19 Episode results for "President Jeb Bush"

Day 1,033: Nine witnesses to testify in week two of Trump impeachment

The 11th Hour with Brian Williams

45:48 min | 1 year ago

Day 1,033: Nine witnesses to testify in week two of Trump impeachment

"Tonight we're now just hours away from the latest round of marathon impeachment hearings just as tonight new transcripts are out from closed-door witness interviews more administration figures describing kind of shadow foreign policy while the president labels them never trumpers tonight. What's on the line going into tomorrow? And what to watch for him. Why Congress is looking back on the president's Britain answers to muller knowing what they know now also this evening? The president makes an unscheduled. Yeah Joe trip to the hospital on a Saturday raising a number of questions all of it as the eleventh hour gets underway on Monday night. Good evening once again from our NBC. News headquarters here in New York Day. One thousand thirty three of the trump administration as a new week because underway another dangerous week for this presidency. Courtesy of the House. Democrats running the impeachment inquiry the next round of live televised hearings set to start just hours from now. There are nine more witnesses scheduled to appear just this coming week late tonight. Two more witness transcripts were released east more on that in a moment tomorrow the hearings resume with two officials who were listening in on the July. Twenty five call with the new president of Ukraine hands hence advisor Jennifer Williams and national security staffer lieutenant. Colonel Alexander Vincent Washington Post reporting. Vincent is expected to testify about his alarm over trump's request to investigate his political opponents. We got a preview of Williams testimony over the weekend when transcript of her November seventh deposition was released she told investigators she took notes of the call and that quote the mention of those specific investigation seemed seemed unusual. She also said trump's requests seemed to be about his personal political agenda as opposed to a broader foreign policy objective of the United States. She then added. When I went back to check my notes I had written that president trump had raised Barista she had also told investigators she did not know why I bere- sma the Ukrainian gas company that put Joe Biden's son on the board was not in the call summary that we all got to see the one released to the public tomorrow afternoon? We'll see lawmakers questioned former special envoy to Ukraine Kurt Volcker and former senior National Security Council. Official Tim Morrison Morrison The New York Times reporting tonight that Volcker will tell lawmakers. He was out of the loop at key points in trump's effort to pressure Ukraine Peter Baker among the authors. There's that piece he's standing by to join us. In a moment Tim Morrison worked for former National Security Adviser John Bolton and over the weekend his deposition was released he. He testified that Bolton had met privately with trump and August to try to persuade the boss to release nearly four hundred million dollars in aid to Ukraine and that Unquote Ambassador Bolton simply said he wasn't ready to do it Morrison also told investigators about trump donor turned ambassador to the EU Gordon Son Lund's involvement in the administration's effort to pressure. Your Ukraine quote ambassador son believed at least related to me that the president. It was giving him instruction Gordon Sunlen scheduled to testify Wednesday morning. It's likely to be an eventful day. Remember he has already amended his. I closed door deposition revealing that. He told a top Ukrainian official. The country probably would have to give in to trump's demands and announced investigations investigations into his political rivals. The Biden's if they wanted to unlock the military aid the Wall Street Journal says it has seen emails. Els Sunland sent to several White House officials keeping them in the loop up to date on efforts to get Ukraine to launch those investigations in the weeks weeks leading up to that now critical July twenty five. Call the number two house. Republican one of trump's more vocal defenders was asked over the weekend about about what Sunland might say on Wednesday congressman. scalise if Gordon Assad who met with the president a half dozen times this Summer testifies on Wednesday. The president said to me. We're not releasing the aid until they announced they're going to investigate the Biden's and Barack Resona doesn't that blow a hole in the president's defense. Well the president's defense is that those things didn't happen. Are you going to say that. He's he's wrong that he's lying. Look I know you've been asking and others vast hypothetical questions. Let's talk in reality. Are you willing to to abide by. Whatever Gordon's says happened by Gordon? I abide by what the president did and what presidents Alinsky actually receive SEIB. As we mentioned there are new transcripts tonight from two upcoming witnesses. One is from Foreign Service officer David Holmes. He's the one who gave gave closed door testimony. Friday he is to testify publicly. This coming Thursday. He's the person who said he overheard. Sunland tell trump over a cell phone call. Ukraine would move forward with the investigation that trump had asked for in that July twenty fifth call in his closed door deposition homes told lawmakers lawmakers he clearly recalls the conversation because it was quote an extremely distinctive experience in my foreign service career. I've never ever seen anything like this. Someone calling the president from a mobile phone at a restaurant and then having a conversation of this level of candor colorful language. There's just so much about the call. That was so remarkable that I remember it vividly. He went on to say it was assumed that American electronic communications vacations were being monitored in Ukraine. All of that brings us to our leadoff discussion on a Monday night. The aforementioned Peter Baker Chief White House correspondent on it for the New York Times Co author notably of the new book impeachment and American history. Mika Oh Yang Attorney and former staffer for both the house Intel and armed armed services committees and Katie Benner Justice Department reporter for the New York Times. Good evening and welcome to you all counselor. I'd like to begin with you here in New York. What is this week likely to yield? How further down the road on the story? Are we likely to be sitting here Friday night. So what we saw saw last week was the action happening in Ukraine are officials in Ukraine understood. Where the president's instructions and why it was so important that they're investigating corruption? This week the action moves to Washington Washington inside the White House. And we're going to hear from people who are hearing directly from the President what he wanted in terms of this exchange with Ukrainians four foreign investigation exchange of White House at foreign investigation of his rival and the Republicans are going to have a very hard time arguing that these are people who are not indirect communication with the president so there fall bax are falling away with each increasing witness. That's true every time they have come forward with a defense of the president. What they we have found is that defenses later undercut by the facts of the president? Didn't say this directly that the president didn't know every time we get a subsequent witnesses said actually I I heard the president say this. I heard the president. Say on a call to Gordon Sunland. I heard other officials tell me that this is exactly what the president told them to do. Peter Considering Volcker was special show on void Ukraine. If he indeed tries to argue he was out of the loop of phrase we all I learned in the lexicon from the the era of Bush forty one. How is that likely to go over? Well he's got some explaining to do in his testimony because he was the first one called in for closed door deposition -sition and some of the things he said in that position would later in conflict with testimony. Given by some of the other witnesses for instance he gives a blander description of the July tenth meeting at the White House that we've later learned included John Bone abruptly ending Ed and Fiona Hill Confronting Gordon Sunland and later golden saying so. You know I'm not gonNA be part of any drug deal. He has to explain that Y. He didn't know that Gordon Zahn told the Ukrainians that in fact the security the aid release was tied to whether they didn't announce investigations or not. Now what he's GonNa say in his testimony were told is that he hadn't been told about Gordon Sahlins this conversation with Ukrainians and he hadn't been told that the president's Alinsky of Ukraine was being pressured to go on CNN to make a statement and that that July tenth beating he simply. You didn't hear the things that other people have reported not challenging their accounts but says it's possible he was talking with somebody else at the time and didn't happen to hear the particular words that were exchange so that's going to be interesting because he's one of the witnesses. The Republicans wanted to call because they thought that he offered them some testimony that was useful to them he said in his first. Go round in the closed-door door deposition that he didn't know of any quid pro quo attached to the security aide. Now of course we have testimony to the contrary from other witnesses. Katie Benner the president. It has no shortage of loyal cabinet. Officers the guy you cover the attorney general among the most loyal to this president. Talk to us about out. The case attorney. General Bar made this weekend about the president's conduct. Sure without ever saying the word impeachment Attorney General Bar Basically said that the president has extraordinary power so much power that it can't be limited it can't be really hemmed in by Congress. He sees the impeachment procedure as is an attempt to undo a duly elected president and he sees what he calls the resistance and of course what. Democrats claim Solomon's resistant. He sees that as a way of undermining owning democracy going against the constitution and basically trying to say that elections have consequences now. What's interesting about this is that it almost lays out a roadmap for the argument game at the Senate may variable make so should the president be impeached? Should this go to trial in the Senate as macos mentioned a lot of the arguments that have been made by Republican. So far have been batted down as witness after witness comes forward so they may very well echo this argument. which is the president? Had the power to do this and it was not wrong. And of course that bumps up against the classic argument that the President or any one of us is above the laws of this land right and so what bar was saying that you know as president while President he he has executive power that executive power is to make decisions in his lane. His Lane just happens to be extremely broad covers. The Defense Department covers. The Justice permanent covers the State Department. And if this is what he wants to do. This is okay boy. Mika it's hard to know where to go from here Jennifer Williams writes the word Barista down in her contemporaneous notes of listening to the President of the United States on the phone. Barista the word the proper noun the proper now yes. That's right appears nowhere. In the summary We all receive which the president erroneously keeps calling the transcript. Read the transcript we would love to read a transcript of the call What does that omission tell you or is it insignificant? It's actually very significant. And one of the reasons it significant is because as Volcker testified Barista and Biden were linked inextricably in the mind of the president's attorney Rudy Rudy Giuliani. The he saw those things as a way a way of investigating the Biden's in a way that would politically benefit the president. Now there's some question about whether or not the president links those two things because burris itself was a company that had some questions about it. Don't corruption but it doesn't occur in the context of that it occurs in the context of Biden Heiden and so if burris must coming up if that's conveyed to Dolinsky is this is the investigation that you need to start that. It's very clear that the president is trying to get Dolinsky to basically engage in like the planting of evidence against a rival of his now. One of the challenges on that is there are limits on the present behavior in the constitution. It's not unfettered power. As far as his defense of the president the constitution says the president can be removed for treason. Bribery and other high crimes and misdemeanors misdemeanors. And what you see here in this. The President Sanctums Alinsky. I'll give you the aid if you start this investigation. Is the president trying to bribes Alinsky into a corrupt act the investigation of his rival by giving him something that is an official act from trump. That trump is trying lying to withhold and indeed when the speaker came out and use the B word bribery. That's the point they're trying to hammer at. That's exactly right and part of the reason why they're so focused on this question. Is it an explicit thing that the framers included in the constitution to say. The president can't engage in bribery which they understood as using the powers of the office for your own personal personal benefit and Katie Benner. Is there any peril to the president continuing to take shots at witnesses in real time which he did during the Muller investigation. It's now and every time he does that he puts himself on more peril. So for example we saw with witness former ambassador to Ukraine. He tweeted about her and he said things that she felt were threatening and immediately Adam Schiff said you know what we take witness intimidation very seriously almost in with the president was reading yet. Another impeachment Clause for him breading another article impeachment for himself right then and there witness tampering. He almost can't help himself so the heat is turned up as witnesses. Come out this week. It will be interesting to see whether or not he continues ten years to overstep his boundaries in a way that that the house could Hughes against him. Peter Breaker we have to talk about the president's health because it's an issue because he did something over the weekend highly unusual. We've all become accustomed of learning. You know today is the president's annual physical at Walter Reed. Well Saturday without any prior notice. A motorcade was assembled and the president was hustled. Out to Walter Reed it led. Do you all kinds of reporting the president had to deny was anything on toward said it was routine indeed tonight Dr Shawn Conley. Who is a a commander in the US Navy? The president's physician has tried to settle the matter. They've put out this memo. He wrote to the Press Secretary for Republic distribution saying it was a planned interim checkup part of primary. Preventative Care The president has not had any chest pain nor was he evaluated valuated or treated for any urgent or acute issues specifically he did not undergo any specialized cardiac or neurologic evaluations nations. That wording is important. Those denials there are denials of the rumors that we chase down and reported on and kept hearing all day long. So what are we to make of this at the end of the day. Yeah it's very interesting. You don't see a statement like this at ten o'clock at night from the White House vision. There's you don't see a trip to the hospital like we saw on Saturday very often to be honest with you. He did go through a regular Annual physical just in February. It's only nine months later. You don't normally do this without announcing it in advance as he had in the past now they said look. This is just an opportunity to get in some some partial test. In other words partial well Toward this annual physical. They will continue it after the New Year. The doctor said but suspicions and remember. There's a long history of lots of white houses and lots of presidents. Not telling that's the full truth about health conditions of their presidents and this is not exactly a White House known for its forthcoming nature to begin with. So there's obviously a lot of suspicion they're trying to douse suspicion with the statement. The doctor not just a statement by Stephanie. Grisham the White House Press Secretary but by navy commander who you presume is more committed to making sure that his reports are accurate. Precise and honest. And they're hoping I think to kind of put an end to the speculation but it does still leave a lot of questions. Why do they do it on Saturday? Why didn't they tell us in advance? What else is going on here? One good thing for the president. According to the exam results that the doctor release was his. Cholesterol is down. He's been taking medication for that is back into a more healthier range. That's a good thing. Obviously for his help but they didn't release any other exam results. They didn't release away. They didn't release any other lists of exams. He might or might not have taken any future exams they plan to give him with. We're much obliged to our big three tonight. Never never can tell which topics are going to come up at this hour Peter Baker to Meco Yang to Katie Benner. Our thanks for helping us out and coming on the night coming up. The new congressional investigation goes back in time to so what the president told Muller in his written answers and whether or not he was being truthful. We'll ask a former. US Attorney about that and later we have an exclusive on some new data showing the ways that Russia is already honing. Its Message and picking favorites in the twenty twenty election as the eleventh hour is just getting started kicking off this new week. Hey eleventh-hour our listeners. Steve Kornacki here. I WanNa tell you about a new. NBC News podcast. I'm hosting called article two inside impeachment. It's exclusively dedicated to bringing you the latest developments on the impeachment inquiry in the president. Donald Trump. Every Monday Wednesday and Friday. I'M GONNA BE TALKING TO NBC News reporters who are closest to the story. Sorry to break down. What's new? What matters and what it means for the twenty twenty election and our country since you love the eleventh hour? I thought you'd enjoy it. Search now for article article two inside impeachment. Wherever you're listening to this podcast and subscribe for free? Thanks for listening. We are reduced to saying things like make of this what you will but today. The president said he would strongly consider testifying in the impeachment. Inquiry discounts has charlie savage of the New York Times reports about the last time trump's submitted written answers at least to an investigation against him quote house. Democrats are exploring whether the president trump lied in his written answers to Robert Muller's investigation. A lawyer for the House told a federal appeals court on Monday raising the prospect of an additional basis for for an article of impeachment the acknowledgement refocused attention on a quiet debate among Democrats about whether any impeachment of Mr Trump should go beyond the Ukraine affair and also accuse accuse them of obstructing the Russia investigation back with us. Tonight is Chuck Rosenberg former. US Attorney former senior official at the FBI also happens to host just are popular. podcast called for good reason the oath. Alright Chuck what. Specific portion of the written testimony already submitted did is raising flags now after the fact subset question. Is this a makeable case. Yeah so the portion we should focus John. His President Trump's denials that he knew about the connections with wikileaks that he was soliciting information about it really that he had any knowledge that wikileaks had played a role in You know sort of exposing stolen emails to the public. And what should we you know. Is it a makeable. Oh case Gosh prior new. That's much more difficult question. Perjury is a hard charge to bring normally what you need to make a successful perjury case is a rather precise question and a rather emphatic. Answer and I've watched a lot a lot of congressional hearings but I haven't seen a lot of precise questions and so is it makeable. Yes is it easy. No and also the president couch so many of his answers in the following. Way In the best of my recollection. Or I don't really recall but and when you have those types of answers it becomes even more difficult to make a perjury case. Let's take the president and his word. He says he strongly considering Testifying I isn't if if he insists on written answers again. Why isn't that a waste of everyone's time all over again? It's a waste of everyone's time all over again as a prosecutor. I never took written answers I would never want a written answer are they are virtually useless. Sometimes you'll see this in civil litigation but not in criminal now. I know an impeachment inquiry isn't quite a criminal case ace. But it's a it's an analog to one and here's the problem with Brian those questions despite what Mr Trump said we're not prepared by him they were prepared by his lawyers lawyers and carefully so and so so many again so many of the questions were You know rather precise from the Muller team someone of the answers were incredibly. I believe they if I were Adam Schiff if I were the Democrats I don't want that it's a waste of my time. It doesn't get me anywhere. Doesn't get me anywhere. And it doesn't permit me me as an investigator to gauge someone's tone or demeanor or to follow up with more pointed questions if I don't think they're telling me the truth. I think it's a waste of time chuck late last week. We saw a rare bit of emotion from you on the subject of our secretary of state is surmised on the Air Friday night that it was exactly because as you had taken an oath more than once to serve your country and here's a guy or secretary of state Famously graduated number. One in his West Point Class S. Nineteen eighty-six and has been in his career and army officer. Why the question is why? Hasn't he been supporting offering air. Eric Cover for his people. His employees among them veteran foreign service officers. The subject came up at the State Department today. We'll show oh you pompilio and talk about it on the other side. I always defense date more poison. Greatest diplomatic corps in the history of the world. He's talking about Ukraine policy. So I'm curious if you you think ambassador Taylor has been an effective policy. And if he's going to remain his job or if the president has lost confidence in him deportment. Fantastic job. I we delivered in a way that the Obama administration has not delivered on Ukraine's thanks. Everybody have a fantastic so counselor. You heard him there. He was given a direct chance to offer support a direct chance to talk about his employees by name. He's an accomplished. I man Brian. And he's an intelligent man but he's a coward. I said that last week and derived absolutely no pleasure from saying it but I stand by every word that I uttered look leadership means taking care of your people and when they're being attacked by the president of the United States that imperative does not change. He has failed as people. He has failed as a leader. And it's deeply disappointing. And so he had a chance just now you showed it on camera to emphatically state. That Eddie stood by ambassador. Taylor an ambassador Yovani rich and the men and women of the State Department and he gave us nothing but platitudes. When asked a specific question he walked away? Hey there is his answer Brian. I know you well enough to know. There's no joy in your answer. Chuck Rosenberg thank you as always for coming on the broadcast here with US tonight. Yes sir sure coming up for us. Donald trump was their candidate of choice in two thousand sixteen Putin said so publicly but which candidates are Russian state media rooting for four rooting. Against this time around. This could be telling. We have new and exclusive analysis of this very question right when we come back. Did you want president trump to win the election. Did you direct any of your officials to help him do that because he talked about bring. US A special relationship back to normal. So we know who Russia favored in two thousand sixteen and now a new analysis of Russian back news coverage is shedding light. On on which candidates the Kremlin may be focused on heading into twenty twenty. You may come across their stories when changing the Channel or surfing the Internet. But it's important to remember when you see those rt or sputnik news logos. You are getting information from Russian state-sponsored news Outlets the foreign policy research institute has analyzed over seventeen hundred news articles this year from RT and Sputnik News. It found the following. Joe Biden was mentioned more than three hundred times and led the way in terms of negative coverage with a fifty three percent rating. On on the flip side the analysis found that Hawaii Democratic Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard was the overwhelming favorite with sixty one in mansions and forty six percent favorable coverage. Our next guest Glyn Watts worked on the analysis and he writes this quote for Russia thus far Biden in two twenty twenty. What Hillary Clinton was to twenty sixteen here for his exclusive report? The aforementioned Clint Watts former FBI special agent a distinguished research fellow at the Foreign Policy Research Institute author of Messing with the enemy surviving in a social media world of hackers terrorists Russians and and fake news Clinton. Thank you for rolling this out here tonight. Thanks for coming on. Why focus on these news outlets and not the traditional twitter addresses the bots and the trolls that drove so much of it in two thousand? Sixteen if you look back four years ago compared to now Russia led the way in disinformation and use of social media. We know a lot about this from the Muller report fast forward to now. There's so much disinformation out on social media platforms. It's very very difficult to parse out. What would be Russia? Iran or China to other countries will will look at in this project or any domestic influence activity. And so. What's remarkable when you look at this going back to the last election and you put Very appropriately in the opening here Vladimir Putin doesn't hide who they like or who they don't like if you read read what the Russian news outlets are putting out what their take is on the different candidates. They'll actually signaled they'll point such that you can then go look and social media and you can try and find where that inauthentic activity is where those might be pushing where that faker manipulated news might be leading. Someone in a direction isn't quite the truth because we're all news consumers. I always ask you when you come on for a consumer guide. What Ca- what does this messaging look like? What are these stories? Look like. What's the tone home? What do they say about Biden that so good so bad and Gabbard that so good for example? Well there's two kinds of bias you can inject it doesn't matter what kind of News L. You're one you can. Just overtly stay bias inside the articles right. You can take a very positive slant or a negative slant or its selection bias. which is you just select stories analogous lex stories which then leads to a framing of a candidate as being positive or negative? What Russia does this quite fascinating as they are much like any? US News outlet. That's out there but they're very. Hey good pushing the corners when you look at those charts I always look at about seventy percent of mentions we'll be neutral and that'd be very consistent with any. US News outlet that you might see where we're always looking at the fringes when you go towards the negative or towards the positive you see that middle number of neutral move in one direction or another. That's where that very slight nick push left or right positive or negative is going for those candidates and so with Biden. It's fascinating not only. Does he show the most overwhelming compared to the rest of the field probably a lot. More percentage wise than what you'd see in the United States it focuses generally on a couple issues one his age and his health very similar to what we saw with Hillary Clinton's health back four years ago and then the other part is Ukraine hundred Biden a that sort of a conspiracy is already there and it echoes. A lot of what the president is talking about in the United States. This time around. They don't really rush. It doesn't need to make fake news or manipulated truce. America's doing plenty of that forum and you see them mostly recycling cycling repurposing specific narratives. This case out of the president and then pushing against spider himself how do they how do they talk up Tulsi Gabbard. They just speak speak to what her issues are but what they're doing is they're actually pushing her and pushing her content talking about or more than you would see typically in the audience base for Russia. They what what she says is perfect for what they want Americans to here. She is pushing against the established Democratic Party. She's army officer with a combat record. She's been over over to Iraq. She is saying that the US should withdraw from foreign battlefields. I think she alluded last debate. That president trump was backing al Qaeda and Syria which is pretty crazy statement to make so all of these things position on Syria visiting the side? These are things that Russia wants support. So it's natural for them to amplify her a her positions. We are not done in fact we are just starting this conversation with you because we've got a long year ahead. Please promised to come back and continue talking. I will and Iran. Ron is up next. We'll do a very similar analysis and we'll also talk about president trump and the Republican candidates using the same exact metrics as well test. I've not fantastic. But you know what I mean Clinton lots thank you so much for coming on coming up for US ahead of this week's public hearings. A smear campaign continues aimed directly only at those witnesses seated at the table more on that when we come back. Hey It's Chris Hayes. Sometimes it's good to just take a step back from the day to day onslaught of news and take a broader. Look at the issues. That's what I'm doing each week. My podcast why is this happening. Were exploring topics ranging ranging from school segregation to climate change. Well the way that I think of it is. Climate Change will be to the twentieth century. What Madeira not was the nineteenth century? It'll be the central subject of of questions about economic justice. Everything you care about in the world will be affected by climate and digging deep with guess uniquely qualified to analyze issues from mass incarceration to race relations as you so for the first time in our history at the national level whites are on the verge of losing their majority status in twenty years. And I think it's no coincidence that our politics are getting more more tribal. Join me for. Why is this happening? New episodes every Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts. Von of it's the target of a smear campaign by Roy Don shower transcripts. The president of Ukraine was not a fan of hers. Either I mean he did not exactly say slowing things squeezing never-trumper his lawyers the head of the never trumpers. They're dying breed but they're still there. Nobody had with all those people very few people that I know came forward and they only came forward when you as and some about them and never trumpers. Colonel is a never-trumper we'll be joined that you real soon. Not Clear what the president was referring hiring to there but he continues to respond to this growing evidence against him with attacks on the impeachment inquiry witnesses that includes an aide to his own vice president. Let's not forget. He called Jennifer Williams never-trumper and suggested she read the summaries he released of two calls with the president of Ukraine. That was his advice. Nice to her Williams who works in the White House was actually on the July call so she can do one better. She's one of nine witnesses scheduled for this week's public hearings with US tonight to talk about all of it Korean jean-pierre chief public affairs officer for move on and Allama of both the Obama campaign and the Obama Obama White House also happens to be the author of the new book. Moving forward a story of hope hard work and the promise of America and Rick Wilson Republican strategist outages due soon to be following up on his first work. Everything trump touches dies with his new work running against the devil due out in early. Twenty twenty good evening and welcome. Come to you both So Rick Wilson Given that lead in. I'm reminded that Senator Ron Johnson. Republican Wisconsin called Vin men a bureaucrat trying to a sabotage the president are the Republicans position changing on the fly. If you're a vulnerable Republican senator and one of your colleagues talking that way. It can't be good for you know you've got you've got to wonder about how far they can push this fairly bogus argument that are members of the secret. Never trump in Kabul. This is a guy who has had honorable and courageous service in the military. He has a serious person. And it reflects terribly on on guys like Ron Johnson. And the and the enabler caucus of Donald trump to try to attack their integrity and attack their history and to try to ascribe for them. You know I've missed colonel. Never trump meeting meeting sorry. Sorry to disappoint the Donald on that one but this is a guy who has seen something and as as have many many other witnesses now and it requires requires this structure that says every single one of these people is a liar and only Donald Trump tells the truth. That's the structure that puts them at risk politically down the line. Corrine a lot of Democrats a lot of folks remember what happened during the Cavanaugh hearings. We remember almost burned into your mind. The concern vases of of the flakes of the world of the Collins of the world. We know how they all voted in the end. What are the chances that this could and in a similar way so I think the difference here? Brian is that the longer that you see The public sees Donald Trump's criminality analogy out in the public kind of in the public as a top story the worse it actually is for Republicans and the better it is for Democrats. There was stories upon stories stories. About how impeachment would hurt Democrats but under Nancy Pelosi's leadership she has kept to the message. made it about the facts not made it about politics. Tuxedo impeachment is a political act. But you don't even see that the case that America have is so strong and what are Republicans are saying their message which is okay. Yes he did it. But it's not impeachable but you don't see that in the polling you. The polling is moving more and more the public opinion towards Democrats. The impeachment impeachment supporting the impeachment inquiry even to a point where they support impeachment and removal. And so this is where we are. And let's not forget about Kentucky Louisiana that has changed this whole game as well. Donald Trump put impeachment on the platform in Kentucky in Louisiana Louisiana Kentucky. Lucky they had ads. The governor. There had Republican governor had ads on impeachment so the the politics on this is changing very very quickly Korean. You're so so right to bring that up the reelection of John Bel Edwards just this weekend Rick is is Bolton testimony. A potential game changer to you if we we see him raise his right hand. I think it's important for two big reasons. The first is John. Bolton is a particular space and the conservative ferment. He is a guy who spans all the way back to the the Reagan era. Frankly even certainly before as a national security Republican he has never been Venal. He's ever been a guy trying to monetize anything. He's never had an agenda except for his belief insecurity. You can disagree with it or not. But that's what John Bolton is. The second thing is highly relevant is. He's the national security advisor to the president of the the United States who is going to have direct first person knowledge of the conversation. He is out there. Saying this is a drug deal is going to the council trying to to to to short circuit. This crazies Giuliani scheme. That trump has insomnia running. He's doing all these things that that are now part of the legal record and if he testifies about them it puts the president very much directly in the centre. We have motive. We have action we have we have. Donald Trump is the impetus for this program. And I think it raises the the stakes significantly for the president Both of our guests have agreed to stay with us over the break when we come back. The Senate Majority leader predicting the the impeachment debate will now stretch into the new year. Twenty twenty more on unlikely collision of priorities in Congress. Let's not forget the campaign trail when we come back. Well I'll tell you this particular point is it. Looks to me like the House is going to be on this until Christmas getting comes over to the Senate displaces all other business. The chief justice of the United States is in the chair. Senators are not allowed to speak if to sit there and I'm not sure how long it will go on. I don't know how much longer guess it depends on. How many more witnesses they have you expect that to be wrapped wrapped up before the end of the had? No idea again. I don't have any timetable for that. No will anyone notice if it displaces all other Senate business we hasten listen to ask House and Senate leadership there seem to agree on one thing. It is unlikely. The impeachment inquiry will be over by the end of this year could could still be well underway deep into the twenty twenty primary season. Here's how the calendar or shaping up by the way. There are forty three days until the end of 2019. Three days until government funding runs out. That's expected to get an extension C.. Kicking the can down the road and the Thanksgiving recess starts three days after that. It's twenty seven days until the end of year recess when the House and Senate go home until after the New Year air and seventy seven days from now. The Iowa caucuses back with US colleen. Joan Pierre and Rick Wilson Corinne. What should we remake of this and this is where I ask you if Democrats can walk and Chew Gum? There are a number of Democrats in this race with seats in one one of these houses. Yeah I think Democrats can walk into them. I think that's why public opinion is moving towards the Democrats argument because they're putting together a strong case of I stated before it's funny to hear Mitch McConnell Talking about the Senate business. When he calls his goals he calls his Senate the Graveyard Democrats Democrats have passed more than three hundred pieces of legislation? And a lot of it. All of it really sitting on the desk of Mitch McConnell so Mitch. McConnell is playing with the weak hand in his head only gets weaker. Brian what are the things that Republicans and trump want Mitch. McConnell to do is they want him to do one of these show trials for two days and be done with it but he can't do that because he knows that he's not going to get the vote and he has those vulnerable senators that no that the charges charges that are being accused of being accused of Donald trump are serious and a show. Trial would hurt them. So I think Dahmer Democrats actually have the strong hand on this and it's interesting just to see how week for the first time you see. McConnell is in this in the space working make the case. Yes I know you can make about McConnell and those vulnerable Republican Senators Bryan. I think what's the number one factor whether Donald trump lives or dies is politically speaking. Is Mitch McConnell Waking Up one morning and looking at the polling in Maine and Colorado in Arizona and other places and saying we're GONNA lose majority and if he thinks he's going to lose the majority. This will flip over in a hot minute. The only thing Mitch McConnell cares about preserving his majority in the Senate he doesn't Donald Trump could be is set on fire. And and Mitch McConnell would stand there and go. Oh I'm keeping my dirty good could deal. That's all over. Look like would he give a signal that a vote to remove is he would allow he would allow some of these people that he's kept in check and they are in that category of of Republicans. You would think would be right on this issue because they are people who have some integrity. We kept them very strongly in line saying our base will destroy us if we don't do this if we don't defend him at every turn these guys and I don't want even name them in part because we can name Mitt Romney obvious but there are guys that you would look at ordinarily and say the people with integrity you say Rob Portman for example. The folks like that who ordinarily would be people that that would reject. This is kind of criminal behavior outright and call him out on. It are not going to be in a position of Mitch McConnell. Let's breaks off where they feel as restrained as they do you if it looks like it's GonNa if the public numbers of move where the Republicans you to lose the majority games over Corinne you have me thinking about your mention of both Kentucky and Louisiana. Of course you're in the turnout business really. Do you think this will well and Power Democrats. You heard a lot of self criticism. After the last election that their ground game was week that they weren't going state and local. They were looking looking at racist feeling intimidated and not not deciding not to play. Do you think this will build upon itself absolutely if you look at the political result zolt electoral results in two thousand seventeen and twenty eighteen and now twenty nineteen there is. There is a turning point here. You have the the suburban areas you have a would turn out. It was a coalition if you think about it the suburban areas and black voters in Kentucky and Louisiana coming out and if I'm I'm the Republicans I'm very worried about losing in these two very deep deep red states and I think that there is a reason for Democrats to be encouraged. I think you have voters off their voters. Who voted for trump in two thousand sixteen now turning around in off year? Election saying enough is enough. We are done here and now twenty twenty is right around the corner. Rick Wilson the thirty seconds we have left explain to people that being a Louisiana Democrat. Crat would get you membership in the Republican Party in most other states pretty much Louisiana was a red state. Trending more red particularly after Katrina and this large accidents of African American voters. This this was a place where the we're flying into the rally on paper should have been a great idea. And if it had been President Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio present. Ted Cruz probably worked but right now it's donald trump who has a negative activation potential with everybody he he sees it. Look if I were if I were the Democrats I'd pay the gas cold air force. One is a good do rallies targeting seats because it is not working out like they think it does our thanks to two of our friends. Rick Wilson and Corinne. Johm Pierre. Thank you so much for coming on tonight. The eleventh hour continues right after this before we go tonight. Some reminders for you. Our special coverage of Tuesday's impeachment hearings begins just about exactly nine hours from from now nine. Am Sharp tomorrow morning eastern time Wednesday a more consequential day the normal starts with Sunlen testimony in the morning and then that evening we turn to the law firm of Mitchell Meadow welker and Parker the four moderators for the democratic debate nine eastern time. I'm out of Atlanta and then coverage post-debate right here. We'll be here with you for the entire day for now. That is our broadcast for this Monday. Night right as we start off a new week. Thank you for being here with us. Good night from our NBC News headquarters here in New York. HEY MSNBC listeners. It's me Chuck Rosenberg this week. On the oath I sit down with Roberta Jacobson. The former United States ambassador to Mexico on a day to day basis candidate in Mexico Sokaia affect more citizens of the United States than perhaps anywhere else in the world. Roberta Jacobson has spent her professional life in service to the United States. In her. Or case by advancing its interests abroad responsible for the operation of the US embassy in Mexico and for the crucial relationship with our large and vibrant neighbor to the south. It's very much bringing America to the world and bringing the world back to America. Please join me for that conversation with Roberta Jacobson the a former United States ambassador to Mexico. That's this week on M._S._N._B._C.'s. The oath available now wherever you get your podcasts.

president Donald Trump United States trump Ukraine Robert Muller Joe Biden President Jeb Bush Russia White House New York Brian White House Peter Baker Congress New York Times Ambassador Bolton State Department Jennifer Williams
What Iowa Democrats *say* they want in a nominee

Meet the Press: The Lid

03:34 min | 2 years ago

What Iowa Democrats *say* they want in a nominee

"Welcome to the lead from meet the press. I'm Carrie, Dan. If you are a regular listener of the lid, you know, that horse race polls are not always my favorites. If front runners were set in stone this early before a presidential election presidents Rudy Giuliani, Hillary Clinton, and Jeb Bush, and Scott Walker would have a lot to say about it. But that's does not mean that polls that contain horserace contents. Do not contain other useful information too. So I will blow by the stencil Democratic Front runner in the newest demoain register poll, though, it is a certain seventy six year old who enjoys aviator sunglasses and the word Varkey. And instead look at what this poll tells us about what Democrats in Iowa seem to want points. The first Democrats in Iowa want to hear a positive message rather than hearing about Trump. Well, at least they say they do. Eighty three percent say they want a candidate who will quote, focus on harnessing Democrats positive energy to unite the country while just thirteen percent say they want someone who will quote, harness Democrats anger to defeats Donald Trump. Oh and only about one in five say they want to hear a lot about impeaching the president. It may be worth. Remembering here that I wa is of Trump country. It went for Obama in two thousand and two thousand twelve but it swung hard for Trump by nine points in two thousand sixteen points. The seconds. I will Democrats are pretty progressive on policy the green new deal and new taxes on the wealthy are very popular among Iowa Democrats majority say for both of those plans. Yes, we are on board, and we fully support doing the whole thing right away. There's a little bit more ambivalent about Medicare for all about half of Iowa. Democrats say yes, I support it fully another thirty five percent SIA. But let's take. Steps towards that rather than the whole shebang. But overwhelmingly Democrats in Iowa say they really want their candidates to spend a lot of time talking about healthcare and climate change point the third. They are still a little worried about candidates who may be seen as to progressive while Bernie Sanders does well in the poll overall just shy of half of I say his views are too liberal and about four in ten say his time has passed and he should not be in the race. By the way, about a third say that about Joe Biden, while two-thirds say heck, yeah, we want him in this contest. So what are your takeaways from this poll this three hundred and twenty nine days before the Iowa caucuses, but who's counting? It's it's a mixed bag. But these do look like good numbers for Biden. Maybe a little bit less over for Bernie. And there's a decent opening for a candidate who can talk a lot progressive and a little bit pragmatic and. Have an uplifting message no-brainer, right, easy peasy. Right. We will definitely not all look like fools when something unpredictable happens and blows up all of these theories way before the I've Akaka says, I'm all right? Just ask president Jeb Bush about that and police clap that's a live for us if you'd like to hear more of this free audio briefing, you can add meet the press the lid to your flash briefings on Amazon Alexa, enabled devices or just download us as a free podcast.

Iowa Donald Trump Jeb Bush Bernie Sanders Joe Biden president Rudy Giuliani Dan Obama Hillary Clinton Akaka Amazon Medicare Scott Walker Eighty three percent thirty five percent seventy six year
Wednesday, April 3, 2019

Up First

13:55 min | 2 years ago

Wednesday, April 3, 2019

"Some migrants who overcrowded federal facilities are simply released on the street. There were very cold. They said that paramedics were there because they were babies and women what drives families to make a dangerous journey. I'm Steve Inskeep. David green. And this is up. I from NPR news. Chicago's newly elected mayor wants people born in poor neighborhoods not to become poor adults. We can. Can make Sakado a place where your sip code doesn't determine your destiny. What's Laurie life? What's plan for the midwest, metropolis and democratic presidential candidates are announcing early fundraising among others, Bernie Sanders and Kamala Harris, raise millions. What's it mean that Pete Buddha? Judge has will say with us. We have the news you need to start your day. Support for this NPR podcast and the following message. Come from Exxon Mobil, the company working to make carbon capture technology more efficient and affordable. So it can be deployed at industrial sites worldwide. Find out more at energy factor dot com. What does the flow of migrants really look like at the US southern border. Got a reminder in recent days that what US officials call a crisis is a mixture of reality and also political stagecraft last week. President Trump threatened to close the border that threat seized headlines. Just like his previous threats to do the same thing. Once again officials have now backed off that threat, at least for the moment, they say Mexico is stepping up to help with the influx of Silom applicants, but it is true that US border officials are receiving large large numbers of people, which you've been watching David. So what you've been saying? Yeah. I mean, you, you know, Steve we've been talking about the focal point was a bridge that runs from Juarez Mexico here into El Paso now the area under that bridge has been cleared. They've moved a lot of migrants to an area of tents nearby. But there were these images of families from Central America being held behind barbed wire there, and even though that area has been move. No one is suggesting that the rate of border apprehensions. The the numbers of people crossing is going to slow down anytime. So what is driving those numbers? Well, you know. Yes. Different people you hear different people emphasized different things. US officials say that smugglers in Central America are really active right now. I mean, they're marketing themselves to families and Honduras, and El Salvador and Guatemala saying that the US border is essentially open to families who arrive with their own children. And that's really important thing. To know if you bring your own child with you, you are generally being processed within a few days and set free in the United States with a court date scheduled so word seems to be spreading about that. And Steve also tell you I spoke to our colleague John Burnett who is reporting as we speak in Mexico right near the border with Guatemala. He says there's been a lot of information spreading on social media suggesting to people that President Trump could close the border at any moment. The message being if you're going to make this trip. Now is the time to do it. Oh. So the president's regular threats that get headlines to close the border may actually drive people to hurry up and make make the journey. But when people get where you are and end up under a bridge detention center out on the street are they saying they made the right decision. I think they're grappling with that. I mean, we've been hearing from some asylum seekers who just didn't seem to to grasp how difficult the journey is including after they're they're crossing into the United States. What did we spoke to one man from Honduras? He we're not gonna give his name for security reasons. But it was at a church here, El Paso, he was with his two kids a girl eleven years old boy twelve and he his family had been held under that bridge for four days after an eighteen day BUSTER from from Honduras, guess below the sake. What Leo hip I spent four days under the bridge. And then they took me to jail. It was very cold place. We were on the cold floor. If I knew we would be going through all these. I have not come money's not everything in life. But we're risking lot for our children and for the future. Are you hearing a lot of people saying they wish they had made the journey. I wouldn't I wouldn't say a lot. I mean, many families they look exhausted. But really relieved to be here and getting help from nonprofit groups and shelters one Salvadoran mom, we met. I mean, she made this extraordinary journey walking some of the way through Mexico just in torn socks you had a five month old son who nearly died. I mean fever vomiting someone asked her like, why would you do that? How dare you bring a baby through this experience? And she said the gang violence was so awful in El Salvador. She just had no choice. Okay. David, thanks for your reporting there. And let's move on now to some other news. News about Lori Lightfoot who was a relative unknown in Chicago politics until recently, she had never held elective office. And when she announced a campaign for mayor last year, she was in a crowded scrum of fourteen candidates. Have it in last night? She made history she secured victory in the nation's third largest city. The former federal prosecutor who worked in police oversight is becoming the first black woman and openly gay person to win this office. And she spoke to her supporters after the results were announced when we started this journey eleven months ago. Nobody gave us much of a chance. We are up against powerful interest a powerful machine and a powerful mayor. But I remembered something Martin Luther King said when I was very young faith. He said is taking the first step when you can't see the staircase. Well, we couldn't see the whole staircase where we started this journey, but we had faith and abiding faith in his city. It's people and it is future. The mayor Lightfoot is speaking of is, of course, Rahm Emanuel his popularity suffered in his second. And final term. He was grappling with the city's financial woes and also increasingly volatile relationship between the police and the black community NPR's, Cheryl corley has been covering the story from Chicago, Cheryl, good morning. Good morning. How did this person emerged from that crowded field of fourteen candidates? Well, Steve it was just incredible. As you mentioned Lori Lightfoot to never help lyrical office. She has held a variety positions in city government though, and Rama manual actually appointed Lightfoot at the Chicago police board the independent agency that rules on disciplinary cases up police and Lightfoot began this journey in part because of a twenty fourteen fatal shooting of a black. Teenager Liquan McDonald by white police officer it spurred a lot of protests in Chicago, the ouster of a lot of city officials and led to Lightfoot declaring run for mayor and she promised to get rid of city hall corruption and to help low income and working class people. And and that kind of made an impact she promised to make change. And when mayor Emanuel decided not to seek a third term, lots of other people declared a run for mayor after that as you mentioned fourteen people all and Lori Lightfoot was one of the top vote getters along with Toni preckwinkle who is the chairman of the Democratic Party here. And let me just ask your Cheryl corley. If I can how is it that the mayor elect intends to address this closely followed relationship between the city and its police. Well, she was chair of a police accountability task force which really black. Last the police department and and lead to a department of Justice investigation and during the campaign, she promised to adhere to a consent decree which came out of the department of Justice investigation, which was at least spurred by and that calls for a detailed list of reforms and Lori Lightfoot says is going to take a lot and and that consent decree calls for more training for police. But she says there is another fact that must not be ignored when it comes to how officers act in particular neighborhoods. Here's what she had to say. We also know that if our police officers are culture illiterate, which stems from the fact that we are live in one of the most segregated cities in the country. We recruit from the Saudi graded neighborhoods, and we do not adequately in my view deal. With the fact that race matters in policing, Cheryl. Didn't the mayor also talk about fighting entrenched poverty. And segregated neighborhoods. Yes. She did. She says she's going to focus on investing in neighborhoods in impoverished areas, particularly on the west and south sides of the city and not just on the city's downtown. You know, one of the biggest things she's going to have to deal with though are the serious financial problems at the city faces. There's a projected two hundred fifty two million dollar budget deficit for fiscal year twenty twenty and a twenty eight billion dollar, unfunded pension liability that must be addressed. So she comes into office facing a really dire financial situation and Cheryl corley in Chicago, which has a new mayor elect, Lori Lightfoot, Cheryl, thanks so much. You're welcome. Okay. Takes votes to win an election. But it takes money to compete for them in this week. We have new fundraising details from high profile Democrats. That's right. These numbers are for the first quarter of the year. The Bernie Sanders campaign Tuesday announced that it raised more than eighteen million dollars from half a million donors, comma, Harris, raise twelve million and south bend, Indiana. Mayor Pete Buddha judge largely unknown before his presidential campaign announcement has taken in seven million dollars NPR national political correspondent Mara Liasson has been following the money primary. Hey there Mara. Hi, steve's. Oh, we mentioned a couple of high profile numbers there. What stands out to you? Well, all those numbers are pretty eye-popping shows you the enthusiasm of the democratic base. They're willing to open their wallets. But I would say Bernie Sanders of all the declared candidates is the front runner not only in polling, but now in fundraising eighteen million dollars half a million. Donors that is a tremendous amount. Now history tells us the Democratic Front runners don't usually stay that way. But that's where he is today. Well, I'm thinking about the different ways that people talk about fundraising and politics, you will say the person who raised the most is the front runner in a way other candidates will say you don't need to raise the most which you need to raise enough. How much does the money really matter? Well, money matters. Of course, he's raised the most and he's at the top of the polls right now. But if you ask president, Jeb Bush, if a lot of money matters, you'll find out that it doesn't really make the difference. But if money, we should remind thousand sixteen right? It's a sign of grassroots support. It is very important. And it's not a guarantee that you're going to be the nominee. But it means you can scale up your operations, and especially if you're raising money and small amounts. You can go back to those people again. And again, you know, there would be a time in presidential prime. Mary's where we would presume looking from the outside that it's bad for a party to have a fragmented field and a huge number of candidates. But are there Democrats who were looking at this as promising to have so many people who are who are all strong, and fundraising and clearly have strong support base building up. Yes. Absolutely. It's a sign as I said of overall democratic enthusiasm people are turning out for these events to see the candidate they're willing to open their wallets. It shows you that the democratic base is energized and willing to do more than just cast a vote they're willing to give money and work. How does that compare to President Trump's fundraising? Well, President Trump has raised a tremendous amount of money. He's the first president to raise money in his first two years by the end of twenty eight teen. The Trump campaign had raised about sixty eight million dollars to additional political action committees that function as joint fundraising committees with the Republican party had raised an additional one hundred million. So that is a tremendous amount of money shows you the. Power of incumbents. It's one of the reasons why it's so hard to beat an incumbent president recent memory only to have been defeated Jimmy Carter and George H on book. I'm also looking at this figure. The president is not only raised almost sixty eight million dollars. It said that he's spent well over fifty million dollars already in the early phases. Promoting his reelection, right Mara. Thanks so much. Thank you. That's NPR's. Mara liasson. And that's I this Wednesday, April third. I'm Steve Inskeep. And I'm David Greene. We hope you start your day back with us here tomorrow. You can subscribe to us wherever you listen to your podcasts and favor. If you've got a few minutes, this would help us a lot rate us and review on apple buckets. Remember that your NPR station makes up first possible each morning, they support this network, and you support them you can find out more by going to donate dot NPR dot org slash up. I. Auditioning for the net. Flicks of queer eye was kind of like trying out for a boy band. Oh, it was just import man like they've bought two hundred gays in a room and rely fight. Romo Brown on the fat five this week on. It's been a minute NPR.

Steve Inskeep Lori Lightfoot president Chicago Cheryl corley President Trump NPR NPR US Bernie Sanders Mexico mayor Emanuel Mara Liasson Pete Buddha Central America Kamala Harris David green Exxon Mobil Sakado David
Mon. 04/15  Mayor Pete Brings the Heat

Primary Ride Home

20:28 min | 2 years ago

Mon. 04/15 Mayor Pete Brings the Heat

"Primary ride home for Monday, April fifteenth nineteen I'm your host Chris Evans today. Judge makes it official. Cory Booker returns to Newark for a rally explainer on what the differences between a presidential exploratory committee and actually running for president moron campaign fundraising. Everybody's favorite and comma Harris wins the prize for most tax returns released. Here's what you missed today on the campaign trail. On a rainy Palm Sunday Buddha. Judge held a rally in south bend Indiana to officially announce his candidacy for president. Now, if you're saying, yeah, I thought he was already running. Well, I'll have a short explained earlier in this show where address exactly that question point being he held a big rally, and yes, he is running the event was held in an old Studebaker plant with a leaky roof the campaign had planned for it to be outdoors. But when weather forecasts called for rain, and they were super right about that the campaign tros Studebaker building eighty four and not even the main part of the building which was actually now being transformed into kind of a tech incubator with office space. Yeah. No, they used a train doc in the back, which is basically a giant leaky warehouse. The train doc did need some cleanup work to hold the four thousand five hundred twenty six people at drew inside plus outside and other fifteen hundred plus people stood in the rain for our. Hours Huda judge and his husband Chaston did go outside to address that crowd who literally hung out in a parking lot for hours in the rain following along as best. They could judge told them, quote, I'm impressed by all those inside. But I am moved by those of you outside and quote inside even after all the preparation building. Eighty four was visibly wet the speakers on the small stage, including the candidate himself stood at a wet podium with wet teleprompters as drops of rain slowly soaked their suits and shirts from the leaky roof. And honestly, nobody seemed to mind much at one point early in the event to campaign staffers asked people both in the room and across the country to send a text message to a special number, and in response robot with text you back and ask things like whether you're currently watching the announcement where you were watching it from and eventually it did ask for donation, but. By doing that, not only to the campaign, gather donations. He got a vast list of cell phone numbers from it's hard core. Supporters more on how that worked out at the end of this story. The rally included more than our of guest speakers leading up to the main event those included three mayors from cities across the country, plus various, teachers, and mentors and men teas and religious leaders from moody judges life. There was a presentation of the colors by the local fire department arrestation of the pledge of allegiance and an cappella rendition of the national anthem by Janet Norris, who by the way, totally nailed it, those initial speakers repeated a variety of messages in their own words, but the ones stuck out to me were the many arguments that being mayor of a small city is actually good political prep for higher office since as a mayor. There's nowhere to hide you live among your constituents and you have to listen to them. The speakers also repeatedly emphasize. Used generational change. Suggesting basically that it's time to start thinking seriously about electing a millennial candidate another key rhetorical point was that Buddha. Judge is smart. This came up a lot. You heard that from his teachers and other people who've known him all his life at one point Steve Adler, the mayor of Austin, Texas asked quote, wouldn't it be great? If we had a president who is smart like really, really smart who speaks multiple languages, including beautiful command of English, and quote, and yes that line brought down the house Adler later added, quote, someone who listens and actually answers questions. And in those answers teaches us something someone who we'd want our children to emulate someone who rallies are better souls, and quote, and then finally Adler introduced the candidate himself who'd adjudge came in to the wet podium dressed simply and a light blue button up shirt with the cuffs rolled up plus a tie. A contrast to the many women and men who had spoken just before him with suits on. But also, that's his typical day-to-day campaign outfit, and he had just been outside. Bundled up for the rain and his campaign staff apparently had this second dry outfit on hand for the occasion. And it did not stay dry for long to judge spoke for roughly forty minutes, and there's a transcript of his remarks in the show notes along with video of the event. If you wanna check that out his main themes as usual were not specific policy ideas like numbers and stuff, but rather matters of principle that would eventually lead to specific policies. Huda judge said quote changes coming ready or not the question of our time is whether families and workers will be defeated by the changes beneath us, or whether we will master them and make them work toward a better everyday life for us, all and a moment calls for hopeful and audacious voices from communities like ours. And yes, it calls for a new generation of leadership in this country the principles that will guide. My campaign are simple enough to fit on a bumper sticker freedom security and democracy, and quote, he went on to define what he meant by those three principles, for instance, under the broad heading of freedom. Here's a big chunk of what he said, this is a long one quote healthcare is freedom because you're not free. If you can't start a small business because leaving your job would mean, losing your healthcare. Consumer protection is freedom because you're not free. If you can't sue your credit card company, even after they got caught ripping you off racial Justice is freedom because you're not free. If there is a veil of mistrust between people of color and the officers sworn to keep us safe empowering teachers means freedom because you're not free in your own classroom. If your ability to do your job is reduced to a number on a page. Women's equality is freedom because you're not free. If you reproductive-health choices are dictated by male politicians or bosses organized labor so's freedom because you're not free. If it can't organize for a fair day's pay for a good day's work and take it from Chaston me. You are certainly not free. If a county clerk gets to tell you who you oughta marry based on your political beliefs. The chance to live a life of your choosing. And keeping with your values that is freedom in its richest sense. And we know that good government can secure such freedom just as much as bad government can deny it and quote. One more quick moment from the speech one of the most moving lines had to do with the June twenty-sixth twenty fifteen supreme court decision requiring that all states allow same sex marriage and all states recognize same sex. Marriages granted in other states. That was if you'll recall a five to four decision by the court judge said, quote, our marriage exists by the grace of single vote on the US supreme court nine men and women sat down in a room and took a vote and neighbor out me the most important freedom in my life and quote. The event ended with Creedence Clearwater revival. Song up and around the bend playing as Pete and Chaston Buddha. Judge walked through the crowd shaking hands with people taking pictures and speaking to reporters one clip that went semi viral on Twitter shows Buddha. Judge speaking in pretty fluent Spanish to reporter for a Spanish language channel. Just four hours later. The campaign's communications advisor Lee Smith announced on Twitter that Buddha judge had raised more than one million dollars in new campaign donations since the speech began. So apparently that texting thing totally worked. The primary ride home is brought to you by anchor this show, the when you're hearing right now, we'll I put it together on anchor. What is anchor you mask? Well, it's a service that gives you all the tools you need to record at it slice and dice your podcast and post it all for free. You can use anchor right from your phone seriously. If you're in the field, and you've got a phone fire up the anchor app, and you can start making your podcast, right then. And there it's also when your computer pull up a web browser, and boom, you are making a podcast the results. Sound great profile e stuff like you are listening to this show. Right now sounds great. Right. This ad and the whole show was recorded on anchor for free. I'm not paying hosting costs. And that's a bargain anchor. Distributes your podcast everywhere. Your audience wants to listen, I'm talking Spotify, apple podcast, Google podcasts. Overcast you can also make money from your podcast with no minimums on anchor. They bring the ads to you. So download the anchor or good anchor dot FM to get started. Again, anchor dot F M and there's an app for it too. On saturday. Cory Booker returned to his hometown of Newark, New Jersey, billed as a campaign kickoff. The event drew four thousand people and Booker evoked the famous letter from Birmingham jail by Dr Martin Luther King junior by saying, quote, we are here today to say we can't wait and quote king's letter, by the way, said in part quote for years now, I've heard the word wait it rings in the ear of every negro with piercing familiarity. This weight has almost always meant never we must come to see with one of our distinguished jurists. That Justice too long delayed is Justice denied and quote. And here's more from Booker at the rally, quote, we can't wait when powerful forces are turning their prejudice into policy and rolling back the rights that generations of Americans fought for and heroes died for we can. Can't wait. When this administration is throwing children fleeing violence into cages banning Muslims from entering the nation. Founded on religious liberty and preventing brave transgender Americans from serving the country they love and quote Booker used this rally as a kickoff for his Justice for all tour across America and more on that as it happens. So when people to judge held in event to announce that he's running for president. I had this moment of confusion. I mean, he's already running for president. Right. Like he raised seven million dollars in the first quarter of this year. We've known about this guy for months, he's definitely a candidate. So how come on April fourteenth? He holds this huge event and says, oh, hey, check it out. Big news. I'm running for president. All right, what time to define the difference between an exploratory committee for presidential run and an actual declared candidacy for president. I just want to say up front. The main source I found on this the best one the thing you should read. If you want to know more is Dylan Scott's article in vox from earlier this year. It is the best explainer I've ever seen and it clears up a lot about this issue. Here's a bit. From Scott's article, quote when the words exploratory committee flick across your Twitter stream or TV screen. It means two things one. This person is almost definitely running for president. To they wanna raise some money and get their campaign together before they formally announced that they are a candidate and quote. Okay. So that makes sense you start looking into running. And I guess if it looks good you jump all the way in. However this next bit explains why that's not quite how it works in the real world anymore. Quote, one side benefit candidates get to new cycles in the all important bid to raise their profile with voters. They'll get headlines once for the committee news, and then again for the formal announcement. In other words, exploratory is a bit of a misnomer in the presidential context. I asked a handful of election experts, and nobody could name a notable person who established an exploratory committee, and then declined to announce as a candidate if you're exploring your running and quote, okay? So here's the deal. There is no legal distinction between an exploratory committee and campaign committee. It is. The same thing with the same paperwork. Just the word exploratory in the name of one of them. But not the other one any exploratory committee can take donations can run polls can pay for travel with that money. They are running. Now having said that in the old days, they used to be a thing called a testing the waters committee, which actually was different you filed different paperwork with fewer disclosures. And it was truly away to test the waters for a possible run. But that went away after a change in federal law in the year two thousand now just like the vox story says all this functionally means is that the exploratory thing allows to opera -tunities to get media. Attention read, the story Lincoln the show notes for more. All right. Good news and bad news on fundraising. Good news today. Also known as tax day is the deadline for presidential candidates to submit the amount of money. They raised in the first three months of the year to the Federal Election Commission or F E C. So the good news is after today, the FCC will have that data, and we can report on it as soon as they push it back out. There's a link in the show notes to the F E C web page where they break down who has brought in what so far the bad news is that the submissions are happening today. So the data isn't actually posted online yet later this week once the data is posted. Oh, you better believe we're gonna get into some more analysis, but I will make that fun. I promise. In the meantime of bunch of candidates have told the media what they're fundraising numbers are now presumably only candidates who have pretty good numbers would bother to do this. So here's a breakdown of what I know right now on the morning of April fifteenth, and this may have changed by the time you hear this in. The top spot is Bernie Sanders with eighteen point two million dollars. Second place is comma Harris with twelve million third place better Aurora with nine point four million fourth place. Pete Buddha judge with seven million fifth place. Elizabeth Warren with six million six place. Amy clo- char with five point two million seventh-place Cory Booker with five million eighth place Kirsten gillibrand with three million ninth place. Andrew Yang with one point seven million and intense place Hooghly on Castro with one point one million. Now, if you add that all up and keep in mind, they're still like eight ish major candidates who have not yet reported their numbers to the media that total raise for Q one that we know about right now is sixty eight point six million dollars. Now, this raises the question how much did Donald Trump raise in Q one this year because he's? Going to be up against somebody in this field. Well, he beat every individual candidate handily. But if you take the democratic primary field in combination, of course, the Democrats are donating a lot more Trump told the media that he brought in thirty million dollars in Q one, and that's on top of roughly sixty seven million dollars. He's raised throughout his candidacy slash presidency. Much of which he has already spent keep in mind, he's been running for re election since the day, he took office. But here's a twist the Republican National Committee told CBS news that it has raised forty five point eight million dollars in the first quarter. And presumably, you know, a lot of that money goes to re electing Trump as well, plus other Republicans in rhesus for you know, congress and stuff like that. So as we wait for the official totals. I wanna help you understand both the mood and the meaning of all this money stuff. And the best statement of that affect that. I've heard so far comes from NPR national political. Respondent Mara Liasson. Here's part of what she said on the NPR politics podcasts on April third, quote, Democrats are excited they're enthusiastic and they're willing to open their wallets. I think the overall fundraising the fact that it is so spread out tell the Democrats are very invested and energized about this field. I think it tells you a little bit less about drawing from these numbers to who's gonna win the nomination the person who raises the most money early on doesn't necessarily get the nomination. Just ask president Jeb Bush end quote. And finally today. More tax stuff, you know, it's tax day. I gotta do more tax stuff. All right. If you're a regular listener, you'll know that I'm a little bit obsessed with candidates releasing their tax returns. And until recently Elizabeth Warren led the field with eleven years of tax returns released then Amy klobuchar beat that with twelve years of returns. But now comma Harris has taken the crown releasing fifteen full years of her tax returns, including her return for twenty eighteen she has gone all the way back to the early two thousand when she was the DA in San Francisco. So the first thing here is always alright how much this candidate make last year, meaning how rich or not rich is this person in this next bit. I'm relying on reporting from time magazine by wanna summers Allan Suter men and Stephen Braun. So in Harris case, she's filing jointly with her husband. Doug 'em Hoff who just by himself raked in about one point five million dollars working as an attorney. Any in twenty eighteen we can safely push that aside for now. But it's interesting to note that all of these candidates who are married and filing jointly are revealing significant financial details about their spouses. That's just how it works. Okay. So what Harris make herself last year while her salaries a Senator brought in about one hundred fifty seven thousand dollars, not bad. Plus, she brought in another three hundred twenty thousand dollars in net income from her various books, including a newly released one that's doing really well. So the couple combined brought in an adjusted gross income of more than one point nine million dollars last year and to be clear the great majority of that is from Harris's husband. They paid about seven hundred thousand dollars in federal taxes and donated twenty seven thousand dollars to charity now we are still waiting for the promised release of decades worth of tax returns from Bernie Sanders. He recently promised that. We would see those today. Day, April fifteenth. So by the time you hear this. I hope those of come out and I can dig into those tomorrow. That's it for their episode of the primary ride home. I've been your host Chris again, you can find me on Twitter at Chris Hogan's we've got a big week coming up. And I am glad to have you with me on the ride talk y'all tomorrow.

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2020 Update: First Quarter Fundraising, What The Numbers Tell Us And What They Don't

NPR Politics Podcast

19:51 min | 2 years ago

2020 Update: First Quarter Fundraising, What The Numbers Tell Us And What They Don't

"It guess what? What Scott big news doing another live podcast on the road? We're going to be in Philadelphia. In fact, we are going to be there on April twenty-sixth to record a live podcast onstage all about the twenty twenty election. We just did this Lanta. It was great. But here is the catch. We need your help to make sure it's the best podcast possible. And the way to do that is to head over to NPR presents dot org and grab a ticket to be in the audience. That's Friday, April twenty six in Philadelphia. We'll see you there. Hi. This is Catherine calling from Oakland, California, where I am sending outside of the Alameda courthouse where I'm just going into jury duty doing my civic duty. You're listening to NPR politics podcast, which was recorded at eleven oh nine AM on Wednesday, April third keep in mind that things may have changed by the time. You hear it? Keep up with all of NPR's political coverage on the NPR one up NPR dot org. And of course, your local station, which for me. Is Q E. Okay. Here's the show. I have never been chosen for jury duty. I've been called in three times and never chosen. How about you as I can get out of it? I've been I've been called once and dismissed we're all gonna go tomorrow for tips. Either. It's the NPR politics podcast. I'm Kelsey Snell. I cover congress Montenero political editor, I'm Mara Liasson, national political correspondent, and we're here to talk about money campaign money first quarter for campaign fundraising ended on March thirty first and slowly. But surely candidates are releasing how much money they've raised so far and who says they have raised what Dominica the quarter ended on Sunday March thirty first so that's when a lot of the campaigns. They know that they've locked in a certain amount of money. They have to report to the Federal Election Commission by April fifteenth so between now, and then what we're going to get is essentially campaigns. Putting a political number out to say, this is how much money they raised. This is how well they're doing. And the candidates we hear from want some kind of momentum. So who has said what they raised? Well, so far the biggest number that we've seen has come from. Bernie sanders. Sanders is raised eighteen point two million dollars from some nine hundred thousand contributions. Almost a million which is what their goal was that came up a little short of that they liked to humble brag on their phone call about how they come up to a little short. But we wanted to set in vicious goals. Don't we all? Yeah. That's how I think about working out dieting. So they got though individual contributions from about five hundred twenty five thousand people twenty percent of those were new and they said about twenty thousand of those were Republicans. So that's one we've heard from three people so far who else is out. There comma Harris, the Senator from California said she's raised twelve million dollars big state. She knows a lot of big donors and the big surprise was south bend, the anime or Buddha. Judge who raised seven million dollars a pretty big amount for a guy who not a lot of people knew frankly before he even did the CNN town hall a few weeks ago where he gained even half a million more, Twitter, followers, and apparently lots of donations. People have been calling that what the Buddha judge bump or the Buddha judge buzz. He's probably developed more buzzed firms. Than any other candidate impressed a lot of people in the town halls. He's kind of the it candidate right now. Yeah. And I had one democratic strategist told me that in the end, maybe Buddha. Judge isn't the guy who wins. And maybe Elizabeth Warren isn't the person who wins. But when it comes to both of these candidates, whoever the eventual nominee is will have their head filled with mostly Buddha, judge, Warren ideas. Well, I'm really glad you mentioned Elizabeth Warren because Mara. Why are we only seeing three people? They are not the only three people running for president as we know from just watching TV I think that we can rest assured that if some of the other candidates had I- popping numbers like these. They would also be releasing them in advance of April fifteenth. Elizabeth Warren has lagged in fundraising. She hasn't been able to raise the big amounts that Bernie Sanders had even though she has been around. Now, she hasn't run before one of the reasons that Bernie Sanders could raise the money. He did is not only does he have a devoted following. But. He has an incredible list because he ran before you have to have an infrastructure to raise money, she didn't have that. But she's also been considered a kind of fundraising disappointment. And she has decided as Dominica mentioned. She is doing the kind of one on one private fundraisers big money. She's not going to do that. Maybe that was just out of convenience, and she wasn't doing very well in that anyway, but it did cause a rift in her campaign with some of her aides who felt that was a bad idea. Well, some of it could be her policies. I mean, if you look at the fact that she more than almost any other candidate has basically said, I've got all of the regulations lined up. I know exactly where I wanna go. I know exactly how I want to tweak up the SEC, for example, the securities and Exchange Commission to go and regulate Wall Street. Well, a lot of money that goes to campaigns comes from big donors on Wall Street, and she only raised about three hundred thousand dollars in her first partial day running. As a candidate. And you know, look, let's see if she winds up doing better. But the thing is with such a crowded field. And Bernie Sanders really having taken the limelight of sort of the progressive grassroots base. He's really been able to supercharge that energy and a lot of people wondering if Warren may have Mr. chance in two thousand sixteen because she was the progressive star and really seated that mantle to Bernie Sanders right in that lane in that progressive lane. If it's a Warren versus Sanders fight so far he's winning so far so far I want to go back to a little bit more about who these donors are and what we know about them. But I I want to ask what about the opposite side of this. We heard really big numbers from Beddoe aerobic on his first day of fundraising day, we haven't seen his first quarter. So is it possible that you know, people are holding things back because they want to come out with a big bang. Well, or it could be that. It's not a lot. Yeah. Mara said. So because Beto Aurore came out with that big number on his first day of six point one million dollars, which. Nearly beat Bernie Sanders. I one day total of five point nine million. So is better Rourke sitting on some big stash of cash where he's gonna then say, hey, blew everyone away and part of this is a communication strategy. Right. Where they sit there, and they wonder where can we sort of interject ourselves in the new cycle to feel like we can make a splash because a lot of this really is about momentum. Right. And don't forget Beto aerobic raised more money than any other Senate candidate eighty million Senate candidate eighty million dollars. We know he has a list, we know he generates excitement, we know he can raise money. So we'll see difference April fifty two difference. There though, obviously is that the same people who are giving to Bernie Sanders and comma Harris, and now people to judge we're giving better a rock to win the Senate in Texas, whether or not they want better a rock to be president is that sort of threshold he needs to get over. And that is exactly kind of what I want to figure out here is who are these people? Are they are these big donors are? Are they just everyday people who get really excited about candidates? Do. We know that we know the average donation we know think for Bernie Sanders, it's twenty dollars dollars that's pretty low. So that means they're not big donors. And it means also the lower the donation generally that means you can go back to that same person over and over again, there are people who've signed up for automatic monthly donations to their candidates sometimes it's ten dollars. And that is the unique thing that the Sanders campaign has really done this time around which is get you to sign up for automatic recurring payments. So that they can keep going back to you over and over again because the maximum that you can give in the primary is twenty eight hundred dollars so doing that. And you've got someone giving you ten bucks or twenty bucks every month? That's a lot of months that you can sustain a candidacy through a long drawn out. Primary fight. Do we know if people are kind of hedging their bets and saying I'm going to give a little bit over here to Buddha. Judge a little bit over here to maybe cushion gillibrand. I mean who has tell at this point. To cross populate without having massive spreadsheets of who all the donors are. And remember we don't have any of this information for real yet. Because none of this is on the federal election Commission's website yet. Once all of that is done expect that you'll have lots of organizations downloading those lists and crossing over. But I think what you can probably safely think is that there is some crossover because there are so many people running. I mean, if you look back at past years, for example, Bernie Sanders, what he raised certainly impressive eighteen point two million dollars. But it pales in comparison, frankly, to what Hillary Clinton was able to raise in two thousand fifteen what Hillary Clinton was able to raise in two thousand seven won't Barack Obama was able to raise in two thousand seven now that two thousand seven two thousand eight field was also very large. You had almost a dozen Democrats running you had the opportunity for the money to be spread around. But the difference. This time is that you have far less people standing out as the top two or three people. Who are definitely the candidates people think we're going to win. And I don't know the my second point. I give you my second. I'll give you I'll give you dominicos second point Democrats in general this entire primary field. Democrats are excited. They're enthusiastic, and they are willing to open their wallets. I think the overall fundraising the fact that it is so spread out tells you that Democrats are very invested and energized about this field. I think it tells you a little bit less about drawing from these numbers to who's going to win the nomination the person who raises the most money early on doesn't necessarily get the nomination just ask president, Jeb Bush. But right now, you'd have to say that Bernie Sanders in terms of poll numbers and money raised is the front runner right now. So you are commonly Harris you've got your twelve million dollars in your head in Iowa. What are you spending your money on in? How it different than say Bernie Sanders who has a whole campaign arm in mechanism leftover from the last time, he ran and has outraged her. One morning. I want to give people is if you think about Scott Walker who is the former Wisconsin governor he raised a ton of money in two thousand fifteen but he also spent about ninety thousand dollars a day and lost. And some of what that money went to. And you talk about what do they spend this stuff on payroll? The campaign had lots of consultants. There's lots of people who want up feed off a campaign. Look, there are a lot of people who want to be part of a campaign that they know can spend and raise a lot of money. You gotta be leery of what that burn rate is. And I'm going to be really curious to see what the Sanders burn rate is because they have a ton of staff. The fact is these campaigns can spend a lot of money in salary, and it depends on how lean they're going to be an at some point when we get closer the biggest pot of money is gonna be on all those TV. Okay. And really quick before we take a break. We have a little bit of breaking news. We found out that Andrew Yang raise one point seven million dollars in Andrew Yang who's a text. Yup. Investor raised this money from eighty thousand donors, that's an average of eighteen dollars a donation less than Bernie Sanders, and he's gained some attention in some circles for his idea of a universal basic income where people would get a fixed amount of money. And he says that he does that because of the coming automation that's likely out of Silicon Valley. And can we say just one little point on a related issue? The Democratic National Committee for some unknown reason set the bar for participating in the debates at sixty five thousand donors, totally arbitrary totally arbitrary, and I'm sure now they are read gritting that because every beating it they should have said it at six hundred fifty thousand dollars. But anyway, the point is they set the number of donors way too low, and in addition to that sixty five thousand donors that marris talking about they have to be from a lot of states after be from twenty different states, world's longest debates are coming our way. We're in the crowded to be multiple debate. Yes. Because they have to split them up. They can only fit so many on the stage of went so they have to have divisions of debates. I think the debates are going to be really interesting an amazing because they're going to be funnels for who can last for very long. I mean, the money were talking about can be spent very very quickly people aren't going to be able to last for very long if they don't do well in those debates gain more attention and raise more money, and there's a group called Emily's list, which supports female pro-choice candidates and Emily stands for early money is like yeast, and that's what Dominica's talking about early money is really helpful the amount of money. You raise is not a predictor of whether you're going to be the nominee or not. But it really helps jump start a campaign. Now, I'm hungry and want bread. Well, now, we're going to sit here and kind of process the idea of a marathon debate schedule, but we're also going to take a break. And when we get back, President Trump and how much he's spending for his reelection bid support support for this podcast and the following message. Come from Viking publisher of finding my voice by Valerie, Jared deemed the ultimate Obama insider by the New York Times Valerie Jarrett now shares her journey from her work ensuring equality for women and girls advancing civil rights and reforming the criminal Justice system to the real stories behind the Obama presidency. Jarrett relates her forthright optimistic perspective on leadership and citizenship in the twenty first century, finding my voice available now. Now that says has lost all its territory what happens to the people ISIS left behind. She chose to take out the Fisher study in Syria and what about their children? How it ends a new series on embedded and we're back. Let's turn to Trump who's always been raising and spending a lot of money that's kind of one of his major hallmarks here. And I on the raising side. How is he comparing to Democrats right now, he's blowing them out of the water? I mean, the fact is he's raised total sixty seven and a half million dollars through the end of twenty eight. Right. So these are his last year numbers not his first quarter numbers those lineup. Exactly. Exactly. It doesn't line up. Exactly at some point when Democrats coalesce and get around one person, they'll most likely be able to raise the kind of money to match what President Trump is raising. But so far. That's why a reelection bid does have some advantages because structurally he started running for election the day after he won election, and is able to continue to kind of pile on that he's the first president who started raising money for his reelection in the first two years. So he started earlier than anyone else. Just to give you an example about. About how incumbent presidents have so many advantages structural, resources, etc. He's spending five million dollars on social media more than all the Democrats combined. And the point is he is able because he doesn't have a contested primary to develop this powerful infrastructure and really a mighty campaign. And that's something that incumbents have that no challenger over will one thing. I think we have to explain about how the structure is sort of set up with re-elec's is there's a Trump campaign. And then there are these PACS that support him that are affiliated with the campaign that then also do joint fundraising with the national party committee with the Republican National Committee, right and President Trump has two of those supporting him right now. So the Trump campaign itself proper has raised sixty seven and a half million dollars through the end of two thousand eighteen it spent about fifty six million dollars when it comes to these other two packs you've got Trump victory and Trump make America great again. Though, it's what their official names are people can give up to five thousand dollars per donation to those packs that's more than you can give to a campaign and together Trump victory and Trump make America great again have raised a hundred million dollars just through the end of twenty eighteen some of that money will be shared and used with the RNC. But all of it is for the benefit of Trump winning re election in twenty twenty. Okay. So we talked about him raising sixty seven and a half million dollars last year, but that spending number fifty six million dollars is huge at the huge share of what he raised more. What is he spending all of this money on spending it on a lot of different things? He's hiring staff. He's paying for those rallies that he holds he held eighteen rallies in twenty days before the twenty eighteen midterm elections campaigning for Republican Senate candidates around the country both been to these rallies. They are not small production. Pretty auctions. And look, you know, people talk about the burn rate, obviously, you don't wanna campaign to squander their money. But if they're just sitting on it, that's bad too. Right. You wanna spend it you're looking for votes. And one of the other things that they spend money on six million dollars in legal bills legal bills when it comes to the defense attorneys in cases, dealing with Trump's alleged affair with stormy Daniels of the film actress Donald Trump junior's meeting with Russians at Trump Tower and other allegations involving his son in law, Jared Kushner, so that money is part of that because of the allegations of campaign finance violations yet. And I think that's something that people need to be really aware of here is because you think of the president's legal troubles as kind of being, you know, varied and many. So it's not just the the stuff that he is going through with the southern district of New York or even what's happening with the Muller report. There are these campaign related legal issues that are eating a lot of money that isn't coming out of the president's pocket. Right more, right. And just one bottom line on this last time 2016, Donald Trump ran a bare bones relatively inexpensive campaign. As a matter of fact, he really did it on the cheap. He even. In some areas made money because of course, he used his own venues, he rented them to the campaign this time that will not be the case he is going to be a terrifically well funded campaign with basically as much money as we've ever seen an incumbent raisin history. So this really sounds a lot to me like the president has a lot of built in advantages that -solutely that's why only two presidents in recent memory have lost re election Carter, and George H W Bush incumbents, historically, get reelected, barring and unpopular war a recession or a hostage crisis. But let's be clear here. The president also doesn't have the same kind of personal rules for the kind of money. He's going to accept that. Democrats have right. We don't know if that's going to be true of the eventual democratic eventually. What does he stand right now? They have some pretty strict rules about what some of these candidates willing to accept right? Democrats are really saying that they don't want any corporate money. They don't want bundlers. They're really sort of bad talking money. And what a lot of strategists who have raised a lot of money worry about is. They'll say why do Democrats want to fight with one hand tied behind their back. When President Trump is not only fighting with both hands, but brass knuckles, and whatever other tool is at his disposal because he's willing to take it. All right. Would you rather be pure or would you rather win? So we have a bare knuckles brawl money going on here. And it's not over. We're going to hear a lot more of that over the next couple of weeks, and we will be back as soon as there is new news you need to know until then had to NPR dot org slash politics newsletter to subscribe to a round up of our best online stories and analysis. I'm Kelsey Snell. I cover congress, I'm Dominica in political editor, and I'm Mara Liasson, national political correspondent and thank you for listening to the NPR politics pod. Cast.

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The Democratic Presidential Field (So Far)

The Daily

26:57 min | 2 years ago

The Democratic Presidential Field (So Far)

"From the New York Times. I'm Michael Barr. This is the Dave. Today Bernie Sanders enters a crowded field of democratic presidential candidates. How those candidates who agree on so many socialists are fighting to distinguish themselves in order to beat President Trump. It's ones that you're twenty. I stand here today to declare that. I am a candidate for president. Today to announce my candidacy. Candidate. I'm finally exploratory committee of the United States. Running for president because I want to dress issues. Hi, I'm Bernie Sanders. I'm running for president. And I'm asking you today. Part of an unprecedented grassroots campaign. Going to do this again. Alex burns. What does Bernie Sanders announcement mean for the twenty twenty presidential race? Will it really means that now we have a full spectrum of democratic candidates running from sort of quasi Marxist to avowedly moderate that might sound like we now have this messy shapeless field. But in reality, they are all basically debating the same central question. Which is who has what it takes to be Donald Trump all the candidates all voters from different wings of the party, basically agree that that is the over arching theme of this primary. They just all have different answers to that basic question, and as these democratic candidates to bait visions for beating Trump, I have to imagine that is a calculation about moving left and embracing kind of the politics of identity or tacking to the right to go after Trump voters moderates, we'll you're sort of half right there that there is a debate about whether the party needs to move to the left or to the center, but the fault lines are. I entirely about the economy when it comes to matters of identity and different social Justice issues. There's very very little disagreement across the field when you think about the issues that are now just consensus positions in the Democratic Party support for gay marriage support for abortion rights, support for very restrictive gun control laws. I don't know that you would have had a field. We didn't have a field ten years ago. Fifteen twenty years ago, where there was basically no daylight on any of those issues that the party is a liberal party on cultural matters and the candidates themselves, obviously have very different identities. But in terms of where they are on those issues. There's not a great deal of daylight when it comes to stuff like, healthcare and taxation and financial regulation. That's when you start to see the difference is really open up that right now is where the democratic debate is going to focus. Here's why is there such a wide spectrum on economic issues where there isn't when it comes to social issues. Well, this is going to get very. Wadey very fast. But I think you can look back over the last decade since the great recession and see just an enormous opening up of the range of economic debate in American politics that in nineteen ninety two or two thousand you didn't have candidates running for the democratic nomination for president calling themselves democratic socialists calling for just a colossal rewriting of the American economy. Now, you have most candidates not calling themselves democratic socialists, but calling for really transformational change of some kind or another. I think you can find the roots to that in the recession. I think you can find the roots of that in Bernie Sanders in two thousand fifteen and Finally I think you can see the Trump presidency just as an enormously disruptive force in this space. I think Democrats Liberal Democrats see how the president blew up the debate around economics on the Republican side, especially on matters like trade and just the nature of the global economy and. There's no reason now for folks on the left not to do the same thing on their side. It's their turn to be incredibly disruptive when it comes to economics. Right. And they don't have on the right? A mainstream traditional Republican president who they worry will make them look outside the mainstream that if you are campaigning against a president Jeb Bush or president Marco Rubio who passed in a very traditional modest middle class tax cut. And who says the right things about economic inequality and pursues of modest tinkering to NAFTA. I think Democrats probably do feel a little bit more trepidation about campaigning on a really daring disruptive relatively far left agenda. That's not the mood of the Democratic Party right now. Right instead, you have candidate on the, right and almost assured nominee who deliberately provokes trade wars, and tears of almost every major economic agreement. We have signed a country in the last twenty five years, right? So Democrats aren't looking. Donald Trump and saying we need to really make sure that we reassure the business community and make sure that we don't, you know, make folks on the center right nervous because the president does those things already. So I think from Democrats closer to the middle Democrats well to the left there is just this universal feeling that they've got to go big on an economic vision in some way. So let's start off at the most disruptive and of the economic spectrum here. Hi, I'm Bernie Sanders. I'm running for president. I imagined that that is Bernie Sanders. Right. Why does he believe that? He is best positioned to beat President Trump. Our campaign is about taking on the powerful special interest that dominate our economic and political life. Well, the Sanders theory of the case in twenty nine thousand nine is very similar to what his theory was in two thousand fifteen in two thousand sixteen which is that if you're running against a candidate, Donald Trump, and a political party elector publican party that is defined in the eyes of many voters as a party of great wealth and a party that is aligned with powerful corporate interests, you run right at that great wealth and those powerful corporate interests, and we all the wealthiest nation in the history of the world. We should not have a grotesque level of wealth inequality in which three billionaires now own wool wealth than the bottom. Half of the country part of what has won him the passionate following. He has is his directness in marshalling people sense of political affiliation and economic disatisfaction in a really class oriented way. Our campaign is about creating a government and the Kadhamy that works for the many nachos. The few he talks about trying to bring together voters who are economically distressed across lines of geography and culture and race in a way that other candidates don't necessarily I'm running for president because the time is long overdue for the United States. Join every other major country on earth and guarantee healthcare to all people as a right not a privilege through a Medicare for all single payer program. You know, his theory is that if you talk about giving people government, guaranteed health care that appeals as much to an African American woman in Los Angeles as it does to a white coal miner in West Virginia. That theory has not really been tested the way. Bernie Sanders with like to test it there is very very substantial evidence from the last few rounds of national elections that culture is such a dominant force in American elections that I think it does cast doubt on whether that would work in a general election because together you and I and two thousand sixteen campaign began the political revolution. Now, it is time to complete that revolution and implement the vision that we fought for you know, he's talking about revolution. That's the word. He uses an a uses it for a reason. So the question here is can he wanna race that's all about class and will that work? Can he make it all about the one percent versus the ninety nine percent and actually succeed? Right. And the question is does the ninety nine percent see themselves as a coherent entity, right or do other kinds of social and cultural divisions. Make the aspiration to a cross racial national workers campaign. Just sort of a fantasy, right, right? We'd probably know if there was a ninety nine percent club of voters that saw itself as one entity waiting to be tapped. Anytime a politician tells you that eighty percent of people agree strongly with their position on something as sensitive as healthcare care, bedrock nature the American automating, they're they're demanding. So who's next on this democratic spectrum remembering that, we're going left to less left? Well, you know, a lot of these people are tricky to categorize ideologically. But I think the person you would have to close to Berea Sanders, but with some very very significant philosophical and personal modifications, Elizabeth Warren. The middle class. Squeeze is real millions of families can barely breathe in is not right. She's a candidate is running a populist campaign. Hard working people are up against a small group that holes far too much power not just in our economy. But also in our democracy, she is targeting banks insurance companies pharmaceutical companies and win giant corporations and their leaders cheat their customers stop out their competitors and robbed their workers. Let's prosecute. What on like Bernie Sanders? She's very explicit about calling herself a capitalist. We can't afford just to take around the edges a tax credit here. Regulation dare our fight is for big structuring change that is a huge tonal and substantive difference from Bernie Sanders, she's not talking about blowing up and incinerating the entire system and rebuilding it from the ground up. She is talking about using all the levers of power in government to take control of a system that she argues is out of control, right? So cleaning it up not blowing. Right. We need to change the rules to clean up Washington and the corruption so in that sense, she would be appealing to the Trump voters. Same desire to drain the swamp. If there's a drain the swamp candidate in the democratic primary, it is Elizabeth Warren corruption is the central theme of her campaign as much as anything else proposed the strongest and most comp. Anti corruption law since Watergate. But the basic political logic of a war campaign is not all that different from the logic of Sanders campaign. It's about harnessing alienate with the political system. It's about telling people that. Yeah, you're right. The economy is rigged. And I'm going to do something very very drastic about it. We need to take power in Washington away from the wealthy and well connected. And put it back in the hands of the people where it belongs. Campaign represents, you know, again, not Sanders like rejection of what's normal, but definitely rejection of what's normal. So what is the risk of a warrant like candidate? If by your description, she's kind of a democratic Trump like candidate in her attempts to sell herself as a fixer of broken system there. Couple risks in a war on candidacy. The biggest one is she is putting essentially all her chips on the idea that voters are alienated from the economy, and that is going to be the consuming issue for them in this election. It's a bet that people are not just a little bit dissatisfied with how things are working right now that they are profoundly dissatisfied, and that whatever other issues they make care about its issues about the economy and the power of corporations that matter more than anything else. So we're focused maybe too narrow what we just don't know what voters are going to care about most year from now. And in some ways, it's a daring bet in some ways that they. Risky bed to think that these core issues that have been issues that have defined your career are going to be the decisive issues. I in the primary than in the general election is not that she only talks about these issues. But you know, I was in Iowa with her for a day pretty recently and the balance of themes related to corruption and corporate power versus all other themes in her, stump speech. It's just overwhelmingly lops. Who is in the next band over? So if you think of Sanders and Warren who are candidates really preoccupied with economic populism, and whose basic campaign bargain is let's tax the wealthy and go after corporations in order to create new welfare benefits for other people you then get into this next band of candidates, and they're a little bit harder to characterize ideologically candidates, comma Harrison Kirsten gillibrand Cory Booker, these candidates who are all campaigning as liberals and who have endorsed big liberal goals. Declare education is a fundamental, right? I believe that healthcare should be a right and not a privilege people in America are losing faith that this nation will work for them guaranteed that right with universal pre-k and debt free college. I believe shut better public schools because it shouldn't matter what block you grow up on my record as mayor my record. As Senator is fighting those interests are trying to screw people. And when it comes to defending I will be ferocious, but they are much more cautious about the way, they talk about enacting that chain. What is your solution to ensure that people have access to quality health care at an affordable price in does that solution involved cutting insurance companies as we know them out of the equation. We saw this very memorably with comma Harris in her first few days as a candidate when she first in a CNN event endorsed getting rid of the private healthcare system entirely. I believe the solution. And I'm and I'm actually very strong. About this is that we need to have Medicare for all. That's just the bottom. Buni Sanders like position, and then Senator Harris now backtracking a bit under call to eliminate private health. Insurers spokesman tells us she is open to more moderate plans that preserve the private healthcare industry clarified that she favors any number of ways of getting to universal healthcare coverage, not necessarily the Bernie Sanders approach signature economic proposal is a big tax cut deliver the largest working and middle class tax cut in a generation. At the middle class paid for by increasing taxes and changing the kinds of taxes that are applied to much wealthier people. Reversing this administration's giveaways to the top. Is a much more conventional way of thinking about how you gain credibility on the economy. Our planet is in peril. And we need to be bold. It's one of the reasons why signed onto the resolution co-sponsored the resolution for the green new deal. I think that once you get to Cory Booker. You're even a couple clicks closer to the political center. And there's a lot of people now that are blowing back on the review. Oh impractical loads to expensive. Oh, it's all this. If we used to govern our dreams that way would never go onto the moon. God, that's impractical. You see that all in the sky. He endorses the green new deal as sort of an aspirational goal, but he doesn't endorse the full program wouldn't expect to enacted as president. And my parents taught me reach reach for the moon reach for the stars. And even if you come up short, at least, you're going to be hovering above the ground. You'd be soaring that he is somebody who you start to hear. Speaking in more, pragmatic terms about simply what he considers possible in a divided government. And when the planet has been in peril in the past who came forward to save earth from the scourge of Nazi until Taliban regime's, we came forward. I imagine that the idea for this group of democratic candidates is to appeal to every conceivable voter by seeming pragmatic and flexible malleable, but I imagine that the risk here is gaining a reputation for being in authentic. Maybe even phony the risk is that you end up trying to be all things to all people and being nothing in particular to anybody. And this is a particular point of distinction on economic issues and issues related to inequality and corporate power that if you're a candidate who talks big on taking on health insurance companies taking on banks making sure that you know, the ninety nine percents are catching up with the one percent people might at some. Point expect you to propose policy ideas that would actually achieve that outcome. And there's a great risk in being seen as a candidate who endorses a bunch of very grand liberal goals. And then there's always a, but right? I'm thinking, of course, of Hillary Clinton taking Wall Street money while calling for Wall Street reform, if there's one consistent theme we've seen in politics over the last two years in both parties, it's the importance of personal and ideological authenticity. And that is something that Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren obviously have in spades. And once you start to get to candidates who are trying to bridge divides in the party, it just becomes more complicated. If you are Donald Trump, what you're hoping for is a democratic candidate who will be so far left that they cannot appeal to the middle or a candidate who has tied themselves into an ideological pretzel. And who you can just ridicule as authentic. I don't think there's anybody in the democratic. Race at this point who has reached that pretzel status, but we will see especially for these candidates who are trying to straddle left and the center who were trying to be both revolutionary and exciting and also non-threatening voters who are more traditional voters a long primary is going to test. Whether the core of who they are really fits that description. So you're kind of tracking pretzel status. So that leaves us with the actual moderates. And who are they so far will right now to long leaders in Washington have sat on the sidelines while others tried to figure out what to do about the changing economy and its impact on our lives. There's really only one major candidate in the race who is positioning herself very directly as a moderate. And that's closure. We have seen her more than any other candidate willing to just say no to some of the really big liberal trophy ideas like Medicare for all like free college. Yes, or no. Would you support free college for all? I am not for free four year college for all. No, thank you. We have talked about candidates who say, yes. But but she's a candidate who just says. No, if I was a magic genie and could give that to everyone and we could afford it. I would I'm just trying to find a mix of incentives, and we're going to see whether. There's an appetite for that in the Democratic Party somebody who says I'm just going to level with you. I'm not going to do that. Because I don't think it's possible. Here are the things I am going to do getting to universal health care. And down bringing down the cost of prescription drugs. It's a bet that voters will reward candor and realism look if you're kogo are you're taking a big risk on the idea that voters will accept less if they think that they can get it for sure as opposed to promising them more with some uncertainty about whether it's a cheap -able. It is time to organize time to galvanize time to take back our democracy. Time America really significant portion of the Democratic Party self identifies as moderate not conservative, but they are suspicious of Medicare for all they are suspicious of some of the really grand transformational promises that they hear from the more liberal candidates. And right now, if you split up the pie on the left between the candidates, we've talked about there's a big of pie left closer to the political bender and Amy klobuchar is the only person with the possible exception of Cory Booker who's going right at so the space that she's in could get crowded if suddenly Joe Biden runs and Mike Bloomberg runs and Terry McAuliffe for John Hickenlooper. Former governors from Virginia Colorado run than she won't be that middle space get real crowded. Alex, more broadly. It feels like the risk here in the Democrats building their message and their platforms around the economy in wanting against President Trump is the economy is doing pretty well isn't a possible that in a year. So if the economy stays doing this, well, the voters are going to look around and see all of the Democratic Party promising to blow things up, and they're gonna think to themselves. I don't wanna blow up this system, that's working weasing ably. Well, for me, it's entirely possible. And one of the ironies of the race that we're seeing so far is Donald Trump as kind of status quo candidate as a let's not shake things up much candidate on the specific issue of the economy. He's obviously not that kind of candidate or president more generally. But this is also a place where in some ways Democrats are taking a lesson from Trump's candidacy in two thousand sixteen. I think we all remember when Trump was out there talking about making America great. Again, that one of the really big democratic applause lines was America is already great. And it turns out that a lot of voters did not agree with that. And the president is counting on that working for him in two thousand twenty so make America's economy greater could basically be the Democratic Party slogan for twenty twenty absolutely the core of the democratic message in twenty twenty will almost certainly be about the economy, unless we have some kind of catastrophic intervening event that nobody is hoping for and because they feel that the economic message is what was missing last time. They all basically agree with each other. And they all basically with Hillary Clinton on social and cultural issues that are at the heart of American politics, and they all disagree strongly with Donald Trump on those issues where they don't agree with each other. And where the party has not yet found its identity on the national level is on these economic, and it's where they don't know where the country is it's where they don't know where a controlling coalition of voters can be found. They know what it looks like to win. Midterm election with an economic message. They know what it looks like to lose a presidential election with the weak economic message. They don't yet know what it means to put together. A winning message on the economy in the Trump era in a presidential race. Thank you very much. Thank you. You know, what's not smart? The way hiring used to be job boards that overwhelm you with tons of the wrong resumes. Now, there's a smarter way at ZipRecruiter dot com slash daily. Ziprecruiter's powerful matching technology finds the right people for you and actively invites them to ply. It's no wonder that recruiter is rated number one by employers in the US and right now listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter dot com slash daily. That's ZipRecruiter dot com slash daily. Yours. What else you need to not a times investigation has uncovered several previously unknown attempts by President Trump to impede federal investigations into his administration's conduct in one case, Trump suggested that has acting attorney general Matt Whitaker, install a Trump ally to oversee an investigation into his hush money payments to two women who said they had a fares with Trump. We'd occurred to Klein sour in his relationship with the president in another case Trump had private conversations with Republican lawmakers, including Representative Matt gaetz about a campaign to attack the special counsel, Robert Muller and use the lawmakers congressional oversight power to try to undercut the lawmakers. The times did just that. And the federal judge handling the case of Roger stone along. Time Trump advisor charged with lying to federal prosecutors in the Russia investigation is demanding to know why stone posted a menacing photo on Instagram that included a close up picture of the judge her knee, and what appeared to be the crosshairs of a gun near her head. The judge ordered a special court hearing set for tomorrow to address the image, which stone has since apologized and Toledo. That's if addict, I'm Michael seat him. This is Sam stiffen food editor of the New York Times. Whether you're just starting out in the kitchen or looking to up your game. And why t- cooking is here with more than nineteen thousand times tested recipes and all the help you need to cook them. Well subscribed today at Y cooking dot com slash podcast.

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9/26/18: Does Kavanaugh Survive?

Powerhouse Politics

24:41 min | 3 years ago

9/26/18: Does Kavanaugh Survive?

"Hello and welcome to powerhouse politics. ABC news, political director, recline and I'm Terry Moran ABC's senior national correspondent. And Terry. We are sitting here on Wednesday, less than twenty four hours away from one of the most anticipated moments of the Trump presidency. Maybe one of the most anticipated moments in modern political history today where judge breath Cavanaugh will face down one of his accusers, Christine Blasi Ford before the Senate Judiciary committee, the supreme court hanging in the balance Terry. You've been here before you've been covering a lot of these. A lot of memories and echoes of nineteen ninety one in Clarence Thomas of what what do you see is the stakes coming into tomorrow? Well, the court, obviously, but then there's something the Anita hill Clarence Thomas hearings showed as well, and the need to heal said on good Morning America. The other day, this moment changes the trajectory of two lives. We're gonna get to the politics of it. This is politics powerhouse podcast. But spare a moment for a little bit of sympathy for these two individuals, their lives will never be the same and they have to go forward in trying to remember what happened thirty five years ago between them in front of the country, skeptical questioners on both sides and that's at stake. But more more to the point of this podcast, it's not just the supreme court. It could be the Republican majority depending on how this is handled and the fact that there are more cues coming out makes it even more uncomfortable for Republican and the and the trajectory of the Trump presidency. All three branches of government in a sense on trial under the microscope, a lot to be determined and we went on pack all of that today. But I want to start with the news because just this morning, Michael ovens who's been teasing, big announcement on Twitter appears to have delivered on what he promised, and he has an David that's been submitted to the Senate Judiciary committee that has detailed allegations from. A new woman we hadn't heard from before Julie sweat, Nick who talks about multiple incidents in involving Brett Cavanaugh and his friend Mark judge take a listen to Michael vanity. Also known as the lawyer for stormy Daniels, of course, on the view this morning. The drug women by placing grain alcohol or drugs in basically the punch at these parties that may of these women ended up gang raped. Unfortunately, I mean, the details in this declaration are specific. They are shocking, but above all else, they are true Terry Moran we are now talking about gang rape. Yeah, and and there's a couple of things about this. I duly sweat Nick was in the same social circle. She describes she says she attended about ten parties over a couple of years with Brett Cavanaugh and his friend Mark judge who actually Christine Blasi. Ford alleges was in the room when she was allegedly assaulted by cavenaugh. Judge inciting Cavanaugh on allegedly and Julie sweat. Nick says, she knew these guys and she knew them at these apparently wild parties that were going on the DC suburbs in the early. Nineteen eighties where they were. She said she observed them spiking the punch targeting vulnerable, young women, teenage girls, if you will, and and then take them into a room and she would. She alleged that there were gang rapes going on, boy, young men waiting outside the closed door of the room to take their turn. And she finally alleges she was one of them. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's written to me in a in a slightly of a very careful way. I should say where leaves unclear whether Cavanaugh was in fact one of the attackers at least the my reading of it for her, particularly. She talks about that cultural generally, but it is a stunning allegation that comes on the heels of the initial allegation. Christine Blasi Ford of attempted sexual assault where she says she even feared for her life at one point, the accounts in the New Yorker, the dating from the time that he spent at Yale and Terry. I think one question that emerges to my. Mind and a lot of Republicans. I've been talking to racist point that suddenly this man went in the course of all of this vetting. He went from being a boy scout from being a prep boy nerd to being an alleged gang rapists in the space of ten days or so. What do you make of how this turn and the timing of this turn that all comes after the confirmation hearing? Well, it's the intersection as Clarence Thomas, say, hill hearings were of the deeply personal and the highly partisan political. That's what we've got Democrats want anything to beat this guy. They did a very poor job on the merits in the hearings trying to find some ground to get people to vote against him into pose him. And now they have an exploration of his life as a teenager. In the answer the question, how could this have happened while there's only two, there's only two answers really one. It didn't or two. There's a very deep dark buried black box in his life that he has shut down a longtime ago and covered it up with a with a very devout and apparently exemplary adult life, a guess that's possible. One of the things that is common in both of those and cavenaugh acknowledges it drinking. The one thing that I witnesses confirm whatever they have to say about. About his intimate behavior is in those years. He drank a great deal, and, and another thing that's extraordinarily about this week, Terry, as you know, is that for the first time in history that we know of a supreme court nominee has done in the interview to try to rebut this in advance of additional public testimony on Fox News. So of course, a friendlier outlet than than most, but but take listen to judge Cavanaugh. We should know this specifically his response to the New Yorker allegation that dated from his time at Yale. The women I knew in college and the men I knew in college says it's inconceivable that I could have done such a thing and the New York Times reported that just last week, the person making the accusation was calling. Other classmates saying she was not sure that I done this. So that gets your point about the about the compartmentalization of his life, perhaps the black box of it. What do you make of the way that cavenaugh himself has pushed back on this. This has been a strange ten days to my mind because the initial allegation came out and then another one comes out a week later and now a third. But we still we haven't had a full public accounting from the first allegation yet that's going to happen tomorrow the Senate Judiciary committee, but Cavanaugh Cavanaugh has pushed back in the interim he has, and I think he was in a terrible position. I think from his perspective, what's he supposed to? How do you prove negative? How do you prove that thirty? Six years ago, five years ago, you weren't in a specific room at a party, very, very difficult to prove that especially when there is no direct corroborating contemporaneous evidence from Christine Blasi forty told people of the past five or six years, but not for decades. In between that said, what if Cavanaugh had said, look, you know, I don't remember doing this. I don't think I did. I. It's nothing that I think I would do, but I know that I was a little out of control in highschool drinking too much. And if I. Did this that to this person, Christine, Blasi Ford, I, I'm, I'm sorry. And it is terrible. It doesn't seem like something I would do instead. It became very quickly the position that the president has basically articulated, which is don't believe the women. Yes, and that is a political loser. And and I think that's an important point to make an all of this. And I think we talk about similarities and differences from nineteen ninety one. The fact that we are in this metoo era where there are other women who are coming forward and understand or believe they understand where these women are coming, why they're coming forward decades after the fact and dishes at a president who himself has stood accused of of sexual misconduct in the past and has has used this playbook. Take a listen to help President Trump handle this when he was asked about it while in the at the United Nations in New York are playing a. A con game, is there. No, they know. And they wink each week. They know it's time. So for this to be a con game it, it suggests that Democrats are in cahoots in dropping these allegations. And it also suggests, I think more than suggests it outright says that these three women now are making it up. And the first part of that is kinda undeniable that the Democrats, dine Feinstein had these allegations, didn't share them with Democrats or Republicans, Christine Blasi. Ford is being advised among other people by Ricki Seidman who was I remember was a counselor to Nita hill. She was on the Ted Kennedy staff Senate staff. She worked in the Obama White House. She's a longtime democratic operative as are some of her other advisers and Deborah Ramirez shared her allegations with democratic staff. I and they didn't tell Republicans have so you can understand why Republicans are saying, wait a minute. This is not about a search for the truth as it is a weaponising of. Allegations, that's probably true, but they are there. And at this point I don't see how you don't delay this hearing or have another one, I think of cabinet wants to go through to in order to air out to at least take a look at this worn affadavit from Julie's sweat, Nick and delay means death for this nomination and President Trump those that and his been already saying publicly, they should push forward on this week ago. Regardless of the allegations, his feeling feelings that Republicans have been accommodating enough given too much ground to Democrats. And that is the view among some Republicans unclear at this stage though whether they have the votes. And I think that's that's a critical piece is that strategy only works if you can get that person confirmed. I think as of right now, they do not have the votes that a lot is riding on this hearing for only a relative handful of senators, but but the critical senators. Well, and I wonder and I wanna ask you Mitch McConnell, the Senate Republican leader, the majority leader, the Senate has been saying for a week. Now we're gonna. Get this thing done. We're going to get it done fast. We're gonna have a photo maybe by this weekend we've got the votes is going to be on the court at some point. I thought he does protest too much. Is he bluffing a little bit doing his best to a fight, the good fight for the conservative base, but recognizing let's get this thing done one way or another because if we need another nominee we want that sooner because in January, if we lose the Senate and that's a big if but if Democrats take the Senate, it's a different ball game. That's precisely right. He he is bluffing, but he's bluffing knowing that he is called on that bluff. He's got another hand to play, which is a classic McConnell maneuver. What Mitch McConnell is thinking about here is maintaining that Senate majority and getting a confirmed nominee does he care about Brad Kavanagh? A lot of people thinks Pat Kavanagh wasn't even his first or second or fourth choice. He's fine with brecca than I would do the right thing, but he what he really wants to make sure that they have that conservative majority and it's the supreme court, and he really wants is to make sure that his members are max. Political advantage, and the Democrats are on the defensive, which brings us Terry to the spectacle and the extrordinary event that we're expecting on Thursday echoes of nineteen ninety one. The last time we had anything even remotely like this, and it does seem like the Republicans have learned or sought to impose some of the lessons from that in the initial move that they made of of hiring outside counsel of the Mitch McConnell. Somehow, somewhat in artfully though, I think probably accurately is very to her as a female assistant, but she's in accomplished an accomplished investigator and prosecutor out narrow Zona who's gonna come on and handle the questioning. Basically conceding that Republican senators don't trust themselves in the setting. They are openly conceding it that they who Bob corker that look, one of them says something wrong to Dr Blasi Ford, and that's all we'll hear about. So in a somewhat cynical and and self. Denigrating in a way a political ploy. They've hired Rachel Mitchell, but Rachel Mitchell is a serious person. And I'd like this. Somebody had to sit through the Nida hill Clarence Thomas hearings. And here the wretched attempts by senators to get at with the fact they're senators are terrible questioners on both sides, what they do, they give speeches and then they throw a softball or Gotcha bays written by their staff. They don't follow up. They don't understand how to plot a line of questioning trial. Lawyers are trained to think differently and to question differently and what they wanna do is elicit facts that they can you respectfully sensitively, especially somebody with with Rachel Mitchell's decades of experience in this area to elicit facts that they can use in an argument for their case show sees. She's an advocate, but one, the last thing I'd say is people find it very cynical, political point. It is. But Rachel Mitchell comes to this hearing room with a reputation and career at stake as well. If she is seeing to rough up, Dr Christine Blasi. Lord, what victim would ever talk to her again. So I expect her to be very professional and she's going to question Cavanaugh too, and she knows how to do it. So she may be a little bit wildcard for Republicans in this hearing. So you've you this as having the potential to be a serious inquiry as opposed to just the political spectacle that that that that you might expect from very partisan panel? Yeah. If I, if Rachel Mitchell gets to do her job, which spent decades doing one awards to, yes. The problem is that a serious inquiry would also include other witnesses and probably back one of them. She's at a disadvantage and she's a prosecutor and everytime she's questioned witnesses. She will have all already talked to the detectives, who did the investigation that would be the FBI in this case and they didn't do an investigation. So she's flying blind a little bit when she questions. Kristen Blasi Ford or Brett cavern and the politics of course will be everywhere you have as we mentioned these wing seat on the supreme. Court, you have the potential for this to throw control of congress into disarray, and just a few short weeks before the midterms, we've the credibility of the president. You have several twenty twenty contenders were part of this committee both on the democrat and Republican side who will have an opportunity to shine. One thing that strikes be Terry and you're in the room for much of this in nineteen Ninety-one. In the memories of that hearing, nobody looks good. None of those senators. None of the senators. In fact, a lot of the harshest questioning that's come among Democrats. Recently, it's been what Joe Biden's role was all of that back in nineteen ninety. One is the chairman of the Senate Judiciary committee putting a need hill through that his very explicit rounds of questioning. Is it your sense that this has the potential to be that kind of defining moment for this generation of members of the Senate Judiciary committee? That's a great point. I think it does because senators aren't good at this. They're trying to do this. They make speeches, they make laws that try to shape the national debate. They, they fight it. Out with each other over how to get that debate in their direction, but an inquiry which is which is rigorous and which can at least surface something that we can call facts. They aren't very good at that. And I think they're tendency to speech by their tendency to score political points with a couple of exceptions, comma Harris. Good question. Although she kinda stuck out with cavenaugh about, did you did you ever talk about the Muller probe to member of President? Trump's former lawyers, former lawyers, law firm, and she never delivered on whether or not that ever happened, but she clearly can ask a question properly, so can Sheldon Whitehouse. But for the most part, all of them are up there with different goals than a trial lawyer has or an investigator has. What happened here there after how can I get what happened here to advantage me and my my side very different thing and your sense that anything around the senate's ability to get it. Those. Those questions has changed in the intervening twenty seven years? No, no. In fact, I look when I c- chairman Grassley here. Okay. So chairman Biden gotten a lot of troubled for the way he handled Anita hill. He was in a difficult position and he was as clueless, frankly, as as the rest of the country about the issue of sexual harassment and has been toning for it in some ways, ever since Grassley was on that committee. Right? It was. He's been in the Senate that long. He's eighty five years old. And yet I do feel I don't know if you that. That sense of Grassley. Yes, he's a partisan. Yes. He's trying to get Kavanagh confirmed, but also feel for somebody's been around the Senate that long he knows the Senate is going to be around longer than him or bread Kavanagh or any of this controversy. And he's a little bit of an 'institutionalised. In other words, I don't think he's done the president bidding here, and I think it's quite possible. We'll get a delay in the hearings because I think while he's not an advocate for a neutral inquiry by any means, I think he's got the credibility of the. Mitty and his role as chairman and the Senate more broadly in his mind as well. Not want to overstate that. But I think I think he's doing a little bit good for the country here as as the approaches this now he's declining FBI investigation. So he can take loves off plenty. But there's some Ray of hope in the way Grassley it's been handling. And yeah, there's so much mistrust surrounding this process and be you, can you have to rewind the tape back to Robert Bork if not before then to get to the roots of this and you, you draw that line through Clarence Thomas and then all the way through Merrick, garland, and the failure to even get a hearing on President Obama's final appointment to the supreme court in garland and bring to this moment where it is a purely partisan exercise. And I do think it's extraordinarily and worth pointing out Terry that for all that the nation seems engaged in this. In this question there easily ninety and perhaps ninety five United States senators that right now before hearing a word from Christine, Blasi Ford know how they're going to vote on this nomination. If and when it comes to the floor, this is a universe of about five men and women. Couple of Democrats couple of them Republicans. They are the vanishing if not totally vanished middle of the Senate, and they control whether Brett Cavanaugh guest this lifetime appointment on the supreme court, and they control how history judges this extrordinary moment. That's a great point. Rick. I'm actually old enough to have covered the Bork nomination as well. And that one there were probably twenty or thirty senators. We were all waiting on a lot of the southern Democrats that used to be southern Democrats back in the day and and western Democrats, Dennis deacon senior, which way were they going to go and and you didn't know. But you're right. This is such a narrow, narrow middle in the country as well. Although actually our colleague maryalice parks raised a poll that that shows about a third of the country hasn't made up its mind. My concern is that when they see the testimony, their mind will be made up from their partisan political perspective. The most depressing data that I've seen recently on that is. Allegation of of sexual misconduct against Keith Ellison, the vice chair the DNC and running for attorney general in Minnesota is accused by former partner of domestic abuse sort of recently, and and another woman has come forward as well and Minnesota and National Public Radio ran a poll that showed only five percent of Minnesota Democrats believe the woman, Karen Monaghan is her name and that can't be anything, but don't do it to my guy. Bill Clinton is the most famous example of that. Sure. And and to me in brings us, I think to to, we'll make final final discussion point for today of President Trump, but to me, it is an ultimate manifestation of the red versus blue Mitee versus your team and the way that politics is become that that you could look at the same facts and come to that snap judgment and say, yes, I believe or no, I, I don't believe her. I'm sure some of that is wrapped up in in the socio economics of what of what each party. Is made up of, and they're certainly Democrats that look in act and have different backgrounds and Republicans, but a lot of it is based on that snap judgment you make because he or she is on my team versus the other team. And that does bring us the President Trump because he has lived that he thrived on that sense. He rode to power on that sense of us versus them. He continues to campaign in that way and he is conducted. His campaign is a campaign four breath cavenaugh to sit on the supreme court based on that notion that he has denied tonight. And I of setting this up as the Democrats are out to get the Republicans and we can't fold and he is imposed whether whether or not it was going to happen in this case, that is those are the stakes going into Thursday, and he is re this polarized, his geniuses for polarization. In some ways, he goes for the jugular and get people get people riled up. And in that world that you've just described, Brad Kavanagh has a bit of an outline. Yes, he's on the red team if you will, but he is a, he is well, I guess he's from the elite establishment east coast. You can't get more establishment than bread Cavagnaud and my grandfather actually worked for the Chicago democratic political machine. He was the park district. I'm not sure ever went to any parks, but he did that for years. And they had a saying that when somebody walked into a meeting that they didn't know, they said, who sent you because we don't want nobody nobody sent and there's a, you know, obviously bread Kavanagh's worked in the in the fields of Republican law, conservative law for a long time, but he's not a Trumpy conservative. Right. And I had heard that President Trump had told his, this is the guy you wanted me to pick when this controversy began. Go ahead, get them through, but if you can't, I'm going to pick the one I wanted, which is Amy, Coney Barrett, a woman who was attacked basically by Senator Dianne Feinstein for. For as Feinstein said, you know, I feel that the dogma Catholic dogmas strong and you and that lit up the Christian right for her people fight for people that are on their team. And I think Kavanagh who's lived a, you know, obviously conservative Republican life, but doesn't have that vibe that Trump likes so much and we'll see if it hurts them or not. And it's such such an interesting twist all of this because it is very plausible to my mind to see judge Cavanaugh nominated by president Jeb Bush or president Marco Rubio. It's a very conventional lot of ways choice, and whether this actually results in his withdrawal and the more Trumpy choice as a result would be would be quite an ironic outcome for the Democrats who put so much in the line and finding this nation as it Kavanagh's a judge, they all are and they're all well-qualified, apparently. But one has the says that Amy Conybeare Barrett or somebody. More in in that end of the business might be readier to just flat, overturn Roe versus Wade. Then someone who's more of 'institutionalised Kevin is very conservative judge and he's been running for the supreme court. It seems to me from the court, his appellate court for a long time sending the right signals that he would do the right things. I far conservative jurisprudence is concerned, but I don't think he's a radical and you might get a radical, we might get any sort of outcome out of this next this next couple of news cycles, Terry Moran. Thank you for being here. I know it's been a busy week and you'll be back at it in the hearing room on Thursday for what is going to be an absolutely fascinating day that does it for this edition of powerhouse politics. We will be back. I'm guessing later in the week with a special edition giancarl is on his way up to New York for a presidential news conference this afternoon. So again, our thanks to Terry. Thanks to the whole team. Avery Miller, Angie yack back in the control room, our man, Trevor Hastings. We'll see next time.

Cavanaugh Cavanaugh Senate Terry Christine Blasi Ford president supreme court Dr Christine Blasi Senate Judiciary committee Clarence Thomas Brad Kavanagh Trump Nick Terry Moran Julie sweat Ford Senator Dianne Feinstein Grassley chairman rape FBI
Impeachment witness Lieutenant Colonel Vindman fired from White House; Iowa Democratic Chair: Caucus mistakes "Categorically Unacceptable"

The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer

39:56 min | 1 year ago

Impeachment witness Lieutenant Colonel Vindman fired from White House; Iowa Democratic Chair: Caucus mistakes "Categorically Unacceptable"

"Barbara McDonald here hosted the brand new podcast from h down the hill. The Delphi murders. This is the story of teens. Abby Williams and libby German and February 2017 they went for a hike in Delphi. Indiana and vanished. Nearly twenty four hours later their bodies are found also found Libya's phone which chaz video and audio of the killer who remains on the loose. You can listen now on apple podcasts. This is CNN breaking news. I will let her in the situation situation room. And we're following breaking news just two days after the Senate voted to acquit president trump on two articles of impeachment. Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Veneman National Security Security Council officials who testified against the president during the impeachment hearings has been fired from his job over at the White House Vin bins brother. Eugene an attorney at the National Security Council was also fired from his White House. Physician off speak with the Democratic Congressman. Roque Connie's a member of the House oversight and armed services assists committees and our correspondents analysts will have full coverage of the day's top stories. First let's go to our chief White House correspondent. Jim Acosta Jim. The president has been fuming. Donovan Vincent apparently ever since he testified and the president is making it clear tonight wolf that he is seeking retribution after this impeachment fight and it seems the first on his list is a lieutenant. Colonel Alexander Vinson of the national security official was fired by the White House. He was scored off the grounds of the White House earlier today according according to his lawyer Ambassador David Pressman. We have a statement we can put up on screen From pressman about what happened to his client Alexander Vitamin it says there is no question question in the mind at any American. Why this job is over? Why this country now has one less serving it? One less soldier serving it at the White House. Lieutenant Colonel. Vin was asked to leave. Leave for telling. The truth is honor his commitment to write frightened the powerful The other thing we can point out in this In this statement from his attorney Wolf it goes on to say That essentially that the president here has decided to exact revenge Earlier in the day the president was asked about Some some speculation Reports that were coming out that then was on his way out here at the White House and the president of all but confirmed those reports. Here's what he had to say earlier today. Why isn't it? Would you like to see Alexander out of your White House. You Want Allauddin while I'm not happy with them. You're supposed to be happy with it. I'm not They'll make that decision you'll be hearing. They'll make a decision and of course we all remember during the impeachment inquiry when Alexander van men testified in front of the House and said In this country right matters That testimony obviously got under the president's skin For weeks he was going off on women and other administration. Staffers who were testifying in the impeachment query as never trumpers There were some allies. The president up on Capitol Hill as we all recall who were questioning Lieutenant Colonels Vitamins patriotism. That was met with a lot of criticism. At that time. We should also note at this hour wolf That there's other talk inside the white. How's about a house a house cleaning earlier today It was asked of the president whether or not he had his sights set on his acting. Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney. Any weather mulvaney might be on his way out. There had been some talk for weeks now that after this impeachment inquiry was over that perhaps mulvaney would be out the door but no the president visited said that is not the case. I talked to a senior administration official earlier today. WHO said quote all as well With Mick Mulvaney and that reports of his demise have been greatly lately exaggerated But at the same time we'll if there is talk about bringing in an outsider as per perhaps a new counselor to the president perhaps a new adviser to the President and that what is the North Carolina Republican Mark Meadows told by a couple of administration officials earlier today. That meadows may be coming into the White House. Just not in that Chief of staff role. You'll see what does the White House saying about the fact that Vin Men Alexander Vitamin Lieutenant. Colonel Vincent who's fired also is twin brother. A JAG officer. US Army officer a lawyer working at the National Security Council was also removed. That's right both of these brothers. Were abruptly fired today and the White House for now is is is silent on this matter. All the White House will say at this. Point is that they don't comment on personnel issues of it obviously raises the question Wolf whether or not the president. It himself ordered the firing of these two brothers retaliation against Alexander Vitamin for testifying during this impeachment inquiry. Obviously this is not the the first administration official to feel the heat from this White House. Of course there's the former Ukrainian Ambassador Maria Vich who was essentially forced out According waiting to house Democrats because she was standing in the way of the president's a scheme to exchange military assistance with the Ukrainians of for dirt on former vice president as an Joe Biden and wolf. Obviously this is also going to spark debate. Raise the debate once again here in Washington as to whether or not the president has learned anything from this impeachment. Saga Susan Collins is one Republican senator. Who was saying earlier this week that she believes the president learned something? Learned a lesson in all of this But perhaps the lesson that the president has learned wolf after this entire impeachment. Saga is now over Is that He can get away with. What do you got away with and that he can seek retaliation allegation against people who were testifying against him During those hearings up on Capitol Hill. But we're waiting to find out whether or not the president has more to say in all of this He's a arriving having at the White House just now after an event earlier today down in Charlotte North Carolina. We'll see what if anything he says. All Right Jim Acosta at the White House thank you. Let's go to Capitol Hill Right now. The Maharaja laws you has been getting congressional reaction to Lieutenant Colonel Vitamins. Firing amount of what are you hearing. Democrats are just starting to react now. This of course happened in the past hour. Most I congress has gone for the weekend but some statements are starting to come out one from the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Chairman Eliot Engel. Who was part of that impeachment inquiry in the House he issued a statement that says this is shameful of course but this is also what we should now expect from an impeached president? Whose Party has decided that? He's above the law and accountable to no one in any senators who voted to keep trump in office thinking. He has learned his lesson. Must Answer for this and for whatever parade of abuses abuses. We see in the future now as word was spilling out earlier today that women could be fired. Democrats were already reacting clean. The House Judiciary Committee chairman told reporters reporters just off the House floor. That this subversion of justice and Nancy Pelosi told reporters that she'd be stunned at the president took that step. We'll see how she responds now. Now at the hearing that vitamin participated in before the House Intelligence Committee. He raised serious concerns about the president's phone call with Ukrainian President Zilenski and also was asked about retribution. that he may face and he said it was nothing like the retribution. His family faced when they were in the Soviet Union. Dad I'm sitting here today in the. US Capitol talking to our elected professionals. Talking to our elected professionals is proof that you made the right decision forty years ago to leave the Soviet Union come here to the United States of America in search of a better life for our family. Do not worry I will be fine for telling the truth. Now we're still waiting to see how Republicans react if any and as Jim was noting our number of Republicans who have mentioned that they believe. The president has learned some lessons from all of this. I talked with several of them this week. WHO said they hope that the president has realized that he can't cross a line anymore? Everyone from Rob Portman of Ohio to Susan Collins of Maine Lisa Lisa Murkowski of Alaska others including Senate majority whip. John Thune also said the president. They hope the president's taken something away from this. The only person who reacts so far earlier today with Susan in college he was asked by reporters before firing about the prospects of his removal. She says obviously be concerned about that. But we'll see if there's any more reaction from the president's own party in the aftermath of decision to apparently retaliate against his key witness. Okay Mono thank you montage up on Capitol Hill and other key impeachment witness Bill Taylor under the former top US diplomat in Ukraine toll. CNN's Jake Tapper. That he was deeply worried about smears against lieutenant. Colonel Vincent and Others Watch this. Does it bother you when you see like how Rudy Giuliani was out there. SMEARING IANOVICH and the the dual loyalties smears against Lieutenant Colonel Van and men who you know and I assume you respect to do it must Bali. I of course bothers me anytime I see. Someone like Masha. So you bondage or Alex Steinman Unfairly attacked anyone unfairly. attacked bothers anyone on that thing so certainly. It does discuss this with Democratic Congressman Roque. He's a member of the oversight and Armed Services Committee Congressman. Thanks so much for coming in. Thanks for having me on. Well let me get your reaction action. Was this an act of revenge on the part of the president of some are already suggesting. It's clearly retribution. And the Senate should've expected this. I mean this is a president who has has never expressed remorse never expressed contrition. So I don't know why senators thought he wouldn't do this. This is exactly what he did with Komi. And it's clear he hasn't learned the lessons. Lieutenant Colonel Vindicates served in Iraq was wounded. Probably still has some shrapnel and his body was received medals for his his service and a lot of people are wondering is this the way he really should be treated. Well it's appalling. I mean he's a crew patriot. He served this country as you put it in Iraq. He sacrificed his own body for of this nation and for this president to exert retribution as opposed to just wishing that this whole thing goes away in most politicians they would say wow. I escaped from the skin of my teeth. Let's just move on but this president isn't that type of person and you're you heard that emotional statement that he made before the committee he's a son of Soviet Jewish immigrants who escaped the Soviet Union settled in Brighton Beach Brooklyn established a new life. They came over with nothing. He wound is a wound up in the US military. Are you Zulu tenant. Colonel and a lot of people are wondering. Is this the way somebody like that. Should be. He's a real patriot. He's a patriot. And this is the deepest concern that people have with this president that that he's undermining the very essence of what it means to be American. When you come to this country you know that you will be treated fairly that you won't have some government official no matter how powerful awful target you and here's an individual who's being targeted for as he put it telling the truth and his brother Eugene? His twin brother also kicked out today and and he didn't testify or anything like that. I wonder why they decided to get rid of him. I mean this is. It's almost how mobs work. And maybe that works in New York City when you're doing development but certainly you don't want to have that running the United States government I mean it's just unconscionable you're on the oversight committee of the Armed Services Committee is there anything the US this congress can do about this. Well sure we will investigated we will try to subpoena the information but the question that has to be asked. What more can the Congress do we impeach and the question action is what are the senator is doing? What are the Senator Portman Murkowski and college? What is their call now? What are they going to say about how we hold this president accountable? Well well a lot will depend on. What the Department of Defense the? US military. He's in. He's in the army what they do about about ten internal and his twin brother. You're what what kind of positions they get. Are they effectively sidelined or are they allowed to pursue their military careers. I understanding is they have to go and return to the Pentagon but obviously there's a concern that they will be sidelined and they aren't going to be able to achieve what their potential is. But I think all of this shows that we need an independent prosecutorial agency in our government to investigate the president and officials and not leave that to the Senate and Congress we obviously have not been successful in holding this president to account. Let me show you some images We've obtained CNN. As obtained of Rudy Giuliani's criminally indicted. Associate love partners. You can see there. They were in Spain apparently having a nice time. Do you expect house. Democrats to continue to pursue this entire investigation or the now that the president has been. Impeached is over. It's not over I and partly because the Senate didn't have a real trial there. Were no witnesses. I expect that John Bolton will be called and will testify in the house. He can't evade that testimony when he was willing to testify in the Senate and I think the American people are owed an explanation of everything that went on including Rudy Giuliani's roll. We'll see what happens on that front congressman. O'CONNELL thank you so much we're coming in and stay with us. We have more on the breaking news. Lieutenant Colonel Alexander. Vin Men the White House Ukraine expert on the National Security Council who testified at the trump impeachment hearings. Hearing's getting fired from his White House job late today. We'll other write offs officials who testified also be exported on Ever been locked down. You know suffered a setback. Fired left out it happens. It happens and Mike Bloomberg middle class kid worked his way through college. Got A job started a family boom fired at thirty nine. Would it Mike do us. Do we got back up. Dove back in. He had an idea designer designer new computer able to crunch data and process information in a unique way he built it he sold it. He built more. He sold more. He built a team. He built a company when He created twenty thousand jobs. Bloomberg is a doer. This is Michael. Douglas I've played a president movies. This is real world. This is our world. Mike Bloomberg has takes to win unite the country find some common ground between Democrats Republicans and then lead the way a leadership. Your ship Mike. We'll get it. I'm Mike Bloomberg candidate for president. And I approve. This message paid for by Mike Bloomberg. Twenty twenty the breaking news. We're following lieutenant. Colonel Alexander Vin top Ukraine expert over the National Security Council who testify during the impeachment hearings was fired heard over at the White House. Let's bring in our correspondents and analysts to discuss a Maggie Haberman. Thanks so much for coming in. I WanNa read to your portion of the statement from Lieutenant Colonel Vitamins lawyer. The truth is cost. Colonel Alexander van with his job is career and his privacy. He did what any member of our military is charged with doing. Everyday he followed orders you'll Betas oath. And he served this country even when doing so was fraught with danger and personal payroll and for that the most powerful man in the world bullied by the silent the pliable and the complicit has decided to exact revenge. Maggie what are you learning about this decision. Apparently at the highest levels to fire Lieutenant Colonel Vincent and others twin brother Walser worked at the National Security Council on legal matters. This decision has been in the works for a while. We'll fend really came to a head this week. It was clear that the president was going to be acquitted by the Senate. The president has railed about Alex given for a very long time is complained about his testimony. He has insisted that he was acting outside of his lane. And the president has been encouraged by some of his own advisers. That have been men went too far that he didn't how he's not the one who sets the policy. The president is the one who sets the policy. This is perhaps the least surprising thing that has happened this week. Frankly the president has made clear he was going to make an example of people who went against him in one form former another whether it was Mitt Romney or Alex men but but it is going to you know it is not without Possible Splash back on the president that he is doing this with a military veteran a decorated created military veteran. Somebody who did testify under oath somebody who was speaking about the ideals of the US and that is the message that the president's critics six and his Democratic rivals are going to hammer him over for the next nine months they certainly will and Dan let me play a portion of lieutenant. Colonel Dramatic testimony Before the House of Representatives. Listen to this. What is it about the relationship between the President United States and the president of Ukraine? That lead you to conclude that when the the United States asked a favor like this. It's really a demand chairman The culture I come from the military culture when a senior asks you to do something even if it's play in pleasant it's it's not it's not to be taking as a request it's B. It's to be taken as an order. Her in this case the power disparity between the two leaders My impression is that in order to get the White House meeting. I president Dolinsky would have to deliver these investigations. You think Donna. The president has been emboldened by his acquittal. It certainly looks that way you know. Go back to the statements that we heard from some of the Republicans who were kind of on the bubble or up against the wall well given where they are Geographically Susan Collins for example in Maine up for reelection as we all know this year she and others said they believe that the president has learned his lesson now they were talking more broadly about the fact that they didn't think he was going to call up another foreign leader. And say please investigate estimate my political opponent. But this is you know potentially of the same ilk in that It's it's there's retribution going on here. That is blatant. I mean there's no question that that is what is happening here And it is because it's clear he feels emboldened. I mean that was on display in the East Room of the White House yesterday But what we don't know when I've actually been checking around with Some sources on Capitol Hill is whether there's anything Congress Congress can do about it The House Democrats will likely look into that To See if there's anything that can be done the answer is probably no because the president does have the ability he has a lot of authority including To decide you know what there's maybe as somebody who is a decorated veteran Were active duty not even veteran sitting in the White House. But I want him to go someplace else. I'm the commander in chief. I have the ability to do that. but just a Maggie's point doesn't mean it's not a a bad look or at least easy pickings for political opponents to say. Are you kidding meeting with this move. Bring to To Loo- It seems clear to me that the president was waiting for the acquittal before firing Lieutenant Lieutenant Colonel Vim that he could have fired him over these past couple of months he did yeah. He was waiting for the air to clear on this impeachment. He wanted to have his acquittal. He had the celebration at the White House. Really planting the flag in the end zone saying that I have the Republican Party on my side. I can do what I want at this point. And that's what we're seeing with the dismissal of Of Lieutenant Colonel Veneman the Republicans that did not bat an eye over the dismissal and a smear campaign against Maria von Aversion Ukraine the president feels like those same Republicans will have his back as he gets rid of cetera sort of unceremoniously fires a purple heart recipient and has him escorted from the White House. Republicans who are silent about Marie. Ivanovich your silent about his phone call. We'll be silent about this as well. Yeah he's just pick up on toes Football Metaphor Donald Trump is a guy who spikes and in the end zone. Even if he's not in the end zone right I mean just who he fundamentally is he. He celebrates victories oftentimes victories. Because I think he's right there or are there is a level of blowback. That will come here. It will not be from within the Republican Party. Let's let's be candid if you watched yesterday that celebration. It's pretty clear that the hostile hostile takeover conducted by Donald Trump at the Republican party in two thousand sixteen is now complete. There's a cult of personality there. They for whatever reasons they bought in fear they believe in him wilty whatever they taught in so I think his senses. You took a swing. You missed I'm going to spike the football. I know I'm mixing my metaphors. But that's who the guy is. He doesn't when he doesn't doesn't win. He views this as a total win. And I've said this before if you thought. Donald Trump was wild unbound before post acquittal Donald Trump because his view is impeach me again. You know I think you're going to see even more of that. He will be. I don't know if there is a it's like what's louder than ten but He will be even more emboldened now than he was going to take a break. But I want to put up on the screen once again This graphic of the individuals who testified during all of this. You can see lieutenant colonel now fired at the White House Basseterre. Marie you'RE GONNA vich forced out of a her position in Ukraine Jennifer Williams left the vice president's office early. Bill Taylor left Ukraine rain in January. Tim Morrison resigned from the National Security Council. All gone all right. We got a lot more on all the breaking news right after. Hey Everyone Andrew Aydin here host of the brand new podcast from H. L. N.. Down the hill the Delphi. Mors this is is the story of Abigail Williams and Liberty German. They were typical teams into arts softball snapchat and February of two thousand seventeen. They went for a hike on a a warm day in Delphi. Indiana and vanished nearly twenty four hours after that hike. Their bodies are found in the woods. They've been murdered and the police begin again working a crime scene. They say they'll never UNSEE also found libby cell phone which has video and audio of the killer who three two years later remains on the loose search for down the hill. The DELPHI murderers wherever. You're listening now it just into CNN troy price. The embattled chair of the Iowa Democratic Party says mistakes made during. Monday's caucuses were categorically unacceptable price admitted to reporters that he'd never even personal use the failed APP right at the center of the county controversy seen as Ryan Nobles herbals is joining us with. What are you hearing right? Well if it seems pretty clear here. That price is admitting some level of fault but in that press conference with reporters today. He didn't really get into the specifics as to what he thought. The problems were with the Iowa Democratic Party and their tabulation of the results. He did promise though. An independent investigation would occur at at some point where they would get into the problems and then reveal that to the public now wolf. This is important because we still don't know the final results in Iowa and part of what will take custody get there is whether or not the campaigns ask for re canvass of the vote. They now have until Monday to ask for that. I caught up with Bernie Sanders today to ask if his campaign would be among among those asking for one and this is what he say. I know you told me yesterday. You WanNa move past Iowa but your campaign still has the option to ask for re canvass of the vote there. Is that something we are exploring you open to that idea could ask for a re canvass of the whole state. I certainly not GonNa do but I think there was some precincts where there are some pretty apparent irregularities regularities in New York Times notice NBC. Notice that other media notice that I think we will last The Iowa Democratic Body to take a look at those precincts so you can see sanders doesn't want the entire state to be looked at again. And that's in part because he's ready to move on to New Hampshire and even though the Iowa results are in the rear view mirror ear what happened. There are certainly changing his. Focus here in New Hampshire today. He really started to sharpen his attacks on Pete. Buddha judge of course the candidate who was neck and neck with him. I'm in Iowa specifically going after Buddha judge and his donor base listen to what Sanders told me about what he thinks about where the money coming to fund. The Buddha judge campaign campaign is coming from. Do you think that when people receive money from helpful special interest that they really going to stand up to those special interests than do it has to we done for the working class of this country. I don't think so. It doesn't work that way. I mean he might argue that you're calling into question his integrity. I mean people always say that but the the real question is if you are for a CEO of a drug company why would you make a contribution. What do you want out of the goodness of your heart? That is what that is the great a crisis of American politics. It's big money. Interests the drug companies. The insurance companies the fossil fuel industry the finances making huge contributions. So you can bet wolf. No doubt that this is an issue. That's GONNA come up a big time tonight on the debate. Stage the last debate before the vote in New Hampshire on on Tuesday night wolf. I Ryan Noble. Thanks very much. Let's get some insight from our correspondents and experts once again Dan. Basheer up there in New Hampshire right now Does anyone really stand to gain. If there's here's a recap of the Iowa caucuses the Iowa Democratic Party. I mean that's about and the Democratic National Committee. Maybe that's about it right now as far as I can see because you know they're trying to find a way to save face and that's a really uphill climb at this point. Would it be nice for Bernie Sanders for people to judge to have finality And to really understand at the end of the day what the votes it's our. Maybe but you just heard Bernie Sanders with Ryan. He heard him on the stump And same with At their kind of day in their campaigns for the most part have accepted what happened or didn't happen. Accepted the chaos at this point and They're trying to focus on what's happening right here in New Hampshire And much more importantly what happens in Nevada South Carolina Super Tuesday and beyond you the president of course is immediately seizing on the the chaos that occurred in Iowa. Listen To this now I understand devotes are fried in Iowa they They couldn't even take a simple tabulation and yet they're telling you how to run the country and how to run health care. I think they've tried their votes on computer. I think of it all the money that the Democrats and the votes of FRY stamp no idea who won they have no idea he's clearly gloating reading. What are you hearing Maggie I don't know what fry the votes but he's not. He's not wrong that this really could not be a big mess if they had actively been trying to make it as big a MS And and that is all on the Democrats but what this president has done consistently in the campaign and as president is is accelerate the lack cafe's institutions that people have had for a while now long predating him that's kind of his brand and what he does and he is just throwing accelerate on what is already eroding distrust his trust in this process in Iowa at that of course it's going to raise questions and concerns for the future going forward. Not just for the caucuses but people are concerned about elections security and about whether the vote is going to be counted safely whether their votes will count and he is feeding into that because it it benefits him I think this where he gets criticized for that is from people who want to see a president not accelerate a lack of faith in institutions who think that a president ought to be setting the tone but this is what he does and it's not surprising to see him. Do give it here. You have the Democrats better. Get it right into Hampshire on Tuesday. We don't want a similar situation to what are you. There are some people who say that president trump trump wants to run against Bernie Sanders that he wants to run against. Joe Biden there that maybe he thinks that running against Buddha judge would be best because of the big contrast between you know someone who's has only a little bit of experience in the small city. I think what the President what the Republicans the campaign want is for a repeat of what we saw in Iowa. No clear victor no clear understanding any of WHO's emerging from Iowa and a long drawn out process so as president is able to amass millions of dollars in fundraising with no real opposition. The Democrats are fighting it it out with no real front runner and I think that's something that he's trying to Shape he's trying to interject himself into the democratic. Primary is going to be doing a rally in New Hampshire. I'm sure ahead of the New Hampshire vote and he wants to go out and go on as long as possible without any clear clarity about what the rally in Iowa just before. The Iowa caucuses as well. Oh you say this has been a very good week for the president it has and he look he I think tried to sabotage himself with this celebration as he called it yesterday. Okay which you know talking about the question. Geology of Mitt Romney of Nancy Pelosi saying that the people who oppose him are evil but even in spite of that look at the week again. He's uh-huh Jeb. Bush said Donald Trump is a candidate. He'd be a cast President Jeb. Bush didn't get a lot right in the two thousand sixteen campaign he got that right Chaos Works Donald trumps favorite to toews point chaos in Iowa state of the Union speech. Republicans love the Democrats hated it. Donald Trump likes that the acquittal in the Senate again very pointed partisan thing and by the way Gallup polling shows him at his highest point forty nine percent job approval ninety four percent of Republicans that is a recipe the P Four Donald Trump's success is polarized the two parties as much as humanly possible. And then hope you can win enough independent and unaffiliated voters because they they like the economy even if they don't like Megi the January jobs Numbers that just came out today. Two hundred twenty five thousand jobs added three point six percent unemployed unemployment. It's the economy stupid As James Carville Houston's say those are pretty good numbers. Those are pretty good numbers. It's the economy stupid but it's also have the president acts in the things he does Chris just said if he can keep himself from doing that long enough over the course of the next nine months. He's a favorite to win reelection. Just is that just doesn't mean he will but he certainly has favorite. That's an important point everybody standby there's more news. We're following including this. The plight of passengers trapped on cruise ships because of the the corona virus warranties unsuited welcome to the steam room everybody Ernie Johnson and Charles Barkley we own a role right now. Is this a chance to blow off. Steam yes I can't brag the show but that doesn't make you an apple subscribing download the steam room on your favorite podcast APP every Thursday subscribed Senator Bernie Sanders. Heads into Tuesday's New Hampshire primary riding high after a very strong. Finishing the Iowa caucuses. He has far more social media followers than any other other Democratic candidate but as our senior investigative correspondent Drew Griffin explains. Some senators fans are using bullying and hostile tactics on social media To try to drown out his critics. Say One thing bad about Bernie Sanders online anywhere and strident sanders. Supporters may attack you personally multiple targets described to CNN. What they call a sanders swarm an online army of supporters on facebook twitter? Read it SOM- even digging into their personal lives trying to out their identity bully the and frightened them into silence. Mit Lecturer Michael. Try says over and over again the bullying works the type of harassment that occurs is deeply hurtful. It's scary it's frightening Personally I've had my job threatened online. Many people have experienced far far worse and and unless someone is willing to do more than yes. It can only escalate because it's effective and outspoken Elizabeth Warren supporter whose daughter with Down Syndrome is just recovering from cancer. Was told your stupid like your retard kid. Too Bad the cancer didn't kill her sanders. Opponents are told to eat this poop hoop and shut the F. UP activists dying of a LS tweeted support for Elizabeth Warren and was told go f yourself when the Working Families Party also endorsed Warren. It was swarmed bloodless scumbag hacks corrupt shameless one user told the group's leader who who is black slave masters had coerced his endorsement. The abuse so bad sanders had to respond tweeting that that a LS activists was was actually a friend and in another tweet the candidates signal to his followers that this campaign condemns racist bullying and harassment of any kind nine. It's not clear if the Sanders followers responsible are listening in recent weeks. Trolling Senator Elizabeth. Warren has a snake and in post after post host labeling mayor Pete Buddha judge a rat to victims of this tells. CNN they were so afraid of the online attacks they faced. They don't even honest to describe the circumstances for fear it would start up again. They both just questioned the politics Bernie Sanders in a public setting and their personal personal lives were exposed and attacked. Ben Decker who studies online harassment and threats says it's unclear how this warm start but sanders supporters have been organizing and facebook twitter and Reddit communities since two thousand sixteen and have only grown stronger and while social media media harassment happens across the political spectrum decker says the sheer number of Sanders. Online supporters sets them apart from other followers. I think any time where you have far greater numbers you have far greater potential for harm and in the online community there are far greater sanders supporters. Here's decker use. FACEBOOK's data to analyze all the pages created by the supporters of Democratic presidential candidates and found the pro sanders pages have have two and a half million followers with nearly fifty eight thousand posts in a three month period far more than all the other Democratic candidates combined if only a fraction of those engage in nasty comments. They're still capable of bullying critics off social media and that kind of bullying. That happens. Askale as it's it's crazy. Sanders has insisted in several interviews. Those who hate online are not welcome in his campaign and in a statement to CNN CNN. His deputy communications director says the senator has said loudly and clearly there is no room in the political revolution for abuse and harassment harassment online. Not Enough say those who study online abuse if you're not condemning it consistently if you're proxies within your campaign are are not working against it and trying to do something different than than. That's a real issue. An issue of abuse online bullying and even threats that experts say is only growing drew Griffin. CNN Boston coming up our cruise ships the next hot spot for the deadly corona run a virus. Some experts worry close quarters could lead to rapidly spreading disease. The wait is over her coming to H.. L. Ed all new episodes of forensic files follow the evidence and crack the case forensic files to premiere Sunday February. Worry twenty-third at ten only H.. L. Tonight Corona Virus Infections on cruise ships are becoming a very serious areas concern as governments around the world struggle to get a handle on the scope of the deadly disease. Brian Todd is working. The story for US Brian. What e-learning we've still got thousands? Thousands of people quarantined on to cruise ships in Asia including several Americans who've tested positive for the virus today a scare along America's east coast when the crowded cruise ship pulled into a New Jersey port. The anthem of the season was just on a standard Caribbean cruise. But the alarm over corona virus has gotten so so strong that when the cruise ship docked in Bayonne New Jersey passengers were screened and for people who had been to mainland China in late January but not to the province where the virus virus originated were taken for additional testing half a world away on another cruise ship in Japan. Rebecca Frazier is one of about a dozen Americans who have tested positive for corona virus. Scared and hard to know what the future holds. Since I don't really feel sick right now. Like is it GONNA get words. Learn thousands of people on at least two cruise ships in Asia have been quarantined confined to their cabins which one expert says could present a new set of dangerous. The cruise ships are petri dishes. One thing that concerns me about having so many people on a ship like that is you're keeping them in close quarters where you may actually be amplifying transmission this mission from sick people to other people. Meanwhile the latest planes out of Americans being evacuated from Wuhan the Ground Zero of Corona virus arrived in the the. US Today in hundreds of them are being quarantined on military bases one wearing a mask and streaming about conditions inside fest. We are allowed to do anything inside fast but not allowed to go outside tonight. There are more than thirty. One thousand confirmed cases of Corona virus around the world with more than on six hundred thirty deaths almost all those cases inside mainland China but the virus has spread to more than twenty five countries and regions. There are a dozen cases in in the US although the virus represents a potentially very serious public health threat and we expect to continue seeing more cases here the immediate immediate risk to the American public is low at this time tonight. There's been social media revolt inside China accusations that the communist government covered up the early stages of the outbreak citizens are outraged over the fate of Dr Lee when Lee Act who was among a group of whistle blowers who sounded early alarms about corona virus. Lee was accused of rumor. Mongering of being disruptive and was targeted by police he later contracted the virus himself and died Chinese President Xi Jinping League. Meanwhile uncharacteristically disappeared from public view for several days at the height of the outbreak. The need to avoid to be the public face of this issue. You is is quite pressing because she is extremely careful about reputation and about his image analyst. Youn Sun who monitors Chinese he's media says the Beijing government is still blocking information about the virus like an online article about Dr Lee's death. What it says is that the content of this article Toco Violence Related Regulations Inflammation on the Internet space therefore it cannot be viewed? President trump would not criticize China for covering up the outbreak outbreak. The president telling reporters today he's had at least one lengthy discussion with Xi Jinping about combating the virus and he says the Chinese are working hard to defeat it. This comes as the president and his team are escalating their own response to the outbreak with some tougher new measures corona virus getting new levels of attention inside the White House. Now that impeachment is behind them. Wolf are Brian. Thank you Brian. Todd reporting coming up a key impeachment witness and his brother fired from the White House just two days after the Senate voted to acquit. The president. Is it retribution for telling the truth.

president White House President trump Senate United States Senator Bernie Sanders CNN National Security Council Donovan Vincent senator Iowa vice president New Hampshire Lieutenant Colonel Van Susan Collins Colonel Alexander Vin official
Jeff Mason & Kailani Koenig Plus Christopher Wylie: The building with no fire exits

The Chuck ToddCast: Meet the Press

49:42 min | 1 year ago

Jeff Mason & Kailani Koenig Plus Christopher Wylie: The building with no fire exits

"Before we begin I'm GonNa give you a little warning there's going to be some unavoidable cursing on today's episode because we have a book title to discuss good afternoon from Washington. I'm Chuck Todd and this is the Chuck Todd Cast. He blew the whistle on the link between facebook and Cambridge Analytica. He'll join me later discusses book called Okay Warning Mind Fuck came back is making a rare stop in Washington and Reuters Jeff Mason stepped away from asking president trump tough questions about Ukraine to join me today Jeff has latest fundraising numbers not so much what gives discuss those third quarter winners and losers but no one knows the domino effect a whistle blower can have like Christopher Wiley and what are they thinking and in twenty twenty news and ageism debate swirls around Bernie Sanders following his heart attack and Joe Biden's latest polling strong but podcast lands in your feet it's what happened last week but as Democrats are still issuing subpoenas as a Republican colleagues grapple with their defense even inside the White House has an answer to your question actually he did answer the question the next day that's the irony of all of this guy hi good to see you what brings you to Washington I should know the to see after a sort of a long pause or a long delay or thinking process let's make this over process at the White House gas and we can just curse all the time I don't think that is a way to save America sometimes is over cursing but first twenty twenty producer kind Lonnie Tony The bad actor an air bags packed so here we are with impeachment and today being that conversation but it's not impeachable at least that's the that's the strategy that outside Republicans are taking and some were we're GONNA we're not evidence so to me it wasn't a surprise Jeff Win the White House decided Gordon Sunland Not GonNa let you testify that the tragedy I think so I mean I think we're beginning overseeing me on this so I'm quoting that title there I said it told you we had some unavoidable expletives after that I am not going to be one of those hosts though that says I'm on a pod look inside but there's certainly movement but he was my big takeaway jeff and I think the White House almost sees it the same way as you have a public that is certainly among independence a response to prevent new information and it is to me we've got a new poll come out a couple of hours by the time the Sicher feed it's GonNa mostly thanks for few days I'm actually going to New Hampshire on a plane right after we're done with that's exactly where you always belong sadly no matter where you go we out and and frankly there's a semi similar finding as the ABC Polo leader we we do not have the impeachment numbers quite as juiced as they do on the district that went for trump I seven points in two thousand sixteen at flipped blue with this congressman last year and even talking with folks that were there before Republican voters there are kind of ingrained in supporting the president no matter what they kind of will Pete Fox News talking point can't is is telling look last week was filled with tangible evidence text messages actual testimony from somebody who was appointed by President Trump in court volker I think they want more information they're willing to to sort of gauge the gauge the evidence one in five Republicans appear to be open to seeing the former special envoy but Kai feel like the response in America outside of the Beltway and outside the Acela corridor is with if you hate trump that's just trump and if you love trump that is thinking this is serious and this is deserving investigation but independence aren't in our with Democrats on everything except removing him from office you've been doing this around the country you've been going to hall meetings I don't think there's anybody in our staff that has talked to more actual Americans Dan Linda and the plot to break America that is the actual title there's no asterisks there's no bleeps so welcome to podcast land the FCC is not GonNa play ball and I think the fact that the for the first time did that today with the EU investor who had come to Washington to do it and apparently says he's disappointed he the beltway or in New York City or in Times Square then Yucai so anyway yeah and what was interesting about this at a coffee shop we were in East Lansing Michigan this is yes she was one of those members of Congress that wrote The Washington Post op Ed that kind of helped to change the tides towards this but they're she even showed up these are people that didn't know she was coming and she was no impeachment for the long run everything Muller Yeah and she only became a yes on ending inquiry with you what that strategy is and the strategy seems to be a we're not going to cooperate me we're going to say or we're going to accept that some people may not like what he said in Ukraine was tied to the investigation they want something very specific they really repeat back to you that they believe that the president of the United States is the that's just trump like in a weird way it's the same response while trump's being trump twi thought he should be out of office in the first place or that's trumpy and trump it's why I threw him in there in the first place Republican voters after the Mueller investigation and that sense nothing really happened after that they really believe that this is just an excuse brought on by the Democrats yeah I last week I was at a town hall event coffee with your congresswoman event for Eliza Slatkin and I should if law enforcement officer of the United States and he can investigate whatever the heck he says it's legal then it's illegal yeah and I think there's a level of exhaustion among a lot of should never mind because it's being reported we're not listening saint certain angles of it you know they don't see a very specific incidents that the money let's just try to clean up the mess after he swerves off the road it used to be John Kelly your hr McMaster they would they would prevent alert they want to Blur Ukraine and Muller into one story so that people are exhausted from Muller they've been trying to do this to me ever since I got an elected ever since I got an happy at twitter it is clear whatever whatever filter did exist is it and I think Bolton was probably the last filter curtly about getting rid of the president and even just when you go to town halls it's pretty rare that I will hear a question that is about directly about four tim from doing what he did on Syria for instance which is just tab air to one phone call and have a policy decided immediately after the phone call and just shoot it out regulated this is just the next piece it's all a hoax it's all a scam that's that's those are the words the president is using and I think I don't have the privilege or the okay they will be I'm sure it'd be delighted at the to rally that are happening this week to clap when he says this is a scam it is it's interesting to me to see because they failed in that attempts to try to get rid of the president that's I mean back to what we were saying before that's a big chunk of the White House strategy as well on of the trump campaign they wanted his seen that his predecessors didn't succeed and if anything that his predecessors attempts at that just upset the boss and I think yeah I think Mick Mulvaney wants to keep the job in policy issue as much versus domestic issues how fear folk is the White House of Mitt Romney Oh I don't think they're fearful of him at all talk about but frankly that's also just not what Democratic voters seem to be clamoring for information and you know they care about healthcare they care about the economy they cared it's back to you and they really kind of firmly believe that the media is out to get him the information are they they're apparently the new information George I don't think Warner Sanders how yeah I mean there were some other smaller candidates seth moulton trial steak his candidacy on this if you go watch Tulsi Gabbard that's all right teach me issue regardless of what folks which side they fall on it it has really permeated into the American consciousness in a way that it feels like other Washington it does feel as if that the that at the White House nobody attempts to erect guardrails anymore around him that instead it's thank you so try to try to make that an asset you know trump is a fighter and he likes to see himself as a fighter and he seems to embrace any kind of time that he's in a battle with another side for wwe he likes being the guy that the audience does boo sometimes yeah and they also probably realize this and I think the fact that they use that phrase in their first round of TV ADS is an acknowledgement out over a year out acknowledging that yeah more people hate him like don't and stories haven't I was in an airport in Las Vegas last week and all of these flights are delayed so everybody was hanging out at the restaurant and everybody just started talking not that weird stuff that is on twitter but their thirty second ad the Michael Bay trailer type of Ad This isn't a time for Mister Nice guy aware they seemed to be more dead set against him I don't see if he won the last time because it was a referendum on Hillary Clinton not on him not their own self gratifying polls that they make trump it's the new tagline to trump's first round of advertising of the stuff that is being seen on regular television now they're just maybe irritated by it the most interesting tell them me Kai was that the the trump people at least repulse and believe the actual public polls and not their own it's called acting or not and he's not trying to impact that at all you know what's interesting as the president or I think really shows vulnerability and his management of foreign policy that there is not a single Democrat in this campaign that has is is interested in trying to other than T- Biden talking generally about restoring allies. You hear Warren it seems like it's gone yeah no we're seeing that on foreign policy mean area one is a good example given what the the decision Mick Mulvaney has no interest in in preventing trump from doing anything was an start any of that I just was witnessed and this is why Jeff I sometimes think that we in Washington overrate the president's chances or sanders say that but the only person that I think has thought about a coherent foreign policy in the top of the top five or six candidates I said a biden is hurt square the first time that you throw that out there and there's a lot of people who were like you know I don't know nothing about that election felt good things the base really does like and get those people out to the polls and maybe play the victim and say that try I happen Kyw I mean is it does it feel like a wet blankets been dropped on the Democratic race you know I think it's in a way it has put job my sense they just they just dismiss him largely they don't think he has any sway in that they don't worry about him in that Senate yet do I don't think so I think they should point but percent unfavorable rating fifty three percent is it fifty four percent of Americans voted for somebody other than Donald Trump right so we know that it's a solid chunk of people they're not only not going any he essentially doesn't say anything even not just to the questions that are about Hunter Biden but also to questions that are about the president's abuse of power and I think right whether it was wikileaks co me a lot of people so rush we know why he cares about saying not so often I wanNA move to the presidential on his a and a tough position he has hardly held any public events this is all happening finally spoke to the press about this a few times but his or even spent all these people you elected me fair and square in two thousand sixteen they're trying to undo what you did right don't let them do it the problem is not everybody believes he was elected get just has really underscored his uncomfortableness in talking about anything that's really related to his family the White House obsession with Biden the press score has been staking him outside of his events sense this broke trying to ask questions and yell questions at him as he leaves and I it's clearly real it's amazing that Biden hasn't been able to translate the president's hourly obsession about the by I mean how much do you hear that well that's I mean I think the question is if if anybody starts getting in line behind Mitt Romney then it would raise some alarm bells some alarm bells but now I think is a referendum on do you want four more years of this or not and that to me is the worst place for trump to be if it's a just about upper down on him he has no chance at all unless you're talking about the economy no no upward I mean e about if it's all about him I don't think even he can do that he cannot do this without tearing down the the the the Democratic primary really there is another story what if what have you noticed in the in the two weeks since impeachment launched awards Biden and Clinton Hillary Clinton he's he wants her to run again I I get that guy seems to be like if I were him I'd WanNa Rerun Sixteen to I don't see how this his biggest problem that impeachment is done what you're saying there jet then saying there jeff is impeachment is now created this guarantees some of this Ukraine stuff's first came out where he yelled at the reporter saying ask the right questions it almost came across it came across as angry among themselves about impeachment and what was going to happen with the president on whether or not he was going to be impeached what what happened it was just an a positive story overall for him to having questions raised about whether there was a conflict of interest whether or not anything came out of that in terms of investigations or not it's still not that's what trump wants Chi right he wants bind to be seen as just another member of the establishment who plays by those old rules that always seem to benefit somebody else and not you the traffic they're already setting themselves up fine fine you need a tough guy you know that's what they're going to need a tough guy to do everything from China to immigration to all of the with the exact same it 'cause it's the only path that he may have but it is amazing obsession by their absolutely focused themselves into something like this so early President Jeb Bush Marco Rubio might not be doing this but this is just only going to increase for Joe Biden or whoever the Democratic nominee is as we go forward he's not going to be afraid to bring in stories about somebody's family or their past into this I just we saw that happen business with him as my business with him and I've buried two children you WANNA keep attacking my kids go ahead but I'm never gonNA throw him under the bus and I'm never going to attack them no matter what I think like I don't that trump comes across as angry and I thought to myself interesting is that the right play for him for by for Biden I think angry I would I don't understand I'd be the man has yes the man has a solid fifty three percent against him all the time you see our new poll it's wit the disapproval rating the dilemma of if he if trump went again and he didn't run he's thinking to himself what what if I were the only guy that could stop that guy and turning this into a a a the devil you know versus the devil you know it's the only chance he has and I think that's a good point I think that Ben Politics are putting him in the spotlight my my life choices have made him make certain choices so am I gonNa sit here and publicly humiliated like all of you are trying to make me do know so us and lecture my son about his ethics or this whatever disagreements I have with my grown son I'm keeping between him and he's not on the ballot I've it's my like it is I'm offended for him I think it's disgusting what's happening the way we're character testing people left and right now it's us in it's I mean Joe Biden knows that his family has been through a lot and I think this was part of his calculation and deciding whether or not to enter the race but at the same time listen it's very relatable it's also one of the issues I understand that led to the vice president Biden really debating whether or not he wanted to get h.w Bush famously sent a letter to all of his sons named with the last name Bush which said when he was getting ready to become president in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine anyway it is this really does hurt but yeah I think this really underscores also how president trump and his allies are not afraid to play dirty and inject Hillary Clinton in two thousand sixteen and they went to the to the depths there look I just think the Joe Biden has moral high ground on this in a way it's like you know what everybody wants me to throw my son under the kicked off of I thought somebody was character assassination me Anderson which he's very sensitive about and yet I mean I think to your point this isn't mayor rather than the hunter I mean I I do think Joe Biden is GonNa Answer for why he didn't send a letter to his family's at Georgia you were seeing him and we're seeing his campaign to try to turn all of the questions to the issue of the president and his abuse of power and what was that on him I think what was striking Kaime Union both chuck and I covered Vice President Biden at the White House during the Obama years it's it was striking to me to watch his initial reaction then what am I doing in my one of my hunter I don't envy knowing who he is I don't envy 'cause decision on this guy there's no doubt Biden's got to answer that question but I think you can defend your family and it's a question we should pass a lot to basically arrate right it's laughable that the last name trump seems to worry about what somebody with the last name of Biden whether they're doing something up that's the hypocrisy alert here but media this happening to happen to you see it to yourself right jeff online I mean you know it's it sucks and what did you know and self awareness by the president to say you know what do unto others as you want to be done unto you know it's that there's a value structure here that I think that Biden could wrap himself around that's just questions on this immediately he's he's talking a little and we I hear more from him but I don't know if they thought that this was just go these ethics rules that's a way for Biden to get in front of this too and they're not doing that no I think the way you articulated something that they should probably pay attention there they have it in their head and I'll tell you why I'm seeing they look like the Clinton two point Oh campaign they overly protective of of a candidate or Biden to feel like a victim here but it doesn't erase it does feel reached in using it like this was a very legitimate political hit on by that could have been effective and he overreached and so they've actually allowed you of Hunter Biden where it makes Biden look like just another member of Congress that just finds a way for his family get rich off of the fact that that trump basically ovary away or what but I think there's you know there's also a level by the way this could have come out at a worst point like in a weird way this damaging issue Mr for Wiley after a quick break you'll remember Christopher he's appeared on meet the Press Cambridge Analytica and the different color here we'll be right back they're protecting a candidate who has no interest in talking which either look as bad right as I said I mean he has not been out forward in responding a raise this on a call with a foreign leader for example but had kept it for a debate or kept it for just just getting it out into the public sphere it it could have been the era of news text Msnbc two six six eight six six to subscribe between facebook and the data mining company Cambridge Analytica joining me now is Christopher Wiley Wiley is the one who blew the whistle on the AAC impossible we also should make the Dennis Hastert son can't open a lobbying shop Bill Nelson son can open a lopping shop like you know should you know we've gotta clean up Doc Biden's afraid of giving that answer of some answer and you write about the timing it's it's early number one and number two I mean if the president hadn't some ways really well but I still think we haven't decided what is the Cambridge Analytical Story is it a story of of political hunter Biden's we all have relatives I mean you just sit here like are we really what are we doing and just the lack of the lack of which is now available Christopher thanks for coming on the todd cast here thanks for having me so we've spoken a few times and I feel like I know the story and relation is it a story of discovery about the lack of privacy with social media what would you say this is what is history going to say a place that he wants worked he documents is account of the SOG on his new book mind Fuck Cambridge Analytica and the plot to break America was the story of Cambridge of this Cambridge Analytica facebook thing yeah I mean I think in a lot of ways it's a story of intersections and I learned this myself writing the book when you sit down and you actually put pen to paper and you're like okay what actually happened and you know sort of to be a big first time podcasters say to me I think you both be back again thank you for that great conversation I'm GonNa Pause right here we'll be back in a second with into the race at first I look I think it's that big was going to I story I think he has to live with the decision that he decided to run and I understand the dilemma he faced I think he very damaging to Biden and much less Ota the president guys are going to have to pause it here Kai glad to have you do jeff chronically my journey the company from when I was recruited to work at a military contractor to research you know counter extremism and in High It's Katy Tur want to keep up with MSNBC while you're on the go subscribe to the Msnbc daily newsletter you'll get the best of what you've missed during this unprecedent the the abilities and capabilities that we were able to develop because of a completely unregulated tack environments particularly with Social Media and then all of the intersection ends at various points throughout that journey where you know talking with all kinds of different Russian officials and Russian executive how how do narratives evolve online to that being you know co opted by the outright the the ability in some ways the the story came Gianluca touches on many aspects of what we're talking about now whether it's the trump Russia investigation or brexit or ebbs you know who were all very interested in the data that the the company was acquiring so you know I think that the responsibilities that Kaieda's but I do go to a bunch of trump and they eat up every single thing that he says and and not to give you a non answer but you know used to it from the I'll give you the political answer then Yeah because you know when I when I actually write it so that people could actually see sort of beginning to end the complexities that exist in it so take me back did you. This has always been something data privacy and I think that's what's that's actually what's so interesting about the story and you know Dick why I wanted that has a spy uses a few spicy words but I how is impeachment playing out on the trail the news is moving fast and like last week there may be big developments by the time the he was the goal figuring out how to gather as much data on people to persuade or to manipulate the point was when I saw things like psychological profile struggled which with you said this earlier on in one of the first interviews you and I did and that was that you knew that Cambridge analytic goal was to see at the time to try to unpack how does radicalization work what what is the role of a lot of these sort of social media platforms what the military called the Yom's young unmarried men and starting to unpack what makes them vulnerable to being exploited by extremists and when you so when you look at emerging security threats particularly in the West right military spending often is focused on TV shows that you do and even hang out with some of the people and have all the same kind of interests that you do and then you know you later discovered that the reason why right you know in that situation if you were on that blind date you would be vulnerable to being manipulated because you know this this person knows a lot more yeah so one of the things that I sort of talked about in the book is is at least I try to answer that question when I first started I was recruited look I never good thing yeah yeah I mean you know I never thought you know that I would end up working on something for national security purposes you like that's like a plot of a recent movie where where somebody decides that they're overly prepared for a date and they get caught anyway you think when that was when you heard that pitch well imagine for a moment that you're going on a blind date right and you go and you meet is or forums the digital space in general and can you anticipate who likely is going to be a target and who's going to be vulnerable and so when we first started looking at more about you than you know about them and not that creates an imbalance of power and that's you know in a lot of ways how manipulation happens and so when you know you know that you know tanks and missiles and things that blow up you know because a lot of generals are like boys with toys they like things that blow up but when you look at it to work at a military contractor before came agenda Lyrica even existed and you know what we first started on what kind of contractor what do they do shake it recruited online disseminated as messaging online it organized online did everything online and so there was a concerted effort you know at the time this is when Isis was just emerging a lot of different radical jihadist groups were there was a lot of you're right that was a lot of someone and they start talking about what movies do you like or what TV shows do you like and it and it so happens that they listen to the same bands that you do watch the Kristen Hey could we can we at this yeah and so when you look at you know Isis was a digital I mobile I operate it was like a neon haired person with news ring and whatnot right I'm not really the sort of archetype of an army recruit but I was able to apply my skills and well luckily we don't have to date Cambridge car or facebook but you know the the the point that I'm making is they seemed so perfect for you was because they spent two years stalking you right yeah they learned they learned after you talk to your friends and what kind of ops information and psychological operations and raise any yellow flags with you won't because I knew in terms of you know how building algorithms and identifying patterns in data and all of that and I thought was really cool and so did Steve Bannon was I mean I'm just curious when did your value antenna go up and I say this not like it seemed like at some point you're into it and then you're like wait a minute what are we doing makes them vulnerable and more and more likely to go down the path of radicalization you know at the time I thought hey this is interesting I I've never thought your NFL do good And when he came to discover what we were working on through an introduction a mutual introduction to the time my boss you know people who would be vulnerable to radicalization in in other parts of the world when we got acquired by an outright billion you know he realized that our understanding of essentially how to study what makes certain kinds of people tick in the the work of the company flipped from mitigating radicalization to encouraging people to explore this aspect of themselves encouraging and catalyzing around Steve Bannon got put in charge that work inverted so instead we were looking at the same kinds of targets young unmarried men in particular who are more prone to paranoid allegation but instead terms and that that could be inverted and so what I what essentially happened was the work that we were doing initially to look at more radical and paranoid thoughts how agenda when that script got flipped I mean you know immediately when Mercer bought the company Gino immediately when you met with Bannon tell me about your first meeting with eighteen when he was just the guy who ran Breitbart and you know he was looking you know when Breitbart was founded by Andrew by before he died they really and this was you know I think it's important to point out like this was out of time when this was before he was the Steve Bannon right twenty followed this idea that politics exists downstream from culture. So you know if you're if you want to make a lasting change for your movement goes a little bit about a lot yeah and conversationalist you can have a fantastically spiraling conversation that goes into all sorts of areas of the world he's curious he's the type of person in some ways people like because he's curious yeah and you don't have to leave politics but he's he's always reading and he's always curious and and and and by the way that is often the same target that you would have for radical jihadist groups you know people Z.. Bana well I I mean I actually really liked him when I first met him everybody does but this is a fascinating guy yeah I mean he like our conversation talker focus on culture day to day politics but the unfortunate thing for them was that Breitbart essentially became like glorified hate blog for straight white dudes who can't get laid you literally can't succeed in life and just are very frustrated they feel marginalized and but so he wasn't breaking through to the American a weird manipulative and freaky. I'm sorry well it it isn't it isn't because you know if I said for example that is for manipulative purposes not discovery purposes but anyway well when win the company got acquired originally Xanthi apologist and sociologists that we sent around is that there is a a huge amount of tension in American society and indeed there is religious extremism computer science he made all of his money deploying data and said the where a lot of people on the team originally thought what there is you know people who are prone sick conspiratorial thinking and it was at that moment that I think Steve Again We said sociologists and anthropologists all throughout America yes hard stop I'm sorry that alone is Bizarro Land as soon as we started exploring the United States so they acquired the company and you know they hired tons and tons of putting tens of millions of dollars the company mine coming to events or or attending focus groups and to see just the rage on their face about things that were made up and anthropologists to Africa would yes we're America though we're we're trying to learn something new about ourselves to manipulate ourselves they they only reason to do perhap- voter hat do right yeah and so but one of the things that one of the feedback that we got from the in psyche with Breitbart and he was looking for a way of expanding his you know his arsenal and when he got introduced to the military contractor that I was working out the powers that be within the company executives in the company wanted was a way of forecasting behavior to make money especially for an a that was the ultimate goal forecasting the things that people were told you know and I talked about this in the book is you know when you look at you know the time penny dropped in his headed and the same people that we were studying those are the people who were engaging with his site and for me that was you know I had a difficult time with that because I could not see any justification you as a company we're creating we're doing the the company has started conducting some of its experiments you know to see video footage of people who were the targets of this manipulation hard tons of people and we started by sending sociologists and Anthropologists America and one of the first things and and the thing that's interesting about studies there's some of them went and did presentations Petersburg talking about how you can you know use online profiling and online data and you know as soon as you know we started collecting you know all this data that's when all these Russian started come knocking right so like the psychologist the CEO of the company is personal friends with Putin When you look at also the fact that you know when the company started hiring people some of whom worked with former intelligence officers from Russia who were then managing projects which included for example old you know one of the reasons why it was called Cambridge Analytica was because so many of the people involved were based at the University of Cambridge which is no small time ecological experiments on American it was probably one of the and I don't say this flippantly I say this seriously it was probably one of the largest psychological experiments that was ever done in the United States pull projects that asked American voters you know their attitudes towards Vladimir Putin's leadership Russia's claiming Crimea you know that that granted you know they might look slightly different but in terms of a profile of the person who did you discover that it will as soon as adversity when you look at one of the leaders you know in psychological research particularly in this new field of computational psychology a computational sociology where you are two thousand sixteen I mean remember a time when the idea of donald trump becoming president was laughable and the reaction was sort of well you know Donald Trump wiggled from you know like feminist theory about identity to like on the radio when I tell about it he's a voracious reader really he he he he's zoned in on that he zoomed in on that and I remember after you know did and it was only after that you know journalists started really asking questions about what is this company so in the in the book like after I left I went to the United States and I talked to several people some of whom were in the administration and some of whom and let me ask you this all the things that facebook has done to try to rebuild trust to try to convince those of us who are skeptics mark Zuckerberg's life in different in many ways and facebook I don't think he'll be buying a car I don't think he will be either you'd all ask yourself with over eating the situation well you know so in in some cases and I I also talk about the coming knocking and you know why would a Russian oil company wants to know about you know our data assets of American voters and you know there's a Lutheran them and I'm not compensated for that so I have my own issue but that's the way I think about it has facebook done better in protecting peoples were you know very experienced in American politics and I told them about what I'd seen and the reaction at the time again this is I am a big skeptic of of the of the privacy that I mean I think facebook's business is nothing you know it doesn't work if I don't share data with personal data on facebook well I I'm band on facebook and on instagram because after I blew the whistle one of the first things they did rather than actually exploring the specifically on American elections and those were presentations that were made in Saint Petersburg someone had executives from quail which is one of the largest Russian oil company clearly us politics and American voters for some reason for their their they want they know Americans want big gulps with their guests almost any behavior whether it's consumer behavior mill political behavior you name this you're the same person whether you know you put

Washington Jeff Mason president Chuck Todd biden facebook Chuck Todd Cast Cambridge Analytica Mick Mulvaney Breitbart Bana Ukraine Christopher Wiley Warren Bernie sanders fifty three percent fifty four percent
Weekly Roundup: Thursday, March 21

NPR Politics Podcast

32:11 min | 2 years ago

Weekly Roundup: Thursday, March 21

"This message comes from NPR sponsor Comcast. Comcast values your time. That's why you can schedule to our appointment windows, including nights and weekends that way. You can spend more time doing what you love. Comcast working to make things. Simple, easy, and awesome. Hi, this is Melinda. And I'm spitting. My twenty third birthday doing dishes, making dinner and listening to my three favorite reporters on the NPR politics podcast, this podcast was recorded at twelve forty three PM on Thursday, March twenty first unless you're obsessed as I am with these people something has probably changed by the time. You hear this? Okay. Here's the show. Now, I wanna know who. Three. We're drawing lots here. Hey there. It's the NPR politics podcast. I'm Susan Davis. I cover congress. I'm Dominica Montonero political editor, I'm miles parks. I cover voting, and I'm Ron Elving editor correspondent, all right guys. There's two big things. We're gonna talk about this week Democrats wanting to scrap the electoral college, and what their campaign contributions are telling us about the race so far. So let's start with the electoral college, Ron what is the electoral college? Notre college is a group of people who are elected state by state in November of a presidential year on election day, and they are elected to then go represent that state in the electoral college several weeks later when people have stopped paying attention. And they think who knows they know who has been elected president, the actual election of the president takes place in the electoral college some weeks later reflecting the vote state by state, not the national popular vote, but just the vote state by state, that's the electoral college and currently there's five hundred and thirty five electoral. Hundred thirty five hundred and thirty five matches the number of people in congress plus three for the district of Columbia. That's what it is. How can I forget DC? I'm a resident here because you have no representation. That's why I forget. So we don't really count. So the reason we're talking about this. Now is Elizabeth Warren the democratic Senator from Massachusetts who's running for president was doing a town hall on television this week, and she was asked about the lecture college. And this is what she said we can have national voting, and that means get rid of the electoral college. And Elizabeth Warren isn't the only one making this case people digit, the mayor of south bend, Indiana. Who's also running for president. He talked about it to our own Scott detro- this week. We are not as democratic as we'd like to think and as a country that stands for democracy around the world and preaches democracy here at home. We ought to actually be a place where the person who gets the most votes, president gets to win the election. I think that's something. Most Americans intuitively understand. But our system right now doesn't reflect that and twice in my young life, the American people who've been overruled because of the electoral college. I mean, I'm a little surprised that this is an issue that people are seemingly losing their minds over. I guess I'm not I mean, just in seeing the interest in this, especially after, you know, Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by three million votes in the twenty sixteen election. And then you see that she lost by really by some seventy thousand votes. Between three states in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. And if you don't know that by now, you haven't been listening to the podcast, so don't live in those three states. The fact is welcome to the podcast. I mean Democrats have lost now to presidential elections in the past two decades that they won the popular vote in and then lost the electoral college. So I think there's a degree of, you know, base voters feeling like there's an unfairness to the situation. And we can talk about all the reasons why it's bond up that way. But that's what it is. Right. And it fits into this kind of broader conversation. Democrats won a have about voting right now. Which is they just don't see it being done fairly the electoral college skews itself to wear the votes of people living in rural America matter more than the people living on either coast and specifically in urban areas, and we know the people who are living in those urban areas are disproportionately non white voters. So Democrats see those two things as intrinsically. Connected. I mean, there's an obvious very self serving reason, it seems that Democrats care about this issue now is as you look towards the future of the country. It's not unforeseeable that the Democratic Party could continue to win a popular vote and lose the electoral college. Although it's possible for it to go the other way, and for a while in two thousand sixteen Donald Trump was worried about that he could see a map in which he might actually come out with more popular votes. But if those three states that narrowly went for him had all gone for Hillary. He could have lost the electoral college, even if he won the popular vote, and we saw this in two thousand four when George W Bush was reelected he actually had several million votes in the popular vote, but he almost lost Ohio. And if he had lost a high, oh, he would have lost the electoral college and been put out of office by the same mechanism that put him in in two thousand. I mean, Hillary Clinton one out of five of her votes were from New York, and California, you could say that that's a problem with the fact that people aren't counted seemingly one for one or. You could see it as a problem of the Democratic Party. Not figuring out how to appeal to people in different parts of the country. Well, it's this question of is the electoral college a safeguard, or is it a deterrent? Right. Or is it not not a safeguard or does it? Diminish democracy are protect it is the question, and there would be a change. I mean, this is this is the argument and President Trump made this argument on Twitter this week and talking about why he he used to be in favor of popular vote. He had a tweet and twenty twelve at Dominica unearth where he said, I eat said retweeted or at least retreated. Where where where he said that the electoral college is a total disaster for democracy. And now he says, basically if we went to a national vote system. It would eliminate the entire midwest and all rural places from mattering in politics and people I've talked to talk about how different political campaigns would look if we were in a popular vote system. You would have candidates only going to urban centres which to be fair they aren't going there right now. So that would engage a part of the political system isn't being engaged in the campaign system would just be different. But Herbert centers wherever they were. So Atlanta is an urban center. Dallas and Houston are urban center. Right. Certainly Chicago is an urban center. There are many urban centers in Florida. So it does not mean that you're writing all all those states in the mid west. It just means that you're probably writing lawf- anybody going out and campaigning in strictly rural areas. It does currently disproportionately give ROY. Rural America in the middle middle America in advantage in in the system. But if you went to a national vote system defenders of the electoral college say you're forgetting about states like Wyoming and Montana whose voices would basically become become silent. I also think that there's a macro philosophical argument that when you're talking about amending the constitution on an original attent. We should be pretty careful in how we proceed a lot of people support the electoral college in the sense that it was just sort of a baseline foundation of our democracy, and a huge part of how we vote in this country. A very important part is the fact that states, and localities run how elections work this would change that this would make a national election system reality, which is not how the founders initially viewed voting, you know, and there's also an argument to be made that the result of a presidential election should look decisive. So that a president can go forward and lead the country, and the electoral college is almost always not absolutely always. But almost always much more lopsided than the pop. Vote. So it does look as though, and when you look at the map, sometimes it gives this impression is just a visual impression that the country was United behind its new president. Yeah. I mean, I think though the thing that most people in a clear eyed way just come back to is. They sit there and say so someone wins more votes, and they might not be president that doesn't make sense to me. And that's that's why sixty five percent in polls by and large will say why not the popular vote, although for a bit a real talk here. I mean, let's say the democratic president or any president wins in wants to change the electoral college. It's not like it's easy to do. No. At least not in the way that when you start talking about changing the constitution and change in the actual way. Legally how elections are running this country. Let's do amend the constitution. You would need two thirds of the house and Senate to agree and three quarters of the state, legislatures which means three thirteen states can stop it thirteen and that's really hard to imagine. There wouldn't be thirteen states wanted to preserve the electoral college. What did you look at how divided this country is on essentially every issue? I'm not sure you could get those majorities to agree that today's Thursday. No, you wouldn't get it in the house and Senate, and he would certainly not get three, especially. Yeah. You talk about all the things that would be needed this. I think I think in the abstract. It sounds like something that oh, we would just vote the same way we did in two thousand sixteen in count it differently. But it's not nearly that simple specifically because you can imagine a time if you ever needed a recount of that election, logistically speaking when you look at the voting infrastructure. How would you recount that many votes? It it just it's it's hard to grasp what a real system would look like they're so not to be cynical. But this makes this. Great issue to before if you're a democratic candidate for president or any kind of presidential candidate just say, I'm for national popular vote for president and sixty five percent of the people in the country agree with me, and you never have to deal with guns on Wednesday. We're going to happen. Here's the question though. So this seems like it's the latest in what has become a trend of democratic proposals. That are probably unlikely but popular you have Democrats in the house voting on a big package that would've reduced trying to reduce the voting age to sixteen you have presidential candidates like Pete Buddha? Judge and other saying let's put more judges on the supreme court. You have other candidates talking about scrapping the filibuster in the Senate. I mean, there is a macro point here that is maybe that voters are there is a deep frustration about. How government is run and Democrats are trying to capitalize on that. I mean, there's there's a bigger point here. Right. And why not talk about it? Why not put forward? All these ideas. Why not say, let's amend the constitution. If that's what it takes. Or let's come up with the national popular vote through some other means I do think there is an interesting parallel. We're talking a lot of kind of logistics. But when you boil it all down, isn't it interesting? How all of these conversations are the system is rigged. This is something that we have been talking about for a for a while. Now, it's just a different way of talking about the same thing. And get some ways it's good that these conversations provoke more Americans to think about structurally, how elections are done. And what's in the constitution? And how do we elect presidents? I don't know if that's I don't know if the outcome changes. But I think in some ways like forcing people to be reminded of these civics lessons might be kind of healthy on its own. All right. Well, let's take a quick break. And when we get back, let's talk about money, and what it tells us about the candidates in the field right now. This message comes from NPR sponsor. Comcast business. Business has always been driven by innovators entrepreneurs and disrupters. That's why the company who built the nation's largest gig speed network is moving beyond beyond connecting your business to helping you with technology that provides better experiences. Comcast business beyond fast. Visit Comcast business dot com for more support also comes from gusto small business owners where a lot of hats. And some hats are great. But some like filing taxes and running payroll, for example, not so much. That's where gusto comes in gusto provides payroll benefits and HR built for small businesses. They calculate pay and file your federal state and local payroll taxes automatically. So you don't have to plus you can use gusto to offer add on health benefits. More at gusto dot com slash NPR. Support also comes from the Annie E Casey foundation developing solutions to support strong families and communities to help ensure a brighter future for America's children. More information is available at eighty c F dot org. There's a subculture of people fascinated by prime members, you know, like seven eleven thirteen seventeen. Nineteen wrongs go on. There is no fun. Biggest problem number and the hunt for the latest monster prime number can take years you end up with a twenty four million digit long numbers ideas and the power and beauty of math on the Ted radio hour from NPR. And we're back. So let's talk about money. There's been a lot of talk about what these campaign. Donations are telling us as candidates jump into the race. So first Bernie Sanders independent from Vermont. He raised in his first twenty four hours after making an official five point nine million dollars. Then Beto Rourke comes along and makes his campaign official and raises six point one million dollars. So far, they I believe have sort of set the standard. They're far away above everybody else in what they've raised in the first twenty four hours and also it came from a very large base of donors in Bernie Sanders case he said, the average was twenty seven dollars per person per per contribution. I should say and in Beddoe aerobics case, it was also fairly low at forty seven dollars, which means broad based support future voters people who can give again, and again, and this is really important because you know, these numbers are just meant to indicate momentum. These are numbers that were only getting from the campaigns. These aren't even numbers have been. Reported yet to the FCC and release there is a little trust. But verify. We will verify, but we won't be able to verify the first twenty four hours of like when that money came in. We'll just have to see what the number is for the entire quarter on the Federal Election Commission website, which eventually will be posted. And we're coming right to the end of the first quarter here with March thirty first, so we'll get a much better picture of that in the next couple of weeks. I do think it's interesting though, because I'm always skeptical about drawing too much conclusion by fundraising because if money was the thing that mattered most we'd be talking about president Hillary Clinton, Jeb Bush or president Jeb Bush raised the most in the two thousand sixteen field. So you don't want to inflate the importance of it. But in this context, I do think it speaks in some ways to the grassroots appeal of Bernie Sanders Umberto Rourke because it's not an insignificant amount of money. It's not going to get them the nomination, but it does speak to sort of early enthusiasm right and eventual financial viability as a long-running candidate in a very long primary season and then up against. An incumbent president. So you're going to have to be an absolute monster in the world of fundraising in order to compete in the primaries, we've got California moved way up so that with their with their wide window for people casting votes. They're going to be practically one of the very first primaries. And as a result that means you got to advertise in California or get blown away you're going to have to have real bucks. So it's not just support. It's also money money and general election candidate is going to have to raise like two billion dollars probably in this campaign. So it's no joke. Like, you've gotta be able to, you know, spend money in those states, you know, to be able to, you know, get on television, get out the vote create those Email lists these things cost money, and I think one of the potential risks that Democrats right now are running into is there complete sort of a skewing of any kind of big dollar dashes. Right. Do you think Democrats are doing themselves a disservice in taking taking off the table money? They're willing to accept going up against. A Republican president who is can has his own money that he can invest and is said he's going to take all the money that people will give him. I personally don't think. So I mean, it would be. So this is such a nice like you're saying, it doesn't have a huge practical negative, but it has this messaging positive win way. If it's going to align with all of these other anti-big money, you know, tax Bill super billionaires all these messages that kind of aligns with that in a way that's nice, but doesn't actively make really much harder for them to raise money. Well, so far President Trump has actually raised a ton of money. I mean compared to twenty sixteen fifteen he's got one hundred six million dollars that he's raised so far about thirty five million dollars cash on hand through the end of September of two thousand eighteen through that reporting period. So that's a lot of dough Jeb Bush money that is it's a lot of money. It's way more than Barack Obama had in the two thousand ten cycle. He only raised about four million dollars. Or so I mean, remember President Trump? Almost as soon as he took office started doing campaign rallies that were four twenty twenty outside of Washington. He's extended what's usually become a way too long year to year and a half campaign to a four year reelection campaign. Okay. So Trump's raised one hundred and six million. He's got thirty five million in the Bank. What does he been spending it on one area where President Trump is really spending a lot of money and putting a lot of time and effort in is on social media and in particular Facebook and then Google ads as well. Spending about three and a half million dollars on Facebook about a million dollars on Google. So about four and a half million dollars between those two platforms. That's far and above what the democratic candidates have been spending. Elizabeth Warren has spent about five hundred ninety five thousand on Facebook and Google ads comma Harris, a similar amount half-million Bernie Sanders, four hundred thirty eight thousand so you see where they are. As compared to President Trump, President Trump knew that this was a platform that was that had helped him and worked for him in two thousand sixteen. And there's ramping up again in twenty twenty. I do want to step in here though and be skeptical. One more time of how much these numbers matter specifically when we're talking about democratic primary candidates. We know that I mean a lot there's been a lot of studies about who donates to political campaigns, and it's disproportionately a lot of white people. Guess what guess who is making us less and less of the democratic primary base white people. So when you look at bed overwork and Bernie Sanders, I'm not in any way, saying these are the only people they're appealing to. But when you look at money specifically as an indicator of this broad support. I don't think I think that might be slightly overstating how much broad support. They have in more diverse places. I don't think money's the only thing. But what it will do for them is especially in a field as large as this one. You're going to need a lot of money to probably last for a pretty long time in this campaign and one kind of interesting kind of break, the mold thing that's been happening. Bernie Sanders went and he's doing work currying payments. So you know, how you can set. Up your auto pay for your cable Bill. He's essentially doing that to Bernie. He saying, hey, you like me so much you like what you get you. Like what you hear pay me twenty seven dollars every month. Also public radio likes to do. We do. We will even throw in a topa me might give you a little. Might give you a little something. NPR politics t shirt. I don't know if they do that now. But that's in the shower. I wore last week. I'm surprised that more candidates haven't done that sort of reoccurring small donor right thing already. You know, it's one way to kind of get a large grassroots base maintain that base and have them continue to pay and fund. And that means that Sanders is going to be able to stick around for quite some time. If he's able to at least show some momentum in those early states one thing, I think is so interesting about both this fundraising conversation, and how campaigns are targeting voters is that twenty twenty. I mean every election is this. But it just feels like the rules of campaigning are just being rewritten in real time, and it's hard to balance like our conventional wisdom and all of our experience in how campaigns are run in elections are one with a really volatile electorate a completely different add a culture, and that's really I mean, honestly, I'm too young to care about campaign money. That's really what it comes down to is. Like my whole time. I've been carrying about politics. I people keep telling me to care about it. And I am seeing over and over again that there are candidate can have success without it as you scroll. Facebook. But there's something to that. Right. Like, if you're looking at the future voter, it's just it's just happening at such a pace that it's hard to stay in front of it. Yeah. I think it just speaks to the difference in the platform where the message is getting out it doesn't necessarily mean. Money doesn't matter. But what it is is that, you know, spending a ton of money on television ads and only television ads is not going to be the way to get everyone to the polls. I mean, I remember in two thousand eight we started talking about digital advertising, and it was a miniscule fraction of campaigns were spending. And now, it's really skyrocketed, frankly, in how much people are spending every presidential cycle repeals some of the rules from previous cycles, but reiterates some of the others and every time the candidate who is most creative about figuring out which rules are which is the candidate who emerges. All right. Let's leave it there. We'll take a quick break. And when we get back it's time for can't let it go. This message comes from NPR sponsor. Comcast business. Business has always been driven by. Innovators entrepreneurs and disrupters. That's why the company who built the nation's largest gig speed network is moving beyond beyond connecting your business to helping you with technology that provides better experiences. Comcast business beyond fast. Visit Comcast business dot com. For more support also comes from the Walton family foundation where opportunity takes root more information is available at Walton family foundation dot org. Support also comes from the Annie E Casey foundation developing solutions to support strong families and communities to help ensure a brighter future for America's children. More information is available at eighty ADC F dot org. Welcome to the twenty percent of do you see Jesus in the burnt toast? Do you realize that literally there is a bucket of conduct by exit? Why is this happening? We cannot just say stop. I want to get off and visibility a- season five. No, easy answers. Just the right questions. And we're back, and we're going to end the show like we always do with can't let it go. The part of the show where we all talk about the one thing politics or otherwise that we can't let go of miles as the youngest member of the team today. You get to go first. Yes. And I am going to show my age. Because my thing I cannot let go of is the fact that my space lost all of its music that was uploaded between two thousand three and twenty fifteen. They announced this week that was fifty three million songs and Ron Elving. Among those songs were six of my high school bands, my high school screama bands songs that are no longer in the universe anymore. Scream. Oh, band even know what a scream oh band is. So I came only a little more emotion as well. We had a singer was better Aurora auto was in. I don't know if he got into the screaming aspect of it. But so basically we had a lot of melodies. But then I couldn't really sing. So I did some more like a different kind of emotional vocal situations instrument. I did I played beta. And it was me my on bass and doing some other vocal activity, my friend, Gordon who was an amazing vocalist who now is like a professional vocalist things like operas and things and then my little. Brother who played drums with the name of the screaming Email. We were called the twenty twenty Poetics. It's cringe. I'm not kidding. This is so bad also timely now. So I wasn't sure if these songs existed anymore. I don't have them on my computer, but I did do a YouTube search, and there was one song still on the internet. Now, you're singing, I'm not singing, I'm playing bass. I wrote a wrote lyrics. Right now miles is air drumming in here. Here is such like a quintessential high school boy band sound. Yeah. It's not good. I mean like like no arguing though we have gotten there yet like about like three minutes in. There's like a twenty-second moment where it's like, oh, hey, there was like potential here. I want to go back to the idea that you had to use your voice as an instrument. You know when you do that. That's like you can was Scott. No. I just wanna get right with you guys. It was a lot of yelling. All right. I mean, there was a step back from the Mike. I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it right here. But yeah, it was a lot of yelling and people seemed to enjoy it. You know, the people came out to our shows. Miles. I like it you've got layers thinks there are many layers, Ron what was the name of your screaming EMA band show back rows. But that is another story. A real band. You were in this was a real band. What did you play? I played bass just like what there's there's a trying to get her job -solutely. Absolutely these two are they're all about that bass yet, and it is true. And that is I've never felt it deeper connection with another. Then right now that remains one of my favorite tracks of the last over year. What can't you let go this week? Well, we'll speaking of Gordon's lawsuit against miles. Going back to politics. Devon newness has filed a two hundred fifty million dollar lawsuit against Twitter, and some individuals who were making fun of him on Twitter, one of whom called herself. Devon's mom and the Twitter did take that out because she was not in fact, Evans mom, but it's the cow the cow that people were into the reason this is relevant is. Because do Devin Nunes is family has operated a dairy farm in Iowa and has also had cultural interests there in California where his actual district is. And he started actually animal husbandry around cows when he was a teenager in his early teens. He bought seven head of of cows. Well, maybe this is why he's particularly sensitive to this. It had some several thousands of followers after the lawsuit just checked up to five hundred eighty six thousand followers at for Devon cow. Just say like, I probably not the best barometer. Her for like, what's popular? But I had no idea this thing even existed until he started doing this. I think you could say that for roughly five hundred and fifty thousand of those five hundred and eighty six thousand now following it. It's also like it shows that he's pretty thin skinned. I mean politicians get made fun of on Twitter, and that's pretty par for the course these days, but he all he is seemed to have done with. This is elevate the voices. He was trying to get to shut up. And he says this is just the first of some lawsuits that are coming because conservatives have been shadow band on social media, and because conservatives get a bad deal, and he in particular has been singled out, and well, I think we'll hear from more from congressman newness with respect to all of these issues. But see what is your what is your account? Let it go. So the thing I can't let go this week is a rumor circulating in political chatter that was first reported by axios this week that Joe Biden who still mulling whether he's going to get into the presidential race has been considering when he announces announcing his running mate and announcing. That Stacey Abrams should be his running mate. And I can't let it go, partly because of the very different reactions at got there's one school of thought that was like a brilliant cannot play it better than this. And then there was the reaction among Stacey Abrams fans, which I think a lot people on our podcast know, who she is. But she ran for governor in two thousand eighteen she lost in Georgia, but she sort of seen as this rising influential kind of rock star in the Democratic Party responses to she gave the response to the state of the union. She's an African American woman she sort of seen as like, the new the new cool and democratic politics and a lot of the the Stacey Abrams STAN out there got kind of offended by this idea that that she should suddenly automatically agree to be number two. We should note she has not ruled out running for president herself and reiterated this week that she's still looking at her options. But one of my favorite tweets about it was casino collie who's a opinion writer for the New York Times tweeted out, and she just said, it's kind of amazing how awesome Abidin Abe. Abrahams. Ticket would be without Biden on it. I thought it spoke to like this sort of you know, this other wing of the Democratic Party. That's looking for like new now fresh voices and isn't so quick to be like, oh, yes. Stacey Abrams you should be number two. It's what's wild about. It is it's so self-aware in where the Democratic Party is right now, it's like I can't even announce myself as an old white guy without having myself connected from the very beginning to something somebody who represents the diversity and the youth of the Democratic Party. Right. I would note this people have tried this before Ted Cruz tried this in two thousand sixteen remember when he announced Carly Fiorina as his running mate is some way to like juices ticket. So I'm not even sure I see this is like a move of strength by Biden. I see it more as a move of like, ooh, we've gotta shake this up. And when you're trying to shake it up. You're usually the one that's like not in the best place. I mean, this is nothing to save. Whether or not the ticket would be any good. I mean, you know, what a ticket win with, you know, Biden at the top and and Stacey Abrams Abrahams. Didn't remember win. Her georgia. Governor's race. I mean, it's fascinating to me that people who haven't won races in think about Abrahams betta will Rourke, you know, even Andrew gillum people were talking about maybe he'll run it's like don't use to have to win this Dominica. What can't you like oh this week? Well, I can't let go of President Obama releasing his NC double a men's and women's basketball brackets doing that. That's what I'm saying. This is what I can't let go of and not only did he release his bracket. But the bracket is branded with his like sun rise fields like two thousand eight you know. Yes, jogo. It's like who does he have winning though? Oh, well, okay. I will get there. It's a pretty generic bracket. If I will throw some shade because he's got Duke winning beating North Carolina. That's a pretty like popular pick right now to go that way, his final four, Duke, Tennessee, Michigan and North Carolina. You know, I don't know how much. While he's been watching this year because it gets a lot more than in the last few. He was at a game. Remember that was I on. But I I don't know there's always a five twelve upset in the first round just for people picking brackets. He's going with Oregon over Wisconsin. I'm not so sure he's going with New Mexico state over Auburn has he watched Auburn auburn's really good. I'm in the job Dominican. He's probably watching more college basketball American. He's over thinking go I would go to the other side of the bracket because I think the five twelve Murray state versus Marquette watch out Marquette, you might be in for some trouble and. To. I haven't actually see what I want. Now is a Dominica bracket next to a block bombing Iraq and see in the end comes out. And I just wanna see you try to not pick Duke, and that is a hard. I will pay. All right. We're going to leave it there for now. But before we let you go reminder that we're going to Philadelphia we're going to be doing a live podcast show. They're all about the twenty twenty rates. If you wanna buy tickets, please go to MPR presents dot org. I'm Susan Davis. I cover congress. I'm Dominica Montenero political editor, I'm miles parks. I cover voting, and I'm Ron Elving editor correspondent and thank you. For listening to the NPR politics podcasts. This message comes from NPR sponsor Comcast. Comcast values your time. That's why you can schedule to our appointment windows, including nights and weekends that way. You can spend more time doing what you love. Comcast working to make things. Simple easy. And awesome.

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Pay Day at the Trump Doral

Trump, Inc.

35:17 min | 2 years ago

Pay Day at the Trump Doral

"I haven't seen my family and fifteen years, I have a new grandson. I haven't seen yet. We don't go out to dinner. We don't go to the movies we live on. Oh, she'll you'll mostly we buy boxes and boxes seal. And when we could we might get a chicken, and that's the way we live. It's been almost a decade since Maria Dichter felt she had a measure of control of her own life. The problems began with one hundred dollars money that she and her husband needed to cover medical expenses, knee, replacements, a pacemaker and someone. I don't remember who it was. You know, if you go to loan place, and you have a Bank account, and you get steady income, you Kabbalah one hundred dollars from them, and I went, and I was approved for a hundred dollars myself, great that will pay the co pay, and any medication that he might need at that time. When Dicker went back in to repay the loan after thirty days, she was surprised to learn she owed one hundred twenty five. Dollars that works out to an annual percentage rate of three hundred percent. Well, I only borrowed a hundred dollars. This is what that's interest, Dichter paid and not long after she had some more medical expenses. And I'm saying to myself. Oh my God. What am I gonna do now before, all this digger had never set foot inside the check cashing store on southern boulevard in Palm Beach county, Florida. She went back and I said, is you anyway? I borrow just a little bit more soon. She was there like, clockwork every month for eight years. They know Mason's. I woke end they, they have my check on that counts. Of course, they know she's gonna pay it. Dichter's almost seventy four and retired from the insurance industry. She has a social security check coming in every month. She feels like she should be able to get control of for finances. But control is always just out of reach. I finally said to them, they must be a way that you could give me an extension. So I pay it. Then they said, do you have a car? They were offering her. More loans with our car is collateral Dichter didn't take that offer. She says she felt trapped she still does and tomorrow, I have to pay five hundred and fifty four dollars for nearly eight years now. She has renewed her five hundred dollar loan every month five fifty four short each time she's charged fifty four dollars fees and interest from one hundred dollars. That means Dichter's paid about five thousand dollars on top of what is effectively, a single five hundred dollar loan. Recently executives from the community financial services association, the same kind of short term high interest, lenders Maria Dichter hasn't been able to escape. They held their annual conference. It was in Florida, not much more than an hour's drive from Dichter's home. It's actually kind of in a suburb of Miami. Alice wilder is an associate producer of trumping, and she was there. We did one interview in a conference meeting room. I notice these play settings glasses of water notepads, and pens. And the notepad say Trump and the pen, say Trump and what we learned is that the topic of the session that had just ended. It was government compliance. Moments ago this room was full of payday lenders. These are companies that charge people really high interest rates to borrow money, they're learning how to work with the government to keep doing this legally and all over their notes is the name Trump because they're meeting at the president's resort. The Trump around near Miami, the money. The payday industry is spending here rooms drinks, and rounds of golf. It goes into the pocket of the most powerful man on earth. And right now, the Trump administration is moving to roll back on how to regulate their industry, the same industry that is making Maria Dichter field traps. Hello and welcome to Trump Inc. I'm Ilya marritz. I'm Alex wilder from WNYC and I'm Julie Choi from propublica. Trumping is, of course. Open investigation into the business conflicts of interest around the trunk presidency. For years if an industry wanted to influence policy. They had a few options, they could pay lobbyists. Donate to political campaigns, or even fun, shadowy, third party groups, the payday industry spent more than fifty million dollars on lobbying over the past decade. Then along comes President Trump, and he adds a new option put money into his pocket, because, you know, I have a no conflict situation because I'm president when you one of his clubs it's direct deposit. So these are some of the companies and industries that have spent money at Trump properties, the firearms industry, oiling, gas companies. The makers of turbo tax into it geo group, which runs private prisons, T mobile, the list goes on. So in this episode we're looking at one industry's efforts to make itself heard. Payday loans or small dollar loans as people on the industry, prefer to call them are little different from auto loans, or mortgages. The main difference is these are short term loans and the interest rates are high. Really high lenders get access to People's Bank accounts, and are the first in line to collect when their next paycheck comes in government studies show that most payday loans go to borrowers who take out ten or more loans in a year in the end many people pay more in fees than the amount, they borrow one borrower, Wayne, Wainwright described his debt cycle for a wound up getting a payday loan. And then I wound up getting another payday loan because the payday loan in the way that it's required to pay and that you ball four hundred bucks. You gotta pay back four seventy five but you gotta pay the four seventy five back out of your very next paycheck. And if you're having trouble fist paycheck, is hard. Doubtful. You're gonna have an extra four seventy five or whatever it is, to pay the next one rates sister, eventually loaned him twenty six hundred dollars to pay off the payday lender. He says it took about two years to pay her back and everybody doesn't have a sister who can send them twenty six hundred bucks payday loans used to be a legal and they're still banned in fifteen states and Washington, DC Google and Facebook refused to run ads for these kinds of loans. The payday industry lens tens of billions of dollars every year. And it just so happens that at the exact moment Trump is elected, the business model of payday is under threat. The federal government is about to implement new rules, designed to protect people like Wainwright and Maria dictator. There's a pretty new government agency called the consumer financial protection bureau or CF PB that's going to do this. This five years, researching and writing new rules that would prevent lenders for making loans so expensive that most borrowers take out one on top of another to cover their basic living expenses, people refer to it as the ability to repay rule what we see after Donald Trump is elected. Is that the industry swings taxing small dollar lenders? Donate more than a million dollars to the inauguration and later that year the CEO of one payday lending company scores a face to face meeting with President Trump with a small. A group of donors who gave to the governor's campaign in South Carolina. And oh yeah. They held their annual meeting at Trump around not one but two years running as far back as we could find. They had never before met at a Trump property, the payday lenders continued ability to make attractive profits hangs on obscure regulations that are now in bureaucratic limbo. People often don't understand that fifty percent. If not more of policy making in Washington, happens after congress passes, the Bill, this is the New York Times, Nick confiscatory, and in American media, we tend to focus a lot on campaigns a little on congress in legislating, and very little on rulemaking regulation. But that's where the action happens. We'll talk with him more a little later. But we start at the Trump around where the people who are paying attention are gathered its corporate, get together by the green fairways of the US, presidents, south Florida club, where the air sweet and favorable policy changes are seemingly just over the horizon. Everything at the Trump Durrell is golf, there are four golf courses. They host tournaments. And even if like me, you're not into golf, you are still the guest of golfer, I slept in the Gary Player, villa. There's even a picture of him in the bathroom, and I was in the Jack Nicklaus villa. Our plan was to mostly stay away from golf and get as close as we could to the payday lenders. Basically, as soon as I went and dropped my stuff off. I went down to the lobby and there was a networking cocktail hour happening. So people were checking into the conference going to a desk getting these big blue lanyard with giant name tag. Hugging, greeting each other's in kind of a family reunion. You know, there was an open bar, waiters coming around with trays a cheese and watermelon. Dakin Yuka coconut, shrimp, shredded chicken, and pork. With apple Saad. He had chair is plantation chicken bunch of different little bites. They re people who flew in from South Carolina, Tennessee. I talked to someone from Canada. People came in from all over North America really to be at this gathering. It's time to broker deals be there and be seen by people in your industry and reconnect with old friends. Hundreds of lenders and vendors Karl rove was speaking. And if people were feeling good this year, it wasn't just from seeing old friends. There was a sense of relief, even getting us, they were no longer under imminent threat of having to make sure customers can actually repay loans. The industry viewed that proposed rule as an existential threat because studies have shown, most of their customers are regulars if it goes into effect will largely kill the industry. This is Jeremy rosenbloom. He's a partner with Ballard Spahr, which is a big law firm that represents the industry. Full disclosure. The firm has represented propublica in the past rosenbloom was one of the few people who agree to actually sit down and talk to us during this conference. He told us that the Obama administration had been determined to bring sweeping new federal regulations to his clients, the payday lenders them. You know, the political situation change President Trump was elected. Director cordray was gone, and there was a resurgence of hope in the industry. Richard cordray was Odom appointee to head the CFP Trump replaced cordray with an acting director, a former South Carolina congressman named Mick Mulvaney, and it's not an exaggeration to say he was hostile to the agency. He was leaving he requested as zero dollar budget and said he would like to get rid of the agency altogether. In two thousand fourteen interview before he led the bureau, it turns up being joke, and that's what the baby really has been in six sad, kind of way. Because you've got an institutional has tremendous authority over what y'all do for living over this rule the payday rule, which lenders were so scared of with still in the road to being adopted when Mick Mulvaney, left the agency to become Trump's acting chief of staff. Then Trump appointed a new director of the CFP named Kathy Kroger. And she announced a proposal to rescind major part of the rule. This was just a few weeks before I met rosenbloom at the Trump Arale. He was feeling good just God. You're not even had a chance to speak to people. But I, I have to believe that it's we'll be pretty upbeat CFP said there was quote, insufficient evidence and legal support for the payday rule. Now it's reconsidering the rule rosenbloom doesn't know exactly what's coming, but whatever it is. It's probably going to be a lot better for his clients. Look, if you're faced with a role that threatens to destroy your company and that's what we had and somebody proposes to revoke that rule. You feel pretty good about that development. This is about as close as Jeremy rosenbloom gets to saying, buoy. Rosenbloom spoke, slowly and carefully. He leaned away from the microphone when it became clear that he was about to leave. I've learned it out a final question. Why did they decide to have the conference here editor kill me? If I don't ask you to conference venue. So this is the Trump now. Yeah. I mean that's. How I mean that raise their eyebrows? Seizing. Seizing. No, I don't think it's problematic. I you know, they can have their conference wherever they want this EFSA said, the Trump rallies, quote popular with our members in meets our needs. They would not tell us how much they spent their so we looked at their tax by Kurds and spoke to a Miami, event planner and someone at a competing hotel. Our best guests is that for two conferences, they paid the Trump organization at least a million dollars. But again. That. That's a question answer that as far as I'm concerned, visit that part of our conversation. I'm not getting into political issues like that. It's a nice place. We'll be right back. Everybody. I'm Shelby tau Jordan guerrilla where the house of adulting, the new comedy podcast from WNYC studios, adulting is hard. Yet, is there's taxes, it's losses. So we get together and share stories along with some great guests comedians like Phoebe Robinson, Jim gaffe again, and why it's a knack close. We answer questions audience, like, how much is too much? It's been on a pillow. So join us for belting wherever you get your podcasts. Don't miss it. we're back. And we're looking into the ways that one industry, payday lenders has sought favorable treatment from the Trump administration in one sense. This is nothing new many industries from soybeans drones to hospitals. They want things from the government whoever's in power. The difference is this is the Trump administration. President Trump set himself, the goal of cutting too old regulations for every new rule adopted and signalled again. And again, if you want him on your side, you ought to get on his team here, he is thanking campaign donors this speech at his hotel in twenty seventeen. Love. And I move on. Mick mulvaney. Trump's first CFP director was even more blunt in two thousand eighteen he told a gathering of bankers that with him doors open, if you're a donor, while this quo. Just said Joe Scarborough flipped out over this as the quote was read on his morning show. The time says he also revealed that as a congressman, he would meet only with lobbyists, if they had contributed to his campaign, telling the crowd qual- is a quote. If you're a lobbyist who never gave us money. I didn't talk to you. If you're a lobbyist who gave us money, I might talk to you, in response Mulvaney, spoke this, quote, flips, a lot of people out, because even though move any was speaking specifically about his early life, as a member of congress. It seemed to describe a whole world view. At the Trump arou- we tried to register for the payday industry sessions, but we were rejected. In fact, we were kicked out if you places one afternoon we decided to duck out of the conference to get a look at the payday industry in action. We didn't have to go far shopping center, among other shopping centers. So we walk into a branch of advance, America. It's the largest payday lender in the US, their former CEO, Patrick O'Shaughnessy was the chairman of the board of the trade group that was hosting their conference at the Trump resort. Meanwhile we're talking to the guy behind the counter here. His name is Marco, and he likes playing with clicky pens. We have a lotta claims that come fragrance to take the loans because they have like their payments on the week that they don't get paid. So they take defensive so they pay, and they come back when we talked to lenders at the conference they kept saying league about rap, but we help people in times of crisis. We're often the only lender they can turn to when an emergency comes up, but for a lot of customers coming here is actually a routine thing, how many loans on average do you think typical customer might have a year, for example, okay? We have customers that come to times every month having consecutively for like three years, and we have customer, they've come like every two months to get a loan. So you can, you know, predict that. Crossing. Getting hit by. We went to another lender not far from the truck drought m Scott, they call themselves the money superstore, and they're open twenty four hours. We run into this gentleman called Alfred. Oh, he's a twenty two year old community college student who works in retail wasn't as much as I expect. So just went ahead and just let alone I just gotta make payment. Are you still paying off the previous limbs that you've taken out? Are you finished on? No, I don't have any. I try to be debt free. You know if I don't have the cash, you can't afford it. That's the way I see it is that something that I like to try and do often. But I know that if I needed I try not to be too much there, my car payment 'cause it's gonna affect by credit. So I'm like, you know what I rather just get the loan payment out of the way and then just paid his little fee. That doesn't hurt my credit at all. So I'd rather do that, that. At first Alfred struck me is almost like a poster boy for the payday industry. Here he is really responsible borrowing infrequently always paying back on time. But if every bar were was like Alfred the industry would suffer because the real money and payday is when borrowers fall behind take on even more loans like Wayne, right? And Maria Dichter. We met at the beginning of the story. Alfred went back to his car with a check to pay auto loan. Advance America shared this comment with us by Email, quote, our customers borrow from advance America, as long as they need to and only as long as they need to before moving on. They said, quote, most typically a customer comes in once or twice, and we don't see them again. M Scott, conceded, short-term loans, look expensive when expressed in annual terms quote. It doesn't mean there's not a place for small dollar credit. It just has to be offered under a strict regulatory framework. Also, the, an Scott CEO emails to say that the Trump out is near a major airport, and has golf and good weather in March quote, hard to beat. They also offered a very attractive pricing and quote, we also shared questions with the community financial services association. They told us quote, the CFP's original rule as written by unelected Washington bureaucrats was motivated by deeply paternalistic view that small dollar loan customers cannot be trusted with the freedom to make their own financial decisions. They did not tell us whether they'll book, the Trump Durell again next year. We shared a detailed list of questions with the Trump organization, and the White House. We did not hear back from them. As we were reporting, this story, we kept coming back to another reporter's work, Nick confiscatory did this New York Times, magazine cover story in April exploring how the consumer financial protection bureau has changed under Trump and it has changed. He spoke to more than sixty current and former employees in people who've had dealings with the bureau, so we called him an it's Elliot. How you doing halio? How're you Nick said if you go back to the CFP's beginnings, less than a decade ago you'll see that it was conceived as a sort of indestructible financial guardian for the little guy? So the consumer financial protection bureau was designed by liberals with the lessons they had learned from the financial crash when the regulators that Washington had had done a poor job had allowed problems to slide have been captured by the industries that they oversaw. And so they wanted an agency that couldn't be captured as they considered. It it by the industry. It was going to oversee and that meant it would have a director, who would be all powerful, instead of a commission. The Commissioner in this case, the director of the bureau would serve for a fixed term, and they couldn't be removed and finally, this bureau would be funded directly by the Federal Reserve and not by congress. So that's the situation when President Obama's man at the CF PB, Richard cordray quits to run for governor of a high, oh, President Trump now can appoint his own boss, for the CFP. And he makes a really attention getting choice. It's Mick Mulvaney. Am I right? That if you wanted to test the resilience of this new agency Mulvaney, is your man. I think there are few people in Washington who were more determined enemies of this bureau than Nick Mulvaney. There are a couple, but not many, and what this is really an interesting test of was. What happens if you take this bureau, that has been deliberately insulated from checks and balances in congressional oversight, where the director has been made very powerful and handed over to a director, who doesn't like the agency what happens next? So few things that happen. Next move any requests, a zero dollar budget. He embarks on a basically pointless, name-change, which is then cancelled, but it's expensive, those though are almost more like gestures for public consumption. I would think so at the same time, what is going on inside the agency. Was it fulfilling its mission to protect consumers, the way, I would describe it for listeners is that the founders of the agency lives with Warren and her colleagues in the Obama administration. We're trying to design this intricate machine and what my story is about is about, watching mauve Ania, essentially kinda pull apart that machinery he didn't raise it. He didn't set it on fire. It was more like he unscrewed a bolt here and put a little sand in the gears over here and stopped these two pieces of the machine from being connected, so they can talk to each other, and slowly making the whole thing less efficient which brings us to the payday rule. The rule that says, lenders need to check their borrower's ability to repay the rule that lender said might actually kill some in their industry. Nick learned a lot about how the rule which was this close to being adopted instead got put on hold, there was a meeting with senior people from the CFP PB and the payday lenders. And it was last April April twenty eight teen, the members of the association, the, the penny lenders are champing in the bed, they want action immediately, the payday industry is planning a lawsuit to block the rule and just underline that point, they bring their lawyers with them to the meeting with a top aide to Mick Mulvaney. Named Brian Johnson is so according to my sources Johnson is really taken aback by this, this vein in this meeting as Nick reports it the payday lenders are basically, asking Vero if the bureau would welcome lawsuit and Johnson will veins aide says, I can't talk to you about a lawsuit that we might be a party to. So they seem to follow the book there, but the Nessin that happens is really interesting, the association walks out of that meeting and a couple of days later, they've filed their loss. So now it's going to go before a judge. And what I found was a bunch of Email correspondence where essentially the bureau's lawyers decided that the best thing for everybody was if they could get a judge to allow them to not implement the Obama rule. And they seem to have plan that strategy yet as legal strategy together and the idea came from actually, the bureau, it was their idea like wait. Here's a solution. Let's try and get a judge to let us off the hook from enforcing this rule that our new director doesn't like, and then you guys can stop suing. I think that once the lawsuit was filed and the agency under Mulvaney had to respond somehow then they exercise their right to open discussions with the lawyers, and then they started working on a strategy together, and kind of more or less and lockstep. The judge gives the bureau, what it wants which is time to revisit the rule, by the way, the community financial services association. That's the payday trade group told us an emailed statement that following a series of conversations quote the parties. Agreed that asking the court to stay the litigation while the bureau reconsiders the small dollar rule would serve to conserve judicial resources reduce expensive both parties. And if the rule is repealed avoid the need for future, litigation in testimony before congress in March Mulvaney successor. Kathy Cranham said, this lawsuit was one reason to reconsider the proposed payday rule the subject of litigation ongoing litigation and the courts in fact stayed our ability to move forward with the rule. And last year, the bureau told the courts that there would be reconsideration. So I, I look for the full evidence, but that's, that's largely what this is about. It's that. The basis of the winner was confirmed in her job last December in speeches. She likes to talk about using all agencies tools, not just enforcement and oversight, which are aimed at lenders but also -education, which is about the borrowers. Have you formed an impression of her and the way, she's running the bureau, you know, in the months, I was reporting the story when, when her name I was being floated, and when she was going through her nominating process, people inside the bureau were very curious about her. They weren't sure she was going to be a Mulvaney apparatchik standard for him, somebody who might take a different view. What's basically, happened is that with the exception of the name change idea that mauvais tried to push through, which she put the kabosh on she's more or less kept up the policy shift at the bureau. Her approach is a little different. She's not as confrontational. She doesn't relish, kind of poking congress in the I as Mulvaney seemed to at times, but the policy is basically the same. She is putting into place, the new payday rule. The gutting of the old rule that move any set in motion towards the end of his term there. Do you think what Trump has done with the consumer financial protection bureau is any different from what president Rubio, or maybe a president, Jeb Bush would have done? Do you think that Trump's serve distinctly transactional, approach does actually make a difference here? What I've observed in writing about the deconstruction of the administrative state in Washington under, under Trump, is that the president has no strong beliefs about this stuff. I think that when you have a president who's very transactional, who doesn't have a lot of big ideas of his own, who's basically focused on immigration and trade and is willing to just outsource his policy to various pieces of industry. You actually do get more radical pro industry policy because there's no counterweight there's no normal bureaucratic process, and you get more, but we have under Trump, which is more and more like straight up industry lobbyists, you were running. You know, the day bureaucracies in the regulatory agencies and to me, it shows like the contradictions of Trump is in that there's this notional populism, but there's so little discipline. And the president is so easily convinced to hand over the levers of power to, to industry that what you end up with is like radically pro industry policy. What do you make of the fact that the community financial services association had their annual meeting at the Trump Arale not once but two years running? Do you think something like that could actually get a message to the most powerful man in the land? Absolutely. I don't think you can overestimate how much these little blandishments mean to the president, when I started kind of reporting on the Trump administration. I kept thinking, well, I mean, he's not gonna like hand out a policy favor to somebody because they stay as hell. And he got a couple thousand bucks. That's ridiculous. That's. That's peanuts. But then I realized that Donald Trump is a hotel operator, and golf course operator, these are businesses, then I realized more and more, it's exactly the kind of thing that he responds to. And even if he is not responding everybody in Washington acts as if he is responding. That's why the Trump hotel in Washington does pretty well even though is golf courses in some other places haven't done as well. It's why the foreign embassies and different associations of move their parties to the Trump hotel. It's why more and more stuff is happening at the Durrell everybody understands that the president likes it when you go to one of his properties and hold your event there. And that's why they switched. So Elizabeth Warren, who I, I think conceived of this agency, and the Democrats in congress who wrote it into the Dodd Frank law. They wanted to design a perfect machine, something that would be impervious to impervious to Republicans, frankly, because this was created by Democrats, how's it doing? I think that when you look closely at the enforcement settlements in some of the agreements when you look at the rulemaking that I'm ovarian as successor have begun when you look at the requests for information, the RFI's as they're called that they have put out industry about how to change their practices. They're really trying to do is turn the agency into a less aggressive cop cop that listens to the criminals as much as the victims a cop that wall and were. Tickets that will beating donuts more often sitting in the squad car more often what they want us to less vital and active bureau that is more susceptible to the kind of fresher that industry has often found works with other agencies throughout the government. Nick, thank you so much, as my pleasure. We sent the bureau, a detailed list of questions about the payday industry's efforts to stymie a rule that they didn't like and the optics of payday lenders booking. The Trump around the CF PB on Email didn't answer those questions. But referred us to a Kathy krangar speech, a court filing in the documents outlining the payday. Rulemaking. As for the payday payroll, the bureau is now combing through thousands of comments, and we'll make a decision in the coming months, on whether to gut those regulations whatever happens. There's a good chance. It'll be challenged in court. Trump Inc, is an open investigation into the Trump family business sense, your tips. The Email is tips at Trump Inc, podcast dot org. We also have secure methods to communicate. Find out how at Trump Inc, podcast dot org, and while you're there, sign up for our newsletter. And we're still taking tips on the consumer financial protection bureau. Go to propublica dot org slash CFP. Make Kramer is the senior producer of trumping associate producer, Catherine Sullivan. They'll moss is the technical director, the editors Charlie Herman, Eric Manzke, Nick Varsha ver-, and Robin fields, just the ising and Paul Kiel for propublica contributed valuable brainpower Jim Schachter is the vice president for news, WNYC and Steve Engelberg, the editor in chief from Republika. Thanks, this episode and Fleming at Georgetown law. Chris Peterson from the consumer federation of America Alex Horowitz at the pew charitable trusts, and I and standard from the center versus ones lending original music by Hannah's Brown.

Trump President Trump president Mick Mulvaney Trump Inc congress Maria Dichter director CFP Washington Trump hotel Mulvaney Trump Durrell Florida Washington Trump golf Jeremy rosenbloom Trump Arale
Morning Joe 6/14/19

MSNBC Morning Joe

46:05 min | 2 years ago

Morning Joe 6/14/19

"I can speak to my own personal experience. I've heard from countless members of the FBI that are grateful and thankful for the president's decision. And I think that, you know, we may have to agree to disagree. Anything zero equals zero simple multiplication so fifty Democrats can run twenty nineteen or now running your message. Zero. It's a big zero. That was Sarah Sanders lying to the American people, and Kellyanne Conway, still there violating the hatch act. The White House press secretary is now heading for the door and a federal agency says the presidential adviser should do the same good morning and welcome to morning Joe. It is Friday June fourteenth, along with Joe Willie and me. We have national affairs analyst for NBC news and MSNBC, John Heilmann, host of Saturday night, politics, on MSNBC Donny. Deutsch Tani, Republican strategists and MSNBC political analyst, Susan Dell prosciutto is with us and Pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor for the Washington Post and MSNBC political analyst Eugene Robinson, also with a senior writer at politico, and co author of the playbook Jake Sherman. He's an MSNBC political contributor as well and Joe well Republicans who are really avoiding. Things yesterday, except for one, but most of them were just like chippy tippy tippy toe around something that is, so obviously a bomb abominable. I said yesterday that the Republicans Senate choice, they could choose loyalty to their country or they could choose loyalty to Donald Trump and sadly most of. Council's Republicans chose loyalty to Donald Trump and, and some of the things that were said and we'll get to it in a minute. But by Mitch McConnell were just absolutely extraordinarily would be extrordinary. But it Mitch McConnell has proven proved long to go. He's so cynical that what most of us consider that, what most conservatives long considered to be in the best interests of the country is not something that concerns Mitch McConnell at all. And, you know, there was also there was this remarkable attempt by Republicans Delie again about Hillary Clinton saying, well, yes. Donald Trump said he might get information from the Iranians or the Chinese or the Russians from foreign governments to try to influence democracy, but Hillary Clinton did it too. That's just obviously ally. I expect. unfortunately, too many Republicans on Capitol Hill to spread those lies. But some friends of mine that I fall. On twitter. We're doing the same thing yesterday. I think Mika they probably were just ill informed, and that's why we're here. Let's give them the facts right now, okay? After President Trump declared that he is open to receiving information from foreign countries against his opponents in the twenty twenty election and that would he would only maybe let the FBI know about it. Democratic Senator Mark Warner attempted to pass a Bill that makes it illegal for campaigns not to report offers of foreign assistance to the FBI, but that Bill failed to pass by unanimous consent yesterday, when Republican Senator Marsha Blackburn, rose to object claiming that the proposal would be too much of a burden on campaigns. These reporting requirements are overbroad any person who shares their views with a candidate would be reportable campaigns could have to report social media responses, our interactions. Do you would report every non US citizen are dreamer who volunteers for their campaign or not so doors, or even knocks on the door of a foreign national? Would point out that her reading of my legislation is not accurate? The only thing that would have to be reported as, if agent, a foreign government or four national offered something that was already prohibited and candidly, if and I will take my, my colleague at word if there are ways to improve on this legislation, I'm wide open for business. Wow. But Senate Republicans have so far chosen not to work on the issue, majority leader, Mitch McConnell, has blocked bipartisan election security legislation pass through the house in March a position he reaffirmed last night. I'm open to considering legislation. But it has to be directed in a way that doesn't undermine state and local control of elections. The democrat Laura would like to nationalize everything. They want the federal government to take over broad swath of the election process because they think that would somehow benefit then. John, John Heilemann, how rich that Mitch McConnell is saying that Democrats want to take over broad swaths of elections. When all we're doing is trying to stop Russians. All we're doing those of us. In the media, that are asking for this, those on Capitol Hill, asking for this are just trying to stop Vladimir Putin are China or Iran or Turkey, or India, VAR other. Adversaries at time, we're trying to stop them, but isn't it fascinating at the circle is actually has been completed now this and here we end up with Mitch McConnell, sending Marsha Blackburn on the floor for what we should call the flat. Amir Putin relief, a block in this assay Mitch McConnell who in two thousand sixteen actually was warned about Russian interference about Vladimir Putin's interference in American democracy. That's what Donald Trump's Intel people would say a year and a half later that, yes, yes, they interfered with American democracy while this was happening in two thousand sixteen. It was who Mitch McConnell, who said, no, you can't go out and say that or else I'm going to attack you as being partisan. And so here we are Mitch McConnell still doing Vladimir Putin's work. Joe? Unlike you I'm not even a simple country lawyer. No conned. Hey cow. But I listened to I listened to Mark order yesterday. And I believe he said, guy, a blue wall, cooter. Her list as making your straightforward point. There's a law that exists. The law says that foreigners can't give things of value to American campaigns. The Warner Bill would further take that law. An existing piece of law and say if afford or violates a law, that's already on the books, the American campaign that is witnessing that violation of the law must now report it. That's what the lost the Warner Bill said. And yet, you know. You know, that's part of American election was already nationalized. That's a federal law exists already. Presumably Mitch McConnell has not is not against that law the underlying law. So it's, you know it's illogical and, and totally off points to be talking about somehow further nationalizing election law. This is just basically Adiga reported requirement to an existing federal law that no one is arguing should be struck down, which makes the question. What's Mitch McConnell's actual game here? And I think what it is, is that everyone is looking at Donald Trump's behavior and saying, if Donald Trump is still arguing that it's okay to accept stuff from foreign nationals. It's first of all, because his campaign, tried to do it in two thousand sixteen and that there's a pretty high likelihood that his campaign is going to try to do it again, is, in fact, inviting it again in twenty twenty and so to toughen these laws would be to create a legal trap for the president who apparently is signaling to all of us and every four and adversary, that he's total. The open for business on volume that log in. So let's Willie Geist. Let's just be clearly state where things. All right now, you had a law that could have been passed yesterday that would have required candidates to report any illegal acts. Not somebody Marsha Blackburn was wrong. That's somebody working on your campaign. Not somebody tweeting edge would require a candidate or a campaign to report any illegal actions to the FBI and Mitch McConnell and Marsha Blackburn, and the Republican party of Donald Trump opposed that let that sink in for a while. Yeah. You had others in the house to Kevin McCarthy and saying what the president said wasn't so bad. I don't know why this is so difficult used the word 'sad earlier it is said for the country that these Republicans in this case and others can't put the country over there, feel t to Donald Trump. But they continue to do it. And here's leader McConnell shrugging off the president's comments expressing openness to foreign help in the twenty twenty election. Here's part of what the president said, I see news, followed by McConnell talking with Fox News last night. Your campaign, this time Brad of foreigners. If Russia if China if someone else offers you information on opponent should be accepted. Or should they call the FBI? I think maybe you do both. I think you might wanna listen and you want that kind of interference in our elections. It's not an interference. They have information. I think I'd take it. Do you have a problem with that answer because the Democrats seem to be taking that and saying a hoc- we told you. So now it's onto impeachment. They just kind of let it go. Laurel said weeks ago, case close. We got the Muller report. The only objective evaluation that will be conducted nobody has any confidence that the democratic house is going to engage in any kind of appropriate oversight, the case is closed. Why don't we move on? Do you think the president made a mistake in the way, he answered that question when he said, maybe I would maybe I wouldn't have here, not hear about would you answer that question that, well he gets? He gets picked up every day over every different aspect of it. But the fundamental point is they're trying to keep the twenty six election alive and the investigation when the American people have heard enough. No, actually, that's not what just anyone such a lie. Really, he's such a liar. That'd be I'm sorry, east just lying through his teeth and let me tell you something. If Mitch McConnell we're approached by the Chinese with dirt on his opponent. In twenty twenty he would call the FBI, he would call the FBI every other liar on Capitol Hill. It's claiming that what Donald Trump did was okay would call the FBI they would all call the FBI and Mitch McConnell Whitney even answer that question, because we know what the answer was to it and him sang. The president gets picked on too much, and, quote, case closed how sad. And I mean listen, he's gotta live with himself, and he's going to have to live with himself into retirement. I hope he enjoys his legacy because this is it this embarrassed. Corwin, that's his legacy, hope he's happy with Donny. The question is not about the case closed not about the twentieth. Sixteen election, George. Operas asked Donald Trump in the Oval Office. What about the next time, have you learned anything from the experience of the two thousand sixteen election, the Muller investigation, and he said, no, I'm wide open. I think I would take it. So we're not talking about the last election. We're talking about the next one. I'll be the thing when you watch the tape of Stephanopolous, how authentic Trump is wasn't even question. Wouldn't anybody? I mean that's the one thing about Donald, he just continuing shows himself, but it was kind of like a mob, boss will, of course and Mitch McConnell now. Republicans are becoming the non democracy party. This is the same guy in the same party that would not vote for two hundred fifty million dollars to make our voting machines, safer think about what with all the money in our government, two hundred fifty million dollars. Did you say let's safeguard devoted machines? No, thank you. We don't want that Bill and Joe, you've talked a lot. You were talking about McConnell's retirement, and it's interesting. We opened the show with Sarah Sanders, leaving and Kellyanne Conway, hopefully soon, leaving, don't any of these people understand that there is life after Trump and this is a moment in time essence badly. And do they not understand the toxicity, and the, the cancer that stays with them after every single one of them, you don't have to be the most potent democratic strategists to understand that they will? Carrie this legacy the rest of their lives. You know, they're going to have trouble getting jobs in Washington DC for the rest of their lives, especially these people that have been outlying without without shame. But, you know, I, I wanted to it's very interesting, you were talking about how Donald Trump is doing this, all in play you and I just as somebody that isn't known him for a while. I want to have a quick discussion with you and get your thoughts on it because, you know, Meco say when he did that this guy is so bad in other say he's so eagerly so evil. He said, well, yes. Okay. Yeah. I get what you're saying. But what they're truly evil guy have answered the question that Lester holes. No, no, that's not why what really truly evil guide said, George Stephanopoulos. Of course I was reported. I would report it instantly. In fact, you know what I've hired three lawyers and they're going to be scanning throughout the entire government. We're going to have the toughest task force on foreign interference ever while. He's actually calling China and calling Russia's they, hey, you got anything. You get anything. That's the thing about Donald Trump now at Donny answer, because Donald Trump's evil. That's the thing about Donald Trump. It's all in plain view. And I know people are saying he's a three dimensional chess steal Donald's just trying to do now. Now, come on, stop this is a guy that just blurts out. Whatever is in the front of his head at the time he's a bad, dude. But to your point Joe, it's interesting, it's almost childlike whereas you take the cookie. Did you take the cookie? I didn't take the cook where he just change. Doesn't think it's wrong. That's how demented he is willing. Whatever word we want to attach to him that in front of the entire world. Will why wouldn't I wouldn't everyone? So you could almost say eat is there is evil. Or is it just no moral right to even look at? I just I think. And I want to take on box here. I never said he's evil on my reaction is an oh, he's evil. My reaction to what happened the other night, when he said to George Stephanopoulos, was this horrendous horrendous for our democracy. He is a national security threat and what he does is not stupidity. What he does is not evil playing out before is what he does is he manipulate the truth. He desensitizes the American public in the world to what is right and wrong, and does things in plain sight. And the results are evil. What happens in a dictatorship, what happens when evil forces step in is this slowly chipping away at our values slowly chipping away at our democracy, and that whether he knows it or not, whether he's planning it or not, whether he gives a damn or not. That's what's happening. Well, just to clear. The lawyer that I am. I did not say that you said he was even I said, I'm telling you what you said, others said he was evil. I hear what you're saying. I, I, I have a little different opinion about this, gene Robinson. I could be wrong. I've been accused of being overly optimistic many, many, many times before. And of course, as you know, I'm wrong every day. But in this case, I, I think this is a temporary temporary phase. I think these Republicans have already paid a horrific price. In fact, I will say this, I was talking to me. Can we were talking about they were showing clips of the Helsinki summit? And I said, look at the date on that Helsinki, white Helsinki, two thousand eighteen, you know what happened two thousand eighteen it's the biggest electoral rout ever midterm election, Democrats over Republicans. I think he pays the price, I think people around him pay the price, but I think again, for me at this point, I've discounted Donald Trump's. Constitutional attacks into into it right now. I'm focused on the Republican party. And how shamelessly and how cravenly they continue to allow these constitutional breaches are these breaches of constitutional political norms to continue. They're the ones who be paying the price long after Donald Trump is golfing, and more Lago war. Certainly hope. So because what Republicans have done is, is so their soul to Donald Trump. The abandoned all their values. They have done a total three sixty on positions that they held for decades. You are. Right. Anybody any the Mitch McConnell Lindsey Graham, any of them running a campaign, if they were approached by a Chinese agent, or something like that with during campaign, of course, they would call the and of course, they know that, that's what. Any any candidate oughta do. And they won't say it because they're because they're all in with Donald Trump. They, it is did as Donald Trump's party. Now it is Trump is party period. I do wanna know that what, what President Trump said, outrageously said he would do in the next election, he actually did do in the last election. And I don't think we should forget that, that he actually did Eddie, actually did welcome and encourage help from a foreign power to help him win an election. So. You know, I'm not terribly surprised I guess I'm surprised that. He'll say it out loud. I'm certainly not surprised that he that he would do it. All right. We're going to sneak in a quick break, we need to get Jake Sherman into the conversation. Get his reporting on the Republican's latest. What about Hillary take and then sip Lucy's take down of the president also a pair of presidential candidates, and congressman Tim Ryan of Ohio, New York City. Mayor Bill de Blasio join us. Plus, we'll talk to the chairwoman of the Federal Election Commission who was stunned yesterday to have to remind the country that you can't accept foreign interference in American elections. Ellen Weintraub joins us ahead. And as we go to break one moment from Julia in Castro's, Fox News, townhall last night, where he reflected on the president's conduct. The Mola report laid out ten different instances where the president either obstructed Justice or tried to obstruct Justice and yesterday was one more example of why. That's the case. I think you know a few years from now. Whether it's ten years from now twenty years from now, we're going to look back on this as a Merican not Republicans or Democrats, or liberals, or conservatives and say, what in the hell was wrong with that president? Hi, it's Katy Tur want to keep up with MSNBC while you're on the go. Subscribe to the MSNBC daily newsletter you'll get the best of what you've missed or in this unprecedented era of news, text MSNBC, two six six eight six six to subscribe. Foreign agent approach me with anything, and Cody Banon women into dirt on my phone, and I'd call the FBI. I think most people would not frankly, I think the president would my reaction is they should reach out to the FBI. I think both parties and all of the candidates should agree that the appropriate action to take is to call the FBI. The first phone call of make after her to me to the second phone call would be to cooperate new information. Other Republican senators there when asked to react to the president's comments about accepting foreign help many stipulating that a call to the FBI would be prudent? But others attempt to draw to draw a full sequences with Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign. I think we need to be, we need to be extra careful because obviously, there are foreign countries that are interested in our elections. We saw that in the in the Clinton. Example, again, here he outrage when Hillary Clinton. The DNC paid a foreign spy together information from Russia, helped my democrat colleagues will be equally. Offended by the fact that this actually did happen in two thousand sixteen were a foreign agent was paid for political party together opposition research, but those claims are flawed like the conservative news site, free beacon did during the primaries, the Clinton campaign and the DNC hired the American opposition research, firm, fusion GPS, which then used former British spy, Christopher Steele to compile a dossier when steel uncovered what he believed was troubling it formation. He reported it to the FBI on October, third twenty sixteen according to the Washington Post and Clinton and the DNC hired fusion GPS through a law firm. And there is no evidence to date that the campaign knew of the work subcontracted to steal Joe. Yeah. There is. No. There's no evidence, Chuck Grassley Lindsey Graham anybody else trying to draw this parallel cannot reveal any evidence that Hillary Clinton or her campaign or the DNC knew that the same Washington DC based firm, that was hired by the conservative website, free beacon to do the same thing that they subcontracted some of their work out to steal but Susan Percy others. My goodness. There's a much much bigger point here. I'm sure in their need to spend as quickly as they could. So Donald Trump would still invite them out to go, perhaps it down and have some milk of magnesia with them in the case of some of the other senators, what they overlooked was the fact that Christopher Steele when he got information as a subcontractor GPS immediately reported all information to the. Why he sat down and spoke with the FBI? He continued to keep them advise of everything that he was being told by foreign sources. Here's a big difference between that and Don jR going Yippee a mother and father on so excited that the Russians are coming to give me dirt on Hillary Clinton. And by the way, not only reporting it to in two thousand sixteen but lying about it over and over and over again, and some even saying in two thousand nineteen what we're not sure whether would report it to the FBI or not. And let's be. It's just going to say, let's be clear that the Email Tatan junior was a lawyer from the Russian government, it was crystal clear. He's coming from an adversary of this country. But let me just give you one poll number here, or a comparison in two thousand eighteen in February of twenty eight teen Senator Graham was at forty one percent. Approval rating a year later he's at seventy four and guess what percent approval and what he doesn't have to face now is a primary. So he looks at it and other see what he has done. He sold out his party. He sold at his country for his Senate seat. So I don't know if that's worth something or not that should be reported, but it is clear that sucking up to Donald Trump and doing his bidding. We'll let you keep your seat. Jake Sherman is our man on Capitol Hill this morning. I asked this not rhetorically, but sincerely, why is this so hard for senators and congress people to come out and simply, say, well, of course if this happened, I would call the FBI. Why was Mitch McConnell on Fox News last night spinning in such a pathetic way trying to? Cover the tracks of Donald Trump and explain away, his comments to George Stephanopoulos, is it the old, the old saw about fearing it a primary challenge like what is going on that? They can't state the obvious to protect our elections speaking broadly, I think, initially when this all started meeting, the Trump presidency, it was because the politics and their states demanded that they protect the president in that they defend the president on Capitol Hill. I think that has almost become second nature. Meaning and I've noticed this from being on the hill every day, I think almost it's become second nature in the sense that when Donald Trump is attacked no matter what the substance is their, their inclination, and their reaction his to defend him. And frankly, yesterday Kevin McCarthy at his press conference, it was amazing Nancy Pelosi had hers at ten forty five Kevin McCarthy, had his at eleven thirty and, and Kevin McCarthy brought up a lot of the Hillary Clinton stuff. But then he was asked very plainly. If there was a Bill to prevent or to force. Members of congress to report foreign interference or Ford information in the election. Would you vote for it? Would you pass it? And he said, yes. So I actually I'm going to play devil's advocate. I do think if crafted properly, if, if there was some time spent on it, that Bill would pass and Donald Trump would not be able to veto it, because it would definitely have veto proof majorities in both chambers, because it's a relatively simple and straightforward thing. Mark Warner did yesterday was a stunt in and of itself. I'm not saying the substance was wrong, or right? But no nothing like that passes on unanimous consent immediately. So here's house minority leader Kevin McCarthy, who you just referenced speaking yesterday about President Trump's comments. Let's listen. Great for the president to say that he would listen in foreigners offered dirt on his political opponent healthy. I think we all see you're talking about a hypothetical president. I think what you're asking, right. Here's a hypothetical said those things in that concerns people. And so is that is that eight probably most concerned about the president? To set a tone about what is right and what is more. I think the president's went very clear. The president does not want foreign governments to interfere in our election, Kerry. It's been very strong. He did not say he'd have a foreign government. We would like you respectfully to please address that question. Just got to comment on his word yesterday. I think it'd be west the president. He would he would be very clear about it not allowing any foreign countries to interfere in our election. Jake George Stephanopoulos. Did ask the press ally. And the president said the opposite of what Kevin McCarthy just suggested, you know, I will say having written a book that mainly involved, Kevin McCarthy, Kevin McCarthy sees it as his role, and I'm extrapolating a little bit here, but sees it as his role to present who Donahue, he wished Donald Trump was and what he wished Donald Trump would say, and that's what you're seeing are not making excuses for him. But that's that's his role. He Yanks Donald Trump back from ledges that he wishes Donald Trump wouldn't jump off of and, and it sometimes comes across. Do that after two and a half years he doesn't think he could do it successfully put he feels? And again, I'm not making excuses, but he feels like it's his role to present the Donald Trump that he wishes he was, and it looks cartoonish at times. Because in this instance, you had dozens of reporters who, by the way. No Kevin McCarthy, well, and deal with them when he's being relatively honest and forthcoming but here he's just clearly dancing around a question. That's painfully obvious the answers painfully obvious to everybody that gentleman. Ask a question. I'm not sure you have an answer to because you left the party. But for these Republicans, this one should be easy. Shouldn't it? I mean, even Donald Trump's base they care about national security, and the president proofed with his words that he is a national security threat, and I, what would be then the reason for Republicans to not take the easy road here and give the right answer. That that was wrong to say the president is wrong, not the FBI director, and what is causing them to be such cowards and such a neighbor's selling out our country selling out our national security. It's all for the next selection. Let's follow up on what Susan just said Lindsey Graham was sitting at forty one percent. He's now. Self time and time again, he's gone from saying that Donald Trump was a disgrace that he was unfit to be president of the United States, that according nominated him they would destroy themselves. They would be destroyed and they would deserve it. And just decided he didn't want a primary opponent. So, for him actually getting reelected, next year is more important than doing the right thing. And, and by the way, these are the sort of value judgments that, you know, I don't like to make. But I think here John Heilemann. It's pretty safe to say that, if the president of the United States, just said it was okay to take information from bladder, MIR Putin and possibly not report it to the FBI. I think we're in safe territory, here to say that, that defending that action and, and jumping in the what aboutism pool in defensive, Donald Trump shows just. One of the lower points for this entire Republican party and by this point in two thousand nineteen that saying a lot, yes. Certainly all of that is true, and I just would go further and say that although we can't make any kind of conclusive assessments of what Donald Trump is in the Trump campaign, which is currently extent operation what they're doing at this moment or what they will or plan to do or will do in the eighteen months between now and election day twenty twenty. It is now Ayla Jit of a question to ask every day, whether the Trump campaign is currently cooperating with foreign nationals foreign intelligence services for empowers, both adversaries and allies in any way going forward, every single day. That's a legit question now going forward. And we have to have the presumption that the president now has tried to create a space for himself to operate in that way. Not just to excuse past behavior which is clearly, the case, clearly wants to continue to say that when his son and others except. Did a Russian offers of dirt pillory Clinton that they accepted. They took the meeting and cetera. Clearly wants to, to say that was fine. But he's now, creating a prospective situation where he says you should be on warning America that we're going to do it again. So we're now on worrying that they're going to do it again. We should be asking the question ever reporter who covers the campaign should be looking into this matter. Because the president's now hung a giant lantern on the and said, this is my intent well, and Jake Sherman, Nancy Pelosi had said that Donald Trump is dying to be impeached that, you know, he's pushing everybody, you could definitely see that with these comments if that's one strategy of how to understand what he said, but why why she still holding back. Do you think she's still being very careful not to go down that road. Speaking of political calculations. The speaker believes in her people around her believe, pretty clearly, and they tell this to us all the time if they impeach Donald Trump, they will lose the house in the White House. That's what they say. That's their assessment of the situation of the politics of the situation. They don't believe it's clear from my conversations with them. They don't believe that the duty to impeach. They don't believe that rises above the politics of it. At the moment. They don't believe the country's ready for it, and they don't believe they have enough evidence solidly to impeach him. But here's what strange Nancy Pelosi. Keep saying the president is currently involved in a criminal cover up. Okay. So if he's currently involved in a criminal cover up your duty is to impeach him. That's the constitutional remedy, not my assessment. That's what the constitution says. So I think a lot of for members growing by the day, now it's north of sixty in a caucus of two hundred forty or so two hundred thirty five babe want to impeach him. And they're coming out of the woodwork saying that they need to impeach him and Pelosi is basically saying at once she cannot she will not impeach him right now. But he is currently involved in major crimes to cover up previous runs. So those two things for a lot of members that I talked to every day those two. Do not compute. I don't know how she is going to last the next fifteen months holding that position. Meaning I don't know how it's possible she might do it. The Pat to that is not clear to me. Jake sherman. Thank you. There's no question to me that she has a plan. You can get a sense of her strategic political mind and this calculus, in my sit down with house speaker, Nancy Pelosi on headliners this Sunday at nine o'clock nine pm eastern on MSNBC. It is absolutely fascinating coming up. He's officially made the cut for the first democratic primary debate. Congressman Tim Ryan is here to reveal his strategy to break out from the nineteen other Democrats who will also be taking the stage in less than two weeks. We'll be right back. Yesterday. President gave us once again evidence that he does not know right from wrong. It's a very sad thing. They're sad thing that he's just not knew right from wrong. I believe that he has been involved in a criminal cover up. I've said that before and our investigation is demonstrating, welcome to border, Joe live picture. Beautiful picture of on Friday morning. Washington. DC. It's the president's birthday. Oh happy. Birthdays, seventy three. Three. Wow. Happy birthday. All her. You'll residential candidate. Congressman Tim Ryan of Ohio joins us congressman good to see is always good morning. You're on the debate stage. Yes. Couple of weeks from right now. Yes, you'll have ten of you up there. What is the strategy to a presidential candidate who has that format and we'll have tight windows to get the country to notice him? I think let people know who I am where I'm from I think when people hear about, I'm from one of the forgotten communities, forgotten places that Donald Trump made a lot of economic promises to and did not deliver on. That's a differentiator for me, because I've lived in this community for the last forty five years, it's the epicenter of the industrial ization episode of the opiate crisis epicenter of infant mortality, and we've got big things to do. And I think the personal lead that is the person who's been experiencing that you've taken big swings on policy. You're talking about things that may not be sexy. A lot of people motion learning in schools, fascinating area to explore reading the new economy. What's it like in Youngstown when you go in, and you tell those men and women that the jobs that President Trump told you're coming back or not coming back? But here's something we can do. Do they accept that did they walk with you, or do they said, no, I want the old job that Donald Trump promised me? They want a job. They I mean, a lot of people don't care what it is. But they want something that has some sustainability to. I mean, they know that the coal jobs are down thirty thousand the steel jobs, have eroded not that you can't get the next generation back. But I think they wanna plan. I think this is going to be a little more like nine hundred ninety two a little more like a Bill Clinton. You got to explain how you're going to get from a to be to see if you can do that. You can build trust with those, those people. But, you know, electric vehicles, we've talked about this all the time, we're gonna make thirty million of them in the next ten years, where we gonna make them the batteries, where we're gonna make them the charging stations for the electric vehicles, who's gonna make those solar panels, who's gonna make them wind turbines, who's gonna make them. I want those made in the United States and then drive that investment into those older economy old coal. Old steel old auto old, rubber old textile communities of color that have been left behind. You can do that with policy, if the president wants to, and I want to, and I'm from there. So that's going to be a big initiative for me that industrial policy. What does it look like from your position when you look in the polls here about one percent, but there are a bunch of I never thought I'd be excited about. Listening. God. I'm happy about one percent. The game you're on the stage when you look up from your position and you see Joe Biden it thirty percent. For example, is with Warren climbing in the polls, Bernie Sanders up there, too. Yeah. How do you see your climb? How do you get up out from where you are while I think of president Howard Dean, and I think of president, Joe Lieberman, and president, Jeb Bush, it's the person that the top never really makes him and so that gives us inspiration. And I think the climb is the economic argument. I mean, Democrats want to win and they know we need to win western Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin Iowa, potentially Indiana. And so, I think people are looking to maybe shift the center of gravity for the Democrats from the coasts and from the Ivy leagues too. Youngstown ohio. We do that we completely jackpot the Republicans, and I think we can potentially put a lot of Senate races in play including Mitch McConnell, including Lindsey Graham, so race in North Carolina. Just imagine if the center of gravity is northeast Ohio things changed for the whole party cars. Method is great. You're on the debate stage. You know, I look at your friends Seth mold. Look at governor Bullock, two term governor of Montana, red state one, a lot of conservative votes out there and is governed a very popular guy molten like you a young promising congressman lot people think he's got a big future in the party. They're not that far apart from you. And the polls in terms of you feel looked at the number of actual respondents now it's a trivial number of Americans. Are you what my feelings but? I seen you screwing system that does two guys approve and winner in a red state in one of the most brightest rising stars and the Democratic Party in the house or not up there on the debate stage. What do you think about that? Well, I think it's I don't think we need to be winnowing the field this early myself. I mean, I think I won New Hampshire South Carolina, Nevada. They should winnow the field and I don't think the, the, the small dollar donation idea is really the best either. I think it's having a lot of unintended consequences now to where people are raising lots of money, and then spending twenty five to fifty summer, saying up to seventy five dollars to get a one dollar contribution. Right. And so, I don't think that's the way to do it is I I'm not trying to lure you to attack the DNC, but you feel like they've missed that this is a flawed system and that, that you'd like the DNC to have this thing be open up. My opinion would be do three nights to have everybody on. On their new seven eight people in person persons in night, and let people more people more time and let let it play out. Tom Perez about that. Little bit later in the show. So I'm just listening to Tim Ryan here. I've been following his cannon Joe and I really like your candidacy and Donny Deutsch branding advice. Don't give bad advice. Good advice, which you're good at. But I'm thinking that there's gotta be a way to say, well, you all are thinking how to out tweet and out, whatever Donald Trump, Tim Ryan's really thinking about the things that need to get done. But how does he break through us? What you doing? Debate prep congressman I just listened to what you said, a few minutes ago, everything, right on point, right on point, what is not going to be no. And the reality of the world in use standing up there, one of ten and throughout three hours having six or seven minutes. You're going to need that moment. You know, the one percenters this just kind of strategic mathematical fact that if you. Just get up there and do the blocking and tackling. It's not enough by just as the block attack now. So I would challenge you if I was coaching. You guys you obviously can't create the moment. It's got to be authentic, but the same way you turn to him and said, don't hurt my feelings. You gotta show that human moment. This got at me something that people fall in love with little bit from the right side of their brain and just not the left side of the brain that to me would be the one thing I would say to you is let it rip. You know, it is a show up there. It is theater, whether we like it or not. And people are kind of listening, but they're feeling more than listening. So you've got the policy stuff down. I need that human moment. And I would sit and strategize with you how we get there and you may agree or disagree with this. That's what in this viral world that you can't let it rap. There's whatever you would definition of that. It's just not going to be enough to get your policy out that what you said, makes complete sense, and in a different world, with maybe two or three people, but with Ken. And if you're one of the guys was not one of the top three and four. You need that kind of. Sitting here thinking sent me a Bill. You're cleared for landing. Yeah, you you're paid by the hour, by the way to work. No, I totally agree. I will say, though, congressman don't you feel it's important to be yourself at the end of the day. That's who you are. You're that guy from Youngstown Ohio, you're that guy that can talk straight. I don't wanna see you get up there. And you know, turn court wills on the stage. Yeah. Well I mean to me it's about when people find out who I am if you look at the polling, but it's my name ID that's much lower. But I've smaller number of people who know me, and I'm doing as well as people who are known by fifty sixty or seventy percent of the electorate so that tells me that this economic message about rebuilding the country about remembering the forgotten cities, is the in the forgotten towns in the forgotten people is the message that that's going to go. And you just you gotta get that out there. And as I've said, you can go Tim Ryan for America, dotcom, and helped me out. Cartwheel onstage that actually now gene Robinson. Has a question jump in question. I'm getting back to the to the field for minute congressman congratulations. On your candidacy, but we've got twenty three candidates as we speak. Mitch McConnell in the Senate is passing through judges by the boatload, not just conservatives, but far, right, ideologue, who we're going to be stuck with for life. We're going to have major impact on this country. It shows you how important the Senate is shouldn't some of the twenty three. Because clearly, not everybody is going to be the nominee shouldn't be running for the Senate. And then they go home and run for the Senate for seats they could win in Montana or Colorado, potentially taxes. Wouldn't that be more of a contra contribution in a realistic contribution? I, I would encourage everyone that you mentioned in those states to go back home and run for Senate. I think that'd be great idea. But I do think I do think that would be important, but I also think when we're talking about the broader election is to nominate somebody like from Youngstown Ohio, or Akron, Ohio, that can help win those Senate rates racist to who can go to Kentucky and actually put the heat on Mitch McConnell, that can go to South Carolina, and got a great candidate in Jamie Harrison in South Carolina, going after Lindsey Graham. So if we shift the center of gravity to someone who's from one of these communities, that is left behind, and representing workers who are left behind all of a sudden next, shifts, the brand of the Democratic Party, and we can start. Playing in some of these other races. So, yes, get great candidates in those races. And then have an economic message that's talking about getting economy going in South Carolina. Getting the economy going in eastern, Kentucky getting the economy going in North Carolina. That's how you end up winning in my humble opinion, is that not just because it's me, but it's like we need someone from one of these communities that at the end of the day, is how you're going to win with the brand of the party is about the workers, white black Brown gay straight workers, all across the United States, who have been left behind still living paycheck to paycheck still can't handle a four hundred dollar -mergency. Those are the people we need to connect with. And if we do now, you have a broader party, a deeper party that can actually start moving legislation because Mitch McConnell is out of the Senate that to me is going to be the key congress and Tim Ryan, always great to see you. Good luck. Thanks for being with me. Thanks for being with me. My new podcast youth, Rosenberg is based on a simple premise thoughtful conversations with interesting people like Jim Komi. Lisa, Monaco, and pre Perot are each of them. Took an oath as I did to support defend the constitution of the United States, the oath with Chuck, Rosenberg. Listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

Donald Trump president Mitch McConnell FBI Joe Hillary Clinton Senate Jake Sherman Warner Bill US Ohio MSNBC Lindsey Graham George Stephanopoulos congressman Tim Ryan Senator Mark Warner Congressman Tim Ryan Youngstown Washington
More than 305 million Americans under stay-at-home orders; Reporter says she may have infected several others at a 90th birthday party for her mom, two people have died; Florida Governor blocks local restrictions tougher than state order;

Erin Burnett OutFront

44:07 min | 1 year ago

More than 305 million Americans under stay-at-home orders; Reporter says she may have infected several others at a 90th birthday party for her mom, two people have died; Florida Governor blocks local restrictions tougher than state order;

"And you are listening to the Corona Virus Taskforce Briefing President Trump just answering a question there about Iran There's been back and forth of course Dr Burks has been. They're taking some questions. Along with the vice. President Jared Kushner also appeared at the briefing along with Peter Navarro And they are giving the latest update just talking about testing there as well and why a lot of people are still waiting for tests This comes on a day. Where of course You have more deaths and an increase in the number of cases right now. Five thousand eight hundred deaths related to corona virus in the United States. The death toll fifty two thousand worldwide known deaths and more than one million detected cases worldwide. John King John Harwood Daniel. Dale are all here in a few moments. We'll be joined as well by Dr Sanjay. Gupta let me just ask you first though. John King You're the president. Obviously taking a lot of questions they're the majority of them going to the president But testing just did just come up and you heard Dr Burks. Basically admitting a lot of people are still waiting and this whole you get your results in fifteen minutes like the president did that is not the reality on the ground for many many Americans. Though it is not an issue is answering those questions. She also said we have to change that slope. From Dr Burke saying France Italy Germany beginning to show effort that social distancing other message beginning to choke their curves in the right direction. The United States earned still going in the wrong direction and the point you made about testing part of a briefing in which we begin to see proof that the administration gets even though they don't like to say it so candidly that they still have big problems. Jared Kushner being that Bruce Briefing. He's the president's firemen. The president's trouble shooter the President Calls Him when he's taking incoming he's been taking a lot of incoming from governors and others about the performance of Fema than other federal officials. So Jared Kushner is there to say. I'm trying to help the president clear up these supply issues. They bring in an admiral to try to help. Fema streamline streamline logistics and the delivery but to your point about tested Deborah Burke says it's getting better but there are still a lot of people waiting. It was one month ago. The president said one month ago on March six. Anybody wants to test and get a test. Presences month ago We're still nowhere close to having enough test that never mind. Could anybody wants to test a test just for the tests that the states need to try to get a better sample of. How bad is our problem? That's one big issue. The other thing I wanNA know is the Defense Production Act. The president has resisted for weeks and weeks and weeks. He has taken small modest steps today. He's essentially government takeover. The supply chain prevent parts for ventilators. Because they understand they are behind the curve they the domestic they were trying to sans. We finally get it. We're GONNA do this. The question is can they do it fast enough as you go state by state and look at the crunch on the hospitals? Can they do it fast because as we speak tonight there are not enough ventilators in the United States of America to meet? What is coming in a week or three no it? It certainly seems that way and it also seemed obvious for quite some time that you needed a central point person when states competing with each other To get the very same supplies and the people who wanted to provide supplies not even knowing who to call or and the states knowing who to call on their side then the issue is tonight. John Harwood Peter Navarro. Who's supposed to be running that you the Admiral gain from FEMA. Who's supposed to be running that? And then you had jared Kushner who now says he's running that And yes. He's the president's troubleshooter. He also does lack any sort of background in anything to do with procurement or logistics or supply chain management. Just to state the obvious. So you then John Harwood. Is there fixing this yet? Three people now who are theoretically in charge on that platform and of course. The Question Raises Aaron. His whether they are in fact fixing it. Let's just step back and remember four years ago when Donald Trump was running for President Jeb Bush. You ran in the Republican primary against him said you're a chaos candidate and you'll be chaos president. We've seen a lot of chaos during the first three years of the trump administration. And what you have to wonder is that even now. When the stakes are highest economically for life and death one hundred thousand Americans now projected in a best case to lose their lives. Are we seeing more chaos here? We've we've had. Hhs and Alex as our Be in charge of this effort. You've had Then Vice President Pence by then had female injected. Now you have jared Kushner coming in and saying you know. The president talked to one of his friends on the phone about New York and said they're short of in ninety five so I called the head of a hospital I and and now I'm shipping him in ninety five masks well hospitals around the country. Hundreds of hospitals around the country are begging for this kind of equipment. They have been for weeks the idea. It takes a phone call from one of the President's friends to make this happen. That underscores the problem. Not The solution and certainly Daniel Day. You know there was that anecdote from jared Kushner. Basically which was you know. I I guess intended to show that you know once you get the president's attention he'll make it happen. That's a level of micromanagement of course which as John Points out is very ineffective you then at Peter Navarro get up and go on on a very long story that was essentially the same thing You know that the president was able to just make a couple of phone calls and get get supplies where they needed to get. It almost seems to be a requirement. If you're going to speak at trump press conference at pure alongside the president you have to lavish him with praise. That many previous presidents might have seen as over the top. We know that this president like many of us but probably more so enjoys being complemented in public. Just a few facts backtrack city. I was very important that the president continues to give people medical advice that is dubious at best in talking today about masks. He said that in many cases using a scarf can be better than using an actual. Fda approved mass because he said it's thicker and other stuff more. Study studying to be done on the effectiveness of various kinds of devices against this virus. But that advice is not what the CDC says the CDC says that things like scarves bandannas. Our last resort options for healthcare workers. They have not been proven effective. So if you're considering wearing a scarf over mass because the president told you to please don't well I mean right and I'm GonNa have Sanjay about that in just a moment as well. I mean just as to where that sort of a claim would come from John King. In the meantime the president did just say that. They're looking at a lot of different bands in response to a question about Japan Barring people from the United States Americans coming in Whether he would reply in kind his response was well. We've done more bands than anybody. And of course he actually went all the way back to the The original Muslim ban When he came into office but Does that prestage even more bands coming in terms of transit and travel. The issue of the band is if you see someplace around the world that has a growing problem you want to limit Input from their citizens in coming from their citizens but when the president says we're looking at that that has become early the administration. He said he would often say we'll have something in two weeks. We'll have something in two weeks. We'll have something in two weeks. Which was his way of pushing it aside. He says that these briefings all the time we will look at it but back to the the point you made. The president. Did after being urged by Senator Tom Cotton and others in Congress who saw this problem way for the administration did To He did he did. He deserves credit for the travel brand on China earlier and he was criticized for Chuck. Schumer called him a racist and then deleted the tweet for that. He deserved credit for that. The issue though when you go through this and then he does the European band later and again a lot of the public health experts. Tell you look at what was happening in Italy. Spain and elsewhere there was some holes in it I get it but that it was a wise move. It was a piece of the issue. Erin everything else. The issue is not he his reflexes. You're telling me to ban travel from four nation. I will do that The question is when he banned the trout before a nation. At that moment. If you'd said that's a sign we have a problem coming. Let's ramp attesting paradigm. Let's let's how many ventilators do we have? The is it enough other ones we have have. They been maintained. Let's put all the states on alert. Let's pick up whether it's jared Kushner in charge pick. Who's in charge? Put somebody in charge and start this back in January or early February. We'd be having a different conversation tonight. They didn't minimize this for months. Even though he did he did implement that China banned. All right thank you all very much and I want to just bring in. Sanjay now Dr Sanjay Gupta Sanjay. I want to give you a chaser. Spaniard Daniel Dale just brought up the point of what president trump said about masks where he was asked about whether they were gonNA do a formal. You know telling. Americans to wear masks and trump's response was you could use a scarf and he said in many cases a scarf is better. It's thicker that's the exact quote Is that true well? I don't know that it's any any better because it's thicker but I think you know that there's a there's a fundamental point that I think Is Different here versus masks for example in hospitals or healthcare settings? I think what has changed here? Erin and the reason that the you know you hear the mayor now recommending mask I think I think mayor de Blasio also recommending mass where people going out in public it is. It's because of this idea. Now that people who are symptomatic not knowing that they you know not having any symptoms not knowing if they have the virus could still be spreading so these are not hospital grade math that we're talking about the surgical mask or the end ninety five masks but rather some sort of cloth mask to where when you out in public because you're trying to protect other people from you as opposed to in hospitals were healthcare workers where they're trying to protect themselves from the patient who may be putting a lot of virus into the air so it's a different thing if you wear a mask and maybe you have virus in your in your nose or throat. You maybe a sort of reducing at least the amount of virus you're putting into the environment. I think that's what's driving this thinking. It's a little bit opposite. I think than the way people thought about masks again. It's not to protect yourself. It's to protect others from you right and and and That's I think what I think. That's what the the You know. President trump has talked really. Well said that you say that because I do think you know because America's not a culturally a mask society you know You know anytime you travel in Asia. Our mask societies right. They see it differently. Here there is sort of you know maybe maybe people feel. What do you say about me? When it's real you know when they see someone else wearing it to your point that you would be wearing it to protect others from yourself Something that perhaps the people think about it more of the they might feel differently. But you know part of this. I think assange we've known it can spread a symptomatically but what seems to be. Perhaps new is that Experts are now telling the White House that it can be spread by just talking or even by breathing which is is not what we had heard so that is that is that really a new thing here and and and why would we just that now. Yeah no well this as you know. Aaron came from a letter that was given to the White House based on some some research. But you know I. I've spoken to many of my contacts and and even spoke to Dr Fouled. She about this a little bit and you know he hears I think another way to think about it is that we have essentially been saying this all along. I mean if you don't have symptoms and you're still spreading it. How are you spreading it just through your three your breath and you're not coughing or sneezing viral particles out? You're just basically the viral particles are in the back of your throat and your nose and just through daily activities of life talking breathing here. You're releasing a little bit of virus into the air. I will say this I it is it is true. I mean the science I think is pretty clear. Now that can happen. But how much is that? Really driving the spread of this It's probably a lot less than than someone who's clearly symptomatic. Those are the people were probably really driving the majority of spread it. It's something to be aware of and obviously we're doing everything we can. People want to do everything we can. To to mitigate slow down the spread of this virus so this is another step and another thing to be aware of right certainly And one that will cause some concern among all right. I mean I guess in a sense when you think about it when we hear them. We're going to talk to someone you know later in the show you know the number of people who are getting this from parties or you know casuals group settings choirs. It's clear that what you're saying is true but but You know hearing it. Nonetheless is is quite sobering and it comes on as one of the death toll models at the White House has been giving. They're talking about these briefings was just revised upwards. They had originally projected eighty two thousand deaths by August. They're now projecting ninety three thousand five hundred again. These are projections. They're not any better than the inputs that they have right. And that is a crucial caveat now because everything is an assumption but wh what has changed why would that change so quickly well. It's really interesting and we spent a lot of time looking at these models and spoke to Chris Chris. Murray who who who developed these models at the University of Washington? You know what's Interesting Erin? Is that you're putting in new inputs every day and one of the things as I think you and I talked about last night that is fundamental to these models. Is that by the end of this week by Friday. Tomorrow you have to have every state would stay at home orders. That was I if the these numbers would only be around what they are. You know. Eighty to ninety thousand If you actually had stay at home orders in every state every day that goes by where you don't have those and they're still several states that don't have some of declared it but have implemented it yet. It drives up the numbers so that was one thing but in addition when you really dug into those numbers as we did today you found that the critical shortage of hospital beds in. Icu BEDS WHAT. They predict those shortfalls. We'll be also went up air and so you know Impart if you're saying look we don't have enough. Icu beds for the patients. Who are going to need them. That means there's patients who aren't going to get the care that could save their lives and sadly that drives up these these mortality numbers as well so the two things are going hand in hand they may bounce around a bit As we hear as some of these hospitals or developing surge capacity and we're seeing field hospitals Near you and New York City but right now you know th they're not going in the right direction all right. Sanjay thank you very much. And don't Miss Sanjay's because he's GonNa be here In the top of the hour for the Global Corona virus. Townhall along with a governor Cuomo and Dr Faucher and next a reporter covering the krona virus may have infected at least six people at our nine year. Old Mother's birthday party to people at that party have died but she wants to speak to you. Because there's something she wants everyone to know about this virus tonight plus breaking news. The cruise ship with passengers who have corona virus has docked in Florida the lengths that Fort Lauderdale is going to tonight to keep people safe and update. You don't WanNa miss to a story. We first brought you yesterday. You're going to pay this eleven hundred dollar rent. I don't know when you're scared. You don't see nothing but fear you're about to see Zacchaeus O.`Neil like you've never seen him before the show about my life just because I have more than the average guy as a main. I'm better than they over. Scott Shack like all new Thursdays at nine on TNT as the corona virus pandemic has four schools across the country to close teachers are scrambling to get their curriculum and their students online. I'm poppy harlow in this week. On boss files. I talked to two leaders who are supporting those teachers students and their parents during this crisis Russia Johnny the founder and CEO of girls who code and Joe Holland the CEO of teachers pay teachers. They talk to me about how their organizations are working to help the most vulnerable students during this uncertain time. You can listen to the latest episode of Boss Files. Wherever you get your podcasts tonight. The number of reported Corona virus deaths in New Jersey only second to New York. At least two of those deaths and six other cases linked to a ninety year. Old's birthday party a radio reporter who was covering the outbreak in new Rochelle. New York. Remember when when that was where the outbreak was. Just outside New York City She threw the party for her mother and she didn't know she had the virus. She has since tested positive Her mother and father also tested positive and her mother's best friend was among the two people who died after that party Out Front now w our radios. Alice Stockton Rossini and Alice Look this is a. This is a tragic story and a really upsetting story. I I I just want to give you a chance to tell it you had a party. March eighth for your mom at a church. Twenty-five of her friends were there. Things seemed okay you. Obviously we're not sick. What happened in the next few days the day after the party? My mother got really sick and she didn't have symptoms that were like any other symptoms. We had heard about There was you know congestion but she was throwing up. She had a really high fever. She was sick for several days and finally when her fevers spiked. To one hundred two. We took her to the hospital. She stayed in the hospital for it seemed like forever four days and she tested positive for corona virus. She was the first test positive for corona virus at Southern Ocean County Hospital and it was at that point. The health department reached out to me and dawned on that there was a good chance having been in West Chester several times since the Manhattan lawyer had tested positive in the beginning of March and he was the first case in Manhattan. That there was a good chance that I had brought it home and brought it to our congregation at all. I can say is that at that point. We did not know how how quickly this virus spread even reporters like myself. Were saying you know more people die of the flow. It's not going to be much worse than that. We don't WANNA make a big deal out of nothing and we quickly found out that it was a big deal that it spreads very quickly and that social distancing has proven to be the way to control it in within a week seven people in the Church had tested positive. And and they as you said six cases your your parents and two of those Two of those people who are at the party died I mean. Did it ever occur you? Alice during the party. And obviously I know the answer this question but I just want to give you a sense because I think there are a lot of people out there who still may think things like this are okay or things that they can't have it. Did it ever occur to you that the virus could be present and being transmitted? Had No symptoms. You had been covering it but did it ever even cross your mind not not not not even you know. It was the first Sunday that the pastor suggested that instead of sharing the piece that we do a fist bump. That was the. We were like just to be safe. That's what we were going to do now now. Social gatherings were not bad at that point. I had no idea how quickly this virus would spread. No idea at all and it is frightening and it is sobering. And it's not fun to have to live with the fact that you could make someone extremely sick. You don't realize okay so it's obvious. There were older people in the church but my next door neighbor wasn't that she had a compromised immune system if you don't WanNa social distance because it's making your life miserable. Think about the people that you don't realize might have a compromised immune system. My brother-in-law was not at the party. If since contracted the virus he is on a ventilator in a hospital in New York City. He's fifty six years old so I mean who knew that. He was so compromised that he was going to get so sick and the other thing. Is you think the symptoms are a sore throat. You think it's a cough. You think it's congestion. No one in my family and now every member of my family has tested positive except for my sign. That's five members of my family tested positive. Not all of us had the same symptoms. They really have to test people that are having a variety of symptoms not just the big three fever and cough and with lethargy. I appreciate your your talking out. I know it's hard I I look. I don't know I don't know how to describe how you how you feel about what happened but I hope that people listen to you and and change if they are still making these mistakes and change I I I know that that is what you hope. And while you're speaking out thank you very much. I'm Tony Shibani and I'm Aubrey Edwards. And we've got brandy roads on a w unrestricted dusty was the first to tell cody. Hey there's this new girl she's really cool. You should check her out flower Blah Blah Blah and. It was right. Listen and subscribe to. Aws unrestricted for free. Wherever you get your podcast stone know if I'm ready to face the world of my own Tracy Lord in his backyard. Low wraparound edging. Tiffany Haddish is back with. We support one another. Everything is going to be okay. The last Oh own new Tuesdays at ten thirty nine thirty central on TBS. And I want to. Dr Jonathan Reiner who advised the White House medical team for eight years under President George Bush. He's the director of the CARDIAC CATHETERIZATION LAB at George Washington University Hospital. Obviously Dr Reiner. We've talked about people who presented themselves with unexpected symptoms as in heart attack symptoms. But when you hear Alice's story I mean what what stands out to you? I mean I think one of the things here is that we have heard multiple stories and we've had multiple people on this show. You know go to a party. Nobody had symptoms. You know forty percent of the people of the party have it or forty people at a dinner party in Westport and they have it or acquire and everybody gets it and now we're seeing it again. It's clearly spreads a lot more easily in some settings than people expect doesn't it? Oh yeah you know there was an interesting Study that just came out of Iceland. I some does a pretty small and very contained country and they can do a lot of testing in a very quick period of time and they tested an enormous population. They tested about five percent of the entire population of Iceland. And what they found. Is that half of the people who tested positive for covert nineteen as symptomatic think for that fifty percent and The those results have been replicated in other places so we think a large proportion of patients who are positive for the virus have either mild symptoms or no symptoms at all or sometimes odd symptoms and those folks can transmit the virus. So this is reason. Why social distancing and selfies isolation is so crucial? Well I mean I think what Alice said it brings it home right. I mean she. She was covering the story You know at the time did not doing anything that you weren't supposed to be doing you know in her personal life but I mean for people just to try to comprehend what came out of that. I mean her parents now are going to be okay but two people died And and and and I and I think a lot of people. Just don't don't understand how how serious this can be. I want to ask you about something on that point. She didn't get a chance to talk about it but she did. Say The the malaria drug hydroxy chloroquine. helped her parents were cover when she was talking to. Us earlier I know another family. They believe. That's what turned it around for their three brothers and their mother again. A whole `nother family unit that was infected. You're cautious though. Tell us why first of all about ninety eight percent of people who contract the virus are going to recover and because such a huge proportion of people will will survive the virus. It's very hard to know from any kind of individual experience What the effect of the drug is because most people are going to survive. And if you're given a drug which you know you're told Miracle Drug and you survive. Obviously it's normal to attributed to the drug in in the press in the past week published online was a very small study from China looking at only about sixty two patients which seemed to suggest. Perhaps an advantage. Small vantage onto treating folks with hydroxy clerk. Quinn and As mice and we need to replicate this in a large number of patients and because the virus is just rampant now and we have so many people contracting the disease we have the ability to acquire this data in a very short period of time and the NIH and other centers are actively doing that this now. The other issue drug Aaron is that it has toxicity. You can hurt somebody taking the drug. There are specific cardiac toxicities that can result in death. So this is not something that you know. It's not like a bowl of chicken soup. You know my mom used to say it couldn't hurt. This can hurt so we really need the studies to prove that it is both safe and effective before we roll it out on a national basis as standard treatment for Kobe. Nineteen all right. Well Dr Reiner. Thank you very much. Thank you for raising those cardiac issues. Because I think it's important. You know people people do here right because obviously the president talks about this as a possible game changer and You know we. We need to know about those risks. Thank you very much sir. Next Florida's governor who finally issued a statewide stay at home order now overriding tougher guidelines that some communities in his state already had in place. This is the number of cases in the state of Florida spikes plus business owner forced to lay off six hundred people but she is still paying their health benefits. How much longer can she afford to do it? She's out front. What is leadership? Look like in times of crisis. I'm poppy harlow in for the next several weeks. My show boss files is going to bring you. Conversations with business leaders who are trying to navigate the economic fallout of the corona virus pandemic in real time. We ask how. They're looking out for their employees. How they're planning for a future that will undoubtedly look very different for their business. Look for new episodes of this boss files special series every Thursday. I hope you'll join us with a no-holds-barred election right around the corner. Take a look at some of the most hard-fought presidential races throughout history the CNN original series race for the White House's bat for a brand new season Sundays at nine on CNN tonight. Florida's governor signing an executive order that blocks local governments from pacing tougher restrictions to slow the spread of Corona virus. The state was one of the last implemented. Stay at home order. And it doesn't even go into effect until midnight tonight. Rosa Flores is out front. And where's it? What's what's interesting about this governor. The Santa's seems actually you know enduring the stay at home order overriding. Some way. More stringent policies that were already in place in communities across the state going on in Aaron. You're absolutely right and this is an about face by Governor Rhonda Santa's because very early on. He had said that it was going to be up to localities. Two cities and counties to make the decisions To restrictions. To Stop the corona virus was created. The patchwork across the state will now. He's coming in big footing all of these localities overriding these local orders. And at least one of those orders got national attention just a few days ago because a pastor in Hillsborough County was arrested for holding church services in spite of social distancing orders and now this new order has created a lot of confusion but one thing is very clear. Erin I just got off the phone with the DA's office in Hillsborough County and they tell me that the pending charges. The investigation against his pastor is going to move forward because here. This the governor's order is not retroactive. Because this happened before the pending charges move forward which begs the question. Can this pastor just go back and hold church services again? I asked that question to the governor's office and I have not heard back Erin. It is incredible to see what happens. And of course Florida's such a huge in crucial state So significant in this battle against the virus. Thank you very much. Rosa and tonight the race for a vaccine. So you know you've heard it right that nothing's going to be available for at least a year At this point what ten to sixteen months if you count every day since when they started talking about it one renowned epidemiologist though says that the wait time maybe much less than that. It's possible how so well he is out front now. Mark Lips Hitches back with me epidemiology professor at Harvard University It's good to have you with me again professor. So you've been studying this and then you're saying there could be a way to safely get a vaccine out In in way less time than than what anybody is put out there right that it could be months. I mean. Explain how this could happen where we to be clear. We're not placing an exact number on it because there are so many uncertainties and the idea that we have doesn't make vaccine work. It's only if the vaccine is a good vaccine and can be shown that way with the the approach that we're suggesting what we're suggesting is that As a way of testing how well the vaccine protects people. We invite individuals to volunteer If those people are people who are at high risk of getting the disease anyway getting infected anyway have not gotten it yet and our and our low risk for severe complications so young healthy people we invite those people to participate in a study where they would be either given the vaccine or a placebo substance and then challenged with a live virus with alive. Sars covy to virus To figure out whether the vaccine is protective such trials are known as controlled human challenge trials and there quicker and more efficient ways to an answer. So if you got an answer so again the F. is on what the vaccine is but let's say that you have one that's ready to go. How quick wh. How quickly would you be able to do a test on that group and if it works? How quickly would you now? Well again. There are so many uncertainties yet but we are not specifying. Exactly how many months would shave off but But the the strain of such a trial might be a couple of months or three months instead of the usual year or so that it takes to test whether a vaccine works or not by the typical usual methods that we use so could shave off evidence. Yeah I mean that would be. I mean you know who knows again. I KNOW UNDERSTAND. It depends on what the input is the vaccine. But if some of those reports are out there and you have something this summer you could be a few months away. I mean that would be dramatically. Different timeline if all that played out but I wanna ask you about another question professor because you point out how this would be done and how. It's an unusual way to do it right that you're GonNa have a group that doesn't get the vaccine in a group that is they're young they're healthy But then they're going to be exposed to the live virus. We do know that people of course in that age range You know twenty to forty five with no underlying health conditions have ended up with significant long term health impacts or died so Literally that that is a risk that people would be taking. Cracked is a risk that some people would be taking and this is why it would be done with volunteers it would be done with. Volunteers been fully informed of those risks. And it would be done In conditions where in fact they're they're changed their extra risk they're taking on would be relatively small because we would guarantee them under such a proposal that they have access to very good care which is not guaranteed for everyone at this stage and we would We would do everything possible to minimize the disease once. They showed signs of infection if they did. And this is the sort of thing if we a little more broadly We asked people and invite people to take on risk on behalf of others all the time. I just heard on the radio interview with Young Medical Student. Who's graduating early and has decided to go onto the wards early in a special program to try to help boost the medical capacity. She is volunteering to take on behalf of others and so. This is another way to do that. All right well. Look it's a fascinating concept. I think one that A lot of people thinking logistically and of course morally as well. Thank you very much professor upset. Good to talk to you again. And next to small business owner forced to lay off six hundred people but she is still trying to hold onto as many as she can and she is paying health care for her employees right now. How long. That's the big question? She's my guest plus an update. You do not want to miss on a story that we first brought you. Yesterday this woman was unable to pay her rent because she lost her job because of Corona Virus. We have a big update tonight. Tonight shattering a record six point six million applied for unemployment benefits last week. That is double the previous record of three point. Three million. Which of course was set the week before this means that nearly ten million Americans have lost their jobs over the past two weeks because of crow virus and a lot of those job losses have come from small businesses which have been forced to close their doors due to the shutdown out front. Now one of those people who had to lay off staff as her entire business shutdown Britney Ruby Miller is president of Jeff Ruby Culinary entertainment and Ruby you had to lay off six hundred employees still providing them with health insurance. So you know. Pretty Tommy about this. This has been your life building and running this company and your entire business essentially ended for the time being you ended up having to lay off nearly six hundred people a couple of weeks ago. I mean how hard was it to have to do that? To realize this is what it had come to well. It may get worse. It was my father founded. The He's seventy two years old and he built a legacy. He built an empire and my brothers. And I are in the business. And we've been in the business of for the past twenty years but watching my father cry re weeks ago when we laid off six hundred people and say this was the saddest day in his career. That really was the most emotional for me. He never had family growing up and his family were Restaurant People. And that's why we provided healthcare from the very beginning because he always said. I'm GonNa Take Care of my restaurant employs as if their family and So watching him right now when he should be his golden years and he still actively involved in the company extremely involved watching my father's say at a time that he really should peak In retirement say this is a Saturday. Career heartbreaking and you mentioned how important health benefits are. It's an amazing personal story. That because of your father or not having You know family how important that was for him. I Know Britney that you're paying health benefits for your employees through the end of June. Which was important for you to do that. I mean how are you paying for that? And how long can you do it? I mean it's it that's not going to be something you're able to do for an extended period of time. Nobody has a crystal ball when this thing is going to lift when we're GONNA allow guests back into our restaurants and and so for us we've been very very financially smart over the past You know however many years you wanna say but our cash flow was pretty good in the sense of listen This is affecting everybody but for us to be able to forecast we had to make some decisions and so we forecasted through June thirty S. God. Willing we're GONNA be able to open our doors by then and so. The decision really was quite simple When you look at your cash flow and you have to make some serious decisions. That's one that was a non-negotiable for us and does the the federal government. Bill does that help you at all as a small business. I can help you in a very specific tangible way. Thank you for asking. I think I think the cares act is a good start. I think it's critical that we sit back down at the table. I think the National Restaurant Association. So we're under the Ohio Restaurant Association. But it's not a cure all and people need to understand how critical the restaurant industry is not only to our communities but to the workforce we provide a service. We are fifty one percent of the food supply chain in America. We supply or I'm sorry that we employ twenty percents so ten percent of the Workforce Our restaurant folks but the leary businesses in the suppliers support that take it up to about twenty percent and no it's not. It's not as robust as we would like it and so I think as long as we've got a laundry list of things that we believe should be included in regards to there's A. There's a number of different issues whether it's the the length of the forgiveness The percentage of how much is going towards payroll versus other very critical costs for restaurants. That were not sittard I think that we really on behalf of restaurants we would ask. Please sit back down at the table with the National Restaurant Association and get inside the heads of restaurant folks When you consider how important the airline industry is and the bill. That was passed for them. Restaurants should be at the top of the list. And I'm not saying that airlines are not important. I'm saying restaurants are as important. I think all Americans would agree with you on that and thank you so very much. Britney I appreciate your time and we are rooting for you and wishing the best as well as your employees. I know they're grateful for one thing. Row Quick I think definitely important for people to support gift cards because that is an idiot capital that goes to restaurants and so where this package is dead. Still even though summit is sums getting forgiven if you can support if others can support gift card sales that's critical and that's really help will thank you for sharing that because that is a specific thing. I bet you a lot of people didn't know thank you very much. I appreciate your time and I want to give. I want our viewers update on a story that we brought you last night. our come la you may have been watching. She reported on the millions of people who were struggling to pay their rent and we do. Obviously rent was due due to kron virus. She spoke to one woman. She WanNa Anthony in Los Angeles. And here's her story. Did you lose your job? All of us lost because of Corona Virus Shawanni Anthony. She used to make enough a restaurant Rosa Mexicano to cover her Los Angeles apartment rent. Check out five hundred square feet thousand Ma. How are you going to pay this? Eleven hundred dollar rent. I don't know when you're scared. You don't see nothing but fear. Shoshana joins me now and Sh WANNA you know. That was an emotional moment and and and now here. We are Days past I mean how hard was it for you not to be able to pay your rent When it was due I to be honest it wasn't that hard. It will be very self-centered of me to think that I pay my rent knowing that I lost my job with probably thirty percent of people in America so I was able to call them and they didn't respond so that gave me confidence that maybe they understood that low. One Co pay rent at that time at this time and so you didn't get a response from them You know we did get a response Shawna and you know. I know our team called you today and said we wanted to follow up on some things And we do really have an update One of our viewers. Her name is von She's from Illinois and she saw you last night on the show She was moved and she reached out to us. She called US and she says she's GonNa pay your rent this month. Oh I'm very grateful. Thank you MS vine are really appreciate it Stock Right now overwhelmed but yet super grateful. I know look. I'm putting you on the spot. You didn't know this was going to happen but I know I know I know I know and I know that I look. I know people around the country are going through this This the same horrific thing but You know Tammi did not want to be on television. So as I said she she called us And she did have something specific though to say about your story so I just wanted to tell you what it was and give you a chance to respond Shahana so so Tammy said and I quote her. I was just moved by what she's going through talking about. You and I know so many people are going through the most at this time I just wanted to be able to help. Even if it's just a little bit and maybe she can pay it forward even if it's years from now and to whomever she wants just spread kindness. I hope it helps her in any way. That's what she had to say to you. Tell Tammy thank you because in the interview that I did have. That was what I told Miss Kim. That's the goal is to build something for people who work in a restaurant industry. Who have been doing it all. They're like those people I love and it's unfair what we're going through some very grateful for her thank you. It's a pretty incredible thing and I know you say you love what you do. I think a moment just right now for people to realize there's so many people who loved they do who can't do what they do Because of what this is taken from them Yes tell us about that. Tell us about how you love what you do well. I started at six years old. I was Augusta Masters national a food truck Carl Wings and so I used to give out samples as a kid and from there I grew into labor. Which is what I liked working at home. Which was a CD place in Augusta Georgia just consistently work in a restaurant so my first job was in Hueys at Savannah? Georgia and I was very grateful for that because the time that I made money by what I did. Not by the hours. I work in a love that concept of being in college being able to work and make the income that you need to be able to survive and I needed that saw utilize that even after college to make a career in La. So I came to a restaurant here. That worship was closed. Like I said it's heartbreaking. Because it makes you think okay now. I have to do something bigger. Like I can't sit in beset because somebody who is not as strong as me that works in a restaurant and love it and she doesn't know what to do so I mean to take this opportunity to think. What can I build for those? Who Don't know what else to do because we are serving and Bon. Well she has made it possible for you and I think it just goes I I. You know it's a wonderful moment and generosity generosity. We're seeing and sh- WANNA thank you for coming on and and of course thanks very much To tammy for reaching out to us and making this possible they thank you so much. I WanNa thank you for having me. I really appreciate and thanks very much to all of you for joining us. Cnn's global townhall corona virus backs and fierce begins now.

president Jared Kushner Dr Sanjay America Donald Trump Aaron United States China Florida White House Corona Virus Taskforce New York Dr Sanjay Gupta Peter Navarro New York City John King poppy harlow Daniel Dale Los Angeles Fema
Trump plans rally in El Paso as he continues to push for wall; Top three Virginia politicians engulfed in scandal; CNN poll: 62% of Dem voters want Biden to enter 2020 race

The Lead with Jake Tapper

48:13 min | 2 years ago

Trump plans rally in El Paso as he continues to push for wall; Top three Virginia politicians engulfed in scandal; CNN poll: 62% of Dem voters want Biden to enter 2020 race

"Tired of spending hundreds of dollars prescription glasses. Xeni offers thousands of affordable eyewear styles starting at just six ninety five visits any today at Zanny dot com slash CNN. Are there any other politicians in Virginia have something they want to get off their chest? The lead starts right now shutdown standoff. No, you're not watching a rerun the vice president declared today that there could be another shutdown next week. And he said he doesn't regret the first one. Is the last vice president Joe Biden in a league of his own new CNN poll that may worry President Trump not to mention the Democrats already in the twenty twenty raise including one contender who had to apologize again today. Plus, it's not just governor north in Virginia. Now, the attorney general Virginia's admitting he wants a peered in black face to that is the same attorney general who called for north him to step down. So will he be taking his own advice? Welcome to the lead. I'm Jake tapper, and we begin with the politics lead today. President Trump despite some rhetorical attempts to embrace unity and compromise in parts of his state of the union address clearly focused today instead on exciting his base and digging in on the proposed border wall as we face yet another potential government shutdown next week today. The Trump campaign announced the president will hold his first campaign rally of the year in El Paso taxes on Monday, El Paso, the border city that President Trump has been heralding as a border wall success story, though, the actual facts behind that claim are quite unlike how President Trump depicts them this all of course, seems focused not on dealing with the reality of the democratic majority in the house, but on his own re-election effort in two thousand twenty and today, it's clear President Trump is back in attack mode going after the chairman of the house intelligence committee this afternoon when asked about congressman Adam Schiff, the chairman's plan to invest. Negate the president's finances. Adam shifts. Never heard him that would make partisan what he's just a political hack who's trying to build a name for himself. Of course, that's an improvement from what the president called the chairman before with a pointed Twitter misspelling of the word shift. CNN's Kaitlan Collins starts off our coverage today with more from the White House. With the state of the union in the rear view mirror. I just want to say that I was very honored by the statements made about the speech. President Trump is now facing another possible government shutdown and laying the groundwork for his reelection campaign. The clock is ticking. For congressional negotiators to hash out a deal and the president isn't wavering on his demand for a border wall. Congress has ten days left to pass a Bill that will fund our government. Protect our homeland and secure very dangerous southern border. Trump didn't threaten another shutdown during his state of the union address. But the vice president left the door open today. I think our hope is that there's not, but I can't make that guarantee. Jeff house speaker Nancy Pelosi sounding confident the bipartisan committee can find common ground left to their own devices that can have an agreement. On time by Friday as Democrats warned the White House to keep its distance. If the president stays out of it. We will get a deal is when the president weighs in with his heavy hand, his unrealistic heavy hand, he doesn't know how to negotiate that things. Get messed up, but Trump's signature will be critical to any agreement and if money for a border wall, isn't included Republicans believe he'll bypass congress. It's not my preferred choice, but unlike some of my Senate colleagues, so the sano come up the next day, and it'll probably be tied up in litigation in the state of the union Trump laying out what he believes will be the fight of the twenty twenty race tonight. We renew our resolve that America will never be a socialist country as his campaign announces where he'll hold his first rally of the year, the border city of El Paso, Texas. A city the president is. Cited multiple times as justification for building. His wall used to have extremely high rates of violent crime one of the highest in the entire country and considered one of our nation's most dangerous cities. Now immediately upon its building with a powerful barrier in place, El Paso is one of the safest cities. So Jake the president they're saying that El Paso is one of the nation's most dangerous cities until that fence barrier was built he's saying that before they had a substantial crime rate and after that fence was built the crime rate dropped Jake. We looked at the numbers and actually the violent crime rate in El Paso, peaked in nineteen Ninety-three. And after that it started to decline over the next decade and some change President Bush didn't authorize building that fence until two thousand six and the construction did it start until two thousand eight so long before that drop in the violent crime rate had started, however, j you can expect the president to make the same claims he made the state of the union when he's in El Paso on Monday night. Even though they're not true Kaelin Collins. Thanks so much. Let's talk about this. We have with us to reporters in two opinion, folk let me start with you Karen the president's slammed. What do you call partisan investigations last night ridiculous partisan investigations? And here's what he said just this afternoon. When asked about the new chairman of the intelligence committee in the house, Adam Schiff is planned to investigate them. Take a listen. It's called presidential harassment. And it's unfortunate. And it really does hurt our country that cannot be fair that could have been said by Bill Clinton. I mean. Yes, it could have apps, and I was there when it happened. So look at the problem with this with his complaints about this investigation is and you've heard me say this before is that at each turn. We learn something new. We learn about Paul Manafort them. Oh, he might have given polling data that ultimately ended up in the hand of Russians. Right. And then we find it. So the problem for him is at each turn. There are more questions. There are more indictments. So you know, he can complain and whine all he wants. Although the the more he does the more. It definitely seems like it's getting to him. I mean, if he were to sort of ignore it and stay focus and talk about his agenda. I actually think he would there would not be as much to talk about. But every time he says, something we're going to talk about this guy would probably agree with that. It's got I want you to react to what a congressman shift just responded on Twitter. He said. I can understand why the idea of meaningful oversight terrifies, the president several of his close associates are going to jail others away trial and criminal investigations continue unquote. Would you tell the president just stop talking about this? What do you think? Well, it's part of his strategy. I think as he heads into his own reelection campaign if he doesn't get much done over the next two years. You know, you have to have a way to explain it. In the way to explain it is these Democrats don't wanna work with me on any issues or any policy. They just want to end my presidency as early as possible, and they wanna make me as irrelevant as possible, which stopped progress on all the things that I have told you is in my agenda. That's clearly I think how he positioned his state of the union last night was to say, I'm here to compromise. And to offer out my hand, and I'm dealing with a bunch of people who are intransigent. That's how he's going to set this debate. Now, he has to stick with that message and be disciplined about it. But that's where I see him going. And there was action in the house intelligence committee today, the they voted to send more than fifty transcripts from their Russia investigation. Listen to the Muller team. Ship has said he wanted to send the transcript to see whether any other witnesses committed perjury that could be trouble for some other people who testified it's new day in Washington. The house intelligence committee is now being run by Democrats. And so President Trump no longer has sort of firewall against some of these investigations. So there is potential here that some of these things that have been said behind closed doors and committee can go to Muller leading to more charges of of lying to congress, or perjury or other things that have already caught up several people in the Muller probe already and has proven to be in some ways, a gateway for Muller to gain leverage over people who are part of the probe in other ways, you hear from Trump allies that they believe that all of these charges really have nothing to do with the president because they involve, you know, misdeeds or about business dealings or lying to congress in other ways. But these are just incremental steps in an ongoing investigation that hasn't come to its completion. I think the president understands that. Why he mentioned it yesterday? And it was a choice that he made it. He's been making this choice repeatedly throughout his presidency. He's not putting the investigations to the side. He's making it a central part of his presidency because he believes he can use it as a tool in twenty twenty to rally people around him, and it does bother him. He's not trying to hide that. And I think for his aides at this point, the, you know, I think they tried to convince him to maybe put it to the side. They realize he's not gonna do it. So now, he's just owning it and he's hoping to use it as a tool propel ticks in the in the next election could be trouble for close associates of his some have already been charged with lying to congress, including Roger stone. It could be no question at all. I mean bay we've seen that is irritated. But I think the thing that he didn't talk about last night, and at least not directly it's this the investigation by the why the southern district of New York that could involve his family members and people who are really close to him. That's what gets him. I think but I agree with you. That's exactly what I hear from the White House talking to people he wants to last night his state of the union. His launch of twenty twenty. He's seen all these Democrats running. That was his message trying to paint Democrats as obstructionist socialist out of the mainstream. And the rush investigation is going to be a central part of that. But he didn't allow for the fact of his own anger here about if his family and other associates at his business get drawn in then what happened. Yeah. And in fact, let let's play that clip the president trying to contrast the way he wants to be with the way in his view, the socialists in front of him want the country to be like take a listen here are the United States. We are alarmed by the new calls to adopt socialism in our country tonight, we renew our resolve that America will never be a socialist country. There are democratic socialists and people associated with the democratic socialists of America in congress. It's that's true. I realize it wasn't. It'd be another crisis like the crisis at the border that we didn't know about. I mean, I will tell you though. So he certainly made it seem as though the scourge of you know, socialism was coming. I mean the way he's it's very dramatic. But you know, the thing that I found fi find funny, I agree with you. This is red meat for the base. This is setting up twenty twenty what I loved though was that moment last night with the women who are dressed in white and sort of like, hey, you know, what actually you did help them all get elected. So keep on doing. Working for us. My friends got I want to ask you because we're almost running out of time. And I know that you have some information about where negotiations are going. I I mean, I my impression was the Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell who you're close with doesn't want there to be another shot down. I don't know what the White House. Thanks. Where's this all headed? What I hear from Capitol Hill. And on the Senate side today is that they really really really want the president to sign the seven appropriations bills avoid another shutdown. They are strongly United behind the president on building the wall. And they don't really have a problem. If he goes on does the emergency declaration that will open up a whole can of other issues that will play out over the next several months, but in their eyes these appropriations bills were crafted by a Republican congress. This is the last leftover issue. So the advice, I think going from the Senate up to the White House is sign these bills. If the Democrats won't give you barriers we'll stand solidly behind you on the emergency declaration. And if you're going to do that, there's no reason to veto these appropriate. So don't shut down the government. Very interesting everyone stick around. What's going on in Virginia? I the governor's racist controversy now and just a matter of hours the attorney general admits to a similar racist act. And Lieutenant governors accuser comes out with a jaw dropping statement. We're going to sort it all out for you next attempt to anyway, then just days from officially announcing her presidential run. Senator Elizabeth Warren already off message. A you try to explain herself just moments ago, stay with us. You know, what's not smart job boards? It overwhelm you had puns of the wrong resumes. Luckily, there's a smarter way to hire at ZipRecruiter. Ziprecruiter's powerful matching technology finds the right people for you. And actively invites them to apply. It's no wonder that ZipRecruiter is rated number one by employers in the US this rating comes from hiring sites on trust pilot with over one thousand reviews and right now listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter dot com slash the lead. If you love this show show, your support to it and ZipRecruiter by going to ZipRecruiter dot com slash THE. L E A D. The National League. Now. The Commonwealth of Virginia melting into a state of chaos with scandals growing against all three top elected officials all of them Democrats today the woman accusing Lieutenant governor Justin Fairfax of sexual assault team Ford and under her own name provided very specific details of claim against him. Also today a stunning admission from Virginia's attorney general, Mark herring. Who revealed he wants wore black face in college. She said he was dressed as a rapper and the style of the legendary Kurtis blow this comes after hearing had joined the chorus of Democrats who called on Virginia's governor Ralph Northam to resign after north them to confess to having put on black face herring called that photograph on north of medical school yearbook page indefensible from family offensive shocking and deeply disappointing. Let's go to C N N's Ryan nobles. He's in Richmond. The capital of the Commonwealth. Ryan how could the herring have said all of that about north? I'm in that horrific black face image. If he had his own scandal. That is a great question, Jake, and it certainly appears to be a level of hypocrisy from the attorney general, and we simply are not getting the answer to that question because he's not answering questions on this topic. He has been holed up in his office all day, his staff, not responding to our repeated inquiries, all we have to work off is this lengthy statement, which appeared to come ahead of the effort by many reporters, including us here at C N CNN to find this photograph of the attorney general dressed in black face. And this is what he said. In the statement. He said, quote, I had a callous in inexcusable lack of awareness and insensitivity to the pain. My behavior could inflict on others. It was really a minimization of both people of color and minimization of a horrific history. I knew well, even then to put this into context, a herring said this happened when he was in college at the university of Virginia when he was nineteen years old this happened in nineteen eighty he said, it was part of a costume party of that he was taking part in. And he goes to great pay. In the statement, Jake to make it seem as though this would not be what people would traditionally describe as black-faced talks about putting on Brown makeup. But I think most objective observer would recognize that this is also a problem for the attorney general, and it just adds to the list of scandals a gripping capital square here. Let's turn to another one the Lieutenant governor, Justin. Fairfax put out a statement today saying that no one should denigrate his accuser, Dr Vanessa Tyson. But he again, he called her allegations of sexual assault. Not true. Yeah. That's right. Checking what's interesting about? This was that the Lieutenant governor got out ahead of an Esa Tyson telling her story, and he went to great pains to say things like this was a consensual relationship that he didn't view this as a problem that he'd never heard anything from her for many years after it took place in and basically everything that he has said over the past couple of days, it's been refuted by mistakes in in a very lengthy statement that goes into great detail of her view as to what happened on that night back in two thousand four she writes, she writes, quote, what began as a consensual kissing quickly turned into a sexual assault. Mr. Fairfax put his hand behind by neck and forcefully. Pushed my head toward his crotch and the Lieutenant governor taking an opposite approach to governor. Ralph north them in the in the controversy that he's in broiled, and you tried to get out ahead of it. And he's also gone on a blistering attack of his accuser, we're told him private meetings. He's gone into expletive late in rant attacking her. And those supporting. Her. He firmly believes that he is not wrong in this case. And he has vowed to fight these accusations to the bitter end, Jake. All right, Ryan nobles in Richmond Virginia. Thank you so much. Let's talk about this. With a our reporter is Ryan stick around Abby. Let me start with you the obvious here. This is a horrible horrible week for for Democrats in Virginia. It's almost unimaginable. That it could have snowballed in this way. You now have three top officials in that state embroiled and really serious controversies the problem, politically for Democrats is that the two issues at hand here. Racism, and the metoo movement are two issues. The Democratic Party has helped to elevate to the national stage. They are central to what they've been doing over the last several years, but both in response to Donald Trump and all of the controversies around him, but also just trying to make this a part of how they respond to their own base. And so for them to have a governor and attorney general who have admitted to basically using black face in the nineteen. Hundred eighty s which was not a time when black face was acceptable. That's that time has long been passed. And also their Lieutenant governor who is also embroiled in a controversy that is really kind of at the crux of the metoo movement. It's a real problem for them. And I it's not clear to me how they resolve this in a satisfactory way. I wonder if in some weird and bizarre way, the fact that all three of them are involved in scandals almost helps them keep office because why would this guy resigned and not that guy? Why would that guy resigned and not that guy in the one who ultimately would take their job? If all three had to resign is the Republican speaker of the state legislature. And I think that may inoculate Democrats from cooling their jets a little bit here in calling for more resignations three -ality. Here's we've not seen anything like this at all. I cannot think of any historical comparison, at least in modern times to there being, you know, this trifecta of issues here that are such part of our current moment in conversation. That's what makes this so extra. Ordinary. There is a racial discussion happening in America Virginia has been front and center of so much of this with Charlottesville now the metoo movement, but Democrats, you know. You know, they've been a little bit hypocritical along the way here as well. And now we will see how forthcoming they are of of calling for all of them to be out because they don't want to Republican should be leading. What is this wing state here? So it's very odd. But the Virginia governor trip is a one term position that is also changing the sort of discussion here he may just hold on. But boy that grinds everything to a halt and has national implications as well. And Ryan herring was quick a few days ago to call on Virginia governor north to resign because of his black face incidents. What's the response in Virginia? Now to to hearing admitting that he put on black face to dress up in college. It's pretty remarkable Jake because as you mentioned, it wasn't just herring. But almost all corners of Virginia government were quick to call on the governor to resign today. We got a very muted response from lawmakers. No one even wanted to talk about it, much less. Call on either of these two other lawmakers to step down, and it seems to be a level of hypocrisy at that point, particularly in one of the groups that were very keyed in on the legislative black caucus, which is a very influential group of Virginia. Legislators they were the first to call on the governor to resign that started the snowball effect at this point. They've only said that they're looking into Lieutenant governor Fairfax's accusations. They've said nothing about the attorney general even though they held an emergency meeting with him earlier today to discuss these issues, I think you're right about your assessment here. The fact that we had three scandals by three prominent leaders in such a short window of time increases, the likelihood that all three of these men may just stay in power and play out the string until they're. Terms are over. All right. Ryan. Oh, thank you so much a Jeff and Abby stick around another day. Another possible two thousand twenty candidate has a new sign points to a likely run for former vice president Joe Biden. Tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses. Our friends at Zanny optical offer, a huge variety of high quality stylish frames and state of the art optics starting at just six ninety five. You can get multiple frames with this great pricing for less than one pair. Elsewhere start building your eyewear wardrobe from the comfort of your own home at Zanny dot com. With the latest trends in eyewear available in hundreds of frame styles and materials there isn't a better way to change it up for every season. Plus is any offers prescription sunglasses that incredible prices. Visit Xeni today at Xeni dot com slash CNN. That's Z E N N, I dot com slash CNN. And we're back with our politics lead in a very clear message from democratic voters in a brand new CNN poll bring on Biden the poll shows sixty two percent of democratic voters want the former vice president to enter the two thousand twenty race compared to the twenty eight percent who say he should not run Biden. We're told will announce his decision any day now. Let's just dive, right? And now we should point that sixty two percent want him to run. It's not sixty two percent saying they'll vote for him. But still that's an impressive number. And yet, you know, we're still a long way away we are such a long way away. And that is again, what the campaign is all about is to see how people do with voters how they handle the issues like either a couple of things that you know, we anybody who runs has got to have more than just they can beat Donald Trump because there is a possibility that Donald Trump. I know we think it's not likely, but there's a possibility what if he's impeached. What if he steps down what if he's not the person that you're running against you've got to have more than just I can beat Donald Trump as your answer? And so and. I think that's part of the problem for some of these candidates who may be trying to build their narrative solely around that idea. And also because I don't think that's gonna work in every community in this country. That's great. You can beat him. But then what are you going to do for me? What are you gonna do for our community? Is there? What are the White House officials say in terms of who they fear the most YouTube is White House reporters? Do they do they fear Biden Chris Christie was here not long ago? Well, let me let me let me roll the tape. I asked Chris Christie, the former New Jersey Governor of and close ally of President Trump who he thought pose the biggest threat to Trump take a listen. Vice president Biden because he's going to be able to potentially appeal to the white working class voters in Pennsylvania. Michigan Wisconsin Ohio that determine this race in two thousand sixteen is that did you hear that at the White House? Yeah. Definitely eat here that that is a major line of thinking from a lot of people around the president about the some of the demographic mechanics of Trump's win. But I think if you talk to people really about about Trump, it's not just demographic. So it's not just white working class people. I think there's a sense that this person needs to be charismatic enough to compete with Trump who is a major entertainer out on the campaign trail, and in some ways, Joe Biden, actually does kind of have that draw. He has an ability in some ways to connect. Although his previous runs did not. We're we're not successful. He has been known to be more charismatic person. And I think the idea that Biden has been in the past. Discounted or just qualified because of his gaffes. You know, Donald Trump sort of makes the path a little easier for him. I mean, Trump is not exactly the most gaffe prone candidate we've ever had. And so it makes it easier for someone like Biden to go on out there. No question, maybe are worried about that part of the country. But President Trump also watches stagecraft, he watches crowds elect trinity. And he said several times now, both privately and publicly. He's watching tomah Harris. I think largely because he saw her announcement rally, you know, a week and a half or so he saw the town hall that you did with Jake. And he he watched all of that. So the reality here is I think that he is not he knows how to run against Joe Biden and older white, man. I do not know that he would know how to run necessarily against a younger black woman. And that is something that people around the president aren't quite as convinced that Biden would be the hardest camping. I'm not sure that they figured out just quickly how to brand Kamla Harris. He's branded a lot of the other people in the race. He has. It really touched her in that way. He hasn't given our Nick. But so if we are outside of the geographic argument for biding, the kinds of states, he might appeal to it strikes me that one of the greatest dangers to the Democrats as they take on Trump is going too far to the left on cultural issues on some of these fringe matters. You know, the abortion issue flared up this week, that's an example, identity politics. I think some of their younger candidates might be prone to falling into that trap. The one person who might not feel like they have to go out to the fringes to please everybody if somebody who's well known somebody who's held a big office. So where I worry about Biden is he might be able to resist getting pulled too far to the left and too far into issues. That would make anyone else on electile care. And I want to ask you about that. Because actually Biden does face a problem. If comma Harris Senator Kamala Harris, people Scott skeptics of hers on the laughter saying you were too aggressive as a district attorney in San Francisco, you were too aggressive as the attorney general in California. We'll take a look at Joe Biden. Talking in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine his response to George Hw Bush, drug strategy in a nutshell. The president's plan doesn't include enough police officers to catch the violent thugs not enough. Prosecutors to convict them not enough judges to sentence them and not enough prison cells to put them away for a long time. Now last month, the vice president said that he had maybe gone too, far and apologized for his role in some of those tough on crime measures from the nineties, but that's that's gonna be tough for a lot of progressive odors to take as you recall in the two thousand sixteen election, Hillary Clinton who didn't even have a vote in the crime Bill. It was an issue that we had to deal with throughout the election into the general election. So Joe Biden who was champion of that legislation was legislation. Absolutely. We'll have to deal with it. Here's the other challenge. I think that Joe Biden would have you know, I live Brock Obama. I miss him. That's not the same thing as there are some unresolved issues that people have on the left actually with some parts. Like not going after the big banks under the Obama administration. So the Obama legacy Joe Biden, we'll have to answer for that. So his ability to even when he's trying to appeal to some of these voters that we're talking about he's still going to have to be accountable for the Obama record. And then try to say, and here's what I would do differently in a way that will feel credible to people talk about racial issues. You remember when then Senator Biden was talking about then Senator Obama and praising him and the way that he praised him. Take a listen. The first sort of. Right. Voice looking. And then he went on to. Vice-president, obviously, he was forgiven. But please he was picked for a reason though, he was because of the Senator Obama than needed an elder statesman. So that's why we can never make any predictions now that who will be someone's vice president who won't be because the relatives they weren't close then. But then they grew close. But I think the question for vice president Biden is is his first day going to be as best day front runners seldom hold that position. So there's good and bad in those numbers. It might encourage him to get in the race. But I'm not sure it tells us any more than that president Jeb Bush would would agree with you would agree with you, Jeff. I've stick around Senator Elizabeth Warren can't get away from this issue. That is haunted her for years. She's apologizing again this afternoon after a new document to surface stay with us. Remember to create an ad like this one visit pure winning dot com slash CNN. And sticking with our politics lead on Sunday. We're expecting Senator Amy klobuchar democrat of Minnesota to officially announce that she's running for president adding to the quickly growing group of up to nine sitting senators who caucus with the Democrats eyeing the Oval Office as CNN's Phil Mattingly reports last night was a rare moment where we saw them all together each giving his or her best unimpressed face to the man they are hoping to kick out of the White House. State of the union was punctuated by palm. States circumstance. No matter the trials we face. No matter the challenges to come. We must go forward together. And if you look closely, no shortage of democratic senators who think they may be the next Oval Office occupant. They're already to running to exploring one who is listening and another four actively considering the sheer size, leaving even their Senate colleagues guessing I've seen nine of seen seven. We'll see what happens in the end, whatever the number. It creates a fascinating. And potentially awkward dynamic amongst colleagues on Democrats not running for president are keenly observing. I've been struck frankly at how well all of my different colleagues who are running for president have been able to handle the challenge of continuing to work together in the Senate. How long do you think that lasts? I hope months, maybe even years. We'll see there are the friends like senators, Cory Booker Kirsten gillibrand and common. Harris. They are friends. They are sisters. There'll be some sibling rivalry. But in today, we're family and some who are perhaps less so. Are more than others. Nine Senate Democrats with their eye on the White House. But what about the other thirty eight first and foremost is important for a few of us to stay in the United States Senate. There's an array of policy and political fights left behind caucus has their eyes on with the hope that their colleagues on the trail may actually amplify their effort, Senator Jeanne Shaheen of the crucial first in the nation. Primary state of New Hampshire won't be endorsing anyone, but she will utilize the state's outsized influence in the party's primaries to influence the policy debate having an opportunity to have so many people running for president who will go through the state who will hear the challenges that we're facing Chris Murphy of Connecticut, let's focus on a progressive foreign policy wise, Brian shots kitchen table issues and climate change. But both want their colleagues to keep the competition friendly, statistically speaking if you're running among seven or eight Senate colleagues and then a handful of governors and mayors and others the chances of you returning to the Senate. Are very very high. And so it behooves anybody who's running to just be nice. And as to why so many in the world's greatest deliberative body fancy themselves executive material. It's hard to be a Senator and not see yourself as president. I so far have resisted the temptation. Jake. You mentioned Abe clo- which are teasing big announcement this weekend. Also, Senator Elizabeth Warren teasing a big announcement this weekend, the understanding here on Capitol Hill is there will be two new participants officially in the presidential race. Come just a few days from now, Jack and they're off he'll Mattingly. Thanks so much. Appreciate it. Let's chat about this. Because Senator Elizabeth Warren gave a rare hallway interview today to talk about a Washington Post story that in one thousand nine hundred sixty identified herself as an American Indian on Texas bar registration card. Let's take a listen to what you had to say. There really is an important distinction of tribal citizenship. I am not a member of a tribe, and I have apologized for not being more sensitive to that distinction. It's an important distinction. And here's the card from the application for it's actually not the application the registration card for the Texas bar. Do you think this is enough to derail her campaign doing a lot of planning today? But okay, it could be to be perfectly honest. You know, part of the problem with this story is number one. It came up when she first ran for the Senate. So you would have expected I felt like again, we go back to where we're your opposition research people, they should have found this, and they should and before she ever said any kind of declaration about what's out there. What's not out there? What she did. Or didn't do to know what is out there. And clearly they should have found it then now she's in this situation where she keeps apology. Is it keeps apologizing and it does sort of raise the question is there more out there. And you know, you do see representatives from some of the different tribes coming forward, and they're very hurt by this and very funded by this. So again, that's I think we'll continue to be an issue potentially throughout the campaign. She travels to different states where there are different tribes. I should note. Also, they are very offended a lot of these narrative American groups, I should also say they're not particularly happy with President Trump calling Elizabeth Warren Pocahontas, they think that's very offensive as well. Yeah. I I agree with virtually everything you just said about my friend care, and I agree with everything she just said, and I would just say that in politics, and this is true. No matter what part of your in. When you lose honesty and intensity. It's really hard to get it back. I mean, she just said she apologized for not being more sensitive. How about apologizing for being flat dishonest? That's a form she signed a form. She wrote it down on a form that was sort of like part of a job application for her profession. That's not a sensitive issue. It's an honesty issue and people are going to accuse. Her that and say since a tip. No, it's honesty, and that's hard to get back. I'm not disagreeing with you. But just to tell you what she said she said that this is what she believed because of family lore. And that's what she believed. That's what her brothers believed. But this doesn't appear to be going away. Anytime it doesn't appear to be going away. And it's Karen said, it means she's been planning a bid for the presidency for quite some time. The reality is that if she and they try to deal with this last fall had a difficult time dealing with. And she would not answer that question from reporters on Capitol Hill about if there are others like that. So the reality is thinking many forms you sign in a public life. She's a lawyer. She was a professor she lived in a bunch of different places. There's likely something else. So the question is do voters care about this in the moment. It sounds like a big crisis for any young or any new presidential candidate. How you get out of it is a big deal. But the authenticity thing is really an issue here. But she was taking questions on it today. She's trying to push it aside before her actual announcement on Saturday. We'll see if she can to the question of other voters care, they might care in this respect you. You're not running for president evacuate. You're running against Donald Trump who's a real person who has seized on this issue and to some voters. This could be just a sign of weakness for her that if you were to put this person up to run against the man that you want to not be in the White House. They might have a big achilles heel that could be a real problem for them. So she's playing a she's trying to win a bit of an expectations game maybe not being too much of the front runner, but not looking so weak that voters don't want to entrust her with the nomination at the end of the day. I think the other challenge is she has been progressive heroin when it comes to economic policy. That is what we have that is what we had been talking about about her for so long. And now what have we been what have we been talking about for the last several weeks? People are getting to know her. This is all part of her introduction tour at that wasn't the plan. So let me let me turn to the other woman Senator announcing this weekend. Senator Amy klobuchar of Minnesota, I I wanna point out CNN's, Harry, Anton tweeted, Amy klobuchar has run for Senate three times, she's won every election by twenty points or more. And remember Donald Trump almost one Minnesota two thousand sixteen he didn't. But it was closed and each time she vastly outran, the political lean of the state of past elections are viewed as a guide for elected ability. There are few who are stronger, but I don't hear Republicans saying that they fear her Scott. Well, I think they should I think Harris and Jila brand and club char are exactly the kind of candidates Democrats just had success with in the mid term. Clearly, they were able to motivate voters to turn out for those kinds of candidates. He's they're not going to be the front runners today. It's not necessarily a good thing to be the front runner so early. These are exactly the kinds of candidates who could peak later in the cycle at the right time. So she's. Formidable, although I think Jill O'Brien was a little late to the north and party on Friday night. I still think she's formidable in Harris, those three candidacies and club charts right there with them could absolutely spell trouble. If they catch fire at the right moment timing is a lot in this in this process and talking about how she can win Trump country that is a constant conversation. I hear from Reuters. I was at an I last Friday Ed assured Brown event, a small event to people came up to me and asked me if I knew Amy klobuchar was getting in the race. There is a sense out there that the you know, she can win that and things Democrats should play in the middle of the country. Again, Ken, she raise the money. Can she go the distance? We don't know. But I would not discount her at all more capable of winning in the middle of the country, then Elizabeth Warren. So if I'm sitting here looking at the number with baggage versus club char who's you know, doesn't have that same kind of baggage and a track record of not you know, sort of alienating a lot of middle America voters of our democrat trying to calibrate my vote. I know where I look at this issue of timing is really important because with so many people just do the math which I'm not particularly good at. However, if you do the basic math before early states, it's going to be I think virtually impossible for one person to dominate coming out of Iowa or New Hampshire or South Carolina or even Vada. So I think this issue of timing is really going to be critical. And I think you're gonna see people play in these four states differently and make different arguments. I can win in a in a diverse electorate I can win in a more an electric that is more like the middle of the country. So I mean, take a Cape an eye out for how people campaign where they campaign in order to actually get that timing and on a lighter note presidential candidate Senator Cory Booker, New Jersey was on the breakfast club's radio show. Take a listen to this exchange. You don't wanna marry somebody? Now getting hot might become president. Somebody just wants you for that. No before I declared president. I'm dating somebody this really special. So oh, yeah. So we've got a boo I about. I've got. Got a. Thanks for letting us. He's a bachelor running for president. Which is we have a hand as far as I can it's unusual, and it would be I mean, he's not it's not the only kind of the I in a while. Or I ever candidate that we're going to have the cycle. But it is notable because he is not coming to this race with a spouse that he's carrying around going out on the trail with them. And he's going to get some questions about this. Boo is and has an answer them question. Gossip column reporting, and we'll leave that were quickly becoming the go-to three word phrase among some Democrats. But when we asked what it means some had almost no words to explain that's next. The right sheets can take your sleep and your style to the next level with Boll and branch. The upgrade has never been more affordable. Every set is crafted from one hundred percent organic cotton. They get softer and softer over time. That's why they have thousands of five star reviews and even three US presidents have Boll and branch sheets. Try them for thirty nights. And if you don't love them, send them back for a full refund. Go to bollandbranch dot com today for fifty dollars off your first set of sheets, plus free shipping with promo code CNN to spelled B O L L, andbranch dot com. That's bollandbranch dot com, promo code CNN too. Our earth matters series now and the next two days, and the next few days to Democrats will finally reveal what they say is a massive plan to not only create jobs in the United States, but to help start saving the planet. They call it. The green new deal a nod to FDR's new deal during the great depression. The progressive left is lining up to back and they want their presidential hopefuls to fall in line. Freshman congresswoman Alexandria Cossio Cortes helped right? The Bill and the Bill Senate sponsor Senator, Ed Markey. Brought a special guest on the topic to the state of the union as C N N's Bill. We're looked into how this became a litmus test on the left. The problem is so big it's hard to imagine. But America, and the world's top scientists widely agree that we are running out of time that mankind has as little as a dozen years to stop burning so much carbon and save life on earth, as we know it. But you'd never know it listening to the state of the union the United States is now the number one. Producer of oil and natural gas anywhere in the world. We can do so much more take action on climate change. And while Stacey Abrams rebuttal only mentioned the end of the world in passing. A new generation of activists are now forcing issue in the halls of congress. We brought two hundred young people to tell Nancy Pelosi and democratic leadership we need you to step up. We need you to back something like a green new deal. The call themselves the sunrise movements and after dozens were arrested for occupying the officers of top Democrats. Dozens of top Democrats are now singing their soul. I support a green new deal. When one of the sunrise, founders came back to Capitol Hill instead of calling police Senator Ed Markey gave her a ticket to the state of the union. And he is drafting a green new deal resolution with Representative Alexandria or cost you Cortez. And how specific are we getting is there a moratorium on oil and gas is there a conservation corps there? You're gonna pay to plant trees. What what are we talking about? We haven't announced the specifics of it yet. But it does set a high goal for of one hundred percent deployment of known of greenhouse gas emitting sources into our atmosphere by twenty thirty. I get where we're going to announce time. What it is is asking for at Kim and come now, the original new deal helpful America out of the great depression with massive public works projects. Dams and grids and civilian conservation corps over two million strong. But it also set up the modern welfare state. And so the sunrise IRS are demanding not just clean power but Medicare for all he's settlement funds and climate related jobs for the neediest population. And so more than anything, I'm actually feeling heartened in this moment, you do only gonna look out on the floor of lawmakers and think oh, no. If we have to wait for the Ellen to agree on something. We're doomed probably, but we're not waiting on them. And we are actually building a movement that is going to be powerful enough to make something like a green deal a political inevitability in this country. Division. They are calling for trillions in new spending and the kind of national unity not seen since the Apollo project ironic since Cape Canaveral moonshot launchpads occur Lee being fortified against sea level rise caused by climate change. Ten years ago, President Obama through about ninety billion dollars into sort of a mini green new deal as part of that big stimulus bailout plan, Jake, you'll remember Republicans like the point out Celinda, the solar company that went belly up as a result. But Democrats point to all the successes huge advances in efficiency, and batteries, and jobs and clean energy. How do you scale it up on a grander scale is the question? All right Bill. We are. Thank you so much follow me on Facebook and Twitter at Jake tapper tweet, the show at the lead CNN our coverage on CNN continues right now. File number three are two nine five seven seven one the unsolved murder of short. Blackout. You may have heard of the black Dahlia it was the name given to Elizabeth short. A woman who is savagely killed in Los Angeles in nineteen forty seven her body was cut in half and posed to horrifying effect. For information leading to the arrest in connection of killer. The crime scene photos are out there, but a little warning, you can never unsee them. It's part of the reason that more than seventy years later, it's still the most famous unsolved murder in American history. Black Dahlia stories have been told for decades my sister, and I have heard them since we were little because we were told that the killer was part of our family. You think you committed the perfect? Someone listening to this program is going to bring us Justice. Her body was his canvas and his scalpel was his paintbrush. That's our goal. And for twenty years. He's been uncovering evidence luring him closer to the devastating truth. It was just like one of these flash moments. This is it this is why he did it. It was the first time. I started thinking like my father. But this isn't just a black Dahlia story, this is the story of family. Our family and it's terrible past. When I found my birth. Mom. She told me her father, which would be my grandfather had an I q higher than Einstein. And that he had been investigated in the black Dahlia murder so about by about his time. I'm ready to drop dead, the more and more. I learned about it growing up. I just thought, wow, I'm from a really dark family. This got a lot of fucked up things that I don't even know about their psycho pens, and they're still shoe pads. And I tried to figure out which one my mother was it turns out that murder is just one of the dark Odell secrets open a couple of closets. Go back generation or two and you're gonna find some pretty shocking things for the first time ever all of us are ready to tell our story. The real story of the hotel family rolled crazy. But everybody is my name is Yvette and I'm Russia, and we're proud to bring you the new podcast documentary series root of evil. The true story of the hotel family and the black Dahlia up a production of seat thirteen originals a division of cadence. Thirteen in partnership with TNT coming February thirteenth. Subscribe now wherever you get your podcasts.

president President Trump CNN Jake tapper Senate Senator Elizabeth Warren White House Virginia attorney vice president America Senator Biden Trump United States Senator President Obama Congress Trump Senator Kamala Harris
Is Trump Bad for Comedy?

Intelligence Squared U.S. Debates

50:49 min | 2 years ago

Is Trump Bad for Comedy?

"There has always been political humor at has always been part of the political discourse while serving several functions at one time from truth telling to catharsis and also ideally it's supposed to be funny, which brings us to the present moment with the sharp, spike that we are all seeing and comedy that is focused on politics. And especially on the man who currently occupies the Oval Office. We have all of those late night. Monologues? The statistical cable shows the columns and the podcast. And of course, everybody and his brother is doing and Trump impersonation. But this spike in comedy, how sharp comically speaking is it really now when we are. So very polarized. How good and how successful is comedy at this moment. Not just getting us to think. But also in getting us to laugh. Well, we thinks this has the makings of debate. So let's have it. Yes. Or no. To this statement, Trump is bad for comedy. I'm John donvan. And I stand between two team. Two who are experts in this topic by their life experience. They will be arguing for and against the resolution as always our debate will go in three rounds, and then our audience here at the Cape playhouse at hunter college in New York City will pick the winner. And as always if all goes, well, civil discourse will also win. Our resolution is Trump is bad for comedy. Let's meet the debater starting with the team arguing for the motion and starting with, ladies and gentlemen, PJ O'Rourke. Welcome back to intelligence, squared US. You are a renowned political scientist renowned yes and bestselling author. You have written nineteen books on a variety of topics that cover politics, and cars, and war and cooking and cleaning your latest book came out this September with the title. None of my business. So tell us PJ what is none of your business politics. I wish politics were none of my business. I had my druthers. I would never hear the word politics again and just stay home and drink scotch and let the world go to L on its own. Thank you. I'm gonna look ahead at TJ or and Jay's partner. Please welcome Sara Schaefer. Thera welcome to intelligence, squared US. You are a stand up comedian. You're a writer, you're producer. You've already won two awards. You've won a webby award for your work on late night with Jimmy Fallon. You're the co host of MTV Nikki and Sara live with comedian, Nikki Glaser when you were trying to break into comedy, which is a hard thing to do you had a day job as an analyst at a securities fraud law firm, how did that influence your standard for well? My job was to calculate damages for securities fraud cases, and that was like really deep deepen spreadsheets and it directly influenced my comedy. 'cause my first comedy that. I did in New York was to songs one about my cubicle and one about Microsoft excel. All right legitimate. Sara Schaefer and the team arguing for the motion. And of course, we have a team arguing against the motion. First, let's meet Kurt Andersen. You are the well known host of the public radio show studio three sixty you are bestselling novelist. Your journalist. Your most recent books include fantasy land got amazing reviews. Also, you can't spell America without me, which you co wrote with Alec Baldwin you also co-founded way back. This magazine called spy that magazine did a lot of Donald Trump coverage about thirty years ago. The magazine sent Trump a check for thirteen cents. What was the point? That was the it was the end of a very long con- appropriately for Donald Trump where we sent fifty eight famous rich people checks for dollar an eleven cents those who cash about thirty of them. We sent another check for sixty four cents those cash. Those eleven of them we sent checks thirteen cents two of the original eight cash the thirteenth sent checks the arms dealer, Adnan kashogi and Donald Trump. All right. Thanks, Kurt and your partner, ladies, gentlemen. Please. Welcome. Mm, Billy Kimball. Billy. You are an EMMY award winning writer and producer your currency working on the HBO comedy series called veep, which starts Julia Louis Dreyfuss. So tell us why is V so successful. Mark Twain famously said except that he didn't really say that history doesn't repeat itself at rhymes. And in the case of veep, although increasingly we have these these troubling moments when it actually seems like we're a rigorous documentary. In fact, I would say that while we don't report what's going on. We attempt to sort of rhyme with it. And I think that that seems to be somehow in keeping with the current moment. All right. Thank you, Billy Kimball and the team arguing against the motion. And now onto the debate debate goes in three rounds round one is opening statements by each debater intern. Speaking I four the motion Trump is bad for comedy. Here is Sara Schaefer critically acclaimed stand up comedian writer and producer. Ladies and gentlemen. Sara schaefer. I knew something was awry when in two thousand sixteen I did a show in accommodate Lanta Georgia, and I said two words, I said Hillary Clinton, and I hadn't said anything about it yet. But a man in the front row went like this. That's when I knew something was wrong. He didn't even know high felt about it yet. And he was already having a visceral reaction since the election. I've noticed a very palpable change in the environment in stand up clubs. I as a comedian have kind of a sick sense, I can detect tight but holes in a room, I can feel them. There are a few in here tonight. And I just encourage you to loosen just a little. When I go into club. I think Trump has made us all very tense. He is divided us down to a familial level. People have blocked their family members on Facebook people have cut out family members out of their life. They now found out that co workers of theirs are now mortal enemies, so when they come to a club. And I tell joke about Trump the people that laugh are on one side and the people that don't laugh on the other. And now people are scared that a civil wars literally going to break out in the club. That's not a good condition for comedy. So either my audience is divided or they don't wanna hear about politics anymore because they're just sick of it. There's a fatigue of it at this point or they're on the other side. Which is they want me to go off about politics. They want me to go off about Trump. But they don't even want me to be funny. They just want me to scream there's this thing called Clapper. It's something that comedians are falling prey to right now. It's very tempting Clapper's. When you make a really good point and everyone claps, but they're not laughing because what she said wasn't funny. It was just something that you believe. I've seen many of my fellow comedians fall ill to this. Scourge. Again, not a good condition for comedy when you're being tempted. Thank you, sir. Thank you. It's tempting. The other part of this is truth is part of comedy. We like to hold up a mirror to society be like to show a universal truth that unites the audience, but now we can't agree on what truth is anymore. It's hard to know. What's real, and it's hard to describe and make fun of shape of the world. When a huge portion of your audience literally believes that it's flat. That's a problem. Another thing about comedians that were supposed to be fearless. But now I've found that me and many of my fellow comedians are actually frayed and part of that is because online we get harassed a lot. I get you know. If I say anything political sometimes it doesn't have to be political at all I'll get harassed some of its minor. Sometimes it's weeks of rape or death threats. In fact, if you make a joke about Trump in the wrong place at the wrong time, those that's the serious consequences. Are you literally have the president of the United States, bullying, you online, encouraging his followers to go after you? You have your shows cancelled because there's credible bomb threats on your show. So I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the conditions for comedy aren't good. Because of all that comedians need to feel free to be able to say what they wanna say in an environment to break the tension. But to not have the tension breaks them. Thank you. Next bit will be arguing against the resolution, compass bad for comedy. It's Kurt Andersen. Host of studio. Three sixty bestselling novelist and journalist, ladies and gentlemen, Kurt Andersen. I just wanna stipulate first off that our assignment here. Is about what is bad for comedy. Not. Whether Trump is bad for America. I will stipulate that Trump is bad for civility Justice decency. Democracy, the fear ratio that comedians faced and all kinds of things but not bad for comedy. I also was stipulate that here. What we're here to do is not proved that Trump is good for comedy. Although we happen to think that there's plenty of evidence for that. But that he is not bad for it. So bad for comedy. What does that mean? We've we've skirted around that. But but there's two basic meanings that can have right the creatively. Substantively? It makes for worse comedy degrades the nature level of comedy available. And the commercial parts is it bad for the comedy industry. Well, the commercial part is easier to quantify and have actual facts to support. So take for instance, the late show was. Stephen Colbert when on the air September two thousand fifteen Donald Trump wasn't going to get the nomination. Donald Trump certainly wasn't ever going to be like the president and foundered in the got bad ratings wasn't doing. Well. It was the show gonna last sixteen months later. For the first time ever late. Late show with Stephen Colbert beats what was then the number one show tonight starring Jimmy Fallon. What happened sixteen months later? Donald Trump was Donald Trump's first full week as president Saturday Night Live the season of live that encompassed candidate nominee winter President Trump for the first time to sixteen seventeen head the largest audience live for a quarter century. I think there's a reason for that. And I think it's Donald Trump the downside of Donald Trump. And these people who work with him is that everybody thinks they're a comedian because it is indeed so obvious, and so easy, and even some professional comedians were indulging as soon as he was running the as a joke or look he's orange and and easy bed jokes. But in fact, I think for professional comedians, and satirists and humorous like those right veep that actu-. Raises the bar for what they have to do to be successful that the delightful, brilliant, Sarah aside, I think what what Trump does is make life very very difficult for hack, comedians and raises the raises everyone standards. In that sense. He certainly good for political comedy. And I don't think again from my personal experience going on the road to promote this parody Trump memoir with Alec Baldwin last year. There was such a sense of catharsis and pleasure in in the audience. It certainly convinced me in a visceral way, I wouldn't have had from simply staring at a screen all day that the experience of of comedy about Donald Trump is indeed very gratifying to those who appreciate it. They are dying to laugh is that bad for comedy. I don't think so thanks very much. Thank you Anderson. I'm John donvan. Intelligence squared US continues in just a moment. Reminder of where we are. We are halfway through the opening round of this until June squared US debate. I'm John done. Then we have four debaters teams of two fighting it out over this motion. Trump is bad for comedy. You've heard the first two opening statements and now onto the third debating for the motion PJ O'Rourke, political satirist and bestselling author, ladies and gentleman PJ O'Rourke. He's certainly wrecked. My sense of humor. I mean, we elected this giant infant to the White House and in the White House. There's it's like having a loaded handgun in the home. You know, except worse. It's the button and sooner or later this overgrown toddler is going to find it and set off all the nukes. We're all gonna die. But it's worse for me. Because I am a Republican. I'm a moderate Republican, a moderate Republican don't think basket of deplorables, think dipped basket the blower. Blower, yummy, tax breaks and the fine wine of social tolerance arrayed on a lovely bed of fiscal conservatism. I'm just an old fashioned country club Republican, not even an exclusive country club. Everybody's welcome men. I wake up, and I find out that the one person on earth who would be blackballed at my country club is president of the United States, and he g golf that is not funny. I'm not asking you to vote in favor of of tonight's resolution out of any personal empathy for me using simple logic. I can prove that our debate motion is is true. One one syllogism Mabere major proposition. Trump is bad for the American way of life. Minor proposition. The American way of life is comical conclusion. Trump is bad for comedy. He d. Now mind, you we're not debating the question is Trump funny. I mean what I do for living or trying to do for living is used comedy is journalistic technique for covering serious stories such as the president of the United States and give up. It is impossible to be funnier than this president of the United States. I've had some success in the past. I was funnier than Jimmy Carter. But I'm just not funny enough to be funnier than President Trump. Actually, Trump is worse than funny you worse than funny. He he thinks he's funny and thinking you're funny does not produce comedy. I tell you this as someone who wants to an ex wife, but what if the kid has my looks in your brains. Funny itself is in so funny. Okay. Funding funny is actually kind of useless. I mean humor is our response to the terrifying existential void we laugh when we don't know what else to do. But I would argue the Donald Trump is not someone who ever leaves us in a position of not knowing what else to do vote for one thing Trump user joke, but you, but you can't make a joke about a joke or you quit being the comedian on stage and start being the heckler in the crowd because you're angry comedy. Of course has a lot to do with anger comedies wave. Sublimating anger away of diverting anger wave turning anger aside, which brings us to the real question. Tonight's debate serious question. Should we sublimate our anger Donald Trump? Should we divert our anger or should that anger spur to do something something? Not funny, but useful. Should we be trying to understand why are fellow Americans elected this idiot? Why should we be trying to figure out a way to persuade fellow Americans? Never to do anything that stupid again. Or should we be laughing our asses off, and you? Thank you work and our final debater against the resolution. Trump is bad for comedy is Billy Kimball writer EMMY award winning producer for veep, ladies and gentlemen, Billie Kimball. I want to thank intelligence squared for inviting me to be here tonight. To argue the premise that Donald Trump is not bad for comedy an issue. I felt passionately about for over quarter of a century. As my colleague, Kurt pointed out, we're not here. The bar for us for our team is not to to argue the dome. Trope is good for comedy though, though, I'll take that position at least partially, but that's simply that he's not bad for comedy. And in that regard. I I would ask you all to consider the contra positive situation in which we might have found ourselves at this point if things had gone very differently on election day two thousand sixteen which is that we would have. Perhaps president Jeb Bush or president Marco Rubio or president Hillary Clinton or even president Bernie Sanders. Would any of those people have been better for comedy than Donald Trump? I don't think so I think we would be in a situation where we would see not only the shows that Kurt brought up with significantly lower ratings. But conceivably some of them off the air all together as tripoint out. We're not arguing whether Donald Trump is good or bad, and we're not arguing whether Donald Trump is good or bad at comedy. But I would argue that Donald Trump whether or not you think he's funny uses comedy, particularly ridicule. Very effectively Donald Trump actually gets his audience, and possibly some people on the fringes of his audience worked up on his side and changes their minds by virtue of the way that he uses ridicule and that. Is not something that happens perhaps as often as those of us who work in comedy like to think it does. And I think an example that maybe it's top of mind for a lot of us is his referring to Senator Elizabeth Warren as Pocahontas, which one person seems to think is funny. But the rest of you, maybe not so much, and I'm not going to express an opinion about that as a as a aknowledged professional in the in the area. But I'll say it forced her to do something, which I would say at least at this point appears to have been a terrible error possibly one. That's maybe disqualifying in terms of ambitions to be president. So that's an effective use of comedy. That is good for comedy in that it proves its its potency. But which perhaps is a bad thing. And every other way that that you can think of however. If you agree with that from I believe, you still have to support our side. I will report to you listening on radio or on the podcast that are opponents have left the stage. And. I don't know they were shaking their heads. And we're just going to try and carry on. Thank you. Thank you, Billy Kimball. Conclude round one of this intelligence squared US debate where our resolution is Trump is bad for comedy. Now, we move onto round two and round to the debaters address one of the other directly, and they take questions from me. And from you our live audience here at the Cape playhouse in New York City the team arguing four the resolution. Trump is bad for comedy, Sara Schaefer, and PJ O'Rourke are saying that conditions for comedy under the Trump era have turned sour that when we cannot disagree on the truth. You can't really set up the premise of joke in the first place comics are actually afraid they're being harassed team. Arguing against the resolution, Kurt Anderson and Billy Campbell. They're saying it's issue isn't whether comedy Trump is good for comedians. But whether it is good for comedy. They're saying, yes. From the point of view of how the industry is doing they point to the ratings of shows on Trump and how well. They're doing and bottom line. They say because of Trump audiences today are dying to laugh and Sarah. I want to take it back to you that this notion that audiences are dying to after Kurt Andersen laid out you challenged that I think to some degree in your opening statements to take a response to that. It depends on the audience the people coming to see how it Baldwin are coming to see him because they like what he's done regarding Trump. So I'm coming at it from like, I'm getting really mix of people when I perform, and and it's not partisan. I feel like people come to see only art form that people show up to they'll go. Let's go see comedy tonight, and they won't research what kind of comedy it is. So I'll get people in the audience leaving is they feel like I've I'm not on their side or heckling in a way, that's very political. And then then I main -gree take that to credential all comedy, it seems to me or nearly all comedy and humor and satire. We're not only. Talking about stand up perform comedy has has an audience and so the audience for political humor may not be most of many of your audiences. But there is obviously this fervent desire for for Trump comedy for better for worse. I I would also say that to the idea that oh Trump is terrible to deal with in a comedic fashion. I mean, one of the greatest movies of all time to be or not to be about made fun of Nazis during the world during World War Two Dr Strangelove made fun of the end of the world in the nuclear Armageddon at the height of the Cold War. So the idea that somehow because this guy and what he represents the movement. He is leading is is so terrible is not to me argument that like comedy and humor is not the way to go to respond to that. Those those works of art those comic works of art offered an alternative. View to the standard view that was on deck at the time. And in that sense. I would say that having been like a teenager one doctor Strangelove came out that it actually serve changed my mind or made me actually think about what the prospect of nuclear war actually might mean. And that's why you became a pro war guy. I guess. That took years. It wasn't until the draft was over that. I became pro war. But what I what I'm concerned about. And I think it's sort of degrades comedy is that merely making mock of someone is not changing any money. If anything I would say that mockery of Trump's supporters, probably solidifying his support. What do you think of that argument? I don't know for certain whether or not of Trump's ridicule changes mind in the immediate present. I think the fact that he has a penchant for that kind of contemptuous behavior is something that people like about him. So that's an aspect of his personality. I think is drawn people to him and whether or not it's it's it's changed minds. It's certainly has proven effective is is essential to his bombs are good for nuclear power. Well, I actually I think that that is a strong argument. I mean, Trump does very effectively use humor. And then we're going to have to fall back on. Intellectual and moral puzzle of the definition of what bad I didn't make the question member. Whatever way whatever way I can Sarah, Sarah. What about Sara Schaefer? What about the point that Billy Kimball just made that because there's so much bad Trump comedy that actually raises the bar for good comedy. And that good comedy has happened the bars being met. Sure, I mean, you know, Kurt suggested that I'm a hack, and that's fine. The next thing kid knows where he lives. But I I agree. It is it is sets a higher standard. I guess in the pool is flooded. And you have to separate yourself. If you're gonna do a Trump joke. It has to be different. That's kind of the case with whatever is the big thing in the news at the time or what design Geist is. There's a point where everybody's making the same joke, and you have to make sure you're not that. You're joke is unique to your point of view. I think for Trump. I'm just going to always go back to the fact that like. Yeah. Movie making fun of Hitler. Great. But I would have rather have not had Hitler. Do. You know what I'm saying? So like Trump is bad for comedy because Trump is bad for the world. I can't get around that. Moving moving rapidly pass whether or not we're pro or against Hitler. I think we can look at a particular low watermark in in what I guess you could call political comedy, but only barely which was which was acquitted presidency. When when j two and a half years of of Monica Lewinsky jokes, you had a single subject under under Clinton dominated all others. And with Trump you have this, you know, frequently commented on cornucopia of hourly riches of things to us as as an actual premise, and I'd say in that regard. It's not simply raising the bar of in terms of demanding higher quality. But it's also a much more vigorous workout for comics. And let me think since I think specific examples of great comedy that come out of this are useful and ones that may be a lot of people. See I think another Saturday Night Live sketch called black jeopardy where Tom Hanks plays. Trump supporter who finds along with the black contestants on black jeopardy that they have a lot in common. It was it was a genius piece of writing. And I could go on there are are example, brilliant comedy out of the Trump so nightmare. Let me take the point Sara Schaefer, so what your opponents are saying. They're citing some examples. Yeah. Of course, I laughed at all those things. And I think there's been definitely I mean, there's been some really brilliant comedy about Trump. Some of which include my own jokes about him. No. But I think like, my friend, very funny. Comedian Kurt Browner has really funny joke about Trump right now. And he put it online, and it was like really popular online in clubs. It's a whole different ballgame. And I'll just finally just say one more thing I have to say this. But like Bill, you know, you argued like Trump used the word Pocahontas, which is a racist. Or to make a joke about Elizabeth Warren and Trump to me use his comedy not affect. Yes. It's affected but it uses as a weapon and defense. So he uses it to rile up hate. And then he'll win someone goes, and shoots a synagogue. He's like, I was just kidding. And it's like it feels insane. So no in that way to me Trump is bad for company, and it's. Bad reputation again stipulating that Trump is bad. We are all agreed. But to the point of Billy made earlier of this weaponized comedy proving for the first time after debate as long as I've been aware of the idea of humor and comedy that does this actually have any political. Yes, it does. And I think back to the person who was my favored democratic candidate until last October when his life change was L Franken thinking my God, this guy could take it to this president where he lives and be both serious and substantive and fair and rational and all the things that Franken is but also not attempt something he has no ability as Marco Rubio did about the short fingers, I won't get to the point that things move very very fast. I mean, the news meat is having difficulty with how fast things move. How how how something that Trump does on Monday might be material for new story? But also a joke. But on Tuesday, it's already one hundred years old whatever happened on Monday. Does that raise it particular challenge to do comedy well in the Trump era? Yeah, it does genuinely does. And for example. There was a comment a joke about the shows among other things very dirty. And if anyone is listening to NPR with small children and their car, you might want to change the channel. But there was a joke about a golden shower. Probably be most children listening. We'll be fine with that. And it sounds nice. And and and we had to go back at edit out after that became a top witted Trump. We never in. I mean who would have thought that we would have had to remove a reference to a golden shower in veep because the president would somehow beat us to it. And I'll say speaking strictly personally, Trump has been bad for the process of comedy as it bears on on what we do in some respects. Sir. Richard here. A lot of items you identified for the problems you encounter out on the road, go beyond comedy, and the divisiveness the reluctance to put certain things on the table and so forth. Are you suggesting that the topic is simply off limits because if one of the functions of comedy is to criticize that suggests it's just off limits altogether. Right. I'm always of the camp that nothing is off limits in comedy even stuff that is really offensive or whatever. I mean, if you're gonna go if you're going to try to make a joke about something offensive that's on you. You have to deal with whatever the audience reaction is going to be. So I think no Trump is definitely not off limits and think it's just it's sort of like a plague, you know, it's like kind of toxic. It's difficult to do like for me personally. Just see. No. Like, my jokes right now are about what it's like to be an American as opposed to about Donald Trump. That's my way of dealing with it. Still to come more questions from the audience and the results of tonight's debate. When intelligence squared US continues. I want to remind you that we are in the question and answer section of this intelligence squared US debate. I'm John donavan your moderator we have four debaters two teams of two debating this resolution. Trump is bad for comedy down here on the Mike coming from behind you. Hi Dina here when I asked myself as something's good for something else. I have to think of sustainability. So think of the analogy is coffee good for energy level. If I'm a huge coffee addict. I'm certainly going to feel great when I drink it. But I'm gonna have a crash that I wouldn't have had later, and if I don't drink it the next day, I'm going to have a really bad headache, and my energy level would not be what it would be. If I were in a coffee attic to your point about the numbers happening on the industry of television comedy. Now, what happens when we take Trump away can the industry even stand on his own feet. Dina come up and join the team. We can we put on that is certainly Donald Trump's argument who says again, and again, and again, the media needs me the media needs me. That's why I'll be reluctant the media will make sure I'm reelected. So that is Donald Trump's argument in. I think you make a great point about sustainability. And to that point. I would say yes, a second term Trump would be bad for comedy. We're not there yet. Thank goodness in the second row here. Please. Hi, I'm Barbara. Would you agree that Trump did jokes are not about Trump? But Trump is really a concept. And it's about everything that relates to him. Sean, Spicer, Sarah Sanders, the female, Tom Carr, Vale isn't he good for comedy because he has actually broadened the cast of characters. Yeah. I'll take it. Let's think that's eating. Thing is to get really technical. And legally lawyer Lee about this comedy in. Is comedy implies a happy ending? And I'm just not seeing a happy ending and that and so just on that even though he is spawned many comic characters, and we comedian. We supply side people thank him for that. I would not say it's good for comedy in the sense. It's good for dark comedy, which rarely has often doesn't have happy endings. So we can get into the debate about various flavors strains. Good. I mean that that. The the answer characters often have served that purpose in previous administration. So the president was Carlo lists or or somehow less interesting. You know, you had you had your Billy Carter's your your Dick Cheney's. And so that's always aspect to it. But I think we all need to remember as we talk about the premise, actually, isn't even political comedy. But while a lot of comedy is Trump, not all comedy is Trump, and there's plenty of other things out there that are going on and and comedians who you work with. I'm sure are doing still doing hope airline humor. And and if they don't if they don't choose to engage on on Trump, they can they can just deal with audiences on that on that traditional ground. Yeah. Absolutely, sir on the oil. Hi, alex. What about the deterrent effect? People literally being threatened with death for making jokes. So that continues what number of comedians writers would just say screw it. I'll do airline jokes. Isn't that bad comedy? It's very speculative question. But I think it probably is one. Everybody's thinking about is the thing that you're talking about Sarah like going to grow or not and so much that this depends on venue. I mean, I don't think veeps ever going to be in trouble in that way or a novelist. But let's let's chew on that question district little bit. Are you foreseeing that this thing is going to go? So that people are just going to bail out if that I think it depends on the person some comedians get off on pissing people off, and that's their thing. I'm not like that. I think there's a sort of weaponization of outrage and easy target is a comedian. Because specially online where you can't. If you take back and see a tweet from ten years ago, the context of different and now they're offensive or now, we don't like those words, and that's not necessarily a Trump thing. That's like an outrage thing. But Trump definitely plays into that. I think because he he taps into it. He's very good at using keywords and things to get people riled up. And you know, we fear of taboo inflation. Absolutely, no doubt about it. And it's coming from both political all political directions. I would say that we're on a point of kind of a new sort of prudery in our society. So that's not that's not Trump driven thing. I would say it's the other way around. I'd say, I think you're right. There's an argument that the reaction against PC and taboo, enlargement all that is a real thing and a real argument to have or and indeed drove people to Trump. But I don't think Trump drove it at all I think an angry aunt Mus fear in a society, especially when it is producing perhaps or combined with taboo inflation and the result is bad for humor. But I'm curious about this PJ because I think one of the things that seems to be frequently claimed about Donald Trump, and maybe Donald Trump says about himself is that he participates in the breaking down of of accepted norms of discourse. So if that's the case if taboo, inflation what's being bad for comedy. Then I would say Donald Trump is a force in society standing firmly against that by virtue of his own taboo, breaking behavior and a good part of comedy and humor has always been approaching taboos and breaking them. And that's what makes people laugh because you look what she said look what he said. Yes. Hi, daniel. Perhaps comedy is a little too good for Trump. If the dictator was good for Hitler would that affect how good it was for comedy? And Trump is very good at turning comedy into things that are good for him. Because he understands media in a way that is intriguing and different. So if you could answer that thank you. So I guess you could say that I suppose. Yeah. The dot says us sort of forms of of heinous ridicule that was that was affected, but despicable and was that good for comedy and curd has prepared. A really interesting answer. Delivered to you. Now. I honestly, I mean, I can't tell you. How many times I've been in conversations sometimes on a stage even about certainly asked by journalists and especially in the age of Trump. What can that do really have an effect? Yes. It is discovery of kind of atomic energy, and as horrible as been doesn't mean it's been dead for comedy just that it has it has changed the nature of politics. And by the way, the nature of politics were changing long before Donald Trump and becoming a subset of show business. This is just the latest permutation of the show business politics merger. Sarah, I feel like you want to respond to that somebody talked about weaponization of humor before. Yeah. I mean, I think comedy is at its best when it is. Punching up and it's about power dynamic and stuff. And so Trump version of comedy is you know, slurs and making just middle school humor. And what that does it doesn't change his supporters minds. I think it it unleashes. What was in there already? It's like, oh, we get to say that now, and that's disturbing. It's interesting one reason I would say that Trump is bad for comedy is. Because the point I made the Trump is a comic, and he's a lousy one. Now, if you take somebody that many of you people in this room probably disagreed with to the rest of you weren't born Ronald Reagan. He was funny guys laying on the operating table after being shot and looks up at the doctors and says, I hope you're Republicans. I mean, the guy was funny. And and and that was that was much more of a fair contest between comedy and the president this. A lousy comedian, ladies and gentlemen, that concludes round two of this intelligence squared US debate where the resolution is from bad comedy. Now, we move onto round three and round three will be closing statements by each debater in turn making his closing statement in support of the motion PJ O'Rourke, political satirist and bestselling author. I wanna get honest with you, the real reason that I think Trump is bad for comedies these keeping me from making fun of you liberals. Because you're right about Trump. I voted for Hillary. I voted for Hillary never mind that Hillary had Julian Assange setup the State Department E mail server put the Dalai Lama on security duty at the US consulate of Benghazi and geopolitical conflicts of interest at the Clinton foundation were so large. They had to be weighed on Chris Christie's bathroom scale. I voted for voted for. I was having fun with Hillary. And I expected that eight more years of fun with Hillary button. No, no. My political party is being held prisoner. By the bombing 'table show, man. The GOP is a swamp at the mercy of rent gouging, the landlord of the flies and. You know, we have two parties in this country. We have stupid party in the silly party, the Democrats silly party. They say the government can do everything give us free healthcare free college tuition. Fifty dollars an hour. Minimum wage, cure baldness, and the Republicans the stupid party, they say the government doesn't work, and then they get elected, and they prove it. I'm stupid. I'm stupid. So I usually vote for stupid party. I vote Republican because Republicans have fewer ideas. Okay. But what Trump all of a sudden, no no not few enough. So I just want to close by saying that as as liberals as liberals Trump is outside your house pissing on the windows as a Republican Trump is inside my house pissing on the wall to wall carpet. And that's why I think he's bad for comedy. Thank you. Work. Another Lincoln, Trump is bad for comedy and here making his closing statement against the motion, Billy Kimball writer and award winning producer for veep. I'm going to be very brief because PJ took my Chris Christie bathroom scale joke. I don't want to win here tonight on a technicality. But but I'll take it. I refer you in closing to to the question to the proposition. Donald Trump is bad for comedy. You're not voting. Whether or not Donald Trump is bad. You're not voting. Whether Donald Trump is bad at comedy. You're voting on the simply the narrow question of is Donald Trump bad for comedy, my point the point we've made throughout the evening is that is that there is thanks to Trump. There is more comedy and Donald Trump himself like it or not has proven that comedy can be an effective. What I'll call tool. So as much as we may not like what don't trip uses comedy for. He has shown us a way forward for perhaps a more effective and potent use of comedy in support of the arguments and the candidates that we do believe in and in that sense. He's given the art form some new life people flatter themselves that they live in the worst of times the best of times there was time within living memory and the end of the sixties when there was a active islets in the street and more more potent. Disagreements even than we have. Now, there was a time in century before that when the debate became so uncivil that there actually was an uncivil war. With that in mind. I wouldn't ask you to despair too much of the of the partisan moment. But to look forward to brighter day, and and if you support a brighter day, I hope you'll vote in favor. Thank you. Thank you. Billy. That Trump is bad for comedy here to make closing statements. Supporting the motion, Sara Schaefer, critic critically acclaimed stand up comedian writer and producer. My closing argument is just a little anecdote. A few months ago, some friends of mine, and I. We were all individually approach to be a part of a new TV show hosted by a left-wing media personality to show did not go forwards. Don't try to figure out what it is. We were poached individually like to be a writer correspondent on the show different roles and my boyfriend when I told him about it, his first response was are, you sure you want to do this. And I was like why? And he was like because it might ruin your life, and it might threaten your safety if you wanna be in that bowl side. And I thought about it, and I still lied. A friend of mine. Also, if she got as far as going in for an interview, and while in there, she the host apparently said to her along the lines something along the lines of if you do this as a pitch to her. If you do this show, Trump will know your name, and she said, how are you going to ensure my personal safety, and they laughed it off. And they're like you'll be fine. And she turned it down. My final point is that if comedians who are truly the most desperate people for attention and fame are turning down huge opportunities because of Trump then. Yes, Trump is bad for comedy. Obviously. Thank you. That's the resolution. Trump is comedy and here to make his closing statement against the resolution Kurt Andersen. Host of studio. Three sixty bestselling novelist and journalist. I noticed during the middle part of the debate Sarah set a couple of things several things in fact that I thought oh good. She's on earth on her point. She said, for instance, oh, there's definitely been brilliant comedy about Trump. She said that no. She knows plenty of comedians who steer clear of Trump and are doing great again hard to argue that Trump has bet for comedy. If that's so also he he is not bad for comedy because it's so easy to get under his skin. He gives comedy the power to unsettle him in comedy at his expense. Really does upset him. Which strikes me is good for comedy in America. It's a two for he raged when SNL in particular rage when Saturday Night Live had a sketch of him being the dimwitted child to Steve Bannon who is really in control. He was angry at me and. My co editors by magazine thirty years ago went over and over and over again, we referred to a mess short fingered vulgarity and Donald Trump every time we referred to inspire magazine, and it still stings within the last couple of years. He has sent a letter to my co editor saying, no, look my fingers are really normally. So is. You can't ask for much more conduct success than that. It seems to me now seriously. I get Sarah's point this very high for America. The stakes are, of course, naturally high for comedy that is engaged in the big issues of America. They're gonna be and it's going to be scary for comedians. It's going to be scary for critics. It's going to be scary for journalists. It's scary for us. And that's the way it is. And Finally, I think comedy has an important role as a canary in this particular mind, we've been trapped in for the last two years because as long as we can still find things about this mayor to laugh about he has not yet one. Thank you. Thank you Anderson round three squared US debate where the resolution is Trump is bad for comedy. Okay. I have the results now it's all in once again reminding you it's the difference between the first and the second vote that determines our winners. The resolution Trump is bad for comedy in the first vote. Thirty five percent of you agreed with this resolution. Forty two percent disagreed twenty. Three percent undecided. In the second vote the team arguing for the motion. Trump is bad for comedy. The first foot was thirty five percent or second vote was thirty seven percent. They picked up two percentage points, which is the number to beat. Let's look at the team against the motion their first boat was forty two percent. Their second vote was fifty four percent. That's twelve percentage points. They picked up that's enough that makes the team arguing against the resolution. Trump is bad for comedy. Our winters are congratulations to them. Thank you for me. John donne, then intelligence squared yet. We'll see you next time. This intelligence squared US. Debate is reported live at the Cape playhouse theatre in New York City. Robert Rosencrantz, who's our chairman Liam Matthau is chief content officer Amy craft is director of operations and production. Shale matter is manager of Dettori operations Taylor Quimby, and rob christianson are the radio producers, David Whitmore is the audio engineer and on your host, John donvan. Ben. These debates are made possible by generous contributions from listeners like you. And with support from the Rosencrantz foundation, David Coulter. Robert Epstein the Christopher w Johnson charitable, trust alone, a Nemeth and Ellen kwacha the Giorgio or stream junior foundation, Jerry or trim Kelly Posner Gerston Haber the Mortimer de sac ler foundation. Jennifer and Felipe celebrity the poll e singer foundation Edward stern, Stephanie rain, and Emily and antwon van Actimel from me, John donvan and intelligence squared US. Thank you all very much. Now, we're asking for your help. When you give until the June squared US debates five stars on apple podcasts or Google play. You help other people find us. So if you enjoy our debates, please rate and review us.

President Trump Trump Donald Trump Trump United States president Sara Schaefer Kurt Andersen Billy Kimball Sarah Sanders writer Hillary Clinton Kurt PJ O'Rourke New York City Alec Baldwin John donvan producer America Billy
France mourns over Notre Dame after heartbreaking fire; Four committees led by house dems pursuing Trump finances; Gold Star husband speaks out after being deported to Mexico

The Lead with Jake Tapper

47:29 min | 2 years ago

France mourns over Notre Dame after heartbreaking fire; Four committees led by house dems pursuing Trump finances; Gold Star husband speaks out after being deported to Mexico

"There's a new podcast devoted just to the presidential primary. It's called the primary ride home every day at five pm veteran journalists and this American life contributor, Chris Higgins will catch you up on what happened today on the campaign trail each episode is only fifteen to twenty minutes long who's up who's down. What issues are getting traction find out what you missed each day at the end of the day. Search your podcast app and subscribe to the primary ride home. Tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses. Xeni offers thousands of affordable. Eyewear styles starting at just six ninety five. No ridiculous markups. No hassles. Just quality affordable. I wear delivered right to you visits. Any today at Xeni dot com slash CNN. The fate of priceless. Treasures now. Slowly being revealed. The lead starts right now almost a billion dollars already pledged to rebuild the iconic fedral of Notre Dame as Francis. President makes a bold promise this afternoon to rebuild within five years. And we get the first look at what was safe, and what has been lost forever. Breaking today on a story. You heard here I on the lean Democrats are demanding to know more about President Trump possibly offering a pardon to his now acting homeland security chief if he needs it for violating immigration law. The latest on this new showdown over the limits of the president's powers and g died in American hero. And her husband was subsequently kicked out of the country leaving their twelve year old daughter in limbo. A gold star husband now back in the US after ice deported him. Why did this humiliation happened in the first place? Welcome to the lead on Jake tapper. We begin with our world lead the race to save. The Notre Don cathedral is on as the world waits to see what priceless relic survived in which ones were destroyed one expert predicting it will take ten to fifteen years to fully restore Notre Dame. But today Francis president Emmanuel Macron posting a much loftier goal calling for the cathedral to be fixed in five years bowing. It will be even more beautiful than before right now. There's a moving vigil going on Parisians gathering to mourn, the destruction of one of their most iconic buildings a staple of Francis identity, and international rally cry has been met with more than seven hundred million dollars donated for the reconstruction so far CNN's international diplomatic editor, Nick Robertson is live in Paris. And Nick, what can you tell us about this vigil happening in Harris right now. Very spiritual mournful element to it. Uplifting at the same time. Some thing of thanks. The worst didn't happen last night that the cathedral wasn't more damage. We've seen people walking through the streets of Paris to the bridge just outside the cathedral of Notre Dom violins being played cello is being played people seeing a an icon division. Mary statue of the Virgin Mary in front of people that this is a very very moving Sumba, yet, spiritual and uplifting. But as I say, the real focus now is on what didn't happen the tragedy. That was terrible. But what survived the building survived. Tonight all efforts are underway to keep what is left of. Notre Dom intact is a thorough taste work to determine the cools of what is believed to be an accidental inferno in an address to the nation. French president Emmanuel macro said that we will rebuild entre Dom even more beautiful at one that to be done in the next five years. This is be get off. I look inside the world famous cathedral sunlight shining down upon the cross and charred remains at the collapsed. Roof water is pulled between the pews all of it evidence at the grand effort to save the ground, dumb Peres, the Phya rage. Nine hours some full hundred firefights as four to ensure all was not lost earlier. Priceless. Relics plucked from the flames will load it up for transport to the Louvre museum. The mayor of Paris thanking those who formed a human chain to save them. Ill fitting in shin human a human chain immediately sprung into place when the threat of fire on the belfries became more important. We were very very scared. Among the retrieved relics the cathedral's crown jewel. The crown of phones thought to be worn by Jesus himself. The iconic thirteenth century rose stained glass windows and twin bell tower survived to. Don's voice has been silenced. Either the organ. On the main bell note is it manual remain intact. But hours after the shocking loss of Notre Dame spa. The fire brigade says the blaze began in the cathedral's attic quickly engulfing the thirteenth century roof an intricate wooden structure notice the forest recall. The the the the forest because it was made of fourteen hundred oak trees from the forests ethic onions ledgers and experts say France, no longer has trees lodge enough to replace the eight hundred year old beechwood beams citizens stunned by the loss eager to help France's wealthiest families and business owners have so far pledged more than seven hundred million dollars tools the effort to remake the landmark among them LVMH the company behind brands such as Louis Vuitton Fendi among Jacobs. Never know. What's going to happen during this reconstruction, sometimes the private sector can help and have even more ideas? Well, the president the president says that the is going to be rebuilt in five years as his ambitious message to the nation. He said this will bring the country together that the country is faced challenges like this before it will rise to this challenge. Jake Nikola me ask you about that. Because experts are saying it's gonna take ten to fifteen years to reconstruct. Notre Dom why is Macron proposing this five year time line is it realistic. Jacob's pretty interesting because at the same time of him saying five years he was saying let's not rush to do it. He really sort of implying. Let's not get it wrong. Let's not speed things up too much. But yes, the experts who saying for example, where will you find the timbers to replace the roof can never be made perhaps the same again precisely the same at least. So it does raise that question. President macro faces a lot of political pressures in France right now, the weekly per week weekly protests, yellow jacket, protests, really kind of focus on the fact that he hasn't been owed to deliver on reforms and he wanted to deliver. This is a him and for the nation unwelcome. But it does provide a political diversion yet. Again, the the French president is being ambitious as he was in his political campaigns. He wasn't able to deliver. Then the nation is going to be watching him. Now, our Nic Robertson. Thank you so much. We have some breaking news in our national lead. The House Judiciary committee now run by Democrats is demanding answers from acting homeland security secretary Kevin Macalinsan about the story. We broke right here on the lead last week since matched by the New York Times that after telling border agents and collects account California to stop admitting asylum seekers contrary to US law. President Trump told Macalinsan that he would pardon him. If he ever went to jail for denying US entry to migrants. That's according to one official who added that it was not clear if the president was joking or serious when he said that's a Macarena and the president on Twitter denied having offered pardons. Blur all today. Chess officials today the House Judiciary committee chairman Jerry Nadler of New York held mcelwain in a letter that he should be prepared to testify about the incident saying in part, quote, these allegations if true would represent a grave breach of the duties of the president Nadler telling mcelwain and he needs to not only address these allegations. But he must hand over a list of employees who were in Trump's meeting with border patrol agents. A list of individuals to who mcelwain and provided a contemporaneous account of his conversation with the president and all documents and communications related to the White House meeting on March twenty first when the president told then DHA secretary curious to Nielsen to close the border at El Paso, Texas in order that ultimately was not carried out the committee is giving mcelwain in until the end of the month to meet their request. The DHS spokesperson has denied that the president has ever asked or pressured mecca lean to do anything illegal. It's too over this with our panel here. I wanna read one other excerpt from this letter, quote, the reported discussion between you President Trump and other department personnel follows a troubling pattern of conduct that has emerged over the past two years that appears to demonstrate the President Trump views the pardon power as a political tool. What do you make of that? You know, one is tempted to ask what part of illegal. Don't you understand Mr President? I mean, this is really really quite appalling. I mean, he is out there basically flouting US law. The man has no. No respect that the constitution. He has no respect for the separation of powers and he behaves as if he thinks he can do what his new best, buddy. Mr. C CC has done in in Egypt. You know, you sort of wonder wouldn't he like to have a a law that says he can be president until twenty thirty. I just find this whole episode one of the most worrisome that we've seen after Kevin after President Trump told the patrol agents stop letting asylum seekers into this country, which is against the law, the leaders of the border agents and President Trump left the room when over and said don't do that follow the law or else, you'll be held personally liable. You can't do that. You can see. Now, why you would have the level of upheaval at this department that you now only have an acting director. This is the kind of chaos, I think that's taking place when it comes to very serious policy deliberations inside the administration. There's also a sense of inevitability. Here that we're going to have this inquiry from the judiciary committee. They view their role as on their oversight role as a very very critical and important part of their majority status right now. And they also have this good politics for them to they have a very active in vocal base that demands this type of level this level of accountability of the administration, and these type of inquiries and the question is Jen Psaki when and if the acting secretary Kevin mcelwain goes before congress, look he wants to do good things. This is a respected public official. He served in the Obama administration as well people on the hill, Democrats and Republicans have high regard for him. What does he do? Does he tell the truth and risk getting fired or or does he not well, one would hope so, but I think what we've seen as unfortunately, the alternate pattern, which is to find ways to defend President Trump's illegal actions or actions that are certainly questionable at a minimum. This is a case where it's as jarring as it is and shocking in many ways, it's it's not surprising in the in the context of President Trump. And that's why that language that you read is so critical as it relates to the Democrats approach because they're concern is, of course, about this particular case, but also about this pattern. And now there are other people that President Trump may actually be in a position to choose to pardon for political gain or political expediency or to skirt the law and as he's getting closer to his reelection period. This is an offer humane make to others for political expediency, and they want to hold him accountable. And now that that is I think what they're trying to do. I think the focus rather than the pardon power. Which is nearly unchecked certainly President Kim pardon for a bribe and nobody's alleging this president has. But it's more. I think his constitutional obligation in oracle to section three. Where the president must keep faith at the laws are executed, right? He has to enforce the laws. George Washington took on tax. Million. And incited that said, I have no choice. I'm an actual duty. The president has an absolute duty to enforce follow the law. If in fact, he's telling his head of homeland security to fight the law that would be part of a pattern, for example. If I were the committee. I would bring Rex Tillerson back president's secretary of state first secretary of state, former CEO of Exxon Mobil, no liberal. He he told Bob Schieffer in an interview many times I had to go to the presence. And you can't do that. That's illegal. I would like to find out the facts about that as well. So. Neilson Neilson absent executive privilege what that's not executive privilege problem at all. Right. Those I think Linda makes really profound point which is this man has a pattern of seeking to violate and subvert the lot. Even though he is sworn an oath to faithfully execute those laws, and that's a problem and and Bill weld announced yesterday on the show, former governor of Massachusetts a liberal Republican. I would call him a liberal Republican at least on social issues economic conservative. He says is going to challenge. President Trump in the primaries is this anything that could cause President Trump any sort of problem. I don't think so I mean, if you look at the fundraising you look at the president's approval rating inside the party, it's it's a good solid. Ninety percent, you can fit the amount of never Trumpers in early primary states probably inside a phone booth. So I just don't think that they're that. It's really there's this big grassroots enthusiasm for a primary contest against the president. That would be successful. President Trump said something. Thing when about when he was asked I believe he was in Minnesota about congresswoman Ilhan, Omar. And let me just stipulate the beginning. I think everybody here probably agrees that she could have been a little bit more careful about the way she talked about nine eleven let me just get that out of the way. But President Trump, obviously, he tweeted out a video that featured her talking and images of nine eleven, and then she she has said that this has led what President Trump did to direct threats on her life. Here's what President Trump had to say about that. Any second thoughts about that tweet and the way it was produced and put together. No, not at all. Look he's been very disrespectful to this country. She's got a a way about her. That's very very bad. I think for our country. I mean, she is getting death threats. It's appalling, I it's a daily thing with this president. He's now been president for well over two years. He knows the remarkable power that a president's words have including to the unhinged violent what we have to remind you. There was a guy sending around pipebombs who allegedly was inspired by CNN sent them to CNN. There are people out there who are unhinged. And he knows this by now he gets a supreme a secret service briefing all the time about the threats against him and his failing. Thank God for the secret service that they protect our first family, but he knows better than anyone the threats that are out there. And he get he feeds those fires fans those flames it is reprehensible that he would stoke hatred toward any American certainly remember congress. And you know, what is so amazing about this is that I think that congresswoman Omar is I think I've said it before the gift that keeps on giving to the Republican party if he would just keep his mouth shut. He would actually serve his purpose in terms of making her the face of the left of the Democratic Party. But because he gets involved in it, then people like me feel it necessary to defend her because his incisive, you know, inciting violence is is even more reprehensible everyone stick around President Trump back on the attack as the White House braces for the release of the redacted mother report and Democrats are going after the president's money, then how did a father whose wife was killed fighting for the US and f- ghanistan leaving behind a daughter. How did he get deported? His harrowing story ahead. Stay with us. Tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses. Our friends at Zanny optical offer, a huge variety of high quality stylish frames and state of the art optics starting at just six ninety five. You can get multiple frames with this great pricing for less than one pair. Elsewhere start building your eyewear wardrobe from the comfort of your own home at Xeni dot com. With the latest trends in eyewear available in hundreds of frame styles and materials there isn't a better way to change it up for every season. Plus is any offers prescription sunglasses at incredible prices. Visit Xeni today at Xeni dot com slash CNN. That's Z E N N, I dot com slash CNN. And we're back with the politics lead. Democrats and Republicans are preparing for the all but certain fierce battle ahead with the redacted Muller report due out in just two days. But right now House Democrats are not slowing down from investigating President Trump on other matters, not only demanding his tax returns. But now three other house committees issued subpoenas to several banks and accounting firm as they look into President Trump's finances. CNN's Abby Philip has more from the White House. President Trump insists he's not worried about the Muller report. Well, it showed that it's the total. Tony. I don't have to say that I've been just take a look at the conclusion there can't be anything there because there was no crime. There was no anything. The crime was committed by the other side, but simultaneously working overtime to both discredit the investigation insisting it found, no collusion, and no obstruction and attacking it as the greatest scam in political history that is bigger and more important than Watergate. But sources tell C N N that current and former White House aides are worried about unflattering things they might have said to Muller about Trump. Meantime, Democrats are already bracing for a fight over reductions warning, the attorney general it's not his decision to make it isn't up to the attorney general who has said basically that the president is above the law and the rest, so he's there to redact whatever he wants. And as Trump lashes out democratic oversight committees are moving forward with new subpoenas targeting banks that have done business with the president or his associates and seeking more information about the president's personal taxes. Trump also moving the discussion away from the investigation and onto his other favorite topic immigration and stoking fears again about undocumented immigrants look at some of these people you want protection from them. And they're saying we need protection from country. For those aides who testified to the Muller investigation about President Trump. The concern isn't just that the public might learn what they said about the president in those interviews. It is also that President Trump might learn what they said about them in those interviews, and this is a president who prizes. Loyalty above all else. Some of these very aids are concerned that they might that. He might learn some unflattering things that they've been saying about him to the special counsel in a setting in which they were not supposed to lie. Jake. Philip. We're looking forward to that Mahler report. Let's chew over all of this congresswoman, Maxine Waters, chairwoman. I should say Maxine Waters chair of the house. Finance financial services committee said in the statement that the subpoena she's issued are part of their oversight duty, adding quote, the potential use of the US financial system for elicit purposes is a very serious concern. Now, of course, it is. But what exactly is she talking about? I think the big question surrounding a lot of President Trump's actions and the actions of the people close around him is why and what is the motivation? And so what she's getting at and other people in the Senator trying to get at is what is the financial gain? What is the financial benefit from any of these actions? And that's what they're looking for it. Congress has a right to do this. That is how these bodies of government were set up. And if there's something troubling that they are to a could be found that's not on them that's on the people who their subpoenaing. So if they find anything, but if there's nothing to hide then just give over your documents, the president's son and executive vice president of the Trump organization. Eric Trump called the subpoenas, quote and unprecedented. Abusive power in simply the latest attempt by House Democrats to attack the president in our family for political gain instead of legislating the committee is obsessed with harassing and undermining my father's administration. Well, absolutely not. I mean, I do think that we do have a right to know whether or not the president is benefiting. From his office or did. So during the campaign, look, you know, I I'm old enough to remember when Richard Nixon said, I'm not a crook. Well, I'd like to find out whether or not this president is crooked nod, and while as individuals, we may never see those documents certainly members of congress have that right? The law is very explicit. It says that upon request. They shall be turned over to the to the chair of of ways and means so I'm expecting if this goes is supreme court that I I would hope that it would come down nine zero. This has its roots in the founding of our country. Go read the federalist papers boundaries were very concerned about a president who could be compromised either by money, or by foreign pressure and foreign powers, some people believe this president could be compromised by both the reason it's so shocking now, and I'm sure Eric Trump is upset, and I understand that I respect that. But it's because it hasn't come up lately. Nobody thought Ronald Reagan was on the payroll of the Mexicans. The Canadians when you propose NAFTA, we knew President Reagan had a principled position in support of free trade. That's why he pursued it even the craziest democrat, and I'm pretty crazy never suggested that right? This is different this president sui generous. He doesn't really have any logical core. Instead, he does seem to be moved by a external factors like money. And I think that's why the committee has got to look at. And I do think that the president's base will be swayed by Eric Trump's argument that this is just Democrats harassing their family. It's pure ink blot politics, right in the sense that Democrats will look at it and see one thing and Republicans will look at it and see another and that statement by Trump could have been applied. No matter what the inquiry was. And it is it's designed to foment outrage. Amongst the base play the partisan political angle on it, and it will likely, you know, be it will likely be a, you know, a signal that that. That the base does respond to a throughout this. I think no matter what happens with Muller announced Thursday. We can t I can tell you what the message is going to be in the plan is already locked and loaded from this White House. He's already been doing it. And I know after the attorney general brief the White House, the president has been attacking Robert Muller, attacking the prosecutors and the truth of the matter is this is four hundred pages or so not of flattering details. I mean, it might ultimately be exonerating ones or there might not be evidence in their of conspiracy. That's what we're told. Anyway, but it's going to be a lot of fishy stuff. And we're not getting the full Muller report on Thursday. We are getting the redacted version that bar is handing to us. And that's important for Democrats. I think to keep repeating and most Democrats who are following this closely on the hill overseeing committees, they're not going to be satisfied until they get an unredacted version not to share it with the public. But because they have the right to have access to that. And there's ample precedent for that. They should be able to look through that they should have access to the class. Defied information. So that they can help make judgments about what needs to tell you what it's going to be very hard to rewrite the headlines from when the when the bar throwing far from three weeks ago. It's it's right now, it's almost kind of baked in the cake. It's going to be very, that's right. That letter. It was so pernicious one hundred years from now people walk down the quarters at Justice. They'll see that portrait of William bar, and they will say that's a guy that whitewashed for Trump. And by the way, it's worked if the president just kept his mouth shut maybe that would be the image that would say, but he always has to keep stirring it up and causing more problems for himself. Well, he does have this contradictory message. Which is I'm totally exonerated by. This mother report written by these horrible Democrats who are out to me. And it's it it does seem to be like, there's cognitive dissonance. There you see you can't have both right? No. And he's obviously conflicted about it. I mean, he knows that the full narrative of this is not going to look good for him. And yes, his base may be with him. No matter what. But there is a good percentage of people right in the middle who are looking at this. And could look at this looking at other actions. He's taken over the next last two years, and they may say I'm not with that guy again. And he's aware of that he can't win just with his base. He's worried about the people in between. And he's worried about everybody's saying the narrative again, turn Democrats. That's the big question. Let's talk about that next. He's been on the rise. But was mayor p Buddha judges twenty twenty achilles heel just exposed stay with us. Remember to create an ad like this one visit pure winning dot com slash CNN. And we're back with our twenty twenty league today and a key question facing every presidential candidate. Just how important are early fundraising numbers fundraising's, not everything just ask president, Jeb Bush. But the amount of candidate raises does say something about the viability of his or her campaign breadth of support and ability to get his or her message out brand new fundraising numbers show. The President Trump is millions of dollars a head of each of the Democrats including front runner Senator Bernie Sanders with a thirty million dollar haul in the first quarter for the president. CNN's Leyla Santiago has more now from the campaign trail. At campaign events this. We gotta make it happen. Go to Elizabeth Warren dot com, plenty and five bucks on social media in twenty twenty campaign. Emails all about the money because it matters President Donald Trump who's reelection effort started the day. He was sworn into office his race thirty point three million dollars from January to March. It's the strongest fundraising quarter of his presidency. We're going to have a great election. The president's early fundraising advantage, prompting note of urgency from the Democratic National Committee blasting out an Email with the subject line that reads, we must keep pace with Donald Trump's campaign, adding it's all hands on deck. Official financial reports made available this week show. A top tier now beginning to form among democratic candidates, leading the pack. Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders. You have raised a considerable amount of money in the last six weeks since we've been in in the campaign, and I'm proud of that in our bridge contribution used to be twenty-seven. It's gone down to twenty dollars. According to the latest EFI. See filings in the first quarter Sanders raised eighteen million dollars. California's Senator Kamla Harris twelve million former Texas congressman veto Aurora. More than nine million in south bend mayor Pete Buddha. Judge seven million behind them the crowded field of Democrats on the twenty twenty campaign trail scrambling to keep up some candidates who did not pull in as much boosted their numbers by transferring leftover money from previous campaign accounts into their presidential committees. Meanwhile, those rejecting money from political action committees or using it to court voters. That's the way you're running this thing no packs, no longer human being. The lord. While new democratic candidate is anywhere near having Trump totals. They are all aware that the road to the White House will require more support and enthusiasm in the form of dollars. And Jake we are in Charlottesville Virginia tonight expecting Beto Aurora to speak just a matter of hours now to a large crowd there earlier he was in Norfolk a very important day here in Virginia today, the university of Virginia Tech shooting. So he has talked quite a bit about gun violence. And now he will be here in Charlottesville where people are still healing from what happened really just right behind me in twenty seventeen. Tomorrow his expected to to continue in Virginia beginning in Fredericksburg. Santiago traveling with the campaign. Thank you so much. Let's talk about this. The DNC sent out a fundraising Email after the Trump campaign released its fundraising numbers calling for quote all hands on deck to defeat Donald Trump should Democrats be worried. I mean, thirty million dollars is quite a haul for the president on top of one hundred and thirty million dollars last year in usually presidents don't raise money when in the midterms when their party is trying to defend in this case, the house majority this president did anyway, it didn't help his the I think lose the house for his party. But so he's got a colossal monumental fundraising advantage. Democrats going to be very serious about it. It's I think it's going to cost fifty million dollars this year for for for the democratic nomination. So I wanna to see who can raise fifty million dollars in two thousand nineteen to get the nomination the nomination they have to raise it in twenty one thousand nine we get to New Year's Eve, and I want to see somebody with fifty million dollars race in my party. And nobody's close yet. Do you look at the campaign finance numbers when you're judging which one of these Democrats, you think is most vile. Able I think you have to look at some numbers underneath the top line numbers, including burn rates how much they are spending. If you look at Elizabeth Warren, she spent almost much as she as she brought in obviously, she's building an apparatus across the country. But that's not something that can continue for one or two more quarters spent like five cents spend like five cents, which is a good sign. Obviously, he also though has to build a campaign apparatus across the country, and that will cost some money. You look at adverage donations. You look at the number of donations. And Bernie Sanders is an a head on a way ahead on that people. He can go back to and continue to go back to and you look at cash on hand, there's an advantage from federal people who have been federal candidates or federally elected because they can transfer money over. So there are a number of these candidates who have transferred five ten million dollars over, and that's adding to their totals as well that money counts. But it doesn't tell you how much longer they can keep raising money. You're not a fan of President Trump. I think it's to say even though you're a long lifetime on them. Are you concerned that the money advantage that he might have will help him convince those swing voters impressionable voters that he's doing a great job. I don't think that's how the money is going to be spent. I think the money is going to be spent on a ground game and getting out the vote. And that's what scares me is somebody who doesn't necessarily want to see him have a second term. The Democrats are going to have to spend it on ads and name recognition and getting known by the American people. He doesn't have to spend a penny on that. He didn't last time. But he is going to be able to spend money trying to get his core voters out and running that ground game, which the Democrats used to be better at under Obama. They certainly were. But I think the Republicans have the edge. I disagree with that. I don't I don't think he's going to spend this money on grand game. One of the Puget vantage is of this cash on hand that the president has is the same one that President Obama had two thousand twelve when gen sack in all of her colleagues the Romney campaign, and it was the ability to go out into find the field ahead of time and defined it negatively in the eyes of swing voters and. I think that's what you're going to see President Trump do is take cash cash on hand advantage and define the terms of the debate and mostly on contrast issues, and then trying to find negatively every single one of these democratic candidates that way when they do finally get to the general election, he'll already have the framing wants on them. And the, you know, one of the big problems that they'll have is they'll be out of money, and he'll still have that cash on advantage and in the summer of twenty twenty that's going to be huge. Let me talk about mayor Pete Buddha. Judge who is rising in the polls among democratic candidates. He admitted on CNN this morning that his campaign has some work to do when it comes to attracting a more diverse group of Oaters, listen. Well, I think we need to do better. You know, I've been on the trail we found to some extent. It depends on geography. We we had a very diverse crowd at my first stop in Nevada, but less so in South Carolina, and one of the most important things you can achieve in South Carolina's engaged with African American voters in particular, which represents such an important part. Of our parties coalition. Is there a risk for him here at only really appealing to whites? Yes. And he's on it. That's what's impressive to me. Is that you know politicians? They could jerks like me to train them to lie and to say stuff like, no, we're great. We're doing great with everyone. Perfect. He said, actually, it's a problem, and I got to work on it. I find that really refreshing. It is true that I think too many these candidates are chasing, the white liberals and not enough of them are talking to people of color who are the real heart and soul the Democratic Party. Visit some live pictures, by the way, people to judge right there in Iowa polls way to build up credibility. Right. It built credibility in that. You know that you have challenges and the important thing is not only does the candidate the rest of the campaign feeds off of that. When it Kennedy says, this is what we have to focus on. This is how we have to build out. Our not only our my profiles a candidate. But the campaign, and it has a huge impact from for the campaign at a grassroots level. Look, I think the fact that he recognizes it as refreshingly honest. The fact that he said it out loud is even more refreshingly honest. I think he also said in the same interview he surprised by how quickly he's grown. There is work. Yes to do beyond reaching out to African American voters, which is a huge piece of work. He has to do, but he needs to build a campaign team in an apparatus in the early states. That's something he's done. Quite yet. That's vitally important. He needs to travel and spend more time with voters. He has still has relatively low name recognition, which he certainly needs to work on. But that's also a huge opportunity because he's defining himself and introducing himself to a lot of people across the country as well. Visit people you can win gonna win absolutely everyone. Stick around, boss. Bashing all on tape. CNN's K file uncovers recordings of one of president. Trump's key economic advisers comparing his immigration proposals to those from Nazi Germany, and now that adviser is responding stay with us. I'm Biagio Messina. And I'm joke seen we are the producers behind the H L N television documentary series unmasking killer. Join us as we explore the identification capture and arrest of Joseph James, Di Angelo the alleged Golden State killer in a special ten part podcast series unmasking killer, all new episodes premiering Tuesday. February twelve subscribe today at apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. In our politics lead. Now, there are two of the biggest defenders of President Trump in the economic world. But it was not that long ago that White House topic and I'm advisor, Larry Kudlow, and fed nominee Stephen Moore. We're lamb basking the president, and it's all on tape dug up by CNN's K file team. Welcome everybody. I'm Larry cudlow. It's exactly the kind of boss bashing that any senior White House official or hopeful Federal Reserve nominee would want to be forgotten. But actually, the Republican party is very much against what Trump wants on immigration. I sure hope you're right about that. Larry because I'm certainly against it. I think it's a crazy policy long before radio and TV analysts. Larry cudlow would become director of the National Economic Council at the White House. We have two great Larry cudlow whose voices so beautiful and long before commentator. Stephen Moore would become Trump's pick for the fed board seat. Moore is one of the great financial Moreau's both men railed against President Trump and his policies. This guy has a way of kind of communicating to middle class fears and anxieties and he's a demagogue a series of two thousand fifteen interviews uncovered by CNN's K file investigative team reveal Kudlow comparing president. Proposals to those of Nazi Germany. Somebody has to stand up at a debate and say you are completely wrong about mass deportation. That is unamerican it's smacks, by the way of the worst things that we've read about in World War Two Carlo was only slightly kinder about then candidate Trump's supporters. His only real supporters are kind of the fringe of the GOP. I don't know. I call it the nativist fringe, but with President Trump in the White House, both Kudlow and Moore's public talking points sound a bit different. I don't think it's stupid for Trump to emphasise emphasize this issue president's going to stick to his guns as he should on immigration. Okay. It's yet another reminder that the Republican establishment did not change Donald Trump. Donald Trump changed. The Republican establishment. Now in response to the story. Stephen Moore told CNN, quote, I said a lot of negative things about Donald Trump before I met him, unquote and Kudlow addressed his past comments this afternoon. That's one of his earliest supporters back in two thousand fifteen did you so you weren't once some of those issues required up. There's a lot of misinformation that went out we talked about it turned out to be we were wrong, and it's easy for me to say we were on. But right now, you'll never find more loss of President Trump than I am Kudlow also said today that the White House still supports more for a spot on the Federal Reserve Board. And in our national lead today his wife gave her life for the United States. She was a soldier killed in Afghanistan in two thousand ten leaving behind a daughter and her husband a widower. A gold star husband who basic was deported sent back to Mexico a country. He left as a teen this afternoon. Jose Gonzalez Carranza whose lawyer said he had been given an exemption from deportation after he lost his wife is back with his young daughter on American soil CNN's Nick watt now explains how this happened to a gold star family. Goldstar spice back on US soil after a harrowing few days in Mexico to port it. His twelve year old daughter left behind in Arizona might dotted. He's laws. He's not in Brown. Did you want to know why? But you never see. He's fired again till his wife, Barbara Vieira died serving her country this country and this country deported. The husband she left behind the story. I broken by the Arizona Republic newspaper. He's wife paid the ultimate price. And somebody said today where he'd he wasn't the one who died the whole family. So I that and I think if you will tell that to a military family, it'd be offended according to his lawyer in two thousand four Kuranda crossed illegally from Mexico three years later, he married Barbara Vieira US citizen from Mesa Arizona. She then joined the army you wanna get it. But it gives them getting futures. They'll wake you gonna man, Richard. To die pay. But she was killed in Afghanistan. In two thousand ten aged just twenty to an aid station later named in her memory. Mother sister friend American soldier in here for military parole in place. Carajas lawyer says his client who had not applied for US citizenship was granted parole in place after his wife died, it's for military family members. Basically a guarantee they won't be deported. But the lawyer says ice reopened Karan's is case last year that he was sent a notice to appear in court, but it was sent to an old address. So he missed that court date an ice showed up at his home last week Barnes, the officers around to my car while me with weapons, you know, then jet screaming into me, he let his lawyer filed a motion to reopen the case as a stay on the deportation was issued, but he says Karonga was deported. Anyway, I resigned congresswoman Ann Kirkpatrick today telling CNN the story of his arrest is just another example of the president. Inhumane immigration policies that Gonzales Carranza family, has sacrificed so much for our country, and they should have never been treated this way. And Jake ice has told us they will issue a statement on this. But we're still waiting for that. In the meantime, Karan's lawyer says he's still not quite sure why ice deported his client or why they decided to let him back in Jake. Nick, why thank you so much. It's like one guy on a road trip to infect dozens of people with the measles. The latest shocking numbers on this very preventable. Outbreaks stay with us. The cases we gotta find who wrote this note, we do that. We find the killer. This science defined out. Police used Luminol a chemical which close when it comes into contact with the iron component in blood that drama, but where was the rifle, and which man was telling the truth forensic files. The legendary true crime show is now a podcast. Join investigators as they take on the toughest cases with cutting edge scientific tools. Subscribe now with apple podcasts with new episodes. Every Monday Thursday, you'll never miss out on getting your forensic fix. Our health lead. Now health officials in Michigan are confirming a measles outbreak outside Detroit. And they're confirming that it's linked to the ongoing outbreak in the New York City area attributed to parents unwilling to vaccinate their children, contrary to the advice of the medical community. Patient zero is an orthodox Jewish man who drove from New York to Michigan, according to the Washington Post, but did not know he was infected. He's a member of an ultra orthodox Jewish community in Brooklyn where a public health emergency was recently declared more than three hundred cases have been confirmed in New York alone. This comes as the CDC reports two thousand nineteen now has the second highest number of measles cases in the US in twenty five years, and it's only April CNN's chief medical correspondent. Dr Sanjay Gupta joins me now to discuss Andrzej measles had been virtually eradicated in the US because of the measles vaccine are anti vaccine is bringing this disease back. Yeah. I unfortunately, Jake, that's. That's what's happening here. It's not the entire country. It's small populations of people in these these clusters New York, New jersey, Washington, California primarily, but this is clearly anti vaxxers people who are choosing not to get their children vaccinated and take a look at the numbers. You just said second highest level of measles cases in twenty five years. It's going to be the highest since this was virtually eradicated. I mean, clearly, we're only in April, and these numbers are going to continue to grow look at that bottom. Number two, Jake ninety new measles cases reported in a single week. What what does that mean? It means not only are these numbers growing, but they're growing at a rapidly increasing pace as well. So that's a that's a significant concern the anti vaccination movement. Jake. I mean, you know in Madagascar they have sixty nine thousand people with measles right now. Twelve hundred people have died the reason they're not getting vaccinated is because they can't get the vaccine they don't have access to it. They're begging for this vaccine that people over here are just. Choosing not to actually administer. So it boggles the mind lit-, literally if you look around the world, Jake, and this may Andro from New York to Michigan and suddenly thirty eight people in Michigan are infected with measles. I knew it was contagious. I did know is that contagious. Anthony foul cheat told told us, and this is an extraordinary statement that this may be the most contagious infectious disease on the planet. If I had measles right now. Jake, and I left and someone came in here. A few hours later, they could get the measles. Just from the the measles virus in the air on droplets in the air, those are the symptoms that people develop early on. And this is another reason that this man, probably spread the measles. So many people the rash breaks out three to five days after those other symptoms appear. So what often happens Jake is? You are contagious. But you don't yet have the rash. You don't yet know you have measles. So that's that's another problem. You're exposing people without having been officially diagnosed and twenty states are now reporting cases of the measles, how our health officials across the country. Dealing with these outbreaks. I mean, there's been all sorts of strategies even reading about it. It's a real collision of medicine in the legal world here. There's been these proposed fines for people who are not vaccinated in Rockland county. The county Commissioner talked about basically, barring unvaccinated people from public places that subsequently got turned over in California. You may know Jake a couple years ago, they basically did away with, you know, the philosophical or personal exemptions. And they saw an increase in index nation rates after that. But it's it's it's a collision of all these different worlds. Please get your kids vaccinated. Dr Sanjay Gupta. Thank you so much. You can catch Sanjay's new series chasing life, or he travels the globe in search of health practices, helping people live longer that Saturday nine pm eastern right here on CNN. Thank you so much for watching. We'll see tomorrow. Are you interested in learning how great companies grow? Download the Marceca podcasts. About tech podcast tells the stories of real world marketers who use technology to generate growth in chief business and career success from advertising to software as a service to data getting brands authentically integrated the content performs better the TV advertising. Typical life span of an article is about twenty four to thirty six hours for reaching out to the right person with the right message and a clear call an action that it's just a matter of timing ready to learn the secrets of technology driven marketing than download the Martin podcast. Just search Martin M A R T E C H wherever you download your podcasts. Are you interested in learning how enterprise scale companies drive organic traffic to increase their online visibility than download the Loyola's of search podcast from the heart of Silicon Valley here? Search metrics Inc. CEO Jordan Kuni as he delivers actionable insights into how to use data to navigate the ever changing landscape of Google apple pin. Amazon. The voices of search podcast harm search engine marketers and business analysts with the latest news and insights, they need to navigate the ever changing landscape of search engine optimization and content. 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President Donald Trump President CNN US Francis president Emmanuel Mac Trump White House White House official President Reagan Jake Mr President President Kim pardon California New York apple Jake tapper Democratic Party Senator Bernie Sanders
The Electoral College is f*cking stupid.

Pod Save America

1:39:52 hr | 2 years ago

The Electoral College is f*cking stupid.

"The presenting sponsor pods have America is Ziprecruiter as a site built for making hiring fast and efficient ziprecruiter has a question do you like waiting no according to conventional wisdom good things come to those away but in business how much of a virtuous patients really isn't the early bird gets the one when it comes to to hire closed the door on it Dan why do you think a big discussion about these democratic reforms is happening now in this campaign in a way that it hasn't in arms during CNN townhall this week Elizabeth Warren endorsed eliminating the Electoral College Multiple candidates have talked about adding seats to the Supreme Court or instituting term limits on justices they've talked about statehood for DC in Puerto Rico they've talked about getting rid of Gerrymandering and making it easier to vote you call them small d democratic reforms opposed to soros-funded Socialist power-grabs. Yeah I thought you know I'm a I'm a messaging guy so speak in Boston accent might become a facebook page near you it's it's worth checking out all right let's start with the news so over the last few weeks a lot of the Democratic presidential candidates have been talking a lot about what I will call small d democratic re- Ed Watch this John Writing a watched ziprecruiter always boils go to Ziprecruiter dot com slash crooked you can try it for free within the first day waiting sucks if you're hiring good ziprecruiter dot com slash credit to see how efficient hiring can be if waiting is your thing ziprecruiter apologizes for how little of it you'll have to New York Times on the game talked about the new Elizabeth Homes Documentary and they interviewed busy Phillips of busy tonight tickets are still available for our shows in New England in Boston and Concord you can get them crooked dot com slash events If you live in Boston you might also be seeing a promo video that involves Tommy and me teaching love it how does okay I think that these issues has risen to the top for a couple of reasons one is any other presidential campaign I can remember and why is it so important why should people care about these seemingly unconnected set of proposals I I liked welcome to Pod Save America I'm John I'm Dan pfeiffer later in the pod you'll hear Jon Lovitz conversation with congresswoman more and underwood stopped by clicking headquarters this week collages mad same walk in the park and Napper fully thought out tweet love it that's ziprecruiter dot com slash crooked which is the smartest way and you might have heard me Nag Cory Booker about getting rid of the filibuster in our interview this week and he did change his position the little saying he's not a art to the latest on the candidates looking to beat the president in twenty twenty on the new episode of Pod Save the world. Tom Talks about online extremism with Charlie Ward. Yeah before that we're going to talk about the news from why Democrats are embracing ideas like eliminating the electoral college and the Filibuster to trump's new strategy around a potential muller there is sort of a homogeneous of on policy issues where people are pretty close to each other on what they would do if they were president and with the right experience and invite them to apply for a waiting at this point or anti way I think we're anti wait okay it's affected eighty percents of employers who post on Ziprecruiter get a quality candidate to the the fact that both trump's election and the behavior of Mitch McConnell and the Republicans both before trump's election it's only after trump's election Dana world in which the voices of the majority of Americans are diminished by a set of anti-democratic rules and laws in this country word a essentially plutocratic minority rule in this country and something has to be done about it because the system can't institutions the last two republican presidents one elections without winning the popular vote Republicans held onto the House of Representatives for so long because it's not true we know that the Republican Party both through trump but also before trump have exploited the loopholes in the system to push forward they get to draw congressional districts and basically pick their voters Republicans have an advantage in the Senate because their voters as polarization has continued has shown that there are fundamental flaws in our political system that the system itself is based on this notion that you would have to parties operating now live in rural mostly sparsely populated states plus in addition to that there's a rule called the filibuster laws and institutions in rules has established minority rule in a country and so the majority of people in this country when they go to vote their voices are not I think that last point is is key I mean we now have one political party that's established minority rules by maintaining a set of anti-democratic rules laws the area of distinction is how they would get those things done and I think these this discussion comes from in equally good faith trying to achieve different visions for the country that you would have people who would be president or senate leader who would be would put patriotism Amen were able to install four extremely conservative justices to the Supreme Court that is the situation in our country right now that one party using a bunch of hand between the two presidents lost the popular vote and the Republican Senate leader who represents the population of Kentucky those those three of you know profit making your lining their pockets and that people would just would naturally abide by some set of good behavior and we now know that courtesy that we hang on to these outdated anachronistic archaic norms that were do not do anything about it it is extremely unlikely the Democrats will ever win sixty votes in the Senate that we will ever be able to pass any kind of progressive majority says that nothing can get passed passed the Senate without sixty votes so that is going to benefit the party that represents Moore states especially more sparsely populated states we continue to see popular vote losers become the President United States and we continue for a generation to have a supreme court or no Democratic president like obviously we are biased we we are progressives we want progressive policies to be the law in this country that's all true but being heard like they could because of all these other rules and institutions and because by the way I mean the thing that's really driving this is that as the change the rules so that people that the actual majority of Americans get to have a say in their government because I can tell you that we'll be deeply damaging written a time in which we were thirteen colonies and not a words country of three hundred seven million Americans or we rural areas and so the states that comprise those rural areas are having more power in their politicians that they're electing having more power in Washington and if this continues this way we general thrust of American history has been towards reforms constitutional amendments and laws to give more people more of a voice in this country that we into American democracy as flawed as it has been in history but as we know it is if generations of progressive majority are ruled by a conservative minority because of how constructed because of the electoral college because of filibustered how the Senate is done and that that is dangerous in the argument shouldn't it is because the Republicans had a choice after they lost the two thousand eight election they could develop a set of policies that were broadly appealing or they could change that the parties have sorted themselves over the last couple of decades means that Democrats are increasingly living in densely populated urban areas and Republicans are living in sparsely populated and and and thus the voters that elected that Democratic president ever have a say in who their Supreme Court justices. It's not great Dan no it's not great then fine but that's not what's happening right now you know it's exact opposite so the question is do voters care about these reforms every reform and law or at least the general sweep of them has been towards the general direction of giving more people more of a voice and I think the rules to diminish the voices of the people who wanted progressive policies and so they just instead of trying to win the game that changed the rules and I think large swath of the in if not how do we make them care they probably don't care at least with the same level of passion that we apparently care about it run and the reason we raise this I think is because we have a certain perspective which is we all sat in that White House and tried to figure out how we take the schism apathy people turn away from the political system is gridlock in Washington the fact that Washington never seem to get anything done this was true I think the reason that you were just nagging cory booker and we have raised this a bunch of times and I talked about it and Tommy Tacos with right I think we have to take a step back and look at this through just a non-partisan Lens which is what is better for them and not to mention you know. amendments of the Constitution that protected voting rights that gave citizenship to everyone that gave women suffrage the gave African American suffrage and equal rights right they just want action from Washington they wanna see that the people they're electing are actually solving their problems and my concern is if a if a Democrat gets elected wick and large swath democratic elected officials in the Senate and in particular are completely numb to what is happening in this country and that is deeply dangerous yeah and look V in this country are represented adequately and those people are Republicans but were cut because Republicans have policies that more people like ever seems to get done pundits treat that like people are upset that everyone's yelling each other and there's no bipartisanship I think people care even less about bipartisanship than they do that will deepen people's cynicism and lead to more Republican governance and more people like trump more demagogues more populous like our job in this election the Democrats argue that we have to keep in mind you're absolutely right it's not about giving one party advantage over the other if we have a system where the majority of the heartbe what is best for Democrats Republicans it is what is the majority warrant and that it is for the Democrats and Republicans or whatever other parties may come to exist one day that to argue for what there's one point where we didn't have people directly elect the president they they you know and so the electors in the electoral college elected the president then we changed that so p we'll have a choice to of people can vote directly for the president we used to have a situation where people can directly vote for senators right until like and things that Barack Obama ran on innocent jury of Americans voted for in turn that into actual policy how do you deliver on his campaign promises and I think this discussion around a new ambitious Elizabeth Warren policy ideas are I think what makes her even more fit to lead her embrace of these democratic reforms and she's been a leader in the field and embracing about on the campaign trail to me like that's even more important than your policy agenda for the reason that you said everyone's policy agenda is is pretty progressive there's different join to to succeed where others have failed how are you gonNa take these promises and turn them into policy and I think voters care probably about that larger question this would be easier if you could get reduce the influence of special interests in Congress by passing that bill and smart like that is a theory of change right with warrants answer was not Wall Street reform it was not her childcare policy or Medicare for all it was her anti-corruption legislation argument was that everything else in twenty twenty and it turns out that all of the big promises they made on the campaign trail were just promises because they don't have an actual plan to get them past I and if a Democrat wins is to prove then a Democratic president and Democratic Congress and Democrats in general can actually bring about the change that they Aubrac Obama started his race in two thousand seven we sought threat his presidency we have seen recently we saw it in twenty sixteen like people are angry that nothing these her Buddha judge has embraced a lot of them as well we've heard Jay inslee better a rourke like some of these people are really embracing and the Filibuster Electoral College which unit Supreme Court is all a proxy for a more important questions what is your theory of change how were you very well thought out theory of how you go about passing your agenda and I think that is the standard of the Democratic voters whether they're in Iowa or New Hampshire or any of the other states that these these reforms and that to me is is a really good sign in and I think more candidates well like I think a lot of them Comma Harris said she was interested in abolishing the election. Aw is something that voters do care about and look and I was saying this to cory booker right like what's driving anger disgust with politics interested in that larger question more so than the sort of the details of how you get there but y are you going to be different why are you going to be able to enact change that others failed and I think that Royal College as well which was great so I think a lot more of them will be catching onto this what was most interesting about Elizabeth Horns most interesting answer of this entire campaign has been when college ending private insurance paying reparations in the next I don't know why those last two things are are part of this discussion that that tells you something right there Dan you want to take that one something done is incredibly important here yeah and and look I think a lot of voters either don't know about these reforms don't think about them that much discordant to watch dem's worn apocalyptic terms that trump's disregarding sacred norms and destroying the Republican one breath while calling for court packing abolishing the which is as dumb as you might imagine headline and NPR Democratic candidates embrace the risk of radical ideas They got you know not proposing stealing any supreme court's proposing passing laws to be signed by presidents passing constitutional amendments to be ratified by state legislatures lay to move large portions of the population to Medicare like like it is like you have to it is not as simple as going down the hall to talk to Mitch McConnell or this summer a little more moderate than others but generally they're all moving in the right direction the differences what your theory for how you're going to get that passed and that's why like you know people talk about how than all of us would benefit from a lot more polling on these issues and hopefully that will happen over the course of of this race let's talk a little bit about the media reaction to this his daily newsletter is is smart so yeah no I love it so I just I just want to like not tell people like like I have disregarded every norm every bit of their constitutional duty to protect trump to hoard power to benefit billionaires and Wall Street exit this idea is so fucking stupid it hurts my brain the argument is basically is that the Democrats are responding to unconstitutional more people can have access to affordable quality healthcare is bananas it is this this desire this like fucking tractor beam of she was asked what bill she would do I write because that theoretically you have the most political capital in media after you're inaugurated the first bill you take up is whole about the filibuster there was a narrow plurality that wanted to get rid of the Filibuster I'm sure no one or two most people don't know what the fuck the filibuster is so I think the field anti-democratic authoritarian moves right like calling the press the enemy of the people you know trying to Cetera and all Democrats wanted to do is fix the problems that this period in American history has revealed in the US political system when you pull them people have been in favour majorities have been in favor of doing away with the electoral college since the late eighties according to polls by look this up but I saw like only one asinine conventional wisdom pulling people into a both sides argument when they're not two sizes argument there is one side there's the right side is the fact that the Republicans power-grabs from the Republicans by using constitutional processes processes to ensure that more people's voices are heard to who they're undertaking the one you have the most likelihood to succeed on right so there that is like prioritization is a really important question it's one that we've all been asking people in the twenty twenty interviews we've done and numbers at mar-a-lago pitch you on policy right like every every norm he is breaking is about consolidating power is about less democracy you know and so it's like clear and national emergency say to pass a bunch of legislation we're not proposing that it's wild the whole conversations while it that's after no actual theory of how to get it done with an understanding of the moment we're in and who the opposition is because you've got to understand that in this world with this Republican vehemently disagree with this tweet as you'll hear in a second but he's not the cause of all the problems American Journal himself I just want us to right and also every norm that Donald trump has broken including possibly some laws has been about a anti majoritarian thirty bolstered by a propaganda Fox News funded by billionaires like the coke that it is a fucking war to keep the lights on let alone to transform the economy into a green economy or as part of an influence peddling scam through trump's privately held club like just completely under the bed is like Texas who Oh selling access and influence to your White House by you know letting foreign leaders stay in your hotels and pocketing the money and and Mar- having the crazy idea to make it so that the person who gets the most votes wins the election like what the fuck are we talking about like the but then the democratic response to that is to move more people onto medicare extreme radical seem hashtag so the question is is there is there any political risk here for Democrats potentially trump clearly sent some sort of opportunity when he tweeted the following this week quote book scandal and we're too busy having a national conversation about the George Conway and John McCain and everything else sex trafficking ring in Florida that snared Bob Kraft is a moral AGA member selling access to Chinese officials the first constitutional amendments which will be also you know pretty hard to pretty hard to pass but we're just asking about them we're not saying like let's elect our president and then had that President pisses actually you've got to win at the ballot box I mean he didn't actually win the majority of the people at the ballot box governor of the D. C. Green Room Ed Rendell in that piece saying Democrats will lose to trump they embrace these reforms and here's James Home in of the Washington Post quote we're GONNA come to should push them on that that's just what you GonNa do it's how are you going to get it done because you can have the best policy agenda in the world he could be the exact thing I want to know you're talking about selling access I think I would just like to note a story that should be the biggest story to America which is that the woman running the the Democrats are getting very in quotation marks strange they now want to change the voting age to sixteen abolish the electoral college and increased significantly the number of supreme court just because any election involving an incumbent is a contest between frustration with the status quo in fear of change and trump was able to win the on here before the twitter hoards go after James Tobin he's he's a pretty good he's a good reporter there's a complete an and he's breaking the norms like you said we're just asking a pass some loss right like if we can't pass them we can't pass them or we're trying to you mean right I think there's been some it's early in the campaign but you don't want people are like yeah let's open the door to court packing or let's open the door to filibuster what do you think Dan good idea the electoral college is fucking stupid it is a stupid idea it is an old idea it makes absolutely zero sense actually talk much about eliminating the Electoral College We mentioned that Elizabeth Warren called for this during her town hall this week it's something Pete Buddha judge has been talking about for quite a while having more people in for drinks or playing golf with Kevin McCarthy era someone it is like you have to have a theory and voter should push people on that because a someone who can get hiring ziprecruiter definitely believes in getting proactive their powerful matching technology doesn't just wait for candidates to find your job scans millions of resumes and job seekers profiles to actively you've been sleeping through the last many years of Republican politics so before we move on we've talked at length about filibuster and court reform on this pod before but we haven't live in is is such an outdated idea it is it should be eliminated and the fears about like the changes that would rot are also stupid that's neither here nor there how do we avoid that trap Dan I it's not avoidable like yes there is political risk there's political risking getting out of bed in the morning and it's the action by telling people that their frustration with the status quo exceeded their fear of trump is president and now he's going to try to do the reverse with Democrats but that doesn't we also we're GonNa do it you have to be specific about it's because that makes it harder for trump in the Republicans that demagogy but ultimately what he wants to do is scare the public for Keeping Electoral College and keeping this report and trump and the Republicans are not going to attack you every day for court packing and eliminating Electoral College then you're insane and then you get to put in the same bucket under radical power-grabs taking power away from the insurance industry so that the it's it is so common sense that it's stunning and telling that we actually haven't done this a long time ago so the big argue the idea that we are exists in a system where a minority of Americans can elect the president because of what they happened the idea that probably makes a lot of sense to people by having a larger supreme court where some numbers the numbers have to be selected on a bipartisan basis. Right so like I I talked about it in his CNN townhall a couple of weeks before Kamla Harris told Jimmy Kimmel should be open to the discussion this week better rourke said quote there's a lot of wisdom in the idea us into two thousand eighteen immigration or Medicare for all whatever it is is that trump is going to lie about your position so if you think you can be question is how do you manage them and I do think it's important that if Democrats are gonNA propose these reforms that they are specific about what the awesome like so let's say what that means like when we add people digit John he he didn't he he didn't outline what a specific proposal and quarterbacking was but he floated you mustn't change what the founders intended and look we have already talked about this just on this pod right like the founders also set up a system where people couldn't you know directly elect well there's a couple of arguments against doing this right the first argument is this is what the founders intended the founders in their brilliance You think about it a little more if you knew that your vote counted towards a national popular vote as opposed to thinking well California always goes to Democrats so what does my vote matter act that you think it's a good idea that the majority of Americans should be able to pick the president and there are densely populated areas and this goes for both sides as well if you're a Republican in California do you really think about going to the polls to elect the president like might a coalition that adds up to two hundred seventy electoral votes in different states presidential candidates might go to Mississippi and campaign there and talk to those voters and give those voters voice awesome that we have presidential candidates don't go there because they know it's going to go to the Republican and if it was about stitching together a national coalition and not Florida Colorado say in the last month or so of the show eight or two thousand twelve election all the times all the time participates in our democracy that's number one so this the other big argument against this okay well if that happens then a narrow set of states and the idea that they would only go to densely populated areas in that and we people only go to mostly densely populated areas in the thoughts on this but you and I of we've done a lot of traveling during presidential campaigns yeah how many times did you think we went to Ohio presidential candidates will only compete in densely populated areas in the cities right like the all the election will take place in Los Angeles and New York City aac Atlanta Jackson Mississippi or places like that the candidates never go to they might go to now because that vote right now a vote a vote in Georgia we're up in Massachusetts and then I lived in DC and then I lived in Chicago and now I live in Los Angeles right like I have never lived in a place where my vote the president where I thought that my vote for president would really make much of a difference because I lived in deep blue states all the time think of think of what would be on everyone's mind about voting Atlanta she did not she organized a lot of people in rural areas do you think Andrew Gillum spent all his time in the population centers in Florida he did not right like these these progressive in Mississippi because Mississippi is a state with a very high percentage of African Americans who live in that state but because the state is a Republican because of this it campaign more places not fewer places and frankly it seems to be the reason that Elizabeth Warren wanted to have that town hall in Mississippi and break that news the city's better aurore campaign Texas do you think he spent all his time in Austin Dallas Houston and San Antonio he did not do you think Stacy Abrahams spent all of her time in at least before this upcoming election in Mississippi is worth almost nothing because you already know how they outcome is going to be but if you could get some number of votes out of those states he would go to the states never been how are we going to Los Angeles in the last month just to raise money yeah but the late to raise money tonight oh there's never no no campaign candidates were running in some of these very red states in two thousand eighteen they actually went around those states try to assemble a coalition beyond just the population centers. I mean the the other way to think about this knowing that your vote could add to a national popular vote tally that would then directly elect the president had states think of the strategies that would the and in Chicago and places like that and no one else will have a voice what what do you say to that argument well John Estates now you go to the largest media market you go to where there are voters this is not a problem that you're not creating a problem and you're not fixing the problem it is you're simply changing the so fucking often you you know exactly where what what hotel you're going to stay in like we want all the time how many times did we go to Idaho judge obviously This is in the constitution so there is a constitutional amendment constitutional amendments are extraordinarily difficult to pass because you need two thirds majorities range on behalf of the presidential campaigns where they would go the different coalitions they would try to assemble the different states they would try to go to and also the idea that you you you can't just Campaign just from the perspective of a campaign how it spends its money how it spends his time is right now a Republican candidate has zero incentive to narrow the margin in California a Democrat you need state legislatures to ratify right but there's another way to do this it is something called the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact this is how it works individual states change their own laws so that they award their electoral votes to the winner of the national popular vote and the Compact doesn't take effect until states representing two hundred seventy electoral votes opt in and pass these laws once they do the winner of the National Popular Vote Would Be Gary One last dad here ninety four percent of the twenty sixteen presidential campaign events were in twelve states twenty four states plus the district tree how candidates would spend their time can't suspend their money what would increase voter participation this country all of the arguments push towards eliminating the electoral college just there is actually not really other than clinging to this idea of thirteen separate colonies there isn't there really is not illegitimate electoral college just from a pure what is good for the converters you just you go to you go visit with some rich people you get their money and then you You do a shell like like pod save America if you're in he'd a pool of two hundred seventy electoral votes from the states that are part of the Compact this week Colorado just passed the law to make themselves part of the COMP act which brings the total electoral votes right now in the Compact to one hundred and eighty one new Mexico Delaware Nevada Maine in Oregon could all be next can his zero incentive to narrow the margin in Texas or Louisiana or any of those things like that so now even make so much sense in a pivotal election for well it brings it to two hundred six electoral votes which is just sixty four votes short of ending the Electoral College. This is actually something that could pass all begin to campaign and spend money and California's if you can just narrow that margin by five points it would be that's millions of votes they're available to you right if Columbia got zero campaign visits in two thousand sixteen twenty four states I think we settled let's get rid of that so the question is what do we have to do to eliminate the electoral call you narrow the margin in Texas for a Democrat from nine even if you lose the state you narrow from I think the seven or nine at Hilary lost two to three that's millions of votes into your tally it so they have democratic governors who've been on record supporting this we won democratic majorities in some of these states in two thousand eighteen and so of these states passed the Compact have more people a voice in our democracy that's what we're saying America's brought to you by Blue Apron Blue Apron looking to switch up your cooking routine Tommy no because I use Blue Apron John Spring into delicious with help from Blue Apron Oh God your secret too easy meal planning make healthy habits delicious this spring by learning to cook at Home Blue Apron makes it easy to choose from a variety of recipes including vegetarian meals and with its new. Ww Freestyle Menu that stands for weight watchers we always knew that they have an entire menu of wholesome meals offered in partnership with ww which is Rico becoming states and sometimes when we say this we leads to some confusion of what our actual position is on this which is that DC should become a without a constitutional amendment pretty excited we now we need to get some of those solidly Red States to do the same thing it fits with our larger theme here more democracy people get to choose if people get if people want to choose that they become a state great if they don't want to that's okay to just should pick its bath and then the then the US government should do that DC has indicated at once statehood should have statehood it should become a state again date that should be the first one of the first things that New Democratic President Democratic majority does but Puerto Rico should decide its own future if it wants to become a state Congress should do that who wants everyone please something we want to Change Electoral College more people will be here to do parts of America it's like people were already campaigning. Kitchen shifts blue Apron's test kitchen uses unique specialty ingredients to bring chef quality recipes to your dinner table they're Schefters recipes including Mazen specialty sauces and premium let's hear some of the big states and some of their and some of the red states I think those last sixty four votes will be will be pretty difficult but who knows who knows can you want ingredient blends that would otherwise be difficult expensive time consuming source to make John If if the test pilots in NASA had the right stuff would you say the test I prefer Rubella Blue Apron has exposed us to delicious recipes we wouldn't have thought to try with Blue Apron the hard parts are done cooking burden anymore in fact APPs ablaze and have the right stuffing that's horrible the tests kitchens whole goal is to make dinner more accessible exciting delicious than ever check out this month spring do one addendum to our discussion that I think it just I don't want there to be confusion because in the beginning you mentioned the thanks for talking about including DC and Puerto I believe answer I prefer regula lease play this on pate world world has one of your that to the right stuffing cook pots of America's brought to you by the New Yorker The New Yorker represents the best writing in America it also includes it humor cartoons got it all the New Yorker rides beautifully on subjects that readers may not have previously put much thought into but end up finding themselves fascinated and delighted by sometimes it. It's actually fun to learn new kitchen Scott with you actually have time to cook a delicious wholesome meal instead of relying on Tak- Lebron's menus carefully designed and tested by tests paper jams faultlines and Stink Bugs Stinky Bugs in New Yorker has great writers like Ronan Farrow Right he's been writing about heirloom beans for months uh-huh and your very own Pulitzer Prize go to New Yorker Dot com slash crooked listeners say fifty percent when they enter the code crooked all right let's talk about the investigation of the President I don't know if you've noticed Dan but trump has been acting up lately he's a little unwell he continued his feud with the see Senator John McCain complaining he didn't receive a thank you for giving him the kind of funeral he wanted it just I don't I don't even you know what where to begin on that one He lashed out at White House senior advisor Kellyanne Conway's husband George Anne attacked Robert Muller himself saying quote and I know that he's become independent they should do that they want another option they should just sometimes we hear from people who think were using the Puerto People Puerto Rico as a political pawn here and we're in we're not we think Puerto Rico thing that is most synapses of his very adult brain but like we are all talking about compelling storytelling both online and in print the New Yorker covers a full range of topics including politics news international climate change the Environment Popular Culture Arts Fiction Food I don't know what he wanted for best tote bag tweets best tweets Ronan Farrow get twelve weeks for just six dollars plus the New York gross that he attacks McCain I don't give two shits about the Conway's either way but let's move on and talk about the most important thing which is the fact that public upon completion Lindsey Graham and blocked a similar resolution in the Senate he actually asked to amend it to include the appointment of special counsel to look into Hillary's emails eating tens of thousands of words on topics like the world diminishing supply of sand and heirloom beans heirloom being other topics you never know you'd find fascinating shit you not but then trump has said quote and he said this is again yesterday let it come out let the people see it that's up to the attorney general so what do you think p and mushroom Roman bring p. and mushroom Rahman to start making delicious brag worthy meals at home like that joke without the hassle try blue apron check out this week's menu and get sixty dollars off visit blue apron dot com slash crooked that's blue apron dot com slash rugged one more time blue apron is a better way flicked and I know that his best friend is COMI WHO's a bad cop he also complained that even though he had one of the greatest elections of all time in the history of this country now muller so it is hard to find because so the House voted last week four hundred twenty two nothing on a resolution demanding that Muller's work be made Taylor and others about how it could become a public one day regardless of what attorney general bar sides but trump also swore up and down back home delivery of the print edition each week unlimited access to New York Dot Com ten to fifteen exclusive only stories every day exclusive gay twelve weeks New Yorker for just six dollars plus the exclusive tower weight watchers. There you go hey hey guys would you like to hear a Brexit themed salad joke that allies and I came up with a ready to choice hey here's the question remains right well so we get a preview of how Republicans are likely to spend this report from the Associated Press which ran a story this week that said the following quote trump and his allies do not seem like the musings of someone who is feeling very centered and comfortable in their personal situation Yeah it's not great this is and I'm reading this book by a guy named Patrick Radin Keith who's in New Yorker staff writer it's like one of the best books I've ever I enjoy his writing very much he's very good within the magazine because it's a place where best writing is written real stickler over here beyond publishing the best writers in the world in New York are holds people in power accountable rigorous into some sort of Pretzel logic that will allow them to justify that vote and justify defending the trump justice department for not releasing the report out the Conway's and their marriage and what it means that trump did this in this feud with John McCain and my personal on both of those stories included the John McCain story as I do not it's eight go to jail actually good for trump imagine the editorial meeting around the table Chris where they're like wow we've written so many that he would be more than happy to testify or be interviewed by Muller and he did not do those things and so there is zero connection between what he says the president is involved in multiple criminal enterprises in a massive amount of corruption and like somewhere in there there is a message in a strategy it's just pretty fucking hard to find and what he does and there is no question that all of those Republican House members who voted that way will find a way to twist themselves in gets to write the report when no one voted for him Dan to these seem like the drainage musings of an innocent man they certainly like the co like I know we never wanNA scribe strategy to the things trump is doing because his strategy is to watch Fox News and then immediately say or tweet twenty twenty race according to current and former White House officials at presidential confidence who spoke on condition of anonymity Dan is being investigated for multiple felonies and watching some of your clothes you know I don't I don't quite know what Democrats do better to accept you know bang their heads against the wall and scream but it does seem pretty wild this bar so high now where if you know Robert Muller doesn't come out and say this man must be impeached or if he doesn't indict done junior or give a shit we all knew a long time ago trump castle that is part of his brand he is he is advertised as as whole for years we don't have to talk about it anymore it's and you can imagine all those analysis pieces getting getting written you can mallet imagine cable news running crazy with this and produce what he insisted all along no clear evidence of a conspiracy between Russia and it's twenty sixteen campaign and trump and his adviser considering how to weaponize those possible findings for the jared Kushner or anyone else then they'll say or if there's not like you know as we've always talked about the the recording of the phone call between describe that with zero scrutiny but I will say I expected the media the mainstream media released much of the media has set the spin without any level of scrutiny to that spin right the fact that the president is having a fucking meltdown over the last few days suggests that maybe he's not so stories about why the criminal investigation into the president is bad for the president what if we wrote a story about how it's good for the president that is like then back to Ronin who didn't win the Pulitzer Eighteen Pulitzer does that Pulitzer you didn't say it in different way and then edited out no you didn't say it like a like a person who does Automation Yorker but back Ronin who did win the Pulitzer Prize in two thousand eighteen pooled exit Pulitzer no leave it in Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin where they say hey let's collude then somehow this whole thing is going to be this big disappointment a problem for Democrats a win for Donald Trump we're starting to see Muller's investigation is something potentially very different political opportunity with Robert Muller's findings expected any day the president has grown increasingly confident the report will autocell winner by declaring his innocence than they would not be undermining the legitimacy of said report so it's like it's an insane spin and it sort of embarrassing to me that given the information we already know about the president's criminality his advisors proven criminality on finit did this report will be good for him and the fact that his allies we're always in Congress and his wholly owned propagated hey trump is getting outta here is if we dot positive America we the American public do the hard work of winning elections just like we did in twenty a it's like a sports radio hot take that Burns it's so stupid it is now there's no world in which the president also shady journalism because you're just transcribing gene we knew Bob Muller wasn't GonNa Save Democrats from not getting control the house We we have to know that Bob Muller is not the problem we have to be already know exactly what's going to happen already know who's going to say what I know who's going to write what I can read the fucking chirons on TV I know what my reaction is going to be already know what I'm going to tweet over like people will start pre drafting trump's second inaugural let's get that out let everyone needs to focus on the fact that Bob Muller Ain't gonNA solve our fucking problem the only going on there just trump really want people to see the Miller report and when will we see them all the report I don't know whether we'll see it or not you know we've had long hair sage with marcy we because the chatter is quite high in Washington that jeter is Ford is coming anytime soon my afternoon is free basically after one o'clock today I am ready for come up with a host of indictments and potentially save us all John I have free I knew this was a possibility and all the other corruption that's going on in the administration how that can be good for him I don't know I'd like pre angry about this like wandered in from a fucking like Wealth Wolf Blitzer you didn't say it Weird Pulitzer Prize does it weird that word with her out shitting all over Mahler in his report suggests that maybe they're not so confident this is a good thing because if they thought this thing was going to a be a political winner in B B go through this ritual process where the press decided that this is a winner for trump that Democrats overplay their oh my God what are Democrats going to do like it's a Senate vote on the House Democrats anti-corruption Pro Voting Rights Bill H R one our friend eleven of indivisible responded saying hey or as I say I guess worry about everything panic about nothing yes we should be worried I think in both these pieces there there there's sort of two separate the ballot box so let's get this behind are focusing on that Dan there's some good news by saying this right now you've ensured that before this podcast comes out by Muller Emergency Pods Bonus pods winning of things I am I am prepared for the rage that will come when this report is not because Lyon average of nine points over perform their usual margin but in a special election since the mid terms the ones we've had recently which I haven't even in the other piece Washington Post reporter Philip Bump noted that in special elections before two thousand eighteen Democrats over performed so what he believes is the demobilization of the resistance since the mid terms he said that there wasn't a mass mobilization around the emergency declaration from trump there wasn't a mass mobilization there were a pair of somewhat concerning stories about democratic enthusiasm heading into the next election that ran this week The I was Mad Iglesias at Vox who wrote about so let's get this thing out of the way get this fucking report over with let's turn it in Bob Mueller if you got a sense of people to jail jail if you're not let's get the report out let's long term process concerns about how our government functions but the actual result of it is not something that is HAP- immediate or real or I noticed them all to tell you the truth but there've been there've been a bunch and Republicans have over performed by one point and have already picked up four seats held by Democrat things but they are related around the enthusiasm question I think it is unfair to talk about the vox piece for a sec to expect Democrats to what were you and I are going to text about I know what I'm the yellow podcast it's even if not you're going and it's GonNa be really fucking annoying but but it is same here so like I don't like I'm very cognizant and receptive to Israel response to this but the president of the Senate and the people who could participate in democracy where white male landowners rights like the founders intentions have gone a little bit of stray on have a same level of civil disobedience response we had to taking healthcare away from people or banning all Muslims from coming in this country to the moving around it's so I overall question how much should Democrats be worried about complacency heading into two thousand twenty as we on the federal dollars for small portions of offense that will be built like it's not the same thing right right I don't think you can the emergency declaration has as for Democrats and trump the election and at the end of the episode she puts on her shades just walks out a walks for walks out of Capitol Hill walks down to the White House takes a seat it that's the end roll the credits and she you only governed in the sunglasses all right it's a good segue what we really need to do in twenty twenty can for perp Walk Donald Trump out of the way cops with Bob Muller and he's got his hands raised high victory that's that's what people think it's going to there is plenty of activism around both of those issues but as we did agree that we have got to build political engagement now in advance of twenty twenty that we can't wait till twenty twenty getting people the building of the wall itself is mobilized around but this is a very small piece of it and is a very esoteric sort of dumb argument everyone knows that everyone sort of playing a part of fake the only thing the press would accept would be just one page that just says guilty guilty and then and then permanently donald trump out of the White House it'd be like one of those huge busts were they also take pants down and Nancy Pelosi just moves into the office anything short anything short of Dante plsy moving stuff in the office by five today is a massive we do have to assume that Republican enthusiasm is going to be the through the fucking roof and we have to remember that Republican enthusiasm in two thousand ten swept them to one of the largest at least in terms of seat pickup elections ever and then they got their asked twenty twelve and so I think we have to be cognizant and aware of the fact that beating an incumbent president is very hard yeah the history of it is not great it usually requires everything go your way and that's even true when the president the incumbent president you're trying to be much attention to the race us included all the time reading about twenty twenty and the sniping the early sniping among Democrats about the you can put aside those problems right you know we're put aside the divisions so I have lots of concerns and and it's it's quite annoying it's annoying and we'll have to see whether it's impactful the the length of the Democratic Party can sort of heard us or at least sap our enthusiasm about beating trump is a an extended fight not really paying close attention yet but a lot of democratic activists and and writers and journalists and people on twitter are already playing way too each other about who were nominating twenty twenty and I you know look I think it is true that most Democrats in the country right now most Democrats what is the vast vast majority of voters probably have warm feelings towards all the candidates they most of them don't know all the candidates they've heard the primary does not concern me on its face obviously the tenor does right if we get into this world where it's either my person or no one that field already is causing me a little concern I have to say over over the last couple of weeks and you know I'm a huge fan as you know of saying twitter it into the public and my worry is that when this my new worry here is that worry about everything panic about nothing is that when this race gets he it up You know there will be there will be just a lot of angst in this party and I will say this I it's it's great that it's not coming from the candidates and camp pains themselves right now you know they are they are being good to each other they're being respectful of each other they are acting exactly how they should but a lot of other people are not it's not real life so it's not causing great concern yet but I also know that reporters now report off twitter and then they have they create media narratives and the media narratives eventually bleed Ernie's name and Biden's name and then probably after those two with Warren but they don't know a lot of the other candidates that well yet and you know they liked them all and the in a larger presidential field you actually need more enthusi- lake you need more people to come out because they're like small increases enthusiasm here and there are minimized by the fact that it's happening in a larger pool of voter so this is a it's going to be hard and we have to be aware of that yeah and look in the other thing the third party candidates sit out because they're pissed about the outcome the tanner was what matters right we can the F. particularly when people are focused on winning you can put these is an incompetent cloud who is treating the presidency of some sort of pretrial diversion program to avoid going to jail like it like this going to be challenging we are going to have to do everything right Dan that's GonNa that's GonNa be that state like we we need every voter there is no work like we cannot afford a single Democrat someone who voted for someone and Democratic primary to then vote for it do two things one what are we doing to build up the infrastructure of the Democratic Party and the larger progressive world to help that nominee once we have that nominee and second what are we doing to prevent trump from strengthening while we have this fight we are all going to have to get on board and people have to the question for me is our primary focus of out and everyone's getting involved and and can the candidates support and donating that candidate or making texting for that candidate making calls for that candidate what are we doing we writ large large Progressive Universe to other work of beating trump on hold right and I think yeah so what do we do about all this I think we have to remember to focus on Donald Trump on what he's doing keeping the house you know I was talking to some of the newly elected members of the house and you know we're facing sort of the end of the and we're going to talk about fundraising in the second because that's you know that unifies us that unified during two thousand eighteen right we can't completely ignored trump here I also think we have to focus on down ballot races right like we have to focus on the and those are the questions I think a lot we will spend time talking about the DNC will spend time talking about Democrats in Congress and others will spend time talking about which is as primary place itself out we can't put all the eighteen because the focus was on the house and it is harder to do so now in twenty twenty with everyone focused on the presidential election so I would tell everyone you know if you go to the Cook Political report they have sixteen are already set to target a bunch of the most vulnerable Democrats who just one in two thousand eighteen in those democrats need to raise money and it was easier for them to raise money in two thousand eight and we'll run really good candidates and spend a lot of money in that district and you know it is going to be easy keeping the house is not going to be easy winning the Senate back and we need in house seats held by Democrats that they haven't tossup that they will be tossup seats in a twenty twenty and I would think about giving some of those candidates some money especially on it that's going to be it's going to be huge to to try to take the Senate back that's going to be a big big goal in two thousand eighteen I think by the way we also have to focus on but we're facing the end of the fundraising quarter at the end of March and the N. R. C. C. which is the Republican Committee that deals with House elections on the party is a whole making sure we build a progressive majority in twenty twenty and that goes beyond the presidency. Yes all those things play together right the if you're these Democrats in these tossup seats many of which are in you know they quote Unquote Swing States if they have money to run good campaigns that's going to be you know in advance of the end of the March deadline because that's when the Republicans will think okay who's got a lot of money on the democratic side who doesn't and the people who don't maybe we'll target them it's GonNa take what was the popular vote margin eighteen was at seven points I think so yeah so it is extremely unlikely that Absence Carolina if they have money to run real races in and really organized state starting now than that will benefit the presidential if the presidential candidate somebody seats and ensure that if we have a Democratic president we have a Democratic Senate and House to actually do the things we care about all right let's talk about fundraising in the president it's a pretty stunning statement about how fundraising campaigns has radically changed in the last few their strategies to build up their list and so you're sort of starting from scratch and so it's going to be very hard to come anywhere close to what some of these other candidates right so you're going to be this tougher plainfield already so it's going to take even more work even more organizing even more focus than smart strategy to hold on original fundraising these days a lot of people hear these numbers and I think there's not a lot of context for what it means how much it matters why should we give a shit about this make sure and and that's to say nothing of the State Legislatures and governors mansions that we could flip in two thousand twenty as well or the ones that we need to hold onto think it's really important for everyone to focus on if their campaigns so just to step back from it like is Biden right to be worried about raising money online why online money treated as more valuable than NFL it the presidential election right if whoever our democratic nominee is to take over the Democratic nominee is in Arizona or Iowa North Sean how much it really matters the Wall Street Journal reported this week that former vice president Joe Biden has told at least a half dozen supporters that he will be running for president and has asked for their help to kick start his fund rich people and that's I think that's great progress for the country Biden is right to be worried in the sense that it takes you have to have the list you have to have been working on this for a long time racing according to the journal Biden could have an exploratory committee set up some time after Easter which is April twenty first but he's also reportedly concerned about making a big fundraising state he does he can not raise money he does he's worried he cannot raise money from people who are giving five ten twenty seven forty eight dollars whatever the average for mint right out of the gate and he told supporters he's worried he won't be able to report the same kind of online donor numbers the people like Bernie Sanders and Baroque did they kicked is strong and well-funded that will benefit down ballot because there is like we have to be aware of how hard it is going to be to hold on to somebody's house seats and how much worse candidate's chances are candidates political strength does it tell us anything well President Jeb Bush would tell you has the most money wins you've built up a donor base and he has not run a campaigned that's had the ability to do that in ever right a measurement of enthusiasm for your candidacy right that people are excited enough about she the large enough people are excited about you that they are going to primary states in primarily Iowa and so in that sense I think there will be some sort of cut off I have no doubt that Biden can ray cross that threshold through whatever means he gets into their campaigns and so I think it's like one early measure for those candidates to say look we have we have pretty widespread support outside our donor lists outside our homes met every Democratic fundraiser has one of the largest rolodexes in the history of democratic politics and he is worried about fundraising because it there are more that you can you can be smarter and succeed with less money but I do think you need to hit a threshold to be able to run credible campaigns in the early cycles because here you have the two-term vice-president states been in democratic politics for decades who I'm sure has is team has not spent the same amount of time and energy and money that Kamala Harris is team in particular spent in the last few years using digital ads to us of at least twenty states so you can get into the debate by hitting that threshold of donors or earning at least one percent in a series of public polls uh-huh campaign but what if anything does the amount you raise and I guess more specifically how many people you've raised it from tell us about it let alone what a bet over Bernie did and how much does money matter obviously we know what matters in the sense that like you need money to hire staff and run ads and do all the he collapsed in the in trump's numbers or some exigent event that were to happen that a Democrat is going to win the popular vote by seven points they have right now our Bernie and then beddoe and then Kamla and it does show and you know they have you know they can show that they have these small dollar donors in candidate is and we're now we're in a world where having a large fundraising email list is seen as more value more important than having a large rolodex he's he's going to be on the debate stage and fucking former senator Mike Gravel is floating a presidential bid view money and that that is important now I think the lesson of the the the joking Jeb Bush references for the person with the most money dates but you're right the beyond that like especially as we get into it's like one of those early indicators as we get deeper into the race it matters less one way though it does matter a lot this time that it hasn't age that a series of poorly conducted media polls where people have very limited name ID because that's a self fulfilling prophecy which is if you don't you you aren't known so you can't get on the there but you have to hit a threshold be able to run a real campaign and blow that then you're just sort of wasting your time everyone else's yeah I mean you know the the leaders on how many donor race is a way to get onstage debate and that's why you know peed Buddha judge recently surpassed the sixty five thousand donors threshold Andrew Young has surpassed the sixty five thousand donor threshold he's a Venture capitalist who believes in universal basic income I don't think we've talked about him much on the pied yet but he surly win and there's lots of changes in how politics are conducted with the adventure the Internet social media the new media landscape that allow it move of the Democratic National Committee to make based on donors because could just very random people sort of game the system to get sixty five thousand donors and suddenly you have all art they do yeah and you have to draw a line somewhere and I think the ability to build a grassroots fundraising base is a better measure of deciding whether people should get on the so for candidates weren't polling well or who who aren't in our polling well just because no one knows who they are because they're just like brand new names to people building this donor but now that everyone's got into chance to hear Pete Buddha judge and see him and he's been able to build this fundraising mason everyone's excited he'll be on the debate stage and please clap I think there's two separate things here right which is if you can raise lots of money from lots of different people it is you know it might have seemed absurd you know two months ago for you to say well the south the mayor of South Bend Indiana whose thirty seven years old is GonNa be on the debate stage kinds of folks on the debate stage I mean sure yes people you have to be able to put together a real campaign to get six thousand dollars spread out over twenty states that's a fucking outstanding level of affection for Joe Biden as Delaware Native and obviously we work very closely with them for a long time I am deeply uncomfortable with the way this conversation is happening in the past the DNC is offering debate invitations to candidates who have at least sixty five thousand donors so long as they also have a minimum of two hundred donors e let me tell you he is he's a character to say the least so like I don't know there was there was some interesting politico piece the other day like is was this the in all fifty states right and that means that they're at least their initial support is has breadth to it right like we don't know how much depth that has but it has breadth there's a lot of different people that are contribute and and for those who don't know Mike reveal is what year was it that he was on the debate stage Dan two thousand and eight two thousand and eight microphones on the debate stage what do you think about the various reports that Biden is considering the selection of an early running mate like Stacey Abrams nations that I have had a chance to meet in in my life I think she is amazing I I have to say to someone who has a long age but if I remember I remember seeing polling in two thousand and eight because people were floating this idea about McCain who was also an older presidential candidate and itself which she could so I think it's a little silly and I don't think it's great for Biden either by the way I think that if you're going to run for president it was a it pulled terribly people I think they don't want to go through election twice it just it if you were to old to do or for whatever reasons unable to do that saves so you can't get no you can't get on the debate sage is sort of not an ideal way to do it so having both measures either or I think makes sense and yeah we might end up with that's just sort of how it is but it's better than just simply using polls which I think is not a great way to do it right last question before we go since this is in the news this morning in the he did not have that success nate and then he was on the ticket two thousand twelve and so he wa- It wasn't his list and he was didn't sixteen and as far as I know terms why would I pick you to do one term now maybe it's a different world than it was you know a decade ago but it seems alarming I think the biggest threat to Biden's candidacy right now is not the lack of in an email list it's not the it's not age it's not his older positions is the verbal diarrhea like I'd be like I'm a star like I got more votes than any Democrat in Georgia's history I should I should run for Senate here or I should run for president he makes his announcement less of a clean shot by having this big national discussion about how weak is advisors think he is and what and I think that's unfair to her and it's just it's it's an unfortunate way for the conversation to take place in its diminishing someone who should not be diminished anyway bullshit detector quite high and it will it will it'll seem gimmicky it's basically putting a flashing sign over your head says week in DC. Abrams is a star she is brilliant she is I I agree with you one of my favorite people in democratic politics and if I were her I would be like I am I am as pro CBS's you can get I want more Stacey Abrams in my politics Cassisi Abramson my life she is what of my most favorite policy you need to go out there and say I'm running for president on my own vote for me don't vote for me because you like that there's a package deal here like it doesn't seem it doesn't I don't the from someone who has as much claim to run for president who's running for President is being slotted into vice presidential slot before she even makes a decision campaign so there are a lot of leaks that's you know we tried very hard to do that in two thousand and eight and so I think it's a it's a wise move okay when absurd measures they can take to address that weakness yet for all we know Joe Biden has already decided against either of these moves and is just going to announce his run for president on his own James but the idea that through like reports about advisors that like they're thinking of like slaughtering her in a ticket I don't know if I were her I wouldn't I wouldn't want that okay I'm either going to run for President or I'm going to run for Senate and if she runs for president she'll be an incredible addition to the field and if she runs for Senate that's great too it should be up to Stacey Abrams of his advisors who are having these conversations in the pages the New York Times instead of within a conference room it is headquarters somewhere and so he is like put all the ideas on the whiteboard we come back we will have Jon Lovitz interview with Congresswoman Loren Underwood just don't show the Whitewater Jonathan Martin tides it it's R- it's really diminishing to Biden it hurts his chances and it makes whatever but now because people can keep their mouths shut this is out there all over the news today so that's a it's a good lesson on keeping it running a tight ship genius hope to get their message across buck now are using lots of basketball words even though they know as much about quote be ball love it does here goes policy geniuses the is because my dad bought a picture of the Basketball Dream Team as little babies and I know that one of them was Michael Jordan one of them was Scotty Pippin and the similarity also to these stories that Biden would commit to running for only one term which is being talked about as a way to deal with with his aide like I I don't I think it's a fine measure is it a perfect measure now there's no perfect measure here it's your anger some people your people who wish stays you aren't who you wish weren't on stage you are back it's a great application downloaded on your phone you put in the Code Pod Save you put in the Code Spencer you put in the Code Spencer is not real five dollars is going to your pocket five dollars is going to I probably was swish or is it swoosh love it positive America's brought to you by the cash APP it's the fastest and easiest way to pay people view so this is the first time we've got a chance to speak with you since you one last year he started you're working congress what's been the biggest surprise so far about the job from a little Sarah vintage store and the lamp now sits on a little end table next to a couch in my home and it's very nice we'll have to take your word for it doing things done and the way that we have to sort of divide our attention I'm on three committees I do education labor and on that committee we actually do healthcare stuff too I think the biggest surprise is honestly the pace of the work you know there's such a reputation of gridlock and dysfunction I feel like we are just moving at a clip positive America's brought to you by policy genius this month March madness will distract millions of Americans from their jobs and families it's all basketball all the time Russian sales agents no hidden fees just the perfect assist from a whole squad of MVP's Swish alleyoop love it what's the Dream Team the Dream Team was a basketball team and the reason I know it well Giaga okay they're very gonzaga in such a climate how can a humble life insurance company like policies our Constitution did not contemplate having a chamber that did not want to be separate and coequal right that's part of the legislature and and so we need to make some changes over there the Planned Parenthood Action Fund helping support women's health all across this country and you know anything else you'd like to add you to but you have to recognize that eighteen can teach US lessons about how to win and twenty but it's unpredictable what's going to happen in two thousand so we have to be even better even smarter even more enthusiastic the and that's why elections are so important and each vote counts but for now I'm excited about the progress we're making in the house so you're the youngest African the woman ever elected to Congress what's an issue where you feel like being a young African American woman in this space that is I was looking for it just doesn't seem like it seems more of like a gimmick than a well thought out move yeah I think that's the the American public's fourteenth Congressional district a health policy expert and the youngest African American woman ever elected to Congress Congresswoman Loren underwood welcome to save America thank you had to be here so good to have before you came in the average age of a member of Congress now around sixty which is the oldest or close to the oldest it's ever been what is something that you find you're bringing that that some of the members are veteran's affairs and home security and then you know there might be a bill on the floor about Yemen or there might be a bill on the floor about you know hr one anti-corruption or whatever and so we're just the bulls were very good during that time the Bulls were very good in that era famously no Paxton Michael Jordan so find the right home insurance auto insurance or Disability Insurance Patrick Ewing quadruple threat which is a basketball term love it just means a basketball term for you can sing dance and act some polls no Kaiser Soza is in a very overrated film agreed positive is doesn't just make life insurance either they also make it easier keeping all these different balls in the air and is getting done I imagine how busy would be there wasn't gridlock right I mean the Senate is completely dysfunctional and you know it got so if you need life insurance make a fast break to policy genius Dot Com and compare quotes in minutes policy genius comparing life insurance is a lot easier than listening to this he waited life insurance online they've assembled dream insurance companies and put them in one place for you to compare once you apply the team of policy genius will handle all the paperwork and red tape they should pay those kids at all I just told you yesterday that I'm finally ready to have people over you had my wife over yeah just because they came over uninvited next to hear that mm-hmm was I think Larry Bird one of them the nine hundred ninety two US Olympic I'm naming him I'm naming him it was the best I'm doing it for a while you know but then can I just paid for lack of cash up lamp lamp or lamp. We're we're we're we'll the lamp is currently store it's not for here all right you're hear what can I do to Ding Dong ditch us she is the Democratic Representative from Illinois's S. GONNA fill my bracket no I've not but can't wait to be destroyed the real gambling of course has to be done by the sexual harassment and assault training members and I sat in that training was inadequate and I was just like God it needs to be better and so started looking at what policies were in place learning from you just by your presence well I'll say that I certainly approach problems differently and during orientation we had a training for the first time they had as district you basically said that's not the questions you're getting but do you feel like this conversation is one that matters inside of your district or people talking about and I sort of felt that may be kept at a distance but it's up to me to build relationships and build bridges and to get it wasn't people talking about the green new deal do you get some questions or skepticism from voters when you're when you're back home I get questions about climate change I get questions about healthcare affordability what are we going to do to lower the price of insulin we get questions about a affording higher education and making college you know time have you found that there are some of your older colleagues that kind of feel bit flummoxed by this this sort of there is a phalanx of chips with committee staffers and that kind of thing had been longstanding accepted practice in this workplace but never fly any other workplace around the country of young people who've come in and they don't seem to really care about the way it used to used to be done do you find that they're surprised caught off or if you're a Democrat or Republican right because there's corruption across the board sometimes and not afraid to call it out not afraid to stand up and say no and not afraid to lead by example was not sworn in yet and submit some amendments to the rules package that we will vote on the first day they were accepted by the rules committee and they pass on our first day in office and and so I think that it takes a millennial woman millennial woman of color to come in and say not okay and find to create a way to get it had won his previous race by twenty points that's right something like that there've been these pieces coming out of Washington coming out of coverage of the presidential cycle covering some of the snow people for individuals because I'm not a threat to my colleague what we are though is going to say that you know we put people first and we're here to serve and it doesn't matter the green new deal about about Medicare for all about this question around Democrats moving to the left now you were asked this about there was a story about this only back in the majority folks have their gavels or they have their little fiefdom and here comes this new crew of freshmen who are now a quarter of the caucus hard some of the old guard members of both parties hundred percent I think that some people threaten they've learned how to thrive in the dysfunction and so now or okay that members cannot use nondisclosure agreements to prevent witnesses or victims from coming forward with information and saying that members of Congress couldn't have sexual relations Donald Trump won in two thousand sixteen and the swing on the Congressional vote was tremendous right the person you defeated by five points Salih price so that people don't aren't having hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt I don't get questions necessarily about like Hashtag renew deal or you know what what kind of label are you I'm a Democrat people know I'm a Democrat and and so it's not framed in that way and so what I encourage my colleagues Knbr quarter of the Congress and nothing can pass if we're not on board and that just immediately is disruptive and so I think that some people were surprised surprise the number of people who are interested in that you're not supposed to take pictures on the floor obviously of the house but this is what we do so you're from a district that have you had to show any older members how to use their phones no but I'm done a few southeast and south is on the floor and you will be in politico that asked a bunch of members from districts that were flipped from trump winning two Democrat taking the seat about whether or not that is hurting you in your to do is to be prepared to have conversations that regular middle class families understand and it's grounded and reality in their lives right there's a lot of aspirational goals and that's great and I think bold ideas are wonderful but I think that we have a tremendous response on these aspirational goals that may not happen for another twenty five or fifty years right that long range planning is important it really is but ability responsibility to the people that elected us to make sure that we engage in two way conversation and if we're having a conversation and debating the people in my community are like literally struggling with twenty five hundred dollars a month for their kids insulin and that's a problem in their day to day life literally struggle wing because they can't have sick leave to take care of their son because their job doesn't offer these concrete issues that may not be the ball old ideas that make headlines but certainly make a real impact on people's lives well it seems like there's this divide right there are those who are saying well sure we need addresses issues right now but we need to set a goal for where we're a aiming towards in the long run and be to pull the debate in the left right that if we're talking about only preserved signed onto it you've talked more about stabilizing the affordable care act how do you feel about this debate over a medicare for all and and do you believe that's the goal we should the affordable care act and Republicans are talking about repealing the affordable care act we're not talking about where we want to get too short so Congressman John Paul has introduced a Medicare for all bill you have not yet that absolutely in two thousand nineteen we should not have tens millions of people in this country that don't have access to healthcare don't have health insurance and so yes People might have supported the broad idea but the way that it was implemented created winners and losers and we went as we think about transforming our healthcare system moving forward it would transform our healthcare system or not and I think that the details matter when it comes to healthcare right we saw with the affordable care act that taming towards so I believe how human right and that's been foundational to my nursing practice I'm a nurse been unearths for ten plus years and I think make sure that we design it in a way where folks come out ahead and one of the concerns that I have from my district is just we're not sure how much it costs those are all very different things and some people wanna buy well I know just based on our healthcare system right each those have different timelines implementation and how we pay for it and so until I get that information I'm not cosigning the bill but I do think it's a great goal and I think that a lot of people are really energized dates where they chose not to expand Medicaid and so we can look at expansion opportunities in a way that is fully consistent with x existing laws but Medicare like plan or do you think that private insurance has a valuable role to play for people that currently have it and like their private insurance. I think that we should be I think there's a lot of people millions of people in this country who felt threatened and not having a stable environment for their healthcare as one that creates a lot of uncertainty and they were looking to their elected officials to say who's GonNa have our back for this basic need healthcare and so I think that the Medicare for all debate certainty that our plans would even be offered through the end of twenty seventeen we'd not have certainty that if we were trying to plan procedure that we even have coverage and so recreating an opportunity to cover more people and right now we have tens of millions of people who don't have healthcare coverage many of whom live in threats are doing questions around impeachment are you worried about democratic overreach whatever that means or do you think that's silly Washington we have

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348 - Dragged Across Concrete feat. Marcus Barnett & Osita Nwanevu (9/9/19

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1:22:37 hr | 2 years ago

348 - Dragged Across Concrete feat. Marcus Barnett & Osita Nwanevu (9/9/19

"The everybody we got a double shot of <hes> interviews for you this week I up is our boy Marcus Burnett <hes> reporting from the UK on what the Hell is going on over there house going all short answer is nobody really knows not even our guest not us not only the ones in charge. Something might happen soon or maybe it won't but we don't know what that thing will be or will not be regardless. Marcus always enjoy to talk to in his clever. mink accident always joy to here and then following him. We've got returning champ evo to talk about the recent intellectual mind warrior events between David French in so Rab Marae at American Catholic University a a debate that will define the future of being an insufferable nerd in this country well into the future he was there. Live covering it I camara cheated by bringing out the power glove. Aba Select before the for the debate on all right so I I stopped is Marcus Barnett. We're going to kick things things off this week talking a bit about <hes> goings on internationally with our friends across the pond question of the day what the Ruddy Eddie Hell is going on in the UK with the bloody brexit medicine and to talk about it. It's our old friend that big girl's Blouse. It's Marcus Barnett back again. AH ARE OFFICIAL CHABOT. UK correspondent at this point yeah. I'd say six markets <hes> less than we saw you is when we were over in your neck of the woods the UK hanging out here and I gotta say you know up until then our European tour or UK tour rather I I gotta say I was a moderate on the England issue but now that I spent some time there. I've been red pilled and Marcus. Yeah we gotta we gotta get rid of England. It's not I mean you see the need to destroy it now right yeah I. I had this to ourselves sort of very plainly really marcus had this sort of naive cosmopolitan attitude where I was like. Oh the English we share a language shared cultural history. They've made so many of the wonderful television in programs I like did they can still go on existing as a country right but no not broken people now. I've seen it close up with my own own is I'm fine with that. As long as the north can break off and we can have people Socialist Republic Manchester Emperor you read my mind and Marcus. Let me put this thank you so here's the north the north part of England will retain. It'll be like it'll be like. Hong Kong retain like certain formal Persia liberties and sort of a semblance of democratic liberties but then like the Midlands and south and all of that just pure one party state state rule. Just pure totalitarianism sounds about right to me. I mean most of the northwest is already one party state Belabor. Every time I get a local election you just got Lib. DEM's or conservatives tibs just screaming about how you know like the Soviet state of Manchester. All you know Rob Liverpool as you know untouchable and free from any democratic accountability with the solar and so forth very soon they will be free of any democratic accountability went once we take over all going on at the moment the accountability the also ever. Okay Marcus like we we were talking to like. We want to talk about like what the fuck is going on with with Johnson with Brexit it and all of these machinations shenanigans and we were trying to prepare ourselves just say okay so. Johnson wants to have a no confidence vote on himself so there's an election before the thirty we just kept tripping ourselves up over it because like I feel like I'm checkmated at every turn and trying to understand what's going on. Do you have any the idea is very very hard to go in on because something new is happening every few minutes. I've just got in front of me now something that happened in the past hour which is the MP's of voted wanted by three hundred eleven to three hundred and two votes to force Dominic Cummings. You know kind of <hes> you know Boris Steve Bannon to release all of his texts emails emails what's up messages and all of the private communications detailing decision to prorogue parliament. That's going to be so much inappropriate. Reverse sex thing that you have to wait dry pollen or did you to show you some messages to people and the proroguing rogin parliament that would be the thing that they literally just. There's like okay. The Queen is in charge now or passes without any parliament. Actually the the the the the probation is a way to pastor legislation very very swiftly and aggressively Clement government did it in I think nineteen nineteen forty eight to put through steel legislation the nationalized the steel industry because they just wanted to basically push it through all processes boring engage in the archaic way to push your policy against trump entrenched opposition so <hes> as best as you can explain it like what has happened since <hes> <hes> a big Big Mad Boris has become pm like what is he wants to. What is he trying to achieve here. I think he recognizes the pulse they the Conservative Party is in a more really perilous state. You know really people to the Labour Party's in a pitiful way <unk> go look and I think what he's trying to do who is trying to you're trying to solve the enthusiasm <unk> insurgent nature if you like the Brexit campaign in two thousand sixteen and in kind of like apply the into the Conservative Party like radical entries and into the Tories and that is why he is wandering around Scotland and petting cows well. It's going really ugly this is this is why I'm quite surprised. The cows look unimpressed into nose into this so the October Tober thirty first deadline right and there's been so many of these deadlines in the past with Brexit like just kicking it down. It's this is really hard for me. Understand is like what it whether you are pro remain pro brexit pro. No deal brexit soft consent brexit negotiated cake breads. I I don't or the UK what bargaining chips do they have with this brexit thing because like brexit the EU like Brussels or whatever just like okay. You'RE GONNA do it right so is it. How can they back out or negotiate anything. At this point well. It's completely broke and it's really unclear what Europe is saying for very long time people blemish Albany they were interested in having a change in the political climate and there was a school that he was interested in negotiating with Jerry Coping Britain <unk> obviously gone particularly well since then on the opposite sound like the Labor policy but things reached fever pitch to be honest in terms of the direction direction at practically every body wants the country to go in and it's essentially ended up meaning the the only people who have any form of insurgency now era people wanna a no deal brexit and people will revoke article fifty which effectively meaning wouldn't believe in European Union politics has become really really polarized incredibly quickly over the past I four or five months what a new deal brexit like what would that mean for the UK and what what why. Why is this scary or if you're Boris Johnson a a preferable thing well. There's a lot of widespread fear the lots of medicine you know which is made in your opinion say people who need insulin the might be able to get their insulin which absolutely terrifying for people who are a vulnerable in British society imagine living in a country where people can get their insulin. That's that's fucking big thing now. It's this big outcry in the from the British public about the <hes> Boris Johnson Donald Trump trade deal and a lot of people worried that the NHS was going to be on the table and loss of big Pharma was gonNA come over to the United Kingdom and effectively it just absolutely like recor. NHL In you know put a racket ball. Threw it on the list. Trust <hes> one of our ministers she. She said she tried to reassure people by saying thing you know look. We're never going to touch the jess. This is just you know on the table. Bull Donald Trump trump. He was absolutely right and he said look everything is on the table. The sandwich privatized pots the chessel ready. There's no way you can effectively say a state assets. You know so in effect like you have to win you discussing with you know say in America the you'll soon aspects of the chess which is currently not privatized may have the bill may have to fall into the hands of American corporations in exchange for the stuff that we won't right and we've been actually trying to sort of wedge our way we being American pharmaceutical companies which I personally represent <hes> we've been trying to wedge our way into the NHL since the sixties like you can find big you know the representative forbath would like to denounce the efforts by American pharmaceutical. You can find that shit in the minutes from like the sixties over there I mean just is such a really astonishing and unique thing in this centralized state system which provides healthcare the point of a point of need is extraordinary in nine seven. He said the other stuff their mouths with gold to the pharmaceutical companies. This look like you think you think you like your. HSA But you have not experienced health savings account flexibility pretty experiencing monsoon bill get health savings accounts. You get the big sodas again. Yes it's defined. It's like a game you get to learn a lot of new rules and if you don't follow them exactly you die after well you gotta give me some tips. would lie talks literally game. I guess I guess my question is what is our boy Jessica. <hes> how is Corbin and the good part of the Labor Party what what is their strategy and all this is from what I see is like Corbin's planet kind of cool wall is waiting in the wings but what what is their strategy here so current strategy of the leadership is to push for general election currently rolled did for a really really going hard on the general election lots of most the things are being planned in terms of a mass strategies involve in like you know the half a million strong membership that we have utilizing utilizing the power of the trade union movement using the flight momentum to stop pushing on social media and developing a lot more sort of like easily easily accessible viral content after he focused on the manifesto particular demands of the manifesto which you're never ever covered in mainstream discourse. Both of you know things that you now of hugely popular the public which is that rail nationalization taking the water back into public ownership. You know things like this on the evidence coming geared for that the moment yeah there's quite all of the confusion about strategy we make we make our strategy recently was the we don't want to call a general election until we rule no deal <unk> as illegal which happened today so that did happen today and there's. GonNa be a vote in parliament today about whether whether or not to have a general election but is expected to be rejected so why is corbin a chicken why why is he a chicken man him. Stop it as a chicken man they were handing out the broiled chicken to reporters which by the way incredibly British I take. It looked jar it. It'll humorous disgusting. It fucking eraserhead. She's like America. Try to start like that. It would would be like Popeye's or something appetizing what the fuck fucking idiot out the kind of like he's a British guy and he really just wants to be American and he like call Tony. Yes the one yeah Yeah Watson and the thing you know all the rights in battery humor and why is he. Why is he a chicken. What do they want him to do that. He was the actual like text that the chicken came with it says something along the lines kinds of move over colonel. There's a new big chicken chicken chicken for not calling a general election before the October thirty first deadlines eat chicken for not accepting a new deal now move over Colonel Jeremy Corbyn the new biggest stick well. I guess it's because he didn't call a general election when a when immediately wanted into which would have been stupid since the whole strategy is to rula ruled no deal breaks out of order legal so Boris Johnson Strategy when that theory of Oh. Maybe they'll call. Maybe they'll forget their entire strategy and call an election early and then they don't fall for that. We'll just call him a chicken and then they'll do it then to be fair. He does forget things sustains. It's chicken Colin wow country. That's not a bad for someone who like literally forgets what he saying as he saying it. He's just assuming that like his enemies will just sort of like lose the thread of what you guys do you guys make of. Boris compared to trump because I think I don't think he goes in. He's a little tastier. I disagree with that. I said he's not as hot as trump. I feel like because trump does the thing where he leans forward like he's on the bow of ship and I just feel like Boris is more solid like he stays over a center of gravity so you can imagine national refuge can stand you can imagine like wrestling to the ground and leaves footage of not. GonNa Kit overplaying rookie exactly really solid. He was more like mentally put together then trump but then there was that thing in front of the policemen then we just sort of couldn't figure out what he was saying and it's like why are all world leaders senile right now marcus my favorite thing with Boris Boris Johnson that I've seen recently when he when it was the Tory leadership race and he was the front runner but he's doing a lot of media trying to distinguish himself and there is an interview with her asked him like you know Boris. What what do you do in your free time you know just to relax and you can see the pause mouth agape for a second because you see the gears in his head turning and he's just thinking don't say drink all the time. Don't say drink all the time they'll say drink all the time don't say get drunk every fucking night and and then he just when he came up with he says I liked to paint buses on the crates of wine that I have in my house. I have so many crates of want infancy crates of wind in my house that I paint them for fun funniest way of saying like just an alcoholic in my spare time and he was describing the people that paints the bliss right. He makes people on the bus well. It's like what Margaret Thatcher said if you're over for twenty five and taking the bus you're you're a loser you lose a you want to be about making the most of America so what are the other. I guess entertaining <hes> aspects of this whole story is this whole thing with Boris had the vote in parliament and then he had all these defections from from his own party where they voted against him and walked off the floor of the parliament yeah this is. This is really good so this guy affiliate lay he. He is this book in <hes>. I guess he's quite like an American style of nasty politics. He's area is really really really hostile towards. <hes> you know like <hes> refugees very subtle refugees book. It considers himself. Liberal Book and he did this really stupid thing where he said the in a Parliamentary Korea hearing the all immigrants should be a refugee sorry to be tested to have hepatitis B. or C. or hang Jarvi AIDS and instead they should be tested and obviously like people just immediately said how utterly fucking inhumane those and his response to it was like Oh actually this. She's a really good thing for the gay community. HIV AIDS in American. It's really really American and obviously he like it does the European Union because it's this a monolithic neoliberal trade bloc regulates capital and he's all about the guy that that that essentially is the nature of the split within the Tory party between the vote that Boris Johnson and lost from his own party with those defections at those people walking out there. These are people who are conservative but like pro e u conservative kind of also. I think Dominic Cummings is kind of a call to Korea stike apart by David Cameron. It's quite a sort of common thing thing to hear him referred to as the only Leninist because he's he's a very very direct very tactical very serious about what he wants. If you ask about him so you never been like a Conservative Party member he did loads of really like madcap stranger so of business meetings in the East including trying to organize a old railway system. I think it might be like a like a flying like a flight from Paul of Siberia Ukraine and this was just prior stroke and I think by the KGB's shut down very eccentric us us. He's got he's got mad cap plans for trade with the Far East selling opium to China. I think it'd be interested in nineteenth century like opioid Disney. Thank one of the things that confuses people to in America about this stuff is that there are are left wing anti brexit years and there are left-wing brexit tears there are also right wing anti brexit and right wing Pro Brexit. What is the division in the Tories. Do you think between like sort of the kind of protectionist actionist more nationalist type like probe Brexit and the you know what we would recognize more of the capitalist Pro Crowley. You kind of Tory party like was it like half and half are what well it's. There's a very small group of Torian piece called. Er G <HES> who you know they've always been like very very a local European research group and they've always been like very very staunch. Eurosceptics always been very very hostile to the European Union in an Europeanism in general and the whole thing is interesting because although they've been the kind of main standard-bearers of your skepticism on the kind of hard-right Hi to British politics dominate coming soon spearheaded the vote leave campaign he had this extraordinary diatribe lied about how much she hates them like He. He doesn't really standard them. He thinks they're all just a bunch of doom the headed fools from the past the rebirth British imperial glory and so people don't really dont reading a lot of times though the er but that that really kinda look in look into the past basically in thinking you can break away from your open rebuild like a strong imperial period Britain but then most of the conservative MP's just interested in the very smooth wouldn't give capitalism under the deaf all pretty fine with the European Union that none Outta. These people seem to like each other which I'm enjoying a lot. I mean it does the option. Hey the units that they show extraordinary. I mean if the unity of that class in his extraordinary you know extraordinarily can deliver some family strife year. Boris his own brother got kicked out of the party end Winston Churchill's grandson you how fucking good as they look like de-selected him or something which means it like he can't stand if there is a general election or something yeah. I mean so good Nixon Nicholas Soames Churchill's grandson and like he was he was in his doing his final statement in parliament is so like I don't know it's the way that Brexit is created. These these situations where these these are really guilty men have been able to sort of like reinvigorate and revived their own like so of public integrity by declaring their opposed to nasty Borresen Ariston you know like the calamity of Brexit Philippic is he's scored the earth and I was like reinventing with some like saying liberal. He wants to bring in Britain back from the brink okay. This is starting to sound very very familiar over here. I mean so Winston Churchill grandson the only oh I think he was really known for in parliament was <hes> like about in maybe like fifteen years ago about six female in the collective complaint against the sexual harassment and they they they also mentioned one of them was brief into the <hes> newspaper the time about it they mentioned that they I used to respond to a sexual advances by shouting. Click which was in reference to a book that his ex wife votes in which she said the having sex with him. I was like a double cabinet falling on you with a key still inside of it. Oh Damn off. He kept running for office after that. He didn't fucking can kill him that eases Christ. No Shit is wow is to know more about sure she's evil to hugh but that's just a great fucking line absolutely horrible guy and he he would make like a wolfing no oh no no actually actually there was a really really good as well so I was the Kumble they'll Blairite spin doctor Malcolm Tucker famous so like he apparently like a cold the <unk> policy Campbell about ten years ago and just I was kind of like trying to abuse him over the phone and was screaming stuff that on the phone I'm like are you sex. God you are on his new. The greatest of all great men and the person answered like actually spoke back to him. It was like talking dirty Alister Campbell son God very very Tori behavior. Oh my God yes repulsive. Some people like honestly Berko. The speaker of the House resigned today because he was a little bit quirky and he was known as been privately a little little bit liberal in the skeptical dwells brexit and Boris Johnson <hes> you know all of these really really like glowing the comments from all sides of the House to be honest about how good he is. Basically this is some fella who he was. GonNa face an investigation over some really really serious serious bullying allegations from his former stop. You know well I they will be Riveria condemnatory about the way you talk to people you know this this included some staff members saying thing that they you know they had like PTSD as a result of dealing with him because he just oh aggressive. This is the guy that was in that clip. I saw going around where I watched. It and I was like again. How the fuck is this a real country like what the fuck is going on here. Very auty said was like you really are earning. Gargle row to the right honorable gentleman with your drop off. Your kids are the school our children go together your daughter not boy like this is just like what what is. What is this shit. It's been a stupid country so long is just in catching up with us as well you the the Games up. Wait until people start dying by the way because then you'll get if you're lucky like a weird McCain funeral. We're all the liberals will just start like you. You know saying like this is when the Conservatives were good people they were honorable men and then you'll just spend the whole day vomiting marcus. I mean like you mentioned and how like all of these these absolute goals are now sort of rebranding themselves as putting country over party and standing up to you know brexit and mean Nasty Boris I mean this is a phenomenon where we're well acquainted with here in America with trump and the sort of respectable right if you want to call them that I mean like another kind of parallel we were talking about. I'm interested in your thoughts on it is how this idea of like ever since the Brexit vote past remain has become like the same kind of fixation that liberals have in this country with like Russia Gate and Donald Trump up and it just like <hes> they blame Russia for Brexit yeah. It's this idea that like there's something happened that they never thought was possible of happening and it's like sort of frozen them all an amber and they just sort sort of can't imber frozen <hes> but like you know what. I mean like it's become kind of an identity in a fixation that like no politics can move forward until they get their way or just yes absolutely it was just sort of go back in time and undo the thing that happened that they can't deal with yeah. I mean they really are the people who kind of brand themselves as a Tasha. BP You'll really remaining people people. This is really really big sole thing than two soldiers the magin anything happened before two thousand sixteen as being like really really solid in a different world hold on everything just changed. June two thousand sixteen and that was the and the they live talking about things like the two thousand twelve Olympics. You know remember that in Daniel Craig the big thing for them. You know the opening ceremony which you're just like a grotesque they don't you know it wasn't real in those people kill it. There was like whoa veterans killing themselves over the bedroom tax and really punitive benefits measures. You know like hundreds of people made homeless every single year. It was a really really unpleasant pleasant society in two thousand twelve leading it really. Is this like parallel. Thank though where it's like you know for us. It's the Obama years and all of the Liberals. I just want to go back to when they were able to ignore the misery and chaos and now that like you know they're man is in in the White House. Suddenly these problems are more visible and they don't know how to deal with it. They can't deal with politically. They're just in denial. They're they're just completely. <hes> they're trying to just you know completely overturned the democratic process anything they can possibly do to make it go back before they knew knew how bad things were completely agree. It's just you know the crisis years finding gold up to them and they have no meaningful productive solution. You know like a way out of this so they're only answer. It's just the retreat into like a very recent past which wasn't real anyway. A what over Corbin has gotten a lot of shit for not being pro remain enough like what is labor part of Corbin's Labor Party what is like their current stance as it comes to brexit well so it is a little incoherent is kind of being ripped off because I think currently undergoing a process where like the whole of the policy is trying to work out what we're really going to do because it looks like we're on the cusp of power. Even is one of those things you don't to be complacent but the the way that the media reshape against those even if we're just ten points behind now we were eighteen points behind when the general election was cold in two thousand seventeen and we received the home parliament now. I think you know lots of the Pauling between seven evident ten points behind although in the past week is this might even change by the time the show comes out in the past week. We've been about two percent ahead of Boris Dettori so I think we if we just basically lead a general election charge by talking about Brexit as little as possible and talking about things that really matter Sutri the whole infrastructure British society is complete crumbling. This report came out today about like a teacher talking about upset because there's been a record number of teachers reporting that there are the five year old six year olds and seven year olds Aurora openly discussing killing themselves in classrooms. You know like I said it's a society like a really profound like crisis and the the needs to be so positive reform of the whole country is just going to get worse and worse and more and more and more dilapidated. I think if we let the campaign based around this based around composites <unk> solutions to very very real problem is that millions of people facing. I think we probably will win it on a you know a minority government book currently the the we'll get out on is the we are. GonNa win the election were going to go to the European Union negotiate a much better brexit deal which prioritizes worker's rights environmental protections and so and then we're going to pull it back to the public on a complimentary vote now. There's a huge huge debate over whether that is going to be a like a labor deal or a <hes> a no deal. I believe that was the that was what the Union which is a very influential left wing trade senior. I believe that's what they wanted. A currently the strategy seems to be <hes> it's going. It's going to be a labor deal or remain votes so you easy was cool so just no idea. Jacuzzi go even because it is you know it's a it's a balance because it's completely split. Let's go coalition office. When you're talking about seven fifty five of labor seventy ninety five target seats the next election voted leave and something like sixty percent now constituency votes leave over two third about membership votes remain create the huge <hes> you know like opening chasms in the the policy itself though it is a very very complex flex situations of managing the son's to me it's all about moving away from the whole album and the emphasizing how completely broken this country as needs to be positively restricted instructors right so final question what is Ireland. What's what's going on with that. <hes> <hes> we were just. I actually I have had to explain the backstop like ten times and I've never gotten better at it and I think that it's also like the the the approach to it changed like in the last like five days anyway so that's I have no idea I'm can you like sort of walk us through like a Northern Ireland and the backstop. Oh so what do you typically because it is very very ugly. Topic topic isn't it. Are the troubles going to kick off again. That's what I wanNA know are they. Are we gonNA bring back. New Wave Music and pub bombings folic Lavas. Yes yes. That's what I WANNA know well. When Britain was fun I think the big thing is is is just you know what's the backstop and and what would violate the backstop and what kind of a deal wouldn't also so the box office is the kind of is the name given to a very very <hes> sort of like slack drafted agreement between in Britain <unk> union that just stop say a hard border in Ireland which means I won't be like a military checkpoint so you know the the Irish police checking your or whatever <hes> if you're crossing the North Pole by spur not means it probably means keeping no of island in some aspects of the single market is always a huge political football because <hes> I think like Leo Vodka the Irish Prime Minister said yesterday the basically the removal of the border will affect me no deal brexit because the major straight colder than Nolan won't accept this and European Union won't accept to either cool sexy topic is trying to mention. I maybe just like GEICO. Eight is an interesting topic. It's just that there's no solution like this. There's no prediction. We possibly make at this point. I mean I won't be because prediction just to comment more so it just recently came out that Lord Mountbatten was a patio so IRA most effective active sicko hunters in history. Let's go back on the case rates. Detective season for let's go did did you did. Did you see that new book about Lord. Mountbatten just destroyed Abacha insane. US like a nine hundred sixty eight he was interested in plotting a Kuu against Harold Wilson kind of like centre-left prime minister at the time just because he nationalized a few things and settle the Oakland University people thought that he was a Soviet agent and the Lord Mountbatten really did think that and he was interested in a like get implementing a plan which would mean the like this little block doc of generals like industrialists and various captains of industry will be propelled into a new. Goldman was deposed Harold Wilson and the people around them. I'm really interested in having a Cheryl Moseley. They wanted him to lead this national government all right well the crash. I saw something on your thing like the idea that like that like Harold Wilson who is not a very threatening figure. They were like let's Spring and Moseley. There's never been a Soviet agent named Harold. I'm sorry I'll check. Listen My my dad's uncles. It does tell you that of corporate gets in there. He's going to have to arm the avs immediately because they will be. How do you know that would anyway. The Internet memes leaves. Oh what are you talking more because I got. I got got one more question for you. Another thing I don't understand who are the Lib Dem's and what are they. What are the WHO. Who is the typical Lib them voter and politician? How how would you describe describe them the the kind of defined by anything particularly deal now. They're the reminders yes yeah. I mean yeah the double. They basically just like changed. Forever will ever saw major you know soft soft serious like outcry society at at the time you know they were really into a get rid of Jewish face <unk> infamously. They were really interesting situation for these not mentally how to huge huge huge <hes> kind of insurgent campaign in two thousand ten with Nick Clegg whether <unk> millions of student votes never never received them before and then within about nine months because they got votes to actually form a coalition with the Conservative Party with about nine months of being in power they already like vote Oh to triple Jewish face so like student riots and so on my impression or at least what I suspected is that they were just like sort of liberals. Does that might have been Blairites but we're like two unsuccessful to get to work their way into the Labour party. There's also these other no. There's kind of like a good article by Solomon huge. He's a really good the British investigative journalists <hes> on Jacobinical the Liptons is new friends and he goes go straight a bit because they've always tried to push themselves as being economically competent Kinda socially progressive and for thinking and so on but like you can really say that about now. I mean Tim far enough home. Eliezer was like an obsessive homophobic. You know really really really angry. The former angry than likes sane individual could ever be about equal marriage and you stop staring all sorts of a generic progressive legislation blagent that would just you know hell cupolas people <hes> loads and loads the people at Sugar Muna entrusted than a all sorts of politics six in flirted with quite hard-right Labor politics for awhile quite socially conservative politics. I mean took removed himself. I remember him saying about two years ago. The we should <hes> we should just basically make an agreement with the European Union where we keep all the economic benefits of the European Union but we did ban immigrants grinch coming into the country is horrible. That's a great position so I like the rapacious capitalism heart heart. I don't like the part where we get to help refugees. It's it's like I like the Regulation Nation of neoliberalism across the UK. Give me but like I would never like live next to a Polish. That's the biggest the Gospel Liberal Democrats to I think the only consistent thing that you can say about them into policy and character is the role but for their own particular reasons seasons obsessed with preventing the Labor government getting into power well Marcus. I WanNa thank you so much for your time unfulfilling us in on all that like I said hopefully you will be the northern Viceroy America does our regime change style invasion of the UK. Ah Commerce off a domino falls in Donald's will know yeah great stock market. Do you have anything anything anything to plug the Labor Party. How about this. We keep <hes> let us know when you guys call general election. We'll come over are there and do a whistle stop rat pack style tour one hundred percent of the Midlands and just <hes> boosted for Corbett. We'll just be out there. Be Like don't know what at this town is. Don't know anything about Brexit then here. We do really cut valleys with you. We'd it'd be great if we could sing high hopes. Hillary t-shirts still absolutely marcus once again. Men really great to talk to you you too. Thanks take by AH THE MEMBERS <HES> IT takes the chance of the Duchy Ah when he turns out our children's school as a parent. He's a betty well behaved fellow wouldn't dare I behave like that in front of calling all night sticky aver rent. Spero's theatrics behavioral cell. Oh boy okay we are back with the second of our double down episode of <hes> interviews but very happy to say if you've got another <hes> all-star for you. It's a cedar joining us again making his chick getting his two-time Chapo Appearance Challenge coin a Seeda now at the New Republic and and I'm very excited to be talking to you sita because you just did some you know on the ground <hes> sports reporting from the wide world of intellectual combat. I'm talking of course about David French versus versus versus so rab a Mary. Mary moderated by Ross doubt doubt doubt at the American Catholic University versity versity you covered a intellectual debate that has been roiling the intellectual electrical side of the conservative movement in America for the New Republic. It's a piece upright now called the rights culture. War is a drag drag. The right wing's cultural civil. War is a drag so acidic. Could you give some background here on the lead up to this the this clash of the Titans yes. O.'s very thrilled to be up to you sort of Ali Frazier of conservative coasters last week yeah so the the a basic background is that for several months now a number of conservatives have been really terrified. Lifelong non called Drag Queen Story Hour this this is a it's a group those not really formally organized as a single group but some folks who basically invite drag. Queens to public libraries across the country have the children make arts and crafts sing songs this kind of thing in May shout. Laurie who's the ED editor at The New York Post Sawn ad for one of these events <hes> that was gonNA take place in Sacramento and posted it to twitter saying that this was evidence of the new demonic front in the culture wars. It should be noted because smart lives in New York. City was sufficiently threatened by this events. Ah gazillion miles away in Sacramento Tikka Post about it would have just stayed you know an odd tweet out not for the fact that he continued continued in a threat and said that one of the people preventing the ride from agricultural addressing the threat posed by dry coon store. Our was David French David French sure everyone knows it's a friend in the show one of the most prominent never trump conservatives on the rights at <unk> in a tweet that mentioned French that the trenches too polite and too naive about the threat that progressives pose to conservative served values to really be an effective warrior for the right <hes> French sees this tweets writers response in National Review saying that for all of his I guess politeness and a Nice Guy. He's been a fighter for conservative causes and the courtroom. He's been an advocate for conservative. It causes a national review and this sort of creates a back and forth and and during this back-and-forth emerges basically that Amari's main in beef against French and East Osmond conservative movements is that he thinks that they're too respectful well <hes> of what people call classical vice and buying classical liberalism like free speech freedom the Patriots fresh involve these the things I understand all that stuff he thinks that the American moving as we come to respectful of those values to really fight picked the battle against progressives and the left we see says won't up earns all values in their their brazen and attempt to force people to to watch dragon story out you quote the original tweet in the peace again about drag greene story our <hes> Sacramento California <hes> The tweet was this is demonic to hell with liberal order sometimes reactionary politics or the only salutory path so this was the the Fort Sumner. I guess start this <hes> right wing civil war between him and David French and I guess like David David French represents the traditional kind of like evangelical right wing Christian who also civility and appearing as a nice guy is very important to him whereas so rob represents a kind of more. I don't know franco-ist Catholic right who yeah for whom culture war is not really a metaphor but like you know something quite literal word gets thrown around with Murray is integral lists and people sort of think that he might be a sort of a new vanguard Catholic Catholic into girl is to think that the country should basically <hes> become stock recy- thrall to a certain set of Catholic social values. This is up against trenches more traditional evangelical Protestant protestantism so I mean I I basically think that initially this new piece that for all of this sort of top French and I have had about the accents which they differ on liberal values and extensive which French or other conservatives are will nice enough to to fight the battles that things were fighting. There is a substantial amount of overlap between the two of them in the way that they talk about the left the way they talk about progressives and in their willingness both of them even French calls classical liberal their willingness to both US government's power to oppose certain cultural values on people agree with the most obvious example of this would be abortion. Rights large loss of the country is now effectively impossible to ah an abortion French supports French's intact so pro-life that he voiced basically unreserved support for that Alabama <hes> billing all in this year that basically bend nearly all abortions bill that was so extreme that even pro-life Conservatives and even the editorial board of the National Review said that you know this is this is way out. Affairs is going to be counterproductive. Movement French actually run a p site. Now this is good. This is in fact essential part of what we need to sort of want a final assault on on Roe versus Wade so for all the talk about classical liberalism and infringes defenses of individual liberty. They're still both you know familiarly early cultural conservatives. I think people in the same old same old lovers and you know you mentioned that I mean the really really the probably the funniest part about this is what kicked it off. Is this idea that this drag queen story our phenomenon and you begin your piece by listing a number of the insane acts of mass murderer that have happened in America just over the last couple of weeks. The fact that now ninety six percent of all American school children undergo active shooter drills like the same way we did you know fire drills at school which you know. I'm sure what warped their minds in any way but you know you go down this list of genuinely like terrifying and bizarre things that have we've now come to accept in American culture and then you write take full measure of liberal roll alarm and consternation over gun violence and its impact on our youngest and you might come to understand the terror inspired within a particular corner of the conservative world this year by by drag Queens story hours and getting into the debate itself. You said basically you were shocked to find out how much of this debate at American Catholic University still was talking about drag Queens story our yeah and I shouldn't have been but you know I really went in there expecting Marvez saying look. I got made fun. I love for focusing initially giant story out but really I was using as an entry point to say bubble but really the first thirty to forty minutes of this exchange was Amari just like detailing different parts of drag Queens story our he found objectionable. He cited a video and England's not even in this country. There's there is is a giant our apparently by the dry-cleans was teaching kids how to work and he quoted from from caption in the video describing having this person teach dance move. You said that this was evidence that how demonic it was he said at one point that there are thirty five chapters across the country and this is evidence that this is a growing movement. That's when to subsume all of our children and fringe I. I think you know himself also surprised by this. He source scoffed at the idea. The thirty five chapters of this thing was a real threat. I too conservative Warner in America but one of the things in the piece is that French and I think establishment conservatives who've align align themselves with him in this debate really have a right to be surprised us they are that Amari is sort of abandoned the liberal project yeah I mean he trashes also been somebody who's frame the rest of laughed as being overweening overly draconian in simulation of certain social values one of the questions for me. I've always had the conservative movement. How can you if you're somebody like David French right every other week? Think about how supposedly there's this sort of mass slaughter of infants an abortion it takes lessons country every year by the million and then sort of leave on Saint Paul. You know we still we still want to respect our interlocutors and we still think that they are not necessarily ah people and they deserve ride saw it just shows that they don't really believe it exactly and then suddenly like a Martin comes along and says well wait a minute like if we do believe these people are mass murderers may extend them the rights and privileges of Liberal Society. Why wouldn't we wage an actual war against that and so defeat this this immorality and I think that's ultimately like the more coherent position if you believe what conservatives claim to actually believe and I think that's why I'm Ari sorry it's attacks friends had been so competitive rock some conservative role they think there are a lot of the University of saw a lot of young people there eh traditionalist Catholics and people from across difference. You know we're very into this sort of new warfighting. Amari is trying to get people from reading your article and the other accounts of this debate that I've seen my sort of conception of the difference between like what they're actually arguing over and you and again in your article you do a very good job of showing how the David French position is not like the the Nice liberal position by by any means so we shouldn't be giving him too much credit but from what I can identify it seems that the difference between them is that David French French and those like him basically take for granted that the Christian right wing point of view culturally has lost and is now a moral minority ignoring me in this country and that essentially they would like to use the state to preserve the rights of their alternate lifestyle whereas Amara is just like no we should impose a Catholic social order that overrides the bill of rights and the constitution yeah that's right. I mean that we've seen over the past couple of years to various ways that traditional social conservatives unpacked tried to deal with the reality cultural plurality. Lucarelli of Roger got a lot of attention for his book on Bend Adoption which is sort of a model for and service retreating into predictive communities where they can sort of live lines that they want to away from the nefarious accusations of people who directly story our things like <hes> but Amari is just sort of fundamentally not <hes> willing to make compromise still believes in the form of Christian Dominion that bowel wretched should control this country <hes> <hes> I think it's very similar and I wrote went not long ago to the National Conservative conference also here in DC where you had people like Amari but people who are guests when we're less sir less explicit religious copy these cultural issues but you had there also the sort of sense that people are willing to just throw away certain nostrums and certain norms that such massacres had veered for so long because they believe <unk> by doing that there could secure themselves and the amount of power that even though they are jaw minority in the country though they're not going to be able to get people to agree with him on how bad I can story hour is not gonNa when back public's opinion about gay rights they still believe leave by battening liberal values they can secure from solves enough local power to at the very least make other people's lives as miserable miserable as they can something they can do because this is a country that has counter majoritarian institutions are disproportionately power and the American conservative and so even if it's a case that Amar he's never gonNA convince people like us that transgender people are terrible. Drag Queens are demonic certainly at the the state level in in in a lot of power that can do damage to LGBT rights to reproductive rights for women and still at the federal a level of course because of the way the powers allocated conservatives Joyce seat at the table federal policy-making longtime dot enjoys supporting the work the people I just I'm curious like where someone like this ends up on kind of economic spectrum because it seems seems to me like if you're spending all this time on drag Queen Story our even people who are sort of generally what we would consider kind of just culturally conservative. You've in America are not hardened reactionaries like they might be like. I don't know about that but they don't really care like it doesn't seem like drag Queens Story. Our is even like enough of a of a platform to even show up on those people's radar. Even as a novelty like like is there. Some kind of <hes> implicit sort of like economic program or is it. I mean the Catholic thing goes a lot of different directions you notice career and what I've noticed going to things like the national considers conference is that there is definitely a real willingness in this corner the right to rethink market fundamentalism <hes> to make the governments <hes> establish a larger role for government providing health care <hes> and beating eating backslid the machinery using equality because conservatives cultural conservatives think the capitalism is bad for all kinds of ways. Hartsburg Art Grace Social Right. Obviously there's been a lot of social dislocation <hes> the Conservatives think been caused by capitalism but also or at the very least they they see that social dislocation being caused by the economic patterns past few decades if they don't connect with capitalist system and they see industrial ruin something that leads to social elves and then these are things that I have created a real willingness to think <hes> very fuzzy really about the extensive lights have an interest in in moving upward on certain questions but it's still very hazy <hes> the way that like south trump's. Lewis talk during the primary healthcare and trade policy was hazy but village people should understand about that is that when you have these conservatives then derailed by talk about drag Queens starring our and by Maris Ariz demonization of the left and sort of tales of cultural ruin and <unk> progressives trying to force whatever agenda Eulogy they imagined by force people went when when that's enters the conversation and all of that sort of productive to rethinking of conservative economics can get derailed and I think that's left the lunch really pay attention to in conversation that there is <hes> sort of right wing populism something of a kernel of economic awareness that if the cultural conservatives succeed in <hes> burying under all of this nonsense is going to go in and I I think that people should really pay attention to Bubbas that there is something happening but it could evaporate very quickly could see the fascinating thing to me about Amara and not just him but as sort of figure head for. I don't know yeah like you said whether they wanna that'd be called integral lists tread cats or I would prefer just classic hard-right Catholic fascism like nerds Carla's. What are all these a amaury converted to Catholicism in Two Thousand Sixteen. I like I said my cat is older than his religious faith and like literally this entire phenomenon. I don't know a single trad person who was cradle Catholic. They're all like young too late. In Life Converts to Catholicism and our friend Catholics there loud tacky people well who go to bass once every couple of months because their grandmother yells at them. They're not these people they're not the nerds they're not where the tweed. Cape where so you know and now they are the Guinea but our friend Asian Polian had a really good point about this where it was just like hey everybody everybody. I just found out about this group two weeks ago <hes> they're so good in fact that I'd like him to have dictatorial control over the entire country and it just like could you maybe a little bit more humble about this shit like you just discovered this like yeah like a couple of weeks ago but but also to me like going off of that and like in reading the both your write up of it and some of the people who were live tweeting this debate and when encountered interviews of the Mauri in the past I think journalists in New York magazine did I did one and what it always comes down to this question of like okay like you're hinting around the you're nibbling around the outside of this okay liberal culture is demonic and needs needs to be destroyed but what are you actually going to do like if we just gave you that power like what would our society actually looked like and when pressed last on that I think either they don't know themselves or more likely are being purposely very cagey about what they're actually thinking about did that come across in the debate. Te'o indefinitely did I mean I didn't really offer any solutions for example for drag Queens story our beyond wanted to bring the head of something called the Modern Library Association doesn't doesn't exist before Congress. He made the really Nice Books Yeah Yeah. That's what the King Librarian stand stand trial. Also passing local ordinances might be Washington to conservative mind your business and the local Google if that's what you believe if people Sacramento are fine with it than like a conservative you don't you you you believe in these fractured local politics they'll be like for him. It's not only that that door only swings both ways as far as I can tell the people. Sacramento couldn't care less of a drag queen story hour at one in public library like I think for I think that cultural conservatives like him had this sort of like hazy in The Sky Vision of what a jury in America might be but if they were ever against the amount of power that they think that they walk. I think it's sort of like you. The dog chases the joker right. I mean I I think I think that they depend so so much rhetorically. Ah just sort of spiritual also this idea of perpetual Margaret. They're always lose. The leftist always ascendant that the right is always the underdog that is so fundamental to who they are political existence the Netto know that they would even be equipped to relate to magic the way that they they would certainly do a lot of damage to people dislike but I don't think there's any kind of real comprehensive program for redoing America Neymar. He's GONNA run up one blow moms but it's not something that we've seen. It's just what have constance list list of grievances. Doing I mean six months. He might be a scientologist like also we like. I I do think it is worth also considering the possibility that this just might might be like a weird kind of trend. That's festering in this limited political state where all of the traditional institutions are fake bullshit parties anyway for the right and the left ostensibly aren't doing anything for any of their constituencies and so like this this is this is the this is the things that are like you know. This is the algae bloom after the hurricane a drives me crazy whenever whenever I read read these debates or like the try to lay out there put if you yes drag queens are demonic liberal culture literal actual demons influence of Satan. I would like doubt that or dreyer or Amari or any of these people just asked pointblank gay people in American society. What are you going to do with them. If you're in America America under your ideal society what is Your Life Look like what is your interactions with the state like is is that illegal now if so. How is that going to be policed. Are you are you. Are you going to say say yes. I think people should be put in jail for being gay it. We're having Geisha never want to jump to the point of policy because basically they have to as we have figured out on the show admit that either they don't really believe what they're saying or they would impose draconian horrifying refine policies on people because they do believe it so either. You don't believe that there's like a you know a a baby holocaust happening all the time and you just say it because you're a cynic and careerist interest or you know do believe it and you. WanNa put women in jail and so you have to say that like you have to say that and I think that's why French is more realistic because he's like these. These aren't popular positions. These aren't going to mobilize people. No one likes US whereas Amari has this fantasy that he's going to like like fucking Organiz these fucking requenes out of like the the humble American like you know lump in American Christians. We're all GONNA get triggered by a tragic story hour. Even though it's pretty clear just by watching American culture that these things have the way the conservatives were worried would become accepted over time and we say that's good and they think it's horrible but the fact of it is unavoidable and like where he's going to get these guys who are going to get the snap to this stuff who have now like pretty much shown their support trump stuff that they don't really give a shit about any of that moral bullshit when it comes to politics. It's really just a kind of a a set dressing then you know I think it's because it's so he's so new it. He has not gotten the message on how things work in in this country and so he thinks no. We'll just we'll tell everybody. We'll go down to town. Tell everybody about the drug scene story our they'll pick up the pitchforks and they'll follow us like fucking lie. Von Day rebels during the French Revolution. I like the idea of like trying to hold a rally in someplace where they had like drag Queen Story our someone screaming so you don't even know what I'll say about French. I think it's true that he is more in touch with the objective reality on the ground but also that it's often as being panicked and being out of touch with reality is actually serve the conservative movement really well and and I mentioned this piece for example <unk>. Has this idea that the media in this country is extremely left-wing terribly biased towards conservatives and their certainty of that convinced them to create a separate media infrastructure that was just as biased as they imagined the liberal media to be in that the Infrastructure Fox is proven to be tremendously important statistically conservative movement. You can look the same thing happening with the conservative. I I is that conservatives who supported because they believe academia's really buys like they're all of these ways. Much conservatives do exactly what they imagined. Evil left is doing and actually shortly wind up as a consequence of that doing creating really really important institutions because the various warped sense of how out of power they are and once again on what they fear is an even like an ascendant left. It's just like a Malays of liberal hegemony the room itself as you said this a bill they even had some dumb name for it like Thrilla in Manila but not cleverer rhyming at all so this was a herald letterman. You Know Oh Teddy Atlas style tale of the tape. Let's get ready to bom balshaw out of all again. I've read the write ups of this. In the you know so the the right wing press of the intellectual right wing press I guess and they all seem pretty unanimous in declaring David French the victor of this debate. What was it like in the room interim. I will say that got most of the applause lines that I notice like David French would add multiple points lodge into this lake various neglect wall stated textbook defense of classical liberalism wally after the rights of your enemy because you don't know when you're going to be out of power and undergoing want those rights yourself and and I would just say while they're aborted a lot of black Davies in New York and we don't care about that and it it got applause. You know like you just sort of like flatly rejected the entire edifice. I've liberal norms that was compelling to at least half the people well in that remote consistent basis again. I will say that there were a lot of young people there's a mix of older his professor oil types but also a lot the younger. Catholics love sweaters any snacks any walking sticks. I'm sure there are a couple of walking stick couple of monks there David Brooks. They're actually naturally but I think that Amari you know in the room was getting a love spot even though he wasn't as quick on his feet as as French was again. I think that there are people who substantively are are with him. I thought I just in in reading the live tweets of it. I thought Amari Mario actually got the burn of the debate with David French was like you Spike Jones Voice. Talk to me about courage. Put You put your a boot on the ground in Iraq at risk your life and then Amari said weren't you in Jag which was a great line because yeah he was he was a fob it but at the same time I watched the actual video clip of it and Amari spits it out very shamefacedly like doesn't deliver it in like a live as good as in the Senate under his breath say nerd. Ali Grow Up Online. He's not going to be able to talk the peasants revolt. I don't think back in just like a very soft spoken person and and not really came through across the bay. That'd be times where you'd say something that I think he intended to be really acidic but like you would say it kind. Defiantly likes that line about fringe league and giant but one of the things I didn't get in the ring so I was sort of off to the side of the stage wasn't really looking people up front. It wasn't until I watched the video will be posted at Dot Com. Let's just how this really uncomfortable everybody on that stage was actually Rostow Rostow that looked like he wanted into fall into himself and it was just like very earnestly trying to get them to find common ground especially at the end and that is exactly when things went off the rails the thing that actually prompted that insult from from Mario Mario was was going back to the common law hearings and and sort of making the claim based on what I don't know that David French and conservatives were not adamant enough new defensive of cosmonaut not when after he was accused of rape and French very indignant at the idea that he had not sufficiently defended ended up from multiple accusations to your point about the cavanaugh thing where he was like I wouldn't trust you to go to bat for credibly accused rapist the spread cavenaugh. He said I didn't Murray said I don't think President Jeb Bush would have gone to bat for Cavanaugh. The way trump did and the French create rightly said his dad went to bat for Clarence Thomas like what are you talking about and what exactly when he said that somebody who is next alleged to me next to the stage yelled out no Bush actually went to Camp David Clarence Thomas and that that was evidence that Bush had not been sufficiently behind him aw they still remember cry- Jamba psychopathic memories of every single thing these hearings and a really fanatical article about naked people in Nairobi really really didn't believe that's. They think there's there's sexual assault trial enthusiasts as their hobby bobby. I actually he was a camp. I I will say I kind of agree <hes> that that JEB wouldn't because he does not have the spine of his of his father of anyone you want a spine has a Cartagena's. <hes> you know rich area didn't take Susan Collins got up there and if any this is not a very high bar to clear for the conservative movement which is why it out which is what made some competent so substantively odd I'd be. You're not too far French because French really did was on one defending recovered all the entire time like the rest of the conservative movement so interesting about this despite the fact that you know so the the online nerds have scored. This debate said that French was the clear winner. Amari you know made a fool of himself and was shown to be should've should've petulant nasty man however I I gotta say I agree with you and and your piece is that like maybe he lost the room or if anyone who watched it on Youtube Youtube but it is the Mari side of this split in the right that I think is in ascendance and you right here. It is not the French inches who will be posed boys to inherit the movement induce do the slaying from here on out not only because they're more openly illiberal attitudes sit better with the rights new populism realism but because ironically those attitudes spring from conservatism deepest sturdiest roots the defenses of old hierarchies that lead early conservative thinkers like Edmund Burke work to regard the then woolley and new ideals underpinning classical liberalism and it's revolutionary proponents with deep caution and often open suspicion yeah Amara. Martin is a true conservative. I mean classical. Liberalism is in Las I fair. Economics is is what we sort of. Have all come to leave within and conventional politics and recent times of being definitive of conservatism is but all of that stuff was sort of grafted on after the fact on to Conserva traditionalism that was really just about making sure that the people who were already at the top near stocker seeing their values remain tainted society aside that is fundamentally. What conservatism is <hes> last. IFA capitalism became a means to that end and now that people have seen in cultural conservatives served of seeing that wall cabinets can actually be very folk and people that they don't lake <hes> Lake and sheaves levels of influence within the system them on the big an anticipated. I think it's only as a consequence of that. They're sort of like now like I said earlier. There's reckoning with economic realities as I think a lot of people it is the fact that culturally capitalism <hes> has created choices that they didn't want people to have that is sworn introduce this this shift away from that few Shenice but but Amari is sort of a throwback and traditionalist conservative and those hours of people who've always been at the crux of the movement. Those people have always been its sole reason. Why am I gonNA wind is that French already agrees with him on half in the stuff anyway he agrees with him on restricting abortion rights agrees with them on imposing restrictions on pornography. They're all kinds of ways awesome. French rolling talks not that liberal values classical liberal is willing to subsume those values under his own sort of cultural religious preferences. Mrs Already basically argument the fact that you have all but not conservatives gathered an African to take a my seriously is evidence that he is in fact and so the catbird seat here and <hes> just as the sort of movement is was bewildered by the rise of Donald Trump and didn't get it. I think within its more intellectual circles. There are things happening but it also cuts. The old guard flat-footed that it shouldn't be cashing the plateau because you know I think that to to attached to customers to understand that it's not fundamentally or oh conservatives about what we're seeing here and this is something we've talked about on the show before is that the classical liberal model or our our constitutional model which as you mentioned is already already anti majoritarian. They've you know used you know quite. Abeille to basically put themselves in the driver's seat of all three branches inches of government quite what they can't do is that those same sort of bourgeois freedoms and and mark market choices have created a culture that is completely now beyond their grasp like I think they have now like almost lobotomize themselves out of any ability to create culture at all and like it is completely the pass them by and there and it's like their success politically is taste like ashes to them because people are okay with other people being gay or don't go to church every Sunday or you know horror of all horrors. There are drag queens at our libraries and if they're like well shit if if the bill of rights has led to this like let's just get rid of that too right exactly I mean complete inability most people in the Mars camp to recognize any like meeting. NFL political victories at the right is one I think or the plastic and there's a point during the debate where Fred Straight up says if you actually look at the number of abortions there happenings kings country they peaked in one thousand nine hundred and there are fewer now than there were when abortions illegal on the eve of Donna Shing Fact Act on it means absolutely nothing to Martin's nothing as long as you can see a gay person on TV as long as they're drag queens at the library they're they're they're losing and it doesn't matter that conservatives can wounded presidency multiple times without the people supporting the election of conservative president or that they control all number of states in the country totally they're throwing the ball rolls none of that means anything because the cultural power that they believe that the left has is so total that nothing ruled that they can actually achieve in the political sphere will hold candle delivery imagine we can sort of two in the cultural space on TV melies Apple Library all that it is more more important to them. It had like a monkey's paw success because what's the point of ruling the country. If no one likes you make your own cool but meanwhile it doesn't matter because they still are able to terrorize us from that thrown and meanwhile the libs are still in charge of culture and they're just mashing every button to get people good now we gotta make all the movies and TV shows good so that the people will not vote for these guys anymore and it's like you're just making marvel. The Universe Graham Shins and it's like this is just beating. This is making everyone wanted. Just kill themselves. Just it's all bad both sides just bashing you in the head. Ed from one or the other from culture politics into until you're just a little beaten a NUB last question here. I got to ask about our boy free way freeway Rostow. How did he do as a moderator. Did he ask any interesting questions or with any any standout moments from Ross your view no no not really towards the end like he really tried to get them to find common ground. He would not not literally been kind of like Nausea Dodge France believable. You also think women shouldn't have reproductive freedom right like y'all. y'All should be happy together but he was really Elliot towards the end of this looking like there's a point one that actual spot happened between French and Amari on French colts. Are you said the French was a JAG dollars talking to like the host of the event luck. You asked me to come and do this. I'm doing the best I can't hear. This is like out of my hands he was he was really kind of a passive moderator looking very tired route and I don't know that he would enjoy doing something like this year well. I think he did get them both to agree that pornography should be made illegal those most important part for much so again I would I would really like I would really like to hear from them like how they plan on carrying that out at this point well. I mean there's stuff happening in the Senate with Josh Holly Ali on Social Media. I think that people see that as sort of like a vehicle for begun to explore content restrictions online functionally. I didn't know that actually gets anywhere at one point French during the debate joke like look if you if you think that banning pornography something that we ought to do. I don't think Donald Trump's going to be your man on that. Sorry sorry and I think he's probably probably right now. Just trump a lot of people on the right who are not going to be as willing to give that up as as they might pretend to be audiences while I'm sure they'll find a way to yeah demonizing actively punish the women involved in it but everyone else there will still be jacking off with impunity. You'll take it from my cold well. I think you're it's pretty warm all right well. Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you for covering this interminable fucking Zubeida. This is real high level mind combat that I honestly though nonetheless I think does point to like an interesting schism in the right right and I think <hes> I think it's GonNa is probably not going to go. I think it's going to be it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out and if more people just become yes integral list now or amber nerds whether they will become even more insufferable nurse yeah come even even more angry and violent nerds than they already are are already so seeda the pieces up at the new republic <hes> we will link to it in the show description <hes>. Thanks for joining us again all right everybody. That's our show for this week. <hes> hope you had a good time. We will talk to you again soon bye bye bye.

Boris Boris Johnson America Donald Trump European Union UK Brexit Conservative Party Marcus David David French England Labor Party Britain American Catholic University Amari Labour Party Corbin Dominic Cummings Marcus Barnett Boris Steve Bannon
142. AOC is A-OK (w/ Connie Wang, Christian Finnegan)

Fake the Nation

1:13:51 hr | 2 years ago

142. AOC is A-OK (w/ Connie Wang, Christian Finnegan)

"Moms so hard creators, Kristen Hanley John Smedley are like your best. Mom, friends only funnier. And with more wine. They know that you probably didn't get to shower today. At the last thing, you need is more advice on how to be a better parent. So instead, they invite you to listen to their left out loud. Banter on the eighty Gillian ways. Moms gave their all every day in the hilarious. Moms so hard audio book you guys as in new mom I can attest to the hilariousness here in. So it is available now on audible apple books. Google play audiobooks dot com and everywhere else. Audio books are sold. I hope you check it out again. It's it's called mom so hard if you have no of or are a problem than we've got a podcast for you. It's the problem with Charles and Casey, it's hosted by Charles Rogers, the creator TBS search party, which is a really great show and comedian and writer Casey, Jane Ellison each week guests like, Louie Anderson, Jessica Williams, and Chelsea. Preti bring them a serious problem in that they're having in their life. And then Charles and Casey, unpack it they reflect on it. They talk smack about it and figure it out, you know, so get ready for uncomfortably deep conversations about every aspect of existence. Listen to the problem with Charles and Casey that's out now on air wolf. Episode one forty two does every creature the world have better hearing. I mean. About minutes early animal that there were tell you. Oh, they have much better hearing humans where you'd be like, oh, I don't believe that. I would like unarmed of arc or some like one of those guys that kind of look like they don't have eared like, Liz. Yeah. Right. Right. Lizards? Yeah. Hey, earthward animal coming about this guy. A scientist. You can see him on net GIO days. Does not know anything that. He's talking about what it comes to the auditory system in mammals of burn. One. Hello, hello. This is fake the nation where we talk about news. We talk about politics, and where we Walton into spring with rosy, cheeks and congested, sinuses. You guys I just wanted to way to explain my voice and my nose. I am you're hosting our Saad and this week. It is my great pleasure to announce the fake the nation has been nominated for a webby. Isn't that weird? I don't know. That's so interesting. There's a jury prize that we have no control over, but there's also like a people's choice element that you can help us win by voting for fake the nation. And this is in the news and politics category of podcasts. You'll see the other nominees are like quite. Big big shows. So we're we're under dogs in in in most alight full way. So if you help us vote that ABI, and I don't know being our bonnet. So the Ural is bitterly. V? I T dot L E Y. No sorry. Not dot L Y slash F. T N webby so bitterly slash F. T N webby you guys, and you can vote for us that be so nice today. We're gonna talk about Biden, we're gonna talk about AO. See we're going to talk about influencers. I'm so excited by the panel. Because we have for the first time I'm so excited to see you in the flesh. It's the senior features writer for refinery twenty nine and host of style out there, which is a docu series also on refinery. She is lovely and is exhibiting style in here Studio B. It's Connie Wong. Thank you so much for having me again. It'd be here. No. Thank you so much. You guys also returning to the show, you know, him you've loved him. He's been here. Since the beginning affects the nation back when we were keeping the show alive with a crank. He's been on comedy central bunch. He has three albums on I tunes, and you should be listening to all of them. He is all over the country and in the United Kingdom, he has made funny. You guys it is Christian Finnegan that is very kind. I have indeed made very limited supply of fun. Dole out sparingly. Okay. You guys. Are you ready for us to begin the shenanigans with vitamin? Ooh, here we go. We're going to launch into one. US Joseph Biden is not only the former vice president United States. He's also the boy from Scranton, the working man's democrat. The white guy who could totally hang with a black president. And now, maybe he's America's creepy uncle. He hasn't even announced that he's running for president. But he's already started the apology tour of his candidacy because allegations of serpent surface that he behaved inappropriately I with an a legislator named Lucy floors. And then a couple of other people had come out or maybe they came out. I I don't know doesn't matter in the in the span of a week of bunch of people have come out a bunch is maybe over. Not not a legal reading on Bunce. Three. Okay. Three. That's not a bunch of little. Go back. Yeah. He's five would be bunch. Few few you guys. So no, my first question is like ease. So where does this like, this this disqualifying view, guys? Well, I think that the the allegation the Lucy Flora's essay was I I I think it was really brave for her to do something like this. He's a vice president, right? Just described the moment for us for people who didn't read the the Lucy Flora's piece. Yes. So I think that this was part of her candidacy, but she was about to go on stage to deliver really big speech. And I think that she really needed some national support. And Joe Biden flown all the way there, and he was he was going to get the crowd going and get people out to vote in while she was waiting in the wings. I think she felt s- hands on her shoulders, and it was Joe Biden, and she unwashed washed her hair, and she she knew that she was like nervous. And you know, when you're nervous. He kind of start sweating and Jen wash your hair and she put his face in the back of her head kissed the back of her head and breathed in deeply like reading. That part. I just got chilled. Roy body was cake. Oh my God. I remember the back of the head. Oh, no, everyone, maybe not. Kissed him smells. It's morning. The the day is young. I've never been one to be like a wonder what that person's air, smells like are. You just like personally is not something that is a thing for me. I mean, not like at the roots somebody flips through hair, salon selectives wave. I mean, there's nothing wrong with that. Yeah. But when he got a borough your nose in there. I've never had that. Yeah. It's a weird way. I'll smell a baby's head. Oh, yes. I gotta pay put you in hailing on her hair. Did she also does not wash by the way? Reminds of you know, that John John Corbett you've ever John. He said have a joke where he would say it's like if the dog's sense of smell, so good. Why does it knows what's his nose have to be right in my balls? Exactly. Well, I I feel like and she made this clear in her as saying to that it wasn't disqualifying. Right. She just wanted to bring up an element that she felt like it was hypocritical of Joe Biden's personnel. Right. His his public perception because he says that he stands for a woman he has all these policies that are four women. And for some reason he can't understand that putting his nose in someone's head is unlike a cool thing to do. And she says doesn't disqualify his bid for presidency. But I think for me the moment really changed when he started responding in his responses where these really half as like, they weren't even apologies. The. No, none. None of his responses. He say I am sorry about the fact that I meet someone feels so uncomfortable. And I think that that if it doesn't disqualify him. He does give me. Pause say good, his temperament is like he's obstinate in like doesn't really listen, and he just listened to merit certainly. I mean, the thing is I don't like the way it's being framed as allegations. They're not allegations. Yes seen him. Do it like a dozen times? It's more just a sort of a relic of this era in it's it's not just changing societal norms is just the norm. That's changed is that people are now willing to speak up when things create them out, which you know, it does kind of play into one negative thing about him in general. I mean, people might not make the connection with you need a hill thing, but it's this perturb. Journalists tick sort of attitude of like, oh, you gals looking at you know, like they're still kind of a condescending paternalistic quality to it. And yet he does grab men and he is grabby. And all those things I I don't think that it has to be either. It's he's disqualified or the people against him are all plotters try e you know, like this sort of conspiracy theories behind it's ridiculous to say, no, I mean, you'd have to be a real dummy to not know this is coming which worries me because he didn't seem to think it was coming. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think my I guess my problem she actually asks in the article like. At one point. She says we know like when this kind of thing happens, quote, who do you tell what do you say? And that's exactly my question. Like this thing happened. Did it need to be a media frenzy? Like, I don't know. I don't I'm kind of like is the media that you tell or is it the like is there another way that these things should be handled. Because at this point, I feel the the problem with the way they get covered is that you're right like we're calling them allegations. And they're just these things that happened that were like weird, and as she and as she said again, not sexual harassment. So so, but we're covering them as much as we cover anything that is allegations of sexual harassment. Right. So the so the problem with me is like, okay. So when something when when this is a when this is a thing is the media that you tell and then media. So my question to you guys slash me myself. And I is do you breathlessly cover this like, it's a huge big deal or do you, you know, relegate it to under the fold the internet's under fold too. I mean, you know, the there's a reason why this is what the referred to as the silly season. You know, I mean and not saying that I'm not saying, it's not important. But I'm saying that it's like it's the narrative this week. Do you know, obviously, like you're saying, you know, the way Biden has handled it has just turned us small story into a slightly larger story, but his lack of a adroitness if that's the right word. But you know, I I remember, you know, different see the movie quiz show. No good. You. Interesting question L. It's fantastic super good. But if anybody listening is there's a scene where? Charles van Doren whose Ray finds his character. When he's basically he's been cheating, and the the this FBI investigator, basically is warning. I'm like, hey, don't make me look asshole. Like, I'm gonna let you off here. But don't do something that makes me have to take you down in. That's sort of the way I felt like when Biden Biden about together in the race. It's come on, man. We all like you. Don't don't make us have to take you down. Because I don't want you to be president. I'll I'll support him at the end of the day if he makes it through. But he's not even in my top five, you know for me personally top five. Yeah. Recognition one. I mean. Yes, I mean, ask president Jeb Bush. How that goes? I mean, you just never know. It's just a lot of his name recognition and people have a lot people. Here's a lot of refracted light from Obama that really wasn't earned and a lot of ways. A lot of the things that were wrong with the Obama administration can be kinda traced to Biden's influence, in my opinion, the sort of going along with Republicans or trying to curry their favor for way too long in assuming that they were gonna come around because hey, Biden's got these relationships these friends with everybody in the Republicans took that, and they ran roughshod over Obama for six years, you know, based on the because this sort of couldn't collegial, hey, we're all friends at five o'clock such bullshit now. Well, now, it I mean, I think I think Biden has the part of the problem is that he did come from an era where where there was some compromise and they worked together. And I think and you would of course, you'd be like I was with these guys for decades. White House, and it'll be great like I'll have all that stuff settled. And and but also I do think he was just fundamentally more conservative before Obama and Obama it's not like Obama was like, you know, a left left wing liberal or anything himself. So, but he was at the time. It's certainly killings any yet. But compared to today like Obama was a fascist. But read that on a website. Dot com. Like, a member of the media. I will say that like if this essay had just come out about like one of the most beloved people ever, right? Who has no history like Oprah? I don't think that the media would have done much with it. Right. But the bit revealed something we already knew like the creepy. Uncle stereotype carrier, Joe Biden and had been around forever. He search on Getty images of like Joe Biden smell smelling. You know? And it's like you get dozens of photos that was his thing. And I think that the way he talks about his own merits and stuff is just like there's so much room to poke holes in his pocket seeing. So I think this essay the the way that it caught fire. I think was because there was just it was it was time to kind of call him out for not walking the walk, right? Yeah. I I hear that. No. I totally an again, it's like, I think people should be uncreditworthy. And I think that these men and women who are creepy should be told like, hey, that's weird. You shouldn't do things like that or whatever. And we've all too for for too long lived in a world where you sort of even when something isn't like sexually threatening. It's just weird. You're like tolerate it. Because you know, polite society, whatever I'll move on and off forget it. And so we're taught from a very young especially women to do that. And we have done that. I think one thing that bothers me a little bit is the heat. I guess I'm I'm upset for all of the older candidates. How ages everyone is about them being older? It's and how and I get. Prefix me. It makes me sad. Because I'm like, I don't know. What will this? You know? You know, like they've actually lived lie. You know, a lot of these people have lived a life of public service. And now, we're just gonna shit on them because they lived that life, and they have experienced you know, what I mean? It's just weird to me. The other thing is like when Biden says that the norms have changed. I think were where saying like, oh look at that old guy saying the norms has changed. Look he's so fucking disconnected from the to happening. However, the norms changed and not even in twenty years. They changed in two years like three years ago. This would not have been a story. It's only because in the last two years so like Pete Buddha. Judge who like is. You know, the youngest guy running. I think he could he could easily have a story like this from five years ago. You know what I mean? I think the stories are coming out this morning about he said all lives matter. I believe is still like it's coming for him to. But like the. The thing that really I have a I would love to get your about in the benefit of the down here. And I and it's true in the essay, I came out. I kind rolled my ising. Oh my gosh. Like, this is not even on the same level as Amy klobuchar throwing a binder, for instance, or anything like that. But his response is just it was just so lacking in an understanding of what it was that people were angry at him for. And then the fact that he kept kept saying like, you know, I really believe that politics is about a human connection. I'm really good. I'd like understanding what humans want and reaching out to them and connecting on them in an emotional level. Never mind all the women all level who believe that. My human connection was gross and creepy. Yeah. They don't really count is. Like, if you really understand a human connection, you don't smell people's heads. Right. And so it's. It's it's connecting with you. It's not me getting a connection from you. It's I'm going to connect onto you. The theme of my connection to me that was even like more annoying than smelling or whatever or like someone described that he put his hand on their shoulder. And then the hand moved onto their back or whatever it's kind of like, I mean, I like that's not really what bothers me actually about these things like as as the, you know, someone who didn't experience them from Joe Biden, but from many many, many other men in my life. What bothers me is the belittling nature of it. Right. Is that paternalistic thing that you were kind of getting at Christian where it's like oh young lady. You're just a little legislator in Nevada. And that is like, you know, I think two door. Yeah. And that's something that is something that is. I mean, probably also a little more generational rate. Because he is older. She was younger. He was like, oh my God. I've been there. And you know, let me tell you sweetheart it gets, you know, there's a like, but I think in a way that I think any older man would do it to a younger person like regardless of sex, and it's especially irritating. You know to a woman because it's like everything is belived. You know, it's like the whole this series of decades where instead of calling someone your administrative assistant, whatever you just be like have my girl. Do it up front. You know, and it would be like a forty five year old woman. So yeah, that's what all of those things Harkin to and I find upsetting. I mean, I think you're right. I mean, obviously things are changing at such a rapid place and also Twitter specifically is such a constant churning like pot where something gets thrown into it. You know, whatever the the chum is for that day. And it just gets spun around and regurgitated and argued about two to where you know, when people say it all the time Twitter isn't life, which you know, is a cliche, but you do have to remind yourself of just the effect that being on Twitter. A lot can have on you in the way, you process events that you know, I don't know what his response could have been that would have just shut it down immediately. Because if he had just said, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It'd been like, oh my God, Joe Biden's, a weakling. I just you know, it might have been different people tweeting about it. But I actually think that there was a really clear apology that he have done immediately afterwards. I the story came out on Friday. He could have done this on Saturday. You could've apologized to her like literally just called her up on the phone. I'm really sorry and Anita hill to this day. She's like whenever the doorbell rings in our house. She's always she has a family joke. She's like said Joe Biden coming to apologize. She said so many times I want to apologize to her. I feel like I know her apology and he's never once apologized directly to her. So he didn't apologize. And then in the apology. He could have said, you know, I've I've always thought that me being touchy feely was something that was an asset. Clearly like, people are not like don't don't think about in the same way. And I'm really sorry for misreading in this. I will change it and Paul you should. Stop talking about it. I know you're right now that would have been a nice one that would have been a nice one. I think it would have landed quite well like. Said of like think of the other stuff that he was trying to say about norms changing you leave that to the podcasters to talk about? And then you just say the simple thing. And I think in general all of the apologies need to be very much shorter. Like for all of the things that happen. I don't understand people who can't just say. I'm sorry. Yeah. Like, I mean, whether you mean it or not that's a different conversation. But what is so I can't speak. I'm sorry. Like, why is that difficult? And I feel bad. I'm sorry about an action. I did right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I mean, you know, like when you think of me remember the the controversy over what? But oh Rourke said about his wife being the sole caretaker chasing the kids, and I help out sometimes sometimes which was the most mild thing. I was like why are we? So I don't know. He's running for president like, yeah. Probably not there on an hourly basis. It's weird. I don't know that whole thing struck me is like ver- like, but you know, what he had to go into apology. And I think in his, you know, and he said a lot of things the way I'm gonna talk about women that whatever. And and it was just like I think he has to sail these things because he doesn't fundamentally understand what he did wrong. And I think in that case it was like harder to understand what? So I I all allow it in Biden's case. I think there's an element of like guys. Can we just like remember things so different? And it's like everyone should have known better. Yes. You know, everyone should have known better. But like in terms of norms in terms of like, what was around us. Did better. I get frustrated with people that. You know, it comes to. I'm sorry. I'm being a little vague. It comes to elements of of, you know, racial privilege and things like that. Can we just look at it that it was like pollution? It was in the air. We were all breathing it, it's just that's the world. We were living in in. So the you don't have to it's not some personal defeat for you right now that you were genuine racist attitudes, you'd homophobic attitudes. We were all living in that era and being highlighted. Yeah. Even though we were all, but but acknowledge it and say, oh, yeah. I did these things I wish I hadn't I'm going to be different moving forward. You know, I feel like so many scandals right now because the Kevin Hart scandal is similar where he made a bit about, you know, or. Yeah. Stand up it's an tweets or whatever. You know, kind of about the gay community in using gay as kind of a punch line and all that stuff. And again, it was like I mean, the number of people who did that it was it was in the air. It was pollution. We were all just brimming. Obviously there's a spectrum that exists at any given time. And you know, there certainly are murder was just what we did back. Then. No. But like, I think one of the things he was saying in his standup. It is like are in T. I don't know if it was on Twitter and his standup it where he's like if my son ever does acts. I'm gonna tell them. No, that's gay. You know, and I never would have said that. But there certainly was a period of time where I wouldn't have blinked at somebody else saying, you know, what I mean? So it's like my spectrum. I don't think I ever would just call out somebody for being gay. But I certainly laughed at the Eddie Murphy bit about aids in Eddie Murphy, delirious when I was a kid. I thought that was hilarious. Like, oh, you stick your dick in and blows up now like whatever that sorry. There was like hugely ridiculously homophobic a bit on anyway glares, which is like in my lizard, brain DNA things. I find funny. You know, I I mean, I can try to convince myself that I didn't find that funny. But I did because that's the world. Yeah. Yeah. That was eight so okay. Well, we'll close this out. But asking Connie, what do you think? Now that he didn't give your eloquent apology. What should happen to him? What is the punishment? Well, I mean, he should just keep doing what he's doing. Right. And I mean, do you think you should like not run basic? Oh, no. Well, he's he's still thinking about right wasn't announced. He hasn't announced. But I really think he needs to do a kind of a come to Jesus moment. If he really does understand the culture that we're in the country that were India does say that he understands, but it's very clear that he doesn't get at least one important. And I think like a you're willing to give him another apology chance. I think no. He needs a drop is it's clear that he he won't move on from this like he just needs to continue doing whatever. But I think there's a lot of things that are very important in his history and his political history. Shutt- explain that he needs to explain I think that this controversy bubbled all those things up to the surface in the media needs to dig in on those. And I mean to me consistency on duct with, you know, Wall Street and financial institutions is long aids. More explanation. Granted I'm not a woman. But it's like no I is more of a red flag. I agree. That's yes. Okay. You guys. Well, you know, we'll see we'll see motherfucker even announces mugging presidency aspirations. We'll see. Okay. You know, what we'll do right now, though, you guys we'll take a quick break. So that we can hear about our sponsors. You know? Yes. Right. The best part of the show is the sponsor. So that and then when we come back, we'll talk about. Are you looking for well-made close with no hidden agenda? I think you should be trying packed up. Herrell packed makes incredibly soft clothing for the whole family what they comfortable amount of transparency they use one hundred percent organic cotton, another sustainable materials, and they don't use toxic dyes. 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Because right now, the right wing pundits are constantly demonizing her, and it's only a matter of time before they have the kind of Benghazi her over something. This is a oh, see. And my question for you guys is how and why exactly she's so famous like what happened? Why is this an an AO see explosion? Well, I think one of them porn reasons is she's very online extremely online. I think is what the kids call it. Right. She is so good at the Twitter and the Instagram the kids don't call it the Twitter. But she when she's doing thing, you it's very clear that she's actually using her thumbs to type in the thing. Right. When you see like Kamla Harris finger. Yeah. It's definitely indicted tried to come get myself to do the thumbs. I'm sure I'm better with the index finger my fingers are too fat immed- pointy. Three times because my thumbs are so fat. But I I I don't even know how you do. Like, it's millennials don't have point to your thumbs. I don't think this is a generation. Thing like over hundreds of years, whether that will sort of be a human mutation now that people just incredibly. Darnold, Darwin is vomiting and his grave, you guys Connie, but you were saying, yeah, it's very good that she's writing her own tweets and his really coming from her. But I think the real reason that she so captivating is she saying thing that we don't typically hear from our candidates, but we hear a lot from just the other people that we're talking about talking to in our in our normal day to day lives. Right. That's something is fundamentally broken with the way that we make money and do business something's really broken about our earth and times taking and then the way that we treat our most vulnerable people in this world, that's that's broken too. And so we have to fix those things we're going to fix small things, and she's saying that over and over and over again in a way, that's really clear in human being language and she's doing where we are which is online. Yeah. I mean, she doesn't she. It's kind of like, you know, I, I don't know. I remember sometimes when I'd watch like Chapelle show and it. Would seem so funny in so f- ler effortlessly funny, which like why why isn't everything this funny? Like what you know, it should be easier. Like when you hear her speak. You're like, yeah. That's exactly it. Like, there's no bullshit. It doesn't sound like political speak is stunned normal smart person saying things that are true. Yeah. And it's it's so bizarre that that is refreshing. But it is, you know, it's just seems completely effortlessly, you know, a representation of the world as I see it as how I feel and certainly I bet if I were to matchup issued issue she's to the left of me uncertain things, but not most of it. And even the stuff that I would disagree with with. I appreciate her clarity. Vision. I actually, you know, the one of the things that I feel like because she has an we're going to talk about influencers in the next segment, but she has kind of influence or power, right? I mean, she's got I don't know three million Twitter, followers or something like that. And and she managed to get. I think the word out about Amazon, and how this could you know, how they're getting this government bailout or not bailout, whatever you call it. What are they going to the break? Heartbreak. I mean thing money they wanted to. And and and so she really highlighted that issue. And I think it, you know, it made a lot of politicians go go against him. And then ultimately Amazon pulls out, but then again, one of those really like complicated issues that I don't think is a quit. You know, like an AO see bullet point it doesn't fit into that narrative neighborhood. And I think that people don't understand how pretty unified the feelings against it were in that neighborhood city. Yeah. I think you're right. And I think that people don't understand that really. Nobody else gets vote. No, not even long. I'll say they got vote. But I mean, Long Island city was not happy with it. And then, you know, then the city kind of was a little late to the party like, oh, we had no idea that all these people are gonna be upset about this. And so they started trying to go back to Amazon being like, okay? Can you do XYZ? Amazon was like no fuck you were Amazon. But I live my life like, it's a more complicated issue. Like when when AFC sometimes I, you know, comes out with with these things like you're not getting the full like, it's it it's fits nicely into a narrative, that's anti-corporate. But it's not clear like what about the job creation? What about the residual? You know, what I mean, there's there's there's other economic if anybody out there is wondering why the just very concisely New York, specifically city does not have jobs crisis that does a housing crisis. And so that's why everybody was like fuck this. No, no, no. I I'm playing devil's advocate here anyways. But I'm saying if people listening wonder why because I think a lot of people that I were talked to was like, why would you want five thousand jobs as never system, and those people those jobs aren't going to people who are somehow moving to New York from somewhere else. There are people who work at other large financial. So it's just moving the jobs around really and people live there. We'll have to move. Yeah. So okay. But getting back on track here. But a oh, see. Now, here's an interesting. So thirty one percent of Americans have a favorable impression of her a forty one percent unfavorable in the same poll found that her popularity increased with Democrats and non whites. So, but I think now the interesting thing is like with this kind of fame also comes like, she's a punching bag on the right? Do you feel like it's almost like too much pressure on a person who's got her first full time job? Basing how well she's handling crazy. How long it's going to be for she snaps and does something. I mean, you never see a photograph where she kind of looks like this the pressure is wearing on her at all. I always, you know, in all of the posts and that the union she looked awfully depressed. I would do. But I think she's also a child of the, you know, the internet as much younger than all of her. Peers she grew up knowing what online bullying was like her mentions were ruined from the very beginning. This isn't like an additive stress. I mean, it's probably is I I have no idea what I'm sure all of our brains in some way, but you know, but she's so much more used to this than anyone else. You know? It's like it. And it's also like you said Twitter is not the real world right cable TV is not the real world. And I think that she's actually probably connecting with real world people in a way that might surprise. You know us in the room or a son the on the coast FOX FOX doesn't understand like they think like, oh what a what a ridiculous buffoon. This lady is an in in people. Listen to like, I think she's actually pretty smart. Right. Well, the other thing that I you know, there's a lot of focus on her Instagram and how effortless she is at that stuff. And but I also don't want to forget that she actually was a boots on the ground campaigner. I mean, she was a flesh, you know? Pressing palms kind of campaigner. And I think that's real, you know, I think that's why she won and in in in, you know, in such diverse like district children for second because my wife, and I own a business. Well, my wife owns it's our money is for place q story, which is a great place goes comedy, lovely performance venue, and that's in her district and in. So she actually did a fundraiser are not even a fundraiser. She showed up an event at Q E D spoke for fifteen minutes, or whatever. And I was not personally there for that. But I saw video of it. And it's amazing. But I did see her right after she beat Joe Crowley in the primary. There was we went to the families keep families together the March remember all the marchers. The family separation marches, and we went to the one in corona queens, which she spoke at at the beginning. And at the end, and this was kind of right as their stars. The beginning to rise in both circa because the video I saw Cutie. And also when I saw her personally, she just has a way of saying things that you remember in very quickly. Like, you know, she when I watched her at that March I in this was back before the whole brouhaha got crazy. I remember thinking to myself I could follow this person. Like, I could be a soldier for this person. Because this person has a clarity of ideology that I just don't have myself. And I admire and she spoke for about ten minutes. And she said like three things that were like actionable in simple, you know. She was like, you know, you might be wondering if you're like a white person in New York like what can you do with all these ice crackdown? Do all what can you do? And she's like, you know, go to your neighbors who are immigrants. You know, let them know give them your phone number. Let them know that you're around for them. And I was like that's a great simple actionable thing. And so right from the get-go, I think the more people. Are exposed to were the more. They're going to realize that the absurd caricatures are just that. Sorry. I've talked to a long time. And I think well, okay. So she so she represents something. That's like, let's say the most left. We've had an American politics, right? And I guess Bernie. But but again, she's younger. I think even further to the left that she's a card carrying member of the DSP the democratic socialists of America. Right. Right. So do you. So I guess I wonder does her popularity further alienate moderates to to the Democratic Party. Like we like is. I mean popular such a weird thing because we don't know who's faulted is that you know, someone is in the media constantly. I mean, but, but, but what do you worry that like Ma that it be it kind of takes the democrat. So far left that moderate who are not an incident there are she voting block are sort of turned off it kind of splinter the party in that way. Yes. Probably. I also don't really care. I don't think it's care either. Yeah. I like the kind of diversity of thought and opinion within one party. And it doesn't seem like it's contained to to just the coast the liberal coast. Right. You know, I I'm from Minnesota. It's a traditionally voted democrat. But it is also fairly conservative state. We actually did a story about the rise of socialists in Minnesota. And there's a ton of them and after ABC was elected their membership doubled. You know, and the the people who like her say they like her for the same reasons that you like she saying things and really clear way that they're they can't believe the no one else is saying and the values that she really assesses the talks about is very working class. And that is the majority of America, you know, and she's looking out for everyone. No matter what their background is ethnic background. It's also twenty first century working class. We have this idea. I think the idea that there's like one speck, by the way Twitter for century working class is like. It's the gig economy. Don't think of the gig and companies working class hard hat. Into a, you know, a coal mine, then you're not working class act. At one point said, the Konami is just another way for people not to get health insurance or something like what she said. But, but essentially, we don't because we're we're, you know, again, the most fucking ridiculous thing about American society is that our fucking health insurance is tied to our work. It is the most ridiculous in just nonsensical thing that I've ever anyway point is. I think I think it is a new work. You're right. You're working your of quote, unquote. Fulltime freelance just hilarious, which is the most absurd. It has salting, you know term, but we've all just kind of accepted that and then you have somebody come along. And be like, oh, yeah. This is kind of bullshit. And I think also it's a generational. I think moderates of a certain age might be turned off by somebody like else. But I think that for people who grew up after the Cold War. They just don't have those same associations with that word when they hear socialism, they think of Norway. They don't think of you know, plus, they've got great branding the. But I've lost my train of thought. I'm sorry. I I guess I mean, I think the other thing I guess people might say is, okay. So she's got these these proposals like the green new deal and they put him in there. So far to the left that it forces like in the Senate when Mitch McConnell brought it up for a vote a bunch of Democrats to vote present because they didn't want to take position on. It also suggested she all she gave the backing for them to do that. She's like this is trying to lay a trap on us. So just vote. Right. Right. Right. No. And I, you know, and that's charitable, you know, what I mean that she she's recognizes that, but do you? I mean, do you worry that some of these things are just to get like to reckless, you know, because it forces people to make take a position because everyone now has to take a position on what she says. Or doesn't say. Yeah. Do you know what I mean, she's become that kind of voice liberals. It's our nature to worry. Whether we're going to far, but I also think there's a power in just saying what you actually believe in wanna do that has a fucking reaction. You know, we make fun of people on the right all the time. I certainly do. But they just they just take their crazy ideas. And they go for them, you know, and and we, you know, the tea party did move things to the right? You know? And so if this is what it takes to kind of move the. The Overton window. But you know, there is a power in guests. Are you going to lose some moderates, quote, unquote, moderates, perhaps, but I also think you're getting it a lot of people that will come out and vote because they actually feel like there's, you know, people speaking truth finally as opposed to just like, oh, this is just a shell game. Liberals. They give off a week. Pursue. There's there's obsession of them as being weak in wishy washy Manby, Pam Pammy because they're constantly trying to calibrate their beliefs. Like will will this be acceptable thing to say what you want to say what you want. Yeah. Well, it's interesting because I think there is an element of say what you want from the from AFC from Illinois Elmer from Rasheed to leave. The they're kind of like the stores the lady stars of the Democratic Party. And and I think it's what's interesting about it from a media standpoint is like the media almost covers them because they know they're the perfect bait for the right wing. You know, because they know this is going to play. Well, it's it's strange. It's almost like on purpose that the that these women are the people you wanna fight again. You elevate it. I'm not saying that the right, but you yeah. You elevate the people that are just going to be click bait. So that you can then report on the thing having been clicked baited. So so it's like, we're I guess we're feeding into this vicious cycle somehow. And I think it's wonderful to celebrate these women. I I think it's really amazing how they're all handling the pressure and all of them because they're all doing pretty well with it in have been in multiple St., you know, ranging from like notable too stupid online scandals or whatever. So I feel like can I mention the elephant in the room. I think one of the reasons she's incredibly popular is that she is like so charismatic and also really beautiful than certainly does not hurt. It certainly she. No. And the thing is I know she knows that she's beautiful, and she doesn't try to hide behind it. You know, like she. She doesn't dress doughty. She doesn't. He wears her red lipstick in her beautiful, earrings and gino's on talk shows. And she's like, yeah. I know I'm hot you guys are so obsessive me. Yeah. I mean, there's all upset with Dave. Gave whatever right because I mean, it's okay. You really is created in a lab for like lazy journalists? She's a content generator. Yeah. Yeah. She's a content generator. No. Yeah. Also, did I look at the shade of lipstick that she wears a did. I looked at it. I decided against it. It was too dark from me. Exactly. For me. Oh, yes. Have a certain, you know, complexion. I think for to work, but she gets that like to be a politician these days, you have to also kind of be a celebrity, and like not be ashamed of putting yourself out there as a celebrity, and I know so much about AO see. Yeah. And I think I know more about her personality than about her policies, Holly. But I don't mind. No, she is. She is like the list ical congresswoman, you know, what? I mean, you know, whatever there's like up to back it up. Totally things China come. I'm trying to come up. Look at it from the perspective of people on the right and even in the middle like what the fuck you guys with this one woman. I mean, one of the things that that I do love about her. But you know, that she's because she doesn't have to do a lot of these donor calls. She's able to do a lot of research and go to lot of these hearings where she's one of the few people there because she's not on the phone for four hours. They ask them for money. But on the flip side, it's a little bit of hot girl privilege. It's not. But I'm saying, that's maybe reductive. Do you know what I mean? It's like some some that's how they may mean girls into a movie because that thing not she's not a meager. But I'm saying like there is you get shit. You got to get away with shit. She gets so much tension. Like, if I'm some fifty two year old and not just also but being from New York City, which is a media hub, you know, in being even just on the east coast where she can go back and forth. Like, she was like I gotta get back to when she was doing the Chris hall. Chris Hayes townhall. She was saying I gotta get back to my district every week because grounds me like, well, that's kind of not everything is privileged. But that's like eastern seaboard. All right. Well, if I'm if I'm a Representative from Oregon, it's like, well, that's not really an option for me. You know, it's funny because a Representative Mark Po-Chun who was the co-chair of the congressional progressive caucus and co sponsor of the green new deal. He actually said in we read this really long kind of profile in time about AFC this week. And he said in that quote was quoted in that article saying you could go a day without writing a story about a o c. Yeah. I mean, that's a little bit of one if eels like, right? But luckily, we're not here. I know, but like, she's cool. Honest, I school, and I would totally be a soldier for her as well other bands that were in the early nineties other than Nevada that doesn't mean Nevada wasn't great. Just because they got too much exposure. And they became can. Believe you just pulled that off. I am in my forties. It's amazing. All right. You guys let us move on. It will you know, what though before we move on people fake nation. What do you guys think of us star of the democratic party's star making hit me up on all of the platforms that I try to use as a deputy as a see. Okay. We're gonna move on to dubbing number three. Dashing are entering season seventeen of their show keeping up with the Kardashians. Their moguls in every sense with the family spinning their influence into fashion makeup music, festivals diet drinks, other TV shows and even novelty socks you guys. I guess this is another. I have a pair of rob socks their face. Do you? Really? Okay. Yes. I mean, it's the company is not his company, but right with them. He into it. Socks. Stop designer everyone has to have a job. Why I guess my let's just sitting there with the sketch pad. Poca tongue. Maybe the to- like, let's make a tow longer. A lot of innovation and sock design. I just got two words for you sixth toe. Thank Dr national obsession with sock design. Why are the Kardashians? So huge. I think because I thought this is what I thought after whatever point that was in our nation's history when everyone was talking about Kim Kardashian. I thought that it was going to die down and she's going to turn into like just one of those like Paris Hilton. Right. He was like famous for awhile. And then we forgot about her. You know, but that is exactly not what happened not only. Did it not happen? It ended up extending to absolutely everyone in her family. And then you know, and just kind of radiating outwards like like, a an an Kylie Jenner named Forbes magazine top forty no young novice billionaire your self made billionaire, which is a little gag rule. We'll talk about that. We'll talk about why that's gag reflex. But why did the thing I thought was going to happen? I because the world is worse than you. I actually love the car dash as an I I'm so fascinated by the rise and their fame. I think they did something phenomena. Well, I think they realized something before everyone else did which is their image has currency in a way, and they're able to monetize their image in a way that no one's ever been able to do that before even like celebrities from two thousand ten before they always had a thing that they were good at right? Like there had a skill. They could sing I don't know could make clothes for Mary Kay nationals, and you could actually make clothes. But for Kim. She knew that like her draw was literally what she looked like in that. She took a good photo. And then people like looking at that photo. And the fact that they've been able to spin that fame and celebrity off into so many ways, it's it. Influence are kind of like. Yeah, performance art because if you actually look at their business performance art suggests a craft and this is not a craft image making performance and. Art trail that they have actually released spectacular taste like that. Yeah. To be able to realize oh, the winds are shifting this way. Everyone's going to be painting their faces on the and this this kind of waste we're gonna make all the products for people to paint their faces or body. Con stuff is gonna come back. You know, we're all going to be dressing in these flesh, toned, whatever the things are that Kim is doing and and she was able to call that years before. But if you look at young people. I wanna be influencers, right? There are people who want to be YouTube celebrities or Instagram celebrities, and you ask them like what is the message that you're the that you have what is the things that you have to say that no one else will say, but then other questions what it is. They can't answer that there yet has nothing to do with their influence. They just want to be influential without it fluency a thing for people in because it's funny to me a little bit like I feel so untouched by the car dashing ins, like I'm that like, I'm like, the we'll wilderness refuge that it hasn't been developed on when it comes to the card actually because I watched exactly one episode of the show at some point years ago. I thought it was boring. Oh my God. So boring. I was like oh this won't last. This is the most boring thing, I was just completely wrong. And I am not privy to the stuff that they promote. I don't follow them on Instagram. I just don't care. I want walked into a mimic McNally Jackson's one of our independent booksellers New York City, and I picked up her book, which I didn't I didn't realize I just picked it up and started flipping through. And I was like who is this woman realize I was looking at Kim Kardashian fucking selfie book. And I wanted to kill myself, but it was nicely designed which isn't why the layout the whole thing like kind of gorgeous. And I was like motherfucker I was pulled into this orbit for twenty five seconds. I can't believe it. So it's weird to me as someone who's been so untouched by them that they control so much. Here's an example, Snapchat, lost one point three billion dollars in value. After Kylie tweeted quote. So does anyone else not open Snapchat anymore? Or is it just? Me a this is so sad. So she tweeted Bill, instead, whatever it, oh, she tweeted that. And and snatcher has loses one point three billion dollars in value. That's unfunny. And believable. I mean, I wonder I wonder if sometimes people mistake shamelessness for genius, you know? And I I don't mean that this is obviously a I'm a I'm a dude of a certain generation I don't claim to. I'm not one of these kids are idiots. But I think that sometimes people wrote them off like we did. So quickly initially that the fact that they've had staying power people have maybe try to overcompensate by talking up their genius. That were as a lot of you know, like, oh, well, they're billionaire. So clearly they must be geniuses. And I just didn't realize it. It's like, well, I think a lot of a lot of a lot of it was planted some lining, they were the right people to come along and a certain time in the shifting media landscape. But also, it's like. You don't look at like a guy who sells guns to African warlords and say, wow, what a genius meet like what a gene is. He's just willing to do things. Other people aren't willing to do. It's the same argument that people will use about Donnie because they'll be like, oh, he's a genius. And I think most of what he does is accidental or out of spite I don't think there's like strategic planning behind it. And you know, an and so many people walk around saying that he's a genius. I think Hollywood did us a real disservice over the past fifty years of trying to convince us that conmen were geniuses like that that heist movies and let the staying and stuff, and you know, oceans eleven no the thing that distinguishes, a conman is shamelessness is that they're just willing to lie and not feel awkward about it. I'm willing to give you that. If they they're not still popular, right? It's like they were incredibly shameless in especially in the beginning to be able to spin a sex tape into show like that was very shameless. Very shapeless. Maybe sounds a little more or Listrik. I don't even I just mean that it's like unencumbered. Well, I think the reality show was like they gave access to Ryan seek. Kristof film, everything that's that was unheard of there like every single family fight that we have a really embarrassing thing that we do like, you can film it like nudity film it like, that's that's shameless. Right. But the fact that they've been able to take like keep doing that shamelessness, and then keep making money off of them when you actually look at their business like the business and that interesting, but they're able to make so much money off of it. There has to be a genius there in the genius might not be Kim or Courtney or any of her sisters. I think it's Chris. Oh, yeah. Mom, original shamelessness is her because she was like, I guess knowing that our daughter had a sex tape and okay with amplifying the message that there was self tape. Maybe shameless. Exactly the right word because I don't necessarily mean it in a completely judgmental term, and this is gonna sound overly sexualize. And so I had stayed Sade against women. But it's almost like conquering your gag reflex. Do you know what? I mean, there's something. So that sounds like, sexist, homophobic, or whatever. But there's something like if you're just. Completely full of shit in most people there's a point where it kicks in. Where you just you're barest how full of shit you're being how ridiculous and self centered or whatever there's something in us that makes us want to be like, okay, I'm being gross right now. And if you can get through that and conquer it, then the world is your voice ter-. And I think Trump is a perfect example. But yeah, it works for some people. But the businesses that they have spun off of their celebrity that gives them more money and more celebrity. It's like a very interesting. Yes cycle that happened. Right. They're not that great of businesses. Right. And they keep dying and the getting resurrected in various different forms Trump. Right. Brandon. It's it's. Branding without substance behind it does alternately fail, right? Like with. I'm saying businesses. What's remaining is the brand is is a, you know, the logo, but like, it's not particular lipstick, or, you know, minimum some or Trump like a particular hotel or golf club or doesn't stay. Yeah. Think that they're creating these businesses with any sort of feeling that there's going to survive ten care. They're not interested in that way. This thing for fun because of the moment and then five years later, we're going to spin off to something else. Like push is a new web lifestyle lifestyle website that corden credential just launched I think the sweets the grossest word of ever heard in my life. Nickname for her daughter. Pu also tubes. It's to the whole thing is there's a it's religious. I won't say what it reminds me of. I mean, I mean, we we all we all know what it, but apparently does our businesses with doubles os. And their names are more successful than business out them. Google goop yahu also. It's so much. Are you making that apper? That's the thing. It's a thing. It's a bona fide think Gwyneth Paltrow heard when she founded goop. Oh my God. So but everyone thought to be Christian foon again. Christian band. Oh. I think everyone thought that it was gonna be innovative because she was said it was going to be where it's going to do something with media that we in before it is exactly the same thing that we've songwriting over and over again, and that's the same thing with like their makeup lines. Right. The sock line is, you know, very particular every single business that they create as just sort of like another one of the same thing. But it sells out, but okay. But their fans are not they're not eighty. It's it's not like, they don't realize these are not great business. Right. How does it? Keep looking into all the benefit of the town. Well, I'm sure there's some idiot sprinkled in amongst. Okay, there are idiots. Yeah. However, they're not all I mean, it's like would you order a lipstick in your Lega? This actually makes my lips dry or whatever it is like you're not like gonna be duped again or pushed again, again, I know, but then there's another Lipson. There's another list that they'll release and it's a different formula. And you're like, we'll we'll may you know. So you'll buy it again. And you're like, okay. Well, I won't buy lipsticks from him anymore. But I might do it from other question that I have is about what is their response. I mean, we put it's just frustrating. We put these in there. No, the only influence was right there. So many people that get lots of money for an Instagram post, and that we're like in one instance here, and I can't remember which of the Kardashian was promoting one of these meal replacement thing actually the, and and and it's it's a responsible, right? Because you know, there's there's a critic of their online who when they post when he's meal replacement things or diet drink things or whatever are like you're not talking about all the things you do to actually lose weight. The, you know, the diet that you're on the the personal chef the the, you know, personal trainer the all of that stuff. Like, you're just me. No putting hope in people's hearts that they'll? By this drink and lose weight, or whatever. And it's not, you know, it's unethical of you to do that to kajillions followers. Do you feel like they have a moral responsibility. Will I personally think they do? But they're response to that. I think it was Jamila Jameel from the good place who she's sort of a controversial figure on Twitter. She always does that. And she's one of the most beautiful women on the planet. And she says that she suffers from body just morphine all these things. Yeah. The way she talks about bodies. Interesting interesting, but aren't actions. Like, why would you say no to easy money? They're like, it's one post and a million dollars. Why would you say no to easy money? And I think that that way of thinking is really attractive to a lot of people who don't have a lot of money. They're like a course. But yeah, I know, but I guess it's funny. It's it's it's again, it's the Trump thing of like. Charity. We're we really we're we say, oh my God. Like look at this. Great quality. Obviously also being honest about it, and you know, like admitting that it's easy money emitting that all that stuff. It's like we like that. They're not ethical. That's weird to me like every generation is a reaction to the generation that preceded it. And I I think a lot of this is a reaction to my generation, and I come from sort of a mindset of like credibility, and, you know, around don't sell out and all those things, and I think younger people for a long time. I think people my age, we're like these kids are idiot. They don't know that they're selling out. And then I think they're like, no, no, no this whole idea of like integrity. Like, I get it. I'm just not interested in it. It's not it's not that as an insult. That's your baggage fresh not my baggage trying to pay my rent. Integrity when your pockets are right. When you have forty thousand dollars in student. It was easy for me to have credibility like tamp. Temp jobs were ample like I am. When I was twenty three I could get a job anytime I wanted to be so as easy to kind of be above stuff. Well, so here's my question to close with is like just this whole idea of influencers. I mean, it's obviously really tied to social media Bubba. Do you think this is a phase that we're going through as a human race influencers? Or is that gonna you know, or is is is it just the way it's going to be forever. It's a portal to whatever's next. I don't think that it's going to go back. I don't think it's going back. I will say though, the cover letters that I get from people applying for like NGO level jobs or refinery twenty nine there's been an increasing amount of them where their objective has shifted from like to be to be journalists. It used to be like to be a journalist to be a fashion enter to be a whatever. And now it's just to be influential or like to make a difference or to inspire people like me, you know, and his that an objective or is that a consequence of the the skill that you've expertise that you have. And I always ask that question when I see it. I'm like is there a difference to you? It just doesn't seem to have penetrated. They're just like why do I why does one have to come before the other because influencial I will be able to have expertise. Slater. And it's a different way that, you know, this new generation is thinking, and I have to give the credentials a lot of credit for influencing that influencing whatever the play the problem is or a problem is is that conman again getting back to are the most easily conned people in the world, I I have a relative who passed away who was a bit of a Griffin, and she was constantly kind of people out of money in situations and taken, but she was also the biggest sucker for any sort of online scams. Of course. Of course person because people who are considering themselves to be influencers, or in my opinion, conman, or whatever they're always trying to figure out if they're getting over on you. So they don't realize that they're being gotten over on. And I think a lot of these people who like they wanna be influencers. Those are the people who are buying all the car dash. They don't realize that they're the ones being influenced. They're not the ones I met a friend of mine. One in meet him, meet their like, a younger relative wanted to potentially kind of go into entertainment. She was like nineteen and she was going to like a cattle call type situation. And and I was like, yeah. What questions you have about? You know, I assume she was going to be like like where to you. You know, do what studio did you study? And like, you know, those kinds of just like craft questions, and she was just m- specifically more interested in how to be famous as I was like, wait. So is or you is the acting like maybe like are you interested in that? Like, I know you're that's what you're doing. But it it was one of these just like to become famous and in. It's it I every look every generation has people wanna be famous corporations because are they are perfectly willing to let. Young people fight over re tweets while they keep all the money. You go ahead and try to be influential will we'll take the dollars. Thank you know. Exactly. Okay. So so I guess I don't know where at least stuck with influencers for the foreseeable future. Oh, yeah. All right. Great. Louis me to want to jump off a bridge. But I also think what's weird about all of that is I'm I'm very not very susceptible. I'm like so skeptical of every anytime, I feel people selling me, I am like I add ago of just us as up to all. So I feel like it didn't. I mean, these influencers exist a furrow world of people that aren't me like, I just don't feel the pressure whatever I like to think, I guess. Oh, well, can I offer a little bit of a caveat thing? I think that a lot of people who like the Kardashians are also they think that the Kardashians are scamming big corporations. Like they are. They are not the very boring vanilla like tied with a bow sort of like old way of doing things that old celebrity industrial complex. They are in on the scam. So when they see them getting a million dollars from like, fifty or whatever they're like, of course, Fatiha garbage. But they got a million dollars for them. You know, we're never going to buy this stuff. So like ha ha jokes on fifteen. Not non right, right? Right. I see. Yeah. I think there are a lot savvier. Then we might give them credit for. Okay, obvious. Exactly the word. I think more than. Yes. Different metric, totally. Okay. So you guys that's the end of the show. How do you feel feel warm and caffeinated now? You were drinking coffee during the course here. Thanks so much for doing the show as you're having us. I want for the people of fake the nation to be able to follow you and just by all that you're influencing. So where would they follow your influence? I'm on Instagram at con con wing and on Twitter, Connie wing, if that's clear. Yes. That was really really clear. I'm also at com com winning. I am on yield Twitter at Christ Finnegan decision. I've regretted. Too many on that handle you gotta stick with it. No, it was it was my old AOL Email address. I remember which I still have. Though, I try to Email. I have a g males. Well dressed. But but I'm pretty much just on Twitter. I'm I decided to scrim so at Christ vinegar, that's how I feel about tick tock. Yeah. I've heard about that you guys know where to find me and all things oh, really be great, though is if you wanted for us for the webby awards by going to bit Lee that T L Y slash F T N webby, so bitterly slash F T N webby. And then you could just pick the nation in the news and politics category for the webbie's in the pipe cast section. Twenty minutes that took twenty minutes. We literally have to cut parts of the show out. So that I could just explain the voting of this fucking thing. You guys thank you so much, and you know, who else should be thanked. So very much. It's the people who make this show happen that our producer Harry Nelson. Our audio engineer Jared, O'Connell Alterra theme music lily fleshler helps with research, and you guys we love hearing your feedback. I've been getting topics in emails, actually. And I love that. I'm thinking of how to incorporate some of these topics than getting an Email, so send us more at the nation dot com or you can leave a voicemail at three or four seven seven seven zero four nine eight one. Also, a couple of people have been sending me recommend suggestions for guests. Take all these series. We read them hardly. And we would we'd like to incorporate them into the show. So thank so much for sending those guys and please keep them coming. You guys are so great, and I will talk to y-. Next week. You. Let's take a photo. Please. Had the. But I wanna like talk about the problems. I want to talk about an issue. I can I say also you Gordon, I'm KC Charles. And this is the problem with the problem with Charles Casey each week. Guess we'll bring us a problem. They're having their life while we unpack it reflect on it. And generally talk shit. I season will be helping solve the problems of guest like Louie Anderson. I wanted read bution because I'm from a big family. So you have to don't you don't you have to get back people's Jessica Williams, I'm gonna laugh you're gonna cry. I was. And Chelsea Peretti comedy. Actually, didn't know goes in and out. It's really effortlessly funny. Listen to the problem with Charlton Casey starting Monday, April. I only on your will.

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