20 Episode results for "Paul Gauguin"

Paul Gauguin Cruise Ship Tour and Review

Tips for Travellers Podcast

10:29 min | 1 year ago

Paul Gauguin Cruise Ship Tour and Review

"You're about to discover everything. You need to know about pool gog on cruises. What's good who it's ready for and important watch outs hi. I'm gary benbridge and this. This is another of my tips for travis. I'm currently as a record this onboard the poll gone out to share with you everything that i've learned about pogo gone that you need to know uh pogo gone is a small ship luxury cruise line. It's a one ship cruise line and they cruise around the french polynesian islands the refocus focus on seven to fourteen day round trips out of the petty. They're owned by a company called pacific beach and they are the biggest operator of luxury resorts across the french polynesian islands. They've been in business for twenty five years so real experts in the region the ship that says as the pull gun originally came into service nine thousand nine hundred ninety eight was actually bought by the pacific beach in two thousand six and became the paul gauguin to sell around the region so what to paul gauguin do that's unique different or better in my view. There are five things that they do incredibly well. First of all small ship luxury cruising using the ship only has three hundred thirty two guests. Two hundred seventeen crews are very high crew to passenger ratio. They have quite a wide range of cabins which trains from very large owner suites down to porthole cabins cruising in the most common on board. Which is the balcony cabin because beautiful. It's great to have a balcony cruising through french polynesia. The ship has quite a lot of choice so there are three dining venues on board all of which are included within the fat so the main school lead twelve they also have the verandah which is a buffet for breakfast and lunch and the evening turns into sort of about market french restaurant front and the heavily grill which is up on deck and again. It's a buffet breakfast and lunch and in the evening it becomes a special dining venue. The ship also has the usual usual things that you would expect despite being small ships that has a theater has a small casino couple of bars on board pool deck. It has a spot has a fitness center. The ship also has a water sports platform which opens at the rear of the ship so obviously a small ship but it's a preloader ship. It's fitted out in a very luxurious way and on the service and attention to detail and the quality of the food is very high. The company has been operating for over twenty five years within french polynesia's so their understanding and the relationship with all of the islands and the people is very very strong said really know and understand the islands and have incredible connections. The pogo count itself has been designed designed to cruise around the french polynesian islands so not only is it small but also has a very shallow draft and that's very important because it can call on the islands that other ships caught get to onboard they have what is known as the lay organs these are billed as taishan ambassadors and also polynesian entertainers. They didn't provide much of the entertainment and also many of the activities are run by the less cons they will do. Don says they will do singing provide demonstrations on how to make local crofts so let's cocoons are key part of the whole polynesian experience that is created on board the ship. There's also an enrichment electron board who will give talks about the region and they have a big punisher night normally held in maria where they bring on board local entertainers the have a punishment buffet pungent food so i think one of the key things they do is bring alive the whole connection the whole polynesian experience the the third thing which i think is really good is the fares are largely all inclusive pretty much. Everything's included so of course you're combinations included oil dining including including eating at the specialty dining restaurants or your gratuities on polluted. Your drinks are included so wine beer. Spirits soft drinks use use of the watersports platform. That's included they also provide your snorkeling equipment also time at the private beach in bora bora and also access says and the day on the private island motor muhanna and of course all the entertainment on the on-board enrichment activities so what's not included or excursions are not included wifi is not included and you can buy packages of wifi so for example on the cruise it is on its around about twenty nine dollars a day for unlimited wi fi and the wi fi was actually pretty good. Another thing which i think is something they do. Incredibly well is some of the access to the private facilities so evidently private avid islet called moto mahane which is the island of faa and this is a beautiful day out way you head across a host ship has across they don't on entertainment you have sports. They have a fantastic and huge barbecue and also in bora bora. They have private beach. They will shuttle people to and from the beach. I think that's a phenomenal thing some of their privacies these are really top notch that absolutely beautiful and they of course included within the fair. Another thing that i thought was a phenomenal thing. They did worthy excursions. There was an enormous range of excursions. Particularly considering is quite a small ship and just have it three hundred passengers so they had scuba diving snorkeling in every report wave runner activities and every coach at catamaran's simple gentle sightseeing glass bottom boats days out at very premium siemian prestigious resorts which was one of my favorites. You'd have access to the beach. The who you'd have lunch included that had much more active excursions so they had the things like a._t._v.'s and full by four drives and some cultural and ecological activities as well then on top of that you could also then go and helicopter rise float plane rides and get a view of the islands so new normal range of excursions were offered and that was a big plus especially as i said because it's a small ship with not that many passages so who do i think that pull gauguin is most successful especially the passages are in their fifties and and sixty s and pretty active is a pretty active cruise for start. All of the stops are tend to stop so you have to be nimble enough to be able to climb in and out of the ten days is a couple of places that were like on the private beach that was a wit landing gear to be acting able enough to get off the tenders into the water mostly exclusions. It's all pretty actively the snorkeling a._t. Drives us wave runners the cycling so it's pretty active experience you'll find that the passengers tend to be sort of fifties and sixties but they all very active now of course it's a luxury line so it's really expensive so that does by definition attract the people who are able to have the time and the money me to do that because french polynesia is quite a long way to get to from europe. It's about twenty one us even from l._a. It's eight out there. Were of course some young people on board because of course french polynesia coming luxury cruise is also very attractive for honeymooners people celebrating some significant birthdays or events in terms. The mix of people put an interesting mix. It's predominantly american lots of canadians but there was a good representation of people from asia because things like etta hiti nui it it flies in from japan quality french because of course the strong french connection with french polynesia and of course with all cruises wherever you go you'll always find and lots of australians and new zealanders who love cruising that i was on board is primarily english but all the announcements will be done by an english and french. The menus will be an english and french program can either english or french so definitely is bilingual but it is predominantly english on board so what about solo tablets and what about families families there were a couple of solid on board the cruise i was on but it can be relatively expensive way to cruise. What's very important. Is you need to work with your agent or with poor god. If you are a traveler i wanna come the cruisers because they do various office and deals at various times of the year but you can end up paying the premium cabins and the sweets the the price of two people in our one of you so very importantly so work with your crews agent will work with paul gauguin and find out which of the cruisers they're offering different discounts in office with better prices for solar travelers. So what about families now polka can can be a pretty attractive option. If you think you've come to the region with family for a couple of reasons they are introducing sydney during the key summer school holidays and the more significant holidays of christmas christmas time. They're offering a lot of opportunity centers for families to come aboard. So what are the deals for families. If your child is aged seventeen years old or under onda they sell free if they're in the same cabinets you of course then you have the various taxes and the flights to get there also what they have introduced is a new program which which is called the mona explore program they run a program for kids onboard estrogen seven and fifteen loss of activities related to the marine marine life ocean conservation so it's really educational but fun at the same time and those are run on selected cruises so if you're planning to travel on pogo gone and with your family very check with bulger gannon your agent that you'll cruise has those offers real simple check if they do have the mona explore explorer program on board because that's gonna make your child's life on board really fantastic now. Dress code on board is relatively relaxed and inform home and it's what sort of casual smart casual in the evenings. You're just a little bit so you're asked to wear a collared shirt. Ideally no genes somewhere slacks if your agenda and luke kuhn feleti so nor no torn jeans no shorts so if you're one of those people that want to get dressed up you can and if you you like to cruise cruise and rotating former relaxed way you'll suddenly find that on board pork again people dress relatively smartly but not only so the key thing is called shirts and slacks is the most that you need to worry about the key strength of pogo gone is that it's a small ship it secures and they are absolute experts in french polynesia asia. I have loads of videos of tips about all the regions of the world including more about french polynesia. So why don't you watch one of those right now.

polynesia paul gauguin bora bora pacific beach gary benbridge travis faa luke kuhn bulger maria Don asia europe crofts wi etta hiti nui a._t._v. sydney
Failure (interlude)

Benjamen Walker's Theory of Everything

26:27 min | 2 years ago

Failure (interlude)

"You are listening to Benjamin walkers theory of everything. Testing testing Andrew come in is this thing working. Loud and clear Benjamin. That's great. You know, many subscription boxes are filled with cheap junk, you'll never use. But not battle Bach with these compact walking Takis, I can talk to Andrew while he's out in the world. Adventuring gear box is the monthly subscription for outdoors enthusiasts vivacious and adventure seekers who wanna be prepared for any situation that'll box introduces you to the best products new gear in innovative companies at a much lower cost than if you were to buy them, individually dot com slash theory and pick the box you on they start at just twenty five dollars per month. They've shipped over half a million boxes. One best men subscription box twenty seventeen and the release video for each new box. So you can see what's coming and know how to use it engine. Did you just cut yourself with one of the knives that came in the box? Yeah. No worries. I'll. Be right down with a quick seal. Wound-care spray powder that also came in the box. Hurry, you dear listener, sign up your first battle box. At try battled box dot com slash theory. And you can get a free tactical knife. Oh, that's working pretty well. Yes. I up today and you'll be ready for anything. That's try battle box dot com slash theory. I spend most of my time sitting down reading books working on my laptop making this podcast. I do try to get out an exercise, but sometimes little things can get in the way like deciding what the hell on going to wear to the gym. It is just way too hard to find that perfect pair of workout shorts. And this is why ten thousand they simplify everything to deliver three premium shorts that perfectly cover all the ways we train one built for versitality another for durability and one to be super lightweight ten thousand has you covered. Whatever you do cross fit running spin yoga lifting and weakened adventures in the wild ten thousand cuts out the retail middleman. So they're gear is Bill. With premium fabrics trims and techniques that the other guys just can't afford to us. They also offer personalization all ten thousand shorts are available in multiple configurations liner, no liner and various insead lanes. People really like ten thousand on the website. They've got over a thousand five star reviews from real everyday guys. They've also been voted by men's health as the best training shorts of the year. Take a look at the shorts and the reviews and save twenty percent at ten thousand dot CC promo code theory. Every order gets free shipping free exchanges and free returns. Plus you'll save twenty percent right now at ten thousand dot C c with promo code theory. That's T E N T H U S A N, D dot CC, promo code theory. These installment is called failure interlude one follow the money to the show three to get ready. Perkins's song. Blue suede shoes was released on January. First nineteen fifty six sun records, number two thirty six Sam Phillips, the owner of sun records had put it out his fast as he could. Because now that Elvis had been poached by RCA it was unclear just how the little Memphis label was going to stay afloat. Carl always maintained that he knew the song would be a hit. He knew his song about a man trying to hold onto that one little thing of beauty in his otherwise bleak and dreary life would strike a chord with the listening public. And he was right. The song shot up the charts by the end of January. There were already orders in excess of over twenty five thousand copies, not even Elvis had caused this much commotion. In fact, Steve shoals was his producer at RCA called Sam Phillips and asked him if he'd been sold the wrong man, Elvis did have a song that looked like it might make our CA some money heartbreak hotel. But it didn't have the excitement that blue suede shoes. Had which is why the nervous RCA execs made Elvis record version of blue suede shoes for release as a four song EP on February eleventh, Carl perkins's blue suede shoes, they viewed it number. Two on the Memphis country charts the following week. It went to number one on the road. The girls started screaming whenever Kara would walk on stage and afterwards, everyone would try to touch him. Grab a hold of his clothing on February third. He performed a sold out show on the night of the worst snowstorm in fifty years then on March third the song broke the billboard national charts along with Alice's heartbreak hotel. Interestingly enough, but it was only Carl who are week later became the first country star to have a song on the national country. Pop and are in be charts. That's when the Perry. Cuomo shell booked Carl Perkins for the night of March twenty fourth by this time blue suede shoes was making Sam Phillips a lot of money. In fact, when the welfare board realized that the singer of the hit song blue suede shoes was living in one of their housing units. They promptly kicked. Him and his wife Valda out Sam knowing that Carl was always worried about money decided that he would surprise Karl on the set of the Perry Cuomo show and inform him on live television. How the song was officially now a gold record. Sam also rented a Chrysler limo for the band, so that they could travel up to New York City in style. But his dawn broke on the morning of the twenty fourth the limo plowed into the back of a milk truck spun out of control and rolled four times on the Delaware highway. That night. Carl Perkins watched Elvis Presley perform on the doors e brothers television program from his hospital bed in Dover, Delaware. The legend goes that on this night Elvis performed blue suede shoes, but the truth is that Elvis out of respect for his injured colleague only played heartbreak hotel. It wasn't until April. Third on the Milton Berle program that Elvis took possession of blue suede shoes. Once and for all. Gentleman like to do my newest Victor lease for you song as cold blue suede. It's one of the Monnet. Gatorade. Or not. That's always Presley performing live on the deck of the US Hancock where the April third nineteen fifty-six Milton Berle show taped. Now, listen again, listen to the way that Elvis starts the song. Now that is called perkins's signature start here. Listen to the way that he recorded the song one for the money to further show three to get ready. And this is the way Elvis recorded the song for the show. Red. Don't do double boost way issue. It's a totally different take. But yet on April third nineteen fifty six he plays. It the Carl Perkins way the way most people were used to hearing it on the radio. To show three Gatorade. Or not. I think he was sending a message. He was letting people know that there was nothing anybody could do about his becoming the king of rock and roll not even Carl Perkins. Carl watched this performance to in -sconsin a full upper body cast he and his wife Valda watched Elvis play Carl song on the television set that Carl had purchased just before he'd set out from New York Carl had wanted vaulted a seer husband's big national television show debut with their own eyes and from the comfort of their own home. There are many Elvis scholars who believe that this very TV appearance on the Milton Berle show marks the official beginning of Elvis mania. The Hollywood executives who caught the show clearly saw something because two days later, they signed Elvis to his first six picture deal. A couple of things became clear that night for Carlin Valda is. Well, first of all there was no point talking about there being a contest between him and Elvis ever again that was for sure in. Secondly, maybe it wasn't such a good idea to have purchased TV Valda contemplated. Bring up the subject asking if the set could perhaps be returned for a full cash refund. But Carl looked so pitiful there and his full upper body cast basking in the glow of Elvis, so instead she just gave him a hug while the closest thing to a hug a woman can give a man who's in sconces in a full upper body cast. That story about blue suede shoes. I made that over ten years ago. It was in an episode that was actually called failure failures always been a big scene for me. I've always felt kinship with the losers. The also rans and the vanquished. I've also always been obsessed with how we work out who ends up on the bottom and who ends up on top. This is really what's at the heart of the series. We're doing right now. Well that and you too. This question is also what drew me to the artist Paul gone in one of the very first radio series that I made I tried to make sense of how Gauguin went from dying broke in alone on the island of Tahiti covered in Civiletti sores to being one of the world's most celebrated artists. I'm going to share with you an excerpt from this series, which was called Noah Noah, it's a story about Paul Gauguin's failed attempt to take Paris by storm. August eighteen ninety three Paul Gauguin returns the Paris. He's been gone for almost two years. He's been living like a savage on the island of Hiti, restoring his creative juices bathing in the delightful waters, screwing little thirteen year old island girls. But now he's back. He's been working very hard. These past two years. He's brought back with him over fifty paintings. That's more than enough art to set Paris on fire more than enough art prove his genius and silences detractors wide. It's enough art to ensure that he gets one of the best seats in the pantheon of art history. But just in case just in case, the dolts in the dumbbells of Paris. Don't get his amazing new art. He has a thirty page manuscript. That will explain it all to them in black and white. The working title of this manuscript is. No, no that means frequent fragrant into the title refers to both the sweet smells of paradise and the ripe pungent smells of tropical sets. But well, we'll come back to that. I go Gan Neath a gig. He has connections. God likes his stuff and threw him. Go. Get some face time with the well known art dealer Durant. Rua the meetings success in Gauguin gets himself a one man show and Durant rules gallery. Gauguin throws himself into the preparation and for the first time in his artistic career. He actually has enough money to make sure that everything is just right. You see just after Gauguin returned his rich uncle is it finally kicked the bucket, and he left Gauguin thirteen thousand francs. Of course, his wife tries to move in on the dough. She figures it's rightfully hers since she's the one racing the five kids Gauguin Setzer straight. He throws a few Franks and tells her to screw this is his big moment. And he needs that big wad. He needs to be well heeled for his debut. I he gets himself some duds he has a long blue frock coat, Taylor, bent. He adorns it with large Godley mother of Pearl button. He also buys a large Astrakhan hat to which he adds a bright band of blue ribbon and to make sure his frock matches his walking stick. He fixes a large Pearl to the top of the handle and this is important area walking stick. No gauguin's. Rod is ornately carved with pornographic, images and primitive idols. He looks good. He looks like an artist. For arm candy. He picks up this hot little number who goes by the name of on of the Japanese. No one knows for sure if she's Indian or Malayan, but she's definitely teenager. And she definitely the right woman for an up and coming artists she dresses weird. She likes to dance in the street with their little pet monkey. She's perfect Gauguin honor in the monkey I'll move into a studio. It's his first real apartment since becoming an artist over the door. He hangs us on that says to fire rule. That's the he for love is honor here. He feels the house with all sorts of primitive objects carvings weapons seashells anything that looks native or exotic. He paints the walls olive green with yellow trim. And he hangs his favorite paintings on the wall, including a few sunflower scenes by the late. Vincent vanco. The one man show, a retrospective of the art of Paul Gauguin Vincent would have been. So proud such a shame. He never recovered from his mental breakdown. Vincent would have made. Sure that everyone understood that the Haitian paintings were continuation of a project that began when the to live together in Arles what did finish and call the little yellow house. Oh, yeah. The studio of the south. But then again, Vincent would probably try and take credit for all that. It's good that he's dead. This is no time for shared spotlight. This is kgo Ganz moment in the sun. So just to make sure Gauguin takes down the sunflowers, and he puts them in the closet. It's November four the big day. Forty six paintings and two sculptures Gauguin arrived at the gallery early. He make sure all the paintings are hanging properly. He had just is frost in his hat, and then the doors open and the crowd comes rushing and everyone. So horrible. I. I braked out every. Supposed to be his art Tissot debut. It's opposed to be his day and the people they act like it's the world's fair something like like these artists so carnival traction. He has this one baby. It's called delightful land. It's great really. It's this depiction of the fall from grace by done with teaching symbols. It's very inventive picture eve. Is this large naked to Haitian woman? And instead of a snake? There's this large black lizard whispers indoor ear and in her hand, she holds this exotic flower instead of apple it's a beautiful painting. But this crowd of half. Of. Someone shouts out look at the monkey woman, he met they dump his to Houston eve, the monkey woman, and and then the rest of the crowd picks it up monkey woman monkey. Do you realize how humiliating and degrading this must've it you realize how hateful moment most band? On thinking that the crowd is calling out to her. She climbs up onto one of the pedestals and starts. Fuck. Totals as. Even as artist friends joining is mentor. Pizarro tells the crowd that Gauguin should be commended for his shameless theft from the little known people of Tahiti and Pasana son draws this horribly mean character, he makes Gauguin's hat look stupid. He makes his frock with the Pearl buttons look stupid and his ornately carved pornographic walking stick. He makes that look stupid too. The character appears in the newspaper the following morning. The company's review that says, and I quote to amuse your children seven them to the co Gannex Bishop they will have fun looking at the colored images representing Quadra Monis females lying on the billiards tape. Okay. And tries to pass it off. He pretends only to hear the praise of his sycophants day. I'll tell him. He's there Rembrandt's they tell him he's their greatest modern painter. He smiles he stands tall in his Astrakhan hat, and he tells everyone that he doesn't give a damn where other people think, but it's just an act. He's devastated Millie. The pistol into his mouth and blow out the back of his head. After this everything goes to shift may stop painting gets the press and in January wall visiting Brittany with Ana he breaks his ankle in a fight with some sailors apparently on a mouth off to some of the local Gauguin ends up in the hospital for a month. And when he finally makes it back to Paris he discovers that she's looted his studio off she left him only his paintings. His paintings weren't even worth stealing. He makes one last attempt. He holds a blowout auction at the hotel drool, but the auction flops and go Gan comes out five hundred francs poor this brings the humiliation full circle. He leaves Paris drunk in tears. He doesn't even bother to say goodbye. June twenty nine eighteen ninety five Paul Gauguin is once again going to heat this time, it's for good. He's never coming back. One day going to build myself a time machine, and I'm going to set the controls for November fourth 1893 Paris, France opening night for Gauguin's one man show at the Iran. Royal, gallery aware some nice clothes maybe union Astrakhan hat in all March into that gallery, and I'll go up to Passat and I'll punch him right in the mouth a run every single one of those Philistines into the street. And then I would throw my arms around go care, and I will tell him that all the humiliation and all the futility of his life is nothing compared to the respect and admiration that he's going to command in the twenty century. I'll tell him how he's in all the art history books, how his paintings are worth millions of dollars in our crown jewels of Newseum collections of tell them how there's some people. Myself included who consider him to be the first artist who are tickets, a modern definition of freedom. The job screw the wife and kids. Let's make. You have been written into Benjamin Walker theory of everything this instrument. It's cold failure in. This episode is comprised of two pieces from the Benjamin Walker podcast, Artem the I was from an episode called failure. And the second was from an episode called Noah Noah part to both stories were written and produced by me. The theory of everything is produced by me Benjamin Walker and Andrew Calloway. Find us on the web at theory of everything podcast dot com. And subscribe wherever you get your podcast. The theory that everything's a proud founding member of radio topa home to some of the world's best podcast. Find them all at radio, Topi dot FM. Okay. If you're not already a subscriber to radio Topi as podcast showcase. Now is the moment you should rectify that. Because right now on showcase they have two leading producers at the top of their game. I'm talking about Charles means our very own Tia. We russia. Correspondent the last time. We heard from him was when he told us about the night wolves last November and Julia Barton also a friend of the show, and one of the most talented people working with audio these to have just released the first episode in a four part series called space bridge, which tells a largely forgotten story from nearly forty years ago about technology citizen, diplomats and the Cold War both Soviets and Americans used early internet space bridges to communicate what they're supposed enemies. They had some really ahead of their time ideas in this clip. Listen to writer, Adam Hoge shield described the radical ideas of Soviet utopian Joseph golden, he believed in the power of TV transmissions to bridge the gap between the enemy empires of the US, and the USSR he had a vision that now that this technology existed, you could put giant TV screens live interaction with the big quality screen. And people could come up and talk to people in other cities. It's possible deck niclely possible. And then they would look at the TV screen and see themselves in another city to see the fundamental roots. Have. And in this way, all barriers among people would evaporate. Find out more about space bridge and all of the previous showcase series at radio. Topi Dada him slash showcase. Radio.

Paul Gauguin Carl Perkins Elvis Presley Gauguin Setzer Paris Sam Phillips Paul Gauguin Vincent Benjamin Walker Milton Berle Carlin Valda Andrew Calloway RCA Memphis Noah Noah US Delaware Victor Topi dot Perry Cuomo russia
7.02: The Mommy Problem

The West Wing Weekly

57:20 min | 1 year ago

7.02: The Mommy Problem

"Support comes from the Saint Louis Art Museum inviting visitors on a journey through artist Paul Gauguin's fascinating career in the new exhibition Paul Gauguin the art of invention from impressionist paintings and prince two sculptures ceramics wchs inspired by his world travels Paul Gauguin the art of invention unveils the artists innovative and experimental style on view July twenty first through September fifteenth at the Saint Louis Art Museum Info at s. l. a. m. dot work. The West Wing weekly is sponsored by ever lane. Ever Lane makes great close. They make premium essentials using the finest materials yeah they do their big hit at the Molina household. We've been longtime customers at at the here way. Household is well. I was first introduced them by the very fashionable Lindsey and I'm on board. I have so much everyone in my closet. Chances are if you are to ever see me out in the world. I'm wearing at least one if not multiple ever lane items items most recently sure I got a pair of ever lane sneakers their news sneaker line called Tread Tread. I got treads there my favorite shoes now. They're great and like all of ever lane stuff they're cool and stylish without looking like you're trying into hard and they're also affordable very affordable and they are transparent. They let you know what you're paying for and why they tell you they're real costs and right. Now you can check out our personalized collection of some of our favourite ever lane items at ever lane dot com slash slash west wing plus. You'll get free shipping on your first order. So that's ever lane dot com slash west wing again. It's ever lane dot com slash West Wing. You're listening to the West Wing Weekly. I'm Joshua Molina and I'm Rishikesh away and today we're talking about episode two from Season Seven. It's called the mommy problem. It was written by Eli Attie it was directed by Alex Graves and first aired on October tober second two thousand five in this episode. The astronauts who were stuck in the space station been rescued but the investigation into the leak about the secret military space shuttle gets ratcheted up as a grand jury gets convened so nobody's going to emergency but but somebody is going to joe exactly how bad news for the Santos mcgarry campaign who also having trouble getting their message out and projecting an image of Santos that's substantial so josh hires a communications director and together they try to deal with the good luck or bad luck of Santos getting uncalled for Marine Reserve Duty Very nice substantial exactly we may have covered this a little bit before Richard Schiff mentioned that he was not a fan of the second half a season six and season seven and <hes>. I feel like you can hear it in his voice just when he says previously on the West League that's funny. What did you think of this episode? I like this episode overall. I definitely like it and I liked tweets written and directed in that there's incredible amount of movement especially early on like I felt caught up in the blur of presidential campaign. Yeah it moved very quickly. The characters were physically themselves on the move much of the time and I got caught up and all that I enjoy it yet. Alex Graves directed this episode. It's the first time that Alex Graves and Eli Attie have been paired together even though they've both been part of the western forever sure it was an interesting combination Alex Graves. I thought really let it all rip in this episode in a way that just takes everything that he's done. We've seen him do all kinds of kinetic things in the show before but I feel like he turned it up to eleven here I agree and it was also interesting watching knowing that the per episode budget had been slashed his too strong but certainly downgraded or lessened. I don't think you see it in the episode not in this episode definitely not I mean we've got actual jetfighters in the episode right exactly. There's a little bit of a U._S.. Military advertisement at the end of the episode I mean appropriate in context but ah I was impressed with hardware yeah so it didn't feel like budgets had been cut at all. I was happy to know that the money they saved by not having me in the episode like that that money went to put it up on the screen they did they did yeah. Actually I was going to get this later but since you mentioned it we've talked a little bit about your diminishing screen time in the opening credits in this episode they have been diminished altogether indeed. This is the first time since you've been in the opening credits that suddenly you aren't there at all you delay hill engine. Maloney are only in the title credits when you're actually in the episode you get the Stockard channing deal right personally. Speaking couldn't care less yeah. Did you know that this was going to happen. I have no memory of it because because it's so unimportant to me I know I've addressed it before. Whenever I'm discussing with my agents credit and the negotiations surrounding credits I always say for an extra dollar per episode? I'd be happy to have no credit whatsoever so I don't really care about my credits. I don't remember being an issue at all. I think it must have just been <hes>. I duNNo. It's interesting. I would've thought it'd been pre negotiated but I guess it was their prerogative and <hes> you know I feel appropriate to me if I'm not in the opposite right and they told you in advance that you weren't gonna be in all the episodes right exactly as I mentioned live episode I knew I was getting half a season which was disappointing on one level but on another level of it was nice that the kept me on the show I could very easily have not been part of this season at all right okay so back to Alex's <hes> directing for a second. I feel a little ambivalent about it to be honest. I think that he does so much stylistically that sometimes it doesn't feel like the west wing anymore. I think you know you've got the characters in the dialogue and the story lines so obviously it is but it really feels like he has is stretching what the show can be and I'm not sure that that's a bad thing or good thing but I I definitely felt how different it was. You know I I felt like Alex Graves. At this point he directed shows ally mcbeal and sports night and West Wing. You know shows sort of like people talking in offices <hes> but this episode gives you a glimpse of like how much power he has as a director and makes you understand that this is a person who will eventually direct three of the best episodes of game of thrones yeah. That's absolutely right yeah. I like it I think you're right about it. Feels like you know the D._N._A.. Of the shows changed bidders in the process of changing but I kind of like it feels sales appropriate to me feels appropriate to the storyline that we're now full on presidential campaign. <hes> were you know now three years into John Wells tenure as the show runner and I can also feel the show I think a little bit trying trying to morph into something that can last although we will not beyond seven seasons <hes> you know possibly turning into television series. That's going to track another administration so one of the things that really stood out especially was this montage montage that happens early on when they're showing the campaign and there's jet airliner by Steve Miller band planning yes I was wondering as I watched listened how the Steve Miller band hits you. I'm so much older than you. It puts me exactly in specific place will places that summer have seventy nine or eighty junior counselor camp gray la Beckett Massachusetts we would go to this bar after so maybe even eighty one bad only knows maybe they were a little bit behind the Times because I think jet airliners seventy eight but there is a jukebox in this bar that would play place Steve Miller band and so I go right there when I hear that music this is actually because of this episode and you know looking things up. I actually found out what this song really was. I mean it's been in the background of my life for my entire life life but <hes> I never paid attention to it. It was just sort of like wallpaper to me. It's a cover this version of the cover right which I'd never known I'd never known that this was a cover of a poll penny song. Is that funny when when that happens when you find out a song that you've loved there's a version that predates that no actually I had that twice during this episode really yes because later later in the episode I think we are subtly informed that Matt Santos had his partying days Bogart my education plan for some low tar congressional no compromise wow lots of smoking token references in a couple and the space of a couple sentences and it reminded me immediately of Song but well I thought by what turns out to be a cover version by a little feat of a song don't bogart that joint my friend of course the reference of Bogarde ing something refers back to Humphrey Bogart and these sort of Louche way he would dangle a cigarette from the corner of his his mouth and the idea Bo guarding joint is you've got in your mouth instead of passing into the next person and little feat has a song don't bogart that joint my friend but it turns out that is a song by band called fraternity of men they put out that song sixty eight it was used in the film easy rider in sixty nine and then in seventy eight little feat covered it on a live album and that's the version I know I thought to be the original before we get back to the songs. Let me digress on your digression here. Sure this line from Santos. The metaphor there is so is so smoky like I get lost in a little bit because I it sounds like he is talking about <hes> Pot and he says what are they smoking. They bogart education plan but then he says for some low tar congressional compromise so now it's a cigarette move into cigarettes. Yes he goes and then they serve up a big fat pitch for switch hitter Vinik and suddenly were in baseball <hes> unless light means pitch as in pitch tar and and we're still talking about Dr. I like you're thinking yeah he's free forming. That's stream-of-consciousness regretting and clearly desperate to get high was so stoned when he wrote this possibly may have to pick up the phone. Ask him he's demonstrating classics donor behavior of Mixing Metaphors. That's right okay back to jet airliner sure I I thought I never knew what the lyrics were. I thought they were seeing something about North or South Carolina. I thought Carolina to you did I was embarrassed to admit that this song resonated with me so much but I'd already gotten I always thought is Carolina to uh as they go down Carolina or something like that way to <hes> to caroline I dunno yeah. It's Kinda. Disappointing big old jet airliner is just a weird phrase for a song it is just a thing but that song is such a big move to play really recognizable song to have a montage set to a song that alone is just very uncommon in the West Wing just feels like when we've had it. It's felt very different. There hasn't been this sort of flashy high-speed kind of cutting that goes along with it. It's not something that feels foreign because we see it in movies and T._v.. But just not this show and <hes> one thing I will say all the Friggin flashbulbs bulbs and camera clicks through the montage did get on my nerves. That was one thing that I was like watching scandal. Hey by the transit of law. You're suggesting that the candle got on your nerve no just that there were a lot of yes yes a lot of flashbulbs and chemically yeah. We didn't get the sound effect and that would be company by that. Sound effect and then the series of quick photographs we call jazzy snaps and that became I'm the nickname of Mitch Haddad the photographer force gamble who's responsible for that entire aesthetic that was used on scandal so often jazzy snaps. Well okay so one thing that I liked about this montage despite not liking it sort of in itself. I really liked what it does for the episode overall because we're still in the cold open. Technically the credits have not rolled yet and the first time I watch us I remember thinking how surprising it was that they roll out this big montage so <music> early in the episode and I was like well pace yourself everybody <hes> but but it's exactly the pacing that sort of gets commented on because you have all this energy and then for the rest of the episode. It feels like they're crashing through molasses. Yeah there is a contrast I agree agree early on I felt wrapped up in almost overtaken by the momentum campaign and the sheer volume of visual information being fed to us and some of these walks and talk. We're incredible. choreographies biography is pretty stunning. Yeah does feel like they have momentum feels like they're moving in and things are going and then the rest of the episode is about how things get derailed and what an uphill battle Josh has to face to try and get them back into some kind of momentum and feel like they're moving again so I thought that was it was really smart to have that huge kinetic moment early on and then and then have dissipate actually my favorite piece of direction comes right after the montage ends during the montage it feels like Alex graves is Mario who's just gotten the like the star power up his INVINCI- invincible Boston through the level but then then things settle down and that I shot after the montage is so beautiful honor if you remember this but the camera is moving through the Santos. Those mcgarry campaign offices and we see easy an auto there in in the distance in their walking into conference room to meet with Josh the camera angle is low and it's moving with them from a distance and we see like the light from the windows blown out. There's we get a little like doc. j.j Abrams Lens Flare from Desk Lamp and the whole thing feels super cinematic and beautiful. There's a walk in talk. It feels like the West Wing in a very closely connected way but it also feels cinematic and way that's also knew and so that I was like wow okay so this is where ouse- graves it's sort of like both ratcheting things up but also incredibly relaxed in his confidence yeah I agree with their Damn Good Alex Graves and Michael Mayor. We should say for sure yeah. There's a neat thing that they've done with the color to you know in the early elite Santos campaign episodes in New Hampshire. Everything was very very blue. We noticed the look of it changing a lot and here they keep that as way to contrast the shots in the White House like you can see there's a phone call between Josh and toby where it goes from the bluish tones of the Santos mcgarry headquarters and then the sort of warmer tones that were more used to with the West Wing where toby is but in this one shot in a few of the shots. There's like interesting. I don't know how they do it but they're like interesting. Color temperatures happening where like the main part is blue. Then Steph in the background has a sort of like purplish quality. It's really beautiful is what I'm trying to say and complicated like it doesn't just like they just turned up the blue filter. I agree so there's a joke in here that we've I feel like we've heard before respect for the Pau law respect for the law looks like respect for the PA you try riding long hand at fifty miles an hour. I kind of bumped on that but I didn't realize that I'd heard it before yeah. We've had a handwriting misspelling joke before on the show. You may remember. It's just a message about I need to to Mandy about a banana bars. I would hand panda bear. Yes that's a D. and that's an e yeah. Okay well there you go. I didn't quite remember that we visited visited this joke structure before but I bumped down and a little because I felt like they could have done better. I feel like this is one of the ones where they go in the room especially now that they know if you're going to revisit it you got to top. It exactly should have been more something like does that say ramparts or airports Yep. I mean respect for the Pau not great speaking of potentially not funny lines. I really like the way that the episode handles this. I'll be the first one unemployed refrain Vo yes the first time we hear Santos say it in a speech it gets booed and cheered at the same time and it's great me because theoretically it's his campaign. Rally people are are there for him there booing at the idea of him being unemployed and other people are like carrying in support of what he's saying but it does sort of sound like people are doing it didn't sound like killed in the room uh-huh though I think they're trying to express their support for the sentiment or something it's tricky thing to try and elicit a boo from your crowd because if taken out of context at no especially when later he gets told I don't like take the unemployed line and he says that's just a funny line. Isn't it cut to people doing the person who says that she doesn't like the line is Louise's Thornton introduced for the first time played by Janine Garoppolo. Hurry okay the Fabulous Janine Garoppolo she shows up and just kills it in this episode. Yeah I agree. She's pretty great she so great and it just feels like she's been part of the West wing the whole time she fits in so well. I think yeah I absolutely agree. I was love it when somebody he's known primarily for comedic work and is in fact to stand up comic just comes in and just kills a dramatic role yeah as I've said I didn't watch seasons five six and seven but a bunch of it head sort of been spoiled and a lot I kind of knew a lot of what had happened and I did watch a couple of episodes from season seven with the my friends Kevin Claire so I knew a little bit about major plot points but one of the details that I didn't know until I finished the series in advance of US getting to the end of the series is that Janine Garoppolo was on the West Wing that was a new discovery every from me eight months ago and I love Janine Gras and so discovering that she was in the West Wing was really a wonderful surprise. Yeah maybe we should pick up the phone and find out how they came up with the idea to caster. Oh I mean if Eli not to stone to discuss discuss it. Let me send him attacks. Eli We're recording right now. What we see if he'll respond so Janine gras comes in and she plays Louise Thornton Lutheran Aka blue and even just the way that she's introduced is great? She don't on that you said be sure to invite Louise Thornton. I had to talk her into coming should be sure not. This is pretty good setup for for a character. I think that is true. That said there is a slight light problem. I had with this plot in this episode. which is that we get sort of this? You were set up as she's somebody. Josh specifically didn't want in the room then they have this meeting that he predicts just everybody you want to get a slice and the media budget which in fact completely proves to be except for her and then we kind of see him reevaluate and you're like wait a minute. Maybe do need somebody like that and then she makes clear she's is not even really there to be part of it and she walks off and he goes after now. Wait a minute. We need someone like you know. I have no interest this a little bit false to me at the back and forth of both of them like that part of it felt like a TV episode to eh well. I think I'm with you. It felt like it was a little bit quick. I kind of bought Josh's one eighty on it because I think he has been to caught up to really think about it. I take it as him reacting from the gut when he said don't invite her because he just doesn't like her but he's also been hearing from Joey Lucas constantly this episode that he needs hire some heavyweights and there are none around. He says there must be three hundred people on staff now. Surely kids not a single one of these non shavers with the challenge my assumption stand up and animating the decision to tell Ron not to invite Lutheran came separately that was something a decision he'd made previously but I think he's being worked on by Joey Lucas and I think he's being convinced and so then Lou shows up and he's like actually maybe this is the thing you know. He's we've seen the crumbs leading up to him changing his mind. The one that throws me is her changing her mind because it seems like all it takes his for him to say I am asked meet with the next president of the United States it and then she's like well when you put it that way and it's like well. That's not a surprise that I mean you know. They're running for president it well. I agree. I mean to me I don't really by any of the changes of mind especially because of that scene with Joey we we know as soon as we meet Louise that her and especially knowing that I didn't want her in the room. It's an inevitability I feel like Eli maybe a little bit too much real estate to something that is such a clear dramatic inevitabilities in this episode also especially when we get the spoiler of special guest star Janine Garoppolo well. There's also that you're right so even explicitly outside of the episode altogether we kind of know what's happening but then within it. It's a little bit telegraphed. I feel like again. There's one of those times I'm ahead of the show rather be half step behind yeah. I hear you I for sure I think I was so delighted about the idea of Janine Garoppolo joining the show that was like all right. Let's just move it along so we can get there well. I agree with you but I my argument is that they didn't move it along. Oh Yeah I see what you're saying that it took too long to get there. I'm with you get to it since we know happening. We're happy about it and if you're going to take that much time with it I think it has to be something more interesting than like just changed my mind agree like it's not really really. There's not much substance yeah. It's not substantial is one thing that it does besides the plot point of her joining the campaign. It does give us a chance and this is my favorite stuff in the episode. It does just give us a chance to have Josh Lou going going back and forth at each other and that's what I like the most in this episode. I like their dynamic. I love listening to Janine. Garoppolo speak allies dialogue like I said she just feels like she could have always been a part of the West Wing and it's an easy fit while also feeling like something a new yeah and her dynamic with Josh is terrific so just in terms of like the circadian kind of just music of the words. I didn't mind it because just listening to the two of them sort of sing at each other was great fair enough. One thing I won't forgive you lie for is introducing introducing me to the term Daddy's to be daddy of the titular mommy problem. This is just a terrible. I apologize for you. GotTa say Ticha Learn Mommy and the same breath. I'm so sorry the dictator daddy figure well and God right so where where we oh yeah I think we're seven minutes into the episode of this point seven minutes into the episode. The credits actually start. I think this must be maybe this is the latest start to the opening credits interesting. Maybe they sent at the audience boom. The viewership will be rate that I'm no longer in the sequence or maybe they're trying to put put it off as long as positive instead we get extra crab shots. We get more like generic black and white shots of stuff in the place of view and delay they did fill the time I did notice that and there was the first time it occurred to me that hey we've got the space and time for them but exactly click. Why not put you in the how you you just a shot of the three of US share arm-in-arm not pictured right? It must have something to do with then we have to pay for sure. There's no other reason than than a money thing if they show your face at all then I'm sure you get your owed something. I guess what's interesting is within those budget constraints that means. I'm pretty sure that they also can't include you in a previously on <hes>. I bet that's not true but maybe I could be wrong. I feel like there's a little addendum random told his contract saying that they can use your likeness for promotional purposes. Oh then do you think that counts as promotional. I think so yeah interesting I was thinking previously on as part of the episode so exposition news channels on and they let us know that <hes> NASA has made the repairs having made the essential repairs to the space stations laboratory module NASA now expects the astronauts to return home within the next four to five days so you're like okay you can put that Eh ben but that just means we can kind of move away from the actual crisis and just get into the political crisis of it or just get deeper into the political crisis because the West Wing decides they WanNa play this completely above board and as we learned in the last I episode Oliver <unk> recommends that they not try and investigate it internally and so the president goes with it and they announce it that that that's what they're going to do cooperate with Congressional Investigations Yeah which is just killer for the Santos campaign campaign because as we've learned from the West Wing he just need to hear subpoena an investigation and grand jury as many times to just 'cause the impression of impropriety and in a presidential election year with former chief of staff that president on the ticket. There's just no way to get away from the connection between those two things yeah but the big problem and so josh is trying to figure out a way to work this out. He's trying to get toby and C._J.. To find a way through the space shuttle stuff that isn't going to hurt the campaign and they just keep making moves the do the opposite yes and he reaches out to toby and gets hung up upon yeah. This hadn't happened yet. It did feel a little bit like the end of the Obama Administration and the Hillary Clinton Twenty sixteen campaign just I remember as the events were unfolding there how much I kind of surprised by how little the Obama administration sort of doing to even just help help clear things up or say I felt like in an effort to seem objective and like they weren't trying to put their thumb on the scales. They actually ended up creating an imbalance against the Hillary Clinton campaign. Yeah I see what you're saying. I made this analogy allergy before but it was a little bit like when my dad was the coach of my little league team and in an effort to be fair to the other players would never let me play as like dead it is little league and I'm not bad. I think they won't judge harshly occasionally play. That exactly is exactly what it sounds like now. We're GONNA take a quick break and the West Wing weekly is brought to you by squarespace. squarespace is the best way to put your ideas online. We love scarce base so much that we created our site light with them and they host it. It's true it's not even the only squarespace site that I've made the other. One is my website Rishikesh Dot C._o.. If you WANNA make a website for whatever it is you're passionate about go to squarespace dot com slash West Wing and you'll get a free trial. You can check out squarespace for free weight. Do you have to be passionate about something to make a site because now I'm no longer interested. 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That's simplisafe dot com slash west wing and now back to the show. We got a response from Eli there you go. The APP phone works again in real time ally redback. He's at a as a recall we wanted a bad ass. New Campaign staffer for Santos and are casting department presented her. I remember watching some scenes over dramatic work in some indie movie with David Schwimmer. I looked it up. I lay AH movie is Dwayne Hopwood. I don't remember that one. It also stars Judah friedlander about that thirty rock so she had he I I remember watching some scenes of her dramatic work in some movies David Trimmer to see if she could do drama not just comedy. Though of course her work on Larry Sanders could be counted as both she was a perfect blend of tough and fun. I think and fit right in with the cast she was very political. I remember that she used to like to argue about lines. In the show she wants came over to me before a scene to say I have real problem with the philosophy behind this line and I can't remember the line and I thought she was objecting to it as an actor and wanted to talk about changing it and started to say here's why I think your character would say it and she said Oh. I don't WanNA change it. She just wanted to argue about it. That's great. That's been tasked. That's awesome talk to know what it was yeah. He said he loves her and she was great to work with ingrate in the show. That's awesome yeah. I've some good memories of working with her. That will get to when we get up to this episodes. Did you ever go to the Lunar Lounge on the lower side New York back when it was there no sadly I missed that whole era. I've read about it but I myself missed in L._A.. By then already yes this is around the time when I wrote to you and said Hello I'm a stranger. Should I move to L._A.. And you said yes I think you should and then I didn't because too scared and I moved to new I was like should I moved to New Yorker L. A. and you you said I think everything that you WanNa do has to happen in L._A.. I don't know if you've ever even noticed the original P._S.. Which said please move out here and come up with an idea that will put my kid through college that was in the fine print up so you know it was too scary for me to move to L._A.? I moved to New York instead and I lived there for a little while not even a full year but in that time one of the best best things that I did one of the most memorable experiences I had was. I remember going to Luna Lounge. They would have comedy nights on Monday. was you know sort of it was a music club other nights but on Mondays Comedy Night Volley New is that Colin Quinn was hosting and I like Colin Quinn Win and went and I went with my roommates and David Cross showed up and did a surprise set which was incredible Engineering Garoppolo showed up and did a very strange drop in set unexpected that involved doing some kind of the interpretive dance with flashlights and a child child. I don't remember if the child was her child or it was like a niece or something like that but they came in and like ran around the room and dance with flashlights and I just remember thinking it was the coolest thing et like there was a club where just people like that would just show up and do something fun and and just got to be a part of it. You know who's a tiny place fewer than one hundred people in the room. I'm Jealous Jealous that you had that experience and know that the denizens of Luna Lounge included Sarah Silverman Obermann and Jimmy Garoppolo Pat nozzle just amazing people Marc Maron the I think Todd Berry did a set that night as well. That was my first introduction to Todd Barry of gotten some more Eli by the way of course the APP phone. John is a little bit like Pandora's box once you lift that receiver you don't know which is gonNA come out of it. Here we go is Louise's Thornton was an interior decorator that someone recommended to Eli. Here's what he wrote. Louise Thornton was an interior decorator. Someone recommended that I hire around that time and she told me she was too busy to even meet with me but I loved the name. That's funny because my impression is that normally you go out of your way to find a name that is not currently taken yeah. That's what I thought uh-huh to. Here's a moment from the upset that I found funny when Joe he's trying to urge Josh to make some key hires. She says you have to hire. Some heavyweights burn O._G.. Anneli how do they not know that Bruno was working for Vinik. I did have that same thought to like. Yeah there are OPPA. Research is not crack. There's no crack team in place. Yeah I mean like between you know at one point. Josh says give me Vinik schedule of events for the day and he can just get that stuff you know and I know that that's public stuff. Put out by the campaign but there's a certain level of like public disclosure about who works on a campaign that happens. How do they not know this and then okay so there's public disclosure and then yes then there's sort of the spy network that I know must exist between like Oh? I heard this person and Bruno who somebody who's close host to them or was close to them really. I was shocked that they didn't know that Bruno wasn't possibility as was yes. Okay let us talk now for a little bit about the Santos Reserve duty stunt or not stunt. Yes I think I was thrown a little bit as tried to follow the logic between what the decision was about his reserve duty. Let me see if I can break this down for you. Tell me if the sounds right yes so they find out there's a letter this coming to Santos saying that he's being called up for reserve duty shooting and everybody's first instinct is do it and it's GonNa look great and it'll really help with their national security problem where Democrats are always behind the Republicans on national security issues visit a possibility that looked like a stunt. That's okay. He's just doing his duty Judy. Then it turns out well actually he has sometimes postponed his duty for political and personal convenience and so then they have to cancel it because it will look like a stunt and eighty says one again reporting for reserve duty right after Labor Day looking like a gun toting flag-waving phony. That's the reason why he can't do it right right so because the letter will come out. They'll say hey we got this letter. He goes and he does his duty. He'll look like a phony because of the campaign trail and I guess because of the timing of it with with election in November doing that in September seems fake right so then Lou suggests that he actually retired the commission altogether <hes> she says you can't show up after Labor Day. When you've postponed your service five times in thirteen years it looked click the mother of all staged photo-ops and we'll get killed in the press but Santos says for personal reasons he is not gonNA retires commission? You know I didn't have as much as a high school diploma in my Gene Pool that commissions the reason why on this plane I'm not giving it up which I think is great and wonderful sentiment and people should know that and it makes sense that he wants to hold onto it yes and in that moment he saying that he's going to do his duty right now. This is in the conversation that he has with Josh on the plane. They're actually heading heading to fort worth so he can get it out of the way right now if he wants right and Josh's reaction is before anyone in the press gets a chance to take a shot at us. The whole country sees you in uniform and so is this the linchpin of it is it that the the other way people get to comment on him doing it or not doing it before he does it and then he does it and then they make more comments and that we see in the episode. It's still gets called a stunt and it even it looks a little bit as I said. Earlier looks a little bit like a commercial for the military great so it feels a little bit Sunday. I don't know I liked all that. I liked to these sort of lack of a neat Bo wrapped around this particular package like if it usually you'd go out like knowing this was the right decision or or not or how it's GonNa play like. I don't know I thought it was interesting arguments to be made on all sides and then ultimately whether or not it's prudent political move we see the moment of decision from the candidate himself and it is a ethical moment. It's it means something to him. He's not going to do what might be the correct move for his campaign and then Josh season upside to at least you know the president going to get out ahead of it and say this is going to be stunned sure they can make those comments after it happened happened already in the pictures or out but then the pictures are out and maybe those will be more powerful than whatever text accompanies them anyway and the whole thing just put me in mind today like nobody would ever get two hundred so again given the way trump comports himself the idea that the appearance of trying to do something simply for the optics of it the idea that stopping in from doing anything unthinkable so just find it interesting using that these having the conversations and like watching what went into the ultimate decision I agree with you. I think I feel a little bit like what you're feeling about. The hiring of Lou where I just felt like I didn't quite get the the last turn everybody had made these very persuasive arguments about how badly it was gonna play by doing it and it feels like a minor shift to do it without announcing it into do it now as opposed to in September. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it is a dramatic dramatic enough change that make sense that they would all be on board with the idea but I just felt like Louis went as far as to say like retire the Commission but after they do it. It seems like there's doing it. I don't know well I also people. Probably I in a greater more macro percents. I feel like some of this episode is about in part once again Santa's taking control of his own campaign when he does finally installs Lou Thornton at Josh's behest he does it in a way where she's going to answer directly to him and so again he's sort of asserting himself or reasserting himself and I think he also does <hes> with this decision and so people have come down on the various sides of this issue and then once the candidate himself Santa's makes the decision I guess they sort of Fall Mine and put the best spin on it and <hes> supportive yeah okay I buy that. Let Santos be sent us right. Okay Great. We can put that to bed okay and speaking of bed. You're sleepy <hes> <hes> Santos. You're horny. Conjugal visit bed right but I'm wondering a left turn. I would like to withdraw that comment comment. I'd like to also note. That's usually your move when people have left their phone inadvertently in front of you that you go on twitter and you log into account and you tweet. I'm morning. That's you haven't done in a long time though I have to say it's true but I think when we were hanging out for the first time a bunch of especially you know Gush seven years ago that was a move that you made with some frequency and I really I found it very funny. Meanwhile onto the okay sure Santa's is and their hotel. What do you make that little subplot? I think it's unfortunate that it was introduced in an episode that already had the phrase national daddy and Yeah Right. I thought it was strange. It's a little bit I mean it was strange. How catastrophic it seemed <hes> I get that the issue is that they're trying to present him as more than just a pretty face? It's a tabloid headline but I guess I just. I don't know it seems like who's GonNa take issue with it like you have to go one degree further to make it somehow a negative for the campaign like it's on its surface. It's not a big deal. It's only if they're connecting the dots and saying this fills in the picture that he is just he has no substance and nothing that's. It feels like they're making a leap. I traveled to understand they had the whole kind of stray played out first of all so I guess it really did happen okay so josh when a man and woman love each other yeah. I'm GonNa let you take me all the way through like I would like to hear your take on it. Go ahead. I here's my query do they not realize that they broke the bed. They did and they didn't make things right with the hotel or is it not possible. That bed just broke. I really Kinda. Kinda wanted to see the picture because it's like right what happened I mean can you just go. I was sleeping in bed with my wife. Bed collapsed or something or it's just like is it Claude to. I believe the word splinters was used right. Is it like the Tasmanian devils in the room yeah. I don't know it's bad staff work on somebody's part right because you just say hey we bad woodwork on someone else's per yeah and they say look this happened. Lettuce pay for it. We Paul is for the inconvenience like does the owner have to even know who's room. It is like who is in staying in what room well. They probably know which they probably do guys anyway. The whole thing thinks seemed like it's there should be some plausible deniability in there that it didn't seem I agree but it seemed to be super high stakes but it seemed like there could have just put out a cover story that sort of explained it away yeah and I also feel like there should be some plausible pliability ability and then it turns out. It actually plays okay with people. I mean obviously sure I guess you know there's a little explanation there that I before they could establish that he wasn't fact with his wife. There is some suggestion that he was fooling around which busy back in another time would not play as well right for presidential candidate. Yes yes yes these days. It means literally nothing so I can see why that would have been dangerous because once they realize it's all kosher and done in marriage mhm the nation accepts it and you kinda funny quote to the press so I'm going to address this once just this once and that'd be the end of it. Okay no way was that bed still reinforced as if they weren't enough Innuendo innuendo already and the just explicit references already in this episode Liu says one of the problems with this story line is that you haven't anybody in alternative formulation on who he is so he's taking body blow after body trying to there's so many moments in which Steve Carell could have popped in and said she said yeah that's right okay so here's a nitpick that I have a typographic one. Oh the enquirer no actually the jet O- on the side of the jet it says Matt Santos when we see Santos actually at the end of the episode going to do his reserve duty he gets in the jet and it says Matt Santos on side of the jet and then his nickname badger underneath but it goes open quote Badger open quote again what the quotation marks facing the wrong way on the second set. Wow badly done Badgley done <hes>. Maybe that's actually physically nickname is actually quote badger of there's nothing better than the sad of you musing yourself. It's really it's delightful. I love the idea that like actually in this division they don't put quotes around the nicknames but part of his nickname is including and there was some inside joke of one time when he did to open quotes his nickname badger with open quotes on both sides sure exactly that the reason and plausible pliability there it is while we're on small gaffes Bradley. Whitford is the latest in celebrity mispronunciations as he says Ogling. I won't have US odd one his dirty as an accepted pronunciation of the word ogling doing. I've certainly ever heard anybody else say Ogle. It boggles the mind. How did you come up with that? Is something went Ari funny stuff. I have the daddy of nitpicks yes hum at the very end of the episode you know when everybody's sort of feeling good about the outcome of Santos's move you know they're saying yes people are calling it a stunt but everybody's running the footage and they're connecting Santos in his military record and they're presenting method public but at the very end the cameras swings around to a TV M._S._N._B._C. is playing and Vinik is on screen and they say they're communist on national yeah. That's how the episode of ends <hes>. It's sort of like a reminder that like this is not one by any means. There's a Chiron at the bottom of this M._S._n._B._c. where it says U.. N. Send fled team to Bangladesh rather than sins. Yes and I thought well U.. N. stands for United Nations and so maybe they were like oh United Nations send but it is the united part really makes it a singular entity and then I checked on. Here's a headline line from M._S._N._B._C. Bring U._n.. Sends team to investigate Isis <hes> so that sounds better to me that sounds right that sounded better to me to this is around three in the morning last night when and I really should have been going to bed in preparation of US recording but I was just like furiously writing notes and then I saw that and I was like well. Let me look at let me look into this to this is definitely a good use of my time. I think I was watching this at three in the morning to Oh. We could've could've chat data. Did you ever watch T._V.. On the phone with a friend watching the same program no but my friend Jeff Bernstein when we were in maybe fifth grade would call me and read me Mad libs. Oh Man Josh that reminds joins me. I meant to bring this up to you hear that mad magazine is shutting down. Yes that that one that was like an Arrow to the heart usually these things about Oh. This thing's going away. It's meant so much to me. I'm always like yeah whatever but this one hurts me. I definitely me a big part of my childhood and I'm sure mad magazine and it's authors illustrators were part of whatever performed my comic outlook and as you probably know being part of magazines take on on sports night was a huge that might have been more my career actually peaked and I bought the original art for Mad magazine artist is Ray Alma. That's great so yeah very very sad to see mad magazine. Go Yeah Okay back to the third box Trivia Trivia via in this episode. Josh says to that Group of Media Consultancy says thank you all for coming to this high level strategy meeting. This is probably the greatest assemblage of democratic talent since the last Jedi Barlett dined alone. AH The they'll be cherry laps but that line is reference to J._F._k.. He said to Nobel Prize winners at the White House he said I think this is the most extraordinary collection of talent human knowledge that has ever gathered together at the White House with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone nice and again Joe Glucose was the only person who have that actually a bunch of people just booed they would now and he said I think it was just a funny light. Jefferson would have gotten booze now. was he a drinker. Here's a slave holder. Here's another little nitpick Margaret says to C._J.. That Greg Brock wants a few minutes. This is what while they're talking about a working dinner with the Norwegian delegation or something like that but c. j. says tell him now in Norwegian if you have to that would be no sq.. It's not it's not it's not Norwegian for no is nee well. I think she was making a joke. Are you suggesting that was just poor research. I guess the joke part of it was lost on me because it wasn't funny. I agree you're right. You're right there. It's it's an open quote joke up and AH I think referencing bad quotes is going to make me laugh every so that was just a joke. I think I like Sam robards performance in this episode. Yeah I mean Greg. Brock is going to go to jail right and there's something I don't know sweetly moving about the way he plays that scene. He can't even quite look at C._J.. He's kind of in profile interns and remains in profile and it's like he can. He's just uh and he's there just to say it out loud. He refused to stay the contempt at least eighteen months. I have to appeal from behind bars. You don't have to worry about your call she for a while. I don't know what he wants from a particularly other than to just share this piece of information formation yeah it feels a little bit like there is some rage there <hes> that professional courtesy is not allowing to actually be expressed but I think you know it's. He's waiting for C._J.. Just to tell her that and I feel like it's just letting her know that these are the consequences of <hes> everything that's happened and it just put more pressure on the White House to get this thing resolved. Although that said to my surprise she releases him she says name you're sore. I know I mean that that actually <hes> that got a little mini gas from. I know it felt like we got a crack in C._J.'s professionalism one. You know that as press secretary you know we know that she loves the reporters even the ones that give her a hard time. She loves the reporters in the room and it felt like we got that C._J.. Again now that moment made me wonder whether C._J.. Herself is the leaker and that's why she's saying go ahead name research the same we she says to Margaret. I just want you to tell the truth right. Margaret seems to be a little concerned that she needs to protect C._J.. Yes and she says I just wanted to tell the truth and then we get this from rock and she says look name your source so it seems a little bit as if she might be saying I'm ready for this. I'm ready to take the fall is another example of the show kind of pointing us towards the idea that C._j.. Is Responsible for the leak yes when they talk about the League they'll cut to C._J.. And things like that here it feels like she's she's offering to fall on the sword and that flashing Chiron C._J.. Is the leak Oh yeah on M._S._N._B._C. so weird and grammatically phrased incorrectly right. Lou is really heavy with the cult references in this episode she invokes Jonestown and she tells you know Josh Stop Drinking the kool-aid and she also says she says I'm not a cultist like us. The Bartlett he said and I'm not a Santos Easter I am completely untethered to your crazy cult of personality also known as she's laying into him with the stuff no kidding yes frequently people will say make the reference to drink in the kool-aid and I awesome as wonder where they realize how grim reference it really is but here she mentions Jonestown and then use employs the phrase. I'm like wow so that's she's really going in yeah some stark images. I like this a little bit of dialogue just this <hes> exchange between Lean Josh and ned the press right about the security league. We want him to worried about the economy. Let's show little leg by leg. You mean targeted tax credits. Preferably index inflation was last time you went on a date. I WanNa talk about that whole back and forth great it dialogue but yeah you know another thing that I really like about Lou is she tells Josh She's not on the job or anything like that but she just gives them piece of advice. She's telling him why she doesn't want to be part of the team because he's screwing things up and she says Santos was serving in the Gulf. Vinick was serving himself Chardonnay that Santos is still serving the reserves congressman. He's been in the Senate for like ninety years who is practically born in a committee hearing if you're not using the phrase Beltway Arnie in every press release Joshua though we're not going negative but what I love about her is that she she is so internally consistent and believes in what she's saying threat the rest of the episode. She only calls Arnie Vinik Beltway. Arnie knows that good catch she uses the phrase two more times. It's something you can have to answer for yourself because right right now. Beltway Arnie's kicking you all over the electoral map the White House. She says that to Santos when they have their meeting and then she says it against Josh she says finger gets beltway aren't even who never served in who flipped and flowers from tested. I love that it's a great detail good on her in good on Eli that's great because she's just got an edge that we don't see that often on this series. She's kind of mean. She's got a bit of a jab for Ned calling him elmer fudd junior wow she's actually just kind of mean and I love. Yes yeah one more for the Margaret Museum just to wrap up on this sure C._J.. Is asking for something better than just little flags for the bill signing for the Fisheries Bill Arts thinking about what they can do besides little flags and the C._n._N.'s with using and little fish that moment nailed it. It's good yeah all right fantastic but that doesn't for another episode of the West Wing Weekly Yeah thanks for listening and let us know what you thought of this episode either the West Wing episode or the Westbound Weekly episode by the owner comment on our facebook page or our website the westbound weekly dot com or he can tweet at us at Western weekly Ron Instagram all kinds of places yeah follow us on twitter already. It's been four years. What are you waiting for your missing gold? The West Wing weekly remains a proud member of radio topi collection of fabulous cutting edge podcasts about which you can learn more at Radio Toby Dot F._M.. Thanks to our production team Zach macneice Margaret Miller and Nick Song <hes> thanks to Eli Attie for responding so promptly to the at phone. It's fantastic you can follow Eli Attie at Eli Attie. He's the best okay okay. What's next next? I you know I think the biggest problem is our internal speeds on how we say what's next. I think you say it more measured than I do interesting. Let's try that again. I'll try and go at your speed. I'll meet you halfway one two three.

Josh Lou Matt Santos West Wing Eli Attie Alex Graves Louise Thornton West Wing US president Joe Glucose Paul Gauguin Janine Garoppolo West Wing Weekly squarespace director John Wells toby West League Vinik
Willem Dafoe's starry, starry turn as Vincent van Gogh

The Frame

16:31 min | 2 years ago

Willem Dafoe's starry, starry turn as Vincent van Gogh

"From the Mon broadcast center at KP. See this is the frame, I'm John horn. And thanks for joining us during our fall. Membership drive today on the show we have a conversation with actor will Afo. He's now starring in a new movie called at attorneys gape to folk plays Vincent Van Gogh toward the end of his life. The movie is directed and co written by the artist and filmmaker Julian Schnabel, and it's not all that interested in Van Gogh's mental health instead at attorneys gate is focused on Van Gogh's painting. How the Dutch artists all light and color and texture. It's also about Van Gogh's friendship with a French painter Paul Gauguin who's played in the film by Oscar Isaac when Willem Dafoe join me in the studio at KPCC early this week, I asked as I always do at the start of an interview if his mobile phone was turned off. I don't carry him for you. Congratulations radical. That's good. You can spend more time talking reading scene. Seen as opposed to looking looking at people. Yeah. Sounds like good training for playing a painter. Yes. I wanna ask you about Willem. Welcome to the show. I should welcome. Thanks. Sure. I wanna ask you about the shooting of this film. Because in watching it, I imagined there are a lot of early mornings and late evenings. Because the way that this. Film captures light is extrordinary. And I wonder what that was like on a given day because the light in this film is without equal. Right. I think that's well observed and light is important one of the first things I had to learn how to paint for this just practically and also as a key to the character. And the first thing I learned was concept of painting, the light, and then from in terms of the DP, and and Julian composing things nature was, you know, a big character in this. It kind of told us what to do it it it played a part in the shooting of this film, where did you shoot this film? And was it. Close to where Van Gogh painted close. It was all the places we really it was like a little roadmap of where he was. I mean, some places literally San Romy we weren't shooting in the very bad because that's like been turned into a museum. But that still functions as as a hospital part of it's a museum part of its hospital. But the trees the grounds then the same some of the landscapes, they're recognizable. You can almost approximate his perspective of where he painted. And then, of course, Paris and then over sir Woz where he's buried and where he was at toward the end of his life actors talk about how maybe putting on a pair of shoes or some piece of word robe or a prop helps them understand a character in this story. Did you start seeing the world differently? Do you start seeing it as a painter which isn't rely? On a prop or a piece of costume? Yes. It's it's related to an activity that you learn, you know, and I learned how to paint and Julian was very good and generous teacher he taught me how to see differently. And of course, I was eager to make that leap to see a new way. And it had a lot to do with white. And also had a lot to do with making marks and thinking of color talking to each other colored defined in relationship to each other. But the marks were very important because you really see when you're painting. A series of marks. They start talking to each other. And then they create something that you never could have supposed. I Van Gogh used to talk about great painting is not painting things as they are. But as you see them, which I thought is interesting when you are learning how to paint are you learning how to paint as Willem Dafoe who is then going to paint Aspen and go I'm I'm not making those distinctions. I mean, that's a perfectly good question. But I'm not that's that's getting that's going down a different road. I'm just trying to -ccomplish the task and the task is yes for Sam getting familiar with the materials, I'm learning how to show hold brush. I'm learning how where to organize my paints, but above all out look at things. I mean, I remember one day Julian we were out and he wanted me to paint a Cyprus tree. And I try to paint the Cyprus straight. And he was like, whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. What look you see that dark spot. You see that yellow? He started pointing these things out to me. And I started see them. He's it. We'll do that something about you. You rush to get not the reality of it. But they almost like the signifier, you know, we're so trained to have to reproduce things or have things function. If we see a tree we wanna tree, but really what he was encouraging mid to do is see everything that that tree is it comes together in the form of a tree. But it's really. Shapes colors in light. And that's what you're dealing with. And when you start to think like that you start to look at everything differently. And of course, I'm not sustaining that all the time. But in the context of our scenarios and being Vincent Van Gogh in making this movie, you're encouraging that kind of thinking, and of course, the you're able to read his letters which are quite sincere and quite clear, and quite inspirational and with the physical practice of painting. Then you have a key into what he's talking about. And before you know, it you're talking and thinking in a way that you've never thought before. So who is that? That's Vincent Van Gogh. That's my Vincent Van Gogh. Does that happen in a moment you wake up one day? And you've you think you've got it. Isn't it a piffle or a process? Listen, I can only talk about that in retrospect, right because it's over. But in the middle of your in the middle of it. But you're also aided by the fact that you go to location. My wife wasn't with me. I was living like a monk. I was in the actual places in our it was brutal cold Lexcen. Yeah. Brutally cold. It's a whole world. You know, I'm leaving myself behind because I have very few things to support who I am normally one of the things that is noticeable about this film is that it feels observed and that the way that Ben wa del home shoots it, it's not only handheld, but it's very close. The camera looks like it's inches away from your face. It is what does that give you that intimacy? The fact that it feels that the camera is observing you as character and not just reciting dialogue could just walk into a field. I'm I'm feeling the camera. But I'm also forgetting the camera. It's with me. It's a part of me. I'm part of him. He's a part of me. We really. Got to a point. And I can say that about Julian too. We were all the same person. And you can't say that about all movies. But I felt like that was true in this. Coming up Willem Dafoe is less concerned with how Van Gogh died than with what he did while he was still alive. KABC podcast supporters include UCLA's center for the art of performance presenting L A's uncaring, celebrating twenty five years with this one time only evening of live comedy music and ever before seeing footage from the vault featuring deathly pitas. Julia swinging Janine Garoppolo Bob Odenkirk her Greg Barron, and Jill Solloway, mostly Maria Bamford, Julie Goldman Byron Bowers and surprise guests tickets at capita, UCLA dot EDU. Welcome back to the frame. I'm John horn. Thanks for joining us today. I'm talking with Willem Dafoe. He plays Vincent Van Gogh in the new movie at attorneys gave it was directed by the filmmaker and artist Julian Schnabel who also taught to fo- how to paint for the movie, unlike some other films about Van Gogh at attorneys gate isn't narrowly focused on the painters, mental health or lack of recognition of his artwork in his lifetime. Instead it explores his painting and how he saw the world in one scene Van Gogh is painting what would turn out to be one of his most famous portrait's. It's of his physician who treated him toward the end of his life. Dr Paul gush. Why do you pay? Parents. Fact to stop thinking. The of meditation. When I paint, I stopped thinking about what? Thinking. Feel. I'm a part of everything outside inside of me. When he says he he likes to paint because he stops thinking that's not sane thinkings bad. But a lot of his thinking is preoccupied with his failures with this social problems with his fear of his mental health. But when he's painting. He's connected to something. He's in movement. He finds what's attornal, and what's you know, temporal. And that is something that I relate to as a performer when you're doing a gesture, and you're not thinking what the gesture means or whether you're doing well, you're really inhabiting. The gesture that's when you're alive, you disappear into something greater than yourself so much modern understanding Van Gogh is kind of drawn along capitalistic lines. He didn't sell a painting when he was alive. He wasn't considered as excess because he didn't sell anything. And there's a great moment in the film where Van Gogh was talking to a. Priest played by Mads Mikkelsen. And he says God may be a painter for people who aren't born yet. The beautiful line. But it's also about the artist judging himself Van Gogh knows he's a good painter. I mean Gauguin tells them the same he knows he's good. He has his doubts. But he knows he has some e feels this vision that he wants to share and he's prolific. He's painting so much. He's connected. And that's not our invention. I mean, that's he painted a painting day toward the end of his life pretty much and also his letters show. How connected he was. So even if he wasn't getting money, even if he wasn't being recognized was there a satisfaction. As an artist that he was getting that may be an actor can understand. Do you start thinking about how we judge our own work as artists today against false metrics box office and awards while you don't because you know, you know, that things shift and in a similar way, we know even in my lifetime are movies that were total. Duds when they came out that have stood the test of time and had I've become important and appreciated later, and the the opposite is true as well things that we're huge success fade. You know, because it's always a convergence of many things that. Conspired to put value on on something as subjective as an entertainment or a piece of art. So is there a early sunflowers in your rear, the painting that nobody wanted to buy and you look why didn't people like that? It was really good work. I mean seriously performance that people like maybe they didn't pay attention to like that was one of my better paintings. But I don't have those kinds of judgments, but I do know listen for the experience there's movies that I enjoy that. I feel like they didn't get their Dane court or they weren't they weren't appreciated and there's other movies where I think and people love them. So good. Yeah. So it's not like I don't have opinions. I do and it's not like I don't have favorites. But I don't I don't lay them because I don't learn anything from those kind of judgment because I'm always trying to think about what I'm doing. And yes yourself critical but not self critical in intimidating the reception yourself critical in what is happening. How present you are how engaged you are whether you're distracted whether you're being corrupted. You know, I'm forever mindful of corruption, you know, I've seen it many times some actors get better some actors get worse, and they get worse because of certain corruptions, and how do you guard against that? Sit yourself down and slap yourself. I don't know just be. There's not a moral judgment. And in when I even hear myself talk. Now when I say batter where it's his I feel a little ridiculous. But I think it's a it's a personality thing, you know, you go to the sweet spot you go to the spot where you feel helpful or useful or turned on. Or you're part of you know, it's not. It's not a game of doing this to get that. It's doing this to do this. That's what I try to keep returning to one of the things that this film seems very intentional about as it ends is not giving the audience, easy answers. This is going to be a mystery. And it does feel that the point of view of this movie is that Van Gogh was really alive and wanted to continue to be alive and wanted to continue to paint. Yes. I think that's true. Whether that's fact who knows? You know, certain events of his life are debatable history does ally. It depends who's writing right? We know that but toward the end of his life. It's generally considered a suicide, but there's evidence that maybe he wasn't. And there are many curious things, including the fact that he started to be recognized. He wrote a very upbeat letter to his brother the day that he was shot or shot himself, depending on your point of view. All that's in the mix. But in a funny way, that's not what the movie's about because the guy died. That's what's essential. And it really doesn't matter in a funny way. At least to me, I can only speak for myself. I guess doesn't matter so much how he died this movie deals more with. His painting and his approach to life and work. Okay. Willem Dafoe plays. Vincent Van Gogh in the new movie at attorneys gate. It opens in theaters on November sixteenth. That's it for the frame for today. You can subscribe to the frame podcast wherever you like to listen can also find some of our stories on Elliot's. That's L A I S T dot com of John Horne. Thanks for listening and thank you for supporting KPCC during our fall membership drive. I'll see you tomorrow.

Vincent Van Gogh Willem Dafoe Julian Schnabel Vincent Van Gogh John horn Paul Gauguin Mon KPCC KPCC Oscar Isaac Mads Mikkelsen San Romy Sam Paris John Horne sir Woz Dr Paul gush Elliot UCLA
Vincent van Gogh:  Bloody Sunday | The Ear

Giants of History

29:35 min | 10 months ago

Vincent van Gogh: Bloody Sunday | The Ear

"A. On the night of December twenty, third eighteen, Eighty, eight. An event occurred in the upstairs bedroom of a small yellow house in the south of France that would become one of the most famous stories in all of art history. But for his famous as this event has since become. The details of that Sunday night as well as what exactly occurred that led van Gogh to walk up those stairs just two days before Christmas and pull out his straight razor. That part of the story is unknown to most. But not for long. Now, I'm not sure if it's the same thing now. But if my time in college any indicator, this stuff transcends generations. When I was in college and I should say here that this was in the late nineties early, two thousands at the University of Florida if there are any gators or gator grads out there listening. It really didn't matter who's dorm room or who's apartment you walked into. You could always count on seeing the same posters and the same pictures on the wall for the most part my place included. Walking into someone's dorm room, you would usually at least see one Salvador Dali painting sometimes to. And generally since now I know the names of these paintings, it was either melting watch or persistence of memory, both of which are of clocks or stop watches that are melting and draped over tree branches and table sides. And then on another wall, you might see a pink floyd poster or a sublime poster. Then somewhere else you might see the picture of John Belushi from animal, house wearing the classic sweater that just says college across it. But then inevitably somewhere in the dorm room or the apartment, you would see a print of Vincent Van Gogh's work. And, the print was either of his painting called starry night or of cafe terrace at night. Those were generally the two that you would see. But. Then every time I saw them whether in a passing glance, earn some focus study the same thought or the same vision would always come to my head. I would see van Goghs face with his red hair combed back and his red beard and his intense Pale blue eyes just staring out from behind the painting and all I could think about when I saw him was and it was almost like I was talking to him too. I would think. Vincent You Psycho. Why on Earth, did you cut off your ear and give it to a prostitute as a gift? And that thought has bounced around in my head for many years. And it turns out that most of what I thought occurred on that night was not exactly correct. And so finally, I wanted to know the real story behind this famous event. And, that my friends was the genesis of this episode. Most people don't know this. In all honesty, most people don't know when to place the event. They just know that at some point in his life Vincent Van Gogh Cut off part of his ear. Some people think it was as holier. To place it for you though. The event occurred at the very end of his life about eighteen months to be exact before he committed suicide. And his life wasn't a very long life either van Gogh was just thirty seven years old when he walked into that field in France, pulled out the gun and pointed it at his chest. And for the vast majority of that thirty, seven years on Earth Van Gogh epitomized the idea of the tortured artist. In fact, if you simply google the term tortured artist, which we've all heard before van Gogh's picture is the first one that you'll see. And here's something else most people don't know even though Van Goghs life was relatively short his productivity from a painting standpoint was incredible. Put it this way. Van Gogh didn't really start painting with any serious consistency till as late twenties I think it was twenty eight to be precise if my review of his catalog is accurate. Before that he spent time as an art dealer and then a Protestant missionary all the while dabbling with the idea of becoming an artist himself. And then finally at the age of twenty eight, he went for it. So, if van Goghs started painting when he was twenty eight and then died at thirty seven. Let's call US productivity period about a decade long. And it is said again, if my reviews catalog is correct that Van Gogh produced around nine hundred oil paintings during that decade of work not to mention the other thousand plus drawings and such that he also put forward. But focusing on the nine hundred paintings as that's where his major contribution to art was and what he is known for. Of those nine hundred or so paintings a substantial portion of them were completed in the last two to three years of his life with nearly all of his most famous and his most valuable paintings today being produced during that last two to three years of his life and this includes starry night sunflowers cafe terrace at night starry night over the Rhone Bedroom Arl and many of his most famous self portrait S-. And perhaps, there is some connection here and in my opinion for what it's worth their most certainly is that the most explosive period in his life from painting standpoint is also the most chaotic and tumultuous part of his personal life. But the underlying theme of Van Gogh's entire existence was one of mental suffering in some form or another. It is well known that he suffered from depression on and off for most of his life compounding this issue was the fact that van? Gogh was often broke. He drank quite a bit and he generally didn't take good care of themselves physically. And not that health and wellness was a hot topic back then but we certainly know from our vantage point today that all of that plays a part in one's mental stability and overall perspective on life. But in the last few years of his life, his depression, his feelings of loneliness, the poverty that he often felt both emotionally, and economically all of that came upon him full bore. And, it was during this time period specifically in eighteen eighty, eight that van. Gogh. Moved from Paris we had been living and working to arl a small city and commune in the south of France. Go had for a long time just like pretty much. Every other artists who's ever lived dreamed of living and working in his own peaceful studio were other artists could come and work alongside him. Essentially, he envisioned an artist commune where established and aspiring artists could come together focus on their work and be in the company of each other pushing and inspiring each other to elevate their work to new levels of creativity and artistry. and. In late April of eighteen, eighty eight after his relationship with the landlord of the hotel coral the place where Van Gogh was then living in. Arl- after this relationship reached its breaking point van, Gogh stormed out in search of a new home. And it was then that he found the little piece of artists, heaven that he had long been looking for. Letting, author Steven Nathe and Gregory White Smith pick it up here as their book on Van Gogh is fantastic and it's incredibly comprehensive. They wrote a Van Gogh finding his little piece of Art Paradise in oral quote. Only a few blocks north of the hotel coral on the far side of a public park that he had passed often on his way to the countryside, he saw a dilapidated house. It was painted Yalo. and quote. Vincent. Van Gogh. On that day had just laid eyes on the House that he would one day make famous and the house would simply become known as the Yellow House. And that is where our story today really begins. Now let me just set the scene of what this house and its surroundings were actually like you can get an idea of what van Goghs idea of heaven was. I The neighborhood and again leading authors Nathan, and Smith take this one on as they captured. Well, quote. The neighborhood discouraged sore tease at any hour. The Abutting Hotel and all night cafe two doors down this. Revelers, drunks and transients day and night. On the Parkside, a few scrawny trees offered only a lace of shade from the relentless Sun but no relief from the choking dust. At night dark figures rustled and moaned in the bushes overflow sexual traffic from the Brothel district just on the other side of the park. and quote. So this sounds like an interesting place to spend some time and adding to this picture was a train station nearby which was noisy and disruptive with its tracks passing the Yellow House just about a hundred feet away. and. With the House that close to train tracks can simply imagine the noise and the commotion that was ever present in the background. And the house itself was really no better when Van Gogh founded. It was as we said, fairly run down with faded paint and stucco peeling, and the is a mess. And there was one large room downstairs alongside the kitchen and two small bedrooms upstairs and the House essentially was just walls and a roof. I. Mean there were no elements of comfort at all. It was cold in the winter. It was hot as hell in the summer it had no electricity. It had no heat. and. It had no bathrooms and that is the real killer there. If van Gogh or anyone else visiting needed to use the restroom, they had to go next store to the hotel to use the public toilets which were set to be squalid and extremely disgusting. So this is not exactly my idea of heaven but to Van Gogh. Ever wanted. Van Gogh. Himself wrote of the place quote in this meaning the House and surroundings I can breathe meditate and paint I feel that I can make something lasting out of it. and quote. nathe and Smith. Add to this when they write quote Vincent Cy. Garden of Eden where the Greenery was lush and the sky overhead always quote intensely blue as van Gogh himself described it. Van Gogh wrote to family members telling them that he had thought the park with the prostitutes in the bushes was delightful and that he enjoyed watching the sunrise through his windows in the morning from what he could also see what he called a pretty public garden. And quoted. Again, this speaks to the way that Van Goghs saw the world he saw beauty in places that others didn't or couldn't. And as soon as Van Gogh sign the lease where rent was a pittance by the way at just fifteen francs a month or about seventy five dollars a month in today's dollars based on the conversions that I saw. As soon, as he signed the lease, he went to work fixing the place up a bit. And the most famous piece of that rehabilitation was the coat of paint that he applied to the exterior and the. Interior walls. Van Go refer to this coat of paint as quote the yellow color of fresh butter. and quote. He then painted the shutters of the House Green to set off a nice contrast. And just as soon as the place was ready, Van Gogh vocalized the next step in his plans for the yellow. House. Stayed in quote. I could quite well share the new studio with someone. Perhaps Gauguin will come south. and quote. Now again here is obviously referring to the now famous French painter Paul Gauguin. Now Gauguin. Took just like van, Gogh would for the most part be unappreciated while he was alive. But his work would eventually become some of the most valuable and sought after pieces in the art world with one of his painting selling for close to three hundred, million dollars in twenty fifteen making it the most expensive painting ever sold for a time. And it should be noted that Gauguin was also a major influence on Pablo Picasso. But returning to our story of Van Gogh and again. Van Gogh and go Gan had met in Paris, a year earlier in eighteen, eighty seven and they had met at an art exhibition that Van Gogh himself had organized. A hundred pieces of Van Gogh's work alongside a few other artists was displayed at this exhibition and Gauguin attended. Gauguin had never seen van Gogh's work before and vice versa. But the two eventually connected after the exhibition and they decided to exchange paintings and potentially work together at some point. And Van Gogh's brother Theo also bought some of Gauguin's pieces further solidifying his connection to Van Gogh, and their future plans. and. So finally following up on their plans to work together in the fall of eighteen, eighty eight. Paul Gauguin moved to Arl and into the Yellow House with Van Gogh. But. UNBEKNOWNST to the two of them. This was a recipe for disaster. And here again is where our story starts to pick up steam. The reasons they're working together was a recipe for disaster are quite simple. I Van Gogh had been looking for a partner to paint alongside were the two would inspire each other and elevate each other's work as we said. Gauguin sought things very differently. Authors, Nathan and Smith St this difference well when they wrote the following passage quote. Vincent saw a Brotherhood Gauguin saw a contest. I have a need for struggle. He meaning Gauguin announced before arriving using a French term La loot for the competition of wills that Gauguin saw in every exchange whether with swords, fists, words, or images. I slash away blow by blow. and quote. And Gauguin was known to use words like this as he himself was established swordsman fencer and boxer. So. There was reason number one the two men saw this time working together differently again, Van Gogh saw a hood and Gauguin saw a contest. The second reason for the disaster that was to come was sexual in nature. Van Gogh himself at this time reports to have been impotent. And just translating that means he was unable to have sex with women due to his inability to keep an erection. Now, Van Gogh himself blamed this issue on aging stating quote I, am getting older and uglier than my interest demands and quote. The truth behind his impotence was most likely syphilis picked up somewhere along the line after years and years of sleeping with prostitutes. Go Gan on the other hand although a few years older than Van Gogh was still very active sexually seducing numerous women in and around Arl that Van Gogh himself had dreamed of taking to bed including the beautiful marija no the wife of the owner of the cafe that the Yellow House was next to. And both men actually painted her but only one of them reportedly slept with her. Gauguin. And the third primary reason amongst many others that resulted in the two men's relationship being destined for disaster. Was Commercial. Van Gogh's work which he consistently sent to his brother Theo in. Paris did not sell. Gauguin's work on the other hand did sell and consistently provided Gauguin with a decent income in oral while Van Gogh. Himself had very little money and always complained of the poverty that he suffered under always having to rely on his brother Theo to send him money so that he could get by. So for these three primary reasons, those being one van Gogh and gauguin seeing their time together differently one as a partnership the others a contest to Gauguin's sexual success and three Gauguin's commercial success as well. These three reasons and a host of others as we said. All of this led to the quick deterioration of the two men's relationship, and after only about nine weeks living and working together. Their relationship broke down completely. So again after only nine weeks the relationship was breaking down. It should be noted that Gauguin had planned on spending at least a year there. But the two men began arguing every day van Gogh calling they're fighting quote terribly electric and stating that they argued quote until our nerves were strained to the point of stifling all human warmth and quote. And Gauguin also felt the same way writing to theo again van Gogh's brother quote. Vincent and I absolutely cannot live side-by-side any longer without friction because of the incompatibility of our temperaments and because he and I both need tranquility for our work. He's a man of remarkable intelligence whom I hold in great esteem and leave with regret. But I repeat it is necessary that I leave. and quote. And on the night of December, twenty, third eighteen, Eighty, eight, their relationship came to a bloody and. It was a Sunday and the prior few days had been a perfect storm for the two men. The horrendous weather that was in the area at this time had forced both men to remain in the Yellow House together day and night with no escape from each other. Gauguin seeing van, Gogh falling deeper and deeper into his own troubled mind and madness started to actually worry for his own safety. Authors Nathan Smith Right Quote Gauguin finally convinced of his hosts quote true madness worried that at any moment a quote fatal and tragic attack might imperil his own safety especially at night when Vincent roam the House Menacingly. and quote. And then go Gan continues writing quote I have been living with my nerves on edge and quote So, clearly here we see Gauguin becoming quite concerned about the whole situation. So. Finally, that Sunday evening again, December twenty, third eighteen, eighty eight. Gauguin had enough. He simply got up and he walked out the door of the Yellow House. Now nobody knows if he was actually leaving for good in that moment or simply taking a walk. Nathe and Smith put forward that perhaps Gauguin did just leave to take a walk or to go get a drink at a nearby cafe or maybe he was making his way over to the brothels that again were just on the other side of the park. Again nobody knows for sure. But a NEAT little detail per the author's research that came out of this exchange with the two men was that just before Gauguin walked out of the house. That evening it's reported that Gauguin and Van Gogh were arguing about a Jack, the ripper story that they had both recently read in the paper. But outside of that, the facts remain that Gauguin got up and walked out. And soon, after Van Gogh went running after him. Now Gimme was in the park by the time that Van Gogh caught up to him. And Gauguin wrote about this a few days later when he penned a letter to a friend stating quote Vincent Ranch after me, I turned around free had been very strange recently and I did not trust him. and quote. And Gauguin also confirmed the following details. Van Gogh asked him point blank in the park if he was leaving. Gauguin replied matter of factly that he was. Van Gogh then silently pulled out a piece of the newspaper that he had torn off and he handed it to Gauguin. And whether what was on the torn paper related to the Jack The ripper story, I couldn't determine but the paper simply read the following line and it's in French which I'll murder but I'm GonNa try it anyway the paper read the Merkley a appealing. Translated from French means, the murderer has fled. Gauguin read the line then around. And walked away. And Van Gogh is said to have turned in the opposite direction and ran. The two men would never see each other again. Now where Van Gogh ran off to we don't know for sure but it agreed upon that at some point in a fit of madness and potentially drunkenness as well. Van Gogh returned home to his bedroom. Now. While there wasn't a bathroom in the house, there was a wash stand in his room where he can wash his face and his hands and comas hair and shave his face when and if he decided to. So of course that meant that there was a razor nearby. And for this next part of the story, I'm simply going to read the passage that Nathe and Smith put forward in their book Van Gogh, the life. They wrote of this moment that on that night when Vincent was back in the yellow house in his bedroom staring at himself in the mirror above his wash stand quote. Vincent picked up the straight razor that lay on the wash stand and opened it. He grabbed the criminals ear meaning his own. And pulled at the Loeb as hard as he could. He brought his arm across his face and slashed at the offending flesh. The skin cut easily but the rubbery gristle of cartilage demanded either savagery or persistence before the flesh between his fingers came loose. By then his arm was covered in blood. and quote. And for those of you wondering it was part of his left ear that he cut off even though in some portrait's that he did after this event, it appears that his right ear that's bandaged. After this speculated as no one. was there. Thus nobody knows for sure. That, Vincent. Walk through the House looking for towels or something that he could use to help stop the bleeding. Nathan and Smith imagined drops of blood being left all over the house as Van Gogh scoured the. House for the towels. After this, he must have wrapped a bandage around the wound and his head and perhaps put on his beret to secure the bandage further. He then took the piece of his ear that he had cut off. He washed the blood off of it and then wrapped the piece of flesh in newspaper. From there. He walked out of the Yellow House and went off in search of Gauguin. And of course, the first place that Van Gogh tried was gauguin's favourite brothel. Nathan Smith again, pick it up here writing that. Once he arrived at the brothel quote, Vincent asked to see Gabby the gnome Datca of a woman named Rachel and quote. and. GNOME do theater again the French that I'm struggling with is translated into theater name. And, this woman Gabby is reported to have been Gauguin's very favorite prostitute in all of ARL. But. Given goghs appearance again, madness in his is most likely a bloody bandage wrapped around his head. The quote brothel-keeper would not let van Gogh Pass into the rooms of the brothel to look for Gauguin. So van Gogh hoping this brothel-keeper would relay all of this to Gauguin for him. He left the piece of his ear wrapped in the newspaper with the brothel-keeper along with this cryptic message. Remember me. After that night. Vincent Van Gogh spent months being treated in a hospital in Arl-. Before finally allowing himself to be committed to an asylum in Saint Remedy provence. The psychiatric institutions name was Saint Paul Demain Soul and Van Gogh would spend just over a year there. During that time period Van Gogh would produce a hundred and forty two paintings or about one painting every two and a half days, and it would be in the asylum in Saint Remmy that Van Gogh would produce one of his most famous paintings if not the most famous painting that he ever put on a canvas. The masterpiece that is starry night. One of the paintings that I saw on countless dorm room walls back in college. And what I didn't know then was that the scene Van Gogh had painted in starry night. Was the view from his window while he was in the asylum in Saint Remmy. Even, though Van Gogh was committed at this time and living in an asylum. He still saw the beauty of the world when he looked out of his window. Sadly while Vincent Van Gogh was alive only one painting of his was ever sold. And that painting was called the Red Vineyard and it was sold for four hundred francs or roughly two thousand dollars in today's money. Just a few months before van? Gogh. died in eighteen ninety and yes, you heard that right? Vincent Van Gogh sold only one painting during his lifetime. I wonder how he would feel if he knew that today of the hundred most valuable paintings in world history. Nine of them belong to him. And the collective value of those nine paintings is estimated to be. Over nine hundred, million dollars.

van Gogh Paul Gauguin van Goghs Earth Van Gogh Yellow House van Vincent Gogh Nathan Smith Brotherhood Gauguin Gauguin France Arl Paris Steven Nathe Smith John Belushi Salvador Dali
From the Archives: Van Gogh

The Art Newspaper Weekly

49:46 min | 1 year ago

From the Archives: Van Gogh

"The newspaper Put coasties to you in association with bonhams auctioneers in seventeen ninety three to find out more visit bottoms dot com. Hello it's been Lewke as the newspaper podcast on summer break but rather than leave you with a gaping void. We thought we'd spend the next few weeks looking back over the couple of hundred interviews and discussions. We've done over the last two years and for want of a better word. He writes the weekly podcast from the archive this week. It's all about Vincent Van Gough to discussions about recent books both written by the newspaper's London correspondent Martin Bailey this first conversation features me to Martin and another Martin Martin Gifford the critic and biography of Freud Hope Knee Michelangelo and others he also wrote a book about Bengal Two thousand seven the Yellow House about the artists turbulent few weeks in one thousand nine hundred eight with Paul Gauguin in the French town of all the two mountains and I met last September to talk about Tim Bailey's book starry night van Gulf at the asylum. I thought I might start the discussion with you. Martin Gifford actually because you wrote the book the Yellow House which is actually about a another seminal period in Van Gogh's life the period in our with Gauguin. Can you just tell us a bit of the background which Yeltsin ultimately leads to vandals entering this asylum. Yes thank arrived in all early in eighteen eighty eight having spent two years in Paris which actually is the paired we know least about because he didn't write write me letters and then <hes> he spent the rest of the <hes> until the autumn more rather isolated and working as crescendo of <hes> creativity <hes> she described as maintaining a high a yellow note so more more and more pieces pour out through the summer sunflowers wheatfields and so forth <hes> and he was getting into more and more wobbly state <hes> one gathers from the from the letters and also <hes> waging campaign to get Gauguin to join him <hes> go eventually arrives Twas October then they have a very intense periods of nine weeks which working side by side aside cooperation quarreling learning from each other that culminates just before Christmas in the very celebrated breakdown and e._m.. Mutilation episode <hes> Fag cuts off we now know he's in Thai. Yeah one of them and <hes> go back just leaves <hes> he's. He's walked out of the house before he comes back. Wrangles covered in blood he he he disappears he goes to piracy. Never sees it again. Vincent enters the hospital in all and he emerges early the next year multi barely can you take up the story from there. Yes I mean vanguards physical wounds healed remarkably quickly and week'll so which is actually astonishing but the underlying problems were still there and the mental difficulties which had emerged so he was initially kept in hospital and he was allowed out during the day initially to go to the house and paint he came back to the hospital in the evening to sleep and but he became increasingly aware that he will be unable to live independently. There were too many mental barriers in the way A and <hes> his doctors and his brother encouraged him to move to an asylum now the to Assad items they were initially looking at with those in Marseilles an aix-en-provence which were enormous public institutions with a thousand patients and that would have been terrible for Vincent at fortunately in the end he went to a much smaller much much smaller private asylum <hes> just outside Sandra me which was twenty kilometers also from from all and <hes> he went there at the beginning of May and he was to spend just over a year. It was one year in one week there. Is it fair to say that this smaller asylum was somewhat more enlightened than those grand institutions she-she's that you're talking about the Marseille Marseille Nice there was plenty of room there was plenty of space and that was very important for Vincent because they allocated him two rooms one for sleeping and one for th- studio and that was fantastic. I am in fact I found documents which I published in story light showing that <hes> the only eighteen male patients so it was a very small number so they got much more personal care and there was a garden and that garden this lovely walled garden was absolutely essential for Van Gov because it gave him an opportunity to paint outside and if he'd ended up in one of the large public asylums he never would have produced what he did over that year exactly and they were in the middle of cities went ninety. What was crucial to this period? As as we see in the paintings he surrounded by extraordinary <hes> countryside yes I mean really developed as a landscape artist when he was in provence and I mean the country round the solemn album is so beautiful <hes> olive groves <hes> Toll Cypresses and the hills of these are P in the background. I mean we its it. Now is a major tourist attraction Terry because it is so beautiful and unspoilt and that landscape escape <hes> I it gave Van Gulf great encouragement <hes> to exercise himself as an artist and if he hadn't been painting. I don't think he would have survived. It was his reason for living gave him a vocation <hes> and it was so important to him at tell me a bit about the asylum then <hes> you visited it and you gain access to in a way that the public could never gain access to it today. Yes I mean thirty years ago. When I just begun a being interest in Van Golf <hes> I was allied inside the it's now a mental hospital <hes> and I was allowed inside and I took photographs <hes> there with the <hes> director very soon afterwards all visits from outsiders were were abandoned understandably so tourists now and visitors can visit a small area the church and the old cloisters which lovely and very ancient and the room which is presented as fangled Rome? It's not actually the room where he slept. That actually was one of many discoveries I made from reading a book that I visited an unseen this a very convincing <hes> <hes> fake <hes> room angles <hes> <hes> and just accepted that that was way. He's he's left so I imagine most people think that they do. Yes yeah now in order to make this into a book. You've actually gathered new research. Can you tell us what that is. Yes yes I mean so many people come to me and so say isn't any more to discover about vanguard but of course the is always is the most important bit of research I did was to find an unpublished register of emissions of the patients who'd who'd come that and this gave the names of the patients and we now know <hes> almost all of the eighteen patients who were there and I was able to correlate the Admission Register <hes> with a book and article by the Asylum Vilem director <hes> in the nineteen twenties talked about the medical problems of the patients when bengals was there and the bottom line is we now have a much better understanding of the environment in which van Gaal walls. I mean so far <hes> art historians have relied very very heavily on vanguard's letters understandably because they're so telling but in the case of his period at the asylum he writes very little about what everyday life is like and I think it was pumped it because he didn't want he wanted to escape from this item. When he was writing he didn't want to dwell on it and he also wanted to spare his brother Tayo <hes> some of the unpleasant details so with this new information? We're able to understand much better what the situation was an how it was for him. So if you followed up letters from other people that were in the asylum and that sort of thing what sort of materials of you ganged <hes> well looking mostly <hes> you know <hes> the at birth and death records to see what profession the other patients were for example there was an elderly priest he probably had dementia he was sent there <hes> and <hes> in some cases people were mentioned in newspaper report says a matter of putting the pieces of the Jigsaw puzzle together but that's the nature of research and so some of the patients were very severely really disturbed which Vincent touches on in his letters but <hes> you you've managed to fill out fill out that information would have been quite I mean there were people were shouting and screaming all the time it must have been quite a testing environment environment and notice which to produce landscapes and exactly yes. I was actually shocked by how severely affected. Some of the other patients were <hes> the reports of them breaking furniture there there was one young man <hes> who is described as violent <hes> but he couldn't speak and if you can't speak it's not surprising that you turn to violence to express yourself <hes> so is actually quite moving and for most of the time Fan Goff was <hes> really among the sameness patients <hes> in the asylum and it must be very difficult for him being surrounded by these people you know every time you went to to the <hes> refectory of his breakfast. You know there would be people throwing around food shouting in the common room when they were keeping warm <hes> around the fire other people would be doing similar things. It was very very trying environment so it's astonishing he produced with work although it also it strikes me it was good for him when he arrives in Paris in <hes> in May eighteen ninety his new <hes> sister-in-law says remarks on how healthy healthy he looks he looks he looks rather sort of his sort of bronzed and fit looking and looks fitter than his brother Tare <hes> so I would imagine that a regular life regular meals <hes> probably <hes> little or no alcohol which he was drinking heavily in all times and before <hes> was probably physically with it was making him more robust. Well pep second put you correct alcohol because in fact one of the conditions conditions that his brother Tayo imposed on the asylum when he was admitted was vincent should be given a half liter of wine every day quite a bit quite a bit when imagine she might have been knocking back more than less <hes> AH to own resources. Yes I think you'll be you'll basic point about the regular life of discipline and the regular meals is actually quite important and Vincent was not very good at organizing housing his life. He was very good painting but he wasn't ready. Good the everyday things of life and I think being an institutional though he hated the institutionalized live I think you're quite right that it it probably made him healthier and of course the doctor's keeping a little bit of an eye on him she we talked briefly about what condition we think van Gogh had because I know that both of you obviously will have looked into this in your respective books multimedia L._L._C. new. I think give a very good case for the pattern of a by what we would now call a bipolar disorder existence in the sense that there were flurries of activity and they were points which where clearly he sunk into quite quite deep depression is it is that what you would say he suffered from well. The being literally hundreds of papers by medical specialists analyzing what van Gaal's problems were his own doctors in his own time thought it was epilepsy and and the most likely explanation is bipolar disorder but it's by no means clear and as a non medical expert. I've always wondered whether he had two problems or even three problems which makes it more difficult to diagnose but what what do you think off. When I did my research I put it to the question to a consultant psychiatrist? Who <hes> I happen to know so I if you had a patient presenting with the symptoms what would you you think she said well? I was thinking of bipolar so I would I not I think that's probably the strongest <hes> diagnosis but is quite possible that he had <hes> agree. Are you several things I think it's pretty likely that he had syphilis but he hadn't it hadn't reached the <hes> the tertiary of final stage yet so that probably wasn't actually what was making Humil- but it was it was underlying factor and he may be more guy on as well. Let's let's talk about this extraordinary level of activity because these are very trying circumstances that he was working in and yet one of the things that does really beautifully. I think is show US page page after page. The masterpiece was producing. Yes I mean he just astonishing paintings and starry night of course gave the title <hes> and that's a painting that we all know so well and he was only able to paint for three quarters of of his time because the rest of the record of the time he was ill so when he was actually in reasonable health he was producing in a painting almost every day. I mean that's an astonishing achievement. He spent most of his waking waking hours painting. The wasn't very very much else to do but I mean it was one of the things that is so amazing that he was able to produce these fabulous landscapes you know which is so to mystic most of them in the most trying of circumstances yes as you on the line in the book there actually they were more everybody perhaps another twenty also which <hes> which were left in this autumn when he when he went back to Paris and most of which almost all of which have disappeared <hes> the the productivity is quite astonishing and another each other intrigues me is what he chose to depict around around the asylum. I mean when one goes the way it's come help noticing that <hes> some of the most spectacular room and remains in in southern France just outside the gate. I presume he could've got that fodder to to to to paint no interest whatsoever in Redmond raises the same in all the spectacular remains no interest. I think Vincent didn't like the pulse I even wonder if he he found it rather depressing old or or allow me he's he didn't like Gothic architecture and that doesn't you mentioned one of his letters and that doesn't feature as much as it might considering. Yes I think I think he was almost rebelling against that. Other artists were painting the Roman Ruins because they will quite sellable gullible so he actually wanted to do something different so I think it was a sort of an element of rebellion in his decision to concentrate on the olive groves yes or a corner of a field or or a tree or one of the things th that's really nice. Is that you so you see him sort of fanning out were and then coming back into the asylum there for instance the paintings he makes him the garden and then you see the Cypresses and you see sort of ravines veins but then also he made a series of remarkable self portray. Can you tell me a bit about the kinds of work he was producing <hes> will it was it was made me landscapes. I mean he would have liked to have done more portrait's <hes>. Because the the the people we could paint though with the staff and the went very many members or the other patients although he did <hes> paint two of the patients I presumed that he needed permission from the director of the asylum and <hes> <hes> the patients would not have been very pleased to when they saw the result of the portrait's Van Gulf was produced in because they were so unlike a portrait's at the time <hes> so he because he couldn't do many portraits he therefore concentrated more on the landscapes and <hes> there is an astonishing range and he did things in in series in a way not quite like Manet who would sort of paint exactly the same scene under different lights but he would paint wheatfields at different different stages slightly different views from weather's <hes> so he would investigate <hes> a theme. I'm not sure that he necessary did it consciously but he would he would you could see that he was selecting motifs that <hes> <hes> he particularly liked and the wheatfield for example was view from his window from his bedroom window and the window <hes> had heavy metal balls over it so he was actually looking through these metal balls at the landscape <hes> <hes> and again when you realize how these paintings were created <hes> it's such a wonderful achievement. It's <hes> an ironic sidelight radio on angles <hes> work is he. He remarks from time to time in the letter what he really wants to do is portrayed so these landscapes and still so for that they're down <hes> for one portrait sitters <hes> and that was the problem he had virtually everywhere in all he couldn't he had great difficulties dissuading people to to pose for him and it's and it's if anything can even worse when you went into the Assad although I gather from several forty he did do and gave to the citizen for disappear because they were probably destroyed now. This is an interesting point. I mean I think thank you normally would give a copy of the paint a portrait to the sitter as saying thank you and very very few of them have survived so one must assume that many other cities will given the portraits of themselves and <hes> I think they probably disliked the port traits and at some point they was simply thrown away but of course it's possible that <hes> in some attic somewhere in Provence <hes> one or two of these portraits could survive well. They're all AH there is a possibility that quite a few <hes> event lost Fan Gos- Mater was quite a few <hes> went missing during or after the Second World War including one you reproduce in your sunflowers book. I think it is <hes> ah which was one of the pictures of ivy growing on a tree which <hes> wrangle painted so armee which is obviously a painting he hugely MoD and it was last sighted being examined a. and by Herman Gurry in Paris during the wars that that's correct and during almost certainly took it as a photograph of him with his mom actually sort of feeling the impostor thanks so we assume that he took this painting which has now disappeared <hes> but something's <hes> hopefully we'll still turn up Martin Gay for can you talk about the sort of innovations that Vangla who's making in terms of technically and in terms of space and he's used to paint at the time well. He's he's Palette changes. Actually the the <hes> the all Peres <hes> his contract by this <hes> high yellow tone particularly during the the holidays period this Osama and it's <hes> it's a little bit <hes> more restrained Soro me <hes> as he's <hes> <hes> it's descending a distinct <hes> alert his his career is amazing mature parodies PABST US about three years but even so there are distinct when he moves they are distinct changes and he was moving. It seems to me not having abstract isn't exactly the wood but towards the end of his life he was moving into a sort of freer idiom <hes> and when he's painting for example Ivy and tree trunks. It's getting quite sort free and wild. Sometimes I mean I agree the the get strong colors of the all period <hes> of a muted when he's in the asylum and that possibly may reflect his mood but the other thing he does introduce all strengthened is the brushwork and although Oh he used strong in pesto thick paint when he was in all the brushwork is sort of more dramatic when he's at the Solomon San Romy and I particularly point to starry night with this sort of cloud like form which Russia's she's across the canvas so that's what he developed the asylum one of the things that strikes me when I'm looking at the paintings in the book again is he's amazing spatial innovation. There's a picture of pine trees in the garden of the asylum and M- mountain you describe how it is if he's lying on the ground looking up to the tree canopy but also has this sort of almost area perspective of the figures one of who may in fact be Van Gough as you point out. That's another really striking innovation isn't it. He's he's used to space in the way he characterizes Roy z space. Yes and you can imagine that on a hot summer's dame prevents you might actually be lying on the ground <hes> sort of looking up at the sky and dreaming or thinking about the painting that you were going to do next <hes> you're quite right in this painting you describe the buildings silent look tiny <hes> it looks like it's Dole's house and these huge great trees that have gone up into the sky and then the sky changing its color with different shades. It's a blue <hes> so you know that shows what what was going on in his mind and the imagination that lies them. Yes I thought an interesting point actually came out of your observations <hes> of starry night in your what you'll investigation of exactly what what what the <hes> <hes> conditions of the night sky were on whenever it was the fifteenth of June <hes> in in <hes> in southern France but your your final conclusion is <unk> actually he's not depict carefully depicting the <hes> <hes> the condition of the position of the stars and so full say it's much more of generalized memory image and up. That's actually one of the <hes> contrast crossed in engulfs work which <hes> <hes> it was a theme in his old period he wanted go guy to help him paint more from imagination and memory and he produces a few pictures at that stage that kind of and actually a few more successful successful ones. It seems to me when his in the asylum. Let's let's talk about this because I think this is a remarkable piece of research. Can you describe melting your visit to the planetarium and how you got them to recreate the sky. The van Gulf might have seen on that on that evening. I was very curious to know whether fan was actually depicting something that he'd seen in the painting of starry night so I went to Greenwich to the planetarium there to ask whether they might be able to reconstruct what the sky would have been like on that night in the summer of eighteen eighty nine in provence and <hes> I think because everyone's saying treat by Van Gov they agreed to help <hes> so I went into the planetarium by myself than this large room a. and then they projected the night skies changed over that night and was able to see that Vang offered certainly not depicted stars <hes> all the moon in the way in which they happened but he taken various elements as some some elements could have been seen the previous night's some the following morning and he'd sort of in his own mind he brought together elements from the night sky to wreak create this <hes> astonishing image and it's. Quite easy to understand why he was interested in the sky the wasn't very much to do in the evenings <hes> <hes> at that time <hes> the would have been virtually no artificial light so you couldn't really have read so you out of the window of the Sky Hi and <hes> he was looking out of the barred windows <hes> probably every night just looking at them at the stars and the stars meant a great deal to him he some house of associated them with the idea of eternity <hes> so they actually had a sort of spiritual meaning for him as well and then he'd sort of took these elements and created this radio imaginative vision. Yes it was a subject it'd be. It'd been toying with an attempting for some time. Wasn't it as you say it's a painting that he did another one which <hes> apparently he did do outside <hes> that's the claim which <hes> I mean would pose terrible. You know tremendous technical difficult paint painting outdoors off too dumb to know most challenging activity <hes> I suppose one is thinking about the ceremony <hes> picture <hes> one thing start me as you get very very little <hes> <hes> light pollution in in the province L. countryside late nineteenth century so you'd get tremendously vivid <hes> impression of a of a of a clear sky indeed there was virtually no artificial light so it's difficult for for Russell who live in cities to imagine what the sky of sprinkled release stalls everywhere but there's also this intriguing possibility that he might have depicted the Milky Way. Yes I mean the the this curious of wave like form that the rushes across the painting <hes> I think it could well be <hes> the idea of the Milky Way which you really eighty would've seen in those days you know as a sort of almost a white form I mean when we see it too when we see it. <hes> was artificial light. We just see some of the stars but you know you've seen so many stars so I think seeing the Milky Way must have inspired the idea of this formation across the painting but of course what Van Goffin's done is make it move and give make it lively now. Let's talk about what happens. After he leaves the asylum first of all why did he leave the asylum and then what happens next because before too long he dies yes. I mean it's interesting. He left asylum almost exactly a year. After he arrived he got increasingly frustrated. <hes> with life there he probably ought to stayed because he had probably four separate mental attacks but he put very strong pressure on the asylum director on his brother <hes> to leave and they did agree that he he could leave <hes> so he left in May eighteen ninety and he had a short visit to Paris to see his brother and his brother's new wife and then he went to your walls which is <hes> a delightful village is just north of Paris and he was after two months he was very productive again. He painted a painting day plus drawings and thinks he's beginning relatively well <hes> and then suddenly <hes> tragedy struck. We don't know what happened but <hes> he walked up to the wheat fields where he was painting regularly with a gun that he'd borrowed probably from the in where he was staying and he shot himself in the stomach stomach and he then managed to walk back to the in an e climbed up the staircase to his room and <hes> the innkeeper sole something was wrong and followed him up and he was very badly wounded and his brother came to sit by his bedside and two days later he was dead multi produce much work after leaving these well yes I in fact I was going to say about Him Bailey. I very much hope he's going complete his trilogy and write and write another book about about the ovationhair because although it's only two months it's another discreet period in vandals <hes> work and actually you can see moving in different directions. He changes the changes again. He uh-huh he goes for a Horizontal Full Matt <hes> <hes> I think <hes> it's <hes> idol but fascinating to speculate on what would have happened if he hadn't either committed suicide committed this active self home which which killed him over what would have happened if won't find Goff would have done next is fascinating question. We'll thank you both for talking so vividly about this amazing artist. Thank you thank you very much now. Ever prolific Martin Bailey released a second Bengal book within a year living with Vincent Van Goof looking at his life through the places he lived and worked this to unveil new details of Franco's life and particularly a love affair he had in The Hague which ended in tragedy. I spoke to Multi Bailey in April this year about this and his work on tape Britain's exhibition bengals and Britain multi one thing that comes through in the book is this idea that the van Gogh very very rarely put down any kind of roots and and traveled almost throughout his entire adult life. Yes he was always on the move and as an adult and if that you probably spent longer here in London than he did anywhere else in any other city later on I mean he moved around for all sorts of reasons to begin with he was looking for work <hes> he then became a Christian missionary and he failed that he kept striving for something else and that would make him move on he was very difficult to settle and then once he became an artist he kept thinking that if he moved to a different city or different place it would somehow transform his art and that you'll would be up to sell it of course he never sold his art but it was actually very productive in a sense the fact that he kept moving when he was an artist because he had the stimulation you know he would be working in the village where his parents parents live painting the peasants and then of course he went to Paris and that was exciting and he met the impressionists and discovered color and then he went to prevents and we all enchanted by the landscape of Provence Vincent so he he s he was on the move and the the book is really a biography living with Vincent Van Gov. It's a biography better biography with an angle it looks the places where he lived <hes> cities and the villages and the homes and the buildings that he lived in so it's a biography which has got us little focus on it. There is a nice section about his time in London Nichols Chimes with an exhibition at Tate Britain at the moment van Gogh from Britain which looks at that time timing is one aspect of the show can tell us more about this because actually the start of his time in London. He's actually probably his earning more than he would ever earn again for the rest of his life is indeed and he was actually earning more than his father. Although he was age twenty which was very impressionable age when he came to London and it had an absolutely crucial influence on him and I think tanker goes far saying that if he had never been an art dealer which he was in London he would never have become an artist. It would not have occurred to him so when he was in London he was working for gallery in Covent Garden A french-owned Gallery it sold a lot of high class reproductions of paintings photographs and engravings <hes> so he saw a huge number of images and they also began to sell original painting says exposed to <hes> to art and it was also very important in the discovering literature. And the English illustrators and those aspects which are looked at at the exhibition at Tate Britain gives us more about he's emotional life in London because I think again this is something that's really nice in the but you you deal with the details of place you deal with his working life but of course you you begin to hint at some of the later troubles he would experience <hes> in terms of his mental health and some of that was emerging in London wasn't it. Yes I mean I. I think life is often difficult. When you're twenty <hes> he came came here with very little experience of life he'd been born in a little farming village in the Netherlands and London was the largest city on earth so everything was around him just near the gallery where he was working covent garden one minute's walk to northwestern vegetable market and next to it was the Royal Opera House that was low life and highlight and then in the strand which was one minute away <hes> during the day the bookshops and publishes that and then at night it was streetwalkers talkers so he really discovered life in London and he also discovered it at the house where he lodged in Brixton because he fell in love and that happens in that age too and there's been much debate as to whether he fell in love with his his landlady or the daughter now looking at all the evidence? I think it's more likely to have been the daughter. The problem was she became engaged to the previous lodger so she rejected him and in the end Vincent Vincent was rejected in two cents when he was in England he was rejected by the art dealer who sacked him in the end because he wasn't very good at dealing with customers and <hes> the landlady's daughter rejected him because she fell in love with someone else now. He fell in love later when he was in the hey. Can you tell us more about the story because it's it's heartwarming story to a certain extent to begin with but it ends in tragedy doesn't it. Yes it's a real it is very very sad and and I've got a lot of new information in the book about what happened and done a blog on which beyond the newspaper site basically I've discovered what happened to seen Horneck who is the woman that fangled fell in love with when he was in the hey and she moved into his apartment and they lived together for just over a year. Now seeing was a prostitute or she was when Vincent Meta and indeed Vincent was looking for model <hes> to to help his drawing exercises nights is and that's how they met <hes> and they then fell in love and she moved into the apartment <hes> she has had a tragic life. <hes> sheet had four babies with different men all of whom had abandoned her and anyway they lived together for just over a year but <hes> neither see nor Vincent were very easy characters and they came from very different backgrounds and in the end they split up and Vincent went off to paint in the north of of Netherlands now very little has been known about what happened seen but I track down a death certificate which has not been published and <hes> she died <hes> in Rotterdam in one thousand nine hundred four and it was death by drowning and what is particularly horrific is vincent quotes <hes> when they were together a saying that she was a whole. She admitted that she was a hall and she said she would end up in the water and that's exactly what happened. Is this really awful. Data isn't it and another awful detail is that her body is discovered by a garbage collector in the canal isn't it yes I mean I discovered first of all the data for death from the Rotterdam archive records and that recorded that she died in a canal in Rotterdam. <hes> I then having got the date <hes> found newspaper reports <hes> about the drowning of an unidentified woman aged about forty five the report said and this was front page news in the Rotterdam newspaper. The newspaper did not name her but they gave her initials which oversee conclusive evidence as is seen and it shows that the that's the way she ended her life she she actually got married <hes> just a few years before her death and <hes> it's also tragic that <hes> her husband <hes> lost for a week didn't aware she'd gone went to the police and the police told her <hes> that <hes> it sounded as if his it was his wife who had been found the body had actually being buried that morning and the police insisted that the body of the cops be <hes> exhumed <hes> an unidentified properly though it was a tragic story I mean <hes> it's very difficult for us to imagine what life must have been like <hes> during the nineteenth century <hes> for women in those difficult situations and of course they were known known as fallen women and of course one of the sort of extra tragic elements of is the sort of elements of happiness that actually come through in bengals works that actually depict scene because there are these lovely tender drawings they were sort of more academic academic drawings where he's clearly studying the form of a fee sitting woman for instance but actually there's a during of of her five year old daughter and and her baby as well as as well as those sort of more academic study oh he was very he was obviously see very emotionally involved with and indeed she was the most important woman in Van God's life and the only one that she act is he actually lived with a nineteen that comes through in the drawings and also the tragic story of her abandonment assignment and one of the drawings actually has a quotation at the bottom which Vincent added about women being abandoned. <hes> said he felt very strongly and indeed he actually wanted to marry scene and he said he wanted to marry scene because if he didn't marry her if if he abandoned her like all the previous men than something terrible would happen and indeed it did so tell us about the period off to this obviously this'll to the this sort of established narrative we know about but he didn't just immediately mmediately head to Paris he didn't and then you know the pro then there's the province narrative what happens after The Hague yes well here. He escaped if you want from the relationship and went to the remote area of the north of the Netherlands called Trente and there he started <hes> paint <hes> it was wintertime very difficult so he then came back and live with his parents in the village of Newnan where they were living and he painted the peasants there and he painted peasant hearts and he painted weavers then he went briefly to Antwerp twelve where he thought he would do a course <hes> but he was always a very bad student and he gave up the calls very quickly and moved to Paris where his brother Tale was working. Actually for the same aren't deal at the same gallery and <hes> it was embarrassed that his eyes were open to modern art and the colors of his dodge period give way to the really bright exuberant colors <hes> we we'd we know Van Golf. He then headed south <hes> after two years <hes> in in Paris and he said he sort of drank too much when he was in Mo- Mantra and life for sort of too stressful and he wanted a more peaceful and he also they wanted to paint the landscape and <hes> where that place could he have gone say first of all went to all Andy Zephyr year and a half and that was the time when he was living the Yellow House in Waco Gang came and when the terrible incident of the ear occurred Hud and after that the next stop was the asylum <hes> near San Ray metoo provence where he stayed a year <hes> where he was looked after but that time very little was known about mental health problems and even less how to kill them <hes> but he was remained that for year and then he his last stop on his long pilgrimage or journey. If you like was over your wiles which is a village north of Paris where. A He stayed seventy days and painted seventy paintings and then the end came and suddenly he decided to end his life he went to the wheatfields shot himself and died two days later one of the things the book is that you've tried to find photographs of the places and also the rooms in which van Gogh spent his life and that airless room with just a skylight is tremendously evocative in his final place the room he died in it. Yes I mean it was a tiny room at the top of the year and it was a very small in and it was the the Garret Room and there was just a tiny skylight. Let in a little bit of light. There's no window to look out a the houses <unk> opposite and he couldn't really even paint in this room. The light must have been terrible as I believe he painted downstairs and it was in this very difficult situation <hes> that he ended his life. I mean his brother provided money. Vincent was terrible using money he just spent it as soon as arrived so we always found daily life very challenging in terms of the narratives of the book you mentioned kind of journey that he takes. Do you get a sense of his life. Being one of 'em progressive decline or their highs and lows in long along this journey well every time he made a journey to another place <hes> to another home he always thought that that was gonna be the answer to his problems. <hes> he was always seeking and it never worked out <HES> and that's why he kept moving <hes> so <hes> it is extraordinary the number of places that he lived in I mean he was in a dozen different places when he was an over at least over a dozen places when he was an adult and remember this was the time when people didn't travel as much as they do now. <hes> <hes> so travel was a big thing and it must have been quite right disruptive for him to make new friends she had to find out where to buy his canvas. <hes> he had different languages to us and he was good at languages I mean in addition to his Dutch and he spoke English fluently fluently French even better and he also spoke German and let's talk about the Tate Britain exhibition because you're a CO curator of Van Gogh from Britain. Can you tell us something about your role in the show because it's really intriguing. Show is a show again of multiple parts. Yes I mean essentially the two elements to the exhibition. The first is about vanguards period in England between eighteen seventy three and eighteen seventy six <hes> and what he did hear what he read and everything and the impact later on him of English art and English literature and English illustrations and that scenario which I had quite a lot of the time especially on and <hes> Aisha curate an exhibition at the Barbican many many years ago on that subject so that's the first half of the expedition where I have contributed most if you like the second half of the expedition is new and breaks new ground and I was less involved in that but that's the influence of Van Gulf on AH later British artists <hes> I mean the first post impressionist exhibition was held in London and indeed the term post impressionism was invented there and the were British artists who were very inspired Pyatt by Van Golf and also the other impressionists and the show ends with a bit of a bang on Bacon who did a series of paintings of Fan Gulf based on angle self portrait of him striding through the landscape okay so I think it's a very interesting show in that it combines those those two elements and the main Curator League Rato was coward Giacobbe at the tate and I was ready assisting on the Gulf research one of the things I was struck by when I was walking through the show and actually I find it much more moving exhibition. Some of the reviews suggested actually was that on the one hand you had this struggling young man in England and then they disappeared we see his art ripping through British almost like a comet and creating enormous amount of influence influence enormous response from British artists and I found that really accelerating actually yeah it is interesting I mean during the Victorian period there was very little interest <hes> in continental art in Britain <hes> and then it just around the time I am the first World War and British artists suddenly got inspired by Paris by the impressionists and by the Post impressionists and they would often go there either to study auto work in the French landscape and so it was a great influence and I mean one of the challenges for the exhibition is that is often difficult to distinguish precisely what the infants of Van Gough is rather than post impressionism in general because Gauguin was also an important figure but I think aspect of <hes> the influence of the impressionists on British art is something that has not really been appreciated and the exhibition presents it nicely in a visual form so we can actually see the links between the paintings paintings and I think it should be said there are some absolutely stoneking loans in the show their van Goff's haven't been in this country for a very long time from overseas. The sunflowers has traveled from the National Gallery to the tight. I there are there are load of really great did fantastically getting loans and I know you have to fight for every single loan. When it comes to hang off <hes> I mean it's wonderful the National Gallery length painting it only move down the road <hes> and incidentally I? I should tell you in one thousand nine hundred ninety seven when the tate wanted to borrow a pitch from National Gallery it was actually sent by taxi nothing different now <hes> and it was sent in a very high security vehicle. I can assure you and so the sun fast but rose has some very important loans from far afield from Sao Paulo in Brazil <hes>. There's a very important painting of a woman <hes> there's this wonderful painting from Russia of the prisoners at newgate eight which is a lovely <hes> link this to one of my favorites is a privately owned picture of a tree but it's very very striking and <hes> this quite a lot of Japanese influence in that picture and that's one one of the challenges of the exhibition because Vincent takes things like most artists do from different sources so the Pitch Abba Japanese influence an also an English inference at the same time yes there are magnificent pitches and financial dimension of tools the starry night over the Rhone from all say and last but not least the two self portraits and the most magnificent one is from the National Gallery of art in Washington indeed multi. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you living with Vincent. Van Gogh is published by Lion Publishing and he's thirty dollars in the U._S. or twenty two pounds in the U._K.. White Line also published story night van Gogh for the asylum and that is forty dollars or twenty five pounds van Gogh from Britain is at Tate Britain in London until the eleventh of August must engage the yellow house was published by Penguin Books and he still imprint twelve years after it was first published it costs nine nine thousand nine or fifteen dollars ninety five you can read around thirty blog entries Van Gogh written by Martin Bailey on our website visit the art newspaper Dot Com and Click on the Fan Gov blog link. You can also the block in our act for I._O._S.. which confined at the APP store on the website you'll find a range of subscriptions so that you can read content seamlessly across multiple platforms? Meanwhile please subscribe to our free daily newsletter for all the latest news go to the newspaper Dot Com and click on the link at the top right of the page you can subscribe to the Puck US wherever you normally listen to them and please Lisi first rating or review on Apple podcast and follow us on twitter at Tan Odia Russo on instagram and facebook of course the podcast is produced by Judy Housekeeper Amy Dawson and David Clack and is edited by David. We'll be back with another from the archive podcast.

Vincent Vincent Paris van Gogh Van Gulf Vincent Van Gough director Britain Yellow House London Provence Martin Bailey Paul Gauguin bengals Van Gov London Assad England van Gaal
Highlights from the Archive #2

The Catholic Culture Podcast

1:13:15 hr | 1 year ago

Highlights from the Archive #2

"Welcome the Catholic Culture podcast. I'm Thomas v Muris. This podcast is offering to family and less importantly a production of Catholic culture. Dot Org Hey Everybody Happy Easter Happy Divine Mercy. Sunday. I'm back. I don't have a new episode for you right now. Because I'm smack DAB in the middle of preparing for a couple of interviews in the coming week as well as the launch of an entirely new podcast series which you'll be hearing about more in the near future So I figured just to give you something to listen to. I'd drop some more highlights from some earlier episodes in the podcast. So in this episode you'll hear some great clips from my interview with father. Basil Coal Dominican Friar on the topic of music and morals interview with Jesuit priests. Father George Grants on acting. He teaches theater at Fordham. University from my Early Interviews With Corey Olson Aka. The tolkien professor on an obvious topic and from an interview with former Virginia delegate. Bob Marshall on a sort of civics lesson for Catholics Getting involved in the world of Caesar but before I start playing clips for you I need to tell you about Catholic. Ultra Dot Org Easter. Challenge as you all know. We're in the midst of quite a bit of economic disruption because of the crew virus pandemic and nonprofits are facing the same challenges as anybody else. Now I know. Times are likely tight For you as well as for us but nonetheless if Catholic Culture Dot Org is going to continue serving our mission Not only with the audio productions which is a really a more of a new part of what we do But with all of the resources we provide on our website. Our commentary our news or liturgical year Services and so on. We are going to need some help so this Easter challenge. That we've just begun will really be a test to see if we can continue with our mission Thanks to the generosity of some of our boosters. We've been able to set up a thirty one thousand dollar challenge grant so that means that all donations up to thirty one thousand dollars will be matched by our generous boosters and that will be going through pentecost Sunday so if the podcast that we produce valuable to you please consider donating. You can donate specifically for our audio resources at Catholic culture dot org slash donate slash audio. You can donate a number of ways sending checks credit card CETERA ET CETERA. And of course it is tax deductible you can find more information at that donation page again the Catholic culture dot org slash donate slash audio Thank you very much for any generosity. And we'd ask even if you can't give any money to pray for us. We pray for all of our not only our donors but our our readers listeners users of all kinds as well on a daily basis and now onto the show this first clip about ten minutes long is from my interview back in episode eleven with a wonderful Dominican Friar Father Basil Call who teaches at the Dominican House of Studies in Washington. Dc Father Basil wrote his dissertation on Music and morals sort of a survey of everything that major philosophers and theologians in the West have said on the topic of the connection between music and morality. The episode is as much of a discussion as it is an interview. I think it certainly Worth giving a listen to in full even now but especially if you've ever heard someone claim that certain forms of modern music you know rhythms or whatever are sort of inherently morally degraded It's worth checking out. I know not that many people have this view anymore but still I think we did a pretty good job of refuting that so in this excerpt from the episode father. Basil and I discuss why certain dogmatic personalities might feel threatened by musical creativity? We talk about the necessity of in art and the spiritual life and why philosophers have often not understood music. So here it is. I'd like to ask you specific comment. You make about some of the people at the time you were writing who were against Das- and you suggest at the very beginning of this that quote dogmatic personality types unquote. Who wants to be in control of everything may feel threatened by the creativity of Jazz? I just want to know. How much do you think that sort of wanting to be in control has played a part in the approach of philosophers to music over the centuries Never thought of that way. You put it aside speculating. Some people always think they're infallible. He writes about tastes. Why do they think that way it has to do with the BURBS? Louisville were trained from their parents. Maybe mom and dad were always that way and then what else. Kinda. I've never. You're posing a question. I haven't thought about it too deeply but I was thinking of absolutists unannounced of morals but absolutists of music that than I am always rice and and therefore if I say ipso facto. This is terrible stuff terrible I am. You know you can't disagree with me. This happened in my college days with a lot of my professors. They thought they would wouldn't WANNA discuss. Wouldn't WANNA nuance would want to distinguish. They just came to certain conclusions. In there was there was no discussion. And so as a result of perhaps hearing jazz for maybe for the first time in some cases in some cases the variety scared the maybe the variety force them to reconsider and that that might have interfered with their self identity. Part of beautiful music even the classics. You know surprise. Great Music has to have some kind of surprise in melodic Cetera and of course jazz is filled with improvisational surprises. Listened to carefully. And if you're a control freak you like to be able to to get a handle on the music. He liked to be able to predict predict. Predict but great jazz is unpredictable. Even if you listen to it again again. There's certain things that you think you picked up but you didn't but if it's the Jam Session. Oh my heavens. There's kinds of creativity going on and some people get frightened by the. That's why some preachers like to have a text in front of them that they can hold onto under their control. They can't possibly veer from their texts. It shakes them at center. They can't possibly get a new idea in the middle of their homily and then all of a sudden development it just they. Their identity is such that. It's static that they're afraid of of going off into a thought it hasn't thought before making sense. Yeah no that that makes sense. And there's an element of risk there. Yeah if you're going to be extemporaneous at any setting whether it's musical or Tori jazz musician says you make a mistake. Make it into something. That's not shake you no way around this deal with. That's right. I think. Ornette Coleman said that by Freon Kobe. I didn't like Orange Company. But you're right. You're right at preferred Yeah grief and I think there's some people that can't deal with yeah. They're perfectionists spills over in. But I think if you want to get into the transcendent. There's a paradox in music and art that if you want to get into the transcendent you have to risk imperfection that is correct because if you are in complete control than that means it's not coming from somewhere higher than you. That's true and go along with either go on with their. Let's even Spiritual life that night was Garfield the gifts of the whole when you have to take risks like Mother Teresa did well right because virtue is a sort of control in a sense but I think that we have in virtue itself has to be transcended. I don't mean in the sense of left behind but it isn't that right. Wouldn't you say that in the spiritual life that virtue is not the highest goal of the divine will the theological virtues are are meant to be expressed and then when you're faced with unusual circumstances Decommitments than the gifts of the Holy Spirit kind of push you beyond reason not against reason but above reason and you can sometimes do things this would say as a fruitcake. Lying Mother Theresa leaving her order and feeling you know. She's doing a great job as a sister of Lorenzo and everything was going fine but all of a sudden God was asking her to leave. It knew something that required constant risks and not knowing the consequences. Right and Miles Davis would always talk about the importance of playing beyond what you already know just at least a little bit beyond what you already know correct absolutely correct on that happens all the great arts siphon so another aspect of Control. I was thinking about with the philosophers and you know unfortunately I pretty much. I think this is true. You know not only of the ancients but pretty much of philosophers dealing with music and up until the nineteenth century and even then even most of them in that period. I think that there well there. There's always a great respect for music. I think with only with only a couple exceptions. I think con might have described it as being akin to wallpaper or something like that but he might have been an exception to that. I may be thinking of someone else. I think it was caught but the philosophers by nature are people who work with concepts. Of course. That's especially true. Now in philosophy is not butte in say the sense that Saint Justin Martyr would've used at meaning. You know love of wisdom in the most conch in the most sort in the fullest sense not just of knowing about something but having a relationship with it so philosophers being people who deal with concept's and put a great value on their own profession. I think our lows to allow the non conceptual to have a high value Yes yes and one thing into Rossio nation reason reason reason and right discursive reason. There's intuition yes my view. Is that the intuition involved in music is super rational. I don't know what you'd think of that. That creative intuition is is is a super rational thing so we can get into the positions of the philosophers on Music vis-a-vis concepts but do you think that's a reasonable position to take. Yes and no. I think one has to distinguish What we mean by super irrational the way I like to look at it as you're pushing me here. I'm in thought of this stuff. And so in the years. Teach other courses super rational usually refers in theology to the gifts of the Holy Spirit pulling your intellect your knowledge of the faith into a deeper understanding. I would say that. It's certainly not unrest channel. It's certainly not sub rational like an end of it. Somehow I'd say it's beyond rational because it entails something more than a equals b will see a staples G. R. A. Plus Gee Chee. It's not that kind of with music arts. We have an absolute concrete certitude about being on our again in the six. Yeah I've thought of this in years and years and years you've got me here now that's great though might be Russian but not against it advertisement. It's not above the truth but it somehow in the truth is an aspect of truth. That's different from Rasool sedation truth. That's it or as looming shock. Mary ten put it one time in us. This goes back way back in art and scholasticism. You don't get a knowledge you don't discover knowledge in the arts you get Experience of being in being in art the touches the intellect. It's not right knowledge of being incident. Experience of being soon. That sense is different from reason that it will be the best way. I put it on floundering here. Since you push so my other sort of thing to to provoke philosophers would would be to say. Music is higher than philosophy. Philosophy tells us about reality but music adds new things to reality in fact it so in music you're actually making more reality in a sense whereas philosophy not making lesser getting. You're discovering but also you're now into the whole issue of loss of deals primarily with the truth of being and the truth of mobile being the truth of the cosmos whereas the arts treat with beauty beauty is separate category or a separate transcendental if you will of of being and so can you say being as higher well yes and no from the depends on what you're looking for we have to. Sometimes you know what's right and wrong. Not Certainly better than the listening to bucks of Brandenburg. Sure does but on the other hand you need to listen to box. Cheryl's for other purposes in other reasons so onto the next clip from my interview in episode fourteen priests and actor with Jesuit priest. Father George grants in this clip. Father George who is a wonderful actor and teaches theater at Fordham University? Discusses this pressure that actors feel to take morally compromising roles and the the kind of lie that they're told that you you have to accept every role or you won't get ahead in your career early on so he talks about the necessity to take custody of your career with with integrity moral and artistic as a young actor and some of the ways that you can have a fruitful life as an actor even in those Those down times when you don't have any work and sort of in general how it's necessary to reject worldly conceptions of success. It's it's a really wonderful Clip and I think very valuable for any aspiring actors or spiring artists. And I think for anybody who's looking to have a career and a life in the world with moral integrity. You talked a bit about having to turn down certain roles and choosing your all's careful even if it might not be a role that is morally compromising exactly but you have a sense of who you are as an artist as well as a priest and what fits in with what. You're trying to do an artist of course but I'm sort of curious because I know a lot of actors. It can be very difficult and especially in a in the world of something like experimental theater where it's like anything goes to a certain degree. How do you navigate that especially as an actor who starting Allen doesn't have as much of the luxury so to speak of picking your roles that you play? And how was that personally for you? What was that awkward at times or well when I first started out as an actor when I didn't have a whole lot of voice in the industry what I noticed was that there is something within the actor that thinks unless I do everything according to the way that they want me to do it. I'll never work again. I realize that that is the voice of the devil. I realized that that is not something that I ought to be listening to that anyone ought to be listening to. It's it's it's a voice of fear. It's voice that shuts you down creatively and it's a voice that makes you inauthentic. It actually makes your work worse because you're trying to be something else that you think they want to be well. I came to the conclusion that I am who I am and I m who god made me and if I were to go against that how could I give in authentic performance? So what I began doing was began really choosing who I wanted to work with. I remember having a conversation my agent and after a while he he was sending me out on things and I had to tell him why. I was turning down certain things and why I wasn't for him. It was about the money it was about the opportunity to get exposure. All of the things that you think about commercially. I said well you know I'm just not interested in those things. I have different interests and doing it this way well. I explained to him about my priesthood. He actually started working with me before he knew I was a priest so I said well this is again. This is who I am and these are the kinds of things that I wanted to do now. A lot of people think that in order to work in the industry you can't take that amount of real ownership of your own career that you have to kind of cow tower. You have to just take. What's there on a certain level? That might be the truth. But why would I want to go there? Why would I want to do those things? I had a very funny instance once where I had just done. Cymbeline at the Delacour Theater New York Shakespeare Festival I was in the ensemble one of the solo singers in in the ghost. Seen in the last part of the play and you know so I was with a friend of mine and we were with his agent afterward and she said you look really familiar and I said well I was in so and so's class and you know we we work together. You probably saw the thesis production. She said Oh. Yeah I love your work. It's really great and then my friend said Oh Jorge's a priest. Her face changed completely and she got that kind of like look like she was chewing on a lemon or something and she said Oh. So does that mean that. There's a certain work that you wouldn't do and I said quite naturally well. I would like to think that there would be certain work that I wouldn't do even if I were in a priest. But that concept doesn't seem to be something that's really out there in the industry or if it does it it seems like it's only something that you earn a you get to. I realized for myself that I had to take ownership a better word might be. I had to take custody. I had to take custody of my career and let people know that this is not just my career. It's God's career and what I do now is I. Wait to see what comes along. I weigh certain possibilities. And if there's something that I really think is is where God is calling me. That's where all put my focus. I've been very blessed over the years that choosing who I work with choosing the kinds of projects that I want what happens. Is People Begin to understand my work a little bit more the understand my desires and then the right projects come along the right things come my way and in those times where. I don't have anything. There's plenty of work of my own that I wanNA work on. One of the things was translating this Calderon piece that we were speaking about earlier. Yeah I'd love to get the bad net in a little bit so it sounds like from what you're saying that talking about as picking and choosing your work as a luxury you know at least in moral terms as a luxury for people who are at a higher level in their career is really false is just a necessity for your artistic integrity as much as your moral integrity as a human being. I think that's the truth and I think people think that in order for success to come there is a one way blueprint or trajectory that you have to follow and if people are terrorized about making mistakes along the way that could ruin their career or that could not open the degree of success that they believe is. There's as far as I'm concerned. I think the degree of the success that I'm enjoying today is the degree of success that God wants me to have and if it's going to give glory to his name that's wonderful if it's better that I accompany people on another level or devote time to my teaching or devote time to any of my other pursuits. Then that's fine too but we're so put upon in this country to define our success by what the market says that a lot of times people don't even realize how much they are swept up into current of the market so that they can't give themself the beauty and the joy of seeing that in God's eyes they already are a success in God's eyes. They already are everything that they need to be. We continue to work at ourselves. We continuous John. Paul the second said to work on the masterpiece that is our own life and if we do that with God. We're going to be happy by enlarge if we compromise a certain things. It's one of those things. That's that's really up to the heart and the conscience of every actor but for them. Sometimes you'll hear people say well I didn't have a choice. I had to take that. Well I mean there are economic concerns. There are other things but can I trust that. Everything's going to work out. If I really take the work that is most meaningful to me. That might mean that. I HAVE TO MAKE CERTAIN FINANCIAL SACRIFICES. That might mean that. I'm unable to do certain things that I would like to be able to do with a little bit more of an advantage one way or the other but I have to constantly weigh those things and to say. Well where is God calling me at the moment? And what does this choice allow to happen? Not only for me but also for the ministry that I find myself in. Yeah it's interesting. I was talking to a person. Previously on this podcast. About how even tenured professors who are about as secure as you can get are often unwilling to face disapproval. I speaking what they believe to be true. And and yet you hear people saying well when I get tenure. I'LL SPEAK OUT MORE DESK. Just self deception on a certain level and it's the same with that. I mean if you're a slave to the world than you're a slave to you're going to continue to be a slave to the world when you when you make it big. It may manifest itself in different ways. But it's it's still going to be the same basic dynamic that you're playing out in the career choices that you make and there are ways in which that idea of of slaves is a good one because we basically forge our own chains by the choices that we make. Am I going to be chained to someone's idea of WHO I am? Am I going to be chained to what people very funny thing? If you ever go into a casting office they have these labels that they put on on how they see you commercially. They're going to say well. This person falls into that slot in this person falls into that slot in the commercial world. There are different casting directors. Who really don't know where to put me or who put me one place and another casting. Director puts me in a completely different place because they've had the advantage and and the ability to play so many vastly different roles and to work on so many vastly different projects. So I mean for some people they would say that. That's that's kind of like not really smart career management because you should find your type you should know what it is and you should always play in that. Well that sounds like something where that's going to guarantee that you get to do work on other people's terms but it doesn't really seem to foster kind of ability to do the kind of work that you feel you really call to and so even in the Times where I'm not getting a whole lot of commercial work. I find. Those are the perfect times to really focus on the projects that I wanNA develop later that I want to be prepared for that. I want to explore on my own. I think a lot of it just boils down to trust. Can I trust that God is going to show me what it is? That's GONNA be best from my work right now and if it looks like things are a little precarious because of one or another circumstance. Can I trust that God is actually leading me through this? Not as a problem but as a way to really discover. What is the deepest reality that God wants me to consider that God wants me to look at and that God wants me to operate from? I heard a comedian. Wants describe actor as as cups waiting to be filled by coffey because they they don't create their own work they are waiting to be hired by someone. But it sounds like there's a great practical advantage here to integrate freedom in having an interior life as an actor and creating your own work so they are not entirely subject to what people decide to offer you at any given moment. Even if it's just the interior work on your craft and the privacy of your own home even if you're not writing scripts or anything like that sounds like that's there's a real aside from the fulfillment of the work itself. There's a real advantage to be had there of independence whether you're making any money on it or not. Absolutely that's so true Thomas I I remember something that a teacher told us in graduate school. She said I'm going to give you the greatest secret about practice. The greatest secret about practice is that you do it now. Why is that the greatest secret because people say they have practice and then when they feel like it's too much or they feel tired or they feel frustrated? They abandoned the practice. But artistic practice spiritual practice are things that you really make a commitment to and if you can make the commitment that no matter what they're saying the people that are holding the Carafe of coffee you as a cup can be filled with whatever it is that you want to be. And if they're not pouring the coffee in right now fill it with something else. Fill it with your own practice with your own work. In a lot of ways the spiritual practice in the artistic practice stem from the same place. They stemmed from the belief that God is active in the world and that we as co creators with God we commit ourselves to seeking that to observing it and to be able to point to it for others. I think a good spiritual life does that I think a good artistic life does that. So how can I use my down time to really work on? Something that I think is a beautiful piece of art work on a monologue that I think is really going to be a good thing for me to do as an artist that really helps me to explore certain things sometimes to on material for my craft that I think might be pointed at some of the spiritual questions that I have. You know to bring my prayer into some of my analysis in my work and my laying the foundation within my creative work. I remember once in a rehearsal as a director. I was talking to an actor and I said how's your prayer life. And she said I. I don't think anyone's ever asked me that in a rehearsal before I said well you know I am asking for it in this in this particular scene. This person's really struggling spiritually with someone with something. How can you relate to that? So many of the things especially in the classic works the spiritual reality is just as deep as the physical reality. But because it's a question that we've brushed aside a lot of people now who who look at Shakespeare who look at Spanish Golden Age who look at the Ancient Greeks. They look at it. At a particularly secular God stripped worldview as opposed to looking at in a way where where the idea of divine presence is actually charging the the decisions and the steaks and all of the work that my character is doing that. The dramatic action of the piece is based on. It seems to me that it's better to be not a fulltime artist than to. Well let me put that differently because an artist is an artist no matter what he's doing but not a full time career artist than to be an artist in a way that compromises your artistic nature and I think people need to realize there's no shame in having a day job and being an artist himself over the greatest artists in history. Have that I think of Nathaniel. Hawthorne he was a Customs Officer I think Paul Gauguin was a stockbroker. Anton Chekhov was a physician. So this idea that success is determined by your ability to support yourself with your craft or with your art. That's a very recent idea. And that if you are supporting yourself by something else. You're dismissed as an artist or your questioned as an artist that mentality. I think there's just really no place for it. It's an artificial mentality and it really doesn't help anyone. I think there are many different ways of measuring artistic success and I think what you were talking about. Before of. What's better what's worse. I wouldn't really want to prescribe that. I think anyone is going to find their own path. But I would hope that they would realize that they don't have to be bound by other people's impressions of what a success. Is that again as I said earlier? We already have the greatest success. Which is God's complete and unconditional love? Everything else is just decoration. But as far as I'm concerned I don't need to be more successful than that everything that I do. I want to give glory to God because of that gift. Everything else that I do. I want to invite others into the joy of what that means and I WANNA create opportunities to embody that in my work. But I don't WanNa be judged by some kind of market a determination of of what a success is. I think the question much bigger. The next clips will be taken from episodes fifteen and sixteen In which I interviewed Corey Olsen whose best known as the Tolkien professor in the first episode we had discussed his online institution of Higher Learning Signal University and the potential in online education. In general in the second part of the interview we did a very lengthy Q. and A. On all things middle earth but the clips all be playing for you from both episodes which just play a back to back are both related to Tolkien. I A shorter clip from the first episode talking about some of the differences between CS Lewis and Tolkien in their approach to writing fiction and the second clip is a lengthy discussion of the character of Aylwin in Lord of the Rings in which I thought that Professor Olsen just had some really wonderful insights. About what the characters of alien and fair Amir say about the lower and higher cultures of ro Han and Gondar. So here's me with Corey Olsen and again there'll be a clip from episode fifteen and then a clip from episode sixteen Royston ship between Lewis Studies and talking studies. Really interesting right on the one hand they go hand in hand and everybody knows that you know. There's this sort of natural interest in Louis or token that comes as a package deal right with interest in the other one and yet the two of them are so different that very often people who are great lovers of Louis. Great Lovers of Tolkien. Don't just have a hard time getting into the other so it's kind of a well. I won't say love hate relationship because that's that's far too strong but there's a sort of a complex relationship in some ways so that's not to say that there's an active bias against Louis in many of our students but it's but a love of Lewis is certainly not automatic as an accompaniment to Tolkien fans like well. I my personal opinion. I like Louis but I wouldn't put him up there with Tolkien as a as a fiction. Writer right as a fiction writer. No though again. It's so I find it so hard to directly compare them I teach. I Love Louis. Absolutely love Lewis. I'm but I love Lewis at least as much for his nonfiction as for his fiction. It's yet if I only had Louis fiction in all I had was chronicles of Narnia. And Space Trilogy. Okay if I had the chronicles non-energy Noni and the space trilogy. I would definitely consider Lewis among the sort of interesting but certainly well below tolkien till we have faces however is by far the most brilliant piece of fiction. Lewis ever wrote and I would will say this up with. I mean really. I up with anything that Tolkien wrote and that is that is very very high praise. I mean it's still different but my goodness it is. It is just incredible so Lewis did right one. Incredible luminous orca fiction and that is till we have faces. But anyway you know. Obviously I wouldn't give the chronicles of Narnia up. If I if I were asked and I do love Louis my own kind of complicated relationship between the two of them is that I have loved talking ever since I was a child but Lewis is like my best friend. I don't know it's almost like it's almost like the difference between your best friend and your wife. You know talking talking. My wife is my best friend. Lewis is the person who he thinks talks like me like when I listen to Lewis. Talk I am like hearing someone who speaks on my wavelength and you know he redresses me right where I am and whereas with talking it's I love it but I love it in part because it strange talking does not think like me you know and I would never thinking right like he does and find myself in the in awe of the things that talking does and I love to sort of contemplate it and appreciate it and obviously I've been doing that quite a lot for a long time now but yeah it's just it's just. They're so they're so different. Yeah and that goes what you said there goes right along with what. Lewis says about friendship and the four loves in terms of. When you're the you're looking more at the same thing then you are looking at each other absolutely. Yeah I sort of would metaphorically speaking not thinking of the actual Tweed quoted Don himself. But yes I sort of. I gazed lovingly into tokens face. Right whereas Lewis and I sit shoulder to shoulder working on the same project absolutely. Does this have anything to do with confession to you or is it? Is it just a matter of personality? Well I mean I I mostly personality. I don't think the difference in the confessions of Louis Untold Gain. Make that much of a difference to me. I'm sure it does influence me but I think probably. It's a little bit more indirect than that at the end of the day. The number one thing is this is Also give a spoiler of my overall conclusion that I drew at the end of the I taught. I. I've taught now twice a Louis and talking cars at CIGNA. Where and the goal of that course was not just like. Hey let's do. A survey of Tolkien's works in some loses works but instead I was trying to look at win. The two of them are doing very similar kinds of projects when they're both undertaking a similar kind of imaginative thing. Right so for instance I looked at the hobbit and I looked at the lion the witch and the wardrobe as two moments when the two them are essentially telling a fairytale like something which is in the general genre of you know someone from our world wanders into a fairy tale and the adventures that he has the habit of course. Isn't that in its frame. It doesn't involve you know any humans from our world going into ferry but it Kinda does. Bill is kind of that he. He's not exactly. But it's very much the spirit of the hobbit and a lot of ways and anyway so this is just kind of an illustration of one of the things that I did in that class and in the end by conclusion. Bear talking about Lewis and Tolkien is that I would say. In essence at at his heart of hearts token is a poet at his heart of hearts. Lewis is a teacher and he neither one of them can turn it off and it is what they both are willing to sacrifice everything else for. Tolkien will sacrifice the teaching points right. He will sacrifice not that he will sacrifice the substance of doctrine. But he will he will sacrifice the conveying of doctrine right. He will risk being completely misunderstood and people coming away with a completely wrong impression from his books as many people have done I would. I would argue because of the thing that he's trying to capture right because of the thing that he's trying to he's trying to express to convey this sort of thing that he is discovering unfolding. And if you know whether or not people understand it whether they draw the correct conclusions from it that's not his primary concern with Lewis is a teacher and he can't help himself. You know he he is. It's not that the his works are merely pedantic or something like that. It's not that they're purely pedagogical in their intention from one end to the other they are driven by Artistic Vision I. I'm not trying to suggest that they're not but again at the end of the day. If he has to choose between you know sort of achieving the artistic vision and conveying his points clearly inaccurately he does the latter and that is ultimately for me. What the difference is. I'm not a poet. I am a teacher. I am not a poet and I have the same. You know many of the same kinds of strengths and weaknesses. That Lewis does and of very few of the same strengths and weaknesses. That tolkien does so to me. That's what it kind of comes down to. I love poetry but I. I've never successfully written a poem in my life Sam Games. You might say a few comic rhymes every now and again but not real. Not which Samuel Poetry? So so. Yeah I but I love it I admire it and in part admire it because I can't do it but anyway in the end I think now do. I think that they're that they're you know they're they're different. Confessions influences that yes I do. I mean I certainly. The way in which talking was very hesitant about Lewis's program of doctrinal works? You know the way. The token was always uncomfortable with that. Because Lois was not a priest. He's like who are you like? Why are you doing this and I have to admit that I I? I am one hundred percent in sympathy with Lewis's motivations thoughts about why he did that and and I know in the same position always I like to think I would do the same thing and that in part I know is is informed by the fact that you know had I been raised in the you know product in product into Catholic environment. That talking had maybe my you know my reactions to that might be sort of condition a little differently so in in some of those ways. I do think that the confession matters. But but it's not in the sense of it's it's it's kind of in that way in the sense in. Lucca culture sense rather than in a sort of agreement disagreement on any sort of particular doctrine. Only or anything that kind of sense. That's really interesting My roommate one of my one of the guys Erin apartment with who is actually a Lewis Scholar. He was wondering about the issue of obligation and duty. Vocation with Aylwin How do you look at her obligation and stay to stay home and obey orders and protect the HQ versus her? What you could call an obligation in so far as it's part of prophecy to full to slay the witch king. Yeah that is really interesting. Yeah because she transgresses right I mean she she breaks the commandment that she was under and so does Mary Right. Both of them are breaking phaetons orders and yet it is obviously good that they did so had they not done so then there would have been promise. Of course we have to keep in mind. This is happening literally all over the place right. Does the same thing far. Baragan does the same thing right breaking orders and yet it being good for them to have done so so in the context of the way in which does the same thing right you know. He was ordered by did not to pursue the arts and yet he did and it was a darn good thing that he did right so we get a hope. Don't you think that aliens motivations are critiqued more than theirs are yeah well? And they're certainly more dubious. I mean certainly comparing it to Amir right you know. Amer had very good reasons for defying as Gandalf says wormtongue speaking with that in the mouth right so it's not even really phaetons will that he's defying in doing what he's doing whereas with a and it is his will hide and it's not like she went there knowing that like. Oh I have to go because I'm the only person who can play the which is absolutely yeah. I mean that's not that's not on the table. That's about how it turns out right. It's not about that's entirely hindsight right. That suggests that it was the right thing to do for that reason. So yeah but at the same time although her her motivations the way in which her her motivations come in for heavier critique are not necessarily in the breaking of the almost nobody even mentions her breaking of the commandment right. I mean she's I think actually literally never chastise always as far as we hear for doing the wrong thing in breaking phaetons command even in abandoning her post which is pretty much Ryan. She did in coming along. Nobody says nobody in the text anyway says boo about that. Zor The issue the place where we think are invited to critique a Owen is when she's explaining our motivation right when she's inner conversation with far Amir when it was clear that she came not because like Amir. She had duty to do and felt that she had to do that. Duty even in defiance of the Lord's explicit will when the Lord you know as Phaeton says to Gandalf says death or rather you know others can resist your will win just turned to madness and evil right win the command that Amer is given by his Lord is clearly not only turned to madness and evil derived from madness and evil right through wormtongue. He's clearly in the right to do the right thing. Even though it's been forbidden to him to do the right thing ame alien is not doing that. She is going off seeking death. She wants to die because she I mean she's it's by her own expression. It's almost like a a species of suicide that she was attempting to commit. And it's a question about where she finds values. The thing. That frustrates me. Most I have to admit about responses to farm your at. Ao Discussion are the way in which it tends to be. Many people in their readings tend to sort of read it in a gendered way in a very simplistic kind of gendered. Way As if saying I want to be able to do all these things that men do. But then in the end she's tamed right and she agrees to just like be docile woman again and that is so not what is happening with her. She sees in that way right. All your words are but to say I am a woman and my places in the House. Right. I'm not saying it's out of nowhere that people were getting this kind of thing that's how Ao and herself sees it but alien herself is wrong about that. The key to what's going on with Aylwin and especially with Allen and far Amir there at the end is in farm years conversation with Frodo earlier on in a billion when he's talking about you know not loving the warrior for his strength in the Arrow for its UH swiftness and the sword for its sharpness. You know he talks about how those who see battle in war as an end in itself who see they're the only value and the only virtue of being a hero in Battle of of dying a noble in valiant death. That's not the highest path that's an overly simplistic view of the world. That's a debased view of the world. You know the king not because of you know the extent to which he kicked spot on the battlefield you know the king because he has the hands of a healer right when when at the end says I shall be an shield maiden no longer I shall be a healer right i. She's GonNa she's going to grow and nurture things again. It superficially that looks like I am leaving the masculine sphere and I am reentering the feminine sphere. But it's not the feminine sphere. It is the sphere of far Amir. The Greatest Captain News the sphere of Era Gordon that defined him as king. It's the fear of L Ron. The greatest of healers in law masters. It is not a feminine thing to want to heal and grow things it. Is this fear of Samways. The Gardner right from the Shire where gardeners are held in high honour to nurture life and to focus on healing things instead of just defining yourself as a warrior again. That's not about masculine versus feminine. That's about achieving wisdom and a new and positive and better outlook on life in the world. And what you value in. What's good so it's a moment of profound growth in hewing for a and it is very far from get back in the kitchen you know. That's it's just. It's not a nine hundred fifty house placing at all. I think is just to To miss a really profound element of like the whole central values of the story. Really if you were going to draw something political from it I I suppose you could say you know. Beware OF INCLUSION FOR. Its own sake at the expense of the actual point of the thing that you're being included in well yes exactly to get overly political with it but it's also worth noting just simply that whatever motivations might have been. They were personal motivations. They were personal fires. I it wasn't a matter fulfilling duty right or anything like that. It's also worth saying. I guess that just because you're prophesied to do something doesn't mean that the steps that you took ended up fulfilling that prophecy are good and also it's not that it could have played out some other way if she didn't she didn't go right. Yeah and also the yet exactly I just I would reemphasize both of those things. You're right her. Motivations were personal and flawed. Her motivations were on expression of the really pretty bad psychological and spiritual place that she was in you know and so yes very sort of questionable in that regard. And you're absolutely right. I think there's A. There's a wide gap between a prophesied out. Come into vocation. There was never a vocation laid on her to slay the witch king. It was prophesied that. That's how the witch king would die but that's different for. That was a foretelling foresight. Right this is by the way. This is how it's going to happen right. It has been vows about saved to me to know how things are going to go. Down is not the same as and therefore solemn duty is laid upon you to fulfill it because it never is she does even also. She wasn't specified know exactly. She wants to marry could've done it on his his own somehow. Of course he was breaking the rules to know exactly. And when you think about this even from its thinking about it if you think about is prophecy and not just mere for telling but but even if you think about it. More like prophecy in the sense of being told what should happen. In addition to being told you know just like knowing in advance what is going to happen. There's there's a lot of times you know. You don't have to look very far in the Bible to find examples of things which happen which are sort of good big picture but don't necessarily mean that the decisions that people made in getting there are there. I mean Samson jumps to mind as somebody who makes one disastrous decision after another and yet the will of God is done through his actions surface action in many cases so certainly you know the idea that just because something great and good is accomplished through your actions does not necessarily mean you were choice. You've made up to. That has been justified by it. You know what's really cool? Is that when you get the higher value system that fair Mir has? That's actually where men women can meet on an equal level because even in a culture where you have shield maidens and you do have women warriors women are just not going to meet men as equals on the battlefield. By you know when you're talking about healing and growing and all that stuff Women you know definitely have their own they can meet men and on that level and they even have their own specific advantages in some ways. Yes and that's true. I mean if you think about as she departs that sort of ethical world in which valor on the battlefield is all that truly matters and enters sort of this higher world of Gondar and Afar Amino of ancient condor and the far Amir in which yes the nourishing and healing and giving of life is what matters. You're absolutely right. She's grudging the fact that as a woman she's not allowed to gain honor that world that she comes into there at the end of that healthier world is more inclusive. You know let us go and together make a garden. You know that this farm years invitation and when he proposes to her. That's like the premise of you. Know let us let us live together in the infrared affiliation and they're making garden like the both of them right or no so yes and you can both achieve equal honor in that. It's like you know yes. Women should be allowed to be lawyers. They want but there's a problem if you think that. That's the highest the highest honor and the highest goal to pursue. Who could almost say the lack of inclusiveness that the exclusion of women from honor among the Rohero among that kind of warrior culture is a symptom? That's like a giveaway. That's tell right. It betrays the fact that there's something diseased about that ethical system because not how it should be. It is also interesting because there are shield maidens but we don't really get a sense of what they actually do because the only one we see right so yeah it's not like an absolute necessarily an absolute exclusion. But at the same time. I mean when she when she's complaining about exclusion and talking about being a woman in her places in the home. She's not wrong. I mean she. There must be some basis in experience for that absolutely absolutely and I think that her perception of the fact that men have greater opportunity of Gandalf says this to Amir right when he asks. Am here to think back to their experience and how different it was for him as a man compared to how it was for am and the opportunities that he had to win honor and to do something to help you know that he had you know. Horses and deeds of arms. And every she had you know she didn't have anything GANDALF RECOGNIZE. Yes like alien is right. This there were not equal opportunities in row. Han and I and I I. I think that gambles clear implication and I think the implication of Wairoa and ends up suggests that the the more sort of equal terms that higher virtue that sort of higher view of of the world right the fact that it is more inclusive is a sign that it's it is better is higher right because Gandalf isn't saying we need more women on the front battle you know regardless of the effect it has on the actual outcome of the battle. You know he's looking at it from a whole different plane of values which I think is really cool thing that we've stumbled on. I've actually I mean people have talked about this who certain degree but I've never thought about it in those terms before. Yeah Yeah No. I think it's really neat. It's one of the as I say I get. I get kind of frustrated with people who do a really superficial sort of feminist reading of that and read this as token really you know just sort of furthering traditional gender roles by you know turning a Owen is dangerous because she is a woman who is transgressing into the masculine arena and then she is safely transported back into the Feminine Marina at the end and that reading. Just drives me bonkers. Because it's it's so shallow and really kind of misses the whole. I think at the they're the last clip. I'm GONNA play for. You is from episode. Seventeen a civics lesson for Catholics with former Virginia delegate. Bob Marshall Bob Isn't really really awesome guy He was really a politician with integrity. You know the the rare case of that. The interview was about a book He had out from ten books in two thousand. Eighteen called reclaiming the republic how Christians and other conservatives can win back America and it is a very practical book due to his great knowledge of the Constitution of legal history and his decades of experience within the political system. So it's both kind of an argument for why. Catholics should not give up engagement in the political sphere and a practical how to guide for Keeping your representatives on their toes and engaging local politics and things like that so the I'm going to play two clips from this actually. The first is a short one where he just talks about. Scriptural arguments for the necessity in the moral obligation of Catholics to engage in politics even in a situation where it might seem hopeless and then the rest of it will deal with his role in passing the Hyde Amendment which stopped abortion funding via Medicaid. And some very interesting information which I I'm betting most of you didn't know about I certainly didn't until I read his book about how Congress has such control over the power of the purse that they can even decide what cases the Supreme Court can hear which I know sounds crazy but he totally backs it up with precedent and with With law. So you'll want to hear that. So here's the clip with Bob Marshall from episode. Seventeen a civics lesson for Catholics. A lot of Catholics seem to be a little bit cynical at this point about the possibility of changing things through politics. So what would be your your sort of briefest argument for why? It's too early to give up the hope of changing things to be a political means. Well go back and salvation history in knowledge and the operation of the government was a necessary condition for those people involved in salvation history site. You three people number one. Joseph with the coat of many colors was sold into slavery but he became the vice regent the second in command in the Kingdom of Egypt. He knew the Egyptian laws inside and out and it was his knowledge of this which was instrumental in saving the people that were chosen by God to carry the message of one. God Interventional Redeemer. That wasn't direct salvation knowledge but it was knowledge of how the civic order works. Second person who had a intimate knowledge of the Civil Order was Moses? Moses was raised in the courts of Pharaoh and he could go in and talk to Pharaoh. I just can't go down to Washington. Dc and knock on the door of the White House and demanded talk to Donald Trump. I just can't do it but I know of ways to get that done so you have to have the knowledge of the civic order and I would suggest you. That's why God pit bulls those people for the intricacies and the parks they played in salvation history and the third one is explicit as you can get when. Saint Paul was having a rough time with the equivalent the Jewish Senate called the San Hadrian. They wanted to. They went to festus. Who was the governor of their Roman province down there and they wanted to take jurisdiction over Paul in. Stop Him from speaking about Christ. Who was resurrected in heap again? This is a civil trial. You wouldn't see this in the United States but nevertheless that was going on so this basically was a first amendment question question being was the Roman Governor. GonNa turn over Paul so that the Jewish government could stop him from speaking and Paul said. Wait a minute festus. I mean obviously didn't use those words but he said look you cannot turn me over to another jurisdiction which claims soup which would be in effect claiming superiority to Rome and this would have been you know the death sentence for Festus to to do that and he says well. Why can't I do it in? Pulse? I'm a Roman citizen. You can't turn me over to this alien jurisdiction in Festus said you're right to roam you go so in what was essentially a fight over freedom of speech. Paul appealed to Caesar and he won. So if Saint Paul could do it if Joseph could do it if Moses can do it. We certainly should be doing this. I mean Christ says to be. The light of the world will electricity turned on. How can you be the light of the world any says rendered a Caesar the things that are Caesar's if you don't know the rules that Caesar is supposed to operate by you won't know if he's making a just claim or not so to render to Caesar you have to know the structure of caesars world. So here you've got Christ saying to do this so as long as you're in this world you are within this earthly kingdom and you're gonNA operate within these laws so t for you. To throw up towel is really to be not complying with Christ's command to render the seizure. Because you're ignoring Caesar or you're running from season. You really shouldn't do either. How is it that the so-called precedent set by federal judges effectively becomes the constitution in people's minds or or becomes an amendment to the constitution without an amendment actually taking place because the members of Congress don't challenge and in part they don't challenge it because they're satisfied with leading the Supreme Court take responsibility off their back from doing something so they can blame Congress for doing something or not? Doing something. Say my hands are tied? Well let me let me give an example and I think I put this in the book. I worked for several years for congressman. Bob Dornan in in that time. I devised amendments cutting off money for a abortions in the district of Columbia in foreign aid Indian reservations. All this kind of stuff anyway. In prior that as a private citizen I divides the Hyde Amendment in one thousand nine hundred seventy six a friend of mine who was with the FBI he would be was into the FBI time but he worked actually for a pro-life group called Ad Hoc Committee and Defensive Life. He did a freedom of information request to what was then called the Department of Health Education and Welfare and he got back a response which was kind of amazing and he was told that this was like in nineteen late nineteen seventy-five got this back. He was told for the time period he was requesting there was about two hundred eighty or two hundred and eighty some thousand children killed by abortion with tax money. He showed this to me and I was flabbergasted. I thought this is outrageous. One for the abortion number to use tax money for it in three Congress never authorized these expenditures. Like this so he gave this to me and he said let's do something about it so I said okay. I went to a congressman that I had known from a group when I was in college called. Young Americans for freedom started by the Buckley family up in New York. The Guy who used to be the editor of National Review and his brother was us. Senator Anyway I pulled him off. The floor of Congress showed him the equal response that my fan had received from the Department of Health Education and Welfare and suggested that he devised an amendment on the appropriate on the money. Bill or the appropriations bill for the Department of Health and Welfare to prohibit you some money for that purpose so he said you know. There's a freshman here who might be interested in this. I said okay so I gave him the documents and some suggestions for an amendment. At about six weeks later I read the paper in Lo and behold it was Henry Hyde offered the amendment on the appropriations bill for hew into that started the Hyde amendment. Now the reason you do the budget or the money bill specially with Congress is because normally a bill has to receive. What's called a rule to be considered that means in the House of Representatives which is much more structured than the Senate. You have to have permission to offer an amendment if it's an ordinary bill like saying you can't fly kites on the mall in Washington. Dc or something like this but on the money bills they're kind of open ended and there's not normally a rule granted so you can throw any amendment on you once you can't spend money for X. or I'm increasing the expenditure for why so. The rules don't constrict the ability to offer the amendments as much and from nineteen seventy-three the year of the Supreme Court decision on abortion. One thousand nine hundred seventy six. I think only one measure dealt with abortion and add actually was because of an amendment that I drew up for the Legal Services Corporation. That was the office of Economic Opportunities. Litigation arm to help poor people where they were helping. Poor people killed their kids which I thought was again outrageous and they acted the research in the row. Indo abortion decisions. The background research. So the tax payers were paying to kill kids and they're paying to pay the lawyers to figure out how to have freedom to do the killing of the kids without any restraints also again. This is all more. -rageous will the appropriations amendment passed? And it's still law. All they've added beyond the life of the mother rape and incest was. I didn't like but I wasn't in charge of to do that. But the fact that we can get the amendment on there was interesting now of course planned. Parenthood challenged it now. The reason that I wanted to do a money amendment dealing with abortion will because in my mind Congress cannot afford to lose the power over the purse to the judiciary if they do what good are they. Then you can have unelected judges saying where you're going to spend money for a dam or airplanes or not or ships or whatever and the elected representatives of the people have no control over the budget that that's not GonNa happen so what I thought. Congress cannot afford to lose the appropriations power and sure enough. The Hyde Amendment was challenged. Couple years. Go by and the the case was of mccray versus Harris and by five to four decision. That was very close but anyway the the court agreed. Congress camp before I you know compelled to spend money on abortion well so one day. I'm in the Capitol building and I'm with Congressman Dornan. Who was my boss? And I was one of his legislative sessions and Charlie. Rangel comes over to us that he say it kind of a lovable rogue guy you know. Catholic background but just as liberal as they come and for abortion. He fought in the Korean War so he military service that for the country but he was bad on abortion anyway he came over to us and he said look you guys you know that you and I differ on abortion news. Talk to be the Congressman Dornan said. Yeah we know he said but I'll tell you what he meant. He initiated this conversation in a Kaz. Rangel was part of the conference on this one. Bill Dorman was a conferee. He said if the Supreme Court had concluded that they were going to make us spend money on abortion that was to Hyde amendment. He told doernen congressman. Dornan myself is. I would've put in coach tripping bills faster than you would have now. The interesting part here is. Rangel voted against voted against the Hyde amendment. He wanted to spend tax money on abortion. But he knew the court said. We're ordering you to spend money on abortion. He loses the power over the purse so it validated my thinking that Congress can't afford to lose it because you would even annoy the liberals on that so the power of the purse and again I reference say a quote from James Madison. Who's considered the the father of the constitution around this? And I and I give examples of types of amendments that cut off funding for various things and I put some suggestions in their dealing with the right to live question or their so called same sex marriage question would be some examples of how appropriations bill could be used to blunt the fact of Supreme Court decisions such as Burger fell okay. That's really simple. If you read the appropriations bills and you can learn how to read them by reading my book you will find that. They put limits. The House Appropriations Committee puts limits on the amount of money. The judges can spend for automobiles or perceptions. It's it's right in there. They can only spend so much money in your head. The CHIEF JUSTICE GOES OVER TO CONGRESS IN. A committee room. Wears a business suit and ask or Biz begging Congress for money to run the Federal Court system? You always think of the Supreme Court justices wearing black gowns. That he's immune nobody touches him. There's a sort of sanctity or some ethereal nece. It's not there. They have to ask Congress for the money to run the court. You GotTa pay pay the clerks. The heat delight the all this kind of stuff to pay to buy the law books. You could say no money for a court order to a state to comply with over. Go fill period. You could say you. You'RE NOT GONNA pay any on the appropriations bill that affects the Justice Department and the courts you can simply state no money for any court order to compel a college to provide dormitories for same. Sex married couples. You can do that. And it's perfectly legal because Congress has the power of the purse but the citizens have to know this and they've got to convey this than to members of Congress that number one. I know what you can do and I know what you can't do so don't tell me that the courts make you do things. No they don't. I put all these little dodgers in my book that are used to full citizens into despair. Will you don't have to despair? I put if as a roadblock put away around it already everybody I hope you enjoyed those clips and Yeah feel free to go and check some of those episodes out. You haven't heard them already. I'm preparing to record interviews on the aesthetics of Saint John Henry Newman and classical Christian education among other things again. Let me remind you of our Easter Challenge with the thirty one thousand dollars matching grant You can go to Catholic culture dot org slash donate slash audio and again. It will be very much appreciated. God bless you and I'll see you next time.

Lewis Amir Tolkien Mary Right Louis Virginia Gondar professor Louisville West Father Basil Paul Gauguin Director Gandalf Corey Olson Father George Bob Marshall Fordham George Grants
French Polynesia Cruise: Should It Be On Your Travel Bucket List ?

Tips for Travellers Podcast

10:29 min | 1 year ago

French Polynesia Cruise: Should It Be On Your Travel Bucket List ?

"Should've French Polynesian crews be on your travel bucket list hi. I'm Gary Benbridge. This is another tips Atanas. I'm GonNa tell you where the I think. French Polynesian cruise should be on your bucket list. I'm GonNa give you full good reasons. Why should be and four key? Watch outs with recommendation about what I think. You should actually do festival. Let's talk a little bit about what is French. Polynesia there are a hundred eighteen islands spread across a vast area of over one thousand two hundred miles two thousand kilometers in the South Pacific Ocean. Only sixty seven of those are inhabited. Tahiti is the biggest island and over seventy percent of the entire population of French. Polynesia live live in Tahiti. Let's look why you perhaps should have it on your travel. Bucket list first of all there is incredible scenery and the most magnificent ocean the islands are absolutely stunning. They're all very different in their own right. Many of them are surrounded by reefs the ocean which can go from very shallow to very deep and very varied means that the ocean is incredible mixture of Greens and Blues and Turquoise is they are absolutely stunning some of the others the very mountainous day volcanic they are just the most incredibly beautiful on it absolutely is one of the most beautiful parts of the world incredible scenery beautiful islands amazing ocean is definitely a good reason for being on your. Bucket list the second reason is it has a very interesting diverse and different culture being ceremony being so isolated it has its own distinct and unique people's culture music folklore role as you travel around the islands you learn so much about the culture and the people and it is very different and others the clothes they wear the architecture the food the jewelry the handicrafts so much very different and it is really exciting to go to a part of the world that has such a different culture and people people are incredibly friendly and very welcoming so I think definitely the people and the culture and the fact that it's so different is a really good reason that it should be on your bucket list. The third reason that a French politician cruise is worthy of consideration for being on your bucket list is the fact that there are one hundred thousand nine islands so to get around the islands to see even a handful of islands if you're not going on a cruise is a real hassle you have to fly for coming into nationally into petty epithets the International Airport and from there you either then have to catch ferries or the flights to go to the other islands. The advantage of course of going on a cruise is you can board the ship in petty which is where the ships would normally depart from suddenly the pool again it started and ended in petty so you can get on the ship very easily you can unpack and you can go around many many islands without the hassle of flying and ferries unpack ones and you get around so there are many artists to see and of course you wonder if you come to the street and see the many islands because the islands are very different than not all the same so you WanNa see more than one or two islands when you come here so going on a cruise is absolutely the best way of seeing a representation of the islands. Silence I think that's a really good reason for a cruise around French. Polynesia being on the bucket list the great thing about a cruise in French Polynesia is you then I'll give an enormous range of excursions so let me talk about the sort of things that you can do as is excursions of cruise well snorkeling and scuba diving is a big part of the region and all of the islands the great race and lots of snorting so you'll find there are always many many different options in terms of snorkeling and the ships have partnerships oughta ships know really where to go to get great snorting and of course scuba diving as well depending on the time of year. You'll find this opportunity to go well watching which tends to be more into July there's dolphin watching and that's really puppy seeking God on toes and view Dolphins Opens and Wales really popular excursion is to go swimming with stingrays and also go to excursions where they feed the stingrays. This is really great fun. These animals are incredibly approachable very calm and friendly and really get excited with the feeding it. It's a great excursion to do. There's lots of opportunities to go kayaking paddle boarding and all sorts of water sports related activities. Some of the ships will even let you do them off the ships have exhausted on Paul Gauguin. They have a water sports platform which in most of the ports they will open up and you can go paddle boating and kayaking right from the ship itself Great Adventure with cruising. Is You have it right there on the ship you just go down to the watersports platform Paul Gauguin and you can do all of those is activities. You'll also find all of the ports wave run it so often they will head of round the whole Unindo big parts of the island many of them if you're on a cruise will also give you the opportunity to go zooming around actual cruise ship itself. Waivers really really popular Catamaran trips or also very popular. Many of those will go in the early evening at sunset. One of the things that French Polynesia is renowned for our incredible sunsets. You'll often find this many catamaran excursions that L. Sundown or related intensive land-based there are a couple of really great land-based activities one of which is cycling so you'll find particularly in some of the islands like Maria for example. There's great socking opportunities. Will you cycle through through pineapple fields and right up to big lookouts. The good news is because he's a pretty steep and difficult rise is you'll find that most of them will also give the opportunity of having an e bike so Maria for example we hot up to the Belvedere viewpoints took over the base and we use e bikes to get up there and it was really great. ATV Tours are also really popular on all of the islands some of the on road some of them off road and they are a great way of exploring getting run into the hearts of the islands ATV tours. It's very popular as well the other thing which the cruise lines offer which I really liked and we used a lot are day-passes to some of the most exclusive resorts across French Polynesia so for example in Bora Bora we got to go to the very prestigious five star into Continental Bora Bora resort where we were whisked across in a boat and we had access to the five star facilities beaches the pools lunch included and all of the islands. There are resort passes included as excursions where you can go and see some of the most exclusive resorts and go to some of the most exclusive beaches across French Polynesia so definitely the range and variety of excursions that you can do on a cruise ship very Easley independent travel. It's much more difficult to tap into things to do so there's a couple of really good reasons. Why at cruise around French Polynesia should be on your bucket list however there are a couple of watch outs which may influence influence your decision so let me talk about the full big things that I think you need to be aware of before you put that cruise on your bucket list French? Polynesia is a long way away. You need to fly into Petty Tahiti. That's a good eight hours. Flight from Los Angeles if you coming from Europe is twenty anyone else so we flew on eh tahiti-nui which was fantastic they have brand new Boeing dream liners and it was really comfortable and magnificent flight but it is a long way to go so bear in mind as you put on your bucket. You're traveling a long distance so actually think about once you get here how you're GonNa make that an around worth the wall of the investment of flying all the way here so what most people do is they do the cruise but that also tag on some pre and post as land-based as well. The second one child is when you start looking at the fares for the cruises initially they will seem quite expensive however make sure that you really understand what's included so again for example it was lost all inclusive so all the accommodation all the food including specially donning all your drinks were included auditees included so you only real major extras where Wifi and excursions so when you crews says although they may look expensive make sure you understand what they include. They all much better value than you may think. When you first look at the fairs it is relatively expensive trip but like many bucket lists? That's why they aren't people's bucket lists. The next one is around the best time to go and that's in French. Polynesia is really between June and August between the mid twenties to thirties you have the least amount of rains he had more chance to have blue skies and it really is the absolute best time I WANNA cruise in June and we had a really really great time. It wasn't too hot. The way that was great. Next Watch is if your pen to go on a cruise around French Polynesia think very carefully about who you go with so some of the bigger cruise lines do come to French Polynesia. They tend to include French Polynesia some of the islands as part of a Baker trip. What's really important? Those cruise lines don't have ships that are specifically designed for French Polynesia because there's lots of reefs. It's quite difficult again to some of the audience so the big ships can only get into very few of the islands however if you go with the cruise line which is much more rooted at has ships to signed for French Polynesia. You'll see a much more diverse and a big part of the region so again using the example of Poule Gorgon. This ship was ready. Specifically designed for French Polynesia has a very shallow draft which means it can get into many of the islands has able to navigate round some of the reefs that surround many of the islands and it gives you a much more diverse and wider range of islands so very importantly as you look at which cruise line fine think about one which is really designed and targeting the region because you're gonNA see more than so look at the range and diversity of islands that they're going to take you to cruising around French. Polynesia for me was really a bucket list destination.

Polynesia French Polynesia French French Polynesia French Polynesia French Polynesia Paul Gauguin Maria Bora Bora Tahiti Gary Benbridge South Pacific Ocean Continental Bora Bora Petty Tahiti Poule Gorgon International Airport ATV Tours Wales Easley
Loving Vincent

Based On a True Story

35:54 min | 2 years ago

Loving Vincent

"Before we begin I want to point out that we're going to be talking about some very serious subject matter in this episode, including mentions of suicide. On today's episode of true story we're going to compare history with a two thousand seventeen movie loving Vincent. If you've seen our movie today, you'll know how it stands apart from well, every single other movie. You see loving Vincent is the very first full length feature film to be made up in tirelessly of oil paintings at the helm behind this crazy idea were co directors Dorota Kobe yellow, and Hugh. Welshmen. In an interview with BBC after the movie was released. Welshman explained quote. We were told many times, by film financiers, by people in the animation industry that this was a crazy undertaking and also an impossible undertaking when you start to break it down. It's just a matter of how many painters, you can find. And if you can find enough painters at the quality level we needed and quote. And they did. In fact, the very first line of taxed, we see in the movie explains, that there were over one hundred artists who teamed up to hand paint, the entire film. It seem a lot of sources can't really agree on the exact number of paintings used. Some said there were over forty thousand while others said that there were some sixty five thousand or sixty seven thousand oil paintings, no matter how you look at it, though. There were a crazy amount of oil paintings that were created to make the movie. So even if you haven't seen the movie, of course, we'll have some spoilers in this episode since we'll be walking through the movies pivotal plot points. But even still it's worth taking the time to watch the movie to see for yourself. How amazing the movie is purely as a work of art. But then there's the story, the two co directors also wrote the film, along with your tech Darnell all. Ultimately the movie is a bio-pic for the renowned artist. Vincent Van Gogh. That's why all the oil paintings throughout the movie are done in van gos- unmistakable style. So let's take some time to learn more about Vincent Van Gogh as we dig into his life in the suspicions around his untimely death comparing history with loving Vincent. I'm Dan Lewis ebb and this is based on a true story. Before starting our story today. We need to set up our game to truth and a lie. Here's how it works. I'm about to give you three facts. Two of them are true, which means one is an all out, lie your task throughout this episode is to find out, which one is the lie. Are you ready? Okay. Here they are number one Vincent had more siblings than THEO. Number two, Vincent stopped painting for the last few years of his life. Number three Vincent claimed to have shot himself. Got them. Okay. Now as you're listening to our story today. Keep your ears peeled, because somewhere throughout the episode, I'll mention the two facts, and those are the true facts and then by a simple process of elimination, you'll know which one is alive. And then, of course, we'll do a recap at the end of the episode to see how will you did. All right now, let's begin our dive into the true story behind the movie loving Vincent. A movie today opens with a blurb in the newspaper. It says Olvare ser was. On Sunday, July twenty seventh one van goch aged thirty seven Dutch painter staying at Ave shot himself with a revolver in the fields but being only wounded return to his room where he died two days later. Sadly, that report is true, and it's pretty self explanatory. Although I think it's worth pointing out the year because the movie doesn't do that. The fatal gunshot took place on July twenty seventh eighteen ninety and Vincent died two days later on July twenty ninth. The next line of text into movie explains that the events in the movie took place, one year after Vincent Van Gogh death and it starts in Ouro in the year. Eighteen ninety one. After the opening credits. We see the movie's main character a man named Armand Roulin. He's voiced by Douglas booth Armand picks a fight with someone in a bar. A policeman comes to investigate and hands something back to our mind it seem that he dropped a letter that he had on him. But insists that it's not his letter. It's Vincent Van Gogh's letter addressed to Vincent's, brother, this leads into a conversation with the woman in the bar who over hears Vincent's name. Apparently, she knew Vincent and said, the man was mad the policemen then returns his own opinion about Vincent. No, he wasn't mad. The policeman says he was he was interesting. He goes on to say, Vincent only got strange when his friend Gauguin came as the policeman is talking the movie shifts to a black and white flashback. The scene is at as the policeman says his yellow house, according to the movie here, Vincent, and Gogan art wanting to set up Vincent's home to be an incubator for painters, initially it starts off enthusiastically, but quickly turns to the two men being at each other's throats. Then the movie shows a shot of Vincent walking up to a woman in a bar handing her a napkin. She opens it to, to find an ear Vincent's ear. Apparently he cut off his own ear inn handed. So the woman, the movie doesn't give a lot more context than that. So let's stop the movies time timeline here because we've got a lot to cover already starting with Armand ruin he was very real person. And just like Vincent Van Gogh the ruined family lived, an ARL, France. In eighteen eighty one although one thing, the movie doesn't really mention is that Vincent and Armand knew each other. In fact, they were neighbors that yellow house, the movie mentions was right next door to the ruling family home. It's also worth pointing out that our mind was only sixteen at the time, so movies, probably a little more accurate that if Vincent knew any of the ruling family, it was probably armand's father Charles more than Armand himself, but Vincent described Armand in a letter to his brother on December, first eighteen eighty one, I had done the portraits of a whole family that of the postman, whose head, I did earlier husband wife, baby, the young boy, and the sixteen year old son, all of them characters and very French, though, they look, Russian that painting of our mind that Vincent did served as the inspiration for the look of the character that we see in the movie the yellow jacket and all. And speaking of the letter from Vincent to THEO that bring actually real quick. Let me mention the pronunciation of THEO, you see the movie, pronounces it THEO. Well in my research, I found that a lot of other people pronounce it Tayo. But since the movie says THEO, that's what I'm going to use for this episode. Where was I? Oh, that's right. Vincent's letter to THEO as you can probably guess, the van goch was indeed, really the brother of Vincent, the movie talks, very briefly, about Vincent's family, a little later in the movie. But since we're on the topic THEO was not Vincent's. Only brother, the movie was correct to mention that the first child born to Vincent's parents, the odorous, and Anna was another baby, boy, they named Vincent, of course, as the firstborn, it's not like they planned on having to children with the same name. But the name Vincent was a common one in their family. Shared by Fyodor is his own father. So when they had their first child, they named him Vincent sadly, little Vincent was stillborn that was in eighteen fifty to one year later. The odorous and Anna had another baby. Boy, in honor of the child, they lost and also Theodorus his father. This new baby boy was also given the name Vincent for years later in eighteen fifty seven FIA was born while his name was Theodorus just like his father, but everybody called him THEO, but Vincent and THEO were not the only children and it was born in eighteen fifty five Elizabeth was born in eighteen fifty nine willa mean or sometimes called will Amina they really called her will in the family was born in eighteen sixty two and the youngest in the family was a boy, born in eighteen sixty seven Cornelius or core as everybody called him, none of the other Van Gogh children are in the movie, and perhaps there's a reason for that. After all, it was very true that Vincent was closest with THEO. He was his closest friend, his confidant and not to get too far ahead of our story. But it was THEO who helped financially support his older brother for much of their adult lives after all Vincent Van Gogh didn't sell many paintings during his lifetime. It was more common for Vincent to trade paintings for food, or his paintings applies than it was for him to sell them for money today. His paintings are some of the most valuable pieces of art in the world. But Vincent's tragic life was the epitome of starving artist. He was broke for most of his life and unappreciated in his time that brings us to the man briefly mentioned, by the policeman in the bar in the movie in the movie, the character is simply named Gogan. That was his last name, albeit spelled slightly differently. Thanks to language differences. Paul Gauguin was an artist. Who befriended the to van goch brothers when they both lived in Paris in eighteen eighty seven but then early eighteen eighty eight Vincent was growing increasingly sick, probably because of all the smoking and drinking that he did and decided to move out of the city to aro it was here that he continued to paint. And many historians believe he had the intention of starting a sort of an art colony there that make the implications that we see in the movie to be correct. Although it's also worth pointing out well. Let's just a lot. We don't know I've mentioned the letters between THEO in Vincent and quite honestly, it's those letters that are the only reason we know a lot about Vincent for his part. Theo was a bit of a hoarder. He saved all sorts of paperwork, including the letters from his beloved brother, on the other hand, Vincent hardly saved any of his, and because he wasn't famous during his lifetime, the letters serve as the most documentation, we have on the events in their lives. My point in mentioning this is just a lay the groundwork that there's a lot of things. We don't know for absolute certain about the events surrounding Vincent's life, one, great example of that is something we see in the opening moments of the movie. We'll rec- Vincent, handing a knack into a woman with his ear in it as the story goes on December twenty third eighteen eighty eight at roughly eleven thirty pm or so. Vincent walked into a brothel an ARL cut off his ear with a razor blade wrapped it in cloth, and hinted, it to a prostitute named Rachel although many decades later historians would make an amendment to the story that the woman named Rachel was actually named Gabrielle and was the daughter of a local farmer. When she saw the bloody ear, she fainted in Vincent ran off. Why would he do this? That's a very good question. The truth is, we just don't know, for sure. We don't even know if he cut his whole ear off the police at the time who arrived on the scene reported that he cut off the entire exterior of his left ear. Others close to Vincent, who were there in the aftermath of his recovery after nearly bleeding to death later said that he only cut off the lobe beyond that there's been a lot of speculation and many historians have come up with explanations for why he would do that. The two versions of this, that, I think are the most plausible both circle around one very important fact that we've touched on very briefly, Vincent Van Gogh wasn't well, not just physically though, Vincent suffered from mental illnesses to we'll chat about that here in a moment. One explanation for why he might have cut off his ear that people have thrown out there was because of Paul Gauguin, basically as the friendship between Vincent and Paul soured the str. S levels rose. Then Paul told Vincent, that he was moving out, as I mentioned earlier, Vincent was broke for most of his life at that time, he was rooming with Paul in the yellow house. All of a sudden Vincent, what face the possibility of losing his roommate will that affect the roof over as heads. Well, the food on the table. Maybe so that's one possible explanation for something that could have caused him to go into a state of mind that ended with losing his ear the other possible explanation is similar, but has to do with his brother. Theo something else happening around this time was Theo's engagement to a woman he'd fallen in love with up until that point in his life. It was Vincent who took up the entirety of Theo's, emotional and financial investment with getting married. And starting a family again. Vincent was faced with the possibility of losing his brother, not at a literal way. But obviously Theo's priorities would change he'd have a new. Emotional and financial priorities with the new family. So this version suggests that Theo's new family could have been the straw that through Vincent into the state of mind where he'd cut off his own ear in the end, we don't really know. And there are more theories out there those are just a couple. Speaking of Vincent state of mind, unfortunately, the science of the time, just didn't know a lot about mental health concerns during his lifetime. So most of the diagnoses for Vincent van got have been done long after he died as you can imagine the truth is a matter of debate since so much. We don't know, for sure. But many sources suggest that Vincent most likely suffered from bipolar disorder to make matters worse ever since Vincent was young. He was very physically active out of those really out of necessity due to not having much money. Vincent walked a lot that by itself, isn't bad. Of course, exercise is good. But he also didn't eat much, for example. There's one story where Vincent was having a lonely evening. And then he happened upon a dog in the streets of the Hague on the western coast of the Netherlands. He went to a nearby bakery and took what little money. He could spare to buy some bread for the dog. Then when the dog appeared to scarf that down and still be hungry. He went back to the bakery to spend all the rest of his money to get even more that left nothing for him yet another night without a meal for Vincent. And yet another skipped meal, that he didn't seem to care that he missed on top of that he drank more often than most, but most common pleasure was smoking tobacco pipe, most doctors who have tried to diagnose Vincent after his death have said that whatever Vincent suffered from was made much worse by the drinking. The smoking the overall lack of nutrition with each passing day. It got a little worse. Going back to the movie using the excuse of delivering the final letter from Vincent to THEO. Armand embarks on a journey of people who know about the brothers he learns right away that the van Gaal passed away, six months after Vincent. Did. Tally. That's true. Vincent died on July twenty ninth eighteen ninety like his brother. The physical health was never great throughout most of his life after Vincent died. The oh was devastated understandably. He was he was heartbroken. This impacted the health it spiraled down after being hospitalized. In November of eighteen ninety THEO died on January twenty fifth eighteen ninety one. Back in the movie, one of the key people that Armand ruined talks to his someone named Dr Gachet, according to the movie he's the doctor who tended to Vincent before. And during the time that he was shot the story. The movie lays out his that Vincent checked himself into San reme- after a period of time. The movie doesn't indicate he checks himself out with a letter, suggesting that he was, quote, unquote, perfectly calm. Then six weeks later, he walked into a field near avair to paint one day and shot himself in the chest. But he didn't die instead. He stumbled back to town and ended up dying to days later, after laying out that story, the movie starts to poke holes in the official story and asks questions, like, how could someone go from being perfectly calm to suicidal in six weeks or how could someone shoot themselves in the chest at an angle that Vincent claim to? The basic idea here that the movie is building up to is the possibility that maybe Vincent, did not commit suicide. Maybe he was shot and simply didn't want anyone else to be charged. The truth is. Well, we just don't know. The questions the movie surfaces are exactly the sort of questions that historians and art lovers around the world have tried to answer ever since Vincent's death in eighteen ninety. So realistically, there's no way that I could hope to magically have the answer in this episode with that said, though, let's lay out the things that we do know so you can come up with your own conclusion about what might have happened in Vincent's final days. As we learned earlier Vincent's, mental health was in a near constant state of deterioration. While Vincent was living in arl- between the situation with Paul Gauguin, and his brother getting married and the ongoing battles with mental health Vincent was pressured to take care of himself by checking into a hospital. So in early eighteen eighty nine he did exactly that, that was like the movie says at a psychiatric hospital in San reme- France roughly sixteen miles, or about twenty six kilometers from ARL. Theo paid for the costs of the hospital. The letter, the movies were ferring to came from the doctor who treated Vincent at the hospital. It was sent to Vincent's brother THEO, and dated may twenty sixth eighteen eighty nine here is that letter San reme- may twenty six eighteen eighty nine sir an answer to your letter of the twenty third. I have the satisfaction of telling you, that Mr Vincent has been perfectly, calm sense. His entry into the house, and that every day he observes that has health improves. In the beginning, he was subject to distressing nightmares, which troubled him, but he observes that these distressing dreams have tended to disappear in decrease in intensity resulting in a more restful and restorative sleep for him. He also has a better appetite and short sense, his entry he has made a slight improvement in his state, and this makes him hope for a complete recovery in the future. He is occupied all day drawing in the park, where he is now. But since I see he is perfectly calm. I promised him that I would allow him to go to different points of view outside the establishment. You ask me for my opinion on the likely course of his malady. I must tell you that I reserve my prognosis for the moment, but I am afraid it is serious because I have reason to believe that the attack that he had was caused by an epileptic condition. And if this is confirmed it will be necessary to be concerned for the future. I intend to go to Paris during the month of June. I will have the honor of seeing you, and better a coin to about your patient. Then one can do by letter. Sincerely, yours. Doctor t h parent. So, yes, the doctor said that Vincent was perfectly calm, but he also said that his prognosis. Quote is serious and quote. Sadly, if things did get better for Vincent. It wasn't for much longer as we learned earlier THEO, getting gauged in early. Eighteen eighty nine then in April of eighteen eighty nine THEO married, Joanna Banga, most people just called her. Joe in may. Vincent checked into the hospital for the next few months. Vincent dealt with some serious bouts of depression, he'd be fine for a month. Then he'd go through serious depression for a month. He'd be fine for a couple months, then he dip into a deep depression for a couple months. Vincent was at the hospital for about a year. He checked out in may of eighteen ninety it was while he was at the hospital. Vincent painted some of his most famous works of art, including my personal favourite, starry night. Of course, those didn't become famous until after his death. His immediate destination after leaving the hospital was to stay with his brother and his new sister-in-law. So he traveled to Paris to stay with them for a short period of time, just a few days before he found a place on the north side of Paris. That would be there. Sir was. It was well, in there that Vincent continued to paint and write letters to THEO amid discussions of what paintings he was currently working on the letters themselves would paint a picture of how much Vincent was still suffering, for example. In a letter, dated may twenty fourth eighteen ninety Vincent wrote this to THEO and Joe. Myself all I can do at the moment is say that I think that we all need some rest. I feel a failure. That's it has regards me. I feel that that's the fate, I'm accepting and which won't change anymore. But one more reason, setting aside, all ambition we can live together for years. Without ruining ourselves on either side, you see that the canvases that are still in San reme-. There are at least eight of them and with the four from here, I'm trying not to lose my touch. That though is the absolute truth. It's difficult to acquire a certain facility of production and by ceasing to work. I would lose it much more quickly more easily than it cost me in troubles to acquire it in the prospect, darkens. I don't see. A happy heater at all in the movie, one of the people interviewed by Armand religion is the innkeeper's daughter, who was there when Vincent stayed at the in her name is at a line Revo, and she was a real person that she was only thirteen years old in July eighteen ninety, but it wasn't until she was in her seventies that she wrote what is probably the most detailed account of the final moments of Vincent Van Gogh's life. According to her Vincent left, the in on the morning of July twenty seventh that was perfectly normal as Vincent would often spend the entire day painting a landscape sky river. Whatever else he was working on at the moment. But he always returned as the sky turn dark this time he didn't add line recalled that they started to worry about him until around nine pm. Vincent returned. He was clutching his stomach. When add lines mom saw Vincent holding his stomach. She asked if something was wrong. He replied, no. But, but I have then he trailed off as he climbed up the stairs with much difficulty to get to the room. He was staying at lines. Dad went to check on Vincent and found him lying on his bed groaning at first, he thought Vincent was ill. But then Vincent showed him, the wound a gunshot to the chest. Vincent said he tried to kill himself. According to this version of the story, Vincent said he was in a wheatfield painting when he shot himself with a revolver, he passed out from the wound only coming to when the evening started to cool down. But then in the darkness, he couldn't find the revolver to finish what he had started. So he stumbled back to the in. Hearing this, the innkeepers immediately sent word to Dr Gachet, who was Vincent doctor. He came in dressed the wound but didn't do much else. He was said to have claimed there wasn't much more. He could do. It was hopeless. The next morning messages, were sent to the police, as well as telegram to THEO police asked Vincent about the shooting to, which he replied, my body is mine. And I am free to do what I want with it. Do not accuse anybody it is. I that wished to commit suicide. Theo was quick to arrive by train getting there that same afternoon. He stayed by his brother's bed for what would be the rest of his life that night, Vincent slipped into a coma and died officially his death certificate is at one thirty AM on July twenty ninth eighteen ninety. We don't know exactly what happened that day. And we don't know what Vincent's final moments where like exactly. Probably some of the best insight will ever get into Vincent. Final moments came from a letter that THEO wrote to Elizabeth has sister dated August fifth eighteen ninety to say, we must be grateful that he rests, I still hesitate to do so. Maybe I should call at one of the great cruelties of life on this earth, and maybe we should count him among the martyrs who died with a smile on their face. He did not wish to stay alive and his mind was so calm because he had always fought for his convictions convictions that he had measured against the best and noblest of his predecessors. His love for his father for the gospel for the poor and the unhappy for the great men of literature and painting is enough proof for that. In the last letter, which he wrote me, and which dates from some four days before his death. It says quote, I try to do as well as certain painters, who I have greatly loved, and admired, and quote. People should realize that he was a great artist something, which often coincides with being a great human being. In the course of time this will surely be acknowledged and many will regret has early death. He himself wanted to die when I sat at his bedside and said that we would try to get him better, and that we hoped that he would then be spared this kind of despair. He said. The sadness will last forever. I understood what he wanted to say with those words. A few moments later he felt suffocated and within one minute he closed. His is a great rest came over him from which he did not come to life again. In the end, we have to turn to the personal letters in the recollections of people like Adeline reveal to paint the picture of what happened to Vincent Van Gogh. How accurate of a story does that tell? That's for you to decide. this episode of based on a true story was written and produced by me. Dan lab. Now, I know we talked about some very serious subject matter on this episode as someone who has had loved ones impacted by some of the things we've talked about on this episode. I, I know it's something to take very seriously. I know life is tough at times. But remember? You are loved talk to someone. The national suicide hotline in the US is one eight hundred two seven three talk as one eight hundred two seven three eight two five five. As I mentioned earlier in this episode. The movie does a pretty good job of raising some important questions to combat the official story of Vincent's final moments. There was some mistrust of Dr Guichet in one of Vincent's letters to THEO. He said, Dr Shay wasn't to be trusted because he was sicker than Vincent. What did he mean by that? Or there's the secretary boys that the movie mentioned and seems to imply might have had something to do with Vincent's death. Possibly even being the ones who shot Vincent. Those are all possibilities, it's a mystery. That has haunted generations of art lovers and historians. In the center of it. All Vincent's life has grown to become an example of an artist who suffered during his lifetime. He wasn't rich and famous exactly the opposite. In fact, on top of the challenges that come with poverty, and struggling to survive. He also suffered from illnesses that simply were not understood by the doctors of his day. Throughout it. All Vincent gifted us with some of the most beautiful paintings the world has ever seen. If you wanna learn more about the life of Vincent Vanco, there's a ton of great resources out there from authors and historians and so, like I always do here on the show. Here are a few recommendations for places to start down that path. The first is a book edited by h Anna, sue called Van Gogh's letters, the mind of the artist in paintings drawings, and words eighteen seventy five to eighteen ninety. The title is pretty self explanatory about what you can expect from it. If you're looking for more of a biography style book, there's two recommendations, I'd like to make the first is called, dear THEO by Irving and Jean stone. The second is called Vincent and THEO by Deborah. Heitmann. Okay. Now it's time for the answer to our to truth and a lie game from the beginning of the episode as a refresher. Here are the two truth and one lie number one. Vincent had more siblings than THEO. Number two, Vincent stopped painting for the last few years of his life. Number three, Vincent claim to have shot himself. Did you find out which one is ally? Let's start with number three as we learned the generally accepted version of the story would say that this is true. Vincent said he shot himself. So officially has death was ruled as suicide. Yes. A lot of people have questioned that over the decades, but regardless of what actually happened is far as we know he claimed to have shot himself. So number three is true. That brings us to number two. That is the lie as we learned. Vincent didn't stop painting, even when he was at the psychiatric hospital in San reme-. He was even painting a wheatfield when he shot himself in this way, the movie brings up a great point when it asks the question. What happened to his painting supplies in the field. The canvas the paints brushes etcetera if he was painting in the field, but stumbled back to the end without them where they go in only app to mystery. Finally, we have number one and as I'm reading this, I'm actually realizing the way I phrased that is a little confusing. I said, Vincent had more siblings than THEO, but of course they were brothers. And so they had the same number of siblings, since they were brothers, but really what I meant by that statement, was that there were more siblings than just THEO, because THEO is the only one that we see in the movie, and as we learned Vincent and THEO were not the only children in the Van Gogh family, there was also Elizabeth Anna will mean and cornell's six children, total. That brings us to an end of this episode. If you're still listening to this. Thank you so much. You are truly one of these super fans of this show and I would love to hear from you. What do you think of the mystery surrounding Vincent's death? Are there other versions of the story that you think adds some answers, or maybe you notice something that I missed and want to clarify things a little bit more? The best place to share anything that you'd like to add to the story is in the based on a true story Facebook group, or you can reach out to me directly on Twitter where I'm at Dan. Lafayette. D A, N Elliott Phoebe. And if social media isn't your thing you can shoot me a good, old fashioned Email? Dan, at based on a true story, podcast dot com. Until next time. Thanks so much for listening. And I'll chat with you, again, really soon.

Mr Vincent Vincent Van Gogh THEO Vincent van Vincent Vanco Vincent doctor Paul Gauguin Elizabeth Anna Armand Roulin Douglas booth Armand San reme Paris ARL van goch Van Gogh BBC Gogan Dr Gachet Welshman
Jon Z SIN UN MEGA HIT colabora con artistas ELITE

Frequencia Urbana Podcast

13:24 min | 11 months ago

Jon Z SIN UN MEGA HIT colabora con artistas ELITE

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Orsay Museum Audio Tour

Rick Steves Paris Audio Tours

56:19 min | 3 years ago

Orsay Museum Audio Tour

"The orsay museum or museo. Dr say houses french chart of the eighteen. Hundred starring the impressionists. It's the art of sun. Dappled fields bright colors and crowded parisian cafes. Hi i'm rick steves. Thanks for joining me on a guided tour through the best general collection anywhere of many monet. Renoir degas and go says on and gauguin. If you like impressionism visit this museum. If you don't like impressionism visit this museum. I personally find it a more enjoyable and rewarding placed than the move. Sure you gotta see the mona lisa. Venus demayo but after you get your gut as out of the way enjoy the arce allow about ninety minutes to do justice to this audio tour once at the orsay be sure to pick up their free map to get the current layout because the or say rotates its collection frequently. Think of this less as a painting by painting tour and more as a pleasant stroll through impressionist art. Keep the big picture and let the colors and images dessel. This is one of europe's most pleasant art experiences. The orsay museum how to use this audio guide as you can see from the display window on your mp three player each of the as greatest hits has its own track number much like the song tracks of a music cd. You can skip ahead or tailor your itinerary to your own tastes but navigating through the sprawling or san your own can be confusing and it's easiest to just follow the tour in the order. I've laid out to help you along. I've invited my colleague. Lisa lisa though as you. She'll give directions from one exhibit to the next after listening to leases directions. You can pause the audio guide then restarted at the next track. When you're ready to see the next exhibit my hope is that you can just kick back and listen to my commentary while breezing from room to room be aware that even with the best directions museum going can be confusing. Exhibits are routinely moved around sent out on loan or tucked away for restoration and museums can even close entire rooms without notice. If you're taking this tour with my rick. Steves audio europe app. Don't miss its latest features. There are zuma bull maps showing the route in each stop. These are viewable. While you listen a twenty-second rewind button allows you to get something. You might have missed or here. Vital directions. the second time and the speed button makes talk. Faster chipmunk style you can read the actual script of this tour. And if you'd like more information on the spot you can download our entire guidebook on this destination with a couple of clicks those following this tour on their ipod rather than with my fancier app may find that my guidebook to this place with its maps photos and exhibit titles can make following this audio tour. Easier be flexible. Pick up the free museum map when you enter and don't hesitate to ask a security guard for help. Way is french for where is and of course siu play please. Way seiu play and one little request. Forgive my french pronunciations. I anglicized them for easier understanding. And i'm still learning. Now let's enter the orsay and get started. Lisa take us in thanks. Rick tour begins the main floor statues and the nineteenth century. Start your tour inside the orsay overlooking the vast main gallery be sure to pick up a free english map to get the latest layout because the museum's collection changes frequently now belly up to the stone balustrade overlooking the main floor. And take it all in rick. The main floor stretching before you has early nineteenth century art conservatives on the right realism on the left upstairs. Not visible from here is the core of the collection. The impressionist rooms. We'll start with the conservatives and early rebels here on the ground floor then head upstairs to see how a few visionary young artists bucked the system and revolutionized the art world paving the way for the twentieth century. Let's go walk down the steps to the main floor into the main gallery filled with statues as rick introduces us to the art of the nineteenth century. The nineteenth century was a mix of old and new side-by-side europe was entering the modern industrial age with cities factories rapid transit instant communication and global networks at the same time it clung to the past with traditional rural almost medieval attitudes and morals so the orsay shows art that's also both old and new conservative and revolutionary wonder among the main floors gallery of gleaming white statues. No this isn't ancient greece. These statues are from the same era as the theory of relativity. It's the conservative art of the french schools that was so popular throughout the nineteenth century. People love this stuff because it's beautiful with the balanced poses perfect anatomy sweet faces curving lines and creamy stone. It's all very appealing. I'll badmouthing it later. But for now. Appreciate the exquisite craftsmanship of this pretty and very conservative art. Think of the times that produced these statues the collection spans the period from eighteen. Forty eight until nineteen fourteen. It began with democratic and socialist revolutions. Marx wrote his communist manifesto during this period and ended in nineteen fourteen with the pull of necessities trigger which ignited world war one and ushered in the modern world. This was the century of geronimo and einstein abraham lincoln and karl marx. The train the bicycle. The horse and buggy the automobile and the balloon freud and dickens darwin's origin of the species and the churches immaculate conception louis pastor and billy the kid vladimir lenin anti-cop let's enter some of the rooms flanking the statue gallery enter the small room. One the room closest to the entrance look for a painting of a nude woman with a pitcher of water but remember many of the paintings along our route may be temporarily out on loan or displayed somewhere else so stay flexible and be prepared to enjoy other works by the same artist. Enter room one with works by anger. Ooh john august dominique angra the source eighteen fifty six. Let's start where the louvre left off. Angra who helped cap. The lubes collection championed a neoclassical style. The source is virtually. A greek statue on canvas like venus demayo. She's a balance of opposite motions. Her hips tilt one way her breasts. The other one arm goes up the other down. The water falling from the pitcher matches the fluid curve of her body. Her skin is porcelain smooth painted with seamless. Brushstrokes angra worked on this for over thirty five years and considered it his image of perfection famous in its day the source influenced many artists. Who's classical statues and paintings are in this museum. Start walking uphill through room to and into room. Three as you go. You'll see more of these visions of idealized beauty nude women and languid poses episodes from greek myths. Dreamy landscapes scenes. Like these were totally at odds with the gritty reality of the industrial revolution. That was transforming nineteenth century europe. When you reach room three. The paintings are equally dreamy. Look for one specific painting a pastel. Blue green work of a reclining goddess alexander carbonell the birth of venus from eighteen sixty. Three carbonell lays angers the source on her back. This got us is a perfect fantasy. An orgasm of beauty. The love goddess stretches back seductively recently birthed from the ephemeral foam of a wave. This is art of pre freudian society. When sex was dirty and mysterious and it had to be exalted into a more pure divine form. The sex drive was channeled into an acute sense of beauty. French folk would literally swoon in ecstasy. Before these works of art the art world of carbonnel's day was dominated by two conservative institutions. The academy which was the state funded art school and the salon where works like these were exhibited to the public. The public loved carbonnel's venus. In fact napoleon the third purchased it get a feel for the ideal beauty and refined emotion of these greek style. Works back out in the gallery. You'll find a statue of another swooning. Venus go ahead swoon. If it feels good enjoy it. Now take a mental cold shower and let's cross over to the wrong side of the tracks to the art of the early rebels. The so-called realists exit room three into the main gallery. We're back to those beautiful statues that make you swoon. Turn left and head back toward the entrance to room for. Its opposite the anger room. These statues almost like copies of the live models. The artist saw in art class. In a sense they are each one strikes a different pose. The academy students looked at the models learned the anatomy and understood how the robe stripped down. Bravo you all get an a. Now let's see a different approach to art. Enter room for full of tiny by domesday. Honore may celebrities of the happy medium from the eighteen thirties. These thirty six small portrait busts are a liberals look at the stuffy bourgeois establishment that controlled the academy and the salon dossier trained as a political cartoonist exaggerates each subjects most distinct characteristic to capture with vicious precision the pomposity and self righteousness of these self appointed arbiters of taste the labels next to the busts. Give the name of the person being caricatured. His title or job. Most were members of the french parliament and an insulting nickname like gross fat and satisfied and monsieur played head. Have some fun. Give a few nicknames yourself. Take some time with these and see if you can find some familiar faces from our own pompous time. Let's see ice by a reagan ronald reagan. You mean the guy with the big swooping hairdo and how about that guy with the doughy face. Alcohol him clinton. Bill that is yeah The one with the bulging hair. That looks like margaret thatcher fear. I can see that and the guy with the banks and the grumpy pout. Scott to be. Newt gingrich the guy with the pointy nose francis ex president nicolas sarkozy and there's al sharpton. Yeah i think i can see that. How about this guy over here with a long face. John kerry all the people depicted here have an era self-importance and grumpy expressions. These people hated the art. You're about to see next. Their prudish faces tightened as their fantasy world was shattered by the realists nearby. You'll find the most famous work by the realist painter. Jean francois may it features three peasant ladies working in a field. Remember if you can't find it. Consult the orsay map you picked up as you entered or stroll around and enjoy works by other realists jean francois may the gleaners eighteen sixty seven shows us three gleaners. The poor women who scavenged through the meagre leftovers after a field had already been harvested for the wealthy mia grew up on a humble farm. He didn't attend the academy and despised. The uppity peres art scene. Instead of idealized gods goddesses nymphs and winged babies me a painted simple rural scenes. Like this he was strongly affected by the socialist revolution of eighteen. Forty eight with its affirmation of the working class here. He captures the innate. Dignity of these stocky tanned women who bend their backs quietly in a large field for their humble reward. This is realism in two senses. It's painted realistically. Unlike the pretty pastels of elle's birth of venus and it's the real world not the fantasy world of greek myth but the harsh life of the working poor exit back into the main gallery head up hill. Making your way toward room fourteen. We're headed to see a work by a well known realist. Edward many many is better known as an early impressionist but his foundation was in realism. Painters called realists where the first to reject the saccharin beauty of the academy and the salon. They focused on scenes from everyday life. They sketched in cafes. Train stations and busy peres streets. They didn't gloss over the rough edges. Now let's see a realist. Take on the traditional venus. Find matinees olympia in room. Fourteen edward manet olympia. Eighteen sixty three. This brunette is thoroughly ugly. Her face is stupid. Her skin cadaverous. All this clash of colors is stupefying so wrote a critic when edward benes nude hung in the salon. The public hated it. Attacking many and print and literally attacking the canvas. Think back to cub else. Painting the birth of venus an idealized pastel vaseline on the lens. Beauty softcore pornography the kind you see selling lingerie and perfume many's nude doesn't gloss over anything. The pose is classic used by teaching goyen countless others. But this is a realist. Steak on the classics. The sharp outlines and harsh. Contrasting colors are new and shocking. Her hand is a clamp enter. Stare is shockingly defiant with not a hint of the seductive. Hey sailor look of most nudes this prostitute. Ignoring the flowers sent by her. Last customer looks out at us as if to say next. Many replaced softcore porn with hardcore art. Edward had an upper class upbringing and some formal art training. His work had been accepted by the salon. He could've cranked out pretty nudes and bene- successful painter instead. He surrounded himself with a group of young artists experimenting with new techniques with his reputation and strong personality. He was their master though he learned equally from them upstairs. That revolution is in full bloom but first step back out into the main gallery and continue to the far end. The next exhibit is a reminder that paintings and statues weren't the only art forms of nineteenth century paris. The city became one. Of europe's great music capitals. In fact peres itself was a work of art. Let's get a glimpse at the far end of the gallery. You'll walk on glass floor over a model of paris the opera exhibit hover over the scale model section of paris. This is the neighborhood around the garnier opera house. Find the opera house in the centre with its green domed roof. Notice the wide straight boulevards and the uniform height of the buildings. This was state of the art in the nineteenth century. This part of paris had recently undergone an urban renewal that cleaned out its tangle of medieval lanes. The centerpiece was the opera house explorers some of the other exhibits nearby. Find the cross section model of the opera house itself get close. You can see the inner workings start your virtual tour at the main entrance. At the far right end of the model you'd enter through the glorious front door this would spill into the year where you buy your ticket next. You'd proceed into the main entrance hall with its grand staircase. This is where you could see and be seen by all of paris at curtain time. You'd find your seat in the red and gold auditorium topped by a glorious painted ceiling. The currency link done by marc chagall is even more wonderful than the one in the model and makes a visit to the actual opera house. A real treat. Notice that the stage with elaborate riggings to raise and lower scenery is as big as the seating area itself nearby. You'll see models of set designs from some famous productions. This building hosted the opera until the nineteen eighties. These days parisians get their verdi and gano fix at paris's new opera house at plus de la steal from here. We head upstairs to the top floor to see the impressionists so near the opera exhibit find an escalator. The escalator is just steps away. But it's far from obvious to find it face the opera cross-section model and head to the left. Start writing that series of escalators. To the top floor as you ascend. Think of paris. During the nineteenth century the opera house we saw was perhaps the single best symbol of century paris. The time is known as the bill epoch. Beautifully age perez was a global center of prosperity new technology opera ballet painting and joie de vive. This was the glittering world captured by the artists from the academy in the salon. They depicted peres as if it were a new athens in. It's beautiful age. Keep going up up up on the escalators until you reach the top. Paris of the belle epoch. Certainly was glorious but behind its gilded and gas lit exterior. Things were not so pretty. The world was changing fast. The industrial revolution was in full. Swing bringing smoke belching factories and inner city. Slums revolutionaries battled in the streets. We want labor unions. We demand the right to vote among paris's artists. A counterculture simmered. We've already seen how realist. Painters captured scenes of a grittier paris. Meanwhile there was a new generation of painters the impressionists they also chafed against middle-class tastes. These young artists rejected conformity. They refused to follow careers mapped out for them and followed their artistic dreams instead when you reach the top of the series of escalators. Pause and look around take a few steps ahead and find a place where you can make a left turn onto a walkway. Make your way down the walkway following signs to the panorama this leads to a commanding view overlooking the vast interior of the orsay grand view of the or say survey. What was once an immense train station. Trains used to run right under our feet down. The center of the gallery at the far end parisians but their tickets glanced at the big clock and hustled down the steps to the platforms. This former train station barely escaped. The wrecking ball in the nineteen seventies. When the french realized it'd be a great place to house. The enormous collections of nineteenth century. Art that were scattered throughout the city to reach the impressionist rooms. Backtrack a bit then followed the flow of the crowds. Ill pass by a bookshop. You'll also see a giant backwards clock with great city views. You finally arrive in room. Twenty nine where the art begins as you approach. The impressionist rooms. Be aware that the collection is displayed somewhat randomly. You'll see monet hanging next to a renoir. Manet sprinkled among pissarro a few day guy here a few days ago there be flexible. Keep the big picture. While i'll point out a few especially notable canvases for the most part feel free to just browse freely taking it all in when you reach the first of the rooms room. Twenty-nine stop enjoy the array of work's currently on display in rooms twenty nine and thirty while rick gives a general introduction to impressionism The impressionists light color vibrations. You don't hang an impressionist canvas you. Tether it. impressionism features bright colors. Easygoing open air scenes. Spontaneity broad brush strokes and the play of light. The impressionists made their canvases shimmer by using a simple but revolutionary technique. Here's what i mean. Find a painting catches your eye. Almost anyone will do. Now get in close really close close enough to where you can see. The actual brush strokes paint. Think of how this canvas was painted. Let's say you mix red yellow and green together. You'll get brown right. But impressionist didn't bother to mix them. they'd slap a thick brush stroke of yellow down then a stroke of green next to it then read next to that up close all you see or three messy strokes but as you back up. Voila brown the colors. Blend in your eye at a distance but while you're is saying bland old brown. Your subconscious is shouting. Wow red yellow green yes. There are no lines in nature yet. Someone in the classical tradition hunger for example would draw an outline of his subject and then fill it in with colour but the impressionists built a figure with dabs of paint a snowman of color. The camera threatened to make artists obsolete now. A machine could capture better likeness than the finest painter faster than you can say at sketch but of course. True art is more than just painting reality. It gives us reality from the artists point of view with the artist's personal impressions of the scene. Impressions are often fleeting. So you have to work quickly. The impressionist painters rejected camera like detail for a quick style more suited to capturing the passing moment as you survey. These rooms noticed variety of subjects landscapes cafe scenes train stations parisian boulevards feeling stifled by the rigid rules and stuffy atmosphere of the academy. The impressionist took as their motto out of the studio and into the open air. They grabbed their berets and scarves and their newly invented tubes of pre mixed paint and went on excursions into the country where they set up their easels on riverbanks and hillsides impressionists also enjoyed sketching in cafes and halls gods goddesses nymphs and fantasy scenes were out common people in rural ends gapes. Were in the quick style and everyday subjects were ridiculed and called childish by the so-called experts rejected by the salon. The impressionists held their own exhibition in eighteen. Seventy four. they brashly took their name from an insult. Thrown at them by a critic who laughed at one of monet's impressions of a sunrise during the next decade. they exhibited their own work independently. The public opposed it. I was slowly won over by the simplicity. The color and the vibrancy of impressionist art. Now let's focus on a few individual artists. I up the mentor of the impressionists edward manet. His most famous piece is usually found in room. Twenty nine a large canvas called luncheon on the grass. but if it's not on display here no worries just continue browsing around these first few rooms enjoying other works by manet and the impressionists. He inspired edward manet luncheon on the grass. Eighteen sixty three edward menes life story followed an arc. That was typical. Almost all the impressionists like many. They all rejected a normal career banker lawyer grocer and so on to become artists. They got classical art training. They had some success sin exhibited in the salon but they soon grew tired of the salons dogmatism. And we're fascinated by realist subjects. They gradually found each other. In the guard. Art circles of paris. They banded together to launch the impressionist exhibition of eighteen. Seventy four for a decade or so. They stayed together as friends and with a similar style. They experimented with bright colors and open air scenes. We know as impressionism but in their years all of them moved on to forge their own. Unique styles many starting point was realism. He hung out in cafes sketchbook hand capturing the bustle of modern paris. his painting style was a bit messy with. Its use of rough brush strokes. This technique drew the attention of budding painters. Like mohan renoir. Manet never became a classic impressionist. For example. he tried open air painting but he didn't like it. Keep preferred to sketch on the spot and then do is serious. Painting back. In the studio and his colors remained dark with plenty of brown and figures outlined in black but when menes paintings were criticized by the artist stablishment. The impressionists rallied to his defence. For the young impressionists many was their champion. Now focus on men as well known luncheon on the grass. A shocked public looked at this and wondered. What are these scantily. Clad women doing with these men or rather. What will they be doing after the last baguette is eating. It wasn't the nudity but the presence of the men in ordinary clothes that suddenly made the nudes look naked once again. The public judge the painting on moral rather than artistic terms. A new revolutionary movement was budding impressionism. Notice the background. The messy brushwork of trees and leaves the play of light on the pond and the light that filters through the trees onto the woman who stoops in the haze also note the strong contrast of colors white skin black clothes green grass. This is a true out of doors painting. Not a studio production. Let the impressionist revolution began. Now start making your way through the next few rooms remember that the impressionist collection is scattered somewhat randomly through rooms. Twenty nine through thirty six shadows dance and the displays. Mingle where the paintings are. Hung is a lot like the artists. Brushwork delightfully sloppy. If you don't see a described painting ask a guard or just move on. It's either hanging farther down or it's on a vacation and there are plenty of other colorful works to take its place next. Featured artist is edgar degas. His work is usually found scattered around rooms. Thirty one and thirty two Edgar degas dig blends classical lines with impressionist color spontaneity and everyday subjects from urban paris. Dig our loved. The unopposed snapshot effect catching his models. Off guard dance students. Women at work and cafe scenes are seen from odd angles while these angles are not always ideal they make the scene seem more real. Clearly degas loved dance and theatre his well known statue tiny dancer. Fourteen years old is in the glass case paintings. Catch the play of stage lights off the dancers especially the halos of ballet skirts. They seem made to order for an impressionist painting dance. Class board tired dancers scratched their backs restlessly at the end of a long rehearsal and look at the bright green bowl and the girl with her back to us. In the impressionist style. Degas slept green paint onto her dress and didn't even say skews him wa edgar. Degas was a rich kid from a family of bankers who got the best. Classical style art training money could buy here. Does the pure lines and cool colors of the academic style. His work was exhibited in the salon. He gained success in a good reputation. And then he met the impressionists. He hung out with these outcasts. Discussing art love and life in the cheap cafes and bars of won't mart dig up participated in the impressionist exhibitions. But this approach to painting was different. He looked down on open air painting and preferred to work in the studio. He rarely painted landscapes focusing instead on people and he created his figures not as a mosaic of colorful brushstrokes but with a classic technique outline filled in with color dig us snapshots captured the highs and lows of parisian life in his work in a cafe. Also known as the glass of absinthe a weary lady of the evening meets morning with a last lonely coffin nail. Drink in the light of a four in the morning cafe. The pale green drink. Forming the center of the composition is that toxic substance absence. That's drink fuelled. Many artists and burned out many more. The next few rooms feature works by two impressionist masters at their peak monet and renoir. Their canvases are mingled together. In fact mohan renoir. We're good friends. Who worked together pioneering. Open air painting in the eighteen sixties. Let's start with claude monet. Yeah baby show me them honi. Oh brother club monet. The cathedral of from eighteen ninety three and scenes from zebra knee. claude monet's the father of impressionism. He fully explored the possibilities of open air painting and tried to faithfully reproduce. Nature's colors with bright blobs of paint in the eighteen sixties morning along with renoir began painting landscapes in the open air browse through monet's paintings. You won't see many urban scenes. He was always most at home in the countryside. Painting farms rivers trees and passing clouds. Mornay took a scientific approach. He's studied optics and pigments to know. Just the right colors. He needed to reproduce the shimmering quality of reflected. the key was to wait until the light was just right at the golden hour to use a modern photographers term. Then he'd worked furiously creating a fleeting impression of the scene. In fact it was one of as canvases of an impression that gave the movement. Its name impression. Ism throughout his long career more than any of his colleagues monet stuck to the impressionist credo. His goal was not painting things. He was painting studies in color and late. Look around for canvases showing scenes from monet's home and giovanni a bridge over pond a rose trellis and monet's best known subject water lilies. One of monet's favorite places to paint was the garden landscaped at his home in giverny west of paris the japanese bridge in the water lilies floating in the pond were two of his favorite subjects as monet aged and his eyesight failed failed. He made bigger canvases of smaller subjects. His final water lilies were monumental smudges of thick paints paint. Spot clouds reflected on the surface of the pond. By the way monet fans enjoy side tripping out to his home and still picturesque gardens as giovanni which welcomes the public in paris. You can see much more a at the moment on museum and monet's most famous water. Lilies are at the iran jewelry just across the river from this gallery in the tula regarding monet is also known for his series of works on the same subject. In these rooms. You may see several similar looking canvases. Hung side by side. One of his most famous series shows the cathedral of ruin at different times of day monet went went to rome. Rented a room across from the cathedral set up his easel and waited his goal to catch a series of differing impressions of the cathedral facade. At various times of day and year he often had several canvases going at once in all he painted thirty versions of the cathedral and each is unique. The time lapse series shows the son passing slowly across the sky creating different colored light and shadows the labels next to the art described the conditions in gray weather in the morning morning sun. Full sunlight and so on as monet's zeroes in on the play of colors late. The physical subject. The cathedral is dissolving. In fact to the impressionist the actual object is no longer the subject. It's now only iraq. Upon which to hang the light and color later artists would take things even further boldly throwing away the rack itself and leaving purely abstract modern art in its place in these. Same rooms are works by monet's friend renoir. Pierre auguste renoir dance at the moulin de la galette. Eighteen seventy six. Renoir started out as a painter of landscapes along with monet but later he veered from the impressionist philosophy and painted images. That were unabashedly pretty. He populated his canvases with rosy-cheeked middle-class girls performing happy domestic activities rendered in warm inviting style. He often did portraits of his friends. You may see a bearded monet or his own kids including his son. John men wa who grew up to make the landmark film grand delusion but renoirs specialty was always women and girls emphasizing. Their warm femininity renoirs. Lighthearted work uses light colors. No brown or black. The paint is thin and translucent. The outlines are soft so the figures blend seamlessly with the background. He seems to be searching for an ideal a kind of pure beauty. One specific painting by renoir is worth seeking out. Look for a large canvas of a crowd of happy dancers the dance at the milan delays on sunday afternoons working class folk would dress up and head for the fields on a hill overlooking paris called montmartre. It's near the sacre coeur basilica here. They dance drink any little crepes called guts until dark renoir. I'd like to go there to paint. The common parisians living and loving in the afternoon. Sun the sunlight filtering through the trees creates a kaleidoscope of colors like a nineteenth century. Disco ball throwing darts of onto the dancers. Renoir captures the dappled light with quick blobs of yellow dancing on the ground. The men's jackets and the sun dappled straw hat. It's just to the right of center. Smell the powder on the ladies faces. The painting glows with bright colors. Even the shadows on the ground which should be gray or black or colored a warm blue like a photographer who uses a slow shutter. Speed to show motion paints a waltzing blur in his last years. Renoir was confined to a wheelchair with arthritis. He continued to paint. He introduced more and more red tones. As if trying for even more warmth more beauty as renoir himself said there are enough ugly things in life. We're nearing the end of the impressionist rooms. And there's a cafe just ahead but before taking a break let's get a quick taste of the next generation of art post impressionism post. Impressionism is the style. That employs the impressionists. Bright colors while branching out in new directions works are scattered all over the museum. But start here. On the top floor with paul cezanne who many consider to be one of the founders of modern art. Paul says on pulses on brought impressionism into the twentieth century. After the color of monet the warmth of renoir and the passion van gogh says on's rather impersonal. Canvases can be difficult to appreciate bulls of fruit landscapes and portraits worsens passion. But it wasn't what he painted. That was important. It was how because of his innovative techniques. He's often called. I mean painter says on was virtually unknown and unappreciated in his lifetime. He worked alone lived alone and died alone. Ignored by but a few revolutionary young artists who understood his genius says ons brush was a blunt instrument with it. He bludgeoned reality into submission. Drag it across a canvas and leave it there. Too dry but says on the mediocre painter was a great innovator says on often painted landscapes of his native provence to paint iraqi brown cliff for example he used chunks of green tan and blue paint as building blocks where the impressionists built figure out of a mosaic of individual brushstrokes says unused blocks of paint to give it a more solid geometrical shape. A block of paint. Forming part of a rock in the foreground is the same size as one in the background flattening. The scene into a wall of brushstrokes. These chunks are like little cubes. It's no coincidence. That his experiments in reducing forms to their geometric basics inspired the cubists exit to the cafe and consider a well deserved break. There are toilets nearby a few steps down the hallway past the cafe. When you're ready to continue our tour start the next track which has directions to level to where you'll find the next stop on our tour. Vincent van gogh Vincent van gogh our tour continues downstairs on level to to get there from the cafe. Find the escalators. I prefer the ones going down. Find escalators and descend to level two. It'll take some time to get there so you may want to pause this audio guide until you reach level to once on level to enter an open air. Mezzanine overlooking the main floor will be touring the rooms along the right hand. Side of the open. Air mezzanine start along the mezzanine and find the entrance to the darkened room seventy to enter room seventy two the first of several rooms with works by van gogh and gauguin as you browse through. Vincent's art in room. Seventy two seventy two. Don't worry so much about finding specific paintings. Enjoy the bright colors in everyday scenes while rick give some background on van gogh impressionists have been accused of being lightweights. The colorful style lends itself to break the country scenes gardens sunlight on the water and happy crowds of simple people. It took a remarkable genius to add profound emotion to the impressionist style. Vincent van gogh or then hook as the dutchman himself would have pronounced it like michelangelo. Beethoven rembrandt wayne newton. A select handful of others put so much of himself into his work. That art and life became one. Vincent was the son of a dutch minister. He too felt a religious calling. Any spread the gospel among the poorest of the poor peasants and miners in overcast holland and belgium. He painted these hardworking dignified folks in a crude dark style reflecting the oppressiveness of their lives and the loneliness of his own as he roamed northern europe in search of a calling encouraged by his art dealer. Brother van gogh moves to paris and voila. The color he meets monet goes out drinking with gauguin talulah trek and soaks up the impressionist style. At first he paints like the others but soon he develops his own style by using thick swirling brushstrokes. Infuses life into even inanimate objects van gogh's brushstrokes curve and thrash like a garden hose pumped with wine. The social life of paris becomes too much for the solitary van gogh. He moves to the south of france at first in the glow of the bright spring sunshine. He has a period of incredible creativity and happiness. He's overwhelmed by the bright colors. Landscape vistas and common people. It's an impressionist dream. Come true but being alone in a strange country begins to wear on him and ugly man. He finds it hard to get a date. A painting of his rented bedroom in arles shows a cramped barebones place. He invites his friend gauguin to join him. They paint side by side and even take turns working on each other's canvases. In fact here at the orsay you'll often see their works displayed side-by-side they both have a similar style featuring bold colors and thick paint at first then go and gauguin get along great drinking carousing arguing passionately about art but after two months nerves. Get raw. Van gogh threatens gauguin with a knife which drives his friend back to paris in crazed despair. Fan go cuts off a piece of his own ear. The people of our realize they have a madman on their hands and convinced. Then go to seek help. He enters a mental hospital. Van gogh's paintings done in the piece of the mental hospital are more meditative. Fewer bright landscapes more closed in scenes with deeper almost surreal. Colors van gogh the preacher's son saw painting as a and he approached it with a spiritual intensity in his last days. Then go wavered between happiness and madness. He despaired of ever being sane enough to continue painting his final self-portrait shows a man engulfed in confused background of brushstrokes that swirl and rave but in the midst of this rippling see of mystery floats a detached island of a face. Perhaps his troubled is no that only a few months. He'll take a pistol and put a bullet through his chest also in room. Seventy two seventy two. You'll find work since comrade in art. Paul gauguin paul gauguin. Gauguin got the travel bug early in childhood and grew up wanting to be a sailor instead. He became a stockbroker in his spare time. He painted and was introduced to the impressionist circle. He learned their bright clashing colors but took a different path. Just about the time. Van gogh waved a knife in his face at the age of thirty five. He got fed up with it all quit. His job abandoned his family. His wife's stern portrait bust may be nearby and took refuge in his art. Gauguin traveled to the south pacific in search of the exotic. Finally settling in tahiti on the island of tahiti gauguin found his garden of eden. He simplified his life into a routine of eating sleeping and painting. He simplified his paintings still more to flat images with heavy black outlines filled in with bright pure colors. He painted the native girls in their naked innocence. So different from kabul seductive venus. But this simple style had a deep undercurrent of symbolic meaning gauguin's fascination with indigenous peoples and primitive art had a great influence on later generations. Matisse loved gauguin's clashing colors and picasso imitated gauguin's carved tribal statues gauguin's primitive style sent a message to his civilized colleagues. Back home that he'd found the paradise he'd always dreamed of exit rooms. Seventy two seventy two emerging back onto the opener. Mezzanine the essential or say tour includes one final artist. The sculptor rodin. His work is located along the mezzanine. Some near room seventy two others at the far end. I look to the left to see if there are. Any rodin works at this end of the mezzanine. Then starts strolling down the mezzanine to the far end where there are always more august rodin. The sculptor was born of working class. Roots was largely self taught. He labored in obscurity for decades. He supported his family by making knickknacks and doorknobs for a construction company. Finally by age forty. He started to gain recognition. Rodin subject was always the human body. He depicted people in unusual poses that express their inner emotion. Get close to a rodin statue. You'll see that. The surface is alive rippling with frosting like couches. Combining impressionist surfaces with the liberty rodin became the greatest sculptor. Since michelangelo as you go you may find a rodin statue of a man missing everything but his legs. The walking man like this statue of the walking man rodin had one foot in the past and one stepping boldly into the future this muscular forcefully striding man could be a symbol of the renaissance man with his classical power with no mouth or hands. He speaks with his body. Get close and look at the statues surface. This rough unfinished look reflects. Light like the rough impressionist brushwork. And that makes the statute come to life. Never quite at rest in the viewer's eye near dan's work. You may see sculpture by one. Rodin students camille claudel cuddle who became his model and muse also became his lover find a small bronze statue group of three figures by camille. Caudill camille rodin student and mistress may have portrayed they're doomed love affair here a young girl desperately reaches out to an older man who's led away reluctantly by an older woman. The center of the composition is the empty space left when their hands separate in real life. Rodin refused to leave. His wife and camille ended up in an insane asylum. Make your way to the far end of the mezzanine which has a few funnel works by rodin as you walk think of rodin's work process. Rodin made his bronze statues not by hammering sheets of metal. He used the classic lost wax. Technique it all started with a simple sketch. Rodin hired models to run squat leap and spin around his studio. Whoever they wanted when he saw interesting pose he deal freeze like the game statue maker. Exactly then he'd get out his sketch pad from a small sketch he'd grab a hunk of clay and start turning it into a statue. Rodin worked quickly. He used his powerful thumbs to make a small figure in clay. Then he and his assistants would reproduce it as a full-scale model a statue in clay or wet plaster. This model was then covered with a form fitting mold then. He poured molten bronze into the narrow space between the mold and the model. He'll let it cool and harden then remove the mould and vala rodin had a hollow bronze statue ready to be polished using the same model rodin could produce multiple copies. This is why there are many authorized bronze versions of the same rodin masterpiece all over the world at the far end of the mezzanine head toward the large ornamental. Doorway studded with statues. It's the gates of hell likes. Do we have to read. It gets just art okay. Rodin worked for decades on these doors depicting dante saw on his trip through hell in this one work rodin did a one hundred eighty six different figures exploring the entire range of human experience. The door contained some of rodin greatest hits. These are small versions of statues. He later did in full-size. Start at the top. where you'll find the three shades. These three forlorn figures. Point down right to where we're headed. Welcome to hell beneath them. The doors most famous statue the thinker. He sits squatting above the doorway. Contemplating man's fate. This two foot tall figure was the inspiration for the large scale version. That has become one of the most celebrated statues in the world. The thinker was meant to represent. Dante himself pondering. The poor souls down in hell rodin identified with this figure that he chose it to stand atop his own grave. Finally find what some say is a tiny self portrait of rodin himself. it's at the very very bottom. Just inside the right doorjamb. Look close to where it starts to jut out. Rodin the guy with the long beard kneeling. It's a humble signature for this epic work to complete our tour turn from rodin statues to once again surveyed the main floor look out at all those classical statues between you and the big clock and realize how far we've come not in years but in style changes rick many of the statues below beautiful smooth balanced an idealized. We're done at the same time as road and powerful and haunting works. Rodin is a good place to end this tour with a stable base of nineteenth century stone. He launched into the twentieth century. We hope you enjoyed our or say gallery walk. Thanks to jeanne. Openshaw co author of this tour. Remember this tour was excerpted. From the rick steves peres guidebook for more details on eating sleeping and sightseeing in paris referred to the most recent edition of that guidebook for more free audio tours and podcasts and for information about our guidebooks tv shows bus tours and travel gear. Visit our website at rick. Steves dot com. This tour was produced by cedar house. Audio productions thanks of goodbye for now.

paris orsay museum carbonnel monet europe van gogh gauguin edward manet rick Renoir degas Venus demayo dessel mohan renoir einstein abraham lincoln dickens darwin louis pastor john august dominique angra venus demayo alexander carbonell reagan ronald reagan
Biography of Vincent Van Gogh

A Biography Podcast - Life Histories of Successful People

22:59 min | 7 months ago

Biography of Vincent Van Gogh

"Hello listeners, Welcome to our biography podcast. This week's podcast is about Vincent van hoek. Vincent van hoek was a post-impressionist painter who is considered one of the top ten painters of all time his paintings which cost millions of dollars are studied by Art lovers all over the world. I am dedicated to him the fence and Van hoek Museum in Amsterdam is visited by almost 2 million people every year. Yet despite his Fame. He lived a very sad life as an unsuccessful artist at the time of his death. He was single had sold only one painting had been admitted in a mental Asylum and did not have stable job has words sadness will last forever after he shot himself stand testimony to the sad life. He lived. Listen to this episode of our biography podcast and find out how one of the most misunderstood people of the 19th century became a celebrated artist in the 20th century. Listen to the stories of men and women who transformed their lives using pure passion and sheer hard will to become the Pioneers in their field and change the course of history. This is Wizard of Oz biography podcast the podcast that home to learn the real truth about successful personalities subscribe now to get access to future episodes. Early life seabras van hoek worked as a pastor in the Netherlands during the 19th century has older brother was Vincent van hoek Vincent married a woman who came from a wealthy family on the western coast of the Netherlands during their wedding tiaras met the bride's elder sister Anna Cornelia car benches, and they were attracted to each other soon their mutual attraction turned into love and they got married in May 1851 one year later on March 30th. Eighteen fifty-two their first son was born they named him Vincent Willem van hoek. However long the baby was born dead. Exactly one year later on March 30th 1853 in zundert Netherlands, their second son was born the couple who were still grieving a death of their first son gave the same name to their second son as well their second son, Vincent Willem van hoek would later grow up and become a world-renowned artist. After fin since birth the couple had five more children two sons and three daughters of his five siblings his younger brother theaters also known as Theo would become thin since big J Patron friend and supporter. Even as a child Vincent was considered eccentric due to his choice of clothes and his eating habits unlike the other children. He was serious thoughtful and loved to be alone. He loved Birds insects and flowers. Vincent Van hoek did his early schooling at the local Village School in 1864 when he was eleven years old his parents sent him to a boarding school Vincent who felt alone and abandoned in a new school wanted to return home, but instead of letting him return home his parents sent him to another Middle School two years later the school which was in tilburg had a dedicated art teacher but thoughts and who was overcome by sorrow focused little on art has early paintings during this time were average and showed no hints of the famous artist. He would later become an 1868 Dodge after spending two years of the school Vincent abruptly returned home. The reason for this was probably that this new school proved to be too costly for his parents after all even though his father was a pastor and the church provided his family with a house several servants a carriage and a horse. His father's salary was modest. After returning from school since and spent a year at home. First job gal pal and Company was a company in the nineteenth Century that bought reproduced and sold famous artworks Vincent's Uncle Vincent Van hoek also known as Uncle Sam by his nephews was a partner in that company since he did not have any children of his own. He loved his nephews. So in 1869, he secured a job for sixteen year old Vincent as a junior clerk in his company's branch in the Netherlands. Vincent initially loved his job and worked hard. He showed remarkable results in the art business impressing his superiors. However, like in all his later Endeavors fence and soon grew frustrated and depressed with his job this led to the first reported incident of his psychological condition, which was most likely bipolar disorder alarmed at his mental state his brother Theo came to visit him when they returned home after visiting Vincent Vincent was saddened by his departure. So he wrote a letter to Theo in 1872. This letter would become the first recorded letter of the 819 letters from wrote to Theo and others these letters helped reconstruct Vincent's life and made fence and one of the few artists whose lives have been so well-documented. In 1873 the company promoted Vincent and transferred him to its London Branch his brother. Theo took Vincent's position in the Netherlands branch of gospel and Company. This year was the happiest years since life, even though he was just twenty years old. He was earning more than his father. Vincent's job in London transformed his life exposing him to English arts and literature Vincent loved English literature, especially the works of Charles Dickens and William Shakespeare. However, he was attracted to English paintings instead. He loved the works of Dutch painters like Rembrandt fence and also loved the form of art called realism, which focused on painting average working-class people on a day-to-day happenings. So the works of French and Dutch realist painters as well as landscape paintings fascinated him uncoincidentally. It is also during this time that fence and formed his initial opinions about the importance and role of Art. During his stay in London fence and fell in love with his landlord's daughter, but she rejected him because she was already secretly engaged to someone else after being rejected by his first love Vincent became more introverted an isolated alarm that his situation his uncle transferred him to Paris to distract him from his grief. However, it did not help him forget his sorrows and by 1875 it had become utterly miserable at times his thoughts became suicidal and triggered an existential crisis within him. Searching for a reason for his existence Vincent became profoundly religious and started reading the Bible compulsively his interest in religion and his disapproval of the extent to which the company commodified art made him lose interest in his job. So when he went home for Christmas without informing his company, he got fired in 1876 after losing his job since and worked odd jobs, like being a temporary teacher and selling books. interest in religion In 1877 looking at his interest in religion his family sent him to Amsterdam to prepare for the University of Amsterdam's theology entrance examination. He prepared for the entrance exam or living with his uncle who was a respected theologist during this time fence and also started to read and draw extensively while preparing for the exams fence and found the requirements on Latin Greek wage mathematics subjects unrelated to religion to be too high. So he quitted in July 1878 there after he went to Brussels to join a shorter 3-month course to become an evangelist missionary. However, after joining the course, he found out that he did not like it either so he quit again and went too boring h a coal mining District in Belgium where he volunteered to be a missionary off. After working without pay for months in January eighteen seventy-nine since and managed to get a temporary paid job the church provided him wages and lodgings to take care of the sick people and teach the Bible however wanting to show support for poor families fence and gave up the lodgings provided to him by the church to a homeless person instead. He stayed in a small Hut and slept on straw this along to church authorities who considered Vincent's acts as disrespect towards the church, so they asked him to leave After losing his paid job. He moved to another town called Christmas and started preaching without pay his service to the sick and needy and Q assumes earned him the respect of the residence life, even though the people liked him since and understood that he had failed as a preacher after all he could neither convince the people nor preach in a way simple enough for them to understand this triggered another existential crisis in him. And once again, he started wondering if he could be of any use in the world wondering what to do with his life Vincent who like the miners their lives and the scenes around them started capturing them in a drawings. Then he sent these sketches to his brother along with the letters. He sent him his brother Theo who looked at these sketches urged him to pursue a career as an artist. Life is an artist heating to his brother's advice and eager to establish his presence in the world through his art in 1880 Vincent van hoek went to Brussels to learn from the Dutch artist. William Ellis will and convinced fence and to enroll in the Belgian art school. So Vincent enrolled in the art school and learned the concepts of anatomy modeling and perspective however, as usual outfits and soon became restless and wanted to move to the countryside to draw landscapes and peasant life, but since he was living off the monthly allowances from his father and his brother Theo he couldn't do as he pleased. So in 1881 due to financial struggles, he moved to the Netherlands to live with his parents once again, Even though Vincent van hoek was living with his parents at the age of twenty-eight his time at home helped him improve his painting skills. It is during this time that fence and started painting portraits off. His sister is a model. He also learned to paint using charcoal and pastels from a cousin and famous Dutch realist painter Anton mauve Anton realized Vincent's potential as an artist and encourage him to continue drawing enthusiastic Vincent wrote to Theo telling him that what he had previously thought impossible was becoming possible now Vincent's love for Landscapes and painting Ordinary People had not left him yet. So he started painting these scenes using the new techniques. He had learned his paintings like portrait of an elderly gentleman and farmer sitting by the fireplace reading were painted during this time. Even though the time living with his parents benefited his art skills. It brought him pain in 1881 when his cousin key foes who had been recently widowed visited him he fell in love with her. She came after she refused to accept his marriage proposal. He persisted annoying both his parents and Keys parents. Heartbroken by another failed love attempt fence and left home and went to the city where Anton mauve was living Anton taught Vincent how to use oil to paint and lent him money to set up a studio. But despite Anton helping Vincent. They eventually fell apart due to differences in opinion Vincent who had little to no money could only hire people from the street to be his models back in 1882 while using a prostitute as a model for one of his paintings fence and fell in love with her their love grew and after a year The Prostitute and her little daughter started Living with Vincent the Palm too. Cold CN Hornick was made pregnant by another man. Jan had lost two children during infancy and was abandoned by all the four men who fathered her children. So Vincent decided to marry her because he didn't want her to feel abandoned anymore. But his family opposed his decision vehement Lee there for eighteen months after they first met they broke up because she didn't share fin since love for art and also because Theo objected to his brother's decision to marry a former prostitute CN would become the only woman with whom fence and lived heartbroken. Once again, Vincent Van hoek traveled to a desolate District in the Netherlands and started Living Like a gnome but by the end of 1883, he started feeling too lonely. So he moved in with his parents once again, While living with his parents Vincent Van hoek painted Weavers and their Cottages his famous painting The parsonage Garden at Newnan was painted during this time in the next two years. He painted a very rapid Pace finishing almost 200 oil paintings numerous watercolors and drawings by this time Vincent's technique had improved a lot. However, he was merely adopting the style of other Dutch artists and hadn't created his own style yet at that time. Theo was working in Paris, which was the world center of art at that time. So Vincent sent his paintings including his first major work that took a toll eaters to Theo so that he could sell them but Theo couldn't sell any of them because they were darker compared to the bright impressionist paintings, which people loved Then November 1885 Vincent moved to Antwerp to study at the Academy of Fine Arts during this time. He became interested in Japanese art and the works of Monet and other impressionist painters back in January 1886. Hoping to improve his understanding of figure drawing which is the practice of drawing from a live model in different poses Vincent enrolled at the Academy after attending the first drawing classes. He found out to his dismay that the academy doesn't use nude models. So he used the money which Theo sent him to hire nude models and by painting materials therefore he had very little money left for food for several months. He survived on bread coffee. And tobacco alone has a result. He became ill and his teeth became loose and painful moreover. He came into conflict with his instructors and teachers do to his unconventional painting style. So in March 1886, he moved to Paris where Theo was After moving in with Theo Pinson started working as an apprentice for the painter Fernand Gorman. This allowed him to meet other painters who became his friends with the help of Theo who was selling real life impressionist paintings. He could meet several impressionist painters, including Monet. Finally Vincent Van hoek felt that he was a part of a community of artists moreover. He got ample opportunity to study the techniques of other painters and greatly admired the work of Monticello. As a result in two years from March 1886 to February 1888 Vincent Van hoek techniques improved at an extraordinary rate. He created his own style by studying impressionist paintings Japanese art and the techniques used by Old Dutch painters. He aimed to distort the reality and natural laws to express deep intense emotions and touch people. So he went beyond the confines of impressionism. He utilized opposing colors to harmonize brutal extremes while distorting and exaggerating forms to convey the overwhelming emotions. He felt deep within him this unique style of art was appreciated by several artists when he exhibited his paintings in 1888, but despite the growing interest among fellow artists for his paintings. He couldn't sell a single painting. Vincent's artistic skills improved tremendously during his stay in Paris, where as his health deteriorated terribly. He often neglected his health while painting rigorously his drinking habits and poor eating habits along with his previous psychological condition led to depression violent mood swings and erratic behavior in a letter to his sister Theo remarked how living with fincen felt like living with two people gift of delicate person and another heartless selfish person in February 1888 due to stress and alcohol Vincent Van. Hope came close to a physical and mental breakdown. So despite earning the respect of his fellow artists in Paris Vincent decided to move away from the stressful life in Paris to a more peaceful place in southern France. Charles was a peaceful City their fence and painted the winter landscape and the portraits of local residents whom he befriended he produced some of his famous paintings including the sunflower series and our boss. He was extremely productive painting at a frantic Pace, but despite producing some of the world's remarkable paintings fence and still hadn't made a single sale yet the more he painted the more convinced. I became that his paintings would become historically important. Vincent left Paris to escape from the fast-paced life there, but after arriving in Arles and painting at a rapid Pace, he longed for the company of other artists after all The Melancholy and his obsession with creativity was destroying his mental health. So he invited artists from Paris in July 1888. Paul Gauguin accepted his invite and came to orals. They both had intended to start an art community in Arles initially. They got along well exchanging paintings and debating about art. Vincent admired him and wanted goggan to treat him as an equal but gogin was domineering and arrogant this led to arguments between Vincent and Gauguin. In December 1888 Upon returning home after one such heated argument since and suffered auditory hallucination and mental collapse cutting off his left ear. He then gifted the severed ear to a prostitute in the hopes of acquiring her love. He then returned home a policeman found him unconscious in his home the next morning and took him to a hospital when he woke up the next day Vincent couldn't remember what he had done the previous night, even though fence and healed physically the delusions and hallucinations continued more over 30 people signed a petition to get his house closed down. So he voluntarily admitted himself took Asylum three months later in May 1889. That the Asylum Vincent van hoek was given a room to stay in a studio to paint. He was even allowed to go Outdoors to paint during his one-year stay at the Asylum. He painted some of his most famous paintings including her eyes has and Starry Night. Slowly Vincent's Works were becoming popular and people were starting to acknowledge his skill in January 1890 the French literary magazine Mercure de France praised his work and gave him a genius when his paintings were displayed in Brussels. One of his paintings was sold for four hundred francs later when his paintings were exhibited in the artistes independence in Paris Monet said thought since paintings were the best in the show. Meanwhile, Vincent's Health was deteriorating hallucinations and breakdowns started to reoccur. Sometimes it took one month for Vincent to fully recover and resumed painting off with time Vincent accepted that his condition was incurable and he had to live with it. So in May 1890, he left the Asylum and went to offers a town north of Paris, but Theo was worried about his brother's condition. So he made arrangements for a doctor to supervise him. During the time he lived in offers since and worked frantically producing seventy paintings in 70 days, including portraits and Landscape paintings of wheat Fields Vincent believed that his paintings would be admired by people who will be born one hundred years. Later. Vincent's frantic pace of painting was slowly getting the better of him and he started getting into depression and showing erratic behavior on June 27th, eighteen ninety while taking a walk in the wheat field where he had been painting Vincent Van hoek shot himself in the chest. He then walked back to his room where doctors attended him, but they couldn't save him so they left him alone. The next morning came to be at his brother's side Vincent was smoking a pipe fence and told him the sadness will last forever. Finally Thirty hours after he shot himself Vincent Van. Hope died his final words to his brother were I wish I could die like this. Feel himself was suffering from Psychiatric problems and a sexually transmitted disease his brother's death further weakened him. So six months after Finn's death t o died in an attack them in the Netherlands seos wife Johanna who was a supporter of Vincent gathered Vincent's paintings in 1901. She displayed these paintings at a show in Paris soon as his Fame grew tremendously and people came to respect him in 1914. She published a letters that fence and Van hoek sent and received this increase the interest in the artist's life whose paintings already extremely Famous by now. Fact you probably didn't know in nineteen-eighty-seven sunflowers became the most expensive painting that was sold at an auction. The record was broken two years later by another painting of and Van hoek called arises today. Her eyes is the 15th most expensive painting ever sold. Vincent Van hoek created about twenty one hundred pieces of Art in a decade after starting his professional art career. He sold only one painting in his entire life. Vincent Van hoek died when he was thirty-seven years old. He painted a portrait of Felix Ray the Doctor Who treated him when he cut his ear and gifted the portrait to him, but Doctor Ray gave it away because he didn't like the painting. The painting was worth fifty million dollars in 2016. Vincent's brother Theo was initially buried in Utrecht. But in nineteen fourteen has wife reburied him in the grave next to Finn since grave Vincent Van hoek's uncle's name was finishing van hoek and one of his nephews name was also fence and Van hoek. We hope that this episode of our biography podcast help you learn about Vincent van hoek and how he struggled in his life if you have a vision, but you don't want to work on it because it seems impossible. Listen to the biography of Vincent Van. Hope despite all his struggles in life. He kept improving his skills and focused on his vision rather than making money, so don't give up on your page just because it hasn't made you rich instead improve your skills and keep working on it so that you can give your best shot when the opportunity comes knocking. If you liked this episode and learn something from it, please give us a 5-star rating in your favorite podcast app. It will help more people to find our podcast and in turn motivate us to continue making office episodes. If you have a suggestion for us, please send us a tweet. You will find our Twitter Link in the episode description.

Vincent van hoek Vincent Vincent Willem van hoek Vincent van hoek Theo Pinson Vincent Van Paris Vincent Van hoek Van hoek Museum the Netherlands Paris Vincent Van hoek Monet Amsterdam zundert Netherlands Brussels Dodge Finn Twitter
GUI Nights - Breathe Consumption On Me Daddy!

Geeks Under the Influence

30:24 min | 1 year ago

GUI Nights - Breathe Consumption On Me Daddy!

"The views and opinions expressed on Geeks or the influence or that of the panelists and not of our sponsors Amazon dot com and t public rental discretion is advised. Yeah Oh no no I am not completely do so big like it's it's unexplainable you can't really understand how creepy this is look how if only you could imagine how creepy it is was lovecraft but he understood it though yeah upset Boy Godfather we gotta gotTa roll with that that's what he was I mean master macabre the man who kind of set a precedent and create an entire genre of of an entire uh-huh element to writing you know like created the detective novel so that's the detective story I mean no one else wrote like lovecraft was on a different find me the influence and he's the gooey night so right yeah yeah so he's spoken trump trump doubles down the trump of podcast it's okay so my favorite lovecraft adaptation is gone level of horror writing than was lovecraft was like the the Donald Trump of horror where he is like it's so big I can't even explain to you how big it is it's just I can't even with the spooky you go Less I mean heard from us we were talking about at ground po one of the again hey look good yeah I get where you're going with that just who'd never again we're again please speak in a lovecraft it's amazing that's ridiculous I was like oh I was thinking in my head like they're probably going to ask like oh it's a pro take on breath daddy the big huge podcast host you you guessed so huge anyway as ah dirty dirty let's move right along let's just stop that the Oh fuck slow and there was a join this spooky season spooky and Algeria. Gui We definitely are so in this episode of Gyi nights we're going to keep it the thing I kept saying day gone I'm like that is somebody completely different Toyota Day on we get the panel we got trump to my right dad no no no Bird you I quit just like before I came on here I was like I was like Oh like I was saying pony new lovecraft I was getting mixed up in my head I was like what's my favorite nice and then next aiming we've got audrey that so quite that no one absolutely yeah and they may you know as a little kid they're just like Oh yeah here's the notes puncture ooh substances addict of his own self worth their yeah so we wanted to continue on go get GRANDPA fuck all right so and and me I'm the host of this shit show I slowdown Brown lowdown Brown yeah I enjoy this fucking fun train all train wreck it's amazing so we Oskar wild was a fucking drinker to like he drank his foods off Lot of the beat writers did the same I mean Karaoke was abuser of gins aw I don't want that man with them you know agreed that Manohla but seriously though got Mike Gaba right now the next panelist we were the we're the too close to mini-debate after this is aiming I the title somehow made some Shit on me daddy who is the coast on the influence and he runs bishop any runs blue's clues and Iran's Trivia in Richmond I'm here to make podcast and great again and go into just writers Nair Addictions and there is a common thread with the creative mind it seems like my favorites are like the the Classic Alcoholic Writer trope writers like Berkovsky is like right on top of that fucking lists hunters top on her as Thomson him sexual relations with President all the time yeah are you sure that wasn't in a murder there's nothing fucked up Dr Wearing it in hell but I mean I mean there's I mean Stephen King was an avid drunk we left us we were talking about demand Graham we're going to continue in the vein of the man had his demons he was he was an addict of sorts multiple closest continued to your listeners thing anymore is it now Gusto with things getting shot Yeah Oh my God so fucking turned on me at all no really affect Berkeley shirt that says podcast drunk at it sober ooh cheers that's going to have to happen that's good stuff right there they're right back then why is that not a musical like you're hitting all the notes of of a rent musical gay her when addict turtle is just like kids just this one girl like turtle currently one of the relatives from Texas chainsaw was drawing blood house calls suit -fensive to love the book is wrong swiping odd damn what I mean is that like the thing with lovecraft is and this has me back as okay okay okay all the kids fuck each other why the monster the veteran probably should be there should be yeah I mean Hemingway's most famous quote I would think is right drunk I want my dream noodle how turtles do who was gay heroin and he didn't think you could ever be society reconcile all that yeah you know how to handle all that noise right that was not on the Mike at all the the resident spook there you go you didn't spooky girl of the bat there's one girl every week the turtle do all right yes and then he also directed maximum overdrive completely cook up as a mind so we got that he like he was so fucking wacked out of his mind that he was in the dark as part of the brain you wrote some fucked up shit you can read his shit and be like Oh oh cocaine the weird puritanical coworker liquid cocaine in this office okay dude this is my first okay remember writing half of his he's he doesn't do read on writing maze of his writing brothers he's like I don't fuck in Ed Sober Nice that's his most famous thing that is brilliant puck is based on that and we have to be least-favourite adaptation of his movies ever and heat directed it so that's just a clue of what all the booze in in this Norton and all that gets you right ember any he doesn't remember the eighties into the mid Nineties fifteen to sixteen year Gabbara he's a new idea I don't know what he wrote some of his greatest shit in darkest shit in I'm just call that what I do when I go out on the weekend for the booze and snorting this weekend went out and did yea in prevention well my doctor they would be like here's a smiley face here's is here's a mouth here's the nose have an issue question my fucking methods happy a second ago when you find out cokes involving also got a fucking problem I have next year's numbers done stuff heroin so that's more it's a Downer and in in it's getting back into the OPIOID addiction because PLO smoked opium but then you've got somebody to the next level where he was shooting up and Franca Netted Oh God you basically Hemingway Jason Oh it makes me feel better there's Thompson oh never seen the hunter S. Thompson writing schedule it was an article he did like an interview with Berg fucking like rose boroughs was Alex he would remember that with those junkers about he's being a war vet cool our not at work you're paying me and then you spend a lot of money so it's like double down and it was like a boozing legal yet ready I think it was hunter S. Thompson Oh God if it's not I truly apologize but I think it was him and he did some sort of interview where he did like a day in the life kind of thing and go fuck each other yeah no they only ran the tree they didn't fuck each other they just ran the gang is this a problem highly productive should fucker type three hundred words I don't understand the drunkard part of it is always something wrong so hotly debated whether well I know I'm getting the author wrong I'm wanting to say CS Lewis and I know that's not right but my yell Mr Lion Witch and the wardrobe all right everybody them sold yet played into the future cocaine thank you can read colors sponsored by big cocaine stories of hey way rabbit here yeah that's an altar there you go substance abuse in the middle of it was a lunch of cocaine in and he's pointing out that like out of your lunch box and you open it up and you've got like a little it just comes out like respects like your life to give me more you have little kids with cocaine LSF setting if they all did cocaine together I'd be less upset about them running and train twelve hours of doing like Coca Day rains fucked Oh it's happening now in your head is like a sugar skull in the rain wonder why it got himself you know the kind of person that results after like years and years and years of copious amounts of coq use like you looking at McCain sponsored by Columbia you have other like to talk about burroughs who Oy gone you're basically Tony Nevermore imagine get it I'm good done just having ever happening there ever again forked up all the neurons things cl- sparking and making happiness you're done oh yeah Obama down so please give him his the Christian guy wrote Allison Wonderland Lewis that way Norton I could have been like laugh snorting you've made the determination man what they're doing when you're not at work in my brain is like fucked up no but yeah remiss and it's just like just vodka poll lunch boggling respect the ghosts in snorting tell your office jobs joe workers the Best Burnley spend the money on a jesuit now I'm good like they'd be like okay well you take a drug test right AH I was looking for it and that's what I was looking off now and then you hear that leased twelve of the twenty four hours spent snorting cocaine drugs drugs that's just right for like four hours he was smoking opium or not but you've got di Mi thing that's like look the new thing and you grow smaller I so but that's something that I've noticed with not just writers but also just musicians and contact readers in general like artists whether it'd be painting or whatever kind of the reason why these people get into that industry is because I feel like outsiders they feel outside of the norm they feel get into an unnatural relationship with your mom then you turn into HP lovecraft you know that there's something since I mean when you look at like Art Paul Gauguin as one of my favorite painters and he was a stockbroker in Paris he was like rolling in it had a great upbringing nothing ever went wrong in your life is perfectly mediocre then you have nothing to express like there's nothing bad that's ever happened there's nothing that everything that moved Oh total sex addict started doing all the drugs that he could get his hands on and died from the medication and pills also drug alcohol meth coke like he had his own struggles to he was are either trying to escape through creat- creative means or something so a lot of the time that also lends itself to drug use what was what was care wax thing was and he looked at his life he was married kids and was like this isn't it this isn't the way I wanna live my life like this is so buttoned up see moved to Tahiti start a fucking nothing outside of the norm that you have to share with the rest of the world but if your dad left near mom died a year one he moved to another state and then there's struggle in early days struggling with sexuality and how people dealt with that yeah that'd be me pretty there's just consumption is chasing you like the monsters in from the mouth of madness then yeah you have something to go on to you know you have something to on creative who has had his own issues with substance abuse and we'll dig into this little heavier later on but I'm Clive Barker he oh yeah was he rugs and shit like that and six months into it realizes that he's really happy and doesn't WanNa die anymore yeah deco to the zone kiesha riders a lot of these writers. I'm in Hemingway had some worship that he was working through I mean like every everybody's got the shit like of the writers aren't painters whatever musicians all have stuff booze and heroin use a boozer and marijuana cigarettes because it is now fucking count now booze way we're so fucking it's all happy suck not an angry look yeah exactly and he died and he died happy either from civilised because he definitely less but also from drug overdose and that's the way he wanted to go out was not like this you know buttoned up like that he was living was the story of like the dude that went to Mexico like fuck brain out brains out and drink and do three but you can totally look at statistically yeah okay there you go it's way worse yeah so it was a boozer and that makes me either artisanal total like oh I'm GonNa get the art of the Tahitian drugs into Hiti do they come with a little umbrella in Bhai Society is this kind of demented sexual interest and he's like it seems pretty chill to me like people with our into it like everybody's like will like electrocuted but they do T. after our then we into shower why do you WanNa kill the community wondering pruning body you know what I'm saying I don't want them to die like they should shower to make sure the bacteria build up but he's another in his his dark yeah fuck yeah so pedia Sam which is another is probably struggling with is having this like what was seen just like all the Rooney body from being in leather for so long and you're like all right let me just rinse off a little bit and then and then t yea and then we drink tea afterwards and that's what you do after like being strapped to some board and like you nip become a real issue later you're like things off all the stuff off your father it yeah he had a cat with a very terrible name yeah yeah discussed openly on and I'm like Oh Salem Artists Luna you know any any name for a black cat besides what he is he never had he was he I think he was married but it was like often seen as almost like a a beard type situation yeah I don't think he was gay really but ultimately he was Kinda shut in when he was in his younger years he can like and yet just never really developed social mannerism I kind of just this weird borderline like spectrum dude that had some real like mother issue stuff that he was so there was a lot of him just not being able to engage in society and that's that's why he went into cosmic horror yeah he died of cancer of the small intestine suffered news at at least probably either completely sexualities of foreign idea to actual like probably a sexual that's what a lot of people coming on that he was a sexual got a story for the podcast ally here's another it's almost like a fucked up version mommy dearest its own Wa okay well like he just was very awkward and just never really had the ability to connect with other people like even to the point where yeah that's me that's me well going back to lovecraft what was his thing he was moving from the weird awesome other issues I mean his mom dressed him as a girl for like the first like as a doll basically yeah the first likes over malnutrition so do need either yeah area themselves in their work and let's just creepy creepy work and also his how many years of his life a vessel probably had some who do you sound like he had these beautiful ringlets and everything so and like half the report ended up being about opium because after reading all the history of the dude I was like yeah he was like he was like Yay opium he was are what have you so a lot of these folks that are doing this also have a lot of other crutches they lean on whether it be booze or pills or the Konya or IBM if it's literally anyone from like eighteen fifty earlier I think everyone was on opium Samuel Taylor Coleridge I did a whole report up getting look hamburgers that were like the size of silver dollars like each dinner easy the axe who she I think ultimately it comes to you know tragedy breeds creativity a lot of the time with with creative types and whether it be literature art or music ever left or something that table is actually trying to learn how to speak backwards for a while you bad and I'm just like what all the names you could land on Lake I have two black cats higher inland empire Jesus that's a long fucking what was a early one elephant man oh hopkins and that shit backwards and like you know the red room and everything yes so it's like they learned how to say these things completely how they sound they didn't just go through and just just make everything backwards they actually learned how to talk when they were talking they learnt how to speak wide open about that but everyone else kinda sucks but I'm good with being mean Soviet me feel like shit for me you know and he's like to but I'm cool with it it's a different kind of sock with he will racist word that his cat's name based on something that was a very loose adaptation in the first place and you get it to look like it matches the original with with still adding to it did you do that trust them like a doll now goes because it could been woman reached just like I am fabulous and then we had like very progressive writer talk backwards it's actually very interesting like if you have joined peaks episode grill that was discussed coming out of your mouth backwards so it wasn't like in the post editing or whatever they just took the audio that they were saying normally and then just flip day they learned how twenty forty nine the some of the last part of the movie I was just like but it was nice look at I would say that like I think that back history though but the actually the earlier stuff from all both of those directors lynch might have been like eaten up by backwards talking midget when he was a kid and then just Yuki your face addiction wow mark yeah it was a dare dare commercial radio commercials mentioned flaked changing gender norms like in the twenties but no that is not what we know why would Mike Okay so again that is all that's going to happen on this and good night and go home the GUI PODCAST DOT com. That's about as well as you can do a sequel to blade runner I mean you're going from no source material at this point so you're just kind of scratching it up and you're making it like the biggest opium guy he was all about the opium I mean I guess I get there how how explain the ones who are just completely house like let me try to learn to speak fight I do love that that's the sentence that was set on the show is like I was actually trying to learn while God damn shit show anyway so we'll be enjoyed this episode and you dig into some of their work you know if you haven't read any boroughs you ever read any like day one I think we really need to yeah just choose to be split up because we've got to impeach his should dessert it will be an entire episode yeah but yeah so we got all right so we got a little from this Buki but we kept it kept somewhat spooky some spillway if you tried to keep its poop the soundtrack soundtrack on well done with just mimicking and if not improving that ominous overbearing sound yeah so if you have a problem with drugs or alcohol were all drinking out this is not the podcast you to help you through that maybe podcast is actually we should be listening to this Mike Hobbit no no good guidance check out the podcast available just create fucked up shit like David Lynch and you've got Kronenbourg Yeah I don't really have a lot of drug habit stuff now I don't know that they're there. Four Trivia between eight

lovecraft opium Amazon Donald Trump Algeria Toyota David Lynch Buki Hemingway Mike Hobbit boozer heroin marijuana twenty four hours one elephant sixteen year twelve hours four hours six months
Silencing Science (Rebroadcast)

Reveal

52:17 min | 1 year ago

Silencing Science (Rebroadcast)

"Now you can get enhanced security for your home wifi network with Xfinity X. Fi if it's connected it's protected now. That's simple easy awesome. GO TO XFINITY DOT COM call one eight hundred xfinity or visit a store today to learn more restrictions apply support comes from the Saint Louis Art Museum inviting visitors on a journey through artist Paul Gauguin's fascinating career in the new exhibition Paul Gauguin the art of invention from impressionist ernest paintings and prints to sculptures ceramics inspired by his world travels Paul Gauguin the art of invention unveils the artists innovative and experimental style on view July twenty first through September fifteenth at the Saint Louis Art Museum mm-hmm Info at s. l. a. m. Dot Org from the Center for Investigative Reporting N._p._r.. X.. This is reveal a mallet season. It's officially hurricane season. Plus is that time of year when a lot of people ahead to national parks on their vacations so we're updating show from earlier this year. It's about the suppression of science especially Climate Change Science at federal agencies reveals US government data to make maps of future flooding at ten popular U._S. U._S. parks near coastlines are science reporter. Elizabeth Shogren is with me Elizabeth. Hello Al Okay so let's look at some of these maps. This one is the National Mall in Washington D._C.. That's what the mall looks like now but take the cursor and swipe left okay so I'm seeing the Martin Luther King Memorial the Vietnam Wall are submerged. The Washington monument is just a little island surrounded by water and the coastline now goes right up against the Pentagon. This is what the Mall would look like in twenty only fifty if the east coast gets hit with a category three hurricane this is from National Park Service Projections and Al You're from Florida right Yep check out the map for everglades national park here it is today so <hes> the water order is all around the tip of Florida and this is what it could look like in twenty fifty after a category five hurricane. The tip of Florida is gone. It's like the coastline has has come up significantly these maps show what could happen if greenhouse gas emissions keep rising. The problem is research like this has had a tough time under president trump scientists working for the government have been ignored or attacked. They've been de funded or even censored. Let me tell you the story of what happened to one particular scientist I Maria Maria fascinates me because so many things about her unexpected. She's got this career dedicated to U._S.. National Parks but she grew up in a gritty neighborhood in London. She raced cars for fun. I grew up over you by Heathrow Airport so it was airplanes and roads and congestion and stuff like that so I think that's why I got into environmental science. It was just so foreign to me. I was like wow I love to have a job where they actually get to go out and be nature. That's a little different. She's an idealist. She picked climate change because she hoped her science would have a positive impact on the world under President Obama addressing climate change was a top priority so so being climate scientists was kind of being an astronaut in the nineteen sixties. That's when President Kennedy challenged Americans to beat the Soviet Union to the Moon in twenty twelve. Maria launched her big mission to come up with estimates limits how much flooding could be expected in national parks because of climate change. It was heady stuff. She was a university of Colorado scientists contacted by the National Park Service. She just started on this work. When New York got hammered by hurricane? Hurricane Sandy Sandy has killed more than ninety people in ten states. Even the doc on Liberty Island has been washed away. The Statue of Liberty is off limits because the island on which it stands was damaged by rising floodwaters Lady Liberty Liberty Hershey Park Rangers could get their. Maria was still in her P._J.'s when her phone rang at home early that morning Park Rangers urgently needed her estimate of how high floodwaters had gotten at the Statue of Liberty. She crunched the numbers in in about an hour and got her estimate to park managers but she felt park should have had that kind of information long before storms hit. It's really important to have that information wayne advance before that storm ever happens when storms coming in Park Christoff are scrambling to get ready for the storm right so they can't sit on a phone call we scientists it took a long time for years for Maria to calculate the risks for a hundred eighteen national parks that are exposed to rising. Thanks sees finally in the autumn of Twenty Sixteen. She was getting ready to publish. She gave park managers a preview in a Webinar it is such a pleasure to be here today on beacon toilet the end of project uh-huh been working on for a long time. It's great to be able to get Maria told National Park Staff. She had projections of how much water levels will rise at each park by twenty thirty twenty fifty and twenty one hundred if people reduce greenhouse gas emissions and if they don't and if a major storm hit won't happen if we upped the ante a little bit. She showed the park staffers of Math Washington D._C.. Getting slammed by Category Two hurricane in twenty one hundred the entire National National Mall is shaded blue. It's all underwater the Natural History Museum the White House visitor's center even the Environmental Protection Agency the lot of flooding taking place here <hes> ranging up to around fifteen feet of flooding flooding in some location park manager seemed eager for this information. Maria told them her research would be published soon in twenty seventeen but before that could happen donald trump was elected he announced is the U._S.. Would exit the Paris Climate Change Treaty. He started rolling back policies. The clean power plan auto emission standards lots of people worried about the fate of science under trump enormous crowds marched across the country in defense of Science. What about Maria was? She worried about her research a bit but her supervisor's reassured her that her or science was safe. I had heard that we should not let politics interfere with our work. Which is the way I've always conducted myself? The park service had already edited her report and sent it out for Peer Review and I was told it was locked from editing getting Schmidt it was going to be released any day now. Zimmerman press releases were drafted to send to the media. This is may twenty seventeen they were about to publish and then something came up and they chose to delay the the delay seen temporary and then I was notified again in September that they wanted to release it but then Hurricane Harvey hit Texas followed by Irma and Maria Pummeling the Caribbean and Florida and they didn't release it after all. Maria was left guessing why the repeated delays were frustrating for her but she was distracted by another big project she gave birth to her first child at the end of December twenty seventeen and went on maternity. Leave okay so we're up to two thousand eighteen trust been president for more than a year and this report still hasn't been released yeah. That's a long delay. I got curious if her research was getting ensnared by the trump administration I e mailed a park service spokesman who said the report was still an internal review so I filed public records requests with the Park Service and the University of Colorado. Marie is home base. The park service stalled but the university city responded pretty quickly and gave me eighteen different drafts of the report dating from August Twenty Sixteen to March twenty eighteen eighteen different drafts. What did you find there'd been lots of changes? The early drafts had many references to humans causing climate change and flooding the national parks then about a year after trump became president after the report had been considered final for months. The changes started showing up. The park officials commented that this was really unusual for instance. The first sentence of the executive summary Read anthropogenic climate change presents challenges to national park managers. If Roper genyk meaning humans inch right. It's the scientific term for people causing something aversion from January twenty eighteen dropped the word anthropogenic and other references to people causing climate change. I could see that those changes were made by a park service spokesman C'mon and the head of the Park Service's Climate Change Response Program. That's the part of the park service that supposed to help parks get ready for climate change. They'd Scrub the report of all mentions of humans causing climate change an email exchange change showed their boss had just communicated his quote anthropogenic concerns. I called Maria and told her about the draft side seen and what would you do if your report came out as I saw it edited without any reference to the human causes of climate change. I'd be very disappointed if they will weds that will being attributed to me that I didn't right so. Have you been under any pressure from colleagues to delete words from your report that you think are important to have in your report. <hes> I really want to get into that today today. Maria sounds very nervous there. Do you know why she's afraid. Maybe this research that's consumed five years of her. Life might never see the light of day after this. You wrote a story for reveal about how Marines report was altered and it got a lot of attention so today the nonprofit investigative journalism amortization reveal came out with a stunning report that official this M._S._n._B._C. Dozens of news organizations picked up the story mattress members of Congress called on the Interior Department's Inspector General to investigate the park service's part of Interior Interior Department told reveal that no one was available to comment but Secretary Zinke must be shocked to learn this because those edits. That's where made just one month before he was on Capitol Hill testifying under oath. I don't know of any document we've changed in. I challenge you any member to to find a document that we've actually changed on a report. Ryan Zinke was defensive and declared his department would never alter science Zinke was forced to resign in December under accusations that he used his office for personal financial gain but several months earlier just after my story came out he was on Capitol Hill answering questions about it. Nobody no political has ever seen that document and I haven't seen the document so I want an investigation how the document got around the press before. Even we had a chance to look you think that's fair. zinke focused on the leaks to the media not his department's violation of a basic principle of civil society scientific Integrity Democratic Congresswoman Shelley pingree from Maine was seated across from him she wasn't convinced. Can you assure me that you are not going to deny any references to climate change and that you will allow for the inclusion in documents from the Department of material that have a human impact on climate change. I if it's a scientific report uh-huh right. I'm not going to change comment last. May I went to Denver to visit Maria. I wanted her to tell me her version of the story and compare it to what Zinke had said on Capitol Hill. We sat in our small backyard in the warm afternoon Sun. So how long have you lived here. We just kind of moved in I was pregnant and it was like we need to find a proper house for a baby so you've been through a lot in the the last few months childbirth and then that was all right about sprite back but her life is still topsy turvy because of her troubles with the park service I was so proud of my work with the national parks and helping to be part of America's legacy and now it's kind of like well. What's the point she grimaces? It's been a turbulent few months. There's been sleepless nights because of a baby and then there's been sleepless nights lights because of some of the West Times of my career Maria rejected the edits to her report several times but then she was called to Park Service offices in Fort Collins Colorado for a meeting with a big boss from Washington Marie his lawyer told her not to tell me any names but emails. I got from the park service show. She's talking about ray savage. Oh He's the head of natural resources and science for the parks. Seven hundred scientists and other staff are under him. He wouldn't do an interview with me but here he is giving a big speech at U._C._l._A.. In twenty seventeen it is my responsibility to the American public to make sure that we and they have the best information to make the most affected decisions about how we understand and protect our resources this greater public good it is a responsibility to do good science and to support scientists Sasho said but Maria felt attacked not supported during her meeting this spring with savage Oh i she started telling him about her report report and that's when he interrupted and said I have some reports here. Maria says savage oh held a stack of papers and told her they were recent reports by another government agency they concern climate change uh-huh. There's no reference to the human causes of climate change. He wanted to know why Maria had to mention humans. If government scientists who wrote the other reports didn't and that's when we started smacking the table with the the papers and saying but these reports don't have these terms in it it kind of escalated from there. He raised his voice a lot. Maria says he suggested he might lose his job if she didn't agree to the edits and who do you think that GonNa replace me with. Do you think they're going to be as nice to you as I am and then suggesting that the climate change response program in general could disappear if I chose to keep these words in the report savage wasn't the only one pressuring Maria another Park Service official told her in a telephone call that anthropogenic and human activities were banned words at the Interior Department under president trump that official warned Maria the report might never ever be released unless she agreed to the edits. Maria says a third official took her on a walk to try to persuade her. It's different kinds of bullying and pressure from different people even people Maria had worked with for years. You know people were saying that they could lose their jobs than please think that I've got children Maria. I've got children the implying I should be thinking of their kids. It was a lot of pressure to make changes. If one person says one thing and then another person says another thing offer while it really starts to build up and it becomes an absolute mountain what's that look on your face. I I just <music> disappointment. These people held in very high esteem people who have really respected to catch them in some instances telling mistruths truth or misleading statements and sometimes frankly just flat out lying. It's wrong. It's very disappointing because it's not the park service that I fought. I worked for excuse me I'm getting a tissue. It's not just Maria being emotional and more than that the edits the always being asked to make violated the scientific integrity policy in my opinion the park service's scientific integrity policy forbids decision makers from altering scientific work through quote coercive manipulation censorship or other misconduct. Maria kept rejecting the AD. It's her supervisor's wanted her to make the park. Service didn't publish without her okay maybe because the University of Colorado stepped in to assert her intellectual property rights under her contract or maybe because they knew reveal was watching and so were the senators and representatives who demanded an investigation. The park service appointed a mediator. The Guy said to me if we couldn't agree then report would be released in a format Oh matt that he would not tell me and without my name on it. It was certainly a technique to encourage me to make edits. I was not comfortable with. I felt very pressured intimidated. That's baby Catherine. Her Dad. Just brought her home. Maria is focused shifts the future she's working under a new contract with the park service until February but not on climate change and she's earning a lot less money. What I'm making right now doesn't even pay my day care for my baby so there's certainly a lot of why am I doing miss on hoping long-term all work out at least one or two an example of someone fighting back because at some point he's going to get bullied or she's going to get pressure on her and so I want to see someone standing up to bullies right yeah U.? A. Park Service spokesman tried to explain away the edits and the harassment as a normal dispute among co-authors to park service officials are named as Co authors on the report but we sued the park service under the freedom of Information Act they finally gave us thousands of pages of documents they back up Maria story they show her rejecting at its repeatedly over months and fighting for her science. It's clear from the documents that Ray savage from the park service interfered but there were lots of lines in paragraphs redacted whole pages blacked out so it's not clear how far up the Department of Interior's chain of command the censorship went went. Essentially I feel I've been shut out from my project. It certainly feels like the could be some retribution playing a role in this when Maria changed jobs she was told to stop working on a website she designed for the Park Service Leche. How much flooding would come from sea level rise a particular parks because of climate change? We'll have more what happened to that the project after our break <music> <music> from the Center for investigative reporting in P._R.. X. This is reveal. I'm outlets today. We're bringing back a show aired earlier this year. We just heard about national park service officials trying to censor climate change science. They pressured a researcher to get her to okay changes to her report but she refused Elizabeth. Shogren is our science reporter who broke the story about what was happening to a scientists named Maria carefree Elizabeth what happened next well out. After all the attention. The censorship got the park service published Murray as report almost exactly the way she wrote it. I'm Steven and I felt very strongly. Only that these words had to remain and so I think by staying firm on that then they decided that they were sick of fighting the park service posted the report without any fanfare but it didn't in post the data that went with it or an idea. Maria came up with to help parks and ordinary people visualize the threat. It's an interactive website. My report doesn't do it. Justice right you can use wets to describe it but a pitcher pizza thousand leads the website would let park service employees or anyone really see with their own eyes which shorelines marinas monuments are archeological digs could be underwater in twenty fifty or twenty one hundred it. It would be a really powerful tool for helping people see how dangerous climate change really is to places Americans love their national parks. Maria built it with Park Service computer experts. They worked on it for years and did did you see the website when you went to Colorado to talk to Maria well that was the plan. That's not exactly what happened. Here's how it went. Maria takes me to the University of Colorado Boulder. We walk into this swanky building and stop at a map apt to find the conference room where we're supposed to meet her colleagues. I have three degrees geography. I thought about Maria call someone who gives her step by step instructions to the room okay well. I'll be there in a minute okay. She introduces me to her colleagues and starts the meeting with a surprise announcement. Today we're going to demo the sea level rise viewer so I sought permission from the National Park Service to have someone come here and demo it and I was refused. Murray is clearly irked but then all of a sudden her face lights up she turns to her colleague Leeann less tack lands the one who actually crunched the sea level rise data. Do you have the maximum Europe's take you you mean the data. Oh Yeah Yeah that's allow we could pull it off while her Peter we we go upstairs to Liens cubicle and cluster around her computer. This takes a little while to refresh. It's hard to navigate finally a map appears on your screen. It's National Park Land at North Carolina's Outer Banks so this is Kitty Hawk on the East Coast. Let's zoom in right to the tip of Cape Hatteras section of the Paulk Walk. This is kind of what the swipe tool how the swipe tool works in the viewer as Leeann moves the cursor dry land becomes flooded see the imagery without the layer and then see with the layer. The image shifts between between two possible futures on Hatteras. It's the year twenty one hundred in the first future greenhouse gas pollution has kept growing and large areas of Hatteras island are permanently underwater. It's compelling compelling. Isn't it the big change yeah and that's not even the storm surge. Yeah you get the right storm at the right time. I mean we're talking about twenty one hundred in those images but really if you get the right storm at the right time time that section could be gone landscapes back could go back to that one and shows us the second future what the island would look like if we've curtailed our use of coal oil and other fossil fuels the areas are dry with this peak into the future. A national park could make better informed decisions about how or whether to spend millions of taxpayer dollars to move a lighthouse construct a seawall protect the monument rebuild after a storm or let it go and so when a road washes out typically that road is replace but if you have something like this way you can see that you're moving towards a future Utah where that areas can be permanently flooded anyway. Maybe you won't pay to rebuild that road fifty times over. Maybe just choose to let it go and save the money and what's the big message that you take away from seeing this. I think the big message the white a message is that we as an American public have some choices to make as to which future we want want to aim for here. Do we want to carry on his where doing right now and deal with those damages or is it better to Qatar what we're doing and reduce the extent of damage. So Elizabeth from what you're saying it sounds like if we keep going the way we are. WE'RE GONNA lose. Big Chunks of our national parks 'cause well. They'll be under water. That's exactly right. Murray as research pointed me too national parks where evidence of climate change is pretty obvious. I'm based in Washington D._C.. And I went down to the National Mall. It's one of the most popular national parks it was September. Just as Hurricane Florence was approaching and we're on the steps of the Jefferson memorial looking across the tidal basin towards the Washington Monument and the White House Park Service spokesman. Mike Glitter is showing me around. There's a lot here that's already underwater the trail on the west side. The monument is flooded several feet deep ducks and great white egrets swimming where tourists normally would be walking a bike rack is half submerged and the Cherry trees. WHO's pretty pink blossoms draw more than a million people each spring? I I see water up the trunks of lots of cherry trees correct. The trees are under water at this point that exposes them to things like root rot long-term. Mike says the tides are unusually high today but even under normal mall conditions. The mall is constantly contending with high water from the Potomac River. It's striking what we're seeing every day. Normally if you're here at high tide Vieria closest to the title based on it'd be underwater. It's become come such a recurring problem that <hes> several years ago we had to reroute the trail unfortunately can't even see that today because the water so high the trail he's talking about is between the Jefferson memorial in the tidal basin but we I can't see it there are miles of stone and concrete embankments or seawalls to keep the water out of the National Mall but many are crumbling the park service estimates it will cost a lot of money to build them up. We've identified about three hundred and thirty eight a million dollars worth of seawall reconstruction the needs to be done. We walked to some nearby park. Buildings ducks swimming over your parking lot right now and you're building looks like it's in water. It is and you can and see the the access doors have been sandbagged to keep the water out. That's a historic structure that keep it dry. It does for the most part I can take you to areas where sidewalks have buckled where you can literally look through aside walk down into the Potomac River. <hes> I'm remembering Murray as map of what the mall would look like in twenty one hundred if greenhouse gas pollution keeps growing and a hurricane hits. What's the reflecting pool the Smithsonian museums the monuments are all under water which doesn't seem that hard to believe on daylight today but Mike says the park service isn't using Marie as data to plan for ways to protect the mall each time? I mentioned climate change. Mike seems to dodge the subject. What will happen to this park? When has the park service studied? What would happen to the mall? If a big hurricane sent a storm surge up the Potomac a storm surge up the Potomac science things <hes> I can refer you to the folks that could could answer those questions for you. One of the things that I try again and ask if the park service has changed what Rangers can say about climate change will again. I'm not familiar with the causes ages as I said if you WanNa talk about the science and the research I'll refer you to the people talk about them. It starts to sound like a course. I can show you where it's flooding. I can't tell you what so I think we've hit everything. At this point. After I leave Mike I walked past some cherry trees and around the Jefferson memorial with its stately marble columns and meet a young boy with his family. Tell how old are you nine today Nicholas. was you know anything about climate change. I know it was greenhouse. Gases what about greenhouse gases <hes> uh-huh they made from carbon dioxide and where do they come from car exhaust pipes and motorcycle anything that involves feel pretty much. Do you know about the <music> oceans getting higher the cease getting rising up because of climate change. Did you hear about that plus. I just found out now this impressive boys visiting from Florida His Father Eduardo Leo is a computer software entrepreneur his mother her a niche Gus Szymanski a former Ballerina. I tell them about Maria cafes report and the government's interference they say it reminds them of the authoritarian regimes of their childhoods she used for polling born and raised in foreign the Cuban so we come from to Communist countries and I know from my parents how information was distorted and and people just knew what was fed to them not not the real truth. They say Maria Nia story sounds like that shows a little resemblance to what I think is happening in Russia now and in other parts of the world by restricting information by the nine information. We're concern our children. We do country that becomes better now worse then I tell them I'm planning to go to Florida the next day because Murray is research is also bad news for the animals. The national parks are required by law to protect in this case sea turtles they tell me their home in Vero beach backs up to a stretch of shoreline where sea turtles nest and as a matter of fact last year when the Hurricane Irma when it came in in our area it washed away a lot of the sand and a lot of the nests were destroyed so we walk the beach after the hurricane a we see many many many eggshells to the beach loose devastating. We're very sad very sad aw come and so did I. I decided to come here to canaveral national seashore because I wanted to see for myself. How sea-turtles are faring canaveral is a very special special place twenty four miles of undeveloped coast? Most of the land belongs to NASA if the Space Agency hadn't preserved it this whole area probably would be covered with high rise condos like the rest of the coast hurricane team Florence is one day from landfall and stirring up the ocean tides are higher than normal so the beaches narrow in some places waves laugh at the dunes yeah. I figured there'd be lots of surfers out today. The Park Service's Kristen Tinsel is responsible for looking after sea turtles here. I'm the chief of Resource Management Canaveral National Seashore Kristen kneels next to a lump in the sand. I'M GONNA dig into it right now. It's a turtle nest. That's just hatched. We'll show you so the eggs will be about a foot and a half or so down before we get to the first one adult turtles are huge weighing a few hundred pounds each with big flippers and shells three to four feet across the park has special tourists to watch them nest and they fill up immediately. You know the female turtle comes up at night. She finds that location that she wants to find to layer eggs. She uses her back flippers to dig out a AAC Chamber and then she'll deposit about one hundred eggs or so covers it really well and then goes back to the water so kristen looks like a kid tunneling into the sand show after digging deep is her arm will go she. He starts bringing up one sandy eggshell after another. This is a hatched egg. You could see that it's nice and white. She counts seventy. One craft shows seventy one baby turtles hatched from this one nest and scampered across the narrow. uh-huh beach toward the ocean up and down the beach as far as I can see every ten feet or so there's a yellow steak. Those are all sea turtle nece. There's a lot of them yeah right now. We've got <hes> about forty five hundred. How important is this stretch of beach to protecting these endangered animals? It's very important and we between the National Wildlife Refuge the south US I mean that accounts for almost forty percent of the nesting loggerhead and Green Sea Turtles Nest in this park. They're both on the endangered species list but last year nearly fourteen thousand bury their eggs here scientists were thrilled by the large number and then crestfallen when Burma washed so many of them away so there was still about six thousand like still on the beach waiting to hatch that never made it so so all the nests that were left on the beach when the storm came. We're gone right. Erma was an especially intense hurricane. Scientists say storm surges and flooding will get even worse with climate change increasing the likelihood for wiping out nests. I ask the Park Service's concerned about climate change and its impact on turtles. Laura Henning Park spokeswoman has come along with us. She takes this one it as far as the National Park Service were concerned about everything that impacts endangered New Jersey so that's part of our job but what about climate change in particular. I think we're concerned about it. I mean we do what we can. Kristen hired a scientists to study. How climate change is hurting the turtles but she gets squirrelly every time I raise the subject I remind her that when we talked on the phone a few weeks earlier she said the park service's message to the public on climate change and sea level rise is changing? I ask how it's different not really different. <hes> UH Kristen looks to Laura so I asked her. What's the message from Washington about what story you can tell about climate change in how is that different from what it was before? We haven't gotten any a different direction. The park service is still kind of stay in the course as far as what scientists telling us later when I'm with Kristen in her office I press her again before when we were talking on the phone you had said that there was new direction on how to explain climate change and your colleagues said there wasn't any new direction and I'm just trying to understand. Is there a new direction not really a new direction erection. Each administration is different and so there's different focuses and different pushes our big focus right now is on providing more opportunity for people to enjoy the park so and what was the focus in the last administration it was focused on climate change research so I wanted to show you these maps. I opened my laptop. Reveal used public records laws to get Marie his calculations future flooding from sea level rise in storm surge and with the help of reveals data team. We made our own maps. The whole park is surgeon twenty with a with a hurricane. The map shows what it would be like in twenty fifty if people keep using oil and coal the way we do now and then a hurricane hits the entire map is shaded blue screen the beach where the sea turtles hatch the lagoon where they go to swim. It's all underwater. Does looking at those maps. Make you think about what's at stake here. Oh yeah definitely makes us think about what's at stake. I mean we're we definitely know. We're vulnerable here. I ask what park managers can do. There's a lot that we dan do nature will always sort of do what it's going to do and it has a way of fixing itself sometimes but this is a man made situation with greenhouse gas emissions increasing sea level rise and storm surge. Yeah I mean I don't know I mean there's debate on whether it's man made or not manmade or whatever but you know as we get more frequent storms and things like that I mean that is going to continue to affect our park. What do you mean there's debate on? Whether it's manmade climate change I mean a lot of it is natural to I mean we've been storm events here at the park long before we were here so yeah. It seemed to me that Kristin was downplaying the potential damage to turtles from climate a change and people's role in creating it. I was counting on one more interview for the story. A few years ago. The park service had hired a scientists to study the effects of sea level rise on turtles. Her name is Betsy von Holly Alley and when we spoke on the phone she told me Maria cafes data has been crucial to her research. We scheduled an interview but the day before we were going to meet she abruptly cancelled. I tried to figure out what happened. I made a public public records request for emails between her and the Park Service. Remember Mike litters the Park Service spokesman who showed me the flooding National Mall. Don't know about the science and the things I can refer you to the folks that good the good answer those questions for you. One of the emails zygote shows Lyndhurst and another Park Service official pressuring the scientists they tell her it would not be prudent to do an interview. No one from the park service would give me a straight answer. It started to seem like a deliberate strategy. Certainly it's in line with President Trump's intention to downplay the science of climate change in fact. Maria Kathleen told me she was instructed that the park service works for trump and not the American people <music> when we come back. We talked to someone who did work for trump in the White House. He sees this as if we acknowledge. It's a problem then we're going to have to deal with it what we have to do to deal with it. There's an incredible economic costs to it. That's next up on reveal from the Center for Investigative Reporting M._p._r.. Ex <music> from the Center for investigative reporting in P._R.. X. This is reveal. I'm letting the vast majority of climate change scientists ninety seven percent agree humans are causing climate change. Donald Trump on the other hand says he doesn't see it and we've known there have been cases where the very mention of human caused climate change has been taken out of government reports sports. Elizabeth Shogren is revealed science report. She's been tracking these instances. Hey Elizabeth Hi al so you've told us about this. One scientists Maria Cathy who was working on contract for the National Park Service and how her supervisors tried to pressure her her into removing all mention of human beings causing climate change from report she wrote she resisted that pressure and was taken off a project but what's happening now to all the work she did Murray is report was released to the public uncensored and just before the deadline for this story. The park service finally released her website but I found out about it from a source there was no news release and when I googled it I couldn't find it but the good news I guess is that Maria Science finally was published. You gotTA wonder if it would have ever come out though if you hadn't reported the park service was trying to censor it. I wonder too I knew about the research. Murray McCaffrey was doing so when it didn't come out. I knew something was up but I keep thinking there must be a lot other research being censored that we just don't know about we do know about some other examples though a national park in Massachusetts was told to delete every mention of climate change in its planning document sixteen different mentions they we were told it was just too sensitive and it's happening across the Federal Government Columbia University has been compiling a list they have this website called the silencing science tracker so far there are more than two hundred examples of censorship or interference appearance and many scientific projects have lost government funding quite a few have to do with obscuring the human role in climate change. That's reveal science reporter Elizabeth Shogren. Thanks Elizabeth. Thanks how it's not just government agencies downplaying. Playing the role of humans and climate change trump has been pretty vocal on this topic himself. He said this on sixty minutes. I don't think it's a hoax. I think there's probably a difference but I don't know that it's manmade. I will say this. I don't don't WanNa give trillions and trillions of dollars. I don't WANNA lose millions and millions of jobs. I don't want to be put a disadvantage bottom line. It sounds like money is a big concern. So what does that mean for people working on climate change for this administration. George David banks served as a special assistant to president trump on energy and environment. Thanks for joining me now. It's a pleasure so in Elizabeth's reporting. It's not just trump it's questioning humans rolling climate change the human causes has been edited out of government reports potentially damaging our national parks environment our health you know I can't speak for my colleagues in the agencies but it's quite possible that they may have thought that was the that was the policy when it wasn't if you're saying saying that like people are editing things based on their own beliefs that means that the trump administration put somebody in a role to make decisions on scientific questions who are basically acting as political agents so that's one and then two if that's not the case then you're saying that these people were scared that they were going to hear it if they allow this report to go out which you know overall can administration can set a tone that lets people below them understand like we're not really interested in looking into that so so don't come to us with it. You know I can tell you this for for certain that at least from a White House perspective you know we were very clear. My colleagues and I were very clear that there would be no sort of editing of the science. That's and I and I think you saw that the national climate assessment there was absolutely no attempt whatsoever to edit that document so the national climate assessment is the federal report that comes out every four years trump attack the conclusions the last one released at the end of November but he didn't try to have that report altered in any way and that was a White House decision so I think it's important to sort of note that so what is trump's view on climate change so actually think that he's moderated his position okay because it wasn't that long ago when he was calling it a hoax. The president looks at climate policy through the lens of what kind of impact is this going to have on U._S.. Manufacturing on competitiveness so the idea the I guess is it. Please correct me if I'm wrong. The idea is that he looks at the right now instead of looking at the long-term pitcher because if he's just worried about what it's going to look like for employment stats and what is going to look like <hes> about regulation like that's the right now the future though is that parts of the United States will be under water they could be severe droughts all sorts of things I I'm not going to disagree with you on the impacts of climate change particularly as they pertain to you know certain parts of the country including the U._S. Southeast Right <hes> but I will say that the president does look at things through long-term blends as well. They're just it's just a different set of issues. He looks at he looks at national power and the economy that Lens if there's lack lack of water throughout the world we're going to have more wars and more conflicts so if you don't look at climate change in reference to American power than you're Kinda missing half the pitcher well look I <hes> I mean I agree that certainly over the long term a climate impacts going to have a major impact on national security issues whether they're here in the United States are or elsewhere but I do think when it comes to what's tangible and what people can look at it measure right now. It's far easier to see what the impacts are on U._S.. POWER IF WE LOSE OUR MANUFACTURING base than it is to try to determine what are the long term climate impacts with sea level rise etc.. Do you believe that climate change is manmade. Well I accept the science I mean look. There's a consensus <hes> that humans contribute significantly to climate change and for me as a policy person right for a policy person the opposition is you defer to science and you defer to the experts on whatever's going on and then you you look at the evidence and then you try to figure out what the best policy is to address. Whatever problem has been identified? Let me ask you a question. Are you a scientist no. I'm an economist and lawyer. I think my big question here though that all of this kind of goes back to is why does trump diminish the human rolling climate change. It's not just him. It's a number of Republicans who will argue that if we acknowledge it's a problem then we're going to have to deal with it right and by end but unfortunately you know when they think about what we have to deal with. There's an incredible economic cost to it would've trump is wrong what if humans do have role in climate change and we're passing up the last opportunity to save our planet from this very dangerous fate. I would say that if we don't figure you're out a you know a smart way a real effective way to drive global emissions reductions. We're going to get a bad scenario deaf kids yeah I have kids too and I just keep he thinking that like we keep arguing over these points and nothing changes and ultimately the world of my children will inherit the world that your children will inherit will be worse off because of our inability to do anything right now if you would ask the president. What are you gonNA? Tell your grandchildren you know if you're wrong about climate I mean how are you going to explain to them. You know how are you going to justify what you did if he ends up pulling out of the Paris Agreement for example. How are you going to justify that? I think the President says look you know I was focused on making sure that the United States was in a position to meet the challenge represented by China China that China clearly has geopolitical ambitions so therefore as the president. I've got to think about the more immediate threat to the United States and that's what I focused on George. David banks is a former White House. Climate change aged adviser. Thanks for talking to us. Thanks L. Anytime now. With more Democrats in Congress president trump's approach to climate change science could come under scrutiny but Maria calf raise the climate change scientists who was silenced is still worried for the plant climate change is happening so rapidly. You turn have eight years. You can't wait it out until it becomes more politically weekly favourable view to do your work. Maria paid a heavy personal price. When our contract with the National Park Service expired she lost her job and a career with the government that meant a lot to our it appears that aw I could be punished for this going forward for a long time if you want to see the maps of national parks that revealed made with Maria data techs see that's S. E. A. to nine zero three two zero one twenty one twenty three again that C. Two nine zero three two zero one twenty-one twenty-three standard texting rates apply the National Park Service has maps to a future sea level rise at N._P._S.? Dot Gov Ali producer for this week. Show was amy walters. Deborah George was our editor. Thanks to Michael Corey Yen we'll caveat super mar for their data work and Tamara Cohn and achieve Amini who also helped with the show our production managers moines day in a Hosa are sound design team is the dynamic duo J. Breezy Mr Jim Briggs and Fernando my man Yo Arruda that helped this week from Joep Lord and Caitlyn Benz Are C._E._O.'s KRISTA SCHARF Berg Burke met Thompson is our editor in Chief Executive Producers Kevin Sullivan our theme music is by Colorado like support for reveals provided by the reason Dave Logan Foundation the John D and Catherine T. Macarthur Foundation the Jonathan Logan Family Foundation the Ford Foundation Asian the hazing Simon's foundation and the Ethics and excellence in Journalism Foundation reveal is a CO production of the Center for investigative reporting in P. R. X.. I'm outlets and remember there is always more to the story.

Park Service Maria Maria National Parks National Park Service hurricane president Murray McCaffrey President Trump National Park National Mall Florida Washington US Hershey Park Rangers university of Colorado reporter White House
Willem Dafoe's take on van Gogh nabs an Oscar nod

The Frame

28:18 min | 2 years ago

Willem Dafoe's take on van Gogh nabs an Oscar nod

"From the Mon broadcast center. Ed, K P C. See this is the frame, I'm John horn on today's show the TV networks facing declining ratings try to drum up interest in their new shows, then Willem Dafoe is nominated for an Oscar for his portrayal. The Dutch painter Vincent Van Gogh in the film at attorneys gate depose studied, how Van Gogh thought about his art and even learned how to paint for the role. Then go used to talk about great painting is not painting things as they are. But as you see them, which is interesting and with a state of the union coming up tonight, actor Bill Pullman tells us how he played the president all that after this break. KPCC podcasts are supported by wonder brothers pictures, presenting the soulful authentic a star is born. Starring Bradley Cooper, lady Gaga and Sam Elliott in their kademi award nominated performances for consideration in all categories. And by Marvel's duty owes Black Panther now nominated for seven Academy Awards including costume and production. Design score original song all the stars performed by Kendrick Lamar and Ciza and best motion picture walk into the fray mom, John horn, a couple of times every year scores of TV reporters and critics gather for a couple of weeks and surprise talk television. When the journalists are not chatting amongst themselves. They're listening to presentations from the major broadcast and cable networks and the top streaming services. And almost all the programmers are preaching versions of the same sermon. We've got some really great shows coming up, but for all of the enthusiasm from CBS, NBC ABC and FOX some hard truths remain network. Ratings are tumbling as viewers look to streaming services. Like Netflix and Hulu or cable channels such as H B O N Showtime. Daniel Feinberg is a TV. Critic at the Hollywood reporter when I got Daniel on the phone between sessions today, I started by asking him how the networks and cable channels are trying to position themselves there. Lot of new executive trying to stake their own position. So today were in the process of having ABC's day, and we had Kerry Burke who just had her first press conference. She talked a lot about ABC's brand about attempting to program perhaps a little bit more towards women about the importance of a lot of legacy ABC programming. So I think that's really all that anyone is trying to do. These days is make sure that whatever their corner of the pie or corner of the map or corner of the globe. Is that it's defined and welcoming I guess one of the things that. Of the things that I'm most interested about Disney ABC is they're integrating a lot of FOX executives into the programming. Mix. Now is there any suggestion of how the networks emphasis is going to change? Now that so many people who were at FOX are now part of the Disney family. I don't think we know you. I don't know. Yeah. I think we're we're now up to our third consecutive tour of somewhere between business as usual and clearly not business as usual but businesses not yet defined. I don't know if even come summer, we're going to know exactly what the terrain is from the ABC FOX mix up. John Landgraf ahead of FX, basically said that Netflix numbers about its audience sizes are well, I guess he would say that. If you believe their numbers, you believe that was a really thrilling Super Bowl what a John Landgraf say. And why is it important what he's saying about Netflixing viewership? It really is important that we don't know what any of Netflixing numbers are. And so when Netflix announces show extra show, why is a huge hit. And it was watched by this many people the terms are completely undefined. And the context is absent. And so his primary point that he made I think as best I could describe it is that if Netflix only. Says here are hits. But Netflix has five hundred shows and there are four hundred ninety five shows that they give no data on whatsoever. It's such a skewed picture that. We only know what their home runs are. We don't know what their singles doubles or their strikeouts. Are. And that was I think what John Landgraf point was is we're not playing by the same rules. But when people report on Netflix triumphs as if it's the same game. It makes everybody else look strange or like their numbers are low because there's just no context for what any of the Netflix numbers mean. And and I agree with that. I think so much of the as are about the networks and cable channels and some streaming services announcing what their new programs are. But there's also been a lot of news about what shows aren't immediately coming back. FX says that it has production problems on Lanta, and it won't be back for a while. And it sound like NBC, given the not very big audience. And the production problems on his live musical of rant are stepping back from their plan version of hair that right are no longer going for hair. They are going with looking in the direction of more family friendly musicals. And I think that anyone who watched rent and saw the different ways in which even that musical had to in twenty nineteen be censored in certain strange and not completely satisfying ways lyric changed cutting away from actors doing certain things etcetera. I think a lot of us watch that and went wait a second. How on earth is NBC going to do hair? And I think some be that'd be the exact same question. And they went, oh, we really probably can't do this in a way that isn't going to upset true fans of the show, and that's pretty reasonable. The networks can obviously look at what people like HBO or Netflix, and Hulu are doing and say, I understand the appeal of some of those shows how much do you feel the networks are sticking to their own knitting, and how hard they tried to adapt and become more relevant are they caught an unusual place where they don't want to illuminate their core audience by becoming something that they never have been and maybe should not become drama categories at award shows have been completely dominated by cable and in recent years streaming, and I think that a lot of the past couple years, the development cycle has been network saying, okay? Is this a game that we have any interest in playing anymore or do? We simply not care is what we're doing a completely different thing if they decide okay, we're not going for quality. We're not going for awards. We're not trying to do what FX HBO and Netflix. Do. We're trying to be popular and populist and middle of the road. Then under those circumstances, you would expect in a perfect. World there would be more large audience breakout hits. And I think they're trying to go for that. They simply haven't achieved that fully people who hadn't yet fallen asleep might have seen a commercial in the Super Bowl for Jordan peels produced version of the twilight zone and that is the CBS production. But it is not going to be on the network, right? It's going to be on the CBS streaming site. Are we starting to see more content like that that may be produced by major network, but does not going to be on its broadcast channel? I think we're starting to see it. But I think we're starting to see I think that CBS CBS all access, obviously, there's a push that they wanna make for the online home. And so that's why the Star Trek show is there and all of its associated spin offs associated properties. That's why the good fight, which if it were actually on CBS would be the best drama on network television. You have to give people hooks to subscribe to your service other. 'cause no one's gonna do it. Just for. One show. Daniel Feinberg is a TV critic for the Hollywood reporter. He is also the president of the television critics association Daniel, thank so much for coming back on the show back to your panels. My pleasure anytime. Coming up. We revisit my conversation with actor Willem Dafoe. He scored an Oscar nomination for plane Vinson Vanco. KPCC podcasts are supported by one. Or brothers pictures, presenting the sole fli authentic a star is born. Starring Bradley Cooper, lady Gaga and Sam Elliott in their Academy Award nominated performances now nominated for eight Academy Awards, including best picture invested Apted screenplays, Kenneth Durant. The Los Angeles Times calls it passionate, emotional and. Fearless. An af I calls the film of stellar achievement in its own universe for consideration in all categories. KPCC podcasts are supported by marvel studios, presenting Black Panther the LA times raves. Black Panther is the cinematic event of the year Vanity Fair calls it, a political and social triumph USA today. A claims Black Panther is arousing cultural movement and now nominated for seven Academy Awards including costume and production. Design score original song all the stars performed by country. Lamar Ciza and best motion picture. Welcome back to the frame. I'm your host John horn, actor Willem Dafoe has a curious ability to go from big franchise films such as aquaman to smaller. Indie films like the Florida project and last year. He started the movie at attorneys gate default plays Vincent Van Gogh toward the end of his life. The movie directed and co written by the artist and filmmaker Julian Schnabel is less interested in Van Gogh's mental health instead at attorneys. Gate is focused on painting. How the Dutch artists all light and color and texture and about Van Gogh's friendship with a French painter Paul Gauguin, who's played by Oscar Isaac in this scene from Ed attorneys gate Van Gogh is painting a portrait of the physician who treated him toward the end of his life. Dr Paul gush shea. Why do you pay? Paints? As a fact to stop thinking. The of meditation. When I paint, I stopped thinking about what? Stop thinking. The feel. I'm part of everything outside inside the. When he says he he likes to paint because he stops thinking that's not sane thinkings bad. But a lot of his thinking is preoccupied with his failures with this social problems with his fear of his mental health. But when he's painting. He's connected to something. He's in movement. He finds what's attornal, and what's you know, temporal. And that is something that I relate to as a performer when you're doing a gesture, and you're not thinking what the gesture means or whether you're doing well, you're really inhabiting. The gesture that's when you're alive, you disappear into something greater than yourself so much modern understanding Van Gogh is kind of drawn along capitalistic lines. He didn't sell a painting when he was alive. He wasn't considered as excess because he didn't sell anything. And there's a great moment in the film where Van Gogh was talking to a. Priest played by Mads Mikkelsen, and he says God may be a painter for people who aren't born yet, which is the beautiful line. But it's also about the artist judging himself Van Gogh knows he's a good painter. I mean Gauguin tells them the same he knows he's good. He has his doubts. But he knows he has some e feels this vision that he wants to share and prolific. He's painting so much. He's connected. And that's not our invention. I mean, that's he painted a painting day toward the end of his life pretty much and also his letters show. How connected he was. So even if he wasn't getting money, even if he wasn't being recognized was there a satisfaction. As an artist that he was getting that may be an actor can understand. Do you start thinking about how we judge our own work as artists today against false metrics like box office and awards while you don't because you know, you know, that show. Shift in a similar way. We know even in my lifetime. There are movies that were total duds when they came out that have stood the test of time and had I've become important and appreciated later and the the opposite is true as well things that were huge success fade. You know, because it's always a convergence of many things that conspired to put a value on on something as subjective as an entertainment or a piece of art. So is there a early sunflowers in your rear, the painting that nobody wanted to buy and you look why didn't people like that? It was really good work. I mean seriously performance that people like maybe they didn't pay attention to like that was one of my better paintings. But I don't have those kinds of judgments, but I do know listen for the experience there's movies that I enjoy that. I feel like they didn't get there. Dana. Record or they weren't they weren't appreciated and there's other movies where I think men and people love them. So. Yeah. So it's not like I don't have opinions. I do and it's not like I don't have favorites. But I don't I don't lay them them. Because I don't learn anything from those kind of judgment because I'm always trying to think about what I'm doing. And yes yourself critical but not self critical in intimidating the reception yourself critical in what is happening. How present you are how engaged you are whether you're distracted whether you're being corrupted. You know, I'm forever mindful of corruption, you know, I've seen it many times some actors get better some actors get worse, and they get worse because of certain corruptions were talking with Willem Dafoe about. About his Van Gogh movie at attorneys gate actors talk about how maybe putting on a pair of shoes or some piece of word robe or a prop helps them understand a character in this story. Did you start seeing the world differently? Do you start seeing it as a painter which isn't reliant on a prop or a piece of costume? Yes. It's it's related to an activity that you learn, you know, and I learned how to paint and Julian was very good and generous teacher he taught me how to see differently. And of course, I was eager to make that leap to see new way. And it had a lot to do with white. And also had a lot to do with making marks and thinking of color talking to each other colored defined in relationship to each other. But the marks were very important because you really see when you're painting a series of marks. They start talking to each other. And then they create something that you never could've supposed Van Gogh used to talk about great painting is not painting things as they are. But as you see them, which I thought is interesting when you are learning how to pain are you learning how to paint as Willem Dafoe who is then going to paint as Vincent and go. I'm not making those distinctions. I mean, that's a perfectly good question. But I'm not that's that's getting that's going down a different road. I'm just trying to -ccomplish the task and the task is yes for Sam getting familiar with the materials, I'm learning how to show hold brush. I'm learning how where to organize my paints, but above all how to look at things. I mean, I remember one day Julian we were out and he wanted me to paint a sign. Tree. And I try to paint Cyprus tree. And he was like, whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. What look you see that dark spot. You see that yellow? He started pointing these things out to me. And I started see them. He's it. We'll do that something about you you rush. The get not the reality of it. But the almost like the signifier, you know, we're so trained to have to reproduce things or have things function. If we see a tree we want a tree, but really what he was encouraging mid to do is see everything that that tree is it comes together in the form of a tree. But it's really. Shapes colors in light. And that's what you're dealing with. And when you start to think like that you start to look at everything differently. And of course, I'm not sustaining that all the time. But in the context of our scenarios and being Vincent Van Gogh in making this movie, you're encouraging that kind of thinking, and of course, the you're able to read his letters which are quite sincere and quite clear, and quite inspirational and with the physical practice of painting. Then you have a key into what he's talking about. And before you know, it you're talking and thinking in a way that you've never thought before. So who is that? That's Vincent Van Gogh. That's my Vincent Van Gogh one of the things that this film seems very intentional about as ends is not giving the audience, easy answers. This is going to be a mystery. And it does feel that the. The point of view of this movie. Is that Van Gogh was really alive and wanted to continue to be alive and wanted to continue to paint. Yes. I think that's true. Whether that's fact who knows, you know, certain events of his life are debatable history does lie. It depends who's writing right? We know that but toward the end of his life. It's generally considered a suicide, but there's evidence that maybe he wasn't. And there are many curious things, including the fact that he started to be recognized. He wrote a very upbeat letter to his brother the day that he was shot or shot himself, depending on your point of view. All that's in the mix. But in a funny way, that's not what the movie's about because the guide died. That's what's essential. And it really doesn't matter in a funny way. At least to me I can. Only speak for myself. I guess doesn't matter so much how he died this movie deals more with his painting and his approach to life and work. Willem pissy. Befo has an Academy Award nomination for best actor for at attorneys gate. It's available now on most streaming services. Coming up, Bill Pullman isn't the president. But he's played one on TV and in the movies. So how did he pull off the gravitas of a state of the union speech? When an earthquake hits you need to drop cover and hold on. Definitely. There will be the perception that the round is literally waving in front of you. But what do you do after the shaking stones? And the power is out roads are blocked. I'm Jacob Mola's host of KPCC's new podcast the make one your survival guide. I got plenty of answers for listen. An apple podcasts. He PCC podcasts are supported by. Fox searchlight pictures, presenting the favorite now nominated for ten Academy Awards, including best director your goes length. The most best actress Livia Coleman best supporting actress, Emma stone and Rachel vice best original screenplay best costume design best, film editing. Best production design, best cinematography and best picture of the year for your consideration. Welcome back to the frame. I'm John horn. Are you a fan of podcast? I suspect you might be. Well, this show is also a podcast. That's right. If you can't catch our live broadcast. You can always listen to the frame by subscribing via apple podcasts, Stitcher or Spotify. And that way, you won't miss a single episode like yesterday's show, which featured an interview with singer David Crosby about the new documentary the recounts his troubled life and storied career. And now Donald Trump gives his second state of the union address tonight at no other time are US presidents. So clearly asked to essentially perform the task of president in front of an audience, television networks and radio stations across the country will carry the state of the union live, including KPCC and the pundits will no doubt scrutinized Trump's performance. We don't know how Trump is preparing today. So last year, we asked an actor who's played the president to tell us how he. He got in the mood to play the order in chief Bill Pullman has actually performed the role of president a couple of times once in the short lived, TV comedy, sixteen hundred Penn is co created by former Obama speechwriter pods, save America's John Lovett and more dramatically in the scifi independence day movies. Mr Speaker, president of the United States. I, of course, didn't see myself as presidential first thing. I said it's a comedy. The no is not a comedy science fiction by the science fiction can be funny sometimes so I just didn't really the gravitas of president. We have to. We have to. Ask not what your country can do for you ask what you can do for your country. It didn't take a lot of gravitas. Eventually. We all learned. But then I got nervous because then I thought this is kind of like playing hamlet every actor in the theatre at some point advocate ability of doing him at what is your ham is the you're going to do the president. What is your president? This was in the back of days of CDs. But the hundred great speeches on CD in this multi CD collection. And it was really great for me to listen, you know, I didn't really need to see other actors playing it movies or anything. But to listen to good speeches. You know, was really clarifying thing in most of them are the important speeches are really not that well delivered, you know, things like Mario Cuomo 's speech them credit convention of, you know, city on a hill. A shining city is perhaps all the presidencies from the portico of the White House in the verandah his ranch where everyone seems to be doing. Well. But there's another city. There's another part of the shining city the pod where some people can't pay their mortgages and most young people can't afford one west. You can't afford the education they need and middleclass. Parents watch the dreams they hold for their children of Applegate that in Robert Kennedy's speech, which was impromptu, the when he had been informed that Martin Luther King had just been shot. And it was two minutes. I think from when he had heard that in when they he got in front of the microphone. Signs, please you could feel it in the energy. When you hear him announce the crowd that Martin Luther King is just be killed. You hear the cargo? The king was shot and was killed tonight. Martin Luther King. Dedicated his life. To love and to Justice between fellow human beings. He died in the coal is of that effort for him to be able to articulate. You know, what he did? Which was basically, I know how people felt about him, and those that felt very strongly about him feel like they've lost a brother, and he he said, I can just all's I know is that I have lost a brother, you know. And then you really know you're in the present moment, and he's looking for words, he's not reading text that he's or rating, you know, that was a good one to listen to first science fiction movie. Aircraft from you will join others from around the world, and you will be launching the largest Ariel battle in the history of mankind. It was great to not have to. You know, insist that I'm the president have everybody just already deferential. I didn't wanna be a guy who's making everybody in the room. Listen to him. I wanted them all to be listening to me the day when the world declared in one voice, we will not go quietly into the night. We will not without a fight. We're going to buy. Today. We celebrate. Opinions. Thank you Bill. Pullman for your insights into plane the president. And what does Stephen Colbert have to say about tonight's state of the union? Well, here's his preview now when it comes to state of the union, just like prom. There's an official theme. This year's theme is choosing greatness. Yes, we get a choice. The other options are selecting mediocrity settling for racist or fish. We'll take the fish, please. And that is our show today. Remember to follow us on Twitter and Facebook, you'll find us at the frame. I'm John horn. Thanks for joining us. We're back here tomorrow. Podcasting is supported by FOX searchlight presenting the favorite now nominated for ten Academy Awards, including director, your goes lent. The most actress alluvia Coleman supporting actresses, Emma stone. Rachel vice original screenplay and best picture of the year. Now playing.

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Hedwigs Lost Van Gogh

Revisionist History

45:27 min | 11 months ago

Hedwigs Lost Van Gogh

"Pushkin. Vicious history is presented by Lexus wherever you may go is Alexis for every road. As the world slowly begins to reopen nexus. Once again looks to people for Inspiration asking a simple question it's been on everyone's mind. Of, all the places you're looking forward to. Where will you go I? Will Be. Familiar. Streets. Perhaps unknown roads wherever you go whenever you're ready nexus will welcome you back with exceptional offers on exceptional vehicles. Find a lexus for every Rhode. HAVEN'T ACCESS DOT COM. Experience. Amazing. At. Your. Lexus. Dealer. In March of eighteen, eighty, six vincent then go move from Antwerp to Paris to live with his brother Theo in mart. You very soon became befriended with some of the other artists living there who would become very famous within the next deacades like, for example, Paul SENAC, only to lose low take immune there now and some others and he learned a lot from them. Stefan. Called Half German art expert. And that led to his willingness. To make experiments in becoming an artist when he painted and rather dark brownish. Grayish. During, his time before in the Netherlands he was willing to try out what to do with color how to form things with color invent Gogh's effort to master oil painting. He painted still lifes mostly flowers he couldn't afford models in a space of a few years he produced dozens and dozens of paintings. The Paris period means that from God had decided to become an artist, he no longer wanted to try other professions like he did before like being a preacher or teacher or helping people he now made the decision. I want to be a paint and he knew that Peres is the place to be. My name is Malcolm. Grab. Well you're listening to revisionist history my podcast about things overlooked and misunderstood. This episode is a continuation of investigation into the hoarding habits of Art Museums. It's about one of dozens of still lifes. Van. Gogh painted in his Paris period. A small canvas seventeen inches by fourteen inches vase with carnations. That little painting, turns out. Has a strange and troubled history? Van Gogh painted vase with carnations right after his arrival in Paris at some point. Death for years later, it was acquired by a wealthy German. Couple had fish woman and her husband Abed women were one of the most important art collector couples in Frankfurt in western Germany. They made their money out of business. They very early decided to invest money in works of art which are not commonly regarded as very important works. So they were very daring collectors and that shows that it was not only investment. It was also the love of art which led them to buying works, for example, by a fungal but also by several impressionist painters had with omen sold with carnations on consignment to an art dealer who took it back to New York just before the Second World War. That dealer intern SOLITU- to William, gets one of the most powerful producers in Hollywood. Gets his wife Edith daughter of the legendary Louis B. Mayer had one of the greatest private collections of impressionist art in the world. My grandmother were called the hostess of Hollywood and she. Spent her entire life hosting lavish parties people go like. Livy A and Timothy. Capote. Yul Brenner gets his granddaughter Victoria Bleeding I had dinner with more Bolivia when I was. You. Know. Interesting. Amongst offense and Latour that they got and demand, and this is this is this is our at finger balls and the whole nine yards. And then they would have movies in the living room and in the living room. Parents you've seen the pictures of it, but this is where the Monet. Blue. Picasso the other Picasso was she had Harlequin with calls. And All these things, Rob Law, and all this is not the in the living room houses and everything and that that. Painting. was come up on the screen with come down and then we watched movies. Founded. The prices are disappear into the ceiling and a movie screen descend in its place. If that is the greatest metaphor for Hollywood, I don't know what is. In nineteen fifty-six Kirk Douglas started a movie about Tango Culture Lust for life. Few people know the real story of this intense strong men. Now his tumultuous career is revealed for the first time with. Sunday. With all. If you look at the corner of the movie poster for for life there it is fozzard carnations. But by then gets sold it. He didn't hang onto his van Gogh the way he did his other treasures. It wasn't for him the painting pass to the heirs to the K. Mart Fortune Katherine. Who Am I gonNA things was once married to a Swedish baron. She convinced him to leave London and come live with her in her native. Detroit. Perhaps. Unsurprisingly, the Swedish barons offer for Miss Kresge did not survive the move to Michigan. When Kresge died in nineteen ninety, she will vase with carnations to the Detroit Institute of Art. She gave it without restriction meaning the Dia as it's known could do what they wanted. Sell it traded didn't have to make it part of their permanent collection. Kresge clearly didn't care anymore for the painting and it. And neither did the dia they put in a basement for twenty years. Vincent Van Gogh painted many remarkable canvases. This is now one of them. You also painted larger flower still lives in Perez but this one thus. kind of canvas which I think was not meant for sale or as a present for acquaintances or girlfriends or has models or so it was just for trying out things are experts like damn with faint praise vows with carnations gets a lot of faint praise. It's very nice. It's very profound. It's not a very well. Spectacular. Composition or color combination. It's just kind of let me try out what happens if I this if I do this and so it's nice but not really an important work. The current head of the Detroit Institute of Art Salvador's Solar Pons says the problem is advised with carnations just doesn't look like a van. Gogh. When you say it doesn't look like Van Gogh what me say look like sunflowers. I mean he's not a typical. Like you would like the tough portrait. Or. the works that he did when he was in the south of France, the most famous works. that. The general public knows Van Gogh did then there's the fact that the painting had a stamp on the back a sign that it was painted on a fancy bit of stretch canvas. Then go in his Paris. Here's was broke. What was he doing with a fancy canvas? It took years to resolve that particular discrepancy. And in the meantime, lots of people began to think vase with carnations was a fake later, we discovered that that canvas with. The Stop on the back was not actually part of the work was added later. So you had the original campus, then you have. Lining cameras glued to the regional canvas and then you had these third cameras we stencil stamp of EVAC. So once we remove that we understood that was not part of the original work. So here we have then go. The does not look like a van Gogh. That was never intended to be sold or shown or even given away that a German couple bought somewhere around the turn of the century and then sold that turned up in the home of Hollywood mogul and served as a prop in a Kirk Douglas movie poster then finally landed in Detroit with a K. Mart heiress who threw it in as an afterthought when she made her request to the DIA. Whereupon, the painting languished in a cellar for a quarter century because of a dubious bit of. Glued to the back. What's your personal feeling about this painting? Do you like it. Are you drawn? I, like it because I have a personal story connected to it you know when I came to the museum, the maintain wasn't a storage. As an attributed painting by Van Gogh with basically no value. I was able to bring an up to the galleries and put it together with other four van Goghs that the has. Awarded I it looks like by a Sunday painter. US consider by by forger. Would have no value no monetary value. But the minute we consider it as by handle, it has a value of several million dollars. However, the has not changed. The painting continues to be what it is. What has change? Is the perception that we have on the painting? And that is a really interesting concept to think about. So I liked the painting a law for that. Yeah. But if someone said to you when you retire, it's director you can take one of the DA's Van Goghs with you which one would you take not this. So, why should we care about vase with carnations? We shouldn't. It's not the painting that matters. The painting is just a macguffin. CABOT. In case, you don't know what I mean by macguffin. Let's consult the Dick. Cabinet show nineteen, seventy two. Candidates guest is the legendary film director Alfred Hitchcock the great proponent of McGovern's. Explain what a macguffin I`Ma. Goffin you see in most films about spy. Is the thing that the spies are often. In the days of Roger. Will be the plans of the Fort on the Khyber. Pass. I would be the plans of an airplane engine. And the plans of an atom bomb and like it's always called the thing that the characters on the screen worry about the audience don't care. The macguffin is an object used to propel the plot to motivate the characters, but which has no intrinsic value to anyone else. Vase with carnations is a macguffin. It's described in a scene in English train going to scoff. One man says to the other opposite implicit. What's that package about your head there now? Elements? Oh, that's a macguffin. It's what is a macguffin? Is Operatives for. Trapping lions in the Scottish highlands. Mansi Berar new lands in the Scottish highlands each other than that's no macguffin. Thank you for clearing that up? I. Repeat. It's not the painting that matters. That has always been a mistake. The way people have thought about vase with carnations. No more mcmuffins. After the break, let's start the story again. What's the number one sign of a bad home security system? Home Security System so complicated you never use it, this is exactly the type of security system. SIMPLISAFE has spent a decade fighting against. They believe that simple is safer and that's exactly why simply safe is the home security for right now when feeling safe at home is never been more important. Simply safe was designed to be easy to use while protecting your home twenty four seven order online with the click of a button open the box placed the sensors, plug it in, and your home is protected around the clock note technician or sales person has to come and disrupt your house. You don't even need to pay any outrageous monthly fees or sign a two year contract. Simply, safe was named best overall home security of twenty twenty by US News and World Report and you're twenty, four, seven professional monitoring and emergency dispatch starts at fifty cents a day. Ahead to SIMPLISAFE DOT com slash. Glad. Well, I get free shipping and a sixty day money back. Guarantee that's simplisafe dot com slash. Glad well to sure they know that our show said you. I have a confession to make I'm obsessed with running. Most days I finish work and go for run in the evening where do hills in my backyard or head out to the track I think of my running time as my moment of reflection. And over the past two years, I've been running gear made by tracks. New England based brand make some of the most functional and beautiful products on the market even before they decided to advertise with us a Pushkin Attract Smith, guy turned on my friends onto. Track Smith believes the best running apparel starts with the absolute finest materials designed the specific needs of runners. It's the only gear our. Their summer collection just launched filled with more products. I loved the perfectly balanced performance style fast enough for racing picketed enough walk into my local coffee shop without feeling sub-conscious. Favorite is the tracks Smith amador t made out of the most insanely soft cotton. You'll ever find which I wearing. As I speak. LEARN MORE ATTRACT SMITH DOT com slash revisionist history and use code. Glad. Well, checkout for fifteen dollars off your first order of seventy five dollars or more. Let's just talk about your family great grandmother is Hedwig Allman. Yes that's correct. Yes. She came from a family who had for a very long time lived in Frankfurt. Many relatives who have very embedded history in the city I'm talking with Sophie Ellen. She lives in Melbourne her great grandmother was Hedwig Omen the first known owner of Oz with carnations. HEDWIG was born in Eighteen, seventy, two into a wealthy family in Germany married Albert Almond live with him in a grand residence cult Avila Girl Lock in Frankfurt and together built an extraordinary collection. So she collected with a great passion medieval sculpture that was a huge passion of hers. She collected porcelain, she collected Silva. And She I believe she had different rooms for each of these. Passions in. HEDWIG and Hubbard had two sons and many grandchildren. one of whom was named Claude. So if his father. He remember HEDWIG. He was so attached to Henryk he He was. I. Think the favorite and she was his favourite. He always spoke of a really fondly and I think he felt that that was probably the person he loved the most. Did he talk about what she was like? Yes a little bit. Yeah. I mean for Monica, can remember as a young boy, very warm and loving and quite gentle. Incredibly interested in the arts but the life of clouds grandparents took a sudden turn because the almonds were Jewish. Frankfurt was already starting to change in by nine, hundred, thirty, three and I'm not sure exactly what date but I know that going to the opera became an issue if you had Jewish heritage. You couldn't there was a stage where you couldn't go to the upper and that was something that hedvig. Constantly she lived around the corner from the upper house. Her lifestyle started change my grandparents. They left I. And HEDVIG didn't come to Milan to write. Within six months the last six months they were there. She's going to. Year. Thirty eight thirty nine, what year? Do you know I? Think it was right at the end of nine hundred thirty eight the end of nineteen thirty eight was, of course, Kristallnacht the night of broken glass when at Hitler's direction mobs destroyed hundreds of synagogues and yeshivas across Germany. It was impossible to be a German Jew after Kristallnacht and imagined that you were safe. hedvig sold off as much of her art collection as she could she fled to Milan to join her son's then the intentions of Mussalini towards Jews became clear and the whole family fled again. This time to Australia. So they they got in time yes they did and they go via the Panama Canal remember my father I don't know how on Earth could have remembered that because he was just he was under two years of age but I think it was about a six week trip and the two brothers with their families. They both had two children each and head as the as the matriarch they brought her all up. So there were there were nine of them. They made it to Melbourne change their last names, allman became Allen and May of nineteen, forty, five, four days before the end of the war hedrick died. My father, my uncle probably spent most of their lives just assimilating and. Embracing the life they had and I think bearing the sadness as much as they could. Because there's definitely. A sadness gratitude and this sadness go they kind of almost they. They go along together and alive and it's come through to my generation to in a way. Yeah. Then, late in his life Claude Allen decided to revisit the family's past. To find the families are collection that had been lost in the desperate escape Germany. What do you think motivated him but was his how would he expressed his desire to pursue these claims without sending dramatic? It's just I know that my father all throughout his life. To some degree maybe within his psyche or he struggled with the fact that the family had had to leave. Europe, it was like a baseline in his life. that. Has Been this massive disruption and And it just carried this sense of loss. It started to start the loss of HEDVIG. That would be the first loss. He could understand because it was a loved grandmother, the one who gave him who doted on him from the stories and I, thought he was the basin as. And Closer to his he was to his own mother. So. Claude Allen sat down and went through his grandmother's papers trying to reconstruct what art works she and her family had owned in the years before the war and where they had ended up. Some of the works had vanished. Others were plain sight. You can find if you for yourself if you spend a few hours poking around the Internet. There's a Paul Gauguin soul by Hedwig sister-in-law in one, thousand, nine, thirty, eight as she to fled Frankfurt. That painting ended up at the Toledo Museum of art in Ohio. Family had sold the Gauguin along with a lovely van. Gogh called the diggers. The diggers ended up in the hands of a department store heir who then gave it to the Detroit Institute of art in the late nineteen sixties. There's a virgin and child by Lucas Chronic the elder from the sixteenth century. Now in the University of Arizona Museum of art then there were the four beautiful wall panels in Hedwig dining room by the prominent German landscape painter Hans Thoma. Spring Summer Winter Fall. Claude Allen couldn't find out where any of those gone. And finally, there was the small modest still life acquired by Hedwig, and her husband back in the heyday of they're collecting. Vase with carnations. Vincent. Van Gogh. Eighteen, eighty six. I wasn't alive during heavy lifetime. I wasn't even born on both for another quarter of a century even more, but she was very much. A part of our lives we should talk about constantly and very fondly, and you know her life was all around us in some way. As Claude Allen Begin his investigation into headwinds lost our collections. Other Holocaust survivors families started to do the same thing. There were conferences, laws passed Europe in particular had a growing movement to reconsider the status of art sold last or confiscated during the war, and it seemed that the world was changing and arrested might be possible. My father was very excited and hopeful deeply hopeful about it. Whilst I had every different reaction I was a young adult at the time. I was almost sort of like I. Let's don't get your hopes up. Don't go there. It's it's it's just going to bring up. I. Think was because I thought it was going to bring up. All these. Feelings that. I knew it down there but I didn't know what they were and it's it's very, it's actually. For someone WHO's third generation is still very confronting and that's actually. Surprises may still continues to surprise me. I never met Hedvig why do I feel like this but I do it is very much a part of me. And it's almost inexplicable. I'm sort of trying to interrogated a little bit more now. Because, I, have to face some of these things. Some of these situations with the paintings. And what to do with the legacy? I think it's a really interesting important point because. was when your father precedes these claims, it's not just about the art it's about. Healing Oh yeah. Absolutely. It's not necessarily about material possessions and material possessions. kind of like the Markelle it's all everything orients itself around, but it's not actually what this is really all about the art is a symbol. I think it's important to understand what Claude Allen was up against in his attempt to locate his grandmother's last art collection. Salami a digression about a man named Charles Venable. Some years ago venable was named director of the Speed Art Museum in Louisville Kentucky. It was his first director's job and he decided to begin by taking a close look at the museum's collection as started with our works on paper collection where we were just GonNa get an ex. You know get some expertise in and we were look at every single work on paper. To help him venable brought in a former curator from the Cleveland Museum of Art, which has one of the country's best collections of works on paper. By the time we went through everything she said you have about fifty exceptional pieces out of how many wouldn't a huge collection but we probably had Couple thousand. Os Is. Then, she sit in here's another group that are nice. But in the end, it was like you should just get rid of all of these keep fifty good ones the pluses the rest venables sold at auction. If I'd ask you before that process began in Louisville what percentage plus what would you have said some paper, not my curatorial area but nevertheless, I would have said you know. You have to have half of them. I suppose be exceptional works of art or why would you have taken? Venable next became the director of the Indianapolis Museum of art or as it is now known Newfield. When he arrived the museum had fifty, five thousand objects. It was adding close to a thousand new objects a year and was on the verge of building a multi million dollar storage facility to house its ever expanding collection. And Venables main thought was what if Indianapolis was like Louisville and much of the stuff they were storing at such great expense wasn't worth keeping. So he and his curator's at new fields began combing through every one of the objects in the museum's collection. They assigned each artwork a grade. A. Was for something that any museum in the world would want. These are things that made sense for Indianapolis to have his collection seize were dis didn't belong at all. The good stuff and bad stuff were easy to identify but it took years to figure out the BS and CS. The curator's did tons of research debate it and kept going piece by piece. Art Collection is now about. Forty, four, thousand works of art. down from fifty, five, fifty, five, thousand. But Venables still not finished right now, our collection based on six years of ranking is about thirty, three percent as. So, the right there those are going nowhere. So there's you know thousands of works of art, and then clearly we would want a good number of bees of works that we couldn't replace or they're. They're considered totally worthy to be in the gallery for one reason or not. But if you take just the seas and the rest of our dis, there's probably I'm guessing will be. Twenty five, thirty, thousand works earn. They have thousands more ago to be auctioned off we're giving away. We had huge hole big holdings in contemporary glass, but we don't need four hundred pieces in storage. So we gave one hundred pieces of contemporary glass to the Glick Center for Glass at Ball State University in Muncie Indiana. So students could learn technique from. Now if you listen to the previous episode, you know that no one does this in the museum world. No one tries to get smaller. No one gives things away like that. Certainly, not on the scale that venable is doing in Indiana. Because, most art museums are like Smog Dragon, they're hoarders. Deepen their layers fiercely guarding their treasures. Here's an actual headline from Art News. One of the major publications of the art world quote is Charles Venable Democratizing, a great art museum in Indianapolis or destroying it. Are you kind of marine the Marie Condo. Is your is your apartment like minimalist? You get rid of old clothes no longer wear them does this carry over to your privately owned? Why not? Particularly I mean my husband is much more than eat nick who would say I'm GonNa go through my closet and get rid of all these things whereas I'm saying I will I just love that shirt. And it might hanging my closet for you know years years it could be ten years old shoes even worse. But that's not running an art museum. Charles Venable is different not because he some kind of weird neat nick. He different because he sees the problem his profession has and he's figured out a way to do something about it. I asked Randy Frost about what it takes to convince a hoarder to thin their collection. He's psychologist we met in the last episode who studies hoarding. He told me that with orders the first step is talking about the object. So you're seeing in this case, the act of forcing someone to. Conceive and verbalize their talking to the object helps them get rid of yes. Shatters the bond someway or well I, think it puts their attachments. into the context of the values of their life because we focus on values, what is it that you value in your life what you want your life to be like? And once you start talking about this and have these this set of ideas about value and where you WanNa, go and your life together. It changes the the valence of the object. This is what Charles Venable and his curator's were doing in Indianapolis as they work their way through the collection. Changing the valence of the objects they were asking, what is it that we value as a museum? Is this object consistent with those values? Acquiring art costs money. The is a nonprofit with a mandate to serve the people of, Indiana. Venable doesn't see how collecting more and more stuff that the public will never see. To mention spending millions of dollars to warehouse at somewhere is consistent without responsibility. You know you need more conservatives you need more art handlers, you need more registrars, you need bigger computer systems. If you ask Charles Venable to give up a work of art for some broader larger reason, he could do it because he's developed a system for giving things up. So I asked him theoretically. About how he and his curators is might evaluate vase with carnations if it were in their collection. So there's a lot is famous artist as you could find, but it's very much a minor work of that artist is that not is that an ao not in a mean not knowing that particular painting I'm just thinking as a as an abstract question same artists minor work. We wouldn't call that a day. We would get we would give it a little bump because by then go a very famous artist but it wouldn't make an aide just because it had his name on it it would. It would be a minor work by that artist and then the questions we would ask is are we doing? A great artist by Van, Gogh in many ways change the course of a Western art history. Are we doing his legacy and his work. A good deed by showing A. Pretty, minor mediocre work. In a great institution. And particularly institution that has much better works by Van Gogh. You know where you can show an a plus at a place like Detroit why? Why would you bother with a minor thing if we were offered a painting like that we would. If somebody wanted we wouldn't buy it for sure and if somebody wanted to give it to us, we would say, well, this is not something that's right to go on our walls. If you WANNA give it to us or are you willing to let a sell it and then bring bring the money back to the collection by something that your name can go. Charles Venable is adept at changing the valence of the objects in his possession. He can give things up, but he's the exception to rest of the art world is still in the grip of their compulsion. As the world slowly begins to be open. Next US once again looks to people for Inspiration asking a simple question. It's been on everyone's mind. Of all the places looking forward to. WHERE WE GO I. will be familiar streets but perhaps unknown roads. Cruising Down Grand Boulevards. Exploring lanes along the coast. Along interstate highway. Journey. Starts in the main drag ends off. Wherever you go. His Alexis. Whether it be today tomorrow or even next month whenever you're ready next is will welcome you back with exceptional offers unexceptional vehicles. Find out all the ways Alexis Yours. TAXES DOT COM. Experience Amazing. Steal. Hello Hello Everyone Malcolm global here. I'm here to say a few words about rake wireless ear buds. Now Hope I know you've all heard the either your buds I. Hadn't time. lost. And I thought Oh. No. Now, I have to spend hundreds of dollars a new set surely there must be a way to get that same convenience in amazing sound for less. Turns out. There is recon Wayne Array now. Half. The price of the other brand and they sound everybody's amazing and they look really amazing to it doesn't look like you have some kind of tube rinse hanging from your ears. Their newest model, the every day twenty, five year buds either best ones yet with six hours of playtime seamless Bluetooth. Pairing more base and a more compact design. It gives you a nice noise isolating fit. Now is time to get the latest and greatest rake on get fifteen percent off your order at by recon dot com slash Bradwell that's by Ray conned dot com slash lab well for fifteen percent off ray con wireless ear buds by on DOT com slash clavell. So back to Claude. Allen. A child fled Europe with his family. About fifteen years ago all in started asking museums holding hedwig art to do a version of what Charles Venable does at Indianapolis or what Randy Frost tries to teach hoarders. To, break their attachment to a specific object by asking a broader question about its relationship to their own values. In essence told the museums my grandmother enter family sold some of their prized possessions in a moment of desperation panic. To help finance their, escape from certain death. Are you sure you feel right about owning an object with that kind of history. Allen started with the Gauguin Street into Haiti and Van Gogh the diggers that will once owned by hedwig brother and sister-in-law. All in and a group of his relatives approached the Toledo Museum and the Detroit Institute of art with their requests. The family was forced to give these paintings up under duress in one, thousand, nine, hundred, Eighty, eight could get them back. What happened? The two museums turned around and sued the islands. That was an order to, and this is one of those wonderful legal euphemisms. Quiet the title to the painting. And when the case went to court the museums one on the narrow grounds that the statute of limitations had expired. According to the Federal Court in Detroit the islands case would have been valid only if they had filed a claim for the diggers within three years where the painting was I sold, it was sold in nineteen, thirty eight. So they needed to ask for back by nineteen. Forty. One. When those members of the Allen family who had not managed to flee for their lives were sitting in concentration camps. Allen had asked the museums to consider the morality of their attachments they responded by pointing to the legality of their attachments. They don't WanNa make this about values no horror would. Consider the story of another van Gogh a spectacular painting called the night cafe. It was once owned by a Russian collector. The bowl should exceed seized it when they took power in thousand eighteen, it's worth hundreds of millions today. Later, it was sold by the Soviets to the heir to the singer sewing machine fortune the Soviets collected a huge profit. The air later willed it to the Yale University Art Museum. Then, the original owners descendant came to gail and said that painting was stolen from my great-grandfather. Did y'all give it back of course. They sued the great grandson and one. There's a Picasso in the Metropolitan Museum in new. York. Called the actor worth. Well, over a hundred million dollars it had been owned by Paul and Alice left Mun a Jewish couple in Cologne Germany who fled for Italy in one thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, seven, sound familiar. They sold the painting to pay for their escape. Their great granny sued the met to get it back saying that it was given up under duress. The Court ruled. In favor of the met. The judge in the case that the left weren't technically under duress because duress for the purposes of the law requires quote fear induced by a specific and concrete threat of harm purposefully presented by its author to extort the victim's consent. In, other words in order for the Left wants to get their Picasso back an official in the Nazi party would have had to come to them in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, seven, put a gun directly to their head and say, Sell Me Your Picasso. And because the fastest chose to be a touch more subtle in their methods of extortion that paintings still hangs today on the walls of the met. And Vase with carnations. There's a legal loophole that case as well had we gave it to an art dealer in one, thousand, nine, hundred, thirty eight but that was to sell on consignment and the art dealer took it to New York and didn't get around to sailing it until after the war was over. HEDWIG may have given it up under duress of the Nazi threat, but it was sold under the duress of the Nazi threat. Claude Allen had no legal claim to with carnations just immoral claim. And moral claims matched up against the compulsions of the hoarder don't amount to much. In the end it was not a museum that returned any piece of Hedwig original art collection. It was packaged goods company one that sells flour biscuits and beer. The ACA group based three hours north of Frankfurt the kraft foods of Germany. The company's former CEO Rudolf August Oscar had an extensive art collection. The company did a providence chuck of his paintings. Discovered that in nineteen fifty, four Rudolph had bought one of the four Hans Thoma Wall paintings that once hung in Hedwig. Living, room. A large canvas of children dancing around a blooming tree when they out of the blue, your father here's That wanted his beloved grandmother paintings is coming back. Yeah. Instead really hit him to the core. The airs did not know the whereabouts of the painting. I'm really now from the short statement released by the group after they contacted the Allens. The company advised them that the painting was in its possession and that it wished to return it to them on moral grounds. The heirs have gratefully accepted. Do you remember can you describe what? What happened when he first dead would have cried? Yeah. Yeah. He was quite emotional and he was quite emotional about. This aspect and we had several conversations over and he would cry nearly every single time. Is it a beautiful painting? Yes. Yeah. It is. It's a beautiful painting but it also. Starts to complete. The circle within our family. The stories we would tell because. HEDVIG had a room where they were the they hands Thoma works dining room, and they were painted around the room and. Hans Tomah. I think was one of the artist you love the most. So to have a work returned was. Almost complete of the circle and. Yeah it was. It was deeply meaningful. Especially to my father. Died shortly after his grandmother's painting was returned. As, for with carnations, it's still in Detroit. The are not pursuing their claims to that painting they know that never win. The painting currently. Is it now on display or is still in storage? Where is it now in the? In a museum, it's on display is being on display and. It was recently. Featuring an exhibition in. The Barberini. Gallery post them next to Berlin. About. Felix. The Detroit Institute of art is in Midtown Detroit across Woodward Avenue from the main branch of the Public Library. A Beautiful Building with an extraordinary collection. If. You get a chance go and see with carnations. and. If you like it stopped by the gift shop and pick up a pair of vase with Canadian socks for Nineteen ninety-five Ninety Five one-size-fits-all and vase with clinicians. Aloe soap for sixteen ninety, five in a little round tin would van goghs carnations on the cover. But don't spend too much time thinking about the painting. The painting is a macguffin. Think about where it came from and what it stands for. And then do me a favor when you leave put a note in the suggestion box. I have seen vase with carnations. It doesn't belong here. Religious history is produced by Neil abell and Leeming guests do with Jacob Smith, Alloys Lynton and ANA nine our editors Julia Barton original scoring by Louis Garra mastering by flawn Williams fact checking by Beth Johnson and special. Thanks to the Pushkin crew. Had To feign carly. mcgladdery Maya Canaan Mega Taylor Jason Gambrill, and of course L. Hefei. Jacob Weisberg. I'm out in.

Claude Allen Van Gogh van Gogh Detroit Detroit Institute of Art Charles Venable Frankfurt Hollywood Indianapolis Europe Paris Venables Germany Art Museums Hedwig Art Collection director New York Lexus Kirk Douglas
Leslie Karst  Sally Solari culinary mysteries

The Joys Of Binge Reading: The Best in Mystery, Romance and Historicals

37:54 min | 1 year ago

Leslie Karst Sally Solari culinary mysteries

"<music> welcome to the joys of binge reading the show for anyone who got to the end of a great book and wanted to read the Knicks installment we interview successful series Authors Thor's and recommend the beast and mystery suspense historical and Romance Series so you'll never be without a book you care for them. You find the episodes show notes a free e book and lots more information at the joys of binge reading Dot Com cope and now is Russia easily cast sally salary food mystery series is spice just right to tweet us back for second helpings with razor shot plotting a vibrant Santa Cruz Satan and the Barness of some great recipes for you to cook yourself hi there. I'm your genie we land today lease talks about motor from scratch the fourth book in what she calls her snacky cosies Aziz and about transitioning from law to full time writing but before we talked to Leslie just to remind the show nights but this binge reading episode can be found on the website the joys of binge reading Dot Com. That's where you'll find links to listless books and website as well as details about how to subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss future episodes but now he is loosely Heller they loosely and welcome to the sharp. It's great great to have you with us. Jenny so great to be talking halfway halfway round the world from California to New Zealand. It's really fabulous. That's right. We're joined by the Pacific Ocean exactly look worse list of once upon a time moment when you decided you wanted to write fiction as distinct from other things you might say writing at if so was there a catalyst for it you know I I've always been fascinated by words in language since I was a little kid <hes> <unk> but I never actively planned to be a writer but somehow I ended up writing for most of my life as a college student. I was a literature major so I wrote a lot of the papers about literary criticism and then after I graduated I dabbled in poetry in my angst-ridden twenties. I moved over to writing songs for a couple of bands. I had a new wave band in the eighties and then and then later in the nineteen nineties I had a country rock band called Electric Range Ange <hes> that I formed with my sister in after that I went on to law school and I became a lawyer and I spent twenty years writing research member Nimmo's an appellate briefs so there it was the time I was ready to retire as a lawyer. I realized writing must be in my blood so I I said I have to continue writing but that point. I decided I wanted to do something new in that's why I decided to to go to fiction completely different Trim mm-hmm legal briefs certainly it so you've now risen four books near Sally Celaya mystery series that Sir Calorie Series Asian restaurant features a lot of food. I just wanted to questions really why why did you choose mysteries as genre and how did you come upon the calorie painful them well as I said when I decided to switch to fiction <hes> I settled on mysteries partly because I'd read them a lot is when I was younger <hes> but I also thought it I realized that crafting the twists and turns of a murder mystery. I realized that that's actually not that different from the detail oriented work that one employs when you're drafting legal briefs Reef so in turns out I was right about that and so that's why I went to the mysteries plus come on fun. Everybody likes the food aspect I've been obsessed with taste and the texture and the presentation of food <hes> ever since I was a kid and as a result I actually ended up going to culinary art school while I worked as a lawyer and got a degree in that and <hes> guess which I liked better and so when I decided to try my hand at writing a mystery novel. It seemed like a no brainer that had had involved food in cooking at I just had to bit was in food mysteries popular so I thought okay I can combine these to really have a good time. Yeah that's right now cellars restaurant as an old style Italian eatery in Santa Cruz that kind of probably I think combined another couple of three of us in story. It's obvious you love Santa Cruz. You've been praised wasteful. The <unk> seats a place that the books and also. I wonder if if there is some Italian in your own heritage. We'll start with that. I I had in my d._N._A.. Tested a few years ago and I was sorely disappointed to learn that no I have no Mediterranean blood in me at all. I wanted so that's but Santa Cruz. <hes> has a lot of Italians in in our community and so what happened was okay. I moved to Santa Cruz from the Los Angeles area back in the nineteen seventies to attend the University here U._C._S._C. go fighting banana slugs and in the town was and still is completely magical for me. I mean we have these glorious coastlines in redwood forests. We have this rich history of agriculture and fishing and and now really vibrant vibrant visual and performing arts culture not to mention of course fabulous farmers markets listen shark coutries and cheesemakers and bakeries and breweries and distilleries and restaurants perfect for me until I love Santa Cruz <hes> and so I think if the books is sort of a love letter to town and I also think of the town is another character so when I set out to write the books I knew they had to take place in Santa Cruz and I didn't WanNa make it a fictional town. I wanted to make it real because I love the city so much. It's sometimes it causes problems but mostly it's fun. I'm just doing walking around and getting inspired to use places in it in there's so there's actually a little story behind how I decided to use the town in the series so I was I'd come up with this. The idea to write this culinary series set in Santa Cruz and <hes> and I I know it's when I first moved here in the seventies. It was still Kinda. Sleepy little town the university was new <hes>. There were a lot of Italian fishermen's as I said in farmers also retired people but then with the university coming in in the late sixties the town started to attract a whole new sort of inhabitants in so we got students and hippies than later on hipsters and techies because we're right next to silicon valley and so so at the time I was trying to come up with ideas for my midstream I was I was <hes> will the Food Revolution had descended full force upon the town by them and one day I was wandering down the our our historical. <hes> fisherman's warf in. I had this idea what would happen if as local Santa Cruz Gal who who's from one of these traditional Italian fishing families found herself caught between that old world and the newly arrived political <unk> politically excuse me politically correct food movement and I thought yes that would be the perfect backdrop for for culinary mystery because it's always good to have a little bit attention the background so that's where I came up with that and that's great because it leads very nicely into talking about your first book which was called giant for a taste and you had quite a lot of fun with Californian holy cows like sex sustainable organic farming and the shape police type of restaurants. I can see now that you've explained the background ground way that would come in but the two worlds Mason isn't there. Did you give kind of reaction from the foodies to that <hes> yeah well. It's a good question because you know I right. It's a light mystery that I see is falling somewhere between clean the cozy in the traditional. It's sort of I called him. Snarky cosies and you know when you're writing that style book you have to you have to be careful not to come across as being too preachy or pedantic I mean I guess that's true for any book. Nobody wants to be preached to but but the food movement and this conflict is is very it's still a big part of our <unk> dynamics of our town and so I did my best I wanted to include it. I wanted to make the book realistic but I did my best to make sure that that aspect of the story didn't overwhelm it that it's more of a I don't know spice if you will yeah glimpse into real life conflicts but without coming across heavy handed <hes> and and thank goodness. I'm happy to say that in general the actually <unk> across the board of the reactions positive I've never had anybody criticize the books for Hump on that basis so so I guess I succeeded. Thank goodness. That's good good and you've mentioned already electric range. Sally Elliot's also <unk> These member of Akhara group at one stage and this quite a lot of music in the books in the last. There's a lot of references to jazz and it's a little bit of at imitating life again because as you mentioned ancient you're a singer songwriter and I think electric ranges still recording as it no delays Alaska I do have I could see why you'd think that because I just recently posted a on my on my author website. <hes> Leslie Karst Author Dot Dot Com. There is a page of as of me being a songwriter in there's a link to a place where you can listen to part of that album that we recorded the nineteen nineties and you can buy the CD if you like <hes> in in which is fun. I because I want to get it out there. I I'm very proud of C._d.. But alas no we broke up in the late nineties and and I haven't been I haven't written any songs since then but I do <hes> saying I switched from from from rock and roll and country to singing aalto at my local community chorus partly just because it's a lot easier you don't have to lug around heavy equipment and microphones at the map you could just show up at saying and I'd studied classical music as a youngster and so it's fun to sing the great masterworks like Beethoven <unk> huge we sing with our symphony local symphony sometimes in that really a lot of fun but yes I love music. I grew up on it and there is a quite a bit of music in my books in especially in the second book where Sally Allie joins a chorus but a little bit all of them yet in the last one the jazz aspect on becomes out of the hotline at one stage. So what do you enjoy most about writing now. How long have you been a fulltime writer now? Oh <hes> well I retired from law about ten years ago and I started writing immediately after that. It took several years to get an agent and then a publisher but I'd say about ten years but the first facebook didn't come out until it's been what six years farmers something like that if yeah yeah what do you enjoy most about it. You know I I'd have to say I like writing dialogue the most <hes> which I know a lot of people find that very difficult but <unk> it comes easily. I'm as I said earlier I have been obsessed with language my whole life I've studied foreign languages. I I love Grammar and so I love listening to people's conversations around me in and I pay attention to their phrasing their accents their use of vocabulary in when I'm writing dialogue I just imagined that person in what they would sound like and how they would speak in for me. That's just a great joy. Oh I love that unlike plotting which is very difficult. That's the hardest part Yep the do you start due to a full outline before he began writing. I tried to <hes> often they change on me. I want to even had my you might my murderer change on me midway through the book which was rather disturbing but yeah. I try to apply dot as much as I can. I'm very I'm organized kind of brain. Doing the seedier pants thing I find very <unk> would find very stressful. I saw somebody refer in a review to you as a polymath. I had to actually look it up. Do you think you are Paulie MAC will i. I have a lot of interest. It's true <hes> <hes> I'm just curious person. I'm what they call a lifetime learner at our local community colleges. I'm always taking classes learning different things so so. Maybe I don't know that I'm an expert in too many things but <hes> but I do yeah I do have a lot of a lot of different interests than I do. Put them in the books because why not it's fun it and so I think salad comes across that way as well that's right and you'll less recent book which is murder from scratch. You've got a important secondly character eveland WHO's Sally's Blind Qasem who comes to stay and I thought to that character beautifully because you really get a sense of a very tactile saints off it would be. I'd like to be blind and I wondered how much research you did for that part of the story. Yeah I had to <hes> so what happened was I <hes> I was spending an afternoon with a blind friend several two years ago and I was struck by how it has house how easily he was able to locate whatever you needed you know jar of Marmalade in the fridge or or in particular. He wanted to play a C._D.. For me and he and he had all these C._D.'s lined ended up against his wall and he ran his finger down them any pulled one out and he put it on the C._D.. Player in it was exactly the one he wanted to play for me. It was a Tchaikovsky piece and I was amazed at. How did you do that? He said well you know I've just organized when he and I it immediately hit me. Oh my goodness first of all how much more reliant on their other senses a blind person has to be to get along in the world and I'd never really thought about it in that way before and it so how organized you'd have to be in your your life compared to somebody like me who can just rely on their vision to get buy in then he realized what a perfect setup that would be for a murder mystery to have a blind character who by virtue of her heightened sense of touch and so I'm it's. I'm glad you focused in on the touched because that was part of how how that person would be able to discover clues that cited sleuth would miss and so that's why I created Evelyn to to end so she helps Sally <hes> with her with the wood salt in her mother's murder. There's okay I'm going to answer the here. You probably never noticed this unless I told you but for me it's fun each of my books in addition to being about food which they're mostly Oh sleep food in food and murder go together so but they each have <hes> one of the different senses is sort of backdrop for them in so the first one is obviously taste and then the second one where she joins the chorus hearing the third one where Sally Kelly becomes interested in painting because the restaurant she's inherited his is named after Paul Gauguin in this one is the sense of touch so we're Evelyn sense of touch help solve the murder <hes> so it's just kind of a fun thing for me to play with <unk>. How is it is yes so that came out that was a perfect thing for for the touch one so what he did? I J Book Five Book. Five is the sense of smell in the end <unk> actually never answered your question about the research and I'll get back to that but the sense of smell on on the very first page sally wakes up and discovers that a sinus infection that she's been fighting off the last couple of weeks his caused sure to go to lose your sense of smell which of course for somebody who is a cook in a restaurant in loves food as much as as horrible and so it's actually sort of the lack of the sense rather than the <unk> itself that plays a sort of just they're just sort. It's a background to the novel <hes> in more than halfway through writing that book <hes> anyway getting back to the research for the blind character so what I'd once I decided to do this. I called this guy up and I said can I come and spend a couple of days with you and just tag around. I want to write this book and I WanNa have a blind. Can you said yeah that'd be great. He was really excited and see lives in Ohio so I flew to Ohio and spent a couple of days with him and it turns out he and his wife rent downstairs room to another <hes> to a blind gals thirty who's <unk> closer to the age of the character in the two of them were so gracious in lovely to man they let me <hes> follow them around and wash them and see how they live their life in Gallup's downstairs in fact she wanted wanted to cook dinner so she did it for me and I got to watch a cook and so that's you'll see in the book that Evelyn is a loves to cook and that's based on actually watching the scowl do that so it was it was wonderful. I could never written the book if it weren't for their generosity generosity of other people people that I would call up and say. Can I ask you questions about what it's like to be blind and then I had people read the book so I really wanted to get it right. I didn't want to blow it and I'm happy to say that people generally have been very pleased with my portrayal of Evelyn Yeah. It's luckily I was a priest about control because I never really thought about that. Side of things really to be honest. Yes particularly this quite a tactile seats with the way you described him making pasta unsuitable. Yes yes now so that I did wonder. Have you got any plans for Sally's Larry Cookbook because every book does also give some wonderful recipes for those who might be interested in having a little additional bonus to the story yeah yeah each each book has four or five different recipes that are drawn from the books themselves in that pasta recipe is is in book five <hes> it and it's based on a tally the grandmother of an Italian friend of mine <hes> is where is where I got that recipe from <hes> you know I've got let's see I've got four books now with suddenly have about twenty recipes <hes> so I don't have enough at this point but but I if somebody hey if somebody wants me to to ride a recipe book give me a call. It would be fun but no there's no right now. There's nothing in the works but but but I'm open to it and I presume you've obviously made all the dishes that you feature. Oh absolutely well all the roads that I brought recipes for because I have to WHO <hes> immediate measure. I'm not I'm not somebody who measures pancer may not be Panther for writing but I'm definitely panther for cooking and I sort of just add things taste go in so I have to come up with the recipes. I have to sit down and stand in measure everything <hes> and write it down and then Redo it if it's wrong until like 'cause you know you can't write a recipe like that. Oh just a little of this still. It tastes right that fly but yeah it's fun. Coming up with the recipes is really fun and as I write the book <hes> each book they each different season in so I I have lists of seasonal vegetables and seafood and things like that and I I'll get inspired. I'll read it and go oh. Oh these are season and I'll come up with recipes of my head and then have them be the recipes that the she serves at the restaurant and then of course then then that comes to run recipe that I have to like really okay really. How do I make up but it's actually I love that part of it is really fun and you and you really do make your own astor? Oh Yeah Yeah it's actually way easier than it's not that difficult but it's a little bit of practice just so that you don't overwork at kind of like making a pie crust but yes it actually you really quickly and it's so the not by the the good pasta in the grocery store so expensive and you know if you make it yourself it costs nothing just all it is eggs and flour yeah. Have you lead the risk in the book. I go through step-by-step how to do it so that's wonderful. That's wonderful turning to you wide career Leslie. Tell us a bit more about your life before fulltime writer. You mentioned you work in the legal profession. What what did you specialize in there? And how has it influenced your writing. Will I worked as a research independent attorney which means you spend all your days in the library researching the case in facts in the law in in writing briefs or <hes>. I read a lot of appellate briefs in I wrote a lot of research memos. It's kind of like writing a term paper every day of your life and it actually you know it's funny. I hadn't originally thought this but the more I thought about it. I realized that it really was a good preparation for becoming mystery writer because okay what are the most important components of writing a good mystery. Obviously is the story right how you set it up. Are you place your clues in your red hair earnings Harrier characterize the protagonists near suspects and your car and same at you in the law so when you <hes> like a mystery story how you set for the fact your case illegal legal brief is is really really important so you have to decide which facts to include in which leave out obviously you can't leave out really important factors ethical component of consider and so you can't leave out a fact just because it might be harmful to your client but you but how you present the facts you a certain amount of leeway with that and that's obviously a mystery knob. It's unfair to leave out information by <unk> resolution of your mystery just because it might make it easier to guess so those are similar and then also one really another important part of a uh-huh <unk> illegal case is how you tell the story which elements emphasize what do you play down which obviously similar to how you employ red herrings included a mystery and then there's your voice in your readability <unk> readability of yearbook great as you know as with any great novel N. Attorney drafting a brief launched the judge to be drawn to the story so it ended up that it actually was. I think a really good preparation. I would have never thought that but you know I'm very yet to very organized in detail oriented and of course like me my character. Sally is an ex attorney so I get to use a little bit of that law in the in books to she she has she's able to use her knowledge of wills and probate and trust and things sometimes in helping solve the cases <hes> so I actually I think being a lawyer really was a great preparation for being a mister novel novelist. I'm not saying go to law school is evaporation for that because a lot of work but it helps me evidently will any of the cases that you write about actually murders. Were they more sort of indeed things on rather more dry areas they are of the firm I worked for was a civil firm and and so <hes> I didn't do murder cases actually during law school I did do an internship with the local public attorney of excuse me <hes> the the the the the a public defender so I did do some criminal cases but I never personally worked on a murder case. No thank goodness again out hard to think about it night. Yeah it's right but if they once oh you've done more than any other that you see as the secret of your success and you're right agree that is is there something that you know <hes> I think I think perseverance is the number one thing that I've done <hes> <hes> there. There's so many people out there that are right beautiful manuscripts or our great writers and have the talent but <hes> a lot of people you know they get a certain point on their manuscript and get stuck in the can't finish it and you just have to keep going and work your way through it and finish the finish the darn book and then Watch it got this manuscript you have to hone rewrite and and then you have to if you if you do the road I did which is to try to get a traditional publisher. You have to shop to agents and publishers. Keep going after dozens or maybe hundreds of rejections and so I think I I thought well I know that I do have perseverance and followed through when I kept. Gone after I had over one hundred action agents before I finally got signed with London. I just kept going. I got discouraged but I just kept going. I think yeah that's I would. That's my advice to people. If you truly believe in yourself. Keep going just keep doing it. I guess the way you would publishing. I just a bit less than a decade ago. The indie publishing failed was locked effort from what it is today but are you happy with your decision to bay traditionally published Yeah Yeah I think I am because <hes> even though you know there used to be sort of a stigma about being independently published which doesn't exist at all anymore. I just didn't want to do the work. I didn't WanNa do the come up with the cover and I didn't WanNa do the work of formatting formatting the Manny's Krypton and I'm just not interested in that so having somebody else do that for me was was wonderful and that's the main thing she either actually these days you make more money if you publish independently because you get a bigger cut of your book yeah that is right not yet but <hes> but no. I'm glad I went traditional route. It is a tremendous amount of extra work. There's no doubt about that. Look turning to Leslie as readout. We called the series the joys of Ben Trading because it's predicated a little bit around this idea the growing popularity of series people discover one book and want to read the rest of the series <hes>. Who Do you like to read and who have you been trade in the past? Well you know I'm <hes> <hes> I guess I'm kind of old school because my very very favorite mysteries are those from the Golden Age people like Dorothy Sayers Agatha Christie and Josephine Tay <hes> because that's who I was reading when I was in my teenager in college but I also endorse Sue Grafton who's her series actually was kind of an inspiration for me to start writing is because it was sort of a bland be during the the traditional series kind of like like like like I was saying like Agatha Christie but here's a little more hard edged <hes> little more snarky. Shall I say so she inspired me. I thought I I WANNA character Kinsey so definitely was inspiration <hes> but as for as for current writers <hes> well okay I be greatly remiss. I'm going to shout for my fellow chicks on the case I have a group blog with these than they are wonderful people that I adore of their books and I recommend them to everybody Ellen Byron and <unk>. I'm all I haven't written down here. So I won't forget Becky Clark. MARLA Kuker Vicky fee <hes> Kelly Garrett Cynthia coon Lisa Q. Mathewson Kathleen Volonte Valenti just fabulous writers all of their series so I I would and that's sexually at every time they haven't spoken. There's a lot of them. I read their books so I spent a lot of time reading and what set log code it's called chicks on the case so the Google chicks face and they're all mystery writers are they all mystery writers and we all right between cozy and traditional that that genre and and and they all have a certain amount of humor in them <hes> yeah and in the blog is really fun. We we post three times a week. We take turns doing our own blogs blogs and then we have guests <hes> authors as bloggers in the we also have guests who are involved in the Mr Reineck communities such as <hes> editors and in other bloggers and and we've had agents so yeah. It's pretty fun. I like it a lot of it's great and are you a member of any other writer organizations to network with rises. Absolutely I joined sisters in crime back before I even finished mattress manuscript in I found that organization to be invaluable so much the mystery writing community is so helpful and generous and warm and it's I couldn't believe rape people were giving advice in reading your work if you want them to and so I recommend sisters in crime for anybody WHO's interested in writing <hes> crime fiction and I'm also now a member of mystery writers of America. It sounds great but we started to come to the end of our time together so sick clint back looking over your career at this stage if you doing it all again. Let's say anything that you would change you know. I can't think of a thing I pretty happy with. What's happened to me? I guess that's good right very good i. I can't think of anything that I would change now. It's lovely so what is next felice Lee the writer. Have you got some projects in the in the oven so to speak I do well. I mentioned that I'm about more than halfway closer to two thirds of the way through the salaries Ali celery mystery number five which I mentioned earlier where she will one where she wakes up with her lack of ability to smell poor sally that actually happened to me once and so I'm able to draw on experiences. Thank goodness mind came back but you know I actually have something completely different going on right now as well which I be happy to tell you about <hes> I had the good fortune about a little over ten years ago to Cook Dinner for Supreme Court Justice Ruth with better Ginsberg who was a colleague of my fathers who was the law professor back in the sixties and they remained friends and colleagues over the years and <hes> and so I actually ended up writing a memoir of that experience which is called Cooking Ruth and my agent is currently shopping that memoir so I hope to get that published sometime in the not too distant future <hes> I'm really excited about. It's about a law about obviously about Justice Ginsburg but it's also very much about cooking and so it's kind of combining. My different interests <hes> so that's. I'm very excited about that. That's great fan. I'm estimate I saw the movie one of the movies on her just in the last six months and it was fantastic. Is She a New Zealander shades of fee nom that she has here in the United States. That's not quite to the same extent but the certainly a group of people who really know offer admire him most definitely yeah. Right right good adhere long may she. She's Nice. You remain definitely well. I happen to know I've been in touch with her lightly because my father passed away in April so we've been corresponding. She still doing doing really well <unk>. It's look you split your time between California and Hawaii. I believe so tell us about that but of your life. How does that work together? Well <hes> I've been going to with my wife and I will you started started going to <hes> Hawaii back in the early nineties because my mother and father loved the Big Island of Hawaii they spent a lot of time there and we started visiting there and we ended up the four of US actually ended up buying a house together on the Big Island and in now that lots retired from being a lawyer and Robin retired from her job. We started spending half the year there so we spend our winters and spring basically are late late fall through early spring in Hawaii because we you have such cold miserable weather here in the winter in California. I know you feel really sorry for me and the rest of the time I'm here in Santa Cruz and it's you know as far as affecting my writing. Doesn't I can ride anywhere. Are you know that's not a problem so yeah. I write in both places. It's rather like the Canadians fleeing to the south of U._S.. <unk> exactly so it's been wonderful token <unk> I gather you are active online into face with your readers. You get quite a bit of Rita feedback. I do a lot I get as I said I blog with the chicks on on the case and it's really fun people post comments than we can comment with interact that way and I also have a website <hes>. If you just Google my name Leslie car it's Leslie Karst Author Dot Com but if you could well my name Leslie Karston comes right up and <hes> mm-hmm and there's a contact if you type a message in the contact I get that as an email and I love corresponding with people of anybody who wants to write me an email. I always will write you back and I I'm on facebook of course which is a lot of fun <hes> so helped you know I like. I like a lot of people hate the social media stuff but I actually think it's quite another posting pictures in chatting with people. What kind of feedback is common that you get about by? You know probably the number. One thing I get is people right and say I got so hungry reading your book. I had to stop go. Make lunch which that's great. I love that I get hungry writing something in the middle of the season. I have to get up and fix myself somebody to you're not alone. That's wonderful and so with selley just getting back to sell it for a moment so weakness number five going to be coming out. I don't know because I haven't even finished it sometime. I hope next year if not to be number six cents I you know I hope so <hes> I have actually a part of a manuscript that I intended to be one of the second or third one <hes> the salad goes to Hawaii Oh and <hes> in I hope I'm hoping that that will be number. Six spent will see it's <hes> it's very much up in the air but if all things go as I hope that will be number six yes and of course you can't compare anything away but the defendant feeling that south things garnered developed with detector did it to us is is anything stopping the Knicks with that well you know <hes> May maybe you'll have to a lot that line with Eric the WHO wants to get back together again Gannett she's prevarication and then as soon as he starts to start interest doubts way she gets a little bit pippi about it. So the ads really nice isn't that the kind of the way life always go the way guys yeah <hes>. I like to keep a yes. I'm keeping everything in the hopper. That's great to give the DOG A K lizzy. Look it's wonderful to have chattered and up amac shoulder. All of these links get put into the shy nights so it's easy for your readers to find your thank you so much for your time today. Thank you so much Jenny. I'm so honored to be been invited to be a part of your fabulous fabulous blog and podcasts of thank you so much. That's wonderful a bite out all right bye. Thanks for listening to the joys of venture reading podcast. You can find all the details and links for this episode at Dub Dub Dub dot the joys of venture reading Dot Com. We'd love to hear your comments and suggestions as for who you'd like us to interview next and if you enjoyed the show take a moment to subscribe on Itunes or a similar provider so you won't miss out on future guests thanks for joining us and happy reading the joys of bench reading podcast podcast is put together with fantastic technical help from Dan cotton and Abe Raffles. Dan is an experience sound and video engineer whose radiant available to help you with your next project seek them out at D C Audio Services at G MAIL DOT COM that Steve Daniel CPA Charlie audio services ex G._M.. Out DOT COM or check casher nights he's fast he takes pride and getting it right and he's great to work with a voice. I was done by Abe rebels and now the G._M.. Of Sound and scream I has twenty years of experience Syrians on both sides of the camera slash microphone as a cameraman Director and also as voice artist and TV presenter. I think you'd a grey that his voice is both lighthearted and warm. He is super easy to work with. No matter what the job you'll find him at a a B E anche point and shoot dot card dot insead as I say the full.

Santa Cruz writer murder Leslie Evelyn Yeah Sally Hawaii Knicks California dot Jenny Sally Celaya publisher Google Pacific Ocean Leslie Karst cosies Aziz New Zealand Russia
Hedwigs Lost Van Gogh

Revisionist History

44:13 min | 11 months ago

Hedwigs Lost Van Gogh

"Pushkin. Vicious history is presented by Lexus. Wherever you may go is Alexis for every road. As the world slowly begins to reopen nexus once again looks to people for Inspiration asking a simple question. It's been on everyone's mind. Of all the places you're looking forward to. Where will you go, I? will be familiar streets. Perhaps unknown roads wherever you go whenever you're ready, nexus will welcome you back with exceptional offers on exceptional vehicles. Find a lexus. For Every Rhode. HAVEN'T ACCESS DOT COM. Experience Amazing. At Your Lexus dealer. In March of eighteen eighty six vincent then go move from Antwerp to Paris to live with his brother. Theo in mart, you very soon became befriended with some of the other artists living there who would become very famous within the next deacades like for example Paul Senac only to lose low, take immune there now and some others, and he learned a lot from them. Stefan called Half German art expert. And that led to his willingness. To make experiments in becoming an artist when he painted and rather dark brownish grayish. During his time before in the Netherlands, he was willing to try out what to do with color. How to form things with color invent Gogh's effort to master oil painting. He painted still lifes mostly flowers. He couldn't afford models in a space of a few years. He produced dozens and dozens of paintings. The Paris period means that from God just had decided to become an artist. He no longer wanted to try other professions like he did before like being a preacher or teacher or helping people, he now made the decision. I want to be a paint and he knew that Peres is the place to be. My name is Malcolm. Grab well. You're listening to revisionist history. My podcast about things overlooked and misunderstood. This episode is a continuation of investigation into the hoarding habits of Art Museums. It's about one of dozens of still lifes. Van Gogh painted in his Paris period. A small canvas seventeen inches by fourteen inches vase with carnations. That little painting concerns out. Training and troubled history. Van Gogh painted vase with carnations right after his arrival in Paris at some point. Death for years later, it was acquired by a wealthy German. Couple had fish woman, and her husband Abed women were one of the most important art collector couples in Frankfurt in western Germany. They made their money out of business. They very early decided to invest money. in works of art, which are not commonly regarded as very important works, so they were very daring collectors, and that shows that it was not only investment. It was also the love of art which led them to buying works for example by a fungal, but also by several impressionist painters had with omen sold with carnations on consignment to an art dealer. WHO TOOK IT BACK TO NEW YORK? Just before the Second World War. That dealer intern. SOLITU- TO WILLIAM GETS one of the most powerful producers in Hollywood. Gets his wife Edith daughter of the legendary Louis B. Mayer had one of the greatest private collections of impressionist art in the world. My grandmother were called the hostess of Hollywood and she. Spent, her entire life hosting lavish parties, people go like. Livy A and Timothy Capote. Yul Brenner gets his granddaughter. Victoria bleeding I had dinner with more Bolivia when I was. You know interesting. Amongst offense and Latour that they got and demand, and this is this is this is our at finger balls and the whole nine yards. And then they would have movies in the living room and in the living room. Parents. You've seen the pictures of it, but this is where the Monet. Blue for Cosso. The other Picasso was she had Harlequin with calls. And All these things rob law and all this is. The in the living room, houses and everything and that that. Painting was come up in the screen with come down and then we watched movies. Founded. The prices are disappear into the ceiling and a movie screen descend in its place. If that is the greatest metaphor for Hollywood I don't know what is. In nineteen fifty-six Kirk Douglas started a movie about Tango Culture Lust for life. Few. People know the real story of this intense strong men. Now, his tumultuous career is revealed for the first time with. Sunday. With all. If you look at the corner of the movie poster for for life there, it is fozzard carnations. But by then gets sold it. He didn't hang onto his van Gogh the way he did his other treasures. It wasn't for him. The painting pass to the heirs to the K. Mart Fortune Catherine Kreisky. Who Am I? GonNa things was once married to a Swedish baron. She convinced him to leave London and come live with her in her native Detroit. Perhaps unsurprisingly, the Swedish barons order for Miss Kresge did not survive the move to Michigan. When Kresge died in nineteen ninety, she willed vase with carnations to the Detroit Institute of Art. She gave it without restriction. Meaning the dia bone could do what they wanted. Sell it traded didn't have to make it part of their permanent collection. Kresge clue didn't care anymore for the painting and it. And neither did the DIA. They put in a basement for twenty years. Vincent Van Gogh painted many remarkable canvases. This is now one of them. You also painted larger flower still lives in Perez, but this one thus. kind of canvas which I think was not meant for sale, or as a present for acquaintances or girlfriends, or has models, or so it was just for trying out. Things are experts like to damn with faint praise vows with carnations gets a lot of faint praise. It's very nice. It's very profound, but it's not a very well. Spectacular. Composition or color combination. It's just kind of let me try out what happens if I this if I do this and so it's nice, but not really an important work. The current head of the Detroit Institute of art, Salvador's solar. Pons says the problem is advised with carnations. Just doesn't look like a van Gogh when you say it doesn't look like Van Gogh. What me say, look like sunflowers. I mean he's not a typical work. Like. You would like the tough portrait. Or the works that he did when he was in the south of France, the most famous works. that. The? General Public knows Van Gogh. Did then there's the fact that the painting had a stamp on the back a sign that it was painted on a fancy bit of stretch canvas. Then go in his Paris. Here's was broke. What was he doing with a fancy canvas? It took years to resolve that particular discrepancy. And in the meantime, lots of people began to think vase with carnations was a fake later, we discovered that that canvas with. The Stop on the back was not actually part of the work was added later. So you had the original campus then you have. Lining cameras glued to the regional canvas, and then you had these third cameras. We stencil stamp of EVAC. So once we remove that. We understood that was not part of the original work. So here we have then go. The does not look like a van Gogh. That was never intended to be sold or shown or even given away that a German couple bought somewhere around the turn of the century, and then sold that turned up in the home of Hollywood mogul, and served as a prop in a Kirk Douglas. Movie poster then finally landed in Detroit with a K. Mart heiress, who threw it in as an afterthought when she made her bequest to the DIA. Whereupon the painting languished in a cellar for a quarter century. Of a dubious bit of. Glued to the back. What's your personal feeling about this painting? Do you like it. Are you drawn to? I like it because I. Have a personal story connected to it, you know when I came to the museum. The maintain wasn't a storage. As an attributed painting by Van. Gogh with basically no value. I was able to bring an up to the galleries and put it together with other four van Goghs that the has. Awarded I. IT looks like by a Sunday painter. US consider by by forger. Would have no value, no monetary value, but the minute we consider it as by handle. It has a value of several million dollars. However, the has not changed. The painting continues to be what it is. What has change? Is the perception that we have on the painting. And that is a really interesting concept to think about. So, I liked the painting a for that. Yeah, but if someone said to you when you retire, it's director. You can take one of the DA's Van. Goghs with you. Which one would you take, not this? So why should we care about vase with carnations? We shouldn't. It's not the painting that matters. The painting is just a macguffin. CABOT. In case you don't know what I mean by macguffin. Let's consult the Dick Cabinet show nineteen seventy two. Candidates guest is the legendary film director Alfred Hitchcock the great proponent of McGovern's. Explain, what a macguffin I`Ma Goffin. You see in most films about spy. Is the thing that the spies are often? In the days of Roger Kipling. Will be the plans of the Fort on the Khyber Pass. I would be the plans of an airplane engine. And the plans of an atom bomb, and like it's always called the thing that the characters on the screen worry about the audience don't care. The macguffin is used to propel the plot to motivate the characters, but which has no intrinsic value to anyone else. Vase with carnations is a macguffin. It's described in a scene in English train going to scoff. One man says to the other opposite implicit. What's that package about your head? There? Now elements? Oh, that's a macguffin. It's what is a macguffin. Is Operatives for. Trapping lions in the Scottish highlands. Mansi Berar new lands in the Scottish highlands each other. Then that's no macguffin. Thank you for clearing that up. I repeat. It's not the painting that matters. That has always been a mistake. The way people have thought about vase with carnations. No more mcmuffins? After the break. Let's start the story again. What's the number one sign of a bad home security system? Home Security System so complicated. You never use it. This is exactly the type of security system. SIMPLISAFE has spent a decade fighting against. They believe that simple is safer and that's exactly. Why simply safe is the home security for right now? When feeling safe at home is never been more important. Simply safe was designed to be easy to use while protecting your home twenty four seven order online with the click of a button open the box placed the sensors. Plug it in, and your home is protected around the clock, note, technician or sales. Person has to come and disrupt your house. You don't even need to pay any outrageous monthly fees or sign a two year contract. Simply safe was named best overall home security of twenty twenty by us, news and world. Report and you're twenty. Four seven professional monitoring and emergency dispatch starts at fifty cents a day. Ahead to SIMPLISAFE DOT com slash glad well I get free shipping and a sixty day money back guarantee. That's simplisafe dot com slash glad well to make sure. They know that our show said you. I have a confession to make I'm obsessed with running. Most days I finish work and go for run in the evening. Where do hills in my backyard or head out to the track? I think of my running time as my moment of reflection. And over the past two years, I've been running gear made by tracks. New England based brand make some of the most functional and beautiful products on the market. Even before they decided to advertise with us a Pushkin Attract Smith guy turned on my friends onto. Track Smith believes. The best running apparel starts with the absolute finest materials designed the specific needs of runners. It's the only gear our. Their summer collection just launched filled with more products. I loved the perfectly balanced performance style fast enough for racing picketed enough walk into my local coffee shop without feeling sub-conscious. Favorite is the tracks Smith amador. T made out of the most insanely soft cotton. You'll ever find which I wearing. As I speak. Learn more attract. Smith DOT com slash revisionist history and use code glad well checkout for fifteen dollars off your first order of seventy five dollars or more. This just talk about your family. Great Grandmother is Hedwig Allman. Yes, that's correct. Yes, she came from a family who had for a very long time lived in Frankfurt. Many. Relatives who have very embedded history in the city I'm talking with Sophie Ellen. She lives in Melbourne. Her Great Grandmother Was Hedwig Omen, the first known owner of Oz with carnations. HEDWIG was born in Eighteen, seventy, two into a wealthy family in Germany married Albert Almond live with him in a grand residence cult, Avila Girl Lock in Frankfurt and together built an extraordinary collection. So she collected with a great passion medieval sculpture that was a huge passion of hers. She collected porcelain. She collected Silva. And She I believe she had different rooms for each of these. Passions in. HEDWIG and Hubbard had two sons and many grandchildren, one of whom was named Claude, so if his father. He remember HEDWIG. He was so attached to Henryk he He was I think the favorite? And she was his favourite. He always spoke of a really fondly and I think. He felt that that was probably the person he loved the most. Did he talk about what she was like? Yes, a little bit. Yeah. I mean for Monica can remember as a young boy very warm and loving and quite gentle. Incredibly interested in the arts, but the life of clouds grandparents took a sudden turn because the almonds were Jewish. Frankfurt was already starting to change in by nine, hundred, thirty, three and I'm not sure exactly what date, but I know that going to. The opera became an issue if you had Jewish heritage. You couldn't there was a stage where you couldn't go to the upper and that was something that hedvig. Constantly she lived around the corner from the upper house. Her lifestyle started change my grandparents. So they left, they left I. And HEDVIG didn't come to Milan to write. Within six months the last six months they were there. She's going to. Year thirty eight, thirty nine. What year do you know I think it was right. At the end of nine hundred, thirty, eight, the end of nineteen, thirty eight was of course, Kristallnacht the night of broken glass. When at Hitler is direction, mobs destroyed hundreds of synagogues and yeshivas across Germany. It was impossible to be a German Jew Kristallnacht and imagined that you were safe. hedvig sold off as much of her art collection as she could. She fled to Milan to join her son's. Then the intentions of Mussalini towards Jews became clear, and the whole family fled again. This time to Australia. So they, they got in time. Yes, they did, and they go via the Panama Canal. Remember my father I. Don't Know How on Earth could have remembered that because he was just he was under two years of age, but I think it was about a six week trip and the two brothers with their families. They both had two children each and head as the as the matriarch. They brought her all up, so there were there were nine of them. They made it to Melbourne change their last names. allman became Allen and May of nineteen forty five four days before the end of the war, Hedrick died. My, father, my uncle probably spent most of their lives, just assimilating and. Embracing the life they had, and I think bearing the sadness as much as they could. Because, there's definitely. A sadness, gratitude and this sadness go. They kind of almost they. They go along together and alive, and it's come through to my generation to in a way, yeah! Then late in his life Claude Allen decided to revisit the family's past. To find. The families are collection that had been lost in the desperate escape Germany. What do you think motivated him? But was his. How would he expressed his desire to pursue these claims without sending dramatic? It's just I know that my father all throughout his life. To some degree, maybe within his psyche, or he struggled with the fact that the family had had to leave Europe. It was like a baseline in his life. That! Has Been this massive disruption and And it just carried this sense of loss. It started to start the loss of HEDVIG. That would be the first loss he could understand because it was a loved grandmother, the one who gave him who doted on him from the stories and I thought he was the basin as And He was closer to his. He was to his own mother. So, Claude Allen, sat down and went through his grandmother's papers, trying to reconstruct what art works. She and her family had owned in the years before the war and where they had ended up. Some of the works had vanished. Others were plain sight. You can find if you for yourself if you spend a few hours poking around the Internet. There's a Paul Gauguin sold by Hedwig sister-in-law in one, thousand, nine, thirty, eight as she to fled Frankfurt. That painting ended up at the Toledo Museum of art in Ohio. Family had sold the Gauguin along with a lovely van Gogh called the diggers. The diggers ended up in the hands of a department store heir, who then gave it to the Detroit, Institute of art in the late nineteen sixties. There is a virgin and child by Lucas chronic the. From the sixteenth century, now in the University of Arizona Museum of art, then there were the four beautiful wall panels in Hedwig dining room by the prominent German landscape painter. Hans Thoma. Spring, summer winter fall. Claude! Allen couldn't find out where any of those gone. And finally there was the small modest still life acquired by HEDWIG and her husband back in the heyday of they're collecting. Vase with Carnations Vincent Van Gogh. Eighteen eighty six. I wasn't alive during heavy lifetime, I wasn't even born on both for another quarter of a century even more, but she was very much. A part of our lives, we should talk about constantly and very fondly and you know. Her life was all around us in some way. As Claude Allen Begin his investigation into headwinds lost our collections other Holocaust survivors. Families started to do the same thing. There conferences laws passed Europe in particular, had a growing movement to reconsider the status of art sold last or confiscated during the war, and it seemed that the world was changing and arrested might be possible. My father was very excited and hopeful deeply hopeful about it whilst I had every different reaction. I was a young adult at the time. I was almost sort of like I. Let's don't get your hopes up. Don't go there. It's it's. It's just going to bring up I. Think was because I thought it was going to bring up. All these? Feelings that I knew it down there, but I didn't know what they were. And it's it's very. It's actually. For. Someone who's third generation is still very confronting, and that's actually. Surprises may still continues to surprise me. I never met Hedvig of why do I feel like this, but I do it is very much a part of me. And it's almost inexplicable it's. I'm sort of trying to interrogated a little bit more now. Because I have to face some of these things. Some of these situations with the paintings. And what to do with the legacy? I think it's a really interesting important point because it was when your father precedes these claims, it's not just about the art it's about. Healing Oh? Yeah, absolutely, it's not necessarily about material possessions and material possessions. kind of like the Markelle It's all everything orients itself around, but it's not actually what this is. Really all about. The art is a symbol. Important to understand what Claude Allen was up against in his attempt to locate his grandmother's last art. Collection. Salami a digression about a man named Charles Venable. Some years ago, venable was named director of the Speed Art Museum in Louisville Kentucky. It was his first director's job, and he decided to begin by taking a close look at the museum's collection as started with our works on paper collection where we were just GonNa, get an ex you know. Get some expertise in and we were look at every single work on paper. To help him venable brought in a former curator from the Cleveland Museum of Art, which has one of the country's best collections of works on paper. By the time we went through everything she said you have about fifty exceptional pieces out of how many wouldn't a huge collection, but we probably had. Couple thousand. Os is and then then she sit in. Here's another group that are nice, but in the end it was like you should just get rid of all of these. Keep fifty good ones. The pluses the rest venables sold at auction. If I'd ask you before that process began in Louisville. What percentage plus what would you have, said some paper, not my curatorial area, but nevertheless I would have said you know. You have to have half of them I suppose be exceptional works of art. Or why would you have taken? Venable next became the director of the Indianapolis Museum of art, or as it is now known Newfield. When he arrived, the museum had fifty five thousand objects. It was adding close to a thousand new objects a year, and was on the verge of building a multi million dollar storage facility to house its ever expanding collection. And Venables main thought was what if Indianapolis was like Louisville and much of the stuff they were storing at such great expense wasn't worth keeping, so he and his curator's at new fields began combing through every one of the objects in the museum's collection. They assigned each artwork a grade. A. Was for something that any museum in the world would want. These are things that made sense for Indianapolis to have his collection seize. Were Dis didn't belong at all. The good stuff and bad stuff were easy to identify, but it took years to figure out the BS and CS. The curator's did tons of research debate it and kept going piece by piece. Art. Collection is now about. Forty four thousand works of art. down from fifty, five, fifty, five thousand. But Venables still not finished right now. Our collection based on six years of ranking is about thirty three percent as So the right there, those are going nowhere. So there's you know thousands of works of art, and then clearly we would want a good number of bees of works that we couldn't replace or they're. They're considered totally worthy to be in the gallery for one reason or not, but if you take just the seas and the rest of our dis, you know there's probably I'm guessing will be. Twenty five thirty thousand works earn. They have thousands more ago to be auctioned off. We're giving away. We had huge hole big holdings in contemporary glass. We don't need four hundred pieces in storage, so we gave one hundred pieces of contemporary glass to the Glick Center for Glass at ball. State University in Muncie Indiana, so students could learn technique from them. Now, if you listen to the previous episode, you know that no one does this in the museum world. No one tries to get smaller. No one gives things away like that certainly not on the scale. That venable is doing in Indiana. Because most art museums are like Smog Dragon. They're hoarders. Deepen, their layers fiercely guarding their treasures. Here's an actual headline from Art News. One of the major publications of the art world quote is Charles Venable Democratizing a great art museum in Indianapolis or destroying it. Are you kind of marine? The Marie Condo? Is Your. Is Your apartment like minimalist? You get rid of old clothes. No longer wear them. Does this carry over to your private life? Why not particularly I mean? My husband is much more than eat. Nick, who would say I'M GONNA? Go through my closet and get rid of all these things whereas I'm saying I. Will I just love that shirt? And it might hanging my closet for you know years years it could be ten years old. She was even worse. But that's not running an art museum. Charles Venable is different, not because he some kind of weird neat nick. He different because he sees the problem, his profession has and he's figured out a way to do something about it. I asked Randy Frost about what it takes to convince a hoarder to thin their collection. He's psychologist. We met in the last episode. Who Studies Hoarding? He told me that with orders. The first step is talking about the object, so you're seeing in this case, the act of forcing someone to. Conceive and verbalize their attached to the object helps them get rid of yes shatters the bond someway or well I think it puts their attachments. into the context of the values of their life, because we focus on values, what is it that you value in your life what you want your life to be like? And once you start talking about this and have these this set of ideas about value and where you WanNa, go and your life together. It changes the the valence of the object. This is what Charles. Venable and his curator's were doing in Indianapolis as they work their way through the collection. Changing the valence of the objects they were asking. What is it that we value as a museum? Is this object consistent with those values? Acquiring art costs money. The is a nonprofit with a mandate to serve the people of Indiana. Venable doesn't see how collecting more and more stuff that the public will never see not to mention spending. Millions of dollars to warehouse at somewhere is consistent without responsibility. You know you need more conservatives. You need more art handlers. You need more registrars. You need bigger computer systems. If you ask. Charles Venable to give up a work of art for some broader larger reason, he could do it. It, because he's developed a system for giving things up, so I asked him theoretically about how he and his curator's is might evaluate vase with carnations if it were in their collection, so there's a lot is famous artist as you could find, but it's very much a minor work of that artist. Is that not? Is that an ao not in a mean, not knowing that particular painting I'm just thinking as a as an abstract question. Same artists minor work. We wouldn't call that a day. We would get. We would give it a little bump, because by then go a very famous artist, but it wouldn't make an aide. Just because it had his name on it, it would. It would be a minor work by that artist, and then the questions we would ask is. Are we doing? A great artist by Van Gogh in many ways change the course of a Western art history. Are we doing his legacy and his work. A good deed by showing A. Pre, minor. Mediocre work. In a great institution. And particularly institution that has much better works by Van, Gogh. You know where you can show an a plus at a place like Detroit. Why? Why would you bother with a minor thing if we were offered a painting like that, we would. If somebody wanted we wouldn't buy it for sure. And if somebody wanted to give it to us, we would say well. This is not something that's right to go on our walls. If you WANNA, give it to us, or are you willing to let a sell it and then bring bring the money back to the collection by something that your name can go. Charles Venable dept a changing the valence of the objects in his possession. He can give things up, but he's the exception to rest of the art. World is still in the grip of their compulsion. As the world slowly begins to be open nexus once again looks to people for Inspiration asking a simple question. It's been on everyone's mind. Of all the places looking forward to? Where we go, I. Really be familiar streets, but perhaps unknown roads. Cruising Down Grand Boulevards. Exploring lanes along the coast. Long interstate highway. Journey. Starts in the main drag ends off. Wherever you go. His Alexis. Tomorrow or even next month whenever you're ready, next is will welcome you back with exceptional offers unexceptional vehicles. Find out all the ways Alexis Yours. TAXES DOT COM. Experience Amazing. Alexa Steele. So back to Claude. Who has a child fled Europe with his family. About fifteen years ago, Allen started asking the museums holding hedwig art to do a version of what Charles Venable at Indianapolis or what Randy Frost tries to teach hoarders. To break their attachment to a specific object by asking a broader question about its relationship to their own values. In essence, all in told the museums Mike Grandmother and her family sold some of their prized possessions in a moment of desperation and panic. To help finance their escape from certain death. Are you sure you feel right about owning it an object with that kind of history. Allen started with the Gauguin Street into Haiti and the Van Gogh the diggers that were once owned by Hedwig, brother and sister-in-law. All in a group of his relatives approached the Toledo Museum and the Detroit. Institute of art with their requests. The family was forced to give these paintings up under duress in nineteen, thirty eight. Could they get back. And what happened? The two museums. And sued the all it's. That was in order to, and this is one of those wonderful legal euphemisms. Quiet the title to the painting. And when the case went to court the museums, one on the narrow grounds, the statute of limitations had expired. According to the Federal Court, in Detroit, the case would have been valid only if they had filed a claim for the diggers. Three years of when the painting was for sold. It was sold in nineteen thirty eight, so they needed to ask for back by nineteen forty one. When those members of the family who had not managed to flee for their lives were sitting in concentration camps. Allen had asked museums to consider the morality of their attachments. They responded by pointing to the legality of their attachments. They don't WanNa. Make this about values. No hoarder would. Consider the story of another Van Gogh. A spectacular painting called the night cafe. It was once owned by a Russian collector. The Bolsheviks seized it when they took power in one, thousand, nine, hundred nine. It's worth hundreds millions today later it was sold by the Soviets to the air to the singer sewing machine fortune. The Soviets collected a huge profit. The air later willed it to Yale University Art Museum. Then, the original owners descendant came together and said that painting was stolen from my great-grandfather. Did y'all. Give it back of course. They soothe the great grandson and one. There is a Picasso and the. Metropolitan, museum in New York called the actor worth well over one hundred million dollars. It had been owned by Paul and Alice left man, a Jewish couple in Cologne Germany who fled for Italy in nineteen, thirty seven sound familiar. They sold the painting to pay for their escape. Their great granny sued the Mat to get it back saying that it was given up under duress. The court. Ruled in favor of the met. The judge in the case said that the left men's weren't technically duress because duress for the purposes of the law requires quote, fear induced by a specific and concrete threat of harm, purposefully presented by its author to extort the victim's consent. In other words in order for the Left wants to get their Picasso back and official in the Nazi party would have had to come to them. In one, thousand, nine, hundred seven, put a gun directly to their head and say Sell Me Your Picasso. And because the fascist shows to be a touch more subtle in their methods of extortion. That painting still hangs today on the walls of the met. And Vase with carnations. There's a legal loophole in that case as well head gave it to an art dealer in nineteen, thirty eight, but that was to sell on consignment, and the art dealer took it to new. York and didn't get around to selling it until after the war was over. HEDWIG may have given up under duress of the Nazi threat, but it wasn't sold under the duress of the Nazi threat. Claude. Had No legal claim to vase with carnations just. Plain And moral claims matched up against the compulsions of the order. Don't amount to much. You. In the end, it was not a museum that returned any piece of Hedwig original art collection. It was packaged goods company one that sells flour, biscuits and beer. The other group based three hours north of Frankfurt the kraft foods of Germany. The company's former CEO Rudolf. Ker An extensive art collection. The company did a providence check of his paintings, and they discovered that in nineteen, fifty four Rudolph had bought one of the four Hans. Wall paintings that once hung in head weeks living room. A large canvas of children dancing around a blooming tree when they out of the Blue Your father here's. That wanted his beloved grandmothers paintings coming back. Yeah, it's a really hit him to the core. The did not know the whereabouts of the painting. I'm really now from the short statement released by the group after they contacted the Allens. The company advised them that the painting was in its possession, and that it wished to return it to them on moral grounds. The heirs have gratefully accepted. Remember, can you describe what what happened? When he first, I would have cried. Yeah he was quite emotional and he was quite emotional about. This aspect and we had several conversations I read, and and he would cry nearly every single time. Yeah Yeah Yeah is it a beautiful painting? Yes, yeah, it is. It's a beautiful painting, but it also. Starts to complete. The circle within our family. The stories we would tell because. Hedvig had a a room where the they hounds Toma Works. It was a dining room and they were painted around the room and. Hans Homma I think was one of the oddest. She loved the most so to have. A worker turned was was it was like almost a completing of the circle and Yeah, it was. It was deeply meaningful. Especially to my father. Claude Ellen died shortly after his grandmother's painting was returned. As with carnations, it's still in Detroit. The ORLANDS are not ceiling claims to that painting. They know the never win. Is the painting currently? Is it now on display, or is it still in storage? Where is it now in the? In a museum it's on display is being on display and. It was recently. Featuring an exhibition in. The Barberini. Gallery post them next to Berlin. About Benghazi Felix. The Detroit Institute of art is in Midtown Detroit across Woodward Avenue from the main branch of the Public Library. A, beautiful building with an extraordinary collection. If you get a chance, go and see vase with carnations. And if you'd like it, stop by the Gift Shop. Pick up a pair of vase with Canadian socks for nineteen ninety-five one size fits all and vase with clinicians aloe so per sixty, nine, hundred five in a little round tin. Would van goghs carnations on the cover. But. Don't spend too much time thinking about the painting. The painting is the macguffin. Think about where it came from and what it stands for. And, then do me a favor when you leave. Put a note in the suggestion box. I have seen vase with carnations. It doesn't belong here. Issues history is produced by Neil Bell and Leeming stew with Jacob Smith. Halloween's Lytton and ANA name our editors Julia Barton, original, scoring by Louis, Kara mastering by flawn Williams fact, checking by Beth, Johnson and special thanks to the Pushkin crew had Fain Carly MiG Laurie Maya chaotic, Mega Taylor Jason, Gambrill and of course L. Hefei. Jacob Weisberg. I'm global.

Van Gogh Detroit Frankfurt Charles Venable Claude Allen Venables Europe Indianapolis Paris director Claude Germany Detroit Institute of Art Art Museums Hollywood Carnations Vincent Van Gogh Van Jacob Smith NEW YORK Kirk Douglas
Bonus Bugle - Swine Flu, Kerala, Adverts

The Bugle

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Bonus Bugle - Swine Flu, Kerala, Adverts

"Bugle audio newspaper for Visual World. Buglers and welcome to bugle issue. Four thousand one hundred fifty three some episode II for our bike it's stump Andy's sman and we are having a week off full blown bugling this week because I if I talk about the Vars for a week. I'm hoping it will just go away. Be Lost weeks live bugle? Livestream live over on my so much that it cut into my writing time for this week's show and see because it was written in the stalls has indeed all things if you have a powerful enough telescope. That's what a bundle of audio newspap- Peres delights. We have for you. Instead we have classic material from the Bugle Archives Cody from another dimension. Courtesy of all parallel universe system caused the loss post lies about a premium voluntary subscribers and more bits from last week's live show and because it is still lockdown another quiz. Yes before we join Alice. Fraser the post to find out what has been going on here but also elsewhere Because you all loved the bugle excessive multiple choice quiz so much lost week I'm giving you even more quicktime this week. Now some of you might not like it cusack and you say but these are less excessively multiple choice and they are also on the sainted holy issue of sports now in the last few weeks. I've co hosted a couple of live charity. Sports quizzes online for the wonderful muscular dystrophy. Uk charity to them. If you can in the second of these quizzes Loss Week. They made the mistake of allowing me to settle round of questions. Of course if I had known me better they would have been fully aware that I cannot be trusted with this level of responsibility in case you did not take part in that cuisine. Statistically it is almost one hundred percent certain that you did not take part in that quiz. You'll receive all five questions from my sporting curiosities round interspersed through this week's sub episode Roger Answers down on a literal or metaphorical piece of paper. And I'll give you the correct answers at the end of today's show. All of these questions have a genuine factual provable. Truthful answer honest question one. We'll know the Olympics is the absolute pinnacle of Sports. Unless you prefer other sports and also that some of the sports in the Olympics are completely not ridiculous mentioning now sports. You know who you are drunk. Roman what might anyway question one in sporting curiosities quiz which of the following has never been an event at the Summer Olympics. A ICE HOCKEY B. Halsey long jump see whacking people with sticks de military patrol a sculpture F- cricket all G Shooting Pigeons until that date. So that's question one. Do think about that. All the on says will come at the end of the case and whilst you think about your to question one. Let's hear a couple of choice chunks from the last post. The daily work imaginative wonder with which Alice? Fraser has been regaling at least two parallel universes throughout this year. A couple of excerpts for you now featuring alleged mutiny and will anderson your ad section now because sometimes it's hard to feel like you have a legacy but buying stuff is as good. A channel to immortality is anything else and this episode of the podcast is brought to you by a whole glass of water. Just kidding half a glass of water whether you're an optimist or pessimist be a half a glass of water kind of person reduce spillage and increase satisfaction with half glass of water half a glass all class and a new novel is out by self published Romance Maven and online Bestseller Dancy Lagarde. The Dragon Look the Dragon. Lords ladies the fifteenth in La God's groundbreaking fantasy romance detective Thriller Series with a Supernatural Twist. Bolivian is a ruthless mercenary. The bastard son of the Dragon King proving himself to his estranged father by running merchant caravans through the wild desert wastes of the blighted quadrant. He's dragging cunning says him well in the cutthroat trade cities of Sir the woman but his human half cut help hungering for more settled life and a maiden of his own cell. Alexandra is an orphaned. Hilo of one of the recently demolished which tribes traveling across the blighted quadrant to claim her inheritance from her aunt. The sexy sinister feminist witch crane trained as an assassin on SPEC by wondering assassin who was adopted by her which tribe Selig's Andhra prefers to use her skills for healing. But sometimes it goes just got to become a whirlwind of graceful death when her caravan is set upon in the desert by phonetics seeking. The death of the witch Queen's air. She's the only survivor which is basically the opposite of what the fanatics would going for protected by a magic amulet. She's all alone in the desert with nowhere to go until Balenciaga's caravan picks her up and saves her life lengthy broodingly reluctant to bring on a useless extra mouth in his economically. Viable caravan but sell Alexandra. Sandra promises to exchange healing and assassination services for passage through the desert. She wants to be annoyed by his mercenary ruthlessness but she's drawn to his brooding masculinity and he's unusually high temperature when he falls ill from aware when he falls ill from a rare blighted quadrant dragon. Fever she uncovers his dragon secret and draws him back from the brink of death with the only cure from dragon fever which is having sex. They should when they reach the trade cities of Sorrento but Valenciennes Dragon has bonded with Alexander and he promises to protect her on her way to a feminist. Which aren't what will happen to their burgeoning romance when he finds out that Selig. Sandra is the which Queens Air Will the sinister feminist witch queen ever accept such a manly dragon. Man as Selig Zana's consort. Who Will they assess an along the way how many pages can seen take find out in the Dragon? Lords lady available now only by the light of the desert mood and that's had section for today a lost post. Now it's time for your top feature section in the weekend magazine. Top Feature Section. Meet and results in your. I'll meet correspondent was happening in the world of the meat while meets has been affected by The Corona virus outbreak as much as Any other form of food are people still still eating it. not easing and I going to stop Stop eating it and Meet of course. It's been interesting times of meat. The meat industry's been under a lot of pressure to to Well I mean. Animals getting increasingly irritated by being the victims of the meets are the meat industry supporters in the in the human communities. Let you know kind of alternatives vegan meat or Vegetables as is also known But southern meat industry has been fighting for survival in I had a big coup this week when the Queen who is of course patron of the British animals association alongside many other. Things didn't of read messages to the nation on just sat at a table napkin tucked into a color wolfing down a plate of chicken nuggets with a big loved. Royal Hands Whilst boiling the camera. Before saying go so could and wiping away a squish of catch out from Chin Cushy keeps a bottle in her crown. The crown camouflage is a bottle of Ketchup. Which is an old royal tradition? It used to be flag blood. Which the Mongols always keeping the crown just in case To fake their own death escaping actually assassinated back in the olden times. I'm so Meat is Well having to adapt to changed global economy people change parties still no news on an official relaxation the various religious laws on mates regarding the slaughter preparation gobbling of of meat. I am hearing on Rumors however the leaders of least three of the world's top religions are in official discussions with The renowned diety who of course runs various apparently competing franchises like the ruthless entrepreneur. He's always been and there are rumors are. I'm hearing that the Almighty may soon say he is quote not actually that fast any more about people eating things that were dodgy thousands of years ago in a hot climate so This could be an exciting development. Four four four meet in particular disappointingly. However this won't be backdated so of still got hell of law. Bacon sandwiches to account for clearly a lot of arguments about meet ethics Around at the moment and The pendulum swinging back. Because for a long time there's been The idea that you try to make farming a little more humane and kind to the animals but is now swinging back in favour of brutally intensive battery farming and life lifetime of cruelty to these animals. Because then if you think about it we'll have to happen to an animal to become a meat. I. I'm not entirely sure of the process and the a key of it. That's not really. Oh Oh no holidays. So many ought don't think about it So the thing is if you intentionally fell from creatures In horrible conditions. Then the Abitur actually become a sweet release from suffering rather than if you if you abide by animal welfare and you get a lovely live gambling around in the fields and then suddenly we off you. Go Hello Mr Bulk on. That has a harrowingly abrupt and merciless curtailing of a lovely existence. Which is in many ways worse? Would you say Shivani not probably no no? So you know this. As with any ethical argument that there are many many many many sides to that stats multi-facetted Coin Lost Post. Now it's time for your top story. Your top story today. Advertising News. We'll Bradenton your advertising correspondent. What's happening in the world of advertising right now? I must correct you there. Ls unfortunately while you were going to those ads. And I'd why you're absolutely one of the leading podcast when it comes to integration of advertising into the point constantly. Remind you very much in the industry for that The more ads the bed. That's what we say but I've actually taken that time to rebrand myself as the Ad Sassan so I am now officially the ads. And that is the only way I can be referred to for the rest of the You can never miss a branding opportunity. And you've got to be the first person there to register that domain and that is actually very appropriate to what we're gonNA talk about heat to dialyse because these being saying at the moment you talk about half a glass of water. Well we more your commitment to the all the properties Papa Glass of water in fact when you started I talking about half a glass of water. I was working on the full glass of water account and they did not think that that would be rocked by your advertisements. At the time people were like. Why would somebody have half a glass of water when you can have a full glass of water but then suddenly clauses of water full glasses of water? We saw a messy drop in people drinking full glasses of water and we thought well. Maybe it's just people with bigger glasses drinking the same amount of water but it was not it. Was people drinking half a glass of water and we were actually GONNA start a smear campaign against you to take you down to say you anti the coronavirus. Because Hoffa gloss awarded was clearly not enough to wash your hands for twenty seconds. We literally had a file on you full of your do but unfortunately was in a USB thumb drive and then someone dropped that usb thumb drive into half a glass of water. I heard. Of course I couldn't speak directly to that. That would have nothing to do with me personally. Just the spokesperson Okay today's advertising us. That's what I'm here to tell you about. Today's advertising well. Today's Advertising News. Is that the stock markets are falling and some predicted a tough talk for advertising. But I'm he to tell you to take stock markets. How full approach now. Lsu Nov Climb Mount Everest many times. I've been to the top. The summited Mt Everest more times than any other human being The last climbed Everest like climbed with activated clinch. And I'll tell you a secret I like to climb with people who was substantially shorter the me because that way when I reached the summit I still have a slightly bitter view and that makes me feel powerful. Funny Story Peyton do it. But I convinced him. We will shooting something for the final series of game of thrones. He was pretty mad when he folded solo the final series. And it wasn't in day but I was happy because I'd managed to do a deal with the produce and starbucks to sleep in a Coffee Cup and all the way to the bank a want revealed the size of the deal did there but let's say was Vinci. Sorry why I tell you that stories. One Day pated deeply climbed on the shoulders Sherpa and he was higher than me and in that moment I saw listen for the world that sometimes by small because they can stand on the shoulder of giants so this is the time for the advertising industry. This is the time for us. In the advertising industry to lane in when it comes to a pandemic. It's all about timing. You've got to know what to immediately stockpile you've gotTa know and for me it was Ip intellectual property. That's what you've gotTA stockpile immediately. I immediately trademark advertising terms. Where all in this together in these difficult times and I also got in these troubled times in these challenging times and in these uncertain times I did miss out on unprecedented but in my defence it was an unprecedented rush on unprecedented. Do Subscribe to the lost post for a daily dose of Phrase Irian Phraseology and other worldly wonders time now for question to in all sporting curiosities quiz the night to February nineteen sixty three. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that. That was a day the Boeing seven. Two seven made its first flight or you might be more likely to know that if you are a rocket scientist you much picked it up in background reading butts on that Day Ninety. February one thousand nine hundred sixty. Something happened in a men's five nations rugby match not happening any men's five or six nations match ever since what was that thing was a a nil nil. Draw be the referee came from the home country There was an Irish referee at the loss of matter. Home-country referee and I five or six nations game. See a drop goal when you have to the ball on the ground kicking out over the posts. scored full points since being reduced to three was it. D- All fall starting props for those unfamiliar with rugby. They are the so. We say sizable gentlemen. Who generally don't move. At high-speed bought can wrestle rhinoceros ground. All four of those starting props scored a try this. The last time that happened. Was it a the last time? They had shirts fee skins in an international rugby match Both teams turned up With shirts having running the wash to kind of light green color answer they played shirts against skins all F. It was the last time a live animal was used as the bowl. A small water called Ian from Dublin. Zoo was the unlucky creature on that occasion after certain protests and injuries. That's tradition who's quietly shelved so that's question to what do you think about your answer to question two. Let's go back in time now. as you would know if you are a student of history history is full of history repeating history and whilst the virus that has been having the shit out of everything. This year is a new. An unusually crafty diseases like it had been existence evidence. Pandora got peckish and peaked her lunchbox all those years ago and back in issue. Seventy two of the bugle eleven salting years ago would you believe John. Oliver and I reported exclusively on another bout of Viral Shenanigans Thompson. This week old McDonald pig now. Oh McDonald's Day yes it swine flu in this emergency vehicle to injected straight into the as an antidote. But it's not exactly not an antidote data. Pigs Andy so longer approval player in the news have taken center stage this week as threatened to wipe out the human right. We can't say we weren't warned on George. Joulwan always said that they were snout little Boston's two legs. Good forelegs bad. He pretty much wrote a whole book. About how you keep an eye on pigs. At least that's what I took from it. I'm pretty sure we. Several masterpiece was based around the thesis. Never Trust a pig as are relative relatively criminally underappreciated English exam. Yup It's H One n one back or swine flu or pig flu or piggy flu or at you to give it. Its various different names spreading. I'm a concern around the World John but also spreading delights across Israel and the Jewish world. Were just like me. They've all spent most of the week punch in the out saying say your rights all along Dotty dotty animals. The has been control coal. The virus initially. It was called swine flu then pink flu than of Mexican flip. Choose to the port connection again. This virus was not culture the AU called novel flew for reasons. Best known to themselves and France even opted to call it. North American flew off site Frenchies. That is just lazy outdated anti-americanism you cannot be a standard French flu. But then called. Freedom flew over here so soccer well a bomber calls it h one n one influenza. I. He's always had a way with words so poetic so uplifting we'll hear some of the headlines from the pipes this week maxine no And looking at the pictures all the veterans wandering around Mosques Seco and no sir pandemic odium. Those clearly weren't headlines but I could have beaten US important thing but the end of the week the World Health Organization itself. I announced that it would stop using the term swine flu to prevent confusion over the danger posed by pigs a spokesman said rather than cooling this. We're going to stay the technical scientific name. H One n one influenza right now. Is this in response to potential pig. Vigilante attacks other gangs roaming the streets are not looking for white. Would pigs farmers doing drive-by shootings tractors on farms spraying the side of stories with bullets a Wednesday Egypt? started slaughtering. It's roughly three hundred thousand pigs. Despite soins explicitly saying that the virus was not passed on by eating pork. Not a good time and they put a stop developing a pretty convincing cow impression in the next few days. He's to be honest even if there was a risk. Eighteen pink jealousies. I Love Bacon. Andy I don't guess of never before really had a barometer to gauge. Just how much viking? But now do all of so much. I'm willing to risk death. I want to play bike and roulette with every joint. Yeah the flu kicked off like so many things in Mexico and also so many things from Mexico. It has now sneaked across the border into America. Do well shall we. Won't you? Paul Saltzman Paul. Limbaugh you looking. For a high profile provocative talk show ever hear court few gaps in the DORIC. That's a yellow card. Well I've ahead. John People have been reacting with similar concern at the certain prospect of Paisley wiping out humanity. In fact just yesterday. I should've gone my local supermarket standing next to the bike encounter and booing for about half an hour. So I think you might want hades. I Talk Cool joke you. Hi My wife's been fairly for a couple of days so she went to the doctor influenza. Well did it voice. Her to seek professional medical opinion but in the end was her own choice. Pig flu how dare you say that about my wife No? She got the train racing such unusual areas. I think thanks Mike. I'll take that as a compliment. Well I'm pretty sure it wasn't one lead. The world is on pandemic level face five. Now that doesn't sound too bad until the scale only goes up to face six. That is one a from the highest level available which would indicate I full pandemic but still not a pandemic not a pandemic now. It's been hard to accurately judge exactly how many cases of swine flu. They're all due to the fact that everyone the cuff now thinks they've got it. It's been a great week for panicked overreactions reactions on Wednesday. The whol kind that far from the more than one hundred fifty one flu deaths that in fact being officially on seven people have been quick to point the swine. Flu Finger anyone he mike. The mistake of dying in the low seventies Terry died. I think it was swine flu. What are you talking about Terry was hit by a bus on the sworn flew? Probably got in first then. The bus got involved. Facts always on the subway this week. Which incidentally was noticeably restful and Agai coughed a woman opposite nervously. Put a handkerchief over mouth the soldiers and said L. Lady. I don't have pig flu. I don't think she was fully convinced. Also he might have had take flu but he also didn't have any social skills is one of the symptoms. Apparently our over. There you go. That was nothing next to will happen to Baltimore. International Airport when an inbound flight from Mexico radioed ahead that two passengers on board had suspected swine. Flu Apparently had fevers sick to their stomachs. The fire rescue departments ambulances scrambled to make the plane on the runway but after careful examination as the two men had just had too much to drink drunk. Cal One everybody. We have got to come down. He's one of the symptoms of swarm. Flew stinking tecate singing Lebombo itself of Your Voice. Because I'll come down with a spotless. One flew in a karaoke balls. So how much should we be? Panicking the World Health Organization current advises I level five flop which is still well short of the top level six screaming hysterical frenzy but more serious than their level for frown. The level five flap. Requests People's take speculative and useless precautions like wearing a home made mask cancelling holidays to countries beginning with them and praying and also to call an ambulance whenever they feel an unscheduled itch. In Britain The government claims it has enough The Tamiflu vaccines to treat eighty percent of the population. Oh now sounds like a Guy. National Guy with musical chairs. Well jody say that. Well that is basically England covered. Some of you know. According to the famously non-existent British constitution medicine. This distributed strictly by alphabetical order of country. I'm sorry wiles is not looking good for you but flu was largely Monica with nothing on yours. Pig flu has already infected a good many people around the world. I guess he's tells us the pigs atop the birds and the big result in the battle in the farmyard. They're bragging rights for team. Pull this station on. The most important thing to do is not to mention the nine thousand nine hundred influence or epidemic. That killed two tons of money people as the first World War and affect around half of the world's population. Because it was just go on most of those people would have been dead by now anyway. So let's brought over it as if it never happened. Well also if you're going to attach your country to the flu and the YOU'VE GOTTA go Spanish maximizing body near after the Spanish. Do not mess around. Hoping does rice. John is a question is what is the point of viruses. Yup I just don't seem to have anything positive to contribute to me. Artists don't see why they don't just go for themselves that just little invisible terrorists to me and not changing more Wesley's to do anything about it. Like cannot be seen to negotiate with viruses so they should not treat anyone. We have to stand up for ourselves as Muhammad Ali modest set. If he'd been fighting for a well title you flew. He had a way with words as well. Eleven years ago. Now when things like normality and sport still existed sport did he say yes. It's quick question three now. What's unusual double sporting feet links? The following four Sportsman Rugby League legend and Human Bulldozer. Lesley Vainikolo New Zealand crooked Martin Donnelly score a double century at Lord's in a test match in nineteen forty nine. No less another rugby player. Halloween's premiership winning. Hyun from Granite Immovable Leviathan Flanker Maury Fa'asavalu and the Welsh Rugby Union scrum-half on Second World War Hero Morris Turnbull what links those for Spoils Plaza I. They all had both sibling. And a spouse who also played international sport be each of them made his international debut and his final international appearance on his birthday. See All played for England at one sport but against England in another sport de all's at a national record during a match only to see teammate surpass it before the end of that match Oh e all of them both discovered a new chemical element and had an affair with a member of the royal family and or a KGB agent. Never touch pure volume with your bare hands. It is lethally radioactive. And why did modern? Donnelly never play international cricket. Again after nine hundred and forty-nine perhaps augur or even Princess Margaret could explain moving on. Now we're going back in time once more but just a week back in time. This time to the live Bugle livestream live with Alice. And Kumar and here are some more choice mates from that Carol has been a notable success story in in many ways and particularly in this this This crisis some things in large part. It's Health Minister K J shy larger. Who is a former science teacher? And she's been role more successful than other people who've been trying to control avars So it sounds having a former science teacher involved is better than having a Often sacked for dishonesty former journalist or former cereal bankrupt. Tv Mega toolan proud sexual assault fan. There must be something in that. There's a small sample size. We can't drool conclusion but it tells me more about the The Carolina has been so much more successful than Britain for example the Mullaly family. What's up groups have been in permanent meltdown? This week is absolutely astonishing. Stuff I've got to be real with you. It has been a spicy couple of years for sub with mind background. Because obviously I'm a British man so I spent the last few years watching by country do the geopolitical equivalent of shitting. It's pans and they're not cleaning itself up the instead. Doing some very vigorous squat thrusts and my family is from India. And that's a country that is currently run by government who claimed to be incredibly Hindu and yet when it comes to the nation's Muslim population they seem to have no problem in having series breath however my family. Add it comes from. The State of Carolina says small state in the south of the country although small needs to be in context of a country with a billion people because character is a small state and house. Thirty five million people in it okay. So but it started an amazing job of handling this boy and partly. That's because a few years ago the state was exposed to the Nipah virus which was a a really virulent pandemic that and so the infrastructure that was put in place then has actually served them pretty well but a lot of it as you say is coming down to the health minister. Kk Shyla Because she acted very proactively in January when the first cases were coming through the news from China Jackson Berry very decisively a put in place policies track and trace and four months later at Carol only has fit five hundred twenty four cases of Covid Nineteen with four debts and SOFA. No community transmission so just to put that in context. I is a state of thirty five million people. Gdp per capita of two thousand. Two hundred if you compare that to the UK it is. I believe this is a scientific term. A lot better. I think that yeah. I think I'm pronouncing pornography of those victories right and they control room. They instructed the medical in the fourteen districts to do the same and by the time the first case of Roy they had such sophisticated track and trace measures in place the case that arrived fire flight from Wuhan they. They already knew that it was arriving. Essentially so it's absolutely astonishing stuff and should cake Charlotte sixty three year old health minister and has attracted a lot of new nicknames in recent weeks including the corona virus slayer which is a buffy review. I think we're all looking for my favorite one rockstar. Health Minister and I cannot tell the extent to which most care shit of all time prides itself on having extremely high literacy rate is obsessed with science. I very much the black sheep not just of my family but my family's entire home state smack buying in the middle of careless personal brand that the closest thing we could produce to a rock star is an incredibly smart and successful health minister so from reading between the lines. You're saying that's Advanced preparation cool-headed decision. Making and you take the advice to Test Track and trace Mister is slightly better than ignoring official recommendations and not acting on report. Saying you've got your unprepared for this kind of crisis. Yeah it's it's it's actually a lot better than Shaking hands the bare minimum. If people who have rotavirus let's remember. The handshake was the minimum almost like anything else. I'm just remind to give Boris Johnson's track record and his number but he definitely shook hands and also it's better than pursuing a policy of touching horses at Cheltenham believed into hoping to another light. People lifetime live in June and also a bugle live quiz best. Keep them separate. I found an on the subjects of quizzes as question. Four on its own. Cricket universally acknowledged as the greatest thing in the universe. Mike quick question for you. Buglers engine cricketer Sunil vowel on did what but without also doing what so. He did a thing without doing another thing. That's usually associated with doing that thing. So did he play every single match for an entire season for Delhi in the Indian Ranji trophy competition without ever once batting or bowling. And if you're not follower of cricket just take a guess while those all is it be. He's the only player to have scored a first class century without hitting a single boundary. Ninety three singles. Tutus and a three see. He won the World Cup but never played international cricket in his entire career day he was out of a match in an international game in which he was actually playing. He came on as a substitute fielder took three catches to them. One handed Dr. It had run out with a throw from the boundary for the final hour rails for many of you. These just sounds Or E E captain India without existing on India's first tour of England in the nineteen thirties those disputes between the different cricketing authorities from the different states and cities of India. Who could agree on who should be a leader of the team? So compromise was reached whereby a fictional batsman was invented to be the official captain so always at A. B. C. D. or e. And in fact we're going straight onto our final question question five baseball for our American listeners. Now inundate an alibi. School founded in two thousand and three Chicago Cubs Fan. Steve Bartman leant over from his seat to try to catch what he thought. Sorry from triggering. Some of you hear what he thought was going to be a foul ball hit by Florida. Marlins Luis Castio but succeeded only into flynn from the grasp of cubs field emotions. Alu- the game turned the cubs. Who'd been on the brink of making the world series for the first time since nineteen forty-five lost then lost the deciding game seven and the chance of glory and Bartmans? Bolt being sport was horrifically scapegoated. That's why we love but what became with a fight full bowl that bomb and tried to catch a it was costing in bronze casing and presented as a memento to mollins coach. Jack mckeon off days team went onto win the world series be. It was blown up in a ceremonial explosion. The remnants might into PASTA SOULS SEE. It was fed to a Rhinoceros Chicago Zoo cubs fans paid one hundred dollars a ticket to watch the curse bull guzzled down by their local dumb od. It was taken into spice by Chicago Ball. Nasa astronaut John Grunsfeld. Who then threw it away into orbit on a space walk to suckle the world in internal shy time for you to finalize your responses to the quiz. I'll give you the correct answers in just a few minutes time off the some lies about our premium level voluntary subscribers to join him gouging. The bugle podcasts. Dot Com and click the donate by stem recently woke up with a new theory in his head about the planet Saturn. He thinks that the reason it has its trademark. Rings is not as many have assumed because it is an alien. Ufo biding his time before moving down to Earth to destroy no as many of also assumed rennick approved Brennan Sunhat. The satin used to wear as a planet in the early days of solar system was much closer to the sun but in fact because the ancient Roman God Saturn Walter known swimmer who needed rings to keep him. Afloat marks excitement abated when he remedy Neptune named after the Roman? The see also has rings surrounding. Shaw is another planetary mythology and he thinks Jupiter got his famous red spot from where it was published by. Its furious wife planet. Juno out of the latest in a string of infidelities with Jupiter's moons prompting Juno to lash out big Joe and then leave the solar system for good. Juno is last heard of circling a star in a nearby other galaxy with other planetary dati's who have also escaped controlling relationships. Santana hero has been studying. The bronte sisters and dining halls San has not only confirmed the literary siblings. Full surname was in fact breath. Gumri a not as some had suspected you but also that they were responsible for the name of the renowned dinosaur the Brontosaurus due to the structure of their novels which tended to start quite small scale than expand to a massive oversize middle and nine taper off gradually to a minimalist ending. Ricardo Villain is fascinated by the British government's so-called Cobra meetings crucial discussions of important matters that some prime ministers can be turned to if they're in the right mode a not too busy wondering how many children they've Gotten Cobra is according to official accounts an acronym ICAL of Cabinet Office Briefing Room. A but record. I was convinced that it is inferred so called because at one meeting the conservative pair and London two thousand twelve official Nebuchadnezzar Co formerly known as Olympic. Fifteen hundred meter champion Sebastian. Coe Jokingly wore a bra over his pinstripe suit and quips that he hoped it would help him keep abreast of the situation and finally Chris. Bostitch spent eight years learning to play keyboards with just one thing in mind so that he could go to his local garden centre with Harpsichord station. It next to some bright pink flowers and start playing a selection of early eighteenth century prelude and Fuchs until someone came up to him and said what on Earth. Are you doing and he reply back to the future? It was worth reminisces Chris. The manager of the gardens law so hard. He gave everyone in the shop. Free trial ended. This week's lies just time before we go for the answers to our sports quiz question. One which of the following has never been an event. At the Summer Olympics correct answer was D- military patrol a military patrol has however been an event at the Winter Olympics similar to biathlon involving cross country skiing and shooting wearing backpacks and our think hunting down a rogue enemy unit Imagine if Liam Neeson was turned into a sport. Ice Hockey was in fact event at the Nineteen Twenty Summer Olympics in Antwerp. The World Tilles no coming to sentence after of the First World War Horse. Long jump nine thousand nine hundred and Paris bring not back. Whacking people with sticks in a single was part of the fencing program in the ninety four games. Instant Louis Sculpture will art contest. Were part of many of the early modern Olympic Games. In Fact Paul. Gauguin son picked up a bronze in sculpture in nineteen twenty four fact. That is a fact log. I'm very getting is lockdown. As might be actually shows a genuine genuine facts on bought make sculpture sport again Cricket England Writing Champions from one thousand nine hundred Olympics in Paris and pigeon shooting also nineteen hundred water games. That must have been question to what happened to the last time. In an Ireland England Sur five nations game on the ninety seven hundred sixty three. The answer was a a Nel draw. Question three will unusual double feet links. Leslie Vinik Martin Donnelly Maury Fossa in Morris Tumblr. It was see they played four England in one sport and against England in another If you want the full details try the Internet Question for Indian CRICKETER. Sunil thousand did what without doing what that was see? He won the World Cup but never played international sport. He was picked as a member of India's squad in nineteen ninety-three for the Cricket World Cup and never played for neo. Four wasn't picked during the tournament. I was never selected again. Bit Harsh on the part of the Indian selectors and finally question five what happened to the Bodman Bowl from two thousand and three Wallace Cubs Fans. Pulido needs to be reminded it was blown up and made into pasta sauce. Not Maybe continue tons sports in into food. This is an exciting new dimension for all humanity. This good might lockdown a hell of a lot more entertaining. I'm going to cook some spoilt Rights if you've got all five writes in the style prize. Which is the right to tune in to next week's issue of the Bugle? In fact all you can have a on me. Don't forget to subscribe to the Lost Post and keep your ear to the ground or indeed to this podcast for details on the next life you'll livestream show on the bugle live close. Hopefully we will do in June until next week goodbye.

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Behind the eyes and in the land: What Tom Thomson saw, and what he may have missed

Ideas

54:09 min | 1 year ago

Behind the eyes and in the land: What Tom Thomson saw, and what he may have missed

"This is a CBC podcast so here we are in the high falls. Sandra's high falls Lake Portas and and out of the corner of my eye spotted this waterfall. I'm looking at right now and was like hearing a song you know saying this waterfall and just being so cure got. It's the was the inspiration for woodland waterfall by Tom Thompson. I'm Nola Allah is and this is ideas about Tom. Thompson scrambled down into the brush perched on the side of the river here and took some shots and Adam being responsible young man he it was thought maybe gone tumble and came back to help me out yeah now. What do you think it's like a song you heard before and that you love coming on the radio. There's no way to describe it other than just pure tranquility ecstasy all in one manner. Tom Thomson is legendary Canadian painter. He died mysteriously more than a century ago. At the height of his powers. His pieces are considered national icons two of them the West wind and the Jack Pine feature the loan evergreen tree standing against and within a rugged landscape. It's an image often held up as symbolic of Canada and Canadians themselves but the nation we call all Canada is undergoing fundamental change both socially and environmentally so is there something in what Tom Thomson saw and lived the week and take with us into an uncertain but likely dynamic future in this installment of ideas about Tom Thomson. We turn to his life and two hours. Here's part two of Sean Foley's Documentary Tom Thomson One Hundred Years From now about this nee very colors. Caterpillars are as one has observed very elegant and beautiful. I shall for a taste of the rest. Describe one of them my brother. Adam mm-hmm and I are standing on the banks of the Barron River in Oregon Quin Park. I'm holding forth from a book called the compleat Angler his lips and mouth somewhat somewhat yellow his is black as jet his forehead purple his feet and Hind or parts green his tail to fork and black. It was written more than three hundred and fifty years ago and we know that Tom Thomson had a copy of it with him. When he was in one thousand nine hundred twelve breath he'd read it on rainy days and clean his smoking pipes the whole body stained with a kind of red spots which run along the neck and and the shoulder blade not unlike the farm of Saint Andrew's cross and a white line drawn down his back to his tail all which add much beauty the unique to his whole body the compleat angler isn't just a fishing how to it blends nature writing with spiritual verse philosophy and recipes all framed by the conversations of a motley fishing party traveling the English countryside and as others have have several kinds turned to be several kinds of flies and vermin the spring following so this caterpillar then turns to be a painted wanted better fly. This is like just flip it open to whatever page golden the author Isaac Walton. Tim is in thrall. He also prizes eloquence as a grace in itself but this one guests ner prefers the perch and pike above the trout or any freshwater fish. He says the Germans have this proverb more wholesome from a perch of Ryan and he says the river purchase so wholesome that physicians allowed him to be eaten by wounded men or by men and and fevers or by women in child bed more wholesome than a perch of Ryan. That's how I think of you adamant. I are in the northeast corner of Algonquin Park sniffing around for signs of Tom. Thomson the Living Man in the midst of being born as an artist he was working in this area as a fire ranger in the summer of nineteen sixteen a year before his death incredible the degree to which the the this canyon fills the is. It's impossible to replicate with a camera. Just completely fills your what you have to take in the world like the panel that Tom Thompson painted of this stretch. are beautiful but it's it's interesting to one can almost imagine it being too much to handle in a way so much to represent on a panel but I mean he did it. He did it many times over. He waited all summer to get down here to spend some time and do this. In the very few letters he wrote that summer he was keen to get back to the painting painting and why not in Nineteen sixteen his brush was coaxing the best from him and from his surroundings Ogre were watching sunset or even a storm coming or going things are of fleeting and that seems to be something that he was able title to to master in it almost seems to be within your soul like it's not obscene. You know spot with exactly that that cloud there's enough of a connection to it but you make the link to that piece. David huff is the curator of collections at the Tom Thompson Memorial Art Gallery in Owen Sound. He and I are looking at four panels from Nineteen fifteen. Each one is only about eight by ten inches and in them Thompson has caught the sky the land and the water are relegated to the bottom quarter of each board the better to make room for virtuoso performances atmospheric variations on a theme in Purple White Pink Clear Blue Blue With Grey building thunderheads and brooding purple haze a lot of it has to do with his brush stroke and the way the colors are put together and our I mixes those colors and interprets brush strokes to to see that movement because they they all are alive live. I mean they're they're not. They're not static. These works would have been done relatively quick on site under the atmospheric conditions nations that he would have been working on whether the storm was coming or whether there was mosquitoes biting or whatever it was but certainly that immediacy and back quickness and back comes across in these earthworks as well we turn our attention from the quartet of sketches to a photo display the photograph of Thomson is probably from Nineteen nineteen twelve and so a little bit of a city slicker come up camping and you know having photograph taken with all of his gear ten and then that's supposed opposed to thomson at Ti Dam which is a few years later and certainly much more somebody who is now part of the park and so he fly fishing in in at this particular photograph but he's gone and and seems to be much more integrated that somebody in the park as opposed to somebody visiting the park. There's another photo a group of adults and a little child old having a snack outdoors Tom. Thomson is a spectral presence taking a drag off of a cigarette in the background. The rest of the names are familiar millea to Canadian art enthusiasts Thompson and barley and Jackson Arthur Marjorie lisburn and esther Mr in the fall of nineteen fourteen. The seemed like it was an amazing a few weeks people were were up there and the colors were incredible at that time and certainly it's right before the first world war break so it was the last time that most of the world together with Thomson being included a AW painting comparing talking experiencing the northland and that we continue after Thompson passes way and after the first World War is over over one of the reasons that these people still continue to get together and go on the Group of seven after Thomson died in nineteen seventeen a y Jackson Lauren Harris Arthur listener and J H McDonald All future members of the Group for seven paid eloquent tributes Tom Thomson they held him up as a natural genius even as a kind of patron saint historians since have since examined the actual amount of time. Thompson spent with them and it seems like well not a whole lot but when you're out in the back that country in good company you can cover a lot of territory in just a few days our own journey to Algonquin became something of a gateway to eternity unity. I couldn't remember the last time adamant I did anything together on our own for five days that time out of time made for pretty deep communion and I'm certain that this deep communion was felt and shared by these artists on their trips uh-huh like look at the color on that rock over there see the old waterline waterline and like pink or rust colored strip. They're right across it and light blue out algae or whatever liken paddled along. I thought Gee Gee. This is nice. I'm just holding microphone. Adams doing all the work okay. I'm Katherine Lockton Senior Curator Emeritus art the art gallery volunteer and Adjunct Professor Reaches College at the University of Toronto and it would seem to me that with Tom Thomson you have a young artist who was a member of Presbyterian parish who was schooled in the Calvin est tradition and who would have seen nature as Calvin did as the second book of God and Fan Hawk was in the same tradition and would have seen the divine in every twig and flower and leaf they were evidence of the Creator and the creation so primary evidence that there is a god and the beauty of nature provided a state of Spiritual Constellation and fun writes about we need more paintings of Constellation Nation and Constellation is a term that describes the spiritual state in which one feels close to the define. I've been looking at books folks that were available to petitioners at the back of leaf church at that time and there is one which I have here the is called Bible looking glass and if you open it you see pictographic map of the journey of life in which you have youth manhood and old age depicted as the life lead on water and it was published in eighteen seventy ninety five illustrating the diversity of human character and the quality of the human heart now this book was perfect for Sunday School and the little pictures must have intrigued those who saw them an inspired Maybe some Tom Thompsons early interest Jason illustrated which was very important to him as he developed book and magazine illustration but these religious emblems would have uh-huh also stayed with him for life. There were other texts that stuck with him the footpath of peace to be glad of life because it gives you a chance to love and to work and to play and to look at the stars to be satisfied with your possessions but not contented with yourself until you have made the best use of them to despise nothing in the world except falsehood sued and meanness in fear nothing except cowardice to be governed by your admirations rather than buy your discussed the comfort nothing thing that is your neighbors accept his kind of hurt in gentleness of manners to think seldom of your enemies often of your friends in every day of Christ and spend as much time as you can with body and with the spirit in God's out of doors these are little guidepost post on the footpath of peace that passage by the American writer diplomat and Presbyterian Minister Henry Van Dyke Junior graces racist a decorative piece done by Tom Thomson in nineteen fourteen nine hundred fifteen he gave it to his parents for Christmas. It's now part of the McMichael Canadian Etienne collection but it wasn't his first crack at it. He used the same passage ten years earlier while living in Ottawa Boarding House but he made a small mall error in the spacing of the text. He threw it in the garbage. A fellow border pulled it out and today it's at the Canadian War Museum Thompsons luminated text pieces are explicitly spiritual and philosophical but paintings are another matter well. It's hard to find out about an artist spiritual odyssey. Their pictures do tend to reveal a certain amount of their state and they reference other pictures. There's and Thompson later in life references the work of the nappy Gauguin and his circle who were indeed attempting to create a new type of religious art in their circle icon event in France a new type of religious art true there was a modern spiritual sensibility in the air in Europe and in the northeast United States but after nineteen fourteen his artist friends were nearly we all caught up in the great war so how did these currents continue to flow into his shack uh and we find that another person has entered his life and it's a woman of all things her name is Florence Ogle free and Florence undoubtedly knew about Thomson may have known him personally before the winter of Nineteen Sixteen Sixteen because the families Thompson and McGill families had come from Saint Ferguson Scotland and settled close to each other however they they came to know each other during the winter of nineteen sixteen she came to visit him in his shack behind behind the studio building and her reputation by that time as a teacher and as a professional artist was so great that Thompson felt as if we'd had kind of royal visit I mean he was ecstatic. He said he was delighted and pleased by her visit. He confided in a friend that he felt favored and honored over the interest of such renowned artist artist and he said that she was the first of the artist to recognize instantly what he was trying to do. The others didn't see it at first and that's pretty impressive. During that winter he started to paint with much more confidence and much more structure and he began to juxtapose certain brother acerbic colors which were not really wants is that he was closely associated with and he began to use very strong black contour lines by the time she visited Tom. Thomson at the Shack Doc Florence McGill had personally witnessed some of the most exciting artistic movements in Europe sheet immersed herself in the work of Vincent Van Gogh Paul Gauguin Gam in a group called the Naby as well as tease who taught her for a time she also spent time in Brittany in Ponta van with a group of upstart post impressionists called La Band and war she escaped from Europe in one thousand nine hundred fourteen on the eve of the Great War and she learned how to construct an EPI landscape using screen of trees to create what we call in art historical Lingo Rep who soir something that pushes pushes things back and the compositions are quite flat. They're inspired largely by Japanese prints what I find really fascinating about the view from the beach at accurate here which ages recognizable as the background of the Jack Pine is the the depth perspective. You're in this kind of curved Panorama Emma. That's actually not a parent on the canvas because the canvas is a flattened rendering of these hills this provides an illusion of recession without it being a kind of one point recession like the old world going into the distance exactly exactly so so she became very adept at constructing a whole range of types of landscape and she was known for mentoring young people she was famous for this and so I think what she did what she thought this is such a brilliant young artist maybe I can help him a little a little bit to bring out that artistic voice and so I think what she did was she gave him private lessons in that check Catherine Lockton and also happens to be the great great niece of Florence. McGill Very Catherine's preparing an exhibition of McGill Res Work and over the years. She's come across US some interesting items. I do have a painting that was for many years. consigned to the basement of my aunt's house with a screen of trees of of exactly the kind that we find in. Thomson's paintings painted I think about exactly the time and the screen of Birch Trees act as the repertoire for view of what appears to be melting ice and water and on the back of his canvas. There's a a sketch in probably charcoal it has to me the ring of a picture used as a demonstration piece by teacher to student as if to say and this is how you construct these sorts of landscapes and and this is how you build them up using a palette knife and it just the kind of thing she could have done on the brink of his departure for Canoe Lake in the spring of seventeen. Some have even raised the possibility ability that Florence visited Tom in Algan Park sometime during that last spring whether or not she did she wasn't far from his mind and an invitation to one of her. Toronto exhibitions was found in his paintbox after his death it. It's it must have hit her very very hard. She did run a bit of a risk as a single woman by spending what appears to be long hours alone with him in this shack in those days that might have raised eyebrows and I probably did but obviously she was quite prepared to live with that had there been a close relationship and there certainly was in the sense of mentor mentor pupil if must've been really a tragic for her because she would have seen the incredible genius that he had she looks very sympathetic from the photographs. I have one of her in which she's looking very wistful and wearing a pearl ring on her engagement finger we. I don't know whether she had a Bo- we don't know whether that could have been thomson but there seems to have been perhaps a time when and she was sufficiently enamored of someone to wear a modest ring on her engagement finger curator and art historian Catherine Lochner this ideas ideas on CBC Radio One across Canada around the world at CBC DOT CA and via podcast. We're also heard on R N in Australia. Iowa and you're listening to episode two of Tom Thomson One Hundred Years From now produced by Sean Foley. Tom Thomson left us very few explicit details about his interior life where his spirit and ours meet there are his paintings brimming with energy color and technique but as we come to terms with our history what role can Thomson's vision play in our future. Here's the conclusion inclusion of Tom Thomson one hundred years from now. It seems to me that the natural patterns Saturn's you'd see around you if you're an artist but reinforce adventurous brush strokes and the resolution at a distance of various impressionist techniques like the various lichens and mosses and the colors of fall naturally reinforce what Thompson was learning as he was exposed to various trends in painting every time. There's a this -ness of this. That's that is inspiring him. It isn't like dull realism. You know this is an emotional realism like I get excited by it. Obviously Peter lassie is an art historian Jesuit with priests and the author of light for Cold Land. He says Lauren Harris always wanted to be able to paint like his friend. Tom Thomson listen but simply couldn't and he knew it. Larry is drawn to the first signs of Thompson's artistic revolution in one thousand nine hundred and nine hundred thirteen just the just hard I mean that that is a sophisticated color he would have mixed that and gotten it just right ministers and it's not according to rules that he mixed it. You know no he etiquette work to get that right the tree against this guy he did that better than Harris could do it. At the time centrifuge cintra he didn't have a concept of Yuji whereas those trained European painters are people like Harris trained in Europe. They had concepts of beauty and I don't think Thompson did his breaststroke does change and that's due to seven the the other people in the group reporter who had seen Van Gogh would seen you know in his bridge light strokes but what he did with what he learned from them Pasta immediately in my opinion. I don't think you're alone in that opinion. What do you think what would you attribute that not in the innate talent and freedom could use what he learned but it didn't dominated the Navy Jim again the way either accepts what he sees. It doesn't have to be conformed to something else. January genuine one of the things about modernism is authenticity and I think authenticity. These are one hundred percent. Kim Work the painting the stuff in front of them and that's what matters he isn't pleasing mm someone else well. It's a question of cheating what you feel with Thompson and these early ones as well as his later ones. Is this authenticity I'm here and you're there landscape and this is what's happening between us so criticized way back in the seventies by another jesuit about my spirituality of modernism and and the thing that popped into my head before a new vegetables modernise word was authenticity. I'd like this painting because it has authenticity to it and I like myself myself because I'm seeking authenticity. That was something like that happened at that moment way back then somebody who's criticizing big for my attitudes attitudes which were wanted to be free from his attitudes against a lot of Control Alabama's going on authenticity yes. That's what I'm attracted attracted to. That's what I WANNA see and how I want to live but it's elusive it must be sought out often at a cost to ourselves as individuals and collectively as a society as a nation what we've received from from these generations artists enough in today makes us appreciate the moment but at the same time gotta be careful what what was that moment really about and for indigenous peoples. It was a scary time. It was it was the most brutal time you know as Tom. Thomson was unwittingly forging Canadian. Myth the theft of lands and destruction of indigenous families was in full swing. Gerald McMaster teaches indigenous visual culture and curatorial practice at Ontario College of Art and Design University in Toronto Hello and is a member of CICA first nation so I think that kind of narrative of this period when we think of this moment moment in time I will war that's what was going on and it was very brutal. The beginning of residential schools all that what we know today but sometimes it's clouded in in other narratives and I think we just have to be wary that indeed there are other narratives that are going outplay during this time. Gerald and I are hunkered down onto wooden chairs at the University of Toronto Arts Center and there's the third party with US perched on an easel. It's a dazzling Tom. Thomson Canvas called the pointers from his last winter his broken brush a strokes and use of color absolutely tickled the optic nerve you can join us and have a look at CBC dot ca slash ideas as s we talk our eyes wander over to the painting and rest on the giant hill the Kaleidoscopic Lake the mottled clouds on parade or the tiny figures on the water. I think the first thing that I noticed in this work was was that we're the people because quite often whether i Thompson or the later group seven the landscape was devoid of folks folks indigenous non-indigenous or even animals soon so it was a different kind of qualitative view of the landscape okay because it wasn't all inclusive it wasn't that all my relations kind of approach would rather someone who's keenly interested. Perhaps in the the forms forms the colors in the land and in the sky as well. I should say the land the sky the land water all of that combined together in this really interesting whole so third three boats these pointers I if you will there are used primarily by loggers so there's they're full of men rowing in one direction and it appears. There's a this kind of not a raft but it's a fairy of some kind ferrying a team of horses we pointed in the opposite direction and on the fair are you can see this one man in the orange shirt just leaning there you know there's this very simple the way that he the Angler proposed that he's got these. It's it's not stiff in the waters moving quite quickly like this and dazzling in that light and you can see these men just pulling their boats and it's hard to say where these men. Manohar there could be indigenous and non-indigenous together. You know they're loggers. They're extracting from the land so you actually I'm glad how'd you pointed at the guy in the orange because the first guy I thought when I saw it in person the first time was the felony yellow here and I've just noticed today that he's got his own little reflection yeah. He's got his own little chip. There doesn't remarkable but the landscape as as this professor Tim Inglewood suggest landscape and land or two different things land land has a sense of weight and space. You know you can't the way it is so vast whereas landscape starts to differentiate itself in the qualitative nece that that it has so so when you think think of Thomson and others going into the northern part of Ontario there were seeing obviously from the western tradition of landscape painting from I'm from that just the view of representing indigenous peoples on the other hand probably would see it but rather vastly different and that's the kind of display I try I to present when I was at the Kerio when we redid the Canadian galleries in two thousand and eight to show to juxtapose Thomson's Thompsons West Win along the couple bags that were done by an Nabi individuals back in the Eighteenth Century Truth in the Thompsons West wind painting. It's a brooding storm like it's you can see the whitecaps and the trees bent over right. That's the the famous that's bent over from the wind and so to me just reading that landscape reminded me that an indigenous view it say it's the struggle between the thunderbird and a mischievous shoe is about to happen so that's why it took these two bags that depicted the Mishopin shoe and the thunderbird and put them together alongside the West win. I couldn't believe the we had actually found these works. The Eighteenth Century there are very very old so you have this western painters and indigenous ages hardest both looking at the same thing but representing it in different ways so the indigenous artists were were they saw the land full of spirits thunderbirds in the sky the mischievous shoe in the lakes they head stories the ancient stories that were passed down to the to them through the storyteller and he wrote trickster none of Bush none of Boo Boo Shoo Lansky was implicated with all these stories. You know that's Hung Northern Ontario is on one hand. This is what we've inherited was the kind and what we're looking at. Here is the Thompson view of the world. You know we don't TV indigenous to you. The world the same thing same landscape qualitative -ness of that landscape has what was so vital and I hope that viewers were getting a sense of that. We don't know if Tom Thomson had a formal set of ideas about Canada and its art but Lauren Harris sure did and there's evidence on film of his lack of interest in painting a populated Land Art Historian historian Peter Larisa describes an Arctic expedition undertaken by Harris to the Arctic hoping to be inspired you know but what he found in the landscape of north was a wall he could not get through this wall is a wall always get beyond it the sketches and all that were done you know wally was on the vote and Harris had movie camera with them. You gotta you got came into some of the places with ship dog. The native people just poured onto the ship. It was all over full of people but not one of them occurs in the Harris. Pay Any of the Harris paintings the Artie there is one painting where he has a hot hot or something. That's the native people we live in because that's close as he got. He didn't paint paint the person's tall. Even though they were part of what he filmed they work part of what it was interested in painting at all. I have no doubt that Thomson would find his way into whatever nook or cranny could to find a good vista to paint or good little seen to paint Taj along little rapids on the Barron River here. We're up way up above the rapids but I can see how if you had a painting box walks and real predilection for a particular kind of beauty you you might figure a way to clamber down in there and set yourself up to capture a beautiful scene like the one. I'm looking down upon right now. From about twenty feet beat up maybe thirty feet what are your hopes that that we can develop up that understanding of these these narratives that are you know intention with one another. You know we talk about a settler narrative today that sense you know that that Canadians I think will always have a struggle to to be a part of this land really will will they ever know it. You know and I think that that's what indigenous peoples to some degree have the leg up and and and and we must understand what at that narrative of when we hear indigenous peoples talk and a particular kind of language all my relations sovereignty a connection with the land all that kind of stuff is critically important and I think that that is not to say you can't have a sense of it you know but because host their cultures were created out of this land and almost obliterated for the last you know in the early part of the twentieth century wasn't liberated but now that recovers coming back and so I think the beginnings on the connections with with the stories and understanding any of those narratives I think are critical for indigenous peoples. They're critical for you and other Canadians to understand and connect with these. He's these mainstream narratives as Tom. Thompson Thompson is a mainstream narrative but we how do we connected with other narratives. I think your question you know and how do we as Canadians begin to connect that realizing that this is in in the history of our land is a drop in the bucket. You know that history in this land so I don't know I hope that we have more opportunity to you know not just look at this painting head out into the land and beyond the land the land see the land differently friendly not just aesthetic sizing but realizing that there's there's more to Cynthia that happens in that appreciation of the landscape when you are there and I think that's how these ancient indigenous artists were articulating that in our work that is quite separate from a landscape painter pincher such as Thompson and you know his his contemporaries now we've descended a bit down closer to water level down deep on this poor tosh approach and the the fragrance is like an incense. It's a particular incense but you could easily become hooked on and one that would change probably from month to month throughout the year some beautiful sights up that way like there's no question Tom Thomson would have done anything anything he could to just get into a little nook or cranny or Bush whacking him trailing that go for you these poor. Taj is feel very different from the way they did. During my first canoe trip with a prestigious Algonquin summer camps summer nineteen eighty-seven where I was sent to voice I was twelve years old homesick nick and hapless kid. I'd never walked away and trailer camping absolute mess. That summer was the first time I had heard the story of Tom. Thomson July. I ate there was a guy is in the dining hall. Saying kind of hoary old folks it was also the first time I witnessed a quote Indian Council ring. There's a lot of digital imaging comes on on the inland lining wall pastiche of vaguely aboriginal ceremony costume and mythology at the end of the session. The month-long can camp director. There was the council dressed up as high left a staple of Ontario summer camps over over much of the twentieth century lunches boys. We were told our Camp Director wore a headdress and became hiawatha. We all fell L. Silent till yourselves together this an important ceremony but it was a charade. I became aware in whatever clumsy sort of a desecration of several indigenous indigenous cultures at once and story being handed as appropriate and while I sat there transfixed in July of Nineteen eighty-seven Canada's residential school system was still in operation. Most of the camps have stopped doing this kind of thing but it has taken a very long time but now oh and now I you know thirty years later. I want to be able to enrich my understanding. I tell this story to Gerald McMaster and to Tom's painting of the pointers and I ask what's the connection. There is a crossroads I think because this was done nineteen seventeen I believe this particular work because I picked this is where this this kind of narrative was beginning to play itself out during this time and so when you think thank of indigenous peoples as being ahead being maybe twenty thirty years already since the remarkable policy call the the enact which really was about about killing the Indian as they said killing the Indian saving of a man you now so all you extract every vestige of of indigenous not and what you have are these kind of vestiges of the stories what the reception that you were saying when you were young. is what all Canadians were going through. You know the Song Song of Hiawatha the you know all of that was was just kind of romance of about one period of time but which never was never really existed you know which was remarkable and so you wonder this is nine hundred seventeen first world war period. I certainly Thompson others going in the northern Ontario. Yeah they would have seen indigenous peoples you know whether he inherited the discourse of the indigenous digital person as other and the indigenous person as other was often very negative terms okay in those days it was clearly clearly to obliterate the indigenous person so what what he would've seen as just indigenous peoples dressed in a normal everyday fashion nothing to romanticize about they were looking for jobs probably loggers and as guides and that kind of yes indigenous the Indian was killed the but the man existed he was around but there was nothing romanticized so you have these narratives that you inherited the songs of Hiawatha all of that remains and it still remains is and remains in these kind of nursery rhyme easy ways you know and so our vision of indigenous peoples is so clouded in that that that that we can never in these people could never live up to that. You know that framework that narrative so so it's an interesting period I think when we see these works because none of that is there. We don't see it at all. We know of it but we don't see anything out of it so indeed the that kind of qualitative so the land not including business person is really just the trees and not even the animals it's it's the activities year waters uh in considering Tom Thomson Thomson and his art I've had to consider death and sexism and this country's history and my own place in it. It's an ongoing hiring process. I still love the paintings they impart a sense of freedom but to approach them with a deeper awareness is to experience -perience and even more profound freedom a freedom from illusion so often when you're waterfall river. I think no matter what happening the waters of the earth of flowing the source of Great Constellation You've been listening to the second and final final installment of Tom Thomson One Hundred Years from now a documentary by Sean Foley Special. Thanks to the Tom Thomson Memorial Art Gallery alary in Owen Sound Ontario the University of Toronto Arts Center and the Art Gallery of Ontario original music by the Elgon Cohen Unsolvable Assam technical production by Danielle Duval what production by Liz Nausea and Lisa are you so with help from Jonathan or the executive executive producer is Greg Kelly dime. Now the water bottles with some kind of koolade mixture inside possible awesome borrow got this right by the river bank. It was really it actually just catches the eye and you think you know someone was here here. Someone has no respect for nature at all. It's right someone who is perhaps maybe it was a child who yeah example and the child is the father to the man. He's the boy inside the man inside the May Yeah Yeah No. You're absolutely right. That's a it's a good book says for more C._B._C. podcasts go to C._B._C. Dot C._A. Slash podcasts.

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