19 Episode results for "Quincy Pond"

Jrue Holiday Trade Rumors With Scott Kushner and the Knicks' Future With Mike Vorkunov | Group Chat

The NBA Show

1:05:13 hr | 2 months ago

Jrue Holiday Trade Rumors With Scott Kushner and the Knicks' Future With Mike Vorkunov | Group Chat

"Hello and welcome to group. Chat the ringer's weekly nba group discussion. Where we talk about. How the only thing that could bring this nation together is an nba trade rumor. I am justin barrier joining me today. John than sharks. I mean a weird data talk basketball. But i guess life goes on. It does indeed rob mahoney here but does it counterpoint. I mean it will this podcast at the very least it's guest joining us today to talk about said trade rumor from new orleans he writes for. I believe it's now the advocate slash the times. Picayune is that correct. Scott kushner brexit the slash. All dot com. So all the slashes that you'd like to put in there we'll take them all beautiful So we're going to talk with scott today about the drew holiday rumor trade rumor that came down like manna from heaven this morning as we parse through some of these early election results and everything else going on the world weird time to be recording a podcast. Let's just say that upfront. But we're going to do the best that perhaps give you something else to per. Just take your mind off what's going on or just i don't know maybe just clip and save this one for later but we're going to talk about drew holiday up top then mike volkogonov from the athletic. Join us in the back of the podcast to talk about the knicks We'll talk about that and more right after this all right so we have the biggest story in our nation right now according to shame. Sherani the new orleans. Pelicans are openly discussing star. Drew holiday inn. Trade talks in several contending. Teams are pursuing. Thank you to shams for doing this ahead of our recording. Because the past two weeks we've had to scramble just to get the news back into this podcast but scott year there on the ground. Let's start here first. Are you surprised by this report. A know the. I drew holiday the sweepstakes or rumors. Or whatever you wanna call. It has been going on for a very long time. The the idea that now. They're aggressively shopping. Don't really understand what the differences between them you know. Being opened a trading him for particularly longtime it makes me question the motivation of exactly where that kind of prompt comes from for national media. Person wanna put that out. Because i don't think based on anything anyone that i talked to or anything of that nature. There's any material change. It's actually occurred. But they're usually as a motivation behind that report coming out but yeah this is not surprising the lease their most tradeable asset by foreign has been for about a year. So did you expect him to get moved before next season started i did initially and then when they hired standing gundy. I thought that's a guy who would really like to coach. Someone like giralda in that like in that negotiation. I could see him being like you. Gotta give me at least three or four months which route to see what we're doing here And just his exact stained van gundy type of player. He's a lobster be coached. Loves to play defense like Obviously veteran guy like there's so many pieces that connect a drama bay insane van gundy away that jerry and drawing never really connected like. They're two very different types of personalities when it comes to their philosophies on the court so i did expect to kind of hold off a little bit and it turns out what like a week after his press conference. Now we've got this report coming out and usually news. Reports are not followed up by all right. Everything's gonna be fine and then just put the snake back in the gannon. We're all good. I don't makes me now. Think that they he'll probably get move before starting to see whatever that might be especially because we just talked about. I think last week on this podcast and i think a lot of people would also talked about this just as seemed like the nba was going to restart. Its season so quickly that maybe just shaking things up significantly. Probably wasn't the best approach. Rob you wrote about this last week. I mean i guess we shouldn't be surprised considering. All news at this point is is a whiplash just both in the end in the nba and elsewhere but this would probably take team like denver. Maybe the nets we could talk about some of the options later but it would essentially force a team to really scramble to not only get drew in the system but also data makes sense of things if they're planning on playing let's say even if they're playing in january to start with. Yeah i mean it's gonna take some time and some coordination just to get a guy came in for camp depending on how the free agency and offseason periods really play out but this is the kind of player you dangle out there that you quote unquote shop aggressively. I'm trying to think of the last thing. I shopped aggressively for. If not drew but pants maybe flower at the beginning of guy. I mean that's probably nine last sweatpants. Maybe but he's the kind of player you put on the market that you take calls on because he makes sense for everybody he makes sense next almost any guard in the league from any kind of high level competitive team. And even if you're a team that's on the fringe of the playoff hunt. Like you could talk yourself into your holiday. The question is does drew one play for those teams. I suspect not as much yeah. I almost wonder if this type of situation where the market is so bear in with tradeable stars right now and you have a lot of teams position where they only need like that third or fourth high level guy. The warriors for instance probably looking for someone If they wanted to try that second pick the nets might wanna package together. The spencer didn't we would ease. Jared allen's those guys who cares sliver in order to get more veteran guy next to katy and kyrie denver. Obviously he's considering trying to take a leap so the market seems prime for that move. But i don't know what do you think about new orleans position here because if i am david griffin who apparently wasn't watching john king along with the rest of us last night like wouldn't you want someone like drew going forward especially considering how bad that events has been just in alvin. Gentry are well if he wasn't watching last night he's smarter man than us. How food. I think it makes sense because i look at it like this. Pelicans team it's a young team. Ride drew's a much different timetable. And from drew's perspective. I would think he's probably trying to maximizes next one two or three years. He could be a free agent next summer. And i'd be worried. If i was in new orleans that he might just walk so to me. It makes sense to move on from him and bella team around zion the same timetable as while you had the most leverage possible. How long would it take us to get a drew holiday trade needle on the site to get our design team working somewhat likely very likely. Let's i mean it doesn't really matter how much it moves at this point but let's let's get that project in the works. I gotta say the needles are faring. Much better than some other designs. These days i. I have faith in the needle again just like i have faith in the pelicans the pull this off here. I mean well. One thing. I do want to talk about scott. Just because you're you're there like it seemed very pointed when griffin took the job and even most recently at this press conference when introducing stan gundy they never really suggested that this is going to be a rebuilding project like i know that as soon as griffin took the job like he was saying we probably compete now in last year. They definitely signaled like we are going to try to make a run for the play offs and it doesn't seem like the type of place that would want to take that step back or at least optically not concede that they're not gonna compete right now so those things kind of clash if they are gonna trade for someone start here. Would you expect it to be just like a long-term young guy or would they probably be looking to fill more. I mean those those. Those young veterans as albums loved is out there. I don't think they'll go to a supervisor. I don't think you're going to get value back. Get considering exactly what they need. And and how jumbled up their positioning is right now in the last. I mean there's so many teams kinda backlogged right there between six and fourteen that seemed to be able to compete with anyone. That is obviously going to push you their next season nor did i think it really makes much difference to do that. But you also don't go higher standard bank gandhi. You also don't kinda make the moves of getting jj radic. Derrick favors all kinds of things out thinking you're going to win in the near term There were a lot of ways that team could have intentionally been bad last year or at least been super young and had growing pains. They'd loss play mikhael alexander walker lot play jackson as a lot and it would have been fine. They were gonna fire. Alvin gentry almost no matter. What so really didn't like. They were doing things to build it for a playoff team decade and up coming together because of injury or they just weren't good enough whatever might be. Yeah they are not conceding that concept of them being a good team. But i also don't think there's anything really available that you can. Trade drew an immediate like up here winds odd for next season so i do think rookie scale contract. I think a pig is probably best in the cards. I think just where jrue holiday fits in his team. His not only his time line but just what he is. A person like they a more vocal guy to be their later. That was very obvious last year. You don't lose thirteen straight games. That elite of leadership at some level drew's an awesome guy. He is one of the most standup people i've dealt with in the nba. I he is going to be a perfect second or third piece on a really good team. I think he's an ideal fit and a lot of places. I don't think he's ninety. Fit in new orleans right. Now especially with the roster. The happened the position. Scott my question is like if you're trying to get a type of player to fit around on ingram like what kind. What kind of player would you want. Slightest terms of bike the skill set. Yeah i personally think they need a ball handler kind of in the minority in that opinion winning lonzo. Ball's not a real point guard. He doesn't tack enough. You can't need is scared of going to the rim. you don't have that guy. Now do those chris. Paul type of point guards like exists anymore. That's kind of a hard thing to find. I don't necessarily know that's available. But i do. They need like a lead ball handler because brandon ingram. Is that guy in zainal. Insert that guy neither of them kind of command the ball for possession. You don't need the ball on either of them for twenty plus seconds so go get someone who you can believe in someone who's going to scare defenses by the idea they're going to attack the rim get fouled or can hit a three pointer onto bold as a really do either of those off the bounce at least well enough and so you can't play drew in lonzo together in my can for the long term so making getting rid of drew now seeing what lonzo can do in that position and then kind of figuring out what to do with him it. It's just kind of a tricky as they all are. It's a tricky situation. But considering drew's value comparatively to everybody else that they would possibly have them the trade market. It's not really closed. they probably should've traded. You're all day last summer. But that was when i if you remember david griffin was saying. He's a possible. Mvp candidate on the ring dot com. You've got was a great headline for a lot off and drew is able to dominate stretches. We saw the playoff series against portland. He was phenomenal. And there. And there was that stretch after ab and requested this trade and was being you know. Let's just call it what it is being an asshole. Andrew basically took over the team and played really well and games. They shouldn't have won so he has that ability in him. But you cannot rely on that as like you know your best player type of thing. I think david griffin overestimated bad. And i think a lot of gm's would've overestimated the they traded him last summer But i also understand why you needed to experiment. See how he played next design. Gherman this whole nucleus. Yeah and a lot of ways. Drew is the perfect complement. To what new orleans has and probably just not ideal because he almost seemed like his his destiny is to be like the fourth guy. Or just like you're amazing. Like fifth guy so he could focus on reading havoc on defense and doing some stuff on offense. That's more complementary to what you have and so when you have someone like zaylon brandon ingram. Who's gonna want the ball lot and some of these other guys who who need the ball. Drew is great but paying him as much as you need to pay him and almost like trying to build around him seems a little bit more difficult than bring him into what you have existing. His were trying to say is his best. Skill is just as versatility as flexibility and perhaps not as valuable with the pelicans right now as it is with the more veteran team so i guess that begs the question where is probably the best fit for him and like what team would have the most offer new orleans robbed. You have a sense of like if you were running the pelicans right now which team would be your first call. I mean i think. I think you start with the usual suspects. The nuggets the bucks all these teams that have been out there in the ether looking for exactly a player like drew. The question with them is to they really have enough to make it worth the pelicans while like those packages while interesting to people like us because of what they would do for the nuggets or the bucks or teams like that i. I'm not super compelled by them. If on the pelicans like gary harris and will barton and a pick like that's okay. I'm not turning up my nose at it. Necessarily but i'm k. I'm gonna keep a movement i'm onto the next call. I'm investigating. what else is out there. That's where it gets tricky because there are a lot of teams that will want true but how many of them are really in a position to give the kind of offer. This guy was talking about where it's not only a couple of picks or a pick and player on a rookie scale deal who's promising. Some teams are just gonna be out of the running. Like the clippers would be great from basco perspective seed holiday at the on the clippers but they oh draft picks until like the death of the sun to oklahoma city. Like this just not going to happen in terms of the assets. You'd need to get a player. That's good side just kind of looking around teams. I think i think it would be nice to quote unquote young veterans. Like i. i would be nice. How i'm thinking maybe like i'm looking at two guys either. Lover and brooklyn or tyler hero. I though a young guard with some playmaking ability and shoot it. That's the kind of guide want for drew. No i won't tell your in new orleans. I think that'd be phenomenal. Only for my own personal gain. I think he is just incredible. Is electric bill cover. So i'm one hundred percent in on china yet. The all the people you've named there make a lot of sense. There is really a question of where the value is everybody that i've ever talked to and this is going back. Lash sheer at toward the deadline. When the drew trade stuff is picking out griffin. Said he wasn't going to deal publicly when he was obviously listened to offers. And whatever in everyone i talked to that was dealing with was like. They are treating him like. He's a first team all nba player. He's like a all star. Starts the in all star like ten years. He not the the way new orleans thinks of him and the way the rest of the league of and really the way reporters and players think of him compared to the way that is actual are two very different things. It's kind of a. He's got a very interesting little halo around him but he hasn't really been part of a lot of winners. He's never really gotten a lot of personal accolades beyond a couple defense teams and one all-star spot from a good half season and yet this is like a big topic that he might get traded. And it's like. I don't understand why he's thought of as highly as he is other than just like. He generates a lot of respect for the way he plays so. I don't know if that's worth it's other. Gm's necessarily when they start thinking about guys who they've developed and guys who have clearly helped them win to get to a point where they're in contention that stance. He's every bloggers favorite nba player in. Perhaps sir that's true. I mean he's one of my favorite players sue and decca. What scott said earlier is also like a total mench like just prince of a guy so like everyone. I wanna see this guy do well. But you're right. He's weird person to figure out a like what is appropriate value. Because you probably don't have the ben simmons or joel embiid discussion not definitely not now in probably not ever just seems like a lot to give up for him but is michael porter. Jr. too much to give up a really would. Probably i kind of in the range and i would be about fitting 'em. Pj next up brandon ingram and zion considering. How many shots michael porter jr. is going to gobble up. Just may even not being given but just taking them away from all of these people but he would he would be. I think the first player would target because he seems. Injuries probably diminishes value enough. Where you're probably getting in the right range charts. What do you think about that fit. You've made you made a few. Mp j. trade machine visits these days. Do you think like getting drew into denver would make sense for that team and you think mpg as the type of player they should really be targeting i mean. Pj for sure as the most upside. It's just such a complicated question with him. Because you're wondering if denver's trading michael porter now are they getting out ahead of something medically right. You got to worry about that that we the first thing is you've got to see what's his medical situation. Actually i think the chemistry thing is a real concern like whatever team michael porter jr. is going to. It's now his team in his mindedly. Stray like he's not going somewhere else. He's not leaving denver. It'd be a third option. He's leaving denver to be a superstar. So that's a real concern too. I think i'm kind of operating under the assumption to that as some reports have indicated that michael porter is kind of untouchable there that they really want to hold onto. Maybe that's me falling for the nuggets leverage. But i i kind of believe the motivations there in terms of if you're already a conference finalist level team and you have this guy who could turn out to be really good or you could their team that could absorb his downside and still come out pretty well. I think the nuggets. I mean you're all saying goal straight up like five different picks last year trade. Your holiday i would say to if you're trading michael porter and your denver you want someone who can guard. Lebron james right and drew can do that. So that's kind of limits. How much teams give up for him. I think drew is a great defender for guards. Defend your six eight. Six nine superstars either. I looked this up because we talked about this the other day. So last season other than luca. Danni which according to mba stats. Lebron was the player that drew guarded. The most i can't speak till like the quality of that defense. But i thought it was interesting. Perhaps that's just like new orleans is roster construction. They really didn't have someone to throw at lebron. But i don't know if it's out of the question i do think like he could body up people like that and probably gives you more switchable size than me. Think but you're probably right at this. Point is a team like denver. Need to plan for who they're going to have to face in the playoffs are the at that point. He certainly had to guard bigger players. Because the pelicans have not had anybody else defensively for years. I mean guard. Kevin durant in the playoffs. I mean it was quincy pond ex man. we're all l. The pelicans stride for years to get someone to draw not have to cover threes and fours and ultimately they kept throwing him on threes and fours and would basically have to apologize. Postgame be like we're putting an impossible job in this guy. But that's why they're very few playoff things to look at but a played portland was awesome. Because he could guard damian lillard and cj mccollum guys who can really shut down and then when he had to guard kevin durant in the next round like you said last year. He had to guard lebron four times where he got gobbled up owned. Four against the lakers for a reason will there are several reasons but that was hundred. And there's just no real place for him to guard that type that colli and lebron and durant who was probably the separator between any team and winning a championship right so it's a difficult spot. But he is the whatever you talked to any opposing player anytime about drew. Like they just fawn over his defense endlessly. How incredibly strong is for a size and how You locked in is and all that kind of stuff and when you watch the pelicans play defense and they suck at it. You really wonder how you can have one guy. That's that good at defense. And then the rest of the team be bad so it's really kind of a complicated. I think it's a more complicated answer than i've ever really given the time to think about. I wonder too how that player opinion of drew could goose his trademark. It a little bit because he certainly is almost become a meme. Where every player. Who goes on any kind of podcast when they're asked who's the most underrated player who's the best defender drew. Always the guy they name. And if lebron james once jrue holiday on his team all of a sudden the lakers are motivated to move heaven and earth to make that happen. You could do the same exercise for superstar with whatever team. If opinion of him is that high maybe the market even gets bumped up because of that. See that's why i think a player. Gm in brooklyn. That seems to me that the logical destination right. Well yeah. We'll talk about the brooklyn one because that seems like a natural fit so you would. Let's just say that brooklyn throws everybody on the table here. Spencer dinwiddie carsl avert jared allen. We talked about this a couple of weeks ago. So l- avert obviously a good player but again injury concerns there. he's gonna want the ball spencer. Daddy probably like solve your problem. The scott was talking about earlier about having a ball handler. Perhaps it has more upside than we've seen. But then jared allen maybe he overlaps with what. You're getting at center there already with jackson hayes and so you have two players who are clear fits with zairean and then you have dinwiddie. Who's pretty good. So i don't know. I think like in terms of assets. Maybe if you're you're trying to plan specifically about who is good arounds ion is you real. Is this really like the package that we think would be the best. There's there's there's no telling what this team actually needs. They played like fifteen games together on. So we don't know like we asked stan van gundy on his press conference cycle. What did you think zion is. And he's like no idea is like there's so many things that can still be moved around like four or five or a little bit of both. And how can you. I don't think you don't do anything. Because jackson hayes is there. I think that like if you're going to get a player who can play in the nba. Like alan you know. I think that should be part of it. I don't think they need to necessarily worry about their current roster has is with the exception of ingram and zaia. So i think you need to have someone who's not a volume shot taker but someone who is good from the perimeter and someone who can probably help protect the rim when you need to go bigger but other than that. I don't think you can really base anything on what this car roster really has at the moment. I don't think standing gundy has a lot of opinions on it. And honestly i don't know if david griffin is that like married to anybody on there with the exception of those two guys will the. Pelicans almost have like too many guys. Corollary where i like. You're saying ingram's i on those guys you're kind of investing it other than that there a lot of nba level or kind of rotation or fringe rotation level talent. If that's what you're building your mind frame around like this is our team. I think you're gonna drive yourself insane. Yeah i mean. Frank jackson just like didn't play in like i don't know if he's good but the knicks tomorrow against said i think the most terrifying option though is the miami one now it gets a little complicated because drew's player option for not next season but the following season could cut into miami's cap space if they did have dreams of getting honest but if you came to some sort of agreement which i'm sure would never happen in advance of a trade two teams a team talking. But if you if you were to say to him you can't pick that up and we'll trade you. Miami becomes super interesting and i agree with sky. Think tyler herro would not only perhaps be the best player that they get bill. Also the exact guy you want next zion. He's basically like you know you get young. Jj redick and considering how many of those like no limit soldier like cover photoshop's that produce among pelican's fans like that dude is a perfect fit there. Those are deep cuts just showing your age of bid. No limit soldier. A block is hot. My friend is album covers with demarcus and as demarcus. Ad andrew as the hawk is still history franchise. When i think no limit soldiers. I definitely think drew holiday. Yes i gold tank. Man is there. We're forgetting here in. His discussion. Exerted dr core team. That makes sense like we talked about. The lakers is golden state. The possibility possibility like do you think there's a real asset there that make sense that they would be able to trade off so it'd be two things so it'd be the picks would be the big carrot there so you'd want the number two in probably the wolves pick the following year and you have to wonder if new orleans considering how many at the lakers draft picks they have. Is that really like what they're after. Although most of those lakers picks will probably be later in the draft. So if you're thinking about just in terms of value like maybe those look appealing. The big problem is in order to make the money work. You're probably taking on wiggins and so on the one hand like maybe wiggins is the successor to quincy pond next her that they never had on the other hand. He makes an absurd amount of money. And i do wonder if you put him in a situation where there isn't an existing culture where all that like all the good vibes. Steve kerr talking about. Where like oh yeah. We're going to bring out the best of him all of a sudden. He's back to his jacking threes. And just like not playing defense. I mean for the sake of accuracy. I think of wiggins is maybe like the news obviate henry versus the new quincy pond dexter. God's team that. I don't think we've mentioned so far is phoenix. And i don't know what the package would be exactly. But certainly i mean talked about who you know who the sons would wanna see next to devon booker. What type of player drew fits. That mold doesn't need the ball. The time could be a supplementary ball handler and then it becomes a question of okay. What is phoenix giving up. That's a little thornier. And maybe it's like an uber. Aa plus some stuff kind of trade package. Which isn't as exciting. Some of these other ones. But you could do worse. Actually from new orleans to i think that would be encouraging some level that he would want to come. You know the it's got think a lot of guys don't especially considering the weirdness the situation the history the franchise. I just wonder. I mean you guys would actually no way more than me. Is there any scenario in which there's three team way to purchase bradley. Beal ends up coming somewhere. That's the big x factor here ripe. Because that's tradable guard right. I feel like if another team had the stuff to trade for bill. They would do it. And so that makes me think that. Activating the wizards in that way. I feel like that trailer nardi be done. Yeah and you would think if washington gonna trade deal that they wouldn't want drew holiday back so if we're working like at three trade in new orleans both new orleans in washington want want the young assets back to start over. I would assume so it might be complicated. But yeah i mean he's the type of star that's i wonder if teams would save their powder just to go after repeal and so they won't get into holiday inn into those trade talks so it's definitely a complicated situation but we'll definitely be keeping track of this going forward because there's definitely nothing to keep track of otherwise scott. Thank you so much for joining us today. Absolutely you gotta give the people of various story fans very new orleans story. These are all. Nsf w man. i'll give it very. Pg justin story of water told this is after a game. The pelicans were up by twenty. They didn't want a long time and they're up by twenty docking eighty gets his fortieth point with like forty seconds. Okay just turns me. He's like why is this guy still in the game. Like what are they doing. Gets hurt every other game like this stupidest thing i've ever seen like a like district not used to winning like this whole thing. So he goes down. Alvin albinger the middle of his press. Conference that they finally get to answer questions about winning and not about how much they're injured they sought and the and justice. Bob's it and goes so did you. Just keep a d. In the game or thirty smacks because this domeless question. I've ever heard in thirty years of doing his job. He says a stupidest thing of course win the game. We'll win any games trying to win the game. He definitely left them in to get forty. Yeah now i've i've told this this well not the story. Definitely the anecdote. Only because like i'm the only reporter. The alvin gentry has got mad. Every single person in the media is a doors him. And i'm just like you know you did it to somebody last year last year. Now within like five minutes dory apologised you within the with before he leaves the arena insured off. That was one though. Where like i wasn't thinking about what i was saying. And it just kinda came out more tersely than i had like. It was awesome concert. I just remember being furious. I was ready to fucking quit right and walk away from that team. Because they're not winning at all and just like send me back to la. Hey alvin ir both in california. Now we can maybe perhaps like just grab grab a fruit smoothie together gonna wind forty five minutes. That was the a think he's got all. We're gonna take a quick break when we come back. We're going to talk to mike. Voronov of the athletic to talk about the next. This episode is brought to you by microsoft teams now. There are more ways to be a team with microsoft teams. Bring everyone together in one space and a new virtual room. Collaborate live drawing sharing building ideas with everyone on the same page. And make sure more of your team is seen and heard would upper forty nine people on screen at once. Learn more about the newest team features at microsoft dot com slash teams. All right. we're back time for an upbeat story on this weird day. Let's talk about the knicks because only good things go right with his franchise joining us from the athletic Mike voronov what's up man. Yeah the knicks. Are the optimistic part of everyone's life right now. The only thing to look forward to another season of knicks basketball so we talked about jrue holiday up top but other than that scenario i feel like the knicks are one of the more fascinating teams in the league right now on the one hand. They don't really have much in house but they're in this weird state where anything really happened with his team. They have all these contracts. It's like do they bring him back. do they. try to bring in chris. Paul who were they drafting and so i wanted to get your take on this. We'll start from just like from the beginning of this new era so you have leeann rose in there. You have tom tipo. Have you sensed any change with team with the organization like what is life under a lien. Rose regime like so far. Well the pandemic has obviously made things more difficult. I would say. Surprisingly the knicks seem even more tight-lipped than usual which Okay yeah i mean listen. I think they've gone from. They're always kind of neurotic to large degree and especially when it comes to the media. I think we unrolls has been a good fit in the sense that he's known to be very tight lipped So probably that was a feature when he got hired that he can bring that type of attitude mean. Obviously you bring worldwide west who was not known to be very gabby with reporters and i think that they've really tightened the circle in the last seven months. I've lost track of time. Whatever the amount of money have been and so covering the nixon vibe around the next has been even even more everything feels even more Opaque the last few months yes funny. I remember when i'm tip was in minnesota. That was the one team that wouldn't pick tips. Pick tip picks to shamsur woes and like no one knew what they were gonna draft at all so well Yeah i mean look at the the thing. I heard about tapes before he got hired because that one kind of seemed telegraph for awhile. Is that He's gonna be perfect for new york because he gives nothing to the media and he's also very tight lipped so like they are really doubling down on these types of people come into the organization. I mean you can take whatever their competency is and however this works out on the basketball side of things we'll see but they are Yeah they're very much quieter now than they've ever been. I'd say yeah i've always said the approach some more visions take a real like how you view. It really depends on if they're successful at it. So for instance the spurs like nothing gets out of that team and they don't make trades and the they're kind of closed off to the media but we all think something like magical is going on behind the scenes because they just keep on winning with the knicks. We just assume that it's like you know clowns getting into a tiny car you know or or just like people running on hamster reels or whatever it is but Yeah it's surprising because you would assume that they would go the opposite way just based on the success in track record of of that approach like i remember almost like two years ago. They were making us. Think about more open to the media in. Yeah let's talk and do more stories than that just didn't happen but i guess it only really matters if it trickles down to the team side the biggest question i have is just like do we think leeann roses connections and the cia thing where he has like you know stars. Stars are going to be more interested in the team. Do we think that's going to be real. Do you have any sense of like. If that's playing any fact g you think like that's overblown. What's your basic read. I guess right now what couple months into this whole thing. I think there's a very like goosebumps. Choose your own ending type of vibe to that part of it. Is you talked to some people around the league. They're like okay you know. Obviously you see what the next doing. Leon rose tom thibodeau Worldwide west ties to kentucky programs. All the people that used to have cia right like these are the knicks. Kinda loading up to try to make a play for someone eventually. Probably not devon booker carl towns in the short term just because their contracts have so much time left really is not making a lot of sense but this is them loading up a to make it happen and the other point of view is Maybe it's something. Sure to like a chris paul trade which is a very direct tie because we on rose wrapped them up until february and he's at a different point in his career. I think the basic thing that i need to be thought of as mixer still not a place to be attractive to free agents or two stars. Because they're still bad right. Like i think you can have all the front office executive you want and they hired kenny. Pain is insistent coach who kentucky players love in all that boy got some point. They i wanna see kind of like You know a performance right. They wanna see that things are working before they say. Okay get me to new york. Which has the chance to make like right now. They're not even at the point. I think what the town that they have in house to be able to make a case a destination and i think The next year is going to be that that time where they're like okay. Look here's our proof of concept take a risk on us yeah. They need to establish a baseline for competence. In as we saw with the lakers for instance like that can go very long when you are in a market where everybody wants to go to. Which probably brings us to the chris. Paul conversation so Jonathan mockery of knicks film. School says he last week this week. I can't even keep track of time that. Cpi prefers going to la or new york. I think every player probably preferred that so. I don't know how much stock we can put into that. But i think it's paul. And the knicks pursuit of a pursue or potential pursuit of him is really fascinating window into this team. Because on the one hand you could say they're not good. They need to get better. They need actual players to play good basketball Imagine that but on the other hand you wonder if one way to sell two superstars in eventual superstars that they are competent. That they can like this is a place you can play is to get another star vouch for you and so i do wonder rob. What if you were the knicks. Do you see paul as a potential way to getting there or is this just overblown and what you really need is to do. The hard work of actually getting good players like getting good Just methods for your franchise. I mean what no one wants to hear is that they should probably just do the hard work. Right like the chris paul. Chris paul's great basketball player. I would love to have him on my team. If that's your shortcut to the next nick super team or the next great knicks team. I just don't see how that math adds up per se. What i wonder what paul is. Could the knicks be a destination for an eric bledsoe type in a three team trade. For example. i could you swing deal. Where your ps all the parties there the knicks get a better point guard. They're able to get incrementally more competent on the floor can take the ball out of our hands can give you a sense of structure but without committing tons of money. Like you would. With a chris paul without over extending yourself in that kind of direction. That's kind of where i would lean personally. But as we've seen from the knicks that kind of what they want. I just wonder with paul. He might say. I want to play. They're now but he goes there. They lose like you know twenty straight games. How long's i really gonna last. And then as you go from chris. Paul veteran mentor to chris. Paul i'm tired of these young guys weren't good enough. I'm going to pick them apart and ruined their confidence. That's the issue me because like in oklahoma city right came there. There's gallon nari. Schreuder adams had a full team around him. He goes to new york. They've got nothing they've got like three or four young guys who haven't proven anything. That's that's just a hard. It's hard for me. it's going to work. Yeah that's the great unknown right. Like paul was motivated. Perhaps more than ever last season to prove that not only he still had it but that like he can be on a level of the rockets. Like if you're going to the knicks like you can't imagine that during the next two years of your contract if you're planning to opt into that second year which is a lot of money to turn down if you're not. You're not gonna play competitive basketball. So is there going to be as much motivation to really like. Do like as we said the hard work of like coaching up. Kevin knox of frank ntilikina also curious. What you guys think. Because if i'm looking at the knicks. Like i'm trying to do everything i can to empower. Rj barrett is the one player. I mean we can talk about mr robinson but like the one player who like still be there on my hopeful championship contending team a couple of years down the road here just paul conflict at all with like making him. Your number one option. Your ball handler were using. I think he'd help him right now. Like i don't think bear is there yet where he can. You know have a high usage rate and have an efficient offense. Come out of that. I think just by taking the load off of them. You can stagger men's a little bit if you just want to get him to be the main guy on the four for a portion of the game. I think and get easy buckets from time to time and just help his game overall. Rj is Like a really hard worker. He's an intelligent guy. And i think he'd benefit from playing alongside chris. Paul and i think You know you don't wanna you don't wanna have rj or mitchell obser-. Whoever like play the first three years of their career crappy basketball environment where they're just picking a bad habits and You know if you trade. Chris paul and i think this is the benefit of the leon rose a relationship and the fact that he them for so long as they can probably have a pretty honest conversation before or if trade goes down and you know so crisp come in eyes wide open to what he's coming into new york and what you know the next we want him for. And so if he's up for that and he. I don't want to say like approve. Trade to new york but it sure seems like if oklahoma city trades him he'd have some say in where he goes and so he's not just me like checking his phone one day. Oh i'm going in the next I i think in that case. That'd be a good situation for him. For rj barra definitely from mitchell robinson like the knicks. I think the floor would rise so quickly that you know you could conceivably make be a team that chases the eighth seed next season. But not in a way where you're kind of going all out and getting rid of all your assets just for an empty playoff bush. Mike i'm curious. Where do you stand. Rj last year's loss season. Or where do you kinda see his ceiling being in the nba. It's i read like all the national guys. John holiday for us like everyone else and i feel like i'm a little bit crazy. 'cause i seem to be a little bit more optimistic on rj barrett than everyone else. I think you know like his rookie. Year was obviously flawed. You should look the shooting numbers. The efficiency numbers. They were rough blake. Just watching them night tonight. You know he really showed like he has a good feel for the game. He was competitive on defense. I'm not saying he was a good defender. He wasn't lost. He was physical. You knew how to use his hands. I see i see a chance for him to be a good player. I don't necessarily want to say like he'll be an all-star. I'm not willing to go there. But i team becoming a good player. Who is able to put a portion of the offense on his shoulders and really the key is it. I know it's cliche disabled whereas jump shot goes You know if if it never comes around then yeah. The ceiling gets lower drastically but you know talking some people on the next. They were confident that last you know. They thought he could eventually become like thirty seven. Thirty eight percent Three point shooter which is just a little bit over week average but if he does that i mean i think that'll really open up his game older more and i think just because of his his work ethic and and the way he thinks about basketball. I'm a little higher on him. Then maybe everyone else. It really seemed like he was set up to fail in the sense that you know we're talking about you know we wanna make sure we maximize him as a ball handler. I mean he was over. Maximizes a ball handler last season in a team. Just didn't have the spacing to accommodate it and as rookie feeling that feeling your way through the league in that kind of environment. I didn't really see away. He was going to be successful there during your that said like i put a high priority on things like physicality on the wing rj. As a guy who. I mean he can be a battering ram type player if he wants to be you saw in your one just his ability to push some guys out of his way wasn't finishing particularly well when he got there. But like there's there's a pattern there of what could be a successful player. Almost irrelevant of his jump shot. The question is can you put a team around him that clears the lane for him to do the stuff that he does. Well yeah. I thought what was. Impressive is like he was really good at getting to the to the rim and getting to the line i think he was like ninetieth percentile amongst all wings and free throw rate gordon clean and glass like he did that in an offense. That was really ugly It was difficult to get there. Because you get to the lane. There'd be like two three other guys But he what i think would make me optimistic. Is that he you know he kind of expanded his game. As the year went on he started working on like a post up game In the few times where. The knicks eventually went to kind of like a more space. That offense when mike miller took over he seemed a lot more comfortable running pick and rolls and when there is actually room in the middle of the court so those are the things that make me think like as you said if he gets put into offense. That wasn't what the two thousand nine hundred twenty. Next week i think woefully built especially without like him. Or mitchell robinson a minor that there i think that would make me rethink You know just kind of where he goes eventually. He didn't re if you think about you. Think back to the draft ruined saying rj barrett is going to really benefit from being in an mba offense with spacing shooters around them and then like just none of that happened. Yeah it's weird that he got paired with julius randle who almost seems like the model t version of what barrett awfully become so man they really just saddled him with like what snow tires basically church. Where are you on barrett. I'm curious because you probably studied him. Going into the traffic right. My concern with him was always that he's a guy who's always had the rock always needed the rock and it's just like if he's going to be your guy with the ball. How good are you gonna be. That was always my concern with him was just fitting him into a really good team. 'cause like just his mentality article on duke players over the last ten years. Rj took more shots at duke than anyone by significant martian. That'd play with zion williams. I respect rj nineteen shots a game. And it was just like so. That's my concern. My concern is like if rj's your number one. How good are you going to be and can be a number two or number three because yeah had the shot was never really there. The touch was never really there and the things. He's really good at kind of play. Julius randle right like he is getting to the rim. he's got a bully ball. But like if you're fourth best player is good. A bully ball can't shoot and what's what's the fit that's my issue has been the fit around him. Yeah i think all. That's legit. I but i also think like you know. He's a good rebounder. I think he can eventually be kind of a. Maybe an above average defender there. Because of the physicality. I don't know i'm i'm just curious. You like last year was weird in the sense that he is empowered to kind of look for his own shot in creating all that and by the coaching staff and then on the floor he had to deal with julius randle kind of running the offense alfred payton. So is this weird kind of Mixed direction type of situation. I i just want to see what he'd be with with coaching and Kind of a more cohesive type of roster to see what you know what the future looks like them. It's just hard to drive. Julius randle drove into the paint pivoted three times tripped on the ground. And now you're drive over him some. It just doesn't work. Does y'all see that clip of julius kid playing like a six percent basketball from india. He runs over and takes the ball from that was just so perfect. It was amazing. That's the solution right there. Just just grab it out of rj. Bare hands. I mean this is probably a good time to talk about some of those guys around guys than like if we're saying that barrett is probably going to like fail or succeed based on his teammates in the complementary guys her. I want to talk about some of the young guys on the knicks. So frankie smokes dennis smith junior. Kevin knox seems like michelle robinson is like his approval. Rating is through the roof. So he's almost in a separate category but those first three guys are mentioning. Mike when you look into the future. Are these guys still contributing for the knicks or are are is like the jury out and does not look good. I mean. I'm you know. Dennis smith junior. I think might have been the worst player in the nba. Last season he took a dramatic drop off. I think there are a lot of things contributing to but it just it was not good So so good start. It doesn't help that he was kind of the centerpiece of the kristaps porzingis trade. So that didn't go well. Kevin knocks might thing with him. Is like it's worrisome. When your effort is the thing that's kind of in question at all times and comes goes and comes and goes throughout the season and he's explicit about that too. It's like you know hill. He went through multiple ten games stretch last season where his blocks were up. His steals were up. And it's like why did why did that happen. Why is this occurring. And they'll say you know. I decided to give more effort on defense. I talked to the people around me. It's like okay. I get it. That's good but you know this should be like a consistency thing To me ever since he's been a rookie. It's like okay. I can seem becoming a volume score if he gets the opportunity. And maybe a shot you know. I think people are optimistic about a shot and all that but what about everything else. So in the broad in college assistant coach kenny pain. You know the if he gets through this offseason still on the next seems to be foundation for growth for him. But there's a lot of worry some things there. And with frankie no akina. I think i'm i'm much higher. And then everyone else you know. Knicks fans are kind of like fifty fifty split on him. It's more partisan than the election. And you know i think like i see him being eventually a good player. Probably maybe even starting player on a good team The knicks again and is not to rag on the that was just not a good start for him for his career and year like scouts. Say that all the time like you know. Put them in oklahoma city or antonio or like milwaukee or whatever like this is a guy who can defend hit threes do some playmaking just a little bit and he becomes good but i think so much for him is just kind of opportunity and And location charts. Where you on these guys are under these keepers in your mind i. It does kind of seem like nil. Akina knocks our guys on their second or third teams. It just feels like there's a guy need us jump ronald a little bit find their role. I mean they got talent right. They definitely got talent. But it's just a hard new york right because there's no one to play off of there's no structure there's no system it's just. It's just a hard team to land on. Obviously if you're a rookie. That's where even if they don't make us chris. Paul move or something like that or you know they take a swing at fred vanvleet lead. But he doesn't sign. They're like even a placeholder type point guard somebody to give a little bit more structure. I think could go a long way toward helping. Some of those guys find their level like i. I'm probably down on all three of them. Relatively speaking signal akina may be on the higher end of that spectrum. But he he like saying feels if you'll salvageable but maybe not salvageable for the knicks. If that makes there's already so much baggage with his situation the porzingas trade. Being part of that that i i would be doubtful. He really pans out into being a meaningful player for them. And i think by now like you know us drafted to be the point guard phil jackson's triangle and infiltrating i fired six days later and he never got a chance to play point guard and i think it's clear he's more probably of a wing Than he is a point guard at this point. So if you put him like you said Rob around like point guard. Who can do things. And he doesn't have that burden on him He's a smart player and he defends so well that he can succeed in that type of situation. But that just hasn't been and i was kinda surprising that they picked up his fourth year option last year. Just because it's i think about like six six point four million dollars and just i don't know it didn't seem like the nixon we're even investing giving them a chance to prove himself. The first three years. I wonder if the conversation we probably should be having is a tibbs conversation. Then because they're really hoping that he finds something in some of these guys while like he brought out. Probably the best of jimmy butler lease early version. Jimmy butler i guess. New version of jimmy beller is way better but like i mean. You've really are counting on a coach shu knowingly pivot away from young guys and just like prioritized veteran grinders in minnesota and like so. I wonder if like he will make this a question for you. Then like do you get the sense. That tibbs has learned anything his mistakes or are we going to be halfway through next season. Taj gibson is leading the league minutes again. Okay so i did like a very long Probably too long time tomato story early this summer and i asked a lot of his friends. Yeah like what do you think. Went wrong for him in minnesota. What do you think. Tom would say he went wrong. Went wrong form. And the answer. I got from a lot of them was like. I don't know that everything went wrong in minnesota forum. I don't know that he thinks wrong. You know you ask tom that question. And his daughter two or three zoom calls or whatever and he kinda just gives a non answer. So i don't think that he he's really gonna change that much i i don't think he's He's there he's sixty two years old. This is third head coaching job. He said i'd say like a pretty good level of success for sue stops like i just don't think he'll this is going to be like a reincarnated tom. Thibodeau in new york. I think he'll keep doing the things that got him. Success and You know it's kind of on the knicks front office to save them from a self where his weaknesses are. Yeah i mean where do we where we stand on tibbs overall rob because on the one hand i think mike i mean like. He was incredible with the bulls On the other hand like still running a defensive system that probably doesn't fit for the modern. Mba if he can he catch up to the times just strategically or just like can he just changed his preference enough. That there's someone there that could perhaps be what they need them to be. It's tough because in minnesota. He had a pretty good offense. And you know some of. That's you know you put carl towns and jimmy butler on a team you can. You can run a pretty good offense. It turns out the defensive stuff is kind of what worries me. And he needs that kind of mike. D'antoni moment where it's not enough to have the one huge breakthrough a decade ago. Like you need the second evolution of whatever it is you do that fits this new group of personnel. And that's one thing to do around. James harden chris paul like dantonio houston very different thing to do around kevin knox and rj barrett in new york. You know like. I don't know what the reimagined version of a top tiptoe team is. Hopefully we can find out. Hopefully he has that kind of you. Know that creativity and curiosity to find that out versus alicia rollback back same kind of strong side zones. Schemes is what we call them. Same old stuff. It's fine is teams. have been there. And they've seen that they know how to attack it. It's it's a different league. So that i mean that's where i would be concerned for sure just in terms of some of some of the complexity of evolving on some some already great ideas but ones that are now timeworn. Yeah i mean. I think what mike said is good. It's like all these coach. Gm's right none of them really worked. You know doc band gundy. sita's kinda gotta hope that. Gm part kind of ruined the coach part and now they're going back to coaching i to me i'm more worried about leeann. Rose tibbs tibbs who he is is how is leon rose. Going to draft like mike. What you're saying. I'm obviously not talking very much. Like who do you think makes sense number eight. What's the players are looking at. You think you know it's kind of a. It's hard to get a read on them and so far you know the few names. I've heard that they've been linked to her like tires. Halliburton toppin They went to see cairo. Lewis workout in person last week But i don't know it's hard to to know what they're gonna do in the draft. I could see them trade up. I could see him. Stay at eight. I could see him. trade down like i think maybe if there's opportunity to come up and get lamelo ball. I could see the knicks doing that. They do have a lot of picks so they can use their assets if they wanted to make that trade if it present itself but i i don't know i i think really like offense. I think tibbs is more utilitarian than anything else If you can see throughout chicago and minnesota times he just. He sees the talent the skills he has in front of him. He makes it work. I don't know what he's going to do on on defense but you're right like it's going to be on rose to get him players he needs and also to structure that rosser in a way where he can't just lean on the vets like i think it's fair to say like will play rookies if they're really good or young players with the really good. Because he gave minutes to andrew wiggins and karl towns but as everyone else that might get lost along the way so if you're at the gm You gotta you gotta know that and you gotta give him out still like totally bench. Frank ntilikino bench. Whoever the rookie is when the hope to be he would invest more in mitchell robinson than previous iterations of the knicks. Have i mean. There's there's such a backup quarterback thing that goes on with mitchell robinson. I think we probably have him inflated a little bit just because of his crazy efficiency numbers. But i i would like to see him. Be a more central part of the team. And you would hope that you know in a top tiptoe team. He's had some very effective centers in the past been able to utilize them pretty creatively. If nothing else maybe. That's the part that could play in robinson's favor. Do you think he'll do any any like step back. Three pointers like i see from him. Pretty much. Every week of the offseason. That's the primary mode of their offense. I think does he have the highest approval rating the most popular neck of all time. I never seen a bad thing. Said about michelle robinson. The i mean the knicks fans love mitchell robinson which is great. Like he's there. He's like the precious perfect thing in the middle of like this storm right now. Right like he's shooting. You would think he shot seventy four percent from the floor like an nba record like he. Yeah i i don't know but i think there's a very real question to be a conversation to be had about mitchell robson to just because of his contract status but it'll be it'll be interesting to see what if tubes decides to run it back defensively. What what defense looks like with. Not carl towns the center right like i think that could help woman if tinto can help mitchum's and become better defensively to the blocks are great and i think he does a pretty good job of switching out on guards when he's in that situation but i think still real questions about whether he can be kind of like an anchor for defense and and just really make it work that way before like going all in on mitchell rams and futures okay mike. Now that i think about it. I'm looking at the next. We're talking about maximizing mitchell robinson rj barrett. What happened to julius randle. 'cause i just don't see how you can maximize those two guys with julius randle on the roster making a year like how do you square that circle. Yeah that's a good question. I don't have an answer for you. I don't know if the knicks do either. I know that like you know. He's got a year left on his contract and a four million guaranteed for his third year. I know that you know last. Trade deadline You know they kind of had him involved in trade discussions already so they weren't like averse to trading house the the regime that sign them. I don't know. I mean. I kind of think in some ways like he's best as a small ball five. I mean you look at his career. The on-off numbers and just his efficiency like it was his teams play better when he's at the five That's hard to square with mitchum's on there so really they'd have to deprioritize him and part of that. Is you know if you bring in like a a point guard who can take that away from him. I think he played better over the last few months when alfred payton was there and he had a respect for alfred paying because they've known each other awhile and that really kind of You know kept ball out of his hands a little more and made him more efficient in that way so there unless they can trade them they have to put players around him that you know that. Get him to buy in on doing last. Essentially good luck. I feel like now that we're year out from all the signings from last offseason. You can kind of look back and say you know. Maybe it wasn't that terrible for the next like yeah. Things went pretty terrible. Like you didn't get zion. You didn't get any of the free agents you said you're going to but at the very least you have all of salary that worst case you can aggregate together in order to get someone and as we've seen like sometimes that's what it takes. You just need to make the math work. You need to have the right assets in order to make this work. I gotta say giving julius randle a fully guaranteed second year and just like a partially guaranteed third year. May those terrible. Because i feel like his future might be is like just bowling ball. Jamal crawford jamal crawford with just like a fat suit on now does it. He's he's just he's definitely bulkier but because like i don't know i don't really know how else you fit him into a winning environment and on the other hand like i feel like this is what we say about every player. We don't know what to do with like yeah. He scores points spot on the other hand. Hold just completely wreck your entire team every other way so i agree with what you guys are saying. I just. I don't see a future there and i also don't see a future with tibbs after like you as julius randle to switch onto someone like like i fear for his health and his safety. You know what i mean. I feel like over the last couple of weeks of this pod. We've made an all jamal crawford team like rose in mid post jamal crawford. Julius randle bowling ball jamal crawford. We're we're really kinda flexing out that jamal crawford bunch here jamal crawford good. I like jamal crawford player. He's another for sure. Member all star. Yeah for sure We'll sharks we've are up the draft here Where do you see them going. Because if i'm looking from like just a a a broad sense just like i don't know anything about the draft. It seems like they can go anyway. That's an advantage and a draft. Where like there isn't a clearcut one or two best is the thing is fast about the next draft klay. Think i'm not sure who will be there at eight but looking at the guys who might be if you're trying to maximize rj barrett tires. Halliburton is like the perfect guy next to rj. He's a big point guard doesn't need the ball gives you structure can guard can spot up. But that's maximizing rj the questions of killian hayes. There this guy he's koa number one player. He's a really interesting young point guard but he needs the rock if draft. Kilian hayes him. rj are. They're both want the ball. That could be really really tough. So that becomes a matter of how much value rj as that front office. Yeah if you're gonna maximize rj you have to decide. He's the guy who eventually be a number one option. Right for you i just. I don't think that he's there yet where you're like okay. Needs to be sacrificed to build around rj. Barry and like the knicks have so many So many holes aside from center essentially like they just need to get good players. You gotta best player available. I think like. I don't see killing hayes being an issue for them because they need a good point guard. They need someone who can create offensively anyway because Even if rj does become your number one guy. you don't want him to be alone in that burden You know like Almost anyone to me. I look at draft aside from like weisman and I'm not gonna try to butcher the center from us's name on here But you know aside from those two bigs like fits there because they have so many holes and they have glaring needs at every position other than that things great Maybe that's a good place to stop here then on. Just extreme optimism Mike thank you for joining us. Thanks mike all right. That's it for us this week. We'll be back next week when we'll hopefully have some answers both to win. The nba season will star in. Just perhaps to the fate of the country Until then we will see you.

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NBA Jan. 8 | What You Need To Know

The Free Agents

09:26 min | Last week

NBA Jan. 8 | What You Need To Know

"Am tasks and. This is what you need to know in the nba. For friday january. A first thing you need to know is that luka doncic all right. I was definitely worried. That luca wasn't in good enough shape. Maybe we gonna get an mvp type season from luka doncic this year. He sat out sunday against the bulls. With a quad into contusion. Maybe he was getting himself into shape a little bit but then he's returned to straight games. Triple double in the first one and then the second one on thursday night in was definitely the game of the night. If thirty eight points thirteen assists and nine rebounds who cares about the nine turnovers in a real great head to head matchup with nikolay yokich of the denver nuggets and it looked like the mavs had this one when luca dutch found maxi cleopa for jumper with three seconds left in the fourth quarter but nickel yokich wrapped up a seventeen point fourth quarter little sidestep on the baseline can't double that jumper over willie collie stein sending it to overtime nico at thirty eight points himself in overtime. The mass prevailed got enough. Josh richardson hit a couple of shots. He had fourteen points on the night. I was worried about this mavericks theme coming into the season would they have enough without kristaps porzingis to supplement luka doncic schwebel lucas. Just good enough and he gets enough from his teammates to win basketball games and good news for the dallas mavericks. Who said at four and four kristaps porzingis is traveling with the team. No timetable on his return but they do need him just to help out luca a little bit but they're treading the three and five denver nuggets little bit. They were gonna be fine. Sorta like the mavs. Because they've got a superstar nikolay yokich at the helm but it would be nice to get michael porter jr. back the second year player. Who's been playing really really well inserted into the starting lineup. For the first time was supposed to be back with the team on thursday after a seven day quarantine period because of contact tracing then on thursday. The athletic sean. Sharon reported that. Michael porter jr. is going to have to quarantine ended an additional ten to fourteen days. What the heck happened. I assume who's speculating. But michael porter. Jr. wasn't careful at some point during that seven day quarantine periods meaning. He is going to have to quarantine an additional nearly two weeks which could mean that he's going to miss ten straight games a big chunk here a four michael porter jr. and the denver nuggets. Hopefully michael boorda. Junior is fine and he has been playing really really well but it does stink inserting him into the starting lineup. Were he had to learn the defense event. Hopefully the nuggets can get him back as quick as possible because these quarantine periods although there being reported as a certain amount of days in game sometimes they get shorter. Sometimes they get longer. Hopefully it's on the shorter end for the denver. Nuggets game was phenomenal. But the first game of the tnt double header was disappointing. Attuned tuned in was very excited to see the nets in there. Tied is from the ninety ninety one season looking good first piece of news. I hear when i tuned into the broadcast. Kyrie irving is not with the nets and they don't know where he is. Apparently steve nash head coach. The nets texted him. No response from kyrie irving than we later. Learned from jove are the athletic that he did text his teammates pre-game he is fine but he's dealing with a personal issue and he's also going to miss the team's next game friday against the grizzlies. I don't really think it's a big deal in the locker room. I think this will just float by. And it won't be a huge deal of kyrie. Irving is communicating with his team on. The other side was also disappointed. That seth curry of the sixers wasn't gonna be playing. He had an ankle injury on the bench. Seventeen points per game sixty from the floor sixty from three picked as my under the radar guy to score fifty points next He has been having a great season a career season. He's sitting on the bench we later. Learn according to walsh who is a reporter that now has to do contact tracing tracing emmys on the bench and woes reports that at the end of the first. He left the bench because he was told he. Tested positive for the corona virus. And i say that reports are gonna do contact tracing tracing 'cause woes with the with the report breaking down. He was sitting beside assistant coach. Sam cassell and then when joel embiid came out of the game dwell sat beside him. So hopefully everything is good in steph curry's world and it wasn't for the philadelphia seventy sixers in this game. They went into brooklyn with the best record in the nba. Seven one but that's deep and curiously vert. Got the start because carries out. Katie is out due to contact tracing spencer. Dinwiddie is out at twenty two points and ten assists joe harris who was on the bench to sort of balance the unit. I believe stephen ashes is doing that. He had twenty eight points off the bench. That's coach steve nash. Big game for joe harris. Will the seventy sixers sit at seven and two while the nets are now. Five and four spurs. Visiting the lakers. I told you the spurs were exciting citing. The young guys great popovich is down with the kids. They go into los angeles. Lakers are wearing these throwback blue jays themselves not much a fantasy to blue for the lakers in my opinion. Anyway it's the spurs. Were talking about in this one. They scored the first nine points of the game and then led the entire way. Everybody was having some shoot and fun in the starting lineup hitting threes. Even tomorrow rosen in his hometown. Marcus aldridge though was the guy who led the way twenty eight points for him. His best game of the season by far and the kids having fun around him to shanti. Murray look so frigging good out there. Lying walker is well even devon vassal. A guy out of florida state. The spurs just drafted couple threes off the bench. He could be a steal at number eleven. Patty mills thrown beauty passes. The spurs went into la and won both games against the clippers and the lakers. And that's why. I was a little worried about the lakers. Winning the one seed. Because they're going to get everybody's best shot number one number two. They're just going to be a little bit lax. Not trying to win every single game. Not going all out. I should say every single game. And that's what happened as the lakers weren't playing to their full capabilities. Even the commentators in this game are saying now. Lebron james gonna sit a couple of minutes here. He'll come back. It is a product of lebron's teams. After they won the championship in cleveland. Their defense fell off the next season. Who knows the lakers are good enough to win the one seed. They now sit at six in three couple other games on the schedule the grizzlies in cavs no sex land back court for the cavs. No contracts and no darius garland for them. The grizzlies missing their best players. John ranch jaren jackson junior Justice renslow still out is game. Came down to the wire. The grizzlies detained bayne missed a three pointer to tight as seconds ticked down although in his rookie season. Plenty of threes. And i feel like no dunks. His failed you with barely mentioned that. There's a player named bane in the league. Anyway larry nance junior a great game for the cleveland cavaliers. In their victory he was seventy seven hit four threes eighteen points. One note on him. John hollander pointed out earlier this season. If the cavs are looking to rebuild maybe get some draft picks for their guys. Although they've started the season really really. Well maybe larry nance could be a guy that they move. A lot of teams will be looking at a guy. Like larry nance who is very much a modern day. Big the way. He's shooting the ball out there. Four threes for larry nance didn't really expect that out of his bag. Last game. portland routed. The wolves dame thirty nine points seven threes in the blazers win the wolves number one pick anthony edwards had a career high twenty six points off the bench. It's interesting that he comes off the bench with all of their lack of depth issues. He could be starting. And i wonder at some point does ryan saunders. Throw him into the starting lineup. I know they're trying to balance and trying to be a good team. Karl anthony towns out. There really really struggling all eight games off the bench for anthony edwards to this point last note. There's a g. league bubble. Starting in february in florida. I wanted to mention it because some great old nba names will be there. Lots of vets lance stevenson. Michael beasley jeremy lin. A shamsher on your reported way. Angelo ball will be there as well. Tmz told me that one game Tmz and some other great names emec okeafor. Oh my favorite. Terrence jones quincy pond dexter damon stoned diamond stone. He's not stoned end. Genero jones jerry. Jones i remember that name. It got me in a spelling bee with the starters. Jim j. e. m. e. r. i o. That's a tough one next. Jonathan given for that information all right. We're all done here. Make sure you check out the no dunks full length episode on friday. It's the drop baby got worse of the week. Rapid fire a top five. Come into. I'll be back on monday to tell you the news as fast as i possibly can see that doc.

luka doncic nikolay yokich kristaps porzingis michael porter jr dallas mavericks denver nuggets luca lakers nets maxi cleopa nickel yokich willie collie stein Josh richardson luka doncic schwebel lucas Kyrie irving Michael porter jr larry nance michael boorda grizzlies spurs
Monty Williams, Phoenix Suns

The Woj Pod

41:25 min | 1 year ago

Monty Williams, Phoenix Suns

"Support for wsj pod comes from wicks dot com with which you can create your very own professional website. Choose a template you love and customize it by adding your own text images and videos with hundreds of intuitive design features. You could tell your story exactly the way you want want even more for your website, you can easily start a blog launch an online store or create an event share everything. In a click on social media, and drive you in more traffic to your site with SEO tools to get found on Google wicks has all the tools you need to create the exact website you want. You can even create a beautiful website while listening to this very podcast over one hundred and forty million people choose wicks to create their website. So create yours today, get started now by going to wicks dot com. That's W I X dot com slash whoa, JR. W O J to get ten percent off. Welcome in to another episode of the ch- pod hair Phoenix with the new head coach for the Phoenix Suns. Monty Williams Monte. How are you wo- gem Wellman thankful to be on your podcast and certainly thankful to be a head coach again here in Phoenix? When you wake up in the morning now as a head coach is a whole different burden. What am I gotta get to today, especially when you take over the lots of things you've got to, but is there a different weight on you in the morning when its head coach it is because I have to not only be responsible for the leadership of the team. My role is also to provide for Sistan coaches, and their wives. Opportunities for them to be successful and get their kids set up and, you know, all that stuff, and it's important stuff that we have to do in, it's a privilege to do that. And at the same time, I'm dealing with a lot of guys who want jobs and the toughest part about coaching that we don't talk about is having to cut players that work their tails off, but just aren't good enough. And tell guys know that I can't offer them a job. And so I've been doing that. You know, thankfully, I'm in this position to be a head coach, but, you know, a lot of my time is talking to a lot of coaches and really qualify guys who could help your staff, but I had already targeted a number of guys a few guys that I wanted to come here to Phoenix. And so that part has taken up a lot of my time and then just. My family situated, they're still in jersey. Some of get them down here in June. But that's all good stuff. People knew you interviewed you met a couple of times, the Lakers, you met a couple of times with the sons, and in the end you decide to go to Phoenix, the questions that you had to ask, Robert sovereign the answers, you need it from him based on the body of work in what had preceded you your fifth coach in five years there. What did you need to know from him? What were the questions that you had to resolve in your mind before you would take that job for me? It was always about us, having a partnership, and that was the thing that Mr. server conveyed to me in our conversations and we, we had really good conversations, not just about basketball. We talked about family. We talked about the history of the team, we talked about our personal issues that we've dealt with in our families. You know you had a tragic situation with his son. Musset situation with my family is, you know, unfortunately, well publicized. And so we talked a lot about life. But then when it got down to the things that we're going to make it a partnership for us both of us had to be on the same page. And we both agree that we wanted to work together in a certain way. And at the end of the day, I never lost sight of the fact that it's his team. And, you know, these jobs don't belong to the head coaches in the league, we're stewards over it, you know. But I think the thing that impressed me more than anything was when we had those tough talks, he didn't shy away from it. He didn't blame he'd never through anybody under the bus one time he took ownership. And when he asked me to have questions about my past I tried to do the same. And so we both kind of I think we feel like we're in the same spot because I know that he's he wants it badly. And I have a lot to prove as a coach. And so, I feel like it's an alignment between myself and James, and Mr. Sauber that can hopefully be really successful here for a head coach. When you say a partnership, it's easy, you know, in may and June in the off season. Right. There's no losing streaks. There's no fourth quarter leads alone, Robert has shown to be very emotional and he'll come into the coach's room. He'll come out on the practice floor times. Like you said, it's his team right? Different styles are, but is there like some lines and you sit down with James Jones, your GM, and you sit out Robert, and you say here, just some things that I can't have as a head coach. Do you have to do it like that? I think you have to be clear about your vision in. I laid out what I feel like is the best way to lead these young guys to another level in another level and so forth. And he agree with that. And so that's all I can go off of. And, you know, not one time did he say, you know, I don't like that or anything like that. I think we are building trust right now. And all you can do in any relationship is build equity at some point, I'm going to have to pull from that equity. And if we have the relationship that I believe we will have the trust will be there. And so, yeah, we both laid out visions, he laid out his vision, I laid out mine. And there were things that align. And then there were things that were different that we both agree that we could learn from each other. And so for me, not only did he hire me and commit to me with the years and, and the finances, our visions about this team going forward aligned in many areas in this league you've been in a few different situations, some better than others. In terms of having alignment, you you're in San Antonio is a player and then you're back there. In the front office. You've been in Portland. You've been in New Orleans as a head coach the longer in it. And then obviously Philadelphia the last year, Oklahoma City the longer in it, does it sort of always get back to, if you don't have what you need at the top. It's very difficult to sustain anything on the ground floor in the locker room on the court that you just not gonna win by accident. Sure. Right. Yup. Thank you. Right. Ownership in the leadership of your ownership is key. And we've seen that in San Antonio with the whole family. I've been really blessed to be able to spend time with the patriots and learn from Jack Easterby, who's now with the Texans, and I've, I've watched the Kraft family and how they are in lockstep with Bela check and Brady mall. Those guys are on the same page. They don't always agree. They have disagreements, but their success and their methods were a lot for me to learn from, and obviously being in San Antonio has helped in that situation there. But okay, see the same, you know, having been with Sam and watched him with that particular ownership group. It does start at the top and, you know, like we said earlier, it is their team, and their leadership is, you know, part of what you have to adopt. You may cause you talk to people around the league when you're investigating a situation, you're, you're evaluating them, so you get a sense of the professionalism of the players the discipline how they practice. What habits are. The sense that I had gotten around Phoenix was it wasn't very good. And that there was not a foundation, a baseline of professionalism of commitment. Is that what you found, like is that what has to you? Start spending your summer saying. Hey guys, there's a new expectation to be a Phoenix son. Is that is that what you found? Yeah, I have to be truthful. I think our guys know that of spent time talking to a few of them in the past few weeks, and they all to a man. No, that the professionalism, and the culture has to improve the one thing, I don't want to do is brow beat them on the negatives of especially the things that they know they've heard about me, and so, my reputation precedes me, but I also want them to know that I'm willing to work with them through it because they're young in feel Devon. As an example, you know, he's had a lot of coaches and if I was in his position, my head would be clouded a little bit. And so I wanna be able to walk these guys through the process of becoming a good situation. A great culture and that doesn't mean I have all the answers. That's why I'm in the process of hiring a really good staff either believe that can help nurture these young men because all of them are competitive, the guys that I've talked to Devon being the main guy like that young man wants it, and we tend to we all do this. I believe with these young guys. The league is so young, we expect these young men to know have all of the answers right out the gate. Well, if we're not telling them and also being consistent and showing them. How do we expect them to do it on a consistent basis? Well, this particular team hasn't had that. And so that, that's the goal is to provide them with consistency. And I really feel like these guys wanted in my conversations with all of the guys that I've talked to, they really want to be good and someday. Great mighty. When you say your reputation had preceded you Rupe what do you think that reputation is what do you think they're expecting expecting? They've talked to other players in those guys have told them you. Coach mind is pretty structured, and I'm big on culture. The word family is used a lot. I don't know why we use that in sports because we're not family. We but we can't have a great culture. We can show up on time. We can work hard. We can share the basketball, we can defend and we can have a high care factor. Like those are the things that build culture, some families don't have that. So the other thing too I'm essentially sad because I to be first of all the word team is enough. Right. But like to me, like sports is the most conditional kinda love the Rhys, right? You're not good enough. We're going to get we're going to replace you because someone's better, that's not a families uncondemned. We have to do that. Russia sports, there's no more kind of conditional lot over that always think it confuses players because you preach family family till the day wave them, right? Ause on. I really feel like we have I don't want to generalize, the whole league, but I feel like we've lost the trust of players. If you look at players how their traded how they're taught certain values and then in the middle of you know, a game or whatever the case may be guys get traded or it appears that way if you look at the mistrust that some players feel about teams that have had them and promise them certain things, and hadn't followed through like across the league there. It feels like there's mistrust when it comes to players and organizations and I feel like we in Phoenix and many teams across the league feel like we have to do a better job of letting guys know that we are there for them. There is a business aspect of it all. But the business is in some cloud in the sky making decisions. The business is people making decisions that affect other people, and I feel like. It's a cop out when we talk about the business because we always say it's a business. Well, yeah, that's, that's a bit of a cop out. It's people making decisions that affect other people, I think we could do a better job. And this is just me of conveying. The message that we do care about you and for me, I'm probably most proud of that. In my career is having. A number of former players text me all the time or call me just to say what's up, or I appreciate what you did for me. I didn't agree with it. But I respect it at Quincy pond, Dexter we played in Toronto last week and got the game seven and I come out of the locker room and Quincy pond Xers waiting on me like that kind of stuff means a lot to me. And it also affirms that I may be doing a few things correctly. Monty in the when you were ready to be head coaching candidate, again, last year after the tragedy, and then you went to San Antonio in the front office for a year plus, but even in the year there, I think, after the first year there you ready didn't happen. You go to Philly. And then there's some opportunities, but I think maybe in the time where you're getting feedback from team is about either why they didn't want interview or you interviewed, and, you know, and I think listen, I know there's jobs you could have taken that maybe weren't the right. Ones, but you're sort of evaluating the feedback of what people are saying here, the questions we have about you, hear the things we like these five or six things. But this seven thing is stopping. Were you hearing a consistent thing was at different everywhere? The fee was anybo- surprising to you based on how they were evaluating your time in New Orleans. No, I didn't never heard anything that was consistently negative. I did hear certain things about being tough on players. Not always valuing, what they wanted to do, and that for me was good stuff for me because I want to be a better coach won't be a coach players. Feel like they can be the best version of themselves around me. But I didn't hear that a ton. I heard it a couple times, and I was thankful to hear that, because that's obviously something I want to improve on and also self evaluate but not be too critical. One thing we do when we're coaching is we tend to over valuate ourselves, especially after getting fired, and that can be a bit of a fallback at times. I mean just listen to some comments, you know, coach beeline is going to Cleveland. And he's calling around talking to different coaches, and I think Jeff Van Gundy told him like, you know, don't listen to everybody, like sometimes we listened to so many people that we forget that we are pretty good at what we do. I mean, I'm an NBA head coach and I'm one of thirty in the world, not thirty and a state like I'm one of thirty in the world. And I don't say that era greatly, but it is what it is. And I know that I'm. I'm pretty good. At what I do I want to be better. And I say that respectfully and so, yeah, you hear stuff. But I don't think that's bad. I mean there are guys who can't shoot they want to improve on shooting there guys who don't pass. Well, there guys who have bad character be. And they can't stick with teams when you hear that feedback. You have to take it in and get better, and I feel I'm no different when it comes to coaching your life experience, since your last ahead coached the tragedy. You've gone through a different role as a parent. I remember we talked at summer league a couple years ago, and you talked about how much you learned from being in mother's being in the car line with being around just the moms, how do you imagine? Or think or sense you might lead differently or places where your there's a heightened sense of something now was different than a ably. A hope that I'm more patient because I've had to be the last four. Four years, almost four years, a little over three and I think I'm more equipped to just look past stuff that doesn't matter. When you're raising your children, and your thrown into a situation I was always reacting to something. And when you're reacting to something at least for me, I had to be careful of my response, because my kids nurturing dependent on it and probably a more willing to allow people to help me that was one of my flaws that I knew in New Orleans is I've tried to do everything myself. I was younger more brash, I looked at it as confidence, but it was probably arrogance at times, just not allowing people to help me as much as I could. And so hopefully I've learned a ton of lessons through our trial in situation with the loss of my wife Ingrid in because. At the end of the day, I have to as a parent provide the best atmosphere possible. So my kids can be the best version of themselves. Well at the same thing, I try to do as a head coach is to not only provide that for the players, but also for the staff and support people around the team. And so I've just had to do things the last few years that I didn't have to do before. And when you're in the situation like that it exposes you because it's, it's, it's your kids, you know, and I don't already going to have my own regrets about the way I raised my kids, no different than anybody else. But there's some things that I just couldn't screw up. And I, I needed help I needed people to lean on, and I'm hopeful that some of those lessons will help our players here in Phoenix. 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So you're guaranteed to find something you love that won't break your Bank. So don't wait. Get fifteen percent off today with free shipping and free returns by going to movement dot com slash watch. That's MVP. Mt dot com slash wo JR. See why movement keeps growing to movement dot com slash wo JR. And join the movement. I think you view coaching team in the NBA is like I think you've very much feel like your program builder, you want to build a program, you won't have relationships not every coach some coaches come in and practices over the game's over. We don't have to spend a lot of time to either maybe with a veteran team. It's easier to do, but with a young team like you have, and the way I think you'd like to keep building in Phoenix that emotional investment in trying to build relationships that where it all starts for you, like, like it's hard to coach guys until you, can you can have that you around an affiliate with Brett you came in on the back end of some long relationships there that he Joel Embiid. And I was just with TJ McConnell different players. But you arrived in San Antonio. You're the relate. Like can you still have that in the NBA? Believe you can. And I believe that's what players want. If there's anything that I have excelled in, in coaching it. It's been that my relationships with former players even ones that I was pretty hard on or pretty solid. And I think players want that I think players want to know that the guy that's giving them direction and leadership really cares about them. I believe the time off the floor is important. I believe that when you can get away and break bread or have them over to your house, or go to their kids birthday parties or go to their kids games in genuinely mean it. When you're there, I think it goes a long ways with players and I learned that from my high school coach Taft, Hickman digger, Phelps in college coach pop like I've had that influence in my life. My, my little league football coach James Westbrook. We went to church get together. He was the first person I coach to invite me to church and my mother and I started going to church, and we've had thirty years of relationship almost forty and so it's a huge part of who I am. It's a huge part of how I coach I want guys that play for us to know that I care about them. On and off the floor. You said that you think the guys want it. And I think in the end players do crave structure. Like young people. They, they want structure. Give me give me parameter. Sure you've had some time that go through your roster. Talk to some of the guys returning. Was that a common theme among Suns players that? You think the structure inconsistency, you know, I'll use Devon as an example. He said, this'll be his fifth coach. You know. So his mind is probably clouded with a lot of concepts and systems. And the one thing I want to be able to do with Devon is to keep it simple at first. In, in that was a bit of a directive from the organization is to, you know, we need to have consistency with our, our team. And so what kind of system can we put in that can grow and become a championship type system at the same time, the one thing, if not one of many things, I've learned pop used of phrase, at a at a camp coaches retreat, that we went to with him, you know, rules, stifled talent. You know, the one thing coaches at least for me, I have to be careful of anything in my program that stifles talent stifles creativity because the players that are in the league are creative, Devon he's an offensive machine. And so I don't wanna get in his way and so that's why I believe spending time with the guys and talking to them about what they wanna do with their careers is important. And then I can fit that into our program to. Hopefully make it better. Monty, there is obviously been a lot of focus around the Lakers, coaching search. You're a part of it. What did you find in sitting down with? I know you sat down with a number of people that organization. What did you see in your visit would rob Pelinka once and then the broader group like the other thing Tyler had the same ownership and management. What did you see and hear from them when I spoke with the Lakers, the thing that impressed me more than anything was miss bus, and her thoughtfulness in how the particular team and organization is really a part of her DNA, you know, when she talks to you about the team, she's not only talking to you about basketball. She, she really is vested in those young men's lives. And I saw that. It is the Lakers a traditional foundational organization slash institution of the league. And they have big shoes to fill. Mister bus was a trailblazer. And so I see the burden I saw the burden that she had and she has she wants to carry on the legacy of her dad. And when I spoke with her that, that resonated with me, I was like this lady is for real. And so, you know, I'm no different than anybody else. I've heard some of the things that have been said about her enough. I really felt bad about that because I didn't get that I saw lady that really cares. And she really wants what's best for the players involved, but also the organization and so for me. I, I didn't have a bad experience with them. But my talks with them were they helped me to learn more about another team. And you, you know, for me, it makes me better. It makes me more aware of the NBA as. A whole Martin in the way that coaching has evolved and change in a league even from when you left New Orleans is a head coach in this job. Is there something you've got to be more? That's true of all coaches. You've got to be more, adept at than even six years ago. Seven years ago. What's changed about doing this job? Looted to earlier. I think for me, I have to be more patient when I was in New Orleans. I had Chris Paul David west mecca Okafor Willie. Green air Jack I had big time pros. And vets Trevor Aretha Marco bell Nellie, this particular situation. The I think patience is going to be key and allowing our team to grow, but at a rate where I don't push them too hard. I could push that group my first year and then we stripped the team down, then I had Anthony Davis entire Ican. Erik Gordon Ryan Anderson, I learned that you have to let those guys grow at a slower pace now that's not what fans want to hear all the time. But if you push them too hard you put him in a situation where they may not perform well, and not everybody is ready to win a championship. And so, I think you know. Having this particular team. You know, we won nineteen games last year we want to be able to improve every month every section of the season Brett Brown. Does it really good job of breaking the season down into thirds, and I want to be able to do that here? Just see improvement every third. And, and hopefully in the summer, we can reevaluate and say, hey, this is what we need to get better at. But we do see a lot of growth in this program, and I really feel like in a little over a year. Maybe two years. We're going to be in a position where we're going to be really good. And that's why I feel like I'm I am more attracted to this situation because I do get a chance to be a program builder. Traditionally Phoenix has been a free agent destination. Yes players, it's west coast. It's whether it's a climate and a organization. Until the last however many years here was very consistent hadn't won a championship. But sort of had did everything that. And integrate fan base Spinks has always had. It's a great MBA talent. So it's been that does it still feel like I was kind thought a little bit like it's sort of like the war, Landau Orlando is sort of its comparison in the east, like they could get free agents there. It's not New York or LA but, but it's it should be at the top of that next. Here's is that how you imagine this place that it can be. Again, can be a think the one of the differences here, Orlando's both have good weather, but we have fifty two years this upcoming season of tradition fifth winningest team in the history of the game. And I think that says a lot about the history of the team in and we do have, you know many players behind this that are looking at us when you look at the, the banners in the array. There's a lot of good players up there. And I think that gives our players something to shoot for now. We don't have a ring. We don't have a championship, but. For me. It's like what an opportunity, you know, I can not only be part of this. But we also we have some things in front of us that those guys behind us never had the practice site that's going up in the Camelback Scottsdale area is going to be second to none. And I I've seen the effect that a practice I can have on your organization in New Orleans, worked in. Okay. See in Philly like those practice sites are like Taj mahals, and Mr. servers, don't an unreal job of planning and putting this thing together, I think guys are going to be attracted to that, and our program, and how we do things here, I think, is going to be attracted to free agents and, and the guys, we have here, I think they're going to want to stay and be a part of this. And so I'm really excited about that. And that's why having a chance to be a head coach again is a privilege, but also the opportunity in front of me is going to be really cool going forward. You said it earlier that you do not take lightly, the idea that you're one of thirty. These jobs are hard to get you. They're hard to keep when you are not a head coach anymore, and you leave New Orleans, and by any measure, people look at what you did New Orleans and your final season there, where think there was a metric that your division that year was, maybe the toughest vision and a history professional sports terms of, you know, with Houston Dallas, Senate Tonio, Oklahoma City, Memphis, and you get in the playoffs you lose to a warriors team that was obviously on the way right there worldly on the way like twenty point lead. And we're at that twenty point lead went about about a minute. Right. And you're let go, and I think you fell K. I'll find my way back. I built a track record and I think nobody expected you would not be a head coach again. But when you are out and now these jobs start opening in union agent, Spencer. Breaker you start evaluating an opening and should I interviewed there do they want me to interview every one of these different. I imagine it was port where you don't take for granted anymore that you're gonna get one of these because listen, there's lots of competition. And, and I think for you, your one year, and then two years away from me and a head coach and then an unspeakable tragedy. And now that pushes it back again. And all of a sudden now there's people hiring who weren't around who weren't. Of course they were in the league when you were there. But, but it's not as fresh to everybody you start to feel that and go. Oh man. Is this? I'm going to get one of these right? I don't think I ever felt any angst because again, I never felt entitled to a job. You know, I just heard all the talk about it, and I'm thankful that people think that highly of me, but I never lost sight of the fact that it's a privilege to be a coach in the NBA. It's a privilege to be able to. Be the face of the franchise in part in there. I'm no different in that. I saw other guys being hired. But I, I genuinely were happy for those particular guys and their families. I just thought if if a position in an opportunity was good for me and that was what the Lord wanted for me, it would happen. And if it didn't I was at peace with that, because when I first got into the NBA one, I didn't know if I was going to be able to play this as long as I did and to, to be able to go right into coaching and be a head coach and coach on the Olympic team. Like I never had that on my forecast. And so to do what I've been able to do feel unbelievably blessed, and yet there's stuff in front of me that I want to do even more because I have this opportunity, so. I don't know. I just feel like. Not only are these jobs hard, and I get that. But they also are opportunities and I get a chance to help other people, I'm not, I'm certainly not pop or Doc Rivers. But in my position, I've had a great opportunity to help other people get jobs. And, and maybe steer younger guys in a different direction, where I've made mistakes, I really take pride in doing that if I if I see a younger guy doing something that I did. And I know it's not good if I have that relationship with them, I'll tell them like man. You don't wanna do that. Trust me. And I really value that. And that's a part of being a head coach that I get to do it from this platform. My sense to Monte has been that I think people gravitate to you. And you whether you said, whether it's players are young coaches and they wanna there's something to aspire to of how you ran things as a head coach. How you did your job as an assistant, how you made the transition from playing to coaching and then people watch do deal with tragedy, and they watched you deal with the loss of Ingrid the raising of your children without her and their people in all walks of life who go through comparable situations differences. Yours was very public and they saw it play out in a they saw you have a platform that others didn't, and I sense, is that those people have found you, too and reached out. And what is that Ben, like for your life and the time that you have taken to, to, to connect with those people, I will? Joe was just like. To be straight, man. I didn't want anything to do with it was all thrusted on me. And when I spoke at my wife's funeral I was talking to my kids. I wasn't talking to people in the crowd. I was just talking to my kids and it resonated with people in a way that I still can't comprehend. Well, the bible says to whom much is given much as required. And our situation is public, but behind the scenes, I've been able to connect with people who've been through really tough stuff, and I now see it as an honor to at times connect with those people don't have a solution for them all the time. But sometimes if you can just talk to somebody who's been there and has a reference point that kind of crosses a little bit. There's a different kind of empathy that we, we may have for each other. And I can't tell you how many people that have walked up to me and. An airport or been a church. And just somebody probably wouldn't open up started to open up about what they were dealing with. And for me, I have this reputation for being other worldly strong, and that's just not the case, I've had to get help. I took a class called Greece share actually took it twice. Almost finished the second portion of it. I had to go to jersey Philadelphia, but I needed help to deal with the grief in the hurt in the heaviness that I was, you know, in because if I didn't get help it was going to not only hurt me, it was going to hurt my kids, and I'd never be able to coach again, had, I not gone through that type of counseling and that got that kind of help. And so there's a number of, of many, many layers that I've had to deal with in that situation. And I'm not ashamed to tell people may not I was broken and to a degree still am, and we'll always be. But I've gotten help in a number of people pray for me and had it not been for pastor Bill Gephardt, who I talked to every day who's, like my dad, had it not been for he and his wife Velma. There's no way I'd be where I am today. So, yeah, I've been able to connect with a lot of people. Yes. Maybe I've been a source of inspiration. My kids have been that for other people. But at the core it was a really tough time and still is and I needed to get help through that process. How do the kids feel about you being again? And. Again, and all that comes with it, share you with more people. Yeah. Well, I'll give you a quick story man this time around. I didn't involve my kids as much because I didn't know how it was going to go. I didn't know if I was going to do it, as far as waiting for the right situation was the contract going to work out in the way that I wanted it. So I didn't tell them because I didn't want them to have a letdown. And so when I finally came to terms with Phoenix. I remember calling my two daughters who were at school, and my oldest daughter, she was just, like I knew it just going nuts. I knew it. I knew we were going to Phoenix. And I'm like, that's, that's typical Lael but I call my daughter faith in I just called her. I didn't face timer. And I could tell she was her voice was cracking. And so I hung up real quick and FaceTime. And she picked up and she's running so she can get somewhere to just be by yourself. And to watch her face and to see my daughter break down, and cry. Because she's so happy for her dad. I can't tell you what, that meant to me to have my child fill that deeply for her father and want me to be happy and want me to do what I love to do. I just knew like this was the right situation. This was the right time. And my kids were they had been ready. But this just confirmed that I have some pretty cool kids, and I'll never forget that moment of being on FaceTime, with my daughter and just watching her. And I'm just staring at her, and she's just like dad. I am so happy for you that I cannot tell you how happy I am for you. She just kept saying and it messed me up. And so, yeah, there's a number of layers and a number of stories that we'd be. On your podcast, all day, but to see my kids react that way really touch me in a way that I can't even explain properly. Well, it is great to see you back in the big chair, Monte, and just spend in Phoenix air for, you know, part of the day, and you can already talking to people, there's some excitement here, this, and so it's cool. Thank you for jumping on and I know we'll see a here. Some of these pre draft combines some of these places blue running around trying to figure out who you take in June. Choices woche. Thank you, man. You've always been fair. And I can't say that about everybody, you're always fair. And so I appreciate that. And, and to all of the people that have supported me and prayed for me. And it means the world to me and my family. So I just want to publicly say thank you to all those people. Thank you. My thanks for listening to this episode of the wo- jackpot a big. Thank you, to our guest Phoenix Suns coach Monty Williams, remember, you can listen to new and archived episodes of the Woche pod on apple podcast radio dot com and wherever else you get your programs, of course, a big thank you to our sponsors, movement dot com and wicks dot com. Be sure support them the way the support is here at the Welsh pod will catch next time.

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Damian Lillard, Sixers Sadness, and What to Do With Denver | Group Chat

The NBA Show

1:04:57 hr | 5 months ago

Damian Lillard, Sixers Sadness, and What to Do With Denver | Group Chat

"EVERYBODY LOVES GAME SHOWS EVERYBODY HAS A podcast I've got both everybody. I'm Kyle grants in my new show. Ten questions is a game show talk show athletes movie stars everybody will come on not just to talk they come on this show to compete ten questions whether they know it or not are somehow inspired by a moment in their life or their career ten questions. Ten points so much fun head over to spotify and please subscribe to ten questions with Kyle. Brands. Basketball is very alone welcome to group the ringers weekly NBA Group discussion where we talk about everything from Mario his own to headbutts. I'm your host Justin Barrier and joining me today Rob Mahoney. WHAT'S UP ROB? Not a lot doing great. I. Want you both to know you're both on my all NBA teams game presented by Keough. also joining US Jonathan Sharks, how you doing? Steve Back on production we actually say hello to Stephen this time we missed you I'm buddy Today, we're going to get into a couple things here. We're going to bring on Chris Ryan to talk about six or sadness I. Guess is the best way to describe it, which is something that Chris knows very well we're going to get into the nuggets in the back end of the podcasts go a little bit of a deep dive with some of charges lineup dead but I want to talk about Damian Lillard. Guys saw last night, but it seems like Damian Lillard is a Golden God. So, sixty one points last night. On the heels of a fifty point game the so they're they're doing this bubble. VP, thing as rob alluded to up top in addition to an all bubble team, which is basically awards for the past two weeks of seating games. So Lillard has clearly one bubble and the If you had any doubts about that, I think last night pretty much. So that up here's my question to you guys if we were to include the bubble games in the awards big picture. Balloting which they're not doing but I wish they had would Lillard have a case for MVP along with Jaanus and Lebron I mean do MVP's ever go to eight seeds right? Like I don't know we have to change the rules of voting right in terms of the unwritten rules how these things go it's tough because he's been so good and you don't WanNa take anything away from how just how well Lillard has played these games and how important those games have been. But I would have a hard time personally even putting aside Johnson Lebron I don't even know what the argument would be for Lillard over James Harden for example, I think there's a couple of their candidates who would still be in his way and alerted probably I bet you'd get on more ballots if the if they were turned in after the seating games about these, really cracking that top two interesting. So you wouldn't even put him third right now I wouldn't I mean harden to me scores more assists about the same is. A clear cut above in every one number metric out there his team is twelve games better. I mean to me he. He does so much of what Lillard does but more effectively if we're talking about hardened specifically and that's not even if you know you could get into Luca in this conversation or Anthony Davis in this conversation as well. Lillard is Great I. Think he is well worthy of consideration for the ballot I just don't have quite at that level I guess I'll go deep cut here I think the question. would. Be In a hypothetical world where they still had all season Nurkic Collins Rodney Hood. If they had their team all year that team of Dame Cj Hood Calms Nurk that prions like fifty fifty, five games. Okay. Now years case sermon. BP. But MVP, team on an individual award you got win a lot of games when this war how it is yeah it's a tough ask I bring this up more as a discussion than than really escaping for for Lord for the Award Janas Lebron have both one almost twenty more games. than. The players are this way. So the case that you'd have to make for Dame would have to be the Russ case, right? I. Know We look back on derisively pretty much almost as as the moment when the NBA media just like really lost his way when we voted for US MVP over James Harden. But I just look back at the season in risk saying signature moments. If we're saying stories that defined the season Russ excuse me not only had that six game stretch where he had almost fifty points a game but now he has this. I don't know I think he's very clearly third. If I were to do a ballot today I, think what he's done considering the obstacles put in front of him in Portland considering all the progress that he's made his statistical resume is in all that worse than some of the top guys, I, just I just think. That, he has a case if not the best case I know where is Justin you're putting respect on his name Yeah I I don't know where this is coming from where we're guys are just making things up now to be upset about it seems like there's so. Be Coming from DC. Place in the world where these kinds of magic sleights, major news stories. That's so weird. I don't know I've never logged on before I've never participated in it at all. But it is weird though like it just seems like maybe there's not enough to do in the bubble that we're just like coming up with Straw man arguments for like the little best players in the world to really have something to really motivate themselves against But I will say this the blazers have dealt with significant obstacles not only the ones you mentioned earlier in the season all of a sudden last night after Dame's market performance I was reported out by White James that apparently CJ mccollum has a broken lower back or like. Fractured Vertebrae, something like that which sounds really tough. And he's been playing with us for the past three games. It just to me makes this lower performance, all the more interesting way and makes I think CJ is performance pretty gutsy to like. As soon as that report came out I immediately thought back to there was a sequence in the fourth quarter against the mavs where he ended up on committing. A couple of fouls on guys who are driving and hit the floor pretty hard as a result and my head I was thinking like Portland really needs to start asa fouling. But in retrospect I'm like Oh my God cj mccollum just falling over and over on his broken back and still came up, you know hit some pretty important shots for them so. You know that's You know long term health impacts of that. Aside, I don't know what the you know. The ramifications are playing with a broken back. I think pretty admirable thing. If nothing else that he's been able to play as well as he has cj, it does feel very sexist affi in like they're moving heaven and earth to play Lebron A in round one like man. Yeah they're really treating the seating games almost as if it is a playoff and maybe that's what needed to be done. Maybe like other teams that are in this race, the spurs the grizzlies maybe they should be writing those guys but I look at the minutes and they are adding up you're playing pretty much forty minutes a game, every night and he's on like seven games over two weeks. So this is a condensed period which so I I bet he's feeling those more CJ also playing a ton of minutes while on. This broken back, they pretty much trimmed the rotation to eight guys Marianas sometimes plays sometimes doesn't is the blazers have really gone for this and they will ultimately probably get in just based on the way things are looking right now they they have really good odds in. The ring restart odds I believe they in the grizzlies have the pod to play in the playing game this weekend. But I don't know I. Don't I don't know if there is a cost I guess, would it be worth it? If long-term, this becomes an issue. I think there is a cost, even short term. I mean, we're talking about Portland just being on complete overdrive right now, if they make it to that one eight matchup, whatever you know how much energy they have left is an open question but that's the cost you pay like these. The every game right now is essential for them. They're treating it that way Terry stotts certainly, as you mentioned with his rotation and low and mccollum in terms, the weather all these guys Nurkic again let's put some more respect on on Mello's name as well. He's had a good couple games here. These are these are games they can't afford to give away and long-term. You had that conversation I'm sure that the medical staff is agonizing over whatever it is. Condition is more specifically. But when we're looking at this season is the next game is all this quickly before we flip to the sons here because they deserve just as much recognition here they deserve as much respect on their name I want to talk about the mavs briefly. So they were on the losing end of this blazers game crunch time has become a bit of a big. For the mavs as we've gone along the season at first I thought it was more just Luca Danjus playing through some. Some of his erotic tendencies is kind of just like the Luca experience right if you want him to make these exhilarating between the legs dimes and you also need him to throw a pass every now and then kind of the the Steve Nash Corollary I guess but as we've gone along this. has become a bit of a trend and so last night we saw this plow I guess it's a little bit more on the fluky side because the two plays the ended up doing the men were both charge calls one two KRISTAPS Porzingis one to lose the game with Trey Burke but John you're you're around this team a lot during in the season when we could actually be around other humans are. You concerned at all as we turn the page to the playoffs about the mavs I mean concern the sense like are they GonNa win a championship now I mean they ate is beat the bucks overtime on. Saturday right I feel like clutch performances and kind of go up and down. One thing I was actually interested in hearing y'all's opinion about right before this podcast I, was talking to a fun office guy for. One of our teams in the race for the seed and he was telling me like he's watching KP drop pick and rolls on dame losing his mind. He's like this is a guaranteed loss. PORZINGAS cannot guard dame they got Shane something up and I was like that's try. I. Don't she even do like how the mavs US porzingas when Dame is plan like that I think that's a big question for them going forward. I mean. That's the thing with Dallas too. Is that not only do they have issues defending big wings like every other team in the League essentially does you know the Lebron collide types but defending guards is difficulty for them? Especially, I mean Lillard is challenging for everybody. But KRISTAPS PORZINGIS is not bad defensive player. He just suited to a different space on the floor and when you string him out that far. That to me is why Dallas kind of blew that game and why I think they're crunching performance in that game specifically isn't really indicative of their crunch time problems more generally because this was just a total loss at defending Damian Lillard. You know I think they probably eased into it think trying the drop to see what they could get away with on the chance that their offense was good enough that. They could get enough stops elsewhere. Let's not tax kp any more than we have to, and then it ended up where lily riches pouring it on. So frequently and with so much force that he had to show up a little bit more and still was getting driven around the traffic cone. So it definitely puts them of Dallas's long-term issues in perspective because once you get into actual playoff series that matter. Guys'll him. We're going to be singled out. Luca's going to be challenged in ways. He hasn't been challenged before we see it to the best done to the best players in the world. So why not them? Yeah. That's what the playoffs are going to be. So interesting for the mavs I think kristaps has done at least on the offensive end I thought like a spectacular job in these eating games his shot looks better than perhaps it ever has. It just seems like every. Time. He takes. It looks like it's going to go in but John, you've written about this a lot just like whether or not Chris Stops long-term is the best partner for Luca because on on one hand, he is a big and you provide space for him and an is able to protect the rim on the other end on the other side. Do you really need simply just in a stretch big as his number two option where you fall on that kind of spectrum Is. KP, in terms of rim protection and I think with Luca having a guy who can score very quickly as huge. If you look at like the touches numbers Lucas like holding the ball the most entirely in the bubble by a mile. So you have a guy who's willing to play off Luca and let him do his thing and Kinda score very quickly. My father KP was this in those situations what about putting him on like Gary Trent. So the idea would be if the garden the big man right, Sanjeev. Gary, Trent setting. The screen on Dame's defender Gary Translate six five right. So you put a big wing on dame like like finishing through six foot eight. It's hard from the get around the screen than if it's nervous setting the screen. So basically like take away the pick and roll the best screener for Dame, by putting KP in one of the shooters and then seeing what happens I think it does a good job of. Of Dame's hands a little bit but the alternative in that case is running Gary Trent. The best shooter to ever live off down with kristaps porzingis having to chase does throw great about that either the because causes competition to Gary Trent Junior. If it isn't his teammate Damian Lillard, it's Devon Booker. That was my attempt at a transition was not bad I liked it. All Right Devon Booker obviously probably one of the bigger shining stars of this bubble situation whatever you WANNA call it remember when we called it a campus environment. And that was the thing the NBA tried to push. It's kind of like when someone tries to give themself a nickname like when Katie wind to become what was it it was service. The sermon and everyone's like no. That's pretty much what the bubble is at this point but Devon Booker having just a breakthrough performance we talked about him a little bit last week but I think he's been even better over the past few games as the sons continue to win games they have not yet lost and I don't know if they'll lose next game because it seems like every single team left on the docket. For Thursday is going to sit every good player. So we'll see about that but I thought it was interesting last game against the sixers who were not playing a lot of players with whom they knew normally play. Kyle Quinn Triple Double Watch was pretty much the most interesting thing going on in Philly. We'll get to that later in the episode Chris Little Bit but I thought the divine had a really good point Dan Ringer staffer He said that booker was doing a bunch of star stuff in the midst of the game in what he meant by that was he was manufacturing points when the sun's needed points is getting guys involved when they needed to get involved eight and was kind of slumping around wasn't as active in the. Offense, he would try to pass it to him stuff like that I. think that is the difference between booker a year ago and booker now seems like he's evolving into this all round player who you can really play through and I don't know if sons are gonNA get or not. But to me, that's super encouraging just going forward. Well, that's the thing you can only get from these kinds of games right? You can put Devon Booker in. Indianapolis in January in a in a somewhat close game, and that game looks however looks but to have games with these stakes, were you put you're putting your best player in that position that I mean that's what this whole situation was supposed to be about for the Sunday show up learn a lot compete hard take the most out of this bubble experience you can and go home. Happy. It just turns out that that comes with also competing for a playoff spot, which has just been a miraculous turn of events and. Really. As a tribute to the broader success of their team I think Yarmulke deep cut here I think worth giving this guy shot out. I. Feel like we talked about booker last week he's a great player for a long time it just a supporting cast has been improved this season and this number is is insane. So the Great Cameron Payne Julie Castoff played for like eight teams his net rating in the bubble is plus twenty two and on the floor, the sons are only plus four. So apparently, campaign has become like the best point guard of all time. Well, let's let's talk about the bench because you know this isn't a sexy reason why the sons have. Been Good the bench was just a complete disaster, all season and all of a sudden the combination of Cam Dario Saroj, von Carter, some Frank Kaminsky in there, and then you know throw in a start or two to kind of fill out those lineups has been all of a sudden really viable and that's without Kelly Oubre, Aron Baynes this is you know basically bench line at that should have been and could have been left for dead if we assume the regular standards of the regular season and yet they've been able to turn out winning margins for the sons in games that really matter can you guys tell me where campaign was a year ago today see in China I'm losing track of him after Chicago Yeah I think most people did start in January two, thousand, nineteen signed a ten day contract with the Cleveland Cavaliers and on July he signed contract with the raptors this must have been for summer league I guess yeah. I think this is just a summer contract then he ends up in China then in January he was with the Texas legends and then on June thirtieth he signed a deal with the Phoenix Suns Campaign. Has Been around the world but he is back. I completely agree with you. It is so funny how everything just seems to fit with Phoenix, which is particularly surprising considering the off season that they had going into this. They gave away TJ Warren for cash as we all know now and Tj Warren is clearly Michael Jordan successor. So that seemed like it just go well for them. They brought on Ricky Rubio a move. I didn't like particularly because they had made a lot of noise about wanting to empower devon booker as some sort of like harden southwest and it seemed like they were quickly scrapping. That plan is seemed like all of a sudden. This is an the sons. Pretty much what they do at right. They just change things on the fly one day they have three point guards in next they had zero but I'm looking around this team now and it seems like everybody fits a role in a way that even a team like the Sixers, for instance, dozen and I think that's a credit to I. Guess It's The coaching staff that they've. Managed to take all of these draft picks over the past couple of years and really his allow a product. An actual team I think it's it signifies kind of a pivot from having needs optionality all of a sudden you get to choose whether you want to start Kelly. Oubre Cam Johnson. You get to choose whether you want to run the ball through booker or Rubio you have. So, much more flexibility in how you build your lineups, how you run your stuff from quarter to quarter I mean that's what makes teams good. It's not rocket science to have that kind of luxury and yet it just took Phoenix so long to get to this point. So I'm actually talking about this for a piece on Thursday and like going back on Robson optionality, there's two really big trades they made on draft night. So we'll talk about this with the Philly conversation. Later, this number one, they trade Zaire Smith from Kale Bridges Number two they trade Jerry Colour for Cam. Johnson. So in both trades, they're taking kind of a smaller more athletic multidimensional wing. They're moving him for a longer bigger shooter. It's like sometimes it's. Not, that complicated easy I'd Devon, booker you need three guys around him. They made those traits happen, and now we're seeing the results without those trades. This team is not very good and you know like you have a star, you get guys you can shoot threes can play defense you get enough of those guys aren't good player Stock Booker you're gonNA. Have a good team. They figured it out. It shouldn't be hard better kind is sometimes now they're they're winning. Yeah usually, Dario searches seems like old Dario now, even though as he's like guarding people on the perimeter, it kind of looks like he's riding a surfboard. Watching. Move laterally is they are just everything. But the flopping really does the to know I was watching them and this team reminds me of the Pelicans in Monty. Last year with that team in two thousand. Fourteen fifteen. Th the connection Damani is is pretty clear. But they just seems like just working in ways that you didn't necessarily expect. It seems like you look at the team on paper and you squint hard like I. Don't really know if this team really works that Pelican seem had tyreek Evans and your holiday share in the ball and it's like maybe I don't know drew was in not a lineup with injuries. Eighty was still kind of rising to prominence and it just seems like this is what they have here where booker seems to be taking that next step A. Little bit doing those little things that he needs to do while a lot of the other guys are maybe playing above their head at this point maybe just falling into the right Specific Role I. Guess my question from there is though, will they have a comedown just like that Pelicans team did because I do think as the Pelicans looked around they started to realize some of these pieces don't fit as well. Injuries definitely said an and really took them down Quincy pond ex I don't think played a get no he. He had a run with the spurs like a couple years later, but he was out of the League for a while Quincy Pond extra talk on this pot I. Love it listen. So obviously, I covered the Pelicans for two years and anytime time could Alvin gentry would mention that they did not have a small forward since Quincy Pond Dexter went down and he's right but on the other hand good. God I heard about Quincy Pond are so much. But no, it's just I do wonder if this is fleeting I wonder. If this is the type of thing where you expect them to carry it into next season because that's the trajectory of young teams right or if this is just a nice moment in next year, we'll be back in the same place where Devon Booker may not be happy or at the very least draymond green doesn't think that he's happy. There is a possibility here that the sons don't win one hundred percent of their games. Next season I think that's something we need to at least embrace right now as a possibility. To, your to your point about Monte I mean I listened to you know De'andre and was on. Adrian Watson Rescues podcast great interview and I think really highlighted money Williams as the voice that this team needed right now it's it sounded like from talking about his suspension from what he went through this season that having Monica's a little bit and also you know be there as a know someone to bounce things off of to listen to not always chew him out when he expects him to chew him out. There was just a really a. Really fine line that he walked with this young team. You know there can be really good coaches who come to a team at the wrong time. It just doesn't work for variety of reasons there can be really good coaches who over a long enough stretch their plays just start to tune them out. I think what separates this from that New Orleans group one they're younger to the healthy you mentioned Justin is just huge. I mean that New Orleans team was just undercut time and time again by injuries but also I really he new Orleans. Now, that would never happen there but it really just does seem like Williams might be the right kind of motivator for this group at a time when there had so much instability in terms of their coaching having that kind of steady voice could go a really long way. Yet. Funny to about new, Orleans in like with lock and injuries like Yuka, this team Kelly oubre towards meniscus in like February, and they kinda started slipping until Cam Johnson came in form the margin for error is so small in the West you've gotTa have five, six, seven, eight good players, and if one of those guys goes down the whole structure kind of collapses, right? So looking back on it. So Phoenix like we can all kind of agree they probably taken Luca one or Jaren Jackson. So he didn't do they didn't get that part right so that means they have to get everything else right to make up. For that and it's like it's just everything else right. It's hard to get five six seven good players on at the same time and good roles right now, this next works. But if British heard next year booker, you know springs ankle for a month and a half they missed the playoffs it all falls apart that fast I want to defend eight and a little bit there because I think while you're right I think Jackson and Luca, will turn out to be better players. This wasn't a wasted pick. This wasn't a blown pick like this is a situation the sons can build and recover from in that sense and. Aden to our point about the suns having all these options I think facilitates that just by being I think more versatile than he was given credit especially at draft time. That's true. I'm just saying in terms of if you have Jackson Luca plus booker that's two top ten players when you have two top ten players then you've got a lot of flexibility things can go wrong there's there's more margin for error that's kind of what I was going for their. Yeah. How Sons Consolation Prize from that draft is that they're now last on the list of being derided amongst the teams who passed on Luca Danni it's. Just like yeah. trae young and then and then obviously kings the top of that list. But I agree, I think eight and has shown something in these in these seating games I know I was a little critical of him and I still agree with what I said last week in sometimes he could just float around but I've been surprised that what he's on the defensive end he's been a lot better there and also his shot just looks way better than I ever expected to. It just looks it looks perfect when it comes out of his hand and you think it's GonNa it's GonNa make it every single time. But yeah to your point earlier about Mani I. think that was spot on just because I wasn't there for Mani when he coached the Pelicans but everything you heard from a heard about him from those Pelicans players is that they all loved him that he got them to buy in. But. On the flip side of that was they fired him specifically to take the next step. So I know I don't know history's going to repeat itself or if these are the right players for for what he wants to do Let's look ahead just really quickly here before we get to the sixers So Thursday pretty much is going to decide the west play and race fourteen or are pretty much still in this. Unfortunately, not the Pelicans and the Kings we don't know what's going to happen it seems like it may come down to whether or not people play their best players somehow it seems like the toughest game on the schedule on. Thursday is now the nets. Only because we know that they're gonNA try the hardest but which teams do you guys want to see at the end of the day in the playoff race in this plane race this weekend I mean it's got to be sons Blazers right way those two teams are playing a dame dame booker shootout at pretty awesome. Yeah. The Blazers are ultimately going to get through one way or another and kind of the way it should be just in terms of entertainment value in a potential first round series you know putting the best player on the floor but I'm I'm really looking forward to these playing games I mean just from a perspective of something we've never seen from the NBA. Having that much writing on a single game where you can't make game to game adjustments at least for the first crack. That's GONNA. Be a good ride. Yeah. I'm the same I definitely want to see the sons run continue. It would be really heartbreaking if they won every single game in front of them in the bubble and then had to go home when she's like. A word. It, sounds like after the final game, they have to pack up immediately and leave the bubble area. So imagine just like having the champagne bath and then getting on the plane while you're still soaking in this eight, no run that'd be pretty bad and so just as a quick refresher, a crams Akram's playoff odds on our site which check out the update every day he has the trailblazers and the grizzlies as the most likely pairing at Thirty Percent Blazers and suns at twenty percent, which is actually lower than I expected. So maybe there's some hope there we're gonNA take a quick break and bring in Chris Ryan talk about sixers. All right we're back rob. Myself. And we are joined with the special guests here. Anytime anything happens with the sixers. We need to go to the experts fleet to go to the heart of Philly. So why we brought on Chris Ryan Chris, how're you doing man this look suspiciously like an intervention? Kind of is I mean, that's kind of my first question. I think everyone listening is probably up-to-date at this point things are not going particularly well for the Philadelphia Seventy sixers I believe they started. Kyle. Quinn. And a couple of other deep reserves yesterday though they did push the sons pretty admirably but overall and bead will be back soon we think but Ben Simmons not so much how you doing man to just give us the. Straight from the heartache can I ask you guys can I start with a question instead of just pouring out by my emotions all over the place I want to ask you guys. If you were just new visitors to our planet and I explained the rules of basketball to you and you started watching hoops with the restart. Would you say that the sixers are the worst team in the ballpark? Worse looking team in the bubble worst like in terms of these guys clearly do not know each other don't have any idea how to play offense with one. Another nobody seems to really like each other and they're not listening to their coach. Would you say that that is a fair assessment of what you've seen from the sixers so far with Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid I think if I were familiar enough as an alien with human interaction to know okay, this is what people look like they've never met before that. Assuming I think they do have serious. We've never played before in our lives vibes on a regular basis which at this stage of the season given, how many years those guys play together in particular is more than a little bit disturbing but I think speaks to some of you know I, think Philly's a lot of ways has has gone out of their way to be as creative as possible and in the process just undermined a lot of what makes basketball really really simple sometimes well, like if I was in the. Who is really into NBA Manusha maybe I'd watch Tobias Harris and be like he's getting paid two hundred million dollars. That's why they don't have McCain bridges. Yeah. Wasn't I would also just say that I hope the aliens tuned into the Pelicans play defense because I don't think you need an understanding of human interaction to realize what a train wreck that is, and as bad as things have gotten in terms of just health with. Philadelphia. These days I also think just watching, Zion Williams and walk these is like it brings on anxiety attack. So I guess it could be worse it could be worse but I think the thing that I thought was happening in the beginning of. The bumble and especially as as it pertained to. Ben. Simmons was that they arrived and they were like looking at everybody and they're like, Hey, guys all the other NBA players like we're just gonNA take it easy right like we're going to just kinda get get our sea legs back as we get back into NBA action and get back up the pace and then everybody else just like blue their doors off and even though there's been some like teams having some struggles in the bubble in that, there's been some issues. It just felt like they were like still team. Of Switch Flip. Hey we're going to at some point. This is all just GonNa make complete and total sense. And I think the problem that I having watching them was like I. Don't mind them losing honestly I've watched the news for a very long time. It's IT'S I don't mind philly even not necessarily reaching their potential as a title contender I think that there's been a few winners in my life. You know. What I mind is that like they're just didn't seem to be a plan and I watch. Franchise after franchise to franchise, and I'm speaking very fan fan heavy here. Just, a somebody comes in and here's how we're going to play. And they have overcome more obstacles than the sixers have like you watch Oklahoma City and yours like. Oh. Wow. So you guys just came up with his three guard thing and it worked and you wash Houston and you're like oh you guys are just. Got Russell Westbrook, and look even better than you did with Chris Paul and it's like I don't know where the creativity and the. Ingenuity. The tactical savvy and frankly just like the overall blueprint for here's how we're going to put together a team around these two guys that we've decided are the franchise will I mean if I may I would like to submit? Its exhibits like hugh through S in terms of why the sixers completely cursed franchise and I mean if we if we look back like, let's go back to February, we should draw. Music arrived. Brett Brown Moves Horford to the bench in that game against the clippers. Looks like, okay. This is GonNa be the new way. This team looks great. Let's roll with it. Immediately Been Simmons hurts his back. Soon, after that Joel embiid gets her pretty much right after that the season comes to a halt with this long layoff. They. Circle. Back in his bubble, Brett Brown. We're GONNA Shake Milton into the starting lineup immediately again, Ben Simmons knee injury, Joel embiid hurt his ankle I like all the Best Intel in the world tells us that Brett Brown could be in some serious trouble if he doesn't make something happened with this team I, mean that's clear to every dude with an eagles. Jersey in his twitter Avatar. And yet every time restaurant has tried to make these desperation moves to try to get some. Only verners. But to see all this blow up like this when you do finally try to make the moves, I mean, it's it's just kind of tragic. So my question is like as Brett Brown the coolest person on earth because the amount of coverage of him losing his job, get some tragedy like he's a fine coach probably. But if he gets fired, the world will keep spinning like it's not a big deal really violent acts Oh my God breadbox Mica fired okay. Live for all the time. Well, mean he's he's such an interesting character in this whole saga because the other elements of this franchise whether it was ownership or management, and the turnover that they've had in those positions has created such a chaotic atmosphere. That Brett is always gone to as the safe pair of hands say, Oh, well, in this moment of transition let's stick with what we know with Brown. Oh well now that Jimmy Butler is gone, we gotta give Brown a chance to have the team that this team and the constant turnover in the roster. The default position is just like well, let at a year of these guys you know and it's like you're you're never going to give him a year with these guys. You're always going to be getting rid of people and not giving him basic fundamental rosser depth and please like honestly I don I. Honestly, start crying on zoom if we talk about Michelle Bridges Oversight or Smith. Aware of the fact. I am aware of the fact that. The that that pick wound up also facilitating offering. Tobias Harris Two hundred million dollars nearly like I'm fully aware of all the ramifications of that. But I just think that. There is a certain point is happened to soccer all the time three years the Guy Stop hearing your message. There's only a few people who really longtime in in in the Premier League in European football that those guys are institutions but the idea that somebody. Brett does not have something in his back pocket that he hasn't shown us yet. So why not try Jay writes Stan Van Gundy whoever it is that is the person who's like it's just like this you stand over there. Or you need somebody to come in and say, this is exactly what these two guys need or. I can only use one of them and let's let's really restock the coffers here by trading one of them. Yeah that's the one caveat to the WHO is to blame the Front Office or the coaching staff where Brown was in charge when he took Zaire Smith Patio where McKell bridge is now just the Shining Star of his sons revival I will say this though. It is weird to really just dig Brett Brown's grave when it seems like at the very least he's doing a lot right now unlike before where you could argue maybe to Ben Simmons too much didn't push when he probably should have. benched Al Horford right before the restart, which is a tough decision for a guy that they just paid will however many millions of dollars to in order to try to make this thing work, and at the very least he tried to move Ben Simmons more to a powerful position bring shake and into that starting lineup he's doing a lot I. don't know if they're the right answers but I am at the very least encourage that he's doing something and it's not. I won't entirely blame him because in some ways. Benjamin's knee injury was like an injury that answered a question that was already there. You know you're either he didn't look right in the bubble anyway I don't think he had a decent game indy like for the most part like there was just. Something off about and I don't know whether it was like. kind of like a mile tantrum about being moved out of point guard or whatever it was. But yeah, I mean Robin erupted but I, I was just GonNa say it's not entirely on Brett. No I was GONNA say as far as Brits piece in this it feels a lot like especially since all the losing and when they really started to get you know they get Joel, they get him healthy on on the floor they get Ben. Simmons, that he approached this this you know this coach would come out of the Spurs System With a long haul kind of approach with Ben, Simmons. In with Joel we're not GONNA ruffled. We're going to challenge these guys in some ways, but we're not going to ruffle their feathers. We're not gonNA push them too far their comfort zones. These are the guys who are going to be the next decade of sixers basketball like Tim, Duncan, was for the Spurs for such a long time and when you take that approach I think it's healthy and a lot I think there's A lot of aspects of sixers culture that are healthy in terms of the way they think about the humanity of players in terms of the way they try to relate to guys. But in terms of some of the on court stuff, there's no question that guy should have been pushed in slightly different directions that they tried slightly more conventional things at times that you know I they. They got a little bit ahead of themselves in terms of how far this is going to go. I think we're all kind of saying ultimately is a coach is kind of a victim of a situation. Right? There's only so much Brett Brown can do. So Chris I need a take. I'm putting you on the spot and Beater Simmons Pick One I'm pretty team Simmons. I I understand that that's not The most probably is probably the popular locker room favorite both the in sixers locker room but in in terms of like vote getting there but I just I just love telepathic passers. I I've always loved guys who see the floor, the way Ben Simmons does and I rarely get somebody like that who also is can defend for positions. Defend for positions kind of player. What about sixers? Fans in general who? Envied by far. Okay. I think it's embiid embiid is like a Philadelphia sports icon now. That's what's interesting about this. Little trial period here for the Joel Embiid sixers I think on the one hand maybe you'll start to appreciate Ben Simmons and what he did particularly for that defense when you want Al, Horford and some of these. Tobias. Harris pretty much trying to cover up what he did on the wings. I mean Richardson and viable can only do so much or on the other hand this. Word has something some notes on that take by the way. You know maybe maybe KNEECAP was already starting to fall out of place at that point. But I think there's also a possibility here where they go on a run and all of a sudden like significant decisions could be made before we even get this little runway of embiid and Simmons as this four point guard type whatever Brett Brown had mind. It's going to be interesting basically saying I, think this upcoming period is just as interesting as anything that's come before it. They're going to need just by the nature of the thing for embiid to do a ton at all times you know provided that he's healthy to whatever extent he's able to go. They're going to need all of that I think where I get a little skeptical of the What if the sixers pull the rabbit out of the hat here is you know what they lose with Ben Simmons defensively. This is a team that especially from like a basketball nerd perspective has been Kinda underwhelming on defense all season you would think that between beat and Horford and Simmons and Josh Richardson and even thrown Tobias Harris who's like a at least a big defender who can get in the Antiviral, of course. That's a lot of defensive personnel you. All defense level personnel you can throw on the floor at any given time and turn out with just like a kind of pretty good defense most years when they have, you know that group has the potential to be a historically great defense. I. Mean. It's just it's really hard to believe in that team and then you take Simmons out of that, who's the most responsible for their defensive success period to this point this season I just don't trust that they're going to be quite good enough on that side to to really make anything of this I will say this. If, you're Joel Embiid, you're supposed to be this franchise big man defensive player of the year seven foot monster. You're going in the playoffs facing Daniel. Ties I don't any excuses. You've got plenty of players around you. Still I mean like follow the crying were doing they do have Richardson harassed eyeballs Milton Horford. This is a decent team if embiid wants to be a dominant seven footer how `bout you dominant Germ big man and when a playoff round shot the Germany and you also saw draymond green right draymond has been saying the same thing I'm GonNa find you fifty grand for that. Take the jury. Saying the same thing where he when he was on. The other night he was like anytime Joel embiid takes a jumper, the defense one or paraphrasing dream on because I don't want to get fined by exactly quoting but. I think. He was basically saying like if you're Joel embiid and you're doing anything but dominating the lower block, you're essentially giving away points you're making the defense feel good about themselves and I've seen a couple of different iterations of the sixers over the years tactically where it's been was in the process years, it was more of a running gun high high possessions. Getting up a lot of threes. That is obviously dissipated over the years and it was supposed to be bully ball. This year was supposed to be. We're going to grind you down. We have these enormous defensive judge or not. That's going to just take away your will to keep playing basketball. So I can they come up with a basketball identity that makes sense with Joel is the centerpiece in forty eight hours four or is this is this just going to be a one and Al and then Brett loses his job and the? The room will start was I think at the very lease their decisions are easier. Now I think like Brown had to make the right decisions in order to make this work, but it's pretty clear and and they made that clear in that second half of the game. I think it was against the magic where embiid just wit into the post and dominated I. I think that's the only way they really can play like maybe they can convince them to get more involved in the pick and roll. But like their options are pretty limited at this point and so I don't know I. This is GonNa Sound Weird coming from me but I'm almost a little optimistic or are a little bit like looking forward to whatever's going to come next year if embiid is indeed healthy, just because I think this is all money like you. You've reached darkest time line I do think like anything good that happens from here on now at the very least will feel nice. Sure. I think they're going to get nuked like I. Think especially the part of the bracket therein, and the way that the teams that they probably will face have looked You know maybe and also let's also mention this because I've been thinking about this sick about this this morning when I was driving around. I was so excited to get basketball back with all the caveats you know we've we've obviously stated I was so excited to have basketball back that I hadn't really even. Thought about what's it like to not do this for three months and then come back and what could have possibly transpired that we don't know about over the last couple of months and you know one thing I completely forgot about was like they're not playing home games. And that was essentially what they built this season on was fortress Philadelphia, and winning practically all of their home games and so these little things like that that I think just never really broke right for them and I'm talking about the season is over as if it's over maybe I shouldn't maybe I should have just Justin's optimism rob I dunno know I mean considering Justin lead with their options are limited, which is just what you WanNa hear going on basketball. I mean, it's it's optimism for various. I. Mean. It really does seem the season does seem so curse in so many ways for them I just when you have a team, that kind of fundamentally has poor spacing by design a little bit. The only way you overcome that is with with good chemistry with good flow things that they don't have both because they've just been on different wavelengths all season because of all the injuries that they've been dealing. With. Until you kind of deal with whatever ancient burial ground, the Wells Fargo Center is built on top of like this. This all seems kind of a moot point to me what needs to change here let's talk about this because this is going to be the inevitable conversation, rob your the pragmatic one among us. So if you're looking at this offseason, they get bounced in the first round, you are the front office. What would you change, I'm tired of we'RE GONNA, take secondary and tertiary ball-handlers another team and pull them together and together they are going to be our point guard like you need a primary ball handler type he doesn't have to have the ball in his hands all the time. You can still run things that have been Simmons if East on the team you can. Run it through beat obviously you can work Josh Richardson and disengage Oh stuff like you need somebody who's secure with the ball in their hands and they had that for a minute would Jimmy Butler at least I know that that whole situation was complicated in in very different ways but you just need a little bit more ball security. All right now the nuclear option charkes. So. Trade I would make. Ben Simmons from Michael Porter and demary. I knew this was coming ahead of time. That's a real heading heart one for me man you know. Ben's watching Ben Simmons at. For the next eight years with Yokich is Nabi. Amazing that those two guys together would be my cardiologist disagrees with you. But that is tempting. John, that is a that is a that'd be a huge return on Simmons. Your you're betting dig on your medical staff. I think between Michael Porter Jr. Embiid is the core of your team that's a lot riding on guys whose medical have been red flagged and red flagged in red flagged pretty much. Every turn didn't Ben Simmons just tears me and her back last. Amid pandemic. People, took Qatar. So their main source of healing these guys is is really drying up. No, I think it's a really intriguing idea. I just don't know what fair value for Ben Simmons is. Anymore I liked Chris I'm just like really high on him. I. Just think like you put them in the right system and all of a sudden he becomes everything we thought he would be I. Just. You're the one who's like when I go into your office or when I used to go into your office, You d like she should have his own team it should it should be like him and and seven shooters. Just. And him pushing the ball up the court and being able then to like defend the Kalis and the whatever's of of another team but it should essentially be built around him. Listen I want suggested trading Joel embiid four like Landry Shamet Catholic Som. Talking about the same more is. Very much in on that, but here's the thing. I'm just a little bomb that we got robbed of this little mini period where we got to see what Brown wanted to do and I do wonder if because of this, the sixers now have reasoning to just nip around the edges to do something like rob suggested maybe try to solve the ball handling situation maybe move to buy Harris to open up a little bit more playing time for some of their big. So Horford can can maybe just find settle into more of a role. Like This team over the next couple of weeks Al Horford, 'cause if if that happens, it means either Horford is actually good and still has some gas in the take and he's exactly what he was supposed to be, which is relief on the on the frontline for for embiid in terms of being able to soak up some like defensive center minutes if that's what they want him to do, and also like southern for him, that's great. It also gives him any trade whatsoever, and if there is a team out there but New Orleans I on the Ricky Spike Eskin had like a really intriguing. Horford to Sacramento trade idea that. Involved Buddy. I I just WANNA see everybody play up to their potential so that we can get ourselves out from under this situation. You know the one I still Kinda. Love. Trading for Chris Paul I don't know if that's viable anymore, and this is like Kevin o'connors idea. So credit to him here but I do wonder if you get someone like that in there and you don't. Like sacrifice your core you don't sacrifice either Ben and embiid. I. Wonder if someone like that could make sense of what they have there. That's pretty much Chris Paul's mole, right? It does make you put them in there. He's like a house flipper you put them in there and he Brings value. Back. into whatever you're establishing. KNOCKS DOWN WALL CREATES AND OPEN FLOOR PLAN To the flow going. Flop starring Chris Paul I think someone like him if not him a lot of sense. But then on the other hand, I don't know of Chris Paul's value is too high. Now I wonder if you have to give up too much even with him, that because is the problem with actually playing basketball and it just it just tweets everything. Is the top NBA player Al Horford is like a back of of of lint and I don't know what Ben Simmons is. I was GONNA say at least with Chris I think you have the benefit in these kinds of discussions of his salary just being so goddamn enormous that you can work your way into all kinds of potential scenarios with the Thunder and the fact that that that franchise is obviously at a pivot point where they could if they chose to move him on just the question of was the market going to be in the salary depressed that a lot I would say though kind of going back to actress are saying about Ben Needing his own team, you know who else knows that? Ben. Simmons. So like is he going to be cool with Chris? Paul coming in and yelling at up in holding the ball while he's in the corner with Chris and devouring pick and roll. I don't think. So it takes a special type of person to want to be yelled at by Chris. Paul and my credit to Shay gilders Alexander. He's done an incredible job of just like learning from him. He's GonNa make it all NBA team in the next three or so because right by the way I missed an open floor court joke before and I'm really mad at myself so just All. Right. Let's wrap it there. That's enough sadness for for now we're going to get into the nuggets but Chris Thank you for joining us guys. Thanks so much. You know. We could have talked about anything but we talked about this anytime I. We'll be back right after this. All right we're back. It's John. It's rob me increases gone to Sulk in the corner which we wish him the best we're going to Newark near Corner here quickly charkes has gone on the Denver Nuggets He has some some data to back his Michael Porter Jr. Take here. So charge you won't take it away looking at the numbers from the bubble I think quarter is really playing out of his mind. He's kind of being the guy we all thought it would be before these injuries. So in his seven games, he's averaging twenty four points and Nine rebounds on fifty, six, forty, six, ninety, six, shooting. So he's basically a six foot ten Steve Nash Right now way shooting the ball and he's a, he's an efficiency machine. So he takes almost half shots in the paint and forty percent which the three point line and this season when he's playing with Yokich, he has a seventy five percent shooting percentage which would lead the entire league over the course of the season like for perspective Mitchell Robinson's number one at seventy, two, point six and all he does dunk and porter is more efficient shooting threes than he has dunking. So I think like we see with porter the reason he didn't play much arguing this season is because he makes defensive mistakes he has a lot of veterans ahead of them, but ultimately the ways playing now, he kind of has to play right 'cause if drawing up in a lab, the guys you want around Yokich, you want long athletic guy who can shoot really well, and if you look at the guys they have now. So That's Jamal Murray Gary Harris will barden they don't really fit any of those criteria. So Murray Harrison Barton they're all six, four, six, five. And none of them are really a plus shooter. So like not only are they not great shooters they're not great defensive players and it's kind of makes you wonder like, what are they doing for this team right so compare those guys to topic perimeter guys the rest of the team's no west. So like give Murray Harrison Barton. So are they better than Houston with Ross Harden? Gordon. No way I baron. Okay. See with Chris Paul S G. Dennis Schroder. Probably Not Utah Has Donald Mitchell Mike. Conley Joe Ingles Dallas has Luca alone but all the guys Denver Portland has dame CJ and Carmelo and remember last year Portland killed under with regards. So like you look at this team Denver, probably has the worst guards of the top eighteen of the middle middle, sixteen, Michigan three, two one if look at this team Denver probably has the three worst the worst guards of all the teams in their range in the west and I think that's why no one really is taking them that seriously. And like you look at Yokich. So I think that people don't realize about Yokich. How much easier he makes life for his teammates and this year in terms of touches per game, and the bubble Yokich is number two at one, hundred, six hutches per game behind Luca at one, twenty three, and you have dame John Lebron and all those guys hold the ball for at least eight seconds of Game Yokich whole eight seconds left three two. One all those guys hold a ball for like eight eight seconds of possession on average, whereas Yokich holds it for less than five. So what that tells you is is your which is constantly passing the ball to his teammates and they don't have to really do anything because they're he's setting them up without holding the ball. So he gets get it'd be the first option without having any first option responsibility so. Basically what I'm saying is I feel like any guards could succeed with Yoga Center. He's that good player, and if that's the case why not play bigger longer defenders around him. So instead of playing, you know three, six, four guys, they use the lineup and the bubble is Oklahoma City where they played Yokich Paul Millsap Jeremy Grant Mike reporter that seven, foot, six, eight, six, nine, six, ten, they are plus twenty. One in like twelve minutes that's not a lot. But how do you guard that team? How can you score on them? That's four, six, eight guys, and then holly that with Yokich like I'm looking at Yokich I wanna have as many long athletic players as possible around him I look at him and I look at I think Dirk Nowitzki I think dirks one championship he had tyson, Chandler Shawn Marion Jason Kidd. I. Don't see those players in Denver starting lineup right now at Denver's GonNa WanNa win. I. Think They Really GonNa Change up their whole lineup playing porter playing grant, and really kind of changed the nature of their team. So are you saying that bowl is in the next Jason Kidd? That's the other thing too. We can talk about also. I think what you hit on with porter there and I was actually talking to Tim Connolly this week for a story and work on the fit around Yokich and he asked him basically what you're proposing, what do you want around player like that? He brought up three things a player who has a High Q. Player who can move without the ball a lot of length as much as possible especially since Nicole is not you know the most agile guy on the planet. And as much shooting as you can get these like this. Again, this is not revolutionary thinking, but those three things, what are those things have in common their all part of Michael Porter Jr. Skillset like this is a guy who knows how to move who is a gigantic passing target for Yokich who shoots the hell out of the ball or at least doing that right now. And really presents a lot of mash up problems in in terms of just what you're talking about in ways that Gary Harrison will barton anyone else that Denver can throw on the floor of those positions. Really doesn't if he is this player or at least some reasonable simile of this player, it's just such a transformative piece for Denver to have in terms of raising sealing. The big question is, can he defend? I don't know anybody like He. He's super long that's going to work to his advantage, but he it's pretty clear that he doesn't. He's not quite locked into the rotations of MBA defense all the responsibilities that he would have especially as another kind of big on the floor. If you WANNA play him as more of a four, situationally, he has a lot to learn in that regard but everything else is just so tantalizing that you have to put him in there right now yet sharks trade puerto, junior to Philly. But almost wonder if porter is the exact complement player complimentary player to Yokich that nuggets Juan. Dj Foster had something on the site today just about bubble players who had breakthroughs and whether or not. They're going to continue on into the playoffs and he made this really good point about how the Yokich. Porter pick and roll even if you guard it properly, if you're not as big as them, they're still on a vertical plane where you can't even get to. So it doesn't even matter. So you can guard them perfectly and they still might have the advantage. I, know the Yokich Murray Combo has been pretty spectacular especially on the offense then but I watch porter and Yokich play together and they just have this feel. For the game that it's almost like they've been playing together for a really long time and on top of that, there's just so much bigger and like worst case even though both of them are as defenders, they do that size on them, and so they have that advantage my question for you guys though. So obviously Murray's working his way back into the flow of things after being out for the first few games. Do you think there's enough room in Denver to satisfy both Porter Anne Murray along with Yoga obviously I. Think. So because porter so good off the ball because he can score so quickly and like you were saying, there are times where Yoga's passing the porter cutting a quarterback to the receiver you still over the guy's head, he catches it scores I. think my questions more like do you need Jamal Murray? If yogesh says seven point guard why not put four great defenders around him and try to win games with defense like Murray the stuff he does I feel like is replaceable while like having a six four defender as ultimate going to hurt your team more in the long run it is replaceable to an extent. joe-marie is not a perfect player, and certainly defensively, you could get a lot of upgrades. But in terms of the chemistry, he has with Yokich. Offensively, I don't want to discount that you know it's the way that Yokich plays as you alluded to John is just it empowers everyone around him to be more efficient than they are but it also has this kind of allusion where everyone feels involved not just because he's passing it to them all the time but like when you run a Dribble handoff, for example, between Marian, Yokich. You get the best of both worlds you get Yokich and his vision and his effect on the game but you also get murray feeling involved and feeling confident and feeling in rhythm in a way that they have a lot of good kind of throwback action between them marite like Murray to his credit knows how to cut and reverse and work that stuff really well. And especially coming off this conversation about Philly I think. It's easy to gloss over some of the nuance of that stuff and just say, oh, like a Josh Richardson type can do that. Let's get someone in here who can defend a little better new also shoots handles at a at a reasonable clip I. Think what Murray does is pretty important for them. That's not to say you couldn't improve upon it's not to say you could make a trade that could get them a better. You know point guard or quote unquote. Point Guard depending on how you structure your offense I. Think he does have you know there is a pretty good value add there for him I guess to bring it all back to talk about last segment I just look at it and I think if I could get Ben Simmons a five position defender with Yokich is feel like, Simmons, and Yokich get them on the same team I'm thinking multiple championships like I'm thinking big picture like A. Yokich Murray Team Mba Conference finals let's get some real here. You Got Simmons for five years a long term contract and Q magin those two guys pushing the pace passing off each other I really feel like the Yokich cinnaminson better than you with we're better than Simmons and by a significant margin contracts can pay for a lot of surgery you know. Yeah I don't know I kinda. WanNa see Denver make this work with Puerto Junior. They've done an excellent job of the past two years of just taking calculated risks. Obviously they had success tapping into the international market with Yokich and and Both of whom are just like. Just killing it in the bubble and I think it's just a credit to Tim Conway and the staff there. Obviously, our tourists went to Chicago as a result of evolve is good moves there but they've done a good job of late drafting guys with injuries a little bit lower than they might have been had. They not had those existing injuries some week Beasley right. He's a guy who fell in the draft a little bit because. Of, that importer was there for everyone to take especially the clippers who had two picks right there. They ended up with Shay trading for Shea with the Hornets, which was was a godsend in was the right pick. But with the back end, imagine what the clippers with Michael Porter Jr. instead of Jerome Robinson I duNno Denver continues to make these little moves on the fringes enhance the bigger picture and I think they deserve a lot of. Credit for that, where do you see Denver with this team this year in the playoffs like if they're gonNA be at three and possibly play either Dallas Utah or Oklahoma City a lot of it depends on porter and and it kind of comes back to that context you're laying out John of how far can a Yokich Murray team go and it depends on if you think of it that way or if you think of it is How far can a Yokich Porter Murray team go because all of a sudden the ceiling for that team is so much higher. There's so much more complex, but at the same time banking on baking on a guy with his experience level or lack thereof being thrown into the fire of a playoff series went as just mentioning his defense can exactly trusted at this point I. See. DENVER. As being a team that can win a round beyond. That I would start to get a little bit suspect just because a lot would have to break in their favor and there are definitely some matchups on the board that don't suit them particularly well yeah. My question is who's available because that's been their big question the past two weeks and into seems like even though they've got guys in there still seems to be just a general unrest among stat Rosser we're not totally sure who's GonNa. Play Win I know Jamal Murray made his return over the weekend but even he clearly didn't seem like he was back into game shape and I wonder what's going to happen next week these Games are coming. So quickly now I wonder if all the guys they need and there are going to be available and then the old concerns are going to creep in what is Gary Harris going to give them and that's a guy. Who's going who has in the past played a key role for them needs to continue to it and so yeah, I agree with Rob Bet they kinda need to step up here and that's kind of a risky situation where you need effectively a rookie who still working through his own injuries in his past to really carry. But I will say just as like a flip side to that when porter is on the floor they play with. An energy that I think they lack at times. There's just something on the court that POPs and it's I don't know if it star presence I don't know if it's just he makes offense work a little bit more seamlessly if the defense has a crowd him because and leaves everyone else a little bit more open, but that team seems way more thrilling. Puerto on the floor. So maybe there's something they can ride their I don't know. I think it just goes back to it's just really hard to guard a six foot ten wing who can shoot us off the dribble and score at the. Rim. The defense all the sudden has got work so much harder just to account for me round the floor yet. Let me tell you Puerto. We'll take those shots I can tell you. I've seen him just ribble down the core and then just pull up and he makes them most of the time to his credit. So all the sudden the nuggets are one of the more fascinating watches in the NBA. I think they kinda fallen into this Malays whereas like kind of seen this before like it really comes down to whether or not the same existing pieces work together a little bit better so. At the very least think they're going to be super intriguing going into the arrest of a the stretch here That's a good place to end it next week, we'll be back and we'll have playoff basketball. Finally in August. So we will be back next Wednesday the three of us in different guests until then for John and rob and myself and Steve on the production, we'll see next time. Basketball is very good. Fall.

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Blame The Butler

High Noon

21:53 min | 2 years ago

Blame The Butler

"And the news yesterday by me at that time I come in here and I was just like, look, man. If his tests, they'll start stepping it up. In fact, I brought the whole thirteen out here. We did a whole shelves best show daily. I'm cat. I Andrew Wiggins and this. I don't know if you are, but I know that I am not lie know that I am the most God gifted player on this team. I know I am those towns declare on this team even if my performance may not show it. Sometimes you don't think. Deep down. I wanna think that, but you do play hard dupe patronize me. Don't. Jimmy Butler. Bomani Jones is the first name because the timber wolves have canceled practice today after the chaos of yesterday which included Butler yelling at Minnesota's, GM's Laden you need, you can win without any also shouted about Karl Anthony towns and Andrew Wiggins. The bleep they soft. Let's listen to the man himself. This is true. I didn't go at those. One of them came at meet, try cat. Cat came at meat. We're up in practice. He's anybody can get this work. I said, do it to me. That's all that I said. I said every time, I guess, wished out on you. Am I being tough? Yeah. Yeah, that's why I am not the most talented player lose the most not cat, who's God gifted player on the team's wigs, we've got the longest arms. Biggest hands can jump the highest running facets, but like who plays the hardest me. This is a mazing. Where do you wanna start? Basically, Jimmy Butler San noble music from the sucks. No one news it from the suckers, right? He's declared play fourteen full of sucker because the only way that you can put yourself as he did reportedly in this practice is if you believe that you yourself are surrounded by suckers. He's tried to get out of there in large part because he believed they, he is surrounded by suckers and I've tried to figure out where to go after that because there's so many different places we can go. But think about the image of Jimmy Butler walking in late and our life. He says, y'all got me for an hour. You points to Lou all, dang, and James Nunnelee Jerry Terrell a two way contract guy. Exactly those guys on the floor and the my favorite detail vote is that the June besides Jimmy Butler is mostly quiet. It is that man with a megaphone and Karl Anthony towns to your description of alleged sucker schnaps. Those in confront him does not go back at him. The very thing that Jimmy is daring him to do. He does not. Apparently what of the reports was that they huddled up at the end of practice across talking about how people need to learn to keep their emotions check. Is this your king right? Like I feel like Jimmy Butler did this is seemingly partially the play it right, but even if it wasn't, he's basically looked at the two of those dudes or like, are these your kings? Right? Because the question I feel like Minnesota has to ask themselves assigned for trading Jimmy Butler what they should have done. All right. After Jimmy Butler is gone, you have built your team. Mm-hmm. Around these dudes and not. Now, one of them said a word we Jimmy Butler wealthy and pulp the whole house that said, my other favorite detail is that the end Andrew Wiggins did give him dab by hand? Yes, he did sort of maybe got Jimmy was trying to go for, but but man, this dude, Karl Anthony towns is twenty two. He should not be a lost cause. But at this point after you see how people are talking about you, Karl Anthony towns. You need to come out here and say something to the people because your image is so rulings, right? It's too late. He didn't need to say something to the people. He needed to say something to that dude right there when that do who was about five inches shorter than towns somewhere. Dead zone was like, I'm gonna guard you and I'm gonna shut you down and you're kicking the ball back out while. No, it can't be that he's beating the first team with dudes off the street and the carcass of Luo. Dang, yeah. No, no, no, no, no, this is all been. This is actually my favorite part of this. Jimmy Butler. Again, this interview with Rachel Nichols with what his read is that Ditto thought about all of this, watch that. I went into practice day competed and right now I noted he's in there, Basel, he locked his door and he's smiling. He's laughing. I know you. I love you. You think he's happening today? I mean, he lies rotation man until y'all. He likes. Thing to me is he's right about that. And I say that he's right about that because stamp ain't Gundy did a report sportscenter that basically said that a source told him it was the best practice that they had because quietly, it seems clear things. He's coaching a bunch of suckers to and he's like Jimmy mantle. Leave me alone here with these suckers and I don't mean to call them suckers need them to give me a reason to believe that they not suckers people who display the behavior of suckers. And this does remind me now, right? Because there is some gladiator Butler yesterday in practice. There's also kind of George Costanza the guys driving around the parking lot with the World Series trophy attach daring them to get rid of him. And now we're hearing Shams is reporting that a players only meeting has been held. Who called him who called you. Jimmy Butler go-to players only beating what I don't know what to make of this. I know that in that interview, he says that, you know, he thinks it's fixable, but he doesn't think it will be fixed is he now resigned to the fates of the Minnesota temporal. Although he told them if he telling them in this meeting that he is in fact willing to compete with them, he will compete with them the at that happens these dues though, bring themselves up to the level that Jimmy Butler has determined that they need to be, what is this? What? Why does he still play for them? It is bizarre to me. I remember talking man, I remember interviewing Jimmy Butler in two thousand ten, right? If people don't understand how serious about this Quincy pond Dexter, the immortal pond Dexter, knock Marquette out the year before Jimmy Butler was guarding him. Jimmy Butler took a j peg printed out, hung it on the back of his dorm room door and said, never again, he's hyper competitive. Is he this competitive to wanna play with these guys? Just those guys. What do y'all do like to me? This is not about Jimmy Butler. This is about the dues, let it happen. The eagles struggled to and three Super Bowl. Champs play a desperate one of four giant team tonight. Bob low is one of these teams, these victory the most tonight. I mean, my instinct because the giants lost on that sixty three hard field goal by Graham Gano that it's the giants they need this. But part of me now believes that the giants need to do the thing where they raised tanking without actually saying it out loud because the mistake, the giants made Bo and I think we can both agree on this is that saquon Barkley is not the guy to make them a playoff team in the present. And if that's the case, then means you, I manning probably isn't long for this team either. He is playing terribly. So do you try and get that number one overall, pick the kid from Oregon, get your quarterback, treat this as a law season because they're still in this terrible division, but should they want to be? That's where I'm I don't know if they should. Their problem is this isn't the NBA where you could just magically say saquon Barkley is out with flu like symptoms for the next three months. And you don't have that option of you can't do it in this way. And you can't tell guys who were literally risking their lives in order to job there were trying to lose. Now I agree with you. The eagles need this win more than the giants. Because what in the world of the giants actually playing for right now, the eagles are at a place, two and three. I think the percentage likelihood of making the playoffs there is something around twenty one percent. They are officially up against the try to get there that being said, they play into division with a bunch of mediocre teams. But if the eagles go down two and four and that is in part because they lost this game, the giants, we cannot look at them as a legitimate Super Bowl contender. No, if they go to and four at that point, I think we realize that a lot of the things that had to break right for this team just did it and it's a lost cause because they have some good things going for them, their pass rush and terms of pressure on the quarterback. Still, I believe the best in the league per pro football focus. There are many reasons why this team which scored twenty four points. Twelve times during the regular season has done it zero times this season, but should be able to do it against this team. But yeah, if they lose to the. Giants. I wanna be on, but they're making me. Last name, Hugh Jackson, the Browns coach was asked about alleged Steelers, fans knew dog visiting Cleveland's practice yesterday and Hugh didn't seem like he's really here for Brown's bandwagon fans. That's. That's. No snoop is I've known him for quite a while. He's been around some other places I've been. I won't say what team say four, but at the same time they were going to be a lot of people that want to come be on this wagon when the wagon gets rolling and we go circle the wagon. I know that because I didn't see any of these people last two years know I'm still the same guy still new all these people fryer to this year. What do you make a coach Jackson there? All right. Also feel like I don't feel like the fact that you didn't see them before and see them. Now is an indicator they're jumping on the bandwagon says more about the fact shower. A bunch of girls lose. Nobody wants to be seeing hanging out with a budget groves and losers. Not a thing I ask is snoop housi- so good at this because we don't look at him in the way that we look at Drake about these things. We don't. We don't view him with the same level of hostility, but affect that. He's around all these teams. I personally need to know, was he already in Cleveland because I'm not going to Cleveland to hang out with the Browns. Sometimes I get emails in my inbox. It's like secret personal sale, dear Pablo sixty percent off. And I'm like, wow, that is for me, that is Hugh Jackson here because here is the list of football teams that's dog has come by and or warn hats jerseys for buck nears partners, chiefs Cowboys eagles Jaguars Packers, patriots raiders, ravens Steelers. I don't know how special Hugh Jackson should feel about this. All I know Bo is that I don't know if he's the position to turn down. Anything, let alone the bandwagon. Yeah. Let me tell you some right fast. Yeah, the buccaneers cardinals chiefs Cowboys eagles Jaguars Packers. Patriots raiders. Ravens Seahawks. Yeah. Those certainly a bandwagon element to him wearing those hats Steelers. It's about something deeper it is. I mean. Well, let you know. That means something a little bit more. He wore a Pittsburgh jersey in the gin and juice video, and I'm just here to tell you is a deeper kinship and relationship to that particular piece of God, but no snoop show up and he'll ride for anybody. He'll rep for anyone because he's as beloved as any man in America. He saw ninety three. You can listen to this show via podcast, go mommy's too. I also have a podcast, but I don't know how to listen to it because I'm. Wouldn't talk about like this show I had to come in and take third straight. What were you talking about. I mean, one time I showed up with somebody else's daddy, and we. About that. I remember that show I quote of the day. If you decide to fire him, you should know that you'll lose me too. Threaten could be Nurmagambetov on Instagram, respond to the UFC cancelling the fight of his training partner and countryman Zubaira took a golf who hit Conor McGregor during the post fight melee if you're Dana white, how'd you respond to that sort of a threat leave? Then that would be my response. Once again as it stands, how beep means something to was in the orbit of Conor McGregor. Right? That's not to say that he's not a better fighter. All right. I'm this is in my world to who knows maybe he's the most entertaining fighter that there is, but fighters are disposable parts by locked, right? And probably in all likelihood, it's there's a reason why he's heading the UFC. He wants to be in the US. He could go somewhere else by what to get some more money, whatever it is, but this is the show right now. Well, he right now is at the peak form of indispensability that he can claim because of McGregor fight. But I also think that he might actually leave isn't just bluster because the other thing he said. Instagram post, and I'll read off this quote and one more thing. You can keep my money that you are withholding you are pretty busy with that. I hope it won't get stuck in your throat. You've defended our honor and this is the most important thing. I think he might leave. I think if I leave, I don't think that that necessarily hurts Dana white if he does. But what's crazy about this to me is that apparently the UFC fighters are taking by and large, the side of a beat, and they're taking the side of the beam because they do see Dana white as yes, a skilled promoter a circus taskmaster of sorts or ringleader. But they also guy who started this whole fight promotion with violence and now is disproportionately punishing this dude when violence comes. Yeah. The only thing I'd say though, like the violence lied. Yeah, you sell fights inside cage, ring, whatever you wanna talk about. Right. There's always been so presumption that outside of it that you're probably not supposed to be beating people up, right? Like they're lying. There lies that you get to draw on that one Molly thing is spiders. All under stand notice about Bob Arum. They didn't notice about Don King. They didn't know about all these other guys. They ultimately went back to work for. I lied yesterday today. I'm telling the truth as Bob Arum once. Here we go. Next quote, I was trying to make plays this year. I'm show. Jatta tend to Kupa becoming jittery shooter this season. Pablo Janas really turns out to be a long distance threat this year. How good could he be the season he could be. I mean, if students shooting forty percent from three, which is a huge jump to make, and I doubt it will happen this season. But if he does, he might be right there with the brawn James as the best player in the league. He can do things that Anthony Davis cannot do. Anthony Davis cannot play point guard Janas Kenyans can handle the ball, do the thing where dribbles twice dunks Kevin Durant is a way better shooter, but Kevin Durant can't do the things that John doesn't terms of being that all around type of two way guy. So really it's up to him, but by God, this guy is the number one player GM's picked in this whole before this season. As the guy you'd wanna start your franchise with for a reason he doesn't have to get to forty, right? Like if he gets to forty, if you try to make a create a player on a video game at all this stuff and him shooting forty percent from three, they won't let you want to distribute in order to do this. What he needs. Somebody told me once about John wall, many years ago, just credible all the needs of credible jump shot. So he's a three point shooter in the realm of thirty five thirty, six percent like in shooting four, five game that's enough, and that really changes the game on what he is. And he then would probably firmly be a top five player in the league that think about the league right now, you call anybody just about a top five player, then you go look, everybody else who's there that such a hard thing to say about anybody not named the broad James Kevin Durant of Steph curry, right now that you're a top five player, right? Last quote Lieutenant, I didn't really see it as that. Said Kyrie Irving in response to a reporter, asking what it was like to be LeBron Lieutenant, but what was your reaction to hearing that? I'd be curious to a little more about what he did see it as if you didn't see it as Lieutenant because I thought Lieutenant was phrasing pretty kindly about what his role was. Lieutenant just give input on decisions and stuff like that was actually a Lieutenant. He might still be there is dead. He was a rookie yell, at least seven years, man. Why are you calling me rook? Yeah. When that dude went to Tom Hanks and said, I'm the captain now. Tom Hanks bidding become a Lieutenant like this guy did not get any word that there would be any sort of deputation process. He thought he was going to be the guy and then he wasn't. And then he later thought that that guy correctly was going to leave and he didn't want to be the last guy left on a sinking ship. So kyri has played this well, but yeah, Lieutenant of the little generous what he might have been. But also we need to give credit mentioned is in his interviews like look, man, everything that you thought was going to happen. Can happen. Lay his move to get out of fleet Lynn was a wise one. Yeah, it was a president wanted. It was absolutely the correct move for him to make four himself. Can you imagine what it would be like to be kyri right now on that team? I right. He could be played with those dudes, or you could be playing on the best top to bottom roster in the yes, they may have given LeBron's locker, the kyri instead of the bunch of towels that they decided to give it to because they are still very angry LeBron, but we underestimate man how much has an ego. I remember when I interviewed him back when he was a rookie he said, I want guys to come to me in Cleveland. Obviously, he decided to do the opposite, but nonetheless, well, also imagine he realized that LeBron couldn't get guys really to come to him in Cleveland angles for you also. So who was the person that wanted to laugh the hardest Jimmy Butler was go ahead. There's somebody who laughs all the time who just down this to be ROY. Derrick rose is not a laugher, but I feel like Derrick rose might have the wisdom to look at that and be like, actually, this is the funniest thing I've ever seen in my entire life. Today's number. Is ted. That is how many points LeBron James's Lakers beat the warriors by last night in the preseason voted. Finally, watching this Lakers team in action leave you thinking they could actually be contender. Good said his game was in the what the pre pre seizes. These. Let me tell you something about the preseason. I generally believe the preseason doesn't matter, and that I drafted that do Ronald Jones in the Tampa Bay Buccaneers my fantasy team because I was like, hey, to preseason, it doesn't matter executives say, I say that say that I don't know if the preseason bad is not, but I don't believe that this team is going to be very good. I don't think they'll be bad, but I don't think they're going to be very good, and you're not gonna convince me of that in this game. I think that could be a top-five seat in the west, I think could be the fifth seed at least what I do agree that Golden State Warriors, man, they don't care about the regular season. So the preseason isn't the greatest judge of how much effort. Either side is gonna give what I liked about this game. Brandon Ingram standing next to Kevin Durant does sell me on Brandon Ingram as a person. Like I get why that dude is someone the Braun might be interested in. I'll tell you this. You talking about be a top five seed in the west. I think they could be a tough three seed in the west. Only two teams in the west last year. One fifty gates, right? I like the timber wolves reshaping up to the number. The west. Jimmy Butler got hurt, so they could be that good. That thing is being three seat in the west is not make you legitimate contender for championship. They get between the actual contenders and everybody else is fast and Lakers are tier two. Close. Here to admit way behind on south. Now. The internet has got loads of laughs from gritty, the new Philadelphia Flyers mascot that ironically looks something psychedelia that's been interviewed the crater greedy by the way. And it's very interesting while reading, I realized that the internet and I were laughing at different things, you guys were laughing at the actual mascot. I thought we were laughing at the fact that they actually call the damn thing gritty, how much more hockey guy is it then do name your mascot? Gritty? Does he have a sidekick name? Deceptive speed is there, is there toughness? What are the other guys that they could have their? Because I feel like the big things go have greedy do greedy is go to tell you one day, and I really hate watching basketball, but I love college basketball rate. Great. But this does remind me like gritty, his kind of the Stephen Colbert type nominal got the in phenomenon for those who are more familiar with the ladder because some people like it because it's a satire, other people just think it's wonderful and all its sincerity. It's gritty sincerity, which is name is great. Ready. The snow, like what you name the thing, ready? Ready to send me a tweet asking while we don't talk about the NHL right way on him to be like Jimmy Butler in hockey, somebody would not for his teeth out name greedy. You're so so popular for all of those reasons that are ridiculous. But in closing, I would like to find out if we're interested in the next episode of the shop on HBO which airs Friday, nine thirty PM on said network. That's watch concerns in my career is just a figure out how to exit gracefully. I've watched people overstay their welcome, and I just don't ever wanna be that guy and that's addictive to the feeling of of victory addicted to the motion of people digesting something that they love and get to a point where I'm feeding them something and they're just like, what helps would help with the with the grace really bow out is having people around you. That was there. I wanna tell you. Either Septimus role or you gotta just you gotta tank? Always, Dwayne. Wait. Oh. What does the broad? Oh, this is what he told way way. I like this. Boy. I'm interested Drake for all of, you know, his millennialism. I want to hear how that guy manages famous celebrity. That seems to be what does. Well, I could have been helpful, but being on the set of Drake was like, I need to figure out when the time to leave is gonna. Hey, how about now. Yes. That's right for the fall off. Why? Wait a fall off coat on top baby. Go out as a champion. Go out like John Elway just go, wow, I don't think. Absolutely his message to basically we won't have now what I think children should look up to feeling. Ordinance.

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The CFP doesn't allow a Gonzaga story to happen; Kentucky isn't making NCAA Tournament; other big weekend takeaways (College Basketball 12/20)

CBS Sports Eye On College Basketball Podcast

1:14:09 hr | 3 weeks ago

The CFP doesn't allow a Gonzaga story to happen; Kentucky isn't making NCAA Tournament; other big weekend takeaways (College Basketball 12/20)

"There it's scary hair sunday. December twenty two thousand twenty. Welcome back to the cbs sports. I on college basketball podcast where we sometimes discuss campbell fighting an league black men rolling the is here with me and we hope you enjoyed another fun weekend of college. Basketball sport where undefeated teams are never omitted from the postseason tournament. My to cincinnati coastal carolina san jose. State the idea that you can win every game you play in college football and still have no shot to compete for national championship regardless of what might happen when you get. That shot is the dumbest thing in american sports. Hopefully we'll fix that some day anyway. The biggest game of the weekend in our sport saturday showdown between gonzaga in iowa. It was not competitive. The top rate zags cruised to a nine eight victory over number three iowa. They led by as many as eighteen points. In the first half they led by as many as twenty points in the second half they led by at least eight points for the final twenty seven minutes and forty five seconds just an awesome performance after an extended layoff because a kobe nineteen issues within the program. Norrland you watch the game. We both talked about it on. Cbs sports hq. What you make a mark. Few zags zero issues at all with iowa in sioux falls south dakota. I'm made of it a couple of things to hit on your very first comment here. I made of it that this is a great a great thing for college basketball because zag i mentioned this on. Cbs sports hq. If you watch us on cbs sports as you on saturday by the way thank you. Parachute ron like. Seven seven times over seven hours and we're hitting with pre game halftime or postgame stuff and one of the things i mention was gonzaga. Can't happen college football You know obviously we have a listenership that that love college. Football college basketball. We probably have just some that are just college. Hoops diehards but college football. And it's cfp committee made an embarrassment of itself on sunday The four teams around have an issue with you. And i agree on this but you made a point on twitter. That's very accurate. It's it's it's the only american sport where if you go undefeated you don't have a chance for a championship and it's not even just that it's just the fact that college football be it with a boise state which had a ceiling or ucf a ceiling or cincinnati which is running into a ceiling. Here zagayev in college football. And that's a damn shame. And i would think at some point They're gonna the these people that run this sport. The conference commissioners the people that organized the bulls are going to realize that you can actually have an eight team playoff. And it's actually going to get the best of both worlds because you'll still have enough urgency in a regular season but still enough know quote unquote fairness to include teams that are deserving of it. But even then. I'm not convinced that an undefeated cincinnati team would be allowed in in an eighteen playoff there so the fact called basketball has a gonzaga that's established itself as the number one team in america. That's made national championship game. That's gotten one seats. That's made running undefeated seasons and received the appropriate amount of respect from coaches people in the industry. The selection committee sure there are these idiotic skeptics out there and i can't wait for these people to surf show themselves again and completely embarrass themselves. If you want to try to try to write off gonzaga this year it's down idiotic but whatever you do you Gonzaga looked awesome. I know you've got a few intriguing and invalid talking points on what they were able to do despite Some of the good players not even being as available or as good as you'd want them to be but this was a dominant beatdown against a good iowa team that shot from three point range jalen suggs established himself as probably the number two player. Maybe right there lagarde's for national player of the year as we talk here on sunday night. What was most interesting to me about the game. Is that iowa got an incredible performance from its all american. Luca garza thirteen eighteen from the field. Thirty points ten rebounds gonzaga's top two scores fouled out of the game. Gonzaga turn the ball over eighteen times. Now what if all. I did if i was sitting here talking saturday morning and i said norlander peeked into the future. Here's some bullet point things they're going to happen in this game. Luca garza's going thirteen of eighteen thirty and ten gonzaga's top. Two scores drew timmy. Corey are both gonna follow out. Gonzaga's gonna turn the ball over eighteen times. What do you think happened in that. Who you think wins that game. I mean blindly. I'm saying i'm saying. I will by about five knowing how good gonzaga's that's my guess. I don't know anything else. Your eye away. You get an an all american performance from an all american. Your opponents top two scores foul out. They turn the ball over eighteen times. They still beat you by eleven. That's ridiculous but that is how good gonzaga is. They were thirteen to twenty six from three. That obviously better than they normally shoot. So the turnovers were an outlier. The three point shooting was a positive outlier and suggs was tremendous twenty point. Twenty seven point seven rebounds four assists three steals incredible block looking like an incredible athlete. Leat who also is an incredible basketball players. Sometimes these things are not the same thing you go. He's a great athlete. Is the agree. Basketball player is a great basketball player. But not a great athlete. Jalen suggs is an incredible athlete. Who has an incredible basketball player. And now you've got some people talking about him as a real threat to the number one overall pick in the two thousand twenty one nba draft. He was terrific. And i said this before. Gonzaga had enough good returning pieces that zag. It was going to be good no matter what. But when you add to that a five star freshman one and done top five pig. That's how you become special guest. Gonzaga team is undeniably special. Suggs is unreal man. He is just so much better than everyone thought he would be. So this is the second straight season in which mark few is told me something and he's been completely wrong about it so last season as an he told many people this was really forthcoming about it. You know after the fact once team was proven to be awesome he. He expressed doubt over his team again. This is going to last season. How good they actually would be. That team was coming off. Losing ryuhachi mira brandon clark josh perkins you know real pieces. He just wasn't sure he thought he'd have a good team but he did not think that the team he had last season was going to be capable of going. Thirty one two By the end of that conference late. And that's in fact. What did when i talked a few. I dunno late october and he also said this. He said it wasn't alad radio station but he basically said jalen suggs is an interesting talent for us. He's hit that little mini wall in the preseason. That every single freshman that we've ever had hits. It's way harder when you get to college. You're playing and we've got guys on this team. We always have juniors and seniors and it just takes a minute like he's not ready yet. I if we had to start a game tomorrow. I wouldn't start him. This is where mark view was in late. October mark is not the kind of coach that will kind of say those things and not mean them. Success outperformed his own head coaches expectations by a mile. Sucks right now is behind garza and then indianapolis indiana story. Sections davis so. He's third in the camp player of the year algorithm and that's a lot of basically The camp so it's not traditional stats as we know them. I think that's accurate. Though and timmy is still way up there. Kiss bird still. He still the most reliable three points. You are technically right. Now is the team's best three point shooter. He went seven of ten. So he's at fifty six percent for the year but on sixteen attempts gaspar shooting forty four point four percent on twenty seven attempts gonzaga's four games in has wins over kansas west. Virginia iowa. Hello those are three top. Ten teams can saga is the best team with the best resume in america right. Now it's gonna play northwestern state on monday and then shortly before we started this podcast. It's actually play another game against northwestern state again on tuesday in advance of its game against virginia on saturday but suggs is unreal. And we've got a long way to go like the one thing that we don't do is analyze these players. Were they going to get drafted basis in the season. I like to talk about mostly. What these dudes mean to their team's player of the year and all american and all that stuff but is undeniable. At this point that suggs is showing that he can be just a flat out. Awesome super valuable college player immediately as a freshman and then he has the skills the strength the speed the shooting ability of the defense the athleticism to immediately be that kind of player who can step into the nba. Be an impact player. I find it hard to believe. At this point barring any kind of injury how even drops out of the top five conversation you're right. He's entering into that number. One conversation overall but i think he's firmly establishing himself as the kind of player who's going to be a really high picking what will be a v. by the way a very good draft much better draft and twenty one than the one we had in twenty real quick on iowa. They enter that game shooting forty percent from three had four players averaging at least fifteen minutes per game were shooting at least fifty percent from three and then they against gonzaga came shot. Four of twenty two from the three point line. Their season percentages now dropped to thirty seven percent. They are still number one in offensive efficiency number eighty two and defense efficiency. That's not good enough and it was obvious against gonzaga gonzaga fifty one point four percent from the field fifty percent from three against iowa. And it's why even though this was a matchup between top three teams when gonzaga got way ahead. It felt like the game was over. Because iowa was never gonna be able to get enough stops to get back into the game and they never got enough stops to get back into that game against zag led by at least eight points for the final twenty seven minutes and forty five seconds so it was an awesome performance from the zags. I didn't knock iowa down in the top. Twenty five and one at all because ultimately was an eleven point loss to the number one team. If i dropped them down from three to four i would have been dropped from below another one loss team. That lost by twelve to gonzaga. That's kansas so. I just kept iowa. Three kansas at four michigan state ran out the top five with gonzaga. Baylor top two by the way you said on. Cbs sports hq sitting right there. I heard you you said. Gonzaga is quote far in a way the best team in the country. Do you think is really far away. Better than baylor. Because kim palm disagrees with you tore vic disagrees with you baylor is actually ahead of gonzaga for whatever it's worth in both those computers right now. That's i did notice this late saturday night. I guess it was That gonzaga was not rated number one. And i i that first of all that means that if those teams i. We're not getting this game. Which is a bummer Because i just don't see how that's going to happen now because a gonzaga is gonna play virginia and baylor's not getting games in this week. They started. They're gonna need a miracle to get that game in which stinks Yeah like okay. So on tuesday. I'm going to debut the power rankings which are different from. Gps rankings. I guess don't worry about it but But anyway the point is i started doing some some some looks. He's on that today. And obviously it's going to be one and baylor is going gonna be number two baylor. I don't know. I don't i don't see i'd far and away all right. Maybe i listen. I said that on. Hq i said the mick. Cronin's in the conversation for the best coaching. Ucla history on hq. You knew i was talking about. I'm not sure our beloved host. Joe really knew what i was doing with that. We have a little fun and hq. But i do. I do like i earlier. Played on neutral tomorrow. My guess is because baylor is ahead of ken palm. That would be like a one. Point favored baylor outcome. But i actually think that the betting markets would give it gonzaga like minus two. And i would taken zag a cover there if it's a seven game series on a neutral court. I think i'm taking gonzaga to win. Four games to two against baylor and the one game baylor one of those two games bailer barely wins and gonzaga like blows amount and three of the other so far and away was laid onto heavy. I'm just. I'm so in on this team there. There's no other team. That has the amount of talent they have perish. I don't think that's even argue at this point because the one team offensively that you could say that about the team. That's still rates number one and offensive efficiency. That just lost to gonzaga by eleven in south dakota it's iowa and even saw like i was really good offense it doesn't have can has so. Yeah i do think that this is just a team on another level. And i think it's going to take one more win against virginia which is completely different opponent than iowa. If configured wins that game wins by double digits. I mean. How much are we going to have left to say so. I know i'm being a bit Long winded in me answering you. But i do think there a sizable gap between gonzaga at baylor. At this point. I'm willing to address if we look up and baylor's really separate in the big twelve are much tougher leagues aga's but i still like gonzaga with a bullet right now. Listen we're talking live on television. You're gonna say things sometimes that you'd rather take back. It's not a big deal. I wasn't ridiculing you as much as i'm just curious i 'cause i you with you in the sense that i think is the best team in the country. It's why i've had him number one since march. They are actually better than i thought they would be. They are overwhelming. I mean they are hand. They're sitting here already win over. Kansas win over iowa win over west virginia and next saturday they can add a win over virginia. At which point we will maybe not you and specifically although we probably will but people will. They'll start wondering not only can this team when a national championship. It's clear they can win. A national championship doesn't mean they will. It's a single image tired of it but like canned gonzaga win a national title. There's no debate. of course. gonzaga can win a national title. This team is also the question will be. Can they become the first undefeated. National champion since indiana and seventy six and once they get past for if they get past. Virginia they will have four wins over teams ranked in the top twenty of the current eight people with zero remaining regular season games against top fifty. Kim pompes i mean they are still doesn't mean they won't lose but they will set up to not lose and so the conversation will shift a little bit so i am with you in the sense that i think is is the best team in the country but they adjusted efficiency. Margin is plus thirty point. Zero eight gonzaga adjusted efficiency margin. It's plus twenty nine point. Eight one and then third on the list is wisconsin at plus twenty five point nine zero. So there is a gap between gonzaga baylor and everybody else but there is not a gap between gonzaga and baylor and by the way baylor return from its covid nineteen pause and decanes estate by thirty one no problem so if you wanna take opportunity to apologize to terry teagle alma mater and the first lady of baylor basketball kelly drew. I'd be happy to give it to you. I'm going to hold off on that for now. Although i believe kelly drew listens to just about every episode here i will remind you that that adjusted efficiency margin is not purely based off of results so far. This season is predictive and measure. And we'll be for another. I mean i don't know what palmer is gonna do in terms of when he's only use data from n. season. But that'll be at least another month so but still i. I will remind you that. I don't care okay. By the way. I think he pulled a cfp move here. I will lose this convincingly and you go you. Go florida gators you. Just don't drop them you just you kept them in the same spot. they're bold. what about what about losing to the number one team means you're not the number three team particularly when the number fourteen loss to the same team by more points. I see what you did there. And and that is an important discrepancy by the way because like the power rankings. That they they asked me to do. They're more like. I do have recent bias with them because that's intentional. It's more like a trend list of hot list. If you will so. I will not have iowa third due to the loss but i'm not gonna drop them out of the top ten. That's not going to happen but based on resume and accomplishment and preseason expectation. I think it is reasonable because i actually did like that game could have actually been like twenty. Three twenty. Four point spread i. I could let it get away and it didn't get away. They were never going to threaten to win but they were. Let's say within shouting distance for pretty much consistently in the final seven eight minutes there and so they kept the margin respectable but they stayed social distance. they day were socially distant from gonzaga. Say socially distant gonzaga. When there's no doubt meantime kentucky dropped to one in five after saturday's seventy five sixty three lost in north carolina. Another awful performance. We'll talk about john. Calipari wildcats next. Check this out support for this. Podcast comes from neutrogena. Hydros does your day last all day. Keep your skin soft smooth all day with neutrogena hydro boost the new highly onic acid serum quenches skin with two sizes of hyler onic. Acid dermatologist recommended glycerin vitamin b. Five and kiwi extract just apply in the morning for weightless fragrance free hydration that reaches nine layers of skin and then seals it in for twenty four hours or parrot with neutrogena hydro boost water gel for four times the hydrating power de-stress rehydrate with premium. Skincare at home. And on your schedule. Neutrogena hydro boost hyler onic. Acid serum stay dewey soft and drenched in hydration learn more at neutrogena dot com. Hey everybody it's elaine. Well welter roth. And i'm hosting a new podcast called built to last by american express where we will dive deep into the stories history and continued legacy of small businesses that shape american culture are debut season will focus on the black owned small businesses. That need our support now. More than ever each episode we feature story of a black business trailblazer that has inspired a modern black. Owned business. first up is kinky. Cole of atlanta's food truck turned restaurant celebrity vegan. We'll also chat with nathan nba cutting edge designer behind the three d digital fashion show. Plus we'll check in with each array are modern day renaissance. We hope that it encourages all of our listeners to support these businesses as well as the black owned businesses in your own communities tune in for these amazing stories and others on spotify apple youtube. Or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. So kentucky dropped two one five saturday. Seventy five sixty three loss to north carolina. Another terrible performance shot twenty three point one percent from three finished with twice as many turnovers as assist to new starting point guard. Clark at three turnovers zero assists five foul so now the wildcats have lost five straight games for the first time since the one thousand nine hundred ninety season they are one in five for the first time since one thousand nine hundred twenty six twenty seven season and it should be noted that only one team has started one and five and received an at large bid the instability tournament since the field expanded to sixty four teams texas in nineteen ninety nine. So it's only happened once and it hasn't happened more than twenty years norlander. How is john. Calipari gonna fix this. Can john calipari fix this. I mean well the one where he can do it did we. Did we see when he broke out. That post-game presser that leather jacket. Yes he decided to turn into. The fawns divorced dad heading. The eagles concert is how i describe that. Look right there and that might be exactly what kentucky needs if it's gonna save this brutal season you know. There was some comparisons about north carolina. Last season kentucky this season blue bloods. You know swooning. North carolina. it was not the same situation if anything it had also started five no one and then the losses kinda start piling up. It's way way different deal here. It's ranked fiftieth. Ken palm right now. I'm not. I'm not sure if that's actually the lowest. It's ever been in the history of that database because the billy. Gillespie years got pretty dark. They're late and i didn't check week by week. So they might have been worse at a certain point during the lowest points of the air. But it is the lowest under cal after kentucky lost bobby mojo in the nit and twenty thirteen. They were forty seventh so They are slipping and slipping fast. Fixing i don't know we'll see i got to two thoughts here. My first thought is we are playing a season in a pandemic. these are freshman. And i really really hope that kentucky fans while wanting to hold cal accountable at large i get all that. Let's not forget the position that these players are in. And if whatever reason it's not working for it's not working okay As far as i'm concerned it's a it's a freebie for for these quote unquote amateur athletes. Who deserve the benefit of the doubt and walk into a huge situation with a lot of expectations. They don't get the benefit of playing in front of twenty thousand plus people at referee know a lot of the perks. That come with going to kentucky are not there this season and i could understand why it's if it gets away from them it's hard to recapture any kind of momentum. You would have had starting in the season. So for terence clark zero assists and olivia knocking down brandon boston stepping in there and and has not lived up to expectations at devon ask. You has got plenty to figure out I hope the fan base is not going to rough on the players. I think that kentucky fans the most. I've actually done that to a to a decent degree. My other thought is kentucky's not going to the end sibley tournament and we are fooling ourselves if we think it's going to happen it's one in five the next game at louisville and if kentucky can win that and we'll obviously preview that later in the week but you know a quick thought is if it can win that then you know winning. That game is sort of stuff. This rivalry is made of helped salvage the season a little bit if you can just beat louisville but as you said before. Texas is the only team to have done this and to expect kentucky with this many freshman. I it's just. It's too far and it's also i brought to semi takeaways on the site saturday night kentucky's in a double edged sword spot here if we think the sec is going to be better than it's been so far this season and we don't really have a lot of evidence that's going to be the case but if we think that's going to be the case and it's going to be better why are we to believe that kentucky you suddenly going to turn into a top three team in the sec. Which it's going to need to do if it wants to get in in an at large situation after trying to overcome a one five. Start or if the sec is still going to be just okay and it's been just okay. It ranks as the fifth best conference in the country right now. Well then the amount of win opportunities that are going to be there for kentucky that are gonna matter like quad one level or quality quad to. It's going to be tough. It's not impossible. But come on our buddies at davis. Listen to this podcast. And we love him for it. So seth i'm going to talk to you right now directly. He said don't panic. He said he said it on. Cbs and he tweeted it. He said kentucky fans don't panic there wasn't five they're not going to the tournament. I don't know where he's coming from. Tell me you agree with me. There's no way this is done right. We're done oh it's definitely time to panic is by the way also said duty on. Of course it's time unless you just say don't panic because we're just not going to panic ever but if you care about this basketball team being do it. It is definitely time to panic. They're not good. And i don't see how they're going to get good enough to be able to submit a resume that's worth an at large bid like there are six top forty kim teams in the sec. Kentucky's not one of them. The idea that they're going to get into a league start. Winning games against teams that are better than the teams that are already losing to. I mean it's possible. I would not going to rule anything out but i wouldn't bet on it and if it was my team i would be panicking. If i were john calipari. i would be panicked. Yeah and one last point on this because kentucky's always if kentucky being this bad there they still stay weirdly relevant but they're just not gonna have a lot of games that That become watch at this point after this after louisville this weekend this is. This is my opinion. I think when you operate a program the way that calbury does and the way that meister chefs because he has been doing. This is inevitable. Okay and there's nothing wrong with it but when you are able to even saying i would do differently because you can easily make a case that john calipari has been top three coach off college basketball since he got to kentucky. I think that's almost an irrefutable case. In my opinion but if you want to be the person that says he's only won one national championship and hold it against him. I think that's a bit unreasonable. Whatever the point. I'm making here. Is that when you reload every single year and you two three or four guys to the draft on an annual basis to me. It's almost a marvel. It hasn't happened sooner like eventually. You're just gonna get a certain group. It's not going to click. It's not gonna work. They're going to be too young. You're not going to have the right person in this part of the right person in that spot. If you're going to try and bring in a transfer they might not have jacob top and not the answer right now olivier sar. Frankly i it's in every other kind of game with him so the fact that it's taken this long since cow got there and implemented this philosophy to how he wants to recruit like it's almost a testament to how good he is. But i just find this. This is just unavoidable. This is the bad year now. You'll take this in exchange for five six seven years when you number one in the polls or you win the sec. Or make a final four. You get a number one seed. But i just don't think this stuff is affordable. We may wind up end up seeing the same exact thing in the same exact season with duke. Let's wake up just a little while longer before we get there. Kentucky's obviously much worse than duke at this point. I think i would disagree with you on this. I don't think you would take this in exchange for five or six seasons like this is never supposed to happen a kentucky. I mean that is the point. I see most kentucky fans making and even some kentucky media which is now being critical of john calipari perhaps for the first time in any sort of real way. They say like listen. Okay you're young. Inexperienced cam brooks's hurt. It's a pandemic you didn't get it on your one in five with the number one recruiting class in in the country at kentucky. This should not happen. These two sentences can both be true. John kerry has been great at kentucky. But you should never be one in five with the number one recruiting class in the country at kentucky. I think both of those things are true. And so you start trying to figure out what has happened here. I think they got caught without a point guard. And then they're the move terence clark on the ball did not work as well as move tyreek evans on the ball. At least not through game one and by the way tears car bidet boston both projected lottery picks on saturday. They were eight of twenty five from the field combined. O of six from three five turnovers three assists project lottery picks. They need to play like it. And those guys did not play like it and then for kentucky as a team. It was just the same stuff. That's the thing it's not like well this time. They you know they turn up all over too much this time. They didn't make shots or this time they got out rebounded. I mean it is the same thing. Every loss can't shoot. Can't take care of the ball on saturday. Three of thirteen from three sixteen turnovers only eight assists same problems. They've had all season bad point. Guard play too. Many turnovers can't make a shot. And then you've got. Cameron fletcher noticeably upset on the bitch about a lack of playing time and john calipari actually addressing that in the post game. And then you've got kion brooks. Did you see this having to speak to the media because play a minute all season. He's the one speaking to the media because nobody else wanted to do it now. That's just weird. I mean that wouldn't happen anywhere i can't. I've never heard of that happening anywhere. Where a player who didn't play addressed the media and nobody else did like you'd have to send somebody out there. These are kids who need to be protected from whatever every relevant player on the kentucky roster who was in that game on. Saturday is an adult. Not a kit is an. That's my other pet peeve by the way canceled with one not to and stop calling college basketball players kids. I see it every day. Oh these kids are these kids. Are that these kids. they're not kids. They're all adults i got. I got three kids in my house. Everybody plays college basketball adult. Stop calling them kids. These are kids. Who need to be protected. Every relevant player on kentucky team that played. Saturday is an adult who has been on a big stage for a while. They should be able to handle a few harmless questions. And it just makes you wonder what is going on with that programs when kentucky can't even submit a player to answer seven questions on zoom after a basketball game again. Not the biggest awarded. I'm not even arguing this on behalf of the media. I don't need to talk to any kentucky players. I don't care. I just think it's weird. That kion brooks sitting there having to answer for what happened in a basketball game. He did not participate in. he's having to answer for what's wrong gonna season in which he hasn't played a single minute. That was a weird look. And if this wasn't a pandemic of cova wasn't happening normally what happens at rupp. Is they send. They have like these These many says where the players the chairs are elevated. And it's like two three or four after a game and the players go out. I figure if this was normal that would have happened. But because it's donald resume and obviously they're one in five. No excuse for it. Sent somebody out there. Send somebody out there. So that was bizarre. Cam brooks doesn't need to answer for any that's the great irony about it. He does not need to answer for any. This dude has not played and yet he steps in and provides You know how much. How much are you going to really get from him. After that was i agree with you. that was just bizarre and i would think And given the size by the kentucky as the biggest beat in the country and For those outside our world beat is in reference to the number of people on the beat on the writing beyond the coverage. Beat there is no In in men's basketball at least there's no other team that has more people employed full-time to cover a program then kentucky and it's throngs of media so i would expect. This will not happen again because something like that happens. You best believe the program is going to hear about it and you just gotta do better and by the way. A place like kentucky. Because you're exactly where there is no program that has covered more intensely by as many people as the kentucky. Men's basketball program. That's not a place where you need to learn to hide after loss like you you you you don't hide. There's no hiding there. But it does speak to the on. The court stuff is a problem and fletcher. Having his issue is a problem no player wanting to make himself available or being told. You must make yourself player. Available is i. Don't want identified it as a problem. But it's weird that it's something that's weird bizarre as you put it. That suggests they real issues and so we'll see where it goes from here. But i'm with you at this point i'd be something close to shock. Kentucky turn this around in a way that had them in the two thousand and twenty one tournament and it is when john says we're inexperienced in young a you know it's all true. He's not lying but it is. It's his job to avoid this if you don't like being this inexperienced then don't be he's in control of the roster grab more transfers recruit more multi your prospects like. I'm not gonna tell hall of fame coach. Who is perhaps the best program builder in the history of the sport. How he should build his roster. That seems absurd but whatever his roster looks like good or bad. He's responsible for it and right now he's got a roster that's got off to a one five start and when i mentioned earlier the local media starting to really question him in a way that i wanna be clear might not be the first time ever. But it's the first time i ever. I can remember seeing it so public. You know matt jones. Who's powerful voice in. That state has been very critical cal. Talker had a column for the athletic. That question john specifically and was was was pretty critical. And so you know. It's flip it on john a little bit not to the point where he's on the hot seat or anything like that you know. He's not he's this is not a billy. Gillespie situation st. Louis jerry tipton. That's the biggest thing candidates jerry tipped and once you lose jerry tipton. It's over so let's keep. I don't know i don't know if that's true exactly like jerry's pretty straight out like he's one of the beloved Figures in all of college basketball covers. But i do. I don't even think matt would disagree with this love kentucky basketball and so he he leans a certain way understandably. I'm not even being critical of it but like when you lose them. You you might. I don't know that you have a problem like it's going to cause to your job but when you lose him it's it's a pretty good indication that things are are not going well and the point matt has made. I've seen him make it multiple times. I think is impossible to argue against. This should not happen kentucky. You should not be one in five kentucky under any circumstances and you certainly shouldn't be one in five at kentucky when you just enrolled the number one recruiting class in america. Things are surprisingly bad. And i know there's some people out there that are like hey kentucky doesn't matter why are you talking about. Here's the kentucky always matters you just if you were tweeting me right now saying kentucky doesn't matter you're just wrong kentucky always matters when kentucky's great they matter when kentucky kentucky is a nightmare they matter. You could argue. Nothing matters in college basketball more than kentucky and so if we were doing a list of top ten stories in the sport right now kentucky being this bad i mean might honestly be number one on that list. It's it's at the because it's just unprecedented at this point For sure all right. What else unless you're gonna head on because we have we have we have a bevy a buffet of interesting results. What stuck out tucci wanna balance through a few other notable gains from the weekend before we get out of here. Let's start with this played. Its first game in the big east. Since march two thousand and thirteen on sunday a win would have maybe bounced the huskies into the top. Twenty five because it would have been a win over creighton which is ranked ninth in the country to improve to four. No but they lost seventy six seventy four in overtime after being up. Four points with fourteen seconds left in regulation. Did you see any of this deadline. Day i did actually was. I had a dual tv situation. Going on watch bears try and keep their playoff hopes alive and then yukon really have a wonderful opportunity. I did see a. you're gonna lay it out for the audience here you're gonna get the play by play. Yeah so the. Huskies are up four with fourteen seconds. Left in regulation. Then marcus gets a layup. Cut it to two thirteen seconds left. Quick fao like a million times in any basketball game you. Rj cole goes to the other end mrs to heathrow's throws so it still a two point game. Damian jefferson scored in the final second to force. Ot and then you can't could not make a shot in overtime. Huskies miss seven of the first eight shots. In the extra period. Loose seventy six seventy four. James polk was great fi while ended up with forty in the laws. He started missing shots like everybody else in overtime so it was a fun game and one that you can. I don't wanna say joke that away but you can. If you want to think it was a game they had seemingly one and and now it's a lost so whatever was going to come with a forno start win over top ten team for national ranking. That'll have to wait book night. Drops forty on a team with the preseason big east player of the year. Marcus raskin who has been good but not great so far. Fourteen point seven points. Five point seven assists three point. One boards Heading into sunday there and he was just okay against yukon there and yeah you mentioned that lay up he had to go to the hoop there. so you can ask let it slip through and now there's going to be hard to ask them to go and make that return trip against creighton if and when they're able to do that And try and seal a win there. You got a top ten team in your own building and you couldn't get it out that was That was a bummer. But yes this was a big day for uconn fans. I as you mentioned first biggest game in ages since two thousand thirteen now they're back in the fold and so on a certain level that was worth that was worth celebrating My only complaint is that it feels like yukon's first big game back in the big east should have been against georgetown or providence. Traditional big team. It's like you can't against creighton. Just i mean it was. Great and creighton is very much important member of the big east raining. Kobe's chance but you kind of the big east. I needed to see saint. John's something other than one of the more recent additions to the league. Minor complaint but but complaint and can we stick in the big east here. I agree with you by the way the only two programs further apart the big creighton providence. so yeah somewhere somewhere in the region i hear ya but scheduling kovin so all right. How about this xavier seven. Ano- xavier know xavier's eight. No no zero two eight now. I'm actually looking at the video. I'm going to play. This is a wonderful this. I was best buzzer beater. So far this season. I think and a wonderful call. Courtesy of fox sports run. Here's how xavier. Adam kunkle by way of rick bird and belmont one against marquette on sunday afternoon. Oh my goodness what a wonderful first of all the shots crazy. If you haven't seen it it's a scramble situation step back three at the horn. The kind of shot we. We love Best saved and served in march and it came here five days before christmas cocos are real deal player by the way and xavier knew it got a good one when he transferred out of belmont joined ex- and That was a that game. I missed most of. I caught it near the end. And that was wonderfully bonkers. Xavier's living a charmed life at the moment by the way it is Trivia time here we go. i forgot i ask you. This came right into it though. Xavier no cheating no cina xavier eight. Know what's the only other team right now with eight wins against division one competition. Now saint louis billikens. You're halfway there now. Saint louis is six now prayer. Saint mary's eight months saint mary and they're on an eight game win. Streak saint mary's eason with a loss against memphis in south dakota and since then they've been rolling their next game against while i comes against san diego state which i have to say. The win streak is over more than a season without a loss. Santo st fell on friday night. Seventy to sixty two at home to byu silence. Please undefeated run over appreciate that. So big win there for saint. Mary's san diego state. Listen undefeated twenty nine hundred twenty season always forever in our podcast. Hearts there but xavier. Yes they are eight no and were able to get a winning marquette team. That seems more vexing by the game. Are you going to put xavier into your top twenty five and one i was. I was accosted in my mentions. I think to kind of pressure you into this. Because if you don't have xavier. I don't see how that's justifiable. Tell me you're going to put them in the rankings. I don't know. I'll tell you what the easiest thing for my top twenty five and one thing that can happen for me is. We're recording this right now. It is eight fifteen eastern. So saint louis is about to play minnesota and then colorado has a game against washington tonight. I have both of those in the twenty st louis in colorado in the twentieth of the top twenty five and if one of them lost i would put xabier in just two just because it's easy easy. It's just easy to do. And i can't justify it but my my my conundrum is what of saint louis wins. What if colorado wins. Do i put xavier in any way. And i could honestly argue it either way. They were picked seven the big east. I had them seventh. You had eight yes right ago so nobody thought they were supposed to be good now. My approach to ranking teams in november and december has always been pretty consistent. I assume you're going if i thought you were going to be good. I assume you're good until you show me multiple times that you're not so that's when i develop the tin spot auto drop for a team ranked seven in the country. That just takes a fluky loss. I don't want to drop them all the way out of the top twenty five and one because they're still clearly one of the best teams in the country. They just lost a forty minute basketball game early before they had the winds to offset so. I assume you're going to be good into show me multiple times. You not likewise. If i assumed you were going to be good. I assume you're not good and by good. I mean top twenty one good until you show me that you are so take what i just said understand. It analyst talk about xavier. They were seven the big east eight. Noah's awesome great record. Eight no with wins over cincinnati oklahoma in marquette but none of those teams are in the top. Thirty five kim palm xavier. Now is forty ninth at kim-pong oklahoma's fortieth marquette's forty seconds cincinnati. Seven seventy first. So a team. That is forty ninth. That can bump as as an eight no team that was projected to finish seventh by me. Eight by you in the big east has wins over zero top thirty five kim pump things. Why does that necessarily make them. A top twenty five and one team or twenty eight. I hear you're saying cincinnati by the way is not that good. It's two and four coming off a loss to georgia by the way. We'll go back to Xavier just a quick second georgia beat cincinnati and basketball eighty sixty eight. on saturday. Those schools play each other in the new new year. Six bowl in football. Will georgia beat cincinnati. More in football than it didn't basketball something to ponder. I hear what you're saying since he's not good oklahoma maybe five in the big twelve and then marquette i mean i persona marquess praises. It's actually three of its past four but it's got a really really nice win at creighton mixed in there so i hear what you're saying. Yes we're going to has fans all up in the business day if you up not to put him in there and i know i know because like fans are fans all they see is eight no and they think we're the best team in the country. You should have us ranked eleventh now. I don't i really don't concern myself. I listen i. I you know it's i'll i know it's coming. You could not listen to what i just said it in argue against me like i promise you if i don't ring xavier and i'm not even saying that i won't. We'll see i'll be late tonight. But if i don't i promise you the fans that will tweet me if i if i said hey join me on zoom for second. I'll talk to you for five minutes. I talk circles around the they would not be able to keep up so my point is simple to the argument against savior is actually well reasoned rooted in real stuff argument. There they would pick seventh in the big east. They're forty nine to kim palm. They have not beaten a single top thirty five team. Obviously no top twenty five teams. Wat- what have they done to show anybody that they're actually a top twenty five or twenty sixteen in the country. Are they a top fifty team in the country. Shore are they top forty team in the country maybe but what have they done to show definitively that they're one of the top twenty six teams in america starting eight. No with three kind of good wins is not necessarily that now. Here's the point. I made on twitter. Now you go to creighton on wednesday win inside the i. Hill center omaha. Now you know with a win over a top tintin now now. There's no debate now. You've got a resume that says rank me but right now i'm still not certain they have a resume that says rang me. So that's the argument against the argument for him. Just there eight no with three pretty good wins like why not so i'll see i. I'm certainly not rooting against my billions. There's no scenario. I'm doing that. But it would be easier for the top twenty five and one if somebody lost tonight opened up spot and you just shoves ab right in there and tell the musketeer fans to celebrate. Paul scruggs got twenty nine points against marquette. He was terrific and has been terrific this season and like you mentioned. I knew you weren't going to be able to type. Adam kunkle on twitter without mentioning rick. Bird damn right. So he's a belmont. Transfers shots to rick burden shouts dylan win lose uncle. That's right that's that's right and yes. Yeah of course. Yeah rick. Perry hall of famer. Of course kidding me kunkle but by the way real quick while. We're in the big east by. The biggie. Said a quadruple header today episode. Still we record this by the way saint. John's about two events lost at georgetown. Yes it was. It's been like all the games. Were great like a watched seton hall providence. Well and we had sandro. Mama kilos feely way too low in our top one hundred one players. He's awesome yeah no he he is. He's you know it's funny. You mentioned that That was a very entertaining. Game goodwin by providence But but big mama who has a great confidence and swag his game like just enjoy watching him play like the kind of guy where you want him on your team. And if he's in the game on your team like you. I think he just boost seton hall's confidence overall and gives them maybe an outsized fun confidence that they can actually win the game Since you mentioned this. I haven't looked at the schedule. This is the case or not or if this was just a random circumstance as they tried to get engaged before christmas but if the big east for whatever if it does. It should should try. Do this by the way. I don't know if it is or isn't but it. It should try and get as many league games. This season on sundays as a can because after the football season sort of wanes a bit It's a good way to sandown not that. There aren't games on sundays. Usually there are but saturday's is always so packed that it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. I just that was. That's what we were following on sunday. But yeah mom who was Spectacular that was a tough loss for the pirates. But but he is wonderful. Where did we. Where did we have him. I'm gonna guess. I'm going to say we had him. You said he's too low like seventy one. Where was he eighty sixth. Yeah that's the one spot behind memphis freshman mussa. Well i know for sure. I had mama had moussa moussa my top one hundred and mahmoud there so i'm going to some of the blame on your shoulder sir i actually if we go back and look at the email threat. I think i was lobbying for mamo earlier than anybody. I think that's probably correct he was. We ended up listening eighty-six. He's awesome like he. Six eleven to forty put it on. He puts it on a floor like got an an one at the buzzer regulation to force the overtime by polluting on the floor in going downhill six eleven to forty good vision. Good passer can shoot. He's gonna play in the nba. I watched him twice in the past week and came away both times going. I don't know where he is. He's not in the mock drafts right. now. I don't believe it certainly not projected as a first round pick he's going to He will play in the nba. He has really really improved. He's been great and they've needed him because they've lost a lot from last season. Most notably miles powell. But we'll see the big east by the way before we transition real quick like villanova's the best teams crayton's probably the second best team and then it's just a y need woj way way more results more data. Points more volume. I don't ask me to rank the teams right now. Because i couldn't even tell you just it just seems like one big jumble which will be fun in the big ten. That was also a big game. On sunday we talked about it. Previewed on fridays podcasts. Rutgers improved a six with ninety one eighty eight victory over illinois. Ron harper junior twenty points on fifteen jacob young added twenty four norlander. You had illinois picked to win the big ten the now five and three overall one in one in the big ten. If you could change that prediction now would you. I don't know what would i would. I don't know if i would now if you what would you change. If you could name the song what would you change if you could. What would you change if you could. I'm going to need you to sing it for me. I can't sing. I think you can try three thousand five hundred miles away. What would you change if you could. I need a phone call series series. Now how do you know this. You got me all twisted advancing that one more time for me. Please three thousand. I'm not seeing by the way. Don't say pairs from singing on the pike. I'm not seeing. I'm not seeing. I'm talking in rhythm thousand five hundred mah okay. What would you change how we could you. Counting crows okay and mazing amazing. Amazing how could you not love it. The more my mind wasn't there but this is wonderful. Wonderful wonderful absolutely love it. I thought you were going to three thousand five hundred twenty five minutes or something rent. I didn't know where you were going. Which isn't even the right number. Okay couple of things first of all you took rutgers to cover and since you took rutgers to cover we are now six thousand three both of us against the spread this season. We are even because we both have indiana it covered. We both carolina it covered. We both had wisconsin which romped louisville biggest win in program history over ranked team wisconsin. Nice when we see a. Don't worry it covered. We disagreed you at iowa can sag and then you took rutgers illinois. I don't know if i would change. Yeah illinois five. And three. And i can't quit. This team. rutgers looked wonderful. It's six no. I don't have the pull up in front of me. I gotta figure it's going to be top fifteen when the poll refreshes on monday. A damn well better be. They've got a wonderful thing going there. Ron harper junior. Has this way about him like he just gets buckets man. He just knows how to score. He is he's a wonderful to watch. He gives hope for everyone. I think and The fact that they've been able to do this in jio baker has not been at full strength is even a bigger testament dusty pikal so I choose to shine a light on rutgers and maybe step off the stage and not put too much attention myself for picking illinois as the best team in the league when it's now five and three still ranked ahead and this is where the predictive stuff comes in illinois still ranked ahead of rutgers at ken. Tom its eleventh rutgers. Eighteenth as we speak here in illinois is facing a road game. winston penn can't win that. Then i'm going to really have to To have some crow served up to me and And go face first into a. But i big ten so good gp but i still gonna take illinois although i will acknowledge that wisconsin iowa and yes rutgers right there with michigan say these are all teams that can be the best team in the league and they're all teams that i think are going gonna be in the conversation for like four or better when we get to selection sunday. It's been it's been awesome weird game illinois shot better than rutgers from the field from the three point line and from the free throw line still. Lost records had more offensive rebounds. Fewer turnovers shut twenty one free throws so that explains it could shot thirty. Six free throws maye twenty-five ila fifteen free throws beta eleven so rutgers outscored illinois by fourteen at the free throw line that's ultimately what decided the game I thought this was interesting. I just noticed it. At a miller is the night freshman at illinois sort of the third leading scorer behind. simone. Kobe colbert. He was o of three zero points in the false ruckers illinois. All three times we've established at the other losses are to missouri. He was one of six for two points in that loss and baylor they lost to baylor. He was two of eleven for four points so he ended the game against rutgers as illinois's third leading score averaging eleven point nine points per game but he's three of twenty from the field and averaging just two points per game in the alliance three losses. I don't know if you can connect all those dots. But he has. He has been good this season really bad in the three losses. And perhaps it's really bad against the you know the better teams. They're playing some interesting early research there. That certainly could mean something. Because i think miller has a very high ceiling and could wind up being extremely important important player even more than he is right now to illinois's Kind of big picture hopes there Decimo has continued to be good. And i think cope coburn's Advanced plenty well. i also think that Entree cabello just isn't on the floor. As much as i wanted to be on the floor i feel like with illinois when he is on the courts Good things tend to happen more frequently. The not and that's purely like he. He's i think it's two things he does tend to turn it over. I understand and he is. He's just a freshman plan behind. Trent frazier a senior. And i think that you know miller also getting time. But i don't know the turnovers can't be ignored under will it figured out but i've watched illinois play against ohio baylor duke missouri. I saw a little bit of minnesota game. And i watched almost all of the rutgers game and this is feeling like a team where it's going to get into the tournaments and if it gets like a four seed it's still going to have. Its record is not going to be indicative. I think of how good the team is. I just i. I think if you're in illinois fan you need to brace for this where you're probably gonna take. The losses are all respectable baylor at missouri at rutgers. Stir all respectable losses. But if you told me that took one or two kind of bad ones and that kind of knocked him down to. It wouldn't surprise me. But i still trust the pieces. They have to make a final four run. Rutgers now six no in the past three wins over syracuse maryland in illinois next up for the scarlet knights at ohio state ohio state. Of course off a win over ucla in the cbs. Sports classic norlander before we get outta here. Remember when we used to go through the apple. Podcast reviews that we would pull out a review and we would share it on the podcast as a way to shout out listeners but also if we're being transparent trying to push more people to leave good ratings and reviews in at apple podcast remember those days. I remember the days. And i am all in favor of people asking us funny interesting questions in the reviews and incorporating that into the podcast. Okay so i went looking at the reviews and i found the tremendous record or at least one that made me smile and share it with it comes from somebody named h town read. That's that's the navy put. I'm not in charge to what type in alias on on apple podcasts. so it's h town red. And he said he was listening to the episode where i explained that the h. hill center in omaha isn't the shy health center omaha ll. It's the c. h. I. health center omaha. That's where creighton plays basketball game. Not but it's typed ca altogether. And so. i was like i didn't as i was explaining on the previous part. I didn't know whether it was shy. Hill center health center. So i went in and started watching a bunch of omaha local newscast on youtube to try to get the correct pronunciation. It c. h. I. health center omaha creighton. Home arena so h tamraz. Listen to this. And he says it just blew his mind because his son was born at. Ci saint luke's hospital in september and he has always assumed it was shy. Saint luke's if you ask them where someone's board he'd say oh he was born he actually said people don't really use the shy or the guy that just say saint louis but if you were to give me exact name of hospital where some was born he would have said shy. Saint luke's so he's just listening randomly like what he had. No idea so. He says he goes grabs. His wife said hey sweetheart name the hospital where our son was born the entire. You know what she said. Shy saint luke's. He told her she was wrong. She was also blown away so as hdl read. Explain if i had not watched hours of omaha newscasts in preparation for this. I guess he would have spent his whole life climbing. Some was born at saint luke's instead of c. h. i. Saint luke's you will not. And this is a quote you will not h town red road get this kind of life changing college basketball coverage anywhere else. Let's let's let's drive around this cul de sac for a second here so love that. I peeked into the reviews a couple of weeks ago. Because i wanted to. I'm happy this. Because i wanted to get I wanna give a shout out to the listeners. Do this and honestly if you guys have questions or whatever i i would love to incorporate this on on sunday podcast today. Today is the ten year anniversary of my first day at cbs. The first day actually wrote a word for cbs sports dot com. It is today december. Twenty twenty ten was my first day and so i thought it only appropriate that. Gps recording podcast here. And as we mentioned. I don't know three weeks ago or so. Gp i had been colleagues with each other Longer than we have with any other person ever so we we work with each other more frequently than anyone else so love the pod. Hope everyone's enjoying i. I have to mention a few things with these reviews though when we tried to guess so. If you took a tour you would have seen when we tried to guess the oldest university in the big ten there were like nine reviews correcting us. It was rutgers and not michigan or something like that which was amazing. I'm going to give a couple more shat first of all. I love the titles of these things things like the under cantor google. It double vision double tennis elbow when we. I think i mentioned bowling. Green and people thought i was talking. A- thought i thought bowling green was in kentucky when it was university. You guys are very funny. But here's a couple more nice ones my first and only review this bill orange in october. I really enjoy the following about your podcast. You don't yell at me like other sports. Pulse gas tanks bell. I like neither gp nor norlander talk over each other respect. We don't for the most part but longtime listeners will realize that that's actually learned behavior because we wanted to talk over each other for years. Both of you guys are extremely well prepared. I give gp more credit for that one. You sprinkle just enough personal stuff in there not too much. Sure you don't overstate things except when gp talks about memphis fair good info on recruits. Keep up the good work guys. And a few more kind words. The cues wouldn't hurt either. Syracuse almost lost a buffalo over the weekend but if they can get done We will absolutely help you out there but we appreciate We appreciate the nice words. Some of these reviews are like you know we take the time to read them. It's super appreciated and Yeah i just wanted to To bring up my appreciation and gratitude for that With with everything the ones i absolutely love are the ones where were people. Listen to a podcast episode. They drop in for jay asking about camel fighting because apparently there. There's no dialogue happening within the reviews to answer your question camel. Fighting is a real thing you can look up. But on one podcast. They started talking about it and it became one of those things where they talk about it for ten to fifteen minutes. You'll figure it out if you listen that's true. My last thing parishes this. A man named quinn reached out and said listen the start of every podcast camel fighting leaky black kind of employed out. Why don't you guys. Why doesn't paris drop a nugget for the listeners. Were like maybe it's camel fighting leaky black for like six weeks but then it becomes to other completely random things. I kinda like that too but because we let's be honest we never talk and for the better. We never talk. Finding on this podcast. It was one podcast where you didn't know the campbell campbell scambos the fighting camels. I don't even think they are the fighting camels anymore. Leaky blacks undergraduate college soon. So it's just something to consider. That's all you know what. I don't know why i started doing that. But what it does in my radio show starts the same way with different words but the same words every it gets me in a rhythm. It's like it's like almost a it gets me. It's like okay. it's almost like a runway. Like this is what happens. Going down the runway and now ready to take off and then we go so i. I think it's just more of i. It's total inside joke for people who've been longtime listeners. Leaky black and campbell fine. We obviously never never talk about camel fighting anymore and we almost never talk about leaky. Black really disappointed in leaky black. If i'm being transparent like it needed him to become something more than he's become still time. But like running out of time. But i i think left up the me we're gonna always open the podcast with camel fighting leaky black. It feels comfortable at. I'd feel uncomfortable doing it any other way. Either way awesome reviews. And i enjoy reading because some of the reviews a really great say we need more awesome reviews like h town red and quinn because the virus deniers have taken over the comet to. Have you noticed that. They haven't taken over but they've made their presence known and this has become a thing. It's the latest i'm going to one star on yelp a restaurant for whatever reason to state the obvious. We respect the lives of others. We believe in science on this podcast. We will not be changing that. So if you're if you feel that you need to legitimately try and better your life. By hopping into an i tunes section to start talking about denying covert or its effects have a blast but the overwhelming majority of our listeners are intelligent people who respects science who believe in science who understand that there are people losing their lives by the thousands and thousands of every single day. We are fortunate enough to be able to do this. Podcast for you. We love our listeners to the very low minority. If you gotta do that whatever you do that the The ones who believe in science and understand the podcast or what it is they greatly outnumber us and we thank you very much right. I'm with you on this like we're in the middle of college basketball season. That is constantly disrupted by pandemic like it or not. The virus in the pandemic are major factors in the season so we will continue to talk about it when appropriate if if you wanna college basketball podcast hosted by dumb dumbs who can only talk about dunks and blocks like go find one. They're out there. I assume that's just not us like we talk about camera fighting. Sometimes we talk about dead legs and tennis elbow. Sometimes we spent ten minutes last friday talking about bill. Can we talk about whatever we talk about. Whatever we feel like. And i think we'll end is right. The overwhelming majority of majority of you. You want it that way. That's why you're here and you've been here for as long as you've been here. But but it's the loud minorities showing up in the apple. Podcasts reviews right now so if some of you could balance that out that would that would be really cool. Maybe you can be the next age town rid all right perish before we get out of here. This happens the like two or three times a season where we try and get this. We try and get the podcast of the people in the schedule. It seems safe. The schedule was not safe. We actually have squeak squeak in and at the end of the pot here. We actually have a significant upset. That is played out here so people listening on monday. No we're talking about but go ahead late on them. I don't score northwestern. Seventy nine michigan state sixty five northwestern led forty three thirty at the break and held on until win by double digits to hand michigan state. Its first loss of the season michigan. State's ranked fourth in the country. I had a fit in the top twenty five and one so they will get the tin spot. Auto drop joe. Houser suffered an injury at the end of the first half but still that doesn't explain why you lose by fourteen points to two northwestern still early michigan state will still be fine but that is obviously a surprising result. From from sunday night i'd say that's notable lankford fouled out he had five man northwestern was viewed as a bottom three teams in the league heading into the season. It's still might wind up being that but you know it's in doing the the prep for the top one hundred one players and doing the prep for the league previews and all that stuff like you. Just get to talking to a few coaches. There wasn't media day that we went to this year. And the one thing i heard from my three or four coaches was kinda share. It like on background so it's not specifically for the record but they kind of say like i don't know how how great northwestern can be in the top seven or eight but they are going to get a couple of wins this year. I just don't see how they won't be able to get a couple of wins. That people think they shouldn't and wouldn't you know it. These coaches tend to know what they're talking about even if they're going to gas up their own league and we get this the situation seventy nine sixty five you know right up on the doorstep of Of christmas here in in the big ten will in fact have Games on christmas day. But that's a that's a damaging lost there for for sure for the conference race and then four michigan state's resume There's no doubt about this. I'm trying to vamp as we talk. This probably qualifies as the biggest upset of the weekend. I think i know michigan state was only favorite right like five or so. But i don't know if there was a a louder upset if you will than than what we had here on sunday night well certainly nothing louder than this. I you know again. The point spread probably wasn't as much as most people would think given that it was a top five quote top five team against a team. Pick near the bottom of the big ten. But kim had a projected score of only michigan state. Seventy seven seventy three. Four point spread interesting. Michigan state entered this game. And they're about the drop soon as kim pump. Updates there this game. Twenty eight can pop. So this is one where you know the computers and the human polls and even my rankings are have been a little bit out of whack. I'm just noticing. This talking about michigan state started eleventh. That can pump in. The preseason won their first six games but dropped to twentieth. Which is not a normal. It's that's an abnormal thing. They had not been performing well while building a a nice record and it apparently on sunday night catches up to them. How about this and we can. You can give the shots and we can get out of here on. This northwestern is coming off a win against quincy of course wherever that is hundred forty eight but it lost by one at home to pit on december nine and then it's only other two wins. Were over arkansas. Pine bluff in chicago state. That's three fifty. One fifty six ken palm and there was just no reason to expect that this was going to happen. Michigan state for everyone listening either late sunday night. Or if you're listening on monday do checkout g. p. top twenty five and one which updates daily of course. I will be interested to see what you do with this team. It's wins against eastern michigan. Adjust okay notre dame team duke team that okay like we'll see and then detroit western michigan and oakland. She said actually hasn't proven all that much to see it now. The duke win is something on saying. It's not completely nothing but Now it's interesting loss to come just ahead of what is a very big game on christmas. Day against wisconsin. That game will be at breslin center. It's the biggest game on christmas on friday. I can already tell you what i'm gonna do with them. They'll get the ten spot auto dropped that i used for teams first bad loss in an attempt to overreact. And say you don't have the quote resume the winds to offset this bad loss. I developed that auto drop a few years ago. I found it to be beneficial so michigan state from five in the top twenty five and one to fifteenth in the top twenty five and one. But you know this is obviously a rough locked in by the way you mentioned western play. Quincy is actually quincy pond dexter. They played they scheduled a non league game against quincy pond dexter and he just had trouble trying to play one five ends up. Losing one hundred forty eight the flip side of it is quincy pond. Extra scored forty eight points against northwestern five days before northwestern upset michigan state but still forty eight points. Weren't going to be enough to get you a victory over a t. Five actual people chefs to quincy von. Dexter shouts to devon daddy's has to justice south carolina shasta terry teagle legend shelves to learn. Now shasta h town read. Thank you listen. Once again to the island college basketball podcast the middle of the dumbest pandemic in my life. Seriously my entire lifetime never felt never dealt with a pandemic this idiotic insane. What we're going through. If you enjoy the podcast. Please tell one person about it if you not subscribe. Please go subscribe anywhere. You subscribe to podcasts including apple podcasts. And if you're over at apple podcasts. Leva nice review five stars a nice comment. That's all asked either way. We're gonna talk to you again on tuesday tuesday morning. It's christmas week. So we're mixing it up a little bit. We're going to talk to you on tuesday morning and then again on christmas eve so check defeat tuesday afternoon till then take dustin. Johnson is your reigning masters champion. So naturally it's time to start preparing for the next edition of a tradition unlike any other the first cut. Dolph podcast on the cbs. Sports podcast network. Is there to take you inside. The ropes on the pga tour join mark. Immelman kyle porter. 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Basketball.Is.Back

The Right Time with Bomani Jones

1:07:32 hr | 2 years ago

Basketball.Is.Back

"Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the right. My name is Bomani Jones. Thanks for listening on the ESPN app app gas, where have you get your podcast? We appreciate it, right. As review was gives five stars. You ought to give us four stars. I'm inclined to think that you are a hater coming up NC double a trial. How come that hasn't really been a big thing. Know people won't me talk about Peter mass. We don't talk about Peterman, but I. Today, did you know that it's toll for six teen? The NBA season is already started as a little town to remember that sort of thing. They want to stress season. How's it? It'd be fewer back to backs and all of this if feels a little bit too early for the season to be starting. But that being said it also feels too early to be forty eight degrees outside, which is what it was when I walked into work today, which is to say, don't nobody care if you think it's too early. Sometimes stuff just happens starting today, thunder warriors, which probably would have been a more interesting game as the second of the double header. If Russell Westbrook were playing, but he still recovering from a knee surgery, but we do have the Sixers and the Celtics. You may recall those guys played in the postseason last year, the Celtics one that in five games. But what as to be disconcerting for the Sixers, when you really think about that is that was without Kyrie Irving that was without Gordon Hayward. Those guys are going to be back like I think that we would all agree. One, two t. Tin, the Celtics are the best team in the NBA. Now, one to six or seven, you're talking about different people perhaps, but one to ten, I don't think anybody's better than the Celtics. Now how much that matters when you get to the playoffs. That becomes his own discussion because the playoffs are really about one through eight, like having all those great guys at the end of the bench. That's not really the way this goals, right? It's one way when we get to the play offs, but I just want to start by taking this opportunity to say, I everybody who talks about how poor in mediocre the east is what is not interesting about the east. Really when you think about this somehow we are interleague remote. People think that the warriors are going to walk to a championship, but will then get in your face and tell you about how weak the east is. Now, how warriors going to a championship, if the west wing week two. Oh, all of a sudden your logic falls apart, doesn't it? Now? I do not believe that the warriors simply going to Walter this. I think the warriors are going to sleep walk through the regular season because they figured out that they can do that. Let us not forget. They had the greatest regular season of all time and that counter for what French call bupkus absolutely nothing, but I'm sitting here looking at the ease. These are all teams that I think are going to give you something interesting to pay attention to this year. They may not all be great, but I think they'll all provide something. That's interesting. Boston thing we'd agree. I mean, that was pretty obvious Philadelphia, Toronto Kawai Leonard joining in over there. I think Cleveland is actually going to be interesting and probably will be a playoff team. They should have enough talent to do that Detroit. I still think that. You're never gonna be able to convince me that having to really big, really talented guys, somehow a problem, especially now about away. Blake Griffin, shoots about thirty five percent from three and shoots about five or six of them a game. I mean, that's a credible. That's credible. It has basically all you need to big guy to beast ended out there is credible, Indiana. Yeah, that's interesting Milwaukee yet. That's interesting. I'm not really owned this trae young wagon, but some of y'all law shout out to Atlanta, Miami. I think that was interesting. Washington always interesting. Teams that I think we could count as being good or at the very least legitimately, talented, the Isa's guy, plenty the west when you go through it like Golden State. Yeah, the Lakers, of course. This is its own thing, right? Here's like the like the, I guess, of the west. The clippers, I guess Phoenix Sacramento, Dallas, even though they got dodgers that's still kind of, I guess, Memphis world. We got deer. Y'all go watch Denver, like air by. I was about halfway decent every is standing up and watching him games like the west bottom of the west is pretty me. Okay. San Antonio, we don't know what the hell that's even going to be. The bottom of that is pretty mediocre. The top is halfway decent, but only forget you don't forget to teams in the Westwood two games last year, two teams to teams in west one fifty games this year. Like we have a broad league that I think creates a lot for us to discuss. And I think at the top of the east, Boston is a team that I think ultimately challenge Golden State when it comes down to it. Depending on what Philadelphia becomes that one will be interesting. Toronto. Does kind of have one of the five best players in the NBA. We can't forget that. Like there's a lot that's going on Indian BA this year, but I'm run some by that. You may find interesting man, Florida. James came up with this. He was looking at four man lineups from last season over the best four man lineups interns in Neta physics you Netafim is plus might as of or one hundred possessions right now we're go over four, nine, five, yes, we know five people play at a time, but you'll get this. You know what? Team has three of the top four of these lineups three of the top four of these top man lineups. The sixers. Yeah, NBC Simmons and Covington. We're number one. Number three. M b Simmons Rettig in Covington and number four. This is where it gets interesting. Simmons Rettig Saric in Covington. No Embiid. But the idea that the Sixers could take 'em bead off the floor and still have a lineup that stacks up just about anybody in the NBA as you tell you a lot about them and we get into the place with them. Now throwing your boy full out there don't none of us know you know, being shoot gave to an off shoot. I know he took shot, but we know if he can shoot, you said your boy full. Who's Boise exact gotta, give them to somebody. We still don't know if he can shoot all the someone's trying to trade him to me in fantasy for someone else. I got whose name currently escapes me, but I said, no. So that just goes to show you how much confidence I haven't Foltz. I am impressed by the fact that you're capable of play fantasy basketball. I just can't do that. It takes too much. I can do football because all you gotta look at that and once or twice a week. Okay. Well, here's the thing though, about fancy basketball now I don't wanna be she'll for fancy basketball, but now you can sit your lineup for the whole week on just one fell swoop just with one click the button. Yeah, so I just play. It's fun. There you go. I ain't got EMMY so I cannot do that myself necessarily, but no, the Sixers, the Sixers are. I mean, they're going to be very interesting because what both of their young guys got exposed against the Celtics not exposed in a way that is necessarily permanent, but we went through the whole year like, so what have been some can't shoot, and then the Celtics are like, oh, here's what happens because. Simmons can't shoot the other thing that happened. There was Embiid and we realized that he's so big and he's so athletic and he can do so many things, but the Celtics are putting dues down there that were banging with him. And if he could make the move immediately, it wasn't there and he get the ball and he back up in Aaron Baynes. It would even be back up in our Horford get the ball, bang, bang, bang, three dribbles, right. But there was no move. There was nothing that he could do like he didn't have that element of Sutton to his game, but is the problem for guy. He's going to rack up. It uses rate of thirty three percent by when he gets the ball, he expects to shoot. That's what he wants to do. Teams go figure out what it is to do with him. They're gonna figure out what the doubles are and he's going to have to make that elevation. And then there's been Simmons where it's not even a matter of whether bins them is going to have to get better at shooting his going to have to get better at like shooting not shooting well, actually doing it like taking a basketball in jumping and hurling it from. Double digit feet away from the basket. He's actually going to have to do that. I can't wait to see how that he balls what happens with Boston. That one is going to be interesting to see what goes on because more interesting data from a man, Florida, James, the thing about kyri as went with that team and they did pretty well without him in the postseason just to be clear the per one hundred possession numbers. They were better retiree on the floor than they were with him off the floor, right? That's no question there. Plus five point three with them on the floor, a plus two point two with him off the floor. They're a much better offense team with on the floor one away point, seven physicist number with them on one on one point. Nine is the officials you never with him off, but they were a better defensive team without him like to the tune of about four and a half points per one hundred possessions that is not an insignificant difference. How they work this all together in that way is going to be interesting to gave you think about this man. Jason Tatum guy used shooting last year on his training with covy this summer. Yeah. So you know what that's gonna mean? Shots? Yes. More shots? Yes. And more shots? Not in the flow of the offense. Yeah. Like, how's this go because kyri Kyrie's not here to get your shot for you. That being said to Boston, have anybody who did that like their best playmaker is Al Horford. That was, I think the thing we learned last year is that their best playmaker was definitely Al Horford. And that's important because Horford is an exceptional playmaker, but also because there aren't there for that, that's that's not what they come here for. So now we're gonna talk about working kyri back in which we're gonna talk about working Gordon, Hayward Beck in, we'll tell you them. And as much as this new generation of kids seems to have a bit of shall we say, spree to core about a, it's great all of us here today. I just wanna play with a bunch of really good players. Everybody's got that how Jaylen Brown and feel about the fact that some of those shots he got used to come in, they're not going to be their house Terry Rozier going to feel about that. Hell, how much playing time is Teri are going to get because Kyrie's back Marcus smart, just signed an extension. How many of these lead guard types do you actually need like? I am fascinated to see how this all goes together because my history of watching the NBA has indicated that it is any rule two week arrive with only one ball. That's it. There's one ball and dunes like shoot dues like to contribute and dunes don't simply want to contribute by existing. Don't wanna simply contribute by setting screams. That's not no. That how this worked like Stevens is going to have to figure this out and look, this ain't coaching Butler. I, this is coaching NBA players with NBA egos and NBA expectations that being said, if they get it rolling as most of us reasonably expect them to do who board it can be scary. They can be scary and they absolutely can be a team that can beat the wars. I don't. I don't see any. I don't really understand how it is that people have watched the last three or four postseasons in just been so convinced that the warriors are so far ahead of the rest of the league that there is no intrigue as to who is going to win the championship. I don't. I just simply do not get it the first year. They won that championship when they got to play everybody. Not having a point guard. Remember that anyway. They were down to one, but the last three series, they were down to one. They're now, of course they came marching back. I don't want to pretend they didn't win these and it wasn't clear in those guys. They were the best team out there, but. It wasn't as though they just ran away from everybody the following season. Of course, you remember this, they were down three one against Oklahoma City came back to win. It were up three one against the Cavs came from a hit to lose it, but the fact that they were they down to somebody that was at three one, but it was the way that Oklahoma City did it. They did not try to do this by playing the same style, a ball of the warriors. They did it with big boys. They did it out there where at cantor and putting them twin tower types out there saying, look, this is going to be with our advantage it and they didn't just wall to anything through the course at last season eight in walk. Then it goes seven when Houston they did. I mean, I don't know. I just don't feel in these years that we've seen warriors do this. They have just been what's the playoff game. So much better than everybody knows regular season team. They got some things figured out and nobody's really been able to bring it to him in that way. But this is also a team last year that ain't man. They had to hold that thing. Now they're going to have more of the weirdness of Kevin Durant with the possibility. Kevin Durant is going to be out of here at the end of the year. None of this prominent. None of this is guaranteed every team that we've seen make a run like this. It's hard to keep together literally, as long as they had. They kept this thing together for four years, keeping a run together for four years. It's hard keeping run together for five show me who's done since Russell. Since the Bill Russell road who's done it. Those Larry bird's Celtics teams, they went to the finals four straight years that Lakers Kobe Shak squad. I mean, the run was really as like four out of five, but they're to three peat. I think there was the last to go three. Well, well, they got a three peat, but then they lost in the second round of that fourth year and they had to retool the whole thing to get charged up to get going for the fifth. And then they lost those NBA finals. So is for me, it's not simply about what are the warriors can three Pete is about this run starts with that twenty fifteen team. It's basically the same team now that they're going to ride out through the through twenty nineteen is just not promise that you keep this whole thing going in that way. So I do not believe that it is really responsible for people to say that this is going to just be, hey, the warriors, nobody can stop them. Now we're going to see how this season goes their teams over there in the east that have a lot. Lot of talent Olot of talent, and Boston can figure out a way to put together a decent defensive lineup that has kyri Irving on the floor. Because one thing about the the warriors, they don't have anybody then gar car. We've learned that. It has not it that whole they keep doing over and over again. Let's set screens until we get Steph curry out here gardens. Somebody that's a team that can pull that off. They got bigger stronger guys. They got Al Horford who is type of guy that you need can do this inside outside as a big man. Like he's not Draymond green, but he's not a terribly different player. I mean, look, they could ask our Horford go our Ben Simmons and Agajabey be and that's what means dre mongering special, right? They got the players that they have. Got this. Oh, and while we talk about all this game, did you hear the lebrons plays for the Lakers Lakers now he's there. He is there. It's starts this year, like as much as LeBron to the Lakers is of course the big story for general audience in it is of course a huge story for basketball fans. In terms of the actual intrigue of the NBA lay germs, who's going to win championships. We got so much stuff that we talk about. Before we even wind up getting LeBron so much that we can talk about before we end up getting LeBron it's amazing this league right now is so good and so strong and so interesting. And you know what makes us league even more interesting. It'd be a lot more interesting if both the Celtics and the pelicans woke up and realized they need to just go ahead and make this Anthony Davis trait. Now. Seriously. What do I know as a Laker fan? I'm hoping that we replace that green jersey with a purple and gold years. Yeah. Well, you know what? Maybe the leg to figure out what they got so they can train to get Anthony Davis. Right? But the way I look at it with Anthony Davis is. Guys in his position don't stay. They don't right. Russell Westbrook I guess is maybe the one that we could talk about, but buying large guys, his positions don't stay. They signed the first extension to get the money, and then the second one that they have in one year, they wanna go somewhere where they can win, do any of us reasonably believed, Oklahoma City mega soft place to with me New Orleans. Sorry, they're they're kind of the same place will they did play in Oklahoma City for a year there after Katrina is correct. There we go. Thanks for helping me out there and no Oklahoma City and not in the world are not these same place there, obviously very different. But in terms of like whether you'd stay there market size and stuff, they say place. As somebody about this, they would like, yeah. Well, you know, I just don't think Dave is gonna turn out the extra money that New Orleans offer him, and I'm like, all these cats turned down extra money to go somewhere else. You had to go win chip. Yeah, they all have even get a guy like why Leonard who had a chip. It was like, just want to get out of here like guys don't typically sign the second deal. If you wanna get a real trae package for a cat, like Anthony Davis now is the time to do what you want to put yourself in a position, not dissimilar from what Utah deal. And they just woke up one day and decided to trade during Williams, right? They got him out of somewhere around two years before his deal was up. So the team that got him wasn't just getting a flat rental, and then they had a chance to sell him on staying. And that is what they ultimately did in Brooklyn with him. With Anthony day and Kyrie Irving nother example, guy who wasn't goes on a second extension, but with Anthony Davis, unless the pelicans and I guess you can't say to yourself, we can't build a winner, right? Not if you got some measure of pride, but unless they really feel like they're gonna be able to build a championship contender with him. Then they need to recognize an Anthony Davis is probably gonna wind up leaving there. He put in his time very con- retires jersey down the Lom shop probably going need. Let do go. If you are the Celtics, you have to look up and you have to realize these rules are not set up for team to have it good players, and everybody gets really attached to who their guys are. You know, like if you if they came up, you'll system or whatever it is, everybody really wants to keep them, hey, man, you're not going to be able to keep all these dudes. I imagined that a couple of them are going to be willing to take a hometown discount on pay cut or something like that, but I still think that his deep is the Celtics are and how you might be able to put together team that can beat warriors. They still don't have a player that I truly believe is of legit, superstar caliber. And yes, that includes kyri if you're familiar with my work, you know my skepticism kyri you know, all the things that I think the Karbi does well, but I don't think if Kyrie Irving is your best player. I don't know how good that makes you as a championship team that being said, fifteen years ago, if you would have told me that Charles, you bills your best player, I would've told you could win a championship. They're either right, but smashed a hat. Anthony Davis has your best player. I feel a little bit different proudly. Dave is is like Eddie Dave's as your best player. Great. Drew holidays your number two player 'Second around probably second round Goan state. You need a really good second best player, right. And you know who's a really good guy to have your second best player kyri Irving. It's really, really good to have him as your second best player. If you have Jason Tatum is at their best player in Gordon Hayward, or is your fourth. And what Al Horford as your fifth hour. Although I think Alborz probably better player than Gordon Hayward and they will. We're talking about Jaylen Brown is your six best player like, oh, we're, we're cooking gas, was we get there? We are realized one hundred percent cooking with gas will they'll have to give up a couple of those nor to get AD. They're probably probably. But let's say, I mean if they want Jaylen Brown, thanks for the memories ghetto. Gordon Hayward, right? Like if if Gordon Hayward is as good as everybody was trying to tell me when they guy Gordon Hayward the thing twice about getting Jaylen Brown out of their scary. Cherry. Yeah, yeah. Go is down there. That's fine. We can make, you know it's good to have them, but he ain't really necessary. There's not a single player other than Jason Tatum that Boston has that I would not trade in order to put together a package to get Anthony Davis, not a single one. Let's say they had to put kyri into thing who would be made, let's say they had to put in the trait, right? All right. Anthony Davis, Jason Tatum. I'm still at the front of them including Kyrenia treated the pelicans all bag. You furious guy. We would be they called into the office for that. Just thought you might. Yeah. So you like jazz. How about bounce music music? Oh, really? What about women with gorgeous? Beautiful accents like that. 'cause got a place which might wanna consider going ooh, bad zone team. He would. He would have his OT, but you'd over that team will be playing. A team will be playing equinoxes or twenty-five fitness or somewhere else. Because kyri eighty show it to the facility. They did that guy. We keep going to practice with the Celtics like little guys. I just wanna stay in shape why? Oh, by new team. No question. No question as we why do? But I think I think the Anthony Davis moved is the mood to be made. I know they thought a great deal about it. I know that. I wonder how last year changed things over the Celtics in the way they perceive themselves. Because what I do know is that they had had talks about, hey, what is the time to get like an Anthony Davis caliber player, like I know that they talked about win that was going to come. But I feel like the second half last season kind of accelerated things with them because they got development out of Brown and Tatum at a time that I don't think they thought they were going to get it because they had to write. They had to become those guys who were ready to step it up in these moment. Like think about this with Celtics right now gate, how many guys do they have that can get their own shots. Kyri can get his own shot. Haywar can get his own shot. I kind of feel Jalen Brown can get his own shot. You'll three dudes that in the playoffs can get their shots. Who does a lot you get Anthony Davis, and you got a guy that can get his own shot and is an elite elite defensive player. I really don't know what it is that they are waiting on. I do not has as we go gave. How many wins you think you'll boys the Lakers are going to be able to get. I think fifty is kind of the Mark where people are like at, you know, over under level and I'll take the over. I don't know. I think around fifty. Keeping my on last year's Cavs. Only one they did they get to fifty or were they right? Hoping the forties. I want to say it's under fifty. That's where they were. That's where they were with LeBron that team last year. This team. I mean, I think that is running a fascinating experiment. What this team is. Honestly team has put together by point guard who just like I want a bunch of guys out there who can get shots. Other people problem is they'll be getting a lot of shots for people who can't shoot. All right. We'll be back to talk about this issue AA trial in just a second. But first these days you could practically get everything on demand, Mike, the right time whenever you want when it's convenient for you, did you know you can even get postage on demand, all you need to stamp dot com stance dot com. You can access all the services of the post office right from your desk when it's convenient for you, buy print real US postage for any letter. Any package using your own predator? All available twenty four hours a day. Seven days a week. Just click print and mail and you're done with how easy it is a really don't get what everyone doesn't do it already stamps dot com. Believing send you a digital scale. So you can wear your letters and packages and print the exact amount of postage here at the right time. We need to send your blog me. Boesch Erz gave doesn't even have to leave his house to get you squared away using stamps dot com. You can do the say right now use bowl Mani for this special offer four week trial includes postage and a digital scale. Don't wait. Go to stamps dot com. Before you do anything. Thing else. Click on the radio microphone at the top of the homepage type impo money, that stamps dot com. Enter Beaumont. All right. So I don't know you guys have heard this paying any attention to this trial, the AA joint with the coaches and players, and the money gave you any internet I have, but that's because I produce the college basketball podcast courtside with Greenberg dockage. This is. Ten fifteen years ago. This is colossal scandal, right? Like fifteen years ago, this is from page everywhere where I am shocked at this is nobody seems to care like, look, I I saw store yesterday that Dan was name Bill self Bill. Self is tied up in the text messages about paying a player, right? Like he is tied up in thing. Do you know where that story was on ESPN dot com. Headlines buried. It was the seventh story numbers. We have a coach's name actually tied up in the payment of players. We have had a Sistan coaches at big time programs whose names have come in directly tied to paying players. Y'all go, nobody cares with Patino. It's like, oh, bookers. Yes, heaven forbid on a college campus but paying players. That's cool. Yeah, it will as the I do think pay players. Cool. Just to be clear. Oh, yeah, I'm just y'all don't lie. Not audio listening to me, you know, selection bias and stuff like that. But the other y'all's, y'all care about this. This is the thing. This is historically been something that everybody wants to shut down and no, no, we're not. We're not getting this. We're not getting any of the reaction. We're not getting like any media coverage whatsoever about this. This is a headline from Yahoo of Dan Wetzel who's done amazing work on this fake affairs charger driving great grandma's, three hundred thousand dollar expense accounts inside a routine day at the hoops trial. Like there's so much material here. So much material that is here is kid Billy Preston who had to Kansas. They'll never actually play the cans because he got tied up in this as some point. He takes his momma and his. And he told his momma too, you know, people don't ask me about two car and he's an texted. You don't know. You don't know how to call was taken care of sit and then she sends again, you hear me all caps. You don't know gave is mama's telling him, don't talk to the police. You don't know who could be watching us right now. I read his mom like y'all loose lips, sink ships. This is not like this is not how I raised, you know, but I'm just like, I, it's not as though the fact that this isn't a bigger story is some measure of progress in the way that we observe these things. We're still all caught up in the wrong stuff. It is. Is this simply a reflection to the of the declining interest in college basketball. I, I kind of feel like it is man, especially this time of year right before the season is even started snot even on people's radars look, man, we got the fifteen thousand dollars if somebody gave the eight when he was in high school, somebody gave what was it? The Andrei homeboy was just getting paid just to be cool with him. Yeah, they they just needed. They needed. Whoever was around him. Dennis Smith got somewhere between forty and eighty thousand dollars of a deed is money. Oh, by the way to sign with Under Armour, ultimately. This dude, gas Nola Brun. He got on a plane with forty gees in cash to give to an NC state assistant to give Dennis Smiths family because the assistant did not trust the game enough for the money to get deer. He had to get it himself. Man. This is not a story like this is not a thing that people are interested in talking about, like I wanna talk about things like this jazz because they are fascinating. Almost feel like I need to do a better job of encapsulating what's going on so that we can go like next week and just talk about it, but a hell of talking about, listen to this headline. Another headline from Yahoo, black ops mission, hoops bag, man details how he offered, quote, help to college basketball programs, like Kansas, Gabe, black ops mission, visited the lead of the story as part of the Adidas America's so called quote, black ops division TJ gas Nola had been explicitly instructed by his bosses not to detail in writing any payouts to high school and college players on the company's behalf. Adidas didn't want any information out there that might find its way to an NCWA case or presumably even federal fraud trial like the one being held here in lower Manhattan. Couple things to consider here. Number one you had to. Tell people not to write down criminal stuff. This is why people watch compliments show billions men like you had to do that. Let's go number two, where I have questions about this lead. I'll never forget. These guys were only looking out for NC double a. investigation. They didn't have any concern about the fish show enough, like what's rights in here. Presumably even a federal fraud trial, they were never thinking about no federal fraud trial. All people were trying to do was trying to stay out of the way the NCW and then the fans came in. Like, what are we doing here? They have tried so hard because you know the case that the fans are making is that these people who have been involved in this shenanigans behavior that they actually defrauded the schools. The schools are being presented as the victims in this case. Did you know that part? No. Yeah. The schools are being presented as the victims accept all the evidence that's coming out here is indicating that the schools are in on the game. We had no idea. This is shocking. Did you see where what's his name? Bill self in the text that he was sending. He made it a point to say in the text, this is just how the game is played. The new reality. Yeah. But then he says, just like at UNC and do because they what he wanted to make sure they understood that Abe see be doing to be doing news, right? Because UNC is an interesting one because UNC is a program has always comported itself with the level of sanctimony that had to come apart when the at the academic stuff came around. Right? Like it was so every time UNC got caught in something I could not stop laughing and the reason I couldn't stop laughing. I went to grad school there. I've been around there yeoman there. So sanctimonious in came all crashing down on them. And now all of a sudden you had to school that it always bragged about how he'd never got it. Is he AA trouble now trying to explain to you that the AA is a crooked corrupt operation whose opinions should not be trusted sommes and how that goes Penn State? They felt the same way. That was bragged about this stuff about having ways he AA violations and all that. Okay. Coup, ROY waves z. become out and been like, man, I don't think this is all of college basketball. He's like, I don't do business like this. I have never gone through anybody who was not a family member or designated by family member as the person to talk to to get through a player, which by the way that part, I believe ROY is adamant about own light, not going through handlers middleman and stuff like that. Like he's got some people that he trusts them eight you guys, he'll trust, but no Roy's adamant about only going through family on stuff. And honestly, they've had recruiting shortcomings to indicate that this is the way that it goes with him, but he says, I've never had a sneaker company recruit for you. I would not be surprised if ROY never told a secret company to recruit for him. But would you think companies just sitting around watching? Not a worry, ROY. Got what you kidding me. What you think Nike leader stuff in the hands or ROY Williams. His moral compass of UNC. He's no. No, you're not gonna sell me on that. Sorry, it's not happening. You like you're not gonna make me believe that the shoe company has never gotten involved in a UNC recruitment, right? Even ROY didn't ask for you. Never go convince me. She chassis got himself in trouble where people got MAG. Cesky did his press conference. And Mike said that this is just a blip and this is not all of college basketball. This is all of college basketball, right? We knows all the college basketball because damn near all college. Basketball is tied up in this game. Creighton was trying to give somebody a hundred thousand dollars that money coming from increasing from the shoe company, right? Mike Creighton. Do you know if you pay a lot more money to get me to go to Creighton because if you willing to pay me one hundred thousand dollars to get me to go to Creighton, EMMY somebody willing to pay me something to go somewhere else right somewhere that is not Creighton don't mean to like a quick gate here, but doesn't this kind of strike as like Rafael Palmeiro on Capitol Hill? I did not take steroids. Yeah, to a degree. Right. Like it to a degree it does. I say I do believe part of what ROY is saying is true. I do believe that or at the very least he believes is true, but I think it's incredibly naive to believe that Nike is never had any involvement in a recruitment evolve into Carolina player. Now she's. Asking what he's like, this isn't a game. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It does feel a little bit. Yeah, I did not have sexual. That woman. Yeah, but you know what? The other thing you gotta remember it's coaches don't bring. Oh, yeah. So you're not gonna get any coach part of the code? Yeah. Yeah. You're not really going to get any coach that goes hard like in that way. That's, that's. That's not going to be it. And also, yeah. Do you're not gonna tell me you're gonna tell me the Nike and had nothing to do with any of these guys that they've been good? Nothing at all, especially in the last. Like what? Five to ten years one and done started drilling into Duke. Yeah, part of the game now. Yeah. Well, I mean part of it, of course, was Duke started. The team USA thing became big. They started getting earlier access the guys. There was reason why chefs he started suggests he stopped showing up to a you tournaments in Duke gear started showing up in USA basketball here, which is Nike. Yeah, do there's that there is that. Yeah. So let's get that outweigh. But she says he's right this blip. There's gonna path college. Basketball has survived much worse than this. I was a watching some of the Dan chloride movie. The basketball love story, which by the way that has been like a super duper push for it on the network, they're running it on different nights, but listen to me, sincerely, if you really like basketball, you're going to love the chlorophyll. I've saw about two hours of it. I went to the premiere of it and you gotta realize there were twelve hall of famers into Bill for that premier, and he's all cats that were in the film and it's not one, long, continuous story. It's a bunch of vignettes that are done, and one of them was on the point shaving scandals in New York City college basketball in the nineteen fifties. Now, that was a thing like that was real. If figured it out, they made it, they survived. Like we've seen these things come up and what the reason that I agree with your shifts that this is a blip yoda's trial, and even a news. The newspaper somewhere, but it's not. It is not part of our consciousness. They Wednesday. So you know you do like sports, elevated sports, radio, whatever it is gave you tested his Wednesdays, things. Content wise, slow news, man wins all our Wednesday is always hard winds day of this week will not get slow enough that this trial is gonna make front center. It's not even with all the what used to be salacious things involved in it and look. And when I say used to be, I don't even mean that long ago I'm talking like five, six, seven years ago, maybe ten. You can still make a big scandal out of something like this, at least in twenty twelve. You'll can't get no traction with this. And I, it makes me think of something that would North Carolina, North Carolina got in trouble. People justifiably had a question it concern as to whether or not this is being ignored because of the strength of the North Carolina brand name and nobody wanted to sully it anymore than it already been sullied Datta dine, all that stuff. Right. And that was a fair question for people. To ask is the question now simply that people don't care and therefore it doesn't get more attention. 'cause like really federal trial with dollar amounts and cars and funny stuff, and you didn't know most of that stuff until I told you right here. All right. I don't really wanna be labor this because sometimes I feel like everyone to buy feel like I'm picking on right, like voice, ample like Kobe Bryant out. He's, he doesn't think that I pick on him, but I understand that a lot of y'all think that I hate Kobe Bryant, and that's not true. Hsien he eight scope. Me. I don't hate Koby. Anymore. There was certainly a time in my life where I could say that I hate Kobe Bryant valid before became the professional that I am. Right, right. Of course not. This is legit though about Kobe. There are very significant things about him that I respect in a very real way a way that goes beyond basketball. You know, I, I've said this on many times I don't know gave you've heard me talk about this, but there's a story about win Dwight play for the Lakers and he's trying to get his get his a game right on free throw line, and he's talking to Kobe about it and he has Kobi what to do and Kobe's sit shoot at the thrills and twice light to shot a million free throws Kobe's like no, shoot at thousand free throws because Dwight had told him that he was afraid of missing. He said, look, shoot, a thousand free throws. You're gonna miss some of those two. Right by over Kobe. The whole thing is being able to take in stride. The fact that sometime you're going to miss to not be afraid of failure. I could argue that he was too unafraid of failure, but I have such a colossal respect for that outlook, right. His thing is I prepare myself for this moment in this moment I will do what I can, and I will live with the results because I prepared for this young man. I have all the respect in the world at Kobe was trying to wrap AC, Kobe go out there and just start somebody question whether or not Coby Coby battle you right there because he was just not afraid of failure. I would be so afraid of making a rap album. Nine say that, but I would be so afraid of making a rap album because I would really just not want you ought to be clowning me. I'll be real about it is on what you ought to be clouded. Kobe ahead in him, and I respect it in a very real way. That being said, he's over eight a basketball player, who is the last of the great volume scores that is a little bit deified by people in a way that makes it impossible to have a rational conversation about what he actually is. He is one of the greatest basketball players of all time. He is nowhere near the discussion of the greatest, but he is one of the greatest and there's no shame and being one of the greatest basketball players of all time. None. Why am I talking about Kobe? That wasn't the plan. I am going to make a transition that a lot of you will find to be hilarious because I am going from talking about Coby and his greatness because I want you to be clear that I believe is great to talk about the least great athlete I have ever talked about, and that would be the Peterman. Peterman had to come into the game because Josh Allen was hurt and Gabe. I don't know if you saw this, but to Peterman led his team to a touchdown. And then through a pick six and then threw another pick after pick six. So he led them to to to the win. And then they had a buck and change left. They got the ball on twenty and they are get ready for the two minute drives game, right? They're about to go. Wind is game. Peterman through a pick that you knew. The second left is hand was pick six. You knew it the db nuit. Everybody knew second through it. Six. Oh, do to pick six. And you know, whenever the Peterman do some, everybody hit me up about it. Right. And I feel bad because I don't want to pick on the Peterman because it's not well two things one. It's not the peterman's fault that his name's Peterman, which the impromptu meet a call him the Peterman. It is also not the peterman's fall today. Keep putting him in games. He don't ask to get him games. He don't request to be into game. They keep putting Peterman in these games that he has no business being in. And that's why just don't want to seem like I'm out here picking on Peter Peterman. I'll go out of my way to find reasons to talk about Peter, you know, I, you engage getting to the people that when you suggested that we talk about Peterman I was like, I really don't know if I got it in me to talk about Peter May. I know. And I said, we've got to give the people what they want to Peterman. So to came out there and forgot indepedence threw another interception after the first pick six. The Peterman is positive, whereas quarterback that I have ever seen. Legitimately he might be the worst quarterback that I've ever seen, and I'm not exaggerating, nose, mouth voices raised about this. He just he just so bad. And now Josh Allen, they say he might be out for weeks, which means they got two options play Peterman play Derek Anderson. Let me tell you something about air gaps. Derek Anderson just spent the last. About five, six years with Panthers. He was Cam Newton's backup. And for those of you who were unaware there was absolutely a segment of the Carolina panther fan base that really thought that they would be better off it. They just put Derek Addison there. I am not lying no dead up dead up. It would not take much for a talk radio, which boy to fill up with people talking about put their against into game. And yes, I said switchboard. Those things still exist gave dig. Addison has played the last seven seasons with the Carolina Panthers seven seasons. The most passes that he threw in a season was ninety seven, and that was in twenty fourteen. And I believe that was the year Cam got hit by that car. You remember that I remember. Yeah. So he started two games that year. He threw fifty three passes in two thousand sixteen. He threw eight passes last season. Dare gander. Sohn is not here to play football. Derek Anderson is here to be on the team. He is thirty five years old. I don't think Derek Anderson actually wants to play. If you were thirty five years old, would you want to actually go out there and play some football. He's got a pretty cushy job right gets paid, doesn't have to play. It's kinda like may stop playing attention as right up in attention. I don't think about this for a second. You remember that game. I think it was last year where Cam done something, and I think it was late to the plane or something like that. And so they suspended him for series the open a series of the game, except they didn't really suspend him for the opening series of the game. They suspended him for open and play it a game, and they helper to open and play the game because the open series was Derek Anderson throwing an interception. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You remember that that they brought Michael Vick into replace Gino Smith. He ate even like not plays dog. He he wasn't there to play. He came to be a mentor. He came to bring donuts. He did not come to play, but now I think Diana Rossini she said that they might have to play Derek Anderson because you can't go look them other cats. I put to Peterman back into game after this, you lose your whole team if you thought a Peterman out there. Remember when they tried to benched tyrod Peterman except they couldn't bench with a Peterman because if they put the Peterman back out there, they lose the whole team. How did you bring Peter? And back this year they brought Peter ban bet. So now is either going to be Peterman or dare gander Sohn who probably doesn't want to be out there playing football. And also, I don't know if you know this guess who has a pretty good defense this year. The Buffalo Bills, right? We talked about them being a potential, oh, in sixteen team. And that was doing that seem to be legit before they went up there and they did what they did against the Vikings where they went up there, but that defense, I think they're one of the top five or six teams in a measure called expected points. It's kind of difficult to explain, but their defense is like, that's a good thing to be in the top five or six in the expected points like that. That is something that you want to be that is a place that you wanna be. I'm trying to find where they are on, but no, they are. They've got a pretty good defense this year. They, I promise you. They do everything else. However, gate stinks to high heaven. And that includes. You know the quarterback situation, so would you, would you think about feedback, but would you the pita banshee? Do. I think that the Peterman should just do what Derek Anderson did before. Don't play me. Man ever don't play me. All right. What are you guys pin attention to me? Let me let me tell you how bad buffalo is Buffalo's defense and is a in his Devi away number that I was giving you. They are seventh in the league in defense of Devia way. They are last in f. l. d. away how bad does your office have to be for that to be the case. You understand what I'm saying here. That's how bad. Oh my God, you're so bit. They are so bad. Did you see also by the way that, oh my God. Listen to this. I don't even understand how these numbers work, but I'll just, I feel like telling you this will will be satisfactory. So you know, eras stinks, right? Arizona's offensive Devia way is negative twenty nine point eight percent. Okay, you women, you hear me. I'm with the Cleveland is negative twenty two. So Cleveland is thirtieth team in the league and negative twenty two. Negative twenty nine point eight is the cardinals guess we're buffalo is. Native one hundred negative fifty one point eight. Oh yes. Yes. Jobs from twenty two to twenty nine to fifty one. That's how bad day are. That's how bad they are. It might be worse with Derek Addison, but deer Aghanistan is not. That that is the job scripted. You see what Peterman got up there and he asked me about it and he's like, I found myself in my faith in Jesus Christ. I do not define myself. Football player would a good man. Yes, sir. Good Christian man right there. I mean, it's time to retire like it's a wrap because he's right on that man. Good for you. Do not define yourself by football. You absolutely should not define yourself as a man as football player, and I applaud him if he is able to really shake this off and not be taken down because he has confidence in himself and his faith, whatever it is, right. I really do applaud him for that, and I applaud him for that because if he did to find himself as a football player, his, he would defy himself like he would be booboo like as a human because he is the most boo. Boo, quarterback I ever seen that would that would that would be booed Peterman that that that would be who he was all the time when he went outside. If he defined himself as defined of football player, you have the right idea buddy. You really, really, really do have the right idea. But the fact that he's talking about this at this point as it is the fact that he's talking about himself like day and we ain't even talking about some anomalous performance. It was just another day at the office. Son all working on your resume. Like I'll mean disrespect, I'm not even picking on you. And honestly, I don't even feel like I need to say this to him. I pretty sure that he is aware of this on his own. I, if I, if I had to guess what he was doing on that law flight black back home from Houston, here's all linked in seeing. Was out there. You got to. Anybody if that is how is going for you, man, you gotta start looking into something else. No matter what it is. I don't out as he did. He finish his degree because if not. Audio quarters at Pittsburgh. Is it too late to get in all on classes? Is it. There's the radio life after something like that happened. You really looking at the rest of your life. So if he needs to finish up his degree, no, seriously, I really want to go up there. Finish up a degree. Maybe you study something allergy, right? Understand what's behind you. Faith do all that. Yeah, I'm with you. Feel free. Go ahead. Get to a place that you wanna be baby pleased because 'cause because. This ain't it. You can't be on top of all the news information of the day. No need for the social media feeds. We got you. Now, if you haven't heard I Monty first story the day comes from using. Hi, I'm Aaron Williams with Uproxx. I'm the hip hop editor, and I wrote a post about Drake appearing on the Brian. James is HBO talk show the shop where LeBron James discusses current events and hot button topics of the day with other athletes and musical figures in an environment modeled after the traditional black barbershop. In this week's episode LeBron spoke with Drake about Drake's explanation for why he backed down in the against push t. Drake's explanation for why he was involved in a beef with pussy and by extension. Kanye west was very intriguing, Drake himself. Out his reactions to push tease this record, the story of Addie Don, how he responded to push tease this is against his family and friends. And of course, the fact that he feels like he is okay with not being accepted by rap purists. So it was a tremendous interest to the overall hip hop community which does overlap with athletes quite often. My thing about it. Man dre started talking like that yoga type, right. Well, he was like, yeah, you know, I didn't put the energy into him. I put that energy into myself and he told the bra. I was afraid that I had let you down by not responding and all of this stuff. And I guess people found to be touching and maybe there really was touching and maybe he did have all those thoughts as to why it is that he chose not to respond by the way. He really hates gonyea like a special way. He really hates gone yet. But yeah, so he did all that. He said all that, and that's fine. But I heard Jay press say that he told Drake, not release. Another wreck. And honestly Drake for me, that was an adequate explanation. I like prince said, wouldn't go beano mode. This is going to be no is you don't. You don't need me. Anything you don't need to sell me on his UNITA mythology is is you don't need to ask. Nobody's forgiving, man told you to stop. Okay. Over on that, that's a wrap. I don't know why you don't understand it. We, we stopped questioning you after that. My third part about it was when Drake look at Braun who is lake. 'cause I texted you, right? I texted you. And I said, what should I do? And you gave me the like the relisted vice ever and it was just like, they looked at each of those like, oh, yeah, because we're boys like that. Right, right. Braun, right, right rewards. Right. If they was really boys, you would have got into locker room after that championship when Drake looking good. You. He's always on the home team right team. All right. Story number two, the day comes from tech. I'm Washington Post tech columnist, Jeffrey. Fowler there's a new video camera out there called the portal that sits in your living room and makes video chats with friends and family look. Great at has just one problem. The portal was made by Mark Zuckerberg last week, Facebook, unveiled this thing, the first ever consumer hardware from the social network. The portal cost, two hundred bucks or three hundred fifty for larger version called the Puerto plus and is kind of a cross between a smart speaker video camera and digital photo frame. It offers a nice upgrade to the Skype or FaceTime video chat experience. Many of us have on a phone or computer the portal sits on a shelf on your kitchen. Counter a met your voice, do the callings. You just ask portal to call any of your Facebook friends. It's got Amazon's Alexa built inside too, and it's got a cool kind of unique trick. Like a personal cinematographer. The camera identifies this group of people and pans zooms to make sure their own. Always in the frame so you can wander around the house into chores, but keep video chatting with mom, but there's an elephant in the room, and that's privacy. Just a few days after Facebook announced the portal also announced a security breach impacted some thirty million accounts and Facebook's privacy and data practices are of course also a matter of congressional inquiry. Facebook does appear to have learned some lessons, Facebook in your friends. Can't just look into your house. Anytime they want the portals video chats are in cryptic and not recorded. The Puerto also has a button on the top. That cuts, it's microphone and camera. So the question is how many people would trust Facebook camera and their house in twenty eighteen. No. Perry nine then not Alexa. No bad enough. I got this damn phone to be reading my mind when I want to search for something. Do you have a a piece of tape over your camera on your phone? No, I don't, but I guess I should, but I feel like it's too late now is to, I feel like anything you see me? No, no, no. I'm not putting a Facebook Facebook spy in my house doesn't does it feel a little too late to you for the for the Facebook portal? I feel like they're trying to capitalize and get into this kind of like Skype market and all that sort of stuff and show them who's boss and make it better and all this stuff. But it's like they kind of took something from like a scifi movie like, oh, you know what? You don't want people used to. They used to hope that they could talk to somebody on screen in their house and it's like kit. They already do that. Here's where I think the the mistake is on this, though, is that people have demonstrated they're willing to give Amazon their data. They don't like the fact that they give it to Facebook. Therefore, then putting yellow Cameron the house. Like, I don't know anybody that there are people who still love Twitter as brand, not only my two loves Facebook. Anybody. Two inch bed PR and it's just gun spooky. Story. Number three of the day actually comes from Amazon in its business. So Amazon wanted to make a tool that would use artificial intelligence define job candidates online. They wanted to Pergamon that would just crawl around the internet, looking for talent and rate those people on a scale of one to five sort of the way a customer rate at toaster Amazon's website. Unfortunately, the experiment didn't really pan out. There are a lot of problems, but one of the big ones was the tool immediately started discriminating against women. And the reason why has to do with the way machine learning works, programmers train algorithms to spot patterns using old data. So when you want to teach a program to recognize a picture of a dog, for instance, you give it a bunch of picks of, you know, retrievers and terriers to learn from in this case, Amazon tried to teach its program to spot good job candidates. I giving it old resumes from people who had applied to the company before. Unfortunately, the tech industry is so heavily dominated by men that the tool learned to prefer male job candidates, Amazon shelved the experiment and says, it's recruiters. Never quote relied solely on its rankings, unquote, but it's a good case study in what can go wrong when you ask computers to make decisions. I just said this thing about Amazon. Here we go. Now that I'll look Amazon still. Wow. Hey, man. Keep this brief redeemed. That's all just doomed what I want, what a, what a robot to hire stupid is that the phony part that I found about this is like, you know, Jordan were saying that they, they use previous resumes to kind of sort out who would be good higher. It's like, oh, nothing's come out about how hiring practices weren't the best maybe in the past and you haven't making it mid any improvements on that. They will understand, man, you know, we talk about right now. D robots, only hire, dude, you know what? He robots go star hiring. Robots. We do. We are doomed. Have you ever watched the game in thought, wow, I didn't know they still play well, you're not alone the right time. We'll go money Jones. Asked the question. Is he still in the league. Oh, NBA is back. Today, and back is the segment still Louis go. So the first one I've got for you, Pablo pre Joni. Yeah, field. Oh, okay. Not in the league, and I only say that because he's got to be like forty three years old. You're correct on? Yes. You're correct on that one next one for you. Pay you? Do. Ooh. You follow me on Twitter. But I have not kept up that closely. Follow him. I'm going to say. In the league. Yes. You're correct on that one with the Utah Jazz currently follow? I do. I feel like though is back in the league. Back in the league after having been out for a minute? Yeah, I feel like he took a look this up. As we sit here. I feel like he, he was outdoors, you know what I'm saying buy when you go out and explore the world. I feel like a lot of times with those type of players, it's like, oh, no, man, I should be getting more playing time. I'm go over to Europe. He did spend a couple of years overseas, Godley outdoors. All right. Next guy got for you. Quincy pond exter-. Ooh, positition quite a while. He's. Yes, he is. Oh, Utah. Currently with the Spurs actually think in Memphis, but he's. Wow, put some respect. What Spurs is doing. Bodies, man, they got to this point. Going to cave last year, put a bull's. Well, you know, maybe they think they're getting Memphis. Quincy pond exter-. Wow, I'm stunned next guy got for you. Gary temple Garrett temple. Yes, I believe he plays with the Washington Wizards. He's with the grizzlies, but he is still in the league. Oh, wow. I mean as being the grizzlies still being in the league, everybody the same thing. Yeah, I don't know. At this point. Makes you wanna got for you. Martell Webster. Wow. Not in the league. You are correct on that one also had to be old now. He's like LeBron's age. He's feel like with those guys that come out of high school, people just think that they're young all the time, you know, and have this kind of Jamal, Crawford thing going for them and it's like, no, no, they do not the age the same as everyone. I will say this though there was like a five year period. I had totally forgot about Joe western. I look up, but I think he was on a team in the playoffs. I was like, when did this happen? Might have been the wizards you might be right. Next one I got for you. Nick council. Nicholson. Okay. So the question is, is new college still play thunder is that's the only team that he would be. That's the question us. Google it. I'm gonna say no. Yes, you're right. He is currently retired. Why did you retire? You retire? You ever seen that picture too? That one wife he hid. I did not know give it a truck. I gotta show to run you man. I'll do that while I'm guessing. One of these give it a try just just just Google Nicholson wife. I just wanna see. Okay, say none of body. Okay. Okay. Next one I got for you tolliver. All right. Now I'm going to stall this out. So that you can Google Nick, collison, wife and look at images. And I'm going to say that on fortunately, I know the answer to this Anthony tolliver as a certain story in the news required me to check out who was there to pertinence personally witness, Jimmy Butler losing his mind. Yeah, that was the dead giveaway. The only reason did you go? I did. I did see a government digit. Especially Nick collison. Sick of it. Either. Boy, nothing better that that real in time reaction. Next one I got for you, Jared, Dudley Jared, Dudley. Is this the last one one more go to the other one just because Jay deli at the US open. And so he told me he was playing put in it. You know what I you ra- mentioned that you mentioned that unappreciative podcast that was a slip by me. That's the only reason I do that. Otherwise, I would have been a nominal question. This last one I got for you. Vince Carter. Alba say yes, just because I feel like somebody would have called and told me if it's God hit. Finally, retired. I did go through like a four straight year period where he was the captain of the squad that really can't be serious is the way it's Carter's still in the league. Oh yeah. He is a member of the Atlanta Hawks. Joe. Does this quarter or not like his wife or does Vince Carter just love basketball because it's not just that he's hanging in the league. He'd be playing some. Sorry teams. Vince Carter is just of the mind of keep getting them check by guess he's like, if I'm going to be playing basketball anyway, I might as well get paid. He plays for whatever team pays him. That's how much he's for a little bit, but he's like, look, if I was going to go who pay equinoxes then I might as well go hoop at Staples Center. If is body still allows. I mean, did you see that Carter documentary on flicks the Carter effect that LeBron his people have heard about it, but I didn't see it. Interesting. All right. We'll leave it at there for suing the league. So good at it. Tom in other people could play along at home. Yes, I got a huge roster of good ones here, so we'll we'll return to this segment. Joining us here on the right time. We do this couple of times a week. My main Gabe essay, handles everything behind the scenes. Thank you, sir. Thanks. That opposed to help us with. If you haven't heard thanks to Aaron Williams of Uproxx check out his story on drags interview with LeBron on the shop on Uproxx dot com. Thanks to Jeffrey. Fowler the Washington Post, check out his story about the new Facebook portal at Washington Post dot com. And thanks to Jordan, Weisman of slate, and he gave us the story about Amazon trying to use robots, but they'd be discriminating. Yeah. All right. Wiseman also hosts a podcast called working started good friends at stamps dot com. Our sponsor for this episode. Remember subscribe to the podcast ESPN app, apple podcasts, wherever you go ahead and do that rate us review, give us five stars. You only give us four. I'm inclined to think you're a hater you guys in a couple of days. Unicom's will join us football like other stuff. Thanks for checking out the right time with Monty Jones podcast. You can listen or subscribe on the ESPN app apple podcasts or every listen to podcast the right time with the Mani Jones.

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2010 Redraftables: PG-13, Wall, Hayward, and the Snakebit 2010 Draft With Ryen Russillo

Book of Basketball 2.0

56:51 min | 7 months ago

2010 Redraftables: PG-13, Wall, Hayward, and the Snakebit 2010 Draft With Ryen Russillo

"You're listening to the Book Basketball Two Point Oh podcast. This is the two thousand and ten. Redraft Dubose, which we did as part of a big summer of two thousand ten podcasts that Ryen Russillo and I did. My Name Is Bill Simmons. This is the basketball. Is. The point. Near. Josh his. Of Basketball. Of. Of Fast. Up Basketball? So we do the two thousand ten redraft ables. You. Know we talk about the bad drafts. The two thousand. You know we did. The two thousand six hundred is really bad. Two thousand ten doesn't get enough credit for being a horrific draft. It did end up Four really talented guys, John, wall demarcus cousins, Gordon Hayward Paul George. And yet what are those four guys have in common? Dow devastating injuries off for them. Paul George breaks his leg in the team USA game. He basically Mrs a year and a half. Hayward breaks his ankle. First Celtics game. Basically done for two years. cousins finally finds a good basketball situation new. Orleans playing with Davis blows out his ACL and then John Wall rate when it seemed like he had a chance to put together a really fun. Career as meaningful guard, his knees start going on him and he and now he's probably the worst contract in the league. That's my takeaway. When I look at this draft. It's Kinda weird like an injury. What if draft? What do you think? It's bad. It's way worse like I hadn't looked at it in a while, and you're going through it and you go. This is GonNa get ugly here at the end. You know you're just going to be taken. Guys I, mean some of the metrics. on this like be Lisa top fifteen in in some of the advance stats for the grass I mean it's ridiculous like what you're looking at here. At the end. Graves Vasquez ends up having one of the better careers, and he was seven years in a league, and I wasn't even sure if he was going to go in the first round, anyone at the end of the first round, so there's that par and then. You know it's. It's a real big miss with favors who I thought had star potential. Evan. Turner is really interesting because I liked him so much until everybody else liked him. He was somebody who go hey evan. Turner needs to be higher and you're like wait to. Me Right. Maybe that's so you go from liking someone because no one's on him to then not liking as much because everyone feels like they're on them, but. Wall is. I'm not trying to give away the lead here, but. He's bad as the contract is as bad as the injury is. I don't know that he can fall below two in a redraft for this class I. Don't I. Don't think he can and I'd like to still point out that Waller's right. Why had that one year where he was a top ten player in this league now he may not have been that just 'cause I think. Sometimes we were doing those things. Top Five top ten is a bit more of a statue to it. It's more than just that season, but in that one season he was an awesome basketball player, so the injury derails who he is now, but I'm not gonna like right off the fact that he's actually had really good versions himself to. It's one of those draft. We just look at it and you go i. wish everybody had taken a different guy after the John. Wall Peck, right, Evan Turner goes second, but he goes to Philly. And at that point data drew holiday. Lou Williams, is there. Doug Collins? Is there? It's just the wrong team. It's know I think he's one of those rare guys. You'll Bush was she'd gone to a bad team, so you look at like? Jerseys at three, they'd take favors even if. Philly takes favors at to Jersey Takes Evan. Turner at three. I'm probably I think both of their careers are better, you know and then maybe Evan Turner gets thrown the Darren Williams trade etc, etc.. cousins goes to Sacramento. We'll you don't WANNA go get SUPPO- tyreek Evans, on probably the worst team in the last fifteen years. Even of Minnesota had taken him at four. They take was Johnston instead. At least then you get the cousins Kevin Love Ricky Rubio like. I don't know it's. It's Kinda Fun And then you go down Oh hayward and George go nine and ten. Utah Takes Hayward. At nine George Stakes Indiana ten. You, the clippers could have just taken either of those guys at eight, and they already had Blake Griffin. There had the Andrei. There a year away from Chris Paul Trade Have Air Gordon. And it was actually needed. A swing guy is just they took the wrong. One took Alpha Rica Amino. Over Hayward George and Hayward was at the very least if you watch him college like all right. That guy's at least fifteen game in college and. And could shoot a little bit so I, I just look at this like man. This is a fun way just moved the names around and everybody's happy. It's it's crazy like Paul George going this late. Wasn't that crazy because he you know. He floated and all all of his tape. If you watched, it wasn't all great. You know I. Do give a ton of Credit John Hollinger I think college. It was like the first guy ever that was like this guy's going to be an all star and I was like wait really like an. He had had been in the League at that point, so that wasn't before the draft, but even Hayward Hayward had this. This weird thing where his two years like his last year Butler shoot the ball. That will be shot up pretty well the year before that, and that's one of those things will get a little too caught up in the fact that like hey, how come this guy supposed to be outside shooting? Three point shooting numbers were pretty bad, but it was just kind of a flukey like he can shoot. He had a bad number or bad year number. Wise, so don't worry about it, but him going that late. In you know I grown dump on now because everything's apple last couple of years, but that seems kind of impossible for a guy that just looked like he had all of these skills and the size to go along with and wanted a high level in college for a team like. I took a big loss of mistrust in the draft IRA. I I was outraged that Indiana took Paul George W Save Your Henry. Oh. It's one of my eight or nine worst ones because I've just like. I'm like wow, door number eight Xavier Henry. Who was like the best high school recruit a year ago and was pretty good at college versus. Paul George Guy. WHO's full rounded? Fresno does state. And it's really. Taken Henry so could have missed that one more I did love. I love the cousins as the upside pick though. I wrote in a draft our to spend so much time on cousins, but he's the most important to us and rookie if he makes it a big if he makes it, that's the home round. Pick even count the impact under thirty bigs like cousins on one hand. I mean Andrew Bogut on via team last season. and He fell to five, and it was all because people were worried about his personality. It was the rare. It was like Sean William staying or some of those other guys. That guys had some real issues. It was completely one hundred percent. Teams worried about his personality. And now you look back anything like. He definitely should have been one of the top three picks at the same time you. The concerns were valid because he had a lot issues in Sacramento. and. I don't know. How do you feel about that per? Cousins I would have a no cousins rule of our GM. And You're blind blind out I. Just I wouldn't drafted the redraft. I watched enough of the Sacramento Games. That you know the weird thing is charisma. Put on hold here for two years, so you don't really know what to make of them, or he's going to be the rest of the way and you hope. Whatever version of this is when he comes back, he turned around, but I've just. To me, there's two. There's two versions of basketball people. Those that look cousin stats and say's awesome was a bad situation. He's really really great. And then there's people that know what they're talking about. They see his stats, but they watch the things he does in a game. And this is all the Sacramento stuff, and a little bit with New Orleans to where. Throughout the game he. Is He makes losing blades he just he can put up twenty and ten. His passing is incredible. He can stretch the floor for big guy, but there's all of these little things that he doesn't there where he he lets himself get taken out of the game emotionally quicker than any basketball player I've ever seen so I. I. don't care what his numbers are. I've done this ramp before so it's not. Not New for some of you but I, just I would have a hard time having a guy like that. Be The focal point of my team. Maybe now as a role guy as he's older and coming off these injuries and it's it's not as big of a deal. But when when he was younger, and he is putting up all these numbers, but there's no accountability and he's run through million coaches I you know I it just. It was not something I was a fan of. I'm going to save my thoughts on him. For when he comes up in the, you can take him thirteenth or fourteenth. Catch. Dash for later. We also. This is a draft. Had Larry Sanders German and Hassan whiteside? On, whiteside said he was the best player in the draft. Law He was wrong. This is a draft I wrote in the draft IRA, our first four GM the clock Ernie Grunfeld Ed's Defense Gay Rod Thorn David Kahn, or is there better known Mount Don Smart. It's really think incredible quartet to start an MBA dropped off for those guys I'm not sure. They worked again after this. This also had kind taking west Johnson. Who was twenty three? Twenty three years old on the at the draft. Over cousins. it averaged sixteen points a game as a twenty two year old junior. And the irony of it is whether that was the red picker, not going smaller versus taking cousins. He ends up taking West Johnson over two guys coming after who are both going to go in the top four of our? A redress that happened John Thomson. Did this draft. He defended cousins is a top five pick by saying quote. You can calmed down a fool before you could resurrect a corpse. Again Yeah. You can calm down a fool before you can resurrect a corpse. This was his defense of demarcus cousins going in the top five. He was defending him. So that was I think the only. Word Fool has ever been used to defend somebody as a top by pack. And then the ESPN. Graphic sky gave cousins. Quote must improve maturity. I would say we still might be there. That John Wall the number one pick. I wrote at the time. On, the coming into the League can't Miss Point Guard scale. I have wall ranked behind ninety four. Jason Kidd Oa Derrick rose. But head of oh five Darren Williams, who's really good. I got to say that was a pretty accurate analysis, right He. I think he was never going to be. Jason, Kidd or anybody on that level, but he had a chance to be a very good point guard, which is when he became before he got her. Does that include Chris Paul? You saying he's GonNa, you just didn't name him in your day. Name Chris I would be Chris. Paul. Jason Kidd like on that high level coming with their lives. I bet my life. Those guys are GonNa. Be Good. I would say that's the highest level you know. We were talking about West's broken, his athleticism and realizing that that's kind of where this game's going with the Rose thing I think the wall line is like that's the exact same thing with him or yeah, we we. We shoot it a little bit better a lot better actually, but his athleticism billions of who opened. They started developing kind of drive. Hard drive elbow jumper. And I I feel like I. Don't I don't feel like this huge John Wall Fan, but I feel like it's worth pointing out like. Did? People people talk about this guy like sucks now, and it's just not fair. Is that does that my? Am I right in that because I feel like he gets trashed regularly. In I guess is probably because of the contract, but. It's definitely contract. Yeah, two things John Wa. In Person! Incredible. Just his speed. One of the fastest guys have ever seen. We were talking about in a previous redraft. Yes, lettuce, system of Westbrook and rose and how? Stupendous was to watch while speed of just. Rebound outlet. He's just off. Is Among the fastest players I've ever seen in person I. Don't know who's number one, but he's has to be in the conversation of for five fastest guys I've seen. So fast said it almost seemed like it was too fast. Like like unit moments where he like literally couldn't control a speed. He was going faster than you should go into court. And I think the the two thousand seventeen wizards that game. That that great series against the Celtics game seven all that stuff any. He felt a little bit short Bradley. Beal ended up being the guy that the. If you're really watching that series closely was clear, Bill is guy. And Wall was. Really good, but the the fact that he couldn't shoot threes. In a playoff series in around two. You could defend him. As long as you cut him off before he got the head of steam, and you actually put them in a half court offense. I don't feel like he ever saw that piece. Fully as a basketball. And that's a bad loss. It's not the magnitude of that playoff series isn't something that most people just walking around bug member that wizard series, but that's a bad series loss. There were better team. They should have beat that celtics is that eighteen or seventeen? I think it's GonNa. Be Seventeen. Yeah, says they're Thomas Yep. Yep that's that's about in that. That Wizards team started bug me a little bit because they were always doing. but these tough guy press conferences, and they dress funeral and do all the stuff you'd be like are cool like you've. Ever GonNa get to third round or what? So, there I you know in those games are really fun. And while was really fun to watch was a great series as I do think he had a hole in his game. Though I think that the way the Celtics. Defendant him in the especially in that game seven and it got to the point where you. You're Kinda rooting for him to take the photo. There's giving it to them. They're playing way off ramp. They're like dude. Shoot away, giving it to you and he didn't WanNA shoot. It even if you look at his. CAREER STATS LIKE You know he's. He's like thirty two percent career three point shooter so I think when he comes back and figures out whatever this next incarnation of his career is going to be I, think he's GonNa have those better quickly. Everyone blew it on Paul George that was another subject. In there and as you said it was totally defensible, I think this is the problem with the redraft. ABLES is if he had gone eight. That think that would seem weird. You know like the clippers taken bill like well. Taken Paul George Eighth who, but in retrospect they should have Okay. Casey made a big. So? Okay, see is in here. And they almost be Dallas in the playoffs, and this is a draft where they have some assets. Peterson's expiring contract twenty one in twenty, six, and they trade up to New Orleans. For Coal Aldridge. Everything is good on paper at that deal. You always WANNA. Trade up. You'd package choose worst picks for a better pay. Great accept the call hundreds part. And then. They took air bud, so later traded the rights to him to the clippers. So this is the same prestige I fuck updrafts. Is I. Believe Your blood show. That surprised me that he was. He was around that long. Out? Is Two half. And that was I. Think all she was still with the clippers then. Yet when they did that and they were, they were pumped, they were. They were so pumped when they when they got him there. Because you know Kevin. Seraphin who I had some hope for Luke Babbitt my guy i. even did a full. You know did a full feature for ESPN DOT. Com Luke Babbitt. Was it about how bad he was defensively. No is going to be if you played it. I had a scout. WHO's really big on him? He said if he played at UNC top five pick. Who? Then didn't quite work out EPI. Yudo. Who is like thirty seven? Taylor and that was one of those. Those the analytic guys are like look. History tells us your this old. You can't shoe and you're like a little under size for your position it doesn't really work out and and didn't work out for him almost immediately. I think like that was one of the last years where guys like that. When the top ten after thirty years of missing on guys like that at the League finally realizing maybe now. Six? His nose. It's true because dad. That's where the numbers guys were losing their minds of people who like it's you know for all the things that we can debate right the thing that doesn't ever seem to be debatable. Is that when you're extra? Coming in, and there's already some problems that you don't just become this guy who's like awesome at twenty four. And you have no offensive game. I right develop. A Low post game at age twenty eight. To other trades Chicago traded the seventeenth pick to Washington with Kirk Hinrich. In return for cap space. because. They thought they had a chance to get Lebron Bosch, so that was a bummer. And then. There was a crazy Ryan Gomes. Luke Babbitt for Martell webster trade between Minnesota important. that. I feel like everybody lost that one. from a comedy standpoint, the highlight of the draft was Mark Jones interviewing Wesley Johnson. Asking him what his former Syracuse teammate Johnny and Mark says whether Johnny. Tell you about Minnesota. It was Johnston's answer was I mean he loved it? Minnesota seventeen games the year before it read the triangle and by all castes, it was the unhappiest. Ever was Minnesota Wesley jets. LOVED IT I? Don't think he loved Wesley I don't think that was his reaction. What what do you want, one or two do? Not Take One all right. Let's I'm. GonNa Start us off. The two thousand ten MBA redraft ables. Ryen Russillo is on the clock with our first pick. Let's Paul George. There's no debate. Right. And follow up Paul George. He wanted me to add a little more depth to this. Little Sugar. No, that's that's fair. That's totally fair. first-year League eight points a game. You know they didn't play him a lot. He missed some games as well We had talked about this team, too, because I think that was still a grainger year right when we when graves read. It. It was kind of this weird deal where you weren't quite sure what you had and so for him. A kiss improvement. It's a little coli esque in that. You don't really have guys that do this like okay. Maybe he's going to be a nice little role player. Okay why he's going to get twenty game. Okay, he might be and at the peak of Paul George. He was in the argument as like the second best player in the League, and that may have been off I'm it's easy to sound like all this stuff. Is You know it's ridiculous? He was never that good. He's taken some things, too, because you feel like in if it's a final possession. Possession of big playoff spot. Do you expect that shot to go down for Paul George Right now like I feel like there's been more instances of like him, maybe not entirely getting it, and then the fact that you know he doesn't go to La he goes to Oklahoma City tells. Everybody Loves Oklahoma City. And then he forces out of there. You're later and he ends up with the clippers, and who knows he's still may win a title throughout all of this, but that arc does not happen a lot. and. It was the case for the Celtics Trading Jalen Brown because. If you JALEN had a chance to be as good as Paul George. He matched up statistically every checkpoint. Paul George hit those first couple of years. I'm going back to when he was a rookie. Though and here's eight once again. I remember going to cook per game. His rookie year. Was One at one of his first two years. It was a whatever the first time I saw him in person, and he's one of those guys where. You know on, TV people one way, but in person you go. Oh Man. I didn't know yeah. I mean he's like he seems like he's a legit six nine. He's got long arms. He's he is up rate and just seems like a like a specimen like if you just landed from another country and you're just picking out. Who are the best players in this game? You would picked him. He's like twenty at that point, but you could see it. And then I remember the two thousand twelve playoffs, and they really threw him in the fire against Miami. Team Durham Miami's first idol year. athletically hang with weight and Lebron and he had no idea what he was doing yet and. So at some point in those first two years of became queen, everybody had made a massive mistake, but you don't you look at his. His career he, he made a first team on. In two thousand nineteen. During a season that had Lebron Choline Toronto and Kevin Durant Golden State. Who is really good that year? so really impressive then he also made for thirteen so. Last five years twenty, four, seven, and four, and I think the big thing we have to mention is just a what if with the broken Mike because he basically. He loses a whole year. It is not quite the same year that he comes back and just what his stats with the bike and things like that so. I mean he could argue bill. He came in his first year like he doesn't rebound again. It's only twenty one minutes a game. He's never even shooting. He's just under thirty percent from three the next year. It comes back. They're still not even playing thirty minutes a game in his second year in the short season, and he's at three eighty five from three, and then he starts rebounding crazy. and. You know then he look he. I. Don't think he's. Your one, I don't think he could ever be your one physically. He has the game of the one. He has the skills of the one. All of those things I think there's something that's a little short there. As far as you being the guy that's GonNa. Really be an Alpha and a big moment i. don't know that he has that and he shown more times than I. Don't. Think is a good enough playmaker. I think he's an incredible athlete in an incredible around I think if you're going to say what's so sky missing. There's that one last time I'm talking like. Super Duper Star that one. Would you run the offense through in a game seven I I don't think so no good. I don't know if you'd wet. Known it's not this is just as you said. I'm glad you said it that way because you know when you start talking about who are the four or five best in the world like? The the things we're going to start grading you a little harder on. We're GONNA seeing like pretty hard, but he has a little. Bosh him wherein a big playoff moment I could. I could forget you know like Oh that's. Paul George. Like has gone six seven possessions here. Nothing's really happened. On the other hand, he's at the point of his career where he could have completely changed your mind on that in these playoffs install. Might it when we go to the Orlando like? Who Does, he might have his moment. I still think he's young enough. To change that awesome defensive player I don't feel like he's quite at the Y.. Scottie, Pippen Gudang level, but I think he's. A Notch below. The. I think he's right underneath. Those guys guys. I've seen perimeter pencil, so he's a worthy number on peck. I do like that. You were like any follow up. Just like Paul George Out. David stearns sitting there waiting for the handshake. I'm on the clock number two. Obviously I'm taking no I'm kidding You know I I think John Wall has to be the second pick. I was all prepared to get crazy intake Gordon Hayward. But. I think the fact that John Wall. Hit a point where he was a meaningful point guard and a team that almost made the conference finals and You know don't think it's his fault that that Washington. He walks into that Washington situation. It's post arenas. Crittenden Andre Blatch fool just a complete mass. Vilma McGee Joran Crawford all those and then. You know as House pointed out when we When we were talking about Washington and a couple of podcast ago, like it was a team that always thought they were one move away from winning the title, and was giving away newborn picks for guys that didn't really matter, and it was always a speed rush microwaves kind of game plan for how to put together a team. They really lucked out with the Bradley Beal Back in two thousand twelve, and you just think like all right. Freeze the roster right there, two thousand twelve. We have John Wall? We have Bradley beal. This is easy. Just. Don't fuck this up like that. Don't don't try to make this. And that's what they did for the next five six years and I can't blame him for that I can't blame him for his knee injury whether that would happen or not. WHO KNOWS BUT You know he's career nineteen and nine four rebounds a game. The percentages are an awesome, but they want a couple of playoff series with them. And I do think for I test wise going to see him in person I thought he was really good. I would just rather have him than hayward is what it came down for for me. Yeah I've I've done all my wall stuff? and I I actually still hold out hope that he's going to be able to have some second part of his career here where he still young enough after this kind of injury and he's not too big. That, he'll be able to figure out something here. And what are we talking? He's twenty nine. He'll be thirty in September. So tough the injury though I mean definitely was. Phillies no. I'm sorry. I kill US yeah. But he also had a knee injury to. Your fracture scourging both. I don't know. I knew there was another sticking injury. I don't microfracture update. Have my my catalogs up today on that in the play offs, I think that says it all twenty two and ten in the playoffs. He's played. You know six classes at this point. Percentages Forty, two, twenty, seven, eighty two. To. Twenty seven percent three point shooter in the playoffs and you could feel it in big games. and. I. Just hate when what am I to? Best players has a weakness that. The. Other team can craft the whole defense around, and that was the case for John Wa. If you could slow the wizards down when they're going really well. And make him a half core point guard. He couldn't totally figured out. Sometimes he did make it thirteen yet. So I I think he's certainly wasn't a bust I. Think he's had some good moments and I'm like you. I'm not ready to give up on a ticket third. I'm going to go with Hayward then. He was so good towards the end there in Utah. His career has been completely derailed here and he did look like he was finally figuring out certain times this year, and then I thought actually got worse again at times. All over the place, but you know we're doing. These redraft ables with these classes again it's. Crazy that it's ten years ago, but Not I I don't I'm not ready to give up on. Gordon Hayward, being a product BASCO planner league, either and once he showed that playmaking were. They're running the offense to him. In Utah where he was making decisions, he's put up good assist numbers, and he could shoot it and the thing that sucks to as he played. All the time like he just misses handful of games, but we have one where he was sixteen, sixteen, five and five in a shooting. Well, that year was weird. He said like forty percent years three, and they'll have like a couple of badgers. It's actually a little bit like we're talking about with him in college, but well his last three Utah. Years Us, twenty five in four. Forty five, thirty, seven eighty three percentages so. That's good I. Mean you take that? He thought he was a really smart defender. The key was like an amazing defender, but we watch them on the Celtics, he's one of those guys who knows where to go with. The new seems like he's fun to play with unselfish. And the ankle thing you know we talked about it earlier. The what if so, this draft with the Paul George Him getting her John Morgan her cousins when he got her. Then at Hayward injury is just the timing of it's unbelievable, it's. Because there's a whole bunch of repercussions from it, including like does that change? The arc of what happens with Korea Boston. Is that Celtics team awesome that season. And kyrie happy or Kyri destined to do whatever he was going to do anyway, but I think. He's May, but the lose hayward. After what was it an hour? Not, even know unbelievable. When when does that ever happen before they visited our? Max Contract. Yeah like I. I think there's just always these anti h people that are out there, but you just go. Everybody would assigned Gordon Hayward Okay would sign Gordon, Hayward He's twenty two a game. He could shoot bitch aboard sketch assists, and he was twenty six years old i. don't WanNa. Hear about it, and so I would rather have his stability than say you know some of the other guys that were going to pick from here. Tomorrow causes more talented player, but I'll take hayward and not being somebody who can be sabotaged my entire team. demarcus is in fallen further than four just for the integrity of this draft. I'm taking him fourth. You told me not to mention the numbers a mention. The numbers from two, thousand, fourteen, the two thousand seventeen four-year stretch. He average twenty five and twelve. He made to second team all MBA's. And I do think. Him and Davis in two, thousand eighteen That was really happening. That was a really fun team to watch. I loved watching them together, and I really felt that causes was starting to figure it out as as Nutty as he's been over the course of his career Davis together. We're figuring it out in. A railway withdrew holiday that that team was something. And so that makes me think. Right does violates a lot about rules for the draft ables, but at least I saw for four months there that this guy could be productive player and against. Some taken. And maybe Maybe if he's not the guy that he wasn't Sacramento earlier on, then, he can have a nice little second half. You worry with the Achilles somebody this big, and then he hurts himself again after the Phillies, because that's what happens, but the guy that got twenty five and ten, or whatever in Sacramento, but then if he didn't get a call, spent the next five possessions distracted. Distracted within the game, not paying attention that was going on that he'd elbow somebody not running back. He wouldn't get back on defense or wouldn't. If you didn't get the ball off a screen, he would POW for five possessions than as soon as you get the ball back. Just take a bad shot to take the shot like that doesn't show up much of the box score, but that's what. I'm not telling you that Sacramento. Team is loaded in the necessarily up, you know. We get that that was not a good basketball team but I. Really I would argue with anyone anyone that wants to listen because I think there are people that. Of have never really That had been pro demarcus cousins that just haven't haven't really been honest with themselves about some of the stuff that he does screws up your team. Well, it's a good one. Because as the years pass in your basketball reference page becomes your legacy. For people who didn't who weren't there when you play, because we're seeing that, happen with guys from my generation, your generation to. Where you could make a case Karl Malone was one of the ten best parts of all time. Look at his basketball reference page, and as everybody gets older. Who can't be like? Hold on a second I was there. This is how it actually happened and with cousins. There's somebody thirty years strapped. Hey, now, who is one of the best three centers of the two thousand ten demarcus cousins, and they'll lay out a physical case for it. and. It won't be a good one. Day that one. I mean when you're center in your initiating forty six percent for your allegedly. This awesome post player like go look at the post up stance of everyone from. The eighties and nineties. You know even something that you in for him to shoot. Forty six percent in a year would have been a complete disaster. France so. you know I think I wanted to play this game with you? Because I do think he went to one of the worst possible teams for our. Best Team demarcus could have gone to not counting Washington, because they were taking log away, so let's say philly takes him at number two. You're putting him withdrew holiday Lou Williams. L. Brand. Will Spencer Hawes plus. Dot Collins in the. demarcus. They've fight to the death. To the Jeff Sunday dog, somebody dies. Okay. That's the most fun situation. Number three was the nets. New Jersey before they got to Brooklyn. They had nobody I think that would have been just as bad as Sacramento Minnesota Kevin Together. There's so many ways that could have gone wrong. There's a couple of ways it could right. golden state he could end up with curry and in Klay your later potentially. And then after that against silly like Detroit, the clippers stuff like it. They're thinking of Demarcus phillies delightful to May I. Wish that it happened. A really would've liked that. I think the fans either would have embraced them or turned on him in a way that was almost unprecedented. See I think they would've liked him. I think they were were liked them because. I don't know it's a smart smart basketball town. Mean Sacramento defended him? To like you know in. In him losing his coach I mean I've read that piece so many times like wow, you know. He was never told about coach more not being there like okay, so that's so that he could use his next for seven years. Right you just. Hey I was I was given a heads up. So I'm I'm more pro Boogie than you are I think he got away with a lot of stuff, too. I just think. You put a guy like that. Who could go either way and you put them on the worst organisation the League. on bad teams with guys like tyreek Evans and whoever else and it's like it's just you're not gonNA wear. There's no way maybe Garnett you're right. Maybe maybe that would have been amazing to have somebody like that I would have paid Gar net five million a year, for our Sacramento at the end of his career dispute. Can you come in here and and yellow cousins? All right now we're at number five and a little bit of a drop off from this point on, and then there's another drop off. That's honestly like the the the floor caves, and you just go crashing into the basement, but this is the first draw five at five. It really was blood sewer favors and I. Think I'm GonNa go bledsoe, and that's. The high end scoring. That you can look at favors and go. Hey, let's not that bad like looking at all. It's not that bad I just wanted to be better, so maybe that's getting in the way of all of this, but. Really between the two. Late possession type of thing favors probably wouldn't even be in the play and Bledsoe as a chance of getting you the bucket, even though you know look I'm not putting butts on the top ten point guards in the League but It's just a it was I kind of went back and forth on it, but I felt like you know what blunts are just more scoring. In the draft. In the moment, the Celtics had the nineteenth pick. And heading into the eighteenth pick, BLEDSOE and Avery Bradley were on the board and I remember being excited because all these teams fucked up in front of that spot right like. We went it like Seraphin was the seventeenth pack to. CHICAGO BLEDSOE. You just do the worst case. Scenario is going to be a really good athlete. Who could be your third guard? And Bradley was Bradley. The year earlier was the number one high school recruit. And Ghana Texas and he hadn't had a great year. And people just it was the classic people just fell off and I think that's been one ages secret scouting tricks. He likes the pedigree of those McDonald All American guy sometimes and sometimes too much but I got to watch BLEDSOE those first couple years of the clippers. And it was clear that he was something. You know athletically. A little bit to heat Cecchi in like co, overconfident in his own offensive abilities to run a team and I think that's manifested itself in some bad ways with walkie last season. But but the talent was there was undeniable like he was really athletically gifted, and seemed like you gave a shit played hard and was in a frustrating spot. Backing up Chris Paul. Like. WHO's a worse person? A backup Chris? Paul earlier play twenty game. have. You play. You played twelve minutes a game. If you're playing with them, he's yelling at you. Like that not ideal and I think it. It hit a point where he had to find his own team. And then finally they traded him to Phoenix and his career to golf I was not surprised. I think that's the right pick. Okay. Number six. I had I had bledsoe five took him I. had favors at sex. Just 'cause I know it is and. By all accounts great team May. I think if you do career over again. He's an eleven seven for his career. I think if you do over again and probably turns out differently. He just you know he ends up gets taken by the nets. That's terrible gets. Traded to UTAH. he's in the Darren. Williams trade. He's playing without Jefferson. They're kind of remaking. That team is and. It was like they never totally figured him out, but he was one of those guys that. I always kept wit. Didn't you always keep waiting for it to happen with him? Oh my God dude! Are you kidding? I have a a a a biography written about me. It'll be like he always hoped for more from Derek favors. I I loved him so much. Georgia tech because it just I thought he was going to be this. Physically imposing like high twitch big guy, you know I'm not saying it's GonNa be Lebron, but I thought the way he was end to end and. Didn't you think like Antonio mcdyess. Like that NYC like peak athlete, but yeah more along those. Really take over a game and. I judge him I, judge him based on thinking that he was always supposed to be a little bit more than finally with him I had to be like I, dude, it's not happening. You Know Baseline Jumpers going to get you some boards, and that's about it. So in fifteen and sixteen. Those two years averaged sixteen and eight. Fifty two percent. Shooting you know. The League moved against them a little bit. Yeah at the. He's the guy that made a lot more sense twenty years ago, that made. He looks like an eighties power forward. Does that he yeah. and then in seventeen and eighteen, they make the second round both years. He's placed twenty point five minutes game the first year twenty six. The second year, but One of those guys, I think we all liked him and he had a great name. Derrick favors just sounds like you should be awesome. There's a high school in pedigree with him. And I don't I I haven't given up on him yet if he averages. It's over. It's over. Twenty five twelve next year I. Fucking told you there favors now I I, don't I'm with you. I think he is what he is now. He is like the. The smart forward off the bench who can guard to positions and play twenty minutes a game for you? I wanted more. You're on the clock at seven. There's analytics is year that will tell you some of my next picture coming up. That are going to be wrong, but I don't care I. don't care what the. Some of these, because of just going with the guy as far as having in my rotation now at kick seven, I'm going to take avery Bradley. I also had him at number seven. Are you serious gases funny? Yeah, I think incredible defensive player for you know. Five six years I thought he was a destructive. Player that you know. He. I was thought he was a guy that he's a shooting guard on on offense, but on defense you on guard, the other teams point guard, so if you could find you know a point forward or a two guard, who's really a playmaker on the offensive end in an have Bradley kind of plant. That guy. He could be really valuable. What he wasn't was appointed barely dribble. That's what people don't seem to remember, or they just have watched enough of them. Do Remember that next series where he was trying to bring the ball up with the Celtics are trying to have him play point, guard, yeah, and it. It was it was like Whoa. This guy? Kinda can't dribble. There's different kinds of dribbling. You can dribble on your way to getting a bucket. Okay fine, but like can you actually in the face? A pressure like navigates where everybody and some guys get exposed a little bit with that, and it's also a little scary that the beginning is like okay, this guy. This is some amazing draft. Pick by age in that this this is somebody who shouldn't have fallen this far because it took a little while, but he has moments and and yeah the the fact that you can probably play him in different positions defensively. And you know whatever I. He wasn't Great Boston. I think you'd be the first to admit that I think. People in Boston held out. Hope for him quite a bit. He's had some moments with the Lakers here this year. can I shout out his two thousand seventeen season. Really fast, please. Sixteen and six six rebounds. Thirty nine percent from three five three a game. Really good defense and played really nicely with as they thomas where he basically had to guard. The best, guard on the other team, every game and Isaiah. They try to hide him on whoever but I like that backwards together I. Don't think it was sustainable. It was the championship backward, but everybody was good he he played in some playoff games over the years and. I liked having him out there. I was never one of those guys where you're like. Man Every Bradley's out there like I actually kind of believed them and I think you know. He decided not to play in the bubble. I think he really could've helped the the Lakers. That's the law in certain situations right like every series, but there there were moments in for over four rounds where you were needed him. Two Thousand Seventeen Eighteen playoff games, and he was seventeen a game plan thirty six minutes a game for a team that. Made the conference finals, so you could argue who should have gone six. All right I'm on the clock at eight. The wheels have come off again. The wheels of come off to the point that I'm taking Greg Monroe. WHOA and you hate Greg Monroe Yeah I don't even really like them. Great in the eighties would have been great. Yeah, and I. Always I always thought he was good. Passer, he, eh? Game and and and I liked when they would put them at the top of the key. Run people have picks us. He's religiously with him. For. Two Thousand Twelve to sixteen averaged sixteen and ten. So I would rather have that than anybody were about to pick I. DO think there was a time and a place for him, I think. As the League got smaller and smaller, and he did not have the ability to just punish people anymore and things like that he became unplayable, but at least for those five years he was something so that's better for me than anyone else in this draft to he taken at nine. I WANNA. Take a Davis. Oh well, we really fell off. What's your case for Davis? She's that curiosity I. Don't know that I have one. It's not scoring. Rebounding, numbers of always been pretty good, it feels like everywhere he goes. Everyone's excited that they have them, but then they kind of forget that no one ever wants to keep him. He's never on a team from well. He had a couple of years there in Portland Oh here's a classic Portland Guy were the fans were out making it seem like he was better than he was. They've done that with about twenty players of the last twenty five years. Yeah, I wanted role player I didn't want I want role player that I know can fit in I mean. I'm the the stage of my scouting here where I'm trying to find out if somebody like an only child or where they buy their genes, but you know I'm just making sure that we have everybody on the same page strong pick. I am going completely off the grid with the Tenth Pick. It taking guy who was not drafted. popsy! Drafted he was drafted a guy who caused a riot in two thousand twelve for about four weeks a guy by the name of Jeremy Lin. Good pick good, thank you, thanks! Yeah, I like this a lot. That's good. Thank you I i. He was good enough to get signed to a twenty five billion dollar deal by Houston. They in the playoff series. Everybody thinks Jerry Melena. It began end wood Lin sanity, and then he gets hurt and it's over. He actually had a really good first year with Houston. Where they made the play, they lost that. Series to Portland to Dame Lillard member. Dame lowered the the three when Parsons didn't volume over in time, but Lynn's playing in crunch time in that game, it was on recently now watching they ran. You know hardened was doing his usual terrible shots down the stretch, but Lynn had a big play at one point, and he was out there so i. don't know I think. He got hurt a couple of times. He had some bad luck, but as a scoring point guard off the bench. I can't resist them, plus he beans a lot to a few about friends so there you go. Who Do you have a number eleven? where I should tell the audience. We're officially in Hassan whiteside ranch. I'm not saying he's going, but I'm not taking him. It's we're at the point where people in the draft room are kind of passing. His stats are in. They are because there's analytics to that like him. And some of his total numbers are good just. If people are benching you at the end of close games. That jazz me something. That's yeah, that's me, you know. I'm I'm difficult that way when when you're coach doesn't want you out there at the end of close games. Evan Turner. Has. He had some terrible analytics like he's. He's in the twenties for some of these. And I actually think you have to take Evan just on talent alone at this point I probably should've taken him ahead of Ed Davis. If you've watched enough Evan Turner exactly who he is, but he's still to talented and still had moments production where he can't go undrafted a redraft here. He has to be drafted so therefore I take him. At number. What's it eleven? One of the Great College Basketball Stats seasons. He was awesome that Oh how state year so it's funny that the advanced metrics decided not to lake eventually I thought. Stevens unlocked them. IN BOSTON! My Hero Brad Stevens the way he used him as like a point forward. Whatever the fuck you was in had guards running off and. I thought he was effective so I. I think you're totally right. Could he be in a rotation on a really good team? ABSO fucking lutely. Yes, and that was the right pick for that spot. So. Gino. A team is on right now. He got traded and then traded again. IS THE END SACRAMENTO? Close he's on the Sacramento the East Atlanta. Oh God. So whiteside probably should be the next pick, but I know I can get him with the fourteenth 'cause. I know you're not gonNA take. So I'm, GonNa take a guy I've always enjoyed who seems to keep getting paid and who mailed in the last two years about as a grievously as anyone ACURA member Patrick. Patterson. He has. He's in my top fourteen. This is right around the range. We had them here over at HQ so pick thirty seven percent career three point shooter. Just for the record. Could he be? The model for him was always big shot rob, right? It's like Oh. Yeah, he could be the Bob Horia this team it except for the talent. Everything else was in place. And you know could a stretch for could make some threes and. Potentially Guard people on the other end. That's that's what you got with Patrick Patterson so there you go. He has to go dry. He like there's no way you can do these fourteen without him. Being drafted so I I agree with you, We're at the Pierre Tain. Okay, anyway, this may be the grisliest. It's gotten in any redraft ables for like the last six guys. If we stopped at twelve, I wasn't gonNA. Get Mad! If we gotTA stop that eight. Ever expect you go. If you want to stop you, watch any shows. Shout out to a high town on stars, but yeah you like Dan. Who Had P. Town? Yeah, town. It is funny though any mass based show. The ruling on who says what like WHO's allowed to try to speak with the accent? It's it's just it's one of my favorite things. Would any mash show coup thinks they're killing it? Good at it just said I'm not even going to bother right It's always fun, but Yeah Piton. We used to play Pea town in Highschool. Yeah, that was it that was a long road trip for the vineyard for the. Yes, that's like an hour hours-long Nat 'cause woods hole is all the way the bottom in. Two. It's going all the way up and around I'll watch time. I check it out. I heard it wasn't a feel. Good show, so I stay away, but I'll check it out. It isn't, but it's it's. A lot of the same beats for any kind of drama with crime, but they. I'm I'm really into how they've done it so far like they've. They've added newer elements to enough along with the story lines that make me all right cool I. Think we have some different on here. All Right thirteenth pick you're on the clock I'll go, Alfred. Amino just based on about house alone. Why I was GonNa, take him and just not take whiteside. So all through A. Lot of size he was another big time. High School Guy that's in wake ended up with all those dudes over that that very short amount of time. It was like a member. Wake forest landed everybody there in a very short amount of time. do much scoring, but then when he got to Portland, he still was young, too. He was twenty when he came into the League. And then you're worried that he's. He's on his fifth team by twenty five. You know. Go ahead aren't on the clippers. Yeah, and he was an immediate right off us. One of those guys you watch twice, you're like. Oh, he's a bust. He'll never be it and I. I was really surprised when he kind of remodeled as game in Portland and became. A Three D. guy you know not the best version with three indy guys, certainly not an awesome three point shooter, but at least. He made his as though yeah, perfect for kind of what they were doing because they had all different guys, so he actually made sense there and. Those three years are probably the only reason why because into anything Orlando this year. He didn't play. Play like eighteen game because the clippers also took that guy. I can't remember what you're. The Russian Guy Dunleavy loved. Two Thousand, eight, two thousand seven court chorus of correlation whatever that. He was another one where you watched them for five minutes. You're like! Oh, he sucked. He'll never be good like you knew immediately and I felt that way about Alfred Amelia I thought there was no chance, but it turned out. There was a chance all right. I have the last pick. Pick fourteen. Here's his on my board Hassan. WHITESIDE Jordan Crawford King of the heat check. bo-bottle. Get some Boba on out of this. Quincy Pond Dexter who I never really totally given up on. Grievous Vasquez. And the Larry Sanders show. Airs Take Sanders. You get like one and a half incredible years. where it's like wow, look this guy. He's leading the League a box. He's so he's so great. I love Larry Sanders. What? A mother eminent I made an taking Larry Centers for all we know. There's Sanders Magnum Rolle. Who would he was he? He was from Louisiana Tech. Aware Sanders two point eight blocks a game in two thousand thirteen. I'M GONNA take whiteside I. Don't feel good about it, but he's fourteen and twelve. Could I play him. Throw him in a game for fifteen minutes and have him bump into dudes. It's either him. Or Boban for Boban is just the fact that he couldn't get off the bench for the sixers last year when he made a big. Don't Kinda Boban. You might you might see him in that. It was the actual playoff game star and they're like. Hey, you're going to be over there. You're not playing. whiteside. At least can rebound and. Potentially block a shot and he'll block shots. He's not playing defense. When I know that sometimes it's a hard sentence for people process, but he only cares about blocking shots. He doesn't care about what he said was. That's what I said. He might block shop for me. His guy also might go by him seven times a row for labs, but he might block a couple of shots for me I. It's the least inspired I've ever been to take a pick in draftable, but I'm taking a Hassan whiteside fourteenth back. This is bad. Eight that's actually made me feel bad about. Doing the draftable is again. I've I'm soured. Honestly in the show known I was shocked. We were doing it. It fit in the summer to ten team and. What the fuck out where you talk about Oh! No, I'm not. I'm not criticizing any of us in the content game right now. John these things out, but it was I was like Oh. We're GONNA. Do Ten all right. That's cool. We'll do it. It's certainly not a lot of well. It's the candidate thing happened. Yeah the camping's big news. You guys are excited. Benjamin's going to get a New Jersey got a lot of tax. Yeah there. You go all right Russillo. You got at least one podcast this week coming. Yeah, WE'RE GONNA. Do some NFL stuff I don't say what we're doing yet, but Dan Herron was great, though yeah. Check out Dan Herron. who you know worst ears diamondbacks now pitching the big thirteen years. Good He's funny to talking about Jalen guys. So I like that guy. ICU have good weeks next time. Thanks for listening to the book a basketball podcast stay tuned for more shows on this feat.

League Paul George clippers celtics basketball Gordon Hayward Sacramento Evan Turner John Wall Ed Davis Minnesota Avery Bradley Kevin Durant Darren Williams SACRAMENTO Washington Paul George Guy Ryen Russillo Lou Williams
Hour 1: Mike Golic Jr. and Mina Kimes filling in

The Stephen A. Smith Show

38:06 min | 1 year ago

Hour 1: Mike Golic Jr. and Mina Kimes filling in

"This is this even a Smith. Show podcast man. Oh man they really messed up now in a week full of voices. That are definitely not Stephen a Smith's that you guys become accustomed to now you finally got to the icing on the cake here it is the CIA Smith Show here on. ESPN radio the ESPN APP. Sirius Xm channel eighty and on ESPN news were presented by Progressive Insurance guests us on the Shell Pennzoil performance. Line my voice. I'm Mike Golic junior and hear me Golick and Wingo Monday through Friday six am eastern. I'm joined coast to coast here with Miyakawa Times. ESPN senior writer hosted the ESPN daily podcast. Meaning what's going on. I assume a lot of people confuse me with Steven A.. As this after noon goes on. There's going to be you know a lot of similarities. I think an intonation delivery fire level of the takes so this is me not Stephen. A If you're listening to clear that up again we want to be accurate for everyone. The ferocity to the takes won't be unquestioned. Though right now has been chomping at the bit right now. Her Dog Lenny is not the the only one who is ready to get let loose on this show today. So we're very excited for you guys. You can tweet us at Angola junior fifty seven at me on the one eight hundred. Never mind we stopped doing that a while ago. That's still old habit there. You can tweet us on twitter at Munich angle. Junior fifty seven also eight eight eight seven nine three seven seven. Six is the telephone number if you I want to get in touch with us there but right. Now it's time for straight talk brought to you by straight talk wireless and Meena is not overly shocking. I think at this point but my now everyone is is well acquainted with the news that Jacksonville Jaguars Senior Vice President of football operations. I believe. That's his title. He's in charge of football seasons in Jacksonville. Tom Coughlin is no longer with the team. Coming off the news and the other day any real shock from you in that decision at this point the only thing I am truly stunned by how you just said Jaguars can you say that again for the national audience. Jaguars is that wrong. You hit us with a wires there. Joe See I do the wires thing every once in in a while I don't know I'm very inconsistent with pronunciation. Is that wrong. No I mean I've been told I speak with a Canadian accent half the time which is something we should really talk about later later but Yeah no I think the only thing may be surprising about this was the timing Given that Coughlin is sort of regarded as a bit of an elder under statesman and this is an organization an owner. That's not quick to pull the trigger on decision. I mean they stuck with Blake bortles lot longer than they should. which by the way you know falls under the list of mistakes Coughlin is pure football perspective Mike Right because the news over the last week or so especially coming coming off of that? NFL PA statement about an arbitrator deciding that they could not find a player. Who I believe was reported to be Dante Feller Junior for Missing Rehab at the team's facility There's that site where there's a lot of smoke about his relationship with players and disciplined and overreached. Frankly that's been going on for a couple of years now but just purely from a football perspective when you look at the totality of decisions decisions made in Jacksonville Starting with Bortles bortles them. Not Extending Jahic Their Star Pass rusher And leading a bunch of stars really walk you saw Allen Robinson kind of chirp back Ed Jalen Ramsey when he was Sort of tweeting and response to the news about Coughlin in the Players Association. All told it's really hard to justify. Keeping him yeah and I think one of the things in addition to all that. Because you're right with as far as the football moves it comes down to. How much credit are you willing to give him for the two thousand seventeen off season as in where so many things went well for them player? Acquisition that was before obviously there. AFC Championship game appearance. And then everything after that like the one part of the Blake Bortles era as we do the thing. And we'll do this coming up soon with Mitchell. Trubisky in the quarterbacks we keep comparing him to that draft they took Shaven Bryant and they could have had Lamar Jackson last year. Like that was the thing I remember. We're having a conversation about potential landing spots for Lamar Jackson. A Guy that you dominique Foxworth wrote about leading up to the NFL draft decisions like that around the quarterback position will haunt you. But I think just as much how it potentially undermines the coach we heard about some friction also between head coach and the guy in charge of things in the football operation side in Tom Coughlin and I think that might be where the big MISSTEP is one hundred percent and by the way a coach who we're GonNa be talking about probably the next two weeks as we begin to list. The the names of guys who are on the hot seat Both coaches and executives. I think marrone is definitely one of those one of those coaches who oop. Probably I would say it's at least fifty fifty right that he's on his way out It's funny you mentioned Tabin Brian in that pick and when I saw the coffee flu news and I mentioned Jalen Ramsey I was reminded of not this last summer but the previous summer I did a profile of Jalen Four ESPN the magazine coming off of that that AFC championship appearance team was still very hot. and look however you feel about Jalen and how. He handled his business. This on the way out of Jacksonville. It's undeniable that they would be a better football team if he was still on it and there was a lot of smoke at the time when news leaked that he was demanding a trade that a lot of his unhappiness with the organization was because of Tom Coughlin and his relationship you know he had a good relationship with a shotgun the owner and even the coach coach. I remember you saying Taivon. Brian remind me of this. I remember talking to Jalen about that draft. We were at a bowling alley in Nashville where he lives or is from and I asked him what he thought of the draft. I'm not even sure if this made it into the story Mike but we talked a little about Lamar Jackson he knew him from from his. FSU days and he wasn't Jalen wasn't willing to say we should've taken Lamar because they adjust extend boils. I think he didn't want to undermine him he did have some sensitivity sensitivity to that. But we I asked about them taking tavern and instead of Lamar and he told me an Jalen Ramsey said this to me. We weren't gonNA take Lamar Jackson with Tom. Coughlin and you can make that of what you will you know But he was very critical of him for a while. And I gotta say looking back. He was clearly right. It is a Stephen a Smith show here on. Espn Radio Michael. Junior media kinds filling in for Stephen A.. Right now and that was straight talk wireless everything for less only at Walmart. We asked you mentioned engine Doug Marrone and call while the general manager what the future might look like for them Golic and Wingo. This morning we talked to Adam Schefter and asked him about what their status might be. Decision it on Doug Marrone Dave Kabul the head coach and GM. I think he's still thinking through things and still thinking what he'd like to do with his organization organization. I was told last night they could go. They could stay. He doesn't know what he wants to do at this point in time but he knew he was going to be moving on from Tom Coughlin and he made that move last night and now we wait to see what happens with marrone in college and I think I know it sounds kind of crazy. These last couple of games could help influence that decision. The end of the team comes out and plays the way. It didn't okay. Wins Games. Maybe those guys get to stay on. And if they don't win games and they struggle they lose look as poorly as they did in many parts of this season. Maybe the guys who are gone so based off that if the proving ground for them and we've talked about the quarterback position being as important as it is. What do you think the future holds in that spot lot because we know that's gotten to be messy? Ever since they acquired nick foles. I think a what you would want is to bring. I think you'd probably want to bring in a new GM. Because it's such a difficult decision in Jacksonville as it pertains to the quarterback situation I criticised Coughlan for extending bortles. But I think at this point he deserves just as much criticism. Awesome for what they paid. Nick foles decision. I did not like at the time because it appeared to me not necessarily they went after foles I think everyone knew that was sort of an inevitability inevitability once they went out and got jonty Filipo but the fact that they paid him so much when it seemed last during the off season Mike. They weren't competing with anyone for for his services and now they really are going to have a very difficult time. Moving on from him. Next season obviously struggled upon coming back. Perhaps you can chart some of that to the the injury But you got outplayed by Gardner Minhsiu and I think you're going to want to bring in a GM with very strong vision for the quarterback position. And I don't really think if you bring in that. GM you're going to want to tether him to Doug Marrone so before we get to the future of another quarterback potentially that's GonNa come up this off season and it's going to be a very interesting off season I think in. Its own right with V quarterbacks that are all going to be available at once right now middle veteran guys you call them even mid level veteran guys. That are all of a sudden going to be playing musical chairs offseason for Tom Coughlin. Now since he's the one who was just showing the door do we think it's seventy three years old. There's any future for this guy on coaching staff or front office in the NFL. Now Yeah right I mean eight. Oh anyone anyone who's been in the NFL longtime it has a lot of relationships since one. A couple of rings always has a job in this league Look I I just don't. His record was not good. Good in Jacksonville. So if I'm exertion you have to consider that But I'm sure he'll if he wants a position somewhere in the NFL Dell whether it's as a consultant or executive or what have you. He'll find it. I think A lot of these coaches is we start looking across the league ahead head of these final two weeks and debating whether or not what. What can they do to save their jobs? What will it take You have to consider you're in the NFL. And I don't agree with this. But history matters a lot records matter a lot to teams. And that's going to factor into who gets to stick around Jaguars Jaguars Jaguars Liars and try and remedy that one going forward. You say aunt or aunt aunt 'cause I say both again like I feel you're like moving around as much I did as a kid I kind of just put it in whenever you know gels with the situation with the INTERCON. Well that's Regional thing I think it's yeah if you're from the South West it's pecan but I got a lot of criticism for saying coupon clip. I called the Patriots. Hits the coupon clippers of the NFL. Because they're always looking for like a slight edge right and instead of people marvelling at the Adroit the analogy that I had crafted I was widely criticized for saying coupon instead of coupon coupon. Yeah Twenty nine hundred a hell of a time to be alive right like that is peak internet leaking coupon really like Quincy Pond Dexter coupon what we'll get to still. I think because you mentioned in before your pseudo Canadian accent that comes in every now and then I believe I will take credit for bringing to light to the masses so you can you probably feel some type of way about about that or not. We'll get to that in a little bit. But you mentioned playing for their future and that's kind of what we got coming up with. Mitchell trubisky feels like this offseason so it was weird hearing ah earlier today we heard a sound sound bite for Mitchell trubisky addressing. Because they're playing the chiefs this weekend's we've got the comparison that's GonNa get invited back in from that draft class with we know him being picked second overall and then Patrick Mahomes to Shawn Watson not long after that. Do you think there's anything that Mitchell trubisky can do down the stretch of the season. That'll oh keep him in Chicago. Are we going to see a quarterback in the middle of his rookie contract realistically shown the door so there should and will and can and there is is a bad bunch of different tax. Could take when talking about Mitchell trubisky and his future in Chicago. I think there's nothing he should be able to do. to maintain his position as starting quarterback But I think he is going to absolutely be there next year will probably be the nominal starter going into connects season because the GM drafted him. Ryan pace will also still be there and one thing we've seen time and time again in this league is if the GM drafts you is still the building. I think of Tampa Bay Jason Licht And James who by the way played significantly better than trubisky over the course of his tenure. They're they're not gonNA move on on right a happens so rarely the. GM's are willing to admit they mistake especially given that they moved up to get you know trubisky and everything they gave up the opportunity costs there. They are It's funny to me that we're talking about trubisky coming off the heels of this jags conversation because we have seen this movie before it played out in Jacksonville and by the way bortles played better than she. Bisky go look up the numbers the Urals month. He was yes it was a full month. Yes he was awesome okay. Trubisky is just kind of playing. He's been competent. I think it's funny. He's quote was about you. Know being compared appeared to Watson and Mahomes. They don't need him to be John Watson and Patrick Mahomes. That team has just needed him to be average and he has been below average until recently early and I believe if he plays at the level. He's been playing to the rest of the season. Unfortunately he's GonNa become another Blake Bortles in Chicago. I guess that's been the thing is now we've started to get back into the Hawk Line of things where we've seen enough against opponents. Listen a lot of this. We had this conversation when Chicago in Dallas were getting ready to play the majority of the production good and bad had come against the good and bad opponents meaning that Dallas had balled out against the lesser teams on their schedule. The same way that Chicago has been trending in the last month or so here. But you're right with the relationships that's all really the catnip that these coaches and organizations need to say there's still something to build on and there's the whole notion notion of Matt Nagy Rolling all this which is the pride of saying. This is the guy I've been trying to do it with all along. And now I think we've gotten to the point this Amina where in a matter of time because last year Matt Right Nagy was being celebrated a lot more than Mitchell was when they were having success. Meaning we figure. Most of the stuff that was happening were wide open throws. Well schemed. Plays the things that we expected from from the Andy Reid coaching tree coming over to this. And now it's kind of started to flip the other way very quickly. Were Matt Nagy. I think is just as much under fires Mitchell trubisky at this point especially in the city of Chicago Auto. That's a great point and he deserves some of it. I think But it's watching him and watching watching trubisky not Ni- but well you we've seen a little bit of him on the sidelines looking like a particularly anxious version of Ryen Russillo You know watching them. I I didn't see the Completely uninventive play caller. A guy who had totally lost the script. When I watched some of those games earlier this season I saw coach coach? Who had zero faith in his quarterback I think sometimes we Desai's coaches and coordinators without recognizing that they're operating with a severely limited playbook right right now in that Dallas game that you mentioned you saw pretty much the perfect playbook for trubisky and you saw him executing those plays and when remind me a lot of the prior season actually in two thousand eighteen and when Nagy is doing that in Trubisky is actually executing and it doesn't take much he had like three point nine complete air yards per attempt? Bears fans got mad at me for pointing that out. I'm trying to help you bears fans I'm trying to hunt concern for the future of your organization because I think you deserve better but that's neither here nor there but when both of those when Nagy's calling the plays and trubisky executing just enough. It's a good enough. There're playoff-caliber team The promise is that really where you want to set. Your ceiling is an organization at the quarterback position. I don't I don't think they should Stephen a Smith show here on. ESPN Radio Sirius. Xm Channel Eighty ESPN news. Michael Junior Meena meantime still in it. Meena is this fair to say that if Mitchell trubisky right now. We're talking about ceilings our expectation if Mitchell trubisky were just performing as well as Josh Allen we that would be more than enough right now. That's such a good cop right because the bills to me are the organization that has done everything right right We did a episode of ESPN daily. My daily podcast. Twenty minutes every day a different sports story download and subscribe. Wherever you get your podcast but we did on how? The bills were assembled. And how they have completely designs organization to optimize Josh Allen. Everything about him around him his perfect he is potentially the limiting factor as they go into the the playoffs And I think you look at them and then you look at a quarterback like Mitchell trubisky and you wonder if you walked Whether or not they'd have just as much success I'd say there's some similarities similiarities. They're absolutely especially in terms. Of how athletic those quarterbacks are. I think the bills do an excellent job of optimizing Allen's athleticism Zim giving him easy design throws a he's really struggled with the deep ball. But you gotta think trubisky would probably perform better in that system than Chicago. That's always the interesting notion to me is fit. Plays in all this because I heard Wilbon and Tony or excuse me Tony Talk on yesterday about the Mahomes was competent. Always comes up in this and Mike. Well Vons assertion was that Patrick mahomes given Chicago's and he didn't even point out this regime. He said historically that franchises franchises overall inability develop quarterbacks. He questions Patrick. Mahomes could have even been as effective where you have plopped him in that same situation in Chicago. What what what are you talking about this but the idea the notion of this? Listen Mike Wilbon Zhivago sports fans so I understand kind of the lack of clarity and all of this trying to blame. Current players are the current regime for the sins of franchises. These guys had nothing to do with in in all this one right here and the only thing I would say to the notion of fit me maybe this might be. They would absolutely with that defense. have been a super bowl team. Could we maybe say that without the pairing because we know this stuff does matter. We said Andy Reid in his offense to creativity was going to be the perfect fit that maybe Patrick Mahomes isn't fifty plus touchdowns. MVP Patrick Mahomes. But that's still maybe a superbowl caliber team. Is there a thousand percent. Some people point to Mahomes and the arts after catchy gets in the open throws in Andy. Reed's offense and look Andy. Reid is probably the I would say kyle. Shanahan is now leading the pack in this regard. But he's one of the most quarterback friendly play callers in the history story of football undeniable. But Patrick mahomes despite again. The ease of the often also routinely makes throws that Mitchell trubisky. Josh Shallan L.. In numerous other quarterbacks around their age can only dream of making. I mean it's a I also by the way Nagy again coming from the read. Coaching tree certainly knows how to design nine. An offense Tailored to his skill sets skills that as well I guess the one counter you could make is the chiefs also have maybe a slightly better group of skilled player. Israeli skill players who speed is pretty optimized to what Mahomes is capable of but Allen Robinson is no joke in Chicago. I think if you switch the quarterback since Latin him that offense they would still be one of the best in the NFL. Exactly a healthy Allen. Robinson healthy Taylor. Gabriel in that offense that that entire group in there. So you're right Patrick. mahomes there's also a there's a certain line of demarcation at the quarterback level I think most of them the sum total of the parts. But there's a certain line a guys that no no matter where you put them are going to succeed wildly at a high level. It's just a matter of if that level is six super bowl's like the pairing New England or you know what you get anywhere else. Playoff runs runs deep. postseason runs etc like that. If we both agree that Mitchell trubisky is still going to be the quarterback this time next year in Chicago but we know this offseason is going going to be interesting guys on the market potentially coming up and we'll talk about a couple of maybe later on in the show that have expressed a desire to stay where they are right now. If you had a quarterback of the impending impending group of free agents guys who are going to be available that you could put in Chicago with that defense with Matt Nagy and what we believe. He is his best day. Would you would you go with their Well we should run through some of the options Tennessee's GonNa stick with Tanna Hill prolly franchise him maybe extend him So you then you got Mario hitting I think Tampa Bay he's GonNa stick with James Winston You know there's the older players who were starting to hear about like Philip rivers potentially hitting the market. Tom Tom Brady. But that will that won't happen Chicago I think the best option and I think we're GonNa talk about him later. Will Be Cam Newton but I also using its increase as we watch Guilin struggle in them give will grier shot. It seems increasingly less. Likely that Carolina's GonNa actually pull. The trigger are going to be very interesting here. We'll have more for that on you. Plus one other quarterback that might factor prominently in that. But if we're GONNA talk quarterbacks we got a close friend and a guy with some questionable questionable bachelor bachelorette takes that. We need to get some answers from so we will do all that on the other side of this break. It's the Stephen a Smith show Michael Junior Meena kinds here on. ESPN Radio Sirius. Xm Channel Eighty. We all love a good night out whether it seeing our favorite band in person or being there in the crowd cheer on our favorite team. Vivid seats needs is the top source for tickets for all live events. 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ESPN RADIO ESPN news. Sirius Xm channel eighty. Michael Junior. Fill in for Stephen Today. ESPN radio is presented by progressive insurance. Insuring cars homes boats motorcycles. RV's and more at progresive DOT com. We're getting ready so we've got a friend of ours getting ready to come up here. ESPN ESPN very own. Dan Orlovsky is GonNa Join US dinner last me. You and Dan have a group chat that started because of the bachelor and Bachelorette franchises that after Colton underwood season was was affectionately called the fence jump fans because we all spent that entire season waiting for one moment but before we get to Dan Meena. I want to ask you about a text message that you got from your mom mom so for anyone. That's not aware of me as background. I don't know how you couldn't be at this point die-hard Seahawk Fan into illustrate how deep the roots go were in a break. And what did your mom just text. You is Tyler Lockett really not pro bowl caliber. Oh God I love it as a tyler. Lockett fantasy owner to she really she really gets it. He's been I think as Tyler Lockett fancy odor you probably know why he gets a little bit under recognized. Ignored is that there are occasionally games where he kind of goes missing thing. Even though his connection with Wilson is incredible you just based on the numbers alone one of the most efficient quarterback wide receiver pairings in the NFL. He he has a nearly an eighty percent catch rate which the guys above him. I think there are only six off. The top of my head are mostly tight ends. Michael Thomas who was in a galaxy of zone so that connection really could be key to the success down the stretch. You're looking those always terrifying like Micheal. Thomas leads the NFL catches and targets and also catch percentage. It's it's truly not fair and I don't understand how it all works at some sort of weird magic and all that but We we were also talking about Mitchell trubisky and his future in Chicago. We realized during the break that it really is like. There's a dating analogy for everything. Obviously but Mitchell trubisky as we bring on Dan Orlovsky who I know is definitely on the other side of this Aspen. Dan Mitchell trubisky and his relationship with the Chicago bears in my mind. It's like seeing a friend in a relationship. They shouldn't be the in and when you tell them they should get out of that. They get awfully mad on that. Are you still someone who thinks the Chicago. Bears should be in it to win it with. Mitch ordered analogy. I'd actually to you know starting to date somebody and they tell you exactly who they are and the things that they like. And don't like it and you push the envelope and force them to become somebody not that they're not and I think that's what Matt Nagy did to Mitch Trubisky List here. I'm not I don't think it anyway. There should move on from Mitchell trubisky. Ski Guys Listen here's here's the thing we're going to move on from a guy that last year had a good year like last year had a good year and we know why because he was used in a very unique way and to the things he does well he goes to the pro bowl he has the team missed. Kick away from advancing to the the conference championship and all of a sudden this year he not used in the same way doesn't have the same success. We're GONNA wait. This can't play anymore I think he's ever going to be absolute bona fide superstar. We'll see I mean it's not in his favor but I believe that Mitchell trubisky can be a really good starting quarterback with the right coach absolutely onto that. So you're right and you're wrong dad you make make you're not wrong. I think when you talk about sort of the play calling and wanting to Mitch to be something that he's not watching the cowboys game it really the play calling calling the script. It was very resident of two thousand eighteen. And how Nagy US Mitch. And you're right. That's how they need to use him but to go back to the relationship analogy and and maybe extrapolate a little bit. Yes it is like a friend of yours who wanted a guy or a girl to be more than they were but also don't settle right like yes. Mr Bisky can be a competent quarterback in a perfectly called offense for him by the way the bears defense got them to that place. Not Mitch Trubisky last year. But why should the quarterback be the limiting factor on this team. Because I I believe yes you can get competent play out of him but the stealing for me is very obviously a lot lower than the top tier of QB's in the NFL fair point. But you also get yourself in trouble constantly trying onto chase the top quarterback in the NFL like you're the mayor years right. You're constantly yeah you you can get yourself into a bad place trying to find the Unicorn and every team wants to find that person. There's no doubt about that but would you rather have something that you know what they are. You know that it's they really good thing and that if you use it the right way and people around that's in the right situation than it can become something that is representative presentative of the man rather than or the superstar quarterback rather than aren't we got this guy and you. Can you see a very dangerous world that constantly. Traced the franchise franchise changing superstar quarterback and right pace. Can't do that because he's going to be out of a job at Matt Nagy can't do they move on from Mitchell trubisky. What's the answer I mean? Who who's the replacement where we just do? We think that every every person they come in is going to be coming to the small version of Cinderella Story of Ryan fine and he'll this year or could be very similar to another team. That's better quarter veteran quarterback that thought it was GonNa be the cure all and it wasn't talking to Dan Orlovsky with us on the shell. Pennzoil Performance Line Stephen. A Smith show is brought to you by new show. V Power Nitro plus premium gasoline now a four levels defense against gunk wear corrosion and friction as the only non married carried one on this show right now. I can assure you that if you keep trying to speed date eventually you end up thirty with about eleven candles lit watching love actually for the first time on a Wednesday night in December. So that is possible in all this. Yeah Dan speaking of quarterbacks that are often divisive on people the one thing I'm interested before we get into some of the Usual Dak Prescott Carson Wentz talk that dominates these airwaves. When you come on I do want to ask you debt? Prescott showed up on the injury report for I think the first time in his career in a limited it'd factor in practice with Zeke Elliott told us as apparently an AC joint injury. How concerned are you? And how concerned should cowboys fans be hearing that heading into a huge huge game for them this weekend. Well this is pure speculation right like pure assumption in pure speculation. I obviously had AC springs before when you get taste join thing in the moment it hurts. It hurts when you fall in that shoulder and elbow you get that AC joint thing. There is instant pain when I watched that fall in clay match. You saw him. I didn't see that I got up like it was nothing and so I don't necessarily know if it is an AC thing I've heard some people and I've seen some people I think most people probably follow pro football dock and he's talked about it could be potentially something tied to the rotator cuff. That initially doesn't bother. Are you at these go on it becomes inflamed and it's a big time issue so listen if it's an. AC joint thing will be fine. He will shoot it up he will play with through paying these the tough suit. If it is a rotator cuff thing that I've had both those injuries. rotator cuff thing is not something that you can just manage with pain because it impacts my ability you just throw the ball hard and far. So it's pure speculative if it's a rotator cuff thing I'd be way more concerned about if I'm a cowboys fan than if it's an AC joint. Issue Dan I want to ask you about this matchup. I'm not going to ask you which quarterback you prefer or to defend Carson wentz. I know how you feel about those things but I want to ask you about what Carson Wentz can do in this all important game how I guess Doug Peterson can game plan around the length of playmakers because that has been the issue she adding US Weisman so hard to evaluate wentz. This season is essentially. He's playing with you. Know people off of the street guys who barely playing the NFL And and it's funny. I the eagles were so successful using two tight end sets last year this year. They've actually been more successful but they don't have any other options. They are literally out of options. Shinzo if you're Doug Peterson you go into this game against a very inconsistent Dallas defense with the playmakers available. Gregoire junior has been great Boston. Scott who's come out of nowhere and Jj Sega whiteside who I think has been rather disappointing for them. What do you do you hear me just trying to Boston? She's like bashed in Scat Pat. I mean we heard it on the accents morning by the way. You guys can't convince me the Boston Scott is not someone in Witness Protection Boston He's Darren sproles Darren. SPROLES is reincarnated into his body. I think there has to in will throw fifteen screens. Greens on Sunday legit. I think he'll fifteen trains and cover reasons. One nine against the Redskins so one lack of playmakers. How do I get soon? Plays that that can generate some offense for other than mining guys. I've been getting them in one situation. So that's number. One number. Two equals are very good at it. because really daisin listen Kelsey and their offensive line does not staying in jobs knowing that zone coverage or man coverage and really not game like you get in one guy's way you pick off one guy and you've got in does not call them to get twenty yards time ducks great getting a six or seven yard gain on screen bass and then three. The cowboys are Adam. Adam defending them. The cowboys are twofold one because their defense is predicated on Goldfield. Feel to be aggressive and the defensive line wants to chase taste of the field and then the the linebackers are deep in your drop. Get deep in your drought. And so you've got that working for you and the second thing is just like the cowboys are bad tacklers. Their defense cannot tackle out in open space. And so if I'm Doug I'm going wait. This is something that I need to do. But it's also something we're very good at and then this is something that defense struggle with. I honestly think another sounds wild but I think this game comes down to if at the eagles can execute their screen game. Well win the game. Let's talk about the cowboys. Defense a little bit because I find them so perplexing and fascinating. You're right they have been bad tacklers. This was supposed to be the best linebacking unit in the NFL. Jalen can't cover this year. I don't know what that front seven does get pressure. You certainly saw that. They dominated the Rams Front. But I remain extremely confused by the execution by this cowboys. Defense given the amount of talent Dan at every level. Can you give me an explanation. I think the LE. Let's start with the defensive front. I don't know that defensive front plays as motivated invaded as they shit. That's I'm just being honest I thought sometimes you just don't see them getting a field and attacking to have to remember. The rams offensive line is not very good this. We've said that all year so last week performance at home was a little bit more. I think of that rather than this cowboys. Defensive Line becoming dominant. The linebacker crew with benches missed them times. But yeah they're really good but you know like everyone says like Oh you know speed kills. Oh really believe that when it comes to football and coaching I can. I can scheme you to make that speed hurt you. And that's what teams do against her. I've started to do it. Started with the packers akers canes have started take speed and aggressive play by Gaylon Smith and use it to their advantage because he plays so fast sometimes he plays incapable of execution execution. So teams are up on that and then you know. I don't know if Byron Jones has had the year that they thought that either safety's very good. They're completely tied to the defensive offensive. Line and defensive line gets pressure low secondaries are on the defensive line gets pressure the secondary is better than the defensive line is just okay. That's secondary regret getting coverage. You can follow him on twitter. Dan Orlovsky seven. We'll probably text him later in group chat named after a very famous season of the bachelor. Dan Always a pleasure to talk to you buddy. Cage's Dan Orlovsky joining us on the Shell. Pennzoil performance line all right Meena so last year in April April. You and Dominique co-authored an article about Lamar Jackson correct. That's right all right. Well coming up next in addition to previewing the NBA game. Aim of the young season. So far coming up tonight. Meaning I have co-authored a take so shocking and horrible might crack the bedrock underneath the building here in Bristol. That's all coming when I'm next. It's Michael Junior and meet a filling in for Stephen a on the Stephen a Smith show here on. ESPN radio SIRIUSXM channel. Eighty just what you're in the middle of a Stephen. A Smith is with show podcast. Debbie it is the Stephen a Smith show here on. ESPN Radio Sirius. Xm Channel Eighty. You can see us on. ESPN news when I say us. I mean my goal junior meantime filling in for Stephen a Smith. You can tweet us at Mgolicjr fifty seven at times on twitter. The show is presented by progressive insurance. I'll phone guest joins us on the Shell. Pennzoil performance. Line our thanks to our good pal. Dan Orlovsky who just joined us in the last segment and we got plenty of good stuff coming up big news on Dalvin Cook and what it means for a game coming up this weekend preview of a huge NBA. Game coming up. Tonight between the Los Angeles Lakers and the Milwaukee Bucks which will have a preview. You can hear that preview also on the ESPN daily wherever you get your podcast. And we'll have a special guest coming up the Meena talk to not too long ago about about this matchup but me we were talking. It's the holiday season and I mentioned last night. I had never seen love actually and I tweeted this out and I- remedy that yesterday. I was like you. You know what I want to see this. I'm really into trashy ROM COMS and I tweeted that out. I looked at everyone's responses before and after and I said after no matter what your opinion is about wove. Actually you're correct. Would you agree with that. Yeah because it's not a good movie but it's a great movie. Yeah so it really is honestly like one of those sports debates where every side is both wrong and right at the same time. I think it's ads. It's like definitely gently problematic. Some of the plotlines right because it's a combination of plotlines. I don't recall that in movies but I honestly honestly love what it really is. It's if you took a single montage in just made it a movie pretty much. Yeah that is true you could have that music playing in the background and it should be one montage judge the whole time but it got me thinking we've got thirty seconds left so I want you to drop this and let it hang in the ether for this break and we'll come back and we're going to react to it so I'm GonNa going to tell you the most absurd Christmas movie the Best Christmas movie I've never seen and you're gonNa tell me yours all right. I have never seen Christmas vacation. I've never seen a Christmas story story. I've never seen Elf seen the Santa Claus. I've never seen Christmas vacation either Honestly but the people are so upset in the studio right now with me. It is going to be the world's burning around all of that and more coming up next on the Stephen Smith Show here on E._S._p._N. radio.

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109: Quinn & Kerith feat. Jordan Bell

Road Trippin': Richard vs. Channing

1:02:29 hr | 1 year ago

109: Quinn & Kerith feat. Jordan Bell

"On this road trip and the Golden State Warriors duo quitting are joined by Jordan bell, though. The group covers plenty of championship glory parade memories media attention, surrounding the finals, alone, etc. They also dive into this year's envy VP to be keys to guarding. James harden, as where your feel they have quite the defensive weapons now only time will tell maybe, but they also dive into pre NBA life. Did you know Jordan was accused of cheating on a test in high school? He almost gave up basketball applied for Nike job. In fact, in Quin, everything he'd be learning about his love for improv. It's all on this episode of Roach open care Quinn. It's all you guys. Thanks allie. I'm curious Berg. Golden State Warriors reported for NBC sports bay area alongside me as my co host. Golden State Warriors point guard Quinn cook this happens when I read I should just look at you like say because I know who you are joining us as teammate former Oregon duck and current Golden State Warriors forward. Jordan people out there. Forward slash center. Whatever you need the magic. He doesn't. We are on the road. We're doing this that a conference room in the in the hotel you guys had optional practice today. What's an option? What's it? Optional practice day. Like, why are you laughing Jordan? Optional is like the stars. So it's not like a mandatory practice, but it's definitely mandatory for the young guys got it. So you gotta still going there and get your working got up a lot of shots. We all got up a lot of shots, like forty minutes and goods get a little sweat and just keep a gray rhythm, Jordan. How's your day? Good. Quentin. Gus Gus some shots up. Situation stuff that would be putting the games work and stuff like that. Today who goes hardest at optional. Practice who's going all out on any given day Quinn is pointing short. See I'm getting shot so say a little sweat. Glow game. So. Spiel time, which I respect you guys. Both part of the young guy squad for the warriors. And it's a second year for both of you. That means you want to championship last season. Jordan, I feel like you had the best championship out of anybody. I have ever seen. What are your date the bus rides in like being in downtown, Oakland and having that moment? People out there. Just a whole bear come together in one place a bunch of Hennessy bottles. Are you? Okay. If you're going to be associated with handy for the rest of your life. Me drink when it's time to jury when it's time to drink. There's no other videos or things like that like alcohol problem or anything like that like syndication during. But when I drink during hey, celebration, racial. What do you remember about that day coins? Katie would just follow him in the crowd. So it was great for me. Just hours grew up watching like different, parades and seeing different championship celebrations. Have your name when a bus? What champion on it was just incredible. So, you know, I I was last time being together, you know, that group being together. So you know, it was a great day for that day was long. That's I remember it was it was sunny outside. I mean, it was great. I'm not complaining, but you guys are on the buses for a long time. You've got people screaming at me. Like, I I didn't want it to okay did not want that data in and it was long hours. But I just knew like it was our final day being with each other. So yeah, you know, everyone fast for me. Same for you, Jordan. I mean, I I remember you. 'cause I I was I was camped out to do interviews at the very last stop blue area. And I remember clay said because he had the ankle injury during the playoffs. And he's like I had to stood that whole time on the bus. My ankle hurts and I wanna sandwich and then he walked away. And that was it. And that was the last time clay for this. Flavor. The that was it actually, Jordan. I remember one of my favorite pictures after the championship was it was it was on Instagram. I think you had the goggles on or celebrating shirtless. And it said was I not supposed to enjoy it. Right. That's my favorite moment. From free. Everybody's past though. Just tired. I'm still love with much energy. So I'm just reading tweets and people were just like like learn how to resolve public. I'm like, it's a celebration. Like you guys wrote their alcohol everywhere, but it was drinking. Everybody's having a good time. I think if this situation control situation like that time celery, and people don't understand how much work goes into. Champion. That's like the the pinnacle of basketball and really people don't understand all we go through on growing up, you know, in highschool plan a plan and college draft process, and everything is just so much that goes into it. So, you know, they don't want. You celebrate you know, as the way you want to so my favorite thing. Join last year was when we landed from Cleveland, and he put the this little video. Got carried you know. I never know pan out nj reasons or these days that the land on you have receipts on your phone that you keep not really are just opening let them so eventually skill. Going plan for the warriors. But you'll hit with a bunch of Charles. It's like. We get car cheerleaders because we're good teammates because we're on the bench like happy and and. Today's. I mean, I'm used to because I want to do I guess much of that stuff. But like it's like they don't want us to be happy for our teammates and stuff like that. So I was happy. He made that video just letting everybody know whatever you say adventure. No murder. I don't. He he deserved won a championship both of one but for him. It was his rookie season. We're on the top of the mountain Richard of what are your favorite memories of that season? Favor memories. Probably definitely championship prayed. I mean ho season was really great though, just goes like a new experience like going into high school like freshmen or going to college freshman year. So he's learned everything then like having older people to talk to meet new friends like this situation. So the whole thing which is great. I want to go back to how hard it is to win a championship. Because you guys went through a game seven with the rockets that was in Houston, go. So you had to elimination games potentially game six and then game seven then you guys swept the Cavs. That's extraordinary. So let's let's start with the Cavs though, getting that sweep doing it in Cleveland against LeBron led team when you know, the kind of competitor that in the Brown is and he learned here's that you guys are worse. But just the history between these teams that night winning in Cleveland, how much are you guys? They bittersweet for me. That's what my dad's from. So my whole family was in town on obviously the year before. Or that it was the same scenario and the Cavs one game for four game five. So I think that was a whole teams focus on just trying to do better than we did last year and finish it off in Cleveland. So I remember guys are just extra focus on. We had a laser focus the same kind of focus. We had in game six and game seven of the previous series. And we played like it was elimination game for us. And you know that game was just so quick. I was active. So you know, I had a different view on the game. Because I knew I wasn't playing, but it was just so fast. Like, I just looked up and it was like thera- quarter. We're like twelve I'm like, oh, man. This is really by the happen. So the game was like a blur to me. And I early remember the celebration. What do you think? Some reason I never remember the last game of the season play. I don't know why I just don't be a game for I don't remember. I remember like Clinton just focused who were locked in. So I don't think it was any doubt. They were going to lose that game. So everybody was just focused your job we need to do celebrate. And then once the game was over leading when a kind of normal again, seeing my family, my friends and a crowd high school coach there who's the moment that stuff firsthand like I was taken by all the international media by how many people are watching this series of round the world the demands that you guys have on your times. What is that stuff? Like the other side the work side when you're not on the court. How was that experience getting used to? The one thing that surprised me was the first practice and a final yet the price actually in your arena and at the practice. Everybody gets their extra shots, blah, blah. And I'm free throws. Like, no, we have to leave right now. Your medium cannot I ever routine lights free throws in San routine. I'd be with my ups, and they're like, no, you can't shoot anymore. And she actually got got him front of me. So I couldn't shoot. I'm like, I'm like yell basketball. Like you guys. This whole circus thing went around like our focus is basketball. It's the basketball game. We're basketball player. Let us do our job first, then we'll get to the other side of it. They were just so like no like you have to leave right now. Go yet go there. I stay stationed three station aid. I'm like, y'all. I'm like me and my fresh year like that's not the stuff like you. Don't see stuff behind closed doors. You to see you might see the practice as an interview out there then game. So that was that was a big shocker for me. All right. Remind even more back to rockets game game seven the rockets. I just saw replay of that game. Actually, it was only NBA TV. The last time you guys play the rockets 'cause everybody likes everybody. Did you watch it? I was in the workout room watching that because the first half was solid for the rockets. And then in that second half, they missed they missed twenty seven -secutive three pointers. I mean, some of that is the defense some of that is basketball gods or something. But it reminded me to ask you about James harden. He's the guy who's in the MVP hunt. Jordan is smiling. Do you just want to use tough guard? Okay. I'll prompt you if you want because I remember something that Jaren Collins said about James Harden's game that he knows the dark art of. Of drawing fouls. Okay. So there's a philosophy behind this. Like a foul means something wrong happened this. This is not supposed to happen in the game. But then maybe he's gaming the game by working to his advantage. What is your basketball philosophy here about the way? Harden, dress fouls and gets on the line Quinn. I think the biggest emphasis going into the game when you're playing hard is to not fail. So while you're gardening. You're thinking about Falun. So I don't really think you're thinking about. Okay. Yeah. The job is done if you don't found. So I think he has that age allow defenders and then his confidence is out his roof. So, you know, if you miss you miss ten free free threes in a row or any kind of shot, he's taking their level. Same confidence in as a basketball player that scary. Yeah. So be in front of. So I think a lot of times like they put emphasis on sports center and all the stuff about how he draws vows. But I think a lot of time off hours, and I just go into the game thinking about not filing which I think he's already won. So he's been the mental game. So us we have so many versatile defenders guys has excess garden that you know, I don't think we really fall into that that mental trap. So how does he do it because everybody knows the scouting report? It's don't let them go left. Don't swipe at him. But he'll still have a fifty point game. How when everybody knows exactly what is going to do. How does he? You still succeed. So well may still getting by you. In ten layups twenty points right there. He's hitting five threes. Fifteen or thirty five right there. He's into line at least ten times so as forty five right there. And then if he's hot going back. Fastbreak dunks. You know, he gets his pick and roll situation. Cappella. Seat. Not easy. That's kind of tough way to fifty is. He a talker on the court. Glare at all. Does. He look nothing. Nothing. Like, oh, you don't see. It was kind of like he, mama. I I've mentioned he's thinking like I'm gonna work out. That's what I 'cause like, you know, work, you're not talking to, you know, just focus on. And I think he sees the way. I like when I'm looking I'm like, he's seeing us like chairs to work out or comes seriously that fascist game come and pay and his crew because he does the same thing every time, and he's like you say you noticed for it. But eastern on get to he gets played the same way every game. Claes a good defender on him. Does it take somebody with special like, let clay like I say like I said, I think our guys have played them so much at the highest level. No. If we found him one time on the three or if we reach a couple of times, I don't think that phases any of us, especially primary defenders we can throw Klay. We could throw Iggy Eto. Switch on a big we J B and loon and DeMarcus is great and in Katie, you know, what I'm saying. There's so many guys. On the team will match well with them. So I think that's why the war is always been. So for the rockets just because you know, he's had to go at multiple defenders fresh Frau's. You know, just is. That's why I think Audrius injury was big for us last year because guy voucher. Audrey was always stable guy could put on anybody to get some grea stops on. So, you know, I definitely thought hundreds dollar entrees injury change serious under his some stories. I would love to have him on this podcast. Do he's one of those veteran dudes like how much how much Andrea talk in the locker room, or even how much is he in your ear about you should do this because I did this. I came through like I have this experience in the NBA. Let me make this path easier for you guys is at the heart of what he's trying to tell you because he always talks to Kvant leave. He's like diet thing. He's he's like a great fit ultimate like, obviously grew up watching them. And he's had success in this league being you know, Olympia and being star. And obviously being. Finds p now three time champion. So that's guy that we all want to be light. But he doesn't like throw it on your facial. Hey when I was your age he lets everybody run their own race. And he helps everybody. So you know, that's the way I think that is supposed to do. He's really business savvy to has given you any tips. I try to him votives. But he obviously our finance finance is real different. But I wanna start getting stuff early. 'cause I always hear about people's. I should start earlier. She was so I'm always bugging ULA. What do you think about this? You think should buy this. I if you ever have any own good like investments, let me know he always just just saving money right now. Save it put in savings like let it if you wanna put it in stocks in Basel stuff like this cool, but he's like saving his best option twenty four right? I think you'll be okay. 4._0._1._K right now. Okay. I know I'm jumping around a little bit. But I before I leave this hardened topic. I just wanted to ask do you think he could repeat as MVP? Are you excited by Yang Kupa? Are you excited by Paul George like if you had an MVP vote this season? Would you be comfortable saying who it is? Say whom I envy peas, I think they're young. So it's gonna win it though. Okay. Just because his numbers in you know, I think I have the best record in the NBA. I think they always plays a factor James when he I last year they were number one league. So I think that's really gonna awesomely, you know, win Yana still war, obviously, his numbers in his dominance is been you know, why he's in the conversation. But you're not thinking team success is gonna give them no wars body type is so easy. And I wanna respect him like, I don't even want to say freakish anymore. I think like the Greek freak like okay curious if he would get a another nickname sometime. But I don't know. But like his length his ability to move around the floor. Yeah. There's the sixty minutes show that he did he said he can take six long strides and cover baseline to baseline. I'm trying to visualize that in my head like is that? But what do you what do you notice about his game? What makes him an extraordinary young player of for me? Like he reminds me of Chris Boucher, stronger, your Oregon, Oregon because Chris like he's really good at using the strive and stuff like that. But Jonah just way bigger way stronger and better finish lanes of is difficult guy for anybody just goes you. He might take step this way. And he's right there you come over to early this is outside of ram. So as very tough guard. Glad you mentioned Oregon during the turnament upsets upset how connected do you still feel to your ductile? Very connected. Very try to go there. Doing annoying degree. No, no. You always have the shoes. But yeah, I think just the the situation that I went through having to get to Oregon sit out a year in them being there. Thank getting up. There helped me out. A lot of stuff helped me girls of best player in a man. I think our connections more. Not like just basketball player coach more like a family type thing. So I'm very connected with them. Can you share a little more with the listeners about your path to Oregon and stuff? Yeah. Little bit. How would you summarize it it was it was a long one? I couldn't go to school should have high school because this AA one of the coaches in the Pac twelve teams they tendency it will cheated on my test. So they have like doing education at to wait till like October. I took another test in front of people got the tests back score was better than I. And then. I couldn't get the you have to clean clearinghouse or wherever thing. Yeah. You have to clear by them. And they clear me like a day or two days after the last day to register classes. Yeah. And it's like January 'cause we're on quarter system. So after wait, I'll wait till next year to start. So I'm moved air Zona. And I'm just because I'm trying to get away from everybody. Everybody's like questioned me. Like when I go to twenty four hour, fitness. Like, why don't you a school? I'm just keep making up lies like their next week next week. I'm still there. I'm like, oh some wrong fly. I'm just keep telling me excuse. I'm just getting tired after the mood. Arizona working out there. My future teammate, Casey been slowly they're live out there. So minutes family got close. They helped me out with light finding thing. So I just worked with kids all day like eight. Yeah. From ages like seven to like sixteen every day 'cause like this like a little clinic, they do, and I'm like this only work. I get so. I'm eighteen nineteen year old kid or young men in like little kids doing cone drills with them every day trying to go at my pace to try to stay ready for next year. And I do like five or six months, go back home for a little bit and finally gets Oregon. And then that's what my Oregon. Incur starts humbling. You have it was it was s like that time. I was like, yeah. Like, I got the job and almost basketball because I was like I was like. Maybe it's maybe five minute for me to like to be a college basketball player male fussers irregular talk for some walking around. I apply for I apply for a Nike store job. Didn't get it because out of out for sure like stop playing and probably just my life. Just like a referee. Oh my gosh. You get to Oregon how much did you enjoy the college? I enjoyed him more than everybody else. Because just because like that year at the set out. It was just it looks like you said it was a very humbly moments. Like, I enjoyed every part of college could not every party blanche to go out much walk around campus. Like just enjoyed a whole college experience. And then got a little better got drafted wasn't three is three years three. And it was four years for you at Duke. What was your college experience? I know it's a huge question. We'd talked about that on that last podcast, but four years out of school for players want to be in the NBA who have that talent. You know, four years is would you say, it's even rare nowadays. Not really depends. But I think the older guys have tougher because they've had so much time to watch you and pick you obviously the success with the guys, you know. Knows like if you're there for years is definitely going to be tough. But on you know. I join my college experience on just from a standpoint that I got learned from you know, one probably the greatest coach ever on a daily basis, which is still used as that he told me on in my life today. No, he still, you know, coaches me today. So on from that aspect. It was fun. I really didn't like go out a lot. 'cause I was so focused on making the NBA that was my tire go home growing up. So like, I really didn't want to waste any time and stuff like that. Obviously, I had my nice where are probably feel sorry for myself and probably win out or you know, probably went off we gotta be winning something. But most of the times I was really just trying to stay focused and trying to make the NBA. And you know, I had a great four years. Yeah. Quintas talking about Duke. He played for coach K. What did you major in at school? I majored in theater. Which I smiled the time that you told me. Yeah. Oh, it was an accident. Well theater. Growing up like everybody. You know, I'm gonna do communications or you know, when you get to do does hack communication, so majority of the athletes do like African American studies like that's what they did. Carolina. Across the street. Psychology and stuff like that. Those are like the Demane majors. So I had on psychology class my freshman year a summer school, and I guess the professor got sick. So she took the semester world the summer of and I had another class and the only class I was Deiter. So I had at the editor. And I just fell in love with it. And I took improv classes because you declare your junior year. Okay. So I took some improv classes, and I took like two more classes. And then I just wanted to do it was it was tough. But it was fun at the same time. And I was the first bachelor player ever do it. So. Placker someone at school. It was cool. Because like I was the first one, and I they appreciated to me like they weren't like fighting with me about my schedule, you know, some professors where were you at like, they don't care. They don't care if you had a game in the other side of the world like you gotta be in class next day or like, they don't kinda help you work with me and stuff like that. So my teammates canes like two of my plays productions are you in hours and hours? And then I was in his Japanese play don't know the name of but me and my teammate Andre dolphins were in the play. And it was a Japanese play. And what do you mean Jackson too? Jeff a Japanese person wrote the player you had to learn the language. Yeah. Japanese play. Okay. Obviously, reimb- Japanese film director, Arthur, and yeah. So we we had to translate into English. Oh, we read it in English. We read it off the paper, but Japanese famous play. Classes. Did you take Jordan? A major Bala g. Life. Biology. It was a journalism. I with too many classes for. I just general social science. Yeah. Chose journalism because you know, you know, exactly how to do my job you really do. I know classes good near the problem. But I'm always I'm almost finished with school a couple more credits again friends, but you want to get your degree. Yeah. I promise Monte you have back on campus for that. Or are you doing like summer stuff like this would work? We're going to go up there for summer for like classes like four weeks, some classes, but they must do online. So. That's you have your degree. Where's that? Where's your degree? Yeah. That makes it did. She get to see you in some productions Nashi hasn't. Okay. She was in a group chat with Maya one like my main professor Claire Kosice in. And so anytime, I'll do well or something. She'll take my mom. So my mom was I really she stayed in touch with it because she was proud of me that I went that route and some more like just like chill. I like to be out there, you know, and I had to go on stage. And sometimes I was behind the camera and the lights one time for another film. So I was trying to learn all aspects of the film industry. You can have another career if you ever want doing. Got some stuff. I'm doing now on documentaries and stuff and just learning. Not interview spike leaves out when I was in college. Oh, yeah. About my favorite movie. So what's your favorite weeks? Okay. We it was crazy. I happened. I was in his documentary class, and we had the right? You know, just about our favorite of no biography on MandA smile. Comex obviously and we play Michigan state and pagans joy mind at the garden as fight was just say course, I I was I man cannot talk to you after the game. Then he gave my academic adviser. Kenny king is number do. You do. Later and I interviewed him wash practice. Yeah. Because you just want to. I may I say 'cause one just wanna. Talk to him. But my father said he had like an event in Durham that day. Okay. But still it's still who else is basketball introduce you to like are there? Yeah. Yeah. Jordan were there. People courtside at ducks games. Or I know there's people warriors games, but like had surprise celebrity that you've gotten to meet because basketball. Probably my favorite killing looking Loughlin the do from a stranger thing kid on. Oh, yeah. Those at the all star game last year. And I think it was at the dunk contests or dunk cuts us the players celebrity about enough back away of stable center. And he walks up to the he was like, yo he was like, hey, meme big worries fine. That's what he said. He say, yo he's I love the warriors. I'm a big fan of you. I say I'm fan of human. Coolest part. Yes. Especially now, social media and stuff like nine times out of ten. They're gonna know who you are. So obviously, we're always humble and like appreciate yours rapper entertain there another. Yeah. It'd be a legend. And they always know we are especially being on his team. So. It's like the coolest I think interacting with fans for the most part. Correct me if I'm wrong is a great experience. What's the nicest thing fan is over done for you? I'm looking at Jordan for this end. We're both of you like nicest thing fan is done. I have a lot of fun. I have a lot of fans name kids coin, really. They tell you. They said the Bill send me a lot of clipping in the painter born were naming them point after you probably like eight fan, but most most of the time they'll be Duke fans. Okay. So I've had like eighteen. Boys and girls is humbling. Got a Bella Bella. Yeah. She said he named his daughter bell having other week Kansas day so years ago, he's like daughter Bill. I didn't fans trying to help you when you're on your cookie hunt. You wanted the Christmas cookies. Gutter name, she went to Oregon, and she happened to be like, I think I to get a haircut somewhere, and she happened to be like right down the street from I was I just went to Safeway to check. And it wasn't there. And I was like leaving. She the EMI, and she sent me a picture, and I was like, yo. A yo house and she went to Oregon. She knew some of France Morgan. I was like, okay. Trustees cookies too. And then she told me like it was like a whole all store, and I was telling them she told her that I went there and his like twenty bucks timeout the sugar cookies with the snowman's reindeer reindeer Christmas. Have you given those up though, are you do you still eat tree? Sweet as much anymore. Shut it down the summer. Now. I'm like really good at like once every now and then but holidays like whenever those cookies are going to. What's your vice Quinn? Your your cheap food in general. You have a sweet tooth. Ice cream. Ice cream guys. So. This summer. I was a Pesca tearing me and my girl contains the whole summer. Heels coup satisfied. What about the frat wasn't any fry? Nothing fries. Chips. No head. Options. So I even today like I can't use them. Okay. Eight or so much summer. So we had like Archie days on Sunday's and we so bang. We cook it all I don't. Vile survive. College habits like Rahman. I say I don't eat Romney more. Yeah. Sometimes. Okay. Spaghetti O's with meatballs, not healthy. All I forget. Reminds me of my childhood dad would fix that for me. And my sister spaghetti O's. We put the the powder a struggle breakfast struggle breakfast. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Some toast. That's all you need. I don't know. I'm glad you guys have mostly good fan experiences. But Jordan you had a fan who discovered where you lived last season. Can you tell that story? So. So. Laugh about it. Because all it's it turned out. Well, but like what happened? So I used to live on like merit, and I posted a picture for the spray ground backpack on my balcony like me and my dog, but across you can see I think it's like the mill office in Oakland Tribune tower, the old the big clock tower. And it's like right across like, then all my comments like he'll you live twelve hundred lakeshore you put him. I was like, yo. And I was like nobody going listen apartment big apartment. I'm gonna exactly what you wanna live in. But. Coming from practice guy. Low creepy looking guy always had a backpack. I always wanted to sign clothes and he likes him for autograph. And I was like my freshman Liam is some stuff and I kept seeing them every day. And I was like, I kept sinus. And I'm like, yeah. Is low creepy now. So when I will come I'll just drive really fast like Dr inside the garage. I think our first row or second row trip. We went to San Antonio. And my girlfriend was living with me, and she called me stick the dogs out and he liked cave behind grabbing whereas Jordan what? And so she ran. Her round turned around whereas Jordan, she freaked out Reynolds dairies called me crying scared and we have a dog like she has to go outside to take him out. But I think my brother came up he started taking the dogs out and stuff like that. So we got to move out from that. How quickly did he move because it was tough because they would let me on my lease. It's a safety thing. That's what I told my Gouda bunch of stuff. And I was like is it a way out of the let you have to make a police report Mehta fleecy pool, and they were still fighting it, and then the owner of the manager with two different companies those new manager coming in and she noticed situation. She thought I was trying to hustle or whatever. So it was just tough you. I think we're still dealing with it right now is just gonna ask are you safe? You're. Oh, yeah. Most of my time. 'cause it was like it was Logan on. It was like hail on all the house. And I thought it was snowing. I was I know Snowden took feature. And then once he told me he saw it takes us down. You can tell where I live on the what? Cautious. I can take a different direction happier direction because you've got two dogs now. Okay. So you has princes Princeton Koba what Princess of the pit bull was a husky. They get along. I love each other one in a cage at night like when he wants my room like stem butter door and cry one of these. One of these. I I saw the video on Instagram where Kobe get so excited that he pees. That's why make sure like downstairs. There's a hard enough carpets. Come in and make a bunch of noise. When the doorbell come down get his little peo-. Did you grow up with pets Quinn? A dog growing up. Okay. I'm going to start his family. Big can't be big pretty. Like nine to nineteen twenty. Yeah. Maybe eight to twenty see you went away to college and Bentley's like quit quiz. Do you wanna talk? Now, do I'm like I want the same forever. And I'm gonna name it Bailey. Okay. Only one. Name is it hard with your lifestyle. When you're on the road so much. I don't mean. I don't I don't think 'cause I live on my cell phone. I'll probably couldn't have a pet. Okay. So I want one by myself. But yeah, I don't think I have. Right now, would you guess have Doug's? Steph claim me. I thought he did in my own. Okay. Katie used to have a dog. I think. Oh, no. It's it's gotta feel so nice to come home to somebody who loves you. Dan. I love it. Yeah. Did you train your dogs? Did you train them for more? Okay. I did it myself not me and my girlfriend, but it's like we train them. But they don't like train. Okay. If I go to bed dog walked to the bed and turn around, and he he's. Closer look at me. If I stand up here rung on a been wants to here come off like he's one of those like he's trying. He knew what the bed me. She just doesn't know. Like when I say you have to what kind of tricks is your dog try to pull like they like toddlers. They will mess you write something that was like so wrong. But you couldn't get mad because it's fun. So my daughter she like last week. I have some wingstop my friend Ronca Russ morning stop. And we got a bunch of ranches out and was open, and I'm sitting on the floor and ranches way on the table tables. Kind of loan is right in front of me. He walks up looks at he looks at the ranch looks at me, and like just starts licking want. Crazy, I can't drink milk. And I'm like he stops looks goes right back at on. Like, you've never gonna cage. It's like I couldn't beat that mad. But to those funny gosh, that's put him in a cage. I love your interest five your dogs are like Instagram stars yet. Yet. Well, this is the road trip in podcast. You guys still have a road game left in LA. And I know this for you grew up Jordan like if you had a pure day off, no work. No, nothing honestly free to do whatever you wanted to do in LA. What are you doing on that day? So stuff to do. Probably go to build tacos. I gotta get some tacos from nearby USA. Probably go to six flags where couple of hours come back. Go to the pike downtown each gets them coast on and it just walk on the beach or wanna path. Okay. Have clean was with you. What was you on the show him? He said we roscoe's chicken for Sunday. No. That was like my third, but I hadn't been like five years molasses time. I took a visit at UCLA. Okay. So that was twenty ten oh off campus. Okay. Plate is that where we worked out in the summer is that right? UCLA UC. Yes. Okay. That's my first time. I haven't my visit. Did you have roscoe's for your first time as a warriors player? Like, can you is every when you visited our people like oh. Like, can you go to roscoe's and eat a meal like a regular person or do people start coming around you like, hey, your son's? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Because I'm so curious about what it's like for you guys to exist in public because I see the fans outside of the hotel couldn't Steph. Okay. Work can go to disk. Can you still navigate kind of incognito? Yeah. I'm no me. I'm regular, okay. Jake hole. How often do you get mistaken for J? No more. No. Are you li- Nassir? I'll get on get no more like, okay? Well, hey, it when I started I never got until I start growing my hair, and then he gone ahead, it some wild hair. So it was like a two year span where I get you. That's right. He's so annoying. Like, I hate him. People say I got hate it so much, but. Hairs crazy. I'm kind of you know, taking that next step in my career. So. Hey, they know me. Did you George remind me you grew up a Lakers fan? Ooh, I'm sorry. I got I hit anything my brother. Josh. Aw. Okay. He like Koby like LeBron. You do LA do now. Okay. What's? 'cause he wanted to do. I hate everything about do. Or I used to. I hate equipment. I I saw this little. So. Ice than who like a coup. He just getting older everybody who do. Song and you'll ask the hasten money because the school they went to that is do you sense a difference between east coast and west coast guys different approaches attitudes? There's a difference. Just I mean for me, I could tell do where he's from just high talks high walks just his whole demeanor. Yeah. So from Chicago, he's if I if I is I would think he was like a forty five year old man with the gravel he hasn't as various. But the way he talks, but he's got such a great story. Everywhere. This is just crazy. I like how many joining are heated off. All right away. Away. Just. Have you have you have this image? Like like a person. I did not like in college was George near like, I couldn't stand. There wasn't. There wasn't a reason. Why? And then when I met him he was like the coolest, dude. I I like Joe. And when he was a call I liked him on. No, I heard I heard about a story. I liked hardy play. Okay. And when they lost they lost a who you have to go to before they be Kansas. He was he was the way he was talking after the game. I just liked I like him. They lost Carolina. I've seen the passion. How much hurt him? I like him. Like, hey, like me. We we the best friends now. Now that you guys are in the league. Is there a player that you thought you knew or disliked or like, you know, this guy seems like a jerk or something? But now that you've got Noam you're like, he's a cool, dude or people misunderstand this player. Cousins. Yeah. What did you think you knew about? 'cause he was just do Yale as always Cussing just me Norway's than you get around. I'm not a coup. He just play like when you see him on the court plan with passion off the Corey like he's super coup always cracking jokes REU lay back coup around like Tanna like counseling acquainting like you kinda like you not to put like judge a book by covered type thing. Because the way you see something media or what school? They went to whatever it is like someone just like day like you can just like my own like, you kind of mentioned take step back like to give them a chance to for him to mess it up or. He's funny. He's got a good sense about him. I don't even think I even know how deeply funny he is. Because I don't see the stuffing says, can you tell you story fit floor fit for a podcast. The ten years now. So we go we go away with. Oh, so we played high-school. We played a tournament on in high school in Hawaii. And we wait a minute. He's for mobile from DC tournament was in Hawaii Hawaii top schools like the top night schools play and we played against each other. They beat us by like four and just after we had like three days left like me or one of my teammates him in one of his teammates would just hit it off. Like, we did we went to breakfast together every day we like chill in the computer room everyday. When my space was out. So we all like picking on bass bass and stuff, and we just kept in contact. And when he entered the the league after his one year Kentucky, he did his Predrag stuff in DC. So at that point, I was about to be a senior. So I just got my license. I was about to go to Okayo. So now always come get him like pick him up on take them to my little spots and just had my friends around him at all times. And we used to go. Ago who together and stuff? So we always just was stayed in contact and knowing got to league, I was always hit him up. You always give me vice on colleges, and you know, when I wasn't playing supporting me, and then we got back together in Orleans, and you know, it's been a been a nice ten year run for us. Yeah. I don't know if this is a secret. But I think people look at boogie, and they see how like I know if he glares at me if he likes to be with those is for just a second. I'm like coach. Oh. But then he'll smile for a second. And then you can see how gentle heart like just how tender he is. Do you think because he's got this tender heart and a large package that people just don't understand obviously, like like with JBC like, you know, see him on TV. Now, he plays extremely hard. He's very passionate about the game in, you know, sometimes the media certain ways to kind of make a person look a certain way. So you know, when he gives a tech. That's what everybody's gonna see guessing scrimmage. Everybody's gonna see. That's what everybody gonna pay attention to. But they don't, you know, if you ask innovating mates, you know, how good of a team here's or no kind of relationship. He has he has relationship with everybody on our team. And like the perfect example was him and DJ like if you watch, you know, their relationship in their interactions when DaMarcus wasn't planning DJ was playing like he was so happy for deejays us always chair. He's always trying to help them get to where book years. So. I like you can go down the roster from two way guys to anybody team. He has relationship with everybody team coaches included. And you know, I just think he's misunderstood. I like when an opponent would try to take three by your bench 'em, boogies just. Yep. And that was the funniest thing. You've heard him say to somebody. Jordan. Discover the Mike, but he he's got. Because he must have guys. He sees their souls Ono. He's timid. Yes. Guess what? Similari- know each other since I've seen no show the sign school. He was like he said something about about whenever you wearing practice. Lebron wears number six for actors, and so he kind of look back and laugh response as we wanna use things off. Number. He. Sixteen. Let's just did the thing where he crossed up. Jeff green. Well, okay. The DC guy. My. If you cross somebody up if you bring break their ankles. Do you have to take the shot right after that is it like? Okay. You have to take the 'cause it's like it's like if you cross them up miss, and I'm gonna show that highlight. So you've gotta you gotta make it. Okay. But I think it's better to take it and miss than to not take in the past. Okay. Okay. How as young is? Did you navigate the unwritten rules of the NBA or situations or like, how hard do you go on the free throw line or like moments of hustle or any of that stuff? Like who schools you through this kind of stuff? Well, for me like I didn't really understand like, you know, at the end the game we're supposed to dribble to clock out. Or take the turnover. Always. Even. When I got here. Like, I didn't want to be that rookie like to be like like Rick. What are you doing? So I always win that never take the shot. I'll always take the Shaq Shaq violation and my vet in New Orleans Quincy pond and Jerry Jackson. You know fella. How many minutes you play tonight? I was like I played like a minute thirty seconds Comey shots. He take. None. Don't you regret? Not taking that shot. So I started taking the shot, but if the clock there's no shock on. I think that's unreal. Rosie. Okay. Guys like in little skirmishes, just because like last does that lie. He'll take layer. Whatever. So there's a couple of longer and rules. What does he have to learn Jordan, especially that rookie year? I think the free throw box out there. Unilab like if games over some you're not supposed to go hard know. And I remember who did I hit somebody really hard. They were kinda like standing by the no like I wasn't. I'm looking at the ball. And I just Chuck them. He was like yo route chill out like. Chill out on which you mean was like he was like he's like you understand it and one of our coaches Jaren I told me he was like, yeah. Like understand like what it's time to like games over. We all we are trying to get paid. Like, no jury stupid things like that. He was just chill out. But it's like for me for me like the court. And when I went when you're coach wants a time out there tell you like bring it to the sideline. So you don't signal out. You just pointed to ref when I did that for the first time. That's when I was. I I've been that's something. I always paid since you only do in the NBA like drove down a court your coach time out like they own single time. You know what I'm saying? So what I did that last year? I think I think we're playing a bullets. It was the game where us going like that. And when I. Yeah. I never did it in New Orleans. So lashes my first time doing an MBA. What was your first game like Jordan when you played the bulls? And you know, they cashed rations that kind of stuff. I think you had a lot of eyes on you in that game own awfully that people send me up to do. Because like somebody may do that. Talking about you like I remember my put the put the battery on your turn me on. I just kept talking about the bulls books. I I never thought about it. I was like they do me a favor, and it's still thinking about like, you know, businessman, and then I got things like when my first time getting interviewed out of the practice on cameras in my face. It's weird. I get all these tweets of stuff people mentioned in me in Chicago Bulls and tweet, and then I guess it a game. And I see the. Fan night Friday posters. My face my face. Never anything. Yaas my face let I'm like. Oh, that's weird. Yeah. It was like what would they put me on that? And then people just going locker room people's that action button. And I was a little phone with it. So they started me I didn't play like three games in his third me. I'm like. You're sending barred for that moment. Along with some fun stuff. This season. Chicago was the scene where clay had fourteen three pointers. What was it like being on the court with him or even just witnessing that when when a guy is that hot? So obviously, we always next to each other on the bench and clay have been in a phone, and he was shooting in in warm ups. Our what clearly credit I told your, and I said, I see you're looking as is the he is I his first two shots him. On hitting Joey I like ten points. I mean, he scored fifty three core. What did he say? After that game. What did he do in the locker? See? Perplexing to me. He he ends up with a hairband on. That's right. Got messed up like headband clear. Oh my gosh. Well, we just coming off a game. We I'm sorry. I don't play for the team. But we as warriors people. Katie just had the game where he went twelve thirteen the best shooting night of his career. And he told me afterward. He knows how many shots he's taking. How many he's made? How many he's missed and I'm like that was pretty cool to hear somebody like mitt that to know in his mind that photographic memory of what's happening out there. When you're on the court with the teammate who has that kind of hot hand, how do you operate? How do you either feed him or make sure you're staying out of the way or like how do you witness that and help him out with that? That's pretty simple. Yeah. But you let them do whatever he wants to do. How do you have the instincts like to sense like tapping toward Belot Claes gonna get hot or it? Can you sense when a teammate is about to get hot? Can you feel something in the air? I mean, obviously when his team like we have so many players Kate. It's not it's not surprising. Crazy like shooting displays or crazy things. Crazy stats that these guys get, but nor have guy go to over thirteen knows incredible. And know I noticed he was eighty eight and you know, just a shopping. I mean, they weren't tough shots like he wasn't shooting to protect it. Like he was still being aggressive still taking tough shots. But obviously know him being seven feet what the handle me every shot is is a great shot. I mean, nobody can can guard him. So he's been in a great grew. I think he's missed two shots last three games that so he's an incredibly right five six twelve thirteen. Yeah. So he's an incredible incredible offers group did he say anything to you have time. Does he? Eight. Okay. He told you he he he. I think I was talking to. Oh, I. I'm my bed. How much talking happens at halftime? I mean, what do you guys are you eating a sandwich in there? You're eating late vic-, Sean, levies and comes out with PB and J. I imagine if you need to get re-taped re-taped, maybe Steve says a little something. But yeah, are you checking your phone halftime? Can you say that? I'm sorry. I don't get anybody in trouble. I'm so brainwashed. Like. Call on your phone. Oh, yeah. Have time riots at the game. Like our coaches getting after you. I wouldn't do that do. So I'll just. I'll just. I don't I just don't do. All right. We'll close on one more question because I feel like social media and just the coverage in the way that people consume games is so interesting, hopefully, it's light hearted. Hopefully, it's memes. Hopefully, it's funny stuff, there's an ugly side. But what do you think? Now that you're in the league about dealing with not only the scrutiny on the warriors. But the way that people want to have a conversation about the games are playing. Tense yet. Very intensive. It's like I was watching something other day. Oh, Coby Coby interview on once on ESPN. And he was like, you know, back in the day or back when he first started. You know, you played a game you had to wait to the next morning to read the paper or no wash the radio. I mean, why CV you listen to the radio and find out what people thought about you. Now, it's wrath of the game is right then and there so you got all night all morning into you know, here how good you are our how so. I like the social media aspect. I think it gives fans. Great insight on the players like growing up. Like, I wish I could follow Michael Jordan or Allen Iverson Kobe Bryant every single day, but it's a given curse. Sometimes do everybody has an opinion with it. So non sounds ten. You know, they'll say stuff on there that they wouldn't dare say to you in person. Oh, no. They never seem to your face. So it's an interesting dynamic. But for me, you know, I liked it. You know, social media's in our game. I think no us athletes, we have platforms to inspire and help, you know, Chinese to wear when I think, you know, we're doing a great job of that. And for kids to see that work that we put in what comes with it. I think it's great. Is it fun enough for humorous enough to keep you on social media? Yeah. Yeah. You kind of have to know for news on there for sports stories, but the rest of it just feels like a fire hose, it's like. Yeah. I don't like a fun game as. It's I I love it just because like people getting silent inside of our lives and also cannot get inside it. It depends on what we put out. So we have the control of how much we get to let you I'll see you guys to know. So I love that part that we haven't troll over like people still get to get inside like live as much sponsor. I think it was a conversation were Koby said the three goats are him. Lebron james. Oh, okay. This was he was I think it was Jim Rome. He was promoting his his book about an I wasn't moving. God it. Okay. Oh, he's a B on Mike and Mike in the morning. One of those mics. I don't know. He's promote his new book wizard, a some, Mike. Okay. But how about that the three goats Kobe? Lebron MJ? What do you think anybody? You wanna add or subtract there? Or subjects me your water. I'm going MJ nine. Jay, J, MJ Kobe. Lebron? Okay. What do you think that order? Reminds us basketball aid. So I didn't. But I watched Kobe bunch of my family's all fans Koby fans, but I would go. Lebron MJ Kobe. Okay. That's just Mita. But I'm biased because Brown like grandma say played outside playing on the Ellen. Yeah. So and he's still playing. Well, yes. But you can also see his game is the freshest is right there in front of the Mark. Yeah. Watching them like this is what I think. But I I didn't watch Jack I came in basketball and basketball freshmen high school so see J stuff every now and then whenever they play YouTube only showing a good stuff. So I can't really, but I know from this stuff a little bit audits. I do see e. I wish we I wish we we were odor. No one was really. Yeah. I wanna. Say about MJ miss OMI stored. The face. There's nothing. Differently like stories like YouTube videos or watching like Howard classics. There's nothing like watching a game. And then waking up the next morning going to school and talking about. Then you're excited for the next game. Like of Bryan like we got to experience that. So I mean, I I remember watching Koby I mean, Michael Jordan ninety ninety seven ninety eight win the championship. I was four fires are member that but I wasn't watching it like as a basketball fan. Like, I didn't really know. Like really about the game. I couldn't like argue or like have a educated conversation on a game. So I wish that I could have. Yeah. I remember watching that the bulls dynasty with my family, and I was young and my mom really loved Dennis Rodman. She said if you could ever meet Dennis Rodman, please get his autograph. DC? So he he had my city really really really turned up. Yeah. So obviously he wasn't nowhere near what it wasn't a bullet. We still get like forty sometimes fifty sometime. So no that was that was pretty cool. Well, it was unbelievable experience for my city guys. We've talked about so much. Thank you for your time on the road. We're gonna call this a wrap. You can tweet us at carrots Burke is at Q cook three to three and Jordan once or Twitter. That's one Jordan bell. All right. What's your Instagram? Jay. Two. Shut out to the road trip pod as well. NBC sports bay area dubbed nation, make sure to subscribe to the road trip in podcast rate us five stars. And give us some guests suggestions for the next episode and feedback so Jordan Quinn. Thank you so much. I'll see you guys. Accent.

Michael Jordan basketball NBA Oregon Quinn cook Katie James harden Cleveland LeBron Golden State Warriors Nike Jordan bell LA MVP clay Chicago Paul George Belot Claes
Taking News: Training Camp Edition | Group Chat

The NBA Show

1:13:39 hr | Last month

Taking News: Training Camp Edition | Group Chat

"Alone welcome group chat the ringer's weekly. Nba group discussion. Where the keys always to not have positive people. I am just in various and joining me today. Jonathan sharks sub guys rob mahoney. Justin just excited to get back out there. You know we got a great group of guys. This year we brought in a great guest. I've always respected his game. I've always respected him. As a competitor. I think the sky's the limit for us on this pod. Today were willing to play fast this year and he can definitely push the tempo you may know him from the daily dime live cover live chats and also many other things including the athletic and radio shows and all the other stuff but he's at carper. What's up man. Hey what's up guys. What a pleasure to be here. As i could tell you seem very excited ever going to bounce around some news from. I think it's training camp or it's almost training camp. It's media zoom week in the nba. Because this season is already upon us. We're going to go through a couple of items that popped up from some of these media sessions and find the perfect take for all of them all that coming up next. This episode is brought to you by gatorade from a fifty years. Gatorade has fueled the best athletes to rise to the occasion during their biggest moments from young athletes just are in turn heads to some of the best athletes to ever play their games. Data rates shows there the proven fuel of the best then now and forever. Nothing beats gatorade. This episode is brought to you by microsoft teams. Now they're more ways to be a team with microsoft teams. Bring everyone together in a new virtual room. Collaborate live building ideas on the same page and see more of your team on screen at once. learn more at microsoft dot com slash. Team we are here. We are ready to take We are going to go around. Some of the most important news items that have popped up around the league and we are going to do this by trying to find who can find the best. Take the right take. There's always one that just rises above the mall We're gonna pitch a couple of them. Whoever has the best ideas in sasha our intrepid producer is going to rate them and pick out the best one. The first one is a very lighthearted subject the covert absences have started already in the nba. The warriors had to move the started training camp because they had two positive tests. The wizards had a positive mogambo. Believe it or not is still dealing with the positive test that i think that he had in the bubble clippers that he's a ways away which sounds pretty dark here so on that note. Zach take for this. I was hoping i'd get to start. Yeah that's good man. We love money like that is. That's a take because that's what you see. What all sports right now like. We're getting a wednesday afternoon. Nfl game pretty soon. We're getting You know we can celebrations in baseball where we know. The guy's got kelvin. We just don't care Things are surging this country. So why not have kobe problems. And that's that's gonna be the tricky thing for the season right and that's why they're rolling out the first half the schedule before they even come up with a second. The schedule is because they know they're going to have to build in covid breaks. They're going to build in postponing games and making them up and probably back to backs and all that and it's all about money and it's always about money like i don't want to pretend like it's been about the love of the game now it's a billion dollar business. It's always been about money but this just shows when when obama is like a ways away from coming back from something that he had what six months ago or whenever that was like it's an it's a reminder of like this is serious i have a proposal because x ray. It is all about money. I think the nba should give team special dispensation to give any any player who stays in the room on a road trip. A bonus jack up that per diem. There's shake you know. We're going to put the police. Crime scene seal sticker on the door. If you open it at any point before the game you lose your bonus that's fine. You opt into it. If they sealed you get five. Hundred dollars added to your per diem for the day. Let's let's rack it up. i like. Don't underestimate the allure of a couple of hundred bucks. Somebody's pocket and let's keep everybody safe in the process. What about home games without qualify the front door of your house. I think a lot to do it road only or else. We're getting into some police state territory quickly because other than that. It sounds sounds not police state at all. Right hotel room. Hey it's optional. Can i play devil's advocate here so not to be the one to be like. Oh yeah people. Getting sick from cova is totally fine. were we not expecting some of these positive test to come just as soon as everybody comes back into the building especially after the holidays like i don't know how many will ultimately get and how many will get publicly but i think you would expect some people to show up and test positive for this stupid like i'm not saying your questions do but like isn't that whole idea of like well. Of course people going to get covert. It's out there. And like i had a holiday where i didn't get covid. I managed to do it. And i'm stupid right like i'm an idiot. You guys know like like. I'm not i'm not a person. I managed to have a holiday. The thanksgiving without getting covert like. It's still all up to choices in this country and choice it will around the world to but especially in this country and like people are just choosing to like how i wanna live my life like. I don't i don't like yes. You have to build that into whatever this process is going to be. But i don't i don't know that we should just blindly like pass over like well. Yeah of course people can get covid we could. We could copay. You're also an instagram influence. Her so you know them. They're just getting out that. No i mean. I'm not making a moral judgment about whether or not people should be saved. Because i obviously think they should be. I don't leave my house before the sacrifice for you. I think teams would have to expect that there would be some players who did this. And so here's like an actual real repercussion of this. I do wonder and this could be take. Even though it is a bit mild like will be more important in his. Mba's and. i wonder if he might. The hawks who loaded up on every single position to the point where there the last player roster is. Probably chris done at this point. I do wonder if teams like that have built in advantage to paper over some the absences. I imagine every team's gonna have also maybe teams or players don't like each other have an advantage because they're farther apart away from the game right wasn't like fifteen players fifteen cavs sweat for real this year. It'll be like the early two thousands lakers. Yeah yeah if you could get jimmy butler back on the wolves. They'd be amazing fantastic. No because he just be screaming and spraying burn get set. It's everywhere i mean. I just think the the main thing here is. It doesn't really build a lot of them or excitement leading into these games coming back. Well i did find that kind of whole line of thinking a bit more persuasive when we were talking about the bubble the idea that oh this is the system working as intended when players showed up and started testing positive for the bubble because then once they get inside their safe. This is just what the league is going to be for. The next few months is going to be guys constantly in and out. It's going to be test popping up all over the place and to pretend that there was no covid influence. Even the bubble. I think it's a misnomer. It just wasn't among the players and the staff. It was among the people who are working those events. So there's you know we got a long way to go even stage. Nba games well. Also i don't know that i would include the staff on that in the bubble because we only got reports from the nba. No players tested positive. Like yeah but there's like thousands of people there we should get some kind of update on those people as well in the league. Just kept it very much to like. Hey these four hundred and fifty are guess three thirty or whatever it was that point like these guys are good justin on top of that to like. Yeah we're expecting positive test. That was going to happen. The mogambo thing is important. One right like the long-term issue that's the concern because even like if he's healthy a month from now. This was an important off-season forum coming into his third year. He's not been great at all as a player he needs to get better this offseason. He couldn't even work out. That's the concern is like three four five years now. A guy who had covid of things are gonna come and go. But the what's the long term stuff that's the issue obviously. Yeah he was already bad. You mentioned you what i'm you know. I'm only kidding that's yeah. That's that's scary. When when things like that happen. And i haven't paid too much attention to football because i've tried to find some way of a break from sports during the week or two. We've had off here. But like i mean you guys are in the heart of dallas like. It seems like things aren't going very well the raccoon anywhere just like. Let's let's be real. We're just wearing cowboy hats out here. That's the only thing puts a puts a brave face on okay. Any other takes that we haven't gotten off here Will this make the regular season even less relevant than or less interesting than than prior. Because it'll be interesting because we're going to have a lot of like gymnastics to do in terms of getting the season completed. But i think you're gonna see a lot of guys out. I think the point about depth is important. Because i think you're gonna see a lot of these like twelfth thirteenth guys on the roster getting minutes throughout and i wonder i wonder how like good the products. I think the playoffs will be good. But i wonder how good the products going to be up until we get into that like push for the plan tournament. Could it make it less interesting to watch but more relevant in the long run because if some some great teams wind up in the wrong side of the playoff bracket wind up losing homecourt advantage. Because of all this. I mean if you if you have players who are out with covid for potentially a couple of weeks at a time like a lot of people in the league kind of earmarking around three weeks as as a potential possibility for some of these guys with the way the schedule is compressed. You could miss a lot of games really quickly which could tilt a lot of the regular season standings. i guess i'll go full hipster here this year for fifteenth man. That's exciting right. Second round draft picks two way contracts us. Break them down bring jeff with the. It's going to be a lot of a g. League ignite blogs sprouting up over the next couple of days Yeah i also wonder what the fact is going to be on the ords race. Like we've always said like the player who's just available. The most has an advantage and lucas connah's spoke to this. He's basically like what. Would i referenced in in the top here just that the team that isn't going to have the positive tests are going to probably have an advantage here so i don't know i'm not too thrilled about the basketball to come at the very least it seems like when i guess when the lakers are building depth in their team. I think that's a bad son. Sorry sasha on that no would you like to rate our takes. Who won i would. I've had only one on my mind for the past few minutes and that is bring on a police state. I think that is fantastic idea. I think we should do this. I think this is a great players. Said they are getting as much money this year. You know. let's put a piece of crime scene tape across their hotel doors and then inject a few hundred bucks into their bank accounts. Fantastic idea rob honestly. It's a good idea. Thank you wins. We called the andrea wool. Because he used to always use like save his per diem and just do the media dining before games legend. All right now onto a much more cherry topic kemba walker perhaps has a knee. Injury that could sideline his entire career So kemba walker is out at least until january. After receiving stem cell injections in his left. Knee says the same knee that bothered him going into the bubble. The more dire part of this is that although they don't expect surgery danny ainge was basically like we'll see this year of this is going to be a lingering thing he also as we remember Probably tried to trade him. It's unclear what rumors are what the celtics but it did seem like he was willing to do that. So i'm gonna go with this one. And i'm just gonna fast forward here. I think the take is that jason. Tatum is going to win. Mvp or is going to become the dark horse. Mvp candidate jejomar quite quickly. Because if you think about it. It's all about the the narrative especially this year. We're talking about absences being key just to the race. I imagine he's going to take a leap for without gordon hayward there to share the ball without kemba their share the ball. I dunno it just shapes up that we don't expect much for the celtics this year if they get the two seed or something he's dropping twenty eight points a game it's like. Oh jason. Tatum rose above what was expected of them. And he's he's just guy our guy this year. What are you guys. I think i'll spend afford a bit base like what you're saying. Justin it had to happen one way or the other right like boston couldn't be kemba walker. Seem anymore no matter what i would say. Last year in the playoffs it was kind of like kemba taking the last shot or is it hand taking the last shot. It was just weird kind of back and forth energy and like the reality is if you're closer is five foot eleven closer and based on like an am hour fastball. Like he's just not going to work in the playoffs anyways. So it's got to be tatum's team. It's got apple at some point mazda. Mazal be now. I would different take Elect offer this is a make or break year for danny ages reputation In that he tried to treat like. I reported this for the athletic in the one time of year. I do reporting Where he tried to trade cambe to the bulls for the fourth pick you try to trade kemba to the cast of the fifth pick. They were trying to get your holiday and the asking price at the time was a top ten. Pick accept everybody with a top ten. Pick new. They resigned jrue holiday so no one was really flooding that market. For the pelicans and then the bucks blew that up. By saying here's five picks right. Here's control of half a decade worth of draft. And then danny like we're not going to do and everyone else was like. I'm not gonna do that but in doing that. It's another example of we had this injured guy. We brought him back to early. We played them too much in the playoffs. And now we're trying to move him. They did with isaiah. Thomas and everyone freaked out right. They completely flip out because the everyone loves. It in oh. My god you know the death of his sister and he played so heroically and all this stuff which was all true but then like they played them to fourteen games after that that death of his sister game and in ran his hip into the ground. He'll miss out on hundreds of millions of dollars because of it right And that get kinda soured like a lot of players thoughts on the celtics. And i think it was a factor. I think anthony would just want to be a laker in you. Know there's a whole rich. Paul connection but i also think that that was a factor in like you know i don't think it was a major factor but it was a significant factor on some level. Of maybe. I don't want to be a celtic. And now if you're doing this again with kemba another another beloved guy around the league like i think danny angel if if he doesn't handle this this injury properly just in terms of getting him back on the court if they rush him back at all and something bad happens to kemba like i think players are really going to look at the celtics franchise sideways. Yeah i thought it was interesting. Even in that press conference that he gave yesterday he kinda admitted that they weren't really sure if they took the right approach with kemba which was pretty scary. I think to your points act like if he didn't have this reputation if he wasn't so vaunted like we'll be looking at him sideways. I getting flashbacks to the pelicans situation where they let guys do this. I mean they let quincy pond next year play through a playoff series and he literally was never the same although he like any came back with the spurs like three seasons later in his legs were like toothpicks. Like the legitimately different. And so yeah. It's it's kind of a scary situation and it doesn't help that. He's turning around and looking to trade kemp before they even really fully admit this publicly. I mean i think it's a great reminder that managing a team running a team is such a holistic job right like you could be great at the trade part of it. You could be great at the negotiation part of it and you might slip up whether it's injury management whether it's personnel management whether it's retention as we've seen teams like the warriors who have had this brain drain over multiple years like it's so hard to do every part of the job right and so it really does seem like a matter of time before even someone like ain't who may be good at other parts of it slips up in some other area also if you're a player like you got to have your own doctors discount to these. These teams are in your best interest. I located in the warriors couple of years ago. Like at this point when you come back. You're taking your hands. You know that every time and you can't teams looking out for you. Yeah well we'll talk about the celtics just ahead of them really quickly here. What do we think about them without hayward and without kemba for short here do we have any faith in that they can turn this around pretty quickly or charlie writing about this on the cipher tomorrow. Do you think they're fine. If they just elevate marcus smart and work in some of these big men they have. I think so i. I'm excited for the celtics. I think for a long time. Tatum brown and smart have always kind of had to fit in. There's always been older guys ahead of them. They'd make them share the ball. I think if you're boston you say i have a twenty two year old a twenty three year old and a twenty six year old all ready to get better. They're all great defensive players. They're all good two-way players. That should be the top three of a good team to me. There's no there's no real concern. I think you've got your pieces in place already. Just keep it going forward. But i think there's another take that comes from that. Which is maybe. This is just accepted given cameras injuries but would have been better off as a team. If had just kept terry rozier and potentially been able to keep gordon hayward as a result of it because then you don't have quite so much tension in terms of sharing the ball responsibility. Everyone can do a little bit more. I mean if you can start marcus. Smart he's a pretty dynamic playmaker at this point in his career. You could start brassiere. you'd wanted to. He's turned into like a forty five percent. Catch and shoot three point shooter. And you basically have gordon hayward to run point forward to do a little bit more of the playmaking if you're able to convince him to stick around like i'm not sure i don't like that version of this team a little bit better than even with a healthy cambe. Here's the one problem with. That is rosier sucks. So like he is like that's tough to keep a guy who sucks around the money the money it would take. I do love to having let they're paying rosier and hayward fifty million dollars in charlotte combined. That's pretty that's pretty amazing. Sure that's incredible. I like the celtics team like i. I have some concerns about the depth and obviously the kemba injury hurts but the pickup of of tristan thompson. I thought was just like one of the best pickups of the offseason like i kinda kind of seemed like it went under the radar leggings. Exactly what they need to defend all over the floor can rebound great rim-protector but he's good at being in position that's a hundred percent what they were lacking last year And i think as long as tatum and brown are healthy like that duo was just like. I'm all in on that. Do of like they're. They're so good they can carry this team and there's just do. Oh yeah exactly every year but is it too many big men. No because you have thais there you have robert williams who time how dare you. This is a time where podcast first sucks as. Well he might. He might get this his right now. No get out of here data right now. He's so good that he barely played in the playoffs because they were like. We're worried where when by too many points. Brad's gotta play. Daniel ties thirty five minutes. Just how it is. There's no time for anybody else to get the real number grant williams also the five in the playoffs anyway. Shooting guard these. I think he's a bowling ball gown. I do think it's kinda apropos and poetic. When might say that like after danny ainge has lusted after every superstar on the market. It's really gonna come down to the players that he drafted the corier tatum brown. It's smart and then the depth that they're going to get is gonna come down to the guys. They drafted recently remember. Langford is also her like air. Naismith might like play significant minutes for this team. He can. he's he's shoot like so unbelievable he's going to. He'll play right away and he'll be good. Yeah justin when you're a small market team. I guess you have to do is there. You go Sasha what we have here again one has stuck out to me and that is number one goes to zach here for his actually very accurate take that danny ainge is trash. Wash so care about us. And then a special commendation to justin. I saying that the celtics can't get any free agents. I feel like we may have been a little tilted in terms of the judging on this particular category. That's talking about go lakers all right. Let's shift to another team in the eastern conference so kevin durant was in front of a microphone which is always always a pleasure. I think this is the first time he was in front of Just the just the media in general since january and so someone asked him of course podcast. Justin come on right now. He's definitely been making the rounds on the podcast scene but he hasn't actually talked to traditional reporters which is like becoming a thing with his team. Where cuyrrying katie. Whenever they talk. It's like questioning whether the media is working for trump or something like that. It's just very outside of just reality. Just worker seizing. The means of production hundred percent right. Viva la revolution justin. This specific news item to discuss here. Is he denied having conversations with harden about coming to the net specifically. He says. I don't know where you're making these stories up. I have an idea where they're making stories up. James harden asked for trading out of houston. And i don't know if anyone would have just made up that he would want to go to brooklyn. He had conversations with katie when they were literally in a gym together in los angeles. But yeah. that's that's a curious one here. Does anyone wanna go here. Sharks you seem chomping at the bit. I really am. What's he gonna say. I'm tampering with other players. Like what shock you. If he said that wasn't actually gets. I feel like i feel like cheech. Marin tin cup right where it's another breakdown from kevin costner. And he's just like one point. He's like i'm tired. I'm just going through the same thing. We did this. What was it two years ago Almost two years ago when ethan strauss reported that hey this silence where katie isn't talk. The media for nine days is weird. There's a lot of talk that he's going to team up with kyrie new york like that's what everyone's talking about and he comes out and says like you just go out there and put your whole opinion into this thing and you're not you know you know denies everything that ethan says. And then like he didn't go to new york. He went to brooklyn right which is by the way in new york like this with cairo. Irving like he. He did this whole thing. So i didn't believe this hard into the nets thing until katie denied. And now i believe that because that seems to be like i. Don't this is tricky. I don't wanna compare katie to trump. Someone like i was talking with a friend the other day. And they're like. I don't know how you like. I don't know what to believe in the news anymore. And i said i've got a pretty good system. Whatever whatever forty-five says you just the opposite is true. So now i feel like with katie. When he talks about when he addresses something the media. Just go the other way. There's probably a lot of truth in that. So is opposite day in the opposite. Yeah by that logic of katie said. Yeah me and james talk all the time he'd be like no that's not happening now like oh james harden to orlando. That's what i would. here's my take. How the he big three was. Just loathed like it was just such a bad experience for lebron but that was actually interesting like because we care so much about lebron and his trials and tribulations let like everyone had interest in him whether it was a positive reaction negative. I don't think anybody's going to care about the nets this year. I just. I just think that in brooklyn doesn't have a built in fan base. You don't have that natural just like gravitation to what the what's going on there and two. I just think that like katie and kyrie or just so just so like everyone is just so put off what they're doing that. I just don't know if there's like a natural interest in anything they're saying doing if anything they're just like actively getting people to not have interested in them. I think they might be the least likable super team. That's ever been formed. That is my take counter. Take i think you're really underestimating like the instagram set of nba fans. Like kyrie is wildly popular. Kevin durant is a all caps problem. And we're going to be reminded of that every tubing's until the end of time and there's just enough so peer think to keep everyone really interested and hanging on every word as to. Oh who'd you know. Which teammate did kyrie irving leave out when he was listening all his most important teammates this week this time. I think this is gonna be a really interesting team. And moreover i think the casual fans who are below our level of like constant. Nba chatter are going to fucking love. This team i think. I think they're going to be all over it. I gotta say. I don't want be real this conversation. I'm going to a little bit as as rob said. There's going to be enough soap to dot. I was trying to think like. Is there a saying that's coming there like some kind of like idiom here and so the i immediately thought there must be saying like there's enough soap to for everyone to be lathered up here. That's what i thought you were going to say it'd because like they kind of made sense in my head and now. I think that that should be a same. I think in burn. I think it should be up here to take. And you know we're all going to be lathering up by the end of this season with all this nets action. I think another interesting but that also might be me wanting them to be interesting like i. I do think that there is a. I think they're interesting. If they're good right away right like like if they're sort of just like kinda middling that won't be anything but if they're disaster if they're good right away then i think either get people who want to hate kevin durant or if they're good right away you'll get like kind of the bandwagon maybe starting to go. Ooh maybe we go to brooklyn this year. If i do think that that could save them and make them interesting. Or you know kyrie irving kevin durant just like hate the rest of their teammates at some point. We'll not deandre jordan. He still like. He's like the patrick patterson of the clippers like he's just gets to be in there because he's with superstars. I think that's what it is. I think collectively rob was saying about level of interest. If you just watch these guys play basketball man. There is so much fun to watch just to listen to them on their podcasts. Or listen to them. Talk is watching. Play basketball the other stuff who cares. Man katie's amazing. Kyri is so much fun to watch. They're gonna be good and be fun to watch the playoffs beyond that. And whatever c. I think they if they are bad. That is the only time that people will care because they were taking the heat compass that further like the heat struggled right out of the gates. Lebron bumps into erik spoelstra. Then we had way more reason to be interested in if they just completely obliterated everybody on their schedule like fourteen an hour. Whatever like then you just don't get winning like did we care about the bucks last year. No like jaanus was incredible asset. You're taking a big mandate here on the weeks. I'm speaking for the people. I'm a man of the people know the world's do you think there's an onus on joe harris to get everyone really nice christmas gifts now like just around the team like he has to win that competition what do you think where do you think joe as shopping. The think he's shopping. Spencer's the exist. One of those balls where you put your hand on it and just like the lightning attached to your fingers like that day. Yeah i wanna get one of this to make those. I'm gonna get one. Carry has twelve of them and he's like nah. I already have this one all right. Any other takes about the nets here. Here's one here's one. Do we think they're going to be good this year. Do we think they're gonna be top of the east good best telling like no. I think that's the box. I think the bucks take the regular season more seriously than everyone else but i think like i think the bucks will be a top five ish team like the nets will be a top five esteem like but at the top of the also loaded like you could tell me any order one through six other than like the bucks being below three and i would believe it. 'cause i like there's a lot the back into these dog shit but the like. The top is super compelling. There's a lot there. Depending on deondraye jordan jared allen and jeff green to play good center minutes all the time and i guess i is on the scene. Jeff green's playoffs. Yeah def green is france. Yup and as we're real ivy on that team and they'll just have the coaching staff is actually grace the nod chris thick chart camis. Let's go around the horn here. I'll say syndicate as healthy. Katie can be what it was before. I love katy he. The texas guy always property regular season or playoff resent Let's say regular season. Who's going to fill out still the bucks still the bucks bucks regular season heat in the playoffs. I can't stop myself from mike. Mixers i get it. I get it no no no. We are flawed. Imperfect people over here drink laid shooter. Man sasha what we hear our our takes a special flame award to zach harper for comparing katie to trump and then who sleep in christ. He's pulled away from the flame wars. I was like a special accommodation. And then i'm gonna give the number one spot to rob for saying that. This team will be very interesting. Because i do think and it was also like that the like non if you like don't work on. Nba that the nets will be like a team that you love because they are crazy. They'll say anything katie's fantastic kyrie's entertaining. So yeah i actually love katie and i was a baby nuts fans fan when it was like the baby nets and i loved that team. So i'm i'm i have high expectations because they got rid of all my favorite people so or or they're never gonna get touches so you know we gotta get some stuff here. We are rob. Thank you rob. Rob's in the lead more her before we take a break here Let's move on to new orleans who had the annual. Stephen adams says something funny. That isn't actually all that funny and everyone acted as if it was funny but outside of that david griffin dropped a little bit of a nugget. Here i guess i n williamson is a three now. This specific quote from griff. He says when we dropped zion. The thing that excited us the most was the position lists nature of his game. We really very much envision. A time resign is going to be playing the three in defending the three. And he's going to be on the handle griff sort of talking like a blogger there which i appreciate. But i don't know what to do with this like here's my take. Your reality is a concept. go further. Well there's there's this big discussion like that. I'm sure rob was about positions basketball. Excuse me also yes. Yes is 'cause i know specifically you were where it was like. Wow it was really interesting because we thought about it like from the traditional norms and like all positions. You don't have to be a five to guard. If i whatever but like here's just like he's a big guy who will probably guard big guys unless he drops like a significant amount of weight. I don't really see him on the wing like he's just as i on. I don't think even applying a number two to three is all that instructive. I have a take playing him. At the three is a way to boost their offense playing at three defensively way to boost our offense because if he's on the perimeter and it doesn't matter really if he's guarding people he gets the league out and they want him to essentially be randy moss on offense right like get out in transition. Go run a go. Route will throw the ball view. You catch it you dunk it like get to the free throw line. I think. I think it's more of a strategy for their offense their defense and also like At the risk of sasha's saying that i compared zion williamson the derrick williams. That's not what i'm doing. But that i do remember a time where derrick williams lost a bunch of way a three. Now it's like it's not really like he's not really a three like he's he's gonna be that for that you already have that position for with kevin love and minnesota the good new series that they don't have an all star playing ahead of zion. He's he's essentially a four. He's going to be a four. And i think. I think position actually matters with new orleans because i don't think they have that free-flowing concept yet until all the young guys are developed will splinter take on the defense friend. Is it actually easier to high desire defensively right now at three versus the four. Like how many how many threes where you need to be defensively to be a really good player in the nba us. I mean just looked lost. Looked like he didn't quite know how to what's that's the other like. Yeah and how many threes are really going to expose him in that way versus. If you're a four your garden a lot of pick and roll action your head you have to be there and help real team's gonna fall apart. Are we really worried about. Diana three for the two nights. A year he plays against lebron basically or kevin de of hiding someone is moving from position to position to hide him on the worst player right so three or four. Are you hiding on defense. I'm worse than justin's reality is concept. Take though that's kind curious if you're getting more into that please. I don't have anything else in that. My my understanding of that is surface level like most things. Well this did speak to grips comments like all due respect to griff but this is like peak general manager bullshit On the big picture in the watch they talk about director bullshit when gareth edwards said that rogue one was apocalypse. Now and like you know. We're going to draw from these incredible influences to make our current pop movies like this is the nba version of that. Is i think a andre drummond was talking yesterday about how him and javale mcgee. And larry nance we're all going to be able to play in the same lineups together. It's like this. This is just what we do at this time of year. Reality is a complete concept construct. It doesn't really matter let's say stuff. Put it out there and see what bounces back. Drummond jeff alphabet a new segment for us. That's a that's a thing that's happening now. We just we buried the lede. You're the funny thing is is that i i was like i don't remember going to the pistons and i had to remind myself that drums on the cab. So that's I'm i'm very locked in for the season to piggyback on. Reality is a concept. I kinda feel like reality is just chucky cheese right like it's it's not like you there. There's stuff to do but none of it actually is real. None of it actually helps you accomplish anything in life like we're just kind of gathering prize tickets and hoping we have enough for here. We go deep rises. Yeah are the four of us. The animatronic chucky cheese band performing onstage. That sounds like hell so probably. Yeah that's specifically which one zion williamson the big one. Hey can i take this. Another level more basketball related level. I think it's way more easy to market yourself as a small forward than it is as a big man. And i wonder how much of the is just perception and specifically perception. Griff selling it desire that. You're not just the big guy. You're actually this multi-positional just monster. Who super athletic in one. Because all we know very little about like what sells merchandise and shoes and all other stuff like for instance is to charge zero point like a super popular but the chalk outline of michael jordan is usually wear shoe companies tend to go. It's why paul george for some reason has his own signature. Shoe is make wings. Who play an exciting style of basketball. Tend to be what people go. After and i guess gone off that like zion last year mostly posted up but aj dookie was more off. Ball cuts pick and roll roles. Kind dribbling little more so that kind of makes sense to is moving offense roll around a bit letting them kinda create. Can you think of a more cathartic video than zion williamson jumping into a ballpit in slow motion. I feel like i would watch a lot. Passive scripture fee for it hundred. What are we just quickly here. What we think about the pelicans next year. Do we have any faith that some of the vets that they brought in really make them in that eighth seed race. Are they taking a step back. They're probably going to play some more young guys here. It seems like they have like six nineteen year old point guards at this point. just remember. it's ten seed race now for the plane game. I honestly keep forgetting that. So thank you. I'm open to the idea that bledsoe atoms is as good as holiday favors now. Not very high on favors also not high on blood side. i've never been bledsoe guy I think holly significantly better. But i i'm open the idea that at least from like a regular season standpoint you get as much out of stephen adams eric bledsoe a combination. Do dare favors giralda. So they might. They might be okay. They might be like really in the mix all here. I think the trouble is. They could have a really good season and still not make that final eight. The west is just that good and especially now that teams like the sons are getting that much better. That's where i worry for them. Especially with you. Know i i will say they are a little deeper than some of these other teams in the west. They do have a little bit more cushioned. But you need on out there for a lot of games. I in if you're gonna make a real run at this thing. I think they have a shot. But they're one of several teams that have a shot unfortunately for them. My my concern is just whether building this team. It's very much zigging and zagging. You would think all you have zay on. Let's bring in shooters they bring in steven adams. Eric bledsoe where's the space. Can i come from. They drafted jackson hayes. It just built him. Rounds i on. That's my concern. Yeah lot of vets on this team too. And i wonder if they have all these young guys that they have to play if stan van gundy who even adams is already admitting he's like an old school type of guy is going to really be like feeding minister nikolos under walker when they're just like they need a win invisible. He's for god. Here's a question sharks. Just based on reason draft scouting cure louis or or alexander walker careless. Legit he's a really good. I'm billion on him. I quietly also. This is a perfect year for lonzo. Like there's a lot of competition for playing time and had contract year too so contract so he's up for a rookie contract extension before i think before right before the season starts on december twenty first. So this there's a lot going on with new orleans. I've always said that the palace intrigue is just as good as any other franchise. If anyone actually cared about this franchise. I've been thinking a lot about chucky cheese over last couple of months. You think when lamelo liangelo alonzo are all hanging out together. At their house they called. The ballpit probably comes over these crashing. The ballpoint. you brought it back around all right. Sasha i've also been thinking about chucky cheese a lot over the past few minutes and that's why i have to give this round to zach for the take that life is a chucky cheese with special recommendation to justin for getting us. There with reality is a concept also. I think it's actually contracts. I'm glad that we desire segment with me. Getting that wrong we can go back in the art over. Don't worry about it contractors at that in there we're gonna take a quick break and we'll come back and talk about a couple more of these news. Items sodas brought to you by gatorade for over fifty years. Gatorade has fueled the best athletes to rise to the occasion during the biggest moments. Like michael jordan. Parenthesis you've seen the duck from the free throw line you've seen the cradle the baby at the dunk contest do seen last shot. Both of them. You know what fueled that. It was gatorade from young athletes. Just starting to turn heads of some of the best athletes to ever play the game. Like the goat. Michael jordan data rates shows. Why they are proven. Fueled the best then now and forever. Nothing beats gatorade. This episode is brought to you by marker soft teams now. There are more ways to be a team with microsoft teams. Bring everyone together in one space and a new virtual room. Collaborate live drawing sharing and building ideas with everyone on the same page. And make sure more of your team is seen and heard would up forty nine people on screen at once. Learn more about the newest team features at microsoft dot com slash teams. It's finally the holiday season in the same songs around repeat mariah carey. Destiny's child as are your holiday decorations. our conversation topics those cheesy holiday cards. consider a pack of heineken. The shakeup your holiday gift a gift. Even the pickiest family members can appreciate. I love heineken. 'cause the bottle looks nice. You can also drink it with anything that stake you like some eminem's popcorn sub salad some sushi. Whatever you want. Heineken works with him and after such a different year one thing remains unchanged. Heineken is the gift that everyone can on. So pick up a pack of holiday heinekens. Or have them delivered straight to your door to date and no matter who the lucky recipients of heineken. Turn out to be. Make sure everyone enjoys responsible. All right a couple more here this one from atlanta which has been doing a lot. I don't know if it's good but they're definitely doing a lot John collins kind of the odd man out here after all their free agency moves says that his agents are working every day to figure out an extension with the hawks. There some light rumor going around that like this seems more probable than we'd expect considering that they now have seven people playing the same position. Just scott danilo gallinari just wanted kong. Wu here's my take. I'll go first here. Collins won't be here in atlanta by the by the start of next season and that this contract is more just to retain an asset than anything else. I mean that part for sure. You can't just give up a guy like that for nothing. That's right yeah. I would trust charges on this. Whole like i understand his productive. I don't think he's bad. But i don't really get john collins thing especially within what they're building or what they need for this team. Maybe it works better on the time they have now like i. I think john collins unless he becomes like a good defender. It's a bad idea to pair him with trae on the defense is definitely what makes it tough. But i'm scanning looking at this team. You draw it out into the future. What will eventually happen with this kind of group of players. Three and four years down the line. I feel like if they do end up trading john collins. It could be the moment we trace back to win. Everything kind of fell apart for the trae young hawks because they've done a marvelous job of kind of getting the pieces. They could win. They had cap space. Especially you know next. Season is going to be a cat. Bonanza for so many teams. I don't think the hawks were going to get in a lot of the best players their so. Use it while you got it which is great. Got a lot of talent. Most of it is veteran. Talent and most of it is kinda pretty good veterans if they trade collins and they don't get really good young player in return. I'm just not sure trading the incredibly productive hyper athletic. Twenty-three-year-old big man who you can pair with trae. Young is going to get you where you need to go. You know you might end up with trae young and a bunch of pretty good role players. Some pretty good veterans. And that's the kind of situation that leads to really good players leaving in free agency. Sometimes i think the part that really amused me as i was saying we signed to be a backup to john collins. Then you go back to the middle of a couple of months ago or like. I'm a veteran. i made a lot of money. I wanna win now. And he decided to take twenty million a year to backup somebody in atlanta. That's the ultimate finessed. Move right there like i'm here for championships but actually i'll go back john liar each like he. He could have gone to the heat at the deadline. But he wouldn't sign an extension or he wouldn't. He wouldn't sign extension that didn't include twenty one twenty two as the season. You like. He wasn't going to do that. It would alex sanchez. and so like they didn't trade for like if he really gave a damn about winning now he wanted to get paid. I get cash out. I'm fine with that When he's such a liar is like yeah. I want to win. It's all it's all about now. One of the sixty million dollars. Just say that. I think this the sneaky storyline with the hawks here is that this is probably going to be the team that decides like young's future in the organization's future in the next five to six years. They made pretty much all of their big moves that they can make in. Like maybe somehow they could pack enough players together and assets and whatever else they have nor to trade for another star. I just don't see how they ever get anyone who is really going to dramatically raise their ceiling otherwise and so we can say they're young trae young is in his third year kim reddish radishes coming along all that but like this is probably going to be their team. I mean that comes down to what you think of cam reddish deondraye and if you think those guys are going to pan out in a way that either makes them super valuable to the hawks or super valuable trade. I'm not quite there yet but by all means if you are. Did you see that camera issues. Like growing still. I believe this is a story on the athletic training. Camp justin. everyone is growing. Everyone is faster. Everyone's in the best shape of their lives like getting taller. He's he's significantly. Taller stuck six nine than he was like six five six six coming into the league. Is it that exaggerated. He wasn't six five. Come into the league. that doesn't seem healthy either. By the way that seems like a like he's become an man. Like that's i i mean i. I don't think the hawks are necessarily going to be good this year. They may be good enough to to sneak in the back. End the east because it sucks. But i get the issues with trae young. I just like he so damn good. Like i don't care that he's a horrible defender like that's for the rest of the team to figure out. You have a offense of talent like that you can live with him being so bad defensively as long as you get everyone else up to speed with that stuff. Like that's where a congress wound the future become so important. That's why you need. John collins become a defendants. Why hundred becomes so important. Like if you can put three really good defenders out there and shooter who hopefully can just play team defense with trae young. I think that he can carry your team deep into the playoffs in the future. I think we. I think we focus a little too much on the negative with him because they're so glaring because the rest. That team was so young. Like they'd like five or six guys twenty one or under right like they like if you put some some veteran depth around him. I just don't think his issue like maybe he doesn't win you a championship sunday. But that the only way we're going to judge trae young deluca connection but he's so damn good. I don't really care about that other stuff. I just want him to be who he is offensively. I love that they have another like initiator on on offense so he doesn't have to do all of that and he can play a little bit more off the ball and then everything else like. That's for that's for those guys to decide and i think that's funny thing to watch. Here is rationed hunter like. How many minutes do they get with the chris done. And here you got. Rondo bugden danilo. That's the part to watch. What the hawks has kim they play. Can they play their two young wings. Big minutes and still get their veterans happy and win games. That's the balance all season. What do we think about the bugden signing there. So do you think he's better off in atlanta where perhaps he has more opportunities or what he'd been better with the bucks maybe better with the bucks that's just a better organization unless jaanus leaves and then he probably don't want like bogged in chris. Milton as you want to combo But i think it's just like he got out of sacramento. That's a win as someone who grew up in sacramento. Getting out of sacramento. A fine place to grow up into have a family and everything guy big lady bird. Fan big lady bird. All the biro for that movie is in the neighborhood. I grew up in seen. Like i watched it in the theater with my parents and my mom like gas when you saw the eldorado savings bank credit union in the bureau because i was like a block from our house. Very big moment watching ladybird. Yeah i mean. I feel like you and greta. The same generation are is the timothy. Shallow make character based originally on signed documents. Where i can answer that question directly. But i would just say. Trust your instincts right. Sasha what do we think here to parse through here. yeah. I liked it I the only thing that really stuck with me. Long term was the like tag team charts. And zack danilo. Gallinari is a liar. Now is a little brain where it's stuck in my brain a little bit so i think i'm gonna go with that but i also liked the trae young doesn't have to worry about like lashes. Not let's burden him with defense chucker. Who doesn't play defense identified yawn well with move on to another point guard. Who chalks doesn't necessarily play defense and also from formerly of the atlanta hawks. Dennis schreuder says he does not want to come off the bench anymore. I he did that in. Okay see and he is ready to. I'll go through. Some specific quotes here from his media. Yesterday i did this off the bench stuff already in two years with okay see i think i try to move forward i think with anthony davis lebron i can be helpful as a starter in the pg position. This is the one i think is the most concerning lebron. Don't have to have to use. The german is missing this up. Ron doesn't have to do so much in his mind. I bring it up. Call us at player. Whatever and put him in position to score. I think him to play off the ball. I mean is. I think great. I think that's the reason why they brought me in. So lebron brought me in. I would say hasn't had a great track record with players who want a freelance and not do things his way and this was my concern about the fair. Originally i think basketball sends and it's great. They have more depth have another creator etc. But it's weird to me that he's making such a firm stands and in particular making such a firm stance that he didn't make an okay. See you think this would have come up in the small market where they weren't winning as much versus the team. That has a chance to win a title on see i would say no. Because he's backing up russell. Westbrook fittings backing up. Chris paul ryan. Okay you're backing pitcher hall of famer in. La is backing up. with alex. caruso and casey p. expenditure hall of famer. I'm sasha okay. Okay i guess technically you'd be backing up lebron because if they wanted to keep the starting lineup from last year should come off the bench. Lebron would play in air quotes point guard. Why wouldn't he start. This is what. I'm confused about this whole conversation like if i'm dennis schroder walking to the situation. He should start and more than that isn't he. The best lakers point guard. Lebron is own category but point guard. Point guard isn't he. The best lakers point guard of like the last twenty years essentially like who's been better money years. Wow i thought let's go back real quick. We got rondo and avery bradley. We got lonzo. Got jordan clarkson. We've got diangelo russel. We had jeremy lin. We got steve blake and jordan farm. Smush parker chris doohan chucky atkins year old. Gary payton issue less off top of your head. This is over kim. So kendall marshall and here and third and thirty seven year old ron harper. The last point guard. I think you could. Argue is better than dennis. Schroder is right now. Supposing he's as good as he was last see is probably like one thousand nine hundred eight. nick van. exel just hasn't been a good team. So i'm i'm within a shooter on this like i really don't see fits pretty well exceleron pretty well next eighty. I want him out there. You wanna staggers minutes. So he gets time with mantras harrell too. But i i really don't see a problem with starting i think the other thing too. So he's in the last year contract making fifteen million dollars a year that starting point guard money if he's six man that's lou williams. That's eight million dollars year. That's a half his salary so no. I'm not doing that anymore. Like i'm up for new contract. Yeah i mean. I think this is where like shooter is like. Hey position lists basketball's bullshit right like we need set positions and lebron really more of a three four. If you ask me like i think be out there as a point guard. I think that dennis shooter starts pushing back against rob. Mahoney was a small part of the position list. Basketball conversation was becoming becoming a bigger and bigger part as this podcast goes on. Yeah i imagine they solve this just by staggering. The minutes like they start him but he gets most of his minutes without lebron the floor like you start them. You finish with them together but most of the time. They're they're separate. that's i'm curious about. Does he finished the game. That's probably the beer defensively. You keep them out there and the conference finals or the nba finals. I don't know about that. He didn't say anything about wanting to finish games city. Ed wanna come off the bench. So i'm like. Yeah i gotta be the starting lineup intro. I gotta see the the the sheets come down over the scoreboard. I wanna see myself. You know dribbling on those sheets then ended the game. You do what you want anybody on their part of the spectacle true. I would definitely want to be on those sheets. I would actually want to just the moves. In order to like pantomime whatever you have to do with the music in the background. Yeah that's what i want. Also say this it's arguably the best intro right up there with the chicago. Bulls like music and all that like that lakers. Intro is arguably the best we've ever seen just because of the the 'cau- yeah. Who else is doing that. That that bullshit like three d. thing on the court that some teams do that's stupid like oh my god. The court dropped where to go. It's still there. I'm not like five years old. That's not gonna work on me. I'm actually partial to the clippers who have just like kinda cheesy pyrotechnics laser lights like. I'm all about that. The clippers drive me crazy with their game ops. Because all they did was i feel like steve bomber bought the team and they said and he went into a meeting like hey. I want to make the game experience better. What like what are some things that give me a list of things that teams do during timeouts during the intros all this stuff and they like all right. Here's the list. I do all of those at all types like. I want all those happening at once at all times. And that's what they do with their game ops. It's so it's like. It's like circus circus in las vegas like that's what it feels like. If i can ask a philosophical question i mean what is your favorite. Pre-game game ops aesthetic. Do you like the dude dribbling in front of a smoky background. Do you like the zoom through the streets of the city guides and flipping over big tires and chains. Like what do you want the miami heat. I just wanna see you. Donnas has lem and like josh. Nick roberts working out in a dungeon i'm partial to stare is more than like basketball movements dislike hands crossed looking like palming the ball and just staring into the camera for way too long men like stairs steps aren't we does go like walks upstairs so just an on your album cover. What did you do for your band. That's probably a better question. I like this has no context whatsoever to listener. Please get please share with the class. What sharks is referring to is that in high school. I was in gob in. And i guess you guys just found this out at like right before gordon. Literally for scrape great style was. It was the name of the band. Brian scholar brainy. Yes all right sasha q. Again a lot to parse through. I think my i mean i don't know whether to demerits or reward is actions like blatant pandering what i mean. It's like getting on here and being like the clippers suck and like. Oh i've said that for a while bullshit so bad. I tend to agree But i think i'm gonna go with robert like why not like why. Why not like. I think people just don't i mean we've always raise their eyebrows when players like go out there and be like you know should start. Yeah i sure without like when they say that and it seems like they're talking independently from the team especially on like a lebron team. Where like that might not work out well for you as a player but i kind of agree with him. I think it's funny that he just went to like a german outlet and did this and like hasn't said this to any like american outlets like that move for foreign players. I'm only giving it to my country's outlets and you guys can just advocate it in a horrible google translation. Hit the google translate and hit. The google translate host to yours is a master of it. Yeah so i guess. I guess i'm going to give it to rob for real. But i appreciate the clippers. Eight so Species favored pandering reward. That's sack is still in the game. If he actually wait. I'll counted up later. I'll counted up later. Remember his lame remote. Yeah chargers commendation and so does just all right. Well we'll tally it up at the end you make you make this work more seven. The christmas day schedule is out. I appreciate it mark. Stein's tweet about this. That spn leaked. It's christmas day schedule. Which was basically his way of saying. That word reported it with a graphic already in hand. the matchups are as following the pelicans versus the heat warriors. The box the nets versus celtics house versus the lakers clippers. Verse the nuggets here. Because i have something. It's not all that spicy but to me putting the mavs against the lakers. This is just the league's attempt to make luca thing in this is where it starts making thing like the really leaning into him being sky insurance guy. he's great. well. I think i think there was. I think there was some discussion about whether it'd be jaanus or luca but i think in last year's postseason it's clear that he plays a much more dynamic way and that's probably gonna sell it for him. Flipped a bottle. He flipped a bottle in a timeout before he hit a game winner like he was just like ricky. Whatever the fuck you're talking about. No one cares. Like i'm just. I'm flipping water bottle. He's thing he's great. He's he's a. They should put him against lebron every night. That should be the seventy two games. Just mavs lakers every night if you want ratings especially if he goes and tries to get lebron to sign a jersey after every game like he did his first against him. Because remember that you'd like just all the horrible like mavs alternate uniforms in history that he's trying to give the wrong sign design society suits that was legendary uniform. That's the best one the thing i was surprised by his. No warriors nets i. That was the obvious. The obvious move canadian stuff against each other. We're getting a jump on jaanus playing against his future team. That's the thing here. I think the christmas day games are kind of a vehicle for tampering. One way or the it's either like sunlight is the best disinfectant. And the best way to keep steph from making is at each other is to put a million cameras on them in hyper analyze everything they do so from the league perspective. That could be good or there's a tiny bit of interaction between two players that becomes a huge a huge story. Line ron thing. Is that a couple of years ago when they were like talking and i got it. Yeah so i think the more you put these kinds of pairings of i mean. Let's get john us against the heat. Let's get janas against the raptors. Like whoever is the free agent is your. Let's get as many national games as possible against a potential destinations. Because it's really good for the nba. Either way. so that's why they're doing zion verses the heat exactly eight years now he can go. You can go to riley's camp and get into shape also. I'm excited for the dnp. Sore knee from from kyrie irving as he does not play against boston celtics. I'm sure that like he's going to set up that game you. There's no way fans whatever right. I think it's a whole principle of like. He doesn't wanna play against boston. He doesn't wanna give them the satisfaction of like. Here's your your of your first looks at this pairing if you go into boston on christmas day and lose that then. It's like this. pr disaster. All the net socking kadian. Kyri are gonna work and everything. I think he's out that game. You think he's just like a celtics. Conscientious objector at this point. Four refused boss games on the celtics are as flat as the earth. That's what i think. He believes he really got gypped here. Raining eastern conference champions they get the first game against the upstart. Pelicans like buying he. As thing i'm i'm in on the heat completely but like we gotta be honest like it's not as sexy national team and i feel like they're kind of in the denver zone here right. Yes we know. You're super gold. You're very successful. Like just be happier on christmas. I like the denver zone zone. That's a that's a useful concept the denver zone. You lose your place. Short then resigned. What do we think is the best match up on the board here. I mean mavs lakers was several of the best regular season games of last season. So it's kinda hard to pick against that. It'd be exciting to see how the clippers collapse against the nuggets on christmas day. Going for that had this. Pandering is ridiculous. Like draws here to win okay out of control. If it's healthy. If the are like healthy outside a clay like actually warriors bucks game could be really fun. Interesting to watch is men against a good team. That could be maybe get. How much is why isn't gonna play. Because i thought it was interesting that kerr basically announced that all the other positions outside of center or set except for senator. And i wouldn't be surprised if like von looney is going to be their starting center for the foreseeable and wiseman comes off the bench. I would say why some it'll start but not close. I guess probably twenty minutes just the shooters. Yeah i like. I like the idea of making wiseman earn. I i get it when you just hand over the keys to a young guy and say hey you know go go learn by trial and error but on a team like the warriors like i like the idea of. You can't beat out kevon looney for minutes like you probably shouldn't be playing so what we did with sasha. We just handed her the keys and let run. She's been killing it much. Like the lakers have killed the rest of the the nba over the last six do. What's your final photo. I am gonna zag number seven and give it to charge for. I can't wait to see wiseman cuts so the final tally. I mean this is a bit jumbled here so We have one for rob for police. State One for zach for slandering danny age. But it's not slander because it's true and then We have one for rob just for being nice to the nets. I guess my notes are ambiguous on this one for a flint and additionally aflame award zach for the k. d. You know. I guess not trump comparison or whatever you want me to say about that. And then one. To zach four chucky cheat life is a chucky cheese stand by the and special combination for Getting us there for reality a construct And then we have charkes zach for danilo gallinari as a liar rob for why shouldn't schreuder start and then charge for wiseman against a good team to tell you i lost track. Their rob has three definitive. Like rob was like he won three. And then zach one to two but then also has to like tag team so maybe it's a tie if we count sort of. Sounds like four to me though. If i've got it it sounds like zach is in the denver zone. If we're being everything the mvp of followups like one of you would say something and it would be like almost super spicy. And then zach way to jump in and say yes sounds like danilo. Gallinari is a liar. Really good at co-opting other people's ideas take cheese. So i'm gonna call it a tie. Take it to chucky cheese I'm hearing that in the take it to church. All right zach. Four we get outta here. We need your justin. Barry your story for the real die hards. Oh yeah so. Just a long time ago worked at espn together. I ran the daily dime live. Chat and justin wasn't editor for the nba section. And you know you see those like this is sportscenter commercials. All these like weird things happening around campus all these random people. I went to bristol for about another draft or something and we were sitting out on the patio somewhere on the campus. Eating lunch thing is right outside the cafeteria. An out of nowhere uconn alum justin barrier gets accosted by the syracuse orange mask. I don't know where it came from. I like i didn't see it coming. All the sudden like his hairs being ruffled as like being pushed. Or something as. He's sitting down to eat a sandwich and the syracuse orange out of nowhere like i did. He know that you went to uconn. Like how is that a now. We go back. Yeah the orange yeah. It was the last time the syracuse had any kind of real basketball moments too so that was a very exciting time now. He's pandering to me. love this. I do remember the first time there was a staff meeting. That both zack. And i think it was the first time and there was a basketball game before that. And the first thing i ever said to zach we communicated via email sometimes but we had person which is how internet friendships work and there was someone i didn't know there was like who's that guy and you're like i don't know and we've been friends. Ever since it was it was it. Was we bonded over our inability to To be social in a in a normal construct but we got like bond over like ooh we could go ask that person you introduce ourselves or we could. We could guess love finds a way is how can make us also. I think that was the meeting where we found out tom. Tom photo is tom theban. Not tom thibodeau. And then to. Which then chris broussard. Let us know that. It's chris broussard. Not crisper sard so you go. There was also a meeting where chris sheridan went around the room and he said something nice about literally everybody but he didn't know everybody in the room and so he skipped a couple of people. Say it yeah. Thank god that was intentional for he knew who you were. That's my advice to anybody. Don't ever start singling anybody out in a group session because then you're going to have to say something about every single person in most of the time you don't know everybody is getting caught up in the air and not knowing where the passes that is exactly All right thank you for joining us. Today actually catches work at the athletic anywhere else sirius. Xm yeah siriusxm mba radio and mad dog sports radio friday nights with Amino and i do an all-sports not just basketball. nate robinson. Jake paul last week and we were wrong. What is what cell. And today's episode is our last. One was sasha intrepid producers. Sasha thank you so much and we wish you well. She's staying on several other podcasts. She's not going anywhere. She's been promoted out of the minor leagues to the made it in the words of steven adams. She's not dying mate. So great accent work today. It's been a ride all right. That's us so the mismatch has a new feed that everyone should check out If you go to spotify are preferred app you can follow and subscribe. Click the link in the episode description as well that will take you there but we wish them well on their journeys on another feed but we will be back next week at the regular time on the regular until soon.

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Monday Gamer:  DEN/HOU; HOU/CHI Trade; UTA/MIL; DAL/LAL; SAS/DET

Dunc'd On Basketball Podcast

57:21 min | 2 years ago

Monday Gamer: DEN/HOU; HOU/CHI Trade; UTA/MIL; DAL/LAL; SAS/DET

"Welcome on Monday gamer been awhile. You had a chance to do this. I think Christmas is the last time and really nice slate of games one that I actually really to that really fascinating. But one that has I think a ton of playoff implications that was Houston beating Denver one twenty five one thirteen Denver stayed in it until about four minutes were left in the first half. And then James harden went off scoring fourteen of seventeen points to end the half and Houston generally led by about ten for the rest of the game. At at that point. I thought the biggest interesting thing though, I know you wanted to talk about this quite a bit was the way the nuggets started off defending James harden, which in fairness is basically how they defend everybody else pick. Right. And I'm happy that this existed as an intellectual exercise, and obviously it's not to say that if Denver did this every time the same result would happen. Every time really what they did in the for vast majority of the first half until this final four minutes was they made James harden passer, they were doubling him pretty regularly. When there was a screen. They would use the discrete guy in hardens guy would both follow him. And then they would bring somebody over to help. And then hope that somebody can recover you go on from there and so hard and only took two shots from the field in the first twenty let's say twenty minutes of this game need in playoff that. But he was only two shots from the field. He got to the free throw line a few times. They always does. And what it led to though was. So like you can think about that in a couple of days. So one is, you know, oh, you're forcing the other rockets be you and especially with Chris Paul out. That is a pretty good gamble. I mean, those guys aren't necessary. Great. But remember, you're not forcing him to beat you and 'isolation. You're forcing them to beat you coming off a pass from James harden who happens to be one of the best passers out of a pick and roll out of a double that we've ever seen something that we've talked about extensively after Christmas game against okay. See the guys just unbelievable. Every pass to the roll man is on time and on targeted now. He has great size. He's got long arms. But he just whether it's looping it. Over guys. Whether it's a quick pocket bounce pass. Whether is PJ Tucker throwing these beautiful on time on target behind the back passes right to him at the top of the key for open and pop threes depends. Just there every time he doesn't turn it over in that situation usually more aggressive pick and roll scheme enforced guys to turn it over in harden is just absolutely unflappable in this situations. He seen every coverage. He rips apart. Then he does part of it is the personnel. You could say, oh, you make the other rockets beat you. But if it's clean cappella catching the ball perfectly on the move where he just has to take one dribble starting at the free throw line against the back line near defense for on three because your center is already way out on the floor. It was your mom reason. Yeah. And I think your mom's a pretty good job. Yeah. I mean, so joe-marie I thought did a decent job being helped guy. There were remember that having to Marcus smart note, have new Isaiah actually a couple years ago with the Celtics when they were trying to double. And then it was just is AM standing under the rim. And he wasn't doing anything is bigger. Than obviously. But it's a similar issue. Capella, I believe it was a career high in points with thirty one. Yes. Thirteen of eighteen field and also five seven from from the free throw line. I don't think he's going to get to the sixty five percent necessary for his bonus. But he's getting closer. You know? He's I think he's over sixty percent now which is good good for him from the following. That is the valley. Yeah. The field. I believe he's significantly better than that. And I thought cappella did a really nice job. I thought that you know, one of the huge things in the early part of the game was hardened doing these drop passing behind the back passes to PJ Tucker standing at the top of the key and PJ checker was just drilling those threes. No hesitation, he ended up seven for lower threes in the first half or in the first quarter for first quarter. Yeah. From through and then he ended in the game seven of eleven every single shot. He took was a three I think he had a couple from the corner later on. But a lot of those were were above the break in the very beginning of the game. And yeah, I thought that something else that bother me about this. And this is a parallel to a criticism. I've had thankfully, we don't have hacker nearly as much in the league in anymore. But. I get frustrated when a team uses an approach and doesn't think about the corresponding moves here. So Denver, no problem whatsoever with them if they want to try this, you know, attacking system as you said, it's what they normally do if you're basically going to double James harden every time there's a screen, and you're playing the Houston Rockets, you don't need to have to worry Craig out there because he's not providing as much value as a one on one defender because he's not one on one defending and Houston, one of their biggest positives as a defensive unit. This was true last year in stressors. Well, is that they are very very good at ignoring non-shooters. And so whenever Tori Craig was on the floor. Houston's like great. We don't have to deal with this guy. And so it made life harder on everybody else. Yokich still had a really nice game me a lot of that was also an offensive rebounds. But he's a monster. You know, Jamal, I think when he was driving to the lane gotten gotten some challenges. And also I thought that it really de-activated one show on Gummer's now heroin Gomez is going to be marginalized in all likelihood win. Will Barton gets back. Whenever the hell that is. But I just thought that if if you're going to go that way, this you might as well, actually, go that way in place somebody who makes your offense thing and Malone didn't really do that combination. So I thought your ideas while especially on post up guys teams really messed this up, right? Where if you're going to double team, why not put more of an offense to put it out there? Because you put this guy. This defense player you're going to double team get the ball out of the guy's hands. So maybe go a little smaller and try to hurt them more on offense rather than you know, going with like your Chris Dudley type of center, you know, even looking at when teams will go against shack, for example. Right. You throw Scott powered or or whatever yo Mark Madsen reason the wolves like, but then you're going to double team anyway. So why are you bothering with sky while you just go with more offense? But I think the reason that doesn't work while the perimeter player is that harden is just so good in eyeso-. And so if you're going to go with a more offensively oriented. Player. I would have liked to have seen them. Try Juancho just to get an idea whether that matchup could work since this is the regular season. But I'm guessing that hard would probably cook Juancho pretty good and Arden might be the greatest perimeter isolationist at least in the regular season that we've seen you'll certainly outside the three point line. I mean, I guess, you know, Michael, Jordan Kobe Bryant might will. But to say about that. But certainly in this day and age harness the best. And so if you don't even need a screen to begin with, you know, and Hartnell just wave it off and go at his guy like you gotta have someone who's at least gonna make hard work a little bit at the very beginning in eyeso-. So that then you do at least forces screen to try to get it better batch. But now you can't execute that double double-teaming trudgy. So I agree with you. I probably would have tried a a more offense of approach than they did a for a number reasons, including the what you're talking about is just helping off the non-shooters will sap was a major problem for them offensively in this one also. But I think that's the reason why they didn't do I'm not sure which is the better approach. But there is a reason. To start Craig even if you're picking role defense is going to be more aggressive as there is a reason. And I also have liked to see them trying to leak Beasley just to see, you know, again, you don't have many opportunities to face James harden. There are no other facsimiles of James harden. So you might as well get the information while you have it. And there's a very distinct chance that these teams play in the postseason in whatever round that ends up being. But yeah, I wanted to mention so the offensive rating when Tori Craig was on the floor ninety point nine and remember he's playing an overwhelming proportion of his minutes with yoga because you know, when guys start each half, the the midst are playing a lot together. And that's you know, it affects me said, I just said, you know, Millsaps was lower than like a lot of bench units, obviously. But you know, it was still better than two regrets. And yeah, I I think that Denver will have to just kind of tweak this, and there are no good solutions. With James harden? That's part of why he's a special player, especially when you do not have a lot of different guys. You can throw at him that you think can at least slow them down a little bit. But something and I've. Mentioned this before. But it's going to be a very big point for me as we move into the playoffs. But now that it looks like Houston is going to be relevant again this year in the playoffs is I think teams need to work a lot harder to to deny James are in the ball. You know, especially if he gives it up at some point because that wasn't as much of a problem in this game because the other guys were doing so well, but Hardin leg his former teammate Kevin Durant, and like his former teammate Russell Westbrook. They're not great at just fighting through stuff after that point they activate deactivate, and I just want to especially if you're committing to forcing James harden to give the ball. I would like to see teams work a little bit harder to make sure you never get back the grid. He is a smart cutter of probably more. So than those other two guys you mentioned, but I agree me, especially when he's out high on the floor is making them work harder Ford it and just trying to wear him down. I mean, I do think you can say about hardened to him in the nuggets. Did switch up the pick and roll covers to some degree. They switched more. They left the Millsap bottom of than they went back to more double teaming again that even towards the end of the. Game. They just went with the straight up double before even screen had occurred. They just brought another primitive player to go to double harden and making give it up into mic success with that Tucker hit a clinching three off of that. But there are also some possessions that didn't look good for the rockets of. But to me, I'm not it's concerned about the Denver defense. I mean relative expectations because I didn't think that they were going to be particularly effective against Houston. We knew that there were going to be trying this. I mean, I I would like them to do a little bit better considering that Gordon and Paul or both out at this point. But you know, they got a little unlucky from three mean, they gave up forty seven three point attempts. But Gerald green was six out of ten. He was hitting some ridiculous shots chucker was seven for eleven A. So those are the two guys that really killed him. So it's really more of a concern to me on offense. And you mentioned that Houston is one of the best that we seem PJ Tucker guarding Paul Millsap and the dunker spot. He'd just blew up after the first quarter when Yokich at eleven points in a lot of that was up off. Ruins it five off as rebounds dig really made his life miserable. He had twenty four points, but he had eight turnovers in this game and only four assists. And so they're just able to help deliberately they're not really able to get that D H O cutting game going because Paul Millsap just hanging out on the baseline in PJ. Tucker is gonna come over and help. And then whoever's guarded Craig a lot of times, I was hardened. And while harden is a notoriously lazy defender. He's also a smart defender and his lateness almost makes him help more because he just doesn't want to bother getting out on shooters. He's kinda like if you remember from might have been four or five years ago now that Zach Lowe article about the raptors using programming to try to figure out where guys should stand. It's an oral you guys should help a lot more than they do the ghosts derozen. Right. Here's where the computer says, you should be standing on a given possession while hardened kind of is that and yeah, he can be taken vigil. But he's garden torty, Craig Inverness. I think it was shooting like thirty nine percent over his lasting game to as jumper. Looks a lot better than it has earlier in his career. But the nuggets weren't able to find him and take advantage or you know, just not that aggressive of shooter. Now, the Doug it's will shoot better. They were so Naro twenty nine especially in the first quarter. I thought they missed some wide open ones Juancho was one out of five he's been shooting it, while Beasley was two out of seven Craig was over three. This one six total Murray was over three heads a moment. So seven hundred twenty nine versus twenty two out of forty seven. You could varies. They will. That's just your game right here in the nuggets. At least did pound them on the offense of glass with the thirty two percent, offensive rebounds. But it's a concern. I met accused in does the best job of it. But certainly if they go up against the warriors, for example, used isn't quite going to be the space to me. And that's why it was my hope that they would start wacho at the three get some more spicy. You're you have to play Millsap just because you so good defensively. But you just you can't have to non-shooters out there in a playoff situation, it I don't think so Craig and they've been really successful at won five straight before this dig it Harrison Millsap back into the starting lineup a book. That's part of why may be Craig worked a little bit better because they had watch or the starting lineup instead of Millsap once you get Millsap back in there. It's not gonna work as well. So Craig has been way better than I thought I complained that the two inch money those not the case he's shooting a better this year that amazingly, but he's been more of a threat and his defense. I think is looked batteries athletic finisher as well. Like last year. I thought he blew a lot of labs. He's been actually going up dunking out people this year. So he's been a quality player. But I'm not sure that he should be starting a against some of these really good teams here. A couple of other things from this game. That were notable to me one a couple of those Yokich turnovers came in sequence, I think it was the end of the first and might've been the second on on passes to the interior one was on an outlet. He just threw a bit too far. And then the next one on the next possession down the floor. He's tried to throw. It was interesting. I've never seen a post player thrown interpassed like this. Because one of those were I've heard post players by heart is to catch where it's like a straight line going, basically right at the baseline. And so it was just a little bit too high and ended up going out of bounds. And so. So Yokich got a little bit frustrated. I think he had a foul red run. Then also I cracked up a lot. When Yokich was going was doing it Hardin. And there was a point when they were doing that. 'cause harden was in, you know, little bit of foul trouble. And harden is going to go for the strip every single time is just kind of whether he can time it, right? And I don't recall Hardin ever getting called for fowl. But you could make an argument that Yokich was called for two fouls because of hardened defending him in the post, the I was I think Yokich caught him with an elbow. You know, one of those type of plays without a smaller guy can get a foul call. He threw him out of the way through the last game. And then I think it was like three or four minutes later hardened stripped Yokich in than Yokich got a frustration foul entrance of those types of place. So it was completely logical that Yogesh would go after that. It was completely logical that who get frustrated when it wasn't working as well. But I think that in being kind of important. Yeah. And while you could say there's some hope in in just the three point shooting being different in these games. Tucker. Cappella harden, we're all plus twenty or better, and it was really. Only the benches Monte Morris at another awesome game with twenty one points on fourteen shooting possessions and five assists is with the benches, but when Gordon and Paul or back that bench advantage. It won't be nearly as large. I'm still very interesting to see what Malone is going to do here. Once we'll Barton comes back as well. And how you're gonna manage the minutes of Hernan Gomez and trade Lyles magic tree Lyles to just be out of the rotation at that point. And then you can play watchos the primary backup for at least give him all those minutes. Beasley played twenty six minutes. Tonight. You know, they went with a lot more bench guys because those guys a award success. So yeah, it's going to be really difficult for milona to manage things. He is not have the greatest record in his career of doing that. I'm a little worried about how all of that is going to go and harden when he had that ridiculous street where he had think ten points over the span of maybe three or four possessions. He hit two threes. He also just broke Jamal Murray's ankles. And then. Got a four point play right afterwards. As Murray desperately tried to recover we'd touch about. This is one of the big question marks going. The last season's playoffs is just is. James harden, step back, three going to go in in the blouse. It went in most of the year last year even in their regular season games against a winning obviously in that crazy game on Thursday night that he won with maybe the shot of the year against the warriors. But it's never really got in for him in the playoffs. Is that going to change this here? It's going to be tired of who knows another thing too. I would say fifteen of hardens eighteenth Google attempts in this game were three pointers and many of them, of course, of the step back Friday six out of fifteen to get to the following for twelve out of fifteen in. So some of those are drives he had fourteen assists. A lot of that occurring on drives as well. But maybe you especially with him getting older, especially with this huge low that is secured, forty minutes again tonight. Maybe you say, hey, we're going to try and make him drive. That's going to be our number one strategy the jazz employed that early in the playoffs, very extreme. And then later on earlier in this season. I thought they did. Good job kind of staying on his hip and saying, hey, you know, we're gonna let you drive, but it's gonna be you're right. And we're just gonna have to rotate that. And we're going to tire you out because you're going to the basket every time instead of double-teaming, you letting you just slice this up with a pass or just kinda dribble. The clock out for fifteen seconds, then shoes step back. It we need. We wanna make you work every offensive possession. I there's going to be said for that. But I mean, we're just not gonna know what James harden. We're going to get in the blouse until it happens. But it's gonna be fascinating. If you make that shot in the playoffs, and you know, the rockets may get one more piece in terms of reinforcements. Maybe they're right there yet they might be. And this game was also another reminder for me of just how tough it is to play against the rockets because of the Denver had this series where they Phalle Houston three point shooters a couple times. And you know, you wanna get up there you really wanna contest. And like there was one on Monte Morris where he just kind of caught I think was Joe Greene cut his foot a little bit. And I was happy to be watching the Denver feed and the announcers were frustrated by but I mean, he was in the landing area. You know, it's the way the the way the game is being called right now. And it's. Tough. I mean, you're you're going to have to be there. But not be there enough to get foul because the Houston guys are very aware of drawing. This vows even without EG in Chris Paul on the four so Denver. You know, that'll be a big adjustment. And they're going to be making the playoffs for the first time. I'm still completely expect them to be a number of excited for but it is going to be different animal. And I'm I'm wondering what that is going to look like before we move on. If you have any other notes that we can do that. But there's also there's also a little bit of news on each of these teams that we could discuss before we transition will will let's since went awhile tease that and we can talk a little bit about stamps dot com. A service that you have used quite extensively with your absolutely. And I mean, we do a lot of more modern business the two of us because we make our lives doing podcast, and that's something that's been hard to explain in. Well, reading a book something that's easy to to talk about people. It's something tangible. They can own their hands that created a lot of challenges for me because I didn't have the infrastructure or know how to really deal with that much hard copy that I need to send places. Friends that wanted copies family all that type stuff and so- stamps dot com, really fit that Bill. Well, they can do so much stuff just through there. I had you know, they scale I was able to print my own shipping stuff, you could schedule pickups if you need to do that as well. And so to avoid all of the headaches that used to come with sending a physical thing from place to place digest, the convenience of being able to do it from home was an absolute godsend. It was great when I was working on that. And I don't need. Thank thankfully. I don't need to do it as much was it, even though stamps dot com. It easier was something I didn't get super good at. But I'm so happy. It was there to make it better. And Simpson come brings all the services of the us postal service right to your computer for nothing lead with you print use postage for any letter any package any smell anywhere. You want to send it in the milk picked it up. So you have to go to the post office. No, more hassles. And you get discounted posted rates that you can't even get at the post office through Sam stock calm, and is a fraction of the cost of one of those. Expensive postage meters as well. No commitment to leave. No long term commitments right now, you can enjoy the stamps com service with a special offer. The includes a four week trial plus postage and a digital scale starts to new year off right with stamps dot com. Click on the microphone at the top of the homepage type in that failure code caps. Space the rockets now have a little bit more while if not gets waste at least a room below the next luxury tax tier as resolve their trade that we're about to talk about here. But don't forget that caps space code by clicking on the micro atop the homepage. Let him know that you came from us at stamps dot com. Enter that cap space coat, I will happen. So it was widely anticipated that a move was going to happen specifically on January seventh at it did Houston trading, Michael Carter Williams standard of doing. So to the Chicago Bulls. And the reason why it was expected as because Michael Carter Williams contract was actually not fully guaranteed for his minimum is only partially guaranteed for one point two million. And that guarantee date is January tenth like everything else said the decision date was January seven. So by trading carter-williams to the bulls. And if you wanna full breakdown of this, I wrote a piece for the athletic the Affleck dot com slash cap space. And basically what happens is by trading him as opposed to cutting him Houston does not have to pay any luxury tax on any of Michael Carter Williams salary. And so that is a savings. Bobby Mark secular at two point six million dollars, which is a ton of money. And they so as a part of it, they did not send any draft pick compensation or players to Chicago Bulls. Instead, they gave the Chicago Bulls. According to wo- JR. One million dollars and so- Chicago had to pay MC w five hundred sorry three hundred sixty six thousand and if they sent them a million that means about six hundred thirty four thousand in profit to the bulls each team can send and receive separately five point two million in deals. This now means that Houston has I believe two point two million left because they already use a fair portion in the owner walk oh deal. So for the bulls, they get some money, you know, that doesn't if they don't get picked or anything like that. And for Houston. They just save a bunch of money. And so that's what makes sense for them. Other rockets news looking like the end of January that they're gonna bring Chris Paul back per Mike din. Tony in that seems like a great idea to just take absolute forever. Now, we were worried when he got hurt again in Miami that while they're gonna just desperately need him back to make the playoffs. But now with this incredible Hardin explosion. That's no longer a concern released. So they can take their time a little bit also getting Austin rivers who didn't have a great game tonight. But his heads nice games. Just at least console Cup some minutes. Please forty minutes tonight. I think it was forty two the other night to so there's not as much of a need to rush Paul back. I mean, he's just a to do everything that they possibly can. And then when he's ready to come back week two more weeks pay Szekely let that thing he'll up because they just cannot afford for him to get another hamstring injury for the bulls under that they also waved a Marshon Brooks to clear the roster spot necessary for that Carter carter-williams trade. And of course. Have already waived carter-williams, which they had to do before five eastern today for Denver. Mike Malone said that he hopes to have will Barton back in the next couple of weeks. It seemed like his return was imminent for some time. At Denver is not exactly open with injuries. And maybe Barton had some kind of a setback. Maybe it just didn't make sense that he was going to be back. This railing did have a surgery on that groin. And so, you know, it seemed like middle of December was a little optimistic for me. Remember he suffered that injury a dingoes in the third game of the season back in October. But it's it's look like it's going to be pretty close to three months here by the time. He's able to return a wells. We got here. Unfortunately for us because the Knicks are playing the warriors on Tuesday Mitchell Robinson suffered a subsequent injury. He tweaked his groin during his ankle rehab. So he's going to be at longer. We haven't heard a time line on it doesn't seem like it's super severe. But just pushes back a little bit. Which is unfortunate. Derrick rose is going to sit on Tuesday. When they play I believe that's Oklahoma City, and then he will return on Friday. And then one that that was really kinda surprising to me just because we hadn't heard anything in a little while every time you get close to the recovery time line on a player. And you haven't heard anything I always kind of try to keep my ear to it Valent Tunis as Ben out the injury was about three weeks ago. I think it was a little bit more than three weeks ago when he dislocated his thumb, and it just came out that he is expected to miss another three to four weeks. So you know, Toronto has been able to to handle in his said, though, I do think the combination of Valentinus in Lowery out while Lowery was out. He has since return was tough for them to handle, you know, that's that's a long time. More to be without one of the parts of their son rotation because huge surprise me at the surgery think four to six weeks was the hope but that some legal during that can take a little bit longer. It's not like the broken hand necessarily would seem like more before two six weeks said it's not a shock to me that it's gonna take that long. Also, they waived Lorenzo Braun with the Toronto well into the tax here of before his contract fully guaranteed. I wonder why it is that they didn't just trade him the same way that they did with Michael Carter Williams, perhaps the reason for that is that they want having agreement in place to bring him back. If he in fact clears waivers in east actually shown some things he's been one of the better defensive guards in the G league during his time with Representative five, and so maybe they just wanted to bring him back on some ten days or some way to to make it cheaper potentially. Whereas if they traded me that team would eventually wanted to keep them, and if they traded him, and then he'd been waived they wouldn't have been able to resign him, obviously under the Jerry Stackhouse rule of tiny. I always think of that is the decision. So gaskets rule. Yup. Yup. I mean, that's another one. But Stackhouse basically said at the time that he was already going to be coming back to Dallas a in wasn't allowed to be brought back Rudy gate still missing time with that left. Wrist injury Spurs. We'll talk about their game against Detroit later on a he's probably gonna miss their next game against cosc-. The. Played two in a row against o'casey coming up here. But they did not miss them at all against Detroit. Washington wave Ron Baker before his contract. Fully guaranteed hundred seventy one thousand dollar cap hit a of the wizards have been playing the twenty fourteen Chicago Bulls luxury tax dance where they go down to thirteen players for as long as they can which do weeks before they have to sign someone else just to lower their tax Bill. He played forty five minutes for the wizards. And he was over four in those forty five minutes and didn't score at all in a perhaps a post mortem on baker's NBA career. He could get another chance because he's kind of a hustler, and you know, there's the has that reputation, shall we say something about him that teams seem to life, but end if this is the end for him in it certainly has been the end of that four year or that four million dollars a year deal with their full room mics after the sign in the summer twenty seventeen in one of the more likely up later. Says been exercise they signed him to that agreed on the first day of free agency. And after he'd had a seven point five PR at age twenty three forty six percent true shooting a N. I mean that the the disastrous time when Steve mills was the sole guy with the next when they did the Hardaway offer sheet. And then they also did that Baker contract of you know, certainly the Phil Jackson period just before that was pretty disastrous as well. But junking him for Steve mills for until Scott Perry came in done a much better job since a Perry came in there much better than Perry did in Sacramento Bentley. But I mean, that's just one of the most ridiculous contracts and Alonzo tree or who has shown a lot more in his rookie year than bit. Ron Baker overdid of they sorta gave him a similar contract that as a free agent, but just because they're worried that, you know, not having any kind of bird rights on him after his first year that they might lose them in restricted free agency. It's just very interesting to me how often bad teams, it seems like they overvalued their own guys more than good teams, do sometimes do you agree with that were just like open were so bad. We just can't afford to lose two to get worse. But. It's like really you need to retain these guys. Got you the twenty five wins last year. Whatever it was. Yeah. I mean that stands in stark relief to San Antonio's approach Jonathan Simmons. Let's say where Jonathan Simmons was rotation player in there. Like, oh, we could find another Jonathan Simmons and toon extent. They've been right Utah. We'll talk about them a little bit. Here. Marvin Bagley did return a little earlier. I think than expected from that left knee bone bruise played twenty minutes a against Orlando as the kings, blew them out or the plume. Sure is off the rose there. And the Sixers their old team is sick Butler and Chandler of miss last two games. But they should be back. Ben Simmons is sick now and then mohawk started on Monday against the Knicks but only played nine minutes, and then did not return to knees. Sort of the the blazers beat the next one eleven one one we can hit the rest of the news late. Let's break it up here and do another gamer where do you want to go next year? I think we should go to the other game that I was excited about the beginning of the night ended up kind of falling by the wayside because of Denver Houston. But Utah Milwaukee was still. Really interesting. I mean, you have these Milwaukee's paint dominance has been a story line of the season that will come up again, when we do our words thing because it was something I fixated on last month and going gets you touch us who just happened to have Rudy Gobert. And so I thought that the match up of these teams and again conference non-conference they only play twice a year. They're only game in Milwaukee. I thought it set the table for something notable in I think, I think generally fit that description. Well, the biggest thing is Utah came out right from the jump with really go. Bayer guarding Yonathan Gupo, and they were not dissuaded by Janas three five three point shooting against the raptors. And the honest was in fact, a over four in this game Janas did it have thirty points. But it took him thirty shots to get their his shot chart in the bucks. Overall was best Jaanus was eleven of nineteen at the rim which actually very poor percentage for him. Remember of I tweeted this out the other day, I may have mentioned on the program, but he's shooting sixty five percent from two coming into the game against the raptors. Dealer day and is a usage of over thirty. There's only I think twelve guys MBA history who over a full season have shot over sixty percent from the field that had over twenty five percent usage. It's like Barkley shack. Very prominent among those seasons and Yoenis has I think you the second or third highest usage among that group and by far the highest two point percentage at that sixty five percent. I mean that is just absolutely insane. So the strategy was we're gonna put either favors or Jay Crowder when he was in on brook Lopez just treat brook Lopez. Like he's a really tall guard, which is essentially what he's been on offense this season. And we're going to guard got us with our center or discovery to go bare stand back under the basket. And I think that's the best way to guard Jaanus over one because he can't physically overwhelm the guys easily though, even go bare like Janas started the game with the up and under dunk dot of. It's incredible three of. Able to do that against you know, the guy was the biggest wingspan NBA history. Basically in one of the best defensive players that we've seen it in a long time. But I think it's more important not only for just being able to stop Yoenis. But also then to be able to maintain your health responsibilities as well. Because when the doesn't have the ball issue becomes a little bit of liability. He's got gravity obviously going to the rim. But it's very clear if you're going to go bearer guard brook Lopez he's just going to be too far away to impact term announced number one. He's got an easier guy to go against to the basket. Number two. It's much harder for there to be helped when other guys drive to the room. So I think this is absolutely the right tragedy. I think that they cause so Monica of difficulty for the bucks. I mean, this is a pretty fast game ended up being a one fourteen one. Oh, two Milwaukee win though, they pulled away late the thirty one points in the fourth quarter up but only twenty five three point attempts for the bucks, which is a great number of for Utah to hold them. Not having the bucks of averaging like forty three points humps a- game. And the only. Got to the foul line. Sixteen times 'em now the bucks did shoot three out of forty five at the rim. But the bucks you or not other than Chris Middleton. I mean, they don't really have anyone who can hit mid ranchers. They were four out of seventeen from Florida range in three out of eleven for millions. I thought the jazz strategy was very good on defense. The bucks did outscore them in the jazz. We're going to have their own difficulties scoring against a good defense. But I like the approach I think basically any team that's got Senator who could move his feet in the slightest museum the nuggets, for example, put Plumlee on Janas like that's gotta be the strategy until Janda's can at least hit a fifteen footer yet. I mean, 'cause if he if you could make the guy come out to fifteen feet that he could blow by him and uses quickness, but if regal is gonna just stand under the rim than in just wait for Janas there that the fact that Janas has quickness advantages on these guys those really matter that to me the team, I mean because you obviously same conference that distractedly makes the most sense for his actually Philly. Because Joel Embiid is such a good rim protector. And also, can you talk about how it can affect you on is also having go bare their if Bledsoe drives if Middleton is gained towards the basket or Balch abroad or anything like that. He is put helluva deterrent as we saw. So that was why you brought up how they really suffered from floater range three out of three out seventeen. I believe was before seventeen that is tough to tough to handle it so makes life harder in this in. So Joel Embiid. I think is interesting. They're just as capable room sector. You're losing so much having him on brook Lopez. And you'd I've talked about the idea of play playing us more guy in Brooke just like I thought the same thing with Ryan Anderson willpower is theoretically more complete offensive player, but he hasn't really done that like I cracked up. There was somebody. I think I don't know if is in the NBA Castro on Twitter worried about Lopez posting that gap, and it's like, they don't do that. That's not that's not what maybe that's a counter that at some point will happen. But I mean Lopez is immensely immensely skilled seven footer. And but that's just not what but is done with him. So far another thing that I thought was really important in this game was Utah's. Point guard injury trouble. Escalating, so Dante Exum is already. He he had previously suffered an ankle sprain. He's gonna be out for a couple of weeks. So they were already short handed then Ricky Rubio scores nine points in the first four and a half minutes. Then he comes out with a right hamstring issue is going to get number Ryan Tuesday. It is not the same hamstring that troubled him last year in the playoffs. Remember how big his absence was in that second round series against the Houston Rockets. So they played hull Netto for twenty nine minutes. I thought to actually played pretty well, you know, overall, especially being kind of thrust into a larger role than expected Natoli good as long as he doesn't make guard. Someone like James harden where he's just gonna get physically overwhelmed like in the regular season ease a of reasonable backup Funke. I mean, he's he's kinda like Jose Calderon white in the fact that he doesn't get a lot of three pointers off. But when he does, you know, he can intimate a preview clip. And you know, he's not good as Coulter on wasn't as prime, certainly. But he's Peschiera defensively. He's a solid Blair. He's a there's definitely. On a good value contract. I was surprised that he didn't get a little more interested in free agency. Agreed. You kinda similar issue for militias Napier who I thought was was capable and got and got underpaid and so- Netto, you know, he stepped up Abeille. I thought they did pretty wellness minutes. But then they just didn't really have any other options. Grayson Allen is also unavailable in. So you put a lot of creation on Don Mitchell shoulders, put kind of the team concept. I mean, obviously Ingles can pass the ball. And all that, but Utah it they just didn't have enough guys that I really trusted with the ball in their hands. And so it will eventually sort itself out. But I thought that was part of what I mean beyond Milwaukee having a very good defense. I mean, often a great defense that it just made life a little bit harder on them to succeed. Even though they went Mutahi went fourteen of thirty seven from threes. And thirty percent is such a number very happy with you and Utah. It's interesting. We've talked before about how the bucks react so strongly to even not even penetration all the way to the rim, but just even penetration to the foul line area and so- Utah doesn't. Have the greatest ball handlers in terms of getting to the rim it and finishing. So their offense in some ways as tailored made to attack this defense because they get some penetration with picking rolls. But they're really trying to drive in kick a lot in the bucks. That's what they give up in general. So Utah was able to get some pretty good looks from three the turn it over more than they would elect to Donovan Mitchell another really head some moments offensively. And I'm very interested to see what it looks like with Rubio being out are they're gonna just essentially make Mitchell the point guard. They're gonna start nettling. They're certainly gonna be some times where he's playing without a point guard is he had to in the playoffs as you're a twenty six points but took twenty four shots to get their only four free throw attempts seven turnovers in two of twelve from two six of twelve from threes. I mean to be inefficient when you go six twelve from three is that's pretty rough. I would say for the bucks a Malcolm brogden had an excellent game. And we talked about how go bear in theory could help against Yoenis while the rest of the box were nineteen out of thirty one. One at the room. I'm sorry. No, that's wrong. They were nineteen out of twenty six at the rim. Great percentage and brogden was a big part of that. I mean, he had twenty one points was only one of one on three. So he was getting those straight line drives through means a cagey finisher with some of those reverse layup, the left-handed running hooks and then Lopez they did a pretty decent job holding him down in terms of his attempts. But he was three or four from downtown and hit a couple of just crazy threes one to ISIS from like at least thirty v. Also at this step back just a one on one move on Crowder going to his right off the dribble. I mean, I still I've said this before, but like group Lopez who used to be one of the absolute most boring players the NBA to me now becoming one of my favorite guys to watch. It's just like one of the upsets the century. I was also really happy to see on maker play. Well, he was eighteen minutes had a couple of a couple of decent defensive plays. Also made a couple of threes in this one was plus five in eighteen minutes, air, sunny, Selva, only played eleven minutes and digit Wilson was unavailable. That's a. Story of of this little stretch of the season for the bucks. And you know, I thought their bench guys deanza was also unavailable sterling Brown played but showing grandmas playing over engines, anyway, interesting more more interesting than me that's for out appears to be playing over pet Coniston right now who has played well at times this year he has. And so yeah, looks like they're at least for the time being we'll see what happens with DJ Wilson, you know, now because Italy Selva the timing of this can be interesting on Ilyasova hill Brown and snow were the only guys came off the bucks bench. And then put Snyder relied on Korver Netto and Crowder and then gave race O'neil little bit of time as well. And so, you know, feels like I don't think, but it has his rotational the way lined up, and of course, both these teams are dealing with injuries. But I enjoyed this game. And sometimes I really try to relish those two times a year matchups because you know, probably not gonna get in the playoffs. And so you just like, okay. These teams of unusual strengths. And this like the the severity of their strengths is part of what made this so interesting for me. I'm very. To see a part of your problem with if you're going to have a go bear or your center guarding Janas is that guy is pretty much taking completely out off of rebounding. Because if he honest gets the rebound in your center went for the offensive rebound, you're screwed. You're just whoever's guarding yacht. Does not that centers not be able to get back. So I think that's probably a good idea against the bucks. Anyway, because you honest is just such a force. You gotta have a big back protecting the rim. Res just gonna get right to the basket and dunk anew. In transition and the jazz are never been a huge offense ruins him. That's been part of go bears game. But they missed a lot in having to get him back on defense, the bucks. A very exciting watch. I saw them in prison as a fan took my wife to see them in November courtesy of seek which guarantees every purchase. Fully the reasons. He KiKi is fantastic. Is they saved me time. And they save me money when I'm looking for tickets. Whether it's sports concerts, comedy theater. Whatever it is. They save me time by aggravating. Ng ticket selling sites together. So I have to go to a bunch of different sites. And then they also save time and money by grading each ticket based on its value compared to its location, and so I can look generally the area wanna sit in look for that big dark. Green dot click on that. By those tickets, I'm done in like ninety second. Whereas I used to get so much foam. Oh with tickets. I just keep looking people. He now I don't do that anymore with seek. If you haven't tried seek again, and they are the inaugural sponsor of the don't podcasts way back in two thousand fifteen. But if you haven't tried them yet, you get ten dollars off your first Iki purchase via the promo code cap space today in the Sikh app, which you can download for free. Of course, that's promo code cap. Space for ten dollars off your first seeking purchase Seekie. Life's. We have the tickets news at cafes code to let them know that you came from us. We can finish up the news in Atlanta miles Plumlee has been in and out of the lineup with knee issues e a second non surgical procedure on his left, knee and will be revalidated in two weeks. A remember John Collins also a non surgical procedure. On his ankles the seem to like that of Plumbly with deadman and Len healthy, not really a part of the rotation. He has not been effective this season. Marcus Morris had that next soreness he returned twenty six minutes against the nets as the the Celtics flew them out at home in Robert Williams. Played four minutes in garbage time. I believe with a groin or returning from a groin issue. What else we got here? New Orleans beat Memphis tonight in in a nice win. They did. So without e I really thought that Justin holiday trade was going to turn them around man of just well, there was just an holiday did produce the time that I want. I watched that game for about five minutes, and it was because not only did they play just nowadays. But drew and just in actually guarding each other, which doesn't happen. Very often. It was pretty fun directionally banked in a three over his older brother, which was pretty exciting. And yeah, I mean, I'll have some big picture thoughts on Memphis in a little bit. And don't wanna spill enough right now. But Justin holiday twelve minutes after playing twenty minutes the other day over threes. I think he is now one for ten as Grizzle did have four points in this game was negative one. But the giving up to second round picks for guy who might play twelve minutes a game for you. Maybe not the best use of asset. Then any backup point guard krizner struggling, so valium. They shove MAC didn't play me. He started that year. So wonderfully to John Carter who is a great defensive player, but man is really struggling on offense Carter shooting. Thirty one percent from the field in twenty four percent from three in the seven games. He has played so far in the regular year. Your brain doesn't work this way. But one for Tennessee was right there for Justin holiday so far. Back to. It's not worth it. Even took me like a second to get it with Tennessee. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. For fred. And I are cursed and Miller OMB and a few other people, and it's almost now employed by the athletic. So our slack conversation periodically gets completely insane. But each one more didn't play with a quad contusion. And fortunately, Nicola miratec is closer returning. He is not back yet. They have really missed him. The New Orleans did win this game on the returning front. Kyle. Kuzma was back in the Lakers win in Dallas. He started and played thirty seven minutes. It I it might just be doto. But it feels like Luke Walton does this all the time of like guy comes back from an absence and he just plays a ton of minutes and Kouzmin was plus eight but he was four of twenty from the field. So I didn't watch much of that game. So I can't say how he looked but still delay. The Lakers need him out there on the floor. He can provide something offensively especially with LeBron James unavailable. I could talk during the game a little bit actually assure about it here of illueca twenty seven points. It took him twenty three shots to get there. Only two assists the Josh heart, especially in the second half. Really did a nice job on him. Especially considering that heart played forty four minutes in this game. An Casey peel twenty one. I mean heart is a pretty good player. He was doing a really nice job in Lucas got a little more strength, though. He's a good matchup. For Luca did a really nice job denying the vault. But Casey peas, but playing really well, he's a capable backup. You don't play. Josh forty four minutes that seems pretty insane. But illegals did really need this one. Lonzo was excellent. Although he was one of four from the fallen, it's ugly. Mrs therapy, a deep three four eight from three but even for him to go four of seven from two. It is pretty good in it twenty points. Those I think his second best effort the season than Brandon Ingram as the Lakers. Hunted. Luca a little bit late. He was twelve out of twenty one twenty nine points but zero zero from the three point line. So it's very clear that you know, when he has the ball in his hands, and he has a Thiessen matchup, and he can get to the rim. This isn't a grim protecting Dallas team. That he could be effective there. I thought he did a nice job of being strenuous something that he's really improved at is going strong at to the basket in his career. Even Mike Beasley thirteen points in nine minutes for the Lakers that had some nice drives a going to his right at Dallas. They're starting lineup is really struggled recur heads quotes up to the game that there may be reevaluate that their starting lineup as a ninety seven offensive rating the bench which has gotten so much for being so good. I haven't looked their numbers lately. But you know, just anecdotally looking action to, but it seems like every time I look at their box who are recently the bench isn't killing people throughout the war. And this is a very thin Lakers seem to think they would have done. Really? Well. So maybe there's some thought now that Dennis Smith could be staggered from Luca think they should try to give that a shot than the thing killing them. I think is that Mexico's better than Dirk Nowitzki and a Cleveland got five minutes in this one Dirk played thirteen I cleave as actually better than Dwight Powell is. Well, so I I'm a Rick doesn't really have the option to not play Dirk. That's just not going to happen. But it's it's still not ideal. I think maybe the fact that Dirk is playing as part of why the bench unit has managed to jerk. I think it was like oh for ten or something in Boston. When in his finale there the cross actually like rooting for him to score of. I think that's about all I've got on this one. Oh, sandra. Jordan challenge to jump shot of for the first time this season, those those well, the you brought up the Cleveland thing. And I there this is the other thing that riccar allows not gonna do I would love to see how clean fits with deterrent starters for a little bit of time. Just because that isn't we did. And it was great. A when when he started directly had one of the struck me if I just I just want a little bit more of a sample of that. Because I mean, that might be the general I mean contours we don't know what Harrison Barnes is going to do with his option or Wes Matthews is an unrestricted free agent. So he could do whatever the hell he wants. But that general concept of Luca more of a stretchy for Cleveland, the five be that would be a really good piece of data for them to have. And if they don't need to spend on a center that has a few big big ripple effects for the summer of twenty nineteen not saying the Dallas is that's the decision. They're going to get to or anything like that. But that's something that I would like to see for them the rest of the year kind of connecting. Did you mentioned Joe hairs? You talked about the Boston guys. Did you mentioned Joe Hera note? No, yeah. He's some time with the sprinkle vs. We'll be back a on Wednesday. But Kevin love still giving interview. And this is real big here for trade season. He says he's still weeks away from a return, Andy. Hasn't really started doing anything on court pushing off that surgically repaired toe. So it sounds to me like he's he's gonna play like one game or two games before the trade deadline, if that, you know, this is one of those ones where the trade deadline being three weeks earlier, I think is gonna matter. But I mean, if you wanna trade for Kevin love like how can you do that unless it's just like kind of a bogus type a tank trae? But he still four years left on his contract to this one for one hundred thirty million dollars. So you can't make that type of investment without seeing him back on the court. The just I mean, there's no other contract that's bad enough that you could send back to Cleveland to take on that risk of another four years at thirty million a year. So I mean, I guess this just means that Love's gonna stay on the Cavs. Unless some team is really just like that in every even that they're willing to take that kind of risk. But I mean that is that is really really finger titan. Or if you're an opposing jammed a trade for when you haven't even seen him back on floria Ken love is now I think he's thirty. So Sal, you're sitting there going, oh, he's gonna bounce back easy young guy. And. He's been dealing with health issues various maladies over over the long time. Also Cleveland is still without David and WADA their best defender in my opinion, probably in most people's opinions, and he's still got a week away. So we'll see what's happening there, Shaun Livingston left. The win over the kings with sore knee. He will not play against the next sounds like it's maybe more precautionary than something serious. But you know, the warriors do that from time to time and then the aforementioned Cavaliers will play Indiana on Tuesday and Indian might be without Darren collison miles Turner inquiry Joseph because all three of them are listed as questionable. I still think. The Pacers are heavy favorites in that game. But we'll see what of that group. Extra plays. Maybe it'll be an air. Nala game holiday has been impressive at times in limited minutes. What's about a San Antonio in Detroit here to start can I start with the shot here because this is just it's just so perfect like for for us. Okay. Sin. Antonio took fifteen shots in the restricted area. Fifteen shots from Florida range twenty. Nine mid Rangers and twenty three pointers so the shot distribution there. And they also got to the free throw line thirty two times, which is of course with bench take. But it's just such a spur shark think about that shot distribution nego. Oh, yeah. But they scored one hundred scored one hundred eighteen points in one by one by twelve and this was an incredibly slow game. So they put up a one twenty eight offensive rating on the pistons tomorrow Rosen twenty six points us, one of the less fishes for also at nine assists and two steals in two blocks. We don't see too often from derozen. Lamarcus Aldridge was unstoppable. He's been playing just incredible basketball since the that miserable first month or so of the season. He had twenty five points only sixteen shooting possessions to get there. I mean, the pistons just had nobody who guard him poor Blake Griffin against the jazz using credible using credible tonight as well. Thirty four points in thirty seven minutes, very efficient hit a ridiculous step back on. Yaacob Pertile in the corner for three and the Spurs didn't really have anyone who could handle him other than Aldridge who who is. Okay. But Pertile it was jumping too much out of the three point line of the Pergola has been pretty solid this year at some great productivity plays in this game. Dirk white some of that. We haven't talked about enough on this program when he came back from that player faster injury. He looked pretty slow, and he was looking like he might be kind of a blown draft pick up, but he's just been going absolutely nuts lately. In the starting lineup. Thirty five minutes in this game. He came into this game during twenty points over his last three shooting eighty three percent from the field and his seventeen points in. This was a a miserable four of seven compared to how he'd been shooting Philby as nine and nine from the foul line and defensively. I thought he looked just like a lot of speed in White's game. And he he didn't do anything from three in the twenty for one. But just I thought his crossover created a lot of separation is floater looked really good. And she's an impressive game for him. Defensively us moving his feet extremely well on the perimeter of. But really again, it was the Spurs bench. That went crazy as well. Patty, mills marabella, Nellie and Davenport, tons those guys really space the four kind of get to a little bit of that old Spurs style back in twenty fourteen. Those guys have been around for a while here in pop system, they get the ball moving little bit more than the starters who rely on kind of more the 'isolation, est Aldridge and derozen. So in this Spurs is completely overwhelmed. The pistons with a twenty three to two run that spanned the end of the first began the second the pistons. That's where they lost the game sfjazz while they put put thirty one points in a back toback first quarters in just end up getting worked to start the second tries to a little bit different where if they're gonna put John Lura out there. They always had him with Drummond or with Blake Griffin Drummond actually started the second to because they just got so sliced up, but when? Moore was playing Figaro defense as the center in that game against Utah. Lure looked a little bit better offense flee at ten points. But man, he is really a struggle for him defensively interested this pistons team, I'm not sure what else to say about them other than just like Blake Griffin is having a wonderful year. They just don't have anything that's made eight assists in this game. No one else on the team had more than three. Yeah. I mean there were there were moments when it because this was the first game of the night. I was I was watching him just sitting there going like what the hell also they supposed to Ed. They're starting not that. He's I like Bruce barren a lot. But they're they're starting Bruce Brown. He took five shots in thirty four minutes. Reggie jackson. You know? He he's I don't know. I've always I've always been kind of freshener within one thing. I thought was was hilarious. What will real quick on Jackson, certainly since you mentioned him? I think that's an underrated factor in where things have gone wrong for the pistons. He got some fringe also consideration granted those in the east and granted that consideration wasn't really very legitimate. But back in two thousand sixteen and then he's really the last two years were. Ruined by injury. And then this year, you'll he's just not the same guy anymore gain the basket, not the same athlete. I mean, it used to be really he Drummond were a devastating pick and roll combo. And now Jackson is just a guy out there. I mean, he's still better than Jose Calderon who is negative eighteen tonight. He may not be better than Smith. So, but I think that's you know, when looked like the pistons could be on the rise a little bit. I think that's kind of under discussed factor not really on the rise. But you know, at least to being a consistent playoff team. It's under discuss factor like that his health really kind of a visceral his growth as a player. Yeah. And that's a shame. We'll see how Detroit handles that over the next couple of years. It will be a I I would say it'll be an important design priority for them to do especially because they have a couple options to we'll see how those workout. But that that they can try to get a another guard that they're happy with and so we'll see that moving forward. But the other thing that cracked me up in this game. San Antonio starting five took a total of eight three pointers in this game and seven of those eight were taken by. And Forbes is just such a great reflection of what this team is. And they we we'll talk about this in a couple of different elements over the next week or so, but they're offensive success since like, December first is just absolutely fascinating. I also think the pistons a I would like to see them space. John Lura out a little bit warm easily is operate on three pointers this year AGA's in his Detroit career, you know, he's under thirty percent from Dante. But the idea is that he could be stretch center at it give these guys more room to operate in these been operating more inside narc. And he's you know, he's not really that good at that. So and I'm just I mean, remember Lou missed all last year. So he's making ten million this year in ten million next year or or over that might even be eleven in another nice gift to the standing Gundy era in the summer of twenty sixteen. But yet he is not really gonna be equality backup center in like we talked about the business. They just don't have the depth. The're in really any kind of high level talent to me outside of Blake Griffin. Andre Drummond kinda he's got some big strengths on the offense of glass and stuff. But he's he's to me is not like a real difference banker one of the things I wanted to mention I- looted this before that is difficult of January. Seventh is the players that were on non guaranteed contracts that made it through five PM eastern are now fully guaranteed for this year. So that's a really nice step for some of these guys. Kenneth williams. Offensive McKinney, Quincy pond, Dexter argentino in shack Harrison in Chicago. And they're they're numerous other guys. But you know, we like to focus on the stars and everything, but for a lot of those guys either took a began Bill or they made it off off off the fringe of of a roster, and this is big money for them. Yeah. Congratulates those guys for making not actually as many cuts as usual. It seemed like I think they're only like four or five a couple more notes on this game here real quick sorry for the non sequitur pop did go for his patented column media timeout and take out angrily approach. When they screwed up an AT. Oh and gave up a pick six Drummond. He took out Aldridge it and derozen and didn't come back to them until later on ended up not mattering at all. But a pouch assault. Didn't look great in his return from that foot injury load is good to see him back. He truly just like not strong enough to post up against anyone anymore. It's kinda sad to see for a guy who is one of the more artful post players in the NBA for a long time. He even at a post up against the Bruce Brown in like ended up going to fadeaway jumper like couldn't even back him down Brown as look good as a hard right hand driver. They've done some nice stuff to just get him. The ball of flying out of the corner on some TA Joe's and get some points for him there. But that's really about all these capable of doing at this point offensively defensively as interesting I would have thought that they would start Brown is a reputation as a defensive specialists under Rosen. Instead, they went there with Reggie Bullock with did. Oh, K A under oath, but they actually went after Bron tried to have him screen of his been screened for Drobny get the switch and drove actually. Brought a couple of times I thought that was interesting in Jerusalem is not even the size like some of the beer wings. Louise, very strong and has a higher lease. But I thought that was interesting that Braun didn't look like he could handle him in the coaching staff. Didn't even try him really on DeRosa as the primary match. So I think that's about all I got on this game. Yeah. I would've liked to have seen Brown on tourism as well. Yeah. Well, I mean, I we saw it a little bit. And it didn't really work. So I I was I thought that was eliminating Shaw. You know that maybe he's just not that good at that. But yeah, I would've liked to have seen it more than two possessions. But the two that we did see Trojan cooked them pretty badly a took him right to the basket with his size. I think we're done here. We'll be back tomorrow night fifteen in sixty mill bag. Finally, we will do it. So we'll talk to you all then have a wonderful day.

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Season Predictions: Wins for All 30 Teams, Awards, and More

Dunc'd On Basketball Podcast

1:08:17 hr | 2 years ago

Season Predictions: Wins for All 30 Teams, Awards, and More

"Chocolate milk provides really recovery backed by real science. So you can put in the real work. Research shows that drinking low fat chocolate milk after a strenuous workout is a nutritious way to refill your body and build lean muscle. That's 'cause low fat chocolate. Milk has the right mix of protein and carbs that your body needs and provides fluids and electrolytes to replenish what you lose in swat see the real science at built with chocolate milk dot com. That's built with chocolate milk dot com. Well, then it's time for the episode that's gonna make us look like idiots. Our predictions for the season. I think this is the one where we have some of the biggest MRs annually as you really have to go out limb for like six bad and most improved. So we're going to do all of our awards and we're gonna pick win totals for every single team conference finals finals. A few other categories that we invented as well how you feeling about your predictions this year, any, you know, like I, I understand at this point that you're going to get. Things wrong, and it's going to feel dumb like that's just a part of this, but I do feel pretty good about the process that led to everything. And one thing mention because I you did more win predictions than I did in terms of the overall scope of four, this exercise. And when I just rolled out my predictions, I was thirty two wins over the like, you know, splitting up the league and I ended up paring that down all the way to ten over. And then at that point, I just felt uncomfortable with making those final cuts and I'm gonna get some things wrong anyway. So it's not like I'm trying for perfect like perfect bracket equivalent, but I feel pretty good about the process. I know get things wrong, and I'm at this point, you know, like I've done so much season preview stuff both here and for real Jim radio and for writing for the athletic that I'm just ready for this to actually start. So while I'm sure people will go back and plays it, things like this. I'm just ready to see actual game. So whether that makes us right or wrong. I I'm ready. Interesting. I was at twelve thirty nine so it was twelve hundred and thirty winds available through. That's nine wins. Hire and those most of the teams that I made a judgment stoop compared to the predictions on the pod were downward adjustments, like the Spurs, for example, due to injury the thunder due to injury. But I, I think I only adjusted one or two teams up and still I, I was a little high end. We're not that far away from some of these over unders and I, I haven't added up all of the over unders, but I'm guessing the over unders or probably, you know, ten wins high on the season. I think that's part of the reason for that. Maybe just because of disaster potential for those teams, right? Like even if you're median outcome is going to be relatively high. There always some teams that are just gonna experienced catastrophic injuries and just suck like Memphis last year. They're just going to be fifteen winds below where you expect, and it seems like they're more teams like that than teams that really can exceed expectations in part because these lines are generally higher end because we just don't. It's impossible to price in. No, which of these teams is going. Experience the catastrophic injury and just be like so far below expectations, like for example, last year, and it's also it's also hard to price in tanking. She likes. So for example, like let's say, I have the Atlanta Hawks as twenty five win team. Well, a lot of teams that are twenty five win teams win twenty three or twenty two. And so that can tack on a couple as well as the tanking won't be as severe this year. Probably at the very bottom due to the reform in the lottery. But generally speaking, I've talked about this before teams don't usually win in the low thirties because they usually fall off or the go little higher and try to make playoffs. We'll lussier was certainly an example that maybe the most extreme that we've ever had. So let's get started with the Western Conference. I will begin to give you my top four here at Golden State still winning the conference with sixty. I don't feel good about their preseason at all. I don't feel good about their Senator rotation as they're gonna be playing a lot of Damian Jones it, and it seemed very Steve Kerr to start Jones. Even though maybe he's doing that again. So Casey 'cause they have a big strong center, but clearly looney and belts me or superior players and Jones has really struggled on defense to me in the preseason offensively. He's okay. You know, you can get up for some jobs, but he's still not just the fluid finisher that drill McGee was the tomb as often being compared to end. Then just the overall motivation seems down dream on greens could be on a minutes limit to start the season tonight. Great. Either it sounds like the the nagging injuries are starting to catch up to him a little bit now, but there's just too much talent here as I have said in preseason, at least for them, Steph, curry, and Klay Thompson look awesome. And so I think as long as Steph curry is healthy for enough of the season, it's hard to see them falling below sixty remembering in fact that they're forty in ten with stuff last year it you wanna react any of that before I go on, I have to wear your sixty as well. Similar logic also integrating, DeMarcus cousins will be a big challenge. Because he he's a entirely different player than the guys they've had at that position. And also his weaknesses can come pound their regular season. Weaknesses. I'm thinking specifically here about transition defense and sometimes their lack of alacrity running their defensive rotations. They don't play with that frenzied energy very often defensively now in the regular season because there isn't really a point. So all of that Mike concerns about their perimeter rotation because if guys get hurt, they don't have anybody to replace them right now in cau- McKinney is, oh, it'd be yeah, the the should've mentioned that their backup wings situation just sucks right now. It's real. It's really, and that's also Livingston her probably not replay that much in the regular. Right? And because those are really hard to find replacements. So like let's say, Gerard co has a bad year. They don't really have any clear cut. There aren't just players of eligible on the wing that they can plug in there like the the replacement player at a six foot, eight guy is incredibly low compared to like us seven footer or. A six, two guy. So that's a concern for them, but they're still so ludicrously talented. I mean, the way I phrased this before as if the words are healthy, they're the favorites in basically every game they play. So if they're healthy reasonable portion and time that leads to sixty, do you want to keep going with your list? And then I'll go out while you do a few here. Okay. So my next kind of pack is Houston in Utah. I think Houston, just their offense of talent is ridiculous. Even if they take a step back defensively, they'll just feed a bunch of teams. So I have them at fifty six, I have, you taught fifty five. So just behind them, Utah has the combination of a elite defense and homecourt advantage to elevations. So I think they will travel will with their defense and they'll beat teams at home because the really good. So the little bit below I could see that going, neither order. There's an outside outside shot. If the warriors or down that Utah ends up with the best record in the less to me, I don't expect it, but I wanted knowledge the possibility. And then I have another batch of four, but I'll just say the team that's at the top of it, which for right now is Denver, I believe, one hundred percent in their offense and their defense, I think will be a little bit. Better this year. Hopefully they get more Paul Millsap did they looked a lot better defensively when he was out there. Also, I think a couple of their younger players like Jamal Murray will take steps up this year. They don't really have a lot of age related regression on this team, so I'm putting them a little higher than last year and also the other big thing that helped Denver for me was a couple of the other teams in this area taking a step back. Okay. So he's going to be without Roberson for longer? We don't know about Russell Westbrook and then of course would have with the Spurs. I have Houston in the same to your as Golden State still above everyone else. Fifty nine wins, and I think it's pretty close to a toss up who's going to get the number one seed here, though. I do like Golden State more in the last one more thing about Golden State to while it is preseason Kevin Durant looks like he is just completely checked out defensively so far. He's another kind of pain point for them in the regular season when when he doesn't try on defense, I've got Utah almost in a tier by themselves here. Although you imagine that one of these teams below them Willie. Merge to join them. I've got them for fifty, two wins, but like you. I see plenty of upside there for them as one I could see them joining in that Golden State Houston group if they're down a little bit. But fourth actually have the Lakers at forty eight despite all their flaws, which we've repeated ad nauseam. They still do have LeBron James given their personnel. I like what I've seen for them in preseason just how crazy they're pushing the ball except for the fact that they're not taking any three. That's a little bit of an issue, but they have such good personnel for running that. I think they can just run enough teams off the floor each night at end. We'll see whether defenses I, if you had to pick here for me, do they have more potential to be below this or about this? I would probably say below this because I'm just not sold in their defense and the lack of shooting up, but there's just there's still a lot of talent on this team. And then I've got a basically a have a bunch of other teams in this tier to reducing by one win. Much the whole way down. So get Denver at forty, seven, and I could see all these teams finishing and basically any or Denver at forty, seven. Unlike a lot of people, I'm not as sold on Denver's upside this year because I just don't think they're gonna defend well enough to really win consistently and take care of the bed teams, right? I just don't see Denver being take care of business type Petit more. It's like, you know, we're gonna win this game against Phoenix by fifteen every night. Ios because they just defense could fall apart any night, New Orleans. Forty, six. Okay. See pick them for forty seven before the season lowering them to forty five. Now, because of the Westbrook injury doesn't look legal quite be ready for opening night that he may not be a totally under percents is gonna turn thirty this year already took a step back last year. So both of Jones's performance coming off the injury and the fact that he may miss some games may miss him gains for maintenance as well than the Roberson injury. While I think he's an overrated player overall, they just have absolutely nothing on the William and they're going to be starting. One of turns Ferguson Hamadu Diaz. Hello, Alex Brenes in disguise who are not even proven and be rotation players, much less starters for large portions of the season now. And I've got Portland at forty four. I would say that's the last team. I feel pretty confident about it so that that gets us down to the eighth seed. Their by teams aren't gonna leaving out of that the clippers San Antonio in Minnesota. But again, the those teams, I think could get up there, but I just don't see them having quite as much talent Minnesota does. But the teams above the most seemed like just sell more solid teams than a those below them. But we can talk more about those teams at go ahead with yours as well here. So I had Denver at the top of this year, but they're absolutely in it. I've them at forty, nine New Orleans at forty eight. I really like a lot of the elements of this team. Anthony Davis playing more at center, I think is going to help a lot. And I worry a little bit about their perimeter rotation, but I still like they're telling what I have the Lakers at forty six. There will be some adjustment periods with them. I think that's really what this is. They are just as good to me as Denver in New Orleans. Just have the modal lower because they have more to do during the season and originally Oklahoma City I had, I think it probably had them at or near the top of this group, but I moved them down to forty five, the Lakers of forty. Six. Okay. See at forty five. Then I have a little bit of a gap for Portland for too, but I still have them in this year. I just went to lower with their projection. They've been so insanely healthy with their star players. The last couple of years that I think of them were as a forty, three forty, four win team. But if they take a step back, they were one of the that knocked down when it had to cut off some wins, and that's the end of my ear. So that's number a Portland. The mohawk was situations very concerning to me, we saw the without him healthy. They really struggled in the playoffs. They struggled towards the end of last year's while the Lillard was also hurt a remember. They had like a pretty darn good lead for the third seed. You know with like maybe two weeks ago and they almost lost that lead the with Utah coming on. So strong, but also because they played pretty poorly done that is concerning your might actually think about lowering them one, but I'll stick with the forty four. I'm still a believer in those guys, but so so Portland is that your six year eighth seed also, then that's that's my eight. Yeah, ten worked Orleans a Laker. Six. Okay. See step in Portland. Eight mean I had San Antonio over Portland before Dijana Mary on her like that. I think some of the things that happen even does out where we read like in Minnesota. I had I had Minnesota. I think you had them higher than I did, but we always had them Bobby, Jimmy Butler drama. I had Minnesota forty, eight wins, and I've lowered them all the way down to forty nine. I just don't know what to make of this idea that he's gonna play now, like as you get to actually play hard, is it really going to work like I have to trade him in season and if they trade him in season, then you have all of that adjustment type stuff off. Also the fact that you almost always never get full value back and also. So if they whether they do trading where they don't, this team has amazing disaster potential because it could just fall apart a bunch of different ways. And also they're not as resilient to injury like they just they Tibbs runs his main guys hard and they don't have a lot of cable replaces. I think about if injure Wiggins who's been remarkably durable throughout his career lick, let's say, and Wiggins is they're probably their fifth best starter for best starter. If he misses fifteen twenty games, they don't have anybody else to step in there. They're gonna play wall day like, where are they going to do? That's a, that's a swimming with them as well. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think so. I'm not willing to bet on those guys with everything that's going on there. And yeah, they might get something back for Jimmy Butler. You imagine they will. You know, he supposedly met with Glenn Taylor yesterday at practice for practice without incident in Taylor said, hey, you know, just play hard, be a good company man, and we'll still try to honor your trade request of known and we'll see whether that happens or not. But a yet if whoever they get back for Jimmy Butler this team, I mean. Damn right. When he's talking shit to Scotland, that disease has never been good unless Jimmy Butler has been in the lineup. And so even if you get back Josh Richardson and he'll certainly help them. But you know, he's no Jimmy Butler. So I even offensively to they have so many structural limitations with the lack of shooting in the lack of creativity on offense that you're without a Butler there. You know, they don't really squirrel that will don't think either. So an certainly don't stop anybody, but getting back to the predictions, we don't do quite as long as those teams. Obviously that's what the season preview positive before clippers at forty two. I am higher on them than San Antonio. I've forty-one higher on them than Minnesota. At this point. This is I think the clippers I had higher four wins over there over under sizing to be higher on them than just about anybody. I just couldn't really come up with in one forty two last year. They've got more guys healthy more depth this season. I didn't think that Blake Griffin did like that much for them. I didn't think that the Andre Jordan did that much for them last year. Those are the two main loss. So and there is deep as any team. I'm I didn't really see much reason why they're going to be any worse than last year. And remember they tanked at the end of the season as well. Now, the only thing that could kill it here is they've got that lottery protected pick that they owed to the Celtics. But again, I mean they're going to be trying to make the playoffs and if they don't, they don't. You could just see them maybe falling out of it in the last week or two of the season, and then doing what they did last year and killing this prediction for me. But I, I still, I just like they're telling a lot more than San Antonio who with Derek Whyte out with Shanta Murray out when they have one healthy and they have three guards who are healthy on this team is a derozen and mills and Ford's forgetting anybody now I don't think you are. So, I mean, they're, they're all that all that talk we'd had about, I thought about about the Rosen playing up the three. Well, that's not gonna happen for awhile. We'll and like they had to start dovish tons at the three in the last preseason game against the hawks like. It's really a now, maybe Gregg. Popovich is just going to get so much out of them defensively playing these enormous lines. Rega- does look pretty good. Give him that August bell Nellie. That's who were forgetting as still held. They've got Murray, white and Walker are out. But Quincy pond x. are going to have to play a. So I do think these guys can still defend. Okay. The Murray would have been a big part of that to me, but I just the scoring just as going to really struggle as far as I'm concerned. So yeah, I see them right at forty one wins. But again, you know, they could have a forty one point, two French and win forty four. You know, like, that's it. I'm not saying that they are out of the play offs at all. Here. I just have them a little bit below some of these other teams. We haven't seen it really with this mix at this point in so as they have no spacing on the team at all the people who can space can't stop anybody. So I, I never liked that. Maybe pop can get enough out of them, but I'm a, I'm a little skeptical of June. Talked about those teams at all. I have three team tear here and I originally had since obviously they were in higher tier before everybody got hurt. I'm worried about their offense. I'm worried about their defense really second unit offense and everywhere defense. So I've the clippers as my ninety, two forty Spurs as my ten thirty nine and then Minnesota, right, right there. Thirty eight and you make a good argument on the clippers. Like it's one of those weird things like intuitively. Gallon Oris the clippers upright because I think you had the clippers under at thirty eight on our show, and I watched them. I will. I watched a little bit more of them and you know what I started realizing was this idea that they it's unrealistic to expect them to be less healthy. You know the the idea that because they were just ravaged by injuries. Last year mean Beverly Gallo Griffin Mr. bunch time when he was still on the team at the downgraded center. Oh, yeah. I mean Bradley basically early played for them, and so you have all of those different elements that are in play. They're also very deep team and doc did a wonderful job coaching. Now I think ducks coaching job is actually in some ways gonna be harder this year because now he's cutting the minutes of veterans who think they're gonna play, and now he's going to have to deal with guys who think they should play more as opposed to like the hungry guys like Taiwan and everything else, but they're better town is better talent. So I think that's going to be there. Sin, Tony, thirty, nine, Minnesota thirty. Eight then have a little bit of gap before my next year. So I wanna see where you have Minnesota had them at forty wins, though I could easily. See them. I mean, I guess they still won or head the point differential of a thirty eight win team in the first year without Jimmy Butler. So I don't see them going that far below that towns and Wiggins presumably are a little bit better. They didn't have Jeff Teague. I think he'll give them more than Rubio gave them that year, the day of a little more depth than they did. You know, touch Gibson's a quality player. I do like the fit of tala ver- there as well. So I've got Memphis at thirty six. That's one that I had not. I didn't do their pot obviously. So I had to kind of come from scratch it with that prediction, Dallas at thirty four and you know. So that's kind of its own sear there. And then I got Phoenix twenty six and Sacramento originally predicted twenty four. I'm going to downgrade them to twenty three after seeing their preseason how the pieces fit together. Dave Egar's just artistic coaching. So shall we say just almost protests coaching, blink four Biggs at once. You know, I, it doesn't seem like he's particularly happy with this roster and the total lack of. Of a stretch element. So Sacramento got last and I'm going to pick them to be the worst team in in the NBA twenty three wins fifteenth in the Western Conference. So I have two tiers for the remaining part, Minnesota and Dallas in one are starting at Minnesota, Dallas and Memphis in one of their own thirty five for Dallas, thirty four for Memphis. I like both those teams. I could see them being above it. That's also why they're kind of their own tears. I could see them winning in the, you know, a little bit more, but then also could see it's taking step back Memphis such a hard team to predict this year. Then Phoenix and sack, I think Phoenix's meaningfully better than Sacramento or when you have t- teams that. So I have Phoenix at twenty seven, Sacramento, twenty four in Phoenix. I see them as more like thirty wind team, and that's including some downgrade with Evan Booker know whatever's going on. It looks like he's going to start using, but you know whether he's on two percent has over about Phoenix like they had the point differential eighteen win team last year rhyme. In Phoenix and Sacramento. There were both like you twenty nine and twenty ninth and thirtieth. Thirtieth in offense and defense last year. So if gets. The twenty six. That's actually like an eight game, improve it like, that's pretty good. You know, I mean, I, I know the over under his twenty nine and like, aren't they signed Trevor REEs ability and deandre Eytan has had some good points and rebounds games in the preseason. But you know, I don't think he's going to be an effective winning player this year. Josh Jackson, it seems like he's gonna get a plenty of rope to do exactly what he wants to do, and that's not going to be good for the team. So I mean, I like I do think that Ryan Anderson helps them offense at least a. But this is one of those teams. I've said this about quite a few teams where you know they have a feud lineups they can get to that. You feel pretty good about, but then there's just so many other pieces that don't make any sense that you think that those lineups are rarely going to be deployed and then it doesn't really work, you know, they're, they don't have enough spacing. They don't have enough defense in a lot of these lineups. You know, if you're gonna have Jackson out there j. warns that other piece it doesn't fit. They don't have a point guard of the play Booker at point guard or or you know, what's the story there? Your check Harrison. While he's a good story and a good defender just doesn't really seem to work as an offensive player. He's just not even remotely interested in taking three pointer and not someone who you're going to have. The bond is hand. So let's talk a little bit about our friends at seek as listeners know. I spent time in Japan on the honeymoon. My wife really wanted to go to sumo wrestling. I'd never been thawed. It would be awesome to check it out. 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One that's got a couple knocked off due to the adjustment that I had to make. I really liked Toronto. I think they could win a lot of games. So I, I'm not I, I could see it being hired that it just it was one of those I need to build a little bit, so have them and then a little bit of a gap and then Philly at fifty four, which is still high for them. I might end up moving this down a slaughter to if I wanna try to reconcile this and get it closer to flush. But I see those as unquestionably to me the three best teams in the Eastern Conference as of now, I actually Toronto one ahead of Boston with fifty. Eight wins Boston interesting with Gordon Hayward looking like he's not even really close to back right now. Curry Irving, probably gonna get a lot of rest and as good as his team is, you know, they've not really scored that effectively without Irving on the floor. You know, they do have cell a depth. They're going to defend. I don't see them again. This just has the feel of such a talented team that I don't see them defending quite as hard on an every night basis because they just don't. Need to last year. They needed to be that good defensively to win games. And you could also just see some guys generally a little upset about how much playing time they're getting, how many touches they're getting. Maybe the chemistry won't quite be there. Rossier not reaching an extension as well. You know, as does not augur extremely well for that. So I think this is a fabulous team. I could easily see them winning sixty games I could easily on. We did a whole preview. Obviously I'm Boston with talk more about why I've got them at fifty seven there. I've got my next year actually got Philly below Toronto in Boston, and they are in the same tier as the Milwaukee Bucks. My friend. I'm totally fine with that. I, I have no Ocoee at fifty win, so I have them meaningfully ahead of Indiana, but I'm just, I just don't see those teams exactly the same yet just because Philly didn't last year in Milwaukee. It's I expect to see it, but we haven't seen it yet. Yeah, you know, I'm not sure that I don't like Milwaukee's talent more than Phillies to be honest. I think Yanez is clearly the best player on. On either of those two teams. And I think the bucks talent actually fits around a Yoenis a little bit better than the Sixers talent fits around Simmons and Embiid a and you know, maybe Embiid is just going to be so good this year that that won't be Tarini more. You know, in the fact that he's in better shape really liked what I've seen from in the preseason in terms of posting up. But this full experiment I predict is not really gonna go that well, unfortunately, and I think that's gonna cost them some wins early on their lack adept is gonna cost them some wins or early on Wilson Chandler, no indication that he's close yet coming back from that hamstring they're gonna manage that shouli conservative, really relying on him as well. The relying on Robert Covington to hit shots also, which is kinda waxed and waned throughout his. I've got Philly with fifty three, but walkie at fifty one. But I think it's very possible that Milwaukee could actually a finish the head of Philly this year. Then I've got Indiana at forty eight. You know, the vibes coming out of there in the preseason are not amazing. Miles Turner has. Not looked awesome, but all depots still a boss, hurry governs maybe won't be as good as he was last year, but he's still solid. So I think Indiana I've kinda gotten their own to your at forty eight wins there. And so I'll stop at that point and I have some pretty much narrow tier two because did closest team to them terms record. I have Washington at forty, four and India Indian forty, six, but I trust the Pacers so much more than the wizards. I, if I were to pick, I would, I would have Indiana going above this more than Washington going about this. An interesting element to say you trust. I agree with you. I like Indiana more, but I mean, Washington has players that we are more familiar with who've been playing at this level for longer and they've been until slow longer with this core than than Indiana, you know? Well, if you were to tell me that John wall was one hundred percent healthy or at least like ninety five percent healthy. I would feel differently, but until I know that for sure. And I mean, they're also all these other weird issues with them, like Indiana their day. They added talent. I think they're a better team. Talent wise. Maybe health will be will be a factor there. But like Washington's weird stuff at the center position, like Dwight will gum up some of their offensive stuff in defensively. You know, he has his moments, missions hurt, but will to which was never any and he's already hurt, and then there and there there is YoM Mimi, and I could see Kelly Oubre chafing, not getting an extension and all these other kind of issues. And so the wizards, it's more of a chemistry disaster potential because they played a lot without John wall last year and sacri- really stepped up Bradley Beal really stepped up. But I also like I don't really trust Scott Brooks to maximize this roster lakey one of the weird things for me, we've talked about severe amendment with Timoteo, but Scott, Brooks also built this reputation of his team's always defending in his last stop and the wizard haven't done that. And so that could be, you know, they're getting a little blase with where they kind of been in the same place for a few years. All that kind of stuff, but I'm not sold that they're going to really turn that around and be, you know, much better defensive team. This. A year and then so then the other team have with Washington is Miami forty forty-three. They're almost exactly the opposite were, I think, I know what I'm getting from Miami. It's just about, I don't think they like they could be win a couple extra games. I think they're going to be scrapping through close games so how well they do in the clutch is going to affect them more than most teams, but they're going to defend. They have a lot of talent who knows the might be getting Jimmy Butler eventually. And I like a lot of what Miami does. I just don't really. I don't trust their offense all the way yet. And I worry about when they get into close games like Wade, had some crazy runs last year, both in the regular season at some big ones I had to have. I think one in the playoffs as well. I don't think that's necessarily going to continue. I had them at forty four while I don't believe a ton in conference disparity. Mex- conferences disparity being in one conference or another yoke can give you an extra win or two, but you know, that's the maybe how you get to forty four. If you're Miami with the rest of this conference, just having teams that don't have as much as they don't play as hard as they do. So Washington and Miami are cutting their own to you at six and seven. Then the incredible battle for the seat. It's likely that some team will emerge to have more than the thirty seven wins that I picked the Charlotte Hornets four at the eighth seed. But y'all, I'm just not sure what individual team that is. I've got them at thirty seven Detroit at thirty six. That one could go either way. I see those guys is kinda the ones battling for the eighth seed of the teams below them. I guess Brooklyn is probably the most likely to emerge as to get into their baby Orlando as well. Though, you know, I'm not sure necessarily maybe why I think Orlando is better than Brooklyn. Got Orlando with thirty one wins Brooklyn thirty. And then Cleveland also with thirty as well as another team that I did not get a chance to the team preview for I think a little bit more optimistic on the bottom of this group. So I have Charlotte getting the eight seed with thirty nine wins Obeidi I don't trust. I don't trust them or Detroit. I think the top seven is pretty solid, but then. Trust either those eight seeds. And so I I pushed them down both a little bit. I wasn't going to give them a boost just because I don't like the bottom of the east. And so the thirty nine thirty eight. Then Brooklyn Cleveland, Orlando, they kind of finish out so their their own to your after this. I'll talk about all of them because you just did I broker at thirty three Cleveland at thirty three Orlando, thirty one. I moved Cleveland up from projections. I thought they looked good in the preseason for the relatives of my expectations. Expectations were very low, but I thought they competed more defensively and their offensive system seem to be making a little bit more sense than I fear and Brooklyn. I like their depth. I, you know, I could have had them, you know, little bit higher. This red round the range and it's weird for me to pick and then I've Orlando with thirty one. So I have three teams in the low thirties, which I just said, doesn't happen very often, but I couldn't really put these teams in either direction. I guess that would be an easy way for my win total to get closer to square would be those teams each win, like tooth you're. And that's really where I have that an all finish out the east. I've Chicago at twenty nine defense concerns me if Markkanen was starting the season healthy. I would probably have them. Right around where Landau is, but they aren't and the depth kind of concerns on the guard liner. Definitely. I mean, they don't have backup point guards and Cameron Payne and upset. I'm question Mark. Maybe. No backup point guards. They have Christine. And so so that's a big concern for me. But I do think originally actually had them higher because I thought of the idea that Hoiberg will run through the finish line just like they did last year where they should have lost a couple extra games though. They got Carter and I think that we're pretty well for them then to have the Knicks twenty six. I have them as below twenty six win team without porzingas and then above that with him. But I think the ease ease back in, and then I have Atlanta's the worst team in the league with twenty two. I could see them winning more, but I also see them being more comfortable just kind of easing easing into it and not really pushing as much at the end of the season, and Sacramento doesn't have their own pick. So I think that'll push them up a couple of wins. I think those teams are pretty similar in terms of talent, but the incentives are different. So that's why have them slightly different. I could see maybe Atlanta having the worst record, but Sacramento being the worst team, you know, that's the could be possible by the end of the year, finishing out to Chicago twenty seven wins for me that I've got the Knicks all the way down at twenty five. One of the biggest differences. With their over under which I was twenty nine th the last time I checked it. So as I said, twelve hundred thirty nine wins overall for the league. I tried to explain that few other categories here the bottom tier of teams. I think there are clear four worst teams in the league. Those are Lanta Sacramento Phoenix, and the the Knicks Phoenix I could getting out of that category. Chicago, I could see falling into it a Orlando you could see falling into it as well. So maybe it's even fair to say Atlanta, Sacramento in the Knicks. You know, Phoenix probably has more talent than those teams to at this point. What do you see as the like bottom tier in contention for the worst record in the league teams, I think it's Atlanta sack in the Knicks just because the next all have to do is take their foot off the accelerator with Porzingis. And I think they're right around this. I like their veterans a little bit more, but I mean, Phoenix and and like sack. Those teams have capable players as well in Atlanta, like their reasons to think they could be a little bit better than this. And then, yeah, I guess the. Teams that could fall in Chicago, Orlando, Cleveland, Brooklyn in Cleveland, has that protected pick story. So you could see them kind of pushing it a little bit. If it if it starts badly, they could just keep it going. They could also sell off some of their guy. They're good players and just, you know, give the keys over to Sexton and well, you know, sex and could be good. Eventually, young point guards are almost never good originally so that their ways for them to kind of pivot if they want to. But I think it's gonna take a lot for that to happen. And I mean, Brooklyn is this the first time they've had their own pick on encumbered in a long time. So if they at the end up falling into it, I could see them moving some of their kind of expiring contributors, that sort of thing, and then just move at the deadline so they could get into it and you know Dallas, like there's an easy kind of downside. Potential argument here of it just takes a little bit longer. They can have an encouraging year and then at having the stewardship of Mark Yuban Carlisle, who were both so stable in their understanding of of their roles with this team that they go, fine. Let's just play younger guys. Let's figure out whatever's going to happen with Deandra now, all that kind of stuff like I could see that happening as well. I just think there too. Good to have that happen. Yeah, I think I mean, you could see Barnes who could be a free agent might be trade kit. The under Jordan could be a trade. If it all goes poorly, who are your list of championship contenders? Warriors are I have them kind of separate from everybody else than the next group would be Boston, Toronto, Houston, I think have those teams together and then the outside outside outside shot would be Utah, Philly and Milwaukee. All those teams just they have some ceiling that I think is worth talking about, but they haven't proven it. And all those teams actually like offensively. I just worry like Philly crunch time. Offense was a big concern last year, Utah. That's where they need to make big strides is just getting reliable buckets against really good teams. And then Milwaukee would just need to see all of it from them. So I would say though but that that's kind of where I push it. There other teams that could get into the mix with a really, really good season. But I feel like driving on there. I got four championship contenders, Golden State, Houston, Boston in Toronto, Philly in Utah are interesting. I could see them. In the regular season, statistically looking as good as the four, four mentioned teams. But one of the things that I've been talking about a lot and those even thrown into stark relief last year was that at the absolute highest levels, there's a stylistic change, lots of shooting being able to switch everything and with Embiid with Gobert Philly and Utah are great defensive teams. I don't think that that style works as well against the best teams. Then you look on the other end, you know those teams don't have the one individual guy who can go right at a switch and Beata switch for one on one and really punish that style either. You know, both those teams forgive really struggled to score against those best defenses when they really put their best personnel out there. So Boston Toronto, Houston, golden. Those are the four teams to me that can play the style. That is one at the highest levels in the NBA where you've got enough shooting. You've got awesome creators who can win one on one and also force you out of. Your conventional pick and roll defence, even if you have a go bearer and Embiid end defensively switch everything as well. So those, that's why I'm so limited there. I mean like you, I think you Todd, and maybe if everything goes right, they, they could get there. Maybe if everything goes right for the Lakers so they make the right trade or everything goes right from walkie they could get into this. But as of right now, those are the only four teams that can do those three three things. Awesome creators to beat switches enough shooting and then the ability to switch everything defensively. So that said Mike conference finalists are pretty easy to guess, golden, Satan, Houston, the west Boston Toronto in the east and my NBA finals pick Golden State Warriors over the Toronto Raptors in six games. I think Boston has more talent. The Toronto. I'm still not comfortable. Just assuming that Kawai Leonard is going to be twenty sixteen seventeen quite Leonard by the end of the year. But I'm also not sure that Kyrie Irving is going to be healthy by the end of the year or. Percent that Gordon Hayward is going to be back to the guy that he was that it's all going to work in Boston with all what are going to be some people who rightfully feel pretty entitled to be advancing their careers, young guys like broaden Tatum rosier. So that's why I'm going picture. I, I mean, that's like, you know, a fifty one forty nine picked me though, and I could very easily see Boston making me feel stupid. You have to imagine they would have the coaching advantage in a match up between a those two teams. The way I'm framing this is that I think Boston is the most likely Eastern Conference champion. Even if I see your scenario playing out should both those teams be healthy and as I expect it or help, you know what we expect going into season. I Boston beating Toronto in seven games and then the warriors Boston, I think that series is really gonna matter home court to. 'cause if Boston has home court, it is kinda hard for me to see Toronto a beating them. Yeah. I mean, especially if it's a game seven in in the garden, Toronto IB. And this is a very different team in the. Another reason why have Boston over trying to was the most likely stern conference champion is coaching. I mean, we just don't know what Nick nurse is necessarily while I've liked elements of what I've seen, their chemistry issues that can come from that. There are scheme. I mean, yeah, we were pissed off at what wing. Casey didn't terms of Israel stations, but at least we knew, you know, there's something there's kind of a mystery box. So yeah, that that that's where I have it right now are ready to move onto the other awards will have a couple of questions I wanted to ask you here. Okay. You're gonna know based on by answer the see Toronto in the finals to this first one, which is more likely Golden State versus Boston or any other metro. The last three years we've done more likely Golden State for Cleveland or any other metro. We both picked golden savers Cleveland every year as being more likely ended up, of course, being the one, but so this year Golden State for spotted or any other matchup I'll take the field Boston Toronto is close, you know, Philly or Milwaukee could step in and the warriors. I expect the warriors win the west, but there is of course the chance that they don't. So I'll say, I'll say the field, they're not as confidently as you, but I still will. I also feel it as well. I mean, and I get the impression we're not that far off on this Boston Toronto thing. You've probably what percent chance which you have towards Boston and Boston Toronto series with everybody healthy. I with everyone healthy. So we're counting hundred percent? Yeah. Those bedouin said, because I think for me, if everyone were healthy and playing at the level, they played out the last time they're healthy. Don't include Hayward, and I actually probably actually make Boston the favourite if everyone were healthy, this is in some ways of picket against that you. I'm just not sure. I'll just say this. I think it's very close between between those two teams. I think both of them are wonderful. I think there's a very significant chance that those are the number two and three best teams in the league that both of them and the season meaningfully better than the rockets. But we have to actually justly lower on the rockets than I am. It seems like, well, I'm lower on them as a playoff team. I am high on them as a regular season team just because now I think there are a lot easier to defend and I worry about their defense a lot and so know like the putting out five-man lineups now they're going to need everybody to be healthy, which is a big concern because they have a lot of guys, they've history there and they just don't have as many options like I'm high on James Ennis if James NS doesn't work. If mellow doesn't work of j-, you know, Gerald, green doesn't have a strong place. They just don't have as many options. Less question here, more likely Golden State winning the title or the field. I'm going to go with Golden State, but I, I don't feel great about it. I think I could that could end up shifting over the course of this season, but they're just so incredibly talented and they can handle a lot of what different teams can throw at them. And I don't think Boston and Toronto as currently situated can handle everything that the warriors throw at them. You know, like Steph, curry is a big logistical challenge for both Toronto and Boston just because they have other good defenders, but they don't really have the right kind of guy for him. They have a lot of guys to throw its ranches like they do Co. why. But I think the warriors are meaningfully more talented than those teams. They're also well coached while Steve Kerr doesn't always sweep the leg as much as I think that he should with their talent. I think that they'll be able to make it work tactically. Even if Toronto in Houston, just like Houston to last year and Boston all have the ability to. Give them a really tough series. I'm gonna go with the field and not necessarily because I wouldn't favor a healthy Golden State team over any of these teams in the match up. But just because I think Golden State has been relatively lucky with injuries. You know this, especially with the way dre green is starting the season your. We've seen the last two years Steph curry, and Katie had these MC l. sprains that could have torpedoed their season head. They just occurred at a later point in time, and I don't think that they're quite as dominance. I've not necessarily their odds of having home court are lower than they used to be and that they could even not have home court in the finals as well, which wasn't really a possibility in past years. It seemed like, and you know these guys are getting a little older is green gonna be at the same level as Igwe dollar baby. He could get injured again as well. Katie stuff. You know, maybe they take a little bit of a step back. I'm not expecting that, but it could happen. And then again, you know, finding that shooting off the Benjamin, this team has. Probably gonna be the last in the NBA and bench threes again this season in. So maybe they can get someone on the market though they rarely been aggressive during this era doing that. They also only starting the season with fourteen guys because they're cheating out on the luxury tax. So there's just enough cracks enough warning signs here. I think people have forgotten how vulnerable they looked last season you're they didn't. They only played one team that was capable of beating them last year. I expect that to be to this season in and maybe even you could throw Utah into that category if they have to match up with them in, they're not one hundred percent so. And they're just so reliant on the shooting of Katie staff and Klay Thompson that if any of those guys loses effectiveness or MRs time, like their offense is just gonna fall off the cliff. So because they just don't have enough shooting in, it really comes to a head so is this is really, I would probably put the odds of a Golden State title this year, like forty percents. I'm just, I think I'd lower on them. They're just about anybody as of now, but they still have the most talented league. And if they're totally. Healthy and everything's clicking. I expect them to be significant favorites. I've just the chances of that being true are lower to me than in pastures, and there's also the the potential distraction of Katie really leaving this year to my prediction on him as actually a good one. We should do that right out Kevin Durant on the warriors next year. I see this as really, really close to fifty fifty. So I'm going to say yes, I'm gonna say he comes back and the reason why is because I don't love any of the other options playing in l. a. with LeBron is weird. The Knicks can't put together a good enough team to me for him. And so I think Durant would be willing to leave for a similarly good or close to it circumstance. And I don't think any of those present themselves is certainly if he cares about winning the Knicks seem unlikely early going to have one max slot available. Maybe they could try to trade for another order side and traders on that. I'd say if the warriors win the, I'll try do this a little bit more rigorously here. If the warriors win the championship, which I'm. Has a forty percent chance of happening. I, there's a near one hundred percent chance that he returns. It's a no one of significance has ever loved to championship team before it would just you just won three championships in a row be really hard to leave something like that. If they don't win it y'all, I could see it being like a fifty fifty proposition. Especially, you know, it'd be the manner in which it could happen to me be very interesting as well, right? Like if there's just a big injury and they lose okay, you know, maybe that means he's more likely to come back if they just get beat. And if they do get beat by the way with their full strength, it's going to be so ugly such a meltdown. It always is for these scenes, right? The ninety one pistons, the two thousand eleven Lakers and these guys have a lot of hubris earned hubris, but it's really gonna be so ugly in especially all the stuff that they get into the Robson's and whatnot. So I think there's probably about fifty fifty chance. He leaves maybe even more than that if they don't win the championship. So I'd say maybe overall, let's call it a sixty percent chance that he's on the warriors neck. All right. I'll tell you about ever lane before we continue get into MVP here. You're never going to overpay for quality clothes with everyone. I was glad that I got my ship for them right before I went on the honeymoon. I actually created a personalized collection at ever lane dot com slash rates so you can check out an I got because we were going to be involved in Japan who's be warm. I gotta last summer stuff, which was great. I really just enjoyed the quality of the fabric, their summer stuff. It's really made for summer. It's very light fabric. Some of those Henley shirts that they have are fantastic and not only do they have a lot of quality, but they're not making you pay for a brand named markup. Their prices are thirty to fifty percent lower than traditional retailers, and they tell you the real cost. They want to know what you're paying for and why, and they're so transferred about everything their materials, the ethical factories that they work with. So go to that ever lane dot com slash cast space yariel. You'll get free shipping on your first order. You could see the stuff that I got from them as well. Once again, that's ever lane dot com. Slash cap space and let him note that slash cats race. You're all that you came from us. I struggled with MVP this year more than ever. I think an in the reason for that is we continue to see this growing disconnect between the regular season and the postseason. If you wanna be the list, the three best players in the NBA, will that be Steph curry, Kevin Durant, LeBron James, none of those players is higher than three on my list, though I'm gonna go out on the limb and say that number one this year is going to be honest Cuco. His jump shot looks good. He looks reworked his form somewhat in the off season. He's taking threes off the dribble with confidence. I think a big problem for youngest was his confidence because his old coach was always telling him, don't shoot the shot plenty of threes as a rookie shot. Plenty of threes when he was over in Greece in really, you know, he'll make them in practice and then to go just in his head, this feeling of guilt whenever he would take a jump shot. I think Mike booed noser has cured him of that. He's gonna monsigor these to be way better defensively as well. So he. His might pick for MVP, who is yours? The same Greek gentlemen is, is might man and God. We are on the books this year. This is, I mean, I it just like there's this feeling like all the box. It was disappointed, but that because of the coach, I mean the I'm as I've said many times regarding the putting my money where my mouth is with them, and I think my Gunnhild is going to do a good job at least and regular season, and they're gonna be really good. It's one other really important point with you on this that you brought up his shooting, but the shooting around him in having cogent force basing and offensive scheme. I think he's gonna get more room to operate, and that will really help him efficiently. Also think that Yana is defense will get a little bit more appreciation. I think he's more of a four and a five cent me. You can get those help blocks which some people really like and all that. And he'll be an important part of their team. They're going to improve a lot and I'll go through the rest of mine. I have LeBron at number two, there is an incredibly easy narrative for LeBron this year. The Lakers are going to be much better. Also, I think the Cavs are going to be significantly worse and well. Well, we can make an argument that that shouldn't count or wherever voting though. I think there's an interesting argument that maybe it should. Yeah, the Lakers offensively I think they're going to grow lot with him. I think that's gonna. Oh. Caveat here, which I mentioned before you any further. We're doing this based on who we think is gonna deserve it. Not who we think will. Yes, because try guess like what some of the crazy people in the media are to with their picks is just too difficult. Also not very interesting, agreed. And so I'm talking about these narratives, but also that feeds into genuine things that I believe the O'Brien is going to be so central to opening up a lot of what the Lakers guys can do. Offensively I love a lot of their guys is supporting pieces. Offensively, Josh Hart is a great example of this Brandon Ingram. I'm very interested in how he fits in with LeBron, but also they'll have now a lot of time to play without him to like when he when he's not on the floor, they can put out some really strong lineups. I worry a little bit about the center position with them, but they'll do some interesting things. My number three. So I've said a little bit that I think James Harden's candidacy this year is under appreciated as a strong chance to repeat his actually having four is by number two. I haven't fourth because I just think Steph curry. Offensive player, and so I'm not willing to. I'm not willing to downgrade kore- because I think hardens and a better kind of situation. Again, this deserves versus record. I think harden is more likely to win the award than Steph curry for a series of pretty obvious reasons. But I think steps have better offensive players. So there we go with that. And then my fifth is Anthony, Davis Davis. This could be the year that he just blows everyone away that he has the year that we're thinking of for Janas. I'm open to that possibility. But the reason I don't have him any higher is because he doesn't have the ball in his hands enough. And for me, that's an important part value. And he's wonderful defensively, maybe he, you know, he has a chance of winning defensive player of the year as well, though I don't expect it so Davis. This could be the year he blows up. I think fifth is a fair, fair kind of expected value though. He could be higher lower than I've hard number two just because he is a bunch for health record than curry. Agree. If you had to say, who do you want in the playoffs stuff career, James harden in they're both healthy. I would go with curry for a few different reasons that we. Talked about many times before, but I, I had hard number two. I mean, you know, Houston is going to be good this year and why they re good. James harden is awesome. Again, you know, he's not really at an age where should be slowing down yet. So I mean, he's he's been just ridiculous. The last two regular seasons. I expect that really to continue in for him to be the big engine and that curry, ios, just he's acted have quite as big of a load of again, I expect the numbers to really be there for him. I think if you're going to look at RPM, those are probably going to be the three best guys a this season on encourage looks awesome in the preseason to. That's a another note. I've got AD fourth of, you know, it's it's going to be hard for New Orleans. I think to be good enough to where he's really going to crack into that top three for me. I still do rely on team success to some degree. Although generally it's the player driving the team's success. I've LeBron down at v a unlike you. I think that he may be mischaracterizing what you said. But I think he's actually going to have his worst season. In a long time both due to age and because he's just not going to be in as much of a position. So security is not going to have the shooting around him. I think maybe the only hope for him, you know, staying there is where he's been these last few years. Offensively is just that the league continues to get so much smaller and he's the same size. I guess that's like reverse days confused there but at and so that even if there is more double team in the knees, just going to be able to overwhelm the people guarding him size-wise, even more than there isn't as much predict actually talked about that unapplied should be coming out this week with Ben Taylor of where we kind of finished up our greatest of all time discussion from a couple of weeks ago. Got Katie six, Kawai, seventh and quiet being seventh. If you asked me who was most likely to win MVP I would definitely have him above k. d. probably have about curry. I might even have a Anthony Davis, but this is more just a prediction of what I think is most likely. But coli has such an easy narrative. If he gets back to being. The player that he was two years ago and drives Toronto to sixty wins. That's very easy. And you know, he was just also he would have been my pick for him VP last year. So him being seventh is really more about just not being sure that he's back and or at least back to quite the level that he was. If he is at that level, he probably would be number one pick for VP. It's just this is more question of does he get there rather than whether he's capable? Yeah, sixteen seventeen. Leonard would be number one on my list. We just don't. I haven't six than ABC eighty seven. Who do you think we'll get you on? I think this is his ear, and we'll also the bucks only win. You know, what? Did you have them at fifty to one? Is that enough? Yes, because he's getting. He's getting all the credit even Chris Middleton and they have a lot of other good players. It's Janas getting the shine. And I mean, I was looking back at his assistant profile last year and it was stronger than I had remember you and you think about what you think about what opens up for him by virtue of. Of having, you know, a competent coach and by having all this stuff. So yeah, last year Jaanus twenty seven point. Four p. e. r. sixty percent true shooting. Basically thirty percent usage, which is about the same Steph curry, just a smidge below that, and you know a better defensive profile than LeBron better defensive profile because LeBron was in show modo last year. That's another point of qualification here LeBron was trying more on defense. I could see him being higher, but I, you know, I think it'll be show book. But yeah. So I mean, Janas if he just takes a modest step up from that, and I think he could take more than modest step up from that. He's going to be ridiculous you in terms of who will get it. I don't think fifty. One wins doesn't seem like enough. That's low historically for a potential MVP. There might be some hardened fatigue as well. Also saying that again, we're talking about no one player, I think has greater than fifty percent percent chance of getting this. So I'm kind of accounting for the fact that the bucks could even better than fifty-one wins. You know, maybe they get to fifty three. Fifty four and they get the three seed, then it becomes a lot easier. Even if I'm not predicting that to happen, I think that's a significant possibility. And again, you know, you've got some of the competition here. AD LeBron you. I don't see their team's winning so much more either. And then hardened a curry k. d. you can see them just, you know, kind of taking their foot off the accelerator or your, there's fatigue with them, or Katie and curry split the boats again or so, yeah. The youngest would be my big good. Be your number two LeBron I think it again devoted aren't necessarily us. I think that it's, you know, he, he will transform the Lakers offense, and I'm really excited to see that voters care more about offense than defense. The Lakers are gonna win a bunch more games and the other. That's one of the other things that goes against case is that there's a significant chance. They don't when they have a really good year and don't win as many games as last year just because they had a crazy year. And so I could feel I could imagine that more kind of people who aren't watching the the nitty gritty of it the way that we might see that and go, well, how can I vote for somebody. If they didn't win as many games as last year and that that you know like, oh, they replaced him with tomorrow and all this other stuff. And so even though they played over their heads last year, I could see that being a potential issue. So yeah, I I would have Jaanus then probably LeBron hardener right next to each other, but I'll go abroad over hardened partially due to fatigue argument. And then I don't want to go after that yet. Hard would be number two. Most likely LeBron probably number three do an ad for ourselves. Here are patriot patriot dot com slash Dunkin. We're starting a new initiative here. We're gonna have ad free episodes for the next two weeks. If it drives some subscriptions. A lot of people have asked for that said they would subscribe if we had it on days where we don't record right at night, you'll those should be up at the same moment that the show is released. Patriot dot com slash Duncan Larue and because Liam is going to be the one who's the editing out the the ads on days when we record late at night, it probably won't be up until the morning east. Time because he's in eastern time zone to make him stay up till three in the morning just to end it out the as. 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And as we're going through it, I know that we did one for the Knicks after the Noah's. Stretch thousand good one. And so as moves happen at some point, presumably Jimmy Butler is gonna get traded, so there will be salary cap sheets from that, and and then you know, other stuff as we think about it, you to what are the fun things about the patriot as we every once in a while, we think like, oh, this could be an interesting thing to do like, that's how my airport AMA started was. It was just okay, I want I want to do this, and so I'll just answer questions and so I'm traveling or if I have some free time I do that. And those are of course exclusively all the AMA mailbag type stuff. Not only are the answers exclusively for patriotic people, but only patriot people get to ask the questions. So you get a lot more significantly higher likelihood that your question gets answered by us. But by the way, do know LIAM's a new title is no director of basketball research for for dunked on nice, although I actually wanted to consult with you on this too. Should we just make him director of insight enforce a, maybe we should just change it to that. I, I don't know. I kind of want to be director of insight. Yeah, that that by the way, if you don't know rob Hennigan's actual title with the Oklahoma City thunder, when he returned there a apparently you have to run another franchise into the ground before you can be to term ind- to be a director of inside enforce. Yeah, he's definitely not director refined site. All right coach of the year. I've said previously that it should just be Gregg, Popovich and Steve Kerr, that those are the best coaches over your that is no longer the case for me with Kerr. I mean, this is a regular season award. I don't think that SIV Kerr's great regular season coach anymore. Maybe he is because he's keeping the team fresh or whatever. But you know, if you're, he was certainly not the coach. I would wanna have the number one coach I wanna have if I wanted to win games in the regular season is a purchase changing, perhaps. So I mean, he's not concerned about regular seasons awards, but the reality is he's not driving his team to win the regular season. He's not playing the best lineups. He's not trying to really push these guys in your four. So I kinda take him out of that Gregg Popovich certainly always in that conversation I, but I just don't expect this. I mean that good this year and they did if they'd played at the same level that they had played at all year. Last year. I think he probably would have been my coach the year, but he did kind of fade off the little bit towards the end. So I still think he's ease really good, but I'm. Going away a little bit. I've more reason with Kerr than with Popovich frankly, from just the idea that those guys will be at the top of my ballot every year. So what's your reaction to that to any? I'm totally fine. Moving down. I mean, you could say, oh, well, it's because of the job he's asked to these being asked to do. That's a fair point. But at the not not squeezing everything out because that's not your job is a little bit of a weird way to give somebody credit. So I still have pop over Stevens just because of what they did defensively. Last year is absolutely incredible. I've been the way that they played over their heads with being out and everything else, and so I'm giving him that difference for now. I don't know if that's going to continue. I have Stephen second, and then you have this interesting. I, I don't exactly know where to draw the line after that. But it's, you know, guys like Quin Snyder is underrated as a regular season. Coach does a really good job. We'll see what Carlyle can do with Ricardo with the talent. The Dallas has this year because they've been in such a weird place. Spo- I think does a great job squeezing things out of that. Miami group were offensively, especially you have. To try to maximize guys put him into good situation succeed, but my answer on who will win. I have two significant contenders Boone holes in Quincy Neider boot because the bucks are going to win a bunch more games and not like Memphis where they're winning a bunch more games because they're guys are healthier and Quin Snyder because I think the jazz are going to be a very good team. I think they will surprise people by being in the higher mix and so that will give Snyder sometime, but I'm going to give Putin holder the award because that's the type of thing that happens. If you go way over expectations and you're good team and because of the value over not replacement coach, but Jason Kidd and Joe punchy, I think he'll I would pick boot noser to win as well. Insider reply number two, Nick nurse, actually, this time about who will win it, Nick nurse. It could be by number three of other. You do make a good point that I'm probably giving short shrift to pay the when fifty nine games last year into maybe they'll be feeling that it's more real. This year because they have Kawhi and they might just dominate even more. But so maybe the narrative behind Nick nurses in his strong as I thought duck rivers in this conference. Nation for me also again, if. Oh, absolutely. If the clippers are exceed expectations like I expect, I don't see Brad Stevens in quite as well. You know, if you want me to just rank in this is almost becoming in some ways like the MVP where ranking the best coaches and who's the, you know, added the most wins to their team during the regular season is a different inquiry. You know, I still have Popovich Kerr Stevens than maybe Snyder as two guys that I think of these the best coaches in the league. But I don't see Stevens getting into the national conversation number one because I don't see the Celtics, just exceeding expectations as usually such a large component of that. Number two, you know, the thought was he was gonna win last year, which was ridiculous that he didn't. I coach to be fired. I spent some time on this because I realized I hadn't realized how many coaches at the bottom of the league changed this past year. I mean, so basically it's hard to expect any of those guys to be the first coach fire. So that leaves acre as significantly the most likely. He's already thrown some shade at the front office, and that's always a sign that maybe things are shaky. I mean, I think the groceries that have been bought for him are not good, but that in many ways does not matter. But I wanted to go through my list of other contentious and talk about younger real quick Scher. He was by most my pick as well and the kings exercise their fourth year UpJohn memories. So he's got two years left now, but you know, he's getting to the point where Ovalles God, we let him go into a lame-duck your. We have to either you'll extend him or let him go. And I would be shocked if they the kings play well enough this year that they'd wanna think about extending him. So you could also see just kind of agitating a little bit to get fired eastern. He did that in Memphis. He flirted with the Minnesota job, maybe infected. If the Minnesota job comes open, he would want to just get out of Sacramento. Go to Minnesota apparently seems to have relationship there with Glenn Taylor. He was ended up not leaving Memphis, but the talk was us going to do that and go to Minnesota for a while of. But yeah, I. Yeager seems like the obvious picker than expected to suck again this year, which else you're going to go through the rest of your list? Yeah. So the other teams on my list coaches on my list are not coaches that if they, if the season goes to my expectations would be fired, but if it goes differently, I could see. And so I'm going to start that with Mike Malone. I mean, it's there. It seemed like there was a discussion about whether to keep him this year. One of the few things they can still change in Denver is the coach, Scott Brooks similar argument. Then he's making too much. He kinda was on my list mean this the the playoffs will do. He's also like Grunfeld. I can't imagine Grunfeld changing horses midstream at certain moats. I could just see this isn't just going south. They're paying seven million a year, like it's really hard. I'd forgotten it. Was that high? Yeah. I mean, that was a clear again country and other than Malone these aren't in particular, but the other ones that had so Scott Brooks tight Lou. If the season really goes out, he signed an extension pretty recently as well. Luke Walton LeBron trashy he should have been on my list. Billy Donovan. If. Okay, see if it turns for them. Yeah. And then the last one, even though I think he's a wonderful coach, but we had these weird murmurs last year Terry Stotts you know, I think starts is a wonderful coach, but again, there aren't many things they can change with his team. I could see that being one as well. Juicy tips. I did not say Tibbs. I see that as something I see that somebody else also for me firing sibito mid season would be a very big decision. You know, like firing him as the coach. I mean, I guess would lay didn't take over. I don't even. I think that he will not be running this team next year, but I would also be surprised if he got fired yet does kind of seem to have the feeling effect. It wouldn't surprise me because all the bed teams now have new coaches, and they went through this last year a, it wouldn't surprise me if we have zero in season firings this year. But yeah, I would. I think we'll have one. I think we'll have one in. That's it. Yeah, but it's hard to identify who that would be. But yeah, I mean if there's one, if one of these west playoff teams that's used to making the playoffs of just is not meeting expectations, Malone. Starts the to fall into that category, but yet you're would still be my most likely in season firing, a tick what we're gonna do here actually because we only have two games tomorrow. Obviously we're going to record on those, but when we just take this to apart too and give you a little bit more content for tomorrow, what can I plug something before we go? Yes. So my massive thirty p. series is now all out for the athlete. You can read it's combination off season review, regular season preview and twenty nine nine off season preview of my preliminary estimates recap space, free agents, extension, eligible, guys, all that fun stuff, and I put a lot into it. So those are all at the ethnic people can check that out and my real Jim radio podcast on tears with Matt Moore, it'd be good to listen to before the stars regular season before it all gets invalidated by what happens that's out there. I don't know when the next one's coming out, but that's a lot of material. If you if you wanna go through it and we'll see how that sort of ages. I also had a piece for debate area site. About the McKinney, the McKinney situation, how they did all that. I talked about that a little bit yesterday and listeners of this show might be interested in that minutia our thanks for listening. We'll be back tomorrow with actual discussion of real NBA games taught you Ellen. Yeah, you must love hoops if you're enjoying another great episode of dumped on the lockdown podcast network has more hoops for you. Loft on has a podcast on every NBA team. If you're a Lakers fan, a bucks fan, a Celtics fan or a Mavericks fan. 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LSU is the Geauxt

Slate's Hang Up and Listen

1:26:16 hr | 1 year ago

LSU is the Geauxt

"Following podcast contains explicit language. Hi I'm Steffan. Fat Sis. The author author of Word Freak and a few seconds of panic and this is slates sports. podcast hang up and listen for the week of January fourteenth twenty twenty on this week's show will discuss discuss Louisiana State University's forty two twenty five destruction of clemes and in Monday night's College Football Championship game which possibly made someone someone on this show content if not even happy Jeff Passan of ESPN will join us to assess the punishment handed down by Major League baseball to the Houston Astros throws for systematically cheating in the year they won the world series and beyond and finally we'll talk to slates Daniel Amber about his wrenching story. Sorry about a woman who accused three New York mets players of raping her in one thousand nine hundred eighty one how those players weren't charged and how she and the story were forgotten joining me from our New Orleans Bureau. His parents houses Josh Levin Slates National Editor and the author of the queen the forgotten life behind find an American myth josh welcome. I'm Pretty Happy Stephan. I don't know what the implication was that. I'm not capable of experiencing joy. Well you're a little bit dodig when it comes comes to these things. Let's be honest last week. You said you'RE A dispassionate observer. Not A fan. Did I say that he did say something I would say yes but but enough about. We'll talk more about the game. We have some important announcements for our listeners. Today Josh why don't we start by explaining. Why you've been in New Orleans the past three awakes? I wanted to go to the game. Man needed three weeks of crap to go in the saints. Game was last week true. But now I've been working on a new season season of slates award winning podcast slow-burn. It's going to be about David Duke in his political rise in Louisiana in the eighties nineties. which is a story? I've really been wanting to tell for a long time. It's a story that's important to me. It was a huge thing in the state when I was growing up here. And it's a really you know haunting episode from American history one that I think is really resonant today and when I mentioned award winning critically acclaimed what have you. I mean. This is a serious that in in the hands of Leon Nathan then joy Anderson has just been really amazing and I've had so much fun working on it and that that leads into our other announcement the host of season three of slow-burn slates Joel Anderson is going to be with us every week from now on staff Steph and I think I speak for both of us when I say that Joel is one of our favorite people to talk to about sports or anything else and we're so excited to have him because our third panel on hang up. So why don't we say hello to him because he is here today. Joe Welcome to the show. We are so psyched to have you joining us. Oh that's all with that thank you. That was really nice to hear from all the way out here in California. Yeah Man I'm excited. This is exactly where I wanna be exactly what I want to be doing. And we just couldn't contain contain Josh. She had to step out from behind the curtain to do season four. So I'm even more excited to see what not more excited. I'm excited to do this. I am to see with Josh Jesuit Season Four. Because I think it's going to be great. Thanks man and Joel is going to be doing writing and podcasting suffer slate. Going forward and and the big into was so amazing and there's going to be alive. Were coming up in February and now that jaw. You're on hang up. We will be promoting the hell out of the lifetime. We would be doing it anyway. But Oh you guys were holding over my head until I joined. I'll tell you where you're going to be. Yeah we're going to start the first left show in DC on February fifth the next day go to New York on the sixth. And then we'll come out to the west West Coast where I bet February eleventh in La in February thirteenth in San Francisco. And they're just might be a show in Austin for some festival thing that happens down on their March Still working out details but to stay tuned and we might be done there for my my native Texans slate dot com slash. Live as where you find out about that. And and get tickets Stefan. I would have to say that one of the biggest things I'm excited about on this show. Now the goal is here with us for the long haul is that that my friends is as big of a college football fan as I am so you can just sit back. Relax let us talk about. LSU's forty two twenty five win over. Clemson I was in the superdome for it in the press box and I was happy confessed. I was raising my fingers. Enjoy so says not to violate the prohibition on cheering in the press box you weren't worthy to people that was cheering for shrunk. When he came into the I heard about that story in the press box but I was very loudly seething but but now but this was the culmination of objectively one of the greatest the seasons in college football history? LSU Had the most points of any team ever in the AP poll era. I believe and this was Clemson. Paul is the best defense in college football this year and Lsu and Joe Bro put up as they've put up all year record passing numbers and that Forty two twenty twenty five win so you are definitely dispassionate. And not fake dispassionate. So what can you tell me and us about Lsu and their victory. I think you know what's a testament to how good Lsu was this season in particularly last night is that there was a point in the third quarter while felt sorry for Clemson which is which is unbelievable. They're on a twenty nine game winning streak. You know they beat Ohio state team. That was as good is any I saw in the country all year right in in late in the third quarter of like. Oh clemson doesn't have it and I mean think about this. Lsu Put up six hundred twenty yards scored forty two points on Clemson. That's still thought they did pretty good. All Things considered which just shows you that. LSU's offense is just totally changed. Like I guess the scale for what we think is possible with offense like it used to be that you could win a game in college football. You know rolling four hundred yards. That was a lot of yards in a game and like they almost had that by like I think like halftime or something like that it just would would just say about this as objectively one of the best teams in college football history. It's hard to think that that's not true looking at the statistics in the way that they play. Because this is almost. Don't even tell the story it's the W- it's like looking at them seeing them. See Joe Berle escaping from pressure throwing it up to Jim Arches in Jefferson borough handing off to cloud Edward C. They're like it's just really difficult to imagine what couldn't offense due to be better than what. Lsu was this year even talked about the defense but they just weren't the most unstoppable applicable force. I've seen in college football history and Clemson just unfortunate league for them ran into a buzzsaw. I don't think there's anything they could have done differently. That would change the outcome. What struck me is that it felt like Lsu had the best offensive players on the field at every position? My Far Clyde Edwards Hilar- was was fun and like Barry Sanders last night. He was ploughing people over Randy. MOSSES chugh didn't even mention scored two or was it three touchdowns I lost count. The wide receiver core seemed to be three inches taller and two steps faster than anyone that Clemson was able to put on them. It it really felt like a a mismatch which is crazy in a championship game against the team that had lost in what two years I mean it feels I like that. In retrospect but the feeling very stressed out partisan you know you have to remember clemson was ahead seventeen to seven. LSU had not had a ten point deficit set all year. There is so much talk going into the game about Brent Venables the clemson defensive coordinator and his wizardry with scheme and how he's able to confuse views opposing offenses quarterbacks and offensive coordinators. And that certainly was true for the first three series of that of the game. LSU punted three consecutive times which. This is the first time they had done that all year. They're also playing really well with field position. Lsu was pinned deep every time. And so you know it did not look like Lsu she was indomitable and unstoppable and that it was a pure talent mismatch. And so. I think you have to give credit to burrow and to you know job Brady and Stevens winger the offensive coordinators and to the other players as well for they didn't just go out and totally dominate from. I'm the jump. And they didn't have necessarily they might have looked like had superior athletic ability but clemson defense is amazing and great athletes and they did adjust and they figured it out and then they started to roll and pour it on and look like they couldn't be stopped. I mean the thing that was so telling to me is that Clemson Clemson came in their corners. Really touted Joel and Joe Borough talked after the game about like. I couldn't believe they were playing man to man against your Martinez. Who's like you know? The BELINDA cough winner best receive around the country and he said he was so disbelieving that he wouldn't even throw to chase on the first couple of series because he thought they must be disguising something or trying to trick him then. It turned out that that's really what they were doing. They put AJ Terrell. Who's going to be a high enough? NFL draft pick on chase birds. Like all right. I'm just going to throw into tomorrow chase. Every every time he had more than two hundred yards and all of these long plays and I think the point there. Is You know as you said in your first answer. There is really no way to stop this team when you have five guys going out on routes every time who are among the five best pass catchers in the country with a quarterback who is unbelievably accurate and mobile and is also extremely good at diagnosing. What defenses are doing? It was only a matter of time keeping with the narrative where LSU is not dominant athletic force and if they did have to fight and work to win this it is worth remembering that these are all disparate parts that Lsu. Let's you put together the right if we went back three years ago and said Hey Joe Borough Clyde Edwards healer Dhamar Chase like. Are you going to be able to dominate college. Football with Jessica Jason Jefferson was a two star. LSU beat out Kansas to get your mar chase. Joe Boroughs. Other option was Cincinnati when he was looking at transfer from Ohio state and lost Out to Dennis Haskins Clyde t layer. I mean he did get a scholarship to Lsu but like nobody would have thought that he was on the level of various guys the guy who preceded him at Baton Rouge Catholic in Lsu. So yeah I mean this is all a testament to like the work that Lsu put in and their ability to put people in the right place and we haven't even brought up Joe Brady. They vary youngest systems. They brought in from the New Orleans. Saints who you know kind of revamped their offense and made them into the unit that they are. Today it's really a testament to like I mean I know there's a sound corny but but it's really a testament to the idea of reinvention teamwork in work ethic Because none of this was given and if you go back to you know early September when Lsu was barely edging out Texas at home a Texas team. We later found out. Wasn't all that good and then you go to what we saw last night. Obviously you know a lot of things to come together and LSU's responsible notable for a lot of that and even you know if you do have really amazing players. They have to play well. I mean it's been all thing to say but Trevor Lawrence it's not like that came discredited him in any way. I thought that he made really good plays at various points during the game and he looked really scary. If you were rooting against inst- clemson. But he didn't have a good game. I mean by his admission by Dennis weenies in Michigan. He had all of those overthrows whether it was just because he was a little bit off off whether it was because Lsu was doing something but he just didn't play well and in every game this year and then in the SEC championship game and how Obama game and the semi against Oklahoma and against Clemson job road didn't have a bad game barely had a bad series all year. A and you know he's twenty three years old his fifth year in College. One of those was a redshirt year. He's a grad transfer already graduated from Undergrad. He only takes classes online. He goes to the Facilities Professional Football College football player and and at the dome. And what kind of walking walking around New Orleans with all the number nine juries with jerseys with borough in the various in the Cajun spelling in the Conventional Ohio. One you you know this guy. Could've you know John Hawkes Documentary About College Football History of college football. He talks about. Yeah you know they talked about how Johnny Manziel may ten million dollars licensing his name and likeness am borough could have cleared that maybe more with With inflation I mean this guy is a professional. You know college kind of worked for him in the sense that he made himself incredibly famous and worked his way up to being the number one pick in the draft he should have been compensated. Aided more along the way or compensated at all along the way but this is a guy who used to college system and Lsu definitely benefited. More more from Joe Probing in college than Joe Borough benefited from being in college. But he's you know somebody who spends if you have a guy who's that talented Ted who spends all of his time working on football with great coaches and has great receivers like this is what can happen guy that I certainly for one before this year didn't I didn't know was that talented. And maybe because of the situation he ended up with at Ohio state. Or maybe the fact that he wasn't able to be a one hundred percent full-time college good football player professional slash college football player. Who guys also just get better? and He's twenty three years old. Then that makes a difference to the difference between a twenty year old quarterback and at twenty only three year old quarterback or any athlete is enormous in terms of intellectual development emotional development and physical development. So Joe Burrow. You're right Josh. It's just sort of the embodiment of how to make a flawed system work to your advantage. Well also the transfer system you know. This was the year. Where three gotta the four quarterbacks in the semi finals where transfers and that allowed borough to get out of a situation you know this idea of commitment and college football? You're committed but it got him. It allowed him to get out of a place where he wasn't going to be able to show his talents and get to one where he would without having to sit out a a year. And I think you know at least a positive step in this all. NCAA thing is that there is now. I think less people. Don't look at scans at that. AH troglodyte Nick commentators. I think appreciate and respect the fact that burrowed and Jalen hurts and you know maybe people are Carl little bit less forgiving adjust fields. But you know that it's okay to do that. Yeah and there's less tisco testing. I think in that end in in the idea that we should be sympathetic to to players who are not getting compensated for playing in college sports back to the to the age difference. I'm Trevor Lawrence's twenty come on over. He he outplayed to a ridiculous degree when he was a freshman last year. I mean how much more does this guy need emotionally and physically develop appease already he already should be in the NFL he already should be in the NFL but the fact that he'll have one more year you know it's not a benefit he should be going to the NFL now obviously he. He is good enough to do that. Yeah I mean. The person that exemplifies that the most is to himself. I mean we got a guy you know should have been able to leave after his sophomore year to write and then he stayed just long enough to get hurt in slightly tarnishes like draft tinsel like that's the big fear because that's the game plan for Every College Defense and two thousand twenty next next year right. We gotta get Trevor Lawrence Out of the game. We gotta hurt him. And that's not. That's not a good situation that's something that he would face the NFL but at least presumably he'd be getting paid or I paid more. We I mean the only thing that could stop. LSU This year was Joe Borough getting hurt in at the end of the second quarter when he got nailed on. One of those touchdown passes to Thaddeus Moss. It looked like that was coming to pass. You know he sat on the sidelines. Debates don't touch me. He came out early after halftime to ride an exercise sized bike to get Lewis. I mean he got nailed in the arm and in the ribs and a smart. I'm not I don't think that they were trying to hurt him. But but you need to get hits on a quarterback like that in order to either make them skittish or make them change the game plan to get the ball out faster. That's a great point. Join jaw not only. Are you putting yourself at risk and kind of a notional sense. You're putting yourself at risk because the other team is trying to her you right very and Trevor Lawrence took one hit that. ESPN showed in repeated. Slow motion that was the kind of coil type hit. He got hit in the midsection and his neck and head just went bobblehead and did that affect them. Maybe it did. I mean that was I think in the third quarter but it was a brutal hit. And and it's it's impossible to know how those kinds of collisions affect a player's near-term ability to do what they're supposed to do with the highest level so I went on the fields after the game at Joel's urging Joel May at my college football reporting Sherpa I got the experience of doing a lot of these these big games and one of the really cool things as somebody who's followed. LSU My whole life is seeing Devon white the great linebacker hugging Derek Stanley. The freshmen this year. You had the great quarterbacks from Lsu Davis Way Greedy Williams were all. All they're like you know congratulating their friends and revelling in Jarvis Landry and Michael Clayton to other great receivers from Lsu. And and I feel there's this idea of like playing for your school and brotherhood that can be sold in a pernicious way. NCAA wise. That's all you I need. And that's why we provide. And how could you dare ask for any more than that but you know Joel is somebody who did play college sports and and somebody you know you still feel a connection to Tcu where you went emotionally like it's real and it's legitimate and to see that between the players it's not phone ear fake out so it's like they love their experience there and their friends with the guys on the current team and that's kind of cool to say. Yeah it's like a friend so you know it's like a fraternity and I remember you know last year when they had the championship game out here in Santa Clara right near San Jose and Clemson one and into Shawn Watson and Beyond Hopkins and Ray Roy McLeod and all these other former Clemson. Grapes are just waiting and hanging out with the players. And you can't fake that like so to to the extent that there is some value to the amateur experiences that Oh like they're all together coordoned-off and they're on this mission together and it's really hard to break that bond like they always sort of hold that so I always you know like I I you know I I don't I don't think that's bullshit. I think that that's something that's actually really important in a big part of football college the College football experience because it's not the same whenever guys go onto pros like you hear them talk about. It's never it's never quite what it was like. I don't think you know Ob J. will be going back to the giants if they if they play in the Super Bowl next year in hand out. Hand out money to Sterling Shepard. Whoever he the whoever else is there for the giants next year right so he would only do that for Lsu? I don't think the giants are going to the next year. I just WANNA say that's too. He went up. You welcome on the sideline. Even I would imagine so. Yeah that probably is not the best analogy all right. y'All we're going to easy when to this whole hang up in less than okay. I've never done this before. Please be gentle one segment this week. We'll have you back for the bonus. Random talk somewhere football there but then three segments next week and in perpetuity. Does that sound. That sounds good. Man Looking forward to it in the long history of baseball certain objects define an era and stir fans souls. The partially smoked cigar left behind by Babe. Ruth at Philadelphia Brothel in one thousand nine hundred twenty four. The first contract signed by Jackie Robinson with the Brooklyn dodgers in nineteen forty seven the potato that minor league catcher Dave Bresnahan through into left field in one thousand nine hundred eighty seven the bottle of Andrew Esteem Dione that AP reporter. Steve Will Stein spotted in mark. mcgwire's locker in one thousand nine hundred ninety eight to that list. Let us now add the garbage can on on which the Houston Astros banged during their world series winning two thousand seventeen season to alert hitters whether the opposing pitcher was about to throw a fastball. Or an an off speed pitch the scheme which also involved a center field camera and cell phones was revealed in November by Ken. Rosenthal and Evan Drellich of the athletic and it claimed its first casualties on Monday. Major League. Baseball Commissioner Rob Manfred suspended Houston general manager. Jeff Liu now and manager. Aj Hinch for the twenty two thousand nine season Strip the team of first and second round draft picks in twenty twenty twenty twenty one and find at the maximum five million dollars. Shortly after the announcement astros owner Jim Crane fired Lou now and hinch. ESPN baseball writer. Jeff Passan broke the news of the punishments. He joins US now now. Hey Jeff Hello Gentlemen how are you. We are well a lot to discuss here. Let's start with the penalties in his nine. Page statement. Manfred said the Astros conduct raise questions questions about the integrity of games and while it is impossible to determine whether the cheating impacted the results on the field the perception of some that it did cause significant harm harm to the game on the one hand the scope of the punishments is unprecedented. Manfred came down hard on a corporate culture in Houston that fostered illicit behavior on the other hand. No players were sanction and you can argue as many people are arguing that the astros might have stolen a world series. What needles was rob Manfred? Trying to thread here he who is trying to thread every needle imaginable. He was trying to thread the needle of sanctioning one of his thirty bosses in Jim. Jim Crane the owner of Houston Astros. He was trying to thread the needle of coming down hard enough on the astros that rest. Most of major league baseball whether it is executives managers coaches or players see the punishments and say. We are not going to do that but he was also so trying to thread the needle to do it so that the public has its faith restored in a game in which two of the last three world series champions are accused accused of cheating. I do not in any way envy rob Manfred and the very precarious dance. He had to do here but but I also think there are some spots where he failed and I think particularly. There's an undercurrent of I don't know of angers the right word but Disappointment among ownership outside of Houston in the way that Jim Crane was dealt with in the fact that while the Constitution of baseball says he can find him only five million dollars. A five million dollar fine for a billionaire is like a dollar fine for us. I mean it's just nothing and it's going to do nothing to dissuade owners or teams from saying. Hey why don't we go and do this. Because if the price of a world championship is a couple of heads rolling doing some draft picks and five million dollars every single owner in baseball will say I'll pay that crane did seem a little bit shamed and chastened and his press conference and I was surprised that he fired hench and Lou. Now you know in the Saints Bounty Gate thing happened. They stuck by sean pain after he got the year suspension. So there's precedent for you know not firing a coach and in this situation it doesn't strike me is something that crane necessarily had to do and so It felt significant that he took that step. And you know Jeff you might argue that every owner would accept the penalty but it didn't seem like crane was happy or felt felt validated. It seemed like he felt ashamed. I you know. I've seen the way that the Houston Astros. Jim Crane have operated in the past and and I go back. Let's go back to October. And the Brandon Taubman situation and Jim Crane is the owner of this team. That puts out this absolutely hampered statement Going after Stephanie APP. Seen the reporter from sports illustrated for writing a completely truthful the full story and so jim cranes public posture on certain things. I don't tend to take at face value. I guess the question is how much distances there between crane and now who is really responsible and these incidents and it was if we are going to criticize Manfred it is extremely inconsistent to say that Liu now bears responsibility for everything that everyone under him was doing but the crane bears no responsibility for everything that anyone was doing underneath him. Couldn't have Put it any better and and the farcical the I think the most farcical part of this his that rob Manfred very clearly and explicitly stated. This was a player driven scheme. With the exception of Alex. Cora of course a player driven scheme in which players ended up getting suspended. I mean Ed this this just enlist I understand why no players got not suspended because the easiest route for baseball to punishment into trying to wrap up this very ugly and Sordid added chapter of its history was too disciplined. People quickly and quick disciplined came via this memo that Manfred sent out September fifteenth. Two thousand seventeen and this memo said that if there is illicit use of technology by a team and the general manager and manager will be held responsible responsible and that is exactly happened in this situation. You didn't see anybody else get disciplined. You're probably going to see Alex Cora Because as of his time as manager of the Boston Red Sox and what he did as bench coach of the Houston Astros end up wearing it awfully hard and probably lose his job because that was a bit right and Manfred said in the statement that he gave players immunity in order to testify and Manfred also knew that any punishment of players was gonNA. It'd be litigated by the Union. And he also said he couldn't determine which of them did what and I've been trying to sort of sort through what would be ed more draconian or or more appropriate level of punishment. I mean what what can baseball do what could not rob Manfred. Had done. Sure he could have suspended the owner the way George Steinbrenner was suspended for life and returned a few years later. But what can you do hear stripped the championship. I mean I don't think it's give them extra losses I mean you know you can't do. What soccer dozen Europe like demote the team to the minute you could ban them from signing free agents? You could do that. Maybe you could count fifty million bucks against the luxury tax. I'm not saying they should do that. I'm just saying that's a mechanism that is very common in international soccer right. They think we're Manfred. Had A real problem Jeff. Is that if you go too far. You are indicting your own sport in a way that you're not right now by giving out these suspensions that lead to firings of one general manager and one field manager. Yeah I think that's a that's a very fair and reasonable. Appoint on the balance that Manfred strike the needle that he had the threat. However you WANNA put it? I do think though that the clearest path for him to take to hold everybody including Jim Crane accountable would have been a fine. That was larger than five million dollars that's the most laughable part of this whole thing and I understand that he would be expanding his powers by doing that. But what this does is it. Reinforces the notion. That Rob Manfred is a commissioner who is beholden to the owners that every commissioner in every sport. It's not raw manfred Manfred. Yeah I listen. I know that was what the response was going to be. And that's fair but can you give me another situation or another sport. That has had something like this. This where the commissioner hasn't stepped up and been draconian I mean don't you think Roger Goodell. The case of spy gate in the suspension of Tom Brady was taking draconian measures. And eventually you know it got walked back but at least he endeavoured to do something like that. I think the best analogy here is how David Stern handled Tim. Donaghy situation where he pretended like it wasn't actually a problem where he got up and explain that it was just one guy in elite. Didn't actually have this this problem and he just kind of convinced everybody that the League was was clean at had done everything right and and it was like total bs but everybody bought it because stern was such a wizard at a public relations. And that I think is getting to Stephen's point is is that Manfred wanted to paint. And I think everybody's willing to to buy because staffers are so heated. This was a rogue organization. And I think where I want this conversation ago and I'm interested in both of your takes. It's like this is obviously bad for baseball. Have the story out there but the the actual crime the quote unquote crime even if Manfred cinema or whatever. Everybody is stealing signs. Everybody has stolen signs and baseball baseball since baseball was invented. So even if you think that what. The Astros did was worse than typical science dealing. It's a matter of degree. It's not like they were doing anything being so extraordinarily awful and so I think the reason these yeah. Are you really trying to say. Hey that stealing signs from second base and touching your kneecap to let a hitter no that fast balls coming as equivalent to banging on a trash can to let them know literally every pitch that's coming and not only in a trash can but using the best available technology not the trash Ashdown and and doing it basically your they were exploiting the extension of video video into the game itself that Major League Baseball adopted in two thousand fourteen. I mean they major league. Baseball gave teams approval Russell to put replay rooms ten feet from the dugouts. This was a slippery slope. Manfred deserves to be criticized for not recognizing the potential for exploitation of technology. Here so I do think worse than you weren't the giants tipping every pitch in the nineteen fifty one world series. Yeah they were trying to is this. How is this new? Like it doesn't change my belief about the nature picture of you know whether you call it cheating or I would call a cheetah it doesn't change my view of how teams are cutthroat and are are. We're trying to win. This is not make me disillusioned about the sport or at. You know it's GonNa be punished and it should be punished but this idea that the integrity of the game has been breached and some unprecedented way doesn't carry them water with me. I don't know man. A team like won the world series in a year in which chick was cheating. But I I don't I don't know how much more plain and simple it gets. Then that and I want them to lose the world series though hypocritical. I don't want them to get the world series vacated because I feel like that is whitewashing history and this is taking us into an entirely different scope of conversation whether it's with. PD's in the way that baseball has tried to whitewash history or in college football and the shameful whitewashing history with vacation of titles. But that that's a whole nother podcasts. For another time I think that ultimately what we're going to look at here is that the astros were part of a culture that had grown in baseball where it was left unchecked for a long time him and the players. I think got different ideas of what Actually do in the the moral ethical breaks. That were there for a long time in just got cut in when that happened. I think all of a sudden you you start saying to yourself. Will you know this is okay and were winning. And we're going to keep doing this. I was talking with a longtime general manager last night. And we're talking about the the quandary said you know I've asked myself like what if I knew this was going on. I would like to think I think that I would have stopped it but what I have if we were winning if we were succeeding if this was working I again. I'd like to think that that I wouldn't but if I'm being honest with myself now I probably would have gone right along with it. Let's spin this forward a little bit. Jeff Tom Verduci. In sports illustrated reported that Astros Personnel Canal told Major League baseball investigators about eight other teams that they believed were using technology to steal signs in two thousand seventeen two thousand eighteen in in that time period. In addition to Alex Cora the manager of the Red Sox who's clearly neck-deep unless is going to face a large punishment. Do you think that they're going to be other shoes to fall here. Yeah I think the Red Sox are actually going to get hammered a lot worse than people realize because what they did was a lot closer. I think think to what Josh was talking about. What the Astros did the red sox used video to decode sign? Sequences told players on the bench. And if if you reach second base you could look in their figure it out and tip off the the hitter that's like old school subterfuge right there with a little technological twist and yet you go go back in in the original sin here or at least. The original thing that was caught was in August. Two thousand seventeen. The Red Sox used an apple. Watch to relay signs due to their bench against the New York Yankees the Yankees reporter them for Major League Baseball came five them and it was a pretty piddling fine in the grand scheme of things things and the red SOx said no sir. We won't do that again. And then the next year they went out not only did it but one world championship while doing it. So running afoul of this. This take that had been in place since September fifteenth two thousand seventeen and doing it so brazenly blatantly. I think the RED SOX ARE GONNA lose a lot of graphics. I think there's is a chance that they're going to lose international money and I think ultimately they're going to need new manager. What about other teams? Jeff I think that Major League baseball fall is in defense mode right now. I think that the only way other teams get investigated are if the EH reporters whether it is from. ESPN the athletic or any other media outlet. Find out something that happened and write about it because I don't think rob Manfred wants to go looking for what's actually out that remember. I was down at the owners meetings in Arlington Texas. This year I remember rob Manfred standing standing there in a hard hat at the new stadium. Everyone looked completely ridiculous in the commissioner was standing there talking about how he believes. This was just one team. He was only going to be looking into the Astros. And I think that right there showed what the Mo for Major League Baseball here has been they want to button this thing up as quickly as they possibly can and the fact that they have to look into the red sox right now is an enormous inconvenience. It's because of more teams that get implicated. The more this looks like something that was sport wide which it clearly an obviously was the ashes and the red sox happened to be the only one so far to get caught and have the evidence strong enough to go on right about them. I remember when the saints thing came out there were are all these stories about how other teams had had downey systems. There were there were leaks and if I know our friends at the Astros like I think I do they. We'll probably be Trying to get that story out out into the the world that You know if they do have evidence that other teams were doing it we might. I just see that evidence in the press and I did just want to circle back to Manfred report because the most striking thing in it was the way that he connected affected the science dealing to the brain and Talmon incident to the Astros culture and on the one hand. You could argue that. That's command Fred and Major League baseball trying to just focus on astros when maybe this is a more sport wide issue but there was I guess it felt kind of of satisfying to see the Astros get called out and that way and to see them be criticizing damned for having this organizational culture. That would abandon the kind of behavior that happened in the locker room that happened. You know the Stephanie Epstein wrote about and the behavior that that would then have astros tried to explain it away and cover it up and so I appreciate that I appreciate it too and I thought Larry as part was when when Jim Crane was asked about it and said quote. I don't agree with that when the when the remembered in at certain points points in this report I think took principled stances and I appreciated that because you know trying to trying to balance placating one of your bosses as with getting the the truth in reality out. There is a very difficult thing to do. And when you talk about an organization's culture is being quote unquote problematic automatic and blaming it on quote in environment that allowed the conduct described in this report to have occurred. That's awfully damning right there and and it just backs up a a lot of what I've reported. What Evan Drellich reported what Stephanie? Accidents reported about the Astros who they are and how they've operated for the longest time they have have done it with impunity. Because you know what they did really well. They built a really good baseball team. And when you build a really good baseball team least in their minds it allows allows you to act in a particular way and that particular way was a lot of times unbecoming in. I think it is fair and reasonable to say that that's sort of Hubris that they developed over the years absolutely can be linked hand in hand to what went on Jeff Passan covers baseball for ESPN. We're always happy UPI to have him on this podcast. Jeff thank you for helping us understand the Astra scandal. Better Gentleman always happy to be out in this podcast. Thank you for having me before. We talked to Dan Amber about his amazing piece about the rape allegation against the New York mets players from the nineteen ninety s wanted to let you know that in our bonus segment for slate plus members. Josh Joel and I will talk about Lamar Jackson Derrick Henry and other stuff from the NFL playoffs last weekend. If you want to hear that and you're not a member you can sign up for slate plus for just thirty five dollars for the first year you can do that at slate dot com slash clash. Hang up plus last year. Dan Ingram came across a passing reference to an incident involving his favorite baseball team. A long ago allegation about rape at New York mets spring training the names of the accused players Dwight. Gooden Vince Coleman and Daryl Boston would come out in March nineteen ninety-two the next month. The prosecutor in Florida announced that no charges would be brought against any of them and after that the story was pretty much forgotten. I'm a mets fan. Like Dana's and neither one one of US remembered it in a piece published on slate on Sunday night. Dan Looks back at the investigation. The way it was covered by the press and what happened to the alleged victim gutting story in a deep one it touches on what we remember in what we don't and why and it's especially powerful to read it now as we're going through a societal reckoning being about sex and power because Dan rates reckoning of justice sort seemed on the verge of happening almost thirty years ago joining us now from our New York. Studio is Dannenberg Mbare. Hey Dan thanks for being here for having me before we start Dan. I want to say this is a really tough subject. It's tough to report on. It's tough to talk about and presumably to here. As as well it's also important to reiterate the none of the three players were ever arrested or charged in connection to the case. Good and Coleman both said in response to requests for comment from slate that this is a totally false accusation. Boston declined to comment. And they also want to note that the alleged victim Tim died in two thousand twelve and since she never expressed a willingness to have her name publicly attached to the story Dan you chose to refer to her by a pseudonym that Sudan. Being being Cindy Powell so Dan WanNa you start by telling us her version of events. What Cindy policy happened short? So Cindy Powell and early March nineteen. ninety-two flew down to port. Saint Lucie Florida from her home in New York City and went into the police station. She turned over a semen stained dress and she told a story about what had happened her a year before also imports eight Lucy at met spring training wing. She said that she'd been at a nightclub. She met their three mets players to I couldn Daryl. Boston Vince Coleman. They'd hung out for bid at the club. Then then Coleman and Boston had taken off. They had implied they were going. Who may be a different bar a different party or something and Gooden had asked her for a ride home home or rather he had said he was stock and she offered him a ride home? She drove him home when they got there. Coleman and Boston were there in the living room playing Nintendo she. She said she felt uncomfortable. And ask for a glass of water. At which point she was just GonNa go home good and she said started pulling her into his bedroom saying he wanted to talk to her her. She got away and tried to leave the house at that point she said Coleman and Boston were behind her and sort of Heard her into the bedroom whereupon she said she was raped by the three of them for several hours and then she left sheep. She by her story. She you kissed two of the mets players. Good night she made the bed and she went back to the house she was staying with her mother and That was it and and that was a year before she came forward to the place down. Did she say why it took a year to come forward to the police at the time. It was obviously obviously a very difficult thing for anyone to do. These are public figures. These were superstar athletes. The mets were still sort of the darlings of the New York media at the time. This was one of the things that was held against her in both media and by the police according to your reporting sure and when the prosecutor in Florida finally Lee after several weeks of investigation declined to press charges. I mean that was one of the first things he brought up the fact that it had taken her so long to make this this formal statement to police he said I mean this would have been part of the defense and And he suggested that this would have been part of an insurmountable defence for the prosecution now. She didn't wait a year to say I've been raped. She waited several days so she went home that night. I went back to the place where she was staying in Florida. Arte and she a few days later would go back to New York City and it was only upon her return to New York City a few days after the incident that she was having glass of wine aligned with a friend of hers and talking about her experience in Florida and by her description. That's when she and this is almost a direct quote from her. She realized she was raped so there was a delay before she was sort of identifying as a victim of sexual assault. That delay was not actually a full year. It was a few days as and then there was a many months. where she you know was telling people that she had been raped but was very reticent about coming forward? She made several phone and calls to the Port Saint Lucie police over the months to come but she would always kind of get up right up to the line. She would start to say what had happened but then she wouldn't want to name the players she she wouldn't want to give her name now. Part of what was going on right at this moment was the same exact night that she said she'd been raped by three mets players. woman named Patricia Patricia Bowman had while I think we can say had sex with William Kennedy Smith at the Kennedy compound just a few miles away from the nightclub where aware Powell had met the mets players and that turned into a rape allegation and in a very high profile rape trial. William Kennedy Smith was acquitted Patricia Bohm's name was revealed to the public in the New York Times and elsewhere and her reputation really trashed. I mean all the stuff came out about her drug doug use her history of abortions her. You know her so-called wild streak as the Times reported it so we know that Powell was watching this trial unfold and I think we can infer that. She found a terrifying. That the idea of coming forward against the powerful family in the Kennedy Smith case but coming forward against a you know the powerful institution the New York mets it must have been terrifying so for months you know. She's watching this unfold and there were other rape cases happening right around this time but it wasn't until a year later that she finally felt like this was something she wanted to do and had to do one of the most. I think important and invaluable things about this piece. Dan is how you are able to situate the story of this allegation in particular time. You mentioned Chan's the Patricia Bowman William Kennedy Smith Case. There was also Mike Tyson getting convicted of rape around this time. And also the Clarence Thomas hearings hearings where Anita Hill came forward and talked about her allegations of being sexually harassed in the workplace and this felt lake a time like the time time. We're going through now. Like a reckoning like a period in which something was changing about how sexual assault was perceived and talked about. There was a promise stare and I think a lot of people believe that there was a disappointment. And so can you speak to. I guess win. The accusation was has made it became public. How did it play out in the press? And in that era how was it talked about written about a sast right. Well it came out at this very particular killer moment so there were two at least two big things going on one. Was You know this conversation. If that's the right word societal shift that had sort of gotten fully underway with the Clarence Thomas hearings which were in the fall of nineteen ninety one so that was about six months after the alleged incident. GOODEN's house and may be you know six six months before Powell came forward so that was going on and a whole broader discussion of date rape that phrase was suddenly everywhere but then specifically typically there were these sports cases that were happening. You know as you said there was the Mike Tyson case which was unfolding at exactly this time and then there were other ones that we don't remember as as well today. The Mike Tyson was the most covered at the time. But there was also you know Kevin Mitchell was another former New York. Met who right around this time was accused of rape. Yep and no charges were ever filed and there was a case involving the Cincinnati bengals where women alleged that she'd been gang raped by something like a dozen players on the team at a party so there was just a lot of these things going on again. Nothing was ever proved hurt. No charges were filed in that case. Yes yes the only one where that I know of would there was The Mike Tyson case ended in a conviction but the other ones I mentioned there is no even charges filed but these things were being discussed and right at the the time that Powell came forward. I mean this issue was so live in the culture that if you go back and look at the TV what was on TV. He right then. I found an article from that month. Not doesn't mention this mets case at all but it does mentions how these sorts of stories like date rape stories. Were all all over. TV It was kind of a trend piece in the New York Times by the TV columnist. About how this show in that show and the other show every show has date Rada date rape episode now there is an La they law episode. That I watched that aired in the midst of the mets investigation. That was about a professional baseball player. who had been been accused of raping a female fan and the way it plays out? It's like this is an off the news thing about the mets story. But it's not I. I talked to the woman who wrote that episode and she said Oh no no. This was just something you know that was on our minds. I mean just the fact that you had. TV shows about professional baseball players being accused of rape in a very similar way. I think just that sort of speaks to the broader context of how these sorts of stories were everywhere at that point and when this became public the New York media particularly the tabloid media of course was all over it. How was it covered in New York? I mean up until then the that's from their World Series Championship team in one thousand nine hundred six. I'd always been portrayed as the sort of fun loving bunch of Rascals who got drunk on complains and insulted reporters and we're up to shenanigans in the bullpen was this different. Didn't mark a different tone and did it linger in any way. Okay so there are so many things going on at once that you know sort of parallel lines in what's happening in sports and the media at this point so there's this background story about confronting date rape in confronting sexual assault in a sports context. Then there's the story the of the mets now the mets had been you know this beloved team in the late eighties that kind of a hard partying as you say that you never quite fulfilled their promise by the early nineties. They were a bunch of overpaid assholes. I mean this is just the the the way they were covered and and especially by ninety one and ninety two. That's when things totally went south they had brought in and all of these so-called character guys to be on the team and then the scandals just got even more ridiculous. The ones that I remembered in place of this more serious one that I just wrote about where things like. Bret Saberhagen Sprang Bleach at the reporters in the clubhouse. Bobby Baena threatening to show. Oh Bob Klapisch the Bronx. You know stuff like that. That was just endless. Ron Of these just stories of the mets acting like jerks. And just how they were. Paul overpaid you know idiots like that was that was the way that those teams were covered and that was. I think enabled by the fact that the team was bad like. It's a lot harder archer to do that kind of adversarial coverage of the hometown team if you're the beat reporters when the team is winning the world series but by the early nineties they were just just bad so there was that shift in the coverage of the team in general then at the same time Magic Johnson had just sort of come out as being HIV positive and there was AH shift in the way the sex culture and the groupie culture around sports was being cupboard and there was a way it changed how the players themselves thought about the groupies Klapisch and John Harper have a book about the ninety two season. And they describe mets shortstop Kevin Elster. Who's kind of the pretty boy? Donwon one of the team. The one who most indulged in the groupie scene and they talk about how freaked out elster was by the Magic Johnson. News and how huge just like I have to totally we change you. Know he's talking Klapisch and he's saying he's not going to do any of this shit anymore. So that's another thing that's sort of like going on in the background just between ninety one and the night of the alleged incident in March Ninety two when Powell steps forward. The culture has shifted just in that narrow sense of sports culture. There's just so when she finally does come forward and make this allegation. The rules are different than they've been before. And there's tension there as the beat reporters trying to figure out how to cover it. They already have a bit more of an adversarial relationship with the team than they used to. And then the tabloids send down these General Simon I'm at reporters to cover this as a as it relates to these bigger social issues about sexual assault and suddenly there's conflict there and what eventually actually happened at met. Spring training camp is the mets just decided to boycott all media. They shut down the clubhouse and then that itself became a source of covered covered in the tabloids and elsewhere the mets you know media boycott and there is coverage of the conflict between the mets and the reporters so the one thing that's so striking mm-hmm and reading about the coverage is the absence of female journalists or when they're present how their president you write about how Keith Hernandez to beloved eighty six world series. Winning Mad Keith. Ryan has now calls. The Games wrote in a memoir in the mid eighties about parading Dakin through the clubhouse in front of female journalists like as a joke you know the sports writers who were with the team team every day. Don't seem to have taken the domestic violence accusations against Darrell Strawberry for instance. Seriously at all they made it at joke of it then the David Cone incidence the woman at the center of this case the woman who made the accusation had dated David Kahn. And then you know around this time mm Cohn himself is accused of rape. It's a story that we can get into next but cone again was not arrested or charged and then writers. Dan saw cone as the hero in this case and someone who would overcome something as somebody who had the greatest game of his life when he thought thought he might get arrested and it's played as this kind of Hero's journey for him. It's incredibly disturbing. Yeah so the cone rape allegation happened happened on the last day of the season in Nineteen ninety-one so in October and it was a story that lasted as a news event. It was like a three day story. Maybe it was unfolding exactly at the moment of the Clarence Thomas hearings so you know if you look at the newspaper covers back. Then there'd be like a big thank picture of Anita Hill and then a little box at the bottom. You Know David Cone Accused of rape. That went away almost immediately Philadelphia. Police decided that it was not a credible allegation and they dropped the case. And then as you say yeah cone that became part of the legend because while he was still under investigation you know. There's this this whole story behind the scenes that came out of how you know met's GM frank cash told him it's the last day of the season. Were not in contention. Wanted to just sit this one out and cone said you know no you gotTa let me pitch. And he went out there and he just pitched this like bonkers game. I mean I think it's a one hitter and struck out. Nineteen something like that and then stories were written about. How did you do it? What did you draw? It was like that kind of sports reporting about this thing. It was just totally assumed that this case was indeed totally without merit again. The police did drop brought. That gives an another thing. That's going on here that we should talk about is the way race played into all these stories so You know one might reasonably we ask why David Cohen was accused of rape in October. Nineteen ninety-one and you know. The case was dropped almost immediately by the police. And and then three black players on the mets Dwight. Gooden Vince Coleman and Daryl Boston were accused of rape just a few months later and it was just a massive story and you know taken very very seriously by the police in an investigation that unfolded over a number of weeks. I think that's worth considering to and and yet. The police in both cities ultimately chose not to attempt to prosecute years. Later you report that the Philadelphia Inquirer discovered that multiple accounts of accusations of sexual assault by women were rejected by the Philadelphia. Police Department. Out of hand there was even a nickname for the office. The lying bitches pitches unit. I was stunned when you interview. You did with one of the investigators in Port St Lucie Florida who who all these years later sort of rehashed. These suspicions that he had that ruled out attempting to prosecute the case that amounted wanted to nothing more than the sort of poor conjecture about what he thought may have happened and whether he could trust what she was saying and that seemed very little to do with physical evidence. Yeah he told me that in his opinion what was going on there was Powell had been jilted by David Cone Own. She wanted to make him jealous. She'd picked up. You know gooden and the other guy is at the nightclub and concocted this whole thing kind of to get cones attention. She made Google is at him he told you she made. Google is on him and you know one of the things. I found very striking from that interview. Was You know I mentioned that. This all unfolded on the same night and very close to to wear the William Kennedy Smith incident unfolded and I don't know to me learning learning about that in two thousand nineteen talking about in twenty twenty. I mean that's just speaks to first of all how prevalent these sorts of stories were at that moment that they we're finally coming out but more importantly the underlying issue of how prevalent these incidents might have been. So that's kind of my perspective on it but then talking to this detective detective. who had worked the mets case? He thought that the fact that these two things had happened on the same night was rather damning. was just evidence that you know they were one was a copycat happy cat claim of the other. And what are the chances so it just kind of I think shows how the same piece of information can be interpreted in radically different for ways depending on your priors about women's inclination to lie about such things perhaps Stefan Dan working as journalists back then and we are both fans of of the team and would read coverage and follow them just as kids. Who are interested in baseball? But you were working as a journalist year at the AP not at the time. What did this story kind of call to mind for you about this era about reporters and about sort of societal views about sexual assault in my memory of the case is yeah? I remember the accusations. I don't remember much of it in detail I wasn't I wasn't covering sports at the time but I did read the tabloids when I was living in New York so I don't have a stark recollection other than to put it in the context. Oh yeah all those mets were assholes and this was one more story that likely the in your mind has a high probability of truth and yet it was not being prosecuted. Because that's what often happened with athletes. What's that we overlook their their sins on the field and that our institutions are very bad at following up? And Look Clarence. Thomas was confirmed to the Supreme Court. Right William Kennedy Smith was acquitted. This was part of a pattern of the way our systems our institutions are systems jurisprudence. Didn't also seem to function and I'd be lying if I say I recall thinking like there's an injustice been done here but I probably just didn't pay that close attention to the details of this case and its conclusion and the thing down that really strikes me is that yeah. It reminded me that I was essentially ancient working adult at this time and I don't have a strong sense or song memory of of outrage about what had happened that we were inured to the way that sports and bigger institutions function in cases like these I think one thing that sort of complicates for me certainly looking back and situation complicates. What's the situation and what I think might have been complicated at the time? Was that when the prosecutor declined to press charges. It's not like he came out and said you know this was a false allegation. He came out and said this is an unwinnable case and I think that was a reasonable assessment of the evidence. I mean there were things as they were about this case that would have made it really tricky like the fact that it had taken her a year to come forward the fact that you know there were no other witnesses like. They're these were there. You know there were as a as a rape case it was kind of a stinker you know so I think and you see that in the coverage Ridge at a of the wrap up of this investigation. It's not like the you know. Even the tabloid columnists are saying. You know these mets are innocent. Let's move on. They're saying things things like this is really awful. Who knows? Let's move on. So what what I found. Maybe more outrageous was not the way the legal system handled handled it. Although some of the stuff we talked about with how the detectives investigating the case might felt about our alarming but the way that you know confronted with this tricky situation should wear this was perhaps an unwinnable case certainly in one thousand nine hundred eighty two it might have been an unwinnable case so it was dropped and then everyone just kind of said okay. Let's never think about it again and I don't think it was never think about it again because were all certain individually certain that this thing never happened but rather it's unpleasant you know. Let's play ball. You have to think about the fact. This was also the beginning of the baseball season. So there's for the sports writers at any rate there's like a propulsion to like. Let's put this. You know weird spring training stuff aside and now the games means something so yeah I mean there were those kind of post mortem columns on April Tenth Anthony April eleventh of Nineteen Ninety two and then by opening day. It's not even mentioned. Gooden pitched the home opener at Shea. And it's just like how did he look well He. He was pretty good but he took the no decision. Or whatever so like it just it evaporates. Meanwhile other stuff that had come out in that spring training you know some of these other tabloid stories about the mets acting like jerks or buffoons lived on so for example that same month of March nineteen. ninety-two allegations came out that David Cone had masturbated in front of female fans on two occasions. That story got the full tabloid treatment. There is a famous New York Post Headline Weird Sex Act Bullpen. That's one that I've now just talking about myself as a mets fan. I remember that vividly and when I think back on those teams weird sex act and bullpen is the first thing that comes to mind what I find again this I can only speak for myself but I thought it at the beginning of this project. I was like it's so crazy that I remember the cone masturbation stuff and that happened like two weeks into this massive massive story about the alleged rape and I just I like I one has been wiped from my mind completely. It's not like Cohn ever admitted that he did this quote unquote weird sex act in the bullpen has always said he he didn't do any quote quote unquote weird sex act in the bullpen. So but but for some re- like that was just an easier thing to talk about and you can see it in the in the columnists at the time to they. They were just uncomfortable after bill with this rape story because it was so awful and I think from their perspective who knows but the cone thing like. That's it didn't seem like anyone was really hurt that much. I guess there were no other repercussions on these players. Taken by the mets whereby Major League Baseball. But for Cindy Powell. The woman at the center of the case. This was her life life. How in your reporting Dan? What did you find out about how this affected her and what happened? Her will the experience of coming forward was devastating for her reporters knew who she was ause but her name was never was never published And that is not the case for some of the other people who came forward around this time as I said but she was hounded at at her place of work. She was followed to her appointments with her therapist. It was very very unpleasant And again it. It ended with no charges in the years that followed her friends. Tell me that you know and this is again. There's there's no way to know for sure but this is just what her friend said that she the change that Her life did not go well from then in terms of her mental health and she struggled for quite some time. She had a lot of tragedies unrelated to this in her family the death of her brother of the death of her biological father and then she died by suicide in two thousand twelve. It's impossible Dan. Santa draw a straight line between the incident and her death. We can't say that the one caused the other but in reading the story. It's just I am possibly the sad. And you know the fact that she was going through this struggle and had been erased that nobody really considered her to be a person whose story was worth airing or worth. Remember hanging the players You know I think as the decades have passed and I don't know if you agree with us Dan but the there's was just more kind of nostalgia for the Good Times that the mets had the the rowdiness victory is the world series. Then there are memories. He is of the bad times whether it was losing or off the field and so there is just this kind of glory and nostalgia that we attach to players. I and I think that's really how they're they're remembered as when they're at their best. I think the mets are almost a special case because the nostalgia has kind of have hoover up the good and the bad and created a mythology of those teams where their failings are are part of the epic story. Ory Of you know they should have won more world series. They should have been better but they got caught up in the eighties party culture. And the way the way Dwight. Gooden is thought fought like his teammate. Darrell Strawberry are are these tragic figures of New York Sports. The two of the all time greatest New York baseball players ever and yet they're careers were nowhere near as good could as they should have been and even today is still sometimes in the news for various drug arrests and such and It's it's kind of this This he he's a a sad story but it's a story kind of soaked in this nostalgia what it means to be a mets fan. And so I think you know even the bad stuff even as the bad parts of it are kind of told and retold what the fact that the bad stuff was really bad gets a race so it's not like we don't talk about the fact that you know these nets had all these run INS with the law. It's just that we say that and kind of smirk about it. It's like part of the the glory. Three years of the mets was how shitty they were so I think that is kind of a tragic part of this and another tragic part of it is is Powell herself. I mean her death in two thousand twelve was a few years shy of when to the extent that ninety one ninety two we kind of had this pro metoo moment where suddenly there. It was the idea that you could come forward and hold these powerful men to account on the kind of the the hope there wasn't realized but you know it it came back around and it came back around not so long after Pao passed away and I talked to some of her friends who were curious about how she would default about the news stories of the last few years and how she might have kind of reframe turn experience. The story is headlined. You guys are scaring me. A woman woman told police she was raped by three New York mets. They were never charged almost thirty years later I wanted to understand what happened. Dannenberg road at. We'll put it on our show page. Everybody should read it Dan. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me on now. It's time for after balls. Josh this was not. LSU's issues. I National Championship was it. It was not one in two thousand seven three. We're alive for that. It's the first one of the hang up and listen era true and what some people are calling the hang up and listen era and the third one of our lives or maze of the fourth one of my life. I'm not sure but at their first national championship in Nineteen Fifty Eight. And I don't think you were alive. I was not alive. Seven and nothing. They'd be Clemson in the sugarbowl. The only score pass from halfback halfback billy cannon to sophomore. Mickey Mangum Mangum. I am reading one of the smallest players on the team. Six one one ninety doesn't seem that small for Nineteen fifty-eight yeah not very small no no graduated from Lsu with a degree in petroleum engineering though is Very common so there are six completed passes says I believe in that game which is kind of a bad drive for Joe Borough also a thing to note about college football back then is it. Lsu won the national championship and the Clemson Seven. Nothing in the sugarbowl. Those things weren't related. They determined the national champion forest and Bowl Games. I was before the bullet totally sensible. The Ball System Link Games. Yeah it was just like a little bonus at the end to. They did it for fun just to so you think you'd get any extra injuries at the end of the year. Just a little little bonus round all right Stephane. What is your Mickey Mangum on twitter? The other day Listener Ryan Caulton back noted noted that bugged on Bogdonovich Utah Jazz scored thirty five points with zero rebounds assists blocks or steals in a game against New Orleans Josh you then reported that the NBA player to rack up more points with nothing in those other positive counting stat. Categories was Alan Houston of the Knicks in two two thousand who had thirty seven points impressive achievement. But let's talk about the totally inept performances player sue enter a game and do nothing. No points snow shots no free throws no fouls turnovers. You might be aware that this achievement is known as a trillion when the box score line shows one minute followed by a string of zeroes the first reference to the trillion. I was able to find a story by Mitch. albom in the Detroit. Free Press of April Eighteenth Nineteen Ninety Wendy album profiled to Pistons. Bench warmers Scott. Hastings and David Greenwood grabbed a sleeping bag. Fill the canteen album wrote we. We are headed for the end of the bench. Each of those last five words was capitalized. It isn't exactly the end of the world. Also capitalized. It's worse. Even even Columbus never looked for the end of the bench. I could do a whole after ball. About how bad the story is. But it's a little bit off point anyway. At one point in the story hastings in Greenwood talked about garbage time hastings recalled that he wants entered a game with twelve point eight seconds left and came out with eleven point. Six seconds left. Yeah I got what we called a trillion. He said a trillion album road yet. Hastings said that's when the box score reads one minute played followed by a row of Zeros. I got lots of those a trillion album road again and didn't follow up at all. Hastings said and or album type nine Zeros which would be a billion billion not a trillion. which as far as I can tell was the case in box scores of the day? Poetic License. Whatever but the rise of big box score led to an actual actual trillion twelve potential zeros field goals made field goals attempted three pointers made? Free throws made offensive rebounds total rebounds assists steals blocks turnovers personal fouls points. There's been even more box score. Creep over the years field goals three pointers and free throws attempted to pointers. Made and attempted. Did plus minus some boxes include minutes and seconds played which really messes up the Zeros aesthetic in any case the basic box score on ESPN NBA dot. com includes fifteen categories in a players control. So the QUADRILLE is the new trillion now a lot of players have recorded multiple trillions trillions in their career Jeb Bush ler of the one thousand nine hundred ninety s bowls had fifty five the former player Mark Titus now a writer and commentator has made sort of a career out of it. I think his twitter handle is club trillion but I wanted to find the most futile individual game performances the biggest trillions in NBA history. Fortunately originally historical searches on basketball reference. Show full minutes. And ignore plus minus they also include separate columns for two point field goals made and attempted that bumps us up to seventeen potential Zeros. which would be a hundred quadrille Ian for one? Minute played play ten minutes though and do nothing and it's a one followed by eighteen. Zeros the Nice Round Quintillo. Ian The QU- intil. Ian Is the new Quadrille Ian all right so now it's time to remember some guys who piled wild up. Zero's the record for minutes played while recording. Just one counting stat. Is Stan McKenzie of the Baltimore Bullets. Who On march eighth? Nineteen sixty eight played played nine hundred nine minutes and accumulated one and only one foul but there were only ten counting stats at the time which works out to a measly one hundred ninety billion and ten in the era our one stat champ is Kevin Gamble of the Celtics who on May Seventeenth nineteen. ninety-one played eighteen minutes and had one foul foul but that is not perfection for all eras. The dubious distinction of most minutes played with nothing at all to show for it in the box. Score that I was able to find belongs to Kenny of the Knicks. Sears was the fourth pick of the nineteen fifty five draft. He twice led the Nixon scoring but not on February fourth nineteen fifty-six fifty six against Syracuse sears. Played fifteen minutes and tallied no stats so fifteen minutes all-time mark but the NBA of nineteen fifty. Six of course didn't have three point shot. It didn't breakout offensive and defensive rebounds. It didn't tally steals blocks or turnovers so sears US fifteen is followed by just ten. Zeros rose a mere one hundred and fifty billion in nineteen seventy six Steve. Kubersky of the Celtics had thirteen minutes of bupkus in eleven categories. A one point three trillion in one thousand. Nine hundred eighty seven Keith. Star of the Bulls went fourteen minutes. Fourteen categories one point. Four Quadrille Ian Allan Level of the rockets. It's did twelve minutes in fifteen categories in one thousand nine hundred one a twelve Quadrille Ryan but still no Quinta Ilian and then I finally found it the high water mark the leader in the clubhouse the gold standard of null sucking void in modern. NBA Box score. History is twelve minutes with seventeen goose sags. A one point two Quin Chilean. It is a three way tie among Kenny. Walker of the Washington Bullets skywalker baby on December Eleventh Nineteen ninety-three Damon Jones of the Cavaliers on June seventh two thousand seven in Game One of the NBA finals. No less. Wow and Rishaad Vaughan of the bucks on January Fifteenth Two Thousand Sixteen. I should note here that the basketball reference box includes a final column called Game Game Score which is a stat created by John Hollinger Walker Jones and von each of course registered a game score of zero point zero which if view include that makes nine thousand nine hundred Zeros so the number to beat is not one point two Quin Chilean. It's one hundred and twenty million honorable mention to will Barton Tyrone Corbin Corbin Ricky grain. Gerald Mankins Walter. McCarty Quincy Pond. Dexter and Norman Powell all of whom have recorded a one hundred and ten Quinton finally finally a shout out to Joel. Anthony the Miami Center who tops the basketball reference list of an aptitude on New Year's Day. Twenty eleven against the trailblazers. Anthony Play eight twenty nine minutes twenty nine minutes and recorded fifteen zeros one turnover and four fouls a to Quin till nine nine hundred quadrille in one hundred forty. That's a big number. Just feels so right the Damon. John's the top doesn't it though. Little disappointed canny Walker on their love. Kenny Walker loves skywalker especially when he was a Knick Josh. What's your Mickey Mangum? So we are launching. I I mentioned the hang up and listen the era as we were starting our after ball segment and obviously extremely beloved and listeners and crucial period and the hang up and listen era was the Mike PESCA era of hang up and listen and a crucial component. At least part of the Mike Peschiera was the PESCA Trivia segment of hang up and listen. It was intense Carmen. The Great Carbon C would often win I and the hang up and listen trivia. PESCA would put a huge amount of time and effort and work and the glorious pesca brain and all of its synoptic firings things Carmen. See the James Hall Tower of Hanging Trivia. We should hang up and listen Trivia Tournament of Champions Cup I think it would just be three Carmen sees anyway as we welcome all into the fold I was thinking about back on the show back on Trivia and also on the fact that occasionally I will go to the website sparkle whole as pr which has quizzes and they have a bunch on sports and some of the quizzes are really good. Some of them are bad. Some of them are fine and some of them. Make you kind of feel bad about yourself either because you know a lot of useless crap or because it reminds you that your memory is getting getting really bad. So there's one one spark requires that I kind of want to put in your head to puzzle over while I talk about another one the first one Stephan as these are teams in the four sports leagues six in North America. Where the place name and the nickname start with the same letter? I'll give you one for free play. We could go at Seattle Seahawks as one they also included New Jersey Nets which was strange. And when you take with you typed in. That's the answer that POPs up is now the Brooklyn Nets which seems like it's kind of violates the spirit but there are one zero five six seven eight nine Thomas Twat sixteen of these in baseball basketball football and hockey where the place name and nickname start with the same letter and that does not include now the Brooklyn Nets. That's so I did that. I I missed a four in whatever the time span was so you can see if you can can be me. But then I was looking at another quiz Steph and there was. NFL fell leaders from two thousand fourteen. Minute ask you and like every category passing rushing you know sacks like everything just like type and as many of the leaders leaders as you can think of. This is from five years ago and the thing that struck me the most is like. Obviously you're not gonNA remember everybody. Both because who the hell remembers who had the most like fumble recoveries and two thousand fourteen but I could not think of out of the ten leaders in rushing yards. I got like three and it just shows I mean it's like it is it is about how like you know I. I don't particularly have a great memory for that stuff. It's hard to remember but also about the life span of running backs in the NFL. This is the showcase position or our weather showcase position in the sport. And you know the careers are so so ephemeral. The guys were superstars. Seem unstoppable. It just takes so little time for them to fade from the scene and you you know one of the guys I do remember is Frank Gore. Who actually is still in the league piling up yards at an advanced age for running back but there are other guys who seem like they've just been gone forever? Like Eddie Lacy Justin for set Lamar Miller. I haven't thought about that guy in a in a long time and so it's it was a it was a quiz. They made me sad stephan some quiz do that. I'm busy not really listening to you. And I'm typing the names of a pro sports teams that have the same first and last name better her. I'm not done but I got Chicago Cubs Buffalo Bills New York Knicks Tennessee Titans. LA LAKERS. Boston bruins Miami. Marlins do they count Washington Wizards. This is the Florida Marlins. Or is it the Miami Marlins. Now I've lost. Its Miami as Miami. Thank you Washington Wizards Philadelphia Phillies Philadelphia Flyers Cleveland Cavaliers. And that's where I stopped. Stop Typing to talk to you Pittsburgh pirates so you think that New York Knicks Philadelphia Flyers Star with the same. The nickname start with the same letter. Well that was my question in. Does it have to be letter or is it sound letter. It should be sound New York next. We're talking about alliteration. We're not talking about Pittsburgh Penguins. I don't the quizzes but I think it makes sense. Maybe maybe that's off. Take them off of my list. See if I care all right. Are you in the listeners. Ready to hear the fullest. I can't believe I'm taking the flyers off I mean they should have just spelled p. h. l. y. e. R. S.. All right here we go. You got a lot. That was impressive. You did a good job ignoring doing what I was saying. All right the answers are in baseball. Philadelphia phillies Miami. MARLINS CHICAGO CUBS Pittsburgh. Pirates and Anaheim. Manhandles the handles come on. They're really Los Angeles. Angels of Anaheim does that count in the NBA. We have Cleveland Cavaliers Washington Wizards. La Lakers San Antonio's Spurs in the NFL Buffalo Bills Jacksonville Jaguars Tennessee Titans Seattle seahawks in the NHL Pittsburgh Penguins Boston spend bruins and last chance son survey shows San Jose sharks rex you got it nailed it so I miss the Spurs the jags the angels and the Sharks Seahawks. I'm not counting because you said it at the top of the show so that was the give me. I didn't have to write that one down all right. That's pretty good. That's not bad I would have gotten the rest. Not a bad performance from a word freak. My question is do you. This is the insight into one's mind. Did you solve that. The by going sport by sport like division by Division or did you do geographically city by city. which is what I did? That's funny that you ask that. I sometimes times just imagine the Lake Divisions in whatever sport and just go through each division like alias. Dale central whatever. Sometimes I do. I do like fifty state song and thank alphabetically about like all right. What are the teams in Arizona? What are the teams in California? Yeah for this. Because it was Pam Sport I had a visual of the map of the United States in my head and I was moving down the seaboards and across the country. Interesting thank you. I've never done that. But that's the that's a reasonable strategy. Thanks that is our show for today. Our producer is Melissa Kaplan to listen to past shows and subscribe bribe reach out go to sleep dot com slash. Hang up and you can email us at hang up at SLATE DOT COM. If you're still here I'm guessing you might want even more hang up in our bonus segment this week. Josh Joel and I talked about the NFL. Lamar Jackson had eight turnovers all year. But had what three against Tennessee. So I mean that's that's the kind of stuff that's very random like you know. It's not like he throws a lot of inacceptable balls it's not like he's fumbled alive to hear that conversation. Patient joins sleep plus for just thirty five dollars for the first year. You can sign up at slate dot com slash hang up loss for Josh Levin and the Joel Joe Anderson I'm Steffan Fats remembers elmo Beatty and thanks for listening.

baseball Houston Astros LSU Rob Manfred Football Josh Joel the Times Jim Crane mets Major League Baseball Clemson New York City Jeff Josh Jeff Passan NFL Ohio football rape
Jimmy Butler

Knuckleheads with Quentin Richardson & Darius Miles

1:07:32 hr | 2 years ago

Jimmy Butler

"The. Tennessee celebrates individuals who push beyond their potential by sharing extraordinary stories of how they're in a dry pushes them to never stop. Never settle. The most recent spotlight highlights world champion cyclist Marshall. Major Taylor's never stopped. Never settle race against his toughest himself. Learn more about him and others dot com. Enjoying amazing cocktail Hennessy very special today. And always remember drink response. What I wanna know especially since you'll defended. He goes to stop. No, you don't do that. No. You were the score shooter at three point shooter used a post up a bit. But in the second later part of my rows a defendant. No, use the first year defender first, and then you start to lose your mobility. So then you become a three point is that. Exactly what I said this. You know over this thing. Oh, shoot offender who's the first person that Bush joys and the league and us like, ooh, this is the league this worse that he was hitting like, ooh. And then you realize I Lee for you can happen on any certain night who probably you weren't expected though not like one of where it's never it's never who. I'm not expecting because every time I played I always had to guard the big name. Right. So whether it was Kobe or whoever it was. Damn. I will say K D the first time now lined up against him. Just because. To me. He so disrespectful with his game. 'cause he's seven feet. He like shoot over anybody. You know what I mean? So he like yoga deed. Like, what can you do? He shoot fadeaways of one leg dribble. All you can do is look over at the bench. It'd be like Gardo look at crazy. Like you want us. Come. I said I said the same shit. I we I you six seven six five six don't look at me like that. But understand when he wants he gets his spot and raise up, you you just gotta hope miss just like, I don't really see. None of that. You gotta hope he meant. The house with knuckleheads tone would as my man Jimmy buckets in a building special. Philadelphia. Seventy six is keeping it real. This is rich divas nothing has we coach push. That's when I knew I was like, I'm the fact finder right here. This is a story that people don't call me solve. And you can't disrespect. From Nashes so crappy. OG standpoint always give doing here. I'll just coming over to watch the game. And you guys got microphones set up in the backyard. Okay. Buck is the nickname. You have buckets the nickname before you got this cargo or. You got to do that. Book. Had it before, you know. It was Stacey king. Go to pro-am. You know, I didn't heard Jimmy bugs. I was like man, I'm like, heat, nice and all this stuff. And then you know, the homies ACOG on like Jimmy buckets from the pro. And I'm this the same do. Book. It stuck with me a little bit ever since I take it. Committed your Saint John's Paul I got sucked in by midnight madness. What was the reason that you chose more kid? I wonder it's good as be quiet. See look to say. So to say. The you know, you went to you went juke. Oh, I wanna different route tell you. I wasn't about to get the, hey, but you was. It's definitely coming. I won't go into. It's a it's a long story, but you know, to cut it all down when I went to do cO I play with his guy named Joe folks who had already committed to Marquette in November. So when I get there, you know, I went to Tom ball right outside of Houston. I shot the ball every time. And I was I'm in can I really compete with the best of these guys. You know, juca was tough doggy dog man, if you pass the ball, you might not get the ball everybody trying to get to the next level. So men is Joe folks who ended up being roommates, you know, later on we ended up being a two best players on the team. But you know, I come out the first game ask or thirty three. I was like damn score thirty three, you know, college Juku, but college house, I shit, man. Maybe it's not a fluke come out the next game. I man I let's see last game was the flu thirty seven. And I was like all you know, maybe I can't hold on buzz came in. And he was assistant Marquette under cream at the time. And I was always around Joe. So he always was speak to me be nice to me. And then one day, you know, I'm playing well. So I got all of these schools talk to me offer me now he comes up to you know, what if I had a head coaching job. Like, you would be a player that will wanna come you to compla- for me? My man get out of here man Crean going nowhere Korea. Do you way out? You know what I'm saying? Stay in school back on when I was in school. He was on the Izzo. Uh-huh. Go away. And I'm on my man. Good do. But I mean crane is there like you assistant coach. Dude, crane leaves go to Indiana buzz gets the job. I'm the first person he calls like he always he always told me to truth in all of this. So you know, what I didn't visiting. I went to Marquette. I didn't even know that since Christ. I didn't know where. No woman walkie was. No. I know what state. It was in. I didn't know it snowed. So I went to Marquette rude awakening like ours in Houston basketball shorts and T. So when I got there, I was like shit. I was in Wesley Matthews calls. It still all his jackets because I didn't have nothing nothing. I'm gonna literally slippers basketball shorts. Why teeth? In the wake of the walk. Terrible. So that's a that's how I ended up over the crazy. But. Days. Got the school low like for you like how was that match? Absolute fucking worse. Fucking worse. So so way buzz was loving you. He was keeping real Johnny go to the word. He kept it real. He did say, hey, when you get the ball throw it to one of the fucking players though it to fuck Dominic James Wesley Matthews as our hair Jerome McNeil. And so when I got in he played me because I played hard. When the ball went up. I was going to get the ball. Now when I got the ball, you could fuck and just go to anybody because I want to shoot it. I was gonna turn around and find one place. So that's how I made my Mark Marquette basketball, and that's how he kept me on the floor who like Jimmy go. Get us extra possessions, here take charge their offerings. Everybody going to get it. You know, where about shooting because he will give it to one of those for years. I started they call it a Jamie's bunch. He was the J at the time. So I had to go in with him early work on all this stuff the fundamentals that house. I man and muffler buzz used to did cuss me out did all in my fucking face when balls Jimmy what the fuck was that? I was like, yo. But then again, I'd be looking like man, I'm James did the same shit. You say letter that. But that's when I started to realize that their levels and there's roles like, I mean hell does Dominic Janes at that point in time? I was just me shit. I would yell at me to yell at Dominy. Jane, you know, what I mean? But buzzwords ruined many taught me so much honest as they won stills that way. Now, probably to a fault. He got something to say about every day. I saw that that lacks man. Just relax. I'm not I'm not a kid, no more. But that's my man. That's my love. I love. That's my guy. Gift from there from being the guy like all, right? Give everybody. Well to like when you get ready get about it. And now coming into your own figuring out like I could hold on. I do this my role changed my rotates like, you know, my junior year when all of those guys live. I I got the ability to be able to just you know, shoot a couple bash shots attack at any point in time. That's what it was you put the working. He put confidence in me to add to the communist already had. That's what the game is is all mental ninety percent mental and other ten percent is I mean, you got to be able to go out and do it physically able to do. But if you think that you can do to you can. And so he was giving me a ball. Boom, boom. I never get my junior year in the turnament fucking Quincy pond extra game drove right by my sorry ass game. And I was I q p man I was she's now happening again. So all we focus in on. How can you guard somebody? So the next year coming back are guarded. Marshon Brooks college a Bucky in a hat. He was man, but cardiac Kemba Garda him in college. Like all of those guys problems men. That's what big is real too. Real. And that's when I started to take defence a lot more seriously offense as well. Offense was always just behind defense because I locked in on a defensive end, and I never get west. Matthew Kane Wesley Matthews came back, though, say yo you can play in the league as I work. And that's when I really started take basketball for oh for being able to be. Yeah. That's that's when I was you know, what maybe I can be a pro at the highest level not Europe pro nutters with that. But like the NBA like that's where you be. That's the best of the best. And he came back and told me that was like. Now, people don't understand how that change. And when you get a chance to go out there and be giving that freedom mistakes and not be worried about about not having a year. Like, you ain't getting pulled out or just getting somebody going crazy on you for one. You get that little freedom is like I could loosen could try go split his game. I have one of my vets. Right. And that's hold that FAM come up real. He's coming to me. He would be injured Roddy bourgie Nick up Lou out would be next up. So I gotta start. But I would play the same way, you know, tasers my coast I would play the same way if they was in a game. I when I get in China to make a mistake like doings, right? Don't fuck up. So you'll gonna come out the game. So I was playing like that time came rip pissed off. Get your dumb ass for coming. What he was. I why are you playing like that house? I I'm just trying not to fuck up heels. I I hope you do fuck up. Just so you can see nobody else can come here for you only one. If you fuck up. Nobody's will come here for and I was like damn fucker, right? Not just went out there and start a hooping, and I started playing well, I can remember the acronym. Changing like plan because I was still in the league plaid that time and it was like, I'm watching them. Like he went from struggling making mistakes. You could see it physically on your face like trying to figure things out then it's like he just started to make plays play a little more freely like figure it out who's like his confidence going through the roof. And now he's starting to figure things like who who? No defensive mining. But when you put your imprint on the game of oh, I can score on this level to like you start off us plan defense. And then all of a sudden, they tears depending on you the score. Now, you taking more shots, and it's like, oh, I can average twenty in this league. Just with the best first off that's hard to do. Averaging twenty in the league knowing that you probably number one or two guy on the scour poor. So we got to stop this guy. It's hard to do. So, you know for James do what he doing Steph, and knowing like, we gotta like gotta try to stop these guys that's tough and the team to need exactly. Every night. And then you gotta go down there and do it on defense van too. But I just started working on my game. I never I never worked on my game as much whenever I was in college and dream college in high school because I was I meant, hey, we're gonna be a pro like from Thome ball, Donald all American. I had to go to Juku. Like, I doubt it myself. That's why it's funny. Whenever you hear people say I knew Jimmy was going to be that stopped fucking line. Didn't even know that would be what I mean like, so when people say that I it sound good. It sound good. But you because I didn't work on my game me coming out. I just played with adults played a lot. Yeah. I that's what I did is go anybody been audio who've been on a who or they planning in indoor outdoors. Started out on Craig right? That's raise. Yeah. I just just who I didn't know too much about the game. So whenever I got that you taught me a little bit about the fundamentals of the game footwork got to college the Marquette, and it did the same thing. And then I started, you know, working with a trainer Chris Johnson out of Houston, my guy. He started teaching me about the game. And how I could be effective in my skill set. You know, I'm not step. So I'm nothing to go out there and try to play like Steph, but I can be me and be effective in ways you that's it. And we did that. Came all star, boom. Elect still been playing away sense. Yes. You see your point? So what you can get your easy. Book is easy me being a big small full. I used to always if I got somebody smaller. I'm right, right. On the go to civil give it about us Easley these, but you can get you can get on about that. What you're saying? Yeah. For come off stock. Have you shooter dot everybody? Everybody. No, I I had lunch period. First of all I was rebounding guard, and I put somebody inside the bucket. I agree with that within inside the bucket and transition, you know, no, he no he dropped that thing down there to watch me abuse, real extol, gene. But. Game help you people don't know that goes Addison twenty. To get the confident quick. Oh, man. You need that one right next to get you get to the free throw line and got to see the ball going, man. That's that's how to score is doing a couple easy ones. Now, you're not pressing thinking about nothing boggling the bass in. You'll okay I'm filling in I'm in a rhythm. Then you hit a jumper or to. As you can have one of them nice as a defender in, you know, basically two way player, but somebody who's known as the defendant like how you feel about how to league is just slowly but steadily GIS crippling the defendant like for heart, and he can travel now he can do a double step back step back and just like as if he ain't franc people in gifted and talented enough like we're going to take some stuff away from defender, and we're going to allow them to start doing stuff. Live earth by how do you feel like there's somebody who traveled or not that's still a tough shot hit. That's why I'm saying is doubles triples cut back. I don't care step back from three as far as he shooting anyways. She's tough. But it's just like man, you can't you can't really be physical with. Nobody. No more. I'm done right there. And that that's that's that's where the game is can't tell. You can't tell. The play a little bit more. But just think of I look at it this way think the way the foul motherfuckers thing about that person without on you. Now, you get somebody like that you're for sure gonna flagrant way. Now, you just going to out to y'all used to fuck people up back in. Man. No layer, we give focus as well. With all my might trying to dunk it. I know they they'll fi- before they get it. When we got to the league we real competitive because we were so young. And we wanted to prove ourselves grown, man. It's five us twenty one in under plan against these chromium ten I want to know where you got your competitive is to always compete every night matter if he gave you sixty or fifty you made them earn every exact and to continue to keep that competitive is everywhere you go first off I'm not going back to Thome ball like that. That's that's how I keep looking at it. And why why you keep doing what you're doing? Tell you something I'm not going back to leave out. But my my competitive edge that shit comes from the fact that nothing was given to me, man. I had to go to junior college. I had nowhere else to go. And then when I got to Marquette, they was I again, go make it. So I was okay. I'm gonna show you. That's where I I wasn't that. Good. So I know what the work can get you. So that's what my competitive my. I don't I don't care if you as dollar American tradition. We all bleed the same. We all gotta tire shoes of the same unless you wear velcro, then you can slide over but other than that, man. We don't we're gonna go at it. You'll scare me. Okay. How big you name is what your contract is. At the end of the day. You have to with plan today the price on this is Sam it'd be like mousy I won't. But that's why played a game as I tell everybody. Like, I don't do it for the fame on to it for the money for nothing. The only reason I do it is. So when I go up against the guys that you could call out they're gonna be like fuck ago. Fact, that's the word. No is just like when you beat through like the media, say, whatever as long as when you see that do he shoots look, and he likes here we go. I got I got some gotta bring my list. That's the respect we won't as competitors. Like, it don't matter. What the outside world think they're paying like we all know when they see when just in that battle how they react. And they like, you know that they can push. That's that's respect you before the game. You look across whether Russ PG bra and hit you with the. That's why I played a game. I don't play for no other reason, man. And you guys talk guys knowing they'd be here. Fucking clown. Fucking. There's no, you know, we know you know, what I'm saying. We know. Well. Komo is just want you to be I respect them of what he played hard. I know he gonna be in. He gonna make it tough for that. That's why I put against translate all saying generations from you know, I don't care when you play. And that's one thing that we respect about you where you play we feel that you cut from the same club. I think that's why you brought up the story about how we came in. And the way we competed in their whoever how disrespecting Hurson radio to fight the fight. But we will we come in China. Make splash like Bush told them boys out that we won't everybody to know we want everybody to see they we ain't scared way running from it. But we hear you know, what I'm saying. Like, we aint backing down like whatever I like to. And I just told this story the other day whenever I came into the league MVP woes. Ios even Joe Kim, right all-star Lou booze rip all of them guys. And the way that they used to talk to each other in practice is like damn if you can talk to MVP rose like that. I know you go me up when I do some wrong. Right. You know what I mean? So that's what I came into like, you're going to be brutally honest in between these lives because we all trying to win. We all want each other to be successful. I gotta know what you doing. So this guy can know what I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. So you're talking and all the time. It's not going to be like a, hey, can you please? You don't have time for that. I feel like this this twenty thousand people in the renter. You can't hear I feel like now everything is, hey, don't do that. You're not supposed to come out. Like, I'm a I'm a say get right to the point. I'm raising my voice little bit might put a few bombs in that. But is over with if y'all trying to work toward the same go. But like that's why I tell him I say that. That's what the NBA is is people from every different wildlife. You could think of as long as we are respecting everybody each other's. You know, what I'm saying the way we come from the way, we are man what you tripping for you. All everybody had a coach or grade school coach coast to be going up, which you know, he mean, well, he loved the hell out of the kids and everything don't do that don't be sensitive. I feel like now everything is like because it's so much access, and it's so much you could see everyday like everything is so sensitive count. Do that. Don't that was did you see that? That was I come home at the same time that the world now social media ruined everything. Cole. My god. You can't say do act. Go. Nothing. Okay. Home taken out of context have the proper context for things. They just see a patriot go crazy. So when there's a get they don't insert whatever the hell they want to. I don't know what's going on. I guess up. That should be juicy as to. Sometime like sometimes it's. I have no idea if this is even remotely to if it is who came up with this creativity of this. I'm telling you this not to be like who set down in felt it is like this is some you might be going to go to movies. You just creating stories like it gets real. I'm telling you Mississippi funny, especially when it comes to me because I don't read nothing in the media. I don't really nothing. But I know what's going on somebody. Yeah. So I know is going on. And my thing is if you know me. Then you know, that some should that people be talking about it was like, yo he don't he not that? Now that part. Okay. But like, let's that's not stopping. And if you know me, you know, my heart is you know, what I mean how I do really play to win. I like that. That's the only reason why I haven't won on any level. I can't say that. I'm a winner. I don't want my career to inland that. Can you say that? I'm a loser. No, I'm somewhere in there. But you know, so you know, how much you overcome to get to. But I want like gimme like a championship brain. Whether it be Heisel. I'm a person that didn't win a championship in the NBA. But I know I think what made me you know, what I'm saying. Like you say not a loser. You know what I'm saying? Everybody can't be like a world champ. I'm not at the definitely should should not ever stop working like for me. I know you're not a loser. Because of like, he said what you've overcome and the way you work at it. You know, like if you was out the dog and got a bag and set on your bud look likely letting the chick I now you max out you trying to leave it all out there. Not China, which is that's all you can do you can only put everything you got into it. And then sometimes the chips fall this way sometime they don't everybody knowing this league in all sports to win the world championship. Her name. Is it ain't hard work? Every is love is happening as going away all type of things. So that's like one of the hardest things in the world to do. So you should never feel like you will feel like a loser. See listen to Charles and Joe pool. Everybody know Barbie. Know guys did a great show. Players that didn't wanna chip lets you give it your all every night. If you put it on the line, you put the work in and all this stuff, and and you can walk away from it. You know, what you're of? Yeah. Nice. Yeah count. But we all everybody don't be in position to win. Everybody. Don't don't get a chance to be on the team. You got some players that play for bad teams. They hold over everything that I went to my whole career was about starting over. So I I get chance to play in the playoffs. I used to see players in the playoff, and I didn't know better than he got the opportunity to plan a play alternative world is looking at. But I can't dwell on it or beat myself up about it. I just got to play the course that they gave. Produced in cognac, France Hennessy is the world's best-selling Konia and supports those who never stop never settle. Enjoy an amazing cut two with Hennessy very special today. And always remember to drink responsibly. Lazy from Tomba like you being a our say like a different type of superstar saying country music. Not being you know, what I'm saying like them rate. Yeah. Like not being afraid of whatever that Intel doing. What is like I didn't saying you while now going on the list the ocean adventures in the wildlife and following up the good news. I am. I am you lie. You don't like it. You're gonna hate it. But I'm still going to be me. I'm not I'm not changing who I I may change the close where the city I live in. But we do the same stuff. If you around the house, you ain't going to hang out with us. How we're going to play dominoes Ono's some cards watch the same movie over and over and over again. Right. So it's like that. That's who he is. And then he gonna work on his game. That's me and a nutshell. Don't like I really don't give a fuck what anybody thinks of me. I I really don't because I'm comfortable in my own skin. And I like who I am. I like where I'm at you know. And it's like, I say it all the time. If you know me if you around me, you know, who I am, you know? I mean, that's every time. I come to Orlando. I'm laying it was good. You know what I mean? Like now, whenever I I mean, your city was good, man. Let's let's go have a drink. Let's go. Oh, have lunch or something? Like that you my people my people, my people, you don't know me. So I would expect you to fill of wive. I get it. I'm not mad at you. Yeah. That's what it is. When you understand that some people like people don't like you for no reason at all and people going to hate you for no reason. They do they do rocks. Geez. Man hall and the perfect, man. I know they go. Hey, my. Nutting hate me. You know, you can't from a property environment. You know, like us, and I know like when I you'd be around people were all from Saint Louis. The father's people being Chicago. Which is you know, our Memphis, which is another four hours and getting a chance to play basketball and this basketball taking me around the world and seeing stuff that people in my family would imagine seeing eating. Massive. It's cray. All just people. Just you never know who will be on some type of talent or or Koby number can talk to Kobe or. Mark wahlberg. You have with them. I was with him last night for for like, that's like somebody. We like all saw on TV like. You like he bene- superstar. You get to know him and beat get a relationship. I know coming from what you came from to be and like a luxury of all the stuff that you've had a luxury, and like you say for you, you do as a person who doubted till so if you didn't send is like some people at a young gay like. Was on sports for you. You had to go to connote fourth illustrate this. He worried about it. No. I think every single morning and every night for the life that I have for the people that are having. And to know how fortunate and blessed I really am is incredible. Like there has to guide did this. I you can't make the story up of where I come from a how I got to where I am in the people that I'm able to to break bread wit and bring along with me like, nah, like, we're all unique, and we all have our own stories of. But for me or for the next guy. Like, KOMO know that this is not like that. So every day I wake up, and I know that I could call this person Arko Ford this food or I can go to this country. Man. I didn't even know where the hell payers like I never look at a map to Bill yo- pairs is France. And that's here or there, the one that gifted us, the statue of liberty. You know, what I mean like, I don't know all of that. And I'm going over there. And there teach I'm like damn never know million years when I'm back in ball. But about was your friends and family that's been in this mall town. They hold and they start experience which you up to the better foods, I tell you different water country country not going for none of that. You want? You're done. You're not going Jimmy what? Your favorite is. But somebody say shitting on. Country should be how you want. You just take medium shit knol. Well done like this. Like if you country you can't help but the country shit. Oh shit. I've ever heard of my life, but for real, and I'm glad that I get to bring some people along with me. And I it's hard because. Like, you can't you can't get used to it. Always tell everybody the life that I live that we're able to live. It's it's a fairytale. Like, you told me like there is some wrong. But there's a lot of right too much. Any good thing is bad thing. I tell everybody that man. So, you know, whether it's a jewelry, or or the food or the women or the the way we travel whatever it is, man. Any point in time. It could be gone any point time. It could be gone. So you have to enjoy you have to live your life. But know that it ain't it's not going to be like this forever. That's that's the hardest thing to try to get family to understand. You know? I I still say thank you. I'm still very grateful for everything that everybody does for me. So when somebody and that's why I keep the people around Cuba around. They'll let me know like forget at some bullshit. That's not you that. That's what I like about mid. That's why people don't let me know when I'm not being me. Like, I when I do some bullshit. I want you to call him fucking. That's Bush did like I have my guys like that. They can talk to me just like I would talk to them. Let it go feel good. When when you know that person always got your best. And it's okay to say, I'm sorry. It was okay to be wrong. All of us been in his life league doing letting we've had peers teammates opponents, whatever you wanna call it. And we see where they got the. Yes, men around it, you date day, the ones this oblivious got the head in the clouds think they never wrong. Thank everything. I do is the coldest night perfect and this because all of their partners around noon as yes me, and they eat when you eat. They do what you do. They gotta wait for you on everything. It's like, that's that's the boo. You know what I'm saying? Like, you say that we see that exist around. And I it's always cold me to hear because I feel like that's how we that's how we always were waiting of have people around us that was telling us Bs pumping our heads up. And that's why feel like we were able to stay grounded within all of this. We never got to the point where we will fill in ourselves for thinking we was better than anybody else. Because we in the NBA we making some might say little the people. Homeboy no girls. And we've seen all of the. It's been around him. Jay. And he's the go. He's the biggest money whatever you wanna say. He's that in like you cheer with him. And you see how cool how respectful how it matter? How you think people looking house and seer and all these different things like he? True. Tripping. You know, the part that I don't like about that. And it's tough. And social media, doesn't I think you can name whoever thought of name the name good do Mike Steph K D, whoever may be. We're all humid. So we all have bad days. Right. We all have something that goes on in life that you can't tell but just because I they don't wanna deal with that. Right, man. You never know. What's going on in my life, your earn whoever's writing just because that one time like I say man, not today. They're not a asshole that you don't know what's going on this person. That's the part that bothers me. Like, I get that. We're famous that we make money that were faces on this billboard that TV. But at the end of day, man, you gotta understand the for human and go through life. We deal with real life. Just like a win the worst part about it is our shit is everywhere. So if something goes on in our life Heo TMZ, it is on your website. On your TV show coming to a station near you. You know, what's going on? Oh, man. Especially if your name is if your faith is on that billboard or you all and then apart. They don't understand that us being humans. We got the things that even with us been on NBA on all it's still things that happened in my life that you don't know about that could be affecting going through the the world. Like, if we got a family member, there's something going on anything God forbid, anything like that. We've all been through in different scenarios like in the world don't know that. And we in the crazy bad mood or mailing wooded emotionally like art. It's hard to do on a on a this platform. Whereas you say I just said, you know, ninety percent of the game is mental. I think if something is in your head, and like you just like damn I gotta think about this. I gotta play through that mental already messed up. It's hard to do. That's that's the part of the game that you know, the fans can't see his dad, man. It's a mental grind your body. You can get over that physically. Get an ice getting ice. Get a massage. Joe your mental can be so tired and exhausted. When just keeps adding onto it mainly now, I gotta remember what each of these players on top of that to create is this, and I gotta deal with this person. And that person got wives they have to know how to manage that with with with the players, and all that stuff going to tell you that part of it that human aspect of the game of life as a whole she's hard McCue, you know, coming from where we came from. We would Jordan's. We raise Mike. Yeah. Mike was just everything to us. And we had opportunity to be with Jordan brand. When a lot of players wasn't with Jordan. And there was like a different day and age era. Come from what you come from a no like starring with by younger. I don't even remember that talking. What are you talking to me? Jordan families brand of the go-to all goats. You know what I'm saying? Like, how did that feel like it's playing that most by you got signed to it and playing how high was about our super high much growing up. We couldn't even afford yours. You actually, so we just looked at anything. Right. And which one day one day. I'm a hat telling ways coming way, right? So whenever I did leave a former brand that I was with. Fucking. You know had opportunity to to to sign on John met. And man as has been a great experience. I've met, you know, incredible people Mike himself, and like he was saying he's just an incredible human being he's does it's like a family, man. It's everybody is in constant contact. And you know, as great when we all get to get together over the summer. But just to know I grew up like man on these days. I just want a pair apear of Jordan's. You know, and for you you like wanted to do you know that they freak out for love? I just get little meals stuff to come out. He gave rare. They sent him some retro 's Orson this like, no, you gotta like your head of dough. Oh head. Like how they overload. Yes. He is. Now, you'll every day. We'll joke George. And they're not get to you know, lace my people. Yeah. And, you know, the organization to them with like, I think that the people behind our organization or or so fucking important, man. I try to speak in no everybody name on whether it be the ticket sales or the PR out to Pat and Harry's I rather don't focus you like that. I'm gonna say on here. But you my guy. Thursdays. So it's it's crazy. Because like I'm grateful for those guys like 'cause they gotta deal with everybody. Whether it be media us as players fans. So I want them to feel as a pre sheeting wanted as possible. Because that's that's what any job is you want to be wanted. Appreciate make you feel important. You know what I'm saying? I love the people behind the scenes of everything that like y'all don't get y'all's name on the billboard or on a banner at the game, but yard do everything to make sure that we good at least we don't work without don't work big night. I don't care. What's going on? None of this stuff. Don't work if everybody doing they put I couldn't do it. I'm telling you Dabie type stuff on computers and doing stuff with cameras like I can't lift Mike up and down to the I'm high too. I could talk to from the from the custodian to the to the. CEO to tap, the coal and make them feel person with me when we go from LAC at a lock of the team the ball guys, look guys, helping I'm I'm have jokes and nicknames for Meghan fit at least panel's attention and not just the human. Yeah. My thing is their fans of the game. Huge. They signed biggest fan AB Sola high. Shoe? But. A kick anything watching the game. Get home, and they'd be getting there early like guests gets. They should they noticed. Our report before we. You know, who you got tonight. Right. He left you go left. He hit that double Steph. Jane? Like, he they know they know. So I'm grateful for for those people to as what was like the first thing you got what like in the league. Like, hey, I'm the I never thought. I would what what was the first thing. I got oh win. Biggest purchase. I like no house or cord like a big purchase that sound right away or win win is the moment was like damn when you when you there when it was something like, you know, what like this thing that need this is like a one like what like wherever you got your first big money. Like, why could go do some stunt tax based on? Why would like not never thought? I'd be spending money on something. Like this. The Terry truth. We all did. I would I probably won't do that. I know I'll probably say it was after the Olympics. You know, I've been in the league awhile. But that that Olympic summer and winning goal and using that company St. Joe's human company time. He got the party got that company her he got up brand that companies. I had I had a little bit of money at the time to truth coming into the league who is rip rebels telling me, so we're plan Burra, right? But hold on hear me out. Hear me out. We'll plan boot. Right. And so I'm a competitor. So I never wanted to get out. And I was getting. That was being my to the white ball. I don't. So re was like, you know, I'm gonna tell you felon. You rib was big L to me. Now, you'll pock is not like everybody else packages table man, get out or don't play are you gonna be in debt? So I started what's impaired attention to it? So now, I'm going through the league and paying attention y'all can't do that. I don't have that. I can't do that. I don't have that. We want to go metal. Financial advisor says I'll give say them out of money. But he says you're I'll give you X amount of money. I don't care how you you can give it away if you want to but go do what you're gonna do it. So I got some cars and some jewelry that war on the that was on that was a big. Oh, great good time spending all in one day. Oh, don't take me that long break history. Take me. I got another moment which was which was great too. We was in was in Paris. And I was with you know, like I said now, I'm fortunate to be able to be friends with d way when mail. Well, in Paris fashion week, let alone I never thought that I would be there with those guys in pairs fashion week. I trade it to two Minnesota. I got a trade kicker, and so my agent these calling me, and I we're sitting here playing spades. And delays in next to me, you know, or Teamsters go at the time my agent, he's he's text me the whole time. But I don't want them think I was cheating. So I'm gonna check my phone pick up the phone was up and my agents like you're gonna get traded to Minnesota. So I'm tabulate yo get traded to Minnesota his shut the fuck up. No, you he's playing cards and the TV's on and you know, nowadays, it's soon as something big happening daily. It's coming up on your back. So I'm like, I am trying to tell you we play spades. And do I was like damn he just got traded Minnesota. I just told you that. And so I get up talk tomato. You gotta you. Gotta trae kick your X amount of dollars. Right. He's I spend it all in. So I go back to the table. I'm like, yo, you know. I just got traded trae gig agency, fug it. Mended bet dinner on you dinner, you so I was okay. Cool. So we're going to one of my favorite restaurants. The Mark Wahlberg introduced me to limi- Louis in Paris. So we go in there. We did that there's some type shows. We did that we had we had a nightmare. And it was it was going the first time being traded. So I took it kinda hard. You know what I mean? But I I was forced into beat mellow. They give you in good spirits toast to keep keep doing what you're doing. But we had we had a good night. We joined a lot of wind has some good. That was a. That to mellow snuck out with the best bottle to I'm never forgiven him for that. I still remember stay mellow. Who did you see that? You start petting your game of store seeing moves or like man I'd like how he played or trace him grain teammate. Problem proper, we go we aware. Yeah. I didn't I didn't have to guard team and funny stories. What was I? He was in Atlanta at the time. And so I'm. I'm in Chicago, a rook, and you know team when he was in Houston, or Atlanta, whatever he's my favorite player and seven to the game. Tom like, this was at the wiz. This was at twenty and t Macarena game for Atlanta. Coach looks. Yup. You got ta I'm like what like even though like there's fifty seconds left in the game. And we're about twenty. I'm just like damn. Like shit. I had all your posters on my wall. I mean, he telling me this who I get to guard or have to guard. But that's who I'm out of my game after in high school. I would shoot just he was shoot snake is like he was. Yeah. Thirty thirty wrong, which thirty in his pocket. HIV same. Yes. Ain't man enough to not saying that you can't guard him. But like he was a problem for everybody, including other people send this table switched out after. Gone. He had thirty on me and blocking shots for game for us to win the game. You know what I'm saying? That's a as a defendant. You know is is about one one position ended about. Well, so much. They scored a. Got to win the one count. When he gave that look respect I from. That's that's is that if we used to play. All of them. No. Because because you know, me I really ready to give scrap. No, we know. It was going to be a war that way it was going. I'm going to do that. We're going to make it a war one way or the hub. If you was way nicer than me, I was gonna go to my special move. And just file you real try Tim dates you see what was going to get from them that we want to just do silly stuff about ninety s and now okay, I was better than nine better now. So I gotta say nineties or now hit me. Hit me massage her cuts better in the nineties better. Now. I must say now say now, I'm not saying that. Exactly. And I'm one of them. So I gotta say now your relax relax a haircut after this. 'cause like my fourteen wants to do this. Cut the side. I call them the Khanda fail. How would you call it before Kanda before by? Nappy head boy. Got. You're right. Juice. I gotta go in now. But I don't know I like the like the low. You know, people getting ahead braided up. Todd none on the size. No more a marking with the now because I'm in with the now, I didn't do the high tops. I didn't like like based deal retro and now too. So it's kind of all up a few. I mean, it all come back around anyways, just like closed. So maybe in a couple of years we stop wearing you got the ball. You can't Prouty rep the body closed like you. D way make a witch price. Like, I say we talked about this the plane fashion was it better. Then or now now man went to big ass clo- this. I'm not I recall skinny jeans now be wearing capris cool lights now type of stuff like I didn't come on color. Shit. Way where straight. Saying brother did not take the this. Where he hit me. We I, bro. What does she do sit on the pitch? He liked do because I do this now. That's. Do it because I. Definitely said say that. Man crazy rap music in the nineties or now. I'm going into nineties with that one nine real rap be. You have some some people that were just going saying they named and songs to one no subtle, man. My top five albums. Hey, he asked me as me my top five hours. First off. No, John, John. I just got talking about this day, and you can say what you want. But you asked me to question Justin bieber's purpose album is hey, Dan that you look away. I'm just saying he said my top five out for the B shit, man. Fire more hill. Okay. I'm rolling fire. Luke, Bryan, Luke Bryan is country artist. He got a crash my party till you what check it at Dow on fire actually like Drake's take care of. I got one more. I got one more. I got one more. Who I've been listened to? Is it a rap artist name? Hey, there's my five smy five. Wayne, Wayne, the whole Carter's car collection Craig's. Yes, I would say I one of the second one is is my favorite one. So I put that in union is out the way you didn't sway me to say that that was in there. I just had to remember with with. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Players jewelry van on now. Then. Yeah, you always it was stupid. It's crazy. I will come in with like come on. No days with the whole. He had his face peace man with the drill. Thanks. Y'all do it. And it was funny. Because now when you look back at you'd be like, that's just ridiculous obnoxious. But you look back at it was like that's what that's what the times was. Hey, I had tripping. Hey, I had he set the tone. We was going on set the tone. He I think he changed the game like how Steph basically changed the game with shooting threes. He did it in off the core way with the Braves with jewelry with all of that stuff. Like a did speaking like so who do you think had the bigger impact on the coast between all the Brown? Tough. 'cause this is different. But it's still huge on both hands. It's kinda different. That's a Manet. Both do so much. That's why I'm saying both doing decent different ways. But the impact is I don't think you can. I don't think you can really pick one or two others like the whole Kobe MJ. Lebron obey lake. I don't compare. Nobody. Just because like so you can't pay. I'm not saying I can't pick one. But I don't compare like this person can do that in this person can do that. I can give you my opinion. But I don't think that you can compare because I'm fortunate enough to be able to see LeBron do what LeBron is able to do and look back and be like damn MJ was a problem, and I never had to guard like Coby Coby. Trust me. Kobe covy. I know I heard I never had the gore like delayed either. That's today. Koby beware that's taught three shooting guard. Hey, we when we got dragged we two thousand drive so that year, one of the repeat so so trust me like playing on your member saying, I love and basketball when she got in the Kam like that's how I used to be like out guard net Koby that was the Koby where it was like he'll do anything like for real this. Kobe was windmill and under the rain. Ram shooting fan three doing anything like literally doing. This was the most athletes. I never was crazy. So that's why I can't I never compare the the three just like you. I can't pick, you know, change the culture. A like man, I'm grateful for both. I'm grateful for all three that they are player. Anyway, to in everybody else that I got a chance to play with play against or what you're just like, man. It's an honor to be over CD's guys. Do what they do night after night after night against the best against we gotta stop this guy. You know, what we're gonna team damn doa team now work triple team shit shit empty the bench everybody, go try to know what I'm saying. No what I'm saying that she's crazy. I feel like you person is defender. You didn't got a chance to play against these guys in prime put them in oil like who you are rather see like who's the easiest to who's our hardest to guard. I know all of them heart. Yeah. But I wanna know like just feel somebody coming each on that score fucking ninety now. Oh, he didn't put me over him. I'm gonna show them. The fuck. Exactly. So. You gotta do five can just do like do three three. I do too hardened K D LeBron Arden, Katie abroad and probably be. Respect to all of those guys. Ninety only one Katie as I said early on like he's the hardest right especially with the team. He'll now faxing to probably broad. So what was played at what ones to over because where Brahman like he's just a. The motherfuckers six low like two hundred and seventy pounds running four flat like. This is a great step in front of that. And now he in jump shots. He passes the ball on time on target. He set the screen he'd come off the screen like. Everything. I mean, don't get me wrong chains. It's tough to interesting with him being third in that with the runny all right now, basically being able to be guard. Yeah. You feel like people just had great lightly James, really be more. They had that mentality that, but you know, I think K D guards. Total problem. You know what I'm saying same day? I think James canned guard. I just think that I get it. I mean, you you're you're asked to do thing. He's earned all this engine of offers. And that's how that team that. He's on his have opportunity to win games defense is a lot of energy that you spend it for go down there and be short on all your jump shots. I is is it's hard to do. So I get it. I'm not and everybody got the all star game. And you know, the team yards built around whatever player it may be. But that's that's the order to put him in. All great hall of fame players me wrong. How how was it to be? You know, what I'm saying detain? You got like a talent like being back here. The problem is big as is being able to play the point obviously JJ one of the best shooting. You got big MB who's pirated most dominant. Big fella. We got going right now. How do you feel when you look around? And like man, I got something really work with. We could be a problem. It could be special. We can. And it looks good on paper. But we gotta go out there. And we gotta do right? I think everybody got a ban on same page. And in so many aspects of the game. I think everybody has to do a good job of of knowing where they fit in and how to get in and playing the role. It's crazy to think that. You know, what you're gonna get out of your quote unquote superstars, but it's the role players in the role that they play they're really gonna win championships. You know what I mean? Right second. That draymond. This is a hey, I'm gonna shoot twelve threes per game. Like Steph is. So. Not the same team. But I think he does it great job. And that's why I respect them for does a great job. If I I'm hoping but damn staff you offer the player now. No. I mean, how many times does he joked about pain, he could probably shoot and make a floater dribble. Handoff loan to boom. I mean didn't goes just guards. You know, you say what you will. But I I do respect that part of his game and going back to your point like we can be really really good. We have all the talent in the world would just gotta buy into everything we're doing on both ends of the floor. And that's gonna take it to another level, man. You know, we watch film and we've like damn if everybody was on the same page just on on on this particular play on offense or on this particular play on defense. It's like if we are knew that he was gonna do that. And so we rotate it this way or we put our hand like this. How that's crazy. That was big to me when I play something that I didn't even know was doing, but I was doing Norma personnel. Maybe versatile player, Hefner know positions from one hour to the five the envy, Gordon, everybody. It was like I knew my whole person. I knew what he was going to do. I know if I he owned opposing, oh, he shooting up on trying to denounce about he going to spend a, but the person unless I know he's other person. Now, I know he can do I know how to get him the ball JJ to the bubble. I'm not pleading being position that he's uncomfortable and putting them in the best position to win. June being like, I told you that sylling under the basket both Yabe doing Yabe hitting each other with them. Quick solid strong baseball passed down trying to get the easy lane. You got to you know, you gotta try to play to your strengths and everybody else's and try to cover up everybody's weaknesses at the same time. That's part of you know, what I say being a good teammate and knowing where to teammate is capable. But with that being said everybody got to be on the same page. No matter what. So you gotta know all if he's in this spot he is getting this ball or if he's here on defensive end. And if he gets beat or if he's getting posted up I'm going to be there. That's the that's the next progression for any great. You know want to win a championship team. How does it feel to come to to organizations like he went to Minnesota, and you with the seventy Sixers, and you have this responsibility to have the game on the line? Mostly all the time. Yeah. You know, you call some place at the end the game for a few players, but seventy five to eighty percent of the time they last at the end of the game's going to be call for you. And you got the responsibility to miss this take this. Get out of lower. So how did that feel to have to organizations back the back like they label you as a gang finish that's part of your stats? I love it. You know, because my teammates, my coaches organization have that much confidence Amita to take that shot late in the game. But also to know that. If I'm not open. Might pass it to. Team. He said the peers on how I'm feeling I remember that you get the game on early just fill. The we. Right. The we have here. Winning play Sarli. Give crazy. Man, sixty bone. But like you said it's about the one place. He said that. Saying back. Get one. On. So I think I'm working my game enough to know. I think any certain time I could probably shoot any shot and feel comfortable. Let it go that it's gonna go in not saying that they all go in. But I know when I get to my place or my spots on the floor. How effected that I can be. And I think they. All my foreign teams done a great job of making me feel comfortable on both ends of the floor. But at the end of the game and this. It's on you. You know what? I mean. I like that. You're. Oh, I love it. I love. I'm gonna take it. And, you know, maker miss I live with that. We live with that. But I think for most part, we're okay with it. So. As big that. You don't beat yourself up about the the MRs, you know, you get some people everybody missing this J one at least one I feel like LeBron kinda got caught up in that early on where he'll feel comfortable now in his career to take them. Last shots. Don't care if he missed hit or miss it. He just confident taking in. But I feel like early on so much pressure on him that he kinda shied away. You know, like you say sometimes. Yeah. Pass the ball. Sometimes you want your play. I want my best player be selfish and join coulda passed to. But sometime I want him to be selfish sometime in the pet into taking that shot, and depending on I mean, I look at it. I look at it two different ways. Mandatory it all just depends depends on how you're you're playing everybody else's strength and more anything men if the person you pass it to can handle that you know, what I mean if. If you pass to rookie. He misses the shot like think about the mental mental some. Yeah. So you gotta you gotta know that. But if it's the right play, you kinda gotta do. And if he missed it. He's kind of like yo that's part of the game that right there is the right play. That's the right shot. If we do it over again, I threw it to you for reason, Arthur to you for res or that person through to for a reason, but you gotta always look out for your teammates. That's why a lot of times. I will take the shot because one I know that I can make it in to if I miss it. Another opportunity. I guarantee I'm getting tune into. Yes. Family. Hey, guys. Joe check us out on apple podcasts or wherever you listen. Download subscribe check us out. We out you get it in. Knuckleheads yet. Yeah.

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Playing Trade-Deadline Doctor and Going Deep on the Pelicans | Group Chat (Ep. 370)

The NBA Show

57:03 min | 2 years ago

Playing Trade-Deadline Doctor and Going Deep on the Pelicans | Group Chat (Ep. 370)

"The Yahoo daily fantasy is starting year off hot every day. They're on one hundred thousand dollar fantasy basketball contests that has zero management fee. That means Yahoo is making nothing on this contest less players equals. Better odds for you more than one in five people who play will double their money. Not a bad way to kick off the new year. There's a limit of ten entries per person. So don't miss these contests. Go to Yahoo dot com slash daily fantasy use promo code yahu twenty five when you make your first oposite of twenty five dollars in free play. Basketball is very good. Is actually a good team. Soften is the most important broad court pacer here and FOX's better than Donovan Mitchell. Basketball is very good in welcome to the ringer MBA show. This is the groom show. I'm still not comfortable doing it. You can always switch it. You know? Do better probably not. We're gonna get into some hot. Pelicans talk in the second half of the podcast or bringing on Scott Kushner from the New Orleans advocate, but first we're talking about deals it's rumor mongering season. We have a lot of this going on on the ringer dot com. We have a live blog that we're going to pretty much being updating throughout the next month. Tracy's in is now a month. Just in case you guys are wondering just because we love it so much. There's going to be a lot going on there. Johnson. Charles Rutter, really good piece today about who says no between a trade for CJ McCollum four and Gordon which I thought was particularly interesting one. But we are talking about some teams that need help regardless of what's happening in the season. I think they're going to need something to happen. Let's start first with the Boston Celtics. Okay. Haley, this is the team gonna affects you you can locked and loaded with the trade. I did. Well, okay. So actually, this is funny. I won't come locked and loaded. It came to me in the middle of the night. I woke up, and I had my phone, and I looked at the trade machine just to see if it would work and it did. And then I went to sleep, and then I got up this morning. And I looked at it. And I was like oh. This is a little out there. So I feel like I need to explain I okay this. There are so many things wrong with the Celtics when I say that I don't just mean on the court. I mean, a lot of it is off the court by proxy that means that something's wrong with Brad Stevens to not for got him as a person, but his coaching right now because you have kyri who just to recap basically said these guys will not to win a championship. I know how to win a championship. You have Jaylen Brown one of the young guys coming back and saying no, we shouldn't point fingers. There's bad things going on everywhere. And then so Kyrie tries to fix it and says, I called LeBron, and I apologize because it's really hard to develop young kids and be around these young kids and teach them how to win which is basically like if you call your mom, and you're like, I'm so sorry for being a shithead. You're so calling your kit and shit head. Right. You know what? I mean. Like, it's it's kind of him saying sorry. It was not really. I thought it was like an interesting news. Not just the fact that he did it. But also that he felt he needed to communicate it to the to the media that he that. It was interesting too. I thought well that nothing means anything if you don't communicate. It's the media, right? No. No. But then we had the story this morning on the doubt, you know. Kevin love was if LeBron when Kyrie called the it all seems like I don't know. I just that's that's the issue with the. I mean, I think that's a little independent of it. Because you have a reporter in Cleveland who's like clearly tied with our nose LeBron and Kevin love so well from his time with him that he was able to track down the details conspiracy corner right now. No, no, I agree that like the biggest issue is that all of this has played out in the media. And it seemed like was both acknowledging the flaws in that and yet still doing it through the media as if to like put a book end on the entire right Lasko. Hopefully from this point four he stopped doing that. And keeps it in house. But overall, I thought it was a good moment where he came to the realization that like maybe his methods aren't like the best way of doing. Well, a day or two. After he originally said that first comment he was talking to the media. And he said I should not talk about my teammates in public again. I'm paraphrasing. But he said that and that kind of was enough to me. But anyway, that's one problem that they have this outside perception going on inside. They've so many things wrong with their team. And last night. They won Aron Baynes is back which is far more important than I expected to be. He's kind of like a connector for a lot of the things that are going wrong on offense right now in on defense. Terry also played while last night, but he's been a huge problem by cope tears. First name. Very tito. It's a first name only guy. Yeah. We we know each other. We don't but I like to think we do. Okay. Anyway, Marcus marksman out another huge problem. Gordon? Hayward has been out in every single form except for body right kiss. Man. Like is vertical. It's completely gone looks gun shy. He looks like he's trying to conserve things than hide other things not the same player when they played the nets when they lost the nets Gordon sat like the last eight minutes before it was a close game. Horford's out the entire time. The hierarchy that we thought was going to exist does not exist. And that's Brad Stevens problem. He is a pick eight guys ten guys role with them. And it might not be your best eight or ten in that order, and he has to make that decision. And it seems so obvious. If you look at Marcus Morris the season he's been so important to them in ways that other more talented players should have been we were talking about this briefly. Office yesterday. I think that there's like a a point where like the hottest steak is that none of these players are actually all that good or not as good as we thought they would be whereas you had Jason Tatum. Jaylen Brown kind of playing above their heads last year. And maybe they're coming down to earth. Al Horford is older. He's been hurt. Kyrie Irving has a metal rod in his leg. Gordon? Hayward had one of the most gruesome injuries we've seen for a while. And so there's almost like this perfect storm element where we thought that these players altogether would be one of the most talented teams in the league and an actual -ality. Like all of the things that could go wrong seem to have gone wrong on an individual basis. I think Orlando's look good example of why all of that is happening because in Orlando, basically mean the last shot was dramatic. That's when Kyrie one in the last shot, but it was given to Tatum the bench basically lost that game and Terry played really poorly. And that's an example of what's going on with this whole team because terriers not been able to adjust the coming off the bench. He's not been able to adjust. To that role all season. It's the same thing when everywhere you look around. Jalen Brown has not been able to adjust the fact that Gordon Hayward is one and he's won a it's like the sees of more. But after only one season like everybody wants more touches and more and more and more playtime and more of that, you know, and it's like they're so unbalanced compared to imbalance are compared to how they were last season that it's almost like how is this the same team in granted. It isn't right because carries fully back and Gorn. Hey was fooling back. But I do find it kind of interesting that you mentioned it's even because I'm sort of developing this opinion that I feel like more he deserves a little more criticism because I like part of being a coaches, and just, you know, Xs and os, but also like managing those egos in the in that situation, and I'm not sure it's been done the best y like you mentioned he should pick eight nine guys and go with them. The problem is we operates like he will use everything he has. But that's intern created this kind of. Of weird version of this team. That's not working most of the time. Right. And even came out after a Curry's comments after the Orlando game after Stevens didn't drop the play for him. And Stevens said yeah, I like player feedback. It's good. It's important. And I'm like, dude, you can't be the cool RA right now you have to establish some kind of order so anyway onto my trait. Okay. So this is the one that I woke up in the middle of the night and thought of so just take it with a grain of issue. I was passed out. Okay. So the Celtics don't want to make a trade. They don't wanna get rid of one of their picks. Right. Huge picks because they probably want to save him up. And do you want to say it? I know you wanna say it for. Okay. But in the end in the end, you could argue that the Celtics have already had enough change those kind of need to organize. What's going on? Okay. Meyer argument is that they need to fix the Hayward problem and originally in the middle of the night. I thought maybe they could do that by trading him for Nicole rich. Okay. Now that doesn't work straight up and say, you're gonna ask me what else would you pair onto that? And I'm telling you MAs gov. Could God you this really wasn't the middle of that for a little bit. But I think amount out of year on his deal. Yeah. They have enough have enough to get rid of him. Okay. And then they have the space for eighty. And of course, you have to take advantage of teams like the magic because they're not gonna get free agent. So vuckovich is on an expiring. They want someone like Hayward that just has to be there. Anyway. So we'll will realize that that probably was not going to happen in that. I'd get fired by Bill Simmons percent. Okay. So then I'm thinking, let's go Terry. Right. Like, let's go Terry. Let's get let's get out of it. Yeah. Well, I want him to have a new situation as well. He doesn't seem happy. He's a restricted free agent. They could also lose him as well seems like he's been on the table all season after very ironically, not being on the table for the the other years of his career. We'll just on that point. Like, if if you're worrying about Kyrie like I understand holding onto him until now that that's my only thing shea, exactly. I still think you make the trade for which but with rosier because the magic could resign him right is a restricted free agent than they have their point guard of the future. It's hard for them to bring anyone in. I think it's easy to prey on team. Like the magic you'd still probably have to throw something in. But Bucci is on an expiring. I like the second one more than the first definitely. Just because horford's back and healthy. And like you mentioned I think Baines is a pretty critical part of of what they're doing. If only because he just doesn't need to be fed. He could just kind of throw it in there and just do hold dirty work. I think if I'm Orlando I say to myself, why can I just throw a big offer at Terry in the offseason because things are going to have so many divided options and things to take care of including Anthony Davis. I wonder if you hit them at the right time with a rich enough offer. They already have Marcus smart on the bo- books. Already have Tatum to to pay and think about like years down the road. It's getting pretty pricey. I'm like well because they they wouldn't be able to do it showed up Terry's not paid enough. But also because the Celtics would have to throw in something even have to throw a much don't have to be one of these four coveted picks drag kings, pick the grizzlies pick the clippers pick. And what's so weird about the Celtics is like were. Creating a trade for them out of the need to have a trade to shake things up. And not because we're like, you know, it's not like another team or we're like, oh, they need a winger they need they need a bay. So things don't really like what's like seeing you can see that they need. And it's like, I don't know how I feel about just making a deal for the sake of making the deal. I get that. Like, maybe you do need to move somebody who is perhaps not happy with the role, and that's totally fine. But that's why I have a hard time finding like a like a good deal for them that I'm gonna that. I like because I just don't know what they need. They don't really need anything like out of the ordinary fair. And that's what Terry said they're just to towns. That's I mean, that's what one player on your team is saying, so I agree. I'm saying I like this because Morphou Celtics and he's on expiring. You don't really have a lot to lose. But at the same time, I think that if you're going to change anything to seems to be the need to establish who your guys are enrolled with them and not decide that this is how it was supposed to be these. To max guys these three max who was supposed to be. Okay. We're gonna go to our next team on our our doctor. She would doctors hold like a a log line. A good say clipper, lawyers ammonia Asher, we're going to on the clip inwards. The Los Angeles Lakers Paulo, give us your diagnosis. That's pretty good. The Lakers are in a weird spot. Because you know, you would think that there's gotta be some desperation. I mean, they barely beat the bulls. The other night they have not looked good without LeBron. They don't look anything like a playoff team with all Barton dos. They have fallen out of a playoff team Wellborn. And that's a combination of the decisions they made in the offseason to outfit that Rosser with a bunch of just a weird fit players in Rondo also being out doesn't help. So I'm very careful about kind of making the case that they should go in and make a trade and be desperate. Now. I know that we have, you know, said, you know, the Lakers, Mr. chance, Paul, George, you know, the the Mr. chance with Cooper has the summer, you know, I know we've said that because they haven't been as urgent, but I think this is kind of scenario the way I feel about the Lakers rhino is that this is not an important year. Like, this is a very much a, and I think that LeBron's injury kind of points to that. It's wall, you know, the the re the latest news was that he'll start. Practicing next weekend. Then after that he'll start coming back which is going to silent him for at least six weeks. I think and that's like Hodel in total around there. You know that that's kind of what the reported time line was and remember when he was only supposed to be out like a couple of days. Yeah. I don't know what happened with that. But like there there doesn't seem to be. He says sense of urgency in what how worse does it have to get for there to be that kind of sense of urgency because they have knowledge great without him. So it's clear that they need him. And you know, people are saying, you know, if they're in the playoffs department play. So then what does that say about how he kind of perceives the season? Maybe it's just a few it out season. You know, kinda gra- get his bearings in LA and just get a sense of the place. And I mean because he did on two three year deal with an option. So I don't think they need to go out and make some huge deal to try to win this year or really make a run, you know, I it kind of speaks to their entire situation where it's like they're probably playing for next season yet, they still want to make a good show of things. They wanted to vote there guys, and they probably want up. He's LeBrun exactly. And I just think that this has been a small, but significant indictment of their lack of maybe total development with the young guys. And granted it's hard. It's tough to ask them to spend half a season. Trying to fit in with a one in the second half of the first half trying to then be as productive as they need to be without LeBron there. So I do like the idea. You know, we're we're talk. I do like the idea of him on the Lakers, which is a lot of route shock. Yeah. I mean, I just think would be really exactly what they need. Like lukewarm made a lineup change because he felt he had to and it was essentially swapping out development key for Tyson Chandler, and it's like, that's all you need to know about their bigger station. Right. Throw the guys sue Bosch. Who is very young very inexperienced, very raw. And I think if they were able to get like that would be a very nice second half ad are we out on Jonathan Williams? He's he's gone. You know, I've forgotten. They should give him another run. But he's just in the league right now. So it's like how tough for him. We were really hype on him early. Blog on John. Spelling? Yeah. So I don't know boot. And Casey p maybe you know like that. So for Casey p. Yeah. Just something like I think he's like actually do that. No. I think for the magic you'd probably have to throw in a suite. Yeah. You definitely have to turn something else. But but I'm just saying like he seems a little credit. He's been very important lately. Because Josh heart is not as good on the floor with without LeBron their case he's been a better option because he's a little more of a self starter. But I think eventually Casey feels kind of like the the guy you need to get react Jackley. Yeah. No, I I don't I don't hate that. I think for the magic I think if you could pretend as if you're still going for that eighth seed in some regard. It's like a good thing to sell your fans while simultaneously taking a step back. I think digit foster wrote about this for the ringer about some potential Vic trades, and I think he focused on the clippers and the Lakers, and he had a similar setup to you. Where I forgot who is coming back to Orlando. For to make the salaries matches but tacked on a first round pick because they only have enough young guys. And I do wonder if LeBron wants another young guy on that core. And also our guy mo- Wagner that. Yeah. That would miss I think he would be the like he would make sense type of guy that the Lakers probably aren't gonna use going forward. But it he's the type of stretch big that the the the magic would be losing vote in wouldn't have amongst their crew of thirty long athletic big men, and then they can kind of establish himself as I go here. We're building around baba in Isaac and kind of moving forward to the young team though. I don't know how Steve covered would necessarily feel about that. But can I throw one out there? That's because I was thinking about the Lakers last night a little bit. I feel like to your point. I think that they're in a position where they can try a bunch of stuff. Sure this seat this year is kind of found money, they have LeBron at bet you they're like just raking it in at the gates and just in terms of revenue and all that I feel like they're the type of. Of team that can maybe take a chance on one Mark helpful. It's terrible. This is so the Sixers need to shooter, and it does feel like Josh heart. Although we love him seems like you kind of on the outskirts at this point. I feel like really really well when LeBron is on the court. One of the few guys who has made it work when Laurent's on the court. He hundred percent masseuses. Are you kidding me? Do it in a heartbeat. So basically straight up Josh heart for Marco. No that no, let's see what are the Lakers out. Again, though, this that they could potentially get one of the like the best prospects in the two thousand seven nothing even of quote, unquote, top prospects that there are waiting and trying to get into these superstars I I don't know if you can sell me on this because like heart is way better obviously. Yes, he's actually an NBA player playing an NBA games. I just feel like it's the type of risk reward move that you can afford when you have a LeBron when you have so much of like in terms of like though at the Celtics in terms of assets. But in actual raw young players not just draft picks. And I would I think this make a lot more sensitive like for Casey p because I think he would help the Sixers right now. That that's a good point. I didn't think about this from our Cal because it's just you're taking it to the biggest market the biggest superstar. Yeah. The spotlight grows like a hundred times nearly has such a large when on him. They would be pretty cool to see him. Get back to like top pick talent that he had you know, magin Marquel. Lonzo LeBron your Los Angeles Lakers. I would go. I mean worst case he's in the south bay and he's playing on the south bay. Well, hey, that would be great. I would love to go watch him watching Marquel. And just like a isn't it still the Lakers practice facility? They put like your spreads. But I wanna see that is that food trucks. It's great vibe. Yeah. The the Lakers are still going to be interesting here. We'll see what they're gonna do without. Lebron seems like there's still going to be a lot of Lonzo time going to be some Ingram time in their other playing the funder tonight. I think that's always going to be an interesting game. Just because Paul George is is facing off against the team that he could have been on the other side of the other side of his life that he just didn't know not take it. And that's what I'm Gary ago. I'm really good at this guys. I promise that game is on TNT. That's at six thirty PM Pacific do Pacific time here. We don't do eastern time. I'm done Pacific east coast market. And remember if you wanna watch every NBA game subscribes, MBA leap pastor on MBA dot com. Amazon or your local cable or satellite provider. All right. You guys took all the big markets and all the all the splashy kind of trade talk here. I'm gonna go on the other side of things I'm gonna go with the Memphis grizzlies. I feel like the writing is on the wall with his team. It just feels like they they made a push for it. They were in discussions. For Kelly Oubre, which I think would have ended up like pretty much doing exactly what they need which is a guy who could play on this team, and maybe be a piece going forward. Fortunately, they ended up with Justin holiday. I don't think he's meant made much of a difference there. They are one in nine. I believe in their past ten games. They're already seventh worst in the NBA. I feel like it's time to tank, Marcus. Saul is is saying that potentially will this is a Mark Stein report that he might not opt into his last year of his contract. And all of a sudden, he's a guy that I think you could jettison here in turn toward the future RIP grin got grind Rb grin grind two point. Oh, which we tried for a month? But wasn't all that interesting. So all of my traits. I have three for you guys because I was on the machine on pretty much a lot of fun. A lot of fun in my in my apartment alone on my couch house hunters on in the background. I love throwing their first trade. This is for your guy. Gordon Hayward, so Marcus soul and Garrett temple who you need to throw in there. I think to make the money match for Gordon Hayward. I think it's interesting because for the grizzlies you're not gonna get a lot of free agents down there. So if you want to reboot, but don't want to hard reboot and go back to where you're pretty much in the tank for another couple of years, and I think considering that ownership they're paid to buy out his his other minority owners. I think they don't they can't really bottom out. I think that market is one that kind of waxes and wanes depending on how good the team is. So you really want to sell an attractive product. I think Gordon type of guy you buy low on and hope that maybe next year. He becomes the guy. He used to be in all of a sudden, you have a nice core of Conley. Jaren Jackson junior who we all love and Gordon Hayward as rest only because not a lot of favorites are gonna come. Memphis, right. And I think the castle time seems all done they you know, I think there were hordes that he was gonna test free agency. You know, how from summer show it makes if you can get a player like, hey, we're like, I don't know how the Celtics would feel about that. I think it would have liked to had Ghazal maybe two years ago, but not not anymore. And that's that's tough party. Maybe kind of indictment on the grizzlies for not going this route earlier, but I don't I think that could be interesting both teams feel like that would help them right away. Yeah. It's a little awkward fit with the Celtics. Just because of you mentioned, which they do have a lot of big men. But I do think he's the type of guy who liked Baynes last year. I think you could start him next to Al Horford move four Horford to more of a four spot, which is what he started his career with next to center in palm ISSA, Paul Millsap. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's been a while. And then they're playing bigger upfront in as opposed to what they are now, which is a little bit more stretchy with Gordon kind of flash into the four at certain times. I think it could be interesting definitely mixed print for eighty a little more difficult because ops back into that last year deal Horford also has an option going into next year. So I think like maybe he would be put off in look elsewhere where things so it's a little dicey. But I think it might be interesting for this year. Because also somebody that you could trade again. Yeah, that's another. If he does opted, and you can just gonna send him to San Antonio to hang out with Paul. All right, next one. This. This is the least interesting ones being quickly on this. But it's to our New Orleans. Pelicans solar. You'll come around eventually soul and temple for Julius Randle Solomon hill, west Johnson and a top three protected. First round pick. Good paladins. I don't know. I don't like big assault at that much. But it's interesting. He's he's pretty boogie like in terms of his skill set. Right and less aggressive. I think he would bog down and I've made their best. I mean, I don't know. Maybe the best way to counter the warriors style is to go a little slower. You know, there's always sat. Right. I mean we last season like you said the AD combo. We thought that was going to give the worst trouble. So maybe that's that's kind of the the better way to go. I do like adding temple. I guess I in some way because they do kind of need just more surface players right is concerning the trade away that many assets for the pelicans because they already seemed kind of short handed. Yes, you're not really replacing things that you're getting back. Right. That's why temple in there. Just because as we are going to get into later in the show like it does seem like they needed a small forward. And they haven't had one in a really long time. It's basically a salary dump. And you're getting a I bet. For Memphis, which feels pretty disappointing just because you've gone this far. And all of a sudden, you know, Marcus all is just a salary dump? I'm really interested in intrigued by the fit with a D just because I do think to Powell's point like while they have been at their best with eighty playing more center. I think their way to to raise their ceiling. Little bit would be to to go back to big ball. This last one is my favorite one. Also, not all that sexy. But I think it makes a lot of sense for both ones. And if Lottie developed wants to give me a call and give me an his job at the soul and Sheldon MAC for exact Randolph's, expiring Costa kufo. Six expiring. Harry Giles and one of the more confusing second round pick protections. I've ever seen in my life. Where it's the I think the second most favourable of Cleveland Orlando in Houston next year while essentially this is the kings filling out their lineup and just becoming like. The euro league all star team. They're five who I've blood this team. Just on paper is FOX buddy bogged on Bella Nellie, knob, Illinois, be alita and Marcus oil. How do we feel about this is a lynching? But again, it's the same concept, though, the kings are at their best when they're running and saw what had throw a wrench in that. That's a great point. And. I don't know if they're ready to give up on Johnson. I mean, he's been looking pretty like serviceable. Kings are looking ahead if because all option than that could bog them not. But then again, you could trade chain him again. Sure. But it is interesting to think about what their priorities are. I know that they want to make the playoffs but looking like heading forward do they want to exchange? Some of these young assets have for somebody like, you know, I it's it's kind of unclear to me. I I think I mean Giles in triple j and in Memphis, it'd be pretty fun. If Giles pens out that'd be really that would be a really fun to watch the kings. Do need is rebounding in rim protection yet aspirin early. I think it makes sense for both a grizzlies get nice young big there. I think I'm curious to see if Giles and in triple j I guess is what we're calling him. Now would be able to play together. They get good second round. Pick is probably going to be one of the top couple in the second round. And then Zibo gets to retire grizzly. That's that's the best part about the steel. That's a that's an emotional journey. So I like that. All right. That's a. That's enough from the doctor's office. We're gonna take a quick break and talk some pelicans. This episode is brought to you by the Showtime original comedy series, black Monday from executive producers, Seth Rogan. Evan goldberg. It's nineteen hundred six Wall Street, bad fashion, big hair, and bigger egos, abound. You'll boys club has all the power until an unruly group of underdog freighters decide it's their turn to be on top and accidentally caused the biggest stock market crash in history. Starring Don Cheadle, Andrew grinalds and Regina hall, black money, premiers. This Sunday at ten pm only on Showtime to try a free month of Showtime, go to Showtime dot com and enter code ringer is offers for first time. Subscribers only expires February twenty fourth. And we're back talking about teams at the trade deadline. Some of the more interesting ones, we talked about the kings last week with Riley Makati. I thought at the time they're probably the most interesting team. But the pelicans are New Orleans. Pelicans are pretty similar situation. They're twenty one twenty four right now clinging to the playoff race. They're probably one of the more active teams going into the trade deadline and to talk about them. We brought on a expert live from New Orleans. New Orleans advocates own Scott Kushner, how's it going buddy? I'm good Justice still still missing by USPS partner from back in the day. I know it we were only together on the beat for about a year and a half. But I feel like it stretched about a decade of my life. It felt like a decade. Traumatic eighteen months how of you compensated without me, you know, just written more horrible things horrible team. This is life. That's honestly, what my main takeaway. When I watch a lot of these games, are that everything seems to have changed and yet at the same time, nothing has changed. Because here we are in the middle of the season when they're at their best. They seem like they can hang with most teams in the league. And I think you saw that last night with the way they've kind of pushed the warriors and then they'd beat the clippers the game before. But then other times, it seems like there are completely different team the injuries stack up, and I don't really know what to make of them. I think probably the best place to start here is does that feel same to you just feel like on a history beating self? Yeah. I think writing a column day and the only word that kept popping into my head, which I don't think I should use the newspaper call it's like it's like, oh, they continue to just like push this boulder, and they're not going anywhere. Like, it's the same story over and over again, and it. Like, I don't know two hundred and forty points in forty eight minutes last night at watched crazy. Crazy. And it's crazy. It's just like it's this convergence of opportunity and luck that just never work at the same time together, and they just like work against them constantly. And it's like there's always feels like every franchise has like this this chance, and they kind of make it, you know, like the this liver opportunity comes up, and they find a way to pounce on it and this team everytime. That's live of opportunity comes up they find a way to completely fail. And I it's so strange as to why that continues to happen. And this particular, I think is the most disappointing for a lot of people just because it looked like finally things kind of come together last year. And there were so many good vibes entering this off season. And then, you know thing with the markets happens. But look like they had compensated for it fairly. Well, there was a ton of optimism when they started for. No. And then like everything that has ever. Gone wrong for this team. Like, it was the just rinse repeat we've seen all this one hundred times more, right? Yeah. Even even just from a statistical standpoint their third on offense twenty fifth and defense. That was always the thing that struck me the most is that somehow with Anthony Davis. Probably the best two way player in the league. They still can't find that correct balance where they're good on both ends it really kind of came down to that stretch last season after they lost bogey where they're able to kind of meld the two with Nico playing off of a d do you think a lot of the fact that they're back in the reverting back to that sort of flawed structure, I guess or hover you want to say, it, you think that's because Niko has been hurt so much this year. Help. But he hasn't missed you know, fifty percent of the season. He's missed, you know, thirteen games fourteen games. Like that. I just I don't know exactly what the reason is that the drop office so drastic defensively 'cause they were like a top five defense in the second half last season. And that's without the market. And you know, it's just like you mentioned there, drew Holiday Inn. Anthony Davis our first team all NBA all defense. I mean that is crazy to have a team that's twenty fifth and defend two guys like that to very high plus guys overpaid and not a bad defender. Julius randle. Not a good defender. And all I do think that is hurt them more than they probably antiquated, but it shouldn't account for this much for problem. The fact that don't have a traditional three I think hurts them from time to time defensively, particularly in certain match ups like against the warriors, for example. But there's really. Not huge explanation other than they have been banged up. And they just haven't played very hard defensively a lot of times. And I think it's really hurt him this year, Scott, I don't know if you've heard this before, but they haven't had a true three since Quincy pond, Dexter. Go back to Trevor REEs, quite frankly seriously in this day and age if you don't have those type of players up and down your author you're going to struggle in for them. They had to kind of piece together different lineups going with three guards at times. Play more. Big guys. They're doing a little bit of the Niko. Randall a D lineup, right? Yeah. It's a lot. They're doing some of that. It's not a ton mean ninety just got back game to go. It's really more that every time your holiday or Anthony Davis when mostly everytime holiday steps off the court at the dumpster fire on defense. It is a complete disaster. I think they're I mean, he's gotta have the one of the biggest spreads of plus minus you know, on and off the court in the league. I think it's like twenty one point based on when he's on and off and he hasn't missed a game this season. So it's not as if that's being, you know, if you buy sample size, or, you know, it's it's just bad. They really don't have anyone else can do anything. Like he does. And it's in one half because Kerala as and excellent player. He's definitely a huge contributor. Then both ends. But it's also really expose their debt and exposes just how few options at Alvin gentry has that are actually reliable. I mean, he's playing in Fraser at least in the last couple of games. He's playing Frazier a ton of minutes, and it's just because he has no other offense. Tim Frazier cut. I'm walkie right Hct, and he got added in the day the season started. It's not I mean, these are bad option that he's having a run out in the back court, and it's clearly a huge problem. And it does hold them back. And it's a reason that they keep losing all these close games is that they boost. So they lose just tons of ground all these games in the middle of them. 'cause they're benches so bad. I know we mentioned there. So people have mentioned before kind of the switch from last season going from Rondo del for pain. But I'm wondering, you know, up close how an opinion's been a little injured. But is he that much of has even that much of a drop off? From Rondo that that that's also hurting on because I guess when I look at the team. I'm also thinking like where else are they gonna? I like you said the three position is a problem, and it's always been. But if they don't make a move like where where else should they man more from is from Payton. Yeah, I think Peyton not the issue. The issue is Peyton missed thirty games. And that really hurt than their record with Alfred is is, you know, winning at the clip that fifty one team or fifty five one team key is not, you know, came not answer. I think at point guard. I don't think quite as good as Rondo, but he fills most of the role that Rondo does on the floor. I think he's probably a runs a little bit better than him as far as getting up and down being able to actually stop people and get in front of them. It's you know, he does not have that leadership. He doesn't exude those type of qualities that. I think this team misses a lot especially in close games. Even though around and play a lot in this close games. He did provide them some confident provided them some tangible that I'm not sure they totally realized how much they would miss when he was gone. I think there was a lot of expectation and holiday was ready to kind of carry that leadership role by themselves. And I bet might have been a bit premature or just a bid asking too much at a guys who are not those types of personalities and so- Rondo that is an interesting situation because there's a lot of stuff there that doesn't necessarily have to do with. You know, what are you can look at a spat what you can look at an on off. And even what you can see is replaced by alpha Peyton who's a really quiet guy and someone who's well like, but not not carry the command and the respect that Rondo does. That was my only reason why I was critical losing Rondo like, I I definitely recognize all his flaws, especially on the defensive end. And it seems like he's hurt every year. Now, he misses twenty or so games. But it just seemed like in this critical of. A season where eighty was obviously going to go into the summer and make a pretty big decision in terms of his long-term status. They're like why you would rock the boat there. I guess ultimately they didn't have to sit like shouldn't to make because the Lakers offered Rondo such huge contract. But it was disappointing in that the one time that they seem to have something going for them. It just kinda got disrupted, especially with the way bogie kinda just left in in the middle of the summer. It really bothered a lot of people in the pelicans to the way that it happened with Rondo I think coaching staff really wanted him back that was a huge point of contention. And I don't think it's so much Dell's fault I think he'd probably could've played it more aggressively dealt general manager, he's not a household name. I would this up. But. Well, we we know about him dealers L. Yeah. Organ for a little Asian. It's been a while. You know, I think I think he probably Rondos come out and said as much which is still the pelicans could have been more aggressive at the onset of all this. But when it came down to it that Lakers offer, I think was going to be his best offer, regardless. Now, he might say that he would take less money or whatever it was. Maybe there are more years from the pelicans. But they really were not position to offer really any bore. Then what they did. And quite frankly, they needed to fill the role that DeMarcus cousins left behind and that was the Julius Randle signing. So a lot of ways it all makes sense. But it is it is the the problem you have when everything you do is based on these one year contracts that you run into this single year that they're constantly trying to figure out how to plug holes. And if they turn this around and have a great second half of the season again and they rolled into the playoffs. And everything was good. You still gotta figure out a way to try to sign you ca- marriage. Try to sign up for. Peyton and try to send Julius Randle, and it's pretty much impossible not to mention bringing it that he Davis back. So you know, I may not always gotta try gotta try to get into signed extension. Just you know, why? So it's it's just like there's a million balls in the air all the time. And there's just doesn't feel like there's much of a long-term plan when it comes to how this is going to look going forwards, and I guess the one flip side of that is their aggressiveness. How bold they've been the past deadlines is really paid off them, obviously, bogey two years ago. We saw that one firsthand. And then last year, it seemed like Niko meal. Trish was probably one of the better trades was executed at the deadline considering what they paid up for him. They also got off of O'Mara xix contract, which was pretty helpful going forward. Do you see that same thing happening going into this deadline that they're going to be aggressive and try to make something happen? They've been very aggressive over the past. You know, few months they want to make something happen. They want to improve the team any idea that they're going to trade a D at the deadline and start over anything like that is wrong. I mean, something could drastically change us oppose the next few weeks, but their focus is entirely on getting the team better and trying to get into position where they can make a run into the postseason, and, you know, make some noise and think that that is going to be the thing that triggers enough optimism and Anthony Davis that you know, he'll sign to be the richest player in the history basketball that seems far-fetched at the moment. But it is possible. If you make the right move, and yeah, the Niko deal was great. I think that worked out perfectly for them. But again, you know, sacrifice a first round pick. And now you have a free agent on your hand coming up this summer. And it's just kind of the continuation of a cycle that draw always losing these picks. And you're always getting kind of good. Player in the short term. But it's hard to make to, you know, keep that guy going forward, and you never really have quality players on cheap deal, which has been their biggest flaw, and it's why they're depth is always so limited having said that you know, I've been telling me guys the past few weeks believe it or not I've been a big optimist just because they're back at full strength. Then look good when they have all of their starters in there. It makes a lot of sense. It reminds me much more of last year than earlier in the season. I don't know. I mean, that's the end of the day. They still have to top twenty five players. And I do wonder if they get into the mix here if they find that wing or maybe like another plus ball handler who's like a pretty big upgrade from Payton who could play off drew, really. Well, I do wonder kind of like how much they can climb here. Do you think like, I guess first of all what do you think they're going to focus on? And if so do you think that they could get into the mix for the top four in the last four seems like a stretch, but just because of the teams earn front of them. You're such a hater sky. Why are you session? Really good teams in there really are problems. And and you're right. I completely agree with you that like when they're healthy that they can be really good. And that's what they've all kind of said the whole year is like, well, we have been healthy. And so we don't know we are and all this kind of stuff, and it's like not a lot of teams are healthy. It's really hard to be healthy the whole year. Like that doesn't happen. Very often where you're not having ten to twelve game stretches without your guys. Now, they've had it worse than some other teams like because pain is so much time and bear much time. Drought has played every single game. You know, Anthony Davis missed four. So it's not as if they're this. You know, there's superstars are getting hurt. It's not like losing, Chris Paul Houston has it is, you know, they're they're healthy right now. So we'll kind of see what they have. And I think that will give him a good idea of what they needed the trade deadline, but there's no guarantee that stays together. I mean someone's gonna get hurt in the next forty something games or thirty eight games. It just doesn't seem like a feasible plan to say, okay. As long as everyone stays healthy. I think we're going to be pretty good because it just has never happened in the history of this team. And to think that it's going to happen now just is a little unrealistic. Yeah, I get I guess my my reason for optimism is just as feels like they just need depth if they just had two or three guys to line the back end of the roster. Then all of a sudden if you lose Nico for a couple of games, if you lose a pain won't matter as much and agreed. And so I do wonder if their answer is in, you know, a superstar isn't an Kevin love type, obviously he's hurt, but he's not gonna so he's not gonna be in the mix or like, Marcus soul. Type. It's actually getting obeys more plus like at the Andre Bemberg some of these other guys in the mix there. Yeah. I mean, there's a ton of options when you start especially if you start to see some of these teams fall out of the playoff picture a little bit. And they're you know, pelican's I would be shocked if they don't create a pick mom this year. Eve regardless of what happens over the next two weeks. It just seems like that's something that that is going to be their best asset that they can give up and yet there's I mean there's enough guys out there. And it's hard to know, exactly. What direction they're going to go in? But. Di Di of them bringing Eden either a ball handler who can help out Peyton in holiday off the bench. And that seems like it would not be terribly expensive thing to get somebody like that who would eliminate you having to play Tim Frazier in those type of guys, and then if they can be the shot at the moon that they want to take that they're trying to take is to go get Bradley Beal realistic. It seems really hard for them to be able to pull that off. But that's the kind of move that is a game changer that can really make them and a team that can keep Anthony Davis here. And there is so I mean, they went after Jimmy Butler, really hard. And that was a very real thing that happened. It's not as if they're sitting on their hands trying to do, you know, nothing and see what happens in may. They're going after talent. I don't know what they can get. They don't have a ton of assets that anybody really wants except for that for Trump pick and some bad. Contracts that will eventually expire, Bradley Beal Frank Jackson. I'm like really into Frank Jackson. Like, Ben Johnson. That is brings a lot of energy. I I maybe I'm a little biased because I watched them work out a little bit the summer with the holidays, and he was like extremely effect to the point where like even like, drew and just war like an off how to key. He could be. So I'm glad he's getting more minutes. So and so Julie loca for and I think both those guys have helped them a lot off the bench that they can guys they can turn to that aren't just retreads in the league. And you know, like are just floating around for that, you know, last couple years or whatever before they fall off like Frank Jackson is someone who has a huge potential. I mean, he was as close as you get to a first round pick. They traded up to it commit thirty one. He's incredibly athlete like you said he can shoot I still obviously broad because he's a rookie. And then you have Julie local for who is playing a lot better off than I ever expected. I and looks a lot more like the guy who came in as a top ten pick. You know? Still obviously, a slow and those kinds of things, but you have guys with some talent back. There can do some stuff. It's just limited. And you can't rely on it too much. And it's why holiday Davis playing more minutes. Anybody of league is because they just don't have a whole lot of guys back there. You can trust for long stretches or check the yellow it's been rough. Yeah. He was Kanda saluting last year. He was in such a good mood. And now he's just buried. It's incredible. How he's never put weight on. He just seems like the same way that he started like as a rookie three years ago. He can you plays very hard. And that's the one thing that really get from him plays. Very hard was talking about a boogie quickly. He's coming back on Friday. I know that's kind of something. We're all excited about you spend what about two years with them. Yeah. About era guest. He's in a half. It was it was a eventful. Disables? Yeah. I was I was only there for his first half. After he got traded there at the deadline. What was your what's your best? Boogie story, Scott as you could tell on air. He'd unbelievable man really hard like in elite full of a lot of boring guys. And this team has had a lot of boring. God. That's not necessarily in a bad way. Like, they have kind of good citizens. But like the boring. He was just the best because he isn't saying. And I mean key literally he was in the locker room after the word, so he's a big Alabama football fan and during the national championship game. I mean, he was like cursing out the he was in the line. He cleared out the entire locker. No one else was in the media in hand. And he did not stop cursing and yelling at the TV for like two full hours watching the game. It dude dire time he is. She doesn't care when anybody really thinks of him. He is always out there. I mean, I've heard stories then just kind of driving through neighborhoods Orleans handing out cash to people who were down there. Lock keep weird weird situation. Like, just not at all what you would think with him. And then something that you would totally expect them where he's just like screaming guys on the practice court. Who definitely didn't do anything wrong to him. And almost getting in fights for no reason. I mean, like he is this dichotomy that is very interesting to be around, but also exhausting at the same time. That was really good way of putting it I found him to be among the most charismatic people like I've ever been around. And like we're running a lot of. Yeah. NBA players like LeBron's the world. There's something about him. I think part of it is because you want him to like you so much because. If he doesn't like you. He will hate you. Oh, yeah. He's got the scowl that you know, as you can see from a hundred miles away if he doesn't like somebody. Yeah. And so there's just that in and out quality with him. I just remember one point I have two things which are one. He really liked my Jordan's when I bought them was probably who was a highlight of my reporting career just being validated by DeMarcus cousins on my fashion. And the other one was him just randomly wanting to talk about Lonzo ball. He just was. Was just really curious. Why people like Lonzo? And I remember when I asked him who he thought was a good draft prospect because his leading into that draft. He was like bam at a bio who is like his best friend from Kentucky. And it was like that makes. There are a lot of other boogie stories like that. But I'm not sure a lot of them are are good for. What are you wrote in that mardi gras parade in war of the panties on his head? I think that was like that was like his first week in New Orleans. Yes, he was drinking like straight out of the bottle and his hand had panties on his head. Yeah. It was just riding down canal street full of glory in a lot of not care less in a lot of ways. I think he took like he represented the city in a way that AD couldn't just from a personality standpoint. Obviously, I think eighty like he clearly is done right by the city and has been a great player for them and probably one of the best tractions. So they'll have in that basketball stadium is just there's something about bogey does personality just jibed with it. I mean, he's from nearby. And so I don't know if it's a southern thing or just like that kind of good nature, like southern hospitality or anything. But there's something about him that he immediately blended. Yeah. He didn't shirt, man. There's really I mean, they were still there when they played Sacramento for the first time, and he literally wouldn't start the interview until like two TV reporters from Sacramento left the locker room. He was like talking until these two guys leave. I do remember. I think I think leading into that game. He wore a hat from his own clothing brand that said loyalty and also on his way, there was a signal said loyalty, and he pretended because probably someone told him to tread carefully about what you say about him. He he just likes. He would not answer the question. He just kept repeating play hard. And we're going to go out there with the biggest telling smile I've ever seen on his face. It was incredible. He's out there, man. I don't know how that's gonna work, but I know about his divorce from New Orleans, though, quickly has everything kinda repaired there. I mean, what what is the status of like him in the organization that you can get a sense of. Is fine. It sounds like based on everybody. I've talked to from his side. Which is you know, limited interaction everybody that from the pelicans side seems to be fine with him with the exception of the front office. And he seems to be fine with everyone except the front office. There was a very clear delineation and what they thought of each other entering free agency this year. I, you know, he famously told Marc spears that he never got an offer from the pelicans, which is technically true. But isn't really true? I mean, they did they had come to an agreement of what the contract they were going to offer him was, but they didn't call them on the first day, and they kind of let it linger there, and they kind of tried to see what the market was going to be like for DeMarcus he found that certainly insulting. And then he went and kind of made the move on his own to go to Golden State. So it was you know, he felt disrespected by the front office for sure which he thought. He's still deserves to be max player 'cause they told him, you know, when they traded for him and everything afterward that he was going to be a mask guy. He was the future of the team always kind of stuff. And then the second he got hurt. They had they and they probably smartly changed their calculus on it. But I think that bothered him. And I think the way they handled it then basically telling you know, ESPN, which ran it just unfiltered from DeMarcus then he never got an offer which made del look kinda dumb, but wasn't really true. And so I think there's there's definitely some mixed messaging there, and there's some hard feelings between those two, but Alvin gentry always stands up for DeMarcus and always has Anthony Davis still really likes markets and always at they know who he is. They know kind of insane parts of him. But there I would not say the divorce was ugly. I think there's still a section of the fan base. It's still mad at him. But it's pretty small, and it's, you know, I don't think it's particularly relative. Storyline. Most people anymore. Yeah. Well, it is here because we love the pelicans. Actually, what's funny is that you do something for so long. You almost can't divorce yourself from it. And I get shit from people here. Because all I want to talk about is the pelicans because I'm like, the only. Interested in them this. I think they're fascinating. I think like I've always said this if they played in a bigger market their palace intrigue is just as interesting as like the Lakers or some of these other teams it is. And it is totally different that they just play in a small market. And there the third biggest team here. And it's like we're the fifty second biggest market and then the third biggest team in the fifty second. Mark. It's like they just don't get the level of breathless coverage that other teams do and it is this season is like this critical juncture this unbelievable. You know, inflection point in the history of this franchise, and like no one is paying attention because the saints are really really good. It's like this weird like they're gonna pay attention. I know like the second the saints seizes over it's going to be a really big deal, but it's really hard to gain attention from the league because the people here don't seem to be totally worried about it. I mean, they Anthony Davis thing has been covered all from the angle of is he going to LA or is he going to Boston? And not from the angle of is what are the pelicans going to be able to get return? We'll be able to rebuild this team. Will they be able to keep him? Like, it doesn't ever feel like New Orleans even matters in that conversation all about kind of what the other side is gonna get. They've had how many years to make it matter. Totally. Yeah. I mean, it's completely their fault. I mean, they had been that's why this season was so important to be like, okay. Last year. You made yourself relevant. Can you make yourself relevant going forward? And they haven't so far. So you know, it's totally earned. It's just that they do feel totally irrelevant piece of league. Sometimes it, what's what's. Second in the sports hierarchy is LSU gymnastics LSU. Baseball. The entire LSU sports arena into their. All right. That's I think that's that's a start. Star twice. Get anything. You can drive LSU gymnastics on the record got. It's time to wrap it up. Do you guys wouldn't believe it, but LSU gymnastics to lane and LSU baseball is just huge down there. And I Don or stand it. They are not bigger than the delicate LSU in the Felker. Okay. Okay. I guess. All right. That's it for us for Haley for Paolo for Scott for Bobby Wagner. And from me. We'll see next good ball is very good. Gary.

Gordon Hayward Los Angeles Lakers LeBron Celtics Anthony Davis Rondo Marcus Scott Kushner Ben Johnson grizzlies Al Horford Orlando New Orleans basketball Peyton clippers Terry Brad Stevens NBA Chris Paul Houston
NOP Outlook w/ Mason Ginsberg; Ethan Strauss on LeBron/Kerr/China; BRK Outlook w/ Brian Lewis

Dunc'd On Basketball Podcast

1:58:16 hr | 1 year ago

NOP Outlook w/ Mason Ginsberg; Ethan Strauss on LeBron/Kerr/China; BRK Outlook w/ Brian Lewis

"Also might guess from the title of the podcast that you clicked on when you began to play in a bring in old pal Mason Ginsburg get to talk about these guys our time to talk the team that I've been most excited to watch in preseason you might guess the New Orleans Pelicans they've tried to do for him a lot of ATO's they're bringing him out of the corner having a guard set the screen Danny I talked about that a little bit last week really really good how's he looked on the defensive end of the forty you that's definitely silhouetted progress he's I don't think there's much concern haven't really seen any kind of like straight post ups for him at all we haven't seen him handling the ball a ton in transition yet but yeah I mean it's it's looked and fishermen did finishing I mean there's a reason the guy shot like what was it seventy seven percent on twos or something last year at Duke I mean he's like shooting over seventy percent in eighteen from the field and I mean they're not even really like getting the ball that much I think I tweeted this the other day that the sooner they figure out that he's their second best player on the ball I mean at this point relatively speaking I mean he's not good defensively yet and off off the ball he's getting lost a lot it's it's typical rookie stuff I think Like I mean what Zion is doing any time he gets the ball in space against a big especially when they've been moving him to center I mean he's going at guys like Rigo Bayer and scored just how yeah they're gonNA start designing some place for him but they don't need to and he's can go get twenty points and I don't think we expected that this quickly yet seems like really the only thing that how does he look in the preseason let's talk about it i WanNa talk right out it's been a it's been a hell of a few games I mean it's in front of him in the slightest especially gets ahead of steam up it's really just been grow and he doesn't even really have a right hand yet either but he's still able to go either direction are and frankly offensively maybe even their first best player the better off they're going to be because you know this brandon ingram dribble around take more shots than Zion under but the idea that he is going to be the anchor the defense switch everything monster I'm not saying that can't happen but I think it's more likely than not that it does I mean alternately nothing that's going to be a huge make people think that he's worse off than they expected but it's certainly work in progress on that end yeah and I think to me like you you go in with these expectations of these guys that are supposed to be the next big thing and you try to be as level-headedness possible but realizing they might be yep we we we knew we were getting defensive monster we didn't know how quickly his office of game will come around and I don't think we really figured it out in the preseason but we sure figured it out fantasy like on steals he can just cover so much ground so quickly that if a guy turns his back to him something he can go in and pick pick the ball away of there's a loose ball he can go grab it but just they're supposed to be the next big thing and Zions really man he's lived up to every everything we've expected so far it's kind of like a d because duck when I came onto the scene two thousand twelve the preseason he's taking a few jumpers to this really awesome yeah yeah I mean the one that sticks out and you mentioned Rudy Gobert it's it's not just the dunks it's that how acrobatic yeah them and really you know the playbook has been for a lot of these guys I compared him to Y- honest for instance like where okay the guy can't shoot I just I haven't seen like a ton of work from him as a help defender really at the rim getting his chest in front of Gaza maybe that's something that can come on the awareness level has not been the stuff that maybe you didn't see quite as much at Duke but I mean there's always so much more talent in the NBA your all your flaws you're gonna get exacerbated but he catches l use but but yeah yeah yeah so it's certainly been a trait and and to your point I mean ear but was ion has even taken to the first game of the regular season it's been four preseason games and he's just been dominating yeah I mean some of these Games twelve obviously been his fixing his jump shot and so that's I think that's obviously an exaggeration you'll just fixing jump shot it doesn't happen overnight but they've been working you know he's working with someone like draymond green to whom he's been compared the will you know I think part of that is just the lack of length but yeah I mean I'm not saying he's going to be like a terrible and I think he can be okay but I think it might be kind of more along the lines like Blake Griffin who gets a bunch of steals early career Blake Griffin than you know a game changing wrong and he's so quick he's so explosive that he's actually even when the center is trying to wait there at the rim form he's still able to get an angle autumn and finish around him and threaten these guys can't St so you can pack offering you kind of wait for at the Rim he get his get your chest on them if you're a senator you can kind of stay in front of enough to to make life difficult but the problem is he's so strong what the shooting coach in New Orleans to to really Fred Vinson's been helping a lot on on that front and so you've already seen some of the form changes but something you've got to practice it day in day out to make it second nature almost to really get it to a point where you feel comfortable not just when you're wide opening a game but really he's they haven't had to run a ton of place for him just like I I remember seeing that tweet for you and we've been talking about a little bit some of the other guys that they're right with on Bernie shots the nets and bolts help rotations and he doesn't have a tunnel length I mean there have been a lot of plays where he kinda been in the area and hasn't particularly affected the shot you know the already at pretty good levels for the NBA at an area shot looks a lot better I think he's not entirely consistent on it yet I thought in the I mean I think we've seen a lot to like what's with Lonzo his he's throwing a few whether it's the open practice the Pelicans ad or the preseason Games would Zion so he's certainly the Talibans are not going to be shy from the three point line almost no matter who shooting Brandon Ingram so mixed bag here I think the your big pick and roll threat is probably still years away if it's ever GonNa happen but I mean just having him hit shots and be a real threat out there has to be guarded I think it was the third preseason game the first home game that he kind of looked off balance a little bit on some of those were kind of doing the more fade away when he's on the move and trick is going to be for him really adjusting to Alvin gentry system I think I think he he seems willing to really to he's from all the a high pressure situation where you're just catch catch and shoot you don't have to think twice about it so you know I I I think that he's already showing signs also at the free throw line he with the guys who have come in just to maybe give it a few points on their preseason so far star with Lonzo Ball Yeah so the big story with Lonzo be a high volume three point attempt guy that would be a very nice step forward for him if I can occur the season yeah yeah and I think I mean that's already been a focus point for New Orleans as a whole is that comments from Griffin from Gentry is very coach and he wants he wants to be a a guy who makes a difference for this team that said it's and he's not really I'll take ever going to be that great I mean just kind of Funky form on floaters he's doesn't really know the tricks get in the line as having him be for most of the guys in this Rosser seems like if you're open shoot it and so I think maybe they're over torquing there in the preseason but it's been it's been a theme I'm just learning learning how to play together perspective let's hit on some of these new guys as young as we drew holiday as a but defensive force but you know I mean he does have some tools and he's a as we talked about many times unique player so it could be I'm not foreclosing on that necessarily sure sure yes it's still early enough and also I think something we'll certainly talk about is that this team has just it's a all these guys are playing together for the first time and so that's GonNa come on some issues to from a communications lot to prove from what he wasn't Los Angeles versus what he's going to be here in New Orleans but so far again kind of kind of a mixed bag from him his game hasn't fit perfectly so far I think he's kind of you mentioned it at the start of the podcast but he's he's the ball little bit but also I think it's yeah I think in the preseason already made he went five for five from the line and made five three throws for the first time since high school are something like that and so ultimately is fourth year now but you know a slow decisions not really able to blow by his man you know a lot of kind of working into the mid range he's stepping in quick couple quick dribbles pull up rise up over the defense it's really multiple dribble staying on the ball and because he's not beating his man he's not forcing we can stop a random but he's not really achieving much separation and then he'll kind of get there and not necessarily take the shot right away either at this is not okay he's a work in progress to for just fitting again fitting with the rest of the guys and I just I struggled to make any definitive claims after a few preseason games obviously he's a guy who has the time to get his feet under him he can kinda still shoot more from that left side of his body and also I think attacking the Rim getting into two point range I mean that that's something that defenses able to recover I find myself wishing that they would just put Zion in that role let Zion be the guy who's GonNa be catch those hit ahead passes in transition and let him attack from the wing and good isolation player and he was I think around tenth or eleventh in the NBA last year in points for possession isolation that being said that's one point per possession connecting with with with the majority yeah and that's really for Lonzo is going to be the swing skill at the defense I think is solid the passing the transition those are all instead and so it just the ultimate and finding myself just too much brandon ingram not enough Zayn Williamson has been my thought so far early on here yet so in a vacuum it's not it's not super efficient but he's a guy who go get a bucket and that can be useful when the game slows down late and especially with the younger get there and he has to go slow and he has to spin or he has to do a long looping crossover and his guys still in front of maybe he can shoot over on but that's a mid range yeah he's been a little too rose any in kind of a bad way though he doesn't have quite the jumping ability or the strength of Derosa obviously just going into it seems like Jj redick and jerk favors those are those acquisitions or two of the reasons that I was really high on the PELS coming in doesn't really seem like seem like New Orleans but but yeah he's there's definitely that's that's putting it in a more positive light but there's there's been definitely been some areas he can he can work on it's like to see more of it I think he can become a solid shooter you and hope but yeah I think in particular it's not quite the way they want to do things moving the ball quickly because ov which is the ability to create for himself in isolation and I was talking a little bit about it the day or two ago as the fact that you know he's a he's a nate three or four guys in terms of minutes on the team but I really I was I was scared about this team being able to generate offense without any real shooters on the floor and so fair enough and and I think that's a that's a good assessment to todate I do think that he does provide something that the Pelicans is a team maybe don't have it they've been featured that much so far favors in particular offensively you know this doesn't seem to be that pick and roll heavy of team of you know it's not spread pick and roll the way anything has been a hot topic over the summer but it looks like he's GonNa come off the bench yeah what's your feeling on whether he should start it up so I've been back so a Lotta Times there aren't obvious passes to be made for him so I think I have seen pass up a lot of three pointers he's been a little more aggressive in that area so far I may be able to euro step guy but adopt Ben Tillerson a nice video on him of how he's not really beating his man over to the rim he's still get he'll throw it to him on the wing and then it all grinds to a halt right as he's kind of you know if he has an opening he might be able to get there but he'll get to the free throw line he kind of doesn't create an advantage everything you know the they have so many other threats aside for really all grindstone the thing that it's been it's been used a lot is drew holiday Lonzo ball those guys both love to hit the ball ahead and with his time for his size is also pretty young and so just seeing don't got pen and just yeah he doesn't really don't got me will you know thirty four games that fear looks to be not as much of a concern because they're just pushing the pace like crazy and even after made shots they're doing whatever they can to avoid the half court offense and really I I guess is such that at this point you want to get him his medicine and let him shoot but not super worried about is is roll on the question of whether or not he's a starter or sixty push the tempo and score quickly or get shots quickly But I do worry as as Steve starts a scout them as that season contract John will the floor yes gets a couple of things preseason number one also favours wasn't perfectly healthy to start the craziest and need a little play or he was supposed ahead point guards and they didn't have any twos or threes so they kind of had those their best players being on the floor But like I mean drew holiday just like some Awesome Guy Fourth Ingram as as the starting lineup it will it's interesting to me I I would have thought that would be the more natural Lonzo ball replacement than Ingram because Ingram's but it it it just it seems like they're gonNa Start Lonzo and and anger and live with the spacing issues I've never understood this obsession with holiday being off the magic part of it was just so yeah I would have thought it would be rettig instead of ball but rhetoric is no stranger to coming off the bench in behind heralded twenty seventeen alongside drouin and guard a few different positions that I think that was manageable and so I think they had the the Pelicans choose rather keep drew at the at the two and have Lonzo run APPs in you know can you create enough space with that starting lineup and so it's I think it's still an open question but it does seem like they're going with it they're going to go enforced on this and I gotta say I was more in team registered starting to come off the bench with with the cab important caveat that I still think Ingram's one of the top maybe three opportunities out of the hands of better players the reality is they don't really have anyone else who can defend that position that's a as a longtime pels watcher you know going back to each one more At three or Josh Heart would be the the bus other option in heart is kinda struggled in the preseason it looks to maybe danger of being out of the rotation entirely to start things the only guy they have guard opposing players you know that that really as much as I might carp about him offensively I'd like to play a little bit differently I think he's taking the towards the end of the season a couple of years ago when he was playing with Rondo ended up coming off the floor for decent parts of the fourth quarter but I think it's more of maybe it's less about him not being I play in the open practice they had with fans and then he didn't he policeman playing kind of inconsistent that's I'm not too concerned about it I think just being careful and then with draft point guard prospects yeah it's I I guess my dog was they really liked your off the ball and and having that pierpoint and he's he's got enough size I think sleet and I'm sure there'll be plenty of time Lonzo as the backup point can play with the second unit some as well how about the backup wing situations office screens that I'm not aware of up like he's like an on ballplayer understand why he needs to play off the ball what do you think the thinking is there yeah it's I you can shoot it but he hasn't been able to affect the game a ton of other ways and so but I do think he will get minutes to start and upheld they'll allow him to try to prove himself and if he having him as the it's funny you say that because kind of down the stretch and games he was he was running the point pretty frequently with the regime Rondo caveat there and even because I think it changes as the season goes on I think I think more will start out getting getting minutes for this team I mean that I think it was generally made a comment that he wants more to shoot six three per game Ranna in Utah as the back of JJ's been coming off the bench Are you worried at all the the weather using these guys or you think that's just an artifact to appreciate Walker is GonNa take some guys minutes and and he plays with so much lower he certainly looks great out there you know the question whether the ball's going to go in for particularly from three point range and whether he can be efficient is a question but I mean he use religiously very talented picket role operating makes plays defensively certainly has the highest upside of that sure and I guess you can throw Frank Jackson into that too between Jackson Heart Keel Alexander Walker and each one more put the those guys in order of how many minutes do you think they'll play this year so that's Jackson Heart more and Nikiel exander yeah so I think it's the reason that's a group of guys that was mentioned I think and so I think they would ultimately for the long term future of the franchise all these guys have other than more have some who defended him on twitter yesterday but and but for heart I'm a little troubled that you know he's had still reports of sorts wonderful I think it was the Summer League Mvp in twenty eighteen and then just hasn't really looked like the same guy on either under the floor but still has a skill set that you think could really fit in didn't play and make a positive impression but obviously you know that was a real struggle and I think he was like twelve week timeline when he first got injured which was like a very or ahead that surgery which was so he's got he's got a role in it's just it's tough to figure out between between him rank and and kill a walker who's GonNa Start with the minutes and I think I think the S. and so I think it's GonNa play lots of start I think minutes Wayne at an shift towards some of the other guys as the season goes on it doesn't stick I don't think they'll have much of a problem going with Nikiel Walker instead because he's had a heck of a summer league a heck of a so I realized that was kind of a one having another guy who can take some of the ball handling responsibilities off his plate and having a cut at at worst to Combo Guard other Combo guard alongside him but you know he's he's out a rookie scale deal and maybe you have radic slows down or more moves on or something it might be kind of a next year thing for him or he's GonNa have to wait for injuries but he seems like he's almost at the bottom of that that pecking order at this point time to me yeah yeah it really might be the case in I do I would agree with that assessment at this point in time for for sure and I think maybe I the one thing I've been thinking about some of the guys who covered this team have to is they got to figure out what got Frank Jackson sooner rather than later and if he's a real rotation guy or not and he's been good with the ball in his hands popout my answer clearly rank them but I feel like it's going to change this the progressive as if that makes sense yeah Andrew Lopez the newly minted ESPN beat reporters been saying he thinks Nikki Alexander on Josh Heart It's it's really figure out what his role is going to be it's like you say he's guy is the guard position five he can defend a little bit even in the post and talk about him but I think another guy to consider not a guard but someone who may be playing some minutes on the perimeter for them as as coach Williams because I think he's had a pretty good y'all long time for that sort of a knee issue so that means it's going to take him a while to get back to campus to me hasn't looked like the same player since really the start of last year that for me just from an athletic standpoint you know he doesn't look completely overmatched switches fear with that archetype of player coming over from Europe. Yeah yeah he's been a lot of fun to watch and you can tell me he's a rookie with I'm using air quotes with that 'cause he's twenty eight years old and he's been playing pro basketball for a little while and I the I mean that's when we've Seen Zion look at his most unstoppable in that five outs of now are you gonNa stop anybody with a Melis Island Zayn Williamson Front court it'll stop her on the wing even though he does have that that level of size front court rotation nuclear Meli and Williamson they've been playing those two guys together eventually like Pricey preseason to and I think he he brings a lot of the intangibles to the to the team as a guy who could defend who can rebound who's really not even looking for his own of where Jackson Hayes is at this point they're number eight overall pick came after one year from Texas yeah and I think that was always kind of going to be the plan in Newark even if it's not a pure point and just having him be able to play off the ball and not have to worry about the offense collapsing when he's the volunteer and yeah I I see that point I think Lonzo is a good player option shot at all is not gonNa take any possessions away from anyone else and so I think he's a guy who's ahead of heart in the rotation too so I I agree it might be tougher to get minutes to start out and Williams at least his own gravity because you can't really leave him because if he gets a head start at the basket he's just going to go and finish so you know it's not as tough as a to a big with no three point shooting he's he's he's fighting for rebounds he's obviously a good shooter I've also liked to sit I've liked what I've seen from him in transition so far he's he's willing to push the ball he looks like he knows range lineup at can be times but it's still not optimal for favors and then backup center looks like Julekha for is well well ahead cirque favors hasn't been healthy I mean I do think this is not necessarily like a pick and roll team if he's Got Zion next to now Zion does he's doing he's he's had a few nights assists already so he he seems very versatile well rounded player and he'll she liked to your point he seems like a great fit in the front court was I on Yeah viansa apply to all of this but it looks like they're probably GonNa go with like a four traditional big rotation is that your Prussian as well yeah yeah said Molly meant meant okafor looks like he has the size to guard the threes very good rebounder may I think he's a little slow there is a little more towards like a thinner jared Dudley type than you're playing a small ball lineups that might be playing rebounding is going to be at a premium and so it's nice to have a guy like okay for you can go to if you're trying to get a trying to get some boards you think we'll see just in that neither talk you might miss a preseason game ended up playing I'm not sure whether he really pushed himself to play in fear of seeing the writing on the wall that he could follow the religion Orlands we were all surprised when New Orleans took three rookies and actually cab kept all the picks obviously they grab deedee and Jack around who's who's a stash defender but he's he's not the gigantic liability he wants was he's a rebounding machine particularly in the office of and that's you know especially if you're going to consider you said it I mean this team has historically been thin at the wing I mean you can the best threes that that this team has had since came New Orleans pages Jamal Mashburn is people's imagination but is there anything that you feel strongly about with this team that counter to what the the national narrative or reporting has been yeah if milk offers I mean the strategy taken ever since joining New Orleans been great and he was always the guy who had the terrible net rating and couldn't couldn't defend anyone and he's he's not a good about the head a top five top seven player in the NBA and they've got we more excitement now with a nineteen year old rookie than they ever had without the player but Diane captured so I think he's been able to you know I don't think he's ever going to be like some huge winning player on the Defensive Anthony is looked a little bit better again this preseason while they don't have much in the traditional three cents beyond Brandon Ingram I think they've got a more depth at the wing than they than you might think on first glance just because in the last year or so yet so it's actually something we talked about a little bit already and it was the the thing that came to mind for me I was how thin this team is that the wing and and I I in in Australia this year or Zealand but but yeah I mean I think Jackson Hazel was never the plan for him to really come and instantly be a big big difference maker he's nineteen years jobs and and each one more and the rest are new and so I I do think you're gonNA see a lot of different lineup combinations try figure out what works so having followed maybe not I mean like a billy hasn't looked atrocious but especially with Zayed at the point that he's at now as a rookie hard to say that that you're going to be able to protect the rim much and getters for the Pelicans this year drew and you could make the argument next next six guys are GonNa are all new players I mean there's there's Frank Jackson has okafor and cameras rolling Jonathan from a traditional small four perspective and the thing I always come back with that is how many of those big wings are there in the NBA. They're truly going to be you and even now you've got these guys like Josh Hart and Nicola Walker and some some of these guys who again young but also they have the good wingspan good size guards and so you're not talking about the old Pelicans that had some of these really small guys like Rondo who maybe had that defensive reputation but was not good at any stretch of that that's Sierra this there's even fewer of them because of the injuries that happened last year so so there there aren't a ton that I'm really that are going to scare me night in a night out and I think the Pelicans may be bailable be fun I hope we see it but those those line of probably aren't going to stop anybody so you know maybe they could go to some switching units there but and Dezelic obviously all these still kind of growing into his body and so I think that's it having Meli there is going to be pretty critical yeah and oak for to be like that's kind of the one of the cool parts about covering this team this year is at everyone's so new you have really of the six to eight top minutes actually working on something right now about this so he's been he's been deepened to the kind of how how the Pelicans are changing schematically this year and you know they were a little bit more conservative last year Ingram the Ford all this year yeah I do the five yeah yeah I signed the five you may even see Ingram Meli together I think they're going to try a lot of different stuff it's pretty good he looks as slim as he ever has you know they're talking on the broadcast the other day about how he's a head like this really bad sleep apnea now he's actually sleeping better he has a lot of experience with that Ian Houston but it doesn't from what I've seen I haven't seen them do any switching the preseason view not not not much better off than when might expect in that regard yeah and we'll see whether ingram really is necessary to guard those someone his size to be able to guard it on the wing it in some of these past pelicans teams you know those players don't grow on trees you've got kind of deal with some of their offense of flaws the seema for awhile now now of course they're in the national spotlight was signed in the ad traded as well as maybe more than they were really at any time during the year which is crazy back there aren't many and so I think the fact that the one half season a quincy pond dexter yeah exactly and so I do think that there's a certainly offensively I think there are guys who can be better fits than him but it defensively again I mean they would've killed for Brandon Ingram to be uh of average mobility for a Senator Zion is really quick as well you got sharks Lonzo and jrue holiday also so yeah you can put pressure on that but I do think US schematically they're they're trying to general to be a little bit more aggressive and I've got my podcast co host for in the know she meant he's and it's tough to move up to the four Kazan really kind of he's really Kinda got to be a four I don't think he's ready to defend at the five at in it's one of those things I think is going to feel out his personnel and apply make changes throughout the season and the whole staff yeah and that's something that does make sense for this favors are you doing matt pretty good thanks for having me on yeah absolutely so you know a lot of these we start off talking about last year at Hollywood I don't know forget it house I get into a rotation that everyone has to be perfect maybe that's not realistic with a group that's this young so ultimately I think to me the biggest key there dropped coverage strategy and they WANNA THEY WANNA be make that defense more aggressive they want to be able to use that length athletism enforce force opponents make multiple decisions they've got they've got these guards who they can place in three yard line and I think get by two more of an extent than Mitt they may have been able to do historically even though that and I don't I don't see how that happens personally because I think he is quick enough trigger and he's not he's selfish enough to play more than like twenty minutes a game to every is an and really put pressure on the point of attack and against green so you're going to see some changes defensively for for sure but I'm you know and will fuel a what's a project to be devastating transition game where maybe that's how you can get this defense to be really good when maybe just lining up okay we're going to potential Why this is such an intriguing team obviously mom I think Jackson has looked pretty good in summer league and this year also he has a discrete skillset he can bring at least according to David Griffin and something that I'm a little lower on now than I was at the start of the preseason I thought these guys would actually be really good defensively Zion's been a little bit below where I was hoping they they kind of just the overall of not looked incredibly south but the outscoring teams looking pretty good at times but what do you think this team's defense projects to be the cease yeah ah now in a huge tier of through six or fourteen I had them as the number seven overall defense and I mean there's there's a lot of guys on this team right drew Lonzo Derrick favors I mean those are like three pretty solid defensive players in your starting lineup ingram has been pretty average and I think Zion is really going to struggle years ago they had some moments once cousins went down defensively but it doesn't seem like a huge focus now I mean at least he has guys overcome the rockets and but Alvin gentry has never really been a guy who's helmed a a great defense at times like the the second round L. especially getting through screens and with help responsibilities and then if they do go with more Zion at center type answers I think they should I mean they really got like this season for all it would be nice to win run run run and it's the higher pace you play at the harder it can be to really sustain a strong defenses terms of you know point slapper project Russians efficiency perspective so I think they've got the talent and they've got the athleticism for sure the question is can they get some of the young guys who can come in and if someone isn't executing defensively he's got the ability to replace some which you don't have for young players on some teams but it yeah onto possession so I don't want pigeonhole there but something around there yeah I mean I had hoped I mean when I went through and just kinda ranked teams before preseason I had the AH just a a little worried that he's not quite there yet a. defensively a and it could be a weak link for them as of now if you had to handicap up to even league average quickly can of players learn to communicate trust each other play together when you have such high turnover for year and then how much does pace in offense the way I was really kind of hoping that they would be maybe that's just the I should pay more attention to the personnel but they are pretty young and they're gonNA running gone I think Zion would be nice and honestly if they're going to even think about making the playoffs this year they've probably got to get somewhere around around the top ten mark but I think more likely they can they can get somewhere even get a little bit better than league average and and you know as well as I do that when when you're talking about defensive rating the twentieth in the ten team are probably separated by what like a point or two per possession it's really about Zion Williamson's development number one because he's just this generational talent but I think when favors is off the floor I would expect them to probably really struggled OKAFOR's in a game the first quarter of the preseason they had thirty two possessions in that quarter playing at a crazy high pace so far but yeah I don't know if I can quite jump onto these guys top ten d the from him in his La days but I'm not feeling quite as maybe I'm just a being seduced by the incredibly high pace they've been playing at like that that actor ability to defend at at a high level and get stops consistently when you're trying to run that much yeah and now dern Herman is gone they moved on from him jeff is delic- comes over see them get finding their way into the top tange because the personnel they have and and like I said already once before it's it's going to be a process of this team given the youth and given the turnover you think the rank of defense what do you think it will be I think I think if this was a team that was going to play lear league average pace I think I could I could I worked where they start the years where they finished so of for over a season long it's I think I think a league average defense or something slightly above average would be I'm GonNa get time you know he he's not going to be a huge plus there so maybe when they go to certain lineups they could defend at that level but I think you could kind of fall apart from what holidays off the floor or or when favors it is off the floor then I could see them being you know kind of below twentieth ranked type level with those unit so yeah maybe I I'm still a show on them in the after the preseason I do think Ingraham looks a little bit better in particular help defender he's actually made some plays at the basket with Jones E. Much I would have him you know Kinda in the in that twelve seventeen type arrange again with the caveat that a slight increase or decrease in terms of your effectiveness can really bump you up is there depth I mean you've got a bunch of the Pelicans now have a problem of there's a rotation player or two that would maybe get minutes most teams that won't get minutes New Orleans and it's usually been the fifth best players were you know maybe ninth or tenth best players in other teams now you've got the opposite issue where not as much star Talent obviously you've got Zion's generational talent Just overall defensive talent guys that you think should be plus defenders in in theory and then one thing I think just bears mentioning given the Pelicans teams of the past is for down in the League there a big strengths that us even this group we talked about transition Obviously athleticism is is pretty good turnovers when you play in transition balls a big turnover guys I in his rookie I think he's GonNa he's so explosive and he's able to do these super human thing but he tries US minimize a little bit whether or not this mix playoffs but but yeah so I I'd say though the depth is really something that's new and Nice for New Orleans fans that really haven't been used too much in the the overall free-throw percentage probably going to be very good when you throw an Ingram and Zion or their two biggest free through guys lonzo struggled from the line historically as grew drew doesn't get there that much or to you know with some second rounders or that they have so many draft picks going forward as well or you know moving a Josh heart or something like that to a team that might be interested in him written for these guys but anything we haven't talked about yet that sticks out to us the strength now I mean I think we hit on a lot of things I had written down are you know it was the urethra athleticism point was one rookie and Andrew but then you've got a bunch of guys who can can really get get we'll get and deserve minutes and then you've got a couple of like we talked about Josh Heart problems as well so there are favors another one too where if if they fall out of it he's an expiring contract he could really help you know say t- Mike is it you know they had the this the star cast whether you want to talk about demarcus cousins or drew or ag and then the the the the gigantic fallout from there I mean you who's the fourth have like a weakness that they really need to shore up it looks like this team John Hollander I think added with forty four wins and and making the playoffs that they could maybe shore up a weakest right now that if they have a whole and they wanted to bring someone in I mean in theory they could even train for star they probably put together like one of the best offers for Bradley fitted through a lot of small spaces he makes them advanced passes those can get picked off as well just generally a young team that's gonNA play faster probably gonNA turn the ball over it's for some other teams in maybe he's not he's a guy who's the man out here so I think they're depth as a typically pretty strong regular season plus in them when you get to the playoffs started has as teams start to scout the Pelicans roster and figure out the best way to defend them can they create space can they create shots can create efficient offense in half court setting and I think that's a they really wanted to go that route would actually be an amazing fit here but I I don't foresee that happening just through the packed appeal could could maybe leave but they if they had you gotta have him sprint off those screens run those two men actions I mean they should be running a there's a lot of stuff for him that I think they should be running that I haven't seen much of in the preseason enough just because and and again I think the Pelicans are going to double down on pace and space being much hostess double down on pace and then hope that the spacing is free throw shooters yeah that's a slight concern anything else stick out to you though we have talked by up and I don't know if we've talked about the lack of shooting maybe guys who are both willing to shoot and our our players who teams are going to say Shit and go out and make sure they defend so Wolf as the season goes on and again a pretty big DVD yeah and I'm also worried about radic just becoming common afterthought with these guys I mean he he is just such an underrated offensive player but you got to actually use it Kapika create two on the ball and let you operate when he's flying off those screens so I hope that they are going to use more needs not getting just get lost in the shuffle they've been long been a a talking point that he should get Thaad more or get more calls that he gets fought a lot and doesn't get calls but so the two biggest retour guys are probably GonNa be like I mean I I think I think there's a pretty solid belief that he's going to be a twenty five minute night type guy who plays a lot with what was they really try to focus on ball an ingram at least for their their fortunes this year yeah and I haven't heard one person around some of these guys especially Zion and the Lakers folks but but I I think if I had you know pinpoint one number may be something like same thing with the the handoffs to him at the Arca in Transitional Zion could do a lot of that same way as they did with Ben Simmons but it doesn't seem it may be again that's just way of a a quality depth yeah you mentioned that there's seems like a number ways this season could go as on they have just such a serpent of assets they're just not gonNA focus on him enough and I think that even the way he plays he is so much gravity sprinting off those screens that sometimes he is the only shooter that you need very interesting to see the direction goes yep yep that's that's out let's see here weaknesses I think they're going to have a lot news are less of a concern if we just double on base but but yeah I mean the shooting is still a problem I mean it's it's a situation where if you don't have jd wreck on the floor they've got no you should be getting a lot of minutes with Zion I'd love to see him doing those same kind of handoff plays that he did with Joel embiid in Philly I'd love to see him doing the pick and pop that he forty wins yeah I'll go with forty also I took the over on their thirty eight and a half but I see it a very big range with this group haven't seen a lot of JJ redick and so it's hard piece it all together but I I would still be shocked if he's not used the way that in to really help this team or you can see it going the other way it's Utah and more has been a valuable player radic maybe if it looks like they still have a long way to go maybe they could move him to a contender he could really help a team yeah spread the floor and and create some some mismatches offense yeah I certainly acknowledge those concerns could be overblown a a little bit I not I offensively in the preseason if even if he's up in below them defensively so yeah I think this could be potentially an above average office especially if they're just running the ball down your throat like the you could make a case I mean again this is I'm not predicting this but I could see them being a top ten team on both ends possibly if everything breaks I realize there's the Austin I think he'd look really good in Boston uniform to center favors probably top twenty center in the NBA and he doesn't have a ton of weaknesses so I must did that was I've seen him get underutilized before because he's just he doesn't have that type of personality to demand the ball there's you have to really like find a way to get it to him there's not that many listen I expect them to do a pretty darn good job of that so I I agree with you I think this team is a lot of upside like I could see them getting fifty winds very easily they could like nervous because I really want these guys to succeed like they could just be so entertaining I I hope that they can take a step forward this year art let's let's do some prediction couldn't get myself to fifty but but yeah I mean like if everything goes right Zion's clear rookie of the year Giradi makes the all star team Ingram and spacing standpoint but like I could see this group with fifty wins not easily but certainly possible this is fun because last time we did this weather I can't remember it was two or three years ago I was I was white a little maybe a game or two below five hundred is my I guess median outcome I that I think there's a super wide standard deviation on that just because of the questions ah spacing be damned is probably gonNA help your offense a lot right like so I if he's really just going to be this good right away I think he's exceeded my expectation round out for for one of the top four seeds in so I could I could see something like that what about worst case scenario I think I've got him and so we group looks further away than that again I don't I mean he's in the third year of that deal you know I was kind of saying they should be exploiting the trade market forum What do with Ben Simmons but do that was nine resets the screen at the free throw line Philly ran that a lot leading games and then sprints up to three point line like that would be absolutely incredible him screening for Zion so you mentioned the defense on the lower lower on the while I'll tell you what I'm a little higher on the offense now after if signed Williamson is GONNA shoot seventy percent on fifteen shots a game I'd say around thirty wins might be their floor or maybe a tick lower than that yeah and maybe Ruddick and favors aren't on the team anymore I mean I don't think this will happen the Pelicans either don't use them optimally or he just really hits the aging curve more than we expected so there are there are pathways to this team not being as good as we expected and I think Oughta not be able to keep up the efficiency with the increased workload on offense for him the the Lakers guys are who we thought they were in Los Angeles Your points about ready is I I I find it hard to predict him not being rookie there at this point which is crazy to say already but just after four preseason games but there's I mean you could have for a this Pelicans season I will let you go first in terms of number of wins sheriff so I've got them around five hundred I think maybe given how good Zion looks right now that makes more sense that they didn't they obviously have so many assets from the AD trade As well I think you gotta give this a weird group I take injuries off tail for this or just say assume assume league after normal injury issues and I'd say I'd say thirty wins now you've got Ziad as you can just give it to him and have him attack but I think they should do that on and start grooming him for that role but I mean if he's just that good and they got a lot of pre decent offense the starters included in that so at the that you're concerned certainly fair and because we've been trying to figure out you know what this team's going to look like and do with the shooting I think they could bog down in the half court they might struggle to score at the end of games especially if they're not going to sign at the end of the Games which I think the goal is a big Lonzo are both you know they figure out what was whatever they got out of the Lakers are get out of Los Angeles and figure things out I mean there's there's a path and this team being a very tough I the team and and you know so much depends on ball and ingram as well those are two below average offensive players so there they need to take a big step forward especially from yeah that's interesting I think probably rettig for ball would be my thought there again to get the shooting on the floor can't go to him but you know he's his wall Henley's enough I think you should anyway but yeah I they're not gonna do that Duke didn't do that yeah that's part of why my concern here to just that backward you take out ingram but he's got a lot of equity built up maybe you'd go with those three Guards Ingram and Zion and leave favors I mean you've Obviously Got Zion Mainstay you've got your holiday mainstay I think radic has to be in their closing out I think you've got to have that lethal shooter in and so from there the question is imagine we're GonNa see a lot of offense defense substitutions don't it's again doesn't strike me that Derrick favors is going to have the offense of impact that he had in Utah but they're going to need fire on the team than you are and I even we use your best case scenario for this team and I didn't even have fifty wins on their head mid to high forties I don't try and try and figure out what you have in these guys at Andrew provides important levels duly apple does but maybe there's an outside possibly that if it really goes poorly he can just say hey and so yet at things would have to go immensely wrong I think for that to be on the table but I think all the other points regarding you know they could trade rhetoric that gets rid favors I think that on the New Orleans that's concerned about that I think it's I think we pretty much everyone's accepted the fact that he's not going to start but I think I don't think anyone who thinks anything other than the six man Yeah I mean it may be they would consider going with molly instead of favors at times we'll see how good that unit looks thing so we talked about starters I think it's going to be super interesting with his team who finishes and so I I think it I think it'll be very magic dependent to start but an extreme example but they've they've really made him the face of the franchise everything was I am be damned the jrue holiday is is the guy in New Orleans Nike and he's he's a great ambassador for the team you that already Gra fevers has how does that compare to the equity that Brennan Ingram Lonzo Ball have it as prospects and guys who might be a part of the future yes while you going I think I'd rather be on a contender at age twenty eight or whatever he has right now after they've they've the only thing on that and I think I think you know the two and from a radical in and the other four starters that would be what I would be going with but I find it extremely difficult to predict because of the equity tastings there's no way there's no way that he gets excited oh before the for the deadline yeah I don't think anyway I the way they've talked but maybe if they really disappoint maybe drew holiday soon I'd rather be somewhere else you know to where I have a chance to win now in the is on at the five or it's it's it's favors it's it's ingram in its launch it was two of those three guys and so who's the man out and I think those are those interesting questions Darabi cert- certainly beyond the table of things south anything else that's really stuck out to you in preseason or that you want to say about these guys didn't have a chance to talk about for go I'd say it was is a Lotta optionality they're I think they're going to really have to decide on a but to me if I were running things I would be alternating probably between ball and I I so I am curious to get your thoughts on that and we can talk about how it's probably a little matchup dependent but is there a clear finishing five that you will go for this team defensively you would think I think a lot depends on the mets maybe you have Lonzo ball plan the three I guess probably more accurately drew holiday it'd be playing the three defensively in ball and thrown into the deep end either sink or swim he's going to have plenty of opportunities when we'll see whether he's able to do anything with it or not and Woah confounding we appreciate it thank you so before we bring on Ethan Strauss of the athletic it's a great time to tell you about how awesome the athletic is an even both sides are in both sides best interest to let this thing play out yeah we'll we'll see whether it is or not we'll see what kind of year he has it looks like he's going to be given a enough so it's we've been doing it for about a year now took over for the guys macnamara Schwan who did the podcast for literally years and so we the without a lot of fun with it and looking forward to keep going writers waste time looking for clicks just to feed the ad machine they can just write much better content they can spend time talking admire in China how they can deal with the PR issues that have arisen really good stuff absolutely must read I could not do my job without death whether that in fact inures to his benefit or to the teams benefit or neither but yeah that'd be really interesting I mean we could look back at this alert paper about Oh so and so has a calf point he's going to miss three days it's actual real value added stuff and because they don't make their so still with with Bourbon Street shots and I myself in an Schmidt our co host of in the know which is a our bursary shots podcast and on the blue iron the hope is that it won't say that's that's really interesting art will work we keep up with yourself a this season you are you've your podcast as you mentioned Yeah Eric I could not do my job frankly the all these without help from death lettuce writers they are just that good every market now in the NBA great national writers as well stick outposts in all of your NBA markets at this point your subscriber you get access to all the national local NBA coverage their podcasts are really good even exactly what Brandon Ingram he's GonNa be restricted next summer and so they've got to see what they've gotten some of these guys and so if you're maybe you're finishing five in certain situations isn't optimal bets going proved that he can make quick decisions these kind of average defensively and he's not a huge part of their long-term plans or e could prove himself as indispensable to at the talk about this piece in just a second here wrote an awesome discussion on how Steve Kerr and the rest of the NBA should be dealing with this sources watching the game doing video breakdowns ethnic slater who were going to have on tomorrow is another great athletic writer and they really just have phantasm people are actually really thrown off when you like legitimately answered that question yet nobody wants negative nobody wants anything negative that's this okay you know he he really was terrible fit was signed in Lonzo those guys look good he doesn't they're not really that interested in retaining emmy doesn't prove that he can shoot the ball he doesn't received any event whatever it doesn't seem like they have like a big package there for him and I'm worried he's just gonNa come in and just you know be something like Troy Daniels type off the bench cents last idea in the media scrum which he later clarified so I was like l. let's just stop texting about this and I just have you on the show and will figure out what we think of this throughout the year yeah when I don't get a chance to watch a pels game in the car I'll definitely be given that elicit catch up what's going on with this team because there's so many players and so many variables with this rip thanks a lot this is fun as good have you here to wrap our heads around the this team which is going to be incredibly exciting soon bringing Ethan Strauss now either we were texting about this last night and try sending so opinions back and forth on what we thought of Lebron James Comey well if you don't know what the athletic is it's a subscription based model of smarter sports coverage for diehard fans they're not gonNA waste your time with some news earlier like yet with or exchange our views so Heideman I'm doing well how are you doing man pretty good and I do a good job of pretending like we weren't talking the NBA that everyone says is you know it's not how you doing it's you good you good you good you good you get Raven Ridder Warriors Pr Man Legend always say you good makes them feel okay yeah he's enjoying Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah it just gets the whole thing out of the way it's a great reason to have children yeah well so I mean the the other thing and misinformed when I first saw that I saw it on twitter I was like Oh my God this guy sounds like he's just like parroting Chinese Communist talking points fencer going defense it's fascinating yep yeah absolutely and it really it really is it's interesting that in that regard to because this team's gotta figure it as well Eason's podcast is on the athletic as well now to subscribe to them go to the athletic dot com slash cap space easier over /capspace we talked with all the time here on the program he can get forty do not believe there's any consideration for the consequences and ramifications of the tweet I'm not discussing the substance others talk about that my team in this league just went through a difficult Ortho thoughts I think there is a plausible scenario whereby uneducated he meant that Maury couldn't possibly have known the implications of what he was not even explaining why these things are complicated as curse which I guess we will get to it came off that way it came off like he was parodying China's talking points about Hong Kong I then looked at the context and I felt like okay he didn't really mean that he was talking about more he just wasn't would want you to think without any elaboration that is a frustration point for me it's this idea of odd few skating but then no follow up him for five minutes before I know I know it was also I had no curiosity about how you're actually doing that I really give you new information when you ask them I was doing it was perfunctory thinking about what the consequences of sweet would be and in fact he later clarified that the in his own tweet here here's what he said there let me clear up the confusion our in house somebody's doing but I like head as opposed to go ahead man are we just are we just dancing around this China issue eight not to accommodate your podcast we're just too good nate Dunkin donuts he says he says everything good everything good everything everything the cooler people to shorten it to you get you get you good oh to unleash but I also don't know if it matters what Lebron actually thought it was going on in his own head we don't have evidence that Michael Jordan ever said that Republicans buy sneakers to it's just what got branded within the culture and that's what we run with in this case we actually do have evidence that Lebron said con whether the substance of Maurice Tweet saying that Hong Kong people were fighting for freedom was a