2 Episode results for "Pew Research Center Women"
Should Women and Men Handle Money Differently? #317
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I can't believe we actually went through with this topic. I'd like to ask questions potentially get me in trouble that we're actually going to do an episode on this but we after discussion. You felt that know there. Were definitely some insights that we can glean from talking about how it is that men and women might be handling their money differently and there just so many studies to inform us about how men and women have hailed money differently in the past. But i think to. There's a way forward after we see that. Yes that information. And i think yeah you and i are going to have some good advice hopefully to share for men and women based on the stats that we've seen in the studies that are out there and we're going to also do our very best to not completely step in it because that's what i feel like right now is that we're about to step in it. Why promised we're not gonna come at this from like a madman. Okay even though we do like a nice beverage during our work days before we get into that though. You wanna talk about this fence issue that you got going on in my hyping it up. Maybe it's not an issue. Actually well remains to be seen whether it's an issue or not yet so at at one of my rental properties my my next door neighbor who actually have never met We used to live in that home. my next door neighbor rents out his home and so even when we lived in that house i never met him but he left a note on the door. Saying hey please call me. I want to talk about some stuff. Tenant really that on over to me and it turns out. He wants to replace the fence. That goes in between both of our yards. And i will say the fence not attractive in. It actually looks pretty rough. It's a chain link fence. It just has not held up well over the years but chain link fences of definitely fallen out of favor. I mean i'm not gonna lie. They're pretty hideous. Like we've got one back back. I mean from a utilities standpoint. They're pretty great. I mean it's like they will probably be there for another one hundred years if you let it you know this one definitely will not really you know it's already kinda fallen apart in some spots. And so yeah. He wants to replace it together. And so we're in the midst of getting a quote kinda see how much it costs and if it's inexpensive willing to jump in on this Especially it's just like. I feel like it's the right thing to do but i will say to man if the quote comes back and it's too high. I'm not going to be down for it because it is something. That's just not a high priority on my list. I've never had ten complain about the fact that the fence is in perfect shape. And so yeah. It's kind of one of those like tvd as to whether or not You willing to go half on this fence but my gut is telling me probably not. I don't know. Is that frugal or cheap of me. Man this is such a hard one because so on one hand with it being a rental like in my mind. That's one of the benefits of having a backyard. Here in the city is the ability to have a pet is the verners thinking have got a pet. I would like for them to be able to run in the backyard. Selling point to have you know having a fenced in kind of closed in backyard they do actually so interestingly enough this fences kind of up slightly raised on a hill and and so many. My tenants have had animals. None of those animals. I've ever gotten out through the fence. Okay so it. It still does job okay. Animals since still climb hills though right now they can. But it's just it's it's really to get through or over even with like the disrepair that it might be. Okay it's the reason. I say that because we found ourselves in a similar situation years ago at our old house before we moved out. We knew that we were going to keep that houses. A rental and the fence between us and our neighbor was in complete disrepair. I mean it was like literally there are sections of it. That had fallen over. It was an old wooden fence. It had completely rotted out over decades of being exposed to the right. And so in my mind i was like you know what i'm willing to pay because in this case this is going to be a selling point. I guess four future tenants. But yeah i mean the fact is is it. Sounds like you've got they're currently. It's still works. I'll have a tough time agreeing to replacing something that still kind of getting the job done and honestly do from a personal standpoint to like. I know that like if my neighbors here to us wanted to go in on offense. I'm not sure. If i would say yes because i personally feel that fences are a little overrated sound specifically thinking of our next door neighbors. They don't have any pets. We don't have any pets. They've got a couple of young kids and if that fence were to fall over or start to rot and we wanted to get rid of it. Like i would be totally okay if it was just one big open backyard. Yeah like i wouldn't even mind if their kids kinda you know played in our backyard a little bit and so i feel like this is like one of those expenses that it's found its way into our culture and it's like oh you've got to have a fence or if there wasn't ever yard or through the fence there you have to replace it right whereas i want to ask the question of will do you actually need to replace it like. Is that something that you could do without. Because it's not like. I gained a lot of joy from the fact that is offense between us and so i think in my mind it kind of depends. If it's if it's an investment property rental i would lean more towards making sure that there is a functional structure there between homes but if it's me personally as long as they don't have a dog. I don't want a dog running over. Pooping in the that would suck but otherwise offensive might be overrated. I think i'm with you. And i'll wait and see what the or the quote comes back out if it's pretty low estimate if it's a reasonable then Jump in on this but my natural tendency is to say now the kind of crummy fence is mostly doing. Its job still gets done. So let's just leave good enough alone. I i actually still want to see how that fence is falling apart. Because in my mind chain link fences they don't fall apart like a metal. I'll show you some. Pictures are mentioned the beer that we're having on the show today. This one's called on cassette anthem. This is a brewery out of north carolina. They make excellent beer. So looking forward to sharing this one on this episode with you today matt but let's go into the subject at hand we're asking. The question should women and men handle money differently and matt. I think part of the reason that we decided to tackle this kind of sensitive topic this week because valentine's day is coming up this weekend. We figured we'd create an episode. That discusses the differences between how men and women handle money there will of course be some generalizations in this episode. We want to get that out of the way up front. Many women buck the trend and handle their money very differently than how studies show. And we're going to be quoting a lot of studies in this episode. Brace yourself and vice versa. To right there's a lot of men who handle money a whole lot different than study show as well sure. I think there's a general belief that men shoot from the hip when it comes to money and some of the surveys bear that out. But that's obviously not the case for all dudes either. But i think there are things that we can learn from the data about the tendencies of each sex in their views and actions in the realm of personal finance man. We have an open combo today. Essentially about the pros and cons of how men and women stereotypically handle money so that we can find some common ground and then i'll start to make better financial decisions based on the information that's set in front of us. Yeah that's right and and you know you mentioned the research. And i'm glad did because i mean that is what we're going to be looking at we're gonna looking at surveys reports research. And even though these studies are focusing on individuals tweets maybe some tweets. Maybe no tweets okay. I wanted to mention that. We're we're not necessarily downplaying the fact that there are like structural issues within our society in with an employer's right like specific companies that lead to some of these some of these differences between how men and women are treated or or how they handle their money right. There are certainly changes that need to be made in in different steps that companies in our society as a whole needs to take to make sure there is more parody. But i mean this is how to money and so what we talk about. Our personal changes we can make in our own lives We're not necessarily looking at policy. We're not looking at some of these larger issues. That are a part of the equation but it is important to acknowledge the existence. Say yes that's part of the deal. Here we are gonna and some of the stats that we're going to convey in this episode are in part related to some of the structural problems that exist in our society. Yeah man you know. It's also important to note that covid man it is had an even greater impact on women than it has on men You know we. We talked about the source of end of last year but an overwhelming number of m- women Have left the work place. Since spring of last year in large part due to the childcare needs other families women are leaving their jobs at a rate four times the rate of men which is crazy and a recent fidelity study found that thirty nine percent of women who haven't made a change yet are considering a change to the work situation. You either leaving your job. Or maybe reducing hours. Due to covid. And i study estimates that taking a short career hiatus could cost upwards of one hundred fifty thousand dollars in future. Well yeah and so. It's just important to note that these decisions have implications beyond just money But it's worth noting that many women find themselves in an even more precarious financial position. Right now yemen. I think we'll see in this episode. Part of the problem isn't that women are worse with money than men that is i think sometimes the prevailing narrative But that's not actually true. And i think actually when we dig into it. We'll find in many of the scenarios we're gonna talk about. Women actually have a better concept of how to handle their money in any actually handle money. Better in practice can do a better job. All that's certainly part of the takeaway today and But one of the issues. The women do struggle with more than men is the level of confidence that they have. When making money decisions. There was study of small business owners from the university of cambridge and they found twenty percent. Fewer women admitted to their business prospering compared to their male counterparts even though their businesses were experiencing a greater level of ability so women their businesses were doing better doing great but they just couldn't admit it they couldn't. They didn't have the confidence to say that that was the case and maybe some of it was The the opposite a little too much bravado in the case of the males in that survey right. But i think one of the things that we want to talk about in today on the show is you know you and i both want to see men and women exude confidence in their money. Choices and confidence is tied to knowing what you're doing you can be confident when you know how the game is played and you know the next steps to take. Which is matt just such a big part of the reason you and i started to money. They want people to have confidence to make the right moves with their money. And i feel like the feedback. We get from of our listeners. Is that that's the impact of the show has had people who didn't otherwise what to do they now have a playbook and that breeds confidence In that allows them to go out there and start kicking but with their personal finances. Absolutely do nia and and one of the reasons to that. We're talking about this today and why we feel. This is so important is that hopefully this gives us maybe a little bit of insight into the inner workings of our spouse or our partner a little window into how the brain functions i think that better understanding of why our significant other things the way they do about money can be helpful in future money discussions and decisions and plus to hopefully it has further reaching implications as well. You know the more known and understood someone feels like that's going to lead to them feeling more cared for more loved which is only going to result in a stronger relationship knowing our partners tendencies is super helpful in how we approach him with discussions in particular about money. Maybe we'll be less combative when we're bringing up the topic in general because we better understand where they're coming from. Also matt i think knowing the money tendencies that each sexist prone to it can actually help. Teach our kids to handle their money. Better versus using outdated methods of instruction that maybe lead to some of the disparities that we see in financial outcomes for men and women currently families look different in two thousand twenty one. They looked thirty years ago or even just a decade ago stats show that we're seeing far more stay at home. Dads and more women bringing home the bacon and that's awesome so make sure that our sons daughters received the identical lessons when it comes to money and i think matt sometimes in the past That that wasn't the case that young girls and young boys were taught differently about how to think about money and personal finances. I think in today's day and age. They need the same lessons because they're both right. Just as likely to go out in the workforce. They're both just as likely to own their own business to me saving for things for the future and to be investing for retirement and so they need all of the same personal finance knowledge poured into their lives as youngsters. Yeah i mean the reason that they're just as likely is osso too because they're just as capable right and so you know another reason to that we feel this is important is because we you know that listeners will be able to handle their money better by being able to recognize certain patterns tendencies you know regardless of their gender. You might realize that you don't fit the gender stereotypes as we discuss them and that's totally okay. And in fact you know like you said like this might be a good thing and if you do find yourself nodding your head when we talk about how your gender does typically handle their money at least in some of these studies will then this episode. We'll be eye-opening As we're gonna talk about some important instructions as to how you can move forward and so we'll get to some of the specific ways that know men and women might handle their money a little bit differently but then specifically what you can do about that and we'll get to all of that right after this break with no fees or minimums on checking and savings accounts banking with capital. One is like the easiest decision in the history of decisions kind of like choosing to listen to another episode of your favorite podcast and with capital. Once top rated app you can deposit. Checks ain't transfer money anytime anywhere making capital on an even easier decision. That's banking reimagined. What's in your wallet. Terms apply capital one. Na member fdic good afternoon would you like to try a free sample of our double fudge brownie. Sure that's very good. I'll just take one more just to be sure. Yep still very good. Some things never change like never being able to take just one free sample and geico. Saving folks. Lots of money on their car insurance macadamia nut. I taste take one more sir. I thought south fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more back in the break asking the question today. Should women and men handle money differently. Matt the answer to that question is going to be now. But there's so much information that we came across creating this episode that we feel is important share and i think it sheds a lot of light in how men and women have historically handle their money differently And then i think you know you. And i have a way forward for all of us together that we wanna get to me. There was a book that i never read. But i remember. It was so popular. Couple of decades ago called minna from mars women are from venus and that just sounds like a book from bygone era because it does. I don't know if it's still sold in bookstores. I'm sure you could find us books or something like that. It also makes me. Think of tgif On friday it's like going home watching the four shows. Which one was your favorite handled. Mr cooper or Boy meets world Sabrina the teenage witch classic. Big fan of that one. I obviously never read by the way men are from mars. Women are from venus. I wasn't really because you're like ten came out exactly but you can tell by the title. The author was highlighting gender differences in while men and women do have far more in common than the author probably would like to admit who wrote that book. There are some really important divergences that are worth of our consideration. Yeah so first of all. Let's talk about how you get money in the first place and that is earn it right and according to the pew research center Women earned eighty five percent of what men earned in two thousand eighteen That pay gap is shrinking Particularly for younger workers which is a positive trend but that is still a meaningful hurdle to overcome. The pay. Gap is partly due to to work history. You know like having kids great you know. But as we mentioned with the fidelity study earlier taking time off to have quetta's like it often leads to job offers in worse income prospects not to mention the years of not generating any income which often reflects years of not investing in a workplace retirement account in particular. If there's a match there right and those are some big disadvantages to overcome yell like you said at the beginning matt that stat also reflects some structural issues when it comes to male and female pay. But here's another thing to matt When we're talking about pay women are actually often averse to asking for more money than their male counterparts. There was a survey from ron saad. Last year the found that sixty percent of women have never negotiated with employer. Overpay women are also more likely to stay at a lower wage job to according to The personal finance web site the balance. And that's not good right because even just a small bump in pay with a new employer or in a job that been in for years can have just a massive impact on your ability to earn more throughout the years and then also save more for retirement. So i think of all of the things in this episode where we see. Maybe you know women as sex falling short. It is in in the ability to ask for more at knowing what they're worth again. This is another instance where you might be listening and you're thinking i've never had a problem negotiating a race like i've never had a problem asking for more money so again. It's important to keep in mind that though the research shows us like we know any totally doesn't apply to everyone. I'm specifically thinking of two conversations with Kirstin and julian saunders. The couple behind rich and regular that was episode. Eighty six and julianne was just bragging. About how great pearson is at negotiating. Evidently she's just like the queen negotiating more. Pay if you had to listen to that upset go back and listen to that one. Is that regardless of your gender. Earning more it's just so important right and all of us could stand to our abilities on that front And we've had lots of different conversations on the show that specifically cover you know not just stories of individuals negotiating but just how to go about doing that. I'm of Ramiz sadie that was Backing up said one ten and he outlined a great process a great method You know when it comes to wanting to up your salary. You know what steps you need to take. In order to negotiate a solid race gam thinking to matt had far new darabi on the show. She is just awesome personal finance expert and at the same time. She is someone who has made a killing as a small business owner. She knows her worth. she knows. how to negotiate. Yes so like you said there are many women out. there are crushing it. Who don't have a problem and asking for what they're worth. Who don't have a problem asking for a raise. It's just when you read those statistics. There are obviously a number of women who do though. And i wanna see. That number changed for the benefit of women as a whole absolutely. Let's about spending to do women spend more. That's an interesting question. My wife personally met hates to shop. I really. She just defies the stereotypes. And actually i don't know i don't mind shopping. A little bit roles are a little bit reverse exactly but there was a study by the wharton school of business that found that women are more likely to view shopping as a recreational activity. My mom definitely fits that bill Most men wanna leave the store with their purchases quickly as possible but even though women enjoy shopping more it turns out men still spend more than women in a typical year so while men might not enjoy the process of shopping as much. They still shopping. Just from a utilitarian standpoint sure yeah also that increase spending with the stats as well. There's there's a survey from wallet hub earlier this year. They showed that men are more likely to max out a credit card. Women are apparently seven percent less likely than men to have maxed out credit card at least once in so while women they might enjoy the shopping experience. More than men do a lot of different stats. Show that women are more cost conscious. They're more likely to shop at alice. Stores more likely to to wait till something they want is actually on sale The store brands more than men. And so you know when it comes to spending this this is definitely a win in this category for sure And so i i of see this as a call to min to stop spending so much money on neighboring items fan. Yeah i feel like. I'm totally guilty of this. I totally fall into the study. I don't like to go looking for the best deal. I do because i'm spending less but like i'll look at maybe two or three different sites and then i just purchase right whereas for you like i feel you are so good at hunting and making sure you're keeping your eyes on the best deals out there making sure that you're spending the the least amount of money possible. I feel that's something that we all need to make sure that we're doing right. And so you know regardless of who you are. We should all work to just become a little more conscious and how it is that we spend our money. I gotta say mets. I don't care whether you're man or woman but store brands should be high on your list because they're going to save you a ton of money it's just like in savings when you go for the storebrand over the name brand equivalent unless it's your craft beer equivalent And you're wanting to spend a little bit more on the because it makes you feel nice. Can't name brand everything though. I think i think sometimes that's a tendency here. Maybe that men have The men just gravitate towards the name brand no matter what it is without thinking about it and that's where we need to shake things up right and we we need to consider storebrand's more frequently also too. I think we've talked about this. The quality of store brand items has gone up a whole lot in recent years. Her kirkland signature brag. There's other ones too man. Like target has some great Store brands that are better than their name brand equivalent. Sometimes so yeah. It's not just costco yeah costco rockstar Let's see let's talk about saving as well. There's more good news here. It turns out that the the savings rate for women is actually higher than their male counterparts. They save a higher percentage of their pay. They spend less of what they bring in and much of. That is due to the more frugal. Tendencies that we just highlighted when we talked about spending differences but even the women are saving a higher percentage of their income on average. They've actually got less than thirty percent of what men have in savings accounts according to data from the federal reserve from a few years ago That is likely due to the fact that overall they're still making less like we discussed earlier which means a smaller amounts of money saved overall. Yeah one of the reasons. Women have a higher savings rate as well Is that according to a survey by. Us bank women of all ages value financial security more than men do. But here's the thing than that. Focus on financial. Security can often backfire. If you keep more of your overall assets and savings and cds instead of invested in the stock market right like savings for saving for long-term goals is really important but so is investing For the really long term. So that's actually what we're going to talk about next. We're in talk about investing right after this break. Valentine's day is coming up and we all deserve a little love now more than ever. That's where urban stems comes. It urban stems delivers modern bouquets and stylish plants next state nationwide every delivery includes a personalized your recipient thoughtfully designed packaging and a one hundred percent. Happiness guarantee every bouquet is designed in house an on trend urban stems even has a new dried bouquets selection full of lasting stems with vases included. Take your pick from a variety of modern bouquets at urban stems dot com and. Choose your own vase. Candles chocolates and more checkout. 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Businesses can even use to train and teach new employees from a safe distance ensuring smooth transition with people who are thoroughly prepared join thousands of entrepreneurs creating and selling their own online courses and start monitoring your skills today at ich dot com. That's t h. I n k i f i dot com are back. Break still tackling the tenuous subject of men women and money how they handle money differently but then also how we can all think about money in a similar way because we're really all in the same boat when it comes down to it. Yeah and let's talk specifically investing for a minute. There was a study from blackrock that found that women find less joy in managing their investments. I found that interesting out. They're just like a women care less. They're less interested less intrigued by investing. And honestly i think that's okay. And and interestingly enough. I think i can even pay off for women i have interest can have a positive benefit. We'll talk about that in a second. I hope everyone listening to this. Podcast regardless of their gender starts to gain an interest in all things money and finds not just in saving their money but investing and growing that nest egg talk about how a tampered down. Enthusiasm can actually be more beneficial your investing success in the long run. Yeah so you're talking about joy right and so we're we're men might have a little more enthusiasm a little more a little bit more joy when it comes to managing their portfolios could actually maybe a little bit more misery the stock market in general and frequent trading specifically have historically been more of an obsession foreman kiplinger has reported that men trade stocks much more frequently than women and the more frequently We trade the worst. Our investments are going to perform. Men are getting a little too into investing by by getting into individual stocks. It's important for us to take calculated risks. Like these are things that we need to do. In order to see growth when it specifically when it comes to our portfolios but when you take too much risk and when you're too involved in the stock market and specifically when you're not exactly sure what you're doing that is going to lead to worst performance. Yeah we talked about that. Before matt more frequently people trade you might trigger tax consequences. You are in all likelihood going to be paying a fee win. You're trading stocks retail as well. There's just so many things to consider. And the more movement you make in your portfolio in all likelihood the worship going perform another thing too when we're talking about investing and how women and men respond well. An important thing to consider is that women live longer than men about five years longer on average according to stats from the cdc. So that means that they need to plan to invest For a longer time horizon that includes a greater willingness to invest more heavily in stocks. And if possible putting aside even more in retirement funds and. I know that that's actually hard matt. Considering that you know we just talked about how women earn less on average than men and yet they're gonna live longer and they need to save and invest more of their money. But it's so important in particular for women to be aware of this. I'm thinking about my grandma who's ninety and she having to make decisions about her financial future and she might still have ten twelve fifteen more years left to live and planning for a longer lifespan. Means investing early and often is just even that much more important exactly yeah and so regardless of your gender having savings as great right in fact it's crucial but remember that inflation is the enemy of your savings account like. That's the real enemy here over the past few decades we've seen inflation right at two and a half percent in regularly investing more of your income. That's going to give you important options for your future. You're not going to be able to preserve that money if you have it sitting in a savings account. That's not earning that inflation rate on. Both ends of the spectrum are sort of these extremes that we want to avoid. We can't completely avoid investing but we also don't want to become you know so preoccupied by it. We ended up shooting ourselves in the foot. Because we're jumping in and out of the market. We're trying to time it where we know we're dabbling and single stock investing when we don't know what we're doing again it's hard to find a balance but that's what we're trying to do here on how to money i think in particular investing is a place where men and women can both learn from each other. We could all stand to have some enthusiasm when it comes to investing but not too much that it causes us to go to complex with our investments or two disinterested where we don't invest and all right. I think there's a healthy approach to investing. Both men and women should be taking. That looks pretty similar. I think to matt like knowledge breeds confidence. It doesn't matter who you are. The more you know the more likely you are to make the right decisions for your own financial good and for your financial future and especially if you're in a relationship right. Both individuals need the confidence that more money knowledge provides too smart and savvy partner's coming to the table tackle. Their money goals together is going to have a really important impact trying to be the lone ranger. Managing your family's finances with a completely disinterested partner is gonna lead to some unhealthy. I think in the relationship. And i don't think it's that you both have to be just as interested or just as committed. It's okay if your spouse is more fascinated by the realme. I i'll finance van. You are but at the same time. I think it's really important for both members of that couple to be able to sit down together and talk about money in both of you to have a say in where that money's going. I think some of these statistics. Matt you and i have been relaying in. This episode. Actually reflects a level of unhealthiness. That is taking place when it comes to gender differences in how we approach personal finance and i would love it if in our lifetime. If in the coming decades we start to see men and women Both sexes handling money. Better each of them having seat at the table play more of a role in family finances. Because i think as we see there's like a balance it's needed when it comes to gender dynamics and personal finance and we're looking for balance soon not just between couples but just even within ourselves right ultimately men and women like they don't have as opposite of an approach as the headlines might make it seem like one gender is better than the other you know when it comes to how they handle their money men and women they might have some different psychological and historical seidel norms to overcome when it comes to achieving their financial goals but the actual path that we take as individuals should look more similar than dissimilar is important for everyone to have the right financial education and the tools necessary so that we're able to make the right decisions for our future when you look at the numbers. We could all do a much better job when it comes to our personal finances you know when it comes to money i feel like we need a sort of a renaissance of a personal finance interest in education in our country in order to raise the tide for everyone and i think we could all be doing a better job when it comes to our money. Yeah i think you're right. Man i think ultimately enter the questions should men and women handle money differently. I think the answer is no. We should all be working to earn more money. And no we're worth when it comes to our jobs we should all be looking to spend more cautiously with the money that we have we shall be saving more diligently and we should actually be investing and get interested enough in it to do it well and to do it consistently but not so interested. They're like yosemite. Sam when it comes to pulling the trigger on random investment sales and stuff like that but hopefully this episode provided some perspective for when it comes to maybe some of the tendencies that you experience in your own life with how you handle money and some of the ways to to move forward in a positive way most definitely man all right. Let's shift gears. Let's get back to the beer that we enjoyed on this episode. This one was called on cassette and this is a beer by new anthem. They are out of wilmington north carolina. What were your thoughts on this bearded man. This is delicious. I a little velvety. Some night. Like peach fuzz action. Going on soft mouth like that. I get that it was slightly sweet but it also had enough bitterness. That i just really appreciated. I think a lot of the new. Ip as can be overly sweet. But this one's still retained some bitter hop character that i really like having a beer but offered that inside the package of something that was more juicy and sweet and so yeah. I like the combo going on at the same time. Yeah that's right so this was a double ipa. And you know it's not like this is a bitter like a west coast bitter you know. And so for that reason. I like to describe it less as bitter and more as like sharp you know and so i feel like the hot flavors are really sharp pungent it was like so pungent because almost smoky like the because of the presence that was there. I've mentioned this previously on the show before but like it. It truly does remind me of like pungency that you get with a blue cheese or you put it in your mouth and you feel like. It's kind of fuming. A little like you can kind of feel it in your sinuses. A little bit. And i feel that's one of the characteristics of these new england. Ip as i can. I feel like i got hops in my sinuses. Which is would also probably be a pretty good name of a beer. Somebody will probably do it at some point. But i really enjoy the swing. Glad you. I got the shared on the episode and yeah new anthem. They're just always making some really good beers up there. And i realized this was the actual. I knew anthem beer. I think that we've had on the show. I looked in our little Beer catalog expecting to see. Maybe this one making sure that we hadn't had it before. And i didn't see that we have had a single anthem beer which was really confusing. Like maybe we've had a collaboration before within listener. Send us a beer from north carolina one time and it was a collaboration beer and i think new anthem was the other in that are like a. They showed up and helped out what else. It's been a minute though. So i don't remember but be glad we finally got to have a legit new anthem beer on the show and that's going to do it for this episode matt so for our listeners. Who want the show notes for this episode. Some of the links to some of the studies that we mentioned you can go to our website at how to money dot com. Yeah that's right up there on the website. We have a lot of different resources in also on the website. If you go to money dot com slash do better if you want to leave some feedback if you have some thoughts to share in particular on a topic like we discussed today you have whether it's a personal story or anecdote or just anything else you'd like to put in front of us we would love to hear from you. We're always interested in hearing what our listeners have to say. Just drop us a line and again that you are l. is how many dot com slash. Do better our buddy. Let's go to do it for this episode until next time. Best friends out as friends out With the kobe. Nineteen pandemic stolen. The rise and businesses needing to adapt entrepreneurs are moving to online courses. More than ever start your own online course and get in on the ground floor of the hottest entrepreneurial trend with thick think if it makes creating marketing and selling customized online courses. Simple drill your business by sharing your skills knowledge and talents with the world whether you are guitar teacher or a business coach. Think if it can help you reach an teach millions start selling your online course today at dot com that's think i f ic- dot com. How can you make money. That's the big question. Lot of people's minds right now as covert has changed how we think about doing business. Online training is skyrocketing across every industry and people are doing it with think ethic. Think if is your solution to sharing your knowledge skills. Passions and expertise with the world. Yeah think put your training and education content online putting you in complete control of how to build and deliver your courses. 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#ERA Now: The Fight For Gender Equality in the Constitution
"Hi, Melissa Milano, and this is sorry. Not sorry, where we tackle social political and cultural issues from the perspective of unapologetic guests while highlighting citizen activists doing amazing things throughout the country. Ooh. Today's episode is a special one dedicated to the equal rights, amendment after thirty six years, congress finally held a hearing in April on the ER a which I was fortunate enough to attend. It was a powerful day. And both women and men spoke to the importance of getting this amendment passed in this episode. You'll hear from Representative Carolyn Maloney, my friend, Kate Kelly, human rights attorney, Kimberly Johnson, an author and activist and many more voices on why this is so crucial. And why we need the ER a now. Hi, this is congresswoman Carolyn Maloney from New York, and I'm fighting to ratify the equal rights amendment. Hi, I'm Kate Kelly, and I fight for the rights of women and all marginalized genders really Johnson. And on fighting the ER a slurry now. It was almost a hundred years ago in nineteen Twenty-three that Alice Paul leader of the women's suffrage movement. I introduced to the public and idea of what would eventually become the proposed equal rights amendment. Rising voices of women passage of civil rights laws and the power organized labor all helped to build momentum in the seventies when it passed congress, this has been a lifetime campaign for many of us a lifetime campaign. It doesn't start in nineteen Twenty-three with Alice Paul, actually, we have been an afterthought in this country since the beginning of this country constitutionists rocks that after proposed amendment receives that are fired. Two thirds of the vote each of the houses. It has to be ratified by three quarters of the states after the area was sent to the states and seventy two ratified by thirty five the necessary, thirty eight state legislatures, but for decades, extraordinary progress, toward quality, stall, well organized counter boop, scared the American people into thinking that the guarantee of quality was somehow harm women who stay at home to racer children and would erode American. Families would it started as a matter of broad consensus became another divisive issue in the culture wars. So my interest in the rights management happened after me to sort of went big and people kept telling me like what, what comes next. What happens next with me, too? And so I started doing a lot of research on. Women's rights and the women's rights movement and learned about the goal rights amendment. Now, this was what two years ago, and it just seemed like as I was reading about it like, what, of course, this is such a no brainer. And I think I was very much like the eighty five percent of Americans who think women are protected in the constitution other than the nineteenth amendment. So I just assumed that there was something already in there to protect us. So that's, that's where my interest came from. Where did your interest come from? So I was raised Mormon. So, I learned about the equal rights as though it were evil the Mormon church played a very pivotal role in killing the original fight for the rights moment. And there was a woman who led a what's called Mormons four the era and she was excommunicated from the Mormon church as a result. And it was this really big story. And so I remember learning about. About her miss on your as though she was this evil terrible heretic, because she wanted equal rights for women in the constitution and she defied the church and my grandmother. So the Mormon church organized women in every state to oppose the a and they kind of appointed a person a point person for media and each state to be anti. And my grandmother was the anti are a point person for the Mormon church in the state of Arizona. Let's back up a little bit. Can you explain to our listeners about a little bit about the history of the mend -ment? Yeah. So the rights amendment was written in nineteen Twenty-three by woman named Alice Paul who fought really, really visit firstly for the nineteenth amendment Alice, Paul sort of ramped up the rhetoric and included fasting and all of these different protests tactics that she had learned in the UK brought it back to the US, and then really, really. Sealed the deal on the nineteenth amendment, and soon as the nineteenth man was passed Alice Paul, and others, began planning, and scheming, and organizing for what would come next for women, so Alice, Paul introduced the equal rights amendment in nineteen Twenty-three in Seneca falls. And every year from nineteen Twenty-three onward, the equal rights amendment was introduced in congress. In fact, it was on the platforms of both political parties both Republicans and Democrats until it passed in nineteen seventy two. So had this kind of wide bipartisan support, and then the women's movement came along and really catapulted into fruition by the end of the century. I hope this nation will be a place where men and women in freely. Choose their life's work without restrictions in without ridicule. I watch though the women's movement belong more to my daughter's than to me. But I have come to know that it belongs to women all agents. I am cloud, say, and I won't you to know that Texas was the ninth state to ratify the right of women vote and. And the seventh state to ratify the equal rights amendment. Watched. Together never. It passed in nineteen seventy two but congress put a deadline on it, and we can talk more about the deadline, but there was a seven year deadline initially in nineteen seventy eight congress voted to extend the deadline, so they extended the deadline to nineteen eighty two and it passed in thirty five of the states. So according to article five of the US constitution, our amendment to the constitution has to be passed in congress and ratified by three fourths of the states. So that's thirty eight so we came to thirty five and the deadline expired. So we are just three states short in nineteen eighty two I was born in nineteen eighty so a lot of people my age and younger, don't even know about the ER a because the main fight for it really died off, before we were born, and then fast forward where we're at now the twenty seventh amendment is the most recent amendment in that amendment has to do with congressional pay raise. Is-is it was proposed by James Madison as part of the original Bill of rights, didn't make it through. But that amendment eventually got ratified in the nineteen nineties, so two hundred and three years later after it was proposed the twenty seventh amendment was ratified. So that gave a lot of hope for equal rights advocates all around the country to say okay over two hundred years later amendment can be ratified, you know, less than forties. Not really that big of a deal. So the fight for the rights really centered around this three state strategy. So getting those three additional states that we lacked in the beginning to ratify in twenty seventeen after the women's movement in the women's March and me to all these different sort of a resurgence of the women's movement, a Senator in Nevada. Pat Spearman, who's this incredible queer black preacher and a Senator in Nevada revived the fight. Ratified the Yarra in Nevada on March twenty second two thousand seventeen forty five years after the was submitted to congress Nevada became the first date to ratify the ER, a after the expiration of June, thirtieth deadline the state of Illinois followed with ratification on may the thirtieth. It was my great privilege to sponsor Senate joint resolution to which supported Nevada's, ratification in two thousand seventeen when this resolution was discussed one of the questions always asked is the ER a necessary and I continue to see evidence of the need for the ER a every day, in the nineteen ninety seven article in William and Mary journal of women. And LOL, they concluded that the need for federal equal rights amendment remains s compelling today as it was in nineteen seventy eight when the now supreme court, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, wrote into Harvard women's law journal with the equal rights amendment. We may expect congress and the state legislators to take undertake in earnest. Statically and pervasively the law revised so long deferred. And in the event of legislative default, the coach will have an unassailable basis to apply the bedrock principle. All men and women are created equal pay equity, or maybe I should say pay inequity is still a significant concern. Although the gender pay gap is narrowing, according to the Pew Research Center, women of the United States, earned just eighty cents eighty percent of what their male counterparts earn women of color. Black women typically make only sixty percent and Latina's make only fifty percent of what white non Hispanic male counterparts make a common work. I common theme of workforce issues for women is the lack of paid leave and affordable. Childcare and the Vata the legislature is currently considering a measure that would require a private employer with fifty or more employees to provide paid leave to each employee just last week. The Nevada Senate passed Senate Bill, one sixty six. Wchs to ensure equal pay for equal work and penalize employers who practice pay discrimination, the Nevada semi will hear the Bill soon and I pay the Bill will pass as well. Governor Sisak said in his state of the state address. He intends to make pay equity the law in Nevada. And our state will have a pay equity law. Moreover, when it comes to crimes against women we continue to suffer from victim blaming such shame stigma, and the ingrain of guilt upon the female victim. So where we're at now is Raleigh, one state short of that ratification, and putting women into the US constitution. Thirty six years. Thirty six years. Since congress had a hearing on this issue that affects every single woman and man in this country without constitutional protection, pay disparities will continue to be allowed in this country because of the high obstacle of showing that there is intent to discriminate in order for a woman to prevail in court. This is real fifty percent of the major breadwinners in families today are women with children. It is time for us to take this issue. Seriously? So women Maloney of New York has always been an incredible champion for the eagle rights amendment. We, you just tell us when you're fight for the Yarra began. Oh, gosh, Elissa I think I've always been fighting for equal rights. I've always supported it. And when I went into public life, I fought even more for it. My my late husband's grandmother was the first cousin of Alice Paul, the altar of equal rights amendment who introduced it in nineteen. Twenty-three Sinica Sinica falls, New York, and was one of the leading women who who led us to the right to vote. So it was very much part of his his home life in my home life. And, and what's more important than equal rights? It's more nothing especially especially nowadays. And then we, we flash forward to just a few months ago, and the first hearing on the equal rights of men men in thirty six years. Wow. Why, why, why do you think it's taken so long? But. It have a great deal of momentum. But after after it failed, there was a time limit on it, and it did not meet that time limit, and we had to have thirty thirty eight states ratify and only had thirty five it ignited again, in the year of the woman in nineteen ninety two when Anita hill spoke out about harassment and discrimination. I've never seen women. So, so electrified they would run up to me and say things like finally someone is speaking out about it. And then with this election, this year, Trump with his election, he terrified people. He literally ran on rolling backup choice enrolling back women's rights and, and women were energized. The day after his inauguration, there were women marches all over the United States, not just in Washington. But all over the world in New York City, we thought we would have roughly ten thousand people show, the police department told me it was over seven hundred thousand women like minded men, children came out to March, we couldn't even March because the streets were so full, you couldn't even move. It was such a such a movement. And after that came the time's up movement, the metoo movement of which you are a great leader. And all these women speaking out and demanding that something be done. Women are not waiting anymore. We demand what is right. Full equality. Now, we demand that it be spelled out in the constitution and you know how to spell it he are a now. What were you feeling when you're sitting in that in that hearing that historic hearing, what was it like for you? I was deeply deeply grateful. I was really deeply grateful to a democratic majority in congress, most of the time, I've been in congress have been in the minority in no matter how much you beg. We couldn't make it happen. But we have shadow hearing because I couldn't get a hearing from the Republican majority, the year before I had a shadow hearing, and Jerry Nadler, at that hearing announce that if we got the majority, a top on his agenda, would be having a hearing finally an official federal hearing that was the, the shadow hearing that you gave such a forceful and moving testimony, it was electrified. I thought that hearing Arshi Harry, but to finally have an official hearing and know that we will soon be getting vote moving it out of committee. I just felt grateful that it had finally happened. And it's something that I was a priority of. Mine when I went to congressman nineteen ninety to leave it or not when we elected of the largest class of women ever. It was exciting to see women walk down the aisle, not to get married, but to be sworn into the United States Congress, but this year, we elected over one hundred women of for the first time since I've been in congress, the congress pro choice, so we have a we have momentum's we have strength, and we have so many women that are committed to helping to pass it it's, it's a whole new day. So there are a lot of, of naysayers that say, why do we need the ERA? Why do we need more than the fourteenth amendment? What do you say to those people because? It doesn't work. The court cases have said the fourteenth amendment does not protect women from discrimination, and most of my time in congress. I've spent a great deal of time, just fighting to hold on to what we already accomplished the constant efforts to role by title. Seventy quality of, of treatment and employment deadline equality of treatment, and in education, Betsy devices prior to gain during this administration, all these efforts to roll back the only way you're guaranteed your rights is if you're in the constitution. Laws. We pass will only be strictly enforced, if they have constitutional backup a buying training, women's equal rights in the constitution. They'll be no question as to whether discrimination on the basis of sex is unlawful and women's equality should not be dependent on which party controls, congress who's in the White House, or who's on the supreme court, our rights need to be based in a solid, legal bedrock and one of the things that I've worked on my whole life is equal pay for equal work. But the only way it will ever be enforced is, if we have the equal rights amendment where it can be enforced. It's that simple. If you have your rights in the constitution, they can be enforced. United States constitution. The world's oldest written constitution is also the only major written constitution in the world. That lacks provisions declaring that men and women are equal. And now is the chance to correct that omission that stain that embarrassment about our constitution through the ratification by just one more state of the nineteen seventy-two amendment. Just to give some examples, the French constitution provides that the law guarantees to the woman all fears rights, equal to those of Ben the German constitution provides that men and women have equal rights, and that nobody shall be prejudiced or favored because of their sex the constitution of India provides that the state shall not discriminate against any citizen on grams of sex, and every written constitution promulgated since World War. Two contains a sex equality provision, but not ours, given the vital role of the US constitution has played in inspiring and informing the written constitutions of other nations. This is a situation that cries out for correction. Eighty four percent of countries have women gender provision in their constitution put women into their constitutions, and that's not just industrialized countries. I mean we're talking like Afghanistan has a gender provision in their constitution, which we encouraged when they passed it. Exactly. So a lot of these places have these gender provision in things aren't perfect in these countries. But it really again, reflects this basic value that men and women are equal. And so when people say, well, why do we need it? Or what rights do men have that women don't have that comes up a lot, especially found Twitter. And it's like a broken record. And so first of all the fourteenth amendment was not designed to protect on the basis of sex initially, and like I said it has a different level of scrutiny so protections. For example, on the basis of race on the basis of religion on the basis of national origin. Those are all given what's called strict scrutiny. So it's like the hardest level it's very difficult to keep those laws on the books because of the eagle Reitman. Because at the time these cases were being litigated, you know, if you seen the Rb g movie Ruth Bader Ginsburg was litigating all these cases, and trying to get a really strong protection on the basis of sex. Because eagle rights amendment was pending at the time. There's a premium court essentially said, okay. Well, if people want discrimination on the basis of sex to be unconstitutional, they can pass in ratify, the equal rights minute, which is currently pending before the states in interim will create essentially a totally separate form of scrutiny, that's lower. It's called intermediate scrutiny. And it's more difficult to prove that these laws discriminate, so you have to prove intent you have to prove not just that impacted a specific category of people, but that they intended it to be discriminatory, which is a much more difficult thing to prove so because of this, a lot of these cases, they have to meet this intermediate scrutiny, but not the highest level. So women aren't fully protected under this level of scrutiny, which is a shame. So the fourteenth amendment does not go far enough to protect women. And like I said, the congress doesn't have the power to their therefore enforce it. So both gives the courts and congress this higher or better power to protect women. You know what I always say when I hear those trolls on Twitter say what? What protections don't you have you have the fourteenth amendment? I always say. Yeah but the fourteenth amendment was written well before the nineteenth amendment. So clearly, it wasn't made to cover women when we didn't even have the right to vote at at time, which is just, you know, common sense. And, and the fact that lawyers have been able to manipulate the fourteenth amendment to also include women is great, but I think that part of an I think that this is all philosophically, wound up in the same sexism and systemic misogyny. That, that me too is in sexual harassment and assault. Because to me, if we were part of the constitution, if it actually said that, that, you know, women women have equal rights, I feel that, you know, we wouldn't be considered less than. And I think that perception of less than is what enables men to abuse their power. Yeah. And I think all of these arguments really in someone mentioned it in the congressional hearing that was just had on the era, you know, men are going to use any excuse. They can to exclude us from the constitution because they don't think that we should have equal rights, and they don't want us to have equal rights. So all of these different arguments, whether they be culture, were arguments, or you're already protected or all these different things. If we were truly already protected to the same level than at worst. The equal rights movement would be repetitive and why not support it. But of course, it's not. And they don't want us to have full rights. Every time we're talking about someone has the same right as someone else, we're not talking about special rights here, which hawking about equal rights. And as I said before the trajectory is moving in the right direction, and it's moving in the right direction. Because every time I have been in a discussion about equality whether it's about racism, whether it's about sexism, whether it's about homophobia, every time we always parse words about whether or not someone has the right to a quality. We, we ratified it because it was the right thing to do. I was wondering if you could just speak a little bit to be, you're a and how it's led to your own advocacy, work. I was already an activist for women. I was I became an activist for women because of the Republican war on women that really amplified after the twenty ten midterms elections. When the tea party got in and started rolling women's rights back. So with equal rights amendment when I found out that we don't have full equality. It pushed me to it, actually gave me. I have a sense of purpose like before I mean, I still had a purpose, but I was a little bit scattered. And now I feel like this is the one thing that brings it all together. Whether it's reproductive rights, equal pay or pregnancy discrimination, or violence against women. They all fall under an, you know, there's so many laws right now in states where if a woman is. Raped, the rapist can sue her for ch- for custody and even for money. And so I think that the rights amendment, just some kind of like, solid foundation, that's going to it's not going to solve all the problems right away, but it's going to be something that we can turn to, and we can take to the supreme court and it can be cited so that when there is a federal case, the language in the amendment is so very specific that it can't be denied. And that's the problem right now, if you're going to cite the fourteenth amendment, which has been cited in many different court cases, a lawyer can turn turn things around or say, no, you know, I interpreted this way it there's nothing in the fourteenth amendment that mentions women male citizens is, is in their three times, but there's nothing for women. So when it's when it's used in court, it can be manipulated to sound like, well, no, not women. So I think the equal rights amendment is like the bedrock to everything. Else. Let's talk a little bit about why women need to be put into the constitution. Yeah. They will writes a moment is important for many reasons I would say one that a lot of people talk about in shouldn't be overlooked is, it's really a symbolic. It's a symbolic victory for women because the constitution is our most basic and foundational document. It really expresses what our core values are those include equality and freedom for everyone, and all of these different rights that are enshrined in the constitution. And if we ratify the equal rights meme, one of those values will be gender equality. So when a little girl reads the constitution in her class in elementary school. She will read through that. And she will know that men and women are equal. And I think that's a huge victory. I think the second reason we need the whole rights amendment is legal. So we right now, when women litigate cases on the basis of sex of your discriminated against because of your sex you go all the way to the supreme court. And the, the scrutiny is what's called the level of scrutiny that gender receives under the current interpretation of the US constitution is a much lower form of scrutiny. That really just means it's easier to pass in keep sexist laws on the books, I always try to work in a bipartisan way every year that I've been produced the rights minute for twelve different congresses of always had a Republican sponsors, not enough, you need more. But it's a deeply divided. It's a very the Republican is very anti woman. They wanna keep women down and back, quite frankly. I don't understand it. How in the world can we compete in the world economy? If we don't have the best talents of all of our people competing with others around the world. And but I was little all you needed was a was a pencil. Now you have to have your computer and your competing with everybody in the world. So it's, it's a whole changed. It's going to happen. Let's go over some of the arguments against the rights amendment. 'cause there are many, there's the religious opposition. Let's talk about that. Yeah, I think a lot of times for a lot of, you know, I work on all different kinds of issues child marriage in the US female genital mutilation, sexual assault, constitutional equality in a lot of this opposition comes up from really traditional conservative groups, and religious groups and some of that opposition is fear that their beliefs or their way of life will somehow be impeded by by the introduction of equal rights. I understand that fear as a person who was raised very religious and continues to have a robust spiritual life. I understand that fear. And I think that's part of the reason it's so salient, or powerful is that people genuinely believe that they are going to be prevented from. From religious practice, but that is, you know, religious exemptions exist almost every level in federal law, religious groups aren't, you know, forced to hire people. They don't wanna hire, they're not forced to comply in many places. They're not forced to comply with discrimination laws. You know, there are exceptions in many cases for religions and freedom of religion is very, very bare. He may be some would say, overly and robustly protected in the United States. So I understand the fear, and where that comes from, but I don't think that religious organizations would lose their ability to practice as they believe, and, and some would also argue religious organizations, should not be free to discriminate. And, and so. Ally. Understand those concerns. I don't think that they are they're not going to materialize. Once again, our values are under attack by this proposed legislation despite crimes of protecting women's interests. E R A will actually end up hurting women, and it would force equal representation of women in all military roles regardless of their abilities, if passed a future war would require women to be drafted just as men. It's concerning to me that the ER a treats women identically to men, not equally to men lending to it the current sad of Trent on gender fluidity. And I think that's a real concern. The Senate cold unisex amendment. They said it would destroy traditional man, woman, relationships, weaken, family ties, increase homosexuality file a biblical teachings and undermine thousands of state laws designed to protect women against life's hazards, Mississippi, Johnston said women would have to put on combat boots March off to fight wars just like men, North Carolina. Sam Irvin said women would be slaughtered and Maine by bombs and bullets just like men. I just wanna go through some of the other opposition points. So just to give you a chance to tell our listeners why there is no reason to worry about any of these points. The military yeah, I think another this is another argument that came up a lot in the original fight for your a, so a lot of the scare tactics, they were using again. They're very salient like they were telling women like if we ratify the equal rights amendment, you are going to be thrust onto the frontlines of battle. If we ratify the equal rights amendment, there are going to be rapists hiding in public bathrooms ready to prey on you like if we ratify the eagle rides amendment, you are not going to be able to practice your religion as you believe. So all of these arguments scare tactics are actually very you know, if you're a vulnerable person if you're vulnerable woman than these have a lot of sway. And so I think the military the combat. Argument. It's sort of a rises still. But I mean as we know women serve in all combat roles already, and it, actually, in World War, Two that women were about to be drafted as nurses in the last days of World War, Two twenty sixteen. The Senate in fact, it was John McCain, who was arguing for this Bill. And he essentially said, you know, women already served with great distinction in all aspect of armed forces. And he said, and so they passed a Bill in the Senate that women be required to register with selective service and in October twenty seventeen. The Pentagon recommended that women register for selective service and then just this year federal judge held that essentially the male only draft would be unconstitutional, even under the fourteenth amendment. So we don't even need that you are a courts are already saying that a, you know, a gender segregated selective service is unconstitutional. And so regardless of ratification. Vacation of equal rights amendment are reinstated draft will likely include everyone not just men now there. There is a, a long debate to be had about whether or not, we should have a draft or whether or not, you know, the military industrial complex etcetera etcetera. I'm just saying, regardless of how you feel about the military is centrally. It has already been decided that, that you cannot exclude women from the draft, if it were to be reinstated. So that argument is really moved. Many would be surprised to know that it's recent as nineteen ninety six women were not able to a tin, any and all colleges that they wanted to in the Kama wolf Virginia. I realize this fact when I was sitting in my high school classroom, and I was in my juror TC class, one of the only women in that class, and we were watching the Virginia Military institute decision on TV it was in that moment that I realized that Virginia Military institute, one of the top military colleges in the United States. One of the only institutes of higher learning that has the highest dropout rate of any college in the country, and that is not by accident. But by design had spent millions of dollars to keep women out of its doors. And in their class. Many of my fellow classmates mostly male had justification such as well. It's a well known fact that women are biologically inferior to men physically and intellectually, and that was not the place for a woman to be. And it was in that moment that I remember hearing Justice, Ginsburg, say, and I'm paraphrasing that women can do all things if given the opportunity. And I stood up and proclaimed that, that was fact and that I was just as powerful and capable and smart as any man in that room. And all of the men got up and protested. In my best friend who was going to go to West Point. He walked up to me, and he said, I'm going to go to VMI with you, because I want to be there to watch you. When you fail. And that was his truth. That's what he believed. And so he went to a my with me, along with another male cadet, and when they got their head shaved bald. So did I. When they put on a man's uniform, I put on a man's uniform, and I'm marched and sweat, and bled beside the hundreds of other male cadets. I stand before you now to say that I am proud that out of the other two male cadets to go that I am the only one to walk across Virginia. Military institute stage on. And so when people ask me, why am I hearing, the equal rights amendment? That is why I understand, sexist Grenadian. It's all too familiar to me. Amendment was written, so long ago almost one hundred years ago and was modeled after the nineteenth amendment. And so it simply says, on the basis of sex on the basis of sex doesn't mean now what it meant then. And so in a really positive way, I think the equal rights amendment is broad enough as currently written to cover not only women, but all marginalized genders, and also I think there's a very good argument that it can cover discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. So there's been a lot of different supreme are sorry district court and appellate court cases, that have found that the discrimination on the basis of gender identity, and the discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, are covered under the definition of sex on the basis of sex, there's essentially a split in the circuits. That's what that's what it called when basically different regions of the country, disagree about how law is going to be interpreted. So, for example. In the eleventh circuit, which is based in Atlanta. They said that laws do not that these laws, do not protect sex discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. And then other circuits have said that they do, and then in the six circuit, which is based in Cincinnati. They said that transgender people are protected, but other circuits have said that they don't so the court system that we have is very, I guess, diverse and regional, and so different courts decide issues, different ways, and then it would go all the way to the supreme court and the supreme court decides okay, if there's a split in these different circuits, how is how is this going to be interpreted ones? This premium court decides, then the question is essentially over, and then all of the different circuits must interpret based on the supreme court precedent. So it's very important, what they decide coming up, but I think there's a really robust argument and many of the lower courts have said, yes, of course gender. If someone is, is discriminating against a transgender person, of course, this is discrimination on the basis of sex, and should very clearly be covered under our constitution. And then, of course, if the if the court decision comes out as either neutral or positive for us that being people who support equality than I think that will have a lot of implication for how this phrase on the basis of sex will be interpreted, once we have the eagle rights moment, and whether or not that will include transgender people. I think it's, it's pretty clear that that's the trend of where the courts are going. And I really really hope for a positive outcome in these upcoming three cases. But yes, I think that because again, it's this neutral, phrase on the basis of sex that it can include not just women. But all marginalized genders. While the constitution says nothing about deadlines. For amendments congress put a deadline on the equal rights amendment when it was passed in nineteen seventy two I am here to appeal to you to remove the nineteen eighty-two deadline placed on congress for the ratification of the just because we women didn't achieve fully quality in America by nineteen seventy eight or by nineteen eighty two doesn't mean they shouldn't have it today. There's a groundswell in this country women are being elected in record numbers. Women are rising up by the millions and saying, they will not be sexually assaulted. They will not be paid less. They will not be treated as subhuman, and they will have their voices heard some people think women do have constitutional protections because of the fourteenth amendment. But one asked about this supreme court Justice, Antonin Scalia said, certainly the constitution doesn't require discrimination on the basis of sex. The question is whether it. Prohibits, it, it doesn't. So a recent supreme court Justice interpreted the constitution as saying it did not prohibit discrimination on the basis of sets, so whether you agree with them or not the factor. Maine's this is how recent supreme court Justice interpreted women's rights in our constitution. And this is why we need to amend the constitution and leave no room to question. If women have full constitutional equality because women's protections cannot be left to interpretation alone. People accused the left of being very scattered and long. No long-term vision. No plan. What is it concretely that we want for the women's movement? The equal rights amendment has to be our long game. It has to be the thing that we all agree is going to put us into the constitution and is going to be the anchor from which we defend our rights for the next hundred years. That's our long game. Okay. Can you just explain to everybody? What the process is moving forward in the time line. Like what, what happens next? What happens next is we have two bills before congressman right now, one is Jackie speier's, which removes the time limit congress put in a time limit that time limit expired. But if we can put in the time limit we can remove it, and we have constitutional scholars who say that we will prevail at the supreme court. The opposition says that. That there was a time limit and therefore you have to start all over again. So I introduced a Bill that goes back and starts all over again. In other words, all of our bases are covered. We either win with the three steak solution, adding three more states and lifting the time. Limit are we go back and start all over again, which I think will be a much easier task than what the women face before us because we've already gotten thirty eight states or thirty seven states to ratify it. It would then be voted out of the out of the, the, the committee would go to the floor of congress be debated. It would pass the floor of congress, go to the Senate go through the judiciary committee, passed the Senate, go to the president for his signature and, and for removing the time limit, but we. We are. We are saying, and believing that if we just get one more state to ratify, which we believe will be Virginia then than it is ratified. And it then goes by law to the archivist of the country, he is a gentleman who was appointed by President Obama, and he could then claim and say that it it's, it's ratified, it's part of our constitution. He has decided that he's more of a functionary and appointed. So his written, the Justice department to ask them what he should do. If the ratification comes in any event, it will either be ratified, where we will claim. It's ratified it will then be sued by opposition. And in in, we'll go eventually to the supreme court. If you any institution, it has been written since nineteen fifty he will find in it. The statement that men and women are equal before, so I have three granddaughters. I'd like to be able to take out my pocket constitution and say that the equal citizenship. Stature of men and women is fundamental tenant of office side. Like free speech. The women equal rights to do. Whatever talent and hard work, enable, her to do like that, to be in constitution for me personally passing the air a means that I can tell my daughter that in the greatest document in all the world she has the same rights as anyone else. Oh, gosh. I can't think of anything Elissa that would be more meaningful to women. Children families in our country than than a passing. The rights amendment was more important if women have equal rights, they're protected. They've been so many supreme court cases that clearly state that we're not protected. An we can't enforce a a civil penalties for for rape, and many cases that have gone to the supreme court and, and a case that, just passed recently, which is outrageous, and I think shows fundamentally. How much it's needed, and how we're not protected. It would mean so much that I almost don't even have words because this country has never had any rights amendment. And so since we. We're fighting so hard. And I mean I just came too late. I came to it in two thousand twelve I like so many others was under the impression that we had already had one. And so, you know, there is this false sense of security right now with so many Americans thinking that we have one. So to me, it would just mean that moving forward women in this country, wouldn't necessarily have to go through what we're going through right now, when, when the Brett cavenaugh hearings were happening. I know that I and so many other women in this country were triggered and felt scared an upset. And I'm experiencing those same feelings right now, watching all of these antiabortion ban, antiabortion laws and the abortion bans, and, and these ridiculous laws that are not based on any fact at all. And so I think that understanding that there's going to be protection for future. Generations would just be all the everything I need, you know, I don't have children. But I, I have a sister and I have a niece and I. I have there are millions of women, this country that were there were let me just put it this way. There were a lot of women in the second wave who fought very hard, just like with Ellis, Paul in the first way all these women fought so hard so that you and I can have certain rights, and we could have the right to vote. And so for me, it would be meaningful that I've played a very small part in the rights movement education. It would personally be satisfying for me. But it would give me that satisfaction to know that women in the future. Generations are going to have protection that they don't necessarily have to deal with this crazy kind of atmosphere, where we're, we're, we're watching a, a man who was accused of rape going to supreme court when we're watching lawmakers. Right. All these bills that are anti women that they're passing because I was raised in such a conservative culture, and I never really saw women and men, being equal. I saw women having secondary roles I saw women being more than it. Two men. I saw women, you know, having what they call separate, but equal tasks and jobs and purpose in life. And so for me the equal rights amendment means in my own constitution, it is very clearly stated that I am equal to any other person. I am equal to any other American end so bats important from me and from a legal perspective. It creates an entirely new avenue for us to litigated for our rights for all of these incredible congresswomen, who are going are creating sees of change in our in our system. It creates an a totally new avenue from which they can pass laws to protect us. So for me the way I describe it as the equal rights amendment is, if you find a bottle, there's a genie in it, and the genie comes out, you wanna wish for women's rights, but this is basically the equal rights amendment is the equival. To wishing for thousand new wishes it's the go around is the way to say, this is what we want because from this, we can build the scaffolding to protect all of us. To me passing the air eight would mean that all people will be treated, equal at home. All people will be treated, equal in their workplace and all people will be treated equal under the United States constitution because everyone deserves to be treated equally passing of the euro would mean there is no place for gender discrimination in the United States constitution. For me, it means three things. Number one, the hope and optimism that a country based on liberty and freedom to inch closer to that promise, number two, as an American of African ancestry, one step forward for our sisters is one giant leap for all of us. And number three, that my pre civil rights mom, who went through a bunch of stuff to get her PHD and get paid respectively. Can rest in peace. A little more peacefully. Congresswoman what, what can my listeners do to help move this forward? Is there a call to action? I, I would say we have two bills in congress. Now they should ask their members of congress to cosponsor them that gives more weight, and their senators to cosponsor them, both bills are sponsored by Menendez. My Bill sponsored by Menendez in the Senate, and Ben Cardin is carrying a Jackie speier's, but we need to get the co-sponsors. We need to move it forward and expressing their support for it to the speaker, and the minority leader of the house. The first thing we have to do is get it through the house and the Senate. But I feel that the, the energy is there that women are more energized than than we've been in generation. Nhs than we're marching protesting running for office, and more importantly of getting elected, and we're on the verge absolutely on the verge of ratifying the rights movement. My name is. Alissa. Milano. I do not have equal rights under our constitution. I have a four year old daughter named Bella. She does not have equal rights under our constitution. If my daughter, and I lived in Iceland, or Wanda, or Vietnam, we would have equal rights, under their constitutions. But we live in the United States of America, where we do not have equal rights under our own that is because for all of our country's history. It has considered people like us that is to say, people who are not white men to be second class citizens, our country has allowed those men to use our founding documents to preserve their power and privilege, while denying women protection from the consequences because again, in the United States of America, in the year, two thousand nineteen women do not have equal rights wouldn't. Agree. That's absurd. Most people don't even realize that this country which claims to be the greatest country in the world, and this document which claims to guarantee quality to all who live here, does not extend that guarantee to women. According to polls conducted by the ER a coalition eighty percent of Americans think that women already have equal rights under the constitution. They assume that provision has already there, because of course it's absurd for it not to be what's more. They think it's there because they think it should be the same polls. Tell us that ninety four percent of Americans support constitutional equality for women. My question is, who are the other six percent and to be clear that question is not a rhetorical one the text of the amendment, we propose raids. Women shall have equal rights in the United States and every place subject to its jurisdiction equality of rights under the law, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of sex. If you don't agree with those words, if you do not believe that women should have equal rights. I wanna know who you are. I think we all deserve to know who you are. We deserve to know who you are so that we can make the choice not to do business with you or work for you or entrust, our children to you or cast our votes for you. Listen, we are human beings fully deserving of equal protections. Equal opportunities and equal. Oh rights. And I believe we have finally gotten the message across when we are treated as anything less. We deserve equal recourse. We have waited hundreds of years for this moment. But if we want to ensure it is a beginning, not an end, we need to use it to launch a new era for the equal rights amendment by enshrining are equal rights in the United States constitution, the ERA would guarantee women are protected by the full force of federal law, bypassing an equal rights amendment. It would for the first time in our country's history open a pathway toward true, gender equality. The ER a would set a norm for equal pay for equal work. So that women can be full economic actors in our society. It would protect pregnant women from discrimination, so that we do not have to make. The impossible choice between earning a paycheck and having a family between making a living and living in our own bodies. It would require states to enforce laws against gender violence. So that police can no longer turn their backs on women like Jessica Lenihan or girls like her daughters whose deaths were preventable, and who's heartbreaking story reminds us of the cost of our inaction. For all of these reasons for all of these women for Jessica's daughters for all of our daughters. We cannot afford to wait any longer ratifying, the ERA would be a statement of principle. It would send a message to our daughters. It would send a message to our son's, it would send a message to every state in the country, and it would send a message to the world, these rights our our birthright but enshrining them in the constitution is our responsibility. That's because in a democracy, progress doesn't happen, automatically democracy requires action by us because at the end of the day, it is. Us. In seventeen seventy six year our country declared independence, Abigail Adams wrote to her husband, John urging him to when member ladies to be fair to us as he helped write the new code of laws for a new nation today, two hundred forty two years later, we no longer have to wait for anyone else to grant us our rights, we are standing up for each other. We are marching in streets. We are the ones holding the pen you and I are lucky that we get to be the ones to live through this new era. But with that comes responsibility to ensure this moment lives up to its promise. My name is Alissa Milano, and I do not have equal rights under our country's constitution. And I'm part of a movement, that's not going anywhere until the foundational document of our country. Insists loudly and clearly to us and to the world that women shall have equal rights in the United States and every place subject to its jurisdiction, and until we are promised once and for all that equality of rights under the law, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of sex. Do you think that you deserve the same protection as little boys? Right. Are you are girls and boys? Equal. Yes. That's right. I would even say that you are faster than most of the boys on your baseball team. You're pretty fast. You can do anything you make me proud. Sorry, not sorry as -secutive produced by sim Sar. Not a Milano. That's me, our supervising producer is Ellison bresnik. It's edited by Josh Windisch, our production, associate is Danielle Silva music by Josh Cooke, and Alicia equal, please describe on apple podcasts Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. And if you like the show, please rate, review and spread the word, sorry, not sorry.