2 Episode results for "Priscilla Joe"
Cold as Ice
"True. Crime brewery contains disturbing content related to real life crimes. Medical information is opinion based on facts of a crime and should not be interpreted as medical advice or treatment. Listener discretion is advised. Wall. Could fill a matter is oh, I'm calling because my daughter moved to Hopkinton about a week ago. I haven't heard from her and today up there today respectively. Nobody Allegra for them ago fund expecting supplicant, and no one there. We can't retire by fell phone, and it's really unusual heard to do this. Okay. What's her name rape hill? And with all her husband, Neil Fokker. Rachel. T W I S P L E. Okay. Husbands. Richard know, Neil. I'm sorry. Say much name. Okay. What type of eagles? Does. She have. You know that? Hey, have a white BMW by three. Okay. Register to either one of them. Okay. All right nine month old bathing. Okay. And I know that's kind of a. How many houses up this innocence? You just won't get a couple of weeks ago. Okay. They know she's having the navy's or anything yet. Or what? No. He hasn't mentioned the he'd let the neighbors yet. And if we may contact you just wanted to have have you daughter give you a call. Okay. Now, do Anna. Joanna fear. Maureen are still at the health over. You know, waiting in the Dragway the does the house garage on. Okay. And they were supposed to her sister was supposed to be over there for dinner tonight. No, no girlfriend, JoAnne. I'm sorry. I said it was a cyst. Okay. Today expecting? Haven't been able to reach her by cell or the health phone kinda Kwok this morning both in or nine laughter from her Fokker on Thursday. Okay. And everything was fine. Then ok does the the house garage windows in now. But no windows and God valley he's back at how we heard her backing will do will the dogs barking Wilson somebody out there and take a peak ground floor windows. We will see in any of the windows or anything. Drawn. Okay. And get around on the basis for the Fleischer. I could see in their Neil headed has an office down the that. Okay. No lights on his Joanna's abysmal light on in the hallway down there in can't be in any other. And it was confirmed for the dinner engagement tonight. Yeah. You told me. Okay. All right. The last time you spoke with everything seem, right? She didn't tell you that she was going away and expect anything like that. Okay. Girly calls me every she does ensure okay? Yep. Okay. We'll somebody. We'll check it. And then I'll give you a call back and let you know how we make out. Okay. Anti walk. Welcome to true kind berry. I'm Jill on dick. Just a quick note before we begin since I broke my foot. Joe's headed take on some of my usual tasks around the house mostly involved in working dogs. We live in a pretty safe area, but having saver safety products is giving both of us in added sense of security this holiday season, give the gift of safety with sabre the number one brand of pepper spray trusted by police and consumers worldwide saver makes maximum strength pepper spray and Jill as well. As other great devices to help is still safe, including personal alarms and window and door sensors to sabre dot com slash true crime brewery and use code true crime to get twenty percents off your order. That's SAB R E R E D dot com slash true crime brewery. Thanks, stick the bodies of twenty seven year old Rachel and nine month old Lillian. Entwistle? We're found on January twenty second two thousand six in the master bedroom of their Hopkinton Massachusetts home where the Entwistle's had been living for only ten days. Autopsy results would show that Rachel died of a gunshot wound to the head in baby. Lillian died of a gunshot wound to her stomach just hours after the deaths of his wife intas daughter, Neil Entwistle purchased a one way ticket to London and boarded a British Airways flight on January. Twenty third Hopkinton police located kneel at the home of his parents in Nottinghamshire England, he told her detective that he left his home at around nine AM three days earlier to run an errand, and that his wife and daughter were both alive, and well and in the couple's bed when he left when he returned at around eleven AM he claimed found both had been shot dead. He then covered the bodies of his wife and daughter with a blanket and left the house. He did not call for help. So Neil Entwistle's behavior after his family was killed. Brought a lot of suspicion upon him with detectives discovered in their subsequent investigation was completely unexpected for a young professional couple living an apparently charmed life. What went on behind closed doors and whistles computer was very disturbing. If being a shitty husband makes a man a murderer. Then Neil would be found guilty of these crimes. But was there legitimate evidence proving that Neal was responsible? Join us today for cold as ice the murders of Rachel and Lillian Entwistle. So I've been waiting for a while to Massachusetts case because I really wanted to give a reviewing king Julius which is one of the best New England as you'll ever drink in your life. Really really those are big claims. I know, but it's true. So king Julius is. Brewed by treehouse brewing company in Charlton, Massachusetts, beautiful beer. The review. No. So it's dark, orange colour. Great big foamy head lot of sticky lace, so visually. It's a nice little beer, great, aroma. Lot of tropical fruit and citrus than when you start drinking. It initially get the citrus fruit of front some orange. Maybe some tangerine than the tropical fruit plant apple in mango, wonderful, wonderful beer are really popular. So this would probably appeal to the masses this windows, and it's a New England PA, which means that it's more fruit forward than hop. So it's not one of those bitter pallet western beers, very subtle on the hunts in very very fruity. You like that kind of beer, this is yours. This is the best one. You said this is the best one. All right. Let's open it up. I'm excited to try it. Okay. So let's hobble and quieted. All right. Put your crutches up against the wall. And let's get started. Okay. Neil Entwistle grew up in Worksop, which is about one hundred fifty miles from London on the northern edge of the Sherwood forest. Yes, that sure would I from all the fairytales. I don't know a fairytale robinhood. They're other fairy tales that talk about the Sherwood forest though. No, okay. I thought that Hansel and gretel we're in the Sherwood forest as well. No, they're in the Black Forest or something. All right. My bad Hansel and gretel was written by the Grimm brothers, which German people. Yes. So they took place in Germany. Okay. Well, that makes sense. We only Sherwood forest. I knows Robin Hood and friar tuck little John. Oh, right. So we digress. Sade can proceed works up was once a booming town, then worked in a coal nines, and their wives had jobs in ribbon factories, but in the seventies nineteen seventies the minds, we're running out of coal in jobs went away and the women's were out of work because have been factories became what a mated, and then eventually moved to China not much work there. High unemployment rate, the blue collar jobs remaining were gonna play. Plant that made Campbell Soup and Bouillon cubes poverty that inevitably followed an employment brought problems with include teenage pregnancy, prostitution violence and drug abuse. Neil and his brother Russell reluctant because they grew up under the watchful eyes of their mother, Yvonne, and their father Clifford Clifford still worked in the coal mines. And he was a local labour politician, but Neil's grew up being ashamed of his upbringing, including his cockney working class. Accent quite reserved when he talked about his school days, but he actually had a lot to be proud of in a school. Where many of the students were illiterate news under student? His grades helped him get accepted to the university of York. We're here into degree in electric, engineering and business. This is a world way beyond what Neal's family could have imagined for them. They were strictly working class. He was the first to go to college and colleges where Neil met, Rachel. Her. Name was reach. Sousa? They got together in nineteen ninety nine on the university of your campus. Rachel was a pretty college exchange student studying English literature, despite the fact that she was only five feet tall. She had been attract start silver lake regional high school in the Boston suburb of Kingston, it seemed that Rachel was a success at everything that she said her mind to she was quite a go getter. She was on her high school's honor roll, and she also did some volunteering appear mediator. Rachel was an excellent rower. She was so good that she was invited onto the men's team of York university's boat club, Neil tall, and very shy was her teammate. And Rachel thought that he was cute. They romantic connection began as they rode together. They were facing each other the whole time and they quickly became a well-known couple on campus. Neal began to introduce Rachel as. As the woman, I'm going to spend my life with they were super close for over a year when Rachel had to return to the United States to finish her final year at the college of the Holy Cross in Worcester mass, but she was clearly in love with Neil and never showed any interest in other guys after she got back home. So in two thousand one she left her family to create a new life in England with Neil. They moved into a small rented cottage and Rachel began teaching English and drama in September of two thousand two at Saint Augustine's Catholic high school in the rural town of Redditch Neil worked for Connecticut, which was a technology company. It was a large laboratory that did military testing on warplanes and aircraft carriers. The company was controversial because of its alliance with the British government, which gave it access to several lucrative contracts. Rachel thought it was the bad press. The company got that made Neil act secretive. About what he did. It is job. He would joke about his job quite a bit saying that he was like double o seven like a secret agent in Rachel just thought that was charming pretty much anything. He did in the beginning was just charming. So Rachel Neil remarried in August two thousand three they had a beautiful ceremony of church in Manama, Massachusetts. And the reception was held at the Plymouth plantation, which was village Bill to reenact what it was like to live in early sixteen hundreds the hall had high ceilings and teach into Leers, quite an impressive place. Yeah. Very quaint. According to her family, which never been happier than she was on her wedding day after the wedding of couple honeymoon on a Mediterranean cruise. And they should their happiness at being married by making up their own website. Rachel, Neil dot org. So cute. Cute. Rituals happy, and she wanted people to know how will her life. It turned out. She was married to a handsome Englishman. She's going to live in England. Life was everything she could possibly have dream could be. So that makes this story. Even more set, doesn't it? It does. I think she was getting away from her delusion when she died. They hadn't been married that long. It happened pretty quickly. I know well, the photos on their website where evidence that she was succeeding in life interference. We're really thrilled about it. Even though Neil seem to bit standoffish to them. They were satisfied because he really seemed to make Rachel happy working as a high school teacher, Rachel earned the respect and the trust of her students she taught drama and English and she would chat and joke with them after class smiling, and they would tease her about her New England accent, Rachel was also friendly with the other teachers, but they never saw much of Neil who had this secretive job with the military company. But. Rachel definitely seemed to be in love, and she would just smile light up the room when she talked about her husband. He was everything to her. And she was also anxious to start a family so less than two years after their wedding. She had their baby girl Lillian Lillian rose Entwistle, and she was born in England in April of two thousand five a really cute little baby. Although they all are I guess, but her face looked like Rachel's, and she was just a happy baby. Her parents took hundreds of pictures of her shoes, a pretty photogenic kids. She was cute. So one of lily's first photos was taken by nurse at the hospital. And this was of Neil in Rachel with newborn Lillian sweater between them in a white blanket. And they posted that picture along with a bunch of other ones on there. Rachel and Neil website. Just a few months after Lillian. This porn new beginning complaining ritual that his working class. Upbringing was going to hold them back from real financial. Success newest convinced his cockney accent Markham as a failure. Maybe an England, but people in the US just love any kind of British. I don't know any better. So I think that might have been part of the idea of moving back. So Neil insecurity was beginning to hurt their marriage because for him the only solution was getting out of England. Rachel foot, though is probably a good idea. Anyway, now that they had a family. She wanted her daughter to be raised as an American surrounded by family and Massachusetts, just as she admit. So in September two thousand five Neil told his employer that he had to move to the US because demestic problems. So there's a red flag that he's kind of Aligarh right there. Yeah. 'cause it wasn't anything like that. Now and not a big deal. But just kind of a little tip off that maybe he's not the most honest guy in the world. Exactly. So they lift their lives in England moved in with Rachel's parents in their large home in Carver Massachusetts when. They arrive Neil confided. Rachel's mon- Priscilla that Rachel is more family oriented than he was. And he seemed to feel sorry for himself when life in the United States wasn't any better than life in England have been for him. Yes. So maybe the problem when a little bit deeper than just an accent possibly, although the stuff we read about him. He wasn't a real go getter. They don't think he actively sought jobs. I think he expected jobs to kind of materialize for him, and he could have his choice. Yeah. That's not a good idea. No got to beat the bushes and work on it. Yeah. I suppose Rachel in her mom Priscilla. We're a lot like girlfriends some would say more like girlfriends than mother and daughter, they learned to depend on each other. After Rachel's father Paul had died when Rachel was only nine years old. So grief had pulled Rachel her brother Jerome and their mom into this very tight little family unit being home, especially with baby lily. Made. This mother daughter bond, even stronger Rachel was really happy that Priscilla had finally found a new life partner to she'd married. A divorced dad. Name Joseph medoro, Zo, her new stepfather looked tough. But he had a very gentle personality in he was especially common carrying with baby lily. They really had some nice pictures of him holding the baby. So both of these grandparents adored this little girl as most grandparents question, that's the fun part. Right. So Joe was a guy's guy news anything, but however, tried his best to relate with Joe. He went target shooting. Joe ones. Joe is a real firearms enthusiast who had collected several antique guns Neal's choice of weapons was a twenty two caliber, which is pretty much small handgun after day. Fire. Paper targets Neil watched. Joe return the guns to lock box in his master bedroom. And put the keys on the kitchen countertop. Joe didn't notice of newest followers. He went about to routinely putting ways Gunson stashing keys if he had he probably would have thought nothing of it. Sure. Little foreshadowing here. Yeah. Now, the extended family spent Christmas of two thousand five together the town of Carver is just a beautiful place around the holidays decorated with white lights and the trees are all decorated. There were red ribbons wrapped around pine tree. Wreaths that hung on the front doors of most of the houses to so Neal was really impressed with Christmas in New England up until then the holidays for him had been spent in a town where many people celebrated Christmas just hanging out in the local bar. The big event was this annual holiday pub quiz. So not a big family Christmas normally far from it. Of course, they're just getting by his family was so in one family picture Neil held baby lily up to the top branches of the family's Christmas tree to place. Her first ornament in another Neil lay on the floor with Lillian on his chest. And she had this big smile. Looking at her mom as Rachel snapped a picture in raise Chila posted that picture on their website with the caption. I love my daddy. This is something that people would look back on just with enormous sadness in confusion about what happened. So as far as Priscilla Joseph were concerned, Rachel inter family could stay with them in the cover house forever. Priscilla really loved having her daughter granddaughter there. But Neil understandably I'd say wanted to move his family into their own home. It was kind of stifling to live with his wife's parents. He said, especially when he was having a hard time finding a job. So he was around the house a lot. He had gone to several interviews. But none of the computer companies it showed any interest in hiring him. But he acted as if money wasn't an issue at all he told his in laws that he was earning ten thousand dollars a month from the English military to advise them on secretive, computer programs. So even if you didn't get another job that was definitely enough money for him to provide for Rachel and Lillian. Sure. So the parents weren't worried not at that point, even if they went out for dinner as a family, the whole group of them Neil would always pull out a credit card and give it to the weight person before anyone else could pay. He wouldn't let anyone else pay. So I think he wanted to look like the big spender, of course, the at whistles were living on credit though. So really he did not have the money. Rachel would explain their lack of cash by saying that Neal's money was tied up in offshore accounts. Those complications would make the purchase of a home in possible for them. Mm-hmm. But then they started looking at expensive rental houses in the communities surrounding Carver. And this is when Priscilla became a little worried about Neil story. She had her guard set up slightly, especially after he gave her a business card supposedly for his own high-tech startup company. And this card was just a folded piece of paper held together with cellophane tape, and it read E N T embedded new technologies. So this didn't look like a real business card at all. It looked like something he put enough the computer input tape on. Exactly. And it doesn't take much money to order business cards. No doesn't now. But still I guess Priscilla respected their privacy. That's the way that she had been raised. And the way she'd raised Rachel is that everybody's allowed their own privacy. Especially in financial matters. You know, these are New England values in a New England. You don't talk about money. Don't. And you talk about sex before money, but that's still pretty far down the list. Also true now, she had no reason to suspect Neil of anything and Neilan. Rachel's finances to her where none of her business. But if she did any research on Neil's business, she would have found out that the companies address was untrimmed street in Carver the location of Priscilla. Joe's home. Besides this though, his inlaws d-. Otherwise, had no worries about his dedication to his family Priscilla notice that Neil looked at ritual with complete admiration. Lily's christening Neil smile, probably took photos of Rachel holding lily. And after she was baptized who is surely after the christening that Neilan Rachel announce that they were going to move into a rented house in nearby Hopkinton Priscilla was secretly disappointed, but she did take comfort in knowing that the new house was close enough. So that it could still be part of their daily lives. Well, and Rachel inter mom did speak every day. Yeah. They were very close. As you said, they were the baby seemed even can make them closer and January fourteenth two thousand six Neil. Rachel and baby Lillian moved into a nice four bedroom. Colonial home at six cups path in Hopkinton. The house was listed for sale for five hundred forty nine thousand dollars in Neil. Manage to convince the owner into giving them a short term lease for twenty seven hundred dollars a month telling her that wants his offshore accounts were moved to the United States in twelve weeks. They would purchase the house that is a lot of money. Even if you're making over one hundred thousand a year twenty seven hundred is a hell of a mortgage, isn't it? Yeah. Well, the lion gave the owner was soon as my money comes in. You know? Put down a large chunk of cash if not all of it right by the house. Exactly. So he was a real bullshitter the whistles gave the landlord a certified check for fifty four hundred dollars and that paid for first and last month's rent along with another payment of twenty seven hundred dollars for January. For rachel. This was a dream house. In the perfect neighborhood. The twenty four hundred square foot home was on a quiet cul de sac. So when Lillian got older she could play on the front lawn without her parents worrying about traffic. The house was on a block of just eight brand. New high end homes and their neighbors were mostly families professional people with good incomes in the house was beautiful inside. It had brand new cabinets ceramic tile floors, and it had a little built in desk in the kitchen where Neil would work alongside his family is Rachel made dinner fed lily, the house also had high cathedral ceilings, a large fireplace, and it hit a nice back patio with a hot tub. So it's a hell of a starter home. Here's this is a starter home. I know. Oh, well, I mean, a lot of people do this and they go into debt, but you know, if you have a good job. It's doable. I know you're very frugal, and it would be your choice. But people do this eight if he'd had a decent job at probably could have been managed, but we know that he didn't. So you're no job really overextending everything here. And I think after they moved in it didn't take long for Rachel to kinda see what was going on here. And that they were in trouble financially came Christian down pretty quickly, but then kind of his own pyramid scheme. Neil head. Right. And once things started falling apart. They will go fast. Yeah. He wasn't very good at it. No. He wasn't now. So they didn't have furniture to fill the house. So Neil went to an upscale furniture store and spent more than three thousand dollars on a living room set. Then bought a crib and a bed for another three thousand dollars. These are, of course, all on credit. Yeah. Puck intesne one of those quaint. New England towns has about five thousand families living there the town's main street twinkling Christmas lights during its winter wonderland festival. And they were is. Cream socials and custom parades in the summer, a white gazebo in the town centre was decorated for each holiday serious crime is almost unheard of in a place like Hopkinton. Yeah. So this should have been Rachel's dream, come true. She went to college. She got a good job. She married. The perfect guy. She had a baby. So it should have all been coming together for her, but it was actually falling apart. So it's really sad to think about what she was going through. So let's take a short break here to talk about our sponsors. Okay. This episode is sponsored by ADT ADT can design and install smart home. Just for you backed by twenty four seven protection. And there are a vast number of things you can do with your own secure smart, home ADT has doorman service, which is ADT automation that can unlock doors for package deliveries friends or kids who forget their keys. They also have a cool service called turn down service. This is an ADD or. Mation that arms your security system. Lacks your doors and even turns down your lights and thermostat. They think of everything pretty much all they absolutely do. So now, you can listen to true crime podcast or watch oxygen or the ID channel feeling secure. That's it. So ADT even offers worry free getaway service, which lets you arm your system, lock up and sit lighting schedules before you go on vacation, and this is all controlled from the eighty t app where the sound of your voice and backed by eighty TS twenty four seven protection festival with ADT. You don't have to worry about installing and configuring your system. ADT will do it for you, the I wise hipster say if this sounds good to you just visit ADT dot com slash smart. To learn more about how ADT can design in stall, secure smart, home, just for you. Well, I haven't exciting announcement to make on behalf of pain Lindsey and oxygen in a one night special TV event op. Agen brings to life pain. Lindsay's hit true crime podcast up in vanished. In two thousand sixteen painted a deep dive into the disappearance of Tara Grinstead, a young teacher who went missing thirteen years ago. Pain has dedicated himself to terrorists case every day, slowly unlocking the secrets that are small town could not shake terra was last seen on October twenty first two thousand five in a Silla Georgia. She was heading home from barbecue and suddenly disappeared terrorists story remained a mystery for over a decade, then pain stepped in his search for the truth. Get the town to start talking in the up and vanish podcast became a national phenomenon reaching over two hundred forty million people. But the story doesn't end there because pain is still at work determined to find answers. Don't miss up and vanished. A one night special TV event based on the hip podcast. Sunday, November eighteenth at seven on oxygen the new network for crime. So back to the story usually the most serious crimes for the Hopkinton. Police department is drunk husband hitting his wife or a drunk driver hitting apart car kids, special pumpkins on porches on Halloween night or toilet. Papering? Trees was a big deal there in two thousand six the police departments chief manners four sergeants two. Detectives and fourteen patrol cops still they were professional group and each of them was highly trained. Yes, just because this was a small area these weren't Barney fives. These people didn't know what they were doing what we did. Plus remember, it's only twenty some miles from Boston. It's where we start them at Boston marathon, so twenty six miles, right? Yep. So it's close to the big city. It is. But it was also the perfect setting for raising a family, which is why Neil and Rachel were so excited that they were. Raising their little Lillian there. Rachel was busy decorating her new dream house emptying boxes on packing dishes. Organizing cabinets. She had slacked off on her updating her family's website. So the last post she made was days after Christmas two thousand five and it read the three of us are doing well. The baptism was wonderful. And lily looked perfect after the movers left on January sixteenth two thousand six there was tension in the end whistle home, Neil refuse to answer any of Rachel's questions about their finances, and they were having daily arguments. Rachel, of course was exhausted. Just that week. She told her mother that she'd tried to use one of Neal's credit cards, but the account had been frozen. So this was alarming. Things are starting to fall apart his carefully constructed story about the ten thousand dollars a month is receiving from the British government. It's clearly not true, right? Crews were getting credit cards. Refused. Yeah. The whole offshore account thing was complete fiction. Right. Well, money problems where the last thing Rachel needed after they just moved into this expensive, new home, and they have a baby she was also really worried about paying off the eighteen thousand remaining on her student loans. The holidays followed by the move just months after leaving England, and the responsibility of caring for a baby in working was really draining for her as you can imagine. So it was early that night when Rachel decided to go to bed Neil state downstairs using the laptop which he had bought on credit. So knowing what we know. Now, he probably listened until Rachel was in bed before he brought up an internet search engine and typed in a series of words that investigators would find later how to kill yourself suicide how to kill someone with a knife. Euthanasia the answers to his searches were very gruesome one site described ways to murder. And cautioned that stabbing someone to death can take longer than you might think. So Rachel had any idea what he was looking up. She probably would have gotten out of there. I would think the other thing that he did after he did his searches who's starting to look for sex online. He started the search at adult friend finder where he wrote I am in a current relationship. But looking for bit more fun in the bedroom and very, discreet relationship. Just for fun. He even posted a full length picture of leaning back in a lawn chair this photos, probably taken in the backyard of his in-laws home and in it. He's holding his genitals in his head and his penis erect. So he's ready ready to go. He's on the market, which he shouldn't be exchanged a few provocative emails with one woman online apparently didn't lead anything, and then he went to bed. Well, it could lead to something like online. Ex it didn't lead to anything in person. No, he stayed at home. So the next day Rachel continued to on pack Lilley was irritable and crying that day and Rachel is looking forward to Saturday night when her friend from college Joanna Gately in her sister, Maureen we're coming to dinner now Joanna and Rachel had graduated from Holy Cross together in two thousand one in Rachel wanted things at the house to be in place before her visit. But the house was still a mess. Rachel was too tired to deal with it that night and went to bed early again that night is Rachel slept. Neal went on his laptop again, and repeated the creepy internet. Search typing in words, like murder suicide by knife and killing someone that search went on for more than an hour. Then he began searching for escort services in Boston and Worcester what came up I was the aero skied in Boston which gave him a list of women for every man's preference. Blonde. Brunette redhead along with categories for various fetishes, the one that Neil clicked on was blonde beauties escort service and that site came with a Yahoo map of its location in Worcester. Which was about twenty five thirty miles from Hopkinton. He could be there in about half an hour. He then contacted some of the escort services that he had searched the night before any actually printed out cements. We know all of this about his internet activities from the examination of his computer hard drive. It's unclear however what Neil did for the rest of that night of January seventeenth. He may have gone out or he may have just gone to bed Rachel slept through the night. And so did baby Lillian then the next morning. Rachel cautiously as Neil about any leads. He had on getting a job, even though Neal who told her that their finances were fine. Rachel knew something was wrong. And it was acting very strange. Usually he told her about an interview hits goes for the next afternoon and an electric design company. He said he was sure they would find a job and also the money the British government had been depositing offshore accounts would be freed up soon. So he's continuing with that charade. Even though I would think at this point Rachel knows. It's not real. She knows something bad is wrong. As sure yeah. Well in reality. We know now that Neal was really beginning to panic. His credit cards were being cut off one by one Rachel probably had no idea how much trouble they were really in the fact that they were broke was his secret. But he wasn't going to be able to hide this from her forever. Neal had begun to invest in get rich schemes that advertised on the internet. He bought into one scam called huge millionaire moneymaker, but hadn't made any money with that his schemes actually it started back in two thousand two when he and Rachel were still living in the United Kingdom, he targeted people like himself looking to make easy money with very little work in one of his promises told people to send him just two thousand English pounds and that would by the startup kit that assisted subscribers in creating an online pornography business with websites that could earn two million pounds a year. He called this scam million maker. Any spammed it out to people with the subject line make serious money? Make serious money make serious money. Now, we've all gotten these kind of spam. Emails in most of us, delete them immediately. We're throwing even open, right, exactly. By two thousand four Neil hood, an epiphany and he moved onto hardcore porno sites on his own when was deep hot sex dot com. Another was big penis, manual dot com. These sites registered under the name, Mark Smith. But a search of the URL came back to Neil Entwistle, the first website offered paid access to online videos of quote, barely legal and of quote, teen girls performing sex x he also ran a scheme selling pirated copies of spam. And computer software programs, but by two thousand six all these scams are falling apart. His sales on EBay were scams. He ended up with very poor rating. And then in early two thousand six complaints about as products were started to show up. Some of the software is being sold under the name, Neil Entwistle, some under the name Rachel, and we have no evidence that Rachel was involved in any of this now, but she probably did find out about some of it. So even if there was this suspicion in Rachel's mind about her husband, she made been willing to ignore it to maintain her image of the life. She wanted it was important to her over the holidays in January Neal's Email account began to fill up with angry customers to Manding there cashback. And January twenty first Rachel's friend Joanna and her sister Maureen where two hours late for their plan dinner at Rachel's house, all of the lights were on inside. And they could see the expensive new furniture in the living room. The table was set as if people were coming to dinner there were dishes on the table. So it looked like the whistles were expecting them. Joanna began knocking loudly, and then she called Rachel cell phone, and she heard Rachel cell phone ring inside the house now, no one goes anywhere without their cell phone in Rachel head apparently left hers at home Joanna didn't think so she thought that Rachel head to be there. And she became really concerned she got to be yes. Although you could also say that were home and they're pissed off because these folks two hours late, and they just weren't commander the door. Right. That's not likely. No. But after about thirty minutes of standing at the door, Joanna became more and more anxious. She did know that something was wrong because Rachel kept in touch and was not the kind of person to just not talk to her. She became more concerned when she saw the note that Rachel's mom had left in the mailbox where are you at said, call me mom, so Joanna called Rachel's mother in found Priscilla. Pretty much in a frantic state. She'd been trying to reach Rachel for two days, and they spoke every day. So this was very unusual. And she knew that Rachel had been looking forward to that dinner on Saturday night all week. So she wouldn't just not be there. So both of the women Joanna and Priscilla. Agreed. It was totally out of character for Rachel nut to return phone calls or to back out of plans without telling anyone Rachel cell phones. Still being on the kitchen counter made them even more worried and honesty, so about eight thirty pm Joanna just gave up waiting and drove to the content police station. Now, she knew that it was going to sound kind of crazy to be reporting an entire family missing just because of broken dinner plans in the report probably would have been ignored at a busier police station, especially if they'd been in downtown Boston, but it was a slow night in conten-. Also, carbon monoxide deaths are really not uncommon there in the colder months. The guests could have seeped into the young couples new in unfamiliar home. Remember, they only been there a little over a week just five months earlier seven people in nearby Duxbury were overcome by carbon monoxide nearly died before they were rushed to the hospital in that case they all survived. But the incident was on the minds of police officers in every town nearby. So the police dispatcher such insurance Charles Wallace transmitted, a call to patrol car officers, Michael Sutton, Aaron Neil. And he asked them to report to six cubs path to do a well being check. Joanna had not been the only one to ask probably the time. She turned up at the police station. Priscilla hit already called and spoken. Sergeant Wallace about her concerns for her daughter so Joanna and her sister met the patrolman in the Wissel driveway. Both cops walk the perimeter of the house found all the windows and doors. Locked their relates on the TV was in the living room when they could hear a dog barking. So it looked as if the home was occupied. We end the TV was actually running it was on. So sergeant set and pulled eliminated blockbuster video store card out of his wallet. And Jimmy that back and forth in the bottom. Lock the front door and after few minutes. He heard a snap and push the door open. So the office is walked into a foyer than into the kitchen and dining room in a room of the kitchen. They found the end whistles Basset hound in a crate. So officer Neal. Search the basement is said went to the second floor. He heard classical music coming from a radio millions room, but the crib was empty. There was no sign of a break in Sutton, noted that the table was laid out as if the family was getting ready for dinner, and they were duty dishes in the sink up stairs bathtub was still filled with water both cups. Climb. The stairs in notice that the bed. Clothes in the master bedroom were in disarray is if the bed had been slept in and was unmade, but they only looked in from the doorway the Entwistle's only had one car, and there was no vehicle in the garage Sutton. Ran the plate number through his cruisers registry of motor vehicle system to make sure that no one had run a be on the lookout or found the car abandoned. There was no report of a crash involving vehicle and it had not been found abandon. So this all seems like good news. It seemed like the whistle had just left for the night in that. Told their friends that dinner was cancelled so Sutton made. Sure, everything was secure inside any walked out to let Joanna no that they hadn't found anything. Joanna this time was on her cell phone talking to Rachel's mom Priscilla, and she handed the phone to the officer. So he could tell Rachel's mother what he had found. He did allow Joanna to go and take the dog for a walk before he relaxed the house, and then they put the dog back in her crate, he checked again to see that everything was locked up and pulled the door shut for the last time that night, but Joanna was not satisfied Joanna marine park their car in front of the Entwistle's house, and they just settled in. They were more worried than ever. And there was no way that they were leaving the house until they knew that Rachel and the baby were safe. The next morning was January twenty second and Juna walk back into the police station. She looked pale into shoveled. And Rachel's parents were wither. Joe moderate so had called his old neighbor infringe, oh flaring who had been an investigator with the state police in a Flaherty specialty had been homicide had retired just a couple years earlier. But his name commanded respect from his former law enforcement professionals so his friend Joe made the call the him after Priscilla told him that contend police instead they're not be a detective available to really investigate a missing persons case until Monday afternoon. It was Sunday. They've already been missing for couple days. Right. Yes. Yep. So Priscilla had last spoken to Rachel on Thursday night. Something was wrong and the family would not wait another twenty four hours for the Hopkinton police to help them. No. Because they knew that. This wasn't just a fluke. Flare matoco, the Helene and has to they could call in detective on his day off. So that an investigator could take the job from start to finish ordinarily a patrol officer would make the report and then wait for a detective to respond after flatter is call Hopkinton police began act with more of a sense of urgency became clear that the well-being chick. They had done the night before was not just a routine case of a broken dinner engagement. So detective Scott FINRA out and came in on his day off to work the case. It's good Flaherty. Must have some pull sounds like it, doesn't it Joanna gave the police the garage code. She a gun from the neighbor. She looked pretty nervous. She didn't want to mention it with Rachel's parents nearby. But when she going into the house to work the Doug and she'd been hit by a foul odor. That wasn't coming from the dog. The stench was overwhelming when that she'd never smelled before she didn't need to be a scientist to detect it the rancid. Ota was a sinus something very bad happened inside. The house. So how alarming would that be be so upsetting wouldn't it? 'cause you know, what's behind the odor. You have a pretty good idea that something happened to somebody, and you're missing your friend in her little baby. When police entered the house again, of course, they noticed the smell. It was completely overwhelming. And it was strongest outside of the master bedroom. Which remember the night before they only looked at from the doorway? So the bed appear to be in the same condition as it was in the day before during their first walk through. But this time they did notice a ladies wristwatch and a pair of glasses on the floor next to the bed. So now, they're just filled with this feeling of dread. Of course, it was sergeant Sutton that went up there. I and he pulled back the comforter knowing he was going to find something awful any saw women's foot- near the foot of the bed. And then he saw the face of a baby in this baby had been dead for some time. He assumed that it was the smiling nine month old who'd been reported missing Lillian and he'd seen. This little babies pictures all over the house, smiling happy healthy little girl. But he couldn't be sure it was her. Her because her face was battered in on recognizable. So somebody had hurt her killed her, of course. But her face as well as if they're some kind of a beating Rachel was dead. Also, and she was lying in the fetal position with Lillian clutch to her chest Lillian was lying on her back cradled next to her mother. But the manner of death was not immediately known only when the state medical examiner arrived to move the bodies in Lillian was pulled from Rachel did the police see that Lillian had been shot in her stomach and that bullet had passed through her and hit Rachel in her torso. But there was also a small hole in the center of Rachel's forehead just above her hairline. In addition to the baby's gunshot wound. Something had happened to her face as if she'd been hit punched in the face. There were bruises around her left eye her nose in her mouth along with blood and mucus crested on her nostrils lips. It's this is a horrific. Find. Isn't it? So the piece of shit who killed him. Yeah. Beater it. Hit a baby. Yeah. Unbelievable knew it was. So was not found in the house and this led to a search for him and the Entwistle's car early on Middlesex DA, Martha Coakley spoke to the public. Yesterday afternoon. Approximately six thirty or so on fairly routine wellbeing hip at six half in Hopkinton, the Hopkinton police wedge to check on Rachel whistle age. Twenty seven husband, Neil Entwistle. Also, h twenty-seven editor nine local daughter Lillian Entwistle when police did enter they discovered upstairs on a dead the bodies of Rachel Entwistle and her daughter at that time. There was no obvious signs of our play. I run a cly release believe they were deceased, but did not anytime violence or what the jet would be. We have been in the process of locating. He'll Wissel afforded believe is traveling funeral where he may be. He has some ideas where he meant. Took this forty five minutes for the state troopers to locate the vehicle in one of the parking lots Logan airport. It had been parked in the garage since ten forty nine pm on Saturday night, which is just hours after Joanna had showed up at the end whistle home airport. Security cameras had captured Neil pulling into the garage eight fourteen pm, but he left for some reason at nine thirty four investigators would later learn the driven several other Matic teller machines. We try to get cash advances from a number of different credit cards, then he had purchased a small amount of gas enough to get him back to the airport. He pulled back in ten forty nine. When state troopers found the vehicle doors were locked and keys renege mission. Kneeland was used a visa debit card to buy a one-way ticket to London for the two thirty eight PM flight the left Boston Sunday afternoon, but a seeded opened up on an earlier flight so at eight fifteen in the morning, Neil Entwistle had boarded a British Airways flight. London. There are a lot of ways you could say that people react to a tragedy. People can be kind of in shock and not show much emotion. People can be in a panic totally freaked out. But fleeing is definitely a sign of guilt. You don't just flee seen in not try and get help this new one. Right. So this looks really bad just took off. You didn't talk to anybody. Now. His parents knew arriving to got home. Well, more significant to me is no emergency services were called nothing. And even if he hadn't been at home, why is he leaving the country all of a sudden, it's all pointing in his direction as the guilty party right away. Of course, Priscilla Joe were devastated when they heard that Rachel and Lillian had been found dead in their home. This is like worst case scenario nightmare. The only thing keeping both of them going during the days after was the work that they were doing helping investigators signed the killer and try and find a motive for the crime Priscilla gave detective statements from Rachel's Bank accounts, and pointed to the eighteen thousand dollars in student loan debt, she handed over the fake business card. Neal had given to her just a few weeks before then she remembered that Neil had used her computer at her home on January sixteen the last time that he enriched had been there in she gave police permission to search it upon pilot, which those were like little computers there. Yeah. Before cellphones were around. Really we're around to the point where they were computers, and you went on the internet and all that you just made calls with them. So upon pilot was found at the six cups path house. And that was also entered into evidence along with two laptop computers and a bunch of data storage disks. They couldn't be positive that Neal was the murderer. Although, of course, this time pass Neal was looking more and more like the prime suspect. Even with the small chance that he was innocent leaving the country should seem like a very cold thing to do as well as odd. Yes. So January twenty third. Investigators contacted kneel at his parents, home and works up. He told police found the bodies of his wife and baby dead at around eleven o'clock in the morning on the twentieth. And he had no idea who would kill them. We talked to the trooper for about two hours. If you're interested in this. The entire conversation is available to listen to YouTube. So Neil says detective on the phone, sir. I woke up on Friday, fit lily and left the house a couple of hours later do scenarios. I went to Staples headed WalMart. Denver made it then came back to the house around eleven AM. He couldn't explain what he'd never made it to WalMart or how spent the two hours claim to be away from the home that morning, I left the garage door up. So I came in through the garage to the basement door. I went upstairs and check the baby's room. She wasn't in there. I didn't hear a crying, and I couldn't find Rachel. I went into my bedroom and saw Rachel she had a comforter over her pulled it back, and there was Rachel pill real pale. There was blood on the baby the baby had been shot. They were dead. Neil said visiby end to cry. I pull the covers back over them. And lift the room. Neil said he described to the trooper Howard run downstairs and grabbed a knife from the kitchen to kill himself. But he ended up putting it down because it would hurt too much. Yeah. How do you feel about that statement? It's really kind of sickening. Isn't it beyond seeking Neil told the trooper that he then driven the car to tell his in what had happened? He claimed that he didn't have Priscilla. Joe's phone number later. He said he go into their. To get a gun to shoot himself with. But no one was there, and it couldn't get into the house. So he's gonna go to priscilla's job that he couldn't remember how to get there. Then he drove to the airport and walked around a bit left. Drove back the Hopkinton but ended up buying gasoline pack to the airport. He said he wanted to go home to be with his parents doesn't make any sense. It makes absolutely no sense on January twenty fourth the Tuesday after the bodies were found Middlesex district attorney Martha Coakley is office sent out a press release about their findings. The office of the chief medical examiner has completed its autopsies on the bodies of twenty seven year old woman. Enter nine month old daughter who were found dead in their Hopkinton home Sunday evening, while initially investigators only detected one gunshot wound to Rachel Entwistle's. Torso. Autopsy revealed that the cause of death was a gunshot wound to the head. The EMMY found the cause of death of nine month old Lillian Entwistle. To be a single gunshot wound to the abdomen. So both deaths were ruled homicides. There was no mention of the bruises though that covered millions tiny face. Or of the fact that the bodies were missed the first time hap- content. Police had conducted their wellbeing. Search that's a bit of an embarrassment. It is at the time. They did it. There was not a huge suspicion. No, yes. It was a Chris research, but I can't fault the terribly. Well, and it was too late to help at that point. Anyway, here was hard as Coakley tried to keep it quiet by the time. Her office released that statement it had already been leaked that Neal was in England both the Boston Herald in the Boston Globe had dispatched reporters to his hometown to try and find him. Also producers from television news outlets were filling up the flights still ended. So big story. Of course, very big. So police identified Neal's a person of interest in the investigation before later that day. And they should an international arrest warrant after it was traced to London on February ninth two thousand six news arrested a tube train, Royal Oak station, following in-depth searches of his parents house. He initially requested that he not be sent back to the United States. But then did later agree to be extradited. The autopsy results were that Rachel had been shot in the forehead just above the hairline above her forehead lily and had died from gunshot wound to the abdomen that actually pass through her body and entered Rachel's torso, also Rachel died instantly from the shot to the head. But the bullet that moved through the baby's stomach would work more slowly so infant Lillian hit probably suffered quite a bit. The entry wounds were so small though that Neil's claim that he had seen his wife and baby had been shot when he lifted the covers off the bed seemed impossible because even sergeant Sutton who discovered the body. He's hadn't been sure how they died until the medical examiner actually lifting Lillian away from Rachel. Investigators got a warrant to take a sample of Neal's DNA from a water bottle that they found in the Cup holder of the car. They compared it to DNA found on the grip of a twenty two that Neil had taken from Joe medoro so gun collection. Of course, Joe's DNA was also found on the gun because he had actually used it not knowing what had happened the day after the murder the conclusion eventually provided the basis for the murder case against Neil. The DNA on the grip matched his own the statistical probability of the DNA match not being meals his one in five thousand two hundred ninety nine trillion. Investigators concluded that he'd shot Rachel at such close range that there was a blowback of blood and brain matter on the weapon it self as forensic. Scientists would discover when studying the DNA that was recovered from the gun Ray. DNA in the muzzle of her stepfather's twenty to prove that it was the weapon used because she had never touched this gun before. Although later on he would try and claim that she had killed herself. And just to save her honour. He had taken the gun back. Best. He could come up with him. And his parents actually made an announcement about that after the trial believing their son. Yeah. So much twenty eighth. Neal is indicted onto council murder illegal possession of a firearm and the illegal possession of ammunition. Yeah. That's after he was flown to the United States on February fifteenth. It is held without Bill. So that April he pled not guilty to all charges and was ordered to be held again without bail. Over the following months. Is defense team argued how the case dismissed, but they were unsuccessful do they work very hard. They had issues with the search 'cause they claim that it was so had not given permission for them to search his home. So that all the evidence that they gathered from searching his home should be dismissed. And they also had this is the time when there is a big to do DNA testing in the state lab in Massachusetts, what kind of to do a huge backlog reports of poor work of cases got dismissed because of lack of verifiable DNA testing. I would just say in this case, you don't even need the DNA circumstantially, he seems guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. So but his lawyer wanted both these objections. Sure neither of which were upheld. But it made the trial get postponed quite a bit. It was it was a while. Yeah. In December two thousand six it was nearly a year after Rachel and Lillian had been killed that officers at the jail where Neil was being held found letters to his parents and his legal team, which indicated that he was depressed in may have been contemplating suicide and after that he was transferred to the Bridgewater state hospital and evaluated, but he was cleared in return to the jail after several delays. It was in June two thousand eight when the jury selection process began for Neil's trial, some media reported that potential jurors were saying that they already had formed opinions on his guilt. Neal is found guilty on all charges on June twenty fifth two thousand eight and he was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole that next day before legal arguments in the trial ended on June twenty third after deliberating for nine hours over two days. The jury had found Neil guilty of first degree. Murder is also found guilty of the illegal possession of a firearm and amunition again, he was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole, and this is a mandatory sense or someone convicted of first degree murder in the state of Massachusetts. The judge in post two concurrent life sentences in the days after sentencing, the verdict went to automate appeal in the high court, what has happened since two thousand eight all appeals have been denied the supreme court of the United States has refused to hear the case. So at this point looks like it was has no appeals left. He Tober two thousand eight Neil's parents filed a complaint of harassment against their local newspaper the Worksop guardian. The complaint was rejected Neil's parents continue to insist that their son is innocent of the murders claiming that Rachel was the true killer. And that he will eventually be cleared and released from prison. Neil's mother told reporters the evidence points to Rachel murdering our grandchild, and then committing suicide now, of course, this is a specially her filter Rachel's family, so unless they have a real reason to believe this. They really shouldn't be saying that I understand it's their son but come on. It's an awful thing to say, not only were Rachel and her baby murdered. But then Rachel's memories just tainted with these claims that she killed her baby insult to injury doesn't. There's no indication that she would have done that. No, no. So this one interesting tidbit from prison in August of two thousand eight Neal was tricked into shaving his head in an attempt to secure the protection of a white supremacist prison gang. But instead of giving him protection the gang had reportedly said, it's a nice gesture on your part, but we're gonna kill you. Anyway. So after that Neal was put into protective custody inside the prison and that December he was transferred to the medium security prison old colony Correctional Center in Bridgewater, Massachusetts. So do you have any doubts in your mind that Neil did this? Even if you try to invoke the mother doing it, the MSCI cradled the baby next to her shot the baby through the stomach and it entered her body. So I don't think she's going to try to do that. Right. We're forgetting that the baby's face was injured as well. Takes a real sick fucker to do that. And there is no gun found on the premises. So how do you kill yourself and the weapon disappears? I think Neil's claim was that he found them and took the gun back to his stepfather his father in law's house to protect Rachel's memory, and he knew that gonna come from his father in law's house. I guess used it. All right. This is too far fetched to even begin to believe. Yeah. We're gonna throw that out. So the more on this case, what would we recommend? I know there's a book called heartless the true story of Neil Entwistle in the cold blooded murder of his wife and child that was written by Michelle McPhee. And there was some documentaries as well. Right. We watched forgive whose network was on. But we saw couple. Yeah. Pretty well known case. I mean, if you go on YouTube, you'll find a lot about it is is a big deal when we were living in New England. Yeah. But it seems pretty open and shut I don't really have any questions about what happened too much. It's not a mystery. No, I don't think I don't either the music for true crime brewery is written in produced by tristen Capelle. Please send us your comments in case suggestions for feedback feature that we have at the end of each episode. If you go to Tigra dot com and leave us voicemail, and if we play it on an episode, we will send you a free true crime burry t-shirt to offer support to true crime burry and get access to our members only Ed free episodes, please go to our website, Tigra dot com. Subscribe for a small monthly contribution. You'll receive a package of cool TC gifts all access to true crime Burri premium, which is our members only show, and we're probably going to be pretty fun of you for the rest of our days. We will he added have undoing gratitude the BS spot in our hearts for you. This episode of true crime brewery has been sponsored by ADT ADT can design and install a smart home. Just for you. Backed by twenty four seven protection this can include doorman service, which is AT automation that unlocks the door for package deliveries friends or your kids turn down service, at arm's you system, Lexi, doors and turns Daniel lights and thermostat at bedtime. This is all controlled from the ADT app, or by the sound of voice. Just visit ADT I've com slash smart. To learn more about how ADT can design and install a secure smart home. Just for you. Okay. Now, let's do feedback. Okay. We got four voice messages to begin with. Yeah. So the first one is from Ryan in case suggestion. All right. Let's hear what Ryan had to say. Hey, guys, Ryan from Canada, just calling the sale eager to favorite chew, come CLYDE casts out there that you guys are the curious coupla I've ever heard now I sent the suggestion about a couple of months ago at never end up hearing it on the show, and I just wanted to say, thank you. And my suggestion was Bruce MacArthur Tron on -tario Canada killed numerous men in round the GTA going into gay clubs, and he owned a. A business landscaping business where he would cut up the bodies place them in the pots and in there and hit continue on with this day. Here's just uncovered earlier this year in like the hey rendition. Unless creepy old, man. Thanks, guys. More thing. I didn't just call for the t shirt contests. I did end up sending a while back. I just don't know what happened to it. So hope you guys have a good one in Australia dig either. Great take care. Thanks, ryan. Yes. Thank you. So I do remember getting avoi- Smale from your Ryan awhile back and something was wrong with the audio wasn't able to play it. I'm glad that you call back that you persevered. Yes. So you're gonna send me an Email with your address in your shirt size. That's what we need. Okay. So this is an interesting thing. This is about men disappearing between two thousand ten two thousand seventeen and there's a task force created to linked to disappearance of three men of South Asia Middle East and origin called project Houston. Now, they didn't achieve much success in this task force. And then fast forward to two thousand seventeen. There is more and more public speculation of a serial killer. And there was evidence gained from another missing persons investigation. Which led the Toronto police service to create a second divisional test for this when called project prison, and this was a little more successful in January of this year project prism investigators attain evidence connecting to disappearances to Bruce MacArthur who is a sixty six year olds landscaper. They arrested Mr. MacArthur on January eighteenth two thousand eighteen okay. So he goes to trial yet to look at some more. I don't think he's been tried yet. But he cut bodies in put them in pots the allegation that he killed people. Dismembered them and put them in flower pots and bury them, that's horrific creative. Let's not give him any positive feedback on that place. Okay. It's just creepy and gross. But it is. Okay. All right. Second voicemails from Tammy. All right Tammy. Hi Dylan dick for someone. Tell you. How great you two are at this podcasting. They the one podcast that I listen to seen as Tuesday rolls around. I heard gills plea for voicemails. And I'm not gonna lie. Thought of a free t shirt for my favorite podcast made me do some research for a case suggestion and some calling from the Ottawa Ontario Canada area. I thought it auto case interestingly, it was one of the first high profile uses of DNA in the city. This is a case of four young poll boring you junior he had been found in the book sexually abused. In murdered. Little call was at the center of a Cassidy battle in had been left alone with his uncle while his father stayed over at his girlfriend's it took. Three months before anyone was charged with murder and the trial had to relate located due to the intense public attention. I'm hoping there's enough information on the case to cover as for a beer. I'm sorry everyone, but I'm a stout drinker. I'd like to suggest a beer from bos-, which is just east of the city in Vancouver. Kill on -tario. Come green milk stout is one of my all time favorite fears from bos- in it's delicious. Thanks again for all you do. I love the quiet. Thank you fix Tammy. Yes. Thanks for the suggestion. So what we're able to find out about Paul well, Tammy pretty much outlines in June of nineteen eighty nine sergeant Ellen. Windsor was one of several offices looking for this missing toddler. This is a little boy who is at the center of a custody dispute, and he had been left home alone with his uncle by his father who decided to sleep over his girlfriend's house. So in the boy disappeared they're trying to find him. So sergeant Windsors when of thirty or more detectives looking for the boy he saw an out of place box on top of dumpster near the boys home, and when he opened the box. He saw a green garbage bag upon opening the bag found the brutalized. Sexually abused young Paul. So they found fairly quickly. It's heartbreaking. An autopsy showed the boy had been savagely side of mice and strangled alleged belt. Took nearly three months before his own club is charged for the boy's murder and two more years before is convicted the case as Cammy suggested. Or said was one of the first high-profile uses DNA seamen gathered from the boys bed was connected to his uncle and used as evidence during the trial. Clud bourgeois. No was sentenced to life in prison for the crime. Wow. His own uncool horrific, well and his father left him there. Yeah. We don't know how much father knew about the on call. So I don't know what to say about that. Without knowing more row. I don't either. My suggestion is the father knew the uncollected was capable of. I would hate to think that but it is possible nine look at the wine Ville murders. I feel like relatives new with that. Guy was capable of. You're still they sent Sanford Clark with him. So it's certainly possible. But not knowing I wouldn't say, all right. We have another voicemail from Carol. This is Carol. Let's hear it high deca jail. My name is Carole. And I live in lung county, Michigan, first and foremost, I want to let you know that I love your show and can't wait til Tuesday's when I can listen, especially since I googled up your pitchers, and he'll look just as I thought you would. So now when I listen, I see your thoughtful handsome faces sitting at the quiet end telling your stories directly to me. I have a case suggestion and a beer suggestion for you. The case suggestions starts in act toper of two thousand one when twenty year old Levi high Smith's walking from a community mental health facility, tortured and killed three innocent people the victims were in elderly woman, her disabled dot. Water and their caregiver. He was seeking crisis counseling services from the facility and had described delusions regarding training to kill Osama bin Laden lava counselor had assessed him as a danger to south and others. He failed to contact the police for an escort to the hospital and that Levi leave the facility because he said he would go to the hospital himself and had ride. What is most tragic is not only were the three victims. But that Levi lacked appropriate council and ended up pleading to second degree murder. He received sixty to ninety years and his currently serving his time and muskegon correctional facility. Clearly this man was mentally ill and should be in a mental health hospital getting treatment. Also, what is interesting is that the events were swept on up in a very conservative town. The beer suggestion would be anything from Midland brewing company. Keep up the good work. And thank you. Thank you, Carol. So here we have a failure of a system, or at least a failure of someone working in a system just ends in tragedy for four people. Exactly. Yeah. Are you don't have anything really to head from what Carol orange stated? I'm wondering if any charges brought against the counselor at the mental health clinic. I doubt it. What would you charge it with? I'd figure out something. If she he or she said that the basically took high Smith's word for it that he gets himself to the mental health facility. That's just ridiculous. I mean, she probably or he'd probably should lose their job or their license. If it's as simple as that. We don't know. But Renault look into it. But it is a tragedy. Now, what about the beer? Did you respond about the other beer, the Bose beer? I didn't ask about post beer anything about that belatedly. Okay. We've had some bows beers. I've had the Bose look headlock or something like those very nice. Well, this is our winner. If you recall what early on couple years ago. Now our first first year of doing this podcast. We asked people submit their berry views, and we got such great entries. Goodson the women who won talked about both and sent us a couple drinking. Glasses which we still have their great glasses there. And then Carol had mentioned anything the beer Caroline had mentioned, the brewery Midland brewery thing him, I thought the name and the beer was anything. And I haven't tried any any middling beers yet. So we don't know anything about anything don't in bony. Okay. But we'll look into that to Craig. Okay. Does that it for voicemails? Or do we have one more more from Angela? Jeez. I'm just inundated. It's really great. Plus we have a few for next week already. So we do. So the next one is from who this is from Angela. Okay. And she also gives us a case suggestion perfect. Let's hear it. Hi, dick. And Jill my name is Angela Stoddard and I live in Milford, Ohio. As a new listener, I have been listening to some of the cases that are familiar to me. I one of those was the Jeffrey MacDonald case from Fort Bragg, North Carolina. Having lived in that area for ten years. I had the opportunity to learn about those murders as well as another brutal family murder that occurred there in the eighties. I came across it when my now ex husband was stationed in Fort Bragg, and we were looking to buy a home just outside of the base. My coworkers told me that a murder had happened in the neighborhood that we were looking so I looked into it because I didn't want to purchase that particular house. This crime occurred in nineteen eighty five neighbors discovered the bodies of Catherine Eastbourne in two of her daughters and also in infant who was still alive barely but unharmed in her crib. The family was discovered days after the crime because Catherine's. Has been a soldier was away in training at the time. There's a great deal of information on this case the investigation and trials free guys to delve into. But the short of it is that Tim heinous also show a soldier answered an ad to adopt the Eastbourne dog and upon learning that Mr. Eastbourne was away in training. He came back to the home to rape, Catherine in up murdering her in the two girls now during his first trial. He was found guilty. But after appeals he was granted a second trial in which he was found not guilty. So he resumed his life and even retired from the military, then in two thousand sixty thousand seven the case was reopened after new DNA tests linked him to the murders from the semen sample that was taken from Catherine. So the military called him back into active duty to be tried for the murders through military jurisdiction. So double jeopardy would not be a factor in two thousand ten he was found guilty and is currently on death row. Now, there is a book and a movie that were made. On this case before the new DNA evidence surfaced in the third trial occurred. This case has a great deal of depth to it. And I would just love to hear you guys cover it from the quiet in. Thanks. Okay. Thank you. Angela sounds like Angeles already done all the research for us stick. I don't have to summarize what Angeles said now, we can just put her on the payroll right now, but we've been interested in these burn murders in it was something that was who was something that we got more interested in when we were doing the McDonald case because it does have sort of similar overtones with a women in daughters. Children be murdered Shah. And that's an anything was how he'd been tried convicted overturned on appeal and found innocent. Well, yeah, it's his some similarities, but it also is very different in. There's a lot more to it through. Yeah. So so we are doing it. And we've got a scheduled for a couple of months now early January Easter. Yep. So. Stay tuned. Angela. Yeah. That one will definitely be covered. Okay. Onto the emails. Okay. This first ones along one. He let me read it read it. It's your call. You're going to do it. This is from last week. We did a case suggestion from Corean Kelly, a husband and wife who like to listen to us. And this is the second case suggestion, and there's also some comment that they have. So all yours Joe. But no comments that I'm not gonna wanna wait, right? Okay. Korean kelly. Right. The second case involves a precious innocent and defenseless child. This child should have been protected nurtured loved educated and respected what this child received was neglect. Intolerance, lack of patients physical abuse in a heinous burial at the hands of his mother and stepfather moms come in LA husband. This case is very difficult due to the fact that it involves the death of a five year old child. Jordan rodrigue. Says son of Louis Rodriguez and stepson of Christopher Rodriguez. Larisa had ten children, many of whom she didn't have custody of it would be interesting to hear gills, very compassionate. Yet matter of fact, perspective and Dick's expertise in the area of pediatrics so often a child is stripped of the ability to be physically emotionally, healthy adult just based on the environment. He she was raised in our granddaughter his appeal attrition mom in a neurosurgeon, dad. So the introspective this case would be appreciated. Her little granddaughter is also the blonde loud, hugging everyone. Silly girl at the synagogue every Saturday. Don't get started about the baby we would go on prepare graphs. Why are seventy parents unfazed or desensitize to the killing of their children when we are intrinsically driven to protect our offspring understanding that our culture is over sexualize in over stimulated by indulge. Environment. Do people choose a partner over offspring? His attention acceptance in validation of oneself or replacement for parental obligation. Is it poor parenting? That is at the root cause of these deaths. Is it selfishness neediness how could this sweet soul be so brutally abused at the hands of his own caregivers and buried in unmarked grave in the backyard in order to avoid detection, our own children are grown adults and received the sweet loving and nurturing support in devotion of their parents, should our American culture be digging into our souls to be parents who reject impulse and teach only proactive solutions we say, yes, nurture guide, love educate support, personal identity and individuality. Enjoy your New Mexico, quiet end end cheers to fabulous beers. Well, thank you Korean Kelly, really thought provoking Email. Now, let's talk a little bit about the case a veteran judge for the first time in her career broke down in tears as she sentenced demand in women who killed the five year old boy in buried his body in an unmarked grave in their backyard common. Pleas court Judge Nancy Margaret Russo sentence Luis Rodriguez to twenty five years in prison and minutes later, the judge could no longer contain her tears as she looked at photographs of the little boy's body before she sentenced Christopher Rodriguez. I know as a judge, I'm not supposed to show emotion. And in twenty two years. I never have Russo said quietly, but this is one of the worst things I've ever seen in my life. I don't know how you live with yourself. She said till the risk Rodriguez in Christopher Rodriguez who each pleaded guilty to charges of involuntary manslaughter felonious assault child endangering in the gross abuse of a corpse in Jordan staff. The plea was part of a deal with prosecutors allowed the couple to avoid trial for murder which carries a potential life sentence while prosecutors in defense lawyers for the couple agreed to a recommended sentence of between twenty and twenty five years for both of them. But the judge after breaking down in tears rejected that recommendation for Christopher Rodriguez and she sentenced him to the maximum of twenty eight years in prison. Whatever this child's life was supposed to be. She said you made sure it didn't happen. Jordan was actually twenty six weeks premature in head only one kidney when he was born. He was one of nine children that LaRussa had the boy's aunt. And uncle wrote a letter that said, they tried to intervene and. And get help for Jordan. But LaRussa and Christopher Rodriguez. Always rebuffed them they recalled that the last time they saw the boy he ran to his uncle when he came home from work in ADA family dinner on his lap. Jordan was a special sweet little boy who would have developed in bloomed into a special soul. We need died. They just decided to bury him in the backyard. They put mothballs in the bags. They wrapped him into keep animals from digging him up. The boy's death went on reported for two months until Cleveland police received a tip so tragic case it is isn't it? I do like the idea of discussing the social aspects of parenting. What do you think? Many. We have done similar cases with child services being involved in kids that fall through the cracks. And they're some of the most heartbreaking cases, we've done very are. We've talked about these things and I'm only half joking. When I say that you shouldn't just be have kids who had a licensor something. There would be some committee. Right. I agree. But certainly fragile parents in our society that need all the help. They can get a lot of times. Maybe most of the time. It's not available to them. Right. But this is the kind of case if you do an episode on something like this. It makes for a very rough week if not a rough year just thinking about it and dealing with the details of it. So I really have to my heart goes out to judges and police officers in people who are actually dealing hands on with these things. He how do you cope with that? It's a real sacrifice in your life to deal with these sorts of things it is. I also like the comment the Korean Kelly through in at the end about basically pairing thing doesn't. Stop when your children get to be adult. Oh, sure. I mean, we know that because. Yeah. I will look more into that. I think it's probably a case we'd be interested in doing. But it's gonna be tough to do. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, the next Email is from Alana I'm gonna let you read this one. It's a comment on Palo mccranie. Next to our comments on Palo. Okay. This one's from friend of the show Alana, this is the same Alana who's written before right alone. Alexis like Alana. So she says I wasn't familiar with this case. But can see why interested you his Conn took many smart degreed people, and it is a cautionary tale for rigorous scientific documentation for baffled gab. I like that word you too. I to consider it murder, especially as he falsified his data and has patients suffered terribly died know, Hippocratic oath the first do. No harm practiced here. More baffling as he could have had a career as skilled functioning doctor. I wonder how early in his life is BS started. Because he seemed quite skilled at it. By the time, he starts gaining notice permission for his trachea procedure. I think the comparison deduct Joseph Mangla is app both remained free hard to understand what he didn't get charge even with manslaughter. But I suppose that would have embarrassed some people, including the Caroline's institute not much info on thinking podcasts might help to create some deaths during this comfort for mockery as he deserves many things for another excellent. Well, thank Salona, and you wanna talk about David's comment. Hurry, David's comment. Sure. I just wanted to say one thing about Alana's is why he didn't go to jail. I mean, there are poor people who steal a TV and go to jail for a long time and he killed people. But because he's a wealthy doctor. I feel like that's a big part of why he got away with it. Remember, those still reviewing some charges, and he might be charged again. He might be here. Here's getting away with a lot so far. Yes. Okay. David's comment on the same case put the in because this is a scientist who's actually done some research. Great can address a couple of things he can address why pow scaffold of plastic wasn't going to work, and it can also address the rigorous testing the needs to be done. So you gave this one to me because their words in here. I'll have trouble pronouncing eating laugh. No, okay. All right. So David says, hey, guys, the science or lack thereof in using plastic as a scaffolding for human tissue. His pretty unbelievable. I used to work in a preclinical research facility and all of our research had to be funded through some organization like NIH. H heart-lung in blood institute or some other similar source also in IRB head to review anything that was going into a human do European countries not used similar methods in getting research approved. We also used good lab practices when recording data if we wrote an animal's way. Sorry, Jill we used rats bunnies. Pigs in shape on our hand. So as not to forget we had to photocopy the hand for GOP data for one project. A researcher wanted to test P T F E Gortex against bovine urinary matrix as myocardial patch which would be in the heart myocardial, correct? Once the patches were in place stem cells were introduced after three months, we sack the pigs in all kinds of history. Tests were done in. It turned out. UB 'em was superior to P T F E U B M was an excellent scaffold for angiogenesis. The P T F. E after three months was not absorbed. It was rigid and surrounding myocardium was a critic as a reverse killers. Asian never happened. I'm leaving out many steps and information to keep it shortish. If we tried P T F E N, a human how many people involved in the research would be in prison, but then again, doctors and surgeons in particular getaway with malpractice. Sometimes what do you say doctor, dick? We couldn't have said this any better the highlight was that the urinary bovine matrix could serve the scaffold through angiogenesis. And the plastic not in the least. So when they didn't go ahead and put them in people didn't even try. They're not like how. So it was a great litter. He thinks a lot Dave. Thanks pitted. Last one case suggestion from Liz, she wonders if we have heard of the company theranos, I think that's the pronunciation there's a book. Describes the Freud John Kerry, you wrote a book called bad blood secrets in lies in a Silicon Valley startup having grown up in Silicon Valley. Of course, spark my interest who is a buffoons who is a Stanford dropout swindled companies and prominent people such as George Shultz and Henry Kissinger, George Shultz, his grandson was Elissa blower, and even then his grandfather did not believe I'm sure to could find an nice northern California beer to review could explain why this innovative way of drawing blood would be good or bad. So what did you find out about this? I I don't know if you have. But I've never heard of it. There. We saw sixty minutes did we pursued? You don't remember one of sixty oh twenty twenty minutes of it is really cool in a sense. It's kinda similar to Palo the person who. Founded this company around us Toronto, Elizabeth homes. She claimed that she had developed devices to automate and miniaturize blood tests using microscopic blood volume's, well that would be handy. Wouldn't it? It would. So you'd need especially in pediatrics when you try and draw their blood, and you just get tiny little bit. Yeah. So they dubbed it split collection vessel, the Nanno -tainer and its analysis machine. The Edison the technology has been criticized for not being period viewed they claim to have data verifying accuracy and reliability of as tests that was published in February twenty sixteen and they announced it would permit. The Cleveland Clinic to complete a validation study of it's technology. So this happened in article appeared in the journal of clinical investigation. And it was stated that the company's blood test results were flagged outside their normal range one and a half times more than another testing services. Well, that makes them just invalid. And there's no point in it. But most of its will have measurements evaluated show. Significant interservice variability that lipid test results between theranos another clinical services were nine equivalent. This is again, similar Palo rapid rise. Rapid flow from grace. But they didn't kill anybody know, they didn't not that we know of. But they're they got lots of people invest in this scam. Again, it's kinda running another pyramid scheme. Probably would be a good thing to do maybe sometime in the next year. Well, maybe I mean, my only thought is with Palo. He actually killed people in an a true crime podcast. I we really going to get into a straight out fraud because most of our cases are actually violence murder. You're saying it's out of the range of possibility. But it is very different than what we do. A metric on some more influence if we can find some okay, I'll bring it back. All right. But those are good good discussions. Great feedback. You're just really making feedback so much better. I'm glad I handed it over to you. And thank you everyone. If you did have your voice mail read today. Don't forget to Email me with your address. In your preferred shirt size, so pack it in today. He asked I think we've done enough for today than will work on another episode. Sure. And we'll see if the quiet. All right. We'll see the quiet end. Bye. Bye. Bye guys.
Saving 2020 Sports, Bored Quarantine Tales and the 2000 Redraftables (The NBA Draft W.O.A.T.) With Ryen Russillo | The Bill Simmons Podcast
"Tonight's episode of the Bill Simmons podcast on the Ringer podcasts. That were brought to you by world central kitchen. Their relief team working across America safely distribute individually packaged fresh meals in communities that need support takeoff for children and families delivers for Seniors. Who can't venture outside their serving tens of thousands of meals daily in nyc? Washington Miami Los Angeles many other big cities. They've also formed Hashtag chefs for America. A coalition of restaurants and tech companies working together to provide meals to Americans that need assistance. And they're supporting local hospital workers people everyone who's on the front line working in wartime like conditions as well as local restaurants who've been impacted by the cove nineteen crisis. How are they doing that? By launching initiatives across America to deliver fresh hot meals to hospitals and clinics fighting on the frontlines go to W. C. K. 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Boyd put up Thursday night last week we have total recon enemy the stay come in this week. We're also going to be doing one. More redraft ables beyond the two thousand draft. That we're about to do with Russillo in the second half of this podcast doing two thousand one with my old friend Zach Lowe so both of those are going up on the basketball if you missed any of the ones we did last week. Ninety six ninety seven eight and nine you can find all those on the book a basketball two point zero podcast man. Four weeks ago Did Not expect that that would be the last time we had a normal Sunday night. Podcast with Priscilla. I hope everybody is staying safe. Listen at the doctor's listening to Scientists and tried to stay away from people until we can get through this hope. Your family is safe. Let's bring in our friends from pro jam. All right Saturday Ryen Russillo here. As only four weeks ago we arguing about Lebron versus Janas the MVP and we had a whole rest of the best plus late against us and now this is just becoming the new normal we had. I guess the biggest thing that happened this weekend. The President Donald Trump talked to all of the commissioners except for the tennis commissioner. Because did you know there wasn't a Tennis Commissioner Russillo? It found that out this I do now. Yeah seriously. That's good content for some of these shows should tennis have Commissioners Abe. Lot feels like it so the tennis was not represented but somehow the wwe was and trump talked all these commissioners about could we do some. How can we get sports going by September and this is something that has been a recurring theme the last couple of pods? I've done I think. People slowly coming to grips with the fact that sports by not becoming back until September. I WanNa do a sports thing like if we were appointed Co Sports Ours. But before we do that. Are you coming to grips with the fact that sports might be going away for a long time including football like we might have the rest of the two thousand twenty here with no sports? I'M GONNA make not ready for that. Okay I'm not I'm not ready for that yeah Yeah I think a lot of people you know in the beginning of anything I can't really say anything like this because we don't have anything to compare it to but in the beginning it's it's not something that I'd WanNa be right about in the prediction phase a few days in because he just you don't know and I I think a lot of people are probably realizing the magnitude and how much more serious this is and Any any projections that we had even a couple of weeks ago seem ridiculous. I mean even some of the stuff that was coming out charts and I remember reading. Oh the mass doesn't really matter and now everybody's being told you should wear a mask. Kids can't get it. Dogs can't get it and I saw something about a tire getting it so I don't know what to believe anymore but I do know that with uncertainty. Mike leads to write no but any serious. It means with more uncertainty. It means less ability to come to some conclusion on this so we did. The podcast March fifteenth. I believe is when I talked to somebody. You know different leagues sources and then a League office person that was like look. We're kind of just collectively. Shrugging her shoulders on this. And that was kind of sixty days out which would have been may fifteenth. And then we'll have the piece almost immediately that night but we're taping saying ninety days which is even further out so there's no news that we've gotten that makes us think that this thing is going to get figured out sooner than later. I guess I'm just still trying to be a sliver of an optimist here in that. Maybe if things calm down people go well wait a minute. Maybe we don't have to write off the rest of two thousand twenty because I'm not there yet. Despite the increase in magnitude. Can I ask you how they figured out that? The Tiger had corona virus like with the Tiger little sluggish was the trainer. Worried like like what's wrong with Tommy The tiger with going is he won't need is meet today and we should get him tested. And Are we really wasting Corona Test Tagger? I'm not a big fan of some of the social media when somebody goes they got tested. And it's like Oh they got tested. You know when the person's now there's some times if somebody's getting tested and you're like yeah. I can kind of understand what that person get tested. Heaven other people getting tested. I can understand if you're listening to a family member that hasn't been able to get a test or didn't get a test right away but yeah if you wanna go ahead and say must be Nice Tiger and get a test. I I would probably be okay with that one. My my son is lingering 'cause wrestlemainia starting a I told her class. I told him recipe started at seven. I think he just figured out that. I lied to because I wanted to watch it to him after we did. The Pot I I'm pessimistic for sports because the more I think about it. What scenario is there where people are going to want to be in a crowd? I brought this up the last couple pods but now I'm I'm doubling down unless there's a vaccine and everybody's like There's no vaccine for fifteen to eighteen months. Then you know. We could flatten the curve. We could do the whole thing. Less people could have it like we could ease the burden on the hospitals. All that stuff. But eventually if there's no vaccine and it's kind of lingering and then somebody get it's just gonNa keep going so I don't. I don't see a scenario where I'm in a crowd. I guess is what I'm trying to tell you okay before. He addressed the crowd part of it though. Because you are right like any part of this. There's no part of this where I read something. Like when trump says hey after he praises his own ratings and make some joke about dating models. And then it's like okay. Let's get to the pandemic though now that I've got that out of the way let's get to the pandemic. I don't care that he's like L. Football Zing Zang little. Boom you know start tackling people September for I could be sitting around a bunch of astronauts being like. What do you guys think about Mars like in two years? It doesn't mean anything brands. Nothing and it's not even being anti-trump that's just being pro reality and for him to come up with anything where I'm supposed to read some article where we sat with all the commissioners a sports and his. It's trump says football by September. I this guy one of the country ready to go by Easter because it sounded right so I just and this isn't even political. It's just simply. Why am I putting any any thought into like okay? That's going to change my mind because it shouldn't change anybody's mind because you're right. It isn't just about the crowd thing it's about the medical medical field but their capability to be able to handle any of this stuff and then the scary thing where none of us should believe any number from China. I don't WanNa hear anything from China. Nothing and I also look at this as you know some of the stuff you could read. Where if the weather starts getting colder again the starter football around that time like we could. We have this thing where it's cycles back. Like we were through it and then all of a sudden I it it kinda comes back so then what but I'll defend. I'm not deferring to you but I'm following up on what you said you can be anti crowd but don't you think that there's a lot of wins if people can find a way to get these games on television with no one watching them live. No sound in the venue. So we're taping this Sunday afternoon. My son and I watched wrestlemainia part one last night. There's no no fans I was kinda shocked how much I didn't like it and you realize now this is wrestling. This isn't like a real sport. You know real sport like it's not the NBA playoffs. You sure yeah. I'm pretty sure reasonably sure we realized with wrestling wrestling was kind of exposed. Because you realize how. Much of wrestling is entrances and fans reacting to entrance music and like here is Ryan Russillo and your music's playing you come out. You walk down the runway. You go you go into the ring you stand on the on the top one of the robes and you do your thing. Stick your chest out. What's that's removed. All you really have is people fake fighting. And the best part of part one yesterday which was also terrible was the undertaker. Has this outdoor batch that they film like a movie. So it was almost like a scene. From roadhouse he's fighting. Aj styles through multiple cameras. They're doing a couple stunts. That maybe you wouldn't be able to laugh. Thing is actually pretty good. I so wrestling was exposed. My question is if we're just watching. Mba players with no crowd noise. I just think it's going to be too weird. I don't see a scenario where I'm like. This is awesome. I CAN'T WAIT FOR GAME. Five like a probably watch it. 'cause ON BOARD WE'RE GONNA GO ROB Lee probably you're one hundred percent watching it. We're both watching all of it. I don't know I thought I'd be awesome baby and I made it in our half okay. Look I'm sorry because there was no guy with a sign that says tim an Arrow pointing down to the background that you ensure him ruin but to compare wrestling to any of this stuff just said that's real honestly think game five of the NBA finals with no one there after you become accustomed different. I'm talking about like if we're talking in round two now. What what else are you doing doing? Tell me what you think. It will be weird. But here's kind of no. I'm just GonNa be thinking the whole time. This isn't just doesn't feel right into it here. Here's what I think would happen. Though is that I. I've been a long believer in this that. If you want to change something about yourself you have to kind of make it through those twenty eight thirty days right. If you want to work out you've got to find a way over the course of a month to go three or four days a week and then after a month it kind of feels routine and if you don't do it something's missing If you want to work on a book like you have like it sucks to get started and you think everything's terrible but if you just do a little bit each day. It's the same way with studying if you read. If you're like I never read will read for like a month straight musical any of this stuff. So in the beginning it is weird. The wrestling thing is one of your first experience with fans and so it should be weird it you should enjoy it less but if we had weeks of NBA Games NFL Games. Baseball with no one there. I really think we'd accepted says new normal where no one has to argue. Is it actually better? Although I ache would wouldn't be hilarious. Billick is the NBA. Actually better fans Because of the baseline it won't be so it won't be. I'm in agreement with you but I I honestly think everything should now be pointed towards. What's the safest way to get this stuff back on? Tv because the players are going to lose money. I know already things. I'm pro owners. I'm not but they're worried about their money The television part of this different right pro owner Ryen Russillo the people that whether it's the ad revenue that ESPN has to make good back. You know like those make goods on stuff and then just the amount of things that could be connected to try to salvage some revenue stream for not just owners and players but a bunch of things around at the advertisements that are being sold all the people that will lose their jobs in sales because that stuff is not coming in. I have to think only if it's safe because the counter is now you can't do that. And how many people can be working on a truck and all these different things. I'd have to think that there's some sort of neutral location where they could get. Some of these games back on and ratings would probably do well enough. Despite the fact that people be annoyed. You know France like fans. That's what I would be working on and thinking about the entire time right now. Can I tell you what I would do? That would actually get excited to watch it. I think the party can't get around. Is How depressing would be to watch these guys playing in a completely empty Ridha. I think the move so like it's as you know if the Seltzer if the Celtics are playing the bucks an empty arena. Obviously I'd watch it. I won't be dramatic. He if they're playing each other at like equinox and it's like hey man you hear about the run yesterday the Celtics payback's really can here. He could acts like yeah. Yeah they were. They were just running. They just decided to. Plato ONE HUNDRED. So maybe the key. If we're GONNA do this you know without fans may be changed venues to like. Maybe the Lakers play at pepperdine. Pepperdine's like a thousand seats. It's just a little more intimate. Maybe even go a little less. Maybe you just play in high school gyms you know maybe pick like. I don't know some some five hundred seat high school gym and do it that way. So it's like contained and the noise will feel differently in a row just kind of feel more fun. Maybe is different uniforms. Maybe just go shirts skids. I don't I don't know I just think if it's going to be different like it should really be different. It just shouldn't be like all right here. The Lakers versa clippers in an empty staple center. This won't be weird at all like get get invented with it all right but so you're all right so I I saw an agent the other day saying you know if I'm a player do I have a right to to not have to play right. Could I point to the scare? The threat of the coronavirus. That number is going to be so minimal compared to the amount of guys that don't WanNa lose twenty five percent of the regular season paycheck and then all the playoff money on top of everything else if you think of the four hundred and fifty players in obviously it's a bigger number than that. I mean Hell and football we had over two thousand guys eligible to vote on the new. Cba what percentage do you think wants to get back to work especially in football to make sure they don't miss that paycheck so it was weird as it is and I think you're venue? Change thing is is fine. If it's safer even better solution but really the only thing you should be mattering is. We don't care how it looks. We just wanted on TV because it salvages something here. And if I'm a player what I'd be worried about. So what's your purpose to keep going with? No fans and like this kind of macgyver revenue. This is just money that's it. Yeah why I'm GonNa say the thing now on the podcast that everybody else is afraid to say openly because no owner wants to come out and say like hey. We're trying to salvage his money but if I'm a player why do I WANNA lose money? Why why do I own is that is again? And I'm going to say this probably for the last time because it should be accepted that is again if there's enough medical that can say well. This is actually doable. And this doesn't put everybody in a really dangerous situation If you were of the belief that no one should ever be talking to anybody you know and everybody should be isolated You know those I don't. I'm not going to be able to counter an argument with you. The counter would be they start doing this and like four days and it turns out. Somebody has the corona virus cause some twenty two year old. He's out the night before and he's like fuck it. My two friends came over in then. That friend had just been somewhere in all of a sudden. Somebody has it now. You have to stop the tournament again and you have a bear situation. That'd be one thing so well you're you're right. I mean everything that I'm presenting here is theoretically where the country feels better off sixty to ninety days from now that okay. What this this could be. Something big happened I don't think this thing's going to. I'm just watching the behavior of even like You know I think some neighborhoods have embraced this more than other. But if you read the news. There's a lot of parts of the country. Were there like fuck social distancing. Don't tell me what to do and it's just. I don't think this thing's going to the way it is. It's like if if you get if you have it and you in vicinity of somebody else you're gonNA give it to them and either they're a symptomatic or they're gonNA actually get it and they might carry it not even know it and give it to somebody else and I I'm really pessimistic about You Know Way with no vaccine. How does life go back to normal? I think football will be the one because nobody is greater than the NFL guys. They're going to figure this out. They're going to figure out a way to do it. And they're just GONNA do it and their attitude would be like look the we're we're plowing ahead even if this is like a twelve game season whatever but if you run that call last night me. New are the CO Czars of football. Trump goes ours is sports and trump's like hey I got all the commissioners on you guys have a plan I think the first thing in my plan would be like we got to have a drop dead day for baseball. It can't be we can't just kind of drag along and play this by air. It's gotta be like if we don't start by this date. There's GonNa be no baseball like what is this. What is the schedule for a season? Look like what is the plastic like it probably is like a seventy game season right. Maybe more teams make the playoffs if shorter series but whatever version of it. It's lasting for about three and a half months and there's got to be a drop dead date for that because you want these guys playing even if they came back. They're not be playing baseball. In mid-november Ludicrous. So my first thing would be what date to start baseball? So what is it safe July first July first spring training or starting the actual season? You know what I would. I just think spring training a little different. I mean the problem is pitchers. You'd have to trust that. I do think you know one of the things that has been better about. Sports is that because of Instagram. And because of everybody bragging about their workouts all his stuff even though because some guys just totally full of Shit and just a side note to draft prospects pushing a car on wheels. I don't know why we still think this is impressive. In Two thousand twenty. It's not that fucking to push a car on a road if it's flat and then somebody the other day was like this. Guy's doing it with the car that has brake lights. Do you guys realize that you can tap the break in the brake lights. Go on but the brakes are not engaged and we actually were like social media. Believed THAT AN OFFENSIVE. Lineman was pushing a truck where the guy had pressed the breaks all the way down all right all right that rance over so you have pitchers who have to make sure their arms are built up the right way. I think you trust that. Most of them did that. I think guys are so tuned in now to prepping their arms getting stronger they ask you just do it. You go outside and you throw a baseball and then you start doing it. Further and further the Winfield Vol- pens. And then you do you know I know. But what if what if? You're if you're on the mets and you have an apartment in New York City and you're staying at your folks house and you don't have like somebody to throw to and you can't go anywhere had he. How do you like working? Your arms is your thing I don't. I don't know that we're going to be yet. We're not going to be good Kosar's then because you don't want anything to start no. It's not that I don't want anything to start. I'd want to really try to figure out. How many weeks would it take for these guys to be ready like? I feel like they should be doing all this stuff now. Talking to all different trainers and players like hey if we just said it's go time. How many weeks would you really need figure that out? So is that seventeen days is at twenty days. Is that ten days. What is that and then the second piece would be all right. Then what's our schedule? Seventy or eighty arena doubleheader shoe seven inning games. She tried to do two games in one day to kind of move the schedule along What's are playing there. And then what's the playoff plan? How long is that? How many teams bake it or we're doing best to three. I feel like they should be talking about this stuff now and I haven't heard anything. 'cause June is now two months away less you know by but why would I say on April Fifth July first drop dead date for baseball and I don't know how anybody would say that why does NFL have to talk about week? One being in jeopardy right now we don't know. Do you honestly think you know what you could be as negative as possible. Let me let me say I'll be as negative as you are. I still why. Why would I start making decisions in the beginning of April about what's happening September first especially if I'm football knowing that I don't have any like Arena stadium Crossover issues I don't have to worry about it the way the NBA does yeah baseball and basketball and the clock. No my question is and I'm sure they're having these discussions. I would just love to know more about them. They think baseball should just start. You know like I know that sounds. Hey the pictures are going to be ready. Oh well that's on you that's on you to find a way to get his ready as you can through this whole thing like what are you supposed to do? Just sit around and not do anything right. He playing right now anyway. So you know we know there'll be guys that don't take it seriously. I think more athletes take it more seriously today and instead of trying to do. Let's do two weeks of spring training if they can even get this thing going again but for every league it's about salvaging any way to put anything on the horse thing comes out where the NBA gave me my start. Having these horse competitions up to right now go for it. Like my first thought isn't let me tear apart your horse proposition. My first thought is get is creative as you want. Putting anything on television yeah. I wasn't one hundred percent against the horse saying that. I was a huge advocate of it. I used to read calms about it and they did it in. Oh nine and two thousand ten and it just didn't work and it's so funny like what you have in your in your head for what would be fun about horse isn't how it actually plays out. When the guys are getting competitive they ended up just shooting like 20-footers or twenty eight footers or whatever. And they're not like doing the pete marriage like sitting on sitting on the floor bank shots and stuff like that they just. Don't play it that way. Saturday. How you would make it work more creative. I'm positive I don't want Dwayne Wade involved. Though that's the only thing I know for sure do I knew retired. Like J. Hang it up doing. It's it's just mean he retired times now can you? We've we've had four ceremonies for you. It's over just retire. It's fine you're like the guy at the club who's fifty who who's hanging out the twenty year olds it's done. Hey take it easy for both of us. Now it's just these guys they Y- when you're done you're done you. Should you know part of part of retiring is being graceful about it and turning it over to the young guys and now? It's their league. It's not your league anymore you retired. You know what I reminds me of his. I Avenue decent secret collection and some of it was sent to me over the years. Some of it was boredom And I went. You know what He. What are we doing here and had a pair of the off whites that were really popular in. And they were the the Jordan ones the the blue ones and I saw co-worker wearing them and I went. I'm selling those this week and that's kind of what I think of when it comes to the Horse Competition. I don't know what the NBA is GonNa do. But I have the most confidence in the brain trust and the owners and silver and people like that out of all the league's have confidence in mlb versus NBA VERSA NFL. I just just the acute power in the room to actually like come to the right decision on some of this stuff because for some reason and I don't know whether it's because I love the NBA the most but for some reason. I trust that group the most and maybe I should trust the NFL. The most because those guys are ruthless. And they'll probably figure out the most ruthless way to do this but I think the NBA will actually like put real thought into all the variables to this. You said that though. I'm glad I'm glad you said it that way because the initial reaction is why the NBA's probably the most adaptable. Like they're the most open minded of any of the League's best debatable. But if we're talking strictly who will get product on the television sets the NFL such a heavy favor in this that it the Vegas has taken it off the board well and the other piece is just tell they're to do the NBA. The players will have a relationship to the decision. I think it'd be an whole league thing where they all decide to do it. I do think you're underestimating though. Two thousand plus players that have a shorter window in the NFL going. I don't WanNa lose any of these paychecks. Where the NBA? I don't think any of these guys really. WanNa lose their paychecks you know but the the number of NFL players that will say hey even the little gray area a little uncertainty. If things are things are coming around we feel better about this. But there's still a level of danger I don't care gum riskin concussions out there like get me out there because I may have three or four years earning power. I'm talking about a lot of the marginal players and all that stuff and knowing that they've raised while the raise minimum for the new. Cba SO WE'RE CO CZARS TRUMP SAYS RYAN. What do you think would he tom? Just in general set Ryan. What do you think I'd be like? I'm surprised that you're doing anything to help the NFL. Because I thought you're still mad about not getting a franchise that's true. Yeah I thought about that. That'd be great he's like NBA go NFL. Yeah not good sad I my pitch would be like. I already said I've already done. It would just be getting things on TV. It's not just about owners. It's not just about players. It would take care of a lot of other things. If there's some kind of product can we get to a level that safe enough we feel good and if that means? A bunch of teams quarantined in one city and running multiple games You know and I think after a while we'll get used to think the weirdest hell the first time you're watching NBA game or an NFL. Game with the one in the stands. But I think after a little while you go. This is better than not having it now. I watch three old playoff games today. Hey let's talk about the return of the fx original comedy. What we do in the shadows. The Hollywood reporter called the series first season quote ridiculously funny and warned that quote. You'll die laughing well. This season shadows continues to follow our four favor. Vampires who had been living together for hundreds of years at multiple pupil my life who loved the show what we do in the shadows premieres Wednesday April fifteenth on fx Streaming Next Day fx on Hulu. And if you miss season catch up now an fx on Hulu. I'd like to give you my top five most board things. I did during coronate so far number one. I signed my wife for survivor now. I don't know if she's GonNa get picked for real. Yeah I legitimately filled that hole advocation. I took a video of her talking. About how if she was on survivor She'd probably win some challenges but not eating a lot in eating infrequently like would make pretty hostile to other people so she'd be a great great cook character but ultimately they would kick her out so I have talked about that in the video but she does didn't realize I was filling up occasion for I did everything else and then Senate so you send it in for real I really a Senate for real with with offer Info and everything is signing your wife up for sale is signing your wife up for survivor and twenty twenty the two thousand nine hundred. Peleton gift if I say I my dream to see her on that show for twenty years because she really would be good during the challenge is if the problem is you know the whole thing of just like Oh rice again I she would lose it and if somebody like fuck with the race or eight half the rice and didn't tell the other people it would she'd be like swayze. Addenda roadhouse just like out the trap so That was number one number two. I watch seasons two through five of melrose place. It was odd. You skipped one because I had already watched it a million pre quarantine. I watched it it's on CBS all access. And how do you feel about yourself now watching it? What are we talking like almost thirty years later? Twenty seven years later. Now here's the thing I like having. Tv shows on in the background. When I'm doing other things that I'm doing emails when I'm writing Google. Docs whatever I liked to have either music or some TV show that that is Kinda on. But I don't have to really monitor like The third thing I did that this ties into it. I finally watched season one of ozark which had been one of those things where I'm like some day. I'm GonNa Watch that. I'm Kinda saving it like a nice bottle of wine. There'd be some moment where I'll be like all right. It's time what better moment than a Corinthian that one. I'm watching it. I'm not doing other things that I'm melrose place. It's just Kinda odd and just things are happening and people are having car accidents. Kimberley's pulling her wig off Allison and turns out. Her father was molesting her Sydney's a call girl then she's running the running the call girl serve. It's all just kind of happening in the background for me. That's number three. Show push the limits. It really did. It really did Number four I watched a lot of the nineteen ninety-one Bruins Penguins Series on Youtube. The bees had to nothing lead huge six five win and not Unbelievable Ray Bork era and then And then in game three same you'll saying cheap shotted neely. The series flipped but it's like peak peak lemieux Its peak neely till he gets hurt. It's one of my favorite bruins teams and I was just enjoying all of it so I devoured that and then my fifth one is I was driving the other day and NBA TV show was was the NBA radio station channel. Eighty six hundred serious. They were running for whatever reason game. Three of the nineteen ninety-five finals between Orlando and Houston. They're running the radio broadcast of it at the time and I got in the car and there was like nine minutes left and I got to where I was going and there was like three minutes left and I just sat in the car and listen to the end of it because I can remember what happened and what happened. Is there up one at the end and and big shot? Rob makes the backbreaking three to win it and they go up three nothing in this series but Clyde Drexler good the answers are into it and it just felt like basketball is really excited to have it back. The crowds going nuts. They're coming INADA commercial. They're talking about. Who SHOULD FOWL? Who as a this is great? This should just be on all the time so those are those are my top five bus board things. I've done. How `bout you can. I just ask you a follow up there. Yeah other than survivor thing. How different of those four. From the things you would do don quarantine I think. Youtube deep dives have have taken out a new level of desperation. Where you're just like. Hey what happened in the one thousand nine hundred eighty two and say tournament before the Georgetown North Carolina Game? You just go in and that that and then just the Amana TV. I'm watching is just staggering. It's really honestly like Ozark by the way. Oh Yeah you're Bateman guy so that was a layup great Bateman it's Great Bateman Great Laura Linney I like ones where I like. I like shows where the husband realizes the waves cheating on him but but kind of holds it for the for the information. And it's just kind of lingering for episodes he knows but she doesn't know or in this case what episode but I just liked everything how they dealt with that then it kind of circles back later ozarks head. It's a really good Star I mean when you're starting a series and you're doing the pilot and all of a sudden the husband's watching a video of his wife having sexist with somebody else like that's That's a wake you up moment. Yeah nothing tops. Billions where you know. Gm as being urinated on. You're okay we got here here. We go okay. We're we're getting right into this. I'm twelve in Ozark. Saga eighteen left got caught up. I caught up next. Podcast for for us. Ozark continues the tradition of. It's impossible to write a likable teenage daughter right. Yeah isn't it. It's just didn't pot like no one's ever able to kind of if the teenage daughters A. B. or C. Character it they always come out unlikable although I do like Charlotte Charlotte will grow on. You know spoiler there and Jacob who is the local running the heroine farm who speaks a dialect. That's different than others. He was one of the soldiers in braveheart. Didn't really feel like fighting. And also the drug dealer trainspotting which kind of blows you away when you realize it. It's one of those shows you especially when you watch too many of them in a row which I did I Probably Watch twelve and twenty four hours where you start thinking. I could run a strip joint. This could this couldn't be that hard right. I I would have improved. I would improve the girls that were dancing like that was he. He's crediting Jason Bateman crediting. The new manager like good job upgrading. The town it's like well. That was a no brainer would have done that. Maybe would made a lot safer maybe the VIP room really laid the smack down and nobody has sex in there but You just think these alternate universe Israeli like could I have run a strip joint? I think I could have could. I have started a small casino on the river. Like I feel like I could have figured that out but you may be thinking these things. I think you'd be trust you to room strip joint that would you know? I don't think I trust house. I'm sure now hassle involved without there's there's other people who have fly. What would you call it the? Bs Review had caught the rigor. It gets just ringers spotify. Your fingers is perfect. We need to talk about it anymore. Well IN MELROSE PLACE THE BAR. That somehow jake buys with fifty thousand which APPS SO. China got the math on that but initial loan shooters. It's called shooters. We'RE GONNA head out shooters. I always thought that was good. Name but ringers. I think would be Man What happened last night. A rough night ended up at ringers. Serta three in the morning got cleaned out. I lost my credit card. Yeah I think that could work with suck. It would suck having to go to ringers to get your debit card. The next day there was there was the sketchiest weird a strip club in exit up from. Espn do you know the one? I'm talking about? Oh Yeah Yeah right so it was known and I went one time long longtime ago and some some people from work went and one of the girls that were with. It was pretty funny. 'cause she called me the next day goes. I can't believe it. You know she. She got a little wild and she was like you know I had a wild night as again. Oh no problem no problem problem. She's like is there any way? You can bring me to the place because I left my car there and my debit card and I have to go in during the day to go get it and I was like as long as I don't have to go in I'll give you a ride. Yeah Yeah there should be a phrase for that. Can you give me your top five? Most board moments you during the Corinthian. I started a book. Oh it's called the better book a basketball nice and I expect you to laugh more. Look you gave me thinks like you thought that was a dick now. It's called Letters to my younger self. Some taking the entire concept. And it's just GonNa be thirty chapters great. Can I read the forward yeah? I'm actually looking people right chapters and then I'm just GonNa Publish how you doing the Richard Deitz. You're getting other people to write a way a minute I built a squat rack. I'm close to Billingham squat rack in my living room. So I move all the furniture around There's no kids running around. Obviously no wife soon have to worry about that So we're just go for it because if this is going for a few months I I could adapt said number two. I've tried to order as much as I can. I have gone back and watch a bunch of games today. I watched game seven of the two thousand thirteen. Nba Finals Heat Spurs. I WanNa talk to you about that. Keep going I want to circle back to two thousand thirteen dollars. 'cause I also watched a lot of that other members of the media those that I'm close with. We're having these side text thread debates about. Is it really great content if you just post everybody else's videos on twitter there's a few people that have built up quite a following that way and it seems like they're universally praised as somebody who drives be creative and likes to acknowledge people's creativity? I think people that just post everybody else's videos for re tweets and follows that it's actually not that creative so that's something we'd be debating and probably wouldn't care much about if we didn't have this much free time and I don't know let's see let me see here. That's the I'm upset. It was one of those texts. We can add you to it. I just don't I don't understand what happens. You see somebody else's great video and then you just save it. And then you put your own caption. Sometimes the same caption word for word. He said and then you're psyched But again if everybody just re tweets it and you get a ton of followers. Then you're you're kind of doing what you're supposed to be doing but I just think it's lame fucking lame. I've tried to do less twitter than ever. That's good not missing a ton twitter's pretty dark red. Now it's it's about as as as bleak as it's been 'cause especially because more people have more time kind of flooding. Yeah you're right now. You're right twitter. The great thing about twitter is that it does kind of eventually. Let everybody know who you really are? If you're on it long enough I go. Oh that's what this person's deal is and sometimes it ends up telling US way more about that person that we want to realize but anyway Lasting is I've been I've been debating hobby stuff. Got a lot of stuff in the shopping. Carts haven't hit check out on any of it yet. I don't know what it's going to be. I don't know if it's instrument. I don't know what you know. Smaller Molars base over here especially since we're opening a gym so I don't. I'm not going to have a ton of rehearsal area so I I don't know so. Par-five is debating what the hobby is going to be. That's likely a purchase in something. I never look at sixty days from now so we were talking before we went on about. There should be an advanced metric. Maybe they could figure this out at the next conference. How different your life is during a quarantine based on what it was like free quarantine and if it's only twenty. Maybe if the cutoff is like forty percent if it's less than forty percent different than it was when we didn't have a quarantine it's time to reevaluate. Thanks we're like we're like I was already alone all the time and never outside and and watching the TV and the only real things that are changing for me is like that one night a week. I'm not joke with my buddies or I'm not like it's harder to grocer-shop thin by the whatever the metric of that it's time to reevaluate things medical hobbies Q. E. R. K. Q. E. R. Yeah exactly if you're a Corinthian you're like that different year. Q ers is either too high or too low. I don't know what 'cause like. Yeah I don't know I don't know what that would mean. Yeah right what is the low? Qe are good. Is it the inverse? This feels directed at me because whatever the key formula is mine's not that different. I've said it the entire time. I mean other than the gym other than that night that I get every few weeks. Now you're out. You're playing hoops. You're doing stuff you come to the office. I was thinking more my dad. 'cause my dad's like this is terrible is just home. I'm like your home anyway. Like like what's really changed. You're not going to sell the government's you don't get to go to. He so he he made the case. He's like look. We went out to dinner a lot. We went to sell two games and I really liked walking the dogs and talking to my neighbors those three things out the window. I'm like all right good case at made them word for it though. I made him sweat it out but yeah the Q. Er His Q. E. R. I feel like it's still like thirty five Steph. Definitely not fifty. I've wondered if you know the positive in this looking back and that people write books years removed from this if they'll argue that everybody needed some kind of resetting so instead of the mental fix yourself resetting and whenever you go to a bookstore you look at like the shelves you go. How many possible help the self health books can be written like? How can there be fifty new self-help books this year? Like who saying Shit that hasn't been said already. And a lot of times to giving other people advice and never being able to execute it on our own but this is all just theoretical but will people argue that this time was this massive resetting that society needed so that we come out of this different like come out of this a little more positive. A little more appreciative I think both those things will happen but I thought that after nine eleven quickly faded away within a year absolutely like it was so cool to be patriotic there for a little while and then it was kind of like all right moving on and yeah we inherently become selfish again but I wonder if there ends up being this resetting where anything is lasting and that that's kind of hard to look. It's it's nearly impossible to predict right now but it is something that. I think about a lot with this. I forget where we started on that. What was your dad? Know to follow up on that. I do think it's weirdly. Made people appreciate their friendships. Like my wife is doing these zoom calls with like six of her friends or they have a glass of wine. They shoot the shit before they used to do like. Oh we gotta get launched and then it would be like every two months. They would their schedules. The line they'd go get lunch now. It's like they're weirdly more more more communicative with one another or or just like in each other's lives because they're bored I my Dad's family. They do families zoom car. Every week doubt like all his brothers and sisters. They weren't doing that before so I do. I do think and we said this last week on the pod that it has caused people to embrace some technologies that maybe they didn't fully understand would be assets for them. You know they even like I look at the Ringer. We use to come over to the podcast with me. Now we're dude on zoom. It's basically the same thing you don't have to be here to do it Wherever to cut these videos and just kind of adapt go so I do. Think there's been a couple of positives out of that I think people appreciate toilet paper more. They definitely appreciate parral in clorox wipes which you still can't fuck it find anywhere I don't know how I got clerks ripe wipes I I got out really peril out send you a tub of those wipes you need him Burell I'm out toilet. Paper was never huge issue solo. Although I did read a fascinating piece toilet paper where it completely changed my mind was like Oh this is the psychological thing they had these psychologists talking about just this mash shopping. Shopping is different things in this other guys like. No He's like you guys are all wrong is you're not going to work. You're not using toilet paper there. You're not going to restaurants. You're not using toilet paper. They like all these different places that you would normally use toilet paper. You're now not using him. So your usage at home is jumped higher usage rate. Yeah so exactly so. It's not that people are buying it. The S are some people. Hoarding buying an uncertain. But there's a reason there's a real mathematical reason that people are buying more toilet paper because they're using far more of it at home than they ever were before because no one's leaving their house I was like. Oh yeah that should have been easier. Figure out pooh-poohed rate All right I wanNA talk about the thousand thirteen finals. And then we're going to do the two thousand draft but Let's take one break. We're all stuck inside right now. Trying to keep ourselves entertained adjust to the new normal while still needing to work out and find different ways to be healthy and stay calm no matter what twitter says when we're stressed or forced to switch up by routines and don't sleep. Well guess what our immune systems weaken and become more prone to getting sick and the best natural way to boost our immune system is through. Yeah great sleep right now. 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Dot Com enter Simmons at checkout to save fifteen percent sleep. Better recover faster. Trains smarter optimize your performance with whoop. You and I both been watching a lot of basketball. I was doing this anyway. Just for the record all the people who are like oh I watched the so and so finally games like this was just what I just like. Do this anyway The two thousand thirteen finals. I had not dove back into in a while and they had a bunch of them I think I'd be TV. I can't remember what day they were. But it's been on and then it was. There was another game those on this weekend and this staggering amount of talent in that finals which. I didn't even really full. It fully realized the time because we didn't know. Colli was gonNA turn into what what happened with Guay but look at finals. Now there might have been hall of famers there right the four San Antonio guys in the four Miami guys in crunch time in game six game seven you might have had eight of ten guys on the court as hall of famers. I don't think I fully realized that at the time I knew I remember I was doing. Tv that year. And I remember game before game. Six did a whole thing that I thought Dunkin was going to reach back and have this one awesome Great Dunkin game. 'cause they're up three two. I thought this he still has it in him. A little shack in two thousand four in game. Four against the trait. He's going to really lead the smackdown one last time and try to grab this title. Because he knows he doesn't want to game seven and I think he had like twenty five in the first half or some crazy thing like that he wore down In the second half but Colli was awesome in game seven Wade was really good in game. Seven Lebron was great. Both Games Parker was immense down the stretch in game. Sakes wasn't getting game seven. It was just so much fun to watch all those guys on the court. What stuck out with you without game. Seven two dramatic things. Lebron was really everything in that third quarter and then every possession was him dictating it and still seeing as much as we appreciate. How gifted physically. He's still is thirty five Even though thirty five it's not the normal thirty five year. Old Athlete is a guy with all of those minutes right and he still has moments with these lakers. Where you're like. I can't believe he's still doing this. But then whenever you force yourself to like junk back five years ago. Oh It's actually harder. Watch the decline in normal progression as opposed to going back and be like. Oh okay wait a minute now. I see what's different here like I remember you talking about Westbrook in that warriors series going. Oh my God like go back and look at Westbrook because I still have moments where I walked. Watch westbrook now ago. He's the best athlete. I think I've ever seen in the game and you're you just have to go back. Oh that's right that's what it's like when it looks like a guy's in his young twenties and here. Lebron was just five years ago and it still is different but every possession was him and every time something good bottled up then he would find somebody else. Baddie a start at five or five from three. He's really you know beyond Lebron's dominance in this and dictating everything that was happening offensive possessions in the Second Half Batty. You argue wins this game. After game six. The closing group was chalmers batty lot of lot of Chalmers. This finals like Like a shocking amount. Exactly it Ray. Allen Played Listen Twenty minutes even scoring game seven on the court there towards the end I'll save the Bosch part for later but Ginobili is a mess. He has three huge turnovers in the last six. And a half minutes of this game and just blowing those possessions one. The ball goes out of his hands out of bounds. Another one he just whips it out of bounds and then on the last possession after Lebron hits what's elbow jumper that's basically for an NBA title. And that's something that's always bothered me the way we look at clutch and it's hard to keep track all this stuff okay. There's tons of things that I forgot it from this game that I watched probably twice before but Lebron hitting that elbow jumper is about as his clutches. You can be without the clock expiring because that's it game seven to win an NBA title. That's the shot and it's never thought of it really isn't unless you're heat fan or like the biggest. Lebron Fan and we just have a hard time. Every giving credit to any of these things aren't in the last. Possession went to me that shots just as clutches. The shot clock expiring in some ways. Maybe even harder in a way. Because you're well. Hey there's a play that still open here and game six. So they're they're about to lose the title heading into the fourth quarter and he plays one of the best nine and ten minutes stretches of his career that he is absolutely every version of a. You know all the different pieces he had him of. Oh He's a little bit of magic out. There's a little bit of Ti Mac in there. There's a little bit of Karl Malone there. There's a little bit of Larry Bird. It's just like the full the full package for nine ten minutes and then you know. He ends up missing the first three when they're down five. Four Spurs are under the basket. The thing ricochets back so fast none of them get the rebound Wade. Tips IT OUT. Come back. Lebron makes the second three but in general him in those two games in that season I feel like that was peak. Lebron that was the twenty. Seven game winning streak. That was the the season when he was. It seemed like conceivable. He might shoot sixty percent the first two months. Remember that when it was like could Lebron shoot sixty percent for a season I decided he was at the peak of his power. One hundred thought of that and game seven you know between that game seven and then the Two Thousand Sixteen game seven game seven in Boston in two thousand sixteen. There's some other ones. It's funny how he eradicated. The whole Lebron is a choke artist thing that started for mostly silly reasons in Oh eight Oh nine and two thousand ten and then and then eleven was when it really kicked in the finals. When he kind of fell apart in the Dallas he did and from that point on was able to kind of flip the narrative. On that yeah. The criticism of Dallas is totally justified. I mean I just. I don't think you have to imagine going through life where you're handed a jersey in years like you're on the red team at nine and then you have to stand the red team for the rest of your life like that's how we handle some of these opinions where you just go. Hat's it's fair to point out that Lebron was underwhelming against Dallas in Dallas. Did a really good job concessionary against him and it went it went for it went further than that though because he he they definitely kind of broke him in some ways in that series where you know even being in the building it was like his brain couldn't totally solve what they were doing all the different ways they were they were building the wall in the middle so he couldn't drive they were fucking with him when he was on defense and just it was like their whole initiative that whole series was how do we knock. Lebron mentally out of this and make him start second guessing himself and he did and I think yeah he. I think it had been the best thing that ever happened to his career because from that finals on he's a different guy so when I look back at the game six ending and and I don't want to spend too much time on this but it just because Lebron had had that turnover that was bad at thirty nine seconds on the quite play the yeah the little later. Yeah like he he was having these plays at the end you go yod but just think like Ginobili gets fouled at twenty eight seconds. He misses that first. Free throw makes the second. They're up ninety four eighty nine. They should have been up ninety. They should have been up six with twenty eight seconds left in that game. Now I know Spurs fans look at it and say well. You know you win that when you're in the back. I don't know that I think it's much your bulls theory which you were the first one. I've ever heard anybody that wants to give Michael Eight Straight. Just because it's took US years off is giving him credit for the two that he missed but then not factoring in that you really think he's going to be able to keep his no. I don't think I I would bet against it even though I would never want to bet against him Jane anything I don't think the spurs come back and win the next year because they constantly as you know this. Their singular focus all year long talking to people that are around them. They didn't just shows the toughness of the entire organization. The makeup those guys is that they were mad. I mean they started game one. The next year mad feeling like Miami got their title and they carried it out and I thought smashed him in the finals there but man who misses that free throw in six and then he had those three turnovers and then after that. Lebron elbow jumper really to win it in game seven they ran a play remain who's GonNa go baseline and get back to Duncan. And he turned it over there too so watch it again to you like man like manages had a. I remember tough. Stretch disperse where shooting on the basket where are set was in the fourth quarter game six and seven and I think they're down to like maybe forty seconds left something like that year in the in two thousand thirteen and Dunkin had a little bunny. He had like a little five footer with a on them at a shot that he's made ten thousand times any like back rimmed that and it spun out and then Miami had the ball they had the momentum and I remember Dunkin going back and I think somebody called a time out Dunkin just like slammed the floor and was like really just so pass but he he knew like that was the moment like that game was a lot closer. I'm glad you watched it 'cause I was that game was a lot closer to a lot. More exciting than people remember ever remembers that series for the reaction shot game. Seven is a really good game. It's really well. Played those teams. You know the Spurs broke them. The next the next year you go back and look at At the fourteen finals those last three games they were up the Spurs. Were up twenty plus. I think they won by like nineteen nineteen or more each game like they killed by him that series they wipe them out. They'd send them home. And they ruined the Lebron Dynasty. That was it he left so I am a loss game. One a fourteen by fifteen. They won game two by two so they split in San Antonio then they come home to Miami and lose two straight by nineteen twenty one and then game. Five is a seventeen point loss. And what San Antonio did. I think it was kind of an early three point. Barrage preview of what? We're GONNA start seeing yet. It just felt like there are stretches. Those guys couldn't miss and when I watched the game seven. Thirteen thing like today you know. Colli was not a major part of the offense he was an afterthought and isn't wrong like he still was somebody where you're going. I don't know what he's going to be so you can't go back and be like Oh you need to get the ball more. But he had these moments going. Hey there's a lot of times or no one can do anything with the sky offensive rebounds around the glass always in the right place hitting the big three. He did back rim one. I think he had sixteen boards in game seven. But if you if you're watching what Miami was doing enough defensively they're just completely leaving them alone he's they were packing in the middle trying to double team people and whoever was defending Hawaii quads. Just five feet by himself you know and I think by the next year he could shoot threes. And you can do that anymore. But that you're you could. Yeah that's right because it was kind of this. Wait a minute Kawai this guy. Who's this really Nice player? You'd love to have him on your team. Raimi's start draining threes. Like what what's going on here. And he's still so young but the other thing that happened in In thirteen was parker was hurt and Enga- even he was always like why is he playing? I think he might have even sat out. One of those final games and then game six. He was the guy that Miami couldn't stop. That was why chalmers Had to play so much. Stay none of the other guys. We're going to Duane wasn't going to defend Parker But in game seven he sucked he sucked because he was hurt in game in two thousand fourteen. Those guys were healthy. It was different story but the Parker. The Parker injury was the secret factor. That two thousand thirteen years. This is also that thirteen stretch for for Miami where I know people have a hard time with my Bosch position. But I know he's GonNa make the hall of fame Because it's it's the basketball hall of fame and you look at the Eastern Conference finals against the Pacers. He played thirty plus minutes in that series in the Games. Four five six hundred seventy scored seven seven five nine and then in this game seven. We're talking about now. In the win against Spurs he played twenty seven twenty eight minutes. He had zero points and he did a really good job. with Duncan Duncan. Made some tough shots on it. Because it's Tim Dunkin but you could see other times. Dunkin we'll get frustrated by Bausch and the fact that Bosh could hang there defensively. All of those things are positive A and I understand what that is Bosch but zero points in a game seven of the NBA finals and no-one ever says he just has a lot of games. Rita's score at all in in big playoff spots and we can talk about weight and the broad and all those things and other shots were therefore him. I mean one six three seven one eight three thirteen zero five I I just think sometimes bosh because he was on that team in the team's success. There's just I don't know what I'm trying to say here. I guess I've just like Boston is not a superstar. He was always. He was always one of those guys. That was overqualified for the spot. He was in definitely so I look back game. Seven against the South Dakota two thousand twelve when he made I think the big shots in the fourth quarter Ebay two or three like monster threes that enabled him oppo away. He's eight for ten in that game. He made three threes. And I think too were in the last quarter nineteen and eight but I thought he was awesome in that game. Like I thought. It's kind of a thankless role to be the third guy. It's not they're never going to be like. Oh man we gotta get Chris Touch. Let's get him in. Let's with get Chris more involved. Because you're just you're not gonNA do that So he almost had to like be the Draymond of that team and I felt like he was a little bit him and he was fine with it but I do think before. He had his Ailment where his career basically gets derailed. I think there would have been really fun. Stretch for him once. Lebron those guys laughed when Houston was trying to get him. He ends up going back to Miami and it was going to be his team. I think he would have been back to being like a twenty five an eleven guy again and we just never had put it. He put a big numbers At you know we know what the Toronto numbers are but yeah there were right as I said before. I mean there's no playoff moment for Bausch and Toronto other than thirty nine and a loss in game four against the magic in his second year in the second year in the playoffs but I also thought it was when I went back and looked at. I go wait a minute. Spoelstra played him twenty seven minutes. Oh that's right. It was false yet five fouls so he played only twenty seven minutes in that game but just didn't score. I mean this is. This is not. It's not even a knock on him. I just I just think sometimes bosh depends if your heat fan. You think he's a superstar if you're not maybe forgot and if you're me you'd think moments where you forgot he was out there and you know. We're talking superstar hall of fame. I just think that we should be a little bit more. People were surprised is the right word or what but people were surprised. When we were both saying Antoine Jamison was going to be a hall of Famer and I was saying it like he should be a hall of Famer. I just think he's GonNa get in because twenty thousand points is getting hall of fame. I think the standards are low. They're like they are. That's that's always my whenever anybody's like. Hey Do you think I don't even? I don't even need you to finish the sentence us go. Yeah probably really time. John Rich made it. Did he deserve it. He's averaged twenty points for a few years. He was a good forward. He was never like a top ten guy in the league and then he coached to To rockets title team so I guess the totality that but like at some point now so does I don't know I just don't know what the line is anymore. I can't wait for you to get in it's going to be unbelievable would of though. Thou Kurt Gowdy thing. Yeah I fifty now. I'm Kinda surprised you haven't gotten it. It'll be after I'm dead the bag. I wish to give it to him and he won't be here. Yeah if you get really sick they'll give it to you then if you die you'll definitely get it but they will want you to get it now. Let's do it the two thousand redrafts. We're in take a quick break. Hey It's Bill Simmons. I just wanted to make listen to podcasts on spotify. Here's how you do it. I search for your favorite podcasts. On spotify Zap they have elaborate over seven hundred fifty thousand pods at this point. So let's say you're searching for the watchable Dave Chang show or the ringer. Nba show once you find them. 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Listen podcast on spotify back two years all right so we've been redrafting. How about the fact that we didn't realize we should be calling. The redraft. Ables took took a reader last week to to send an email being like hey. Why aren't you calling? These draftable is like I don't know so we've done ninety six ninety seven ninety eight ninety nine One was I ordered that. Yeah we're calling draftable xlt now just better. I thought yeah I duNNo. I thought that that was what it was. But I guess editor for the Guy. Yeah so You can find all the old ones the easiest way to find him on the book a basketball pot or you can search for Sylla's archive for can we did this one. That's two thousand. The real reason we wanted to start this whole redraft ables thing was just to do the two thousand draft. This is our favorite draft. It is I wrote once that the best thing anyone ever said about this draft was well. At least nobody ever killed someone from this draft. I might be the most praise you could go The the the stats are incredible. Only five guys at a fifty eight potentially could have been like a real important started a playoff team. There were seven lottery. Whiffs STROM SWIFT. Was the number two pick we had a. Priscilla Dueling Maluso Thomas Alexander cleaves collier run for six straight picks from nine to fifteen. We had the seventeenth through twenty third picks for better than picks two through fourteen. We had the poor clippers who had three ten eighteen and it turned out to be the worst draft ever so they're rebuilding thing there and there's more facts we'll get into but this draft was bad in the moment and there are lots of reasons for it Which we've talked about another pods. Where the one and done and the high scores and all that it was just depleting depleting the Possible draft assets sometimes drive class. You just bad luck that it ebbs and flows depending on the air but we do it that college sailing because there was a lousy college year. Can you name the four best guys in the two thousand National Championship Title Game? is that Mateen cleaves yet. There's one mope e yeah do remember who played they play Florida Mike Miller Andrew. Clark you don has them eighteen years old Azlam Dammit you are big Teddy dupay guy back then I love Teddy dupay still holding out. Hope keep your fingers crossed but that was used them the right way cleave sprains his ankle in the second half and still ends up being the MVP of the final four but it was the first bad college basketball tournament we'd ever had. It was up until through ninety nine. It delivered the goods year after year. Net years like what's going on. It was like one of those summer movie seasons. Where there's just no good movies are like what's going on. We're the movies so good for is though by the way it felt like is oh needed something there to then be. I. I just think the world is. Oh so I wanted like whenever you were getting into arguments about which college coaches you'd like us it's fascinating the basketball world like how many people think some of the biggest name coaches at the biggest name programs have had these unbelievable careers they think. They're absolutely terrible. In Game Coaches Roger Izzo would be the guy that gets all that respect it just is owes. The whole consumption of Izzo would have been dramatically different heading apple that went off so so this draft. The Nets had the first pick Vancouver Second Clippers Third Chicago fourth. Our top forward Kenyon Martin Strauss with Darius Miles Marcus fizer Orlando Atlanta Chicago. Cleveland next for Mike Miller Dhamar Johnson. Chris MIHM JAMAL CRAWFORD. Then we finish it out with nine through fourteen. Houston ORLANDO BOSTON. Dallas Orlando Again Detroit Joe Priscilla Kion Jerome Musso Yvonne. Thomas Courtney Alexander Mateen cleaves Jason. Jason Collier Fifteen It was weird when it was happening there. Who's not a lot of excitement? There was enough of a dearth of prospects that dairy smiles. All the sudden became super exciting. He was from Saint Louis. There was some cagey stuff with them. Where it's like. This could be another cagey but if you actually watch the clips of him in high school. There's no resemblance the cagey at all. He's basically a six foot eleven. Jump shooting small forward to catch shoot but good athlete. Fund carried himself assert way but I I don't know how the K. G. things started and and just a mess all the way around when you look at when you look at just the first round which is out. I just need to clean up something here. I was thinking of Donell Harvey Florida. Declerk is still on my mind because the ninety six draft that we did so to Clark had declared years earlier so I just want to make sure I cleaned that up. Darius is big for me because he was supposed to be going to Saint Johns and Saint John's was still pretty relevant and in our tested. Just been there. Eric Barclays in this draft to Eric Barclay could could score but he like a lot of guys which is another big time scoring undersized guard. That never gets sniff the NBA After the first couple of years so miles was supposedly going but right like I went back and watched the beginning of this draft on Youtube. It was a t and t broadcast which I do want to bring up with you later and after Kenyon Martin goes one. It's we're still in this world which you wouldn't have thought of where they're like man five straight underclassmen in areas miles. You know and you're just like Oh that's right. It was still weird and people be complaining like addict by Towel. Come on and be like how come you're not taking mateen cleaves. Like I remember him. Losing his mind that Mateen cleaves didn't go ir after. It had this epic run. Because that's Bitel what he does. He get Super Mad that the older kids he's just ad nauseam and you're just like well. That's honesty Mateen cleaves went higher than he should've unit of address. Because it just people. Kinda KINDA see teen cleaves ago yeah. I don't really think he's a good pro. Even though this whole class was so bad so that was kind of the thing that going back and watching the Youtube Concept. The draft picks in the analysis. Where even though it's two thousand which yes? It's twenty years ago but it doesn't feel that long ago. It still felt like this uncharted world of look at them. Taken all these underclassmen so some facts. Kenyon Martin Macaroni. The only guys who earned more than one hundred million in this draft only four cracked fifty win career shares Turkoglu Mike Miller make Jamal Crawford. Only five played twenty thousand career minutes which is like normally that. Number's double figures. There were only three all stars from this draught. Michael Read Possible. Shibam glor- at this is even better than only three. All Stars only sixty one combined all-star minutes from this draught ever this trump hours fifty one minutes of the All Star game. This is being dirty. That's like wait a minute. Only three three all star selections for an entire class ever not three guys were all stars three selections and then our Research Department decided to be even meaner with that minute. Total is Zack. No of getting him in a second. I have two more for for me. Eleven of the first fifteen picks played less than twelve thousand career minutes. Eleven of the First Fifteen Six said the first fifteen picks played fewer than three hundred fifty games. So now ZAC cramp from the ringer. He had a couple of extras here. We call the Zack's Michael read the only person who made it all. Nba team he made on NBA team. this is the only time in in recent draft history like in the monitor the draft. Where only one person from a draft made it on. Ba team the players That we mentioned out only three all stars the second lowest total from the latter era for players for draft making the. All Star team was thirteen. Does this say that again? So the so the second lowest in the lottery era where we're going back to eighty five here. Yeah is thirteen. All-stars Thirteen All Star Games. Thirteen All Star Games. Thirteen All Star Games. This one had three games. Three anything else is the only draft ever in the ladder without multi all-stars. There was that a single guy who made more than what all star team and then An average of thirteen point seven career wins shares the fewest for any draft in the latter. So it's just a train wreck all the way through and through. Fortunately there's a lot of comedy we had. Reggie theus interviewed algae Baylor and described them. After as quote a veteran of the lottery process. He said this with a straight face like this is a couple of it at asset. He's a veteran of the lottery process. You know that means you suck as GM when you're a veteran the ladder process so that happened. That's the nicest way to see suck as a GM phasing veteran that's like when they call Like some local radio hosts like veteran veteran local. So and so. Who's it and be just means you've bounced around locally and worth a bunch of states so we had. We had an all stiff draft. That trade of Joel Priscilla Jason Collar Future Number one that happened we had a green room. Watch with somebody who didn't even end up being good jake tests colitis. Who I think you were in on a Lotta. Data's sack elitists yeah. He felt at twenty-five because people here worried about his contract. Yeah they should be worried about his talent. We had We had a a surprising moment. In the clippers took miles third. Nobody saw that coming and he came at. It took him forever. Come out he had a cream colored suit on put. Blue Clipper sat on it. And he did he. He legitimately hugs stern in a way. That in two thousand was not something we saw at the draft Syrup Hamilton and hugs. Turn the year before. This one was almost genitals to generals. Now we see like a Dallas hugging everybody but normally you just shook hands maybe as shoulder tap miles went in for like a real hug like he was catching up with an uncle at Thanksgiving or something. So that made it first. And then after that. Charles Barkley was doing this draft and he just went nuts on the clippers and this was right after he had retired. We were getting. Oh Barclay be the next baton for these drafts Barkley said. I don't think the clippers are good environment from ouster terrible organization. I hope he gets out of there. The clippers are one of the problems in Sports. Perfect example of teed that let's all their good players go over here. They're fans of bad product. It just like went in on them and it was the first exciting draft announcing moment in the history of of the draft where somebody actually going in We also had. Oh my moment for my dad. It did did the draft our that year The Bulls took somebody named Alibegovic. Yeah Number Twenty Four. At this point we had the sporting news where they would put their head like mock drafts at this point in the Sporting News. And my dad look down and he said he's not on my list and just see more confused than anything Dalibor garbage just. It was like where did this guy. So yeah lot of I. Three years of the Bulls three years. We're going to redraft so each one. Rank in the guys from superstars of five quality. Starter is a one all stars to star. This is the only draft. Were probably ever GonNa do where there's no to guys I think would you? Would you rate? You don't have to start. Yeah I think Kenyon Martin where I would rate him as a quality starter. I wouldn't trade him as an all-star would you you mean perennial all star. Just like all star was there an all-star this draft the dancers. No Michael Read had a really nice stretch. He did get going but I know once we get to him in that whole thing because he was a second rounder and I think if you look at the the cumulative stats the analytics You Know He. He holds up well compared to all these other guys so we can either do the redraft or whatever but I would like to just before we do that. I want to ask you because you got to do the draft SPN. And as I've said it two thousand you go back and you look at the production it's TNT be saying the same stuff it was espn. Because I don't really care we know Ernie's a Glue Guy Backbone keeps the thing you know going in the right direction but she had John Thompson up there. Who didn't know anything about anybody? Huby who didn't know anything and then they brought by Rick Majerus for like Comic Relief and he actually it just fascinating that even in two thousand we would have the NBA draft on television. And you wouldn't really have anybody that you knew was putting in the time and doing the scouting reports and the NBA hadn't really had. I mean this is even pre chat Ford being on the radar. Now we have a bunch of different guys that are locked into kind of that draft thing. But I don't know what I want like I go back and watch it like Maderas said at one point. No huby said this. Choubey said that that our test is better as a two guard struggles small forward and then he turned one of those small forwards in the League When they were talking about like rosters and how it and people freaking out about Christmas. I'm not going to the Bulls because the bulls needed size. And so what? The guy's doing 'cause they weren't putting any time into it. You could just tell that they're like all right the Bulls don't have a center. They have Elton brand. Or they gotta take Chris Mihm and Thompson would say oh. I saw this kid play and he'd be like Oh. Wow John Thompson Sam playing high school and then follow it up with like really no depth to it so it was a bunch of people on the desk for this really important night that you and I probably take too seriously and you go. That's amazing that you can have a TV product. This isn't like it's nineteen seventy eight and two thousand and nobody. They don't have anybody there that actually like put in real data and real scattered reports and I'm thinking that just because nobody thought and wanted that did we just want big names. 'cause I remember even. Espn like we have. Steven aid. Have Mark Jackson Van Gundy? None of those guys were watching any of the stuff and up on synergy or second spectrum breaking all. It's like I remember Stephen. A there was a pick he goes live. He's like I've never seen the brother play. But I hate this pick and I was like what the fuck so I don't know what I want right like. What is it that I want? Because sometimes it's up. I want maybe a boring television product and you got to do it and I'm sure there were times where you felt like. Hey we're doing the wrong thing we should be doing this and the TV guide probably telling you you're wrong right. I feel like everybody has to have a role I thought we did a good job at the draft but we everybody had a role. Bill was the college guy which is sorely missing from the two thousand draft. Talk has talked about because John. Thomson's not GonNa say anything and you. I don't even think he was in college anymore. At that point but Bilas the guy who could take over by them Gut Bilas was the guy who had seen all these guys play and then was crunching tape on them and doing the things so you could trust him Jalen. I think at least the first year was still on the college show so he was. At least seeing these guys person had a feel for them but could talk more about You know like what's it like. What your college versus. What you could blossom into and then my thing was more trying to figure out what the teams were doing. You know and that stuff where you really need somebody out there. Who's like Oh. They're doing this because they're actually say they have these guys eligible for free agency and they've got abroad and you just got to know all the moving chess pieces and that's not something you can study you have to either know it or you don't know it And now it's something we're even like when Van Gundy was on thank God he's like he doesn't know what the CAP situation and she stupid shit like that. You kind of have to know that stuff on the fly because there's trades to infiltrate happens. You have to go all right. Well why they do that. We'll what what's the purpose of this and and almost like react. We would on a podcast. So it's a night that has a lot of moving pieces and if you have people that aren't totally versed on at least whatever their specialty is supposed to be. It's going to go really badly but nobody can. Nobody cared in two thousand though. This wasn't like a huge event back then but I've seen ESPN lineups. Were in. I understand like I think TV executives. They err on the side of names where they go. Let's put our biggest stars on these shows and we'll figure it out but I really think if you're going to have a draft on and it's GonNa be five hours of this stuff like the stick in the Zang's after a while. Look if you don't know anything about the players I got two point. Stop watching on. Tv I mean I did six years for radio and I said the only way I'm doing is an analyst. I'm not going to host it. And they wouldn't. They wouldn't even let me on the radio one for a bunch of years and then after like the first year they go. Can you come back next year and House again and then you know a couple of years? I did did Scott after the fact which is Great. I mean I couldn't believe it like I was after the draft is done. I'm on sportscenter. Impelled breaking the whole thing down and it was You know because they were pretty much nonstop on it and I I just watching in two thousand and this was considered good and that would get destroyed if it happened now if somebody said. Hey let's just put a bunch of NBA cronies on and will wing. It I really like doing it shocking. Thing about it that hated was how fast picks Kim because his five minutes to impacts so the guy walks out he shakes hands then he has the interview with whoever. And that's like three and a half minutes. Bilas is doing his whole breakdown. That's prepackaged thing and then you basically have like a minute to react before the next pick. Which isn't you know you're talking like lottery. Picks like when Cleveland took Anthony Bennett that we could. We could talk about that for fifteen minutes. But it's like all right on to the next one number two and it's like Cleveland just took a guy who if they didn't take them there might have fallen out of the top ten like we should be talking about this so I wish it was ted. I personally think the lottery should own night and I would make it. Fourteen picks that's it Fifteen minutes between picks or twelve minutes picks. Let's really go into this and make it like a dramatic night and then do the rest of it later but I think I'm the only one who would probably want that. I would like it but we're wrong. We know wrong on this because they wanted to move and they wanna get everything done one at all that stuff but it should at least be for the lottery. It should be ten minutes between packs are eight minutes or something. You should get more. 'cause it's you know you've got so many different people on it you'd have now that is part of it. Who really is the most important thing? Because he knows all the moving pieces and stuff but when you don't have the news you need a new guy you need somebody who's seen them play and then the other thing that's tough and this is where Bilas role is really challenging despite what an authority is on the college game comparison to most of the people that he's sitting on the set with over the years when I've watched on. Espn is that. It's really tough to go up there and just let me. I'll just pick Lauri markkanen right. You know because I actually think Lauri Markkanen could be okay setback a bit this year. But let's say Lauri Markkanen stake in seventh and bill goes this guy sucks. Total staff fraud can't can't dribble can't shoot. That's you can't really do that. Even though that would be the best it would be awesome if somebody just decided. Hey that's who I'm going to be on one of these draft shows. Nfl or NBA. You don't have to say sucks necessarily but everything is spun into a positive because there's this very delicate thing of not wanting to ruin a kid's night well now is the big thing for Jalen especially because you could hear the people in the arena could hear us at least one of the years But JALEN was I. This is the best night of this kid's life. I'm not gonNA trash the pick. I'm just not going to do it so I was in the spot whereas like all right there's GonNa be some bad picks and we're GONNA have to like dance around. You Know Oh man. Why'd they do that? But you can't guys whole families watching so it's definitely delicate balance ballots. True true or false. Did you feel more comfortable? Trashing a euro pick just because the language barrier. Now I I loved it I I gotTa Say. I've is most fun I've had on TV. Where the drafts? I really had a good time because I was such a fan of what was happening to. It was it felt pretty natural to just be like sitting with two other guys that are hosted that they're doing just be like. Oh what did you think that pick? Well here's what I thought. And he's Kinda goes really great. I enjoyed you say it was one of those moments the success where you have this little moment where you kind of look around and go like Holy Shit. I'm actually GONNA do this because it goes away successful you are you know no that one because I had done the draft. Diaries for really from ninety seven to two thousand twelve and then all of a sudden on there but the first of all we did was stern's draft. It was his last one so I saw I remember. I saw him before the draft and he just gave me we. It was a hand shaped he gave me. That look like the same way. Somebody's dad would look at them when you're about to take their daughter out to the prom or something just kind of like don't fuck me on. This was one of those looks at And it was. It was hilarious was his last one and he was like milk in the crowd and waving waving them to boo him. More and all that stuff is pretty funny. If people don't know this too that stern and it's it's through the NBA media thing but if you're on the air covering any kind of NBA product. You have to fill out this form and be approved by the League so when I did a couple Celtics Games. I had to fill out to stuff. And they're like you're fine and then I remember when I was trying to get on the draft show for radio before I was even allowed on it. Because I'd still at Bennett. Espn since Oh six. And I was like. Hey Look I go to Portsmouth I go to Orlando and then I was hosting the combine In Chicago which I did for five years I can I. Can I get onto this thing and I remember you know again? Just a lie and they're like well you know there's some people in the NBA really don't like you and so we can't get you approved to be part of an MBA broadcast product. And I was like really knowing me. I call up somebody in the NBA. That week. I go hey you guys have a problem with me over there. He's like that's a hundred percent. Not True is even if you so. If we don't like people like you you're not an asshole you care your voice for the NBA type of thing. You're one of those guys that obviously loves this league to like whoever told you that you're not on the broadcast because we have a problem with you straight up. Lie to your face and I was like awesome. We're GONNA do the redraft. Do you like when I take these moments to. Kinda do a little therapy session on something that went wrong now because I think I think we both loved the draft and we got to be there the for a couple of times and work. It was still it was awesome. Xausa a loved it. I think the two thousand thirteen draft would be a great documentary. It's any Bennett was suppo- plus you. I think that was the first draft. When woes was just tweeting the picks before Espn was that. I remember going on my phone and just seeing who the next pick was a second fee. It was either that you're fourteen one of the two I did. He just had all the picks before they were coming out the stage and he just was completely upending it. Do you remember when Jeff Goodman at one point one year he had somebody in the pipeline who is just giving them the pick right and that was crazy. 'cause then Jeff Goodman was tweeting out every pick not as breaking news but like hey this is officially the pick and he just had it all night long because somebody he had a guy so the nets had the first pick in two thousand they took Kenyon Martin in Cincinnati. Do you want the first pick of the second pick? But he want to go one or two. I'll go one all right so we'll Kenya Mart and go first again at our redraft ables yes or now okay There is a case against him. Analytically here if you WANNA go for you know. He's he's behind guys if you want to go win. Shares that kind of stuff There's a couple people behind him. He was older coming in. And I would say as much as I I. I've always had this thought. If you're going to be really really good. Maybe not just great tear but below that it really really good. You're probably going to figure it out no matter what the fit but Martin and Richard Jefferson going to play with Jason. Kidd is the best thing that could have ever happened to him. It really was and I think Martin what he gave you even as a notch. Like I'm probably GonNa go with him versus reds health. So I'm still GonNa Take Martin Number One even though there are strong arguments with like two or three other names. I just I just like the whole Kenyon Martin thing even though it was probably a little underwhelming for an overall number one pick and offensively he was a non factor for a good chunk of the end of his career so I think he was a better asset Michael Read. When they're both healthy he also had a knee injury. He had the microfracture surgery. Michael read blew out his ACL during the OA denied Weiss. Yeah so here's the case for K. Mart and I agree with you. I thought he should've been. I picked second best player in two finals teams. I think that matters Ruined Antoine Walker career. He really did. And I coincidentally I wrote an airplane to Chicago with him. Just randomly sit next to him in mid-february and didn't talk to him the whole time because I hate talking to people who get talked to all the time but then he kind of was looking. He was signed me near the end. And then here's a hey man you bill and so we started talking and I was like broke my heart and Oh to like I thought we had guys I went to those games as you just destroyed Antoine and he was saying when he went into the NBA. He started talking about it. We're landing and he's like when the NBA. Anton was an all star in the east. And I was like I gotta I gotTa beat that guy. That's going to be the guy that I'm just going to be better than because if I'm better than him than on the All star in the east and if you go back and watch those series like he he just kills Antoine. Couldn't figure out what to do against him. His oath three and four in the playoffs. They made the finals no three and have a really good series against the Pistons. No four they lose. He was nineteen and ten solid. Good really above average defensive player that I thought like not like a defensive Puerto Year but definitely like an all defense kind of forward any of the bigs any of the bigs. They could play bigger than they were and then also hang. Athletically with ended up primer stuff. It just allows you to do stuff I mean. That's why I've mentioned how much I always loved the Piston structure of of switching guys. But you know when you can switch and not give up stuff. That's that's what Kenyon was doing on top of running game. I gotta be honest. I really enjoyed his game. He got signing traded to Denver in two thousand four and I forgot SEUSS's July fifteenth two thousand four Denver. It's three first round. Picks they end up giving up. Two of them were lottery protected. The one the Denver picked that was in there actually was like very lightly protected the pick. Senator Being Joey. Graham Rinaldo Bachman Marcus Williams. But you know he made one hundred thirteen million he had real value. He was also on that Denver team. No nine he wasn't one of the best repairs at that point. That almost made the finals pretty good career. Like you definitely can't call him a bus like he made. A lot of money had had some good moments so I thought that was good pick. I had Michael Read Second. I just finished with one thing though. I'm sorry yeah I know it's annoying but I remember you know. I love tough guys. I love the real tough guys as opposed to the fake guys that do stuff and when I asked Net Sky I go you play with with Kenyan right and I go. What's the story there? But like no no. He's all the way real. Do he goes. He actually like guys. Were fucking scared of him. Straight up Anton was and I'm like yeah but this is his own teammates. How about you guys? Were scared of him. Like yeah like if you would get into it and you were fucking with them in practice like he he do this thing. You'd better get my name out your mother Fucker. Mouth in like guys would be like Whoa. We're supposed to be on the same team here so I love hearing stuff like that though. 'cause that means you know that that somebody who's not gonNA wilt so there's a cut. I like this conversation. There's a couple of guys. Oakley was obviously the the captain of this team. But there's some guys over the years and you talked to anybody from that air and they're like the difference between the tough guys in the game but the actual elect don't fuck with that guy. Guys Stackhouse was another like that. Yeah I'd heard that too. I very set years. Yes that there's famous stackhouse stories him punching out Kirk Snyder after a game and shit like that Tony Allen I was like that where it's like. Yeah don't don't actually fuck with Tony out like you can try. Talk Trash on the court Don't actually fuck with them because he'll go there and I think. Yeah Zach Randolph Zach. Randolph is another one. Yeah don't you have a little fun? Do little trash talk but don't go too far But Yeah Kenyon was legit. He definitely was like that. All right. My second pick in this would be for Vancouver's picking the spot poor Vancouver just getting slaughtered in these drafts not enough bring a team back to Vancouver supporters the rest of the Sonics degree. Yeah I think we have Seattle Vancouver would be my top two picks for TAB. Nba teams again for you. Actually think they should have a team again. Yeah I was kind of. I think they got hosed. I think they've got to. I don't understand why people would you know. Look there's there's always gonna be this Canadian thing that some guys down here rather live in Vancouver than a lot of cities midkiff. Michael Red is my second pick. He from two thousand four through two thousand eight Four Seasons. He twenty four game. I didn't realize it was that money. forty five percent field goal thirty seven percent from three. He was one of those old school Old School guys. From if you just put them forward fifteen years probably would have had a much more fun. Career probably taking eight or nine threes third team on a and then When he tore his knee again and feel it. Oh nineties and it was over but he was the guy. Milwaukee was very good in the mid two thousands. I don't think anybody was in more fake trades in him. I know I personally threw him into about one hundred but it was always one of those. Oh you know if they could package Bubba Ness and get Michael Read. That could be the missing piece and he was in that group for three or four years. I like this game too. That he was good So that's my second pick. Now you're up on the clock three. I'll be interested to see what you do here. I think there's like a no brainer number three pick. I don't know if I read blew out his his. Acl AND MC L. in the same left knee twice. Yeah and you're right. He has that structure. You go man. He went off and then when it was over it was absolutely over. But he'd signed that. You've got a six year extension back then and that was the first year we're Lebron. I was going back and look in two thousand five free agency stuff and after free agency they got Larry Hughes Donyell Marshall when they wanted read they wanted Joe Johnson that he was talking about trying to recruit bosh out of there which was going to be way too early. Unless you're going to try to tell him to force a trade in bully him but Yeah People Thought Michael. Read was GonNa go there because he went to. Yeah that's right. They thought he was going to go there. But remember the raises were bigger incrementally year to year than they are now they used to make more of an incentive for you to stay home with the longer in the better raises and read was like look. I'm going to stay here. But that team you're right like they. They had forty two wins because it took for a while to get red started was really his fourth year when he was like. Whoa this guy's awesome and then the team never won more than forty two games. Okay I guess I just wanted to use my free agency notes there because I wrote them down. Sorry I third pick is obvious now. There's there's two names given given. Who's on your board? Let's hear it? Well it's Miller a Turkey blue. Okay and Miller is another guy when you go back. Read wasn't as surprising. There's some Miller stretches where you go man he. He lit up a little bit and the second leg of his career. Kind of like our Ray Allen Allen Iverson thing but I actually think I like peak Turkoglu better than Miller so Turkoglu. Okay make the case. Well if I have to start with fifteen years I love that he went to Sacramento. People were Kinda like at pages in his way. It wasn't it was just like why because he's another tall white guy that's not from the states. It took a while but from Oh four oh five till two thousand Tan and what he did and how fit into that Orlando team. I thought he had moments during those Orlando runs. Were Turku like like an incredibly talented scary guy. I know he floats. I know is rebounding. Numbers are pretty You know they're just not as good as you'd wanted to be but he actually became like a pretty good playmaker there for Orlando there towards the end. I know the end. Was You know by the time? He's back in Orlando thirty three clippers last couple of years. It's Kinda over a stint with Phoenix. But this is more of a talent thing where I think the peak version of Turku was somebody who could give me a tougher bucket than Miller and I think is another one that ten years later. You'd be running a lot of the stuff like they were doing anyway. In these playoff games for For Orlando which we did one of them on the basketball we did game for the o nine Lakers were. They're coming out setting the screen spread in the floor for him and he was pretty crafty. I I don't totally understand why Sacramento couldn't figure out how to use him and then he goes to San Antonio for the Oh three or four season where they lose basically on that Fisher shot. I think they would have won the title that year and they couldn't really figure it out either and it wasn't until he got to Orlando that he got unleashed as guy who's like I'm going to score sixty in a game. I'm GonNa make almost forty percent of my threes. I don't really need the ball the time but in crunch time you can kind of go to me and I'm weird. They reliable I don't understand why Sacramento couldn't figure out how to play him in page together. You would have thought like great. Put both of them out there. See Webley let's go. Would you trade them for Brad Miller for that? That was that was very strange. Can I read you the names of Ron in the trade? Yeah all right because I was. Yeah perfect that's exactly what I was going to do right now. Because there's some awesome names in this. So it's a three teamer Indiana Sacramento and San Antonio and the only thing we know for sure is that Indiana's just gonNA end up with white guys like what. However this plays out there getting white guys in the trade so Indiana Trades Brad Miller to Sacramento and they trade Ron Mercer to the Spurs Turkey Turkoglu also goes to the Spurs Sacramento Trade Scott Power to Indiana and San Antonio Trades. Danny Ferry to Indiana. It's it's a double Caucasian food for the Pacers. And and Turku is by far the best guy in that trade that I did. Enjoy that one. Brad Miller Susan on the Kings but It seemed like a heist. I remember writing this at the time. What a heist. For the spurs like really excited see Turk Lewin the spurs never. Really happened was until the magic that he kind of found his his place. The magic contract though was at the time that was. I bet you could go back and look at this. You're like what are the magic doing like they're giving Turkoglu this much money but only at O. Four zero five. We're talking him. Being Twenty five years old and the reason I mentioned the pacers getting rid of Brad Miller. And you're talking about like Brad Miller was so white. He counted his two white guy. So that's why the ferry and Pollard. Back right anybody. That packs dip in the fourth quarter of a game. We need at least two white guys to make up for his whiteness would have been fun. That Brad Miller in the our test bailer though I've felt cheated out of that I'm taking a Mike Miller with the fourth pick so Kenyon Martin one micro to Turku three. Mike Miller four Mike Bill or third on my board. I couldn't be happier now. Forty one percent three point shooter career career. I mean that's been a year that included the year five years when his luggage at the end of his career and still finished over. Forty percent Oh five through eight Memphis Johnson. Pretty SNEAKY GOOD MEMPHIS teams. Fifteen five and five forty eight forty to seventy eight percent splits forty two percent from three that whole stretch plane a Lotta minutes game. Five two thousand twelve finals. Seven for eight from three twenty three points you mentioned are Bada. Had that huge game seven in two thousand thirteen. Noord did the same thing in game five and that was one of the series that it was a four one finals. The consensus now is that. Oh Yeah Miami one in five. They had it the whole way. Those first four games all came down to like one or two plays and even in game five. I didn't feel like that series was done. Miller came out. Shot the lights out Had THAT NOT HAPPENED. They would have gone back to okay. See FOR GAME. Six and seven so is was it a must win. Every finals game is a must win but There's a scenario where you know. Drink hot in that game five and maybe it goes back to okay see now. The crowds go nuts. Who knows Lebron had at one entitled yet? There's different variables Miller shut it. All down he was awesome in that game. Probably might the jump shot. I was the most jealous of just personally like if you could have bought. Somebody's jump shot on ebay. I think I think I would have taken Mike Miller. Who would you take in? Ray Yes so razi other choice there. I really jump shot. I'm but Miller Miller is a good pick and was it close for you on on Turkoglu or Miller or were you like adamant. 'cause I was I was split going into it. I always I was like them and I just thought he was in weird situations for most of his career that If you Kinda just did his career ten times I think there's these universes where you know there's times when it could have been awesome for him You look at all the teams that could have drafted a in this draft where it goes jersey. Vancouver CLIPPERS CHICAGO ORLANDO Atlanta Chicago again. Cleveland I mean all those teams sucked for years. Any situation he was going to is going to be a bad situation I. It's a shame that he couldn't have just gone to a team that was good but for one year ended up in the lottery. You know where he was like just playing with good players all the time. 'cause I was thought he had a really nice feel for the game. I got to read you. Some Mike Miller Trade Trivia so he was the last piece of the Chris Webber Penny Hardaway Trade from eighteen. Ninety three. He was the last first round pick. I couldn't believe that when I looked at up today at Pitt carried over from nineteen ninety. Three he was traded in two thousand three with a first round. Pick for jour- gooden which is a trade. That just seems abysmal now. I can't believe that you thought drew. Gooden had a first for Mike Miller. Now see other then he was in that crazy. Kayla of Oj. Mayo Chris Wallace fiasco where Chris Wallace. I would it have the fifth pick. Yeah and he I forget what it always four did he have forty went down to five. Yeah he flips picks so he can end up with. Oj Mayo and gives Minnesota Kevin Love and Mike Miller. Both of them. So somehow they Chris. Wallace goes with the two best guys. That are still trying to figure that out. And then a year later He's traded with Randy Foye. Joe Houses least favorite wizards bodes trade of all time Randy. Foye Mike Miller for the number five. Pick in two thousand nine. Which could have been steph. Curry Ricky. Rubio said Washington have it. Con- ends up getting it and then somehow lifts and takes Johnny Flynn and there. You go four trades where the other team probably Has the fans have their feelings hurt? I really enjoyed Mike bowers game. I can't believe he's a top floor. Pick to redraft but There we are. Who Do you have for five? I just wanted to add to that that draft in two thousand eight to make sure we had it right now. That's right yet. He had wallace had five. Any traded up to get to three with Mayo and Westbrook in between them and Westbrook at the time was like four was kind of a reach. Felt like that's his high. Go where we do. If we do the redraft Westbrook will be obviously for higher but I loved Westbrook and college. I was stunned when he went for it. It's seems I did love him. I did. I have stuff written i. He was like big sleeper in the draft. But I thought he was like just this energy guy off the bench. I didn't think he was going to be Russell. Westbrook I don't like the prestige in none of those guys did. Pj CARLESIMO WHO? I became close allies. Like what was going on there he goes. I was screaming banging the table. Going Brooke. Lopez's Brook Lopez's Brook Lopez's and he goes in every time I come back to prestige prestige like we really kind of loved the idea what this book I can be and I'm telling you you may liked him but like for Presi to actually pull the trigger on it especially over Kevin Love. Yeah I watched that. Ucla I watched a lot of that team may stop. I Kevin Love not to be the first. Ucla guy off that team in a draft was inconceivable. Westbrook was like the first like couple months almost like a six man even on the Ucla team and then he started a blossom. Was still there too. Man Now team is amazing you know they played slower Holland Style and all that stuff. So I mean hell I I honestly think prestige taking Westbrook when he did with the allegations are serious. I think it's like one of the greatest picks of that decade. Because you have to go back and go okay. But what are you actually drafting a back? Then we were still a little more position obsessed you know the same thing like with Turkoglu in pages your benching. Now you just figure it out which is kind of crazy that like now. We can't do that like we already have a six ten white guy. We can't do that. We can't just put another guy out there that can chew like how stupid it was that we didn't let basketball. Have this evolution. Where it's a wait. Those guys are both really big and can handle and can shoot or aren't we let them both play right and Westbrook is another argument. That by the way in that Miller deal was actually recycled in that trade and Brian Cardinal Walker who actually my Pick Brian Cardinal The Custodian Aka the Janitor Aka citizen pain. Brian Cardinal Out of purdue. Are you being serious right now? Now I just want to freak out about the Nash. Everson thing no all right so this is where it gets a little interesting but I do think you Jamal Crawford. I liked him more. I thought he'd be different like he was a guy. Liked a lot before this. He ended up going a but just the fact that he put up buckets for this long up until two years ago. I mean he was in the league last year. So I I know. He played for a million teams. I'm not saying you're winning any games with them but he was somebody that just to give you that much at like. This also has a lot to do with the other options. That are out there. I just think Value Ham. I getting almost twenty years of shooting from the sky despite that it's a little isolation heavy. Yeah whatever. I'll take your offer three six men in the year words. I had him at five as well. I think it's the right pick. He's one of those guys if he's like your Eighth Guy. Incredible feature six guy that that actually. Yeah but that also means you're coach by playing him and crunch time. Yeah and he's one of your best four guys. You're not winning anything. As we found out with the first ten years of his career I always kind of liked his game. I mean he's one of the worst defense suppliers of any good player the last twenty years. He's just a complete sieve but the the thing that was annoying with him on the clippers near the end there was he really would take the biggest shot of the game. He like a is the Marcus smart. Edis where it's like. I got this and it's like no you not even sure you should be out there with five minutes left. He's he's to me like you almost want him the way the Celtics used Daddy House. Two Thousand Eight. That's my dream Jamal Crawford scenario. Give me an awesome sixteen minutes a game instant offense and then kind of stay out of the way if I'm trying to win a title if I seven eight minutes left in the fourth quarter against subbed out. Yeah you have to. You can't plan He played seventy four playoff games. Thirty nine percent fuel goes shooter. Thirty one percent from three the other thing with him. There was this thing like that. He was awesome three point. Shooter knew he just wasn't you know he was like he was the master of the four point. Play which you know. Congratulations that's great. But that's not helping me when a title he was that good of a three point shooter and it was one of those guys that always seem like the shot was going to go in but it went in a lot less than I think people remembered. So I'm I'm sure people are. Listen is going wait a second. What was wrong with Jamal Crawford? Who's awesome like sorry He's Today's player. Isn't that nice piece to have on a team but You know just not as good of a shooter as I think he thought he was. He played in big cities. Chicago NEW YORK ATLANTA. La Yellow had a little bit of time with Minnesota Phoenix at the end. Yet a portland run there but he like hit all the major markets. I love that. He has a nice New York stretching there. He actually went for twenty game with the Knicks when he was twenty seven but he has become oddly overrated. A little bit. Because we've seen the cross over a million times on the Internet and it's sick. We've seen him shake people pull up from deep. The four-lane plays I wouldn't say like he's not even close whenever we start going like historic great shooters of all time. You're not talking about tomorrow. I think everybody really likes him. Okay that's capable. I love this guy so overrated like I feel guilty even saying that a little bit but the idea of him is. He's a really good player. He had a really long career. He came out really. Early was just one year at Michigan. But I think everybody loves this dude. Every time I see him on a panel or some show like guys light up a little bit so he's held up a little bit higher than the fact is that you know. Look he was never. I don't think of him like I never felt like Jamal Crawford was a star and I think sometimes he's talked about that way so two things there one of the most popular actual players with the other players. I think he's like on a short list of just do everybody. Everybody loved them also really popular with the media and there was a year when I would the last time. He won the sixth man award or he was up for it and it was just insane that he that he was even a candidate. But I think just the media really liked him. He was always really gracious and thoughtful and awesome to everybody. And you know it's smart. It was well played but You know I think if he's playing thirty five minutes for you you're not you're not making around to the playoffs. I don't think My six pack. This is where it gets dark just for the people listening. Here's is on the board right now. No particular order. Most Peterson quitting Richardson Desmond. Mason Joma glory there smiles. Eddie House to Sean Stevens San Joel Priscilla Joe. Brazil should have gone with Joel principle. I think he would have been more intimidating There's a little speedy claxton. Ed Eduardo. Now Harare undrafted Balik Allen. I like now. Harare Kion Dueling. That's really what we're looking for here. So I'M GONNA go with Quentin Richardson because for two years. Oh four or five u sixteen and six almost seven threes. A game made thirty six percent. Not Great but not awful but was you know in modern times more of a three and D Guy. Who could rebound a little bit a little bit ahead of his time? I liked him on the sense teams. he was fun with DERAs miles when they were doing the tap their head thing. I think he was a of lagged teammate. In different places and his career was bad. He became kind of a contract. Figure there for the second half of it but at least I know he could contribute to good team because we saw it. So I'm taking him sex Clinton Richardson. He could have been in the mix. Maybe for five. Yeah he ended up being a nice player in in a good role player. Where I think you're right. You knew kind of exactly. We were getting from him and then they did have that little. Run there with clippers where it was just so much fun but again. That's not necessarily what we're drafting. And that also means a dairy miles is still available. Which I imagine will be available for this draft by the way was one of the drafts that Kinda was like. Hey so little wakeup call here. Stop falling in love. The long athletic guys long length. Because Strom all swift is the poster child for that one love storm Auschwitz coming out Stromer swift was almost instant flame out. I was going back and Reading Billy Knight who was the GM that pulled the trigger. Do you remember the head coach? Vancouver in two thousand was due. Jackson is Sidney Lowe. Oh yeah he was the nego like nine and forty one or some some terrible record six and forty two four day. I went back and read the article of them being interviewed after the pick. They mentioned hey. This guy's young like every other sentence every other sentence and one thing. I've always noticed with busts. It's unbelievable how often the repeats itself. Is that you. Don't play nearly as well your rookie year. And then what they do is they give you a ton of minutes in your sophomore year to prove that you do actually suck and you'll see so many guys that weren't good. That have this real nice. Bob and his best career year was his second season right. And it's not because he improved and then fell off because they actually gave you more shots and forced the issue with you. Ran More stuff through you just to make sure they could okay. We actually made a mistake here so I stopped. It was kind of my Earl Clark Reckoning Earl Clark Louisville long score did some stuff at Louisville and I go you know what but if you if you're just long and I don't see that you have real basketball skills this this draft fuck with my head so bad because I was stopped loving all these really tall guys that can't dribble and can't shoot the first one. Was Brad sellers going back to the eighties? Wow that's first time where I was just out on those type of guys from that point on 'cause I'm Jay kind of needed Brad sellers in the late eighties. And he was a staff like he you know he was the six eleven guy who couldn't shoot a rebound said who who what's left. Are we doing yeah we do? Why are you out there and you and your soft so yeah? I was shocked to find out. Stromer swift played for nine seasons. I don't remember I honestly. If if we are to the bigger basketball fans I would love to just talk to random people if you should be a rigorous series. What was your favorite strobe miles swift? Memory 'cause I have none. I don't remember anything about his career. The head dunk on Was another lsu. Guy Who also is one of my other guys tyrus Thomas Thomas. Yeah right so tires Thomas Wade. Save it for the. Oh six redraft ables. Because that's when we got to do because I remember I was on a flight with a GM leaving. Virginia after the Portsmouth Tournament and I go this tyrus Thomas run because you know he and Davis had that really nice round he goes. Oh my God and he sold me on Thomas. I'm still young and impressionable. He sold me because he goes not only can tie up. Thomas do all this stuff. You can run your offense. He's the sickest happy all these different things and I go. I gotTa Stop Liking these guys. All the tires had a little bit more well rounded stuff in his game but Yeah Strauss with memory. It was going around this week because everybody sent it to me because they know how I feel about. Strom out swift is he. Dunks on tyrus. Thomas and tires gets back to the play to try to reject it and swift. I mean the dunk is one of the best dunks you've seen in a game. It's dat awesome of a dunk but you get a little bit older. You start thinking who do I wanNA marry versus you? I want to date and your valuations. Get better I have an incredible strom out swift fact for you career record in the playoffs. Owen seven games not net series. Never WanNa be you wear seven. Not Playoff routes games owned seven. Never WanNA play game nine seasons so who you taking seven. You didn't tell me he actually got a decent second contract by the gets to that but the thing is he made forty two million forty three million those good athletes who could offensive rebound with. Just throw you off the scent you know you watch. Someone gave the Ed Pinkney was like that too. Picked it was way better this drama swift but those those lanky forwards who could like just get put back that guy. Oh it was. It was always deceiving. Who Do you have at seven? Strowman was done as a starter. Twenty five years old. Now all right Going through the board here going through the board. We could probably speeded up at this point of the of the redraft almost added material so I I think I'm GonNa go Eddie House how. I thought I was going to get them later. Eddie how how? Many playoff threes. He hit his entire career to guess. No I don't take guess. Guess twelve now thirty nine. I thought it was GONNA be like one hundred twenty. Yeah I do to be low. Because he's not in the playoffs or many times I just figured between the the Phoenix and the two Boston seasons. I don't know why in my head. He'd made all these streets but he was in to Boston years. Twenty nine for sixty eight three but he helped win the title game for game six like. He's made huge shots. This is a massive Celtics playoff. But who am I overvalue like who am I missing on? There's not another draft room behind me. That's freaking out being like. I can't believe they took Eddie House who one day they found a scattering report on them. And I know I've said this story before but the scouting report said won't shoot unless he has the basketball. I had him tents. Just sit on my board. So it wasn't a big upset now. Was it a reach? I WANNA reach nothing. Now is a reach. I gotta take a good good. I'm going to take a good locker room guy pretty well. So that's the case for any house is Awesome Locker Room. Guy Could actually come in and make a big shot in a game. It's not it's not the wrong pick I had Desmond Mason seven so I'm GonNa take them an eighth You know like a bunch of the guys that his draft at his peak was a fifteen and five I just want to say he was enough of an asset that he was basically the centerpiece of the Ray Allen Trade because if you look at that trade it was Gary Payton News an expiring contract Desmond Mason for Ray Allen Ronald Berry. Kevin Kelly in two thousand three first round pick. That was like the fact that Milwaukee basically they give up their first round. Pick N Ray Allen so they could get Gary Payton for two months and Desmond Mason. So he had to evade real value back then unless Ray Allen is the biggest cancer in the world I didn't realize it but that's one of the Weirder trade so anyway. I'm taking him a mad. That houses off the board. Who Do you have a number nine? I look at the fact that he would come in and make big playoff shots that that puts him in another class. Where a lot of these guys chance to do that. So that's why I'm going. I think it's a reach because I actually meant to take this guy before him and then take Eddie House after but it looks like would have been Jamaal. Magloire should have gone this late. He should have gone either. The two picks pat. He said that without any irony at all. No what are you talking about? Shimomura war deserves to go seven eighth not night in the two thousand wraps. Yuma glory was the redraft Green Room going with Eddie House really. Yeah it's tough. He made it all star. Team Minute All star team and I'm going to tell you the more I dug into the Jamaal Magloire story the more I realize the numbers don't don't do it. Justice so just the unquantifiable Jamaal. Magloire he yeah a double double with New Orleans you know I mean I always liked him. I I am up. This is the tenth pick. Yes unpick Darius Miles. Can't fall any further. I gotTA take him here. The case for dares miles who did get hurt to be fair he. He is another like we talked about earlier. These guys that. I'm not sure what they did. Couldn't shoot three's Had NO POST UP GAME? This speak of was a career forty seven percent shooter was just a good athlete was fun to watch on. A fast break had a lot of personality. I'm not really sure what the best case scenario but was Portland. He was playing on the Oh six Blazers. Before he got hurt he was fourteen and four and a half a game basically but but had an value that he got traded for. Andre Biller when Andre Miller had a lot of value that clippers cavs trade It never totally happened but I just want to say I really enjoyed them. I was rooting for the whole time. And I still haven't totally given up on them. We always talk about the guys we haven't given up on yet. I have no idea why I wanted it to happen so bad. I I thought he had a nice feel for the game like he was a good passer he he did. He had the right instincts he just. He was like a six foot. Ten twenty nine eight six foot nine. I guess I never knew what he was supposed to be. Who is the guy who's the prototype that he was supposed to be following and I don't think he knew it either? Yeah because back then to. We were still doing this. Mcgrady stuff where anybody that was big in handle had a little Bit of vision. It's just a knock. It's almost insulting to McGrady. How many different guys? We thought were like these next tall athletic guys. But I'm I'm with you like I remember being on the East Coast and I had to think for Darius. I mentioned earlier because I don't think he's ever going to Saint John's but I was always paying attention. And that's when you kind of I started your season ticket. Thing too with the clippers right and it was fun it was. It was like wait a minute. This team might not be very good but this could be something that was when I got league pass. I remember watching a lot of them. That one really fun year. It seemed like something was happening with them. Yes yeah and and. He seemed like he had a chance. It's funny I remember when I was preparing for the two thousand thirteen draft watching the Jaanus highlights of him at the Greek. Ymca when you back. When I was six eight thinking that he reminded me. There's biles this is before. He grew in extra three and a half inches when he got here. But same kind of thing. It's like what is this. This is something. It's funny how we just get attracted to those guys like There's something if he can only unlock. But now I look back a miles. Like what would he have unlocked? I don't know the roadmap for him to be an all star but I'm taking this stuff is so hard began. I couldn't. I'm so glad you said that because there's a version of the honest thing where you go. I'm not falling for this again right. There were plenty of teams. That also did like this. Draft was a draft of red heads. And then all the. Gm's were like blondes. From here on out right Jaanus sledge. Say that yacht female either way fifteenth and it seemed like Pretty Fair in fact that seem to maybe two spots early but it was like all right. Yeah roll the dice with the fucking Greek kid. We'll see but at that point and that's folks were doing whatever. Give this one a shot so I like the miles away. Just I'm I'm happy for him too. 'cause we know that it was really rough for him. Yeah and you know. We don't know these guys but I guess I'm with you. I've always kind of a soft spot for him. I love reason and I'm just. I'm happy that it looks like you know he and Q. Getting the PODCAST. Go and all that stuff. I'm just I'm just happy Because you know reading into it's just sad stuff so I'm glad for one One thing that's been lost. I think they did a six episode series of the life where they followed the clippers around. Which I can't believe isn't on Youtube if anyone has this on their VCR whatever like. Please put this on Youtube for America because it was a lot of like behind the scenes with with Quinn rich said a d miles and I remember them just their scenes of them getting gas and shit like that and it was. Just I just want to hang out with these guys like these guys anyway. let's rip through this. Who Do you have it eleven I'M GONNA go? Mopey should have gone higher guy that he went to low is overall analytics holds up. He's like top seven top eight guy and unfortunate for him. I think you know he was always kind of an off ball guy which could leave you out a place back then a little bit too much so you weren't as active. Were now off balls like kind of where you WANNA be. He would have been more productive today but he had a better career. I think then you realize you know a lot of these guys are like. Oh the stuck around. It's easy to forget. Kinda the second half to some of these careers but mopey probably should have gone higher thirty seven percent career. Three point shooter. I have Wow I can't believe he's still here Joel Priscilla I'm grabbing with the twelfth spot here You know eljay was a veteran of the lottery process. Light of the night Joe Bell. Just a veteran played Played Thirteen seasons. Had you know a couple of moments there with Portland in Oh eight. Oh nine range when they were doing the two headed monster thing at center So in Oita o-9 together. He's playing twenty three minutes a game. And averaging almost nine rebounds a game so he's just kind of one of those big white guys kind of knew how to put his hands up and grab a couple of rebounds and could finish a pass in the paint so I'm getting value there with at twelve with Priscilla you could do a lot worse than Joel. Priscilla the rest of the way this. She's a veteran. Who have thirteen another guy that I with on here. Marcus visor. Oh I was always. I was always no. I'm not taking him. I just wanted mentioned Pfizer. All Iowa state guys. It's Kinda like the the Babe Ruth League you want to check the birth certificate there but he was only twenty two and he came in but immediately wasn't gonNA work and then everybody's acquire they taking with brand and what I did love about the Bulls. Remember Jerry Krause his famous line after they broke everything up in nineteen ninety eight which really thinking back on. It is one of the dumbest thing that doesn't get knocked enough for being one of the dumbest thing in the history of modern sports than ninety eight. They said okay. We'll find like we're sick a fill an MJ in this whole thing. And we don't want to be the Celtics that was aligned. Jerry Krause saying we don't WanNa be the Celtics and hang on to these guys and then be a relevant and then have a forever rebuild solicits. Let's do this. They take five or they end up. Trading Brandy get another pick later on in the in the Eddy Curry Tyson Chandler thing and ninety eight when they won their last title one sixty games the next three years they went thirteen and sixty S. They went thirteen and thirty seven. Seventeen and sixty five fifteen in sixty seven. They had one second round appearance in the twelve years after that in one thousand nine hundred and took Pfizer who I liked but he was just too small for power for then not quick enough and all those things he had the ACL tear. He had thirty one tattoos in March of two thousand six. That was the full count there. Also a youth minister Marcus. Fizer started in thirty five games for his career. He was also turned his life around after a tired. Yeah Youth Minister. Yeah I think he was a pretty pretty sketchy as teammate. I think he was one of those One of those guys when he played was kind of like stay away from back and not locked in yeah Early on then turned his life around. I just WanNa talk about five or a little bit. Because that's another whiff I got a I go. We have slept in writing this one. I think I even like doing a little bit. More dueling might be the call here. I'M GONNA go key on dueling okay. It's fair could be could be A ninth man potentially on like a second round playoff team was going to take her off for screens and toughness. I've always had a thing for what? Oh now rob. But I don't think it's fair to take take him over dueling Girotti so still there. I don't want to end up with strowman swift and I'm not taking Pfizer or court Alexander Speed accident well so I think the right pick here is either speedy claxton or not her just because they made plans. But I'm not GONNA do that. I'm GonNa go off the grid. I'm going to surprise people here. A J Guyton. I'm GonNa Take Chris Carrawell. Aminat take Demar Johnson. I see what you're doing there so if you look at his first two years. I can't do that. He was even as even before he had the car accident. He wasn't good. Yeah I'm not doing that I'll take I'll take a speedy claxton then 'cause in all three. He actually played crunch time minutes for a team that won the title when when Parker was still in that light almost like two thousand eight Rondo version. Tony Parker when Either those young point guards. You can't rely on them every finals game and you you kind of have to need that veteran guys that can come in and Kinda right. The ship speedy Claxton was there and his his His Spurs stuff twenty-four Playoff Games as fourteen minutes a game Average five again. That's all I need. He was in the rotation of a finals team. So there you go I I have him. Just a nudge over stroz swift and Jerome Louisa. Couple other names here. Lavar POSTEL WHO? I loved Saint. John's I was kind of like Mark Allen. Me Alan Naturally I remember Khalid Al Mean Played One season. How about the Bulls? After this I did find some bulls articles that were bullish on their future. It's like man. We got Pfizer and Crawford and we got Guidon Jake Vasco and Calill elamine all in on. Well you mentioned the the idiotic bowls rebuild before it actually worked. They just did it for the wrong drafts. 'cause you think about it. The the in ninety nine they got the first pick out and brand two thousand they have the fourth pick in the seventh pick and then in two thousand one they flip brand for a top three pick and they had another top three picks so they ended up. They had five top seven picks in a three year stretch. Other brand they turned into one of those but Just really bad luck tab of fourth pick and a seventh pick in the same draft and not only go over to but it's justifiable that you went over to say it's like you can have worse than that. Yeah you actually. No one should have known. Should you know Yorick who played for The Spurs I always Kinda liked him. He came in the League. I think what he was. Twenty Four Marco. Oh I had a whole couple. Season ticket runs with him because he the first couple of years. I the clippers tickets. He was pretty competent. I actually liked his game too. Yeah he eating on some smaller guys as I would watch in the only thing I have left on this too is historically as you mentioned plenty of times and it's it's clearly thought out how horrible this is historically but I was going to look at the teams that were drafting. Like when you look at the top six teams in this draft. How bad their starting lineups were. Yeah the this. The basketball is even close to being like we know. It's better now and in the depth of stars in the exciting storylines and all this stuff. But it's almost easy to forget. Like where the hell were these teams like. What were they doing the nets now that first year Martin didn't have kid it was Marbury and this actually isn't a terrible five. But it's Steph van Horn Kenyan Kendall Gill. Who was you know at that? Point on the way out Aaron Williams just roll guy. Vancouver's team was SCHRIEF Abdul Rahim Bibi. Dickerson is going to get her othello. Big Country The clippers had a twenty one year old Odem. Jeff mcginness Eric. Pike Hausky Koloa Candy. Megacity was only played like nineteen minutes. A game the bull had Ron Mercer ELT brand or test. Our test wasn't our test then now at all he's twelve game Hoiberg. Bryce drew was getting fucking real minutes all year long. I mean it. The Magic had team McCoy at twenty one. Put up a twenty seven eight and five season but after him it was Daryl Armstrong Grant Hill played. Four Games. Bo Outlaw D Brown Atlanta's lineup was Jason Terry coup coach. Seventeen Games matombo Jim Jackson and Lorenzen Wright these teams. Those are thirty guys that were playing the majority of the minutes for those six games or for those sixteenths. It was a talent soon and it allowed us. It lasts that basically all the way till oh seven or eight range. You can even see it if you go back and you read some of the Trade Value Calms. I did for usually. I'm just laying out. What the assets were in the moment and guys who are like eighteen or twenty or twenty four. It's nuts you can't believe it I think once we hit oh nine two thousand ten range I think things really really flipped. But you also had you know I've written about it a million times about the Too much too fast. Too Soon era from like ninety three through ninety nine of all those young guys who just got too much money too fast and just didn't have the careers that they should've had when you think about the two thousand season dish should have been the peak of Kenny Anderson and big dog Robinson and guys like that some of them made a Derrick Coleman. They're all these blue chip guys. That should have been in their absolute heyday and they just weren't so you're missing like probably nine ten blue shippers that should have been awesome and Vin Baker He's already starting to Peter Shawn Kemp's already basically played his way out of the League and you go on down the line. It's just like what happened but that's probably Start for another podcast but that was also to you. Remember the lockout in people being like. Are you guys kidding me like we started this podcast talked about guy staying in better shape? I would imagine I would give most players the benefit of the doubt of just. Make sure you're ready. There's GonNa be some disappointments. That was the big joke twenty years ago when a lot of these guys came from the lockout they were never the same like Shawn. Kemp physical never the same person show after the lockout. And it's like well you just. You just didn't care but it's that's a great point though. I hadn't really thought of it that way. The too much too soon thing. I know you've written about it but it's just it's just a good reminder of you have these classes that are all supposed to replace each other but then you have this group of incredibly talented guys players. We kinda liked. And you're like what what the Hell's going on here and then you add in this class and I also noticed too when you go back and read some of the stuff how many GM's that were running. Some of the stuff and no one should really be blamed for anything after this kind of class that we just went through but a lot of these guys never got jobs again. I mean bill night at the the Atlanta job when everyone in the world news taking Sheldon Williams Duke Five. And you're like what could you possibly that shook me for a month? I'd go back and watch more and more Sheldon Williams and I'm like how could anyone take this guy? V like there's no way this is real and he took him fifth in there. Are Some guys taken? Picks there that would never be given the job to run a franchise. The way they had twenty years ago will Just give me one movie recommendation. Before we go bombshell liked it. Oh interesting yeah dude seriously. Shelley's they're on Plan Meghan Kelly creepy. Good how good that is. And you know Margo Robbie's Yeah I'm not gonNA change the channel. I didn't like it as much as you'd like behind the scenes. You always were weighed. You've always got out of the office so anything that has to do with like television being on the deal and I was. I was in it every day in the hallways you were above that seed in a few that. I really liked the movie I called never rarely sometimes always which is not the most uplifting movie but I thought it was exceptionally well done and kind of an important movie side recommend that one okay And then Ozark sees a win huge fan. I have Going backwards movie for you. Okay just quickly. I watched election with my daughter today. I fast forward. I knew there's a couple like sex things said I had the remote ready just like to pause and then get through it but How old is she? She's fourteen? She can handle so. I don't WanNa be in the summer with urban stuff's happening but That movie's really fun. Rewire there's certain scenes. Yeah yeah there's a couple but is I was on it. It was never an issue Early Alexander Payne Matthew Broderick had that fund drama. Run there from late nineties. You can count on me the year later early early. Reese Chris Klein just being a doofus before we realized that his only move resigned. Look at this actor. And then say he's not acting. This is just what he's like. It's a really fun. Quirky had seen a while we even did. I think Rewatch ables ninety nine on it. I wasn't on that one But I I I like the Alexander Payne movies. I've watched that. I watched the descendants and I watch sideways during the quarantine in and You know I'm not. I'm not breaking ground by saying that guy's really good but it was just fun to watch all three of in ten days and see the progression I love sideways. Sideways is like one of my favorite movies last fifteen years. So there you go. I saw I saw election. Theater loved it immediately. People thought I was a Weirdo. Because I was really on it and I'd be like you gotTa see his movie election because he's movie election and I'd like a couple of girls you know. Twenty three twenty four. They're like that movie was kind of weird. Mike Do you not see Alec? That's how simple it is perfectly executed. The whole deal is it's great like when the kid who's in the wheelchair gives the speech running for president revised praise. Yeah yeah and it's perfectly like the way he says it and I'm like that's high school. That's being in high school and the whole deal. And then yeah one of the other person like somebody else's giving a speech and like some pimple faced red-headed kids eat me raw reeves in the back and then the guy playing the principles perfect the guy. You know. We're not GONNA do that here. And the Principals. Perfect the whole thing. I love election and sideways is funny because I did not like it when I first saw. It was too young too young to understand how Heavy that movie is it's it's I can watch sideways. Sideways is up there with with very few movies. Watch 'cause I just started up Shawshank I just was going through. WanNa see some scenes question for you tweeted about it. If red and the crew his lunch crew there were close enough to Andy Efrain to get him on roof tarring duty outside couple bottle of suds yet. Where was that crew when the sisters were beaten the hell out of them and we know what else is going on so like? Oh I'm good for tarring but you guys can't help me out with these dudes well read says that. I do believe those were the worst two years for Andy which is being repeatedly raped by sisters which I think I would hope that. Were the worst years but Tarring happened after the sisters had gotten kinda tired or Andy at that point but I think the friendships with those other guys. Kinda deepened. A little bit later but still rigged as the they still rigged it so he got picked. So there's a scene. It goes right from that to write to that. I so basically what I found is probably one of the greatest moves of our lifetime. So I'm just there's a lot of problems I don't want to say that because his family now it's one of obviously one of my favorite movies ever but you could really if you're going to really start nitpicking. You could do that movie. Yeah I still don't know how he knew which way to turn in the sewage pipe because laughed because I think the Grade Yeah I. I don't think you've worked construction enough. I think of Andy. I think you could just you people can. I can tell if something's level just by looking at it just years on the site. What he's doing is he's going. I need a certain grade because this is a pipe. That's dispensing outwards. He probably just felt the level. I think I would screwed that up and gone left and then like how fuck. Where is this where exit throw up again? Russillo stay safe will see in a week and And I don't know what I don't know what the next redraft ables with us is going to be but it we might end up having to do all three at some point may maybe but at some point all right. I'll We can listen to your podcast as well which you'll be doing at least one of this week. Nfl draft is coming. It'd be the last like real sports. Were probably going to have her fur wet but anyway Good senior talk to our. Thanks man. All right thanks to world central kitchen. Don't forget to go to W. C. K. Dot Org and if you have the means give we can help out check out. What they're doing. Maybe you will get into it and want to give something thanks to what we do in the shadows. The dramatic return of the fx original comedy. The Hollywood reporter called the series first season ridiculous funny and warned that you will die laughing. This season shadows continues to follow four favourite vampires who've been limited hundreds of years premieres Wednesday April fifteenth. Nfl streaming next fx on Hulu. And if you missed season one catch up now on what we do in the shadows on fx on Hulu. Stay safe out there. Listening doctors listened to the scientists. We'll have more later in the week. One more redraft on the book of Basketballs Padres in two thousand one and Zach Lowe and then to Rewatch ables total recall. Come in Monday night. An enemy of the state meek stay safe. Listen to experts. See the wayside.