of the door but walked away and quote. He does not enter this room. which would would later be called into question in the police report French filed? He says he didn't open the wine cellar room or because he was looking for exits exits. The kidnapper might have used this door. He deemed to be secure. He noticed the latch was on the wrong side of the door. This meaning for someone leading out of the house by so he kept moving. This is the windowless room that is referred for two as the cellar. Room and French does not know that. There's no windows in that room. That's not why he doesn't open that door. What he determines is is that it would be physically impossible for someone to close the door behind them and secure the latch once in the room right because the latch would be on the opposite outside of the door? While this is all going on Sergeant Breitenbach arrives and conducts a search. I want to go through this a little bit here your captain because as said there's a lot of moving pieces and the timing of all of this stuff seems to vary depending on who you talk to. What I think is important important to know going forward is most of what I would consider to be the key events? I believe them all to have actually happened. What you would call into? Question is the timing of those events right not if they occurred or not it seems like all of the all of the possible. Witnesses would claim that all of these things do in fact happen. It's just in what order and win right so I put in here. Sergeant Reichenbach arrived I and conducts a search of the home. The reason why put it in here is because if you go from John Douglas Information he he states that both Sergeant Reichenbach and officer Franch searched the home before this next event happened. This next event is marked at six. Oh three A M or minutes. After six this when France fleet and Priscilla white arrive at the Ramsey House within fifteen minutes of their arrival. According to Mr White's later testimony he alone searched the basement event fleet white said when he went downstairs to look for Jon. Benet Ramsey. The lights were already on the basement. Fleet white then searches the the train room or what he would call the playroom. He testified that a window in the basement playroom or train room was broken under the broken window. Mr White States. There was a suitcase along with a broken shard of glass. He does not however remember whether the window was open or closed I. There is a report states. Fleet white moved the suitcase and placed under the window. Some reports state that this window was opened. Some say it was closed. Fleet white also opened the door to the wine cellar room but he could not see anything inside because it was dark remember. There's no windows in this this room and he could not find the light switch. Anybody that's familiar with this home in the layout of the home one thing. That's always been called into question. Is that the light switch for this wine. Cellar Room is in a strange spot. It's not in that Goto spot. That one would immediately turn to naturally to flip on the Light Ram. He doesn't see anything and he said he closed the door and secure the latch. Now according to Steve Thomas he says at six six thirty a m fleet white searches the basement same incident with a slightly different time and description of observations Thomas's notes state that within approximately he ten to fifteen minutes of his arrival fleet. White searched the basement of the ramseys residents. He noticed that the lights were on saw the broken window in the train room and looked for broken glass and found a small piece of glass. The latch on the window was in the unlocked position and his impression was that the window was closed. He looked in the wine cellar but could not see anything and went back upstairs as six ten. Am Boulder Police Department officer. Karl each each response to the scene. Captain we do need to point out here that contrary to normal protocol the police did not seal off the home of the Ramsey's yeah they missed a lot of things with protocol. Yeah and other words. Any person in the Ramsey house could and did move freely throughout the home home at this time this includes officers and the ramseys and the whites as we know flight at some point. Even though in dispute of the exact Jack Timing did search the lower level of the home while anytime that there's a victim that is that young age and then you have a ransom awesome note or kidnapping situation. What I've heard is that you're supposed to go? Okay less prove this theory. I that the that the child is not in the House that something to happen this in this house and we're not trying to cover it up with with with this tactic and obviously we. They didn't do that. They just assumed that this kidnapping typical kidnapping and and you were trust the parents on this one and move forward. So there's a few things in that very same regard that I find to be interesting based based off of witness statements and this includes law enforcement and civilians. We have the two officers that Douglas's searched the home before fleet white. Both of them state that they're looking for exit points from the House. So that means you're going to be searching. Probably the basement and the ground level this might lead them to have no reason if that's in fact what they are searching for this might lead them to not have caused to search the the second floor and of course the third floor right the other thing we have fleet white. He states that he is looking for Jon. Benet Ramsey. He's he states that his purpose purpose of searching the home was to look for the little girl. This based off of a real life situation that he experienced where I believe it was his daughter. Water was missing and she was just hiding somewhere right. You know. It was just one of those parental scare moments. That people have the difference here is. There's a ransom note. But I don't believe if you believe fleet whites account. He very likely would have no knowledge of this ransom note so before he went off on his search right the other thing though captain where you talked about protocol and in the missteps by the Boulder Police Department in the ransom note says do not contact the police and one standard bit of protocol. I would guess here. I'm making an assumption. I do not know this to be true. It seems very strange to me that when you are reporting a kidnapping with a ransom note coat that boulder responds by sending a marked police car to the scene. That's the first car that shows up it. It seems to me like it would be more beneficial to that exact situation if you would send at least detective in an unmarked car right so a lot of things going on here. I say all that but I also question current day present day even nineteen ninety-six. Fix How much experience would a police department have with a kidnapping and ransom note. That's kind of an old school. It crime I wonder how often the these protocols are taught. I know that they have kidnappings and they deal with abductions and missing persons cases but one in fact where there's a ransom note saying. Hey his person's going to die unless you give us this money are just find it so strange. How many hey people the parents called to say? Hey Look Jon Benet is missing. Come over come to the house yet just after ten. AM is win. Family friend. John on Ferney arrives his his wife. Barbara Fernie came later and that's reported as just before six twenty. Am So we have fleet white. Priscilla White John Fernie Barbara Fernie all at the Ramsey House as of six twenty. Am this is about a half hour after the nine one one call is placed right. We also need to keep in mind that not only do we have all these extra civilians in the house but we also have several officers that have arrived there trying to assess what's going on there talking to John they're talking to Patsy and what John says is that after. He was aware that something was wrong that he did check the first floor doors. He found them all to be locked. He says that the Ramseys in fact had a security system but it was not engaged and that their dog stayed at a friend's house that night. The dog was not in the House the night in question. John said he saw no signs of forced entry. And the Ramsey say they heard nothing during that night. Ah this is where it gets kind of messed up though. 'cause you have a situation where a police officer sees marks on like the kitchen door or or like the the outside door that would go into the kitchen and they look like fresh like like this is maybe maybe attempt to break into your house and John Ramsey kind of dismisses these like well I I don't know if those are new or old because he has this habit of one forgetting his keys and just breaking stuff to get into his own house and not fixing and so that makes us situation even more difficult. Yeah and I believe they find those marks the the following day now just before six forty five. Am John Ramsey calls. The pilot remember. They're supposed to be getting on an airplane. John Ramsey leaves a message for his pilot. This this is Michael Arch Aleta who then returns the call. A few minutes later in Patsy answers the phone. I don't have record of what was stated I'm guessing Based off of things that Michael Arch Aleta would later say that it was simply a call to say. Hey something's wrong. Something's going on here. We're not making that that plane right at six forty five. AM officer sue bark. Low arrives at the Ramsey's house about the same time victim advocates arrive at the Ramsey's house. They are called in as they are advocates trained in helping families through traumatic situations since when they arrive apparently they arrived with bagels and Coffee Priscilla white about the same time calls her niece. Who is back at the white the house? We will know what that call is about in a bit and six fifty a m officer Weiss and officer officer bark low were photographing and fingerprinting areas of the House officer. Vh had collected the ransom note at seven. Am Burke Ramsey is awakened and dressed. There are two different accounts of how this went down. But they're both very similar one account states that it was John Ramsey fleet white. and Mr Fernie right. Who Woke up the young boy and got Adam dressed and got him ready to go? The other story states that it was just fleet white and John Ramsey as seven thirteen. Am Reverend Reverend role. Hosver stock from Saint John's Episcopal Church arrives at the Ramseys home. This is their reverend. This is the church did they attend after the Reverend arrives nine year. Old Burke Ramsey is taken by fleet white and John Fernie to pick up the fernie children presumably at the Fernie home and then taken to the whites home. There was some interaction action during this whole movement of Burke. Let's call it right where police want to ask Burke if he saw anything remember right now we are investigating in a kidnapping of a little girl. That occurred inside of home where there was three other people that night. Three potential witnesses his whether they saw something heard something right. What the officer is told from? All the I'm using air quotes here captain. General accounts I that I have seen states. That John Ramsey instructs the officer that burke was sleeping the entire night and he saw and heard nothing basically. He has nothing to offer to this investigation at an unknown time. John Ramsey apparently searches this debasement. Mr Ramsey also searched this basement area alone according to some stories. He testified that he found the broken window. A partially opened under the broken window. Mr Ramsey also saw the same suitcase seen earlier by Mr White. Mr Ramsey testified. Did the suitcase belonged to his family but was normally stored in a different place. Mr Ramsey then returned upstairs in his nineteen ninety eight testimony. John Ramsey provided several different times for when he searched the basement on his own he first states quote. It would have been that time period seven seven to nine and later reiterates. It was probably sometime between seven and nine when asked whether it was before after the whites. Bernie's arrived John stated quote. I think it was after because they came fairly early. He then reiterated quote the Best I can do is it was as I believe after the police came because they had gone through the house before. I figured out what I'm going to do. It was before ten o'clock they they had already done some preparation before that so it would have been before probably before nine so then somewhere between seven and nine but when reminded that the ransom letter said a call would come between eight and ten a m right. John is basing these answers. There's off of that. He was Miss Remembering that the call was going to come between ten and twelve ten. AM noon right. As he had supposed. I John made clear that he had visited the basement prior to that time since he states quote when we are ready for for the phone call. I was prepped about what I was going to say and I was getting the family ready and so between that period of time we were just waiting for the phone call all and I was near the phone and I was either in the study or on the first floor. I was just waiting for it referring to the call. This is one of the biggest problems with the whole damn case as the missed remembering in the eyewitness accounts from everybody. It's almost like you have to Kinda Anna throw most of them away because they don't line up with other people's accounts And and but also this is because you I. I have to go into the scene and determine whether or not it's kidnapping they would have done their due diligence there. They would have found Jon Benet Ramsey and the wine cellar once. I'd say. find her in the wine cellar. Now you have to lock off this scene. Now it's a crime and now what we need to do is try to. Because we know it's like twelve twelve to one that somebody that young if not more Percentage is higher that somebody in her family. Kilter sue so now you have to separate the three that were in the house and start questioning them right away and this is not done by law enforcement. Yeah there look and I hate to come down hard on Boulder Police Department because this is a strange situation nobody nobody can doubt that after we know what we currently know. It's going to get even stranger but where I kinda fault them is captain. I feel like me you and some of our garage friends could have showed up to this home and done somewhat of a better job just being uneducated aided individuals that are just guessing as we go. Yeah I think the difficult thing here is that you have quote unquote grieving parents. And so therefore again it becomes one of those things whereas easier said than done where you have to assume that nobody is tone you the truth from the get-go and and let the evidence tell you what to believe. But I think that's hard to do when you have this mother crying and and kind of causing a scene but there you're giving us too much credit. I'm not even taking it to that level of sophistication. I just mean if you show up to what is deemed or believed to be at the time a kidnapping then I feel like there are already missteps just just for just for that kidnapping not even based off of anything else that we will figure out a fence to come so I do want to point out by this time and it is reported again. I apologize to everybody but I can't make this stuff up. This is what's out there. This is the information that's out there. This is what we we have to deal with their varying times on this statement as well but I believe that by this time I believe the earlier statement that by this time in our time frame. Roughly we are around the seven ish to seven thirty mark by this time they have done don one well two things that were very smart and that you would do in a ransom type situation by at this point they have set up a trap and trace on the Ramseys home phone and they've also stopped all police radio radio communication regarding the kidnapping. This is important for several reasons. We have individuals that that did claim or at least the note will claim they want a ransom for the safe return of this little girl they very likely could would be monitoring police scanners listening into what calls are going on to see if the ramseys fact did contact the police. He's and what the police are doing. What is their movements? What is their strategy at this time so they cancelled all police radio communications and now they are going to communicate via phone? which is going to complicate matters because they're not used to doing that? and not everybody has a phone on their person. But that's what they have to deal with now going through all of those things that John Ramsey Ramsey said about the timing of win. He searched the home on his own. Search the basement on his own. We go through that. It's a bit tedious but you have to go through it because there's going to be a lot of questions about what he could have been doing during that time or when he in fact searched the home by himself we included all of his words. So that you know that we're not just making this up this comes from actual words. This is from evidence. This is from his statements that he put out himself now. If he's giving us a two hour time window when he believes that the ransom call was going to come in between ten and twelve and saying well happened before that it must have been between seven and nine. You almost wonder if you have to back that up a whole hour. Because he's off on when the call supposed to come in 'cause post come in between eight and ten and he's saying that he's being. He remembers being prepped at some point and this would be in his recollection around the time that the call was supposed to come in. You have to put the guy before the call comes in right all right so Louis simplifies some of this. Roughly about seven o'clock they're gonNA wake up burke they're going to get him dressed they're gonNA take him to the whites at the same aim time roughly the same time about seven o'clock to seven thirteen. We have reverend showing up so he's going to get to the house and then at some employ between seven and eight probably closer to seven because John Ramsey has to be prep for the call which should be coming in from eight not ten. He searches the home heat surged his home in his own words. It's just the timing. He gives his weird and wrong because of two things. Thanks one of two things either. He's not remembering the events clearly or he's lying or he's lying right by either way. This would put his search before the police officers search and so now roughly about seven thirty and we're looking at Thirty minutes before call. Possibly we can come in. The ransom. Amount is assembled they collect a one hundred eighteen thousand dollars at seven thirty three. A M A canine unit is put on standby. This is interesting captain because they never use this canine unit. They just put one on standby standby. I don't know if they were waiting for the ransom. Call to come in before they utilize this canine unit. Or what was going to take place but you feel like like if you know the child was sleeping in her bed at some point that you bring in that Canine Unit. If you're trying to figure out how the kidnapper got out of the home bring the dog in. Let them sniff around the bed and see if the if this canine unit is going to lead you through the home right but that makes some sense and and this case has none the boulder police department does not seem to be in the business of doing things that make sense no at eight. AM neighbor Scott. Gibbons I got up and observed a basement door to the Ramsey home was standing wide open. There's been some debate about this open door. Not that he saw it and not that it was. Open it just by this point you've had so many people moving around through the home and checking doors and going about police business business. Or what have you won. This could have left the door open and this is possibly the door that has tone you and one of the reports. I saw where the cops found a back door open so this could be that back door that you're talking about correct so this is where I think think we can back up John Ramsey statement of what time he was searching the home by himself or the basement by himself because he seems to recall even though he can't figure out the time that it was before he would have been prepped for the ransom. Call the next item on our time. Line plays to that so so at eight ten. Am We have detective. Patterson and Detective Linda aren't arrive at the Ramsey. Home aren't as crazy is yes okay officer rick. French gave them an updated briefing at this time. We have Steve. Thomas notes that states that the two detectives arrived left At this time as well so this seems to be generally confirmed or at least believed by multiple people on the scene. Detective aren't monitored incoming calls to the ramseys residents. That was her first duty afterward. Detective aren't instructed John Ramsey regarding the call all the instructions were how he should handle the call when it comes in I to keep talking or keep the caller talking long enough to trace the call and maybe even more important demand to talk to Jon Benet but why this is all going on. We have the Ramsey's friends that are over to try to help them out. They start cleaning the kitchen. Yeah some of the notes state that this was the victims advocates. They were cleaning the kitchen. Either way it's it's a big no-no especially if it would be the advocates that were brought in by the Boulder Police Department at eight thirty six. Am John John. Andrew and Melinda Ramsey board a Delta flight to Minneapolis at nine twenty seven. AM detective by field. Contacted Gary Merriman for a list of the employee's and access graphics. Yeah basically by doing this. They're rounding up people that they think are possible suspects at ten. Am No one including the RAMSEYS. Mentions to detective. Linda aren't that. The suspected kidnappers failed to call during the designated time period. Right Steve Thomas very astutely points points out a very interesting thing here that that that's very kind of difficult to put your finger on and that is the letter which we are going to dive into the letter states the we will contact you tomorrow between eight. AM and ten. AM The problem with that is we do not know what time Jon Benet was kidnapped meaning if the letter was constructed and she was kidnapped before midnight then eight. Am To ten am. Tomorrow would be just that very day on the twenty sixth right. If it was after midnight the kidnapper may have meant eight. Am And ten am on the twenty seventh. It it's this this him. Make this stuff up about this case regardless what I find interesting here though captain is if I'm one of the parents of of this missing girl and I've been prepped on a ransom call on how to handle that call when that time expires. I'm going to be ED panicking. Why didn't they call? Why didn't they call as they know? Paul Yeah I'm not GonNa put any thought into what day they were supposed to call or what they meant. I'm going to go off of. I'm panicked I haven't heard I'm supposed to get some instruction on how to get my daughter back right or I'd use my brain and say okay. They didn't call so I'm a little worried but does that mean that they're going to call tomorrow is you know is the note stating tomorrow. I mean like somebody should mention and something According to Steve Thomas's notes At Ten thirty at approximately ten thirty is exactly what he states. Detectives Actives Linda. Aren't and Fred Paterson. They sealed off John Benes bedroom about time. Yeah it's about time to jot down that way to go pat yourself on the back at ten thirty A.. M. After doing this all additional police officers and the victim advocates. This is everyone law enforcement. forcement sent to the home other than Linda. Aren't they leave the Ramsey residence so that means we now have Linda art at the home. One detective one member of law enforcement one single person with Patsy Ramsey John Ramsey the Weitz the furnace and the reverend while the ramseys really liked her though even though she has crazy is the ramseys. It seemed like they felt comfortable roll with her. Well I just wanted to point out that we have one law enforcement member here and seven individuals seven civilians liens in a big giant house. There are things working at the police station during this time. However how could the officers in the other detectives -tective there's a sergeant amongst them all decide to leave and only leave one officer there with seven people? This to me seems like pure insanity on behalf of the Boulder Boulder Police Department and totally unfair to one of their own unfair to detective. Linda aren't yeah but she's GonNa tell two different stories so I don't think we need to get into too much detail but it seems like initially. She's like yeah. There were cooperative and I was trying to help them amount and they were talking to me then it seems like years later should change his her story and that that that's where she has famous interviewer she's saying and I was holding my gone and count in my bullets. You know and it's like one. Why you kind of your bullets? While you afraid none of these people have guns. Yeah I just think it's that whole move is totally unfair to detective aren't by her fellow officers to leave her there by herself. L. To be fair number wanted to be seen with her crazy is it's too much for one officer to handle. We got seven people moving around a crime scene but they're not right but and then on top of that still has not been doesn't need it a crime scene by law enforcement. I mean they yes they blocked off. Haven't we read. That's one of the problems. Yes big pro. Yeah that's a big problem. Here's continued another misstep side. The Boulder Police Department. Now we're GONNA leave just one of our officers here too. Yeah okay so the thought at at the time is yes. There was a kidnapping. Maybe she doesn't need to be monitoring everybody inside the home but maybe that should have been consideration one and two. We've cut off Radio Communications Yup. What if the ransom call comes in? You've left thirty minutes after the call was supposed to come in. It just makes it makes absolutely zero. We absolute zero sense. We have one officer there. She'll handle it makes no sense between ten forty A. M. Around noon. John Ramsey is unaccounted for what this means is. Linda aren't the only officer Sir on the scene does not know where this man is during this timeframe does he go to check his mouth or something that his that was the rumor. That was the story that came out early in this whole big mess because a sh- shit about your mail. Well that's what people point to say. This man did not care that his daughter was missing at the time did not care that a ransom call could come in because he left the home to check the mail Linda into art kind of makes assumption. Here remember she cannot account for him. She accounts for him around noon. She says when she sees John John Sitting by himself and he's reading some type of correspondent. Some maybe a letter or something. She makes the assumption that he left to go get the mail. We know years later that that is in fact. We can't say in fact but I guess very likely untrue that he left the home to get the mail the mail slot that was in the in the front door. The mail come into the homes. You don't have to leave the home so he could very well picked up the mail or just pick something up from his desk tried to occupy his mind. We don't know what we do know is. He is unaccounted for roughly for an hour. She doesn't know where he is. Linda does not again that look. That's not the fault of the family. That's the fault of law enforcement for leaving one officer behind not be all to keep an eye on everybody but it's interesting because the other adults in the home are accounted for. During this time now we have Linda Art. Who is left with a cell phone? This is her method that she's been told she needs to use to communicate with her fellow officers during this time. She feels like she's losing control of of all the people they're losing control of the scene. If you WANNA call it. That and she samson choose roller eyebrows. Denies She sends two pages to two officers requesting backup that she would like for them to call you. Send a page they respond. She was going to tell them. I need some additional. No officers here. I'm outnumbered and I wonder what made her look. I'm not saying that she's telling one story. And then Sane Sane enough. That's what I said before. But what but that's what kind of seems like but maybe there was something that happened happened during being there by yourself that she went wait a second. Something's not right here. That's when she started calling for back-up yeah twice. She called well. She sent a page page both times they went. They didn't respond to them. She never had the opportunity to ask for backup. She's asking for backup captain because she feels. She's lost control all of the scenes. She's lost control of the all. These were there all. She supposed to babysit them. She knows for a fact that one of them John Ramsey is unaccounted accounted for search for a certain period of time around. One o'clock Heather Cox. She is at the whites home. She answers the phone own and she is told by Priscilla White to bring Burke Ramsey back to the Ramsey home Now at around around twelve thirty again. We have John Ramsey. According to Linda aren't sitting by himself she decides and again. There's I apologize. which is there several different versions of the story? But she says that around just before one o'clock she wanted to give John something to do so she asked John to search the house. Some story say that she approached fleet white and asked him to get John to go with him to search the house. I actually think these varied stories in this particular situation could be extremely important. Based based off of what people's suspicions will be because of their movements and what people will come to the defense of John Ramsey and those suspicions suspicions. Yeah but really. This case should be called Jon. Benet Ramsey close enough good enough for jazz right make us. Every story has a combating story. Because the people telling you the story other than us they all seem to have an ax to grind right. They've -cluded what happened. They figured out what has happened in. They're going to sell it and spin it to you in that manner. We're going to try. Try to give you the story from all different angles and let you decide what took place. Yeah now I'm going to really try to sum this. Hello I'm not GonNa let you decide on her crazy is definitively she has crazy is to sum it up here. Captain in the shortest form either aren't asked fleet white to search the home with John or she asked John and then John took doc fleet white with him. This is interesting because of what we will learn. And we'll get into that eventually regardless of how all this goes down of WHO ASKED WHO Steve. Thomas says that they were instructed to search the house from top to bottom however John opted to head directly clea to the basement instead. According to Steve Thomas's notes. John Ramsey led fleet white to the basement where they I went to through the train room and examined the broken window and John said he broke it a few months ago. They searched for glass on the floor. The men next search a shower stall located in the basement. Mr Ramsey then noticed a fireplace great propped in front of a closet and Mr White moved the great so the closet could be searched upon finding nothing unusual in the closet. The man proceeded to the Wine Cellar Room One oh four PM PM. This is the time given in Steve. Thomas Notes Mr Ramsey entered the room. I turned on the light and upon discovering Giannis dead body eighty. He shouted something in regards to that discovery. There is another version out there that states Ramsey shouted actually before turning on the light right. This is called into question because remember we have fleet white who says he went into that very same room earlier. Couldn't find the light and did not see anything. Job had black duct tape covering her mouth. A cord around her neck that was attached to a wooden Gherat and her hands. Were bound overhead. Ed in front of her she was covered by a light colored blanket. The blanket covered her torso but not her head arms or legs. John Ramsey ripped the duct tape from job as mouth and attempted to free. Her hands of the bindings fleet white came running up the stairs. Yelling call nine one called nine one one. He then runs to the back office located on the first floor grabbing a telephone but remember we have detective. Linda aren't is is still in the home at this point so using the cellphone. She calls nine one one and John Ramsey which is carrying jon. benet up up the stairs. He then sets her down and for some reason. DETECTIVE AREN'T GONNA pick her back up and carry her into a different room. The Living Room mm-hmm by the Christmas tree. This is where John Ramsey kneels beside the body and repeatedly says something like my little angel over and over again friends had to carry patsy Ramsey. Because she's too stunned to walk over to the body and the next part I didn't believe actually had a here at from patsy Ramsey's mouth herself but she actually asked God to raise her daughter from the dead saying you raised Lazarus from the dead. Raise my baby if you want more of the garage garage make sure you check us out on the very free very awesome stitcher APP and for our other show off the record check us out on stitcher premium for everything. True crime check out true crime garage dot com. Join US next week for episode three of Jon Benet Ramsey until then be good be kind. Don't let her

Cath Asi Patsy Ramsey Patsy Ramsey officer Burke Ramsey Ramsay kidnapping Ramsey House Jon Benet Ramsey John Ramsey Ramsey John Priscilla White Steve Thomas John Douglas Cal- patsy ramseys Bustle Dot Com Robert Ramsey Boulder Police Department
Mind Hunter: John Douglas /// Part 2 /// 446

True Crime Garage

38:38 min | 2 months ago

Mind Hunter: John Douglas /// Part 2 /// 446

"Welcome to true crime garage wherever you are whatever you were doing. Thanks for listening. I'm your host. Nick and i say turkey for the girls and turkey for the boys. And here's a guy who's favorite kind of pants corduroys. Here's the captain. I really did like corduroy pants and high school. It's good to be seen as good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks tana friend you know what would be great with thanksgiving dinner. A little shot of whiskey with a refreshing lemonade shanty chaser. That's right baby today. We are still sipping on shady spot by our good friends over susquehanna brewing company. Ab four point five percent garage. Great four and a quarter bottle caps out of five. And let's start off with a big huge thank you to porsche and parts. Unknown big cheers to a mala in boise idaho. Next we have a nice contribution to this week's beer fund from frank and estelle cat stanza from del boca vista retirement community and las angeles cat. Stanza can't stand. And the big sal to allison and lead would new jersey. And here's a double cheers to jen. And m j at center caps direct. They are out in naqa. Nowhere which i believe is just one county from parts unknown so cheers to jen an mj and cheers to trigger it to this week's garage fridge. Fill up biran. Thank you guys so much for supporting the show this year. Big things happening as this is our last show. Big things are happening. Because we're we're quitting now just joking. Big things happening and two thousand and twenty one. And i hope two thousand and i hope everybody made it through two thousand and twenty and that is enough of the business all right. Everybody gather around. Grab a chair. Grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime. We're continuing our discussion with john. Douglas retired fbi special agent. John douglas you know him from the behavioral science unit. You may know him from the wonderful show. Mind hunter picking up where we left off. We were discussing one of my favorite books law and disorder and in particular the west memphis. Three case mr douglas. Will you met mark buyers. There was a dramatic contrast to your meeting with terry hobbs. At first mark byers was put in not very welcoming to your conversation but he very quickly warmed up to you and then became very much an open book whereas terry put on the facade of being welcoming and interested in talking to you however as the conversation went along he became aggressive and became dodgy to your questions pay. Yeah he's very much word got out that he wanted to get. Have somebody Get rid of me. and Contract i me i mean killed but buyers you're exactly right. I when i sat on that porch. His hottest heck down there sweating and and he got angry as hell and his wife was there. and Initially started talking on the porch like an hour or so then. Finally i was invited into the house. And i spent hours on hours. You know you know. Within just assessing him and i mean i mean he's not the most stable person at that certainly but he's he didn't kill he didn't kill his. You know his his child a different feel to that. Have when i spoke when i spoke to terry And Initially spoke with matt a shopping center. I'm trying to gain trust. And then when i started gaining information on him and he got really pissed off at me when i we're able to track down years earlier How he broke into a house a neighbor's house and She was taking a shower and he tried to. Molester tried to molasses woman. He thought that record was purged and it wasn't available and so we had that he also shot his brother his brother in law and he was also extremely violent to his to his children. His son and his young son and daughter in to his to his His wife his his wife is a believer that the that he is responsible for that crime. But no one's really doing no one's really working it As far as they're concerned child they don't have to pay it off to pay any money to to Damon echols and jesse and jason baldwin. Any state money Because they had the played the all hell for plea and to this day there. They're sex offenders. These these three. I did a presentation with amanda knox and jesse miskelly about a year and a half ago up in up in new york and you could say we just took a chunk out of their lives. It's like they're it's like they're they're behind developmentally emotionally because of the time that they spent a period of time in our lives in in prison particularly Damon and and it was the saints with amanda the same same thing speaking of interviewing parents of victims and also parents that may be considered suspects. You were directly involved in the still unsolved homicide of six year old jon benet ramsey for those who are yet to read the cases. That haunt us. Can you explain how you became involved in the case. Yeah i was in I happened to be in utah at the time. Speak in a university when i got a call from investigative. Who's working on defense team. I didn't know who he was and Asked me if i would like to participate in In the investigation. And i and i told a colleague of mine have used to work in the unit i accepted and and i said this family is guilty in the back of my mind. I'm thinking you know they're guilty. Because what i was reading in the paper is what was being presented on on television. So i i go over and meet the the attorneys in denver in an old mansion. They have as a as an office and inside of what would be the living room. This is a closed encasement of a fiberglass room within the room and go in there some thinking back my mind and what are these guys going to do because like offer me money or something. I'm gonna pay me. I'll give them a rash of crap. Man walk right out on them but i got in there and and i sat down and they said john. We don't know we really don't know we don't know just so we don't think they did it but we we'd like you to take a look at what we have going present to you what we have and i said yeah i suppose you know And they argued a payment. Go to pay me. But the pay people think just became a millionaire fifteen hundred dollars. I spent a lot of time. I testified out there and everything Because once i realized i'm not working for i was working for victims wasn't working floor offenders. I was working for victims of violent crime who had been go who are now in the process of being victimized by being accused of killing a child but once i saw how how she was how she was murdered and the things that was done to her. That was wasn't all nate made public And and Ah parents kill believe me. We have had plenty of cases. Parents kill but not like this not like this. Not in this With this family this this type of family you know either They don't kill like like this so i did. You know i. I'd met with the family And actually First thing i did. I went to the house and kind of reenact reconstructed things to see where they were Their bedroom was was there was like an addict that was made into a master bedroom. And the children on the next floor down. And you can't hear anything with the air conditioning. Heating units going. You really can't hear anything if anyone who's down below you there But i looked at when a case like that. Okay you looking at a then. I'm looking at previous behavior. Post defense behavior. What's going on in their lives. And i didn't see anything pre offense behavior that it would that i was out of the ordinary or unusual christmas time. They're going to charlevoix michigan for the holidays. And i think they're gonna work out to disney disney world And i don't see anything there Now perpetrate the crime okay. The crime has been perpetrated. Let's take a look at that. And then i saw where the investigators asked John and a neighbor fleet would to take a look around anything out of the ordinary. Take a look downstairs in the basement. So they they go down there. Usually when a parent kills we found over the years that the parent the parent. Who did the killing. It won't be the one to find the body you'll get somebody else person with them or is it searching in the yard or something with a search or a search party they may. They are not going to be the one to find the child in this situation. Your fleet white goes down. John goes into this room checks. It's a it's a wine cellar but there's no wine as they don't even drink and their he finds his daughter. Well my god my baby. He he shouts out and She has tape over mouth or hands or overhead Tied together He doesn't know it yet but she is gherat it and He then picks her up carrizo upstairs. Laser down in the eventually and they. I guess it's been the the living room a of people up there. Everything's contaminated And trying to bring her back to life rubbing her body that's an rigor and A little bruce on her on her forehead so she has a bruise on our head. They should she has been garage the garage. She's been garage. Added piece of the paintbrushes used to to a handle to garage hard with rope at in this nylon rope that they never found where this real was the ramseys in having in finding other pieces of it They find a wood fibers from From a from the same paintbrush and their vaginal vaginal area choose been penetrated with the believe. Now with with that stick. That's how that that You know got there When they they start the autopsy and they remove the skull or the skin on the skull Surprisingly they find that the skull has been cracked open like a like a coconut like eight and a half inches in length. But why is there just a little red slight red mark on far head and my gosh to break his skull. you'd think it'd be kind of dima. It'd be swelling and blood and Well it's wise because the she was dead or on her last breath when when the person responsible wasn't satisfied enough with with the With with the death itself so he he does her in with wasn't necessary for the the kill she's already dead from from the The garage And so And then the letter the other thing is the letter. Correct the famous two and a half page letter and the fbi was against me. Have police hated me around the country. And you never saw two and a half page letter and yeah that's right. They're right about that however when with the letter have been written. It's the question you mean to tell me that after the the rain tell me the ramseys have been murdered. Now you're going to write a two and a half page letter The threatening letter asking for money and the money is coincides. Roughly to what a bonus that john ramsey have your in into this letter different different verses that are coming right out of movies at of movies like ransom and You have the presence of mind to you know to do something like that after after the crime. No yeah. so you're you're not. You're not gonna have the that kind of presence of mind so i just saw so many different different things and you know the bureau angry you know like i i may be. I like when i saw alex hunter talking before the public. We know you're out there we're going to be is more than one of you i. I knew that he was coached by without anyone telling me i mean i invented the stuff that he was being told by by the agents of of what to say. But i'm not telling the i'm not so telling the the the defense what they're doing here. What the what tactics. I'm not doing it. I would have loved to have been you know. Been able to solve that case if it was then just come up and get a confession out of him but that was not that was not the case and and there was a broken man. i. I'd met john several times And a broken. A broken man Patsy ramsey's stage. She was in remission. Cancer returned she dies. Everyone was waiting for a dying declaration. There was no dying declaration. She didn't kill her. Kill her daughter. John honest since remarried. Cbs comes out with a a tv. Show with the so-called fbi form agents expert s x purse in quotes and and Forensic experts and they and they come up with this theory more than a theory but at keke station at that that Burke ramsey is responsible for the The death i i was i was watching that. I'm thinking holy mackerel. You can't say something like that. I mean he burke is he's gonna say where he lives by. I come across him over the years. I mean he. He did not hit his sister accidentally. Or whatever On on purpose in fact if if the parents knew that they never would've allowed him to talk to the police alone without even the parents the parents in the presence of burke So that's another one of these cases where you know they. They what they did what they did. Nick is and you see. Sometimes on cases you let let a theory driving investigation and they let certain evidence that supports the theory in and they disallow some evidence. That doesn't fit the theory out. You know so. So they let nuts theory you know. Drive it and not being driven by evidence of any kind of forensic evidence whenever I witnessed testimony letting letting us theory And you know why because too because you had you didn't have a homicide investigative work in that case you have a drug investigator Working in our connex officer working in case and because they have so few cases they rotate them out. There in boulder and so the mindset of narcotics officer is different than a homicide officer. I'm not connex. Officer knows comes knows. You're dealing knows that you i know it's you i'm gonna make a case on you i'm gonna make you know on your. I'm going to build a case all around you and former whatever we're gonna get you well you get that mindset in a homicide case i know you did. I know the certain behavior patsy. When they brought the child up a passy was their fingers splayed. Across a face peeking through your eyes and all that other a nonsense stuff. No you let you. Let a let us theory. Drive your investigation you. You're into a narcotics investigation mindset not a homicide investigators and that's why who's the investigators from colorado springs loose smith. Yeah that's what. I was to say as soon as you are. Brought in to take a look at the case and soon as the famous homicide detective the late. Great loose smit is brought in to take a look at the case. The two of you separately come up with very similar conclusions. It's the famous loose loose-knit intruder theory. When i when when i testified for the grand jury and then He has he's testified. I guess before. I did some different day. I testified Afterwards they said that loose-knit wanted to speak with me and over in colorado springs. Great guy really. Great guy and So they drove me over there and I knock on his door and he comes to the door and he said introduce ourselves. Johnny said i don't know how you did. It took me ten months ten months. You came up with this in four days. Four five days whatever wherever was and he says. And you didn't see everything. As and i've got everything i got everything here. I i'd like to go through the case of powerpoint presentation and with you so it'd be great so i went down in his basement. He went through the whole case and even everything but things. I didn't see i just i. I just Certain had to make assumptions Ah everything i just fit and then they will coming out that you know that That and myself that the family was religious. Like that we were were being pulled into the ramseys because of Our fate because of faith. And now w- we've been investigators of all types and we'll we'll arrest religious people don't don't You don't care but but we don't like your wrongful convictions. And and destroying the lives of you know of of people. i mean. it's terrible to lose your child but now to be to be accused of killing Killing your child and and and that's when you get into nick. They like social media where it can be dangerous. Lot of social media can be good where you can develop help and actually can help law enforcement with leads people discussion and there's been some websites been very very successful but they got others which can totally could jeopardize investing investigation and shape the attitude of of people right after that to. I'm on a train going up to new york and and there's a guy in front of me and this is after i did in a now now some back and and and on the night of the was like the head on the night of the crime passy was with was without her lover. And i'm seeing. What so. I wanna get to new york. I was was passing having an affair with some guy. You just not telling me what are you talking about. And i said this guy but it's one of these rag tabloid things. I saw this on. Now it's garbage garbage can see how people see that kind of crap you know and and and and start believing you start believing in it and you can't you can't sway their their their opinion at all. There's almost always a rise in break ins during the holidays. That's why simplisafe home security is having a huge sale forty percent off any simplisafe system and a free security camera recently. Us news and world report called the best home. Security of two thousand twenty is also one c. nets editors choice for home security and was named best of two thousand and twenty by forbes and popular mechanics. The system has an arsenal of sensors and cameras. That protect every inch of your home. You can set it up yourself in about thirty minutes. It super easy. Then simply safe's security specialists they take over. They monitor your home around the clock. They'll be ready to send emergency help. The moment there's alarm we love simply safe. We use simply safe. Not only at our homes but here in the garage studios why because simplisafe has high quality equipment. It's easy to set up and most importantly great camera footage. How many cases have we covered on our show where they have camera footage. But it's not high quality get forty percent off simply safe plus a free security camera today by visiting simplisafe dot com slash karaj co today that simplisafe dot com slash garage simply safe dot com slash g. a. r. a. g. e. protect yourself and protect your loved ones with simplisafe. Do you think we will ever know who killed jonbenet. I hope so. I mean i don't hear things of yeah if they brought. I had some good suspect. They had one good suspect there. They had several. I mean The place was full of a sex offender all around the areas. Where we're patsy john. We're living there but then there was one guy who who committed suicide He had access to stun gun. See the police. Discount that slew smit when over. The stun gun showed me. They did test with a medical doctor on pigs Using a stun gun showing the mocked similarities. Here i mean hopefully you know. Dna familial dna or something. We'll you know we'll solve that that case one day but i don't know if they're they're working and i hear once in a while here like a new attorney general come in we're gonna take a new look at the case of the the a prosecutor wants to take a look at the case but you know hopefully i mean It can look at the golden state case. I mean after all these years. I mean we worked at case the you know i just worked i worked one was the east area rapist. Rapes that that he was he was doing and We didn't wasn't responsible. Just dna dna got him was after so many years. I police officer was responsible. We're all very excited for the release of your new book. The killer's shadow the fbi's hunt for a white supremacist serial killer. Can you tell us a little bit about your latest book. This is a different kind of serial killer and it was a case that The first case that the bureau would give me only because they've of supervisor on the civil rights division Squad up at headquarters knew we knew each other from milwaukee division around the same swat team together and i. He knew i was doing this. Research on serial murders and going into prisons and he calls me. see if i could be Be of help so this would be different nick. This would not be a profile so much as it would be an assessment So you got to kind of do your l. show years ago is called. This is your life you know and And they would do his background of a puddle background guy so i would go up to headquarters and And there was a lot of pressure because my screw this thing. I'm just starting to get going here. And now that not. Everyone is supportive within the organization of me doing any of this. This research They just don't understand. You know what the purpose of it is even though we're helping local police on the later international police departments here so so the assessment is is that the the latest thing with franklin is is that he's linked to over twenty homicides. He traveled he's he's prolific bankrobber unlike serial killers a particular comfort zone for the crimes. This guy is all over the place. He's all over the map He's a bomber some of those cases embalming He is a bank bank robber prolific. Bank robber He is a turns out to be an excellent shot with a rifle In in in fact you actually shot with only one. I because when he as a youth he lost the side of is In his right high in an accident people say it's said it was a bicycle now isn't a bicycle accident. It was a shade and all window shade with a spring inside things. Playing with his brother in the spring came out. pop them right in the eye. Mother took him to the hospital. A mother who extremely abusive to him a father extremely again very abusive him and his brothers and sisters mother takes him to the hospital. The doctor says can't do anything right now. Is this temporary but bringing back a couple of months we'll do. Some surgery will make as good as new. She doesn't do that. She doesn't take them back as a young child to the hospital. The ends up losing his sight and even A way to overcompensate. The loss was site is to be an excellent shot. He wanted to be a police officer to another one and said oh another guy who wants to be an officer and When when he hurts to a neighbor who was a police officer that he couldn't join because of the loss of a one i he extremely angry and bitter towards towards his mother hated paid his mother and his father. That's why he would he would. He would change his name to joseph. His name was james. Von would change his name to joseph paul paul franklin and then He then was gravitated to these Take aka a different. These radical hate groups american nazi party passing out literature. Today he would have a field day with the internet access But then what he realized was because he was paranoid that these organizations were pretty much Infiltrated by fbi. Fbi informants keeping tabs on them on these organizations back there back then and they were primarily talking the talk but not walking the walk and he got became frustrated and decided go out on his own and and the so-called birth of the the lone wolf lone wolf Criminal and it just started by paling. Interracial couples i and it was up in maryland. He makes them. But then that was after the nasc- then i that was the last time it used as from then on in he would It would shock using various firearms. He he shot Larry flint the of a slip Hustle magazine he shot. He shot him he shot vernon jordan Civil rights leader At at the time he wrote a threatening letter to to jimmy carter. Secret service was When he wasn't identified yet was was trying to figure out. You know who done it. So what i said was with him that the long and short of it is i came up in the suspect predicted where he would go in the in the country and that would be now now that he's a fugitive. He's a top ten Yeah he committed these crimes all around these other areas. But he's gonna be homing pigeon now. He's going back to mobile. It's going back to mobile and to florida. He may not be robbing banks. Because we'll have a lot of these banks be notified staked out and But the teletype then was teletype s- Was an internet. Tell teletype goes out. He's spotted in mobile alabama agent. Charge of the office calls me and wants to know the name of the bank or savings alone. I think this guy is going to be robbing. I said watch i. i can't. I don't know i didn't even know city was in. I i tell you what cities and so he was there. spotted him surveillance cameron blood bank and then they Passed out flyers on through all these different blood banks and in the deep south out in florida. And that's where he would be. You'd be spotted in a blood bank so Got him their coach deal. They'll say they'll coach the the agent on the interview a little bit But then i got to interview him Later on in the late eighties ninety ninety ish with with Secret service agent. You would have thought nick secret. Service would have had a behavioral science unit Over the years they did not have a unit like we they. They had not done research like we were doing with violent crimes At all and so. I did a couple of cases. Four secret service over the years that turned out pretty and so then they sent down a guy. Great great guy passed away Ken baker secret service and and we conducted some research on assassin interview. Squeaky fromm who shot four sara. Jane moore shot forward or at the bremmer. Who shot george wallace. James earl ray schalk. Dr martin luther luther king and other assassination style of killings. And that's why we interviewed frankly because he had fascination style of killing and The problem is is that and we come up with this killer. Shadows that to this day. He still casts a shadow along shadow Because there are others like amount. There is nice executed two thousand and thirteen but There are others who that law enforcement come across now and then who Are emulating people. You know like him who who are being influenced today not so much like the old days where would be in some some hall room. We're meeting or somebody someone's basement. Now it's on the internet where you can have Have hundreds and hundreds of sites these Racist sites antisemitic sites. Where where someone can gravitate to that and not everyone will go out and perpetrate acts of violence. But but someone may in someone will. We'll see that and and take action like a you know like this joseph paul franklin character. So it's and so it's much more difficult today to investigate them. In the old days you had an organization now you have you have someone who could be influencing others. But it's not they're not tied into there's no hierarchy. There's no leader and soldiers. You know that candidates organized crime. Even you don't have you know. Have anything like that. So it makes it extremely difficult for law enforcement and law enforcement. Resources are very skimpy particularly after nine. Eleven emphasis was on Was on international terrorism the d. emphasis on 'cause resources on domestic domestic terrorism. So it's you. It's not over heels. They'll be others other cases on which You know hopefully we can what we can rely on information from the public when they see someone who's becoming obsessed with with hatred and antisemitic anti everything or african americans and it's becoming obsessed with weapons and other maybe weapons of destruction Law enforcement can't be everywhere at every time so they rely on public information from anonymous sources. That that's what they need to follow up leads to see if this person you know if they can will carry out a You know this is a violent act. Kind of like a school shooter. I mean you have certain indicators but you can't always predict for hundred percent you can interact interest intercede it and Take some action family or and give this person counseling or whatever but it's very very difficult very difficult for law enforcement so they so that's what they'll see in this book they'll see the evolution of him. How and kind of like the the Sonny bono in share the beat goes on and the beat goes on. They'll it'll be more. Unfortunately they'll be more probably a cases like this in the future. mr douglas. thank you again for your time today and for doing the interview. You've been more than generous with us here in the garage. Actually have me about and we're working on another one for next year next year. we'll be doing one. They want us to do. Like kinda like an an rule thing like one case that case. I've worked or maybe case to take a look at you know a new case Investigate trying to come up with a solution or so. How many back. As soon as you're done with this next book we'd love to have you back. Thank you so much enjoyed. Keep up the good work. Thank you mr douglas for joining us in the garage. Rob thank you so much for joining us here in the garage. Let him to be a part of your week us. Be a part of your holidays colonel. Do we have recommended reading this week. We have a lot to recommend today first off the true crime garage. Every single episode archive is available for your listening pleasure when you download the free stitcher listening app on your device. That's right over. Four hundred and forty episodes to listen to for free including the last time mr john. Douglas was on the show back in may of two thousand and nineteen in the john. Douglas mind hunter episode number three. Oh to also we will be recommending a batch of john douglas's books. We recommended the killer's shadow last week. And you heard us reference in our discussion this week. Some of his other great books including the cases that haunt us law and disorder and the killer of the table we will have all of those great titles listed on our recommended page at true crime. Garage dot com. Here's us wishing all of you and yours of very safe and happy thanksgiving be good. Be thankful and please don't let simplisafe home. Security is having a huge sale forty percent off any simplisafe system and a free security camera. The system has arsenault of sensors and cameras. That protect every inch of your home and you could set it up yourself in just about thirty minutes. Give forty percent off simplisafe plus a free security camera today by visiting simplisafe dot com slash garage that simplisafe dot com slash garage. Protect yourself protect your loved ones with simplisafe.

fbi susquehanna brewing company las angeles biran terry hobbs forty percent Damon echols jason baldwin jesse miskelly six year jon benet ramsey jen fifteen hundred dollars disney disney mr douglas connex terry ramseys alex hunter john douglas
JONBENT: Christmas Tragedy

The Killing of Marilyn Monroe

34:01 min | 1 year ago

JONBENT: Christmas Tragedy

"Yup and how old is she. It was in resolving the same here at the ransom. No it it was the infamously desperate call for help that has since been heard around the world in the early morning of December twenty. Sixth Nineteen ninety-six. Patsy Ramsey dialed nine. One one to report the apparent kidnapping verse six year old daughter Jon Benet from their home in an a fluent area of Boulder Colorado. I am honey. They get paid by the end of that day. The ramseys found jonbenet's body in in their own basement. A little girl was dead. This was boulder. Colorado this was a little six year old girl who they had been tortured and murdered and left her home. It was a town that didn't even have a homicide department because they didn't have homicides. It was horrified for twenty three years. The death of six-year-old Jon. benet Ramsey has been the most notorious and heartbreaking unsolved murder in American history history and despite thousands of policemen hours unprecedented public interest and a witch hunt directed at her parents. Still the ultimate question question remains unanswered. Welcome to the killing of Jon. Benet Ramsey the final suspects hosted by me Danielle Robea. I'm patsy reinvasion mother. This is patsy Ramsey talking to the media in nineteen ninety seven. I'm Paul that that anyone would think that Jon or I would be involved in such a hideous heinous Crohn's on that. Let me assure you that I did not kill Jon Benet. I did not have anything to do with it. I Loved That Child Oiled with my of my heart and soul over the next twelve installments. You are going to here. What may be the most exhaustive investigation into Jonbenet's murder in decades led by investigative reporter? Doug Lung Keeney through his decades working this case Doug Long. Genie has become a trusted colleague to some of the most knowledgeable insiders this doug talking to a very unlikely Jon benet expert Britt from North Carolina. She goes by the single name. Jameson so with Louis. List of suspects in our ability to actually collect DNA. We could actually actually move this case along significantly. Could actually have a breaker. What do you think the Han a finite list? Now of Moos best. I suspect they have cleared a couple of equal people. But there's more to be done a lot. We will learn much much more about detective. Smith's suspect spreadsheet in future episodes but before diving into the investigation. We I need to go back to the beginning and the details of of that awful December Twenty six morning twenty three years ago. My name is Cyril Wecht. I'm a physician I specialized in Anatomic clinical and forensic pathology at five thirty. Am on the day. Okay after Christmas Jon. Benet Ramsey's mother Causey Ramsey. I'd gotten up to make breakfast for them. She came down and she saw a piece taper a regular standard size eight and a half by eleven piece of paper She Got To note and said we represent a small foreign faction. That's the way it begins and then it goes on from there and makes a demand of money she patsy Ramsey she rushes up and indeed her daughters not in her bed. She Awakens her husband. They do a quick search they call the Koch Patsy Ramsey's nine one one call. Some of which you heard at the beginning of this episode has been the subject of two decades worth of conjecture and debate. Here's former supervisory deputy United States Marshal. Mark McLeish Patsy Ramsey had called nine one one when she found the ransom note. And so the Nine one offer astor what's going on and then Patsy gave their address so then the second time the operate said what's going on there Ma'am and pass response that we have a kidnapping. Hurry hurry please. Cops come to the House then about six o'clock in the morning. They searched the house and do not find the girl. Komo Robert Whitson and I was on call detective supervisor in one thousand nine hundred ninety six when Jon Benet Ramsey case occurred heard was six o'clock or so in the morning I received a call that there was a kidnapping and so Got Hold a two detectives who responded and then I responded. I went to the police department and met with the night shift supervisor. Her and also started making some phone calls so I didn't get up to the house. It was probably probably around nine o'clock in the morning we're almost from the moment. Boulder police responded to Patsy. Ramsey's nine one one call catastrophic mistakes were made although the case was still kidnapping normal police protocol would dictate that the ramseys house should have been treated as a crime scene as detective Whitson explains. It was not Gwen. I went I mean in the House I actually was a little surprised because there were three or four adults standing there and I asked one of the detectives who are these people and he. He told me that they were friends of the ramseys. At that point one of the mistakes I made was I should have took those people someplace else else. Either to the Police Department or to one of the other neighbor's homes that lived nearby but I should have had them removed from the house at that point. Of course we're working under the assumption that disappeared to be a legitimate kidnapping and also the movie ransom had just come Out A couple of weeks before and there were a lot of similarities as far as the movie ransom with the information we had at that talk. Detective Whitson also remembers both Patsy and John at this stage remaining relatively calm. I met yet with Mr Ramsey. He was very calm and collected. I only talk to Patsy Ramsey for probably a minute or less and I did was teller that we were going to do everything possible to get their daughter back she basically was sitting in a it was on the first level and she was sitting in a chair and you could tell she had been crying detectives and I went up to Jonbenet s bedroom. Just did a real quick cursory look shut the door. Put crime scene tape over that I specifically told Mr Ramsey. Nobody goes in that room. I also asked him for samples of his and Mrs Ramsey's handwriting. It gave me to know pads and I didn't even look at him that at that point we drive around the area to see if there's anybody suspicious or anybody looked like it could possibly be involved folks. I have to tell you that I was told that police officers had searched the house and didn't find anything. Uh with the New Year right around the corner. It's time to set some new goals for yourself and taking care of your mental. Health should be a top priority. Think about it this way you wouldn't hesitate. Hey to go to a doctor for professional care if you had a broken arm. Your mental health deserves the same attention. That's where better help comes in. It's the world's largest counseling service this that matches you with a licensed accredited board-certified therapist with better help. You can schedule weekly video or phone sessions and get timely thoughtful responses from your personal counselor. Never sit on someone else's couch again instead. Get therapy from the comfort of your own living room with better help. You're not tied to the nine nine to five of traditional therapy. You can log into your account any time to message your counselor better. Help's mission is to provide everyone with easy affordable. Private it access to professional counseling. Anytime anywhere get started today our listeners get ten percent off your first month at better help dot com slash Jay. That's better help. H. E. L. P. dot com slash j VR support for this podcast comes from NBC. Last fall on manifest best. The disappearance of flight eight to wait came. TV's biggest mystery. Where does the passengers go for five and a half years? Why had none of them aged a day? Monday January very sixth. Last year's number one new drummer returns with a mind blowing new season. The passengers of Eight to eight have delayed their death but time is running out. Can they solve the mystery. It also save the passengers get up to speed for the amazing new season of manifest with manifest the official. Podcast your deep dive into all things manifest. I show Creator Jeff. Rake and his team of writers. Have the answers to the biggest questions from season. One plus behind the scenes Intel on. What's to come? Check out manifest the official show podcast. Listen or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And don't miss the return of manifest Monday January sixth on NBC As detectives were about to find out that initial search had been anything but satisfactory even as the house filled with with everyone from police to friends of the family. The broken body of little jonbenet was lying behind a door in the basement. Here's Mark McLeish mm-hmm. It is little bit unusual allies sought. They're dealing with a kidnapping because you had a ransom. No but you absolutely want to search the house which they did but it was just a cursory search search every room obviously because it in this governor body. The detective asked John Ramsey to look around. Sif Anything was missing and so he took her friend. They start starred in the basement. I guess starting to basement worked away up. But that's when John Ramsey he went into a room there was a larger room called the train room. Had a the train tracks. Set up an air then which I think was a wine cellar? That wasn't being used as a wine. Cellar was a room that had no windows Nassar John Ramsey founder Johnny's body body. Our team has spoken exclusively to John Ramsey about that terrible morning well it was it was at first reliefs beliefs. I got founder. It was just a flood of thankfulness. And then I pretty quickly realized Komo alive I screen Care Durham sears. Not An you know. Of course I was criticized for disturbing the crime seat. What would you new? Oh it's my daughter. I'm not going to touch her. 'cause I don't want to disturb. The crime scene at is insane that would have been suspicion. Shanna kid big time and and yet the police that was bizarre media criticized me for disturbing the crime scene is just insane local news reporter. Paula Woodward covered the case. From the START I was an investigative reporter for twenty five to thirty years at Ku Assay ATV discovered the body which was fought was so strange. Boulder Police Department really miss him because they just didn't know how to do it they left asked after ascertaining that they didn't think she was in the house. They did a cursory search and her father was told by the one detective in the House. A Don't you look around stupid things out of place which is so strange so he went to the basement with a friend and he found her body and it was just in talking with him. What a terrible thing as apparent defined your order channeled? Spotty this is detective Robert Whitson then When the call came in that they had found Jonbenet's body I another detective drove to the Ramsey's house and the house was secured women? I walked in the front door. People were standing immediately really inside the door. There's like a foyer area on the first level I remember Mrs Ramsay was holding a Jon Benet. There's like a mother's Wail. She's just crying profusely when he asked the minister he would ask her to put Jon Benet down. She laid the body down. I remember Them having to assist her into the other room she was basically basically just so distraught. Lamp was hard for her to walk on her own power. If discovering the body of your six Israel child isn't terrible enough. The horror was compounded by the sickening injuries. Jon Benet had sustained forensic pathologist Cyril Wecht and former sheriff's investigator Johnson Augustyn tacos through those injuries. In what may for some listeners be upsetting detail. Findings are autopsy. Ed revealed a rope around the neck and one into that rope was tied to a loop around the freight wrist. There was A factor on the top of the skull About seven eight inches in length frontal to accept that means from the front of his Co. forehead region and to the rear part of the skull there were two stun-gun marks found on her face and on her back of which both injuries were very similar. Further pathological findings noted by the coroner included chronic chronic inflammation of the lining of the vaginal wall called the vegetable Muchota very delicate lining there where some wood fibers that were found inside her vaginal bulb indicating that she had been sexually assaulted. So when you put just that piece together somebody but he hit stun gun her. Somebody had sexually assaulted her. Somebody had strangled her and then somebody subsequently had do some blunt object to strike her ahead. Cracking those to excel lobes boulder. Police were no longer dealing with kidnapping. They were dealing with the sexual rule assault torture and murder of an innocent six year old girl and from the start. It seems detectives in this sleepy peaceful town or completely -pletely unable to cope. No one of the investigators have any homicide experience. Everyone on that case probably seven or eight of them initially none of them had homicide experience and logic would dictate to you need somebody with home. Shot experience inhabit as John Saint Augustine. Who would later investigate the case alongside detective loose Smith Explains Doug Lung Guinea many of the later problems problems and controversies that have dogged the case sprang from the initial blunders made by the Boulder police force? When you're doing an investigation nation? Let's like this where the initial call is a kidnapping. It is crucial that the crime scene in our terms and in the law enforcement profession when we use a term called forensic sterility and what that means is that you try to maintain that crime scene as best you can India event that somebody either loves somethin- Anthony took something and so what happens in this case is that we have a major contamination of the crime scene. Because not only do we not remove the family from the crime scene when the call comes in we actually allow the family to introduce into the crime scene. Their friends their their pastor. Astor is allowed to come into the crime scene so there was never any real security of the crime scene at the onset of this investigation to compound the problem even further further. What happens is that law enforcement asks a potential suspect who should have been separated in place in a car in question to go look for things out of the ordinary that should have been the role of either the investigators? The crime scene techs who would have been processing that scene but instead John Ramsey's the one that then you know provides that contamination that additional contamination of which is why this case twenty three years later a your is still unsolved because of all the screw ups that happen in the onset of this investigation The problems were compounded. When reports of the little girls brutal death reached the media? Suddenly Jon Benet Ramsey was a household name around the world world. Here's local reporter and author of we have your daughter. Paula Woodward by the Monday following her body being found on the prayer Thursday. Stay that Monday. The networks were already involved. It all happened so fast and it was so competitive and all of a sudden boom the networks were there and within a few days we learned that the networks were interested. Her Child Area Patch pictures had been leaked and sold sold to the media photographers. Who took them and it was just out of control chaos here? Was this beautiful. Little Girl in child did it. Paget pitchers and that didn't go over. Well it was immediate. Once the national media was there that it became international. Happen very fast. Little girl murdered. AG- founding are home note left that she was kidnapped but she wasn't she was murdered. There are child Giddy pageant pictures and video and everybody throughout the world world. Is there obviously somebody. One or more people were giving the news media information. Some of it was accurate. Some of it was inaccurate. The media certainly was not at. Its best this murder happened. During the Christmas holidays yes were more juror. Experienced orders are on vacation and so a lot of inexperienced reporters were on the case when the murder first happened and and it continued that way. Huge part of what made the murder so gruesomely fascinating for the press. Were several bizarre details that lay at the heart of the case. A ransom note had been left at the scene. Not just a ransom note but a two and a half page ransom note trended fairly neatly with just strange things in Doug Long Guinea and Jameson. Leave the ransom. Note is still one of the most valuable pieces pieces of evidence. We have Mr Ramsey. Listen carefully we're a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction. We respect your business but not the country it serves at this time. We have your daughter in our possession. She is safe and unharmed. If you WANNA see her nineteen ninety seven you must follow our instructions and to the letter you will withdraw hundred eighteen thousand dollars from your account. A hundred thousand dollars. We'll be in one hundred dollar bills and the remaining eighteen thousand in twenty dollars bills. Make sure you bring in adequate size at Shea to the bank. When you get home you put the money in around paper bag? I will call you between eight and ten. Am Tomorrow instruct. You on delivery. The delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be arrested. If we monitor you getting the money early we mike call you early to range earlier delivery of the money and hence an earlier picked up of your daughter. Any deviation of my instructions will result in immediate execution of your daughter. You also be denied. Her remains for proper Barrio. The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you so advise buys you not provoke them speaking to anyone about your situation such as police FBI etc will result in your daughter being beheaded if we catch you talking to a stray dog. She dies if you're bank authorities. She dies with the money is in any way marked or tampered with she dies. You will be scanned for electric devices. And if any are found she dies you can try to deceive us but be warned that we are familiar with law enforcement countermeasures at tactics. You stand a ninety nine percent chance of killing your daughter if you tried to outsmart US follow our instructions and you stand one hundred the percents chance of getting her back. You and your family are under constant scrutiny as well as the authorities. Don't try to grow a brain John. You're not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult. Don't underestimate us. John News that good southern common sense of yours is up to you now John It's assigned victory s BTC. Yeah it is a desire. No Yeah but David important. nope beach I used to say if the gift left behind. Because it's his brain article. He is the he would sit down and he would write this note in this particular and everything and it was important to Lou renite outward now but things got even stranger when it was found that the ransom note had been written on paper from a notepad inside the house former deputy. US Marshall and statement analysis expert Mark McLeish his poured over the details of that note for over two decades. He explains several other oddities in its language and content the first thing I noticed before even analyzed and a note is that it was very long like two and a half pages long ransom notes are very short. You know we have give daughter. Is that much. Money will not be in contact for this. No as I mentioned went on for two and a half pages contain information. You generally don't sign in a ransom note. It's such as make sure you bring an adequate size attache to the banks town the Ramseys to be rested at stop just as appear in legitimate ransom notes and and then we also have to remember. The note was written on their stationery with their pen in their house. Now most kidnappers right. Durant's note ahead of time and then they bring yeah no wisdom that this person entered their residents while they were out to dinner at night. Sounds and paper. wrote this ransom note and wave them to return no- he looks for a pen and paper in the middle of the night they figures not a problem. These are colleges associated. People have pen and paper. He finds it he starts art charade. A ransom note doesn't like the beginning of it because he knows one day. It'll be a communication of great interest starts again and that's when he races note we represent a small foreign faction. Another strange detail was the amount of money the supposed kidnappers of Jon Benet were demanding for her return. Paula Woodward explains in the ransom. Note the two and a half patriots and note there was a specific demand for money. One hundred hundred eighteen thousand dollars which was just very strange. Very mysterious added to the mystery of this crime. Why would someone asks for one hundred and eighteen eight thousand dollars and initially? The police leaked that John Ramsey had received a bonus that year in data amount which which wasn't true it was close to that amount but not that amount John Ramsey was a millionaire. And here's this ransom. Note asking for the return of Estado for one hundred eighteen thousand dollars. It didn't make sense. It's still doesn't make sense now. Everything a person says has a meaning and there's a reason why they use one hundred eighteen thousand dollars dollars. I mean first of all. It's a very low amount to me. I believe the Ramseys at that time were worth maybe six million dollars so one hundred eighteen thousand dollars very the low amount. We expect him to say a million maybe half also why one hundred eighteen thousand I mean why not just a hundred thousand one hundred sixty thousand. Yes just very very odd odd number frenzy. Pathologist Cyril Wecht outlines the case against the intruder theory this intruder knows how to get it into the house there in Boulder without causing any disturbance. He knows where the little girls bedrooms is. He's able to awaken her. Take her from Maroon without causing any disturbance her nine year old brother. Burke Ramsey is just right next door not awakening him at all. Now get this picture picture. The police palm side detectors at the house looking for the body of this little girl never knew there was a door never knew there was a room but under the intruder theory. We are to believe that shooter having accomplished everything knowing about this back a set of stairs knowing about the back room. He knew all this he took the little girl there and then having had his perverted sexual pleasure with the little girl he decides. He's going to kill her and then he's going to write a ransom of forgot to bring a pen and paper. Didn't even bring the rope the rope as from material right there in the house he forgot Jon. Benet Ramsey's body you. You just wrote a ransom note demanding money. You went to war of his trouble. You had the behavioral strengthen in control to accomplish all of this and the dead of the night so. You're not flustered or hurried. You're doing all of this stuff and now you've written the not manning this money and then you leave you. Don't take the body. Take the body. Put Him in the back of your car. So it's been a sore throat in Ford and awards thrown in a river toward the lake. Do do whatever you want to. Suddenly John and Patsy Ramsey after losing their daughter in the most horrific of circumstances found themselves prime suspect back in her murder John Ramsey patsy Ramsey Burke Ramsey and Jon Benet Ramsey were the only known people in the house in her body was found with homicides wanted the first thing detect Tuesday look at. Who's in the area? Who's near the scene or who's in the home with? That's where it happened. And so they looked at John and Patsy Ramsey but it in my opinion go way out of control in that it seemed that John and Patsy Ramsey were the only ones they were looking at for her daughter's murder. Here's fellow. Detective Johnson Augustyn who outlines just a few the reasons why Lou smit believed intruder killed Jon Benet typically in my experience and I've probably investigated well over over a few hundred death investigations. I would tell you that when you're looking at a murder like his parents typically if the parents are involved either say something. That was an accident accident. They may say something like I struck down but never have I seen in my career. Anything where stun gun strangulation in a blow to the Eh all happened as well as sexual assault they can find no prior application of the row. That was used to strangle Jon Benet. Meaning they found no other rogue in the house matching their wealth that was used to strangle her. The tape that was used to put over her mouth. There was no prior application. That tape found anywhere in Hong either. And why would the parents if they were planning on killing their daughter. Why would they take her from her bedroom? Sexually assaulted or stun-gun stun-gun her twice strangled her and then subsequently striker head and then stage your body in the basement in a cellar an then go write a ransom. No none of that made sense in her twenty three years reporting on in conducting inducting her own investigation into the case. Paula Woodward his come to know John as Father John Ramsey very well. John Ramsey has a very deep faith in spite of everything that has happened to him. His daughter's murder has become his life but he also has made sure sure that he has time in his life for Burke in his two other children John Andrews and Melinda that's very important to him he has remarried worried a wonderful woman after patsy died in the early two thousands shown elise her killer will be found. She doesn't know how he just know when you just know where that is part of his belief of faith and I guess that's the best way I can express listen. I think it's critically important that any possible leads are checked out if someone has the courage and tenacity to do so this this is such an important case because of all the wrong with that anyone who does something to further the investigation on this case should be lighted. It's really important and somebody knows something. One of the big questions in this case is with the family family did not do it to get right. Is it an intruder. Are there other suspects out there. That could have been involved in this. Are there other suspects that need to be looked at absolutely absolutely. Should there be other suspects Dean as collected absolutely and the problem in this case is that law enforcement was so focused on the family that they never allow themselves to truly investigate the facts of this case still today. There are still a number of leads that have never been followed up by law law enforcement next time on the killing of Jon Benet the final suspects eliminating names. There was a person who had committed suicide. And they were looking at that person because he had a stun gun in hand high-tech shoes. It can just after a very forceful message from district attorney. Alex Hunter who said we'll find you and then the next day he's either dead or concurred he would break ins drew windows he would bring duct tape put them he'd have Krikah white cores to type victims hands and feet he used a stun gun worked for sheer company had one case where he attempted rape female her bedroom. Parents were a separate bedroom red room. The killing of Jon Benet the final suspects. Rex is hosted by me. Danielle Romay executive produced by Dylan Howard. And Not sprouts and is a production of water studios and Endeavour Audio Executive -secutive producers also. Include Tom Freestone. Doug Lunn Guinea Susan Bennett James Robertson and Andy Tillett. The series is written by Dominic reporting by Doug. Monteiro the series is mixed and engineered by Sean Kravis and Sam Ada. There is so much more to the story. And you don't WanNa Miss Anything. I can assure sure you subscribe to the killing of Jon. Benet a final suspects wherever you get podcasts. If you have any the information that could help our investigators and the ramseys identify jonbenet's killer. Please help us at tips at justice for Jon. BENET DOT COM

John Ramsey Jon Benet Jon Benet Ramsey Causey Ramsey murder kidnapping Ramseys Jon. benet Ramsey Jon Boulder Paula Woodward Burke Ramsey jonbenet Cyril Wecht Mark McLeish John Detective Whitson Patsy Ramsey
JonBenet Ramsey ////// The Autopsy

True Crime Garage

1:22:14 hr | 1 year ago

JonBenet Ramsey ////// The Autopsy

"The park has network is rereleasing forty. Five classic episodes from their critically acclaimed series. Remarkable lives tragic deaths as part of a new limited series. He's famous fates famous. Fates will tell amazing. Stories of some of history's most influential lives and shocking deaths from Marilyn Monroe and Harry Houdini to Vincent Van Gogh and Al Capone. These episodes are all free and only available on spotify go to spotify dot com slash famous his face and follow now Jon Benet Ramsey. She was strangled with little miss. Colorado victim the Jon benet Ramsey intruder. Jon Benet Ramsey fill. The parents in any event has been held more than I know who is responsible breath after the John Ramsey and fleet white found job as body in the wine cellar located in the basement. John Hurry ran up the stairs. Taking the body auty with him placing the body on the floor of the kitchen. Detective Linda Art then moves the body to the living room. Then aren't orders fleet white you to stand by the door to the basement and guard. The door. Fleet white goes to the door but for some reason runs downstairs to retrieve the duct tape up from the basement floor. This is all taking place between one oh four. PM and one twenty three PM at approximately one thirty PM. Priscilla white calls her home. I'm guessing here captain but this is very likely to halt burke leaving the White House and returning to the ramseys around this same time officers Ron Walker and Larry Mason returned to the scene Saul Giannis Body and then searched the home afterward securing the house shortly after the body was found John. Andrew Ramsay Melinda Ramsey Stewart long arrive at the Ramsey House in Boulder Colorado between one thirty and two P M A detective over. Here's John on the phone. John called a pilot his pilot telling him to ready the plane. This to me is very strange behavior from somebody who has just recovered the body of their six year old daughter right around two PM John Ramsey signs a consent form to search the Ramsey home. Just touching on that that plane plane call to the pilot for a little bit here. The the detectives had to stop John Ramsey from leaving the the Ramsey family from leaving leaving telling the RAMSEYS. Hey you should go anywhere. We have a murder investigation. The crime scenes your home. And you know they're not going to tell them this up front and center here but obviously they're suspects Ryan. I think the way the Ramseys were actually thinking was Elena. Georgia was what they considered a home. So we have this bad thing that happened. We WanNA get back home. We don't want to be here we don't want to be in this house But that does like you said Hellyer investigation. I don't think that enters the investigation of the house or the crime scene but it hinders investigation station and being able to talk with them Adequately yeah and then regarding this consent to search form for the the search warrant if you will or because this makes. It seem like John's being very cooperative. Yeah I technically don't believe this to be an actual search warrant. You know one that you bring before a judge the judge signs off on it. I believe this just a consent to search form signed by John Ramsey. The owner of the home. This is just one of those those other little details within this case that I absolutely cannot stand. Is it regardless you know depending on whose magnifying glass you look at these details from you get a different story on what's going on here. Where the Ramsey defenders I would tell you look? This is proof positive that they were extremely cooperative. Don't bother nick with worrying about that. They wanted to hop on a plane and fly far away. Because this shows how cooperative they are they were signing a consent to search their home form. They have nothing to hide. There are an open book but then the ones that want to come after the ramseys point out there not really an open book because John Later says that that he thought he was signing off on a on on saying that yes you can perform an autopsy on the body right. So it's it's just frustrating. That's one of the most frustrating pieces of this case. Well I think one of the frustrating things is when people say only one huntings the truth right. Can we agree on that. It can't be both. Yeah I wildly. Where they say there's three sides to the truth there's yours mine nine and the actual truth not always But I think there's just the truth but I think with the whole wanting to go back home. He didn't go back home like they did to. The COP said you don't do that. That's a bad idea. But it's so stupid with this case it's like a non-point like yeah he's like let's go back home a don't do that okay. We're not going back home but they didn't. They didn't stay in the House that nobody nobody wanted to be in that house. Oh and I cannot blame them. I and I don't even know of John Ever went back in that house after that day. 'cause they Ended up staying with their friends. But but let's also be clear that around this time. They pulled John into a room by himself and they talked to him for a while and at some point they talked to burke by himself for a while so they do talk to burke. This would be at the he never comes back to the Ramsey's house right so they talk to burke one on one my understanding is it was straight up one on. I'm one burke was still at the friends house right. And he's over there you know playing with the other kids in their distracting him that I that's a troubling Ling aspect to this case too because you can look at just that whole situation in two different ways one are you protecting your child burke by removing him from the situation that could scar him for life. Something extremely traumatizing or are you purposely. Putting him away so that he doesn't disclose some information right by you eventually. Let him talk to the cops one on one John Zaven Room. I'm with him right. So if you're so worried about what he's going to say or if if you knew that he just smashed his six year old sister's head with a flashlight slight you don't let them sit in a room with detective by himself or with friends and others that he could share that information with Willie daily. I mean he's nine years old right. You're not there when they ship them off and also that's not just the ramseys thought process of all Burke Outta here. This was a this was the cops and the Ramseys gone. He needs to be removed from this site. The cops suggested that he should be removed from the the Ramsey home. No I think it was. It was like a collective effort who was a collective idea. I don't think it was just as simple as the Ramsey saying. Hey He needs to get out of here. One thing. I will point now here that I think is very troubling on behalf of the Boulder police and on the RAMSEYS is. If you're working under the scenario the child has been kidnapped from your home. A ransom has been called for in a letter. Wouldn't you want to protect your your remaining child. Wouldn't you feel that that there should be some kind of security charity for this other child rather than sending him off to some friend's house rise it seems it. It's another situation where we can point out that the boulder police clearly did not know how to respond to a kidnapping situation where a ransom is being called called for now but then the other day I think people that are pointing at ramseys constantly. You don't know what it would be like to lose a six year old daughter or how. Yeah you'd react to what you'd be thinking about. I think it'd be hard to think about anything and you go. Oh well they ship them away. So they're not protecting their son. Well it might not even be held to think properly so I think some of their actions right. That's what I mean. That's when the boulder police should have stepped in and I said no this. Is this this home right now secured because we have law enforcement presence here. He safe here right. I I agree and they should have done a better job of training when they got to the scene. Initially they should cleared the whole house and then they would have found her and then the crime crime scene one have been contaminated in there also. What had enough officers? Where you're not having her father pick her up and contaminate evidence and and then have the mother cry over her and contaminate evidence have the detective pick up the victim? Right and contaminate evidence. I mean it's that's pretty. Well not only did. Linda aren't move the body after John moved the body and this is important to the autopsy but she allowed someone to take a blanket as you know sign of To protect their child or no remorse or whatever whatever whatever however many different ways you wanna look at it. She allowed someone to take a blanket and play said over the body once it was removed to move to the living room. Yeah and then. To further that Johnny's feet were still sticking out from the blanket from the bottom of the blanket and lint. I believe Linda aren't told someone to cover up the feet as well so they took a Colorado avalanche the hockey team. They either took a hockey sweater or or sweat shirt and placed it over the feet of the body so what that means to the layperson basically any hairs fibers anything like that. That could have been on. That blanket could have been on that sweat shirt or sweater now is on could be on her body and or clothing. Yeah so it's just truly a mess now. Shortly after John on signs this consent to search form the ramseys leave their home they go to stay with the furnishings remember. We discussed the FERNS. They showed up early that morning. To the Ramsey. Home this The ramseys going to the furnace includes John's older children Johnny Andrew Ramsay and Melinda Ramsey and her boyfriend as well now sometime that afternoon John Ramsey calls and requests a visit from Michael Bynum who is reported to be John Ramsey's close friend and a corporate attorney. It is during this visit so Michael Bynum. He agrees to this visit and his during this visit that same afternoon that John Hires Michael Bynum to represent him and Mr Stor bynum advises the Ramseys at that time that they need to get additional attorneys rival. You're I think you're missing. One step. He actually got a call their lawyer GONNA call. It wasn't hired at the time but but that's why he suggested that John gets lawyer because he got a call from a contact that he had inside the police department. That said they're just trying to make this about you guys. And that's it. And that's when he suggested you need to get a lawyer on December twenty sixth nineteen ninety-six at the home of John and Patsy Ramsey. This is from the report these are the words words of pathological John e Meyer. MD He says the body of the six year old female was first seen by me after I was called to address identified. NFL A seven fifty five Fifteenth Street in Boulder Colorado arrived at the scene approximately eight PM and entered the house where the descendants body was located at approximately approximately eight twenty PM initially viewed the body in the living room of the house. The descendant was lying on her back on the floor covered by a blanket and the Colorado avalanche sweatshirt on removing these two items from the top of the body. The deceit was found to be lying on her back with her arms extended ended up over her head. The head was turned to the right. A brief examination of the body disclosed a ligature around the neck and ligature around the right right. I also noted was a small area of abrasion or contusion below the right ear on the lateral aspect of the right cheek. A prominent imminent dried abrasion was present on the lower left neck. After examining the body. I left the residence at approximately eight thirty PM at ten and forty five. PM on December. Twenty six. The body of six-year-old Jon. benet Ramsey is removed from the family's home before we move onto December twenty seventh seventh captain. I WanNa make sure that I point out here in regards to contamination of the body that it has been noted by several people. This is not one of these items. It's in dispute or up for debate. This is across the Board John Ramsey Patricia Ramsey. Linda aren't and fleet. Elite white all touched the body before it was examined right and John Ramsey and Patricia Ramsey touched the body several times. I'm not pointing winning that out to indicate guilt or to indicate that the ramseys were trying to cover something up. I think it would be a one hundred percent natural astral reaction to want to go to your child to touch your child. I'm just pointing it out for the purpose of evidentiary value. Yeah I mean it compromises. The scene we're not saying that to cover up anything that compromises the scene and And then we also know where we're starting from so the following is from Steve Thomas's book. This is inside the Ramsey murder investigation. Steve Thomas was one of the leading detectives on the case. This is from page forty one and it says it was the morning of December twenty seventh. The little body was I removed from a locked yellow outer covering then from an inner black bag. The paper sacks were removed from the hands and feet and Meyer Liar. Remember he is the pathologist began describing his findings. The victim weighed forty. Five pounds was three feet. Eleven inches tall and had green eyes is in. Some Green Garland was caught in her blonde hair. A single loop of white cord was around her right wrist tied on top of the sleeve but so loosely. The doctor easily slid it free. There were fifteen half inches between that loop and a loop uh on the other end which once apparently had bound the left wrist a white cord of the same type was wrapped so tightly around the throat and neck that a deep horizontal furrow had been dug into the skin a gold chain and cross tangled in that legislature which was was tied behind the neck to a broken stick. Blond hair was snared in the not and the coroner had to cut the hair in order to remove the cord which which was tied more like a noose than a twisting Gherat. The broken paintbrush used as the garage handle had Korea printed on it when when Meier clipped the nails of each finger. No Blood or tissue was found that would indicate a struggle. He used the same clippers for all the fingers. Although doing so created an issue of cross contamination for optimal DNA purposes separate and sterile clippers should have been used I for each finger. Furthermore we later learned that the coroner's office sometimes used the same clippers on different autopsy subjects. Oh that's that's amazing. acing great job there captain we go through the entire autopsy. I want to kind of go through and Cherry pick some items but to do the entire autopsy would be an exhausting process. It's over three thousand words long so I point that out one to not be lazy about it but to point out that it was an appears to be a thorough document. Constructed by pathologist Zala Gist Meyer Cherry. Picking some items here at the top of the report. Captain we have name Ramsey and I just WANNA say real quickly. If if you're not not willing to take the time to have different clippers on each finger I would assume there are some kind of protocol lets us. If we're GONNA start with that conversation then and yes. It's three thousand words. The I don't know if that means it's thorough. I just meant the document I said. It was a thorough document not a thorough examination. The thing here with these autopsies the gets difficult is your you're solely relying usually on one individual to handle this process properly as you're pointing out here. Follow Protocol and protocol varies depending on what county. You're in what city you're in what state you're in. It's I hate to say this but it truly is a bit of a Willy Nilly process. It's one of those situations where you question the science of it because it's human error and it's and it can be laziness it can be a number of different things and they can be opinion based correct and the other thing too. Is You know I. I had a discussion discussion once with with some people and they said well there were multiple hairs found on the body from different sources and that means that there were multiple killers. And he I said well not necessarily we've done enough of these cases to realize that that random hairs and fibers can end up on people for a number of different reasons that are innocent nature but to further that along and the way the way that I connect this to this conversation is I've reviewed at least two cases where later we learned that one of the hairs found on the body came from the body bag that the body was placed into. And it wasn't cleaned properly or it was a county that was quite poor and they're just re using bodybags all the time. The report states at the top. The name of the the deceit in is Ramsey. Jon Benet date of birth August. Sixth nineteen ninety aged six Sex Female Autopsy Number Ninety six. A you one. Five Five Death Dayton time December twenty six nineteen ninety-six thirteen twenty three so one twenty twenty three. PM This is interesting. They have to well. I guess they don't have to. But per protocol are supposed to put put a time of death on this form whether they come up with an actual time of death or not and in this situation one twenty three. PM is foot on this document because that's considered to be the agreed upon time that the body was in the living room. We know she didn't die at one twenty three PM and in fact there was no real time of death that was truly established. In this case. Steve Thomas Mus says that the detectives were told to work with a window of one. Am to seven am and then he kind of backs into that. A little bit In shrinks that window based off of some information we know to be true. The nine one one call comes in before six. Am so you can go ahead and take away six to seven now you're left with one. Am to six am right. I like that and I do like. You're going WanNa hear me question. Steve Thomas's actions in theories and how he came up with some stuff as we move forward but I wanNA point Out that personally I find his investigation to be interesting in in a sense that there are pieces of it that seem incredibly thorough. Where even on the time line of the day when the bodies found he has multiple times for when people arrive to the house inside his report inside inside his notes? Some people point out. What a terrible job? This detective has multiple times for the same people arriving to the house it. This can't can't be an accurate document. Right Steve Thomas never claims for that to be an accurate document. What he's saying is I've talked to everybody? Somebody tells me person a arrives at this time and then somebody else tells me personnel arrived at that time until I can prove what time that person arrived on leaving both in my report and in my notes both are correct so I I find that portion to be well done on on Mister Thomas's behalf yet because like you said I mean he's not just GonNa Kyi talk to this person. I talked to this person. I believe this person more right. He's same he's leaving it on their to improve other Otherwise and where I find it a little tricky though so is when we have the time of death when he's discussing what he believes or what he claims. The detectives believed to be the time of death. I find that I his theory in the detectives theory kind of wiggle. That theory gets wiggled into their time of death and the window that they create you know. They're making assumptions. That I think are still very dangerous to make in this investigation Wow One being that they say okay. Well we're told to work with this window of one. Am Seven am. We know that it was before six. Am because of the nine one. One Call we've shrunk the window a little they they want to shrink this window and I. We need that window to be much smaller than that. When the Dow unto Shrunken yes so we can really really get an idea of what happened and who needs to be accounted for during that time? The thing that I believe that they do this dangerous to the investigation. is they make the assumption. The the ransom letter was penned after the death and that the letter writing process would take a certain amount of time time and thus they can shrink the window even more. Have you wrote the letter out yourself. I have not but if I sit down and try to write it with my left Tan instead of my right. It's GonNa take me even longer bright but I mean do you have to guess of. How long do you think it would take you to copy? Well you say copy but but there's a chance that the author was was writing it from scratch right. Yeah that they're coming up with a an. Here's the other thing. How many times did they how? How many practice letters could there be? You know they're multiple pages ripped out from that pad of paper I believe it's three. Did they were able to determine that there were three pieces of paper missing between where they believe. The page one of the letter came from and the rough draft. Let's call Ah with the MRS and Mrs Mr Mrs I at the top of the page right but why I think people should do is pull out a couple sheets of paper and copy it start by copying it. That gives you some kind of time frame. It's that's under five minutes so yes it's it's a lot different to create one from scratch but if the perpetrator brought that note with them under five minutes to copy it yeah over eight hours if you have to sit down and watch ransom dirty Harry and speed when you're doing amazing that they didn't find those tapes at the scene of the crime right a right a portable remember those old. TV VCR COMBOS. Yeah Black and white yeah. The the PERP brought it with them. All right sorry. We're we're getting getting off track here. A final diagnosis talk studies blood. Ethanol none detected blood drug screen. No drugs detected final diagnosis cause of death of the six year. Old Female is exceeded by strangulation associated with cranial cerebral. Donald Trump L.. That's the letter. L is a period and Personal Care Company that makes organic period products without the gradients that you can't pronounce an only with certified. Organic cotton L MAKES TAMPONS PADS and liners with organic cotton. Because they believe a natural product it just makes sense for a natural process. They don't use pesticides chlorine fragrances or dyes either. They make their award. Winning organic period care products products easily accessible to women around the world because for every AL product you purchase one is made accessible to a woman or girl who needs it to date. They've made over two hundred million products accessible in counting. So when you get L.. You're part of helping that movement grow. That is why we are proud to be sponsored by Al.. We want to be part of that movement and simply when you get al.. You're going to get a better product for yourself but you're going to do something to make somebody else's life better. What's not to love about that you'll find L. by going to your local target? It's the best looking packaging on the shelf. Look for clear Canister Minister with a gold lid or white bags with the large gold circle on the front or get l.. Organic TAMPONS PADS and liners right now. by going to this is l. dot com slash garage. That's this is l. dot com slash garage. The words this is and then the letter L. L. Dot com slash garage checkout l.. Today making your home beautiful is the ultimate form of self care. Lucky for you Brooklyn is celebrating braiding their days of gifting with daily promotions on different items. I Love Brooklyn and I am a Sheikh Guy. I'm a guy that loves to get a good night's night's sleep and Brooklyn and has been helping me do that for years now. In fact I slept on my Brooklyn and sheets last night. Home of the Internet's favourite sheets Brooklyn and got over for fifty thousand five star reviews and counting. It's luxury sheets. Robes lounge wear towels and more without the luxury markup so this season season why not give the gift of softness and give the gift of Brooke Linen like softness comfort essentials to help you relax Brooke Linen. Has It all and again right now. Brooklyn Dot Com is having their days of gifting where each day they have promotions on different surprise. Item Brooklyn is so confident in their product that all their sheets comforters and towels come with a lifetime. Warranty the only way to get access to Brooklyn days of gifting event and free shipping. Pink is to go to Brooklyn and DOT COM. That's B. R. O. O. K. L. I N. E. N. dot com. And if you're hearing this and it's after the holiday today season you can still use the Promo Code Garage at Brooklyn and Dot Com for ten percent off and free shipping anytime Brooklyn. Everything you need to live. You're most comfortable life if there is something interfering with your happiness or preventing you from achieving your goals. That are help online. Counseling can help better. Help offers licensed licensed professional counselors who specialize in issues such as depression anxiety relationships trauma anger family conflicts. LGBT not matters grief self esteem and more connect with your professional counselor and a safe and private online environment and get help at your own time and at your own pace anything that shares completely confidential. And it's so convenient you can schedule secure video or phone sessions as well as chat and text pets with your therapist. If for some reason you're not happy with your therapist. Do you can request a new one at any time for no additional charge. Best of all. It's a truly affordable option. Our listeners even get ten percent off your first month with Discount Code Garage so why not get started today good a better help dot com slash garage than simply bleep fill out a questionnaire to help. Assess your needs and get match with a counselor. You'll love that's better help dot com slash garage cheers to you captain. I'm raising a big big glass of Christmas bomb. Twenty nineteen by the awesome folks at prairie artisan Ales Garage Grade. Four out of five bottlecaps. Thanks to everyone who has donated donated to the beer fund. And I don't mean just this week I mean all year long. Yeah for the last however many years. Keep the lights on and you keep beer here in the fridge while an our mouths as well picking up where we left off here captain to put it quite frankly Just to muddy the waters autres even more in this case. We have basically two causes of death. Declared by Mr Myers. MD A term that we will probably blay be discussing quite a bit. I wanted to describe this to everyone. Just so we're all on the same page. As we move forward the term will be Eh Gherat. The general consensus being here that a garage can be made out of many different materials including ropes. Cable ties fishing fishing lines nylon guitar strings telephone cord or piano wire anything of that type of nature. A stick may be used to tighten the garage. This is a Spanish word which actually refers to the stick itself in Spanish. The term may also refer to a rope and stick used to constrict a limb. This basically is a popular murder weapon and for Sadist. It's a torture device. It's unfortunately a term that we've used many times on the shell continuing with our exam here. Captain the deceit is clothed in a long sleeved. White Knit colorless shirt. The chest area contains an embroidered. Silver Star were silver sequence tied loosely around around the right wrist overlying. The sleeve of the shirt is a white cord at the not. There is one tail and which measures five point wing five inches in length with a frayed. End The other tale of the not measures fifteen point five inches in length and ends a double loop knot. This end of the court is also frayed. There are no defects noted in the shirt but the upper right sleeve contains means a dried Brownstein. Two point five by one point five inches believed to be from the nose or mouth. There are long the white underwear with an elastic waistband containing a red and blue stripe. The long underwear are urine stained over the Crotch area and and legs beneath the long underwear are white panties with printed Rosebud and the word Wednesday on the elastic waistband. The underwear is urine stained and the inner aspect of the CROTCH are several red areas of staining measuring up two point five inches. Maximum dimension to touch on this. What we've just reviewed here captain the in regards to the yearn? This is a big big thing in this case because what we would learn very early in the investigation from the ramseys housekeeper offer is that Jon Benet was known to wet the bed quite frequently as well. Her Statement to detectives was that often then when she would come in in the morning that patsy would have already stripped the bed placing the sheets in the washer and then when the housekeeper would get there you know she transfer them to the dryer sheets dried and then apply them back to the bed and this was at times a daily routine. I believe her statement was was that this was a daily routine leading up to about thirty or forty days before the murder and it just kind of gone away. It was almost like Jon Jon. Benet had grown up from that that she was no longer wedding the bed I might be mistaken but I think at one point. She was not wetting the bed and then she started wetting the bed again. That's exactly right. That's the same thing that I heard and I believe that was the statement from the housekeeper. The detectives also also found pull ups. You know like the they're not quite diapers therefore older children. Yeah I wear them. I wear them to concert so I don't. I'll have to take a break to go to the bathroom. I don't WanNa Miss Anything now. I wear them when I'm in the garage. There were pull ups found in the home and there was some question if Jon Benet was known to wear these. I'm guessing that she would. I don't see why pull ups would remain in the house when you have children that are nine and six six years old. Just look at the pictures of their house. Man It's a mess that's true. There's a hot mess. One of the the reason why we point this out here here is that one of the big theories that has lasted all these years. Is that Jon. benet wet the bed that night and in you know Oh anger anger in impulsive reaction Patsy freaks out and throws the kid across the room or hits her over the head with something. And it's this all came about because she wet the bed once again right and patsy had just been through it all and this was the final a straw she lost. It didn't mean to hurt or kill her child but that's what she did and then was like potty training abuse. It's it's actually pretty common like even people that want it. You WanNa think would hit their kids or be violent towards her kids. They can beat lead if the kid is not being potty trained correctly or not able to do such right so we have to address this because we do have in the autopsy report from the external examination that there was urine on the clothing. I do want to point this out go. We should be clear here that this could come about at any time. It doesn't necessarily mean that she one hundred percent wet the a bed that night now this could have she could have. She could have went herself during an attack. That's extremely common. She could've wet herself. After you know indepth yeah so to point to that and say hey. She had two of wet the bed and this is the only. This is the explanation. We've come up with due due to that fact again. I think that's a dangerous assumption to make in this investigation to further this out a little more and I hate to. I hate to throw the warning out there that it's going to get a little gross because it seems only sensical because we they are discussing an autopsy but the fact that our show is called true crime garage in in the When discussing discussing her wedding the bed there's also reports that she has defecated in the bed before multiple times? There's also oh statements that burke would defecate in Jon. benet bed I don't know either. They're one of those to be true. It seems to me like the one that we can really hang our hat on here. That seems to be the most true is the bed wedding situation. This this is brought up by multiple people and the the other bit. I can't say for certain that that I believe either one of those. Now what would be pointed out during this investigation and these aren't my words but bed wedding defecating in the bed things of of that nature. It was pointed out that sometimes that is what you would see when somebody is being molested not only molested but usually when they're being molested by somebody within the home or in the family the reason for that is that in those situations situations sometimes the victim will do that consciously or unconsciously subconsciously. Whatever it is because they want to appear less desirable or gross to the perpetrator? Some was a way of protecting themselves. Correct that I point that out because that is one of the theories as well in this case I also want to stay one hundred percent that. There's never been any evidence before after the murder of Jon Benet Ramsey that John or patsy had they were ever involved in any paraphernalia at all. Yeah 'cause be clear on something. They searched their house. I I they actually called it. It was one magazine that called this murder Kiddie porn murder. They searched the house for Porno and they did not find any right. So and then there's also a rumor that they had all these Books or one of the books on and their study was opened up to incest or something like that. I believe it was that a dictionary down that the word incest was marked in in a dictionary. I questioned that one to captain because that's one of those ones that you hear in more salacious reports on this case Ace I really question I feel like that would be a a more well known fact if it was a fact but we what we do know is the fact is they didn't find any pornography in the house right into top that off. These both parents have other children. There's you know there's never been any any complaints by any of the other children that that patsy or John was ever involved in anything like that and to further that out even even more. We Have Melinda on record multiple times saying her father just wouldn't be capable of such an act and that he be murder order or molestation while we're on the subject though of the bed wedding situation. One thing that I did find particularly strange in this case and this is well reported to that Jon. Benet Ramsey had twenty seven doctor visits and the course of the three years leading leading up to her death on an average that puts her at like nine a year. That's a crazy amount. The doctor when asked asked about this states that this was for the the pediatrician states that these were for all normal reasons. She did have some some sinus issues. I guess that would be caused for reoccurring visits. I also wonder too. We know the situation of the accidental time when burke hit her in the face with the dog club. Yeah in the face and the face That in itself. Though I wanNA point we now just just something like that requires multiple doctor visits. I was looking for like a a straight up list while. Yeah you'd have if there was stitches. You have stitches than you have to remove the stitches. Well we know we know that she went to a plastic surgeon. So just like you pointed out there that that starts with the initial doctor visit referral to somebody consultation. The the surgery a follow up right there. You have four out of the twenty seven one. You have a stay at home mom so I think yeah maybe four people that are everybody's working and there's not a lot of money little. Oh things you're just going to let go but when you have the time to take your daughter and for every little thing and you have the money to cover it. I don't think that's unreasonable. Symbol external evidence of injury located just below the right ear at the right angle of the mandible. One point five inches below the right external auditorium canal is a small rust. Colored Abrasion in the lateral aspect of the left. Lower Eyelid is Particul- hemorrhaging coaching. I'm going to skip some portions of this autopsy report captain because there are multiple pages that go through all of these petillo hemorrhaging and all the Hammer Djing. That takes place. We know that we've already discussed it. Strangulation was involved and anybody. That's listened to the show or other true crime shows knows that hemorrhaging occurs during those types of situations but to specifically describe some of the report. Here this part I believed to be important wrapped around the neck with a double not in the mid line of the posterior are. Your neck is a length of white cord similar to that described as being tied around the right wrist. This leg. Sure cord is cut on the right side of the neck. Doc and removed a single black ink. Mark is placed on the left side of the cut and a double black ink mark on the right side of the okay so that portion portion of that last two sentences of his report are describing the pathologists actions he saying I removed it by cutting it and then I placed markers indicating touch took place. The not is left intact extending from the not on. The neck are two tales of the not one measuring four inches in length and having a frayed end and the other measuring seventeen inches in length with the N. tied in multiple loops around a Tan. Brown wooden stick which measures four point five inches. In length this wooden stick is irregularly broken at both ends and there are several colors of paint and varnish on the surface my printed in gold letters on one end of the wooden stick is the word Korea the tail end of the other word extends from beneath the loops of the cord tied around the stick and is not able to be interpreted blonde hair entwined in the not in the cord wrapped around the wooden stick. It appears to be made of white synthetic material also secured around the neck is a gold chain with a single charm in the form of a cross examination of the right extremities is unremarkable on the Middle Finger. Finger of the right hand is a yellow metal band around the right. Wrist is a yellow metal and identification bracelet with the name. Jon Benet on one side and the date twelve twenty five ninety six on the other side. This was a gift from her aunt. I believe from patsies sister. And I mean there's these little sad heartbreaking points in this case all along the way that just remind you of the pure innocence of this little girl and you know she here. She is wearing a gift that she just very recently received. Him was probably very excited to wear this piece of jewelry this she received from her aunt. I mean it just breaks your heart. I also think it's not clear in this is case on how brutal this attack was. And this is the way it was set up almost looked like you'd put a human on a leash and then you'd be pushing their head down as he pulled the the crop back. It's truly horrifying. I don't think that there's any documentary out there that has. I don't know what the right word is here. Captain but I wanNA. Let's say bothered to describe how horrific it would appease injuries. Are they almost make it. Sound like it's sleeping beauty lying in a windowless room in the basement and that's not the situation at all. There's if anybody that seen the pictures read the descriptions and we're going through here you hear the the the medical speak jargon and and it just sounds like textbook shit but really in lay terms it was. It's a horrific attack on a on a tiny little person and yet there's actually two marks on the neck one at the lower part of the neck and then at some point that became free and they go in deeper. And there's actually a couple pictures that you can see how deep the rope goes round throw almost disappears. Yeah and the line that it left at the mid line of the throat. After the fact though I mean it looks like somebody took up. Maroon Maroon Marker a Maroon Sharpie and just drew a line across somebody's neck that's how deep it looked like it was the cord was going into the neck back. There was a red ink line. Drawing in the form of a heart that was found located on the palm of John. Benes left hand hand. The fingernails of both hands are of sufficient length for clipping. And we already discussed that. They use the same clippers to clip. All of the figuring. Now you said that there was no nothing founded neath the nails but I I thought there was some DNA and possibly some blood that was found underneath the right hands fingered fingernails so in that showing that she struggled with somebody at some point. You're correct there are multiple bull reports on this detail of the investigation. The bit that I gave you was Steve Thomas's report one of the leading detectives. So I don't know what is the real true answer. What I find interesting is that he he follows up his report by saying we later? Learned that the all the fingernails were clipped with the using the same clippers right again. I think that points points to his thoroughness of saying whether this right or wrong this happen. Yeah whether it's right or wrong. This is what happened and then to to add adds to the weight of that question everything because this also happened right. What's the best way to describe the the because there was some? I don't WanNA use the word damage to the vaginal area. I don't think the damage which is the right word. Well you say indication of I've actually seen this disputed multiple ways one Claims that there. There's evidence that there was. At least some kind of touching to the Jonah area digital manipulation appellation. Yeah at the time of death. Then they also use the word chronic. Now when you hear the word chronic you think all this is going on for a long time now. This was this term. Would've made sense to meaning that there was something that happened to her days in. Advance of one of the medical examiners thought that this would happen. Basically a most likely individual pudding their finger inside verve China on the twenty second or the twenty third. Now Other Medical Examiners have stated that some of this bruising could be due to hygiene the bed wedding the irritation of the irritation yeah of having urine stained clothing on the skin right up against skin one. Sometimes they get time you get rashes and so then a mother would use They would get some kind of medication. The put on the rash and you could. Then you know that's where you could get some digital. Well I think to put it pretty as clean Lena's we can would be to say that the reports out there state everything from chronic molest ation to something as little as Irritated skin that could come from urine stained clothes or by this be clear wiping right right. But let's be clear about this chronic molestation this is not there was no signs of. There's there's no scar tissues to prove that she was molested molested for weeks and months and years not true. We're talking about the time of her death and probably once a couple a couple of days before that's all they prove. It also seems like there was wood fragments found in her vaginas. Well well I didn't personally see that in Dr Meyers report. Yeah I think it's saw that from loose-knit he does reference Fibers neighbors okay as well so again with this with this area of the body. It's it's really. It's up for to to debate really depending on who you talk to. This represents any number of things what I feel that I've seen and heard the most so I'm gonNA throw throw this in the batch of general consensus would be the just as you pointed out that this is something that occurred either at the time of death or shortly before car and it could be anything from as terrible as digital manipulation or something More vigorous swiping or hygiene. No no I I'm real and all that out what most of the medical examiner's state date as that the choking which people so half hazard we want to say is covering up for for something right. But the the the choking of Jon Benet was is after the fact and therefore it's covering covering up an accident now. The choking was not an accident it was on purpose. It was not meant to kill her. It was meant for sexual gratification. So if you have a they believe that there was molest station the time of her death and I think that that needs to be fact to me because it's like you don't have one or the other and a lot of people think because there wasn't penetration with like a penis that the individual would be more likely to be younger or a crazed disorganized. You typically see that rain in those types of of of murder cases so the report says a one centimeter red purple area of Abrasion is located on the right posterior will sorry him going to struggle with some of these words here. Captain Posterior lateral area of the one by one centimetre Heimdal orpheus. The hymen itself is represented by a rim of tissue extending clockwise between the two in ten o'clock positions. The area of Abrasion Asian is present at approximately seven o'clock position and appears to involve the Hyman in digital right lateral vaginal wall. We say all that to point out that it that that's basically saying there's a small amount of damage or injury to that area that bruising. Yeah one thing that is completely shocking. In this whole case shocking to me captain is that it appears that Linda aren't the pathologist who arrived on the twenty six th to examine the body at the ramseys home and then several other people as well that nobody realized that this poor girl had been struck over the head. Yeah it's it's it's almost like it took further detection that it wasn't you know you have the shocking scene of the Gherat of the cord wrapped around this little girl's throat wrote maybe it's the shock factor. And you you. You don't see what what might have been obvious but for all the reports I've read and stop me if you've read. They need the that are different. But it sounds as if this head wound which this this was a massive injury and we'll get into the details of it but it sounds like site scene unnoticed right. Yeah well there's no blood massive pulls a blood right and she had long blond hair. I believe it was was she to two pigtails or ponytails whatever they call that while yeah I mean that I if you've ever seen one of your buddies hit their head especially when they have blonde hair it turns bloody real real quick right but what I'm getting. Ah I don't know how much blood there was. There wasn't right and I don't know I would like to have a pathologist or a doctor I sit down with me and tell me the reasons why there's no blood obviously one she's already dead or near death at the time. Yeah that's what most medical examiners when they look at this say look. There's a lack of blood. So we they believe all the credible ones the most credible ones that I've seen in with this case state. She was choked. Who Sexual for sexual gratification? The perpetrator was and choking her either trying to touch her now. That would be random. That wouldn't be as much most likely. They were touching themselves salves while they're strangling her She there's defensive wounds around her neck meaning she's trying to stop the choking at some point. Some people believe that would cut off the blood circulation to her brain And there's some signs of that they they. I believe through the autopsy and so I I can't remember what they call it but it's basically where Y- your dad And it's it. It happens almost instantaneously Yeah and so that they also believe that you know normally if somebody's trying to strangle somebody in order to kill them. There's a lot of marks that are laughed like inside the neck muscles are strains different bones and stuff possibly can be broken within the neck and none of that is seen here. That's why they believe that dat these these bruises within inside the vagina are from molestation because the evidence of the choking doesn't I said it doesn't seem like the purpose of the choking was to kill her was to control her. So where where it gets a little convoluted is a lot of medical. Examiner's think that during this sexual gratification that the perpetrator then Either freaked out or or got into it too much and hit her over the head with something now now other people believe that the perpetrator knew that they that she was dead because they also there's also a temporal lube bruising in the brain and that's common when somebody is once a shakes somebody after death right and so so somebody chokes. Her doesn't mean killer shakes her. She's dead and then. I think I believe that's win. The the blow to the head happen because at that point the heart has stopped at won't be pumping blood to the to the brain. That would be one of the reasons why we WANNA have pulls a blood everywhere. That is one reason the other reason could be too is do we. How much broken skinned do we actually have with this strike right and the interesting thing here too? Is the the use of the garage in the manner that it was used very likely could suggest that it's it's not only torture device but it's also a sexual assault assault device where you're using it because that's what this this Sicko is into. And sometimes we see this Salat. In a lot of cases that we've covered especially with cereals that they will often choke someone almost to the point of death and then allow them to receive air and then choke them again right and they believe that was happening with her because their signs of that for for from the autopsy but those. Let's be clear that shows like. CBS is documentary on this case. It doesn't make any sense you can't start off with the idea of that. There was a a blow to the head. You cannot start that off. They believe this blow to the head would have made her brain dead should be unconscious minimum and then because of the brain brain swell in the brain bleed should be brain dead. And what happens if you're unconscious or brain dead you you do not put up a fight of somebody choking you right. So let's be clear. No need to restrain the arms right firm the perpetrators perspect- right and I know a lot of people are going to sit there and say well but but all that stuff is to cover up some kind an accident. Let's be clear that. CBS and everybody involved in that show were irresponsible for putting out that information. It's just factually not correct. And if you want to. I don't advise that you do this. Because you might have nightmares about this but go look go. Go Look at pictures of Jon. Benet Ramsey snack and see all those half moons of that six year old girl trying to stop somebody from strangling her. So this idea. Yeah that was burke accidentally hit on the head or that or that during a changing of Pajamas are changing the sheets. Or whatever that in Janis bathroom right that that she slipped and hit her head or got tossed across the room by her mother or or struck over the head with a flashlight. Right to the credit I guess of the of the people that believe Burke may have killed his little sister be an accident or whatever the skull fracture to me does look like it could have came by way of golf club it. I mean there's I if anybody looks at that picture and says I wouldn't think a golf club could make that Roy gear because strike. I would thera co well. Then you're you. You need to go get glasses my friend right because it straight up in the dimensions. So let's describe this because not not everybody's going to be fully aware of of this. The fracture of the skull fracture is huge. It measures eight inches in length and the way way that this works out is she would have been struck on the top of her head. But it's more to the right solid sign of her head. Yeah Yeah and the the fracture runs from where the where the impact hit on the skull and it runs all the way forward. Yeah and then what you have at the top where the impact took place. You actually have a full section that broke off it. It runs eight inches in length. Total but from where the point of impact. What we have here is picture a school where you have a crack that runs down the majority of the right side of the skull at the top of that crack where it stops? You have a basically a rectangle shaped piece of the skull that fully broke off on all four sides and that piece itself is quite small. I believe it's one and a half inches by a half inch. That's that's the rectangle there and then from there you have You would have your remaining so it'd be six and a half finches of a fracture that runs from that broken piece there. Yeah and and in cops were looking for this this possibility as well. Maybe not so much a golf club but it did look into that Burke had back on they did some tasks and then realize they don't believe that would the happened through a bat not saying that the cops were saying that burke hit her in the head but there were looking for objects. Yeah Then you have have a bunch of tests done on the flashlight again. I think that's it's reasonable to you. See you have a bigger opening bigger fracture than it goes goes to with thinner fracture. So maybe something like a a big flashlight. It definitely have liked the weight to it to to be able to do to be able to create that that type of fracture but there's also a picture crime-scene picture that there's this now most looks like One of like a fireplace tool that would also be like if I were to walk around. Someone's home after seeing the the skull when the skin skin is pulled back and see the fracture itself. If I were to walk around anyone's home and like pick up instruments that I think could have could have made that impact impact and left that Mark Right on her left that fracture in that manner. I don't think I would go for flashlight. I'm not saying it's impossible. I wouldn't go for flashlight. Ashok wouldn't go for Bat. Anything that's rounded doesn't seem to make sense to me. I see something where you need like. You need something where you're almost seeing saying. The broken piece of the skull is the outline of whatever hitter and that to me would be like. Yeah like a fire place tool or a golf club. Anything like right but if you look through the crowds and possibly it's one hundred percent has to be you know the the markings of what hitter. Yeah object hitter It had to have hitter look at the I mean. Let me finish my thought. Sorry so I if you look at the crime scene Infos there there. It looks like some kind of fireplace tool. I don't know what you call those but it's right under the current. Does the poker the things that you would like. Some people have like the poker's and then they have the brushes and yeah they have the shovels and and they have all different kinds of things things. Okay right it looks like there's one in. It's underneath the open window where the suitcases and you'd have to go through there's tons of crime scene photos but you have to go through and you can see it laying on the ground now. I can't. It's blurry I can't tell you exactly what it is but I go while we know L.. Where the we know where the paintbrush handle came from a came from that room right that that was used in the Gherat? A We know that at some point she was in that suitcase. Because we have all these fibers from her clothes. That are in that suitcase so they were gonNA use. Well you can say you know that I won't. I won't be on board with that one. I'm not not convinced that she was in the suitcase. Okay but what we do have is a suitcase as with a bunch of fibers from the clothes. He was wearing that night. So well again. I don't know that they were the closest she was wearing that night. The well that's the report the the House that I saw again but that I'm not sure I don't WanNa sound like I'm challenging you here. I'm I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying the information I've reviewed doesn't state state that same stuff right but right. Would that suitcase where that suitcases. Correct underneath that open window. There's a crime scene photo that has some kind kind of object and I just want because police have stated we haven't found the object of what hit her on the head right right and here's where this is what I question okay and all has to work on some order like Lou Smit uh-huh keep calm Smith it's like his analysis of the the intruder theory doesn't work it starts with a stun gun. Or what does the stun gun do incapacitates. The person renders them unconscious at some point right so mary likely to for a small person. We're not talking about a full grown right all. We're talking about a very small child. And how long long are they incapacitated for the this is what I would wanNA know I could. Yeah I don't think any of us can say because there's differing you know there's varying degrees of you've even the stun-guns but just as analysis it doesn't make any sense because if I go okay I'M GONNA go up to John nays bedroom and I'm gonna hit her with this stun gone and that's what's going to allow me to take her downstairs. Okay at what point does she eat pineapple so well we should be clear. Clear here for those. That don't know there was A substance found in Jon Benet upon the the autopsy findings that it suggests that she ate pineapple or a substance that resembles pineapple shortly before her death by it was undigested tested right and then we have crime scene photos that have a bowl of pineapple with milk. Which I've never heard of of my mother fed me pineapple who says this pineapple in a bowl? I that's weird. I've heard of yogurt and cottage cheese but never milk. I think it's milk again. I don't I don't quote me on that but but my thought is okay while loose smith loose smits smit intruder theory Hamburg or get downstairs. She wakes up. She's supposed to be met by Santa Claus. At some point she goes downstairs. She sits at the table. She makes herself off some pineapple. Maybe she doesn't make herself some pineapple. Maybe Burke made himself some pineapple but he went to bed. He didn't finish it so she sits there and decides how you the peace of this. That's when the intruder would have to come in contact with her right right or I guess she could woke up in the middle of night went downstairs eight. Some pineapple went back upstairs as possible. on then you use the stun gun but again the sun doesn't make any sense because once you start trying to control her with the Grat. You need defensive wounds. I do want to point out here though to the purpose of the garage may not be yes. It's control but not in the manner that I think that some might be thinking thing it could be straight up for sexual assault right type of control and I'm not going to go into it too much. I mean Maybe on off the record or something. I don't feel comfortable discussing what the garage itself could have been used for the thing I will. I put my stamp on here though. Well before we get into that. Let's point out that we're the stun gun idea comes into play is that there are pictures. Sure there were unfortunately or fortunately I guess depending on how you WanNa look at it. It's incredibly degrading to the victims. Involved in this case but autopsy photos were leaked to the press at some point and you can view them online still to this day based off of that we have loose-knit who later says. Look you see these two little looks like little prong marks. He's this these came from a stun gun now. You you have other experts. You have Dr Warner Spitz. And trying to think of what he's most famous for he's covered. He's done so many different cases but Warner Spitz where our listeners would know him. The best from would be from West Memphis three. He was the one that later viewed the photos and said. Hey these marks are Bite marks from a from turtles so that that's that dude. He says when he views these photographs. These are not stun. Gun marks there there there. He would expect what he's looking for is a stun gun. Basically is leaving an electrical burn type mark on the skin. Yeah I he says is that what he's seeing it doesn't does not appear to be a burn to him and I'll see that on their back the marks on their back that a lot of people think are like maybe a train track set which would have been in the room that possibly was molested in? That's another thing too you. She has multiple scrapes and stuff on her back in marks on her arms and stuff like that basically that she was squirming during the time that she was molested and so could she got these marks on her back at that point. Yes but the marks on her face I to me I see what what looks like a burn between the two marks and you would expect a good deal of struggle and squirming if in fact she was being choked and there was some type of sexual assault prior to death. This is what I said I was GONNA put my stamp on here. Captain Reviewing the pictures of the skull. I I don't know science. I'm not a pathologist. I'm not claiming to be an expert. You take this for whatever you for what it is. It's some dumb guy in a garage. Giving his opinion now I should. I should go then. Should be my turn them but what my opinion is based off of these photographs damage damage to the skull man. I don't think that Burke would have had the strength regardless of weapon to create this type of damage in one single blow. This looks to me to be one. Single solid hit to the skull. I also ole-ry sorry go further and say I don't think and I've seen pictures of Jon benet bathroom to theory that patsy loss control role in through across the room in this was some kind of head injury that occurred when she got thrown across a room or she hit her head on something after being slapped by Patsy. I'm not saying that patsies innocent. What I'm saying is this injury did not come from anything like that? In my opinion this is a single strike of of very violent strike to the head single strike with with a lot of strength behind it and a lot of force behind the other thing I will say to. I beg anyone to go out there and look up the garage or what. They are calling a Gherat in this this case because what I see here this is one of those rare times in the case where you see some level of criminal sophistication and what I mean by that is. Is this this weapon. This torture device here appears to me. This wasn't the first time ever constructed this. This was not the first time that they put put one of these things together. Well most medical examiners call these not sophisticated yeah the these are not. These aren't not made by a nine-year-old nine year old when I look at this what I see if you I would love if somebody would take the pictures it like if I could go back and unsee them and somebody could take away the words words Jon Benet Ramsey from the photographs and just hand them to me and go. Oh what's it what's this from. What do you think this is what I see their captain without anything clouding? My Vision. Is An intricate torture. Device constructed for the sole purpose of sexual. We'll assault. Yeah it seems like most of the medical experts believe again during the sexual assault during this this torture that this individual loss control and ended up hitting her on the head but at that point the brain wasn't pump. The the heart wasn't pumping to the brain already. That's a real thing. I guess during strangulation that that will stop I stay in it slows it along the way. Yeah it's still the person still alive technically. But there's no blood or oxygen pumping into the brain now meaning should be brain dead. They hit her on the head because they lost control or is part of their fantasy or whatever. I think that's a very good the possibility but like I said we have fibers whether you want whether you want to believe this or not. Because there's experts that contradict each other over over and over but there's fibers in that suitcase and my thought. Is that this individual for whatever reason the sexual gratification I was going to be better for them If they molested her inside the house knowing that her family was there there was excitement there once they figured out she's dead. That wasn't part of the plan in the ransom notes already sitting on the staircase right I have to get her out of here. I am gone to use the suitcase to transporter. I put her in the suitcase. At this point no blow to the head. I I think it's possible that individual put her in that suitcase and tried to lift her up through that window and then dropped her and landing on her head Yes yes. They're suitcase would hit I but she's inside the suitcase and I think that's possibly ably. What created That fracture you pointed out something very important in this case and just with every aspect of this case there's so many different opinions. There's so many different even expert opinions and regarding the autopsy itself cause of death injuries to Jon. Benet how those injuries occurred. We've had many very reputable good solid experts over the ears. Examine this case. But what they've examined have been photographs and what they've examined have been documents. There's only been one path. Allah Gis to examine the body. And that was Dr Meyers. MD Nine hundred ninety six. Whatever struggles you're facing for depression and anxiety to trauma and grief? We've better help can connect you with professional counselor and safe in private online environment. It's so convenient. You can schedule secure video or phone sessions as well as chat and text with your therapist and anything that you share is completely confidential. Besse Vodka truly affordable option. Our listeners. Even get ten percent off your first month with Discount Code Garage so why not get started simply go to better help dot com slash garage and fill out a questionnaire to get matched the counselor. You'll love today. That's better help dot com slash garage for all of our old episodes checkout exclusively on the stitcher APP and we have the weekly show on stitcher premium called off the record. Cheers the captain and thanks to everybody out there for listening. Thank you for telling a friend and thank you for all of the wonderful a five star reviews. Please join us back here in the garage next week for episode five until then be good kind. Don't Let Eh.

Patricia Ramsey murder RAMSEYS John burke Jon Benet Ramsey Linda Art Patsy Ramsey Jon. benet Mister Thomas Ramsey John Ramsey clippers Ramsey home Andrew Ramsay Melinda Ramsey S Colorado Brooklyn John Hurry Jon Jon
JONBENT: Behind The Scenes Special Episode

The Killing of Marilyn Monroe

34:53 min | 1 year ago

JONBENT: Behind The Scenes Special Episode

"Hard in the police department side was. Hey Ramsey's did did not going to give up. That would be wrong. I want an answer to this primarily for the sake of my children in my grandchildren for twenty three years it is a crime that has gripped the world. A family tragedy almost unthinkable terrible in both detail and consequence the murder of Jon. benet Ramsey shocked the world. She was murdered at just six years old with the circumstances surrounding her death being nothing less than horrifying defying. The child beauty queen was found in the basement of her family home in Boulder Colorado eight hours. After she was reported missing her skull had been smashed and a garage placed around her neck. It remains unclear which proved fatal strangulation or the blow to her head. Investigators who have been focusing focusing on the family home of six year old murder victim. Jon Benet Ramsey have now issued search warrants. I'm a Paul that anyone would think that that John or I would be involved in such a hideous paying US crime. Welcome to the killing of Jon. Benet Ramsey the final all suspects. I'm your host Daniel Roby in this special behind the scenes preview episode you will be brought into the inner circle of the investigative team in a production meeting at the onset of the project. Along with Jon Benet father brother and close friends. Our production team have attempted to find answers to the brutal. Oh murder of the young beauty queen providing an unprecedented and extensive new investigation all in the hope to finally solve one of the most enduring murder order mysteries. The killing of Jon Benet Ramsey. The final suspects will delve into what is every parent's worst nightmare nightmare. Something that you hope never happens to your child. Specially in your own home yet happened to the ramseys twenty three years ago and still to this stay. The murder is unsolved. Here we join Executive Producers Dylan Howard and Matt sprouse as they discuss the Jon Benet case. What are we going to do to try and establish some some sort of finality? Some sort of conclusion for John Ramsey and his family. I think what's exciting about this. podcast is that we have this list. That was left behind by the lead investigator in the case his name was loose. Mit How did loose-knit get to be involved. In the KYW's so loose-knit it was a retired police detective in Colorado and he was brought out of retirement by the district attorney to help with the with the case early on and when he died he had. He had this list list of suspects that he'd been going through for two decades and he was able to cross off or rule out many of those suspects but he had at least ten ten suspects that he could never clear and that he was still pursuing. And now we have lose list and we'RE GONNA use that list to go after the final suspects of course Lew Smith commit before. His death vehemently believed that Jon Benet Ramsey was kill by an intruder and I guess that leads me to the point went many have suspected that John and patsy Ramsey modern Bain responsible for the killing of their daughter. Obviously audience subscribe to that. I have covered this case for a decade and a few weeks ago flew out to where John presently lives in small town in Utah. This is a man in his seventies who remains shattered by the circumstances of his daughter's what is death and how it came to be and in some ways. He blames himself yeah. I was surprised within the first couple of minutes. I realized this guy didn't kill his daughter. He's not covering up for someone who killed his daughter. He's a guy who has been through hell and has found a way to continue living and continue to find answers for his daughter who spending money on DNA. Testing testing of Suspects that cross his mind and we went through this list of suspects and he was blown away at the rate such that we had done. But he said something that so heartbreaking he said to me that Jonbenet was killed because of him and he meant that he believes she was targeted or targeted because of circumstance in small town called Colorado way he just sold his business into a significant company that obviously giving millions and millions of dollars so someone of being jealous of his success and it was a controversial controversial company was a controversial company and it was built by Lockheed Martin yes and it might have pissed off people to the point that that they took out these highness action. Yeah and that's the first time I had ever heard that theory but it makes sense and then he said to me. I live every night knowing that my daughter was killed likely because of me and that broke my heart. Yep Yeah and I think you can see in his eyes that he's he's come to peaceful place but also a place where he before he dies. I think he's seventy five and he said before he dies. He needs to get these answers for his children and his grandchildren He knows that it's too late to get justice in some ways for Jon Jon Benet because someone has has gotten away with this for twenty three years but at least he can go to his grave knowing that he found answers for his family Matt. You you have assembled the team. What are we going to find out who on these people and what is relevant to the case share will? Let's start with Doug on genie. I think he's probably the most important point person we can bring in he's an investigative reporter worked with CBS. For Years Doug Guinea has produced more hours on this case than any other investigative reporter for TV and so he is going to be our man on the ground he knows everybody attached to this case including clued family. He has a trust an institutional knowledge. I think it's important that we talk to him because he provides an insight like no one else Doug thanks very much for joining us on this behind the scenes episode firstly. I want to ask you this. Why are we still fascinated with these kayce? 'cause it's unsolved because there's still a large group of people who think that the parents are responsible for Johnny's death or someone in the family and here's the other big group of people who think that intruder broke into that home on Christmas evening and wrote a ransom note and killed a six year old girl in it remains unsolved in at at the time I think maybe because of the the beauty pageant videos it went national and back then we didn't call it viral but it went viral and it remains viral. This is a story that everyone thinks they know. But the killing of Jon Benet the final suspects as a story. They I don't because we have access to lose smits archives essentially we're going to be taking listeners into a whole new investigation and investigation that has a very lofty goal in mind and that is to try and solve this case. How important importance loose Smith Information? It's critical it's so important. I mean this is the guy who even on his deathbed Ed was telling family members names of suspects that he wanted checked out. He spent a good part of his latter years both breath when he was working for the district attorney in Boulder and then after he'd left there and was retired from any active police force but continue due to investigate this case and compiled a list of suspects. Some pretty scary people on that list. Do you tell us a little bit. About how lose spreadsheet was organized. It's just not random He didn't write down his thoughts of how he organized it in any detail but there are a lot of names on that list a lot of names and he prioritized and he also was looking at had. DNA been taken had they cooperated. Had anybody spoken to these people anybody. Anybody investigated these people a lot of time. The answers was no no one had spoken to these people not the DA's office not the police department not the boulder police and he prioritized the names on these he's lists and we are looking at some of the top priorities on his list. Unfortunately in life he ran out of time. We have the benefit ahead of time. This list really is the Kedah cracking the case. Is it fair to say that the killer's name is almost certainly written on that spreadsheet. I think it's fair to say that the killer's name is on that spreadsheet. Uh Whoever said it's all about the journey probably never traveled during the holidays. It's the worst time of year to hit the road or skies and yet it's almost always unavoidable. That's why aways products are designed to make your travels smoother for the holidays and Beyond and away offers a range of suitcases made from different materials. That come in a ton of colors and to carry on sizes. So whether you just need to pack the essentials. Were you need room for gifts away. has you covered. I have the bigger carry on from away and I love it. It has a ton of space but it still fits in most overhead bin. So I don't have to worry about checking my back at every suitcase comes with four three sixty degrees spin wheels for the smoothest ride even at the most hectic airports travelling during the holidays holidays is crazy. The getting away can make every trip a lot. More seamless visit away travel dot com slash Ramsey to learn more. And if you're in the contagious. US US order by noon. On December nineteenth for free expedited shipping and delivery by December. Twenty four th for additional last minute holiday shipping details check out their website away. He traveled dot com slash Ramsey R. A. N. S. E. Y. and again ordered by December nineteenth for free delivery by December twenty fourth and visit away travel dot com slash slash Ramsey for details. My health is something that I don't like to take chances with what you put in an an on your body matters and that includes deodorants. I use native because it's made without aluminum parabens and talk and it works. I've tried a a lot of other aluminum. Free deodorants and so far native is the only one that works for me there. Formula contains simple ingredients. You can pronounce like coconut oil and Shea Butter. You know exactly what you're putting on your body and it comes in a wide variety of sense for men and women. They also have unscented and Baking Soda Free Formulas for those with sensitive incident skin. I have the coconut vanilla. Their most popular set. And it smells Nice and fresh. Without being too overpowering native has over nine thousand five star reviews and with free returns and exchanges in the US. There's no risk to try it out for twenty percent off your first purchase visit native Deodorant Dot Com and use Promo code killing feeling during checkout. That's native deodorant. Dot Com Promo Code Killing for twenty percent off your first purchase off. We are going to introduce you to another character. Who has vein involved in this story from Diwan really and Doug both you and I have our own interesting connections funds to this individual an individual whose existence I began online under the pseudonym Jameson? What can you tell? Tell me about Jameson. Who she first of all and why did you get involved in this case is she is a housewife? A mother lives in a southern state and saw this story and it hit her. I hit her for personal. The reasons of which I don't really know all up immediately. She started blogging. On this case and people started to pay attention. She wondered if it was an intruder and or if it was the family members over time she came to know Lou Smit and others involved in the investigation and believe that intruder was responsible for it and has overtime collected a great deal of material. I think of her as the Encyclopedia of this case Doug. What was your first initiation to her? I first initiation was in nineteen ninety eight. She had been named by a professor at an Ivy League school as a possible suspect. In the case he had done some analysis of her writings and had come to the conclusion the very very very wrong conclusion that she was somehow a suspect in the case in we learned of this as I was doing a series of stories. He's on the case and I met with her for the first time in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight in Boulder Colorado and she told me in her story and we did her story sense then. I have used as a resource over the years. Time and time In time again and I too have traveled to her hometown and I to have set either in her whole or in a hotel room or the library uptown and looked at listened to and watched the things she's collected and it's remarkable what she's collected so not not only was she not the murderer but she became like you said the encyclopedia and Lou Smit would actually call her to fact check. Isn't that right and and John Ramsey still does. Yeah over that time you know a a blogger who's a bit anonymous at times and you wonder right I mean are they straight are they bending things are they twisting facts to a certain advantage. She she is a straight shooter. She's collected what she's collected from sources all over the country and people send her things. It's remarkable remarkable. What she gets in the mail and she tells you about it? She trusts you. loose-knit trusted her and they engaged in numerous conversations over the years and she visited him in Colorado and he trusted her. He trusted her so much that he add this valuable list of suspects and he gave her access to those to a spreadsheet. And that's what we're working with. Well I think it is finally time to on mosque jonassen. Let's give her a call Jamieson. I am isn't show. We know all the facts. The ramseys have been accused of this murder. Burke Ramsey has been falsely accused of this murder. There it was a witch hunt surrounding in my view John and Patsy Ramsey. But we're in a unique position. Now Jameson it's two two thousand and nineteen and we have access to new enhancements in technology. Dan Is it's very important in this case. Why is it? There is no innocent explanation or any foreign mail. DNA to be found on her body for on her clothes under her nails and especially not co mingled old with the blood spots from the sexual assault that were found in her panties. There's no innocent explanation for that. DNA to be in any of those places places. It does not belong to anybody in her family which means that someone who sexually assaulted her that day left their DNA there and it's important to find that person and it's also important to know that he nineteen ninety-six not only was Technology Bailey available to properly testimony of saint or. I suspect that mistakes by the ball deep payday meant it simply wasn't used to its full capabilities and now with the advantage and enhancements of DNA technology that we saw with the Golden State Killa and how that unsolved case this was solved. We're really in a unique position. We're in a great position because we know that there's more. DNA evidence that needs to be tested and what still needs to be tested in this case for DNA. Okay some of the items that were taken as evidence were sent to boaty and they sent them. I'm back and didn't test them. And they those items need to be brought back to the lab and retested using the better knowledge that we have. Are we going to get asked. But how are we going to get access to those well. One Way. We're not gonNA physically get a hold of these items which could include fluid. The garage The handled it was used as under garage. Which of course someone's hand was on? So why wouldn't you test that. We're not go and physically get a hold of that but loose Smith has a daughter and daughter along with some of his former colleagues are are trying to get those items tested. They sit with the Boulder Police Department. They are trying to pressure the Boulder Police Department into doing the right thing and getting goes critical items critical pieces of evidence tested. But why why were. They not tested twenty years ago. That's sounds crazy. It's a murder scene. They found enough. DNA to know that someone outside of the family was there and they have five more pieces of evidence that could have been tested and they just didn't do it. Oh that's that's an easy answer. They know who did it they gotten DNA back and the rams and family my good fit the foreign DNA. That was Jon Benet panties that stop anybody from believing that the family did it. No and they're they hit the information from the District Attorney's Office the Boulder Police Department at the report saying that. DNA belong to a foreign person person and they didn't tell the district attorney's office. They did not tell Smith they did not tell anyone. They hit that secret for months and months and months launch in to me. That's criminal in itself and I understand. I understand back then when they would probably embarrassed and they've already pointed the finger at the family and they they couldn't Sort of on. Go down that path but it seems like now there'd be a whole new group of people at the Boulder Police Department at at the DA's office. Why this minute let me? Just let me just say what everyone should be saying. If Lou Smith spreadsheet exists why why is the Boulder Police Department. Not doing what we're doing we're podcast producers. And we're left to do the research that they won't do. They told told me number one. They have other cases new cases and vital cases that they feel they can do better work on and and that's their priority number two the funding. They've spent so much money on the Ramsey case. They really don't have that much money three they. They don't feel that they can properly ever get a conviction in this case even if they find intruder they're always intruders lawyers gonNA stab Ab. They said the RAMSEYS did it. And so they don't feel that they'll be able to get an addiction. So why bother the thing that you need to note is the same people that have not solved this case. Twenty two years are the same people in charge same elites that were there day one day to day fifty day one hundred are still there in charts so they must have been like in their twenty like they must have just been starting their career back in ninety six ninety seven this you know. They hadn't been a murder in boulder. Oh to Colorado of a kid like this that will foreign to how to deal with these type of crowd a few days after the murder they bring in John Andrew Ramsay Ramsey. That was John Benitez older brother. He was a sophomore at the University of Colorado at the time they bring him into the Boulder police station. They put him in a room and he is hoping that now. The police are going to solve the murder. Sister to police officers come immune. He's sitting in the chair. They sit down. They hand him their cards. Their business cards police business cards one card. It says auto theft one card says narcotics. Neither of those cards say homicide and he thinks Oh my oh my God what's going to happen. I think that that's something. They had no idea what they're doing. And the other thing in boulder the time is is it people would be rotated into the appointment of being a detective so everybody got a chance at the better hours in the little. Better pay I I guess And it just happened to be St Thomas's turn to rotate into being a detective. This was the first case he got in the only. Let me comment homicide. The he had ever worked on as most of US found out the hard way. Getting into debt is easy especially around the holidays. It's getting out. That's the hard part and it can be even harder when your credit score is in great thankfully now there's upstart dot com. It's a revolutionary lending platform. That knows you're more than just your credit score. The look at the full picture like your education and Job History and reward you in the form of a smarter interest rate and associate of mine. Used up start to help L.. Pay Down some major credit card bills after her wedding and she did everything from her phone. It only takes a few minutes and once alone approved. Most people get their funds the next business day so why not free yourself from the burden of high interest credit card debt and combine everything into one monthly payment with upstart see why upstart is ranked number one in their category with over three hundred businesses on trust pilot and hurried up. START DOT com slash Ramsey to find out how. Low your upstart raiders. Checking your rate only takes a few minutes and won't affect your credit. That's upstart dot com slash Ramsey R. A. M. S. Z.. Y. In the week after the holidays brings the heaviest caseload for police families are usually traveling and burglars. No people leave expensive gifts lying around the house. And what's crazy is that only one in five homes have home security probably because most companies don't make it easy between the high monthly fees and long term contracts contracts. It's often just way too expensive. That's why simply safe is my top choice. Prices are always fair and honest starting at just fifteen bucks a month there's no contract or hidden fees. It's comprehensive professional home security at a fair price and right now is the best time to get it for the holidays. They're offering offering a huge discount on your security system and a free security camera go to simplisafe dot com slash. JV are now to take advantage of simplisafe's amazing holiday savings and get a free hd security camera this offer is for a limited time only and it's ending soon so hurry that simply safe Sim p.. L. I. SAFE DOT COM slash. JPR To save big and get a free security camera simplisafe dot com slash JPR Documentation John Andrew A short time ago I mentioned earlier. That this podcast sees in many ways the father and sons crew sign an attempt to try and find answers to the brutal murder of their daughter and sister. He's the lesser known brother in this case Berko Veasley seemingly has the high profile as he was falsely accused. What can you tell me about John Andrew? Why he's Bane in the background? And how you and Matt and I want to ask Matt is able to convince him to participate in the killing of Jon. Benet the final suspects. Let me tell you what I know about John. Andrew Ramsay he grew up in Atlanta. He was a child Born born in John Ramsey's first marriage and it was John Andrew and his older sister. Beth John Ramsey's he's daughter. Beth unfortunately died in an automobile accident in Michigan many many years ago so that left John Andrew and his mom Tom in Atlanta. When John Ramsey took a job in boulder and they were divorced by them John John Andrew decided once he graduated from high school to go to the University of Colorado in Boulder and did go there so he was living in Boulder? When all of this happened As a at that point as a sophomore at the University of Colorado and as I said he expected the police to do their job he understood that a family is often in early suspect in the case which is everyone everyone knows is what happens and he knew that would happen but he knew that his family had done anything wrong at not killed a family member and you expected the police to do the right thing. He stayed however in the background. John Andrew is not the only sibling of the Ramsey family. Suffering from this was tragedy. He had a sister he had two older sisters Beck who died in a car accident and Melinda Melinda had a boyfriend Stuart Stewart and she had spent that Christmas with Christmas Eve and everything with Stuart in Atlanta Sheen. Gene Jenny Andrew. We're headed Christmas now. She's since married. Stewart and Has a family and to protect her children. Do not have the Ramsey name. She has remained quiet. I mean she has suffered. She has heard enough. She lost her baby sister. She watched her father and stepmother. They're accused she is hurt and she has remained by Pacini Andrew his sided. Now it's time to come out when I met with him. The first time He was almost apologetic to even think that he could have a voice in this story he said for years. He's always thought of this as a tragedy that happened to do Jon Benet but then secondly to patsy and John and Burke and he felt like he was outside of that circle And and I think it's taken him this long to realise that his voice may be the most important voice now because he was his brother and he does want to see the truth. Come out and he's just far enough removed that he he doesn't have where it can't be perceived that he has an agenda other than finding who killed his sister. It's been more than two decades of Hell Hell for John. Andrew Ramsay. He's participation in this. podcast proves one thing this is not a retelling of a very very tragic and sad story. It is as we promised to John and John Andrew an active investigation of the case. Not only that. We're very confident that this will be the most comprehensive investigation conducted since the flawed investigation from the Bulb payday now team when I want no stone unturned or no laid on followed I personally talk to one. Man Montero Doug Monteiro is the best investigator that I know. Monteiro has agreed to participate in this. And he's a veteran reporter here in the a New York newspaper saying Montero. What do we need to do as part of this investigation? We need to physically track. Some of these suspects down Get in their faces and confront them and see if during heated questioning that they at any point it will provide us with some sort of an answer as to whether they are responsible for this young girl's death and we need to get DNA Friday. You do that in the field and by field. I may not investigating ties the best way to do that is by conducting long hours of stakeouts waiting being for them to either drop cigarette on the floor or throw a cup of coffee into the garbage. Can it's really undercover detective. Work you and I have talked Montero about not just the names of the suspects but the categories they fall in like they're part of the pageant seeing the beauty pageants seeing. They were photographers. They did some John Benitez photography the other children photography in that group. Remember we they. What are the kinds of people were finding but are the crimes rhymes that some of these people have been accused of or convicted of? There is a pattern of behavior in a lot of these suspects that we're looking at Particularly a a few of them who were pageant photographers that have subsequently been arrested for some form of child pornography. Okay so Doug Watson step first step is to get on an airplane in Golden Colorado specifically the go-to boulder older and to check out. Knock on doors. Some of these suspects that are in boulder. Some of these suspects are another parts of Colorado bill and knock on their doors and also speak to the Ramseys to both John Ramsey and John Andrew Ramsay. I must say team. I think we're are in a unique position. He had find some answers with loose. Smith's list of suspects you all the team that put together the resources available to us and the advances in technology. Crucially for the Ramseys we are going to be able to either rule in and or rule out certain suspects and that is a giant step forward in unequipped. What the ball to pay day says a cult sky's not actively investigating it from the very beginning when the FBI did get called? They said that a child of six. It doesn't make how many enemies child of six of made the killing of Jon Benet. The final suspects is going to be partly procedural part murder mystery. Each episode will be a real life real time search for the truth and no one will escape scrutiny as we attempt to put right one of the modern ages most monstrous wrongs join us. And listen to the killing of Jon. Benet the final suspects narrated by me. Danielle Robie as we answer her enduring question. Who Killed Jon Benet Ramsey? The killing of Jon Benet. The final suspects is hosted by means Danielle Rowe Bay executive produced by Dylan Howard and Matt sprouse and is a production of broaden water studios and endeavor audio executive producers also include. Tom freestone Doug Genie. Susan Bennett James. Robertson Andy Tillett the series written by Dominic Button reporting by Doug Doc Monteiro. The series is mixed and engineered by Sean Kravis and Sam Ada. There is so much more to this story. And you don't WanNa Miss Anything. I can assure you subscribe. Subscribe to the killing of Jon. Benet the final suspects wherever you get podcasts.

Jon Jon Benet Jon Benet Ramsey murder John Andrew Ramsay Ramsey Colorado John Man Montero Doug Monteiro Boulder Ramsey RAMSEYS Jon Benet John John Andrew Matt sprouse US Jon. benet Ramsey Benet Patsy Ramsey John Benitez Boulder Police Department
The Harem Conspiracy

Overheard at National Geographic

24:02 min | 1 year ago

The Harem Conspiracy

"This episode of overheard is sponsored by Viking National Geographic is dedicated exploration and Vikings to Viking takes travelers to the heart of the world cities including Amsterdam Budapest in Vienna offering a small ship experience along on Europe's iconic rivers with schorr excursion included in every port learn more at Viking cruises dot com where the National Geographic Museum here in Washington D._C.. For Magnificent New oh exhibition on Queens of Egypt so it's eight thirty in the morning museum hasn't even open yet and we're getting a special tour from archaeologist in residents read Hebrew and Scott Three hundred fifty artifacts Senate from the very very oldest collection of Egyptian antiquities actually in the world when Fred's not out in the field studying ancient trade routes are searching for never t._D.'s tomb. He's back here helping to curate this museum. Fred wines is is through the dimly lit exhibit. He points out perfectly preserved Royal Sandal a bust of Cleopatra some stone statues of Faeroese from the value of the Kings. That's a life sized sculpture of Tut mouse the first this is clearly a man who loves his job opening the boxes like Christmas three hundred fifty times over. Here's his big box. It has no label whatsoever. We know that we have to open the box and it's like wait wait. Oh It's doc does he brings us over to a long glass case so we have here an absolutely unique papyrus is about eighteen feet long describing this conspiracy that happened to new pop off. The feral Fred says the text is written in high radic a cursive form of hieroglyphics. It's really beautiful but the details written down here those are not pretty judicial judicial document. It's a record of a court proceeding in which the court has identified a couple of perpetrators who were scheming to assassinate feral Ramsey's the third it describes having the perpetrators traders plead guilty. It describes how the perpetrators were forced to commit. Suicide is all written down here thirty nine people were convicted of high treason. Some were disfigured others were executed or forced to kill themselves. This papyrus tells the story of an inside job. A conspiracy hatched by the Faeroese own family by one of his wives. I'm Peter Gwen and this is overheard. National Geographic a show where we eavesdrop on the wild conversations we have at Nat G._O.. And follow them to the edges of our big weird and beautiful world this this week a dynasty disarray a secret kept from linear and some new science that cracks the case wide open. It's remarkable how much we still don't know about ancient Egypt. egyptology is a field based on best interpretations. It's filled with mystery and this is a story that has stumped scholars for a very long time what happened to Ramseys the third. It's been a mystery for more than three thousand thousand years but thanks to science and some clever detective work by dog at archaeologists. We now have a better idea about what really went down. I I'm dirt archaeologist. I dig in Egypt Penn State University. Susan Redford food is well a dirt geologist had that's what I call myself. I dig scholars call. The papyrus frejus showed us the judicial papyrus of Turin. It's named after the museum intern Italy were it's normally housed but it's got another name. The HAREM conspiracy papyrus this document relates a conspiracy that was formed an instigated by the women of the Royal Harim Against Ramsey's the third to overthrow Oh him terezin rebellion and to also displace the crown prince. This isn't the usual stuff royal harems to ensure the family line. The Egyptian Pharaoh had a lot of wives they all lived in Harem. It started out as a special place in the palace but by the time of Ramsey's the third the harems had evolved into entire estates with their own many economies there was schools livestock agriculture dozens of wives even more kids in the wives had a very important job to keep the family dynasty going typically. There was a great royal wife and then there were several otherwise who suns could also be in line for the throne. I'm in the Haram had of been a hotbed of intrigue powder keg of different women <hes> especially if they board the king son's like Kusan gets to be on the throne next top priority was given to the firstborn son and as you might expect sibling rivalry was very real ever since she was a Grad student Susan's been fascinated by the Harem conspiracy papyrus and it really grabbed me of course. I think everybody loves a murder murder. Mystery Susan says scholars have known about this papyrus for a long time in the early eighteen hundreds of showed up at a market in Luxor a place that back then at least was like a garage sale for Egyptian antiquities it. Even cut into pieces probably so that it could be sold off in chunks for more money so it's hard to know how complete of a document it really is. That was obviously a lot of unanswered questions and there's a rather conspicuous omission. The women are not there where it includes the trial transcripts for the male perpetrators of the conspiracy and not the women the court records says next to nothing about them. Even though we know these women existed they were the kings property. The women of the Haram were Kings Chattel. We're never GONNA know their names or how many there were or what happened to them except for Tayo Taylor yeah the only woman mentioned by name in the papyrus and Susan thinks that Taylor wanted her son Pinta wear to become the next Phero she's accused of instigating the whole rebellion Egyptologists have speculated about who take hey a was for a long time one interpretation by an American archaeologist in the early nineteen hundred stuck but it didn't hold up for Susan one thing that caught my eye was that he mentioned that the assassination of the king was instigated by Tayo and he says this was a lesser wife of the king and that over the years had become entered repeated as though we're fact and I thought there's something funny about that because if she were a lesser wife of the king in the Harriman there were countless women in the Harine why follow her right because Tayo rally dozens of people to be her co-conspirators including several powerful figures the kings physician an army commander the royal magician to feel that she could raise a rebellion with many high officials of the king following her to put her son on the throne and <hes> and have the the country go along with this. I thought this is not a lesser wife. This is not some faceless member of the Kings Haram. Susan knew there was definitely more to the story. I wanted to investigate all aspects of this case Marshall All the evidence to try to come up with a full picture of what occurred but the more she looked into the document the more curious it God for example right at the beginning the murder Phero Ramsey's the third makes strange appearance. He's talking from beyond the grave. He's saying I'm already dead. I'm already among among the gray gods and he's almost washing his hands as to what will become these conspirators so wait. The dead kings ghost makes it into the judicial document. It's kind of Shakespearean right but that's spectral cameo has confused a few scholars for a long time so even wondered if Ramsey's the third had survived the assassination attempt but Susan is pretty convinced of her interpretation he died from this. There's no question but how did he die. The court proceeding doesn't identify a murder weapon. There's no play by play of the crime scene but we do have some physical evidence. The body of Ramsey's the third he was found stashed in a tomb with a bunch of other royalty when this the mummy me of the king was examined and he was examined in the sixties when they only had x ray machines they x rayed all the mummies the royal mummies the mummy of Ramsey's the third we knew he was assassinated in a conspiracy but these initial pathological examination with the next ray it showed no wounds to the body and you would think the quickest way to dispatch the king would be with you know you stab him. Yeah Ah but it seemed like a natural death there were other bodies to tucked into the same tomb with Ramsey's the third were a handful of princes princes some queens and priests all these nicely embalmed mummies and then this other guy. We've called it the screaming man because he looks like he died in agony. His head is back in his mouth is open and now the interesting thing about this screaming man was that he wasn't embalmed bombed archaeologist had never found a mummy like this before he was wrapped in a sheepskin which back in the day was kind of trashy thing to wear to the afterlife. This was one Janke mummy. The examination showed something else to showed that his hands and his feet had been tied meaning. He probably put up a fight on his way out. Maybe he was executed. It looks that way but why is he being buried with royalty. None of it added up so Susan kept digging she headed to a place along the now called Medina Habu. It's a royal compound that houses the Mortuary Temple of Ramsey's the third. This is the Kings Temple. It's all about him. He's The star here there are massive reliefs carved in the walls showing palace life religious ceremonies scenes of Ramsey's the third in battle in the first half of his reign. He was almost a hero king he made a name for himself early on owned by fighting off to foreign invasions I from the Libyans and then later a really big one from the people's of the see they were almost unstoppable and till they they faced <hes> Ramsey's the third in Egypt but the temple walls girls don't tell the whole story scholars say the fighting took a serious toll on Egypt's economy and then other problems started to pop up droughts famine in the first recorded labor strike so you get the feeling. Failing <hes> that he's losing support <hes> those conspired against him. They seem to be quite confident that the people would go along with the a rebellion but a rebellion isn't pictured on the temple walls either though the walls only portray the Faeroese greatest hits the V._i._p.'s in his life. There was a scene in the back wall of the Temple <hes> that showed the king sitting at one end of the wall cut sort of a religious just seen and there were two senior princes these should the senior sons obviously the sons in line for the succession but in another relief Susan realized the order of succession had changed the first prince is there but the second prince is missing and I thought Oh my God went unnoticed other scholars had noticed that in this relief a new person a different son is now second in line to the throne so why would Egyptian Chin royalty remove and replace such a high ranking Prince in the family lineup. I thought there he is this has to be pen to wear Pinta wear a son of Ramsey's the third and the son of Tayo he he was named in the papyrus as a chief conspirator along with Tia in her followers. Okay so in the first relief Pinta was the son who was second in line to the throne but in the second relief he's been replaced. I think we're on from ground and saying that since it was Tayo and her son was involved that that they really honestly felt that the sun pent to wear should have been the next in line for the throne. That's that's why they plotted to overthrow the Pharaoh and if Tassone was already that close to the top then tail wasn't simply a lesser wife she was queen. This was a queen but Susan says the writers of the papyrus downplayed details rank in the aim to keep the skeletons of this family drama hidden in the closet. This was disgraceful. I didn't want this blackening the family so this is what we know Ramsey's the third was murdered and if the aim of the conspiracy was to play on the throne that was sorted and that's where Susan left the story when she published her book in two thousand two but there's new evidence. Maybe you've heard the phrase deadman till details but whoever came up with that clearly hasn't met Dr Sahar Salim spend maybe more time with the Mommy's than with my family but just don't tell them so so hard a paleo radiologist in Cairo she x rays and C._A._T.. Scans fragile ancient artifacts. I love my <hes>. My mommy patients the mummy patient his <hes> sometimes is better than the the human human because <hes> they don't move think of her as a mummy coroner minus the scalpel so hard and her team have scanned loss of royal mummies and in two thousand nine Ramsey's the third was on her table. There's a lot serenity in the face of illnesses the third there was nothing funny or peculiar so just or average well-kept mummy. The face is with strong features. Although the Imbaba's they had the repping so tight that they flattened the nose of the king so horses there must have been miles of winning around the Faeroese body and so so we'll glued. She says that he was hard to unwrap anyone who tried probably got frustrated and gave up so harden unwrap him either instead. She slid him into a C._A._T.. Scanner the machine took thousands and thousands of of images and they just keep rolling the skins for hours and hours and look at each one of them. You you just get more and more acquainted with the mummy. The images were then transformed transformed into three dimensional composites so Sahara could see the Phero from all angles outside and inside and when I just put them together I just stood up of my mom my disk and I started dancing because I was very heavy imagine and can see what is inside the mummy and what the embalmers placed inside the abdomen of Ramsey's the third or four figurines of the sons suggestion God horus these were figures you might find painted on earns in ancient Egyptian. Tombs looks like a person another jackal baboon a hawk. This is like one of the most joyful moments in this hard study that I do to get to know something and to see it for the first time and there was a lot to see the body was filled with treasures the embalmers even try to put specific kind of Aminat the horse which has the characteristic of giving the healing power amulets replaced in his neck and around his feet that means that the this areas they need attention. They need to be healed for the body to be used in the drive after a sound s complete as possible so harsh is this is the idea behind mummification. It's to preserve the buddy eighty in order to be to be there for the life. After this is the exact buddy they are going to us but this mummy was wrapped include unusually tight so horses that's because the embalmers wanted to hide his injuries and. They remained hidden for a very long time. Remember those X. Rays done in the nineteen sixties the ones that made it look like Ramsey's the third died of natural death well Sahar scans should something different the there there. Was this a wide deep cut wound and the front of the lower neck. It's so deep that it reached the boone. This is sort of a fatal wounds that nobody nobody could escape. It's fate to really really bloody. Then there was something else and there is another one in the left foot the big to was totally chopped off and there was no evidence of healing. This is something that happened just prior to death to patch the Pharaoh up for the afterlife. The royal embalmers made a prosthetic toe they placed healing ambulance Oliver's body and they used lots of clue the murder of Ramsey's the third was coming into focus yeah. I'm bringing the crime scene back to life. We we got to know the plot with different assailants pending in different positions using different weapons so this is a really bloody crime scene that if you imagine happening in the palace witnesses yet a lot of chaos a lot of chaos and there was more to discover to a still someone else to be examined remember the other mummy who was found in the same tomb as Ramsey's the third the screaming mummy this money smelled smelled really bad he was Hastily Preserved Not cleaned oiled and wrapped no he was sprinkled with salt wrapped in a sheepskin stuffed into a crudely-made wooden box and he's still had his brain in guts which was really strange. embalmers always took those out but now with this guy. No one knew for sure who he was so Sahar check the D._N._A.. And she confirmed that the screaming mummy was related to Ramseys the third there is ninety nine percent that relationship is a father and son Shahar thing she knows who it is into where done too or was mentioned in papyrus that but <hes> he was forced to kill himself we've found that there were marks of maybe ropes at the neck it could be. They just asked or just forced him to to hang himself. It could be like that so we have Pinta where we have Ramsey's third but we're Taylor. I don't think we have her mummy. Archaeologists Susan Redford has a theory ancient Egyptian sometimes used fire as a form of punishment. They talked about <music> out when they burn people alive that then they're they've gone to dust I also they won't go into the afterlife and then that their ashes are strong on the road for donkeys to walk over. This is just about the worst fate imaginable for an ancient Egyptian total obliteration. Nobody know afterlife. That's the end of you. That's it that said well. That's it until until thousands of years later when some dog archaeologists decide that's not it. I think that as an Egyptian this is something that I have to do. I honor the bodies I examined I look at them them as my great ancestors the great kings that they deserve all the respect and the honor and I hope by doing what I'm doing is I'm bringing kingpin back to life and that is how their stories live on to learn more about the Harem conspiracy check out the links are Shonno's right there on your podcast APP and be sure to subscribe to overheard National Angiographic Overheard National Geographic is produced by Robin Miniature. Emily Oxen Show Water Kristen Clark Brian Ryan Gutierrez and Jacob Pinter our editors Casey minor and Ibi Caputo Lonsdale soup composed our theme music and engineers are episodes with additional help from jail chef ski and Ruth Michelson Special. Thanks to the Pineapple Street media and P._S._U. Penn State. This podcast is a production of national geographic partners. Susan Goldberg is our editorial director. I'm your host Peter. Gwen thanks for listening and see all next tweet I there I'm fred. He burnt the archaeologist in residence at the National Geographic Society. If you'd like to learn about the Harem conspiracy an ancient Egyptian scandal and explore the judicial virus of Turin for yourself you can the papyrus scroll is part of our Queens of Egypt exhibition at the National Geographic Museum in Washington D._C.. which has been extended by popular demand until September fifteen? Two Thousand Nineteen hope to see you there. Hey we want to tell you about start here. It's an award-winning Daily News podcast more partners A._B._C. News. It features all the top stories the day in just twenty minutes from the latest out of Washington to the foreign story.

feral Ramsey Susan Egypt murder Queens Faeroese Dr Sahar Salim Susan Redford Tayo Taylor Washington National Geographic Museum Mortuary Temple of Ramsey Peter Gwen papyrus of Turin Ramseys Fred wines Viking National Geographic Royal Sandal Europe
JonBenet Ramsey ////// We Have Your Daughter

True Crime Garage

1:46:02 hr | 1 year ago

JonBenet Ramsey ////// We Have Your Daughter

"Introducing the Jeffrey Epstein. I knew a new podcast from CNN. Hosted by Vicki Ward the seven episode series. Takes you behind the scenes to hear a one of a kind account of Epstein an individual. Who's more myth than man Vicky Ward has been reporting on Jeffrey Epstein for almost two decades and takes listeners beyond beyond the headlines to explore who Jeffrey Epstein really was where he got his money and the circumstances surrounding his death subscribed to the Jeffrey Epstein? New New. Wherever you get your podcast? I don't have time to be stuck at home this season with the flu and neither do you this winter. Treselle camp to knock out a cold at the I sneeze unease of the season. Other cold medicines only mask cold symptoms but Zych am homeopathic and clinically proven to short colds. When taken at the first sign not only Xichang Xichang cold remedy safe and effective but the citrus rapid melts are easy to take with you on the go and they even quickly dissolve in your mouth without water? You can find ends. I cam cold remedy products at all major retailers including Amazon Walmart and target visit Xichang dot com slash garage to receive a two dollar coupon on on your next purchase Jon Benet Ramsey she strangled with Colorado victim. Jon Benet Ramsey unknown intruder Robin Ramsey. Fill the parent sir. John Ramsden. Anybody have been him mm-hmm and I went more. Who is responsible Mr Ramsey? Listen carefully we are a group of individuals they represent a small foreign faction. We respect your business but not the country that it serves at this time. We have your daughter in our possession she. You're safe and unharmed. If you want her to see nineteen ninety seven you must follow our instructions to the letter you will withdraw one hundred eighteen thousand dollars from your account. One hundred thousand dollars will be one hundred dollar bills and the remaining eighteen thousand and twenty dollar bills. Make sure that you bring bring an adequate size attache to the bank. When you get home you will put the money in a brown paper bag? I will call. Oh you between eight and ten. Am Tomorrow to instruct you on delivering. The delivery will be exhausted so I advise you to be rested if we monitor. Are you getting the money early. We might call you early to arrange an earlier delivery of the money. Enhance an earlier pickup of your daughter under any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate execution of your job you will also. It'll be denied. Her remains for proper burial. The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you so I advise you to not provoke down speaking to anyone about your situation such as police FBI et Cetera will result in your daughter honor being beheaded if we catch you talking to a stray dog she dies. If you alert bank authorities. She dies if the money is in any way marked or tampered with she dies. You will be scanned for electronic devices. And if any are found found she dies you can try to deceive us but be warned that we are familiar with law enforcement counter measures and tactics tactics. You stand a ninety nine percent chance of killing your daughter if you try to outsmart US follow our instructions and you stand a one hundred percent chance of getting her back. You and your family are under constant scrutiny as well as the authorities. Don't try to grow brain John. You're not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult. Don't underestimate us. John used that good southern common sense of yours. It is up to you now. John Victory S. B.. TC Okay most people use the phrase ransom note. I'M GONNA call this a ransom letter because as you just heard it is long. Most ransom notes are short. We have your daughter. We want five hundred thousand dollars do not involve the police. We will contact you. This ransom letter is two and a half pages long written on your standard run of the mill. Eight and a half by eleven and three quarters inch paper now. What you're going to here is the captain and I tear through this ransom letter? You're going to get our opinions on different pieces of this letter as well as the instructions given to John Ramsey Ramsey on how to get his daughter back our opinions are going to be a combination of our personal opinions. Plus information that we've collected from other sources along the way who have scrutinized this same ransom bladder. I'll start us off captain with this up at the top of the letter at the beginning of the letter. Yeah there there. Is this great website out there. That's called statement analysis dot Com. Okay so some of our thoughts are some of the things that we mentioned here will include their thoughts as well. They are great website because they analyze these types of ransom letters as well as nine one one calls in. They have experienced doing doing this. You and I well. We got a little bit of experience ourselves doing this as we've been doing it now for several years but statement analysis dot Com. Tom They stay as well as a couple of books that I've read on this case the first line that they kind of question is the we are a group of individuals digitals and they point to this because a lot of people says this letter as a whole just doesn't make sense right and one thing that I want to keep in mind here here and we kind of did a little running around in our discussion last week about this case. But I think what's very important in the Jon Benet Ramsey Ramsey case to keep in. Mind when you're looking at each one of these items as we're going to do. I think you need to stay fluid fluid and you need to stay in the moment of what's going on with the case you know we were talking about the police showing up and how they didn't secure the scene and and You know people would point out. Well they don't even know if it is a crime if a crime took place right why should they secure it again. I believe that you WANNA stay. Fluid in that moment when you show up you have indicators pointing toward a kidnapping for ransom and so therefore it is a crime scene so obviously we do know some things that are going to come to light. We can look at those as much as we want but in the moment keep in keep in mind in the moment stay fluid as we go through this statement analysis dot Com as well as several other sources. Again points out that the letter is a whole does not make sense and they specifically Klay referenced. The line of we are a group of individuals pointing out. What exactly does that mean? What does the writer of this letter mean right because every group is comprised of individuals? I think it's a lie. We are a group of individuals. You would to say we are a group. That's true the other thing too that John Douglas would point out in his experience with random. Letters is that often. The the kidnapper is the authority in the situation. They're the ones that are going to call the shots. They're the ones demanding the ransom you're going to do this or that or this. Or that's going to happen or not going to happen. And he points out in his experience that often a you want to perceive a larger threat than what is actually going on. Because you as the kidnapper really only knows what everything that's going on the victims don't know everything that's going on. They only know what you choose to tell them in your letter right so John. Douglas would point out. Hey we are a group of individuals. We are a group if it was in fact just one person did eh kidnapped in wrote this letter. Then that makes sense to him because they would want to present themselves as a larger than life a larger larger threat. They're bigger they're scarier. It's not just one person. It's a group Brian. That evidence is followed back We represent a small foreign faction action. I think just that term is to back up the idea of a group of individuals the small foreign faction makes it seem like Something bigger and then when you get to we respect your business but not the we respect your business but not the country that it serves. Yeah again I think that's tobacco the small foreign faction The sounds very movie like to me. Yeah my thoughts here. They represent a small foreign faction. The use of the word small doesn't make sense to most because now it's it's the opposite where you say we are a group. You're trying to make yourself seem bigger. The threat seem more real bigger. Now smalls taking that down a notch foreign faction sound scary sound scary to me. But it's weird. Just those words together. The use of the word foreign sounds odd even if they would be foreigners to us. They likely wouldn't call themselves foreigners they would say something like we are the Islamic Jihad right. They wouldn't call themselves a small form. In fact I think it was serious. Ciro Wax Book where he states even a small foreign faction would not call themselves a small foreign born faction. It's just a weird weird statement. Yeah but I think right away it's it's establishing the mindset. You know this individual thinks. They said they're going to outsmart people with this nonsense I think the biggest thing in the letter to point to that it's not a group group of individuals is when he changes the narrative. And I'M GONNA say he but when he says I will call you I will call you between eight and ten am. Now I'm jumping some lines there but I think that goes back to a group of individuals vigils. The we turns to I correct and to me. That's proof that there was never a we. That's like a Freudian Slip Bright. Yeah that's that's interesting because at first analysis for me what my thought was if he saying and I agree with you will continue to say he he if he is saying we are a group. Oh and these men have your daughter right. You follow my instructions. Maybe he's the leader of this group. Maybe he's the brains the mastermind behind this whole operation. And he's the one that's going to be giving instructions. What makes it not work? That theory not working work is as you just pointed out that it starts with we and it ends with I so it does change along the way yeah. I think some people would argue well because because he's not with the other two individuals so that's maybe why he changes to. I will call you because they're going to be with your daughter but that's too much information. It's almost like stadium like once he goes to I again. If there's a group well there with your daughter they'll be monitoring you I'm not going to be with your daughter The very strange but I think also we can start by looking at this. No and I think it's pretty pretty clear to most people that it starts off a little sloppier and gets nicer as we go with the handwriting. Yeah the penmanship. Yeah not a lot nicer but a little bit nicer and I wonder okay so there's so much to get into one. Where did this individual right the note we we do know that the the paper this came from a pad inside the Ramseys home home? That's right there was a pin that was found in their home that they believe was the pin for note so this could go multiple ways. Did the person possibly steal the pad write the note and then bring it back. My issue with that idea would be both. Yeah you wrote the note. But why would you bring back the pad doesn't make sense to me But the note seems creased. which to me? Why would you crease? Nope if you're writing reading it in the kitchen or where that pad would be and then you're just transferring over to the steps why crease they sit. All the crease is very weird to me as well and I'm I'm with you that I've never thought of the idea of somebody writing the letter elsewhere and and then returning it to the scene not that that's impossible anything in this case in particular. Anything seems to be possible muscle decreases odd. Because wouldn't your objective your goal as the kidnapper who wants a ransom now. Now there's people out there going well we you know we know this and we know that again. I'm staying fluid in the moment analyzing this particular item this evidence as it is in the moment. If we are to believe the ransom letter the goal of the author of this letter would be for for the parents of this girl to find the letter as soon as possible why we know that because of instruction given in the letter do not contact the authorities if they discover discover their daughter missing before they find this letter they could very well screw up that whole instruction by not knowing any better and calling the authorities. He's our daughter's missing right. We haven't found the letter yet. Why crease it Patsy Ramsey? Says she finds it on the spiral staircase and it's three pages and has is laid out side by side so we know that at some point the letter was not to be concealed. It was to be obvious it was to be found by the parents and and for the sake of not contacting the authorities. Well I'll tell you what. Why don't we tried to start at the at the top of the letter just work our way through and try to hit each thing along the way? I think it'd be easier for us all to play along at home. The letter starts off addressed to Mr Ramsey not to John Ramsey not to John and Patsy Azzi not to the parents. But two straight up Mr Ramsey which I find to be interesting for several different reasons reasons. It's a choice that the author is making. It's a choice to only address this to Mr Ramsey. A lot of these ransom Notes that we've seen in the past they don't even need to address it to anyone the line that we have your daughter clarifies exactly who the letter was was intended for right so it was a choice to address it to Mr Ramsey. Now one thing that a lot of the TV shows documentaries point out in in this case the next line is listen carefully and they all point to that being weird because this is a letter. It's not a speech. It's not somebody shouting threats at somebody or calling on the phone. This is a letter. You're reading the words the word say listen carefully. You don't listen you're reading I get it. That's never seemed weird to me. I I've always taken that as just like I'm the authority. Listen carefully here we go. Yeah I think it's a little strange elma sounds sounds like something you'd say on the phone. Call them listen carefully. I have your daughter. Yeah but I also think is it that big of a deal probably not but also also I wonder if that points in any direction on where they got this possible idea to kidnap a girl in the first place all right then we have the letter we respect your business. Okay we have your daughter we want one hundred eighteen thousand dollars or she dies. But Oh by the way Mr Ramsey. Here's a mild compliment. We respect your business right shows that they care about Mr Ramsey at some on some level and some people have pointed out that if Patsy Ramsey was the author of the ransom letter that she may have chose to mention this to create some kind of distance between John's company and the investigation bright regardless the writer is aware of John. Ramsey's business sir. The letter and that he is successful right. If the rider is interested in a ransom they are targeting. What many believed to be a weird amount of money one hundred eighteen thousand dollars in cash at the ready according to Steve Thomas's Book Jon Benet inside inside the Ramsey murder investigation from a leading detective on the case the author wrote we D Show Letters D. O. with the? Da Crossed out. We we do respect your business deck. Detective Thomas takes that to mean. Either we do respect back to your business or the author was starting to write out. We don't respect your business but then changed their mind. mid-sentence this this you really have to question as it goes to motive right because at this moment in the investigation looking at this letter this is supposed to be laying out the motive for what is going on here and it would point out that the author is if Thomas is right that they were starting to write. Don't we don't respect your business. Right at. The author is undecided if they respect Ramsey's business up into the point of writing that sentence if it is an intruder who wrote the letter letter. It's just you broke into this man's home and according to the letter to kidnap a small child and threatened the parents with the beheading of the child. Yet you're undecided on how you feel about John's business. Yeah but I also think to me. This point says somebody copying in a letter My gut feeling says that this letter was composed somewhere else and they thought to be. I'm going to be real smart about this and get away with it so therefore I'm going to write the letter inside the house use pin from inside the house or use a paper from inside aside the House I wouldn't bring the layer that I wrote with me and it might have stated we do. Respect your your business but then messed up and then realize while well you can just put we respect your business that works too. But there's obviously there's edit there but I but I I believe the person is reading off their letter and maybe there's not a lot light in the house and so again I also think one of the reasons why it's sloppier in the beginning a lot of people when they start writing it's a little sloppier but I also think it's sloppier because this individual is not wearing gloves right. Oh I think you know gloves and could be very nervous. Bright and maybe the nerves are easing up as they continue to write. I KINDA AM with Steve Thomas here on his thoughts about believing that the writer was intending to write the word. Don't we we don't or we do not respect about your business because we do respect your business or we respect your business the same sentence and it's not necessary to cross out do in that in in that moment so that seems weird now the writer goes on to say we respect your business but not the country that it serves. So are we to believe the Jon Benet was kidnapped and then murdered because someone has a hatred for the United States. Most people would agree. This crime is not an international national incident. So it's just weird to put that in there that to play that toured motive. We you know maybe be. There's many factors based in to why you are going to leave this letter but to include we'd you know the we don't respect the country that it serves that your business serves. It just seems a very strange thing. I think this is pointing out to what you say. It's it's not a group. It's not a small foreign faction but if we mentioned some distaste or hatred for the United States in that same letter it's it's there too it's purposely. Put there to confirm that we are a foreign entity right right again. I think it's as simple as I'm going to throw some of these these things into try to throw you off the of who I really am but I think the fact that they sit there and say while we respect your business. That's A. They made that choice. Therefore they're showing some kind of concern for Mr Ramsey later on. They show some concern for him when they say You know be rested causal. The delivery will be exhausting. I advise you to be rested. We you would not put that. If you didn't in care about the person on some level this is another example of people say well that's shows up. Patsy Coulda wrote the note because she the the writer keeps showing affection almost for John on some level. Captain I respect your talent but not the garage that serves deal with that. Get Out of my garage. As you pointed out the writer misspelled to very common words One of them being business and the other possession however the writer then correctly spells the words deviation and attache even including the accent on the word attache many believed that the writer purposely misspelled those two words to try to make it look like an uneducated in person or again a foreign person wrote this note. Yeah alive people pulling that to be patsy Ramsey and the idea that okay. We're soon down to write this. No we're trying to disguise our handwriting. So we make it a little more sloppy at the beginning. That's hard to keep up over two and a half pages ages. So that's why the sloppiness goes away but also at first of all. Let me misspell a couple lanes to throw them off the scent and then they kind of forgot about that. Because I don't think there's another misspelling for the next paid in the half. As you point out captain both of the misspellings occur when there is a double s US double letter S. situation. I think maybe this could be a tell. Almost like a signature or fingerprint. If in fact this was not made eight up right I want everyone to just stop and think for a minute. Do you have a couple of words that for whatever reason your brain just seems to jumble up the letters in those words or or screw up the spelling of those words regardless of how often or how many times you look the word up. have an auto corrected or ask somebody for the spelling captain. Did you think of any words that that that you have trouble with fish pony hip hop hip hop anonymous. Damn you you give him all the easy ones. All the whole English language is very very difficult for me to spell anything correct. I wonder again like you said is a tell or is it on purpose not on purpose to spell it wrong but his the author trying to give us a hint of who it is By making these mistakes so the reason why I say that it could be a signature signature or almost like a fingerprint for the author of the letter would be is if this person always miss spells. These two words when somebody would be aware of that like for me. I know the vacuum and convenient does towards. I'm like I'm never never going to spell them correctly. The W for years always screwed me up. I think I've straight actually I take that back. I think I've straightened out my vacuum situation. But for whatever reason convenient is the most inconvenient word for me because I always want to put the I in a weird spot I I will never get it right but anybody that I have corresponded with many times may know that that I always have trouble with that word. And then they could think of all nick the extra crispy. Colonel wrote this ransom letter because he jumbled up the eye and convenient. Yeah I I don't know why you'd put vacuum in a ransom note but it's your ransom note so your party. I did what I didn't write a ransom note. I just asked everybody to think of some ladder. Some words that that they always have trouble with why I wanted to mention that we have commas and here so we have some some kind of knowledge of writing and we also have the big one to me is your you're right A lot of people get that wrong. There's different yours right. Yeah off the top of my head. I think think all the yours or correct. Yeah I didn't look at that so I'm guessing that they are and I know a lot of people probably sitting there going. I ever bizos right. NOPE nope that's like the one of the number one pet peeves. I have on facebook when people get their yours wrong so I worked in a small office years ago go foreign faction office. Yeah and I remember. There was a conversation that needed to be had. If that's even correct grammar probably probably not but there was a conversation that took place in a meeting where they addressed the office as a whole probably not to embarrass one or two do people in particular but that was the the exact conversation that they had to pass down. That needed a trickle down to some some of the employees. Your yours are always wrong in in your business letters and your e mails and this that and the other thing and it's a reflection of this the company they you don't know how to you don't know proper grammar bright it's just like when it's there and they're all those like weather and whether those drive me nuts when people get them wrong but join us after the beer break when we discussed math hellofresh America's number one meal Kit get easy seasonal seasonal recipes and premeasured ingredients delivered. Right to your door. All you have to do is cook and enjoy breakout of your dinner with hellofresh Twani. Wani plus seasonal chef curated recipes. Each week there's something for everyone from family recipes to Calorie Smart and Vegetarian and fund menu series series like Hall of fame and Craft Burgers. hellofresh makes cooking delicious meals at home reality regardless of your comfort in the kitchen from step by step recipe disappeasr to premeasured ingredients. You'll have everything that you need to get a wow worthy dinner on the table and just about thirty minutes Selo. Fresh is flexible and fits your the lifestyle at extra meals to your weekly order as well as Yummy. Add on's like garlic bread and cookie dough and easily change your delivery days food preferences and Skip Kipa Week. Whenever you need? hellofresh is a must go to for anybody. That is busy anybody that has a family anybody. That's cooking for one or two. I cannot stress this this enough. The food is super fresh super delicious easy to Cook and prepare and you are going to amaze yourself and wow your friends and family with delicious meals. A captain and I have been subscribers for years and I am now a Ninja full black belt all in the kitchen because of hellofresh. Yeah I felt like my skills in the kitchen have gone up immensely. Since we became subscribers. Get nine free meals with hellofresh by going to HELLOFRESH DOT com slash garage nine and using our Promo code garage nine. That's hellofresh dot com slash garage nine and enter Promo Code Code Garage nine simply safe as my choice for home security as comprehensive professional home security at a fair price and right now is the best time of year a year to get a simplisafe security system my listeners get a free security camera plus a huge discount on your security system simplisafe protects every room door and window with twenty four seven professional monitoring a smart lock and video doorbell defend your front door from porch pirates inside an arsenal all of sensors and cameras. Cover every inch of your home. If there's a break in they can give real time video confirmation to police as it happens so police respond up to three point five times faster plus simply safe makes it easy on you. There's no contract hidden fees or fine print and prices to start at just fifteen dollars a month visit simplisafe dot com slash garage. Get a free camera. Plus simplisafe's holiday savings this offers for a limited the time only and it's ending soon visit simplisafe dot com slash garage today at simplisafe dot com slash garage designed with measurements for millions. Gins of women thirdlove's Bra styles are made to fit your life. They have over eighty bra sizes but know that the only one that matters is yours we love third. Love Love Proud to sponsor third love. My mother and my sister is their favourite sponsor of the show the feedback that we have received from friends and family and listeners across the board hands down they say that third love is there Goto when shopping for their bras the comfort and the quality is top notch. And I've even spoke okay to some ladies at say. They will only shop at third love now that they've tried their fantastic products. This is hands down the most comfortable brawl. You'll own and was straps. It won't slip tags labels and lightweight memory foam cups mold to your shape plus returns and exchanges are free and easy and fact back thanks to thirdlove's perfect fit promise. Every customer has sixty days to wear wash it and put it to the test. And if you don't love it return and third love love will wash it and donate it to a woman in need their love. nosers a perfect Bra for everyone. So right now they're offering my listeners. Fifteen percents off your first order hurt. Go to third love dot com slash garage now to find your perfect fitting Bra and get fifteen percent off your first purchase. That's third love dot com slash garage for fifteen percent off today. All right we are back cheers. Meets and cheers to you captain as I raise a glass of Christmas bomb two thousand in nineteen by the awesome folks at Prairie Artisan Ales this as an imperial style thirteen percent. ABC Garage grade four at a five bottlecaps cheers. Everyone as we continue on to the next portion of Var ransom letter estates. At this time we have your daughter in our possession. She is safe and unharmed. And if you want her to see Nineteen nineteen ninety seven you must follow our instructions to the letter so the writer tells us we have your daughter in our possession. Most people would agree three the shortest way to say something is the best way to state it especially in a ransom letter. A true kidnapper would have said we we have your daughter. The words in our possession are simply understood and unnecessary and really just in those couple of lines. There seems was to be several extra and unnecessary words. Next you will withdraw one hundred eighteen thousand dollars from your count. One one hundred thousand dollars will be in one hundred dollar bills and the remaining eighteen thousand and twenty dollar bills. Make sure that you bring an adequate size attache Shea to the bank the amount of one hundred eighteen thousand dollars this all things considered is a relatively small amount of money based off of the ramseys wealth or perceived wealth and John. Ramsey's company is doing very well. They just did. A billion an annual sales was made public. We discussed the news articles that came out regarding this. John's net worth in nineteen ninety six was in the millions. And wouldn't you agree. A nice round number would be more typical than one hundred eighteen thousand dollars so there should should be a reason why the writer chose one hundred eighteen thousand dollars and even John Ramsey agrees that that number one eighteen gene is could be significant to the killer. Yeah couple things here one if we believe the writer on what they're stating I'm calling you. We have two people that have your daughter so we at least have three individuals so now you have to split that three ways so I we think it was one person now but what I'm saying if we believe all the letter. Yeah where assistant shoe men watching over your daughter. Yeah Yeah Three. Were a minimum three. That makes them out even lower. Everybody's going to get roughly about forty grand What's that GonNa do for you right it? It's not worth the risk of of the amount of prison time that you're signing yourself up four if you get caught right so not a large amount but that again goes back to the idea that were probably dealing with one individual and not to you or again somebody that is falsifying a ransom note to cover up a murder and one thing that's been pointed out many many times over the years years in fact it was pointed out very early on in the investigation and the public's Investigation into the RAMSEYS. Let's say was it the amount it may have been significant because John Ramsey's Christmas bonus our annual bonus for nineteen ninety-six was right around the same dollar amount. There was actually two things one his same dollar amount roughly for the bonus and I wonder if this is also kind of a tip of the hat to asking for this amount because I know you got as a bonus so therefore it will be easy for you to give to me. I know it's available possibly also think it leads people to believe that whoever wrote this. No if it's not covering up inside job that it's it's basically stating I know your bonus you know me brought up by also also think that is kind of smart. I'M GONNA make it seem like were this big organization while actually a small foreign faction but were a group of people group of individuals. And if you just do what we say and give us this amount that we know is pretty small to you. This will be done and over with and I almost think that they picked this amount because they knew it would be available and that possibly because of John's wealth that they'll just go get the money and not contact the authorities right and the interesting thing here too is we. We have Steve Thomas who points out that look. That amount could be important because it could be indicative of his annual. Oh bonus that he received that year like you pointed out if somebody else knows that if somebody that wants to stand to gain some money from this whole situation they know that that money could be readily available rather quickly that this is. This is money that this dude dude can actually get his hands on. We all see people drive. Fancy Cars live in big fancy mansions. That doesn't necessarily mean that they can get a hold of any cash. Asia might be up to Denton up up to date to their eyeballs and have no real cash no real liquid money or whatever to pay. Hey such a ransom stinky hard cash and then you have to think about the banking system hundred and eighteen thousand. For some of. That's a multimillionaire. They can go in there and get that money and one transaction right. If you make the amount to high half a million or Mil- million that's going to take some time mm-hmm again the more time that this person has to process this the more likely they are going to go well We have to to contact authorities And so again it becomes this thing where it's like. Is this a smart amount. Because they're just going to try to get I look. I don't think the money is the main purpose for any of this right. But but saying fluid in the situation right we discuss it but this is some evidence that points to that. Possibly Patsy Ramsey writes the note or John Ramsey your together they constructed this letter better. Yeah Yeah and I think if they wrote this note together that would make some sense also would make some sense on why we have some scratch out mark's right. Oh No don't do that. I mean let's just get into the handwriting analysis. John they kind of ruled out as being the author of that doesn't mean he didn't help her right it But it seems like his handwriting samples. Don't match at all on a scale to one to ten. He's zero doc. But as far as Patsy Ramsey goes she's on the lowest scale of matching handwriting samples. She's on a very low spectrum of that on like a one to ten. She's at like maybe at two but cannot be cleared cannot be clear cannot be ruled out. And what's weird about her to is. It seems like there's speculation that she actually can write with both hands ambidextrous. Yes so it's like That's that's a that's a word I want to put into a ransom note. I can drink beer with both hands right very talented individual. So here's what's weird about the amount to me EH is. This is just like everything else. And I don't know if we mention this last week captain but I know we've talked about this and our personal conversations stations are personal talks about the Jon Benet Ramsey case. Is that even the sources you go to to try to find the truth to try to sift through all the bow Boesch Bullshit Bullshit and just get to the truth started bullshit and the real hard core evidence the problem with that all even the sources even the good ones sounds even people that you and I agree that we respect they all seem to have an ax to grind the the in it. So you don't know if you're getting the one hundred percent honest to gods truth so the public perception for a long time. was that well. It had to be John Ramseyer Patsy Ramsey that wrote the letter it wrote the ransom letter because they would be the only ones that would come up with this random amount of one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars. They would be aware of that because that amount amount was on their brains because of the bonus that he had recently received. Then you have the others the Ramsey supporters that will say you know you would have anybody. There could be several people at his company. That would be aware of that amount. There could be people at his bank. That would be aware of that amount now and the Ramseys were not particularly neat freaks and they've had a lot of guests they always are having guests over to their home there. There are people that could have worked at their home or could have been there as a guest and could have seen this information lying about somewhere in the Ramsey home and came up with that amount so wiles a strong argument for either in my opinion. Yeah and I also question. How braggadocious Patsy Ramsey was and. Is it possible that she was telling people at the Christmas party. All will drink up. You know because John got a big bonus or whatever. I think. That's a possibility as well and and there was a lot of people in that house like you said in all it would take would be somebody tons somebody that told somebody that told somebody but this also also amount goes to and. I don't WanNA overlook this too much Mr Mac I believe his name is there was a guy that was fired. Geoff Merrick yeah a guy that eventually you know John Ramsey said. Hey this is somebody that we should look into. He's making threats and basically his pay was the argument that they had was. You know around this dollar amount So he was looked into because of these threats and because the John could also prove that this dollar amount was pretty much. What they're arguing over so he was looked into his wife was looked into now on the high end of the spectrum? I think we talked about him before. A MERRIMENT MR MERRIMENT which he was? I think tested say I I think patsy Ramsey wrote the note four times of who she was tested four times again the more and more samples that she gives you now. You're not comparing note note. You compare note to four notes. And that's what led us to the bottom of the barrel that she possibly wrote it. This Sky Merriman. He was he actually wrote the note. I believe seven times and they actually put him on the higher spectrum. You know I I on a scale one to ten. He's maybe eight or nine he hit more markers. Yeah if they're looking for nineteen different markers to indicate kate. This is the author of the letter. He's hitting more of those markers than Patsy Ramsey. Yeah by ten times and eventually when they came back and wanted him the right another sample he said look. I have rode enough to fill the library of Congress. If you want me to write anything more come back with handcuffs This no doesn't make a lot of sense at all and this amount doesn't make sense but I know that John Douglas and I believe another F. B. I.. Agent profile owners have looked at this amount and looked at this no and thought this kind of points to a male in their late teens may be early twenties. He's because again because amount would be significant to them. Yeah and younger person but I also think That makes a lot of sense and these guys are experts. I mean maybe not as much as I am but they are experts but I also then question. Is there somebody else that this this is a lot of This is a bigger amount to where hundred in eighteen thousand might not seem like enough of a reason to kidnap kidnap. Somebody but again. I don't think that's the reason I think this is just kind of icing on the cake and again why not pick a smaller amount to get get it done and over with well even one hundred eighteen thousand dollars. That's a whole lot of rolling papers. Yeah so here's the thing I do want to point out Steve Thomas Promise. His book is fantastic. Regardless of you agree with his opinions and theories on the case I highly recommend everybody picked that book up and check it out. There's a lot of information in there. Does he have an axe to grind everybody that we will name. I can't speak for the captain but my belief is everyone the one that we name in this seems to have an ax to grind. But I think is ego. He states well. But I believe with Steve Thomas he he he firmly believes he's right. He has some things that to him. Point out to him that he is right and he's just he's trying to push us out to the public and say look. This is what I believe happened and why so. I'm fine. With with hearing his opinion one thing he states about this one hundred eighteen thousand dollar dollar amount. This is one thing that is. I've not seen it reported anywhere else so I want to make sure I bring it up here before we move on. He states the there was some notes that he found in John. Ramsey's personal. I don't know if it was a journal or personal notes that John Ramsey made aide about his personal finances and the number one hundred. Eighteen thousand was significant as it was referenced within those notes now I don't know if that was liabilities or liquid or what but it was it was significant according to Steve Thomas in those notes and so he's pointing running out. Forget about the bonus because a lot of people could have known about that. This could be a number that SIG significant to John Because of his personal financial santeuil notes that we found in his office. That's interesting but then we also have a few other interesting takes on this one thing. That's been pointed out many many many times and I just have such a big issue with this whole that. Look this case. This investigation is salacious enough without coming up with Halloween stories to add on top of it. But there's always been the speculation Out there throughout the years that all one hundred eighteen is significant because it references psalm. One eighteen from the Bible and the Family Bible inside the Ramsey home was turned to psalm. One eighteen which discusses child sacrifice in the Ramsey's are satanists right. Sorry that that just doesn't make any damn sense. It doesn't add up number one number two point hold on if you got sacrificed warner kids I mean. Don't you pick the ugly one. I don't know the I don't know the first thing about child sacrifice or the or sacrificing my own child but what I will point out is is the law enforcement stated first of all. The Family Bible was not turned to some one eighteen. That never happened. They never found that. To be the case it wasn't marked. It wasn't bookmarked Psalm. One eighteen doesn't seem to hold any significance. To this case for the Ramseys on top of that read the Bible Psalm. One eighteen doesn't discuss child sacrifice. So it's just it's just a theory. That's all kinds of wrong. It's interesting it would make like for a good movie. If you're put together good horror flick that would be something of interest but it doesn't seem to mean anything now. I like what John Douglas States about the amount of one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars. He states that you know that if you were to convert that money to another currency Douglas Douglas points out that. At the time Nineteen ninety-six one hundred eighteen thousand dollars. Roughly translates to a million pesos. See so either either pointing out again as a little wink wink hint situation that this could be a foreign entity or a foreign person or he also states. You know it could be somebody that was younger and looking to flee the area after receiving the money and and hide out Mexico. Yeah so it's interesting that there are several different reasons for the possibility of this this odd amount and again John Ramsey himself agrees is that the the number is probably significant to the killer. Now the phrase I actually I should say this captain just before moving on also like other things with this case it could have no significance at all. It could just be one of those weird things. That's the amount that some crazy sicko go on the spot came up with and that's all you know and that's all it means now. It's totally a coincidence. Then we have the phrase your account in the letter. This is interesting. The author could have just said the bank. You know you get the money from the bank right and I'm not your account. Also this is implying that the kidnapper knows that. There's that dollar amount at least in John Ramsey's account then. If patsy Ramsey was the author then we can see how and targeting the note toward her husband she would use the phrase your account versus my account. Right make you know. Make sure that you bring inadequate size attache to the bank. Most kidnappers are not going going to remind you to bring an adequate size case to hold the money. Plus this has got to be a rather uncommon word I can. I can think of only a handful of times other than the Ramsey case where I have even heard the word attache us or seen it on a piece of paper her. Yup I again this to me points. I mean we we gotta look intelligence level and I would say that this individual writing the note whether it's Patsy Patsy or somebody else we know. Patsy has a higher education. I if it's not patsy at somebody else with higher education because I just don't think that ah they would even try to use that word then. The suggestion that you be well rested. I'm surprised they didn't right. EAT OATMEAL for breakfast. You're going to need your strength. It the kidnapper. Frankly doesn't give a shit if you're well rested right or not you know doesn't care about your feelings. Feelings are about your your health your physical well being. They want their money. But again this could be immaturity. This could be somebody quoting dumb shit from a moon addressing. This could be this could be patsy not understanding how to be a as aggressive verbs. Maybe as she should or this could be somebody. That's actually close to the Ramsey family. that it this is like A. You're writing seen too much. You're giving too much away and and I think a lot of people believe that little tells like this point to that it's somebody that knows the family. The word attache was written with an accent place over the letter e most people in the US do not use this special character actor. It may have been used because the writer wanted the authorities to believe Jon Benet was kidnapped by a foreign faction right the rider. May they have used it because he or she is educated. The other thing we have to make take into consideration is that Jon Benet. His name was written with an accent. Patsy Ramsey was accustomed to using the accent when writing her daughter's name. Yes she all. She wanted her daughters author's name to sound French right. So you will withdraw one hundred eighteen thousand dollars from your account. One hundred thousand will be in one hundred dollar bills and the remaining remaining eighteen thousand and twenty dollar bills. Make sure that you bring an adequate size attache to the bank. When you get home you will put the money in a brown paper bag? I will call you between eight and ten. Am Tomorrow to instruct you on delivery. The delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested. If we monitor you getting earning the money early. We might call you early to arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence an earlier pickup of your daughter. Note the author third row delivery of your daughter if you see this on if you go and look up the actual paper right. Yeah the author wrote delivery of your daughter crossed crossed out delivery and wrote pick up of your daughter so it reads mistakes and all we might call you early to arrange range and earlier delivery of the money and Hanson earlier delivery pickup of your daughter. The writer started to say that upon receiving the money he or they would deliver Jon Benet to the parents then realizing that a kidnapper would not deliver the hostage right but would tell the family family where she could be found therefore he changed it to pick up its Alpha that a a well thought out kidnapper would make this mistake. It's a strong wrong indication that the the writer was not an experienced criminal. Yeah which makes this case even more baffling because that no oh makes a lot more sense if if it's patsy writing the note and just really bad at writing a ransom note to cover it up and this is one the points where she goes Enhance Right She was kind of commonly known to use that phrase and I believe even burke uses that phrase when he when he's questioned by authorities but again is immaturity as this this somebody that's just trying to throw people off the set but also we might do this earlier instead of the call. I wonder if you're viewing Patsy as the author is this Setting up for them to change changed planes on the police if they have to. But I also think that depending on when you wrote this no and in what manner you did this this would be kind of a weird thing to kind of come up with off the top of your head yeah. Let's there's a lot to really dive into in this couple sentences sentences I believe so i. The word monitor implies a continual surveillance. This is further emphasized when the writer states you you and your family are under constant constant. Scrutiny the kidnapper would have US believe they are continually watching the Ramsey family which is very highly l. e. unlikely one but two goes back to that line of if we if we see you getting the money earlier we're going going to we'll make earlier arrangements to return your daughter right. A kind of. It's kind of underlining that yeah we are watching you and we will know when you go to get at the money the word hence as you pointed out is incredibly interesting. It's not a common word. The word hence is a former way of of saying therefore the rider starts out. The ransom note misspelling words giving the appearance that they are uneducated however his or their educational level begins to show when they use words such as hence we see the same writing style in the Ramsey's Christmas this message on December Fourteenth Nineteen Ninety seven the first United Methodist Church in Boulder Colorado held a memorial service for Jon Benet in the program. There was a message a Christmas message from the Ramsey family. This message was also posted on the Ramsey families website. In the message we find the statement had there been no birth of Christ there would be no hope of eternal life and hence no hope of of ever being with our loved ones again. Yeah it's suspicious but if there's also a enhance and their Christmas letter maybe it's again somebody that God that Christmas letter but this is the year after she was killed now but didn't say that there was and there was a in the original Chris- uh-huh Christmas letter that people would have gotten nineteen ninety-six as there are no enhance and that one I would have to go back and review that. I don't believe that there is is a and hence but there this this fact is from their December fourteenth nineteen ninety seven. Messages is memorial to Jon. benet right so that's very suspicious towards patsy Ramsey but if again like I said Burke a couple times I am says enhance and his. I guess you can call interrogation tapes questioning tapes. Is it just somebody. That's close to the family and knows that enhances something that Patsy Ramsey uses so therefore I I use it and my letter not so much suspicious towards Patsy patsy Ramsey but more of a clue that hey I know you were close you you WanNa hear one sad thing you. You mentioned their Christmas slender. And I I forgot about this. There's so many things involved in this case so many details involved in this case and regarding their Christmas letter that we we discussed last week that they sent out to their friends and family. Yeah they send it out so late in December. I believe I've heard the statement that everyone but just for the sake of being fair and not having that in my notes specifically I will stay the that that statement was most of the people receiving most of the recipients of that letter you're received it on December twenty sixth the same day that they had to tell friends and family. That Jon Benet was killed right. So just what a sad sad thing for friends and family. You get this happy cheery message about the Ramsey family and then find out that same day. The little girl that you read about in their Christmas message has been killed. Yeah also in these statements in this letter we have an unnecessary the word over any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate execution of your daughter you also be denied her remains for for proper burial. The two gentlemen watching over your daughter unnecessary words are words that can be taken out of a sentence taken out his letter completely. Lately in the sentence still makes sense. The rider could have stated the two gentlemen watching your daughter. Extra words give us extra information. What is the the difference between watching over someone and watching someone? According to statement analysis dot Com they say the best example is in reference to God. If someone were to say that God is watching over me then you have God keeping his distance he sees the person here she. I don't WanNa get into to that argument here. She sees the person but also sees the entire world at the same time. God can see the person because they are apart of the world while God is watching over that person they are also watching over others. The word over means God is spreading spreading his watchful eye upon the earth. Now if someone were to write or to say God is watching you it becomes more personal. It's a focused attention right. Another example would be if a friend asks you to watch over his house while he was out of town and this case he probably wants you to stop by every once in a while and make sure everything is okay. Maybe you'll pick up the mail. Water the plants. Whatever however if he asked you to watch his house he probably wants you to house it to stay there right? You want you to be there where you can keep a close eye on things. So on December twenty six. I think something else that we should point out is. This would have been Thursday so yes people are off work normally on Christmas. But there's a lot of people that go back to work on that Thursday so if it's not written by Patsy Ramsey I believe I would have to be written by somebody that knew that they had time to do this that that day possibly somebody that doesn't have a job or or is off work which could be a lot of people apple But I think it's important to point out. Oh Santa Claus is spent the whole time working just before that so I'm sure he is often often resting on that day. Statement analysis goes on while we're talking about words that are unnecessary. They go onto ad in a kidnapping. The kidnappers should be watching the abductee meaning. The word watching is also unnecessary. It would be understood. They will want to keep a close eye on her. They they want to make sure she does not escape or alert. Someone that she needs help they will want to make sure she doesn't harm herself. If her being alive live is dependent upon them receiving the ransom when the writer of the ransom note said they were watching over. Jon Benet the writer was telling us they were not keeping a close eye on her. There are only two reasons why you would not closely watch your hostage. One if you knew for certain certain she was all right and could not escape or two if you knew she was dead since dead body isn't going anywhere it it is something you watch over not keep a close eye on right. So let's be clear about this if it's Patsy Ramsey or somebody in the Ramsey household household then we know that Johnny is dead and so some of this stuff points to that brain My issue as always been the person it's an intruder they had time. So why wouldn't you write the note beforehand. If the goal was to take Jon Benet at the House the whole kidnapping suggests be a ruse. They maybe they even want money. They just are going to use this as a ruse to give them more time right watching over and all that stuff might not make any sense I to me it's less likely that the intruder ruder takes her to the basement. Kills her on purpose or on accident and then decides to write a note. My gut feeling says if it's an intruder the note was written before the death of job name and it's just immaturity Nana season criminal. Not a you know but I also think a lot of the stuff is leading to somebody with them. These education decent ability to who right I believe the person is giving too many clues on their close to the family and again. I don't know if the the dollar amount matters at all I WANNA stay on this for a little bit because I personally do not believe that the what statement analysis dot Com is stating here here in its simplest form that based on the language used in the letter. It appears that the writer already knew that Jon Benet was dead when writing the ransom ransom. Note right I don't really firmly agree with that and I think that when they say that they are trying to indicate that that means that it has to be patsy and John or Patsy by herself writing this letter already knowing that the daughter is dead. Right I I don't believe that. So much but staying staying on this idea of additional words or unnecessary words I go back to the we are a small foreign faction. We are a group group of individuals. The men watching over your daughter. This is a group watching over. Could actually apply the watching over your. Your daughter could make sense as we can't assume we know everything that the kidnapper has planned regardless of the long letter left on the spiral staircase. This watching over could be intended to imply. Simply the men took your daughter. I am the mastermind of this operation. And I'm leaving the ransom. No after after the fact they are elsewhere watching over your daughter the two men watching over your daughter do not particularly like you when we look at a copy of the ransom letter we find the writer originally wrote do particularly like you. The word not was written above the space between the words do and particularly align was then drawn indicating that the word not should be inserted between these words all right then we have of any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate execution of your daughter you will also be denied. Her remains for proper burial. The two gentlemen and I'm watching over your daughter do not particularly like you so advise you not to provoke them speaking to anyone about your situation such as police FBI et Cetera. Tre will result in your daughter being beheaded saying that Jon Benet will be beheaded is very unusual. Statement Analysis says in the United States. We generally do not talk about beheading people. This was put in the no in their opinion to make it look like a foreign faction was being being behind this kidnapping right now for me captain. This is the line that I have always questioned the most. Let's say Jon Benet died in in some kind of accident and then the parents covered it up. which is a very popular theory so they covered up and then write this ransom letter? They would still still be very upset about the death of their small child. They would still be grieving parents in a way. I can't I have a very it. Difficult time. Believing that parents for any reason would reference the beheading of their own child right. It's not not necessarily to throw that in that note to cover up an accidental death or something else your small foreign faction in the beheading makes me think and the season season right. Tis The season for one of the best Christmas movies of all time. And if you don't think it's a Christmas movie you're just wrong diehard makes me. I think that somebody watched die hard too much and went out. Yeah Foreign Faction You know be heading. This is the terms that they would use bright. If we catch you talking to a stray dog she dies. If you alert bank authorities. She dies if the money is in any way marked or tampered with. She dies as you will be scanned for electronic devices and if any are found she dies four times the writer uses the phrase. She dies if Jon uh-huh was still alive. The writer should have been speaking in the future. Tense she will die. This is a strong indication that the re the writer again knows that Jon Benet was dead at the time. This is again that same website kind of pointing out to the that we could have a cover up here by the the parents yet again. The cover-up makes more sense than but as far as the she dies. Okay while then she they would say well she will die die. This could be something going. Well that's this would sound more like a terrorist would talk. That's right she dies and and then after this she dies this this is this would be the terrorist or the threat level being turned up. Crank it up to eleven right scare the hell out of the out of the parents now. I really liked this portion that I found here it states. There are three times when the writer use an exclamation point exclamation points as we all know are used to add emphasis to the statement. Listen carefully this has an exclamation point and talking about killing Johnny. The writer does not use any exclamation points. Four Times the writer wrote sheet is we would expect this to be a point of emphasis in the letter but did not use them. When talking about killing Jon Benet this too may indicate indicate? The Jon Benet was already dead in the author. Knew this at this time. There are can you. You've been kind of hinting at this all day long here there. There are several movie references or close to quotes found within this ransom. Letter in the movie. Dirty Harry Inspector Harry Callahan Clint Eastwood. I Love Clint Eastwood. Is Looking for Scorpio. A man who kidnapped a little girl when talking to Scorpio on the phone several times time. Scorpio tells inspector Callahan. If he does not follow his orders the girl dies as opposed to saying the girl will die in the movie. The girl was was already dead in the ransom note. Jon Benet was already dead another very interesting thing. Is the letter only names John Ramsey by name. No one else I it's Mr Ramsey and then simply John. The note is addressed to Mr Ramsey however towards the end of the letter Mr Ramsey becomes John ongoing have a practice now at some point. Yes where it's It's addressed to both of to them so in the believed or what is called the Rough draft or the first draft often referred to as the practice note practice letter they find in the same note pad. It's believed that. Did this. Ransom letter came from the same note pad that they later found At the top of a page somebody wrote Mr and MRS I. It looks like I because what the the authorities authorities state is it. That is the down stroke for a capital are that the intention was for to be Mr and Mrs Ramsay Z.. And then before even completing the capital are the author change their mind and then decided to address the letter simply to Mr Mr Ramsey just to John Right which look this is a pad that the this drives me nuts because it's like the housekeeper could I said I'm going to write a note real quick to Mr and Mrs Ramsay or anybody else that worked at the house could set down so yes they believe it's possibly at practice. No but there's also other explanations or other things that you can speculate that is that there was no practice. I know we don't have anybody to claim that that that little letter right there. You know the Mr Mrs I right. I think if somebody the worst claim that it would be easy more easy to dismiss. But because we don't have that may appear to most that a possible practice letter nobody's saying definitively that it was right but there is evidence to certainly point that it could be you and your family are under constant since scrutiny as well as the authorities. Don't try to grow a brain John. You're not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult. Don't underestimate a US. John used that good southern common sense of yours. It is up to you now. John Again this pointing I think to somebody. That's closer sir to the family then the small foreign faction but also it's simply input point towards Patsy Ramsey. Well Yeah Yeah I mean. This is an indicator that the the author of the letter has some general knowledge of John. It's it same as the the dollar amount right. It's the same as knowing that he would be able to pay this amount. Use that good southern sense of yours that good southern common sense of knowing that he's from Elena China right and then addressing him as John. I'll tell you what though for all the reasons that many people point out that the letter itself shows no level of criminal sophistication. I WANNA point to one sentence that I believe shows a good deal of understanding and criminal sophistication regarding getting the ransom in that is. Don't try to grow brain John. And we know that that's reference reference probably from a movie from from speed where he says. don't grow brain. I'm on top of. You're says something like that and that that's a that's an the individual that's looking to collect a ransom in the movie but this line right here can you are not the only fat cat around. So don't think that killing will be difficult that to me show. Some criminal sophistication right there. That to me is the person who's demanding the ransom to say you know what on top of that don't deviate from these things because there's a lot of people to say. Well you don't pay a ransom because you're no right away that the killer the abductor will not kill the abducted person the abductee because if they do kill then the likelihood of getting the ransom goes down significantly. They've not they've not upheld their end of the bargain every this line because they're saying don't deviate from us because guess what we don't care we will kill your daughter and then we will take somebody else's kid and we'll give them a ransom and somebody will pay US eventually so don't try to outsmart here. Just be this is a very short way of saying. Don't try to outsmart us here. Just do the right thing and pay us Because we'll do this again. We're not we're not worried about giving you your daughter back. We're not worried about losing out on the ransom because we because you screw up and we have to kill her while so you have one line that we believe is coming from dirty Harry but you say that there's a kidnapping there so that's interesting and then the fact that there's another line that we go that might be from speed and there's a ransom there. I wonder if we're missing other lines from movies. He's well and dirty Harry. There's a line if we catch you talking to a stray dog. She dies Well sorry that's from the the ransom letter but it sounds. Sounds like from dirty Harry if we if you talked to anyone even if it's a Pekinese on a lamppost bringing on a lamp post host. The Girl Dies Dad's from dirty Harry. Are we missing some other references to movies and to me. That's a again. I find it hard to think that John and Patsy. Their daughter is the accidental death for and they're trying to cover ever up for their son. This is their child doesn't have to be cover up for their sun. Though there's anybody could give the accidental death but right right right you're right but what I'm saying is this is our beloved daughter. This is I love somebody. Somebody said Well it even. If they didn't care about their daughter they would they would have been upset about their investment who who makes those claims towards parents there is no oh evidence that John and Pats Patsy were horrible Satan worshippers and didn't give a shit about their little daughter so if there's there there was an accidental death whoever's responsible at the end of the day we have a dead six year old daughter so I think for them to sit. Sit around and come up with this letter to me. It's cutesy. Oh we'll throw in that line about what you know. What dirty Harry say? Oh yes say something like that. What was that movie a woes at line speed? Yes say something like that. It's too cutesy That their six year roll daughter died. And and in this case. For whatever reason it's like oh well the little bit of money that doesn't make monsters. She spent a lot a lot of time with her daughter. No matter what you think that is you know and I am also so sick and tired of people on well. They set her up and they put her in a position. -sition where there's all these pedophile calls and and so really even if they didn't kill her if they're not covering up an accidental death that they really brought this upon their daughter. I'll give me a break. Your kids ain't safe anywhere. I have friends that have been molested by teachers. Counselors boy scout leaders bus drivers soccer coaches priest pedophile are everywhere. So it's the the claims that we can make when there's no evidence beforehand or afterwards of them being horrible militias people. It's just it doesn't make a lot of sense to me like I said it's too cutesy. I'll try to throw in some movie quotes. There's no evidence of them being horrible militias people people beforehand either so this to me is the most interesting portion of the letter and actually it's what is not in the letter patsy is is not named Jon. Benet is not named but his referenced as your daughter or she brian. This is interesting. Because what if it's it's possible that the person that wrote the letter did not know the little girl's name or at the very least did not know how to spell l.. Jon Benet. That's not common name. I can't think of anybody else that that shares that name right. Is it possible that they avoided that name because they didn't know how to spell it also. Could the intruder have only known John Ramsey's name. Yeah it's a difficult one because because you think you know with intruder theory a lot of people go this. This person must've been obsessed with this little girl if you're obsessed with her when he you know how to spell her name and also if you wrote the note beforehand and then brought it with you or or wrote a note beforehand and brought that with you and then copied it down and Europe Sas Sass with her. Why when you put her name but again? Maybe there's all these little tells that if it's intruder that they know the family well right but maybe that was there. I actually disagree with that. I think that the only indicators that we have is that the intruder may know John. Well again. Pointing out no Pazzi. No Jon Benet all the references that that would indicate that they know of the family. And maybe you're just using family in a loose term there right but it's all towards John Mr Ramsey John we respect your business business We know that you're wealthy. One hundred eighteen thousand dollars us that good southern sense of yours right all John and and there are theories out there intruder theories that person's believed that the intruder yeah. Did they do some horrible things to Jon Benet. Yeah they killed her. But the the the intent was to was to harm John Ramsey right be on emotional level or whatever not on a physical level oh but that was the motivating factor for the death for the murder or the abduction of this. Little girl was to heart and possibly destroy John Ramsey that the the killer or the abductor hat was seeking revenge against him or was or sought to destroy this man. Yeah it makes sense to just focuses on John if you're if the writers patsy because what would make you think that you should focus on yourself right so that's where I I think people go This had to be patsies doing. And here's the thing too and I'm glad you point that out because that's something that I think. Most people kind of skip over when they look at this case here so many people people go. Oh it was the parents or it had to be the parents. You can run different scenarios in your head where it doesn't have to be the parents it could be a parent aren't right. It could have been one or the other. It doesn't have to be a united front of of the two right because you killed covered up in then it's the two of them against the world going forward bright because what's interesting in this case. Is You have a lot of people that think patsy was up all night long long and that her husband he took a sleeping aid so he passed out. And what if all this stuff happen and now she is responsible more. She feels that she's responsible and she doesn't think that John will understand so that she has to cover this all up on her own. It's possible hole but I also think when I think about the intruder theory is that maybe this person had a affection for Patsy as well and that that's why they didn't put her in the letter they didn't name her you. I mean like if I'm GonNa Talk Trash to somebody I'll talk. We'll talk okay. A little stick to John. But I wouldn't do that to Patsy so I'm not going to do then the letter when you say that this individual would have it out for John Right Right The evidence against that is if you have more hatred towards somebody. You're not going to be so polite. You'RE GONNA YOU'RE GONNA spew a lot more venom and that doesn't happen. You don't think you're the only fat cat around. Don't wait so you're you're kind of giving them a compliment just in that statement you'd think a lot more of like John Use a piece of Shit and you're GonNa pay us and you know you're a horrible person and your and Your Business Sucks. You know what I mean like. But they're the two complementary to him so I I doubt the hatred then we have the weird ending of the letter. They're the victory S. B. T. C. S. BTC. It appears there's no period after the letter C.. Just after the other three letters others people have for so many years have wondered what could S. b. t. c. mean that has always been one of the most popular questions in this case. One of the most popular popular theories is that it stands for Subic Bay Training Center right. Subic Bay is a bay. On the west coast of the island island of Luzon in the Philippines about one hundred kilometers northwest of Moulana Bay and extension of the South China Sea it shores where formerly the site of a major United States Navy facility named US Naval Base Subic Bay which is now the location of an industrial and commercial area known as the Subic Bay. Freeport on under the Subic Bay Metropolitan Authority. We point this out because many people have suggested that John Ramsey who was stationed as Subic Bay may hey have come up with this S. B. T. C. because it means Subic Bay training center however in the description that we just gave you it clearly tells you that there is no entity that exists with that name right. Subic Bay Training Center. That's not what that place was called and and as far as I could find there is no training facility station there. Nobody would have any reason to refer to the United States Navy Navy facility named U S Naval Base. Subic Bay as Subic Bay Training Center. Another possibility captain is the S. BTC could mean saved by the cross which could mean a number of different things statement. Analysis says this is because of the ramseys professed faith in God and because the word victory precedes the initials S. BTC as all Christians know is through Christ's sacrifice on on the cross that we have victory over death. The ramseys were religious and attended church. As we mentioned in the timeline. Patsy beat cancer answer to and it has also been suggested that saved by the cross is a reference to patsies victory over cancer as BTC could could would have meaning to the perpetrator or to the perpetrators relationship to the RAMSEYS. Org Jon Benet or what is probably the most likely situation relation is that it means nothing at all that it has no real relevance to the case at all I believe Patsy at one point when asked. SBA could mean she said son of a bitch. Tom Carter which was someone the family knew but that of course it just seems like like Kooky Talk. I mean. It's just yeah. She had no filter really right. Well you know I do like that about her. There's a certain charm charm. John has too much filter right then. PATSY has no filter. Yeah it's Son of a Bitch Tom Card while there is a guy I that they look into and one of the new documentaries where he would sign his name he had like aliases And and the t would stand for truth so it was his alias but he would put truth in there but again they once you do more research search you go while this guy was connected to Colorado. But he couldn't have been there at the time so I think everybody's grabbing at straws trawls for this one I questioned the letters themselves so S. B. T. C.. That's what we're assuming is because again uh I think one of the things that really points to the fact that patsy didn't write this no because if she's calling nine one one this would have been not not much after she already wrote the note. Bright it could have been minutes could have been hours by. They asked her who wrote the know. Now who's at from and you almost here you have to. You almost hear the thinking though wheels turning and she asked to go to the back and say. SP T. C.. Then she reads up victory If she wrote this now she would. Yeah your your your knee jerk. Reaction would be to say victories. BTC or just simply SBC. Yeah without a pause who are the no. SBC Okay. Well more likely that she wrote the note but when she has a search through it because she claims she didn't even read the whole note She got to the point where you have my daughter. Oh Shit Shit I gotta go check on my daughter. Oh Shit John John Yeah come help me all we you know John Maybe reads the no. Maybe doesn't maybe we get the same part. We got a call the police and then at some point. You're going how shit now we call the police. But they're telling us not to call the police but again she reads up and she says as BTC victory If she wrote the now you said start with victory as BTC or say s BTC quicker. I questioned the letters and this is what I mean by Patsy. Ramsey is the one that determined this is S. BTC This is pretty sloppy handwriting. I don't know if that tea is a tea. Or if it was supposed to be possibly a Jay Jay because because if you look at every other T- son of a bitch John Carter some of his term if you look at every other t the bottom swoosh Sean t goes out to the right and when you look at this t- it almost looks like there's a dot Well it is a felt tip pen. Okay so I do WanNa throw this in there. According to Steve Thomas they had verification from the Secret Service United States secret service that one of the felt tip pens in the little. You know everybody's got their little pen pencil holder that contains multiple pens ends and pencils that that pen and Pencil holder contained a felt pen that authored the letter. According to Steve Thomas and according to what he states is proof from the secret service said they were able to determine that the the die or the ink doc I guess would be better to say was Was a perfect match for one particular pen in that that holder. Why point that out felt tip pen because if you anybody that's use them often knows if you just kind of hesitate to pick up your pen it will leave? What looks to be a dot at the bottom of a letter or at the at the end of a stroke that you just finished? Yeah which I get but again and I think this is more deliberate and the reason why is because look at every you when they see why. Oh you right at the bottom of the why. What happens with their pin actually goes to the right look at a hundred percent when they make the percent sign? Where does the pain go naturally? Actually t to the right to see that. What was the last one you just stated? I'm I'm reviewing the US so if you look at the US. The bottom of the Y.. Always starts curving to the right even on the on the bottom of the DS. If you look at the word you when you say you I thought you meant the letter U Yeah you're right with the the Y.. At the start of the word you and at the end of the word victory you can see right here on page three. Yeah it it goes to the right a little bit. Yeah and then if you look at one hundred percent are the bottom of the percent sign it goes to the to the right and that happens over and over almost every y goes down into the right Even even the FS and you're right on the day goes to the left on well on the T.. It goes to the left making it impossible j yes just but only on the S. T. C.. So I think it's possible that the person started hurrying and through this a little bit more and that is sp J. C.. Right could be. Yeah and could this. So some of 'em bitch Jesus crisis how it is now no it could mean anything again it could mean nothing at all could be here. Look look the truth of the matter at the end of the day is the ransom. No is a farce. However you want to spin it whoever you believe to be involved it's a fake meaning? Whoever wrote it never intended to receive any ransom? I believe that one hundred percent okay. So what you're saying is if Israel by somebody in the family. They're covering up. They're make they're making it look like it's something else and upper an accident or they're covering up a murder okay. If it's an intruder it could just be a false. It could be a farce from the beginning. And they're still planning on taking her and that just doesn't work out and then they left the scene and move about their business. I think it very likely that given what we we know of the wine cellar in what we suspect of the body of Jon Benet that if this person or this group had any intention of taking this little girl and removing her from the home that this letter was constructed structed to buy them time meaning win the the thing with the intruder. I'm Kinda with you and I'm not saying that I believe it to be an intruder order but if it were if I were to say yes I believe this was an intruder. That's responsible for the murder of Jonbenet. I believe that the the intruder theory Only works if the letter was written was constructed before the attempted abduction of this girl right and that there was no really true intention to ever return her. There was no true intention to collect on that ransom that this would have been more likely a sexually motivated crime time and the letter was constructed to buy this Sicko some additional time right and that could be for either her any number of purposes or just simply for the purpose of getting away a fleeing the area or distancing themselves from the crime itself. Don't contact police if I if I can do anything to stall law enforcement from the if I can do anything to stall the experts from getting involved then. I'm going to do that because we we all know. If you don't solve this thing in the first forty eight you don't have a suspect. In the first forty eight I seventy two time is the killer time makes it more difficult to solve these cases and this is a particularly complicated one and so I believe if it were even an intruder cruder the idea would be to distance themselves from the investigation to slow the start and progression of that investigation. I I pointed that for several reasons because even if somebody look we we know that she's killed we know that she's killed somewhere in that home and then the body. He is left somewhere in that home. Even if the kill the person killed her had intended to take her for the purpose of a ransom. You you would still remove the body because you could still collect on that ransom. Even though she's dead the persona that she's dead right and even and even if they were even the sentence of denied a proper burial indicates that the author of the letter understands that even the return of a dead body has some value. So I don't really believe that. There was ever any intention of collecting on a ransom and we went through the timeline. I will contact hugh between eight and ten. Am Tomorrow to give you instructions. There was no contact. Nobody ever reached out for any reason at all. I think I think it is also very important to keep in mind. I think one of the smartest things that Steve Thomas added to this case is where he states states that eight to ten. AM is so confusing. Because we don't know what the author means by eight to ten. Am because because this crime we. We're talking this. All went down in the middle of the night if if the doctor attempted the abduction auction after midnight well then eight. Am To ten am tomorrow. Could mean the next day so I think it's all it's all very lost sense. Yeah and again I think I believe that the person if it was an intruder they they wrote it beforehand and either copied their own note and tried to make a couple of corrections to it or whatever. Yeah and that's why we have those as little scribble marks but I think they wrote it beforehand. There's too many cutesy like little references and little things about like Hollywood Hollywood. Not even so much even if you say. They're not quote in any movie. It sounds like stuff that would come from a movie. They could just be quoting things or or not specifically quoting movies but just again grabbing window-dressing the the the comes to mind right when they think of all. What would what a kidnapper who wants a random right by? What do I think a ransom letter should look like? And that's why I think it's what what I I believe and I'll go forward moving forward with this is it. I believe the ransom note is the random letters a complete farce and that either points to it points to motive for me either. It's a cover up an inside job that had to be covered up or it was in fact an intruder and the whole purpose of the ransom letter was constructed in advance and it was constructed to slow the investigation to to delay the start part of the investigation. Maybe the parents don't call nine one one right away because they're scared and they believe the letter they believe. They're going to get their daughter back. That doesn't have to have any indicator whether the author knew in advance that they were going to take the girl or or kill the girl inside. It has no nothing to do that at all. It's just points everything in this letter points to me that nobody had any intention of collecting okay. So crispy colonel if if you had to bet right right now if you had to wager your whole life savings One hundred and eighteen thousand dollars hundred eighteen thousand dollars and you had a wager that against a small foreign faction. Is this coming from mm-hmm inside the Ramsey family. Or is this coming from outside the Ramsey family okay. I would walk up to the window to the the betting window and I would place fifty nine thousand dollars that the author of the letter was an intruder and then I would place my I would wager my remaining fifty nine thousand dollars. That one of the ramseys are both the ramseys. wrote the letter highlight. Are you like that wager right there. Yeah that's a horrible alien sir. I'm going to go if I had to bet it's an intruder. They simply safe. Is My choice for home. Security is comprehensive professional home security at a fair price rights and right now is the best time of year to get simplisafe security system my listeners get a free security camera plus a huge discount. On Your Security System Visit Simplisafe we save dot com slash garage to get a free camera. Plus simplisafe's holiday savings this offer is for a limited time only in its Indian soon visit simplisafe dot com arm slice garage today that simplisafe dot com slash garage introducing the Jeffrey Epstein. I knew a new podcast from CNN hosted by Vicki Award this seven episode series. Takes you behind the scenes to hear a one of a kind account of Epstein an individual. Who's more myth than man Vicky Ward has been reporting on Jeffrey Epstein for almost two decades and takes listeners beyond the headlines to explore who Jeffrey Epstein really was where he got his money and the circumstances surrounding his death subscribed to the Jeffrey Epstein? I knew wherever you get your podcast. Wow what an episode is two hours of us and I'm yeah we want to thank everybody for listening for Toma Friend. Thanks for sharing on social media for everything true crime garage check out true crime garage dot com download the stitcher APP check out our other show off the record on stitcher premium. Do not. Ah Forget to join us back here tomorrow for episode four until then be good. Be Kind and don't let.

John Ramsey Ramsey Patsy Ramsey John writer Jon Benet Ramsey Ramsey Jon Benet Ramsey Detective Thomas John Douglas United States Ramseys Jon Benet Jeffrey Epstein Mr Ramsey colds Patsy Patsy Ramsey family Colorado CNN
JonBenet Ramsey Episode 3

OWL Once Was Lost Podcast

19:15 min | 3 months ago

JonBenet Ramsey Episode 3

"Turn off low everybody. Welcome to another edition of the owl once was lost podcast. We are the podcasting tool to the once was lost missing persons phone application. She can find on iOS for Apple and Android devices, wherever you get your podcast from just make sure and subscribe and also to download The Missing Persons application make sure and also please hit the five stars for us that way the algorithms can make it much easier for us to be found on Apple podcasts dead. So keep in mind everybody as I say every week over 800,000 children go missing in the us alone. And a lot of these cannot just be prevented but also solved just by using apps such as the owl once was lost phone application again for iOS and for Android devices, it works on the theory of large numbers. The more people that have the application which obviously is free to download and keep that the easier it is for us to get boots on the ground and have people looking in your area. God forbid the worst occurs. Also Thursday were open for help on patreon.com. That's patreon. Once was lost. That's o n c e l l o s t and just pledged $3 a month help us to maintain the app keep the podcast running. There's some higher tiers in that that have some merch included but you know, just the $3 a month would be shown. Your support and you would be part of the solution and not a part of the problem. So that's really what we're looking for is for people to help out on that aspect should be again a part of the support for the missing out there. So the last we left this we had a lot of these tabloids thought were gunning for the ramseys. Of course. It was a lot of information out there concerning the family and how they were being singled out by the detectives and most of the headlines read daddy. Did it been a autopsy Mom and Dad guilty or the handwriting evidence fingers Patsy them wrote The Ransom notes. And again, it was kind of weird at the time how they were even getting a lot of this information, but the globe came up with a graphic crime-scene photographs of the Ramsey house dog. A time but the National Enquirer held its own publishing a chat with Patsy out shopping while the star ferreted out that a large amount of child pornography had been downloaded on access computers back in January the globe offered a reward of $50,000 for evidence leading to the arrest and conviction of the child's killer that prompted the ramseys to raise the $50,000 reward. They had offered to $100,000 in July the globe up the ante to $500,000. That's a lot of money especially in the nineties citing unnamed Source within the investigation the tabloids have laid out two primary theories. The first has it that John Ramsey killed his daughter after a quote sex game that went. Awry the second posits that package Ramsey walked in on her husband molesting the child grabbed a heavy object and swung him but hit her daughter by mistake A variation on this theory. Has it that Patsy in a rage struck her daughter dead. Or threw her against a hard surface both Theory suggests that jonbenet's death was not planned but accidental and then elaborately covered up and why have the ramseys Natsu perhaps be a murder defendant actually has more of a right to privacy than a libel plaintiff. He can always take the Fifth Amendment if we sued for libel, he loses the privilege whether the ramseys are innocent or guilty of that says First Amendment attorney Floyd Abrams, I would advise them not to sue because they are suspects and who would have to have answers to the most intensive and intrusive questions if that time if they were to do a show there is evidence to support certain contentious published in the tabloids some contentions rather that the autopsy report released in full by court order in August established that wage job and they died from a tremendous blow to the side of her head which caused an 8 and 1/2 inch fracture and from garroting. Dr. Richard Krugman a specialist in child abuse brought in as a consulting job. Hunter's office says that there was a vaginal aberration as well which is a sign of trauma but it's not assigned necessarily a sexual abuse doctor cerewet. He will not a forensic pathologist has no doubts that the 45 pound child was molested if she had been taken to a hospital emergency room and doctors had seen the general evidence. Her father would have been arrested. He said the vaginal opening according to dr. Robert kirschner of the University of Chicago is Pathology Department was twice the normal size for six-year-olds, the genital injuries indikitch penetration. He says but probably not buy a penis and there is evidence of molestation that night as well as previous molestation. You are also blood and urine stains on her Underpants considerable obstacle to investigators. According to One well-placed Source in the DA's office was the fact that the crime scene and the body were cleaned up, although not sterilized. Adding to the mishaps the corner didn't examine the body until seven hours after it was discovered and then spent only 10 minutes at the crime scene. That's that's just crazy folks. Anyway, just stunning According to some experts was the Revelation that the child had evidently been redressed after her murder jonbenet's parents told investigators that she was wearing a red turtleneck wage Amma top when they put her to bed. She was found in a white one a red total turbo Mac was in her bathroom sink navy blue fuzz balls adhered to her body and investigators are searching for a faxed to those casting doubt on the theory that an intruder killed JonBenet where the state and the position of the child's body. She was fully clothed and covered with one of her blankets the loan not yours around her neck and right wrist were as investigators say very loose and consistent with the staging more over there were no signs of forcible entry and no footprints in the melting snow Iraq. House Greg McCreary ads that pedophiles and rants on the kidnappers never overlap pedophiles grab the child molest them and discard them Ransom kidnappers or in his strictly for the money. He says, although the coroner did not specify at the time of death or a time of death a neighbor told police that she had been awakened shortly after midnight by a very loud piercing scream coming from the direction of the Ramsey house. The ramseys told police. They had heard nothing John Ramsey's children from his first marriage both Melinda 25 and Johnny and rue21 along with Melendez boyfriends Stewart long arrived at the Ramsey house at 7:55 p.m. On December 26th Ramsey ran to the curb to meet them along a medical school graduate told police that Ramsey had said that Jon Benet had gone to heaven and that he had found her body at 11 a.m. Although according to police reports. He found the body at 1 in the afternoon. So that's bit strange as well. Following day investigators video tape and interview with John Andrew at the conclusion of which they asked him what he thought an appropriate punishment for the person who committed his crime should be after a long pause. She said forgiveness and credulous to the detectives went into the brutality of his half-sisters murder and asked him to reconsider his answer and other Silence ensued then he said again forgiveness Johnny Andrew Ramsey and long declined to comment considering that he isn't a Ramsey there was really no place for this searing tragedy in the exemplary life of John and Patsy Ramsey access Graphics head outperformed his best expectations in a 1996 had revenues of 1 billion dollars Patsy had celebrated more than a year of her life from her cancer which struck her in nineteen ninety three. She had great plans for her family her work at the Junior League and of course jonbenet's career. The child had already been crowned Little Miss dead. Charleroi America's Royal Miss National tiny Miss Beauty and Little Miss Colorado and had one more than a dozen talent and personality Awards the buzz on the pageant circuit was I was going to be this is a one-way trip basically for Jon Benet that she was going to win all of the different prizes. John Ramsey had been raised in the middle class town of Okemos, Michigan the Elder of two sons, he been described then and now as extremely quiet and reserved his mother Mary Jane been a a homemaker died in the mid-seventies and his father James was a decorated World War Two pilot who ran the Michigan Aeronautics commission until he retired in nineteen seventy-nine. That's a win Gibson eighty-two who still lives across the street from the old run Ramsey home says of James they always call them Czar Ramsey because he really ran the York Airport this way it Ramsey friend who met the older Ramsey in the mid-80s recalls that he was very cold like John was wage. Everybody had Michigan State University Rams. He became president of the Theta Chi chapter and in nineteen sixty-six. He married a college classmate Lucinda past following a ROTC training Ramsey spent two years in the Navy stationed at Sub sub Bay in the Philippines while earning his Pilot Wings after receiving His Master's in marketing in nineteen. Seventy one thousand Ramsey signed up for the management development program at AT&T Jeff Marek met with him that same year when Ramsey was living in Columbus, Ohio. He's extremely quiet says Merrick off and some and gregarious man adding. He could be very Charming in nineteen seventy-three Ramsey moved his young family to Atlanta and went to work at a computer company, although he and Merrick drifted apart. I stayed in touch and in 1976 during a visit to Atlanta American his then-wife stained with John and Lucinda and their children at that time. Jim Marino met with Ramsey on a business name. To Syracuse in the late seventies. We immediately became friends said Marino he was going through a divorce at the time but he'd always check in with the kids. However in his own quiet way John Ramsey also has a guy for the ladies according to police reports. His former wife. Lucinda said, it was a romantic plays on with a co-worker. That was the last straw for her although Marina and Ramsey, correct and whored around together. Marino said Ramsey was notably discreet. He never got much out of him said Marino you wondered what he was all about. Although Ramsey walked away from his first wife with little money is closed in a car. He slowly began to prosper as he worked his way through a series of computer companies. His success has Marino was part of his appeal to women. He had money he drove a Porsche and he dressed nice but he was shy however, you could say that whatever he went after he usually got in 1978 Marino after being injured in a motorcycle accident was confined to a wheelchair birth. Almost a year John came and visited me and gave me a job said Mourinho. He saved my life. Although the two went to work for different companies in nineteen eighty. They remained very close friends engage in seventy-nine Ramsey caught a glimpse of a beautiful twenty-two-year-old brunette in Atlanta and pursued her two years earlier. When a journalism major at West Virginia University Patricia, and Paul had not crowned Miss West Virginia and had won a talent award for a dramatic reading of the Miss America Pageant Marino who often double dated with Patsy and Ramsey said his friend was deeply smitten with her. She was his Jackie Kennedy in 1980. They were married in Atlanta Peachtree Presbyterian Church at 37 Ramsey was fourteen years older than passy and the couple settled into a mate. Let's keep caught house and the Dunwoody section of Atlanta, which is a very very nice area of Atlanta. I've been there. It's very very nice Ramsey ran his own company MicroCell from his house and Patsy work to log. Tri dim after a series of business reversals Patsy asked her Father Don Powell a retired Union Carbide engineer to help her husband's struggling company and the word is said that John was going broke and donned bailed them out financially although Dawn and Nedra Powell were able to raise their three daughters Patsy Patricia Pamela and Polly pasch let in the middle class town of Parkersburg West Virginia. Both had endured Hardscrabble childhoods rescued by the g. I bill daunted obtained a college degree which led to a career at Union Carbide networks are done as his Great White Knight San Marino and contrast to her laconic husband. The wiry Nedra was driven and Relentless determined to see that her daughters enjoyed more of the good things in life, and she had said to his vehicle for launching them into a Prosperity was beauty beauty pageants. So I did my first pageant when I was a junior in high school p and Paul told me I won Misty job. America in 1976. I won the national crown for that and I want a local Country Fair contest at the Wood County Fair in nineteen seventy-seven which Patsy also one in nineteen eighty-three years after Patsy all the crown Pam. Also was Miss West Virginia and a Miss America contestant natural become a fixture on the pageant circuit. She was involved in the whole Miss America Pageant organization when I met them said Marino, she was one of the coordinators Jeff Marek didn't meet patssi until 1982 though. He was on a business trip to Atlanta and Ramsey and fighting over for dinner after dinner. We went to a big disco and Patsy and I danced but John didn't dance with Patsy. In fact in the twenty years. He's known him Reno has never seen his friend show physical affection. I never saw John hug Patsy or even give her a kiss. Even when we were dating. He said the first time I saw them clutch was after the murder and I saw him hold her hand on T when they left the church birth. Real by the mid-1980s John Ramsey working with his father-in-law was doing well enough to move into a sprawling Colonial House in Dunwoody Patsy saw to it that both of the ramseys daughter from his first marriage were given coming out parties Judith Phillips be violent attractive photographer first met Patsy Nineteen Eighty-Four when Patsy was working with Phillips husband marum development company in order to be friends with Patsy. You have to accept her into the family because they are such a big part of her life. Especially your mother said Phillips. Sometimes natural wisdom. Not just said things that were so so called out of flying and shocking but the woman is unbelievable in her loyalty towards her daughter's Patsy and Judy Phillips raising children, roughly the same age were drawn to each other. Although there were differences Patsy was very pro-life said Phillips. I was a feminist Patsy who was involved in Atlanta Junior League in a ladies who lunch charity called social T off. And up until the birth of her son Burke. She worked Philip said Patsy had very expensive tastes. She had 18th century art work and exquisitely antiques and John at very expensive and classic taste when it comes to his clothes. He liked his toys. He had his boat named Miss America and a plane in nineteen eighty-nine Ramsey murdered his company with boulder-based access graphics and another firm these control of the new company and in nineteen, ninety one relocated as family to Boulder among his new hires were his old friends Jeff Marek and Jim Marino Ramsay son said they hit the jackpot showing access to Lockheed Martin and continuing to run it as president and CEO Judy Phillips who had moved to Boulder three years earlier. Wondered if Pat's he would have had a hard time making the transition from the Antebellum capital of the South to a small town full of hippies Buddhists and mountain climbers that pretty much sums up that area. However Patsy now the mother of the four-year-old Burke log. Born Jon Benet assured her that she was ready to have a different life Don Paul adapted easily and moved into a company condo on Pearl Street natural Paul. Whoever made no bones about feelings concerning Boulder referring to it as that hellhole in November. Nineteen, ninety one, the ramseys purchased a 6800 square-foot Tudor style house and one of Boulders Choice neighbor is for about $500,000 over the next two years Patsy remodeled and decorated her new home spending According to Jim Marino seven hundred thousand dollars. She was thrilled to Hash House listed on the boulder Christmas tour as well as on the home tour visitors recalled her greeting them at the door with Jon Benet and Burke by her side all of them and matching sweaters featured in jonbenet's room or trophies and medals one visitor said that in huge master bedroom suite Patsy's Miss West Virginia dress and her Miss America competition is dead. For laid out on the bed. Although the ramseys had been Presbyterians. They joined st. John's Episcopal Church. Social climbing said Marino sadly, that's what it was about. She wanted to be where the money was dead friends were dropped as well as the replaced and attractive wealthy Boulder rights were made friends with Karina says, I was never invited to his house John and I were let's get a beer down at the local pub after work. All right guys, we're going to take another break there and we're going to pick up on the third part of this four-part series next week. Please hit the five stars for us. And please. Okay. Patreon.com once was lost, you know, help us out with a $3 a month. That's just enough, you know, a couple of cups of coffee over an entire month, maybe two months actually and you could greatly help our efforts here and also obviously go and download the app if you've got children or you have any elderly grandparents family members anybody struggling wage? Either mentally or physically, this is the app to have and it can literally save somebody's life or even your own. So, thanks again guys, and we'll see you next week.

Johnny Andrew Ramsey Patsy John Jim Marino Ramsey house Patsy Ramsey John Ramsey Jon Benet ramseys Atlanta murder Jeff Marek jonbenet Patsy Nineteen Boulder America West Virginia us Dunwoody Patsy
JonBenet Ramsey ////// The Family

True Crime Garage

1:22:12 hr | 1 year ago

JonBenet Ramsey ////// The Family

"The park has network is rereleasing forty. Five classic episodes from their critically acclaimed series. Remarkable lives tragic deaths as part of a new limited series. Famous fates. Famous face will tell amazing. Stories of some of history's most influential lives and shocking deaths from Maryland. Row and Harry Houdini to Vincent Van Gogh L. Capone. These episodes are all free and only available on spotify go to spotify dot com slash famous fates and follow. Now Jon Benet Ramsey. She was trained the Little Miss Colorado victim the Jon Benet Ramsey unknown intruder Robin Ramsay still not interview the parent blue from that. I The more responsible in two thousand and six former schoolteacher John. Mark Karr confessed blue to the nineteen ninety-six strangulation of Jon. Banana and graphic sexual detail on August seventeenth two thousand and six Thailand authorities arrested John Mark Car a forty two two year old American teacher. He'd been living in Thailand on the Lam after facing child pornography charges in the US car had been e mailing mailing a Colorado professor and was making incriminating statements about his involvement in Jonbenet's death. The Boulder District Attorney's office wanted to charge him with murder. He was extradited back to the United States and brought to Boulder Colorado to be arraigned for her murder. This this from August twentieth two thousand and six from CNN dot com a video titled in Cars Own Words. A reporter ask I am with the Associated Press. Can you give us a brief statement car. Replies I I love Jon Benet and she died accidentally reporter reporter ask are you an innocent man. Car Says No what happened car replies. Her death was an accident so you were in the basement. Mint car says yes the reporter asked. Can you tell us about your connection to the Ramsey family. Car Says No. He cannot comment on that. How did you you or how did you get into the basement again? Car Says No comment on that reporter and how how do you feel now. How have you? I've been treated car. Says I've been treated okay. Asked how long had you known Jon Benet and again he says. I have no comment on that. Here's some other statements made by car car. Says I was with Jon Benet when she died now. This is not technically a confession but but more of an admission he did not say I killed Jon Benet just I was with Jon Benet when she died another one of cars interesting statements mints and this of course is in regards to Jon Benet. He says it's very important for me that everyone knows that I love her very much that her death was unintentional intentional that it was an accident then the September four two thousand six issue of people magazine claims they have have an exclusive jailhouse interview with John. Mark car turns out. This was not the case. In Fact People magazine interviewed the Thailand authorities authorities. Who told them what car said they say? That car said the Ramseys feel their daughter was brutally murdered and she wasn't. It looks like that but she wasn't. I want them to hear the truth. I need closure and her family needs closure. All of us have gone through enough pain then. The Boulder District Attorney announced that they were dropping the charges against John Maher car and the Jon Benet Ramsey murder. They say it turns out. DNA on the body at the scene did not match that of course DNA. Secondly a great defense is always always a good alibi. It has been reported that the police never interviewed cars family prior to his arrest and extradition to the United States. Most people know where they were during the Christmas season cars family has always said and always maintain their statements. That car was with with them when Jon Benet was killed but car says the DNA might not match. But you can't trust the test. Yeah that's possible and we can into the DNA later not matching but it seems like he's just seeking out attention and that he's a line ship princess. Well he's got a face for camera a face for radio yes he had no. I'm joking I mean he's he's not. He's struggling fogli right. He's less pleasant to look at any is to listen to on July ninth. I want to get into this real quick here. Because it's going to translate a into further discussion. That get into on July ninth two thousand eight. Mary lacy the Boulder District Attorney announce it. Recently he developed touch DNA. Technology had cleared all members of jonbenet. Ramsey's family of her slaying. DNA from an unknown male hale was found on two articles of clothing. Jon benet person many have argued and I believe very rightfully so why this DNA evidence clears the family if it in fact should even clear the family at all being John Patsy and Burke this DNA evidence only proves two things that An unknown male was possibly present at the crime scene. We do not know where the DNA came from and that the DNA does does not belong to the Ramsey family as statement analysis dot Com. Put it this. Evidence does not exonerate the RAMSEYS. It does not prove they you were not present or were not involved or do not know who killed Jon Benet regardless of all of that the DNA found on Jon Benet they did not match cars DNA and the murder charges were in fact dropped he was sent to California to face child pornography charges on stay on this DNA for just a little bit longer because one of the reasons why they believe that this DNA shouldn't be tested against anybody that comes forward or any suspect is that they don't know if it's a mixture of DNA it they go well. It's a single male. That's that's what they believe. It is but even in the test results it says it could be two to three males like a combination not meaning that there's even two or three people involved in her murder just that this. DNA is a combination of could be combination of multiple will people. Therefore you'll never get a match when you're comparing multiple people's DNA to one person right and I mean it's interesting that that we have the DNA A and it was found on two articles of clothing on her that were on her person as she lay there and the wine cellar which is of interest. I don't don't think it should be ignored. I think and I'm going off of expert opinion as well and just really agreeing with them. Where several Oh? Experts have stated that they don't find this type of DNA evidence to be of any value when it comes to eliminating a suspect or or or trying to convict a suspect right that it's simply for now until we can prove otherwise it's simply for now. DNA that we can't identify by the is believed to come from a man doesn't seem to match any of the ramseys but we don't know how it got there or how long it was was there and it's hard for me to believe that was such a vicious attack there would be no. DNA laughed at the scene. At all. But again I think everybody involved in this case or anybody that has researched this case can start off with the idea that the crime scene is heavily contaminated terminated and. I actually don't WanNA fault. I don't WanNA fought law enforcement too much for that because I do believe they went into this situation going. It's it's a kidnapping and yes. They shoulda done his stop everything and go. Let's make sure that this is actually kidnapping and there's no child in this house but but they miss that step and that caused a blunder of other things to go wrong because of the date happened on. I think it's it's reasonable to see why they miss that step. I I somewhat agree with you. I but I disagree in a sense that I don't think that anybody in the public it should feel any less safe on December twenty six than they would any other time of year any other date. I agree it's on the calendar and you're right in a way that because it's been by Boulder Colorado's own detectives and police that state. This couldn't have happened on the worst day. This is the day that it's tough for us to get a full staff to get the most people working it's just it's a bad day scheduling wise no right. It's a great day to commit a murder by but what I mean by that is that maybe these officers would miss a step one because it's right after holiday but but to because they just spent time with their friends and family and so when you hear a we have a kidnapping it like. I said it could just be as simple as war. We're going to believe the parents right away when maybe they want. If it was three weeks later yeah I also I think that my wishes truly are the Boulder Police Department that they would have treated as a kidnapping as soon as they were notified of kidnapping and and that does not appear to have taken place to me right. Let's talk about Linda Hoffman. Pugh she worked for the Ramsey. She was their housekeeper. This is one thing that separates her from many of the other people that we've already discussed. She had a key to the home. She had a key to the Ramsey's house her. Her husband Mervyn worked with Linda and for the Ramseys on a few occasions on the evening of twelve twenty seven nineteen ninety-six. This is is the day after all of the the mess that we just kind of touched. Upon at the Ramsey home in the investigation police showed up at the pews home home and they wanted her to write the number one hundred eighteen thousand dollars on a piece of paper and reportedly took her fingerprints in several strands of her hair at that time as well. Linda confirmed the polices suspicions of job. Possibly having a bed wedding problem problem. There are several publications. That say Linda Accuses Patsy Ramsey of killing Jon Benet and it appears that she he did. I believe this may just have been in retaliation especially after learning that the ramseys put Linda and her husband on a list of people they would consider to be suspects and then some extended family pointed to them as well. The extended Ramsey family member told police Linda. Linda had asked Patsy for alone many publications out there stated that the ramseys refused to help her out and Linda's family. I was struggling and desperately needed the money. This sounds very ominous and certainly presents a cloud of suspicion. But let's clear a bunch of things up here. Linda did in fact ask Patsy for loan. The loan amount was for two thousand dollars and Patsy and John they. They agreed to help her out. They gave her the money and the agreement was that they would take two hundred dollars out of each of her paychecks until the loan was was paid back. Now that makes sense also. It wasn't like Linda was super desperate for money. Yes her and her husband struggled at times but she had a good job working for the ramseys and Mervyn was even able to pick up some work because of her job as well. The loan was for car repairs and dental work. Mark these both being emergency situations that can be expensive that spring up without notice. We have all experienced this right. Let's keep in mine too even more so than the ramseys. The police were considering everyone with a key to the home to be a suspect at that time in the investigation to see some of the report set speculate that there was as many as twenty keys. Not Not accounted for. I've seen multiple numbers reported over the years. One thing that is pointed out by the detectives that were working. The case was the first started off investigating the murder order soon as they knew it was a murder they wanted to know who had keys and how many were out there. And that number that was provided to them by the RAMSEYS was much much different than what their investigation would lead them to to find. Now Linda was someone who had a key to the home as we stated and regardless of what some of these publications say that are out there Linda when I questioned by police never suggested that Patsy or John were are guilty of anything other than loving their children she even stated that she worried about the beautiful little girl. Meaning Jon Benet who was allowed to ride her a bike unsupervised and said someone must have seen her and attempted to take the little girl this statement obviously pointing toward an unknown intruder rather than the Ramseys Mervyn however told police that the few times he was in the home he found the home to be very difficult to navigate. Saying if you just turned around you'd get lost this statement pointing toward an insider if it wasn't intruder. Of course Hoffman. PUGH does not even fit the profile. The police were working with which was white male former convict twenty five to thirty years. Old Hoffman Pugh was fifty seven at the time I'm and her husband was about the same age years later. She did testify in front of a grand jury for a total of eight hours including a statement against Patsy Azzi that read quote. I think she had multiple personalities should be in a good mood and then should be cranky. She got into arguments with Jon. Benet the Linda Hoffman. PUGH theory as it goes says the housekeeper led a trusting job down into the basement that night and attempt to who trick her employers into leaving money for her ransom. It is possible that she could have seen John. Ramsey's pay stub for one hundred. Eighteen thousand thousand dollars as a bonus familiar with both the home and the family. Schedule Hoffman. Pugh makes a convenient suspect and without a solid alibi. She says she was asleep in bed while her husband allegedly slept on the couch. She has however never been formally accused of this crime. I'm in there's really no evidence pointing to her just speculation by mainly a lot of coming from patsies mother and we've spent the last asked episode and portion of this episode discussing some of the people we believe should be in the conversation of suspects. There there nobody in there that we are specifically Lee. Sang should be a suspect. Just when you WANNA look at people that you might want to look into with the investigation these would be people that the captain and I would take a look at. There are a few people that we haven't discussed yet. And that would be some true insiders. In this case. The three Ramsey family members numbers that were inside the home. Obviously we cannot discuss every person that's ever been thought to be a suspect by whomever out there down. I mean we we thought about after the second episode discon- screw it was two hundred episodes on this case but then we decided against that. Well just the suspects alone would be extremely exhausting one to report in to to listen to as well because the Ramseys John and patsy supply boulder police with a list of suspects. The list they gave to police now. It grew as the investigation went on right but the latest report that I heard was that that number was at one hundred and sixty eight the ramseys gave the police department one hundred and sixty eight people to look at and obviously their names were not included on this list. So right but if your child was murdered and you weren't involved at some point you would start naming everybody you knew just to have them look at anybody. Because they're not at at this point you don't know who they've looked at what leads the have Where they're going? How close they are so? At some point year you start becoming desperate `esprit I get that and that's that just like everything else in this case is where you can take one bit of information and you could use it to argue four. Aw or against the RAMSEYS. Yeah so where every one of us would expect innocent people to supply a very lengthy list in a desperation to find justice for their daughter. The flip side of that is the suspicion of going. Well they they have something to hide. So they're providing police with this very extensive list giving them all these errands chores to do to really steer the direction direction of the investigation away from themselves to further compound that a bit. We do have statements by Patsy Ramsey who who says at some point in the investigation. She was suspicious of Saying that she believed the killer could have been Colorado University student. Well that adds several thousands more people to the list of suspects so it's really one of those tricky things. The other thing that I found interesting about this and this this is actually a real. I think this is a very possibly legit answer. We do know that the ramseys did provide a suspect list. That's not in question question. That absolutely happened. What I believe is in question is the number of people that the ramseys put on that list brave because that number has been reported all all over the shop? It's a pretty high number. I'll say that but I found this statement to be. It's really a response that John Ramsey had uh it either shows his level of intelligence or his level of innocence or possibly his level of. He thinks he might be set up being wrongfully accused of something and it was this. One of his friends contacted him. Their conversation was Ramsey Ramsey. Wanted to know. Why did you say you said some things about me? That I didn't really like right. And his his friend or acquaintance Dayton's I don't know that the strength of their relationship and the statements themselves they they weren't even really a big deal in my opinion but the friend says to John. Well I only said that stuff because or I only said that you should be a suspect because police came to me and told me that you told them that I should be suspect. Right and John Ramsey's response to that was look. I didn't say you should be a suspect. They're just telling you and telling everybody nobody else out there in our our circle of friends and Co workers that we have said everybody else's a suspect they're trying trying to stir. The Pot is what John Ramsey's basically saying they're trying to stir the pot so that you will give them stuff about us you will give them dirt on us so it's it's really one of those really difficult things to kind of sift through. Who is right? Who is wrong and what this particular thing could mean? I in the beginning of this investigation thought that that number one hundred sixty eight people named as suspects by the Ramsey was a crazy number and it pointed to something that they might be trying to hide right as I go through it. I questioned that action less. And less and less one thing we do need to talk about two which added suspicion in the public's eye to the RAMSEYS and I believe at it suspicion in the eyes of law enforcement As well working the case is what has always been referred to as the RAMSEYS hiding behind a wall of lawyers and some people well even gone as far to call this wall of Lawyers Team Ramsey. The one of the attorneys hired by the RAMSEYS was was. This is from an old case. And it's from a representation to a person named Lee Lindsay. Her husband was shot to death inside their home l. e. Lindsey was found innocent. John Hired that same defense attorney to represent him. It's an interesting strategy again. It's just another one of those things that you could argue. Either side this points to him having something to hide this points to him just wanting good representation tation so he doesn't get wrongfully accused. John and Patsy had different attorneys and Burke had his own attorney as well now how we should point out there all paid for by John Ramsey. But they're all receiving separate representation. Some people point to that as being very strange something very weird I really to me captain my opinion on that I could go either way on it I I I would. I would really want somebody with a strong opinion on it to to offer up their opinion to me as to why I should feel one way or the other about it. I don't really think thirty points to anything. I think again initially appointed to me that well. If let's pretend I'm the husband and and there's it made me Patsy when you're not involved in this okay. If I'm the husband in a situation where my my child has been killed in. The police are now looking looking at me and my wife as potential suspects. which you know? They're going to what if I'm in a situation where I know I'm innocent assent but I don't fully know if my spouse is innocent right well then it would make very much sense if I hired an attorney for me and if if I had if I were a man of money I would probably hire one for her as well but we would be represented by two different people because my interest I in her interest in this investigation are not the same and therefore we need different representation. That'd be awesome if your man of money because we could turn on the heat and and the garage now the flip side of that is what. If I know that I'm innocent and I know my wife to be innocent as well. I know that a very very common police tactic and detective tactic would be for them to separate us in question us at the same time in separate areas in separate locations locations thus making it impossible for the attorney representing both of us to physically represent both of us during that situation. Elation right you see how this pendulum swings back and forth. It's it's aggravating. It's interesting it's truly a fascinating case case but with a lot with a lot of unanswered questions right but I view it from the standpoint of what John Ramsey says the the day of the crime he talks to police officers the day of the crime they have burke talk to investigator without anybody present they also send burke to their friends house where he could say God knows what if if he was responsible for this or if he knew what happened but John Ramsey says is that they're willing to cooperate they had some suspicion from their friends. Saying you probably get a lawyer to help you through all this but when when the police would not give back her body so they can have the burial. That's when John said that was the long drawn in the sand and you don't WanNa to give our dead child back so we can bury her and so you have a sit down sit down conversation with both him and Patsy and I think at that point he realized This was kind of war and I think he was. I don't even think it was whether it was right or wrong long. I think it was just like I think he felt that it was very disrespectful. And from then on I'm not gonNA play by your rules. The holiday shopping season here and this year. Your gift can inspire fire. Next year's good habits with quip quip is something that sure to put a smile on. Everyone's face because it's dental care. People actually want to use every day. Eh Quips. Electric toothbrush refillable floss in. toothpastes are all intentionally designed to make good habits simple. The electric toothbrush has sensitive. Sonic vibrations in the timer with thirty second pulses to guide. Your routine and equip floss dispenser has pre marked strings to always use the right amount. Plus quip delivers brush. Heads floss and toothpaste refills every three months. So your new good habits can last all year. That's why quip is a perfect gift. Join over three million happy customers and check everyone off your gift list right now with quip. I love my quick brush. Josh Equality Toothbrush. I love the timer because I get a great clean a deep clean and that even clean which my dentist said even clean is very important and so not only am I happy but my dentist is happy as well. Just go to get quip dot com slash garage is save on gift sets and to get your first refill free with a refill plan that. You're I refill. FREE APP GET QUIP DOT com slash garage that's Q.. Ip Dot com slash garage get quip quipped dot com slash garage when it comes to me quality matters but there's more to it than texture and taste every month butcher box ship. Secure rated selection of high-quality meets right to your home. I'll meets a free of antibiotics and added hormones packed fresh ship frozen and vacuum field. So they stay that way with options like one hundred percent grass fed and finished beef free range organic chicken heritage pork. Wild Cod brought Alaskan salmon and sugar nightshirt Free Bacon available for just six dollars a meal butcher boxes. The most affordable and convenient way to get healthy humanely raised me. They even have free shipping within the continental us. I love butcher box. It is my thing. I've jokingly said it's my hobby you can take my home. Take my car. Do Not Take my butcher box subscription away from me I cooked last week Captain Bacon Pork chops rib eye steaks. They got the best rabbi steaks I've ever had. I think they have the Best Bacon I've ever had. I liked to do a little steak with a piece of salmon as well a little surf and turf crispy Colonel Style right now. You get two pounds of ground beef and two packs of Bacon absolutely free plus twenty dollars off your first box. Just go to butcher box dot com slash garage and use Promo Code Garage at checkout. That's butcher box dot com slash garage. Use Promo Code Garage at checkout. Tis the season to get cozy. Or maybe you're hosting holiday hangs either way your furniture should suit your needs while filling uniquely you. That's Oh that's where joy bird comes in. I have two chairs from joy bird at my home and they are in my TV room. It's my favorite room to relax. And because of my joy burch chairs chairs not only. Are they super comfortable. They look fantastic. And they're super durable. The shipping was easy the ordering was easy and the thing. I love the most unlike other furniture purchases. I've made when these chairs arrived I had nothing to do. No assembly required ready to go looking looking great right Alabama six with over fifty fabric and leather options three shades of wood and over two hundred and fifty unique soula wets do the math joy. Birds got a lot to choose from. The days of settling are over with their hundreds of customizable pieces. If you can dream it joy bird can build it. They even offer a range of kid kid and pet friendly upholstery options. Joy Birds Free personal design. Consultants can help you go from inspiration to creation. It's piece is made made with the ultimate care and precision. All Joy. Bird handcrafted pieces come with a limited lifetime warranty check out their website. You're going to be very glad that you did create furniture that matches your own fearless style at joy bird dot com slash garage. See how joy bird can help. Make your dream space a reality today at joy dot com slash garage could enjoy bird dot com slash garage and receive exclusive offer for twenty five percent off your first order by using Promo Komo Code Garage. All right cheers cheers captain this week. We are sipping on a little Christmas Ale by the good people at Great Lakes Brewing Company Garage Grade Five bottlecaps pick up some Christmas Ale for yourself for your family for this year's festivities are captain. We're kind of the point now where we're really only left with about three people left to discuss And these would be the complete total insiders and this whole entire case. The three Ramsey family only members that were inside the home the night that Jon Benet was killed. We mentioned yesterday the experts or several people that stated that they believe I believe in an intruder theory is the best theory for this case regarding the insider theory we have. CBS Robert Ressler. Great MMA query. Dr Cyril Wecht and Steve Thomas to retired F. B. I.. Agents that is the flip side of the coin of John. Douglas Bliss I guess and we have Cyril Wecht who is an expert in forensics as well as Steve Thomas who would be the flip side of the coin. Four four Lou Smit loose-knit was brought in to work this investigation for the prosecutors for the team of prosecutors Steve Steve. Thomas was a member of the Boulder Police Department and was a detective at the time. And he was one of the lead investigators on the Ramsey investigation. Gatien the strange thing being here is that these two investigators worked on the same team at the same time of the same investigation and had had to completely different opinions on what happened. What took place who is responsible for the murder and both of them believe? I believe so strongly in their theory that the evidence that day could see backed up what they suspected so much so that both of them eventually actually resigned from working the case at all. And that's pretty strong commitment to your theory. Yeah one hundred percent. We have stated that some people were eliminated whatever words you want to use in regards to very things that are very specific like handwriting possibly DNA EH alibis alibis. The only true people that in my that I'm willing to go along with an agree with that have been officially cleared in this case were cleared very early on in the investigation and they're only four of them and that would would be John Andrew and Melinda Ramsey John's two older children right as well as fleet and Priscilla White. Those four have been officially cleared and I agree with all four of those statements. This being basically that it was proven to be physically impossible for any of these four people to be involved because they have an ironclad alibi. The two older children were not even in the state of of Colorado. They would need to either own a private jet or a time machine to teleport. Yeah have possibly been able to commit this crime and it appears the same way with fleet and Priscilla white as well based off of they had a bunch of guest at their home overnight and there's multiple people stating that until the wee hours of the morning. They're both accounted for. It's not like one of these statements. Like oh we went to bed at eight o'clock at night and get up and do anything till the next morning they were up up hanging out with these people and until until the wee hours of the more they were pulling what I call it. crispy colonel so this leaves us with three of the more popular suspects in this case and you know I remember when I was a child in this case was in the news that there were people screaming screaming at the top of their lungs. The parents did at the parents did it. And then years later a popular theory came out that pay the brother. Did it either way for somebody in the home to have killed. Jon Benet without question there has to be a cover up and then you have to go to the extent of how many people people do you believe. Were to be involved in that cover up and why the need for the cover up in the first place. John Ramsey was a popular suspect early. Early on in this would be based off of the salacious photos. That came out of this young six year old blonde in these beauty pageants wearing clothing and outfits that people didn't think were appropriate and you carry that out a little further people wondered well. Could she have been sexually abused. was there abuse going on in inside the home and could John Ramsey be guilty of such abuse. The other thought here is we have have patsy Ramsey. The patsy Ramsey theory to me is is. I think I was GONNA say interesting but I don't don't think that's the right word I think it's complicated is is the better word and I say that because in regards to patsy having killed Jon Benet and and then covered it up it seems like there could be many motivating factors for patsy right. Where would John? It seems pretty cut cut and dried that. It's just I. The he must have been abusing her sexually and it led to this and then it was covered up now. One seems like we have evidence accordance at points against the idea that she was abused long-term and the the where the place. Where this theory then splits is you could go? Okay okay. Well did. Patsy helped him cover covered up or was she aware of other things going on or not right with the patsy theory. It's it's it's a number of things it could be that Jon Benet the bed and there was an attack and impulsive attack. That took place and then it was covered up later or she was in some weird way jealous that her daughter is being molested by her husband and and flew into some kind of rage. or It's possible that she was molesting her daughter herself she was molesting the daughter. One interesting theory too is is that John's molesting the daughter in in some type of was meant to be a heroic act to come in and attack this man attack her husband. Who's violating her daughter? The in some freak accident. She accidentally struck Jon Benet in the head instead instead and then they worked together to cover it up. The theories are as bizarre as you can imagine and then there's others that make some sense now mind you you need the evidence to back them up yes and this is where my even get more complex but I I believe based on the autopsy that it shows that Jon Benet was not being molested for years so so to me that rules out patsy molesting Jon Benet or John Molesting Jon Benet I also would find it very strange Ought to have a situation where we have molest station of a child of your own child and a house that there is no pornography goofy at all found or any claims at all by any friends they had a lot of close friends. No claims whatsoever a about child abuse so to me I you can take that off the table. I certainly don't lean that way that that was the situation that that was what was going on long term and backed that up by saying look this at this. John was not a first time father. Okay he other children that have nothing but good things to say about him. Usually with an offender that would would re-offend on the same victim over and over again. It's not uncommon that they just victimized one child right but it's more common did they victimize more than one of the children so I don't lean that way and it also appears that out of the. This was a young girl it was very well cared for in the sense that she had twenty seven. Doctors visits in the course of three years. Now some people call that into suspicion. I'm fine with that. It's it's suspicious to me too but what's not suspicious is a lot of times when there is some form of physical abuse or sexual abuse. You're not running to the doctor for every little thing that comes up because sometimes the doctor can detect these things or can question marks on a child this things with with Jon Benet and in her body and and the examines the examinations of her body and these doctor visits i. I don't think that we can one hundred percent rule out the possibility of some type of sexual abuse. It just doesn't seem like like anybody people that have first hand knowledge of all these situations and of Jon Benet. It doesn't seem that anybody leans that direction right. The these are things that could be explained away by sexual abuse but also could be explained away. A million other ways in have been irritations due to two wedding the bed. wetting yourself irritations to bubble bath any number of different things going on here. So yeah. I'm with you captain. Can I don't see a situation where we have long term sexual abuse. Now that doesn't mean that sexual abuse cannot be the motivating factor for what happened here. It very well could be that. This was the very first time that this ever took place and it went. It ended in murder right. I think if you I believe that then you have to believe the evidence of the autopsy and that means that there would have been something that happened on the twenty third so again like you said it's new developing Sexual molestation but by apparent I just I just don't see you there. I think there's such a lack of evidence of that I think makes maybe a little more sense with the idea of that. This bed-wetting became an issue. And the person that's dealing with it constantly is patsy and so something happened there but again it. It's strange to me. It's just it's this is so complicated because you have to start picking what happened. I and I don't believe a hit or the fracture of the skull all happened. I so if that did happen I and somebody could prove to me that happened. I then I'd go. Well Yeah Patsy got a a little upset in and pushed her. She hit her head or she accidentally hit hit. Jon Benet on top of the head was something and then use this this gratin to cover it up but I just don't see that to be the case in regards can you. Can you clear up what you mean gene by something occurring on the twenty third while because the 'cause they examined her claims that the day that she was murdered murdered. There's evidence that there's digital molest station and that but there's also evidence that it would happen. And and when we use the word chronic he was stating that it probably happened on the twenty second or the twenty third so there was evidence of some kind of molestation on the day she was murdered and then on the twenty second and the twenty third so meaning if it was somebody somebody on the inside it could have been the second time that such an act took place. Yeah I'm just. I'm taking that off the table because to me it doesn't there's no no evidence that points and I just. There's no evidence that points that John Ramsey was doing that. There's no evidence that points that Patsy Patsy Ramsey was doing that. No I agree with you too. I'm not willing to take it off the table because it sounds like the medical examiner says that something took place place right and look. She's in the company of her family more than anybody else. She's a six year old child so I won't take off off the table when they're still they're still reason to leave it on the table. I think the the difficulty with this case as you are the road you were starting to go down. There is one. It's IT'S A. It's a general misconception. In this case that the belief that she was struck on the head and then strangled with this Gujarat and the whole strangulation of the garage was an the act to cover up an accidental hit to the head of strike to the head. Which of course does anybody could make a case for that to have been patsy Azzi Burke? John What have you the problem being is it seems that all the experts seem to agree. Then the strangulation came first in the strike on the head occurred either at the same time or shortly after so what that says to me. Is that the use of this Iraq of this strangulation of whatever was happening before Jon Albany was struck on the head. You it can't be a cover up in the sense that the garage was not used as a cover. The strangulation was not used as a cover. Ever up this occurred before the strike on the head right and there's multiple things to point us to this one. She has defensive offensive wounds. meaning that Jon Benet when she was being strangled with this garage she tried to pull off her neck and there's indents dance all over her neck fingernail and dents to show that she was conscious when she's being choked and she tried to stop it if she was hit on the head that blow to the head that caused that massive fracture would a- left her probably brain dead. She would had severe brain swelling. She would had severe brain bleed so she wouldn't be able to be conscious to stop this attack now. Is it possible that she was strangled for awhile. Hit hit on the head and then strangled again. That's very possible but this idea that choose hit on the head I is just it makes zero sense and I always believed the CBS reports. When I watched the first? CBS documentary. I went there. You go that that seems like it makes a Lotta sense and you have these paid and Vesa gators and these forensic experts sit in on this board Goin'. Yeah this probably what happened or something to that. This effect act. You have to believe again. The idea that Jon benet comes up and take some pineapple away from her brother and then he turns around and hits her on the head with some kind of object. Maybe the flashlight that's what they said in the CBS report. I think you said you don't think nine year old would be strong enough to do that. Blow I lean towards your expertise on that. But it's also you can't see the fracture. You can see the fracture after the autopsy debts. Because to put it bluntly they removed the skin right. You can't there will be no Lhasa ration- There was no open. Head wound right. And she's not bleeding leading all over the place. The Medical Examiner the pathologist Dr Meyers. He was unaware of the blow to the head until till. Oh well into the examination of the body right going off of site scene of what he sees at the at the crime scene and what he sees on the the body of the victim. He's immediately going all. This was strangulation. Pretty obvious the rope still around her neck. Sorry right but it wasn't wasn't until further examination. Did he discover this strike to the head. And I'm look there have been experts out there again and I'm no expert but your expert in the garage. There have been experts out there that said yes. Nine year old could do could carry out this type of violent strike to the head of a small child and caused this amount of damage. I'm sorry man I've seen the the the pictures and unfortunately had to stare at them long enough. I refused to believe that I simply it look look at the regular. Let's go down this road for a second breads less to say he was able to do that. Pullout and less to say that you can say patsy saul him hit her or didn't see Burke hitter at some point. She comes a pawn her lifeless body. But guess what she still breathing. She is still breathing. So so maybe some time passes but you're going to tell me this mother that loves her daughter is just going to call the ambulance because guess what we have evidence of what happens. When Burke hits his sister in the in the face with a golf club he gets in trouble double they take her to the emergency room? You think she comes upon her lifeless child's body. Guess what the child is breathing breathing. So you you want to tell me that she's not GonNa just call nine one one and say hey we we need help. We need ambulance. It's because she would have no clue. He is not a medical examiner. She's not a doctor she's not a nurse. She has no clue. I would assume that most people most adults came across a six-year-old that was unconscious and there was no. Oh evidence of her wear shoes hit that they wanted to call nine one one to try to save their daughter's life so so people want you to think that she just automatically assume that she was dead decided to make garage and start a choking her violently. Not like haphazardly violently and chokers so much that that rope moves places but then somehow during all this John neagh comes to and then defends the choking gene and wants. Her child comes to she goes all. Well it's too late for you or just covering this up for Burke we gotTa Save Burke and then she keen continues to choke and then we've got a stage some molestation but again the evidence points that not only did it happened that day but it probably happened a couple of days before so did you stage that too and then we gotta start staging all these other things now. We got it right this ransom note. It just doesn't make a lot of sense. were an regardless if it makes sense or not. The science doesn't back any of that up with the science backs up is that she was strangled and then struck in the head in that exact order brain and what what backs that up is. The the what the science shows is a slowing of the blood moving to the brain at that time right. That's one piece of evidence. meaning that she was either in the act of dying when she was struck on the head or ver- you know she's in the act of dying very close to death right. Something is causing blood to be slowed or stop going to the brain and then she struck in the head. What stopped that was the strangulation that was going on with the garage them at the time that she was struck on the head? So you're not using the garage to cover up being struck in the head. You're not using sexual. Oh abuse to cover up the strike to the head. What you have here is a situation where unfortunately we have sexual assault and a very vicious sexual act of cutting off the air to the two two six year olds was six year old and then during the commission of doing all that there is a strike to the head whether the offenders struck her on the head because he believed she was dead and wanted to make sure her or wanted to strike on the head to cover up and confuse what was going on at the scene? We can't say we can't say that but we can say based off of the science. Is that the act of strangulation was taking place before the strike to the head occurred so just to try to work somebody off of our list. If you're going to believe that burke possibly did this then you have to reconcile the fact that she was being choked before for being struck on the head you have to take a step further and say well he was. He built this fancy garage and he was choking her and then he's Snyder and look it makes for a good story but I don't see the evidence to suggest that that's what in fact occurred what I do see. Evidence of is a the the the problem with the people in the house is we have John who could be guilty. We have patsy. Who could be guilty and then we could have all three that were somehow in on it together? One thing that I believe you can absolutely cross off your list and take off the table is that burke did all of this by himself right. Take that one off off. Because he's nine years old. He didn't write that letter. He didn't write that ransom letter. He didn't construct that Gherat. I don't know why a nine year old would be into the type of sexual assault that I believe to be taking place in that basement or how they would even know about that at. Aw and then you would have to convince me that. He strong enough to inflict that severe severe blow to the head and Hill says. Write the note via himself right so and yeah and he has to tie the sophisticated knots. I don't see see that being a possibility and again maybe a heavy enough object. Maybe you can create the fracture. I'd be more interested to see if a nine year old could inflict the damage around the neck with a great. Because you'd have to be pulling pretty pretty hard so I just don't see it. Here's my thing though is I've been thinking about this a lot. Why did I watch the CBS report? And and why did I believe that. And some of it is because they commit certain pieces of evidence which come on shame on you right. You have some Agenda you have some point trying to make so you just leave out all the pieces of evidence so therefore your point makes the most sense but I started thinking what will why does you know looking cannot the evidence that we've done for the last few months. Why did America why it seems? Like almost all of America's fold by this but I think it's because it's easier. It's easier to think that this was an accident it's easier to think think six-year-olds accidentally hit on the head by her brother. The parents did not know what to do. They were scared that grant lose their son and and then they did these horrible things but on some level on a very small percentage we all can just justify their actions. It's because they didn't want to lose their son because maybe there was something wrong with their son. We've only seen one interview you with them. Which is very odd interview as he has grown up? I think that those are nervous reactions when he talks to Dr Phil Bill. But I think when you see him as a child. There's some strangeness in those interviews to but look it's a nine year old kid did being interrogated or being questioned after. His little sister was murdered. But I think it's easier to come to that conclusion. It's easier to think that then to think somebody took the time to make a device to put around a six year olds neck and to pull it so tight that her brain was losing blood and oxygen and was either molesting her or molesting themselves why they choke the life founded this little girl and they either got so excited how they decide to smash her on the head splitting splitting her skull pretty much in half or guy of theorized that maybe after she was dead debt debt when they were trying to carry her out on some level they ended up dropping her and then they panicked and they left. But I think it's you see what I'm saying where I feel. It's almost it's harder to imagine the latter it's also very difficult cult. Imagine that the parents did this. It's almost easier then in a sense to that an intruder should be guilty of such a terrible act in such a terrible attack on a child. Yeah this is a very unpopular opinion. But I I lean toward the intruder theory as one that I feel to be more likely. I'm not willing to roll other possibilities. Ladies out why again with the with the damage done the physical damage done to the victim. What I see here ear is something that is beyond probably the capabilities of the ramseys? And I know that it. It happens all the time in America and other countries as well Brian where apparent does something horrible unspeakable acts next to their own child. I understand it I get it but at the end of the day when I can't make what I believe to be an educated aided decision because the evidence is so messy then I have to go with my gut and what my gut tells me. Is that from. The pictures is that I've seen of the damage done. I feel like this this had to be an intruder and I will take a step further by stating the garage itself the construction of the garage. The construction of those knots that too who appears to me to point toward a certain level of sophistication meaning somebody that has fashioned one of these devices before right and if the ramseys are simply trying to cover something up. They've had they've never had a reason to construct one before. Well all the items it made. The garage made the ransom letter. All everything came from inside the House Nick. Well that's not. In fact entirely true there were items inside the home that cannot be ruled out as having caused the damage that was made by the blow to the head right but we don't have any proof that there was an item edem inside the home that did in fact make that wound the blonde plus made dense strike to the head right. Plus you got a scene. That's very contaminated plus on top of that. Just look at the pictures we're talking about to me extremely messy house which I would think would make investigating crime scene way harder. So how does this all workout. If in fact it was an intruder in my mind this is how it plays out again again. I'm not willing to say this is one hundred percent. I'm not willing to now say that there are other possibilities. This is at the end of the day. I put fifty one percent of my eggs in this basket. If this is how the intruder theory goes down. This is how it works and makes sense for me that she was targeted. Somebody broke into the home with the intention of abducting this child. For the purpose of sexual assault. They may have broke into the home before or after the family came home. I don't know it seems to point to me. More likely that they may have entered the home while the Ramseys were gone. I during this time they brought with them a letter. The day copied using stuff that they found in the home using the felt pen. We know that occurred using patsies. No Pat we know. Oh that occurred in writing it why they have clubs on so we don't leave any DNA or fingerprints. The difficulty with the letter itself is we have barked in right it. According to the analyst John Reid it and then they put patsy at the low end of the spectrum for possibly riding it. I know I'm reminding myself that we said earlier. It would be responsible to eliminate any based off of handwriting analysis. The thing here though captain is what would be the purpose of ransom letter. I also stated and I believe you back me up on this that the letter itself is a farce. What I meant by that is that there was no? There was never any belief by the author of that letter or desire to actually collect any money from the family right. The letter itself was simply a giant speed speed-bump to persuade the family not to contact the police and give this sick individual more time with the victim victim. Nick that never happens why would why would they add the added risk of of putting themselves out there like that just to buy some more time. Well I can point to one situation where in fact did happen. Amy Mahalick was abducted from the Shopping Plaza Waza and allowed to call her mother at work after being in the presence of the abductor simply glee for the reason of delaying the mother being aware that there was something wrong and guess what if the ramseys would have followed. The instructions is on that ransom letter. They wouldn't have contacted the police but they did. One thing that I find weird about the note and we never discussed discuss this The other day here captain but one thing that I found extremely strange with inside the no itself was how the author author speaks and absolutes all the way up to one point and then leaves the window open for a little bit of possibility a little bit of opportunity to foil the abductors plan where the author says. If you do this she dies if you do this she dies. If if you don't cooperate with us you run the risk of her being beheaded and then we will deny you her body all these absolutes. She dies beheaded denied. The the body right but then later is states. If you try to outsmart us you stand a ninety nine percent chance of killing killing your daughter if you follow our instructions you stand one hundred percent chance of getting your daughter back again in absolute but then that ninety nine percent i. That's what's been keeping me up at night. Why would the author leave that? One percentage chance the the ramseys could foil the plan and I think that's because the author really wanted them to believe that the author was in control and if they follow their instructions not only would they get their daughter back but at the very least if they didn't contact the police they were still one percent percent chance that the ramseys could outsmart the attacker. I think what occurred really man was. The note was constructed to buy more time. I'm who knows how long this individual intended to keep riber right but he believed the note was authentic in a sense that the author wanted wanted the Ramseys to believe it but it happened before he actually yes because if he killed Jon Benet he would've never wrote the note to begin with bright. The note gets a ransom note gets the FBI involved. Which I think is another thing which not? Everybody knows that. But it's like if the family was trying to cover up a murder and you then put a ransom note into play now you have FBI involved. And I wish that be. I was involved from beginning because if they would have been. I think this case would be solved by now. Yeah if they wouldn't have located her body in the basement that quickly if that would have gone twenty four hours the FBI would have taken over this case in this investigation regardless of finding her body later. The interesting thing here though captain I think where this whole thing gets messy. It's a complicated case because there are all these things that you have have to explain and you have to explain them and they're not easily explained away because there are things that point to the letter being constructed not only in the home. I'm but Bai's maybe somebody that lived there. Nothing is easily explained away because the crime didn't go and it wasn't carried out in the manner that it was intended to had he been able to remove her from the home right alive. That's that's how my theory goes. This would've looked taken on a whole different appearance. It would have taken on a whole different investigation. Something happened where he realized or determined in the moment that he couldn't get her out of the house. I don't know what that is but whatever it is. I'm backing up. The motivating factor for this abduction. Which I believe is? What was the intention here with sexual assault was because is this individual had already taken the risk to get what they wanted and when they could not get her out of the house? They assaulted her inside. The home home struck her over the head to make sure that she was dead and then left or possibly got spooked. And I but I believe that this this person knew the house. Well they knew that by if you can get her down to the basement. You're now putting two floors between you and her and her parents now. Do you think this case is solvable. I was actually listening to somebody on the way here to the garage. That was an expert in my opinion. Very good expert. That was saying they believe. The case is still has the potential to be solved oft based off of forensic evidence personally. I don't feel very good about this case. Ever being solved in the problem with that is is. That's without that's with the exception of having a somebody come forward saying I did this. This is how I did it. And then they can pull some evidence together and go. Yeah we can back up this individual story. Because of this this and this right where I think this case lends itself to be unsolvable unsolvable at say is in a court of law if you make an arrest and somebody isn't willing to confess to the murder order. I think it's going to be very difficult to convict. Based off of public opinion. You could move this case you know some cases they do a change of venue because the either the perpetrator doesn't stand a chance or there's problems with the case. Whatever right you can move this case to Mars and it's still will a mess? It's still convoluted mess. There are people out there that feel so strongly about their opinion. And that's why that's why part of me only willing to go. Oh fifty one percent in on this intruder theory on my thoughts on the case because I understand why so. Many people are are firm firm in their beliefs and in their opinions of this case. Because just like you pointed out earlier you watch. CBS and you go. Yup I think they nailed it now. I know what to believe right. You Watch the e thing same thing but it's a different answer. It's a different response. You read Steve Thomas's book. You absolutely believe Patsy did it. You know it's really comes from whoever you get your information from An. I actually don't believe that anybody is out there. You're trying to skew this in any way that's malicious or this trying to deceive the audience right. I think that there there is is evidence that you could argue either way and if you choose to argue it all one way it makes a good case for whatever your opinion or your theory is on the case one Henry Lee said that he didn't he say that he believes that this is not just a DNA solvable case. Well I believe what his statement was that he believes that the DNA is of no value to eliminate somebody as a suspect or to convict them in a court of law. Aw One so one. I think they need to try to come to some kind of understanding in some conclusion with the DNA to figure out is it. A single male is or`mixture. I know that they were talking about doing tests back in two two thousand sixteen in two thousand seventeen I have not I could not find any new results of those. Because if we do no because what they could do as a contest that make sure with female DNA and then if they have any trace of female DNA that POPs in than there would and more likely it's a mixture and now we gotta go back to the drawing boards. But I think they need to figure that out for one but all all accounts announce state that it's male DNA. It was taken from a Right but it's not clear if it's two or three or just one. Yes that I don't know I do know that it was taken from a A Do blood sample. If you WANNA call it I don't know that's the best way to describe it but what that tells me is that they're taking this fluid and they're finding DNA in the fluid and if they're saying that it's coming from a Dole all sample than they've already been able to identify what that other where that other samples coming from right meaning. It came the most. It's obvious answer is the other. DNA comes from. Jon Benet bright and so if they're able to make that conclusion then I don't think they can rule rule out one hundred percent that it's not You know more than one. DNA but it sounds to me what they are able to conclude as what they're looking at. Ah they believe one hundred percent to be male unknown male or unidentified male DNA. I think what Lee what Henry Henry Lee and several other experts are trying to point out regarding this. DNA itself. Is that the type of DNA. It is is not. It's not indicative of anything that that may have occurred during the commission of any of these crimes regardless of Of what crimes you believe took place place this. DNA does not have to be there because of a sexual assault this DNA does not have to be there because of a murder. What they're saying is the problem with the DNA Alta mentally? Right now is that they don't know where it came from and they don't know how long it was there right. Meaning there's a chance it worked. Its way there after the fact after she was already killed after the perpetrator fled or after John and patsy started recovering up the crime by that. There's a chance that that DNA has nothing to do with the murder of this child and that is the problem and until they can figure out you might be able to clear that up if you can figure out where it came from if there would be a way for you to prove it's impossible for to end up on the body the after the fact that only ended up on her during the commission of these crimes right. But if I'm talking with John Ramsey and and John says to me a I wanNA hire you for this case. I'd say John The first thing we need to do is look at this. DNA and we need to come to some consensus with multiple experts. I'd also WanNa pull in some investigators that that believed that it was the family. I'd WanNa pull them in and to have them help with the investigation because they would be our checks and balances also think they need to figure out the stun gun theory. I don't know if they can still do it but I know at the time they were would have been able to Dig Her up and do some tests to figure out if these were trained tracks marks or possibly a stun gun or neither or right right and I think that's important. I also think this digital ma molestation. That's what I'm going to call it. That possibly happened on the twenty second or twenty third or the and then than happen the day of the murder. Now I say the day of the murder because that I believe was in the report ambler throughout this theory and I think there are some investigation. That should be done. This is not this is finger molest station. They believe finger was insider. Now you can. You can explain it away in multiple different with the wiping aggressive wiping and and different things but most people believe this is some form molestation. LS Station. I would also argue. You have children playing on the twenty third not always supervised and then the same thing happens on the twenty fifth was there. Is there a kid involved and here here are just put it out there. Is it possible a kid did. This ended wasn't meaning harm by. It was just a kid kid not knowing any better Zandt Megan any sense at all. It's certainly make some sense to me. But I think that the evidence showing that to me it shows that the digital manipulation right is what they term it occurred and probably occurred near at or near the time of for death which I'd lean that way I'm just saying is. Is this something that we can again. It's just like with the train track marks or the stun handgun marks. I think it starts narrowing things down so if we can come to a consensus of that this there was some kind of. I'm I'M GONNA call digital molestation because it's station. Is this happening at the time of her death rowing that out. I also think because there's too many coincidences when you look at Santa Bill. There's too many odd things. His daughter was kidnapped. Twenty two years before on the date. It's unsolved kidnapping technically. Yes they find Jon Benet Ramsey in her house. But there's a ransom note so to me. It's technically a kidnapping unsolved kidnapping and this guy. Like I said I. I looked as much as could into this bear that was found and you can look at the crime scene photos and see this bear on the bed. I WANNA know if it really came from that pageant. If they can prove that. But here's what we do now. Santa Bill was hired by multiple people and worked multiple locations. We have tons of evidence out there. And here's something that the public could actually look for if your child had any picture the bill is there a bear that matches this description. I think if it does. That's enough of a reason for us to go. Hey this this guy needs to be looked into further. The other thing I would want to know is in your Santa Claus outfit most Santa Clauses were where Black Act boots. I would like to see anybody that has a picture with Santa Bill. What boots are what boots is Is he wearing at the time. And is it possible that they're high tech. which would be the marks? That were found shoe shoeprints that were found and in the basement so I think those are things that people can look into now and get us closer to some answers. It was determine that there were more than one hundred burglaries in the Ramsey's neighborhood in the months before Jonbenet's murder there were thirty. Eight registered sex offenders is living within a two mile radius of the ramseys home. And if you can't get enough of the true crime garaged make sure you check us out on stitcher. You can find all of our old episodes and any confined our other show off the record. Hey crispy colonel. What's Merry Christmas? You filthy animal Merry Christmas to everyone on out there. Thank you for joining us in the garage all year long. We hope to see you back here next year. Merry Christmas Merry Christmas and happy. New Year cheers the captain. Captain Cheers to all of the true crime garage army until next year. Be Good behind. Don't let the.

Jon Benet Melinda Ramsey John RAMSEYS Patsy Ramsey John Patsy Azzi Burke John Ramsey murder John Molesting Jon Benet Jon Benet Ramsey Ramsey Linda Hoffman Ramsey family CBS Colorado Ramsey Ramsey Old Hoffman Pugh people magazine
New Tools for Schools, RNC Events Canceled & Redskins Rebranded- Friday, July 24th, 2020

the NewsWorthy

10:57 min | 6 months ago

New Tools for Schools, RNC Events Canceled & Redskins Rebranded- Friday, July 24th, 2020

"Today is Friday July twenty four. What to know about new guidelines for getting kids back in classrooms. How federal health officials say it can still happen safely this fall? Also we'll explain the big change of plans for the Republican National Convention Plus Airlines are cracking down on this one rule the former Washington. redskins got an underwhelming new name, and which big milestone is happening this weekend. Welcome welcome to the newsworthy all the day's news in less than ten minutes fast. They're fun and on the go America Mandy. Thanks so much for being here. You're ready. Let's do this. Students! Parents and teachers have a new checklist for back to school. In the age of Corona virus as expected the CDC released new school guidelines for the fall. They say students should wear masks, and they're telling parents to start practicing with their kids now they also want schools to encourage students to wash their hands, bunch and keep space between all the kids. For example, schools should come up with ways to spread out desks or use outdoor spaces whenever that's an option, but there's one. One thing notably not listed in the new CDC recommendations plans for virtual at home learning instead the CDC lays out many reasons why reopening in person this fall is the right call. The CDC says children don't suffer much from covid nineteen that they're less likely than adults to spread the virus, and that there are long term consequences to keeping children away from school. The CDC also says schools need to come up with their own plans for controlling outbreaks, but also if the virus does. Does start spreading uncontrollably than local officials can consider closing schools, some teachers, unions and the American. Academy of Pediatrics have said they want to hear more about the specifics of this. They also want schools to get more funding from Congress to help. Put some safety protocols in place. Lawmakers are debating those details now, but remember of city states and specific school districts have already announced plans for the upcoming start of the school year out of the country, fifteen largest school districts eleven have already. Already, decided not to have students come back in person full-time. Some are starting to school year. Online only decided on a mix of in person and virtual classes, so it's different everywhere, and of course parents and guardians still have to decide what's right for their own kids, so the CDC published a decision making checklist for families who don't know whether to send children back to school or not. We posted a link to that checklist and all the detailed CDC guideline in today's show notes. The Nation's top infectious disease experts says it's possible. Cova nineteen will always be a part of our lives. Dr, Anthony. FAUCI said the virus will not just disappear, but instead world leaders and public health officials can work to bring the number of covid nineteen cases down to quote low levels so how to do that exactly Dr Voucher says there are a few ways to control the virus with some regulations, but the real key is getting the overwhelming majority of the population vaccinated. Then he says we can start talking about getting back to normalcy. Remember there are vaccines being tested right? Right now they're on track to be ready. Early, twenty, thousand, twenty one and already the US put in multibillion dollar orders to get vaccines from three different companies, just in case they work for now. Though the new corona virus is not disappearing, it's spreading quickly cove in nineteen cases in the US reached the four million mark yesterday, and it's only been about two weeks since the US reached three million confirmed cases, so people are being diagnosed at a rapid pace, and unfortunately thousands of Americans are dying from covid nineteen still. California Florida and Tennessee reported single day records in-depth us. Over all the nations, death toll is more than one hundred and forty, four thousand in less than six months. A big change of plans for the Republican National Convention instead of having a four night RNC in Florida it's just going to be a four hour meeting with a small group of GOP representatives. The convention was supposed to happen in late August in Jacksonville and tens of thousands of people were expected to attend president trump had originally pushed for those crowd, and even shifted the event from North Carolina. To Florida back June in the hopes of making that happen, but now he says it's just not the. The right time to hold crowded events because of how quickly the corona virus spreading trump says he'll still give a convention speech, but it's not clear where yet he also says there are plans for so called Tele rallies during the week of August twenty fourth. Meanwhile the democratic. National Convention is still happening one week earlier starting August seventeenth that will still be a mostly virtual event. Former vice president Joe Biden is set to accept the nomination in person in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, but all delegates will stay home. To government watchdogs are now investigating how federal agents have been acting in Portland Oregon? Remember the Department of Homeland Security sent agents to Portland to protect monuments and federal property from protesters and rioters, but last week the agents were accused of using tear gas and other weapons against peaceful protesters and whisking people away in unmarked cars without probable cause Portland's mayor was also teargassed when he joined the demonstrations now the inspectors, general or oversight divisions from both the. The Justice Department and Homeland Security Department are looking into those allegations, but president trump has argued federal officers are necessary in areas dealing with unrest or violent crime. In fact, The New York Times says the feds decided to send another tactical team to nearby Seattle Washington. They're the team is just supposed to be on standby and intervene if property is threatened, but Seattle's mayor told The Times the city. It does not need their help to be continued. The former Washington redskins have a new name, but this one is just temporary. They'll simply be called the Washington football team for the time being this is essentially a standing until the team settled on a permanent name and logo remember the team suddenly abandoned the Redskins name earlier this month because it's an offensive term that refers to native Americans so now the team. Team is working on rebranding. That's Ed one thing. Stay. The same ESPN reports the teams Burgundy and gold colors are sticking around another quick note about sports. More of them are coming back to competing the WNBA is such a return for its abbreviated season tomorrow and NHL teams all go to their home bases on Sunday with games starting backup on August first. We have more news coming up, but first this episode is brought to you by Rossi's. In case, you haven't heard about Rossi's before. It's a company making stylish sustainable shoes and bags for life on the go. I have a pair of these flats and I love them. I can wear them with everything from genes to address. In fact, I often wear my great read. ROCKIES flats just to go for a walk around the block, choosing them over even my tennis shoes for comfort, and I'll look more stylish along the way and of read isn't your choice. There's an ever changing array of. Of Colors Princeton patterns in a bunch of different styles, and you can feel great about it. Since Roth are carefully crafted with ECO friendly materials, there's a reason vogue calls it quote personal obsession and Health magazine says they're the most comfortable shoes on earth, and I agree with that, so check out all the amazing shoes and bags available right now at ramseys dot com slash newsworthy. That's a ROCKIES DOT COM, R., O., T., H., Y. S. RAF dot com slash newsworthy style and sustainability meet to create your new favorites head to dot com slash newsworthy today now back to the news. Airlines are doubling down on mask, requirements both American and Southwest Airlines. Now say everyone over the age of two must wear a mask. People can no longer claim medical exemptions. Apparently, the airlines have seen too much of that, and they say puts their employees and other customers in an uncomfortable spot, meanwhile delta and United Airlines are also clamping down, but they're not being quite strict. United says passengers with a medical exemption must contact the airline I and Delta is having them show up early to fill out a clearance to fly form. That could take an extra hour. Disney is postponing movie releases again. It was supposed to debut Moulana next month, but the movie was pulled off the schedule and it's new release. Date hasn't been set other major blockbusters getting pushback to USA. Today reports next year's new. Star Wars and Avatar films were delayed until two thousand twenty, two. Of course, the pandemic is behind all of this. Since the virus forced production shutdowns by the way, some big name movie theaters are still closed for example, the theater chain AMC was supposed to open next week, but axios reports. It's now aiming for mid to late August we'll see. TIKTOK is giving US creators, two hundred million dollars. The company started a fund that compensates creators for using its platform. They just have to meet some requirements. They need to be at least eighteen years old, and they have to consistently be posting original content. They also need to have a certain number of followers, although that number has not yet been specified, still engage reports tiktok will open up the application process next month. This new program comes as tiktok faces a lot of questions about how it and it's Chinese parent company handle data tech crunch, says it seems this promise of payoffs is to fight that fire in the US. This Sunday March thirtieth anniversary of the Americans with Disabilities Act. It's a landmark measure that protects people with disabilities from discrimination in all areas of life from transportation to employment over the last three decades. It's had a profound effect on the millions, of Americans, living with disabilities. For example, it's the reason buildings have wheelchair accessible ramps parking. Lots have accessible spots and close captioning is available across platforms to learn more and celebrate the thirtieth anniversary of the tune in tomorrow for our very first special edition. Saturday I talked with Alli stroke or for this interview. She's the first Broadway star ever who uses a wheelchair. You'll see the episode Saturday morning. Right here wherever you listen to podcasts. And, that's for the main ten minutes of news today, but now it's time for feel Good Friday. Where we bring you one extra feel, good or positive news story before the weekend and feel Good Friday is brought to you by Magic Spoon, the guilt free cereal that tastes amazing. Magic Spoon has zero sugar and eleven grams of protein in each serving, and all the flavors are great from fruity and frosted to the limited time peanut butter. Yum, try variety, pack it magic spoon dot com slash newsworthy and use the Promo Code Newsworthy for free shipping all right so today we're talking about A. A creative way to feed people in need volunteers in Los Angeles. California have started putting refrigerators in public places, the encourage members of the community to stock them than anyone who's hungry can come by open the fridge and take what they need and be cla reports. The project started less than two weeks ago and already about half a dozen fridges have been set up across the city. Businesses have even volunteer to provide electricity for them, and it's not just individuals who are dropping off donations, restaurants and meal. Delivery services have chipped into. You can follow the project on Instagram at La Community for. Thank you so much for listening and thanks for sharing the show to help more people stay informed and special. Thanks to the newsworthy insiders for all your support, we appreciate you. Of course you can read more about any of the news. Stories mentioned at the newsworthy dot com under the episodes tab and we'll be back tomorrow with these special editions Saturday interview, and then on Monday with your regular news updates have a great weekend.

CDC US redskins trump covid Washington Portland president The Times America Florida Washington redskins Congress Homeland Security Department Southwest Airlines Washington. Seattle Academy of Pediatrics Rossi Delta
Episode 8  How to Use Dave Ramseys Baby Steps

The Life By Design Podcast

26:42 min | 2 years ago

Episode 8 How to Use Dave Ramseys Baby Steps

"Royal Stanley of Oregon Pacific financial advisers, offering securities through United planners financial services. Member FINRA SIPC shares. His planning approach to help people toward a place where they may be at peace regarding their financial goals in this dynamic podcast. Royal will share his insights on how to design a retirement plan to help you plan for your future. Now onto the show. Hello and welcome to life, but design with Royal Stanley from organ Pacific financial advisers today, we're gonna be talking about Dave Ramsey baby steps and some of the things that Royal does in his practice to incorporate these good morning, Royal. How are you doing great doing great looking forward to get into? This is this is a process that I go through quite often with clients. And I think it'll be good to be able to share this with people where they can go back and listen to all the specifics abalata. Dave Ramsey end is baby steps fantastic. All right before we get to deep into this. What's new with you, Royal just getting ready here? My wife, and I we're going to take my daughter down to Disneyland next week. But we haven't really told her where we're going yet. She loves going to hotels, and she always talks about are. We going to go to a hotel, and how many sleeps are we going to have? That's awesome counts. The number of nights where stayed and so I told her we're going down going to a hotel for three nights. And she's like what about four sleeps? And she's negotiating this with me. And it's pretty durable. And she has no idea where we're going. She's been to Disneyland before told her at has a pool, which is I think the most important thing to her. And we we've told her it's newer park. Oh, joe. She'll be happily surprised when we get down there. Exactly. She'll shoe recognize park. It is very quickly. I'm sure. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. All right. Well, let's jump into Dave Ramsey's baby steps or are. We starting today. I thought I might just touch on my relationship day Ramsey. I've used Dave Ramsey for probably ten fifteen years now as a way of helping clients just to kind of advocate, maybe getting their financial house in order. I think it's a very simple systematize. His way of looking at your financial situation and improving it in gradual steps you can take without overwhelming yourself. I think so many people just look at all the things that they have in front of that they need to do to start preparing paying off debt saving for the future. Saving for college pain up the house and just gonna feeling over while the Dave Ramsey program is really geared to cut up each of those stages of life. And move people towards I think financial freedom, and you know, the name of his his university that gets put on at various churches or other beauty organizations financial financial peace university that that's really what those babies sets geared for his cheating, financial peace. However, you you might define that. I'm also the a Smartvestor pro which is program where if you're Dave Ramsey listener, you go to find those who have gone through that Dave Ramsey training and have the same outlook that damn has when it comes to someone's financial situation, though, we have that through our website at o- PF dot com. You can go there and check it out. We have information about that. If you wanna tend financial peace university and really get kinda deep education about all these baby steps, you can just go online to the Dave Ramsey website every dot com and find a financial peace university near you just put it in your zip Cup data. Kind of brings me to yesterday had a first appointment with a young couple. They came in and had just gone through some medical medical situation had a little bit of time off work had been medical debt. And I think they're just trying to sitting back in. How do we even deal with us? We've got student loans. We've got car dad, we've got a little bit of credit card debt. And now this this big medical debt. How how do we even work with them? And by using the start of the baby steps, it was a very easy way of giving them a sense of. Here's a plan. We're gonna fall into get you out of the situation we made it bite sides. So it wasn't an overwhelming thing of well, all you have to do is pay off this hundred thousand dollars worth of debt at your fine. That's not realistic. I think for the vast majority of people by giving them that sense of here's the plan. Here's what you have to do in three and a half years or four years. You can have all of this taking care of. It's an easy way to help people just kind of move through that process and get to that point of. Okay. What's next and how how can I get to that next step in this process? Absolutely. It's it's like the old saying how do you eat an elephant right one by the time to take one bite of the time. So can you tell us what the baby steps are? Yeah. Absolutely. So they're seven babies steps. And we'll just kind of walk through them one by wanting and destroy them. Never one is really just you. You have to make a commitment to make an changing your life and realize that you have to take that first step away from using credit cards using. Debt as a crutch to finance your life. Dave Ramsey's program is really designed to have around the concept of leaving a debt free life. And so big step number one is almost a triage if you will of just trying to get thousand dollars saved as your star for emergency savings that thousand dollars. So if something comes up, you at least have money in the Bank, or you know, at home that you can just get to pay for new tires. Your car breaks down any of those little emergencies that might crop crop up without falling back on using your credit cards. So that first baby step is simply let's get a thousand dollars in the Bank and for some people that's fair easy. Maybe they have a good paying job, and they can easily just shift at those dollars into savings in a month or two other people that that could be a six months to a year long process. You know, we want to encourage. People wherever they're at. But doing the baby step number one is a great way of just showing commitment. And it's it's it's a way of saying. Okay. I've got a baby step number one checked off my list. What's knacks? Absolutely. So after that, we look at putting together a plan for getting rid of the step in. That's what I call it. Debt snowball. It's Dave calls it. And it's really a great process to say what's the plan? Forget getting rid of this stat. So in the simplest terms, what we'd looked to do is we take a look at all of your debt that you might have. And kind of rank it according to the balance and the interest rates you're paying on it. So usually at the top of that list is, you know, the credit card debt, you have and that sort of thing then made maybe your cars, student loans and medical debt kinda shifted in their each person's situations is a little bit different. So yesterday sat down with this. And it just kind of did this for that. We just had a conversation of. Okay. What are your priorities? What what goals you the most about your financial situation would think she wanna focus on we. We just kind of built this plan to say. Here's the priority list that you wanna focus on each of these stats and what we do is. We take the minimum payment for all of those credit cards loans etcetera. And just say you're going to pay the minimum payment on all those except for your number one priority. So let's say it's a it's a credit card with two thousand dollar balance. If that's the case we're going to put all of our focus each mum on getting that paid off now minimum. We want someone at least pay an extra hundred dollars a month on that credit card. But if they're able to, you know, three four five hundred dollars maybe yard sale and put all that money onto that one that maybe your tax return that sort of thing. And once that's paid off. What we want to do is take your minimum payment on that first card and begin applying it to your priority, number two debts, and then at all your extra income all the Midi extra money, you can kinda scrounge around and fine and put it on that second debt and overtime that begins to build a snowball because what you're using for your minimum payment keeps. Growing on that priority debt. So what we see is it usually takes quite some time to get this first two or three debts paid off. But once you get that, you you're putting so much torture debt each month that those lower priorities can really be taken care of pretty quickly the grant seem thanks. So that's that's basics of debt snowball. One thing. I offer to clients coming in is to go ahead and just build that for them. And just say, okay. Here's how many months this will take will factor in all the interest and whatnot. And just look at how long we can get them out of all that consumer debt. Now, the cabbie out there is we don't really look at your mortgage payment as part of the debt snowball while it is debt it it's a good kind of debt because it allows us to to leverage our well and buy a home that we can live in. And if you look at a Americans and the way they build wealth. Buying a house and getting paid off overtime is one of the number one ways of building while. So we don't wanna take that away from from someone with that being said one of the things that we need to focus on it's removing through baby steps one into that emergency savings from the debt snowball is getting a handle on your spending. And maybe for some people that's really building out of strict budget for others. Maybe it's a looser spending plan. I think everybody's a little bit different. What their needs are in the way, they look at money and they're spending. But we encourage people just to find a system that works for you. And for some people it's getting really serious about budgeting. So, you know, where every single dollars allocated, and for others that might be a little bit looser where you say, I know I'm spending this much on getting my debt payments down so much. But we wanted us a certain level of intensity to get that taken care. Of soon as possible because really we can't really do anything Intel that does taken care are now that that debt snowball has been rolling, and it's complete. What's the next step? Then once that debt is all taken care of now for somebody who owns a house it they'll still have their mortgage off. But after that dead state and care now, we're gonna lay the foundation for the future, and that's with building three to six months of emergency savings. Now, you still have your thousand dollars. You've kind of set aside, but Dow we wanna start building up just kind of the beginnings of that really large emergency savings that's going to be there. So you never have to worry about going back into credit card debt should something come up, and I get the question quite often. You know, how much should we plan for where should we put it? You know, I I'm word. I'm not gonna highness interest rate on my emergency save in should I invest? It all these questions seem to pop up. And so give you kind of my generally, sir here. The first thing we wanna focus on is getting three months of emergency savings in the Bank. I'm not really worried so much about the interest rate. You're getting on that money. The reason being is we're not looking to invest this money this money simply there to protect you should something major happen. And it's extremely liquid. It's extremely liquid. We want we want people to be able to get to right away. We don't want to worry about the volatility of the market there. And the way we look at it's not necessarily three months of income that you need to have save, but it's really three months of living expenses. So for someone who makes you know, one hundred eighty thousand dollars a year, it might not need to be forty five thousand dollars at they have set aside in the Bank. But if they're only living, let's say five thousand fifteen. Thousand would would cover their living expenses for that three months. So we wanna look at living expenses. Not just what you are annual salary is divided by three or sex. And then also I think there's there's some other factors in there that that kind of determined you need to go up to six months of emergency savings. What is are you just a single income earner family in that case having that six month buffer is probably a good thing. Because if anything happens to that primary breadwinner, you wanna have that extra room in your emergency savings that extra capacity to kind of figure out what the next step is the other thing, we really look at is. Do you have guaranteed sources of income that are coming in for instance, if you're already retired, and you have pension and retirement income, you know, do you really need six months of emergency savings set aside there it might be nice to have. But at a certain point my want to shift some of that say. Savings to a moral liquid investment. Simply because you probably won't lose your social security your pensions engine income. Yeah. The other thing will will look at there is life insurance and disability insurance for those who are still working because that's that's the biggest risk there. Especially for someone in their working years. Disability is really the bigger risk more than life and showing life insurance is is good to have. But I think people really under estimate. How often a disability Inc occurs in someone's weren't career? It's we have discounted our mind, cause it's not as devastating s a loss of a spouse or a mother. What we have that three to six months of emergency saving set aside. That's were really wanna start focusing in on saving for the future. Ver- saving for retirement. Okay. At this point. And this is where I began meeting with quite a quite a lot of people. I have a lot of people go through this first baby steps very quickly or Orna alumna cases, especially with folks who really had a good handle, our finances and didn't have to go through the process of getting into debt and then getting back out of down. They can go fairly quickly just right through from emergency savings and begin saving for the future. So what we want to look at is it possible. Try to get as much money set aside into tax free accounts, like a Roth IRA or Roth four one K and have a target of about fifteen percent of your pretax income that we want you to be focused on saving for the. Future. Now oftentimes people will hit the limit on how much they can put into a Roth IRA. So that will start looking at do. They have 4._0._1._K's at match are there other after-tax accounts that we should start using. But we really wanna get in that habit of using fifteen percent as our starting point for saving for the future, and my personal opinion. Is that fifteen percent should be what your income is not don't include anything that your company matches. So for instance, I I talked a lot of people say, oh, I'm saving fifteen percent for retirement. But six percent of that coming from my company man, I really encourage people try to get up to fifteen percent of your own money. And then at the company match on top of that it does to Ben's one it exceleron. It's how bigly you're building wealth. But more importantly, it also lowers how much income you have coming in. And allows to live on less, basically restricts how much you can you can spend each month, which is a good thing for retire. We want to have a high income and a low cost of living. That's that's really my ideal situation for people when we look at planning for the future, and we look at building. Well, that's good. That's good math. I think so I think I've seen a lot of people who, you know, two hundred three hundred thousand dollars a year. But at the end of the your heaven saved a dollar. And I think we all know people like that are your stories about that. Where is not really an income problem, but it's a spending problem so just by lowering and deferring some of that income into retirement plan into an investment vehicle. It's a great way of making sure that adds something to show for that income at the end of the year. And also, I think that fifteen percent rate is a starting point. It's not the end all be all for how much she should be saving for the future, especially when you look at associate for younger people, what might happen was so security and really be complete disappearance of pensions from both private employers across the country. Yeah. Definitely. Royal they've got they're they're doing their fifteen percent. And even better than that. They're doing their fifteen percent. And their company's matching. We've got that step down. What's the next step? So step number five is what situational? And that's that's really lecture. You're saving that money for your future. It's looking at your children's future. And that's really where college savings comes into play. Obviously for those people who don't have kids or the kids are already out of the house. Don't have to worry about college savings at all. But for those that that do this would be the time that we wanna start looking at setting decide money for for call. And I think everyone has a different way of looking at that how best to fund their children's college. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer. Here. I have a lot of clients who are taking the time with their kids to basically say you're going to work your way through school. Just like I did because I had an experience. Where I had to do that. And I really appreciated that time in the education. I got whereas others might say, I just wanna make sure that my kids get outta school with don't debts and don't worries and can start their life on the best foot possible. There's no right or wrong answer here. The never one thing. I would say is. I never wanna see client hood, four years worth of college savings in an account that specifically tied to education like an ESA or a five twenty nine plan ESA is an educational savings account because if that happens if that child decides had I've not going to go to school. A maybe I got a full ride scholarship maybe instead of going to Harvard. I'm just going to go to a state school by getting to twenty five twenty that can create its own problem. So that's why one as a few different account types to begin saving for school in a five twenty nine clan for college savings. I usually don't like to see more than two years of educational expenses saved that way. And then when we get to the point of school, we want to spend that five twenty nine money really early on in the educational process. Just to make sure it all gets spent. All right for those who don't have kids or taking care of and setting aside money for college at this point. It's really just a focus on getting your primary residence paid off got an hour focusing on the house. Exactly. So this this is where you've taken care of all your debt, you've got money in the Bank. You've got money going into your 4._0._1._K, Zha, Roth IRA's and other accounts. College has been taken care of for your cats nounce time to really take care of that last piece of debt that most people how and from a financial planning standpoint, I loved his down across from India client who says we just got the house paid off where we're getting ready to retire. That's an ideal situation. I'm not saying you can't retire with a mortgage. I'm just saying it's a whole lot easier. If you don't have absolutely at that point. Then we'll have a. Conversation about how much extras to really start putting on the house, and and try to look at getting that house paid off as early as possible. Because once that house paid off we can move into that last baby step, and that's really where we just look at building. Well, and creating a legacy going forward what you've taken care of all those basic I six steps of the plan. It's at this time that we can really start looking at, you know, supporting those causes that are really important to you building wealth to pass onto future generations. And we've in that legacy there. So that point that that baby step number seven that really goes on the rest of someone's let went taken care of those first sex step. So that's that's where wanna get our clients to where they don't have debt. They're financially free. Hopefully, they have found financial peace, and they don't have that worry that follows around so many Americans who are tied to this cycle of credit card payments, car payments, and just kind of that fear that if some. Something happens. Everything comes crashing to a halt. That's a terrible place to be. So for clients who have gone through this process either through Dave Ramsey or just because it's a natural function of how they view buddy in their financial live. They really for the most part have a sense of wellbeing that they don't have those worries that most Americans happen. They're leaving in a place where the worry about tomorrow about making that next mortgage payment or rent payment just isn't there, and it's a place where they can enjoy their life and really live little light. That's you need to that. So that's where we're trying to get our clients to like call to action today would be if that's something you would like to have a conversation with for somebody who's walked through these steps with hundreds of clients, you good our website at o- PF aid dot com. You can make an appointment there. Give me a call. We can totally just sit down and. Look at your personal situation in answer those questions what planned in use it to reach that point of financial Welby Earl that sounds great to me. But I also know that we're low on time today. So we need to wrap this up. Do you have any closing thoughts? I said visit our website make an appointment. It's a very easy process to to go through an just start making that plan for the future. Also, I encourage it listen to the Dave Ramsey show. Check out his book, the total money makeover. I really encourage people to to get educated about the best way of dealing with kind of budgeting money dot sorta. Absolutely. Thank you. Everyone for listening to life by design podcast with Stanley. If you've not subscribe to the podcast yet. Please click the subscribe now button below this way. When Royal comes out with a new podcast it'll show up directly on you're listening device. This makes it much easier to share these podcasts with your friends and family, and I'm thinking. That most of you have friends or family that should just be taking that one individual small single little step toward their financial freedom toward getting their financial house in order. And this is a great way to do it. This is a great list that Royal is shared with us today. It's been proven time and time again to work for folks. So if you have questions, or if you you just wanna know how easy or how difficult these steps are going to be reach out contact Royal in his office. Thanks again for listening for everyone at Oregon Pacific financial advisors. This is Eric Johnson reminding you to live your best day everyday. We'll see next time. Thank you for listening to the life by design podcast. Click the subscribe button below to be notified when new episodes become available. The views expressed are those of the presenter and may not reflect the views of United planners financial services. Material discussed is meant to provide general information, and is not to be construed as specific investment tax or legal advice individual needs berry and require consideration of your unique objectives and financial situation. Always seek the advice of your financial advisor or other qualified financial service provider with any questions, you may have regarding your investment planning advisory services offered through Oregon Pacific financial advisors Inc. Securities offered through United planners financial services of America. Member FINRA and SIPC. Oregon Pacific financial advisors Inc. And United planners financial services are independent companies.

Dave Ramsey Royal Bank Royal Stanley Disneyland Oregon Pacific financial advis Disneyland Royal Stanley Oregon Pacific FINRA Intel Oregon Pacific advisor Roth Dow Eric Johnson