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The controversy surrounding 'Green Book' just keeps growing
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Aired 2 months ago 34:46
The 1A Movie Club Sees 'Green Book'
There have been a lot of fish-out-of-water buddy comedies at the movies over the years. But never quite like this. Director Peter Farrelly takes on a true story with his latest film, "Green Book."Is it a feel-good movie? Or yet another example of a black man's story being sacrificed to make a white man a hero?Want to support 1A? Give to your local public radio station and subscribe to our podcast. Have questions? Find us on Twitter @1a.
Aired 2 months ago 51:28
Fantastic Beasts 2, Widows - Movie Review Talk with Scott Mantz
Welcome to the latest episode of Movie Review Talk with Scott Mantz! On this episode, Scott, KJ Matthews, William Bibbiani, and Perri Nemiroff discussing four new releases – Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald, Widows, Instant Family and Green Book. The critics also give their thoughts on Outlaw King starring Chris Pine and streaming on Netflix. Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald sees the return of Eddie Redmayne of, Katherine Waterston, Alison Sudol, Dan Fogler, Ezra Miller and Zoe Kravitz . The film also sees Jude Law entering the franchise as a young Albus Dumbledore and Johnny Depp returning as the villainous Gellert Grindelwald. At the end of the first film, the powerful Dark wizard Gellert Grindelwald was captured by MACUSA (Magical Congress of the United States of America), with the help of Newt Scamander. But, making good on his threat, Grindelwald escaped custody and has set about gathering followers, most unsuspecting of his true agenda: to raise pure-blood wizards up to rule over all non-magical beings. Widows from Academy Award-winning director Steve McQueen and co-writer and bestselling author Gillian Flynn comes a blistering, modern-day thriller set against the backdrop of crime, passion and corruption. It is the story of four women with nothing in common except a debt left behind by their dead husbands’ criminal activities. Set in contemporary Chicago, amid a time of turmoil, tensions build when Veronica, Linda, Alice and Belle take their fate into their own hands and conspire to forge a future on their own terms. It stars Viola Davis, Michelle Rodriguez, Elizabeth Debicki, Cynthia Erivo, Liam Neeson, Colin Farrell, Robert Duvall, Daniel Kaluuya, Lukas Haas and Brian Tyree Henry. Paramount Pictures Instant Family was written and directed by Daddy’s Home director Sean Anders who based the script on events from his own life. The film stars Mark Wahlberg, Rose Byrne and Isabela Moner in this adopted family comedy. When Pete (Wahlberg) and Ellie (Byrne) decide to start a family, they stumble into the world of foster care adoption. They hope to take in one small child but when they meet three siblings, including a rebellious 15-year-old girl (Moner), they find themselves speeding from zero to three kids overnight. Now, Pete and Ellie must hilariously try to learn the ropes of instant parenthood in the hopes of becoming a family. The film also stars Octavia Spencer, Tig Notaro and Margo Martindale. Viggo Mortenson and Mahershala Ali star in Green Book, a film directed by Peter Farrelly and receiving some very strong Oscar buzz. The film is inspired by a true friendship that transcended race, class and the 1962 Mason-Dixon line. When Tony Lip (Mortensen), a bouncer from an Italian-American neighborhood in the Bronx, is hired to drive Dr. Don Shirley (Ali), a world-class Black pianist, on a concert tour from Manhattan to the Deep South, they must rely on “The Green Book” to guide them to the few establishments that were then safe for African-Americans. Confronted with racism, danger—as well as unexpected humanity and humor—they are forced to set aside differences to survive and thrive on the journey of a lifetime. Outlaw King streaming on Netflix reunites director David Mackenzie (Hell or High Water) with star Chris Pine alongside Aaron Taylor-Johnson, Florence Pugh and Billy Howle. It’s the untold, true story of Robert the Bruce who transforms from defeated nobleman to outlaw hero during the oppressive occupation of medieval Scotland by Edward I of England. Despite grave consequences, Robert seizes the Scottish crown and rallies an impassioned group of men to fight back against the mighty army of the tyrannical King and his volatile son, the Prince of Wales. Follow Scott: https://twitter.com/MovieMantz Follow Perri: https://twitter.com/PNemiroff Follow KJ Matthews: https://twitter.com/KJMatthewstv Follow...
Collider Movie Talk
Aired 5 d ago 48:18
What Does 'Best Picture' Even Mean? | The Oscars Show (Ep. 117)
Hey, it's Kelly and welcome to the ringer podcast network. True detective is back and the ringers Chris Ryan and Jason Concepcion are guides as you navigate the twisting pathways of season, three's plots themes and characters on the flat circle a true detective after show follow Jason. And Chris as chase down leads explore each episode's, cultural context and discussed true crime cases that mirror the ones in the show. Join the guys live every Sunday night after true detective on the ringers YouTube, Twitter and Facebook pages. I'm Shawn fantasy. And this is the big picture a conversation show about the Oscars. Amanda, we're going to jump right into the big picture. Big picture this week. Problem in the big picture. Do you know what I mean? We are less than six weeks away from Oscar night, and we are doing a new episode to talk about every other award that is happening in the known award season universe right now, they're coming fast and furious last night, we saw the critics choice awards. Let me ask you a question. Have you ever watched the critics choice awards? Rule it out, but I don't have a specific memory. Okay. Okay. On TNT for awhile. I believe it was on the CW last night. Yes. But I think before that I don't know sometimes you pick up an award show from time to time. Jess, you think it up like you would pick up a common cold you carry it with you for a few days here. We are carrying with us on this show this morning. The critics choice awards I don't even fully understand. I haven't honestly investigated. It is obviously a relevant because all of the major figures were there and were receiving awards. And you know, it's interesting because I noted this on Twitter last night last year, sixteen of eighteen major film categories, matched the winners of those categories matched with the Oscars. And so there is some credence to this. There is some maybe some usefulness to this award show, even though I don't really care to watch it. Yeah. I think we should talk a little bit about last year and also two thousand and sixteen seventeen with two years ago. Versus this one. I did you bit of research into the critics choice awards last night. I was just curious. It's apparently decided by two hundred fifty members of the broadcast film critics association. I think I got that. Right. Anyway, why are we not in that group? We are broadcasters talking about film. He knew I was going to see the awards columnists for both the Hollywood reporter and variety are part of the this organization and apparently voted maybe we should be stumping. Yeah. And it otherwise it's mostly kind of local critics and people on radio and local news stations as best. I understood, but there are some general there are few names, I recognized in terms of people who do some sort of journalism about the movies that are being awarded. Okay. Then let me make an addendum. Yes. Critics choice awards is the only award show that matters. That you and I be a part of it in twenty twenty. I mostly just wanted to distinguish from the Golden Globes, which is done by a bunch of people who make up interviews got it. So anyway, I that said I don't really remember it being a huge deal in the Oscar build up before the last couple of years doesn't has never been cited as a bellwether of any kind as interesting to kind of compare and contrast what did you want to note about sixteen seventeen? Well, you know, and this is maybe a more overarching theory, which we've talked about it before. But I think it is important to compare to the winners of all the guilds last year. And that's obviously instructive especially as the makeup of the academy changes every year. I don't think you can go too far back, but I do really feel like this is a little bit of a LA La Land moonlight. I don't think that's a direct comparison. But kind of have you split the splits between comedy and drama and just kind of a lot of the different ways that people are thinking about the movies. It seems like some of those narratives graft onto this year a little bit more than say last year where. Everything was kind of locked at this point in the award season. Yeah. It'll be interesting. I mean, a lot of the acting awards last night, we're very similar to the acting wards at the Globes and last year, you're right, there was this major air of inevitability, particularly around director in the acting awards know, Gary Oldman Francis McDormand Sam Rockwell Allison Janney. We saw them over and over and over again last year, and this year, a kind is starting to feel like Marshall Ali, Regina, king, Christian bale. You know, we're and then now, of course, the most ridiculous aspect of the critics choice awards last night was Glenn Close tying with lady. Gaga men. Have you seen the movie the wife, I have not yet seen way nor nor have I did receive a number of text messages from my father last night. Asking me what the wife was. And then confessing that he thought it was a TV show. So that's where we are very well could be. Yeah. I haven't seen it. Maybe we'll see the wife at some point in the future. Nevertheless, Glenn Close in lady got got tied last night, which y y even have an award show. What are we doing? I mean, I agree. In why even having a fake alward show? Also, do you think that that means that if there were two hundred and fifty members and that it was one twenty five one twenty five or does that mean that there were like they were scattered all throughout the category. And then it just happened to be like seventy two seventy two. I think it's the latter. You know, I have to assume that were some Livia Coleman votes in there. And now I'm wondering whether these two are going to cancel each other out and then Libya Coleman wins at the Oscars. That's my new galaxy brain theory that could happen. We'll have to we'll have to keep a close watch. And we'll have to eventually watch them life to know for sure what we think is going to happen there is there anything else that happened to the critics choice awards. It was notable to you or interesting. Even though I assume you didn't actually watch it in full new. I didn't but Roma winning both best picture and best director was notable. If only because as we said at the end of our last podcast Roman has not in the conversation. We didn't talk about it at all until the very end because it was not eligible for either of the best picture awards at the Golden Globes. And it has been a bit quiet so Roma. One all of the critics association or critics board awards at the end of last year. But this is it's I kinda glitzy award show big win. Yes. And I think that that is of note it is it's going to be very interesting to see how that plays. Because obviously a critical body is significantly different from the academy. Sometimes it in it influences, it sometimes it informs it. Sometimes it does not I suspect will be talking about Romo a lot more in the future. Let's talk a little bit about the guild nominations. I think all of which are out in the world. And some of this includes of the smaller guilds like editors and Tigers. But we're going to focus primarily on the big ones, which are the producers guild the directors guild the writers guild in the Baptist, which is sort of the British Oscars. You know, the PGA's the producers guild is always a very interesting group of nominees. It usually gets pretty close to what the best picture nominees are going to be that these awards are given up pretty soon January eighteenth, and let's just go quickly through the nominations. Okay. So this. For the the Daryl zanuck award for outstanding producer of theatrical motion pictures, Black Panther, black klansman bohemian, rhapsody, crazy rich, Asians, the favorite green book, a quiet place Roma a star is born and vice you you noted I think a couple of weeks ago that this particularly tends to highlight successful films, which I think explains why crazy rotations and a quiet place, or they're movies that I don't think are ultimately going to make it to the big show. But do you think that a producers guild, which does you know has some ha has a reasonable amount of crossover with best picture winners? Do you think that will be signal some sort of like moment, momentous bellwether? I think it depends on what if bohemian rhapsody Wednesday, the producers go, then we're in trouble crazy town. And I think that that's in the realm of possibility because again bohemian rhapsody is just a tremendous success. It has made a ton of money. And I think as you've noted people really the producer of bohemian rhapsody is really loved. Within is loved within the circle. So people do like to boat for their friends and people like to vote for a people they wanna see succeed. So in that sense if human rhapsody ones, we're in trouble. I think if green book wins were in trouble because that suggests that many of the green book controversies, which we're going to discuss later on and I is my summary. But that's suggests that people are not paying a ton of attention to them. Yes. Do again devoting PA probably happened before the latest round of nightmares. So I don't think it's a total total referendum. But you know, it's not great. We don't want to see that outcome shortly after the the producers guild awards, we'll have the directors guild. There's this February second here the nominees for that award. Bradley Cooper, Alfonso Koran. Peter Farrelly, Spike Lee and Adam McKay, no women as usual, and you know, the DIGI is. The most likely to sort of indicate not only the best picture, not only the best director winner at the Oscars. But the best picture winner. I'm very very very interested to see what happens here. I think if Cuaron wins this award, they're going to the mountaintop. And if he does not then I'm I won't really have much of a sense at all what's going to happen. I don't think Peter fairly can win this award. If he does strap it on in much the same way that we need to kind of strap it on if bohemian rhapsody wins the PG as than then it means we're in upside down a little bit. You know, these these bodies are interesting because there are just much smaller. They're much smaller groups, I want to talk a little bit about the WG as I attended a WG a screening and moderated a conversation with Ryan Kugler and Joe Robert cold this weekend for Black Panther. And it was interesting. It was a fairly small crowd. But it was a very engaged crowd. And that's what a lot of these guild screenings are like, that's what a lot of these smaller groups, it's very similar with the foreign film, a group that ends of nominating films. These are very tightly knit groups. So we talked we think of. Eight thousand people in the academy. We don't realize that maybe only two hundred people will be voting on the nominations in certain categories and the directors guild as an is always a fascinating bellwether to me because it's still the most white and still the most male and still the oldest in many cases. And so whether Peter fairly has an opportunity to sneak in here, I don't know as you said, we'll talk a little bit more about green book, the one thing. I do want to note about these awards is that a star is born is by far the most recognized film by every craft guild. It has been identified by the editors cinematographers, the WJ the DJ the PGA all the way down the line. People think it has great songs. Great costumes as great production design. It hasn't won anything really at all. But it's not going. It's in the it's in everyone's mind, in some way is not being overlooked in any in any way aside from not winning actual awards. What do you think that means? It's a great question. I think some of it is just this idea that I think we all thought that a star is born was gonna sweep stars born was gonna win everything that was the how we started award season. And so you get into the mentality of okay? Well, a star is born we'll wind best picture. So I can nominate someone else for the directing or I cannot, you know, recognize him other performance because it'll be handled in this. And there's a lot of just responsibility shifting in terms of. Oh, I'm sure it will win everything. So I don't have to advocate for it. And I think that's certainly hampered it in every award show. We've seen this far because it doesn't want anything besides shallow. And I think also there is something to it's really well rounded movie, it does everything extremely well. And that's part of its power where it's just kinda like, oh, this is you did it you made an old Hollywood movie and it fits together. And as a result certain aspects, whether it's an amazing performance or the script or the, you know, the music. Does stand out, but beyond that people aren't really isolating it because you don't have to you can accept it wholesale. And when you divide awards up, which we do at the guilds and also in the context of the categories, I think at suffering because people aren't hanging it in specific terms. It's just a perfect package. So it's being penalized for that. Which is unfortunate. Yet reminds me of your most people movie like the social network, I feel like it was very similar in that way. Which we talk about all the time. It's kind of the one of the great overlooked best picture winners of the last ten or twenty years, which was sort of. It was a big hit in this mold sort of one hundred and fifty million dollars two hundred million dollar, mold very likable movie stars had a lot of pop moments a lot of memorable things as you know. You know, it's cool a billion dollars a sort of the shallow of this year. And it didn't win best picture. I think for the exact reason that you're talking about which is was sort of like, it's really good. You know, it's really good. And I like it. But it didn't it didn't change the mental makeup of anybody in the academy's so meaningfully and now we look back on it. And we're. Like, it's really strange that that movie didn't win best picture. I suspect we're driving towards the direction here a little bit. You know, I have a lot of feelings about what aroma win would mean. Maybe we should save them. Yeah. February twenty fourth anything else. You want to note about the gills? I mean, these things are rolling out essentially over the course of the next month and they're kind of like boring award season stuff. But also, they mean a lot for what happens at the Oscars. Can we talk about this aga- warts and the sag awards drama that is happening right now. Yes, is this is really this is great sag after which is the actors union released a statement day that I won't read all of it. But quite strong language, and they are really pissed off that the academy is trying to prevent actors from presenting at the sag awards. So that they can present at the academy and people will be excited to see them because I haven't seen them all award season. And let let me just read this one highlight. Which is we have received multiple reports of these activities and have exp. -perienced firsthand. The academy's graceless pressure tactic and attempts to control the awards show talent pipeline. Now, let me say one thing this is what unions do. Okay. So respect to that. But otherwise fam-, no, go home. This is you are just whining about a ward season presenters. This is the most accurate stuff in history, by the way, you know, that it's a bunch of people being like my spotlight. How dare they know losing. You're losing this is bad. This is quite a take. It's interesting because we've talked a lot about of plummeting ratings for the Oscars. We don't talk about the plummeting ratings for things like the sag awards. Those are on into. Yeah. Who cares? Yeah. I mean, I get it. You know, the sag awards wannabe special. Everybody wants to be special. We're hearing a podcast we wanna to be special. Amanda, you know, look at us. We have good ideas or presenting the best possible awards of the year, who cares about the Oscars are incomes. I, you know, they're not they're wrong. That's not true. Historically, the Oscars matters more calling the outskirts graceless is hilarious. Amazing. I mean, whoever wrote this you have a future in writing, it's any areas speeches. Yes. Get at us. Get at the ring. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't I don't think this really is going to matter in any in any. Meaning I just thought it was funny. And I also I would just like to say they're not divest nominations of the bunch. I believe that they overlooked Regina king. So I don't know. I don't think that you get to issue any sort of outrage statement if you didn't manage nominate two Regina king for Bill street Qatar. I think automatic disqualifier it's fascinating. I mean, maybe that means that Regina king won't win. And we won't have that. Chalk we talked about at the top of the show hard to say the zag awards are a little bit strange and always have been a little bit strange. We will be watching and talking about them which I believe is not next weekend with the following weekend. We'll have an episode shortly after that to talk about whether or not the sag awards brought any more grace than. Let's just talk very quickly about the Baptist the Baptists. As you've noted in the past are similar to the Golden Globes in that they often reflect sort of what an international body thinks of American movies. And what they think is meaningful in the world. We'll just hocus specifically I'm best film, the five nominees for best phone from the Baptist are black klansman the favourite green book Roma and a star is born. I think that these are the top five movies in the Oscar race right now vice bohemian rhapsody and a couple of other movies are kind of on the outside looking in Black Panther. I don't see a ton of new information here. I also feel like the favorite is going to win because it's the as but if something like green book wins be afraid of green book win at the Oscars. Because just because it's the Baptist. Doesn't mean. There isn't any crossover on these bodies there. Plenty of people that vote for the Baptist that also vote for the Oscars. Somebody like Gary Oldman, for instance, who has an Oscar winner also is likely to vote for the Baptist as an English citizen, or at least a former English citizen. So any any gut reactions? To these five green book in this group is playing the role of movie that explains America to an international audience black clansmen, and it's also doing that and happy see black when they are. And I hope that it wins instead of green book if Greenberg wins in this context, it is not as much of a red flag to me as say the Peter Farrelly winning the DJ just because there is that distance. Even though there is some voting overlap, you know, again, Regina king not nominated. So that's a good litmus test for me, if you can't get that in your nomination set for supporting actress than I am not really taking you seriously. And you know, we'll see next week. Whether the academy manages to get it together. I suspect they will. We will see January twenty second was when the Oscars are the Oscar nominations are going to be announced will, of course, be here immediately after that announcement for show before we move onto stock up sock down. Let's just talk very quickly about the hosting situation at the Oscars. So much has transpired since we left. Spoke. Amanda, Chris, and I talked a little bit about this on the big picture last week. But very briefly the whole Kevin Hart thing went belly up. There was a fascinating interview with him on fresh air last week. I would encourage people to check it out kind of really interesting Ted a Ted between he and Terry gross. Who thought asked very probing questions found ways to draw him out. I thought I'll actually a lot of what he had to say was interesting, and he wasn't shooting himself in the foot as many times as he had. He got actually closest I thought to the complications that so many comedians in the twenty first century or facing, which is this idea that for twenty years they've been raised to think that edginess and pushing the envelope is the core element of comedy. And that when you remove that you remove something fundamental about comedy, whether that's true or not this isn't a comedy podcast. I don't we don't have to indicate that. But I think that was kind of a fascinating end point. They got beyond the nonsense of should I have apologized. Should I host the Oscars? You know, all this stuff that, you know, we talk about and is interesting, but as ultimately frivolous, and they were getting it some bigger idea. So if you haven't listened to that I would encourage you to do. So, you know, Kevin Hart officially said he's not coming back. So may this be the last time we say the words Kevin Hart on the show. Is that fair? I'm sure it won't be okay. You know, I'm there's always the chance that he shows up at least for five minutes on the telecast, especially if they don't have a designated host. Yes. Everything that you were just talking about about comedy and change and apologies there. There are a lot of big issues and things to talk about in the Kevin Hart scandal on the other side. It is just a illustration of people just not knowing how to do basic PR, and like not knowing how to handle a situation, and there are so many times when this could have been fixed and handled so much better on both the part of Kevin Hart and the academy and no one has figured that out. So that doesn't make me hopeful for the next six weeks in terms of everyone suddenly understanding the nuances, and or just having common sense about how to handle themselves in public heart. Struck me, particularly as somebody who had been living in a bubble for ten years riding on a bullet train of success. I mean, he really his rise from stand up comedian to one of the most important actors in Hollywood was media. Yorick, and you can see the he's making a lot of money now. And he's got a lot of people working for him. And he's in total charge of his thing. And ultimately that backfired on him because you can see he was calling a lot of the shots on this stuff. Yeah. And it didn't really work out that well, it's interesting where he got to I suspect that he probably did alternately. Learn something about himself in the way to talk in the world, and how other people feel and he also probably still feels frustrated by the what he perceives as a mob mentality on social media. And elsewhere is just an interesting test case, it was a relevant moment in the history of award shows. And hopefully, we're moving a little bit past that I will note that the number one movie at the box office this weekend was the upside the Kevin Hart, Bryan, Cranston drama, and that signals to me quite clearly that even though this was a movie that was buried and made almost two years ago. They're still just a huge Kevin Hart fan base and people are not abandoning Kevin Hart in any in any way. I think that's true. And this is also something that I want to talk more about when we get to green book and. That whole mess is just to me. It also illustrates that the whole world is not on the internet, and the things that we are discussing and that we feel are so established within the world of this podcast and the internet and critics, and it's a very large group of people who feel on one page, and that is not Representative of all of America all of the world. Even all of the voters, not all of this information. Even makes it to them not everyone has a Twitter account. So I do think some of it is just there are people who knew the Kevin Hart was going to host. And then they knew that he wasn't going to host. And that's about it. I agree. The one thing that everyone has in common is that they've all seen vendors Infinity war, which is why I think the Oscars wants the vendors to assemble to host the show sort of Chris, and I talked about this a little bit last week. I suggested this in a slack channel. Yeah. It was going to say weeks ago, you did predict it maybe I should have shared it. Maybe I should have emailed. John bailey. President of the academy and say, hey, man, you've got an opportunity for tremendous center. You know, this is an ABC Disney venture Disney's most valuable property in the world is the avengers. We've got a new vendors movie coming in April, or may maybe just put all those people on stage together and get people excited about watching your award show, whether they can actually convince I dunno Chris Evans, who doesn't even seem to want to be a part of superhero movies at all anymore to do something like this TVD. Maybe if they keep the requirements low since say, yes, but Chris Evans does want to be a part of making the world a better place through. So you told Chris Evans that he can go on stage and talk about you know, what Kevin Hart said that was wrong and give people hope and whatever and Chris Evans is going to be onstage in a talks, which frankly. Okay, by me. Yeah. I mean, there's some complexity there. Lord, I used to come in parts miss but mentioned his last week to there's this. Also, this whole other access of people in the vendors like with the of Chris pine, and Chris Hemsworth, and these very famous people, but there's also like Paul bet ni and Don Cheadle and the guy who voiced ebony maw and Bradley. Cooper as rocky raccoon. I think that this is honestly a good solution. I don't think that you'd ultimately get a great opening number or a monologue of any kind. But would you get is probably a fairly well oiled show full of very recognizable faces that people are engaged with. That's probably all they needed this point. Right. I think so it makes sense to me in my knee jerk. Reaction of like, there's too much superhero staff. I was not wild about it. And then they are essentially the closest thing we have to movie stars right now. And you put them in Texas, or in, you know, nice apparel of their choosing. And have them charming on stage. Which when they're allowed to be charming in the marvel movies is delightful. Yeah. They're you know, let Chris Hemsworth banter for awhile. So it's fine. You know, what else are they going to do yen in history? We had these times where three or four people have hosted the Oscars at any given time and those people are often like Cary Grant. They're very famous actors who represent a kind of warm feeling that viewers have about movies about going to movies, Ellen Degeneres. Was a great Oscars host. But she really doesn't have anything to do with movies. Unless you enjoyed like the nineteen ninety-five comedy, Mr. wrong, which I don't think anyone did. So I think it's a smart solution that probably should have been the first solution. This whole telecast thing has just been a mess like everything that they've done for the last nine months has been what a fiasco. Yeah way. I'm glad it was not the first solution. If only because if they just announced right out of the gate. Okay. Now, it's the marvel Oscars that changes, how is a person who actually is interested in the Oscars and wants to watch them receive it and receive Botha telecast and actually the voting so and I I respect the attempt to acknowledge the Oscars as something separate from the superhero monoculture that we have now I think they probably could have gotten here sooner as a last chance as a as a last-ditch Lucien is pretty good. Yeah. I feel like hopefully, this is where we go because honestly just don't wanna talk about anymore. Like, it's just not that important. And it's not that interesting even relative to the frivolousness of the Oscars in general, and what wins, and we'll talk a little bit more of a best picture shortly. I just I I need them to settle on something and just be done with it. So we can be done with it. Yes. Let's go to our next segment. We're going to go to stock up stocks down. It goes bust. You can make ten to one twenty to one return, and it's already slowly going bust. Man. We'd be remiss if we did not recap green book Pakalitha. You know, a week ago last Sunday green book, of course, won best musical comedy at the Golden Globes. I can't believe it's only been a week is just as that's unbelievable in terms of the the narrative sense, then continue so two particular things have happened in the unraveling of the green book campaign, and then we'll talk about maybe how it's not unraveled. The I is Nick Villalonga who is one of the co writers of the film and also the son of Tony lip Villalonga Vigo Mortenson character in the movie, it was revealed that in I think in twenty fifteen he tweeted something at Donald Trump about seeing Muslim Americans cheering the fall of the towers from north New Jersey. What? Nope. Like come on. This is that is something that you couldn't script. Now. I do want. It's easy for us to just say morally intellectually bankrupt. That's bullshit, right? We don't even have to discuss that the thing that is interesting to me, and I've talked to a couple of people at this last week. Who are members of the academy is was this something that a journalist found or was this something that an award strategist showed a journalist. And does that matter because the idea of campaigning in twenty nineteen is fairly unexamined? There was a piece in two thousand seventeen than in the New Yorker that looked at sort of the modern campaign. That's the last time we saw anything in-depth about how this stuff works. And I'm very interested to know, whether journalists and Twitter have gotten savvier and have almost made it their raise on debt to come in every day and say, I'm gonna get somebody or we're gonna find something about this person. Who did something I don't like or are there? Little birds sharing information. And maybe it's true that both things are happening yet. It seems a little bit of both. I think an important thing to remember in this time line is that we had more or less written off green book until the Golden Globes. And you know, you did point out. There's a chance to could win. It was starting to make more money. It was persistently showing up in the nominations. But we were like this is this has been handled and then on Sunday night at the Golden Globes. It was clear that had not been handled. And it is not surprising to me that the internet's attention was refocused in the way that it often is it is possible that someone sent you know, maybe you should look into the Twitter account, or maybe you should read this interview from the observer in nineteen ninety nine which we'll talk about. But I think it was kind of inevitable. The if the information is out there, and you are the target is on your movie, then someone's gonna find it. Yes. I think that's definitely true more true than it's ever been concurrently or maybe a day or so later and silman at the cut went back. In was reading some interviews with green book director, Peter Farrelly and discovered a profile. I believe in Newsweek from nineteen ninety eight and in that interview, he revealed that he likes to expose himself onset that is sort of a prank. It liked in that we should give him the benefit of the past sense. It was a running joke. Yes. That is detailed. It's both in Newsweek ended observer article from the time Cameron Diaz is asked about it. And quoted in one of the pieces being like, yes, this is the thing that happens. That's when I think she compares it to create a genius, which, you know, this is not Cameron Diaz has responsibility. So we're going to move past that it does one of the articles say that they had the routine worked out, and he estimates. He's done at five hundred times. That's a lot. That's a lot. I think two things can be true at once here. One thing can be true, which is that one thousand nine hundred was a different time. Now, whether or not what he was doing at that time was socially acceptable. We don't have to negotiate that it wasn't socially acceptable. But whether. People would accept it is different. And it's likely that a powerful person in Hollywood who is making hit movies and was doing things that you wouldn't even socially respectable, and they would do them, and then brag about them is not shocking to me. This wasn't like a Gotcha per se. But it was it was more of an underlining of how different things are now to me Peter fairly very quickly came out and apologized for his actions. I didn't realize at the time that what I had done was wrong. Very clearly identifying things have changed. I feel like we're talking about things have changed a lot in context of the Oscars. And in the context of the film industry in the last three or four years, particularly. You know, I don't think this is acceptable. By any means now, it is a little different than saying Muslims were cheering for the fall of the towers on nine eleven which is just like deplorable. But we don't even have to compare the two the thing. I would say I agree with everything that you just said the fairly stories are from twenty years ago. I agree with the idea that things have changed. It is indicative of an relationship to power and success and insulation that. But you know, we can only apply it to the time at hand. But I do think that if you are powerful and successful, and no one has ever told you that you can't do what you're supposed to do that you remain in the bubble. And I think that it's instructive even though it is certainly from twenty years ago, and you can't apply it to the present day, and he did apologize. I think they're both instructive as much as anything. I agree. And it's not as though this were I don't know Stanley, Kubrick or a cure CORUS, solid doing this. It's pure fairly who orients a lot of his humor around exposing oneself. Now that doesn't make it any more acceptable. But it doesn't make it that shocking. I would say. Nevertheless, I feel like green book is fine. I feel like it whether this storm and people don't care like the people who are going to vote for it are not going to change their minds because of this information. Yes, I don't know. I so I think it doesn't affect the nomination that all it came. This came out I believe on Wednesday of Oscar nominations week. And like I said, I just don't think that enough of the academy is online enough to pay attention to this and to react accordingly should segments this show called are you online? That might be useful in in some of these discussions. I do think that really does matter and to your point. I think the people who are online enough to have caught wind of all this information already knew that they weren't voting for green book. And or they knew that they were voting for green book was I think it will be nominated for in in every damn category. I do wonder how it affects the actual Oscar voting because as you point out. There are a lot of people who are just going to vote for this. And there are a lot of people who are just going to not vote for this. And that's changed. You know, I always wonder about the middle snippet of people who just kind of catch something in the New York Times or on the news. And they're like, oh, well, maybe I'll, you know, the impressionable voter, and I don't know we have a couple of weeks, and maybe I don't know whether the block of committed green book voters is large enough on its own to propel it to best picture victory. And I think that this might. Affect some of the casual voters were some of the unexamined voters. If it gets to them in time, we're gonna have to wait and say we're going to know at least about the nomination of about a week from now, let's just go to the big race. Momma look at me. Now, I'm a star. We're talking about best picture. Let's talk about it. A little bit broader strokes. I wrote about it yesterday on the site the pieces essentially about what is what does it mean to be the best picture, which is an amorphous ill defined idea. Our producer Bobby noted that it's very much like MVP in various sports leagues. You know? They're sort of like does it matter. If your team is good or not does statistical glory matter. The same is true of the Oscars about innovation is it about definition of form about performances is it about vision. It's everything it's always been everything just for you. Personally. Amanda, what does best picture mean to you? And what do you think it should be? This is so exciting sill here. A couple of things why you just described as it as best picture being ill defined thing that we don't know. We're always kind of go sheeting it to me on paper in a perfect world. That's really exciting. And that's what the Oscars should be about. Is that everything? That makes it to nominations is excellent in its own way. We jokes a few months ago about the concept of doing best picture like the dog show, which is you know, the best heist movie the best blockbuster the best costume drama. The best something the actual best of each type of movie makes it to best picture. And then you get to talk about what does actually make the best picture. That's exciting. That is why you and I do the jobs that we do. That's why we invest in this up because we think it is actually interesting and matters to talk about what is good, and what is not good that actually never happened because that's not what we're arguing time. It happened with moonlight. And I was like holy shit changed forever. And then the shape of water one. Yeah. I mean, it happens occasionally, I in the piece I cited the apartment as a movie that I thought was really progressive and sophisticated and funny and odd and romantic and dramatic and traumatic and that one in nineteen sixty one. So every once in a while the Oscars comes along on they're like, we're gonna blow your mind with what a sophisticated group of people. We are in what we're going to say is the best thing that we made this year. And then driving miss daisy wins thirty years later, you know, that the Oscars can just do that for me. It is I I wish it were more about where what direction the form was going in. I wrote a little bit about the kind of the concept of what a comic book movie is now to Hollywood, and I can sense a mild rolling of your eyes. But I'm gonna I'm gonna Cape for this. No, I continue. Now, not all come movies are good. In fact, most of them are not good. I would say most of them are mediocre and not terrible. There are some that are terrible. But this year, we had a few that were genuinely great. I would put Black Panther. In the conversation with any of the movies that we spend all this time talking about especially seeing it again on the big screen this weekend, especially talking Ryan Kugler about it at that panel that I moderated I was pretty overwhelmed by how deep I thought it was and how much more it gave me to think about than many other films. And it wasn't just you know. I don't I don't want to denigrate another movie like I don't know shoplifters, which made me feel a lot and think about the idea of family, but that was pretty much it, you know, I had an emotional reaction to it. Put Black Panthers got so many things on its mind. And it really seemed to use a form that people are responding to in movies right now in the same way that people would use westerns or movies about King, Arthur or musicals to say something about humanity and bigger ideas about the world, I thought it was using all that formats a say so much about where movies are going and working amenity is going that seems grin. But I do believe it, and that is what I think the Oscars should reward. I don't think that it really ever has. But it's. Kind of what I wanna see I wanna see and who better than Ryan cooler is this is the future of movies. I just don't think that's a bad thing. Now, whether or not Black Panther is your Cup of tea. I don't know. I always have people in my mentions like every day saying like Black Panthers super overrated, dude. Which finds okay it's overrated. I over rated relative to what it made like a billion dollars. So I don't know what necessarily what over it. In means. You've raised your finger three times while I've been giving this soliloquy. So I will now see the floor to you. Amanda. I was just going to say, and I think this will blow your mind, but I agree with you. What I know still. We've let me easy. Yes. I agree with you. And I think I talked a little bit about what I think best picture should be. But you know, that's in my dream world. So for me best picture. It's two parts. Number one. Is that it has to be like truly great has to be a truly great movie, and you know, me, and you know, that I have quite exacting standards. And I. You just started laughing. So I would say there are probably only three like actually great excellent films in the in the favourite pool. Okay. And they are Roma a star is born and Black Panther. Because each of those movies is as we were talking earlier fully formed knows what it's doing has ideas has performances has the visual component has connected with audiences which is something. I think that we should come back to has had some form of success. But is just also, you know, some of it is just you know, when you see this is a really excellent movie that will stand the test of time. And that's the other thing when I think about best picture, I think about what's the movie that will keep talking about. And part of the reason I was so galled about shape of water last year. And you mentioned this in your piece, but it's I only think about shape of water to think about how no one thinks talks about shave of water. And that doesn't mean that. It's not an excellent well-made film. Eat is technically and impressive, and it has imagination and all of this works of things. But there are a lot of technically proficient imaginative movies that people just don't connect with people or that. We don't reference back where we don't reference back as frequently as say the social network or forking girl. Nominated Preveza picture. Yes. No. You're right. You're right. You know, and likelihood of there being an oral history of the shape of water on its twentieth anniversary. I think is pretty low. That's not an in a movie working girl when it turned thirty last year people came out, and they were like this movie is still means something to me. It's still mean something to the world it was it was a head of its time. But right on time. Yes. And I think that that's what the Oscar should do. They should capture that feeling in the world. So for me, it's less about a referendum on the industry. Even though I think that that is really useful. And I don't think that you can be a great movie without being able to see the future a bit, and knowing what people are going to want for movies, and what works for and we we talked about this a lot rate Bill. Simmons has a big thing of you can't really judge the best picture until five years later. And I think that's true and very insightful. I think we could judge it a bit sooner. If we really tried and put on our hats and that and last year get out or phantom thread or even lady bird would have one above shape of water. But for me, it is, you know, people really do use the Oscars as a guide. Two of what to watch what to take seriously it helped it forms cannons for better or worse. And I don't know for me. It is something that connects with everyone in the people still want to talk about it's instant history yet, it is more people look at the most to indicate what movies worth that time. So when you go back, and you look, and you see that the greatest show on earth Cecil b two mills movie one in nineteen fifty one. Do you think this movie matters? And I mentioned this on the godfather rewatch Ables. I'm in the middle of really stupid project to try to watch every movie that's ever been nominated for best picture. There are a lot of them that I haven't seen there are actually about eleven or so films that won best picture that. I haven't seen many of which came in the twenties and thirties, but I'm trying to watch everything. And the thing that you realize when you watch everything is that a lot of these movies are not good not only are they not good. They're not important. They don't tell us anything. And it's not just that. You know, they've aged poorly or the industry has changed so much. So something doesn't feel as revolutionary now. Certainly I'm willing to acknowledge some of that stuff. But some of this stuff is just like literally. Hollywood Pap like it's just not it's nonsense and a movie like the greatest the greatest show on earth winning indicates what the voters were like in nineteen fifty one. It doesn't indicate what movies were like. And I I wish that that would change that is kind of where my mind is out with this conundrum that I think the academy probably isn't necessarily thinking about but should consider especially as they lean into whether or not they'd bring back the popular Oscar, well, I was about to say can we jump into the popular because I do feel a lot of people will say, we'll just why don't you? That's what the popular esker should before. And my main opposition to the popular Oscar is that it separates it from fiction because to connect with people and have people want to watch your movie is a skill and it's part of making a good movie. And I don't think it should. I do not think best picture should just be a list of technical achievements. That are taught in film school. I get really annoyed at all of the end of your critics were just like here are my list of the aesthetically perfect. Camera angle movies that that are and that take a lot of talent and skill and vision, and I don't mean to denigrate them, but there is more to making a movie than just. Knowing where to put the camera, and I don't want to separate the popular aspect of film from the movie, it should a really great movie should be able to do both. You know? It's funny. You say that because we opened the show essentially talking about the critics choice awards, and I don't think I'd realize one quite how many awards there were. But also how much closer I think it gets to the idea of populist Oscar ceremony because not only did they have the kind of traditional acting categories the traditional editing category. The traditional cinematography like they hit all those technical achievements. But there's also a category for like science fiction. There's a category for horror. There's a category for young rising star all things that over time people like you, and I have said like the officers would be wise to kind of integrate some of these things into its show to get more people interested in its show. I don't think that that hurts the historical nature of the Oscars. In fact, the Oscars is kind of always adding and removing categories. This stuff is really fungible. And I don't really see why the critics. Choice awards should do a better job of representing a year movies than the Oscar should. But in in some ways, I thought that it did. I don't think a quiet place is the best movie. I saw last year. But I think it'd be interesting to identify. What is useful and interesting about a quiet place at the Oscars? Nevertheless, I don't think it will be doing that. Let's just look ahead. Very quickly. So voting close it close today, but the nominations than for the nominations. Yes. Do you think there was any last-minute bids for crazy, rich, Asians or Spiderman into the spider verse perhaps emoji? I mean, isn't Spiderman is that. You're moving in a win your movie. Yeah. You have millions and millions of love it by vast auto is its box office, actually because it was disappointing. I right. It's it's elaine's welcomes way to two hundred million dollars in America. That's great for animated film. Plenty I'm happy for all of you. Thank you phantom. Thread was the surprise number of nominations last year was not recognized by almost any of these groups significantly as we thought it was going to be and then it came through. I had six nominations at the Oscars only one one. But you know, there was there was a recognition of master working at his best known. Whether you think that's Paul Thomas Anderson, Jane Doe day Lewis or Lesley Manville. You can say that there will likely be one surprise. There will be one thing that happens where you're like I didn't see that coming. But it's good. Can you suggest a one surprise for me? I can. And this is really a podcast where I say things that you want to hear, and I don't know how that happened. I can see the hawks. I can yes, let's go to the promised land been shunted aside for months. This is a foolish nece delivering to those of us who are paying attention to award size. God we didn't plan this. He's just yelling hawk okay. Into the Oscars. Where he belongs. No. I mean, he has no chance to win because that category is stacked and Christian bale has been running roughshod over people. But and I think with Romney Malik in their Bradley Cooper in there. It's a it's a tough category. But you know, like who cares if Vigo gets nominated like just get Vigo out of there. We don't need Vigo. You know, what has been interesting actually, raise something in my mind. I was talking to you about this last week to a mood that isn't going away is black klansman and John David Washington, Adam driver or not going away. They're at like every award show. They're getting recognized by every group, and I don't think the black Klansman's gonna win very many husker's. But I do think that it's going to have maybe four maybe even five nominations, which is pretty impressive for that movie. If John David Washington is the reason Ethan Hawke doesn't get nominated though, I ride in the streets. Kaige's say, I don't know if you were watching this closely at the Golden Globes, but no one was sadder about not winning the John David Washington, and even sitting between his parents, one of whom it should be noted as Denzel Washington, and that was a tough that was a tough moment for me. And I thought John David Washington was great in black klansman. I thought his how I found out. I got nominated for a Golden Globe story was foreign away the winner of the Golden Globe out. So apparently his he was at home and his dad came in. And was like oh it sleep in its on. Do you want to come out? And he has this awkward moment with his dad being Denzel Washington about whether they should watch the Golden Globe nominations being announced. And then they did. And then he's nominated and his dad goes nuts and his dad being Denzel Washington. And then he faced with his mom who couldn't be there. 'cause she was additioning for a hamlet in Chicago. So great great storytelling. I would love to have that again at the Oscars. I think it'll be Ethan Hawke just because there are so many actors voting and actors love, Ethan Hawke. I love Ethan Hawke. I would be delighted I really hope. It's Ethan Hawke. Yeah. I also really hope Paul Schrader gets nominated for best screenplay. He won last night at the Grinch who is awards, which I thought was interesting, obviously, I. Forms has been a real critical darling and has not necessarily been a Hollywood, darling. Any other surprises? I don't I don't think. So I mean, I it would be interesting to see a movie that we haven't been talking. Maybe like if leave no trace picks up a couple of nominations. I think that that would be a good thing. That's the kind of thing that the Oscars con con coming out of left field does. We're Thomson MacKenzie gets under for best actress or something or democratic. It's a best director nomination. That'd be wonderful. I don't think it's likely. What else? I don't know. It seems as you wrote in your piece yesterday, it seems to unsettled for a ton of surprises. Just because there are so many movies and play the actor racism, and it seems like Christian bale is a lock Mahershala probably a lack Regina king. But even Jean King has been overlooked a couple places. So we don't totally know a lot of things could happen. I don't know whether any of them would be wildly surprising. I agree. It's going to be very interesting. Please join us next week. Early in the morning. Oh, yeah. And it will be very Chipper very excited to talk about these Oscar nominations, and until then thanks very much. Amanda. Thanks, sean.
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