3 Burst results for "Peter Gosling"
"peter gosling" Discussed on Here & Now
"That. What kind of world because one of the things that means is that you can't depend on the employer so you're gonna have to depend on government programs to give people the tide me over to get between one gig jig and the next gig and i don't think we're ready to do that. Well you remind us of the other thing that happens when again we're not talking about the elderly when forty fifty year olds <unk> are laid off that's exactly when they are putting kids through college and exactly when they need that income the most and exactly when they're saving for what they're now told is their responsibility which is to finance their own retirements and refinance retirements that are much longer because we're living longer <hes> so i think one of the most tragic things we found in the story is that people just went zooming through their retirement savings <hes> to just try to keep the kids in college and them with food and a a roof over their head. Peter gosling contributing reporter at propublica senior fellow at hunter college is brookdale center on aging peter. Thank you so much thank you and we asked ibm for a statement they told us i._b._m. Makes its employment decisions based on skills not age and invest in skills and retraining to make all of a successful in this new era of technology so thoughts. Have you seen hey discrimination. Firsthand may be legal but do you think it's fair. In february twenty seventeen seventeen the american meteor society got hundreds of reports from people across illinois and wisconsin of a green streak blazing across the sky. It was a meteorite right careening into lake michigan and ever since scientists have been looking for its remains in the bottom of lake. One of them is mark hammerton. Astronomer at chicago's adler planetarium chief scientists on the aquarius project emission defined this meteorite mark. Why are you looking for this. Meteorite in particular will meteorites number number. One in general are scientifically interesting. They contain remnants of the formation of our solar system. We can't get that information anywhere else so in general they're interesting this one in particular we have video out of evidence from several different angles which allowed me to reconstruct the orbit orbit of this meteorite. That's only been done for a couple dozen meteorites. Do you have any sense of how big it would be. If you were to find it well all the pieces are probably very small and larger pieces. Maybe the size of a fist will be scattered few and far between so really really focusing on finding the smaller pieces uses piece is maybe penny size in the bottom of lake michigan in the bottom of lake michigan two hundred feet down. How in the world do you <unk> even think about doing that well. At first we thought maybe we could send down remotely operated vehicle. You know something with cameras and go hunt around but you know running through the numbers. Even the small pieces are going to be scattered very far apart so that didn't sound like a good option and then we just kinda started brainstorming and thought well i'm he we could send down a magnetic sled the vast majority of meteorites contain little bits of iron and so they respond to magnets so that's how the idea of the aquarius project meteorites led was born. What are you hoping to learn once you find it if you find it well. There are a couple of different things number. One is just studying how meteorites weather underwater and just proving the concept that this is a way to recover meteorites world is covered with you know three quarters of its surface with oceans so if we can find meteorites underwater then that opens up a new realm of discovery and regardless of whether you find pieces of this meteorite under lake michigan you also are hoping to learn a little bit about the lake because we actually know surprisingly little about the bottom of lake michigan yeah it was that was a big surprise to us..
"peter gosling" Discussed on Here & Now
"Own labeling of them as competent wasn't any protection. I'm going to also add that. One of your findings was that older older employees who were being laid off and told that their skills were out of date within almost immediately brought back as contract workers for lower pay. That's right and look the other thing had to say about this is there are ways to <hes> change your workforce. They may be a little slower than <hes> mass layoff <hes> but they are fair and <hes> as is my co author arianna tobin said in another context. Here's the thing about age. It happens to all of us and so that the person who's thirty or thirty five and saying hey. That's not me that as you said before. It's not you've now but it is you in ten years or five years so you should be interested in fairness here because it's going to come back to bite you if you're not wouldn't i._b._m. Say about these accusations. They say they're very proud of their record of diversity and inclusion and in fact i._b._m. Has a long history of particularly on rays of being liberal and being progressive. What's amazing about this is is that if you look at it the one thing that's left out his age <hes> and look robin. Can i just say one other thing about this. You could think that i._b._m. Was a one off but one of the other projects we tackled was to ask the question why i._b._m. One off or is this widespread and there's really strong long evidence that ages commission dumping out fifty year old. There's an older <hes> is very widespread in the american labor market today and the companies. Maybe maybe saying it's because they want fresher thinking they want more and more there. They may be saying more technologically adept people but is it. What about money. Yes look critique against older. People goes something like this. We cost more because of healthcare and were cognitively diminished diminished. There's something to the fact of people cost more of because of healthcare by the way so do women in their thirties who are having children and we would wouldn't want policy that says if you get pregnant you get dumped and as for cognitive <hes> diminishment. I just think we're working with very very old. Notions of what cognitive ability is we're leaving something like thirty years longer than we were. Generation are generated two generations ago. Oh and we are leaving healthy for thirty years longer and so the critique is old. This is personal for you. You were laid off a few years back. It was a startup. Just your personal understanding of what happens. Well look. This is personal to me. I was laid off. I'm a single father of twins ends and i was laid off in the very week. They started college and i thought i'd be out for a couple of weeks. A couple of months. I was out fifteen months which did nothing in pretty to our finances. The perspective of being both older and laid off and having kids were twenty two and just starting out in the labor market and facing using a world a decade of internships and one year contract gigs is that you get a perspective of what's happening at both ends of the age age spectrum in this united states labor market and what you're watching the fraying of the employer employee relationship which we've counted on to keep the society together certainly during the postwar period well h- just real brief peter gosling i mean is this a time that has passed. I mean one of the things you right about. Propublica is all the ibm are said to you this we were in for life. This is what we thought but is that a delusion. Now i mean that's just not the way the workforce works anymore. It's not the way the workforce works right now. As a society we have to ask if we wanna have this other other different way of <hes> of working where it is all a transactional. It is all temporary. It's all side hustles and i. I think that the answer is if we really imagined what it would be like to have that kind of world. We wouldn't want that kind of world and we wouldn't afford that..
"peter gosling" Discussed on KQED Radio
"Suffering from chronic illness. My mother is now in fear of losing her job, which he so dearly love and enjoy as well as the roof over her head down seven and a half years ago. I haven't worked that day. I asked Richard Johnson of the urban institute to take us through the data and explain what's actually legal when it comes to ageism in the workplace what we know is that age discrimination is illegal and the difficult to prove. And that's really the problem. And in fact, in two thousand nine the supreme court made it harder to prove because as a court said about ten years ago that you can only prove discrimination. If you can show that age is the only clause for you being laid off for you not being hired for your wages being cut. And that's that's really difficult bar to meet. And so, you know, it's just something that employers can always point to some other reason. Well, that's really not now why this person was laid off their other factors play. And so we see that there are a lot of claims against discrimination and the EEOC complaint Opportunity Commission, part of hill government that enforces these discrimination laws makes an effort, but it's just it's just really tough. So let's talk a little bit about how what we're seeing today compares to pass workforce trans have older workers. I e workers over forty always had to be this worried about their job security, or is this something that we're seeing increasingly across the board. I mean, it really does seem to be a trend suggesting that things are getting worse. You know, the one thing we noticed during the great recession was there was a big spike in unemployment rates for people sixty five and older. We didn't see that back in the early eighties. When employment also spiked overall employment rates increased in the early one thousand nine hundred one thousand nine hundred and we had a big recession but not for. Older workers. So this is something new, and if that when we looked at people over time in this study, we did comparing responses in one thousand nine hundred ninety eight and two thousand fourteen we found that the share of workers recent retirees who said that they have been forced or partly forced into retirement increased by twenty two percent from thirty three percent fifty five percent. So a really big increase in the sheriff workers you say, you know, I'm really not quite ready to retire. And yet, I can't find work. And I'm wondering also whether it's so hard to prove these cases because they are looking for intent to discriminate is that part of the issue here in terms of being able to prove age discrimination. Yeah. That's exactly right. So intended is an important part of it. And that's something that's different from from racist cremation, and let's say sex discrimination in employment, you really have to show intent, and as I said earlier, that's that's so hard to prove wondering why it's so hard because the research that you have shows that this is actually a problem we've seen other research from pro public. That also shows for example, I'm thinking of an IBM a report that came out that showed systemic push outs of older employees. So with all of this data. Why is it still so difficult? One thing we've we've found is class action suits are harder to to organize now. Employers can have these employment agreements, which workers aren't even aware of which say, you can't be part of a class action suit to show intent you really need to show that this is a broad base problem. That's not just a one one off. It's not just this one person who is being injured and to get those people together, and it is really hard. And in fact, the bigger problem too is not as being laid off. It's also being hired. And it's very difficult to prove that the employer is not hiring you because of your age because you don't know who else is being interviewed who else who's being hired at least when you being laid off. You can look at the other people in the firm who lost their jobs and say, gee, now, they're all over fifty or sixty and certainly the reporting that my colleague Peter Gosling at propublica did finds a lot of the cases that he looked at. Many people are saying that everyone who was laid off at their firm with them world. Or folks, I'm wondering if you can give us a little bit more of an example of how this plays out in real life. Because part of the research was looking at individual stories is that right? That's right. So we both looked at nationally Representative household survey data, which looks at thousands of people have overall trains overall numbers really how widespread is. But then we dug into individual stories, and one of the more compelling cases was a man by name of Tom Steckel. Who is now the director of employee benefits for South Dakota. He sixty two years old. He's had this job for a few years now, but he was originally laid off at age fifty one he'd been with a shipping company for twenty seven years. He worked his way up he was in human resources. He then went to three other jobs laid off from each of those initial layoff. He was out of work for eight months. He finally found this job in in South Dakota, promise, he lives in Wisconsin. So he has a seven hundred mile drive, which he does once a month. You know, he's able to to live with his family as a result. And he's only making sixty percent of what he made when he was age of fifty one. So that countless stories like this people who were. We're working toward retirement. They had a secure job. They thought they could hold it until they were age retire. And then the rug was pulled out from underneath him in their fifty s. When you're on explicitly laid off and Richard. What's something that we can do to make the workplace better for older workers at this point? Things the just trying to convince employers of the the value that older workers have. And that's something that groups like AARP of working on for years. Another thing is maybe some public policy changes, we can make certainly stronger enforcement of age discrimination laws, but also changing the law to make it easier to prove Asia's criminalization and to hold employers accountable. I think that's important. We could also think about maybe some better workforce development programs so training programs specifically geared to older workers. The federal government could have just help older workers. Find jobs, you know, the job. Search has changed so much over the past twenty years older people who haven't searched for jobs for twenty thirty years could have been a bit of a disadvantage in terms of finding a new job because the process change. So so more training in terms of actually help older folks, Richard Johnson is an economist with the urban institute, Richard thanks so much for your time. And for.