20 Episode results for "Pillsbury"
Pillsbury in Space
"To ensure the safety of prepackaged foods for he is that shave our future. What if the problems NASA faced when planning its first the enlisted Pillsbury to tackle the problem. The food manufacturing company quickly hiring process from raw materials to the processing environment and onto did in Pillsbury's own factories for two decades the US government IOS initial principles developed to protect astronaut food when we first journeyed.
Ensuring Food Safety
"To ensure the safety of prepackaged foods for space nasa partnered with the pillsbury company to create a new approach to to quality control. This is innovation now bringing you stories behind the ideas that shape our future. What if the problems nasa faced when planning its first. I crewed space. Missions was how to ensure that the food astronauts took with them was free of microbes that could make astronauts sick the agency the enlisted pillsbury to tackle the problem. The food manufacturing company quickly discovered that existing quality control methods were not up to the task so pillsbury developed a system for taking control of the entire manufacturing process from raw materials to the processing environment and onto onto distribution. The hazard analysis and critical control point system was in place in time for the first moon missions. The process was soon implemented did in pillsbury's own factories for two decades the u._s. Government has required that meat poultry seafood and juice producers use these same procedures and today's new regulations are still based on those initial principles developed to protect astronaut food when we first journeyed it into space for innovation now. I'm jennifer pulley. Innovation now is produced by the national institute of aerospace through collaboration with nasa.
"To ensure the safety of prepackaged foods for space NASA partnered with the PILLSBURY company to create a new approach to a quality control. This is innovation now bringing you stories behind the ideas that shape our future. What if the problems NASA faced. When planning its first I crewed. Space missions was how to ensure that the food astronauts took with them was free of microbes. That could make astronauts sick. The agency the enlisted Pillsbury to tackle the problem. The food manufacturing company quickly discovered that existing quality control methods. Were not up to the task. So pillsbury developed a system for taking control of the entire manufacturing process from raw materials to the processing environment and onto onto distribution the hazard analysis and critical control. Point system was in place in time for the first Moon missions. The process was soon implemented did in Pillsbury's factories for two decades the US government has required that meat poultry seafood and juice producers. Use these same procedures and today's new regulations are still based on those initial principles developed to protect astronaut food when we first journeyed it into space for innovation now I'm Jennifer. pulley innovation now is produced by the National Institute of Aerospace. Through collaboration with NASA.
A new chinese government podcast
"The latest from New Center at News Dot net the Chinese press agencies in one report that the government in the que- shoe province. The south west of the country has launched a podcast to raise people's awareness of the protection of endangered species recent given nor how to download it focused quantifications normally tears. PODCAST has had guest hosts for the last wild on December. Thirty first sky. Pillsbury talked about perfecting your podcast. Pr The our page and today's episode features me talking about spot speakers French newspaper. Liberal Garcia is launching three podcasts. This month two of which will only only be available to subscribers. We link to an article with more details and French podcast. Host pod must gives its podcast predictions for twenty see twenty one now really among their predictions free hosting for everyone podcast today given the new. CCPA regulations you might enjoy terms and conditions apply which discusses many Subjects Relevance to online data collection and privacy and the Beagle presents the last post our new daily satirical news news fantasy podcast hosted by an fraser off. The bugle launched yesterday and this more in our newsletter cut pot news dot net.
An Interview with Inside Podcasting Host Skye Pillsbury
"<music> hey guys welcome to the first episode of inside podcasting the show where podcasters get a chance to talk about their craft this week. We're going to do something a little bit different. Kim lyons who is the managing editor here at inside. Dot com is going to interview me about what it was like to make this show. I think that's all you need to know so enjoy so sky. You've been working on this inside. Podcasting podcast for a long longtime feels like you're finally got the episodes of wrapped interviews you're done. Everything's polish ready to launch these episodes into the world. How are you feeling about everything you defy. You excited to see the reaction kind of how you feel in right. Now i am i it feels. I have to admit a little surreal. I i think when i very first had the idea to do this podcast. It felt very theoretical. You know i mentioned it to someone that we work with us and he mentioned it to jason. Calcutta's who's our boss and within twenty four hours of mentioning it it was a real thing it yeah but even at that point. It didn't quite feel like it was actually going to happen so it feels at this stage when we recorded all the episodes and we're still in production mode but it feels a little crazy i can't. I still can't quite believe that. It's going to happen yeah well. I think once you get jason involved. It goes from zero to one hundred pretty quickly like she wants he wants. He's on it. It's going to happen so he's made a surprise me yeah. He made a decision and execute do it but let's talk a little bit about how inside podcasting the podcast came about so you had this idea <hes> you wanted to interview podcast host about podcasting like so were you envisioning. Were the conversations were going to be like because having listened to them <hes> everyone everyone's a different. There's not one to sort of uniform <hes> interview. It just feels like everyone's got a really distinct personality. They <music> obviously bring different things to the table. Tell me a little bit about kind of how a team together how the idea came together and what you are envisioning before you get started with this was going to be yeah. Well i agree with you. Every episode feels really different and in a way they all feel like the all like a completely different baby that we're producing reducing. Everyone is sort of every episode. Is that way but that's that's what i was hoping for. So i'm so glad to hear you say that because i really wanted it to feel all like a a range of different voices <hes> i eat a when i when i made i made my my dream list of who we he would bring on the show and you know that was what i did right after the twenty four hours in which inside yes you can go ahead and do this. I made this list and and i started reaching out to people and i think it says something about this industry that almost everyone i reached out to said yes and the people who didn't say as us had good reasons for it and one of those <hes> one of the people the groups of people from one of those podcasts actually come back to me now and is interested in moving moving forward but everyone was really open to it and wanted to be taken along on this ride. They knew i was new and so but that also was scary because you know once you've booked madeline baron from in the dark like you can't really go back back on it. There's no turning back yeah. There was actually a moment <hes> after i had booked a few of the hosts and i was was thinking about this earlier today where i was with my husband and we were on we were it was spring break. We'd gone somewhere for the weekend with our kids and i was reading this book by terry gross which is all about how to interview people yeah and it and it's also just a transcript of a lot of our interviews i was reading that as part of like my nerdy homework and trying to figure <hes> how to do a good interview and there was one moment when i just looked over at dawn my husband and i said i i literally had tears in my eyes and i said i'm. I'm not sure i can do this like i don't know i want to be able to do it but it's such a high art to know how to bring people out of their shell and i you just had this moment of i mean really it's fear and i hope and i would think that a lot of podcasters can probably relate to that when you decide to do it it sounds sounds exciting but then when you're actually on the eve of you sitting down in front of a microphone and talking to another person who you've never met in my case. They were all oh remote except for jason. It feels scary. Yes you'll scale. How did how did you prep for those. I mean you feeling maybe a little bit intimidated or a little bit weary. I mean obviously everyone's on board and then they're interested in doing the interview so it's certainly to chase people down bright but prepare for the interviews where there's was there something that you did to kind of get comfortable. I knew whenever i do like i try and get familiar with the person but not overprepared because you still wanted to sell the conversation right so how did you how did you get ready other than you know having almost meltdown in sounds like when on spring break but how did four for the conversations you know it's funny. You should say that because i have thought to myself that i think i over prepared a little bet. I that was in in this while i was doing doing this. That was the one thing that i felt like i could control. It was like okay. I can't control necessarily what happens in the interview but i can control how prepared i am. No i read or you think can control it right right exactly and so i just was up to my knees and youtube videos and of course listening to their podcast. That's a necessary thing <hes> which i wanted to do anyway of course <hes> if i hadn't listened to every episode but you know i so i went in and then i would write down my questions <hes> which even though i often you you know especially towards the end. I was always looking at my questions. That felt like a security blanket. I mean i will say that a lot of the people that i've talked to even people that that i interviewed on this podcast said you know they write down their questions. I think jesse hempel said she writes down her questions because that helps her thinks through what she's going to ask but she never looked at them during the interview right. I probably not quite at that stage where i don't look at them at all but <hes> i did get comfortable with it more comfortable with it towards the end <hes> you a you know. Is this fine line. Where you want to be prepared but you don't wanna feel rehearsed and so you want to be surprises in the discussions you didn't know oh and that's the whole point and i also think that there there's a different dynamic when you go into an interview and you're looking at your questions versus going into interview and just knowing trusting your own curiousity and i think i might be stealing that those words directly from something that jesse said to me <hes> trusting your own instinct. You are genuinely interested in this person if you're not interested in them. Don't interview them right. Why why are you interviewing. I am so i definitely only brought people onto the podcasts who i knew i would be excited to talk to anyway <hes> and hopefully that comes through hopefully no now. I think that it does. I think it does for sure. Talk a little bit about you know this all came about because you've been writing the inside podcasting new center for a while now and you've built up an audience the ends and you have a really nice rapport with readers so do you think that it that gave you a sense of what this was going to be like or was it completely like not even even close to helping you prepare for actually doing the podcasting like you can only like absorbed so much from having right you have to actually sometimes do things so how much of writing the podcasting newsletter and having a handle on this podcasters go through and this is what passing like like how much of that helps you prepared you feel like maybe it was even just a sliver of league of what it's really like to do pocket yeah. That is a really good question and the answer for me. Is that that it didn't help that much. Having written about podcast did not help. It's not at all. It's not the same at all it of of course there were certain things that i knew i wanted to do because i had read articles <hes> and attended events to learn things like i think we're gonna make audio grams. We haven't even made at this point yet but i think we're gonna make those episodes and that's something i learned about because i was writing about them or you know things like that but it's so theoretical <hes> and actually doing it. I mean i made so many mistakes. Six which i'm hoping the listeners enjoy those mistakes like for me. Part of this podcast is bringing the listeners along on on this journey where i was not a brand new podcast or just because writing i write about it does not mean i know how to do. It and i did things like i interrupted people. I mean i made all these rookie rookie mistakes. I interrupted people. I asked my questions were way too long. Especially my very first episode <hes> i i tried really hard to fix it after that <hes> actually recorded a bunch of questions so that hopefully it won't drive the listeners to crazy to hear that but i also i also just wasn't wasn't my it learning how to find your voice is something you cannot do by writing about podcasts and one thing i did in that first episode that i recorded with madeline baron of in the dark was i think that i was trying you know consciously or or not ought to sound like terry gross although or you're all right good to aspired lift that's right and you know. I think that you can hear that. Listeners will hopefully get a kick out of hearing me. Try to sound like are because that you can hear that sky but honestly. I feel like you're selling yourself short. You don't really nice job in a really short time of getting up to speed and you can talon jalan interviews that you're really interested in the gas and when your guest on a podcast you can also tell you know when the host is interested. It makes a difference. I think the interviews are really interesting and fun to listen to but what i want to know from you. As are you going to feel like you're a podcast or like. You've done all this work. You realize how much goes into it. What's going to be kind of your measure of success for this when he used to be able to say you know. I'm a podcast because i feel like you still not quite there. You still feel like you're you're a rookie but i feel like yeah a lot of experience donovan both now. Oh my gosh. That's great to hear <hes> i you're right. I'm not i don't i can't we're that mantle yet. <hes> i do still feel. I have a little bit of imposter syndrome <hes> but i i think that once it's out there and and people have heard it and hopefully people have gotten something out of it. You know once aside made a difference to one person tweet that me nat will feel you know like oh. Maybe i'm maybe i i. Maybe i am this. Maybe i can say that. I'm actually doing this but i don't think i'm going to feel that way until it's out in in the world so no. I am so excited for that to happen. That's gonna feel huge so this is great. I can't wait to hear the episodes in their finished version into here. How to the reception option is. I'm really excited for. This has been a long and winding road but it's finally happening and i can't wait to hear them. Yeah i already and to have had the mountain world me too. I'm so so looking forward to that and again. I hope people get something from them. That's useful and and thanks to you can for all your help and michael. Who's our producer and and the whole team who of course i'll be talking about out the season. I'm really proud to <hes> to work with. Everyone can't wait to get the episodes out there. Thank you so much for listening the first episode of inside podcasting. I hope you enjoyed. It and i hope that you listen next week. I'll be talking to ian chill log. He's the host of everything is alive one of the most original and entertaining podcasts in my view but if you don't listen to his show already don't worry we're going to play a clip from the podcast so that you get a sense of it is hilarious. He is smart. He had really insightful thing to say about the industry so i hope you tune in. If you have feedback on this show oh please email me at skied dot com or find me on twitter at skype pillsbury. Of course you can also leave review on apple podcasts and if you'd like to support the work we're doing it inside. Podcasting you can tell a friend about this show and also consider subscribing to our free email newsletter of the same name you you can find it at inside dot com for its lash. Podcasting inside podcasting is produced and hosted by me skype pillsbury with massive production production help from michael surrogate circuitry media charles quickly is our sound engineer. Rachel loden is a researcher kim lyons his advice and support has been valuable bowl in the making of this show is the managing editor anti dot com and special thanks to inside owner jason canas for green-lighting this project and also to my family family who put up with me for six months making the show and acting like basically a craze maniac the entire time finally and most importantly thanks to all of view for listening. It means so much to all of us.
Patience & Deception
"Do you believe that the Chinese government steals technology from? US? Companies, congressman? I. Think it's well documented that the Chinese government steals technology from American companies. Thank you. China, well, of course, all four tech Titan said the same thing at the hearing yesterday. Oh. Wait a minute. What's that the control redocking? No. They mostly chicken downside. I Not Shane anything. They haven't stolen from me not that I know of specifically like the guy in exactly what he stole I. Don't ask me that he didn't recognize the voice there mark Zuckerberg of facebook, but I really appreciate him saying out loud. What is obviously true and you're going out of your way to To be disingenuous. If you don't say that Yeah I. Think it's well known that. Yeah. China's stealing constantly which gets to this on I. Hope this doesn't end up being to keep it short. For people who are bored by Super Wonky geopolitical stuff, but I thought this was really interesting. Is I history I like Joe Geopolitics and I definitely think the battle with China I don't think I know, and so does everybody else who's paying attention the battle between the United States and China is coming century. Racist. To me signed stupid idiots, but for decades now. President Nixon and Henry Kissinger have gotten credit for quote opening China. And the idea was that China was a closed off society. Was You know? The biggest country on earth and and they're going to go one way or the other of eventually, they're going to get their act together and we'd rather have him in our sphere than the Soviet Union's at the time. Bill Bridges Not Walls Jack and and only Nixon could go to China is that that that phrase means what it means because Nixon made his bones as anti-communist. So nobody was worried that he was like soft on communism or something like that by going over to meet now I but the idea was that We would would open up China and they would. They would get a little taste of of of buying goods capitalism and having cool cars and air conditioners and refrigerators, and all that sort of stuff and. And just opened up their society and become more or less like us. That was that was the hope for. Those years was that kind of the playbook they ran with Russia to way certain degree of success. Am I wrong in that? No I, it was similar the glasnost and was the Perestroika and all the softening the opening at center with Reagan. But. Lee Reagan could go to Gorbachev. But so Pompeo gave his speech the other day at the Nixon. Library. And caught some people's attention that he used the phrase that he's he said, and that may have been a good idea. He didn't say it was a good idea. He said it may have been a good idea as the think tank crowd is changing their opinion on this whole idea of nixing opening China and that not only was it a bad idea. But we got played and there's a book called the hundred year marathon China's secret strategy to replace. America's a global superpower written by a man called Michael Pillsbury. What he was talking about because he was in the administration going way back to the sixties and on through the seventies and the eighties in the nineties. But he was involved in all these talks and trying to set it up between China and Nixon and everybody else, and he says, the documentation is now out available that shows that. Nixon didn't open China. Mao made the decision that pulling the United States in close to them was a good plan to try to grow off the strength of the United States so that they could someday replace us right. It was. It was it was very doing not our doing. It wasn't some sq brilliant chess move manipulating. We drew them at no they. They drew us in who boy is. The is the belief of Pillsbury who was involved in the talks of the time. I'll read a little bit from this this piece on it because it's pretty interesting. Pillsbury served as an intelligent asset, Blah. Blah. Blah. Looking back. It's painful that I was so gullible pillsbury rights across more than four decades. Senior American facials gambled that the US assistance would help transform China into a responsible international stakeholder or even a representative democracy that bet never paid off. Pillsbury wanted to understand how American policy making had gone. So wrong and the hundred year marathon is a product of self critical reexamination that he was involved with. To begin with it isn't really true that Nixon and Kissinger opened the door to China Mao. Let them in Pillsbury goes so far as to argue that history of normalized Sino. American relations started off with a myth and he was the guy that made this happen. He's been getting the credit for decades this power for helping put this together and he saying I was wrong. I got played while. It's not just a critique from the outside. This is a guy who's on the inside man. I thought the argument was like we say in golf, not every good putt goes in. It was a good idea was a solid idea at what worked if XI JINPING HAD ARISEN WITH? No, it was played. I'll be danged. Yeah. Pillsbury sites, five written works that rely on archive evidence to strongly dispute Kissinger's account of Chinese strategy including his claim that there was real. Hope for long-term Sino American cooperation. These critics propose an alternative theory namely that China's strategy successfully manipulated not only kissing your but also later American leaders. mistranslations translations played a role in America's misbegotten strategy to according to Pillsbury at one point during their meetings. The Foreign Minister of China told Kissinger's interpreter that America is the bar. This was relayed to Kissinger as America is the leader, a seemingly innocuous remark bills. Berry. Says, it turns out that it means Bob, means tyrant, and we we went with they've you're the leader and you know we're happy to be involved with him. declared. We're a tyrant. Oh my gosh. Pillsbury wonders if the history of US Chinese Chinese relations would have been different. Had Kissinger understood the way China's top leaders really saw America as a Nazi style tyranny and not a true ally partner. We will never know, of course, this is the part I really liked the title of the book. Makes, clear. Pillsbury included that the CCP is running one hundred year marathon to supplant America as the world's top power. We've heard that recently from the secretary, of state, and from the FBI. Director. Well end from Xi Jinping. And we'll, yes, the CCP's strategy is based on patients and deception as the henchman should not be confronted from a position of relative weakness, the henchman being us the united. States, you don't want to confront us when you're weak. Mao where Mao was at the time in new that FRY over time? The challenger, this is going back to. Ancient beliefs in China and things that they've learned over centuries of diplomacy in dealing with various situations the men should not be confronted from a position of relative weakness. Over time, the Challenger can become stronger by stealing from the henchman. Would they do that? This Razzaq Tim Cook this map this reflected in the strategy to kill with a borrowed sword. Wow. This is what China has been up to since nineteen seventy when they first met with Nixon, I was just GonNa say chairman, mouse thinking. We can't finance world domination. WHO's got. The money. The Great Satan's got the money will get it from them and that you say that's an ancient Chinese philosophy. Yeah. Yeah, and it's it's a through and through in their culture. They learned it from the Warring States period that gets into a complicated thing. But this is the this is their belief about the way the world works. Yeah. Say That stuff before the borrowed sword about you can't confront the hegemony. Borrowed Sword. For that. I. Want to remember is this EP strategies based on patients and deception? The henchman should not be confronted from a position of relative weakness over time, the challenger can become stronger by stealing from the hedge men. This is reflected in an ancient strategy to kill the borrowed sword while loss according to Pillsbury, the Chinese used the Americans just as they had used the Soviets extracting. Extracting military and economic assistance from one major rival and they in the name of countering the other pillsbury recounts all the ways. America. Built up the Chinese state, a staggering transfer of economic scientific and military how that is difficult to justify now or yeah. Keep it coming. We'll be your body just to keep it coming and I said and I think like you said this is Is All, the more powerful coming from the guy that was in charge. He came up with this plan. I, mean he's got every reason to hide this. So Harry is saying my life's work was a screw up. Oh, with completely wrong and I'm embarrassed but va they they drew us in. Yeah. It's. You know if you think you're picking up a hot neuner hot chick when. When they are? Actually, it's the other way around I. Mean they're picking you up for for evil intentions right to give you a rookie and take your wallet or whatever right Do we have time that is absolutely freaking fascinating? That's a geopolitical blockbuster is it's one of the biggest things that has happened in the history of the planet that is not an exaggeration clearly, no. Don't trust China especially because we don't know how this ends I mean if it ends with mushroom clouds than it's absolutely the biggest thing that's ever happened or just. China. Winning the war of everything economics, military strength everything in the world becomes more like China and less like the United States nobody has freedom anywhere in the world. It's the. It's the totalitarian state dominating the world for centuries to come the subjugation of billions of people for centuries. Yeah, I'd say that's. That's pretty switches absolutely on the table, and if you don't think it is your child. So listen we made a couple of references to Tim, Cook and Mark Zuckerberg, and and China, and the rest of it. If you're a little mystified by that, you're just tuning in or you didn't follow the news yesterday will explain what happened at the Big Tech Titans hearing on Capitol. Hill and a friend of mine tech. Texted me with a with an a man. To what we've just been talking about, that will get your attention. It's It's amazing. Cool. So that and much more to come some pretty important news what colleges are planning do in the fall more in just greediest media lying all sorts of stuff. So hang around don't go away. The. Armstrong and getty show by that. was. We, take you now to the all's of Congress where the heads of apple and Google and facebook and Amazon are being grilled by our beloved leaders a question for all four. Yes, or no answer? Do you believe that the Chinese government steals technology from us? COMPANIES START WITH MR COOKE? Specific cases where we have been stolen from. By the government. So you don't believe that the Chinese government stealing technology. From us, companies, are you saying not from yours? I'm saying I I know of no case hours where it a card, which is I can only speak to firsthand knowledge Mr. Hi, you believe that the Chinese government steals technology from United States companies, congressman I have no firsthand knowledge of any. Information stolen from Google. Is there's Congressman I. Think it's well documented that the Chinese government steals technology from. American. Companies. Thank you. Sir Basil's. On Mississippi. Two Mississippi. Three on mute. Mute. I'm sorry, I've seen I have heard many reports of that and I? I. Haven't seen it personally, but I've heard many reports of it. All the different products that Amazon carries you haven't seen that. I loved how number one basis obviously had to tailor his answer. In the wake of Zuckerberg straightforwardness. and. And I also love how when finally somebody said Senator, it's well documented that Chinese. Government steals technology from American companies, the the Guy Questioning said, thank you with just the delightful sprinkle sarcasm. So I got this note from a friend of mine. WHO's really involved in technological field. Chinese. Theft of technology is happening in the wide open. When we unveiled our invention at the consumer electronics show in Las Vegas in two thousand thirteen. The first day was called China Day. Chinese. Nationals would zip through the entire show taking pictures and video and stealing as much information as they could as that, and they were on planes that night heading back to China. Everybody there knew. Knew about it and talked about it and I mean about one hundred thousand Chinese. Nationals, we were warned to protect our stuff as much as possible. We were offered first class trips to China so they can do our manufacturing we declined. So the idea that that that Tim Cook and Sundar, Pichai would not answer the question said answer different question that hadn't been asked. Just, I. Mean it is so nakedly kowtowing to the communist Chinese and it's clear why they billions of business there, and if they don't Kowtow to the oppressors of a billion people that runners of concentration camps, the lose profit at some point, patriotism is going to have to win out or or just humanity. I. Mean, it is inhumane to prop up the Chinese communist government. They're actually an evil. On human level. What you're doing is is disgusting and I ll I'm a big apple fan. I love your products I do. But you just. George will said this. About conservatism, Love them hate them disagree with them or whatever. But you can't dispute this. One of the hallmarks of conservatism is you have to be honest and recognize what is. And deal with it, you can't live in a fantasy land of rhetoric. In. As much as I. Love Apple, I am forced to recognize they do a hell of a lot of business with one of the most evil regimes that has ever existed on planet earth. Well, lower your ideals of freedom. If you WANNA suck on the warranty of China towards never spoken hate to hammer this too much but So the the Department of Justice indicted wall way in two, thousand nineteen, and now some of the emails in the facts are out and I won't get into all this, but it's really interesting. Eight steps wall way took to steal. from t mobile and covered up, and it's it's really something the pressure that China put on. While Way, U. S. Wall. Way Engineers to send back proprietary information to take pictures of the latest thing in sent back to. China. and the emails are just amazing. It's just a four on. Government in bed with wall way effort to steal our best stuff midia to send that to. Tim. Cook. because. He's missed that he didn't eat and catch that story. I hope that for a guy like Tim Cook or a lot of companies that there. There were there working behind the scenes quietly to figure out how to get untangled and it's just a situation where look I'm running a company, we have all these shareholders were billy were the most valuable company in the world at various times I can't just all of a sudden announced here in a congressional hearing. Say something that's going to cause tremendous disruption. Yeah. It's entirely possible and look. Like Tim. Cook, I. Am a child you child. I'm naive, CETERA. He would say, Hey. I'm dumb. Looking for ways to disentangle for decades, the United States government was encouraging us to engage in trade with China. This is not as simple as spouting off on talk radio, and you know what? It's a decent enough point few. Simplest boating on help radio. No. Kidding. At the same time though I, think it's important for a those of us who care about human rights and the rest of it to keep spouting. Oh, and your needs to be exerted, keep pushing them. In case they're not working behind the scenes to disentangle from having products made by slave labor. Yeah. Yeah. So Hey, a complete transition. A came across this in Politico Jack Shafer's their senior senior media writer A piece I is yesterday. The media's biggest favor to Biden was to ignore him. And and. Somewhat forgotten truths about Old Joe? Biden. Okay. Cool. I want to hear this. Is. His. Third run and he's had to disastrous runs is Moka sexwale one, he stayed in the basement. Strong. Getty. down. Forty two new study people over six feet. Tall are more likely to get the coronavirus. That's a relief said every man on tinder who's been lying about his height? What we hear. The gals like Lanky Fella. So they lie about their height I, find it disgusting. But men don't care about women's height at all. Really, no. No. Now, I'm very rare exception. The probably more You know not to be painful, but probably more care more about weight than women do about a man's wait. I'm guessing again within reason. Sure. The media's biggest favor to Biden was to ignore them writes, Jack, shafer politico senior media writer. I don't know much about Jack Shafer. I don't recall his You know. Know, which way swings or anything like that. But. There's a good reason why Democrats shot Joe Biden out nineteen, Eighty, eight and two, thousand eight when he ran for. President. That something isn't it? He ran twice twenty years apart. And, the second one was twelve years ago. Anyway. He ran two, thousand, eight when Obama Room Yeah. Yeah, I saw shot of him on stage. Debate, and then he dropped out like right after I were. I, mean, because he had a dismal finish, their he, I'm pretty sure it was one who got one percent I one eight when he's when he's running out there every day giving speeches and everything like that. He's done very very poorly, it's murdered, which is why I I was arguing quite strenuously turns out. I was wrong, there's no way he's going. going. To be the nominee, he's terrible at running for president ever going above one percent, right ever. Right, and now he might be president. That's really quite amazing. So there's good reason why they showed him out and he had the good sense to sit out the two thousand, sixteen contest writes Jack Shafer, and politico. He rambles he plagiarize us, he flip flops over his long career in Washington he has become. Become the human embodiment of the political gaffe. The press is documented Biden's limitation in such detail that if the presidency was a regular occupation and Joe's press clips were job references, his recruiter would dump his application in waste can without even bothering to send him an insincere note wishing him luck elsewhere. But instead of hammering him and pouring vinegar on his wounds, the press has bestowed quote strange new respect status. Status upon Biden strange new respect being the clever trope Tom Bethell invented to describe the press corps sudden shift from negative to positive coverage of a politician that happens often happened to both Clintons to Obama even at trump with. Biden. Oh, there's a twist in this case, positive coverage. The kind of wet kiss treatment that helps dented and flawed candidate slide right into the White House consists primarily of ignoring him. which I thought was a good point. This isn't a suggests that campaign reporters blew off the assignment. Politico's been trekking your explored middle-class. Joe's family fortunes, everybody reprised his plagiarism can't scandal. The politically convenient revision of his get tough criminal justice policies got narrowing in the press chased the sexual assault allegations levelled against him. I'd forgotten about that. But especially in the early going news busy losing both Iowa and New Hampshire something, a presidential candidate is not supposed to do the coverage seen more about writing off his candidacy than obliterating it. It's it's funny. Having read this piece, the longest shortest it is. Nobody. Really thought it was worth covering Biden. Come. Why would you finished fourth in Iowa this time around right? Having never done well, ever before he finished fourth in Iowa. New Hampshire? Because I looked this up the other day, then got beat by thirty points by Bernie in Nevada. Why would you cover his campaign? Any more than you would have covered? Who else was down there toward the bottom? You know that was running a Michele. Bachmann? And that's the The Republican. Now, who is the the crazy woman, Marianne. Williams Marianne Williamson. He he he. He barely was better than Marianne Williamson. Yeah how much? How much attention you pay to him. Till South Carolina came along and then Jack. Shafer checks off a couple of the big stories he returned to his old bumbling waves, but gathering is become. So to his personality, he doesn't apologize for it. Anymore I am gaffe machine, he conceded in December of two, thousand, eighteen. You have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or trump than you ain't black black radio host, your cannon, brace it, and then pull it off in a way. The George W Bush was pretty good at that. You know just Kinda hang on the fact. My mom always said that I don't get my words rightly all the time you know that sort of right? Yeah. Yeah. but anyway so. It's funny. You combination of bias and. It seems you know what? Honestly it does seem odd to beat up on Biden number one. He's really old. and. You hate to beat up on an old guy, and we all saw what happened to Korn pop didn't go. Corp. top thought he could get over on vine porn pop was a bad deal out. got a chain wrapped around his head for his trouble So he's old. He's really a Nice Fella. I, mean he's flawed and his goofy in the rest of it, but everybody says, he's a nice guy, nine decent mom and and just and. There's virtually nothing new. You can write about him and buy new I. Mean like less than forty years old. Yeah. The the the oftentimes if you've been around for a while they hit you with their well, he's got a long record to pick apart as opposed to somebody new. Yeah. But he's kind of on the other end of it's just he's been around for so long and so known like what, what are you going to bring out? That is no. Here's a good example for you a couple of years ago. I actually came across somebody thinking. They were being clever pointing out that Mick, Jagger has big lips. and. I was momentarily stunned. I thought. WHO, how, who, how, out of touch you think anybody needs to? Is that big lip since nineteen, sixty four would not a joke. So it would feel like that to talk about Biden. He's a gaffe machine. You know, yeah, we've known that since nineteen eighty. So yeah, and it's It's rather long piece and I'm summarizing project. Schafer nails it. Just everybody's kind of flabby about writing about Biden. So Mark Halperin is He always used to say following politics at everybody gets their time in the barrel everybody running for office. You'll. You'll go through a weaker to where you're just getting it from all sides. Will Biden have that? Or will he will he be able to cruise like this clear up until election day. Just. kind of unscrewed is the stuff during like the DEM debates, not because I feel like he had that are surrounding kind of the Kamala Harris bussing thing in the when Bernie was running away with feeling he was standing by of it was more a Look fight fight fight about how what a great line that was camera Harris got off and run. It went away twenty four hours later was just a it was a flash in the PAN what a sex scandal is. Dumb. He actually didn't. You know shouldn't get beat up for that. the hunter stuff I. Don't blame him for his kid now maybe there's some other stuff on. You. Know what was going on in Ukraine and profiting in the family I, don't know. But somebody you'd have to dig that up. China thing to me is more. Hanky, and nobody wants to talk about that for some reason. But So you got here he he's old he. He's a nice feller. Voted, with the secret service women, but that's come and gone and nobody just seems to. Right. Yeah. And Harry legs. that. Seems like a much bigger deal to me than anything that Stuart? Smalley, did and so two. In the, it's all been written before combined with a desperate on overwhelming need to get rid of trump. Yeah. So he's not going to spend his time in the barrel now way forget it. And we'll just have to see how goes if he can avoid debating avoided press conference I, just keep wondering if this is GonNa, turn into a real like a normal presidential election at some point. I mean, we do have. There are quite a few days ninety, what ninety, five or something like that. Now, it's three months. But is it going to become because normally during a presidential election? You got six speeches day by both candidates and non stop news coverage, what they said, and then they start criticizing each other and it's just you know digging into their past and long articles written about this and that, but that just hasn't happened. No, you know I, I don't WanNa be hasty and say that's not going to happen, but it's not. It's not. It's not gonNA happen. Much. Yeah. Well, part of it can't happen unless something changes with the covert, you're gonNA have six speeches. In, five different states like who would normally happen. Yeah. Although that which is over eighty anyway. But it would kill by would. It would have exposed his biggest weakness because he got to that eight o'clock speech in Arizona where he's where he's been up for fifteen hours and sites, dad live a little bit and given a half dozen speeches and he's worn out and old man brain isn't working that would that would have been tough for him. I I mean. I anyway. Any List Corn Papa founding father or whatever, and James? Madison corn. Pop George Washington. If he gets elected, President History will forget that the greatest gift for him is that everything broke playing to his strengths and away from his weaknesses, just just it just dead. Will there be even one debate. Yes or no? I. Don't know I'll bet there's one. But I think it's going to be such a weird format. that. He ever even be in the same building. Dumb. They don't think they don't need to be. but that that that see that again that plays. Away from. Trump's strengths. And away from Biden's weaknesses, trump can't do the personality crowd thing and. that. He's so good at my answer to my own question is truly cowardly. I'm saying, no, there won't be a debate and fifty one percent. Sure. Forty, nine percent. Yes. There will yeah I. Don't think there'll be anything close to a regular debate I mean, obviously no crowd. But yeah, so they do because. If, there ever is a crowded invade again, I, need an explanation for that. Everybody is said the same thing? This is way better without I. Agree, I agree. Well, it's. It's the reward donors. The donor gets a seat. Gets claim they were there but. Hate the crowds at debate. Eileen closer to know debate at all every day. Initially. I thought there was going to be one or two, but every day that goes by I think it makes more sense that Biden certainly doesn't want it. Well. If I'm Biden's people, I come up with a really reasonable, but strong sounding demand for certain ground rules. The. The White House is still not gotten back to us on our ground rules. You can milk that for several days I think, and then go with their response was a joke. We insist on fair ground rules. I think Somebody Joe Lockhart is a big political guy somebody's press spokesman. We were talking about this yesterday him writing an article in time that Joe Biden shouldn't debate. I. Think if there are people at that level saying that there's a decent chance, he doesn't debate. Why wouldn't Joe Biden just say unless there's GonNa. Be a fact checker. I'm not doing it. Exactly. That's one of those ground rules I was talking about ridiculous. Sure. The is laughable. Alive fact Checker is is absolutely ridiculous. That's I think it would work. Particularly, as it will be amplified in repeated by virtually every single media outlet in America. We'll Tom Friedman wrote that in the New York Times. He said these are the things. Joe. Biden should demand real time fact checking. Okay. so He's already got the cover from a couple of different. You know heavyweights and intelligentsia. So yeah, we'll have no debate. That's absolutely amazing. No presidential debate leading up to an election formerly respected, very respected. Tom Friedman. Now, really ought to put on the big shoes and the red knows. No, it's the weirdest year ever. Why wouldn't more weird stuff happened? Go get an attorney car with a bunch of your fellow clowns Tom Friedman. Call, a clown. I go feel the back of my hand just quickly speak and just we don't have to bring them back up again, a next segment trump did tweet out today because a mail in voting and everything like that. Should we delay the election until people can properly securely safely vote? I said you're kidding me, it's a dictatorship. Down by double digits zero. They're saying they should delay the election. Exactly what he's doing with that one. Oh, my God. There are people actually having fits having seizures at MSNBC. Armstrong and getty show. A. Strike three call perhaps guessing something else to. Guess it's harder than knowing. So. That was a nice subtle. HOUSTON, Astros involved there this year, they have to guests which pitches coming Jack because they don't have someone stealing signs and banging on trash cans never forget. Never, that's Phil Collins. That's not the Houston Astros. dugout sounded Biden never cheat. Never forget that cheaters. Yeah. So. Do you know a plurality means if you're talking about a group? I do indeed, it's not the majority, but it's the biggest group, right? So they ask people. Has the cove nineteen outbreak been treated. As a bigger deal than it really is. made a smaller Neil in early is or did we get it about right? The plurality and all the age groups except the very old. Is, made a bigger deal than it really is. Wow. You would not ever guess that based on what you hear from politicians and the media. No, that's that's pretty surprising. One more just. As if it was needed just airtight proof of the Great Armstrong and getty maximum that if you take in reality through the media, you're getting a funhouse mirror view of the world. That's the main thing about these kind of polls because it's it's often completely different than when I got from Cable News. The people under thirty, the plurality say it's been made a bigger deal than a really is. From thirty to fifty same by quite a bit. People fifty to sixty four. Also believe it's made a bigger deal. Only those over sixty five, which are you know? This is the crowd that it's killing the most fair enough The plurality is got it about, right. There's nobody going with a plurality of smaller dealing with while. Allowing, yeah, that's something yet. You have your blue state governors just going crazy shut stuff down fines I, mean I have too many stories from too many places talking about the fines that are going to be levied and businesses that are being forced closed in the rest of it. As I've said earlier, I. Know of more and more businesses that are operating whether the government likes it or not. Yeah. and I. You know I would never encouraged breaking jack except now encouraging it. Anyway. Just keep yourself safe. Keep your customer safe. You have more interest in doing that than the governor does Shosha. So I trust you my friends. What colleges plan to do in the fall. I'm a little bit more interested than the average person because I have a daughter WHO's trying to finish up college in the fall. as of July twenty first. So this is a week ago. Planning for in person I was shocked again, funhouse mirror a shocked to see that forty eight percent of the colleges they pulled are planning for in person classes. Half are yeah. Proposing a hybrid model thirty, five percent. That is what my daughter's colleges doing university whatever planning for online fourteen percent. Considering a range of scenarios. Two point, six percent. Isn't everybody doing that having talking ape teach glass. That's one scenario. Not Teaching it all screw it. That's another. And then waiting to decide point six percent Mary Go. that's me a year I Yeah I. DON'T I. Don't know what they're doing. is they're doing it and it's utterly unclear. What's why can Hatha colleges do in class teaching? But all our public school. So many of our public schools can't. What's going on there there is no justifying it because there isn't there aren't giant all-powerful professor unions like our Teacher's Union. And and that's what it's about. We mentioned earlier that The t the Big Teacher's Union in America is saying I do not have live classes and you need to minimize the amount of online learning, and then as the Wall Street Journal pointed out, the various governors had do make sure that private schools aren't allowed to open either because that would put a lie to what the. Public schools are saying by they're able to pull it off. Yeah. They pull it off the kids at healthy with less money, right? The. Teachers would be protected. They'd find a way. There would be no mass deaths of teachers and the unions would be exposed for what they are and so yeah, the governments, the governors have to shutdown private schools. It's It's a failure of democracy. The more government, the less justice. Remember that folks. Get it tattooed prominently. The trying to figure out what went wrong with the the the Marlins, the Florida Marlins, how no other teams had any cases in the Florida marlins got wiped out by Kovin. Who got it out that happen? PARTYING IN TAMPA Bay. Is it a no, that's the devil rays. Yeah. The marlins there too many teams in Florida. They play near Miami. Oh, Miami believes Yep. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. There the Miami, team certain. So the richest man in the World Ole, obviously partying in, South Beach. Miami beach or whatever. I mean. It's different if you're the Chicago. Cubs. Go on rush, street get hammered maybe, but you're not going to be partying with a bunch of bikini-clad. Harlot. You think that's it. Lake Lake Michigan to Chile. You lay the blame at the foot of. hallet's bikini-clad Harlot. Well, that's. Yes. Mike POMPEO secretary state given a heck of a speech about, China, we're going to play a little bit of for you. It's fully on between the United States and China deciding. Amazing. How much moved? And Getty.
Post Show: What it Was Like to Interview Kara Swisher
"Hello and welcome to inside podcasting. This is a mini episode in which a special guest will speak with me of how to interview Cara Swisher. If you missed my original interview with Kara go back and listen to that first and then come back and listen to this behind the scenes episode. It'll make a lot more sense that way and with that I will introduce my special guest. Today he is the man who is on the phone with me dealing with my stress at the very beginning of last week's episode. My husband Dawn Pillsbury. Welcome to inside podcasting Dawn. Thank you sky. Feel like I've been waiting for this moment for the last two years have been living living living. The podcast living the dream and just been waiting for an invite to participate. So thanks for having me on board. I'm excited I think. I'm uniquely positioned to drive some insights out of this episode because I really was breathing and living it with you over the past. It seems like six to eight weeks. Now yes you have been and you've been sort of in the background this whole time and this is your here your fifteen minutes don well. I might be twenty but I'm looking excited to be in the foreground. Let's start with care. Swisher is a pretty good get. I would say for any podcast but especially a little podcast. Like inside podcasting. Can you just remind me and your listeners? Can how this came out sure. So I actually met Eric who I mentioned at the beginning of the interview with Eric is her producer and I think we exchanged email prior but I met him at podcast movement at some party that they were having and he gave me his business card and I remember. This is kind of funny. I am. I never keep business cards like people. Give me their business cards and to be honest I just. I'm not one of those people that's like. I don't have a Rolodex like I just figure we'll be able to get in touch with you over email or whatever but I kept his because I thought it would be amazing to have care on the show and having worked in technology and I even was at a party with her once in the nineties and even then I remember being like. Wow that is Cara Swisher. So she's just always loomed really large so when I met him there was no way I was going to give up that chance to pitch him and so when I got home I literally just I sent him an email and I was like. Do you think there's ever would ever be away that she would come on. And you know I gotTa say it was pretty easy I mean he got back pretty quick and she was in the middle of. She's about to have a baby and so we delayed in the interview for a little bit but aside from that I mean that was really the only roadblocks and and of course that was for a good reason while shows you that you just have to ask people sometimes and it might be easier to get a yes. Anybody thinks exactly well. Speaking of phone calls the phone call itself at the beginning of the episode is pretty hilarious. I had actually forgotten the you'd recorded it And when you played it for me the first thing in my mind was how annoyed I been. You had basically not listened to me and it wasn't just like last week. It was telling you for weeks that your battery was dying. So what was the very first thing that went through your mind when you realize that you couldn't start the car? Oh my God that I'm an idiot. I mean I of and of all days like to have that happen and I knew I had to call you because it even though you've been saying it over and over again like I guess it didn't really register until my car wouldn't start then I was like okay. He was he was being serious But luckily it all worked out. Thank God I was stressed in and sweaty when I got to her office but I made. Is there any chance that you'll start drinking more seriously? Now probably not will? Obviously you know. I've got a front row seat and I kind of feel like I'm in the room for putting this interview and really all your interviews together but this one particular We a lot about the some of the stories that she shared some of the things that she's done. You can obviously all those into the episode. Can you share a couple stories that you wanted to put in but yes there were some things that I did cut out for time sake and also I think when you are? I'm making a podcast that is targeted to you know. I'm hoping that the people who listen are like diehard fans of podcasts or podcasting themselves so I have to think about like what's important to them so because I grew up in and around the Silicon Valley. I've known of Cara for a long time and I knew that she had had political aspirations. She'd actually announced that she wanted to run for mayor At one point and so I her about that and I did think that her answer was interesting although her interest of like well we have a new mayor now and she's doing a good job and I wanna see how that goes. I want to get in the way of that but you know I still think it could have been interesting to leave an but the reason I took it out was because I just didn't see that that would be to someone who doesn't know Cara and he's only listening this because they want to understand the mind of someone who builds who's building a podcast You know that wouldn't be as relevant to them so I took it out for that reason. All that was a hard hard one to cut. So let's get to the interview itself. It's a great interview and there's so many stories that care has and she she just can't stop sort of talking about sort of the exciting things you've done to the people she knows but. I wonder if that make it tough for you because I know you had prepared a ton of questions and there's more than a couple times where care kind of cuts you off and starts going in a direction that she whether she wants to go there or not. She's going there. She owns all the land. Remember so what are you? How are you able to kind of adjust on the fly? When you're interviewing someone like Cara who can take over the conversation so that is a good question? I think I something going for me in that. I only brought in note cards and I think psychologically had no cards with like words on them rather than like questions written out which I sometimes do have when I'm doing an interview completely remotely and not seeing anybody even on a screen so I just had no cards. Which made me feel? I did it because I didn't want to be like this. Lame nerdy person. Who came in like all her like questions. Pretty sure not something that carrot does and might not respect so. I was like okay just look like a reporter and like just have my note cards and whatever but I think that the advantage of that was that made me feel much more loose loot sort of loosey-goosey like I kind of go with the flow. So and you know what I was also prepared for that because Kerris wisher is. That's her style like she she for people who was Rico decode. They definitely know like Edo. She just cut people off all the time. It's kind of like her in a way signature. I think it drives some people crazy. I know this actually because people have told these though but other people like me really enjoy it because I feel like she's just like this bulldog it's like you've just like let her out of Lake. Who knows where he's coming at? You and I love that about her so I didn't really mind it. I actually Kinda thought like Oh. I'm getting the real Keira you know but I I yeah I did have to pivot a little bit and I was okay with that. I was somehow survived it. Why do you do a good job because you don't really miss a beat and I think you're trying to be cool? Air quotes with their. No cars is probably a good idea. Because you're disabled to sort of nudge. Her in different directions but let her do the talking. Which is the whole point of the interview? So yeah it worked for sure. Oh thanks honey. You're welcome so I have to confess. I had trouble tracking in identifying some of the people in her story she talks about so many people have so many different stories that I was you know half the time I was sort of like. Who is this person? She's assuming that I know who this person is. What I was wondering is did. The same thing happened to you. And their time for your dislike sitting there with their no card smiling and faking it like Oh yeah John Right. Oh sure did not. Have you know I actually knew a surprising number of the people that she brought up? I think in part because I did used to work in tech and some of the names she mentioned we're in tech and I lucked out like she. She brought up the woman who did the constitutional what the Constitution means to me. Play and like randomly. I had seen her on stage. And you know there were certain Name she threw out there that I just. I also just lucky but efforts so funny that you ask them that because after the interview She had mentioned someone named Richard Poplar. And I'm sure he's really famous and I'm probably embarrassing myself by admitting this but I remember that I actually after it was over I went home and I remembered that name and I google that I was like who was this so there definitely were you know I mean. I'm sure there was at least you know there. There had to have been a few more. She mentioned so many names. I'm sure there were other. I didn't remember but I can't think of who they were off the top of my head but you know to certain extent she just she moves so fast that it's like if you just keep nodding your head it. She's not going to be like do you know Richard Butler is and so it ended up. Fine I sort of. I never felt nervous at the at and if I hadn't known like issue given me a chance to mention I didn't know their names I would've but I had to just roll with the bunches and you're totally right. She does she did. She made this assumption even talking to me that I knew these people which was not always the case but you know I tried to let that that. Roll off my back. We did it very smoothly. What was going through your mind. When she said that there's plenty of money in podcasting to call her and tell her that I'm not seeing any money at all coming in the door from this podcast. Well really what I thought was wow. You're lucky because so many people I mean. The vast majority of people are not seeing a lot of money. Come in from podcasting. I do think that she sort of played down when I said but you know. Swisher was like well. They're not gonNA come of. It sucks and I was like well. Of course they're not gonNA Kazakhs but you know you are wisher like people are going to come and that is a huge advantage. And I don't know how much she has you know. I don't know if she's reading all the stuff that India. Podcasts are writing about how they're not making any money. What was interesting to me in listening to now is that everything has changed right. We're all you and I are doing this interview in you. Know seven weeks or six weeks into the current virus money is is not coming as easily and of course I have to wonder if that's impacted Vox It is interesting that she is going to be moving order to the New York Times. Do podcast for them. But I don't know if that you know that deal was probably done far before So yeah I sort of. I was gay good for you like that on you. I'm I'm I'm impressed and jealous. Well there's hope for US guy. I'm someday be the next care. Swisher daime raking it in one of the really interesting parts of the interview that you don't really talk about much as you mentioned how she had wanted to be a spy going up but that it hadn't worked out what's the back story there. So carrot is gay and she wanted to be a spy in the military like she wanted to work for the CIA and that was like at the moment that she wanted to do that. There was don't ask don't tell have been passed and that was a nonstarter and so she pivoted. And that's I you know my heart breaks because actually one thing you don't hear in the interview as she talks about it again and and says you know that's really really in her heart like what she what you really wanted to do right vic. She has found a great fit for her salve. Obviously but I think that there is still some regret that that wasn't something that she could pursue at the time. Well knowing what you know about Keira are you absolutely sure. She actually isn't a spy you know if she is. It's the biggest con ever and someone will have to do a public about it. It could be the devious cover story in the history of the CIA. Yeah that'LL BE MY NEXT SEASON. Sushi of what she tells you. Ask Her if she's ever been intimidated by never guests and she says that no one intimidates her. Did you consider telling her at that? Point how intimidating she is to you you know. I wish I should. I wish I had like. I wish I could go back and say that's hilarious. I'm intimidated but I think I think because honestly I was so nervous. Although I don't I'm not sure that that that I feel like I sound pretty relaxed and at some point during the conversation I actually say like I'm pretty comfortable sitting here with you. And and maybe by that point I was going into the interview. I was very nervous and I was throughout the interview intimidated by her because she just is such a force but I guess I was. I guess I was playing it cool like I can't almost even get into my head in what I was thinking at that moment. Because it's sort of like not to compare this to a car crash but like when you've been in a car crash you come out of the car crash and you kind of can't remember like what just happened like who did what and like it's all sort of confusing to you and I think because I was so There was so much anticipation for me before I went into this interview. I think the same thing sort of happened like I left that interview kind of not even knowing what I had said like. When you're asking me now like I consider telling her that I wish I had but I I can't even remember if it crossed my mind. You know what I think. It was the cue cards again. That's kept you cool. May May I gotta do. More of that are why could go on forever but I guess I got one final question. That again is sort of unique to me Or at least my ability to ask. You thought that that interview did not go. Well you thought it was terrible. You came home and you said this is not good and you kind of immediately moved on to your to your other guests and really kind of put this podcast on the back burner almost because it was like you didn't listen to it and he didn't want to deal with it. Why did you think it was so bad? And why do you think it turned out so well you know so that goes back to sort of my previous answers related so I think when you are so nervous about something. It's almost like you're so present in the moment of it happening that after it happens and it's such an intense experience like that was an intense experience for me. This is going to probably sound so lame if Karras was your ever listens to it but it was such an intense experience for me to be in that room with her that when I came out I remember I think at first thinking okay. That went well like I feel like I remember thinking that went well like I handled myself and she was amazing as always but then I had a few people later that day. Say like like excitedly. Text me like how is the interview with? Cara and in that moment I could no longer remember. It was like the by high from being in there with her had worn off. And all I was sort of left with was like this blink hole in my brain of like how it had gone and couldn't remember and so I started telling this story to myself in my head that it hasn't gone well because I couldn't remember anything. I had sat or anything she had said and I just became a bizarre but like I started to dread having to listen to it. I think I was. It was so important to me that that interview not go badly and somehow I turned it on myself and convince myself that I had totally messed up. And so then they didn't listen to it. I did all my other interviews and then finally when I got some distance from it and other interviews I knew had gone well and I had a little more confidence in the tank. I went back and listen to it and I remember you are. You're another room or something and I think it was mid listen And I went over to you and I tapped you on. The shoulder turned around and I was like actually think this CBS interview was like I think it's good enough to go first and I don't know how that happened. America top you on the shoulder and said Hey. Did you get the Car Ke fixed bills? Mary okay. Well that seems like a good place to wrap up I WanNa let the listeners know that next week I will be interviewing while dropping. I'll I'll drop episode in which I'm interviewing the host of ear Hustle Nigel poor and airline woods ear hustle which was a hit with listeners. From Day One told stories about daily life inside San Quentin prison but when Orleans prison sentence was commuted. He and Nigel. Reinvented the show's format and began exploring new narratives. I am super excited to share this interview with you guys next week so I really hope you'll tune in for that. It was really fun speaking with them. And lots of Interesting insights and now I will roll my credits inside. Podcasting is produced and hosted by me. Skype Pillsbury. My heroic co-producer is Tara from simpler media. Productions Charles quickly is our sound engineer and Rachel. Loden is our researcher special. Thanks to Jason Kennedy who green lighted this project. And my husband who agreed to let me record the call. You heard at the beginning of last week's show last but not least thanks so much to all of you for listening if you have a chance to to any of the things that podcasters Ask you to do. Leave a review on Apple podcasts. Or tweet about it on social media. That would be amazing. And I'd love to also care what you think feel free to email me anytime. I'm sky at inside com or you can always find me on twitter. I'm they're basically all day at sky. Pillsbury thanks again for listening.
Trek Untold-Episode 13 | Garth Pillsbury
"Hi this is Gareth Mary. You may remember me for my part in Star Trek. Both in Mirror Mirror and the cloud minders enjoy listening to Turkey untold. Hello and welcome to trick untold the Star Trek podcast that goes beyond the stars on your host. Matt capitals. Today. We have the pleasure of talking to another character actor who appeared on the original star trek show from the nineteen sixties. Garth pillsbury appeared in two episodes of original show. His first appearance was part of one of the best episodes from the original series that has spawned many many follow ups that continue today, and that episode was mirror. Mirror there. He played a crewman named Wilson who protects captain Kirk from Mirror Chekov only get socked in the jaw as credited from the captain after he followed that appearance up with another role in season. In the episode of the cloud minders where he plays a troglodyte disruptor, a terrorist or freedom fighter depending on your view in the episode who's part of a group trying to gain more equal rights for his cave dwelling people against the culture and elitist people from the city name. Who Literally Live on the clouds? It's very much on the nose, but that kind of summarizes season three star. Trek doesn't it after Star Trek garth appeared in many other pictures typically falling in the category of what I would call exploitation films oftentimes but ultimately movies that just don't take themselves too seriously. One of those movies was written by Roger. Ebert before he'd become the world famous critic that many folks no from today however, he did get to work on one of the earliest films that starred Kevin Costner and he's got some good memories about that fill these days. Garth spans more time behind the lens as a photographer and cinematographer, and that includes taking fix playboy. Mr Pillsbury has had a very diverse lifetime of careers and at eighty two years old he shows no signs stopping anytime soon before we begin this episode I'd like to remind you to follow us on facebook twitter and instagram at trick on told all one word no spaces. If you WANNA check out some of our truck untold merchandise, you can also do that on our spring store. Would you could find on T. Spring Dot com slash stores, slash trek untold where We've got shirts, hoodies, mugs, stickers, tote bags, and all sorts of other things available to proudly display how much you like this podcast if you're having trouble finding the link, just check us out again on social media and you'll see us posting about it from time to time there as well. You can also support our show by visiting Patriot Dot com slash trek untold if you're already following us or offering us your support. Thank you for your help. Most of all. If. You can't support US financially please make sure to subscribe to the podcast and leave us a rating and review on itunes or wherever you listen to the show. This helps more people find out about the show and help spread awareness of trek untold I'd also like to make a quick shout out to our friends at triple fiction productions who make some Great Three D. Printed Star Trek inspired products for toys and people, but you'll hear more about them a little. Bit later on now, without further ado, let's up this week's guest computer access interview file, affirmative initiating program, and welcome back to trek untold and joining me on the other side line is veteran actor as well as photographer and cinematographer Garth Pillsbury Garth. How's it going today where else so far so good except I live here in Hollywood California just under the Hollywood sign and the weather forecast is kind of warm I think it's supposed to get up to around. Ninety four or so which is in my opinion not could but it doesn't have the humidity that the east coast has. So it's not that bad but once it gets over a hundred which she does once in a while. I find that quite uncomfortable but other than that everything's fine pretty much like the rest of the country kind of shelter down you know I get out a little bit. But basically I'm here. Yeah. Yeah I do go for a bike ride. I. Try to accept I. Probably won't today 'cause too hot just to get some exercise at all. Well, hopefully today, we can give you some mental stimulation as run down your history, your career, and just talk about all sorts of things. Okay. I'm ready. Go Forward I. Thanks I is I like to learn a little bit about who the actors were. You know your whole career Bogas let's talk about who You are being and your roots and origin story. So let's start off with where you were born who your parents were and what little garth wanted to be when he grew up. Okay. Well, let's see I was born in New York City many many many years ago nineteen thirty, eight at a hospital. I believe that no longer exists somewhere around second new and I grew up all over the place My mother had wonder less less than. Choose sculptress known. She has a piece of the Whitney Museum in New York City of peace in San Francisco what was her name Oh she went under the name of Blanche Phillips. Blanche Phillip. Phillips Howard or or Blanche Phillips I'm not sure but I think it was blanched Phillips Howard is was her name should be quite old if she was still here with us. But she had wanderlust, and so at the age of approximately six o'clock six o'clock up approximately the age of six we moved to the San Francisco Bay area. My Sept father at that time was in the Merchant Marines. So. She and I took a train across the United States and landed in. California. then. We moved to Walnut Creek. California. Then we moved to point Richmond, which this is all in the bay area a point Richmond, and then to San, Francisco itself then to Marin city. Then to Mexico I lived a year. Then we lived here. Then we moved to Texas, the area, Brownsville Texas where we lived a year. Then, we moved back to New, York City where I went to high school High School Performing Arts there to study acting. And then finally got to the age where I moved out my mother and stepfather she'd be married at that point, an artist who's a painter whose own as one of the California artists, and he actually did one of the murals at Coit Tower and San. Francisco. And because we're on a very limited income we move then to Mexico. where I lived there for year then to Texas. where I live for the year then to New York City and then she. Moved to Greece. And then she moved to and. That's what My stepfather then moved to Bellina California. No I. You moved to Carmel area. then she moved up to San Francisco again, then up to Bellina California and just. Kept going. Kept moving yes. Yes. Even just hearing how how do you went to you before you even high school is a little bit insane to me. Yeah. Yeah. Now. And then Mexico there was no real school up 'til I guess it went for third or fourth grade something like that, and so I had a private tutor there, and actually at the beginning I disliked living in Mexico it was a a culture shock. I. Didn't speak the language I didn't know anyone and so it was a problem for a while but I finally you know got acclimated to it and Enjoy myself pretty much. So and then when we moved to Texas. That is when I don't know what took over I decided I wanted to be an actor. And luckily, the High School Performing Arts in New York City accepted me extremely late. They just happen to have a dropout. In their. Classes or the students they were willing to accept. And so I, went there for four years and studied. Well there they taught you in the drama department they talked to acting, of course, and boys, and play writing and make up and on and on. You know. So so quite a an education very frankly if it had not been for. Performing Arts. School, but because of Performing Arts I. Got Through high school otherwise, I probably would have been playing hooky all the time. I'm kind of curious because he said he spent so many years moving around up until you had to high school. Even after that, there was more moving around but. I'm kind of curious if maybe the reason why you went into the performing arts was because that might have been that you were able to make friends and meet more people have people to talk to that sound like something that could be Camilla happened. You know you know as I say I don't know what I was I think thirteen or fourteen when we moved to New York City and for some reason I as I said, well, I was in Texas I don't know where this came from I suddenly decided I wanted to be an actor where we lived in Texas was actually outside of Brownsville on the beach there were no a people kids my age to talk to. The school at that point was literally mile and that I went to was literally a mile and a half from where we lived on the beach. But there was a channel that went from the Gulf of Mexico into Brownsville and the only way to get to school was to go take a bus to Brownsville, which was some twenty miles or twenty five miles whatever then back up the other side of the channel school and then back home again. The thing that occurred because as I say I really didn't like school at all. Was We were living on the beach it. I had to walk approximately somewhere between a half a mile and a mile to catch the school bus, which was there every day Monday through Friday and somehow or other quite often when walking down the beach to to the road with a school bus was. That I would give up, go swimming instead. Of course that I wrote notes From my mother. Please issues guard. From school yesterday he wasn't feeling well. And of course, they were adopted. With her signature. Had So apparently thing either accepted it or decided it wasn't worthwhile while pursuing. I, don't know. But you know once I got to New York City, of course I I went to this high school performing arts. Therefore, I was surrounded with people who had the same interest before they are said that time taught not just drama but they taught music photography and dance all of those and strange that photography was part of that curriculum there I didn't take any the courses there. We were required to take some sort of a dance class. So once or twice a week, which is not my forte. SORTA ballet or maybe modern dance although I enjoy modern dance very much these days to watch not to do I don't have any. Talents here. I know sooner finished high school when I got involved with A little later or or in New York City, and one of the plays I was in was directed by a pretty well known at least theater director by the name William Ball and he directed a play call Ivanov which is a checkoff play. And he was involved mostly with classical theater and he knew someone or some people at Ashland Oregon and recommended that they see me and accept me as an apprentice a and they do just shakespeare there at actually or they did at that time they may do other place there now. and. So I got involved with doing summer stock mostly Shakespeare. But then I also did in Nyack New York where my mother then was living finally moved to. A play or they brought in what's called package plays with stars and I had the looked to play a rather large. Fart. Out With Joan Blonde del who was certainly very famous actress in the forties. Play by the name of Come Back Little Sheba where I played Arne. Ed while I was back on the east coast I went to Burlington Vermont did Shakespeare's Stratford. Group twenty players in Massachusetts. And people kept saying to me go if few should go to. Hollywood, you should go to Hollywood you know. So I finally I bet woman at young lady at the time in Burlington Vermont. I was doing Shakespeare and played Marquette Antony in Julius. Caesar. Here. Who is to have to? Their What was I? GonNa say. So Sh I went to Hollywood with Then she was an actress too and waiting for the phone to ring which never happened. For quite a while. Would do plays here in Hollywood and call agents up you really have to have had an agent to get into the studios in those days. And I couldn't get an agent down to see me in anything. But what? I did was a play that was directed by Bruce. dern. who you may may not be aware of, but he's super well known actor was up for an academy award a few years ago for his portrayal in Nebraska. anyways Bruce said to me God. He's he said, you know you're very good actor. Do you have an agent and I said no I don't have an Asian I can't get an agent to get here to see me and He said use my name tell them that Bruce. Dern told that you know say say to them that he suggested you come down and see him in this play. and. That's exactly what happened. I call some agents pretty well known agent came down to see me. He asked me he wanted me as a client I said yes. Yes. Yes. Of course of course. And I began to work a little bit. Then I think the very first show I did was an FBI with I think it was Brad Stillman but I'm not sure the actor's name. And then. You know I did a Mannix, all these shows. You mentioned on the show is that I read up on your Few things that are clearly missing like Mannix is not their feelings aren't there So that's always a problem with I'm glad I'm glad to actually talk to you to get more information. But accord I'm. The first ruler listen it was from twelve o'clock high. Played. It was a World War Two drama you appeared in was that your first? Day of work or is it is the first thing you did that aired That was the very first show I was ever in and the interesting thing about it is when they played, I never saw it and then I saw that somebody had a copy of it for sale and I thought well I'll I'll watch it I'll buy it and watch it and even though I do have credit. For playing this part, I have not in it I am not in in the television show at all. Cut, me out. I don't know whether it was because I was so bad. I don't think. So it was probably a question of timing. You know they have a certain amount of time to put the show together for the commercials and everything and they decided that it was something that wasn't needed and I ended up on the cutting room floor, but I have credit. Hit. Which I think is very funny. You're listening to act as being two different episodes. So we're both appearances cut or is there just some wrong information on your IMDB page twelve o'clock I know I never heard from them again, you heard from him again, but the year didn't run for very long time. You know what what happens here is you have an agent who keeps the Busy admitting you and a casting director somebody Mites you know and you get to go in and see these people but they never did call me back and who knows why you know but it's it's unusual actually to be called on the same show back again to do the parts that I I was doing although it did happen on the soap operas. Times I was called back now. Obviously, you've had so much experience in theater at that point, but twelve o'clock high being your first TV appearance, what was it like for you to walk onto the set for the first time and see everything see how different it was well, number one you you've you've feel is when you're on stage, you feel at least I feel I think most actors feel that there is an excitement of working in front of a live audience and there's an energy that is being put forth because you need to reject to an audience out there. the twelve o'clock high I stood around waiting naturally before they got to me and I thought my God these people are are not doing anything. They're just kind of talking. You know nothing. Really energetic. Here which is it's a different form of acting generally speaking I would say, and so when my turn came to actually do my part. which was a pilot. And it was full of exposition, which is very difficult to do I find because you have nothing to hang your hat on you do you're just trying to come up with numbers and times and things like that right? Where you're not involved emotionally where you have something to spring from. But the actor who was the star of the show I believe at the time wasn't there he had a dental appointment or something he was gone. So the very first time I ever appeared on television. I was literally talking to thin air. Nobody there. which you find later on if you continue. In this business that quite often if you're dealing with movie stars or television stars, they're not they're you know they have usually a standard that you can look back. So I found it very nerve wracking the the very first time I worked the other times I worked I mean is that recall I was? It wasn't exposition. It was talking to someone you know which I found a lot easier some not long after that, we come to your first star Trek appearance and that was hard of the second season of the show. So I'm curious before we talk about how you got onto the show. Did you ever Star Trek before before you got on it? No no I didn't. I had never watched it It was at that time for me. It was great I gotta part and show you know like any of the others. Oh, I gotTa Park. It didn't mean anything Oh look at this star Trek I love Star Trek. I didn't really watch much television for whatever reason You know just didn't interest me that much although I mean I did watch some of course but I never. No, I never watched star. Trek. Never had. Now, of course, I have. So, tell us not. I cast to appear on the show. Well, I got a call from my agent saying there's a part on a show called Star Trek keep in mind he said the part that you are reading for is a kind of a wise guy. And I had come to the conclusion by that time having been in Hollywood that they have a tendency to type cast you. If. You look like or seem life of very nice person. That's usually the kind of part you get. If you look like a gangster at is most likely the kind of apart you will get. So I was brought in to read for this particular part. And I kept in mind that this guy was Kinda, like Brash, it was a little one guy you know. So that is the way I behave not just when I was reading for the part but when I was being interviewed for the park. and. But when I after Reading For the part I thought to myself I take I. got this. I think I did really well. So a week went by and I called my agent at the time and I said his name is Phil. I said Phil whatever happened with the Star Trek. He said, well, everybody likes you but the director he thought you were a wise guy. I said wait a medic few. told me. That's what the part was well anyway. So it was water under the bridge at that point. Then, about a week later I got a call from the same agent saying garth guess what they couldn't find anybody. They liked better than you. So you do have the part. So that's how that happened. Very cool. Yeah everyone's cool right and is you know that that was the? Called Mirror. And that is one of the most popular of the episodes that that are been presented by Star Trek. In you know I think at that time also, the idea of a mirror universe was very new in Sifi. When you first read the script, what did you think about it well here again is say at the time at the time Char Trek was another show I I didn't think about it. I thought I've gotTA learn my lines. You know try to portray this character as presented and That's what I dealt with I didn't deal with. Better Watch show, you know better hone up on the rest of the show or all the other shows that are playing I just went in and did it I mean because what often happens is you can have an idea when you walk in to do a apart and then the director says, no, no, I, want you to do it this way I want more of this I want less fat. So it's not a good idea to really cement which you're going to do when you get there because he's very likely to change it. and. There's nice. May Have said I don't think I have is that I find that the? Film and Television is very much a director and an editor's medium. I don't really find it so much an actress media. Because there's so much they can do to enhance and or even ruined performance. You know. So that conclusion I've come to over the years because I personally think I've seen actors I don't think of her. But they come across really well on television and film, and so they're interesting uniquely and look at it. I've never really considered it before but you make a very good point about that. I'll I I really think. So I mean, apart sometimes I tell people that I say, how is it possible to get a candidate almost or an academy award performance out of a child who six years old? How does that happen you know as is the child who six or seven years old born a great actor or actress I don't think so I think they have equality and the director and the editor get are able to mold it. So it it it it becomes. Outstanding. That feeling about it. I mean, I have seen well known actors in parts which I thought they were not very good but I really believe that it's not the actor who wasn't good. It was misdirected or Miss cut as miss edited something like that. In other words they stayed let's say as an example back on medium shots where if they had come in for close up where you can see on television the emotion, the thinking process that the actors going through it gives a much more dramatic quality. Well, if you're on a medium shot, you quite don't see that. So that's why I say it's an editor's. Medium I think and and or directors media and sounds you know No Yeah. It's all sorts of things they can do. Thank, God. Maybe. So what do you remember about your first day of walking onset and getting your costume? What'd you think about Star Trek, the bridge and all that kind of stuff. Well, being all that sort of thing because I had never been acquainted to sort of set you know the kind of space thing it's very impressive. It's very impressive. You know what's going on the other thing you know that happened with that particular show Mirror Mirror is that You know it starts out my scene starts out with William Shatner walk out of an elevator, and as he steps out of the elevator, you see a fiscal up and hit him in the jaw I. Guess You know and Then they can usually cut to a commercial and then they come back but he William Shatner said I said you know I was willing to throw the punch but he didn't want me to. Thinking about it, of course, he did because here comes as young ambitious actor who wants to make it really looked good and he might accidentally. Hit him you want. So he had a stuntman come in and throw the punch. But you don't the angle of of where the camera is. You can't tell connection or not. Now, of course assumed this connection and you hear the noise. So you soon release been hit. You know. But anyway that that's Stuck, out of my mind, you know it's a time. Don't know you're not doing this. Okay. All right mean it's basically you're seeing is essentially a wild brawl with you bill shatner Walter Koenig, and a few other actors as well. Did you do all your own stunts during that fighting? Oh No no, no, no no no no they have doubles to all the time you know yeah. No I didn't do any of that. That sort of thing but you did get punched out by bill by William Shatner. That scene that was that true. That happened. Of course, you know That's true. That's true. But I thought you meant you know some of the stuff that you see they use a double. So quick you you don't have time to recognize shorts angle where they people that look somewhat like you. You know doing it and So but I mean the only the only thing you know I mean I've watched that episode now a couple of times because I was in it but I, the only thing I really remember about it when doing it is what I told you you know I do have what I consider an interesting experience due to that particular episode which as we know it was very. Popular. But I've done a couple of these star trek conventions. The very first convention I did was in Las Vegas and I have a friend who savvy enough has passed away. Now who suggested he He had done the deep space nine series and he's had to make you ought to go to Las Vegas and do one of these signing make a lot of money and I'd never even heard about it or thought about it but I thought all right. I'll give it a shot and he was right You know over a period of three or four days I made a fair amount of money. But what so what are the things that stood out There were two things. One was that somebody came up to me and you know if you guys the characters, you know whether it's my character somebody else that make that show fair. The ones who make the show and secondly the thing that I found very touching. was, a woman came up to the table where I was sitting? Had pictures behind me. Big Blown up. Said some on a table. And she started crying. And I'm say I'm GonNa say what's the problem she said I'm very emotional I well ham to. What why why what's happened? She said to me. When I grew up I lived I. think she said Brazil. But I'm not sure about the country and I used to watch you in Spanish. I moved to Texas and then I began watching you and of course, you're speaking English. And now here I am Las Vegas, and here you are. She just emotionally was blown away. That there I was. After watching me for so many years and the interesting thing about that is that I went to Chicago and do the show and occurred to me there that this is fascinating. Of course, there's people in the Midwest Chicago. Area. Covering states would come up to Chicago. It was Leonard News last appearance at a convention. And so it was the last chance. If you'RE GONNA, try to get an autograph etcetera from him. And certainly occurred to me that. Who living in that area it is a big deal for them to actually touch elbows. So to speak rub shoulders, you know with well known or known actors, it's a big deal for them. And and and one woman said to me I have decorated my whole living room with Star Trek You know pictures, gadgets I am now working on the stairwell. She was from Tennessee somewhere something I. This is incredible. You know the people who are into Star Trek are really in Star Trek Yeah. It's. It's an amazing fan base on the net. Yes it is. Certainly is I mean here? It is fifty years later and it's still going still going. Yeah. Crazy. Untold will. Return momentarily. Trip untold brought to you by triple fiction productions. If you're a star, trek 'cause player looking for props tweak lecter looking to spice up your shelves. Triple fiction productions has you covered Triple. Fiction productions produces affordable and unique three D. printed trek inspired products from the original series next generation deep space nine voyager enterprise, and the movies. You can expect the same amount of care and attention to detail in any of the items in their catalog whether it's a prop replica for use a banfield or part of 'cause play or accessories in place that's for figures from playmates, medals or diamond select. Own your very own try quarter or phaser rifle with working lights the bridge of the enterprise e for your playmates figures or any other item countless species. From the Star Trek. Universe. All products are three D. printed in the USA and are constantly evolving and improving based on fancy back. To learn more about their products, visit them at triple dash fiction productions, dot net. Or on facebook at facebook, dot com slash triple fiction productions. Triple fiction productions taking star Trek were no three D. Printer has gone before you. Below I am Josepa court, the host of cheese of podcast. My podcast covers everything photography, not the hardware side of things, but the adventure, my adventure in photography I also have a few guest host who will hop on every now, and then they both have varied experience in photography. And they know way more tonight, do so I if brains and things that they tell us is really remarkable. So make sure you check out cheese photography podcasts, find a license or at rage works. We now return to trek untold. So when Mir Mira first aired on TV nineteen, sixty seven did you watch the episode I? I'm sure. I. Did you know as I say the trouble clock one I never did see until I bought a copy of it but I almost one hundred percent soon as. If. They studios. They usually. Usually. You that your show we'll be on. Such, and such day and I'm pretty sure. I did watch it at that time I don't remember watching it. I'm pretty sure I did well looking back on your performance. How do you think he did? Did you like what saw of yourself you know as an actor? You always I always feel as, Oh, you could do. You could have done better. I I didn't find it I didn't say to myself I listen back. You know what? I didn't do well, but you always think to yourself gee, I could have done a little more this a little more of that. You know. Let me do it again. Let me do it again and there were actors or actors who do do that they. Let me do it again. Let me do it again, and if they're big stars, they get to do it again if they're not a big star addresses, there's no we're moving on. He's happy they move on so. So. I I was not in a position to say at the time when I did it like I think I could do better they seem to accept it. So I accepted it all they must have liked it because you came back to do another episode in season three, which was the cloud minders. In that episode, you played a trod light disruptor. Great. You know as you know they completely China found amazing I mean I. was in two episodes, the FBI and two episodes, Star Trek, and and a lot of episodes, certain soap operas. But I I was somewhat amazed that they did ask me to come back to do another show star Trek. But of course, I was completely dressed. So unrecognizable, you know the and Toga all sorts of things like that. That was that was a bizarre costume basically purple pajamas a blue hat with a long. Silver glasshouse exactly, and the thing that was a in terms of dialogue that was there was a lot more dialogue there than I had in mirror. Mirror. You know there was a scene it really took some a little bit of time. And when I the thing that I, I left there with was the director came over to me at after I did the part and he said to me garth you did a really good job and so of course about you know an ego builder and I always remember that So, there we go. So yeah, you mentioned that seeing that you did that was with Jeff Corey who played the character classes and He had a very, very prolific career since the nineteen thirties even up until his death in two thousand a how'd you like? Yeah well you know I mean I. I you know it was you know with film it's like they turn they do blaster shot sometime of some kind you walk in shows everybody and then from then on, it's medium or close up shots and so. I never was face to face with him. It was at a distance you know is being held by two guards at twenty or thirty feet away and having. So but a lot of television show should actually are face to face nose to nose you know. But I, mean I surely knew who he was and You know it. He was considered a very fine actor and work as you say works a lot. So we should add that Mr Cory. Again he started acting in the nineteen thirties and basically at the peak of his young career in early fifties, he was blacklisted. During the McCarthy trials and all that stuff. So, he turned acting for quite some time and star Trek was one of his first appearances after returning being blacklisted. But in between that, he became a very well known acting teacher in the industry. He taught Leonard Nimoy. taught. Robin. Williams Bruce Lee Jack Nicholson Barbra streisand Richard. Chamberlain, very big list of very well-known actors actresses did you get to chat with him all about acting or anything else when you guys weren't working together? No No. I never did I did the show you know walked off the set. The Nice thing about that particular show for me financially was that the way the screen actors guild works that is once they call you for a certain day they have to pay you for that day whether or not they get to or not They call it a rain check or something like that and it turned out that I. Think I was cold set to do the show on Monday. They didn't get to me until Wednesday or or Thursday so I kept getting paid. For. Not being there. I remember that part but I certainly knew who Jeff Corey is was but I never I'd never talked to him I never. Spent any time with him? No I have spent time with Marlon Brando and Robert Mitchum but never with Jeff Gorry I definitely don't ask brand on a moment but I didn't WanNa ask one other thing about this episode and you're seeing ends with you have a window fall to your death Do you remember what you remember about doing that? Well, I I remember what I did is I broke you know broke free. And, then from then on, it was a stuntman. Okay. Yeah. I never read. I never ran up those stairs I never jumped I never jumped and as I understand IT I. Didn't have that high definition television that as it shows me falling toward the planet It is actually a some kind of a animated drawing and and the old days the way that television were you couldn't tell but in a high Def subtitle, you can actually see the not real person. You can literally cut out that they just. Yeah. Yeah. I. You know as I say I thought that was that particular for me as an actor it was that was the cloud monitors was more fun to do. Yeah I think both parents were a lot of fun to watch I mean you played two very different characters. Like Captain Kirk and you got to talk with very prolific. Mr Cory I think they're pretty great. Yeah I did. Okay. I did okay and yeah and and it was just amazing. I was extremely lucky that I was in to those shows and it became so popular and by doing the conventions you know I actually made a lot more money doing the conventions doing the show. Yeah. It's amazing and even to this day at least usually two times a month I get a Fan mail you know would you please sign this? You know and I Do believe that most people who are sending me these letters look what they should say because they almost always say the same thing I've been watching your career ever since the beginning you are a great actor you know how Cetera et Cetera could you please I this? Sometimes they said money sometimes don't but You know they said, they do send self addressed all old Santa Picture. So Am I, going to say no, I won't sign this unless you send money. Sign it and send it through then no did you ever audition to any the other star Trek series? No. No. Because here again in Hollywood is pretty much agent submit you. And you get a call to go do it. I was rather unhappy that I was never submitted or never called for anyway any of the motion pictures that they did you know but if But frankly after a period of time I lost that agent that I had who got me that particular show and I don't know if whatever aged I had. If they ever sit admitted me or that particular agent that if he did or she did submit me had the clout. agents have clouds. And many years ago they had tremendous clout. If they handled a major major motion picture star they could say, yes, he will do the part you know the May sure. The major motion picture star but I want you to see I want you to read this first and for the other part you. So, and and of course, they want to use the stars so they do. You know. So the breaking through you know I mean one of the most famous ones was the Mardi Balsam. said that was it? No, it wasn't Marty There's other actor who did the the part of Marty it was a sleeper kind of a low budget independent film that made him a star. You know. for now I forget his name now, but he also died but you know he began to work and work and work and work because he the film got great reviews and he did a good job. WHO KNOWS So outside Star Trek I notice on your resume you did lot of work with two directors in particular. That's Russ Meyer and Larry Cannon and yeah I'd say a lot of those films would kind of fall under the category of being cult hit or maybe in some cases, an exploitation film and there's some pretty interesting things like super Vixen Mr of the apes and Miss Melody Jones which was directed by Bill Rom but I think the one that I found kind of interesting to me was you were in beyond the Valley of the dolls which was the first screenplay that Roger Ebert wrote. About working in that film well, and the thing about beyond the Valley of Dogs Yeah Russ Meyer was pretty faithful to the actors that he worked with, and of course, he used me this in. Supervisions, and then beyond the valley, the Dulles But it was a really just a part of an extra and even though I've watched beyond the valley of Dolls, a couple of times I never. Miss me I don't see me but apparently I'm there you know. So it's a must be an awfully brief shot. A bookie. The wrong place I here. Yeah. Did you ever get to meet Roger Ebert I? Don't think. I don't think so. Not that I recall anyway, not that I recall I wanNA follow the other comedies that a little bit earlier about meeting Marlon Brando I'd love to hear about that story. Yeah. Well, what happened is in between acting jobs most actors do things like you know the become waiters cab drivers. Bartenders whatever and in between acting jobs I was doing what's called Handyman work and I happen to be getting some work with a fellow who was an extra who is also a contractor and he was doing work for people like Robert Goulet and Wally Cox and worked for Marlon Brando. And said Garth I've got some work to Marlon Brando's has he wants to convert I. Think it was his garage into like studio which overlooked I believe the valley. It was on top of the hill on Molin Dry. And so I went up there and We were tearing out studs whatever and a late in the afternoon Marlin came out and he grabbed a crowbar and he kinda started helping to tear down what was the garage and afterwards he said to me a Garth, would you like to come in and have a drink? Later I thought are you kidding? There's an actor's GonNa tell mom I don't know. I. Refused to go have a drink. So yeah. We was kitchen. And but I had been told over and over again, that brand new did want to talk about acting. Because everybody wants to say how `bout telling me how you approach parter Blah Blah Blah. Blah Blah, Blah Blah. So I did that and we just had a nice talking to drink and something I said or a couple of things I said made them laugh and that was kind of it but I spent I would say anywhere for half an hour to an hour. Talk he do you know, and of course, it stays shootout stands out in my memory that I met developed. He was a also I am radio operator. Marlon. Brando. Was Really and I also am a ham up hero I have been involved with it for many years and I believe he went under the name he had a handle. So to speak of Marty I believe. But I never talked to him on the radio you know. But I think he got that because he had an island somewhere around. Taihiti and I think he was able to communicate with his workers there. I'm not sure. But I, think that's why he had it. That's a pretty good. Yeah. That's story about Marlin. But I have what? I consider a very amusing story about. Robert Mitchum. Spanta at whole afternoon with and my wife who you know there's also passed away. She was extremely beautiful. And she was just offered parts for the rest of us in the fielder life struggling they were saying here. Here's a part you know because she was so good looking anyways as when she was here in Hollywood, she began to rub shoulders with a very famous people and one of them being Robert Mitchum his wife got a call from a friend over theirs. WHO's coming down from the From Sad Santa Cruz area to Santa Barbara to spend at afternoon and would we'd like to come and join a couple of friends for with them for lunch I said. Sure. So my wife and I went up there we're around he'll everyone does it all of the door and incomes couple? and. I haven't very bad. Very bad memory for names until I get to know people. So we were introduced but I didn't pay any attention. But then I looked over at this fellow who'd come in I said Oh my God that looks just like Robert Mitchum and then he said something. And I said that is Robert. Mitchum. Because he had a distinct voice. So he said, he said, why don't we go in the backyard and you know talk of my friend and and and and I so we did. Now. Robert Mitchum loved to tell stories out his. Career, you know and things that had happened to him boy they were be on stage and movies that we talked and talked and talked, and we all totally different stories. And I told I said to Robert Mitchum I said you know this very interesting I said at that time I had already met Marlon Brando I said you know I spent an after on our to Marlon Brando at one point and he didn't WanNa talk about acting at all and this was Robert Mitchum's response. He said of course she didn't he can't act. I. It's amazing. They were just completely opposite. The way they approached roles you know Robert Mitchum kind of I think learned his lines and did it I think Marlon Brando. Worked had worked on the part. I don't know you know 'cause I've been around Brando what he's actually working park but I thought that was that was very amazing that he's he would say that Robert Rob of Marlon Brando can act. that. Okay. All right. What am I going to say? It's got me wondering. What actors did you use to like to watch when you were growing up that you tried to emulate near career? Well, I've always admired some of the rather they're not necessarily movie movie stars although I enjoyed Marlon Brando especially in the parts like on the Waterfront in the Wild Wild Streetcar there's some of the other parts he did I wasn't necessarily crazy about him I also very much liked Geraldine page who didn't really have that much of a movie career but I thought she was very flying actress Ruth Gordon. I really enjoyed with Gordon certainly Orson Welles. very very Mentioned it to Orson Welles and I mean I you know if I thought about it, I probably would probably. Come. Up with several more. But those are the ones that the moment that stand out in my mind. So at the also ask one other movie that you did that's one from nineteen eighty-three called. Stacy's Knights and that was the direct to`real debut of Jim Wilson and was also one of the earliest films for Kevin Costner in. And Jim Devon Force going to work together on many big hits like dances with wolves the postman bodyguard, Wyatt? Urp? You remember about working with Kevin Costner and Wilson. All right well. I never actually worked with Kevin because you know your show up on such different times time I, got to buy part I'm pretty sure that Kevin had already left or hadn't shown up yet whatever. what what I do remember about it is originally I thought. Well, this script is interesting it could possibly go somewhere. You know do well I thought to myself it just had that kind of thing about it. and I had a pretty good part in it. and then so I did it and then one day this is quite a few years ago I got a call from one of my daughters say Garth, you're on TV with Kevin Costner I said, no your mistake 'cause I didn't know that was Kevin Costner I said that you're a mistake and I never did it feel Kevin coster. Knows you chew you're on TV now. So what had happened is Kevin, has been nominated for Kademi Ward for with wolves and they were showing anything and everything that he had ever done apparently over and over and over again you know because of that and it was Stacy's Knights. So that's what I basically remember about it. I have seen it I I remember being being in Reno is where we did it and I've never been in a gambling town before fascinated by this quite often in the casino we were they're very late at night. because they didn't want to disturb the clients too much and the fellow who we did it in a place the film at a place called makes money tree which I believe is what out of business but they were having financial trouble in. And the fellow who took over the management of it for some reason or other decided that I was a movie star. and He he treated me royally I mean he would. He would buy me dinner. He would get me tickets to shows. You know free with dinner. That's not enough. Yeah I was just amazing. Yeah they're all I should've caught on with Kevin. You know he's WanNa became a movie star Yeah Yeah. It's amazing. We have mentioned your wife a few times and I'd like to actually hear it a little bit more about you and her hockey tell us who she was and how you guys met. Yeah. I was belong to a theater groups no longer exist on Quango Boulevard in. Hollywood or maybe slightly in the valley and She was a member there. and. It was a small little theatre maybe thirty or forty seats and she was sitting in the front row and above the stage was a large clock. which was accurate. It was you know within a few minutes anyways ticking away. And I never really approached her because I thought she is good look at. Pick up anybody she wants. So. Here's this clock pride above her. And I'm sitting right behind her. She turns to me and she says, do you know what time it is? Yeah. She excuse to talk to me. So, we we went out you know Etcetera Etcetera I was married at the time. but I really re but it was I was my first wife I've felt and I have a daughter in New York City by her I've felt my first wife was rather negative. About people about life. and. I thought to myself. I really don't want to spend the rest of my life with a person who has negative leanings. You know there's always down down down on things. And I I was first name was Jaclyn and her last name that under was male and as a model I believe. Jacquelyn Ford. But anyways Jacqueline was One Hell of a lot of fun could be where one hell of a lot of fun and So yeah, I left my first wife for Jacqueline you know. I mean she she is was a very, very unique person very entertaining. Very entertaining. Did you do any TV series or films together? You know actually we didn't know it at the time that we met, but we were on the same episode of the invaders. Right now. Right before star Trek. Yeah. She opens the show I believe the very first shot is of her and then I think play a doctor or something later in the show you know. So aside from acting, I also read that you started to become a professional photographer and I think the client I'm most curious to hear about is when you worked for playboy and Penthouse you tell us a little bit about that well at the time we did vixen of course and for Meyer of course, was a photographer during the Second World War maybe a cinematographer I'm not sure what he was doing. But anyway, he was a very low budget film vixen was a very low budget film which became very popular and he made a lot of money at but he said to me, you know Garth I guess I'd already was interested dockery. Why don't you do the sills on the show and with the rights to them but I'm not GonNa pay you for doing it. I said, okay fine. You know. So I didn't think much about it. Of course, they ran a whole spread in Penthouse magazine of some of the shots I took you know either the second or third or first issue pin house. And then later on playboy wanted to know if I had any. Photographs of Erica Gavin who played vixen and I said, no. they want something to do with Thanksgiving. So I got her and I went up to a Turkey farm somewhere around here and I photographed Erica semi nude, of course, and Turkey farm no less so That's that's how that happened. You know also they. Well I was doing well, we were doing vixen they sent in a photographer from playboy to shoot two stills. Now, I was shooting still on vixen it was it was my dime, the film etcetera and the processing that my cost for was paying for it. Of the playboy photographer, of course, playboy was paying for it in the budget was unlimited sky's the limit you know. So I I was Kinda blown away. He said he just got back from Hawaii where he had shot three hundred rolls of a girl for a centerfold for for playboy. I thought maybe five zero. so I I was you know as I say money was no object to playboy. Was comme. That's how that occurred and so since then you've also done some work as cinematographer on films as well. So was it through this Nixon's they kind of start to get ninety percent. Well I, think by my be I'd always been you know even at the age of seventeen or so I was interested in cinematography. My father had given me a bullet sixteen millimeter camera when I was living in New York City and as I was introduced to how films were being made You realize what you need to do, and so people had thought highly enough of me as a still photographer to ask me if I'd be interested in shooting a video for them and so I started out doing that. the. Usually. I found that they the people were asking me to do it. We're extremely unknowledgeable about how to go about doing this and I found it. upsetting. So I began to say to people look I'm not doing this where I'm the cinematographer I'm doing the lighting I'm doing the sound I'm doing everything you have to hire people to find the location to do the sound to do the make up you know this to this is to amateur for me. I want to if I'm going to do this, I wanted to get better and better and better and Always. Always they promised they were going to do it. You know that is do it professionally on their end and ended up that it wasn't that I ended up doing part of it anyway and You know you you WANNA. Be You want to be proud or feel as though you're being creative with what you're doing and so unless you have a budget, it's not the way to go you know for me. So but on the other hand, oh I do a lot of still photography. and. I have a website and without any advertising whatsoever. I've had close to fifteen thousand people looking at that website which I find. Quite a amazing. You know without advertising always people apparently and they're from all over the world you know people China Germany and you name it and the United States of course Russia you name it go to this website to look at and I, think that some of them are photographs are quite good but there are a lot on there that I don't now looking back at them I it oppor good but I leave the there. Anyway. So what kind of stuff shooting these days? Well, I'm not much of the moment because only. Things. Out Much although I did I, did. Shoot a flower something up street the other day. But I'd also. AM interested. The last thing that project that I did which I was impressed with some of the stuff I did was street photography that I did in Cuba up. Was On your website actually. Yeah. Yeah. So you know but I wanted to give give a shot at doing street photography and here and there I've done it in the past but I made a liberal project while they're of doing that and I thought I captured some interesting photographs there and we'd like to do that here in Los Angeles two or somewhere. Else. In the world you know, but it's not very possible at the moment. Hopefully, things get better. You can come back to New York and doing over here I I've been in New York and I love New York and I would live in New York I'll tell you what I would live well except for the them like I live in New York. Now if I could afford it, you know four five, thousand dollars a month for an apartment is beyond my budget Luckily, I own the House that I live in I live below just below the Hollywood sign in Hollywood I live in a house that was what's called a craftsman unique house very nice. Very nice house and assuming fortunate and. Buying that house by the way was through my wife, she had by previous marriage, five daughters and We had to be leaving the place for staying. She was driving up the street. This woman was pounding assign into the you know the the curb area house fruit for lease. She told the kids stay in the car she didn't want to scare the. Woman she said I'd be interested in your out. So she ran into said luckily, she took a great liking to us. I had gone to to Asia to film. We had moved out of this house because they kept raising the rent and I wasn't making that much money came back from Tunisia hated the place where we were then living ran into the lab, the owner who asked me if I would like we would like to move back in. And would not raise the red and I said, yeah, sure. this the owner of the mail said, would you be interested in buying the House I said Yeah. But I don't have anybody he said I'll tell you what you pay the escrow fee and I'll take back the mortgage. So escrow he was five hundred dollars and it was just pay him. I didn't have to bank or anything I bought this house, which is now worth between a million and two million dollars for forty five, thousand dollars. You cannot do that I am a millionaire on paper you know. What I mean I could go to Spain and by a castle you if I wanted to live in Spain I guess but a extremely fortunate otherwise that'd be living in an apartment somewhere. So yeah, this is a beautiful house, a beautiful house. So Mr Pillsbury, you've worked for many decades but what is the favorite day? You never had onset somewhere? What is your favorite role that you did? Well, I think my looking back at it. My favorite role was playing Mark Anthony and Julius Caesar it. You know in the theater in Burlington Vermont I think that was my favorite role in terms of of of television. You know and or film My favorite roles would have been one that was never released that Larry Buchanan had directed. It was originally called the rebel Jesus. Then they change it to the copper schools of Mary Magdalene or something like that. Yeah and so that would have been a really good role you to well I did it but it was never. Released and you know, and then the others of course was a nice part in Stacy's Knights You know which which is also was called something else at one point. I. Feel Double Down Originally, it was called double down and then they changed stacy's heights. So I mean there's the partly because they were larger roles you know and so I I remember them as being the ones that I liked to the larger the role. That is especially if you feel as though you did. Did it well? Yeah. If I feel as though, I've done something poorly Then of course, I don't mention that. That's kind of notices looking through some of your work is I you should have been more of a leading man in lottery stuffing you have the look you have the ability obviously especially on shows star Trek you in on Wayne we're up since I would like to have seen him more things like that and really show us what you can do I mean. I agree with you. Luck of the draw. As I, say part of part of the problem here in Hollywood is having a really good aged good agent meaning the an agent who has the ends. There are lots and lots of agents here who are submitting one hundred. Let's say example one hundred people for a part hoping that one of those people get picked at but they're not going to depart parts being submitted for are not starring roles. They're smaller parts they they went to hire people who are well known and You know because they consider once again, that's box office. You know you know like Leonardo Di Caprio is box office in Johnny Depp is box office. Oh, by the way I, I've pretty good friends with outstanding. I've met Leonardo, a couple of times you know Nice really nice guy but I really don't talk too much. You know 'cause everybody was to talk to Leeann his dad is a sweetheart of a guy. You would never record guys Leonardo and instead. Related Joe his name was George Go. George has all hair down shoulders. He looks like a Hippie. It's just amazing but he is a sweetheart of a man. He really is. You know I did do this video which he financed. He loved my wife as an actress and he said to me. I said to him. I have this little script that one of my daughter of my wife's daughters wrote and I'm thinking of doing it and he said to me. I'll give you some money to do it because he loved her so much. But so highly of her and I thought he was talking about I'll give you a couple of hundred dollars. You know he said no, I'm going to give you five thousand dollars. Yeah. So really really good guy really good guy. Yeah and it takes me out for breakfast once in a while you know he calls me up fiscal and breakfast you know he he George NFL by Paul Fleiss who has a pediatrician who was the father of Heidi Fleiss through? Well, no matter in Hollywood. George myself and Paul used to go up. On hikes. A couple of other people also every almost every day for many many years you know. So we became very good friends. So I know there's a lot of spiring actors listening to the show today and someone with yourself. Who's got so much experience doing Shakespearean Theater as well as. Acting on TV film do you have any advice you can give to anybody listening today who wants to become an actor. The advice is extremely frustrated I. think that if one wants to do it, one should give it a shot. I mean, I really beat myself up for many years when I was younger because I wasn't working or working enough. You know you look at my career and you say, Oh, he did a lot of stuff. Yeah. But it's over so many years that you worked for a week and then you don't work for year and then you work a couple of days another year. then. You don't work for six months and you know it's it's, and if that's what you WanNa do and that's how I got involved with photography because photography, I can do when i WanNa do it. There's nobody who says you know I'm going to hire you to do show. Yeah. I don't necessarily get paid to do photography, but it's a creative outlet I am involved. Group now, and I can act and and at this point in my career, my life is I. Have Attention and I don't have to get paid I can side I wanNA, smack in. Because I want to do the action not that I need to make living at it you know but it, but in terms of advice It is Hollywood is is is a look it's having a good agent. You know I it's it's extremely competitive everybody in the world has, let's go to Hollywood I wanna be an actor. So, but it can happen. but I know too many people sadly enough who have devoted their whole life to theater and they at the age of sixty sixty five whatever are trying to live on social security because they never really made a living you know. So not too long ago back in May celebrated a pretty big birthday just turned eighty two right Right. Right. I did identity do so. Happy. Birthday but. What do you trust your longevity? A good health lack of women. That's good advice I ever heard. I. Mean. That's why it is. No I. You know it's interesting on my mother's side and particular. The head, all had long lives except for my mother. But. My mother's mother's live into their nineties both and her sister lived into their nineties on my father's side seventy, five, eighty, five, my father was seventy five but I think at this point I think my father would live much longer if you taking care of himself but he he hated as a lot of us do doctors why do we hate doctors because we go there and say, Oh, they say oh You don't WanNa hear that So you don't go see them but I would say at this point whatever longevity I have is due to try to take care of myself. You know I of trying to keep my weight down I think there comes a point at a certain age even though you don't change your habits, you have a tendency to put on weight maybe it's the junk food that we eat I don't know but I try to eat well and I get exercise and I enjoy life. I enjoy life so I think that has a lot to do with it. I. Don't sit around do nothing I have things to do. I Love Music I. Love Listening to Music I. also am learning to play saxophone clarinet and I. You know I'm trying to put together an audio production of Julius Caesar I've involved in our theater group. You know I mean so I'm active. Again sitting around waiting to die. Julius. Caesar. Production I am Yes. Yes. I'm playing the part of Brutus. Oh, I thought. Yeah I started it. I thought well, just do the part of Brutus not realizing that he was really to lead. I thought I thought for some other than that. Mark Anthony was the lead. He's not believe it's brutus. Brutus lead. He's got some work. But anyways, this production that's been going on for a long time and the problem now is that how do I get together with some of the actors to record them because I can't really get out my microphone, the recorders you know I've got most of the is taken care of already. But there are some parts that I still need to fill and I tried. Using Zoom, which can be used if the person on the other end has a good setup has a good microphone has a good. You know quiet room it's not echoing etc I can't do that. But most people don't have set up. You know they're just using their computer the microphone in the computer other in a room sometimes which echoes. So it's not as easy to do as one might have. You know. But it's it's it's a project that I didn't realize how difficult it is because. If you don't I what what what I'm doing is putting in sound with it. You know in other words. Footsteps Music crowds. Cheering. On. Yeah. Full follower, polio work. So it finding the right thing that works you know and so Sometimes it becomes a little scourging because it's so overwhelming. Doing all of this, but it's coming along chipping away at. Yeah. Yeah and it sounds very good I think for what I've done so far it really sounds good. Play it sometimes for people for the pedantic that I was getting people to be in it and say listen to this Oh actually I would like you to depart listen to this show. That's yeah. I. Would like to do wick because it does sound good. So. But. It's taking. It's taking my Tolan. Thing patient. Yeah district. Pillsbury last question for you today, and that is what is the best thing about being a part of the Star Trek Universe. Is the best thing you. Being a part of. The Star Trek Universe. Well I I suppose to some degree Leaving Someone A. A mark in history I suppose I don't know. I don't know it's yes I. Think he definitely before without fans still remember you and they and they still want to see you must be pretty exciting also. Yeah Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So I, I guess I guess that's it You know and and It it. Just it really amazes me frankly you know this many years later there are. People new generations who say, Oh, I love that. Show you I. You know they weren't around in the sixties and early Seventies. But there. There's a whole new generation of people who turn this on So it's it's really be having been part of it is quite gratifying. And not only being part of it but being one of the few people in the world who can say they got punched in the face onscreen by William Shatner. Right. Right. All right. Well, Mr Pillsbury. Thank you so much for chatting with us today and sharing these stories with us. We appreciate your time and of course, live long and prosper as always. For taking the time it was. Yeah, it was fun doing this. Yes I wish you health stay as? Much for joining us today on trek told Okay thank you very much. That was our chat with Garth Pillsbury real inspiration to folks out there to stay busy and keep being. Creative Mirror Mirror was the debut of the Mirror Universe in star trek something that been revisited again and again and again, and always to the assignment of the fans it would. Be About thirty years though until it officially showed up again on television after that original appearance returning not in next generation but in deep space nine there, it will become a recurring element and we'd see it revisited again enterprise and discovery where we again visit these parallel dimensions with their mirror counterparts. But the one that I think I've enjoyed the most that. is on the screen and I've worn recommend for you guys. Today is the TNG Mirror Universe comics from w ninety W has also done some for voyager, but I think the next Gen stuff has been very strong so far in very enjoyable. So if you like comics, you're gonNA really like this take on the Mirror universe idea with the characters from. The next generation series I should also add that the original nexgen comic series from DC. Comics also did Amir Universe story arc written by I believe Michael Jan Friedman, but it was quite different from what you might expect in those issues. Picard had remained curious and the board have been storming the galaxy taking over planets and destroying whatever they felt like destroying. Those events led to the Mir crew of what was left of the enterprise to duct the normal universe crew in order to gain access to a car that had freed himself from the collective hoping to find a way to replicate that and save their universe. It's also. Part of the DC comics on T. and G. that Michael Jan Friedman had done. So basically, what I'm saying here today is read more comics especially when they involve parallel dimensions and as for the cloud minders well, it isn't one of the strongest episodes of Star Trek, but it almost got a second chance to come back to life. Manny. Coto the executive producer of Star Trek Enterprise had previously said he wanted to revisit the planet in the fifth season and take the crew to stratus. But obviously, that plan never came to fruition while would have been interesting to see the roots of Stratos and the cloud city and all that kind of stuff I really wonder where they could could've taken it episode besides just being a brief nod to the original series. Few of ideas of course, do let me know because I'd love hear some there and what you think would happen to this place before and after the enterprise visited thank you for listening to this week's episode of Trek untold if you haven't already please. Subscribe to this show you can leave her of you and rating we appreciate it very much. If you did you can also follow us on social media just look for toll on facebook twitter and instagram with over here for you there and of course, we'd like to hear thoughts about this week's episode. If you'd like to support this podcast, you can check out CNN dot com slash trick on told learn how you can keep our ship operating at full power and you can also check out some merchandise at peace spring dot com slash stores slash trick untold once again thank you to our sponsor triple fiction productions and shout out to Scott Ray. For Setting up this injury. You like the book this week's guest for a convention appearance autograph signing event Email Scott at Scott. Ray Sixty seven at AOL DOT com. This has been trick untold I'm Matthew Kaplowitz, and until next time fortune favors the bold.
Ep. 77. FSPCA Panel: Virtual Food Safety Training
"Hello, everyone and welcome to food safety matters the podcast for food safety professionals I'm Stacey atchison publisher, foodsafety magazine, and I'm here with Barbara, Van Renter him editorial director and Tiffany, May Berry, digital editor of the magazine. Today's episode will feature bars interview with a panel of the Food Safety Prevention Control Alliances lead instructors. That's F.. SPCA. For those of you who love an acronym much as we do. Who will discuss food safety training in the age of Covid were virtual. Is the only reality. They discuss training platforms, how virtual training differs from person training and what the future hold. For those of you who may not be aware spca is internationally recognizes the trusted source for curricula training programs and outreach for the prevention oriented standards of the Food Safety Modernization Act. Acronym alert. We want to thank our friend and previous guests on the podcast Kathy Gamba's. That was very well received episode twenty six, who is a member of F. S. P.. Steering Committee and most importantly. And most importantly. Regular listeners will appreciate an most importantly a member foodsafety magazine's editorial advisory board for spearheading today's discussion. So thank you, Kathy. and. Speaking of virtual before we start recording today, we got notification that this year's IFP conference going virtual. So, to get more information on the three day event that spent that being held October Twenty Six of the twenty eighth visit, their website food protection dot org where you can get all the details. Thank you Dave Tharp. I'm not going to say we were waiting or anything. TAP TAP TAP You know. One. Of the things that I miss most about conferences is getting to meet our food safety matters audience. So you yes, you all Yo. Ever since we started the podcast, it was always such a sweet surprise to have people come up to the booth or case sessions wherever she might be and have you tell us that you listen to podcasts and share your experiences. Maybe what your favorite episodes were or what you found most supportive about the podcast. So we miss you guys we really do. So maybe until we can get back on the road again. Maybe you can drop us an email at podcast at foodsafety magazine Dot Com that's podcast. Atom always likes me emphasize that. So y'all know podcast at Foodsafety magazine, Dot? com. So, we can get to know you better. We can't take a picture with you or give you sticker. Or Button, but Maybe, we could. I could always send you a sticker. Anyway. You send us an email. All right. Now. At long last it's time. For the news. US health officials have named onions from Bakersfield California based Thomson International as a source of an ongoing Salmonella Newport outbreak that previously had no known source but was associated with nearly four hundred illnesses in thirty four states. Thompson international issued a voluntary recall of their red yellow, white and sweet yellow onions shift since May first of this year. Onions were distributed to wholesalers, restaurants, and retail stores in all fifty states Washington DC and Canada. And outbreak with a similar genetic fingerprint is also being investigated in. Canada as of August second one, hundred and twenty illnesses in seven Canadian provinces have been confirmed. Canada was the first to identify onions as the source of the outbreak. I'm just happy that I grow my own onions. That's all. I. Know I yeah. Yeah. Well, so Canada but Barbara, you said that, Canada's first a lot. They they often point the finger I and identify the source I see in. The pointing the finger and yet you put the Kyw Bash on me seconds and good thing for our South Park fans blame Canada. No. I say they should say give Canada the credit. Yes well, candidate gets some credit here the credit for being the first. So it is interesting that there many times the first. but we caught up pretty quickly on this one though. So I guess it's still ongoing though a little bit right So we'll keep an eye on that one. What they what they're investigating. They don't know what caused the contamination of the onions so. Okay the actual source on. All right. In a Webinar last week about the twenty leafy Greens s take action plan the US Food and Drug Administration announced a new protocol for the development and registration of antimicrobial treatment for pre. Harvest Agricultural Water. This new testing protocol was developed by experts at FDA Center for food safety and Applied Nutrition, and the EPA and is intended to help companies develop data on the effectiveness of their products in inactivating pathogens like E. Coli or Salmonella in pre harvest. Ag Water. According to FDA, there are currently no registered antimicrobial treatment products that are authorized to control microorganisms of public health significance for use on agricultural fields or for treatment of irrigation water systems or ponds. EPA approval of this protocol means that companies may use the data developed using the protocol to support registration of new treatment products or amendments to current product labels for use against foodborne pathogens and pre-harvest ag. Water. The development of this new testing protocol is consistent with FDA's commitment to a new era of smarter food safety and fulfils one of the action items in the twenty twenty leafy Greens s tag action plan. So I was sticking around The scientific literature because I was surprised that there weren't any registered. Products for pre harvest treatment. And what I realized is there are some real challenges treating water pre harvest on the closer you get to harvest. The stricter standards are you don't want a lot of residual chemicals on the food it can have negative effects on the product sensory attributes on the environment and on human health. but some of the. Treatments that have been tried that have been used post-harvest like chlorination or ozone peroxide. A lot of times the microbes are. Protected on the produce either in Kravis says sewer just the item. Well maybe they're just intrinsically part of it right? Because you know there's so much water and produce I mean it's part of it. So what I found, and this is almost twenty year old article that Barbara I really just want to say thank you because you really just now answered my primary questions on this like you know I I was surprised to there wasn't anything. So thank you for that. Really. The article that I found now, Trevor Susilo was PMA now but when he was at UC Davis, he wrote an article and we can put a link to this in our show notes it's it was published in two thousand one but some of the things are Some of these things are still applicable today, but it said natural plant surface contours natural. Harvest and trimming wounds and scuffing can be points of entry. For the microbes into produce, but they can also be safe harbors and so when the microbes are protected, these post-harvest treatments that I mentioned like the chlorine and on. Our. Ineffective come. and. So it this is a real Mrs Aerobic Challenge. So I'm just curious about I wonder what people are doing now because if you're a backpacker, you take the little. Eyedropper of chlorine and put that in the water or insure filter. So I just thought that was interesting well I guess it gets to you know the fact of some of the commentary about this is the fact that. You know FDA officials are not able to get out and take samples from the from the farms. People are not allowing them access to to the water on farm. So they're not able to do welcome complete investigations so. You know we're we're sort of left. Without as much information. So hopefully, they hopefully, this will produce some results so. Progress. And now last but not least this my favorite story for today. General Mills Ban Pillsbury has announced that a variety of their refrigerated cookie and Brownie dough products are now safe to eat raw. The products are marked with a special seal on the packaging. Pillsbury refined their process now using heat treated, flour, and pasteurized. Other than that. The brand says it still uses the same recipe that consumers have become accustomed to. To clear up any confusion about this new product line and what makes their products safe to eat raw pillsbury does answer some frequently asked questions on their website and they also list all of the specific products that are safe to eat raw. So we'll share linked to that in our show notes today. This just made me so happy. You don't have to roll the dice anymore. Right I mean look it's all fine I would love to be able to say I could I could. Resist. I cannot resist cookie dough. Way And I'm sure I'm not alone and so relief for parents all around that they can. Now you know, let their kids have the fun treat of some cookie dough. Without worrying and the fact that I think this marks. I Dunno I think significant move for AH label of safety raw I mean it's really educating consumers in the right way I would say that for parents who were going to give us to their kids, they need to make it into a teaching moment that. They have to look on the label and make sure it says safe to eat raw before they do that. So they don't get the. So the kids aren't under the impression that all cookie dough is safe to eat raw. Just. Saying. Anyway a good day ahead to rain on your parade, their stay sir. I made me so happy. Because you know I mean there have been lawsuits right I. mean this is this is. We. WON'T WE WON'T GO DOWN All. But yes, this is this is a big improvement. This is I think a a major step. So Gay Gay Pillsbury and General Mills. Good move. You can read these stories and more on food safety magazine, Dot Com, and if you're not already, you can follow all of our updates on facebook twitter and Lincoln just search for Food Safety magazine. Or right now, it's time to pull up a chair and join the roundtable discussion on how the Food Safety Preventive Controls Alliance is the challenges of all virtual training in the age of Covid. The panel of F. Spca lead instructors includes Connie land is fisk northwest regional extension associate for the Produce Safety Alliance Amanda Evans. Laura. Principal Food safety consultant, and compliance. Specialists With Hassle Mentor and Charles and Michael Kayla I. Don't think they'll mind me doing this since they reference often the fact that they're twins who are both managing members of food safety guides. It was great to talk to these guys I learned more about. Managing these virtual platforms than I ever wanted to know right it's good but it's good that. You know these types of trainings and information sharing can still take place even though we can all get together. well, this training has been pivotal in is pivotal in in meeting the goals of physical, which is prevention and educating I and so on. So getting this type of training is is imperative finding new ways to complete the training. In our virtual are now completely virtual reality. Is. Very important. All right. Are you in your chair pulling up that chair? Here we go. Now it's time for the interview. I I'd like to walk them all of you to the podcast today. Really looking forward to talking about. How Training has really evolved during this time both for food safety, preventive controls, alliance, and other kinds of food safety training because now we're in this new normal, and so we we've had to adjust. So I'm interested to to hear what you have to say about that. So I wanted to start by asking the four of you what types of courses have you taught virtually and what are your favorite platforms to use? Amanda why don't we. Start with you. Thank you. My main choice has been in the last couple of months has been zoom but prior to that, I did use a different platform which worked quite well, but didn't have a faith.' At Zoom head and probably the the mice common Kohl's is at I'm trying is differently that if it's Pacey a human foods pot to Kohl's, but I have been training that course for the last threes eventually anyway. So it wasn't really a massive jump, the May to going to these new will because I had been doing previously anyway and as a whole. nother suite of courses Relating to the Hesse Principles and application internal auditing. Allergen management a whole different ones but my mind one is definitely the the pot to in the human feats pay secure Kohl's. What about you? Charlie. I've. Led virtual courses for EVA's VP. The preventive controls for human food PC QA course. And also other courses like I just did a hassle refresher the other day. and. The platform that I've been using has been zoom I did experiment with some other platforms before like gotomeeting another one that was based in the UK the name is escaping me but ultimately I ended up settling on Zoom I do have a backup platform a google hangouts because I use Google a lot and that's pretty reliable, but it doesn't have the features that I like zoo. So. Both of you Have have mentioned zoom. Are there particular features that you really like that help you engage with the with the people taking the course? I definitely think that. Bang Apple to. The camera is very often very important during a coal. If you can say somebody's face while you're training them. You can then judge way they need promotion that you talking about where they are understanding the concepts whether they board or not say you're really looking for engagement. said. My big thing is really having that camera on. But the other faces around I tend to use the handwriting fate because we do have that The fights to camera on. The chat box differently and the ability to pull people in rooms. But probably, my favorite feature is being out of record decision because my previous platform lake to live. You're able to record it, but it didn't Convert it to an easy format that you could look in pay for that. You could Dan guys threw lighter. Wrong. I mean. Michael. My identical twin brother he's here. And we both have used it with you know a number of features that we really like You know we really like the chat feature and being able to you know just on the fly poll people with questions being able to create polls in advance as useful. But the features a little bit limited, but it is useful and we do use it. The breakout rooms is really great that was for us overcoming one of the chief problems with doing a virtual course and I've been really happy with it I'm there are limitations to some of the features that that we like is not you know the the perfect platform but so far it's the best one and and those are features that we really relied on, and maybe we'll talk about some more over the course of the women are sure up Michael do you have anything to add? Yet just screen sharing although that's fairly common in most every video conferencing platform available screen sharing opens the world wide. Web. For basically you know demonstrating showing illustrating examples says, screen sharing is probably the feature that I I appreciate most in the video conference, conferencing, platform, and Fortunately, that sounds pretty popular and also appropriating the different reactions that are available and zoom So there's there's a thumbs up in an applause at appropriateness and letting the audience know that they can use those frequently for me. The biggest biggest challenge in with these tools is keeping folks engaged and so finding ways to do that whether it be. Through backdrops or reactions or any kind of engagement through the platform. I'm a proponent. And Connie. What sorts of the courses have have you been able to teach virtually? So the produce safety alliance, we have Dacoven nineteen created a temporary remote training policy for the PSA training course. So we're working with our PSA trainers across the country and around the world to be able to continue offering the PSA grower training. Even during these times when folks have to social distance and we can't meet face to face. So we've been using zoom as the others mentioned and trying to really incorporate a lot of those built in tools like breakouts polling that were already mentioned reactions the non verbal feedback so you could ask simple yes no questions and get that feedback. Right there as Amanda mentioned, we also require that our attendees have their videos on and that we monitor them throughout the whole course for participation. So all those tools have been really important to all our trainers. Some of our trainers have gone beyond that and inserted polling throughout their courses or even use tools like annotations in zoom have been really helpful, and then a lot of others have used tools that are outside of zoom. So as was mentioned before maybe Google docs or outside websites like a hoot and many meter just anything we can do to kind of live in up that alday training. So. I'm I'm curious about this This next question, I'm going to ask you. Amanda. You mentioned that you have been doing trainings virtually for years now but. For the rest of you, how much of an adjustment was a to? Convert an in person training to one that was completely remote learning may know how my college age kids have. Maybe not so well adapted to the remote learning this spring. So just curious about how you know what did it take to pull that all together. Sure others Charlie in some ways. It's made policies that we might have been a little bit more loosey Goosey on in an in person format a little bit more rigid. because. It's so much more important to take additional measures. Make sure the people are engaging. And and so in a way, we're actually asking more from participants in the in the virtual format. one of the first things that Michael I did when we switch over to doing these virtual courses and we had been in the habit of doing a lot of virtual stuff because as consultants, we consult people virtually all the time that's like part of our whole model we go on the cloud and work with clients around the world so it wasn't huge transition for us but for Transitioning the person format to the virtual format for a full chorus, which could be twenty hours we the first thing that we did was we sat down and wrote out our policies because we needed to be very clear. To the people that are GonNa be in the course we also need to be very. Aware ourselves of what we need to do in order to deliver a course to the standard that we want in a virtual format and and so that was really great starting point and from there really Gallus experimenting on Zoom and and and with other APPs like hoot which Connie mentioned and really helped develop the course from their. Can Use of. You know specify some of the policies that you think. Are maybe a little more stringent now. Osha for example Whether or not I'm going to issue a certificate So I've incorporated a final exam before I was actually sort of against final exams. I thought you know what you know the it creates a lot of anxiety and defeats the purpose of you know that we're here to learn but with the with the training online and making sure that people get it I, switched over and feel like that's important. And for other stricter policies it includes any other policies would be. You know getting that direct feedback from people whether it through chats you know like I I mentioned that I do polls on the fly where I'll go vice sense that people aren't paying attention or. That I to assess people see if they really got it I'll be throwing out questions is Amy Chapman the response or give me a thumbs up and if I'm not getting those responses or getting lots questions like Oh, can you repeat the question I'm going to throw into suspicion whether or not they're actually participating but there there are some dangers doing all that because sometimes people might. Be Struggling with material, and that's why they're asking me or maybe English is not their first language and so assessments can be tricky like that. But I've put a lot more focus on the assessment and making sure that they can demonstrate to me that they're getting the material I'll try to come up with some other good strict examples but that's all I came out the top of my head. And I I can pick up where he left off actually and say that with by incorporating Google docs were able to see people contributing or participating in real time, and we did not have that Pencil and paper in our in person formatted classes, and so that is at a new layer of visibility into people's understanding or at least they're at minimum their participation in the activities. I think that's a great idea with that too I've I haven't really done the. Google. Doc. About differently have a use Google foams with I submit their. Activities through Google forms but I really liked that idea of you know if you've got a logic reap to be Abba to actually get them to contribute to that one document. Yeah absolutely I'm bill Michaels said about that is we realized real quick that because we made a Google doc version of the exercise workbook for people in the class to us and the first time I did that I realized Oh my God I need one. We need one of these documents, every breakout room because we want groups to work together and it. Doesn't necessarily help of everybody's on the same document. So for our trainings, we start incorporating a google doc for each group or each breakout room, and we can arrange those google docs on a large monitor that we have and just see them all working buzzing like bees on Google docs at the same time. So we can see WHO's participating who's not there are certain. New Policies that we create around that but that that really helped does Track, people. into at on that, we'll stop building on each other in a second year but. You can use version history in Google docs to also see where where people have participated in win So there is a degree of granularity you can dive into to evaluate participation. Unfortunately, they don't make trend reports available either trend reports relate more to like who's who's viewed the document whose commented on the document. But but you can't see generally where people have participated. So that's a really nice feature that comes on Google docs as well. Connie for for your work with. The produce safety. trainings. How long did it take? Your group to get everything to go virtual. It took us a couple of weeks to really hammer out those policies I think that. So important to have very clear we have such a large cadre of trainers that it was really important to us that we had that groundwork laid before we threw them all out into trainings, and then on top of that, we offered an office hour once a week. So if someone was new to zoom afraid of teaching zoom, you know a lot of attended zoom. Meetings Webinars, but hosting a meeting and trying to juggle all that goes into. That is a whole nother story. So there is a lot of trainer support in the first couple months, and now it's more of a one on one basis when when folks have additional questions or they want to figure out how to do something in Zoom but the first step was definitely laying out those policies and making sure that we were still going to be. Giving out a high quality training. That that we could feel confident that the growers attending that training were getting the information they needed to comply with the produce safety rule. Now. Did you have to go? Were you doing everything in person prior to that and then convert? Yeah. That's correct. So the grower to the PSA growing. The policy was that they were only allowed to be given face to face It's important for trainers to understand their audience and a lot of our audience needs that face to face. They need that connection. They need that chance to ask questions on. They also benefit a lot learning from each other in the classroom and we lose some of that in zoom because they can't see each other. You don't have those opportunities to chat during breaks you know I I heard during introductions that you grow blueberries blueberries to here. I have a question you. We don't get that in zoom room so it's just different, but it's important if our trainers understand who their audiences, they can still tailor that remote course to meet their audiences needs. I think with that Connie that that importance a before I have that mandatory policy everyone has the camera on. which also allows are the clause members to see each other. So I that sought of it with zoom works really well. But it all comes down to obviously the technology that that person is. Having may may computer old whatever at the time and that certainly is a challenge because we have a lot of growers that are in very remote locations. They don't have great Internet, our bandwidth and so that certainly a little to teaching via zoom especially since we require that they keep their cameras on that does take up a lot of their internet. Company I wanted to ask have you noticed some improvement in engagement with the participants taking your course? I mean that. That seems to be really important for. your training. I think over the last few months, what we've seen is the trainers have become more confident and they're starting to use more engagement tools and so naturally were seeing. The growers are having a better experience. We're starting to see some comments on the evaluations that come back to show that So that's been very positive. So you said that before you weren't doing anything virtually. So how much of a jump has it been to make all of your course materials available electronically happened the difficult transition no. So for the produce safety alliance, grow training course, all our trainers already had the slides. So that makes it really easy to to just present those in zoom. The same way they would do in a classroom and we also still require. That every attendee have a printed manual. So that has been a challenge because we have to then get those shipped across the country or turn to other countries if that's for the attendees are but they have that manual right in front of them. So they've got the slides on their screen and zoom, and then they've got the manual open in front of them So there hasn't been a challenge in that respect. That's great Charlie, you mentioned that you and Michael had to. kind of make copies of of different exercises in the workbooks for the different breakout rooms who had How are you providing training materials to your participants for your courses? Yeah. So in a couple of ways one we will share a digital pdf copies of the Exercise WORKBOOK and the model food safety plan that will be working on and we requested that they print those have them ready to go before the training starts. for the Google doc that that's a link that goes directly to document and it's. Link with an expiration. So they have access to that for some amount of time after the course and then expires. there's a couple ways that we can transfer documents to them. Sometimes, if it's a small class, we might just do through email, but otherwise, we might do it through an expired Google link or could be a dropbox transfer, which is actually served just found out about it. It's pretty cool as real easy. Just quickly transfer files to people. but we also encourage people to buy the hard copy of the participant manual. Our policy is if you register two weeks or more ahead of the training date. We rarely were we we will actually include in the price the the hard copy of the manual and have it shipped to you. it has been a bit of an issue where we have lead sign ups and we can't do that. So in which case would use digital version but With virtual course, you know I really want their attention front and center on the course on you know each other and not on juggling and managing like a whole bunch of windows and files and stuff like that. So for me having a hard copy in front of you helps reduce that diffusion of the attention span across all these windows. So that's worked for me, and that's what and Michael, and that's what we've been encouraging Sakani what. What's your opinion on the sweet spot of the number of participants? Yes. So for our for the PSA grow trading remote delivery, we encourage our trainers to keep the numbers to twenty or less, and again, most of those are taught by a training team, not just an individual trainer So that Kinda helps with both the trainers fatigue, and also the audiences fatigue hearing that one voice for multiple hours. So if most of those remote trainings are much smaller than that I, think a lot of growers. Want to wait until they're offered face to face again, they they are not looking forward to that remote delivery model and so a lot of folks are putting it off till fall. Also now we're in the growing season. So this is naturally our slow time There are fewer courses taught in the summer and those that are tend to have lower Attendance. Numbers Anyway. Now, Connie you had mentioned about using a course monitor. Can you describe for our listeners what that looks like? So for example, if a and I were teaching a PSA Grower Training Course Wall I'm teaching module one Amanda could be monitoring everyone for participation. She could be paying attention to the chat and interrupting me when there's a question, she could make sure that everybody's video is on and they're still looking at their screen and if they're not, she could send him a private chat to say something going on Are you having technical difficulties basically staying on top all that other stuff so that I can focus on teaching and? Then when she's teaching module to, I would take over those monitor duties. Now, if I was just teaching alone or if I'm in an office that has other staff anybody else could serve in that monitor role, they don't have to be a PSA trainer. So for example, if I had a secretary or a student worker for the summer, they could also feel that monitor role, but it's basically just making sure that there's someone dedicated to you know all that other juggling so that the person presenting doesn't have to worry about it. So for the rest of you do you. Traditionally use monitors. Do you back each other up or you fall commented Charlie Michael and Amanda that sometimes it's just you. So how do you try and keep on top of making sure that participants are really paying attention and not multitasking? Well I think you can't completely stop that but if you keep the engagement with. The help to do something every say three to five minutes is kind of the area that I look at with the having. To engage with, you're asking them a question on camera, and again because I have such a Cape may not low. Everyone's got a camera so you can have. That direct. Conversation by suffice so. You can asan that you can ask them to do something in chat you can ask them to do an activity. I put a time limit on. Doing activity so there's a there's a clock on the screen at Thi- can say that and they know that have it submitted because if you Do the activities as part of especially, the pot to human feeds calls. That I get this to ticket because they're not demonstrating that they understand the information that they went through a pot one. So I think there's that's probably my biggest thing is. That engagement getting people to do stuff. You know every three to five minutes and they've just. Writing something on the whiteboard. That's another great feature of Zuma's will. You can actually get them to to put the thoughts on the whiteboard. And they have to do that. So that works quite well. On our end Yeah. It's kind of like what? Amanda was saying where we're peppering them with assessments attention checks I've been in some Virtual presentations and things where. They might do an attention check where they say you what's your favorite color and what I try to do is you know I think that I can come up without without having been paying attention. So I tend to come up with some kind of attention check that's related to what we're covering right now or what we've covered in the last few minutes, and it can be really evident right away they were paying attention or not or if they're experiencing some kind of issue that maybe. I didn't notice before. So So yeah. So we often use the the nonverbal cues nonverbal communication. You know like, Hey, everybody got this and do I get. Can I get a thumbs up you know and and that is just a small amount of engagement but just enough to deter them hopefully from trying to multitask and you know when I first started this all learned from experience because I when I first started I remember looking at my screen somebody who's just going through their mail. Not Email. Their mail. Letters. And all that So yeah. So just from experience you know you kind of figure out when you're doing these virtual courses, what works and what doesn't and over time you kind of refined otherwise I think just give up doing virtual courses. There's and this is Michael I often find that creating a sense of familiarity between folks also helps with engagement. Because then you can it is so easy to lose people just by virtue of them being fairly anonymous if you're checking your. The list of folks on your on your call and you're saying, okay, next question is. John because you spotted John in the list, you know to me that that at. This sort of randomness for me doesn't necessarily replaced familiarity with John. John's last name John in John Likes to do and relating things to what John, likes to do and as I frame a question or oppose scenario and creating a sense. Using a certain portion of your time for each for each day to create some degree of familiarity with the folks in in class will help make material more relatable and rise and help keep engagement. That's pretty obvious. Must folks sure. How do you do the assessments before you issue a certificate? You need to make sure that the participants actually learned the information that you were training them on. So what are some of the tools that you're using? to assess whether the participants are really understanding the material. Amanda you WanNa Start. Show. So I think we've said this before. Using Google docs and Google foams for me. Works really well. especially with Google foams because again, we can put a time limit and I think having a time limit for the activities really important and you can then generally. Extend by five minutes if you need to Bay, they'll be participants to finish activities really quickly, but they'll be others that required to baby longer. So. The beauty of Google foams is I can have that happen just in a portion of my screen and I can see when the answers are coming in and I can do a quick review of their answers and. then. What Google forms does is it does as really nice graphs around you know what people answered. So, then I can shed is results the class can't say who? His answers what but The Nas Pie graph cable fifty percent of you agreed to this ain't so. Great to that. The crate dancer is exploited. You say this and then that engages more conversation. So I find Google forms works really well with that and the two other activities probably the more indepth ones baying that this is that if his pay CI Kohl's fajita feeds is the doing the hazard analysis and doing the management activities by says, is I have people fill out a word document? And these oversee can be competitive The Google doc as well, and they feel that out and then I that back to me, and they cosette to the mind concepts for May, people really need to now had to do especially that hazard analysis because that informs everything going forward. So you really need to get that rot so they'll put that on a word document and then email that back to me. So that's kind of what's worked for me. Some of the other. It will just be available. We'll have a discussion an IPAD. Discussion with all the mocks on and people can jump in and say what they experienced. A is fishy when we start talking around product recall have you ever been through a ray coal and even from a point when we're doing this section on physical hesitates, we do the recapping pot to a low is ask have you ever had something in your feed that shouldn't have been a said generally, people will start talking about. Business what they've experienced, but then I like to say what about you personally have you ever been to a restaurant and found site net shouldn't have bay overboard a product. That gets letting gauge -ment upper up again. So there's a couple of different methods at I prefer to use. How about you? Connie. So for the pro safety alliance grow training. We do not have a formal assessment some of our training teams use a pre and post test for for reporting purposes and they're doing that using either zoom polls or aquatic survey, and to keep it anonymous they can assign if they're using tricks to keep it anonymous they assign each participant a code number so that they can put the same number on their pre-test and post tests to Lincoln. Interesting Okay Michael. I use Google. Forms as well. Charlie's going to speak I think in greater depth about cahoots which I'm a huge fan of but on Google forms I, guess at one thing I wanted to mention was that I like shuffling the question order when you can do that through settings going presentations, you can select shuffled question order. So if you are concerned about people communicating about what their answers are that's a quick work around. and yeah I I am it Charlie night both have teaching credentials we. Another lifetime ago science math. And we had experienced giving his standardized tasks to two kids K. through twelve and I just never been a really big fan of standardized testing and I think especially with folks in the food industry where maybe you know part, they went that direction because they didn't like sitting at a desk answering standardized tests. So I often like to give people an opportunity to it, and this is an advantage of having a small class. have an opportunity to give me really like an oral exam. Result at. So I sit down some they communicate to me in their own way, their understanding of the content, and if they can do that, I'm not really caring too much what what kind of test score they get but certainly having test score is something to refer to I. Guess I just don't always think that as being the best form of assessment it's just really convenient for especially large class sizes where you just don't have the time or opportunities to have that face to face But but normally if if I do see, some people failing in the in the assessments. Pull them aside that the end of the course and ask them to talk with me and communicate to me their understanding of certain concept's, and they just can't do it there. Then clearly, we have a problem for on my side for the teaching and Learning. So that's my approach. I. Think the other things we have to we have to remember to is look what is the purpose of our coal? What is it that we want people to do? And generally it's it's not to be a stand there and answer fifty questions thrown at you by the FDA if when I come have a look at your food safety plan or something like that is to be able to show that you can actually put together a food safety plane as it relates to the the Pacy Q. I qualification. So I was when I'm looking at how I, what type of assistant methodology I'm going to use. Have to come back to, okay. What is it that we want people to walk away we? Do I want them to be at a sigh off the top of the head. Had to do XYZ. Door want a different outcome. So that really drives my why assistant methodology is Western. Now do you each that some part of virtual training? Will Continue. into the future I know Connie you mentioned in the fall that growers are looking forward to getting back to in Person Training will you? A component of of something virtual or will be completely in person. The intention is to go back to all face to face growing trainings We also have an online option. So folks can take the course over three week period through e Cornell So that's another option but the intention is that this remote training policy is just temporary during covid nineteen. I Know Amanda. You mentioned that you've been doing virtual for a number of years Will you do any in person training once things quiet down. Look I if it's a in half coal stiffly and I have done that over the last. Twenty s anyway but my model more business model now is virtual and that's really to Thailand to those people who. Don't have the time to travel or cannot afford to do the travel said that the May me works quite well and I'm probably at the point in my career, I'M A. Little Bit Cranky now that I really don't. Want to be traveling all over the countryside. Anymore I like sleeping in my bed in tope AIDS. I think that's a young person's guy. So Charlie what do you and Michael Think about Do you think there will be some component virtual going forward? Yet you we've made being virtual guard. Virtual consulting has been a big part of business model. So I definitely see us doing a lot more virtual courses in the future. It's hard to say what's going to happen with a how covid nineteen is going to change the you know we think as normal and more and more people are there could be more demand for virtual courses. I. Have a suspicion that's GonNa be the case but we've had so much experience with You know industry professionals just really value the in person training ics term doing doing both in Michael and I are you know we're? You know we're we're we're okay with that right now way you know the way that the position that we're at right now and where we're at in life but ultimately, we do see doing a lot more virtual horses Michael where you have thought about that. Yeah I also like sleeping in my own bed and you know flying I mean, especially flying right now for the foreseeable future doesn't seem appealing at all and But the real trick is how how do you get a lot of folks especially where Internet bandwidth bandwidth is just not available you get them sherm sign on for remote learning and that's going to be a real struggle. I think that's GONNA struggle every time and Yeah, but the but the more that we can. Teach Online I think the better for everybody I mean it saves a lot of events Could you know for how much a company might spend on my hotel and meals? You could add one or two more people to a training. And insurance rather see more informed people making food than me having to stay at the Holiday Inn. So. So, as we wrap up today. Now Unfortunately Connie you are going to have to pick just one but I'm. With lots of lots of Food safety managers in their plants trying to train people. Doing. A lot of the training virtually. What one piece of advice would you give someone who's trying to put together? A training program. That's only online. You WanNA start conning. Sure. So. My one piece of advice to our training teams is to practice before the day of your training. I think that the teams that have done that have had a much better experience and the growers that have attended the training of had much better experience because they've worked out all the kinks ahead of time they know how how they're gonNA use the different engagement elements they've practiced it, and so everyone's a lot calmer day of the event. Oh, great advice. How about you, Amanda? Building, on what Connie just said, baying, very familiar with the technology and that that plays into that whole practicing as well. If you the tools that you're going to be using, that's one thing that you're not going to be stressing about is ahead of us, he's a widow I find these spot nor headway drama documenting to zoom. How do I use Google Google docs yet if he can be familiar with all of these tools? It's GonNa. It's just one listen you have to worry about then you just have to worry about the participants not understanding the technology but insane net zoom's got that great feature that people can get on before the coast and Make, sure everything's GonNa work and familiarize them familiarize themselves with the platform, which is something I carry Joel. My participants to do. I also say that Zim just kinda got an email yesterday around because there's been a lot of questions around the security that you now sit up by a session that doesn't include a password or waiting room. So I need to go in and check. We'll have his at a fake the participant wanting to have a bit of a test run. Should have to might themselves familiar with the? With the Lai added the classroom, the virtual classroom. Good Point. Yeah for me I mean doing this virtual course I know this might is hyperbole but you know, I, I, remember hearing a story about somebody watching a space launch and saying I just watched ten thousand things go wrong right I mean in a way I feel like the best advice I can give his have a plan. So that means you make an investment and and looking into what it takes to lead a successful virtual course because if you think you're gonNA wing, it you probably be disappointed I know I was all we can do that the first pc Q. I course the I did the Michael and I did together Was it utter disaster? So. So So you know have a plan making investment in and just be ready to make mistakes and have a piece of paper next you and take notes every training, I do I have no book and I'm making a toll do that differently next time? Okay. Maybe do gifts or. So it's always something that's improving I. Don't know if that will ever stop but Yes we'll have a plan. Because there's nothing worse than a training going wrong. got like. Nineteen hours. Right. And I, think having that plane I think having that plan for backup with what happens when your Internet connection drops out how are you going to the students to say look sorry it's having a disaster here. All Apple, how just gone up in the House As a thunderstorm of head, all of these things happen and I think at the beginning tally had said having that backup. Platform to use just in case if if zoom filed for whatever reason, what's your backup platform? So I actually send is details at to papal before the coal stotts. Decide this is what backup plan will pay. At a at. Something as simple as is at quote appearing or you might use. Google hangouts I. think that's what Charlie said that right Tell Markle US that could be an option I. think they've changed a Nymex you think they call it the Cape. Now. Google hangouts. KYW matlock's Michael. I actually did a little experiment. We're what if my Internet went out my house I couldn't do in my Home Office, and I couldn't do the presentation identified the Zoom App and I was able to have the the presentations in slides and on my google drive and I was actually able to deliver the full P Q I training. On my phone. Using cellular using cellular so I don't even need Wifi. So so that was really great thing that we discovered that we were like, okay. We feel a little more confident. You know things really go haywire. So you're backing up had the backup. Yeah. That's the secret. Yeah. Absolutely agree with. Any last thoughts, Michael. No I agreed with with all the participants. And I having having a backup for each part of? The presentation would be important. So the from a technology standpoint. Obviously, if you need to step out having a second person there to to support, you is valuable the prime perfect storm that I've seen has been people who maybe their English is is not very strong and they are having technical difficulties So prepare for the worst how are you going to communicate? With somebody WHO's communication skills are limited and whose technology is failing them and maybe it means cycling them to the next training as was mentioned earlier or maybe it means taking a break and if you can take a break, how does that affect other people's schedules? So maybe think that through first before pulling the plug or hidden, go on a new idea you have. Great. Well. Certainly, we have talked about a lot of challenges and the evolution of training and we'll have to see. How things look down the road how much virtual? Stays as a part of. What we do for training in the food safety area. I WanNa thank the four of you for joining me and our technology was successful today with getting all a few on Certainly appreciate the four of you taking the time. To talk with me today. Thank goodness. Yeah thanks for inviting me. Thanks very much. Have Me. Thank you. We want to thank all our guests today. Connie land is Fisk Amanda, Evans Laura Charles and Michael Kayla for joining us on the podcast today and thanks of course to all of you for listening you can find links to all the references we've mentioned in the episode in our show notes, you can access those and your podcast player or on our website at foodsafety magazine Dot com slash podcast then fine episode seventy-seven. please. Don't hesitate. Early rescue again, send us questions and suggestions are just a hi, how are you to podcasts at foodsafety magazine? Dot Com or post note on twitter late in or facebook. You can make sure that new and bonus episodes magically appear in your feet by clicking subscribe button. That's for today. Our next regular episode will post on August twenty fifth take good care of yourselves in those around you and we'll talk to you then.
42: "Coming to America" Week
"Hi and welcome to feedback with ear buds podcast arm of ear buds podcasts collective. I'm Maryelle your host and the founder of your butts. This episode covers the week of July twenty, three, twenty, four, twenty twenty. Ear Buds podcast collective is listening movement. We send an email every Sunday that contains theme and five podcast episodes on that theme. And each week's podcast picks are curated by a different person. Anyone can curate a list. Before, we start just to note that I'm currently on the road driving across the country. My current location is Minneapolis. Because I'm in a hotel recording. The sound quality may be a little off. Let's jump in. This week's newsletter and podcast sponsored by the dancing with bipolar podcast. More on this podcast later in the show. ON FEEDBACK WITH EAR BUDS I'll share our five podcast episode recommendations of the week and some information about the episodes. We'll also share some podcasts industry news. Patriotic shoutouts and then wrap it all up. I are ear buds podcast collective recommendations. This. Week's theme comes to us from Patrick Cox and is called coming to America. Here's why Patrick chose this theme. He writes hi my name's Patrick. Cox, and the theme I chose is coming to America I chose this, because everyone who migrate, said the US. Each of us has our own unique story to how? A great podcast listening and it's also a timely reminder. The America's an immigrant nation. Here are the episodes chosen by Patrick for this week's theme along with short descriptions of each episode. The first episode comes from the podcast called beginner and is called coming to America. It's twelve minutes long in this episode me should decide. She's not in Pakistan anymore and she's gotta find a way to belong. The, next episode comes to us from Homeland Insecurity and is called the department. It's thirty one minutes long. In this episode a nation is shaken after an unprecedented attack on the homeland and immediately searches for ways to regain control. The next episode comes to us from subtitle and has called in quarantine with Joe. Wong. It's eighteen minutes long. Joe Wong is a brilliant bilingual comedian in the US. He does stand up in his native China. He hosts a popular TV game show. Recently his comedy has become more political. He's confronting us. Racial tensions head on in quarantine. Joe Is writing a book cooking for his son and decrying virus related anti Asian hate crimes. The next episode comes to us from resettled and called arrival. It's thirty two minutes long. The LAUPHEIM family's arrival was highly anticipated. The local resettlement agency prep their home. The religious community was ready to provide support. The families US connection lived just down the street. Even with these support systems, resettlement was and still is not a straightforward clean cut process. The last episode of the week comes to us from scattered and is called Soya Andres. Autos PS. It's twenty eight minutes long. Chris's dad was a classy guy. Whenever, he met one of his sons girlfriends. He'd extend his hand. Give her a firm handshake, and say soy undress, I, to PS, which means I'm Andres is at your feet. Those are the episodes chosen by Patrick for this week's theme coming to America. Follow along with the discussion of this week's podcast episodes by using the HASHTAG coming to America. Each week in our newsletter are curator's have a chance to shout out something that they love or want to promote. It's called the Self Promo section. They can shout out a project. They're working on a company. They admire a movie. They really enjoyed really anything. Here's what Patrick wants to tell us about. He writes. At subtitle. My podcast were in the midst of a mini series on speech discrimination. We've asked five people from a variety of nations and backgrounds to tell stories of how they came to speak the way they do. The stories are full of self, delusion and misplaced assumptions leaving us with these questions. Why are we so judgmental about speech? And how might we address our biopsies? Since, we're on the road this week. We're skipping our usual podcast industry news section while there's a lot going on. We are on the go, so instead will direct you to our favorite resources for podcasts news as always make sure to check out. Sky Pillsbury's inside podcasting newsletter, which you can find out inside dot com slash podcasting. There's also pod. News Dot net the daily newsletter written by James Cridland and of course Bello collective, which does contain some podcasts industry news, but it's mostly recommendations and podcasts criticism from an amazing group of writers. That's Bello collective DOT COM. We'll be back soon with more podcasts industry news. Now time for our sponsors. Thank you to Don. Sharon the dancing with bipolar podcast for supporting ear buds this week. Dancing with bipolar, the story of Don's life living with bipolar disorder, and all the fun and sadness that comes along with this double edged sword. You can find dancing with bipolar wherever you listen to podcasts including CASS box, apple and stitcher We're super grateful to our patriots, supporters to Eliza Coal, Dan, Jarod Michael and the Retro Network. You can also become a patriotic supporter. Just go to Patriotdepot DOT COM slash ear buds podcast collective. You can support us for as little as two dollars a month and we give away some pretty cool things. Go check it out at Patriotair. Dot Com slash ear. Buds podcast collective. Make sure to head on over to our social media to find links to the episodes that we mentioned earlier in this episode where on twitter at ear, buds, pod, call and we're on instagram and facebook at ear buds podcast collective. You can sign up to receive guest recommendation email at ear. Buds podcast collective dot org. It goes out every Sunday night, and it contains the episodes that we mentioned up at the top of the show. The show is written and produced by me REO missing black. It's edited mix and designed by Daniel Terrific. Our newsletter is edited by ABC. Lonski. Our theme music is by Matsudo. We'll be back next week with more podcast recommendations. If you like what we're doing with our newsletter and the accompanying podcast, let us know by leaving a review on Apple. It helps people find the shope. Just go to rape this podcast dot com slash feedback. It'll take you to a browser where you can choose where you want to leave review. It's super easy. Thanks in advance. We'll catch you next week with more podcast recommendations until then stay safe and keep on listening bye-bye.
Behind-the-scenes: Post Reports
"Welcome to inside podcasting. This is many episode in which I chat with Kim Lyons the managing editor at inside dot com about my interview with Martine powers the host of post reports. If you haven't listened to that episode please go back and listen and then come back to hear this behind the scenes piece in either event enjoy our the latest episode is with Martine powers. Tell me a little bit about this interview. How did it go. What would you like to talk to. She was incredibly genuine and down to Earth. You get on the phone with these people she it was remote and so you're sort of making sure you're like testing testing and you know testing out your voice and during that period. She told me that she was nervous. Which knaw loved that because ah here I am so inexperienced. She's the adult in the room and for her to say that she was nervous. Maybe she said that to make me feel warrior. More reassured either rumbling though evidently worked definitely worked. She was just so real the whole time. I mean before departing she's like I have my phone balanced on on my knees. Were kind of laughing about that at one point during the podcast interviews she said you know. I gotta take off my sweater. I gotta get were comfortable like she. She was just very real you know she was. I mean she was buttoned up but I loved that she really just let herself be herself and I think that also is probably a function of the fact that one of the things she said actually in the podcast. Is that the podcast she loves the most are the ones where everything you're hearing is just real. You're hearing you're hearing. You're hearing the ladder you're hearing the the the authentic check moments and so and she just sort of personified that and it made me feel so comfortable. I really was grateful to her for that. Grant Akhund went through this episode. Thanks for listening to that guys. I hope you enjoy the mini episode this week. Next week. I speak with Madeline Baron the host of in the dark about her groundbreaking an award winning investigative show you can find this podcast. Wherever you find podcast you can find me on twitter at Sky Pillsbury. Thanks so much for listening
Post-Show: What It Was Like to Interview Shima Oliaee
"Hey. It's sky. Pillsbury the host of inside podcasting I'm popping into the top of this episode to give you a quick update at the end of last week's show in which I interviewed, Dolly. Parton America producer Shima only I mentioned that Shima was currently working on a few secret projects, and between then and now I have learned that one of those projects is about to arrive like Dolly. Dolly Parton America. It's a production from Jad Adam rods awesome audio and she must says quote. It's another investigative. Look at America and quote. Look for the secret project to be revealed either July ninth or tenth of Twenty Twenty that means that. If you're listening to this episode the day it comes out, you'll be able to listen to awesome audio secret project, tomorrow or Friday at the latest. Okay onto this week's post show episode in which I revisit my fourth grade infatuation with Dolly and reveal what it was like to interview the Brilliant Shima only. Hello and welcome to fight podcasting the show in which. Discuss their craft I'm your host Sky Pillsbury. This is a post show episode in which two very special guests will talk to me about last week's episode in which I interviewed Dolly Pardons America producer. Mo only if you haven't heard that episode, I recommend going back and listening to it before you listen to this one that way, our conversation may make a little bit more sense. Today on the show I have with me, the two people most likely to remember my obsession with Dolly Parton. My wonderful parents welcome to the show, mom and Dad Hey. Hi there. Thank you so much for saying yes. Welcome On this kind of show you guys get to ask me questions. I have the first question here ready to go all right dad. Right. Do you feel a part of dollars America? That is a really good question Yes, I think am I mean I must be one hundred percent because I'm a fan, so I think by default that makes me part of her America, because you know I know who she is. I adore her like so many others. Of course that begs the question like what is Dolly, Parton America, and I think one of the points that she made in last week's episode was that Dolly is sort of this prison for everyone else's story? And I'm not sure that I have a particular story to tell but I think that the aura surrounding Dolly is sort of like. Everyone can be part of it. No matter what walk of life you come from and so I guess in that regard. Be Part of Dolly Parton America. She talked about the feelings of otherness enduring during her show. Do you resonate with that at all? I probably don't if I'm being really honest and. That's because I am very privileged in my life, so you know I am female. I'm white. I've had opportunities that many many people don't get to have. I went to college. I got a good job after college. I sort of did the things that I expected I would do. Thus far in my life. But I think that the way that I can relate with that was what Shima said about how she and Chad are both first generation Americans and you are a first generation American, Dad. And so you know what it made me think, and even in the show, because during the show Jad talks about how her dollies Tennessee Mountain home, reminds his father of his home. Overseas, you know of course I couldn't help but think about our family home in northern Finland, so of course I thought about like the listener. Any listener to this doesn't know is that I grew up going to Finland with you every summer and you know spending many many many many days. Not Whole Lot to do kind of like the countryside of Finland in this tiny town with a population of eight hundred people, where almost no one spoke English, and then of course I would spend a lot of time in Helsinki as well where people did, but you know I remember the excitement that I had the day that you got your citizenship when we were living in Hawaii. I remember you wore a suit and that was a big deal because you were is most of the time. So. You know I remember that feeling, but I don't ever feel I can't say that I ever felt other, but I. Think I knew that you at times felt authored. What about you? Well I guess what I was wondering about is. Dolly is also a what I would call a country girl. you got to know people who were definitely from the country, not from the city. That's true. Maybe I speculate that that may have had something to do with your level of comfort with Dali. Oh. That's interesting. Also expressed some interest in Loretta Lynn during that time. I loved Laura Adeline and I think I I remember i. read the Book About Her. Was the book called? Coal, miner's daughter, I don't know. I did identify with those two, but I don't know I can't like point to a memory where I connected those two things myself. You Know My love for them like I. Really Loved Donna Summer at the same time. She's not from the country and I think honestly I think. They spoke to my infatuation with Glamour, and even though I knew that they were from the country. It's sort of like they were like these unimaginable. Creatures all three of those women. They were like such a shiny thing, and then I love the music and I love to dance, but I think that I always had an interest in people who are different than me, and that's why like when we were in the countryside in Finland like I could hang out with Vinnie me. Who is the violin player? You know for hours or make friends with the girl who lived across the street Rita, even though we. We didn't speak the same language, and like really enjoy those people because it was like exposing me to this completely different way of life. You know just a way of life that I wasn't familiar with and I think that in a way Dali Donna. It sort of showed me a completely different slice of life, but I really doubt I'd like to hear from you about your feeling like. Have you felt ushered in this country? Well. Yes, on the other hand. I was a great fan of country and Western by the way I. Obviously, I was an immigrant. it was a immigrant. That was welcomed though I must say with open arms. That's a big part of my life. At the same time. I had a very strong grounding in feeling like I, belonged also to Finland, so I was like to introduce you to that part of my life. Yeah, so I've been question about your feelings about Dolly. Was it more like she was relatable like a friend in a way or what's she more like an idol or like a crush? Because she was beautiful and had all those semin. Attributes shall we say and definitely an idol? And definitely a crash. I mean. She had at all, I mean just like. Mom You've told me that story about how when I was little and Mick Jagger is on TV and I came in the room, and I was too little to understand like who he was or like that he was this global rock star, but I looked at you and I said he's got everything and I think that's exactly how I felt about Dolly to like. She's got everything like she's got. You know she's got all the things like she I remember like she had some album. Maybe it was like. Like a foldout situation where she had like like pink slippers that had fuzzy tops, which they were high, heeled slippers and I know that that's like that's kind of more like coming back in now. Maybe but like at the time it was like the most incredible crazy thing I'd ever seen and her. The fact that hair changed like multiple times even on one album cover, she'd have a completely different Hairdo, and you know I'm sure. She was wearing wigs, but I had no idea about that at the time. I remember just looking at her clothes and her. She was like the the embodiment in my little nine year old nine. At that time, she was the embodiment of like femininity and Glamour. You know I think I'm sure there was some part of me. That just wanted to be that right right right. Do you think that? Her unembarrassed sort of embrace of her sexuality influenced. You know you as you grow up and gave you more confidence in being proud of who you are. I one hundred percent loved always that she was so out in front about her sexuality and her body. I think that's also what I loved about. People like Madonna. who like Madonna was rolling around on stage, wearing her wedding dress. At the first word big awards show that she was at and you know all of those things are moments for me definitely where I where I felt like. I can be proud of myself as a woman and I don't i. can walk a little bit of a line as long as it feels safe and comfortable for me, and I really admired that about Dolly I. Don't think it was till much later that I realized. That people made fun of her or that. She had become any kind of joke like I think that I took Dolly really seriously as a child. You did very serious series. Yes, I remember that distinctly. I mean staying maybe a couple of her songs at. Family camp that we went to. And I remember people were very blown away. But the passion you had about her. I remember specific people talking about that. Were they like smirking? Woman who particularly love Dali Talk to me about it and and told me how rate she thought you were now. Remember during that family workshop while you were singing. There were a couple of people sodas smirking in the background. Yes, and you got upset about it, and as felt extremely embarrassed them. They quickly understood that they were that. This was not correct and gaming in are very respectful of your performance. I'd like to ask you guys. What. How would you explain why people would smirk during that time like explain? This was sort of something they talked about during the show. Like why in some ways does Dali become the? Butt of the joke well because she was out out sexual not at all embarrassed about it for example in the building trades, there were something called Dolly Parton shells at newcomb. Guess what their shape was. Yes, I can right right right. This just was part of the culture. How did you feel when the show was being made when you heard about it i? I was over the moon excited like beyond in fact I remember I was on twitter and I saw opposed from either Jad. It wouldn't have been Chima 'cause I. Didn't actually I didn't know who she was at that time. So, is either from Jad or radio lab or something, and it had a picture of someone. Maybe it was Jad sitting in front of a monitor that had picture of Dolly on it, and it said like the caption was something like coming soon or something. Some kind of teaser didn't even say like exactly what it was, but you knew by seeing the picture of Dolly that this meant that they were making a show about Dolly and I mean I. Think I audibly gasped when I saw it. I was writing my newsletter that day and I remember being so excited to put this into my newsletter to let all my readers know that podcast about Dolly was coming and I think. Maybe potentially more than any other podcast. I plugged this podcast so many times because every single time I would see they continued to do that. Then they're sort of this gradual roll out of like you know the announcement, and then later on like the actual drop date and like I was i. mean talk about free. Like, every step of the way, I was writing about it, because I was just so personally excited and passionate at the idea that there would be a podcast coming out and at that time. I don't remember exactly when it came out, but I hadn't like started to reach out to people yet, and I wasn't even about that. It was just about. I get to listen to a podcast about Dolly Parton. It wasn't even about like having them on my show, or you know anything like that, yeah? I guess that leads to another question here. How did you then decide to interview Shema? So way that this started was that a confession I have to make is that I have not been radio lab listener, and so I wasn't really familiar with Jad or Shema I knew who was I had written about him in my newsletter, he had given talks and I had definitely written about him, and I knew of course. That radio lab was a well-known podcast. It just wasn't hard my listening diet, but I knew enough to know his name, and so when I reached out, I reached out to someone I knew at WNYC and. Asked about interviewing Jad. This is when I had listened to a few episodes. You know the season hadn't wrapped, but at least a few I knew enough to know. Okay. I WANNA. I WanNa talk to the people who made this podcast about how they made it so reached out to my natural question was can I interview Jad, and they said yes and. then. It was like a long slog of like trying to figure out when I was having scheduling issues, because I share a studio with my boss, who's Jason? Gala Canas and he has a podcast few podcasts. That he records in a studio and I sort of get lake the crumbs on the table like whatever whatever's leftover and so I have a lot of scheduling issues and jazz very busy, and you know the intentions were let's do it, and let's just wait until we I wasn't in a rush, so we kept sort of like waiting for the time that it would be actually almost had a time and then didn't work out. Anyway then around that time. Someone I know Eric Jones who also writes a newsletter actually and as a contributor to belo collective. And I only say that because that means that he and I are in a slack together, and so we talk sometimes, and I'm just really aware of his work. He interviewed Jad and I didn't know he was going to. And he interviewed Jadan. He did that sort of this story for Bella collective, and it was a great interview and people who are interested in this podcast should go and read it. And, I I was still like Oh. Okay well, that's fine, but then. I started thinking about the fact that here's this woman who's the producer on the show. She's probably doing a lot of the work. I knew enough then at that point to know that it was just her dad. I producers. Sometimes. Don't get the credit that they are do. It ends up being all about the host and all about the face and what I've learned just by. This business and talking to other creators is at the producer is often the host as well, but that the producers who are behind the scenes are often the ones who are doing the script writing doing the editing figuring out storylines figuring out questions you know coming up with an angle like in that situation it can often be much more of a partnership than a producer host, and one is somehow better than the other, so I went back to WNYC my contact and said. Said you know what I think I'd like to interview Shema. And of course that was still really hard to schedule because she was busy, and then she was on vacation. A much deserved vacation, and in fact, the interview we did for last week's episode was her first day back at work and I didn't realize that until I was talking to her, but she had just gotten off a much, deserved vacation, and was sweet about having scheduled it the her first day back so. I was really thrilled about that. Sounds Great. I think that's fascinating and really fortuitous as it turned out. Yeah really fortuitous. Normally when you for an interview, you're looking at the available information on someone who you're going to be interviewing. Was that difficult to do? with Shima because she is inevitably less in a public role than JAB. It was actually harder for me to research met for exactly the reason that you brought up. She's actually been I think if memory serves. She's actually worked in TV. There wasn't much there because again. She sort of behind the scenes in that scenario, so I did find I. do remember that I found because I. Do try to do a lot of research about the before to someone so I did find an interview that she and Chad to gather most of these interviews that she does our with Jad. So I found one, it was a video interview where it was her and Janet. It had been maybe on zoom or something. This is before Cova though I can't remember. Maybe it was on facebook. Live or something and it was her job. Ask answering questions. Questions and Jad probably entered a lot of them, but she answered some two and I got a lot of information from those interviews but I also got a sense of who she was as a person, and that is really helpful. It's really helpful, because she she you hear her voice during Dolly Parton show, but you get much more of a sense. I got much more of a sense of her personality from watching this so I got a lot out of that, and then it was really really listening to the show and coming up with questions about the show, and I figured out that she. I think I knew that she was a first generation American I did not ask her that question, but I think I knew that in the background and that maybe there are some parallels to reporting on this story because of that and it ended up that there were and she actually brought them up on prompted of me last week. So then it was question of sort of focusing on what I knew about her. What I knew about the show and formulating questions that would give me a different angle because the other element of this whole thing is that I knew that I would get a completely different angle from Shema that I knew that she would have had a completely different point of view and new stories to tell so that. That as Jad is getting interviewed in various places like I'm always looking for like. How can I have a different angle? How can I have a story that other people aren't telling so? They want to listen to my podcast. Because when they come to my podcast, they'll get something different. And it was no different here and that was one of the things that I started convincing myself of when I. First saw Eric's interview. And then some others pop up and that was another thing that led me to okay. This makes sense Shema will give me a complete ever side, and then it was funny I started telling people. Oh, I'm interviewing, Shimoyama? And cut a few different people said Oh. She's great. You're GonNa love her, and I thought that that was that was just further confirmation that I was on the right track. So, I'm going to wrap things up. Thanks so much for listening to this episode, and my parents were right downstairs as I. Record this Altro, thank you for making yourself available for this interview or for the opportunity interviewing next week. I will drop an interview with will Williams. You may know well from her work as a podcast critic, last year will decided to create a podcast herself and not only. Only that she created a podcast about making that podcast, join me in a week as I talked about why she decided to create the kind of work, she critiques and whether she's enjoyed the experience. If you enjoyed this episode lease, tell a friend about it. It makes a huge difference, and we love all the love and support. You can throw our way. Inside podcasting is produced and hosted by me Skype Pillsbury my Heroux Eric. Co Producer is Yvo. Tara from simpler media productions, many thanks to Maria Silva and Breezy Robinson at WNYC studios. They are the two folks I mentioned earlier who I reached out to who helped me arranged last week's interview. I am also grateful to Charles clearly are faithful. Sound engineer are talented researcher. My Mom, who is also on this episode and special thanks to Jason Cal. Canas for green lighting this project. Finally thank you so much to my husband on and my children Clark Nonaka. Thank you for being so supportive and putting up with me and most of all thanks to all of you for listening I. Get to see all the little dots all over the globe of you tuning in just like warms my heart and makes me so happy. Thank you so much for listening. It means so much and reach out anytime. You, next week
Trade wars and face-recognition cameras in church: China and the kingdom of God
"Really? Trade wars and face recognition cameras and church China in the kingdom of God this Dr Jim Dennison's daily article podcast for Wednesday may eighth two thousand nineteen two suspects were apprehended yesterday after a school shooting not far from Columbine high school left one student dead in eight others injured the stem school highlands ranch. Now joined the long list of such tragedies. While Americans were grieving yet, another school shooting stocks fell significantly on fears of a trade war with China, the market plunged, Monday morning on news that the US would escalate tariffs against Chinese imports than it rebounded on hopes that trade talks would eventually succeed amid news that a Chinese delegation is coming to Washington this week then it fell again yesterday. My purpose today is not to masquerade as an economist and explaining the function and results of tariffs or the larger financial issues at stake. Rather it is Scott. With you in underlying factor in the US China relationship that is crucial for our souls in God's global kingdom. Michael Pillsbury served eight presidential administrations and is currently director of the center for Chinese strategy at the Hudson institute, his latest book is both fascinating. And frightening. The hundred year marathon, China's secret strategy to replace America as the global superpower, according to Pillsbury, China's president Xi Jinping dreams of a quote of resurgent China that would reclaim its rightful place atop the global hierarchy. This has been a communist party ambition since Mao took over in nineteen forty nine the date commonly. Understood by China's leaders as the beginning of the hundred here marathon, China's goal is to quote, compete and surpassed the United States as the world's leading economic power. If current trends persist by twenty fifty China's economy will be much larger than America's perhaps the. Re times larger according to some projections. Why does this matter in this new world, quote, China will be able to outspend America's military? It will be able to exert over its neighbors and allies the robust influence that America has enjoyed for decades. And at least to some degree China will be able to shape the world in its image. Such a power shift, quote will be a huge step back from open markets and free trade, and it will handicap the WTO and similar efforts to foster multilateral trading. Ensure according to Pillsbury, the Chinese dream is for China to be the world's only superpower unrivalled, economically militarily in culturally, what comes of the current trade contest between the US and China remains to be seen. But there's no question that the Chinese are engaged in a marathon, not a sprint. Here's part of the story that I've not seen in the news coverage the United States and the People's Republic of China. Stand on radically different cultural foundations, China's world view is grounded in Buddhist teachings emphasize, the impermanent of all being in that the belief that humans have no permanent soul. There's no concept of a personal God or an individual's external existence in heaven or hell the focuses on TV nirvana a state of bliss in which human ego, desire and suffering are extinguished. Couple this view of the individual with communism's insistence that the person must serve the state to advance the welfare of all. And we have a formula for long-term national advancement with less concern for present day citizens. The Chinese government can engage in one hundred year quest for global dominance, even if it's people fail to benefit today. They have no power to vote. Their leaders out of office ensuring the one party governments continue to thority by contrast. The American experiment is based on the Judeo Christian commitment to the sanctity of every human life Thomas Jefferson claimed that quote, all men are created equal and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, including life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. His declaration expressed all Americans considered self evident truth because their culture was grounded in the biblical worldview our democracy flows naturally from the belief in the intrinsic value of each person and the antithesis. Missus of communism. Here's the practical point of today's daily article, China's leaders recognized the intense est between their eight theistic worldview in the Christian faith. That's why they're escalating persecution against Christians and churches arresting more than one hundred thousand believers last year. One Chinese church was recently closed when its pastor a graduate of fuller, theological seminary in California, refused to mount face recognition cameras on his pulpit turned on the congregation miners are banned from entering any church online sales of bibles or blocked and crosses. Another other. Christian symbols are being torn down. Authorities are reportedly intensifying the crackdown in rural areas by offering monetary awards to those reporting on neighbors or family members participating in Christian worship the trade wars. Making headlines are important to our present day economic health. China's marathon for global dominance is obviously relevant to our collective few. Later, but the spiritual warfare going on in China is eternally significant I invite you to stop now and ask God to protect the hundreds of millions of Christians and China ask our father to redeem their suffering and strengthen their witness and decide to join them in serving Jesus whatever the cost. God's word warns us all who desire to live a godly life in Christ. Jesus will be persecuted. But Jesus taught his persecuted followers to rejoice in be glad for great is your award in heaven. If you must choose between reward today in reward attorney, what decision will you make encourage you to connect Denison form on Facebook Instagram Twitter to keep the conversation going. Thank you for listening to today's daily article podcast.
#118: The Connected Parent (with guest Lisa Qualls)
"FOR THIRTY PLUS YEARS, I've seen every type of child grow up instead of giving me what I wanted. She gave me what I needed, which was truth. Don't let emotions win let truth win do your very best and you should have a lot of fun while you're doing better. You get at something the more fun you're going to have at something you MOMS and dads are wired with everything you need to be a parent to a rape kit. Welcome to parenting great kids. This is episode number one, hundred and eighteen, and I'm your host Dr Meg meeker today. My guest is Lisa qualls. Lisa's the author of the Connected Parent real-life Strategies for Building Trust and attachment she and her husband. Russ are the parents of twelve. You heard me twelve children by birth and adoption and sometimes more through foster care. Lisa's the creator of the one thankful mom website and popular speaker at events for adoptive and foster parents. She's also the CO founder of the adoption connection. podcast in resource site for adoptive mom Lisa mentors and encourages adoptive parents. So they can find courage and hope in their journeys of loving their children well, as always I will share my points to ponder. So you can start using them right away and parents please remember don't just download episodes click subscribe because I. Need you to join my parenting revolution and every new episode will automatically show up in your subscribed list. I'd love for you to write a review on I tunes and let us know what you think. Also the PG Cape Podcast is not only on I tunes. And the Google play store and stitch. So no matter where you get your podcast subscribe today parents, do you get sick of hearing your kids argue for not listening to you or you feel that sometimes life at home is sort of out of control I get it and I can help check out my three Webinar on my website meeker parenting, dot com. Let's help bring more order and calm and more fun back and tear relationships with your kids. So parents. Thanks for listening. This is episode number one, hundred eighteenth stay with us. I want you now to listen in on a conversation that I had with Lisa Walls I. Know You really going to enjoy it. Well Lisa. Thank you so much for joining me on my podcast today. Thank you for having me. It's truly an honor I'm thrilled to be here. Well, I whenever I am talking with. People who've written books like this. The connected parent realize strategies for building, trust and attachment. I like to dive into your brain and pull out as much. Great. As I can because there's so much that I wanNA learn from you that our audience is going to want to learn for you because you really are an extraordinary woman. You wrote a lot of this book out of your personal experience. You have eight children by birth and you adopted for Kit. Now that makes anybody gasp when we think that I rang kits and now we have. Grandchildren, but it's it's exhausting. Can talk about adoption at the beginning of our program, and then we'll get to attachment of biologic children. Later, you describe in the book, some difficulties that you had with adoptive and foster children particularly as it came to attachment. Can You? Describe why attachment in those early years with a child are so important? As, far as their relationships later in life. Yes, we'll attachment really forms the foundation for all of our future relationships. Attachment is built very strongly in that first year of life when a child, a baby expresses a need and that need is met by their caregiver and this happens thousands of times. The baby cries the mother comes and picks the baby up the baby's hungry. The babies fed the baby's cold the wrapped in a blanket and their needs are met over and over and over again and. So the whole lesson of that first year of life in terms of attachment is I can trust will when a child does not experience having their needs met then and they cry and nobody comes and they're hungry and they're not fed. Then they develop a strong distrust of the world of people and truly their their brain chemistry is also by this by these early traumas of their needs not being met, and so all of that affects their attachment they don't develop. Secure attachment because of these losses in these early TRAUMAS and that goes on to affect all of us are attachment to our original. Our very first parents affects us throughout our lives. And how long does the building of this attachment take you said the first year of life, but it continues into the second third and fourth year as well. Is that correct? Yes and I think attachment. Well I. Think There's a hopeful message in this in that. Attachment can be healed and children can become securely attached even older ages I think attachment can also be harmed. Yes. It's I. Think it's somewhat of a lifelong process especially for a child who has not had secure attachment if they join a family through adoption or foster care and they begin building it even much later in life, they can develop secure attachment. These we've got parents out there who have adopted children already up different ages and parents who are thinking of an of adoption. Is there an age that's best if you can choose to adopt a child, I mean is better from birth when they're one obviously you know the earlier, the better but is, is there a time when? If attachment doesn't form. It's really hard to. For child to learn to reattach, for instance, if they're five or six or seven or even Tan. Well I do think it can become more difficult as children have experienced a longer period of time of not having their needs met not having secure attachment. I think it can become increasingly difficult. However, I do think it's possible and children who are harmed in relationship can also heal in relationship. So yes, perhaps it is easier if a child is very young although we do know that being separated from their first parents trauma in and of itself and so even children adopted newborns can experience some challenges at some point in. Terms of attachment but you know we adopted our children came to us at five months twenty months five and a half and ten and a half, and so we really experienced a broad range of ages within our own children and I've come to somewhat of an understanding that when children are significantly older especially if they're pre puberty if they're moving toward becoming a teenager. I I'm not a scientist I'm not an expert but in my experience sometimes those children, we may not be able to form that secure attachment. But what we can do is we can bring so much healing into their lives that we set the foundation for them to have secure attachment in their future with their spouses with their children. So it may not look the same as it tattooing. We'd form with a young child, but it can still be really good. Great. So even if you have a child who his five or eight or ten and ahead a really rough start and never was allowed to attach I'm sinking in the old Soviet Union. been doing this many years in and saw some children come over at seven or eight or nine, and these were kids who basically were in a crib on their back the first year and a half two years of life. A bottle was stuck in their mouth and that was really there the interaction that the head with humans nothing was safe life wasn't safe it they they didn't even bother crying after a while because nobody was gonNA come. So when you have a child that that deprived emotionally and has no attachment at all and then they come to you what are some of the issues and problems that parents can expect to to have. Well I think a lot of children who have not had really they have no foundation of secure attachment. You know they may exhibit some really challenging behaviors and we definitely experienced that particularly with one of our daughter's. Children have such a deep distrust of people and of the world that their brains have been wired to be a rewired from how they should have been to be very hyper vigilant to be very they can become they can appear really independent because they just have not been able to have any of their own their net anyone else. So they've learned to become these survivor's they may. have very out of. Control. what we would call a Tantrum in the adoption world. We might call a rage because the child can be. So quickly this regulated that it can become very, very big and they don't have the internal skills to calm and regulate. They may hoard food because they've been so deprived I mean there are any number sometimes kids can have significant issues with bathroom ing on me. All kinds of things can happen and some of those are very hard to heal but again I think. By the grace of God. And using all the best skills we have. We can just do our best to bring our children into as much healing as possible Well, let's talk about your your personal experience because I've seen it in a lot of the patients that I've worked with with adoptive kids. You had particular trouble with one of your daughters really acting out and you say that it caused you to feel guilty as a mom and you just felt like I was a terrible mom I don't know what to do and a lot of parents I think of adoptive kids feel if I just pour on a not a lot of love and nurture them and hold them and I'm meet their needs and every single turnaround. So if you wouldn't mind talked to us about your experience with your daughter and how you came through that. Will we had been parents for twenty years when we adopted children from Ethiopia. So we really felt that we very experienced and we were. We are very experienced parenting. The children who had been born to us. We did a lot of preparation. You know we went through training and all kinds of things before our kids came home and. I don't know anything could have quite prepared us for the depth of our daughters struggles. She was a very very harmed little girl and I used to say it was like a river fear was running through her veins and the thing about fear in these children is that it comes out looking like anger looking like out of control behavior when really it's deep deep fear in their core and so with her she was very quickly what we would call this regulated the smallest thing with throw her completely into these rages that would. Go On for long periods of time and when she came home and we were experiencing this tumult, I mean it really through our whole family into crisis because our other children had never seen anything like this, their home had been very safe, very secure, very stable and all of a sudden. It felt like a warzone Nan and I can remember crying lot praying lot wondering what we should do and why it was all going. So wrong and if we had really heard the Lord, why was it turning out like this? You know And it took us a long time to find help but we did find good help. We learned a lot more about what we would call connected therapeutic parenting and began applying all of those skills but it was not easy at all and it took a huge investment of our time and energy in order to persevere with parenting her in the way that she needed. What kind of behaviors were you sing and her, and how old was she when you start seeing them? When she was five and a half before she came home and to be honest when we met her in Ethiopia within itin hour, we knew that things were going to be difficult. We didn't I mean I think I was very hopeful like you know if when we get our home and we feed her and we take care of her and give her so much love and affection it's GonNa be okay and I think a lot of adoptive parents are not prepared for the long. Long Road of healing. This does not happen in a year or two years. It's a long road and with her she was such a survivor an adorable I mean if you could see how she was, you'd be just amazed she was beautiful beautiful child but she had learned that to protect herself. She had to be in control, and so in the orphanage she was a child who could chump the highest sing the loudest smile the biggest like she knew how to draw your attention. But in the home she saw every sibling as a competitor. So she was very aggressive toward the other children the younger children she was very aggressive toward me. Not so much toward my husband but When she became this regulated, we talk about children have having a fight flight or freeze response she was a fighter. And that was very difficult. So a lot of screaming a lot of aggression She had a lot of food trauma. So she wasn't a child who hoarded so much. But when she felt hungry, she was immediately just. Out of control because his hunger terrified her because deep within herself I think she felt she would die. You know I, feel hungry. I might die because that's how it felt on the streets of. Ethiopia. How did your other children handle all of this because if you've got one child who's sort of pulling all of the energy out of the family. What was it like for them and how did you help them? Well. It was very traumatizing for them. You know some of my kids were already in college and they started staying on campus a whole lot more even though they lived at Home Sim of my children were home schooled that became nearly impossible. I had friends who took over homeschooling for me. I think the hardest part was that the children who are too little to escape. Lived in this fear of of trauma and. This regulation. And it was very hard for them because she was not our youngest. You know I had three younger than her when she came home. So our two little boys from with Yoga and then one of our daughters by birth were all younger and so they were very vulnerable and we had to work hard to protect them. I think it was a while before we realized how much are older children were truly suffering and we we couldn't. We couldn't think about it. We were just so survival mode ourselves you know. We. Had to go back and repair a lot of relationship hurts with our older kids but you know. They're they're wonderful and they've they've forgiven us for all that we didn't know and all that we didn't do and we have a very close family now that. Going into adoption you your eyes were open. You'd been parenting for quite a while. I mean you're probably is as well prepared as anybody could be for adoption. Be You said when these troubles came, you still felt a little bit paralyzed. What do we do what we do, and then it seems to me that a real turning point for you was when you began. Listening and studying. Dr Purposes. Teaching Dr Karyn Purvis and her series. Can you talk a little bit about that time and what changed for you then? Yes, I was introduced to Dr previous I was already blogging I had started blogging in two thousand six before we brought our children home and one of my readers told me that I should read the Connected Child by Dr Karyn. Purvis Dr David Cross, they were from you and had developed something called trust based relational intervention and it was really a. An intervention or a way of caring for children who experienced this kind of trauma and I remember reading the book in learning so much about the fact that there were really three key things that I had to do. They talk about we talk about the. Principles, connecting principles and correcting principles, and those all had to be. We had to meet all three of those different things in order to help our children he l.. And you know when I First read the book I remember being. My eyes were really opened. But then I saw video of Dr Purvis teaching. and. When I saw her speak she really existed so much hope she loved the Lord she has since passed away, but she really loves the Lord and she was very, very gifted and I felt so much hope from her and I remember thinking if she has his much hope for my kids I'm GonNa hold onto her hope I'm GonNa Learn everything I can and then I share this with my husband and we were all in with connected parenting. Talk about the three. The three. Strategies. If you would with parents, you talk about scripts saying, yes and giving choices and was it applying these really helped you with your daughter or was it something that you learned that Dr Purvis was teaching before you began to apply these three strategies? Yes. I learned all of those from her and I think one of the first tools the reason it's one of the first chapters in the book is about script simplifying scripts is because it's one of the simplest things her parents to apply from the very beginning scripts are Jesse's short simple phrases that we use, and we we practice them with our children we use them over and over again. And they do a couple things one they keep us from overloading our children with words. You know it's really easy for parents to talk on and on. But especially when a child is just regulated when they're little bit upset, they can't even understand what we're saying. We have to keep it very, very simple. The other thing about scripts his child knows exactly what it means where we have shared language and that's a trust building thing to, and so they begin to know what we're saying we keep it really short and these scripts will then help move our children toward optimal behavior and altered their beliefs in positive way so I'll give an example Dr. Purpose would teach you know we need to get I contact with our children. Will I contact us really really hard if you've been harmed by people and you don't trust people. So something we have to work on with our kids. So what she teaches if she would say, let me see your beautiful eyes and and get the child to turn their eyes toward you and then you praise them, you say, oh You're such beautiful is and then you go on to instruct them. You know now it's time to come to the table to eat or whatever you gain eye contact I we can't just toss things over our shoulder like, hey, come to the table for dinner because our children these children will not likely do it. So I contact the other script I still use being a mom of teens is try that again with respect. So you know, they might say something. And I know what they're trying to save but they're not saying in a respectful way and it's a need that I can meet I'll just say, hey, try that again with respect. So we use that script a lot in the book I have a whole lot of different scripts but they can also be things that are something a family develops on their own. It doesn't have to be something that we thought of every family's different and so they can come up with their own little scripts. The giving of yeses is very important because like we mentioned in the beginning. When a child's needs are not met they are not receiving. Yes. It's like every time apparent says, Oh, my child's crying I'm GonNa pick them up to yes. Oh my child's hungry. I'm GONNA feed them. That's a yes in. So especially when parents are stressed and we're in hard circumstances with our kids, it's really easy to say, no, I know for me I felt so out of control that the last thing I, could I wanted to do was be flexible because I was scared I was just regulated you know but the giving of yes is Really important. So that children understand yes we're going to meet your needs and then the last one giving choices the reason that is really useful as it builds trust. So we we are trusting a child that we present choices. The choices are ours to offer, but then we let them choose between one or the other, and it can be as simple as do you WANNA wear the red shirt today or the green shirt today and we let them practice choosing. Do you want to have a peanut butter sandwich for lunch or do you want to have? I don't know I can't think of Turkey you know let them choose all of these things are helping the child learn that their voice matters that were listening and we're going to meet their needs. That's hard to do when you're upset and a Lotta Times. I find these things come up like a script will come up or a need to say, yes, we'll come up or even giving choices when you're stressed for instance. A two and a half year old who? Has. A lot of toys all over this must have happened to you a lot. You have so many kids you couldn't run around picking up and doing everything all you're all on your own, but you need them to pick the toys up. And you want it done pretty quickly because you're going somewhere. So how do you? Can you walk us through? What would your script be? How do you say? Yes, how do you give a? When you need them to pick up their toys. In. That instance I would probably say, and this is just off the top of my head I'd probably putting you on the spot here. Okay. That's okay. I would probably say, okay, it's time to pick up toys. Would you like to hand them to mommy and I'll put them in the basket. Would you like to put them in the basket yourself? So I'm giving them to positive choices that are both going to end up resulting in what I want and when I give choices a hold out one hand and then the other with each choice to the child actually has a physical representation so I might hold out one hand and say, would you like Mommy to put the toys in the basket, you bring them to mommy or do you want to put them yourself and then the child can see that there are two options and when they're upset, it wouldn't be in this instance they can just touch the hand they give the right answer. Does that make sense? Yes. Absolutely absolutely and as your because I know this is GonNa be. It sounds easy but I've been in these situations enough to know that it's really really hard first of all. If you're dealing with a child WHO's upset and ornery and doesn't WanNA listen and maybe they're they're yelling. And you know there are a lot of emotions that go through parents feel like, why can't I control this child Wisest Child Swan happy. Why did they disrespect me so much and so on and so forth to really have to. Have, some discipline I guess or some. Internal regulation to be able to stop and do this. Parents I hope you're enjoying this conversation with Lisa Fall. We need to take a quick break but please don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more of this conversation Parents home where we make breakfast the sweetest part of the day when you need something delicious to get everyone together there's Pillsbury, grands, cinnamon. Rolls Pillsbury grands cinnamon rolls have delicious cinnamon swirls drizzled with sweet melted icing. They're easy to make an even the kids can enjoy icing and decorating their favorite cinnamon treats I love Pillsbury grand cinnamon rolls, and to tell you the truth I've been serving them to my kids and now my grandkids for. Years. One of the reasons I love Pillsbury grants cinnamon rolls is because I have a sweet tooth and every Christmas morning. I always like to serve cinnamon rolls and Pillsbury. Grants is a wonderful easy way to serve them plus it's really fun to involve the grandkids and making them and drizzling them with melted icing. It's kind of fun to have everybody get together and talk together as we make the delicious cinnamon Rolls Pillsbury cinnamon makes any. Morning that much sweeter grab Pillsbury grants, cinnamon rolls at a store near you and remember to get more because they go fast parents home is where we make breakfast the sweetest part of the day when you need something to listen to get everyone together there's Pillsbury grands cinnamon. Rolls Pillsbury grands cinnamon rolls have delicious cinnamon swirls drizzled with sweet melted icing. They're easy to make even the kids can enjoy icing and decorating their favorite cinnamon treats. Friends I love Pillsbury Grand, cinnamon rolls and tell you the truth does reading about how you make them. An drizzle them with their frosting makes me WANNA have one right now we actually give our kids Pillsbury grands cinnamon rolls on Christmas morning. They're special. They're sweet and everybody in my house loves them. It's a tradition and Pillsbury grands cinnamon rolls always remind us of being together particularly on Christmas morning Pillsbury grands cinnamon rolls makes any morning. That much sweeter grab Pillsbury grands cinnamon rolls at a store near you and remember to get more because they go fast. KIWI CO create super cool hands on projects designed to expose kids of all ages two concepts in steam science technology, engineering art, and math. Kiwi coz mission is to help kids bill confidence creativity and critical thinking skills and a blast while doing it. Each crate is designed by experts and tested by kids and teaches A. New Steam concept each box is delivered monthly and comes with all the supplies needed for that project plus detailed kid-friendly instructions and enriching magazine filled with content to learn more about the crates theme. Each line caters to different age groups and there are a variety of topics plus the crate includes everything you need. So you don't have to worry about running out extra supplies friends if you've listened to my podcast for even a short period of. Time you know I love Kiwi co I have five grand children ages seven down to two, and there's a key we cope box for every age grandchild. Grandkids love seeing the Kiwi Co boxes come in the mail land at our doorstep. We open them up and dig into see what they can learn that day. The Fun thing about Kiwi Co is you learn, but kids don't realize they're learning because they're having so much fun with Kiwi. Coast hands on our in science projects kids can engineer a walking robot blast off a bottle rocket. We've done that explore colorful kid-friendly chemistry and more everything you need to make steam seriously fun delivered to your doorstep. Get your first month free on select crates at Chico Dot com slash meg. That's K. I W I C O, dot com slash meg. Now let's say you had you're you're working with your daughter she's five or six or seven. And she's having temper tantrums and you need to take a shower and she refuses to get in the shower or you need to go to bed or. I mean, just think of if you could any sort of out of control experience an experience where she was out, of Control. If if a child's being really. Hard to live with as you talk about, how would you apply do need to do something before you can apply these three strategies or can you just start using them right away? Well if a child is already distressed and this regulated and a little out of control I, I don't think that's the time probably use most of these really your only goal at that point first of all is to keep everyone safe if this is turning into a big thing, but secondly, it's to try to bring the child close and use your calm regulated state, which you may not feel, and it takes some work out golfing and calming and try to use your com to bring them into com regulation with you. So you know at the end of the day with a child WHO's really Challenging, you might just have to let go of that shower it may not happen because you cannot we. You know especially older teens and things we cannot physically pick up a child and put them in our. So we have to decide what is really important here, and really what's most important is relationship. There's some things that we cannot Just lecco obviously, but we want to focus on the relationship. Let go of everything that's not truly important and then really prioritize what are we going to expect of that child? Well. You're absolutely right and I think we over complicate things a lot. One of the things I see is a lot of parents are short on time. You know they're working outside the house they're getting their kids off to daycare at six thirty in the morning and the child doesn't WanNa go and they don't want to you. You know you can sense where I'm going here. But what really what you're talking about takes some time and some calm and some energy, you can't just do it on the fly and Do these strategies and principles work with non adoptive kids as well? Do they work with say at teenagers that's lived in your home? But is going through some kind of crisis when they're fourteen or fifteen years old and they're just out of control. Would would you approach that Chad? The same way you would with an adoptive child who has an attachment disorder. I would I would because really every healthy relationship is built on the foundation of trust and connection, and so you know I've parented a lot of kids now in a lot of teens and I really try to keep the relationship and the connection at the heart of my interactions. I fail all the time you know because like you said, this is exhausting is a really hard this very intense parenting and and when kids go through a hard season whether they're born to us or adopted, it's GonNa take a lot out of us and we will have to like I had to dramatically changed my life and the things I thought were important. Really a lot of those had to go because I was in the trenches of parenting, my kids and I'm thankful that I was able to do that. That was able to be home with them but yes, I think all of these principles building relationship on trust and attachment with for all children and in fact, they worked for marriage to off the. Their show yes. It would make sense because I think the whole idea of scripts is so important because one of the things that I see with well intentioned loving parents who are very educated. Often try to explain to their kids that can't handle what they're trying to explain, and it ends up frustrating the child. I've seen parents in grocery stores with three year olds who? Want you know a sugary cereal and they don't want to buy it and explaining to the child by the can't have it and how bad it is for them in the child's just getting matter matter. So I I think that you're very smart and you know for parents and families to come up with a handful of scripts that they use over and over. You talk about saying yes, and obviously there are times when you need to say no to a child, you know when when they're endangered or something so. You're not Avi always saying say, yes, you're saying say, yes to the big things whenever you can is that, right? Yes. Say I think say yes whenever you can and even if you have to give a no, if you can start it with a yes like the child says, you know I wanna stay up late tonight and watch this show you can say You know. Friday night you stay up late we'll watch that show together but tonight, it's time you. Try to try to meet that need that they have even if you cannot give a yes in the moment. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. It's really great. I wish I'd known all this when my kids were younger but. Not. A lot of it. You know you're so exhausted as a young parent and you don't you're losing sleep and you're worried you're doing the wrong thing talk about personality because we hear a lot particularly today. That kids really are sort of born very multiple and and what we want is to have these children I call him gray kids you know they wear gray, they don't wear pink or blue. Dress them in gray to let them sort of pick their way. But I think if you apply that to a larger sense. How much does personality play because you've you have so many kids. Obviously it's not just about parenting, but don't you think some kids are easier to parent than other kids because of their personality or do you think their personality really comes about by the way they've been parented? Nature versus nurture. You're giving me a tough question here. I think that children are born very unique like God makes us all different. We are wired differently. I think I mean with my kids I gave birth to they grew up in the same environment same parents and I have a wide variety of personalities of interest of I mean. I've got a child who is a physician I've got another child who's a writer you know and they have the same parents so and I have some kids who were easily consoled and easy going and other kids who are not. Just, the kids born to me. So I I think we we want to give an optimal environment for our kids to develop into the people. God wants him to be and become you know as healthy as possible. But there we can't. They're not do not blank slates they come to us who as who they are and children come to us through adoption. You know they have a whole other. History in their lives especially if they didn't come as newborns. So they're coming with a whole lot of personality and a lot of experiences before we ever set eyes on them. Yeah. I I'm thinking of my own kids and it's well, I think you know our oldest is so very different from our youngest and You know some kids it seemed to me are just born. with a harder time with life, they're more explosive other kids as you say, they're very sent their sensitive they're easy console. They're very gentle and you think, what am I doing differently between these two kids but sometimes, you're not doing anything differently do you think or are you? Well, we do respond to our children. So as much as we'd like to say, we don't do anything differently. We probably do because we're human you know. So that child is super easy. It's easy to keep our tone light. It's easy to be relaxed around them and and that shows in our bodies. In the way we move and talk kids who are harder. It's hard not to just be a little edgier right in a little less tolerant because we're thinking Oh boy where is this about to go? You know and and again I'm talking about just my kids by birth. Great thing is they grow up and they really become incredible people even if they were hard when they were younger. Yep, exactly. You know and that's that's what I saw. I saw each of them sort of turn a corner at some point. In my life, my guest has been Lisa qualls her book, which is amazing is called the Connected Parent real-life strategies for Building Trust and attachment. It's brand new home the press she wrote with the late. Dr Karyn Purvis, and it is fabulous. What do you have a child who's been adopted whether it your foster parenting? Uh, some kids are whether your kids are your biologic children, really the principles and strategies in this book work for all children and I just can't recommend it highly enough. It is really a fabulous book for every parent no matter how old your kids are to read. I'm still learning and I feel like I'm starting over again in a way with our grandkids trying not to make mistakes I did with our kids. One thing I am finding however is the second time around obviously they're not my children. I'm so much calmer i. you know I really You just don't worry about things. 'cause you know okay they're having a temper tantrum just wait it out. It's been the okay but it's really hard and and so I appreciate your work so much. Lisa thanks so much for joining me. Look. Thank you for having me. Now under my points to ponder one. Use Scripts not long sentences. One of the mistakes that parents frequently make and I include myself is over explaining things to our kids particularly when it comes to telling them what to do scripts are short two to three words that summarize what you want your child to do. For instance if you tell your four year old to get dressed and she won't look her in the eye and say, you need to listen and obey. Don't say you need to get dressed because it's cold outside in when you go to preschool your teacher won't like it if you have your PJ's on. Or if your three year old hits, his sister you intervene and simply say, no, we don't do that. You could say please don't hit your sister because it will make her feel badly in our family we don't hurt each other because that makes the other person angry and hurt, and you don't want anybody else in the family to be angry and hurt particularly your sister. To say yes as often as you can say, yes, makes the child feel more connected to a parent and it gives them more self confidence however saying, yes does not mean letting the child do anything she wants it simply means putting a yes. In answers that you give for instance when your eight year old school rather than say, sorry, you just need to keep going it will get better. You can say, yes I, understand I'll ask your teacher to help. Would you like me to speak to her alone or would you like to go with me? This makes a child feel heard and respected three give your child choices that you like when you ask your child to do something particularly something that you think he won't WanNa do it helps him obey if you let him choose between two. For instance, if you need your child to get dressed for school in the morning, ask him do you WanNa have breakfast first and then get dressed or get dressed before you have breakfast this makes the child answer and take charge of getting dressed plus he hints squirm out of getting dressed or having breakfast because you didn't give him the. To do neither one. Parents, you know I love answering your questions. I'm going to do special podcasts. We're all I do is answer your questions please email meet any parenting question to ask Meg at MEG MEEKER MD dot com again asked meg at Meg Meeker MD, Dot Com I. Want to thank my guest Lisa qualls for joining me on the show today to find out more about Lisa. Go to one thankful MOM DOT COM. That's one thankful MOM DOT com. Be Sure to follow lease on facebook and Instagram just search for one thankful mom in your Internet browser. So let's recap my points to conduct one use scripts not long sentences. To say, yes, as often as you can three. Give. Your child choices. So until next time parents always remember that great kids are raised not born hey, this is bobby producer of magny cours parenting Greg Kids podcast. Thanks for listening because of your dedication to raising great kids doctor Max, parenting? Revolution has grown to three million downloads head on over to facebook and twitter and follow at me Ker. Indie and check out what's new at MEG MEEKER DOT COM and while you're there for the newsletter to stay updated and get information about giveaways, don't forget to share the podcast with other parents subscribe. So you won't Miss Anything and leave us a review. So we know how we're doing.
11: "Best Podcasts for Kids" Week
"P their podcast listeners. It is all for the kids this week. We're sharing five podcast episodes on the theme of best podcasts. For Kids there are also some fun. Things thrown in for the adults to welcome to feedback with ear. Buds brought to you by ear. Buds podcast collective. I'm your host and the founder under of Your Buds Ariel Nisa Vlad. This episode covers the week of December. Sixteen through twenty two thousand nineteen this week show is brought to us by buzz sprout route a platform. That helps you start podcast of your own more information on them later in the show your podcast. Collective is a listening movement. We send an email email every Sunday that contains a theme and five podcast episodes on that theme and each week's podcast. Pigs are created by a different person. Anyone can carry it a list. This show is just that I'll share five podcast episode recommendations of the week some information about our curator and some more information about the episode's chosen you'll also so here are some of the week's top podcast industry stories from the inside podcasting newsletter. I are ear. Buds podcast collective recommendations. This week's theme is best podcasts. For kids the curator is Maggie Maguire the CEO and founder of Pinot a podcast APP designed just for kids. Here's why Maggie chose this theme. She writes I'm Maggie McGuire. CEO of Penna the first and only audio on demand service for kids three to twelve. The theme. I chose is best podcasts for kids I chose this theme because it Pinna were passionate about. Oh kids audio we call it. Imagination lead entertainment. Here's my list of top PODCASTS. For kids that spark imagination and are fun entertaining and educational. So here are the podcast and episodes chosen by Maggie. Monday's episode comes from Story Pirates and is called glory and the friend adventure slashed the big chance chance featuring Jeremy Sisto. It's thirty seven minutes long. If you are a fan of sketch comedy and musicals then this podcast brings both together in half hour episodes so that are silly wacky filled with music and always surprising. A big bonus. Is that the ideas for each episode written by kids who submit them to the story pirates in the hopes of seeing their stories brought to life by troupe of professional actors storytellers and Comedians. Tuesday's episode comes from brains on and is called the secrets of the spectacular spacesuit. It's thirty seven minutes long. This is a must-listen podcast for curious. Kits every episode delves into why. And how how things work where things come from. And so much more the topics are wide ranging which makes it great for any kid they can learn. How elevators work to the design ideas behind roller coasters in why some of US feel sick when we're writing on them and on and on Wednesday's episode comes from mother-tongue with Serene and is called Italian Elian? It's a quick seven minutes long. This podcast takes listeners. Around the world to learn new words in new languages listeners will learn about culture music food and language and are encouraged to respond to Serena calls to sing speak and repeat throughout the episode Thursday's episode comes from Hero Hotel and is called called the side King. It's twenty four minutes long in this fiction comedy adventure podcast listeners. Meet Chet Zabriskie who works at his grandmother. Z's hotel for superheroes superheroes when trash monsters Glam rock singers and static electric villains invade the hotel all while the heroes are on vacation unwilling to lift a finger. It's is up to chat and his superpower cat boomer to save the day Friday's episode comes from the BBC's animal sounds Affari and is called the luckiest cat in the world world. It's eighteen minutes long. This podcast is delightful and chock full of animal facts along with some weird wacky and slightly gross facts listeners. Find out all about the luckiest cat in the world. How slots go from slackers to superstars and what odd noises? Cute Fluffy Koalas make those. Are The podcast recommendations chosen by Maggie for this week's theme best podcasts. For Kids you can view and listen to these episodes as a playlist on pod. Chaser head to pod HOD CHASER DOT COM and type best podcasts for kids in the search bar and all these episodes will be right there for you. You can get in touch with Maggie and with pinna on twitter At pinata audio that's P. E. N. N. A.. Audio you can join in on the discussion of this week's theme by using the Hashtag Kids podcasts. Next what's going on in the podcast world lately. Here's some of the top stories adapted from Sky Pillsbury's inside podcasting newsletter as of Thursday December twelfth wealth. Two Thousand Nine Hundred Ninety first story podcast and founder of my podcast reviews. Daniel J Lewis Not Daniel day-lewis has created a handy Andy podcast industry statistics page which updates daily on it. You can find a wealth of instant data regarding the number of podcast in existence. The number of podcast removed or added active versus inactive shows. And more for what it's worth in the last day we lost one hundred ninety one podcast and gained two thousand three hundred twenty next story. According to reports Google assistant now allows people to use voice commands to find podcasts by topic. Sky Tested it out earlier this week and it didn't didn't work so well time will tell with this one next story this week on twitter skype. Put out a call for podcasters to populate their profiles on Pod chaser her a platform that allows creators to list their podcasts credits where they've guested played a role produced hosted and more log onto the site. And you may be surprised to find that you already have an account on pod chaser perhaps created by a fan but you'll still need to claim it. In order to edit for accuracy podge Acer allows creators and fans to build lists of their favorite shows shows or episodes see what their peers are enjoying rate and review other podcasts. Check out their favorite podcasters are up to and more and the last story of the day earlier this week. Steve Pratt's twenty podcasts predictions for twenty twenty from top podcasts industry leaders blog post came out. Here's one of the predictions from Charles. Dave Zohrab he says smart speakers will once again not take off as a podcast listening device in twenty twenty. I wish I could be more optimistic. About Smart Speakers Seekers there are still too many challenges for them to become a force in podcasting particularly around user interface. It's hard enough to get non techie folks to figure out how to listen on their mobile devices devices. Get rid of the screen. And it's even harder. I hope that Amazon Google and apple will invest in the user experience so we can see growth in smart speaker. podcast listening in two thousand twenty one to twenty twenty two. What do you think about this prediction? Those stories come to us from inside podcasting a thrice weekly newsletter written by Sky Pillsbury go to inside dot com slash podcasting to sign up for the newsletter. Now onto this week sponsor. Thank you to buzz sprout for sponsoring this week's show. If you're a podcast junkie like I am you've probably thought about starting your own show. PODCASTING is Super Fund but can feel overwhelming. If you don't know how to get started lucky see for you. That's where buds sprout comes in. Sprout is hands down the easiest and best way to launch a professional podcast. In fact it's so good that they've already helped over one hundred thousand. People people launch their own. PODCASTS bus will get your show into every major podcasting platform like apple. spotify cast box and Google podcasts. You'll also get a a great looking website detailed analytics to see how people are listening tools to promote your episodes and so much more and if you follow the link in the show notes you'll get a twenty dollar Amazon Gift Card when you sign up for any paid plan. Hey listener you can advertise with us to send an email to ear. Buds podcast collective at G MAIL DOT COM. And that's all for today. Hey folks we say the word podcast a lot on this show. We share the number of times at the bottom of each episode. This week it was fifty eight times. Yeah that's a lot. Think think we can beat that next week. Stay tuned head to our social media to find links to the episodes we mentioned. We're on twitter at ear. Buds pod call and we're on instagram and facebook at Earbud podcast collective. You can sign up to receive our podcast recommendation email at earbud. PODCAST COLLECTIVE DOT ORG. It goes out every single Sunday night. This show show is written by Arie on this. That's me it's produced by me. It's edited mix and designed by Daniel Terrific. Our newsletter is edited by ABC Lonski. You may have noticed that we have some new music this episode our theme Music is by the Amazing Matthew. Sweet Oh checkout Matthew Sweet Oh dot com for your own music solutions or reach out on Instagram at Matthew Sweet. Oh that's S. w. e.. Thanks for tuning in. Want to support the show head to our Patriot page at Patriot dot com slash. Your Buds podcast collective to become. I'm a member of our show for literally any dollar amount. Even one dollar even one fifty even fifty cents. Whatever that's P. A. T. R. E. O. N. dot com slash flash gear buds podcast collective? 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"A we're going to have a war going to have a potluck thanksgiving I don't no no debris I told her like. Oh I'll be like a cherry pie or something. And she has lots of desserts are like absolute auto so now I don't know where to bring 'cause I can't I'm reading but I'M GONNA I'm GonNa have. My mom makes something making tamales now. That's too much for her. I kind of want to try to Turkey what I will help you. The Turkey in like split it Kayla. You were scared of making brownies and now you want to. What what is this complex saying? I hope you. Wow that's been trying to cook more lately. No I made cookies. Who did I tell you? They don't understand. How so I the big you know those Pillsbury Pillsbury's lorraine yeah the ones that are like literally they're done scratch arch? I burn them. How I don't know 'cause I followed the directions? The temperature is too high because they didn't check the temperature. Why didn't check like solid gate? The smoke okay. Well no cookies are really hard to know. They're gonNA well yes because everytime I try making the always come out with a weird taste. They never taste cookie. Salmonella Yeah No. It's it's not burn but his overcooked burnt. I know mine were like like like yeah. No majority black really. They're like hard hard like all of them. Did you try it out no we. Why did you decide to make good for you because I wanted to ask me like in the Christmas? Christmas spirits Ginger gingerbread house by Zach Thomas that said it sure should make a video making gingerbread home. Yeah we should do that. Where though because as me really miss might do I guess? Would you set up a camera and stuff on the floor. Is it that unless it gets messy. CROHN'S I it's not really. Are you sure yeah. He says it's messy. So why are you trying to call him out just to be safe. Yeah but It's Thanksgiving this is going up Sunday. So thanksgiving is on Thursday. Yeah which means you're on Thanksgiving break and as you're in another country and like you don't celebrate Thanksgiving. Think we're the only ones that do it. And I forgot got married does not the center of the world. Are you guys doing anything for Thanksgiving. Honestly I don't even know really. Yeah I think I might go to my sister's house though maybe I'm hoping it's pretty tough family. Same thing I'm GONNA go to my cousin's house have a dinner Probably GonNa go to my aunt's house or something any. I don't think I'm doing anything this year I might. Did you do something last year. Yeah that I- Yes I think thinks. Oh I don't remember I felt like Thomas is there were you there anyway. What for way last year Thanksgiving I don't I think so because I remember specific detail? What about your guys Thanksgiving you guys drink wine for the first time over that something else? That was that was New Year's Oh I was on New Year's Oh my God no that it did happen and I almost. I swear I was about throw up really. Wasn't that bad like weekend. We get it no no I. I don't know I do not like it. I was willing good though. I was guessing like I. I don't no no. I had to force myself to drink I. I can't do it. I can't do it I just had it in my mouth with. Yeah and then it just swab. She's like Mike Guy you so dramatic. It's really bad but I. I swallowed it like the man I am. And then he goes through what Yeah but anyways know what I'm saying is for Thanksgiving. It's exciting. I'm really excited for the holidays. Even though I might not what do much this year we are having a friends of friends Mus. That's not no friends. Give me friendsgiving confused last year for Thanksgiving. We didn't do the Thanksgiving episode we. We did like a mini episode. Yeah we didn't do full episode. He's attacked what we were thankful for in stuff. That's is true Donna instagram and in light of the things giving spirit I wanted to talk about showing appreciation and I guess it's kind of like a friendship episode in a way is showing appreciation in general to your friends family. I think I think you do on that. You think you're very vocal by showing how much you care care for someone you good marks. Are You gonNA cry author already. No No oh I was there. Yeah I was like quivering because I started being more aware of that show appreciation because before I just get mad on my parents my mom And I didn't really see like Harris side. It was really a selfish mentality that I had It was not fair but it was not until my grandmother would tell me like your mom. She's working really hard you know she's been there so she understands I started saying you know mom Tom. You're pretty strong stuff like that. Like you work so hard so I appreciate the appreciation. I tried to be open minded did about it. Yeah so Ilias recently yes tear through development that is good character development. Yeah why why are you looking at thank. You should like say something while you think. Oh I mean what are you thinking about. What are you thinking about my own mom? Yeah Yeah You appreciative nece do. I'm literally I'm always hugging her. I'm always saying telling her. I love her uh-huh yes please might think use Always hugger before I sleep. How'd you just go to see what they'll say goodnight tonight? You're always say like the same like five six words since since I was a kid. It's always the same routine I kind of. I don't think I do very good job showing appreciation in general. I think I show it differently. You know let me just say Like Mike Kayla. I do not do that I I don't just go to my mom like hugging me like I love you. Mom I wish I could like I want to you know. Yeah yeah but I don't. Yeah really especially when I feel about I know I didn't mean to do uh-huh snappy all of a sudden like I don't mean to take on I don't I can't I don't have a weird thing like I don't do do it. I have a hard time doing that. I love you and then I can go through and Hugger do you tell her. Lsu Yeah Okay but you don't do the hugging part. Well what I mean like if she tells me like I love you. I'm like yeah me too. I love you too in the next you guys male hugger but like you know. She's I'm I'm not going to go up to hear. Yeah Mark Hunger when she's cooking now like that just like we're GONNA GONNA love you like you've never heard. Yeah I think yeah. I don't do that either. Man It's because I don't usually do that. Yeah I don't usually do start. Yeah Yeah I think that's why this mental block that I haven't done before so for me to randomly like she's like you know watching Netflix. I'm like okay. Good night. Mom I give her kids go to sleep. Is that dog. Can we close the windows. Are they all close is that is that one close. I think it's open. Can you please disguise marcus. Closing the dog. I hope you can't hear it. Oh thank you please close it mark but yeah it. It's still out anyways times. What about you and no not really honestly I would say I love you to my mom every now and then on like those little special moments we have but it's not like a normal routine I haven't said I love you to my dad in a long time. We just don't really have that kind of relationship censorship and say I don't say I love you to my brothers either like I thank you and all that but you thank. Yeah well yeah I don't say love you. The only person I say I love you too is like my mom and that's really much it Yeah interesting kill them no no yeah. I don't know if it's not it's not saying might right. My Dad is just not sentimental. Like that like He. Doesn't that too interesting. Maybe like a white suburban dad. Hey Kiddo eh one place involve yeah. How'd you show appreciation? Do you think it's like I mean there's different ways right. So what's pure appreciation language so like physical touches it. Words of affirmation is a gifts for you guessing where it's License ICAL right. Yeah I think words of affirmation words of affirmation I think mine is doing stuff for them that too. Yeah yeah that that that how it kind of showed it. What about for your friends see show appreciation for your friends? I mean I like to think I show appreciation but I don't say it out loud. Yeah no I don't say it. Like honestly Isaac. I appreciate appreciate you but which I should start seeing more now. I think they just I feel like some people like. Yeah okay. It sounds like you aren't Yeah I I say to my friends and yeah when I text it and then you're like okay. I'm like a high school. Maybe it's not something that they're used to. So that's what I think about like when someone tells me they appreciate me. I don't really show much emotion back because it's like in my head I'm like I know. Yeah I Someone's I really appreciate as a fan in my head. I'm like dying I'm like squirming on my Think you can't show emotion. I have this weird thing with emotional like freaking out or something Yeah Now Like yeah I don't really go around saying I appreciate you to. My friends are not necessarily just saying well. You make obviously you're preaching issue number. Anything I mean I always say thank you when he thinks you thank you. Thank you interesting. So there's no like younger like hey thanks for being my friend I really how do I. I don't think I do know. Oh tomorrow. The time gale at school we shall think every Thanksgiving is just like I said I have a weird time freaking our like showing emotion. You know I in my mind. I play scenarios. I'm like I just wish it'd be like I appreciate you guys so much. Thank you so much for everything and then I in real life actually just pretty quiet. I mean just can't do it. I can't bring out the words. I think it's just a symptom. You know that once it starts kind of weird once because I think I had one friend Kelly. She texted me she was I hate. I really appreciate you no as ever gone this. It opens your eyes once you don't when you see someone being really nice and you know showing such kindness it makes you really WanNa do it back and it makes you feel appreciate one person you feel like doing whatever. Yeah just feel so good about Do you actually do this to everyone. Dude you need to charge your phone. I know why are you such a hater. Are you going to buy me a new one. ooh That's big words money. How many years asset really what your college debt owed says? I'M GONNA be in debt. WHO Says I'm I'M NOT GONNA win? The interest scholarship scholarship the scholarship piece off. Everything can you go to any college or I mean. Uh well if you not accepted to like no. I don't think I'm GonNa get discussion except matter matter as long as you're not in that case you still getting scary being in debt. I know it is you think my God okay. Well I guess we're like taking off the Thanksgiving spirit but being is kind of scary you know for college in general That's why I don't want to go to college because I don't WanNa did that match me. Two hundred thousand dollars in that. Well that just depends on the school hundred thousand two and the financial aid again. It's like your major your degree three and you can't find a job that's why you asked to be wise in choosing your major like I hear like sometimes like people people make fun of like business majors or like art majors especially our. Yeah if you don't know what to do be a business. Major cool thing was a business major thing. It was like a good major. Yes so it. Isn't that like the top major people choose and Harvard yet but people make fun of it. I don't know why I didn't know that people that don't know what I mean. That's true chill. Everyone computer science. Oh you want to know how to code such a scale good money. But then there's a thing where robots will just learn how to code. That's GonNa take a little. I think so like ten years from now I've robots know how to Code. Robots can basically do everything. Yeah I think so. Well maybe not you think they're gonNA take our jobs. Robots Yeah not me Oh if we get if they get advanced enough. I'm sure they could do it all. Yeah I'll create a robot like the another human has a conscious menu. My God we are robot that can cook just automate coating. Yeah it's kind of like algorithms pretty sure. That's like cody. Coating learns people have to Code To make now rob Rob Robert Role. Oh by doing that thing exactly the kind of have to learn through it. Wow it's crazy you could do with code. Oh my God. How do you begin to figure that out? It's crazy you to be. You know how we got sick -nology because you know that okay. Is the doctor stone. All I it's crazy. How they go like from communications like a cell phone? Yeah and how they use like sound waves always and how they capture it like this podcast. How did this Mike Capture my voice? Yeah it's so weird ways like what's it about Dr Stone Yeah So I WANNA see the whole synopsis. But basically brief so from the present day like now they turned to stone and then they were everybody in the world tourney system and then he turned back to human in like three thousand miles later and the world is like out primitive again rebuilding society from Zion. Oh are there still humans. Yeah but I. I don't know anything there are primitive like in the past. That sounds cool building everything. Through scientific he knows the president and the people still like made out of stone. And then you can bring back to life using this liquid nitrogen wherever they pay back bringing everyone back easy to track he wants to. But then there's this other guy that doesn't want to and he wants to keep it like idealistic. We're only good people or not adults. Not like the rich Wasi adults. Don't come back. Why because his because he believes that society was was tainted from those people that ritual see people that sounds cool that sounds pretty cool recommendation? Asian now watch dude dude. I was on to talk and Like I said I really want to talk because some of mine. What do you mean star Tick Tock talks but like for t t l like I said and lies like two episodes or something? I WANNA do it. You know what we should do we we should do the drifting find because that one did well. Yeah Twenty twenty nine thirty. Yeah thirty thousand likes video onto talk. It's drifted monochrome outfits except it's realistic. Because I was like doing a parody of if this one do that does that and I just put on like literally yellow gym shorts with the Yellow Long sleeved blue gyms with the blue long like shirt and it did pretty. Well Oh and I kind of wanted to do that. And on the topic of that. How do you feel about good well? Is it good. Are these gummy. Because they're people donate only close in and they resell them for profit. Oh Oh oh things to what like shoes and and Hybrid Clo- yeah all get them bad thing about it is because A different type of people go into Google. The I think the bad thing about it is that people are angry because they donate the clothes and they resell them pretty extensively for us closed first and then they make all the prophet and they're making themselves rich without doing much charity work. I guess I was thinking like. Aren't we still sell it for like two too expensive really isn't it. I like seven dollars or yeah but I mean I don't know considering donated might be might be able to be cheaper ice. I've seen things are like fifteen. which probably doesn't need to be that much? And then there's the Salvation Army I think they're are hated because they donate to like hate groups suction though some things like that and then there's also the like shopping at thrift store is bad you you know like you know how it's been a fad recently to Shop at thrift thing. You think he's a bad a bad Trend I don't think it's a bad trend really saving money but what about and you taking the good clubs from them. That's the argument. Oh Yeah probably not the best Brown also one close. It's really hard. Yeah because you're going to think about because you're GONNA be. You're like one of those people that nevermind nevermind I one of the people that also kind of work clothes. Yeah like Sherlock we can afford more things than usual but still really hard. It's nice to save money goes does the I I. We can use that money for rent or something. Yeah there's a lot of people that can afford nicer clothes but maybe once a month and coins like a good well you know. I think they're talking mostly about the bridge privileged people that are probably middle-class. TYCO thrifty probably. I don't think there's about. Yeah really for free and reduced lunch. We're talking about people that like pay full price for their. AP Lang Exam. But then I feel like that would be coming because 'cause they don't really need they can buy nice clothes or They taking so that's why a lot of people are like not very into the drifting trend but coming off off of that. I want to tell you about her sponsor who is who do you think it is deep up all my God. You got the HAG do how do they do you. That is crazy depot. Good question let me let me tell you about the pop. So deep rob is the fashion marketplace APP. Where the world's creatives it's come to buy sell and discover unique fashion? Basically go on the APP. You could upload items that you WANNA sell clothing hats shoes whatever you want to sell and band basically people can just scroll around save the like your thing. They buy it straight from the APP and you make money. They get their item. Everyone's it's happy. It's a pretty cool APP and we do have a deep up by the way at teenager. Underscore therapy uploading some new items when you hear this so if you like come you want to have our clothes. Have Kayla's close go rhino. Maybe that's true. Go into the pop. Download the APP for Android now or had to D- Pop dot com to get started. Beautiful Girls Bhai Sean Kingston. Oh my God Sean Kingston to boom Fokker that's why they won't run wearing you. Sign soon cassirer. When they says no no no no no none of nine to nine home on Did you see that talk. I tweeted it too is like I found the best. And this group of Trinity Kids. I guess that's a college college or something. Probably like a private. And they're like Tuxedos. Acapella is like good Sean Kingston and then like the story. Are you singing. Everyone's making the be snapping shack. We were show so you usually have lying Shaqra Lyon we we should isolate Blatt acapella and try to do it. So we'll get to this one. It is cool is pretty good like I do and Azizullah Kermit. I can take from the background at our place. Private School Ready. Almost there shocker. Sh sure sure what it is. I thought that was so cool. Dude perfect no love yes perfect. Isn't that like ban what we look the fifth harmony was the TV. It's a movie a movie. There's three of them right. The first one is really good. Oh It's a movie eh. Musical no involves USA Siamese. Yeah it is a musical the history. That's her favorite movie exact. Do No favorite musicals are the best. One is like warm and cozy cozy musical workout That's my eight that's what. ICU musical It's really good. Yeah really get like ten Danton recommend hairspray that Acapella. I WANNA start Acapella. No but we need somebody with a deep voice. Do I can't go deep already. Brian Sean Kingston your way to booze. fluker my ask boom boom boom among and whoa wait maybe Calico the bomb deportees. Boom Boom Boom Beck actually came out and that somehow uh-huh Boom Thomas you can have a deep voice heard boom boom speaking of Detroit. Okay so this is actually good. Good gives me say I don't know say something. A deep man would say like with a deep mad. Say Okay just say. I don't like bananas. Oh I don't like in new drop by Travis. You see the new job by Travis. Goodyear what what I was saying is anyways. See these are the casual episodes. Where I'm not even gonNA edit this out? We know you're probably going to be confused. I get it. You're listening listening to us when you're like what are they talking about. But the purpose for this episode. It's just to keep you company. Keep you some background noise. Li like those like you really like those. Don't you uh you tend to listen to them. You know what I think. I think we should start speaking speaking to them. That's you in Iraq. Were in their ears. We're in your ears right now. So we're here. Hello are you you you are enjoying that cup of coffee. Has Your homework as what to say how you enjoy your homework. Oh my God. I just realized voice messages. Do we haven't haven't own up and exciting for those I've been I've been exciting. I've been excited for those One thing you know Kelly Oh. She was like showing me that she used to write the quotes of things we set an episodes. Were we sound Kinda poetic. Do Yeah one by mark and Thomas was like not all good things lasts forever in sometimes. You just Kinda have to come to the realization that everything has an end or something like that take. It was pretty cool. It's pretty cool. And what's funny is that she even included our arms like so I was going going to go but I thought that was cool. Maybe we should start getting. I want to see that he. Yeah it was pretty cool But anyways hope you're enjoying this episode so right now we're going to transition to voice messages. Have you sent one of USA one. But if you haven't kind of want you please. You're listening sleep. I really want Fan Mail Fatima. Po Box yes your mail I do want I. Can you send us some floor. We be sent. I want you to send me letters like I want to. I like hanging up letters. Get in my room and drawings and stuff like that let me to meet. Well what kind of anything really I have marks. Six letter marks there on the top of my room. Yeah Yeah I'll show you later this on the top of my room. Yeah it's goes on the ceiling. Yeah it's not on the ceiling. It's like on top of the doorway. That's where I have. Oh my God yeah you you had a note is not we never did yeah. I just realized that kid I used to write letters to remember one time I know wiles through the exposed sentimental crime with the pen writing a letter I would write them. Well I ruin my sister like my sister's dog to Max. The new like I appreciate you love what I was doing. I remember when I was young. used to paint my mom pictures so I could send the to her on Monday. Still have those freaking paintings and I everytime I look at my cry I cried right. I was like when I grow up. I WanNa buy you a house. That's two stories talk or can have one dog. There's going to be a tree outside with the swing on it with the white offense and the doors going to be read and the roof is going to be blue and I still had the drawing and then it had like me and my mom and there was like a heart above us and said like mum. Yeah and that's my story of how I became a painter but now I want to listen to voice messages. You guys. It's Alexis from England. I just love you guys on conduits Burton written word now Enough McLaughlin and people sleeping I love you guys. You guys the best thing that's ever happened to lie for my ends richly vice you guys keep up making. Let's face every single day every single day of court. And that's what I meant to say. H by they also so glad they you for V from England. Thank you for being born in England and for whispering at eleven pm Lutheran absolutely hating you therapy on my name's Anderson. I'm from Australia is WanNa say I love your podcast. So much helped me. They helped me a lot past two months. have been of of times. It helps when Dylan can do podcast. No that is really does people that can relate to in the hope. One day that I can have a group of friends as close host. Tighten it is you guys but I was wondering if you guys could make an episode on studying and like stopping stopping procrastination because something I really struggle. With at school me enough condemn ick. Yeah thanks teenager therapy. I sounds those as Eh queuing episode. Yeah that's really good. That's like he's just so naive. Genuine Hughes young too. Oh my Gosh Josh. Thank you the Irish back part. Three thirty two seconds long refund imitate some sounds for you is. This is a fire or fire truck and a lot more okay. We'll solving twitter audience. WE WE'RE GONNA call out for good okay do it. Everyone's names one of them's called Georgia Georgia Georgia. I think so I WANNA do the high pitch he for some reason I imagine them in a room like the phone is on the table and they're standing far away and every time they talk to you like run to okay and then they like run back and run out of breath and when you have you money was Jay and I live in Michigan and right now so it's snowing like crazy and I'd senior intro Wa wa Voice Acts Law that well I just wanted to know that I really love your podcast. I I think it's super great like I listen to you guys all the time mainly with my headphones in and I'm always like being super emotional through the house depending on the episode and I'm pretty sure my mom thinks I'm crazy crazy but I love you guys doing what you lean. Thank you having snow. I know right the You know we we get more listeners from other parts of the world in the US. Australia Australia Britain. And we don't get or maybe they just don't say that 'cause like you know this is what you said. They were from Michigan. Yeah this morning from Michigan. But I'm just saying maybe we don't realize but I see a lot of Australia Australia Australia world. There's a lot of Australia coming to St. Mary's lost a big snakes over there. Yeah they're like upside down so I think they had to strap down. I don't know gravity's weird over there. Yeah did you get bit by mosquitoes. Now I'm off. Oh my soul's else okay anyway do we have any announcements. Oh my God merch cannot log this merge I it really WANNA get out by December at least a week before it's tight deadline. What happened when we said last time right now in reality three weeks four weeks lead? Gosh I know I know we will has a really tight deadline. We're GONNA be able to make it look tribe us. I'll do my best like sorry about the last time six five months for sure. There's there's no way it's going to pass January. I know that for sure because everything's done take this time. The beanies were a lot more complicated because of the weird texture in like the logo and stuff. But but this time. It's a Hoodie so all we really need to worry about getting the color right now. One you go wrong yet wants. The color is right. We like the fit that color we have planned designed. So you're young I really don't WanNa go black or white. I want colors different hand. You know more unique than just another black or white Hoodie. That's what I think. But that's one announcement Go check out the pop. Go to our account you know. I'm I'm watching you. Download depot and follow us at teenager. Underscore therapy You guys have anything well since It's GonNa be Thanksgiving this week for people in the US. Thank you for listening to US really appreciate you with thankful for you for all the messages to their instagram through here. Yeah those kind words really do help La. Aw like seeing them does make me happy. I swear Sell Inc for listening and we'll see in the next episode by.
Our Season Finale Starring the Founders of She Podcasts and Skyes husband Don
"Hello and welcome to inside podcasting the show in which creators discussed their craft. I'm your host. Sky. Pillsbury. This is a post show episode, but we're doing things just a little differently today I all chat with Elsie Escobar and Jessica Kupperman about last week's interview with sixteen nineteen producers, a Diese Egan and Anti Brown Jessica and Elsie our the founders of she podcasts a community that helps women and non binary podcasters through every step of their podcast journey. The pair met online years ago and joined forces to create a free facebook group that now has over seventeen thousand members. Jessica Elsie also hosts a really fun podcast called she podcasts in which they talk about all things podcasts, and they are the founders of she podcast live an in person conference I attended their inaugural event last year and it was wonderful. Their next event is scheduled for next. October. that's October of twenty twenty. One For the second half of our show due to popular demand I am bringing back my husband. We will take a look back at the season. I hope you enjoy today's conversations and I'll be back at the end to wrap things up. I am thrilled today to have with me, Elsie Escobar and Jessica Cup for men who are the founders of she podcasts. They are also the women I consider to be my podcast Mama's. Even. Though I am almost one hundred percent sure that I'm over than them both. So with that welcome Jessica and Elsie, I'm so happy to have you here. Think. You yes. All right guys you are my guest hosts and I'm your subject and I'm ready for you go. Just you have the questions I will chip in. Okay. There are so many shows and episodes right now in podcasting about race and racial relations. So why did sixteen nineteen speak to you specifically? Honestly it made me feel angry that I had not Known so much of what was talked about in this podcast. Hadn't learned any of it in school and I went to a very good public school and yet I felt like everything I was hearing felt new to me obviously I knew basic facts about Abraham Lincoln and the civil war and things like that. But I did not understand any of the nuance and I certainly did not understand how happened what felt like so long ago right it did sorta feel to me like ancient history did not understand how connected it was to our current world. For example, healthcare I had no idea that I mean our healthcare's. Louis it was mind blowing like the fact that we have the worst healthcare system of any developed nation and the fact that that can be traced. So clearly back to the fact that we did not want to allow black enslaved people or even black UNIN slaved people to have equal healthcare. You know the fact that we can trace that back is. Rushing and tragic, and it's tragic for all of us you know and those kinds of realizations just felt so jarring and I had a real emotional reaction to listening to the podcast both because I just felt so much more empathetic to people who are living the black experience in the US but also it was also emotional because I felt cheated of that knowledge and so the reason why I wanted to talk to the people and I still feel so incredibly fortunate that I was able to get them on the show and bring shine. Any kind of light on that for other people was incredibly rewarding and that's why I wanted to have him on on the show they. It's funny. I've thought about this like they talk in the episode about how they want to lift up Nicole's work and I felt that in talking to them, I was hoping to lift up their work and Nicole's work. You know sort of getting even more Meta here but just wanting people to recognize and see this podcast and maybe have the same kind of transformative experience listening to it that I did. I had a visceral emotional physical reaction to listening because there was a deeper connection in human experience human to human and a true understanding of a lived experience in my body, which is something that I often speak about when it comes to podcasting that podcasting isn't embodied experience versus the rest of the media that we have. So a lot of other media sometimes movies sometimes you know watching TV and things like that are a little bit more lean back and when you're listening to a podcast more than likely, you are doing something more likely than not you're living your life at that time and because you are in your body and having a physical experience when you're listening to these stories. They actually become embodied in your life and therefore they trigger deeper parts of you ended. Yeah. I'm so passionate passionate about podcasting itself because that's one of the first places that you actually reach a deeper consciousness if you wanNA talk about it from that perspective and the. World right and part of it is that you know when I in my other life when I was teaching yoga and I was helping people relax and teach them something called. You're new draw, which is like Yogi sleep. It's a way in which you can finally allow your body to move into a place of deep deep deep relaxation that all looks like sleep but you're not truly one hundred percent asleep, and one of the triggers that you do is that you tell people. Listen to the sounds of the room listen to like all the sounds of the room start. With that you know the air conditioning and the cars outside and you walk people through that, and then you expand it because you make the the sounds become universal, spacious, and wide in that really allows you to go way deep inside of your subconscious and when I started to listen to sixty nineteen. This is what happened. I heard all of the sounds and the life. And then in that way I was like placed it's it was a very strange experience me in a good way right of being immersed and therefore I I had loaded on my in my daughter's. IPAD the entire series and I was going to go just go listen to it as if like it'll solve all your problems. Just. You know you will know all the things now but once I, I listened to it I thought Oh pies. I want? Her. To have that experience of. Giving her space to listen to one of the episodes and then have the space to talk about what she experienced not lead her into having an experience but to just give her the opportunity to share with me what she learned from listening and even that in itself I think starts to break down. Beliefs that we may have right because didn't we see When I sent you that tweet about I don't even. I don't even remember what it was but i? Like the guy was like sixteen nineteen is some kind of yet. I was like. It was Mike Pompeo, it was some tweet about. It. was something horrible. It was horrible. was like sixty nineteen is like an assault on our country or or. Something or other and I was like what are you taught like it felt like they were talking about something completely different like was was a mickey mouse movie in they're like Oh that that horror movie that we just watched was in your did you watch the same thing? We just what so? Yeah. I you know I have a couple of things. Wait I want to say in response first before we get to to Pompeo I do just want to acknowledge that I. Think you made such a good point about how we sort of embody or internalize what we hear in podcast in a different way than we do with with a lot of other media because I've watched many documentaries about the civil. Rights movement and slavery and things like that, and although many of those images do stick with me the really painful footage for example, that you'll see of cops beating black men in the streets or whatever. It is Dick with me nothing has come close to the feelings that this podcast listed in me, which really turned me into like woke me up like this podcast. Woke me up in a way that. I haven't ever felt woken up in the past on these issues and turned me into like an evangelist. Know I was telling everyone you have to listen to this podcast I haven't had that same reaction and as you're saying what you're saying like, obviously the content was incredible and they did an amazing amazing job making the show but I also think that you've hit on something which is that it found. My consciousness in a way, it was able to make its way into my brain in a way that other stuff just hasn't been able to penetrate in the same in the same impactful way. So I just WANNA acknowledge that before we go away from it but the other thing I do want to bring up to you know so I I obviously was paraphrasing whatever that tweet was from Secretary Pompeii. Oh I do want to acknowledge also that there have been criticisms of this podcast. Some historians have had some qualms about some of the facts behind the show although I think that the history and the the message of the podcast remains unchanged. I personally stand completely behind the work of Nicole Hannah Jones and and the whole team, but I have had some people say. Or who said to me before I was going to interview Antionette. Diese. Are you going to ask them about that and I want to just address that for any listener who who wondered that same thing, and then maybe wondered why and Yeah I do WanNa just clarify that number one my podcast is a podcast about how podcasts are made. It. On their credibility, right right. Right and also I believe that everything that podcast gave to me is true. You know if I had interviewed Nicole Hannah Jones then there's a possibility I guess that that might have come up or that I might have felt like, oh, I want to give her a chance to clear the air but that's not who I'm talking to in this podcast. Talking to makers, and they have very very different story to tell and I felt like if I was going to have that conversation that the different podcast and that would have taken us completely off track from what I believe my listener wants to hear which is how in the world when this didn't even get green lighted until you know July how did you put out? This award winning show six episodes of incredible ness in August you know like, how did you do that and so that was really the focus of the show. Some people would say or might say that you have no business being about this issue. Were you nervous about receiving backlash for diving into a show about issues that may or may not be quote your concern unquote. you know I I wasn't because I have such a strong argument against that I mean. Is it not my business because I'm White Lake I think one of the points of the podcast was that and actually something that you didn't hear in last week's episode was. A Jesus saying that she wants anybody who listens to this podcast who either lives this experience or for people who are completely new to this experience to be talking about it. She wants you know she's she's hoping that it does have impacts on everyone no matter what your background and I think that it is as much a part of my business and should be my business as much as anybody else's that you know things aren't going to change unless we all believe that they should change. So I wasn't worried about that to be honest. The only thing that worried me was you know the same things that worry me in any interview, which is like, am I, GonNa say something stupid. You know perhaps part of it is I'm not there to talk about necessarily racist issues. You know like I've heard through you know I've heard I've listened to Nicole on many many podcasts were. That's the subject. That's what she's addressing I feel lucky in a way that I get to have a conversation that is about this show that I'm incredibly passionate about. And that comes through and the importance of it comes through but I don't have to be the expert in the show. I get to be the person who's just so curious about the behind the scenes of the show and that in a way insulates me. But on the other hand, I wouldn't WANNA be insulated like if they're a question had come up. And probably some dead. But you know I, I can't remember specifically about these issues if something comes up like that, like I also feel so open right now about these issues and so I'm like thirsting for knowledge. Yeah and Thursday for understanding how I can do better and how I can change the world in a meaningful way for the better for all of us and particularly. Obviously for black lives but I think that that involves everybody getting on board and so I wasn't afraid I wasn't afraid for that reason I've learned with online conversation that if you try and participate as a white person, oftentimes, it is not your place to participate but to learn and be quiet and so on under present. So offering your opinion and your experiences not always welcome. Learn that from being smart I learned it from opening my mouth of being stupid. I don't WanNA learn that lesson anymore, which is why Which is why I think I would be and there's this one awkward moment I'll just leave with the store because it haunts me it's so minor and I know I'm going tell you them feel stupid. But no, tell us the perfect example I was at podcast movement and Heaven and Tracy from the buzzfeed show another round were per presenting about having more diversity on your how to be more diverse in your podcasting how have more diverse guests and stuff like that and I had a legitimate question that I wanted to ask but also because I can't resist wanted to be funny. So by some miracle they call on me, right? I mean. I stand up and I go. This is my joke I go. But what if black people don't like me? And they both looked like what the fuck? Like. I. At second, both of them looked at me like. I'm just kidding here's my question and plowed over it and moved on. Don't I feel like that was actually brave thing to. Me It haunts me because I know somewhere out there that remember that dumb girl. Well okay, let's pick that apart for a minute. Here's Rick six years ago. I think that what you're doing is you're being honest about your fears that out about it and you know so much humor comes out of terror. Yes. Yeah sadness. Yeah and I and I think I think you saying what if they don't like me is a completely legitimate fear because that's part of the crux of this. You know we just need to be able to feel safe enough to have those conversations about whether whether we are feeling fear and if we if that remains a secret, then we're not really being honest about what our experiences and and then if. We can't address it and we can't change it. I've had black friends my whole life I only started being afraid of it when it mattered to me. Like all of a sudden it matters. An ally that I'm not saying the wrong thing you know. I always say the wrong thing it's never bothered me before but like all of a sudden if I if I do say the wrong thing. Cancel culture will make your life a living hell. Yeah, and so that is really I'm less scared of hearing from black people or Asian people than I am having someone over here this conversation and be like this girl has a problem with racism. Right. I mean, like my next door neighbors growing up were Haitian like I've been I've never had. It's not the kind of thing where like I hadn't seen a black person toast sixteen. Yeah. I've had friends my whole life and it. Never, even occurred to me to think anything differently about it until. Later. And I, mean that's also why I think it makes me so angry that like they went to my school and her the same bullshit as me I know and did they go home and think it was real. Did they go home and here Oh that is bullshit. Here's the real story like I'm dying to know their parents knew that either. Right. This has been such a fun conversation. It's so interesting like the different perspectives. Yes. A little better. About it, I feel like it's a conversation that I want to continue having with you guys in some form maybe when I see you in person finally, when is that GonNa Happen I mean. Gore. She podcast live. It's not before him the next pl. Is October Fifteenth Eighteenth Twenty Twenty one in Scottsdale Arizona. My side of the country and I want to clarify SP AL is she podcast live? You will only be there if there's a vaccine, he's made that very clear to me. Pounds on their lives there. Yeah. That's right. Down the street? Yeah. Yeah. You Will Williams one of my guests season really cool you live. Like, a stone's throw from Yvo. We digress once again, thank you guys so much for coming on the show I really really enjoyed this conversation. Share it with listeners I told them on last week's episode which I don't know if you heard the final cut but I did say that this episode which we haven't recorded yet I would be talking with you about the episode and also just like whatever else comes up and I love the part where whatever else came up it was fascinating to me. So thank you for being with us and that's a wrap. Hey. I'm good. How's Wyoming? It's good Clark, and I went on a fun hike today and he told me about all the stuff that he learned a camp but we are. Waiting for the arrival of the other half of our family and missing you guys. Yeah we're excited to see you just in a few days I. Know Know What? So? I am excited to share that I clocked in my final recording for inside passing season two. Unless. Of course, we play this recording on the podcast and that means this will be the final recording that I'm I'm done. It's rap she's in is in the CAN? Do they say that they can't I know you said that you could say in the books or in the fan. How are we doing now? There's over. I have mixed feelings on the one hand I. Feel Proud that I pulled it off and I feel like it was a good season I'm I'm really happy with every. Every episode and every interview on the other hand. You know it's bittersweet because I've made the decision to. Leave inside it's totally amicable but it's time for me to do something new and so that means I won't be hosting this podcast and I'm you know of course I feel I feel sad about that but you know the magic of podcasting is I can create something else and maybe even own a a bit of whatever I'm taking next time so yeah. So it's a weird moment but it's exciting and it's it's bittersweet as I said, yeah. No mixed mixed emotions for sure and I have since that from you over the last couple of weeks as you have brought this season to close. you feel about the fact that the podcast is ending that this work at least for right now. You know won't be least the immediate future I won't be telling you please be quiet. Well, I record. I think I speak for the kids as well are pretty excited for little break from. Inside podcasting central in our home we love it. As we know it makes you happy and you've done such a great job, but it'll be nice to have mom not always consumed with the world of podcasting. All the time. But that said I know that you're not leaving that world and I'm sure that you're going to be consumed by some other aspect of it fairly soon. So I'm not expecting too big a break from Sky Pillsbury. That's probably realistic. So question I had for you was now I think inclusion season to. Season one for you as such a Labor of love you've never done anything like it before you were really kind of building the plane while you're flying it literally. What were the were there things you learn season one that we're really helpful in making season to like smoother made it easier and the other side of that is, was there anything about season one that you thought you had learned that was gonNA makes he's into easier and wasn't like like Oh like now that I'll do this season who's GonNa be breeze, but that didn't end up being the case. Yeah those are both good questions I'm not sure that any. Well, okay. Yes. I was less nervous about doing it. I done it. You know there's just you know you get into a routine like there's some muscle memory and sort of figuring out you know how to research someone how to prep for an interview things like that. But I actually feel like I did make changes between season. One Season Two, I'm not sure if they made it easier. In fact I think that they made it in some ways harder and more time consuming. But they were changes that I felt really good about and actually you know one of them came from a listener or reader while the reader analysts ner and I've mentioned him before John. Kasich had suggested that I play clips of the show in. The intro episodes so that people would be more likely to listen if they weren't familiar with the show until I ended up doing that but you know, of course that was more time consuming you have to take witchcraft and that's not always the easiest process and I also decided you do like a cold open like take a piece of my interview with ask my subject and put it at the very. Top and that's also takes up sometimes the other thing that I did that was very different. Was You know I did these post show episodes like what we're doing right now and you know in season one those were only five minutes long and I think you might remember there was a day when I was just feeling overwhelmed it was a few months ago and I was feeling just overwhelmed by life and. You know remote school and covert and just everything everything just felt like it was just too much and I I really really wavered on this idea of making these polls show episode more in-depth like you know turning them in more to actual episodes known teasing one they were five minutes long decided to do this thing where I had a different guest in every episode and really really broke down the previous week's episode and it was more of an effort and I just thought I can't handle it and. I talked to Yvo who is has been the producer for season two and. You know he didn't talk me out of it but he just sort of said, I feel like you are looking way ahead and sort of feeling overwhelmed because you're thinking like every single episode that you have to make and everything of Edit. And maybe you need to step back and just realize that like the only thing you have to get done in the next two weeks is a MD and that's it, and then you can wait and that turned me around and I think you encouraged me also. So thank you for that and I'm really glad I did it. It was harder. It did take more effort but I think it was worth it. I. Mean. I'd love to hear from listeners. You know whether they enjoyed those post show episodes because in the end they ended up being really fun for me. They were way less pressure. They were more casual. I didn't edit them quite as much because they're opposed show episode and I really enjoyed that process. It was very different than the process I put myself through. With the regular interviews. I definitely remember encouraging you. I can't remember this was I being sort of selfish understand that was going to be one of the guests and. have. It, for you know. An effort to launch my own podcast audio career. Yes, podcast start them. So and also you would ask me what did you think without major wasn't Right. So I thought that because I had done a lot of editing in season one that it would be easier to edit and season two or that I would at least maybe I would record shorter like for less time and so yet ending wouldn't be as hard and that I realized was it was just as hard this season I I can't help myself from talking to people until I've exhausted like every curiosity that I have. And so I still talk to people for probably way too long I still edited like crazy because I just again, I can't help myself so that I thought would be easier for season two and I sort of at one point was really like I've got only record for forty minutes and put out twenty minute episodes and that just for certain happen. Well I think your listeners appreciated what you did put out because I think twenty minutes for some of these would have been too short. So. Well done well done sky. Thank you. Thank you. Did you make any. As you look back and season to whether any like clear mistakes that you made that you either weren't able to fix or you didn't realize their mistakes until today you know any sort of any misgivings. I feel really good about season two I think I still struggle with. The people who've been in radio for a really long time. Say you're always supposed to say hello listener or like treat the person on the WHO's listening as a single person in season two I just didn't even. I didn't know that or didn't pay attention to that and. At the beginning of every episode, I was like Hey guys and I actually remember seeing a tweet from someone I. Wish I could remember who it was with some well-known podcast or and whoever it was posted something like. God like the podcast or who are coming into our space and saying, Hey, guys at the beginning of every episode. Like they must be like they must be the people who are used to being on youtube and feel like they're on television. We're still not first of all I've never recorded on Youtube but. That's neither here. Nor there the tweets just made me feel like such a total like idiot. I've. Dried then to definitely not say, Hey, guys, you may have noticed that I say, hello and welcome to Blah Blah I don't even say. Hello but I have a couple of times caught myself saying hello listeners or something listeners but you know I can only do the best. I can do you know and we're all learning. Yeah, and we can't Oh reacts ever tweet. That's tweeted out there right? Right. Right. You're right. So I. Think as people have been asking me about the initial phone call that kicked off the season and and asking whether it was planned or staged, and how would you the of me? Yeah and you know it couldn't have been four we plan because there's no way you were playing having the key not work but can you walk us back through that first day and provide some? More context around it. Was As part of your evil plot as Jonathan Goldstein, once said to me about something similar to this. I'm not that much of an evil genius. It was definitely not planned. I definitely had no idea that on that morning that I was headed to Kansas wishes office that McKee would not work. So that was depending on how you look at it. That was a horrible disaster or serendipitous as it turned out because it was didn't end up being kind of a fun. Thing to play the beginning of that episode you know, of course, there's no way that you're going to record a phone call without being aware that you're recording a phone call. So I did have the wherewithal which maybe I would not have had in season one. I did have the thought in my head of like this might be funny thing to have, and so I recorded it and called you and so that's all completely real. But of course I knew what I was doing. Oh, I'm recording this thing I did then forget about it and because that was an episode that I recorded early or day was. In the process of creating season two. So by the time I had uploaded at Yvo asked me like what is this he listened to it and he was like I can't understand what this is about. Sounds like you a maybe your husband something happened with a key. So when I in back door and it was really fun for me because it was like, oh, I kind of forgot that happened and I was so happy that I had to do it and it did turn out to be like a really fun thing to put the beginning and I guess it's just like a lesson learned like if you have the opportunity to record yourself doing something kind of fun and you know for the most part totally authentic like do it because you never know whether it might come in handy later. Well. It's funny. You say that because it reminds me a lot of startup which is sort of podcasts that at least got me way into podcasting and one of the first ones we listened to together and that was the mantra they recorded everything every late night conversation between you know Alex and his wife you know that was the mantras always basically record everything. So yeah, I think. You you taking a little bit from from the startup. Exactly yeah. So. What are you most proud of? As you think of season two would or season one into what are you most proud of? I'm just proud that I did it I mean I'm just proud that I took that plunge I think it's so scary to do something like this the to put yourself out there. You know, and then of course, even to the present it all sorts of additional challenges and you know with sort of for me like the Juggling of my responsibilities during the school year and. And writing the newsletter I mean it's hard. It's hard to do all of that. So I. Yeah. I think I'm just proud that I pulled it off and that I. That I needed happen you know I I would hope that I I mean I have not I haven't quenched my thirst for having these kinds of conversations. You know it's time for me to live inside but I'm definitely not leaving podcasting and I definitely want to continue to have these kinds of conversations people because. As I said at the end of one of these episode one of the interviews I did I think with Shima from Dolly? Parton. America. Like I am just endlessly fascinated. I feel like there's just an endless amount of creative work that's happening and. I want to still be in it and involved in it and learning from it. So yeah, I guess just that that very simple thing like I fucking dead it. We're proud of you two. Did you have a different approach to how you chose your guests in season two I. Think it's he's a one I. Think you were just sort of frill that people were returning your emails But season two, you had one belt. Did you have a different strategy as to sort of who you were trying to get and sort of how you're trying to cultivate the show? Actually. Yes and that's funny because you and I have not vetted these questions that that question. Yes. Debt most definitely I wanted to have more diverse speakers than I did in season one. So I wanted to be more intentional with having a more diverse voices season. When I had a lot of folks who at their core were journalists and I season, I had more sort of podcast first creators. I also had to people who sort of play and the fiction space and I only had one in season one. Yeah. I mean so I I did go about that a bit differently, but I still followed my curiosity. So you know wasn't like Oh, I was like, Oh, I have to tick these boxes off. It was it was like where those two things meets, you know my curiosity and my desire to have people coming from different backgrounds either professionally or otherwise cool. A good job of both of those things I think in your listeners will probably agree you had a great Hello. Don. Hi. Hi just an example of how when you're recording a podcast really anything can happen such as lightning creating the phones to go down in Wyoming. Were you know what they say lightning never strikes twice in the same spot. So hopefully, we'll. Get through the rest of this call. All right. Hurry up me whenever the last question is or the last one. Maybe the lightning was actually symbolic of the conclusion of season two. and. That's why I'm going out with a bang as they say, you're going out with a lightning bang. alleged. My final question is and I I you know as your husband and I've got. A seat on the inside. I've got some idea but you know for your listeners. First Guy, like why why are you leaving inside and what is next I got bills were. Well I'm leaving inside because. You know. I think it would be nice to have more maybe some small element of ownership over whatever I do next I have loved inside and I am. Very. Very grateful to inside for hiring me and then writing the anti tossing newsletter open so many doors, and then he indulge me by letting me create a podcast and it's been this incredible journey like I'm really grateful. But at this point, I feel like it is time for me to sort of strike out on my own and I don't know what form that's going to take like there's lots of things that I am interested in in curious about, and so right now I'm just talking to people I'm researching stuff I'm. You know I'm just sort of opened anything in fact if anyone listening. Wants to offer me lucrative employment or wants to produce a podcast for me for free I'm I'm all ears but you know in all seriousness I really am open to whatever the next thing is going to be the only thing I really know one hundred percent is that whatever it is it'll be talk passing. So I, I, love podcast. I love has way too much to leave them and I intend to be here for the long term. Well I can jump in for your listeners and say with conviction this is not the last you have heard from Scott Pillsbury. Be Back. I hope that's true. The first step however on my journey. We'll begin with a road trip with you and our kids and I'm looking forward to that having a little bit of a change of scene, Cova style, and just letting my mind. Wander and having an adventure. And Yeah. Piece out. Well we are for you to join us for that event. Sure and huge congratulations on. A season well done and season's done and I as your husband am as excited about your next move as I'm sure you're listening listeners are so all right. We'll say I will see you see you on. Saturday love you too good. Bye. Thanks so much for listening to our season Finale and thanks to Elsie Jessica and dawn for joining me on this episode, creating inside podcasting and writing the inside podcasting newsletter has been an incredible adventure for me and I'm so honored that you have come along for the ride. What I've loved most about being part of this complicated industry is the connections I formed with listeners with creators and with everyone in between, and that doesn't have to end with this podcast, which is to say, feel free to reach out anytime. You can always find me on twitter I'm just at Sky Pillsbury or you're welcome to send me an email. I'm at skype pills work all written out at gmail.com. But, even if I never hear from you i. hope you got something out of this show I hope it entertains you or you learn something new and regardless thanks again so much for listening Oh one more thing don't unsubscribe because we have a couple of fund bonus episodes scheduled for Aug also you then. This season of inside podcasting has been produced and hosted by Skype Pillsbury. My ROIC. co-producer is ego Tara from simpler media productions. Many thanks to sound engineer Charles quickly researcher Rachel. Loden who doubles my mom and Jason Cal Canas who green lighted this project I'm also infinitely grateful to my husband to my children on and Clark and all of you for listening. What is happening here just happened is that I'm recording in my closet and my closet as one of those lights that if you if it doesn't seem motion eventually just hurt like fades out. Has just got out and I'm sitting in my dark closet. Looks. Green. I didn't therefore i. am the Dark Dark I look I look really scary. Also, kind of do I kind of looked like a serial killer? Okay. I. will now it makes even more sense return my video. So I am now earning off my video we're going to turn off video and idea.
Behind-the-scenes: Hello Monday interview
"Welcome mm to inside podcasting. This is our second many episode. We run a mini episode after every full length interview just to give you the listener a sense of some of the backstory behind that particular interview in this one. I talk with kim lyons who is the managing editor inside dot com about what it was like to interview jesse hampel the host of lincoln's podcast hello monday if you haven't heard that episode go back and listen to it first and if you have listened to it enjoy this episode is an interview with jesse hampel. Who is someone. You said. You had a friend who knew her and kind of gave you a own little profit before you went to the interview. Did you feel like okay. I got a hand on this person made. You feel more comfortable. Maybe during the interview yeah i was that was just so so <hes> lucky in serendipitous the friend who knows her was staying with me on the weekend prior to my monday interview with jesse and told me how nice she was and yeah. I walked in there sort of feeling like okay. We have this person in common who thinks you're great and so you know this. This is going to be great and she she was also. Just i mean so generous and you can hear it in that episode. She was so friendly and and lovely to me yeah that was that was a great. Just lucky break for me yeah but you guys also had something else in common that before you did you actual actual recording. Neither one of you had podcasting experience. So did you sorta bond over that too. I mean i'm guessing that was an icebreaker as well. Oh yeah well l. I mean it turned into this episode kind of feels almost like a a working session or even better like a therapy session among mainly for me <hes> because she liked me had gone <hes> you know this was her first experience at podcasting hang and and actually she is the only person i interviewed where that's true and i i mean i think i made a joke. <hes> you know i don't know if listeners will hear this or or not but i made a joke at one point during the interview that we should create a a support group for podcast hosts because because clearly there were so many questions that we could vast each other i in fact we did ask each other but i really felt like i could. I would love to just go to dinner with jesse a. and talk more about what experience has been like for her because it wasn't element of leg and what did you think of when you had to do that and how hard was this s. and hope that that's interesting to people that are listening. I mean hopefully there's you know people who are new podcasters firing. Hopefully people who are experienced will still will get a kick out of that but yeah i enjoyed that element of our talk for sure yeah it makes the conversation so much easier when the person's really generous and you feel like you you can let your guard down a little bit and just sort of yourself and ask some questions no ch russian or not yes she. She even <hes> at towards the end she even asked are rather offered. She offered to be a listener like for me if i needed someone to listen to an episode here or there i mean how how's that. That's so valuable yeah. She's she's a good person that jesse hampel. It sounds like a was a fun interview to get really really was the reaction. Thanks for listening to that many discussion about the interview with jesse. She was such joy to speak with. I hope you tune in next week. I'll the interviewing lyonnnais faulk. He is the former host of slow-burn and co creator of a new series called fiasco which you can find on luminary. I have actually interviewed leon before for the inside podcasting newsletter. We spoke in person right after he rap the second season of slow burn. If you're subscriber to inside podcasting the newsletter her i'll be running that print interview within the newsletter on wednesday of next week. If you're not a subscriber why not consider subscribing it's free you can find it at that inside dot com forward slash podcasting but i'm also happy to send it to you via email so just reach out to me on twitter and we'll work it out in next week's interview with leon we discuss his new show we discussed his work as an executive producer on the tv version of slow-burn and why he made the decision to move from slate which is where a slow burn lives to the luminary platform and finally we will talk about a book he wrote which i'm kind of obsessed with and what i found most interesting in our conversation about that were for his observations about how his work on the book is somewhat related to what he's doing. Now you can find this podcast. Wherever you find podcast you can find find me on twitter at skype pillsbury. Thank you so much for listening. We appreciate every single listener talk to you next week <music> uh-huh.
Podcast Critic and Creator Wil Williams Shares Her Origin Story
"I'm, hitting record. When deep breath and I'm GonNa take some water High. Ego. If you're listening to this Mormon go NA NA NA NA Nana. Okay. Here we go. Hello and welcome to a bonus episode of inside podcasting the show in which creators discuss their craft. I'm your host Sky Pillsbury. A few weeks ago I posted a post show episode in which my podcast friend, Ariel Nissim flat, and I discussed my interview with podcast critic and Creator. Will Williams during that episode, I revealed that due to technical mishap will and I actually recorded twice the interview with will, that I, shared with you a few weeks ago was our second recording. Today's episode is the first eleven or so minutes of our original discussion which I was able to salvage despite the technical mishap. So today, I'm releasing it for all of us here I. Hope you enjoy it. Will Williams. Welcome to the show I am so happy to have you with me today. I have been. Thank you for having Oh. Absolutely. I. Have Been Intrigued by you ever since I came across your posts on twitter you're one of the first people I came across where I don't remember what you were saying, but it was surely opinionated and. Could. It could have even been. You know a useful rant. I'm not really sure but I immediately knew this is someone that I want to pay attention to this is someone that I wanNA follow. So. For me to get a chance to just dive into who you really are because of course, at this point I have had the chance to meet you in person and we have had. Interactions they're still so much. I don't know and I have a lot of questions. So I read somewhere that you started listening to. Night. Vale and Lime Town that that might have been your first introduction to podcast. Is that right? So that was my first introduction to fiction podcasts by I was one of those people where I was listening to podcasts in a more general sense before I pods were even a thing I was downloading them on my desktop computers and listening whenever I could back in those early days of I tunes but Lime Town and Night Vale were definitely my biggest introductions to fiction, which then launched me into writing. So when you're listening to the other podcast prior to that, what happened that was different when you listen to night villain lime town that led you to feel like Oh maybe I wanNA play a role in this. In Twenty twelve, twenty thirteen. There were a bunch of fiction podcast being made and because I guess I kind of raised myself on traditional nonfiction podcasting things like radio lab and grammar girl and writing excuses when fiction podcast starting to make stir I was unfortunately in the camp where I thought that they were going to be good that they would be kind of. Poorly, produced or poorly written or kind of tacky. So I just didn't latch onto them, which is so embarrassing to see now. When I listened to night neil well, that's fascinating to me because of course. so closely to the genre. Yeah. When I heard Night Vale, it was kind of more of the same kind of thought of it as the exception to the rule, and I think part of that is because I was so set on this idea that you know all fiction podcasts kind of sounded like basically like a prairie home companion in my head that's what I was comparing it to and I liked that night failed did something so different in. So weird I mean this was again like. Twelve thirteen twenty thirteen, and back then lgbt representation, which is something that I think a lot of people fiction space take a little bit for granted now, not that we couldn't still be better, but we really had so little of that in an accessible fiction format and the main relationship in that podcast is between two men and later would go on to have trans characters and it felt really revolutionary to me and growing up in Arizona and specifically being in Phoenix for most of my life I. Latched onto. The weird desert setting usually the desserts here are basically exactly as bizarre feel feel feels like a documentary sometimes. I thought of it. Yeah. As like the exception to the rule I liked it but I didn't think it would be into more efficient podcasts but when lime town came around and my friend introduced me to it. I mean, it sounded incredible and I was working in my college radio station. At the time I had tried my hand out a little bit of production. So I knew how much went into it and it just sounded so good. They loved the writing and I've always been one four character study is and that's basically what town is like there is the mystery to it, but it's mostly vignettes of these fascinating characters and he just fell in love and then from there I just kind of dove headfirst into all the fiction I could find, and now here I am. So, you were at college at the time right were you what were you studying? Did you have parallel paths going like I'm interested in radio and I'm working at the college radio station but I- majoring in something completely different. Something completely different. I. My Undergrad degree is in English education. I was very bent on being teacher. I just worked at the college radio station for fun basically, and then you Kinda fell in love with and the more I fell in love with audio the more I fell in love with working at the station. And then I did my semester of student teaching. I graduated I worked as a substitute teacher for two months. End then hated it never been You hate it why? I loved teaching proper is loved being with the students but honestly I think that I was. I got way too emotionally involved in all of my students and to to this day. I still think back on students during that semester student teaching and wonder if they're okay Nah. Yeah. The school I worked at was amazing. I taught in Flagstaff Arizona, which is up in the mountains it's beautiful and. There was like, no, no real bullying problems but because it's a small mountain town and it's kind of isolated and everybody knows everybody there were a lot of mental health issues for the students that was compounded by the sort of insular feeling of space. So. I connect with them and I loved them and they loved teaching but it weighed way too heavily on me. Yeah. I can understand that I did some substitute teaching of my own but not for such a long period and not and not the not under those kinds of circumstances but it's hard work so. Make the jump from from doing that to starting to write about podcasts and you know what I don't WanNa talk too much about this now. But at some point, you end up going full time towards podcasts. So I'm just wondering is your story a story where you've got this dream to write about podcasts, and then there's also a career path it's happening that separate from that so. For a long time, I was very practically minded. So in my head writing podcast was the scam tastic thing. I would make some money from I started writing up podcasts back on Tumbler actually. But Laura even had my own website and back again like that you know twenty, thirteen, twenty, fourteen probably all the way up to like twenty, sixteen era the. Phantom of podcast specifically, fiction podcast on. Tumbler. was thriving and very lovely. But because I had worked in specifically production and doing some kind of minor sound design in college I noticed that everybody when they talk about fiction which about the acting and the writing nobody was talking about the editing and the sound design and it was driving me up the wall. I I felt like they deserve so much more credit so. The podcast that really got me to start writing was ours paradox Akot, which is by the whisper forage. It is the nominal Cold War time travel piece and the sound design is just gorgeous. MISHA's stanton does the sound design for almost all the whisper Ford shows they also work on the bright sessions and Lebron reads and a few others. And I started writing about their work and how much? I. Loved it and then. So. I lived in my college town in flagstaff for a little while after graduating. But then I moved back down to Phoenix for a job here and the career path was totally different. I worked in international education at universities that phrase it is. Trying to help international students say stay safe from. Laws that hate them. which you know was not necessarily a step. Away from emotional investment from working with students, right right. But it's another complex situation the short in there was yeah. But I got a job at Asu, which is one of the biggest universities in the country especially for international education move back down to Phoenix to work there and again sought like you know maybe maybe writing will be something someday we'll see started my own website, and then from there, it wasn't really until the I pod Kahn which was December. Twenty seventeen twenty, eighteen a December. which was this podcast convention out in Seattle run by the green brothers, mcelroy brothers, and the welcomes in Knightdale creators. And it was the first time, I have really hung out with people whose work I loved and whose work I had written about. And it felt amazing and it felt like there was a future there and that's when I started to pursue for real. I still figured I would be working this job at ASC with international students for much much much longer than I wound up working Mar.. But then things can took off and here I am. Thanks so much for listening to that bonus episode and thanks to will Williams. I, speaking with me twice if you didn't hear our original interview, go back and listen to that one too. I really enjoyed speaking with well, and if you enjoy this installment of insight podcasting, please do all the things. podcasters asked you to do review it on apple podcast chaser tell a friend about it or post about it on social media. This season of inside podcasting has been produced and hosted by me Sky Pillsbury my heroic co-producer is ego Tara from simpler media productions. I'm grateful to Jason Kalcala's for green lighting this project and last but definitely, not least. Thank you so much for listening.
Post-Show: What It Was Like to Interview Wil Williams
"Welcome to inside podcasting the show in which creators discuss their craft I'm your host Sky Pillsbury? This is a post show episode in which I will speak with a special guest about last week's interview. If you haven't heard that episode in which I talked to podcast, critic and Creator Will Williams, I recommend you go back and listen to that first, and then come back and listen to the post show. Today my guess is Ariel Nissenbaum Latte. Welcome to the show aerial. I am excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me. You texted me asking to be on the show. I responded within ten seconds. Is that right you did did it was so sweet? And I could feel your enthusiasm Azam coming through my phone. I'm so glad an awesome moment. You never know like Don't really have the bandwidth or Don't have the bandwidth down. Nice so you do like one hundred different things in podcasting and so I'd love for you to introduce yourself then. Maybe you can also share with our listeners where you are right now. Yes, says it's unusual. Place I'll do that first so that the people know why. There are some strange sounds going on, so currently I, am at a farm in two harbors Minnesota. Minnesota, which is somewhere near Duluth, which is on Lake Superior, it is beautiful here I'm on a farm because I'm wolfing, which stands for a worldwide organization of organic farming I'm on my way across the US on a road trip and I thought this would be a fun stop, so if you hear chickens or pigs or dogs or cats or children that what's going on. This makes it so much more impressive that you said. Yes, excitedly to my invitation to come on this show. So I started ear. Buds podcast collective, which is a weekly email that sends a theme and five podcast episodes on that theme. Each week is curated by different person I also run a podcast. A companion to that newsletter called feedback with earbud sort of similar to what you do. Sky Inside podcasting newsletter and podcast, and then I also run another podcast called counter programming Sheron an Arielle. It's a distraction casts started during covid nineteen, and we talk about anything having to do with the word count or counter, so Count Dracula step counters, kitchen counters, anything you can imagine. We're also taking suggestions. I also work for cast box. Do Marketing and business development for them? They're podcast APP and then I help with the outlier podcast festival, and then I do anything that pops up. That has to do with podcasts because I love podcasts. It is very very impressive aerial. I'm so glad that you introduced yourself. Because I'm not sure I would have remembered everything so much, so I will also add on the sound front that the city that I live in chose today to pave our street, and so in addition to sounds of cows and pigs and children on areas, and you might hear on my end paving machines, going up and down and beeping, and doing all manner of things just really like twenty feet away from me, although it sounds pretty quiet at the moment, good, Luxemburgo is in charge of editing this. Exactly okay well, let's get to it We are here to talk about last week's show aerial. What? What did you think of last week's show yes? Oh, I know, will for a long time on twitter, and on other social media platforms, so to hear will chat about her work was really enlightening I. Have to admit that I am not the biggest consumer of audio drama slash audio fiction, and so listening to will talk about it was I opening for. For me I learned a lot, and then I learned a lot through you as well, and I imagine it was kind of some new materials you is that right absolutely and I mean that's one of the reasons. I I wanted to talk to her. Was that like you? I haven't listened to as much fiction, but also I think that someone who's making a fiction podcast has a really different the they're coming from a different creative place in some way. And there's obviously other things that are involved casting and you know working with actors is a completely different ballgame, so I was really excited to talk to her. For for that reason as as well as others mean actually I'll just go ahead and say it another reason why I was. Fascinated by what she was doing. Was that like me? She writes about podcast and. You know like Kerr. I decided to take the plunge and make a podcast and when you're writing about them there is this funny thing where you feel like. Is this supposed to sound like no what I'm doing or am I gonNA? Make giant mistake. And there's a little bit of risk I think with her situation. It's more risky than just doing an interview. Show that require scripts and. Things of that nature, but it was still I could still identify with her feelings of. This is a little risky. This is sort of putting myself out there in a way that I haven't put my out myself out there before and so. I felt a kinship with that and was excited to have her on the show for that reason. All right so you and will had an interesting sub. Discussion within your interview will mention that. At first when she started in the podcasts world, she was a critic, and then she had a bunch of ideas for creative endeavors until she finally decided. Okay, let me let me go ahead and create some of these things with this. She experienced a bunch of anxiety I. Guess You could call it surrounding the question of whether or not, she could be objective critic now that she's a creator, and furthermore, if it was actually necessary to be objective as a critic so I imagine that you go through something similar when you produce both your newsletter and your podcast. You mentioned this a little bit at the top but I'm wondering if you can speak more on that. so for me. I did make a conscious choice to. For the most part only have people on the show whose work I really like or if I'm not like a a straight fan of their podcast I'm answering a different question. You know with them like I'm trying to get the answer to something different so like you know trying to to find out more about the early days of podcasting or I'm trying to answer a specific question. I'm never going to ask someone to be on this show. At least I'm doubtful. whose work I really don't like, it would have to have some other kind of angle to it. Actually I have a funny story which is that? Someone that I work with at inside. Really wanted me to interview. Someone who's in the world wide wrestling I mean wrestling podcasts are huge huge. I am not like I. Don't watch wrestling. It's not something I I keep my eye on at all, but he was a huge fan of this one guy and I'm not sure if he was a wrestler himself or he's just become a star in his podcasts. I can't actually remember because this was a while back, but I resisted it for a really long time, and then I finally said. Because he convinced me. That could be the angle like the angle could be like you don't understand wrestling podcast, and you don't understand wrestling, and maybe you can find out from him. Like why are people so? So crazy about this about wrestling podcasts. And so I I decided to at least explore it a little bit and I did reach out to the guy and he was nice. We was very rigid about how you wanted to record. He wanted to use a particular APP that I didn't feel personally was necessarily going to give you the best sound. And maybe I kind of used as an excuse not to do it. you know maybe if it was somewhat elsewhere really wanted on the show. I would like you know bent my My rules on that but I I I went back to the person. I worked with and I was like look at this. I'm not even passionate about this. He wants to totally different system. That doesn't work for me like. Let's just give it. That would have been the first example of me doing that so I guess it's possible that could happen, but like I don't feel a big I don't I don't think I feel as much of A. Push poll or a tension between writing criticism and interviewing people because I'm not I'm not doing the thing that I. That I write criticism for like I'm not It's not as clear of a line like she writes criticism about fiction podcast and she's making fiction podcasts. I write mostly about like new shows ner coming in and what's going on in the industry. And what someone said about this and Blah, Blah Blah? But that's totally different than my podcast if that makes sense. Yeah, absolutely absolutely. You when you were interviewing well, did you in your production notes to your producer or to your sound engineer? Did you have anything in mind that might compliment an audio drama or an audio fiction type discussion that you had with well, so did you make any creative or editorial changes because of the nature of the discussion that you had will? I did actually well I. Hopefully, this is This will help answer your question. When I'm interviewing a creator of a show that I. have become a fan of like an everything is alive or something like that. Ns show that would be hard for the audience to understand if they suddenly if they haven't ever listened to it and they're just suddenly you know parachuting into an episode about we talking about it. I WanNa give them a sense of what that show is about. and so I WANNA play. I didn't do as good of a job of this in the first season, although I did play a clip of everything is alive and then I actually got feedback from a reader. Shout out to John Caustic I hope I'm saying your name right? He wrote back after season one and said you know I really wish that you had done that for all of the episodes. Because if I haven't listened to something I'm just not as interested in. I'm just a little less likely to listen to something. If I know I'm not going to understand it, because I haven't heard it so I made because of him, I made the choice to include a clip of almost every show this season I did not do it with one other episode, and that was my first one with Cara Swisher. And, in that case I felt like. That the the the interview was not so much about how she makes her show because her shows interview show that the she's I was interested in interviewing style, but I didn't necessarily think that putting a clip up front of her. Talking to someone who knows who that would be who knows what clip I would have chosen I just didn't think it was going to enhance the experience of lessening. You're going to get what you would get out of an episode with Cara Swisher just by listening to her to the two of US talk. I feel and so. In this situation with will, it was similar in that my I was not doing an episode about the plot behind valence. I wasn't doing a show about the plot behind scoring magic I was doing a show about what it is like I, wanted to answer the question. What is it like for a you know someone who writes criticism to go and make the kind of show that they write criticism for like that was the nut that was the heart. The heart beat really what I wanted my listener to to learn from and here and so again. I didn't think that playing the clip was going to change the meat of the discussion that I wanted to have with her. You know I could have done it. I thought about it. And I. I also couldn't think of like. What am I gonNA play. It's going to I. Want there to be a reason for everything that's in Russia I like that that's a really good mentality. O Thanks! Hopefully that answers the question, yeah! You mentioned ahead of our interview. You recorded this episode with will twice. Can you tell me what happened there? So. Yes, and I believe it or not. We recorded this interview twice and I am sure that there are podcasters out there who have faced this kind of problem, but we decided to use software for our interview. It was just better for me. Schedule Wise, and there ended up being technical problem, and I won't bore people with technical problem wise, but it did not emerge until about eleven minutes, or so into the interview, and when I listened back to it i. just felt like after the eleven minute market, which just too distracting. This noise was too distracting. Hopefully won't be the case with your chickens and cows. I hope it's a welcome respite. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the Chirping Birds. but when I listen to this particular noise was not a relaxing noise. It was definitely not chirping birds and so I just decided it wasn't really usable, but I still really wanted to have her on the show so i. put my between my legs and asked well. If there was any way, you would consider talking to me a second time, just not like. Like your you know Hashtag proud podcasts or moment but I felt like it had to be done or else I just couldn't that and she was lovely, and said yes, and we decided I decided that I would schedule it for way far out that I would wait like you know at least three months to rerecord so that hopefully she wouldn't remember what she. She had talked about, and we have new information, because at that point, actually a number of the people that I wanted to interview had had to kick the can down the road for various reasons, and I wasn't going to record with them until much later, and so it was fine, and we recorded it again, and so what you heard last week was the meat of. Of that conversation now what I am also going to do is this week I went back and listen to that eleven minutes, and that eleven minutes is really about what led up to her. Entering the world of podcasting, and I just really loved what she said, and so I think I'm going to release that as a bonus episode which will come out. Yes yes, you heard Air I. it'll come out in. August or September and I just think that I really liked the way that you know that she talked about it. And I'm excited to to reveal that. Chew listeners after the finale will. This was really fun aerial I have really appreciated getting to know you and consider you a good friend in this industry, and it was really fun for me to have you on this show and I want to thank you for saying yes, even though you're driving across country and living in a farm and. All the craziness that comes with millennial adventures and I also. I also want to thank. Will Williams for speaking to me not once, but twice for last week's episode next week on inside podcasting I am so so excited to bring you an interview with two of the producers behind the New York Times podcast sixteen, nineteen, a Diese Egan and Anne Brown. This award, winning show, which was released four hundred years after the first ship carrying slave Africans arrived on. What would become US shores transformed my understanding of what it means to be black in America today I sound. Sound like I'm reading a script and I am reading a scripted I. Just want to say that it really really did transform my thinking. I feel like it. It changed me in in such a fundamental way, and I'm so appreciative of podcast that can that can do that. so I highly recommend that if to regardless of you listening to next week's episode, please go and listen to this podcast. It's truly groundbreaking in my view. If you enjoyed this episode, please do all the things that podcasters. New Review It on Apple. PODCASTS are or a friend about it inside podcasting is produced and hosted by me. skype pulse bury. My heroic co-producer is evoked Tara from simpler media productions. Many thanks to my mom, who helped with research, and also to Jason Cal Canas, Goop Green Lights, this project, and also thanks to Paul Condo. Who helped at last week's episode? I'm very grateful for your help. I was extremely busy and that came in. Very Handy I also want to thank my family who is always unwaveringly supportive and last, but not least all of you. Thank you so much for tuning in. It makes such a difference and please join me with a decent anti next week. See you then. Wow Sky. That's a really good at altro.