20 Episode results for "Powell"
EVs: Battery as a service (Teaser 2)
"Specify what powell solutions that would drive into the market going to hire voltages and more efficient than conducted devices. Were able not only to reduce the time that you're charging but also able to increase the autonomy that you haven't vehicle so i like to say you know we're from the sun to the wheels. It's a generation. How do we We have policy solutions for clean energy. We shipped those products into solo. Inverters capable refacing seventy coal fire power plants. So it's really bringing the most of the energy from the sun and eight through the distribution to charging station.
Monday, November 25th, 2019
"Good Morning Pisces. Today is Monday November. Twenty two thousand nineteen Venus enters CAPRA corn. It takes a village make sure yours is populated with those who lift you up. This is Pisces today. A podcast original. Let's begin your day. Not everything that you feel passionate about needs to be vocalized. This could be helpful to remember when you're on. The verge of an outburst. Consider who your words will help and who your words could hurt. If tensions are running high with volatile Scorpio. It may be best to steer clear. The fallout may not be worth saying your piece. Now take a moment to reflect on your or relationships with Venus and your friendship zone over the next month admirers might WanNa see more of you. EXPECT INVITATIONS -Tations to fund get togethers and events. If you're looking for love consider asking a friend someone may make an introduction. That proved proved significant. If Romance with Powell becomes a possibility. You'll want to be completely sure that you're ready to cross that line. Uh afterward there may be no retreat. Consider the work you do and your career. Defending your ideas could trigger an uprising in the workplace as assertive Mars opposes volatile Uranus. Stay open to new ideas and feedback back just because your initial pitch didn't go as planned doesn't mean that you can't arrive at a mutually beneficial end. Collaboration is is key high-seas today. We'll be back tomorrow to learn more about your horoscope visit California and connect today horoscope. Today is a podcast original.
"Due to the graphic nature of this episode listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of emotional abuse child pornography and murder that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen on December. Sixth two thousand nine snow fell lightly on the roof of Susan and Josh Powell's home in suburban West Valley City Utah just eleven miles outside of Salt Lake City. Twenty eight year old. Susan was exhausted or two. Young boys were running around the house and she was struggling to keep up. His wasn't the life she dreamed of but it was the one she had. Susan had spent the last few hours knitting blankets for her two sons. The one for her oldest Charlie had come out fine but the other for two year. Old Brayden was a disaster. Luckily she knew the perfect person to call for how it was early evening. When her friend? Giovanna owings came over. Susan wasn't feeling well and appreciated Giovanna 's willingness to help out as they make progress on the blanket Susan's husband. Josh went into the kitchen to prepare dinner when they all sat down to eat. Giovanna thought it was sweet. That Josh Served Susan her food first but she could tell. There was some tension. Nevertheless she held her tongue. Susan's marriage was none of her business. After dinner they kept working on the blanket but Susan was getting more tired with each passing minute soon. She excused herself claiming she felt tired and was going to lie down. Giovanna stayed help finish the blanket but at five thirty PM. Josh said he and the kids were going out sledding. She took it as her cue to leave and glanced back toward the bedroom. She hoped Susan would feel better soon. But that wouldn't be the case by the next morning the entire family was missing and Susan would never be found. Welcome to gone a podcast original molly. And I'm Richard every other Monday. We examined mysterious disappearances and the theories they spawned from the Amber Room to Michael Rockefeller Picasso paintings to the entrusting language the roanoke colony to the lost Russian cosmonauts. If it's gone we're looking for it. You can find all episodes have gone and all other are cast. Originals for free on spotify. Or wherever. You LISTEN TO PODCASTS. To Stream Gone Freon spotify. Just open the APP and type gone in the search bar at podcast cast. We're grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network? And if you enjoyed today's episode the best way to help us is to leave a five star review. Wherever you're listening. It really does help today. We're looking into the disappearance of Susan Powell. A mother of two from a quiet suburb outside of Salt Lake. City UTAH. Despite the Powell families picture-perfect exterior the in crisis after years of marital strife Susan vanished on the evening of December. Sixth two thousand nine. Two theories have emerged to explain what might have happened to her. Some believe that Susan may have dropped everything and run away with the lover others think that Susan never had a chance to leave because her jealous husband Josh murder. Susan Cox was a precocious ten year old. When her parents moved to the suburbs of Tacoma Washington in nineteen ninety one she was the third of four girls and her parents were used to having their patients tested the household as a whole was incredibly loving. There were also deeply religious and regularly attended a local Mormon temple. Susan's faith became a cornerstone of her life and dictated many of her decisions. She and her three sisters often played music and saying during Church Services. Her happy supportive. Upbringing helped Susan grow into confident. Bubbly Young Woman. She was extremely outgoing and her classmates knew her for her great sense of humor. She was popular and widely liked by the time she started high school. Susan had planned out her entire life. She was going to marry the perfect Mormon guy and open up a business with her sisters. A beauty parlour groomer hybrid where pet owners and their animals could both get their hair done. They were going to call it. Beauty and your beast. It was a fun youthful dream as Susan. Got Older or goals became more grounded. But she never let go of her love of the beauty industry when she was eighteen. A local cosmetology school offered her a scholarship and she sees the opportunity when Susan graduated from High School in two thousand. Her Future was looking bright. She dove headfirst into her classes at beauty school. She was often spotted around town in her car. Upon closer inspection passersby would notice a pile of practice mannequin heads strewn across the back seat. Susan's friends were always sporting new hairdos. Susan had styled. While Susan worked hard in school she was still completely committed to the church and she was still looking for a future. Mormon husband which was incredibly important in her religion. The summer after she graduated high school she began to attend singles functions. That are local temple there. Eighteen year old. Susan met twenty-three-year-old Josh Powell. It wasn't love at first sight when he invited her to a dinner party at his apartment she turned him down however a few weeks later. Susan changed her mind and took him up on the offer. Maybe they were more people. She could meet their but surprisingly at the party. She found herself drawn to Josh. He was a little Dorky but she liked his dry sense of humor. He was different from the boys she'd met in high school. He seemed more adult. Sure he'd never gone on his mission which was considered a pre Iraq for a good Mormon husband but he was in church now so Susan believed his faith was pure class. Josh was enrolled in the business program at the University of Washington Tacoma which meant he was thinking of the future. She decided to stay late after one of his dinner parties to help him clean up and wound up staying over. They talked early into the next morning falling asleep while whispering secrets to one another. He told her his parents divorced when he'd been a teenager. And the turbulent home. He'd grown up in. He wanted a tough line with his dad was not only agnostic but staunchly. Anti Mormon citizens sympathized with Josh's struggles and admired his appearance commitment to the faith. They soon began to date. After only two months Josh proposed to Susan and she said Yes while it may have seemed fast to those outside of the community too many Mormons. It isn't unusual. The couple was married in a small ceremony at the Portland Oregon Temple in April. Two Thousand One shortly after the wedding. They decided to move in with Josh's father. Steve Powell the couple one to save money after all Josh needed to pay off his student loans however the life they found in Steve's home was less than ideal the house was crowded several of Joshua's siblings were living there with their families. To and Josh's Dad was odd. He often had his video camera on hand and recorded everything. He came across even the most private moments and often without permission. That wasn't the only source of frustration. Citizens started to feel pressure. Put Her dreams on hold. Josh was close to graduating with his bachelors and neither knew where they go after he got his degree. If he found a job out of state she didn't know if she could finish beauty school but Susan told herself didn't matter she loved Josh so she was okay waiting for him to make the big decisions about their lives in two thousand two. Josh graduated from the University of Washington Tacoma with a business degree it was joyous time for both his hard work. It paid off and they were going to really start their life together but Joshua's various business plans never panned out. He lacked follow through. He got an entry level job. But they stayed at Steve's House Josh couldn't afford to pay off his loans and make rent and things were own getting stranger at home. Stephen taken an odd liking to his daughter-in-law he regularly made awkward comments about Susan's body. She acted as if nothing was happening. Only shrugging them off. Hoping he'd get the hint but Steve Only escalated his attention. Susan could tell someone was going through her laundry sometimes. Her underwear would go missing. She tried to ignore it. It might have been one of her young nephews just playing around but she could never shake the thought that it could have been Steve. Two in two thousand and three things came to ahead. Josh had considered becoming a commercial truck driver and Susan went along with him to a practice class for moral support. She was waiting for Josh's class to finish when Steve called and offered to drive her home. She agreed but on the road. He professed his love for her. Susan was floored but she kept her cool. She laughed off his advances as nothing more than a joke and kept quiet for the rest of the ride when they got home. Susan went to her room and waited for Josh when he finally got back. She told him they needed to leave. It was non-negotiable. There were only a few places they could afford to go one being Salt Lake City. Where one of Josh's sisters lived. They packed everything and left on Christmas. Eve thousand three for a year. The couple lived with Josh's sister then in two thousand four. They bought their own home. Initially Susan. Hope. This was a fresh start. But their marriage only went downhill. Josh couldn't hold down a job and Susan had to pick up his slack. She gave up her dream of her own does Matala she business accepting a job at wellsfargo. Josh was frustrated by the turn their lives and taken and stopped attending church. Susan was even more disappointed in his lack of faith. But just as the mirrored seemed unsalvageable. She discovered she was pregnant. Josh seemed really excited to be a father so he and Susan committed to making things work in two thousand five. Susan gave birth to their first son. Charley and then two years later Raden came into their lives. Josh and Susan adored the boys unconditionally but their love for one another was routinely tested. Josh was increasingly controlling. He Criticize Susan for tithing or giving ten percent of her earnings to the church. She in turn became disappointed in his lack of business sense. This was never more apparent than the time he decided to become an independent real estate agent. He'd never sold a piece of property before but he signed a contract with the yellow pages for over eighty thousand dollars worth of advertisements. He quickly lost interest in the idea and stopped paying for the ADS. It didn't take long for yellow pages to file a lawsuit. Susan worked tirelessly to bring in enough money to afford groceries for her family and work off Josh's debts. She was still a dreamer but her dreams were a lot smaller now. She just wanted to be able to hold everything together. Her life was a far cry from what she thought it would be when she was eighteen. By two thousand eight their relationship wasn't shambles. She became increasingly worried that he would do something rash but she stuck with him because of her unwavering Mormon faith in the LDS church. A marriage is eternal and unbreakable even if the couple legally divorces God put Josh in her life for a reason and she wanted her kids to have a conventional family and either way she couldn't just leave. She knew Josh would do anything to keep the boys with him. She didn't seriously think he'd ever hurt his sons but she wasn't sure he'd be so protective of her. Just in case in two thousand eight she wrote a letter and put it in a safety deposit box. She told her co worker that if anything happened to her even if it looked like it was an accident. Josh had probably done something she told them the letter would explain everything. Eighteen months later she vanished coming up the day Susan disappeared. Hi It's molly. I'm so excited for you to check out the new podcast original series daily quote. If you haven't had a chance to hear it yet daily quote is two to three minute. Podcast meant to inspire uplift and motivate your day every day hosted by the extremely talented Cape Leonard daily quote not only shares a meaningful quote from history but also gives you the context in meaning behind it and right now. I'm thrilled to be able to share today's quote with you. It's by the American poet singer and civil rights activists my Angelo. If you enjoy this episode make sure to follow daily quote free on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Good morning and welcome to daily quote. A podcast original. I'm Kate Leonard. Today's quote is from award winning author poet and Civil Rights Activist Maya Angelo. She said have enough courage to trust. Love One more time and one more time. Maya Angelou is best known for her. Nineteen sixty-nine Memoir. I know why the caged bird sings. It made history as a first bestselling work of nonfiction by a black American woman. Hers is a story of immense strength born in segregated. Saint Louis Missouri. Maya could have easily grown to hate those who oppressed her. She could have allowed bitterness to define her outlook limit her future instead. She chose to love herself and allowed that love to validate her ambitions. She became an actress and performer. A leader in the civil rights movement and an award winning Memoir Ist and poet. It takes radical courage to love ourselves. We will not always succeed. We may feel discouraged when our go unmet or relationship breaks but if we can have the courage to show ourselves compassion we will always be able to begin again this morning. Take a moment to honor the things you cherish about yourself. Acknowledge the progress. You have made on your journey of self discovery. You deserve to fall madly in love with the person you are. And the person you'll become daily quote is a daily podcast. Follow on spotify to make it part of your morning routine and let it inform the rest of your day. Daily quote is a podcast original. If you're listening on spotify you can share this quote with your friends on social by tapping the three dots in the top right corner of the episode. Page scrolling down to share and selecting your sharing option of choice. Remember you can find new paths to positively three hundred sixty five days a year followed daily quote free on spotify or wherever you get your podcast now. Back to the story. Susan and Josh Powell had been married since two thousand and had two young boys Charlie and Britain but their life in suburban Salt Lake City was anything but ideal. Josh was increasingly controlling. But Susan didn't feel like she could leave her marriage. They were all last seen together on the evening of December. Sixth two thousand nine by a neighbor who was helping Susan Nigga blanket the next morning Monday December seven daycare owner. Debbie Caldwell noted that Charlie and Brayden Powell didn't check in their usual time. She called Susan but didn't get an answer. The boys absence was unusual and Susan ignoring her phone even more so debbie hopped into her car to visit. Susan at home. They've been dusting of snow the night before and Moore was on. Its Way. The roads were a little slack. Nothing UNUSUAL FOR UTAH. It was bitterly cold as debbie stepped out of her car. She couldn't see that anyone was home but it was hard to tell from the street. Debbie walked up to the door and knocked no answer. She Tried Josh's phone but the results were the same. She appeared in the window but couldn't see anything. Debbie was getting worried only a few weeks before another local family had been killed by carbon monoxide poisoning in their home. She hoped the Powell's had met the same fate. Debbie called Joshua's sister Jennifer to see if she knew anything. Jennifer was just as concerned as Debbie. When she heard the boys hadn't shown up for daycare they decided to call the police and ask for a welfare check less than an hour later. A squad car. Roll down the street and pulled into the driveway. The officer was polite and agreed to take a look around. He glanced through the window but couldn't see anything. He has Jennifer if you had permission to enter the premises in. She granted it. The patrolman broke a window and climbed into the House then. He came around and unlocked the door for Debbie and Jennifer. The first thing they noticed was music. It came from a stereo in the living room. As did the sound of a box fan humming by the couch. The Fan was pointed at a damn spot on the carpet and furniture. Something had been cleaned up since it was still slightly wet. He knew the family hadn't been gone long. They called out for the Powell's no answer. The officer checked each of the bedrooms. Nobody was home but they noted a few clues. Susan's purse was on the cabinet in the hallway and when they went to check the garage. The mini van was missing Jennifer new. The Powell's wouldn't just leave town without telling her first and Susan definitely wouldn't leave her purse behind. They continued to phone. Josh Hoping He'd answer and tell them that was fine. Jennifer couldn't bear to wait around in the eerily empty house. She went home where the hours stretched on still no word from her brother and his family while the clock ticked the police department put together a search team. A few hours later lead detective. Ls Maxwell arrived the Powell residents as he stepped out of the patrol car. He noticed a group of neighbors gathered outside. The neighbors. Were happy to talk to the detective. All defending Susan. She would never have done anything like this without telling them I. Her boys were her world and she wouldn't just take off disrupting their schedules. Josh on the other hand was a different story he was impulsive. The neighbors hoped that this was just another one of Josh's last minute trips that he'd simply convinced Susan in the boys to come along. They probably come home soon. Meanwhile word of the Powell's disappearance was spreading at three PM Giovanna owning the last person to see Susan alive got wind of the gossip. Her son was home from school and decided to call Josh to his utter shock. Josh answered panicked her son Hung Up. Giovanna grabbed his phone and called back. It rang rang and rang. When suddenly there was a click and meek answer it was Josh. Giovanna was square. Confirm with their questions. Where was he? Did he have the boys with him? Where was Susan? When was he coming home? He should know the police were looking for him. Joshes answers came slowly and he stammered through slightly confused. He had his sons and they were going to be back soon despite Yavuz please. He quickly hung up. It was a relief to know Charlie in Brayden were safe but Giovanna couldn't shake nagging feeling deep inside that all of the problems were just beginning two hours later. Josh called his sister Jennifer she answered but like Giovanna. She was concerned by his tone. He didn't give a concrete nation for where he'd gone and he hung up abruptly after getting off the phone. Jennifer raced over to the Powell House to wait for Josh there. She found detective Ellis Maxwell and filled him in the detective immediately called Josh from her phone and told him he needed to come home now at six forty pm. Josh drove up the street past the police cars and onlookers before he pulled into his driveway. Detective Maxwell was the first one to make it to the car from the driver's seat. Josh only stared at him blankly. It seemed that he didn't care that so many people were looking for him. Maxwell saw the two children in the back. But there was no sign of Josh's wife Susan however the detective noticed her phone on the passenger seat. He asked the Josh where his wife was. But Josh said that he had no idea he'd last seen her the night before but he'd been gone all day. He taken the boys out on a camping trip. That answer made little sense. Why would josh go out camping in the middle of the night with his two young sons? And why would he take his wife cellphone on top of that? It had been Sunday evening. Just a few hours before Josh was supposed to go to work and it was snowing. Maxwell told Josh that he needed to come to the police station for questioning. Josh agreed and trailed Maxwell's car he let the investigators know that he would help them in any way that he could but he was adamant that he hadn't seen Susan's since the night before at the police station. Josh was taken into a small room there. Maxwell asked Josh if he had any idea where Susan could be. Josh said he simply had no idea. Maxwell kept on questioning. Josh gave shifty answers. He claimed he'd gone to a place called Simpson Springs campground to try out some new camping equipment. He said he'd simply lost track of time thinking. It was Saturday instead of Sunday drew maxwell. Josh seemed extremely uninterested in helping locate Susan. He didn't show any sense of urgency regarding her disappearance. He just kept repeating that. He didn't know why she'd left. Everything about their marriage had seemed fine to him. It was frustrating. But there was only so much they could do. Maxwell let Josh go after their interrogation after all he hadn't been accused of anything at nine PM on December seventh. Two thousand nine. Josh Powell drove home again and parked his van. Neighbors later reported that they saw the light in the garage all night long and heard the sounds of cleaning by the next morning word. Got Out that. A suburban woman had gone missing under mysterious circumstances. The local news station followed the case closely two days later on December ninth. Detectives were back at the Powell residence. This time with a search warrant they were going to see if they could find any new information that could lead them to Susan in the living room by the Fan. They came across a few droplets of blood on the bottom half of the wall. They swabbed these incent them back to a lab for tests. The carpet gave up no clues. It had been thoroughly cleaned and didn't have any traces of blood. The van was completely cleaned out. Glaze were only able to find the camping supplies. That Josh had claimed he was testing the next day. The investigators drove out to Simpson's springs were. Josh claimed he'd gone with his two boys. But the harsh landscape offered no clues it had been snowing for the past three days and any tracks that could have been left were obscured. It was a vast desolate wilderness. And the police were unable to locate his supposed- campsite to an outsider. Looking in it appeared. Susan had been killed and Josh was prime suspect. His later behavior only made things worse. Josh quit his job. After Susan disappeared then pulled his two sons at daycare and on December fourteenth. He hired a lawyer claiming he was tired of being badgered authorities. Ten days later on December twenty four. Th Josh was publicly named a person of interest in Susan's disappearance it was the best that the West Valley Police Department could do. After all there was still no physical evidence. Even so suspicion was growing in the community and Josh wanted out of Salt Lake City from the sideways glances in the grocery store to the looks of judgment from his neighbors. He couldn't take it on January. Sixth Two thousand ten. Josh packed up his belongings and headed back to Washington. The police were powerless to stop him a month. After his wife went missing he too was gone and the moment he left. He stopped helping authorities altogether. The chances of finding Susan Alive diminish coming up theories on what happened to Susan. Was she a runaway in love or a victim of a tragedy. Now back to the story it had been. Nearly a year's in Susan Powell disappeared on December. Sixth two thousand nine. The authorities were fairly certain that she'd been murdered but they had no physical evidence to prove it. Their main person of interest Susan's husband. Josh Powell was hundreds of miles away. He and his two boys were living in Puyallup. Washington was the Josh's father Steve. He hadn't cooperated with the investigation since he left Utah. Meanwhile Josh and his son settled in with Steve. It had been six years since Josh's father hit on his wife causing the couple to move away but josh felt perfectly at home with Steve even better. The police attention wasn't so intense in Washington and out of the spotlight. Josh could look after his boys without judgment. Meanwhile he and Steve Tried to answer the accusations with their own version of events. They had a theory and they were going to let the media know about it. Josh and Steve said that Susan had run away to be with another man named Stephen. Coacher coacher was a thirty year old from Saint George a town in southwest Utah. They claim that he'd gone missing around the same time as Susan. Steve and Josh had Susan's diaries and claim that this wasn't the first time she lusted. After another man. In fact they said that Susan and coacher had been entangled in extramarital affair. Supposedly Susan had left to right after Josh wink camping with the boys she met up with coacher and they flew away together to Brazil coach. I was familiar with the country since he served as mission there the were shocking and completely out of character for Susan. It's nearly impossible to analyze this theory. Josh didn't offer any evidence to suggest that Susan had ever even met Stephen Coacher. In fact phone records showed that there was never any contact between the two of them coach. You're also had gone missing on December thirteenth. Two thousand nine almost a full week after Susan on top of that while he was from Utah. He'd gone missing in Henderson. Nevada local security cameras captured the last time. Coacher was seen the video showed him walking down a cul de sac in Nevada alone too many including Susan's parents. It seemed Josh was using this alleged affair to deflect attention away from himself and he'd only want to create red herrings because he was responsible for Susan's disappearance Susan's family and the local authorities long suspected that he'd murdered his wife. Even Susan herself testified to that possibility after her disappearance. The police located her safety deposit. Box the one. She told her co worker about inside was a videotape and a handwritten letter in the letter. She wrote her marital problems with Josh. And how she feared for her life if anything happened to her. She insisted that it would be Joshua's fault of you of her friends told authorities that before she vanished. Susan had given Josh an ultimatum. If they didn't fix their marriage she'd leave with the boys in the spring. Allegedly Josh couldn't deal with that possibility. Instead he killed Susan and left her body somewhere out in the Utah Desert. The evidence seemed to support this theory. A lab confirmed that the blood found on the homes wall was Susan's police. Also discovered that Josh had cashed out Susan's retirement fund and had placed a one point five million dollar life insurance policy on her where he was the sole beneficiary. However all of this still wasn't enough to charge Josh. Police didn't have a weapon. Or even any conclusive evidence that Susan was dead. The best lead they had was the blood but Susan have lived in her home for years. It wasn't unheard of for a trace amount of blood to have been splattered on the wall after a minor cut and with two small children spills on the carpet and couch were par for the course. Answers were allusive for detective. Maxwell and the West Valley Police Department with Josh. Out of the State. It was even harder to conduct an investigation. As the years passed they were unable to Locate Susan. Alive or dead since they couldn't find her. It was impossible to tie any evidence back to Josh. Coacher or anyone else but the PAO family saga was far from over in September. Two Thousand Eleven Police in Utah uncovered a suspected burial site in the middle of the desert officials in Washington rated Steve Pals home. He had a strong alibi for the night of her disappearance but they hope they'd find some kind of evidence awesomely. Something Josh had brought with him when he moved from Utah Instead. They found countless hard drives full of elicit videos and images many involve minors in some have been recorded by Steve. The police also found old videos of Steve Stocking Susan without her knowledge on September. Twenty Third Two Thousand Eleven Steve Powell was arrested on charges of child pornography and voyeurism. Nothing they found in Steve's home could be used to explain Susan's case and the search in the desert also turned up. Nothing but josh still felt the heat. The media attention in both states was back on the Powell family. Additionally Steve was no longer allowed to live with minors which meant Josh and his two sons needed to move. Josh claimed that he'd found a place to live but the court soon figured out that he was lying he was still residing with his dad. Custody was handed over to Susan's parents. Chuck and Judy. But Josh wasn't going to take the ruling lying down he went to the courts to fight to get his kids back after all. He hadn't been convicted of a crime and the government. Just take his sons away. The judge ordered Josh to go get psychological evaluations to see if he was fit to be the boy's guardian. In the meantime he was given supervised visitation rights. Josh hated that his boys weren't with him full time but he always treasured the hours they spent together. He settled into his new normal as best he could and he continued to resist the police's efforts to find Susan. By the time February. Two thousand twelve game around. She'd been gone for over two years and the case was cold. Authorities had discussed charging Josh for the crime but they couldn't find any substantial evidence to ensure conviction. They were helpless however they didn't let Josh note this publicly. He was still a person of interest and with more searches in the desert planned. They wanted Josh to sweat. He professed his innocence to anyone who asked he told them all he wanted to do was move on with his life so that he could raise his boys right. He was convinced that his sons were being corrupted into thinking he was a monster he couldn't bear to see them turned against him and to dark plan began to form well. Josh never admitted to any wrongdoing and Susan's disappearance his actions on February fifth. Two Thousand Twelve painted a grim picture of what he was capable of that morning. A social worker pulled up to Joshua's newly rented house for a supervised visit Charlie in Brayden. We're looking forward to spending time with their dad. As the car came to a stop they bounded out ahead of the social worker. She ambled up behind. The Ms Josh stood in the entrance. The two boys ran inside but before she could get there. The door slammed shut. It was locked she naught but Josh didn't open up. She immediately called nine. One one minutes later Josh's lawyer received an email with no subject line from Josh. The message was short. I'm sorry goodbye outside of his house. The social worker was frantic. She didn't know what Josh was planning on what he was capable love. No one was there to help and they wouldn't be for several minutes a moment later there was a violent blast and the house was engulfed in flames. It had blown up by the time the authorities arrived. The inferno was raging. Nothing to be done once. The fire was extinguished. Investigators surveyed the home. The bodies of Josh and his boys were found in the rubble. He'd intentionally set the fire and had attacked his two sons with a hatchet before the fumes got to them. The thin veil of presumed innocence could no longer protect him. The young family whose future had once seemed so bright came to an end. Because of Josh Powell given Josh's murderer of his children it seems almost like a foregone conclusion. That Josh had a hand in Susan's disappearance. His accounts of the night in questions seem incredibly suspect in his actions. Two years later proved that he was capable. But there's still no hard evidence to prove Josh Killed Susan or even that she's dead to this day. Susan Powell remains a missing person. No one has ever been charged with her disappearance. Thanks again for tuning into gone. We'll be back next week. Was a short gone. Bide on spotify and back everywhere else the week after you can find more episodes of gone and all other park has two originals for free on spotify. Not only the spotify already. Have all of your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy. All of your favorite podcast originals. Like gone for free from your phone. Desktop or smart speaker to stream gone on spotify. Just open the APP and type in the search bar and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at broadcast network. We'll see next time. Just because it's gone doesn't mean it can't be found gone was created by Max Cutler. In his parking studios original executive producers include Max and Ron Cutler sound designed by Scott Stronach with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly Madden and Travis Clark. This episode of Gone was written by Robert Tyler Walker with writing assistance by Maggie Admire and stars Molly Brandenburg and Richard. Rosner remember. You can find new paths to positively every day of the year. Follow daily quote three on spotify or wherever. You get your podcast.
8 - The Disappearance of Susan Powell
"Welcome to force talk or we're not really horse. We just like word word play. Hello welcome to horse talk horror. I'm sharon and i'm melinda and today we have our first. I <hes> true crime episode which were both very very excited to talk about today. We are going to be talking about the disappearance of susan powell all a doozy beatty and it's so good so if you've not heard of the story before get ready and if you have heard of the story before get ready cause you might learn some new stuff <hes>. I'm actually really surprised that neither of us heard the story before i i saw it on. I rely on my i._d. American murder mystery shows specials and this was one of them yeah and actually spencer told me about it because hulu recommended it that something for me to watch yes. Yes and i was like okay cool. I'm running out of things to watch and i've been binging evil here on investigation discovery. Oh yeah baby which is one of my favorites and so i just got a text from you. That was like oh my god. Have you seen the sewer susan powell yeah so so <hes> basically i started watching it and i was texting mini during the whole thing like holy shit. You have to watch the documentary guys fucking crazy crazy. Oh my god i got. I got no god like you have to watch this and yeah so if you're not familiar with investigation discovery. It's basically the best channel ever. It's all true crime all the time and between ide- h._d._t._v. i oh i don't ever need to watch anything else and if i._d. And h._g._t._v. ever joined forces to create a show that would be the best thing thing ever imagine a show where the first part was kinda like the first forty eight and they find some bodies in a house somewhere and the detectives come in they do their investigation investigation and collect evidence and gather suspects and they catch the killer and then the second part of the show could be like fixer upper and chip and joe and they like totally flip the house in joe joe would be like hey chip. What do you think we put some ship lap up on this wall over here to cover up this blood splatter and then you know we do tear out this blood-soaked drug and we add some wood grain ceramic tile over over here and that's that's my joanna gaines impersonation. I'm so sorry jonah. I'm so sorry george i love you and then you know the announcer announcer comes on and he's like what's chip and joe joe transform this bloodbath into a master bath see them turn this kill room into chiller walk in closet and then it could be called killer basis. I would only watch that. Why are we not t._v. Producers i know oh if any t._v. Producers out there wanna make this show. You know what i love. Chipinge fuck them. They've got enough money. Call us also. This is our idea shared. They really i should say but we it's documented yeah on our podcast. We even had this idea. I should host a show eight eight of nineteen. We came up with this idea. Idea me also sharon and tell me about that and i. I think that's a brilliant idea. We're going to be millionaire. I'll even though i didn't tell you about it. I'll give you partial credit. Okay thank you sharon that was amazing and now to get to the actual actual story of the disappearance susan powell what we are about to read our notes that we took while watching the investigation discovery documentary on susan powell and also the two part oxygen documentary on susan powell and also there is a short missing pieces pieces episode that covered the points that were not covered in the original idea documentary and let's begin susan. How was a twenty eight year old mother of two living in west valley city utah. She was married to josh powell. Who after you hear the story. Josh powell aw pretty much makes scott peterson look like an husband of the air so on the outside they looked like the typical mormon and family. There were very religious. They had a tight-knit circle of friends to the church but on december seventh two thousand nine susan and josh two young sons i had not shown them to their daycare center and the concern daycare owner and also family friend debbie caldwell realize something might be wrong when susan who has always on time dropping off the boys did not show up or call to let debbie know that they would be late debbie call susan josh's jobs and neither of them had showed up for work work day either and neither of them had called into her that day to say that they weren't coming in since this was extremely out of character for them. Debbie decided to drive to the powell's house and look for them. There is no answer at the house and there were no footprints in the snow and there are no tire tracks in the snow leading from out the garage debbie thought that maybe there had been a carbon monoxide leak in the house and decided to call joshua's sister jennifer jennifer and her mother arrived at the house and they decided to call the please sin. Susan and josh were not answering their phones. Please show it up decided that under the circumstances there may have been a carbon monoxide oxide leak in the house and decided to break the front window to get inside. The police searched the house and no one is there. There's no signs of force entry and the family vehicle goal is missing from the garage. Police also find susan's purse wallet keys and another small keys that they have no idea where those keys belong belong to and also her snow-boots are there even though it had been snowing outside. Detective ellis maxwell was assigned to the case as it looked like the entire family ahead now gone missing upon searching the house. Nothing looked out of place or unusual except for in the living room. There are two box vans. I had been propped up and we're blowing on the couch which had just been cleaned. Which was a little suspicious. A statewide bulletin was issued to search for the powell's minivan. Investigators gator started talking to the powell's closest friends and learn more about the couple. Susan was the girl next door extremely friendly and outgoing and one of four daughters who grew up up in washington. She was born and raised in the church of latter day saints. She wanted to get married. Start a family in two thousand even when she was nineteen years old she met twenty four year old josh at a mormon singles event. Josh had two brothers and two sisters. His family's started started out as a fairly strong l._d._s. family. Josh's parent start having a lot of problems. His mom teri ended up leaving his father stephen. After after a long drawn out divorce ensued stephen retain custody of most of the kids and josh head chaotic childhood susan's friends describe describe. Josh is being loud obsessive a know it all who liked to brag about himself and didn't like it when other people had conflicting opinions so he was kind of the opposite of susan and a lot of ways <hes> but josh and susan decided to get married about eight months after dating and to save money they moved and with josh's dead stephen who oh man this guy but they decided to move in with him for a bit before moving to west valley city utah utah two years later later to live closer to josh's mom and sister jennifer they moved to utah. They buy a house. Susan becomes a stockbroker and josh goes into i._t. Services they have two kids charlie and braden. I spill dot beaton think it was buried in the right. I think so too so about twelve hours after they had been reported missing around seven pm josh and his two and four year old boys come home but susan susan is not with them the please immediately walk up to the car and asked josh where he had been. He tells pleased that around midnight the night before he he decided to take the boys winter camping at simpson's springs all right. I haven't said anything until now because i just wanted to lay out the story and let you do the first half and whatever but yeah i was like who takes their what is happening in four year old kids midnight camping in a snowstorm which is exactly what detective islas asked him. I think we leave in the middle of the night during a snowstorm and he explained that he did this. All the time also forgot what day it was reported. We'll get we'll get to that sorry <hes> but yeah. They do this all the time. I'm and the boys want to go out and have some moore's at midnight as you know little kids. Do you do yeah good parenting his excuse for not answering his phone was that he he wanted to conserve his battery since he didn't have charter charter even though the cop was talking to him the detective was talking to them and saw the phone clearly being charged in the car so bullshit <hes> people who know josh did say that he was a centric and kind of a a weirdo so the fact that he took his boys midnight camping was not out of character for him. Which i'm sorry red flags right there i mean there's so many red flags redway from yeah. We don't live in utah so maybe people do go camping and camping with young kids. They do it all the time <hes> when the cop asks josh gosh were susan was. He said that she should be at work. Ellis told him that she was not at work that he needed to come down to the station. Asep meanwhile susan's friends were desperately trying to get a hold of her and find out where she was her friend. Q._c. called another friend giovanna who stated that she was with them the previous night. She said that josh was making dinner for them. Pancakes specifically for them while they were hanging out and talking talking in another room at the police station. Josh's being interviewed with his sons in the room and the detectives he stays at the last time he saw his wife was around around midnight the night before at home right before he left to go camping. She then went to bed win question about why he would take his boys camping hang on a sunday night when he had worked the next day. He said he forgot it was sunday even though there are a religious family and they more than likely i think went to church the day he's not mentioned like work to make living so you have to be there anymore. Yeah kind of need to keep track of the day one would think but you know whatever whatever i'm not a parent and i'm sure none of this is bringing up suspicion to the cops at all so his car car was searched and there was a bunch of camping equipment which is found in the car so that corroborated his story the next day he was asked to come back to the police station for questioning but without <unk> out his kids he didn't seem very concerned about his wife's while being while he was being interviewed. He didn't ask the police what they thought had happened to her or how he could help help. He's usually a very talkative person who never shuts up but when asked questions say very little to the police or he would just not answer their questions ends at all he also kept bring up the fact that the police broke a window to his house and seen way more concern about his broken window. The fact that his wife was missing so they they did mention this that i think <hes> the daycare worker and also maybe his family the face to the house but they had the well. They called the welfare check because they couldn't get a hold of anybody and that's how the cops broken window right according to him the daycare worker. I believe had keys to their house so it was like a widened she's user keys. I mean she might not have had them on her but he was kept saying you know. Why didn't she just use her keys again to the house. Why did they have to break a window window. Now have to pay for this window. Yeah not to mention my wife's funeral. I mean what so yeah he did not he. He was more concerned with the fact that the window is broken. The fact that his wife was even missing another red flag on top of men and many so far so while josh is being interviewed. He doesn't know that detectives are the other room talking to his kids when his oldest charlie is asked who he went camping with here's bonds he was camping with his dad mom mom and brother then when asked who he came home from camping. He said his dad his mom stayed at the park quote where where the crystals are. Maybe he's talking about icicles. That's a good point. I could not figure out what i thought he was talking about. Honestly i mean in snow snow and in the moonlight oh but the cave there's a cave mentioned yeah. There is <hes> they talk about. Were the the area where they went camping. There's caves. There's also minds so maybe the drop down in caves of might have looked crystalline because the cold wall there could be icicles goals hanging out from the opening caves on its cryptic regardless to stay with crystal as a very creepiest thing that your a five year olds or whatever say swim josh was given this information. He said that his kids relying so the cop said your kids lie and he said well yes sometimes which i mean kids lie. They don't tell the truth they especially when they're doing something wrong. You know kids are going to lie but in this situation what reason what the kids have have to lie plus. If you watch the special they show the police video and like the kid. I don't know how kids look when they lie really but he does not appear like he's literally just telling the story as he knows it. You can see it like it's not like he's making it up. It's not like yeah he stopping to think about the answer the questions he's just answering the questions and it was the big thing. It was a very nice female. Detective who is asking him questions. He was kind of a playroom and just kind of you know he he wasn't scared or is this like oh. I was with my mom my brother my dad. Oh we went camping. Oh who came home oh just me and my brother and my dad yeah. There is no like coercion or he had no reason to lie about any of this <hes> so the fact act that that josh would say that his his son made all that up doesn't father of the year another say another another red flag right there the cops and not have enough evidence yet to keep josh there or charge him with anything so they leave told him he can't go home because his house is now now under investigation <hes> they're collecting evidence there so it's pretty much kind of a crime scene even though he has not been charged with a crime yet officially so <hes> cops took ton of computer hardware <hes> drives towers from the house 'cause like we said josh hughes into i._t. The and we'll discuss it a little bit later but he yeah he used to make a lot of his own. Do it yourself computer which i was just gonna say that like when i watched the special i think somebody at one point says something about like oh and he had these souped-up computers and when they showed as computers theaters i was like okay. It looks like a monkey me that with paper and scotch team but that's just they were yeah. They were pretty bad looking. There is also a bunch of small small blood droplets that were found on the floor adjacent to the couch that was cleaned almost like someone had seized blood other members of the west valley city police force drove out to simpson springs to see if they can find any evidence or locate susan's body but due to fresh snow snowfall they could not find any evidence to corroborate the josh story or not without any other new leads they began to search through some of the external hard drives taken from josh's house. All the hard drives were heavily fully encrypted and the police cannot access anything on the drive which is shady in and of itself because why do you have so many heavily encrypted hard drives yeah breakfast so now december sixteenth with still no other evidence to help the police with their investigation and with josh seemingly obstructing the investigation they decide to officially make josh a person of interest however the police still do not have a clear cut motive owed of for why he would want to kill his wife wants all the focus was on josh as the only prime suspect in the disappearance of his wife he packed up all his kids and and moved to washington in the middle of the night without telling anyone and moved in with his father after media stations all over the country started covering this case and josh became the main focus the media obviously it was hounding josh for answers and interviews and he became more and more withdrawn he finally decided sided to do a one on one interview and announced that susan was very emotionally abused as a child. Her mother has anger issues and her a father is very manipulative which this is very typical of someone who is a suspect and you have a victim and that guilty person tries to put the blame on the victim to take yet to take <hes> fault away from themselves to me that is is another huge red flag that he is guilty because he's not showing any concern for his wife. The victim just pointing the blame elsewhere pointing the blame elsewhere. Oh aw so disgusting. He made her sound promiscuous <hes> like she was abused by her family and that her only choice left was to flee then then josh and his father start a website about susan with a theory that they came up with a what may have happened and i. I'm gonna say one hundred percent sent. This was joshua's father's idea to come up with this story hopefully <hes> so basically the story they came up with in put out on this website was that around the time of susan's disappearance another man around her age went missing names stephen poacher they basically he came out and said that the two of them probably ran away to start a new life together. Even though there was no evidence that the two of them had ever met so more more red flags being thrown up trying to place the blame on not only one but now two victims completely unrelated in my opinion but yeah they're just trying to take the heat off of josh because he clearly did it so at least that's my opinion and i'm sure it's minis opinion as well <hes> so then in february of two thousand ten susan's family held a press conference and came came out and said that susan was a victim of domestic abuse in her own home. Susan had a difficult marriage and an adversarial relationship with her husband. Josh susan told her front that she did not want to wear her parents so she shared very little for personal problems with josh with them. Friends believed that the dynamic of susan and josh's relationship changed when susan became pregnant with her first child he would treat her more rudely and talked to her while she was pregnant. She thought that maybe once the baby he was born. That things would go back to normal. Josh became super controlling over susan almost the point of being sadistic and this is where you kind of learn about joshua's true callers and man. The stuff just infuriates me. He would give her a grocery list list and say that there are items that are on sale at the store. You can buy these items and nothing else he would give her ten dollars and tell her that that was all she she could have to buy groceries for the entire week for a family who can feed a family of four on ten dollars a week totally that is that is impossible that is virtually impossible to do. I couldn't do that for just myself. Let alone own two kids and my spouse so she would be forced to call her friends to ask the bureau food for her kids defeat them because they're hungry and she we had no food for them. Meanwhile josh would go and stock up on food for himself like chips and salsa that he would keep in the house but she was not allowed to eat her and the kids were not allowed to eat the food that he would bring into the fucking house he would change the pin number on their debit cards ars so she couldn't take money out from their joint checking accounts even though she had her own job and made her own money and was self sufficient and she could probably nobly leave him take care of the two kids on her own but he would take all of her money that she worked for during the week colliding she firmly believed i mean she was very close to her religion and i think that she just believed by will be marriage is marriage and there's that common divorces sources horrible belief among yeah but that's what she was kind of holding onto. We're all assuming is none of us know because none of us know found but this says this is clearly spousal abuse and child abuse. You're basically starving your own children. I don't think any apps religion tells you that this is okay behavior. This is acceptable behavior and as we find out she definitely was planning to leave him over this behavior right but he had also over fused to buy presents for the kids around christmas so she would have to hide money from him so she could buy them gifts. I'm not sure how maybe she talked to her. Work irk and said you know. Can you put a little bit of money aside in a different account. I'm not really sure how she got money since he seemed to control of it. They didn't really go into those details. No her friends knew about it. Though so maybe like a well we're not going to suppose yeah. I'm not really sure how she got this extra money to hide since he seemed to control the money so meanwhile meanwhile joshua spending thousands of dollars electric toy cars because all adult men need electric toy cars he would also spend the money on computer equipment and for some reason thousands of pounds of wheat it was like he was stocking up for armageddon was the thought that i had and also was what do you the electric toy cars. When the world come into you know they showed photos of the he literally had these big brown containers in a room of weeks who knows what the faulk he was gonna do with my other thought was just that he was like i buy all of this like as an intimidation like i'm giving you ten bucks for the week to feed her family but i can buy all of this. Maybe she was supposed to like make food with the we like make make their own bread. I make their own pastas and right away. I went to armageddon but whatever i mean armageddon i did see if he was buying like guns but electric cars and computer equipment. That's not going to help you when the end of the world here right the wheat. I i'll give give you that but not the rest of the crap. He was fucking buying <hes> and then there was also at least one known incident. Were josh got physical with susan susan so phone tips started coming in about josh. One tip came from a guy named scott who josh at a christmas party a year before susan went missing thing he said that josh was talking to him about the best ways to dispose of a body and that he would dumb it down a mine shaft like a vertical one because it's so unstable no one would be able to search for a body in there <hes> good. No thanks yeah. That's you know normal cocktail party conversation. That's not suspicious that all which go going back to the talk about mom is where the crystals are. I mean yeah maybe there is like a open mine shaft off that had icicles or something hang from it and he pushed susan down there in told the kids all moms just gonna go hang out with the crystals so then in the summer of two thousand ten police mounted a massive search for susan's remains in the west deserts deserts of utah where there are tens of thousands of these mines and by august of two thousand ten. Please had logged over six thousand man hours in the desert but their searches came up m._d. Shocker that i mean he was right. If there's a place to hide a body that would be the the police and no matter how many hours you spend on there it was probably impossible to find every single mine and if you could you probably probably would not be able to get to the bottoms of these minds to find out if there's any remains precisely yet and by that time who knows you know with decomposition if there would've even been watch left of her body so now it's august of two thousand eleven susan still missing and the case is still at a standstill and with not enough evidence to arrest josh investigators now start to look at josh's father who is josh's the biggest supporter and my favorite part of the story and i don't mean that in a good way i mean he's definitely the most fascinating part and we definitely learn why josh is the way that he is. We will find out various so susan's family truly believes that josh has something to do with susan's and disappearance and they won't let up on him so they get a restraining order against susan's parents because once again let's blame someone. Anals susan's parents are now the bad ones so let's get a restraining order against them to keep them away from josh because they just want answers and they just want to know where their your daughter is but josh is once again the victim here and the two families hate each other the police and the lawyers dis- the police and the lawyers for susan's family. I should say they come up with an idea to stir up emotions from josh and his father hoping to glean some new evidence that will lead them somewhere somewhere in a new direction they decide to organize a honking wave which if you know that is because hong wave sound sounds <hes> it's kind of literally would it sounds like though really well unless you kind of dirty mind and that it sounds like something completely different <hes> but yeah it literally is just holding up signs like have you seen susan powell with pictures of her on it and honk. If you care you care you know wave us something. Let's open this case up again. It's been years get more attention exact get more attention. Get more publicity anything to help find. Our daughter and i should wash monitor jack. You're that when susan's parents did this specifically father. I think was kind of really mostly like the ringleader. Now i wanna say ringleader but he kind of helped organized. They had a good reaction because is in the special. They show them susan's family with a bunch of onto. Here's doing you know holding up. Signs and people are honking and wailing and there is a camera crew. Oh yeah no so it was pretty successful and i'll let you take it from here. It was very successful and it did exactly what the police and lawyers wanted it to do you did so the honking wave was near an intersection imbiber she store that josh frequence and it's all over the news so josh and his dad's stephen see it on the news and decide we're going to go down there and we're gonna yell at susan's dad and we're going to accuse him emma being in violation of the restraining order because josh shops at the store so susan's dad who is a very smart man he has house a copy of the restraining order with him that states that basically he can shop wherever he wants to shop. Even if josh is there and he just can't walk up to josh you know as long long as he doesn't do that he's fine then after <hes> steven powell is there yelling at susan's dad which was recorded and there's like a length league the back and forth which allows them and like a steven powell is going at it and like yeah i mean another. One of those instances says where you're thinking that like maybe your internal monologue would say like maybe you should stop talking now but like he just word vomit all over because he's a narcissist yeah yeah exactly. He wants to be on the news. He wants to get his point across. He doesn't think of consequences like most narcissists. They don't think of the consequences consequences. Meanwhile josh also pulls up with his two boys in the car and gets out and talks to the cameras. He's crying and he's saying that there's so many a personal attacks on him all tiny little violins <hes> there's so many personal attacks on him being led by chuck cox who susan's father and then and stephen powell's tells the cameras that josh and him have lots of information about the cox family and susan which is detailed in susan's journals and the journals contain a lot of important evidence relevant to her disappearance so of course the investigators here this because he says it all over the a fucking news and use this opportunity to get a search warrant in raid stephen powell's home to find tons and tons of disturbing evidence which we will now get into and this is probably the most disturbing during part of the whole i mean the whole story is disturbing her disappearances disturbing definitely the end of this story is disturbing thing but also like don't go on t._v. And be like oh by the way we have a bunch of evidence that the police might want but that's exactly what he did so even and might as well just said come over to our house and surjit cause we got shit. You wanna see i mean maybe there is a part. I want to get caught but i doubt well but here's going to tell you what they did. Find in stephen house. I'm gonna throw up in my mouth a little a while. I'm talking about this so they go to the house and they do find susan's journals but they also find stevens journals detailing about how he is madly in love with his daughter in law and not only was he in love with her. He wanted to marry her. He even detailed about how he masturbated astor baited to her in his master closet there were bags of susan's panties her use tampons bags of cotton balls that she would use the take offer nail polish that were put into ziplock bags and they were dated thorough also many songs that steven wrote about her because he's also so a song writer. He's not just a nurse and a creep and we'll also find out in a few moments about a vile but he's also so songwriter. He's not a song writer spoiler alert. He's kind of his songs kind of suck. He's a renaissance man so we're gonna play one of the songs that steven wrote about his daughter right now in this is doctor in law. Sorry oh i'm sure i sleep rewrote songs about his daughter to he is a mother. Fucking creep are so this is actually stephen powell singing unsure doc okay so that was something your typical father in law. This is something you write about your daughter. In laws. It's is totally normal along with collecting extremely personal items that others would call trash so easily he had a whole collection auction of songs that he wrote about his secret love for her in he how he was sexually obsessed with her and he would also follow her when she was out without her even knowing about it and take photographs in video of her he had tons of photos photos of just her body parts or her head and face superimposed over other women's bodies. Susan confided in her friends at the real reason they moved to a utah was just to get away from her father because he was despicable disgusting and evil he would try to take pictures of her under the bathroom door or just walk up to her and touched her inappropriately. She told josh that they needed to leave and he would just brush it off like it's not a big deal. Oh that's just my dad because that's what josh grew up with. He grew up watching his dad. Treat women like that and do things like that. Which is i'm sure why his mom left you know the police found all this evidence <hes> but they did not find any evidence that would connect stephen or josh to susan's disappearance <hes> and then in the the oxygen documentary the two part series they actually go into this much much more deeper than they do in the documentary and they actually show a lot of the videos he would take he would take videos of himself of himself alfa masturbating to pictures of her or talking about him masturbating to pictures of her and clarify this is steven powell the talking about the a father and yeah and there was one in the bathroom wasn't there and she was like get outta here whatever yeah and then there is also a video where he he had some of her lingerie that he put over a pillow with like a photo of her face and you can only imagine what he does to that. I'd like to not thank you pillow but yeah he was a completely disgusting human being and if that is not bad enough. The police also found photographs. That's even took of two underage girls who live next door <hes> photos and video of them getting undressed sitting on the toilet and the bathtub so obviously this is a felony so stephen was sent to prison for child pornography and voyeurism him and he was giving given eight thirty month sentence and let mindy tol the rest of this the horrifying story so meanwhile <hes> detective maxwell discovers that susan had a safety deposit box and if you watch the i believe it's the i._d. Special right that starts off with her holding video camera talking into the camera saying these are my assets so that's they kind of set that up at the beginning and then it pays off later which is kinda fun not fun but you know what i mean really get it later kind of rewarding because she she knew she had to get away adleman yeah exactly and she was doing all the right things to try and get away from him but unfortunately she often have something yeah so anyway so <hes> meanwhile detective maxwell discovers that she had the safety. Susan susan had the safety deposit box and he remembers the random key found with susan's belongings the day. She was reported missing so he he conferred. He's able to confirm that the key the open a deposit box at a local bank and inside police discovered a video documentation susan made of her assets like we were just saying along along with a hand written letter by susan literally saying it's relaxed willard estimate and that whatever happens this letter should not not be given shown josh because she doesn't trust him. This letter basically details susan's abusive relationship and states that if something happens to her even if it looks like a legit accident accident excuse me josh is the one responsible at the same time. Police are able to crack some of the encryption on one of joshes. External hard drives which again for home use. Why is your shit so heavily encrypted side note and are able to view his recent browsing history. Always clear your browsing history people unless you're criminal then don't do that because that will help mcleese catch you because you need to be locked away and if she kills me until john ralph izzo to clear my browsing history parks and rec reference. Thank you very much sorry side note so the cops are able to crack crack. Some of the encryption on one of his external hard drives are able to view his recent browsing history sri which does searches about topaz mountain which is not far from simpson springs which is where he took the boys camping supposedly the night susan vanished ashed a huge search was organized for the area around topaz complete with cadaver dogs and eventually searchers are led by the dogs to a spot on the west side of topaz opec mountain they find quote something that appears charred and in what looks like an attempt at a shallow grave unfortunately analysis results of the chart findings were inconclusive just due to the time and and they've been there and the elements exposure etc etc cetera shortly after police get a new tip from a man requesting a satellite image of a salvage yard where his car had supposedly been towed owed. The man wanted to quote determine whether his car had been destroyed. The collar dumped him dumb michael powell. Josh's brother are recognizing the name powell detective reached out to the utah team with this info unfortunately michael's whereabouts were unaccounted for during during the time frame that susan went missing however michael sold his car which was in relatively good shape with salvage yard for parts for a one hundred dollars and it depends on the oxygen special. They said that he sold the car for five hundred dollars but then the other special side one hundred regardless. It seemed like the car was not in a position to be sold based on its condition but <hes> it was sold around the time of his disappearance detectives found the car or to still be at the salvage yard and when they brought cadaver dogs in the doug zeroed in on michael powell's car immediately leading police to believe that the car had at one time time transported a decomposing body the car was then brought back to utah for further processing. The police theorize that mike helped josh josh relocates isn't remains after she'd been killed than sold off the car to the salvage yard thinking it would be destroyed so meanwhile chuck cox <hes> <hes> who is again <hes> susan's dad decided to look into what information you find out about <hes> the powell's divorce mike and joshua's parents and he found documentation showing early psychotic behavior on josh and really stevens parts stephen often encourage josh so again this is steven powell josh's dad their dad would encourage josh and his brother to kick their mother and act out. My dad never encouraged me to kick my mother just funds but apparently that was a thing in the powerhouse. There's even documentation that josh killed his sister's throughs gerbil as a child and susan powell's father obviously believes josh was true cycle in which i kinda can't really disagree with at this point on trial was held to determine who gained custody of the tea of josh's two children. Susan parents were fighting to keep the kids away from josh because they thought he was a danger to them. Before the trial more of his hard-driving krypton had been deciphered revealing that leykis his father josh also had a good old porn obsession he had hard drives that contained cartoon porn apparently currently very graphic kerr tune porn lots of it totally normal totally normal. The judge ruled that josh children were unsafe in josh's josh's custody and awarded temporary custody. The cox family susan's family. Josh was ordered to undergo a psycho sexual exam zan before it can be determined whether or not his kids could be returned to his custody. Which sorry why would we even be determining whether or not they should be returned to us custody but that's that's just me until then. Josh was awarded court super supervised visitations with this boy. Oh until said testing could be completed pleaded evaluate against the guy with the cartoon porn let his young children over to his house. He's got a porn addiction. His father is a pedophile file granted. His father is now in prison but does the apple fall that far from the tree and again this is i get it also santeuil but like no i also feel like wait a minute though caught the whole like camping at night thing would not be like a child endangerment situation or child museum or something documentation well. I mean you have testimony from josh friends that he basically was starving. His children didn't wanna give them gifts. Jeffs was unhappy in treated his wife poorly when he even found out that she was pregnant with them which is probably because he was a narcissist who demanded all of his wife's attention and became jealous of his unborn children because he knew he was losing a lot of attention and was not going to be the center honor of his wife's world anymore. I mean there are so many signs pointing to the fact that one. He didn't really care about his children. Obviously didn't care about his. His wife right only cared about himself. The fact that he was awarded any sort of supervision right with his children with all this evidence points to him being a <hes> a psychopath a puzzle you know having sex addiction action which like i on me whatever you can enjoy porn. That's fine but like if you have kids. I just feel like like you said the testimony monia other of neighbors saying we would have to give them money to buy food for food. I don't think they go money but we'll maybe or help. Feed these kids yeah because his own wife was budgeted at out of their salary to provide for their family like i reported though at the time 'cause she. I figured i'm a good mormon wife and i don't wanna report my husband but still i feel like that's enough. Nobody all this evidence was brought up. When he was trying to get court supervised visitation. I mean he was trying to get custody of kid right right and he was had his kids given to susan's parents thankfully but then he wanted visitation which which was granted although it was supervised visitation wish now brings us to the night of february fifty thousand and twelve josh set for his very first supervised visit with the boys the boys arrive with a social worker who is ordered to be with the boys. I said all times during the visitation upon arrival the boys run up the front stairs sugary their father because again. They're very young. They don't know what's going on. They don't they see their dad is their dad. Whatever understandable josh let him into the house when the social worker catches up to them josh grins at her her slant and slams the door in her face as wanna say the social worker is like a sixty sixty five year old woman so so once again if you're going to give someone who maybe killed their wife with porn addiction visitation rights with their children ran the person who is supervising visitation should be like a six foot three two hundred and seventy avenue pound cop with a gun not like us somewhat frail sixty five year old woman who if josh decides to do something stupid basically has no way to defend herself or the children carry on yeah did you do. I mean obviously obviously i don't live in utah but like this is in washington or oh. That's right. I'm sorry i forgot because he skipped town washington's. That's not judging where you live across the board. This is just make sense in which it's just right and just what i know of of organizations like this. Unfortunately they're usually underfunded did yeah so josh smiles at the social worker and slams the door interface so now basically his two kids are in the house. The social workers supposed to be with them. Mm is locked outside and josh and the kids are in. She calls nine one one and here personally. I would have thrown myself against the door and try and break it down down. I'm sorry like it's the law. You need to have a supervised visit. That's my own side now and i'll keep going the super the social worker does this call nine one one and expresses concern that the situation is essentially life threatening in her opinion as she heard josh say from the inside charlie which is one of the little guys yes. I have a surprise for you. Then she heard a scream from the younger son the nine one one operator continues to argue with the social social worker but by then the social worker smells gas and hangs up the phone to move car back which to be fair was a good call paul. Yes i agree shortly after the entire break in house explodes lays were the waterworks works started for me because i did not expect this lake die hard like style a big ass explosion. The social worker calls nine one one back again reiterating the urgency of the situation and confirming that a man with two children were definitely inside the house at the time of the explosion like she said the first time she called side note from me. Eventually authorities learned that both boys died from smoke inhalation after being knocked unconscious unconscious by an axe by their father who proceeded to pour gasoline over the entire house and josh said on camera gasoline as the the whole place went up in flames and side note from me. I hope that that gas can call it on fire and blew right up his ass. That's all. I have to say right there about that. The fire had clearly really been planted advanced as a bank security footage showed josh's days before with drying large sums of money from his accounts and selling his children's toys toys. I mean come on he'd also called his sister to explain what bills and business needed taking care of then left one last waste message which i think is like the most cowardly message i've ever heard in my life. You can hear it in the special. He left his voice. Message was family a suicide farewell for setting himself off n._s. Children ablaze fucking disgusting piece of shit pussy piece of shit exactly yeah. I'm sorry i grow a pair buddy police. At least there is that the boys were joshua's only witnesses to whatever happened to susan and since they were getting older and becoming more vocal there was a greater risk that they would tell the cox family or anyone really what actually happened the night susan disappeared essentially josh needed to destroy the remaining evidence of crime and that evidence was his children which ashman stephen in prison and not talking this leaves all eyes on mike josh's brother on february array eleventh two thousand thirteen. Mike jumped from the seventh floor of a parking garage to his death. Both both mike andros took whatever they knew about susan's disappearance to their graves likewise stephen never revealed any information about susan's whereabouts and died one the air after being released from prison prison. Excuse me <hes> theories remain that josh had meant to do harm to susan before her disappearance giovanna. Is that what you said her name earlier yeah giovanna owings who saw susan the day before her disappearance recalls that her last visit the powell family home when josh quote made breakfast for dinner serving pancakes after which after which susan suddenly fell ill and needed to lay down unfortunately gently no existing are clear evidence means to prove the stereo one way or another <hes> additionally there are sixteen small droplets of blood found near the a quote wet spot in the powells living room where the box vans reported which sharon mentioned earlier leading police to speculate whether susan was murdered it at home and then transported ultimately no clear answers remain chuck cox believes that clues remain in the remaining hard drives that josh powell left behind his hope is that police will continue to try and decrypt them to see what files remain and what clues they may provide with josh. His children has brother and father dead. These encrypted files may be the last chance at answers. The cox family may ever receive steve provide them with anything resembling closure. It really pisses me off that josh and his brother who are probably in my opinion after watching the i._d. Documentary and the oxygen documentary. I think both of uh-huh were responsible in the <hes> murder disappearance and cover up of susan powell. I mean officially susan powell is just a missing using person because nobody has been found and those charred remains they found they couldn't let us senator remains necessarily. It was just charged whatever i don't know if they've got any d._n._a. Evidence to prove that there is there is nothing to pull out body her body but the fact that they both took the easy way out and that neither of them will chicken ever fucking pay at least steven powell did have to serve some time <hes> for her her wolf for his crime of pedophilia voyeurism <hes> but also i do think he was probably involved a little bit in the cover up of of susan's murder so at least for sure well so <hes>. There's a fourteen minutes short special on after the channel special. What do they call it. Increases take pieces. Yes thank you there was josh there was mike and then jenny who is their sister. <hes> we find out that prior stephen powell's arrest jenny actually went to the police and offer to her a wire to try and get josh investors wife's murder which is a hell of a lot like your sister. Her goes to the cops and his lake there. Yeah you're right. There's something weird going on and i'm willing to help and we also learn that she moved away from her father in washington and and went to live with her mother in utah so she kind of a strange herself from that whole rest yeah they were. I mean josh his brother brother and they actually have that other sister. Who also we find later. More in the oxygen. Documentary was also she has a lot of issues. She jennifer was was in one and she was also very close with susan and very concerned more concerned than josh about where susan was so in this in in this missing piece of special. It's subtitled difficult to here but the special shows janis conversation with josh that was wired and it took place after he moved to washington washington to live with his father. Stephen jenny's heard saying that she just wants to know what happened and josh continuously denied having anything to do with his wife's disappearance. Though jenny says that based on the circumstances and i'm totally paraphrasing here <hes> it sure looks fishy is suddenly but she suddenly interrupted by stevens stevens appearance but we repeatedly hear stephen call johnny his daughter remind you a bitch and he tells her to face reality janney any responds with okay. I'll face reality josh. The boys camping in the middle of the night and susan was okay with that okay. This makes stephen get even angrier angrier again khanjani era bitch and then he pulls the classic which i don't mean a lap. I'm sorry he straight up told her to get off his porch. Which come on dude food also is covered. Is that stephen. How did we say his name. It's coacher coacher. See stephen coach's disappearance. He disappeared from nevada one one week after susan disappeared in december of two thousand thirteen last seen in henderson nevada his home is in utah while odd aww he did not really exhibit signs of free suicidal behavior he did drive across a few states prior to disappearance even stopping at his ex's parents parents house in utah saying he was going to visit family from sacramento california. He ultimately drove eleven hundred miles from his home. Home then returned and the day before he went missing. He went to work as usual but the last footage of him is on a home security camera in a nice neighborhood hood in henderson nevada three to four hundred miles from his home walking down a block and after abandoning his car the theory area that he may have ended up in the wrong neighborhood or was in the wrong place the wrong time and could have suffered from depression or some kind of psychotic break regardless. There is no indication nation that he the new season susan powell or that the two disappearances were remotely related lastly. The ramblings of steven powell being interrogated by the u._s. Marshall are shown on the special and wow the interview happened years before stevens true pedophile face this was shown but stephen claimed that susan loved him back and that she saw him as a quote relief bell right as is josh was often hard to get along with but then she told his parents her parents that stephen was a pedophile and that he'd been coming on her as said had to the marshall and i quote stephen said pedophile you know i don't know what the cutoff age is but it's not twenty year olds here so gross so that basically wraps up the story about the disappearance of susan powell so this was basically just the cliff notes version of susan powell disappearance but if you do want to know more about the story i actually just recently found out that there is an entire eighteen episode so at podcast called cold. I only just started listening to it. I'm only about five episodes in but it goes into much much much much more detail about the case it starts from back at the beginning of steven powell growing up and documents documents <hes> some of the stories of the way he was raised in his parents and how they treated him and his siblings <hes> which kind of explains why he became pretty fucked up and then fucked up his own kids. There's also actual audio of josh powell all recording some of his thoughts and stories on a audio diary and i'm not really sure sure why stephen paul and josh powell who are too disgusting despicable horrible people decided that they we're going to make video and audio recordings of their own horrible thoughts and feelings and if you wanna wanna know more about the story just listened to the cold podcast so far. I'm really really enjoying. It and i don't care what anyone says. I one hundred hundred percent believe that josh powell was guilty of murdering his wife and if you listen to some of this evidence that that basically he recorded in his journals you it becomes even more clear to me now that he was guilty and you also hear testimony money from previous girlfriends about some of the shit he did with them stalking them and abusing them mentally and it just it all comes together full circle so i highly recommend listening to the cold podcast. I will say that i did start it and granted. I was at work and so that i had other things was going on but i really knowing the story had to actually stop because i just was like oh god i can't i. I'm not i can't i can't even get into this mindset again because it does go into a lot more detail but also i'm sorry these guys are kind of like the worst criminals ever because his that was my biggest thing through all of this i know that like serial killers or whatever they liked to have trophies or whatnot and clearly steven powell had a bunch of <hes> we'll call him trophies i guess from his daughter-in-law but like record bad shit man what is wrong with you like i that's the part that blows my mind. They had they basically gave the evidence over to exactly like it was all right. There and i think that's the narcissistic parts of them thinking that they're above the law. They're too smart for the cops. They're never gonna get caught so i i kind of think they needed this release to get things off their chest so that they can actually live with themselves. Release valve valve. If you you want your but yeah if you <hes> you know they had to be able to look at themselves in the mirror everyday and they had to be able to live with themselves and i think maybe justifying some of the reasons why they did these. Things made it easier for them to do that. Because what other reason would you have have to make video diaries of these disgusting things that they would do in think in their beliefs and it was just so i yeah i really really recommend listening to this podcast and i just wanna get into <hes> so some things that i looked up after watching the documentary because i was kind of dumbfounded at the act that they never arrested him because i you really really followed the scott peterson case that was a thing and basically they were able to convict him on purely early circumstantial evidence even though they did eventually find the body there is already so many signs pointing to him being the one who was responsible for the disappearance of his wife and unborn son <hes> some of the things that i found in my research i believe most of this is from wikipedia and a few other sites which i want to give credit where credit's due did not make note of where exactly i found this inflammation there so much though seriously like are so much on the web. I found it on the web. This does not come from me anyways so although it is still true that the absence of a body makes a murder prosecution extremely difficult there is no longer a hard and fast rule that there must be a body for a murder order conviction in the u._s. In nineteen sixty the california case of people v scott the court found that circumstantial evidence is enough to be convicted of murder and l. Ewing scott was convicted of the murder of his wife evelyn who disappeared from her home may sixteenth nineteen fifty five so that basically set the precedent for future cases where nobody has been found circumstantial evidence in law is evidence not drawn drawn from direct observation of fact in issue if a witness testifies that he saw a defendant fire a bullet into a body of a person who then died this is a direct testimony of material facts in murder and the only question is whether the witness is telling the truth if however the witnesses able to testify savaii only that he or she heard the shot and that they arrived on the scene seconds later to see the accused standing over the corpse with a smoking looking pistol in their hand. The evidence is circumstantial. The accuse may have been shooting at the escaped killer or merely have been a bystander who picked up the weapon after the killer dropped it while it's smoking and pointed at the dead person hey you didn't see it. It may not have happened right. Things aren't always what they seem seem to be so good point. Circumstance evidence can be fingerprints d._n._a. Evidence blood analysis human behavior phone records and win sufficient enough to exclude every other reasonable hypothesis may prove the death of a missing person the existence of a homicide and the guilt of the accused according to wikipedia more than fifty people have been convicted of murder in the u._s. Without a body to be convicted of murder. All that is needed. It is some proof beyond reasonable doubt that the defendant committed murder that proof can be made of any evidence and does not not necessarily need to include the body the killer could have dissolved the body and acid and flush it down the toilet or kicked it out of a plane above mount everest. I wow that that that's actually quite a way to kill somebody when i don't understand though about this and i mean again we live in chicago. Oh i it. Maybe it's different in washington utah but like child protective services when they've gotten involved. How in the world did did he even did. Josh should specify even get supervised visits like i feel like everything that they had add circumstantial. Yes would be like this is an unhealthy place for kids to live like that's what blows my mind about this because they had people like friends friends testifying hide money for her so she can buy gifts and food for the kids like that's the part that like really blew my mind that they would even let him see the children and that honestly that comes down to i mean obviously all this evidence was gathered over a span of time yeah and but by the end when the judge made her final decision i mean that's something that judge is going to have to live with for the rest of her life. That's a good point. I i would not want to be that. Judge and i believe if it was up to me. I don't know what the laws are but i don't think i would have allowed that based on all the information that was available at this time and who knows if she had all the information and <hes> the cops gathered back in utah. You would like to think that she would have all all that ever as when she made her decision because you would think it's very important in this case just a little bit but who knows what actually was said. You only see bits. It's in pieces of the court hearing. I mean there's so many frustrating things about this case and unfortunately all all the people who know what happened. Susan powell are dead or presumed dead. I can't imagine that susan powell is still alive. At this point. Unfortunately certainly i have to agree with you and it was so sad watching all of those documentaries because her father was just heartbroken again because he's like i mean his reputation was attacked by those bags and then the powell's being dirk bags. I should specify except jennifer. I average jennifer she. She is amazing and i don't think i don't think she ever thought her brother was innocent sent and she fought to she fought on susan's side yeah so there you have it that is the the cliff notes version of the susan powell disappearance castrophe extravaganza it just keeps getting weirder and weirder yeah and who knows if they'll ever find a body or crack those encrypted hard drives they took from which that too route without with the technology. We have now i after seeing like the computers that josh built. I was like his password is is probably like guest like archer. You know like i i'm. I don't know why it can't be that hard to encrypt those. It's hard drives especially now but again this didn't happen like yesterday this happened you know a decade ago right and we don't have have they didn't have certain technology or know how and who knows if the cops are even still looking into it at this point because obviously there's a lot of other cases that they're probably looking into but now you know with <hes> these documentaries being out and also with this new podcast yeah the details of this case. Maybe they'll start looking into it again. Maybe someone will come forward with more information or more evidence <hes> even if they could just find in the body so that susan's family can finally put their daughter to rest that would be amazing yeah and yeah so i highly recommend watching the investigation discovery documentary and also be two-part oxygen special and if you have any <hes> <hes> thing that you want to <hes> discuss as far as the susan powell case or other missing person cases or if you'd like to hear us talk about other her true crime cases send us your recommendations and also as always go stories scary stories any other shit you wanna talk about you can email us at horse talk horror at gmail.com and follow us on instagram and facebook at horse talk horror and on twitter are you can find us at horace whore and as always face forget and kaby with us.
The Disappearance of Susan Powell
"Murder Religion domestic violence money pornography. Depravity manipulation. The Susan Powell case is the worst of the worst. How? Did it all go so wrong. If you ask those close to Susan. All she ever really wanted was to be a wife. And a mother! And two thousand nine Susan worked fulltime job wasn't amazing. Mom to her two little boys, Charlie Brayden, and she was very active in her church. It was her refuge in a stormy marriage. On the outside, they appear to be happy family, but on the inside well. Nobody could imagine the kind of hell. Susan was going through being controlled and manipulated and degraded by an emotionally abusive husband Josh. Susan one out threaten divorce, but Josh made it crystal clear that if she tried to leave him, there would be consequences. So. Susan made a video documenting the family's possession. In case something happened to her. She hid that video and a secret will in a safe deposit box that she made sure Josh didn't know about. In the will. She expressed her fears the worry over the multi-million dollar life insurance policy in her name. Threatening arguments with Josh. Susan wrote in this last will and testament quote. If I die. It may not be an accident even if it looks like one. Take care of my boys. Just sixteen months later Susan disappeared. The only thing left were the breadcrumbs she left behind. Tragic that just three years later. Those breadcrumbs warrant enough to save her boys from their father. Be. android onto emergency life threatening situations earth. Velvety. Could be like that. Corn on Wang Dan he? Goes back. This is really. Curry powder live and now over ten years later. The Cox family is still hoping. For some kind of justice. Seven year old. And these fire. It's the worst. I'm Carolina Soriano with Kim Shepard and this is the scene of the crime. and. What A for Riddick? Crime! It is and not just one but a series of crimes. It started way back before Josh was even born. This case goes back. Generations and I'm sure as well here in your story, Carolyn. Josh Powell didn't come out of some immaculate home. There is a lot of family history there of criminal activity of depraved behavior, and it's really sad, because not that I feel sorry for Josh at all. Believe me, but it's almost like. Where did it start? You have to wonder. Did it start with Josh's father or Josh? His father's father or his father's? You know. How far back how many generations could this have gone? It just makes you wonder so okay. Sorry, I'm so glad that you want to start at the beginning because you know what I basically sunk my teeth into this story and I want to start at the beginning the whirlwind romance of Susan Cox. Cox and Josh Powell began at a dinner party. A Church of Jesus Christ of latter, Day Saints Mixer. If you well, and it was hosted by then twenty four year old Josh Powell at his apartment in Tacoma, Washington it was the year two thousand, a new millennium, and Love was in the air that night, nineteen year, old Susan Cox fell head over heels for Josh Ironic. That Josh was having an lds get together considering what would come later that he would like his father totally reject his faith, but Kim file that away it won't be the first irony, nor will it be the last in this tale of? It's pure evil basically. But back, then Susan was walking on air. I mean you know what that's like. When you're in a new relationship, you're so excited every moment that she didn't spend beauty school or at her part time retail jobs. She spent Joshua's place and in less than two months after Josh had that party, he and Susan were engaged. Susan's family wasn't too happy about the relationship. They encouraged her to wait, but Susan had made up her mind. She loved Josh and wanted to spend the rest of her life with him, and on the surface, the Cox and Powell families appeared to have a lot in common both were big families, lots of kids, and they were both Mormon families, but what Susan didn't know, was that Josh had a dark side, and so did his family Stephen Erica, those are Joshua's parents were members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter, Day saints or lds when they got married. But during their marriage, Steve soured on the idea of religion, and he began to openly mock teric for her beliefs in front of the children. This caused not only friction in their growing family. It was just downright toxic as battles of a religion how to raise. The children were waged in the Powell home. Now the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day saints was something Sacred Erica, but it wasn't just the religion. Steve flat out, refused to have boundaries with their five kids, and he was emotionally abusive terracotta and there was the pornography. According to tariffs fight divorce filings in one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, two Steve, had an obsessive interest in pornography which she alleged he shared with their three sons, wasn't there some discussion that he had a belief that basically people are animals, and so we should be able to you know have relations at any time with any one in an animalistic way I mean. He really didn't see boundaries. When it comes to came to age. Let's say or species from what I understand. He kind of thought you could do whatever you wanted. And that like the conflict that happened with his wife. Erica, who wanted to just have this? Happy family and being their religion with their church, and he just didn't want any of that. and teaching your kids to openly mock their mother, I mean it's just like not only. Is it sad for Terek? But it's really it's really sad for the kids know. I'm absolutely it. It's it's just like a lot of domestic abuse, and this seems like what this case it's. It's not physical. In this case, it's mental. It's the mental the belittling and And so that's an important note to keep in mind as you talked about Kim with the history of this case in when did it begin so talking about Steve's actions in his court filings, he claimed that terrassa with into herbs and natural healing and mixed news mysticism with mormonism and practice quote, witchcraft and devil worship, so it's a real twisting of you I'm sure she was just into like herbs right and then he liked. Turns it into this whole like weird weird thing. Yeah, like she just takes Saint, John's wart or something. Her mood and all of a sudden. She's a witch. Yes, she's like this lady exactly so so basically in those same court documents, they also revealed that Josh was an extremely troubled teen. He allegedly killed his sister's gerbils threatened his mother with a butcher knife when she asked him to be more respectful and that Josh was following his father's footsteps when it came to contempt for women and authority. Now it is, we should note here that that that as a team, Josh also attempted to commit suicide well, I think clearly shows that he knew that there was something wrong with his home life and was trying to escape it. Yeah, exactly. But none of this was on display during Susan. Joshua's courtship and you didn't tell her before they got engaged. Guess what? I'm sure he I. Don't know all the research that I did. I don't know how much of his history that he shared with Susan. I believe that you know he would want to keep that under wraps. Shared a lot of with her at some point, because that he had written letters to his high school, girlfriend or college girlfriend before he met. Susan must've high school girlfriend. Where he did talk about his feelings and his home life and his family relationships, so he he did disclose some of this to other females, so one could assume that he would share it with his wife well, it wasn't enough to stop her from getting married to him and in two thousand, and maybe it was maybe it was later, too. Yeah, it wasn't a after they got married. Because I think at that time he was really trying to you know he was hosting these LDS parties he was. You know he hadn't rejected the church yet. He was very much like wanted to get on. The straight narrow wanted to to have a good relationship, and so Susan and Josh tied the Knot in an LDS church in two thousand and one. But from the beginning of their marriage John Shot issues holding down a job despite having a bachelor's degree in business from U. DUB and being a computer whiz, something always came up which put a strain on their finances and their relationship throughout their marriage, and here's another irony Josh was so controlling over Susan's money, nitpicking everything she spent money on while at the same time, he was a complete. Spend thrift, only he would. Buy Things for himself. In fact, it was the loss of a job that prompted Susan and Josh to temporarily move in with Josh's Dad Steve when they were newly married now most people like I lived with. My mother-in-law law and it was like okay. This is great, you know we get to live. Rent Free, and we can save money and get out of debt but young Susan. Had No idea what was in store for her? At the Powell residents in Puyallup under such close quarters, it didn't take long for Steve Again Josh's Dad to become infatuated with his new daughter in law, and that evacuation quickly morphed into something beyond obsession Steve Literally followed Susan around the House with a camcorder. was shameless, not being shy about recording every move and zooming in on her private parts. Years later I am looking at the look on your face and I know it just goes I. How does she? How do you stay there? I mean I know that you're married and I know that you want it to work out, but that would have been enough I would have been out and here's the thing. She's still so young I. mean you know you look at what you're like now as an adult woman and what you were like when you were nineteen or twenty years old? and. It's like I'm sure she was like what is happening here. This goes against. Everything that I know about right I mean it would go against. I would think but I. don't know I. Mean What especially with somebody who is so invalid in their church, and in those teachings I mean a high this obviously goes against all kinds of religious teachings to be lusting after someone else's wife to be lusting after your son's wife, and at this point I mean had stephen. Exited the church at this point, he already had oh. Yes, Stephen had like gone off the rails Liceu, that must have been really uncomfortable for Susan if she is a devout member of the church to be under someone's roof. WHO has so blatantly disregarded all of the teachings? Yeah, I think that years later we would find out just how twisted Steve's obsession with Susan would become. After police released a copy of his journal and Videos and photos of Susan, which included evidence that he uses small mirror to spy on her while she used the bathroom, he stole her underwear and pantyhose to masturbate with which he filmed himself and collected her use, feminine products, hair and Clippings what wait WHOA rewind. Feminine Products. That is disgusting I'm sorry. I! Don't care how you feel about somebody. Somebody old shirt that they wore because it smells like them is a whole other level than taken a dirty tampon. Adas Nasty. Thank goodness that she she didn't know this at the time I mean. She felt his lake. Spying is but I. think that had sh- and she could feel it, and she knew it, but I mean this takes it to such a level that is, you can't even wrap your your hands around that. You know you really can't. So he also read her adult journals and even posted these crazy love songs online about Susan under a different name, but the obsession came to a hat in two thousand and three, when Steve was so overwrought with his desire for Susan that. He actually told her his feelings. Hoping she would confirm what in his mind. He already believed that she was just as much in love with him as he is with her and this confession like crazily not so crazy because he always had this camcorder with him, was inadvertently captured the audio of it was captured on his recorder, and from that audio recording, two things come through crystal clear that Susan was obviously stunned and upset by his feelings for her. And firmly explained that she loved her husband, and he was her father-in-law nothing else. Now what's messed up completely? Is that Susan told the couple eventually move to West Valley City Utah which is a suburb of salt. Lake City in two thousand four. They said that the move was for job. Opportunities but Susan was just wanted to get away from Steve and this is a part that's just. I mean out of so many heartbreaking parts in the story, but you know, imagine you know your. Your father-in-law's a predator. You tell your husband. And she felt betrayed by Josh because only do not stick up for her to his father, but he wouldn't cut ties with his dad. In fact, he loud his dad to convince him that Susan had misrepresented his advances. Josh would have these long conversations over the phone with his dad. Even though it upset, Susan and Susan believed that Steve was doing it on purpose to break them up, so he could have her for himself now, but Josh was okay with them. Moving to Salt Lake City area to get away from his dad. At least there was maybe like a little bit of give on his side of things like I could see where Susan might think. There was a flicker of hope that their marriage could be saved. Their relationship could be saved if they got away from the Dad, which they did so even though she was still frustrated that they had a relationship I could see where she wouldn't necessarily say that's an I'm leaving because at least Josh took that step of moving away from the area. Yeah, that is true. The sad part is is that I think that you when something like this happens I, mean she is. It's almost like being victimized twice right like I I. I the father in law does this and then the husband. Basically, yes, he takes action, but at the end of the day he's he. He goes back on it, and he like allows his dad to manipulate him into acting like, oh. This was just all in her head. You know she. She deserved it. She wanted I. Don't know what those conversations were, but but it's the same kind of story that we hear when it comes to a woman being or girl being ogled by somebody, and it's quote. Unquote her fault, right? It's just a dysfunctional triangle and Susan documented in her journals. There was also another dysfunction that was being realize that Josh began repeating. A pattern from his own parents marriage when he first met Susan, remember he was hosting those LDS parties, and he was really active in the church, and now like his father, and his marriage, before he was becoming disillusioned with his faith, and began rejecting L. D. S. now on the bright side. Susan got her wish to be a wife and mother Charlie was born in two thousand, five and Brandon in two thousand seven, and even though Susan Urine to have more children to be a stay at home, mom, she continued to work and do really well at her job at Wells Fargo. And she was actually the main breadwinner and I say that actually because Josh. Even still control their every move. How much she spent and belittle her when he felt that she spent too much money on food and essentials. Josh even got rid of their second car because he said it costs too much, and she had to ride her bike back and forth. I mean it's one thing to want to ride your bike on your own, because you want to be healthy, but it's another thing to have your husband. Just sell your car from right underneath you and you have no choice in the matter again. This case is about the emotional abuse I mean to my knowledge I. Don't think he was physically abusive. I find it hard to believe well. Not Hard to believe, but difficult to understand women who would allow her husband to sell her car out from under her. I I couldn't imagine that happening in my household if it even got discussed. I just I can't even imagine that it just sounds. So. Nineteen fifties. I think that their relationship was a real slow roll. You know how sometimes like stuff happens in your life, and like one thing happens, and then another thing, and then you're your tolerance to be able to. Super, manipulative. I don't know I mean I. Find It. I just find it sad because I, think he wore her down, you know. Yeah. Have you ever been worn down? If will yeah, I mean. There are definitely times where it's like. Pick my battles. The the car is like a huge thing and I totally get you saying that, but I mean it's just. It feels like as I've been following the story, it's like. She was worn down and her idea of what she wanted. You know the family the children the church I mean they're so. He just wore her down and and it's sad, because for whatever reason there was always enough meat on the bone for Josh to buy the things that he wanted like computers and expensive tools for himself documents later released by UTAH. Police show that Susan was so unhappy in their marriage that Josh was very controlling as I said emotionally abusive, accusing her of being a religious fanatic, which is sounding exactly like his dad would. She asked for control of our own money, so she could just give tithing to the church. He wouldn't even let her give tithing to the church with her own money. And things have gotten so bad in two thousand eight that Susan went and spoke to a divorce attorney. The attorney advised Susan to take a video documenting the couple's belongings. ME. July twenty, ninth, two, thousand eight. Basis making sure that if something happens to me or my family are all list. Our assets are documented. Hope everything works out moral happy. Live happily ever after such as possible so a month before Susan made that Video July two thousand eight sheet also Kim, she wrote a secret will that she kept in a safe deposit box with directions that Josh not be allowed to see it. In. This letter Susan says quote I wanted documented that there is extreme turmoil in our marriage. She added if I die. It may not be an accident even if it looks like one. Susan's letter documented that she had given Josh an ultimatum to start treating her better, or she would file for divorce, and according to Susan he responded with threats. Quote this is this is Josh there will be no lawyers, only a mediator and I will ruin you. He added quote US Susan would be destroyed, and your life would be over, and the boys will not grow up with a mom and dad and quote. She says in her letter if anything happened to her, she wanted her Dad Chuck Cox to have control over her children. So back to your car. You know how you can't even imagine that I mean I. Think most of can't, but it's like it shows that it's like. She knew that this was not right and she was scared. You know she cared, but it's interesting. Though in that video that in a way she still sounded hopeful that there was somehow going to be a way to save the marriage well, according to the research that I did she kept trying like friends would say get you know. Get away from him. You know and she I think she just couldn't let go of that idea of this family marriage. You know her kids not. Being. You know she didn't want to get a divorce I. think that it just was that traditional life was so important to her that she kept wanting to give him more chances, but Susan's fear for herself and her children. that she documented, but ultimately did little to ensure either her safety or her children's safety, and just over fifteen months later on December six, two, thousand nine. Susan's worst fear would come to pass now. That was a Sunday and Susan and Charlie and Braden went to Church Services Josh stayed at home, and later that day one of Susan's friends and neighbor came over to help her untangle some snarled yarn. And, the neighbor observed John Mickey pancakes for the family which was strange, because you know generally known that Josh refused to cook and according to interviews with Chuck, Cox at Susan's Dad after the disappearance. He believes that Josh put muscle relaxants in the pancakes that he fed to Susan. There's no. Evidence to support that, but that's what he believes. The neighbor said that she left the Powell house at around five o'clock that evening after Susan's suddenly got up and went to lay down because she didn't feel well. And this neighbor would be the last person to see Susan alive the next morning when Susan didn't drop the boys off at daycare. The teacher was immediately worried, so she called Josh's family. Josh's mom and sister went to Susan Josh's home. They noticed there weren't any tire tracks in the snow, and the House looked dessert. Because remember this is Utah. And they couldn't reach Susan Josh on their cell phones, and they had sean about work, either so it didn't take long for them to call nine one one that morning. Because it was just Susan was like. She was always on time. She was very organized. She was very diligent and the daycare lady just knew right away that something just wasn't right, and so police arrived at the Powell home. And the family there the remember the Joshes mom and his sister were worried that the family were were victims of carbon monoxide poisoning, so they got permission from Joshua Stern mom to smash a window and enter the house. The family wasn't there, but police noticed something strange. There was a wet spot on the couch with two box fans blowing at that spot. Susan's purse, her wallet and I D at The house, and it was radio silence from Josh and Susan for the rest of that day, Fam- family was frantic, but around five o'clock. That evening the family was relieved when Josh finally answered his phone and said he was on his way back from a camping trip with the boys where Susan. They asked. Josh claims she should be at work and he didn't know where she was, but she wasn't at work. So Josh was asked to go to the police station. He brought his kids Charlie brain with him during this interview. I mean Q. Imagine that like you get home. It's like getting to be dinnertime and you bring your kids. These little tiny kids like two and four to the police station. You know their MOM's not there. So then Josh unpack this Bizarre Story to detectives that he left his sweep, his sleeping wife at home in the dead of night to take his little boys, four year, old Charlie and two year old Brayden camping in the Utah Desert during snowstorm in sub freezing temperatures, and he had no idea where his wife was. One Detectives Press John About why he didn't tell employer or the daycare provider that he wouldn't be at work and they wouldn't be at school Josh, said that he thought it was Sunday, and not Monday, so he oh, by early. Days messed up. I'm sorry when you have a wife. Who is that into the church? You know when Sunday is. He told me he didn't know. Win Sunday exactly on top of that. Did he have camping gear in his car? Like? was there evidence to support his story at all I think he a definitely think. He had camping gear and his car I think he also had like this huge blow torch. Thing in there, too. Because you know they were making s'mores. Police became even more suspicious as the following days unfolded Josh Josh came home from that camping trip. Police say. That he had Susan Cell. In the minivan with him, the SIM card had been removed, and Josh couldn't explain why he had her phone or why. He had left messages on her voicemail when he had the phone with him right? Detectives also tried to retrace his to retraced Josh's story of camping, but from the beginning, they couldn't find any evidence to support this campsite that Josh had described. And then during search warrants the house, they found a small amount of blood on the floor by the recently claimed Sofa and carpet in their house. And Josh definitely had a motive. A Life Insurance policy worth over a million dollars. Remember in her note. She was scared I. Mean. How scary is that? You had this huge life insurance policy and you're scared that your husband is GonNa, do something to you, so you write, the secret will is just. Unbelievable, and then there was the strange way Josh was acting during his conversations with police, he was more concerned about photographs. They had taken of his hands. You know after when he came into the police department as opposed to concern about his wife's disappearance. Okay. If you're under US On so understood that you're not under arrest passing. On the, Problem, we have estimating as what. Missing Person. By being your wife. And initially this all turned out to be basically missing people entire family. On. That's why we were notified. In home. unsure. Make sure that if there was anybody in there that they were okay. Okay. report. which was obviously concern? Started cutaway house. Keys. To why they? Got, break the window when he started, she had a key. On. Mount Rushmore attention obviously. Okay So. The concern here is obviously you. You mentioned that we talked and by the way is. We spoke yesterday. General stuff from you. All Right! What do what you want us to do? You want us to talk to you. Do not want us to talk to anybody. Just Leo bone overseas shows up. Is what you wants to know. I mean just trying to much. You know what I'm sayin'. Person Tour. Colson Messenger who. Exactly! So. You're telling me that you do not want to commit your talk to meet. Answer my questions. We can try to figure out where potentially she could be. told me that I should have an attorney because you don't know what. was going on. You. said that I'm you know? Pretty much over my head. Is Your. Wife is missing. Basically the detective is like. Why are you not being helpful you as called us because of a missing persons? Called US word is trying to get to the bottom of this. Why why are you not helping us? Don't we want us to find your wife and he was like? Will just as being a total Weirdo and there was something else that raised eyebrows. The day after Susan went missing. Josh went in for another interview. He was like late going in, so josh walked out of the police station after that interview, he didn't wait for the mini van that they were still processing the evidence. They were collecting evidence from it. Instead he called the taxi that picked him up at the police station and drove him to the Salt Lake City Airport Josh rented a car for two days during that time, he racked up over eight hundred miles on the car. Now had no idea where he went or what he was doing, and there were other red flags. Josh withdrew Charlie and Brayden from daycare cash in Susan's. Susan's retirement accounts and canceled her regularly scheduled chiropractic sessions, and then also during interviews of close friends and workers police say that one person that they interviewed alleged that Josh had told them if he wanted to get rid of a body, he would hide it in an abandoned mine shaft that the UTAH. Desert was full of them and they are. The Utah Desert is full of them. Yeah also when they interviewed four year old Charlotte about who went camping. Charlie said his mom went with them, but added that his mom didn't come back with them. It's heartbreaking. I know. Next week and part two of the disappearance of Susan Powell will continue to peel back the layers of Susan's disappearance. How Josh packed up? Charlie and Brayden go live with his dad. A home investigators would refer to later as a house of horrors. So, many warning signs went unheeded. Only the devil himself could have foreseen how Susan's precious little angels would suffer. At the hands of their own father. I'm Carolina Soriano with Kim Shepard and this is the scene of the crime.
Ep. 17 Cold Case
"This podcast discusses domestic violence criminal behavior. Murder and adult themes while not explicit. Listener discretion is advised. Journey is Steve Powell twelve thirty five AM, December eight two thousand nine fourteen hours following the first report of Susan Powell's disappearance in feeling sick. Because it is possible that Susan is dead Monday morning, Jenny Kulthum Josh's and Susan's house to tell us that the daycare lady had called her when they did not show up with the kids the police came to their house, and this information made us extremely fearful that they might be inside this fixated from carbon monoxide or dead from some other cause it was a relief. When the police reported that they were not in the house and their van was not in the garage. However, the day war on slowly with no word and with all of us wondering if they were abducted or if they went on an outing and were killed or trapped in a car accident in the evening, I went to the gym. And while they are received. A call that Josh had shown up with the boys. But not with Susan when I was finally able to speak to him at about eight thirty. He said he saw her early Monday morning at just after midnight. He was leading late for an outing with the boys in the various conversations I had with him Monday evening between that time and nearly midnight. He said that he had bought a generator heater of some kind. So he could go on winter outings when he told Susan who he said was in bed asleep that they were leaving. He says she said whatever he says he thought yesterday was Sunday, hence, he did not call work, and when he realized his error he was out of cell phone range that does not make sense to me since when I spoke to him Sunday at midday. He said Susan and the boys had gone to a state conference that morning. He also mentioned that she was tired and took a nap that eating maybe she was already gone, and he. He told the boys. She was just napping. None of us were able to reach him on his cell phone all day, and he attributes that to being in the back country. Susan cell phone was with him. He says he was using it to look up a number and forgetful, put it in his pocket and forgot to take it out. So it was with him all day until he showed up at around six pm. The story was so implausible and our conversation with Josh so unconvincing that I fear the worst. I think Susan is dead. Josh spent the twenty hour look Hunan disposing of her body far away. In the last two weeks. Josh bought an oxyacetylene welder and a rug doctor carpet cleaner. I had no clue why he might wanna welder. But now, I wonder that was required. The process of mutilating were disintegrating her body. Maybe he really did not do anything to her and she will show up alive. Maybe that is why he's not concerned. This is cold episodes seventeen cold case, I'm Dave collie right back after this. Two days after Josh Powell murdered his sons, Charlie and Brayden his aunt and uncle MAURICE and Patty Leach issued a written statement it said Josh represented himself with great restraint during the child custody proceedings. It said the murder suicide was a result of questionable practices from government agencies religious bias internet. Kangaroo courts and the news media. It said all the above had circumvented the Powell families due process rights, and that was a national tragedy. Patty, Leach was Steve Powell sister. If there's anybody alive that has knowledge of what happened is Susan Powell her family believes, it's Stephen pal and he made perhaps the best remaining lead in the investigation. Despite the fact, he's not talking not with police anyway while in prison Steve exchanged letters with his niece. Nikki Cardenas at the end of July two thousand twelve NICKY sent him a copy of a CNN article about James Holmes, the Aurora Colorado movie theater mass shooter, I mentioned a couple episodes back that west valley police detective Darrel Dane had adopted the phony persona of shameless from the department of defense during a meeting with Steve around that same time. It turns out shameless planted a seed after Michael committed suicide in February of two thousand thirteen Steve became convinced. This shadowy figure shameless was responsible for both the Aurora shooting. And Michael suicide he supposed the army using shameless had delivered psychotropic drugs to both homes, and Michael or maybe it was a chemical weapon. Procured from the army's desert. Chemical depot in of course, Utah. Steve also wondered if shameless hit engineered the December two thousand twelve mass shooting at sandy hook elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut, they were all connected in Steve's mind part of a single sprawling conspiracy. Just days before Michael Powell suicide Washington state, Senator Pam Roach introduced Senate Bill fifty one sixty two way do have judge that did have material from west valley police and chose to ignore it. We have a judge who did order a cycle sexual valuation chose to make decisions without the results of that. Order SP fifty one sixty two was not a very catchy name supporters called it, Charlie. And Britain's law Steve Powell called it. The Cox Roach Bill we had a fast track for reunification DS HSS, though, they recommend to the judge that Josh Powell not have the kids were nonetheless on a fast-track reunification. That's what two days a week for two hours. A visit is Chuck and Judy Cox travelled to Olympia to speak in support of the Bill this law. A surviving spouse is essentially able to achieve custody by murder. Or as in this case, causing the disappearance of charleen? Brayton's mother, then refusing to cooperate with police put simply the Bill was meant to prohibit parents suspected of murder from having access to their kids until the murder case was resolved. It would have cemented in lawn. Many of the suggestions made by the DS HFS review board after Josh killed Charlie and Brayden DS HS and others like west valley. Police Pierce county. Police did not take seriously and sell because of that we felt this was a big problem. And why it was in our opinion treated lightly that the boys would be okay, Rick Bartholomew from the Washington state bar association said the Bill was problematic, for example, some investigations will take years, and ultimately a person can be exonerated, or at least the investigation doesn't doesn't prove anything the Bill underwent some changes. To address those concerns and on March twelfth two thousand thirteen the Washington state Senate voted forty eight to one in favor sending the Bill to the house where it stalled indefinitely. Charlie and Brandon's law never actually became law. That is at least not in Washington. I substitute Senate Bill one seventy Seventy-three having received seventy two. Yes. Votes zero no votes fest. The house will be signed by the speaker and return to the Senate for the signature of the president the following year in two thousand fourteen the Utah legislature passed a similar Bill. The Bill has been changed dramatically in order to thread the needle between protecting parental rights. And also protecting the rights of children in these very unusual and unique situations and infrequent situations. S one Seventy-three changed Utah law empowering the courts and child welfare workers to keep minor children away from a parent suspected of murder. Journal of Steve Powell five thirty five AM, December eight t thousand nine. Nineteen hours following the first report of Susan Powell's disappearance Sunday night at snowed all night. So Josh headed out after midnight to camp with the boys. It was snowing like gangbusters by the time. He got out of ways. So according to his story, he decided it was too late to return. And so he kept going. Why the whole thing sounds so wrong? Even if it had nothing to do with disposing of Susan's body. Why would anybody do that? And Furthermore, why would anybody believed that someone would go out in that weather just for an out? Michael Andolina are very supportive of Josh and advised him to tighten up his story as it sounds weak and unconvincing Josh responded that the police may already tapped his phone, which was the same as saying be careful what you say Michael commented that he blamed his mother for this. He said, she is the reason I will probably never get married. So I guess Michael like me has learned to distrust, the marriage principle, John seems to be a misogynist and Josh has suffered through a mutually hateful marriage relationship since April two thousand and one Josh's and Susan's mutual disdain was evident from nearly the beginning of their relationship. I am so tired, but can't seem to sleep. I e mailed in my request for sick leave a few minutes ago. West valley city police were fast approaching the end of the road in early two thousand thirteen leads in the search for Susan were dwindling yet public focus on the case remained high. Yes, there's a lot of people in the country in the world at wanted answers from the media all the way down to the Cox family because you know, believe it or not they didn't know a whole lot more than anybody else as lead detective else Maxwell served as keeper of the case files. He'd organized reports warrant affidavits interview transcripts and everything else for more than three years over the course investigation, I had managed the digital case files. So you know, I kind of prepared it as as we were moving through. So that when we went into a trial all done in. I could just handed over to the attorneys with no chance of a criminal prosecution. West valley faced a question what to do with? All those documents. I don't think the department could just stand back and go, no. They're going to have to release smooth formation. And there's a lot of formation the city had received a large number of requests for copies of case files under grandma Utah's open records law decided to sit down and go through that entire file and redacted. And and then came down to okay, do we just release it all or lead to grammar requests come in? And the decision was made to just make a public release of it with the job of redacting all those documents blacking out sensitive information, like medical or financial data names of potential witnesses police operational plans took a lot of time we spent days in a big conference room. And there was gosh. Eight or ten of us, and they weren't just -tective. There's a lot of attorneys in there and. It was basically myself maybe a couple of detectives arrest was legal going through redacting all of that information. Daunting task to say as least I mean, there's thousands and thousands of documents and reports and. Yeah. Before they could give any of those documents out. Police also had to ask a judge to rescind the secrecy order that had surrounded the case since its inception deliveries happened is because the case essentially came to an end like there's there's nobody that can be held accountable. This case is never going to go into the Justice system. So now, we've reached a point that we can't there's no reason to retain that information and keep it close. Before taking that step west valley. Police wanted to finish one more search this time in Scotts mills Oregon police say they remained committed to the case and finding closure for Susan's family. We can't forget the Cox shown the effect this had on them. Detectives had come across information about a piece of property in Scotts, mills were Josh's aunt, and uncle Patty and MAURICE Leach had previously lived they'd rented a house on one hundred seventy six heavily wooded acres in the rural area. Northeast of Salem information that we'd received as that. It was possible that. Because Josh traveled several hundred miles, and if you was to relocate this body, it is probable that. He could have. Made it to this area and disposed of her buried her body there, the mileage meant Josh could not have made it to Scotts mills in the rental car loan in order for this theory to work he'd have needed an assist from Michael or Steve there was a little bit of time like day baby that we can really count for Steve not a whole day, but maybe twelve hours or six hours or something like that. And it kind of fell in line with this whole piece of properties related to Steve's family. Josh and Susan had also visited the property wants together after Susan disappeared. And Josh moved to Washington MAURICE and Patti hit invited Josh to come visit again in order to get away from the media. But Josh never took them up on the offer. West valley police obtained a federal search warrant they briefed the Marion county sheriff's office and on may fourteenth two thousand thirteen arrived in Scotts mills with a team of cadaver dogs a lot of digging in a lot of searching of this ground. The dogs indicated the possible presence of decomposition at one location. Police spent an entire day, they're raking and probing the ground running the dogs over and over it. They didn't find anything. Nobody no evidence today. Police conceited they're coming to the end of their list of leads and even acknowledged the possibility the Susan Powell case could even become a cold case. Obviously, Susan still missing. So there are pieces that we don't have there's information. We don't have police did not publicly reveal at the time that while those dogs were searching in Scotts mills a detective and FBI agent were in nearby Silverton, grilling Josh's, Oncle MAURICE Leach. Murray had agreed to take a lie detector test, an FBI polygraph or came down from Portland. During the interview police records, say MAURICE told the agent he believed charleen. Brayden were still alive. Stephen told MAURICE pictures, the FBI had showed him following the fire were unrecognisable and possibly staged. Detective Alvin Davis told MAURICE that was not the case he had personally seen the bodies. Over the course of their hours long conversation. Marris's perspective changed. Police records say he expressed anger at Josh. And Michael saying they had lied to him. He wanted to have words with Steve because Stephen told him the police had made up the stuff about finding pictures of young naked neighbor girls in his house. I have made several attempts to contact MAURICE. But he's never responded to my messages. Cops arrived here on Tuesday they combed acre after acre. But ultimately called the search win cadaver dogs didn't turn up leads. We have not rested. We have not had a break we have been diligent and meticulously investigating this entire case west valley police returned home from Oregon on may sixteenth two thousand thirteen empty-handed. You know, this point lot of just tired. You know, it's been a long investigation. And when I say tired like we're not physically tired, mentally like, you'll only. I mean, I don't know how many times and individual can come across a potential breaking lead in a case and shutdowns like, Nope. The Senate needs to go find something else. And so I think we were all hopeful, I was hopeful. But again at the end of the day, just tons of resources and no results. But you know, we're able to say that she wasn't there. Detectives were not alone in feeling that sense of exhaustion. Chuck Cox was not ready to stop searching. He wondered if Susan's body might have ended up much closer to home, Steve Powell's home earlier this year, a Washington judge awarded Powell's victims, two young girls. One point eight million dollars Powell is now claiming he's just recently learned about the damages his ino- position to pay up, but Steve did have assets, including the south hill house from which he'd once filmed those underage neighbor girl's family of the two little girl that Steven Powell was convicted of photographing now own that house. They were warded that property in a court ordered settlement choke working with his attorney and a private investigator. Brought cadaver dogs to the house. They probed the ARD on the suspicion the Josh or Steve might have buried Susan. They're just as with the police in Oregon. Chuck Cox did not find anything. Journal of Steve Powell six thirty AM December eight two thousand nine twenty hours following the first report of Susan Powell's disappearance. Where is Susan if she were alive? Someone would have heard from her this morning, it will begin sinking into her co workers that she is not coming back will Josh drop. The boys off at the daycare. When he goes to his nine o'clock appointment with the police will Josh still be walking free after the nine o'clock appointment or will they lock him up through the night. I tried to think of things Josh said last night, the might suggest that he truly does not have a clue or Susan is. Maybe his story came out sounding cockeyed because he was so tired Michael suggested to Alina and me that if he has killed Susan. It was probably not premeditated since the story is so poorly planned if the worst happened that is he killed her. Did he bury her body would ever be found? Frequently the police breakdown perpetrators during interrogation, and they end up leading them to where the body is buried, although her parents mean nothing to me, I feel deeply for them. Whatever the outcome. I cannot imagine. There will be a good outcome. Four days after the end of the search in Scotts mills Oregon, west valley city leaders called a press conference after three plus long years of investigation into the disappearance of Susan Powell. We are nounce in the end of the active phase of the search for Susan the case had gone cold today. Susan is still missing we do not know where she is. Or what happened to her that same day, the city attorney and detective Darrel Dane, aka shameless went to court and asked a judge to lift the secrecy order, I had to sit down myself, and you know, my supervisor's we had a sit down with the Cox, family and share everything with them first. And so we met with them. And and we shared with them everything that we could share with them. And I believe we gave their attorney copy of. That release on a USB drive next reporters received their copies of the redacted case file on thirty two gigabyte flash drives tens of thousands of pages. And as you go through those it'll be to Monday morning quarterback perhaps. But I think at the end the day you'll see a police force that was completely dedicated from the beginning completely professional from the beginning. And it everything they could do to to find Susan and bring her home, technically, the Powell case remained open. There were still loose ends, including the ongoing efforts to crack the encryption on one of Josh's hard drives. So that version of the case file released to the media was a snapshot in time. Going forward Ellis continued to care for the case file from that point. I ended up leaving the midget crimes unit and went to managing the six hundred points program, and then I developed a college internship program. And so I ran both of those and took care of the Powell case. And every once in a while, I would handle some other investigative cases as it came along. But yeah, I did that from thirteen up until December fifteen when I retired. I had my twenty years and. Done was out. Public. Release of the redacted case file was a huge win for Susan's family. They seized on the documents within days they began handing out flyers along. I eighty four from Pendleton Oregon to Tremont in Utah. The search for missing Utah. Mom, Susan Powell has led Chuck Cox to a small tree Munton florist. It's first time in Utah in more than six months. His hope of finding her was renewed after west valley police disclosed all their investigation materials. Get some more tips from new tips. We did actually result of the KSL coverage of that. But the redacted case file didn't paint the whole picture important. Details about Josh and Michael's relationship and movements in the days after Susan's disappearance were not included. We decided we need to come down. And. Put out these flyers and get some attention to the people that live along that corridor. The public learned of Michael dumping, his Ford Taurus, but not the fine detail of his apparent later paranoia over at not having been destroyed. People seized on the reports of Josh having had an affair not realizing those tips had been discredited. The redacted case file held many many rabbit holes. I don't think an average person. Consid- down. Look, this really wrap their mind around it because there's just there's way too much information way. Too many details IRS hundred different directions at this case could have gone. Journal of Steve Powell eight AM, December eight two thousand nine twenty two hours following the first report of Susan Powell's disappearance. I am so tired but unable to sleep. I've been lying here. Thinking about my grandsons, Charlie and Brayden could Josh do something like this to their mother last night. Josh went to the recycler to find a stout piece of cardboard to cover the broken window. He said there was a picture of a woman on the carton as it lay on the living room floor. Brayden laid down on it and said, mommy, that was painful to hear I told Michael end of Lena that no matter what Susan's problems were she did not deserve the death penalty. Neither one has any sympathy for her Alina is aware. And I think Michael to that. I was in love with Susan yet. Neither seems to be sensitive to any feelings. I may have in the matter of. Her possible demise. They are so anxious to show solidarity with Josh is also troubling. Need to be the same attitude for the sake of the boys as well. As Josh who? After all is my son. The way his mother and her family treated him while growing up is no excuse for anything. He may have done in this matter. But I am not the court or a jury. I am his father. Steve Powell completed his sentence on the voyeurism charges and left prison on March twenty third two thousand fourteen and they knew it was coming, and it was going to be today and in all it had to come. And so I'm not particularly pleased about it. But it had to come Jennifer graves had no intention of reconciling with her father who was then a registered sex offender. How will be on probation for thirty months required to wear a GPS locator and attend sex offender treatment program. The corrections facility says he plans to live in Tacoma that plan soon fell apart in July, the Washington court of appeals reinstated the child pornography count, the judge Ronald colpepper tossed out at the beginning of Steve's two thousand twelve trial. Steve appealed to the Washington state supreme court, but the high court declined to take the case so on October twenty seventh two thousand fourteen Pierce county. Prosecutors obtained a new. Arrest warrant for Steve Powell, Steve and his sole surviving son John were at the time living together at a halfway house into comas hilltop area. Pierce county sheriff's detective sergeant Gary Sanders went and knocked on the door. He was surprised you try shutting the door on me. But you know, shut the door so John open the door. And I says your dad hear Steve was like, well, no, you, you know, and I was like no warrants. I was on the put him handcuffs again and take them back to jail. One more time Gary slapped a pair of pink handcuffs on Steve's wrists times of. Used handcuffs you use those? Head coach said certain detective from west valley gave me Steve's prison letters revealed. He believed police couldn't arrest him again on the child pornography charge. He figured that would amount to double jeopardy. That's not exactly how double jeopardy works. Steph's second trial did not go any better for him than the first on July fifteenth two thousand fifteen a jury found him guilty. The judge sentenced him to five additional years in prison. In August of two thousand fifteen Steve appealed that conviction. Washington's court of appeals heard arguments, then rejected the appeal. Steve in two thousand seventeen asked the Washington supreme court to review his case. Again, the court declined Steve was stuck. About meant before Michael jumped from the parking garage in Minneapolis. Chuck Cox gone to corden Utah and asked to be named conservator of his daughter's estate. Susan in the eyes of the law was still alive and would be until five years after the date of her disappearance. Trucks move put him in position to exercise thirty over Josh and Susan's trust and by extension her share of the life insurance money. After Michael suicide Chuck amended the trust making himself sole trustee. He froze out Josh's mom, Theresa and sister Alina. Steve had voluntarily surrendered any claim to the money that might seem noble gesture, but remember Steve owed his voyeurism victim's restitution, it was in his best interest to be penniless. A year later in may of two thousand fourteen the federal court into coma decided the inter pleader lawsuit over the life insurance money. It's split. The proceeds like this two and a half million dollars to Susan's estate three quarters of a million dollars to Michael's estate about twenty one thousand dollars to Alina and sixteen thousand dollars to John attorney and Bremner considered it a victory for the Cox family. We won the insurance battle, but hang on a second that October Josh's mom Terry sued Chuck in her complaint. She said Chuck's change to the trust had been illegal. She wanted an injunction to keep him from spending any of the money. Terry argued she was entitled to half of the proceeds through the trust an amount, totaling one point one million dollars. Terry and Chuck ended up settling out of court in two thousand. Fifteen terms of the arrangement were not disclosed when Michael killed himself. I thought case over her, right? We're done, but we weren't here came the rest of the palace, understandable perspective, given what I've just described. But let's talk about Terry for a minute. You haven't really heard Terry Powell's voice in this podcast aside from that I nine one one call she made the day of Susan's disappearance. There's a reason for that Terry has shunned the media she's repeatedly expressed a desire to have no contact when I've reached out to her but Terry did speak with police during the investigation, and what she said can provide some insight on her mindset. I'm surprised they can even talk usually. I'm just falling. Jump back to February two thousand ten Jennifer graves had just confronted Josh. While wearing a wire Steve was formulating his theory about Susan running off to Presidio and Terry sat down to speak with Ellis Maxwell. The truth. No, I won't be family. I'll have to go through for their. Oh, my family will Terry shared many of the troubling events from her divorce. She described how Steve had manipulated the kids exposing them to pornography and turning them against her. She said she felt concern at one point that Steve had inappropriate interest in the children, though. She never saw him act on it. Terry didn't seem to remember. Josh having threatened her with a knife when he was a teenager acclaim documented in her divorce records. Civically census. I don't Josh should be fun. Never seen. Recalled I can't imagine. I think that they'll significant. Something that you should hear from me. LS observed there were similarities between how Stephen treated Terry. And how Josh treated Susan Teri? Couldn't see it. I do see him as you know, getting things done, then he also. As a certain disregard or trying to accommodate other people. They needs. Gentle Terry would give her son the benefit of the doubt. And they you know, they want to see. But I didn't get any sense. I've been around them and willing to do to help which up in cloud for because he needed help somehow another Ellis as Jim as he could tried to warn Terry that the person responsible for Susan's disappearance would be held accountable. But as we now know no one ever has. Back after this. Hey, cold listeners. I love a good puzzle. And I'm betting you do too. There's nothing quite as satisfying as figuring out the answers just in the Nick of time. Introducing hunter killer a monthly subscription game where you become the detective immersed in a murder mystery. I just got my first box. 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Get ten percent off your first month by going to better help dot com slash cold. Why not get started today? Go to better help dot com slash cold. Simply fill out a questionnaire and get matched with a counselor. You'll love better help dot com slash cold. Journal of Steve Powell eight forty five AM, December eight two thousand nine. Twenty three hours following the first report of Susan Powell's disappearance went into a Lena's room a few minutes ago to find out if she has heard anything. I was crying. Lina mentioned she has mixed feelings about being perfectly straightforward if called on to testify about their relationship. She did not think Susan was quite the bit Josh made out to be and thanks. Josh may have helped Turner into a bit. I can't disagree with that. And I am with Alina. However, I said we should support him in any way, we can partly for the sake of the boys a doubt Susan is alive. And I doubt Josh's hands are clean if he murdered her. I wish he had not. But she did treat him in an almost schizophrenic way and person can only take so much. Chuck and Judy Cox had I filed their wrongful death lawsuit against Washington state in the Pierce county. Superior court in late November two thousand fourteen it jumped to the US district court into coma. The suit accused Washington's department of social and health services DSs as well as the social workers who handled charleen and Britain's case of failing to protect the boys ignoring the threat, Josh presented. We want the DS h as to switch gears, which is it's the best interest of the child. That's what they should be looking at not reunification any costs attorney Bremner and the rest of the team took that argument to the judge what we're saying is based on the facts, I think everybody knows is that there were red flags about Josh the biggest one being the disappearance of his wife in his involvement on Tober, seventh two thousand fifteen the federal district court ruled against the Kocsis in his decision judge. Ronald Layton wrote the court could not exercise the luxury of hindsight in judging the social workers for failing to prevent the murder. Layton, said federal law, provided the social workers, absolute immunity. Dss he said had done its job in notifying, the state court of the goings on. So it also could not be blamed, according to the order Pierce county. Superior court. Judge Katherine Nelson's decision to allow visitation at Josh Powell's house was the closest thing to cause for the murder in a footnote judge late and also mentioned the failed effort to pass Charlie. In Britain's law in Washington, he called it bad public policy in general, even though he conceded. It would have been fitted everyone in the pal case. On this the judge and and Bremner disagreed that should be the law in every state in the nation. It's pretty simple pretty simple, right? Two months later. The Cox's appealed the ruling to the ninth US circuit court of appeals. It took two years before the appeals court heard oral arguments on the case, the CPS workers failed even review the divorce file have they reviewed it. Is there something they would have found there that you think would have changed this outcome. Yes. You're on our believed that they would have they would have found that he had threatened to kill his mother with a knife. When he was younger that he had killed animals before all classic signs of people who can snap people who can do very violent things attorney, Ted. Buck argued the case on behalf of the is in Seattle on December fourth two thousand seventeen almost eight years to the day after Susan's disappearance the court assumed without evidence in the record. The judge Nelson had as much information as the law enforcement officers who are warning the social workers that they had concerns about the safety the boys that judge Nelson had as much information as the Cox's who had known Josh Powell for years as his own sister who obviously had known him for many many years. The court assumed that the judge knew that visitations were regularly occurring at the Powell house when the record does not support that assistant Washington attorney general Peter helm burger argued the hunches and beliefs of Susan's, friends and family members were not grounds for concern over and above what the family court already knew he noted Charlie and Brayden had not been afraid of their father. In fact, they had dashed to greet him at every visit it wasn't concerned based on him being violent towards his children unsupervised. It's finding and there was the FOX has check that the children were at risk of danger. And that's that was the the the the justification for requiring supervises attention with the natural father. Right. Correct. But it wasn't. It wasn't based on any reports relegations of abuse of physical abuse directed towards understand towards children Chuck left the courtroom that day feeling confident to me. It was like why don't you really now the ninth circuit over very impressive in their ability to. Get past the bowl down to the truth. So Chuck waited for good news. None came. Time went by. And he was reduced to waiting for any news. On January tenth two thousand eighteen right in the middle of this podcast. The appeals court released its decision the opinion from the appeals court upheld the immunity for the social workers. Meaning they could not be sued as individuals, but the appeals court reversed the district court's decision regarding DS HS, sending the Cox families negligence claim against the state of Washington back down for trial. Jury needs to be able to determine whether in the face of all of those risks. The state was deliberately indifferent in not moving visitation back to a secure facility in not assuring that you had a supervisor there who could intervene. These are Jewish issues as I record this that trial is still to come. And Bremner said she still hopes a jury will find in their favor forcing change in priorities and placing the safety of children above the parental rights of suspected murderers. And it's going to mean a lot to me and the Kocsis if we get that. It'll mean everything. Of course, one could also argue Washington might not have needed to protect Charlie and Brayden from Josh if police in Utah had arrested him in the first place. In the years since the murder-suicide many people have accused the west valley city police department of botching the case. So I asked Ellis Maxwell point blank. If he agreed absolute now with him, the case just comes from ignorance, in my opinion. But you know, I respect it and understand where they would come up with that not knowing everything that I know, you know, and the rest of the investigative team it's easy for people to. Monday morning quarterback case super easy. So I don't get offended when I hear it. And I think the reason why because I understand where they're coming from. But why didn't else just arrest? Josh we're getting there. But you know, Josh beat us to the punch. Unfortunately, Ellis told me he had hoped to screen the case against Josh four formal charges body or no body in the spring of two thousand twelve which raises an interesting point the case had never been screened and the tragedy is that we were moving at process now, we've won't get control human behavior, Salt Lake county district attorney sin Gill came into office in two thousand eleven midway through the Powell investigation. He learned that while members of his staff had worked with police on search warrants and subpoenas. Detectives and prosecutors had not met to review the evidence in a holistic way, I wanted to make sure that everybody who was part of the investigation got to give their input as. Well, as a collaborative collective of legal minds who said, okay, what is the flexibility of the range of our options that we have deputy DA Blake Nakamura told me prosecutors were willing to go forward with a no body case. But it depended on police chasing down every possible lead. The unique challenge in those kinds of cases is it creates an opportunity for all these alternative explanations. That are contrary to what the allegation of a homicide would be they went off. They meant somebody else they had debt, and so they're trying to leave the debt. Remember, they're only has to be one person saying, I have some reasonable doubt. As we've seen the Powell family worked hard to create those alternative explanations. Susan ran off to Brazil with Stephen coacher Susan was sexually motivated Susan was suicidal. Susan had. Used her boys. And when you're having to defeat that by circumstantial evidence that the person no is gone like no contact with family, no activity and financial records that tends to create a compelling picture. But when you're dealing with reasonable doubt. Sometimes that's not enough. It might seem likely to the majority of people that Josh Powell killed his wife, but prosecutors needed evidence to prove that it's not just the court of public opinion that gives you a successful prosecution is the evidence s necessary under a rule of law with the burden of proof that we have when you don't have that physical body when that forensic pieces missing. There is a whole host of logical possibilities, and if I have more than one logical possibility in any realistic sense. I have reasonable doubt not arresting Josh at the outset had been a tactical decision. Even now. Now sim- does not second. Guess it. This is not television. This isn't CSI this isn't cut away as where you browbeat somebody. They confess this is real life. And of course, there would have been no point in arresting. Josh from the beginning if prosecutors were not at that point prepared to file charges when decisions are made to file or not file those are not light decisions. And they're not like decisions because it is a situation where we file and we're not successful in that. We can't go back and say, geez. Can you? Give us a shot if they had charged Josh with murder and a jury acquitted him it wouldn't have mattered if someone later discovered Susan's body double jeopardy would have prohibited them from charging him again. In the wake of the Powell case Cim, instituted changes within the district attorney's office, they mandated in person screenings of homicide cases before a team of prosecutors ensuring diversity of you points and rigorous debate over the strength of the evidence. It's tough to save that process could have changed the outcome in the Pell case were at in place from the beginning. But sim like else does not believe police botched the investigation. Absolutely, not absolutely not. If anything what I wanted to indicate from what we learned. And what we observed. And what we at with that commitment to finding the proof. They never wavered from that. On June, sixth two thousand seventeen I mailed a letter to Steve Powell. In it. I described my work on this podcast, and expressed my interest in speaking with him in particular, I hope Steve and I could discuss his planned autobiography, which he had outlined in given the tentative title somewhere on the moon. Steve didn't respond to my letter. A few weeks later Steve left prison again after serving just a fraction of his five year sentence. He had received time off for good behavior. I actually staked out his address during visit to Tacoma that Tober, but I never saw him fire my dad's been pretty closed mouth about everything in relationship this case in I don't think he'll ever change that. Maybe I don't know. I mean miracles happen. But I don't see it happening at this point. I do believe that he knows about stuff that Josh probably told him. Stuff. Maybe he wasn't privy to it as as he was planning or or executing his plan. But I think that in, you know, at the end he was told I think he knows. Will he ever tell? I doubt. It Pierce county sheriff's detective sergeant Gary Sanders kept tabs on Steve after he left prison at that point. Gary was running the county's sex offender monitoring program and the notified us that he was hoping King County which kind of threw off because of health issues. Steve's health had taken a nosedive in the summer of two thousand eighteen Gary learn Stephen been admitted to Saint Joseph medical center into coma. Gary called the hospital in the hopes Steve might make a dying declaration. But the hospital told him Steve was getting better. They mentioned that he was on progression getting towards hell patient being released and stuff. So I kind of still monitoring, but I was not as concerned for the nine declaration then just before five AM on July twenty second two thousand eighteen Steve Powell died at the hospital. From severe cardiomyopathy heart failure. No one bothered to inform. Gary called down there to see. I'll hey hell was doing is. He is still in the hospital. The initially one tell me thing just because roles and stuff and the next plane because of the monitoring, and they then for me that he'd passed away word of Steve Powell's death started to spread. I learned early the morning of July twenty fourth. I immediately sent a text message to Ellis matter of fact, I learned of from you from Steve's passing I fired off a text to a couple of other guys that I'm real close with the were great asset to us today. Shen, and you know, we had our chuckles. And there wasn't a lot of a love loss there. So I mean, we still talk about Steve Chantrey and his music, and yeah, we're cops. We laugh about it. And that's how we get through things. Chuck Cox reacted differently to Steve's death passed. I got thinking what a waste of life. He's he ruined the lives of children his family. He took my daughter in the grandchildren tore part is own family. In going. What a loss. Steve's death certificate showed. He was cremated on August, sixth of two thousand eighteen it listed his youngest daughter Alina as his next of kin. Many news stories at the time suggested Stephen died. Knowing important information about the whereabouts of Susan's body, but Gary like Ellis wasn't. So sure hold much hope that he might say anything was the head of the slim chance in your mind. I think it was a slim chance he. He. I don't think he would've told us. And and to be honest. I don't know if he did know. Journal of Steve Powell ten thirty PM, December eight two thousand nine thirty six hours following the first report of Susan Powell's disappearance. I feel like Josh did a truly stupid thing and probably disposed of her body in a very grotesque way. I think he probably went to some former industrial land just west of west valley city and cremated her. I don't see how he could live with an image like that in his mind. I want Josh to be with his boys. But I am also angry with him for murdering such a beautiful woman that he could do such a thing once suggested he could do it. Again, if things go too badly, he could murder the boys and hang himself to avoid going to prison and leaving them with the Mormon families. That would no doubt take custody of them. Josh's life with Susan was utterly miserable. As was hers with him. Why she stayed with him? I do not know evidently this tragedy is my answer for why Josh hung on. He wanted to do it his way and avoid a messy and costly divorce. High of news forum. This will be very cost we process, and he may lose. Anyway, why someone who's otherwise? So smart would do something so utterly stupid is beyond me. Years ago. I made up my mind that Josh was of my kids capable of doing such a thing. But our conversations of late suggested that I had nothing to worry about. Although I thought about it with concern at times he seemed resolve that doing something so callous would be most disruptive to his and his children's lives. Now, I wish I had talked more about the likelihood that someone involved in such a crime would be caught. If I had only known if I could only turn back time. On the conclusion of cold, sometimes it isn't possible. Sometimes the right decision is to get out. If you haven't already please subscribe to cold toss us a rating or a review you can find cold on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter at the cold podcast for video clips pictures from the case and more hit up the cold podcast dot com. Also, if Susan story sounds familiar in your own life. In other words, if you or someone you know is experiencing domestic abuse in any form, please get immediate help in the US. Support is a phone call away at the national domestic violence hotline at one eight hundred seven nine nine seven two three three or online at WWW dot the hotline dot org. A quick thank you to the team. Kristen sorenson. Eric openshaw, Ken fall, Danielle Prager, cure, Fairmont. Becky, Bruce, Josh Tilton at a Mason, Jillian Friedman, and especially Cheryl Worsley, the music for cold was composed by Michael bond Miller, except for the tar stuff that was me cold is a KSL podcast. Thank you for listening.
The Disappearance of Susan Powell, Part 2
"There's an old nursery rhyme. About what little boys are made of? snips and snails and puppy dog tails, while girls, according to the poem are made of Sugar and spice and everything nice. I'm reminded of this simple and powerful poem about gender roles when I think about the disappearance of Susan Powell and everything that would come after. Susan Powell's journals reveal a young woman who yearned to be a wife, and mother and Susan was an amazing mother to Charlie and Brayden. Nando. She tried to be a good wife, but her husband Josh Powell didn't make that easy. Not by a long shot. To say that Joshua's twisted ideas of what he believed. His wife should be turned Susan's dream of a family. The sugar and spice and everything nice into a living nightmare trapped. In emotionally abusive marriage, she leaned into her religion for guidance and support, but who could have foreseen the lengths of depravity. Josh would delve into to get what he wanted. Last week in episode one of our two part series we reveal that Susan Powell disappeared, but she left behind a haunting trail of breadcrumbs. A videotape and secret will that warned of the extreme turmoil in her marriage, and that is something happened to her well. It might not be an accident even if it looked like one. Susan was afraid of her husband Josh. An episode to will continue to unpack Susan's disappearance and is behavior after would set in motion. What would become a runaway freight train of events hurtling toward the unthinkable? The murders of Charlie and Brayden by their own father, and could this case change history for the many vulnerable children in the foster care system of Washington state. I'm Caroline Massaro with Kim Shepard and this is the scene of the crime. Oh, Caroline! I'm so glad you gave us just a little bit of hope their this whole story. Especially, obviously, the deaths of Charlie Brayden is so tragic. I hope there's some kind of you know bit of silver lining at the end of all this, but let's get back to the story at this point is wintertime in Utah snows on the ground. Josh Powell claims that he had just taken his two little boys for a camping trip. They came home and his wife was missing. But, then, of course, one of those little boys says well. Mom came camping with us. She just didn't come home. Police say by December twenty fourth. Josh was considered a person of interest. But! He was never arrested for his wife's disappearance. Less than two weeks after his wife went missing, he took his boys to his Dad HAP- dad's house in puyallup Washington quote unquote for the holidays and on January Sixth Josh then returned with his brother Michael now remember his brother Michael because we're going to get back to him. There's a lot to unpack with this brother. Anyway Josh and Michael They drove to Utah and in a whirlwind path. The family's belongings Ghana Storage Unit and moved to Puyallup for good or Josh brought his boys to live with his Dad Steve, and that house in that house of horrors. Yeah, exactly it was during that time that allegedly Josh, Steve started the Susan Powell dot org website where anonymous entries claim that Joshua's reputation was being smeared by his estranged sister Jennifer, the LDS Church and Family. More posts proffered an alternative theory that Susan had run off with. This guy named Steven Coker who happened to vanish the same week Susan, and that the chew had run off to Brazil together. Now Susan's family vehemently rejected these claims as being unsupported by any evidence and that Susan would never leave her children. West Valley city police say they never had enough evidence to bring charges against Josh, because didn't have a body or crime scene now. Obviously many disagree with this including legal experts and law enforcement in Washington state. Where do you stand on this because there's a lot of it? That's hard. You know it's so hard to Monday morning. quarterback, this kind of thing but. Gosh? I do feel like they should have at least arrested him and tried to put together a case out of know how far they actually went with that i. know the investigated him, but did they actually. Put together what evidence they had, give it to the district attorney and say. Can we prosecute like? Did they actually take that step because I? Feel like that's an important. Thing you know. One thing for the police officers to say, we don't know if we have enough evidence, but it's another for the prosecutor to say that I think there was definitely that push pull between the prosecutors. We don't have enough. We don't have enough because remember. As they were looking at all these possibilities you know Steve could have had just as much as a motive as Josh to want to get rid of Susan because he couldn't have her. Who knows I mean? They already are getting information on him that he's kind of a Weirdo. Kind of like definitely has issues. And once I could see where she already said she wanted to leave him and wanted a divorce that you know they might believe that. She had tried to leave on her own, but at the same time it's like yes. She left her boys. She would never do that clearly, and then this other dude coker. Did he ever surface anywhere like what happened with him? You know what to my knowledge. He's never surface. It just so happens that he disappeared at around the same time I. Guess It's a possibility. Did she know him? Did? They have evidence that they were friends or anything? I don't think she knew him, but there were ties, just weird random ties, but not anything specific, but it would be enough. For you know for a really good defense attorney to have some doubt. I think they should have arrested him and I think they should have went to trial, but I could see why they could see the reasons of why. They wanted to continue building this case. But I mean I have seen. I've been my true crime. Forays and different podcasts and stuff like. People have been convicted on much less evidence and evidence that she had against him was so circumstantial. Evidence was so powerful and remember police kept looking for Susan's body in abandoned mines in the Utah Desert. And the relationship between the Powell and Cox families became even more toxic. There were many points of contention custody of the boys. The Powell family wouldn't even let the Cox's spend time with their grandchildren. And then there was also Susan's journals that the Cox family felt the POWs were exploiting interviews given to the media by Steve gave police probable cause for a search warrant of Steve's house in two thousand eleven to find Susan's journals when they executed that search warrant investigators were hoping to at last. Get enough dirt on Josh to arrest him for Susan's disappearance. But investigators said you mentioned the House of Horrors Cam in you were not off the mark there in Stevens Room. They found child pornography and evidence that Steve had secretly videotaped numerous women and young girls, including Susan more than forty five hundred photos of Susan. Many included close ups of specific body parts, and it was clear by the photos that Susan had no idea that she was being photographed, so steve was arrested on charges of voyeurism and child, pornography and police told. Ese Chess, the boys were in danger, and so they became wards of the state wants Steve had been arrested. Chuck Cops Susan's Dad filed for custody, of Charlie and Brayden and the Cox's were granted temporary custody of the boys. The, court told Josh that if he was to re regain custody of Charlie and Braden, he would have to move out of Steve's home and undergo a court ordered psych evaluation now. All of this is an interesting point to talk about like there's a lot. There's a lot of guys who potentially could have murdered their wives, and so this is a big deal like they get custody of the children when they might have possibly murdered the mother. You know the the boys weren't. Weren't taken from Josh because he might have potentially have murdered his wife, or at least it had something to do with her disappearance, they were they were custody was given to the grandparents finally because of that I'm search warrant, and because Steve was arrested, and so anyway I thought that that was an interesting point to talk about like how awful that must have been for the Cox family that their grandchildren are with the father who could possibly have murdered their mother, you know. I wonder also about the difference between just the. Way Things Work and Utah versus the way they work in Washington whether it's law enforcement whether it's just the community in general like the. The vibe of the community because of the heavy LDS presence and the heavy focus on family, super, Super Conservative, and then you go to Washington where it's sort of the opposite. and I wonder if that played a role in the fact that we're willing to go out on a limb and take these kids away from their dad. WHEREAS UTAH NOT WELL IN FAIRNESS TO UTAH. He bolted so fast. They didn't have jurisdiction in Washington like they Utah is actually still trying to work, and this is a really great point that you brought up because. Let me give a little bit more detail. Explain why. So Josh rented a house. You know because the court said Hey, you can't live at Steve's home. But authorities allege it was all for show that he never actually moved into this house, and which is using the rental to satisfy the court to get Charlie and brain back while he continued to live at his dad's home now, according to a two thousand twelve interview in the psychology and Seattle, podcast the forensic psychologist who was hired by the state of Washington to evaluate Josh Powell said that he interviewed Josh for a total of eight hours now. The state's evaluator found that Josh had adequate parenting skills a steady employment history. History and no criminal record or history of domestic violence, and here's that part where we were talking about where he was emotionally abusive, but there was no at least on record physical abuse right, so the evaluator said that he still had some concerns, and so the initial recommendation was for Josh to have visitations with his sons several times a week, and that they should be supervised for social worker now. Here's the part that I was talking about where the Utah Police were worried about these kids and so what they did was. The West Valley city police had seized a bunch of computers from Joshua's after Susan disappeared in two thousand nine, but Josh was so computer savvy, and he put these sophisticated computer. Encryption on all of these computers I mean crazy. I think the FBI even tried to track. They're still trying to crack some of the codes on his. Computer encryption, but anyway before the judge ruled to give him back temporary custody or to get him in that process. They were able to find on one of his computers. They were able to get into it and they found cartoon incest pornography. The images while not illegal, due to there, being in a hand-drawn or cartoonish, three D format were caused great concern. And so to the person who conducted that court order evaluation particularly, because Josh had denied having such material to this court evaluator, and so the pictures were i. mean it's just I. Mean just to give you an idea. The pictures some of the pictures were depictions of cartoon characters involved in incest, but WHO's GonNa? Admit that yes I have those in my home. I mean that's not something anybody is to want to admit to. This is true, but given his history given the family history. You think it's interesting that the psychiatrist or psychologist said he was concerned because Josh had claimed he didn't have any of that, but he did. The Lai is not what concerns me. Like confused I. think that when you look at the C. Finally, they're. They're at least putting that. They're putting together the dad has this crazy. Like is going to prison because of his voyeurism and his child pornography, and all that rights and the apple obviously does not fall too far from the tree in the whole time. Josh was acting like I don't have any porn I don't have anything and clearly. He's got a lot of stuff going on his computer, so what what the evaluator did. Was Josh was mandated by the court. To undergo a psycho sexual evaluation. And polygraph test. If you wanted the kids back so to him, you know we know that people can can lie on polygraph tests I mean. We know that the Green River killer totally dead and passed with flying colors, but that psycho sexual evaluation. That's pretty crazy like it's. There's a lot more to there and shared what is that? What do you do in one of those it'd be. Do you have any idea? You know I don't know I mean maybe. I mean what I I think of. Smiling. Thinking the same thing like they do you show? Images and see if they get a aroused diabetes. That's so gross I. There has to be another way. I can't believe that that's how they do it. Because that's just so wrong well, here's the thing to. The grandparents recognized like this is another trigger for Josh just like they recognize after they had all the information about Susan and her secret will in her the video like in her wanting to push for getting a divorce. If you didn't change his ways like he's up against the wall like he's already cracked in, know he cracked when allegedly you know he. Had something to do with her disappearance. It was because she was like threatening a divorce, and he felt like he was like in the crosshairs and here it was again because he went to court thinking. Oh, I'm getting my kids back now all of a sudden. It's like oh no. You're not, and we're going to give you a serious psycho, sexual evaluation and a polygraph test and so. He was under the gun and Chuck Cox was like Hey. This is when he he's capable of doing anything. The problem is it transitions from being about Susan, although obviously, it's hugely about Susan. To the safety of the children they are so. Vulnerable and unfortunately the evaluator didn't impose any change in the visitation schedule with Charlie and braid, and even though the Cox family begged, and that the kids were in imminent danger, and so on February fifth two, thousand, twelve a few days after that requirement to the polygraph and the psycho sexual evaluation, a social worker took Charlie in Brayden from their grandparents home to Josh's rental home for a supervised visit. Now this visit should have taken place in a secure ds HFS facility, but somewhere along the line. A social worker had changed visit to be allowed to take place in Josh's rental home. So the social worker. Who Brought Charlie brain to Joshua's house had been there before four supervised visit, but this time cam this time it was different. The boys got out of the car were step ahead of her when Josh Open the door long enough for the voice to run inside, and then he slammed the door in her face, and proceeded to lock the door, and the social worker was pounding on the door, calling to be let in which he started smelling gasoline, she ran to the sidewalk and called nine one. Onto emergency life threatening situations, Earth Earth Bill Deputy. Court on Wednesday. and. This is really McConnell Kobe live. The children previously. I HAVE NO IDEA The PRISCILA contract you. Take your. Cam. It's so sad. She was like begging them to come and the nine one one operator was like total bureaucrat. Like what's your name? WHO's Josh Powell? What color is your car and she's like? What do you think it's like what we talked about before where they're just trying to keep them on the line? They're just trying to get as much information as possible or do you think it was something else? No, it's just like. He was rude to her. He was really condescending. You know and she I mean I can't believe that she wasn't screaming like help. Help like I mean maybe share training. Like would teach her to be more. Even Keel because I would have just been like. To get I mean I can't even. I can't even imagine because she was maybe because she was so even Keel. He wasn't taking it seriously. You know what I'm sure and I remember this that they were embarrassed by that. I mean more than embarrassed mortified, and like that's not a nine one one call. Yes, and two and you say good job, buddy. That was a nine one one call where you're like. I mean I don't think that they could have gotten there fast enough, but you know who knows maybe they could have like. There's no point in going there, but you know how sometimes like the law enforcement can get there within like a minute ray. Like so often though that's based on where they're coming from like. If there happens to be somebody in the area, they can get there in a minute, but if they don't happen to be in the area s going to take longer while so after ten minutes, the house just exploded. With Charlie and Brayden inside. Where you calling. From. Ask. One nine one eight night. Court! A man. He wouldn't let. Him. On the line. The blast killed both boys and Josh, which was his diabolical plan to begin with. The authorities say that minutes before the Inferno Powell had sent emails to several people saying quote I'm sorry goodbye. And emails to his pastor and cousins with instructions on where to find his money. And how to shut off his utilities records also show that Josh had withdrawn seven thousand dollars from his bank account and had donated his children's toys and books to local charities the day before the incident. So I, spoke to Seattle, attorney, and Bremner who's been helping the Cox family since the year after Susan's disappearance in two thousand nine, and she gives us some insight into this case from her perspective. into data, the kids were murdered. I was scheduled at dinner with an rules time writer. And and she's been helping the family she was. She's passed away, but she's a wonderful person. And I just remember obvious Oh devastated, and all of the were that the only person I can think of other than the confidence that want to spend time with an. We just sat dinners. Our phone sublime. And Talk I. Just never had yesterday. They had never talked to my stomach can. Just. Like, like the whole world you know just. Don Off Axel. On and so I was involved. For the family. And a number of ways once the kids for murder. Of course, I wouldn't Vince. You know we're involved in the. Various arrangements with legal matters about Susan's Day. with respect to the kids don't forget the know. There's so many system terms case, but judges family wanted to. The voice. And, so we had to go through that whole. Toss US I was in the process of getting on a restraining order when running on actually out, and would enjoyer accommodate. Share. With an signs on the public. To Stop By. The. The. US to very josh by the kids sitting murder, so I love that and brought up. And Dawn and their work with the Cox family because I was actually working with them as their news anchor when all this happened, and they spent several days. Focusing their radio show on helping the Cox family, making sure that Charleen Brayden, their own space away from the Powell family, raising money for those sites that were around Charlie and Brayden. And their dedication made such a huge difference in so many lives. So. Even though Charlie and Breitner gone even though Susan is gone. Is such a touching statement that the community came together donated money. To. At least give these boys a little bit of peace in the end well and. she also mentions Ed Troyer. Who's the Publican as you know the public information officer and he has done so much. In this case, and was right there with Ron and don and I can just hear Ron and don like this is what they do best right like and and I've heard like answered. Those plots were really expensive. I don't know how expensive they were but I mean it's not like it was five dollars. I mean it was. It was like tens of thousands of dollars. How I don't understand I'd ask an. Talk about this family. Why would they try to get? Josh buried next to the boys that he had murdered. And this is what she had to say that there was some information that we had a certain family members who tried to get the life. Insurance proceeds to pay for the. Expenses, so there was like a run on insurance. Funny a Gecko. On I couldn't believe it when I heard it I. When I got the call. The person, said anything down. And it's just I can't even any motive maybe sell. I know a lot of the things I've written over the years and put out in the Internet. On Saturday I think that there was an Michael positions full day before until themselves. They enacted Lena's and chair cut another and spend time students so given what I know about. The family and wreckage said publicly about Josh about the case. They really is victim. On that they felt as of the press. And they felt that he was injured force of the dependency. Basically, there was a battle between the families over. These huge insurance policies basically three point, five, million or something crazy between the two of them right and that. John. Cut Out Susan and her family from these insurance, and then put all of it Michael's name, and then like a couple of trinkets, percentage wise for. A couple of his other siblings right. And so. They felt like he was a victim of the press and media. And that he was the victim, Josh was that Josh was that they hounded him that he. was forced into this into a corner, and that he was a victim of this. I don't see how anybody could make that argument because with all of the material, the evidence of pornographic material and other things from Joshua's house from Stevens House. Even if he wasn't physically abusive to his wife for kids. Clearly, there was some depravity happening. He wasn't just being made a scapegoat for no reason. Yeah I mean you could see like when you look at the videos you can. Can just see like his the weariness I mean good. Good I'm glad you know because what he did. Exactly you know. I mean I. Don't get how the family could do that. I really don't I. Just that doesn't no matter. If the media hounds you or whatever that doesn't give you justification for killing your own sons, and abducting and killing their mother, so so yeah I mean it's it's it it? It was a question I had to ask because I just like. Who are these people right? So earlier I said to remember Josh's brother Michael the same brother who helped Josh pack up his Utah House and moved to Puyallup. And two thousand thirteen, approximately one year, after Josh had ordered his sons and committed suicide. Michael jumped from the roof. Oh, parking garage and killed himself. Now police say. There is strong circumstantial evidence that Michael Powell new Josh had allegedly done to Susan and help Tim Dispose of the body detective say that Michael took his Ford Taurus to a place called Lindell's auto salvage specifically because they specialized in crushing cars and that he did this back in December. Of Two thousand nine, which is not long at all after Susan vanished, and later when police asked him about it, Michael Actually ordered satellite images from that lot because he was looking for that car. Because police got lucky and found that Ford Taurus a cadaver dog indicated that a decomposing human body had been in the trunk. Unfortunately DNA tests were inconclusive now police have questioned Michael. Several Times in two thousand twelve, and said he was very evasive about why he left the car at that location police that Michael's car was towed to Pendleton from Baker Oregon, which is roughly four hundred miles from West Valley city ironically, that's about half the distance. Remember the eight hundred miles at. He made on that rental car. The day after that Josh drove day after his wife went missing now. Utah authorities have since said as I said that they believe Josh and Michael were accomplices in the murder of Susan. And an actually interviewed him and I asked her like what was that like? I thought. With me. for security. I was worried at. That has a nation that gave me concern for the tape system. So I've got to police officers with the I asked him to be searched. He innocence on record on refused. He refused to say whether he was armed and employer didn't want the police officers their his lawyers opposition in an old house. So I had the opposite stand just outside the Lindo for the day and are no shrinking. Shrinking. Fire! I am not and so now and is representing the caucuses in a case against the state of Washington for not protecting Charlie and Braden from their father. No, she gives us a breakdown of where the cases. For Rose because when we first founded, you had it in federal court was removed to Federal Court apartment Attorney General's office. Of Court? Some judgements that he had to go to report appeals now for a long time, we one. Of his heels, and of course now back in State, court on trial, start on hand. And, what does he usually about is these two boys? Drilling braiding were in the care custody control. He has when they were murdered by Van. And the CPS now that he was a second killing his own life. And they also knew that these kids were potentially because they were saying. Like I pictures of the. Car came on mine and saints. Change things. You can't resist. At midnight in the snow in Utah Allergy disappeared and also saying things that they found money's by, and he would be. Seventy said things like that and my Mommy's Dad. You know all these scientists and of course Houston with him during that ill say trip. And she never came back his nursing, so international cases basically that they knew the suspect in the murder of her, and that these kids potential witnesses their addition edition about fifty read signs that were more are intentionally disregarded by CPS that led to the Japanese kids in. I think striking the most. Casual observer of the trial is. He was visiting kids in UCSF. Agility Nelken ever get one of those. Anywhere in the United States? And if There was a decision by one K for Communication Josh House. That's where he got after to them. Ask. Prior to the official causes of death of seven year old, Charlie and five-year-old was carbon monoxide poisoning, but the coroner noted that both children suffered significant shopping injuries on their head and neck. Now a hatchet was found by Josh's body and investigators believe that Josh attacked Charlie in Brayden with the hatchet repeatedly on the neck and shoulder subduing them, though they were still alive then. Literally doused their bodies with clean and spread gas throughout the House and set it on fire. So! If there was ever any any any doubt that he murdered his wife, he just blew it out of the water. Oh, yeah, Eddie, who can do that to their two little boys could do anything to a grown woman. Yeah I mean. We still have to say allegedly, but in my mind. Of course, he did it if you could do that I your children. If. You could do that to them if you could do that to anybody, but especially like these boys. had. Suffered so much. And I get it that sometimes people are like well. They've suffered so much. I want to end their misery. I don't want them to suffer any longer, but there are ways to do that with compassion. I was no level of compassion in this. He didn't care about them. He didn't WanNa live without them. He knew it was over for him because not only. Not only were. They are going to be taken away because you know my money's on the fact that he wouldn't be able to pass that psycho sexual evaluation based on found on his computer, and then he wouldn't be able to pass a polygraph on top of that. The boys were starting to talk. The boys were starting to talk about what had happened from their perspectives, but now the most important thing that the Cox's want from the lawsuit is change in the actions of policy of say chess because there were so many red flags, I mean the Cox is begged them. Beg then not to let Josh have them. We wanted to never happen again. Ever But we want this to D-, verdicts Missouri that speaks. To how wrong these wrongs were! And then you can have an agency that they follow their own policies. They don't chain during the digitals. It's almost like there's kind of a replica independence that permeates the whole agency. It's like a Just kind of putting one. Wouldn't the otherwise now putting side at least in our Hayes to the consequences of the decision. And in this case we had A. Red Flags jury of fifty different sides. That were ours. Any one of which had. Any one of these gated the kitchen Sylvia live. So lanes is violence seven? Passionate. Descend on fire. The something good I'm Lazy Fun Shelling Breaking. down. All that. Doctor that said they. They knew they were alive. Until until they become aspect blazing liberalized. Its worst of the worst. The interesting thing about the law in Washington State and I'm not sure if it's exactly the same elsewhere, but something that I know is something I. Know is true in here. Washington state is that the state imperative is to reunite families. So when you talk to a social worker about handling child abuse cases, the first thing that they try to do is not necessarily to protect the child. It's to reunite the families. And so I think that's where you get into this will. Why was Josh still allowed to see his kids? When we knew there was some kind of criminal behavior happening? You know we didn't possibly know the depth of it, but we knew something was wrong with that whole situation. Obviously, why is he still allowed to see those kids? Well, because in the state of Washington the number, one imperative of social workers is to reunite families or to keep them unified. And, so even if you have severe abuse situations, it's very likely the parents can still get some kind of visitation. And you're spot on. You are absolutely spot on Kim and says that the Cox family suit you know basically. They don't want Diaz Hsa to just. Parental rights are the number one priority. The children. What's in the best interest of the children should be the number one priority. Another interesting thing I talked to Ann, about was her thoughts about how Joshua's manipulation played a part in this horrific tragedy I mean when he was evaluated, and this is not to give props to Josh, but just to give you a picture of this a fuller picture of this guy, he he is I q tested at one twenty eight, which is higher than about ninety seven percent of the population. And, what if anything of Josh Intelligence had to do with him? Never being charged in this and he. Basically said that he was such. A huge squeaky wheel got away with a lot of stuff. Not murder per se, but just in life in their relationship together. His manipulation Susan I I also think that when you start getting away with those little things. The things that you find yourself wanting to get away with? Get bigger and bigger and bigger. So you think you're invincible, and you could do whatever you want well, and that gets back to your original thing that you were talking about history like his dad wrote the book on that his dad was against authority against you know was was angry about politics. You know angry at religion. Angry at boundaries didn't WANNA. have any boundaries didn't WANNA do any thought. People were idiots, and that's basically was Joshua's whole roll. Like how Susan Live with that? For as long as she did I mean clearly, it just wore her down. And I think that it's important to talk about the good works at the Cox, family is doing now to support families that are experiencing domestic violence. You know they've made it their mission to help. Primarily I mean men can be victims of of domestic or survivors of domestic violence, but it's mostly women. Let's let's just call it like that. And they're just turning this horrible tragedy into. Helping. Other. Women see that it's not just. You know this is an emotionally abusive story. It's not necessarily the physical abuse that so often you you feel goes hand in hand with domestic violence right well, and the other thing is that that emotional abuse can escalate to physical violence and I think that if there are efforts made to deal with that emotional abuse early on before it gets to that point. That's that's. That's great. Yeah, no, the signs like you said like you can't imagine someone taking your car away either but I think that it's like it's a slow kind of thing. Where suddenly like all of your rights being stripped, and you have someone like manipulating you and changing the way that you think about yourself and your perceptions and and her family remember was all in Washington. Yeah, but you know what's crazy. Though is usually happens when there's not a supportive family there to give you advice to help you see things in a different way to to be a a soft place to fall if you need to leave, she had all that she had that. Support a family and parents who really cared and wanted to be part of her life and I'm just amazed that. In that situation, even with all that support, she wasn't able to get out. Yeah, Yeah I mean it's something to right now during the pandemic in Washington I'm kind of flipping for a second. You know police say that. Overall crime. Is Down in Washington state but. Domestic calls are up. And it just it just warrants like we're GONNA put some blinks up on our website. If you. Need support need help you know. There are resources out. Imagine I think we should put stuff up on our website to website the. We think that we're suffering because we're stuck at home, but like. When you're in a supportive family, and you're stuck at home is a lot different than when you're in a toxic relationship where there's a either physical or emotional or both abuse and you're trapped with your abuser, you know. And really wanted me to. Let everyone know that the Cox's are so appreciative for all of the support. They received after all of these years. Cages in a long time and I just WanNa to say that my check and duty costs costs. So appreciate everybody's support and empathy. You know through all these years. They can't say enough how important to them, and how many spended them? I mean they've been through the worst tragedy any of us and think. Daughter and her grandchildren, and they tried to keep the kids from Josh when they first tried everything. Instill this happened, so I'm just want to say that. They're very very grateful for the support. From the community instead pass the court for about attacking, which is wonderful. So Kim. What do you have on the agenda for next week? We'll caroline. A lot of comparisons have been made between what we're dealing with right now with this corona virus, pandemic and the Spanish flu of nineteen eighteen. So for fun if you can call it that I thought it would be nice to go back in time, and about a murder mystery from that era, it happened in spokane at what is now known as one of the most haunted mansions in the city of Spokane. At at the time, it was bought by a doctor Rudolph on someone that people would dub the mad doctor of South Hill. Bothering you that story next week? I'm Carol Massaro with Kim. Shepard, and this is the scene of the crime.
Where is Mommy? The Susan Cox Powell Story
"Welcome to true crime. Recaps the only podcast bringing you all the crime in half the time with double the you're not gonna believe they shit your host the one you'd call. If you had to. Hi body, Amy Townsend when the killing stops. She's just getting started. Hey, girl. So I don't know about you. But when the oxygen channel said they were going to air the disappearance of Susan Cox Powell on may fourth and fifth. I was all it, but also super impatient and wanted to get the cliff notes Berge of this case right away. So I am assuming that you are just as impatient to hear murder details and home my God. You have got to hear this. This case starts in two thousand nine and basically continues in one way or another until twenty eighteen and I was oh m gene all the way through the time line. And I guarantee that you are going to freaking freak when you hear this. This case is seriously game of thrones level, crazy beyond Susan's disappearance. We've got her husband. Josh who everyone agrees is very strange from the beginning. We've got his totally fucked perverted father, Stephen who was obsessing. About Susan the entire time. She and his son were together, we are talking collecting her hair, stealing her underwear. Taking secret pictures of her and writing more than twenty three hundred pages about her in a freaking diary level of obsessing. Okay. We have a missing mother Susan, and we have the eventual murder suicide of Josh and their two little boys. Charlie in Brighton. Oh and Stevens eventual arrest for child pornography in a legal Boyer ISM. Oh, yeah. And another murder unrelated, but possibly related to the Powell family murders. But maybe not s-. I'd either way it's very strange, but let's get into this. Because I want to keep it within thirty minutes. We've got a lot to cover. All right here. We go. Let's go way back in time to nineteen Ninety-two. When Stephen and Terry Powell parents of one sixteen year old Josh Powell divorce and a bitter court battle drags, Josh and his four siblings. Jennifer, John, Michael and Alina through bitter court battles with Terry saying that Steven was abusive and showing Josh porn when he was a little kid and all manner of scumbag ary and for his part, Stephen was like, you're nuts. You once left the house in your underwear, which I mean what? But even if she did since when is that a crime as opposed to abusing your kid with violence and porn mean any case Terry had finally had enough and got out of this horrible twenty year marriage. But not before Josh killed his sister's gerbils, try. To hang himself and threatened her with a butcher knife. When she asked him to do the dishes eight years later in two thousand and one twenty five year old Josh met nineteen year old Susan at an LDS church event. Now for those of you who did not grow up in Utah, Idaho, or Washington LBS means Mormon because the Mormon church there Mormons may met impure wallop Washington and in two thousand and one they got married. Quick shout out to my single girls. A I know it's tempting to hear something like this and say even a fucking gerbil killer can find someone to marry him. And I can't and to you. I say he dies in the end, and you have much higher standards in gerbil Keller, and you will find someone that you won't eventually murder. So no, more negativity. Now at first Susan, Josh, we're happy they're holding hands hugging kissing each other. They appear to be the perfect couple, and how many frequent times that we heard that. And it's usually followed by until he killed her. And this is no exception. But we're not there yet. I we have to talk about what made them move from Washington to Utah now right after they got married, Josh and Susan were living with his father, Steven Powell. In puyallup. It was then that Stephen developed this obsessive infatuation with her and it didn't help that. They're all living in really close quarters together. Basically, he would follow her around the house with a fucking camcorder, which was usually trained on her or her chest or something and got a completely say it. He used a small mirror to spy on her while she used the bathroom he stole her under. Aware from her laundry. He read her journals and even kept a sex diary of his own and feel twenty three hundred pages with his fantasies about her and things he saw her doing. It's insanely sick in two thousand three he told her he wanted to fuck her and marry her. And of course, she was like, no, thank you. And when she told Josh about it. He basically said that she was making it all up, and exaggerating it and his dad said that she was coming onto him. And the whole thing is very hashtag metoo, except she couldn't exactly report the guy to human resources since it was her father in law. So instead she and Josh moved to west valley City, Utah to get away from him Josh's mother and sister, Jennifer lived in west valley city, so they had some family there and Josh had a business degree from university of Washington in Seattle, and he worked I. A lot of companies, but strangely he couldn't keep a job and Susan had a cosmetologist license, but she worked as a broker for Wells Fargo. She was basically the breadwinner, but Josh controlled her and the money to the point where we've for it. She wasn't even allowed to buy new socks. But instead Josh told her to knit them. Yeah. This is what a fucking crazy situation looks like, but we're gonna get there because there are so many W T f moments in this story. I try not to just scream them all out. And instead take this in chronological order, but don't worry gonna keep it to thirty minutes because you have got get off that stairmaster soon. Right fast for it. A couple of years to two thousand and five and Josh is getting worse and more controlling and Susan has got to be wondering just what? In hell, she is doing with this guy. But then she got pregnant for the first time, she went into labor with their son, Charlie and get this Josh told her to ask her parents to take her to the hospital because he had to finish something. I what was that? Something you ask and wittily the child's crib? Papery in the house in rose pedals for her return. No he had to back up his hard drive. He showed up at the hospital two hours later, despite this insane behaviour Susan didn't demand her parents start divorce proceedings on her behalf while she was busy giving birth. Instead, she Josh had another son. Brayden two years later in two thousand and seven also that same year. Josh vile for bankruptcy with over two hundred thousand dollars in debt. This guy was spending money like. Saddam hussein. And meanwhile, Susan had to get his permission just to use the family car and get this anytime he gave Susan money for like groceries. She had to look through a spreadsheet of adds to find the cheapest prices on things then when she went shopping she had to come home and enter every single item into that spreadsheet. And if she spent more than a couple of cents on a can of beans like more than what the coupon said it was worth Josh would yell at her and getting -gree. So, of course, her friends were like divorce him, but she was worried about what do you do to her and the kids if she tried to leave him mainly because he thought of the boys like his possessions and Susan taking away his things was not going to go over. Well, and it didn't as we'll see later in the story. But obviously Susan thank God was not a complete sister wife, and according to her. She is definitely thinking about divorce at this point, especially because his insane spending is really need her credit since he took out cards in her name and the knee max them out. So that two hundred thousand dollar debt is not just his it's Hearst to and the fact that it even exists is making it harder for her to try and get away from him and start a new life. So in July of two thousand eight Susan made a home video on the advice of a divorce lawyer. So that she could have a video record of the things Josh bought using her credit in case she needed that recording later, or if you tried to sell them, and she she wanted to file for divorce so along with that tape, she wrote a secret will that said, I want it documented that there is extreme turmoil in our marriage, and if I die it may not be an accident. Even if it looks like one. What girl please? If we can learn anything from Susan it is that if you're at the point of making secret wills and letting people know that if they come across your dead body, and it was definitely not an accident. You need to grab the kids. Grab your purse and go go to your parents house get on a greyhound go as far as your money will take you just go that is what Susan what tell us now. Because of course, as you can guess the next on our time line is the disappearance on the morning of December six two thousand nine Susan and her two sons went to church, Josh hadn't really been active in the church with them since like two thousand six at this point. He kind of goes in and out of church and a friend stop by her house to see her that afternoon, but Susan told her she wasn't feeling well and she needed to take. A nap apparently Josh who rarely cooked had made pancakes for dinner, and she was feeling ill and tired after eating them because they were fucking poisoned. Right. The next day, December seventh the daycare called Josh's mother and sister when the kids didn't get dropped off as usual. They couldn't get a hold of Susan or Josh. So the two women go to their house to see if anything was wrong, but no one is answering the door. So they called the police. The police broke into the house thinking, maybe the family had been victims of carbon monoxide poisoning or something like that. But no one was inside. But there were two large box vans blowing on a couch that felt damp to police. Josh said later that the couch had been cleaned before they went camping, and he was drying them with these fans. So that's totally bizarre. Again. Obvious. No one is in the house, but Susan's purse wallet and ide- where there and she didn't go into work that morning at later that day run five Josh comes back with the two boys. And he goes to the police station for questioning here's some audio from that interrogation. What do you think is out to her? I need to tell me what you think is over. On her own. I told you the dress. Few times jobs silent anything say can will be used against him. Quarter flow tech of just interview children. And your children telling ours tempers that with you last night. And it's you come back. Yeah. Probably about it for. As in your wife is missing job. But I want to think about it for a couple of days already everything culture you answer. So Josh claims that he left around midnight with his sons at that time they were four and two years old to go camping eighty five miles away from home in freezing temperatures and Susan was fine with that. And in fact, he claimed Susan had been sound asleep when they left she was probably asleep. But most likely in the trunk of his car the police found blood evidence on a tile floor near the dam sofa and forensic testing revealed the blood belong to Susan Josh was asked to submit his cellphone for forensic testing. But before he handed it over he secretly removed the sim card and activated a new phone in Tremont in Utah. It's like more than eighty miles away from where they lived K a little over a week after Susan SIS. Disappearance the police named Josh a person of interest. They seize the family minivan and found her so phone in the car he could not explain what it was doing there around that same time. Josh went to their Bank with a power of attorney form, and withdrew all of the money from Susan's IRA accounts. And he also cancelled her future, chiropractic appointments, which was actually quite conscientious of him. I mean, I can barely remember to cancel my appointments ahead of time much less canceling appointments for the people I've murdered. But of course, during all of this Josh kept claiming he had no idea where Susan was. And then about a year later, he suggested that she might have run off with a guy named Steve coacher. Now, there is no evidence that she even knew Steve. But weirdly, he went missing on December thirteenth after driving his car twenty one hundred mile. To Henderson Nevada and basically walked away from it and vanished into thin air Spokane crazy investigators later learnt both Josh and Susan had taken out one million dollar life insurance policies on themselves with two hundred fifty thousand dollar writers on each of their children. And that Josh been telling people that to get away with murder. He would hide a body in a mine shaft in the west desert of Utah about a month after Susan disappeared on January eighth twenty ten. Josh took the boys and officially moved back to you up to live with his father, again Joshua's, sister, Alina and his brother John also lived in the house with them. So you know, that's gonna go about as well as you would expect. This is a good place to talk a little bit more about Joshua's, totally fucked up dysfunctional family from hell, so let's th. Art with his father, Stephen a sick fuck to put it mildly. Take a listen to this video the oxygen channel put together talking about Stevens obsession with Susan. It's truly unbelievable. Steven Powell was narcissistic, very self absorbed out of touch with reality. He was under the impression that anytime. He was with Susan or sauces, and she was hitting on him that she was interested in him. He did that for me. Got a. He was infatuated with her worshiper just turns me on perpetual state of tournaments. She's around. Video her he would be inside of his band in video her walking to and from buildings. I had to get a picture of this tryst of useful back here is insecurity loan to. Evening in Susan too. Stevens obsessed with her Stephen had journals about her. Stephen had pitches per. Stephen Moore pictures of himself with her so. Probably do some pretty. Some people think through wayward. Here are the panties pick to Susan's artery. Smell. So nice. I think she's the most beautiful thing than ever want to yours progressive league. It's worse and worse and worse would line has had to this actually on her body. Somebody looked at this case. And they only looked Stephen Powell. Pretty sweating. I think they would be quick to say he was responsible for disappearance. And he didn't stop it. Susan. He also had pictures of the little girls who lived next door to him undressing. I mean, he was charged with fourteen counts of Boyer ISM. And one count of possessing an image of minors engaged in sexually explicit conduct. Anyone to jail for about seven years. He died of a heart attack in twenty eighteen about a year after he'd gotten out of jail. No after Stephen was arrested. Josh temporarily lost custody of his sons they were sent to live with Susan's parents Charles and Judy Cox. Although Josh was still allowed to have supervised visitations with them several times a week since that makes total sense. But before we get to that we have to talk a little more about the other members of Josh's family, his brother, John who was also living in the house had apparently been seen nude and wearing a diaper by. Social services on several occasions. He yeah, let that sink in for a second. And in his room social worker said he had a hangman's noose and gallows set up as well. As a poster of a woman with a sword in her genitals coming out of her stomach what a great environment for little boys in Josh's sister Alina who was also living. There always insisted that Josh was innocent this expert excerpt excuse me from a video she made to prove the innocence of her family is a good example of her bizarre denial and crazy brainwashed tone, the police arrested pollens timber twenty second in us that arrest is rationale to take Josh's children from him instigating, a kangaroo court custody battle that ultimately caused the death of my brother nephews. I noticed how she glosses over the fact that her brother took a hatchet to his kids, and then blew up their house in a double murder suicide. But before we get back to the main timeline, I have to tell you about Joshua's brother, Michael about a year after Josh killed his kids and himself. His brother Michael killed himself by leaping from a parking garage in Minneapolis where he was going to grad school police have been trying to link him to Susan's disappearance and said they believed he was heavily involved in disposing of her body sighting of flurry of calls between the brothers and encrypted messages. And apparently they had set up a fake Facebook account, and we're patrolling find Susan groups on Facebook to try and find out if people were maybe getting close to finding her and even planting stories about her like that she was mentally ill and she'd maybe run off with us Steve guy. So that's Michael, Jennifer Josh's. Other sister seems to be the only person in the family that's halfway normal. She even went to police an offer to wear it wired. See Josh or even her father Stephen would reveal anything about Susan that did not go well and Steven ended up jumping into defending Josh kicking Jennifer out of the house run girl run. So that is Joshua's family. Now, let's get back to the time. So it's February fifth two thousand twelve and just four days earlier, Josh lost another custody hearing to get his voice back. If you recall, they were taken out of his custody after his father got arrested for child pornography in twenty eleven and they've been living with Susan's parents and Joshua had supervised visits apparently police found some questionable images on some of Josh's computers in that raid, and he's had. To undergo some psycho valuations. Oh, and he's still a person of interest in his wife's disappearance. But. Yeah. Of course, you should be able to get his kids back. Right. Well, thank God. He couldn't. But unfortunately, he was still out to see them which brings us to that day. That'd be wary v a social worker at named Elizabeth Griffin hall had been taking the boys at this point. They're five and nine years old to visit Josh for the last three months. She gets to his house for a scheduled supervise. Visit the boys run ahead of our into the house. And by the time this social worker got to the front door. Josh had locked her out of the house. She said he caught my eye his shoulders were slumped. He had a sheepish look. He just shrugged his shoulders and slam the door. And right before he slammed the door in her face. She heard him say to the boys that he had a big surprise for them. Then she smelled gasoline and heard one of the boys crying. So she. Called nine one one. Here's how that call went. And I warn you you're going to want to fucking scream when you hear this. So of course, I had to play for you. Because I really wanted discuss this take a listen. Hey, I want to provide taken for quoted get that. And something really weird has happened. The kids went into the house in the parent, the biological parent whose name is Josh Powell will not let me in the door. What should I do dry? It's eight one one nine, and I think eighty nine I don't know what the idea. Working for me to know. I can't let me get my car, and I can. And find it. Nothing like this ever happened before. -cation? So I'm really. And I could hear one of the kids crying. But he still would want the end. Okay. It is. One. I have it here. Can't find me by. Okay. It is. It. That I hit I need help part away. On apparent FHFB's p p after been involved, and if the pace thing he looked tried out in the door. I just waiting to know where you are. Okay. Eight one one nine one eighty nine eight court to Alec ninety seven five. And I'm like to pull out of the driveway. Now, get the end. Wanna pull out of the driveway gasoline? But he won't let you won't let me in and move on to grab one in the house. Won't let me and to provide. Visit I understand how is it. Powell you don't live there right now. I know I'm fine. Talking to the state to divide to provide the Bettega. Okay. And who is there to exercise visitation? I am. And if it is with Powell. Who has been I who provide supervise Andrew doing the visit. I can provide I provide my stuff on fifth of is it here. Wait a minute. Supervised. Visit. You can't provide yourself. Typifies to provide. Okay. Well, aren't you the one the one making the visit or underpayment Super Bowl? I know the provides I picked up a hit the grandparents. And then who visit with the children. How? Okay. You to be there to supervise Josh Powell visit with the children that. And how to depend nipping towel Heiko. File. Hey, how did he how did he came to the children before you? I was one step in back of them. Okay. Okay. Yeah. At the door right in like, pay or your. My name is. Aw. Paul hyphenated. Yeah. Never. Phone number is three zero nine nine zero nine nine five five. And what with? Carrie network and the kids this been in there by now. Hen minute. And he knows. Visit to Brayden is five and Charlie seven. How W E L O U L L NFL. Yeah. Fake game is Dr. Why? Quite. I don't know about thirty nine. By Ken hundred and fifty pound. Color. On notice with wearing. I think that could you wearing. It alone. Or I don't know. I couldn't get in the house. Even the ical now or on I'm in the echo. I'm gonna Prea on. Ten prea-. That he won't have been opened the door him. I rang and everything. Let me on my question. What color is the Toyota Prius. They and the license number. I don't know. Seven five of the eight. Mary henry. Yeah. Somebody look for you there. Okay. How long will it be? I don't know, man. They have to respond to emergency life threatening situations. I the first available deputy. Life threatening. He went to court on one, Dan, he kids back, and this is really I'm afraid for their live threaten the life of the children previously. I have no idea. All right. The billable deputy contact you. Thank you. So that co- is about six minutes long locks show that it took eight minutes for that nine one one dispatcher to send a police car and another thirteen minutes for the police car to get to the scene by which time the house was already on fire the nine one one operator said later, quote, no one could have predicted. What happened quote, you know, who could have predicted what happened the person who fucking predicted what happened the cut Tim social worker? Elizabeth Griffin hall. So it's not an F that year in emergency situation and through some miracle you managed to call nine one one. But then you need to convince the person on the other end that you actually do need help. Why are I one one operators always such assholes? Of course, as we now know what was happening in the house while that nine one one call was going on was that Josh used to hatchet. To try and kill his two sons before nine cans of gasoline that he'd had preset around the house before they got there. Unfortunately, autopsy results later confirmed that he didn't kill them with the hatchet. Hey, just wounded them and smoke inhalation is what Benchley killed them. It was later discovered. How much planning Josh had put into this murder suicide a couple of days before their visit. He gave the kids toys to goodwill and a surveillance picture showed him withdrawing cash from an ATM the day before the murder suicide. Oh, he used the money to buy five gallon gas cans to set the house on fire and minutes before the fire. He said emails to his family and lawyer saying, I'm sorry goodbye. And in at least one Email he wrote that he couldn't live without his boys. So apparently, they shouldn't be allowed to live without him. Now Josh was never charged in connection with his wife's disappearance. And to this day Susan remains missing. Although in January of this year, a private search team plan to re examine an abandoned mine shaft in Utah's west as near the place where Josh said he took the boys camping in two thousand and nine when she disappeared. And over the years police have searched for hundred mineshafts in Utah, Nevada with no luck. And that's that. If he wanted dive deeper into this case, as I know you must want to and there's another podcast cult cold that did an entire season on the inside outs of this case, you can find it at the cold podcasts dot com. And in the meantime, ladies sleep with one eye open because it is always the husband until next week. We know you have a lot of murder Sasol's. Thanks for taking thirty minutes to catch up with two crime recounts. If you like to show, please show your support with five stars and written review. Let's keep the conversation going. Join us on the socials at true prime recaps. And while you're feeling chatty. Don't forget to tell your friends to listen to crime. Recaps. See you ex- Thursday.
Feb 5, 2012: The Powell Family Murders
"Before you listen to the next podcast how about a trip outside your comfort zone base jumping canyoneering mountain biking or maybe just outside your house wherever you go. The broncos sport is built wild with seven available goat modes that go over any type of terrain. Ronco sport is just as adventurous as you learn. More at ford dot com. Today is friday february fifth. Twenty twenty one on this day in twenty twelve five year. Old brayden powell and his brother. Charlie were senselessly murdered by their father. Who then ended his own life with a bullet. Welcome to today and true crime a spotify original from podcast due to the graphic nature of this crime listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of child abuse suicide and homicide that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen. Today we're covering the double murder of the powell boys who were attacked by their father during a weekly three hour custody visit gone wrong. Let's go back to the morning of february fifth. Twenty twelve just as the two. Young boys rose from their beds or the last time. seven year. Old charlie powell and his younger brother brayden had endured a hard few years for two children's still making sense of the world in two thousand nine their mom. Susan mysteriously disappeared. The police susan's family and much of the general public believed. Her husband was to blame naturally. The sudden loss and public scrutiny altered. The boy's lives forever with their father deemed unfit to raise them himself. They were sent to susan's parents house where they lived ever. Since that fateful morning raided and charlie stirred in their respective beds sheets were decorated with graphics from the disney movie cars while charlie slept in a spiderman themed comforter. They tumbled out of bed and headed to the kitchen for breakfast with bellies soon full of cereal and fruit. The young boys prepared for an eventful sunday. They were always excited to spend time their father joshua powell for their part susan's parents. The caucuses never liked their son in law. But after susan's disappearance the animosity became unbearable. The families had entered into kind of cold war with joshua clinging to the weekly visitation time. He had with charlie and brayden but the week prior joshua was court ordered to undertake psycho sexual evaluation after disturbing child pornography was found in the home where he and his children had been living with his father. Steven powell in september twenty eleven stephen had been arrested for voyeurism and child pornography. Joshua himself was listed as one of stephen's victims investigators. Now believe that joshua knew he wouldn't pass the test and would lose total custody of his children. Joshua was incredibly possessive of his children and couldn't stand the thought of losing all control over the situation around eleven thirty. Am brayden and charlie waved goodbye to their grandpa chuck cox as he headed off to church shortly after their social worker. Elizabeth griffin hall pulled up to the cox residence and the two boys piled into the backseat. Their lively chatter always kept the car ride interesting. Elizabeth took note of charlie's increasing interest in bugs. They seem to open up around her treating her with a warmth otherwise reserved for close family members. They pulled up to their father's small home in pierce county washington through the window. Joshua powell peered at the car and smiled to himself soon. The young boys would be all his. He rushed to his computer and typed one email to his attorney before opening the door to his three guests. It's only contents. I'm sorry goodbye. Joshua welcomed his sons in and looked at elizabeth sheepishly before slamming the door and locking her out of the house through the door. She heard him tell his sons. I have a big surprise for you. Hanoch elizabeth dialed nine one one. She knew the boys were endanger dispatcher. Seemed to doubt the severity of the emergency as she waited for the police. She started smelling gasoline. What happened next. Was grotesque and haunting. Elizabeth watched helplessly as flames began growing in the windows. The house was soon engulfed in flames burning from the inside out inside the house. Josh lunged at his sons with a hatchet as the house exploded. Three gunshots resounded brayden charlie. And they're heartless father dead coming up. We'll explore the events that preceded these tragic deaths. It's vanessa from park cast. They say there's someone for everyone. A soul to share your secrets with a companion to grow old width conspirator to commit crimes. With starting this february on spotify learn about the lethal legendary lovers who fought the law in the park has limited series criminal couples. If you've ever referred to your best friend or beloved as your partner in crime this exclusive series is for you beginning february. I join me for a collection of unlawful love. Stories from shows across the park parkas network discovered the extreme beliefs of cult leaders. Tony and susan allama enter. Fred and rose west's real life house of horrors and experience the madness and motives of the san francisco which killers fall for the most famous and feared pairs in history in the spotify original from podcast. Criminal couples. enjoy two part episodes every monday. Starting february i follow criminal couples. Free and exclusively on spotify. This episode is brought to you by university of maryland. Global campus. Get a fresh start toward the future. You want with the credentials. You need by earning a degree or certificate online from university of maryland global campus. You g c has over ninety degrees specializations and certificates in career relevant programs. That means you. Mdc is ready to help you take the next step. Whether you're continuing your education and just getting started working toward your goals you C offers an accredited state university education online courses that worked with your schedule. Virtual advising and lifetime career resources to guide you along the way and even no cost digital materials replacing most books. You know where you want to go you. Jay can help you get there. Take your first step at you. Jc dot edu slash podcast. That's you. I'm jay c dot edu slash. Podcast now back to the story. My february sixth twenty twelve josh powell's residents had been reduced to a pile of rubble. Kalisa investigators found the hatchet that joshua used to hurt his children in their final moments. They also conducted an autopsy on charlie and brayden concluding that their cause of death was carbon monoxide poisoning. One can only hope that the boys were rendered unconscious before their father killed them in the days that followed the two boys were mourned by their social worker. Their mother's family and the public at large they've been in. The public is since their mother disappeared in december. Two thousand nine and while the details of that story are still murky. Information came to light in the wake of the boy's murder before susan's death. The powell family was struggling for a multitude of reasons. One of them. Being that joshua powell's father steven had developed sexual and romantic feelings for his daughter in law. Susan attempted to dismiss his father and move her family further away from him. But stephen was the least of our problems in a secret. Will she drafted susan wrote. I want it documented that there is extreme turmoil in our marriage. And if i die it may not be an accident. Even if it looks like one susan's will ended up to be sadly prophetic well. After midnight on december. Sixth two thousand. Nine joshua powell packed his boys into the family car and brought them to topaz mountain one of his regular camping spots. Except it wasn't a normal trip by all accounts. The sudden excursion was of the blue and they were gone for long enough to arouse suspicion when the boys didn't show up a daycare that monday joshua's mom and sister were contacted worried that something might have gone awry. They sought the help of police. Who entered the powell family home there. They found two box fans aimed at a wet spot on the ground. That had recently been cleaned. When the powell's returned home sense susan. The police brought him in for questioning. He insisted that she'd been cleaning the floor before he left with the children and expressed fears that she'd run away but when the boys spoke with authorities. They painted a much different picture. Charlie told them that his mother had come along for the adventure and had been left where the crystals are police wondered if susan's body had been stowed in a rock mine. This was further corroborated by statements from joshua's co workers that he discussed how a mind would be a good place to dispose of a body. At one point young brayden even drew a photo of his family in their minivan on the night of the camping trip. When asked why he didn't draw his mother braiden said that she was in the truck over time. The boys began talking more about the circumstances surrounding their mother's disappearance which might have been another catalyst for joshua's violent end a year later in twenty thirteen joshua's brother michael also died of suicide. It's thought that he may have helped joshua dispose of susan's body. Susan's family was awarded. Ninety eight million dollars in july twenty. Twenty for the deaths of brandon and charlie but the tragedy echoes on a cautionary tale of untreated psychosis and trauma. Hopefully talking about these root causes and warning can keep the cycle from repeating elsewhere. Thanks for listening to today in true. Crime i'm vanessa. Richardson today in true. Crime is a spotify original from podcast. You can find more episodes of today in true crime and all other spotify originals. From podcast for free on spotify. We'll be back with a brand new episode tomorrow in true crime today in. True crime is a spotify original. From podcast it executive produced by max cutler sound designed by juan boorda with production. Assistance by ron shapiro. Carly madden and bruce kovic. This episode of today in true crime was written by laurence lil with writing assistance by aaron lamb and fact checking by cheyenne lopez. I'm vanessa richardson. Hi it's vanessa again before you go. Don't forget to check out the new podcast. Limited series criminal couples from apocalyptic cult leaders to bank robbing bandits to married mafiosos. These couples give new meaning to till death. Do us part enjoy two part episodes every monday. Starting february i follow criminal couples. Free ad exclusively on spotify.
Youth-led Sunrise Movement calls for national job guarantee
"Dr anthony leiserowitz and this is climate connections. Elected officials are grappling with plenty of issues. Climate change unemployment in equality and more but some young activists say that these urgent crises are best solved together. The only way that we're gonna get our country to one hundred. Renewable energy is if we do things like retrofit buildings or update our infrastructure or install solar panels. And not take jobs. Deja powell is the mid west lead organizer with the sunrise movement. A youth activist group. Sunrise activists are calling for a national program. That would guarantee a job to anyone who wants one. Powell says that such a program would help build the labor force needed to transition the country from fossil fuels to clean energy and she says it would create opportunities for people in communities that have lacked jobs and investment for generations so it could help address systemic racism and economic inequality as a young black girl who grew up on the south side in south suburbs of chicago. I think about my family. And i think about my friends and i think we have some of the highest unemployment rates in a city like chicago and it means having opportunities so the sun rights movement is calling for solutions that address the climate crisis and social justice Climate connections is produced by the for environmental communication to hear more stories like this visit. Climate connections dot org.
Bud Powell born - September 27, 1924
"This episode is brought to you by the Rolling Stone Charts Rolling Stone as the definitive outlet for all things music bringing you the latest news interviews and reviews rolling stone is your go-to source to learn everything about groundbreaking breaking artists and now rolling stone is going even further to show you what it means to be on the rise introducing the rolling. Stone Charts and interactive set music charts that offer an in-depth in the moment view of the biggest songs songs albums and artists in music the rolling stone charts are the definitive guide for trending breaking in popular music in the age of streaming his at rolling stone dot com slash charts or search. Rs Charts the day in history class is a production of iheartradio Hi. I'm eve and welcome to this day in history class. A show that uncovers a little bit more about history every day. Today is September twenty seventh two thousand nineteen. The Day was September twenty seventh nineteen twenty four URL Rudolph it off. Powell better known as Powell was born in New York City Powell was instrumental in the development of modern jazz music though he died when he was just forty one years old his accomplishments as a jazz soloist greatly contributed to the growth of bebop musical talent ran in Powell's family. His grandfather father and siblings were all musicians. His father was a stride pianist. Stride was a jazz piano style that developed developed as the popularity of ragtime was dying down stride pianist play the melody with the right hand while the left hand alternates between a single. I note and a quarter played an active or more higher. The left hand had to go greater distances on the keyboard often very quickly and improvisation. It was more important than it had previously been when Powell was a child. His father began teaching him classical music at age fifteen he dropped out of Dewitt wit Clinton High School to pursue his passion playing the piano he began playing at clubs in Coney Island and Harlem in the Mid Nineteen Forties Powell met the loneliest monk jazz pianist and composer at Minton's playhouse in Harlem and monk became a mentor to him. Powell became a regular feature at Minton's playhouse known for its role in the development of modern jazz and jam sessions with people like Charlie Parker Dizzy Gillespie and Kenny Clarke how also toward and record it with trumpeter Kuni Williams's orchestra he recorded with Tenor Saxophonist Dexter Gordon and he played on Charlie Parker's Savoy sessions he recorded the five volume the amazing Bud Powell in the nineteen forties and nineteen fifties influenced by art tatum Charlie Parker Billie Kyle and thelonious monk how emerged as a leading figure and bebop he found a lot of success as a pianist though black audiences were not initially completely receptive to modern jazz in the nineteen forties still how how faced physical and mental struggles he spent time in a psychiatric hospital from nineteen forty seven to nineteen forty eight after getting in a fight at a Bar at a state hospital. He received electroconvulsive therapy after he was released from the hospital. He was placed in convalescent care. which was it's basically parole how return to music but he spent a lot of time from nineteen fifty one to nineteen fifty-three institutionalized after he was arrested stood on a drug charge in February of Nineteen fifty three the state of New York declared him incompetent and incapable of handling his own money Oscar Goodstein Powell's manager and owner of Berlin nightclub became his committee and began managing money? Good esteem got POW steady steady work but how was still struggling with his mental health. His relationships with his colleagues were deteriorating in the late nineteen fifties after spending more time in the hospital how moved to Paris with al-tv Edwards and he soon began playing in France and touring throughout Europe Edwards and a Fran Dan Frantz these padre looked out for POW while in Europe but he was deeply affected by his alcoholism mental illness and medication in nineteen in sixty three he contracted Berko says back in New York musicians put together a benefit concert to help him with medical expenses in nineteen sixty four or he moved back to the US he continued to play the piano and his return was celebrated though his performances did not get rave reviews so his music suffered as his health declined and he missed some of his performances on July thirty first nineteen sixty six he died died of health complications his pioneering work in bebop continued to influence later musicians like Bill Evans see so Taylor and Horace Silver Silver. I'm Eve's coat and hopefully you know a little more about history today than you did yesterday. If you have any burning questions or comments to tell ls you can find us on twitter instagram and facebook at t the I H podcast thank you for joining me today. See You same place same time tomorrow. For more podcasts from iheartradio visit the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows in this episode is brought to you by the Rolling Stone Charts Rolling Stone as the definitive outlet for all things music bringing you the latest news interviews and reviews rolling stone is your go-to source to learn everything about groundbreaking groundbreaking artists and now rolling stone is going even further to show you what it means to be on the rise introducing the rolling Stone Charts and Interactive Seta Music Charts that offer an in-depth in the moment view of the biggest songs albums and artists in Usak Rolling Stone Charts are the definitive guide for trending breaking popular music and the age of streaming is at rolling stone dot com slash charts or search R._S. Charts.
Ep. 13: 4theKidzz
"This podcast discusses domestic violence criminal behavior. Murder and adult themes while not explicit. Listener discretion is advised. Dave lyndale is a bit of a fixture in the city of Pendleton. His dad bought a small auto shop in the eastern Oregon community in nineteen sixty three lyndale auto has been in the family ever since automotive recycling. Auto parts, you know, scrapping towing type business. We do a variety of things with cars, and we tell some used cars the window auto lot sits on the east side of town. Just north of the U Mattila river lyndale lane a street bearing the family name runs along the other side. People in Pendleton. No, Dave, he's where they go in their cars breakdown beyond repair. So it wasn't strange. When a guy showed up at Dave's. Shop looking to sell a nineteen Ninety-seven Ford Taurus on December twenty third of two thousand and nine I don't remember the circumstance except that fellow call me up out of the blue which happens on a regular basis and said, I want to sell a car as as yeah, we buy cars, and he came out in the car was and I remember when I bought vaguely that I thought well, it's a little nicer than what people wanna get sold as for the guy nothing really stood out about him. But I don't know what maybe thirty something young thirties something like that. Like you had a job. How like he, you know, was probably. You know, had some responsibilities and needed to get somewhere in a hurry. Dave looked over the car. It was twelve years old at that point. But appeared to be in pretty good shape is supposed to have the having transmission problems or something that nature, and I don't remember how the negotiation even wetter what I paid for. But it was probably. Two or three or four hundred dollars in that neighborhood. Actually, it was less Dave paid just one hundred bucks, then took the title and hauled the car onto his lot. Most cars didn't stay there for very long. He'd stripped the good parts, sell those then send the rest of the wreck to be smashed into a cube that Taurus, though, stuck around time went by we sold a few parts off the car the tail lights went. So did the front passenger door and pieces of the steering column? It was a common enough model of car and in good enough shape that the parts held their value. Then on September. Twentieth of two thousand eleven Justice Pierce county, deputies were preparing to arrest. Steve Powell Dave received an unexpected visit from police not the locals these cops had come all the way up from Utah. They wanted to know about the car he bought from Michael Powell, I remember the time thing is a little odd. Because I have a neighbor right behind me that has a car. Shop named Mike Powell Michael Powell's is real name. We do business with him on a daily basis that shop is called. Mike's auto clinic Dave turned to his staff to ask if they remembered buying a Ford Taurus from the auto clinic, they shrugged Mundell told detective, David Greco. He must have bought it since he bought cars from Mike Powell all the time. And they looked at me kind of. So, you know, Michael Powell, I remember him saying that I said, well, my neighbor Mike Powell there was a moment of confusion on both sides Mandel tried to. Out why these detectives from two states away. We're so interested in an old rack we dug up the paperwork, which is pretty easy. They gave me the VIN number went back by the number pulled the file and the car, and I could see where the paperwork could come from what it was. And then I started picture together in my head that. This was to do that, Michael. This is cold episode thirteen for the kids. I'm Dave collie back after this. Do you ever feel like it just needs some support to get really healthy? Hi, I'm Scott Mitchell. I'm Melanie Douglas. I'm on a journey to find lasting hell to my everyday life. And I here to help we'll find fun doable. Ways to improve your health who small and simple changes. It's the really healthy podcast. Subscribe for free on itunes or the KSL News Radio app. Ever wonder what it's like to face a three hundred fifty pound lineman who wants to Spanish you into the ground. I don't know what that feels like Scott Mitchell here, I want to tell you about my podcast helmets off who I talk about the pressures of being an NFL quarterback some of the other pressures pro athletes face when the helmet is off. It's a podcast and you can get it free on Google play apple podcasts and at KSL sports dot com. Powell had sold his car for one hundred dollars to a scrap yard just two weeks after Susan's disappearance an Intel analysts of ours was fairly phenomenal until analyst. She came across this information and got it right to us detective Ellis Maxwell wanted that car. His timing was impeccable. Dave lyndale had just filed paperwork with the state of Oregon to have the car destroyed. In fact, that probably told the guys at the time. I think that if they'd come probably another three months later wouldn't have been there. Dave told the police they were welcomed go look at the car. He told me bring it cadaver dog in. Which they did the police went out to the scrap yard with the dog. Noah's told me this was a tricky situation. A lot of cars that end up in junkyards have been involved in injury crashes. So you're gonna have you know, blood and stuff like that in these vehicles. And this dog went directly didn't hesitate didn't stop at any other vehicles went directly to Michael pals vehicle, the dogs sniffed around the car then sat down next to the trunk. That was what the dog was trained to do when it got a hit detective Greco returned to the office. And they said they got a hit on it. And then they said, well, we're going to load that car up and take it back to Utah. And I'm like what because it was like I was really kinda shocked by the whole thing the west valley cops came back the next day. They wrapped the tours in plastic and loaded it onto a tow truck had figure out what's going on. So I called our police chief and says so can they just take this cars as yet? They yet. You gotta give them that car. Just. Like that Michael Powell's car was gone. Dave Lindell was left with nothing, but the money he'd made on a few parts and bizarre story. I guess that's what I got David followed the case of Susan Powell in the news. He'd seen the coverage a few weeks prior when police had served search warrants Steve Powell's home, but Dave never could have guessed that key piece of evidence in the case sat on his property for almost two years at a never really feel about Pendleton in that connection and this guy stop and half. I guess he stopped halfway to dump cars so to speak halfway between west valley City, Utah and Puyallup, Washington. When I first contacted, Dave he seemed Justice apprised to hear from me has from police. In fact, he told me I wondered how long it would be before. Someone looked me up. Dave had never told his story to anyone other than a few close friends and some colleagues in the auto wrecking business. I didn't really let it be known. I mean, I thought well, maybe my local newspaper be interested in that information. But I thought it looked like you're just trying to get you know, I don't really want attention about the thing. And I thought well has this weird connection to this huge story in a way? But it's probably not something that really needs talked about a bunch. It seemed odd today that Michael had so quickly accepted his initial low ball offer. He might have thought he was telling somebody just run it down there and squish it right away. Once the car was back in Utah west valley. Police tore out the rear seats and trunk carpet. They swabbed them for DNA. They also found strands of hair, they sent the swabs. And the hair to Utah's state crime lab, again, we thought it was a huge break Ellis figured it could mean game over for Josh. They would finally have the forensic evidence. They needed for in. Arrest? Charlie Powell started first grade at Carson elementary in the fall of two thousand eleven the school year wasn't far long when Charlie suddenly missed a string of days starting on September twenty third the day after his grandpa Steve's arrest Carson elementary records listed that absence as being due to a family emergency, Charlie and Brayden had both been taken into protective custody. When he returned to school at the end of the next week. He was under the care of his maternal, grandparents. Chuck and Judy Cox is one social worker put we were repainting them. We talked them things like sharing. Taking turns instead of just grabbing first off I mean. Oh, preschoolers will grab herself. But the parents teach them to take turns Chuck and Judy were retirees they hadn't had young kids in the house for years. The Cox's had anticipated one day getting custody of the boys and worried about not having enough room in their house, but you'd raise for girls. So as this is the price to you to have suddenly these really wild. Yeah. It was it was it was a challenge. It was a challenge definitely girls and boys are totally different especially in in aggressiveness. And just. Yeah. That remodel was continuing. When the boys landed with the Cox's at the start of October. So things were a bit cramped. The addition was all framed in but the new bedroom still needed a lot of work this this would have been their bedroom. So we would have had plenty of room. For two bunk beds in here too, bad single beds and and a play place for him to play a little bit. And you know, TV is so we made it so it would be a kind of a nice place for both of them. But Chuck and Judy also knew they weren't at a point in their lives where they could raise six and four year old boys into adulthood, let's better for them to be with a family to they knew with the brothers and sisters, and they would have learned more about social in her action and everything in a normal life in the nearly two years since Susan's disappearance, the Cox's had grown close with Josh's. Estranged sister. Jennifer and her husband Kirk together, they had mapped out a plan in which Jennifer and Kirk would eventually adopt. The boys will we got full custody of them. Then we would notify the court of our plans and get things going and explain why and let the sold out, but all the professionals agreed that this would be a good thing before we did it and then. So we won't pull it anything on anybody. We were going to go forward with a lot of trauma and just bringing them into our homes would have created waves for my own family. And I and we knew that we knew that. And we were afraid in some respects of that of what that was going to look like, but we were willing to do it. Because we knew that they couldn't stay where they were. And we were their best chance of healing. And being in a in a loving family situation. The fact that Steve Powell's arrest not Josh's was what put Charley and Brayden in the Cox house threw a wrench into the cogs. So too did Josh's mom. Josh had asked his family everybody. But Steve and Jennifer to file declarations with the court supporting his fight for custody. Jennifer, begged her mom not to go along with it. But Terry sided with her son in her declaration. She wrote Josh was a loving and engaged father. She said Charlie in Brayden seemed to be thriving with him in spite of the trauma and sadness surrounding their mother's disappearance. Jennifer was crushed. I wanted them to get out of that situation and not continue to perpetuate this violent cycle that was continuing through my family. And I wanted them to to be able to have a a normal loving family relationship and as much as possible, you know, they wouldn't go forward to their mother or their father not that their father was being a good father. But they they were going to go forward is out that, but they could have something they could go forward and do some. Healing. But first few family meals with Charlie and Brayden at the Cox house were telling the grabbed for anything on the table showing no manners. Chuck said they'd learned to fend for themselves while living with Josh and his siblings. They would fix for them. And the kids got something that got the scraps at the end of the table, if the wolf pack and the the leaders eight I and that was Joshua's down his brother and stuff. There's something for the kids. Good. If there wasn't a well, you're just hungry. The boys were used to staying up until eleven o'clock or midnight. They told their grandparents they slept in the nude sometimes with their father. That revelation caused real concern there is obviously something there so sexual abuse going on in who knows what else was going on. Because we we were just starting to scratch that surface. We made them wear pajamas to bed, or at least underwear they slept sleep in their own beds. And they take about individually because I heard his blood flow blood in one of one of the other was head underwater. Trying to drown them in the bathtub, and no we're not doing that. Josh meantime, worked to undermine the caucuses he insisted charleen. Brayden not take part in any church activities that included the boy scouts or family home evening. A program that encourages latter day saints to spend Monday evenings together with their families. Josh started mailing letters daily right to the Cox house the state. Social workers told him that was not appropriate. They wanted the letter sent to them first. So they could be reviewed. Josh complied, but said his sons emotional wellbeing dependent on their receiving reassurance. From him every single day. It wasn't unusual for James Manley to receive calls from the Washington children's administration his work as a forensic psychologist meant he dealt with a lot of cases involving crimes against children. He didn't think much of it when he took a call from a state social worker in the fall of two thousand and eleven the social worker asked if he knew anything about a woman named Susan Powell and given my workload. And what I do for a living. I blithely responded. No. And I really didn't know about Susan great. That was exactly what the social worker wanted to hear. Washington law required the social workers to work toward reunification unless there was a good reason not to they wanted James Manley to find out if any such reason existed one of the reasons pick me because I really didn't have any background in it. And I wasn't following the case or anything like that this date higher James to put Josh through. What's known as a psychological evaluation for parenting capacity that involved a review of his personal history is education, his home life is work and criminal background as well. As a battery of clinical tests and one on one interviews social workers sent James a pile of paperwork. It included news clippings about the Susan Powell disappearance. There were court documents both from Steve Powell's recent arrest as well as Steve and Terry Powell's divorce back in the nineties. They also handed over their own reports detailing all of the interactions social workers had had with the Powell family over the previous twenty one months. James did his homework. He studied all of those reports and toward the end of October. He sat down with Josh for a formal interview from star. It was a unique evaluation. I've done several hundred of these and Mr. pal presented as very down-home guy with jeans and pledged shirt he was understated and very low key. But also defensive and given the history of he and Susan and all those sort of proceedings it made sense that he was defensive these were the questions James needed to answer. Could Josh safely parent his sons could he disengage from his family, especially his dad did he have any mental illness would he benefit from counseling? Could he correct any bad behaviors? As a kicker the state wanted to know if Josh had trouble with forthrightness. In other words, was he trying to hide the truth? He certainly was dodgy in the interview. And of course, I'm there to ask him questions about uncomfortable circumstances as they spoke James noted how Josh used subtle word choices to evade his questions. He was fairly polished but fairly. Superficial in his responses. Josh glossed over any topic that might cast him in a bad light like the stuff from his parents divorce papers, he denied ever having been physical with his mom or sisters. He said he had never attempted suicide. James challenged that showing Josh the court declarations about his teenage suicide attempt Josh brushed it off saying stuff got blown out of proportion because of the divorce. Anyway, he said it had been so long ago. He couldn't remember the specifics as far as James could tell Josh had an excellent memory. They talked about Josh's dating history. He mentioned Catherine the girlfriend he had lived with for six months before meeting and marrying Susan Josh said their relationship had ended because Catherine had dated other people behind his back. Of course, that's not how Catherine and her now husband Dennis described her time with Josh when we spoke he only wanted me to have him. He was okay with me talking to my family on the phone, but other than that, it was just he just wanted it to be him and his family. And that was that was basically it. I think a lot of things she spent years just kind of blocking out from her memory James asked Josh about his criminal history, not the stuff involving Susan. But instead something that had happened. When Josh was a boy Josh said, he had never been in trouble as a teen. Again, James pressed come to think of it Josh said he'd once been arrested for stealing candy from a burned-out convenience store. Candy James challenged that Josh conceded. It wasn't candy. He had stolen. It was playboy magazine's and he had spent five days in juvie for the crime. James asked if pornography was still a part of Josh's life. Josh said, he sometimes looked at porn online. But always check for a legal disclaimer to make sure the women involved were adults. Josh said he didn't use any drugs in hand even touched alcohol since nineteen ninety eight generally in my role, you absorb rather than share. It's not a counseling thing we go back and forth. You just s questions gathering information. James's job was narrowly defined by the state. He wasn't there to solve Susan's disappearance. But it did come up because how could it not Josh's answers seemed well, polished, of course, he had probably much more experienced than I talking about his wife's disappearance and those related topics. Those related topics included Josh's winter camping trip with the boys the night, Susan disappeared. James figured that. Part of the story did have a direct bearing on Josh's parenting abilities, the more it was with Josh the more recognized that he did not see any wrongdoing of what he what was going on in Utah, whether or not he acted inappropriately in what he described as his camping trip in December from the house on the evening that Susan disappeared in Josh's view, everything wrong with his life could be attributed to Chuck Cox and his former religion he was particularly negative towards his past in-laws. Few kinda went on about it. And almost in a. Grossly misguided manner approaching delusions, you know, about the the plots the Mormons against him and so forth. These kind of conspiracy type theories, which really didn't have a lot of basis the psychological tests reinforced what James heard with his own years. Josh did not seem capable of seeing anything about himself as wrong. He had traced the narcissism of which is the perfect self the idea of a narcissist as they do not have the ability to see themselves as flawed just won't won't happen. Jeans later came to believe the Josh's narcissism extended to the boys. And so what that means is it's like little Josh one little Josh to and non my sons James was able to observe Josh with Charlie and Brayden on a couple of occasions he sat in on one. Visit the day before Halloween. A few days later, he went to check out Josh's new place. The judge had told Josh he couldn't have the boys for overnight visits unless he moved out of Steve's home. So Josh rented a three bedroom house on a quiet cul de sac in the community of Graham, not far from Charlie's school. Meanwhile, the boys I believe it was the first time there. So they were scampering around checking out the house and stuff. Josh showed the kids around talking about all the fun. They would have together there he'd unpacked their toys onto shelves in one of the bedrooms. The garage was still full of clutter, including moving boxes still waiting to be unpacked James noticed a set of shelves against a back wall. And on the shows were two or three roll foam roll up backpacking pads at you sleep on brand new. And so when he brought the boys back from the garage into the living room assist cbo's. Here's the pads. He made sure I was watching. Here's the pads that will use next time we go camping. And I thought that was pretty interesting. And of course, I thought well that has to do with Susan that has to do with faking, you know, whatever he was trying to do. Josh took out a pair of remote control, toy helicopters and showed Charlie and Brayden how to fly them as flying around. And and he he was patient with the boys. So when the lights are on dad's acting the good dad, but when the lights weren't on different story Nancy from the precious stone in gym club. In Puyallup wrote a letter to the lead social worker forest Jacobsen. I had read about people saying what a great dad Josh is. And this is all just unwarranted. And and I'm like, he's not a great, dad. No way is he a great dog. So I had to say something. And that's when I contacted DS HHS draw she'd been bringing his boys to the club meetings for a year. Nancy was then vice president and head observed how Josh treated the boys. She'd watched one time, Josh and Charlie were using a rock grinder. Josh couldn't keep an eye on Brayden at the same time. So he left. Brayden alone in a corner rate and wailed for over an hour. He was perfectly fine. It was like his other son wasn't even there. He was working on the machine was Charlie and Braden was in sobbing crying. Finally, someone confronted Josh and told him to comfort his crying child and then Josh went over and patted him and said, well, you know, sometimes we just need to let them cry. And i'm. Thinking. No, we don't that's not how you parent. You don't just let them cry. Nancy said Josh had brought the boys out on field trips. Even though she'd hold him. They were not safe for young children at this point. He was fully aware that he wasn't supposed to be taking the kids on certain field trips. And then he liked glazed over and he started talking about their boots. Any goes they lost their boots. I can't find their boots they're lost. And it was like he was thinking his eyes looked really concerned like where did I lose boots some in my head? I'm thinking maybe in Utah, maybe down in the snow somewhere as what I was thinking. So that gave me the creeps. The boys were constantly getting into mischief Nancy said Josh only seemed to care when they talked to someone out of his earshot that once I saw that. It was Brayden. He went up to a coffee pot that the spout hung over the counter, and he went up and almost turned hot coffee on his face. And his dad was just oblivious to it. Josh wanted the court to believe he was a great dad Nancy thought, it was an act one that could not last. There's no way there's no way they can normal. Not all the time. You can't can't pull that veil over and expected to stay there. It's impossible. In early November, James Manley and DS HS decided Joshua's Newhouse would be an okay place for Joshua's supervised Sunday visits with the boys. Previously those visits had taken place at a neutral third party facility. It was just crazy. And I know why they did it it's because other parents facilities complained 'cause they weren't comfortable because Josh was there. So that's why they turn around like. Okay. Well, I guess they can go to his house. And it's you know, it's nuts. Josh wasn't supposed to have anyone else over at the time of the visits. But Alina always seemed to be just leaving the house or dropping by with salad dressing when the visitation supervisor showed up with Charlie and Brayden with the boys out of Josh's control Ellis Maxwell believed the police had time on their side in mid-november Ellis told social worker rocky Stevenson that they had found incestuous cartoon. Images on one of Josh's computers. One of the ones taken from the Sarah circle house way back in December of two thousand and nine or go was to say, look, you know, Josh doesn't have the kids. He hasn't had them for some time. The caucuses have them clearly we can see a positive change in children's behavior over the course of that time. This is something we discovered early in our investigation, and we would like you to take it into consideration of win. You take into consideration of releasing these kids back to Josh. But there was a problem. All of the evidence gathered in west valley's investigation remained under a court CO in Utah LS couldn't just hand it over without first getting a judge's permission. Because it is contraband it is illegal. I can't just manufacturer a copy because that's illegal and then give it to the authorities in Washington, the Utah judge set a condition on release of those images to Washington state. It couldn't happen unless it appeared. Washington was about to return the boys to Josh. But Ellis wasn't able to tell the social workers that at the end of November the Washington children's administration decided any claims against Josh of negligence or maltreatment of the boys were unfounded. That launched what's known as a dependency action which would allow Josh to get the boys back so long as he followed all of the court's instructions. The Washington social workers tried to pump the brakes expecting they would receive those images from west valley any day. They didn't realize the pictures weren't coming without those images. The social workers figured they would have to return Charlie and braid into their father by no later than mid January of two thousand and twelve Washington didn't provide that piece of information to west valley. Police. As a precondition for reunification, a judge told Josh he and the boys needed to get counseling, the counselor. They chose had no idea. What was coming? During her first session with Josh. He went on a rant about the caucuses the counselor. Brought in the boys Josh told them in front of the counselor that grandpa was in trouble because of the Mormon police if the Mormon police had their way Josh said, they would arrest him too. A judge had explicitly told Josh he was not supposed to talk about this. During another session, the counselor asked Charlie to draw a picture of a happy time. Charlie went to work with a crayon. He sketched three human figures to stood together within a circle smiling. Charlie crossed them out with an x and wrote the words don't play with me. The third figure was alone in another circle and appeared to be on the ground as if dead. The boys are talking about their mother. Now, the boys are finding words the boys have said things like daddy's a bad man, Charlie had said, Chuck Cox was a bad person. And I said all why would you say that? Well, daddy, says Jaycox Jaycox's dad's gonna get rid of Chuck Cox on this kind of stuff as I said, my Chuck Cox. No, you're not your grandpa. Chuck also told social worker forest Jacobson about a time in two thousand and ten when Brayden had drawn a picture of camping at daycare. Brayden had told a staff member at the daycare. That his mommy was in the trunk Charlie had said something about Mormon police or whatever if he said anything like that. I would say really have you ever seen one of these police? We'll know who told you about police will daddy. Okay. Can you tell me think about will know, they're just, you know, there was just something that was said that he was supposed to say in repeat, and he didn't know what they were in the social workers made weekly visits to the Cox house. Their notes showed the boys were adjusting well to their new surroundings to the social workers who saw them getting in psalm once a week. It was watching time lapse photography of the of the kids in their their improvements in their self esteem and their health and their everything was so much each one is like, wow, hey, these almost normal kids now Tammy foreman who had been Charlie's kindergarten teacher. At Carson elementary could see the progress to when she'd see him in the hallways. A lot more friendly toward me, even though it wasn't in my class anymore. Once he lived with his grandparents he would say Hello to me and be a lot more outgoing thanksgiving. Jennifer and Kirk James as well as Debbie Caldwell the boys daycare provider back in Utah traveled to Washington to spend time with Charlie and Brayden we were talking. So what about people they knew back in Utah and the kids all I can remember those people now. Oh, yeah. That was a good time. We liked that. So it was a part that who has been taken away from them. Debbie had already spoken her mind to the social workers. So I called Washington child protective services, and I said can't you do anything, and they are like, well, no if he's not beating them there's nothing we can do. I remember after the Cox got custody of the boys we had had a balloon gathering at the park. And and I yelled at the detective that was leading the investigation. And I said do everything you can to keep the boys from going back with Josh he will kill them. And he said, oh, you think so? And I said, yes, I think so. James Manley, the forensic psychologist completed his report on Josh in early December it spanned twenty two pages a time line that I had to follow on those core proceeding, which I think got pushed out a little bit of couple of times waiting the west valley reports those reports the pornography found on Josh's computer had still not arrived because of the the data wasn't my disposal at the first publication. My first report in a nutshell. The report said Josh showed a lot of strengths as a parent, but was under a huge amount of stress James pointed out joshes, intense, self focus, his defensiveness and an inability to stay attentive to Charlie in Britain's wellbeing on the other hand, James noted. Josh had a stable. Job. He'd been working from home for a company called one red x he also had a place of his own no substance abuse problems and the intellect necessary to be a good parent. But what was really clear that? He was very attached to a sons, and I could tell that he loved us out, and they have so what should happen that was complicated James called attention to joshes unresolved legal entanglements in Utah saying they were a cause for concern. He suggested Josh see therapist one with experience in narcissistic personality disorder. He did not recommend reunification instead saying two or three supervised visits each week would best balance the interests of both Josh and the boys Josh moved quickly to schedule. Those additional visits. He asked to have those mid week meets happen at the home of his friend and pastor Tim Atkins, DS HS agreed Atkins had become something of a peacemaker and a go-between between Josh and the Cox's he counseled Josh about how to deal with his hard feelings towards Susan's. Parents. On December nineteenth of two thousand eleven. Josh sent this Email to Tim wanted to send you a special. Thank you note for all you were doing it is more than just facilitating visits. It is helping to restore a good spirit even in a bad situation. Shortly after Christmas, Charlie. Brayden came home from visit with Josh Chuck and Judy were getting the boys ready for bed. When Chuck glanced into the unfinished addition on the house. Contractors had been putting up drywall in what was supposed to become Charlie. And Britain's bedroom they'd been taping in muddying scenes, the mud was still drying. Then I looked in there and and saw little fingers had been in the mud and in the outlet in the mud was soft enough that you put it in the outlet vetting this room, the that was that was that outlet. Okay. Right. There was that outlet Charlie had slipped past the barricade to get into the room unnoticed. But he was had been pushing the mud into outlet. So I went out in the kitchen ask Charlie why were you doing that? And he said, well, you know, daddy told him to so daddy tell you put it in Allah. No, well, what did he told me to break things? And I told Charlie do you realize you could've got shocked by doing that. And I don't want you to get hurt. And he started crying. So why are you crying? I got hurt. You don't care that you are damage. He'd something you care to you could have got hurt. Okay. Well, we still got a ways to go here. But we get a truck asked the state to cancel Josh's visitation that week. Josh went ballistic. My children apparently said I told them to do this. When I asked Charlie why he said that about me, he said, the Cox told him to say it. So he said a Josh wrote that in an Email to the social workers, his attorney, and his friend Tim Atkins. He accused the Cox's of neglecting the boys. I am deeply concerned about my son's being killed by electrical shock while. No, one supervising them at Ken's responded with an Email of his own the next day. He told Josh that going on the attack was not helpful Tim scolded, Josh, politely and said he shouldn't have sent the angry Email. Atkins was trying to mediate some sort of peace between Josh and his in-laws. But Chuck told forest the social worker he couldn't ever see reconciliation happening in early January of two thousand twelve the Cox's were watching junior high basketball game with the boys Charlie and Brayden slipped away with one of their cousins, the older cousin grabbed Charlie and started to spin him around. Sorry. It was swum and Britain jumped in the middle. And as he went around that swept this feat helpful of build out braiding smacked his head and ended up with a giant goose egg took braid into the ER at Mary bridge. Good Samaritan hospital. A CT scan showed no skull damage. Just a lot of swelling. A few days later Chuck brought Britain back to the hospital with another injury this time. It was a bad burn on his left foot. Chuck told hospital staff he had disconnected the water heater at his house while a contractor was setting tile for the remodel. He'd boiled a pot of water on the stove. So they'd have hot water in the house while the heater was off line. He'd put a lid on the pot then set it on the ground near the couch. He runs around and he puts his foot on the top lid and it flipped inside out doused his footing. And all my gosh. You know, what's going on? How did you get into that? I had a little art. It was safe. It was tucked up against the couch. Nobody could get to it. Never. You know? Well, found a way the story sounded a bit convoluted to the doctor the nurse was skeptical especially since it was Britain's second time there in a week hospital staff put in a call to the states social workers everybody who was there could say what happened and all our stories matched. They were all, you know, there's obviously nothing. It just someone an accident happens. So they wanted to interview us and do their part. Josh also heard what was happening. He rushed to the hospital, but staff sheriff's deputy met him in the lobby. They refused to let him see. Brayden in part because he didn't have custody. But also because the anti harassment order he had asked the courts for the prior fall barred him from coming within five hundred feet of Chuck Josh through a fit when he was at last allowed to see Brandon. He didn't try to comfort his son. Instead, he immediately started taking pictures of the injury. Brandon's entire left foot was red blisters had formed on the top of the foot and around the ankle caretakers wrapped the burning GAAS and gave him morphine. They sent him home with the Kocsis. Not josh. That night. Joshua's attorney demanded social workers pull the boys out of the Cox house. He said, it was an unsafe environment. But police inequality pointed advocate for Charlie and great and decided the burn was an accident. I hit done everything I could at the time. And he just he was just being a boy was run around. And I hadn't covered everything obviously. Because he did get hurt the social workers decided Britain's injuries proved that at the worst the Cox's were bit overwhelmed. As we head into the new year. Many or making New Year's resolutions that seem to have one thing in common, and that is finding ways to save money as you ring in the new year, ladies, if you're looking for a new hair care routine. Let me tell you about Madison Reed because Madison Reed is hair-color reinvented. Gorgeous salon-quality colored delivered to your door for less than twenty five dollars. No longer. Do. You just have to choices between the outdated box color or the time and expense of salon. What makes Madison Reed color unique is that it's crafted by master colors to blend the nuances of light and dark, cool and warm, and they can create over forty five gorgeous, multi tonal, shades, and it can be delivered right to your home. Go to their website and get an expert color consultation or take the color quiz at Madison. Dash Reed dot com. Cold podcast listeners get ten percent off plus free shipping on their first color kit with code cold. That's code CO. L D. She go to Madison dash Reed dot com. Toward the end of January. Josh quietly updated. The registration information for each of his websites. He took his own name off and replaced it with his brother Michael's a few days later, Michael posted his own website on Google domain. He called it for the kids. That's the number four the and then kids spelled K ide- ZZ. The site hosted along essay from Michael data January twenty seventh two thousand twelve in it he accused west valley. Police have dumping millions of dollars into a campaign of harassment against his family. Michael called the department incompetent and corrupt. He mocked the searches for Susan in ille- and Topaz mountain as charades. He denied any evidence existed to support his dad's voyeurism arrest. West valley. Police weren't Michael's only target. He went on to claim Britain's burn was no accident. He suggested Chuck and Judy Cox had intentionally inflicted the injury as a form of punishment. Mike's language bordered on preposterous. He said Washington child welfare workers were ignoring the quote overwhelming obviousness of joshes superior parenting ability. The kicker of it all though was a line that claimed everyone just wanted to Lynch. Josh Mike wrote the attacks fell short because his brother was squeaky clean. The entire point of the for the kids website was to make the case that Charlie and Britain's removal had been illegal. In addition to Michael's, essay, it included copies of court documents and emails that social workers had sent to Josh that peek behind the curtain caught the attention of reporters. One asked Washington's department of social and health services for comment. When word got back to the social workers. They were not happy forced Jacobsen fired off an Email to Josh ordering him to explain himself. Josh was apologetic in his reply asked my family about the website. They apparently posted and they said it's down. I reemphasize to them that I'm working hard to build bridges with the Cox's for my son sake. And they should help me. Do that Justice? Michael was posting his manifesto Pierce county sheriff's detective Gary Sanders was bringing a disc to the home of for index. I Qala just James Manley. Those very often and that day it's about a foot. So I had to drive his place. Knock Manley's James was expecting to see photographs the detective via home, we looked slides. That's not exactly what was on the disk turned out. There were no pictures, they Ricard tunes and computer generated sketching Ellis Maxwell in the west valley team headed last security. Judge's permission to share those images with a select number of people, including Gary Sanders, James Manley in Washington state's attorney general also there. Think close to if not three hundred some nail slides that I had to inspect some of them depicted fantasy with long tails of event appendages of alien monsters, and so forth that were approaching another figure in a sexual manner. Most concerned were computer generated animations, showing lifelike human figures involved in acts of incest. Josh it made steady progress toward getting his boys back, and he had a court date scheduled for Wednesday. February I adjudge at some point. Let's go. Okay. They've been way Stevens the home. He's the one the boyers. You haven't proven anything substantial as far as Josh not being a fit parent. So we can put the boys back James drafted a follow up to his original report. He expressed deep concern over what he had seen the pictures. He said suggested Josh showed global approval of sex acts between adults and children. So that along with the other facts that I came along with that clearly indicated Mr. Pell needed I cycle sexual report which had to do sexuality he took that recommendation to Pierce county. Superior Court Judge Katherine Nelson when Josh showed up for court. He looked haggard each. Time Josh came into court. He looked worse and more. And that's our concern less to that. You know, he's he's getting to hand. And I think he came in that February thinking he was going to be granted custody back. Josh pile six page declaration with the court that day, it's tone bounced back and forth from defiant too, conciliatory a lesser person would fall under the intense scrutiny. I am facing. But apparently my inherent resilience is a person makes it increasingly difficult for them to pursue their agenda. I'm standing tall for my son's. But a deeply hurts to face such ridicule and abuse Josh made a veiled reference to his brothers for the kids website information. Was recently published by people who wanted to support me and the truth. I did not support that. And I did not even read all of it. But what I did read was accurate yet. It was censored from the internet due to complaints yet. Josh also seemed to take some responsibility for the sad state of affairs. I am sorry for my part in the conflict for the sake of my son. We can all do better come back to my partnership for protecting my children, which I hope to include a broad network of individuals, including the Cox family and is a two way street and I intend to do my part. Josh concluded by saying he didn't believe the Cox's should be caretakers for his sons, and it was time for Charlie and Britain to come home that request struck Susan's family and their attorney and Bremner as absurd there were a lot of other issues about Josh and about one which also is the kids could be witnesses, the only say more and more and more as they got older that that's red flight to that. He should not be in a position we've got control over them. But Josh's secret stash of pornographic images. Or what finally tipped the scale like four hundred images of cartoon, incest, porn on his computer? Judge Nelson ordered Josh to undergo a psycho sexual evaluation. A lot of people say that's what really set him off that he had like a real discernible. Reaction that court hearing, and it's a big victory on our part. You know, like, okay, cool. Josh is not getting the boys. Back boys are staying with the Kocsis. They're good. They're safer now things are progressing in the right direction. People generally don't like talking about Sixers. So oftentimes sexual history polygraph is employed a lie detector and not just any lie detector and invasive one involving device called uplift his McGrath, which would gauge Josh's physical reaction to sexual stimuli. I don't think Josh. Well, I know Josh didn't know what he was up against Josh Winton asked another psychologist what kind of questions he would face everything from when you first held hands too, many sex partners. You have what kind of sexual had who you had it with and so forth masturbation. Other kinds of things the psycho-sexual valuation was checkmate. That's the point where he knew he couldn't get out of it. He was. He was stuck. He would not stand up so psycho-sexual valuation because it's a lie detector test in sexual valuations. Not to see if you are pervert that how big a pervert, you are, and they can ask you any questions they want during that just to get your reactions to stuff, and they could ask him questions about Susan would have been perfectly acceptable to ask those questions under that evaluation and hooked up to a lie detector with extra leads on it. He would know he there was no way he's going to fake that. So he knew he could not pass that in my mind. He knew that was it. His pastor Tim Atkins wrote an Email to social worker forced Jacobson explaining his family no longer intended to host visits between Josh. And the boys at concen people were questioning his own connection to the case. It was creating problem. For his church. Atkins said his family had come to realize just how little they actually knew about. Josh Wolff raised by wolves is dangerous when cornered and he was quartered and the courts never saw that way. Judge Nelson's decision left placement of Charlie and Brayden unchanged with the Kocsis, but supervised visitation was allowed to continue at Joshua's house. I mean, I it's it's beyond me as to why a government official, knowing they know of the case knowing what they know why the took the kids, and then and then the order does visitation to be done in this particular area. Why would allow the kids to go to the house here you have an individual does being ordered to take a psycho sexual evaluation, and you're keeping the kids from him. But you're gonna allow the kids go to his house for visitation, and I understand. Yeah. There was a social worker with the kids. But I mean, come on this is it's just ludicrous. But you know, I'm not has to live with. On the Saturday following that court hearing, Josh drove to the Bank, he withdrew some cash then transferred the remaining balance to an account belonging to his little sister. Alina? He drove to his storage unit in Sumter and spent more than an hour. They're sorting through his things he loaded some of the stuff into his minivan. Then went and dumped it at a recycling center. He put the units key in an envelope and mailed it to Alina. Although he had one visitation at his house. He took Charlie and Britain's toys and books out of his house and donated them to goodwill. When he returned home. He backed his van into the garage next to a pair of five gallon gas cans that he'd bought from Fred Meyer department store earlier in the week. They were both full of gasoline. That night Josh sent to emails to Dax Gu's mon- his tenant back in the Sarah circle house in west valley City, Utah. One explained that he was forgiving late fees on DAX's rent another told dex to cut the lock on the shed out back of the house trash whatever was in there. And use the space for himself Josh's old motorcycle was also sitting out in the backyard. He asked decks to take it to joke yard if he received any money for it. Go ahead and keep it. Dax's wife Mindy was the first one to see the messages she was actually in. California's was headed back to Utah from California told me that Joshua said that we can use the storage unit, and we can give it of his bike. I'm like that's where he's being nice. Josh had been a difficult landlord. Dax had agreed to finish the basement in the Utah house in exchange for a break on the rent. We're living in the house, and he's given deadlines when he wants things like I'm working, I have family you need to if you want. It don't come back and do it to come back to you to see how you greeted. Josh never did return to Utah. The next morning decks received third and final Email from Josh. It simply said, I'm sorry. Good. Bye. On the next episode of. Heard don't occupied are visible outer ninety one huge plumes. The winter be careful if you have no ready, please. Subscribe to cold tosses waiting a review, you can find cold on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter at the contest for video clips pictures from the case in more hit up decode podcast dot com. Also, if Susan story sounds familiar in your own life. In other words, if you or someone you know is experiencing domestic abuse in any form, please get immediate help in the US. Support is a phone call away at the national domestic violence hotline at one eight hundred seven nine nine seven two three three or online at WWW dot the hotline dot org. A quick thank you to the team. Kristen sorenson. Eric openshaw, Ken fall, Danielle Prager, cure, Fairmont. Becky, Bruce, Josh Tilton at a Mason, Jillian Friedman, and especially Cheryl Worsley, the music for cold was composed by Michael bond Miller except for the guitar stuff. That was me cold is a KSL podcast. Thank you for listening.
Marketplace Minute - Container ship blocks Suez Canal - Closing Bell - March 24, 2021
"This is marketplace minute. I'm just in. How stocks closed down on wednesday. The snp fell half a percent. The nasdaq dropped two percent and the dow ended right where it started. Authorities in egypt are working to this logic container ship. That's been stuck in the suez canal since tuesday. The canal is a major artery of global trade and trackers estimate that at least a hundred other ships have been waiting to pass through it. Reuters reports that tugboats have helped the ship start moving again but the process could continue through the night fed chair. Jay powell says more people are re entering the labor force that will boost the unemployment rate. But powell said it's a good thing that people are looking for work. The federal reserve expects the unemployment rate the fault of four and a half percent by the end of the year and the trading app. Robinhood says it's filed plans to go public. Many retail investors use the platform to make trades during the frenzy over game stop shares earlier this year. I'm just with the marketplace minute.
Why Fed Chair Powell Can Leave Markets Confused
"And. With what's news from the Wall Street Journal. I'm Anne Marie for totally New York. We'll hear from Federal Reserve chairman Jerome Powell on Wednesday after the central Bank concludes its first policy meeting of the new year Powell is working to communicate the Fed's moves in plain speak. But the Wall Street Journal's Nick Tim rose says that hasn't always translated well to US markets been this whole evolution in how the fed communicates. And what Powell is trying to do is really continue that and be more understandable accessible to the public. But what we've seen is that sometimes the risk of doing that. As you get into these situations where you say something that you maybe didn't think through so carefully and markets respond negatively, we'll have more details coming up, but first some other top stories we're following apple saw decline in revenue and profits in the latest quarter for the first time in more than a decade after projecting earlier this month that revenue would fall short of. -tations the news came as apple revealed a bug in its FaceTime system allowed callers to eavesdrop on users of its devices. The Wall Street Journal's trip Mickle explains the suture cracking up armor, China setting aside, the FaceTime issue, which is a glitch a software shoe and focusing on the results apple really eliminated. Just how the the problems that ran into China were in the December quarter and China apple is really dependent on the iphone and the slowdown in China. Sales is also reflective of slow down, and I phone sales and the two of those things combined proved to be a real headache for apple and December period revenue for the iphone fell fifteen percent for the quarter overall revenue declined four point five percent. Uber is looking to link up with public transit systems by offering passengers rides to and from bus stops and train stations. The company is exploring options beyond its taxi. Like service ahead of an. Expected initial public offering this year Hoover has already expanded into the food delivery. Business says it seeks out new revenue. Streams video game retailer game. Stop has ended its search for a buyer leaving its future in question as part of a strategic review the company has explored selling itself but game stop says it's now ended those efforts sales at game. Stop have suffered as more sales and video game play continued to shift online still to come more on why markets are sometimes confused by fed chair Jerome Powell. Federal Reserve chairman Jerome Powell is making an effort to explain the central bank's policy decisions more clearly in plain language, this year, he'll be conducting press conferences after every fed meeting instead of after every other meeting, but the Wall Street Journal's Nick Tim rose says his communication hasn't always been clear to US markets, and he joins us now from Washington to explain Nick we've seen Powell's conversational style develop over the course of twenty eighteen, but you said that despite efforts to clarify what the feds doing sometimes Powell statements have had the opposite effect of confusing the markets even more as we saw especially at the end of last year amid all that market volatility which way to the feds press conference in December. The markets did not react. Well, to what the fed chairman was saying, and in that case, it was probably because they understood him. Well, fed raised interest rates in December and signaled that they would under their current. Forecasts. See two more rate increases is necessary in twenty nineteen now that was a milder view than they had had three months earlier, but the emphasis that German Powell placed on that forecast was not to the markets liking because the market at thought that even a milder forecast that that forecast wasn't mild enough. So you saw a lot of volatility in part because investors were concerned that the answers he gave that press conference and decayed at a higher risk of a policy mistake that is that the fed might raise rates too much. And what you saw after that meeting was a number of fed officials, including how. Couple of weeks, later modifying. The message of a much much more. We understand the markets are paying greater attention to downside risks that we don't see yet in the economy. And so it was it was something that he actually clarified in a way that made markets much more comfortable, but it was a very, you know, wild two weeks in between those two sets of communications, you know, that the confusion tends to come more from his unscripted remarks like in the Keelan a than his scripted remarks. Our policy statement, for example, and every new fed chairman faces this challenge of demonstrating their reaction function to markets that is how they will react incoming data and set policy accordingly. The incidents have gotten an unusual amount attention. There was one in early October where it was a as you said, a moderated discussion and the fed and Jay Powell had been trying to. Back away from this idea that we can precisely estimate where neutral setting of interest is that is the setting of interest where you're neither pushing on the gas pedal, nor stepping on the brake when the Connie's running in mind with where you think that should that's that's generally the place where you wanna be Powell had been pulling back on the idea that that we can really know with a lot of precision where this is. But in early October this discussion, he said at one point, and he was kind of brushing away the idea that they would need to raise rates beyond neutral. Andy said where a long way from neutral at this point probably and markets took that to mean, something that may have been different from the full context of what he said markets took it to mean, we're gonna raise interest rates a lot more. And so in the days and weeks after that as that common got more airtime, people got more anxious about and said, jeez. The chairman planning to disease think we need to raise interest rates a lot more. It looks from the context of the discussion like he'd been really kind of batting. Away this idea that we need to talk about policy getting restrictive because that's still seems like it's a ways off. So that's one example, where whether you want argue that Powell was communicating clearly, but the markets took him out of context either way the markets didn't understand what he was saying. And so it was an episode of confusion, and we've seen fed cheers in the past have similar kind of misfires are flubs. And what's different maybe about this chairman is that he's not a PHD economist, and he has said he wants to do more of this conversational dialogue. You know? He said it his his first or second press conference. I wanna give plain English summary of how we see the economy and how we're doing. And it's part of a broader effort by the fed, and this has happened over many years including under his predecessors bend banenky? And Jen yelling to help people better understand what the fed is doing. And why if you think back thirty years ago, the fed didn't even announce its monetary policy? Decisions. And so there's been this whole evolution in how the fed communicates. And what pal is trying to do is really continue that and be more understandable accessible to the public. But what we've seen is that sometimes the risk of doing that. As you get into these situations where you say something that you maybe didn't think through so carefully and markets respond negatively, and Nick, it seems like this also may be as you alluded to a bit of growing pains this year Powell we giving a press conference after every meeting as opposed to every other meeting as he did last year. Do you think that will help smooth out the communication issues? That's why there's there's a there's a learning curve that every new fed chairman goes through, but there's also loading curve as the markets have to kinda understand how does this person. How are they going to communicate? What do we need to take literally? And what what is you know, maybe something we don't have to pay as much attention to. I think one thing that's different right now a couple of things that are different one. Is that you know, when the fed gets. At this point in the economic cycle. We've we've had an expansion for many many years now, and there's a question as to where interest rates need to be. So this is always a more difficult part of the interest rate cycle how much further you needed to go or you done can you stop raising interest rates. And so as you get closer to that point the risk of making a mistake, of course, goes up the other thing that's different right now is the political environment. And you have namely a president here who's been very aggressive in making his views about monetary policy known last month before the fed raised interest rates. President Trump on Twitter repeatedly said the fed shouldn't be raising interest rates, and they shouldn't be shrinking their asset portfolio, and that is an unusual amount of public commentary from the president. And so it has further complicated. How the fed communicates? It's also been the case in recent years that when there is trouble in the markets, the fed and the treasury and the White House tried to. Get kind of United front says things that help markets be more calm, and what you saw during the volatility after the fed raised interest rates last month was really the opposite. You had reports that President Trump was thinking about replacing Jay Powell firing him. And it's not clear that he has the power to do that in the White House had to come out and say that you also have the Treasury Secretary issue kind of an unusual statement that raised concerns about Bank liquidity when no concerns that existed. And so some of the traditional political dynamics that you've seen in which the treasury and the fed worked together not to coordinate policy, but just to keep markets from panicking that that hadn't really happened at least the end last year. And and so that's a different challenge for Jay Powell. All right. That's Wall Street Journal reporter, Nick timorous, joining us from Washington, Nick, thanks so much or at thank you. And that's what's news. I'm Emory for. Colin and New York for the Wall Street Journal.
What to expect in bonus episodes of Cold
"The house is gone, quiet. The cat curled up in my lap quit purring quite a while ago. I should be in bed myself, but I can't sleep. There's too much work to do. The only light comes from the blue white clo- of my MAC book screen. I tap the space bar to start playback on the next clip. The next hour of Josh Powell's audio journals. All these notes everywhere, and here's one in my closet in my office. You are perfect TIMMY, I think that is credible. To think that one sweet girl with think that I was perfect. It means a lot to me. She truly gave credits compliment ever. I'm Dave Cali the host of cold. I spent a lot of nights like this head down headphones on listening to Josh describe his relationship with his eventual wife, Susan Cox, I think that will continue to be best friends. And. Infatuated in love. With each other taking notes transcribing organizing writing pausing to glance at the clock to rouse, the cat by scratching her behind the years. Trying to maintain my own mental and emotional help in the middle of a disturbing story. Five percent of time only making other happy. And then every once in a while. Have our? I should've love her. It seems a bit absurd to say this now after crafting eighteen episodes about the Susan Powell case that some of the material didn't make the first cut, but that's the truth. So what to do with it? Well since wrapping production on the first season of cold. I've kind of gone back to the well the result three bonus episodes. They're available now at one three dot com slash plus that's p l u s it costs five dollars a month. And it's a way you can help support future investigations by the cold team. The first bonus includes more never before her. Josh Powell audio journal entries along with commentary from clinical psychologist, mad Woolley. And so he's just I think found the ideal in his mind person to feed his narcissistic self perception that he's special and deserves to be treated that way for the second bonus US marshal, Daryl Spencer. Offers an insider perspective on the Powell family complete with audio from a hidden camera recording he made while interviewing Steve Powell. Yeah. Lost his job. Susan's? Susan, I guess. House. Hangar letting people underestimated darkness and the demons that were Josh. And Steve in the third we visit a location of some mystery nutty putty cave to explore the question could Josh have disposed of his wife's body here. The only way to get through the first part of the opening which is ten or fifteen feet long is to either go flat on your back or flat on your stomach and just kinda move your way through carefully like that. And then the cave opens up into some are larger caverns these three bonus episodes of cold are available exclusively with us absorption to wonder plus again, five dollars a month gets you access along with the complete first season of cold ad free to sign up. Learn more go to WWW dot wondering dot com slash plus. That's wondering dot com slash P. L US. Oh, and one other thing if you live in or near Utah cold is hosting a live event on may six. Eighteenth at the Eccles theater in Salt Lake City. We plan on celebrating Susan and her boys as well. As continuing the conversation around domestic abuse during this special evening and all share the story behind the podcast. You'll also have a chance to ask questions of our special guests, you can get tickets by going to live at the Eccles dot com. And again, it's another way to support future seasons of cold. A portion of all ticket. Proceeds will benefit the Utah domestic violence coalition. I hope to see you there.
Ep. 14 Killing Susan's Sons
"Do you ever feel like it just needs some support to get really healthy? Hi, I'm Scott Mitchell. I'm Melanie Douglas. I'm on a journey to find lasting health in my everyday life. And I here to help we'll find fun doable. Ways to improve your health too, small and simple changes. It's the really healthy podcast. Subscribe for free on itunes or the KSL News Radio app. I spent my college days throwing perfect passes and trash-talking BYU. And I spent my college career smashing Utah utes faces into the mud on Jason buck, and I'm Scott Mitchell after our careers in the NFL, we still talk traps mostly to each other on our podcast rivals. We talk all these football college and NFL a little bit about life and growing up rivals downloaded each week wherever you get your podcasts or on the KSL sports app. Go cougs and go us. This podcast discusses domestic violence criminal behavior. Murder and adult themes while not explicit. Listener discretion is advised. The giants were playing the patriots in Indianapolis. Super Bowl Sunday, February fifth two thousand twelve. Elizabeth Griffin hall was at work as people across the country tuned into coverage of the big game. She drove her grade Toyota Prius into the coldest sack at one eighty ninth street court east in Graham, Washington. She steered between two pine trees that flanked the driveway outside a small Brown house. It was about noon Pacific time. It was parked her car and pull the key out of the ignition. She worked for foster care resources, a company contracted by the Washington State Department of social and health services to supervise visitation in child custody situations, she was bringing Charlie and Brayden Powell over for their usual Sunday visit with their dad Josh Powell, Josh waited for them. He pulled open the front door of his rented house and looked at his sons. I have a surprise for you. He said the giddy boys took off at a clip up the short path between the driveway in the front door, Elizabeth hurried along after them. Charlie and Brayden slipped past their father and into the house. Then Josh looked straight adolescence Beth right into her eyes. Without another word. He slammed the door and locked it. Nothing like that had ever happened before. Elizabeth pounded on the door. Josh didn't dancer. She ring the doorbell again, no answer. She shouted ordering. Josh to open the door. She rang the bell over and over and over again. No response. Growing frantic Elizabeth began to beg please. Let me in. Then she heard something terrible from the back of the house Saabs. A child crying. One of the boys. Elizabeth reeled her pulse. Quickened and breathing. Accelerated. She smelled the unmistakable odor of gasoline. She went back to her car pulled out her phone and dialed nine one one. It was twelve o eight PM. Hey, do provide the depiction for quarter and something really looted happened. The kids went into the house and the parent the biological parent. Who thing is Josh Powell will not let the in the door. What should I do? The dispatcher asked Lisbeth for the address it eight one one nine, and I I think eighty nine I don't know what the pre Morton for me to know while looking she said, I think I need help right away. Harry. FHFB's PDF been involved. And this is the craziest thing he looked dried off in the door. Are you there? Just waiting to know where you are. Okay. It eight one one nine one eighty nine eight to our ninety seven five what happened next would haunt his ATT. I've liked to pull out of the driveway of the smell gasoline. And let me in. We want to pull out of the driveway because you smell gasoline. But he won't let you won't let me in over to Dr wing in the house. In the house, and he won't let me and supervised. Visit. How is it? Powell? Okay. You don't live there right now. I know I'm contacted to the state to provide supervised visitation. It was told the confused dispatcher. This was a high profile case. Josh was the husband of missing woman, Susan Powell. How W E L O? To Elvis and appel. Yeah. His name is Josh. What why? If quite. I don't know. He's about thirty nine. She grew more agitated the dispatcher told her he would have a deputy swing by. I don't know them. They have to respond to emergency life threatening situations. First the first available deputy. Life threatening. He wants poured on one thing. He didn't kids back, and this is really I'm afraid for their live Dritan allies of the children previously. I have no idea. All right. We'll have the first available deputy contact you. Thank you. The call ended. Elizabeth backed her car out of the driveway and parked on the other side of the coldest sack a safe distance away from the house. Then it happened. The house ignited. Fire fueled by gas moved so fast. It seemed like an explosion heat may the windows burst and thick black smoke billowed out. Fresh air rushed into the house smothering some parts of the fire while stoking others. It was twelve sixteen pm. Dispatchers started to receive more calls about the blast Graham fire and rescue station ninety five sits less than a quarter mile away as the crow flies from Joshua's house. It should have taken just moments for a fire truck to arrive. Elizabeth watching in shock could hear the wail of the siren. It seemed to swirl around her as if moving in a circle. She kept waiting to see an engine, but dim derive. Flames climbed high above the trees surrounding the half acre property. Backpacker outdoor yet. One one nine one eight not. Our? How? Kilter that he wouldn't let me in the door. My on the line. The dispatcher connected of Elizabeth directly to the fire department. Nine. What we have. And then from there. Not somebody here. But I was under somebody here in the UAE. Why the adult man? And the husband and the father will in the how. Yeah. Josh's final for act. Who was no mistake. This is cold sewed fourteen. Killing Susan's sons. I'm Dave Cali. Josiah's little sister Alina a woke that Sunday morning to find an odd Email in her inbox. It was a forward from Josh something to do with his finances. More emails arrived throughout the morning. Josh told Alina message by message how to handle his affairs. Then Lena's phone beeped. She had a new voice mail. This is Josh. To say goodbye. And I'm not able to the one anymore. I'm sorry to everyone on hurt by. Alina called nine one one. In trouble. Funding in the. Dispatcher asked Alina for her brother's address Elina said, she didn't know it. The dispatcher asked her for her brother's name Elina said Josh Powell. I I think so. Okay. The media. One. Lina struggled to keep her composure. Okay. For him. I'm Alina still could not confirm the address Joshua only lived there. A couple of months. She said she had never bothered to look at the street signs. And in fact, suspicion persists to this day. The Josh had never actually moved into the house only staged it to make it appear as though he had. A need. Nothing. Think about how to handle. Pinpoint? Anything because it came in the morning. Anything from him. Kind of forward is one thing. Dispatcher total Lena, a deputy would head to one eighty ninth street court east, but it would be very helpful. If she could confirm Josh's address. The only. The first sheriff's deputies pulled up to the burning house at twelve thirty pm twenty two minutes after Elizabeth Griffin hall. I dialed nine one one. Of a house. Lots of explosions heard. Occupied are visible outer ninety one huge plume NTD's aware careful church in a meeting in the bishop's office when his phone buzzed. So I mean, they're just text or something or Email or something for somebody said that the joshes blown up the house there in going. Where did you hear this on Facebook? Okay. Good Facebook kind of care. What's there's no controls on Facebook. You know, who knows what it is. So said, okay. Well, not too worried about that. So and I've started back in when off again, and then I says well Hussein this was associated press's picking us up from the time I found out about it till the media gets hit until they start trying to get in touch with me. I know I'm gonna have to answer questions. I know that other people are gonna want to is true is not somebody has to find out and actually look and see what's going on. So it was me. So I and did what I need to do to to find out. Fire was intentionally says she is she believes that the Jad and two children ages. Five seven are inside the house, neighbor, and advocate cures e Hellawell. I learned of the fire from a reporter just barely walked in from church and my phone started ringing. And I was like, oh, what is it know what is often known? So I answered it. And it was a reporter asking me if I had heard that there was an explosion at the house. Josh was renting in Graham, Washington. And I said, no, I haven't heard that. What do you mean in explosion? What do you mean? A fire. Well, we just heard that Josh had the boys and that he had picked them up for his his visit with them and the whole house up in flames in it. I just I said I can't talk to you right now. And I hung up immediately called Susan's dad, and he was driving to the house one hands of the phone. And I said Chuck is it true. And he said, I don't know I'm on my way either. But I think it is. So and then I just started sobbing, and then it called Debbie, and I said, Debbie. I don't wanna be the one to tell you this. I do not want this, and I told her and she said, no, no, no. They'd be Caldwell had been Charlie. And Britain's daycare provider when they lived in Utah. She had traveled to Washington to visit the boys at the Cox house just a couple of months earlier, Debbie cold, call cold, the other people who would want wanna know in need to know that it was actual. And then let them start talking to me and do all stuff, so I can cut it just recover from. It realize what went on. Chuck called me. And all I said to him was Chuck Chuck is true is true. Any said, yes, I didn't even think of I just hung up the phone. I was in such a state of shock shock. We expected that he cared about his kids turns out he didn't. That's Josh pals brother-in-law, Kirk graves reaction to the news that Josh had taken the lives of his son and his own life in a home, explosion Joshua's, estranged older sister. Jennifer had just returned home from church when her phone rang. It was Kyrie. Jennifer could only manage to make out something about an explosion and the kids. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna go call Chuck and find out what's really going on here. So you just hang on. I'll you back. And so I went in and found my husband in the other room, and and he was in his office and. I didn't even talk to kids didn't even see the kids. I didn't wanna bring this up in front of the kids. We were in his office and shut the door. We called Chuck. He said that he was on his way to figure it out. He wasn't sure what was going on. He was going to call us back. And so we were kind of just waiting on pins and needles waiting for him to call back. And Finally, I don't know how many minutes had passed, but probably at least ten minutes before we realized before we decided. We can't wait any longer. We're just gonna call and so called him again. And. Chuck it got there and the house was. Burnt out charred mess, and it was confirmed. That josh. And the boys were in there in that they were dead. And it was it was such a. Such a weight such a horrible. A horrible thing. My mind couldn't even comprehend. It was kind of like shutdown as remember sinking to the floor thinking. I should I should tell someone. This is really bad. And I should tell people that this is happened. I sat there and I stared at my phone. Trying to figure out how to make it work because it couldn't remember how. How did how did? Send messages anymore. And I finally was able to. Get through that and figure it out and get my mind to to work a little bit again. And I ended up. Sending this really really. Blunt message to whole bunch of friends and family, and I feel bad now because it was something to the effect of Josh has blown up his house with Charlie and Brayden in it, and they're all dead. And I sent that something like that. And it was. Oh my goodness. I think now, and I think oh my goodness. If I had if I had received that message. Oh, oh. How horrible and then I heard from people later, you know, loved ones in friends and about when they received that text. And and my my cousin was in the middle of church, and and she received that while she was sitting there in relief society and looked at that. And she just she said she just she stood up kind of like me. What do you what do you even make of that she stood up and just stood there looking at it? Not sure what to do. And finally as it came through into her mind. She choose finally just left went and founder her husband and her children, and they left and just situations. Like, all my goodness. It was horrible. It was horrible. And then we came down. We were upstairs, and we came down and because the doorbell rang. My neighbors across the street head had heard, and they were coming to you know. Be here. Just to be here with us. And I walked down the stairs. I remember thinking. Goodness children. Don't even know. And I had to stop and explain to him that there their cousins had been murdered. Terrible house explosion. And. It of course after that. I was still in a daze. It was just unreal. And we had other people that came wonderful friends that just came in and sat with us. And feel that the media Kirkman out. He talked some with the media little bit. I could not deal with it. I could not. Do it. But they were camped all over my my yard my front yard. And I couldn't I could not other. Even in the midst, even in the midst of it. I I remember thinking. Even even through the pain somewhere. Deep down inside. There. Okay. Thera- K because they're now with their mom and with heavenly, father and Jesus. That was like a little glimmer a little glimmer of light through the whole thing. That just kept me from completely collapsing. One. Additional victims at the same location. I. Sheriff's detective Gary Sanders was getting ready for the big game. All's makes chili concur by pager went off because having a Super Bowl party that day, and we have pagers we don't have patriots anymore. It's called dispatching regards the Josh Powell that's where I wonder what's going on with that. So called this match. And it was like, hey Sanders. Calling about your page. Josh's blew up the house and kill the boys with them and the boys with them. I was like, you know, it was just it was to the bottom, you know, play with the boys. The boys had been my patrol car plant the lights and sirens. I've got the no the Kocsis start thinking about that. You know, how I fo- for the caucuses. And I'm like, oh crap. I wonder if they know and it just it was it was a bad day and Al forever. Remember that day where I was maybe my own half away. If that, you know for more that was. And I drove there still smaller than it was just chaotic scene with fire trucks and the looking at the house of the devastation. You know, the gas that he poured the way he'd done it. He may trade took care of Chuck Cox arrived shortly after Gary there's something there. So I had to go over see for myself. It wasn't. There wasn't done. And I saw it. Yes. It wasn't aid smoke coming out of it. And I knew what I knew what they would be looking out. I knew what the the first responders were looking at it throughout his career with the FAA investigating plane crashes truck had examined his share of fiery disasters. He reacted as many pilots would by falling back on his training and checklists emergencies like a win to a really comb do A B C and as most important thing at B C. And then I do this. And I'm just go into that mode. And I do what I need to do. So I I need to do go. Find out as a true number two. I got a notify the people who are waiting to find out. So I told them number three. What do I do next? What can I do next? Well cameras. Go home Gary told Chuck there was nothing. He could do at the house. I wife she didn't have phone. So I don't know if she knows or not. So I gotta go back there. 'cause being here is not going to do anything. Once the flames were doused Gary walked. Through the still smoking remains of the house even. We're pretty sure because I'm on call with the social worker seeing the boys going hearing them scream, and then the explosion you knew. But you still gotta conferment. Josh had spread gallons of gasoline throughout the entire house. Then ignited it going through and seeing the bodies and stuff like that. That was a hard thing to, you know, just two little boys that were innocent and had no play into that in unfortunately, mom been taken away. So they'd been that those three bodies were altogether in a back bedroom, a blackened metal hatchet sat next to Josh's body. Gary could see that Josh had used it to bludgeon. Both of the boys about the back of the neck, knocking them unconscious. Coroner's though, determined the fire and smoke inhalation actually caused the deaths. Gary positively identified the bodies as belonging to Josh, Charlie. And Brayden Powell dental records later confirmed that observation fired as a lot of damage, but the explosion kind of put a lot of the fire out to some essence, you know, blew the roof off stuff like that in. There was some damage, but you could tell unfortunately, you know. Someone will always be up here 'cause you can tell. Signal. Oh stars confirmed. Third. Gary, I was Maxwell was at home preparing for a Super Bowl party, horrible horrible. You know, I was I was home, and I had guests over the house and doing what a lot of people do that watch Super Bowl Sunday. Teams go at Ellis missed a call from Gary then received a message from his Lieutenant telling him something had happened in Washington. And I get a phone call from from Gary in his like, it goes view heard. And I said heard what nego- sit down, and I was like, and so I went into my office, and I sat down what's going on nuts? When he told me Josh blew up to house with kids inside. My first comment was what the hell were the kids doing house because the kids weren't supposed to be having visitation at the house. It was supposed to be in a neutral location in a kind of like a public but governed area, and I next thing was. Serious. And you know, those kind of like a believed it, but I didn't believe it and. You know? So it was it was crazy emotional. Roller coaster of emotions I was upset. I was mad. I was sad. And I just literally wanted to just jump in my car and drive straight up there Ellis's mind raced, obviously premeditated. And he was ready, and he was going to carry it out. Clearly, Josh had made up his mind that he was going to carry out some sort of active violence, whether upon himself or others. So whether or not that could have been prevented, I don't think anybody could say, you know, and it's possible. I mean, say if the Kocsis had the kids and their home, and he did some surveillance on them, and maybe he blows up their house, and so instead of the three of them now there's five of them or more word spread among the rest of the west valley city team they made immediate travel arrangements. Police won't comment about other details that involve Susan's case. But they are saying they're going to question Stephen Powell about it daxon Mindy. Guzman were renting, Josh and Susan's other house. The one on Sarah circle in west valley City, Utah. Like, Lena, they'd received strange emails from Josh. Then they saw the video of the fire on the news. In one of the emails Josh told Dax to take his old Yamaha radian motorcycle from the backyard and sell it for scrap a somatic. Josh I. I took my chamber my sauce. I shredded his bike. I completely completely tore that bike apart than they are. I yeah, I was really really really mad. When Atta with my sledgehammer, just cut up the frame, cut up everything. Yeah. It was knows is evil. I can't can think it I can't process it. I can't even complete the process in my mind. To do what he did I played with those boys. I hung out with this boy had. It was it was getting close. That's why he did what he did we've been close and part of me wishes that even the boys were gone part of me wishes that he would have survived and just lived in pain the rest of his life that would have been so great Brian that maybe Lhasa's hands is be whatever she's been Naba person out have been okay with me. Absolutely. Owings the last person. Besides Josh to have seen Susan alive. Learned of the fire from her sons they were watching Super Bowl coverage when the TV station broke in with a live report the live report, and I saw a house burning. I saw at least cars and I saw. I think I saw a woman by her car in front, and she was just she was being talked to by other people. And I said, what am I boy said Josh just blew up his house in killed his voice. And I just I could not believe that that stuff that people make of putting a movie it wasn't. It wasn't real to me that that could possibly happen. But I did find out it was real it did happen. And I still I was I was in shock for a good couple days. Just like how could that happen? How could somebody do that to their children? I have a strong mothering nature, and I could never ever do that to my children. I could not understand how Hello father could do that to his children either. This was the first visit Josh it had with the boys since Wednesday's custody hearing in which he learned he would not be getting his sons back. Neighbors weren't the only ones blindsided by the news. Her coworkers Linda Bagley and amber hardman were as well. Here's amber, I was at work Super Bowl Sunday. Remember that? And all of a sudden my phone just started blowing up like people messaging needs to hear about the news. I'm sorry. I hadn't yet. And we had TV's on everywhere were coming. It's just how it is. It was right there on the TV before I'd even had a chance. Talk to anybody looking foam like what is going on the TV there. It is. And like, you're in a movie, it doesn't seem real it almost solidified that he had to of kilter like if you can kill your children if you can do that. Of course, he could kill your spouse rod Stevens who had helped Josh unload. His you hall when he moved to Washington in January of two thousand and ten had himself moved to Utah in the time sense. He found out about the fire from his dad. My father called me up and said, Josh Gildas boys blew up his house and is in the morning. I got the call, and I've actually quite heard for the boys I could care less about Josh. But I felt really bad for those two boys. Rod saw the murder-suicide as something of a confession dads. Don't do that. Right. You secretaries yourself long before it ever ever, let one of your kids get hurt but not Josh. So what kind of place of evil he had to get to kill us. Two boys. Clearly killed his wife don't out about them. And now they're hoping they'll finally learned once and for all what happened to Susan after police are able to release more details about the case this point. My feeling is Joshua's just admitted to guilt dark memories long suppressed rose from the depths of Catherine Everett's mind when she learned of Josh's final act. Katherine who'd been Josh's only true girlfriend before he met and married. Susan had followed every twist in the case ever since I seeing her ex boyfriend on the news in December of two thousand and nine I broke it. Absolutely devastated. Me some like this is not having you know, I'm like this absolutely to Winston. How could this be going on? How can I know this person and just knowing that it was very probable that? Susan is they he was absolutely and utterly. Of doing some. She couldn't believe Josh married moved to Utah and lived for years less than an hour's drive away from her house bad place. Just you know. Mentally and emotionally. And I just like. Eight maimi. Think about a lot of things that happened between the two of us, you know, and just the way he was like, so many others, Catherine and her husband Dennis learned of the house explosion in Washington when they saw on the TV that day. Katherine had celebrated her birthday just one day before she wondered if Josh had intended to Mark the date. I have to be careful when I talk about it. And when I think about it because right after he killed himself. I had some really really disturbing claims where he was there. But it was like he was he wasn't alive. He was obviously dead. And I'm like, I have to careful about what I let in you know, to myself, and I said, I don't like to talk about the whole lot. And I'm sure in some twisted way, he thought that he was going to be reunited with Susan and everything was going to be good in great. And I'm like, it's not the way works. Those kids are gonna go to their mom. You're not going to be able to have some young. Forensic psychologist James Manley who had recommended Josh undergo a psycho sexual evaluation with another provider was at work on a different report that day, I was working on a report and the colleague that I referred to Josh to for the sexual texts may or something insists look at CNN right now. So I did and it was a helicopter shot of the smoldering home James was not so emotionally invested as Susan's, friends or family. He hadn't spent the same amount of time with the case as the police who had been nipping at Josh's heels for the prior two years, but at the same time he was closer to what had happened than almost anyone. He had visited that house. The intense violence. The Josh had was his sons talking to forensics talking to the policemen. Talking. To the fire chief talking to the social worker arrested. The agency's supervisor that brought the children to the house that I just you know, we so before cleared along with the social worker was fairly intense. I would say approaching trauma. But it really wasn't. It wasn't that close to me. But of course, you backtrack and wonder did I miss something? Says the cost from the social worker are now under review Jody mayor is a communication supervisor at the dispatch center, she says nine one one is often misunderstood she. And her agency is asking for time and understanding as the case is looked at attorney and Bremner hadn't heard much from her clients choking, Judy Cox in weeks. I didn't hear anything from when they have those kids. It was the first time that they were like, okay, they were just crates. And so. It was. Just a heartbreaker for them and learned of the fire from a reporter. I phone rang. And it was it was a reporter from Utah and said did you hear I said hear hear what he said? There was an explosion at Josh's house, and they think that three are dead. And I was thinking natural gas explosion. Because he said there's been an explosion. And then I can't remember if I called CIA or check called me, I think Chuck called me. And I said something is it true? And he I think he said is right outside the house. I'll never forget this part. He said, they're all gone. He goes, and we told him. So and I was just like oh my God. I mean, it was just I I've never felt sick before about something. You know, just I set my car for longtime Bremner says, the Cox family doesn't know what's next. They're hoping the west valley city police released. What information they have about the case? Now that their only person of interest is dead Pierce county sheriff's detective Gary Sanders left the house that afternoon after initial stuff went over to Joshua's Merced Eve's house spoke with Elena. And try to see what she said. And she played the Nevada smell that. He left people and stuff. She's unfortunate. It was you know, so many ways he had another very difficult. Visit to make spoke with Chuck and Judy that day, you know, not just element of here. He has daughter. And now he took only two, you know, parts of his daughter that hey, still had, you know, taking taking them the way he did. And then here in the way, he did a coward that he was, you know, just infuriates you, Gary and Shannon came over to tell me. Yes, there was a hatchet evolve. And and that confirm officially, but that was hours later, you know, I'd already been they're worse as more and more stuff came out about what really had happened the boys on that day having had Brayton in my arms before and seeing a fear in Brandon's is and just. Actually, more like a terror because he just was living some kind of a horrible thing on his mind, and you could do anything for him. And I could just see imagine him seeing Charlie get hit with a hatchet and the dad coming after him in just. Can imagine the terror that was in his is when that stuff out. And that made it harder for me. Father who claims he loves us. Children can do that to them. Family still backs him up after all that still. L? Listen, the west valley team arrived in Washington the day after the fire on Monday, February six is hard zoos super difficult. Let alone. I hate the smell of our after it's been put out by the fire department Pierce county had put up a chain link fence around the lot. Ellis could see the roof was gone along with a third of the exterior walls almost all of the interior walls were gone to only the skeleton of the wooden frame remained. The beams were gnarled and blackened. It had been hot inside the house. So hot a wire birdcage had turned to do. It looked like a piece of modern art. The remains of Josh's minivans sat in what had been the garage. The fire had burned the paint right off of it. The tires had burst. Then burned to nothing. The window glass. Had shattered everything plastic had melted, including the headlights tail lights and door handles. The seats were just metal frames and springs, no, upholstery a few items had survived. The investigators found a couple of scorched. Cellphones three badly burned. Hard drives a camcorder a flash drive and some other computer stuff. They also recovered a pile of Josh's old journals impersonal papers those included postcards from three tourist attractions in Idaho. Shoshoni falls on the snake river, this is schone ice caves and old mission state park outside of court, Elaine here, you are going through this home. And looking for. Anything that is that can be saved, and you could potentially maybe get some answers from all while in the back of your mind, your primary target the person responsible for Susan is now gone and not only did he take himself. But it took us kids to if Josh had written any sort of confession letter it burned with the rest of the house. You know, you've got that plane in the back of your mind. And then you're thinking, oh, gosh, you know, who would have thought that he would took his kids out and murdered them. And so then you start second guessing yourself reflecting back on the years going those or something we could have done differently to prevent this in for not to go to this extent. And so it was challenging, and, you know, something that's you know, me personally had to work through for for quite some time and kind of reflect back and. Reflect on that day, and in the future the case and. Where's Susan minutes? Lot Ellis called Josh's brother Michael on Tuesday, two days after the fire, Michael didn't dancer Ellis. New Michael was living in Minneapolis pursuing a PHD at the university of Minnesota. So he called campus police and asked if they could track Michael down, they did and confirmed Michael had no intention of talking to Ellis. That afternoon. Police went to search Josh's storage unit in Sumner. They tested several items for blood one indicated for the possible presence of blood. It was a comforter from a bed. The detectives took it on Wednesday three days after the fire. A pair of investigators went to the Pierce county jail to talk to Steve. FBI special agent. Jeff Ross showed Steve photos of the bodies. Steve wouldn't talk phasing. He described that visit in a letter months later, it continuously dangled pictures of three charred bodies to try to convince me that Josh was evil, and they tried to get me to talk about Josh they repeated over and over, you know, Josh killed Susan for three hours. Steve told the FBI the only way he would share his story would be in a book as Steve was facing off with the FBI west valley. Police were at the land recovery recycling center. In Puyallup, they started sifting through the huge pile of trash from the previous week looking for the stuff. Josh dumped the day before the fire. Pierce county called in volunteers to help it took them several days, but the volunteers did manage to pull out several interesting items those included in issue of church magazine, called the enzyme from nineteen Ninety-four several books which Susan had owned as a kid a roadmap of Utah with handwritten pen marks around popular tourist attractions and a Portuguese language book of Mormon with Josh's name embossed on the cover. Josh had at some point marked just four verses in that book of scripture with a red pencil. One of them was mosaic chapter twenty six verse thirty in English that verse reads. Yeah. And as often as my people repent, I forgive them their trespasses against me. You've heard me say before the my wife is a stickler for home security and so in our twenty plus years of marriage. 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Tammy foreman who had taught Charlie kindergarten said another went up outside Carson elementary. My kids knew about Charlie and sell my on children. We're very devastated. My daughter was obsessed the keeping those candles going. So every night she wanted to meet a driver over to the school. So she could make sure all the candles and that was really important her. And if she couldn't go she would ask her friends to go. And then she and her friends would go straighten out all the purple ribbons on the trees that people have put up in remember, Susan. Yeah. So I know that it was hard on on my kids as well. I felt really numb. So it's hard to describe. It was like it was it wasn't real like watching a movie about someone else. I guess I felt very disconnected. When. I I heard about it that day. Also is I don't remember very, well, I was just kind of a mess, and the fact that it was so brutal is a lot harder. Like I'd like even if he had just blown up the house that would be better than thinking. These boys went into the house to adad that they trusted he Trump. I can't imagine. I can't imagine in almost everyone that I know has some connection to that day. They saw the flames or big no people that were involved, and it really devastated our whole community built angry. She couldn't understand why Josh had been allowed to have visitation at his house for a long time after the explosion. I would think I saw Josh. It was the weirdest thing. He might have like a common look to him or something. But all the time. I would do a double take because I think I saw him at the gas station or the store somewhere and. It took a long time for me to stop having that experience. I don't know why it wasn't. I didn't think that I saw Charlie Raden. I just think I- Josh frequently Nancy from the Puyallup, Jim and mineral club found solace from her grief among friends. One good thing was the club. We would have a regular meetings. And so. It was discussion the major discussion. Should we contact the Cox family, should we bother them with our feelings were just this Little Rock law? Who cares about us? Really? But another club member said, you know, those boys were here they were club members and they sat on our laps, and they spilled stuff, and they ran and they fell down the God up, and they made us laugh and they were club members. There was a stone that the boys were interested in and that's kind of a whole nother story. But Josh had taken the boys to a club members house who had a shop in his house, and he wanted to cut a stone for the boys in polish it and give it to him because he was drawn to them as well. And he was older, man. So they'd be like grandkids to him. So he took they went to his house. They picked. Out a stone. And he sliced it, and he polished it, and he was going to give it to them. And it never happened because they died they were gone. So with that, we still have this stone. So our club decided to put a plaque on it and get it to Chuck and Judy. So. I'll take credit for what it says on it because I'm the one that decided that it would say this. What I I took it to a trophy shop and had a plaque put on it. That said Charlie Brayden forever in the arms of an angel. They mounted on the stone. And then we got a hold of Chuck and Judy and we went to their house Chuck wasn't there. But we got to have a long discussion with Judy. And it was I opening the young couple that she watched pretty much dissolve and turn into what it was. But it was profound. It was profound and touching while. Police try to find answers Chuck says, he's busy planning a funeral. He says it will be a public one and Chuck says he's grateful for the community support and hopes those mourning the loss of his two, grandchildren. Will remember how truly innocent and wonderful? They were check Judy Cox arranged to church Harley and Brayden at Puyallup Woodbine cemetery. Susan's disappearance had been the stuff of network and cable TV for more than two years by that point. Josh has murder-suicide made national news the Cox's new. The boy's funeral was going to draw a lot of attention. So they planned to services one for the public and one for the family scheduling both for Saturday February eleventh. The first took place at the life center church in Tacoma, the church provided a live video feed. Tammy foreman Charlie's kindergarten teacher accepted an invitation to speak valley surprised because when I got there. I was immediately taken in where the family was. And that was really awkward because there were people on both sides of the family there people who didn't wanna talk to each other. So it was a very uncomfortable situation. But on the other hand, I really appreciate it being treated like family and having them just bring me right in Russia's mom, Terry and sister Alina in a separate section of the auditorium segregated from the rest of the crowd. Josh's brother. Michael didn't show up having stayed in Minneapolis. During the service pastor dean curry praised both families for setting an example, these two families who've had so much who've had so much pain. Have come together have set aside very dark and hurtful moments. To celebrate children. Tammy told the crowd Charlie had been a little scientist who'd always had a smile on his face when he knew he was being clever. He was an amazing young, man. He had an appreciation for nature that I have never seen in someone so young he loved rocks. Sticks leaves and bugs he collected these items at recess and always had a hard time. Parting with them when it was time to return to class, he often left them by the outside door. So he could play with them later on many occasions. He tried to sneak a worm or Caterpillar into the class. He was a good sport whenever I caught him. And he would make sure the bug was safe and sound before joining the class, he loved learning facts, he called nonfiction books real books, and he had an amazing ability to remember what he learned Christie king from the mill Corum family YMCA, pre K program called Brayden tickle monster. A budding puzzle master into vehicle boy who loved cars, trucks, and trains. It was obvious that Brayden loved his grandparents at the end of each preschool day. He will look out the window to wait for his grandma to pick him up telling everyone how much funny had with them and how much she loved them. He just leaped into her waiting arms. He had a heart of gold always wanting to show a fiction. Brayden liked to hold his teachers hand and not let go he was cuddly with his grandparents aunts and cousins teachers classmates and even first time visitors to the house rush hour with Britain's hugs, and I love us. And always there was that big beautiful smile on a face. So like his mother's pastor Ken's who had counseled Josh in the child custody case spoke. So did Tim Sloan a longtime friend of the Cox family? We must press forward. We have to learn from this experience. It's drive to become better, fathers and mothers. To have more patience and love and kindness, withhold our anger. To be gracious to others as the savior as gracious to us and long suffering with us at the conclusion of the service, Chuck and Judy Cox stepped to the microphone. Tears fell from judy's is as her husband addressed the crowd in a soft voice, all the teachers social workers, the police everyone was doing everything they possibly could to keep them safe and helps them and love them. Thank you for your support. We know that there was her mother. Thank you very much. Then the family followed the single light blue casket to a hearse which took the boys to the south hill. Ward of the church of Jesus Christ latter-day saints there. The Cox is held their second private ceremony for family members and close friends sitting in Charlie embraces ram. Chuck Cox finds strength in knowing where his two grandsons are. Now, we believe it that she is safe at our heavenly father's arms, and the children are they're worth our there's been a reunion. Terry enelina Powell had inquired with the Woodbine cemetery about having Josh buried next to the boys that had caused an uproar in the days prior to the funeral Pierce county. Sheriff's office spokesman EDF Royer was not about to let that happen. He and our sheriff did a big push for that and matron that didn't happen along with crime stoppers. Yeah. That was that was big thing. We were not gonna let him be buried next to his boys after he killed their mother. So yeah, yes, exactly. The family laid Charlie and braid into rest at Woodbine cemetery on Monday February thirteenth. A single headstone marked their grave at the top. It showed a picture of Susan enter boys together, smiling the words United in heaven were engraved at the bottom. Just below Susan's name and the words missing December six two thousand nine ultimately nice day to find Susan. So we can vary her next time. And and they can be together. But we know now that they are together. Joshua's name did not appear anywhere on the stone. This is not the end of our story. The search for Susan will continue in episode fifteen but this feels like an appropriate moment to express my sincere gratitude to all of the people who've shared their memories of Susan, Charlie. And Brayden they were loved they are still loved and they will not be forgotten. If you or someone, you know is experiencing domestic abuse in any form, financial control emotional manipulation threats violence. Verbal put downs whatever it is. Please reach out for help. You are not alone resources and advice our phone call away in the United States. You can contact the national domestic violence hotline by calling one eight hundred seven nine nine seventy three three more by going online to the hotline dot org. Cold is a KSL podcast. Thank you for listening.
5 PM MARKET CLOSE
"This is market minute by yahoo finance. I mean s ray. The markets ended in the red today after fed chair. Jerome powell made comments about inflation and wasn't able to ease rate fears. Bond yields have been inching higher. The nasdaq is down more than two percent earlier. In the day it went negative for the year the s. and p. Five hundred is down more than one percent in the dow closed off more than one percent or about three hundred and forty five points as we've seen rotation coming out of tech stocks and high growth names and going into energy stocks industrials. That's the type of pattern that we saw again today looking at the dow chevron was the best performer on the dow before the sell off in the afternoon at point during the day. The nasdaq the snp and the dow were all in green territory for more market minute. News had to yahoo finance dot com.
Keep Going with Fabi Powell
"Always told people I'm like I swear. The person that I end up with is going to be a little piece of every single person that I've loved throughout my life like all the good parts. I think that's what we all hope for. Is We take all the good parts that people that we've loved along the way and magically? There's this person is all of those things that innocuous Josh two months end to US dating he got diagnosed with snow wheel. Sarcoma which is a very very aggressive form of cancer that takes money people's lives unfortunately and luckily has was contained and he gave me an out right away he was like. Hey listen if this isn't something that you want to sign up for. I wouldn't ever think anything less of you. You're one of the most incredible people I've ever met and I appreciate having you in my life up until this point but I would never expect to to stick by my side. I know we only been together for two months and I just told him. I've never gonNa meet another Josh Powell. I'm already in love with you. Levin Action IS LISTENING TO UNDERSTAND NOT TO REACT. All are welcome to come to the table and all are welcome to listen breast. Everyone welcome to another episode of the PODCAST. This your host Sean McCoy and so pardon me for this. Lose my voice. I went to speak and say something. I got a little something to my throat so I apologize to you guys and gals that are out there. It does not dampened by any stretch of the imagination This conversation and Yes for the time I Am excited about to sit down at the table with Bobby Pal and if you remember Charles Kirk episode of the gentleman who I met through Lincoln who put it out there for the world. Hey we need to talk about Mental Health. We talk about PTSD. I want the world to know that I've gone through this. There's a better way to do it. Get yourself some help. Had A great conversation with him. Hit it off just like a couple of military buddies do sometimes it just it really nice rapport with him. Well he tagged me in a post on unlinked in in something. You GotTa meet Josh. I I got the impression he was like. You need to meet Josh Powell. Or and then it was fob. Powell and I was like whoever you thank brother. I mean like it's fine with me. Let me know in he and then and so. He sent me a message that there was a there was a lady he wanted me to introduce introduce to and expect a phone call in was as hated as you talked to you yet and. I was sitting with my wife. And there's a number POPs up from some San San Luis Obispo in there in California. And I typically. When I don't get those numbers get those calls. You just never know who their from selling you insurance or less chance to get health care or whatnot but this. I remember going through town in wanted to wanted to answer and so so I did. And he's on the other line we spent about forty five minutes talking and it was like again. Was Charles Likable friends. Who just just kind of hit it off and just an experienced chewed some of the same dirt lot of different dirt but a lot of the same enough that listening to her I. It took me about a microseconds to think. No no we want to have her on because she has a perspective that she's going to bring we haven't quite heard from yet and I really want to bring this out here for people. Talk about a couple of different. There's all kinds of nuances that we can talk about. What kind of a couple of primary ones? The reason Josh Powell's name was put out there. Beginning is Josh Powell was her husband and he lost a battle. Almost a little over two nephews battled cancer if I remember correctly. Nobile Sarcoma and you know so she. She lost her husband to cancer or Army Ranger Point Grad. We'll talk about. I'm sure in what she's done with that. She started a foundation. Now those are may or may not know me out there in the world. That's that's one of those places. I know a few things about my wife and I in terms of our professional and personal time. And what we've done so we start talking about that Aaron. What she's doing and it really was a beautiful example of what I've seen so many times in the wake of these awful situations you know. We tend to do that. In this with our podcast. You know we've had Jennifer I can horse on. We've had a Chad. Miro on people that have really seen trauma and his most losing causing speed lose their lives. Have Your family losing lives. Now what do we do with this pain? And how do we react with it? And if you remember the Corrado episode and I think it's part of that journey what do you do when the harvest is not what you were hoping for is not what you want. What do you do with that energy? Because it's still there for you to deal with and how do you handle it and one of the things that I just? It just makes my heart sing when I see people like bobby who turn around and take this pain and the suffering and then instead of just an in look. There's no right or wrong here. I don't WanNa get the impression that there's some you have to do. When they take that and they go out and serve literally just serve. The hearts and minds of other people are going through this that that seems to me. It just seems to me and it makes me gives me hope you know it gives me hope. I've friends of mine who've lost children to cancer and so when you see them still laughing you still see them smiling. Still see them working through these things. It gives gives me a sense that we can go through the worst. And there's a chance there's hope that we're going to be okay Never the same. Never what we want with it. We're GONNA be alright and so after conversation. I made it real easy quick decision and so she's here today and thank you so much for taking time out of your day to come to the table. Yes no thank you so much for having me. I'm so glad that we were introduced through Charleston. Just that I get to be here today. Show a little bit about my story in perspective that I've gained through it awesome. So as you know here comes the fun part a little bit more about you so we have two thousand. Would you rather questions so you get to pick a number one through two thousand three times? We'll do our three normal questions and we'll get to know the bit more about you. All right. My first numbers thirteen thirteen have a special special place or is it just random number thirteen Josh's favorites number and just a number of that has been attached to me ever since we met so I gotta ask because thirteen is typically right typically that one there we avoid. You know someone that's supposed to be bad. What was it about thirteen? The made a special for him. I think it was one of his first sports numbers and he just stuck with it he just always if he had the opportunity to be thirteen anyways and my favorite number three so. I was totally fine with it. I'm like okay just out of one onto that or good sense. Go deal all right. So here's the question. Would you rather eat ice cream every day for a year or go without ice cream or two years? That's interesting you should say that. I actually normally don't buy ice cream. I have ice cream in my freezer right now that I've eaten the possibility that has been really good but I think I could go without ice cream bird two years ice cream. I love it but I just. It's not something that I would die without. So is there. Is there a dessert that you just have to have? I do have a sweet tooth so I do like to have something sweet after. Dinner doesn't have to be anything specific but it's typically not chocolate like maybe like a fruit tart or cheesecake. Or something. I don't have like one specific thing that I couldn't live without. I'll find some other sweet thing to love. This is a good place. Because there's some of those desserts that we we have to have so knicks number. And let's go with three since it's five off. Would you rather be an angel on your friends shoulder or a devil on your enemies shoulder? Oh an angel. My friend shoulder any friend. You thought any friend that you thought about this. Then I'll event of them. I feel like I try and be an angel on everyone shoulder. The people that I love I just want them to just enjoy life and see it through the best perspective and I just enjoy seeing my people happy and really finding things in life that make them feel like they have purpose. Live in all right. We'll get to our our standard three. Okay let's go with forty six six is would you rather have had their wet the bed or your significant other with the bid so you can laugh definitely my significant other? I am so embarrassed and I'm like a total perfectionist. So much rather laugh in Josh would definitely not mind being made fun of so much. Rather have that than me with that. I think it'd be. I think I would take that same man is and you feel like you should be able to like. It shouldn't be that big of a deal. The idea being that embarrassed but but if somebody else like if my wife did it said it'd be like Oh yeah in the in the world so for sure. I saw her standard three as we go into. This is the first one is in as as with all these questions. You can answer it however you want to whatever degree you feel comfortable. I wanted to be. What do you believe in? I've been told this many times throughout my life that I believe in love more than anybody that they've met before so I would say I believe in extraordinary love. I've I believe that exists. I know that I've had it and I believe that I could have it again. And I I believe in sharing that with the world So that more people believe that it can be possible for them as well. We just don't be the only thing that we were you. So you Aram Com fan. You like the sappy romantic movie type that more than that I just. I really love true stories. I love movies based off of true stories. Of course I love a happy ending when it comes to romantic comedies. That's always nice but Reality like true. Unconditional love through struggle and pain. I think is more important. You know I think movies that show in portray a loving relationship but also show the reality of life through that process. Is I get more attracted to movies like that than just your typical like happy-go-lucky. Everything's great we fall in love happily ever after. Yeah I'm trying hard not to jump ahead but will like this and so let's jump but before we do so let's get to this the second one. So what faith other than your own or what faith or any general faith? It's kind of outside your realm of what you believe. Would you say that you believe has had the greatest impact on you personally? Good or bad. I don't know if there's like one specific scenario. I think I'm very open minded person I. We've talked about this a little bit before but I'm not somebody who grew up with a family that went to church every Sunday but I was always really interested and intrigued with having a relationship with God and I would go with mostly every family or every friend that I had who had a family. That would go to church on Sundays. I would always go with him at some point in. I think I took something away from all of those experiences and I think for me my relationship I I felt like my relationship was more wherever I was. You know it wasn't necessarily going to church every Sunday that I felt made me have a strong relationship with God or made me have Strong faith and you know I had friends who were more man. I had friends who were Jewish and I think I was just always very open minded to their beliefs. I don't think anybody gave me this. Like Aha moment when it came to faith But like we talked about earlier recently at my life. I've had a lot of people who have come into my world who I just really respect and think that they're on a similar path as I am as far as making a difference in this world and leaving a better place than where we found it and all these people are you know a little bit more open with their faith than I am and do go to church frequently and I think that it's an area of my life that I am going to start exploring a little bit more Outside of my own personal relationship that I have with the Lord I think bringing people together through what I've been through in a place like a church would be really powerful. So I'm that's probably doesn't fully answer the question but There's not one specific scenario that I can think of. It's more just being open to other people's beliefs and understanding. Why they feel that way you know what their experiences are and have been which lead them to where they are now with with their own relationship with whatever they believe in. Don't believe in so well I would only disagree with one thing and that is whether or not answer. The question is whether it answered the question specifically. I would argue that. It was an answer that we needed. So yeah no I love that. It's beautiful instead of last question that we ask is what issue. This may be a nice segue into that. Your commentary actually is issued. You think it was the biggest issue church. The church currently the the typical organized. No building type church. We've been around for a while. What do you think the biggest issue that the Church has today? I think just like truly connecting with one another and feeling able to share all sectors of your life. You know and not feel like you can't because you would be judged George would it be appropriate or You know I've had friends who are extremely religious who go to church every Sunday and have gone through life experiences where their church shun them rather than accepted them and help them through Hard times and I think that's where I struggle and because it's not something that was drilled into me at a very young age as far as specific details in the Bible specific scriptures. You know this wasn't something that I learned. They're young so I've I've always felt really uncomfortable going to church a lot of times because I feel like maybe I'm the outsider. That doesn't know all the things already. You know. Even though I I believe in God and I do my best to be the best person that I can be and be kinda others in you know to serve and be selfless than do all of those things that were put on this earth to be right but I think just feeling comfortable and welcoming people in an experience where I have been welcomed. It just hasn't necessarily felt right kind of more of a production than an actual takeaway. I kind of Love listening to sermons online in my own home like I love the message. It's just I don't know some of churches in in Nashville. It's it's a huge production. Obviously there's a ton of musicians here who are so incredibly talented. And I I love that side of it but for me. I'm kind of like I want to go and listen to the message in appreciate you know the the musical side of it as well but have it just be lasted for production. Now that you say that knowing what I know about you know just a little bit about church. Production and especially the part of the worship side. Yeah I think. Think having being able to provide worship in nationals. Probably not all that difficult especially I mean the level of talent must be lily. Go by and grab some guy off the street come like I've never heard this song like this before. Yeah well I have to tell you that it's a couple of things you know. I think for me. That is the one of those catalysts. The idea there are people out there. That are suffering. They're going through something that don't have the opportunity. Don't feel like they can walk into that. Church is like I mean what? What other reason are we there? I mean this is where I am in my life in an upset people but I just I just don't think it's just so I can go someplace on Sunday. I'm okay right I mean that's that's the extent of it. I think we're missing it. I mean I'm saying that because I don't think it's my idea that's not. That's not real. According to Shawn McCoy. I think there's something else telling us we need to be a place for the orphans and widows and the those that are less fortunate and stuff like that so I think you mentioned. It's really interesting that you said about online in podcasts deal. I'm actually working with my Kirch. Were we do an online group on Sunday Nights? Around that. There's there is this technologies are pushing people where you can. You can be you watch youtube video of a sermon on a Tuesday at nine o'clock because that's when you have time right so if you're being fed hat why do you need to go down Sunday morning. It's and you can listen to podcast all the time channel time. This goes through in the morning when I go work out. I get up real early my thing as all. I'm listening to so I come. I'm not not just once a week and so if you imagine that I think the real issue there and I'm really curious to see how this goes from a overall standpoint so imagining your week in a week's time for you if all the things that are inputting all the input you're getting on a daily basis and if you have one hour maybe two on Sunday it's kind of the church message versus all that other input that's a that's a really hard thing to compete against. If you think about it in terms of influence and what you're getting the message you're hearing the the quality of the message and like you said there's at Tennessee. You WanNa make it attractive like Oh we have a cafe and everybody's smiling laughing and this is where the you know. The Fun is fun not feel comfortable and I get that. It's a challenge when you're supporting an organization. I want to take away from that. But then to your point it makes you feel like well. Gosh what if what if with? What if what if I just hate the world today right? What about hit anything about it. I just don't believe in love. Yeah that's where the heck with this a mad you allowing you. If you feel like why can't go there and be that way you know. What are we say a little bit of an and I think it can be? That's the part of the show I would do this negative. I don't want to bash. Is I do think what's is the most ultimately most frustrating is we can be those. Are that we. This is where your people you'd say it'd be. This is where the people are. Those people there be great. Yeah no I think it started to cut you off. I just want to add one thing. Joshua had conversations about religion very early in our relationship and I think we both agree that we didn't have the best experiences growing up. Although they were very different scenarios I grew up in a larger town in southern California and Josh groping a tiny town in in Kentucky and he went to church every Sunday religiously and it was just part of your life growing up in a in a small southern town and he had a similar experience to me where the people that we would go to church with. You know it was kind of like they. Wife was a free for all during the week and then on Sundays you you went and you did did the right thing by going to church. So you could say you went to church you know rather than living a godly life on a daily basis and trying to do your best in our outside of a church and so for a while. We looked around and we went to a couple of different churches and what we ended up deciding. That was best for us as we found a church that we love the pastor and enjoy his sermons every week and we would listen to them separately and we will take notes and we would then share our thoughts and I loved that because I mean Josh was going to cancer. And you know doesn't always up to be able to go out on Sunday and here I am a widow years later. The last thing you WanNa do is be out in public and you know you want the support but a lot of times you just want to be alone so I think there are plenty of amazing churches out there and I think there's amazing community is out there and I look forward to find finding one that makes sense for me But that's just been my experience thus far in my life. I just haven't really that hasn't been Part of my week is going to church every Sunday. But doesn't change my relationship so obviously. There's a great segue into you kind of mentioned you and Josh. I talking about in the beginning. So I'd love to start with How so tell us about? Josh tells about the cornerstone of why we're here a while. We're here talking today about him. Your relationship with him kind of kind of kind of set the table a bit. I mentioned earlier going to help us. Fill in some of those gaps and kind of help us understand Josh. You you guys met and Harry. I am last week can be here for days. loved food. Where do you start throwing dramatic like cross and I tell the longest one day this will be a movie so you'll get the detailed version But no so I like I said was born and raised in southern California. I was a medical institition and I I just want to go on a girl's trip to Nashville. Really one of my patients had told me she just got back. She's like in her mid forties. I think they came for like a Keith. Urban cancer or something she gets back and she's like bobby you have to go to Nashville. She's like you belong there. She's like I don't WanNa lose you like you have to go because I think you're supposed to move there and I'm like okay and I had been wanting to go for a long time in my best friend. Lauren who we live together all through college in our travel by these and I told her you know we need to go to Nashville. So we started looking at different events that were happening and in September twenty fourteen is when we decided to go jerrod Niemann was playing at the Reimann and the Titans. Were playing the cowboys. And we're like okay to cool events that we could go to our there so let's book it. We'll just so happens that we flat our other girlfriend. Amanda at the last minute decided to join us. Three Girls Often Nashville. We all love country. Music Group listening to it and All excited and we fly out on of course at the time. I didn't know this I was terrified. we flew out it on nine eleven. Which is Josh's birthday? It was our last actual day there. September fourteenth. We flew out on the fifteenth We went to the titans cowboys game. And then we decided we want to grab some lunch after so we went back to our favorite bar that we had gone to on our trip so fire which is honky-tonk central. And on the third floor. Josh happened to walk in with two of his buddies. They had just got stationed at Fort Campbell recently. I'm he had just graduated from Ranger School and we just locked is. He went to the restroom and I happen to be sitting right across from where he was standing waiting and I smiled at him and he kinda turned and looked behind him to make sure that I wasn't traveling at somebody else. It's all. I laughed and just told him to come over so he did his business and then came over and the rest of history like it was just one of those crazy times in life where you meet somebody in. It's like you've known them forever and I swear I probably did now him and another life but we just had this witty banter. He lied to me and he told me he worked in logistics because he thought he'd never seen and Of course nothing about the military. 'cause he was like scared that I would have like some negative opinion about it. Which yeah so do thousand fourteen? He was Oh okay. That's interesting okay. Yeah and it's funny. 'cause one of his friends that he was with actually did work in logistics. I guess don't know if they decided ahead of time. We'll just switch jobs logistics and so we spent all day all night and he wanted to stay the night and I was like okay. Now you can go back down. It was really nice meeting you and so the boys went back up to Fort Campbell and then I left the next day and we somehow lost Amanda somewhere in the mix of the next day he was like did you find. And we still haven't found her yet and so he was trying to help us. Obviously there's not much you can do. Amanda ended up showing up and we made it back home to California long story short. We facetime everyday since and fell in love very very quickly and I just. I'd never met anybody like him. He is this anomaly. Like THIS ARMY. Guy Who played football for West Point. He lived in Paris for a little while while he was going to West Point Spoke a little bit of French. My Dad's eastern European. So I found that to be very attractive. He's from this little small town in Kentucky but went to high school in Tampa loved to travel loved. Nice things small. Everyone was mom But he just loved to hunt and fish and do all these outdoorsy things but also the finer things in life. I'm like who are you? You were literally made Fermi. You're exactly the male version of me. Get checked yes and the room was I was. I was kind of joking with turns out. That's true yeah also and I always told people I'm like I swear. The person that I end up with is going to be a little piece of every single person that I've loved throughout my life like all the good parts right. I think that's what we all hope for. Is We take all the good parts that people that we've loved along the way and magically? There's this person who's all of those things and now is Josh and so two months end to ask dating. He got diagnosed with scenario wheel. Sarcoma which is a very very aggressive form of cancer that takes money people's lives unfortunately young lives a lot of the time and luckily has was contained than He gave me out right away. You know he was like Hey. Listen if this isn't something that you want to sign up for I wouldn't ever think anything less of you. You're one of the most incredible people I've ever met in. I appreciate having you in my life up until this point but I would never expect you to stick by my side only been together for two months and this is going to be a heavy road even though he knew he was going to beat it and as you know knocking to change much of his life other than you know the years leading up to him not having cancer and I just told him you know I i. I've never gonNa meet another Josh Powell. I'm already in love with you and I know that I can love you through this guy. There's anything that I know I can do it stat and you deserve that in so shortly after I moved out here From California is ready for a change. Any ways I fell in love with Nashville before I met Josh on that trip in. We just made a deal. I said I'm going to move out here. And if we spend the rest of our lives together be so happy but if for whatever reason I move out here in this relationship just goes in a different direction and we ended up. You know not together. I'm still going to stay here. I don't want you to feel like a movie out here just for you. Although you know like ninety eight percent of couldn't tell him that so fast forward I move out here and we adjust lived every single day like it could be relaxed and it was he proposed to an May of two thousand sixteen and then in We were told that there was nothing else that they could do as far as treatment options. Go he was in remission when he proposed and then they found out shortly after that his cancer had spread to his lungs and we try to couple treatment options in between then and and just none of them stopped the growth of the cancer cell and August. His oncologist at MD. Anderson told us if we weren't getting married until may twenty seventeen so traditional year engagement and she just told us she is like hairless and I don't have a crystal ball but I don't think Josh is GonNa love for another six months so you guys need to move your wedding date up so we just looked at each other and decided okay. Well let's move our wedding data we'll find a clinical trial in your Odyssey. GonNa beat the odds. Because you're Josh Powell you don't lose at anything and we talked about having our children Josh frozen sperm before. He started treatment as a lot of people. Young people do before they start treatment. You know in a relationship or not just as so you have option later in life and so that was his first concern when they told us the news that you know. It wasn't looking good. He was like well. What about our babies and I was like. Oh Gosh I don't know Let's do this one step at a time. Let's figure out our wedding and you know we have that as an option away and he just I'll never forget him telling me now it would be the coolest thing in the world to have a little may be able to live on after I'm gone and that still sticks with me. I still pay for Josh's firm every year so who knows what will happen. Maybe that will still be in the cards for us. But but yeah I mean. We went through a lot of heavy stuff in the short time that we were together. But if there's one thing that we didn't do is let cancer steal anything from US especially joy you know continuing to live life and experience everything that we would have. If cancer wasn't in the picture you know traveling and creating bucket lists and setting goals and making plans for future you know Josh had like his whole House that he wanted that we were gonna buy in like everything he wanted in Man Cave. And you know you never stops living as though cancer wasn't was gonna take it was always. I'm just gonNA live my life. I don't have control over this thing. That's trying to steal my life from me so I'm just GonNa continue on as if it's not you know. Of course you're gonNA live a little differently knowing that your chances of living along wife Probably aren't the odds aren't as high. But I thought that that was one of the most inspiring things about Josh what I try and instill in other people. Don't wait until you're facing a terminal illness or a a really challenging time in life to wake up to the fact that none of us are getting out of fear alive in. None of us know when that time is GonNa be so if nothing else I I like to share that side of the story and encourage people to grab life right now. You know by the horns ingest people in. I'll tell you I don't think you need to go to church and then you need to start a church. Just take all I mean. There's a lot turned back with all that in there so many things but I wanna start with kind of the obvious one. Which is you know I I this is not the easiest thing and I just want to tell you again. Thank you for coming into seven occurs. Come out and talk about it. You're not like I can see in here and you that Is these are. You're talking about some? You know some moments where this does. You could spend podcasts. Unpacking those moments That you've been through and all the things you just said so so I if we're most thank you for doing this and just honoring that home tar situation and tell us about it but I want to go back to look at the very beginning and ask you. Because there's a bit of uniqueness with that situation two months those of us have been around for a while. Two months is social. Relationship is is is not very long but you know. I think that's why some of us are Romantics that way because it you can. The intensity of something can be so much greater but that two month mark. I tried to think back in my life the idea of getting getting that two months after I met my wife that kind of news. You know that. So where where did that? This may sound like an odd question. But where did it come from in you to not run into not I mean? I'm sure he even told you. I like to many people would have been an argument against against that. I would've felt that you've done a disservice especially because I mean you're not morally joined engaged. You didn't have you know you weren't you weren't even married so it could have been like. Hey this is too much. This happens quite often with people in but you stayed and maybe help us understand that and what that was like for you. If you'd be so kind kind of unpacking your mind like wait like you just said I just got my. Here's my checklist. This guy didn't know it. I don't want to hear that from you. Want to let him know but he is hitting all the buttons right all. He's checking all. The boxes is pressing all the buttons and this button wasn't even on the radar which is still so. How did you unpack that in process and a bit such an interesting question? I'm so glad that you ask that because there are a lot of people in my life at that time that were like why would you sign up for something like this where you know? You're GonNa feel pain where you know that this could potentially end in not so great outcome in. I don't know if it's just that I'm an optimist or that. I just really really believe in extraordinary love but for me like there was never a question. I'm somebody who who has always followed my heart Entire life down to like like I was a ballerina. Growing up Blake hardcore gallery. Net could've easily become a professional ballerina at the time that I put in at such a young age and I addressed. My Heart. Was telling me that this isn't for you anymore. You know your heart's not in it anymore. So as much as you're going to hurt your mom and your dance teachers and everybody who had this dream for you. This is just. This isn't for me anymore so I followed my heart there. You know there's there's been so many pivotal points in my life where I just. I just trust that you know I. I know what I'm capable of and knew that Josh was placed in my life or reason. That's another thing I I always believe that I as Cliche as it sounds like everything happens for reason but there is a reason. I was in that bar that day and I met Josh and I was put into his life to show him to unconditional love that he didn't believe and he taught me more than I could've ever taught him and he would if he was sitting here right next to me he would tell you the exact opposite. You know he would tell you the reason why. I'm alive today because of this woman sitting next to me and and it was just one of those things like I knew the impact that I could have on his life and the impact that he could have on mine and it was just never a question. It was your person and I will go to the ends of the earth rely. No it's only been two months but I knew in the first forty eight hours to be honest and I knew in the first forty eight hours of being in Nashville that I could see myself living here. That was two days before I even met Josh. Right so yeah. I think there's certain big decisions in life that I just don't really depend on other people's opinions you know. Ask People's opinions about things. Like what color do you think? I should pay my walk this way or this way but but when it comes to big decisions like that. I just I know myself I I know what I can handle. I know what is right for me and I just I'd go with that and it really doesn't matter what other people would or wouldn't do in that situation because they're not me. They're not the ones who are going to have to live there. I would not be able to live my life. Not Living Him through his cancer diagnosis and running because it was going to be hard because at the end of the day I mean anything worth fighting for is going to be hard. And if that's part of what extraordinary love is risking feeling her pain when you sign up so love somebody unconditionally. At some point in your life with that person you're going to feel extraordinary hurt and extraordinary pain could be from you. Know One of you dying like in my case on but it could be so many other things you know. And that's just part of the deal. If you want to experience love on an extraordinary level you have to take extraordinary risk and for me. That's always been worth it. We could just call it right there and go but I wanNA. We talked about a little bit before in. I'm sure you had this experience. Colluded to it. There are people out there and I want to give a little bit of an opportunity to learn but definitely maybe some advice is to put their people that came in. I'm sure well I think most people me well right. That's the road to hills pay with good intentions but in terms of something like that when it comes to this time and I'm sure you saw it throughout his treatment. I'm sure you saw it different points kind of help us a little bit. Give us some perspective on your side of it and how you when those outside forces are just don't get it forces outright. There's nothing nefarious. These people care when when when those people whether it's whether it's that moment where he I know center like near the side like Bobby Sweetie. Yeah I know you believe in love but it's been it's been two months he may not make it or or it could be you know third or fourth treatment option. He's in remission now is coming back and just kind of a psycho forever. They who doesn't know that remission is is the is the r word you want to hear when when the cancer it goes away. There's no detection of disease kind of stuff and that's the point where you get five years past that you considered a survivor. If I remember correctly from from my experience that's the that's the goal is and so when these things come back and they the cancer comes back or you get the the the other bad. Were our words the these people around. How would you? Maybe Kinda help us understand what it's like to come alongside because a lot of your charity to. Segue into that but a lot. What you're doing there is is coming alongside as well. How would you talk to people out there wanting to come along some somebody who's in a similar or or similar experiences that you had yeah Something leading up to it like as far as me making this big decision in my life that I was already set in stone with. I think it's just being mindful that when somebody's sharing something with you about a decision that they've made they're not always asking for your opinion for me at that point. I didn't necessarily need like the PAT on the back like go you. This is awesome so excited for you but when I did get that it was nice. My family actually was extremely supportive. Which was amazing. You know I think my mom and dad have always trusted my opinion. I've always had a decent head on my shoulders. And they of course. They had their concerns but they encouraged me and I love that and I appreciated that from the people who did in the people who were more skeptical I think because I was twenty seven at the time or twenty six. I had respect for their. I guess point of view you know and I would listen. And it's kind of like what you say in the beginning of your podcast listening to understand and that's a really beautiful gift that I think. Age and wisdom help you gain but instead of like being defensive I would just listen to understand and then I would also go back to like okay. What's this person's relationship like? What kind of marriage do they have you know? And then a lot of those negative or they were trying to protect me from their own situation rather than like thinking of my situation being separate from there. So that's the before. I think the after part is the biggest challenge in something that I know you and I talked about touching on just because I'm so passionate about it but when you're thinking for being you know open on the podcast sharing my story truthfully. I'm thankful for you for giving me the opportunity to talk about Josh. I think grief and and death in loss is severi uncomfortable subject for a lot of people and I've come across that a lot in the last three years of my journey and I think it's something that we do need to talk about more because every single one of us if we haven't already is going to lose somebody close to us and I can't speak for everybody but I I know You know the many widows and people that I'm close to have lost others being involved with the foundation being involved with one people have lost close relatives and loved ones through sarcoma cancer and other reasons. I think most of US agree that it's so nice to be able to remember them and to have people who asks questions rather than compare it to something else or I remember early on. A lot of times at the conversation would go a little light. This like okay. I would bring up the fact that I lost my husband because it would naturally come up in conversation and then someone would say something like. Oh at least you guys didn't have kids you know. And it's I think people want to find something to say to make you feel better about your tragic situation but I think if you're a widow who had your husband for only one month any didn't advocates. That's painful as well. You know So I think just asking people you know. Would you mind if I ask you what your husband was like? I try and I still don't know what to say to people who somebody I just try and think of what I would hope somebody would say to me. You know and I think not addressing. The elephant in the room is much more painful than having somebody address it and I just actually. We went on a family vacation to Europe in. September is my stern I and my dad and my mom joined us at the tail end of the trip in we met up with some family friends along the way in. Italy and they don't know this L. Apologize call you out if you're listening but you know it's been at that point. It had been almost three years since Josh passed away. I'm you know still not dating anybody in my sister has since got married and and so that was a lot of topic of conversation was just like the exciting things surrounding my sister which is great. I love my sister. I'm so happy for her and have zero problem celebrating her in the exciting things in her life. But I think that people just didn't know what to say to me so they just didn't say anything at all like a guy have not accomplished anything in the last three years and you know no questions about. Are you dating anybody or like what's going on in your life even or so? I just made them uncomfortable by bringing conversations up on my own but I think the big lesson learned if you are somebody in my shoes who has lost somebody close to you and you're experiencing things like this. You can't blame people for not knowing the things that they just don't know yet and I think you need to feel comfortable teaching people how to how to treat you teaching people how to be there for you. Because that's GONNA look different for everybody. You know you could have. You could have lost your husband the same day I lost mine and you know you could have been together for the same amount of time at our experiences are going to be different in our needs are going to be different and I think part of it is instead of sitting in your house. You know upset that people don't get it. I think speaking about it in and helping people understand how they can be there for you. Better and Addressing the elephant in the room. I think we talked about this. This is a pivotal point in migrelief journey. I just started my career job again. After Josh passed away a little over a year ago after starting the nonprofit in one of the girls who have become really close with who works out of Florida. So we don't see each other often but we're driving from the airport to our destination. She was like. I would want to ask you questions about Josh. But I don't want to like upset you you know. I feel like you're so happy right now. I don't want to bring up anything. That's going to make you sad. I'm like Oh my gosh. I'm so glad that you said that out loud in that I can share this with you and at some point in in life. I think you'll experience something like this and understand where I'm coming from. But people like myself who have lost their other half you know such a significant person in their life. Or you know for Josh's mom who lost her son. You don't ever go a minute without remembering that. They're not here. You know every day. There's painful parts of your day and you know moments where it's just hard not having them here and realizing that you're GonNa have all these experiences in life that you don't share with them anymore so when somebody brings them up it's actually for me It's one of the most joyful parts of my day to be able to remember him and to share what amazing person he was and how much we loved each other and instead of thinking as if it's going to be a trigger like a pain point for somebody we never forget. There's not a moment in time that we ever forget. You know we just put on a happy face in keep going. Because that's what you have to do. But being able to remember them is such an honor and so special and so appreciated when the opportunity comes about when someone takes the time to ask those kinds of questions and to address the elephant in the room. I just hope that the word I keep thinking about what you're saying. That was wisdom and I really hope that people that are listening if you get a chance to even listen again and I think it's not that I'm the you know the purveyor the understanding of all things that are wise but my experience around this world as we talked about before Ever whatever that's worth a lot so many things what you're saying just there's some truism in there so in part of that hope of this conversation around this type of subject was to help encourage people It's okay to not know is okay to be uncomfortable. It's okay to think I don't know what the heck I'm doing so maybe this is an opportunity and I think too. There's a chance I kind of alluded to it way back up. I can stretch this not not waiting until something bad happens to then become close to somebody not waiting develop digital ships along side them in some capacity when something like this does happen it due to do something like after the fact can be very difficult. Some of the can't be done sometimes. It's it just happens that way because of other reasons but this is why I think it's so important beforehand to have those people that are close and developed as relationships when it does happen in this way in there's more to go off of other than just the nature of the tragedy that becomes the connection unless there's other circumstances nope that makes sense but But you talk about being able to honor his memory and I think this is a great segue possibly into that you. It's not just something. That's not where the story relates ended in it and it for for a lot of people have been blessed out of the ashes of what you're talking about with your foundation. We talked about that before and we talked about our our connection in that. Were a little bit that an estimated earlier that it's it's deceit at an. It's one thing to hear it. It's one thing to hear these kinds of things in this year. That you miss somebody again. Not say there's a certain way to do this. But what you have now done with With Josh Powell Foundation and I'll be honest with which is really interesting. I Dunno whatever degree when I first saw that nick. My first one. I see that I kind of know what that means. Typically when somebody's names foundation you they were really really rich or anymore is just gonna. Kinda guest on the timing. No fence was that I thought because it was ranger background. I thought especially with the way things have gone that we lost him. Combat especially with Charles's re reference. I thought Oh somebody you know over influenza something like that and had done something somewhere in that it wasn't that at all and it was cancer in so help ass- so now in the in the in the midst of this and maybe if you want to whatever degree that you know when that when when it happens when when now that that if I can Because I know about about it but let me tell a little bit around if you'd like to. What when when it is when it does happen when when that thing that you don't ever want to have happen happens in in the shadow of that you started this foundation in his honor and what that has meant to his. Mary hug able to do things with it. Yeah again. This is like strictly based off of my personal experience. I know that everybody handles grief differently. And not journey may look totally different to you but for me what made the most sense is. Here's this twenty seven year old amazing human. Being who has just enriched my life in the most incredible way passes away or you know gets his life taken from this disease that he had no control over. It's just kind of a wakeup call and for me was. It wasn't a question as like what I should do next. I I knew that Joshua's life deserves a legacy. You Know I. I knew that his life in the way that he chose delivered had the potential to inspire empower a lot of people And I knew that there was a lot of people who are going to come after him and so it just seems selfish of me to keep that. Oughta myself you know. Keep everything that he taught me and just use it to benefit my life. I knew that if it did that for me could do that on such a larger scale and also just the messages that came pouring in after he passed away From every chapter of his life I had people reaching out sharing specific stories on how Josh impacted them. And then people from my life sharing similar stories of how I've impacted them a positive way in our love story has impacted them in a positive way. So unlike okay we'll shoot. I already knew that this was supposed to exist but these people unintentionally are making this decision. A very easy one And then I had Josh wrote in a journal all the time but many journals all the time actually and so I had. He told me never to read them. And so naturally the day after he passed away I read them and and his reasoning wasn't like anything crazy he just. He had like how he wanted to propose and like just detailed information that he never want me to read while he was here but I think he knew what he was doing. As far as you know leaving some some things in there that that alluded to wanting to create this legacy and I think it's I mean in a perfect world. He wanted to do this here after he survived. Sarcoma cancer so I took it upon myself to create that legacy for him and the idea behind it is just to help people understand that they have a choice. You know and I know that this isn't for everybody but I know that it has helped a lot of people realizing Matt we're all going to face adversity at some point in our life if we haven't already or if we haven't already multiple times that you can either be a victim and give power the thing that's trying to take you down whether it be cancer addiction depression whatever it is or you can somehow dig deep and find a way to choose resilience in the face of whatever monster demons may be and Josh just portrayed that in such a way he just he was never a victim. He saw cancers bump in the road he never asked why me he just took it in stride and he kept living despite every single challenge. You know he had botched surgeries. He had so many negligent situations happen at. You know the hospital before we got to. Md Anderson and he had so many reasons to be angry and he chose joy he chose to create a major league bucket list with me to all the different Major League baseball stadiums. He you know his surgeon said you'll never ride a motorcycle again and he was like screw you. I'M GONNA ride a motorcycle. You know He would go. He had a wound vac because of a botched surgery. And of course you're not supposed to be like in water anything Josh slipping and sliding down a bunch of trash bags with soap on on the fourth of July. Like at some point you just have to keep living despite whatever it is. You're facing you know and when you do that you not only inspire other people who are watching that you don't even realize but you basically kill the thing that's trying to kill you you you don't give it any power and a lot of people. I think I've seen it happen in. I know that I can only speak on behalf of my experience being the loved. One have somebody who who went through a cancer diagnosis and Ultimately ended up losing their life. But there's many people who just got diagnosed with cancer and just write off their life or you know this is it and it was such a beautiful thing to see him. Just come alive. Despite that that Shitty hand of cards he was dealt and it made me in. Hindsight was my lesson to as a twenty nine year old widow who just married the love of her life and he was taken from me so shortly after that before we got to experience all the really good stuff was. Don't you dare lay in bed everyday and cry and feel sorry for yourself. You still get to be here and you still have your mark to leave on this world and if Josh could get up and go play eighteen holes of golf. You know after six around the chemo. I can get my butt out of bed and make something of this guy you know and and my my whole thing was finding purpose within the pain. You know. This isn't my story for no reason. Josh Diet Twenty seven years old from a really rare shitty form of cancer for no reason and I have to find the reason in that. And that's what helped me to keep going. Which is what Our slogan is and Josh. Made these keep going Wrist bands when he was battling sarcoma cancer and I had them write this. Keep going statement to explain what that means to have. What is keep going me using me. In what if people were to receive this? What's the message that goes along with that and that's in the back of my mind every single day you know and and that's kind of what his legacy does is we? We get introduced. Cities Patients On their first day of treatment they're presented with what's called a Powell. Pack and in the power pack is Josh's keep going statement a little bit about his story the keep going everyday easy restaurants and functional items that they would take with them to treatment that they would need any ways that have motivational on sayings on them and just focusing on that strong mindset again. I'm sure there's people who received this in our like what the hell is. This is the last thing I need right now. But but the people who take the time to read it resonates with them. It's that I have a choice. You're I just got the shittiest news of my life and I can neither what this grew in my life or I can let this propel me and do things that I love to do and I will continue to do them despite this thing. That's trying to take me down. And in that is our mission statement in the ripple effect. It's inspiring the world one battle a time. It's not just about Josh. There's hundreds and thousands of Josh's out there it's about providing a platform for them and encouraging them to continue that mindset that they've had their whole life and to continue that through. You know the cancer diagnosis or whatever. Should he news? It is that you here And to rise above and so watching that come to fruition and watching for example we owe Cole was one of the Sarcoma patients that we supported locally He Lost Cancer. I don't say lost his battle because I I never think they lose their battle. I think it's just taken from them. But cancer took Leo's life on December sixth and to be able to hear the testimonials from his family. On what the Josh Powell Foundation was was able to support him with we sponsored his softball team which was the love of his life. He is like if I could play softball. I'm GonNA survive this cancer. And so his mom just told me the other day. She's like thank you for gifting. My child an extra year and a half of his life by allowing him to continue to do what he lives. And which also gave him the opportunity to meet his fiancee and and It's just really powerful to see this dream and this hope that you have in your mind of creating this legacy and then to see it actually do what it was intended to do and to be able to now do it on a much bigger scale. We just had our biggest charity event A couple of weeks ago on December nineteenth and we raised twenty thousand dollars which is huge. Because I'm a one man show up until now you know I've got people out of the or wanting to help and join forces but to go from like maybe raise in two thousand dollars to twenty thousand dollars in one day was pretty incredible to see and Just to see the impact that sharing our stories and our struggles what that can have on other people and I think we minimize that a lot of the time. We don't realize you know the small things that we do in our life if it's simply just sharing something that you've struggled with that maybe somebody who thinks that they're alone may think there's nobody else on this earth who is feeling the same way that I am and then you hear. Somebody share their own struggle on. You're like Oh my gosh I'm not on. I remember when I was just listening to Jennifer's podcast with you about her neighbor. It's it's so powerful to share your story. I'm telling you the people that I've connected with. It's almost on a daily basis at this point that I meet them in of course early on in conversation. Like why'd you move to Nashville? What do you do for a living like every answer to every question? There's no hiding that. I'm a thirty two year old widow. Who runs a foundation on a relate has been? It's very hard to hide that. And it's something sorry go ahead. You don't tell you you do logistics with you. That should be the thing that I say right because people sometimes are like. Whoa is not expecting to hear all that and then some people are like. Oh my gosh like I was so inspired. I've been through this that This in my life and it just opens up real conversations and I think that's another whole another topic but I just immature believer in connecting with other people. I think we're all better together and you never know who the person sitting next to you. Is I know that ever since Josh passed away have been much more open to having conversations with strangers in in not just being in my bubble you know and I'm just GonNa go from point. A. TO POINT B. Important to see and go back home today like gotTa stop in connect with people and in really listen to understand and and I don't fault people for saying stupid things in my mind at the time you're like why would you ever say that that so offensive you know to something that is just so painful and so fresh in so close to your heart. It's kind of just going back to you. Don't know what you don't know. And if you're not listening to other people's experiences in trying to understand their perspective I think it's very easy to cast judgment. Which is a whole different ballgame when it comes to dating after you lost a spouse and you know what's the right timeframe. Are People going to judge me if I do this? You know so there's different. Things has ten years but he knew she doesn't. She can hear desert headphones. But if you hear a couple of dogs on the way those are those Frenchies that's older no worries of you hear that you're not getting her babies but I wanted to go back a little bit. Kinda add a little a little perspective on what you just said about What you guys do that with your with your with your pal so a lot of you know Mitch on my wife quite a bit in this podcast. And she's worked for Texas Children's Cancer Center which is next to Md. Anderson where your husband was treated down here in Houston so we know a bit about that world and and that's how we met was at a board meeting I've served on boards of nonprofits that you have Many of them and it's just been surreal life changing experience to be around all those kinds of things but I do wanNA speak to what. She's talking about a lot of times there. There's incredible amount of money that's needed and sent to and it's great for things like research to keep right. I mean what else could there be besides keeping somebody alive what we should all go to research should all go to how you treat. Somebody should have to make sure that they get well that. I don't think anybody would argue with that. I think there is a little bit of a nuance in amongst all that starts to happen and it was really brought to my mind. Dr David pop lack. Who Got The godfather if you look at pediatric cancer and you look at this gentleman? My wife worked for him has worked for him Twenty seven years. He just recently retired He he's an. I met him before I met her He's like this age when he starts talking about stuff. You just about listening He he could lose anything. I'll just show up and listen. He changed my life and one of the reasons he changed it. Because in addition to amazing using mapping the genetic code comparing it to protocols and cancer and all these other stuff you know modifying treatment and immunotherapy and nanotechnology around bring his down here in Houston specifically cancercenter incredible credible research cutting edge. I would argue the biggest. It is the biggest physically and also had the most amazing technology and people but the thing that he talked about. That threw me for a loop and it speaks to what what bobby is doing with their foundation. Is he remember the first time I heard him say this? He said if you heal somebody physically. And they're not healed in their soul and their heart in their family members aren't healed as well from the trauma of getting that message of getting that. Just the diagnosis is traumatic enough. But then that experience wherever that experience goes all of that good or bad is going to be traumatic trump. There's GonNa be trauma there. There's going to be something to deal with their if you haven't healed their soul they're still sick and when he said that to me years ago. I just remember thinking in my head. I'm like well I'm done. I know what I WANNA do. I WANNA be around Is this kind of this kind of mentality. 'cause I for me. It just made a hundred percent since since I want to give a little bit of a little bit of cleared if those may not be as aware and I don't mean insult anybody but so when you get that that that opportunity to get that packet that says your alongside somebody part of what she's talking about is if you can come alongside somebody and sharing that with them and let them know in their soul that they're not alone and to give them that thing to cry against what her husband's saying keep going never quit. Do not do not ever give up. Keep keep fighting right. We've all been there. You know what it's like to quit. That's there's all kinds of reasons to quit for all kinds of things but I think also in this situation. It's that in if you even if you lose that battle physically we're still talking about Josh. Josh is still impacting people. If obviously will impact people in not just raising a bunch of money for research. It's it is you get to touch the hearts of somebody's sitting there getting that message that she got and it's and there's no. I don't think there's anything that will be prepared for this at all. I was in the Pediatric Cancer Center. World for for years before. My nephew is diagnosed with cancer at one years old and it was sitting in the room talking to a doctor that I knew personally who has spent time with her first name and I wasn't ready. I was a wreck in. So you can even know it in having you can know all the fancy words. I knew all the doctors had helped him and my wife knew mean better than I did. It didn't help us. That doesn't help but does help us this opportunity to get in there in love somebody so what? I want to give a lot of credit to. What the foundation's doing in terms of that package that I think this this. Here's this gift that comes along side and says hey we're you know we're here with you hear something that you want. Here's here's Josh Story and take it so. I wanted to give some credence to that in the NASA. So now on top of that one to ask you a question. So in that vein is Is that why you do that? Because you went to GonNa Mention Your hospital experience and I don't want to say anything bad but I've heard this a lot in my time where hospitals that may be not as Experienced don't have the staffing don't have the knowledge and whereabouts are knowledgeable in how to especially how to treat certain acutely difficult especially the more rare aggressive type cancers Are overwhelmed and they just don't know even their doctors nurses look all their people. But when you go to places like Andy Anderson when you come to the Texas Medical Center like this is this is one of those. You Talk About Ground Zero for this kind of stuff. It's it's all there But kind of speak to wear that instead of going to all the research what was it. Not The front load is expected. But what was it was? It wasn't all that to Kinda cute you into wanting to do it that way as far as for me because sarcoma cancer is just not very advanced when it comes to research. There's not great treatment options. There's over a hundred different subtypes so it's considered rare although sarcoma as a whole you know. I can name five people that I've met in the last three months who I've been touched by sarcoma cancer just in Nashville so for me was I know of other people who are actively trying to find a cure and where all of the funds go to research and I think that's amazing and actually our foundation does give some portion of our proceeds to that because it is such an import. I mean we wouldn't be here if if we had a cure right so we we do focus on that and support on this foundations. But what I think. There's not enough support for is the mindset side of it. You know what is going to help this person get through the next two years five years twenty years of their life after hearing you know at thirteen years old third diagnosed with a form of cancer that is more than likely. GonNa Take Your Life in two years you know. There's not enough advanced bent so knowing that Sarcoma cancer outcomes are so shitty. I WanNa do whatever I can. Tangibly support these people from day one and let them know that no matter what the outcome is. Mere Josh Chadha Quote Leo actually ended up getting tattooed on him but miracles happen every day. Why not me? It's true. I mean no matter what your odds are their odds and Josh never bought into the this is one of the shittiest forms of cancer. This is GonNa take your life. He just he didn't have any control over that. So he focused on the controllable things that was continuing to do the things in his life that he loved in continuing to make plans for a future that he intended on having and I think that's a priceless gift at this stage in the game. You know as to to make sure that the LEO's of the world can continue to play softball at twenty five years old. Because that's what he loves to do and through that he gets to leave his mark on this world. I mean I. I didn't even know how Leo is still alive. When I'm I'm like you've had metastatic sarcoma since I've met you. All odds are against you. You shouldn't be here right now but you are and so I wanNA do whatever I can in my power to make whatever time that you have left the best time. And if that's getting you assign Chipper Jones Jersey or getting you to throw the first pitch at a college baseball game Or continuing to play softball at your buddies like. I'M GONNA do that. Because at the end of the day that to me is what matters you know and his family gets to look back and see. The last few years of his life lived fully and filled with experiences that he may be wouldn't have had otherwise So that's where it came from. You know it was. How Josh did this so well and we were so blessed financially just because he was in the military. We had a lot of support that way financially that we are blessed to still be able to travel and do the things that we loved while facing this. I'm very aware that this not everybody. Has that same circumstance? And I wanted the Josh Powell Foundation to be able to offer that same kind of support to the people who who need it in want it and to make again whatever time they have on this earth worthwhile and if it is a short period of time that they can leave this earth knowing that they left a mark by inspiring people through their own personal at so we talked about in the beginning. Talked about kind of where you were spiritually bit. We talked about your journey there. We talked Jennifer stories and others. Things we've talked about some other people. There was a there was a driver. There's people involved in a lot of those other stories around trauma there's in around these traumatic incidents as loss of life. You can kind of point at the reason You kind of alluded to it before with cancer. Why not me? It's the thing that you know like. I said my wife and I were involved for years and she did it. Get your career to raising money for cancer and my nephew got right. So it's kind of like well. There's not really fair right. Shouldn't be US exactly that same way as well. There's no reason why kids today won't get it right. There's no there's nothing that says that that won't happen without getting too is in the shadow of that though. We tend to look up for that type of like okay. God where I mean why is your I mean. I'm sure on some level I'm just gonNA guess and if I'm wrong correct me but like you said you. Here's here it is right. Here's the here's the love story. It's it's happening in real life and cycle. Hey this wasn't part of this wasn't part of my story. This wasn't part of that in that in that realm. Did you find yourself kind of shutting? Got a little bit. I don't really hear that from you. Not The front loaded a little bit. But I don't hear that blame anywhere but can you speak a little bit because that is somewhere people go there. Like will where he's got. Another said is usually the base argument for people when they get upset about the idea or they start to debate right here the debates and they're always going back and forth and it's all you can do all the other stuff and sounds good but then all of a sudden somebody will say will and I think it's legitimate argument if God is so good if God's existing and he's all powerful why would he create this wonderful person. Josh Powell here it is it's lining up and then this happens so maybe it takes a little bit down that road a bit And so that's I've never really gone there in my life. I've never really questioned like why me or why Josh. Or 'cause I just feel like it's a never ending spiral if you're not going to get anywhere without for me at least and no one ever said that life was going to be easy and that everything matter. How great of a person you are that you weren't GonNa have challenges and heartbreak in extremely painful experiences. I think for me. It's what you do with those experiences. After and choosing to start the foundation I trusted fully in God and Josh to guide me in that journey. And they've shown up every single time and they have placed the most incredible people in my path to help give this longevity and give me the support and the power for it to become what it has thus far and I mean sky's the limit. I know twenty twenty. It's GONNA be a crazy year for the foundation. I know it's just GONNA get bigger. Give us the opportunity to help more and more people and a firm. Yeah that's kind of always been the answer. All never know why you know why Josh and why at twenty seven you know and and why we only got to spend the short period of time that we did but I think just having a positive mindset a grateful heart allows me to continue to keep moving forward and not get stuck in the the wise and just again finding purpose within my pain and being able to help other people through this journey that I've been through and to reach them very early on and to to help them understand that they're not alone in that no matter how bad it gets that they're going to get through this. I think that's part of the why. I think the impact that Josh has left on this world and that his legacy has left at our love story has left and will continue to leave is so powerful. And maybe that's part of the why I don't i. I don't know but for me it. Just I don't -CCOMPLISH anything by being angry at God for having this pan out the way that it it did I. I don't know why I just I don't go there but I just lean on. I prayed Josh. I pray to cut and I just pray for guidance and that you know what I'm doing is making a difference in that of it's not guided me in the right direction. You know. Send the right people in my life. Who will allow this to not be so taxing but to to bring me joy and to bring other people peace with the challenging things that are going to happen in their lives and I don't know that's such a good question but I just have never found myself in that position like yeah. I get frustrated in all. Am bed at night in all crying. I'll be angry but it's more like why can't you be here with me right now? Life is so much harder without you and it was so amazing joyful with you by my side but I I feel him with me all the time. I know I'm going to see him again. And it's just such a short blink of an eye until that day comes. I want my life to be as meaningful as possible leading up to that point when to ask a little bit about. What would you love to see? Sky Sky High Limit Right. There's a you know that that's where it is. There is there is no limit really wear but but to that. Where do you see the foundation? What would you love to see the foundation do going forward? You have big dreams because Big Dreams don't WANNA big aspirated. I would like to at some point. Eight see the foundation touching so many different types of adversity. I I would like to shed light on all the things that we all go through and to continue to be a platform for people who want their story to be heard and wanted to help encourage and inspire and empower other people who are going through similar situations to see like. I've been in your shoes personally and look where I'm at now. I survived the worst of the worst. Or I'm not here anymore but look at what my legacy is doing because of the way I chose to live my life despite the adversity I was facing. That's where I would love to see. The foundation go because Josh was connected to so many different things in his life. I know that supporting sarcoma cancer patients is first and foremost but I know there's so many different other layers to that I've connected with all kinds of different pupil who face adversity. Actually the reason why keep going statement exists is because I had a CO worker at the time who was just struggling choosers posting really dark stuff on social media and so I reached out to her and astor for address. And I was GONNA send her one of Josh's wristband that he had made an. I told him I was like. Hey Babe Have this friend of mine. Who's going through a tough time? And not exactly sure what's going on. But I want to send her a wristband and I think it'd be helpful if you wrote something out that explained like what this was all about and So that's how the keep going statement was born. That's how that even exists. And it turns out that she was addicted to heroin at the time and had lost custody of both children and was just in a downward spiral and just to have somebody from her past reach out and want to share their struggle with what they're dealing with and to show her that she's not alone she and I are still in close contact. She's three years sober. And just there's so many different people who can be impacted in a positive way through everyone's struggle or battle if you will as it states in our mission statement and I want to shed light on those battles. I don't want those to be things that we hold sacred to ourselves you know that we don't share because it's not Rambos in butterflies. I think we all grow and have a better understanding of each other. And that's where that connection is born when we do dig deep early on relationships with people on early on in conversations with people and not necessarily you know huge controversial topics that could go south really quickly but just humanizing yourself to one another and we talked about this a little bit before. Is You know judging the book by its cover. I've had a lot of people who have told me based vase like out of never talk to you normally like you're just not somebody that we've ever had a conversation with like you're the opposite of me You know you're blond girl from southern California. Who looks like she has all of our stuff together? And I'm so grateful that I took the time to listen to your story. You've impacted me in a way that I just never thought it would be possible and I think number one occurs to admit that to somebody is amazing And then to take that and let it change the way that you you interact with people in in view other people and I think by sharing our stories. That's how we all grow. I don't even remember what started this. I don't either. This is where these things go into that. I think we're you know we're an hour and a half I think with all that's been says I didn't think about it. I definitely have you back on again. I think this is a good as good a place. You're going to get because I think if we can go forever. It'll be to twenty-six instead of six so I wanted as as we talked about. I'd love to pray us out and then we can talk a little bit how to get a hold of you in the foundation and then we'll go from there are. I sounds good all right. Please join me dear. God I I sit here and listen to FOB. Story and Josh Story. I keep hearing as she said everybody story. There's a potential for everybody story in there and it's not the takeaway from uniqueness what they've done but it's around just the suffering that it's something that how can a going to cancer quote. It's meant to do this. Really Pike came. You could have been applied game ranger school. It could have been applied to getting through just anything alive. Help a heroin addict. Help any of us do to get through these tough times. It really the core of this S asking this question of when they're suffering. What do we do? And what a what a beautiful sentiment that. I think we can all just take a moment to just let it challenges not just to admire. I don't think that's what Fob You and what Josh would want. They don't want admiration. They don't want that they won't be able to come alongside. They won't be this to others. They want people he doesn't want him to look at a guy they can't be. He wants you to be like him. Don't give up as she said she's not looking to be at the top or to be better than anybody else she wants to other people to come alongside and just hear so much of of you in her in this story just where it's at and the potential for the beauty of it in all the an the sadness and the grief but also this the the beautiful love grace and humility in joy as she said. I mean it's just it just hear it and I wanna I was one of the fray over all of the PAL family and all of everybody that's involved both sides and the friends that she should lose you briefly that the new him that came out of the woodwork. When when he passed it just twenty seven. There were more than just the people that she thought of. That came out remembered him as. I'm sure if you know you've been impacted by her in her life and and how they would come out to say. Let me tell you more about her and just what you think you know and the Dick because what we do the underlying current. There's what we do on a daily and how we treat people it matters just matters and we have the ability to make an impact. You don't have to be a west point graduate. Who was an army ranger? You don't have to be somebody. Who's financially huge? I mean what what a humble moment here talk about just a couple of thousand dollars now to twenty and that we hear this millions and billions here and all the rest of this stuff but what you can do with a few hundred bucks to help change. Leo's life and push them in. It doesn't take all that much and it's more than just the numbers. It's more than these things. I just asked him what to say. A prayer for her in her heart and just Just to keep that steadfastness that strengthen her and to help her win. Those moments are when it is joy is not happiness. I thank God for that in her. That that's it's not about just finding that happiness all the time because we're not it's going to be on both sides if we can stay in the middle of the state true that ideal and I think that picture that she posted its Josh in the hospital room. And he's smiling and I just thought I looked at a small nothing. It's bobby small but just I saw something in that smile. He's wearing a he's in a he's an he's hospital room where we're in. The you know the thing we all see in going through. I don't know what's was a moment but I'm sure it was not where even want to be. I know that for sure but still in the midst of that Dr. What we look at as darkness and that we keep thinking darkness is wrong. We got your in all things that he you're in him at that moment and it came through in him and we keep we saw that from before and how important is think of this way before. Don't wait until to look as if she sits beautifully earlier. Don't wait until something like this happens to. Now go look for joy joy. We can have it now. You can have now and it's not that you live. Life recklessly sent that you just do anything on a whim. But it's the quality of what you're doing or your heart set where you're putting your heart into. It could just be going to get a cup of coffee with somebody that you care about and it could just be laughing about something. Silly doesn't have to be super serious all the time but when it does come when the when the challenges come in the hills and valleys come. What are you GonNa do what we can pull over to the side of the road? We call it. We can ask somebody else to drive where we can keep going as As it was said so I just pray for that for her role pal family all those out there listening that had been impacted by him in the miss him. I pray for them to define that Kurds keep going whatever adversity they have in their life. They can do that. We just pray for the Lord and I just WanNa say thank you for your time. Thank you for what she's doing. Pray for the foundation for its future. Whatever that may be Lord. I'm excited as odd as it may sound to see what happens next. All she's doing in all parts of her life and everything around this and what's going to happen with this foundation just her pray for that and pray for anyone out there. Who's in that same boat who doesn't feel like it's for them as well? It is for you Joyce for all of us and love is for all of us we its one of the few things we can give and still keep in share with people and truly do that and so. I just I just love love this. I love this time so grateful for this and I just WanNa say all of this in the spirit of the Christ. It always feels always feels weird coming off a prayer. You know we'll how you know. How can we promote? The book is do whatever but any of that stuff. You know the the we'll link the foundation and everything else you WANNA share in terms how people can make it in contact with you may want to support organization. Find out what they can do. Y'All what you're doing. Yeah style you can post a lot on lengthen We have a good following on Lincoln. Actually that's just undermining Bobby Powell and then our social media platforms are under Josh Powell Foundation. And then our website is Josh Powell Foundation dot work. And Yeah if you guys were impacted by this this podcast or just WANNA learn more. WanNa learn how to get involved? Those are all platforms that you can reach us at. Just WanNa leave you guys with one last message if you didn't feel direct connection to this podcast Or You haven't experienced significant loss in your life you don't have to live your life to the fullest and again that's my biggest thing is just making sure that the time that we spend here on this earth the time that were gifted with. Because we know it's going to be forever is spent loving unconditionally loving the people who you surround yourself with on a daily basis and not sweating the small staff you know. Cancer definitely puts life into perspective really quickly. In in that sense it was a huge blessing to our relationship to be able to just gain an amazing life perspective and to know early early early on in our relationship. What's important and I think. A lot of us just get caught up in the everyday life and just get an are routine and get mad about silly trivial things and don't wait you know. Go fulfill your bucket list. Go on that trip. You've been wanting to go on. You know tell that person that you've had a crush on for years that you love them out just just don't wait. Time is is a gift. And we're not guaranteed tomorrow so I think if we all lived reality every day this world would be a little bit better of a place. So I'm an Masimov wife. She used to go. We were getting ready to go Nova. We had a chance to go to Disneyworld and other stuff and you know. There's money in cost three kids and it really. It was just that exact idea of that experience. It's not that you reckless. It's just it's just that. What is it worth in the end? As far as that goes and I'm glad we Took the trip stick trips disneyworld to be all crazy because that's another story but that could be family game night. I mean I don't. I don't need any help promoting it and your financial beautiful words again. Just again. I'll say it again. I think I don't think you need to go to church. There may be a chance to the plant. One start one. I really do mean that suggest. Well again thank you so much Beautiful Time thank. You think you're doing this and I'm looking forward to what's come on all right with us. We heart takes away. Thank you for listening to the come to the table. Podcast subscribe by finding US wherever you listen to podcasts. And you can find links to all of them on our website at. Www dot the come to the table. Podcast DOT COM. We'd also love to hear from you. Reach out to Sean. By sending an email to Shawn at the come to the table. Podcasts DOT COM. Follow us on facebook instagram and on twitter. Thanks for listening and God. Bless everyone
Ep. 16: Chasing Leads
"This podcast discusses domestic violence criminal behavior. Murder and adult themes while not explicit. Listener discretion is advised. Snowflakes swirled outside the flying j travel center in lake point Utah. They danced on the wind that also buffeted big rigs on the nearby interstate. Denise worked the register alone. The only other employees on shift at the time was out shoveling snow off the walks. It was round midnight twelve thirty. And I lose busier than normal because of this the storm it was coming down like crazy. Someone shouted. Hey, Charlie across the store a few moments later, a man in a leather jacket stepped up to the counter, this is really Tom man carrying a baby and says is there anything else for you tonight? And I look down at his stuff, and it was rescued tape. A pair of smaller gloved hands dropped a couple of other items on the counter, crackers and liquorice. Denise glanced up to see a woman standing by the man smiling. So I looked up and I made I contact with her. And then the dad said hang on a minute. Let me by this stuff. And then we'll go camping so quickly. I turned around and I looked out the window because. A new snow might crazy. And I looked over at the RV islands. It was just behind my right shoulder. And there was nobody there. There was no RV's or anything there in camp and this and so I turned a little bit further and I seen the Silverman events set. Non pump six Denise thought. This woman looked very well put together, especially considering it was nearly one AM, but she also noticed red rings around the woman's is as if she had been crying. The toddler in the man's arms stirred, and he looked at his mom, and I looked at his little nose. He was just such a cute little, man. His little nose was all scrunched up. And I says, well, he doesn't look too happy about going camping. And she did the mom thing rubbed his little cheeks and smiles and says, yeah, he's pretty tired. The mom scooped the boy from the man's arm and walked over to the door joining another slightly older boy who was pushing on the glass trying to get outside. Together, they walked out to the minivan. The man paid for the stuff with cash and told Denise to put the change on pump six then he left as well. Denise didn't think about that encounter again until two months later when she saw a picture of Josh Powell on the news, she called west valley police in a state of shock. I Chile his last person sear. Which really do. And that's very haunting Denise told the police she had seen Josh and Susan Powell as well as their boys together in the flying j at twelve thirty AM on December seventh of two thousand and nine they did request the video surveillance and much to my surprise flying j only kept their film for ten days. And then they would record over it again. So it wasn't available for them. Denise provided a written statement. She told detectives what the people she had seen were wearing the detectives in turn asked her why she hadn't reported this citing for weeks when they asked me. Would take you some. That was gut wrenching. It just made me feel like I was discredited. So to speak when they asked me that and that was a horrible feeling here something so tragic has happened. And I'm trying to help because they were there they were there. And and how do I convince them they've got to know that they were there. And and believe that they were there. This is cold episodes, sixteen chasing leads. I'm Dave collie right back after this. Did you ever feel like it just needs some support to get really healthy? Hi, I'm Scott Mitchell. I'm Melanie Douglas. I'm on a journey to find lasting hell to my everyday life. And I'm here to help. We'll find fun doable. Ways to improve your health through small and simple changes. It's the really healthy podcast. Subscribe for free on itunes or the KSL News Radio app. I spent my college days throwing perfect passes and trash-talking BYU. And I spent my college career smashing Utah utes faces into the mud Jason Bach. And I'm Scott Mitchell after our careers in the NFL, we still talked trash mostly to each other on our podcast rivals. We talk all things football, college and NFL a little bit about life and growing up rivals downloaded each week wherever you get your podcast or on the KSL sports app. Go cougs and go us. Denise has harbored some hard feelings for west valley. Police over the last nine years a lot of anger issues frustration with them and Steph because I had such valuable information that I thought was discarded. But then, you know, ten years time in you experience other things I come to realize how difficult it is for them to put anything through the system. Here's the problem with the nieces tip. It can't be verified. Not by any other witnesses not by surveillance camera footage, not by financial records. By the time Denise reported it. A lot of information had come out in news reports. Police had to ask themselves were her memories influenced by what she had seen on TV. The more information that gets out. That's more information. Now, you have to sift through in these tips, and these leads and trying to identify ks this credible information, or is this information that they've obtained because of information we released by the start of two thousand and thirteen west valley police had received more than eight hundred tips in the Powell case, they ran the gamut from simple suggestions of where to look for Susan to detailed psychic conversations with a ghostly figure too simple, but unverified will stories like Denise 's people reported sightings of Susan in Georgia, Montana, Hawaii and Alaska. A woman named Robin claimed to obscene Josh in the boys at the comfort inn in sandy Utah, while working there on the morning of December seventh of two thousand and nine police went to the hotel and verified, there was no record of Josh having stayed there. A card dealer at the Montego Bay casino in west Wendover Nevada claimed Josh was a regular at his table on weekends. A woman named Darlene said she had flirted with Josh on an elevator at the imperial palace hotel and casino in Las Vegas because he smelled nice. Perhaps the oddest tip of all though came from the deuces wild gentlemen's club in south Salt Lake Utah. His erotic belligerent behaviors what brought attention to him. Police heard from a patron of deuces wild one week after Susan's disappearance. The man named Sherman told them on the afternoon of December seventh he'd spotted a guide the club who seemed very drunk Sherman was sitting next to the man and asked him if he was okay with digging that had a really bad day. And he had a story to tell when I asked him to tell the story says, no you don't want to hear my story. I've just had a really bad day a few days later, Sherman saw Josh Powell on the news and thought he looked a lot like the man he didn't countered at the club. Shouting strippers and the bartender. He tried to take another patrons drink, the bar's owner says the man was acting radically talking to himself. Speaking out loud, wasn't really making any sense. A couple of officers went to his wild other patrons recounted a story about a man who had caused a ruckus on December. Seventh the bartender told detectives this belligerent customer was not a regular. And it seemed like he had been on something. He did look like Josh Powell. But she couldn't say for sure that it was him. Police say they aren't able to confirm. It was in fact, Josh pallet deuces wild the day, his wife, Susan was reported missing trying to discredit the individuals involved. Sometimes you know, I wouldn't can't can can be mistaken. So you can't rely wholly on that you try and verify that at this point. We're not able to verify through independent means that was just bad day guy had arrived about two PM and left the bar about four thirty PM. Josh's phone records showed he was near his home in west valley at three PM and down south at point of the mountain a half an hour later, Josh could not possibly have been at deuces wild. There was another big problem with the story. Josh didn't drink his journals included several references to his not liking alcohol or even being around other people when they were drinking. It was starting to wear me down to to have to be around alcohol in the house, and and cutting Steve Powell also wrote about the deuces wild story. Once it made the news, even Josh's detractors came out and said, they did not believe the story Josh's never been to a strip club. Even though he does not feel. There's anything wrong with such an activity. Josh's attorney Scott Williams responded to a news story about the deuces wild tip by saying he had no idea why anybody would make that kind of claim about Josh. Called nine one one shortly before midnight on December eleventh of two thousand nine just five days into the search for Susan and told the dispatcher she'd been having an affair with Josh Powell. She said her name was Christine through slurred words. She described having met Josh at a comedy club. She said he'd claimed his wife had died of cancer. She only realized that wasn't true when she saw Susan's face on the news, the call disconnected Christine called nine one one. Again, a few times, actually. Dispatch handed the information off to west valley city police an officer got Christine on the phone again, just before one AM and thought she sounded drunk Christine said she lived in Oregon, even though she was calling from Utah on a phone with Utah area code the officer asked Christine for Josh's phone number to test her honesty, she became upset and hung up the phone. Police traced the number Christine had called from to an address about ten blocks to the east of where Josh and Susan lived a patrol officer went to the house and knocked on the door at about three A M. No one answered. Christine's tip went cold. Then in July of two thousand and ten detective Ellis Maxwell double-checked Christine's number against Josh's phone records. It did turn up but only once just after midnight on December twelve th of two thousand and nine the same night. She had called nine one one. The phone records showed no one picked up at the Powell house. Christine had never talked to Josh at least not on any phone west valley. Police knew about Ellis kept digging. He learned the phone number Christine had called from actually belonged to a woman named Courtney. She called in relatively early after dismayed, the news, and she left a bogus name and filed these allegations as you know, she was having an affair with this guy. And you know that took a little bit of time to track her down. Police made contact with Courtney again in August. She was hesitant to talk. And it's like. You know, obviously, we can't force people. But can it doesn't work like that? Right. They convinced Courtney to come into the station for chat. She sat down with the detectives and told her story Courtney said she'd met Josh through the phone chat service live links and that they'd dated for about six to eight months. Also, Josh hadn't used his real name he'd gone by an alias, John. Staley. Courtney claimed Josh had paid her about eight hundred dollars for sex over the course of their relationship. He'd meet her at the hunter library, then they would drive up one of the nearby canyons to make out or have sex. Courtney even took a drive with the detectives to visit those spots in mill creek and Butterfield canyons on the outskirts of this outlay valley did a little Phil trip. And. Yeah. Nothing vault from the whole thing smelled fishy. Ellis asked Courtney to take a lie detector test, and she did not want to do that. Was Courtney telling the truth about John Staley Ellis didn't think so should never called him and never had communication stuff. Like that. So, you know, booze put a bed the cold team reached out to Courtney to ask for her side of the story, but she never responded casting further doubt on her story. But what Courtney claimed at the time did lend credence to an even wilder tale from a man named Andrew Anderson. My background. Right. That was the first question. Andrew asked me when we sat down to talk about the Powell case what he meant was. He had done time. Letting you know that that's the case Andrew Andersons troubles with the law started in two thousand and seven when he was twenty one with an arrest for forgery in west Jordan, Utah court records show, the busts cascaded from there by two thousand and nine he'd racked up more arrests for forgery and financial fraud. They resulted in the filing of felony charges in at least fifteen separate cases. The other misdemeanors scattered in between just garnish like parsley on a plate Anderson resolved, most of those cases with plea deals. He spent some time in jail but bounced out on probation before long. He just kept getting into trouble. So in February of two thousand and ten a judge ordered Anderson to prison for up to five years when I went to prison, I went to prison for like checks credit cards, all that the Utah department of corrections operates to prisons one at point of the mountain midway between the main population centers of Salt Lake City and Provo Utah. The other in the rural central Utah town of gunnison, but many state inmates end up serving their sentences in county jails because the two prisons are overcrowded. Interesting told me he spent a lot of time in different jails over the course of his sentence. Washington county sucks. Davis county sucks. It's all right, but sucks, we were county cash county. They all suck Sali county sucks. Andrew was in the box elder county jail. When in the summer of two thousand and ten he reached out to US marshal, Daryl Spencer and west valley. Police detective Gavin cook. He described meeting Josh Powell in July of two thousand and nine at a place called fat cats in the city of south Salt Lake. He was hanging out there with a few people when woman named summer walked in with a guy. He didn't recognize summer was a stripper shoes is using 'cause is paying just give money money money money money summer seemed close physically with the guy they were kissing in hanging onto one another. Andrew told the investigators summer had met this guy through a phone chat service, possibly live links or quest chat. Come to think of it. Maybe it was on Craigslist. He wasn't sure he's possessive very possessive. Like, if she would talk to me or say, she went to get a beer or something. He'd be all. Weird about it. Does that make sense like? Late you talking to that dude. You did not end at fatcats. That's where I I met him. And then I've been wind over with him and couple of other places. So this guy did not go by the name. Josh he had a different name. But Andrew couldn't remember it summer probably had a different name to for all Andrew new. I don't know if that's your stripper name or real name or anything, but you know on the street in the game. All because she, you know, she likes smoke meth and party do all that stuff and shoes stripper. Not that makes her any different anybody else. It was job. Andrew had I met through a mutual acquaintance who'd been on the same ankle monitor jail released program with him. He was hanging out with the four or where like. Gutter? I guess you wanna say out committing crimes doing all? That stuff injury said he was locked up in December of two thousand and nine when he first saw Josh Powell on the news. He was sure Josh was the possessive guy he had met that summer day fatcats. He started hearing through the grapevine the Josh in summer had had an argument some are threatened to tell Josh's wife about their affair. Josh said he had already killed his wife for some reason, he spill beans doer. So the story as Andrew had heard it went that Joshua dumped Susan's body in a mine or buried her at a campground out in the desert for Ellis, this sounded just plausible enough. There could be there could have been still something there. But it wouldn't have wouldn't have been information that would have found Susan. This would have been information that you could. Would discredit Joshua's credibility. The idea of Josh having lead a secret double life spending his money on strippers and gambling trips. Caught the imagination of detectives, there's a small portion of it that I kind of believed I still kind of believe maybe Josh was involved in, you know, maybe some prostitution, and you know, as possible, and you know, we definitely looked at it. But Andrews information did not exactly come from a position of pure altruism. Civil I can't do a dang thing sitting in here. How can I go? Find summer you give me on the street with furlough or something give me out of prison. Then I could do it. Andrew told the investigators summer with slender white blonde and probably in her late twenties early thirties. She might have worked at deuces wild the same strip club where patrons had reported seeing a guy who looked like Josh on the day Susan disappeared that coincidence. Was not lost on the police here. We've got deuces wild coordinate. We're gonna Andrew this story. And it's like this is kinda weird. And you know, the very well could be something there. Detectives went to work. They made a list of possible summers to compare against a spreadsheet of licensed. Exotic dancers. Police records also say Andrew suggested they talked to another woman who'd been at fat cats that day her name was Emily. And she was attending a family reunion in Michigan. Police hopped a plane and went to see Emily. It looks bad on me. Even though I didn't give Emily's name they something. I don't know, you know, her our name brought up and I said I was hanging out with her at the time. She very well. Could know her got somewhere to start Emily met, the investigators at Fayette historic state park on Michigan's upper peninsula, they asked if she had ever been to fat cats. She said, no, they asked if she knew Andrew again, she said, no Emily admitted she'd been involved in fraud and forgery her memory was bad because she had spent much of late teeth thousand nine strung out on methamphetamine. In fact, she'd been locked up for the first half of two thousand and ten her trip to Michigan. Probably against the rules of her release. The police put the screws to Emily and her memories started to come back. Yes, she did know Andrew but only by his alias. His is monitoring him was cowboy. Yes. Emily new summer. They had printed checks, and I d cards together. Yes. She had been fat cats and remembered seeing a guy acting weird aloof and possessive of summer. He had drank beer spent time on a PDA and drove off at the end of the night in a dark colored SUV. That didn't sound like the Josh Powell Ellis Maxwell new still it was a lead. Yeah. Knowing Josh you're sinking. He's he's not the type of person that would get involved in prostitution, but being impluse for for twenty years. Nothing really surprises me anymore. Detectives identified more possible summer candidates one lived in MOAB desert resort town in the southeastern part of Utah. They checked her out even visiting her apartment in person. She was not the right one another possible summer met with police in mid August of two thousand and ten she agreed to take a lie detector test, which she passed Andrew said she wasn't the right summer when he later saw her picture they were going to Saint George. They were going to moa they were Daryl and Maxwell, we're all over the place man that same month. Andrew Sant US marshal Daryl Spencer a letter asking for. Help getting moved to a better jail or into a residential drug treatment program. He said it would free him up to spend all his time searching for summer. I didn't like where I was at. So Darryl was helping me get moved around to where I wanted to be at where the prison had space at better gills for helping them. And finally just got me back to prison where I wanted to be. There was a problem, though, Andrews story kept shifting. He added new bits like that summer was a feather would or female member of a white supremacist gain in spite of not being able to positively identify summer. Andrew did provide information on other cases that seemed to check out. Toward the end of September. Police learned Emily had returned from Michigan word was getting around that. She too was on the hunt for summer. Been amongst these people. Obtained information of need on the summer girl said you could get at the end of September Emily showed up at west valley. Police headquarters for an interview. Here like. Honestly, when they started that job, you never mentioned different places types people as kind of like. Well, that could be an even line she agreed to undergo a lie detector test. Do you know summer? Is this month of September? Yes. Have you ever talked to summer about the murdered wife? Yeah. So police decided to put Andrew and Emily together in the same room. I was in Davis county jail in all of a sudden Emily showed up there one day. They left Andrew and Emily alone for a little bit. Then split the two of them up and asked each what they had talked about Andrew and Emily gave two different accounts of their conversation. What's more Emily admitted to having used meth that very morning in her purse? The police reported finding another person's checkbook credit cards and ide-. The police arrested her and handed her over to a probation officer who had just obtained an arrest warrant a week later. The police also gave Andrew a lie detector test. They asked if he actually believed it was Josh Powell had seen fatcats back in July of two thousand and nine Andrew said, yes. The test did not reveal any signs of deception. They gave me lie detector tests after lie detector tests, pass them. All Andrew kept writing letters on April twenty fifth of two thousand and eleven he sent a letter to detectives Gavin cook and LS Maxwell, he said he'd been in touch with people who knew where summer was hiding. She had agreed to talk in exchange for full, immunity and half a million dollars in cash. Andrew story continued to evolve he claimed Susan had got wind of Josh spending time on chat lines and going out in public with prostitutes in raged, she had planned to leave with the boys. Josh had used his supposed connections in the criminal underworld to keep that from happening. Andrew felt frustrated he'd given police information, but seemed to get nothing in return in all honesty. I was I wanted to help them out bears. Also trying to help myself out because I was given an eighteen months sentence. That's my max is supposed to be. I did, you know five five plus years on in July of two thousand eleven Andrew told police he found out who had put out a hit on. Josh he dangled that carrot in an effort to keep from being moved to the prison in gunnison at the start of August, Andrew provided a list of possible summer associates people who might know where to find her. He also told detectives Susan's body could be some mountains south of interstate eighty in Utah's west desert, but the specific directions he gave didn't make any sense by December as Josh was fighting for custody of his boys in Washington state, Andrew landed just where he didn't want to be in gunnison. He didn't give up trying to work a deal on the two year anniversary of Susan's disappearance. He begged for help getting out in a letter. He claimed to have given police information about Steve Powell possessing child pornography before the August two thousand eleven search warrant rate at Steve's house. I gave him all that information and Steven pow got put away for child pornography all that stuff and Josh pal. I said go look on Josh POWs, computer right now, and you have plenty to arrest him. That's a claim that is not backed up by the facts. I asked Andrew to explain that he stood by his claim. That his tip prompted the raid. I like match well a lot. But as soon as Maxwell got that information about St. pal they were up there arresting. So I asked Ellis if Andrew's tip in any way, contributed there wasn't anything that dandruff shared with us that then if it of the investigation nothing still a detective drove out to meet with Andrew in January of two thousand and twelve Andrew story changed again. He no longer said Susan's remains worrying Utah shouldn't POWs in Idaho, dude between Idaho in Washington. That's where she's a Andrew offered yet. More names of people who might find summer some of the people he suggested were incarcerated others were living on the streets. Tracking them down was not easy. But police did none of them shared any useful information one complained that Andrew was nuts as as a really good example of. Depleting your resources and burning up valuable time. Around the start of February of two thousand and twelve right around the time. Josh killed the boys police in the city of south Salt Lake served, a search warranted house frequented by one of the people Andrew had named west valley. Detectives caught wind of it. The compared notes with their colleagues in south Salt Lake at last they were able to come up with a likely identity for summer. They took her picture to the prison in gunnison and showed it to Andrew. He said she was not the right summer. Enough was enough Ellis confronted Andrew I believe I specifically asked what what he wanted out of this. What was looking for because if formation he was sharing with us wasn't taking us anywhere. We weren't gaining any ground. We weren't getting any evidence we weren't getting any formation Ellis wanted to know why Andrew had not come forward with all of the information at the beginning. He asked Andrew why he of all people would be the source. Andrew did not have good answers. Andrew anderson. Yeah. He burned up a lot of our time. And we had some very Frank conversations with him through that timeframe. In. Eventually we shut the door. The most Ellis could say was that someone who looked like Josh might have been at fat cats in July of two thousand and nine with a blonde woman who went by the name summer, or maybe it was all bogus. You know? It's kind of ironic you end up with three leads that are, you know, out of the Salt Lake valley here that evolve Josh and sexual activity, and I think that you've got to put a little bit more weight into that into those leads because it's not your traditional lead of like. Well, for example, the flying j allegations there, you know, there was there was that knows it as for Andrew his trouble with the law continued prison records show he was released on parole at the end of two thousand and thirteen. Finally, he could hunt down summer and. Get her to talk last time. I heard from her was two thousand twelve to thirteen. She's she dried me letters and stuff like that. Yeah. Then all of a sudden, they stop so. In two thousand fourteen Andrew was accused of passing forged checks it resulted in his parole being revoked for half a year. He got out again at the end of two thousand and fifteen word on the street when I got out, and I tried to relate to Darryl was that she overdosed on heroin. Whether that's true or not, I don't know. But I have not seen her around. Then in two thousand seventeen Andrew was accused of stealing his own brother's identity in order to rent an apartment, he cut a plea deal and got off with time served. When I talked to Andrew in June of two thousand eighteen he told me he was done looking for summer. The only way to do is start going to strip clubs into hanging out with squirts strippers again, I don't like that. So that's Barbie on that Andrew expressed a lot of anger over how everything played out he called west valley. Police idiots just frustrating, man. It really is I know west valley fills or should at least have guilt about and know that they screwed up pretty being bad. But how much time and effort did the investigators spend on a lead that went nowhere? There was spun off from information received from the media. And that's why it's important for us to have those records sealed. I can only imagine if we didn't keep those records sealed and all the formations affidavits was released. We would probably ended up with thousands of more tips. And leads that we would have had of wasted resources on for nothing. L A said they couldn't ignore Andrews tip. Just because it came from an inmate. It was likely it was something that we definitely had to explore. And you know, what a food if we would have found some evidence there to support any of those or all three of them. Okay. Now, we've got you know, know that we've got a motive right? I mean outside of that our motive is. What does want wanna go to church, we probably spend a little bit more time on that than we should have. But at the end of the day, you know, it's not gonna hurt our investigation. So you do what you gotta do. Back after this. I love good puzzle. And I'm betting you do too. There's nothing quite a satisfying. As figuring out the answers, just in the Nick of time. 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We're not just reserved for Josh west valley. Police also had to determine if Susan might have been on faithful three days before Susan disappeared. She typed in Email to a male co worker at Wells Fargo investments dreamed about at least five co workers since I've come here. Some dreams are g some are PG thirteen and one rated X. It was hard to look at that person for about a month afterwards. Co workers were not the only ones who crept into Susan's dreams. Mel Gibson made frequent. Appearances. Most of the dreams were innocuous, but she tended to share with people who showed up in them. Anyway, I really didn't feel like she realized how much she was turning somebody on that what she was saying was not maybe because she was just an open book. And it didn't matter if you were guy or girl, and so when you're TMI in the guy is going to have a different effect than have your team I in its girl. That's Linda Bagley one obsessions closest work friends. Linda, clearly, Susan had admirers. The attention caused problems. I even had a co worker Pat my rear while here. I retired those jeans from work that very day. Susan wrote that Email in September of two thousand nine she was always very clear about her commitment to her marriage. Some of her admirers chose not to hear that they got the wrong idea both here. And when I was at fidelity, I'm learning guys don't differentiate married or not. So you don't do things like going out to lunch. Or her harder emotions on her shoulders. She would if she genuinely cared about you or felt comfortable with you or trusted you whether if you're a co worker or member ward or just the neighbors. She would she would talk openly with people, you know, other people as I won't see clout males. But they may pick up that vibe is being something different. Right. Lahser. Delivering a message that. Interested right Ellis and the west valley major crimes team obtained a years worth of Susan's working mills in March of two thousand and ten. There were thousands of messages they had to create a spreadsheet just to keep track of all the people in those conversations several men stood out from the crowd. We weren't just focusing on. Josh we were looking at every yet and everybody else knew he had to talk to these co workers, and you know, that's part of investigative work as well is recognizing that and seeing cash do I really think this person's evolve. No, doesn't look like it. Could there be probable chance? Maybe you've gotta prove disprove the big scandal of two thousand and nine at Susan's office was the divorce of a woman she worked with and that women's subsequent marriage to a co worker the office romance prompt at all kinds of gossip for Susan it led to some self reflection about her own thoughts of divorcing Josh. If I was separated from Josh I wouldn't. Wouldn't be dating. I'd be hanging out with the girls dealing with lawyers trying to get and keep custody of my kids. The guy who she send that Email to had joked Susan and Josh could deal with their marital troubles by buying a copy of the comic sutra. Susan's friend and co worker amber Hartman told me there was zero chance of Susan having an affair. She's like the guys you're flirting. But she said she would never act on in. I believe her. She spent most of her lunch breaks and breaks with me. We'd hang out in walk around the building go exercise in the exercise room. So I mean, I know she wasn't spending extra time at work with these people Susan's Email exchanges. With mayo coworkers always seemed to return to the topic of her marriage. She would make it very clear that choose only interested in Josh, though, she would share your thoughts or stories and everything else, you know, it would be followed with you know, how much she cared about Josh and the relationship and yet one guy in particular caused police concern his name was Ryan. Might just making sure we didn't miss anything Ryan. And Susan were former co workers when they'd worked together he sometimes gave her rides home west valley. Detectives interviewed Ryan more than once. She referred to me as for sugar. Daddy, always bring chocolate. Our she's really cool Susan in Ryan's office. Friendship had progressed to a point where she privately called him. Her back burner husband. We got along great at work. She's a sweetheart. She's she was just. Great. I don't know. One thing that always start married. Boundary. She would tell me things that my wife. Ryan like Susan was married privately. Susan figured if they ever both ended up, divorced. He was an option Email and she's like. Yes. I think you do more than you know. Ryan God along with Josh as well as anyone could. But he didn't respect him much. He knew Josh was a realtor calls it off. Off and ask real estate advise. And then I do these doll. And I told my house Susan and Ryan fell out of touch for while after she gave birth to Brayden then in October of two thousand eight he sent her an Email out of the blue. It said, I miss you. I should mention here that I contacted Ryan and asked him to do an interview he declined I'm not using his last name out of consideration for his privacy. Susan responded to Ryan's two thousand and eighty male with a long message all about her troubles with. Josh. She also mentioned her dreams still having my dreams. But lately only the old jerk ex-boyfriend from junior high and high school appears, although there has been the intermittent male co worker over here appearing just think that could be you Ryan told Susan he'd had several dreams about her as well one. He said would have made her blush, he explained he had a cellphone his wife couldn't access and said, she could call him anytime for any reason. Susan gave Ryan her cell phone number as well. In another Email Ryan called Susan mightier in a follow up message. He said she had the right to be happy. So are you going to make me happy problem is I still love the guy. I married. I just don't know if I'll ever get that back Ryan replied that he did not want to interfere with what Susan had going. But said, quote, I have always thought you were beautiful Susan continued to vent about Joshua's laziness in April of two thousand and nine she teas Ryan about possibly taking over. So you are saying I'd have to marry you in order to get some work done around the house too bad, the plural. Marriage thing is frowned upon. Now, maybe services in exchange for the handiwork. I can't get to do to. I have a conscience and morals and stuff. Dang that told me Josh never wants. I told her generally because he's looking foreigners team. What was her response? Oh, no, no. I don't I don't think that that. I generally when I doesn't want it. It's one of those factors is only I had my chocolate. Daddy, dick, goof off with an influence, my knotty dreams, by the way. I did have another one. But sorry, you weren't in the milk. Oh or grad dreamed about. So now you have competition. There was more Josh stayed out late Thursday night for a computer geek thing, and I asked him how long he thought it'd be like six nine or midnight. And he said have your boyfriend gone by nine and so high said to obviously nobody in the room. Oh, did you hear that? Ryan. He says we have until nine you can just imagine what? Detectives thought when they first read all of those emails deaf Lewis at coworker. You know, he needed to be talked with and ran through CVS say Ryan agreed to come in and take the lie detector test. At the end of June of two thousand and ten I don't think she would be capable of cheating on Josh. Because. Ryan spoke candidly, he denied knowing what had happened to Susan. Shooting kids. For life. She would have seen the test showed Ryan was telling the truth. notice Gushin of leads in the Susan Powell investigation is complete without addressing Steve Powell's theory about Susan running off with Stephen coacher as hilarious is comical, and how that evolved and developed. I don't know if it was a combination of Josh and Steve collaborating and going look, Josh I mentioned this back in nine when describing Steve's February two thousand and ten interview with the FBI he suggested to a pair of special agents that Susan had slipped away to Brazil reasons, I wanted to send the stuff on the FBI because he FBI has access to pass for records assume you I don't give you guys are easier time to the rest of us trying to get a commission. But Josh says she didn't have a pass for tonight say she did Stephen coacher was thirty years old when he van. Finished from the area of Henderson Nevada on December thirteenth of two thousand. That's about a week after Susan was last seen at her home in west valley City, Utah more than four hundred miles from Henderson. A home surveillance camera captured video of coacher walking away from his car at a cul de sac in the Sun City anthem retirement community, like Susan coacher was a practicing member of the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints. He had served a two year mission for the church in northeastern. Brazil speaking Portuguese after his mission. He had bounced around several jobs in the Salt Lake City area. George. He didn't move there. Too late April of last year, and before that he worked in Salt Lake City and one place he was to watch from where she worked, you know, you're to the salt Tribune she worked at delanie investments. It's not clear what drew coacher to the outskirts of Las Vegas on the day, he disappeared. But some have speculated it might have been a job opportunity. Steve Powell had a different take goes down this area arranges for a boat. You know, probably in boulder city on the thirteenth. He comes down your abandoned his car. He enter said don't ask me. Why Henderson don't ask me? Why vanden his car? Why didn't he just go? Stupid. I mean, obviously is trying to make look like disappearance in a light. The Susan Powell this appearance Ellis said the coincidence of two people disappearing around the same time deserved attention, the kosher thing. Yeah. Stepping outside of the box looking in. You know, something like this is this is weird. You know, there's there. I mean is this this is just odd that these two people go missing. And there's a period of time there that it was, you know, could be very likely Steve's theory was based on a perception of coacher that was detached from reality. He wrote this in one of many journal entries about the theory. Susan has always been attracted to bad, boys. I sort of visualize Stephen coacher as narrative well who carries around guitar and escape board, and who has a college degree by virtue of his parents affluence Steve suggested co. Mr. might have disguised himself by growing a beard and mustache and putting on a hat. Susan. He said had probably adopted a black haired Latin look in told the special agents to seek evidence cosmetology supply stores in Brazil. Was found like somehow, I think so I really do. That's why survive did you in the salt by Josh this theory? Yeah. Again, Josh attitude is. So pretty plausible, AVI. Josh was only humoring his father. He didn't buy the coach theory at all Steve conceded as much in his journal. Josh had a hard time thinking she would run off with another man Michel kept reminding me that I'd feel pretty bad. If I doubted such theory and later found out she had been raped and tortured for weeks or months, Michael. And Josh don't talk about Steven coach in August of two thousand and ten Steve road, one of his nephews had drawn his attention to the website read it where he saw several interesting AMA or ask me anything threads. One came from a red eter using the handle missing inaction who on August nineteenth of two thousand and ten posted in AMA thread with the title, I faked my own suicide and left the country missing inaction claimed to be a man in his late twenties who suffered from depression and fled his life in the US ending up in Peru. Steve supposed missing in action might actually be Susan. He dismissed the obvious problem that missing inaction was a man I spent so much time last weekend and yesterday reading everything MIA said most of it in context with the questions posed to her I've begun to hope I am hearing from Susan finally Steve took interest in another AMA session as well. Where redder described life infertility Brazil. That's exactly where Steve believed coacher had gone with Susan the person writing who calls himself slavish Muffin all. Refer to him as SM coincidentally Susan's initials are SMP or S M K if she's married coacher, which I also think is a strong possibility for Susan Murray. So it wouldn't be too unusual for coach her to come up with a handle that uses her initials Steve was really stretching here. The theory continued to grow more elaborate and nonsensical in an August. Second two thousand eleven journal entry Steve wrote Josh found out today that a fight plan is not required for small planes. Susan would have known that tidbit since her father Chuck Cox works for the FAA. I suggested months ago that investigators check flights out of lake havasu. And since Stephen coacher was in that area the day before he disappeared. And of course, I believe Susan is with him. It also occurred to me today that maybe Chuck Cox himself picked Susan and coach up at one of those airports Ellis contacted police. In Saint George Wendover and Henderson all cities tied to the coach case the detectives compared notes they created a time line that showed coacher was in Saint George three hundred miles away from west valley on the day of Susan's disappearance. So. Yeah, kudos Steve bringing that up. Great. Thank you. You know, I ran that lead down with some of my peers and again was expecting to find anything. But hopeful, you know, maybe maybe there is a chance that mister kosher and her eloped, but no nothing came of it just to be sure they compared phone records and found no contacts between coaches, number and Susan's. But it was it was it was definitely helpful because that could have been another red herring. And now it's been put to bed can focus on Josh. On the next episode of cold. We are nounce in the end the active phase of the search for Susan if you haven't already please subscribe to cold tosses rating or a review you can find cold on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter at the cold podcast for video clips pictures from the case in more hit up the cold podcast dot com. Also, if Susan story sounds familiar in your own life. In other words, if you or someone you know is experiencing domestic abuse in any form, please get immediate help in the US. Support is a phone call away at the national domestic violence hotline at one eight hundred seven nine nine seven two three three or online at WWW dot the hotline dot org. A quick thank you to the team. Kristen sorenson. Eric openshaw, Ken fall, Danielle Prager, cure, Fairmont. Becky, Bruce, Josh Tilton at a Mason, Jillian Friedman, and especially Sheryl music for cold was composed by Michael bond Miller except for the guitar stuff. That was me cold is a KSL podcast. Thank you for listening.
Powell, Yellen to testify in Congress - Morning Briefing - Marketplace Minute - March 23, 2021
"The fed chair and treasury secretary testify in congress. I'm not safa with the marketplace minute. Both jerome powell and janet yellen are poised to deliver a fairly optimistic economic outlook when they testify congressional oversight hearings today and tomorrow in written testimony. The treasury secretary says there could be a full employment rebound by next year. Meanwhile fed chair. Powell says the recovery has been quicker than earlier forecasts predicted and stimulus has helped the travel industry is urging the white house to open up international travel by this summer in a joint letter industry. Groups say they want among other things people from foreign countries who are vaccinated to be allowed into the us without testing requirements and on thursday the treasury department auctions off one hundred eighty three billion dollars in notes debt. Issuance is expected to total four trillion dollars this year. All of that supply is pushing up the interest rate on government debt. I'm nova safa with the marketplace minute.