12 Episode results for "Poynter Institute"

Baybars rsek on Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Fact-Checking

The Lawfare Podcast

44:12 min | 1 year ago

Baybars rsek on Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Fact-Checking

"The fact checking organization covers if not equally but at least fairly each political party or you know candidate with the courage and it doesn't mean that. They need to have a false balance in the aerobics. But at least what we have been asking from. Our assessors is that the organization are never if they want to be certified if and if they want to be in the network stain in they have to have a fair selection process and be able to communicate that with the readers to anyone can have this clear idea why defect tricky particlar claim or why. They've Patrick a particular story and whether there is any weight on one stores issues or claims. Moore I'm going to Jurassic and this is the locker podcast March Twenty. Six Two thousand twenty. Welcome to another episode of the PODCASTS. Arbiters of Truth Series on disinformation. This Week Evelyn recognized spoke with by bars or the director of the international fact checking network at the POYNTER institute fact checking has become newly prominent in recent years as fact checkers worked to counter surges of online disinformation misinformation. And it's more important than ever right now. In the middle of a pandemic when incorrect information circulating online his immediate consequences for people's Health Mars has been on the frontlines of fact checking in recent years. We spoke to him about the fact Checkers Code of Principles facebook's partnership or fact checkers for content shared in their platforms. And why fact checking is important right now. It's the law for podcast episode. Five hundred twenty. Six libraries are sick on everything you've ever wanted to know about fact chicken fibers. Thank you very much for joining us. Today you'll the director of the international fact checking network at the Point Institute. Let's start with something really basic what is the IFC N? Sure the IFC is the international factory in that as you have perfectly Summarize is a unit within the points poynter institute and it was set up in late two thousand fifteen to address. Risa fact checking organizations around rolled and so far it has been working with fact. Checkers are researchers and other stakeholders in the field to enhance the practice effect. Checking for more reliable and healthy public discourse and so what's your role with IFC n I ended already through to net. I I was hired back in Last February After working five years is a factor in Turkey My Russ hired by POYNTER INSTITUTE TO ELITE After our founding director Alexis Monza step down In late two thousand eighteen so my duty is basically to support effecting eco-system and provide more capacity and resources to organizations in our network and help new organizations to start fact checking and join those moments. So what exactly does that involve? Like maybe get a little bit more specific. What kind of resources and things do you give to? The fact check is in your network. Sure we are actually acting as an umbrella organization for world's nonpartisan fact checkers and I think it's fair to say that he loved the The early days of the net for goes back to Two Thousand and thirteen two thousand fourteen. When a group of fact checkers decided to meet for the first time in London to share best practices. Which eventually turn to the global conferences so for the last six years the The has been meeting in different parts of the world. And since the launch of two thousand fifteen the meetings were started to call as the global fat conferences and a revered we hold. Those conferences are in different. Parcels rolled of the first two are held in London. The tournament was held in race and for the fifth one were held in Madrid and Rome and the last year. I had the opportunity to organize the six conference in Cape Town South Africa and hopefully zero. We will be meeting gaining Ozone Norway allowing the you know the nineteen hundred travel restrictions. The travel people have And in addition to our global conferences we run the core principles which is basically the process that these sorts of organizations as our verify signatures and so far in our need for more than ninety organizations have been certified as verified signatures to Showing that they adhere to higher standards inside checking applying higher standards in accountability in transparency and providing Better examples in Having a methodology on their day to day affecting so dose to can be categorized as the backbone of our verb at the San But on the other hand we also do provide in-person online trainings Do the just last year. We were in twelve different countries to organize in person trainings. Mostly focusing on helping new organizations to star Trek checking and basically the whole mandate that we have is to pork orgainzation With trainings networking conferences. Best practice with our principles and a number of snow brand's to support the White House but probably I mean left by Release We also act as an advocacy organization when it comes to more fact checks and authoritative sources on platforms and small transparent coverage on the impact of fact checking in different platforms and make sure The fact checking Provis Information to the users that they desperately need especially you know such important things that we are going through. So that's fantastic. Because I'd like to ask you just a little bit more about the Court of Principles that you mentioned which as you said really does seem to be a backbone of the work that you do so that is five principles that seemed to be a fairly high level principles of good practice. Full fact checkers. Could you maybe describe what that document is and what the process was drafting? Not sure the principles was announced in late. Two early two thousand sixteen when we had experienced a rise of new fetching organizations and the senator blee right before the US elections And after that it became the fact checking became a health topic in rural and we had experienced forming any organization starting to a fact check on a regular basis either as a standalone organization lower part of large houses. The international factoring wickford tried to step in and promote principles which actually followed by A set of criteria that outlines the expectations than responsible dissolved organizations to follow And even though we realized that it's not the ceilings comes to high standards of the at least hope that being serving the community as a floor for better fact checking ambitious journalism in general. That's great I mean one of the things. I'm curious about is you. You said the the code was launched in September twenty sixteen. There's been a surge of interest in fact checking and in fact checking organizations. This is a pretty basic question. But I'd love to hear your thoughts on it like why now like. Why is it that that right now? Fact checking has this new prominence in this new importance right so I guess it's more about like I think it's wasn't a combination of the interest so far we have seen starting in early two thousands but I think the US elections in two thousand sixteen really brought the concept of fake news and misinformation to us more prominently So I think it's not surprising. It wasn't surprising to see more organizations starting as a practice As a Nisha or in a separate practice in their journey actor with these two a pro-life more evidence based discourse in their local sittings new might find it interesting. But it's not that the. Us HAS US had the majority of new organizations in two thousand sixteen so when we do our annual serene our community were able to see that the rise in late two thousand sixteen or belonged was mostly coming from countries out of the US So therefore I think it's it makes sense to see that the media was fair in so many countries that are verse so Concentrated End. Polarization was also under is not only in the US within Europe in Asia in The Melissa North Africa polarization most likely encouraged our new organizations star. Fact checking Because they have been able to at least promote this new concept in such a polarized The atmosphere and on Moore Phase discourse reiter than more values based polarizing discourse in local. Think so I think that's the key reason why we have been able to see more factoring organizations using this practice two inch arena to their media worst fears with new Less polarizing at least in Kyrie less polarizing effort to provide more reliable information and so in this environment. That as you say is is so highly polarized. I'm interested in your thoughts about how fact checkers ensure nonpartisanship right. I mean there have been a lot of criticism is on the right that you know fact checking might be biased in in one direction or another. I I'd love to hear your response to that. Just your general thoughts on how fact checkers can sort of ensure trust that. They're fact checks are accurate and not affected by politics. So nonpartisanship has been a gain. The Central Fire Cordova principles just to help the fact checking organizations or the fact checking woman to lead their first in restoring trust in the media. Therefore we still have a big emphasize on ensuring the nonpartisanship in their body. Oh for their fact checks in their public. Communications so reader won't be hesitant to consume those facts so that was the whole idea. If fact checking organizations can play a role can be the front runner in the struggle to SORTA trust in media. That can only be done if they act as a nonpartisan organization so it's totally normal to think that journalists fact triggers broking in those organizations might have different political affiliations different political beliefs but when it comes to the Virg- at special counsel their methodology that they do their fact checks. They need to provide that. They don't have a section buys they don't focus on one party or one political group more than eter so eventually readers can see that the fact checking organization covers if not equally but at least fairly each political party or candidate with the courage and it doesn't mean that they need to have a false balance in their words but at least What they have been asking from our assessors is that the organizations in our network if they want to be certified and if they want to be in the nets stay in they have to have a fair election process and be able to communicate that with the readers to anyone can have this clear radio. Why particular claim or why they factor particles story and whether there is any weight on one of those issues or claims Moore Anders? The process for certification is really interesting. I was just wondering. Do you have many people that apply for certification that don't get certified we do. We do every year. We also come up with those figures and for the first time of the he served. Ifc and we just decided last year to disclose a number of organizations that were rejected by In the past few we're not doing that to basically take some of the organizations that they were not able to get certified because in many cases the reason why those organizations are not certified can be due to their concerns about transparency especially in countries. Where you don't have freedom of speech Media granted So we were not disclosing. The number of organizations rejected annually authority from these year. We will be doing that annually and wealth results. That did not do that. In the past was also related to the challenge that the always have had which is finding structure finding a methodology which can apply to organizations more into different countries Because the legal or a political structure in those Zeno Pick. The bus countries are similar sale in some cases re had to not to disclose those organizations who are not Certified so starting from desert. We will be announcing them but just said you know an APP BALLPARK CARCASS. With over the tree or the last two years. I can comfortably say that. It's more than twenty five percent off. Applications that ended up with a rejection fascinating. So you mentioned that that certification process is what allows the fact checkers to be part of the partnership that the IFC N has with facebook so facebook announced in two thousand seventeen. I believe it was that being a signatory to that code was necessary to be a third party fact. Checker for its platforms. Are you able to give us a little bit of background behind how that came about sure it was late two thousand sixteen when Advisory Board of the AFC N? Which at the time. I was also part of that advisory board in my previous capacities as the founder Organization in Turkey. We came up with decided to send an open letter to mark Zuckerberg and address. The misinformation problem on facebook and facebook actually acted immediately By announcing deter part effects you can program and using ICN's certification is a necessary but not sufficient criteria to onboard new partners so so far facebook has been working with more than forty five different organizations from. If I'm not wrong in their took part effects you can program and even though all of them are part of our network as our advice futures not all of our verify signatures are broken so facebook At the end of today has the ability and the whole you know room to make decisions whom they Within this partnership. And so how is it going so far? You guys have now been doing this for a couple of years. I think it's one of the most Colored Partnerships when it comes to fighting against music formation due to the number of problems that facebook has been having crew When it comes to data privacy Lack of transparency in the impact of the program another aspect of Virk but I think it's fair to say that the program needs credit at least in the sense that It allows fact checkers to put input at provide input to the company so they can enforce certain treatments Such as reducing the reach of the contents or demonetizing certain repeat offenders publishers. So I think the gains have been more than it has been covered in. The media is negatively so I think that's been important Experiment than effort to bring together tech companies in fact checkers in a way to help users to get more reliable information than at least get some warnings before they choose to interact or Engaged with as misinformation by the partners. So I think that's good and that doesn't mean that there is no room for improvement there. Obviously is a rule for improvement especially on the transparency and the part of the program Because we have been advocating constantly that facebook should be more transparent about the reach of the facts The reach of misinformation before they were fact. Jack so how fetching health users to get better informed. I think we need to know more about that From facebook and additionally I think we also have been having certain areas of improvement where the communication can be a more inclusive in terms of getting more input from researchers getting more input from fact checkers and making those decisions in the policy About the political speech the opinion Centaur Could have been defined in a more structured way and with less room for interpretation in different countries. Because right now the program is active in more than fifty different languages the more different countries so I think we can also have more infamous on those areas as well. You said that it's one of the most coveted partnerships what other partnerships do have and. Is there any sign that other platforms looking to engage in some sort of partnership similar to the one we facebook or are they sort of just sitting back and watching at the moment and evaluating their options? That question can be answered in two different ways for different companies different platforms. But I'm not feeling comfortable in you. Know making a comment on that because at this point at least regarding this this problem that we have a special about this co with nineteen related misinformation. I'm more than happy to see that more and more the platforms are taking actions in terms so if you know working with fact checkers so does ray promising have historically I think. stood other companies might especially Twitter in that sense Could have been more active in. Maybe not necessarily following the same pattern. At least exploring some charges radicalled Virg- with more Fact checkers to surface more authoritative source on the platform because when we all talk when we talk about misinformation. It's likely that people are focused on facebook. These which makes total sense in many ways but I think we sometimes underestimates role of other companies role in disseminating thinking information. And I think there are some areas where they can Get some you know. Advice is in terms of building more specific program for the platforms on the other hand. Will that has been also very collaborates. organizations Over the last couple of years They search Mu's products have teams have product. Saito needs fact checkers and they also been constantly working to improve certain tech infrastructure so factors can communicate the countdown with platforms much more efficiently I think it's a work in progress for all of those companies all of those platforms and meeting more important letting it's also important to say that The policies in terms of air stores misinformation should also be caused their separate from the Partnership for example. Pinchas let's say doesn't have informal partnership with truckers the policy that they have against anti walks innovation and right now the call at nineteen and you know empowering information for moral It needs to be also creative. Appear so they don't necessarily need to work with fact checkers in order to make their platforms. More ECKERD's information driven mediums for everyone. So you've mentioned Fact checking in response to a social media content on uncovered nineteen. I'm curious just for for your thoughts on that. It does seem like there's been a surge of Denison misinformation as well as a really kind of aggressive content moderation on multiple platforms. I just love to hear your thoughts about that. I think what we have been seeing lately is a total different way of thinking from platforms. I think the R may have passed this. You know point where from were more able to Mules or are that don't have so much responsible. The in the in the spread of misinformation. But right now I think what the Covet nineteen and more about especially health misinformation. They have all agreed that they need to do more So I think this might be the only silver lining that we might have during this outbreak Because Day by day I happen to observe that that firms are taking more measures actions to not allow anyone that has the intention to spread misinformation or regain profis by you know true hawks conservatories or fake medicines. Stuff like that so I think we are GonNa be in a better era when it comes to recognising platforms responsibilties. So that's a gain that I think we need to build on and make sure this is not only limited to such a globally recognised outbreak but also in cases where local communities might be effective while the rest of the road may not get the attention as they have right now. I'll take any silver lining I can get that I really hope that that's right. That this is a an impetus for greater attention for other situations as well. I'd like to ask you about a study. That's getting a lot of coverage at the moment That's recently been published That says that fact checking can have an implied truth effect So the the paper talks about when social media platforms stickle label on posts? That that says that this Story has been rated false by a third party fact Checker There's some evidence that these can make people think that all the stories that have that label More true whether or not they've actually been fact checked. I was wondering if you could just maybe talk a little bit about what your reaction is to that study given. It's getting so much coverage sure. For first of all I am more than happy to see that fact checking is getting studied in more quantitative way than it's you was used to call word in more crowded the way so. I think be came to a point where everybody agrees that fact checking has the impact and now the Royd about whether they imply truth fact will be larger than the impact of fact checking itself. So I think that's progress at also. We really need to take. And you know Make sure we keep studying misinformation in this quantitative way so I appreciate that about the only observation though the major obser- concern. I have is actually is to Foltz one. I think there's still this tendency in some academic circles to us fact. Checking is a tool to. I don't WanNA say attack against like pressure is better term here to pressure take companies of forbear other non fact checking rate of problems. So that's my first concern my first reservation about that particular study and secondly about the suggestions there. I don't think cross sourcing will ever be able to cover. What professional affecting has been able to covered Illinois is scheduled the problems? I agree. That fact checkers are not growing on trees a hand. We will always need additional resources to train. More fact checkers. Allow them or help them to be more in a position to provide more input soda. Tantrums can act accordingly Whether they this is journalism I think. Journalism needs to be done professionally. There have been some efforts to crops. Fact checking in visible of the crowd even though. It sounds really intriguing intriguing. I think it has something patients especially about the the other thing of the verb itself and whether it will be sacrificed into polarization and we won't be able to have an objective and ever those phase verdict on any given particular piece of potential misinformation so having set those I also think that it's not fair to undermine the role of fact checking just because we think. It's not scaled with enough sizable just raises questions. From which will be should be also stopped doing investigative reporting because if not then it will be easier for Walter -Tarian leaders in their countries to commit keep committing crimes Because people will not be able to raise their voices because there's no investigative reporting question is Mojo universal When it comes to the impact of fact checking impact of journalism. I think the best that we can do is Supporting more fact checking organizations supporting newsrooms to start dedicate more resources in this time consuming practice and pressuring the platforms in the right way. So they can empower more nieves rooms in this way and have people to share the users to share their feedback whether they find those Findings reliable or not. So you hint there at a kind of fact checking in journalism that there. There's a little bit of a comparison that can be drawn although of course there. They are different in terms of both methodology and what role they play. Can you just talk about that? A little more. How do you see fact checking interacting with journalism For full transparency. I come from Background on the organization that I started back in Turkey. In two thousand fourteen was started as an organization that will primarily exclusively claims and claims of public interest in Turkey. And there's probably only to say that it's not necessarily to say that but Turkey and they country where you have number of of meath rooms organizations I mean journalistic organizations that do this intensive are putting work Where you cross stoves official claims with primary and secondary sources than provide the public with a little space outcome whether officers for having a Detroit or not so my understanding fact checking is not limited to political fact checking per se but I highly value the role of political fact checking and believe strongly believed that there are so many common grounds. It's been traded Journalism in fact checking plant comes to help people to haul to hold. The power of societies is accountable. So that's aside. I also think that and you know strongly experience that the new not recent but like you know for the last couple of Grow wing concept of unification especially followed by a more open source in tools based reporting. It's turning into a new form of journalism like the verb being dumped by bailing cat. The others I'm fine. I'm having some time to not to call them as journalists anymore because like seeing them using those tools and methodology to investigate the story. And you know come up with such amazing stories are actually journalism. If you ask me so I think growingly we are seeing more and more over Laos which beans this Polka fact checking between the wave As you know The bunking practiced and the Journalism that we know so I'm linked to see that's being more powered as you know. We have more progress in embedding more journalistic skills are expecting wrote in our new allegations programming. I mean because in political factor can I think be older to have those skills in a way that is coming Tuesday nights as a part of journalism journalists? You mentioned Elia that there's been this moves in someplace towards crowdsourcing fact checking and that you're concerned about it something. I think that maybe would be really helpful for Allison's and for me as well it would be great if you could sort of walk through. How fact checking actually works. And what makes it different from? Just say like me spending some time on Google and trying to work out with. Something's true on on like what? What is the method fact checking that makes it special absolutely so if I want to play the devil's advocate I? Can you know easily sell you or anyone in this field that newsroom working with you know twenty twenty different people? Our with sort of expertise can also be considered crowd source needs from right because then you have a group of people who has Been playing a role in fact checking road and the in the in the newsroom where flows But when I say the crowd sourcing might be problematic. I I'm more thinking about like more which is kind of cross sourcing where you don't have an editorial oversight on the that will be published as affect joke at the end of the workflow but there are some progress that I think needs to be also a recognized which is like the The perfect example is sized feedback on science feedback is as Chow Source Fetching Organization. That works with more than Turkey. Peach holders in health and Climate Related Studies. And anytime that they Are Being factual a get those feedbacks from scientists But the difference between them and the you know the other Kapadia form of crossovers fact checking is that they work with people who they have ordered so They accept only pasty holder scientists to the pool of experts and they reliable feedbacks in their facts. That's closer to the traditional way of newsroom. Straightened and across source. You know needs from vandals. They they do that in a cross way but the biggest difference there is. I guess they have internal control. The to`real supervision overdose scientists and they Wet though scientists before they joined the poll. It's not that anyone who has access to Google or to. The five APP has the ability to play the fame among several. Throw in fact Jake were actually. You'll need some sort of technical or context bays expertise every single time so is it that reliance on expertise that can sometimes mean that fact checking takes a little long. Got like one of the things you see that checks get criticized for I guess. Platform reliance on fact checking gets criticized for is that it can sometimes take a little while to get a label stuck on a story and in the meantime obviously in the age of vitality stories go viral and they get lots of of use and things so is it that particular like it's the specialty of Fact checking that actually makes it. Also more time consuming. Yes I mean definitely But I think that's not something that we should be if you don't mind ashamed because I think that also shows the quality of the verb that needs to be also provided there. So I think the community in the you know the platforms are also coming to understanding that there are some things that doesn't need that sort of expertise Vitual be just like to see whether a headline is misleading or a photo is used in another context in the past. I mean those basic efforts can be outsourced. I mean I can agree to that. And there are some efforts by taste. For example in the foremost committee was that they are People with set of training doing some of those preliminary fact checking were before the content reaches reached. The fact checkers. I'm fine with that and I think that's also can be related to your conversation ultimatum fact checking Because it's been like the question of the you know the cage whether we will be able to see the machines will do the fact you're for us for their beanie needs for you know journalists factors but I think we also have to We also have this common understanding right. Now that there will be always in need for the human being for journalists for a fact Checker to provide context to whatever it's being affect check because in many In Ninety five may more percents of the time. It's about how you build that relationship between the claim has been the Whether it's a multimedia or the story and the context so making that assessment and providing expertise will be for long time Will be at the core of the Work and we will need experts. Who are not only educated on that but also being to held accountable for the work that they do Because what if e- we what if he needs to you know make a correction how we do that. And will the reader be interested in seeing ways behind the factoring organization Will they be interested in seeing whether they have? A nonpartisanship stands Over the course of their publishing period I think in order to answer those questions. We will always need professional affecting given though we also need to recognize that we as affect sugars need to come up with tools that can help us to automate some of our workflow and fast on the process of publishing contents and helping people to get warnings if necessary. I I share your skepticism that we'll ever get to a day where the machines can define truth for us but I guess just one little sort of follow up on that then because given the importance of context other any kinds of claims that just can't be fact checked like are there any stories where fat check will be trying to fact. Check it one way or another and they just can't. Is that something that is not a limitation at all. Well I mean the not of the mutation but I mean the preference that we are trying to promote in the community. I think also. There's a common understanding on as well The factors should be fact. Checking obedience fact. Checking shouldn't be about talent people whether they are data. Colts are right or wrong. I mean told. Opinions are subjective and I think they should be a subject effect shake unless the facts in those opinions are misleading people So instead of making that limitation I will suggest we tried to See as a preference in priority for fact checkers not to On obedience basically you know methodology impossible to affect your opinion but to make sure the figures the fact the the statistics the numbers. What have you are accurate? So they are. Not Misleading the raiders or the voters or the people aware we're being affected by that article or claim story and obviously we. CanNot you know predict the future? So you know fact checking Shouldn't be about you know making sure Bell's predictions are you know. Ecuador not But as long as we stick to the facts that are at the heart of the public discourse I think We will be playing role to help Users to short fiction from Church so where just about out of time but before we go to ask you a big picture question in your view. What's the biggest thing that fact checkers or platforms partnering? With fact checking organizations should work on over the next year the first panel that we had in less global factor in Cape Town South Africa was about healthily. The fact checking and it's was hunting and almost like in year before Vr Now having this colored nineteen outbreak. I'm just giving preference if anyone will be listening to spoke this podcast From now on And I think the community has the common understanding that we need to allocate more resources to health related misinformation to fight against the health related misinformation and empower our readers are users are followers with a skills and the tape sued. They can act as effect trigger when they face against a misinformation especially on health related issues. 'cause this is this can be fatal Misinformation can relate it. Actually you know causes real life harm just a couple of days ago. In Iran seventy people died because they consumed at the ethyl alcohol because they thought it full cure coronavirus so misinformation and that was a you know a a misinformation parading in Teddy ground in other platforms in Iran and the examples can be replicated in every parcel terrell. So I think the fact checkers should be more educated. Educating about how ordinary people can be there on fact checkers when were they come up with an misinformation that would affect their held and the life and it's also very promising to see that more and more effecting organizations are investing in media literacy as part of far international fact checking efforts we last year we have published in two thousand eight nineteen we have published a database of media to to see activities down by fetching organizations and we are updating that in two weeks for for racial effect chicken they available survey this April so more training engagement ordinary people on the basic self misinformation on how people can prevent them will be at the core of at the central fact checkers focused and the platforms as well all right. Let's leave it there. thank you so much for joining us. This was a great conversation. Thank you thank you for having me. You've been listening to arbiters of truth. The lover PODCASTS. Miniseries on disinformation. You can find past episode in Law. Fair podcast feed and we'll be back for another episode next Thursday the love. Your podcast is produced in cooperation with the Brookings Institution. Thanks this week to buy bars are music is performed by again. Our audio engineer with Jacob Schultz and our producer is jen patch halal. Please Rain Review Her. Podcast on the podcasting up of your choice. And thanks for listening

facebook Turkey US Moore Anders Ifc POYNTER INSTITUTE Google director Patrick Evelyn nonpartisanship London mark Zuckerberg Point Institute raiders Ecuador Court of Principles Pinchas Brookings Institution
Kelly McBride 1-10-21

CATS Roundtable

10:25 min | 7 months ago

Kelly McBride 1-10-21

"The morning america. This is the catch roundtable. Chunk catsuits here. Well it's all over no more coverage of than the new cycle and the election. That's good news. I got tired of watching watching it well with us. Today from the poynter institute and the purpose of the point institute is journalism is we have kelly mcbride And she's been here for twenty years just about and She's gonna talk about journalism. Kelly how are you good. How are you. i'm flying. Tell everybody in. America who point is it is and what you do. We are a nonprofit with found in nineteen seventy five by nelson poynter who the owner of a local newspaper here in florida. The saints saint petersburg times. It's now called the tampa bay times He created the poynter institute as a mechanism for providing professional development and advancement to the journalism world. And so what we do is provide leadership thought leadership and training we also are the home of politifact and the international checking network and media wise and those are all divisions of pointers that help citizens malvo gate journalism. So we were were small. We have sixty seventy employees at any given time but our mission is to elevate journalism in service of democracy. The american people. I believe are having a little bit of problem with that as i told you when we talked before Is i was watching four different screens the other night and i was watching cnn. I was watching. Msnbc and i was watching fox. And i was watching the local news station new york one and i was like watching four different stories in i grew up. I'm much older than you. I grew up in days. Walter cronkite when ninety two percent of the american people. Believe walter cronkite has to say. Do we have a problem in america right now. What what's happened in america. Is that that time that you talk about with walter. Cronkite was a time when there were far fewer news outlets and so as a citizen you had fewer choices to make about which news you would consume and as a result you had a much. Larger proportion of the american public consuming. All of the news outlet so trust was not necessarily an issue because of a lot of things including the invention of cable the invention of the internet The invention of social media we have created a thousand times more news and as a result they have in order to define themselves against each other have chosen lanes and so what you described just watching on tv. Three of those are news outlets that have chosen a specific lane and their cable news outlets that broadcasts twenty four hours a day and so that is a certain genera of news that maybe emblematic of all the other lanes that other news outlets have chosen or not. I mean i. I think that there is a citizens when we talk about our consumption. We tend to define them in those especially those three lanes of you know. Cnn considers itself middle of the road. I know not everybody does. Msnbc is definitely Speaking to a liberal audience and fox news was created to serve a conservative audience and so They i think the problem is in taking that framework and then trying to impose it on other parts of the news ecosystem. That don't necessarily work like television news and the reason that we do that is because most americans get their news from television. In fact most americans get their news from that fourth option that you just described their local television station and so so television tends to be the the lens through which we as citizens forum our definitions of media. But it's it's it's it's more nuanced than that to be though what you said about. The trust problem is real right There are lots and lots of studies and they show that citizens generally have a broad distrust of media. However when you go deeper into this studies what you find is that every citizen has a media outlet that he or she trusts right so it's sort of like asking people about lawyers right like nobody likes lawyers but then if you need a lawyer you tend to find one that you can trust and the same is true of media So trustworthy category than who used car salesman. We get together. We can do a whole show on that about congress that way to yup. We absolutely can kelly the original founders of cbs. Bill i knew him. David sarnoff a ranch. Channel four nbc. They took pride in making sure. They're telling me. Emergent people that you i think i think most journalists and journalism companies take pride in making sure that they are telling the american people the truth. Let's talk about. This goes to the other picture. A lot of people in news from the internet they get it from google. They get it from facebook. They get it from twitter. And i was shocked that the president of the united states. They just come off now. Everybody's entitled to an opinion. What say you about that Should he be regulated On that respect well. That's an existential question. Right now for social media platforms and i absolutely think that they should be responsible for the content that other people post on their site now real old real and the boundaries of that responsibility There have been documented cases of mob behavior that has been instigated by political figures around the world that has led to Genocides is India me and mar There are there are documented instances and and in most cases the social media platforms. Where the we only have a minute left to same restrictions on radio television cable but everybody boundaries boundaries. You can't yell fire in a theater. For example those restrictions are are generally civil restrictions right. they're not legal restrictions. They come in the form of civil penalties afterward Which means that. They don't have the they're slow to evolve and and i do think that That they should have the same restrictions. I agree with you. I just want better reporting everybody. And i suppose checkpoint institute whenever i can because you're pushing ethics launch. Yeah that's my job. Yeah i am the chair of the craig newmark center for ethics and leadership. So that's what. I specialize in media ethics. That's wonderful. I'm glad you're doing that. Do you think we we have to get better as well. We have we have to evolve the media ecosystem. We have to keep evolving it. We're not going to go back to that point in time. Where walter cronkite said the news and everybody believed it and there were flaws in that system right. There were a lot of voices that were left out of representation in journalism in that era. And so we're not gonna go back. We have to get to a point where the playing field is level and also where the economy can somehow support journalism. Because because the other thing that's happened in all of this is local news has been decimated and so you live you live in a place that has lots of news but you go across the country and more than half of the reporters that serve local audiences have disappeared in the last fifteen years and so so we have to figure out how we're going to support good journalism because the founders did know that free speech and journalism with was the only way to hold powerful people accountable so it is absolutely critical that we have a class of journalists that are contributing to democracy We don't we don't quite know how that's gonna work in the future. It's on a national level. There's an economy to support it but on a local level That that's an absolute crisis. Right now tell me mcbride. Thank you so much for coming on sunday morning and I think you're doing wonderful work. At poynter institute teaching ethics And leadership to reporters and future journalists a great job. John thank you very much and Be talking to you thank you. This is the catch roundtable. We'll be right back.

poynter institute united states walter cronkite point institute kelly mcbride nelson poynter petersburg times malvo Msnbc tampa bay times cnn Cronkite saints Kelly David sarnoff walter fox florida fox news
Covering The Threat Of White Supremacy

1A

36:02 min | 2 years ago

Covering The Threat Of White Supremacy

"Support for this n._p._r. Podcast and the following message come from better help online counseling by licensed professional counselors specializing in issues including depression stress eddings -iety visit better help dot com slash n._p._r. To learn more and get ten percent off your first month. This is one a. I'm joshua johnson. Visiting wwl are in public media in miami. Trump urges unity versus racism. That was a page one headline in the new york times yesterday for a few hours. The times reported what mr trump said that white supremacy is bad but the headline gives the impression of him as a unifying voice on race. The paper changed the headline for later editions after people mocked and criticized it on social media. It's just one example of the ongoing debate in many newsrooms how to cover and describe racism that our dr word can be a kind of thought stopper it slams our minds shut and flings our emotions wide open. If you already believe donald trump is a racist. How does that impact the way you consume news about him. If you don't what's the right way to help you reconsider and for that matter should the news tell you what to think or just tell you the facts or maybe a bit of both joining us from saint petersburg florida is kelly mcbride the senior vice president of the poynter institute a a professional school for journalists. She is the chair of pointers craig newmark center for ethics and leadership telly welcome back to hanes asha joining us from n._p._r. New york is n._b._c.'s ben collins. He covers online extremism and disinformation ben. Welcome back at our home. Base in washington is univision's washington correspondent underpay. Sarah fed an undergrad but have you back to yes. Thank you kelly let me start with you earlier. In your career you covered white supremacists in idaho a hotel me a bit about that experience and what you learned as it related to reporting on supremacy yeah so in one of my very first first jobs in journalism. I was a police reporter in quarterlane idaho. I worked for the spokane spokesman review and i was surprised to learn there was a whole department of the f._b._i. In quarterlane and they were there to monitor the activities of the aryan nations which was was a white supremacist group that was run by richard butler and there were numerous white supremacists throughout north idaho and <hes> one of my first assignments was was to cover a skinhead march in the middle of quarterlane idaho and i was i was totally unprepared to do that and what i did with other reports the lead of other reporters at the paper <hes> was to document the ideology the things that they were saying and their critique of america in a way that that drew outrage from the rest of our community because the rest of our community felt like this was such a small group of people you know a couple of hundred two times a thousand <hes> they were so so angry at us for documenting it and what i learned in the fifteen years that i worked <hes> at that newspaper in in that community was that it was still very important to show the community who was living among us and what they believed in what they were espousing but it was also really important horton to cover the dialogue between that set of beliefs and the broader community and this was before the internet right and so so it was a it was a troubling difficult time for for us as journalists but if we did not have the complications of the internet because because in the f._b._i. Agents tell us is that when we would give them voice we would actually bring them believers also because more people would reach out to them and balancing that was very difficult as a journalist because it's not my job to tell people to to not believe something. It's my job to hold up a mirror to the community and say hey this is who you are. Do you really wanna be this ben colin since we do live in an age of the internet. I wonder what your sense is of. How covering white supremacist changed particularly since the two thousand sixteen election. I i think it's difficult. I i completely agree with what was just said there. You know <hes> we have to be extremely careful not to amplify just to just to bring about show what their messages in the context of history and show you know for example that white supremacists nations <hes> ethnos states have typically failed <hes> in show generally as well that that sort of hatred brings about a lot of death a lot of suffering in not a lot of otherwise positive things. That's that's something you have to show through context and you can say it's racist because they will admit it's racist. They are racists. Generally the difficult thing with the internet generally is that <hes> the you know things things said ed by leaders are not just echoed but they're amplified times ten <hes> because that's the point of extremism they always take ten notches above <hes> what the common i mean you know what the common rhetoric is around specific things for example immigration. You know h in fort chan these sites that are now getting a lot of attention. They were always they were pro-trump during the two thousand sixteen election but they were always a little bit further than him at every step when when he called <hes> mexicans rapist rapist yes now. Let's act on it right. That's that's the difference is that they take it to the next step on these places they you know there. There's a lot of people who say that <hes> these sites don't the people who put up these manifestos don't support the president in a lot of ways they support his rhetoric but they don't support the way he's going about handling. They want to take it another step further and that's something that we struggle with as you know as news reporters. We want to be able to say hey. These people are taking the most extreme version. The president is saying but we we don't say outright that they are you know directly working with him in any way because that's not true either but can you take us back back to last weekend and the editorial decisions that went into the coverage of the mass shooting in el paso particularly the investigation into the gunman and his views. Give me your sense of what it was like kind of in the moment making editorial decisions about what to say what not to say on how to say it well josh. I'm first of all our company. Which is <hes> you know. The network is headquartered in miami. <hes> has mobilized a lot lot of resources to el paso also to to dayton but <hes> we've had a lot of other our texas stations as well having a lot of teams there right right now and since this weekend of course the intensity of the coverage has increased not only since this weekend we have to go back to to what happened in california that we can before and gilroy elroy were also latinas were targeted <hes> so we've got to specials <hes> one last night about <hes> networks specials <hes> so one particularly centering on how latinos an or being targeted and <hes> this this goes back for a long time so this it's just a continuation of what our coverage has been since the fateful day than when donald trump announced his candidacy back in two thousand fifteen and and many many our audience felt attacked <hes>. We've you know this is deeply personal topic for for many in our in our audience within our network so basically yes we. We've <hes> increased our coverage <hes> we are. You know you have to realize realized that cure you know when when we're talking about al paso you're talking about. It's such a binational city. <hes> that <hes> we're able able to to to tap both sides of the border on this undis- particular <hes> coverage so it it's it's been and it's is going to continue obviously for the next few days and weeks. Let's add another voice to our conversation before we continue. Also this now is jane coast in a senior politics reporter for vox who focuses on white nationalism and the far-right jane welcome to the program. Thank you for so much for having me love to get your reaction before we take our first break to a clip from c._n._n.'s chris chris cuomo democratic presidential candidate beto aerobic. They spoke last night. Mister o'rourke is no passing native and has been very very outspoken about the president's rhetoric among others. I wanna get your reaction to this exchange because it's kind of at the heart of pretty much everything we're going to discuss this hour listen. I've heard the critique oh. He didn't write that he's fair enough but he said the words and he did say white. Supremacy is hate and should be treated as domestic terror important for you then to say that this is the same man who called white nationalists in klansmen and neo nazis very fine people though asked for more immigrants so look like those in sweden and norway the whitest places on the planet while describing immigrants from haiti as full of aids or countries in africa nations. This is the most racist racist presidents we've had since andrew johnson in another age in another century and he is responsible for the hatred and the violence that we're seeing right now. You cannot leave that just to me to say that it's gotta be you and those who are helping this country understand what is happening in our name to connect those dots of these actions actions that can seem unconnected or disparate or random or just strange. They're not they're all of a pattern. That's democratic presidential candidate beto o'rourke speaking talking to c._n._n.'s chris cuomo yesterday by do take mr aerobics point and it seems like the issue here is content versus context. I'd like to get your thoughts on in that jane in just a moment. I'm joshua johnson and you're listening to one a. from w. A. m. u. and n._p._r. <music> support for n._p._r. And the following message come from from carmax for more than twenty five years carmax has made it easy to sell your car they provide free appraisals and offers on the spot carmax will buy your car even if you don't buy there's in fact carmax has bought more than eight million vehicles to learn more and schedule your free appraisal visit carmax x dot com. I'm shankar danton host of n._p._r.'s hidden brain thinking deeply hyo to tell you about summer series you to point out the ideas and advice about how you can respond to life's kiosks to just check to my inbox just just just checking my phone real quick with wisdom <music> listen to hidden brain every week jane costa let me pick up with you and that statement from beto o'rourke. It seems like the issue you is kind of content versus context and how we balance those two exactly i. I'd like to note that there's been a lot of racists president since andrew johnson taking of woodrow wilson for example but i also think that there's the back and forth about the contents in the context next is worth having because i think one of the things that i get really concerned about working on this beat is that everything is so tied to trump you. White nationalism has a long history in this country white. Nationalist violence is a long history in this country. The worst domestic terror attack that ever took place in this country was oklahoma city bombing on on april nineteenth nine hundred ninety four and that obviously took place well before the trump presidency but i do think that the context be constant uses <music> of certain terminology and how much trump the view that the trump administration and trump himself seems to have his own base that his base will respond best asked to that kind of messaging. I think that that's something and i'm glad that you're both quavo at work kind of picked up on. I think it's concerning when this becomes about you. This is because of trump no this is because of the long history of white nationalism and white nationalist sentiment that existed in this country for decades. This is because does law enforcement has been unwilling around able to really challenge how radicalization takes place. It has how took place in nineteen eighties now it takes place today but i think that having a conversation about what the context with the context in which shootings are taking place it's happening and how that ties to this current presidency. I think that that's our conversation asia while worth having we asked you what you wanted from the press after these twin tragedies this weekend in el paso dayton glad to have gotten the number of your voicemails including including this one from cindy that landed in our in box. My name is cindy from tucson. Arizona and i hold trump responsible for all of this hate in this country we can. We talk about him. Re tweeting <hes> a white supremacist from england katie hopkins who called immigrants cockroaches and called for a final final solution for muslims. How about <hes> his supporters yelling shoot them. When trump asked what we should do about this invasion immigrants. Let's talk about that plays a little bit cindy good point thank you for bringing those up and just by way of context cindy is referring to a campaign rally that president trump held in panama city florida back in may where he said something to the effect of what should we do about this invasion and someone in the audience yelled shoot them and then people started laughing and the president said something to be effective. Only in panama city could get away with that only earn panama city and everybody had a pretty good laugh about that but ben collins with regards to what cindy said in terms of re tweets. What's your perspective on that so you said only in the panhandle. Could you get away with that. What's sure perspective on that. Some people have taken the president to task for what he's written. Others have taken them to task for what he has kind of amplified. Do we count both both of those the same do we contextualized those differently. How do you see it so it is a coordinated campaign strategy <hes> by the trump campaign generally <hes> what he re tweets in who he re tweets he he does in fact dig pretty deep into twitter to find random for example pune on accounts accounts recently which is a conspiracy theory that believes that hillary clinton is <hes> like a satanist pedophile he dug deep to re tweet those is people recently or somebody on his staff as and that's that is part of a campaign strategy that he has deployed <hes> ever since <hes> brad personnel who used to be digital israel director became his campaign director. <hes> parcel is known to be a part of what i would call the maga- internet <hes> the you know. He's a <hes>. He said he's beyond the donald which is a read it <hes> forum where a lot of a lot of really gross stuff happens <hes> that's where a lot of these memes come from from an that's how they get pushed up to the top <hes> and frankly those sorts of means in those spaces intermingle with white nationalist rhetoric in white supremacist assist rhetoric and other white nationalist forums generally they share lots of user bases so those talking points can seep in <hes> through that sort of thing in in it is again. It's part of a coordinated digital campaign strategy. Let don't disassociate those two things <hes> they know what what they're doing. This is very deliberate so yet. That's that's the difference here is that you know he is he is he understands that he's dog whistling and <hes> that can't be discounted for none of the washington post. Margaret sullivan wrote a column on sunday. Asking quote can the news media go on a righteous crusade about gun laws or white supremacy while maintaining their roles as truth tellers unquote. I put this to you partly because what had almost who is is the primary anchor of not sierra leone which the nightly newscast on univision has been quite outspoken on a number of matters related to immigration to the president he still the lester holt of univision and there are a lot of networks that have to kind of figure out this balance of being able to speak to the soles of their audience while still still doing straight ahead shoe leather reporting. How do you see that that balance. Do we have enough time well we we've had as i said earlier we have to take it back to that fateful day of the announcement of his of his candidacy when he came down the escalator in new york and <hes> and he basically basically insulted <hes> referred to mexicans <hes> you may re you may recall that the outrage among latinos <hes> <hes> about the words that trump <hes> spoke then at that speech <hes> basically they went through all types of nationalities <hes> <hes> you know all the tino's in many teams in the us fell defended even puerto ricans who are u._s. Citizens and then you go back to corky who was kicked out of a press conference by donald trump himself in iowa during the primary season in two thousand fifteen and so i think it's become personal personal in a way but at the same time we have to we were talking about content versus context. You know we we have not called on the air or on our digital coverage of trump racist. You know we still use attribution to see who who is calling calling his comments racist and that's very important kelly mcbride with regards to context. Let me play a clip from a story that c._n._n. Sarah side ner did last month about white supremacy. This was after president trump tweeted a number of racist tweets against four progressive congresswoman. I on presley alexandria cossio cortez ilhan omar mar and retreated to leave in the course of that report. She spoke to richard spencer an avowed white supremacist a leader of the so-called alt-right. Here's a a piece of that story with sarah ciders narration within it and then kelly. I'd like to get your take on it on the other side. Listen white nationalist richard spencer who hailed trump when he was first elected is among those who are turning on trump. Many white nationalist will eat up. This red meat that donald trump is throwing out there. I am not one of them. I recognize the con game that is going on. They say trump's is all talk and no action kim on maintaining white dominance in america he gives us nothing outside of racist tweets and by racist tweets i mean tweets that are meaningless list and cheap and express the kind of sentiments you might hear from your drunk uncle while he's watching hannity yes that was richard spencer the man in who championed the two thousand seventeen unite the right rally in charlottesville virginia who believes that whites should live separately from non whites jewish people him calling the president's indi- tweet outright racist but to be clear there are many white nationalist supremacists neo nazis whatever racist group they adhere to who believe the president is still their choice. That's a clip from a piece by c._n._n. Sarah signer that aired last month now kelly. Would you unpack that for us on one hand. She does attempt contextualized his statements on the other hand she interviewed a white supremacist got his perspective on the air. How do we balance that well in particular. I think she missed the point because what he was saying is all he does is talk racism but he doesn't enact any policies to protect white people people he doesn't make racist policies in that's spencer's objection to the president not that he's racist and racism is a bad thing but there's there's no. There's no action behind his racist words in so i think you know the the danger the danger and giving having somebody like spencer a platform is <hes> you make him you legitimize him and you make him more attractive to to people who would would <hes> who would support him in a variety of ways including taking action on his suggestions the problem is that <hes> mm for democracy to work all the citizens need to know what the lay of the land looks like and so you need to know as a citizen that this philosophy exists and that the president either is or is not doing enough to placate these people and you you you have an obligation nations to to to reconcile your own moral choices against that backdrop but as journalists it is it is very difficult called particularly in the broadcast medium to do good journalism on this because you end up doing you end up both doing good and harm you you educate the public and you amplify a fringe message. Drink coast and i wonder how you see it. I mean this this idea of doing good and harm. I understand in terms of amplifying thing richard spencer on the other hand. I need to know that there is a richard spencer out there in what he thinks i mean james baldwin once said not everything that is faced can be changed changed but nothing can be changed until it is faced. How can you do anything about richard spencer until you hear in the clear regardless of how you feel about him. How can we do anything about it if we don't hear exactly what he thinks the thing is. We're not hearing exactly what what he thinks you. Richard spencer is a white nationalist. Who's also a fairly. He practiced media professional. He will say things that will be reflective of what he wants you to know it's actually markedly similar to how we treat up terrorist arrest manifestos terrorist manifestos diaries they were meant to be shared immensely spread richard spencer believes in a pass the supports a concept of passive of ethnic cleansing of the united states and i think that i i've spent a lot of time talking to white nationalists talking about white nationalism and when you talk to them they they very much try to position their views in a way that they think you will find less offensive for instance one white nationalist i spoke to you talked about his opposition addition to what he called race nixon as in a mixed race marriages by mentioning that mohammed ali it seemed to say the same thing in the nineteen sixty seven as if that would be something i would respond to by saying like oh yes muhammad. Ali opposes my parents marriage. I should be fine with that also and i think it's worth noting you racist live because racism is built on lies and i think that when we're talking about richard spencer it's worth noting both you know i understand the urge to kind of want to hear what he's saying saying but he is saying what he thinks you want to hear yet when richard spencer is talking to peter brim low or to others at your people at american renaissance others within within the world of professional white nationalist right. He is talking very differently than how he's going to talk to c._n._n. In a way that's going to see him placating and kind where what he's talking about. Racism though is michael panelist points out he saying that trump isn't doing enough racist actions. He's just saying racist things and joe but he's he means that he doesn't approve the lack of action ben collins. I'd love to get your sense of how you deal with that kind of content. When you kind of can't avoid it when it's your when it's your beat we got a positive minute. I i'd like to get your sense of some of the guiding principles some of the techniques some of the <hes> the standards that you keep in mind when you're doing that work. Let me get to a few of your comments before we pause the sixty four bus tweeted the news should not tell people what to think that is opinion not news in order to be called a news program. They should only be able to report the facts. This is one of the biggest problems with are twenty four hour quote unquote news cycle. We need more facts less opinion kyle wrote on our facebook page. I don't know why media sugar coats everything from our leaders no matter who they are if they lie call it a lie if they say something racist saying it if they say something hypocritical call it out in no uncertain terms arms waikato those who are supposed to lead good point kyle there are certain things. I gotta say that i'm perfectly fine calling out someone who for example says climate change. It has nothing to do with human activity. Where is it okay to call someone out. Stay close support for this n._p._r. Podcast and the following message edge come from the united states postal service every day. Innovative companies are reinventing the way business happens but none of that is possible without the right people people who who get packages to over one hundred fifty million delivery points affordably and on time with the latest technology and expertise who can help you deliver the future sure of commerce the united states postal service see why they deliver more ecommerce packages to homes than any one in the country at u._s._p._s. dot com slash future. Hey it's adelson host of n._p._r.'s latino u._s._a. Every week we bring you a mix of reporting diverse diverse voices and coverage of current and emerging issues that impact our lives let the u._s._a. Is one of kind featuring stories from the heart stories stories that make you think and maybe even inspire you to action. Listen and subscribe now ben. Let me pick up where we left off in terms of your best practices for reporting on extremism jane. I'd love to know if you would add anything to <hes>. Ben starts with ben. How how do you handle this <hes>. It's a very delicate balance definitely more art than science. At this point i think using the richard spencer example specifically he views us as a weapon in a war for white supremacy and that's something that we have to take into account and we deal with him. <hes> there's this thing called the overton written window which the right talks about a lot <hes> a better way of colloquially talking about it is called working the refs basically they always want to take <hes> <hes> they viewed that there is a center that is movable that if you move things to the right enough that the center will move along with it and every time people like richard spencer or media manipulators generally and frankly a lot of the right wing media ecosystem right now works in this fashion they view access to mainstream stream press as inability to move entire political ecosystem in their direction and there are people on the left the to this as well. Obviously this is this is a well-worn path but when you allow people to get in unfettered weaponized message out as a way to poison the the pipes basically poisoned the information pipes then you are allowing toxic sewage to go through that pipe so if you allow a man man to you know who's who's a professional manipulator. He's a professional racist like richard. Spencer is to come on and say his precise message in a way that will allow white supremacy to be more accepted. You're doing the work for him. You need to conceptualize who he is. You need to take his you take his weapon away from him. You need to allow him to exist because he is obviously in existence distance and a person who is a newsmaker. You can't allow him to spread his message on his own terms when you we know how dangerous it can be last month n._p._r. Decided to call the number of tweets from president trump directing that group of female lawmakers to go back to their home countries racists the ones we mentioned before the four progressive congresswoman that resulted in an opinion piece that was on n._p._r. Dot org from n._p._r.'s v._p. Of newsroom training and diversity keith woods who used to be with the poynter institute worth noting keith argued that n._p._r. News should not call the president's tweets racist and he discussed it on n._p._r. Podcast podcast code switch if you were applying the standards that we applied to <hes> what the president said sunday i i can't think of how many times we ought to have referred to two languages racist using that standard and and my i overall problem is that we don't really have a standard and i'm not arguing this because we're inconsistent. I'm arguing this because we sit on a very fragile credibility as a profession different from every every other profession out there and that credibility rests in part on the view of the public that we are art maintaining some distance. Our judgments are morals some distance from the things that we're covering. That's n._p._r.'s vice president in the newsroom. Training and diversity keith woods shaneco. How does that compare or contrast with the way that you approach these kinds of stories for me. I came came into the world of generous through sports and so when i was covering say the n._f._l. Or college football. It's very easy to just be like this is what happened. Here's here's what this person said. Here's what the score was. Here's how this playworks at and i'm your i am much more willing to say that something is racist because not not because i think that there is some sort of deep moral power behind calling something racist which i think we're seeing clearly right now that a lotta people who think that they are deeply troubled by racism on all sides of the aisle actually aren't but i think that it is a description. It is not an insult. It is not you you're we've seen a lot of people who seem to be extremely offended by being called racist almost more offended than they would be by the racism itself. It's a description scripture and i think in many cases that we've been seeing more recently. It's accurate. I'm completely willing to say that you're someone who takes part in racist actions ends who puts forward racist policies or with the intent of causing harm to communities of non white people of which i am art. I am completely fine with calling that racist. I mean i didn't go to journalism school but i can see what racism is. J two tweeted personally. I just want to hear the facts and four-mile four-mile opinion but lately. I've noticed that there is a need to educate some folk especially those who've never had to worry about racism. Also i do enjoy it when lying pundits politicians are fact checked in real time kelly. I wonder if there is ever a point from your view in which the ethical guidelines kind of point to we have to say something about that so the first thing you have to do is gathered the evidence you have to report the story you have to report the connections between people who are working in the trump administration and their belief systems and you have to identify who is influencing influencing this president and then when you have all the goods that's when you call it out and that's what we need journalism to do now is not just us to observe but to observe and make conclusions <hes> but you can only do that with a lot of work. It's very very hard to do on cable television television when you have twenty four hours a day to fill it takes a lot of resources and that's what we're we're relying on dream anything you would add to that. I think that the most important thing here you know a lot of stories have recently focused on how racism or racist invective plays among white audiences dances and white voters but not among the people who are most impacted by racist invective and those are communities of color. You know i think that the people who you you know i'm sure you and i and a lot of non white journalists right now our email inboxes look a little bit different than the people we work alongside and that's not even i'm beginning to talk about the people who were killed in el paso the people who were killed at the tree of life synagogue. The bill lives have been shattered by white nationalism even when it doesn't come to <unk> abject violence. I think there's we need to focus on the victims of white nationalism not on whether or not it's politically effective ben anything you would add. I think that's precisely right. I think we have underplayed <hes> what happens to victims in in and we don't check keen on them. After this takes place we don't check in on these families months later because it's no longer in the news but we always check in on on anti-immigrant rhetoric and we always he's checking on if it's <hes> if it's a positive thing or a negative thing about what the president's talking about but we don't we don't talk about the permanent effects. This has has on people once they lose a family member or once they've seen shooting in. Maybe the maybe even they got out alive. We don't talk about that because it's complicated indicated and it doesn't fit in the moment of our new judgment. Ben collins covers disinformation extremism and the internet for n._b._c. news ben. Thanks for spending the hour with us. Thank you kelly mcbride the senior v._p. At the poynter institute and chair of the craig newmark center for ethics and leadership kelly thank you you're welcome jane coast senior politics reporter at vox with focus on white nationalism jane. We appreciate your time. Thanks very much. Thank you so much for having me and univision's washington correspondent. He saw that you've had an under tankage. It's been a busy two days in our entire. Team has come together to put these shows together. You learn more about them at the one eight dot org slash slash staff. This program comes to you from w. a._m._u. Part of american university in washington distributed by n._p._r. Until we meet again i'm joshua johnson. Thanks you're listening. This is one aw this episode is sponsored by the federal communications commission with a message for everyone using a tv antenna to watch local channels plants rescan as is t._v. Broadcast frequencies change for more information go to f._c._c. dot gov slash t._v. rescan.

donald trump president richard spencer kelly mcbride ben collins joshua johnson univision poynter institute united states reporter el paso washington Sarah Mister o'rourke miami New york quarterlane idaho craig newmark new york times idaho
The crackdown on YouTube user comments: It's complicated

Marketplace Tech with Molly Wood

08:44 min | 2 years ago

The crackdown on YouTube user comments: It's complicated

"This marketplace podcast is brought to you by well frame, their digital health management solution connects people and care teams through a patented platform so healthcare organizations can give people the support they need when and where they need it. Learn more at well frame dot com. And by send pro from Pitney Bowes, send pro online software makes it easy to save time and money print shipping, labels and stamps, right? From your desk and access discounted rates. Try it free for thirty days and get a free ten pound scale when you visit PB dot com slash tech. That's BB dot com slash tech. Youtube gets rid of comments on videos, featuring kids kinda good job YouTube from American public media. This is marketplace tech demystifying the digital economy. I'm Molly would. Youtube announced Thursday that it has turned off the comments feature on tens of millions of videos that Beecher young children. This is after a bunch of advertisers pulled out of YouTube because of pedophile flooding the comments sections on videos, featuring young children. So yeah. On that front. This is a very welcome move. But it's also complicated creators on YouTube, but do rely on comments to create their communities, and it can make us a little nervous when platforms that rely on user generated content show how much control they really have Kelly. Mcbride is senior vice president with the Poynter institute for media studies. She says another issue is that tools that scan for certain types of content. Just don't always work as I was looking through a bunch of videos that I'm familiar with because I have children, and they occasionally post things to YouTube. I. I could see the not everything was was caught by YouTube 's mechanism right now. Well, and then I guess that begs the question YouTube has promised screening before Google has alphabet has as a company, you know, we'll figure out a way to screen fake news out of of the Google news product, and it inevitably pops up is it just going to be that much more infuriating for people. If and when these tools don't work, well, what what we can never figure out is when the tools don't work if they don't work because there are so many guardrails on them. So that the tools don't undermine the core. Functionality of the platform, which is to keep you on the platform and to keep serving you up content. So that they can keep serving you ads or if the tools don't work as well as we want them to because it's just hard to engineer them and. We haven't advanced that quickly that fast. So, you know, unless you have an insider who's actually working on these tools telling you, which one it is we just never know from the outside. We generally assume the worst though will. And then, you know, right now, we might all be happy pedophile 's are being stopped. But it will inevitably lead to a conversation about how much power these platforms have over speech, right, right, and political content, which you know, Facebook got really nervous about that. Because Republicans and conservatives were criticizing Facebook. They still seem to be a little spooked by that conversation. But that's alternately. Would it gets to is do you have the ability to screen out certain political messages and boost other political messages, and if you have that ability are you actually doing that does? Is all of this argue for just private spaces. It feels like one of the things that we're finding is that the idea of lives as content that is publicly available and monetize -able and therefore comment. -able might just be not a good idea. Yeah. I mean, the reason that public's faces work is because they can scale and then you can convert them to advertising, but the reason that they don't work for much of the public is because you're just too vulnerable out there too much can happen. So it does argue for for private spaces for subscriber only content, and that, you know, we're already seeing that happen in local news where subscriber revenue is becoming more important than advertising revenue for a completely different reason. But it could be that users. Get more value out of what? They pay for. Well, then what about the kids who want to be YouTubers who think that this is a sort of a path to fame? You know? What should we be telling parents are doing his parents? Yeah. The ethics of it are like what we let children do. I mean, maybe the whole idea of letting children at all become little business. People is warped. You know, it's sort of like when you look at child entertainers, and you're thinking I wonder if that kid really is not being manipulated by people around him. Right. And in this case, it's so. It's easy to draw. This connection to the fact that YouTube makes money. If we explained our children. For ourselves. But with the, you know, in the case of kids, what they are opened up to is so much worse. I mean, at least if they're on television. These comments are not showing up on their shows. Bright, right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, multiple way communication is his bad for children, generally Kelly. Mcbride is senior vice president with the Poynter institute for media studies. One other interesting note YouTube said that when it does allow videos, featuring children to have comments it will require the owner of the video channel to monitor those comments more closely. And now for some related links. I don't want to discount the fact that YouTube disabling comments on any of its videos, let alone millions is in fact, a big deal and a pretty strong move. It speaks to just how much push back the platform has gotten over the past couple of years over the experiences that kids have on YouTube those range from insanely inappropriate videos being planted on YouTube kids to accusations that its recommendation algorithm where it suggests videos for you to keep watching is designed to addict, very young children. And also tends to lead them down a rabbit hole to terrible content, really fast. Plus if keeps rewarding and promoting the world's worst people like Logan and Jake Paul at the end of the day. There's not a lot of incentive for YouTube to do anything drastic to the way the product works. It's supported by advertising, and that advertising depends on video views and all these problems are created by the. For us. But considering the moves YouTube has made to clean things up over the past few months. It seems like the angry advertisers might be starting to make a dent in the incentives now before we go I want to give a huge shout out in a sad. Farewell to met Purdy. He is off to more adventures after an amazing turn producing marketplace. Tech for the past five months, or so Matt, you are awesome. And we'll always have our parrot days. That's the slack joke. Stephanie his back in producing the show every day. You've tro is our senior producer, Sarah gear. And Dan Powell are the engineers. I'm Ali would. This is APN. I'm Shepard from Lincoln Nebraska, and I listened to marketplace several times actually every day because it's got the economic news and developments that are important to me donate the marketplace. So that it can be available to everyone and asked her hope you'll join me in this effort. Thanks to join Shepard. As a marketplace investor donate online, marketplace dot org. This marketplace podcast is brought to you by Cronos known compliments you in their paycheck is correct. But make one mistake, and you risk alienating your entire workforce with Cronos. They make sure your payroll is done, right. The first time from punch to paycheck. Imbedded checklists simplified were close a single source of truth. HR payroll talent and time keeping in one unified system all with a proven implementation approach and simplified transparent pricing. Learn more at Kronos dot com slash payroll. Kronos, workforce innovation that works.

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UK Supreme Court Upholds Ruling that Uber Drivers Are Workers - DTH

Daily Tech Headlines

06:08 min | 5 months ago

UK Supreme Court Upholds Ruling that Uber Drivers Are Workers - DTH

"You're one of a kind and so your taxes that's why turbo tax live has experienced tax experts. Who are ready to listen to you. Learn about your unique tax situation and help you get the best tax outcome. maybe you're moonlighting as a rideshare driver and have questions about what qualifies as a deduction. Maybe you want an expert to walk you through the process since most of your income last year came from freelance jobs. Or maybe you'd like to hand the whole tax filing process off to an expert while you perfect your banana bread recipe whether you want to file with the help of an expert or at an expert do the filing for you. Turbo tax live tax. Experts are here to help giving you the confidence to know that you're one of a kind uniquely you. Taxes are done right into a turbo tax. Live these villi headlines for friday february nineteenth. Twenty twenty one. I'm rich drop elena. The supreme court of the united kingdom unanimously held a lower court ruling. That a group of uber drivers who brought the case in two thousand sixteen are workers not independent contractors. This decision only applies to those twenty five drivers in the case. But that's a precedent with uber. Saying it will consult with all drivers in the uk to understand the changes. They wanna see following a delay forcing a change to its privacy policy. What's plans to display a small inept banner asking users to review its privacy policies over the coming weeks before eventually asking users to accept the updated policy clicking through a summary of the changes with the new policy. How whatsapp works with facebook and stress. That the update doesn't change the privacy of conversations in what's app drivers for the forthcoming invidia. Rtx thirty sixty video card will detect cryptocurrency mining and reduce the hash rate by about fifty percent the company will also offer dedicated cryptocurrency mining processors. Soon or cpm's with no display outputs starting with the thirty eight checks which does twenty-six hashes per second in the forty eight checks at thirty six mega hashes per second available this quarter from vendors with more powerful cards coming next quarter an early analysis twitter's crowd sourced fact checking platform bird. Watch by the poynter institute found that notes rank by birdwatchers algorithm as helpful made up about seven percent of all notes with less than two thirds of helpful notes containing a source link. That wasn't another tweet. Birdwatchers still in a pilot with around one thousand users with two thousand six hundred ninety. Five notes looked at in this analysis apple. Tv's app is now available on chromecast with google tv. I announced back in december. Google also announced the apple. Tv apple come soon to twenty twenty one sony and tcl google tv power. Tv's bloomberg's mark. Gurman sources say apple is working on a magnetically attached battery pack for mexico compatible. Iphones originally scheduled for release in the months following the iphone twelve launch unlike previous batteries from apple. This won't be integrated into a case. Google they built in screen recorder will come to chrome os march. The company also added new accessibility features to its chrome. Vox screen reader. Like improved oriels the ability to search chrome vox menus. It's move voice. Switching and parents can now add their children's school accounts to their personal accounts managed with family link. Google released the first developer preview for android twelve on schedule available on pixel devices from the three on up in the android emulator preview. Include support for the av went image. File format the ability to transport media into higher quality formats faster and more responsive notifications and the ability for developers to toggle individual changes. Easily for testing compatibility. The organizers for the game developer conference announced that twenty twenty one event would be switching from hybrid in-person virtual event to an all digital affair spread out over three separate events. The gdp masterclass will on workshops on march fourth through the fifth the publicly accessible gdp showcase from march fifteenth to nineteenth and the business and networking focus gdp. Twenty twenty. one will take place. The week of july nineteenth the podcast advertising company aka s announced the acquisition of radio public. The company spun out of public radio marketplace. Pr wrecks in two thousand sixteen for an undisclosed sum radio. Public will continue to support. Its podcast app but will work to bring its listener relationship management platform to podcasters aneka which includes custom embedded players and websites for shows. It calls pod sites roku reported q. Revenue grew fifty eight percent of the year to six hundred forty nine point nine million dollars on earnings of forty nine cents per share beating analysts expectations of a five cents loss per share the company's platform business which includes its ad tech grew revenue eighty one percent of the year to four hundred. Seventy one point two million dollars with monetize video and impressions doubling on the ear while revenue from its player hardware. Division grew eighteen percent to one hundred. Seventy eight point seven million dollars. Nikkei sources say why informed its suppliers that it expects smartphone orders to sixty percent in two thousand twenty one down to seventy million units. Idc estimated that in q four twenty twenty while we should thirty two million phones down. Forty-three percent on the year microsoft announced that office. Twenty twenty one will come to mac. Os and windows later this year designed for customers who don't wanna maintain a microsoft three sixty five subscription although full features and changes from office twenty nineteen have not been announced. Microsoft will also release office. Twenty twenty one long term servicing channel for commercial customers with five years of support and a ten percent price increase from twenty nineteen and finally a team of scientists from the san diego zoo global via jen pets and equa on the fish and wildlife service and the conservation group revive and restore successfully cloned black footed ferret named elizabeth an an endangered species. Due in part to a lack of genetic diversity the researchers were able to remove the nucleus from maturing domestic ferret egg and combine it with the cells of long dead black footed ferret and hoped introduce elizabeth grandkids to the wild in twenty twenty five remember discussion of the news of the day subscribed to take new show at new show dot com joe notes and links to all these headlines there as well. Thanks for listening. We'll talk to you next time. And for all of us here at daily tech headlines remember super sparkly day.

apple Google poynter institute uk elena cpm aka s supreme court tcl bloomberg facebook sony twitter mexico
UK Supreme Court Upholds Ruling that Uber Drivers Are Workers  DTH

Daily Tech News Show

06:08 min | 5 months ago

UK Supreme Court Upholds Ruling that Uber Drivers Are Workers DTH

"You're one of a kind and so your taxes that's why turbo tax live has experienced tax experts. Who are ready to listen to you. Learn about your unique tax situation and help you get the best tax outcome. maybe you're moonlighting as a rideshare driver and have questions about what qualifies as a deduction. Maybe you want an expert to walk you through the process since most of your income last year came from freelance jobs. Or maybe you'd like to hand the whole tax filing process off to an expert while you perfect your banana bread recipe whether you want to file with the help of an expert or at an expert do the filing for you. Turbo tax live tax. Experts are here to help giving you the confidence to know that you're one of a kind uniquely you. Taxes are done right into a turbo tax. Live these villi tech headlines for friday february nineteenth. Twenty twenty one. I'm rich drop elena. The supreme court of the united kingdom unanimously upheld a lower court ruling that a group of uber drivers who brought the case in two thousand sixteen are workers not independent contractors. This decision only applies to those twenty twenty-five drivers in the case. But that's a precedent with uber saying it will consult with all drivers in the uk to understand the changes. They wanna see following a delay in forcing a change to its privacy policy. What's plans to display a small inept banner asking users to review its privacy policies over the coming weeks before eventually asking users to accept the updated policy clicking through a summary of the changes with the new policy. How whatsapp works with facebook and stress. That the update doesn't change the privacy of conversations in what's app drivers for the forthcoming in video. Rtx thirty sixty video card will detect cryptocurrency mining and reduce the hash rate by about fifty percent. The company will also offer dedicated cryptocurrency mining processors soon or cpm's with no display outputs starting with the thirty eight checks which does twenty-six hashes per second in the forty eight checks at thirty six mega hashes per second quarter from vendors with more powerful cards coming next quarter an early analysis twitter's crowd sourced fact checking platform bird. Watch by the poynter institute found that notes rank by birdwatchers algorithm as helpful made up about seven percent of all notes with less than two thirds of helpful notes containing a source link. That wasn't another tweet. Birdwatchers still in a pilot with around one thousand users with two thousand six hundred ninety. Five notes looked at in this analysis apple. Tv's app is now available on chromecast with google tv. I announced back in december. Google also announced the apple. Tv apple come soon to twenty twenty one sony and tcl google tv power. Tv's bloomberg's mark. Gurman sources say apple is working on a magnetically attached battery pack for mexico compatible. Iphones originally scheduled for release in the months following the iphone twelve launch unlike previous batteries from apple. This won't be integrated into a case. Google they built in screen recorder will come to chrome os in march. The company also added new accessibility features to its chrome. Vox screen reader like improved. Utah royals the ability to search chrome. Vox menus move voice. Switching and parents can now add their children's school accounts to their personal accounts managed with family link. Google released the first developer preview for android twelve on schedule available on pixel devices from the three on up in the android emulator. This preview include support for the av went image. File format the ability to transport media into higher quality formats faster and more responsive notifications and the ability for developers to toggle individual changes. Easily for testing. Compatibility the organizers for the game developer conference announced that twenty twenty one event would be switching from hybrid in-person virtual event to an all digital affair. Spread out over three separate events. The gdp masterclass will on workshops on march fourth through the fifth the publicly accessible gdp showcase from march fifteenth to nineteenth and the business and networking focus gdp. Twenty twenty one will take place. The week of july nineteenth the podcast advertising company aka s announced the acquisition of radio public. The company spun out of public radio marketplace. Pr wrecks in two thousand sixteen for an undisclosed sum radio. Public will continue to support. Its podcast app but will work to bring its listener. Relationship management platform to podcasters aka which includes custom embedded players and websites for shows. It calls pod sites roku reported q. Revenue grew fifty eight percent of the year to six hundred forty nine point nine million dollars on earnings of forty nine cents per share beating analysts expectations of a five cents loss per share the company's platform business which includes its ad tech grew revenue eighty one percent of the year to four hundred. Seventy one point two million dollars with monetize video and impressions doubling on the ear while revenue from its player hardware. Division grew eighteen percent to one hundred. Seventy eight point seven million dollars. Nikkei sources say why informed its suppliers that it expects smartphone or to sixty percent in two thousand twenty one down to seventy million units. Idc estimated that in q four twenty twenty while we should thirty two million phones down. Forty-three percent on the year microsoft announced that office. Twenty twenty one will come to mac. Os and windows later this year designed for customers who don't wanna maintain a microsoft three sixty five subscription although full features and changes from office twenty nineteen have not been announced. Microsoft will also release office. Twenty twenty one long term servicing channel for commercial customers with five years of support and a ten percent price increase from twenty nineteen and finally a team of scientists from the san diego zoo global via jen pets and equa on the fish and wildlife service and the conservation group revive and restore successfully cloned black footed ferret named elizabeth an an endangered species. Due in part to a lack of genetic diversity the researchers were able to remove the nucleus from maturing domestic ferret egg and combine it with the cells of along dead black footed ferret and hoped introduce elizabeth grandkids to the wild in twenty twenty five remember discussion of the news of the day subscribed to take new show at new show dot com joe notes and links to all these headlines there as well. Thanks for listening. We'll talk to you next time. And for all of us here at daily tech headlines remember super sparkly day.

apple google poynter institute Utah royals united kingdom elena cpm aka s supreme court tcl bloomberg facebook sony twitter
183: Disaster communications for marketers (lessons from Iowa derecho)

Christoph Trappe: Business Storytelling Podcast

18:52 min | 1 year ago

183: Disaster communications for marketers (lessons from Iowa derecho)

"This is the business storytelling podcast with Christopher tra- available on Google spotify apple and Dora and other podcast channels want to play it on your iphone. Just ask Siri to play the KRISTOF trap business storytelling podcast also available on Alexa here's Kristoff today's episode. Business storytellers. It's Christoph trap, your host, and also content performance culture. Thanks for joining me today's topic disaster communications for marketers, and here's why this topic is top of mind for me and it's a different angle than what we typically talk about. When we talk about PR disasters, this is not about PR disaster, but it's about communications doing disasters. So for example, we had the Iowa hurricane the Iowa directo come through here destroy many many buildings ninety percent of the buildings in my city have some kind of damage from the storm hundred up to one hundred, forty, mile an hour. Winds came through here. So as you might imagine, terrible terrible terrible and how do you continue to work as a marketer? When that happens and that's what I want to talk about today. So the way that typically comes about during disasters for marketers is. Thanks or interrupted, and I know I've been there too. You sit here and I go oh, the Internet will always worked the phones lines will always work. I will always be able to get on the Internet. No matter what even if the Wifi is down, I can just hop on. A hot spot, and here's what happened during the Iowa hurricane of twenty. You couldn't do anything. Nothing. There was no power power was out for many many people. Or many days. We have power back relatively quickly when you consider the overall picture. But we lost power to and we're still without Internet. So I'm currently using a hot spot, but there is not I can't do everything on a hot spot. They can't use every device. I, can't use every tool life video doesn't work logging in on anything on my laptop is a pain pain pain paints and. you know I can't do a live video stream I can't do. I can't recorded audio stream on anchor that works I can't still right. I can still share things but something's don't work on mobile very well and. In this disaster I wasn't able to do anything. You know I couldn't get on the Internet. I. Actually got in a car and drove thirty minutes away trying to get into a gas station that was open. That was unaffected and the reality was I stood in line fight on a forty five minutes and I couldn't even get in. Right. So I wanted to get Wifi everybody else want to get gas because, of course, you know once. `electricity down now it's hard to get gas for companies so. But I couldn't work. Right I drove there took me forever sat there for a little while I don't even know it. Half an hour could have been longer I. I didn't really look at the clock, but it was a while and I wasn't even moving and then you know the place was just packed at some point the city set up stations while you could work where you could charge your phones but they were not designed for you to sit there all day. So I didn't just need a place to work for thirty minutes I didn't just need a place to work for a check my out for thirty minutes. You know I needed a place to work and. When this disaster hit, that was really really hard So a couple of things to think about just because a disaster hits just because something happens we still need to think about our disaster related communications and that doesn't mean we always have to put some kind of marketing spin on the disaster but how do we continue operations as a marketing or content team? While we can't even logging. So we'll dive into that a little bit more here after this message. Digital Marketing for your small to medium-sized. Now and drop us a message at C. N. G. L. DOT COM. So there are things you can keep top of mind as you are. Putting together a plan for. First of all, we have to be aware and we have to admit. That the Internet might go out that we might be able to use the same tools that we currently use. And there is actually a very, well written. Story over on pointer. So the POYNTER institute talked about the Gazette Gazette dot com, which is a local newspaper how they put out the paper doing this Iowa Derek. And they didn't have Internet they actually drove a thumb drive up and down the interstate to get stories back I mean talk about let's welcome to the nineteen nineties I. Mean I, remember doing that. Using a little radio shack thing that you put over phone and you send things. Through the phone line basically didn't work about half the time. Other Times you would just drag back I mean I do remember that I had. A cell phone when I was a police reporter. But. It was not like a smartphone. It was really just for phone calls. So, I had to come back to check my email and had to come back to check the fax. I. Had to come back to do some of those things that we now take for granted So it's not like we haven't been there before, but we haven't done that for a while. So the gazette reporters and photojournalists they actually logged into they plug directly into the server right? They drove to the printing press they plugged in five slots I think something like that, and then they were able to put up the paper that way what's interesting about the paper Is I'm I'm a subscriber, but I don't get the print paper I. Get the. Green Edition Rights, I read it in the APP, and then I also read on the website and of course, all those thinks were off the table when I didn't have Internet, I couldn't see anything I couldn't read it. You know. So the printed paper in that scenario would have been very helpful and of course, we have a lot of school districts that are impacted by. by the storm buildings are damaged school School years are now being moved their starting later. So they have a chance to fix the buildings. Of course if there's no internet. Remote learning is another problem. Right how is that going to work? If you don't even have comp- If you don't have Internet, will you don't have computers? How's that going to work some people lost their computers in the storm. So. All those different things come top of mind the reason I've been ups for marketers and I'll jump into how marketers can Use these tricks and tips when it comes to their own. Marketing during disaster. And and really I want to be very clear. The distinction here today is this is when you or your company is affected by disaster. How do you adjust how do you communicate with your customers? How do you communicate with your prospects? The one example that comes to my mind I had some campaigns running and they need to be updated in response to what was happening, but I couldn't get on right so. That's sometimes why remote teams are very, very helpful because. So for example I, you know it stay mates I, worked with teams in. San. Francisco. Minneapolis. Cedar rapids a Baltimore and so that help with time zones, right east coast acres get started a little earlier the west coast they could finish thanks for us later. And you had a lot of coverage and of course, in the case of. You could move things to those different offices. Now, somehow you gotTA figure out a way for to let them know that you're expected. And you know at the beginning of this whole thing, the phone lines didn't even work I called my insurance adjuster back and she couldn't hear me right. She texted me I couldn't even text her back. So at some point, hopefully, they'll figure out what's going on and they just jump in and take it from there, and that's that's why you need to have some continuity some planning some teamwork. You can't just have these silly silos where one person knows everything or one person. Has the keys to the kingdom. That's why that's important. But that to the school district. So I actually listen to the school board meeting school district, which is where we live. And lots of damage in the school district I think every building was damaged and somebody said, do we need to send letters to everybody and so that's seventy seven hundred students. Or families. And how do you do that quickly? How do you even print that? If you don't have power, how how'd you get it to the printer? How do you? How do you do anything? So what the school district did is they started a robo call with the updates, and so it was a very well written message that was spoken by the Superintendent Very. Compassionate. Very helpful. I gave all the details and it literally called every phone number in. The school district, my wife got I than I. got it. And then they took the message and they send an email with that same message senator everybody and then they put it on social media. Now again, if people don't have Internet, they don't get it right but hopefully, they can get it through the phone system and especially now where most people have cellphones or many people have cell phones maybe. maybe the message is safe there until services restored even if they don't get it that second. So this is another reason why it might be helpful to have a phone numbers for your customers phone numbers for the people you're currently working with. So they know what's going on so they can tell you they can. You can reach them one way or another. Now if somebody has not converted yet somebody is not a customer yet they're very high up in the final you really need to. Communicate with them at that stage probably not can you just pause your marketing for a little bit absolutely but if somebody is like really moving forward, you know they're ready to buy. You're already talking with them actively You know you WANNA make sure that they get the right message and sometimes the other thing to think about is I tweeted about this the other day see trap on twitter. You don't want to send people to. Broken websites. So for example, if your website is down and you're running a campaign. Don't send people there. Don't spend google at dollars don't spend social media dollars right shut those campaigns down until your website is up now I get it most companies. Now, their website is in house necessarily worth their house, but with all these disastrous going on even with clout. Being in the cloud and all those things, there's still a chance that your website can't be down. So you need to have a backup plan that. When something happens how how would you shut things down or how do you How do you move it to different offices? So that's why the reason why it is actually very helpful to to have different team members that can jump in and and help with different campaigns. Something to think about. Can you think of every scenario? Absolutely Matt here the the. Emergency officials I think it was hard for them to get their message to people because you know we're very much in the digital age I mean, they went out and they handed out taper flyers. But how do you cover an area of like the whole county how it's impossible right? So so there will be some problems that. Won't work you can't stop campaign before you have to or somebody might not notice right away that another office needs help but if you still need any conviction a any convincing. That having team members distributive model is helpful This might just be another reason why that super helpful when something happens that everybody is affected not everybody's. powers down not everybody's is down and you can move things around or. Again prioritize but it's keep that in mind. Thinks happen. Would I have? admitted a month ago. That an inland hurricane that's not the official title might meteorologist friends or scolding bead. That's not what it's called. But that's what it's like an Iowa inland hurricane hundred and forty mile an hour winds and you know if you just look at all the different stories out there, it's just the devastation that damage. It's just unbelievable and. I'm still have a plane have a plan for backing things up the other thing is too. Sometimes we'll working on things right life and I was actually doing that as this was hitting I was working on something and I finished but then I needed to make update on how do you make that update when stuff happens right. So something to think about to have a plane to keep things. And and to have multiple ways to reach especially your customers. Because let's be honest. Customer retention is also part of good marketing and certainly in some organizations that falls under customer success or customer relations or something like that or account directors But at the end of the day, how do we communicate with? Our customers when stuff like this happens I hope everybody stays safe. I know we have as recording this. There is now two. Tropical storms coming into the Gulf of Mexico. So the first time I guess in history potential to hurricanes hitting the Gulf of Mexico. Coast of the United States for the first time ever twenty twenty. Seriously of one star year has really truly been a terrible year and that doesn't mean we should move forward guys. That doesn't. We shouldn't keep our chin up and figure out a way to stay relevant and figure out a way to you know Moving forward you know one thing if you haven't seen it actually put together a twenty twenty one star t shirt. Wouldn't recommended ride like a review. If you check that out, it's available on Amazon see trap that online Ford slash shirt see trap dot online forward slash shirt alright. Hey, plan but more importantly than having a plan is out a way to run quickly. So you certainly can brainstorm you certainly can't try to react s things are happening for example I thought let's go somewhere else but you couldn't go anywhere else everything is closed or damaged, right? It's either closed or not open for Dinan because of Kovic So it is helpful to have some kind of plan when Steph really really really happens and I think it's getting harder and harder since we're so dependent on the Internet and since we're so dependent on our mobile devices, and then the next thing is when there was no power, we couldn't even charge our mobile devices. So that's another problem to think about I. Still you know we have a couple of months chargers, but they don't last forever right. So if we wouldn't have had power for thirteen days that wouldn't afford either that would have been you know we would have been out. So. Plain. Find a way to do the best you can. And you know certainly don't forget about those automatic campaigns and I know automation is making our life easier when it works but. we need to think about the messaging we need to think about how it works on the current situation, and of course, also, who is who supervising it if we're totally off the grid stay safe stay healthy best of luck to everyone affected by any disaster anywhere and of course, the colored pandemic is still. Going strong unfortunately. KRISTOFF trap your host, any questions, thoughts, comments, drop me an email see trap a g. Dot Com or text three, one, nine, three, eight, nine, nine, eight, five, three until then. Content from happening to performing that's what everybody wants nowadays, and content and content marketing and marketing all those related fields. Check out my new book content performance culture the number one new release in the public relations category on Amazon, Dot Com. When it came out I, hope you take a look it's available as paperback and kindle worldwide.

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Broken Facts Machine - DTNS 3732

Daily Tech News Show

31:37 min | 1 year ago

Broken Facts Machine - DTNS 3732

"Coming up on S. L. shows off. Its Scroll -able mobile device screen you can get a robot to request companies. Delete your data and then have the robot. Sue them if they don't and a big fat check dispute hit space. This is daily Tech News for March. Fifth Twenty Twenty in Los Angeles. I'm John Merit and from Stool Redwood. I'm Sarah Lane from Oakland California. I'm Justin Robert. Young and on the show's producer. Roger Chang we were just talking about Oh all kinds of stuff. Justin Tales from the road Dentist Appointments Justin's birthday being today. Happy Burg Ami. You can get all of that by becoming a member and getting good day. Internet the lighter show at Patriotair Dot com slash. Ns Let's start with a few things you should know. Amazon and facebook have shut down their Seattle area offices after confirming that workers at both companies had contracted Cova Nineteen Amazon recommends that all Seattle and Bellevue Washington. Employees work from home. Facebook encourages Seattle employees to work from home. Google asked all of its employees in Washington state to work from home and yes Microsoft will let all of its Seattle and even San Francisco Area. Employees work from home. Twitter announced that it's expanded. Its rules around prohibited speech to include language that dehumanizes people on the basis of their age disability or disease new tweets that. Break these rules can result in account suspension vulnerability that impacts the Intel converged security and management. Engine's semi is worse than originally thought and the patch that was issued in. May Two thousand nineteen does not fully fix the issue the CSM CRIP. Graphically verifies and authenticates all the firmware running on a system and Marla from positive technologies found. The bug can be exploited by malware with root privileges to recover the chipset key and grant an attacker access to everything on a device previously. It was thought you needed physical access to exploit the vulnerability but apparently that's not the case. So for sensitive systems the only recourse is to replace the hardware and only Intel's tenth generation. Chips are free of this vulnerability. Samsung is launching. It's eight K and four K Q lead TV lineup in the US. There's a few different models but the flagship model is the Q. Nine five zero t s comes in sixty five inch seventy five inch and eighty five inch models running act seven sixty eighty four four forty three twenty eight a resolution the full array local demean or fault for short to maximize HDR quality and Pete Brightness by up to twenty percent over last year's models the TV's offer support for both amd's open source free sink and Invidia adjacent technology for gaming and contain a neural network for upscaling powered by the quantum processor. Two Point Eight K to play four K. programming. Because you know there's so much of that already know exact price or release dates just yes ball til you fall. The South Korean National Assembly unanimously passed an amendment to the country's financial services law that would authorize Korea's financial regulators to provide a framework for the regulation and legalization of crypto currencies and crypto exchanges. Regulators will develop rules around anti money laundering and other processes but loosen restrictions it placed on blockchain adoption during the crypto boom. Several years ago even way career well done and Anthony Lindau Ski. The former employees of Google and Uber's autonomous car units has been ordered to pay one hundred seventy nine million dollars to Google for unfair competition and a breach of a legal obligations Levin Ski and Leo Ron. Who settled separately with Google? Started their own autonomous car company bringing over Google employees and then sold the company to Uber Levin Taos Ski is also under federal indictment for stealing trade secrets from Google. That's a different case. Levin Danske filed for chapter eleven bankruptcy after the decision all right. Let's talk a little more about something. Duck duck do go is doing to help. Other competitors protect your privacy. Indeed duck duck go has been collecting data about online trackers and has created a data set called tracker radar that it will Share with other companies to help protect user. Privacy Tracker radar has five thousand. Three hundred and twenty six domains from one thousand seven hundred twenty seven companies browser maker. Vivaldi says that it has begun using the data set to protect its users tracker radar data will be updated monthly duck duck go also sells an optional license for help using the data and Dr Grow Says Volley won't be the last two they have some other folks that are interested in taking advantage of this Pretty good to make it open Pretty smart to say. And if you want help with it you know we can make some money off it that way but otherwise we're just sharing the wealth so to speak as a way to help make people in general safer from tracking which is what. Dr Go builds. Its brand on their you care about this that it makes the duck duck. Go look better in the public is well. It's so funny that the online advertising world is so profitable that now there is a side hustle against online advertising right and make money stopping online advertising money. There is in. This is that there is money to stop it. Bloomberg's Mark Gherman reports. That apple told technical support staff at it stores that replacement iphones for damaged devices will be in short supply for two to four weeks. Staff were apparently told they could offer may offer to mill replacement devices when they arrive and offer loner devices. In the meantime some Bloomberg sources indicate replacement parts have also started to run low. This is mostly just a public service announcement. If you're thinking you might need to take your phone in or if you drop your phone break it and need to take it into an apple store You may not get it replaced right away. Which usually that has been the case. Because they're they're running running short because of the supply chain issues with the virus. Yeah and I've been there many times and usually it's sort of. I need this done right now. You know what kind of a situation. I wonder what the loaner device situation is because I have not historically known apple to be like. Yeah we got a refurbished iphone ten in the back here. We'll just give it to you until the part comes in. Yeah that's not. That has not been their situation in the past and Gherman sources. Don't make it clear. What the loaner device would be. My guess is either. They have a limited number of current iphones. That are set aside to be circulated soon as somebody gets their replacement than they handed off to the next one or it could be older different model. Iphones which is you know like you brought in an iphone. Ten S to be to be fixed. All they have is an iphone seven. Which isn't good enough for replacement but but at least you have something. Yeah exactly yeah but we don't know what that's about although I do want to highlight again because I think we're GonNa see more stories like this that we are seeing the supply chain issues from the corona virus. Come home that these are the kind of real world effects that you don't think of it when it's a far off a city in China that suffering from it you you suffer from it when you're screens cracked and you can't get it fixed today. Tc L. showed off to prototype devices with flexible screens. The first we saw. Yes that's the trifold phone. Six point six five inch phone. That folds down kind of unfolds. Three ways into a ten inch tablet. The phone uses two distinct hinges to fold flat. Tcl demonstrated using it as a two pane. Fold as well the other device however is a sliding design with a screen. That rolls up into the back of the phone. So it's G- rolls out. A dummy device was demo by TCL and a video concept showed a motorized screen unrolling at the push of a button but dummy device. You had to pull out yourself. Tcl says it's experimenting with a dozen or so form factors and has no time for any of these devices to come to market. But I love the scalable. I've been asking for a scalable since I was doing buzz out loud at seen it more than a decade ago. This scrabble screen just seems like the best way to go because hinges are tricky but if you can make them work they just they hide away. They're really nice like a pot door. I applaud you for even thinking of a concept like this ten years ago because when I saw the for anybody. Who's like scalable wha- I mean don't you screw on your phone anyway? No it's the phone itself gets bigger and smaller scrolling in and out of itself. It is pretty cool and yes. This is a dummy device. But once I saw I was like Oh my goodness I had never thought about this yeah. I'm so I'm so focused on whether foldable phones or the right way to go scroll liberal. Phones are much more fun. Yeah think things scroll less like the gesture you make with your finger at four hundred which meant like the argument. That unfold unfurled as it gets a longer. I mean this seems a lot more. Structurally safe than hinges. Which have continued to have problems? And and we're now finding out that the rubber is kind of Once now that the rubber met the road it might not be ready for prime time. But I guess my larger question with all of this is is there a hunger for an I'll say novelty but but I guess I could probably be more than say experimental form factors like this are people excited for it either as a fashion accessory or as something that you could build a killer application on top practically speaking. I have wanted at from time to time the ability to just have my small phone that I can fit my pocket. Yeah able to have a bigger screen when I wanted to when. I'm reading a book or a comic book or playing a video. So that's where I think. A scroll or Shall I say unfurl lable screen earl -able is would be amazing right because you don't have to fold it up and then now it's twice as thick. It would have been it. Just it just rolls up into a corner of the phone can get bigger or smaller earning. It could actually have multiple sizes dream rate. You've got your phone. You've got your tablet all one thing Apple updated its APP store review guidelines. Those now stayed. The developers must admit new and updated. Apps using the IRS thirteen sdk implement sign in with apple for APPs that author of that that offer other services to log in with both starting April thirtieth. Twenty Twenty Bob will also announced that new apps in the dating and fortune telling categories will be rejected unless they provide a quote unique high quality experience and quote developers will also no longer be able to use custom notifications to ask for a user review. They'll have to use the. Api APPS can now send advertising push notifications if a user authorizes them and away to opt out is provided. Yeah the dating enforcing tailings a little weird until you consider that people just span the APP store with low quality APPS Let's say they're dating so they're just trying to crack down on that but the push notifications has some people very angry. A lot of people do not like the idea. That APPS will be able to send you an advertisement even if you can tell them not to. They're worried that they'll package the advertising notifications in with other notifications. That you want to trick you too getting them etc etc. I'll be honest. I've gotten ads as notifications from apps before even though they weren't supposed to be allowed so really. I'm I'm kind of glad that apple has set some rules to say. Look we know you guys are going to try to do it anyway. So here are the rules to follow. Yeah absolutely and I actually applaud. Apple has been very Customer I in terms of trying to corral a push notifications in general. I think that the additions to the newest versions of that alert you that hey. You don't seem to respond to these kinds of of a push notifications. Do you want to see them at all is something that has been helpful so yeah? I think from the developer side. Giving them an opportunity to do it if somebody wants to opt into it is good right but for the people complaining but good sweet sweet molasses life. Well I think it's exasperation really I mean. How many times have you seen some sort of notification where you're like okay? I'm going to go into my stadium. Suspects that happens all the time. And it's not because I changed my mind about letting an APP send me notifications it just Kinda. I Dunno fell through the cracks so when people see this and then they say it's going to be some sort of upsell than I can see why it's an annoyance but it is really just an annoyance because you do have control over your own notifications as long as you want to take. That isn't here it from the screen like you can do it from the from from the alert screen now like you don't even have to go into your settings and find the APP and turn off the Bush notifications. You can do it at the point of exasperation I get it. If they didn't have those I would say that that that this is going to lessen the experience but come on people. There's already plenty of toggles. Do Not pay remember the robot lawyer service that started disputing parking tickets for you. It's expanded to multiple services like canceling streaming services. That's always annoying requesting compensation from airlines poor customer service stuff like that. The latest service from do not pay called digital health automates the process of requesting. Your data be deleted under the California Consumer Privacy Act the system contacts more than one hundred data brokers and requests. Your data be deleted shows. You what data they collected and can even file legal paperwork to sue. If companies fail to comply do not pay cost three bucks per month for access to all of it services. Yeah if you haven't checked in do not pay in a while go to do not pay dot com you can schedule your appointment with the DMV in Texas and California Arizona and North Carolina. You can you can block robocalls and sue people who do robocalls like when I say do this. I mean you can just tell the robot do that and then it does all the work. Yeah Yeah there's a billion company I I use them a few times or maybe it wasn't do not pay but it was one of his somebody with parking tickets because back when I had four it was called. Do not pay because that's how it started another name. Yeah and then they had to stop operating in Oakland because I guess too. Many people were using it then. There was some kind of dispute with the local government. Who knows I don't know if they're back anyhow? A brilliant idea absolutely loved it and I look forward to do more Interaction with this concept for three dollars a month. I want to sue robocaller and I'm I'm happy to work with. Do not pay I. Also you know stuff like oh the airline you know. You had a bad experience on now. How often do you go back and get your five dollars back? Because the WIFI sucked I mean. Some people are probably really diligent about that. I tend to just go. It's going to be such a nightmare. I'm GonNa be on the phone with someone from United for like twenty minutes again. It's the convenience. Sometimes it's worth it. The the effect of this will be to change those policies because right now they have a policy so they can point to it but they know no one will go to the trouble of going through the steps to make it happen. But now that you don't have to go to the trouble you can have the robot do it for you. Maybe more people start taking advantage of it. Then you start to see these policies change we we start seeing those policies change or we start to see companies saying you we will not accept. Robots submitted complaints That's when you do not pay. His really made a big. Yeah all right folks if you want to get all the tech headlines each day but you only got five minutes to spare. We have the solution daily tech headlines. Go get it. Daily Tech Dot Com. We're GONNA talk about the facebook fact checking problem. That is occurring this week. There's a controversy as Justin has foretold. This could never work perfectly forever and we have our first. It's not the first problem. But it's the first big showdown between a fact checking entity and a big publisher. Here's what happened. Facebook's fact checking partners have been certified through the Poynter Institute's Nonpartisan International Fact Checking Network. So these are not picked facebook. They're picked by a highly respected Journalistic Agency. Anyone who has picked by the IFC N can then label a story partly false label it as having a false headline or just say the things false. There's there's other categories like satire. In opinion too but as far as false goes those are your three choices and it only takes one partner to do that. There are different partners in different regions. The partners in the United States are. Afp United States the Associated Press. Check your fact fact. Check DOT ORG lead. Story's political science feedback and Reuters fact. Check check your fact is a subsidiary of a conservative publication called the daily caller. And this week. The president of the United States was speaking about the corona virus and said now the Democrats are politicizing. The Corona Vice. You know that right corona virus they're politicizing. We did one of the great jobs. They tried the impeachment hoax. That was on a perfect conversation. They tried anything. They tried it over and over. They've been doing it since you got in. It's all turning. They lost its alternative. Think of think of it and this is their new hoax slopes rated that quote from the President has mixed saying quote despite creating some confusion with his remarks. Trump did not call the corona virus itself hoax now. Snow is not one of the fact checking organizations working with facebook. They are used by a lot of people and snow. Said didn't call the corona virus itself a hoax. But it was confusing. Politico wrote a story. Headline Trump is based to treat corona virus as a hoax. Nbc News wrote a story headlined. Trump's calls corona virus Democrat's new hoax. Check your fact rated both headlines as false on facebook with the explanatory note trump actually described democratic complaints about his handling of the virus threat as a hoax now political and NBC News. Took issue with this saying no we were describing a quote and we don't think it was false check. Your facts said well we do. Publishers have only one route to appeal on facebook's labeling it's to go to the fact checking agency itself in this case check your act and ask them to reconsider the only other remedy would be to try to get the IFC EH. Poynter institute's arm to reject the fact checking entity entirely for failure to meet its guidelines which. That's a big thing to prove. So who you think is right in this case whether it's check your fact politico NBC News. There's somebody else that's not the issue for us. The heat of this controversy is this is the first big case where you have. The vetted fact checking agency that facebook has deemed to be appropriate at odds with not small blogs not leftist publications but mainstream publications over something that they say. Look that's that's not right. What your headline is not correct. Justin you've been saying for a long time that this was going to happen Where where are you sitting with this sitting Tom? You can't sit when you're taking a victory lap. Exactly what I'm doing right now because say it with me. Everybody the idea that you can try to police this especially if you're trying to deputise other people to do it is a Hashtag. Hell Portal Hashtag portable. Hell it's both at the same time. There's no there is no doubt in my mind that this was going to end here for the following reasons regardless again about the facts of this When you are in a world where you are deputising outlets content outlets to be the ones that determine whether something is a factor not maybe misleading. Maybe with some kind of tag but the idea you are so concerned about whether or not there are lies told on the Internet that you are putting these people in charge and giving them such a authoritative language. Thanks to your platform was always going to end up in in disaster. Because Tom in your experience in this industry of Tech Journalism. How excited by your estimation do reporters get when they are reported on by another outlet? Quite quite excited excited may not be exactly the right word but there is excitement. Yes angry would be the way that I would. I would In any in any instance in any form of journalism journalists it's one of the great quirks of the industry. Journalists hate being reported on by other reporters they hate having Their work challenge and this is literally just that. This kind of conflict was inevitable beyond that like the beyond the fact that this was always going to be a surface fight. It's just hard. It's very hardy. In fact I would say it might be an impossible. Task do determine with authoritative language facts on the Internet. It is it is far more complicated than than anybody who really pays attention to this. Just barely base it into this. Kind of story would like to admit this. Is the issue right right here today? Everybody agrees that obviously untrue story should be labeled false. There's there's not the right way when someone says you know. The president of the United States isn't alien. We're like that's not true. Every everyone agrees that the plausibly untrue stuff that is you know when you scratch the surface. Not True like this person was fired and then you find out. We'll know they weren't that stuff should be labeled false. It's these edge cases that are the ones that are difficult. So yeah you risk throwing the baby and the bathwater out at same time. If you say well you can't check any facts because there are things that are untrue that these organizations can be good at finding but where you draw the line as where you always have a problem and if you noticed the fact checking organizations in the United States I mentioned. Were not the the news organizations? They were fact checking arms of gains organizations or fact checking institutes of their own that just stand on their own like from the Annenberg school or something like that. So facebook's try to do it right there like we're GonNa get people who do this for a living. We're going to get them from across the spectrum so that it's not just one perspective on what's true and what's not and the fact of the matter is you're always going to have these edge cases now just an are you saying that means. You shouldn't do it at all or should it just be like well occasionally at this is going to happen and we take that as a cost of doing business. I tend to lean toward the harder. You work at this the the more. You're trying to squeeze in more falls through your fingers. It doesn't do it. Then they're they`re. They're facing worse criticism from people. Aren't they sword? Yeah then he's worse criticism. I mean like I think there is a expectation that we have as consumers as to what facebook can do that. I think is unreasonable that they should not be held to the idea that that everything that might be ally can be can be filtered out. There's again I do think that it's very hard now you're right out and out falsehoods like Hillary Clinton dead at the age of fifty one or something like that comes out tomorrow. Yes that's something that can and should be marked in weeded out. I think that there are different than that. That's a different problem to solve for other than getting into a situation where you are fighting over intentionally sensational headlines like I think the politico and NBC News are great organizations that do great work at the same time that political headline is written to be clicked on it all like all headlines are all yes and some of the best are intentionally there so people are like wait what click on it go and interact with it especially there's other goes viral and facebook. The last I'll add to this because I know people out there thinking it is well. Why don't you get rid of the fact checking organizations that run afoul and that is up to the international checking network? The poynter institute is fairly well respected and even if you disagree with them as a result of this story. They're saying that these agencies are reliable so if they're saying that and they're not willing to change their mind because of this one story which honestly is not that crazy. It's you know it's not out of the realm of possibility. It's not like they labeled something. Demonstrably true is false or vice versa. Confusing statement then. Hope to me that that is this working right. You're going to have these controversies if this kind of thing is happening well controversial or not. A lot of people submit wonderful stories to our sub reddit and we thank you every day. You could submit something that you think is worth our time and vote on others. Daily Tech News. Show DOT READY DOT com. Let's move onto Chris. Christianson are amateur traveller. Who has a tip for finding work remotely? This is Chris Christensen from Ama- traveler with another tech in travel minute. If you have a job that you can do remotely you want to do. So just because the corona viruses out there or maybe because you WanNa do it near a tropical beach you can search for remote jobs either on a specialized search engine like flex jobs dot com or when you go to one of the regular job sites like indeed dot com instead of putting in your location put in remote and you can find a job. Might let you travel at the same time. I'm Chris Christensen from amateur traveler. Man Chris Christopherson he's He's facing difficult times with reduced. Travel on the rise here but Nice work finding a way to to make lemons at eliminate there. I'll let's check out the MAILBAG. Let's do it. We had a discussion yesterday. About what makes a good coder and The Answer Minister Prize. You adjacent from Chicago wrote. I can attest to reasoning being as important as math skills in programming. I've working software engineer for thirty five years. I was a liberal arts major with a concentration in math. I knew I wanted to do software. But my school didn't have a concentration. In retrospect I did better being more general. I can't remember any of the math but the training problem solving has stayed with me. I have a mantra for any of my teams which says think about the problem. Not The solution and Ian followed up with his own experience in the late Seventies. He says I was an Undergrad in college and worked as a computer lab assistant. I would help students with programming. Basis basic I found a near perfect correlation between the person's skills with programming and their proficiency in doing proofs in high school geometry. I mentioned this to a professor. He suggested I write a paper about it. That never came about but I always felt that the same skill set was used in both thought processes. This is similar to the field of logic as taught in math and philosophy Got A lot of Passionate responses all over the scale on this so thank you and as we said yesterday more study indicated but but an interesting study nonetheless. Yeah thanks for all the feedback. Everybody also thanks and a special shout out to patrons that our master and grandmaster levels including Mike mcglaughlin Philip less. And Frederick Huber Hubner. Rather sorry Frederick. Also thanks to Justin Robert Young for being with us. Justin not only is your birthday. But you're back in the studio sleeping in your bed. It's been a wild week or so. Oh boy has it. Sarah of course you can catch all of the Latest political stuff at About politics wherever podcasts are found you can support a directly at take politics seriously dot com but there is one thing that I forgot to tell Roger to put on the sheet. And that is you guys heard me a few weeks ago. Talk about my history podcast. Raise the dead That is all about the Nixon versus Kennedy election in nineteen sixty the lessons that we could have learned for twenty sixteen trump versus Clinton and now for the first time. Ever you can listen to it as an audio book. So if you've got if you if you Have an audible subscription. I know a lot of people listening. Do had on over there. It's a five and a half hour experience so I'm not GonNa waste one of your credits with something like a half hour forty five minutes and even if you've already listened to it there is a bonus episode a full length bonus episode all about the Kennedys relationship to the mob and Frank Sinatra. If you like that more glittering crime side of the story then you're going to very much enjoy the bonus episode available now on audible raise the dead Nixon versus Kennedy and I. I got a sneak peek of that episode. That's one of my favorites of the whole series. So it's absolutely worth it. Hey if you're not an audible subscriber there's a million ways to get a free audiobook. Here's a chance cash in get raised the dead for free and then if you stick around got a book coming out on audible. March twenty fourth US keep it rolling been three months since we started the counter on people getting a sticker poster a Mug or a t shirt with a special six year anniversary logo on it. And the first batch is headed to the factory to get printed mailed out to about one hundred seventy four patrons. You can join them folks. It's not too late. Start that clock. Ticking for your three month reward get some cool stuff and insider perks on top of it. The details Patriot dot com slash slash merch. Our email address feedback at Daily News. Show DOT com. Thanks for all the feedback. We live you guys. We're also live Monday through Friday at four thirty PM EASTERN. That's twenty one thirty ut and you can find out more act daily tech new show. Dot Com slash. Live back tomorrow with Nicole. Lee is our guest. The show is part of the broadband network. Get more at frog pants. Dot Com enjoyed this broader.

Facebook United States Google apple Poynter Institute Justin Roger Chang Oakland California Intel Seattle Politico Patriotair Dot president Trump Twitter Samsung Twenty Twenty Nbc News
Broken Facts Machine  DTNS 3732

Daily Tech News Show

31:37 min | 1 year ago

Broken Facts Machine DTNS 3732

"Coming up on S. L. shows off. Its Scroll -able mobile device screen you can get a robot to request companies. Delete your data and then have the robot. Sue them if they don't and a big fat check dispute hit space. This is daily Tech News for March. Fifth Twenty Twenty in Los Angeles. I'm John Merit and from Stool Redwood. I'm Sarah Lane from Oakland California. I'm Justin Robert. Young and on the show's producer. Roger Chang we were just talking about Oh all kinds of stuff. Justin Tales from the road Dentist Appointments Justin's birthday being today. Happy Burg Ami. You can get all of that by becoming a member and getting good day. Internet the lighter show at Patriotair Dot com slash. Ns Let's start with a few things you should know. Amazon and facebook have shut down their Seattle area offices after confirming that workers at both companies had contracted Cova Nineteen Amazon recommends that all Seattle and Bellevue Washington. Employees work from home. Facebook encourages Seattle employees to work from home. Google asked all of its employees in Washington state to work from home and yes Microsoft will let all of its Seattle and even San Francisco Area. Employees work from home. Twitter announced that it's expanded. Its rules around prohibited speech to include language that dehumanizes people on the basis of their age disability or disease new tweets that. Break these rules can result in account suspension vulnerability that impacts the Intel converged security and management. Engine's semi is worse than originally thought and the patch that was issued in. May Two thousand nineteen does not fully fix the issue the CSM CRIP. Graphically verifies and authenticates all the firmware running on a system and Marla from positive technologies found. The bug can be exploited by malware with root privileges to recover the chipset key and grant an attacker access to everything on a device previously. It was thought you needed physical access to exploit the vulnerability but apparently that's not the case. So for sensitive systems the only recourse is to replace the hardware and only Intel's tenth generation. Chips are free of this vulnerability. Samsung is launching. It's eight K and four K Q lead TV lineup in the US. There's a few different models but the flagship model is the Q. Nine five zero t s comes in sixty five inch seventy five inch and eighty five inch models running act seven sixty eighty four four forty three twenty eight a resolution the full array local demean or fault for short to maximize HDR quality and Pete Brightness by up to twenty percent over last year's models the TV's offer support for both amd's open source free sink and Invidia adjacent technology for gaming and contain a neural network for upscaling powered by the quantum processor. Two Point Eight K to play four K. programming. Because you know there's so much of that already know exact price or release dates just yes ball til you fall. The South Korean National Assembly unanimously passed an amendment to the country's financial services law that would authorize Korea's financial regulators to provide a framework for the regulation and legalization of crypto currencies and crypto exchanges. Regulators will develop rules around anti money laundering and other processes but loosen restrictions it placed on blockchain adoption during the crypto boom. Several years ago even way career well done and Anthony Lindau Ski. The former employees of Google and Uber's autonomous car units has been ordered to pay one hundred seventy nine million dollars to Google for unfair competition and a breach of a legal obligations Levin Ski and Leo Ron. Who settled separately with Google? Started their own autonomous car company bringing over Google employees and then sold the company to Uber Levin Taos Ski is also under federal indictment for stealing trade secrets from Google. That's a different case. Levin Danske filed for chapter eleven bankruptcy after the decision all right. Let's talk a little more about something. Duck duck do go is doing to help. Other competitors protect your privacy. Indeed duck duck go has been collecting data about online trackers and has created a data set called tracker radar that it will Share with other companies to help protect user. Privacy Tracker radar has five thousand. Three hundred and twenty six domains from one thousand seven hundred twenty seven companies browser maker. Vall di says that it has begun using the data set to protect its users tracker radar data will be updated monthly duck duck go also sells an optional license for help using the data and Dr Grow Says Volley won't be the last two they have some other folks that are interested in taking advantage of this Pretty good to make it open Pretty smart to say. And if you want help with it you know we can make some money off it that way but otherwise we're just sharing the wealth so to speak as a way to help make people in general safer from tracking which is what. Dr Go builds. Its brand on their you care about this that it makes the duck duck. Go look better in the public is well. It's so funny that the online advertising world is so profitable that now there is a side hustle against online advertising right and make money opping online advertising money. There is in. This is that there is money to stop it. Bloomberg's Mark Gherman reports. That apple told technical support staff at it stores that replacement iphones for damaged devices will be in short supply for two to four weeks. Staff were apparently told they could offer may offer to mill replacement devices when they arrive and offer loner devices. In the meantime some Bloomberg sources indicate replacement parts have also started to run low. This is mostly just a public service announcement. If you're thinking you might need to take your phone in or if you drop your phone break it and need to take it into an apple store You may not get it replaced right away. Which usually that has been the case. Because they're they're running running short because of the supply chain issues with the virus. Yeah and I've been there many times and usually it's sort of. I need this done right now. You know what kind of a situation. I wonder what the loaner device situation is because I have not historically known apple to be like. Yeah we got a refurbished iphone ten in the back here. We'll just give it to you until the part comes in. Yeah that's not. That has not been their situation in the past and Gherman sources. Don't make it clear. What the loaner device would be. My guess is either. They have a limited number of current iphones. That are set aside to be circulated soon as somebody gets their replacement than they handed off to the next one or it could be older different model. Iphones which is you know like you brought in an iphone. Ten S to be to be fixed. All they have is an iphone seven. Which isn't good enough for replacement but but at least you have something. Yeah exactly yeah but we don't know what that's about although I do want to highlight again because I think we're GonNa see more stories like this that we are seeing the supply chain issues from the corona virus. Come home that these are the kind of real world effects that you don't think of it when it's a far off a city in China that suffering from it you you suffer from it when you're screens cracked and you can't get it fixed today. Tc L. showed off to prototype devices with flexible screens. The first we saw. Yes that's the trifold phone. Six point six five inch phone. That folds down kind of unfolds. Three ways into a ten inch tablet. The phone uses two distinct hinges to fold flat. Tcl demonstrated using it as a two pane. Fold as well the other device however is a sliding design with a screen. That rolls up into the back of the phone. So it's G- rolls out. A dummy device was demo by TCL and a video concept showed a motorized screen unrolling at the push of a button but dummy device. You had to pull out yourself. Tcl says it's experimenting with a dozen or so form factors and has no time for any of these devices to come to market. But I love the scalable. I've been asking for a scalable since I was doing buzz out loud at seen it more than a decade ago. This scrabble screen just seems like the best way to go because hinges are tricky but if you can make them work they just they hide away. They're really nice like a pot door. I applaud you for even thinking of a concept like this ten years ago because when I saw the for anybody. Who's like scroll -able wha- I mean don't you screw on your phone anyway? No it's the phone itself gets bigger and smaller scrolling in and out of itself. It is pretty cool and yes. This is a dummy device. But once I saw I was like Oh my goodness I had never thought about this yeah. I'm so I'm so focused on whether foldable phones or the right way to go scroll liberal. Phones are much more fun. Yeah think things scroll less like the gesture you make with your finger at four hundred which meant like the argument. That unfold unfurled as it gets a longer. I mean this seems a lot more. Structurally safe than hinges. Which have continued to have problems? And and we're now finding out that the rubber is kind of Once now that the rubber met the road it might not be ready for prime time. But I guess my larger question with all of this is is there a hunger for an I'll say novelty but but I guess I could probably be more than say experimental form factors like this are people excited for it either as a fashion accessory or as something that you could build a killer application on top practically speaking. I have wanted at from time to time the ability to just have my small phone that I can fit my pocket. Yeah able to have a bigger screen when I wanted to when. I'm reading a book or a comic book or playing a video. So that's where I think. A scroll or Shall I say unfurl lable screen earl -able is would be amazing right because you don't have to fold it up and then now it's twice as thick. It would have been it. Just it just rolls up into a corner of the phone can get bigger or smaller earning. It could actually have multiple sizes dream rate. You've got your phone. You've got your tablet all one thing Apple updated its APP store review guidelines. Those now stayed. The developers must admit new and updated. Apps using the IRS thirteen sdk implement sign in with apple for APPs that author of that that offer other services to log in with both starting April thirtieth. Twenty Twenty Bob will also announced that new apps in the dating and fortune telling categories will be rejected unless they provide a quote unique high quality experience and quote developers will also no longer be able to use custom notifications to ask for a user review. They'll have to use the. Api APPS can now send advertising push notifications if a user authorizes them and away to opt out is provided. Yeah the dating enforcing tailings a little weird until you consider that people just span the APP store with low quality APPS Let's say they're dating so they're just trying to crack down on that but the push notifications has some people very angry. A lot of people do not like the idea. That APPS will be able to send you an advertisement even if you can tell them not to. They're worried that they'll package the advertising notifications in with other notifications. That you want to trick you too getting them etc etc. I'll be honest. I've gotten ads as notifications from apps before even though they weren't supposed to be allowed so really. I'm I'm kind of glad that apple has set some rules to say. Look we know you guys are going to try to do it anyway. So here are the rules to follow. Yeah absolutely and I actually applaud. Apple has been very Customer I in terms of trying to corral a push notifications in general. I think that the additions to the newest versions of that alert you that hey. You don't seem to respond to these kinds of of a push notifications. Do you want to see them at all is something that has been helpful so yeah? I think from the developer side. Giving them an opportunity to do it if somebody wants to opt into it is good right but for the people complaining but good sweet sweet molasses life. Well I think it's exasperation really I mean. How many times have you seen some sort of notification where you're like okay? I'm going to go into my stadium. Suspects that happens all the time. And it's not because I changed my mind about letting an APP send me notifications it just Kinda. I Dunno fell through the cracks so when people see this and then they say it's going to be some sort of upsell than I can see why it's an annoyance but it is really just an annoyance because you do have control over your own notifications as long as you want to take. That isn't here it from the screen like you can do it from the from from the alert screen now like you don't even have to go into your settings and find the APP and turn off the Bush notifications. You can do it at the point of exasperation I get it. If they didn't have those I would say that that that this is going to lessen the experience but come on people. There's already plenty of toggles. Do Not pay remember the robot lawyer service that started disputing parking tickets for you. It's expanded to multiple services like canceling streaming services. That's always annoying requesting compensation from airlines poor customer service stuff like that. The latest service from do not pay called digital health automates the process of requesting. Your data be deleted under the California Consumer Privacy Act the system contacts more than one hundred data brokers and requests. Your data be deleted shows. You what data they collected and can even file legal paperwork to sue. If companies fail to comply do not pay cost three bucks per month for access to all of it services. Yeah if you haven't checked in do not pay in a while go to do not pay dot com you can schedule your appointment with the DMV in Texas and California Arizona and North Carolina. You can you can block robocalls and sue people who do robocalls like when I say do this. I mean you can just tell the robot do that and then it does all the work. Yeah Yeah there's a billion company I use them a few times or maybe it wasn't do not pay somebody with parking tickets because back when I had four it was called. Do not pay because that's how it started another name. Yeah and then. They had to stop operating in Oakland because I guess too. Many people were using it then. There was some kind of dispute with the local government who knows. I don't know if they're back anyhow. A brilliant idea absolutely loved it and I look forward to do more Interaction with this concept for three dollars a month. I want to sue robocaller and I'm I'm happy to work with. Do not pay I. Also you know stuff like oh the airline you know. You had a bad experience on now. How often do you go back and get your five dollars back? Because the WIFI sucked I mean. Some people are probably really diligent about that. I tend to just go. It's going to be such a nightmare. I'm GonNa be on the phone with someone from United for like twenty minutes again. It's the convenience. Sometimes it's worth it. The the effect of this will be to change those policies because right now they have a policy so they can point to it but they know no one will go to the trouble of going through the steps to make it happen. But now that you don't have to go to the trouble you can have the robot do it for you. Maybe more people start taking advantage of it. Then you start to see these policies change we we start seeing those policies change or we start to see companies saying you we will not accept. Robots submitted complaints That's when you do not pay. His really made a big. Yeah all right folks if you want to get all the tech headlines each day but you only got five minutes to spare. We have the solution daily tech headlines. Go get it. Daily Tech Dot Com. We're GONNA talk about the facebook fact checking problem. That is occurring this week. There's a controversy as Justin has foretold. This could never work perfectly forever and we have our first. It's not the first problem. But it's the first big showdown between a fact checking entity and a big publisher. Here's what happened. Facebook's fact checking partners have been certified through the Poynter Institute's Nonpartisan International Fact Checking Network. So these are not picked facebook. They're picked by a highly respected Journalistic Agency. Anyone who has picked by the IFC N can then label a story partly false label it as having a false headline or just say the things false. There's there's other categories like satire. In opinion too but as far as false goes those are your three choices and it only takes one partner to do that. There are different partners in different regions. The partners in the United States are. Afp United States the Associated Press. Check your fact fact. Check DOT ORG lead. Story's political science feedback and Reuters fact. Check check your fact is a subsidiary of a conservative publication called the daily caller. And this week. The president of the United States was speaking about the corona virus and said now the Democrats are politicizing. The Corona Vice. You know that right corona virus they're politicizing. We did one of the great jobs. They tried the impeachment hoax. That was on a perfect conversation. They tried anything. They tried it over and over. They've been doing it since you got in. It's all turning. They lost its alternative. Think of think of it and this is their new hoax slopes rated that quote from the President has mixed saying quote despite creating some confusion with his remarks. Trump did not call the corona virus itself hoax now. Snow is not one of the fact checking organizations working with facebook. They are used by a lot of people and snow. Said didn't call the corona virus itself a hoax but it was confusing. Politico wrote a story headline trump rallies based to treat corona virus as a hoax. Nbc News wrote a story headlined. Trump's calls corona virus Democrat's new hoax. Check your fact rated both headlines as false on facebook with the explanatory note trump actually described democratic complaints about his handling of the virus threat as a hoax now political and NBC News. Took issue with this saying no we were describing a quote and we don't think it was false check. Your facts said well we do. Publishers have only one route to appeal on facebook's labeling it's to go to the fact checking agency itself in this case check your act and ask them to reconsider the only other remedy would be to try to get the IFC EH. Poynter institute's arm to reject the fact checking entity entirely for failure to meet its guidelines which. That's a big thing to prove. So who you think is right in this case whether it's check your fact politico NBC News. There's somebody else that's not the issue for us. The heat of this controversy is this is the first big case where you have. The vetted fact checking agency that facebook has deemed to be appropriate at odds with not small blogs not leftist publications but mainstream publications over something that they say. Look that's that's not right. What your headline is not correct. Justin you've been saying for a long time. This was gonNA happen. Where where are you sitting with this sitting Tom? You can't sit when you're taking a victory lap. Exactly what I'm doing right now because say it with me. Everybody the idea that you can try to police this especially if you're trying to deputise other people to do it is a Hashtag. Hell Portal Hashtag portable. Hell it's both at the same time. There's no there is no doubt in my mind that this was going to end here for the following reasons regardless again about the facts of this When you are in a world where you are deputising outlets content outlets to be the ones that determine whether something is a factor not maybe misleading. Maybe with some kind of tag but the idea you are so concerned about whether or not there are lies told on the Internet that you are putting these people in charge and giving them such a authoritative language. Thanks to your platform was always going to end up in in disaster. Because Tom in your experience in this industry of Tech Journalism. How excited by your estimation do reporters get when they are reported on by another outlet? Quite quite excited excited may not be exactly the right word but there is excitement. Yes angry would be the way that I would. I would In anything in any instance in any form of journalism journalists it's one of the great quirks of the industry. Journalists hate being reported on by other reporters they hate having Their work challenge and this is literally just that. This kind of conflict was inevitable beyond that like the beyond the fact that this was always going to be a surface fight. It's just hard. It's very hardy. In fact I would say it might be an impossible. Task do determine with authoritative language facts on the Internet. It is it is far more complicated than than anybody who really pays attention to this. Just barely base it into this. Kind of story would like to admit this. Is the issue right right here today? Everybody agrees that obviously untrue story should be labeled false. There's there's no way when someone says you know. The president of the United States isn't alien. We're like that's not true. Every everyone agrees that the plausibly untrue stuff that is you know when you scratch the surface. Not True like this person was fired and then you find out. We'll know they weren't that stuff should be labeled false. It's these edge cases that are the ones that are difficult. So yeah you risk throwing the baby and the bathwater out at same time. If you say well you can't check any facts because there are things that are untrue that these organizations can be good at finding but where you draw the line as where you always have a problem and if you noticed the fact checking organizations in the United States I mentioned. Were not the the news organizations? They were fact checking arms of gains organizations or fact checking institutes of their own that just stand on their own like from the Annenberg school or something like that. So facebook's try to do it right there like we're GonNa get people who do this for a living. We're going to get them from across the spectrum so that it's not just one perspective on what's true and what's not and the fact of the matter is you're always going to have these edge cases now just an are you saying that means. You shouldn't do it at all or should it just be like well occasionally at this is going to happen and we take that as a cost of doing business. I tend to lean toward the harder. You work at this the the more you're trying to squeeze in the more falls through your fingers. It doesn't do it. Then they're they`re. They're facing worse criticism from people. Aren't they sword? Yeah then he's worse criticism. I mean like I think there is a expectation that we have as consumers as to what facebook can do that. I think is unreasonable that they should not be held to the idea that that everything that might be ally can be can be filtered out. There's again I do think that it's very hard now you're right out and out falsehoods like Hillary Clinton dead at the age of fifty one or something like that comes out tomorrow. Yes that's something that can and should be marked in weeded out. I think that there are different than that. That's a different problem to solve for other than getting into a situation where you are fighting over intentionally sensational headlines like I think the politico and NBC News are great organizations that do great work at the same time that political headline is written to be clicked on it all like all headlines are all yes and some of the best are intentionally there so people are like wait what click on it go and interact with it especially there's other goes viral and facebook. The last I'll add to this because I know people out there thinking it is well. Why don't you get rid of the fact checking organizations that run afoul and that is up to the international checking network? The poynter institute is fairly well respected and even if you disagree with them as a result of this story. They're saying that these agencies are reliable so if they're saying that and they're not willing to change their mind because of this one story which honestly is not that crazy. It's you know it's not out of the realm of possibility. It's not like they labeled something. Demonstrably true is false or vice versa. Confusing statement then. Hope to me that that is this working right. You're going to have these controversies if this kind of thing is happening well controversial or not. A lot of people submit wonderful stories to our sub reddit and we thank you every day. You could submit something that you think is worth our time and vote on others. Daily Tech News. Show DOT READY DOT com. Let's move onto Chris. Christianson are amateur traveller. Who has a tip for finding work remotely? This is Chris Christensen from Ama- traveler with another tech in travel minute. If you have a job that you can do remotely and you want to do so. Just because the corona viruses out there. Or maybe because you WanNa do it near a tropical beach you can search for remote jobs either on a specialized search engine like flex jobs dot com or when you go to one of the regular job sites like indeed dot com instead of putting in your location put in remote and you can find a job might let you travel at the same time. I'm Chris Christensen from amateur traveler. Man Chris Christopherson he's He's facing difficult times with reduced. Travel on the rise here but Nice work finding a way to to make lemons at eliminate there. I'll let's check out the MAILBAG. Let's do it. We had a discussion yesterday. About what makes a good coder and The Answer Minister Prize. You adjacent from Chicago wrote. I can attest to reasoning being as important as math skills in programming. I've working software engineer for thirty five years. I was a liberal arts major with a concentration in math. I knew I wanted to do software. But my school didn't have a concentration. In retrospect I did better being more general. I can't remember any of the math but the training problem solving has stayed with me. I have a mantra for any of my teams which says think about the problem. Not The solution and Ian followed up with his own experience in the late Seventies. He says I was an Undergrad in college and worked as a computer lab assistant. I would help students with programming. Basis basic I found a near perfect correlation between the person's skills with programming and their proficiency in doing proofs in high school geometry. I mentioned this to a professor. He suggested I write a paper about it. That never came about but I always felt that the same skill set was used in both thought processes. This is similar to the field of logic as taught in math and philosophy Got A lot of Passionate responses all over the scale on this so thank you and as we said yesterday more study indicated but but an interesting study nonetheless Yay. Thanks for all the feedback. Everybody also thanks and a special shout out to patrons that our master and grandmaster levels including Mike mcglaughlin Philip less. And Frederick Huber Hubner. Rather sorry Frederick. Also thanks to Justin Robert Young for being with us. Justin not only is your birthday. But you're back in the studio sleeping in your bed. It's been a wild week or so. Oh boy has it. Sarah of course you can catch all of the Latest political stuff at About politics wherever podcasts are found you can support a directly at take politics seriously dot com but there is one thing that I forgot to tell Roger to put on the sheet. And that is you guys heard me a few weeks ago. Talk about my history podcast. Raise the dead That is all about the Nixon versus Kennedy election in nineteen sixty the lessons that we could have learned for twenty sixteen trump versus Clinton and now for the first time. Ever you can listen to it as an audio book. So if you've got if you if you have an audible subscription. I know a lot of people listening do had on over there. It's a five and a half hour experience so I'm not GonNa waste one of your credits with something like a half hour forty five minutes and even if you've already listened to it there is a bonus episode a full length bonus episode all about the Kennedys relationship to the mob and Frank Sinatra. If you like that more glittering crime side of the story then you're going to very much enjoy the bonus episode available now on audible raise the dead Nixon versus Kennedy and I. I got a sneak peek of that episode. That's one of my favorites of the whole series. So it's absolutely worth it. Hey if you're not an audible subscriber there's a million ways to get a free audiobook. Here's a chance cash in get raised the dead for free and then if you stick around got a book coming out on audible. March twenty fourth US keep it rolling been three months since we started the counter on people getting a sticker poster a Mug or a t shirt with a special six year anniversary logo on it. And the first batch is headed to the factory to get printed mailed out to about one hundred seventy four patrons. You can join them folks. It's not too late. Start that clock. Ticking for your three month reward get some cool stuff and insider perks on top of it. The details Patriot dot com slash slash merch. Our email address feedback at Daily News. Show DOT com. Thanks for all the feedback. We live you guys. We're also live Monday through Friday at four thirty PM EASTERN. That's twenty one thirty ut and you can find out more act daily tech new show. Dot Com slash. Live back tomorrow with Nicole. 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Deconstructing Fake News with MediaWises Heaven Taylor-Wynn

For the Love with Jen Hatmaker Podcast

44:26 min | 2 years ago

Deconstructing Fake News with MediaWises Heaven Taylor-Wynn

"Hi everybody. My name is romy. Welcome to the for the love podcast with your host jenn hat maker my mom. She writes books folks in speaks to <unk> but she mostly loves talking to amazing people on this podcast every week. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoyed the show mm-hmm. Hey everybody can have make her here. Your delighted hostess of the for the love podcast supercollider hair today supercar do here for this <unk> whole series called for the love of truth tellers and laura just brainstorm this just around around around because it's just such a weird time right now with misinformation and fake news and deep fakes and it is not even just a luxury anymore to become media-literate like this is important. It's important to our democracy. It's important to frankly our relationships like with our family. How many times have you had like an knock-down argument with somebody that you love that you deeply care about over a piece of news going around on facebook. That's not even true right or not even real or it's inflated in such a way that it's just created this like unreasonable tension point this it just matters right now and so since we're spending so much time in the series educating ourselves on media the illiteracy online and off. I thought we could benefit today because i know who you are. I knew who my listeners are from learning how we don't just educate ourselves but our kids so calling all parents in any way calling all teachers calling all mentors today's episode is how how to teach our kids everything that we're talking about in this series because obviously this is something they have and will continue to have to engage with on a daily early basis for the rest of their lives so today we are talking to the delightful heaven taylor win. She's a journalist from a company. He called media wise so you may have heard of it. Media wise it's it's a groundbreaking digital literacy project and its mission in is to teach one million teens how to sort fact from fiction on the internet by twenty twenty <hes> and baked baked into their mission half of those million teens at least they are aiming to help kids from underserved communities. It's a really wonderful wonderful mission for all of us really and so this is good work and important work because our hits are digital natives. You know i mean they have grown up around around iphones and screens. This is the only world they know but research is showing us that most teenagers still have trouble navigating the information they see online <hes> whether it's the fake news we hear so much about or viral hoaxes on instagram or even how to how to spot a sponsored post and just knowing what that means just knowing how to consume digital content in a way that is really smart and savvy so media wise is bringing bringing all of this to teens via in person events on social media. I think it's a great resource for us. As we try to educate educate ourselves in our families about what elizabeth diets in our less last episode called our media diet right and i also love and you will too that media wise is has a couple of great ambassadors and they've got n._b._c.'s lester holt who is beloved and speaking of beloved why a author all around good human john green <hes> just absolutely a fan fave so i'm super glad to hear that media wise has their stamp of approval and and their partnership so i can't wait for you to hear from our guest for media why today heaven heaven taylor win. She is got a lot to do today so just buckle up. There's just so many practical things in this interview that art within the reach of all of us easy to teach easy to share heaven. One is a multimedia storyteller. She's twenty eighteen m abo- and foundation fellow at the poynter institute for media studies in saint petersburg. She went to school at the university of florida their college of journalism communications this is her stuff and she's worked at writing and producing in pieces for the north central florida p._b._s. They're n._p._r. Affiliates and then going back to her college days. She worked on the student paper for the university of florida. She is bright. She is smart. She is shiny. <hes> she is savvy. I learned a lot today and i. I took some notes while she was talking about <unk>. Frankly i know that they're teaching kids that i've learned since yesterday i learned about how to be a better media consumer and so so this is this service has legs it really really does and so we definitely want to put this in front of our kids. We want them to follow media wise but we you should too so you'll see why you'll see why as this interview rolls out. I'm really pleased to share my conversation with a very smart heaven taylor taylor win okay heaven. I am absolutely delighted to have you on the show today. Thank you so much for making time for us. Absolutely i'm so happy to the hearing to be spreading the word about media wise. Let's you know what we're working on. I now as we were sort of brainstorming. This series is just so incredibly timely not just for kids and adolescents and teens but for grownups too. I think we actually all have a lot to learn from what you have to say today but you know we were just we were looking around at. The horizon isn't lake. Who's doing a good job right now. Who's who's teaching us. Well who's leading us. Well who particularly for our kids i have five kids and they are from thirteen into twenty one so they're like your target demographic and i just i can't wait to put your work in front of them so happy to know about it so look. I filled old in our listeners a little bit about what you do but i'd love to hear. I just a little bit more about media wise like who are you focused focused on helping and in general. We're going to dial into it in more in a minute. But how are you doing that sure so overall. Media wise is <unk> a digital media literacy project. That's the result of a partnership between the poynter institute which is a journalism school in saint petersburg florida in stanford history education patie- group and we are funded by google dot org and we are part of the google news initiated and so with all of that being said our goal is to reach one million teenagers by twenty twenty one half of those students to be from underserved communities because typically they may not have the resources or the access to get you know this information that we're trying against them and we want to teach them how to tell fact from fiction online woman in addition to that. We want them to be able to tell their friends in learn how to do it themselves. Yes yes absolutely and frankly i. We need to hear this too as their parents because we're getting duped just as often and and <hes> it's just as hard for us to learn to set out and we don't have any predecessors to teach us how to teach them <hes> and so. I just see see you fitting a place right now. In culture that is so so important i one thing i know as a mom of five teens in just post teens is they are inhaling videos. That is absolutely how my kids are getting their information <hes> there is this what you're seeing. Are they getting their news or whatever whatever from the youtube stars and from internet personalities and i'm curious how he feels about finding trusted sources says of information like who do they trust. Who are they listening to right now yeah well. You know like you just said it's hard for not just teens but for adults as well as so so much content so much information coming at us all the time <hes> but some new research just came out recently from common sense media in day concur with what you're finding teens are getting their information from social media and from youtube <hes> in a lotta times in a new growing platforms tick tock but i'd say there's less news on there but generally teens are turning away from a traditional media sphere and turning to things that they look at all the time but most of the time they're getting it from like celebrities and influencers in people they can relate to people who are interested in following following in seeing what they're doing on their day to day so i say you been social. Media are very key in court where they're getting their info from and that's a big reason why we live on social media so media wise literally our platform essentially is instagram so part of what we do with information out there is through our teen fact checking network in so we have teams from across the nation creating content by teams fourteenth essentially finding claims online in fact checking and in the facts they walk them. They walk you through the steps of how they achieve the rating that they need whether it's legit or not legit as the words we kinda like to us so we have some of us. Sometimes we do but most of the time. It's the team's doing it because we'd like to hear each other ex the best way to get through. Someone is someone who can connect you. They can late. That's part of i think why not hundred so interested in getting insight from these influences of your fault. Hey everybody nobody you know brush shopping on my favorite. I mean who's favorite is it. It's a lot of work to figure out your size much less nice to see if the bra you pick is going to be comfortable or not and so i do not play that guessing game anymore thanks to third love. Certain love is awesome awesome. Because in sixty seconds i went online. I took their fit finder quiz and they matched me with abroad absolutely works for me. They have hamworthy seventy sizes including half-cup sizes so i'm telling you anybody can find their own fit and not only that third. Love makes the most host comfortable braulio ever on the straps. Don't slip. There's tattooist labels memory foam cups. Everything just has a very premium feel to it. <hes> i can tell you from experience. I love their brought so much. I think at this point nine i'm not kidding. I think i have nine bras from third labs so they know that there's a perfect proffer everyone so right now. They're offering my listeners. Fifteen percents off your first order k so go to third third less dot com slash for the less and you'll find your perfect fitting bra and get fifteen percent purchase not bad so it's third less dot com slash for the love for fifteen percent off today okay back to our show and so right now on the show as i mentioned we are in a series about people who are intent on finding the truth what's true out there and then speaking at pretty boldly even if it costs them. I think a few years ago. I'm not even sure this is a series we would have even thought about having <hes> as urgently as we did now as we are doing now now i think the obviously the two thousand sixteen election showed just how insidious information can be in the wrong hands and how false information and fake news and it can do very real very lasting damage. I know oh addressing. This is probably at least central to some of your work so i wonder if you would help. Give us some context and based on. You have so much information mation at your fingertips. This is your data. This is your intel what happened in two thousand sixteen. And how easily do you think it could happen happen again or is that inevitable but it is going to happen again. Will you know twenty. Sixteen is seems like it was almost four years ago. At this point in there so much has happened since then an oh. I think we should be more concerned with is the efforts that are being taken today to kind of combat. The city's information because the key thing i went to saint saint presentations is the information that we consume directly affects the decisions that we make and so forth forms of these teams are getting info from for example facebook and youtube in even others others on their launching various fact checking partnerships with organizations not media particularly but some similar for example politic facts in other members of the fact checking. You know sphere internationally. They're launching fact checking partnerships with him to ensure that this n._c._d.'s information isn't spreading white as rapidly in quite as far as it may have back then misinformation disinformation is being created by bad actors out there there are out there who it is their their their job in in their desire to create misinformation spread it into mislead people is becoming more sophisticated example prime example of that is deep fakes. Are you familiar with yeah yeah yes. I'm watching that right now. It's crazy yes so for anyone whose unfamiliar deep fakes are <unk> videos created through these artificial intelligence and essentially what they do is make it look like someone usually someone prominent influential is saying something they are not saying that is one thing that's becoming even more sophisticated as we approach this twenty twenty the election cycle in so we need to be cognizant and aware and more vigilant that these are things that are out there that can be misleading to us people creating in efforts to mislead us another example example is spots <hes> back in the day there used to be pop up box accounts on twitter on other social media platforms eligible byu out misinformation or just trying to to distract you or discourage. You were like start up conversations now. They're more sophisticated in that. You're trying to build and grow audiences there. <hes> mimicking real people's accounts so generating that audience getting that following in the whole time you may not know this person so to speak but you're engaging with them because they're posting interesting content in your wanting to keep keep up with them and then maybe here and there they'll drop a political mean. Maybe hearing they'll drop some controversial and so at that point is kind of almost too late because you've got your trust or your followers or stressed <hes> so yeah they'll be something to look out for <hes> a couple of things so kind of getting into the the the granular work of what it is you do in specifically what it is you teach. Can you walk us through the way a journalist or a professional fact checker verifies information sure so as i mentioned earlier one of our partners in this project is a stanford history education group in soak through their development. They came up with three questions that we love to ask ourselves a win. We're approaching a fact check so the first is who was behind the information this this is pretty much key in figuring out anything if it's legitimate or not because what is times when you figure out who's behind the information even discover you know what their motivations are sure off to gain what they have to lose by people you know disseminating information in believing in acting upon it <hes> the next question is what is the evidence kids are there. Is there any evidence out there that supports or denies these claims that are being made online or in real life or wherever and the third one is a water other sources saying so. I'm sure you've seen a lot of times you know. In big news happens a thousand different news outlets report it differently right. It's imperative. Take that as a savvy news consumers in maintaining a healthy news diet that we're consuming several different types of news sources. That's as a consumer we can discern what is true in what is not on our own because at the end of the day like i said four who's behind information. Everyone has some type of motivation or get across or you know a platform. They wanna push in. That's just the way it is not necessarily good nor bad but we need to be cognizant that <hes> you know folks are just trying to. They have their own agendas and that's it. It is what is so in asking those questions. We have a couple of tips. We'd like to use so one of them is a keyword search in it's just what it sounds like having on search engine we typically use google and just search couple of words related to the plane and seeing what comes up in that essentially lead you into lateral reading <hes> that's when you get off of the pager on and find additional sources that are talking about what you're trying to research in. We read books articles and things we read vertically read up and down the page. <hes> in lateral reading is getting <music> off that page onto various other tabs in seeing of his sources are saying another thing we like to incorporate with that is with the pedia now wikipedia may not the most reliable source for everything <hes> but there are clear is an editorial clear that you have to reach in order to just go on and change something and so ryan burrow. You probably couldn't go on on political figures of really parker google figures pages change it because they have various locks that own and people can edit now so it's not as easy as just hopping on their editing <hes> another thing with that is almost all of the points that are made them with a p._d._f. Pages has citations stations that can be worn <unk> page in so those can service really good jumping off points. If you don't know something about a subject you can go look at those primary sources in continued collateral reading and try to figure out more information and get more detailed stuff. That's great. I mean it's a really great tips. Obviously this all takes a little bit longer. Hopefully serhiy it's important. It's so important. I mean i know. Even i consider myself a pretty savvy media consumer <hes> pretty <unk> <unk> eyes wide open to the tricks trade out there right now and even i have picked up on a piece of kind of salacious news or really <hes> <hes> provocative incredibly sensational and just the additional step of maybe two minutes on a lateral rage googling it in what's what's everybody else saying. It's not pretty quickly or i see oh this was really inflated <hes> and so it is a little bit more of a time time commitment but you are right that something kind of as simple as going one foot deeper into the search it can matter it. It really can hold you out of the mire of of biased reporting in one way or another. Hey everybody jen break in for just a second. I am as you know a huge advocate for counseling and feel like sometimes we just need a little guidance from a trusted source who can help us look at things objectively and find a way forward so better help counseling. It's online resource that offers licensed professional counselors and they're specialized in issues like depression and stress anxiety relationships family conflicts great. Honestly you name it so much more <hes> you can connect with a professional counselor in a safe private absolutely confidential online environment you can even schedule secure video or phone sessions or chats or texts with your therapist until vegetable muscle. It is truly affordable which hinders a lot of us from good counseling and so for you guys. The listeners of the podcast better help nope is giving you ten percent off your first month with the discount code for a love so if you're needing a little help getting to that a good change in your life go to better help dot com slash for the love his wartime better help dot com mm-hmm slash for the love using the code for the love okay back to our show. It's obviously no secret that lake the news industry in general is just night and day from from what it was twenty years ago. I mean just the twenty four hour news. Cycle the way in which it's presented. It's just completely different. Beasts now <hes> so you know twenty years ago we had tabloids of course but nothing to the degree that we have today thanks to all these click bait factories which is just you know a moneymaker so what would you say is the difference between a journalist <hes> you know with kind of impeccable ethics and journalistic integrity and and a writer whose basically paid to fill content factories with click bait because sometimes they kind of look the same <hes> and specifically. Would you say there particular sites. We need to watch out for clues or whatever it isn't just look. The same does another one of the tips we teaches is spotting native ads and so we'd see them all the time but probably don't think much about it but a native ad is something that looks like the content you're consuming wing in its native to the platform so you're scrolling on instagram and every now and again you might see some of those promoted poster. Sponsored posts are native madison thing. You'd like to teach as well. L. has on articles on other websites for example refinery twenty nine's example that we use sometimes the presentation they'll have keywords like paid content <hes> so those are some things that you can loses spot those kinds of native advertisements but typically when you're trying to suss out whether someone's a legitimate journalist or writing sponsored content <hes> yeah to consume the whole peace in review on the headline figure out you know are they seeking the truth in reporting it. That's essentially journalists job so sometimes it can feel like you're trying to be sold something <hes> and it's really hard to tell us like i say when they're made of advertisements their native to the platform they want to feel like legitimate articles in news but at the end of the day everyone wants you to click on the link or read the article in that's the name of the game whether they're a journalist or for <hes> you know creating click beatty type of articles. It's really up to you to try to suss it out in a couple of words. We'd like to look out for with those sponsored content types of pieces are promoted advertisements sponsored a word on those type of things but you have to just do the diligence and try try to figure it out and also it can be helpful if you look at who wrote it <hes> at a fine their social media pages encima beard off titles immune additional additional steps that you have to take <hes> but sometimes it's worth it when you're trying to decide whether you should retreat or share something or not you know pricing that click restraint and really figuring out getting to the bottom of what does this information what would you say is the lower hanging fruit so you know for example going back to the old tabloid example. We know astill when we look at the cover of tabloid in the grocery store aisle. It's obvious you know it's so clear we look at no. This is not real this. We're gonna take with a grain of salt. All these headlines are untrue. <hes> it has this very clear aesthetic. <hes> are there any fake stories where their cover so we speak gives them away online like in a digital world well. I think it's it's not that simple anymore because you know truth is not always black and white especially online because things are out of control there can be elements of truth and that's a lot of things that's a lot of times what we find in our fact checking with the content that we make we have berating called meets context <hes> so when you're looking at these headlines on across social media online a lot of times. They're there to grab your attention but it's blown out of proportion so another key thing is when there are <hes> fake websites or these pop-up sites that kind of just make articles a spin out this click etienne fake content something we can look for often is spelling errors also grammatical errors dead giveaway also <hes> kazaks by indicate that a ah or is writing the article or creating this content another thing we can look for is a weird looking account handles <hes> we typically no. It's it's kind we would use social media. <unk> can tell if someone came up with that account name or not worth. It's like oddly generated just something to keep your eye out for in this goes back to who's behind the information <hes> also you need to look at. You are ells of websites. Sometimes there can be things that mimic sites that were familiar with <unk> the sample there's <hes> a._b._c. news dot net right so that's obviously trying to mimic a._b._c. News in that's not there were real so they like to mimic in <hes>. Get the idea in your mind. They are this legacy brand or something legitimate unbe jacks. Just use a very vigilant. I end logothetis things so going back to something. You just said like who's who's behind it. I'm curious if you think we should only rust legacy brands and even then how trustworthy <unk> how trustworthy are because like you know over the past couple of decades the neagh legacy brands <unk>. I grew up with have been snapped up by huge corporate entities like for example jeff bezos spying the washington washington post or disney purchasing a._b._c. or roger ailes watching fox news up links have changed and so i wonder should we be seeking more critically about who's funding these brands and the skin that they haven't the gain the perspective eh they are imprinting now onto their outlets and how and maybe even how should we judge to'real coverage now now while i wanna say behind all of these brands whether they're the legacy ones you know before after they were purchased by whoever you know behind all of this stuff is humans <hes> um sometimes some content generated by mentioned before but those were program by humans in at the end of the day like humans are fallible. We all make mistakes and we all are prone to errors at some point or another in so with that being said these legacy brands can make mistakes as well. You know we can make mistakes too <hes> but i can't tell you who you to trust. You know that's up to you in up to your own judgement but what i can do is the army with the tools to figure out who you can trust in so what i would recommend men is amusing us tips mentioned before in taking note of patterns in the reporting in the writing to help you better decide whether these sources that are you know using using years established if they are sources you wanna trust and i absolutely think we should continue to think critically and be skeptical love nearly everything you know certainly if i'm reading something for just an example the new york times chances are going to be more trustworthy in a a little less critical of it than a blog. I've never heard before. I certainly going to still examine it with a very critical eye and if need be apply by those other skills such as lateral reading getting off the page in other sources are saying about a similar story because it's up to me before i share something before i move forward with a conclusion of if something is legitimate or not is up to me to make sure i can stand on it and say yeah i think this is true and i feel comfortable with sharing this in the world's in the media sphere good. You know you mentioned a and just everything faster. Internet speeds better hardware. Were just the sophistication instigation of creating doctored. Media is only going to increase <hes> you know that's just a deep well of innovation around disseminate wrote like wrong information. I wonder if you are noticing. Are you paying attention to or maybe just suspect. Do you see any future trends. Maybe coming down the pike. That might help us combat. Those things like you see people working on really interesting ways to verify or authenticate or <hes>. Do you think media itself will begin building in some safeguards or checks and balances offices will is so interesting that you ask that question because i was just reading this article from axios literally yesterday is called on misinformation hans the twenty twenty primaries any was talking about several those things you know how bots are making more convincing fake pages and they're trying to build up that audience like i mentioned earlier earlier in essentially they're doing the dirty when the dirty work for them because we are will not necessarily but humans are interacting with these pages and let's to believe that what they're sharing is legitimate and the boston not having to do much at that point in <unk> they have you know these huge volumes of their growing because the posting otherwise innocuous content in sneaking in some harmful postseason there it's interesting. I've got like specifically on twitter. I have learned a spot. The bought accounts that are trying to engage me in really primarily very salacious ways really <unk> combative and and i've learned it's not that hard to go to their home page on their twitter account and just do a quick scrawl and really quickly you can figure out oh this is a bought. This isn't a real person is not a real ide- it's not a real bio how it's not a real picture. <hes> all of the the content is one note and so that for me is just an automatic block not gonna engage going to put any fuel on a higher as a block and release and that's a really good practice because another one of the things from the axioms article was saying the boss like to engage with people who have hi following <unk> influencers because again doing their work for them if your followers are seeing that you're engaging with this but you know they might go to their page and go take a look at what they're spreading and you know. It's a downward spiral there so that's another method of using the boss or engaging with people with high followings in china to get their followers to see what they're china's share. You know it's all interconnected away absolutely <hes> kind of turning the corner back around to your specific line of work with kids which so great so important night you know in my generation us in our forties are so we just knew that technology and on social media was outpacing us it was it was quicker than we could figure out what to do with it. We knew that our kids are gonna face challenges that we don't even know how to manage much schlesinger how to teach them how to manage it and so i can't tell you what a relief it is to me and how excited i am to see companies like media wise rising up and kind of standing in the gap here because our kids are this is the only culture they know they don't have a before <hes> and so obviously despite its craziness at its heart for me personally. The internet is mostly a wonderful place and we've used it to learn. We've used it to expand amanda horizons. We've used it to connect well in meaningfully. We've used it to raise money and raise awareness. I mean it. It can be a really wonderful place to be so. I don't think any of us wanna take all that away from our kids. You know i don't i don't think we wanted to say this is all bad and we want to shut it down. And how can we figure out. I had unplugged. So how would you say that. Parents help their kids with their critical thinking skills that are growing. They're interested in the world are interested in culture. They're paying attention without stifling their curiosity or clamping down too hard hard or overreacting. Do you have any like best practices for parents who are trying to guide their kids through the malay- of of online culture sure well for one of course follow media-wise will we are teaching on our instagram as well as in our in school events like to share her <hes> various <hes> like i was saying the fact checks to teens. Do we like to share different project updates. <hes> additionally media-wise has a curriculum with jim for his registration. That's coming coming out in january of next year and that will be free available for download sheds website <unk> actually sit down with their kids and utilize these lessons have an open and honest dialogue in you know challenge each other to critically in judge information themselves <hes> and of course you know just be real and honest. It's about the reality of the internet in the world today like you said the internet is generally a wonderful place. You know for the most part but there are the bad actors out there so parents in kids need to have these honest dialogs in just you know keep it real great. I'm excited about curriculum over at stanford that is that is timely <hes> win can teachers features listening right now. Get their hands on it too because this is also now a big part of classroom curriculum. Yeah it'll be free and available to download for everyone. You know we are encouraging educators to download in the utilize it in their classrooms but even today there are portions of it that can be looked at downloaded from online mind but the full expansive <hes> entire curriculum will be available in the coming months in an awkward for we also have a crash course series with one of our ambassadors john green wanting our stars looking for alaska <hes> another way that we get the information thursday our ambassador program so john green is just one of them but he's he's so dynamic he did his whole ten episode crash course series called navigating digital information is on you to right now totally free in teaches a lot of the stuff that will be in the curriculum in a lot of the tips that leave practice but i think just the way that john green speaks in breaks down and just keeps it simple will be a great discussion point for parents and kids to have one other to really analyze talk about these different on internet phenomena that gets them out there. He is such such a great leader and just advocate for young adults. I respected admire him so much. Hey everybody real quick break to talk about new service. You're going to enjoy especially if you're like me and you love love so audible. Escape is a monthly subscription that leads you listen to as many love stories as you want and they have thousands to choose from so if you're a fan of rom coms or romance novels audible escape will totally be you're jammed a ton of you already know in love audible of course but audible escape is separate from the regular audible subscription but good news. You don't even have to be audible member to sign up for audible escape now. If you're newt audible audible escape is free to try for your first month and after that it's just twelve dollars and ninety five cents a month and if you're already an audible or kindle unlimited member audible escape is just six dollars and ninety five just to add on so if you need to unwind named which we all do what better way than diving headfirst into one of thousands of fun feel good stories you you just get to listen to to get started visit audible dot com slash love for the love see what we did there so one more time that's what's audible dot com slash love for the love. Okay back to our show okay. Let's wrap this up. I am asking these questions of everybody buddy and are finding the truth series and so this can just just off the top of your head <hes> so here's first question who is a truth teller that you admire so it could be somebody modern or somebody from history so many people that come to mind but just given <hes> something that happened recently. I'm thinking nicole nicole hannah jones from the new york times magazine she recently just put out this sixteen nineteen project on the back to slavery in talking about the four hundred years since the first africans came over in so. I'm just starting to take a dive into that in. It's incredible. Yes i me too. I've just like helicopter down and touchdown touchdown on that project to just get a feel for it and it is outstanding. I mean she should be commended for her work here. Listeners will link over that so you can see what we're talking about. It's really amazing okay. How about this. Who do you think is one of the most insightful or important thinkers right now somebody who when they speak you make sure that you're listening. I think we're gonna go with a voodoo. Vernay <hes> all of her pieces you know they just i love it because it's not worth speaking literally but it is her work speaking for her and so each each other things i've consumed when they see us s. thirteen selma wrinkle in time just so dynamic amazing especially considering. She started her career generally speaking a little later on after years his news working n._p._r. I think she's just fabulous yet. She is a force right now and i like how you said. She's she's showing showing her. Work is just showing for what it is really really powerful leader <hes>. I'm paying a lot of attention to her to here's the last question we actually ask every <music> guest every series this question and you can answer however you want. It can be like a really serious. Answer can be absolutely ridiculous. It's just runs. The gamut on this show so the question is what is saving your life right now. Okay this is kind of funny and love babies on instagram so so babies like critiquing. John legend's kids <unk>. Gabrielle union's kids stanley. I follow who adopted this little girl. They love sharing beer adoption story. Just love seeing smiling too happy babies on instagram just so pure <hes> just you're having a bad day. He we know smiling happy. Laughing baby will always make it better so that's parts do you follow like is curry. Yes on my her babies. I i just can't and watching them. Grow up like riley in ryan are paid out. I know i'm with you. Sometimes when a beautiful delicious baby pops pops up on instant unlike you know what everything's gonna be okay right the world and keep going. We're gonna make it universe. We've got this still. I love it <hes> heaven. Thank you so much for coming on today. I am proud of you. I'm proud of what you're doing. I am so grateful to have somebody coming alongside of me as a parent parent and beginning to to help us steer the ship here so that our kids can be intelligent consumers of media in general specially ashley. They hit young adulthood especially as they're preparing to vote. You know it is just matters. It's such a big deal. Can you just tell my listeners quickly how they can find out more about everything we talked about like. Where do they find media wise. Where do they find everything that you and i talked about yeah. Media wise is on nearly every social media platform. It's at media media wise. We're on facebook twitter instagram. We just gotta take talk recently ran youtube to <hes> maryland snatch right now but at media wise in e. d. a w i s e <hes> in my more about media wise at poynter dot org slash media wise pointer is p. o. y. In t. e. r. dot org slash media wise right <hes> so listeners you follow them and then have your kids follow them. That's that's their aim. That's their target demographic and that that is exactly who they're serving and so i'm delighted to have met you and so happy to know about your work and positively putting it in front of my kids <hes> <hes> and grateful in advance for for your help and teaching them how to be intelligent and thoughtful when it comes to everything there consuming so a good job you thanks for being on the show today and thanks so much for your time. Thank you for having me and i wanna really quickly. <hes> let everyone know we are accepting applications for our team sectioning taking network so any teens thirteen eighteen years old who want to be a part of media wise and help spread the good word in debunked claims online and get paid for it <hes> feel free to check akkas out on social media in the link in our bias. Oh that is awesome. I will make sure that we link up to that the transcript to thanks for dropping that in all right thanks heaven kevin great to meet you right. You guys good stuff good stuff. This is what we have to do. This is the diligence is required of our generation. <hes> you know we did not ask to be essentially the first generation to parent kids through oh media culture and help them decode their media diet but here we are and so we need to take seriously <hes> we need to pay attention then we need to do the work. It's worth it. It's just worth it. It's worth it to dig down to the bottom of all this for what is actually true <hes> <hes> i believe this is a real path forward for us as we are so polarized along the fault lines of sin sation allies dhx media media and journalism and this these are some of the guideposts to bring us back to one another to bring us back to what's just true what's really going on so grateful to have today for her expertise for her enthusiasm and for her role in teaching the next generation <hes> so they will be doing a better job. Hopefully at all this than we are. You guys more to come in the series. We find this important. We find it interesting interesting. We find thoughtful and we hope you do too. We love your feedback. You've given us a lot on this one particularly in so <hes> thank you for listening weakened in week out you continue to be gosh like the most loyal podcast community ever. I cannot get over it. So if you haven't already go subscribe that way you'll never miss the episode and it just shows up for you and as always super delighted to bring this to you every week behalf of lara our producer on behalf of amanda my assistant we partner in all of this work and we're absolutely glad to do it so thanks for listening every week in the next time that's it for today. Show hope you enjoyed this chat shirt. Subscribe to my mom's podcast and give it thumbs up rating if you like it for the whole all hat maker family. I hope you have a great week and see you next time.

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How do you like Dems + Apple?

Marketplace Morning Report with David Brancaccio

06:24 min | 1 year ago

How do you like Dems + Apple?

"The case of what may have been some phantom US jobs. I'm David Brancaccio tomorrow. We'll get the January jobs. Data report forecasters expect to be strong boosted in part by strangely warm weather and Snow Lewis weather in parts of the country. But there have been early indications that are routine gene revision. To the tally of American payrolls will be more than routine. Diane SWONK Chief Economist. At the tax and advisory Firm Grant Thornton says this will cover a stretch from the late winter of twenty eighteen through this last spring it covers years. Actually they go back years and they square up. All the economic data from everything from tax returns to unemployment returns they actually know which firms were created in which firms were died over the course of many years all of these issues come up. They get more inclusive data and from doing that. The what we've got on the Plymouth area data for a period of April twenty eighteen to March twenty nineteen as it there or about a half million fewer jobs. Then we're actually reported during that period that means we just didn't generate as many jobs as we thought it doesn't change the unemployment rate it doesn't change the wage gained. All this does is says. Listen we over counted some jobs during that period it's unusual to see such large visions and we haven't seen that large of a downward revision division since two thousand and nine of course we're missing. How rapidly releasing jobs during the two thousand eight two thousand nine period economist? Diane swonk apple will be live streaming the Democratic presidential. Debate tomorrow in New Hampshire. It's partnering with ABC News To Provide Analytics Graphics and field questions from readers leaders of Apple News Twitter House special coverage as well marketplace's Jasmine Gosh reports on what these digital outlets get from established news organizations in this political season Apple News. Plus wants to let you know. It's a real news source the definitely ABC is giving the the news legitimacy to apple. Ken Doctor is an analyst with the site media. It is putting apple into the League of being a news company and that's giving them a lot of legitimacy for a company that pays so few journalists. What apple is doing is nothing new in the two thousand sixteen elections twitter partnered with CBS broadcast and provide analytics? Later this month month. Twitter will do that again for a democratic debate in South Carolina when Apple News plus launched last year it offered hundreds of magazine and newspaper titles for about about ten dollars a month but rick admins. An analyst with the POYNTER institute says media users have subscription fatigue. You look at the bill and say man that's And about as much as I WANNA pay which might be. Why Apple is partnering with? ABC News Journalism. A tough business to get into. But if there's ever a good time it's during an election year. I'm Jasmine Garcia for marketplace. Now let's get what we're calling ECON extra credit where I go back to basics revisiting key economic themes on a weekly basis. I'm starting by reading an open source intro. Economics Textbook Chapter a week through tax time in April. I'm just reading chapter one. Where economics makes it very clear why why governments have trouble pushing policies to limit climate change? That's in part because some sacrifice others get a free ride and because future generations can't can't vote now but before we get deep into this. Let's get a warning about intro. ECON done wrong. James Kwok University of Connecticut law professor. Who's written a book called economism bad economics and the rise of inequality professor Kwok? Thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me now. You've written at studying classical economics can and lead US astray. What are you worried about the problem? I think is not so much classical economics as an academic discipline but I think the way first-year economics is talks. It focuses. This is very heavily on the simple models and as a result of that's all you take a lot of students end up after the class after the final exam what they were members or is the supply and demand curves and I think it gives them the belief that they have basically learned the secret to understanding all things when in fact the wall does a lot more complicated than that one model would lead you to believe more complex for instance the way you might regard the minimum wage after taking econ one on one. Yeah the minimum wage is a classic example example because you know a lot of people who are eighteen years old sink that a higher minimum wage is a good thing but then when you learn about supply and demand curves gives you a very powerful picture. Let essentially argues that increase in the minimum wage will effectively just increased unemployment. Now in fact. There's an ongoing debate. Among economists about uh-huh this is in fact true. But what I worry about. Twenty thirty years later when you're a member of the House of Representatives this is basically all you may remember. So what do you think. Should we not read intro ECON with my listeners. Or would you invite us to bring some critical thinking to bear on our reading. I think reading introductory economics is a great great part. I think that it's important to try to bring in context. One possible in some economics textbooks your hit over the head with very fictional settings to people on an island one of them farms and one of them hunts animals. And I think it's important and it's more interesting to think about broader questions about how economic institutions work about you know how technology increases living standards but also increases inequality. If you think about these kinds of questions at the same time that you're learning the mathematical models. I think you'll just have a better experience in a better Understanding University of Connecticut Etiquette Law Professor James Is Author of a book called economism bad economics and the rise of inequality. Thank you so much. Thank you all right so we'll try to get this right. You can participate as well. ECON one on one and read along with us go to marketplace dot org on the homepage and Click on the button that reads sign up for ECON extra credit. I'm David Brancaccio marketplace morning report from A._P._M.. American public media.

apple David Brancaccio ABC News Diane SWONK ECON US professor Snow Lewis Twitter Grant Thornton Chief Economist New Hampshire analyst James Kwok University of Conne Jasmine Garcia Understanding University of Co ABC POYNTER institute
Trusting News. Palatable, Digestible, Repeatable, Regrettable?

Health Hats, the Podcast

40:47 min | 3 months ago

Trusting News. Palatable, Digestible, Repeatable, Regrettable?

"I live in a bubble inside that bubble drop. My shoulders contain depressed. I can find humor and love and rest. I'm creative on productive. And i'm silly. Trust soaks the. Pete under the moss. I'm more of my bubble. I feel it's squished. Between toews the bubble moves with me. I can step outside the bubble. The bubble can subtly pop and explosively vanish indeed. When outside the bubble. I'm a bit or much more tense. I no longer feel that. Trust soap pete between my toes these days i see here and think about trust everywhere odile of trust overlays almost everything as if it's floating on the video of my mind's eye i see it with family. Friends were screens podcasts. News i'm frightened. How low the dial of trust appears most of the time sometimes dial tries to break itself Rotating and i'm a student of people communities leadership health and learning but i'm obsessed with understanding appreciating and strengthening trust. Oh goodness joy. I didn't plan this introduction. We met or when we recorded this per preface just appear my friend and coach jan oldenburg introduced to joy mayor when i told john about are safe living in a pandemic initiative as my obsession with trust first bloomed we sought expertise entrusting media media. Were regular people seek answers to their questions about safe. Living joy mayor is the director of trusting news a project that examines perceptions of news and trains journalists transparency and engagement strategies. That work follows a twenty year career and means rooms and teaching. She is an adjunct faculty member at the poynter institute and spent twelve years teaching at the missouri school of journalism as joy says at the end of our chat. I think those of us who are asking these questions about trust. My words across different industries can learn a lot from each welcome to health hats. The podcast i'm dan lewis a two legged sis. Gender all white man of privilege who knows a little about a lot of health care and a lot about very little we will listen and learn about what it takes to adjust to life's realities in the awesome circus healthcare. Let's make some sense of all of this joy. Thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it. I really like your work. This whole topic trust is just never ending isn't it. Yeah it's complex and sticky and gad difficult to peel apart for sure and therefore super challenging and a lot of job security for people who study it. There's just so much to look at there. Is what is trusting news trusting. These is a project that started quite small. Actually based on my curiosity and desire to learn more about how people decide what needs to trust. I had worked for a while teaching at the missouri. School of journalism and working in student staffed newsroom there and the field in journalism. We call what. I was doing community engagement or audience engagement but basically work was involved a lot of talking to consumers and being the face of newsroom and standing what they thought about our work and for mission driven responsible ethical journalism where the journalists themselves as really performing public service. We should care deeply about who we aim to serve and wetter. We're actually doing it. And what they think about our work into that was my job keeping the focus of the news squarely on the people. We aim to serve and being responsive to their feedback. I was realizing more and more that for for too many people. There was a basic level of distrusted prevented them from accessing will doing finding a credible. And so when i was leaving my job teaching there i thought i really want to understand more about what trustee can is and what journalists can do about it. How could we empower journalists to take steps. Turn trust and so what started as part time. Small research project has developed into a bigger program. Is that your your business now. I mean it's nonprofit but yeah that's my full time job there. There are three of us on staff. And we trainees newsrooms and work with newsrooms individually on how to demonstrate credibility and actively earn. Trust so your audience our journalists. And i think you said at one point teachers. Yup yup. We are a supply-side organizations. Not a demand side so we definitely work with and learn from people who work on. News literacy in media literacy more generally but our audience is not the general public We help journalists trade their audiences to be better news consumers but we are not direct to public operation. We are audiences journalists okay. I was listening to. What was it this morning. Some podcast and somebody was going on about. That just isn't true. Nobody thinks that. And i'm thinking what do you mean by. Does that mean you like did a study. And it wasn't like wasn't like ninety five percent so it could be provable. Or what do you mean bell talking about. Nobody and maybe nobody is seventy five percent and it was just anyway. I thought okay. This is good that i'm talking to you. Where're you and i met was in this safe living in a pandemic initiative i will say our end user a regular people trying to live safely in a pandemic but like you. They're not really our audience because it's just too big of an audience and so more were about people who are trusted by regular people and whether they're professionals or not it's those people that are audience but as we started trying to think about this issue of trust we quickly realized there was no way we were going to be a good housekeeping seal of approval for anything the variation in what people trust is just to monster. We didn't have the money the band with the interest and but we did come up with that. Trust occurs in a context for people so very simply their trust may be about their circumstances their personal histories their culture and then we started getting things about like their attitude towards personal rights and community responsibility. That's a continuum and it depends where people live on nat that the their risk tolerance so varies that their comfort with uncertainty and the strength of their critical thinking. But in a way. That isn't trust. it's just like about trust or the world that trust lives in. Does that resonate with you does that. How does that figure in your work all of that resonates because the news landscape is very complicated and people can get information from so many sources and the individuals sort of metrics. We us to decide what is credible. That's very personal and We place emphasis on different factors and some of us think about that a lot and some of us. Don't think about it at all. I'm amazed sometimes by the lack of attention. People pay to wear the spending that trust. I think it's useful to think of it as for budget. Everybody trusts something and you can spend it haphazardly. Spend your trust haphazardly. Inaugural given thought to it or you can have a care plan. Math out plan and everyone has to decide what to trust but simple. It's by default comes at people. They decided it's true or they make a quick judgment about a whole brand or a whole source of information or a friend that they think thinks like them decide to trust everything from that friend. All of that is true. And it's very complicated and one thing that we talk about a lot in our work is one really simple way to look at. Trust is the difference between effective trust and cognitive trust. So people who deal with facts like cognitive trust. That means. here's the list of why you can trust us here. Our sources here is our professional credibility. Here we're going to overwhelm you with information and give you the reasons you can trust us but none of that makes any sense unless you have effective trust which is do i feel a connection to you. Do i think you have integrity and ethics. Are you on my side or my team. Do i think you're a good person or a reputable organization that sort of affinity level of trust. And so i that what we try to peel apart. Trust and just looking at your sort of list of what people bring that people will have different values that they bring to their decisions and a lot of it has not articulated and not something. You can really talk. People out goes. I think is best work entrust like to think. Just talk enough about credibility that we will be persuasive. And that's just not the case so the word you used was effective as opposed to effective okay. Effective is interesting. The talking people out of changing people's minds about trust about something first of all. I'm terrible at it and i've never i don't like conflict. I'm not the guy to try to talk you out anything. Yeah but people try to talk me out of stuff absolutely and so. I think it's really important to look at trust spectra because some people are not persuadable. Some people are convinced that there's a microchip in the vaccine or that that everything if it's appears in the washington post of must be invented and or driven by a political agenda and nothing will never trust anything that comes from them. So if you are in fact committed your mistrust than you're not the focus of my work. We may get there eventually. But for now i think there are a lot of people who either make decisions very casually. Think about it very much. Who genuinely want to consume information responsibly. Arched or where to trust. Who are overwhelmed. All of my friends and family who email me and say joy is this true. Can you check this from me year. Is this an okay source of they wanna know but it's it can be genuinely quite difficult to tell what the source of information hasn't whether it's credible so if your audience is journalists and teachers and their audience is consumers how for those people who are susceptible to learning more about trust and their self awareness of how they trust. What are the guide posts of that. Our work is based on a foundation of transparency and engagement so transparency is how do you pull back the curtain on your vacations and your processes and your decision making it away that builds credibility and engagement is. How do you join conversations about your work to offer counter narrative about all that starts with understanding audience feedback and mis perceptions in this assumption. So you notice that your audience thinks that you make decisions based on money that obviously you must cover stories that will make you a bunch of money. You're gonna sensationalized stories in had newsrooms korean from people saying you're sensationalizing the pandemic because it drives ratings will what is your counter narrative. So news director comes back with a message that says actually the local business market is really struggling because of kobe. Bad affects our advertising and our income down this month so we don't have a financial incentive to a counter narrative that is educating people. How you operate so we talk about. What is it people. Think about your work. And what do you wish they knew about your work. And how do you. How do you take time and build into your process journalists. What it means to tell that story. You have ethics out. Interesting is your ethics policy published. What does it cover. And how do you draw attention to it. You link to it from stories where you reference it. Do you talk about it on air. Do you put it in your email newsletters or do you hope that buried on your website somewhere that people find it and take the time to consume it and understand how it relates your day to day decisions which is like a microscopic number of people right either. The people who love you hate you probably not busy people just wondering how to decide what you when they get their facebook feed and your headline. Is there whether it's reputable this business of self awareness like that to me. I don't know why but that really hooks me first of all in away self awareness. It's just it's about listening and this case to yourself and when you're talking about this news manager that's somebody who's listening to the consumers of news right. That's hard to do you're busy. Yeah and energy that particular means director actually and about how he makes time for engagement and he says basically that he doesn't understand why he would be in business if he didn't make time for it and that sunday's that's mostly what he does. That is if you want. Stay in business. Isn't it worth your time to defend your reputation. The news the local news businesses not in great financial shape. They need to be worried about keeping audience. Not losing it and if you're losing audience because of some basic misperceptions people don't know why there would be a paywall on these sites. People will leave comments saying you're so greedy doesn't advertising pay the bills. Why do you. Why can't why are you even sharing the story if i can't read it. Do you have a counter. narrative about what percentage of your budget comes from community support. Why you rely on. And how many local people employ. What would happen if you didn't do it. The fact that people get five free articles among free so they must care about local news. If they've reached the paywall right all these things you can say in responding and so you can either see the conversation to your critics and let them attack your integrity in the comments on your hosting you can see it to your credit or you can show up with a counter narrative and be part of the conversation. Correct the record. Don't let them have the last word about your integrity. Another thing that that was important to me in my development in terms of understanding was that there was a difference between factual and trustworthy. And since i'm involved a lot in the research community i realized that there's very little that's factual compared to commentary. What does what do the facts mean. There's more of it. There's more about what what do the numbers what does the with. Somebody is laying out is a fat. What does it mean. What's their interpretation of it. There are people who don't trust facts by sodium. Is this level on my phone. Sodium one hundred thirty eight okay. But that by itself doesn't really mean anything to me. It's zedek good number a bad number. So then that's pinon that's interpretation but so how does that fit in this trying to manage it sometimes interpretation or opinion and it's sometimes just context like four people of your age weight or whatever it and otherwise other health conditions. Let's put that sodium number in context. It's not your doctor in helping you interpret. That is not just issuing an opinion about whether it's good or bad. She is trying to help you understand where it fits in what it might mean so same things. To in journalism. There are lots of ways to lie with facts so lots of ways to say here is how many people are coming across the border and let people draw conclusions that if they lack the knowledge to say. Oh there's always a search this time of year or that was because of this. Bill signed by this administration or something then. It can be irresponsible to put information out if people might draw their conclusion and putting it choosing how to put it into context is absolutely matter judgments. i think it might be oversimplifying. Say it's a matter of a. I think that whether you have a goal of informing people persuading people as the real difference. Every journalist has their own expertise their own perspective on the world. And there's no way to separate us from who we are as human beings and so absolutely you're getting something of people's humanity as they make decisions what to cover and how to cover it. But i do think. There's a difference between contextualising information and opining on it with the goal of persuading people to think a certain way that makes sense. Yeah with the sodium. it could be. What was it yesterday or last year. And what is it now. So it's a difference. It's not just a point in time it could be a continuum and so then it's means something different when you look at where it's headed or the direction it's going or whatever so your doctor just extend the analogy if she wants you to really walk away from that interaction having learned something. She's going to anticipate ask you questions. Enough know what assumptions you might jump to about sodium number. She might be thinking. We'll test it again next year because it's never been high before it's probably no big deal and you could walk away going. Oh my gosh. i'm going to die. My name is high. And that's where that by adding that context is really important. Word about our sponsor. Abridge us abridge to record your doctor visit. Push the big pink button and record the conversation. Read the transcript or listen to clips when you get home. Check out the app at a bridge dot com eight. Gb are high d. g. e. dot com or download it on the apple app store or google. Play store record your healthcare conversations. Let me know how it went as consumers of information even though. I'm i'm up to my eyeballs in this stuff. I don't necessarily feel that. I am really good at deciding whether something is trustworthy. I have certain people that i follow. Because i believe them and they've not let me down. They've shown you in the past. They've earned her trust in the past by right things that make sense to you or that are consistent with how you see things or that scene. Well researched whatever your personal. That's just being efficient to sail. If i've decided now to trust them i don't have to assess them every time the i've made this decision. Yeah but then. I think like in my relationship with my wife who i've been with forty six seven years. She almost always right. It's just the way it is she. It's not one hundred percent. And so i still have to think in this particular circumstance is she right in. And that's somebody. I really trust so having his trust her integrity than if she weren't right she with acknowledge it. Yes absolutely okay okay. That's a that's an important distinction. Isn't it yet this political thing of like it's week to change. That is like beyond bizarre. Two but a lot of people just aren't some of that is information literacy in general like just understanding how it works right. You told me this last month and now you're telling me this yes we've learned things. Bright findings have evolved. Yeah and some people claim that journalists for that to say. You're not being skeptical enough. You're leading s the wrong information. I trust people less who aren't willing to admit change right. That is one way to look at the world's yes the world that way. What's that not everyone looks at all. That's the way i look at it. Okay in this project we. We started thinking about a trust label and we took the model of a nutrition label so nutrition label the sodium the calories the whatever that there's facts that are on the nutrition label but it doesn't say the food tastes good or is healthy for you and you have to draw your own conclusion based on that and we like that model and start thinking about if what we're trying to do is increase people's self awareness about trust. Could we design a trust label and we came up with really simple things like can i read it. Is that a medium. That's comfortable for me. Like i'm a podcast her but i have people who follow me who our readers so i do both the podcast and article. Great transcript so people who are readers can read like we talked about who wrote it or who spoke and that helps and do they have a vested. Interest is their research behind it and sometimes i think that's really exciting like we were trying to evolve this trust label with the idea that this could be crowd. Sourced like wikipedia on the other hand. Seems like nothing. And i know that my partner in crime laura l. says. Do you know how long it took to do. A nutrition label that was twenty year thirty year process. We're on your one of trying to do something like this if you were trying to do a trust label like what would you put on it. That would help. People be a little bit more self aware to help them think about trustworthiness. Such a it's such an interesting question and aknowledging the complexity of it off the bat and the imperfect nature of any solution is really important. There's an interesting efforts within journalism to media bias charts or ratings of news brands. That have a lot of research behind that. I think are really useful in terms of plotting certain news brands on a spectrum and helping people understand. Just make some basic decisions about what to trust. I think it's i think it's useful. The challenge is that there are so many variables and musicians are complex and there's a real place for journalism versus news and you're going to cover science differently than you cover sports. I think that assessing brands is different than assessing individual products. Individual stories even send a lot of authors are independent so if you have a newsletter. I really like how i decide. Whether that's trustworthy or credible have the shortcut. They're trusting brand so it's complicated. I was looking it at what you sent me. In terms of the nutrition label. There are some pieces that really stuck out to me as being especially relevant for my work. I think that the question of do they have a vested interest. Really jumped out for me. Who paid for this or or what interest is behind it. What sort of influences might be behind it because that is probably the most common pushback of news. These days is that it's driven by a political agenda or a financial agenda corporate agenda. And therefore i don't trust any of it or i don't trust this brand because of who owns them or something and what's interesting. Journalists are very skeptical of that the question a follow. The money is something you learn early internals in school. So who paid for this research and let's make sure we interview. Somebody who who didn't benefit financially from the research has recessive. whether it's credible what the inactive so it is reasonable as a consumer of information to say who is behind it and in my field. There's just a lot to pick apart there in terms of the funding of it journalist on talk much about where the money comes from and it's valid and important to ask questions about that in terms of the mission our motivation. What is the goal of that organization. What is the goal of this piece. Do i understand whether it is designed to inform me a persuading. Do i understand who the audiences for this publication who. They're talking to you whether i fit into. It is an independence from faction of any kind behind. The work is there. Is that sort of a statement of values that is there. That's a really interesting one to me. That i think goes across a lot of misperceptions of journalism. This question. who signed it. I think what. I just heard you say that is missing from our label is. How does the peace advertise itself does not the right words but are they calling it an opinion piece or a factual piece or a story or the that problem. But i can't. I'm so frustrated that as an industry we are still allowing there to be so much confusion. And sometimes it's a big problem. Baked into a whole product like cable news. I can't tell when. I turn on the tv if somebody talking. Page to share their opinion or sort of analyze commentate whether they're doing straight ahead reporting whether someone's even like a paid staff member or a source sometimes. It's very hard to tell the eight people around the table. And i don't know what i'm listening to versus an opinion column written for a newspaper but and it might be labeled on the website as opinion but when you pasted on facebook word opinion doesn't appear anywhere and also seized going by in their feet. Is this story with this brand. And the headline is written in a way. That's clearly designed to provoke her or persuade something but that labeling doesn't translate to all the different technical platforms so we are allowing way too much confusion in terms of just the package we put news in and whether people know what it's designed to be because some people share opinions on purpose one newsroom. We are working with dick community. Why the survey and somebody wrote in and said you need to fire your restaurant reviewer. She's way too biased. Because they didn't understand that of course. The person reviewing restaurants is paid to share her opinion about the restaurants nuts. Part of media literacy in my world is what is this. Is this doing what sets out to do. And as being honest in its approach trying to make complicated things simpler is a bit and think about. I'm not a journalist. I'm a podcast her. And but it's a mix of these are my opinions by try to put sources in las vegas to more information. But you don't know. I don't know how people take what i say. I just think i'm a little danie van lewin and i've a big mouth. Yeah you know and a lot of energy. You can't control people do what you say but you can be aware of how you might be misunderstood or whether you might be accessible. So how does a journalist do that. Some of it is dependent on the brand level relationships. Why do people tune in to this podcast or this tv station. What are they looking for. Are they in a hurry. Are they watching something while they cook dinner. Do they listen to this. Because it's an in-depth take on complicated topics. When note that i made with your question of can i read. It isn't accessible to me. I was also thinking visit. Assume a level of knowledge. That i don't have people are very turned off from news sometimes because journalists often right for other nerds and of a story today about the big transportation infrastructure bill making its way through congress is going to assume all that i've been following it closely so i may want that and may be dying for the update of what happened in committee since yesterday or i might be saying. What's that big thing happening in congress right now i'm not paying attention to and i might just want somebody to say. Here's what biden proposed. Here's this is following up from a campaign promise. Here's a top bullet-point. So that i don't feel stupid at work when somebody mentions it so i think people have different relationships sources of information but a basic level of accessibility. Is this meeting me. Where i am on this issue brute and it may or may not that is not really the whether it's trustworthy or not it's it is whether it's relevant this is where trust means so many different things. Do i feel a connection to do. I trust it. Some people might mean by that. Is it useful. It's not useful to me if i don't understand it or if it's only repeating things already now so what should we talked about that. We haven't. I think that my work is really based on the relentless understanding of and focus on the user experience and. I think that there's a lot that we do thinking. Were earning trust. That is not actually helpful. That performative like if an complicated story. I would like to explain why. I trusted the stories. Involved the sources involved in this story and why hosted the story. But i answer those questions in a really boring video that it takes eight minutes to watch. That's not helping anything. He's only. your mom is going to watch that video or you have to be aware of how people are finding. Everyone is searching your website for piece of information and you did a story but it had totally the headline on it and be your search engine optimization. All wrong and people are landing on a story from last year at this time when they were asking a similar question. And there's nothing on that story that makes it obvious enough that it's an old story. Said you might think we did our job. That's just on them if they find the old story. There's just a lot that gets in the way of trust this hairless on our part as information providers and so i think that question of i guess i just. What would put a bow on this by saying that for me. Trust work has to begin by identifying the obstacles to trust what gets in the way of people finding credible and that is going to be different if your cable news or a weekly community newspaper. It's going to be different depending on whether you have a tight geographic focus or you cover a niche topic for the world and it's really about just a deep understanding of what people are looking for from you. And what you what they do. Don't about you and what you want them to know about you. And so there aren't a lot of cookie cutter solutions but the concepts of what do you value as an organization at what value you provide being clear on those things so that you as as a as you're building a relationship that's what trust is is. You're building a relationship. What is it based on. What sort of shared understanding values is based on. That's going to be different for different organizations. That's profound the. Chew on that. Self senator guy and i just play everything to myself. I do. yeah. I think about one of the things that i do. In my my intro to my podcast. As opposed to the intro to an episode is by just have that on the two legged six general white man of privilege to set the context. That where i'm coming from. So that in ten words or whatever that is five laid out something. And i wear all these hats that by have by different experiences to try to give context for whatever tumbles out of my mouth or my channel or my whatever. That's an important part of trust. I think one challenge is that some basic values of news Can seem outdated in as news. Because plenty of people will say that they. They prefer to get their news on youtube. And they wanna who's talking to them when they want to be able to see that and they're building a connection and don person may be as honest about where they're coming front. We'll see in the research about news consumers that somebody saying i get my information christian radio because at least i know where they're coming from. I don't mind. They have a bias in a world view their honest about it and so the sense that people know that journalists are human beings and we bring our worldview with us to the job. That's just there's really no way around that. They're professional standards and practices that keep each other accountable and where we learned to set that aside in filling the gaps of our own perception and understanding. But we're still human beings. And so i think that honesty and transparency about who we are and where we're coming is key anything you wanna ask me. I think that i would like to know if what that i have said. Does not make sense in your world. What have i said about trust. That is different than how you would interpret. And you're like said already. I think it's the dimension of transparency that you brought out that i hadn't thought about. Is this an opinion is this. Am i reporting. Some history am i. What is this. I know that in my work. When i had part of my career words i was director. Vp equality management and health. Care and. often. I would say to my staff or i would ask them or i would preface what. I said that this is great. This is great. be. This is grace zi. I have no idea what grade this is trying to give some context about what we know and so i think i had a sense of that but i don't know that i think about that went. I'm listening or reading. Obviously when i was telling you at the beginning of out that somebody said that there was zero something minute that was bs that just made no alec right. It was just like ridiculous. Like how could that be and if someone values precision then that made you question the credibility of the overall product. Yes maybe that's another part. It's another part of what you said. That intrigues me. Is you can fall off the cliff. Ups trust when somebody made a mistake. They just made a mistake. And then all of a sudden you don't trust him anymore. wow so that's valid. Sometimes a design of a much bigger problem or sloppy work in general. It's like someone transposed to letters when spelling your neighbors kids name in the sports section five years ago and you decided they must just do sloppy in general. Yeah it's that is one criteria and value on different things. I think this this increasing awareness about trust is really honorable work. I'm really glad you're doing it. I enjoy actually. I can handle it in small doses because it really. I feel like every time. I get into something if i was going to say it's a rabbit hole. It's too dramatic but it it just lays bare complexity and it's ideal there's enough complexity so it is important to take complex topics and make them digestible. So i guess that's partly what you're trying to do is give people things to hang onto and think about that you're right there's a lot to know and understand there is i follow aaron carroll. He's a physician at the university of indiana. He does some great where it. What's oh my goodness. I forget the name of it. I'm going to have to edit in the name. So that i recognize them. Okay i remember. Aaron carroll has a podcast. A youtube channel called healthcare triage. i'll included in the show notes. I trust them because he really tries to break down the complex and he'll say how much how confident he is of something or that it's evolving or this before and it isn't i don't think this anymore. That's that's that's what we were saying earlier about. Valuing the idea that information could change or that not all is known and for some people that hinders trust. Because like you don't even know what you're talking about and for other people the acknowledgement that there is something not known or the. This story isn't answering all the questions or that. Something more complex than you can explain in this format or whenever some for some people that that level of transparency builds trust. Yeah thank you. This is great. I really appreciate you taking the time conversation. And i think those of us who are asking these questions across different industries can learn a lot from each other. Yeah yeah good all right. I'm sure our paths will cross again. I have sat thank you. I loved that we circled back to the metaphor of trust as digestible. I think a lot about a nutrition label trust. I probably won't live long enough to see that. Developed tried tested and used. There's so much tension trust the tension of people's bubbles against each other as an affect of versus cognitive trust connection versus watching persuadable or cast in stone fax context and opinion. Can we live with what we see when we learn how the sausage of trust is made as a change agent. I subscribe to demings theory of profound understand to me. It means understanding as much as you can about organizations and its people and processes and then work on change. Do i really wanna provide. Do i really want a profound understanding of the trust. Mike hose squish in. Can't i just enjoy it. Thanks to kayla nelson web in social media coach. And joey van lewin musician and arranger notes previous podcasts and other resources through my website. Www dot health dash hats dot com. Please subscribe and contribute. If you like it share it. Thanks see around the block.

jan oldenburg poynter institute dan lewis School of journalism and worki missouri school of journalism toews laura l Pete missouri washington post joy bell facebook danie van lewin confusion john congress