2 Episode results for "Ramana jen"

Guest Episode: The Infinite God

Undiscovered

30:58 min | 2 years ago

Guest Episode: The Infinite God

"Undiscovered is supported by capterra dot com. The free resource to help you find the software you need for your business. Get their new e book. The big book of free software for free at capterra dot com. Slash undiscovered that c. a. p. t. e. r. r. a. dot com slash undiscovered. Undiscovered is supported by target presenting future at heart. A new podcast, let explores the impact change makers across the country who were building a better tomorrow, download future at heart on apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This, he's undiscovered. Hey, guys, anti here Ella as well. And fun fact before I made a a science podcast. My first ever job in radio was actually at a rock and roll talk show yet kind kinda different than what we do. Musicians as guests a little bit different than scientists as guests. Like I've never had a scientists come to an interview with a portable laser show what or or keep their shades on for the entire conversation like Debbie, Harry of Blondie did classic. Like of course she would, but the musician who made the biggest impression on me and my extremely short career in rock journalism was not someone who is particularly famous. His name is Robert Schneider. Robert Schneider is the front man of the successful indie band, the apples in stereo. Also a fantastic record producer and what really struck me about him is well. First of all, this guy talks a mile a minute, just like. Like his his, his words are trying to catch up with his fabulous brain that's already like down the block away as and he's super crafty and DIY. He's making these amazing, lush records with, you know, busted up tape machines that he found at a yard sale and boom boxes. Anyway, a few years ago, I read that Robert Schneider had ditched his music career to become a number theorist like a full-time mathematician number theorist, yes, unconventional move. And so I was always curious, like what happened while today? We're gonna find out what happened to Robert Schneider. We're going to play you an episode of a podcast that we love a friend of undiscovered. Joel Werner makes a show called some of all parts for ABC Australia, amazing podcast. It's all about numbers numbers in culture, numbers in music in sports, and he didn't episode about Robert Schneider and about a mathematician that Robert was obsessed with. Very famous. In some circles, a self taught Indian mathematician named Ramona, Jen, Ramana, Geant brilliant, mathematician lived one hundred years ago claimed that his acquaintance were written on his tongue by a Hindu goddess, incredible story, and we're gonna. Let Joel take it from here. Robot was the last person that can Ono expected to hear from, oh my gosh, I'd known about Robert Schneider through his music, Kenza mathematician and professor of number theory at Emory University, five years ago. I got an Email from this Robert Schneider saying that he wanted to pursue a PHD in number theory, which for me is crazy. Pay on Joel. Robert is a rockstar. He's a lead singer of the band apples in stereo. We don't usually look for graduate students from school of Rockstars. This is some of old pots. I thought it was the craziest thing that this man in his early forties wants to put that career on hold and pursue a career in mathematics. And today it the infinite God. So this all starts when a crate turns up at Roberts recording studio. It's like the kind of create UC and old cartoons where there'll be like a kangaroo that's being shipped across the sea of the kangaroo breaks out of the crate and like wreaks havoc. Old. On maybe the kangaroo gets confused for a mouse or something like that. It's and it was an old school would create. You had to use a crowbar to open it. Live of that mouth. You know it was very romantic and when we opened it in the box fell aside, there is the most beautiful antique tape machine. We put it in place and the first time I used it, I realized that this was the perfection of the tape machine recording technology probably of all time as good as tight machine sanded. It had a problem. It would constantly blow out these things called diodes and electric component. And this was like the achilles heel of this particular tape machine for every one day that the tape machine worked. It would be broken down for two days to stop with the band, got a local audio engineer to come in and repair the machine, but then two days later he had to come back. You fix again, his look. I think this is just going to keep happening Robert. You're going to have to learn to fix this yourself. And so in the haze of just being sort of a lo fi, punk rock hippie recording artists suddenly had to learn about Electroncs. And so I. I went to radio shack, and I bought this book called basic electron IX and open the book up. And on the first page I open to right in the middle of the page. There was this equation called Ohm's law and owns law is the fundamental law of electronics. Basically, it's an equation that describes the numbers Hal, electric city flow, and it's so simple just has three things in it with an equal sign. And when I saw this law on the page, it completely blew my mind because realizing that moment that everything that I thought was important, everything I had tried to do that was beautiful. All of my friendship friends that I had traded news live music listening to the radio into record and tape porting onto the tape, mission microphone. Liquoring live, red lights flashing. All of this stuff was existing against the backdrop of the simple mathematical equation, and it's not just that my brain was an electrical system. My thoughts and my mind somehow were being supported by this equation and like, I'm in my studio and I met the microphone like we are right now and you speak into the microphone and your voice is transformed into electricity. And it goes through all of these circuits and stuff and comes back through the system into my headphones, and it's going back into my ears and there it's transformed back into the electrical impulses. And it goes back into my mind if this crazy loop of electricity that air entire existence is completely wrapped up in. And all of this stuff was contained in a simple equation that was just algebra on a page. My memory of that moment is that there was like lights shining down through the ceiling onto me, let golden light like those renaissance paintings really felt like that. It felt like there was no ceiling or sky above me just like Infinity, like pouring down this light on me onto the page. It was very dramatic feeling. After I had this sort of Pitney with the tape machine, I was extremely enamored of mathematics instantly so robots to teach himself mathematics and the whole time. This was happening. I'm in a touring band making records, and I'm in studios all of the time. And also I'm a dad. So in sort of the frenzy of life, I also was trying to sneak time whenever I could to learn about mathematics and work on these ideas. Robot would be backstage, hit the textbook all on a break in the studio scribbling away in one of these notebooks, but being Museau with the maths obsession is kind of a solitary pursuit, no matter how many degrees of separation you went away from me. I didn't even the one other person that was interested in math, maybe like if you had a day job, but then your hobby was that you were a solitary lumberjack and you'd like drive out into the wilderness miles and miles and miles away from any other human being in with chop down trees. Being like a self taught mathematician, not knowing anybody kind of feels like it's that isolated like you really are doing this thing that it doesn't connect anybody else. Like across fight. The volume was slowly turning down on Robert's music career and mixing with this new noise. Number theory, mathematic started to infiltrate the music that Robert was making like he used natural logarithms to develop this thing called a non Therrien scale. Hearing pace composed in this scale. Now, essentially, it's a brand new musical scale with new notes set at intervals that aren't found in the chromatic scale. We all know and love. This intrigued the mathematics community, and Robert was invited to give lectures on music and maths at universities and colleges across the US. And it was on one of these trips that he met Ken Ono. For the first time I am a professional real live research mathematician, which means that I spent a lot of time thinking about numbers, deep in the wilderness. Robert ran into another lumberjack cans, really enthusiastic. He's very high energy. He's kind of far out. He's a fan. Thinker. I can remember leaving and feeling like I was flying on math like it was the first time I had engaged in such a deep conversation with anybody, and he ended up having me in his office for like an hour and a half, and it was a really, really wonderful experience for me. So Kenan robot heated off for a whole bunch of reasons. But a big part of it is this shade obsession with a mystical, Indian mathematician who's been dead for almost a century Ramona gin much of my work, believe it or not is informed by a man named Romana. Jin hee is quite an amazing figure. Really. He is kind of like an incomplete profit in the world of math. Once you hear about some mathematicians Ramana Jains name is it comes up if you don't know anything about mathematics, will you know about Isaac Newton? Everybody knows who he is either maybe like iron Stein. If you go one layer in, so you say have heard about people like oiler and gals. Then you also about Ramana Jen. He's very famous in mathematics, but it's like being famous and. Indie music. If you've never heard of pavement, there's no way you'll ever hear of them. But they won level in. So like if you know what indie music is, then you know who pavement is. Similar in that, like if you do know about pavement then like you really know about pavement, do what I mean? Like you don't have a casual fan, right. If you've gotten that far in, then you're too far in. Born into poverty in the south of Indian eighty ninety seven Ramana Jin had almost no formal training in mathematics and yet still over the course of his lifetime. He came up with thousands of mathematical formulas because he thought they were gifts to him from his Hindu goddess, a goddess NAMA Geary at night in his sleeping dreams or when he was meditating in his temple, his family's goddess would come to him envisions em would touch his tongue with her finger and write equations on his tongue. Just how Ramana Jin came up with these formulas. One of the biggest mysteries in mathematics beyond the folklore of goddess riding on his tongue. He left behind no trace of how actually derived any of these work. Like I said, Ramana Jim was born into a poor family and paper was expensive. So he did all these calculations in chalk on a slight wiping the slate, clean, Izzy wind. It was only when he got to the. The final formula that he'd transcribe it from the slight into a notebook. He presented his work without any proofs is just a list of equations. Nobody could make heads or tails of it in his era. And for the last hundred years mathematicians have been trying to work out what Ramana JR and did and to prove his work Ramona work is all about unlocking the infinite about taking what most of us think of is inconceivable and making it more noble. You found ways of taming extremely complicated numbers so that you would never be afraid of them at all. As I looked into Ramana Jen, I found that his story really spoke to me. He was a self, taught mathematician. He didn't have access to education hit in fact dropped out of college. This inspired me to realize that you could take the sort of self motivated nonstandard path towards mathematics. That's more commonly the way that artists go about it. I saw him as being the model for the kind of genius that one might aspire to. You know Ramani was. Mathematician that provided me with the model of how I saw that mathematics should be done. Flash forward a couple of years, and I had decided that I was going to drop out of the music scene stopped touring and go to graduate school. And if I'm going to do that, I should probably do it now. I'm like forty until like over the course of a year or so pulled myself out of the music world. This is huge robots rockstar music is his entire life. That was sort of a weird, you know is a great time weird time to almost had like an identity sort of. Dissociated few a little bit where you have like people will leave town and change their names and move to a different place and take on a whole new identity. Didn't have that going on, but I felt a little bit like that was going on because there was no crossover between my music life and my math life, and it's pretty obvious who robot's going to want to oversee this crossover rut. He visited me at Emory University and he came armed with notebooks, couldn't believe it just like Ramana Jin had notebooks. You must have one hundred of them by now. Kim was grilling me to see if I was acceptable as a student for him and the. It wasn't just me coming in as a well known musician with a math hobby. It was like me coming in as a potential person he would work with, and it had a different flavor to it. The level of energy in the room who needs nuclear power. If you have someone like rob Schneider, he said, I don't know a lot of math, but I love beauty and I see that there is art in mathematics, and I wanna come study with you. It Emory, we went through as notebooks. I saw flashes of genius, and we took a gamble on him because a lot of the qualities that I see in Ramana Jin I see in Robert Robert's completely unconventional in his thoughts. And you know, he has produced some of the most beautiful formulas that I've seen in the last four or five years left that time it was more than flying on math. I mean, I was in like, orbit, you know, like it was such a great feeling. It was a very inspiring and exciting moment for me. As I left the building, my wife picked me up and the way she tells the story is that I got in the car and she looked at me and she said, I had never looked so happy, and she said to me, Honey, you're going to Emory, aren't you? And I thought about it for a second. And I was like, oh my God, she's right. I have never felt this happy in this kind of conversation about mathematics with anybody. So robot pecks up. He's house and his family, and he moves across the country to start a PHD with kin Ono. And soon after these Ken has a breakthrough huge result and it's to do with Ramana Jin's most mysterious work a mystery. He left to the world from his deathbed, but to understand it, we need to put it in the context of the end of Ramana Jones. Live. Coming out the mysterious death bed formulas of Sweeney Vaas Remond Dejan I've never seen anything like this. It's so crazy that it has to be true and Robert and Ken go to India when some of all parts continuing. Undiscovered is supported by target presenting future at heart. A new podcast about change makers across the country. Future at heart introduces listeners to cause explains why the 'cause it's so important for the community and takes the time to reflect on its future impact future at heart visits, Miami, Washington, DC, New York City and more to take a deep dive into understanding why it's critical to keep the future at heart download future at heart on apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast undiscovered is supported by capterra dot com. We all face unexpected hurdles at work. Don't let finding the right software. One of them download capterra's new e book, the big book of free software for free. I kept here dot com slash undiscovered, whether you're looking for a new project management tool recruiting software, or an Email marketing solution, capterra big book free software. Has you covered visit capterra dot com. Slash undiscovered. That's capterra c. a. p. t. e. r. dot com. Slash undiscovered. Going through my t shirt or the other day, and I realized I have reached a point in my podcast fandom where I have more podcast t shirts than I do banned t shirts. Congratulations. Thank you and my my favorite one, of course, not like I'm biased is my undiscovered shirt purely I that, yes, it's a dark, Heather gray has our logo on it. And right now you can get it for twenty percent off with the promo code undiscovered anything in our undiscovered store right now is twenty percent off through October, and you can see all that stuff. And of course, our snazzy t shirts at undiscovered, podcasts, dot org, slash store undiscovered podcast dot org slash store with discount code undiscovered. Today, undiscovered playing you an episode from podcast that we love. Some of all parts brings you extraordinary stories from the world of numbers. Here's host Joel Werner again. So reminded being collecting these formulas gifted to him any sleep by goddess, riding on his tongue. And after a while he starts sending his work to prominent mathematicians all around the world. Now he doesn't Tony working, right? So there's no way to figure out how he derived any of these ideas. So these academics, they pretty much just ignore him except for g. h. Hoti a number theorist at Cambridge University g h hardy was this amazing, super mathematician of his era. Ramana cinema, letter filled with mathematics. Hardy was like, I've never seen anything like this. It's so crazy that it has to be true. Hoti was running on a gut feeling invited Ramana reminded to come to England to study with him at Cambridge, and for. Period of five years in the mid nineteen teens when England was in the midst of this bloody World War Ramana Jen prove some of the most astonishing formulas of the day during his time at Cambridge reminded and struggle to adapt to English culture. In particular, he found the food strange and difficult to stomach frequently seek, but doctors couldn't figure out what was wrong with him. And eventually the constant illness got too much. So he returned to India in nineteen nineteen hoping to return to good health, but he continued to do his own research and in January of nineteen twenty. He wrote to his collaborator g h hardy in Cambridge, and this letter begins dear hardy. I'm sorry for not writing a single letter, but I've discovered this most wonderful theory and he goes on to list examples of functions. He calls mock veta- functions and for the next ninety years, nobody knew what he was talking about and this is very mystique. He sent it in a letter just a few pages long. So he didn't put any more information about it. But he indicated in the letter that he had a theory. And then the next letter Remond that hardy got said that religion had passed away. Remond engine died unfortunately at the age of thirty two long before he was able to explain all of his ideas to hardy and the other mathematicians. And so all that was left was the single letter that had a couple of examples. Nobody had any idea how Ramada had come up with them. And so these bizarre functions that reminded and dreamed up in a fever. One imagines on his deathbed turned out to be a huge subject of study and intrigue in the twentieth century. And this was kipnes big breakthrough. He figured out how reminded derived these deathbed functions. It was if he'd been able to undo some of the chalk workings that Ramana Jin had wiped clean from you. Slight one day I walked into office and he was like, Robert, I know how to prove that Ramada Jains definition of the mock veta- functions is true. I was like, oh my God. That's amazing. That's really big news. Turns out that that year two thousand twelve was the under twenty fifth anniversary of Ramana birth. There was a big festival going on all over India about Ramana Jin. He's a national hero there. So we were invited by Shasta university, a modern university that is based in Koumba Chonam in south India. The town that Ramana Jin lived in grew up in Ken was invited to speak about his new work, and they invited me also to give a talk on quantum modular forms, so can and robot head to India. I've been to India many times, but it was thrilling to share this pilgrimage with Robert visiting. Being some of the sites that play an important role in the Ramana Jin story when he was visiting them for the first time I had a considerable amount of work to do, which was hard because I was on anti-malaria medication that was making me kind of a psychedelic state the whole time I was there. So like I was there the Ramana Jim, the Conan, the Hinduism's whole thing was all swimming around. I was having extremely surreal experience. A magic him walking through ruins and temples in India, soaking up the brilliant colors, the smells and the people. This is component. It's a town of one hundred thousand people, maybe a few hundred thousand people, but it still feels like a village if feels like you're in this beautiful tropical jungle. It is a sacred city in south India filled with temples. It's called the temple city. The temple that is just down the street from Ramana Jin's child at home. It's about like a block away from his house. It's this beautiful, really int- the painted structure builds from rocks that were brought from the north by elephants like two thousand years ago that reach. I don't know five, six hundred feet into the sky. These giant stones are now blackened with age engraved with crazy ancient alphabets that people don't even recognize anymore. And as you here at the top of this temple, you can barely make out the intricate carvings and the very, very top segment of it, and they'll be eighty hundred bats flying routes ruling around the top and all the while you hear the rhythmic drumming of the drums that the Hindu monks are chanting to from the inside. And suddenly the sound has dropped away. There are so many thick walls of stone between you in the modern world, and you're walking into a space that's thousands of years old just to walk from your modern life into an ageless space like that feels extremely mysterious and deep grimala Jen experience this every day. As I went into his temple, I looked around at all the patterns and designs and a thought like I was really inside culture of Infinity. Indian religion is not a religion of one God or a handful of God's like the ancient Greek mythology or something. It's a religion of almost infinitely many shapes and forms of their deity. The sense of blossomed, Janine glowering things hopping infinitely fractions ranching off this built into the architecture of Hinduism. And if you look at Nate, aren't tapestries Harding painting all of these Dita's zoom in, you see all of these little everywhere. You look, it's covered. And everywhere you look bustling animal glowers and everything like looks like sort of a simple pattern as you zoom in. You keep seeing the same pattern repeating, but with more variety and the right, and as you zoom zoom in zoom zoom in, and then you're on the level of the Infinity. The infinitude of frontal details all around and Indian culture. I believe that that gave Ramana gen a sense of comfort with infinite detail. So I think that the infinite variety of deities and patterns in the art and everything else must have calibrated his mind to be able to somehow feel absolutely at ease with the clutter, and the chaos of the crazy mathematics that he started to think about. These were things that western mathematicians and everyone thought about before they're still struggling with simple aspects of Ramada rushed ahead and pulled in thousands of new crazy patterns that nobody had even looked for before because there were so blinded by the noise and he was able to look through the noise being perfectly comfortable with it. It's kind of like in the nineties, we had that magic. I art see this crazy complicated pattern. But if you stare inside, it's suddenly it's a wheel floating in with a heart. Or something. You know what I mean? I think you would see that. I feel like Ramana John was looking into the noise that he saw in mathematics, and he was able to look into it and blur his eyes and see into the distance and see three d whales that was floating. And certain level, maybe just certain months, mathematics becomes something different to what you study in school. Fuel wrote timetables and Hazel memorized formulas and something creative closer to an IT precedes something into woven with all of your lots of the passions, all of which informed the way you think about numbers. And that's it. Really, you kind of scape the influence you life has on what you choose to do with it. Context is everything. So you might as well make the most of. Mathematics is like music. It is a self contained universe of its own. When I'm writing songs when a making music most of the time, I'm actually not making any sound at all. I'm just thinking, I'm listening in my head to arrangements develop into songs that I'm writing and I'm thinking of lyrics made them writing down in my notebook, but it's largely silent and internal process. When I'm in the studio, I'll hear that world that I had sort of imagined coming out of the speakers and connect really magical way because it's overlapping with the world that's ready inside my head. You're suddenly physically able to reach into the world that was previously only mental. Mathematics is pure. It's free from the physical world. There's constraint. The mathematics is like hearing the music in your head. It's a fully self contained universe and you have access to in your imagination. And we only know a tiny little piece of it. Think about the set of all possible sounds like an ever be made anywhere by anything and think about how small music theory is compared to that. And that's what the math that we practice is like compared to the math that's out there, it feels like there's a universe of all possible mathematics, and we know this tiny little piece that we've been able to find. And that's something you see, look off into the distance in your imagination, and you can see that that's there. You can see off in the distance fading away these horizons that are beyond what you could possibly know reach. Some of all parts is produced by me Jolan. So if you story Jonathan websites headed, and the sound is on by me and my Don with thanks to mighty relative work on an early version of this episode robot Schneider, and professor Kano a mathematician at Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia special, thanks to rub span mate and partnering crime. Ben falen for a super interesting phone call. I, I started working on this story Ben and Robert wrote an account of robots trip to India online magazine the believer. It's excellent, and you should read it. Ken was an associate producer on the man who knew Infinity, which is a feature film about the life of Ramana, Joe, it's also excellent and you should watch it getting touch. If you've been touched by a number soap at ABC dot net that I, let's make some stuff, but until then that's it. Thank you so much to Joel into some of all parts for sharing that episode with us. And congratulations to rubber Snyder became Dr Robert Schneider last April. Some of all parts brings you extrordinary stories from the world of numbers, and there are more where that came from find some of all parts at ABC dot net, dot AU, slash soap or some of all parts wherever you get your podcasts and look after the new season of some of all parts coming up later this year, undiscovered is back next week. Do you hear the host of future at heart, a new podcast by target and WNYC creative about people and organisations were fighting for a better future on future at heart will travel across the country to meet people who are doing the work that changes. Communities change comes in many forms, and we'll explore that by talking to everyone from a cooking teacher with edible schoolyard NYC to a coach, building new soccer place bases with the United States, soccer foundation, those stories and more on future at heart, download it wherever you get your podcasts.

Robert Robert Ramana Jin Dr Robert Schneider Ken Ono India Joel Werner Ramana Ramana Jen Ramana Jin Emory University Ramana Jim Robert Schneider Ramana Jen producer Ramona New York City United States Ramana JR Ramana Jones
Sum of All Parts - The Infinite God

Science Friction

25:46 min | 1 year ago

Sum of All Parts - The Infinite God

"This is an ABC podcast. Hello, welcome to science friction its culture and science with extra spice. Some, the Tesha Mitchell gripe, spicy stories for you this week in next. We are showcasing a deliciously adventurous podcast from ABC science. It's called some of all parts or soap that's nickname. And it's host while I would say Joe Werner, you are a man of many obsessions and music has to be Scholley one of them. Yeah. Music's definitely up there. And while some vol- parts is a show about numbers. I think numbers and mathematics in music is so interwoven that occasionally it ends up being a bit of a music podcast as well. And that's definitely the case with the story with featuring today. Yeah, it's a shy with really rhythmic pulse often because you do beautiful sand design and at the heart of this story is a genuine, rockstar. Who discovered an obsession himself, kind of mid Korea robot Schneider is huge in India Saint so it means that, that's not so huge. But he, he is a big deal in the right circles. And he kind of walked away from this very successful music career to focus on an obsession. He has with mathematics. Let's take it away. Robert Schneider was the last person that can Ono expected to hear from all my gosh, I'd known about Robert Schneider, through his music, Kenza, mathematician and professor of number theory at Emory University five years ago, I got an Email from this Robert Schneider, saying that he wanted to pursue a PHD in number theory, which for me is crazy. Robert is a rockstar. He's a lead singer of the band apples and stereo. You know, you don't usually look for graduate students from a pool of Rockstars. I thought it was the craziest thing that this man in his early. Forties wants to put that career on hold, and pursue a career in mathematics. So this all starts when a crate turns up at rub. It's recording studio. It's like the kind of crate, you seen old cartoons where they'll be like a kangaroo that's being shipped across the of the kangaroo breaks out of the crate, and like wreaks havoc. Old. On the kangaroo gets confused for a mouse, or something like that. You know. And it was an old school would create we had to use a crowbar to open it. Five of that mouth, it was very romantic. And when we opened it in the box fell aside, there's the most beautiful antique tape machine we put it in place, and the first time I used it. I realized that this was the perfection of tape machine recording technology. Probably of all time as good as tight machine sanded it had a problem, it would constantly blow out these things called diodes and electron it component. And this was like the achilles heel of this particular tape machine for every one day that the tape machine worked, it would be broken down for two days to start with the band. Got a local audio engineer to come in and repair the machine. But then today's later he had to come back. He fix again. His look, I think this is just gonna keep happening Robert you're going to have to learn to fix this yourself. And so in the haze of just being sort of a lo fi punk rock hippie recording artists suddenly had to learn about Electroncs and so. I went to radio shack, and I bought this book called basic electron IX and open the book up and on the first page, I opened to right in the middle of the page, there was this equation called Ohm's law and owns law is the fundamental law of electron IX, basically, it's an equation, that describes the numbers Hal electric city flows, and it's so simple has three things in it with an equal sign. And when I saw this law on the page, it completely blew my mind because I realized that moment that everything that I thought was important. Everything I had tried to do that was beautiful, all of my friendship friends that I had traded muse live music listening to the radio into records tame courting onto the tape mission microphone, liquoring light red lights flashing. All of this stuff was existing against the backdrop of the simple mathematical equation. And it's not just that my brain was an electrical system. My thoughts and my mind somehow were being supported by this equation. And like I'm in my studio and I'm at the microphone like we are right now and you speak into the microphone and your voice is transformed into electricity and it goes through all of these circuits and stuff and comes back through the system, it's my headphones and it's going back into my ears and there it's transformed back into the electrical impulses. And it goes back into my mind. If this crazy loop of electricity that our entire existence is completely wrapped up in and all of this stuff was contained in a simple equation. That was just our bre on a page, my memory of that moment is that there was like lights shining, down through the ceiling onto golden light like in those renaissance paintings, like, really felt like that. It felt like there was no ceiling or sky above me, just like Infinity, like pouring down this light on me onto the page. It was very dramatic feeling. After I had this sort of pithy with the tape machine, I was extremely enamored of mathematics instantly, so robots to teach himself mathematics and the whole time. This was happening. I'm in the touring band making records and I'm in studios all of the time and also a dad, so in sort of the frenzy of life. I also was trying to sneak time whenever I could to learn about mathematics, and work on these ideas, Robert would be backstage hid deep in a textbook on a break in the studio scribbling away in one of these notebooks but being Museau with the maths obsession is kind of a solitary pursuit, no matter how many degrees of separation he went away from me. I didn't even the one other person that was interested in math. Maybe like if you had a day job. But then your hobby was that you are a solitary lumberjack and you'd like drive out into the wilderness, miles and miles and miles away from any other human being and with chop down trees being like a self taught mathematician, not knowing anybody kind of feels like it's that isolated like you really are doing this thing that it doesn't. Connect anybody else. Like cross fade, the volume slowly down roots music, career, and mixing with this new noise, number theory, mathematics started to infiltrate the music that Roe was making like he's not tra- logarithms to develop this thing called a non Therrien scale hearing pace composed in his scale now, essentially, it's a brand new musical scale, with new notes set at intervals that aren't found in the chromatic scale, we all know and love this intrigue, the mathematics community and Robert was invited to give lectures on music and maths at universities and colleges across the US. And it was one of these trips that emit can earn. Oh for the first time I am a professional real live research, mathematician, which means that I spent a lot of time thinking about numbers deep in the wilderness. Robert ran into another lumberjack. Cans really enthusiastic. He's very high energy. He's kind of far out. He's a fast thinker can remember leaving and feeling like I was flying on math. Like it was the first time I had engaged in such deep math conversation with anybody. And he ended up having me in his office for like an hour and a half. And it was a really, really wonderful experience for me. So Kenan robot heated off, for a whole bunch of reasons, but a big part of it is shared obsession with a mystical Indian mathematician, who's been dead. For almost a century, Ramona gin much of my work, believe it or not is informed by a man named Romana Jin. He is quite an amazing figure really he is kind of like an incomplete profit in the world of math. Once you hear about some mathematicians Ramana Jains name is it comes up, if you don't know anything about mathematics, will, you know about Isaac Newton, everybody knows who he is either. Maybe like iron Stein. If you go one layer in so you say have heard about people like oiler and gals. Then you also know. About Ramana jn. He's very famous in mathematics, but it's like being famous indie music. If you've never heard of pavement, there's no way you'll ever hear of them, but they one level in. So if you know what indie music is then, you know who pavement is. Similar in that like the do know about pavement, then, like you really know about pavement do not obey, and let's have a casual fan, right? Like you have. If you've gotten that far in, then you're too far in. Born into poverty in the south of India in eighteen eighty seven Ramana Jin had almost no formal training in mathematics and yet still over the course of his lifetime. He came up with thousands of mathematical formulas because he thought they were gifts to him from his Hindu goddess, goddess NAMA Geary at night in his sleeping dreams, or when he was meditating in his temple his family's goddess with come to him, envisions and would touch his tongue with her finger and write equations on his tongue, just how reminded and came up with these formulas one of the biggest mysteries in mathematics beyond the folklore of goddess riding on his tongue. He left behind. No trace of how actually derived any of these work like I said reminded him was born into a poll, family and paper was expensive. So he did all these calculations in chalk. On a slight wiping the slate clean. Izzy wind. It was only when he got to the final formula that he transcribe it from. The slate into a notebook. He presented his work without any proofs is just a list of questions. Nobody could make heads or tails of it in his era. And for the last hundred years, mathematicians have been trying to work out what Ramana JR and did. And to prove his work Ramones into work is all about unlocking, the infinite about taking what most of the sink of is inconceivable and making it more noble. You found ways of taming extremely complicated numbers, so that you would never be afraid of them at all as I looked into Ramana, Jen. I found that his story really spoke to me. He was a self taught mathematician. He didn't have access to education hit, in fact, dropped out of college. This inspired me to realize that you could take the sort of self motivated, nonstandard path towards mathematics. That's more commonly the way that artists go about it. I saw him as being the model for the kind of genius that one might aspire to, you know, Vermont was the mathematician that provided me with the model of. How is all that mathematics should be done? Flash forward a couple of years, and I had decided that I was going to drop out of the music scene stopped touring, and go to graduate school. And if I'm going to do that I should probably do it now. I'm like forty until, like over the course of a year or so pulled myself out of the music world. This is huge robots. A rook star music is he's in tile life. That was sort of a weird, you know, is a great time. It is weird time to I almost had like an identity sort of. Dissociate of few a little bit where you have, like people leave town and change their names and moved to a different place and take on a whole new identity didn't have that going on. But I felt a little bit like that was going on, because there was no crossover between my music life and my math life. And it's pretty obvious who Robert's going to want to oversee this crossover rut, he visited me at Emory University, and he came armed with notebooks. Couldn't believe it just like Ramana Jin had notebooks. You must have one hundred of them by now Ken was grilling me to see. I was acceptable as a student for him. And the. It wasn't just me coming in as a well known musician with a math hobby. It was like me coming in as a potential person he would work with. And it had a different flavor to it the level of energy in the room who needs nuclear power. If you have someone like rob Schneider, he said, I don't know, a lot of math, but I love beauty. And I see that there is art in mathematics, and I wanna come study with you at Emory. We went through his notebooks. I saw flashes of genius, and we took a gamble on him because a lot of the qualities that I seen Ramana Jin. I see in Robert Robert's completely unconventional in his thoughts. And, you know, he is produced some of the most beautiful formulas that I've seen in the last four or five years, left, that time, it was more than flying on math. I was in like orbit, you know, like it was such a great feeling. It was a very inspiring and exciting moment for me. As I left the building, my wife, pick me up. And she tells the story is that I got in the car, and she looked at me, and she said, I had never looked so happy. And she said to me, Honey, you're going to Emory, orange you and I thought about it for a second. And I was like, oh my God. She's right. I have never felt this happy in this kind of conversation about mathematics with anybody on science fiction here on VCR in on Jolan with a some of old pots special, it's the story of rook Stott and mathematician, rubbish NADA. So Robert packs, up his house and his family and he moves across the country to do a PHD with Kane ONA and soon after Kim has a breakthrough this is a huge result, and it's all to do with Ramona Jin's most mysterious work a mystery the left of the world from his death did. But to try to understand it, we need to put it in the context of end of Ramana jen's life. So quick recap Ramana jn had been collecting these formulas that would gifted to him any sleep. Goddess riding on his tongue. And after a while he starts sending these ideas to prominent mathematicians from all around the world now Ramana jn doesn't show any working, right? So there's no way to figure out how he even derived these ID's. So all these academics, they pretty much just ignore him. Except for g h hardy a number theorist, Cambridge University, g h hardy was this amazing super mathematician of his era. Ramada cinema letter filled with mathematics, hardy was like I've never seen anything like this. It's so crazy that it has to be true Hoti was running on a gut feeling invited Ramana Jin to come to England to study with him at Cambridge, and for a period of five years in the mid nineteen teens when England was in the midst of this bloody World War, Ramana Jen prove some of the most astonishing formulas of the day during his time at Cambridge Ramana and struggle to adapt to English culture in. He found the food strange and difficult to stomach frequently seek, but doctors couldn't figure out what was wrong with him, and eventually, the constant illness got too much. So he returned to India in one thousand nine hundred nineteen hoping to return to good health, but he continued to do his own research. And in January of nineteen twenty he wrote to his collaborator g h hardy in Cambridge and this letter begins dear hardy. I'm sorry for not writing a single letter, but I've discovered this most wonderful theory, and he goes on to list examples of functions. He calls mock veta- functions. And for the next ninety years. Nobody knew what he was talking about. And this is very mysterious. He sent it in a letter just a few pages long. So he didn't put any more information about it. But he indicated in the letter that he had a theory. And then the next letter Amman that hardy got said that Ramal had passed away. Remond engine died. Unfortunately, at the age of thirty two long before he was able to explain all of his ideas to hardy, and the other mathematicians, and so all that was left was the single letter that had a couple of examples. Nobody had any idea how Ramada had come up with them. And so these bizarre functions that reminded and dreamed up in a fever. One imagines on his deathbed turned out to be a huge subject of study and intrigue in the twentieth, century. And this was kipnes big breakthrough. He figured out how reminded and derived, these deathbed functions it was this. If he'd been able to undo some of the chalk workings that Ramana Jin had wiped clean from you, slight one day I walked into office. And like Robert, I know how to prove that Ramada Jains definition of the mock veta- functions is true. I was like, oh my God. That's amazing. That's really big news. Turns out that, that year two thousand twelve was the one hundred twenty fifth anniversary of Ramana birth. There was a big festival going on all over India about Ramana Jin. He's a national hero there. So we were invited by Shasta university. A modern university that is based in Koumba Chonam in south India, the town that Ramana Jen lived in grew up in Ken was invited to speak about his new work, and they invited me also to give a talk on quantum modular forms, so it can rub it head to India. I've been to India many times, but it was thrilling to share this pilgrimage with Robert visit. Tting some of the sites that play an important role in the Ramana Jin story when he was visiting them for the first time I had a considerable amount of work to do which was hard because I was on anti-malaria medication that was making me kind of be in a psychedelic state, the whole time I was there. So, like, I was there, the Ramana jn, the Conan, the Hinduism's whole thing was all swimming around. I was having extremely surreal experience. A magic him walking through ruins and temples in India, soaking up the brilliant colors, the smells, and the people. This is component. It's a town of say one hundred thousand people, maybe a few hundred thousand people, but it still feels like a village. If feels like you're in this beautiful, tropical jungle, it is a sacred city in south India filled with temples. It's called the temple city. The temple that is just down the street from Ramana engines child at home. It's about like a block away from his house. It's this beautiful really int- the painted structure builds from rocks that were brought from the north by elephants like two thousand years ago, that reach, I don't know, five six hundred feet into the sky. These giant stones are now blackened with age engraved, with crazy, ancient alphabets that people don't even recognize anymore. And as you here at the top of this temple, you can barely make out the intricate carvings and the very, very top segment of it, and they'll be eighty year hundred bats flying around swirling around the top, and all the while you hear the rhythmic drumming of the drums that the Hindu monks are chanting to from the inside. And some Lee, the sound has dropped away. There are so many thick walls of stone between you and the modern world and you're walking into a space. That's thousands of years old, just to walk from your modern life into an ageless space, like that feels extremely mysterious and deep grandma experience this every day. As I went into his temple. I looked around at all the patterns and designs and a felt like it was really inside a culture of Infinity. Indian religion is not a religion of one God, or a handful of God's like the ancient Greek mythology or something. It's a religion of almost infinitely many shapes and forms of their deity, the sense of blossomed Janine glowering things, hopping off infants branching off, this is built into the architecture of Hinduism. And if you look at Nate aren't tapestries Harding's, eating all of these details zoom in you see all of these little everywhere you look it's covered. Our tents and everywhere you look bustling, animals trees, and glowers, and everything looks like sort of a simple pattern and as and you keep seeing the same pattern repeating, but with more variety. And, and as you zoom zoom zoom in, and then you're on the level of the Infinity. The infinitude of Fratelli details all around and Indian culture, I believe that that gave Ramana gen a sense of comfort with infinite detail. So I think that the infinite variety of deities and patterns in the art and everything else must have calibrated his mind to be able to somehow feel absolutely at ease with the clutter and the chaos of the crazy mathematics that he started to think about these were things that western mathematicians had never even thought about before, they're still struggling with simple aspects of Ramallah rushed ahead and pulled in thousands of new crazy patterns that nobody had even looked for before because there are so blinded by the noise, and he was able to look through the noise being perfectly comfortable with it. It's kind of like in the nineties, we had that magic I art and see this crazy complicated pattern. But if you stare inside it suddenly it's a way, oh floating in with a heart. For something. You know what I mean? I think you would see that I feel like Ramana, John was looking into the noise that he saw in mathematics, and he was able to look into it, and blur, his eyes and scenes of the distance and see three d whales that was floating. Certain level. Maybe just a certain mindset, mathematics, becomes something different to what you study in school. Fuel wrote timetables, and Hazel memorized, formulas, and something mold creative closer to an RTC precedes something into woven with all of your other passions, all of which informed, the white, you think about numbers. And that's it really kind of scape the influence your life has on what you choose to do with it. Context is everything, so you might as well make the most of it. Mathematics is like music. It is a self contained universe of its own, when I'm writing songs when a making music most of the time, actually not making any sound at all. I'm just thinking I'm listening in my head to arrangements, develop and two songs that I'm writing. And I'm thinking of lyrics in writing down in my notebook, but it's largely silence and interning process when I'm in the studio, I'll hear that world that I had sort of imagined coming out of the speakers, and connect in really magical way because it's overlapping with the world that's ready inside my head. You're suddenly physically able to reach into the world that was previously only mental. Mathematics is pure. It's free from the physical world. There's constraint the mathematics is like hearing the music in your head. It's a fully self contained universe. And you have access to in your imagination, and we only know tiny little piece of it think about the set of all possible. Sounds like an ever be made anywhere by anything and think about how small music theory is compared to that. And that's what the math that we practice is like compared to the math that's out there. It feels like there's a universe of all possible mathematics, and we know this tiny little piece that we've been able to find, and that's something you see you look off into the distance in your imagination, and you can see that, that's there you can see off in the distance fading away these like horizons that are beyond what you could possibly know reach. Robots nada. He such alive was so season. Two of some of all parts has landed folks. Joe win. What's up? I the first episode is another music story, but this time it's a story about out very human. Compulsion to move bodies to the bait. Let's hear ties as humans. We have a natural tendency to entrain to regulate. So if it's just a. There's a fair chance. We may wanna start topping our foot along with it. But in the end could be August is actually a little bit boring. Having just a steady bait going through everything. And how the story is a really great yon about Radiohead. And I love how as the episode landed righty, oh, head launched this whole Beck has log of one of their albums. Joe it kind of got a bit lost when one of the greatest volts in music, his treaty, they got unleashed onto the world, but it was a great coincidence. And yet Radiohead really gives us an insight. Surprisingly gives us an insight to the ancient roots of this kind of compulsion. We have to rhythm. Thanks, joe. You can catch some of all parts in new podcast fade worthy. Get you poed cast or ABC. Listen up catching wake by you've been listening to an ABC podcast. Discover more great ABC podcasts. Live radio and exclusives on the listen up.

Robert Robert India Ramana jen Ramana Ramana Jin Romana Jin Ramana jn ABC Joe Werner Ramona Jin Emory University Robert Schneider Ramana JR Emory hardy Tesha Mitchell Ken Korea Cambridge Ramana rob Schneider