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This is an ABC podcast. I am the master of my destiny. The creator of my future guided by ancestors believed in by people Howard by connection to land family culture. Preserving my rights to live my sovereignty without penalty on my identity. I am the master of my wealth. My name is Dr Vanessa Lee on social epistemology at the university of Sydney, my people are from you got the Miriam incapable and the Torres Strait I write that poem to take back my power and it's about atonomy without a Tommy dine have resilience, and that is so important with suicide prevention. Vanessa Lee, and will he lighter how she helped her son with these mental distress by reengaging him with her grandmother's culture. It's all in the mind on our in. I'm Lynn Malcolm today some insights into how to help people with suicidal thoughts, survive and thrive. The challenge we have is the narrative that we have been having around suicide in the United States. We saw really significant national dialogue that occurred after Robin Williams death and with the deaths of Kate Spade and Anthony bourdain. That only intensified, but the material conversations we have around suicide are around the deaths. We aren't putting forth stories of hope and recovery, and I believe that's. Where the real opportunity for growth and development and real change lies. David Covington is the CEO and president of recovering vacations international in the United States. And he's one of the founding fathers of an initiative called zero suicide in healthcare around forty thousand people year now die by suicide in the US while we've had a tension to an increasing death right in the US as of racing -ly we've got largely the same situation that we had many years ago. If you go to the mid seventies, we were nearing the five hundred death on the Golden Gate Bridge. And at that time researchers, David Rosen, and then a few years later, Richard Sidon did a number of interviews with individuals who very few heads survived a fall from one of those bridges. The second study looked at people who had been negotiated off the bridge or wrestled off of the other side of the rail. And what we found is contrary to our notions nineteen out of twenty individuals were either still alive or had died of natural causes over the years. So those stories of individuals who found some way to cope to hang on to find a way through and in some cases to thrive actually, in some cases to take that experience and use it to become something they wouldn't have been. Otherwise, those stories haven't been told and and we think telling them transforms not only the dialogue that we're having but gives hope to people out there who are in pain. David Covington is a pioneer of the zero suicide healthcare model. It's the belief that robust improvement in healthcare. Will reduce the number of dates. The goal is to prevent by suicide within the system there. Now, hundreds of zero suicide programs in the United States, England, the Netherlands, Canada, and New Zealand. David Covington describes one of these programs which has been going for about a decade. We're seeing a model in Phoenix Arizona where last year twenty three thousand individuals were in such crisis, that law enforcement was engaged. Someone called the nine one one medical system, a family member, a call, the police of the person themselves was so afraid that they reached out in the rest of the country. Every single one of those twenty three thousand would have gone to a hospital emergency department where they would have waited to get into a room. They would have then waited for some kind of psychiatric consultants assessment then would have waited for a referral to get into some kind of program somewhere. And then they would have waited for transportation to that program. All of that waiting would have landed up in a weight of eighteen hours to three days depending on where they lived, and at the end of that they might or might not gay. Get into some service that was mainly fall. But in Phoenix, every single one of those twenty three thousand was taken directly to an urgent crisis care center, not in the confines of a hospital situated across five, geographical locations in the county. Law enforcement doesn't call or go to web portal. They don't need to make a referral. They just drive to the closest available site. They go to the law enforcement door. There's a separate entrance into a small room that connects directly to each of these five units. They go into that room and within three to five minutes, they are back on the straight. So it dramatically reduces the law enforcement time engagement, and it incentivizes law enforcement to actually take people to care in the US. It's not uncommon for them to book someone on nuisance, crime into jail, which is far faster. So we're making as fast as possible. Once the Cross's Casey into the person is welcomed into comfortable warmly lit room, which is more like living room. Room than a hospital ward and their space. People are frustrated and agitated. You've got to give them some space so that we don't exacerbate conflict. We're trying to calm and provide support, and then in that environment referred to as a guest through that program, and we have different levels of service, we tend to treat psychiatric crisis like it's a light switch that it's either up and they need the highest level of service. We have some kind of cute psychiatric inpatient or it's down, and we're going to provide them some kind of after care or community mental health outpatient. Whereas in fact, it's more like a ladder if you will of different levels, and we look at it individuals, diagnostic situation of their risk to themselves or others functioning, their engagement history, their living environment, and whether they have any co morbid medical or substance use issues, and it produces a level on that six ladder system from secure residential being at the top of that ladder to non secure residential too. Intensive outpatient and we have services that map through to those exact levels. So people in crisis, we're trying to have in clinician appear, meet them in the community to even get out ahead of law enforcement and gauge in collaboration with that person. We can resolve almost three quarters of the cases that way then of those that we can't resolve, we're trying to get them into one of these care facilities where many are saying briefly or they go into our, we call it the retreat, but it's a twenty three hour program where there are recliners open environment. They're going to get not only peer support, but medical engagement and clinical support, and we don't focus on what is wrong. We focus on what is strong. And what that means is we're looking at what does the person want to accomplish in their life and how do we address that success? What are the strengths that we can Levy and what are the obstacles in the way? So you're not focusing on the mental health presentation up until the point that they say. Part of it is an. Pedal to what they're experiencing. And then we have a level five on that ladder is a sub acute. It has the services that she would say in a psychiatric inpatient program. But again, in that living room environment with peer supports embedded and they're more likely to stay two to four days. So we find a good sixty sixty five percent of those in crisis who would have historically gone into even higher levels of care if they were available. There needs can be met at one of those that twenty three hour observation or that that short term stay unit, David Covington, and he's COMEX have found that this zero suicide Cross's model has saved hundreds of millions of dollars for hospitals and the police force in Phoenix, and it's also cut years of unnecessary whiting time for those who are res-q of suicide. So what is it that causes people to be suicidal? What does that? Where does that pain come from? Thomas joiners model would assert that there's two things going. On the person feels disengaged and they feel like they're a burden. So the approach that we've taken where the hospital believes Ereli bay there, we've just leaned in to exacerbating the two elements that make the most impact on that. I mean, again, just think about if one of us was failing in that kind of pain, and we've got a choice between staying with police officers waiting in a hospital a day, and then going into the highest level of care possible verses, can we get a lower level that might be more suited to our needs safe that can be successful for us. So we believe this kind of approach replicated outs going to make a bigger difference. David Covington, CEO, and president of recovery innovations international in the US. It's all in the mind on our in. I'm Lynn Malcolm around three thousand astride liens die by suicide each year, that right has been stable over the last decade. But there are groups of people who are more likely to take their own lives. Aboriginal interest rate ostlund is have twice the right of suicide compared to non indigenous people. And suicide is the biggest killer of young Australians responsible for more deaths than car accidents. Helen christianson is professor of mental health at the university of New South wiles and director of the black dog institute. She explains some of they lightest approaches to suicide prevention. A new idea in suicide prevention is that you need to have multiple flyers and that they have all have to interact Tanis -ly. So we have to have Hilst changes. We have to reform our hill system so that look, people say after an emergency visit, but also we need a community response and we also need a longer term response. So for example, we need prevention programs in young people because we want to reach people before they reached that point where it's much more difficult to intervene around sixty percent of suicides around heralded. So we really need to be acting way way before people really get to that point. There seems to be a bit of a get there between people who. Who may have sought help very early in the pace and those who get to the extreme end of feeling suicidal. Look, I think there's a lot of mixed feelings that people experience when they're at risk of suicide. So they don't actually want to tell anyone even though when they do it is relief. We know many people do visited pay prior to a suicide attempt, but don't actually talk to their GP. They don't want to discuss how feeling for various reasons. Says he had it with shame and a certain level. I think when you talk to people who've been in that situation sort of self hate and unworthiness. So it is really difficult. But I think a lot of things can make a difference to them. So for example, talking about Tila side is not harmful to do raising with people. We've introduced a program called step care in general practice, which is using tablets and other mobile devices for people to screen themselves before they go into. A GP and that information is in putting the console of the j. before a person goes in there. So even if we've got the flu and depression than that can be picked up. So it's a way of beginning conversation and the person themselves get zero result. So they can say, look, you know, maybe things aren't going very well for you at the moment. Would you like to make another appointment? Can I refer you to somebody? So it's actually by creating these systems, if like he ribald to actually unidentified people who in some ways when a dentist themselves, but may be amenable to having conversation about them into a health in that sort of situation with a trusted doctor. Some of the black dog institutes suicide prevention strategies. I using digital technology. We have been working on to sits of research programs. The first is trying to save what we might be to detect using smartphone technology. Because as we. Just discussed. We don't know who's risk. So is there something in the smartphone that's gonna give some indication that people might be at risk so we can look at things like blogs, can we tell if somebody's at risk of becoming depressed or becoming more so assigned by what they blogging, this voice analysis work? Can we till an emotional stead person from that? We're also looking at things like the extent to which we can map social networks using the bluetooth capability in the mobile phone. So all of this is a bit blue sky, but essentially that's the future, I think in being able to use something that people carry all the time around with them as potentially a marker for themselves defying or other people identifying that they may be at risk. The other half of this research program that we're talking about is where we developing number of interventions that might work in particular systems to help people who are suicide. And who may not be in contact with health services. So one that we've developing a bit further is something called living with deadly th- olds, which is an online program, which basically teaches anyone how to manage suicide thoughts. We also have an app corn eyeball Bley, which is in final testing in a second randomized controlled trial, which is looking at how to change people's to stress levels in indigenous communities. And so reduce depression, anxiety, and suicide ninety, and that for exciting because that was really developed by the community for the community. And our role really was to say, well, this is a way can put some psychological principles in psychotherapy does work for suicide. Ninety. Asian, can we convert that into an app and then the engagement side of it and how the metaphors and how you use to explain one of these these principles are is really something we don't know about what you know about. So you know, there were are to some people voices to the stories and things like that. So it was really nice app which could operate even outside the internet area, but then we can get the data being Ted back to us when people go into internet area. Another interesting that we developing with polity. Now, in three hospitals is called raft. And essentially what it does is provide a safety plan plus psychological therapy to people once they leave emergency. So we know that people don't get looked very well after they leave emergency or after hospitalization. So raft is something that they get put on their mobile phones. It takes messages them deliver some psychological modules. And basically it keeps them engaged with the team to a suicide attempt or self-harm episode. The black dog institute takes an evidence based approach, and they're suicide prevention. Tools are valuated in randomized controlled trials. Another strategy they've developed is known as means restriction. It looks at how we can put berry is into place to stop people taking their own lives. It's valuable to consider when most deaths by suicide occur in each community. We have developed a system at black dog where we put together all the different data from most of the national data sets in terms of where people die by suicide. And we've combined that with a strain, national universities, graphic software system, which allows us to plot where people die, and then we can also look at that in terms of an increasing factor that tapping new or is it decreasing over the last ten years where two separate where the people die, neither homes or away from home. And when we look at the away from home data that tells us where people might be attracted to go to die. Because all the people who died Dale because there's not very good security there. So if you look at that at different community places, you can say, wow, that looks like those jets are happening there. What's happening. There is a railway line. Is that a bridge is that I play for? Let's do something about that particular area. And so you've got a very strong focus within local community. The can't be dictated by a general principle about what to do. So I think that's a really k. thing when we have data, we can do an awful lot. We can be more fine targeted in what we're doing and with the geospatial mapping, giving that information to communities into those responsible within the community, they can make their own plans about what should be done. We can also give them daydream about the ages and the occupants of those people who died and often that shifts people's views about what they think they should be doing and been quite an effective strategy to provide. These, what we're calling suicide on its to the local communities in order for them to respond appropriately. If you're worried that a family member friend or colleague is having suicidal thoughts, Helen christianson suggests that it's best to start a conversation about it. I guess the first thing I would say is actually talk to these people and raise it, and there's no harm caused by raising a discussion around to the side and then encouraging them to seek help even taking them to see somebody can be really important thing to do if they're willing to go keeping in touch with them, making sure that community agencies know that they might be at risk. It depends on your relationship with the person doesn't it. So we've been workplaces. I think it's really important for manages to be trained in being able to identify who might be struggling and be able to have the conversation this many, many things that can be done at every level. And I think that's why the lifespan suicide prevention project that we've undertaken is multifaceted everything from schools. To how people are looked after an emergency because suicide is complex. Sarah isn't necessarily anyone. 'cause and we really have to create these safety nets around people and communities. Professor Helen christianson director of the black dog institute. The suicide rate amongst every general in Torres. Strait all into people is two to three times that of non indigenous trillions. Dr. Vanessa Lee is a social epidemiologist at the university of Sydney, this disturbing suicide, right? She says is because of childhood trauma passed down through generations and the adequate services available to deal with this trauma. Prior to the ninety, ninety s there were minimal recordings of suicides of average on tar strand the people, and suddenly it almost tripled in twenty years. And the trend was seeing across generations of people committing suicide. These young people that are caught in that Chalabi traumas in the processes of how are they dealing with the transgender rational trauma that's coming down to the next generation. And so how is that fact that the suicide rate is twice the non indigenous population? How does that fact influence the indigenous population. It's, you know, the sad reality is it's almost like. It's must become a normality to attend a funeral, which is really, really sad. So we have the circle of life and death life dead, and we have ceremony and processes in place so that the belief is that the spirit goes to a better place, but in the environment or in the sky or in this ranting lands or in the surrounding waters. And I come back as your ancestors to guide you where you're going forward. And so when somebody's committing suicide, it's sort of breaking that cycle. So you've been working on suicide prevention in your culture. Tell me about what you think the best strategies are. One of the major things is making sure that people have access to culture than die. They cultural identity. The biggest values that we're seeing is that racism is impacting so much on young people that they're beginning afraid to talk about their cultural identity. The other thing is when we have a grandparent who was discriminated against for being an average, John Tarr straight Onda and we have a young person today who might get a form of discrimination about being an aboriginal tar straight Olander. They're automatically reflecting on what happened to the grandparent. So it's almost like it's a double impact of racism that's coming down and it's transferring across to the next generation. And when we start having that double impact, it's denying people access to culture and they cultural identity. One of the mind strategies is having access to culture and cultural identity. All share with you. A personal story of mine is one of my sons. He when. Very traumatic situation a couple of years ago and without him realizing he would continuously side on the fire when I rang him tied of him Honey, what do you see around you? And he'd say, all right, in the middle of the conversation, he wouldn't change the time and he would say, I see a row see a bucket and I see a tree and then he'd talk about soccer. And then he talked about going to school and he talked about his grades and how he loved mats and and he'd keep talking. This was happening for a couple of months, and then one night he rang me at eleven o'clock at night on a Saturday night. You know, I'm lying in bed us half asleep, and I said to us it, Honey, what do you see a you? And he said, on a rope, a bucket and a tree, and I sat up and I was thinking, it's eleven o'clock at night. Where are you? And I sit him, where are you? And he said, I'm in my room and there'd good a lot of he said, no, it's duck lease it. I'm lying in bed and I said, okay, and that's when it hit me and. And he had no idea the how he was interpreting the wilda rant him. So in that time, like rang Wrangler family and everything going into a psychologist right away and he was experiencing so much racism and discrimination. He actually had a breakdown and when I got him back to Sydney, like they said to me, watch him and be away watch for suicidal tendencies. And as a parent, I can tell you that scares the hell out of you. I had to reteach my son a cultural ways of doing knowing and being told to me by my grandmother today, my son is a young man going to you need studying science, and if it wasn't for our culture, don't know if I could have bought him back. It's important for identity. Deny someone. The cultural identity is is basically handing the Mukadmeh and saying he going take your life, and that's not a k that is not a all and those strategies to me by my grandmother, those cultural strategies. You know, there was simple things, simple things about empowerment and resilience, and that's what I've told my son in I, he's got a few more years to go before. He's going to be stable and strong enough, but that's okay. My son still alive, and it's those strategies that have given him strength that has shown him resilience, given him in a tawny and showing him that it's okay to be inevitable entire straight on the young man. So how can you make those strategies more accessible to the wrist of the community? I actually got to communities in. I talked to a lot of women that run the women's groups in average touched on the community's almost in the middle of writing a book about it so that I can give it to to families are talk on the radio, a lot in the different communities and share my experience and to remind them those strategies, it was a simple thing that we come from the we give back to the. So I used to take my son Dan to the beach, whatever the season would lie on the beach with a blanket and put that backs to each other and not just getting to talk because we have a belief system. Like once you talk onto the wind, the wind then carries an it's up to the ancestors as to what is going to happen. Next. I reinstated him and remind him of who we were when we came from and what I share those with other average on tarsha on the women and communities on finding more strategies from them that they're doing to keep their children safe. That ongoing cultural wise of doing things. So is there enough resource given by the government for you to carry out these strategies that you believe work. The simple answer is no one of the things I'm putting together to look at the measurement of wellness, and what does that look like? How can we take that measurement and try and use it so that we can catch people before they feel like they going over the edge and provide the services. But the thing with the services we need everage tar straight on the people involved in the service delivery. We need non indigenous indigenous people working together. We need a full evaluation of policies because all these policies have been implemented implemented. We keep making measurements and tools, and we're not seeing the outcomes while we still at twice the right while we not closing the gap between indigenous and non indigenous people. We actually need to start seeing some real collaborations for some real outcomes. Dr Vanessa, Lee. I am the master of my destiny, the creator of my future. I am the master of my wealth. You know, I sit with my son regularly and I said to him, you know, Honey, I love you. I love you so much with all of my heart and he says, are known as I know, are really love you a since you hold my hand. And I said, because you always be my baby. Even when I'm ninety, you'll still be my baby. And I read him this poem and he looked at me and he said, I really like that. Can I haven't? And I said, Tim, yes, and that's the purpose of the poem because catches who you are. And I said, we belong toward the oldest living culture and we should never forget that. And I said, and we have so much knowledge that we could actually help non indigenous people in resilience in atonomy and connecting to country. We have some much knowledge that we could actually share with people. Dr Vanessa, Lee from the university of Sydney. If you've been disturbed by anything you've heard in this program, call knife flying on one, three, double one, one, four, and hit the all in the mind website for links to more support. Thanks to produce a dying dean and sound engineer. Hamish Chem. Larry, I'm Lynn Malcolm and for more on suicide prevention tune into next week's all in the mind where will hear about some grassroots approaches to staying alive and for deeply personal, take on suicide and mental health. Check out the new ABC podcast, no feeling is final a personal memoir from twenty eight year old artist, Roger, and broadcaster on Eastleigh at times heartbreaking and disparate, but also darkly funny and charming. No feeling is final a story of difference identity and why we should stay alive. Just search for no feeling is final wherever you get your podcasts or. Find it on the up.
All In The Mind
Aired Last week 4:30
AP Headline News Jan 09 2019 19:00 (EST)
I hate you with the rhinestone collar between us dogs. I just convinced my human of grade to a new home with the twelve hundred square foot bathroom. I think she called it a yard with Wells Fargo's three percent down payment on a fixed rate loan. My Uman realized new home was within reach learn more at wellsfargo dot com slash. Wells Fargo home mortgage down payments as low as three percent on a fixed rate loan require mortgage insurance. Ask a home mortgage consultant about loan requirements. Wells Fargo home mortgage is a division of Wells Fargo Bank NA equal housing lender. MLS three thousand nine hundred one. AP radio news. I'm Tim Maguire the meeting with congressional leaders from both parties and President Trump was short and fractious later in a tweet Trump called it a waste of time said a democratic leader Chuck Schumer says Trump stormed out again, we saw a temper tantrum because he couldn't get his way. And he just walked out of the meeting. Vice President Mike Pence says Trump didn't raise his voice or slam. Fish speaker Pelosi that if he opened things up quickly if he reopened the government quickly would she be willing to agree to funding for a wall or a barrier on the southern border? And when she said, no, the president said goodbye, the results no progress in negotiations to end the nineteen day old partial government, shutdown FEMA workers union heads Steve Reeves says people who've had homes damaged or destroyed by weather or wildfires won't see anyone from his agency. But this means is any. Who needs insurance claims property damages ball were out and the American people ask where is FEMA were furloughed? The government isn't doing routine food inspections because of the partial shutdown, but the food and Drug administration is calling back one hundred fifty workers next week to inspect inspect risk, risky foods such as cheese infant formula and produce an heir Zona woman in a vegetative state who was sexually assaulted at a long care long term care facility and had a baby is recovering at a hospital long with their child. Phoenix police are gathering DNA from all male employees at the facility. Police sergeant Tommy Thompson processes we ask people voluntarily and sometimes people have the right to refuse. But then we come back with a court order, and then they have to do that a lawyer for the women women's family says they are outraged at the neglect of their daughter. The woman has been in a vegetative state since a near drowning accident ten years ago. This is AP radio news. News. Deputy attorney general rod Rosenstein is expected to leave his position soon after William bars confirmed as Turney general Rosenstein overseas, Robert Muller's Russia investigation AP's, Eric Tucker reports it's not clear why he's leaving. We don't have any indication that he has being forced out or is being asked to leave by the White House. Although we are hearing that Bill bar did tell some friends that he did definitely want his own number two Tucker as there's also not Cl it's also not clear how the department will act after Rosenstein, there are still other people within the department who would be involved in the work of Mahler. And there's a likelihood that Muller might be in his final stages. So that there aren't that many more weeks and months left for a new attorney general to be supervising. The investigation bar has a confirmation hearing before the Senate Judiciary committee next week. I'm Tim Maguire AP radio news heat. You. The rhinestone dot collar between us dogs. I just convinced my human of great to a new home with the twelve hundred square foot bathroom. I think she called it a yard with Wells Fargo's three percent down payment on a fixed rate loan. My Uman realized new home was within reach learn more at wellsfargo dot com slash wealth. Wells Fargo home mortgage down payments as low as three percent on a fixed rate loan require mortgage insurance asked a home mortgage consultant about loan requirements. Wells Fargo home mortgage is a division of Wells Fargo Bank NA equal housing lender. NMLS I d three nine nine hundred one.
AP Radio News
Aired 3 months ago 72:58
The russillo show is brought to you this week by JC Penney guys. JC Penney. You can find all the great looks, whether you're in the office or on the go, raise your game with collection by Michael Strahan and relax and look on the weekend with MSMX by Michael Strahan exclusively at JC Penney JC Penney style and value for all. Well, we have a lot to break down here. We're not just talking about the Phoenix Suns firing, Ryan mcdonagh happened today. You can say what you want about Ryan mcdonagh run there. I understand the frustration and saying, hey, it didn't work out and that's all accurate. But did you week before the season starts reeks of Robert servers? Odd ownership, run while in Phoenix, maybe we'll do that a little bit later. I'd use some NFL stuff that I wanted to Rudy shout out to Cerruti single one more week cold, beat it all. Now did Friday, let's get it. I know you do. You do want to get married. I don't think I've only had like one friend that's like, I don't think I wanna do this rush to get married. It just it's it's, you just know any. No. Yeah. I, I've been to so many weddings and. And I got gotta tell you, I feel bad having this feeling, but like I just look around and I would have a date with me and I go, Nope. I don't feel this. Is your like, don't don't lie nothing. No, I lied to myself about it a little bit, but I knew deep down when it was a little alone time with the ri- guy. And you know, I was pretty close to getting married. Well, one was just a hail, Mary stupid idea. But there's a second time where I was probably pretty close to it like I was saving up for the ring. The ring was ready to go and. That one was four more serious, but you know, now removed from. I know why didn't happen because I was going to other people's weddings and I was just like, Nope, not really feeling this. I can't even imagine you like standing up there in front of a bunch of people like professing your love to someone like that is the least ryen russillo thing now that you're capable of feeling that, but I just couldn't ever imagine that happening. Yeah, and I'm not doing that because I don't. I don't have that going on because I'm trying to be cool or anything. I just, I don't know, man, it's really weird. It's weird. Now as I've gotten a little bit older like wait a minute, is this really what you're going to end up doing like you just going to do this? Like everybody's gonna think that. I don't know. You stay in shape moved out to LA. They're going to be rumors by there'd be anything wrong with that. Thirty did about it. No, I'm not. But to be single, a thirty five was kind of funny when everybody was married and having kids at forty five and a couple of years that will that will be different. But I'm not really. I don't know, man, I have like a different, like lonely doesn't. I don't. You know, lonely, negative. I just say solo now, it's like a solo radio show. Are you lonely? No, I'm just doing the show by myself trip degrees. What's up, do it. So, yeah, those those are getting. Solo trips are bad ideas was going to go ahead and say that it's just. Probably the problem is always be afraid to go with somebody to something, and then they're like, oh my gosh, we went to the amalfi coast together. He's serious be like Izzy. He's watching a ton, a ton of late Pac, twelve games. Yes, odd. He knows what weird amount about the Phoenix Suns front office situation. Yeah, he's he's not. All right. So this is weird. It's gonna have to start. I didn't expect to do any of this stuff, but I do want to talk a little McGregor. We're gonna have Johnny and AKU called UFC two to nine with Nur gum off. Let's be against McGregor. And I think the most important thing that gets lost and all this and it's getting lost for good reason because we had an absolute brawl a mayhem brawl. Okay after the fact. But the reason why it I just look Habib deserves all the credit in the world. He was incredible. He was dominant. I thought he was going to win even if I didn't want to admit it a little bit because I liked the Connor story. I liked it. Connor is somebody that is always willing to back up his talk as far as, hey, I'm a fighter and I want to do this. I'm not going to duck anybody. I actually think it's almost insane with the weird time line of things that he had to do with the dias stuff before that the jumping from weight classes, then to study boxing and fight almost what was it thirteen months ago because he fought right at the end of August against Mayweather, and then it's like, okay, I'm gonna come back and I'm gonna go. Head and headline this event Vegas. I'm going to go up against the guy was twenty six and you'll be for those that don't know because normally, look, we're doing football, got basketball here in a week. You know where the majority of this podcast is going to be, but I love the UFC. I love this stuff. I mean, going back to. College and ordering the first one when the guys used to have to fight multiple fights and was real tournament with like, what is this like? This is awesome order it, you know, annex probably gonna make fun of me for hitting the old type pads when I was a little bit younger and you gotta understand it was a sixteen year old russillo moved to a new town had a real hard time with a high school adjustment, skinny as hell, went to this local gym all the time because I didn't really have anything to do. I didn't fill out until I was like twenty six or twenty seven anyway, q., the steroid accusations. But I honestly like I would watch these older guys like, all I could do is try pull downs in leg presses because they were like it was an okay amount of weight, which is what everybody can do like sweet and putting on two forty five, and then the leg press the hell out of this. And you know, you just do that because you're insecure and you're a little kid and even so for me to to be that skinny. You know, it just bothered me. So then I saw these old guys fighting all the time, and I had mentioned this guy dean on in passing on the Bill Simmons podcast. He was this guy dean, he was probably in his forties, although at the time, like you never know because you're only sixteen. So if I think back now I'm like, oh my God, that's what are we talking twenty seven years ago. So would he be almost seventy now all my God? Like is he dead? So he was this really good-looking well-built Scandinavian guy, Denmark, maybe Copenhagen. I'm not sure. And he was just he. He wreaked like we make must jokes, but he just had this thing and every girl in the health club loved him. Okay. And it's Martha's Vineyard in a lot of trainers were smoke shows before even knew with that term was and there were all these guys. It would fight with each other all time. And I was like, man, I'd love to try to learn how to do that. Like I'm scrawny I'd get my you know what handed to me if anything ever happened to me. So I was like, hey, dean, will you let me? We let me try. You know. In and do some of this movie tie stuff with you guys. I don't even know what it was like, oh, it's movie tie, whatever. So I could barely hold the type heads up. It was brutal for me, but I, I loved it. It gave me a little confidence. You learn some kicks. And again, it didn't mean anything. I still would have gotten mopped by anyone who would have laughed if you like, drop back and head your hands and fingers extended in started like throwing front kicks at one hundred and forty pounds. No one cares, but it was something that I could do and the older guys at first apprehensive like this, this bean poles going to, you know, Spar with us or you kidding. And I would just go in and kind of get tossed around a bit. But I liked it. I liked it. It was something that made me feel better about myself, which I think is really important, especially when you're young. And then there was this other instructor who was like, hey, you know, you're doing all right with that stuff. You should try savant, which is a French kicks, kickboxing, stop. And I got really nervous because I love dean. I just thought dean was the coolest. So I was like dean and it was like having to break up with somebody, go dean, one of the other guys teaching savant. He he wanted to see if I come in. Class. I just want to check with you. See, it was okay if he's like Ryan, I don't care. Go ahead. I was like, you're not mad. He's like, no, I go, okay. This is the other thing, though. I'm worried that if I take spot because the kicks are different. If I, if I start doing that, it's going to mess up my my, my tie the knees and the elbows and he's like, it isn't dude. You're going to be like relaxed, bro. You're going to be fine. And I'll never forget this line that he said, and maybe this is why I'm still single. But he said he goes fighting is a lot like sex. And I was like. Not doing much either. Yeah. And he goes. Because if you master movie tie, that would be great. He goes, but you'll be better at movie tie by learning other styles as well because it's just like women, he goes, you could have one, but you're going to be better at it. If you have more than one, I was like, wow, man, dean's amazing. And then one time, dean and I were sparring, it was really more meat trying to hit them and never being able to. And he was like, look, you know, you can't ever hit me. He's like, you can throw any combination kinda punches you want. You'll never hit me in the face. I was like, really, come on. He's Ryan, no offense. You can't hit me. I was like, all right. Bruce Lee, I've probably been doing it for six months now had knowing me even then I'd probably start to have a little eagle about it. You don't think I can't just get your face once and he's like, go ahead try. And so he let me swing and his face as many times as I could. And it's really hot trainer walk by and was like hading. And he turned and said, Hello, and I- cracked his nose wide open. So that's my background. And all this stuff. And that's why I still watch this stuff and I am. I don't know if it's complicated, maybe it isn't. So I'm going to run through this whole thing. So who side you take right? Because Connor is someone now that is. He's the most popular guy in the UFC. He's the star. He's the attraction. He's the breadwinner. He's all of those things. But it is funny and I noticed this and I think this is not just a small sampling of the wrong loud people or the the anti. Connor people. Maybe I shouldn't even call the anti. Connor people wrong, but you just sort of sick of them. You're sick of him. Okay. So the lead up to this fight. We had a lot of nasty things being said to each other, and I think the real question is you go, okay, MMA boxing. But in this case, MMA our sensibilities in two thousand eighteen. It doesn't feel like this kind of dialogue is a good fit for our sometimes awareness slash sensitivity sensitivity can be a negative thing. It can be a positive thing. In this case, I think it's good when we go, hey, are we more sensitive and more aware that maybe we watched the language we use? Yeah, I think there's, there's a great. Part of that. And then I think there's also a part where it's a little overblown and you go, you know what? I think we're being a little too sensitive on this one because the intent is not there. The connotation is reach. We even had an issue, Iran, darling, saying, using the phrase chink in the armor and then became a new York. Daily News. I forget which New York paper picked up on it. And the headline was only Ron darling uses racial slur, and it was it was simply like, you know, look, that happened to max practice at our place. It was just like, okay, I understand what you're saying. But now we're over here kind of maybe having a conversation that doesn't even make any sense. And that's what's happened in the aftermath that McGregor who loses to be in Abib was terrific in this whole thing. Okay. Dominant and he loses. He has to tap out, I don't think could be going to let him. I don't think he's going to let go herb dean had to pull his arm down. He then pushed him. It looks like he went to go spit on them and then be jumps over the railing fights mcgregor's crew. And honestly, at this point. I'm still all I'm okay with all of these things. You want to know why? Because. I wanted to be entertained Saturday night and I was unbelievably entertained and we like drama. We liked conflict. We like fights, I think. And I really think that there's extra things like if the Red Sox had a brawl in game two against the Yankees, more people would watch game three. That's just a fact that's the way we are. There's a reason why, if there's a little extra, if there's something else sensational about the viewing opportunity that we have, we're going to tune into it. We're more likely to tune in or the ratings are going to go up the same reason why have LeBron the first time now with a member of the heat going back to Cleveland, you could be an NBA fan and watch that game no matter what, but there's going to be other people that are watching it because it's like, oh, wait a minute. There's this extra storyline. We have to find ways to have storylines to be invested because we have so many options all the time. So like all fights, especially one like this, that people were calling the biggest fight in the history of the UFC. You had McGregor going up against. Medoff who is not like a household name. People don't realize that he's this. This beast of a guy who's twenty six coming in who is just a prodigy. When it comes to fighting wrestling, bears their videos of this guy. Wrestling a bear at nine years old bears on a leash. Some people on Twitter had a problem with a barely, whatever. Man, if if I have a nine year old is a really good chance. I'm not going to buy him a grappling, bear to go at it in the backyard so McGregor as is his history. Here he goes after the opponent, he goes after the opponent with nasty stuff. Some of the stuff I cannot defend. I'm not going to die on a hill. Defending what mcgregor's intentions were with certain things that he said specifically against Mayweather. I think some of the other criticisms of McGregor and the things that he said tend to be a bit of a reach. But up into this time line of Saturday night, I didn't have a problem with any of the after the fight stuff up until. McGregor get sucker punched k. so I wasn't even anti Khabib in doing everything that he was doing and being that upset about, okay, I thought the guy now it started off with at least a video that we saw. We saw McGregor kind of exchange with a short guy that was in black, who's apparently a fighter. And then the guy in the red hoodie, which to me, I'm going to say right now. I'm not gonna apologize for it. I thought what he did is worse than anything in the entire time and we'll go over the time on here. Again, he jumps in from outside jumps over the ring and swings at MacGregor's head from behind and anybody like sucker punching is the worst man and you watch them. These Instagram feeds where all these fights happen work is doing it to left. Like I, I don't know if there's more sucker punches now or more footage of it or what, but that's such a punk move man. And even if you hate one of the two fighters, like I honestly feel and I'm not to go all Maximus here on you. But if you're one of those gladiators, willing to. Get in the ring and put it all on the line and not death necessarily. But you understand what I'm saying, like go out there and your pride in knowing how how awful it's going to feel they have to tap out or get knocked out and that you're willing to put yourself out there. The amount of respect I have for that guy is so immense and I've, I'm, I'm healthy healthy. In that my jealousy I think is like a real jealousy of that must be the most amazing feeling ever. And you can't go in there and fight one of those guys after he just did it. I don't care what's happened. You can't go in there and sucker punch that guy. Now in our to later, we saw other footage of McGregor taking a swing at another guy. They were both looked like they were going over the railing and that wasn't the case. So then that became wait a minute. Connor started this whole thing. You know what I don't want to do with this whole deal even though I could. I don't want to turn this into two kids in the backseat arguing about who did it. I in a road trip of the parents losing their minds in the front because that's what we're doing. Because when this all happens and it was fine until could be jumped over again. I'm not even mad that he did it. Okay. Because I know what I'm getting. I'm not asking these guys for stock tips. I'm not getting this summer house with any of these UFC guys. I expect them to try to beat each other up and I'm okay with that transaction that is the contract. They hope I buy it. I hope they beat on each other and it's great, and I got even a little bit extra and I'm not going to apologize for enjoying the hell out of it. If you didn't like it, if you think it's horrifying if you think it's terrible, that's cool to your. Allow. Loud to. I'm not asking you to see everything the way I see it, but don't tell me that I'm supposed to feel guilty about enjoying Saturday night. But if you go back to the whole kind of anti Connor thing that threw me off a little bit as wait a minute. He started this whole thing with Dali and the bus. Here's what stupid about social media. Is that any thought that any of us have does not mean that we're incomplete? It just means like that's the thing that we have the. We're not writing thesis here. It's a freaking tweet. So yes, almost anyone that's going, you know, look, bad look, can't believe the guy in red sucker punch McGregor. This is ridiculous. It looked like at one point, three different guys try to exchange McGregor in the ring, a ring that he just fought in by the way you're sitting there and sweatshirts. That's somehow absolves McGregor stupidity of throwing dollars like no real. No rational person is sitting there being like, oh, actually, I thought that was totally cool when he threw the Dalai through the bus and the glass. Okay. Now we can even go back further and say, well, wait a minute. How did that whole thing happened? Well, could be went at one of team mcgregor's guys who's actually this Russian dude who's part of some hook up with their crew. So I don't know how that all happened, but I watched a video of it. It was all in Russian, and I was researching the hell out of this stuff for the last two days just to try to figure out like, how do I feel about all these moving parts and I know there's probably even more information out there that I'd even hit on. So I watched the video and be puts his hand up around this guy who's team McGregor, and he's yelling Adam in Russian. I don't know what the hell he's saying it looks pretty intimidating, but he doesn't really slap them even though that's the way it's headlined. And then that's actually supposedly the reason why McGregor went after the bus, which again was stupid and he was charged. He went to court. He was arrested. He has paid a fine. He's actually still getting sued and like, that wasn't a great transaction from. McGregor. He got in trouble for that. No one saying that part of it's cool even if I understand how it was motivated, and here's the thing is could be probably went after that guy because that guy was talking smack about something else. So I can't go all the way back to the store. I can't go back to the big bang theory here and figuring out like who started who. So we have to just look at all the things and go. All right. How do we overall feel? And again, the guy was yelling at them in Russian. I don't know what he said. I like them thick. Two thousand eighteen said he spoke Russian in the comments section. He said it was some real gangster stuff. I don't know if that's true or not. You know what I mean? And so then it kind of comes back full circles like, well, you know McGregor and his language. The language is not anything any of us would get away with in our everyday encounters with people, but in promoting a fight and saying, nasty things about your opponent. It's just the way it goes. Whether it's Tyson saying, he's going to eat Lennox. Lewis is children or Muhammad Ali saying awful things about his black opponents, whether it's foremen or calling Frazier, Tom insulting every single person in mcgregor's probably going. Yeah, fine. I can play this down the middle, but I'm not and could be for all of your angst about the way I talked about you, your family, and I don't know, man, I really went back and look for a lot of this stuff. This is turning into that McGregor was dumping on the Muslim religion by calling Habib's manager a terrorist. I'm afraid to even go to deepen this. But if you don't know anything about his manager, give yourself thirty minutes and read about, okay. Now does that mean that you know McGregor should be absolved of all things? No, but I know again what to expect, I know that nasty things are going to be said, and because I like fighting and I like the lead up in mcgregor's thinking, okay, you can have three hundred thousand buys or a couple million buys by me. Hyping this thing up, hey, you cannot get paid and I won't say anything insulting in the pre show or a prefight deal, or I can insult you build up the audience and we'll cash the checks. Like, that's, that's the transaction that you kind of have to make. And I think for the super super triggered anti Connor guy, which isn't everybody like you can just hate him and like, I get it. That's fine. You're sick of them. Dana takes care of them, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. If you realize you and I'm not to go Chris Evans on you here, but you realize like you're sticking for the guy that Putin called directly to congratulate so like, how do you, how do you deal with that one? Oh, I don't like McGregor because this stuff I read an article about white Irish privilege today. I'm like, that's an odd sentence. If you know the history of Ireland whatsoever, but I don't. I don't know that you can apply. And this is where I wonder if I'm the NFL, but like I just I soon guys are going to say pretty crappy things to each other leading up in the fight. I'm not gonna ask any of these guys to get a summer house with me. I'm I'm not gonna ever have any encounters, and I want to watch him beat each other up on a Saturday night, and I'm not going to apologize for that last night. I was you call me talk about this in your. I didn't read anything about the the manager and I did after you after we had our conversation. I mean, it is pretty wild and I don't know where the line is there or what it is, and I'm not offended by as someone who is, you know, somewhat interested in the fight. I'm way more interested in in this fight. And you have see after what happened on Saturday night. So anyone arguing that this wasn't good for the sport like, yes, on a good look. But at the end of the day, like it's just interesting. It's way more interesting because of what happened on Saturday night. Like I don't know how that could even be argued. Yeah, it is more interesting and I read some, you know, think pieces on. On McGregor and peop- some people are just convinced now Irish guy. He said a couple of things about Mayweather and I'm done and you know what? That's okay. That's totally okay. I could see how you get from pointed point beyond that. You might be right. I might be wrong, but this is not a contract of like nobility here. I'm just. I, I wanna watch you guys beat each other up, and I thought the guy in red that sucker punch Connor was the worst of the whole crew knowing that Connor has done plenty of stuff that's also super crappy and. It's a very odd thing that happens is like, no, no, he did this. He did that. Oh, no. He talked about his father. Well as father also sits on McGregor, but now this is turning into makes it sound like all I'm doing is just well standing up from McGregor. I know all I'm trying to do is sift through all of the crap and get to a conclusion. That's pretty simple one. I'm going to get the next fight and I'm not gonna worry about it. And I think your point is we don't have to police everything in the same in the same way. Like when I when I'm ordering or interested in a fight, like I expect it to be hostile, and that doesn't mean that you can, you know, call people out and be, you know, nobody's asking you to be a racist about it, but like that's what I don't know being hostile. I'm okay with it being tens and not like always PC, and that's just the way it is. It's a fight like he's trying to sell a fight it. Honestly, I was a little bit over it. I was like, hey, my kind of bored of Connor now because I've seen this act before he was gone for a little while like I'm not interested in this fight. And now this whole thing has got me back into it. Yeah, this is in bad for the UFC. It just it just isn't. And all right. Well, we have a long time to go with. Nick, so let's get to him. And then I'm going to do a little bit of football and a big question for thirty. At the end of this, listen up people. We have a big favorite ask and we promise it won't take up too much of your time. So just hook us up hocus up. This helps Cerruti even it helps me, but it definitely helps Rudy. I don't get paid for any of it. Don't worry about neither, but you know our show supported by some fantastic sponsors, right? So we'd love to hear your feedback head to podcast listeners dot com. Phila- short anonymous survey. That's it. We swear again, that's podcast listeners dot com. Thanks so I opened up the pod just kind of giving my thoughts you. Jon Anik, the voice of the two Twenty-nine. The aftermath of this whole thing. You're sitting there with Joe Rogan Dom, right? And you know, listening all night. There's, you know how much I love love this whole thing and and think you are. So now that you've had just kind of like a day or two to think about this and we don't even want to start with the fight, but just everything. Like give me your perspective sitting there ringside. Well, it has changed as we sit here Monday as opposed to Saturday night when I bought walked back to my hotel room, not feeling super good about things. But I guess my thesis statement is that this thing could have been a whole lot worse, and I worked for the UFC for seven years and steadily or UFC security team has been beefed up. Certainly the Dalai throwing incident in April resulted in an increased security presence. You know t mobile arena security, obviously. And the Las Vegas police department prevented this from being just a massive ordeal. I mean, we've seen in boxing and other sports, personal injury and other things and bottles being thrown. And I know there was one usher that maybe should have corral could be. But other than that, I thought the police and the security presence really did a good job at making sure that this thing didn't spiral any worse out of control than it already was. So as somebody that's been around Connor, I remember you as far as I've known you. Time. Now I remember that and you're like, you gotta see this guy Connor fight, and it was wasn't just as ability. It was. It was the personality, the showmanship of it all. And we've both for those that don't know John and I work back in Boston a long time ago, we used to go to Vegas for fights. He started in boxing, and that transition over the UFC and is just different. I mean, it's just a different world out there. So for those in the aftermath that kind of say, Conor deserves this deserved all this stuff. How do you feel about that being as close as you've been to combat sports? Well, it's a good question. I think people immediately want to draw a parallel to the Dalai throwing incident or Conor McGregor running into the Bella tour cage, and you know, getting into a confrontation, they want to relate that to what happened on Saturday night. And I think you do have to look at these isolated incidents because one thing that I said on the broadcast that holds true, Connor has always been humbled and respectful in defeat. And we've now seen him experience at a couple of times in the UFC he buries the hatchet right away. He. Gets on good terms with these past opponents, and there is a true mixed martial artists in there. Now he is a prize fighter at his core, and he has become a master and figuring out a way to appeal to the masses or get hatred from the masses. Everybody has an opinion obviously about kind of Britain McGregor not unlike Floyd Mayweather and at the end of the day, I think maybe he'll reflect on this and soften some of the trash talk, maybe when it comes to religion or people's families. But at the end of the day, this is a master articulate or and when he gets on a press conference stage, I don't think you're gonna be able to rein them in. What does the world? What does the UFC world thing? It could be team because I'll admit I'm reluctant to go as deep as I could on the information that I've read. And as I point out, I think a lot of people when they heard McGregor say, okay, you know, this is his family. You know his, his manager has a sky even in the country and all this stuff, and people immediately took it. And I was like, I wonder how many people complaining about McGregor of actually read anything about this again. Like I'm almost a little cautious even talking about because it's really serious stuff. So give me the UFC the the MA perspective, the world of of this crew. Well, he has an individual and the people that I have met around him have established so much goodwill with knee and the promotion that a lot of us wanna pardon him for this lapse in judgment. If I can call it that I think he if you had to do it over, he might do it again because culturally speaking socially speaking, these are people who are as bonded as any group I've ever come across. They stand up for what they believe in. And if they saw. Connor's actions with the Dolly and his burble stuff warranted, some sort of retaliation. And there was unfinished business, whether it happened at the end of this fight Ryan, or it happened at the hotel after the factor in the streets. He had some unfinished business clearly, but this dude is dripping with class, man. I mean, he is one of the last guys and maybe that was ignorant of me. But one of the last guys that I would expect to not have the intellect to control himself in that situation. But I really think that he wants he beat Conor. He felt liberated to say, all right, I didn't wanna do anything to jeopardize the flight. Now, if anyone else has anything to say whether it's doing dance, your Brazilian Jiu jitsu coach, or you Connor, or the ten thousand Irish men and women here, you wanna throw your beer bottles at me. I am ready for this is what he said. And I just think for a copy of a switch flipped, and I'm not sure that he would take it back, but overall, man, this is about as good as it gets. And I think you'll find that he moves past this and hopefully gets a good chunk of his two million dollar person. Eventually we. Learn from it and move on a group? Yeah. The two million dollar purse doesn't happen without McGregor. It's being withheld as they investigated. But reading when I was reading today, the everybody's like, look, we're going to try to resolve this as soon as possible. You're saying no suspension. I actually like I'd said, I didn't have a problem with even doing this. Really. You know, selfishly, I was entertained by. I think the thing that the two things that bothered me the most were the red headed guy or the the, the red hoodie guy coming in in soccer punching Connor from behind and Habib afterwards, saying things like, you know, that's there's no place for this infighting and be like, hey, bro. You can keep going like humble town at twenty six now twenty-seven when people don't even realize how insane that doesn't happen in this sport. And it's happened with this guy and you can make a couple hundred grand incentive a couple million. Okay. So respect to you the fighter. I'm not even beating up on the guy, but like I sometimes I wonder like you can. You can. He can have this. Tight knit group. This can be a cultural thing, and I'm understanding of all those things, but you're also in this business of of getting eyeballs on you and you can't sit there and like blame everybody else. Like, I don't care that you jumped over the ring, but then you can't sit there in the presser in blame everybody else for it. Right. No, I agree. And I think some have suggested Dana white, bring the teams together or tell them separately. You know, if you guys have things you need to settle. Don't do it on my time and don't do it during my flight week. Okay. If it's that deep rooted and it's something that you can't get past the verbal bombs than than do it on your own time. But no, I think you hit on a lot of good points obviously. And there was some sensitivity there for sure. And some people took issue with me saying that. I thought this was premeditated, and I'm not saying that he went into the fight thinking that there was going to definitely be a fight after the fight, and he was going to jump the octagon and go at Dylan Danis. But I do believe that he had no intentions of eve of burying the hatchet or or shaking hands. I think he wanted to confront. Conor as you saw he stood over him. He had to be physically removed by the referee. Herb dean could be was still pissed after the fight. And you know he's all smiles now, but there are going to be ramifications. I'm not saying that won't be a suspension, but some people said your minimum. I don't see it. I think maybe they give him nine months and hopefully that allows them to keep his title. I don't think he wanted to. I don't think he wanted to let hole. Conor when Connor tapped out. I think I think her head rip is arms apart 'cause I, he was going to let him out well, and that's the thing to like. I feel like Conor McGregor at his core believe that everything he said was prefight hype, and I don't know how much of this video Ryan you've ingested, but you can see Connor at the end of the third round the round in which he won. He pulls you closer and he says, this is just business. So kind of really at his core, there's a good guy in there and some of your audience just is not want to believe that you know and I haven't had as much personal interaction with him over the last three years as he has mushroomed as I have with the beam meadow. But my dealings with Conor McGregor have been nothing but positive this. I mean, this is a mixed martial arts fan at his core, right? This guy who sits around watching UFC fighting twenty doesn't have to, and I think he was surprised maybe that could be took everything as personally as he did. Why do people. I mean, is this just the way it goes like my whole Steph curry thing from years ago where he was just as golden boy on touchable approval rating through the roof. And I just said, well, hey, look, there's gonna turn on him at some point because that's just what happens. It turns it's turned on McGregor. I like McGregor the fighter. I liked it. He decided to mess with the weight classes. I liked it. He decided screw it. I'll fight Floyd because it's an entertainment thing, and I actually was kind of impressed with the Floyd Floyd at that would I think you had a chance in the fact that it was even. I mean, people can say, oh, Floyd carried them and all these different things. I don't know, man, I thought like is bad as I thought that could be it wasn't. And then he comes right back in the first guys fighting Khabib. So I mean, this is this is a guy that there's from just the fighting standpoint. I respect that part of him, but it's very clear that people are pissed at Dana for like the golden goose here, which is a business decision by Dana. So I don't know that you can blame him for that. I don't know. Maybe maybe there's a part of the audience that after the fact they had a kind of choose sides between Floyd and Connor, which became very much racially divided for a bunch of different reasons it. I was surprised at how many people were like good and screw Connor after the fact. And I'm wondering if that's a an accurate sampling or how you see that considering you're in this thing every week? No. I mean, I hear that from some people coaches that I'm very close with, and I can't believe they are so one-sided that way. And now even stone like they're not yet and now they're even starting to denigrate Conor McGregor the flight, or I mean the amount of misinformation out there in terms of the shape Conor McGregor was in for those suggesting he wasn't in shape for this fight at least try to credit a source or give us something to choose on because this guy is renowned for his work ethic. He does the right work. He's just not a lifelong grappler like this internationally recognized samba master, who does this to Ombo Joe love it. No. Can you can I just jump in because I always get nervous with that. It's almost like, hey, was a cover to or what are we doing quarters there? Because I'm watching it going. And I said after the fact like I was glad that be beat them when I thought McGregor was ready like any other fighter that messes with the way classes goes into sides to be a boxing celebrity for a little while doesn't fought in forever and then goes back to another like anybody else. It would do that. I pick against him every single time, especially against his opponent. Okay. But because it's Connor and I still thought he's going to lose. But like, because it's Connor, you're going man. I really. I don't know. He's a tough guy doubt. He's a tough guy to doubt and I was in the building for the Mendez fight where I'm like, oh my gosh, you have CHAD'S getting like, he's going to get him here and then he didn't. And then when he fought back on the ground and then I'd said it didn't feel like it was this out of shape, not sharp guy. He did look like he was looking for his left and setting that up for that kill shot. But I mean, the fact that could be was on him for two straight rounds. Like, what do people expect a guy to look like in the. Fourth round after five million five minutes straight back about five minute rounds of having this grappling master. Absolutely sit on you the whole time like nobody's fresh in the history of people. Nobody's fresh after that. And I was like, hey, looked well conditioned or at least condition enough for Connor. And that's another thing with Connor. It's not like this guy's like five round guy all the time because that's just not the way he fights. So I felt like in even bigger salute to be even this one is that he I, I don't think it was some washed version of McGregor right now, and Connor has tried to sort of close that gap and become a better five round fighter, but you are absolutely right. And the thing too about Floyd Mayweather that I've always said is most impressive about him is that he was never flat on fight night even when he started slowly against guys like sugar, Shane Mosley Floyd Mayweather never had a bad night and even though Connor put himself in position to have a good night, this was probably his worst performance that would probably be his assessment. You know, he was not happy at all. They get caught by that big right hand from beaver imago Matt up. You don't wanna get knocked down by hubby. And this fight, right? He just wasn't at his officiant best and everything I saw from Connor during flight week, he was outstanding shape. He was strong. He was as our ticket as ever sharp attack focused. And then on fight night, I saw him walk in and it looked like the color wasn't there on his face. The confidence didn't seem to be there. Maybe I'm reading too much into that, but I think ultimately the reality and the gravity of the opponents set in and he just understood. You know, this is going to be a real challenge. And I think he also too I'm going along here, but he doesn't get credit for coming back and fighting the guy who's far and away the toughest matchup for him in this division. So anytime I say anything nice about Dana white or Conor McGregor on Machel, but that's honestly how I feel. What else haven't I asked you about that you want to tell us about that night? Gaba. Okay. Who's a UFC featherweight and teammate of hub even imago met ob- and he is a guy who came into the octagon and lost his UFC contract essentially by engaging Conor McGregor physically. Now, when we're calling this fight, I'm looking to my right. I see how even Mogomedov and all of a sudden I pan back left and I see this guy to Gaba UFC fighter crack Conor McGregor with a right hand. Now I did not see Conor McGregor throw the first punch at two who all of that being said, even though we didn't reference it on pay per view. I still believe Conor McGregor is far more in the right. He's the guy who just lost a mixed martial arts contest. He's in an octagon defending himself and Zubeir jumps the octave gone with intent to get into something with Conor McGregor. So there are a lot of different layers to this and you know, I don't know how much time we have, but that was the only time you want. All the time you want. For me was that yes, we missed that on the broadcast and poor, Dana white having to do this press conference without all the information while polices in the back watching video. I mean, it was total chaos, and I think all things considered, you know, we tried to paint as accurate a pictures we could because I thought. Earlier, once we got the video our to later of McGregor being up on the railing, taking a swipe it, somebody from Habib's camp. I was like, okay, but you know what? That's still not as bad as the guy in read. It isn't and then it just, you know, I already know what the people that hate Connor are gonna hate that we're doing this, but I just I think there are different levels to this whole thing. And then as mcgregor's exchanging punches with the security guy in between is this the guy you're talking about here like McGregor actually gets them pretty good. And the other guy doesn't you know, they, they hit each other and that's when the the red hoodie guy comes in, what happened? A red hoodie guy that I don't know, but I gotta think he was among those who were arrested and he might be the guy that ultimately ends up getting the most punishment here. I mean, he'll be been amalgamated is certainly going to be sanctioned. I don't think much is going to come Connors way. I mean, I don't know how you can stall one of the fighters staying in the Arctic on protecting himself. I mean, yes, he did throw the first punch technically, but all of it came after Habib. Exited the octagon what a scene man, I and dude imagine landed flush one of those left hand and knocked the guy out cold. Then all of a sudden that becomes a huge cornerstone of the narrative. So I don't know, scared of led off by saying, thank God. This thing didn't spiral completely out of control because we thought we were going down a path that was a lot darker and deeper than when we went down. All right. So I just yelled at twice. So I I have to say the time because I don't think you heard me, but I mean, did you think a right? Like you've already said you thought it was going to get worse? Like what are you in Rogan doing? Well, you know, I feel like we sort of went in somewhat expecting that something could go wrong. I mean, my twin brother came out to the flight, and I did say to him, like don't be afraid to expect the unexpected. I was more thinking there would be a fight that would break out into the crowd. You know, never did. I think things would play out this way, but I don't know when you're in the moment and you got a hot headset. I don't think you're thinking about your safety as much as maybe the safety of Bob Kraft and others sitting to my left, but I his 'cause I know. Yeah, yeah, that's right. I guess that's a story for another day, but I feel like for Dana, that his big concern, he's all of a sudden seeing his life and everything flash before him. You know, fans getting hurt and soon the UFC and but man, they restored order creek them. And I found like a company guy, but they got to work. Paul Pierce, I don't know what was going on there. They like wind, let him down to his seat. Did that distract you at any point in some of the earlier fights would have distracted me if I had known the truth was in the building. I'm learning this for the first time right now. Unfortunate truth. Yeah, it's nothing. It wasn't really bad, but it was weird like people are trying to move him or maybe to have his ticket for the lower section. You just figured like, hey, I'm six, eight. Well, now he's more like six, seven, you know and I, I dropped buckets. Do you see my first or second half against the nets. I was there haven't personnel the way for that. What when he had when you have the playoff game against the nets? No, the the regular season, the forty, whatever it was. Yeah, that was nuts. We'll do that time for us to just spend thirty seconds on your amateur mixed martial arts debut. I don't know how familiar your entire audience is with how close that came to coming to pass or not. So just want to say, you know, I would say the highest IQ I was maybe there was a fifteen percent chance that russillo was going to have an amateur mixed martial arts light than if you know Ryan, you know, he wanted to be, you know, ninety five percent healthy in the shape of his life, and I'm just trying to have him get in there and tap out if he has to do. I just feel like there's a good chance that you know you get a good draw and you connect on somebody and could you imagine cracking a Mike on the russillo show after going one annot an amateur mixed martial arts. The problem is greatest cracking the Mike at one and would be, I know myself all too well, how I'd feel for probably a month after going Owen one and right win by talked about it. We both. I think came to the conclusion that if I did it, somebody would definitely like nobody going to help me out with that. Matchup they're gonna like, let's let's go lesson. So no, I think there was a lot of true fair, but I saw far more upside than you did because I didn't think you'd get knocked out. You know, I, I didn't think he'd get. Knocked out and I know you're not the tapping type, but if you gotta tap out to save a limb, you're not afraid to do that. I would I I've always tried to tell this to my friends, but if I ever need an ego boost, I can call John and. And you know you've, you've been on this for a while. And I would say there was a stage. They're probably few years ago where I was like, okay, let's put together a plan. We we weren't gonna tell anybody. I wasn't going to talk about it unless I won and then people it was going to get out. I mean, no matter what happened once I did it, it was going to get out that I did it and you were more of the belief. Like if I just found some place in the area in Connecticut that you like my chances like you've always think you're selling yourself short a little bit and really overestimating the amateur mixed martial arts talent at one hundred and eighty. Five pounds in the plane of Connecticut is out there right now, right? That's the other problem though. Is that at two twenty? You wanted me to fight at one eighty five, right? So well, then when I started looking at the two five guys, God these tool, five guys still look really big and you're like, yeah, but dude, you'll get to one eighty five and you put pounds right back on, you'll be fine. And then I was also like it's taken me a long time to get jacked. So I don't know that I wanna way one eighty five again. That's that's college. So I, I know how hard you work dating to two thousand two. I get it. The door, don't close the door yet. You're right because of some of the back issues that I've had. I was like, you know, I can't really move the way I used to be able to move. And I think if anything forget the striking forget the ground. Like, can I avoid stuff from? I just going to stand in front of somebody who's been doing this a long time and has like parent issues. So. Dad you'll be in real trouble. Yeah, right. And he's like, you know. So there is a difference between you know, moving around? I would say strength wise, you'd be okay, but I don't. There's just, no, I just don't think there's any way like I would do some of the workout stuff that I was doing when I was training with those guys and all of a sudden like my my side to side head movement stuff, just sucked. Like I, you know, I wasn't avoiding anything so then, but you just figure that I was going to get to like one eighty five fighter clown, be able to toughen it out in connect. Once they, that was your whole thing is that I would hit somebody wants good enough to win and get out of there because the other guy would be clown city. You know what? I'm definitely not doing doing it now that I live in l. a. because that's I'm gonna wind, some ranch hand or some guy that's a mechanic, and I'm going to get murdered in. It's going to be all over social media. So I'm out so anybody listening, thanks, hey, come down and train will get you in a fight and six months. I'm not doing it in LA. Maybe Hartford. Not LA. Yeah, I would say in Los Angeles, you should even be. Elective in terms of which Jim you walk into, because I know if you guys out there that wouldn't mind, you know, putting that left jab in your in your grill. Before I let you go. I hope we covered all of this. I guess I was. No. I mean, it was such a dramatic thing and then you're sitting you're calling it by the way. Was there any conversation about not replaying it because I thought that was a miss. I thought you guys should replayed at once for us the brawl. Yeah. So it's interesting right when you're sitting there calling the singular biggest fight in UFC history, and then all of a sudden you start calling a brawl in my inner monologue is I guess I just call this bra until they tell me to stop talking. But I think because all in all likelihood, the video will be re purposed at some point in time if and when these guys fight again. Yeah, there probably wasn't too much downside night of, but you know, it's a decision producer makes in the moment, and we got a lot of guys that I have nothing but support for, but I think it's fair for you to qualify that as a mess. Joe, say anything after the fact about this night. Well, I think he's just really disappointed and you know, I think it hit him pretty hard because he's been with this company. You know, since I was a senior in high school in nineteen Ninety-seven and he just felt like this was a huge opportunity for mixed martial arts and he didn't want the headlines to be this. And we spent some time talking about how special of fighter evening Magomedov is today, right? But in a different world, we would have spent twenty minutes talking about him. And I think Joe talked about some of the venom that was gonna come Habib's way. I think be really doesn't care. And I think he is gonna find a way to handle that pretty well. But it is kind of like walking back into your new life. You know, when you go through something like this, it, it really has an impact on you. But if anyone can handle it, it's it's even a muggle at oven. We'll see, man. I mean, you know, Tony Ferguson, you know, to me stole the show and I'm hanging on happy to is on this. This pay per view and had that you know the chance to maximize. So he fight. And what I love the most about that fight is like there's guys the amount of respect I have for any one of these dudes as we joke about me hitting a bag and ever doing this. I think I was more about I wanted to do a walkout song and pick one out and put on a mean face and also training regularly. I mean, let's not leave out the, you know. So anyway. Jason Ferguson or guys like those guys love to fight. They're not just doing it. They legitimately love getting not just punching you. They don't care about getting hit. And I thought that fight was great unit up with blood on your shirt. I want to get to that, but Ferguson's win streak what he's done, what that may be means for him in the aftermath of the main event with this whole thing. So I guess explain to us how impressive this Ferguson run is and what that fight was like. Because that was probably as entertaining as any fight I've seen in a long time and really for somebody that deserves probably a lot more credit for what he's pulled off here. Absolutely. Yeah. Off the record, Tony Ferguson's, my favorite flight or on the roster. And when you look at the body of work fourteen and one in the USC I fighter at one hundred and fifty five pounds to get a double digit winning streak. This division has been the cream of the crop for years. It's where all winning streaks go to die. His hasn't died. He had a major knee injury, tripping on a television wire in April and six months later, having done. No physical therapy taking all the rehab and the training onto himself. He returns to the greatest proving ground in the sport against the former undisputed, lightweight champion, and Anthony Showtime, Pettus. And you know, picks up exactly where he left off. I mean, you know, free more wins on the ultimate fighter, all of them finishes. So eighteen times he's been in that octagon he's won seventeen. I guy I can ever think of who's a first ballot hall of Famer that has never even thought for the undisputed UFC, lightweight, title. And I think Dana, even though he has some pause and making Ferguson Nevado met again because as some of your listeners may know, they have signed that fight three times and it has gone by the boards actually four times, I think now that's the flight, right? Any true, avid mixed martial arts fan that watches every show we do their dream fight is you've been Tony, and that's something that was certainly preserved with Saturday night's results. And then finally the Black Beast not racist. That's his nickname. Let's talk about your man Louis with the walk off, punch with seconds to go in a fight. He was absolutely losing. Speaking of back injuries. He looked terrible. I've seen him fight before I know his his approach and I mean, I wasn't excuse making. I loved it from him. It was real honesty like, hey, dude, I couldn't really train and right away. You're like, oh my gosh, he's toast. And then when he is able to train hard and get through a camp with his back, it's not like he's doing three or four days with a super clean diet. He is who he is and when the cardio abandons him, he can lean on the heart. You know, there are a lot of heavyweights. We're not gonna name names, but they're looking for a chance to get out of there. Once they start eating lunch boxes or the going gets tough, you know, I don't know if Derek Lewis broke his orbital, but he did break a finger backstage warming up before the flight, but that dude is all hard and Houston. Texas loves that guy. I'm telling you there aren't that many guys on our roster that can legitimately sell out domestic. Markets and Derek Lewis can certainly do that in Houston, and it's just crazy to think, man that on paper. Now he's one nine of ten and if Brock listener doesn't come back, there's a decent chance. The Black Beast white stand. Nucor me a for the UFC heavyweight title first quarter twenty nineteen. The rumor that once all this stuff started breaking out that a lot of the fighters were scared because Luke rock hold was there and were like, look, everybody relaxed because if we piss off Luke, it's over for all of us very much. So you know and mandate. He looked good Saturday night. I gotta tell you he's a good looking guy. We've been over this before. I know nobody. He's another one. Nobody likes him. Now, you know, whenever I tweet out of Luke rock whole thing because I still like him, I think he was, you know, when it was right, he was is impressive. As an athlete is we saw. I mean, he's gotten rack to coming. We really thought he was going to go down as the greatest middleweight of all time, or at least start to chase down Anderson Silva, and it always. But maybe we can get you in the building November third UFC two thirty Madison Square Garden. These rematch and Chris wiping. Yeah, I know. And I, you know how much I enjoy Wiedeman. So I. I think wait a minute, November severed out now. Spam LSU. I'll be Baton Rouge priority. I get it now. I know you know what's funny about rock hold is that we had them on. You help set it up. I think we had him on again. The bisbee fight really bothered me because he could just tell like he didn't respect biz being at all, like he was. He was annoyed that bisbee was in the ring with him. And then, yeah, you know, is being seen what you want about that dude. Man, like he's another one of those guys at his core. He's just a tough guy like, okay, you know, I know I'm not supposed to be this guy on my resume. I'm older. I'm not as letting whatever, like I still wanna fight you and you know, as I. Professional ath-, right. I have ever seen slight live. You watch that guy fight, you realize, at least for me how not tough. I am. You know. Through hell. And you know, not unlike Tony Ferguson, these guys just have a trigger and the way they're able to focus and recover when they absorbed concussive damage really just sets them apart. You know, it's just it's just a crazy gear that I could, at least for me as a limited athlete could never relate to. So that happens. And then now you know, I don't know. It's weird. It's weird how I mean, that's just what fighting is though, is soon as you know. Yeah, I think just awful move up. I liked seeing move up to two hundred and five pounds. You know, he's he's huge, right? I mean, he does like stared death of a face making eighty five, and I think he could be champion at light heavyweight. So once his teammate, Daniel, a figures out what he's going to do is turn forty in March. I think eventually Luke's future is up division and he's got a good chance to become a to visit champ. I told you about the DM story with rock cold right. Yeah, but you know, my memory's not great. I'm forty years old Ryan. I know a young kid though in my in my heart. Yeah, I d- end math words was like, hey man, good luck. And that's when he won the belt and this is, you know it was. It was this was why been right? He got the belt from Wiedeman credit right now. Huge fan over here. I forgot. So then they, they were supposed to then they were supposed to rematch, right? This rematch that is happening next month and that's when visiting stepped in on short notice. Yeah, right. Because he got hurt, but then even rock holdings for in that and they still won. And so, like I said to him, hey, man, because I, I made the mistake with him thinking we really hit it off. And he's, you know, there's certain guys like there's just different tiers. There's tiers above me that those guys are like, oh, that dude. Yeah, he's all right with like, we're not hanging out and then I have tears blow me that are the same exact thing, but hey, similar. Yeah, dude, whatever. Like when not keeping in touch with you every day, like I appreciate what we're doing here and you know you got your back asking me some questions from now and then, but like I don't wanna. I don't wanna get. I don't want to get to twins on the road for a hotel if we're going to a game. So I had I had NBA wraps or something that night of the fight when I was in Connecticut. So I, I told everybody, I go, whatever we're doing tonight. Can none of you tell me what happened to the Rockall fight? I already bought it. I'm taping, it'd be home at like one thirty and just all night. Please don't be the person that screws us up and I'm reminding everybody like every commercial break every commercial break, and then I had him turn the monitors away from me as I was watching all the NBA staff and I wouldn't open up Twitter. I didn't open up anything, whatever. So I listen to me. And the way back don't turn on the radio. I get back to the place of Connecticut. I walk in. I closed my eyes with the sound off so that I can rewind. And I'm this point. I still don't know what happened and I watch. He wins. I'm pumped. It's to something in the morning. I can't fall asleep by cinema diem. I tell him essentially everything I just said to you and he was like, crickets. Got it down. Well, he's like, hey, dude. I came on your show for eight minutes. We're not buddies, but I appreciate your inspirational speech. Right? I mean, you really have eight. If he had a fan club, you would have a role, you know, I don't know what it would right, but you will. Let's get this win in November though. Let's get this win. Final thought for those that don't know. And I'm gonna just remind everybody of this again. Anna and I were co host after I was forced to have them on because Anthony peppy are lead host was doing with me because he used to write out show topics on a legal pad and then just rapid fire me, which was a jerk. Move by me in hindsight should because I should have worked together with him better on creating a show, but I didn't really know what he was doing. I didn't know what I was doing and then instead of working with him, I just was like, what are you doing? This is stupid, and then you just showed up and he didn't tell me and I was pissed in the beginning, and then you ended up becoming one of my best friends and your careers. Incredible. And I'm so happy for you. And I know I've said this to you before, but do you ever think about. This run that you've been on because we can have these moments from the outside, like, oh, my God, look at it like, he's you're calling UFC main event. Do allow yourself to appreciate it enough knowing that you essentially were the office manager and then in turn, and then my co host. Yeah. I mean, I, I was really thankful for this opportunity this past weekend far and away. The biggest sporting event that I have ever called and I wouldn't have left ESPN after six years. If I didn't hope to eventually ascend into the number one seat and you know, try to be the lead voice of the sport that I care deeply about, but I'll tell you, man with three kids. It's like reality hits hard. You know, I hit the Red Eye last night. I come home and it's just like in your face. And obviously I love them dearly, but there's just not a lot of time to, you know, think about what happened when you get back to to the reality of my life and what it is right now with, you know, three kids under seven God help me. But no, it's been great. And you know, I know there are a lot of people close to me in my life who thought I made some bad decisions. You know whether it was taking out a loan to go back to school for broadcasting or leaving ESPN for sport, you know, that didn't have necessarily great domestic TV future, but you know a lot of it's been right place right time learning from people like you and I just wanna say for your audience and I know you think I give you this ego stroke. But like I watched ryen russillo work for years, and I was like the, I can't do daily radio. 'cause I can't compete with this guy, not just the knowledge, the work ethic. I've never seen anything like it. You know you're the hardest worker in the room. You're Kobe Bryant. You've always been that guy and you know, it's kind of nice to see you get some credit for for that output and everything else. My man. So. Chop up the UFC. I mean, if I if I known it would take a brawl to get on this podcast, I would've tried to facilitate something sooner. No, we're going to have you on again me. I mean, you know how much I love this stuff I just do in texting away. And what do you think before? But yeah, I no one believes in the best version of me more than John and to the point on, you think I'd do. You would probably put money on me in this amateur thing, right? Likely we get knocked out or just wrapped up in a pretzel and have to tap out within thirty seconds with somebody who knew what he was doing. And you told me to DM one of the ring, girls who doesn't even speaking, that's the kind of Anna cats such confidence, like completely absurd, irrational confidence in me, but everybody should have somebody like that in their life, and I'm happy that it's you. Well, hey, I bet on you in two thousand three and I'm still cashing in twenty eighteen so say what you want, but I'm laughing at the Bank. You were like DM or I'm like, doesn't she not speak English? And you were like show you were like, you're going to blue check and you get enough followers, she'll show back up. I did not buy that. I did not, but but John told me to you're the best buddy and where can we follow you on Twitter and then also your soundcloud. I'm kidding, but also pump pump. Your podcast there with fluorine, right. Podcasts, I appreciate it. You know, just did a recap this morning, so that should be out in all the places, podcasts or gesture. You can find me on Twitter if you feel like it at John underscore, Anik, be kind folks. It's live television. Okay. Thank you. Love ESE about four get to the rest of the football stuff. And look, we went real UFC heavy. I'm going to do an NBA one. Probably the all NBA may even do a little bit NBA or the the start of this, but we're going to get rolling here because we did it heavy UFC and I know some of you guys are gonna be like, come on dude, back debate, UFC things. Hey, sorry for being versatile? You know, that's on me. I apologize. Speaking of versatile. How about you just up your game and all sorts of different categories because it's not just one some of these subscription things like, hey, man with no, no. These spoke completely different deal because when you're constantly on the go, grinding away at work or out with friends, there's not much time to think about upgrading your style or apartment. Tell me about it. That's why I love getting hooked up with a box of awesome from be spo- post every month. These guys out there, scouting for quality and unique products to send to me and Cerruti, and now you can experience it to at box of awesome dot com. So you have what the travel gear and you're gonna end up when. Where's the honeymoon? By the way, we're going to Hawaii and actually have my back from peace book. I've got some hair products because obviously, you gotta look fresh for the Instagram pictures honeymoon. So took me up. All right. We'll get started. Go to box of awesome dot com. 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Are you s s I l for twenty percent off your first box, be spo- post theme boxes for guys that give a damn run mcdonagh out his GM of the Phoenix Suns. I have a minute or two on this, but I'm gonna tell everyone all of us NBA fans out there. The GM job is changing and the owners are less apologetic or less cryptic about hiding the fact that they wanna call all the shots on all this stuff. I'm not going to sit here and say that Ryan did an awesome job. Maybe they have the pieces in place now though. I mean, if if Jackson improves and carries over from last year and eight and ends up being terrific to go with Booker, they could have some things work out, but a lot of the draft picks haven't worked out. The traits haven't gone. Great. So I'm not gonna sit here until you run. Mcdonagh was incredible. And this is an awful awful decision. It makes really little sense unless there's more to the story nine days before the season's about to start, but the reports were sorrowful. It's more of a say, all these guys are going to want more of a say, whether it's a GM in name only in the GM's. I think moving forward are going to be people that have less juice across the board. I don't know that there's going to be a lot of guys that come right in there. Vice president of an organization on less. It's somebody with so many options, like the guy that gets that vice president gig day one and has final say, and really the owner still always have final say, but it has has enough sway. It's going to be of a former player or it has to be ownership that's desperate to hire somebody from their history because that's why the Nash thing I tweeted out, I had heard that server at Nash to run the whole thing. I don't even know if Nash would take it and I have nothing. I mean, this is we're talking, you know, the last couple of years is gossipy stuff like, hey, you know who, because I'd always heard Ryan was in trouble for a while, and I just think with families, I think we're seeing it Milwaukee. I think Atlanta even Golden State even though with Myers there, and I've heard that that lakes sewn is terrific and everybody really likes him and Golden State. So I don't hear anything negative about that. But whether it's new acquisitions and multibillion dollar price tags on these teams, which really changes the game that ownership may say, hey, I feel even more empowered to wanna go ahead and do this. But I think there's. Some organizations that are hiring GM's that have absolutely no juice whatsoever, and they'll have pays pay stubs that reflect that. I guess I could say, you know paycheck or whatever salary that reflects it. But I think we're seeing a shift here in the shift is already happened and whether it's going to be family influence in the front office or figurehead GM's. Expect to see some more of this stuff. Is that a good job? The sun's job? Yeah. Like like, do you like they're pieces like where they're going like? I, I don't. I don't know. And all the points over part scared like the things. The first thing he just go like, what are we doing here? Because he, I mean, he had that run where I think they sold like five first round picks, and it was it was so, and then they spend like whatever they were saving on selling the picks. They were immediately spending because you still have to spend to the cat floor anyway. So it was a really poor approach to running that team and you know, look Ryan's miss down on some picks. You know, sometimes like my old rob Hennigan thing is that sometimes the pick that was available was the pick that was available. So it wasn't so much, scouting it wrong. It's just like the Orlando Magic, you know this, they seem to always land if the slot that was the wrong spot. Lynn. Yes, not Simmons. Write them is like number two and the w what are they doing? Basically rankings for less decade, but I think they're just more unlucky than anything value by great kings territory. No, I think the magic actually are. I'm seriously. I don't think there. I was surprised to see Simmons do that because I just don't look at Orlando. Is this dysfunctional group stupid guys from office? I it because it isn't. I, I'm I'm telling you right now. They're not dummies. If you look at every year where they drafted and you can always play this game, you're like, oh, you could've taken John Murray, we'll everybody could have. You know, I don't always think that's like, oh, look, what he. I hate when guys tweet out, like look what he passed on your pants. Butler. Right. Okay, right. Got it. You know, dream on like when guys build those graphics, I go, you're just a clown. Just stop. Don't everybody everybody MRs on people. The problem for Orlando is, you know, I know what they were trying to do. I look. I don't want to turn this in Orlando thing because we're going to do an hour straight of magic stuff, but there those guys are not dysfunctional idiots. And there are other franchises that are far worse off in their from office in the magic art. I mean, it's just that's just unfair. Inaccurate. Wow. John, it's, yeah, I'm going right at Simmons there. Look out Nick. Need to be higher than that ranking. Sorry, we'll move on. Yeah, agreed. Okay. I have a question for you. So the Hugh Jackson thing was really funny, so the Browns went in overtime. Everybody's tying it's a blast like, yeah, sure. Let's make the game safer, or we're gonna have more ties, Hugh Jackson put up to. Then means he definitely didn't know the rules. Correct. One hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, there's no real debate around that. I did anybody else try to propose it was something else now. Yeah. I mean, it's not like you're going to. They just kicked a field goal. So what else get with you. Yeah. So what you want to say, hey, second one of the year I don't. I listen. And here's the thing like I wasn't even anti Hugh when he was one in thirty one because I thought it was unfair. And if you look at their speaking of first round picks, if you talked about the Phoenix Suns, when you looked at the Browns missing on what five straight years in at this point, the you go, okay, here's five troopers round picks that aren't on the roster if you're a GM event NFL team and you said, hey, guys, just for giggles. Let's see if we can pick five. First rounders were none of them were on the roster after the fifth pick, it'd be hard to do that. Even if you picked a guy, you thought sucked. You're evaluating like you would. You would get one wrong. You would say guy was terribly into being good because he would just like five drafts. You were going to get something wrong. They pulled it off. So I didn't wanna hold all that against you. Maybe I should have. I just think that's like that just tells you there's tiers of coaches, then understand what's going on, and there's others that don't. I mean, the hard knocks thing I feel like after I watched hard knocks, it was just like I feel bad for this dude. He just, I don't want to go in on him and he in over his head and. You know that whole scene hard knocks where he's arguing with his coaches and they want to do something else. And he's in the meetings thing. This is my team. And when you get your team, you can run your team. I have my team. We're going to do it this way and nobody agreed with him and nobody has. Just like this, how much longer can this be a, honestly, it's annoying because you, you know, I'm rooting for Baker like I want. I want Baker to be awesome, and I just wonder how awesome he can be with that group. They are right now. Yeah. All right. So, yeah, I don't wanna go in on him too much because they're winning games like, what are we going to start doing anti Brown segments now that they're winning games like that doesn't seem fair. I just thought the two seconds thing was a tough look. Okay. I'm gonna throw a hypothetical at you. 'cause Hopkins was incredible for Houston, and I, you know, on the whole, we don't talk about this guy. Enough list is really long of all these things that we supposedly don't talk about enough general consensus that it's either Julio Antonio Brown or Odell Beckham is the best receiver in the league, right? Yup. And I think Hopkins should be mentioned in that group. I think you can tell that athletically. He's not thought to be as crisp like, I don't know if anybody runs routes as well as Brown does. He's not physically as imposing as Jones, and he doesn't have that high end ho. Holy bleep. What are we going to do with this guy? That Odell has right. I think that's how. This is my somewhat, you know, again willing to admit that I don't know everybody's routes and all that kind of stuff, but it's a sneaky. Good at everything. Hands are incredible play's. So tough contested catches. I'd argue that his contested catch ability is better than any of those guys. And then there's, there's always the AJ greens of the world where I go, you know what? Like AJ? She get mentioned more. You know, he hasn't had ten touchdowns in a game though, and I went through at this morning at ten touch in a game would be a lot. I apologize. Ten touchdowns in a season. He hasn't had that since his third year. Yeah, yeah. Became you argue that thing about Julio Julio hasn't scored a touchdown in two years Julio plays more than you think. I always feel like Julio's banged up been on the injured list and speaking of teams like I was going to go through all the first place teams, I'll just give it a little time because there's a lot of teams in first place. Like we're doing this again. Atlanta was a team on paper, but they lose probably the second best safety do, oh, in the NFL. Those guys are out linebackers out for half the year. They lost a guard to detect left the game this past week. And Julio apparently was banged up during practice. I always feel like Julio's dinged a little bit. And the other thing is that like I've even seen it in Steelers games, Judas getting all these catches well, guess what you just getting all those catches because they're selling out to stop Antonio Brown, and you have to see how the game plan breaks down and some leaks there. Later on for Antonio still stay engaged. You get his chances, and that's what's happened with Brown on Julio gets absolutely shut out. And you know, there's a miscast. There's a tip ball, Ryan admitted. He missed him on a deep one, but what was the tight ended up with nine or ten catches for like a career high? We'll there's a reason he ended up with a million catches because the Steelers defense was selling out, but like land is a great example of, oh man. What happened to those guys? Well, they're missing half their defense and teams have injuries, but they're completely snake bit and right out of the shoe and being competitive. Now they're what one in four and they get absolutely smoked by Pittsburgh. But here's the question right. As we talk about all of these guys, would you rather have John Hopkins or Oto Beckham junior, you have to. Actor all in after he did the sit down with sina where you know this is that delicate balance of, we want our guys to be honest, but then it's a little too on and she basically calling everybody else out well, so there's a report to that. The giants didn't know about this interview which is also not ideal? No. Now I can take contract into this. Because now you have to, you have to pay him boat now, like we can't do rookie deal vet deal. I'm just saying you can have Hopkins or you can have Odell. I think the real easy answer is to just say Hopkins based on what we saw this weekend. I just think Odell special like he's just like, I want that guy on my team and I, I'll figure it out. And I honestly, here's the thing too is like how many things that you say that we're really wrong other than like guys getting twenty targets. Like that's obviously ridiculous. Like they're not many people get twenty targets game. No, but wicker sham had a really interesting tweet. He says, contract extension, usually encourage behavior as opposed to correct it. So everybody played nicer a couple of months. You've got all the money, and I just feel like it's drama with him every single week. And the thing is he's probably still the right answer. Yeah, I would. I would roll the dice to be honest with you. And I like I like nuke the greatest thing about about letting go Hopkins all the time is you can call them new cop-killer. I liked the nickname, but the crazy thing is like remember how everyone loves Sammy Watkins at Clemson and to look at where they both are now like, like nuke is so much better than them now and and walk ins was so much better in college. Like, I'm just amazed by that how it didn't work out? Yes, Sammy not being good is incredible. And the fact that Kansas City is still. Paid them and like Sammy missed chunks. I know he missed what two weeks ago. He was out of the game and they still won. And I, I mean, Jacksonville. You got. You got like the Nevin Shapiro like Bortles has been against New England. He was Nevin Shapiro on a Saturday in south beach, and then the last couple of weeks, especially against Kansas City. You got the Bortles Nevin Shapiro Tuesday cubicle. How the hell am I gonna pay for all this stuff? Thrown helmets and I don't know what that was about. So it's it's been ugly. Okay. To thought pieces. I gotta find that Sam hinkie tweet. I'm going to double check that because it was such a such a nerdy reference. It was really bad. He. He was like, here's some things I'm thinking of like recently, like tweeted out this thing. He's like here. Things have been, here's a list of side projects. This is a month ago. I often think about Sam, hinkie dot com. Interested in collaborating on one of these topics. So. Hi, you're on the right. So it's basically a link to these side projects, and it's just basically almost like a word document and. He used this phrase that was so weird. Okay. He was projects best books servicing the very best book for you would be delight machine. Yeah, I'm just reading now instantly a delight machine. A couple of. By France can't stand him, can't stand him. They're like, are you serious with this crap? You know, these guys are are smart. People are just Renault. No, no, no, no. Like, you know, I'm not. I love him. Yeah, love them. But these these are like banker types that just go. Guys. The light machine. They sent me both sent me the Lincoln dependent of each other boys. At again. I'm like, look, I like Hanky. I'm not a disciple. All right. Here's the, here's a delight machine for you. Would Aaron Rodgers be Philip rivers, if you didn't have the one Super Bowl, gangs and five, we'll talk to you next week.
The Russillo Show