39 Burst results for "Police Union"
Houston police discourage 'Karens' from calling 911 on neighbors who violate mask order
"To to enforce enforce the the state's state's mask mask mandate. mandate. But But Ray Ray Hunt Hunt with with the the police police union union says says they they won't won't go go out out looking looking for for violators. violators. He He also also encourages encourages so so called called Karen's Karen's not to call 911 on their neighbours to somebody called 911 Our dispatchers are not gonna be dispatched the police off We don't have the manpower for that were limited as it is, But if we are on a call, and we see someone who is in clear violation of the executive order, we're going encourage that. Please go get a mask or to leave the location. Hunt says officers will respond to businesses where a customer refuses to wear a mask and refuses to leave the property. Governor Greg Abbott
Fresh update on "police union" discussed on Boston Public Radio Podcast
"Well, you know I think. I. Think. It's a really outside of the box. Thinking Way to think about it and I think something definitely worth considering especially as we return when the legislature comes back in in the next January, but I think in the meantime, what's important to realize is that cities and towns already done by their police officers, they already get insurance or the police officers you know of all those cases that you've mentioned before that have been paid out zero have been paid by into. Change their houses but. I think that would change that and I, think the Police Union would. Really you know we'd have to think about how they are going to respond to that because right now they're out having. You know telling me very sad stories that they're gonNA. Lose their houses and things, and that is the kind of story that we're up against politically shelving shouldn't have lost his I mean, do you know police officer who if you had a conversation with I? Guess we do a police officer with whom you'd have a conversation. Who you said should Derek Show van had been on the Minneapolis Police Force, the day killed George. Floyd, would any of them have said? Yes. I look anymore I mean. So I think it's a really creative and innovative and interesting idea, but it's not currently in front of the legislation, but we at least get the cities and towns to be on the hook I maybe then we could talk about sharing that burden between the cities and towns and the police officer. But right now it's one hundred percent on the victim, rather Sarah to shoulder the burden and the cost of week misconduct. Let's cow rose head of the city of civil rights, civil liberties of masters. I'm sorry. That's Okay Jim. So Karros. We have been seeing for days. Now, the scenes out of Portland with the protesters out protesting the black lives matter protesters. unmarked were or? Secret police people. But I guess there from the border patrol is something running around arresting people in teargassing people. Etc. What what is going on out there now in Portland and what's the ACLU's involvement? Great. Thanks. So I I'm I'm so glad you after just got a note this morning from my counterpart at the Aclu Oregon giving us an update. So just to say by way of background. there have been police, the local police have been You know using tear gas and rubber bullets and things. Against Protestors since May, the George Ward Murderer and people on the streets demanding change, it's very limited to a six block area. So it's not sort of widespread across the city, these are, and it's actually a lot of what's happening is in front of the federal building, but also across the street in what's called the free speech, Park. and so that was already happened. So then suddenly. The Fence Newton and the trump administration moved in from Department of Homeland. Security and the US marshals service were deployed deportment not at the request state and local police at all..
A Look at Police Body Cam Technologies, and Where They Fall Short
"The nationwide protests over the killing of George, Floyd brought many things alight from racial inequality to police brutality. One issue that's come back to the forefront is whether or not police body cams are effective tools to hold officers accountable. I'm Roger Jiang. This is your daily charge with me senior video producer Butch Kerry who was a video out today discussing this various you welcome bridget. Thanks for having me. So body cameras really spiked popularity with the police back between fourteen talk about what really sparked this move answer where we are today yeah. It really began with Michael Brown because when he was shot by a white police officer in two thousand fourteen, there was no video footage to show it happened in the officer didn't face charges. So the family came out and Please request thought you know there's a movement that police can wear body cameras that was pushed even further by President Obama also saying that this should be the change for the future. Then there were federal grant setup to help departments pay for them. So you did have this big increase in police departments trying to help their relationship with the community and saying, Hey, we're going to have body cameras now but I mean that was present fourteen and I feel like we're still at the same place which. Is why I wanted to do this report and look into how do they work and why are we still at the same place and it really comes down to how different departments are using the cameras zero zillion talk a little bit about that and just to give our listeners a sense of how broadly there used. I, know you mentioned those grants to the Justice Department awarded place apartments in thirty states more than twenty three, million dollars for body Cam. So how many police officers actually use them? That the data right now, when you look at the statistics, it's looking like about half of our nation right now has officer some way or another obviously is hard to be exactly of small apartments, large departments but right now the idea looks like about half the country has law enforcement wearing some kind of camera or has tested out cameras some. In some way I, mean issues basic the you have officers wear cameras people will change their behavior when they know they're being recorded right there's more trust now when they're when there's a cameras more accountability these really lofty goals for one piece attack at there have been a few snags along the way. Of them being cost of storage because you have all these officers recording when they come into a situation every day. So figure, every officer has maybe three or four hours of recording everyday they have to store in the cloud. Well, how long are they storing that and how much is needing to be saved It's all different depending on every single up police department. So sometimes, it's months sometimes years and you're looking at costs in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. One department only had five police officers in the little town of Nebraska, and they were looking at something around fifteen grand. A year and this is like not folk is not feasible for every department to pay this because those those grants we talked about they don't cover ongoing storage costs. So some departments have been pulled out of using them because they don't see it's it's useful for them to be paying for it because the storage storage is definitely issued cost is an issue. These unforeseen costs are a real. Red Flag but bring it back to you know the ultimate idea that these cameras were supposed to bring accountability and to prove relations with the community was twenty and we're still protesting about police brutality Take things are worse than they ever are they have been. So what happened how did they fail to accomplish that goal? I wouldn't call them an outright failure, but it certainly is a failure in A. Couple of aspects one It goes back to how these tools are being used for one A officers have the ability for the most part right now to start and stop the recording on their own because they they really feel like you should have that kind of freedom. Do you really want a camera to be always turned on in every instance? No not when you're visiting someone at the hospital Having a private conversation or just you know having your lunch that said, what are the punishments if you don't hit that record button when you were supposed to or finding that there isn't a lot of incentive to do the right thing or I should say you know punishment if you miss a recording when you're supposed to at least that's what a lot of the researchers I talked to were saying that. If if you don't activate your camera, you know what's the consequence for that That's that's one area that's missing. Other area that that's missing is how can the public get access to this footage to be accountable? You countless studies have been done, and most recently they looked at all the studies and said, all right. What's the data we're seeing that there are fewer complaints against police officers. That's a good thing. We're seeing that police officers have footage to say, Hey, look I was justified that this was a false complaint against me. Great cameras are showing the truth in different aspects but a cameras show every angle of the story that happened and the cameras only as good as being able to release the footage. So some researchers I talked to said. We WanNA. See more data on can the public access when they want to receive some change now in New York City the mayor said that anytime now there is an incident where someone killed or seriously injured they will release footage but for a while there was this law that said, they don't have to release anything. We'll as a camera that you know. So so that's really the problem. I it comes down to not having a uniformed a set of rules or standards on win. This footage can be released in how it can be used. To the point of consistency, you mentioned New York City Mayor de Blasio a changes law he's fairly alone. He's he's sort of serve an isolated case right? Because the the rules are very greatly I don't think there's any kind of national mandate to be more transparent about when they released this footage ride, we're starting to see changes win the public points, their camera at a situation and out that officers didn't have their cameras turned on over in. Louisville when there was a shooting at the restaurant owner those officers who did not activate. Their cameras were put on leave a might my questions are okay they're put on leave but they're suspended. Where are you know the the more serious deterrence there? You know what's happening people are losing their jobs over it out win when government realized that the spotlight's on them you know but we have to look at what's going on in terms of using them. There is some technology though that is kind of starting to change that part of it like having a camera automatically turn on when it senses something's happening it could be win a Taser guns pulled out of a holster. It could be also not so serious like when it detects a police vehicle going at a certain speed or detects other kind of check marks author software so that Way If an officer is in the heat of the moment and can't remember to turn on their camera. It does it for them There's also talk about live streaming. So some of the cameras are able to have a superior back at home base tap into what that officer is seen in real time. That is a great advantage. When something serious is going down, they get a real time feedback. But. It's something that they're also can be push back with with police unions going wait a second I don't want someone seeing what I'm doing all times I don't live streaming only a few departments really have started to use livestream I. Think Cincinnati was one of the first that used the teaser brand of version of livestream on their cameras, and that was just February so very early for that technology but there's a lot of talk about that.
Fresh update on "police union" discussed on Sean Hannity
"The state of Texas has the option to choose what is the best date for them to begin their school year. So some school districts are choosing to begin their school year this month and the month of August. Others are choosing to begin their school year in the month of September. The governor says No. One date should be decided by the state. Abbott says some of the PP is being paid for by the Federal Cares Act and the state of Texas. Wyatt Goolsbee is Radio 7 40 Despite Mayor Sylvester Turner's threat of a $250 fine for ignoring the state's mask mandate. Ray Hunt with the Houston Police Union says officers will not be actively looking for violators. Promise Shi'ar police officers are not going to be coming into your backyard and looking for people who aren't wearing masks. We're not gonna be that kind of police department We never have been and never will be. If we're called to a scene, obviously, and there's someone there who's violating the governor's order. Then we're going to encourage them to please go get a mask and Mascone Han says HPD is 9 11 center will ignore calls from any so called Karen's looking to report their neighbors, but they will respond at businesses of a mask violator refuses to wear a mask and leave the property. White House press secretary Kayleigh Mcenany dismisses the idea of a widespread shutdown to prevent further spread of the virus. The president is not considering a national locked on what he is encouraging is mitigation efforts like wearing a mask, which is patriotic, like social, distancing and engaging in these really common sense, safe measures to safely reopen and avoid the health consequences of a lock down. The Minneapolis Federal Reserve Bank president said the U. S economy could benefit if the nation weirdo locked down really hard for 4 to 6 weeks. Head of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons is throwing her support behind Hydroxy clerk one to treat Cove it 19. San Antonio, Dr Christian held says it's no big deal to use the drug for something other from other than for what it was meant. We'd drugs off label 20 to 30% of the time and, in fact in some situations were forced to use drugs off label because.
Defunding Seattle police debate continues ahead of budget
"That's how many people have said no to DE funding Seattle police in the last two days comes, Michelle Esteban says it's part of of a a petition petition by by the the police police union union that that says, says, cutting cutting the the police police budget budget by by 50%. 50%. Will Will decimate decimate public public safety. safety. Here Here is is the the simple simple math. math. We We know know this this for for certain certain that that 80% 80% of the police budget pays for officer's salaries. So the police chief as well as the police union will tell you if you cut that in half. You're going to lose hundreds of officers, and we're hearing anywhere from 700 to 800 could potentially be fired. The Seattle police officers go president told me he gets it. People want reform and they work for the people. So we've got to make some reform here, but he calls de funding the department by 50%. Just unrealistic and political. If council approves of 50% cut in this year's budget, they allege again, it would meet 800 officers would be fired. That's 800 out of 1300. And they argue, it would mean longer Wait times for 911 calls and an increase in crime. The chair as Chop failed experiment. Would look like child's play compared to cutting up to 800 officers from the SPD due to the council's naive and dangerous proposal to remove 50% of a budget. Who will answer that night. No one call. You're gonna wait. We gonna wait and wait and wait. The mayor has called for a 5% cut to this year's budget, or $20 million cut. But right now we know seven of nine council members have pledged to support a goal of cutting the police budget this year by 50% but it is a work in progress. And they're taking in a lot of input. So now really is the time for counsel to hear from you. The chief has also been on the record, saying that these kinds of cuts would actually decimate public safety. That's commas. Michelle
Fresh update on "police union" discussed on Rush Limbaugh
"The Houston Police Union says officers will not actively look for violators of the states A mask mandate despite Mayor Turner's Threat of a $250 fine for those who ignore it. Obviously of the person continues to refuse to do that, and doesn't have any of the exemptions than an officer may issued a citation but also have extreme discretion. All missed. Our officers do not want to be right people citations for not wearing a mask, and I would anticipate few, if any, fail to comply and don't actually do it. Unions. Ray Hunt says HPD does not have the manpower to police backyard barbecues, picnics in the park or block parties, but Police will respond to businesses where a customer refuses to wear a mask or leave the property. Covert 19 pandemics so far hasn't slowed construction of the president's border. Wall. Customs and Border protection chief Mark Morgan is confident they will finish the 400 miles of Wall planned this year also pointed out the wall has been an effective tool that's stopping illegal immigration. We're going to shift to another area where maybe one doesn't exist right now, But that's OK, because we know that's where we're going to go and we can shift our resource is there Even during the pandemic. Morgan. Morgan says they're still about 1200 arrests being made every day along the Southwest border. A San Antonio doctor who heads the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons says it's time to stop demonizing hadrt actually chlorate Quinn as a possible treatment for Cove in 19 doctor, Kristen held, says several studies have shown it works. It's a 65 year old drug that's extremely safe that's been used from Larry around the world and seems tto work at low doses, safe doses without problems. But even the White House testing's our says it's time to stop promoting the drug, arguing it's not effective Senate Judiciary subcommittee on the Constitution held a hearing today on violence and criminal acts tied to the Communist Antifa movement on Fox and Friends Chairman Senator Ted Cruz of Texas, says lawmakers have to take a strong stance this violent.
Los Angeles PD Creates New Bureau, Announces New Reforms in Policing Philosophy
"The sitting itself is responding to the protest over alleged racism and police conduct by announcing to bureau within the LAPD. Jeevan Kumar says Setting up the community Safety Partnership Bureau leads to some changes in approach. This model represents a pivot, you will a strategy of moving ourselves away from a containment and suppression model. The one that is increased community capacity, a sense of overall safety. You see the lower levels of crime? In concert with lower number of arrests but increase trust Now the proposal gets a cool welcome from the police union. The president Craig Lally, telling connects there. No details on staffing. And in fact, he suspects officers will be taken off patrol for this new bureau.
Fresh "Police Union" from Rush Limbaugh
"Only a 20% chance of getting wet. I'm meteorologist Terry Smith from the weather Channel 86 on the island 87 at the rage, Top tax defenders. 24 hour Weather center 11 0 to our top story, despite the mares threat of a $250 fine for ignoring the state's mask mandate. Ray Hunt with the Houston Police Union says officers will not be actively looking for violators. Promise Shi'ar police officers are not going to be coming into your backyard and looking for people who aren't wearing masks. We're not gonna be that kind of police department. We never have been and never will be. If we're called to the scene, obviously, and there's someone there who's violating the governor's order, and we're going to encourage them to please go get a mask and put a mask on. One says H P D is 911 center is ignoring calls from Karen's looking to report their neighbors, but they will respond to businesses of a mass violator refuses to leave the property. Head of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons is throwing her support behind. Hydroxy Clark went to treat Cove in 19 San Antonio, Dr Kristin held says It's no big deal to use the drug for something other than for what it was meant. We drugs off label. 20 to 30% of the time and, in fact in some situations were forced to use drugs off label because it saves money Doctor held points to a study by Detroit's Henry Ford Health System that show's success and treating Covad patients early on, But Dr Anthony Fauci and others argue that study was flawed. U. S. Customs and Border Protection chief Mark Morgan says the pandemic has not stopped the border wall from going up. I'm absolutely confident that we're going to exceed and definitely meet the 450 miles that we have said We're going to meet by the end of this year, and it's AH It's been an incredible effective tool. In fact, he says, even during the pandemic, they're still about 1200 arrests being made every day along the southwest border. The wall, he says, gives the agents time needed to stop border crossing attempt. Booking dot com is pointed to lay off 4000 employees starting in September. The layoffs will effect 25% of their workforce globally. Katie Ridge Moneyman Patch in says BP stock is doing well this morning. Stocks are trading next following yesterday's big game shares of oil giant BP or in the spotlight today, the stock is up sharply in spite of booking a record loss in the second quarter. The company's cutting their stock dividend by 1/2. They've also announced 10,000 job cuts. The Dow is up about 1/2 a percent up 121. The S and P is up seven. A NASDAQ Up just to Oil Future Contract had 41 65. Katie RATES News time. 11 0 for President Trump participated in a signing ceremony today for the Great American Outdoors Act. The Great American Outdoors Act provides $900 million a year. And guaranteed.
Chicago officials uneasy as Trump plans to send US agents to help deal with spike in crime
"Investigations agents to Chicago and other cities. Help local law enforcement deal with a spike in crime. These agents will likely assistant intelligence gathering targeting drug trafficking groups and gangs, but there's a lot of pushback on this plan. More on this will speak to Nick mere off Department of Homeland Security reporter at The Washington Post. Well as many of your listeners will be aware there's been a significant increase in violent crime in several U. S. Cities over the past few months. Chicago, New York and elsewhere have seen a lot of gun violence in particular. Now, one of the tricky things is that that dynamic Is being conflated with the situation we're seeing unfold in Portland, which is quite different where protesters are squaring off against federal agents outside a courthouse every night. That is very much a kind of political dynamic that we saw several months ago after the killing of George Floyd. And what the president is talking about going forward would be sort of a federal response to this increase in violent crime, and so far, we know that that's plan for Chicago. Oh, but that firm operations are scheduled the occur any other U. S city so far and to further clarify that distinction. What's going on in Portland? The agents that were dispatched they are there to protect federal property, basically and in Chicago. This is more of a response to crime That's going on there, which has gone up. There's a lot of different things that is going on. There's a lot of shootings. There's a lot of homicides that are going on, and that's what they're talking about with regards to Chicago. One of the things that we're seeing is that the president in his rhetoric and probably his campaign rhetoric is kind of trying to complete the two things and saying that the kind of rowdy street protests that we're seeing in Portland particularly attacking this federal courthouse that's being defended by DHHS agents every night. You know that that is the kind of anarchy That he says is playing out on US streets everywhere and is to blame for this increase in shootings, and he's laying that squarely at the feet of democratic mayors. He said yesterday in the Oval Office that the radical left mayors are responsible for this and that he's going to basically send in the feds whether they like it or not. And you know he's warning that if Joe Biden, his opponent were to win that we would see this kind of chaos breaking out across the country, so it's very consistent with his Campaign effort to present himself as a kind of law and order figure who can pacified the cities and bring everything under control. But again, VHS officials when you talked to Dick down, make very clear that they don't see the Portland situation as being comparable to what's happening in these U. S cities and are planning a very different deployment for both cases. So in Chicago. They're looking to send about 150 homeland security investigative agents there. It doesn't sound like they're going to be out on the streets doing enforcement making arrests. Things like that. So what would they be doing there in Chicago to aid local police? Also, homeland security investigations was a division of immigration and Customs enforcement ice and immediately that makes people think of immigration agents and that particular division of Ice is the one that targets transnational crime, drug trafficking, counterfeit goods, things like that. And so in this case, they say they will not be involved in an immigration enforcement role, but will be working on Surveillance and helping local and state authorities that air targeting gangs, drug traffickers and the actors. They say. We're really driving this increase in homicide. It's not a civilian or urban policing role where they will be out on the streets, and it has nothing to do with antigovernment protests. Unlike the situation in Portland What is the local response Been? I know the mayor Lori Lightfoot has said, you know she doesn't want Federal agents there. What else have they been saying? Well, that's you know, a dynamic that we see over and over again where it's sort of like this had occurred quietly and state and local officials would be getting support from the federal government, as they always do, because again, a lot of these Federal agents are already working in that area, working in the Metro Chicago area and cooperate with state local police. There's a routine part of their job. It's when you see the president Making it into a kind of campaign related effort into a projection of his power into a standoff with Democrats that you politicize it, and you get that response from the Mayor Lightfoot and others who I think you know, out of hand feel they have to kind of rejected. This deployment with the idea that they can't be seen as sort of accepting the president imposing federal forces on their cities, particularly from an agency like immigration, Customs Force Mint ice that has such a damaged reputation right now, What about response from police? There has been a lot of stuff there. As I mentioned there's been 414 homicides more than 600 shootings more than 2000 shooting victims. This year so far. What about police? Chicago Police Union and other police union's welcome that federal support and want the federal government to help and not a particular point of tension. I think between Democratic mayors who are responding to his calls to define the police abolished, the police enter patient know very tenuous situation on the streets after George Floyd and the Police Department's themselves at least the unions that feel Besieged and unfairly blamed or painted with a broad brush. I think for the president is trying to get inside that rift and tryto short of their support and his image as a defender of law and order. All the plans are still being worked out, so we'll see what the rollout looks like Nick Mirror off Department of Homeland Security reporter at the Washington Post. Thank you very much for joining us my pleasure anytime.
Philadelphia police officer charged for pepper spraying kneeling protesters on I-676
"Are being filed against the Philadelphia police officer who was fired for using pepper spray on people who were marching on 6 76 during the recent unrest in the city of Philadelphia. The story from Cabo W's majority. The incident was caught on video during unrest in Philly June 1st Officer Richard Nicoletti was suspended with the intent to dismiss last month. The larger message is that we are lifting up the good and decent and hard working Police officers in Philadelphia by knocking ones who commit crimes out of the way, D A. Larry Krasner says. Nicoletti faces three counts each of simple assault, reckless endangerment and official oppression. We looked at the specific definitions of the charges, and we did not let strong feeling or emotion get in the way of the legal analysis. Officer Nicoletti says He was only following orders. Mayor Kenny and Commissioner Outlaw have both apologized for the use of tear gas and pepper spray to disperse the crowd on 6 76 The police union will support the officer in court union President John MK Nesby says Krasner is only interested in charging police officers and not the people who looted or set fires in the city. Mike Doherty, K Y. W News radio in
Philadelphia SWAT officer seen pepper spraying kneeling protesters to be charged
"Attorney's office says charges are being filed against the SWAT officers seen on video pepper spraying kneeling protesters on the vine Treat expressway last month. Hey, why W's Mike Doherty joins us Live with a story I, Mike. Brendan, the district attorney's office confirmed Richard Nicoletti will face several charges for the incident. Caught on video. He was suspended last month with the intent to dismiss for the June 1st clash on the Vine Street Expressway. When a massive group of people marched onto the highway. There have been numerous apologies from the mayor and from the police commissioner for the use of tear gas and other tactics. Used to disperse the crowd. We're just getting this information now from the D A. So we don't exactly know yet what charges will be filed assault and reckless endangerment are likely to be included. The police union President John MC Nesby has blasted this decision to file charges, saying quote once again D A Larry Krasner is only charging Philadelphia police officers following the unrest in the city. Krasner refuses to hold unlawful protesters accountable Those who set fire and looted our great city. His top priority is to push his anti police agenda and quote MK Nesby says. The union union will will also also defend defend Nickelodeon Nickelodeon court. court.
Portland mayor demands Trump remove federal agents from city
"The city's mayor, Ted Wheeler, says the federal law enforcement agents of Trump Administration has sent to his city are not helping. What happened instead is the feds stepped in with a very heavy handed approach, and it blew the lid off the whole thing, so their presence here it's not wanted. It's not Needed and it's really lead to a serious escalation of an already tense situation. We don't want him here. We want him to leave federal agent somewhere in camouflage and driving. Unmarked cars are accused of violating protestor civil rights. The state's attorney general is seeking a court order to stop them from arresting people in Portland Mayor Wheeler spoke to NPR is protest this weekend saw police declare a riot last night. After demonstrators set Friars and Dumpsters and inside the police union headquarters. The protests have been part of daily life in Portland since the killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis. A woman found an activist group in
NJ Attorney General says police internal affairs records should be more accessible to public
"Attorney general has ruled that police internal affairs records, including disciplinary reports should be made more accessible to the public. WCBS reporter Sean Adams joins us live from Fort Lee this morning with that story, Shawn. All in the eyes of New Jersey's attorney general Gerbier Gray wall. This is about trust and transparency, he signalled to a Senate committee committee yesterday yesterday changes changes coming. coming. He's He's rethinking rethinking New New Jersey's Jersey's policy policy of of strict strict confidentiality confidentiality when when it it comes comes to to police police internal internal investigations. investigations. The The attorney attorney general is leaning toward granting the public more access to police disciplinary records. He pointed to several other states that are more open. Victims, witnesses and whistleblowers would not be identified if they chose to remain anonymous. Last month, Gray Wall said he would release the names of fired, demoted and suspended police officers going back 20 years. Five Police union sued and Appeals court put the release on hold while the case is being considered. Attorney general is also rethinking use of force policies live
Mayor Kenney: Philadelphia to waive protest-related code violation notices
"Hundreds of Philadelphia protesters who received citations for disorderly conduct and other minor offenses are now off the hook, Cabe y. W. City Hall Bureau chief Pat Lobe reports. The mayor has decided to waive all protests related citations. City Solicitor Marcel Pratt recommended the waiver. He says moving forward with the citations would serve no useful purpose consistent with the spirit of reform and reconciliation. Using resource is to process and go after code violation notices for the protest just didn't make sense. Mayor Kenny says He accepted the recommendation and recognition that the concerns that prompted the protests are important. And the message that black lives matter needs to be. Heard every day until racism is eradicated. Police union President John MK Nesby sees it differently. He issued a statement saying the move is an endorsement of outright lawlessness and a surrender of any attempt to hold people accountable for criminal activity. The citations are actually civil matters, not criminal. Anyone who received one from May 30th to June 30th need not pay it or take any further action. Those who paid can get refunds go to K y w news radio dot com for the number to call to get the refund process
Children are among the victims of July 4 weekend gun violence across the US
"Was a really violent one or in terms of shootings, gun violence in a number of cities across the country are going to break down some of the numbers just to give you an idea and, unfortunately included small Children. Across the country. A seven year old girl in Chicago shot in the head while she was playing with some friends. On Saturday. A 14 year old killed in a separate Chicago shooting Washington D. C. 11 year old boy shot and killed while running into the house to grab a phone charger. At least 24 people were shot in Atlanta on Saturday into Sunday evening for them died, including an eight year old girl. Who was driving in a car with her mom and a friend, and it has people like the mayor of Atlanta. Very, very concerned. We're fighting the enemy was in Well, we're shooting each other up on our streets in that sitting shot and killed a baby That is Atlanta Mayor Key shit. Lance bottom. She held a press conference after the shooting to talk about the tragedy. And if I'm not mistaken, Christina's she also at one point in time with in the past recent weeks. Talked about the need to defund the police department as well. Right? This is happening in other cities, this movement, obviously to defund the police department. And if you talk to police unions, they say that you know, morale is at an all time low among police department. That's awesome Video out of New York, where 11 people were shot and killed over the weekend of NYPD car rolling through a neighborhood as people just like tossed bottles at it, and the officers did not get out of the car. So apparently they disbanded this anti crime unit and a lot of the officers are retiring. There just their morale is low, and the union at least says This is part of the reason why we are seeing this crime spike that people are criminals are emboldened to come out because they know that they probably won't be arrested. Here's another audio clip from mayor Bottoms from Atlanta, talking about the passion that she sees right now towards ending community violence that she has seen towards police reform. Do you want people to take a seriously? You want. You don't want us to lose his movement that we we can't can't lose lose each each other. other. Here's Here's one one more more clip clip from from their their bottoms bottoms from from Atlanta. Atlanta. This This random random Wow! Wow! Wow, Wow, Wes, Wes, shoot shoot him him up. up. Because you can It's gotta stop. It has to stop. But the problem is when you talk about like New York City, and they pull all of those officers off the streets, and you talked about the increased they've had a 200% increase in shootings, 116 shootings took place in New York since officers were reassigned. That was in June 15th. To July 2nd, that same number that same time for him last year. 38 shootings 1 16/38 right one year and you know they've talked and in the cities where they're talking about defending the police. They've talked about putting other community safety professionals in place that hasn't happened and if it did I don't know if you want to send them out if people are shooting, no, especially if they're unarmed, So they're just Yeah, it's an issue. It's an issue that we're seeing. And there's a cause and effect here. Yeah, we wanted to bring you just some of the headlines making Ah, making news this morning in Atlanta in Chicago and in New York out to
"police union" Discussed on Behind the Bastards
"The door to a kind of socio biology that led her and Stein to co author, the openly racist, the bell curve with Charles, Murray, who was also a close associate of Wilson, so the bell curve if you're not aware thoroughly to credit discredited book. Book about Iq race that into place of honor in every racist bookshelf, yes, and so Wilson is friends with both of the authors of that and works on a book with one of the authors of that. This is the guy. Who Cohen Vince broken windows theory of policing. That's that's where he's swimming in that fucking see yeah, and it's so like hearing August. It's so clear you know it's so obvious. You know coupled with my own just experience and just like. I got it all just hearing it altogether. It's just like yes. Yes? That's so. I'm not crazy. You really do think this about US got it. Yup Yeah. So the broken windows. Theory gave ideological cover to people who want to empower the US. Police to interfere more directly in the daily lives of more particularly non white people. Prevention of crime had been the goal since the days of Volmer, but what that meant had changed now poverty and social disorganization were seen as the results of crime and the causes, and thus the best. Best Way to reform society was to repeatedly punish people for minor criminal behavior. Vitale goes on broken windows. Policing is at route deeply conservative attempt to shift the burden of responsibility for declining living conditions onto the poor themselves, and to argue that the solution to all social ills is increasingly aggressive, invasive and restrictive forms of policing that involve more arrests, more harassment and ultimately more violence. While so the solution of poverty ain't jobs. No, it's punishment. Yeah, you gotTa Stop Them from breaking breaking windows in their neighborhood by arresting them for weed or whatever yeah, Yo the nuance that like use it like like snatched that out the sky, the nuance of saying. I'm going to try to say like you like the quote said which was like. Like the cause. That the cause of crime was not the poverty. The cause of poverty was the crime in. That's the part where I'm just like. There's your mistake there. It is right if if you've ever heard the term like like a crime of survival, then like you understand what we talking about here where it says like you have that. Completely backwards you know what I'm saying if you if you think that the the the cause of the poverty is the crime rather than saying. The cause of the crime is the poverty. Yeah, that is like that fundamental switch. Everything will start making sense now when you when you understand that like. The laws are the crime. The laws probably unjust already so this act of survival shouldn't be a crime in the first place, because it's an active survival right, but when you understand it as just an active survival, right then the idea of punishing a person for trying to survive. Seems preposterous because yes yeah. So. One example of the violence caused by broken windows. Policing would be the famous in the tragic death of Eric Garner. If you've forgotten I know you haven't. Home Garner was busted for selling cigarettes illegally. He was choked to death by officers in his famous cry. I can't breathe has probably become the most powerful slogan. The black lives matter movement. Just Kinda sums everything up. Yeah, you might be surprised to learn..
"police union" Discussed on Behind the Bastards
"Romney demand, who try to keep Barack? Obama's second term away from us, joins the black lives matter March. WHEN NASCAR fans the confederate flag when Donald Trump of all people encourages cops not to joke people. We're having a moment. You can listen. We're having a moment on the iheartradio APP apple podcast and wherever you get your podcast. We're back and we started talking about Carne Asada fries which. I, normally very happy with my decision to live in the Pacific northwest, but whenever somebody says, Carney Asada I long for southern California. Yeah. So. Go for some carnage Asada fries. We have to talk about police unions instead so. Yeah so. Let's let's talk about. A Pawn McDonald. So yeah, in two thousand, fourteen seventeen year old on McDonald was murdered by Chicago police officer Jason Van Dyke. The media furor around this launched an investigation which revealed that officer Van. Dyke had previously been the subject of repeated complaints. The report noted that a code of silence about misconduct was baked into Labor agreements between police unions and the city, and that this ensured that nothing had been done about officer Van Dyke before he killed a child. Van Dyke was eventually convicted of second degree murder in sixteen accounts of aggravated battery with a Firearm Sixteen is the number of times he shot him. Van Dyke was found not guilty of any official misconduct, though guilty of murder, but not guilty of. Improperly behaving as a police officer. Yeah, yes, where did murder somebody and you're going to go to prison for it, but you also didn't break the rules of your job. This. Jobs fine yeah wow. Yeah, what do we do with that one? Yeah, ironically given their role in murdering the shit out of unions for close to one hundred years, police might be the most successful example of unionization in the US history, not in terms of like. Benefits to society. Benefit to the profession of policing, but at least in terms of the sheer amount of power that they wield. They say offices boy. ABC's Yes labor historian, Joseph, mccartin notes, they have more clout than other public sector unions like the teachers and sanitation workers, because they have often been able to command the political support of Republicans. That's given them a huge advantage. Police unions are one fortunate area where we have a single human being who embodies all of the evil that these institutions and do and when I talk about a single human being who embodies evil police unions. There's no one else could be talking about but lieutenant, Bob. Kroll head of the Minneapolis Police Union. President of the Minneapolis Police Union, BOB has of course, appealed the firing of Derek Chavez and the other three cops who murder George Floyd Salas. They were fired without due process..
"police union" Discussed on Behind the Bastards
"Yeah, but they don't if a, if somebody who works like they're not able to like the fucking. A A union representing grocery store employees doesn't make it impossible for you to tell which grocery store employees are stabbing people because grocery store employees don't do that and when they do, they tend to go to prison and working at the nobody nobody. The the unions don't rush into. Be Like no, no, no, you have to keep employing this man. All he did was stabbed three people. People like yeah. I'm like that doesn't protect you from being from sucking at your job right I mean. There's a little bit like that's a. that's a fair argument. That like unions keep people sometimes teachers who are bad at teaching. Stay on. Okay Yeah Yeah. Yeah Fair Fair enough, but the going back to your now gm like you can't just licked apples. Yeah, and then be like Yo my union protects me because I got a right to lick the apples and I'm like. No you. Is that's not joe function like you know I think and just going back to the police. I'm like you know. What do you have a hard job? You should be paid well. You're right. You should be paid well. You have a hard job, but what is not show job. Is being another gang in our neighborhoods and terrorizing people in a color? Job Yes not be protected for doing it. That's what Union's protect them for. Instead of just being like. Oh, well, we're workers to, and we should be able to advocate for higher pay like and also if we beat someone, we should be able to hide that from the public That's what happens almost immediately with you get to. You know that's not one of your perks. Okay? Yeah, that's the biggest perk, so yeah two. Two Thousand Seventeen Reuters special report on police. Union contracts and eighty two US cities found that most departments are now required to erase officer disciplinary records after a set period of time, sometimes officers records purged every six months eighteen cities expunged suspensions in three years or less Reuters found that nearly half a police union contracts guaranteed officers accused of bad behavior, the right to see their entire investigative file including witness statements made against them. What is rare what I wonder what their defense for that is because we know exactly what you're doing, but what their argument for that you know you shouldn't you shouldn't. No, it's not fair for anyone to be charged with a crime without getting to see the claims made by their accusers, unless those people are charging, the police are being charged by the police of a crime. And then there's actually all sorts of ways we have to hide that. Yeah. Yeah Yeah. Is Cognitive, yes. So..
Minneapolis police union says there's no problem with systemic racism, but is open to reform
"Yesterday in the one o'clock hour Bob Kroll was her feature gassed in machines on right now to talk about this the the interview rishi thanks for coming on give me give me from when you're in the moment when you look back at it the most notable part of the interview the the some of some of the comments of Bob Kroll made that to you has so much been a journalist for a long time most news worthy well I think it's partly when he was trying to describe the union's role and the four different I think he said mayoral terms that he was part of the negotiations over the years with the union contract and I thought that was notable and that's part of the reason I actually wanted him to come on was to help people really understand what is the role of the union because I watched for weeks now as a lot of people are blaming him for my city burning down and I'm telling you it's my city because I live in it you and I work in it and I know there are a lot of layers to this is a dynamic situation and I don't know that you can put the blame for what happened on the weekends during the week of may twenty fifth on any one doorstep and I know you can't put it on his because that's just not his role so when he described the role of the union the negotiations from his past with past administrations mayors city council and then that he does want to be it sounds to me like part of the solution I asked him if he's visited the site I asked him did he visit thirty eighth in Chicago and he said he didn't really visited he went by it and that was interesting for me because he probably would you help me I don't know but my guess is he knew it might have been a spectacle if he had shown up but I think it was important that he at least drove by it and that's why I asked about that a number of times with me and a number of times this last week when he did a series of interviews he was asked if he believes there are systemic racism within the police department which then affects people of color in Minneapolis he we he adamantly said no you'll have said on the station many times as a person of color that you have face racism in the city of Minneapolis is it then fair to say that you don't agree with Bob Kroll on his point I think the question was is there systemic racism in the police department I think there is systemic racism in our city I think there is in our entire state I believe it is so insisted that a lot of people don't really understand it you know questions Chad that I've gotten in my mother has gotten throughout our lifetimes where you from and when we say Dinah accessory grew up that's where she still lives people come back at us with more questions will know where you from and I know where they're going and I I kind of don't want to play ball so finally I will say if you mean my country of origin I was born in Sri Lanka but I'm an American so like it it was that kind of commentary that I'm talking about it's as a specific they'll because Bob pushes back and says of those separately there is not systemic racism in the Minneapolis police department I adamantly disagree I think the data is over well me where do you stand do you think there's systemic racism in the Minneapolis police department how you would be treated compared to how I would be treated it's an interesting question because I think the black Minneapolis resident is treated differently from you and for me I have not been pulled over because I'm brown I was actually murdered at gun point in twenty thirteen and the Minneapolis police officers and other members of the system connected to juvenile court that dealt with me we're very respectful I think Bob can have an opinion that there's not systemic racism you can believe there is I mean I'm probably leaning closer to you on this because I think this city there's an issue with systemic racism in the city I mean I take it to even the renaming of lake Calhoun we renamed lake Calhoun because Calhoun was bad well the name we replace it with is from a native peoples and also did some things other native people but some people don't have issues with that so there's racism everywhere is it systemic absolutely in our city in our state is only happening at the police department no I think when you have mayors and Cassidy council people who aren't necessarily passing the laws in the ordinances that are fair to all of us you know when it comes to getting loans when it comes to other parts of living in what we have to do it it goes very deep and this is where a state it is a dynamic and very layered problem why is my deep blue black is not just on the police it really isn't
"police union" Discussed on The Daily
"Thought it was..
"police union" Discussed on The Daily
"Right and I think for for the people. WHO ARE CALLING FOR REFORM? What you have described as a problem is to them a problem as well. Police officers trained for one thing public safety being asked. To respond to all manner of scenarios that are not pure questions of public safety, and then there being problems and those encounters that have now led people to question why police respond to those in the first place. Good point I mean I can't disagree what. Do. You ever find yourself as a union leader. Representing a police officer who has been disciplined. And who faces perhaps expulsion termination? And yet because of a contract or because of your own. Union instincts and ethos. You're supposed to defend them. I'm thinking about for example. Officers that we have learned about over the past few years with. Ten twelve, fifteen, seventeen. Complaints of his conduct against them who ended up in one of these shootings and everyone looks back and says well look at that record, and then I always imagined maybe a misogynist. There's a union official. Maybe it looks like you and he is defending that officer. From. Being terminated. I think us a broad brush. What I I took over in. Florida the Union. First elected as the president. I lost members because. I refused the lie for him. To. Try to keep their jobs. By job as a union representative is to give you the ability to be treated fairly. If, you did wrong. We need to go forth in. Go before whomever. We have to go for for your due process. The one fortunate thing that I have a right to work state as I'm not bound to represent everybody I have the right, even though you pay the dues to us and there. I have the right to turn down for representation. The reason I'm asking these questions because some police unions around the country have resisted efforts to make public complaints against police officers, and they have fiercely resisted. Eliminating firing police officers who are. Accused of a pattern of misconduct. Do you feel like unions are invested. In the status quo in ways that mean. That it is. Going to be hard is hard will always be hard to change policing in this country..
Six Injured, Including Police Officer, and Suspect Is Fatally Shot in Glasgow
"A police officer and five other people are hospitalized after an attack in Scotland Scottish police saying six people have been hospitalized including a police officer after incidents in the city of Glasgow a police union saying the officer was stabbed the suspected attacker has been shot dead by police emergency teams racing to a street in the center of the city that's crowded with hotels shops and restaurants there's no word on a motive but police say the threat has been contained Scotland's first minister calling the incident
CLEAT threatens lawsuit over police protective gear
"The state's largest police union issues the threat of a lawsuit over protective gear thank you to director of the combined law enforcement association of Texas says make no mistake about it someone will be here and we'll be servicing with fox seven Charlie will cousins as there is a way to prevent that lawsuit give cops more protective gear and re authorize the use of certain crowd control devices that were done away with by the city council and APD chief Brian Manley not well thought out way to run the city not the way to run a police department however the Austin police union says it has been in talks with chief Manley about buying new equipment and the association is hopeful that will
Minneapolis police union says there's no problem with systemic racism, but is open to reform
"We are hearing for the first time in weeks today from controversial police union president Bob Kroll in a taped interview with Gayle king on CBS this morning Kroll does not offer an opinion on the George Floyd killing citing the fact that he has not seen all the evidence but admits that so far what is out there quote looks and sounds horrible as for the question of whether he believes there is a problem with systemic racism within the department I do not Rachel issues certainly need to be addressed and we are willing to work through that as we have done in in year after year many years in the police department we are all engage our federations always stepped up we had a police community relations council that was in existence for many years that the federation had a seat at the table and will there are racial issues is it systemic racism not in my opinion as we mentioned Kroll appeared on CBS his wife is employed by WCCO television which is owned by CBS WCCO radio is not new information about the number of people shot in Minneapolis since George Floyd was killed police say one hundred eleven people were shot seven were fatalities in seventy eight incidents while police are not saying the shootings were gang related community activists Trey Pollard says he believes there could be as many as three hundred young people who are claiming some sort of affiliation right now they don't have nothing so for them to run down the street in broad daylight should know somebody there I mean my dad like that's normal right now for them Pollard founded we push for peace he says he's got five or six men that work on the front lines doing crowd control in trying to stop the shootings but he says they need more funding in order to make a real
Minneapolis police union says there's no problem with systemic racism, but is open to reform
"The president of the police officers federation of Minneapolis giving his first interview since four of that city's officers were charged in the death of George Floyd Bob Kroll telling CBS this morning he does not believe racism is systemic in the Minneapolis department I am the first African American ever elected to the Minneapolis police federation and a hundred and fifty two years you know what I see I see progress president probably in Arizona today to view border wall construction and to hold a campaign rally and this is U. S. A. radio
Text Message Urges Chicago Police Officers To Call In Sick, Limit Arrests In A ‘Blue Flu’
"Weekend a lot of Chicago's bloodiest in years more than a hundred people were shot thirteen of them killed and amid the violence officers reportedly got a text message from members of the police union encouraging them to limit arrests or even call out sick reporter Dana Kozlov says they called the blue flu sources tell us police officers were getting a text encouraging them to call in sick the apple P. lodge seven cannot advocate for it it reads but individual officers can't was not about a blue flu I don't know where that originated from says John cannons there of the newly elected president of the union but he didn't dismiss it pointing to recent weeks of cancel days off we tell people if they're canceling your days off this weekend consider not reporting to your canceled off the mayor Lori Lightfoot could basically tell officers to abandon their post that is the height of dereliction of duty the mayor says there's no evidence at this point that more officers than usual have called in sick
Minneapolis police union says there's no problem with systemic racism, but is open to reform
"Bob Kroll the president of the Minneapolis police federation gave his first public interview since George Floyd's death Bob Cole do you think there is a systemic racism problem in the Minneapolis police force I do not Rachel issues that certainly need to be addressed and we are willing to work through that as we have done in in year after year many years in the police department we are all engage our federations always stepped up that was Bob Kroll on CBS this morning I listen to the full six and a half minute interview here's what stuck out to me one they said the union we're not allowed to see and review the video the part of the body camera video only saw the Facebook post and they did say it's horrific but that they can't make an informed decision on other officers and they can't really
"police union" Discussed on All In with Chris Hayes
"Everyone it's mainly MSNBC, correspondent and host of the podcast into America another unarmed black man was killed by police over the weekend this time in Atlanta Rashard Brooks twenty-seven. The officer who shot Brooks has been fired. The police chief had resigned while across the country protests continue. Why did it have to escalate? Why did there have to be a chase if he was running away? Run, why did it get to the point where you felt that? You had to chase after him and ultimately used? NBC News. Correspondent Blaine Alexander brings us. The latest from Georgia and we talk about the emotional toll of being a black journalist covering this moment. Search for into America. Wherever you're listening right now. It's subscribed. Terrifying violence seen in Albuquerque yesterday when people gathered to man the removal of statue of a brutal. Door responsible for massacring indigenous people. An armed right wing militia showed up to defend the statue and one are man shot a protester. Warning some people find the following video upsetting. Now. It's unclear what happened immediately before this. Here's the man the blue shirts Steven Baca junior was kind of defending the statue. Haka pushes a protest or the crowd turns on him. He said with a skateboard about fifteen seconds later a protest or tackled him, and then Baku got up. He was holding handgun and he fires four shots heard on the video. Shooting one protester who is still in critical condition tonight. Took into custody and detained several militiamen as well in a facebook post, the militia groups said Baca is not one of their members. Local news reports the right wing former city council candidate, joining me now New Mexico governor. Michelle Luhan Grisham governor. What is your understanding of what happened last night? And how is your state responding to it? Plans to things Frankly you got what we understand to be. The facts as we're starting the investigation. Exactly right. We are incredibly horrified and disturbed. We're about to go into a budget. Special Session starts on Thursday and. Police reform and racial injustice are going to be topics that we will get through in a couple of days to see if we can't. Do Better than the militarization of our police and having militia engaged to only to provoke violence at peaceful protests. These have to be addressed. The state has a clear role to make a difference here. Yeah I mean. In some ways. So unnerving about last night, and it's something that's been going through my head through. Much of this is you know things are just different? When people armed I think we would all agree right if a thousand people in the street protesting, that's one thing if a thousand people in the street protesting and they're all carrying guns. That's another if five hundred are on each side, and they're all carrying guns. That's another entirely like what do you? How do you understand this? In terms of the role that weapons play or coming arm to these kinds of events? So Chris. A couple years ago. I was talking to that. New Mexicans and folks across the country that this country it occurs to me, has a very negative gun culture, and when I became elected governor. One of the first things I did was instruct our department of Health to treat gun violence as the public health epidemic that frankly it is, and there is no question that when you are gathering or marching or protesting, and there's a group of armed citizens with automatic weapons who are completely. Dressed in military gear. Their only role is to provoke and to seek intimidation of individuals who are peacefully protesting and. This horrific example that played out in Albuquerque. I have been incredibly grateful that we haven't had such a situation given the last twenty plus days in this country and the incredible work of peaceful protesters, but make no mistake. This is not the first time this particular militia has been engaging in public and I think it's time we find a way to be clear. All our constitutional rights are valid my constitutional right to be safe in my community needs to be upheld, and we have got to stop this intimidation and stop allowing. Armed men and women whose only purpose is to create havoc and harm. At at these gatherings it's unacceptable and we even we have the ability to do something about it right now. In this country and New Mexico intense. I intend to do something about it. I want to read you something that a Simon Romero's New York Times reporter who had fought whose work I followed forever. He's been. He's reported in Latin. America of for years he said I've covered violent street protests in Caracas. Rio never felt threatened as last night in Albuquerque at one point. Our militia member taunted me working the New York. Times police for sight why wider the thirties cede control the scene to extremist gunman. Do you have an answer to that? Do you think it's a fair question? It's an incredibly fair question, and it's why the state is gonNA investigate. This action last night and not allow the investigation by internally by the local police. Why did they allow the militia to be present? Where were they? Why did they only show up? I'm hearing reports. Twenty one minutes after nine one one calls were made. Where were they when they showed up? It was more like a swat presence. Why were they shooting rubber bullets at a peacefully fleeing protesters? Why did they allow this? The shooter Mr Baca to engage with protesters before the actual horrific incident that has a young man fighting for his life in in our hospital. There were plenty of warning signs and I fear. That we have some folks in our law enforcement. Entities. Who I think CAV promoted potentially. The efforts of these laws. And we intend to independently investigate that in determine exactly what's? Going on so I agree with the New, York Times reporter. And I I'M A. Lifelong New Mexican lived in Albuquerque for. Decades before having this incredible job, and I've never seen anything like that. Anywhere in our state and no doubt, the militia played a violent role in what occurred and we. We.
"police union" Discussed on 1A
"Unions are sometimes hurdles to changing. Regulations or on behavior and conduct will all organizations unions any organizations are most groups are afraid of change, but change comes from the public. It's drives elected officials, and then it drives the conversation, but we're leaving out that in Texas where I bargained. We have bargained scores and scores of reform broad-band hiring. Supported the department and the city, and trying to get more men and women of color. So you would you say is the council comes up with an idea in the police officers through their union have a different idea, but all of a sudden one idea is better than the other. Now we've not opposed not in Texas, and the unions are. We've not opposed. Are Union pushed for the cameras in the cars back before video on the body we push for a diversity and cultural training. In Texas, we push for licensing a peace officers to get rid of those dote Zor. Those changes came from the unions not from management. Booker. Do you think that police unions? Block efforts for police reform. Absolutely. But at the same time, people have to understand that the union's job to defend their members right. I mean that's basically what people were paying. Union dues fours as for the Union to to. Defend their members, but I WANNA go back to one thing that that drawn said here. I think often gets overlooked in this union conversation is that these union contracts are always? The Police Union doesn't approve their own contract. These contracts are approved and rectified by elected bodies. So everything in that contract has been put in there over the years you know like for example there's union contracts that don't allow police chief to till. Dictate what type of uniform officers where? All of these things are placed in these contracts by. Elected officials and I think that that often time gets overlooked discussion contracts. Our listeners are obviously they seem to be very insistent that you have to approach police unions differently from other unions, so let me get to a few comments. Jennifer says you can't compare police jobs to teach your jobs. Police Unions to teacher unions teachers have to pay for their own extensive ongoing education that. That goes on over the years and never ends. The public has a great deal of access to information about teachers they do get fired. They are held accountable and emails I'm a union supporter I'm a member of the teamsters myself that said I do not support police unions. Police unions are not labor unions. Police officers are empowered government officials, not workers who need to be protected. From Exploitation Police Department do not or should not. For profit, their labor is a public expense rather than something that can be trimmed down to improve the bottom line for shareholders and let me get to one more comet. This is from Matthew who called in to give his thoughts about unions? I used to belong to a union and the unions are for the trouble makers to bail them out. If a law enforcement officer is doing his. Job According to policy moral convictions what have you? That person does not have anything to worry about. Run. What do you make of this argument that? She dope people come up with this having no idea every I believe, and I'm a Labor guy. I believe that every worker has writing. And every worker can unionist not unionize. You can pay dues and not pay dues, but the say that we're GONNA. Take the police who are blue collar workers who and work for hourly wages, and then all of a sudden, a teacher postal worker, the people at the pay papermaking plant. They all have a right to bargain. They all have a right to have job security and seek dogs purity. So, what are the police any different? If you want to ban the police from having unions, would you know the government can do that tomorrow? We have no control. And if you don't like the system, but decide if you belong to a union, you're just lazy and you don't. You shouldn't have I think that's wrong and I believe that police officers for in better than anyone else should have a right to due process. They put it all on the line. Their lives they put on being sued civilly criminally designated some Mateen towns that comes with the job, but into say, but you don't have any right to defend yourself and to have a right to due. Due process is wrong. Yeah, I can tell you're you're you're passionate about it? That's Ron Lord Police Union. Labor negotiated former.
"police union" Discussed on 1A
"The subject of policing is once again being hotly debated this week on through line, how police forces developed in the north and the south in the nineteenth century, and expanded their power in the twentieth century through from NPR The podcast where we go back in time to understand the present. States across the US are in their second straight week of protests over the killing of George Floyd by police officer. Many hope to see police reform. They have reached a hurdle though and that's often the police unions to talk about the role of police unions and the power. They hold over reforms. We have Booker Hodges Assistant Commissioner at the Minnesota. Department of Public Safety and let's bring in Rhonda Lord a Police Union, Labor negotiator former police officer and the former president of a statewide police union in Texas Ron Thank you so much for joining us. We'll thanks for having me. Me We're getting a lot of comments from lemon. Give you an example one listener tweets. It seems all other unions are under attack, but police unions only get stronger. What accounts for this and then Richard Tweets? The left is finally realising public unions make it very difficult to remove crappy employees teacher police. If you suck at your job, you got to find another job. These these questions Ron are kind of centered around what makes police unions different. I think, and could you answer that forest? Can we look back to? The history of police used to get the answer. We'll share in. The, always call it Kinda. The duck billed platypus of union. Union, but they don't look like other unions and there's a big reason for that because of the nineteen, Nineteen Boston police strike. It pretty much wiped out a unionization American till really into the nineteen sixties, they just said fraternal so. Ninety. Eighty five ninety percent of all the police in the United States do not belong to the NFL. They have one charter union and it's A. It's a small. So. The police were late getting into the labour firefighters. Had An international union nineteen eighteen asked all the public employee unions construction unions. You know. Some of those are a hundred years old, so please late to the game. They were used many times. strikebreakers picket lines. And so they didn't gravitate, and they tend to be conservative by nature, so their unions look different, but they're still just working people. They're blue collar. Working people who formed groups who have become apt it using the American political system. To increase wages in pay and for job security, so I not ashamed to be a policeman or representing the police, they can only do in increase their strength, or get their message out. It's all a legitimate nature. It's no different than people that are anti gun and pro gun, or you know free speech. Free speech in America everyone has a right to. Speak out on things of of of concern to their members. We got this tweet booker from Tracy reeler and she mentions what Ron just said about the fraternal order of Police Tracy says the police unions name the fraternal order of police is symbolic of the fact that it operates like an old boys club officers who speak up about bad cop behavior ostracized in this culture and I wanted to put this booker in the context of what we heard earlier from ally at the Marshall Project who was saying that oftentimes African. American cops don't want join leadership because they don't want to be part of that culture. Oh yes! I think there's there are some differences between African American officers and white officers regarding EU membership I mean me. the vast majority of my career I was in a union I was a union president. You know so? I? Didn't have some of those issues, but a lot of the other. People I. Know who are other organizations did have issues regarding how they didn't feel that. The union represented them or didn't defend them as strongly as they did. White officers so I. I I'm fully aware that that issue does exist within. Labor unions Ron it sounds like he wanted to respond to that as well well. That issue exists in America so you'd say I'm a seventy two year old white man who grew up in the south. Way I view. The world may be different than a black person. My chew grew up different, but men and women authors have different views about things Hispanic. I have different views or Asian or so. That's an in and out of itself. But you have to say. Policing in America is eighty five percent men. There has been no woman firefighter president that I'm aware of any fire pro union in America ever so so we look at it, and then we say yes, but they appear to be older. White men guess but. They're having democratic elections that black officers in America only about twelve percent of the police, so that's. Maybe nineteen so that's wrong, but. The police unions not hiring anybody. The city hires the city provides them recruitment and seeks cities where even worse off when it comes to female officers, there are less than about twelve percent of the police, which is half the number of Canada Australia and other European countries so. Saying that in a profession is eighty five percent men. And whatever sixty seventy percent white man that white men tend to gravitate up. Yes, but lots of officers don't become involved in the union. Lots of people don't run or don't participate so but win. The contracts are approved. I'm not aware of a single contract in America. That one hundred percent of the officers don't on the agreement. The council votes on the agreement, the Mare sons or the city manager sign it so. You're acting light. There's no democracy there is and and if you think there needs to be changed. Well. You can change it, but. I don't know how to change the dynamics of America that people have different views. On. Caller I WANNA get into change specifically Let me read you this email from Erin who says so. The Police Union prohibits strikes doesn't prohibit protesting. Why aren't honorable police protesting for internal reform? If nationwide police officers went on strike for internal reform, would the union fire the entire police force? My point is where is the collective voice from inside the ranks asking for more of themselves and and I'm I'll take this question to both of you, but let me begin with you, Ron. Because there's no question. I've been I've been a reporter for more than twenty years that when reforms proposed by city councils or by mayors, it is very often. The Police Union leadership that steps up in opposes that reform..
"police union" Discussed on 1A
"I asked minister what to do if with all this news. You, get tired of praying. You get to stop having faith. To shut down today. If there is a god, she's not going anywhere. Because if there is God it learns from us to faith in the midst of prices, listen and subscribe to. It's been a minute from NPR. This is one A.. Headley, we're talking about the power of police unions, and how that strength can sometimes get in the way of reform I wanNA bring a few more voices into this discussion as we turn our attention to Minneapolis, specifically, Brent Williams is a correspondent with Minnesota Public Radio Brent Welcome. Thanks. And Booker. Hodges is the assistant commissioner at the Minnesota Department of Public Safety. It's good to have you booker. Thank you. We. Did get a a new bit of news. The head of the Minneapolis Police Department just told reporters he was withdrawing from contract negotiations with the Police Union. He says he will bring in an outside group to examine the process and identify hurdles to reform. Let's add that to a comment from a former police chief in Minneapolis J. Harto, who said that the Minneapolis Police Union is more powerful at this point than the city's chief and the mayor I wonder whether you agree with that brand. It would appear. That's the case again as chief Harto said and other chiefs before her. The Union wields a lot of power when it comes to win when they're trying to make changes in the department, the culture is very entrenched, and as with the current ahead of the the Union Bob Parole. He has been elected a couple of different times by the members of the police department. Those members have basically put their confidence and trust in Kroll to do the job to protect them from job conditions which they don't favor. And so commissioner broker you work outside of Minneapolis and Saint Paul. What have you noticed in terms of the relationship where you are between the police union end the police. Is it similar to what brand has described in Minneapolis? Think. The relationships in general with the unions by and large have been positive but there is some some room for some additional changes that need to be made in terms of how officers are are disciplined, but by and large, the vast majority of the relationships have been positive. The. Police Officers Federation is the Union that represents police officers in Minneapolis as you mentioned brand, president is Bob Crawl. He has come under fire for a number of things over the past few weeks, including his response to the killing of George. Floyd crow called George Floyd a violent, criminal and referred to those protesting in Minneapolis as terrorists. This is not the first time he's been called out. Out For this kind of behavior Crawley's at twenty nine complaints made against him, including complaints that he was using racial slurs Derek Shelvin. The officer who killed George Floyd had seventeen complaints filed against him. Let's take a listen to crawl himself. This is from twenty seventeen crow was asked about officer complaints against him in this clip was recorded by you brand and your colleague. John Collins for NPR news. I, you show me an officer that has never had a complaint thirty years and I'll show you know officer. That's what we call on the job, a load or a slug. That doesn't do anything. If you if you show me officer that has a lot of investigations. And all of them turned out to be false. You'll find that that officer is and been that officer on the witness stand before when the numbers come in in lawsuits and things like that. And when you're making eight times, the contacts with citizens and you're making twenty one times. He arrests as your counterparts. You're going to get those complaints. The officer that doesn't get complaints. There are exceptions that can do their job and leave everybody happy at the end, but my large in our career. The officer that doesn't get those complaints doesn't get out and investigate any anything, and that's not what we're paying our officers to do. We reach out to Bob, crawl and the police. Officers Federation. We did not back here back from either of them. We should also note the website for the police union was taken down in their phone. Lines at this point are not working commissioner booker. What do you make of this complaint? It means it's the way that Bob Kroll is describing it makes it sound as though complaints are basically useless or meaningless that they don't reflect the actual behavior of an officer. What do you make of that? Well you know, I won't specifically address him for various reasons, but this notion of complaints, so I think when you look at complaints against an officer, you have to look to see if they're all in the same vein right so for example, if an officer is consistently getting use of force complaints. That's something that needs to be addressed, so I think you know when you talk complaints if they're all in the same vein that's indicative of a problem. Meaning excessive force if an officer has repeated complaints about excessive force. Is that what you mean? Yes is so say for example you know officer. A continuously is getting complaints regarding their verbal conduct right so basically. They don't know how to talk to people That's a concern that that would need to be addressed immediately just like a use of force complaints, but if you've got someone who's repeatedly getting use of force, complaints there's something going on there and obviously that would have to be addressed commissioner booker. We spoke earlier with someone from the Marshall Project, talking about the fact that police union is very heavily. Be Priest. Police Union. Leadership is very heavily white males and I wonder. Even, in places where a police force is not majority nonwhite what effect does the lead the the I guess? The background and race of leadership and Police Union have on on police culture. Do you think there's a connection between who's leading the union and the culture of a department? Yes I do I. Think there is a connection for that you look at a lot of research and it shows that in general law enforcement if you are an officer of color, a year in an organization, and which are not represented in leadership, your police organizational stress goes up, and if the leadership does encompass the union leadership, and obviously you know, wh said on the Marshall Project. Officers of color and white officers tend to view stuff differently. Sometimes on issue races happens to be one of those issues so I I do think it does have an effect on organizational culture. Brent. How do you see the relationship between The Police Union and the city leadership especially and the leadership of the police force themselves. How do you see changing recently especially since the killing of George Floyd? Well if the changes is probably been for the for the worse actually, it doesn't seem like there's the. In past incidents, there is at some type of communication that. Open communication between the the union leadership and that there'd be, although they may not have seen eye-to-eye they would at least agree that there needs to be an thorough investigation into something that had just happened and tried to reassure the public that they're going to get to. The bottom of things. speaking of. Bob Kroll and his relationship with past chiefs and mayors. We've talked a bit about that. particularly chief Air Dondo. Back in two thousand seven, when he was lieutenant, he, and for other black police officers sued the city for discrimination and part of their suit alleged that they were being unfairly disciplined. They were being denied promotional opportunities and overtime. Opportunities as well.
"police union" Discussed on 1A
"Realize your research, the scope of the researchers limited, but did you get a sense why a majority non white police force. So often has a white police union leader. Yeah, there's a few reasons. one I mentioned earlier. Is that a number of black officers? I spoke with just have no interest in being part of that kind old boys club. Culture they wanted to keep their heads down there already getting a lot of blame from their own communities for being in the police to begin with, let alone being at the top of police leadership but then there's also this systemic racism ingrained in in in the unions where they. Don't recruit. they don't recruit black officers to be union leadership They're suspicious of black officers. For not being pro law enforcement enough that kind of thing, so it's Kinda from both directions and ends up with the same old story of a white male police union leader. Hager is staff writer at the Marshall Project. Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you. We're getting your responses as well for example, record treats. The problem is that when you hear from the unions? You only hear pro officer talk. You never hear anything controversial. The Floyd killing is easy to rebuke. It's simple. Murder I'd like to hear the head of New York's Police Union talk about the NYPD's history of brutality and one listener asks is the Police Union the only union that Republicans defend vociferously? We'll talk more about how the killing of George Floyd put a spotlight on the Minneapolis Police Department, and it's very outspoken union lear Lieutenant Bob Crow..
"police union" Discussed on The Signal
"Ability systems are..
"police union" Discussed on The Signal
"Could be different..
"police union" Discussed on Planet Money
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"police union" Discussed on Planet Money
"This planet money from NPR. The last few weeks have been exhausting for a lot of people `specially. People in Minneapolis including. Heavier! Maria, just been. Really trying time, even if your neighborhood was not literally inflames, it was just extremely difficult to arrestor to sleep. Is a union organizer in Minneapolis Saint Paul and until recently he was the president of Union Sei, you local twenty six representing thousands of janitors, security officers would cleaners. But lately all he is thinking about all his city is thinking. About are the protests. There were few days nine one one was almost on functional neighborhoods that do not trust them in the Apple Police Department. have begun policing themselves when he went for a meeting in South Minneapolis. He told me that it looked more like a war zone in a movie there were Humvees and soldiers carrying machine guns. So much has happened in the past two weeks, but there is this one thing that really stuck out for heavier started with a letter on Monday so a week after Memorial Day and George Floyd was killed. There was made public a letter by Bob Crow. Who is the president of the Minneapolis Police Federation in that letter, the Police Union president writes that the four officers charged with killing George Floyd were fired without due process, and he is going to fight to get their jobs back. So that was Monday then Tuesday. There was a response that Javier did not expect individual labor unions, and then the MINNESOTA AFL CIO a statement, condemning the killing and specifically calling for the resignation of President of the police. Federation is that a big deal for one union leader to demand that another union leader resigned absolute. Yes, we reached out to the Minneapolis Police Union for their response, but they did not get back to us. This police union by the way is not a part of the Minnesota branch of the AFL CIO which is kind of this umbrella organisation for unions, including the Union that represents a bunch of us here at planet money. Now calling for the resignation of a union boss might sound small, but this was a very big deal. Unions don't usually trash talk other unions. Usually they're all about solidarity, but not this week. These labor leaders accuse the president of the Police Union a failing the movements, and the people have been apples I mean I'm glad that we're finally having a full conversation Omalie. Recife have yeah, remember. He's a former union president himself, he says police unions are just not the same as other unions for one police unions are really powerful they. Are wildly successful at saving the jobs of people whose jobs do not be saved compared to other unions, they have all of these tools to keep their members from getting fired or even disciplined, so in this moment hovers like we have to talk about our police union. What makes them different and how they need to change my personal feeling. Is that the a greater good demands that we? Take this on at the Labor movement speak up, and if it means that the police union does not exist anymore I personally am fine with that. Because at fairly radical thing to say because you're saying I believe in organized labor, but not for this group of worker. And I think that colleagues in the room disagree with me, but I think we need to hit reset..
"police union" Discussed on The Indicator from Planet Money
"Rob Jill Izzo is an economist at the University of Victoria, and he is the CO founder of the racial uprisings lab, which has been gathering data about every single race based protest in the US since one thousand nine hundred ninety s, so of course rob is carefully been watching the nationwide protests of the past week, or so, which was sparked by the killing of George Floyd by Minneapolis police officer I will. will say someone who has studied this area for a large part of my career there ordinary you know we remember the wave of protests after Martin after Michael, Brown, but the extent of the protests that we're seeing right now are easily the largest since nineteen sixty eight in the aftermath of the assassination. Dr King so not unprecedented, but right the biggest wave of protests. We've seen in half a century. These protests have brought a lot of attention to racial economic inequalities, but what can economists also tell us about the event itself that led to the protests the death of George Floyd. Well there's a lot of theories out there about the reasons behind police killings of civilians. And Rob says he and other economists can analyze data that either supports or disproves these theories and one theory. Rob has been gathering data. About is the role of police unions I'm Stacey Van Smith and I'm Cardiff Garcia. Dizzy. Indicator for planet money in most industries unions try to bargain with their employer on behalf of their members. The workers and they tried to bargain for things like better wages or benefits or working conditions, but police forces are not like other industries, which means there are added complications when police unions bargain on behalf of police officers. There are real issues of life and death, and there appears to be a relationship between police unionizing and the number of people who get killed.
"police union" Discussed on Today, Explained
"Most I wonder you know we're police. Unions always sort of more tied to the political right in this country, or did that happen more recently? We have always known that. Order F. O.'s is very much tied to conservative ideology. I mean those two things are just married right, but we've seen particularly I'd say since the early two thousands. We started to see a little bit more. Questioning rising up from the grassroots, the next thing we know is the Obama. Administration steps in, and they come in with the Department of Justice. That is particularly interested in executing police reform, President Obama's promising change. Police departments across the country. Comments come ahead of too soon to be released reports on the shooting of Michael Brown and Ferguson. Missouri today I'm here to announce that the Department of Justice has opened an investigation into whether the Chicago police. Department has engaged in a pattern or practice of violations of the constitution or federal law, and that really draws the ire of these unions to be scrutinized so deeply. And that happens in tandem with the rise of black lives matter. And those forces are just you know gasoline on that fire and the unions really really take what we see. As a hard right turn at roughly the same amount of time everything else. That's ever happened to this country. This is Barack Obama's fault. Absolutely I mean Barack. In that Tan suit really put it over the edge. Fair? Like real men wear below. What did this shift to the right for police unions look like I mean during the Obama Years I wasn't sort of a shift to donald trump, but was it. Was it a shift to Republican candidates at a local level at a state level at least during the initial Obama years. It was just voicing their discontent. Really. Really loud boisterous levels look. President Barack Obama has been a one man wrecking crew as relates to safe communities. He's declared war on the police dismantled effective law enforcement with this twenty-first-century task force of emphasizing de-escalation. He's been a criminal perpetrators, dream and a nightmare for the American police officer. This is also happening at the time of the explosion of social media right? It might not be that necessarily that these views have changed so much. It's just that we're able to hear them. Talk to each other in ways that we never have before and what we've seen most recently as there was an organization out of Philadelphia, called the plain view project and what they did is they scraped the data from many of these social media posts from officers, and they were able to present some of these conversations. Officers are having with one another that shows you know images of a big rig. Rig driving through protesters in Ferguson and the front is bloodied, and it has superimposed images of like you know body parts of protesters and mean that says just rope through Ferguson didn't see a problem there. Check out these social media posts. It's a good day for a chokehold or hope that this piece of s is dealt with by Street, justice or just plain Karma quickly hopefully by police gunfire. Or ethnic Muslim well, you can read it. How much power these unions have over! Actual Day to day politics of a given city or state I mean what influence do they have over a city's budget or state's budget for example? It's sort of the way that the contract negotiations work. Ended up having a day-to-day influence on everything that we in our communities touch a have told some friends of mine just recently that the most influential person in your city you most likely don't know the name of and that's the union had. In your particular city, and that's because police. Often Times are driving the entire city budget discussion the entire budget, not the police budget, but the entire budget, the police makeup, the single biggest line item on the budget of so many of these municipalities for example in Los Angeles. you see out of a ten billion dollar budget. The police represent say a little over three billion dollars of that particular budget, and the mayor is still proposing increases of seven percent to that particular budget, and it's important to realize that this is happening in the context of a cove economy right where the city of Los Angeles is proposing. Major furloughs to most of its other city employees will refusing to touch the budget of not only refusing to touch. It is in terms of cutting it, but as saying that these seven percent raises that the officers are due is sacred. We cannot touch those we see that also in New York where the city budget is going to have to cut educational expenses by three percents whereas the New York police. Department budget is going to see a head of point. Three percents right I mean. The sort of state of what we saw from healthcare workers in city hospitals comes to mind these people wearing literal garbage bags to protect themselves from covid. And then you see these cops coming out now this week and last week in New York with like World War three style. You know military gear, and you're just like wear whereas all the money going. I wonder. Is there like a city that's taken on police budgets and one in recent years. We have one sort of tiny glimmer of hope, and that's coming out of Austin Texas. Austin a few years back became what we think to be. The first city to convince City Council to reject a union contract, and that happened through grassroots efforts in which particularly black advocates had come to the fore. They attended every city council meeting that they could in which this was going to be addressed to make sure that the city council knew that the community wanted real reform. And they finally convinced their city councillors, but there are enough people watching and who were willing to take them to task at the ballot box. If they didn't actually include more reform and they one, there's a grassroots effort called campaign zero that's collecting and coating a lot of these police contracts so that people in various communities can go back and say hey, this is what we want. We know this is what your contract includes and this is unacceptable to us as a community. Strangely I've received more reader mail on this story than almost any. I've written in the two decades. I've been a reporter and I think that that's because. Police contracts are a tangible way to be able to sort of channel this energy about systemic racism into concrete action, so if somebody in a community were to ask me, what would you do? One of the things that's obvious is these police contracts are still public record, so anybody can log online in most municipalities and get a copy you can see when those contracts expire, and you can look at the major provisions and see like Outta they account for discipline. How are they paid? Do they get to choose their own assignments? which has been a major issue in Minnesota for example? I think the average citizen is able to sort of decipher. What's reasonable?.
"police union" Discussed on Capt. Hunter's Podcast
"Demand. What facts founder investigations and how we would apply that to look previously In prior administrations are being sieving number of cases have been brought. They were largely resolved fairly quietly with private seven grits between the United States and the jurisdiction. There was some some famous consent decrees. La was one And some others. But most of the cases were private agreements and there was a it was a relationship that that existed between the federal government and local jurisdiction. But we begin to understand that if reform was really going to take if there was GONNA be the political goal will to carry through a very difficult and complicated project that there needed to community support and that the community needed to know what's is going on and it was essential that the community understand. What You based upon our you know factual investigation which was very thorough. We we spent thousands and thousands of lawyer hours thousands of hours of a police consultant time. 'cause I can easiness Gatien so people fat understand what we found factually and understand what we thought that the remedy would be applied. Long what we thought the remedy would be. And we issued these findings reports arch which were quite detailed and I think one of the most important things we did was those reports. Because they they documented they gave chronicle if if you look across this country of what are the common themes that are happening in departments everywhere and we found that there was in every jurisdiction it was different. There were different things happening in different ways that manifest itself but in almost every jurisdiction we found amount that there was a problem of Lack of trust by the community particularly communities most likely to be policed ending the police department. There were Antiquated views about use of force. And then we force should be used. didn't meet the standards of the Fourth Amendment And that in most or all jurisdictions there was a reason to be concerned about their relationship action should between police and communities of color and whether there was bias that hidden and become part on policing process and while it's important to understand the difference in each of these jurisdictions it's also important to pull back the lands and see that this is not a probably unique to one city or one place one location Asian problem national magnitude the. Let's get back to union contracts in trying to change his right we. We've joined the conversation intersection so far. It's and that that consent decree what you just mentioned was was certainly outstanding and I just wonder why this is so pervasive but one of the one of the problems is with changing changing these different cultures. As you mentioned we need to have community support report but we also need police union support Police officers support which we get an individually as officers come to you but but These union contracts are woods in many ways standing in the way now for Reuters or for this article that you were mentioned in you gave A little bit of the history. Can you give a little bit of the history about how the unit which I thought was fascinating but how the unions Were stopped getting money. Money as incentives could the city's crying poor to give money so they gave power over discipline away. The cities gave the power discipline. Away can explain swing limit about that. Yeah I know you know. In the in the collective bargaining process it varies a bit from state because he's a public sector they're not governed by the the federal law that are governed by state laws. you bargain about the terms and conditions and employment And typically that means instincts like You know there's a difference between what what's bargain abol. And what is a man is as a management right and typically terms conditions and climate. Are things like what are the the hours that you're working You know how much money you're going to get paid. What is overtime quite? What's the schedule for vacations? And you know let's seniority and all that sort of stuff And then there are a series of things which are typically considered to be management rights as the kinds of things that you know go to the the establishment of priorities of the organization and You know operating the The policy policy side of the the of the Organization and discipline is one of those things that fall. Somewhere new where AH protection of the due process rights. Police officers critically important. You know you don't have any institution injustices Chutian. We are the people who work of institution or treated unfairly. I mean that kind of equitable treatment is critically important. But you also need to have a you know it's a paramilitary organization and we need to have the ability of the leaders organization to impose the kind of discipline necessary to ensure that the institution is functioning and what you saw The financial crisis beginning in the nineteen really the nineteen eighties With the recession or during the time of Jimmy Carter you sort of recession Russian in Cities and towns across the country and continued later in the recession late. Nineteen Ninety s and again Really it was those two those two time periods. You saw both a explosion of organizing Sousse officers. There's some apartments four time but there was there was an increasing organizing for during during some of those time periods and you saw the growth of the power of a police unions And they ability for pushing to change the laws about that. They could bargain and the introduction of law enforcement bills of rights and then at the bargaining arguing that you saw cities that were unable to but money on the table. They were unable to say. We'll give you you know you haven't gone raise in your wages for her. You know five years or what have you. But we can't put money on the table but we'll give you all these other non-economic protections and once they get into the contract. It's almost impossible to get them out. And so you end up with these very elaborate very complicated Kinds of disciplined systems that are designed to prevent Any discipline from being imposed they create They're not only very complex but take a long time And they've got lots of definitely ended are built into them that if they are You know what kind of procedural default that doesn't really affect but the findings of the kind of getting to the truth or what's an appropriate response to the truth of the matter but You know some sort of technical. Somebody didn't sign a form. Everybody box and somebody missed the deadline by day. you you ended up being Being able to impose discipline and so you know that is part of what happened in the power of the unions to control will the Way.