20 Episode results for "Patsy Ramsey"

December 25, 2019: JonBenet Ramsey Murdered

Today in True Crime

16:52 min | 1 year ago

December 25, 2019: JonBenet Ramsey Murdered

"The today is Wednesday December twenty fifth two thousand nineteen on this day in nineteen ninety. Andy six Jon. benet Ramsey was murdered. The death of the six year old beauty queen captivated the nation and dominated headlines. It's it's one of the most notorious unsolved murders in American history. Welcome to today and true crime podcast. Original due to the graphic nature of today's crimes listener discretion is advised extreme. Caution is advised for listeners under thirteen. I'm Vanessa Richardson and today. I'm joined by our guest host Marquee McCarty of the something scary podcast along with her co host Sapphire every week marquee shares the spookiest ghost stories darkest urban legends. And the grimmest folktales. Glad to have you here marquee. Thank you so much Vanessa. I'm really glad to be here today. Jon benet cases one that we've all obsessed over for years and I can't wait for us to Divan. Marquee is going to discuss some of the historical aspects of the crime. While I'll cover the narrative I first let's go back to December Twenty Fifth Nineteen Ninety six in the Ramsey's suburban home in boulder. Colorado no one will ever really know what occurred in the Ramsey home on the night of December twenty fifth but we can be certain of a few details. We know that the family spent the first part of the day enjoying a happy Christmas opening presents. Jon Benet received a brand new bicycle and broke it in that afternoon. Riding around on the back patio. The last thing she ate was a fruit cocktail of grapes. Cherries and pineapple. John and Patsy Ramsey told police that they put Jon Benet to bed at nine pm on Christmas night. Her parents claimed that it was the last time they saw her alive at five fifty two. Am on December twenty. The sixth Patsy Ramsey called nine one one. Patsy told police that when she woke up early that morning she came came downstairs and found three pieces of paper laying on the steps. A ransom. Note it read Mr Ramsey. Listen carefully really. We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction. We respect your business but not the country that it serves at this time mm-hmm we have your daughter in our possession. She is safe and unharmed. And if you want her to see nineteen ninety seven you must follow our instructions auctions to the letter. The kidnappers demanded one hundred eighteen thousand dollars in exchange for John. Benitez Safe Return Return. They had extremely specific instructions of how they wanted the money. One hundred thousand dollars in one hundred dollar bills and the remainder in twenty dollar bills. They wanted the cash placed in a brown paper bag for delivery a process which they warned would be exhausting thing. The note also claimed that the ramseys would be under constant surveillance if they deviated in any way from the notes instructions or contacted. Talk to the Police Jon. benet would be killed instantly. Wants patsy read the note. She ran upstairs to her daughter's bedroom and and confirmed that she was really gone then. She immediately called the police when Boulder police officer. Rick French arrived. He did a cursory sweep the Ramsey house looking for any signs of forced entry. He instructed elected other officers to rope off jonbenet's bedroom to preserve any clues believing that she was abducted from her bed in the middle of the night but he didn't do anything to quarantine the rest of the House and protect potential evidence. Not only did Jon. Patsy Ramsey remain inside but friends ends neighbors and even the Ramseys minister joined them as a show of support. A few of them made breakfast and cleaned up the kitchen afterward. They wiped down on the counters and tidied up when French. Read the ransom letter. He couldn't help but note. Its length nearly three pages and it was written written on paper from a pad found in the Ramsey's house. It struck French as odd. Who would take such a long time in the middle of a kidnapping to write this missive by hand but the letter also said that the kidnappers would be in touch with further instructions so the police tapped the ramseys? Ramsey's home phone as well as Johns office line detective. Linda aren't told John that when the kidnappers called he needed to demand to speak with his daughter to confirm that she was alive and unharmed aren't watched John Scribble note must talk to j a b. While they waited for the kidnappers to make contact the ramseys started to feel despondent journalists journalists for Newsweek described. How the mood in the house was quiet and tents John Ramsey milled anxiously around the living room? Patsy sat sat and virtually motionless in a chair around. One PM aren't decided to do something to distract them. She summoned John and one of the other men an neighbor fleet white. The three of them did another sweep of the house looking in every room for anything. The police may have initially missed. Missed during the search John and fleet went down to check the basement. The police had left the door to the basement closed in their initial search because the adore used an external lock. There was no way. The kidnappers could have exited through the basement and latched the door shut behind them so the police considered considered it a dead end but John Desperate for answers unhooked the latch and swung open the door unprepared for what he would find on the other side when he saw the body all he could do was scream coming up Jeanne as missing persons case becomes a murder investigation. Today and true crime is supported by better help online counseling people often portray their happiest self to others. Whether it's at work work or on social media we often make it appear that we have everything figured out but a lot of times. We don't I know that I don't and if you're like me it's not not always easy to ask for help and find counseling. This is where better help can help you. Better help offers. Licensed counselors who specialize in a variety of issues news including depression and anxiety as well as trauma anger family relationships and so many others. And if finding a counselor that lives close is to you has been an issue. Better help allows you to connect privately with your counselor through text chat phone and video calls. You can get help at your own pace this and on your own time and best of all you can get help. At an affordable rate today in true crime listeners will get ten percent off their first month with with Discount Code today in true crime. That's better help dot com slash today in true crime. Why not get help? Better help dot dot com slash today in true crime now back to the story on the night of December Twenty Fifth Nineteen Ninety six six year. Old Jon Benet. Ramsey was murdered early the next morning. Her mother called nine one but she didn't report the Jon Benet had been murdered instead. She claimed her daughter was kidnapped. And a two and a half page ransom note demanded one hundred eighteen thousand dollars for her safe return but by one PM on December twenty sixth. The truth breath was revealed. John Ramsey found his daughters lifeless body in the basement of their Boulder Colorado Home Marquette. McCarty Freddie is here to discuss the investigation into Gina's murder as well as the long term cultural impact of this notorious unsolved case. Thank you Vanessa. Asa Jon Benet was found on the floor of the basement. Her body half covered by a white blanket. Her mouth was covered with a piece of duct tape and her hands retied above her head bound at the wrist by a piece of nylon cord. The cord was also wrapped around her neck fashioned into a garage with a piece supported. When John Ramsey found his daughter spotty he started to scream and he scooped her up and carried her upstairs not only did John and move? His daughter's body possibly contaminating the crime scene. He removed the pizza duct tape from her mouth possibly destroying evidence. He said her body down down on the living room floor we bake. He knelt over her and whimpered. My little angel my little angel. The media immediately grabbed hold of the story circulating John Baez beauty pageant headshots along with the salacious details of the murder. An intruder must have broken into the house in the middle of the night snatched Jon Benet from her bed then taken her to the basement to kill her details from her autopsy leaked not only had she been strangled but she suffered a skull fracture The autopsy couldn't conclusively determine whether Jon Benet was sexually assaulted or not. No semen was present but she had trauma to her genitals and they had been wiped clean by someone with so many people in and out of the Ramsey House and so many instances of evidence contamination. The police I had a hard time developing any leads in the case for days. They scrambled for answers on January. First Nineteen ninety-seven John and Patsy Azzi Ramsey gave an interview to CNN on their daughter's death. Speculating who might have been responsible. Patsy tearfully warned. I don't I don't know who it is. I don't know if it's a he or she but if I were a resident of Boulder I would tell my friends to keep keep. Keep your babies close to you there. Someone out there as the weeks dragged on without any answers suspicion started started to turn back on the ramseys themselves. Perhaps the reason the police were having such a hard time tracking down the intruder who killed Jon Benet was because they didn't an actually exists. Eventually Patsy and John were brought in for interrogation by the Boulder Police Department but they both denied any and an all involvement in the death of their daughter in an interview with police on June twenty third nineteen ninety eight detective suggested that police had hard scientific scientific evidence to suggest. Patsy was involved in gene beneath Steph. Patsy replied I don't give a flying flip. How scientific it is? Go back to the Damn Drawing Board. I didn't do it. John Ramsey didn't do it and we didn't have a clue of anybody. Anybody who did do it. Patsy Ramsey died of ovarian cancer in two thousand six. She maintained her innocence until her dying day after her death. DNA evidence officially exonerated both her and John in two thousand sixteen. The twenty year anniversary of Jon Benet staff breath the case was reexamined in. CBS documentary series. Called the case of Jon Benet Ramsey. FBI Profiler Jim Clemente Scotland Yard behavioral analysts. Laura Richards reviewed the available evidence and tried to crack the decades old mystery based on their research. They I believe that there was no intruder on the night of December Twenty Fifth Nineteen Ninety six. They suggest that Gina's killer was one of her own family members but not what John or Patsy as so many others claimed instead they posit that Gina's older brother Burke accidentally killed her childish childish fit of rage. They believed that burke nine years old at the time struck Jon Benet in the back of the head with a heavy flashlight cracking her skull to protect their son from punishment. John and patsy staged gene venise murder But Burke now in his thirties has completely denied the allegations he sued. CBS for defamation. And in two thousand nineteen settled with them out of court for an undisclosed portion of the original seven hundred fifty million dollar lawsuit seemingly clearing clearing his name also in two thousand nineteen. A convicted child abuser named Gary Leva allegedly confessed to killing Jon. Benet unlike Mark Kerr who had no apparent connection to the Ramsey family leave us gilt is slightly more compelling he lived. I've been Boulder Colorado at the time Gina's death and attended a candlelight vigil for her in addition when Eliya was arrested on child pornography a few charges police found hundreds of photos of Jon Benet in his cash everything from her beauty pageant glamor shots to photos from her autopsy. They also found a poem he wrote. Titled Ode to Jon Benet However as of this recording. Alita I believe has not been charged in Jonbenet's death her murder remains unsolved and fixture of tabloid speculation. And I'm Vanessa Richardson. Thanks sagir Marquee for joining me today. Thank you so much for having me and you can find something scary. podcast on spotify tunes are wherever you. Listen to your podcasts podcasts. And every to say we also have an animated horror series that is on YouTube dot com slash snarled. Today's Day in true crime is a podcast original. You can find more episodes of today in true crime and all other podcast originals for free on spotify not only does spotify defy already have all of your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals like today and true crime for free free from your phone desktop or smart speaker to stream today in true crime on spotify. Just open the APP and type today in true crime in the search bar are at podcast. We're grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network. We'll be back with a brand new episode tomorrow in True Crime Today. Today in true crime was created by Max Cutler is a production of cutler media. And is part of the podcast network it is produced by Max and Ron Cutler sound designed line by Kerry Murphy with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly Madden Freddie Beckley and Joel Stein. This episode of today and true crime was written by Abigail Tale. Cannon with writing assistance by Maggie Admire. I'm Vanessa Richardson.

Jon. benet John Jon Benet Patsy Ramsey Patsy John Ramsey Jon. benet Ramsey Nineteen Ninety Jon Benet Ramsey murder Ramsey house boulder Vanessa Richardson Jon Gina Patsy Azzi Ramsey Marquee McCarty spotify Colorado
JonBenet Ramsey ////// We have a kidnapping, hurry please!

True Crime Garage

1:19:07 hr | 1 year ago

JonBenet Ramsey ////// We have a kidnapping, hurry please!

"From Sky Dance Interactive comes the new podcast series which serves as a prologue to the studios upcoming VR title the walking dead saints and Sinners Supernatural Skeptics Guide to New Orleans. It follows Sarah Bennett. The host of a local radio series investigating New Orleans most popular paranormal tales. Else as she uncovers the surge of walkers taking over the city and becomes trapped in one in New Orleans most notorious landmarks the Laroche House supernatural skeptics. Guide to New Orleans available on Apple podcasts. spotify stitcher iheartradio tune in plus Alexa or at Vr. Walking Dead Dot Com. I hate colds. That's why I trust cy cam to knock out the cold at the I sneeze of the season other cold medicines only mask ask symptoms but Z.. Cam Is homeopathic and clinically proven to shorten colds when taken at first sign fines. I Cam cold remedy. Products from rapid melts to elderberry medicated. Fruit drops at all major retailers including Amazon SICOM cold remedy products Are Safe and effective visit Xichang dot com slash garage to receive a two dollar coupon on your next cold remedy. PURCHASE THAT CY CAM DOT dot com slash garage Jon Benet Ramsey she trained with Colorado murder victim. Jon Benet Ramsey unknown intruder Robert Ramsey parents. Sir John Ramsden anybody has been Ham More and find out who is responsible Argentine fine-tuning what's going on okay. Noteworthy left in your daughter. How old is your daughter important? How long ago was the same ransom? Note here it's a random victory place Okay what's your name. Are you okay. How long she she thinks we do? Tweet I am honey. I take a deep breath told okay. Thank you for the beautiful trailer for this week. Here captain and thank you for playing patsies nine one one call now just to clear up any type of confusion. I think we should jump right into a transcript of that nine one one call so we can all have a clear understanding what is said on both ends ends from the nine one one operator as well as Patsy Ramsey when nine one one picks up the call. Patsy Ramsey says police on one. What's what's going on Ma'am Patsy Ramsey? Seven fifty five Fifteenth Street. What's going on there Ma'am Patsy? We have a kidnapping hurry please. He's nine one one explained to me what's going on. Okay patsy there we have A. There's a note left and our daughter's gone nine. One one note was left in your daughter's gone patsy. Yes nine one one. How old is your daughter? She is six six years old. She's blonde six years old. How long ago was this patsy? I don't know I just got the no in my daughter's gone nine one one. Does it say who took her patsy. What nine one one does it say? Who took her Pazzi? No I don't know there's A. There's a ransom handsome. No here nine one. It's a ransom note patsy it. SAYS SB T sea victory. Please nine one one okay. Okay what's your name or you Cath Asi Patsy Ramsey on the mother. Oh my God please nine one one. Okay I'm sending an officer Sir over okay patsy please nine one one. Do you know how long she's been gone. No I don't please. We just got up and she's not here here. Oh my God please nine one one okay. Cal- patsy please send somebody nine one. I am honey patsy. Please nine one one take a deep breath and patsy. She says hurry. Hurry hurry nine. One one says Pazzi Pazzi Pazzi. At the start part of this call. It appears the Patsy Ramsey is asking for the police. Now we only hear her say police. There are some reports that state that that that is inaudible that we cannot tell what Patsy is saying in that first line yeah. There's some people that speculate that she actually goes to say ambulance and and cuts herself off and says police. She's immediately asked what is going on to which she responds giving her address again. What is going on there ma'am? She states dates. We have a kidnapping hurry please. What I decipher from this? Very quick little snippet at the beginning of the call is I kind of think good and bad when we look at the the scales of Justice in regards to Patsy Ramsey. She's doing exactly what I would expect a mother who is terrified. Ah what could be going on. Her daughter's gone and found a ransom. Note right she is asking for the type of help that she needs police. She is asking. She is stating where she is located and immediately stating stating the problem at hand we kidnapping and then asking hurry please. We've gone through a lot of these nine one one calls over the years. Yeah yeah they drive me nuts. One thing that I've always called into question is when we have a lengthy call and the person is failing to ask for help to respond to the situation until later in the call right here this call roughly is about. I was trying the time it. It's roughly it's a little over a minute. Forty two seconds or something and we have within seven seconds of the call all she is actually asking for help. She's asking for someone to respond to the scene right so I think a good sign for patsy where I say that I think a bad sign signed for Patsy is and this might be just too much speculation on my part but it almost appears to me and somewhat of a manner that she I believe that she could ask for the type of help that she wants police or ambulance. She states where they are located and states. The problem at hand kidnapping happing part of me wonders if she thought that the conversation was going to go any further than that right it okay. Now I'm off the hook. I've made this call. I've told told them to help that. We need. Let's wait for them to respond very good here. We had the nine one one operator asking again. Explain to me what is going on. Okay okay one thing that I will point out that I think is good for Patsy. Ramsey here is unwilling. You mean good good in the sense that let's say she's innocent of any wrongdoing. She goes immediately into we have A. There's a note left in our daughter's gone meaning. Where my first suspicion was that this? This conversation was going to be over soon as she said. There's a kidnapping please hurry right. Then she's asks what is going on. She without hesitation goes into what is going on. She doesn't stumble. You know like I would expect somebody that has has a lot to hide to possibly stumble at that point in the conversation. A lot up. Yeah a lot of us And then there several back and forth about you know our daughter's daughter's gone and there's a note here. She gives a brief description. The at six years old she's blonde. She's a six year old girl down a lot of people label give her a check mark in the and the guilty column for never saying her daughter's name but in fairness to Patsy Ramsey. She's never asked what the daughter's name is. How old is she Karachi your name correct and then we do have a portion here where I find it interesting that nine one one is okay? What's your name? Are you calf so there. Several there are several versions Asians of this call out there right. I find this one to be the most complete one that I have seen and so I'm going with this one. I hear a her. Say The operator. Say Our Cath. which just I find that interesting? Because it doesn't she doesn't seem to know where the calls coming from from at that time almost she's GonNa ask her are you Kathleen or Kathy right but yeah I think it's probably just inaudible and and that's the closest somebody could put down to decipher so I have patsy Ramsey. Of course she's asking for help numerous amorous times asking that they please hurry numerous times throughout this call even in this very short call six or seven seconds into. It is the first time that she asked for our help. And then again around the forty second mark and basically the whole second half of the call is her asking for help or for them to please hurry. Okay so where I always stand on. Those is if we have a situation where somebody calls nine one one and they are not asking for help. Because that's essentially that's all nine one on one is therefore for you to call and request help assistance of some sort. Yeah my issue with a lot of these non one causes is just the the lack of calmness and and obviously that's easier said than done but yes you read the note you yelled for your husband you ran to your husband. You had some kind of conversation with your husband. He reads the note and he says AAC Copley's which one have the two individuals. We know which ones calmer John Ramsey. So maybe you should call because like you said after you asked for help. Maybe that's that's where you think it should stop. Its where it doesn't stop so nine one one is going to keep you whoever calls on the line as long as they can unless unless you have really good reason to not be on the call. Yeah this this call also gets put into question because I would think when you start talking to somebody and saying hey we have emergency. Here's where we're at by me talking to you. The reason why they keep you on the phone is to start calming you down. So as you as the call progresses. Patsy doesn't get more calm. I think this this to me is either a sign that she's faking it. And she's a drama queen or this says happening in real time on. This happened so quickly and as they're asking her questions she still processing the fact that her kid is gone on. And what the hell are we going to do. And one of the things I find really interesting. I believe John. Douglas talks about this. This is one of the key things that he believes that she didn't know much about the note and go get to the note later. Ballade people speculate that she wrote it while she wrote it and they said WHO's the note from that if she was really familiar with the note she she would adjust said as BTC. But it's almost like she asked flip to that part of the note and then she reads from down to upwards reads S. B. T. C.. That makes no sense so she goes to the next word to try to find the answer S. B. T. C.. Nope that's not a good answer victory. Oh that's not good answer either she. I'm saying so. If somebody is more familiar with the no they probably went out. Read from down to up probably when it had to flip to the back To the third page aged to find the answer. That's assuming that that she's doing that. But it sounds like the way she's describing things on that nine one one call. It sounds as if that that is in fact what she is doing. Yeah it'd be very good acting. I would think if she's faking. That you said Drama Queen. I do believe she took some trauma courses. This is the in high school or College. I B here's what drives me. Nuts is like on the where always constantly going. Well here's how I would've reacted or this is how I think somebody should react. Where because if you did if John Ramsey called and said my name is John Ramsey my my daughter Jon Benet Ramsey's missing? She's six years old she's blonde. She's about however tall that they would persecute him for being into com- Not being emotional enough right well I to me. I don't try to look too much into the to try to figure throughout the emotions of the person making the call. I never do that. My whole thing is just I always question win. They are finally asking for help. Because that's that's what nine one one is. It's truly a life line. It is their only to be asking for help and Dan when somebody is in a situation as severe as this. I expect them to be asking for help very quickly in the call and the reason why I always reference that is because if it's a put on if you're only calling nine one one because you feel that that's what you are supposed to do or how you are supposed to act in the situation and you in fact it something terrible then really. You don't want help to show up inside deep down inside you. You're hoping it's delayed as possible because you don't want to have to explain anything to anyone right because you don't want them to know what you've done so I always take that into account when I when I listen these. I never tried to listen to the emotion because as you very Very well pointed out. We don't know how each one of us would behave or react to these different situations. We there is no right way to act or wrong way to behave on these calls and the car gets a little more interesting at the end because there is no okay. See you later or will be here waiting. There's no and end and that's where I believe possibly at that point. John Ramsey is trying to tell patsy Ramsey. Something there's something going on at that House that is pulling her attention away from the phone call in that point. Gone that minute and and forty some seconds on the phone to that mother could have felt like an hour so she might have been like look. I said all I need to say now. There's stuff going on here And now I'm talking to these individuals than the phone hangs up and it's always been kind of a mystery what it has been said at the Ed this is from a two thousand sixteen story on Bustle Dot Com. There's long been debate Over what exactly happened at the tail end of the of the recording was some arguing. The call did not immediately disconnect after patsy hung up the receiver and that a third voice can be heard the nine one one tape has been analyzed nine times nine different times by everyone from the FBI to the US Secret Service to professional audio laboratories to CBS to an amateur Internet sleuth neither the FBI or the Secret Service have reported hearing third voice or any other extended conversation. Now if we back up a few years before four this two thousand and sixteen story on bustle DOT COM reform. Steve Thomas's book. We have this from page fifteen. The telephone call gave us a cornerstone of evidence when he says us he means the boulder detectives working the case. Not so much for was easily heard but for what was found when experts washed out the background noise it has been my experience as a police officer that such emergency calls calls are virtually unchallengeable. They are tape recorded and either something was said or it is not right. Tapes can be so powerful awful. The prosecutors regularly play them so a jury can hear the actual voices and emotions of the participants in preliminary examinations and detectives thought they could hear some more words being spoken between the time. Patsy Ramsey said hurry. Hurry Hurry and when the call was terminated however the FBI in the US secret service could not lift anything from the background noise on the tape as a final effort several months later we contacted the electronic wizards at the Aerospace Corporation and Los Angeles and asked them to try to decipher the sounds behind the noise. He's their work. Produced a startling conclusion. Patsy apparently having trouble hanging up the telephone and before it rested in the cradle. She was heard heard to Moan. Help me Jesus helped me. Jesus her husband was her to bark. We're not talking to you and in the background was a young Sounding voice what did you find. According to Steve Thomas he says this young sounding voice was job as brother. Burke the ramseys would repeatedly tell us again meaning the detectives that their son did not wake up at any point throughout the night of the crime. He says as we knew differently. Yeah but there's there's so many problems with all this I mean. CBS Did an analysis on this to to eliminate all the background noises nearly impossible. So I don't care what kind of state of the art system you have It's that's just. Not How audio works there's distortions and and and things that are happening naturally because it's a phone phone call that you're not gonna be able to eliminate so and I again. I think it's one of these dumb points that okay. If you prove move that she saying he Jesus Jesus help me Jesus or whatever and then you hear in the background which I hear something like that then I also hear some other noise which they're claiming is John Ramsey and he's saying too then burke and when you watch the CBS special. I think they do a good job to go. Okay that's possible. There was also speculation for a couple years. After after that that she was saying What have I done? So there's there's been all these different accounts of what she's saying okay. Let's just say that you're saying what. CBS CBS is saying and and what what the detectives are saying is true and then they came to you and said that while Burke was coming up so we don't know what we know that Burke had to wake up at some point and we know that burke was a wake by the time the police got there. So what does it prove other than their miss remembering and there's plenty of detectives and plenty of law law enforcement and plenty of FBI agents. That have looked at this case. and Said you're just. Let's take a step back when patsy Ramsey says why check in on Jon Benet and then I went down the steps and then later changed to. I went down the steps all the note that I went to check on her. That could be in that moment of trauma if she has no involvement and her daughter going missing she might never remember which order happen. She is just telling you the best of her ability. What she thinks happened? So take that same scenario how burke wasn't up when I was on the nine one one call while maybe you're miss remembering may because of the trauma because of all the stuff going on in your head and in the House that Y- he wasn't up when you went to make the call he was up up when you hung up the phone will continue along on the time. Line as we go here but according to I witness reports Burke Ramsey Ramsay did not wake up until after police hood arrived on the scene. I want to jump back here captain before we get into this time line a little more because I want to really focus focus in on something that you said regarding that that tail end of the call what his been called into question and has been a debate of what what was said if something was said and what was really going on. I think there's good reason to debate that. I think there's good reason for people to question what they believe that they're hearing part of it is the reports that are out there depending on who you look at depends on what report you get on. What is if in fact anything at the tail end of that call right? I personally cannot hear. I hear something. I can't hear the words that later said I believe what I'm hearing is at least two different voices. But I wouldn't say but to get that my I wouldn't. I bet the title of my vehicle on that. I'm hearing three different voices. I think I hear three things going on but I don't know that for certain that I hear three different voices says so the way that this would work out is that patsy didn't hang up the phone all the way and then these words are spoken again. I find it interesting that we have so many different. Let's call him. Scientists for lack of better words right so many different scientist is coming out and saying. Oh we did this audio. We did that. The audio and this is what we hear all. We didn't hear anything. We can't clean it up. We did clean it up varying reports according to bustle dot com at least nine different agencies. Took a look at this regarding Steve Thomas I find him to be. I believe believe him to be is what I should say a reputable detective if he says this is what they found. I do put some weight to that where I won't go. All in on his statement is this has never been presented in the court of law and therefore therefore I have to go with his word but at the same time he saying that all these other different agencies couldn't find anything or couldn't decipher what was being said right and I like I said I think you could start saying that you you hear these these words and then you start hearing those words and if you take a different term then maybe start hearing that term and the audio is just not clear and there's just not the technology to clean it up to the point where it's definitive that there is another voice. I also again or at least to the point that that it's been played in that manner for the public right but I don't understand what that Gotcha moment would be that. If they actually moment I would believe that would be that burke was awake. That is a very. That's a very pivotal moment. In this case I leaving his but why would they lie about that. I'm not saying that I again what I have read from several several FBI agents when they say this Miss Remembering or switching up the order of which you did something might not be so nefarious. Oh yes it just simply might be be you have blocked that out that people. Sometimes when they see their their child dead for for the next couple of hours it's all a blur and that's very. It's a very good possibility in this case and so this the idea where people go. Bomb Burke wasn't up well at five fifty two. You check on him as possible that there's commotion He Comes Down Says Something you tell them to go to his room. Whatever and you miss remember and since misremembered then you double down on on this? 'cause we know that we know at some point they become a suspect and then it seems like they doubled down on a loss a lot of things and I'm just saying what does does it prove. I don't think proves anything other than the possibility that they are lying. And I would really call into question. What is actually going going on in that household? And what are they pretending to be doing or pretending is going on if they are in fact lying about burke being awake yeah but to me it would matter more if it was something where it's like we kinda here third voice saying hey did you find my sister. I killed her. You know something to the effect but a kid go on our to define this again. The only thing like you said which I I agree it very difficult. I find it very difficult that they would miss. Remember this I find it more so that it points out that they're lying when you have have sun something that indicates possible deception. You then have to call everything else into question. It doesn't make them look so credible going and forward the other issue that I take with this is then it calls into question. Well if in fact you are telling the truth and he slept through this whole thing. Why didn't you wake him up to ask him any questions? He possibly could have seen something or heard something or offered. Something of value for the investigation or to the parents who who at that point should be calling for help also should be looking for their daughter or searching the home again with the best technology. I think it's too difficult to clean up to save a certain. What is sad at the end of that tape Getting in shape isn't just about losing zing. Wait it's about feeling better about yourself whether that means having more energy to keep up with your busy life fitting into those gold genes being more in tune with with your body's needs or practicing better self care. NEUM is a habit changing solution that helps users develop a new relationship with food through personal personal courses with neum. No food is good bad or off limits. Instead new teaches. Moderation by helping track your meal habits visualizing visualizing portion sizes and seeing calorie density at a glance it can even be used in conjunction with many pre existing popular diets. I I love of our loss. Twelve pounds is really helping me track my meals and plus being able to see what portion sizes I should be eating. Gene has helped me a lot and you can make a big difference and look. I feel more confident. I definitely have more energy. You'll have to change it all in one day. Small steps make a big progress. Sign up for your trial today at Neum that's an oem dot com slash garage. What do you have to lose visit? NEUM DOT com slash garage to start your trial today. That's NEUM DOT com slash garage. The last weight loss program. You'll need with the cold months approaching. Nothing sounds better than curling up next to a warm fire sipping on a cup of hot cocoa and cracking open intricate homicide investigation Q.. Killer the subscription game that thrusts you and your friends and family until ongoing murder mystery investigation with with every delivery you sift through piles of documents evidence audio recordings case files eliminating suspects until you solve the case and catch the killer her no wonder they have two thousand five star reviews on trust pilot. You have to ask yourself. Do you have what it takes to hunt a killer. You're when you sign up. You're going to be amazed by how entertaining this investigation is. You will sift through the evidence. Decode ciphers piece together clues and try to solve the crime. I ask you again. Do you have what it takes to hunt a killer. I am right on the heels of the killer Dr. I'm searching. I'm going to find you and I'm getting my friends involved and we're having a great time doing it right now just for our listeners you can go to hunt a killer dot com and use use Promo Code Garage for twenty percent off your first box. They even have gift cards for all your holiday shopping not to mention. They're throwing exclusive bundles for the holiday season. So make sure to use Promo Code Garage at hunt a killer dot com for a twenty percent discount to show your support for the show what I love about hunting killers. You can investigate the crime yourself or with friends and family so check out. Hana killer dot com and use our Promo Code Garage. That's hunter killer dot com. Use Our Promo Code Garage. You rarely see them. Coming unstoppable forces destined for causing destruction Russian natural disasters every Thursday. PODCAST Network Investigates Mother Nature's most devastating catastrophes in the original. PODCAST CAST Natural Disasters Salamis. Tornadoes and earthquakes are just the beginning. Each episode explores the historical impact of a monumental tragedy. Eighty analyzing the effect it had on the people and places involved like the two thousand ten earthquake that debilitated Haiti claiming the lives of hundreds of thousands thousands of people or the nineteen ninety. Five Chicago heat wave which led to over seven hundred heat related deaths during a five day period or the volcanic eruption of Mount Vesuvius in seventy nine ad which buried the ancient city of Pompeii and its people and ash. They're the stuff stuff of nightmares. Far more real than ever imaginable. Discover more in. The park has original series natural disasters. Visit PODCAST DOT com slash natural disasters or search for natural disasters in the spotify APP. And listen for free today. All right. Welcome back cheers this week. We are drinking citra no L. hoppy holiday. AL BY COLUMBUS BREWING COMPANY GARAGE grade four and a quarter bottle caps out of five. Thanks again to everyone who has contributed to this year's Beer Fund and happy holidays out there to everyone in the garage army after the nine one one call the ramseys call fleet and Priscilla White Eight and then called John and Barbara Bernie. There is some dispute about who was called I but regardless due to other events and this time line we know Oh that the calls were made before five fifty nine. Am as we go forward with the timeline. Let's keep in mind that there are different reports. Having different details within the time line there are a lot of moving pieces and a lot of witnesses providing information to fill out that time line so we will try to deliver this portion in the most clear and concise manner that we can at five fifty nine. Am Boulder police officer. Rick French arrives on the scene. He arrives at the home of John and Patsy Ramsey just before six a. m. and A. B. P. D. Boulder Police Department marked Takhar. What is not in dispute? Is that the fact that officer French was the first law enforcement officer to arrive at the Ramsey House. Most reports would have officer French arriving at five fifty nine. This is based around him. Arriving seven minutes after the nine one one call which nine nine one one logged that call it. Five fifty to some reports have French arriving earlier and he could have but that would have to mean that the nine one one call log is not correct at approximately six. AM officer French. Reads the ransom letter and a story based on in reading the police reports Newsweek reporters claim French read the ransom. No and later conducted a quick search of the house. In contrast contrast other reports claim French did the house search first and then read the ransom. No French himself stated in Vanity Fair. The interview that after being greeted by Patsy on arrival John Ramsey directed me through the house and pointed out a three page handwritten no which was laid on the wooden floor just west of the kitchen area sometime after six. AM officer. French searched the basement another report states. French immediately searched the house looking for a point of entry. Only after he did that search he read the ransom no detective detective Steve. Thomas is account is far different in terms of timing stating with detectives. Finally on the scene they arrived at eight. Ten Am according to Thomas to handle witnesses. French checked the garage and lower levels of the house looking for places through which the kidnapper might have carried off the child while he found none the house was messy but he saw no sign of a struggle. That last account comes from the leading. Detective Steve Thomas but let's keep in mind while he was one of the leading detectives on the case. He was not present at the Ramsey home on the day in question regardless of the exact timing of this search it is important to know. According to police reports that during the search the officer fails to search what Ramsey's Ramsey's and later everyone else would refer to as the wine cellar room from the police reports and French's search of the basement unquote. He came to a door secured with a wooden latch. He paused for a moment in front of the door but walked away and quote. He does not enter this room. which would would later be called into question in the police report French filed? He says he didn't open the wine cellar room or because he was looking for exits exits. The kidnapper might have used this door. He deemed to be secure. He noticed the latch was on the wrong side of the door. This meaning for someone leading out of the house by so he kept moving. This is the windowless room that is referred for two as the cellar. Room and French does not know that. There's no windows in that room. That's not why he doesn't open that door. What he determines is is that it would be physically impossible for someone to close the door behind them and secure the latch once in the room right because the latch would be on the opposite outside of the door? While this is all going on Sergeant Breitenbach arrives and conducts a search. I want to go through this a little bit here your captain because as said there's a lot of moving pieces and the timing of all of this stuff seems to vary depending on who you talk to. What I think is important important to know going forward is most of what I would consider to be the key events? I believe them all to have actually happened. What you would call into? Question is the timing of those events right not if they occurred or not it seems like all of the all of the possible. Witnesses would claim that all of these things do in fact happen. It's just in what order and win right so I put in here. Sergeant Reichenbach arrived I and conducts a search of the home. The reason why put it in here is because if you go from John Douglas Information he he states that both Sergeant Reichenbach and officer Franch searched the home before this next event happened. This next event is marked at six. Oh three A M or minutes. After six this when France fleet and Priscilla white arrive at the Ramsey House within fifteen minutes of their arrival. According to Mr White's later testimony he alone searched the basement event fleet white said when he went downstairs to look for Jon. Benet Ramsey. The lights were already on the basement. Fleet white then searches the the train room or what he would call the playroom. He testified that a window in the basement playroom or train room was broken under the broken window. Mr White States. There was a suitcase along with a broken shard of glass. He does not however remember whether the window was open or closed I. There is a report states. Fleet white moved the suitcase and placed under the window. Some reports state that this window was opened. Some say it was closed. Fleet white also opened the door to the wine cellar room but he could not see anything inside because it was dark remember. There's no windows in this this room and he could not find the light switch. Anybody that's familiar with this home in the layout of the home one thing. That's always been called into question. Is that the light switch for this wine. Cellar Room is in a strange spot. It's not in that Goto spot. That one would immediately turn to naturally to flip on the Light Ram. He doesn't see anything and he said he closed the door and secure the latch. Now according to Steve Thomas he says at six six thirty a m fleet white searches the basement same incident with a slightly different time and description of observations Thomas's notes state that within approximately he ten to fifteen minutes of his arrival fleet. White searched the basement of the ramseys residents. He noticed that the lights were on saw the broken window in the train room and looked for broken glass and found a small piece of glass. The latch on the window was in the unlocked position and his impression was that the window was closed. He looked in the wine cellar but could not see anything and went back upstairs as six ten. Am Boulder Police Department officer. Karl each each response to the scene. Captain we do need to point out here that contrary to normal protocol the police did not seal off the home of the Ramsey's yeah they missed a lot of things with protocol. Yeah and other words. Any person in the Ramsey house could and did move freely throughout the home home at this time this includes officers and the ramseys and the whites as we know flight at some point. Even though in dispute of the exact Jack Timing did search the lower level of the home while anytime that there's a victim that is that young age and then you have a ransom awesome note or kidnapping situation. What I've heard is that you're supposed to go? Okay less prove this theory. I that the that the child is not in the House that something to happen this in this house and we're not trying to cover it up with with with this tactic and obviously we. They didn't do that. They just assumed that this kidnapping typical kidnapping and and you were trust the parents on this one and move forward. So there's a few things in that very same regard that I find to be interesting based based off of witness statements and this includes law enforcement and civilians. We have the two officers that Douglas's searched the home before fleet white. Both of them state that they're looking for exit points from the House. So that means you're going to be searching. Probably the basement and the ground level this might lead them to have no reason if that's in fact what they are searching for this might lead them to not have caused to search the the second floor and of course the third floor right the other thing we have fleet white. He states that he is looking for Jon. Benet Ramsey. He's he states that his purpose purpose of searching the home was to look for the little girl. This based off of a real life situation that he experienced where I believe it was his daughter. Water was missing and she was just hiding somewhere right. You know. It was just one of those parental scare moments. That people have the difference here is. There's a ransom note. But I don't believe if you believe fleet whites account. He very likely would have no knowledge of this ransom note so before he went off on his search right the other thing though captain where you talked about protocol and in the missteps by the Boulder Police Department in the ransom note says do not contact the police and one standard bit of protocol. I would guess here. I'm making an assumption. I do not know this to be true. It seems very strange to me that when you are reporting a kidnapping with a ransom note coat that boulder responds by sending a marked police car to the scene. That's the first car that shows up it. It seems to me like it would be more beneficial to that exact situation if you would send at least detective in an unmarked car right so a lot of things going on here. I say all that but I also question current day present day even nineteen ninety-six. Fix How much experience would a police department have with a kidnapping and ransom note. That's kind of an old school. It crime I wonder how often the these protocols are taught. I know that they have kidnappings and they deal with abductions and missing persons cases but one in fact where there's a ransom note saying. Hey his person's going to die unless you give us this money are just find it so strange. How many hey people the parents called to say? Hey Look Jon Benet is missing. Come over come to the house yet just after ten. AM is win. Family friend. John on Ferney arrives his his wife. Barbara Fernie came later and that's reported as just before six twenty. Am So we have fleet white. Priscilla White John Fernie Barbara Fernie all at the Ramsey House as of six twenty. Am this is about a half hour after the nine one one call is placed right. We also need to keep in mind that not only do we have all these extra civilians in the house but we also have several officers that have arrived there trying to assess what's going on there talking to John they're talking to Patsy and what John says is that after. He was aware that something was wrong that he did check the first floor doors. He found them all to be locked. He says that the Ramseys in fact had a security system but it was not engaged and that their dog stayed at a friend's house that night. The dog was not in the House the night in question. John said he saw no signs of forced entry. And the Ramsey say they heard nothing during that night. Ah this is where it gets kind of messed up though. 'cause you have a situation where a police officer sees marks on like the kitchen door or or like the the outside door that would go into the kitchen and they look like fresh like like this is maybe maybe attempt to break into your house and John Ramsey kind of dismisses these like well I I don't know if those are new or old because he has this habit of one forgetting his keys and just breaking stuff to get into his own house and not fixing and so that makes us situation even more difficult. Yeah and I believe they find those marks the the following day now just before six forty five. Am John Ramsey calls. The pilot remember. They're supposed to be getting on an airplane. John Ramsey leaves a message for his pilot. This this is Michael Arch Aleta who then returns the call. A few minutes later in Patsy answers the phone. I don't have record of what was stated I'm guessing Based off of things that Michael Arch Aleta would later say that it was simply a call to say. Hey something's wrong. Something's going on here. We're not making that that plane right at six forty five. AM officer sue bark. Low arrives at the Ramsey's house about the same time victim advocates arrive at the Ramsey's house. They are called in as they are advocates trained in helping families through traumatic situations since when they arrive apparently they arrived with bagels and Coffee Priscilla white about the same time calls her niece. Who is back at the white the house? We will know what that call is about in a bit and six fifty a m officer Weiss and officer officer bark low were photographing and fingerprinting areas of the House officer. Vh had collected the ransom note at seven. Am Burke Ramsey is awakened and dressed. There are two different accounts of how this went down. But they're both very similar one account states that it was John Ramsey fleet white. and Mr Fernie right. Who Woke up the young boy and got Adam dressed and got him ready to go? The other story states that it was just fleet white and John Ramsey as seven thirteen. Am Reverend Reverend role. Hosver stock from Saint John's Episcopal Church arrives at the Ramseys home. This is their reverend. This is the church did they attend after the Reverend arrives nine year. Old Burke Ramsey is taken by fleet white and John Fernie to pick up the fernie children presumably at the Fernie home and then taken to the whites home. There was some interaction action during this whole movement of Burke. Let's call it right where police want to ask Burke if he saw anything remember right now we are investigating in a kidnapping of a little girl. That occurred inside of home where there was three other people that night. Three potential witnesses his whether they saw something heard something right. What the officer is told from? All the I'm using air quotes here captain. General accounts I that I have seen states. That John Ramsey instructs the officer that burke was sleeping the entire night and he saw and heard nothing basically. He has nothing to offer to this investigation at an unknown time. John Ramsey apparently searches this debasement. Mr Ramsey also searched this basement area alone according to some stories. He testified that he found the broken window. A partially opened under the broken window. Mr Ramsey also saw the same suitcase seen earlier by Mr White. Mr Ramsey testified. Did the suitcase belonged to his family but was normally stored in a different place. Mr Ramsey then returned upstairs in his nineteen ninety eight testimony. John Ramsey provided several different times for when he searched the basement on his own he first states quote. It would have been that time period seven seven to nine and later reiterates. It was probably sometime between seven and nine when asked whether it was before after the whites. Bernie's arrived John stated quote. I think it was after because they came fairly early. He then reiterated quote the Best I can do is it was as I believe after the police came because they had gone through the house before. I figured out what I'm going to do. It was before ten o'clock they they had already done some preparation before that so it would have been before probably before nine so then somewhere between seven and nine but when reminded that the ransom letter said a call would come between eight and ten a m right. John is basing these answers. There's off of that. He was Miss Remembering that the call was going to come between ten and twelve ten. AM noon right. As he had supposed. I John made clear that he had visited the basement prior to that time since he states quote when we are ready for for the phone call. I was prepped about what I was going to say and I was getting the family ready and so between that period of time we were just waiting for the phone call all and I was near the phone and I was either in the study or on the first floor. I was just waiting for it referring to the call. This is one of the biggest problems with the whole damn case as the missed remembering in the eyewitness accounts from everybody. It's almost like you have to Kinda Anna throw most of them away because they don't line up with other people's accounts And and but also this is because you I. I have to go into the scene and determine whether or not it's kidnapping they would have done their due diligence there. They would have found Jon Benet Ramsey and the wine cellar once. I'd say. find her in the wine cellar. Now you have to lock off this scene. Now it's a crime and now what we need to do is try to. Because we know it's like twelve twelve to one that somebody that young if not more Percentage is higher that somebody in her family. Kilter sue so now you have to separate the three that were in the house and start questioning them right away and this is not done by law enforcement. Yeah there look and I hate to come down hard on Boulder Police Department because this is a strange situation nobody nobody can doubt that after we know what we currently know. It's going to get even stranger but where I kinda fault them is captain. I feel like me you and some of our garage friends could have showed up to this home and done somewhat of a better job just being uneducated aided individuals that are just guessing as we go. Yeah I think the difficult thing here is that you have quote unquote grieving parents. And so therefore again it becomes one of those things whereas easier said than done where you have to assume that nobody is tone you the truth from the get-go and and let the evidence tell you what to believe. But I think that's hard to do when you have this mother crying and and kind of causing a scene but there you're giving us too much credit. I'm not even taking it to that level of sophistication. I just mean if you show up to what is deemed or believed to be at the time a kidnapping then I feel like there are already missteps just just for just for that kidnapping not even based off of anything else that we will figure out a fence to come so I do want to point out by this time and it is reported again. I apologize to everybody but I can't make this stuff up. This is what's out there. This is the information that's out there. This is what we we have to deal with their varying times on this statement as well but I believe that by this time I believe the earlier statement that by this time in our time frame. Roughly we are around the seven ish to seven thirty mark by this time they have done don one well two things that were very smart and that you would do in a ransom type situation by at this point they have set up a trap and trace on the Ramseys home phone and they've also stopped all police radio radio communication regarding the kidnapping. This is important for several reasons. We have individuals that that did claim or at least the note will claim they want a ransom for the safe return of this little girl they very likely could would be monitoring police scanners listening into what calls are going on to see if the ramseys fact did contact the police. He's and what the police are doing. What is their movements? What is their strategy at this time so they cancelled all police radio communications and now they are going to communicate via phone? which is going to complicate matters because they're not used to doing that? and not everybody has a phone on their person. But that's what they have to deal with now going through all of those things that John Ramsey Ramsey said about the timing of win. He searched the home on his own. Search the basement on his own. We go through that. It's a bit tedious but you have to go through it because there's going to be a lot of questions about what he could have been doing during that time or when he in fact searched the home by himself we included all of his words. So that you know that we're not just making this up this comes from actual words. This is from evidence. This is from his statements that he put out himself now. If he's giving us a two hour time window when he believes that the ransom call was going to come in between ten and twelve and saying well happened before that it must have been between seven and nine. You almost wonder if you have to back that up a whole hour. Because he's off on when the call supposed to come in 'cause post come in between eight and ten and he's saying that he's being. He remembers being prepped at some point and this would be in his recollection around the time that the call was supposed to come in. You have to put the guy before the call comes in right all right so Louis simplifies some of this. Roughly about seven o'clock they're gonNA wake up burke they're going to get him dressed they're gonNA take him to the whites at the same aim time roughly the same time about seven o'clock to seven thirteen. We have reverend showing up so he's going to get to the house and then at some employ between seven and eight probably closer to seven because John Ramsey has to be prep for the call which should be coming in from eight not ten. He searches the home heat surged his home in his own words. It's just the timing. He gives his weird and wrong because of two things. Thanks one of two things either. He's not remembering the events clearly or he's lying or he's lying right by either way. This would put his search before the police officers search and so now roughly about seven thirty and we're looking at Thirty minutes before call. Possibly we can come in. The ransom. Amount is assembled they collect a one hundred eighteen thousand dollars at seven thirty three. A M A canine unit is put on standby. This is interesting captain because they never use this canine unit. They just put one on standby standby. I don't know if they were waiting for the ransom. Call to come in before they utilize this canine unit. Or what was going to take place but you feel like like if you know the child was sleeping in her bed at some point that you bring in that Canine Unit. If you're trying to figure out how the kidnapper got out of the home bring the dog in. Let them sniff around the bed and see if the if this canine unit is going to lead you through the home right but that makes some sense and and this case has none the boulder police department does not seem to be in the business of doing things that make sense no at eight. AM neighbor Scott. Gibbons I got up and observed a basement door to the Ramsey home was standing wide open. There's been some debate about this open door. Not that he saw it and not that it was. Open it just by this point you've had so many people moving around through the home and checking doors and going about police business business. Or what have you won. This could have left the door open and this is possibly the door that has tone you and one of the reports. I saw where the cops found a back door open so this could be that back door that you're talking about correct so this is where I think think we can back up John Ramsey statement of what time he was searching the home by himself or the basement by himself because he seems to recall even though he can't figure out the time that it was before he would have been prepped for the ransom. Call the next item on our time. Line plays to that so so at eight ten. Am We have detective. Patterson and Detective Linda aren't arrive at the Ramsey. Home aren't as crazy is yes okay officer rick. French gave them an updated briefing at this time. We have Steve. Thomas notes that states that the two detectives arrived left At this time as well so this seems to be generally confirmed or at least believed by multiple people on the scene. Detective aren't monitored incoming calls to the ramseys residents. That was her first duty afterward. Detective aren't instructed John Ramsey regarding the call all the instructions were how he should handle the call when it comes in I to keep talking or keep the caller talking long enough to trace the call and maybe even more important demand to talk to Jon Benet but why this is all going on. We have the Ramsey's friends that are over to try to help them out. They start cleaning the kitchen. Yeah some of the notes state that this was the victims advocates. They were cleaning the kitchen. Either way it's it's a big no-no especially if it would be the advocates that were brought in by the Boulder Police Department at eight thirty six. Am John John. Andrew and Melinda Ramsey board a Delta flight to Minneapolis at nine twenty seven. AM detective by field. Contacted Gary Merriman for a list of the employee's and access graphics. Yeah basically by doing this. They're rounding up people that they think are possible suspects at ten. Am No one including the RAMSEYS. Mentions to detective. Linda aren't that. The suspected kidnappers failed to call during the designated time period. Right Steve Thomas very astutely points points out a very interesting thing here that that that's very kind of difficult to put your finger on and that is the letter which we are going to dive into the letter states the we will contact you tomorrow between eight. AM and ten. AM The problem with that is we do not know what time Jon Benet was kidnapped meaning if the letter was constructed and she was kidnapped before midnight then eight. Am To ten am. Tomorrow would be just that very day on the twenty sixth right. If it was after midnight the kidnapper may have meant eight. Am And ten am on the twenty seventh. It it's this this him. Make this stuff up about this case regardless what I find interesting here though captain is if I'm one of the parents of of this missing girl and I've been prepped on a ransom call on how to handle that call when that time expires. I'm going to be ED panicking. Why didn't they call? Why didn't they call as they know? Paul Yeah I'm not GonNa put any thought into what day they were supposed to call or what they meant. I'm going to go off of. I'm panicked I haven't heard I'm supposed to get some instruction on how to get my daughter back right or I'd use my brain and say okay. They didn't call so I'm a little worried but does that mean that they're going to call tomorrow is you know is the note stating tomorrow. I mean like somebody should mention and something According to Steve Thomas's notes At Ten thirty at approximately ten thirty is exactly what he states. Detectives Actives Linda. Aren't and Fred Paterson. They sealed off John Benes bedroom about time. Yeah it's about time to jot down that way to go pat yourself on the back at ten thirty A.. M. After doing this all additional police officers and the victim advocates. This is everyone law enforcement. forcement sent to the home other than Linda. Aren't they leave the Ramsey residence so that means we now have Linda art at the home. One detective one member of law enforcement one single person with Patsy Ramsey John Ramsey the Weitz the furnace and the reverend while the ramseys really liked her though even though she has crazy is the ramseys. It seemed like they felt comfortable roll with her. Well I just wanted to point out that we have one law enforcement member here and seven individuals seven civilians liens in a big giant house. There are things working at the police station during this time. However how could the officers in the other detectives -tective there's a sergeant amongst them all decide to leave and only leave one officer there with seven people? This to me seems like pure insanity on behalf of the Boulder Boulder Police Department and totally unfair to one of their own unfair to detective. Linda aren't yeah but she's GonNa tell two different stories so I don't think we need to get into too much detail but it seems like initially. She's like yeah. There were cooperative and I was trying to help them amount and they were talking to me then it seems like years later should change his her story and that that that's where she has famous interviewer she's saying and I was holding my gone and count in my bullets. You know and it's like one. Why you kind of your bullets? While you afraid none of these people have guns. Yeah I just think it's that whole move is totally unfair to detective aren't by her fellow officers to leave her there by herself. L. To be fair number wanted to be seen with her crazy is it's too much for one officer to handle. We got seven people moving around a crime scene but they're not right but and then on top of that still has not been doesn't need it a crime scene by law enforcement. I mean they yes they blocked off. Haven't we read. That's one of the problems. Yes big pro. Yeah that's a big problem. Here's continued another misstep side. The Boulder Police Department. Now we're GONNA leave just one of our officers here too. Yeah okay so the thought at at the time is yes. There was a kidnapping. Maybe she doesn't need to be monitoring everybody inside the home but maybe that should have been consideration one and two. We've cut off Radio Communications Yup. What if the ransom call comes in? You've left thirty minutes after the call was supposed to come in. It just makes it makes absolutely zero. We absolute zero sense. We have one officer there. She'll handle it makes no sense between ten forty A. M. Around noon. John Ramsey is unaccounted for what this means is. Linda aren't the only officer Sir on the scene does not know where this man is during this timeframe does he go to check his mouth or something that his that was the rumor. That was the story that came out early in this whole big mess because a sh- shit about your mail. Well that's what people point to say. This man did not care that his daughter was missing at the time did not care that a ransom call could come in because he left the home to check the mail Linda into art kind of makes assumption. Here remember she cannot account for him. She accounts for him around noon. She says when she sees John John Sitting by himself and he's reading some type of correspondent. Some maybe a letter or something. She makes the assumption that he left to go get the mail. We know years later that that is in fact. We can't say in fact but I guess very likely untrue that he left the home to get the mail the mail slot that was in the in the front door. The mail come into the homes. You don't have to leave the home so he could very well picked up the mail or just pick something up from his desk tried to occupy his mind. We don't know what we do know is. He is unaccounted for roughly for an hour. She doesn't know where he is. Linda does not again that look. That's not the fault of the family. That's the fault of law enforcement for leaving one officer behind not be all to keep an eye on everybody but it's interesting because the other adults in the home are accounted for. During this time now we have Linda Art. Who is left with a cell phone? This is her method that she's been told she needs to use to communicate with her fellow officers during this time. She feels like she's losing control of of all the people they're losing control of the scene. If you WANNA call it. That and she samson choose roller eyebrows. Denies She sends two pages to two officers requesting backup that she would like for them to call you. Send a page they respond. She was going to tell them. I need some additional. No officers here. I'm outnumbered and I wonder what made her look. I'm not saying that she's telling one story. And then Sane Sane enough. That's what I said before. But what but that's what kind of seems like but maybe there was something that happened happened during being there by yourself that she went wait a second. Something's not right here. That's when she started calling for back-up yeah twice. She called well. She sent a page page both times they went. They didn't respond to them. She never had the opportunity to ask for backup. She's asking for backup captain because she feels. She's lost control all of the scenes. She's lost control of the all. These were there all. She supposed to babysit them. She knows for a fact that one of them John Ramsey is unaccounted accounted for search for a certain period of time around. One o'clock Heather Cox. She is at the whites home. She answers the phone own and she is told by Priscilla White to bring Burke Ramsey back to the Ramsey home Now at around around twelve thirty again. We have John Ramsey. According to Linda aren't sitting by himself she decides and again. There's I apologize. which is there several different versions of the story? But she says that around just before one o'clock she wanted to give John something to do so she asked John to search the house. Some story say that she approached fleet white and asked him to get John to go with him to search the house. I actually think these varied stories in this particular situation could be extremely important. Based based off of what people's suspicions will be because of their movements and what people will come to the defense of John Ramsey and those suspicions suspicions. Yeah but really. This case should be called Jon. Benet Ramsey close enough good enough for jazz right make us. Every story has a combating story. Because the people telling you the story other than us they all seem to have an ax to grind right. They've -cluded what happened. They figured out what has happened in. They're going to sell it and spin it to you in that manner. We're going to try. Try to give you the story from all different angles and let you decide what took place. Yeah now I'm going to really try to sum this. Hello I'm not GonNa let you decide on her crazy is definitively she has crazy is to sum it up here. Captain in the shortest form either aren't asked fleet white to search the home with John or she asked John and then John took doc fleet white with him. This is interesting because of what we will learn. And we'll get into that eventually regardless of how all this goes down of WHO ASKED WHO Steve. Thomas says that they were instructed to search the house from top to bottom however John opted to head directly clea to the basement instead. According to Steve Thomas's notes. John Ramsey led fleet white to the basement where they I went to through the train room and examined the broken window and John said he broke it a few months ago. They searched for glass on the floor. The men next search a shower stall located in the basement. Mr Ramsey then noticed a fireplace great propped in front of a closet and Mr White moved the great so the closet could be searched upon finding nothing unusual in the closet. The man proceeded to the Wine Cellar Room One oh four PM PM. This is the time given in Steve. Thomas Notes Mr Ramsey entered the room. I turned on the light and upon discovering Giannis dead body eighty. He shouted something in regards to that discovery. There is another version out there that states Ramsey shouted actually before turning on the light right. This is called into question because remember we have fleet white who says he went into that very same room earlier. Couldn't find the light and did not see anything. Job had black duct tape covering her mouth. A cord around her neck that was attached to a wooden Gherat and her hands. Were bound overhead. Ed in front of her she was covered by a light colored blanket. The blanket covered her torso but not her head arms or legs. John Ramsey ripped the duct tape from job as mouth and attempted to free. Her hands of the bindings fleet white came running up the stairs. Yelling call nine one called nine one one. He then runs to the back office located on the first floor grabbing a telephone but remember we have detective. Linda aren't is is still in the home at this point so using the cellphone. She calls nine one one and John Ramsey which is carrying jon. benet up up the stairs. He then sets her down and for some reason. DETECTIVE AREN'T GONNA pick her back up and carry her into a different room. The Living Room mm-hmm by the Christmas tree. This is where John Ramsey kneels beside the body and repeatedly says something like my little angel over and over again friends had to carry patsy Ramsey. Because she's too stunned to walk over to the body and the next part I didn't believe actually had a here at from patsy Ramsey's mouth herself but she actually asked God to raise her daughter from the dead saying you raised Lazarus from the dead. Raise my baby if you want more of the garage garage make sure you check us out on the very free very awesome stitcher APP and for our other show off the record check us out on stitcher premium for everything. True crime check out true crime garage dot com. Join US next week for episode three of Jon Benet Ramsey until then be good be kind. Don't let her

Cath Asi Patsy Ramsey Patsy Ramsey officer Burke Ramsey Ramsay kidnapping Ramsey House Jon Benet Ramsey John Ramsey Ramsey John Priscilla White Steve Thomas John Douglas Cal- patsy ramseys Bustle Dot Com Robert Ramsey Boulder Police Department
Jon Benet Ramsey: Episode 0ne

OWL Once Was Lost Podcast

20:15 min | 3 months ago

Jon Benet Ramsey: Episode 0ne

"Off Hello everybody and welcome to another edition of the owl once was lost podcast song. We Are The podcasting tool to the owl once was lost missing persons phone application. Please hit the Subscribe button. If you've downloaded this first of a four-part series, we've really appreciate your support for this very important companion to the owl once was lost missing persons phone app that you can get on iOS or Android. We've had a ton of people downloading a super super happy about that also patreon support coming in. So we really appreciate that as well supporting our efforts and being a part of the solution. So please download the once was lost missing persons phone nap. I'll put a link to that in the show notes for you. Especially if you have children elderly adults a grandparent. That doesn't matter. It's it's really for everybody. God forbid something off. Ben's you've got a tool right there that will help tremendously and it's works very very simply the more people that have it the more chances. We have finding that person off within the first crucial hour. So it's really an epidemic. You know, there's over 800,000 children go missing in the us alone each year and a lot of these can not just be prevented be solved by using an app such as the owl once was lost phone app. And again, it's Simplicity of design. We also encourage you to please go to our patreon page and pledge to help our efforts. So you would go to patreon.com that's patreon and then a forward slash once was lost all together. So that's m a n c e w a s l o s. T has pledged $3 a month that that would help us to maintain the app and keep the podcast running. There are some home. Appears that have marked that are included and we did have a couple of people come in at those levels and they're going to be getting some cool March. So if there is a missing-person uploaded to the phone app, we have a real shot. But like I said at finding that individual within that first crucial hour if they are not found in that first hour, there's only a 6% shot at actually finding this person alive and that's unacceptable as I always say so let's get this episode started. This is As Told by anne-louise bar Dodge concerning Jon Benet Ramsey. The Christmas light murder of a six year old beauty pageant winner JonBenet Ramsey in Boulder, Colorado shocked the country and turned her millionaire parents John and Patsy into suspects. With sources deep inside the investigation and among Ramsey relatives and friends and Louise bardach reveals. The story behind the Dreadful crime and the bitter split between the DA's office and I thought police department patrol officer Richard French got to the home of John and Patsy Ramsey in the Tony neighborhood adjacent to the Shattuck Aqua. Did I pronounce them checked? Akwa Park in Boulder, Colorado. I probably love that. No big deal with in a 7 Minutes of Patsy Ramsey's 911 call reporting that there are six year old daughter child pageant winner. Jon Benet had been kidnapped. It was five fifty two am on December 26th and the distraught weeping mother a former Miss West Virginia and Miss America contractor let French in Well, John Ramsey directed me through the house and pointed out a three-page handwritten note, which was laid on the wooden floor. Just west of the kitchen area close quote French reported. Absolutely French told colleagues that he had been struck by how differently the two parents were reacting while John Ramsey was cool and collected explain the sequence of events damaged see Ramsey sat in an overstuffed chair in the sunroom solving something seemed odd to French. And later, he would recall how grieving mothers I stayed riveted on him. He remembered her gaze in her awkward attempt to conceal it peering at him through splayed fingers held off for her eyes. If you can picture that 7 hours later, the strangled bludgeoned body of the child was found in a storage room in the basement French told fellow officer that he felt awful that he had not discovered in himself in his search of the house for months. He berated himself as he relived every moment of his hours there while Patsy had wept inconsolably a dry eye John Ramsey had pasted incessantly later French recalled the couple had barely spoken to or looked at each other though. They were faced with the most calamitous strategy off our lives. He did not seem them a consoling each other, but it was the image of Patsy weeping and watching him that haunted French, especially after he learned that she had been sitting down. Actually over the Spotless then fifteen feet below where her child's body lay. The ramseys with Jon Benet and their son Burke had had Christmas dinner at the home of their best friends, Priscilla and Fleet White Jr. A mile or so away from the house after Ramsey had moved his computer company from Atlanta, Georgia to Boulder in nineteen ninety-one the whites and the ramseys found that they have much in common fleet white was also a successful tycoon in the oil business both couples, enjoy sailing and six year old girls with older brothers either Pat seen or Priscilla worked but both were committed volunteers when John Ramsey had decided to throw his wife a surprise fortieth birthday party off earlier on November 30th. He turned to Priscilla to organize the event at the Swank Brown Palace in Denver according to police reports. The ramseys arrived home from the wife about 10 p.m. And then at 5:55 a.m. The whites were awakened by John Ramsey who told them to hurry right over at 6:20 the whites were they're joined by other friends wage. John and Barbara Fernie and later by the ramseys minister father role haverstock several uniformed policeman assisted French until 8:10 a.m. When detective Linda arndt arrived aren't supervisor detective Sergeant. Larry Mason would get to the house later that day. The initial team assumed that the troubled affluent couple victims not potential murder suspects. They even summoned to victim Advocates to the house to comfort them aren't in particular who was described by fellow officers as having bonded with Patsy Ramsey made several critical and possibly irreparable errors in judgment The Ransom note warned the couple not to contact the police but to await a phone call between 8 and 10 that morning. Art world news report that between 10:30 a.m. And noon John Ramsey left the house to pick up the Family Mail, which he later saw him open and read at 1 p.m. When Noam call-ahead come aren't asked Ramsey and Fleet white to follow her into the kitchen and investigator describes a scene. She said I want you to search this house from top to bottom. She had barely wage of speaking that one John Ramsey bolted from the kitchen and headed down to the basement Fleet white told us at Ramsey went directly to a small Broken Window on the north side of the house and paused it said to Ramsey. Hey John looked at this and John said Yeah, I broke it last summer. He wanted Fleet to see the window set up on an intruder Theory but no one but a Spotify trial the remit could have crawled through that space while Fleet is looking at the window John disappeared down the hall directly to the little room where the body is. It's a huge basement with a lot of rooms and corridors wage. Ramsey went directly to that room. He screamed and Fleet ran damn white had previously peered down into the windowless storage room, but had not seen the body lying on the cement floor wage was the lifeless Jon Benet dressed in a white knit shirt and long underwear. There was duct tape over her mouth a draw made of white cord and a broken artist paint brush handle around her throat and there was quarter round the wrist. The body was covered with the white blanket from her bed nearby was her red pageant nightgown described by a relative as her favorite possession Ramsey yank the tape from her mouth and according to the investigator holding her with both hands around her at the waist the way he would hold the doll carried her upstairs and laid off the hardwood floor in the living room, but was interesting was when Ramsey brought the body upstairs. He never cried related a source present at the time, but when he later down he started to month. While peering around to see who was looking at him Linda arndt lifted the child from the floor and placed her alongside the Christmas tree Patsy collapsed right on top of Jon Benet said the source found she got her knees and screamed Jesus. He raised Lazarus from the dead, please raise, my baby. Aren't asked father role to gather everyone to a circle around the child and lead them in a prayer numb with grief and horror they bowed their heads to said the Lord's Prayer the following evening at the former house in South Boulder Linda arndt approached John Ramsey, but Ramsey's lawyer friend, Mike Bynum cut off the conversation telling aren't that legal advisers had been retained to speak for the ramseys the next day. The police were informed that the ramseys had nothing more to say and wouldn't answer no further questions. Although John Ramsey was a lifelong Conservative Republican. He turned to happen Morgan & Forman a long. I'm sorry Law Firm almost synonymous with Colorado's Democratic political machine take a look at their offices here in Denver says Chuck Greenberg columnist at The Denver Post referring to the Gated mansion that houses The Firm then take a walk over to the governor's mansion a few blocks away and tell me which one is bigger and I'll tell you what. One is more powerful and during the seventies and eighties. How hadn't ran Gary Hart's campaigns for Senator and was an advisor on his presidential campaign hadn't became known as a power broker in a kingmaker. He had a reputation for socializing with clients such as Hunter S Thompson Governor Roy Romer former Governor, Richard Allen and Congressman David Skaggs her off political allies of haddon's as is how it's Hunter folders longtime district attorney had his Partners Brian Morgan and Lee Foreman by arguing controversial Intruder 33-1 an acquittal in the celebrated 1980. Trial of Lee bib Linsley, he was accused of murdering her husband a prominent, Colorado pediatrician Quote on a ratio of 12 to one child murders are committed by parents or a family member said FBI veteran Greg McGarry Ramsey decided that his wife should have our own lawyers and he retained Patrick Burke and Patrick Furman within a week of the murder. A media consultant named Pat Horton was also brought aboard later to be replaced by Rachelle simmer and wage earner in July Denver's Premier publicist. Charles Russell was added to the payroll in addition to his lawyers team of private investigators Ramsey retained the Denver firm of hls Armistead as well as former FBI, criminal profiler and two handwriting analysts after the police tried to question Ramsey's first wife in Atlanta. He also hired a lawyer there named James Jenkins Caesars a lot of lawyers a lot of different organizations. I had never heard of when I you know, originally came across a trombone a case like I'm sure a lot of you did. That are a little bit older and can remember this case when it first, you know appeared. So comparisons are inevitable made to OJ Simpson. But Jon Jon Benet Ramsey is far wealthier, and I'd like the Simpson dream team Ramsey's lawyers have sought invisibility ironically to Simpson Defenders Barry Scheck and the forensic scientist. Henrietta Lee have made themselves available to the boulder DEA some say in an effort to refurbish their post Simpson image. The one press conference hadn't steam it permitted the ramseys in the boulder Marriott on May 1st was so elaborately orchestrated that would it was called the Ramsey infomercial by Denver talk radio host Peter Boyles the Ramsey team of lawyers and publicists chat against the back wall, but the selected reporters had agreed not to question them. It was not the first time that it carefully packaged appearance had backfired on Sunday January fifth media consumption. Pat Cordon had arranged to have a television crew outside st. John's Episcopal Church in Boulder during the service. There was a special hand out a personalized quote for the Ramsey family offering prayers specifically for them set up parishioner who was present we were appalled because a lot of people had qualms about believing them to be at the time outside. The church was a throng of photographers waiting to capture a sobbing Patsy exiting on the arm of Barbara Fernie. They told totally used to church as a photo opportunity said the parishioner the ramseys appearance of CNN in Atlanta and January 1st had also raised questions. Why would a grieving couple go on National Television or refusing to speak to the police? What the John Rambo you mean by saying? I don't know if it was an attack on me my company. Eight months after the murder to the bafflement of the public the FBI and the police hadn't Steen has been singular literally see him a singularly successful in dissuading bulb Alex Hunter from filing charges the public perception whether true or not is that how hadn't can knock out Alex Hunter blindfolded with his hands tied behind his back said columnists Chuck green honors team is led by a trial Attorney Peter Ostrum a former prison guard at San Quentin who has worked with Hunter for twenty-three years trip demuth life-forms handsome assistant and Lou Smit. He retired homicide detective the police followed up through initial ineptitude by rapidly assembly a group of six experienced detectives legs like Tom Wickman. They were Ron Gossage Jane Harmar Melissa Hickman Steve Thomas and Tom Torito Hofstra men's and women's teams are supposed to be working together. Hi security war room but trust between the two is quickly shattered Peter Boyles who was daily coverage of the Ramsey case as won him National celebrity has and admittedly personal interests Pioneer talk radio hosts down when Burke said his best friend and Mentor was gunned down in Nineteen Eighty-Four by Neo-Nazi thugs Ramsey's lawyers Pat Burke and leave Foreman represented two of the accused boil says that Alex Hunter who make calls Monty Hall of Let's Make a Deal Fame has never met a criminal that he thinks is fit for jail, Jeff Green and calls Hunter found her plea bargain has Savaged his office as the hunter Ramsey team. During a three-hour interview with me in June Alex Hunter and affable man of 61 acknowledge that much of the ramseys post murder Behavior was unusual. No question about it. They woke up early on he said normally it is true. But such victims throw themselves at the police and district attorney offering and begging for information the fact that they do not cooperate as most compelling but it is not really evidence Hunter asked to find nude that Patsy Ramsey was a college graduate and had talented as a painter. He passed on the information that she took the science fair at her son's school and that she had impressed lawyers with their outspokenness when she served on a recent jury. She was fused with quote. Jon Benet said it was more than mere love as far as John Ramsey when he referred to as Iceman. He wondered aloud whether someone as smart as Ramsey would write such a long note. Toward the end of our talk. He said these are not bad people then hastily added. Of course, we know that good people can do bad things. When I ask Hunter weather pressure from the hadn't team had gotten to them. He said I'm in the first year of my seventh term and how you have zero interest and running for state dog catcher or Congressman. So the business about me syncing my political force in is nonsense. I don't feel any intimidation. However, one Insider said that Hunter is twice removed from the case and Hunter admits that he depends on Peter Ostrum for his information. Well, he's the only one that's keeping me advised. He's what I consider to be the lead guy. All right everybody. So that's going to end the first part of this four-part series on Jon Benet Ramsey. Please hit the five stars forest for the review right out of Britain review if you like as well, but we need those five stars for the algorithm so that we can be found on iTunes and then if off To write anything you wish even advice or if you just loved podcast the way it is, of course, we don't have a lot of high-end production like most podcasts do but you know that's awful were working to get to and the way that we're going to do that is with your help through patreon. We already have quite a bit of help that it came in once I started to talk about patreon. So you would just go to patreon.com once was lost. That's o n c e l o s t once was lost so patreon.com once was lost a $3 tear that's the one that we asked everybody to join with its, you know, barely anything and it would be going to helping to be part of the solution here and to help keep the app up to date and that we can continue to add more and more excuse me, more and more options to it. And also for the podcast so that we can keep it keep it running and God forbid anybody goes missing that you know, we'd be in touch with the family in real time getting even further detailed information that is over and above what was uploaded onto the owl once was lost missing persons phone application that every single one of you needs to download and half on your phone. God forbid something does ever occur. All you do is just go to that app upload the pertinent information and immediately people in your area are helping to search page and hopefully we can get your say you're abducted child or missing child or an adult with Alzheimer's back to you and in your arms. again again within that first crucial hour cuz it really is that important as I said before we started only 6% you know are ever recovered after that first hour alive. So that makes it vitally important. All right everybody. Thanks for your time, and we'll see you on the next episode. Thank you.

Jon Benet Ramsey Patsy Ramsey Jon Jon Benet Ramsey Ramsey Jon Benet John Ramsey murder John Boulder Alex Hunter Denver hunter Ramsey team Colorado officer Atlanta Patrick Burke Linda arndt Peter Boyles
MMISWP Mini-Episode: Who Killed JonBent? (Featuring Sue Smith)

Mother, May I Sleep With Podcast?

3:01:21 hr | 7 months ago

MMISWP Mini-Episode: Who Killed JonBent? (Featuring Sue Smith)

"Hey, guys, welcome back to mother Maze Super podcast today we are doing who killed. Jon Benet for those of you who are not familiar. I am obsessed with this case. This is probably the first crime case that I got really into. It was the middle of summer and I couldn't stop reading tabloid magazine Zimbabwe I would take my money and go straight to the store every single week and pick up all the new tabloids, so it's a huge part of my life in some ways and today we have agreed gassed sue Smith from scam while. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to talk about Jon Benet. Yeah I know I love her so much. What's your personal relationship with this case? On my God so of course I it happening when I was a kid, but then like. Three years ago when I got married sixty minutes, documentary came out like right after I got married when we were on our honeymoon. Made my husband pause everything so that we could set the time aside to watch documentary with. Varner spits. It's so good and. Yeah I I kind of know a lot not to brag. Right I'm glad because yeah I watched all of those when they came out to. I mean it's never settled. This case is just never settled well with me in any way. And why should it right I mean? This? Little girl was murdered in her home on Christmas. On the night of Christmas. Leg Her. There's all this mystery surrounding it I I when I first started taking information about this case like I was a kid. There's so much so as an adult rewatching in rereading all this stuff. It makes so much more sense to me. But I am I loved I loved those specials so much I especially loved the CBS one. Even though a lot of people think about one was a little. Racing it was very skewed I've heard even people who are Burke Ramsey murder. Her true Thursday that they felt like there was a lot of cheap shots and that, and also just you know, I. Mean I think we'll never forget kid hitting. All covered with ham with a hammer. Oh my God! How could we forget? But I mean you know it's an airtight argument for why Burke did it I. Think Yeah. Burke ended up suing CBS for like millions of dollars after that. Yeah, he's settled I think he sued for one hundred and seventy five million, and then he, or maybe was closer to three hundred because I remember thinking at the time like at best tailgate. Get half of that and you know they're so. They settled out of court so I'm sure he did very well, but they're so. I don't know there's. Like in order to sue someone for that amount of money, just like my understanding is like when you're suing someone for damages, you have to prove that that's what you lost like. You potentially lost three, hundred, twenty, five, million or whatever. Invite world was Burke Ramsey about to make three hundred twenty five million dollars. Yeah, because when you're doing for damages, you're basically paying lake. You ruined my life like this is what I stood to do in my life and you took that away from me, so you can't just sue for an arbitrary number. You have just sue for what your losses are. I never knew that but I don't know he's like a big computer programmer. Something so maybe or. Pain and suffering. Maybe I mean three hundred, twenty, five million like I didn't realize he was frigging. Bill Gates over there, but yeah, I mean I also felt so stupid when I was watching all these specials, because deep down, I felt like there was going to be a concrete answer him and If, that was the case. They're probably wouldn't even be a TV show because they would have burke Ramsey in jail so I'm thinking you know the whole time. I'm watching this I'm like. Oh, they're going to finally. Tell me who the killer is and like there's just no way to know I. Consider you know when you think about what heaven is you I've always said it's two things. It's like watching every single real housewives franchise. Footage. Louis, raw footage, and being able to see what happened in the Ramsey. House, dot night. Like I WANNA see every minute of it because I am team. Burke killed you know. Her but I also detective loose Smith. Quite a while character was not expecting what I saw when we were watching this movie I don't know why I thought he would be like a boring guy. Because of course he's not. He's like sort of like rogue type detective guy like floats around, and just is like this legend at finding you know the truth in these cases, but you know there's ice started to really. I felt a little bit. For the for the police in the moment, because I could see both sides of it. If I was a cop, I would probably go like well a+ be. We'll see so obviously someone in the house killed them. Well I feel for the ramseys because it's like the mom. Patsy if she was like. If anything happens to burke I'll just I like that, and then she would she would have the other kid taken away from her essentially if they convicted burke doing it, so it's like I. Don't know she was in a hard place. While when Patsy Ramsey, it's interesting. 'cause I am of the belief that Patsy Ramsey is like a supreme narcissist or was not to speak ill of the dead, but I'm probably going to be doing a lot of that in this. Piece. Yeah, but I while she's not definitely not resting peacefully I mean. I really also am one of the people who think that the cancer was. Probably, a direct result of the stress that came with all of this. But I almost felt like when she says to Linda in the cafeteria. This is when later on when work is getting. Interviewed by the like the child psychologist, she says you know if I lose burke like I have no reason to live. I always viewed it as a manipulation. I can see that. Because like it's you know you reasoning with her woman to woman like she was making it clear what the stakes are for her and it wasn't you know like? Why was she afraid about losing burke? You know what I mean like. We know why, but why? Why was she? Patsy is the one who really tells a lot. If I'm being honest with you but I think that we don't get a clear picture of her character in any of these documentaries or in this movie because. She seems so pulled back and withdraw. They show the CNN footage of her interview with Larry King, and it's like she's like drugged. She's like Zan or something, so I feel like we don't know who she really is. So that could be a genuine statement or could be a manipulative statement, I mean Oh, the fans for shore like I was GonNa. Talk about that when we got to the clip of it, but like when I was a kid. I had no idea what being zand out. Look like and now I'm an adult I'm like. fucking Zana's dog like she's just like not even in her right mind. For some reason. I didn't realize that I don't know. I kinda thought like benzoate were a new thing. That's so naive of me, because obviously not but for I didn't realize that it was so pervasive like you could just go get Xanax Day of your daughter being held So that's sort of like took me back a little bit. But Yeah I agree you know at one point during these this movie I just wrote on my notes like these people are fucking weird like this is the weirdest family like they're just such strange ducks and I can't imagine what happened to them. Happening to anyone else in a weird way leg. It's just they are the people that would have this unsolved murder of their daughter forever. They're just. They're the right breed of strange there so. But okay, so there is to lifetime movies about Jon Benet. This one is my favorite in the Senate has probably one of the creepiest devices they use a narrator, yes. Jon Benet a little girl to sort of paint. The picture of her murder and I'm going to play the clip. In a second, but basically. They per trae. Her is having a very childlike understanding of what happened to her which? Makes Sense. She is a child, but she wasn't so naive that she didn't. She probably wouldn't have had more. Understanding may also act like she doesn't remember anything. After she went to bed. and I just think it's such a disservice to the story and so creepy to like think that she would want to have a hand any of this right right. I'M GONNA. Play the first clip thirty seconds to one twenty five. This is kind of like bedtime story. Unsupported time. There was a girl named gene. She looked like a princess. She wasn't. Jewish system normal girl who wanted to play outside and ride your bike. Highly. I! Owning A. For. Her and my son and. That's the last thing I remember. Seeing those words. And I fell asleep. Remember anything after. That God, so creepy, it's it's so creepy. obviously okay we got. We got the version of this down. We know what this is going to be. It's going to be a freak show, so then we cut to December twenty, six, nineteen, ninety, six at five, fifty, two am, and we see the nine one one operator taking this call from Patsy Ramsey which we all know very well by now, so we cut back then to thirty hours later. Can I just say like? How much therapy do you think nine one one operators got? It's gotta be so traumatic. Imagine having job. It's one in Lake does sort of unsung hero jobs I feel like because you are internalizing so much horror, and eventually you probably will find out what happened on the other end of that call, but I'm sure you're left with a lot of stuff. You don't really know like you can't really follow every case you got. You know so. It's very I. Every time I see someone taking on one caller even just listened to one I feel so bad for the operator, yeah! But yes, so we go to thirty hours later. It's at the police station and you know we find out that this narcotics detective is going to be put onto this case because he can be the one who's you know possibly able to solve this puzzle. And just with the nine one one call, so this is. This is very nitpick. Nick piggy of me, but she doesn't say her name. She just says I'm the mother and then at the end of the scene. The nine one one operator is like okay, patsy. Thank you very much and I'm like damn it. She didn't say her name. How do you know her name was patsy and made me sub. Funny I was I. Thought it was actually the call. I don't know if it was actually the call it sounded to. The quality didn't sound. Shitty enough to be the the call. I got you I got you? Yeah, well I mean lifetime. Have some explaining to do. They do this through out where they show like stuff that looks like old footage, but it might be old footage, but it might not be old footage, so they kind of do that throughout. Yeah. They definitely didn't use the Chris Watts approach that they used in a lifetime movie where they were able to cut in a lot of real stuff it to the point where it is a little bit eerie when they show Steve's book cover and like the tabloid covers. All of that was very real. I feel like I. Remember seeing some of that stuff but yeah, so you know they're dealing with A. A lot over at the station right now and you know they find out at this point that the family is trying to take the body to Atlanta for proper funeral, and he tries to use this opportunity to basically leverage in the. He wants an interview with them, but they haven't been to cooperative with the interview. There's a lot of I mean so much of this case falls into the you know. It's all about this family that was supposedly because they're wealthy and have money around town or whatever they are considered to be local celebrities almost and. I kinda just don't understand why lake there are affluent people everywhere right? It seems like there was no shortage of affluent people where they lived. Why were they getting? All of these Special Treatment It was really. I don't know well depicted here, but. So basically, they find out that Linda. The COP. Who is there the morning that they discovered her they were it was a nightmare. She handled everything incredibly bad badly and like Linda. I have to say I always disliked her immensely and sort of retailing's of this story. Because I was just like what is up with this Mukta. She fucked it up, but you can also really see that there babysitting like twelve adults who are absolutely hectic like every single one of them. It's like a game of Sims or something where you have to track what each person is doing at any given time and make sure that they're not fucking up and. I guess she could have. Honestly there were so many times where I was yelling at my screen like tell them to sit on the couch with their hands on their fucking knees like get the fuck out of the house. But why are they having like this sort of bereavement ceremony already happening in the house, so we go back to the Ramsey's house twenty nine hours earlier to see how this all really played out for them. we see them. With the notes spread out on the floor and we hear Jon Benet say that's Mommy and Daddy. Mommy was missed West Virginia once. She let me at lots of pageants to. She said I looked so pretty in a t ARA. They don't really talk too much about the pageant stuff in this movie which I like because they really talked about that in the nineties, ally and I even think that it was inspiration for toddlers and Tiaras show which I love I think is a great show, but they almost in the ninety s like fetish is her were like Oh, she was wise beyond her years like. sexualize her in a way. That like was very uncomfortable. This was when news coverage was different, but not in this movie, but I'm glad they didn't talk too much about the pageant stuff. Yeah I think honestly most of the pageant. Steph speaks more to like a what's going on with Patsy. You know Germany was not like a super sexualize. In my I think that she was pageant. sexualize and most parents who put their kids in pageantry. are a little off. And maybe that's not necessarily fair true, but I agree. There's got to be something. Wrong with you if you're chasing Nah, but then again you know patsy was like in in the pageant. World herself like this is a thing in their family. I'm watching dirty John. Right now I'm recapping it for my quarantine podcast and I also listened to the. Full podcast. I'm like so behind the ball on it, but I cannot believe the sort of generational destruction that exists in not family that always like it it. Yeah has been so distracting mind-blowing for me and so frustrating that we're never going to get answers about that, either like we're never going to hear what the fuck is wrong with Arlene Deborah's mom. We're never going to know right. It's insane. okay, so this next clip is when the cops get there five twenty five to six three. Mr Ramsey listen care for your group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction. We respect your business, but not the country that it serves at this time. We have your daughter in our possession. She is safe and unharmed. If you want her to see nineteen, ninety seven, you must follow our instructions to the letter. Says they're being watched. Talk to the cops anyone has beheaded. Commander that word any point. You'll people treatment quarterback. Okay for other exit points. I mean if they're influential, doesn't trading them accordingly. Mean like giving their case extra care and treatment. Yeah, I, mean this. This ransom note is just insane like. It is found to be. Isn't. It found to be part of like a movie or something like that this the path of a movie. Yeah, so I forget exactly what movie it was, but John and patsy would watch the movie of the week every week, and this was never made a big deal of it was like an action movie, and some of the phrasing that was in the letter, was also from the movie, and it had like it was reminiscent of the plot a little bit. And that's. Exactly what the note sounds like. Wasn't it dirty? Rotten scoundrels or something something like that some very well known like crime movie. I almost I don't I thought it was like A. Like. Denzel, Washington type thriller, I don't know why I thought that I could look it up. but I'm holding my Mike and I really. I don't want to. I but in the future I will. I'll look that up and included in the description for sure so okay. That's that note is it sounds like two people trying to pull something off and doing too much on the process. Ya Yeah I think even if you WANNA, take it like as truth of what's inside it. The most crazy thing is that the ransom is one hundred eighteen thousand dollars, which is John Ramsey's the exact amount of his annual bonus at at work, which is just crazy, a yeah, and like he had just gotten it, but also I mean so. There is a little bit floated at some point about John Having a disgruntled employee who would maybe be privy to information like that, but. Why not ask for more like a child's worth way more than one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars like right. Given for inflation. I'm sure you know. The Colorado market is much different than Los Angeles one hundred eighteen thousand dollars seems like such. It's like petty cash to them I mean give me a million at least totally so The COP checks out around the house. He looks in the basement and like there's this door that he opens. That has some Kate some cans of paint on the floor, but the rest of the room is dark. And it's important to remember that so John Explains Basically. Jami went to bed that night after the Christmas party the cop notices as he's like sort of explaining this to him that there is a gigantic piece day in on her bed and he's like. Oh, she was a bad weather. And then gets like gives them a peek at Bir, who sleeping in his bed. The bed wedding thing has always I don't bummed me out. Dude like. At. What point that night did she pay? The bed legged at all a believer in the idea that. Patsy freaked out because she just said like sort of had it with like the bed wedding and it was you know she was late? I always wondered if they were drunker than they made. It seem when they came home from the Christmas party like I kind of feel like that does seem like a snap moment to me. Yeah maybe I never thought about it like that, but wasn't there something with Burke and feces like wiping feces on her or something like that, too, he yeah, he will burke one of his many behaviors that he displayed like playing with his shit and one time he did I. Think Wipe it on her wall and maybe even her bed, yeah! I don't think he you know I. Don't think he peed in her bed that day but I don't remember that being a huge thing like there was like pee on her nightgown or anything I. Don't writing that. That was a thing, so did they? Were they not changing her sheets I don't know I. Don't know, but they There's a lot of stuff in this movie that they don't really answer. Count four or come back to, and that's one of them. And then she also had male DNA in her underwear, which they don't really account for at all either so. It's. Never. Say while with me not that it should not like. There's anyone that should be like well. You know I can sleep tonight anyway. I mean that's pretty alarming stuff and she did show signs of like sexual trauma, essentially. and. got to wonder what the fuck was going on there I know what in the in the CBS Documentary Werner Spitz dismissed it or like whoever dismissed it as somebody who made it could be anything like that. The DNA could be the person who manufactured the underwear or something like that like what really? I don't know yeah, I mean if it was like new underwear and they took it straight out of the package and put it on her I could see that being a possibility. But yeah. I mean if they didn't have any any. More anything more substantial than that I. Don't know what they could do so patsy is making a big show of crying in the living room, and I say a big show because she quite obviously looks through her fingers to see if the COP is like watching her performance, I if I tried to cover up that my. Son had murdered my daughter. I wouldn't even I wouldn't even know how to act like I. Would I fuck in fumble that? Hard I would be the worst at lying about something like that. Oh my God. I think it didn't come naturally to them. Which is why they were just such odd characters, but The family friends show up the white family, and these are like they're BFF's. And PRISCILA, so you know the cops don't really say anything. When all these people charge into the living room till it come, hang out with them, which is always struck me as so that they even thought to invite friends over. And they stayed in the house, and supposedly they're waiting for this phone call. That's GONNA. Come from the people who are holding her hostage, the smaller and faction. Yeah, yes. So fleet looking for Jon Benet and he's calling her name around the house, and like this was just so bizarre, because like the way it was depicted like it's just like. Why would you do that like it seems so strange? at the stake seemed like it'd already escalated to a point that there was no way this little girl was hiding in the house. Lay Alive right, so he's bought a suitcase near a small window in the garage. Do you know what the? The name of those windows are now, but like little basement windows. Yeah, that's what I would call them in He sees a piece of glass next to the suitcase on the floor, and then he puts it on the window ledge. So there's DNA there now. That piece of evidence is compromised, and like you know at this point like these people are sort of young enough that they would probably be exposed in pop culture to the concept of tampering with a crime scene and I, think a lot of these things that were happening were accidental You know he probably just absent, mindedly picked up a piece of glass. Put It on the Ledge, but these are all the reasons why we have no fucking idea. What happened in that house, right? So patsy of retail is the story of how she realized. Dominate was missing, and it already doesn't align with the story that she told the COPS. The events are out of order. She originally said she checked her room and then came downstairs and found the note, and now she's telling Priscila that she came down. She found the note and then she checked her room. I. If this actually happened to me, I probably would have a hard time keeping track of everything that had happened i. You know it probably won't be the most reliable narrator myself, but flea continues to look around and he gets to like this. You know small room. That's mostly empty again. It's just a stray paint cans, so then John is going to wake up burke and send him to Flint House for the day. They don't want him to Oh. Upset Patsy as a really know what's going on, so the police go in and take photos of his room. Steve is like you know in the situation room at the station. Posting pictures of each one of them in setting up probably one of the most. Serial killer style like tracing map things that I've ever seen in a lifetime my God it was incredible incredible. It was insane. I know when you think about the sheer amount of information. We just had as the public about this case like I can't imagine God i. Wish I could read the indictment so. Yes, so then Jon Benet says these are the people who come when bad things happen to good people I wish they could help me remember what happened that night so I was soon that was some sort of like social worker, group or something, but then these people fucked up the crime scene more than anyone. It were advocates or something like victims advocates. They were called a yeah, and they all had like these sort of you knew they were because they had these name tags on, and I will say. I? Watched this movie on my computer. So you know it's obviously wasn't the most gigantic screen, but a problem for me throughout this movie. Is that the lighting? Makes people look different in every scene like I couldn't have seen Steve's face more fucking times in more confused about it like every single time. I saw him I just thought he was another detective same. Because they also didn't do a great job of like establishing the names of people like someone who I'm just referring to my notes, Steve's partner, but I don't know who the fuck. He is like who the guy was glasses. The guy with a beard who looks like TV Dad Yeah with the yeah I know who you mean maybe says I don't know I. That's always a problem in granted. This is based off of real life, so they were probably aiming to achieve more than they were like to establish different people, but yeah, so they asked a fleet to return the camera with. The photos that they took from dinner the night earlier. So Flint in a fleet and Burgo like they ride together, and you know he's keeps looking in the back seat at Burke and sees that he's just sort of shocked out he doesn't seem to really care or begins -cerned most kids would be asking a million questions if they were woken up with police on their home. And you know he's basically laid berkshires concerned about his video games. Burke doesn't give a shit about anything like that. It's it's what's so crazy about this kid. Is that people you know? Keep talking about how burke like you know. Always just a kid like kids react differently. I think most kids are mostly inquisitive. Yeah, he's a burke is a weird little dude I. Don't know if he's like on the autism spectrum or what, but he's fucking weird. Yeah I. Agree died with the theories that he might be more on the spectrum because it's just. It's like the most generous thing. I can do honestly Mr. -ssume. That he's neuro atypical so another detective at seven fifty four PM so Linda. This is where Jami introduces us to Linda who was the one running the House that day and she said she seems like she's really nice like she really cares so. Flee wants to know are maybe there's another family friend there I get. I couldn't tell these fucking people. People. Yeah wants to know. If the note was written after midnight. They're going to be calling the next day. in Linda's like well either way. It can't hurt to have the whole setup here so we can do this in like what about the nineteen? What about foreign faction like Any of those things mean anything to you? John They're both boches like I. Don't fuck a now, so then patsy says he was their housekeeper because she did recently ask for a raise, and she didn't get it, and she has a key and at that point I was like fuck you like, don't want. My housekeeper is like my fucking best friend dude. I can't imagine selling out your housekeeper at a time like this Shosha. But so yeah, so anytime. The police like pick something up in the house to like bring it to evidence or even like dust for fingerprints. One of these victim advocates like comes along and wipes it up like they're actively destroying this crime scene so the white family That's their PRISCILA patsies. Best friend looks kind of suspicious about what she's seeing. Something about all. This doesn't sit well with patsy. Something doesn't sit well without Patricia. Basically. She's watching patsy preying on the couch and she's just sort of like. It seems like odd behavior to her. And it is like when you when you know your best friend and all of a sudden. They're like taking notes from a different playbook. That's something. Only a best friend would really know. I think in this moment we get the weird zoom in as well where like throughout this whole first part? She's wearing patsies wearing this gigantic cross, and then when she finds out her daughter is dead. We got a weird legs zoom in on her face, and her robot is as she's praying, and it's so fucking creepy to me. Dude and not seen. She literally looked like Khloe Feinman. I think that's her name. Khloe is crazy. She's like what we doing. A character very would yeah. Yeah. It was completely manic, so. What's Your Face Priscilla? Start like has a little vision of Daffy her daughter and Jon Benet running running up to show them their friendship bracelets and sort of thinking about how they're gone now and yeah Giannini says that once her best friend Daphne hit his Joe but that morning when she was hiding, it wasn't a joke. okay, thanks. Jon Benet things checking in so Steve's taking in evidence in his office, and it's clear that he has no idea what's going on, but he obviously knows something is very wrong here and Steve Lake Road for this case so hard. That's what this I mean that's with. This movie is telling me basically. and. It's always important to know like what who your hero is in the story because that's like completely, that's where the biased comes from especially in a lifetime movie, they can only go so much to like sort of nuances things so The COP collects one of the cops. There collects the writing samples from John and Patsy and the handover the pads of paper Ham. So at this point patsy so upset that she's throwing up and Linda in another cop, who I don't know his name either, but he's. Like a big gruff sorta like a leathery guy Detective Franquin so he says you know. Basically they should release anyone that doesn't need to be there so that there could be a strategy session. Many leaves it on Linda to basically like hold down the fort, and this was one of the other totally fatal errors because he's you know I think he's going to go interview, Burke or something at the fleets. House but. Let's. He leaves her alone. She tries to get them to all stay in one room and just like keep the foot traffic to a minimum in patsies. Crying is finally calmed. A little bed and Linda wants to interviewer about the housekeeper, but then patsy says she's had like a change of heart probably couldn't be the housekeeper I mean it doesn't even look like her writing, so then PRISCILA comes into the room and I think we should change on bananas sheets. And Linda's just like dude. I want like. How can I stop you people? So at that point? She gets up and starts looking for John and you know there's plenty of DNA being spread everywhere. Eventually, she finds John at the kitchen table, and he's just like nervously tapping his foot in rereading the letters from the kidnappers, and that nervous sort of leg motion. Dude, own my God. There's nothing I hate more in life than. I can't stand tapper. Triggers Mesa Fonje for shore? But like there's something about a fidget or that? Really it really gets nerves so she asked him He's like you know. Have you ever seen? John like this. She asked fleet and he's like you know. I've never seen him in a situation quite like this. And, so he's still totally on his side. At this point, really trying to process what's going on here but yeah, so fleet and John Linda for some reason tells fleeting John Why don't you go just like look around in the basement one more time? And then he's asked John About the broken window and John Explains at sometimes over the summer he broke his window to let himself in, and he's been meaning fix that, so he leaves the room and he goes looking in the others, and there's one door almost at the end of the hall that has lake basically a latch on top of it that you could really only open. If you were tall enough to like, reach it It's completely like makeshift, and I think that is one of the bigger things that has been going for like Burke, not doing this. South but he has. We looks into the room, which is just as dark as any other time we've seen it. which is the same paint Cam Room? And he screams God, and so he's sees the body in the pitch dark, and that was another thing with fleet. Was that he? Later on, said like. How did he know? The body was in there before you turn on the way? Right away. The dude just fucking mangles the little girl's body like he goes ripping the duct tape off. I could never imagine doing not to a dead body I would be afraid to tear the skin. I don't know why this was his reaction. Other than obviously was intentionally tampering with the crime scene, but it just seems so bizarre, so he carries her upstairs in. Linda sees that he's coming down the hallway with the body, and she's I. Put the put the body down. Put the buddy down. Don't touch anything. And then patsy comes over and she is. She's balling and she's like you know trying to put her hands on the kid and it's just like. No. One's going to get that perfectly I understand. But. I mean. I thought this body scene was so gruesome and so disgusting and I hated it, and I do not want because the body. They showed her full now dead body, and she was blue and bleeding, and it's like I don't need any of that I. Know this was like we're already hearing her creepy voice I don't need her light blue dead body. You know what I mean. No, absolutely, because that's like one thing that we've never really been privy to with the state of her body when she was found and. At that point, she had been dead for hours. So like rigor, Mortis like there was some of the earlier signs of like a body decaying, and it was very graphic like i. don't feel like there was any reason to this show. Close ups of that and make it worse than it already wise I feel like this poor girl has been. As much as they desperately want to know what happened with her and I understand all the fanfare. I can't understand like I don't know if there is another side. If she is up in heaven, watching us right now I just feel so bad for her late away. What she's have to had to watch play out about her life. Whatever I mean, it's just it's bizarre. It's it's honestly this case blows my mind so. But. But speaking speaking the latch. Documentary. They say that they think that the. John Helped Burke moves the body or something that maybe she, he that Burke may have killed her in a different room, and then moved her down to their, and that's how he knew is in there, and that's how like he could reach the latch that that was just there. Yeah I mean I I. Don't think it's like a huge mystery that he put her down there at all like I think that he was killing time till it seemed long enough for though investigated the body I mean they did show him sort of taking a passing look in some of the other rooms, but he definitely walked to that door and I think that I remember fleet talking about because obviously fleet Priscila are no longer friends with the ramseys. Wind up feeling like right away like they needed to. About a year in days are to take a real stand, and we see that in this movie but I mean he was said you know. I feel like John just walked straight back to that door like almost as if he was ready to unveil that the body was still there so Linda's basically on the phone at this point demanding back up at the house, because the crime scene is Ben just completely obliterated There's even a priest there now, Let's say twenty one forty three to twenty three minutes. Yes now. All alone here. He didn't mean to kill her. He grabbed her. Thank. Know A-. Pre. School. Got To be an inside job. No No No. You. Probably my. Most iconic lifetime cry. We've seen in yours like Tori. Spelling could never unbelievable, so it's unclear to me whether this is bad acting or whether this is actors acting like the parents are overdoing it. Does that make sense. Yeah No, it totally makes sense. I mean they are portraying to the best of their ability. It's also you know that's very lifetime. That's very brand with lifetime. Just started these like half baked performances like people you know in so. Acting Chops. There they work with the material. They're given. You know what I mean. I always have a really hard time. Pinpointing who to blame I'm, is it? The acting is the directing. Is it the writing? I think a lot of times. It is direction in these movies that make it really suffer, but I think they use non union actors, too. So I think it's getting to. sometimes they use non-union Canadian day players, but for the most part a lot of these people have very full careers. Really, let's Look Patsy Ramsey. She's play by Julia Campbell who was Christine masters in Romi Michelle's. Wow. Do like. She's the one She's like the main bitch in that movie. She's done. You know she's. She's done a lot of series Tell me a story. The resident she was on Awkward Recovery Road Austin, and Allie she's worked a decent amount. She had a really long role on Dexter seems like like a six episode arc. well to be clear I didn't think the acting in this lifetime movie was bad I. Think this scene is bad. That's why I think is acting the actors making the choice to play like the parents are overdoing it. Yeah well I. Mean that's that's sort of the theatrics of it all for sure lack, it's you know. I started to wonder especially during the scene when John then flips and says it has to be an inside job. Like what did he mean by that? Like who who is under the umbrella of being inside and I start to wonder like did they brainstorm on just like weird ass theories to potentially throw out. I don't know, but it's crazy, but what I'm wondering is. Do you think like what's with the window the broken window? Do you think he did that? On purpose to make it look like there was an intruder. I think that he was actually I. think that they were very lazy about certain aspects of their home. No I think it's totally plausible that he forgot his keys imbroglio window. That's something like homeowners do. Hopefully not all the time, but it's. It's not unheard of like you know. The the door didn't have great. Reinforce locks like patsy didn't check any that stuff. They very much lived a sheltered life. I was more worried honestly when I when I saw that he had let that broken window. Go for so long that. The fucking temperature in your house. Dude, like what about just like having the elements come inside your house sold. But. Let it go for that long like you have too much potential for help to not replace that God damn. Window, But! Yeah, so Patsy has taken. You know that. Diaz's Pam or whatever and she is completely passed out on the floor. and John Sort of cries as he watches her on the floor and the next day at work Linda's. You know this. This is cutting back to where we started Linda's hugging. But what happened that morning? The detectives and we get a rare Swear so I'M GONNA. Play that scene as well. It's twenty three twenty, two to Twenty Six oh six. Shit Store I was at the autopsy this morning and there's a six year old girl with an eight inch crack in her skull in a garage around her neck, and you know what they're trying to figure out. Which one of those kilter! And when and what and for how long someone was shoving something inside of her signs of sexual abuse. The parents have any idea a few, but. We can't talk to them since. We thought it was a kidnapping. These are influential people. Everyone was treating it all with kid gloves hugging the body cleaning up emergency. I moved the bodies. It's all contaminated I. don't even know why. We're here to see you. MR, Ramsey. You walk away from an active crime seat. They're getting my plane writing. I have important business in Atlanta under daughter. We we have unfinished business here. You can't go to Atlanta or anywhere else can stay here another moment. We obviously have to talk to you. Your wife and your son. You'll stay with us. Just two. Weeks. Most our daughter. Home. Steps. John Andrew and Melinda. Are Older sister died in car accident. I know most stories only have one bad thing happened that this is in the story. This is real life. Lots of bad things happen in real life. At least in mine. This is a mistake. Who should be taking them downtown separating? Commanders call. Him Where are you going? Wow so manipulation on on the part of John to like not just trying to skip town, but then when they're like. No, you have to stay. Your daughter was just murdered. He's like please. My daughter was just murdered. Do like there's no I'm sorry, it's not convenient. Leg I i. You know I have to say it can't be probably any more convenient than on December twenty six for your daughter to get murdered brutally in your house, but like these are the things you gotta do guys. You GotTa talk to the police. You got to cooperate. You know this is in the best interest of finding out what happened your daughter unless you don't want people to find out what happened to your daughter, but no, they don't because they're rich way people so they can do whatever they want. Obviously. I know their wealth was I mean. This guy has a plane at his fingertips and you're telling me. They wanted a hundred and eighteen thousand dollars like on. So we we'll go ahead. Do you think it's that the other daughter died, too? I don't think it's sauce I mean. I don't think that like John had anything to do with his daughter's car accident, but it definitely increases the stakes for why they would want to make sure the burke was protected. Yeah, I don't know any of the details surrounding that car accident like I wonder if that was, there was something fishy about that as well. Yeah, I think that I looked into that in the past in like from what I remember it was you know just your everyday car crash? Don't think it was like faulty brakes or something, or but Yeah I mean. I was thinking about that as this clip was playing in terms of like the burke of it all like what happens if a nine year old murder someone. Is Healing especially view if he got hit over the hat like she got hit over the head and that was the. If? If they had just admitted it then this would all be over like burke would be out of Juvie, or whatever, and like we all would have forgotten about this case by now, and he could have a normal life. Totally and I mean to your other point. They are a wealthy white family like they can really sort of buy their way out of this evenly. We'll send him somewhere. That's really good and like incentivize him to not give them. Some sort of like juvenile detention sentences like I mean. This sounds like it could have been an accident in a lot of ways if he really did take his train track, and like you know, stab her head with it. I think that that is something that just sounds like a kid freaking out. Except this time it was fatal, and he definitely liked to beat up on his sister immediate hitter with a golf club in the yard the summer before like this is a kid that resorts to strange tactics in violence to get attention for sure You know he probably did need some sort of reforming. Yeah! And it's. It's scarier that he's out on the street than anything I mean if I. If that was my child, I would like to think that I would. I would get them help instead of protecting them and keeping them in a bubble all these years. Yeah I when the CBS documentary aired. His social media was still. Public, it wasn't private yet. So is able to see like his instagram twitter and it was like mundane. There's nothing to note really so which makes me think he's even more on the spectrum for some reason. Right. Like lives very unaffected by this, and it's just sort of. Boring person exactly I mean that's what I got from his appearance on Dr Phil. The really Erie smiling and sort of the lack of emotion. It was really just You know it was unsaddling because he. was He seems so normal I. Mean this guy has a girlfriend? Yeah, yeah? I mean imagine signing, I know that one can get a boyfriend I know that anyone wants to date. You know there's always going to be someone for someone like this is even maybe attracted to the fact that he's burke. Ramsey, but I cannot imagine like calling it. My mom being lake, young dating a really great guy. actually is jumping as brother. Where the where the detective or leather daddy went was to go see burke at the Fleas House and you know he's sitting at the table, drinking a glass of milk and eating a sandwich and you know having no problem with his appetite is a normal conversation, and he says that he woke up in his dad said was missing, and he has no idea. Idea when he woke up, he never heard anything that nate. He says he went to bed. Any heard the like you know. Normally at night, the only noisy here's the water heater scame He said there was no arguing in. He said that his he like he then reiterates his father woken up and that John Jami was missing And, then he goes we are we still going to Michigan and the actors? Like what are you guys do in Michigan and he's like. Oh, go water skiing and you know he's going over like the fun activities they do and the detective tries to like. Circle it back and get back into the questions that are necessary and he's like. Can I go play video games, so he is not? I can't imagine any child would be excited to have this conversation, but it's like they're pointing to colors like asking him you know like would. Very late questioning. Yeah and then the thing that gets me later and I don't know and I. It's one of those moments where I can't tell if it's historical footage from the interview, or if it's recreated footage as when he asks one of the detectives if he's wearing a rolex. That's wild. Yeah, that's all recreate. The original videos are available online from Lake. The original questioning that was released. Released when the documentaries were made a few years back in I mean he is completely blase in those interviews as well while his big on changing the subject, like doesn't understand the seriousness of why he's there which you know if he is innocent, and all of this good for him to not have to focus on the horror of his sister. Be murdered like you know that's. That is a coping mechanism is one so Yeah? The cops replayed the nine one one call, and they start to fixate on the part of the call where patsy didn't hang up. And this is the nine one one operator, basically bringing it to them and saying there's something really weird about this call in. It sounded like her voice, but not so. So hysterical and she was talking to someone nearby, so they decided that this is gonna be their big thing. This is going to be the secret that they keep. Cops always have to keep a couple of secrets and the FBI in secret service. Will you know they're the ones who typically handle something like this? So then they go to see the forensic. Handwriting Expert Guy which I love. We had a movie about a handwriting expert and it was I loved it. I love it when I can geek out on someone else's profession. It's the best part of Lake, any law and order when they go, see the Emmy So. They you know. He basically says like the war of ransom notes like normally people just get to the point and say like I need this much money or I'm gonNA. Kill Your Kid and then he notices that on the pad that was handed into them with the handwriting samples. There's a page if you flip back that says Mr Mrs so basically you know practice. For the note that wind up getting handed in, and it's a very different style of handwriting So then that's when he realizes that the pad that he has with the samples from John and Patsy is the same one that was The same that the note was written on it lines up perfectly so the detective. Steve he watches videos of Germany's pageants and home life and I mean this guy through his life. Into this case, it seems like he would return to these tapes all the time. The point where I was like come on Steve like. How many more times you have to watch her with the hose and the Yard Lake? There's no evidence in. It. Seems like you already are fund enough of this girl. You don't need to remind yourself fat. And To your. To to your point about the ransom, no, they say in the CBS documentary that. No killer. It's GonNa. Sit there and write out like three pages of ransom like if they're an intruder and write out this long ass, ransom note when they're trying to take the kid and get some money and leave, of course not like that's the biggest loophole in the story is. How like you know especially because some of the language that was used in there like that's no one's like natural narrative and writing style. So There's you know they're looking through the fleet family and the cops are looking to the same sort of pictures or having a little film. Moment there were there inter cutting the two of them. There is one where burke is like looking back with a little bit of contempt and there's another one where you just totally disconnected from his mom in her. In that picture and it's very clear that Johnny was the favorite child, so we see a flashback to that night of You know Christmas when Jami in the family are leaving oh. Sorry, they're playing the fleet's daughter Daphne Germany playing together then we see a moment of Patsies goofing around, and she sets the table like this is where the fleets are starting to remember some of these things in just how normal it all seemed in how it didn't line up with what they saw the next day. and Fleet comes in and says that the RAMSEYS lawyer wants to talk with them. you know because they always go for the parents I? Daily decide to engage their lawyer have their back. In Priscilla turns to him and says that her bed patsies bed didn't look slept in that night and Patsy was wearing the same outfit that she was wearing the night before, and she thinks that she probably didn't go to bed at all that night. Going back to their last memory, she flashes back to the family, leaving the House on Christmas night in Germany, getting merry Christmas. She's carried out in her dad's arms. I? I hate it. I hate the flashbacks I hate. It's awful. It's also awful, because like kids are just the worst fucking actors. Every play the scene with Daphne when they tell her that she's no longer with us but i. mean it's just so awful when the kids have to act these movies because I just I got shit on them late. They just they don't really have a place in a movie like this. When like the directing and all that stuff isn't really they're the. There's just no place for a child so now we're on day three. It's to eighteen PM. The detectives pull up to Fleets House the White. and. Let's play this clip. Thirty, one, zero, nine, thirty, two, zero nine. This is what. Yes detectives. Thomas and gossage but the. Do, you mind if we ask you a couple of questions. We already talked here your colleagues. Why not everyone else has? Just missed the last bunch. Some private investigators from Johns lawyers. Want they want. Basically know what we'd already told you or anyone else. Are they concerned about something? I. Guess You'd have to ask them. Stir White. This is why I want you to know that in cases like this, it's natural to look at the immediate family. I eliminated. That's what Johnson's lawyers are for. The shift focused where it should be. An. Where's that? You're the police. You don't have any leads. In College. I mean like they're old friends in a weird way and something happened between them the way that Steve and the white family are talking I mean it's interesting to see how quickly the whites knew something was off. It seems like Priscilla knew when she walked into the House that day. Then not everything was adding up right away, she knew. And the amount of screen time she's given shows like. Were you know supposed to? Glean that she now as well. So yeah. That same day, the Ramsey show up to give their DNA the forensic team, and of course they bring their lawyer who make it clear that you know it's their legal right to just give their DNA and not be questioned or anything like that, so they show a team of people that are there to take everyone's DNA It's basically like a security cam moment where they're showing. It's they're very artistic or lifetime, and then you know we see Patsy John Berg. Enter than we see the stepsiblings or there to John, the first to go and then we go to four twenty three a m, I don't know why. OPM, sorry Ramsey family provides his friends example so we can see. Prince hair saliva samples blood. At one point they do a cut in on someone's tongue and dude like rush your tongue doing a close on your. Police. That is your tongues moment to shine. I! Don't know if we were supposed to understand. These characters are extremely hydrated after days of crying. Dobbin is never going to be a tongue model ever. Yeah, it was really it was really unfortunate, because they also had a lot of tongues to pick from, and for some reason, they decided to spotlight that one, so they decided to take photos of everyone, and just to have them on the record in Burke is smiling and his photo. I mean the step siblings just like dead inside on looks little concerned, but then patsy her photos a little bit more haunting than that. It's off, so she's a little off center in frame again. She totally looks like a Khloe firemen, impression and I think. It's this actress. The more I look at her. The more I kind of think it's brilliant that they cast a comedic actress in this movie to play at sea but that night the white family on the decided to break the news to their daughter that Jon Benet has passed. I'm surprised. They got away with it for like four days And then in. We're after that we're going to hear clip of day. Four Johnny is funeral, and then we're going to hear patsy like it's also patsies birthday, and then we're gonNA. Hear that there's cops watching everything and it's already turning into a media circus. This is a longer clip. We're GONNA play thirty, three, Fifty, eight to thirty, six fifty. Five something to tell you. Could make you feel really sad inside. But it's OK. Dumping is gone. Liamine trump needs gone. To Heaven Sweetie. She coming back. What happened to her? She nobody knows for sure. Today's Mommy's birth. That's. and. Let us say Ahmet. Off! Please let the family pass, and then join US afterwards for reception. Housekeeper. His handwriting looks nothing really out. Attacked Him. A couple of questions, please. It's an active investigation. You know we can't comment. The chief is going to call a press conference all right thanks I. Just have a moment of your time, please. Is it true you're ransoming the body for an interview? The body's going to Atlanta today for a funeral on Tuesday. The, Ramseys! told her that. Here comes around shot. Talk To daughter morning. August. Let's y'all. Let's go through it so. Daphne God bless her I really. I didn't need to hear from a kid in this movie really. Brought from mood. A little bit I will say that. I think it's kind of unbelievable that. The white family stayed through like all of this now I understand like. Now isn't really the time to disown your friend, but like how how painful that must've been for them to sort of go through every moment of the funeral process in the beginning of this knowing already that there's something off, your best friends may have murdered their daughter totally so weird. And also in this last seen here with the media, we sort of established that there are some internal leaks in the police department that are going out and this was a huge thing. I mean the amount of press. That this case, Scott and the new development that happens you know I. Remember all the way through that summer. After this murder happened, books were already out, and you know like those paperback books that they saw at every grocery store, just laying the first person. You know at like the amount of police cooperation with the media was really disturbing for the lack of what we know to be like the lack of sort of evidence in results. They got out of this and it makes me think like of Laurie, Valo even. Where like you know we're just I don't know forever. Really GonNa know what happened there because we're dealing with people who keep secrets. And you know Steve I have to say come on Steve. Where are you sending the media? After the Ramseys at their daughter's funeral laying my gosh like go ask them like I. Don't really think this is the time Steve but. I think we all know they're liars, but the next time it's day six There are Marietta Georgia. They're laying her to rest and burke is really a motionless funeral kind of checked out then. Patsy you know leans down whispers something into his ear, and sort of sends him toward the casket, and you really starts to tear up. A BET and patsy looks on sort of almost smiling and. I gotTa know what she said to him like. Do you think she's like you killed your sister? The least you can do is go take a by. I thought it was so weird that she was smiling like that shot was so creepy to me. And, but also it is problematic to like go so much off of the behavior of people. A tragedy happens because you don't know how you're GONNA. React like when you're a kid. I don't know like when my grandparents died I was like. I didn't really care you know what I mean like. You can't plot this. The emotions and the gravity of everything that's happening, so it's hard to like. Base it off that you know. I totally agree. I think the only issue here with that is like it's. It's difficult to process weird on weird lab if they weren't just weird to begin with, there would be much more of like a curveball, or like a grace given to them, or you're just sort of like like they're going. You know they're. They're going through it lake. People grieve differently. It's almost like you know sort of like the Scott Peterson. Chris Watson fact, it's just the attention. The way that they interact with attention is so strange. they liner. In they, they're telling on themselves and I think that that is the part where you they love it like why who would love this? Like what kind of people would love this? You know you know who I love. This is people who put their daughters pageant and name their daughter their own names. I know I know. Jon Benet was named after John Bennett Ramsey. It's not even like a French thing. It's like a combined. Jon Benet Jon Benet Patricia Ramsey and Patricia was the mother so like they are narcissist. That's the kind of people that love this attention. I do love that. She is the first like famous person in my world that had like a made up name. Lake at this like now. It's sort of like par for the course like the Mormons are out here naming their kids like insane shit. Happens all the time like God Jessica from Nineteen Kids, and counting named her son spurgeon Oh. I saw that, but that's some Mormon history person or some Shit I. Don't know Taller Lady, but like it's just not. Easy on the ears or the mouth, no. It's. It's just like you know it's. It's a real choice and I always was sort of fascinated by this particular choice. Because the name works, it works. We've said it for years but yeah, it was. It was really the first like sort of. Time. I'd ever seen anything like that before. That's. So patsies, mother, and like you know I. Guess The older kids from John's first marriage. They're all in her living room, watching the news and her mom's living room is basically a museum of patsies pageantry life. That's also where I'm a little bit feeling Arlene from dirtyjohn vibes, because I'm like you know. Maybe this is just what patsy knows. Maybe she was a narcissist who was raised by a narcissist. You know maybe. You know to patsies credit although I think she's being a little, you know it. It was a little strange as she handled that she comes in. You know basically shut the TV off and says like you know there are children here, and she gives everyone in the room like a really filthy look. That just felt very late. Shame on you, but it also seemed very. seemed to come from like. Like a narcissistic place like the way that the actress played Yeah, it was like a hurt. It was more of just like how fucking like how dare you made me. It made me kind of scared of her in that moment. I was like I wouldn't be shocked if everyone in her family was a little bit scared of her. Yeah I was yeah. This has a lot of secrets. For sure. Should scary regrets and well okay so back to the garage. We haven't even touched on it, but okay so patsies. Dodd was a sailor and he was in the navy. Boats were life in his house and the garage. It was always you know such a strange thing. That wasn't a boy scout. Not It wasn't a not that you would really know unless you had some sort of maritime experience in your past, and a lot of people are pointing to the fact that Patsies Dad's headstone there. There is like an engraved not on that headstone so like. Maybe they were a big, not family. Who their big heads I never heard that. Yeah like I was wondering lake either this family fucking love some knots, or they pulled out a book, and like figure it out how to make that thing like I. But where would they have? Like what would be the resource and like who even really knows how to do something like that? It's not a common skill you know. Burke is like up in his room like reading a book on knots and like trying to think of ways to kill his sister. You know that that's the kind of kid that does that Shit. Right, no absolutely I. of course, that's my opinion. Please don't sue me Burke Ramsey. No I totally agree. He's that kid who's like on his neck. Shit like I raised a bunch of money to buy kids Christmas presences here through operation. Santa and you have to like pick. The letter. In like be like okay I'm adopting this kid. And so I adopted this kid just because his only Christmas, wishes were a metal detector and a safe. Yeah, and I was Oh, he's just on his next level like he's worried about. He's an entrepreneur. Like of course I bought him. Both I wrote the parents a card. I gave them the other key because I was just like. I. Don't trust him. I don't trust Nikki in his. You know metal detector by the way Nikki, if for some reason you're listening to this, reach out to me. It breaks my heart that I'll never know you kids. Oh! Yeah. That was the hardest part is like I'm never going to know them. Girl like a kind of destroys me because I feel like I know them, he. Seems really cool though that Kitson's really cool that he is bad ass. Like I always think that way, too I just didn't have I i. don't think anyone would entertain me honestly. That's kind of why I had to take him up on it. Because I was like no one's going to buy you this school, but. okay so. John Talks with fleet the next day. WHO's basically just trying to reason with him and giving him the optics on everything like this is his friend. That cares about him enough to take time and be like this is looking really bad. I'M GONNA. Play this scene, but like just you know sort of the kindness in. Honestly that this would take I think that I would have a hard time even leveling with my best friend four days after their kid was murdered and be like you look terrible. Okay so thirty, eight, forty, nine to forty, fifty eight. Hiding behind lawyers. And Crisis Management firms is not the answer John. You look like Oj in the Bronco. We're not confident in how the police are handling this. We're GONNA put up a fifty thousand dollar reward for information. Like Oj? What you do. In the next twenty four hours is going to define the rest of your life. You need to come back to boulder and talk to the police. Patsy needs to talk to them we do. We all do to find out what happened to Jon Benet. You're making it look like. You're involved. And we're going to tell them we're not. We've made arrangements to go on CNN CNN. Get all this cleared up. Stop, it from getting out of control. You need to talk to the police not CNN. please. As your friends? For the both of Burke. Come back to boulder. Mommy Daddy went on TV. It was the first time most people saw them. But on TV mommy doesn't even sound like herself. And she looks so sad. We are also assuming investigative team. To assist. We want to find. The best. Minds, This country has to offer. There is a killer on the lose. I don't know who it is. I. Don't know if it's a he or she. But if I were a resident of Boulder. I. Tell my friends. To keep. I mean I. Don't think it was the TV that was making your mom. sound funny Jon Benet but I need okay so many things here I have to say. They bring up a very good thing, fleet and Priscila about OJ. And realizing that this was post OJ sort of. Makes me, really think about. Like where people were with the justice system at that point in sort of what rich people could get away with with enough complications in lawyers because it would have been difficult to. Especially when the evidence, it would have been really difficult to get a jury to make a decision about this, and of course you know a jury did later. Make a decision about this, but I think at that point so much time had passed that. People just wanted it behind them, and it was so obvious I mean I think it would be almost impossible to have a jury that wasn't tampered with in some capacity in a case like this, but it really you know it really made me think lake. Oh God like. Did they sort of? Did they sort of know that they would probably just be able to get away with us if they tied up legal stuff like was OJ the blueprint i. think when that that friend said this? You're doing this just like OJ, they a part of their brains just went like Ding Ding Ding. We can be like OJ. This mom's in pageants. She wants to be famous. She's like she was Miss West Virginia's like. Of course they want the notoriety. My opinion of course I don't know. and. Also it's the CNN of it. All like that would have been truly not like. The beginning of the end hadn't already happened. That would be the very beginning of the end for me seeing that they were more willing to talk to the people in the news, and like sort of recover their public image than they were about finding the killer of their daughter. It just seems so disingenuous to be honest in like their logic is obviously flawed So you know that that news scene was so uncomfortable like neither of them were necessarily groomed for this just because you were missed. Wisconsin or whatever? It doesn't mean you know how to successfully true. All into thinking you know. Oh well. She's clearly an ascend and. I! DuNno I don't know, but the fans dude Zana's. Pop in weight and also this was a time in history. When like? Our attention was much less fragment fragmented. We weren't. We didn't have a million streaming services. We didn't have TIKTOK. We didn't have all this other shit to look at so people were watching the OJ trial. People were watching the Jon Benet. It was like the thing that people were watching and looking at. It was everywhere at the time. So of course they like loved it. Yeah because you could be a celebrity. Your being involved in some night at people this our nation was like totally dialed into true crime. At this point, it was like a little bit of the true crime like heyday heyday. But yeah, so it's Day twelve now in the media is worse than ever they ask some detective. Coming in I, believe might be the chief, but again these people are fucking impossible to tell apart. And they say you know. The ramseys aren't avoiding the police at all like to actually answered questions for us, and then we see Steve on hot on his heels when he comes in. He's basically like they are not cooperating with us. They gave us a list of. Questions with yes or no answers, and now they're saying that they're. Memories are basically wiped tra- not morning. At this point He tells Steve. You Know Oh. You're too caught up in this. You got to focus on other people like what about John's disgruntled employees and Steve's like listen if they they need to bring him, burke or they're going to have CPS at their door, and he's like a youth threatening them and Steve's like. No, it's the fucking law in Colorado. which by the way where isn't that a law like? Where wouldn't that be a so burke? Please gas who I love that guests who shout out with the child psychologist and it seems like he's in a relatively good mood and she asked him you know. Do you normally wake up when you hear something? And he says yeah, like the French doors but that night nothing woke up. French doors, not particularly loud doors. Mellow and not historically known as loud doors so. You know he says he's you know it's hits. He's been okay since it happened. He feels safe and she's like well. Do you know what happened? He's I. Guess she was killed You know someone either quietly went down to the basement, and they took a knife or they banged. You're on the head in a psychologist is like well. Why don't you like? Do you think that that would happen to you need says no, so at this point I don't know if this was intentional. Intentional or not, but it was brilliant, because like this is where we get to see that. Burke has a temper, and it comes out of nowhere, and it's really fast. She they both have liked cans of Dr Pepper on the table where she's interviewing him, and she picks up his and takes a sip of it, and he's like that's mine. I can't drink it now. He's very You know I would have never spoken to an adult like that as a kid. Ever let alone. No Mr? Something in a situation like this. I probably wouldn't touch my drink again. I was torn as well on whether that was intentional or not because like. How could it not be intentional? But then that's a weird thing to do. Like how maybe she's trying to make him mad. I was torn not as well and I. also do want to say that guests who was a very. Of the moment game, so it's perfect. I loved guests who to I. It was just fun to watch someone else. Play it again. made me want to get some guests. Who My life again you know I think the only reason why I would love to believe it was intentional is because. She needed to disarm him some way Whether or not this kid has armour on unclear. It seems like he's just generally unfeeling, but. Either way. It's like kind of it's is probably one of the better things that came out of Burke. Being interviewed is to see how he gets so hot all of a sudden. So, this is the seem you were talking about earlier. When patsy in Linda are talking in like it seems like some sort of cafe that's attached to precinct dirt wherever they are and we're going to hear after that a group of detectives examined the drying that birth, and yes, don't worry I. Take a screen shot of the drawings we. We love bad sketches on this show, so let's play forty four fourteen to forty, five, forty seven. Thought. This would be quicker. Spend up their rooms. Can you're? I. Can't tell you hold. It's left and me. John's at work irks going back to school. Shopping. To me. Filing trumpy. I can't have any more children. I had cancer surgery. I'm sorry. I Lost Burke. I would have no reason to go on living. They don't want to take him from you patsy. They just ask him some questions. The plane implies remoteness distance. Small Stature patsy insignificance powerlessness. The fact that Jon Benet at all. We can have after the murder. It's interesting cycle battle. It's not it that's. When he told the dock, he was just getting on with his life. He's nine. We're getting. Teen calls a day from kids who were afraid. This is gonNA happen to them. And this kid just down the hall from where it did happen. He's no scared at all. What gets the same thing I said about John? There's no such things no behavior after trauma like this. Evidence. I. This is a perfect scene to explain exactly what I needed by. Everyone Looks Sameness movie. The Guy was exhibiting. The drawing is about I'd probably say like six one. He's wearing a blue button down shirt with a darker tie and he has a beard and Brunette hair. Then the person's talking to playing devil's advocate in this movie. Who is just hits? The exact right spot of my nerves I can't take a person. He is also about the same height wearing the same colored shirt also as a beard like. If you're not paying super close attention, it almost looks like Hey, are the same actor playing against each other I? While I was watching this I was like. Why didn't they have a more diverse cast? But then I was like Oh, it's history. It's like actually what happens, so they had to right, I. Know It's like like throw a hat on someone. Make someone had guy gives the guy. For the love of God. Like there's so many ways to give someone a personality like Oh. Is that the guy who like randomly loves to WEAR WOMEN'S BROACHES? Like just get? There's give him something. Give him a little something, but I mean it was also. It's Colorado Lake we have to buy like how not diverse is department probably was yeah so. You know I can't stand this devil's advocate guy. It's like, but they're necessary people in society, right? You have to have that journalist. Who's going to poke a hole in anything because that's what a lawyer will do, that's what a good defense will do. You know. Do you think the drawing was psycho. babble like I. DON'T I? Don't think it's admissible in court, but I think like writing that off well fair. It's like it kind of also shows what time we were in this world with like what we consider to be. Waited to something bigger. Yeah, I think I think the word psychobabble is a very nineties term as well and very like. So dismissive. To that drying and like. More, it is more route revelatory of who he is so yeah. The Psycho Psycho hearing psycho battle I was like Oh. That's such a misogynistic, dismissive, shitty little term. I hate that. Right I know I totally agree, but at the same point I'm like I guess maybe they could dislike they. A defense lawyer could absolutely dismiss the idea of like drawing me meaning anything. Yeah a good one. Effect that John was flying pitcher is fucking crazy like not even a plane, just flying web it. So now they have the nine one one call in the hands of the big boys all right, and they're going to play the tape for Steve With enhanced audio, and they ask him to write down like basically whatever it is. He hears in Germany in her voice over says. Is this the part of the story where the hero finally saves the Princess and I'm like? Okay Johnny don't bury the lied about who fucking you know what I mean like. We got a like. We absolutely think you're Kil-jo so Steve is like listening to desk and he's just electrified by it. Many rates on everything's. He's heard he just can't believe at so. He explains to the FBI agent. Okay, I it's a woman and she saying help me. Jesus help me Jesus and then there's more distant boys saying please. What do I do and then we hear what sounds like John's voice, talking to a little boy, and then you know just like one more lie where the boy like basically sort of is dismissed so watching it. Watching it this time around watching. Patsy I was like that is very deliberate and manipulative. To say about the cancer and to say like don't take my I can't have more kids. That does look more to hear this time around. Welcomes has also. She did her her Khloe phase where she was really like she. You know wanted to make sure Linda her that it was quite pleased with herself when she felt, she effectively communicated at and while Linda like never. You! Know really shows a sign that she sees it for what it is I. Wish that they had sort of like called that out more she definitely you know I think she did see it for what it was so John is watching out the window as burke. You know stands in the yard. I think he's playing with a I think he's watching a squirrel So two months later the this case has consumed Steve at this point. He's obviously bringing his work home with him He's up really late when his life comes like out of out of the bedroom, and she's like it's two a m. you need to sleep and he is you know. Why are you reading about this before bed? And he basically tells her like listen. I don't think I can have kids anymore. Leg after all of this, he wouldn't be able to handle if anything like that ever happened to his kid and you know she says you got to figure something out because this is really ruining, you And by the way, how could it not like this work? For everything like you know, you can say about people who work in law enforcement. I truly feel in a situation like this like how could you? How could you deal with that like I would never know I would obsess over. I couldn't not think about it for sure. It's so even veterinarians I'm like. How do you do your job like? On go and cry every day. God I know. But yeah, so at this point we're going to the district attorney Interviewing the Ramseys and then we're going to go to the situation room again. You know I have to say I have to give this movie some credit. The pacing is fucking great. 'cause do a really good job of sort of like you know. They know that we know the details of you've never heard of this case for some reason. If you've been in a coma, maybe like this case will have enough details for you, but they are covering basically twenty years of investigation. A lot of it like nothing is really happening like that's also the thing with this cases like when I was a kid, I always dreamed. There was so much more. More going on that I just didn't know about and come to find out like it really was like there wasn't much they could do like. There wasn't a lot of information to work with. They weren't getting any like crazy. Hot Tips were not getting into that at all. All the other potential leads. We don't see any of that. It's very focused on justice sort of one theory that happened inside the house, and when outside you know in influencers come in glue. It! Nothing really comes Evatt right? Totally. I think there are still for that reason. A lot of people who are convinced that the family couldn't have done it. Because they were so focused on investigating them. Yeah, I think a lot of people feel like they had a crazy hard on for the Ramseys, and just you know wanted to sort of wrap things up and you know there are a lot of people that think you know what whatever idea version of events that happened in that House that night a lot of people, still there you know. There was an intruder, or if it wasn't burke, it was patsy and she snapped or something I mean. Your eye so when it comes to true crime, and when it comes to like figuring out what happened, I'm always of the belief of like Oxfam's razor of like the simplest answer is usually what fucking happen. You know what I mean like. Some some rain person? It's usually like when somebody disappears. It's gotta be the husband you know like. It's usually the most easiest apparent thing. That's what I think. Yeah I agree for the most part I really agree, and for you know for many years. It never even occurred to me. That could do it and Wednesday settled on the CBS specially. I was like Oh like Da, like of course like that all adds up to being him, but there are elements lake. I think of Are you familiar with like the Delphi case? where it was like two girls who were having a sleepover and the next day, they woke up early, excited enough to go to school, and they decided to go to this sort of Bray Jr. it's like an old railroad that is just a go would suspended saying it's almost like a local Historical site in some ways, but it's where a lot of kids go on days off just to. It's like a walking place for the community members, but also kids probably go there and smoke weed and shit all the time. They want to look at some new instaflex, so they went there. Their sister dropped him off. And then you know next thing we know. They never. They never come home. They don't get picked up. No one can find them. The next day they are found dead in A. Small Lake. River area wasn't completely completely covered by water, but they got a small river. I'm down the hill and no one knows who killed them. But because they were kids with cell phones, they were able to catch clips of this guy coming toward them on the bridge, and the police have a lot more information hopefully, but. Like. Nothing make sense in a case like that so many things like. Maybe they were trying to meet a guy like 'cause one of them the one who wiped her phone the night before like. Why would a kid wipe their whole phone unless? You didn't want to get caught doing so you go to the place of like. Maybe they were trying to meet a boy that they met online. They turned out to be this like creepy guy. Some people think that you know it was just like an absolute toxic man, and they probably like snickered at him, or gave him a weird luck. 'cause he did look sort of. they you know. Maybe he just was like he was pissed off. That this like you know. These kids were making fun of him, and he need to like kill them to get revenge There's also this weird thing in the video where it looks like his. Body is like stuffed with things. It looks like he has. Like materials in his pants and in his pocket, you can't tell if he just has wait on him or his jacket is stuffed with like tools basically to kill someone into this. Hey, there's no answer about what happened. It's been like two years. It's a case that I am completely obsessed with. And there is. There's so many things that make perfect sense like of like Oh. That's absolutely what could have happened, but there is no. There is no logical conclusion like I have no idea. It drives me nuts, and that's a little bit of what I feel like in this case like yes, the most obvious saying that someone in the House did it. I mean. I don't know they're just so weird. About there Yeah Weird For All the secrets they have in for all. We know they could be having a sex party that nobody. They don't want any of us to know about. You know what I mean. That's always i. mean that's a huge theory. I don't know if you've like dove into that at all, but like I I love conspiracy theory unlike there's a Lotta people that think that John was part of a pedophile rings. And that they that he was. You know basically trying to sell Jon Benet into a pedophile ring up the I like that's a huge one as that like. He's involved in some cabal shed, or whatever like really deep pizza gate level shed about like the people he was involved with and the groups he was involved with, and I don't know if you're familiar with the fact that like another girl locally I was killed by a guy, and then after patsy died, John started dating the dead girl's mom what? Yes so like that all really ties into it to where it's like Oh my God will be. It is much more insidious than we think that you get much dirtier than someone. Covering up the murder of their child like. Maybe maybe it could be not a foreign faction just like a pedophile faction. Yeah! Wow I have never heard that theory, and that is bonkers and I can't wait to go on Reddit and look more into it. Well Yeah because like the pageant circuit. I mean come on like unless you're a parent with fucker you doing their. Attract large audiences in. It's not as if they like. Check your sex offender record in order to get into a pageant. So who knows, but let's pay forty, eight, fifty, two, fifty, one, forty six. We live dinner at the wines at approximately sore thirty PM. The last thing she ate was cracked crab. At the whites. She's asleep the card. Carried her up and. No I did not check the doors where the windows fat night. I don't know this patchy slip on the conference or I did not write that note. Where was burke when you found the note and called nine one one? Asleep. Every puzzle can be solved except sometimes you lose the pieces. Forget where you put them or put the pieces from one puzzle in the box for a different puzzle, but if you find all the right pieces, you can solve the puzzle for sure. Eating ask anything about the investigation your topsy. House. Daughter was killed nothing. and. That's the second daughter. He's lost, he's. Traumatized. What's happening with the nine one one call? Private firms with some more cutting edge. We've got the market. That wrote the note. It's an exclusive mass from the pot of pens, not far from the PAT in the kitchen. They staged it. It was an accident and they staged it to look like a blown kidnapping. Don't jump to any conclusions. How does a lot of there? And if it was an accident than how? And, why? To avoid bad press. A kidnapping isn't any better. We're just looking at the evidence. We have in front of us and why such a horrific staging! What else are we? Are We tracking the pedophile? Who may have attended her pageants? Yeah. It's a lot to process. What's going on with housekeeper? We're doing a handwriting analysis. Okay well, don't get locked into only one theory. Keep pushing on all fronts. We need to talk to them to the ramseys separately an unprepared which isn't going to happen at this time. The DA's words not mine. And according to the Ramseys new lawyers, they'll take written questions, but they want to review everything in our case filed before they talk to the police. What. Okay. Cracked Crab, I think that is so funny. Know why she's so proud of it, too. Like yeah, we had a crash dinner cracked crab okay I. Mean They are so? Like they're just they. They are so defensive and so insulted that anyone would dare. Remote the details of their daughter's murder and you know I hate to say guys, but even if you're not suspects, you're GonNa have to talk to the cops. If you want your the murderer of your daughter to be caught like what's with, you, know patsy going on TV and saying you know there's there's a guy out there. There's a terrible man out there. That's you know killed my daughter. What's that and then not willing to work with the police yet? If your kid gets killed, or if your? God forbid somebody close to you gets killed. You're going to be the number one suspect probably. Right but I mean all the more reason to like have full transparency you know, and by the way I you know I don't have a kid, if for some reason I acquire a daughter, and she gets murdered in. I have to cover for for some reason the first thing I'm GonNa do is start throwing out theories and names of people I can go distract the police with like Patsy Guy Works at movies meter lake, complimentary daughters dress like fucking. Send them after him like literally being if I wanted to deflect I would be sending them on a wild goose chase. especially, especially now, because like you know that the Internet is GonNa, go down Daig up some of those theories, and go down those rabbit holes, and do the work for you of core God if I have to read about that fucking Santa Guy. Or Man Working Christmas Eve. All of a sudden everyone's like yeah, he's a pedophile murderer. Mean that guy's name is still you know probably floating out there at attached to this case. Talk about needing reputation defender Dot com so we see some more home-video Dominati running around the stuffed bear. We now learn it is day one twenty eight I mean. As? We know if the first forty eight hours of. Art officially investigated. This is one hundred twenty days out right. It's it's crazy that the ramseys were even legally allowed to go that long without being brought in. On it is so white privilege like so crazy. Oh, my God. Are you kidding me like if they were not white, an incredibly wealthy immune, probably even if they were incredibly wealthy, and just not white, burke would be in CPS for sure in the foster system. They would both be in jail to this day like fluently absolutely so Linda comes in and says that the DA she goes into the cheese office and she basically. Basically says that the DA suspended any testing at CBI. There's still unidentified male DNA in her underwear and you know the chief is like worried about the amount of heat they're taking for all of this went down and he decides. He's going to take her off the case She's pleased. All like I'm building a relationship with PAT. See like that can be really helpful. She's right. And he's like sorry, but you're off and so. We see at this point. The media circus is even crazier. There's people you know outside of the House all the time in Germany says. Always said lots of people would see me. My God again. It's just so insulting like I feel like I've met six year. Olds who are far more advanced than they're portraying her then like. You know like more precocious like not so like it's a puzzle like it's just call it what it is Jon Benet. Right right right. fucking dirty all right. We know she's not dumb. What stop making her to be this dumb kid? Yeah and like Super Infantile Camman so Stephen Linda, both look at the evidence the way that they do all day every day. you really like I started to feel heavy for them about how frustrating those must have been for them, and then Linda carries a box to her car. Steve Pulls up in Caesar and he's like what's going on, and she's like I'm not staying on a desk job like I'd just rather quit, and she s Steve to promise her that he's GonNa. See this through and so this is like the promise he made. He carries this with him. This is like now. He's that guy. He's promised. Guy Young Man of his word guy so the detective was there that day I'm when she went missing the leather. Dadi talks to fleet and his wife about what happened after the funeral in Atlanta and he's like nothing you know we went back to. We went back to my house and he says that you know that. He seemed like there were there were some agitation there or something, and he he basically said not yeah, you know I had a little disagreement John's brother and asked him and his team to basically stay out of things and then. You know he said that Priscilla in him, just basically plainly spoke their minds it was. It was like a friend thing, so he wants to know if anyone corroborate without an, he's like yeah or corroborate that. You know. Are you suggesting that we had anything to do with this? So now? Fleet is like fucking done because he realizes. Oh, this is starting to like to me again I. Don't know if this was intentional by the police, but I think that this was a huge turning point for the case, because now fleets like bucket. I'm done with these people all right. So he goes to the captain, and he demands a statement saying that they had nothing to do with this, and they're basically like we can't talk about an open investigation and you know. Can You promise me John and Patsy didn't say anything about this happens again. I can't really comment on an ongoing investigation and so fleet demands that he makes a statement. Now we're on day. One seventy eight the police are being absolutely roasted by the media for botching this, which is true i. mean not was a huge part of the narrative was at the cops absolutely fucked up. in Steve Says when the DA forces them to show their entire hand the tape. It's still going to stay with them. and then they find out. Okay. We're actually bringing in this independent expert named loose met. He's a really big deal. I mean Steve Right away knows his name and he's like he's a legend. He did the Heather Dawn Church case, and like one hundred and forty nine others the DA is not going to start a jury yet, but they are bringing on Smith to help their case so this is a gigantic development for them. This must been like such A. Breath of fresh air for him to know that he's not alone in this anymore Fleet goes downstairs to talk to Priscilla early in the morning, his robe on, and they both look just like completely exhausted like this is sucked the life out of them more than the ramseys. It seems like physical told that this has had on them. Hundred percent so priscilla's reading the paper. Play the clip. It is fifty six, forty, two to fifty, seven, forty four. Couldn't sleep. Think. Anyone will actually read the police statement. I'm not looking at the statement. Last summer months before this happened. Barb Bernie, pointed out that damaged or the patsy. We thought someone had tried to break in. She said it had been John Traveling always forgetting his keys. Possible point of entry she knows. She knows what that is. People may not have liked. The pageants or the sexy outfits are everything that Patsy was putting Jon Benet into. But an innocent six year old girl is dead. Last meal. who going to start standing up for the truth around here? So, we find out that the door has been broken this whole time. This was like you know i. mean we gotTa talk about this House. I mean I am a single female homeowner? I can't recommend it like there are so many days where I just would have. I would do anything for another pair of hands around the house, or at the very least like just enough expendable lake, just like an insane amount of cash, so it could throw money and he's. Ripe, these people have enough money to fix a broken mock and fix a broken window. Why are they? So? Why do they lacks security and I understand that? This was a different time. This was still a time where a lot of people left their back door open, or they would leave the house without locking their doors, especially if they lived in a small town or community where things were generally safely, people were much more relaxed with safety back then yeah, and I also think it's too like Nothing's going to happen to up. Nothing's GonNa. Happen to us. Right, I mean yeah, and that is like a totally. That is complete privilege. Absolutely I just find it so interesting and very telling honestly. For people who were so obsessed with appearances to have such major things wrong with their house like it. You know it's very lake. Okay? Things are fine on the outside, but once you get inside, you realize we have broken windows or fucking door lock doesn't work like my daughter peas the bed. It seems like her sheets were never changed. Fill time. Yeah, crazy! How things got really overgrown in that house and I think sort of I mean I know it speaks to my mental health when my place is this shit? Show Lakers, GonNa, sort of speaks to the families mental health a little bit Yeah it's it's really it's really bizarre to me that there were so many ways that someone could have easily gotten into this house from. Yes so. Steve is eating at his desk I'm playing a lot of clubs, but a lot of them are short again because the pacing in this movie was really great, really good. But also you know. Outside of the sort of exposition I think it is kind of funny to see how these how these characters are for trade, and a Lou is you know he's like the lone flake when Lou rawls up. He has a Bolo tie on has glasses like a little string on his glasses? Older Lou has his own style like he is that person who's coming into town? Shake things up In, whether or not Lou was a big help. You know we will ever know like. Unfortunately, we won't ever know. I remember hearing through a friend that there was one major loophole that was open, and it was involving a lawsuit and I am part. Pardon me for not remembering which exactly which one it was, but I think also. Maybe that's good, because this is somewhat like low, key information, but. Basically a there is a loophole that be that could come from all of this. That's like not directly related to the case, but related enough where if they were able to get them on this one thing, John Ramsey would have to be completely deposed about what happened in that, House that night And it, and so like you know I, hold out some faith in some hope that either this man will perjure the fuck out of himself or finally some day we'll get to hear all of it, but I mean. How are they not? Deposed like I mean y I know legally speaking. That's like you know not. Not Common for someone who hasn't been arrested to be deposed, but it's like I don't know. I just think that there Lack, of desire to be helpful to the police. In any way is like Raymond guy like, would you? Wouldn't you think the plea? Their side so to like find the murderer. She you like playing along. Yeah, when if you'RE GONNA? Try and pull this off. pull off the impossible play along. So fifty, seven, fifty, six to one minute and fifteen seconds is where we meet Liu. Detective Smith. Liu. Steve. Thomas. It's an honor. That Jon Benet. Yeah. TOLD HER THAT WE'RE GONNA solve this. Is something. These. Are All cases. I've been privileged. To help solve. We're going to get her to. Yes, we are. Sure you around. About ready to pull out. Done. I don't think I've ever seen more compromised crime scene in my entire career. Yeah! There were mistakes made. These people. Contaminated, doesn't even describe it. How do you account for that? They thought they were showing up to a kidnapping. Just kidnapping. Basic police work. Fundamentals. Go under the Ramseys feel exposed. I went to. Music in this movie by the way, if this was like a regular season and we were reading this, I have to say font off the chart. We're getting some standard typography. The music in this movie, though is so extra, it is just another level. I love the line in this part where he's like mistakes were made. It's like yeah, that's the understatement of the century crazy. While, but also at the same time I'm like come on Lou like you're not telling. Steve Anything. He doesn't know already right. If you've could turn back time and make things different, I'm sure he would I know. He would same thing with Linda like. It was like Linda was watching a car crash after a car crash in that house side day of evidence, being completely destroyed and I'm Kinda like Lou. They know they know that uncle. This. Go easy on the guys. But it, also towards the end of that work, he was like no wonder. They feel exposed like it does seem like there's some sort of motivation there to come to the aid of the family, which is like why he has so many, you know. His theories are very distracting from. The narrative that the cops have had which is probably a good thing. You need to destroy things sometimes in order to get progress made, but it also feels like he really complicated things. I mean this is a real never major heroes moment for Steve Right definitely. He definitely complicated chat. Yeah so Jon Benet says I made drawing once at school. The teacher thought it was a horse. My friend, it was a fish. It was a picture of me. I wish someone saw that I saw that. Spa. Wow, that's just you know first of all. That's deep Germany but it. Sounds like you? You're really much of an artist I'm. That's sort of an advanced thought to give her can based off of everything else now like she was hybrid of a Horse on fetch. As Steve Tells Lou that the Ramseys are moving to Atlanta and he has to hand over the whole case. File and Liu says that he doesn't think the RAMSEYS had. To do with it, and so after all this time, this is when he like has come up with the intruder theory and you present said he thinks it was someone who was spotted at Christmas was spotted her at the Christmas parade. Or one of her pageants. that. Make Sense. He broke into the house when they were out. And you got familiar with the layout in then he sat down and he wrote the ransom note. He waited until around twelve when he crept upstairs in a mobilized her with a Taser. Taser isn't loud when it's applied directly to the skin, you then brought her down to the basement and tried to have his way with her, which is why he taped her mouth, inbound her arms, and then when she woke up, she screamed in rip the tape off. which I mean I, he never said like when she would have reapplied the tape, but I guess the implication is that it seemed like tape had been ripped off more than once in remote area and then when she woke up, she screamed and struck her with a flashlight. He panicked in the basement in forgot his ransom. Note downstairs and Steve. Just like you know, we can't believe that. He came to this conclusion and just seventy two hours like usually murders. Aren't he's glue- says that basically like murderers. Murders aren't always what they seem. Things. Go wrong all the time I mean. Let's entertain this for a moment. I I wonder if the Ramsey's paid off Lou. That's a great thought. That's a great thought. Because I mean it's. It's It's hard to believe. That he would come in and. With I mean unless unless that's his his. The main purpose of his job is just as sort of upset. The track that it seems like police are going down potentially at a laziness like. Maybe it's his out of the box. Thinking that makes him so good at what he does, but. In this particular case, it seems like he's so. He's so convinced that the ramseys couldn't have possibly done it. You do feel like yeah, like. Maybe he was being paid off right like. I don't know like he doesn't even examine the additional evidence for the ramseys doing. I think also that thing with Lou is like he carries the pictures of his victims in his pocket like it's. Very clear that he has a deep emotional attachment to these kids, and maybe there's a part of him. That can't face the reality that a parent would do something like this to their child right true. That's so that's so dark. He I know Oh God, so Stephen is partner basically feels like this goes against all the evidence that they have and to them. It's completely clear that this was the situation went wrong in the house. It was covered up in stage to look like something else, and then Steve says that you know C. tells them listen I was a fan of the case. You did with Heather Dawn Church leg. That case was amazing or family was accused in. They didn't do it in. You know it was an outsider, but that's not going to be every case. That's not the blueprint. and Liu says that no the blueprint is evidence determining theory, not theory determining evidence. Okay Lou SAS. So. That's the other thing with Lou to is like I. Feel like you can't tell Lou no Oh No! WHO's the boss? Lose the boss. Yeah, absolutely. Totally. Yeah, so he does Steve. This is know this is your first homicide Steve. You're acting like you know everything and his partner hotels Lou. That he's wrong. That known in the department will agree with him in at the FBI won't either so he excuses himself and at this point I kinda thought he was off the case, but I should have known lou better by now. Lake nothing out Liu so. He we see Alex, hunter the Boulder District Attorney. He goes on TV to talk about this. And then we hear a clip of John and Patty at home than after that we're GONNA. See Steve Talking to fleet in Priscila and then finally a scene of fleet and Priscila talking to the governor, so this scene rate here is one of three, thirty, eight or these scenes one of three thirty eight to one. Oh, six fifteen. You won't find too many people in this department agreeing with you, Lou. Or the FBI or any other agencies taking a look at this. It's not the first time. Telling. I want to say something to the person or persons that committed this crime. I mentioned the list of suspects narrows. Soon, there will be no one on the list. But you. This is nice a university professor. So me on television and says he would stake his reputation them. John. I feel like. The people that are supposed to be protecting Jon Benet. Aren't. That includes the DA. To suggest that we need legal counsel to deal with our own district attorney, but. That's just it. We don't trust him anymore. Neither, do we? He's been accused in a national magazine of being incompetent. It's been almost a year. He's done nothing for Jon Benet. The lawyers that I've been speaking with in Denver made a suggestion that could just help us. Get a fair hearing with the grand jury. But I can't do it by myself. How can we help? We want you to appoint a special prosecutor. To take the case completely away from Hunter and politics and EGO governor. Everyone seems to forgotten that this is about a murdered six year old girl. Yes I think they have. Let me consider it. Thank you governor? Is Not going to do a thing. So then what? His boss the people who elected him. He's. Okay so I mean. Yeah, just in case you were wondering if these people were rich and powerful, I mean they're sitting with the governor like it's no thing I mean you know the governor is dying to make this. Go Away to though like I feel like the whole state was just up in arms about this, and then it's a bad laura forever. Aby, it was a tough. It was a tough doug aid for Colorado. I gotta say. There was. But yes. Oh! I mean I love that they turned on their best friends. I really do I i. don't know if what I I don't know how I would handle this. If like I, I discovered that my best friends were possibly capable of this. Right I don't know how I would either, but then I'm thinking about it and like. They're talking about Justice Jon Benet, but like is Jon, Benet, wanting looking down from heaven, wanting to see her parents go to jail. You know what I mean. It's all about it's about us. It's about us wanting to know what happened. It's not about Jon Benet. New Maybe? We just found out there. Atheists than they don't think that Jon. Benet is on the other side. They just. You know there. We go the white family atheists, but. I mean like. I found all of this lake. Just kind of incredible. Honestly I live in a big space of denial. Most of the time I don't think I would be able to be honest with myself if I thought my friend. Was this close to getting away with it I think it depends on how who the friends are. Like if it were my best best best friend. Oh my God I don't know it would take me a minute. Right you? You don't I mean. Like there is something wrong with patsy. Shirt the peak of her day is that someone wrote to her and said like Oh. You know I would defend you, but. Can we talk about the fact that they do another weird close up on John? Who they also did a close up of his bad tongue for some reason, they like focused on his is in his. Pupils, are fucking saucers, and I end like it's such a close shot that you can see the actors contacts, but like again. Why? Why now like? Is is are we supposed to think that John's on molly leg is not name. It's gotta be that he's. He's the directors implying the John's on drugs or something. Or like it's just a lazy ass moment I mean bank more on the second. I I would be shocked if John. As a response is developed atoll, addiction or something, but. Anyway. So now day three, hundred, seventy one. The newspaper prints an open letter from the white family It's a full page I. I don't know if it just deserved that type of real estate, or if they bought an ad or something, but like you can tell this is a big day for the whole town. They basically say that this was the fault of John and Patsy for not fully cooperating. We ru fair. Basically John and Patsy read this and proxies like well. What kind of people return on their friends like this? In John's like? Yeah, that's what the public's going to think to like wh. Who are these people credible? If they're going to sell out their own friends, what's her? My God like he's more concerned about like he's just so not bothered. He thinks he's completely immune to it. Right I mean he lives? He's one of those people that lives in like an altered state of reality. These people fascinate me. Where like they see something that means like one thing. It's right there in black and white like it means exactly what does end. You've already written off this whole thing because you're like well, who would possibly believe people who would betray their friends? I'm like John No. One else is reading this with your eyes. No one thinks that way. but yeah, so the COP says that the noise on the nine one one call. There's a copy exactly. That it had gotten out the DA. Basically released the tape. It was like just a move. In so there's this cop outside who I don't think we've ever seen before. WHO's smoking a cigarette and he's like getting up in Steve's face. It said I scream at you. And and seems like no I heard something else i. swear it was like. You know what did I do wrong, and so he goes. What you hear is subjective. A Japanese person would hear Domo. Ari Gatto. Frenchmen would here parlayed. I. For some reason. This cop is such a creek late. Nothing makes me laugh harder than like A. Demented individual like what administered. It's like you know obviously. This hits much more heavy. That is you know. He's a fucking racist COP. Like just flippantly making declarations, but you know it's it's just it's such a character. It's such a type of person. My God. Yeah, it's such a cop character. Ninety S COP character. Yeah Oh Parlay Francais. That's what French people here absolutely so they are. So lose back to share some more thoughts with Steve and then after that we're going to hear the first injury with the police that they were able to get with the RAMSEYS. This is in late August of nineteen ninety nine. Wow! Like. Wow. Yeah! The first interview was like two full years later to two years like six months later. been had their trial by then convicted. Who else can make something last long? Except for the ridiculously rich, it's like the wall Goering, Laughlin in like Moss, emoji a newly thing where it's just like you guys spent millions of dollars to prolong this long enough by the grace of guide for you, a pandemic happens, and then all of a sudden. You're like well. I can make a plea like I'll cooperate now you get no sundance. You get Dang it paying child. Their fines are less than what they paid USC thing. It's like a hundred and fifty thousand dollar discrepancy while amazing amazing. It for them. Okay so another clip. Sorry, this end part is a little heavy, but I wanNA. Make sure you guys here this one. Oh, seven fifty to one eleven thirty nine. Should have given me the tapes. entomologist about these webs Lou. An intruder would have destroyed them and wiped all the dust off the window so not so fast I. I'm sorry, are you saying the spider spun them back for a photo op? That's why we need to talk to an entomologist for God's sake Lou Is there an outside chance of that? I guess there is. Is there an outside chance that the person killed there in the basement and then ran the flashlight upstairs to the kitchen there is. But forgot the ransom note on the stairs. There are no there isn't because an outside chance of this an outside chance of that one hundred other. This adds up to an outside chance of the whole thing there. You go again, detective. You're letting the cart. Lead the horse. You know what I want to see. Do you want to see John Ramsey hanging by his neck? Know? Where was the John Ramsey that lost his first daughter in a car accident? He was inconsolable, devastated bedridden for weeks over a car accident. Where was that John Ramsey I can't say I've never lost two daughters before. Let me ask you this. Where does the Garad fit into your card? Why bother was something so sadistic so cruel, and what about the unknown male DNA in her underwear? That is Steve Steve. I've seen this before Steve. You're out to prove something. It's got nothing to do with this case. If, you guys are finished in here. Hunter just got a letter from Ramsay. Saying your grand jury won't be necessary for them to talk. What a surprise going in front of a grand jury or do an interview. Tough Choice. Shopping! Slowly this spiral stairs to bed with my behind her. Asleep. TERRIER! Say that the. Someone told name you. And They Fisher Department. Priscilla has attracted just like that one I was. Choose the. House. Harrison just sleep. Pretending. Will you. Swear. You didn't do this. I, swear to God. Did you. Prepare for this conversation. I told you we trace. Evidence appears to the death of your daughter. Not Kill my child I didn't have a thing to do with it anyone else. Your wife! Swear to God I. Don't give a flying. Out Scientific. Swear to. Legally Do. Not Do this. Okay. She did not do it. Rolex. John. was. No I have not. Prior to night, she was killed. I! You're talking about. There's a lot there. First of all I want to say that I've always I. Since I was my twenty fifth birthday. I've incorporated Jon Benet into my birthday in some way whether she's on my invitation. Or, something and a few years ago. I had A. Cotton Candy Company Make Me Pineapples. That was called the Burke Ramsey wow I love after you like a bar in New York and it was really funny, 'cause. Girls started to walk up to me and we're like. Do you like, do you? What listen to my favorite murderer? You Murderer Reno. As like, yes, I am but also. I am a a huge stand of this case. in Georgiana Karen like we're dying about my birthday invitation on the show one day, which is how I have Mosa listenership for podcast. That's amazing, but yeah, I mean it is. She's a piece of iconography in a way like that I kind of just she always. You know like I kind of. Can't get over the image of her, and like I've just always been so alert. By, it was just very alluring, so. Like. Okay, let's talk about the vaginal trauma. What which yeah no fun to talk about, but we gotta get into it. Okay okay. I never I never wanted to discuss my vaginal trauma but on. especially that of young girl. Okay so idea that came to me when I was watching. Do you think Lou was possibly part of the pedophile? Oh Wow I. Think Lou is definitely like. Up like on their side somehow. When I was watching this. How can it not feel that way, right? I mean this. They're trying to really paint Steve. As the hero in this, and I believe that the first movie they made was based off of Steve's book, So lifetime has Steve Bias and like they obviously are trying to paint Lou as someone who with the best intentions. Came in in spent a Lotta time deflecting from what was obvious. Right I mean at the. Maybe he's the pedophile ring. He possibly as in the pedophile ring at the same time, you know as much as Lou and that other detective who plays devil's advocate fucking suck like they are necessary for the telling of this story to Chicago, basically how the law works and how? You can't just arrest someone because this is the only logical thing that makes sense like time her to really dig their heels in in Lake you. You know feel like they've they've got. Those characters need to be there to disrupt I do feel bad because Liu worked on this till the day he died. many died I think in two thousand ten, so I mean. He spent many many years of his life completely consumed with this case minute never really sat with him. So in some ways. I'm Kinda like It's a little. To his memory that it was what we just watched I'm like comedown lake. You're going a little. You're going a little bit too hard. Okay so as for the. Vaginal. Situation. Do you think that she was being molested over a long time? Do you think that maybe there was an accident? Like I think it could like? There are accidents that could explain vaginal trauma, but not prolonged vaginal trauma. Did his say prolonged for sure. Has. That's what he said to That's what the detective said to Patsy, and she was very like. You know kind of incredulous about it where she was like. Oh, mcclay prior to that night. I don't think that she knew if something was going on I. Don't think that she knew if I'm being perfectly honest with you. Although I think that's something that a lot of parents willingly unknow if they can yeah, but I also think again for me I think it's burke I think that. If. He's wiping feces on his little sister. Then there's no telling what else he's doing to her as well so I. I kind of agree with I. Hate to say it, but I. do think that Burke was probably I mean he's nine lake. It's not as much as we don't want to think that like a nine year old. Would have any sort of like. Sexual, but they were but. They Let's face it. A nine year. Old boy absolutely dies lake so I wouldn't be like completely shocked especially because it seems like these kids were kind of raised on they kind of raise themselves in some ways like burke was very sort of independent within the house from everything. We've seen like the fact that he's up at night making pineapples milk by himself like he knows his way around yet life. And, I wouldn't be surprised if he had some sort of knowledge, our exposure to like sexual materials, and it's just another way that he sort of took out his anger on his sister. No, that kid is like a little hacker. On the Internet in Nineteen ninety-six finding porn like totally totally boobs dot, com, dude, it's right there. But yeah. I okay so. In terms of. Her defending Burke when patsy besides Burke Ramsey did not do this. I can't help, but think of like the classic. Sort of people reading technique of people when they don't use contractions are much more likely to be lying. Relate when they something back and they say burke didn't like instead of saying he did not like that is contractions are normal. There's something that like you would normally employers employees just like whatever when you go and say do like he did not, and you're being very like very few words or malady, wanting to make sure someone really hears you. which is what I got from her in that scene like she seemed so over this. She couldn't believe that she had to be answering these questions all these years later. for some reason, burke like Koch to being awake the whole time. Pretending to sleep. Yeah, that's weird. Whigham, unlike let's explore that more right. There's no way some almost silently. Doing this right. I didn't know that thing about the contractions, but that makes so much sense. It's like thou dost protest too much like if you really emphatically saying that. That's you're protesting too much. People do it all the time like once you once you learn that you sort of can't hear it when you're trying to figure out of someone's lying to you or not, and obviously that's like anything else like when people say. Oh, you look to the left when you're lying like all that kind of bullshit at the end of the day, but it was noticeable to me and I think that was a direct like those parts directly like. From the rail tapes The, Pineapple, I wish we because that did turn out to be the smoking gun. Yeah, they don't mention it too much here. No, I think this movie was sort of made in response to this CBS documentary and like all the sixty minutes, and all the different dateline step that was going on at this time. This was meet around the same time and so. I'm. Out there and I don't know why they didn't include dot because they feel that was like that's the thing you know the pineapple right, so it's day found pineapple in her stomach and the theory. Is that she that that was burks favorite? Snack and she tried to steal it from him, and he flipped out and killed her. Yes in so like it almost makes sense lake. He's territorial about food, which is would probably explain why. He flipped the fuck out on the therapist who? The Soda Yeah He's like one of those people who's I. Don't touch my stuff. which a lot of kids are that kid? And they don't kill people, but. Yet it was. It was something that I definitely that definitely. That felt similar, so the painting I gotta say like what a Weird! Weird favorite dessert for a kid to have so gross. That sounds so close to me. It's very crab legs from its nineteen fifties dining yet. It's very like Waldorf Salad. Yeah are you familiar with Damon's and Glendale no a good. It's like well I. Like it because it's like sort of local. Kind like! Yeah, it's good. It's steaks and stuff like that. It's like a tiki themed restaurant, but it's a really old l.. A restaurant in one of the ways that they sort of keep that feeling authentic is they have the original menu they had in the thirties or whatever and it's all shit like pineapple in milk, and that is like it's kind of interesting. How like old school? They might, they were, and some of those ways where their kid would know about that and casually make it for himself flake. This family is sort of throwback easy in a lot of. And I think I don't know if it's because the mom was southern, or what, but yeah, I agree. Yeah Steve Finishes, watching interviews and he knows at this point that nothing is going to come out of this. He basically has given up and he feels like everyone is just laughing at them, There's another check to their partner. Who Has Steve what he wants to do about it? And he says he's GonNa. Walk like what's he? GonNa do after all this bad guy in the. Maybe they'll prosecute him. He's basically lost. All faith in this process in feels like if he walks away, that might be the closest. He gets making a statement about how he feels about this. Case 'em how you know how he's being helped In Germany goes wait. The detective isn't supposed to quit. He's supposed to solve the puzzle. Why is this is? How the story supposed to go. So Stephen. Put on another tape his favourite tape of Jon, Benet with the hose. It's her in the yard you know. That's the part of it. That doesn't sit well with me. For some reason. I don't think he's got creeper. Do not! It's kind of a weird way to show his connection Dr Maybe Steve's in the pedophile ring I. Know like honestly. How fucking deep does this go to your sleep? So. The governor reads a statement that Steve is retiring from the newspaper and he's like Oh actually pretty well written Tells, US. Assistant that may be the whites were right. They should hire a special prosecutor. Steve Meets with the whites, and they are bringing in Mike Kane who's like a big shot from town He's going to be the guy. Lou Hands Letter to the chief outside of the court when they're about to do this jury thing and he says I will not be part of the persecution persecution of innocence so. Are. Sold on them. Being in a sense a real raging hard on for them being an then. tells us that Liu, told the jury intruder killed her and kept trying approve it until he died in two. Twenty ten, the grand jury is in session. We see so then thirteen months later. The AD makes statements saying that the grand jury has done a great job with all of this, and that he and the Prosecution Task Force believed that they don't have enough as evidence to bring charges against anyone in. They've investigated so far. and so I think what happened from this. If I'm if I'm following correctly as the jury did make some decisions, but ultimately they felt like they didn't have the evidence to go through with that, but they did like a soft survey of the of this jury. Didn't. They recommend that they'd be indicted? And then they just were never indicted. I mean I think the. The one who said like eighty is like it all checks out here for me, yeah! I don't know I don't know. I think that was in the sixty minutes. Thing is that they were supposed to be indicted and they just never were. Yolo I mean I. Guess like three months after this is the title cards at the end, but three months after that grand jury met together. The case. expired in terms of statute of limitations. Should not be statute of limitations on the murder of a child. Sexually assaulted I. Mean That's just fucking insane to me like the fact that. There's a statute of limitations on like you know a child being molested, and like you know they might have that realization years later where the person who hurt them is. Working. You know with kids or whatever it just it. Those things should just socially. Out of all the laws we have in this country. I feel like that should be one. Night is adjusted so. The Whites Watch. All this. UNFOLD ON TV and they are infuriated. They're walking away with no answers and Steve Watches with his wife and she tells him that he did everything he could. and. He Says No I. Didn't I gave up any walks out of his office and. Visit looks at his picture of Jon Benet in. He says you know. I made a promise and now I need to tell the truth, so he writes a book about being inside the investigation and right away, he sued for a variety of things specifically one of them being that he used inside police information stuff that really I mean honestly I'm kind of. Stunned that. He thought he could get away with that right, but good for him. I guess like of even the publisher like A. Why would you take that on? A lot of people feel like this was a publicity grab for him and that he was really trying to profit off of her name. the Ramsey is right their own account. What happened that paints pretty much completely opposite picture. we're seeing like basically all the media this shows up in. People are building websites that contain the evidence in. The public is very invested in this so then in two thousand six. The phone rings at the Ramsey House in patsy picks up. It's her doctor informing her that she needs to come in. This is one you know leading up to her out. She has cancer, so then Stephen Linda catch up with some drinks on the back porch. this May, there's something in here. That made me think of use ZIP ugly. And then we go to the Atlanta palliative centre right after that so one twenty to one twenty to thirty. I think job trimming trees. My boss is I. Keep Name Carlos. He's nineteen. I read your book. My Legal Bill. Yeah. All Goalie. Everything. Sorry. I still think about her sometimes. Not a day goes by the. Yeah. Thousand the lie. I, think about it all the time. I hear patsies cancers back. Not. Well I gotta get to work. What are you doing now? I started a small carpentry business. That fits good. Good to see STI. You Youtube. Patsy. You once asked me to find jonbenet's killer. And I told you I would. PATSY! Just you John Burnett that house. Is, there something you WanNa tell me now. Why what a good scene! Yeah, it's great I love that if This is true that Linda had the ball St-. To show up to patsies. But. The part that made me think of you. In the beginning, when Linda says, she had to take a job cutting down trees, and she has a nineteen year old boss. I. Was Thinking that is such. A Natalie beach move. Like. The same feeling that I had in the Carolinas I was Caroline Caldera's say. where I'm like you know. Natalie. You could've worked inside of the whole foods like series. Doubt that leg. You were so homely that you couldn't get a job at the gap lake you had. You had to take the toughest job possible. Rates she's like working in a steel mill. Go straightening. Holloway's book. which just like I would I couldn't I couldn't never write that essay like obviously caroline socks, too, but like not as Sade, really like got under my skin, and when when just hearing Linda Day that she took on this absolutely unnecessary labor for her to take on like she's not anymore qualified to do that than she is still like fold t shirts at sears right right right right I like what a Natalie beach moved. Go get the job. That is the most. Most, physically intensive, and like personally for some reason degrading thing to you and also my secret theory is that Natalie could have worked inside the whole foods. She likes watering the lettuce and she can own it own it now. When the lettuce wasn't that bad for you, this is so funny because on my podcast, we say all the time that all roads lead back to Caroline Calloway and they do. Oh, trust me, I mean. I was looking for an excuse to bring this? No. because. We are so close to wrapping this up. And this is just like a clear in to talk about what it is. You do on your podcast. Yes, to know about all this I need to know all the T- like I need to know your thoughts on caroline. I need to know what you think is like the most interesting scam you've covered because your podcast is all about basically breaking down scam yes. Oh, my God so caroline! We sent someone undercover to her. Artist retreat to go as gas and then report on it and. She said it was hilarious. Caroline was an hour late and gave them a gift bag with a stick. And a candle and a votive candle in it, and it's just crazy I go back and forth on Carolina sometimes. I feel bad for her. And then I'm on this sub read. It called small bean snark, and that subrata is like no, she's manipulating you manipulate. She wants you to feel bad for her like with her dad's death, and all this stuff so I go back and forth between thinking she's not scammer, and then, but this latest round of her like monetize ing, and doing an only fans, and like shitting on sex workers, but then trying to be like a like a high class. Sex worker is made me like dislike her truly to the car. We asked her to come on when we did our episode on her. She shared it and said that we were bowling her. which we were, we were like very objective, but clearly she didn't listen to it. We emailed her manager to come on, and she respectively declined. But she is the one that keeps on giving. She's fascinating. I got really into the dark web for one episode which I liked to. There's so much shit on there. You can. Yeah can buy like credit card. Numbers and Mike. Do Real scamming. It's to say the least like the dark web is is truly I mean not on another level. What happens on there? It's not like you can watch human sacrifices on there my God. It's crazy. Have you heard of Red Rooms I've? Is that like where murderers happening? Basically. It's like a live streamed room where like a human being is getting tortured, and it's like a vegas betting events like really wealthy. Get together, and like watch this person get tortured, and you can pay extra money to have a certain type of torture unto them, and it's like it's. It's what you think. People who are have so much money and so much access like when they get bored. It's exactly what you would think. They would do to cure that boredom linkages just. You should not be able to buy an. They have figured out a way to do it and it's really sick. Shit like it's. It's really sick. Shit and I think there's more of it going on than people could possibly consider like normal. People just don't think like that. I have to look at. That sounds crazy. Also, I'm obsessed with Epstein. And the Epstein case because that is just like there's so much to unravel there and so many people who are tied up in it and so many people lying about shit obsessed. It's great. I I'm obsessed with that too, and I don't know if you've seen on Google I'm sure you have like the Drone footage of his island, yes. And like it, you I mean you know looking at it. Everything has to be going on underground like what is under that thing is the question like it's just it's A. I go to all sorts of places about what capacity down there. I saw some account with some neighbor or like, or maybe it was like a drone through the window or something. That's dental chairs like I. Don't know what Kinda Shit he has. New netflix documentary like barely scratched the surface, sh-. Oh, I haven't seen that yet. It's like four episodes. It's probably the shit that you already know. Yeah I mean okay. Listen I don't want to be too repetitive because I did. Talk about a little bit about caroline. with the previous guests. WHO's obsessed about with this, too, but I feel like you are like the resource soy really WanNa. Talk more about it. I have to say I am codependent person to a fault. I am like disgustingly overly empathizing. Like I can find a reason to make an excuse for anyone I'm on the team of people that Kinda didn't think that her quote. Unquote artist retreat was a scam as much as it was just like a MIS marketed meet-and-greet, and like there are people all. All the time who charge two three hundred four hundred dollars, not even just like the big celebrities of the world, but like you know influencers and stuff they're charged. You know two hundred fifty bucks to come. Meet them at an event and I'm Kinda like you know. I've spent one hundred sixty bucks on some of the dumbest Shit than that has four. Yeah no lake, or but like that Steph, you'll use like I've thrown one hundred sixty dollars away without a second thought in my life and I'm Kinda like well if that's where you decided to put your money, that's kind of what you got like. What do you expect like I? Never really found that to be a scale although I am really interested in what's going on with her book scammer? In the fact that she you know. Incentivize people to buy multiple copies because they would get autographs that she really is sold that in this thing when publishers are in fact up in working. In this book out, and she said she she's like didn't release the last part of it or something, right? Like. That's not even the book that's like another article that she's just writing behind a paywall and she donated a bunch of that money to like Kobe relief, but like that wasn't supposed to be in lieu of the book that was supposed to be like an additional Ryan she could earn. It is I wouldn't be shocked if when she saw cove. It happened that she thought okay. I can lie about the publishers being shut down. And released, and then write something like more campy, because like what she looked like she was selling was essentially a children's book based off the cover and everything. It seemed like it was going to be a quick read, so the thing that really soured me on her are like I was being objective, and even like when we went to this artist's retreat when our correspondent Mackenzie went I was open, minded and I was like I don't think that's a scam. I was but a couple of weeks ago. I don't know if you saw this, but people found her AIRBNB profile and oh. Yes and like I have to say I'm an avid airbnb user myself, and like you can just feel that sort of unspoken airbnb energy in the posts where you try to not bury a person, and so people were like four stars like the day I got there. I had to do three hours of laundry and they're. The place was a mess, but overall. It's a great location and. and. Then the one review that was left for her was. Break people back and there was a teapot Lopez. She pissed the teapot. That's the thing that made me turn on her up until then was objective, but then it's like. Why are you pissing? Strangers Teapot, come on. Okay so this is my theory on that. I think that she got some strange wherever she was staying in that. Because that's a guy, move right. Role isn't GonNa Piss in a teapot like the logistics of it just a nightmare so I don't think a woman would confidently piss in a teapot, but I think guys slough I mean there are just those guys out there that like pissing water bottle and light day accidentally leave it in their car for a week like it feels like a very dude thing in lake. Something that she wouldn't think to check before she left. Wow Out. Now I didn't even think of that. That is a great theory. Maybe I'm I didn't caroline. fucks, gross people, but then also. Like. Obviously Carolina is just so many of the things. She's done her questionable like. You can't even say like Oh the antisemitic step aside. There is no putting that aside. I I don't I wasn't. An intentional though I don't know that's what my guest said to me last week and she's. Jewish cares very much about this stuff. She said honestly I think. Caroline drinks a lot on an empty stomach. And people. You know I said I feel like people probably tried to set her up. A lot of people probably DM her things like hoping that she'll be lazy enough to post it or like not see through it and you know, but if you look at the comment that was attached to it, it was very like Oh. Greedy Hollywood Jews like love money like that was sort of the undertone of the whole tweet, and once I saw I was just like. Oh, I can't like the two of those together. That is not. That's not hitting right for me, but. I will say with small being snarky. I've checked it out a lot of cord like I'll go back once in a while and check it out. I've never really commented or anything. It seems like that's a community of people. That are never going to give her credit or benefit of the doubt on any. Leg they have stay are so committed to everything she does is wrong like sometimes the non things that they'll make issues of on there like now. You're telling yourself now. Now. It like you took this completely innocuous saying and like turned it into like okay. She thinks it's just like they're all in the bitchiness, crackers stage with her, but like on another level but the only fans again I talked about this part. My friend to this is what concerns me for her mental health because I think she thought that through. Yeah, and I have a lot of friends who are sex workers in take like private snaps and stuff like that I. CanNot Express how much I do not have a problem with that life, but everyone I know who's involved with. It has thought very long and hard about how they're going to do it. How the either pretends themselves if they don't WanNa be found, or whatever like. This is not something to take casually and when I. I'm like the number one reply on that tweet to her because I tweeted at her like Carolina. Look Great, but take this down when we can. You know when someone posts a shot of their titties at what like eleven pm Florida time on twitter? Because they didn't write part of essay. That doesn't seem particularly thought out lake. She launched into something that will affect her for the rest of her life. I think and I I think she does act very impulsively and she doesn't think things through that said I, do think she's a hustler and she's a good businesswoman and like you have to give credit for that. Oh any day of the week. I will say like that's why I'd never problem with the dreamer. BB's I'm like. Let her seldom leg it will. It will run out eventually, but it's something tangible. She's creating. If People WanNa pay for that, let them pay for it like don't my thing is i? Don't ever count anyone else's money. If people are willing to throw money at that, that's their life. You know that doesn't get an. And you know what some people. This is a demented world. Okay, some people might just want a piece of paper that Caroline Calloway touched. It's like just it's. It's part of the bit. Think that she's trying to do performance art, but doesn't really like the character that she's been a forced to commit to it because I don't think it aligns with who she is as a person and what she believed she is, but she knows how it's how she's perceived, and that's like a a big burden on someone I think and it's. She's doesn't seem like she's doing great. In my opinion. No, she doesn't and like Ah Shit that she posts about her. Dad. Are just like it's too much. It's like honey and this is private. You should not be sharing this. Hock. I know speak of public grief but I funny enough. I also asked Caroline because IBM to are a couple times like she followed me after I tweeted her to like not nudes or something and. I said to her like do you WanNa? Come on my lifetime podcast in. Do the movie homeless to Harvard with me? She never back. We emailed her manager and she wrote back, and he wrote back after like three weeks and said now. Yeah I mean I'm sure they get a Lotta asks but. okay so. Yeah when when John Walked in on Linda, like like talking to Patsy, he had this look of horror on his face almost as if he knew that he couldn't leave her alone for five minutes. Just in case, someone showed up to ask her for a duck. Bad Confession like he didn't seem to know that Linda was there. He just seemed keenly aware that she was about to spill all where she was at that point in her life and he yeah, you truly look horrified, really did. So it's two thousand, thirteen Stevens doing some carpentry in his Gra In his garage and I. The way I think Steve They mentioned at the end that he's a successful entrepreneur and I really wish that like Steve went on Shark tank because I think that he has the exaggerate story, I think the sharks would totally be into him I. Think they would invest anything in him. Steve So. Okay while us. You know sawing away. His wife plugs his machine and he's like. Basically you gotta come. See what's on TV. So what's going to play out over the next? Like two and a half minutes is basically. The rest of the movie This is where we all wrap it up here so one twenty, two to one, hundred, fifty six to one twenty five. In a startling development in the Jon Benet Ramsey case in response to a lawsuit brought by Reporters Committee for freedom of the press, the court released today four pages of an eighteen page grand jury indictment secretly issued in one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, nine against on Patsy Ramsey, charging the couple with two counts each child abuse, resulting in death, an accessory to murder. Andrea carry reporting live in Boulder Colorado. where I am now. I've been here for twenty years. I've seen a lot of things for here. I've seen mommy. Di I've seen daddy get married again. Burke working with computers. And I've seen you to all of you. Looking at me. What do you see when you look at me? a Steve See. I. Forgive you Steve. I'm sorry to. Do Life would have been better without me. All the bedtime stories Mommy, and Daddy read to me had happy endings, but my story doesn't have an ending at all. Because, it's not a fairy tale. It's real life. And in the story of my life, the bad guys don't get caught. The Nice people don't win. I can't click my ruby slippers and go back home. I still don't know who the bad guy in my story is I guess I never will. Maybe. That's okay with me now. Maybe I can let go. Okay. Before I read the title cards, or at the end can I just say that my personal vision of who Jon Benet says that she is like a restless Bech like she is like absolutely do not I am not settling. This will not be the end of my story. I don't think she is going to have like Christian forgiveness to her. I feel like in my mind has the spirit of Zumur. Who's just like fuck? This I'm taking everyone down with me how? Love that for her I do. I. Mean I think it's better than this version where they elect this voice voiceover actress apologize. On to Steve for failing to solve her murder, and you know that she forgives and forgets about what's happened I think that that's just dumb. It's so sort of disgraceful to her memory. Yeah, I think this ending voiceover is very. SACCHARIN and it's very like. Dumb. Like. Under IT UNDERESTIMATES ARE I think it was probably written alive. Yeah, you know hundred. Okay, then we get a bunch of title cards over. The graves. Which I mean I think is actually her gravestone. Honestly, it looks exactly like, but it's as patsy. Ramsey died of cancer in June. Two thousand six, John Ramsey wrote a book on coping with suffering and unsuccessfully ran twice Michigan House of Representatives. That's Kinda depressing. Yeah, that's so depressing! I had no I had never heard that before. Like. Why does he want to be out there like that? Exactly, that's what I'm saying. They love the notoriety. Exactly like that's you know, he could have lived the rest of his life without anyone ever bothering him, but he decided to run for state representative. Okay, the statue of limitations on the charges against John and Patsy Ramsey expired three months after the hunter led the public to believe, there was no charges at all. So He's in the pedophile ring to fleet and Priscila white continue to fight for the release of the remaining fourteen pages of John and Patsy Ramsey's indictment brand jury. Burke Ramsey is now a computer programming? COMPUTER PROGRAMMER LIVING IN ATLANTA Steve Thomas never returned to law enforcement after the Ramsey case, he's successful businessman, husband and father, so he did have kids. That's good good. Good. I mean what movie I always find. These true crime wants to be a little hard. If it's a case, you've followed but I don't think anything short of Lake in extremely crazy well-produced, like maybe even a twenty four movie type version of this was released I. Don't think any movie would satisfy me. Yeah about. With this case, and it's also just we I don't even really think we've seen video of Jon benet talking. No never I? Don't think just pageants, we have. We have no idea like what she sounded like what her essence was like. She really just sort of lives in these photographs of her all dolled up so. yeah, I mean. I think this was better than the first movie, but I really hated the A really hated the voice over. So did you see? The Casting Jon. Benet Movie Yes Oh my God. That's so creepy Powell that I thought though was such a unique tae cast, because not only did you get to hear about the murderer? But then like you learned about these weird kind of unemployed character actors lives and like their own. told on themselves a couple time like there was like a like a creepy ass. Doodoo played John I believe and he was like. Oh, I. Think. It was like pedophile. said it. It's like Oh. You have personal experience with that. I love that I love the way it was shot on the way it was told I thought it was fascinating. Was it four this? Like what were they casting for? They were I think the movie was never casting for anything over. I think that all it was really casting for. Was that recreation at the end where they had like multiple patsies in a room multiple like that was just genius the way they pulled that off I don't think I've ever seen anything like that in. It was almost as campy as this case sort of needs and deserves like we need a campy answer to it, which is unfortunate, but I think a lot of people are also attached to this case I know I obviously have never moved past it. Director of this movie has done He did the unauthorized saved by the Bell Movie Restless Virgins He's done a few movies that we've done here and I think that. A lot of the acting stuff is like direction in my mind with these movies. It's just like not really reading the room but yeah, it's the views are pretty pop in on IMDB. I feel like we should wrap this up. Normally. Get into some of that but I feel like we wrap this up. You were amazing. Thank you so much to. We're GONNA make sure that all of your information is in description the podcast including a link to your pod. What does your podcast come out? Yeah, we come out on usually every Thursday. Awesome while I am so excited I feel like. People listening while head over in in. Listen to you guys and thank you so much for taking the time to do this with me. I appreciate it. Thanks so much for having me. Of course all right, guys. We'll talk to you soon. Thanks so much for listening by.

Patsy Ramsey John Helped Burke John John Linda COPS Jon Benet Burke Ramsey Steve murder John Jami Atlanta CBS Germany CBS Bill Gates patsies John Ramsey
Full Episode: Friday, January 15, 2021

20/20

1:20:33 hr | 12 hrs ago

Full Episode: Friday, January 15, 2021

"Sure you can be. I grandfather was a detective on one of the biggest unsolved murders in our generation. This a child who was put to bed by her parents they just come saying no is police found evidence from the beginning that in their minds pointed directly to the ramseys time to leave the media laptop with the boulder. Police department wanted to tell us all of us that wanted to pursue the intruder. We're being removed from the case. Andy just said. I have a name. I want you to write down. And i did. And he said that's where you start all but one person on that list is innocent. Then you got your killer. sean ramsay. The little girl in colorado was murdered. Clean a jon benet jon. Benet murder has frightened residents of boulder The murder of comedy ramsey really is right now in this country the most infamous case you get their own people. Want to know who killed jon. Benet ramsey there is so much mystery rounding giannis murder and it's lasted nearly a quarter of a century. The reason i think it continues to wrestle is because we just don't know she was a spark plug in our family. I looked she kept things alive. Mongolia was abolished of fire. She was always very caring spiritual she could stand on her head she get hula-hoop could rollerblade suit just recently learned how to find a rockfall. She'd was a six year old girl. Somebody's daughter somebody's sister and she was taken from us in a very violent way. I think the fascination for this case endures because we still don't know who killed this little girl want to know what happened to job and we want justice for job. That's why the case indoors until the day we die. We'll be looking for the person that murdered her daughter in nineteen ninety-six a little girl named jon benet ramsey six years old. She was brutally assaulted and murdered on christmas night in the basement. Upper home and builder. Hey guys welcome to our first. Ever podcast episode. Thanks for tuning in. My name is jessica. I'm lexie and we're sisters. I think there's a new generation. Who's into the jon benet ramsey case. Who were her age. We're told to stay inside by their parents when she was murdered. I think yeah growing up it was it scared me a little bit because we're the same age and no same state and blonde hair blue. I you know it was a little bit scary. I remember thinking that. I could not believe that this happened like so close to our home. You think that your home is safe that this place is safe and you just don't think that it could have happened here and it did. The murder took place sometime between ten pm. On december twenty fifth and five thirty. am on december twenty. Sixth nineteen ninety six. The know a lot about the case My two girls. They love the grandfather. Grandfather was a detective on one of the biggest unsolved murders in our generation. The jon benet ramsey murder. And with this podcast. We wanna talk about the jonbenet ramsey case from our grandfather lucent's perspective was a really legendary detective colorado. That was brought in early to investigate homicide once. He got a hold of a case he never let go and he had great attention to detail. Blue smith made an eight hour video presentation that includes notes on mackay's potential suspects the evidence he collected over the years. It's a virtual encyclopedia of the jon. Benet ramsey case retired homicide detective from the poorest springs. Police department and i have worked for ten years. What i'd like to do today is to just show presentation that was made back in nineteen ninety eight. He had a history of closing cases. He had a ninety percent success rate. He advocated for the victim and stood in their shoes. So that's why we've chosen the victims shoes as our podcast name. This really meant something to him and he really felt he needed to find the killer of this little girl and he needed to do that. For johnny and first and foremost we wanted to continue our grandpa's legacy that was one thing he asked for before he died. He wants to remain alive. There's a saying here in colorado. That boulder is thirty square miles of fantasy surrounded by reality. It's very wealthy. It's well to boulder look like something out of a story book in many ways especially the neighborhood in which the ramseys live john and patsy ramsey lived in a sixty seven hundred square feet. Tutor there on fifteenth street. But i'd like to do first is to just talk a little bit about the ranji family. John ranchi interested sailing. Fly as you. Ramsey was the mother john and patsy ramsey had two children together their firstborn was burke. Nine years old. In jon benet six and a half in kindergarten. I'm a daughter sister. I'm a friend. I'm a wife and mother. John used to tell people that. I invested in futures with the features of my children. That's how i usually answer my occupation. My name is john andrew. Ramsay shamanee's half brother. John would go around and ask everybody how their day was and what they did and just an energetic and fun kid by all accounts. They were happy couple. Patsy was a high society woman from atlanta. John was a smart guy. Who had just been nominated or voted as entrepreneur of the year. Patsy ramsey was a stylish woman. She was a former beauty queen. Miss west virginia. All that is interesting. Because the case had gained so much attention because jon benet was in pageants by the time jon benet was four years old. She was in the pageant system with big hair and lots of makeup. I think it starts with the video of jon benet. It starts with the fact that you have this beauty pageant video of a six old. That is where the starts is people started saying. What's that about. How could that played him. I think it also touches on parents who have young kids like. Could this happen to me. I really believe that. If we hadn't seen the beauty pageant photos of jon benet ramsey it might have just gone into the ether as another child murder. Hundreds of children are murdered in america every year. But this one captivated us because we saw the beauty pageant pictures. I'm patsy ramsey. This is jon benet. She's taller for seven. Well christmas themed. Be kind of a crescendo for our family Just became this moment. We all look forward to a day of peace and quiet. Christmas patsies favorite time and she really went all out. She had a christmas tree for every room and every tree had a theme. The windows were done with garland. The staircases had garland there were red ribbons everywhere. Everything was about entertaining and she loved people. She loved to make people feel good for all of us at our house to everyone. Your house. merry. Christmas and the happiest of new year's there was plenty to celebrate in the ramsey home. Patsy ramsey had recently been declared clear of this ovarian cancer that she had battled and that was a huge relief to come back from stage. Four cancer plenty to celebrate that christmas so on christmas day. The ramsey family opened presence at their home that morning. Patsy made pancakes. Johnny rode her bike around on the patio. And both jon benet. And burke had friends over to play that morning the kids went outside to play with their friends with their new presence. They were going to a friend's house for dinner that night. We were gonna leave early the next morning for a trip to our summer cottage in michigan. Who is going to be the first time. I've gotten all of our family together in michigan for kind of a post christmas celebration so we came home. We came went to bed Jon benet was asleep when we arrived home. We took her to bed. Burke to bed at the alarm went to Don't asleep the next morning. Patsy was up first. You get up you addressed. What happens. I went down our steps from our into second floor. Then i started walking down the spiral staircase and as i came to the vomit stairs worth three pages neatly laid across one of the runs stairway. She picked up the note and she started to read it. I just remember when i ran. We have her daughter just this overwhelming fear. And then i just screamed for. John screamed eighteen with going on a journey. Are you if you think you may be depressed. Or you're feeling overwhelmed or anxious better. Help online counseling offers licensed professional therapists. Who are trained to listen and help with issues including anxiety grief. Depression relationship and family conflicts difficulty sleeping. Lgbt matters trauma anger self esteem and more everything. You share is confidential simply. Fill out a questionnaire to help. Assess your needs then get matched with a counselor in under forty eight hours easily scheduled secure video or phone sessions and exchange unlimited messages to communicate with your therapist at your convenience. If for any reason your unhappy with your counselor you can request a new one at any time at no additional charge. Join the million plus people who have taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced. Better help counselor. Better help is also an affordable option and our listeners. Get ten percent off your first month with discount code. Twenty t. w. e. n. t. y. Get started at better. H e l p dot com slash t. w. e. n. t. y. I can. I was the call taker that night shift when the call came they straight out. Okay ransom note here. She was hysterical. And she says there's a kidnapping. Okay talk done. We just got the note. Said if you do anything if police combat fbi come your daughter will die. You call nine one one. I had to do something. I had take action in all this happened. In a matter of components patchy calls nine one one at five fifty two am and the first officer writes at five fifty five. Wow that's fast really fast. More friends start to arrive in more officers. Start to arrive at this point. Lots of people are at the house. We called friends for help your daughter as goals. She's in the hands of madman. My phone rain pam. They've got her. What do you mean they've got her. They've kidnapped jon. Benet she's gone. What was the atmosphere like as you sat and waited. Well it was. It was awful first of all. We didn't know whether the kidnapper was call that day because the note said i will call you tomorrow. Get plenty of rest. I was deathly afraid. The tomorrow was in fact. The twenty seven you lose our perception of time place. You just been dealt a horrible crushing blow. The police came in just before six o'clock in the morning on the twenty sixth of december thinking that we had a missing child they go into this beautiful house with eighteen or so rooms and they did a cursory search of the residents and they didn't find anything the mistakes they made. Were outrageous there mystifying. They were stake after mistake after mistake. The police did a terrible terrible job securing that scene. And if you don't secure the scene you don't get good evidence. People were streaming through that house. They were in the kitchen. They were in the living room. There was some friends of patsies that we're helping her wipe up. The kitchen could have been fingerprints there. You had friends that were windex in the sink. Washing dishes and people were making coast in the kitchen and yes kidnapping is a crime scene. But but we were so focused on getting. Jon benet back. That was the task. What we have learned is that everyone should have been sequestered into an area so that people were roaming around house and that was a mistake on my part. The reason i didn't is because these people were the ramseys support system. There was no information at all to indicate the family was involved. At that point it was a crime scene and it was getting contaminated. The note was being passed around and reviewed by their friends of all. The evidence left behind that ransom note is the most baffling number one. It is too damn long. A ransom note is not that long ransom note. Says i have your child. I want a million dollars. I'll call you later. This is the infamous ransom note. It begins mr ramsey. Listen carefully it was three pages long and some people believe that it can knepper that was truly kidnapping. Somebody would have written a very direct into the point rants and no three pages. What was that about that. Ransom note was the war piece of ransom notes. Who would write a three page rambling. Ransom note other than someone trying to cover their tracks. Who was in the house. If the weirdest note. I've ever read. You will withdraw one hundred eighteen thousand dollars from your account. One hundred thousand dollars will be in one hundred dollar bills and the remaining eighteen thousand dollars in twenty dollars bills. You think about this number in. How is it relevant in. It's relevant because john ramsey got a bonus from his company for one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars. Many people knew that. I'm gonna guess not a lot of people. Are grandpa compared the note to some examples. Saudi founded john. Be ransom was playing in boulder. Dr a that tap gesture list is something. A lot of the same verbiage the The note of if we catch you talking to a stray dog she dies. Used against you and your family are under constant scrutiny as well as the authorities don't try to grow a brain john not attempt to grow brain. Our guys short real watcher of the particular type of movies. Then what does this tell you in terms of evidence first of all that someone felt comfortable spending time writing this long note in the house and whoever wrote the note is about to go from a kidnapping suspect to a murder suspect. The ransom note. Who indicated there would be a call between it and ten. Am and the police. Prep me on how to respond in a phone. Call very important to here. John voice police officers were leaving at nine. Thirty nine forty five before that time period of the phone call had even expired one loan. Detective flipped on the c. detective. Linda aren't is left behind in the house with john and patsy ramsey. She didn't have extensive homicide experience. Managing a kidnapping and what was about to unfold. This was likely pretty for one. Loan police officer. Everyone is cleared but the family friends victim advocates and the detective so nobody was cleared. That doesn't make sense to me. Because everyone should be clear from the scene she she crashing straight piece. I was praying. Lynn aren't had said to me. We're hopeful that kidnappers will. We'll just drop. Jon benet off someplace and i kept looking out the window clutching this cross and just imagine that she was gonna come running down the street. They're waiting for a telephone call from the kidnappers. What's going to happen next. Kind of call comes and goes in. There's no acknowledgement that. The deadline imposed by the author of the ransom. Note has come and gone. Nobody seemed to market or freak out about it. She noticed john ramsey checking his mail in the kitchen thought. That was odd. Linda art tells the restless john to look around the house. If anything is missing or looks strange check the house. Top to bottom. Look for anything that might belong to. Bed is in place where it shouldn't be. John took profanity with him. They went to the basement and john opened the door. You opened the door to the small room. I knew instantly instantly. What i found i found my daughter. She's lying on a white blanket. The blanket was wrapped around her Her hands were tied above her head tape over her mouth. I immediately knelt down over her fellow. Cheek took the tape off immediately offered mouth. I tried to untie the core. That was around her arms. I couldn't get the knot. Tied picked her up. And i ran upstairs and myron floren still at a hope that she was alive. And i see john ramsey carrying jon benet at the last three steps from the basement. She looked like she was sleeping. She had some marks on her face. Not knelt next to her and on lean down to her face and john lee down obstacle and he asked if she was dead. And i said yes. She's dead as we looked at each other. I remember and a war shoulder holster talking my gone. Right next to me and consciously counting. I've got eighteen bullets. Why did she do that. Because i didn't know if we'd all be alive. When people showed up she clearly felt in danger at that moment. She made it clear that she thought that john ramsey killed his daughter and that they might kill her. It was shocking to me that she would think that. How is it that you have all these cops searching the home and nobody finds the body. But you asked john ramsey to go look for things out of the ordinary and he finds his daughter in a room that had never been opened by anybody in law enforcement. That's crazy. He lays her on the living room floor. Where just a few minutes before friends and neighbors have been walking and you know bring in fibers and whatever could contaminate the scene and then the khuda gras. He grabs a blanket which is full of who knows what kind of contaminants and throws it over the bombing. Patsy was being kept out of the room. And i didn't want patchy to see benet laying there like that. I remember walking in and seeing her lying there in front of the christmas tree. I knelt down over her and just laid my body on her body and cheek against her cheek and it was called father. Rawal was there. He started saying the last rites believe. And i just come saying. No no a Kidnapping out show has turned into the murder of benet. Ramsey was murdered and for riffing way many injuries to the little girl's body. We have the x ray of her skull which shows a fracture of massive. This is an eight inch skull fracture. So we're talking in major force. This is just a massive blow But the ultimate cause of death wish strangulation with something called a gherat brad. What type of a weapon is a garage. How does it work is a device of string and it's wrapped around would ends up being a piece of pink and what happens is as john. Manet is losing consciousness. She's leaning forward and so this gets tighter and tighter and you can see how it cuts into my hand. You can see exactly why it cut into her neck and then ultimately according to the is what kilter. It seems to me that she had been attempting to remove the ligature from around her neck. And that tells me she was alive when she was garad. There were signs. That jon benet had also been sexually abused. The broken pieces of the paintbrush that were used for the garage. Were also used to sexually assault her. What does it tell you about the murderer. Just how vicious awful. This death was for her person. That would do this to a six year old in this fashion clearly is into sort of sadistic behavior that they like torture to a certain extent. This is clearly somebody who was really into this and was here with the intent to kill. There was no evidence of break in. There was no jimmy on the front door. There were four people in that house and one died overnight from the very beginning. They suspected the parents within minutes from this was they were going to go after. And that's what they did. The police are thinking. We gotta talk to those parents and we gotta talk to them right now before they start getting their story straight. Together they brought johnny's body out past the candy. Canes that were decorating the front of the house in there were only like to reporters outside to capture that and then the storm happened. Jon benet ramsey. The little girl in colorado was murdered. Anything jon benet jon benet. Murder has brightened residents of boulder news outlets from around the world descended upon boulder and were just hiding in trees and digging trash following new around town and it was it was the only ramsey case was completely out of control. You also have to remember the oj. Simpson case had draft up the twenty four hour news cycle there content dried up and so along came the ramsey family. And we fit right into that slot jon. Benet ramsey was a precocious six-year-old. Strangle dan basement of her own hall. You have the shock this incredibly horrendous crime then you had these videos at surface of this beautiful young girl. Dancing costumes and those are the first viral video. That's part of what. Turn it into a international circus now. We have instagram and snapchat for back. Then this was one of the first moments in time where something truly went viral. This little girl's image was everywhere overnight. The biggest negative factor about john and patsy ramsey was that they had allowed their daughter to be in child beauty pageant contests and people did not like them as grant stated. This was brutal premeditated murder. Not just a little dog on the head covered up by perverted staging. It seems unimaginable to most parents out there that any parent could do something this brutal this heinous to their own child and yet police found evidence from the beginning that in their minds pointed directly to the ramseys. Particularly amy when you start with children of this age when they died tend to die at the hands of their parents to focus is naturally going to be on the parents to begin with now in the house. The ransom note is written on a pad the belong to patsy so this is the pet. This location right here is. The note was physically found by patsy. The pin that was used was in the house. So this is the garage. That was used in the murder of jon benet and it's a special significance because of what it was made from. Yes it basically is an artist paintbrush broken and what's important is that it actually came from passes art supply and there were even fibers on the back side of the duct tape that had been on giannis mouth from patsies clothing and that was very very important but there are problems because patsy lived in that house with those fibers. Have been there anyway. The police started thinking. Maybe this is just a cover up that the ramseys harmed their child some way then panicked and tried to create basically a kidnapping scenario. Patsy and john should have been taken to the police station immediately for separate interviews for examination of their body for defensive boons for collection of clothing. That never happened at this point. They haven't interviewed the mother or father not surprisingly. They're still very grief-stricken They have not been in any kind of condition to be interviewed a couple of days after he finds his daughter's body in the basement. Police speak the john ramsey. But this is not a formal interrogation or father myself. We all marched into that police station. Get blood we get fingerprints. The thing that really stuck with me is two detectives ham either business cards and one says narcotics officer and the other auto theft and i bury my head in my hands. 'cause i knew at that point. We're in a bad spot. Boulder police didn't have the resources to solve a complex homicide. John interviewed with boulder. Please patsies doctor. Said she was too medicated. At unable to get on a bed. The police for faced with lawyers and Wealthy friends people in the community. Who told the police please give them room. They're grieving what's the matter with you though. The police had spoken to the ramseys. What they really wanted to do was formerly interrogate them. The police are thinking we gotta talk to those parents and we got to talk to them right now before they start getting their story straight together. You're lawyer is advised you then not to submit to police questions. Why not people say. Wouldn't you have to tell them everything. Well i don't recall that are lawyers told us that at the time we said you know. Yeah we want to keep working with you but you come here. We can't go out. Passy was in bad. Bassey was barely able to move. We were perfectly willing and anxious to work with the police to find the killer. We had higher priority at that point and that was to bury. The family is lying. The body back to atlanta burial. On new year's eve jonbenet was laid to rest just outside of atlanta georgia. The services in loving memory. Jon benet patricia ramsey refer back to atlanta to bury shamanee atlanta atlanta. Be where my older sister better is buried we give. Thanks today for jon. Benet for the love that she had for her parents. I want to go back to the funeral. Whatever we do. We're going to go through it together. We may not get far but sure as the star where ever we are. It's together we saying that is saying that together in single driving in the car. We just knew that we would always be together. And everything wanted my children to know that. I was with them through thick and thin regardless of what happens in life. Unconditional love go places. Now every murder case that i've ever the parents are so grief stricken but they sometimes make a nuisance out of themselves at the police department the ramsey literally the day after benet funeral. Sit down for a television interview next thing. The police knew they were on cnn. The boulder police don't interrogate the ramseys bach. They remained the main suspects. Many people found the randy's behavior peculiar suspicious weird off balance and from that thought they must be guilty when you realize that you to were the prime suspects. What did you think. Why don't you feel what did you say. But we were outraged. How could they think that we were normal family. I didn't believe you just can't believe it. I mean we're suffering from having lost. Their child meant for someone to accuse. You just can't believe that happened. A lot of people said you know if that were me. I'd be on the steps of the police department finding the murderer of my daughter and they go on cnn and say they didn't do it. Anyone knows anything. Lee leave help is. We've sensed from our friends that Tragedy has touched not just ourselves and our friends but people as a mother. My heart went out to this couple. If i were a resident of boulder. I will tell my friends to keep cloth but my journalistic brain said to make. This isn't right. They should be talking the police not the public police and their ten day search of the ramsey house and remove the crime scene tape it is unknown. If the family intend to resume residency at the home we have no comment on the whereabouts of the family at this time. Starting from the beginning of this case we. The media lapped up with the boulder police department wanted to tell us about what they were doing. In the jon benet ramsey case for the most part the police were very tight. Lipped in this thing. They didn't tell us a lot of secrets. They didn't leak a lot of information. Other than broadly. We think the mom did people who believe patsy killed their daughter believe it was over a bed wedding and then staged to look like an intruder. Ooh the bed wedding theory was a big theory at the time. The bed wedding theory suggests that patsy was angry with jon benet and killed her because the bed was wet. I'm a cancer survivor of stage. Four cancer when you're standing on the brink of death with a terminal illness your priorities suddenly lineup. Bed-wetting wedding is totally insignificant. I love my children. I wouldn't harm them for anything in the world but americans were fascinated with the possibility that the ramseys might have done this. What happened in that house. Did she go berserk and hurt romney by accident. Not on purpose certainly. Did burke heard her by mistake and cause her death was leaked by boulder police that it was possible. That burke ramsey's boyce was on the nine one one call that patsy had made the nine one one operator believed that she heard an unexplained voice at the end of the nine one. one call. Patsy ramsey is put the phone down but she hasn't hung it up and the nine one one recording continues. I heard her say okay. Called the police now. What i thought And then i heard two people talking to her. And i heard a male voice respond and then i heard a more faint voice. Respond some speculated at the time that faint voice might have been burdened with family. Denied it saying he was asleep at the time. We asked an expert to weigh in on the call. My name is ed premium audio video forensic expert and i was asked about what people have heard throughout the years from this nine one one call we go pats speaking to the operator. We could clearly see bright yellow and orange colors as i zoom in to the recording. Here i can see the formats. This is a visual representation of sound the brighter the color the louder volume the sound changes right here the section in question where people are hearing voices we can see some sounds but we don't see the forms like we saw over here so i can't rely on those being words. There's just not enough signal to noise ratio in order to be able to perceive what those sounds are. They could be noise and they could be voices. I just can't as a scientist arrive at a reasonable conclusion. The secret service and the fbi also concluded that no additional conversation is audible. I think we've been way too much way on whether or not burke ramsey was present when mom makes the nine one one call if burks voice was there or john ramsey's voices there does that mean the killer and it's important to remember at the boulder police considered burqas suspect. They suspected the parents even though the ramseys had no history of abuse or neglect of their children. All the evidence shows me that up until this point they were devoted parents. Would you get up in the middle of the night and slaughter your job or parents. We love our children. There's so many puzzle pieces here that just don't fit. Do you really think your daughter's murderer will be found. Yes i do because the killer has never been pursued an objective wide investigation. Hasn't taken place. The parents have been focused on. That's all it's been done might be an unknown entity that not one of the suspects all been currently talking about and i. I don't think any of the suspects were talking about. We know that just within a few mile radius of the ramseys home there was proximate. Thirty eight to forty sex offenders in that area and the question is have. They all been completely. Was it an accident. Was it intentional premeditated. I want to say something to the person or persons that took this baby from us. The list of suspects narrows soon. There will be no one on the list. But you the grand jury couldn't point the finger at one or the other but they were convinced it was one of the two down and at the other one helped draw brush. Torch dedicated a big part of his life to find a job as burger. Technically smith was like whoa. You just said. I have a name i want you to write it down. Lou took all of the information that he had developed a database. Three generations of my family has been involved working on the giambi. Ramsey's first officer arrives at five fifty five. That's fast it's really fast lose. Smith's family believes that all one person on that list is innocent. We're better positioned than we've ever been to solve. The jon benet ramsey. John was an entertainer she would entertain at the drop of a hat perform natural. I competed with tom. Buzney wonderful costumes and outfits. And she had this presence. It wasn't really a competition to her. It was more of like this is fun. Let's go on stage and do that. Ninety minutes sean. And what is your favorite animal at the zoo. Today that little girl would be thirty years old. I was her age. She would be my age now. She would be pursuing her own career. She never got to grow up. She is first time now. The police were convinced. Pretty early on that patsy and john were involved and you had a district attorney's office there were saying not so fast and that created enormous tension between the two thirty. I think there are some new developments. Alex hunter the district attorney. Wanted someone to come in with fresh eyes in this case and look at it from the perspective of a defense attorney who might have killed jon benet as an intruder not just the parents but from the outside boulder. Da alex hundred brought loose-knit out of retirement to help solve the ramsey case. One of the great challenges to try to do the case right and you know. I think we're making efforts to meet that. Challenge by involving people like loose smith. The legendary investigator loose meant he had a history of closing cases such tenacity. He was a bulldog once she got something in his mind. What you got the reins in his teeth. He was not letting go. Loose-knit was my father. He was just known as the of that solved cases when he got to a murder scene he spent time dictating everything he saw where the sun was in the sky. What the weather conditions were like. What the neighboring houses looked like. I grandfather was a detective on one of the biggest unsolved murders in our generation prior to this case loose smith had invested over two hundred homicide cases that led to arrests and convictions. La- dedicated a big part of his life to finding johnny's murderer when he started his investigation. He felt like everybody else did. That was probably one of two parents as she sold. The parents were probably involved in it. I thought this would be fairly education. I thought it would be a slam. Dunk and i remember talking to my daughter. I got a joke with her. Know if somebody did get the house. must've been santa claus coming down the chimney with a couple of days after my dad's started on the investigation when he had a chance to review pictures the evidence that he was already saying. I think that they need to look the other way. He was already noting in his journal that he felt that they needed to look at an intruder. Lou came up with the intruder theory. You can't think about that theory without associating it with loose med. The first thing that stood out to him was an open window in the basement There was a suitcase propped up against it. He didn't by the boulder police departments conclusion that no one could get in that basement window. He began to save. Maybe somebody did get into that house a show you how easily it can be done. So what did they do. He went and climbed in the window himself with a camera rolling to prove that it could be done. It really wasn't that difficult coming in that window But some say that the idea of somebody going in the window is complicated by something else that spotted in the images of the crime scene. When you go to a photograph of the actual window there are cobwebs in the window which could support the. No one did go through this window. The big question is could you have gotten through this window. The small window without disturbing this cobweb. Think the answer to that is maybe but the other important point is. How soon was this picture taken after jon benet was killed because spiders can replicate webs very fast also found in the basement by jonbenet's body a shoeprint high-tech brand. That did not match any shoes in the ramsey house. And then there's the high-tech footprint as well. There's a high tech footprint next to john manet that i think the investigators believe in maybe rightly so that that's the bad guys with some argued the footprint could have been inadvertently left by police officers there at the scene but another factor lucent's investigation to strange marks on jonbenet s face and back. The marks themselves both on the back and on a face where the same distance suddenly a little light went on and it was just like wait. A minute was a stun gun. Smith look did. All murderers stun gun was known to have been used. He examined images of a crime victim. Who had a gnome stun gun. Injury or sugary shepherd trump. he also looked into an experiment. Performed using stun-guns on pigs. These marks were also the same as the marks found on. Jon benet we get perfect much just like the baggage. But this brings back our grandpa's whole motto. That things are usually what they seem. Don't make it complicated. No reason at all for the ramseys jesus's time and reggie's don't have stuff. If it's not a stub. What is that question was. That's utah so everybody sort of pooh-poohed and ridiculed the intruder theory until loose-knit started to stand up point out things that everybody else from the boulder pd to the general public that large had overlooked or dismiss. He said wait a second. We need to look at this again. It actually is possible. It actually is plausible and in his view of it. It's actually the most likely thing that happened. Beliefs and the district attorney are at odds the. Da is looking at the intruder theory. The police focused on the parents. But both wanna get the ramseys to come in for a formal videotaped interrogation. Go back to the damn draw. Do it loose. Smith thought that the ramseys were being targeted unfairly. Focus something drastically. I had seen evidence of an intruder within a few weeks of as murder. Police had an important clue. The discovery of foreign dna on her body of crime scene detective discovered dna underneath jonbenet's fingernails and in her there. That did not match anybody in the ramsey family. That was not something that was made public for quite a long time time. The next four days after as johnson detective loose man was like whoa while. You're pouring water all over the intruder theory. You're not revealing that you have found unidentified. Dna at doesn't match anybody. In the ramsey family. Lou is just incensed that the focus is still being well. It could be patsy. Maybe we need to get her to confess. The ramseys had been interrogated five police. Four months after jonbenet's death but now authorities want the ramseys to come in again for a formal videotaped interrogation. There were months and months of negotiations things about whether they could be videotaped. What are the questions going to be. Should the boulder police be a part of it. Because the ramsey said we don't trust the police we don't wanna they're ultimately. The interrogation took place at a different police department and at the end the border police had to watch it from another building. The ramseys finally sit down with the police for a videotaped interrogation in june nineteen ninety eight a year and a half after jonbenet's murder wednesday june. Arpad chris rams tom. Haney was one of the most respected homicide. Detectives at denver was chosen to interview. Patsy ramsey. patsy ramsey had a year and a half to prepare night news. That was going to be tough to get a spontaneous response. You ever recall purchasing. Why can't be a house in a world that doesn't have duct tape. Because i i never liked it. Because gooey gooey louie. He started out softly and kindly and curious and then he got pointed with questions and that made patsy angry vital right now. We have in the process. Dan trae seven years to late. You to the job tried to mind She said it was impossible. That we had physical evidence linking her to scientifically give. Line flipped to go back to the of drawn. I didn't and we didn't have a clue anybody i am. So taken with her swagger. She tells them you know. You think you have some some evidence me well. You better look again charles. Read my left eye now. She's very feisty. she's very combative. And that doesn't mean she's guilty but it does mean she's innocent either have been mark out. You're walking on a street. Child clicked stood loose. Smith was assigned to interrogate john ramsey. We're lou interviewed someone. He pride anything out of people by being understanding and listening touch. Was this tape wrapped around anywhere. Stuck down very firm. I thought john was much more measured and composed you. Don't see the drama. I see a lot of pain. Nap man looked the latch. The door new meaning you say was white lightning just do i think those those tapes were so intriguing to watch the bottom line is. There's nothing there that they could use to say. Aha ha we've got you. Both john and patsy deny in the interrogation that anyone in their family killed jon benet. My dad's conclusions after that interview were just firmed up his belief that the ramseys had nothing to do with this murder. Shoot personal studio so that they're trying as you directions interesting. My dad started getting frustrated as time went on because he felt that the case against the ramseys being slanted where no other evidence was coming in. I got to something drastically wrong and that there was a gross injustice. In this case i had seen evidence of an intruder that night. Liz smith thought that the ramseys were being targeted unfairly and he didn't believe the police were listening to him. Smith so strongly disagrees with the prosecutors. Focus on the ramseys that he is resigning from the case. Saying the case tells me. John and patsy. Ramsey did not kill their daughter. The rose a letter to alex hunter telling them that he couldn't be a part of the persecution of these people is how he termed it. He wrote. I intend to stand with his family. And somehow help them through this and find the killer of their daughter. My dad may have resigned from the district attorney's office but he never stopped work on the case he walked johnny shoes and he owed it to her. He felt to continue his investigation. One thing loose fought to do with tele grand jury. His side of the story the intruder theory. There were too many questions in particular that dna in the under appears to have been from a man didn't match any one thing grand. Juries arrived at the boulder county justice center this morning and were escorted into the courthouse by sheriff's deputies. I think alex hunter got shamed and colin grand jury. I mean he didn't do it until september. Nineteen ninety eight almost two years later. And i think the media pressure and the pressure from the police department forced him to do it. Good morning counts and remember. This is after oj simpson. We're most people think that evidence of simpson's guilt was insurmountable jury in the above entitled action. Find the defendant orenthal james simpson not guilty of the crime of murder and yet he walked. Alex remember that he told me one time. I don't want to spend two years of my life and five million dollars for the tax payers money and lose in court under said a grand jury for thirteen months or thirteen months. Those people heard over hundred witnesses. Name is johnson web. I was a grand juror on the jon. Benet ramsey case bothers me that the murder of a little girl like this has gone on unsolved for essentially a quarter century members of the boulder. Grand jury looked very much like detectives themselves as they finally toured the ramsey from crime-scene perspective. It was very disturbing how she was found. She's on a concrete floor a garage around her neck and she six years old. That's pretty harm. Web told us that the grand jury spent most of their time focused on two main issues. I who wrote that ransom note we heard from three handwriting experts and even though the handwriting experts couldn't definitively say that she wrote it. They all three came to the same conclusion that it could have been patsy ramsey. The ramsey defense team had their own experts who said that the comparison between the writing on the ransom note and patsies handwriting was not conclusive. We asked an expert to weigh in on the case. My name is jennifer naso. I am a forensic document. Examiner handwriting is a great piece of evidence to have because you can identify the writer of a piece of frightening throughout the ransom note. There's potential that the author attempted to disguise their writing. It doesn't look smooth and fluid. It's very very shaky. So it looks like someone was purposely trying to shake their hand to alter the way that the writing looks. This is an example from the ransom. Note where you see that kind of type written formation of the letter day. This is also from the ransom note. Were you see that regular printed. a there are similarities between the ransom. Note and patsy ramsey's writing however the similarities that are seeing are very general in nature their characteristics that many people execute within the writing so here is another example bis formation seen in the ransom note is two strokes where there's the stroke dour. The pen is lifted up and then the bowl is created right. Here again from the ransom. Note where it starts the formation of the bowl and terminates upward so down here are examples of patsy ramsey's known writing than you do see some of those formations again. That is significant that we see each of the formations represented but keep in mind. This is one letter from the whole ransom note. Is it possible that patsy ramsey roach ransom note. Yes is it possible. Someone else wrote the ransom note. Yes the grand. Jury believed that she grow the second. Focus for this grand jury. According to jonathan webb was the viability of the intruder theory smit actually presented his intruder theory to the grandeur photo. Taken of the dream. Lytle of i listened. Detective this what. The grand jury wasn't buying the intruder theory because of those cobwebs in the window. The intruder theory didn't make sense to the to the grand jury. The boulder police said photographed cobwebs. So for someone to get through a small opening like that and not disturb a cobweb remarkable and grand. Jury does not decide guilt or innocence. The where regular jury does the grand. Jury is only there to decide whether or not there is probable cause to charge the suspects with a crime. We were troubled by. To what level of confidence do we need to have to vote to indict. And as the preponderance of the evidence which means greater than fifty percent and soon after that we voted to indict. Patsy and john are accused of forbidding child to be unreasonably placed in a situation which posed a threat of injury. The child's life or health which resulted in the death of jon benet ramsey and then in the other one did unlawfully knowingly and feloniously render assistance to a person with intent to hinder the apprehension of the person. These two things together make it clear that the grand jury couldn't point the finger at one of the other but they were convinced that was one of the two of them and at the other one helped. This is souther news at. There is high anticipation in boulder. Right now for a ramsey decision. And we're about to hear an announcement from boulder da. Alex hunter taskforce believe we do not have sufficient evidence to warrant the filing of charges against anyone who has been investigated at this time. I was shot extremely unusual for a grand jury to vote to charge and the da charge. It was the right decision. I think it was the right decision. I think no matter what you think about the case i think that they would never have gotten to conviction. Thank you very much. There were too many questions. In particular that dna in the underwear that appears to have been from a man didn't match anyone they knew done all this work to try and vet the ramseys woodwork. Have we done to truly vet other potential suspects in this case. That's why lewis. Smith continued investigating even after. He resigned from the case. Louche make calls me cold. And i said to him. I been praying for somebody to call and one list. I believe a friend of mine killed him purpose. Ho kids left behind. I believe over nearly thirteen years. Lou took all of the information that he had in this case and developed a database in this particular murder. He thought that. Dna would solve this case but loose-knit couldn't have imagined the advances in dna that were to come advances. That would lead to a number of big surprises in the case what was developed at a single touch dna. So i just touched this picture touch table. I have now left skin cells on both locations in theory that could be scraped and they could match that up to my dna in two thousand eight the then district attorney for boulder. Mary lacy decided to do round of dna. Testing on jonbenet pajama more than a decade later. The items were requested tested and they found something new remember. The previous analysis had already found dna from an unknown male under jonbenet's fingernails and in her underwear. Now this new touch. Dna uncover dna from at least one annot male. Maybe two on her leggings as well. That's pretty big thing. That's a pretty clear indication that somebody else was there you've got. Da now in three places on jonbenet's body that doesn't match anybody in the ramsey family. Anybody and nobody knows. Who's it is. And so i think that's what drove district attorney to make a comment that she's basically not gonna look at the family and the longer. The news broke here at the district attorney's office with this incredible letter to jon benet father. Da mary lacy wrote john ramsey. We do not consider your immediate family including you your wife patsy and your son burke to be under any suspicion in the commission of this crime. John ramsey appeared on a local newscast. We're certainly grateful for the knowledge. The we are innocent. This wasn't intruder. Which course we've always maintained Somewhere somehow there may be a match to that dna. Then you've got your killer Archer job i. So this shortage stupid. A loose-knit spent years organizing and investigating the evidence in the jon benet ramsey murder case but eventually he ran out of time when he got sick with cancer he knew that his time was limited and so during that time he just talked to others about not letting this case di he had people coming every single day sixty seventy eighty people a day coming to see him and they said their goodbyes and during that time he would still talk about the case. I remember the last. Three days slipped coma in the conversations. Become one way. You know what i don't know if you could hear you're not very much an honor to be here to celebrate loose smith's life and to share my thoughts with you. I'm john ramsey. I had the opportunity to visit week before he died. Remarkably during that time together lou talked a lot about the case he hadn't given up he'd never never never gave up. When loose-knit died he passed the torch of the jon benet ramsey investigation. His daughter cindy mara and she took it and he just said i have a name. I want you to write it down. And i did and he said that's where you start. We'd be glad to pay that. We don't have love electron report so we would need boulder to send it after my dad died. You know a couple of us our family and in some of his old thomas side partners we just formed team go down to number two because that is an state one. What we all share in common is that commitment to fulfil lose dying. Wish that this case doesn't die with him. And i think it said devotion that respect that love for lou is what keeps our team moving forward. There were a whole host of other possible suspects. This is bill nick. Rentals local santa in town. There's no way in the world that i could be involved in the death of this girl. Daughter what a perfect suspect. Santa claus wouldn't that have just hide it all up in a nice little stated that if you can't show me a motive show me evidence of bad character if you can't show me evidence about character show me tea. Had condensed thing. He knew about every person of interest into a spreadsheet. The team that has family created is confident that the killers name is spread sheet. So what do we know about. The person suspected of killing jon benet ramsey the. Da says the genetic profile. The dna belongs to a male. There were a whole host of other possible suspects ranging from known criminals to friends of the ramseys brad. Investigators looked to be on the ramsey family. In fact there was some speculation into potential involvement by two local men. Correct correct here. You have gary oliver. He was a homeless man who hung out at a church. Just a block and a half from the ramseys home and he confessed that he killed. Jon benet ramsey. In fact he called a friend right after she was killed crying sobbing saying he just killed little girl they took a look at him but eventually eliminated him because there is absolutely no connection between he and ramsey's and his dna. They used that to eliminate him. This is a bill mcreynolds. Lil local santa in town. I was think santa claus for three years at their party. And i always liked to ramsey party. So i call patsy in particular and said it's time for our party in apparently jon. Benet had made a comment that he built. The grills was coming into their house to see jon benet. I think everybody thought that was a little weird. His dna did match and he's out of the picture and then this is someone who actually gets brought up quite a bit. This is michael hell and this was high on loose. Smith's list michael hill goth was an interesting character cosby cold. I said to him. I've been praying for so million call in one list. Mike said he he wanted to kill himself to get it over with. And that's one thing and then he said a partner. We're going to make fifty or sixty thousand. at christmas. He wanted to crack human skull. Michael hell goth evidently committed suicide the day after the boulder district attorney threatened that. Hey we're going to find you. The list of suspects narrows soon. There will be no one on the list but you so he committed suicide after authorities said they were narrowing their list but he had a stun gun any had high tech boots. Correct stun gun a bit odd for people to have high tech boots fairly common thing for people to have but the real clinch sure would be. Dna didn't match and he has no connection to the ramsey family so he was ruled out and he was ruled out. And then brad who could forget john. Mark karr of kuwait quite the headline today died accidents. No everyone probably around the world. John mark karr. Her death was was an accident. Yes problem is he was in boulder colorado when she died and his dna didn't match and that was it he was ruled out. What does it say about the state of this case in the possibility of ever solving it. Well that's a big question. We went through. The people interests the suspects and came up with our top twenty. Take a look at it and run it through their program with our team has been doing is focusing on collecting dna and testing dna. Do you wanna touch with any wants to. I think we should make the effort. You wanna just start like maybe in september. And since lou has castaway the team has been able to clear a number of people from that list however the work is pretty slow because at the time and expense involved in locating somebody on that sheet and obtaining their dna and then testing it we have asked suspects dna and in other cases. We've i guess. Don't it the old fashioned way with surveillance and Trickery we've gotten together and followed people and gotten a discarded or some such thing so that is evolving constantly. So we're in better position today than we've ever been to solve the jon benet ramsey case we are just trying to eliminate people from that list and we just figure if we keep at it hopefully will finally whittle it down to one person remaining on that list. Lewis family believes that all but one person on that list is innocent murder. Jon benet ramsey will ever be prosecuted. Is it still just as mysterious today as it was in one thousand nine hundred six absolutely. I think it's even more mysterious now to some degree because people have moved away from john and patsy ramsey possible saucepans. And so then and you're faced with this question of the was in that house. Why did they target her. And to some degree that makes it even more fascinating person brantley hutch most in september we met with the boulder. Da's office and pd and what we've presented was a confidential list of our hot twenty people interest and the list of eight people of interest that our team had eliminated through dna analysis We just don't feel at this point that they are actively investigating this case. The boulder police department says the ramsey case is an active ongoing investigation. But they have never publicly commented on the handling of the case. This team is going to give up. There's a third generation and my daughter's and others that will continue on with this case when we end up being too old to do it But we're not gonna stop investigating. We're just not going to do it. True wrench that's an intruder at intruder. Indicate took its toll on a grammy emotionally and financially over the year and john ramsey with lose his job and spend millions on private investigators. lawyers and purity. There's still people today. John twenty two years later. Who believe you or pat. Burke had something as i know that in how they believed otherwise because as i told you even if we have a conviction confession and this person's prison there's going to be five. Ten percent of the population is still thinks guilty. My dad certainly suffered a tremendous amount. But i think this focused on wife today and enjoying life with his family and grandkids and he's remarried. Pets died from cancer in two thousand six. She's buried in marietta georgia next to jon. Benet day my mind. She's still my six year old little girl. That's how i remember her. Every once in a while see a little child from behind one yet ponytail girl but six years old and it catches me for a second because it looks like jon benet. The family has not lost the will to fight in the will find the killer. We work on this daily. There's a group of dedicated volunteers that were this daily. I want the trauma to stop for the family. And if we can find the killer and the next generation doesn't have to live with that trauma and the unknown and the speculation. Only way to do that is to find out who did it. I think it's really important for people to understand. This case can be solved. There's a narrative out there that this is an unsolved homicide and next week. We just have to accept that as fact and that is not the truth. We leveraged the evidence. We follow the facts. We will find this killer. I used to give people might trust. And i was there to lose. Everybody carries a burden. They struggled with wasser heartbreak. But everybody has to have hope just recognized. There could be around you.

jon benet jon benet ramsey patsy ramsey boulder john ramsey Benet ramsey Jon benet john Patsy jonbenet patsy John Benet ramsey ramseys atlanta colorado jon benet Ramsey
JonBenet Ramsey ////// We Have Your Daughter

True Crime Garage

1:46:02 hr | 1 year ago

JonBenet Ramsey ////// We Have Your Daughter

"Introducing the Jeffrey Epstein. I knew a new podcast from CNN. Hosted by Vicki Ward the seven episode series. Takes you behind the scenes to hear a one of a kind account of Epstein an individual. Who's more myth than man Vicky Ward has been reporting on Jeffrey Epstein for almost two decades and takes listeners beyond beyond the headlines to explore who Jeffrey Epstein really was where he got his money and the circumstances surrounding his death subscribed to the Jeffrey Epstein? New New. Wherever you get your podcast? I don't have time to be stuck at home this season with the flu and neither do you this winter. Treselle camp to knock out a cold at the I sneeze unease of the season. Other cold medicines only mask cold symptoms but Zych am homeopathic and clinically proven to short colds. When taken at the first sign not only Xichang Xichang cold remedy safe and effective but the citrus rapid melts are easy to take with you on the go and they even quickly dissolve in your mouth without water? You can find ends. I cam cold remedy products at all major retailers including Amazon Walmart and target visit Xichang dot com slash garage to receive a two dollar coupon on on your next purchase Jon Benet Ramsey she strangled with Colorado victim. Jon Benet Ramsey unknown intruder Robin Ramsey. Fill the parent sir. John Ramsden. Anybody have been him mm-hmm and I went more. Who is responsible Mr Ramsey? Listen carefully we are a group of individuals they represent a small foreign faction. We respect your business but not the country that it serves at this time. We have your daughter in our possession she. You're safe and unharmed. If you want her to see nineteen ninety seven you must follow our instructions to the letter you will withdraw one hundred eighteen thousand dollars from your account. One hundred thousand dollars will be one hundred dollar bills and the remaining eighteen thousand and twenty dollar bills. Make sure that you bring bring an adequate size attache to the bank. When you get home you will put the money in a brown paper bag? I will call. Oh you between eight and ten. Am Tomorrow to instruct you on delivering. The delivery will be exhausted so I advise you to be rested if we monitor. Are you getting the money early. We might call you early to arrange an earlier delivery of the money. Enhance an earlier pickup of your daughter under any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate execution of your job you will also. It'll be denied. Her remains for proper burial. The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you so I advise you to not provoke down speaking to anyone about your situation such as police FBI et Cetera will result in your daughter honor being beheaded if we catch you talking to a stray dog she dies. If you alert bank authorities. She dies if the money is in any way marked or tampered with she dies. You will be scanned for electronic devices. And if any are found found she dies you can try to deceive us but be warned that we are familiar with law enforcement counter measures and tactics tactics. You stand a ninety nine percent chance of killing your daughter if you try to outsmart US follow our instructions and you stand a one hundred percent chance of getting her back. You and your family are under constant scrutiny as well as the authorities. Don't try to grow brain John. You're not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult. Don't underestimate us. John used that good southern common sense of yours. It is up to you now. John Victory S. B.. TC Okay most people use the phrase ransom note. I'M GONNA call this a ransom letter because as you just heard it is long. Most ransom notes are short. We have your daughter. We want five hundred thousand dollars do not involve the police. We will contact you. This ransom letter is two and a half pages long written on your standard run of the mill. Eight and a half by eleven and three quarters inch paper now. What you're going to here is the captain and I tear through this ransom letter? You're going to get our opinions on different pieces of this letter as well as the instructions given to John Ramsey Ramsey on how to get his daughter back our opinions are going to be a combination of our personal opinions. Plus information that we've collected from other sources along the way who have scrutinized this same ransom bladder. I'll start us off captain with this up at the top of the letter at the beginning of the letter. Yeah there there. Is this great website out there. That's called statement analysis dot Com. Okay so some of our thoughts are some of the things that we mentioned here will include their thoughts as well. They are great website because they analyze these types of ransom letters as well as nine one one calls in. They have experienced doing doing this. You and I well. We got a little bit of experience ourselves doing this as we've been doing it now for several years but statement analysis dot Com. Tom They stay as well as a couple of books that I've read on this case the first line that they kind of question is the we are a group of individuals digitals and they point to this because a lot of people says this letter as a whole just doesn't make sense right and one thing that I want to keep in mind here here and we kind of did a little running around in our discussion last week about this case. But I think what's very important in the Jon Benet Ramsey Ramsey case to keep in. Mind when you're looking at each one of these items as we're going to do. I think you need to stay fluid fluid and you need to stay in the moment of what's going on with the case you know we were talking about the police showing up and how they didn't secure the scene and and You know people would point out. Well they don't even know if it is a crime if a crime took place right why should they secure it again. I believe that you WANNA stay. Fluid in that moment when you show up you have indicators pointing toward a kidnapping for ransom and so therefore it is a crime scene so obviously we do know some things that are going to come to light. We can look at those as much as we want but in the moment keep in keep in mind in the moment stay fluid as we go through this statement analysis dot Com as well as several other sources. Again points out that the letter is a whole does not make sense and they specifically Klay referenced. The line of we are a group of individuals pointing out. What exactly does that mean? What does the writer of this letter mean right because every group is comprised of individuals? I think it's a lie. We are a group of individuals. You would to say we are a group. That's true the other thing too that John Douglas would point out in his experience with random. Letters is that often. The the kidnapper is the authority in the situation. They're the ones that are going to call the shots. They're the ones demanding the ransom you're going to do this or that or this. Or that's going to happen or not going to happen. And he points out in his experience that often a you want to perceive a larger threat than what is actually going on. Because you as the kidnapper really only knows what everything that's going on the victims don't know everything that's going on. They only know what you choose to tell them in your letter right so John. Douglas would point out. Hey we are a group of individuals. We are a group if it was in fact just one person did eh kidnapped in wrote this letter. Then that makes sense to him because they would want to present themselves as a larger than life a larger larger threat. They're bigger they're scarier. It's not just one person. It's a group Brian. That evidence is followed back We represent a small foreign faction action. I think just that term is to back up the idea of a group of individuals the small foreign faction makes it seem like Something bigger and then when you get to we respect your business but not the we respect your business but not the country that it serves. Yeah again I think that's tobacco the small foreign faction The sounds very movie like to me. Yeah my thoughts here. They represent a small foreign faction. The use of the word small doesn't make sense to most because now it's it's the opposite where you say we are a group. You're trying to make yourself seem bigger. The threat seem more real bigger. Now smalls taking that down a notch foreign faction sound scary sound scary to me. But it's weird. Just those words together. The use of the word foreign sounds odd even if they would be foreigners to us. They likely wouldn't call themselves foreigners they would say something like we are the Islamic Jihad right. They wouldn't call themselves a small form. In fact I think it was serious. Ciro Wax Book where he states even a small foreign faction would not call themselves a small foreign born faction. It's just a weird weird statement. Yeah but I think right away it's it's establishing the mindset. You know this individual thinks. They said they're going to outsmart people with this nonsense I think the biggest thing in the letter to point to that it's not a group group of individuals is when he changes the narrative. And I'M GONNA say he but when he says I will call you I will call you between eight and ten am. Now I'm jumping some lines there but I think that goes back to a group of individuals vigils. The we turns to I correct and to me. That's proof that there was never a we. That's like a Freudian Slip Bright. Yeah that's that's interesting because at first analysis for me what my thought was if he saying and I agree with you will continue to say he he if he is saying we are a group. Oh and these men have your daughter right. You follow my instructions. Maybe he's the leader of this group. Maybe he's the brains the mastermind behind this whole operation. And he's the one that's going to be giving instructions. What makes it not work? That theory not working work is as you just pointed out that it starts with we and it ends with I so it does change along the way yeah. I think some people would argue well because because he's not with the other two individuals so that's maybe why he changes to. I will call you because they're going to be with your daughter but that's too much information. It's almost like stadium like once he goes to I again. If there's a group well there with your daughter they'll be monitoring you I'm not going to be with your daughter The very strange but I think also we can start by looking at this. No and I think it's pretty pretty clear to most people that it starts off a little sloppier and gets nicer as we go with the handwriting. Yeah the penmanship. Yeah not a lot nicer but a little bit nicer and I wonder okay so there's so much to get into one. Where did this individual right the note we we do know that the the paper this came from a pad inside the Ramseys home home? That's right there was a pin that was found in their home that they believe was the pin for note so this could go multiple ways. Did the person possibly steal the pad write the note and then bring it back. My issue with that idea would be both. Yeah you wrote the note. But why would you bring back the pad doesn't make sense to me But the note seems creased. which to me? Why would you crease? Nope if you're writing reading it in the kitchen or where that pad would be and then you're just transferring over to the steps why crease they sit. All the crease is very weird to me as well and I'm I'm with you that I've never thought of the idea of somebody writing the letter elsewhere and and then returning it to the scene not that that's impossible anything in this case in particular. Anything seems to be possible muscle decreases odd. Because wouldn't your objective your goal as the kidnapper who wants a ransom now. Now there's people out there going well we you know we know this and we know that again. I'm staying fluid in the moment analyzing this particular item this evidence as it is in the moment. If we are to believe the ransom letter the goal of the author of this letter would be for for the parents of this girl to find the letter as soon as possible why we know that because of instruction given in the letter do not contact the authorities if they discover discover their daughter missing before they find this letter they could very well screw up that whole instruction by not knowing any better and calling the authorities. He's our daughter's missing right. We haven't found the letter yet. Why crease it Patsy Ramsey? Says she finds it on the spiral staircase and it's three pages and has is laid out side by side so we know that at some point the letter was not to be concealed. It was to be obvious it was to be found by the parents and and for the sake of not contacting the authorities. Well I'll tell you what. Why don't we tried to start at the at the top of the letter just work our way through and try to hit each thing along the way? I think it'd be easier for us all to play along at home. The letter starts off addressed to Mr Ramsey not to John Ramsey not to John and Patsy Azzi not to the parents. But two straight up Mr Ramsey which I find to be interesting for several different reasons reasons. It's a choice that the author is making. It's a choice to only address this to Mr Ramsey. A lot of these ransom Notes that we've seen in the past they don't even need to address it to anyone the line that we have your daughter clarifies exactly who the letter was was intended for right so it was a choice to address it to Mr Ramsey. Now one thing that a lot of the TV shows documentaries point out in in this case the next line is listen carefully and they all point to that being weird because this is a letter. It's not a speech. It's not somebody shouting threats at somebody or calling on the phone. This is a letter. You're reading the words the word say listen carefully. You don't listen you're reading I get it. That's never seemed weird to me. I I've always taken that as just like I'm the authority. Listen carefully here we go. Yeah I think it's a little strange elma sounds sounds like something you'd say on the phone. Call them listen carefully. I have your daughter. Yeah but I also think is it that big of a deal probably not but also also I wonder if that points in any direction on where they got this possible idea to kidnap a girl in the first place all right then we have the letter we respect your business. Okay we have your daughter we want one hundred eighteen thousand dollars or she dies. But Oh by the way Mr Ramsey. Here's a mild compliment. We respect your business right shows that they care about Mr Ramsey at some on some level and some people have pointed out that if Patsy Ramsey was the author of the ransom letter that she may have chose to mention this to create some kind of distance between John's company and the investigation bright regardless the writer is aware of John. Ramsey's business sir. The letter and that he is successful right. If the rider is interested in a ransom they are targeting. What many believed to be a weird amount of money one hundred eighteen thousand dollars in cash at the ready according to Steve Thomas's Book Jon Benet inside inside the Ramsey murder investigation from a leading detective on the case the author wrote we D Show Letters D. O. with the? Da Crossed out. We we do respect your business deck. Detective Thomas takes that to mean. Either we do respect back to your business or the author was starting to write out. We don't respect your business but then changed their mind. mid-sentence this this you really have to question as it goes to motive right because at this moment in the investigation looking at this letter this is supposed to be laying out the motive for what is going on here and it would point out that the author is if Thomas is right that they were starting to write. Don't we don't respect your business. Right at. The author is undecided if they respect Ramsey's business up into the point of writing that sentence if it is an intruder who wrote the letter letter. It's just you broke into this man's home and according to the letter to kidnap a small child and threatened the parents with the beheading of the child. Yet you're undecided on how you feel about John's business. Yeah but I also think to me. This point says somebody copying in a letter My gut feeling says that this letter was composed somewhere else and they thought to be. I'm going to be real smart about this and get away with it so therefore I'm going to write the letter inside the house use pin from inside the house or use a paper from inside aside the House I wouldn't bring the layer that I wrote with me and it might have stated we do. Respect your your business but then messed up and then realize while well you can just put we respect your business that works too. But there's obviously there's edit there but I but I I believe the person is reading off their letter and maybe there's not a lot light in the house and so again I also think one of the reasons why it's sloppier in the beginning a lot of people when they start writing it's a little sloppier but I also think it's sloppier because this individual is not wearing gloves right. Oh I think you know gloves and could be very nervous. Bright and maybe the nerves are easing up as they continue to write. I KINDA AM with Steve Thomas here on his thoughts about believing that the writer was intending to write the word. Don't we we don't or we do not respect about your business because we do respect your business or we respect your business the same sentence and it's not necessary to cross out do in that in in that moment so that seems weird now the writer goes on to say we respect your business but not the country that it serves. So are we to believe the Jon Benet was kidnapped and then murdered because someone has a hatred for the United States. Most people would agree. This crime is not an international national incident. So it's just weird to put that in there that to play that toured motive. We you know maybe be. There's many factors based in to why you are going to leave this letter but to include we'd you know the we don't respect the country that it serves that your business serves. It just seems a very strange thing. I think this is pointing out to what you say. It's it's not a group. It's not a small foreign faction but if we mentioned some distaste or hatred for the United States in that same letter it's it's there too it's purposely. Put there to confirm that we are a foreign entity right right again. I think it's as simple as I'm going to throw some of these these things into try to throw you off the of who I really am but I think the fact that they sit there and say while we respect your business. That's A. They made that choice. Therefore they're showing some kind of concern for Mr Ramsey later on. They show some concern for him when they say You know be rested causal. The delivery will be exhausting. I advise you to be rested. We you would not put that. If you didn't in care about the person on some level this is another example of people say well that's shows up. Patsy Coulda wrote the note because she the the writer keeps showing affection almost for John on some level. Captain I respect your talent but not the garage that serves deal with that. Get Out of my garage. As you pointed out the writer misspelled to very common words One of them being business and the other possession however the writer then correctly spells the words deviation and attache even including the accent on the word attache many believed that the writer purposely misspelled those two words to try to make it look like an uneducated in person or again a foreign person wrote this note. Yeah alive people pulling that to be patsy Ramsey and the idea that okay. We're soon down to write this. No we're trying to disguise our handwriting. So we make it a little more sloppy at the beginning. That's hard to keep up over two and a half pages ages. So that's why the sloppiness goes away but also at first of all. Let me misspell a couple lanes to throw them off the scent and then they kind of forgot about that. Because I don't think there's another misspelling for the next paid in the half. As you point out captain both of the misspellings occur when there is a double s US double letter S. situation. I think maybe this could be a tell. Almost like a signature or fingerprint. If in fact this was not made eight up right I want everyone to just stop and think for a minute. Do you have a couple of words that for whatever reason your brain just seems to jumble up the letters in those words or or screw up the spelling of those words regardless of how often or how many times you look the word up. have an auto corrected or ask somebody for the spelling captain. Did you think of any words that that that you have trouble with fish pony hip hop hip hop anonymous. Damn you you give him all the easy ones. All the whole English language is very very difficult for me to spell anything correct. I wonder again like you said is a tell or is it on purpose not on purpose to spell it wrong but his the author trying to give us a hint of who it is By making these mistakes so the reason why I say that it could be a signature signature or almost like a fingerprint for the author of the letter would be is if this person always miss spells. These two words when somebody would be aware of that like for me. I know the vacuum and convenient does towards. I'm like I'm never never going to spell them correctly. The W for years always screwed me up. I think I've straight actually I take that back. I think I've straightened out my vacuum situation. But for whatever reason convenient is the most inconvenient word for me because I always want to put the I in a weird spot I I will never get it right but anybody that I have corresponded with many times may know that that I always have trouble with that word. And then they could think of all nick the extra crispy. Colonel wrote this ransom letter because he jumbled up the eye and convenient. Yeah I I don't know why you'd put vacuum in a ransom note but it's your ransom note so your party. I did what I didn't write a ransom note. I just asked everybody to think of some ladder. Some words that that they always have trouble with why I wanted to mention that we have commas and here so we have some some kind of knowledge of writing and we also have the big one to me is your you're right A lot of people get that wrong. There's different yours right. Yeah off the top of my head. I think think all the yours or correct. Yeah I didn't look at that so I'm guessing that they are and I know a lot of people probably sitting there going. I ever bizos right. NOPE nope that's like the one of the number one pet peeves. I have on facebook when people get their yours wrong so I worked in a small office years ago go foreign faction office. Yeah and I remember. There was a conversation that needed to be had. If that's even correct grammar probably probably not but there was a conversation that took place in a meeting where they addressed the office as a whole probably not to embarrass one or two do people in particular but that was the the exact conversation that they had to pass down. That needed a trickle down to some some of the employees. Your yours are always wrong in in your business letters and your e mails and this that and the other thing and it's a reflection of this the company they you don't know how to you don't know proper grammar bright it's just like when it's there and they're all those like weather and whether those drive me nuts when people get them wrong but join us after the beer break when we discussed math hellofresh America's number one meal Kit get easy seasonal seasonal recipes and premeasured ingredients delivered. Right to your door. All you have to do is cook and enjoy breakout of your dinner with hellofresh Twani. Wani plus seasonal chef curated recipes. Each week there's something for everyone from family recipes to Calorie Smart and Vegetarian and fund menu series series like Hall of fame and Craft Burgers. hellofresh makes cooking delicious meals at home reality regardless of your comfort in the kitchen from step by step recipe disappeasr to premeasured ingredients. You'll have everything that you need to get a wow worthy dinner on the table and just about thirty minutes Selo. Fresh is flexible and fits your the lifestyle at extra meals to your weekly order as well as Yummy. Add on's like garlic bread and cookie dough and easily change your delivery days food preferences and Skip Kipa Week. Whenever you need? hellofresh is a must go to for anybody. That is busy anybody that has a family anybody. That's cooking for one or two. I cannot stress this this enough. The food is super fresh super delicious easy to Cook and prepare and you are going to amaze yourself and wow your friends and family with delicious meals. A captain and I have been subscribers for years and I am now a Ninja full black belt all in the kitchen because of hellofresh. Yeah I felt like my skills in the kitchen have gone up immensely. Since we became subscribers. Get nine free meals with hellofresh by going to HELLOFRESH DOT com slash garage nine and using our Promo code garage nine. That's hellofresh dot com slash garage nine and enter Promo Code Code Garage nine simply safe as my choice for home security as comprehensive professional home security at a fair price and right now is the best time of year a year to get a simplisafe security system my listeners get a free security camera plus a huge discount on your security system simplisafe protects every room door and window with twenty four seven professional monitoring a smart lock and video doorbell defend your front door from porch pirates inside an arsenal all of sensors and cameras. Cover every inch of your home. If there's a break in they can give real time video confirmation to police as it happens so police respond up to three point five times faster plus simply safe makes it easy on you. There's no contract hidden fees or fine print and prices to start at just fifteen dollars a month visit simplisafe dot com slash garage. Get a free camera. Plus simplisafe's holiday savings this offers for a limited the time only and it's ending soon visit simplisafe dot com slash garage today at simplisafe dot com slash garage designed with measurements for millions. Gins of women thirdlove's Bra styles are made to fit your life. They have over eighty bra sizes but know that the only one that matters is yours we love third. Love Love Proud to sponsor third love. My mother and my sister is their favourite sponsor of the show the feedback that we have received from friends and family and listeners across the board hands down they say that third love is there Goto when shopping for their bras the comfort and the quality is top notch. And I've even spoke okay to some ladies at say. They will only shop at third love now that they've tried their fantastic products. This is hands down the most comfortable brawl. You'll own and was straps. It won't slip tags labels and lightweight memory foam cups mold to your shape plus returns and exchanges are free and easy and fact back thanks to thirdlove's perfect fit promise. Every customer has sixty days to wear wash it and put it to the test. And if you don't love it return and third love love will wash it and donate it to a woman in need their love. nosers a perfect Bra for everyone. So right now they're offering my listeners. Fifteen percents off your first order hurt. Go to third love dot com slash garage now to find your perfect fitting Bra and get fifteen percent off your first purchase. That's third love dot com slash garage for fifteen percent off today. All right we are back cheers. Meets and cheers to you captain as I raise a glass of Christmas bomb two thousand in nineteen by the awesome folks at Prairie Artisan Ales this as an imperial style thirteen percent. ABC Garage grade four at a five bottlecaps cheers. Everyone as we continue on to the next portion of Var ransom letter estates. At this time we have your daughter in our possession. She is safe and unharmed. And if you want her to see Nineteen nineteen ninety seven you must follow our instructions to the letter so the writer tells us we have your daughter in our possession. Most people would agree three the shortest way to say something is the best way to state it especially in a ransom letter. A true kidnapper would have said we we have your daughter. The words in our possession are simply understood and unnecessary and really just in those couple of lines. There seems was to be several extra and unnecessary words. Next you will withdraw one hundred eighteen thousand dollars from your count. One one hundred thousand dollars will be in one hundred dollar bills and the remaining eighteen thousand and twenty dollar bills. Make sure that you bring an adequate size attache Shea to the bank the amount of one hundred eighteen thousand dollars this all things considered is a relatively small amount of money based off of the ramseys wealth or perceived wealth and John. Ramsey's company is doing very well. They just did. A billion an annual sales was made public. We discussed the news articles that came out regarding this. John's net worth in nineteen ninety six was in the millions. And wouldn't you agree. A nice round number would be more typical than one hundred eighteen thousand dollars so there should should be a reason why the writer chose one hundred eighteen thousand dollars and even John Ramsey agrees that that number one eighteen gene is could be significant to the killer. Yeah couple things here one if we believe the writer on what they're stating I'm calling you. We have two people that have your daughter so we at least have three individuals so now you have to split that three ways so I we think it was one person now but what I'm saying if we believe all the letter. Yeah where assistant shoe men watching over your daughter. Yeah Yeah Three. Were a minimum three. That makes them out even lower. Everybody's going to get roughly about forty grand What's that GonNa do for you right it? It's not worth the risk of of the amount of prison time that you're signing yourself up four if you get caught right so not a large amount but that again goes back to the idea that were probably dealing with one individual and not to you or again somebody that is falsifying a ransom note to cover up a murder and one thing that's been pointed out many many times over the years years in fact it was pointed out very early on in the investigation and the public's Investigation into the RAMSEYS. Let's say was it the amount it may have been significant because John Ramsey's Christmas bonus our annual bonus for nineteen ninety-six was right around the same dollar amount. There was actually two things one his same dollar amount roughly for the bonus and I wonder if this is also kind of a tip of the hat to asking for this amount because I know you got as a bonus so therefore it will be easy for you to give to me. I know it's available possibly also think it leads people to believe that whoever wrote this. No if it's not covering up inside job that it's it's basically stating I know your bonus you know me brought up by also also think that is kind of smart. I'M GONNA make it seem like were this big organization while actually a small foreign faction but were a group of people group of individuals. And if you just do what we say and give us this amount that we know is pretty small to you. This will be done and over with and I almost think that they picked this amount because they knew it would be available and that possibly because of John's wealth that they'll just go get the money and not contact the authorities right and the interesting thing here too is we. We have Steve Thomas who points out that look. That amount could be important because it could be indicative of his annual. Oh bonus that he received that year like you pointed out if somebody else knows that if somebody that wants to stand to gain some money from this whole situation they know that that money could be readily available rather quickly that this is. This is money that this dude dude can actually get his hands on. We all see people drive. Fancy Cars live in big fancy mansions. That doesn't necessarily mean that they can get a hold of any cash. Asia might be up to Denton up up to date to their eyeballs and have no real cash no real liquid money or whatever to pay. Hey such a ransom stinky hard cash and then you have to think about the banking system hundred and eighteen thousand. For some of. That's a multimillionaire. They can go in there and get that money and one transaction right. If you make the amount to high half a million or Mil- million that's going to take some time mm-hmm again the more time that this person has to process this the more likely they are going to go well We have to to contact authorities And so again it becomes this thing where it's like. Is this a smart amount. Because they're just going to try to get I look. I don't think the money is the main purpose for any of this right. But but saying fluid in the situation right we discuss it but this is some evidence that points to that. Possibly Patsy Ramsey writes the note or John Ramsey your together they constructed this letter better. Yeah Yeah and I think if they wrote this note together that would make some sense also would make some sense on why we have some scratch out mark's right. Oh No don't do that. I mean let's just get into the handwriting analysis. John they kind of ruled out as being the author of that doesn't mean he didn't help her right it But it seems like his handwriting samples. Don't match at all on a scale to one to ten. He's zero doc. But as far as Patsy Ramsey goes she's on the lowest scale of matching handwriting samples. She's on a very low spectrum of that on like a one to ten. She's at like maybe at two but cannot be cleared cannot be clear cannot be ruled out. And what's weird about her to is. It seems like there's speculation that she actually can write with both hands ambidextrous. Yes so it's like That's that's a that's a word I want to put into a ransom note. I can drink beer with both hands right very talented individual. So here's what's weird about the amount to me EH is. This is just like everything else. And I don't know if we mention this last week captain but I know we've talked about this and our personal conversations stations are personal talks about the Jon Benet Ramsey case. Is that even the sources you go to to try to find the truth to try to sift through all the bow Boesch Bullshit Bullshit and just get to the truth started bullshit and the real hard core evidence the problem with that all even the sources even the good ones sounds even people that you and I agree that we respect they all seem to have an ax to grind the the in it. So you don't know if you're getting the one hundred percent honest to gods truth so the public perception for a long time. was that well. It had to be John Ramseyer Patsy Ramsey that wrote the letter it wrote the ransom letter because they would be the only ones that would come up with this random amount of one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars. They would be aware of that because that amount amount was on their brains because of the bonus that he had recently received. Then you have the others the Ramsey supporters that will say you know you would have anybody. There could be several people at his company. That would be aware of that amount. There could be people at his bank. That would be aware of that amount now and the Ramseys were not particularly neat freaks and they've had a lot of guests they always are having guests over to their home there. There are people that could have worked at their home or could have been there as a guest and could have seen this information lying about somewhere in the Ramsey home and came up with that amount so wiles a strong argument for either in my opinion. Yeah and I also question. How braggadocious Patsy Ramsey was and. Is it possible that she was telling people at the Christmas party. All will drink up. You know because John got a big bonus or whatever. I think. That's a possibility as well and and there was a lot of people in that house like you said in all it would take would be somebody tons somebody that told somebody that told somebody but this also also amount goes to and. I don't WanNA overlook this too much Mr Mac I believe his name is there was a guy that was fired. Geoff Merrick yeah a guy that eventually you know John Ramsey said. Hey this is somebody that we should look into. He's making threats and basically his pay was the argument that they had was. You know around this dollar amount So he was looked into because of these threats and because the John could also prove that this dollar amount was pretty much. What they're arguing over so he was looked into his wife was looked into now on the high end of the spectrum? I think we talked about him before. A MERRIMENT MR MERRIMENT which he was? I think tested say I I think patsy Ramsey wrote the note four times of who she was tested four times again the more and more samples that she gives you now. You're not comparing note note. You compare note to four notes. And that's what led us to the bottom of the barrel that she possibly wrote it. This Sky Merriman. He was he actually wrote the note. I believe seven times and they actually put him on the higher spectrum. You know I I on a scale one to ten. He's maybe eight or nine he hit more markers. Yeah if they're looking for nineteen different markers to indicate kate. This is the author of the letter. He's hitting more of those markers than Patsy Ramsey. Yeah by ten times and eventually when they came back and wanted him the right another sample he said look. I have rode enough to fill the library of Congress. If you want me to write anything more come back with handcuffs This no doesn't make a lot of sense at all and this amount doesn't make sense but I know that John Douglas and I believe another F. B. I.. Agent profile owners have looked at this amount and looked at this no and thought this kind of points to a male in their late teens may be early twenties. He's because again because amount would be significant to them. Yeah and younger person but I also think That makes a lot of sense and these guys are experts. I mean maybe not as much as I am but they are experts but I also then question. Is there somebody else that this this is a lot of This is a bigger amount to where hundred in eighteen thousand might not seem like enough of a reason to kidnap kidnap. Somebody but again. I don't think that's the reason I think this is just kind of icing on the cake and again why not pick a smaller amount to get get it done and over with well even one hundred eighteen thousand dollars. That's a whole lot of rolling papers. Yeah so here's the thing I do want to point out Steve Thomas Promise. His book is fantastic. Regardless of you agree with his opinions and theories on the case I highly recommend everybody picked that book up and check it out. There's a lot of information in there. Does he have an axe to grind everybody that we will name. I can't speak for the captain but my belief is everyone the one that we name in this seems to have an ax to grind. But I think is ego. He states well. But I believe with Steve Thomas he he he firmly believes he's right. He has some things that to him. Point out to him that he is right and he's just he's trying to push us out to the public and say look. This is what I believe happened and why so. I'm fine. With with hearing his opinion one thing he states about this one hundred eighteen thousand dollar dollar amount. This is one thing that is. I've not seen it reported anywhere else so I want to make sure I bring it up here before we move on. He states the there was some notes that he found in John. Ramsey's personal. I don't know if it was a journal or personal notes that John Ramsey made aide about his personal finances and the number one hundred. Eighteen thousand was significant as it was referenced within those notes now I don't know if that was liabilities or liquid or what but it was it was significant according to Steve Thomas in those notes and so he's pointing running out. Forget about the bonus because a lot of people could have known about that. This could be a number that SIG significant to John Because of his personal financial santeuil notes that we found in his office. That's interesting but then we also have a few other interesting takes on this one thing. That's been pointed out many many many times and I just have such a big issue with this whole that. Look this case. This investigation is salacious enough without coming up with Halloween stories to add on top of it. But there's always been the speculation Out there throughout the years that all one hundred eighteen is significant because it references psalm. One eighteen from the Bible and the Family Bible inside the Ramsey home was turned to psalm. One eighteen which discusses child sacrifice in the Ramsey's are satanists right. Sorry that that just doesn't make any damn sense. It doesn't add up number one number two point hold on if you got sacrificed warner kids I mean. Don't you pick the ugly one. I don't know the I don't know the first thing about child sacrifice or the or sacrificing my own child but what I will point out is is the law enforcement stated first of all. The Family Bible was not turned to some one eighteen. That never happened. They never found that. To be the case it wasn't marked. It wasn't bookmarked Psalm. One eighteen doesn't seem to hold any significance. To this case for the Ramseys on top of that read the Bible Psalm. One eighteen doesn't discuss child sacrifice. So it's just it's just a theory. That's all kinds of wrong. It's interesting it would make like for a good movie. If you're put together good horror flick that would be something of interest but it doesn't seem to mean anything now. I like what John Douglas States about the amount of one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars. He states that you know that if you were to convert that money to another currency Douglas Douglas points out that. At the time Nineteen ninety-six one hundred eighteen thousand dollars. Roughly translates to a million pesos. See so either either pointing out again as a little wink wink hint situation that this could be a foreign entity or a foreign person or he also states. You know it could be somebody that was younger and looking to flee the area after receiving the money and and hide out Mexico. Yeah so it's interesting that there are several different reasons for the possibility of this this odd amount and again John Ramsey himself agrees is that the the number is probably significant to the killer. Now the phrase I actually I should say this captain just before moving on also like other things with this case it could have no significance at all. It could just be one of those weird things. That's the amount that some crazy sicko go on the spot came up with and that's all you know and that's all it means now. It's totally a coincidence. Then we have the phrase your account in the letter. This is interesting. The author could have just said the bank. You know you get the money from the bank right and I'm not your account. Also this is implying that the kidnapper knows that. There's that dollar amount at least in John Ramsey's account then. If patsy Ramsey was the author then we can see how and targeting the note toward her husband she would use the phrase your account versus my account. Right make you know. Make sure that you bring inadequate size attache to the bank. Most kidnappers are not going going to remind you to bring an adequate size case to hold the money. Plus this has got to be a rather uncommon word I can. I can think of only a handful of times other than the Ramsey case where I have even heard the word attache us or seen it on a piece of paper her. Yup I again this to me points. I mean we we gotta look intelligence level and I would say that this individual writing the note whether it's Patsy Patsy or somebody else we know. Patsy has a higher education. I if it's not patsy at somebody else with higher education because I just don't think that ah they would even try to use that word then. The suggestion that you be well rested. I'm surprised they didn't right. EAT OATMEAL for breakfast. You're going to need your strength. It the kidnapper. Frankly doesn't give a shit if you're well rested right or not you know doesn't care about your feelings. Feelings are about your your health your physical well being. They want their money. But again this could be immaturity. This could be somebody quoting dumb shit from a moon addressing. This could be this could be patsy not understanding how to be a as aggressive verbs. Maybe as she should or this could be somebody. That's actually close to the Ramsey family. that it this is like A. You're writing seen too much. You're giving too much away and and I think a lot of people believe that little tells like this point to that it's somebody that knows the family. The word attache was written with an accent place over the letter e most people in the US do not use this special character actor. It may have been used because the writer wanted the authorities to believe Jon Benet was kidnapped by a foreign faction right the rider. May they have used it because he or she is educated. The other thing we have to make take into consideration is that Jon Benet. His name was written with an accent. Patsy Ramsey was accustomed to using the accent when writing her daughter's name. Yes she all. She wanted her daughters author's name to sound French right. So you will withdraw one hundred eighteen thousand dollars from your account. One hundred thousand will be in one hundred dollar bills and the remaining remaining eighteen thousand and twenty dollar bills. Make sure that you bring an adequate size attache to the bank. When you get home you will put the money in a brown paper bag? I will call you between eight and ten. Am Tomorrow to instruct you on delivery. The delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested. If we monitor you getting earning the money early. We might call you early to arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence an earlier pickup of your daughter. Note the author third row delivery of your daughter if you see this on if you go and look up the actual paper right. Yeah the author wrote delivery of your daughter crossed crossed out delivery and wrote pick up of your daughter so it reads mistakes and all we might call you early to arrange range and earlier delivery of the money and Hanson earlier delivery pickup of your daughter. The writer started to say that upon receiving the money he or they would deliver Jon Benet to the parents then realizing that a kidnapper would not deliver the hostage right but would tell the family family where she could be found therefore he changed it to pick up its Alpha that a a well thought out kidnapper would make this mistake. It's a strong wrong indication that the the writer was not an experienced criminal. Yeah which makes this case even more baffling because that no oh makes a lot more sense if if it's patsy writing the note and just really bad at writing a ransom note to cover it up and this is one the points where she goes Enhance Right She was kind of commonly known to use that phrase and I believe even burke uses that phrase when he when he's questioned by authorities but again is immaturity as this this somebody that's just trying to throw people off the set but also we might do this earlier instead of the call. I wonder if you're viewing Patsy as the author is this Setting up for them to change changed planes on the police if they have to. But I also think that depending on when you wrote this no and in what manner you did this this would be kind of a weird thing to kind of come up with off the top of your head yeah. Let's there's a lot to really dive into in this couple sentences sentences I believe so i. The word monitor implies a continual surveillance. This is further emphasized when the writer states you you and your family are under constant constant. Scrutiny the kidnapper would have US believe they are continually watching the Ramsey family which is very highly l. e. unlikely one but two goes back to that line of if we if we see you getting the money earlier we're going going to we'll make earlier arrangements to return your daughter right. A kind of. It's kind of underlining that yeah we are watching you and we will know when you go to get at the money the word hence as you pointed out is incredibly interesting. It's not a common word. The word hence is a former way of of saying therefore the rider starts out. The ransom note misspelling words giving the appearance that they are uneducated however his or their educational level begins to show when they use words such as hence we see the same writing style in the Ramsey's Christmas this message on December Fourteenth Nineteen Ninety seven the first United Methodist Church in Boulder Colorado held a memorial service for Jon Benet in the program. There was a message a Christmas message from the Ramsey family. This message was also posted on the Ramsey families website. In the message we find the statement had there been no birth of Christ there would be no hope of eternal life and hence no hope of of ever being with our loved ones again. Yeah it's suspicious but if there's also a enhance and their Christmas letter maybe it's again somebody that God that Christmas letter but this is the year after she was killed now but didn't say that there was and there was a in the original Chris- uh-huh Christmas letter that people would have gotten nineteen ninety-six as there are no enhance and that one I would have to go back and review that. I don't believe that there is is a and hence but there this this fact is from their December fourteenth nineteen ninety seven. Messages is memorial to Jon. benet right so that's very suspicious towards patsy Ramsey but if again like I said Burke a couple times I am says enhance and his. I guess you can call interrogation tapes questioning tapes. Is it just somebody. That's close to the family and knows that enhances something that Patsy Ramsey uses so therefore I I use it and my letter not so much suspicious towards Patsy patsy Ramsey but more of a clue that hey I know you were close you you WanNa hear one sad thing you. You mentioned their Christmas slender. And I I forgot about this. There's so many things involved in this case so many details involved in this case and regarding their Christmas letter that we we discussed last week that they sent out to their friends and family. Yeah they send it out so late in December. I believe I've heard the statement that everyone but just for the sake of being fair and not having that in my notes specifically I will stay the that that statement was most of the people receiving most of the recipients of that letter you're received it on December twenty sixth the same day that they had to tell friends and family. That Jon Benet was killed right. So just what a sad sad thing for friends and family. You get this happy cheery message about the Ramsey family and then find out that same day. The little girl that you read about in their Christmas message has been killed. Yeah also in these statements in this letter we have an unnecessary the word over any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate execution of your daughter you also be denied her remains for for proper burial. The two gentlemen watching over your daughter unnecessary words are words that can be taken out of a sentence taken out his letter completely. Lately in the sentence still makes sense. The rider could have stated the two gentlemen watching your daughter. Extra words give us extra information. What is the the difference between watching over someone and watching someone? According to statement analysis dot Com they say the best example is in reference to God. If someone were to say that God is watching over me then you have God keeping his distance he sees the person here she. I don't WanNa get into to that argument here. She sees the person but also sees the entire world at the same time. God can see the person because they are apart of the world while God is watching over that person they are also watching over others. The word over means God is spreading spreading his watchful eye upon the earth. Now if someone were to write or to say God is watching you it becomes more personal. It's a focused attention right. Another example would be if a friend asks you to watch over his house while he was out of town and this case he probably wants you to stop by every once in a while and make sure everything is okay. Maybe you'll pick up the mail. Water the plants. Whatever however if he asked you to watch his house he probably wants you to house it to stay there right? You want you to be there where you can keep a close eye on things. So on December twenty six. I think something else that we should point out is. This would have been Thursday so yes people are off work normally on Christmas. But there's a lot of people that go back to work on that Thursday so if it's not written by Patsy Ramsey I believe I would have to be written by somebody that knew that they had time to do this that that day possibly somebody that doesn't have a job or or is off work which could be a lot of people apple But I think it's important to point out. Oh Santa Claus is spent the whole time working just before that so I'm sure he is often often resting on that day. Statement analysis goes on while we're talking about words that are unnecessary. They go onto ad in a kidnapping. The kidnappers should be watching the abductee meaning. The word watching is also unnecessary. It would be understood. They will want to keep a close eye on her. They they want to make sure she does not escape or alert. Someone that she needs help they will want to make sure she doesn't harm herself. If her being alive live is dependent upon them receiving the ransom when the writer of the ransom note said they were watching over. Jon Benet the writer was telling us they were not keeping a close eye on her. There are only two reasons why you would not closely watch your hostage. One if you knew for certain certain she was all right and could not escape or two if you knew she was dead since dead body isn't going anywhere it it is something you watch over not keep a close eye on right. So let's be clear about this if it's Patsy Ramsey or somebody in the Ramsey household household then we know that Johnny is dead and so some of this stuff points to that brain My issue as always been the person it's an intruder they had time. So why wouldn't you write the note beforehand. If the goal was to take Jon Benet at the House the whole kidnapping suggests be a ruse. They maybe they even want money. They just are going to use this as a ruse to give them more time right watching over and all that stuff might not make any sense I to me it's less likely that the intruder ruder takes her to the basement. Kills her on purpose or on accident and then decides to write a note. My gut feeling says if it's an intruder the note was written before the death of job name and it's just immaturity Nana season criminal. Not a you know but I also think a lot of the stuff is leading to somebody with them. These education decent ability to who right I believe the person is giving too many clues on their close to the family and again. I don't know if the the dollar amount matters at all I WANNA stay on this for a little bit because I personally do not believe that the what statement analysis dot Com is stating here here in its simplest form that based on the language used in the letter. It appears that the writer already knew that Jon Benet was dead when writing the ransom ransom. Note right I don't really firmly agree with that and I think that when they say that they are trying to indicate that that means that it has to be patsy and John or Patsy by herself writing this letter already knowing that the daughter is dead. Right I I don't believe that. So much but staying staying on this idea of additional words or unnecessary words I go back to the we are a small foreign faction. We are a group group of individuals. The men watching over your daughter. This is a group watching over. Could actually apply the watching over your. Your daughter could make sense as we can't assume we know everything that the kidnapper has planned regardless of the long letter left on the spiral staircase. This watching over could be intended to imply. Simply the men took your daughter. I am the mastermind of this operation. And I'm leaving the ransom. No after after the fact they are elsewhere watching over your daughter the two men watching over your daughter do not particularly like you when we look at a copy of the ransom letter we find the writer originally wrote do particularly like you. The word not was written above the space between the words do and particularly align was then drawn indicating that the word not should be inserted between these words all right then we have of any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate execution of your daughter you will also be denied. Her remains for proper burial. The two gentlemen and I'm watching over your daughter do not particularly like you so advise you not to provoke them speaking to anyone about your situation such as police FBI et Cetera. Tre will result in your daughter being beheaded saying that Jon Benet will be beheaded is very unusual. Statement Analysis says in the United States. We generally do not talk about beheading people. This was put in the no in their opinion to make it look like a foreign faction was being being behind this kidnapping right now for me captain. This is the line that I have always questioned the most. Let's say Jon Benet died in in some kind of accident and then the parents covered it up. which is a very popular theory so they covered up and then write this ransom letter? They would still still be very upset about the death of their small child. They would still be grieving parents in a way. I can't I have a very it. Difficult time. Believing that parents for any reason would reference the beheading of their own child right. It's not not necessarily to throw that in that note to cover up an accidental death or something else your small foreign faction in the beheading makes me think and the season season right. Tis The season for one of the best Christmas movies of all time. And if you don't think it's a Christmas movie you're just wrong diehard makes me. I think that somebody watched die hard too much and went out. Yeah Foreign Faction You know be heading. This is the terms that they would use bright. If we catch you talking to a stray dog she dies. If you alert bank authorities. She dies if the money is in any way marked or tampered with. She dies as you will be scanned for electronic devices and if any are found she dies four times the writer uses the phrase. She dies if Jon uh-huh was still alive. The writer should have been speaking in the future. Tense she will die. This is a strong indication that the re the writer again knows that Jon Benet was dead at the time. This is again that same website kind of pointing out to the that we could have a cover up here by the the parents yet again. The cover-up makes more sense than but as far as the she dies. Okay while then she they would say well she will die die. This could be something going. Well that's this would sound more like a terrorist would talk. That's right she dies and and then after this she dies this this is this would be the terrorist or the threat level being turned up. Crank it up to eleven right scare the hell out of the out of the parents now. I really liked this portion that I found here it states. There are three times when the writer use an exclamation point exclamation points as we all know are used to add emphasis to the statement. Listen carefully this has an exclamation point and talking about killing Johnny. The writer does not use any exclamation points. Four Times the writer wrote sheet is we would expect this to be a point of emphasis in the letter but did not use them. When talking about killing Jon Benet this too may indicate indicate? The Jon Benet was already dead in the author. Knew this at this time. There are can you. You've been kind of hinting at this all day long here there. There are several movie references or close to quotes found within this ransom. Letter in the movie. Dirty Harry Inspector Harry Callahan Clint Eastwood. I Love Clint Eastwood. Is Looking for Scorpio. A man who kidnapped a little girl when talking to Scorpio on the phone several times time. Scorpio tells inspector Callahan. If he does not follow his orders the girl dies as opposed to saying the girl will die in the movie. The girl was was already dead in the ransom note. Jon Benet was already dead another very interesting thing. Is the letter only names John Ramsey by name. No one else I it's Mr Ramsey and then simply John. The note is addressed to Mr Ramsey however towards the end of the letter Mr Ramsey becomes John ongoing have a practice now at some point. Yes where it's It's addressed to both of to them so in the believed or what is called the Rough draft or the first draft often referred to as the practice note practice letter they find in the same note pad. It's believed that. Did this. Ransom letter came from the same note pad that they later found At the top of a page somebody wrote Mr and MRS I. It looks like I because what the the authorities authorities state is it. That is the down stroke for a capital are that the intention was for to be Mr and Mrs Ramsay Z.. And then before even completing the capital are the author change their mind and then decided to address the letter simply to Mr Mr Ramsey just to John Right which look this is a pad that the this drives me nuts because it's like the housekeeper could I said I'm going to write a note real quick to Mr and Mrs Ramsay or anybody else that worked at the house could set down so yes they believe it's possibly at practice. No but there's also other explanations or other things that you can speculate that is that there was no practice. I know we don't have anybody to claim that that that little letter right there. You know the Mr Mrs I right. I think if somebody the worst claim that it would be easy more easy to dismiss. But because we don't have that may appear to most that a possible practice letter nobody's saying definitively that it was right but there is evidence to certainly point that it could be you and your family are under constant since scrutiny as well as the authorities. Don't try to grow a brain John. You're not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult. Don't underestimate a US. John used that good southern common sense of yours. It is up to you now. John Again this pointing I think to somebody. That's closer sir to the family then the small foreign faction but also it's simply input point towards Patsy Ramsey. Well Yeah Yeah I mean. This is an indicator that the the author of the letter has some general knowledge of John. It's it same as the the dollar amount right. It's the same as knowing that he would be able to pay this amount. Use that good southern sense of yours that good southern common sense of knowing that he's from Elena China right and then addressing him as John. I'll tell you what though for all the reasons that many people point out that the letter itself shows no level of criminal sophistication. I WANNA point to one sentence that I believe shows a good deal of understanding and criminal sophistication regarding getting the ransom in that is. Don't try to grow brain John. And we know that that's reference reference probably from a movie from from speed where he says. don't grow brain. I'm on top of. You're says something like that and that that's a that's an the individual that's looking to collect a ransom in the movie but this line right here can you are not the only fat cat around. So don't think that killing will be difficult that to me show. Some criminal sophistication right there. That to me is the person who's demanding the ransom to say you know what on top of that don't deviate from these things because there's a lot of people to say. Well you don't pay a ransom because you're no right away that the killer the abductor will not kill the abducted person the abductee because if they do kill then the likelihood of getting the ransom goes down significantly. They've not they've not upheld their end of the bargain every this line because they're saying don't deviate from us because guess what we don't care we will kill your daughter and then we will take somebody else's kid and we'll give them a ransom and somebody will pay US eventually so don't try to outsmart here. Just be this is a very short way of saying. Don't try to outsmart us here. Just do the right thing and pay us Because we'll do this again. We're not we're not worried about giving you your daughter back. We're not worried about losing out on the ransom because we because you screw up and we have to kill her while so you have one line that we believe is coming from dirty Harry but you say that there's a kidnapping there so that's interesting and then the fact that there's another line that we go that might be from speed and there's a ransom there. I wonder if we're missing other lines from movies. He's well and dirty Harry. There's a line if we catch you talking to a stray dog. She dies Well sorry that's from the the ransom letter but it sounds. Sounds like from dirty Harry if we if you talked to anyone even if it's a Pekinese on a lamppost bringing on a lamp post host. The Girl Dies Dad's from dirty Harry. Are we missing some other references to movies and to me. That's a again. I find it hard to think that John and Patsy. Their daughter is the accidental death for and they're trying to cover ever up for their son. This is their child doesn't have to be cover up for their sun. Though there's anybody could give the accidental death but right right right you're right but what I'm saying is this is our beloved daughter. This is I love somebody. Somebody said Well it even. If they didn't care about their daughter they would they would have been upset about their investment who who makes those claims towards parents there is no oh evidence that John and Pats Patsy were horrible Satan worshippers and didn't give a shit about their little daughter so if there's there there was an accidental death whoever's responsible at the end of the day we have a dead six year old daughter so I think for them to sit. Sit around and come up with this letter to me. It's cutesy. Oh we'll throw in that line about what you know. What dirty Harry say? Oh yes say something like that. What was that movie a woes at line speed? Yes say something like that. It's too cutesy That their six year roll daughter died. And and in this case. For whatever reason it's like oh well the little bit of money that doesn't make monsters. She spent a lot a lot of time with her daughter. No matter what you think that is you know and I am also so sick and tired of people on well. They set her up and they put her in a position. -sition where there's all these pedophile calls and and so really even if they didn't kill her if they're not covering up an accidental death that they really brought this upon their daughter. I'll give me a break. Your kids ain't safe anywhere. I have friends that have been molested by teachers. Counselors boy scout leaders bus drivers soccer coaches priest pedophile are everywhere. So it's the the claims that we can make when there's no evidence beforehand or afterwards of them being horrible militias people. It's just it doesn't make a lot of sense to me like I said it's too cutesy. I'll try to throw in some movie quotes. There's no evidence of them being horrible militias people people beforehand either so this to me is the most interesting portion of the letter and actually it's what is not in the letter patsy is is not named Jon. Benet is not named but his referenced as your daughter or she brian. This is interesting. Because what if it's it's possible that the person that wrote the letter did not know the little girl's name or at the very least did not know how to spell l.. Jon Benet. That's not common name. I can't think of anybody else that that shares that name right. Is it possible that they avoided that name because they didn't know how to spell it also. Could the intruder have only known John Ramsey's name. Yeah it's a difficult one because because you think you know with intruder theory a lot of people go this. This person must've been obsessed with this little girl if you're obsessed with her when he you know how to spell her name and also if you wrote the note beforehand and then brought it with you or or wrote a note beforehand and brought that with you and then copied it down and Europe Sas Sass with her. Why when you put her name but again? Maybe there's all these little tells that if it's intruder that they know the family well right but maybe that was there. I actually disagree with that. I think that the only indicators that we have is that the intruder may know John. Well again. Pointing out no Pazzi. No Jon Benet all the references that that would indicate that they know of the family. And maybe you're just using family in a loose term there right but it's all towards John Mr Ramsey John we respect your business business We know that you're wealthy. One hundred eighteen thousand dollars us that good southern sense of yours right all John and and there are theories out there intruder theories that person's believed that the intruder yeah. Did they do some horrible things to Jon Benet. Yeah they killed her. But the the the intent was to was to harm John Ramsey right be on emotional level or whatever not on a physical level oh but that was the motivating factor for the death for the murder or the abduction of this. Little girl was to heart and possibly destroy John Ramsey that the the killer or the abductor hat was seeking revenge against him or was or sought to destroy this man. Yeah it makes sense to just focuses on John if you're if the writers patsy because what would make you think that you should focus on yourself right so that's where I I think people go This had to be patsies doing. And here's the thing too and I'm glad you point that out because that's something that I think. Most people kind of skip over when they look at this case here so many people people go. Oh it was the parents or it had to be the parents. You can run different scenarios in your head where it doesn't have to be the parents it could be a parent aren't right. It could have been one or the other. It doesn't have to be a united front of of the two right because you killed covered up in then it's the two of them against the world going forward bright because what's interesting in this case. Is You have a lot of people that think patsy was up all night long long and that her husband he took a sleeping aid so he passed out. And what if all this stuff happen and now she is responsible more. She feels that she's responsible and she doesn't think that John will understand so that she has to cover this all up on her own. It's possible hole but I also think when I think about the intruder theory is that maybe this person had a affection for Patsy as well and that that's why they didn't put her in the letter they didn't name her you. I mean like if I'm GonNa Talk Trash to somebody I'll talk. We'll talk okay. A little stick to John. But I wouldn't do that to Patsy so I'm not going to do then the letter when you say that this individual would have it out for John Right Right The evidence against that is if you have more hatred towards somebody. You're not going to be so polite. You'RE GONNA YOU'RE GONNA spew a lot more venom and that doesn't happen. You don't think you're the only fat cat around. Don't wait so you're you're kind of giving them a compliment just in that statement you'd think a lot more of like John Use a piece of Shit and you're GonNa pay us and you know you're a horrible person and your and Your Business Sucks. You know what I mean like. But they're the two complementary to him so I I doubt the hatred then we have the weird ending of the letter. They're the victory S. B. T. C. S. BTC. It appears there's no period after the letter C.. Just after the other three letters others people have for so many years have wondered what could S. b. t. c. mean that has always been one of the most popular questions in this case. One of the most popular popular theories is that it stands for Subic Bay Training Center right. Subic Bay is a bay. On the west coast of the island island of Luzon in the Philippines about one hundred kilometers northwest of Moulana Bay and extension of the South China Sea it shores where formerly the site of a major United States Navy facility named US Naval Base Subic Bay which is now the location of an industrial and commercial area known as the Subic Bay. Freeport on under the Subic Bay Metropolitan Authority. We point this out because many people have suggested that John Ramsey who was stationed as Subic Bay may hey have come up with this S. B. T. C. because it means Subic Bay training center however in the description that we just gave you it clearly tells you that there is no entity that exists with that name right. Subic Bay Training Center. That's not what that place was called and and as far as I could find there is no training facility station there. Nobody would have any reason to refer to the United States Navy Navy facility named U S Naval Base. Subic Bay as Subic Bay Training Center. Another possibility captain is the S. BTC could mean saved by the cross which could mean a number of different things statement. Analysis says this is because of the ramseys professed faith in God and because the word victory precedes the initials S. BTC as all Christians know is through Christ's sacrifice on on the cross that we have victory over death. The ramseys were religious and attended church. As we mentioned in the timeline. Patsy beat cancer answer to and it has also been suggested that saved by the cross is a reference to patsies victory over cancer as BTC could could would have meaning to the perpetrator or to the perpetrators relationship to the RAMSEYS. Org Jon Benet or what is probably the most likely situation relation is that it means nothing at all that it has no real relevance to the case at all I believe Patsy at one point when asked. SBA could mean she said son of a bitch. Tom Carter which was someone the family knew but that of course it just seems like like Kooky Talk. I mean. It's just yeah. She had no filter really right. Well you know I do like that about her. There's a certain charm charm. John has too much filter right then. PATSY has no filter. Yeah it's Son of a Bitch Tom Card while there is a guy I that they look into and one of the new documentaries where he would sign his name he had like aliases And and the t would stand for truth so it was his alias but he would put truth in there but again they once you do more research search you go while this guy was connected to Colorado. But he couldn't have been there at the time so I think everybody's grabbing at straws trawls for this one I questioned the letters themselves so S. B. T. C.. That's what we're assuming is because again uh I think one of the things that really points to the fact that patsy didn't write this no because if she's calling nine one one this would have been not not much after she already wrote the note. Bright it could have been minutes could have been hours by. They asked her who wrote the know. Now who's at from and you almost here you have to. You almost hear the thinking though wheels turning and she asked to go to the back and say. SP T. C.. Then she reads up victory If she wrote this now she would. Yeah your your your knee jerk. Reaction would be to say victories. BTC or just simply SBC. Yeah without a pause who are the no. SBC Okay. Well more likely that she wrote the note but when she has a search through it because she claims she didn't even read the whole note She got to the point where you have my daughter. Oh Shit Shit I gotta go check on my daughter. Oh Shit John John Yeah come help me all we you know John Maybe reads the no. Maybe doesn't maybe we get the same part. We got a call the police and then at some point. You're going how shit now we call the police. But they're telling us not to call the police but again she reads up and she says as BTC victory If she wrote the now you said start with victory as BTC or say s BTC quicker. I questioned the letters and this is what I mean by Patsy. Ramsey is the one that determined this is S. BTC This is pretty sloppy handwriting. I don't know if that tea is a tea. Or if it was supposed to be possibly a Jay Jay because because if you look at every other T- son of a bitch John Carter some of his term if you look at every other t the bottom swoosh Sean t goes out to the right and when you look at this t- it almost looks like there's a dot Well it is a felt tip pen. Okay so I do WanNa throw this in there. According to Steve Thomas they had verification from the Secret Service United States secret service that one of the felt tip pens in the little. You know everybody's got their little pen pencil holder that contains multiple pens ends and pencils that that pen and Pencil holder contained a felt pen that authored the letter. According to Steve Thomas and according to what he states is proof from the secret service said they were able to determine that the the die or the ink doc I guess would be better to say was Was a perfect match for one particular pen in that that holder. Why point that out felt tip pen because if you anybody that's use them often knows if you just kind of hesitate to pick up your pen it will leave? What looks to be a dot at the bottom of a letter or at the at the end of a stroke that you just finished? Yeah which I get but again and I think this is more deliberate and the reason why is because look at every you when they see why. Oh you right at the bottom of the why. What happens with their pin actually goes to the right look at a hundred percent when they make the percent sign? Where does the pain go naturally? Actually t to the right to see that. What was the last one you just stated? I'm I'm reviewing the US so if you look at the US. The bottom of the Y.. Always starts curving to the right even on the on the bottom of the DS. If you look at the word you when you say you I thought you meant the letter U Yeah you're right with the the Y.. At the start of the word you and at the end of the word victory you can see right here on page three. Yeah it it goes to the right a little bit. Yeah and then if you look at one hundred percent are the bottom of the percent sign it goes to the to the right and that happens over and over almost every y goes down into the right Even even the FS and you're right on the day goes to the left on well on the T.. It goes to the left making it impossible j yes just but only on the S. T. C.. So I think it's possible that the person started hurrying and through this a little bit more and that is sp J. C.. Right could be. Yeah and could this. So some of 'em bitch Jesus crisis how it is now no it could mean anything again it could mean nothing at all could be here. Look look the truth of the matter at the end of the day is the ransom. No is a farce. However you want to spin it whoever you believe to be involved it's a fake meaning? Whoever wrote it never intended to receive any ransom? I believe that one hundred percent okay. So what you're saying is if Israel by somebody in the family. They're covering up. They're make they're making it look like it's something else and upper an accident or they're covering up a murder okay. If it's an intruder it could just be a false. It could be a farce from the beginning. And they're still planning on taking her and that just doesn't work out and then they left the scene and move about their business. I think it very likely that given what we we know of the wine cellar in what we suspect of the body of Jon Benet that if this person or this group had any intention of taking this little girl and removing her from the home that this letter was constructed structed to buy them time meaning win the the thing with the intruder. I'm Kinda with you and I'm not saying that I believe it to be an intruder order but if it were if I were to say yes I believe this was an intruder. That's responsible for the murder of Jonbenet. I believe that the the intruder theory Only works if the letter was written was constructed before the attempted abduction of this girl right and that there was no really true intention to ever return her. There was no true intention to collect on that ransom that this would have been more likely a sexually motivated crime time and the letter was constructed to buy this Sicko some additional time right and that could be for either her any number of purposes or just simply for the purpose of getting away a fleeing the area or distancing themselves from the crime itself. Don't contact police if I if I can do anything to stall law enforcement from the if I can do anything to stall the experts from getting involved then. I'm going to do that because we we all know. If you don't solve this thing in the first forty eight you don't have a suspect. In the first forty eight I seventy two time is the killer time makes it more difficult to solve these cases and this is a particularly complicated one and so I believe if it were even an intruder cruder the idea would be to distance themselves from the investigation to slow the start and progression of that investigation. I I pointed that for several reasons because even if somebody look we we know that she's killed we know that she's killed somewhere in that home and then the body. He is left somewhere in that home. Even if the kill the person killed her had intended to take her for the purpose of a ransom. You you would still remove the body because you could still collect on that ransom. Even though she's dead the persona that she's dead right and even and even if they were even the sentence of denied a proper burial indicates that the author of the letter understands that even the return of a dead body has some value. So I don't really believe that. There was ever any intention of collecting on a ransom and we went through the timeline. I will contact hugh between eight and ten. Am Tomorrow to give you instructions. There was no contact. Nobody ever reached out for any reason at all. I think I think it is also very important to keep in mind. I think one of the smartest things that Steve Thomas added to this case is where he states states that eight to ten. AM is so confusing. Because we don't know what the author means by eight to ten. Am because because this crime we. We're talking this. All went down in the middle of the night if if the doctor attempted the abduction auction after midnight well then eight. Am To ten am tomorrow. Could mean the next day so I think it's all it's all very lost sense. Yeah and again I think I believe that the person if it was an intruder they they wrote it beforehand and either copied their own note and tried to make a couple of corrections to it or whatever. Yeah and that's why we have those as little scribble marks but I think they wrote it beforehand. There's too many cutesy like little references and little things about like Hollywood Hollywood. Not even so much even if you say. They're not quote in any movie. It sounds like stuff that would come from a movie. They could just be quoting things or or not specifically quoting movies but just again grabbing window-dressing the the the comes to mind right when they think of all. What would what a kidnapper who wants a random right by? What do I think a ransom letter should look like? And that's why I think it's what what I I believe and I'll go forward moving forward with this is it. I believe the ransom note is the random letters a complete farce and that either points to it points to motive for me either. It's a cover up an inside job that had to be covered up or it was in fact an intruder and the whole purpose of the ransom letter was constructed in advance and it was constructed to slow the investigation to to delay the start part of the investigation. Maybe the parents don't call nine one one right away because they're scared and they believe the letter they believe. They're going to get their daughter back. That doesn't have to have any indicator whether the author knew in advance that they were going to take the girl or or kill the girl inside. It has no nothing to do that at all. It's just points everything in this letter points to me that nobody had any intention of collecting okay. So crispy colonel if if you had to bet right right now if you had to wager your whole life savings One hundred and eighteen thousand dollars hundred eighteen thousand dollars and you had a wager that against a small foreign faction. Is this coming from mm-hmm inside the Ramsey family. Or is this coming from outside the Ramsey family okay. I would walk up to the window to the the betting window and I would place fifty nine thousand dollars that the author of the letter was an intruder and then I would place my I would wager my remaining fifty nine thousand dollars. That one of the ramseys are both the ramseys. wrote the letter highlight. Are you like that wager right there. Yeah that's a horrible alien sir. I'm going to go if I had to bet it's an intruder. They simply safe. Is My choice for home. Security is comprehensive professional home security at a fair price rights and right now is the best time of year to get simplisafe security system my listeners get a free security camera plus a huge discount. On Your Security System Visit Simplisafe we save dot com slash garage to get a free camera. Plus simplisafe's holiday savings this offer is for a limited time only in its Indian soon visit simplisafe dot com arm slice garage today that simplisafe dot com slash garage introducing the Jeffrey Epstein. I knew a new podcast from CNN hosted by Vicki Award this seven episode series. Takes you behind the scenes to hear a one of a kind account of Epstein an individual. Who's more myth than man Vicky Ward has been reporting on Jeffrey Epstein for almost two decades and takes listeners beyond the headlines to explore who Jeffrey Epstein really was where he got his money and the circumstances surrounding his death subscribed to the Jeffrey Epstein? I knew wherever you get your podcast. Wow what an episode is two hours of us and I'm yeah we want to thank everybody for listening for Toma Friend. Thanks for sharing on social media for everything true crime garage check out true crime garage dot com download the stitcher APP check out our other show off the record on stitcher premium. Do not. Ah Forget to join us back here tomorrow for episode four until then be good. Be Kind and don't let.

John Ramsey Ramsey Patsy Ramsey John writer Jon Benet Ramsey Ramsey Jon Benet Ramsey Detective Thomas John Douglas United States Ramseys Jon Benet Jeffrey Epstein Mr Ramsey colds Patsy Patsy Ramsey family Colorado CNN
JONBENT: Christmas Tragedy

The Killing of Marilyn Monroe

34:01 min | 1 year ago

JONBENT: Christmas Tragedy

"Yup and how old is she. It was in resolving the same here at the ransom. No it it was the infamously desperate call for help that has since been heard around the world in the early morning of December twenty. Sixth Nineteen ninety-six. Patsy Ramsey dialed nine. One one to report the apparent kidnapping verse six year old daughter Jon Benet from their home in an a fluent area of Boulder Colorado. I am honey. They get paid by the end of that day. The ramseys found jonbenet's body in in their own basement. A little girl was dead. This was boulder. Colorado this was a little six year old girl who they had been tortured and murdered and left her home. It was a town that didn't even have a homicide department because they didn't have homicides. It was horrified for twenty three years. The death of six-year-old Jon. benet Ramsey has been the most notorious and heartbreaking unsolved murder in American history history and despite thousands of policemen hours unprecedented public interest and a witch hunt directed at her parents. Still the ultimate question question remains unanswered. Welcome to the killing of Jon. Benet Ramsey the final suspects hosted by me Danielle Robea. I'm patsy reinvasion mother. This is patsy Ramsey talking to the media in nineteen ninety seven. I'm Paul that that anyone would think that Jon or I would be involved in such a hideous heinous Crohn's on that. Let me assure you that I did not kill Jon Benet. I did not have anything to do with it. I Loved That Child Oiled with my of my heart and soul over the next twelve installments. You are going to here. What may be the most exhaustive investigation into Jonbenet's murder in decades led by investigative reporter? Doug Lung Keeney through his decades working this case Doug Long. Genie has become a trusted colleague to some of the most knowledgeable insiders this doug talking to a very unlikely Jon benet expert Britt from North Carolina. She goes by the single name. Jameson so with Louis. List of suspects in our ability to actually collect DNA. We could actually actually move this case along significantly. Could actually have a breaker. What do you think the Han a finite list? Now of Moos best. I suspect they have cleared a couple of equal people. But there's more to be done a lot. We will learn much much more about detective. Smith's suspect spreadsheet in future episodes but before diving into the investigation. We I need to go back to the beginning and the details of of that awful December Twenty six morning twenty three years ago. My name is Cyril Wecht. I'm a physician I specialized in Anatomic clinical and forensic pathology at five thirty. Am on the day. Okay after Christmas Jon. Benet Ramsey's mother Causey Ramsey. I'd gotten up to make breakfast for them. She came down and she saw a piece taper a regular standard size eight and a half by eleven piece of paper She Got To note and said we represent a small foreign faction. That's the way it begins and then it goes on from there and makes a demand of money she patsy Ramsey she rushes up and indeed her daughters not in her bed. She Awakens her husband. They do a quick search they call the Koch Patsy Ramsey's nine one one call. Some of which you heard at the beginning of this episode has been the subject of two decades worth of conjecture and debate. Here's former supervisory deputy United States Marshal. Mark McLeish Patsy Ramsey had called nine one one when she found the ransom note. And so the Nine one offer astor what's going on and then Patsy gave their address so then the second time the operate said what's going on there Ma'am and pass response that we have a kidnapping. Hurry hurry please. Cops come to the House then about six o'clock in the morning. They searched the house and do not find the girl. Komo Robert Whitson and I was on call detective supervisor in one thousand nine hundred ninety six when Jon Benet Ramsey case occurred heard was six o'clock or so in the morning I received a call that there was a kidnapping and so Got Hold a two detectives who responded and then I responded. I went to the police department and met with the night shift supervisor. Her and also started making some phone calls so I didn't get up to the house. It was probably probably around nine o'clock in the morning we're almost from the moment. Boulder police responded to Patsy. Ramsey's nine one one call catastrophic mistakes were made although the case was still kidnapping normal police protocol would dictate that the ramseys house should have been treated as a crime scene as detective Whitson explains. It was not Gwen. I went I mean in the House I actually was a little surprised because there were three or four adults standing there and I asked one of the detectives who are these people and he. He told me that they were friends of the ramseys. At that point one of the mistakes I made was I should have took those people someplace else else. Either to the Police Department or to one of the other neighbor's homes that lived nearby but I should have had them removed from the house at that point. Of course we're working under the assumption that disappeared to be a legitimate kidnapping and also the movie ransom had just come Out A couple of weeks before and there were a lot of similarities as far as the movie ransom with the information we had at that talk. Detective Whitson also remembers both Patsy and John at this stage remaining relatively calm. I met yet with Mr Ramsey. He was very calm and collected. I only talk to Patsy Ramsey for probably a minute or less and I did was teller that we were going to do everything possible to get their daughter back she basically was sitting in a it was on the first level and she was sitting in a chair and you could tell she had been crying detectives and I went up to Jonbenet s bedroom. Just did a real quick cursory look shut the door. Put crime scene tape over that I specifically told Mr Ramsey. Nobody goes in that room. I also asked him for samples of his and Mrs Ramsey's handwriting. It gave me to know pads and I didn't even look at him that at that point we drive around the area to see if there's anybody suspicious or anybody looked like it could possibly be involved folks. I have to tell you that I was told that police officers had searched the house and didn't find anything. Uh with the New Year right around the corner. It's time to set some new goals for yourself and taking care of your mental. Health should be a top priority. Think about it this way you wouldn't hesitate. Hey to go to a doctor for professional care if you had a broken arm. Your mental health deserves the same attention. That's where better help comes in. It's the world's largest counseling service this that matches you with a licensed accredited board-certified therapist with better help. You can schedule weekly video or phone sessions and get timely thoughtful responses from your personal counselor. Never sit on someone else's couch again instead. Get therapy from the comfort of your own living room with better help. You're not tied to the nine nine to five of traditional therapy. You can log into your account any time to message your counselor better. Help's mission is to provide everyone with easy affordable. Private it access to professional counseling. Anytime anywhere get started today our listeners get ten percent off your first month at better help dot com slash Jay. That's better help. H. E. L. P. dot com slash j VR support for this podcast comes from NBC. Last fall on manifest best. The disappearance of flight eight to wait came. TV's biggest mystery. Where does the passengers go for five and a half years? Why had none of them aged a day? Monday January very sixth. Last year's number one new drummer returns with a mind blowing new season. The passengers of Eight to eight have delayed their death but time is running out. Can they solve the mystery. It also save the passengers get up to speed for the amazing new season of manifest with manifest the official. Podcast your deep dive into all things manifest. I show Creator Jeff. Rake and his team of writers. Have the answers to the biggest questions from season. One plus behind the scenes Intel on. What's to come? Check out manifest the official show podcast. Listen or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And don't miss the return of manifest Monday January sixth on NBC As detectives were about to find out that initial search had been anything but satisfactory even as the house filled with with everyone from police to friends of the family. The broken body of little jonbenet was lying behind a door in the basement. Here's Mark McLeish mm-hmm. It is little bit unusual allies sought. They're dealing with a kidnapping because you had a ransom. No but you absolutely want to search the house which they did but it was just a cursory search search every room obviously because it in this governor body. The detective asked John Ramsey to look around. Sif Anything was missing and so he took her friend. They start starred in the basement. I guess starting to basement worked away up. But that's when John Ramsey he went into a room there was a larger room called the train room. Had a the train tracks. Set up an air then which I think was a wine cellar? That wasn't being used as a wine. Cellar was a room that had no windows Nassar John Ramsey founder Johnny's body body. Our team has spoken exclusively to John Ramsey about that terrible morning well it was it was at first reliefs beliefs. I got founder. It was just a flood of thankfulness. And then I pretty quickly realized Komo alive I screen Care Durham sears. Not An you know. Of course I was criticized for disturbing the crime seat. What would you new? Oh it's my daughter. I'm not going to touch her. 'cause I don't want to disturb. The crime scene at is insane that would have been suspicion. Shanna kid big time and and yet the police that was bizarre media criticized me for disturbing the crime scene is just insane local news reporter. Paula Woodward covered the case. From the START I was an investigative reporter for twenty five to thirty years at Ku Assay ATV discovered the body which was fought was so strange. Boulder Police Department really miss him because they just didn't know how to do it they left asked after ascertaining that they didn't think she was in the house. They did a cursory search and her father was told by the one detective in the House. A Don't you look around stupid things out of place which is so strange so he went to the basement with a friend and he found her body and it was just in talking with him. What a terrible thing as apparent defined your order channeled? Spotty this is detective Robert Whitson then When the call came in that they had found Jonbenet's body I another detective drove to the Ramsey's house and the house was secured women? I walked in the front door. People were standing immediately really inside the door. There's like a foyer area on the first level I remember Mrs Ramsay was holding a Jon Benet. There's like a mother's Wail. She's just crying profusely when he asked the minister he would ask her to put Jon Benet down. She laid the body down. I remember Them having to assist her into the other room she was basically basically just so distraught. Lamp was hard for her to walk on her own power. If discovering the body of your six Israel child isn't terrible enough. The horror was compounded by the sickening injuries. Jon Benet had sustained forensic pathologist Cyril Wecht and former sheriff's investigator Johnson Augustyn tacos through those injuries. In what may for some listeners be upsetting detail. Findings are autopsy. Ed revealed a rope around the neck and one into that rope was tied to a loop around the freight wrist. There was A factor on the top of the skull About seven eight inches in length frontal to accept that means from the front of his Co. forehead region and to the rear part of the skull there were two stun-gun marks found on her face and on her back of which both injuries were very similar. Further pathological findings noted by the coroner included chronic chronic inflammation of the lining of the vaginal wall called the vegetable Muchota very delicate lining there where some wood fibers that were found inside her vaginal bulb indicating that she had been sexually assaulted. So when you put just that piece together somebody but he hit stun gun her. Somebody had sexually assaulted her. Somebody had strangled her and then somebody subsequently had do some blunt object to strike her ahead. Cracking those to excel lobes boulder. Police were no longer dealing with kidnapping. They were dealing with the sexual rule assault torture and murder of an innocent six year old girl and from the start. It seems detectives in this sleepy peaceful town or completely -pletely unable to cope. No one of the investigators have any homicide experience. Everyone on that case probably seven or eight of them initially none of them had homicide experience and logic would dictate to you need somebody with home. Shot experience inhabit as John Saint Augustine. Who would later investigate the case alongside detective loose Smith Explains Doug Lung Guinea many of the later problems problems and controversies that have dogged the case sprang from the initial blunders made by the Boulder police force? When you're doing an investigation nation? Let's like this where the initial call is a kidnapping. It is crucial that the crime scene in our terms and in the law enforcement profession when we use a term called forensic sterility and what that means is that you try to maintain that crime scene as best you can India event that somebody either loves somethin- Anthony took something and so what happens in this case is that we have a major contamination of the crime scene. Because not only do we not remove the family from the crime scene when the call comes in we actually allow the family to introduce into the crime scene. Their friends their their pastor. Astor is allowed to come into the crime scene so there was never any real security of the crime scene at the onset of this investigation to compound the problem even further further. What happens is that law enforcement asks a potential suspect who should have been separated in place in a car in question to go look for things out of the ordinary that should have been the role of either the investigators? The crime scene techs who would have been processing that scene but instead John Ramsey's the one that then you know provides that contamination that additional contamination of which is why this case twenty three years later a your is still unsolved because of all the screw ups that happen in the onset of this investigation The problems were compounded. When reports of the little girls brutal death reached the media? Suddenly Jon Benet Ramsey was a household name around the world world. Here's local reporter and author of we have your daughter. Paula Woodward by the Monday following her body being found on the prayer Thursday. Stay that Monday. The networks were already involved. It all happened so fast and it was so competitive and all of a sudden boom the networks were there and within a few days we learned that the networks were interested. Her Child Area Patch pictures had been leaked and sold sold to the media photographers. Who took them and it was just out of control chaos here? Was this beautiful. Little Girl in child did it. Paget pitchers and that didn't go over. Well it was immediate. Once the national media was there that it became international. Happen very fast. Little girl murdered. AG- founding are home note left that she was kidnapped but she wasn't she was murdered. There are child Giddy pageant pictures and video and everybody throughout the world world. Is there obviously somebody. One or more people were giving the news media information. Some of it was accurate. Some of it was inaccurate. The media certainly was not at. Its best this murder happened. During the Christmas holidays yes were more juror. Experienced orders are on vacation and so a lot of inexperienced reporters were on the case when the murder first happened and and it continued that way. Huge part of what made the murder so gruesomely fascinating for the press. Were several bizarre details that lay at the heart of the case. A ransom note had been left at the scene. Not just a ransom note but a two and a half page ransom note trended fairly neatly with just strange things in Doug Long Guinea and Jameson. Leave the ransom. Note is still one of the most valuable pieces pieces of evidence. We have Mr Ramsey. Listen carefully we're a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction. We respect your business but not the country it serves at this time. We have your daughter in our possession. She is safe and unharmed. If you WANNA see her nineteen ninety seven you must follow our instructions and to the letter you will withdraw hundred eighteen thousand dollars from your account. A hundred thousand dollars. We'll be in one hundred dollar bills and the remaining eighteen thousand in twenty dollars bills. Make sure you bring in adequate size at Shea to the bank. When you get home you put the money in around paper bag? I will call you between eight and ten. Am Tomorrow instruct. You on delivery. The delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be arrested. If we monitor you getting the money early we mike call you early to range earlier delivery of the money and hence an earlier picked up of your daughter. Any deviation of my instructions will result in immediate execution of your daughter. You also be denied. Her remains for proper Barrio. The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you so advise buys you not provoke them speaking to anyone about your situation such as police FBI etc will result in your daughter being beheaded if we catch you talking to a stray dog. She dies if you're bank authorities. She dies with the money is in any way marked or tampered with she dies. You will be scanned for electric devices. And if any are found she dies you can try to deceive us but be warned that we are familiar with law enforcement countermeasures at tactics. You stand a ninety nine percent chance of killing your daughter if you tried to outsmart US follow our instructions and you stand one hundred the percents chance of getting her back. You and your family are under constant scrutiny as well as the authorities. Don't try to grow a brain John. You're not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult. Don't underestimate us. John News that good southern common sense of yours is up to you now John It's assigned victory s BTC. Yeah it is a desire. No Yeah but David important. nope beach I used to say if the gift left behind. Because it's his brain article. He is the he would sit down and he would write this note in this particular and everything and it was important to Lou renite outward now but things got even stranger when it was found that the ransom note had been written on paper from a notepad inside the house former deputy. US Marshall and statement analysis expert Mark McLeish his poured over the details of that note for over two decades. He explains several other oddities in its language and content the first thing I noticed before even analyzed and a note is that it was very long like two and a half pages long ransom notes are very short. You know we have give daughter. Is that much. Money will not be in contact for this. No as I mentioned went on for two and a half pages contain information. You generally don't sign in a ransom note. It's such as make sure you bring an adequate size attache to the banks town the Ramseys to be rested at stop just as appear in legitimate ransom notes and and then we also have to remember. The note was written on their stationery with their pen in their house. Now most kidnappers right. Durant's note ahead of time and then they bring yeah no wisdom that this person entered their residents while they were out to dinner at night. Sounds and paper. wrote this ransom note and wave them to return no- he looks for a pen and paper in the middle of the night they figures not a problem. These are colleges associated. People have pen and paper. He finds it he starts art charade. A ransom note doesn't like the beginning of it because he knows one day. It'll be a communication of great interest starts again and that's when he races note we represent a small foreign faction. Another strange detail was the amount of money the supposed kidnappers of Jon Benet were demanding for her return. Paula Woodward explains in the ransom. Note the two and a half patriots and note there was a specific demand for money. One hundred hundred eighteen thousand dollars which was just very strange. Very mysterious added to the mystery of this crime. Why would someone asks for one hundred and eighteen eight thousand dollars and initially? The police leaked that John Ramsey had received a bonus that year in data amount which which wasn't true it was close to that amount but not that amount John Ramsey was a millionaire. And here's this ransom. Note asking for the return of Estado for one hundred eighteen thousand dollars. It didn't make sense. It's still doesn't make sense now. Everything a person says has a meaning and there's a reason why they use one hundred eighteen thousand dollars dollars. I mean first of all. It's a very low amount to me. I believe the Ramseys at that time were worth maybe six million dollars so one hundred eighteen thousand dollars very the low amount. We expect him to say a million maybe half also why one hundred eighteen thousand I mean why not just a hundred thousand one hundred sixty thousand. Yes just very very odd odd number frenzy. Pathologist Cyril Wecht outlines the case against the intruder theory this intruder knows how to get it into the house there in Boulder without causing any disturbance. He knows where the little girls bedrooms is. He's able to awaken her. Take her from Maroon without causing any disturbance her nine year old brother. Burke Ramsey is just right next door not awakening him at all. Now get this picture picture. The police palm side detectors at the house looking for the body of this little girl never knew there was a door never knew there was a room but under the intruder theory. We are to believe that shooter having accomplished everything knowing about this back a set of stairs knowing about the back room. He knew all this he took the little girl there and then having had his perverted sexual pleasure with the little girl he decides. He's going to kill her and then he's going to write a ransom of forgot to bring a pen and paper. Didn't even bring the rope the rope as from material right there in the house he forgot Jon. Benet Ramsey's body you. You just wrote a ransom note demanding money. You went to war of his trouble. You had the behavioral strengthen in control to accomplish all of this and the dead of the night so. You're not flustered or hurried. You're doing all of this stuff and now you've written the not manning this money and then you leave you. Don't take the body. Take the body. Put Him in the back of your car. So it's been a sore throat in Ford and awards thrown in a river toward the lake. Do do whatever you want to. Suddenly John and Patsy Ramsey after losing their daughter in the most horrific of circumstances found themselves prime suspect back in her murder John Ramsey patsy Ramsey Burke Ramsey and Jon Benet Ramsey were the only known people in the house in her body was found with homicides wanted the first thing detect Tuesday look at. Who's in the area? Who's near the scene or who's in the home with? That's where it happened. And so they looked at John and Patsy Ramsey but it in my opinion go way out of control in that it seemed that John and Patsy Ramsey were the only ones they were looking at for her daughter's murder. Here's fellow. Detective Johnson Augustyn who outlines just a few the reasons why Lou smit believed intruder killed Jon Benet typically in my experience and I've probably investigated well over over a few hundred death investigations. I would tell you that when you're looking at a murder like his parents typically if the parents are involved either say something. That was an accident accident. They may say something like I struck down but never have I seen in my career. Anything where stun gun strangulation in a blow to the Eh all happened as well as sexual assault they can find no prior application of the row. That was used to strangle Jon Benet. Meaning they found no other rogue in the house matching their wealth that was used to strangle her. The tape that was used to put over her mouth. There was no prior application. That tape found anywhere in Hong either. And why would the parents if they were planning on killing their daughter. Why would they take her from her bedroom? Sexually assaulted or stun-gun stun-gun her twice strangled her and then subsequently striker head and then stage your body in the basement in a cellar an then go write a ransom. No none of that made sense in her twenty three years reporting on in conducting inducting her own investigation into the case. Paula Woodward his come to know John as Father John Ramsey very well. John Ramsey has a very deep faith in spite of everything that has happened to him. His daughter's murder has become his life but he also has made sure sure that he has time in his life for Burke in his two other children John Andrews and Melinda that's very important to him he has remarried worried a wonderful woman after patsy died in the early two thousands shown elise her killer will be found. She doesn't know how he just know when you just know where that is part of his belief of faith and I guess that's the best way I can express listen. I think it's critically important that any possible leads are checked out if someone has the courage and tenacity to do so this this is such an important case because of all the wrong with that anyone who does something to further the investigation on this case should be lighted. It's really important and somebody knows something. One of the big questions in this case is with the family family did not do it to get right. Is it an intruder. Are there other suspects out there. That could have been involved in this. Are there other suspects that need to be looked at absolutely absolutely. Should there be other suspects Dean as collected absolutely and the problem in this case is that law enforcement was so focused on the family that they never allow themselves to truly investigate the facts of this case still today. There are still a number of leads that have never been followed up by law law enforcement next time on the killing of Jon Benet the final suspects eliminating names. There was a person who had committed suicide. And they were looking at that person because he had a stun gun in hand high-tech shoes. It can just after a very forceful message from district attorney. Alex Hunter who said we'll find you and then the next day he's either dead or concurred he would break ins drew windows he would bring duct tape put them he'd have Krikah white cores to type victims hands and feet he used a stun gun worked for sheer company had one case where he attempted rape female her bedroom. Parents were a separate bedroom red room. The killing of Jon Benet the final suspects. Rex is hosted by me. Danielle Romay executive produced by Dylan Howard. And Not sprouts and is a production of water studios and Endeavour Audio Executive -secutive producers also. Include Tom Freestone. Doug Lunn Guinea Susan Bennett James Robertson and Andy Tillett. The series is written by Dominic reporting by Doug. Monteiro the series is mixed and engineered by Sean Kravis and Sam Ada. There is so much more to the story. And you don't WanNa Miss Anything. I can assure sure you subscribe to the killing of Jon. Benet a final suspects wherever you get podcasts. If you have any the information that could help our investigators and the ramseys identify jonbenet's killer. Please help us at tips at justice for Jon. BENET DOT COM

John Ramsey Jon Benet Jon Benet Ramsey Causey Ramsey murder kidnapping Ramseys Jon. benet Ramsey Jon Boulder Paula Woodward Burke Ramsey jonbenet Cyril Wecht Mark McLeish John Detective Whitson Patsy Ramsey
JonBenet Ramsey Episode 3

OWL Once Was Lost Podcast

19:15 min | 2 months ago

JonBenet Ramsey Episode 3

"Turn off low everybody. Welcome to another edition of the owl once was lost podcast. We are the podcasting tool to the once was lost missing persons phone application. She can find on iOS for Apple and Android devices, wherever you get your podcast from just make sure and subscribe and also to download The Missing Persons application make sure and also please hit the five stars for us that way the algorithms can make it much easier for us to be found on Apple podcasts dead. So keep in mind everybody as I say every week over 800,000 children go missing in the us alone. And a lot of these cannot just be prevented but also solved just by using apps such as the owl once was lost phone application again for iOS and for Android devices, it works on the theory of large numbers. The more people that have the application which obviously is free to download and keep that the easier it is for us to get boots on the ground and have people looking in your area. God forbid the worst occurs. Also Thursday were open for help on patreon.com. That's patreon. Once was lost. That's o n c e l l o s t and just pledged $3 a month help us to maintain the app keep the podcast running. There's some higher tiers in that that have some merch included but you know, just the $3 a month would be shown. Your support and you would be part of the solution and not a part of the problem. So that's really what we're looking for is for people to help out on that aspect should be again a part of the support for the missing out there. So the last we left this we had a lot of these tabloids thought were gunning for the ramseys. Of course. It was a lot of information out there concerning the family and how they were being singled out by the detectives and most of the headlines read daddy. Did it been a autopsy Mom and Dad guilty or the handwriting evidence fingers Patsy them wrote The Ransom notes. And again, it was kind of weird at the time how they were even getting a lot of this information, but the globe came up with a graphic crime-scene photographs of the Ramsey house dog. A time but the National Enquirer held its own publishing a chat with Patsy out shopping while the star ferreted out that a large amount of child pornography had been downloaded on access computers back in January the globe offered a reward of $50,000 for evidence leading to the arrest and conviction of the child's killer that prompted the ramseys to raise the $50,000 reward. They had offered to $100,000 in July the globe up the ante to $500,000. That's a lot of money especially in the nineties citing unnamed Source within the investigation the tabloids have laid out two primary theories. The first has it that John Ramsey killed his daughter after a quote sex game that went. Awry the second posits that package Ramsey walked in on her husband molesting the child grabbed a heavy object and swung him but hit her daughter by mistake A variation on this theory. Has it that Patsy in a rage struck her daughter dead. Or threw her against a hard surface both Theory suggests that jonbenet's death was not planned but accidental and then elaborately covered up and why have the ramseys Natsu perhaps be a murder defendant actually has more of a right to privacy than a libel plaintiff. He can always take the Fifth Amendment if we sued for libel, he loses the privilege whether the ramseys are innocent or guilty of that says First Amendment attorney Floyd Abrams, I would advise them not to sue because they are suspects and who would have to have answers to the most intensive and intrusive questions if that time if they were to do a show there is evidence to support certain contentious published in the tabloids some contentions rather that the autopsy report released in full by court order in August established that wage job and they died from a tremendous blow to the side of her head which caused an 8 and 1/2 inch fracture and from garroting. Dr. Richard Krugman a specialist in child abuse brought in as a consulting job. Hunter's office says that there was a vaginal aberration as well which is a sign of trauma but it's not assigned necessarily a sexual abuse doctor cerewet. He will not a forensic pathologist has no doubts that the 45 pound child was molested if she had been taken to a hospital emergency room and doctors had seen the general evidence. Her father would have been arrested. He said the vaginal opening according to dr. Robert kirschner of the University of Chicago is Pathology Department was twice the normal size for six-year-olds, the genital injuries indikitch penetration. He says but probably not buy a penis and there is evidence of molestation that night as well as previous molestation. You are also blood and urine stains on her Underpants considerable obstacle to investigators. According to One well-placed Source in the DA's office was the fact that the crime scene and the body were cleaned up, although not sterilized. Adding to the mishaps the corner didn't examine the body until seven hours after it was discovered and then spent only 10 minutes at the crime scene. That's that's just crazy folks. Anyway, just stunning According to some experts was the Revelation that the child had evidently been redressed after her murder jonbenet's parents told investigators that she was wearing a red turtleneck wage Amma top when they put her to bed. She was found in a white one a red total turbo Mac was in her bathroom sink navy blue fuzz balls adhered to her body and investigators are searching for a faxed to those casting doubt on the theory that an intruder killed JonBenet where the state and the position of the child's body. She was fully clothed and covered with one of her blankets the loan not yours around her neck and right wrist were as investigators say very loose and consistent with the staging more over there were no signs of forcible entry and no footprints in the melting snow Iraq. House Greg McCreary ads that pedophiles and rants on the kidnappers never overlap pedophiles grab the child molest them and discard them Ransom kidnappers or in his strictly for the money. He says, although the coroner did not specify at the time of death or a time of death a neighbor told police that she had been awakened shortly after midnight by a very loud piercing scream coming from the direction of the Ramsey house. The ramseys told police. They had heard nothing John Ramsey's children from his first marriage both Melinda 25 and Johnny and rue21 along with Melendez boyfriends Stewart long arrived at the Ramsey house at 7:55 p.m. On December 26th Ramsey ran to the curb to meet them along a medical school graduate told police that Ramsey had said that Jon Benet had gone to heaven and that he had found her body at 11 a.m. Although according to police reports. He found the body at 1 in the afternoon. So that's bit strange as well. Following day investigators video tape and interview with John Andrew at the conclusion of which they asked him what he thought an appropriate punishment for the person who committed his crime should be after a long pause. She said forgiveness and credulous to the detectives went into the brutality of his half-sisters murder and asked him to reconsider his answer and other Silence ensued then he said again forgiveness Johnny Andrew Ramsey and long declined to comment considering that he isn't a Ramsey there was really no place for this searing tragedy in the exemplary life of John and Patsy Ramsey access Graphics head outperformed his best expectations in a 1996 had revenues of 1 billion dollars Patsy had celebrated more than a year of her life from her cancer which struck her in nineteen ninety three. She had great plans for her family her work at the Junior League and of course jonbenet's career. The child had already been crowned Little Miss dead. Charleroi America's Royal Miss National tiny Miss Beauty and Little Miss Colorado and had one more than a dozen talent and personality Awards the buzz on the pageant circuit was I was going to be this is a one-way trip basically for Jon Benet that she was going to win all of the different prizes. John Ramsey had been raised in the middle class town of Okemos, Michigan the Elder of two sons, he been described then and now as extremely quiet and reserved his mother Mary Jane been a a homemaker died in the mid-seventies and his father James was a decorated World War Two pilot who ran the Michigan Aeronautics commission until he retired in nineteen seventy-nine. That's a win Gibson eighty-two who still lives across the street from the old run Ramsey home says of James they always call them Czar Ramsey because he really ran the York Airport this way it Ramsey friend who met the older Ramsey in the mid-80s recalls that he was very cold like John was wage. Everybody had Michigan State University Rams. He became president of the Theta Chi chapter and in nineteen sixty-six. He married a college classmate Lucinda past following a ROTC training Ramsey spent two years in the Navy stationed at Sub sub Bay in the Philippines while earning his Pilot Wings after receiving His Master's in marketing in nineteen. Seventy one thousand Ramsey signed up for the management development program at AT&T Jeff Marek met with him that same year when Ramsey was living in Columbus, Ohio. He's extremely quiet says Merrick off and some and gregarious man adding. He could be very Charming in nineteen seventy-three Ramsey moved his young family to Atlanta and went to work at a computer company, although he and Merrick drifted apart. I stayed in touch and in 1976 during a visit to Atlanta American his then-wife stained with John and Lucinda and their children at that time. Jim Marino met with Ramsey on a business name. To Syracuse in the late seventies. We immediately became friends said Marino he was going through a divorce at the time but he'd always check in with the kids. However in his own quiet way John Ramsey also has a guy for the ladies according to police reports. His former wife. Lucinda said, it was a romantic plays on with a co-worker. That was the last straw for her although Marina and Ramsey, correct and whored around together. Marino said Ramsey was notably discreet. He never got much out of him said Marino you wondered what he was all about. Although Ramsey walked away from his first wife with little money is closed in a car. He slowly began to prosper as he worked his way through a series of computer companies. His success has Marino was part of his appeal to women. He had money he drove a Porsche and he dressed nice but he was shy however, you could say that whatever he went after he usually got in 1978 Marino after being injured in a motorcycle accident was confined to a wheelchair birth. Almost a year John came and visited me and gave me a job said Mourinho. He saved my life. Although the two went to work for different companies in nineteen eighty. They remained very close friends engage in seventy-nine Ramsey caught a glimpse of a beautiful twenty-two-year-old brunette in Atlanta and pursued her two years earlier. When a journalism major at West Virginia University Patricia, and Paul had not crowned Miss West Virginia and had won a talent award for a dramatic reading of the Miss America Pageant Marino who often double dated with Patsy and Ramsey said his friend was deeply smitten with her. She was his Jackie Kennedy in 1980. They were married in Atlanta Peachtree Presbyterian Church at 37 Ramsey was fourteen years older than passy and the couple settled into a mate. Let's keep caught house and the Dunwoody section of Atlanta, which is a very very nice area of Atlanta. I've been there. It's very very nice Ramsey ran his own company MicroCell from his house and Patsy work to log. Tri dim after a series of business reversals Patsy asked her Father Don Powell a retired Union Carbide engineer to help her husband's struggling company and the word is said that John was going broke and donned bailed them out financially although Dawn and Nedra Powell were able to raise their three daughters Patsy Patricia Pamela and Polly pasch let in the middle class town of Parkersburg West Virginia. Both had endured Hardscrabble childhoods rescued by the g. I bill daunted obtained a college degree which led to a career at Union Carbide networks are done as his Great White Knight San Marino and contrast to her laconic husband. The wiry Nedra was driven and Relentless determined to see that her daughters enjoyed more of the good things in life, and she had said to his vehicle for launching them into a Prosperity was beauty beauty pageants. So I did my first pageant when I was a junior in high school p and Paul told me I won Misty job. America in 1976. I won the national crown for that and I want a local Country Fair contest at the Wood County Fair in nineteen seventy-seven which Patsy also one in nineteen eighty-three years after Patsy all the crown Pam. Also was Miss West Virginia and a Miss America contestant natural become a fixture on the pageant circuit. She was involved in the whole Miss America Pageant organization when I met them said Marino, she was one of the coordinators Jeff Marek didn't meet patssi until 1982 though. He was on a business trip to Atlanta and Ramsey and fighting over for dinner after dinner. We went to a big disco and Patsy and I danced but John didn't dance with Patsy. In fact in the twenty years. He's known him Reno has never seen his friend show physical affection. I never saw John hug Patsy or even give her a kiss. Even when we were dating. He said the first time I saw them clutch was after the murder and I saw him hold her hand on T when they left the church birth. Real by the mid-1980s John Ramsey working with his father-in-law was doing well enough to move into a sprawling Colonial House in Dunwoody Patsy saw to it that both of the ramseys daughter from his first marriage were given coming out parties Judith Phillips be violent attractive photographer first met Patsy Nineteen Eighty-Four when Patsy was working with Phillips husband marum development company in order to be friends with Patsy. You have to accept her into the family because they are such a big part of her life. Especially your mother said Phillips. Sometimes natural wisdom. Not just said things that were so so called out of flying and shocking but the woman is unbelievable in her loyalty towards her daughter's Patsy and Judy Phillips raising children, roughly the same age were drawn to each other. Although there were differences Patsy was very pro-life said Phillips. I was a feminist Patsy who was involved in Atlanta Junior League in a ladies who lunch charity called social T off. And up until the birth of her son Burke. She worked Philip said Patsy had very expensive tastes. She had 18th century art work and exquisitely antiques and John at very expensive and classic taste when it comes to his clothes. He liked his toys. He had his boat named Miss America and a plane in nineteen eighty-nine Ramsey murdered his company with boulder-based access graphics and another firm these control of the new company and in nineteen, ninety one relocated as family to Boulder among his new hires were his old friends Jeff Marek and Jim Marino Ramsay son said they hit the jackpot showing access to Lockheed Martin and continuing to run it as president and CEO Judy Phillips who had moved to Boulder three years earlier. Wondered if Pat's he would have had a hard time making the transition from the Antebellum capital of the South to a small town full of hippies Buddhists and mountain climbers that pretty much sums up that area. However Patsy now the mother of the four-year-old Burke log. Born Jon Benet assured her that she was ready to have a different life Don Paul adapted easily and moved into a company condo on Pearl Street natural Paul. Whoever made no bones about feelings concerning Boulder referring to it as that hellhole in November. Nineteen, ninety one, the ramseys purchased a 6800 square-foot Tudor style house and one of Boulders Choice neighbor is for about $500,000 over the next two years Patsy remodeled and decorated her new home spending According to Jim Marino seven hundred thousand dollars. She was thrilled to Hash House listed on the boulder Christmas tour as well as on the home tour visitors recalled her greeting them at the door with Jon Benet and Burke by her side all of them and matching sweaters featured in jonbenet's room or trophies and medals one visitor said that in huge master bedroom suite Patsy's Miss West Virginia dress and her Miss America competition is dead. For laid out on the bed. Although the ramseys had been Presbyterians. They joined st. John's Episcopal Church. Social climbing said Marino sadly, that's what it was about. She wanted to be where the money was dead friends were dropped as well as the replaced and attractive wealthy Boulder rights were made friends with Karina says, I was never invited to his house John and I were let's get a beer down at the local pub after work. All right guys, we're going to take another break there and we're going to pick up on the third part of this four-part series next week. Please hit the five stars for us. And please. Okay. Patreon.com once was lost, you know, help us out with a $3 a month. That's just enough, you know, a couple of cups of coffee over an entire month, maybe two months actually and you could greatly help our efforts here and also obviously go and download the app if you've got children or you have any elderly grandparents family members anybody struggling wage? Either mentally or physically, this is the app to have and it can literally save somebody's life or even your own. So, thanks again guys, and we'll see you next week.

Johnny Andrew Ramsey Patsy John Jim Marino Ramsey house Patsy Ramsey John Ramsey Jon Benet ramseys Atlanta murder Jeff Marek jonbenet Patsy Nineteen Boulder America West Virginia us Dunwoody Patsy
Friday 12/11/20 - The Death Of JonBent Ramsey Part 1

Chicago Dog Walk

30:47 min | Last month

Friday 12/11/20 - The Death Of JonBent Ramsey Part 1

"Hey what's up guys. It's big cat before you start listening to this episode. I want to let you know that we're running a special sale on all barstool merch. Go to store dot barstool sports dot com and use code podcast for ten percent off goto store dot barstool sports dot com and use code podcast for ten percent off our api. Today is friday december eleventh. Welcome to the dog president of a barstool sports. I'm here with ellie ellie horry get. How are you good. We got a big one today. We do so going to partner. We've got to barter. So so buckle up get ready because you'll hear us this week and next week will be the same thing Because i think it's it's a big enough one that it deserves to parts. Yeah there's a lot going on yes so today. We're going to be covering the death of jon. Benet ramsey which is widely regarded as the biggest mystery. The biggest. You know who done and probably the last thirty years for sure. Yeah it's a. It's a more recent one then a lot of cases that we cover just because it's hard to cover in cases when you don't know enough but this one wasn't that long ago last week we were in the forties so you're in the forties exactly and it ha- i shouldn't you know it happened in ninety six so But i always see. She was born in one thousand nine hundred dollars board in nineteen national. Wasn't oh damn mike she was. You know that's you know thirty years. Whatever so Before we really kick it off here. I wanna talk about. Ap graziano I central week. Is you know christmas. Right around the corner. You want to make sure you gotta jp graziano dot com and you get hooked up with a any pasta trae A sub trae or how about a dessert tray. I'm looking right now. That got the cannoli chip and dip. Trae which i talked a lot about yesterday. They also got a butter cookie. Trae how does that sound. It sounds pretty good thirty ago. Yes one pot of delicious butter cookies. Top sprinkles and dots and filled the flavored buttercream. They got the party can only which is a large cannoli shell filled with eighteen. Many can always That's also a good one on party. Can you like that. That sounds a bus. Yeah there you go yeah you can always you go you'll be good to go So just a ton of good stuff over there like you said he got a posse trae over there. You could build your own pick. Whatever meats and cheeses. You want same thing with the sandwich trae if you want to go in there and say hey i want a little bit italian. I want a little bit of american. They'll do for you. Just gotta jp graziano dot com preorder preorder preorder Jim we'll take care of you for christmas or you know whatever you guys want to do it for if it's before christmas after They'll be there for you. So good shape dot com and make sure you get that in sardelli Jon benet ramsey. What are we gonna lead off here all right. Let's let's just dive in. And so jon benet ramsey. She was born august. Sixth nineteen ninety. She's a classic nineties baby. She was born to john and patsy ramsey who they all lived in boulder colorado. She was known for being a pageant beauty pageant star. Even though she was she's really little her mom put in right away. And i believe her mom was a beauty pageant herself too. She was younger so she was. So this is like honey. Boo boo shit. Honey boo gone wrong so unfortunately she was only six years old when she died so brings us to christmas night. Actually of nineteen ninety. Six to give you guys a little holiday holiday case in here. Yeah that's what also makes sense too because it happened on christmas and these are obviously the weeks leading up to christmas And we should say to like. We're just gonna run through this. A lot of people might not already. But it's gotten to the point where it's so long ago i wasn't that familiar with it so i'm sure there's a lot of people in their twenties early thirties. Who don't know anything about it. So we're gonna run it through it here and now we're gonna get into you know all the all the details after so there's a lot of people who have heard of it but don't y'all specifics are haven't gotten like they know the name. Yes because it's such a. It's such a unique name right. Jon benet ramsey it just it just flows so so well. So that's why we're we're going to run through it here so we're at so here. We are so as evening of christmas in nine nineteen ninety-six yep so ramsey's are coming back from christmas party. They had a good christmas. They put the kids to bed and on the night. So the net night of christmas into the twenty th again. We're in nineteen ninety-six here so all the ramseys everyone's asleep in their bed miss ramsey so patsy ramsey she wakes up around five thirty on the twenty six th then she gets up to go make the coffee and she finds a ransom note on the staircase. So little does she know. She wakes up before dawn. Even china's ransom note and jon benet is not. She's not in her bed. So right off the bachelorette. Oh my god. She's been kidnapped. Calls the police immediately. I don't know my question would be like. Did you take time to read the ransom note because the ransom note was two and a half pages long so it wasn't just like a doctor's gonna give me money. It was like they wrote her. Short novel was huge. Yeah like huge. It was very. I guess you could say it was well written. Well there at least was a lot of thought into it. He say if it was two and a half pages right. Think about if you were to sit here and handwrite two and a half pages right now quick. No that's a lot exactly. So i i don't know. She found the note i before. She realized that she was gone right like it wasn't like she checked the room. I just walked on the spiral. Staircase right said she had walked down and go make the coffee. The note was sitting there on the staircase. Then that's when she went up in allegedly realized that jon benet was gone and so the ransom note was asking for one hundred eighteen thousand dollars exactly for john. Benes return which you know right off the bat while it's a very specific amount of money to be asking for for nineteen like why. How did you get their robber like what. What's wrong with the hundred thousand flat right. What's right not rounded up to one twenty. What's you know. One eighteen specifically which ironically was also the same amount Of john ramsey's so jon benet dad. His christmas bonus that year so he was a very successful businessman. So we're you know we're in this ransom note stating they want. Essentially exactly the bonus. They want the christmas bonus without saying that exactly. Yeah so that kind of puts your antennas up. It's like okay who knew that. He was awarded one eighteen. His work Like this is you know someone had to have known that so that was obviously a small amount of people at his work or maybe he told someone that kind of narrows it down there but obviously the story has a million twists and turns. Is there so. We'll just keep going until they're just dipping our chosen so they're answering are also specifically directed the family not to call police And patsy found the ransom note before she called police. So but right off the bat i mean. She went down at five thirty. Two note realized jon benet was gone but by six o'clock police were there and searching the house so right off the bat she was not not maybe necessarily concerned with dot direction of of calling the police so police come to the house. They're doing research. They can't find jon benet so at this point it looks like a kidnapping and jonbenet's body wasn't found until much later in the day nine hours later or something right which we'll get to where she was founded on the story but so they get the police get there and i also saw that they they scan the whole house and there was one room they didn't go in for whatever. Reason was the other side of the basement. Which you know i mean. Listen if you know the story you know what's what's there So whatever the guy said it was locked. And he's thinking okay if someone's getting away certainly didn't lock that behind him so they didn't check behind the store so the search goes on. Nobody knows where she is. And at this point. She's assumed kidnap. They're trying to get the money but they're trying to get the money rounded up trying to have some claim this reward. I think she's still alive right. Yeah so all we know at this point is it's kidnapping and like you said so police. When they're searching the house that door is locked. You know you think it's kidnapping it's quicken. And now they're not gonna take the time to lock the door behind them. They didn't end up checking in which you know. Obviously hindsight's twenty twenty but if they were to have checked that room like this case could have turned out so differently But unfortunately it didn't so linda aren't was the first detective on scene once. They've searched the house. They can't find johnny. She actually tells john the dad and one of his friends to themselves. Do a search of the house which i mean yes. We're back in the nineties late nineties. That's also that's also just crazy to me to be like. Oh this is. We've got a crime scene. Let's let the family of a potential victim searched the crime scene and that's a detective to like not the police role in the first guy who searched her whole house with. I believe he was with a partner and they searched the whole place. And he's the one that disregarded the the one door to the to the basement this detective. Who knows what they should be fucking doing Who knows that anything everybody in there is going to contaminate things and make things more difficult for actually finding out what happened here so seems weird for sure that he would tell. That aren't the first detective would say hey to search wrong. See if he could find her and you know she had against. Tell me if anything looks often mistake on her part. That should've never should've never happened. But john and his friend go search the house the first place that john busey can be lines it to the basement there looking around and they end up checking that locked room the little room in the. And that's where they find geminis body she is she's already deceased. She has been strangled and beaten We'll get into a little bit of the more specifics of that. But initially john grabs. Jon benet body and runs upstairs so now right then and there. We've got contaminated everything. Essentially this crime scene is not. The entire thing is contaminated which i fully believe. Hurt the investigation to even they might have been able not to say that would have been able to solve it but they might have been able to have. All the evidence wasn't tampered with you. That says a strange reaction. I know i have no idea how i would react by was a father right but to grab the body in move the body like that's that's so basic like about people. Would you know what to do in this situation. Was you know what to do in that situation. You don't know everything. I don't know how i would Handle a you know. I'm outline attack right here. I mean but its basic knowledge that you should never ever touched or move the body. Yeah i mean alone. They shouldn't have been in the crime scene either but yes even prior to them searching house finding the body. I mean the only area that the police detective wherever blocked off giannis room then blocked off the rest of the house. People were walking through the house Family that came by after. I heard there was going on there wanting to help out. And they're moving shit like they're clean around thinking they're helping. I mean it was. It was a botched shop from from from the jump and and the police took a lot of heat for this. But it's what else can you say it's it's just. It just seems like a fact that they just didn't attack the right way from the gecko so yeah Which definitely ended up hurting. But you know he moves her body so the crime scene is contaminated. All around. i mean evidence was evidence was still taken but it was less credible in that sense. Because you never know who's going to be touching who and what's going to be on what so when when jon benet was found. She was covered issues covered in a blanket. And so you know you can always try and plug from that. But john dad also covered her up in another blanket as well so again still contaminating stuff in adding stuff to crime scene. And what have you so ultimately though jon benet was found like i said strangled and beaten. Her mouth was covered in duct tape and her wrist and her neck. We're wrapped in a cord which was said to have been used to make a makeshift garrett. Those guys who don't know what a garage is. It's you know trigger warning if you if anyone's queasy but it's essentially a choking device and you have two handles on agenda roper accord something you use it Poll yeah so it's it's a kind of like a manual noose in the sense. Yes yeah instead of hanging you would just be someone using it. And that's also so that's very damning piece of evidence right. There that ended up itself is clearly an intentional weapon. You wouldn't have that just lying around your house. No somewhat have to make that function. The way could to get that result. Yeah and it was it was it was essentially a diy. Garage it will. It was made the handled on. It were made from one of patsies paintbrushes and so that kind of ties. Her and people jump on that wagon patsies. The mom saying oh well it. Was you know her paintbrush. And they kinda point to her as as one of the suspects which will get into but she also was found so we've got the duct tape we've got. She was strangled and her cause of death was strangulation by fix s fixation. She also had a skull fracture though and not any skull fracture. She had like a gash in her head. That was over eat inches long. That's a big gash. I mean think about and she was a six year old. she's got a tiny head. That is a huge gash in your head that that's quite like that's quite the blow like that's to have that happen like something like there had to be some type of object right hard. Yeah for sure. And that was one thing that i did not see mentioned in any of the researchers documentaries or anything was like you would think with a gash that big there would be a lot of blood right like one heads bleed a lot anyways but there wasn't there wasn't there was a drop of blood on her underwear and that was it. So did someone clean up. Was you know what was with someone. House involved in cleaned up it was there was a surprising lack of blood for having that big of a wound to the head. And it's strange in the sense of. Why is there that wound wiser blunt force trauma. If there was a garage use for strangulation. It's weird follow along with that closely because that place in a big here with at the end to the theories of what happened so yeah. It's just to keep everyone on pace here. Yeah it seems like overkill or at least something personal right so yeah. Keep that in mind. there was evidence on her body. There was that there was sexual assault however no semen was found in inner on her body or left at the scene anywhere i mean it was also said that her genitals had been wiped clean so i don't know if that was an intentional thing to wipe away dna. I'm it could tie into one of our other theories as far as her wedding the bed as well so you know. I don't know what their evidence of sexual assault whether they you know. See it like. I said there was no. dna sexual dna left on her. But there was a drop of blood and skin cells found in her undergarments. So i also don't really know what wipe clean even like if she was ever all body in the blood on it then. She was completely wiped clean right. That's what i play. That's that seems like a very intentional statement to make. Yeah if i mean there had to be something that necessarily stood out about it to say that it was wiped gus. That's what i'm like. I hear why why why if sheriff there was really no blood like the whole seemed like whole. She would be completely wiped clean. Like why did they was that just approved like there was something that happened. I don't know. I i found that we're like like like how would that i. I don't know who's a strange. Yeah you're saying it's it was very the whole sexual assault thinks me was. I didn't know there was almost a lack of evidence because there was no the only dna founding in yes there was a drop of blood and it was said to be an unknown males. Drop of blood so okay. We've got that we've got you know quote unquote skin cells. But other than that there had to have been something for them to to claim sexual assault. It's you've got to have. That's a bold claims. Had some you've got to have something there and that could be in with like i said we're gonna get to it. That could be into where there were suming of. Who did this. Like what they were after You know so but the only other thing that crossed my mind with her being sexually assaulted was was it. A was it for lack of a better word. I guess was fresh or was it something they could tell. That like had been just been done before so i don't know with that. It definitely plays into some of the theories. But john like i said john ramsey immediately picked up the body which again could have been involuntary. Maybe he knew what he was doing by doing that. Could you could definitely say that wasn't intentional. Thing to do but there was just so when the autopsy was done it was found that she had an undigested piece of pineapple found on her stomach which to me all the theories. I don't it's an interesting thing to put in there. Yes that's definitely part of the autopsy that's done is finding the contents in the stomach since last eight maybe You can get some sort of a timeline from it. But her parents said that they didn't feed her pineapple so crazy. That was crazy powers at will. We have pineapple hair weed and feed it to her. And that's our okay. Yeah but there was a bowl of pineapple on the kitchen counter which was said they her older brother burke who is nine years old it was said to be his his bowl pineville his snack on the counter and the bullhead his fingerprints on it which doesn't really mean much with his finger. You know his fingerprints on it the day before. Something doesn't mean no. It doesn't really necessarily place him as a suspect. But it's just. I don't know that i tied it super strongly to any theory but it could be. I mean it's definitely a weird weird thing to say. She's got pineapple in her stomach. Better parent feed her any. Yeah and it could be as little as She walked by. He gave her one or something like that. So who knows. But it's it is strange like okay then If we didn't feed a tour where to get the lineup of from that of course when you see that he had a kind of like brings it down a little bit but it still still an interesting nonetheless. Yeah it's just something to note in there then guess it can tied with theory for sure but back to the ransom note so right off bat. Bramsen note is really. It's two and a half pages long for a kidnapping ransom note. Keep that in mind. It's written it's a composed letter right. It's not there's not a ton of misspellings it's it's written quote unquote well And it had said. Don't call police. It said that the kidnapper was going to call between eight and ten. Am to tell them how to give them the money. Give them directions. But you know patsy calls police. Police come like said there there by six. Am so they're searching the house. They're trying to find out what's going on that window. That eight to ten window comes and goes and neither john or patsy make make no note of it. Make a big deal out of it like i you know again. We don't know how people are gonna react in these situations but if you've got your child is kidnapped. You've got a specific timeline of when who took your child is going to call. You would think that would be a pretty big deal. Yeah definitely and no i. I saw somewhere to that. He might have made ways to go. Pay like you might have made some type of transfer to make this happen. But i i. I don't know exactly what happened. There were there was obviously a breakdown at some point because a who really knows if this person existed be how. How seriously was he of it and who really knew so much of the situation so i don't know it's it's still very strange so this is all before japanese bodies spent found that you know eight sam's no one calls and to me the weirdest part is they find the body in house. There was no kidnapping. There's this ransom note about this kidnapping. It's a really long ransom note but is found in the house. I mean she was never kidnapped So that it doesn't fit nothing. Nothing about this fits lasting about is there. It was written on paper. that was already in the ramsey's house. Essentially they like you know had stationary or paper. That was already in the house. So if you're trying to kidnap someone you're trying to get in and out. The whole family is home. They're all asleep the chances for them to wake up for the kid not to make any noise if they haven't been drugged or anything to get in and out gift. The kid not wake anyone up. You know not disturb the haunted house but then to sit there and write a two and a half page letter is it's it's it's not. It doesn't make sense though in even if they wrote the letter after mike winning like placed it back up there really quick like you don't right so it had to be ahead to be pre written but how could it be pre written if the paper was there. Yeah that's that's the best to catch up the note. Is the craziest part about this all. Yeah like i think by far. I think it's one of the bases of damning evidence because there's just so many things that don't fit about it especially the fact that it's a kidnapping a ransom note for a kidnapped girl. That wasn't kidnapped first. Place Does it doesn't make sense. And so all right. We've got this ransom note. That doesn't make sense. We've got a request for john's christmas bonus They take in. They know police end up questioning john and patsy the end of questioning actually burke to the brother The parents are cooperative at first until they're made to be suspects there named as suspects and they. They pretty much stopped. Cooperating make it a little bit harder. Which i guess i don't blame you. I'm i'm a suspect in a case i'm probably not going to be. I guess as easy to do everything that police say. They're trying to nail someone for their so. You've got to look out for yourself as well. Do you gotta be careful for sure. The thirty so other evidence that was found in the home they. If we're going with we can kind of go. One of two ways here. I way is someone in the house. Did it or someone. Outside of the home came in as an intruder and they did it. Cer- we're going with that theory. The other evidence to support that would be. There was a boot print that was found. There was a window in the basement. The window was broken and there was a blueprint. Found next to wear. Johnny's body was that didn't match anyone in the house. And when i say the window was broken up i don't necessarily mean like it was smashed in. There's like a wide open windows like to close it the latch. It wasn't closed correctly so it was partly open. And you know all right. That's a way in if you're looking to get in a house and you know it's it's not like it's a window on second or third floor. You've got direct access right there. The blueprint is definitely an interesting going with the family. Did i don't know how that would fit into it because if it doesn't match anyone in the family that could definitely point to an intruder being in the house but like i said there was also the drop of blood in her underwear was from an unknown male. I don't know that's you know. We are still in the nineties. How how good. Dna technology was and being an only a drop of blood. I don't even know that we'd be able to retest today. As far as like developed technology goes but it was entered into quotas in two thousand and three in at that time no matches have been found then now okay so that's where we are so that's a and them. So yeah i think we that basically laying down the groundwork right right so now comes down to like said who did it. Who do you. Who do you believe it. Okay because we don't fucking now we don't know let's either one of the parents the dad the mom possibly the brother who how will does it brother brothers. Two years older three years older. He's ninety six okay or obviously someone broke into this. So we've got. I mean that's a pretty good poor at their suspect. Start with him implicitly. Had their work cut out for them in like. I said the parents were questioned Burqas questions they gave. Dna samples so please got their dna. The actually also keep handwriting samples obviously to match up with the ransom note And that was eventually they were cleared except for patsy. The mom they said it was. It was not close enough to call it hurricane writing but she wasn't cleared like immediately like In barkor they said that they did find some things to think it could be her. But there was nothing conclusive which right there makes me think like okay that that's that's a huge part that notice such a big part like we're gonna keep back to this note because because you're like i just can't get over the fact that if it wasn't intruder like you're going to be panicked like this thing was so well thought out so well manny scripted. That you're going to do all that you're gonna write three. Maybe three sentences you think about the ransom from last week. You know on the wall one-sentence yes. I took your daughter. Here's what i want. Here's what you do to say. Yes yeah there's nothing else to say. Yes but this is if you do this. I'll kill her. If you think about this i'll kill in. If you even think about this. I'll kill her like it was so weird like strange that an intruder would go through these links and like you said just to kill. So this is why let. Let's start with the family then. So that's the that's patsy. So yeah we have her. She was the big thing was so her handwriting. Henry potentially matches that yes and thinking about. Okay maybe it potentially meant also if you're writing say say it was her and she was writing the ransom note. I mean. I guess. I wouldn't put it past someone to make it not look like they're handwriting. You don't think about when a beer parents like from santa ana gift or something right. They're not gonna make it look like they're handwriting or they get a note from the tooth fairy or something like that like you're going to try and make it look different for sure so that could play into it. If we're going with forgotten with it was the mom. The theory that i found for this as far as a motive. So like i said in the beginning jon. Benet was known for getting her bed. She did pretty often and again. She's six years old. She's a kid so known around her family. You should say yes but it's crazy because it did end up turning into a national headline where you know these magazines were picking it up and the headline would say she went her. Bet like it was. It was pretty much. Put this little girl on blast about wedding or bet but continue. This have much to do with it. If we're not going with the family theory no has nothing to do with it. Not at all but it was something that was made a big deal of that that the mom would get upset with her about wedding bed. So this is where the best wedding theory comes in. And i'll let you take that art. Everybody's along a pause right there. We'll be back next friday with jon. Benet ramsey part to like i said at the top of this is alleged to make sure you're you know when it comes to our opinions. You're taking it with a grain of salt the sand. Oh we think maybe could have been. This could have been that. It's all leads people. Besides the stuff is actually factual in there that we read from you. Know news reportings or detectives but Make sure you're taking that mind But yeah this is part one. We'll be back with partout next week. Like i said We'll see then.

jon benet Jon benet ramsey john Trae patsy ramsey ten percent Benet ramsey ellie ellie horry one thousand nine hundred doll ramsey jon benet ramsey patsy one hundred eighteen thousand john ramsey jonbenet john busey john grabs Jon benet giannis graziano
Presenting THE KILLING OF JONBENT: THE FINAL SUSPECTS

Diana: Case Solved

17:32 min | 1 year ago

Presenting THE KILLING OF JONBENT: THE FINAL SUSPECTS

"Hi Danielle Robea. I'm the host of a new podcast series. Called the killing of Jon. Benet the final suspects. It investigates a case. Ace that has gripped the world for twenty two years leaving everyone asking the same question. Who Killed Jon? Benet Ramsey. The six year old's death shocked the nation seven the circumstances surrounding murder horrific now for the first time ever Jon Benet Ramsey father and brother are armed with the original suspect aspect list from loose Smith. The late lead investigator on the case. Will they finally track down. jonbenet's killer to solve one of the nation's most infamous crimes up up next the first episode of the killing of Jon. Benet the final suspects while you're listening. Go subscribe to the killing of Jon. Benet the final suspects on apple podcasts. Wherever you're listening now there's also a link in the episode notes that will take you there? Taylor how old is you How long ago was saying the same thing? The three it was the infamously desperate call for help that has since been heard around the world in the early morning of December Twenty Sixth Nineteen ninety-six Patsy see Ramsey dialed nine. One one D- report the apparent kidnapping of her six year old daughter. Jon Benet from their home in a fluent area of Boulder Colorado. I am honey career By the end of that day the ramseys found jonbenet's body in their own basement. A little girl was dead. This was boulder older Colorado. This was a little six year old girl who had been tortured and murdered and left in her home. It was a town that didn't even have a homicide excited partly because they didn't have homicides. It was horrifying for twenty three years. The death of six year old Jon Benet Ramsey has been the most notorious Torius and heartbreaking unsolved murder in American history and despite thousands of policemen hours unprecedented public interest and a witch hunt directed at her parents. Still the ultimate question remains unanswered. Welcome to the killing of Jon. Benet Ramsey the final suspects hosted by me Daniel Roby. I'm out Syrian Germany from other this patsy Ramsey talking to the media in one thousand nine hundred eleven. I'm Paul that anyone would think that Jon or I would be involved. Auden such a serious heinous crimes but let me assure you that I did not kill Jonbenet. I did not have anything to do with it. I loved that child with my whole of my heart and soul over the next twelve installments. You're going to hear what may be the most exhaustive investigation into Jon Benet as murder in decades led by investigative reporter Dougie through his decades working this case Doug Long. Genie has become a trusted colleague to some of the most knowledgeable. Insiders this is doug talking to very unlikely Jon Benet expert from North Carolina. She goes by the single name. Jameson so with Louis. List the suspects in our ability to actually collect. DNA could actually move. This case along significantly could actually have a breakthrough. What do you think the and a finite list? Now of moos suspect they have cleared a couple of people people. But there's more to be done and ORCAS A lot. We will learn much more about detective. Smits suspects spreadsheet in future episodes but before diving into the investigation. Gatien we I need to go back to the beginning and the details of that awful December twenty sixth morning twenty three years ago. My name is Cyril Wecht. I'm a physician I specialized in Anatomic clinical and forensic pathology ah five thirty a m on the day after Christmas Jon. Benet Ramsey's mother Causey Ramsey. I'd gotten up to to make breakfast for them. She came down and she saw a piece of paper a regular standard size eight and a half by eleven piece of paper. She you got to note and said we represent a small foreign faction. That's the way it begins then it goes on from there and it makes a demand of money she patsy Ramsey she rushes up and indeed her daughters not in her bed. She Awakens her husband. They we do a quick search. They called Koch Patsy Ramsey's nine one one call. Some of which you heard at the beginning of this episode has been the subject of two decades worth of conjecture and debate. Here's former supervisory. Deputy United States Marshal Mark McLeish Patsy Ramsey Zia called nine one one when she found the ransom note and so the I want Upper Astra. What's going on in an impasse? Gave their address so then the second time the operate said what's going on there man impasse responsive we have a kidnapping her. You please cops come to the house than by six o'clock in the morning. They searched searched house and do not find girl. My Name's Robert Whitson. And I was on call detecting supervisor in nineteen ninety six when Jon Benet Ramsey case occurred was Oxley six o'clock or so in the morning I received a call that there was a kidnapping and so Got Hold of two detectives who responded and then I responded. I went to the police east department and met with the night shift supervisor and also started making some phone calls so I didn't get up to the house. It was probably early. Probably around nine o'clock in the morning almost from the moment boulder police responded to Patsy. Ramsey's nine one. One call catastrophic mistakes. Mistakes were made although the case was still the kidnapping normal police protocol would dictate that. The ramseys house should have been treated as a crime scene. As detective of Whitsun explains it was not. When I went in the house? I actually was a little surprise because there were three or four adults standing there there and I asked one of the detectives who are these people and he told me that they were friends of the Ramseys at that point. One of the mistakes I made Ed was. I should've took those people someplace else. Either to the Police Department or to one of the other neighbor's homes that lived thereby but I should have had them removed from the house at that point. Of course we're working. Under the assumption that disappeared to be a legitimate kidnapping uh-huh and also the movie ransom had just come out a couple weeks before and there were a lot of similarities as far. Here's the movie ransom with the information we had at that time. Detective Whitson also remembers both Patsy and John at this stage remaining relatively calm. I met with Mr Ramsey. He was very common collected. I only talk to Patsy not Ramsey for probably a minute or less and I did was teller that we were gonNA do everything possible to get their daughter back she basically was sitting in a it was on the first level and she was sitting in a chair and you could tell she'd been crying detectives and I went up to John. Benes Bedroom. Just did a real quick cursory look shut the Dr Crime scene tape over that specifically told Mr Ramsey nobody it goes in that room I also ask him for samples of His and Mrs Ramsey's handwriting. It gave me to you know pads and I didn't even look at him that at that point we could drive around the area to see. If there's anybody suspicious officious or anybody look like could possibly be involved. I have to tell you that I was told that police officers had searched the house and didn't find anything As detectives were about to find out that initial search had been anything but satisfactory Atas factory even as the house filled with everyone from police to friends of the family. The broken body of Little Jon Benet was lying behind a door in the basement Here's Mark Niklas. It is a little bit unusual analysis. Thought they're dealing with a kidnapping because you had a ransom. No but you absolutely want to do the searching the house which they did but it was just a cursory search insert every room obviously because it in discovering her body they detective John Ramsey to look around see if anything thing was missing and so he took her friend they started in the basement. I guess debasement work their way up. But that's when John Ramsey he went into a room there was a larger room called the train room head to train tracks setup in there. Then there's this room which I think was a wine cellar. That wasn't being used as a wine cellar room that had no windows. That's where John Ramsey founder Johnny's body. Our team has spoken exclusively to John Ramsey about that terrible morning. mm-hmm well it was. It was first. Reliefs am I got founder is said it's a flood of thankfulness. I I pretty quickly realized that she wasn't alive ice-cream aerodrome sears. Not You know. Of course I was criticized is for disturbing the crime seat. What would you do? Oh It's my Dr. I'm not gonNA touch her because I don't want to disturb. The crime scene at is insane that would have been suspicion. The channel Gilead big time and yet the police thought that was bizarre. Leah criticised before disturbing the crime scene is just distance the local news reporter. Paula Woodward covered the case from the START I was in investigative reporter for Twenty Twenty five to thirty years. I'd say TV farther discovered the body which was fought was so strange. The Boulder Police Department really mishandle. Because they you just didn't know how to do it. They left after ascertaining that they didn't think she was in the house. They did a cursory search and her father was is told by the one detective in the House. A why don't you look around stupid things out of place which is so strange so he went to the basement with a friend and and he found her body and it was just in talking to him. What a terrible thing as apparent defined your in order channeled spotty this is detective Robert Woodson then When the call came in that they had found Jonbenet's body I another detective drove to the Ramsey's house and the house was secured when I walked in the front door people were standing immediately inside the Dr? There's like a foyer area. On the first level I remember Mrs Ramsay was holding a Jon. Benet is like a mother's Wail. She was just crying profusely when he asked the minister for if he would ask her to put Jon Benet down she laid the body down. I remember them having to assist her Into the other room she is basically just so distraught. Lamp was hard for her to walk on her own power. Uh If discovering the body of your six year old child isn't terrible enough. The horror was compounded by the sickening injuries. Jon Benet had sustained forensic antic pathologist Cyril Wecht and former sheriff's investigator Johnson August in talk us through those injuries in what may for some listeners be upsetting detail findings at autopsy revealed a rope around the neck and went into. That rope was tied to loop around the the Freight wrist there was a factor on the top of the skull about seven and a half eight inches in length frontal to accept. So that means you're on the front of his Co. forehead region and to the rear part of this go there were two stun-gun marks found on her face ace and on her back which both injuries were very similar. Further pathological findings noted by the the coroner included chronic inflammation of the lining of the vaginal wall called the vegetable new Khoza very the delicate lining. There were some wood fibers that were found inside her vaginal bulb indicating that she had been sexually assaulted. So when you put just that piece together somebody had stun gun her. Somebody had sexually assaulted her. Somebody had strangled her and then somebody subsequently had do some Blunt object to strike her head cracking those acceptable load boulder. Police were no longer dealing with a kidnapping capping. They were dealing with the sexual assault torture and murder of an innocent six year old girl and from the start it seems detectives in sleepy peaceful town completely unable to cope. No one of the investigators have any homeside experience. Everyone on that case probably seven or eight of them initially none of them had homicide experience and logic would dictate to you you I need. Somebody was home. Shot experience inhabit as John August. In who would later investigate the case alongside detective Lou Smit explains Mr Douglas Guinea many of the later problems and controversies that have dogged the case sprang from the initial blunders made by the Boulder police force. When you're doing an investigation much like this where the initial call is a kidnapping? It is crucial that the crime scene in our terms and law enforcement profession. We use a term called forensic sterility and what that means that you try to maintain that crime scene as best you can India's at debt. Somebody loves something or took something and so what happens in this case is that we have a major contamination of the crime scene because not only do not remove the family from the crime scene when the call comes in we actually allow the family to introduce into to the crime scene. Their friends their their pastor is allowed to come into the crime scene so there was never any real security of the crime scene at the onset of this investigation to compound the problem even further. What happens is that law enforcement asks a potential suspect who should have been separated in place in a car car in question to go look for things out of the ordinary that should have been the role of either the investigators or the crime scene techs? Who would have been processing that scene? But instead John Ramsey's the one that then you know provides that contamination that additional contamination of which is is why this case no twenty three years later is still unsolved because of all the screw ups that happen in the onset of this investigation mm-hmm that was just a preview of the killing of Jon. Benet the the final suspects to hear the rest. Listen on Apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcast subscribe now to join the investigation.

Jon Benet Ramsey Jon Benet Koch Patsy Ramsey Jon kidnapping John Ramsey Benet murder Marshal Mark McLeish Patsy Ram Mr Ramsey Detective Whitson Patsy Cyril Wecht jonbenet apple investigator investigative reporter boulder Danielle Robea
Episode 53: Meanwhile in the animal world

CritterCast

59:29 min | 10 months ago

Episode 53: Meanwhile in the animal world

"Welcome to critter cast episode fifty three. I'm your co host. Corinna and I'm Cathy are other Coho. Yes and this is critter. Cast our Wacky wild and wonderful podcast about all things. Animals all over the world. We are not experts here. Critter cast we are just hardcore fan girls of critters big and small and excellent researchers and one of us is an excellent researcher and one of US hated research in school but is pretty good at researching animals. Today on critter cast friends. We bring you not an episode all about one particular species of animal or even one particular individual animal with everything going on in the world. And yes if you don't know what we're talking about. I'm very surprised you must only doing a great job self quarantining. You're listening to this in the future. Just discovered our podcast. And you've gone back and you're listening to all the action on three thousand right. Everybody lives underwater in tunnels under the ground. He you know he thousand in tunnels under the snow. We live underwater. Don't come at me. Jonas brothers have the rights for that song. Maybe you're right. Maybe we are talking about cove in nineteen the corona virus. Everyone is being encouraged to help. Slow the spread of this virus that you know. We don't have a treatment or vaccine for at this time to stay home as much as possible and to self quarantine whether or not. You're sick just to keep everybody else around you healthy and keep you from picking up germs and spreading them to author is yes so be a decent person. Follow the guidelines. And we're going to give you some really cool things to make you smile a little bit on a gloomy day. That's rate and some recommendations on things that you can do to be a really cool animal lover during this time. Awesome because you know. That's what we're here for. Yeah I love it. We felt like this was very important right now. Because there's enough bad news in the world and enough stress and the thing that makes me happiest when I'm really stressed out is happy animal stories. So that's what we've bringing you. We've we we're bringing you on the scripted podcasts. Critter cast genuine animal friends. He makes the joke. We laugh a lot. We also like to learn out shot. We'll talk about snails pleaser teeth. Or Gosh about manatees. We'll tell you why also scary to us and there's tons built excel because you are. Yes you are you are listening to critter cast and we are so excited to have you here today and like we said you know. We're doing something a little bit different today but we think that you'll really enjoy it. They're still going to be some nerdy science aspects. The stories as well as you know maybe just some cute stories to you. GotTa do both so. We swapped off each picked a couple different stories to highlight. I don't know who who wants to start. Do you WANNA start. Sure I can start. Go for it Do you want me to start with a more SCIENC- heavy one or like a funnel intro one. I have mine so I have a fun. One a science when and then a fun one so we can just spread them out a little bit okay. That sounds good. So let's start with just a quick little fun. One sounds good all right so a couple of episodes ago we talked about Koalas in the devastation that quotas and other marsupials were facing in Australia. I was a result of the really out of Control. Bushfire season And there was a lot of bad news in that one. Yeah some positive stuff. Yeah for rescue and recovery team so I have a couple more really really positive stories. That came out of that. Good so both of these are. I'm just going to do them together. Because they're both really short and they're about dogs and dogs saving the day in Australia during the bushfires not surprised dog saved the day every day. Obser- lutely so first of all is a dog named Patsy Ramsey hats. A good name. She's a herding dog. She is actually a shepherd mix and she live on farms and does a lot of hurting right so win. The bushfires were spreading to a town in Victoria called core young coral. Sure core young. Why not it's about two hundred and twenty miles south of Canberra? She and her owner Stephen or her handler. Stephen we're like hey. We know what to do so they hopped in their car and they drove out to the front lines where all the sheep were and it can be really really really really really really really hard right to get sheep to do what you want. `specially when they're panic that's why we literally bred dogs do it because is not easy. Dogs are the main way that we can do this. The only really effective ways right Safeway's and especially in a payment situation when it's there's a fire literally coming towards you you gotta get those those sheep moving in the direction you want them will patsy said I am here to save the day she spring into action and she helped to hurt over two hundred twenty sheep Let's see there was actually a flock of more than two hundred and twenty and she saved all but six girl. Right you go. She's amazing and you're the beautiful thing about that is that because she's a dog she's not going to spend the rest of her life feeling bad about those six now as a dog. So it'd be like I did a job. Did a good job did my work. She did the best. I was so good good girl. Patsy could good job. I know the good dog so then the other story that I have about a dog has been virga. Dog in Australia is a dog named bear. Bear is a herding cattle dog mix and bear was actually a rescue himself. Of course he was my know. What a good boy he was. He's a very good boy and like many of the herding dog types. He is very eager to learn and very smart so he was a little over energetic as hummy so his handler figured out that his favorite thing to do was to sniff around and who helped locate marsupials. Yeah and so. He actually been doing this for a while. As part of conservation efforts. His job was to walk through undergrowth and to sniff out trees where Koalas and qualls. Which is another type of Marsupial Were living where maybe wasn't the best place for them and they could be Either counted or checked on or if necessary they could be included in a conservation effort. Oh Yeah so. It was kind of perfect for hair. Koalas SNIFFEN Indo. Yeah because when the bushfires went through a lot of qualities made it through the bushfires right but then the danger was not having food afterwards right right or maybe having injuries that went untreated so nothing. Habitat your exactly. That was the big problem right So he and his handler Took precautions to keep them safe by putting on protective socks on his little posers And then they walked through the scorched areas after the fire was out and sniff out all of the qualities and survived so that they could be taken for treatment or two sanctuaries loses. That would make sure they were taking care of because death tolls can be so much higher for wildlife when there aren't efforts like that exactly so what a good boy bear good dog just those those star efforts on all accounts and her roic in the moment and one that can continue doing work such a dog after you know the fact for a long long time after the fact or Koalas and all the other animals in Australia because dogs are there to help them. Out and their handlers. Handlers are so both dogs and people working together help which is which is just a star team anytime you get a really good working dog and a really solid responsible owner. They can do a lot together absolutely so cool so sweet. I love it. What good stories to get started here? I think we'll continue on this track of like easy just kind of cute stories. And then we'll maybe get little older one. And then maybe take a mini pause and listen to some other podcasters and then we will continue on our journey. I love it'll be so fun so my first story for you. Cassie is about. Are you going to be surprised? No it's about a cat. I was GONNA guess us. How could it be? We all know here that like ultimately. I can't even think about all the numerous wild animals that I love. So whenever people ask me you know. What's your favorite animal? I'm just like cat cat. Cat doesn't matter specifically of course are domesticated house cats. Yeah so my story. I originally found on the Dodo. Which if you guys are not familiar. I them on facebook following their website. They have a lot of fun animal stories. It's a kind of website exactly not the kind of website to go onto for like legitimate sourcing right right issues but if you're just looking to smile about some animal things and cute photos does a great resource for that. Yeah so this article was titled Cat Pretends Not to like new baby then gets caught sneaking into nap with her. Oh I tell you that's kind of others to the story but details are really. What's the cat's name? The cat's name is Sonny. Oh and he is a at the time of his adoption. He was eight years old. They didn't say exactly how long it had been. But probably you know ten ten plus year old short haired Orange Tabby cat yeah. He spent six years of his life in a shelter. More than house. Like what area there from more why? He was shelter for so long. It seems like he's more of a quiet cat and quiet. Cats don't tend to show so he was in a shelter from the time he was to all the way up until he was about eight years old and they adopted him and it was like love at first they wanted him they him and his mom and dad just had a nice quiet life at home and everything was well and he's perfectly happy then and then they brought a baby. How dare they so his little sister named Hazel? He was very unimpressed with her. I bet the nice thing about the story. I was a little bit worried when I first saw it. Because a lot of times stories like this are all about how animals are so uncomfortable or so afraid of new babies that there is kind of like a dangerous specht and honestly with sunny. He was just very unimpressed. He did a little sniff and then he just did his best to intentionally ignore the baby all aspects of life. I several months if I don't look at it doesn't exist exactly. He was like no. They're like here comes to your sister and he was like ill. I don't know basically like baby. Corinna Corinna loved her siblings. I love my siblings very much. Still sometimes you know we're adults so we have different issues but so they thought you know. Well it's not the end of the world. We wish that our cat and our baby could grow up and be friends but as long as everyone's safe it's fine but then one night they of woke up in the middle of the night and realize that they sunny wasn't around sending usually sleeps with them so they checked up on the baby monitor and he had jumped into the baby's crib sleeping beside her later. Kind of figured out that he was probably doing this for a while before but when no one was watching but when they went in and checked on him and he saw that they saw him like I guess the jigs up and then from then on. He was not so secretive about cycling with her and he'll regularly do it all days and hours of one of their updates towards the end when they were like getting this story published. Was that one morning. She was really crying in her crib. And everyone's all around. He just jumped right in and nuzzle her face to calm her and snuggle her now. They nap together all the time they're like. I don't know why he needed to pretend like he did for so long. So we actually argument with friends for life. He had a reputation to maintain. Okay right he's like Cats and babies don't mix but actually they really do sunny and Hazel. We think we'll be best friends for a long though. Cute just such a sweet little story. I know I've mentioned this before but when I was a baby. My mom had a one year old cat. And he was such a good cat he was so so good and he was so patient and understanding with me because babies are not great at interacting with with animals without being grabby and pushy and his babies put everything in their hands and they're still learning how to use their hands and their mouths and that's not good not good. It's not good. Naturally babies and animals don't go together without assistance of parents and very patient and yes and a Lotta supervision. Yes and my my mom's Cat George. He was so good he tolerated me. Just hauling him all around and of course pictures me putting a bonnet on his head up poor cat and he was like okay and then when I got to be four years old. It was the first time he said. Okay. There's boundaries here. Yeah and you're old enough to understand them and we still a great relationship. See they have no? It was a oh. I see. Things didn't go so smoothly are how jake when he was a baby. My youngest brother midnight my oldest cat. Who is still have was younger cat when Jake was born and he also was extremely tolerant of Jake until he was about two or three years old fair. They only problem was that after that point. Jake was kind of like I am scorned by this cat. Oh No I cannot just do what I what me didn't have a best friend relationship from then on. But that's okay because he's my cat and fine art. Cassie what is in the next story that you have for me. Is it something a little bit more nerdy? A little more geek it is. It's super cool though. Okay okay so let me. This one's about parent parents parents parents but Aaron Judge Parrots. They don't have the parent. Okay only parachute okay. Parachutes power any any particular type of parrot in particular. These are the African Grey Parrot. I love African grey. They are so cool there so smarter so smart. If you are going to be that person that has a parrot as a pet. A highly recommended one. Yeah as opposed to you. Know like a macaw right right unless they know what to do with it. Don't get him a call so like you said. African grey parrots are kind of widely considered to be one of the smartest avian species And so this is a story about some scientific research that was done using them. Okay so people had noted before that a lot of animal species beyond humans have kind of an understanding of two different things that go together in interesting ways and one of them is currency so they kind of have the understanding of trading one thing. That doesn't have a lot of value for something. That has a lot more value. Okay so I'm not sure if you ever saw that. That mean that went around about the dog that watched people buying coffee and and cookies at a stand with money and so he found a leaf and went and lined up by his own cookie. I mean yeah. Animals do stuff is actually birds. Do stuff like that. Yeah for sure my dog does. Yeah thing that you taught her but yeah I understand. Yeah I taught her to her in reverse. What do you mean? So like? In in these instances the animal identifies valuable objects that they want yes and they bring something of you know all equal or higher value to be. That's what I want and your dog has the high value object and you have to find you then have higher true. That's very true. She does try to bargain sometimes but usually seems like there's some garbage she wants it and I'm like no you can have that. And then she goes haw shocks. I don't want it DEP- yup okay. So then the other thing that they've observed is that some animals have a really clearly demonstrated regard for other animals in their same species wellbeing. Okay and to the point where they will like make a little bit of a sacrifice for themselves in order to help out another animal and their species whether or not. They're related. Whether or not. They have some kind of like breeding relationship yet. They're just like Dude I have general human and or parrot and or you know animal kindness. Yes exactly and that that stronger. Of course if it's an animal that you know right exactly so in research labs and wild habitats alike. Plenty of animals have been observed giving friends food. Yeah so bonobos. Bonobo monkeys Will will pass morsels of meat to strangers Vampire bats will be so sweet embarked blood into Hungary relatives mouth. Oh so sweet. So sweet canines will tap their snouts to touch screens to to share sausages with their pack. Mates But we hadn't ever observed that particular benevolent behavior in Viet species. Right because birds are a little bit more out for themselves. Because that's that's how they live their social in that like some. Some types of birds will flock together right but they don't necessarily rely on each other for right viral core vid right exactly in which case on the particular species all for one and one for all great where and. Yeah. We've talked about that before. Go back and listen. It was awesome so these two scientists brooks and August von Bayern. Who is an animal behaviorist at the Max Planck Institute for Ornithology in Germany? Fun Right wanted to test the limits of generosity in parrots particularly African grey. If you're going test for something that you don't regularly see you on a pick. The smartest ones yeah exactly totally. Like I'M NOT GONNA PULL. I'm not gonNA pull like a Cockatiel race right. Sorry no offense to cockatiels. They're pretty smart too but yeah they're great but maybe like start off with someone who will pick it up easily. Yeah Yeah So. They set up an experiment that involved the transfer of treats to friends okay so the treats that they gave them were walnuts which are super high valued rates because they're not a part of their regular diet rare. Really good reward right. It's like a cookie. Yeah exactly Oh. Don't say that word so they they're really really really high value and they did this by training. African grey parrots. Oh an six blue headed Macaws. Okay so the macos to To Barter Metal Rings for Walnuts. Okay they basically taught him. Here's this medal ring. If you drop it in this place or you slide it through this thing we'll give you a walnut nice right. So then they put the the parents and clear chambers joined by transfer hole and they gave one bird the donor ten rings and the other was left with none. And they would actually Put these in a neighboring put the birds in neighboring cages. For Awhile so that they would kind of like guilt up a little bit of a relationship like hey neighbor Exactly and so even with out the promise of a reward for themselves. Seven out of eight of the African grey. Parrot donors would pass some of their available tokens through the transfer. Hold to their broke. Friends usually shuttling them from beak to beak. Aw sweet then that one was kind of a jerk. I mean or didn't like the other way. Maybe it was like I'm not going to give my treats to Karen. Now if it was Janet. It'd be different but okay. So on average about half the metal rings made it through allowing the recipients to trade the trinkets for walnuts through another window cool and they're not really sure if it was in spite of the fact that the nuts had such high value or maybe because the nets had such high value right right. That's kind of a hard one to test style. I mean you can do further tests to see if you can replicate the results with a lower value. Treat right but even then you're Kinda just like is this an overall general behavior or is it because they're like man this. I'm just so fortunate that I have to share. Yeah and I really like you so I'm GonNa make sure you get this too. I see you don't have any of it. I want you to have it to. And in some cases they would actually give all ten of their tokens. What yeah those ones are not very smart. Are they the smartest because maybe they got all ten back? Maybe it's a socialist agenda here. Okay so that's that's pretty cool. Isn't that your lucky but still like very uplifting and I'm a big Fan. Yeah I think between you know. We're we're outta halfway point with our with our three different stories and I think now is a good time to kind of shed the light on another fellow. Podcast GONNA pass some of our tokens along. We're going to take some of our listenership and share them except for a little bit different because hopefully you will listen to both podcasts. Because like we said we're encouraging people to stay home to to keep some physical distance between twelve and others but physical distance doesn't have to mean cutting yourself off no really cool experiences and having fun time with your family. Yep LISTENING TO PODCASTS. Is a great way to make sure that you're still getting worse. The world is right and do you can be aware of what other things are going on. And the podcast that we chose to spotlight today again from our lady pod squad promos emissions if you're in your era podcast her a female identifying or neutral identifying podcasters. And you want to be in this group. Please make sure to Upload Your Promo Jazz Air Promo Submission spreadsheet and let. It has a lot of times we pick off there because it's fun. I think it's fun to cold. Call people we get to meet so many new awesome pods that way. I know things that may be outside of genres that we would normally listen or even you would normally listen to get to try something new so today we decided we wanted to pick a podcast. That would help you find even more things to do. Yeah you're hanging out at home and that would be fun and uplifting and not furthering your yes. We Day okay friends. So this week we are sharing with you the Promo from T. and stump. It's a Regency Romance Review. Give it good morning healthy. I've got to tell you about this regency bromance. I just read your finished already. Oh I couldn't put it down. Have you read anything new? Not since you asked me yesterday. That's all right. I'll just find something. I've read before but Zoe haven't you read and reread hundreds of these books. They're my favorites. Far off places daring damsels. True love and Dukes and disguise since we both love these books so much. What if we made a podcast? Oh Kelsey I insist well all right. Let's do it join us. Real life friends in real life romance novel enthusiasts every other week on trumpets a Regency Romance Review as we discussed the book from our favorite genre. And what makes it steamy or tepid and as the regency period technically lasted only nine years. Generally we're talking post wigs but pre telephone. So whether you're looking for a book to add to your to be read pile or you read our choice already. We've got a little something for everyone reading along or just listen in. You can find a son you're pod catcher of choice and new episodes coming every other thirsty. So what do you see the every other week just like us? So that's so cool on a Monday you can get a critter cast episode on a Thursday. You get a t and strummed. That's episode perfect. Is Why not to listen to that. While eating tea and reading about trumpets I honestly like when I clicked on it I was like I don't know what this is but as soon as I understood what they were talking I was like Kassy's GonNa love this podcast and I'm going to be hearing this podcast in the morning when she starts when she presses play when she gets up. I'm the start hearing it because it just felt you know just for you. It sounds really also. It sounds like a really fun relationship between the host. They have good dynamics super down for that. I really like podcast where I can feel like. I'm friends with the hosts. Even if they don't know that they are my friends right like we're just all one big circle of friends exactly exactly high new friends. Yeah thank you for sharing your Promo. We hope that you get some new listeners from it and we hope you continue on in this uplifting and kind of fun lighthearted podcast road work. Oh my gosh. Are you ready for our next story. I'm so ready. I'm loving this break from our norm. But this is. I'm so here for the you know and we will probably end up finding species of animals that we're like okay. We have to do an upright now. We got to talk about African grays more absolutely. Yeah so it's time for me to give my science May. Oh my gosh so my science. Are you surprised again is about lizards? Ah I'M NOT SURPRISED. I like cats. I snakes lizards. What are you GonNa? Don't come at me. I like snails like it's fun. So specifically it is about a couple of different species of a normal. Oh Yeah are fun little. They started out as forest and jungle lizards and are now becoming more and more urban as build into their habitats. Which is what this research is all about. So I found this article. It was shared to science daily Dot Com. Which is where I found it. But it is like a full actual scientific What's the Word Journal Article Journal Article? Peer reviewed and stuff and it is by Shane Campbell. Staten Kristen winchell. Nicolas Rochette Jason for debt in Bar. Mayan and Raina Schweitzer. Oh and Julian Kachin. Lots of lots of people so much fun. Well it takes a lot of people to write a right. Article does most of the quotes from the like the Snapshot. I read whereby Kristen winchell but cool. I'm sure they all had yeah a pretty decent contribution to this article. So what they wanted to look at is that it seemed like they were seeing a lot of a knowles popping up specifically in cities in Puerto. Rico okay because that's where they're from and they see them more and more and the more we build into these urban settings and we have a lot of concrete and a lot of metal the more And you know we have climate change in all that fun stuff. Yeah the more that we see a lot of heat buildup in these areas that were previously forest. You know you had the cover from the trees. And the wizards didn't have to deal with higher temperatures right. But they're also seeing wizards beginning to adapt to be able to maintain all their normal behaviors and survive at extremely high temperatures. Oh just not something that previously were able to do. Wow T- Shen Yong. He's a very rapid adoption. Because Urban Ization Gary Robb and global warming has been very rapidly and they have been able to do what they showed in. This one population study is that the animals were able to maintain normal behaviors even up to forty degrees Celsius which is a hundred and four degrees Fahrenheit. Da like in the broad daylight son. Humans like cancer only with assistance. I cannot do my viewers. You're outside in one hundred and four degree heap without anything to protect. You know down exactly nothing. So they're able to just do this but what's really interesting about? It is that it's only true of lizards that are born within the city and not necessarily lizards that are born in the forest and I great gene expression or something exactly so not all of the individuals of these. I think it was fifteen different species. They observed now all of the different individuals had the genetic ability to express it and even then they could only see it when they were living in this. So right they call it a hidden. Superpower Nice jeans are only expressed in a specific environment which is true of a couple other things but out of times like you express your genes no matter what. That's just how their body is coated can can we make a t shirt that says express her gene? You teens dancer but yeah so that was really cool because previously you know this. This study in particular was published on March ninth in the Nature Ecology and Evolution Journal. So it's a very very new study which yeah. I mean literally like a week old which is Kinda Cool. Cool to kind of be just like up in it. Previously they'd observe the same species of wizards evolving like longer. Lynn's and larger toe pads. Because that's another way to kind of keep yourself right off the heat and help yourself. But literal thermal tolerance is a much more complex super fascinating that they were just able to adapt and evolve within very few generations. Amazing it's fascinating so-called. I did not read the full paper. I only read the article. That kind of like summarize for me willing to it. Yeah if you're interested in reading the full full paper it is available online like. Oh my gosh. That's awesome. Was there so cool? They really are. That's a really really needs a knowles. They're just cute little things and remember an animal thoughts. What that one guy turned into? Oh okay never read and more. The book covers freaked. Me Are you kidding. Me would have loved you know. I couldn't because so many of them were morphing into insects and at the time I just like I know well I know what you need to do with quarantine time you have. No some of us are not getting quarantine from our jobs and some of us can't work from home. Which is you know it's fine. I sure that's true for a lot of people in animal welfare right now. It's true we are on the frontlines as much as healthcare worker. No but or first responders keep dealing with the public though in order to keep those animals safe and cared for exactly and we're trying to think of ways to get our resources out into the communities that if they don't feel okay coming to us and also that we discourage people coming test but we also still need people to come to us to adopt animals so that we don't end up full right but just come into it up that one animal that you already know you want to adopt and then just leave exactly. Don't just come into browse doorknobs like twenty times a day. Nobody perfect why have another happy? Happy Happy Story for you. Excellent okay. It's a little short but it's local to rest Kinda Ish. Okay Yeah such a fun little story. You'd me okay. So this is about an exciting event that happened on January. Eighteenth at the Los Angeles Zoo. Okay it's a girl my little cousins. GonNa love this frozen her favorite. Oh awesome guerillas are so cool. So they had a really big breakthrough and a a new baby. Lowland gorilla was born. Which was the first for them in twenty years because most zoos. Ucla highland girl. That's what critically absolutely so it's really really great that they had this baby. A successful breeding Him or her. Okay well let me let me take you back a little bit. Okay to tell you about the folks so the zoo announced the birth of its first baby gorilla and more than two decades born to critically endangered west. Western lowland gorillas Kelly. The the DAD was thirty. Two and first time Mama Nadia. Nydia Nadia There's a an Apostrophe oh DJ India Javale twenty five years and. She's a first time mom but Kelly. It had multiple babies before and he'd always been a really good playful patient. Dad Oh good and she had been in a group with babies around with mothers around so they knew that she would be able to get it and she'd seen how babies were taking care of right so three weeks after the birth of the baby The zoos animal care was able to confirm that the as of yet unnamed baby gorilla is a girl. Because it's really important to let mom and baby bonds. Ya for a really time that that body to body skin-to-skin contact so they didn't want to even try taking video. I mean because that's the thing about zoos that are responsible. And when the breeding programs you set them up for success you have to set up the breeding a Lotta time because you want to make sure that your breeding healthy animals that are going to thrive and survive but you let them do their thing and that should be off responsible breeders not even in but you let them do what they do best and take care of that and you only intervene when you have to yet. So yeah. Maybe that doesn't maybe that means we don't get adorable photos of newborn gorillas immediately. But if you have a zoom lens maybe we can right right. Yeah exactly yeah. Oh and you know what? I just found out that she has been name. This just came out at the end of February. Her name is very well fit. It's July. What from Los Angeles? Oh my God. Welcome Angela doesn't make any sense where the their names are kind of all over the place in general It also sweets ray too because The way that the the baby was named was that someone who's been a longtime patron of the zoo named the baby after his daughter. Let's guys support the organizations? You love because you know a they can continue doing the lifesaving or impacting or superfund work depending on the organization that you love and support. Maybe one day in the future. You can name a baby gorilla. You don't know my Gosh. Maybe living the dream. Yeah I'm just just maybe amazing where if you support your local shelter. I bet they'll let you name a kitten. There's hundreds yeah totally. That's so fun so while you should not go to the zoo right now because there are large groups of people. Don't know this is right now. You can definitely follow them on instagram. And everywhere else on social media and you'll be able to see pictures of the little baby clinging to its Momma and nursing and serving her surrounding. Yeah I mean you couldn't see her right now anyway so by the time all of this comes down. We're able to get a handle of it. Were able to control the spread of this virus better. It'll be perfect time to go. See Angela Las Angeles County. Oh perfect you know. It'll be so fun so good and for those of you are thinking man you know like I really WanNa get out and do all these fun things. While the weather's nice by the time all days down it's going to be so hot depending on where you live. A lot of places are setting up live feeds hands and virtual tour. They're trying to get people involved and a lot of this. They're offering for free so it's amazing to those if you enjoy it consider making donations to these organizations and zoos and aquariums and we're by GIFT CARDS BY GIFT cards places. Buy Tickets that are you know. You don't expire. Yeah visit later. All all of these things are are really really important for all these businesses that are suffering. So you know your favorite restaurant or your movie passes or anything like that. Make sure to find other ways to support them at this time by the time. This all dies down. You can still go and enjoy them. The big thing is guys. It's a bummer. To miss out on the things that we love to do that involve other people. It's a bummer. To not be able to go shopping you know. We talked in the previous episode. About how cassie and I are both in the process of buying homes and we're not going to Kia and home depot and goods as it is a online shopping thing. You can have a lot of fun online shopping. So true be it will all die down and win. Does all of these things will still be there and the people that we love that might have otherwise. Gotten sick if we hadn't made good choices. Yep We'll also be there to enjoy with us. Yep So this is not a punishment for you. This is something that we're asking everybody to participate in to protect everybody else. It's an investment in our community absolute and honestly if you had told me last year that in twenty twenty I would be spending a bunch of time at home on my couch with my animals. Watch a net flicks being online. I'd be like okay. Sign Right up. Adding I would not have realized the connection. Contact virtual teaching to your resume. I taught online multiple times before but like literally everything. Yeah everything has to be remote an on. It's okay. I'm not stressed at all it's fine. He's okay I I was. I added some new things to my resume. This week. I added Pigeon Wrangler. Yj My resume was we. Will you guys follow us on Social Media Instagram or facebook or twitter? I think I showed it there to. You'll have seen my photo of me with are adoptable pigeon. So the so cute adorable. Let me let you guys know. I did it wrong. I didn't do it. Good the first time I went to grab her. I went in with not enough confidence. Fluttered away from me and then I was like I'm just going to do it. I'm just GONNA grabber. Got a picture of her but then when I was trying to like kind of set her down so that my hands were in the picture. She totally freaked out. Flew away from me all around the room working. What's going on literally? This pigeon flew to the door handle and was like hopping up and down on the door. Handle Open the door. You're not heavy enough to open precious though but I was like. Pigeons ARE SMART. People like to pigeons and movies are always or like you know moving their heads right being very smart but pigeons were literally used in several different wars. Yeah carriers and message takers of important messages. We trusted pigeons with our live. Absolutely and rightfully. So they're very intelligent animals and if you WANNA pigeon in your life check out So-fi at the elk grove animal shelter. Exactly speaking of it's actually time for our petty defense spotlight. He's not an official but we'll plug her too. I picked the animals last episode. Classy do you have a cool animated to spotlight? I have to same organization. John's good so we did dogs same. This time. We're doing cats. Yea these are both from alley. Cats rescue which alley cats A. L. L. E. Y. K. A. T. T. Z. O. And they're in New York New York New York New York New York New York Ohio Town New York New York rain so the first one is bell. She's really really cute. She's mostly white. She's got really light kind of jade green is one way ear. And then she's got some tabby spots all cues doral. She's about five years old. Okay and she's a lap cat. I love a lap cat. She loves her people to she really likes to be with people she likes to. Caudal does not super love being around animals. Okay is there is a little stressed out around. Got Spare girl. But she's very very very friendly and very social with people so she would be wonderful for a home with Kids even and with people who want to have some really good quality time and one pet to really dote on right. So if you're in the New York City area you've been looking around for an animal and you have an animal free home right now and you. WanNa bring one animal in and give all the love and attention you can take a look at bell. She's on PET FINDER DOT COM. I'm very nine her by looking for her through alley cats A. L. L. E. Y. C. A. T. T. K. Eight K. A. Yep that's right we'll post a link to and then the other one. I thought was really good kind of combination with her because she wants to be really in an only one. Animal Home Well this cat booker Would love to be around other animals so book are Oh my. Gosh he's adorable. He's got such a cute faces mostly Black Tuxedo. He's mostly black. He's got a little white patch on his nose. Just runs right up his nose a little bit adorable. And then he's got a white chest little white paws Really Really Classic Tuxedo Very Classic. Yeah he's a medium coat through he's probably really saw a little bit of fluff a little bit of fluff. He likes kids and he loves other CATS LOOK AT THAT. He lived a tough street life. He was a around the town and so he does have his left. Ear tipped because once upon a time he was neutered and put back outside and then he decided outside anymore. Hey I actually would like to live in a house. Yeah I wanNA couch. Give me a couch and EMBIID YEP so. He decided to walk into the first warm home that he could find. His Monster MOMS mez that he is a sweet affectionate playful yet. Really Chill Dude. He's got absolutely gorgeous coat. And is that melt hearts and he would love to come and help warm your lap. That's lovely so from alley and one for one for anybody so if you have other cats and you want a new cat checkout booker. If you don't have any other animals checkout bell yeah excellent stuff and again to restore Kathy's with alley cats so you can contact them to ask about adopting Bhai emailing them at adopt at alley cats. Wait hold on. Let me get the actual right one and just trying to do it from memory. Yeah adopt dot alley cats at gmail.com mail DOT COM. There you go so fun please do adopt them. And if you're not in the New York area and you're looking to adopt pet. Finder is a great resource because you can filter through what type of animal? You're looking for. What characteristics the organization? That animal is with identifies them as having so have a very particular home and you need an animal. That's going to be able to fit in or you looking for an animal of a certain age range right even a dog or cat with a specific breed or coloring though. I don't recommend basing your shirts off that some people have very particular preferences. You can absolutely still find a rescue near you. Big sites like pet finder and adopt a pet dot. Com are really good resources or just visit your local shelter not right now by your local restaurant right now. I mean most shelters are not follow your shelters recommendations because most animal shelters are not shutting down unless they feel like they daily have a lot of crowds follow them on social media. Find an animal. You WanNa go meet and then go briefly adopt and go home. Yeah I mean I know like at our shelter stopping by. Even if you didn't know who you wanted to adopt would probably still be you want to adopt right. Not just browsing. Even if you're just looking we just don't have the crowd so we don't have the worry arrive. Having too many in type and our facility is new. It's kept very clean. Were able to regularly disinfect. You be socially distant yeah exactly and built with Nice white hallways so there's just a lot of space for people to be able to a different shelter facilities so some shelters that no. They regularly have crowd. Were able not observing that six foot recommendation or who just know that their facilities aren't able to be disinfected as regularly are switching to maybe appointment. Only adoptions or you know meeting people out in more open spaces to to view animal so we are still hoping to foster out and adopt out animals in this time but each shelter is GonNa need to accommodate at differently or in order to keep their communities safe so that brings up something that I was thinking about. Which is that if you're stuck home by yourself right now and you're maybe having a little bit of cabin fever. You're feeling like you're not getting a lot of social interaction. It sounds to me like the perfect time to try. Fostering yeah because you're going to be home more than you would be home. Yeah and that's always recommended with a new foster animals. Don't know if they like being home alone or not. If you don't have other animals to occupy you currently you are the ideal a foster home for lots and lots of stress out shelter in out there even if you do have other animals at home a guarantee there's someone out in a shelter. Yeah that would benefit from hanging out on your couch with you. Especially if you're with me to foster a more active animals like dogs or cats. They'll encourage you to still go outside. Going outside is still okay. Yeah just go outside while maintaining your six foot personal bubble well and what a great way to make sure that you're still getting activity and sunlight and vitamin D right. While you're empire this still be a human a human. That enjoys some me time. Yes be an introvert. You an animal loving and even if you even if it's not outside but having a young active cat or a kitten the we're still going to breed when it gets warm. Oh yeah of whether they don't care about you know you can still find yourself being active and just having social interaction because yes it is a one hundred percent true that animals are not at risk of contracting krona virus. Or giving it to you. Awesome the only thing that might be a concern is if they were you know somebody else had corona virus. A human coughed on them did not clean their dog. And then theoretically you came into contact there's a small potential there makes recent studies and research are showing that you're far more likely to contract it by breathing in air particles around setting versus coming into contact. I mean still wash your hand. Which is something he should have been doing. All still sanitize frequently touched surfaces. Which is again something you should be doing all along. Yes but your risk of contracting it from foster animal is extremely low and what a gateway to lighten up your days. Yeah also to add some volume to those zoom meetings. That you'll be having your it depends on your job and whether or not they're going to enjoy you know puppies crying. We're very excited to see a cat pop up in my zoom video sometimes multiple cats buying your license cute cute. Get Out of my way like stomach. Yeah so that's that's the critter. Cast take on the world right now. You guys know. We like to take sometimes saddened disheartening news and try and find the good parts in it. Yes I wouldn't necessarily consider. Cassie or myself unrelenting optimists. I think we have a really good take. That it's a real world and this is a serious problem right but we don't have to let it take us down and we don't have to let it stop everything about our lives. We can be resilient. We can still participate in the world as human beings. We can have have to do some self care routines brainless difficult time right. Yeah I just have to do so in a way that keeps others. Say So. Please remember with this whole social distancing and self isolation and self quarantining that. This is not something you do for yourself. Some people do it for themselves into camps L. Safe but regardless of whatever level of concerned. You are about yourself. This is something that we do for everyone. Because it doesn't matter whether it's your parent or your grandparent or your neighbor or your friend or literally a complete stranger. Yes we should value everybody the same way one hundred percent absolutely be kind to all critter including the human human this episode alone so. I have an idea that I think would be Super Super Super Fun. There's lots of kids stuck home right now and some schools gave work to work on at home right but some schools were able to tie. They didn't totally understandable right. Well I think it would be so fine. If you'RE A KIDDO. Who's listening to this podcast or you have a Kiddo in your life I think you should have them do something about animals to share with us. Have him drop picture about their favorite animal or do a short little video about? They're telling us about their favorite animal. Cool animal fact. Yeah share it with us on any worse social media pages we put together an awesome compilation. Yeah and then. We'd love to send that Kiddo. A sticker yacht should be fun as sticker of any critter cast crew member of their choosing. Yeah so we officially have lovely artwork by our friend Zara who marked by Zara for every single one of our resident critters that are part of the critter cast crew both the reptiles and the mammals. And we are going to do another reorder sticker so of their choosing whether they're a fan of poppy or basil or midnight or actually you know what we don't have yet. No no we need a bug okay. In general if they're fans of any of them they can choose a sticker of their choosing. Fun It'll be a lot of a little be. It'll be great. Yeah so that's is doing little tiny bit of research and they can be many here that really critter catheters. Many casters mini theaters. So Fun in the meantime if you're looking for more critter cast podcast content so much more. Oh my Gosh cassie. Where can they find us? They can find all of our older episodes anywhere. You listen to podcasts including spotify back all of our episodes our backup streaming on spotify. Thank you folks that blueberry are hosting site for getting that sorted out. Yup that was frustrating. But we're back. And all of our episodes past Lake Episode Number Twenty three. I think are kid friendly. Feel free to listen in the car with your Kiddos or not in the car at home well on your Amazon Alexa. Popcorn drawing pictures of your home. Yes all the fun things. All the fun things. you can also find us on. Youtube. Maybe you want to watch some cool videos about critter. Cats can watch some of our meet the critters videos. You can watch our reptile Expo Law. So Fun Yeah. Those are critter casts on Youtube. Where else can they find us? They can find us at our website. Resource CRITTER CASTS PODCASTS DOT COM. You can find us all episodes are on there. Of course you can subscribe to our episodes right there on our website. You can also find our merchandise shop on red bubble. You can find some resources on how to help animals right now. All the Info on there is still specifically about Australian animals. And how to help them? Because you know s efforts go. Long past when the fires put out You can also resources on reptiles aided in owning your own critter. Yeah you can find some resources on who pick. And once you've picked one of those beginner ones that we'd recommend date how to set them up for success with our sheets so lots of cool things hanging out on our website critter cast podcast dot com. Or You can follow us on that standard social media. You wouldn't follow us on facebook at critter cast on Instagram at critter. Podcast and on twitter at cast critter. That's rate or the dentist of animal. Means the most recent of cool animal articles. Guess and the random pictures of critters we meet in our daily lives. Yes some of them are pigeons. Some of them are snails congregating. For whatever reason they were congregating for them are cannibals snails right. Some of them are our own resident. Critters out of them are owned resident. Chris just enjoy yeah. It's good stuff. You can always email us too if there's something you wanNA share with us or if you want us to talk about a particular critter that we haven't talked about yet. Email us at critic has podcasts at G MAIL DOT COM. We're always happy to hear from you literally in any way. Yes you'll leave us reviews to tell us what you like about the show. Shout out to our to our reviewer on facebook such a fun time we really appreciated your just kind of out of the Blue Review. It was so sweet so super shoutout to loading assured noting loading loading loading reviews there. Go I feel like I'm Cynthia. Cynthia Feazel was right. Thank you that was so sweet we love that. Yes so thank you for listening and if you've done all of that we've done some of that but you're like This isn't a one hundred percent. Crooner cast content and came for well maybe hop on over to Patriot dot com slash podcast and check us out on Patriots. So that's a place where are just extra super critter? Casts fanatics can go for super special content in exchange for their support of the podcast. You can support our podcast for many ways. You know freeways like listening to US reviewing telling a friend just enjoying showing us on social media. That's a completely free to support our podcast. If you're looking to give a little bit of money to support the podcast like for new equipment studio stuff excursions out to reptile shows and booths to you know put our outreach out there stickers and merchandise and all that fun stuff you can donate as low as one dollars a month all the way up to. I don't know however crazy you wanna get per month. Yeah and get access to additional content. I access to photo shoots and stickers and merchandise that we are working hard to be more and more active on Patriots on speaking of our next Patriot episode instead of being about a magical creature which is our normal patriot episodes once a month magical creatures this Fund Patriots special for the month of March. It'd be all about how to move because that's eight right now smell experience but also research. Yes yes so. So enjoy that hop on over to Patriot dot com slash critter. Cast if you're interested in listening to that episode or an episode fully about dragons or an episode holy about UNICORNS war existing Patriot words fully about a lake monster. Arrange that one to tahoe tessie ridiculous. All right well thank you guys so much for tuning into critter cast today once again. I am your co host Corinna. I'm your co host. Cassie and we love you all. We love you guys. We just know that our critter cast listeners are the type of people who are proactively social distancing because they care about yet everyone and they are washing their hands. For Twenty seconds well belting out Joe Lean or whatever show tune or other assorted song you would like also I read a graphic that you can probably state the entire opening monologue of law and order. Svu about twenty seconds as well. Don't done so you're just one of those people we thank you guys for tuning in and we will see you next episode or here you or you will hear us next episode on critter cast see you later alligator after while crocodile cast podcast.

Cassie facebook New York Australia Patsy Ramsey Corinna Corinna Stephen jake twitter Canberra Victoria Kristen winchell US SCIENC wizards researcher spotify Obser Sonny
JonBenet Ramsey Short Case Version!

OWL Once Was Lost Podcast

16:34 min | 2 months ago

JonBenet Ramsey Short Case Version!

"Thursday welcome to the owl once was lost podcast. He Companion podcast to the owl once was lost phone application for missing persons wage. They want to thank our new patreon supporters who have decided to help out the cause downloading the owl once was lost phone app for both IOS and Android as well as subscribing to the podcast wage. Both of these links are also in our show notes. The purpose of this episode is to give a just a much more simple dive into the Ramsey case. The previous four episodes are filled with small details for those that enjoy that kind of information for those not familiar with the case. You're going to find that this is a much much more refreshing version. Even I found the long version filled with many friends of the family as well as business partners. A lot of the detectives just a lot that you had to follow there. And of course you've got family of the business park. As well, mr. Ramsey and it was just a bit tedious but it is a complicated case. So, please enjoy this shortened version of the Jon Benet Ramsey case. Please page five stars for us. If you haven't done that yet. If you indeed enjoyed the episodes and especially us going this extra mile to give you the more simplified version of exactly what happened in this case wage and along obviously with a couple of theories and who knows maybe one of you has a theory or knows even what happened and you can always reach us at the once was lost podcast at gmail.com. So let's just get right into the case. If you even so much as looked at a US Weekly in the grocery store checkout counter in the last twenty-five years or more. You probably know who Jon Benet Ramsey is the six year old beauty queens mysterious murder has been tabloid fodder for as long as Millennials can remember but beyond the made-up glamour shots in the basic details, how much do you really know about the case of JonBenet because it is probably weirder than you ever imagined. Jon Benet Ramsey was a six year old beauty queen. Six year old Jon Benet lived with her family in Boulder, Colorado her mother Patsy her Father John and her older brother Burke. He was nine at the time of the murder on Christmas night 1596. The ramseys hosted a party at their house in Boulder Colorado the ramseys put Jon Benet to bed at around 9 p.m. The next morning at 5 a.m. Patsy Ramsey woke to find a three-page ransom note on the stairs the note claimed that someone had kidnapped Jon Benet, of course, the police were called. Jon Benet was missing and according to the ransom note or parents would need to pay $118,000 for her safe return just a very strange amount. Just why does it have to be 818 thousand exactly the note stated that the kidnappers were going to call between 8 a.m. And 10 a.m. With instructions for how to drop off the money. Whoever wrote The Ransom note. I never did call the family in the cops waited, but no call came sometime after the ransom call Window the cops asked the ramseys to check the house again for anything that was missing or out of place that they could use as evidence John was the one that actually discovered Jon Benet during this search John and a friend immediately went to investigate the basement after the cops asked them to scan the house a few minutes later. John came up the stairs carrying the body of JonBenet. He had found her in a back room in the basement. Jon Benet had died from both blunt-force trauma and also strangulation wage. Her body also showed signs of sexual abuse. The ramseys murder had a lot of really weird elements to it. So we're going to find out what the rest of those are our while. There are a lot of theories that case still hasn't been solved. Many people suspect that the ramseys themselves killed their daughter others think that a sexual predator broke into the ramseys home and killed JonBenet but there are definitely a lot of other weird details about the case that nobody can explain the ransom note wasn't even typical of a ransom note according to the police the ransom note. The ramseys found was very unusual. First of all, it was only three pages long or we could say it was three pages long that it was a very long note. That's really really long for a ransom note compared to most others. So what more do you really need to save sides? We have your daughter and you know, how much money do we want apparently a lot. So there was a lot of other additional details, they're spread out over those three pages The Ransom note was incredibly he's a d going on for those three pages about who the kidnappers were what they were going to do with Jon Benet and other strange Superfluous information the note ask for exactly $118,000. As I mentioned earlier for Jon Benet safe return which was a significant number to John Ramsey 118,000 sounds pretty random. Why not ask for a nice round two hundred thousand. But this phone number may have been precise for a reason. It was almost the exact same amount of money. John Ramsey had received as a Christmas bonus earlier in the month, which could mean one of two things either the kidnappers new John had received this amount of money as a bonus and that he would have it or John wrote the note himself trying to make it appear that someone who knew his bonus amount was the kidnapper the note all she used very strange language. The long rants have no claim to be from a very small foreign faction. What exactly is a small Ford faction, right? Nobody is quite sure. It also keeps saying that the kidnappers would be head. Jon Benet, if the money wasn't given to them in a brown paper bag after what they described would be an exhausting delivery for John it ended with a strange dog. Turn off of Victory. It is an all-around weird note because of its strange language and we're demands some people think the note was fake. But the weirdest thing about the note is on the next page. It came from inside the house. The police were able to determine that the note was written on paper that came from the ramseys house itself, which means If there really was a kidnapper they would have found that at the idea to break into the house kidnap Jon Benet and hand write a three-page long Ransom note all while the family slept. It seems a little risky to come to a kidnapping without a note prepared by with the kidnapper take the time to write three entire pages and risk getting caught the weirdest part of the kidnapping was that there was no kidnapping. Jon Benet was discovered in the basement after several hours. Apparently the police hadn't searched the house thoroughly enough to discover her body until hours after they recalled in the basement were job was found. There was a broken window and a footprint on a Suitcase underneath that window. It's possible if there was an intruder this is how they got in. However, there were no footprints in the foot of snow outside the ramseys house and there was a spider web across the window that was undisturbed. If someone had broken in through that window that spiderweb likely would have been broken John Ramsey claimed that he accidentally broke this window before the murder. But where did the footprint come from? Was it a badly done set up by John to make it appear that someone had broken in did somebody really break in through the window or was it all just college students in a weird thing about that suitcase? The ramseys claimed that it wasn't theirs and they didn't know how it got into the basement. The suitcase was examined by police and it was found to contain see Minaj. I said blanket and a dr. Seuss book, but that's not the weirdest part the semen belong to another family member John's oldest son from a previous marriage. He didn't live with the ramseys though, but the the lease for able to to prove he wasn't in Boulder at the time of the murder, but a lot of people think differently about this and that a different family member was responsible. So let's find out some people leave that Burke the sun actually killed JonBenet by accident and his parents help cover it up, but there are some flaws to this Theory. The theory is that per could kill the Sister by accident perhaps by accident hitting her over the head with something heavy or hitting her and anger and then his parents wrote the note and tied Jon Benet up in a basement to make it look like a kidnapping but Jon Benet died of both blunt force trauma to her head and strangulation. She was found tied up with a cord around her neck and it was shown through autopsy that she was still alive when this was happened when she was actually strangled if Burke had accidentally killed his sister. Why would she have been both beaten and strangled? Jon Benet also had pineapple in her stomach the autopsy revealed that Jon Benet had chunks of pineapple in her stomach when she died in Ramsay's Kitchen a bowl of pineapple with Burke's fingerprints on it was discovered often. Does this mean some people think it's possible that an argument over the pineapple cause Burke to actually attach. Jon Benet Burke had displayed Disturbing Behavior in the past before dead. So there are rumors which Burke denies that Burke had smeared feces on the walls of his sister's room and in her bed, it's possible that Jon Benet was being sexually abused dog. She was found with a drop of blood in her underwear and some signs that she may have suffered sexual abuse in the past. Her mother had taken her to the doctor for a vaginal irritation in the past but claimed it was from a bubble bath her body shown his strange marking that looked like it could have been from a stun gun as well on her back. Jon Benet had two small dots that looked like they could have, exactly from how it's done. God be used on a person. So the nine-one-one call was also very suspicious. The ramseys were cleared of the crime by DNA evidence, but the crime scene was completely contamination. So it's hard to make any real conclusions out of this. There was DNA found on Jon benet's underwear that couldn't be matched to anyone in the family as well. But it also couldn't be matched to anyone in the police dog. Pays so who is this DNA from it's not clear at DNA Specialists argued that it could have come from the factory where the underwear was made though. I'd find that to be highly improbable besides the mysterious DNA the crime scene was completely contaminated since the ramseys and their friends were in the house all day before the body was found and according to the investigator of the ramseys am very strangely all day while they waited for the phone call from the kidnappers before they found the body jonbenet's parents barely stayed in the same room with each other. They also didn't even mention that the kidnappers never called. The police and the family waited for hours for the kidnappers to call between 8 a.m. And 10 a.m. As indicated by the note, but nobody did according to the investigator on the scene. Nobody mentioned that the wage would past which she found odd the nine-eleven call had some very strange elements to it when Patsy called 911 to report her daughter missing. She used some pretty strange language. She said we have a kidnapping when she explains why she is calling this type of passive language. We have a kidnapping verse. My daughter has been kidnapped has been linked to lying down. C also didn't even mention Jon Benet until a few sentences into the nine-eleven call. She talked about the kidnapping and the note but not that her daughter had was gone at all. This doesn't necessarily mean anything but you would think that the first thing you would tell the nine-eleven operator if you woke up to find your six year old daughter missing was that your six-year-old daughter was missing. That's where you would say Patsy a month. Even hung up on the 911 call Patsy was the one who ended that call. This is not typical usually people stay on the line with 911 until police get there or until they know for sure that the police going to get there soon pass. He didn't wait long on the line to get additional details or two here if the police were on their way she hung up. So abruptly the nine-one-one operator asked if she was a guy there but who else besides the family could have killed her. So although many people suspect the ramseys a few other suspects in the case of being considered unsurprisingly. None of them seem to fit back from whatever small foreign faction is I mean, what is this for for an faction once best suspect I'm sorry was a man who dressed as Santa Claus and asked his wife to mix his ashes with a vial of glitter from Jon Benet, which had been given to him when he died. I find that to be very strange. Obviously, Jon Benet knew this guy Bill McReynolds from Christmas parties where he often dressed up as Santa dead. She had given him a glass jar of Jitter one glitter one year, which he took with him into heart surgery and asked to be mixed with his ashes but beyond This creepy Behavior towards Jon Benet. There isn't a ton of evidence that he could have killed her. He is now deceased and no word of his cremation or the glittery substance has been talked about since a known sex offender claim to have heard a little girl the night of Jon benet's murder Gary Oliva Olivia. I'm sorry was the sex offender who lived near Jon Benet. He called a friend the night of the murder upset claiming. He had heard a small girl. Strangely. He also was found with the same stun gun marks on his body that Jon Benet had that is strange a school teacher actually confessed to the murder as well. But was later found to be lying find those cases so strange, but they happen quite often of people admitting to to murder cases. It happens much more often than people think the school teacher named John Mark Karr reached out to a prestige. Sure, who is making a documentary about Jon Benet and told them that he was the one who had killed her after sexually abusing her but police were able to prove that car wasn't even in Boulder at the time of her murder and just wants the fame which is truly disgusting. Some people think that Katy Perry is JonBenet Ramsey, which is even stranger. This one is kind of silly though. There are rumors on the internet Katy Perry is actually a grown-up Jon Benet and that the murder never happened. This basically makes no sense because why would you fake a murder only do then have your daughter reappear as an international Superstar? Ten years later. Also Katy Perry is ten years older than Jon Benet. So anyways, we're going to leave that at that so that ends at I hope that was just a much simpler version for everybody to go through and hear the different suspects and it you know, if you ask me the ramseys acted extremely suspicious through this entire matter and The Sun Also birth. Or they get found some of his, you know DNA and he had also showed other signs of acting strangely at that time that you know, allegedly. He is the one I most people think had some kind of problem with his little sister and probably accidentally hurt her but as far as the sexual abuse again, you know that could come from anywhere with these little girls that are going to these these pageants. I don't want to say anything bad. I'm sure a lot of them are very Innocent. But again these ages are so young. I don't even know what to say about it can be honest with you. So please hit the five stars for us. So they make sure that those algorithms or pushing in our favor and that people can find the podcast and make sure and subscribe. Also, please may you do anything just please get the phone app get the album once was lost missing phone app on iOS or an Android God forbid the worst happens someone in your family goes missing. You can upload that information immediately and people within your area. We start within a 40-yard 40 from sorry 40 mile radius and re able to search within that first crucial hour and wage that's going to end it. Thank you guys, and we'll talk to you next week.

Jon Benet Jon Benet Ramsey Jon Benet Burke murder John Mark Karr kidnapping Patsy Ramsey JonBenet Ramsey ramseys house JonBenet Boulder ramseys Ramsey Katy Perry US Weekly patreon
JonBenet Ramsey ////// Little Miss Christmas

True Crime Garage

56:27 min | 1 year ago

JonBenet Ramsey ////// Little Miss Christmas

"Entered oozing the Jeffrey Epstein new. A new podcast from CNN hosted by Vicki Ward. The seven episode series takes you behind the scenes to hear one of of a kind account of Epstein and individual. Who's more myth than man Vicky Ward has been reporting on Jeffrey Epstein for almost two decades and takes listeners beyond the headlines to explore Jeffrey Epstein really was where he got his money and the circumstances surrounding his death subscribed to the Jeffrey Epstein? I knew wherever you get your podcast from Sky Dance. Interactive comes the new podcast series which serves as a prologue to the studios upcoming VR title. The walking dead saints and Sinners supernatural skeptics. Guy To New Orleans and follow. Sarah Bennett the host of a local radio series investigating New Orleans most popular paranormal tales as she uncovers the surge of walkers taking over the city and becomes trapped in one a New Orleans. Most notorious Torius landmarks the Laroche House supernatural skeptics. Guide to New Orleans available on Apple. PODCAST spotify Stitcher Iheartradio you tune in plus Alexa or at Vr. Walking Dead Dot Com Jon Benet Ramsey was strangled with a little Miss Colorado Jon benet Ramsey unknown intruder robin the Ramsey interview. The parents. John Ramsden did anybody more than fund out to with responsible. It would be very few little girls as famous as blond six year year. Old Jon Benet Patricia Ramsey. She was born in Atlanta Georgia on August. Sixth Nineteen Ninety two parents. Jon Benet Ramsey and Patricia Ann. Dan Ramsey her name is unique as it was was a combination of her father's first and middle names. Her Father John was a wealthy businessman and her mother. Patsy was a former beauty queen. John Ramsey was a smart calculated and determined man. He graduated from Michigan State University in Nineteen Sixty thirty six with an electrical engineering degree. Five years later a masters in Business Administration from MSU. John was married before before he and his first wife had three children. Elizabeth Melinda and John Andrew but the to divorce in one thousand nine hundred seventy eight on November fifth nineteen eighty he married. What many considered to be the woman of his dreams twenty-three-year-old Patricia and Paul Yup better known as Patsy? Patsy attended West Virginia University and graduated with a BA in journalism and nineteen seventy eight just a year before four. She won the Miss West Virginia beauty title in Nineteen Seventy seven on January twenty seventh nineteen eighty-seven Patsy gave birth to the couple's pulls first child Burke Ramsey then three and a half years later they welcomed their second child. Jon Benet in Nineteen Ninety one one. The family moved to Boulder Colorado for John's business access graphics. A little background here. John was extremely hard working and driven. He was an entrepreneur. He started a computer company in the eighties. Eventually his company and two other companies merged nineteen eighty-eight this formed access this graphics the company was then sold to Lockheed Martin in Nineteen ninety-one John became the chief executive officer and president went up access graphics thus sparking the family to set up shop and Beautiful Boulder Colorado the ramseys purchased a seven thousand square foot. Home the address. Seven fifty five Fifteenth Street Boulder Colorado. The home was purchased for five hundred thousand dollars. Some reports state eight. The home is eleven thousand square feet. But I believe that would include. Maybe the basement balconies and other areas. We all know how the real estate listing game works they also did a very extensive renovation on the property as well speaking of which I will do my best impression. Here it's a beautiful. Red Brick Tudor style home built in nineteen twenty seven. There are four floors including the basement. The basement is made up of a series of small rooms the home it features two staircases one traditional and one spiral there are five bedrooms burke and John Benes rooms are located on the second second story. Job As room is complete with its own bathroom and balcony. The master suite is above the children's rooms located on the third story. The ramseys Patsy in particular loved this House. The ramseys were riding pretty high but unfortunately life is often a series of peaks and valleys sadly on January Eighth Nineteen ninety-two John Ramsey's oldest daughter. From his first marriage Elizabeth Ramsay was killed in an automobile automobile accident in Chicago Illinois. She was just twenty two years old on December twenty third nineteen ninety-two. The ramseys purchased a one thousand seven hundred in thirty one square foot vacation home in Charlevoix Michigan for three hundred and thirty six thousand dollars for those unfamiliar. This is an absolutely a beautiful area. Northern Michigan right along Lake Michigan absolutely gorgeous in June of ninety three. Patsy Ramsey is diagnosed with breast cancer. Sir For this. She will receive exams at the Charlevoix Community Hospital and treatments in Maryland. Now we're going to go through a pretty thorough timeline for for the Ramsey family. Some of these events may seem trivial however given the crime that we know is going to occur these items were included in this time. Line line because of the possibilities and the suspicions surrounding this case in Nineteen ninety-four seven-year-old Burke hits his little sister Zhabei on the cheek with a golf club. Well let's be clear. This is not a situation where burke decided. I don't like you and I'm going to smash smashing the face with a golf club. This was purely an accident. This wasn't like the time my brother hit me in the back with a baseball bat because he was trying to kill me. I questioned this at first glance because we do know that children siblings will fight with one another and they can be quite vicious dishes at times plus when they're very young as they would be in this situation. It's an impulsive thing to pick up a club and hit your sister your brother other with because they did something mean to you. I am burke only being seven years old. He won't be thinking if I hit her in the face with a golf club. I could possibly kill her right. This could have lasting consequences however everything that we could find only indicates that this was just an accident accident and believe it or not in my own life. I've experienced a situation where one of my friends accidentally hit another friend in the the face with a golf club and the vase on the back swing because the person was standing too close as the other person was taking swing. We don't have the details of of this specific accident however again everything indicates that it was just that an accident right but it was pretty vicious. Because Jon benet would be left with scar a short time later. Johnny underwent plastic surgery at a surgeon in Denver this to correct that scar on the left cheek from from the golf club. Incident and December of nineteen ninety four. The ramseys giant beautiful home is one of just seven homes in the area to be included in the historic homes for the holidays tour. This is important for a few reasons mainly this means that approximately fifteen hundred people will participate dissipate in a tour of the ramseys property and the house in April of one thousand nine hundred five four year old Jon Benet Ramsey wins the Colorado auto state all star. Kids paget out. She will participate and win several pageants. I'm not going to go through all of them captain. Frankly when research searched well you get a bunch of different information so I will just stick to the ones that I can confirm. or at least have double-checked October of Nineteen ninety-five was a happy and exciting month. For the Ramsey family. Jon Benet was crowned Little Miss Colorado Sunburst and John Ramsay was the winner of the Entrepreneur of distinction award but to be clear. I don't think like her whole family was revolved around her winning something. I think it was nice. When she wan- they devoted a lot of time doing it but I don't think it made the families year if she got some award regarding John Ramsey's he's business keep in mind? Access graphics is doing very well in the company is growing in sales and staff quite rapidly. Then it was patsies turned to receive some recognition. This came when the April nineteen ninety-six issue of Women's magazine Profiled Patsy Ramsey this article of course will include a lot of her personal information but also a lot of personal information about John and the kids then in July of Nineteen ninety-six. Jon Benet one. America's royal tiny miss the following month. She finishes second and the the Sunburst National Pageant. This pageant was held in Atlanta Georgia. On Saturday November thirtieth John Ramsey host host a surprise fortieth birthday party for his wife of sixteen years and this is truly a surprise as her actual birthday is not until December twenty ninth. This was a big fortieth birthday celebration for Patsy held at the Palace Hotel in Denver is laws speculation though that she was not looking forward to this time and was actually very upset about turning forty then on December six during the lights of December parade. Jon Tape appeared on her own little Miss Colorado float. This is an annual parade where spectators enjoy floats created and decorated by local businesses churches and civic groups. The parade often includes marching bands fire engines holiday carolers and an appearance by Santa Claus. This takes place in downtown. Boulder in Nineteen ninety-six Burke was in this parade as well on Friday December thirteenth. There is is a big holiday party at the Ramsey home. This is attended by more than one hundred and fifty of their friends from Church so again just pointing out another event then at their house with a lot of guest so what we are quickly learning is this is a house that has many people who have been in and is often opened up too many guests over just the few years that they have owned the home. Four days later on the seventeenth the six year old was crowned Colorado's. Those little Miss Christmas. This is one of the larger pageants. She has participated in and certainly in achieving moment and and in hindsight really kind of just an eerie weird thing. The job in a would be named the nineteen ninety-six Little Miss Christmas. Now we don't have a date but I want to make sure that we include this here. There's a report that this took place some time. In December uh of ninety six and this comes from a statement to law enforcement at some time. In December. Jon Benet tells a gardener. This is Brian Brian Scott about her father John Ramsey. She says I really Miss Him and I wish he was around more. Yeah he's working pretty hard probably probably traveling a lot and later reported that his net worth at this time would be roughly six point. Four Million Dollars December twentieth was a busy day for the ramseys on two fronts. One access graphics had a luncheon party and a celebration for more than three hundred employees at the Hotel Bowl Dorado and to to. Jon Benet participates in a school performance at high peaks. Elementary School patsy attends the performance the access graphics luncheon and the performance at the school are going on at the same time so patsy is not present for the business celebration because she is at the school. Now it's important to keep in mind mind that one of these events could be tied to job in as death for any number of reasons truth be told none of us really know for sure. Here's an excerpt excerpt from the book death of innocence authored by John and Patsy Ramsey in the book John says early in December nineteen ninety-six. Tom Carson Zain came to my office. John I want you to look at these figures. I looked up at him standing at the door with a handful of papers as best as I can tell. We're going to hit the billion dollar sales mark and a couple of days. It's a big milestone a billion dollars. My mouth dropped. I know we. We're close but I didn't think we were there yet. It's on top of US smile. Probably in a couple of days. I think we should do something to celebrate right. I agreed if for no other reason than to congratulate our employees. A billion dollars in sales and six hundred employees worldwide wide was a big milestone for access graphics. One of our public relations. People thought we should also contact the newspaper to announce our success success. I had a gut reaction that the press release wasn't a good idea. I didn't want that kind of visibility outside of the business still I agreed since our employees deserved the recognition. Now I wonder if this publicity might have attracted the attention attention of the killer or further irritated the person if he or she had a grudge against big business access graphics or me note note. John's memory of this party in the book states that the luncheon was held on December sixteenth. According to the Daily Camera Business Magazine this celebration was held on December twentieth. John did a phone interview regarding the company's success and on December twenty first the daily Camera Business Magazine publishes pushes the article on axs graphics reaching one billion dollars in sales. All right. So why are we going with semper. Twentieth and not December sixteenth. That's a good question. We have a couple of reasons for that one. We know that the luncheon and the school performance occurred on the same day. We have statements saying that the performance the school performance was on the twentieth and we also have the fact that the daily camera business magazine article all comes out that same year. I mean just the day after the party. John's book does not come out until years later. And he's going off of memory on December somber twenty-second Jon. Benet Ramsey is going to be in a beauty pageant and the Southwest Plaza Mall. This is the one that she sings rocking around the Christmas tree and and she has a toy saxophone sometime. In late December the Ramsey family sent out their annual Christmas card with the Ramsey family updates. It's for their loved ones. The nineteen ninety-six Christmas newsletter. Reads as follows. Do your friends and family. It's been in another busy year at the Ramsey household. Can't believe it's almost over and time to start again. Melinda twenty four graduated from Medical College of Georgia and is working and pediatric ICU. Kenny Stone Hospital in Atlanta John John Andrew Twenty Sophomore at the University of Colorado. Burke is busy fourth grader where he really shines minds in math and spelling. He played flag football. This fall and is currently on a basketball bench. His Little League team was number one. He's lost just about all of his baby teeth so I'm sure we'll be seeing the orthodontist in nineteen ninety seven Jon. Benet is enjoying her first first year in real school. Kindergarten in the core knowledge program is fast paced and five full days a week. She has already been moved ahead Ed. To first grade math she continues to enjoy participating in talent and modeling pageants. She was named America's royal tiny missed last summer. DUMBER and is Colorado's little Miss Christmas. Her teacher says she is so outgoing that she will never have trouble delivering an oral a book report Jon is always on the go. Traveling hither and Yon Access recently celebrated its one billion dollar mark in sales. So He's pretty happy he and his crew were underway in the Port Huron to mackinac island yacht race in July for had to pull out midway due to lack of wind. Can you believe that. But his real love is the new old looking boat grand season which he spent months designing. I spend most of my free time working in the school and doing volunteer work. The charlevoix house was on the home. Tour in July will likely appear in one of the better homes and gardens publications in Nineteen ninety-seven on a recent trip to NYC my friend and I appeared among the throng of fans on the today show at roker and Brian actually talked to us. We were on camera camera for a few fleeting moments. We are all enjoying continued. Good health and look forward to seeing you in Nineteen ninety-seven one final note. Thank you to all of my friends and my dear husband for surprising me with the biggest most outrageous fortieth birthday bash. I've ever had. We'll be spending my actual birthday on the Disney big red boat over the new year. Merry Christmas much. Love the rams I I kind of find this whole ritual that people do with the updating of the families kind of Dushi. Well I feel like this is a very upper class. Typical holiday thing update everybody with a newsletter. I've never and probably will never experience having to put one of these letters together. Yeah being just a regular blue collar guy myself. What jumps out to me? Is that episode of everybody. Loves Raymond where they write a bunch of really nice stuff about themselves. That's not true but here everything that patsy. I'm assuming patsy puts us together as it sounds you know she says spend most of my free time it really points due to her upbringing and how polished and Pau she really is. Yeah and I everything that she has put here is true true. And it's just it's just interesting to see how the other half lives Wa does. Seems like they should get into their deuce canoe and paddle down Vanity River. I've never lived far from family and friends. So maybe this is more common than what I am aware of on December twenty third. This is just two days as before Christmas. The ramseys hosted a Christmas party with approximately thirty guests attending and with former journalism. Professor Bill mcreynolds adults. Playing Santa Claus. mcreynolds was a Ramsey family friend. Probably one of the more alarming details in this timeline during the Ramsey's Christmas party at six forty seven. PM someone attending the Party placed a nine one one call which was answered by police dispatcher. Therese Hillary the caller hung up without saying anything police called back but when they did no one answered and the call all was picked up by the ramseys answering machine because of this an officer goes to the home at six fifty four pm the officer knocks on the door and is invited in and then leaves it seven Oh nine. PM This after being assured that there was no emergency. This has made people. Speculate was the perpetrator of this crime at this party and calling nine one one to see how fast somebody would respond to nine one one call. This is one of those items that you you look at it and you just go. What is going on here because as you pointed out it could mean something very big to this case and to the investigation right if in fact what you said? And what people have speculated toward is is true that means the killer is at this party but with somebody that worked with the killer is at this party right but you also have a lot of kids running around. Is it possible that one of them just picked up the phone and dialed nine one one and the never confessed to it because they don't WanNa get in trouble. There is a guest list that you can find online. I have reviewed it myself. Don't care to go into it here as it sounds quite boring to just read off a list of names. The other thing I question though to captain is what kind of staff was working this party. Would we have had people helping out whether it be caterers or for somebody answering the door. Valeting cars you know so it could extend beyond the guest list for whoever called nine one one. I'm with you I. I think that there's a very likely possibility that with all these kids running around one of the older kids wants to do something funny in front of the younger kids us and calls nine one one. You know get scared and hangs up one. There's two other things. Some people have nine one one on speed. Dial so you have people working party hardy. Did somebody pick up the phone to call. This is nineteen ninety six. They don't have cell phones. Most people don't have cell phone. So did somebody working the party go to make a call. Aw hit the wrong button and it speed dialed nine one one. That's something I couldn't find information from on the Internet. The other thing too one of my hi speculations. And we'll have to get into this later. Is it possible that Little Jon Benet Ramsey herself called nine one one because because something happened at that part. There's something interfering with your happiness or preventing you from achieving your goals better help online. Counseling can help better. Help offers offers licensed professional counselors who specialize in issues such as depression anxiety relationships trauma anger family conflicts. LGBT matters matters grief self esteem and more connect with your professional counselor that saving private online environment. Get help at your own time in at your own pace anything and that you share is completely confidential. And it's so convenient you can schedule secure video or phone sections as well as chat and text with your therapist. If for some reason you're not happy. Be With her counselor there. You can request a new one anytime for no additional charge. Best of all. It's a truly affordable option. Our listeners even get ten percent off your first month with a discount code garage so why not get started today go to better help dot com slash garage than simply fill out a questionnaire to help them. Assess your needs it match with the counselor. You'll love that's better help dot com slash Karaj. No need to interrupt your workday or fight traffic to get to the post office anything that you can due at the post office she can do at stamps. Dot Com whether you're a small office sending invoices or even a warehouse sending thousands of packages a day. You'll love love stamps. Dot Com simply. Use Your computer to print official. US postage twenty four seven for any letter N. e. package any class of male anywhere. You you want to send it once your meals ready. Just hand it to your mail carrier or drop it in the mailbox was dams dot com. You also get five cents off every first class class stamp and up to forty percent off priority mail not to mention. It's a fraction of cause of those expensive postage meters. Don't spend a minute of your holiday season season at the post office this year. SIGN UP FOR STAMPS DOT COM with my Promo Code Garage and get a special offer that includes a four week. Trial plus free postage postage and a digital scale no long term commitments or contracts. Just go to stamps. Dot Com. Click on the microphone at the top of the homepage and type in garage which that stamps dot com enter garage. Stay calm is a must for any small business owner stamps dot com. Never go to the post office again. Would you buy a t shirt for fifty dollars of new. It only costs seven to make we won it. Ever Lane only makes premium essentials using the finest materials without traditional markups. They want you to know what you're paying for. And why so. They're radically transparent with their real costs in every step in their process from the materials materials they use to the ethical factories. They work with not to mention essentials like they're cotton crew t-shirt xactly what they should be versatile tiles simple stylish and made from quality materials ever lanes close look better cost less and lasts longer. Everybody's checking out ever lane in their learning whatever lane products have to offer. They are simply fantastic. They have one hundred percent greater Kashmir quality cotton basics sustainable silks premium Japanese denim made from the world's cleanest Denim factory I myself. I'm an athletic fit jeans guy. I got my denims from ever Elaine. I also have the twiddle weekender bag which is by far my favorite bag that I've ever owned and right now you can check out our personalized collection at ever lane dot com slash garage. Plus you'll get free shipping on your first order that's ever lane dot com slash garage ever lane dot com slash garage. All right. We're back. Cheers mates cheers captain. And today we are drinking CITRA. Noel hoppy Holiday Ale by Columbus Brewing Company. This is an American strong Ale strong enough for even the best holiday parties. Av seven point three percent garage grade four and a quarter bottle caps five. Thank you to everyone who has donated to the beer fund in two thousand nineteen happy holidays and just to be clear about this party. Were not for sure. It's been reported multiple ways that the person clean Santa Clause got a tour of the house from Jon. Benet Ramsey. Some people speculate that happened in Nineteen Ninety six. Some people say that happened in nineteen ninety five so bill mcreynolds was considered a family friend of the ramseys and someone that he he wasn't just somebody that was hired to play Santa Claus. They they knew this man on some level Ryan. He had played Santa Claus at their holiday party before four. And as you said it's a bit confusing on the stories that you hear even over twenty years later where some people will say Jon Benet gave Bill mcreynolds a tour of the home at some point during the party on in Nineteen ninety-six. Some people say that may may have happened in one thousand nine hundred five. We also have a situation where it is said. That Jon Benet gave Bill mcreynolds a gift and he would say years later that out of all the times that he played Santa Claus at of all the parties that he attended as Santa Claus. That Jon Benet was the only child to give him a gift again. He's receiving this gift a couple of days before her death. So that's something that obviously would stick out to you other and the only other gift that he probably ever got was like maybe a stinky lap from some dirty the kid on Christmas Eve December twenty four th. An article appeared in the daily camera regarding the Ramsey's Christmas party. Apparently this daily daily camera is just watching and reporting everything going on in the Ramsey's world during the day on December twenty fourth. Jon benet played at a friend's home. This is Megan Kostunica's house and told Megan's mother Barbara about a secret. visit it from Santa. This wasn't just her running up in saying hey Santa's going to visit me. There was a discussion. Had between Megan's mother Barbara and Little Jon Benet Barbara questioned. Jon Benet as to win. Santa was going to pay her. The secret visit. Is it because we are on Christmas Eve. You can imagine the natural conversation that would be had adult in a small child. The adult is going to say something to the effect of. Yes you've been good all year and when you go to bed tonight Santa's going to visit you and when you wake up you're going to find all your presents under under the tree through this conversation. What Barbara would learn? Is that Jon. benet explains to her. No I'm not talking about you. You know she wasn't talking about the traditional visit from Santa Claus as we all know it right That's already going to happen. She Says No. This is going to be a a secret visit after Christmas And of course at the time this doesn't seem to be anything out of the ordinary for Barbara or restraint right. It would only be until a few days later that this is really going to set off some alarm bells one. That's what's so difficult about this case is so many little points of e came in calm evidence just points of speculation that could mean everything or could made nothing at all. The other thing to hear captain is. I'm sure there's a lot of people out there right now. That if they did not know of this detail already their mind. Mind is immediately jumping to Santa Claus. Bill mcreynolds who we just discussed playing Santa Claus at the Ramsey home on the twenty third. I think that's that's a natural fit. We should keep in mind here though. How many Christmas events has this little girl attended? Just in. We'll recent weeks. How many Santa clauses did she come into interaction with? We talked about the parade that she attended that she sat on the float. The main and attraction was Santa Claus. She could've spoke to a Santa Claus there or so- just somebody dressed as Santa Claus right or Santa Claus at the mall or in the mall pageant that she attended there was the school event. This is the second of the Ramsey's Christmas parties and who knows how many parties they attended attended as a family. Right Ballista say that. She spent a little more time than some of the kids with the family. Friend Plane Santa and he just casually Ashley says she she might said something to Mike. Well yeah I know you're going to visit me on Christmas. What but what about after that? He's like aw I'll I'll pay you a special visit. The after Christmas not didn't mean anything but would mean the world to a six year old just like the nine one one call that came from the Ramseys home on the twenty third. This this mention of a secret visit from Santa Claus after Christmas could mean a lot it could mean nothing at all in regards to the investigation and on December twenty fourth later that day the ramseys attended the twilight service at Saint. John's Episcopal Church in Boulder Colorado. Hello around nine PM. John Ramsey retrieves a brand new silver girls bicycle stored at a neighbor's home. This is Joe Barnhill garage any places it under the Christmas Tree Ford Jon Benet and then both John and Patsy Ramsey get stashed Christmas Christmas gifts out from their basement. It's listed here as the basement area and place these under the tree as well. This is interesting for a few reasons one. It shows that at nine pm on the twenty fourth both durant both Ramsey adults. Both parents parents went down into the basement to retrieve these hidden Christmas gifts for the kids frame. Their basement as we mentioned earlier is made up of a series as of rooms there several small rooms in this basement. It's my understanding that the large room was more of a play area now given the size of this home. I don't know that a designated play area means that it was frequented by the children often or if it was just a once in a while type thing or their house is very interesting to me because it's so large but it's so blocked blocked off in little sections. It's almost like a a maze and also when you see pictures or video footage when they had the little towards awards for the houses that Christmas Towards Their House looks immaculate. It looks amazing but but when you see crime scene photos photos of the house it looks every room. Looks like it's an disarray. Looks like to me I would say every room needs to be cleaned every room. I'm need to be organized based off those pictures. So it's a it's a very interesting house. Couple quick thoughts here before we move on captain often you know this was a home built in nineteen twenty seven and often when homes are added to over the years. They end up looking like that where it's A. It's a lot of smaller caller rooms rather than a few giant rooms. Yeah and I also wondered and I couldn't find I. I know that there's blueprints of this House online and I've found like the top floors but I couldn't tell the basement and like you said this house has been added onto but a lot of times the basements are added onto onto. So let's say it's a seven thousand square foot home while that basement only might be fifteen hundred square feet. The reason why pointed out that the basement was a series of rooms as well as question. How often the basement was an actual use by either? The parents and or for the kids is it. My assumption here is that the parents are hiding the gifts from their kids. They could be possibly hiding gifts from one another as well right but just wanted to point out that on Christmas Eve. Both parents state that they went into the basement of that home. Now I question how often the children would be in the basement because we're GONNA have a lot of questions going forward about a very small room. That's well tucked away in this basement. mm-hmm if the kids don't go down there very often. There's no need to hide these gifts to that extent they could have just hid them in the quote unquote play Aroo. Yep As pretty common knowledge that this room that they quote unquote call the wine. Cellar is a room. That was unfinished. It was to be come. A wine. Cellar never happen. And that's often where they would hide gifts because that at least that part of the basement. We know that the kids didn't go to so we we have do. We have something stating that. The the gifts were hidden in this wine cellar. No but what we have from John Ramsey is when he was explaining to the police officers. This is this is what we call the wine cellar. But it's not a Finnish yet. It's GonNa be the wine cellar right now. It's just used for storage. And sometimes we put presence there for the kids on December twenty fifth nineteen ninety-six six. This is around six. AM The ramseys wake up later in an interview. Patsy will say it was six ish. Probably the Ramseys John Patsy Burke and Jon Benet will partake in the normal Christmas morning activities exchanging and opening gifts breakfast. And you know captain. I feel like the Christmas morning. Cup of coffee is the best one of the year. I love when the parents stop everything and say look. We're not opening up anything and and so I get my first cup of coffee right right. Make them wait at noon. John is going to leave the house. This is to go and check on the airplane. A plane keep in mind. They have planned flight for early the next morning sometime between two and three PM John Ramsey returns to the home from checking the plane so the family with the exception of John leaving for a bit. This is pretty much just they really great Christmas Day at home. Now you touched upon something just a few minutes ago where you said when you see the crime scene photos. The House is in disarray. That it's just a mess. Well first off with my standards with two young children in the home and having a the big Christmas I would say a big lavish Christmas because the parents have all kinds of money and they can buy these children all kinds of stuff one would in -ticipant to see a mess especially when they're not hosting anything you know. They've already hosted their Christmas. Get together one would expect to see a mess S.. However I do want to point out that there were several people close relatives of the Ramseys that stated that the house was kind of always a mess even though that the house had a housekeeper and that they had some help that would come in and take care of some things for them? The house was always a mess. Mess this again. In part two young children will do that to a home right but messy house messy mind. I also want to point out that in years past we have video footage of the Ramsey's Christmas on. I believe it was nineteen ninety four and I may be some footage on ninety ninety five. I don't know if that was released to the public. But on nineteen ninety six would they claim as I think woke up and the battery was dead of the camcorder. So that's why they didn't take a video that day between five and six. PM The ramseys left their house. This is all four of them John Patsy Burke and Jon Benet and they are in route for the home of their dear friends flee and Priscilla White. This is for a Christmas party. I've seen this reported to be as early as four PM but most often. It's said to be the five o'clock hour. This is your typical typical Christmas party by an unknown time. The ramseys leave this party right on the drive home from from the Party Jon Benet and her brother Burke fell asleep in the car and the ramseys made some stops along the way to drop off gifts. This is to who Stewart and Roxy Walkers home and then to Glen and Susan Stein's house because we don't know exactly what time they left the party and what time the stops took place we also don't know exactly what time the ramseys arrived back at their house right. They claim aim is between nine and nine thirty. We would have several stories about what would take place once. The ramseys arrive at their home. One of these stories says that Jon Jon Benet Ramsey to bed and then he went and played a game with Burke after word and eventually burke goes to bed. The ramseys later reported to the Boulder Police Department officers. That Jon Benet Ramsay was last seen by Patsy Ramsey in the residence at approximately ten PM according to Boulder Police Department detective. Linda aren't John Ramsey. Said Jon Benet was last seen by him at approximately twenty two hundred hours ten pm either way. Both both of these statements put job a as being last seen in her bed at ten o'clock right and a lot of people think how it went down. was they get home. She still sleep. They don't want to wake her up and John Kerry's her to her bed that's where he would say good night and then supposedly this is where patsy Ramsey comes in to check honor and and says good night tour as well. John would tell to boulder police officers separately that he read to both children before they went to bed a later he would deny both of those statements. Because I've I've heard him say several times that he carried her to bed and she was asleep when he cared bed. Yeah I just don't know here captain I could see either of these situations being very likely kids fall asleep in the car. You don't want to wake him up. You put them straight to bed also Christmas night. You know thinking thinking back to my childhood you remember when you get like something super cool like like a super nintendo or really big gift right and then your your parents are like. Here's your Super Nintendo with a couple of games. Oh we got to leave and go to somebody's Christmas party and you're like what to do. is his leave so I still yeah. They could've still been excited and when they got home either. Situation makes makes sense to me. What doesn't make sense is that the stories aren't the same or similar enough? Yeah and I would say look. If you're burke. Hey look at the story. They both fell asleep on the way home nine year. Old Burke wakes up and guess what he wants to do he wants to play with one of his cool toys. He got just like you just said Jon Benet Ramsey is. She's six years old and think about the amount of stuff she's done change. She's been On in competitions she's been an performances she had to be run all over to this family gathering friends and family gathering. I'm assuming that this six year old is wiped out and there is a picture that was just recently in the last couple of years released to the public which is supposedly the last picture of Jon. Benet that was ever taken and she looks tired in the picture and that was taken at the party before they left to go home so and also like I said early claims from John Ramsey. See this is what happened later claims from John Ramsey. This is what happened. I'M GONNA go with that story around ten to ten thirty. PM patsy goes to bed at according to patsies statement. John goes to bed at ten three to ten thirty three PM. PM What we're basing this off of is that Patsy says quote. John came to bed shortly. Thereafter then asked. Do you recall if it was fifteen minutes or a half an hour right. Patsy Ramsey says it was probably just a few minutes so we are tacking on three minutes. EITHER WAY A to that statement teno three to ten thirty three John and Patsy both claimed that they were not awakened during the night. They're both in. I bet yeah but I heard it reported somewhere. I want to say maybe it was John Douglas that John Ramsey claims that he took some kind of sleeping aid that night. While I believe that to be correct as well as I think that was a pretty regular things for John Ramsey either way by both accounts we have both of them in bed between ten ten thirtyish ten thirty three at the latest. Yeah I have not seen any reports like growing join up. When I was a kid my father would go through and check the windows and check the doors now? We don't live in a seven thousand square foot house but but I wonder if John Ramsey had some kind of routine that he would check the parameter of the house. It has been said that he did that at night and it has been said by people that were close to the family and their housekeeper that the Ramseys were quote. Good I I believe. The quote is actually really good about locking their doors. But it's interesting because they're not using their alarm system they have alarm. I'm system but it seems like that was not common practice for the RAMSEYS. It would have been at one time. The problem was or it's been reported it as such. They're having to little kids in the home. The children were constantly setting off the security system which created all these false alarms and anybody that has a security system knows that those false alarms they start to come with fines that can get fairly fairly steep right fairly quickly from law enforcement now we move onto December twenty sixth captain sometime around midnight neighbor. Scott Gibbons says. He looked out his kitchen window toward the Ramsey residents and observed that the upper for kitchen lights were on in dimmed. Low again. Another one of those things. It could mean something comed- nothing at all now. The the whereabouts of John Andrew Ramsay. This is John's son from his first marriage. His whereabouts will come into question so it is important for us to know here that between midnight and one. AM At least three people. Put Him at the home of Lucinda Johnson in Marietta Maryetta Georgia later. He is at another home again in Georgia. Just to be perfectly clear here captain these sightings things these alibis for John Andrew Ramsay are one hundred percent confirmed bright yet. There were actually cleared by the police which they haven't cleared a lot of people in this case for them to clear him that that's important and we have confirmation of people being with John Andrew Ramsay up until till eight thirty six. AM At one. Am Neighbors Andrew. Vermeer in Luke for mayor they went to bed. This is after watching movies. They say that before they went to bed all the way up to one. Am they did not hear anything unusual. They didn't see anything unusual. All everything was typical for that time of night according to boulder detective. Steve Thomas Neighbor Melody Stanton tune says she heard a scream between midnight and two am. This seems quite interesting to me but I do you want to take this a step further and point out that this same woman did say at the very early stages of the investigation that she had nothing to offer she did not want to get involved then later. She claims that she heard a scream. Between the midnight hour and approximately two a M. Yes yeah I heard I heard about. These screams is that they heard some screams multiple screens. Not just one but they heard multiple screens and thought. Okay yeah well surely. The parents of this girl are home because they she thought the screens were from a little girl that the parents are home. And they'll take care of this. That's why they stopped hearing the screams also around two. Am I WANNA point out that the whites regarding the activity at their friends flee in Priscilla White. Everyone including their guests are reported to have gone to bed by two am at five thirty. Am I'm John. Ramsey wakes up the family plan to get up early that morning because they were to fly to Charlevoix Michigan for a family vacation. Patsy patsy Ramsey got up quote a few minutes later while Mr Ramsey took a shower. Mrs Ramsay put back on the same outfit. She had on the night before she put on some makeup and she went down to the second floor and then went down the spiral stairs to the kitchen. Now well there's two different versions of this story. There is one that states that she went to check on Jon Benet on her way downstairs and Jon Benet. The name was not there right. The other story says that she went. She attempted to go straight down to the ground level floor now either way there on the spiral stairs. She found on a step near the bottom of the stairs. She discovered a handwritten note on three sheets of paper laid out side by side. The indicated that Jon Benet had been kidnapped. Patsy Ramsey told detective heart that she found a no at the bottom of the staircase at approximately five forty five. Am she says she read. Only a few lines stating being that Jon Benet was kidnapped but safe and unharmed and demanding one hundred eighteen thousand dollars for her return. Mrs Ramsay immediately screamed and then ran to check job as room which she found to be empty after hearing. Mrs Ramsay Scream. John Ramsey ran downstairs and met patsy Ramsey in the stairwell together they checked on Burke who appeared to be asleep in his room. John Ramsey then went downstairs to read the ransom. No he told Patsy to call the police. Nine one one logged the call at five fifty two you honey. What's going on okay? Because incurred and noteworthy daughter. How old is your daughter? How long ago was this checker? The same the ransom note here. The ransom no okay. What's your name? Are you for my okay. Do you know how long she's been gone on here. I am hunting tapie. AP Breath Kathy. Introducing the Jeffrey Epstein. I knew a new podcast from CNN. Hosted by Vicki Ward this seven episode series takes you behind the scenes to hear a one of a kind of count of Epstein an individual. Who's more myth than man Vicky Ward has been reporting on Jeffrey Epstein for almost two decades and takes listeners beyond the headlines to explore four? Who Jeffrey Epstein really was where he got his money and the circumstances surrounding his death? Subscribe to the Jeffrey Epstein. I knew wherever you get at your podcast. Whatever struggles you're facing from depression and anxiety trauma and grief better help can connect you with the professional counselor and safe and private uh online environment? It so convenient you can schedule secure video or phone sessions as well as chat and text with your therapist and anything that you share is completely completely confidential. Best of all. It's a truly affordable option. Our listeners even get ten percent off your first month with Discount Code Garage so why not get started read simply go to better help dot com slash garage and fill out a questionnaire to get matched with the counselor. You'll love today if you'd like to hear more of the garage. All of our old episodes are available before free on the stitcher APP and for our other show off the record. Check us out on stitcher premium. Join US tomorrow for episode two until then be good became. Don't let yeah yeah.

Jon Jon Benet Ramsey Benet Ramsey Patsy patsy Ramsey RAMSEYS Jon. benet John John Andrew Patsy John Patsy Burke Jon Benet Patricia Ramsey Party Jon Benet Ramsey John Andrew Ramsay Jon Benet Colorado John Ramsey Ramsey family Ramsey
JonBenet Ramsey ////// The Autopsy

True Crime Garage

1:22:14 hr | 1 year ago

JonBenet Ramsey ////// The Autopsy

"The park has network is rereleasing forty. Five classic episodes from their critically acclaimed series. Remarkable lives tragic deaths as part of a new limited series. He's famous fates famous. Fates will tell amazing. Stories of some of history's most influential lives and shocking deaths from Marilyn Monroe and Harry Houdini to Vincent Van Gogh and Al Capone. These episodes are all free and only available on spotify go to spotify dot com slash famous his face and follow now Jon Benet Ramsey. She was strangled with little miss. Colorado victim the Jon benet Ramsey intruder. Jon Benet Ramsey fill. The parents in any event has been held more than I know who is responsible breath after the John Ramsey and fleet white found job as body in the wine cellar located in the basement. John Hurry ran up the stairs. Taking the body auty with him placing the body on the floor of the kitchen. Detective Linda Art then moves the body to the living room. Then aren't orders fleet white you to stand by the door to the basement and guard. The door. Fleet white goes to the door but for some reason runs downstairs to retrieve the duct tape up from the basement floor. This is all taking place between one oh four. PM and one twenty three PM at approximately one thirty PM. Priscilla white calls her home. I'm guessing here captain but this is very likely to halt burke leaving the White House and returning to the ramseys around this same time officers Ron Walker and Larry Mason returned to the scene Saul Giannis Body and then searched the home afterward securing the house shortly after the body was found John. Andrew Ramsay Melinda Ramsey Stewart long arrive at the Ramsey House in Boulder Colorado between one thirty and two P M A detective over. Here's John on the phone. John called a pilot his pilot telling him to ready the plane. This to me is very strange behavior from somebody who has just recovered the body of their six year old daughter right around two PM John Ramsey signs a consent form to search the Ramsey home. Just touching on that that plane plane call to the pilot for a little bit here. The the detectives had to stop John Ramsey from leaving the the Ramsey family from leaving leaving telling the RAMSEYS. Hey you should go anywhere. We have a murder investigation. The crime scenes your home. And you know they're not going to tell them this up front and center here but obviously they're suspects Ryan. I think the way the Ramseys were actually thinking was Elena. Georgia was what they considered a home. So we have this bad thing that happened. We WanNA get back home. We don't want to be here we don't want to be in this house But that does like you said Hellyer investigation. I don't think that enters the investigation of the house or the crime scene but it hinders investigation station and being able to talk with them Adequately yeah and then regarding this consent to search form for the the search warrant if you will or because this makes. It seem like John's being very cooperative. Yeah I technically don't believe this to be an actual search warrant. You know one that you bring before a judge the judge signs off on it. I believe this just a consent to search form signed by John Ramsey. The owner of the home. This is just one of those those other little details within this case that I absolutely cannot stand. Is it regardless you know depending on whose magnifying glass you look at these details from you get a different story on what's going on here. Where the Ramsey defenders I would tell you look? This is proof positive that they were extremely cooperative. Don't bother nick with worrying about that. They wanted to hop on a plane and fly far away. Because this shows how cooperative they are they were signing a consent to search their home form. They have nothing to hide. There are an open book but then the ones that want to come after the ramseys point out there not really an open book because John Later says that that he thought he was signing off on a on on saying that yes you can perform an autopsy on the body right. So it's it's just frustrating. That's one of the most frustrating pieces of this case. Well I think one of the frustrating things is when people say only one huntings the truth right. Can we agree on that. It can't be both. Yeah I wildly. Where they say there's three sides to the truth there's yours mine nine and the actual truth not always But I think there's just the truth but I think with the whole wanting to go back home. He didn't go back home like they did to. The COP said you don't do that. That's a bad idea. But it's so stupid with this case it's like a non-point like yeah he's like let's go back home a don't do that okay. We're not going back home but they didn't. They didn't stay in the House that nobody nobody wanted to be in that house. Oh and I cannot blame them. I and I don't even know of John Ever went back in that house after that day. 'cause they Ended up staying with their friends. But but let's also be clear that around this time. They pulled John into a room by himself and they talked to him for a while and at some point they talked to burke by himself for a while so they do talk to burke. This would be at the he never comes back to the Ramsey's house right so they talk to burke one on one my understanding is it was straight up one on. I'm one burke was still at the friends house right. And he's over there you know playing with the other kids in their distracting him that I that's a troubling Ling aspect to this case too because you can look at just that whole situation in two different ways one are you protecting your child burke by removing him from the situation that could scar him for life. Something extremely traumatizing or are you purposely. Putting him away so that he doesn't disclose some information right by you eventually. Let him talk to the cops one on one John Zaven Room. I'm with him right. So if you're so worried about what he's going to say or if if you knew that he just smashed his six year old sister's head with a flashlight slight you don't let them sit in a room with detective by himself or with friends and others that he could share that information with Willie daily. I mean he's nine years old right. You're not there when they ship them off and also that's not just the ramseys thought process of all Burke Outta here. This was a this was the cops and the Ramseys gone. He needs to be removed from this site. The cops suggested that he should be removed from the the Ramsey home. No I think it was. It was like a collective effort who was a collective idea. I don't think it was just as simple as the Ramsey saying. Hey He needs to get out of here. One thing. I will point now here that I think is very troubling on behalf of the Boulder police and on the RAMSEYS is. If you're working under the scenario the child has been kidnapped from your home. A ransom has been called for in a letter. Wouldn't you want to protect your your remaining child. Wouldn't you feel that that there should be some kind of security charity for this other child rather than sending him off to some friend's house rise it seems it. It's another situation where we can point out that the boulder police clearly did not know how to respond to a kidnapping situation where a ransom is being called called for now but then the other day I think people that are pointing at ramseys constantly. You don't know what it would be like to lose a six year old daughter or how. Yeah you'd react to what you'd be thinking about. I think it'd be hard to think about anything and you go. Oh well they ship them away. So they're not protecting their son. Well it might not even be held to think properly so I think some of their actions right. That's what I mean. That's when the boulder police should have stepped in and I said no this. Is this this home right now secured because we have law enforcement presence here. He safe here right. I I agree and they should have done a better job of training when they got to the scene. Initially they should cleared the whole house and then they would have found her and then the crime crime scene one have been contaminated in there also. What had enough officers? Where you're not having her father pick her up and contaminate evidence and and then have the mother cry over her and contaminate evidence have the detective pick up the victim? Right and contaminate evidence. I mean it's that's pretty. Well not only did. Linda aren't move the body after John moved the body and this is important to the autopsy but she allowed someone to take a blanket as you know sign of To protect their child or no remorse or whatever whatever whatever however many different ways you wanna look at it. She allowed someone to take a blanket and play said over the body once it was removed to move to the living room. Yeah and then. To further that Johnny's feet were still sticking out from the blanket from the bottom of the blanket and lint. I believe Linda aren't told someone to cover up the feet as well so they took a Colorado avalanche the hockey team. They either took a hockey sweater or or sweat shirt and placed it over the feet of the body so what that means to the layperson basically any hairs fibers anything like that. That could have been on. That blanket could have been on that sweat shirt or sweater now is on could be on her body and or clothing. Yeah so it's just truly a mess now. Shortly after John on signs this consent to search form the ramseys leave their home they go to stay with the furnishings remember. We discussed the FERNS. They showed up early that morning. To the Ramsey. Home this The ramseys going to the furnace includes John's older children Johnny Andrew Ramsay and Melinda Ramsey and her boyfriend as well now sometime that afternoon John Ramsey calls and requests a visit from Michael Bynum who is reported to be John Ramsey's close friend and a corporate attorney. It is during this visit so Michael Bynum. He agrees to this visit and his during this visit that same afternoon that John Hires Michael Bynum to represent him and Mr Stor bynum advises the Ramseys at that time that they need to get additional attorneys rival. You're I think you're missing. One step. He actually got a call their lawyer GONNA call. It wasn't hired at the time but but that's why he suggested that John gets lawyer because he got a call from a contact that he had inside the police department. That said they're just trying to make this about you guys. And that's it. And that's when he suggested you need to get a lawyer on December twenty sixth nineteen ninety-six at the home of John and Patsy Ramsey. This is from the report these are the words words of pathological John e Meyer. MD He says the body of the six year old female was first seen by me after I was called to address identified. NFL A seven fifty five Fifteenth Street in Boulder Colorado arrived at the scene approximately eight PM and entered the house where the descendants body was located at approximately approximately eight twenty PM initially viewed the body in the living room of the house. The descendant was lying on her back on the floor covered by a blanket and the Colorado avalanche sweatshirt on removing these two items from the top of the body. The deceit was found to be lying on her back with her arms extended ended up over her head. The head was turned to the right. A brief examination of the body disclosed a ligature around the neck and ligature around the right right. I also noted was a small area of abrasion or contusion below the right ear on the lateral aspect of the right cheek. A prominent imminent dried abrasion was present on the lower left neck. After examining the body. I left the residence at approximately eight thirty PM at ten and forty five. PM on December. Twenty six. The body of six-year-old Jon. benet Ramsey is removed from the family's home before we move onto December twenty seventh seventh captain. I WanNa make sure that I point out here in regards to contamination of the body that it has been noted by several people. This is not one of these items. It's in dispute or up for debate. This is across the Board John Ramsey Patricia Ramsey. Linda aren't and fleet. Elite white all touched the body before it was examined right and John Ramsey and Patricia Ramsey touched the body several times. I'm not pointing winning that out to indicate guilt or to indicate that the ramseys were trying to cover something up. I think it would be a one hundred percent natural astral reaction to want to go to your child to touch your child. I'm just pointing it out for the purpose of evidentiary value. Yeah I mean it compromises. The scene we're not saying that to cover up anything that compromises the scene and And then we also know where we're starting from so the following is from Steve Thomas's book. This is inside the Ramsey murder investigation. Steve Thomas was one of the leading detectives on the case. This is from page forty one and it says it was the morning of December twenty seventh. The little body was I removed from a locked yellow outer covering then from an inner black bag. The paper sacks were removed from the hands and feet and Meyer Liar. Remember he is the pathologist began describing his findings. The victim weighed forty. Five pounds was three feet. Eleven inches tall and had green eyes is in. Some Green Garland was caught in her blonde hair. A single loop of white cord was around her right wrist tied on top of the sleeve but so loosely. The doctor easily slid it free. There were fifteen half inches between that loop and a loop uh on the other end which once apparently had bound the left wrist a white cord of the same type was wrapped so tightly around the throat and neck that a deep horizontal furrow had been dug into the skin a gold chain and cross tangled in that legislature which was was tied behind the neck to a broken stick. Blond hair was snared in the not and the coroner had to cut the hair in order to remove the cord which which was tied more like a noose than a twisting Gherat. The broken paintbrush used as the garage handle had Korea printed on it when when Meier clipped the nails of each finger. No Blood or tissue was found that would indicate a struggle. He used the same clippers for all the fingers. Although doing so created an issue of cross contamination for optimal DNA purposes separate and sterile clippers should have been used I for each finger. Furthermore we later learned that the coroner's office sometimes used the same clippers on different autopsy subjects. Oh that's that's amazing. acing great job there captain we go through the entire autopsy. I want to kind of go through and Cherry pick some items but to do the entire autopsy would be an exhausting process. It's over three thousand words long so I point that out one to not be lazy about it but to point out that it was an appears to be a thorough document. Constructed by pathologist Zala Gist Meyer Cherry. Picking some items here at the top of the report. Captain we have name Ramsey and I just WANNA say real quickly. If if you're not not willing to take the time to have different clippers on each finger I would assume there are some kind of protocol lets us. If we're GONNA start with that conversation then and yes. It's three thousand words. The I don't know if that means it's thorough. I just meant the document I said. It was a thorough document not a thorough examination. The thing here with these autopsies the gets difficult is your you're solely relying usually on one individual to handle this process properly as you're pointing out here. Follow Protocol and protocol varies depending on what county. You're in what city you're in what state you're in. It's I hate to say this but it truly is a bit of a Willy Nilly process. It's one of those situations where you question the science of it because it's human error and it's and it can be laziness it can be a number of different things and they can be opinion based correct and the other thing too. Is You know I. I had a discussion discussion once with with some people and they said well there were multiple hairs found on the body from different sources and that means that there were multiple killers. And he I said well not necessarily we've done enough of these cases to realize that that random hairs and fibers can end up on people for a number of different reasons that are innocent nature but to further that along and the way the way that I connect this to this conversation is I've reviewed at least two cases where later we learned that one of the hairs found on the body came from the body bag that the body was placed into. And it wasn't cleaned properly or it was a county that was quite poor and they're just re using bodybags all the time. The report states at the top. The name of the the deceit in is Ramsey. Jon Benet date of birth August. Sixth nineteen ninety aged six Sex Female Autopsy Number Ninety six. A you one. Five Five Death Dayton time December twenty six nineteen ninety-six thirteen twenty three so one twenty twenty three. PM This is interesting. They have to well. I guess they don't have to. But per protocol are supposed to put put a time of death on this form whether they come up with an actual time of death or not and in this situation one twenty three. PM is foot on this document because that's considered to be the agreed upon time that the body was in the living room. We know she didn't die at one twenty three PM and in fact there was no real time of death that was truly established. In this case. Steve Thomas Mus says that the detectives were told to work with a window of one. Am to seven am and then he kind of backs into that. A little bit In shrinks that window based off of some information we know to be true. The nine one one call comes in before six. Am so you can go ahead and take away six to seven now you're left with one. Am to six am right. I like that and I do like. You're going WanNa hear me question. Steve Thomas's actions in theories and how he came up with some stuff as we move forward but I wanNA point Out that personally I find his investigation to be interesting in in a sense that there are pieces of it that seem incredibly thorough. Where even on the time line of the day when the bodies found he has multiple times for when people arrive to the house inside his report inside inside his notes? Some people point out. What a terrible job? This detective has multiple times for the same people arriving to the house it. This can't can't be an accurate document. Right Steve Thomas never claims for that to be an accurate document. What he's saying is I've talked to everybody? Somebody tells me person a arrives at this time and then somebody else tells me personnel arrived at that time until I can prove what time that person arrived on leaving both in my report and in my notes both are correct so I I find that portion to be well done on on Mister Thomas's behalf yet because like you said I mean he's not just GonNa Kyi talk to this person. I talked to this person. I believe this person more right. He's same he's leaving it on their to improve other Otherwise and where I find it a little tricky though so is when we have the time of death when he's discussing what he believes or what he claims. The detectives believed to be the time of death. I find that I his theory in the detectives theory kind of wiggle. That theory gets wiggled into their time of death and the window that they create you know. They're making assumptions. That I think are still very dangerous to make in this investigation Wow One being that they say okay. Well we're told to work with this window of one. Am Seven am. We know that it was before six. Am because of the nine one. One Call we've shrunk the window a little they they want to shrink this window and I. We need that window to be much smaller than that. When the Dow unto Shrunken yes so we can really really get an idea of what happened and who needs to be accounted for during that time? The thing that I believe that they do this dangerous to the investigation. is they make the assumption. The the ransom letter was penned after the death and that the letter writing process would take a certain amount of time time and thus they can shrink the window even more. Have you wrote the letter out yourself. I have not but if I sit down and try to write it with my left Tan instead of my right. It's GonNa take me even longer bright but I mean do you have to guess of. How long do you think it would take you to copy? Well you say copy but but there's a chance that the author was was writing it from scratch right. Yeah that they're coming up with a an. Here's the other thing. How many times did they how? How many practice letters could there be? You know they're multiple pages ripped out from that pad of paper I believe it's three. Did they were able to determine that there were three pieces of paper missing between where they believe. The page one of the letter came from and the rough draft. Let's call Ah with the MRS and Mrs Mr Mrs I at the top of the page right but why I think people should do is pull out a couple sheets of paper and copy it start by copying it. That gives you some kind of time frame. It's that's under five minutes so yes it's it's a lot different to create one from scratch but if the perpetrator brought that note with them under five minutes to copy it yeah over eight hours if you have to sit down and watch ransom dirty Harry and speed when you're doing amazing that they didn't find those tapes at the scene of the crime right a right a portable remember those old. TV VCR COMBOS. Yeah Black and white yeah. The the PERP brought it with them. All right sorry. We're we're getting getting off track here. A final diagnosis talk studies blood. Ethanol none detected blood drug screen. No drugs detected final diagnosis cause of death of the six year. Old Female is exceeded by strangulation associated with cranial cerebral. Donald Trump L.. That's the letter. L is a period and Personal Care Company that makes organic period products without the gradients that you can't pronounce an only with certified. Organic cotton L MAKES TAMPONS PADS and liners with organic cotton. Because they believe a natural product it just makes sense for a natural process. They don't use pesticides chlorine fragrances or dyes either. They make their award. Winning organic period care products products easily accessible to women around the world because for every AL product you purchase one is made accessible to a woman or girl who needs it to date. They've made over two hundred million products accessible in counting. So when you get L.. You're part of helping that movement grow. That is why we are proud to be sponsored by Al.. We want to be part of that movement and simply when you get al.. You're going to get a better product for yourself but you're going to do something to make somebody else's life better. What's not to love about that you'll find L. by going to your local target? It's the best looking packaging on the shelf. Look for clear Canister Minister with a gold lid or white bags with the large gold circle on the front or get l.. Organic TAMPONS PADS and liners right now. by going to this is l. dot com slash garage. That's this is l. dot com slash garage. The words this is and then the letter L. L. Dot com slash garage checkout l.. Today making your home beautiful is the ultimate form of self care. Lucky for you Brooklyn is celebrating braiding their days of gifting with daily promotions on different items. I Love Brooklyn and I am a Sheikh Guy. I'm a guy that loves to get a good night's night's sleep and Brooklyn and has been helping me do that for years now. In fact I slept on my Brooklyn and sheets last night. Home of the Internet's favourite sheets Brooklyn and got over for fifty thousand five star reviews and counting. It's luxury sheets. Robes lounge wear towels and more without the luxury markup so this season season why not give the gift of softness and give the gift of Brooke Linen like softness comfort essentials to help you relax Brooke Linen. Has It all and again right now. Brooklyn Dot Com is having their days of gifting where each day they have promotions on different surprise. Item Brooklyn is so confident in their product that all their sheets comforters and towels come with a lifetime. Warranty the only way to get access to Brooklyn days of gifting event and free shipping. Pink is to go to Brooklyn and DOT COM. That's B. R. O. O. K. L. I N. E. N. dot com. And if you're hearing this and it's after the holiday today season you can still use the Promo Code Garage at Brooklyn and Dot Com for ten percent off and free shipping anytime Brooklyn. Everything you need to live. You're most comfortable life if there is something interfering with your happiness or preventing you from achieving your goals. That are help online. Counseling can help better. Help offers licensed licensed professional counselors who specialize in issues such as depression anxiety relationships trauma anger family conflicts. LGBT not matters grief self esteem and more connect with your professional counselor and a safe and private online environment and get help at your own time and at your own pace anything that shares completely confidential. And it's so convenient you can schedule secure video or phone sessions as well as chat and text pets with your therapist. If for some reason you're not happy with your therapist. Do you can request a new one at any time for no additional charge. Best of all. It's a truly affordable option. Our listeners even get ten percent off your first month with Discount Code Garage so why not get started today good a better help dot com slash garage than simply bleep fill out a questionnaire to help. Assess your needs and get match with a counselor. You'll love that's better help dot com slash garage cheers to you captain. I'm raising a big big glass of Christmas bomb. Twenty nineteen by the awesome folks at prairie artisan Ales Garage Grade. Four out of five bottlecaps. Thanks to everyone who has donated donated to the beer fund. And I don't mean just this week I mean all year long. Yeah for the last however many years. Keep the lights on and you keep beer here in the fridge while an our mouths as well picking up where we left off here captain to put it quite frankly Just to muddy the waters autres even more in this case. We have basically two causes of death. Declared by Mr Myers. MD A term that we will probably blay be discussing quite a bit. I wanted to describe this to everyone. Just so we're all on the same page. As we move forward the term will be Eh Gherat. The general consensus being here that a garage can be made out of many different materials including ropes. Cable ties fishing fishing lines nylon guitar strings telephone cord or piano wire anything of that type of nature. A stick may be used to tighten the garage. This is a Spanish word which actually refers to the stick itself in Spanish. The term may also refer to a rope and stick used to constrict a limb. This basically is a popular murder weapon and for Sadist. It's a torture device. It's unfortunately a term that we've used many times on the shell continuing with our exam here. Captain the deceit is clothed in a long sleeved. White Knit colorless shirt. The chest area contains an embroidered. Silver Star were silver sequence tied loosely around around the right wrist overlying. The sleeve of the shirt is a white cord at the not. There is one tail and which measures five point wing five inches in length with a frayed. End The other tale of the not measures fifteen point five inches in length and ends a double loop knot. This end of the court is also frayed. There are no defects noted in the shirt but the upper right sleeve contains means a dried Brownstein. Two point five by one point five inches believed to be from the nose or mouth. There are long the white underwear with an elastic waistband containing a red and blue stripe. The long underwear are urine stained over the Crotch area and and legs beneath the long underwear are white panties with printed Rosebud and the word Wednesday on the elastic waistband. The underwear is urine stained and the inner aspect of the CROTCH are several red areas of staining measuring up two point five inches. Maximum dimension to touch on this. What we've just reviewed here captain the in regards to the yearn? This is a big big thing in this case because what we would learn very early in the investigation from the ramseys housekeeper offer is that Jon Benet was known to wet the bed quite frequently as well. Her Statement to detectives was that often then when she would come in in the morning that patsy would have already stripped the bed placing the sheets in the washer and then when the housekeeper would get there you know she transfer them to the dryer sheets dried and then apply them back to the bed and this was at times a daily routine. I believe her statement was was that this was a daily routine leading up to about thirty or forty days before the murder and it just kind of gone away. It was almost like Jon Jon. Benet had grown up from that that she was no longer wedding the bed I might be mistaken but I think at one point. She was not wetting the bed and then she started wetting the bed again. That's exactly right. That's the same thing that I heard and I believe that was the statement from the housekeeper. The detectives also also found pull ups. You know like the they're not quite diapers therefore older children. Yeah I wear them. I wear them to concert so I don't. I'll have to take a break to go to the bathroom. I don't WanNa Miss Anything now. I wear them when I'm in the garage. There were pull ups found in the home and there was some question if Jon Benet was known to wear these. I'm guessing that she would. I don't see why pull ups would remain in the house when you have children that are nine and six six years old. Just look at the pictures of their house. Man It's a mess that's true. There's a hot mess. One of the the reason why we point this out here here is that one of the big theories that has lasted all these years. Is that Jon. benet wet the bed that night and in you know Oh anger anger in impulsive reaction Patsy freaks out and throws the kid across the room or hits her over the head with something. And it's this all came about because she wet the bed once again right and patsy had just been through it all and this was the final a straw she lost. It didn't mean to hurt or kill her child but that's what she did and then was like potty training abuse. It's it's actually pretty common like even people that want it. You WanNa think would hit their kids or be violent towards her kids. They can beat lead if the kid is not being potty trained correctly or not able to do such right so we have to address this because we do have in the autopsy report from the external examination that there was urine on the clothing. I do want to point this out go. We should be clear here that this could come about at any time. It doesn't necessarily mean that she one hundred percent wet the a bed that night now this could have she could have. She could have went herself during an attack. That's extremely common. She could've wet herself. After you know indepth yeah so to point to that and say hey. She had two of wet the bed and this is the only. This is the explanation. We've come up with due due to that fact again. I think that's a dangerous assumption to make in this investigation to further this out a little more and I hate to. I hate to throw the warning out there that it's going to get a little gross because it seems only sensical because we they are discussing an autopsy but the fact that our show is called true crime garage in in the When discussing discussing her wedding the bed there's also reports that she has defecated in the bed before multiple times? There's also oh statements that burke would defecate in Jon. benet bed I don't know either. They're one of those to be true. It seems to me like the one that we can really hang our hat on here. That seems to be the most true is the bed wedding situation. This this is brought up by multiple people and the the other bit. I can't say for certain that that I believe either one of those. Now what would be pointed out during this investigation and these aren't my words but bed wedding defecating in the bed things of of that nature. It was pointed out that sometimes that is what you would see when somebody is being molested not only molested but usually when they're being molested by somebody within the home or in the family the reason for that is that in those situations situations sometimes the victim will do that consciously or unconsciously subconsciously. Whatever it is because they want to appear less desirable or gross to the perpetrator? Some was a way of protecting themselves. Correct that I point that out because that is one of the theories as well in this case I also want to stay one hundred percent that. There's never been any evidence before after the murder of Jon Benet Ramsey that John or patsy had they were ever involved in any paraphernalia at all. Yeah 'cause be clear on something. They searched their house. I I they actually called it. It was one magazine that called this murder Kiddie porn murder. They searched the house for Porno and they did not find any right. So and then there's also a rumor that they had all these Books or one of the books on and their study was opened up to incest or something like that. I believe it was that a dictionary down that the word incest was marked in in a dictionary. I questioned that one to captain because that's one of those ones that you hear in more salacious reports on this case Ace I really question I feel like that would be a a more well known fact if it was a fact but we what we do know is the fact is they didn't find any pornography in the house right into top that off. These both parents have other children. There's you know there's never been any any complaints by any of the other children that that patsy or John was ever involved in anything like that and to further that out even even more. We Have Melinda on record multiple times saying her father just wouldn't be capable of such an act and that he be murder order or molestation while we're on the subject though of the bed wedding situation. One thing that I did find particularly strange in this case and this is well reported to that Jon. Benet Ramsey had twenty seven doctor visits and the course of the three years leading leading up to her death on an average that puts her at like nine a year. That's a crazy amount. The doctor when asked asked about this states that this was for the the pediatrician states that these were for all normal reasons. She did have some some sinus issues. I guess that would be caused for reoccurring visits. I also wonder too. We know the situation of the accidental time when burke hit her in the face with the dog club. Yeah in the face and the face That in itself. Though I wanNA point we now just just something like that requires multiple doctor visits. I was looking for like a a straight up list while. Yeah you'd have if there was stitches. You have stitches than you have to remove the stitches. Well we know we know that she went to a plastic surgeon. So just like you pointed out there that that starts with the initial doctor visit referral to somebody consultation. The the surgery a follow up right there. You have four out of the twenty seven one. You have a stay at home mom so I think yeah maybe four people that are everybody's working and there's not a lot of money little. Oh things you're just going to let go but when you have the time to take your daughter and for every little thing and you have the money to cover it. I don't think that's unreasonable. Symbol external evidence of injury located just below the right ear at the right angle of the mandible. One point five inches below the right external auditorium canal is a small rust. Colored Abrasion in the lateral aspect of the left. Lower Eyelid is Particul- hemorrhaging coaching. I'm going to skip some portions of this autopsy report captain because there are multiple pages that go through all of these petillo hemorrhaging and all the Hammer Djing. That takes place. We know that we've already discussed it. Strangulation was involved and anybody. That's listened to the show or other true crime shows knows that hemorrhaging occurs during those types of situations but to specifically describe some of the report. Here this part I believed to be important wrapped around the neck with a double not in the mid line of the posterior are. Your neck is a length of white cord similar to that described as being tied around the right wrist. This leg. Sure cord is cut on the right side of the neck. Doc and removed a single black ink. Mark is placed on the left side of the cut and a double black ink mark on the right side of the okay so that portion portion of that last two sentences of his report are describing the pathologists actions he saying I removed it by cutting it and then I placed markers indicating touch took place. The not is left intact extending from the not on. The neck are two tales of the not one measuring four inches in length and having a frayed end and the other measuring seventeen inches in length with the N. tied in multiple loops around a Tan. Brown wooden stick which measures four point five inches. In length this wooden stick is irregularly broken at both ends and there are several colors of paint and varnish on the surface my printed in gold letters on one end of the wooden stick is the word Korea the tail end of the other word extends from beneath the loops of the cord tied around the stick and is not able to be interpreted blonde hair entwined in the not in the cord wrapped around the wooden stick. It appears to be made of white synthetic material also secured around the neck is a gold chain with a single charm in the form of a cross examination of the right extremities is unremarkable on the Middle Finger. Finger of the right hand is a yellow metal band around the right. Wrist is a yellow metal and identification bracelet with the name. Jon Benet on one side and the date twelve twenty five ninety six on the other side. This was a gift from her aunt. I believe from patsies sister. And I mean there's these little sad heartbreaking points in this case all along the way that just remind you of the pure innocence of this little girl and you know she here. She is wearing a gift that she just very recently received. Him was probably very excited to wear this piece of jewelry this she received from her aunt. I mean it just breaks your heart. I also think it's not clear in this is case on how brutal this attack was. And this is the way it was set up almost looked like you'd put a human on a leash and then you'd be pushing their head down as he pulled the the crop back. It's truly horrifying. I don't think that there's any documentary out there that has. I don't know what the right word is here. Captain but I wanNA. Let's say bothered to describe how horrific it would appease injuries. Are they almost make it. Sound like it's sleeping beauty lying in a windowless room in the basement and that's not the situation at all. There's if anybody that seen the pictures read the descriptions and we're going through here you hear the the the medical speak jargon and and it just sounds like textbook shit but really in lay terms it was. It's a horrific attack on a on a tiny little person and yet there's actually two marks on the neck one at the lower part of the neck and then at some point that became free and they go in deeper. And there's actually a couple pictures that you can see how deep the rope goes round throw almost disappears. Yeah and the line that it left at the mid line of the throat. After the fact though I mean it looks like somebody took up. Maroon Maroon Marker a Maroon Sharpie and just drew a line across somebody's neck that's how deep it looked like it was the cord was going into the neck back. There was a red ink line. Drawing in the form of a heart that was found located on the palm of John. Benes left hand hand. The fingernails of both hands are of sufficient length for clipping. And we already discussed that. They use the same clippers to clip. All of the figuring. Now you said that there was no nothing founded neath the nails but I I thought there was some DNA and possibly some blood that was found underneath the right hands fingered fingernails so in that showing that she struggled with somebody at some point. You're correct there are multiple bull reports on this detail of the investigation. The bit that I gave you was Steve Thomas's report one of the leading detectives. So I don't know what is the real true answer. What I find interesting is that he he follows up his report by saying we later? Learned that the all the fingernails were clipped with the using the same clippers right again. I think that points points to his thoroughness of saying whether this right or wrong this happen. Yeah whether it's right or wrong. This is what happened and then to to add adds to the weight of that question everything because this also happened right. What's the best way to describe the the because there was some? I don't WanNA use the word damage to the vaginal area. I don't think the damage which is the right word. Well you say indication of I've actually seen this disputed multiple ways one Claims that there. There's evidence that there was. At least some kind of touching to the Jonah area digital manipulation appellation. Yeah at the time of death. Then they also use the word chronic. Now when you hear the word chronic you think all this is going on for a long time now. This was this term. Would've made sense to meaning that there was something that happened to her days in. Advance of one of the medical examiners thought that this would happen. Basically a most likely individual pudding their finger inside verve China on the twenty second or the twenty third. Now Other Medical Examiners have stated that some of this bruising could be due to hygiene the bed wedding the irritation of the irritation yeah of having urine stained clothing on the skin right up against skin one. Sometimes they get time you get rashes and so then a mother would use They would get some kind of medication. The put on the rash and you could. Then you know that's where you could get some digital. Well I think to put it pretty as clean Lena's we can would be to say that the reports out there state everything from chronic molest ation to something as little as Irritated skin that could come from urine stained clothes or by this be clear wiping right right. But let's be clear about this chronic molestation this is not there was no signs of. There's there's no scar tissues to prove that she was molested molested for weeks and months and years not true. We're talking about the time of her death and probably once a couple a couple of days before that's all they prove. It also seems like there was wood fragments found in her vaginas. Well well I didn't personally see that in Dr Meyers report. Yeah I think it's saw that from loose-knit he does reference Fibers neighbors okay as well so again with this with this area of the body. It's it's really. It's up for to to debate really depending on who you talk to. This represents any number of things what I feel that I've seen and heard the most so I'm gonNA throw throw this in the batch of general consensus would be the just as you pointed out that this is something that occurred either at the time of death or shortly before car and it could be anything from as terrible as digital manipulation or something More vigorous swiping or hygiene. No no I I'm real and all that out what most of the medical examiner's state date as that the choking which people so half hazard we want to say is covering up for for something right. But the the the choking of Jon Benet was is after the fact and therefore it's covering covering up an accident now. The choking was not an accident it was on purpose. It was not meant to kill her. It was meant for sexual gratification. So if you have a they believe that there was molest station the time of her death and I think that that needs to be fact to me because it's like you don't have one or the other and a lot of people think because there wasn't penetration with like a penis that the individual would be more likely to be younger or a crazed disorganized. You typically see that rain in those types of of of murder cases so the report says a one centimeter red purple area of Abrasion is located on the right posterior will sorry him going to struggle with some of these words here. Captain Posterior lateral area of the one by one centimetre Heimdal orpheus. The hymen itself is represented by a rim of tissue extending clockwise between the two in ten o'clock positions. The area of Abrasion Asian is present at approximately seven o'clock position and appears to involve the Hyman in digital right lateral vaginal wall. We say all that to point out that it that that's basically saying there's a small amount of damage or injury to that area that bruising. Yeah one thing that is completely shocking. In this whole case shocking to me captain is that it appears that Linda aren't the pathologist who arrived on the twenty six th to examine the body at the ramseys home and then several other people as well that nobody realized that this poor girl had been struck over the head. Yeah it's it's it's almost like it took further detection that it wasn't you know you have the shocking scene of the Gherat of the cord wrapped around this little girl's throat wrote maybe it's the shock factor. And you you. You don't see what what might have been obvious but for all the reports I've read and stop me if you've read. They need the that are different. But it sounds as if this head wound which this this was a massive injury and we'll get into the details of it but it sounds like site scene unnoticed right. Yeah well there's no blood massive pulls a blood right and she had long blond hair. I believe it was was she to two pigtails or ponytails whatever they call that while yeah I mean that I if you've ever seen one of your buddies hit their head especially when they have blonde hair it turns bloody real real quick right but what I'm getting. Ah I don't know how much blood there was. There wasn't right and I don't know I would like to have a pathologist or a doctor I sit down with me and tell me the reasons why there's no blood obviously one she's already dead or near death at the time. Yeah that's what most medical examiners when they look at this say look. There's a lack of blood. So we they believe all the credible ones the most credible ones that I've seen in with this case state. She was choked. Who Sexual for sexual gratification? The perpetrator was and choking her either trying to touch her now. That would be random. That wouldn't be as much most likely. They were touching themselves salves while they're strangling her She there's defensive wounds around her neck meaning she's trying to stop the choking at some point. Some people believe that would cut off the blood circulation to her brain And there's some signs of that they they. I believe through the autopsy and so I I can't remember what they call it but it's basically where Y- your dad And it's it. It happens almost instantaneously Yeah and so that they also believe that you know normally if somebody's trying to strangle somebody in order to kill them. There's a lot of marks that are laughed like inside the neck muscles are strains different bones and stuff possibly can be broken within the neck and none of that is seen here. That's why they believe that dat these these bruises within inside the vagina are from molestation because the evidence of the choking doesn't I said it doesn't seem like the purpose of the choking was to kill her was to control her. So where where it gets a little convoluted is a lot of medical. Examiner's think that during this sexual gratification that the perpetrator then Either freaked out or or got into it too much and hit her over the head with something now now other people believe that the perpetrator knew that they that she was dead because they also there's also a temporal lube bruising in the brain and that's common when somebody is once a shakes somebody after death right and so so somebody chokes. Her doesn't mean killer shakes her. She's dead and then. I think I believe that's win. The the blow to the head happen because at that point the heart has stopped at won't be pumping blood to the to the brain. That would be one of the reasons why we WANNA have pulls a blood everywhere. That is one reason the other reason could be too is do we. How much broken skinned do we actually have with this strike right and the interesting thing here too? Is the the use of the garage in the manner that it was used very likely could suggest that it's it's not only torture device but it's also a sexual assault assault device where you're using it because that's what this this Sicko is into. And sometimes we see this Salat. In a lot of cases that we've covered especially with cereals that they will often choke someone almost to the point of death and then allow them to receive air and then choke them again right and they believe that was happening with her because their signs of that for for from the autopsy but those. Let's be clear that shows like. CBS is documentary on this case. It doesn't make any sense you can't start off with the idea of that. There was a a blow to the head. You cannot start that off. They believe this blow to the head would have made her brain dead should be unconscious minimum and then because of the brain brain swell in the brain bleed should be brain dead. And what happens if you're unconscious or brain dead you you do not put up a fight of somebody choking you right. So let's be clear. No need to restrain the arms right firm the perpetrators perspect- right and I know a lot of people are going to sit there and say well but but all that stuff is to cover up some kind an accident. Let's be clear that. CBS and everybody involved in that show were irresponsible for putting out that information. It's just factually not correct. And if you want to. I don't advise that you do this. Because you might have nightmares about this but go look go. Go Look at pictures of Jon. Benet Ramsey snack and see all those half moons of that six year old girl trying to stop somebody from strangling her. So this idea. Yeah that was burke accidentally hit on the head or that or that during a changing of Pajamas are changing the sheets. Or whatever that in Janis bathroom right that that she slipped and hit her head or got tossed across the room by her mother or or struck over the head with a flashlight. Right to the credit I guess of the of the people that believe Burke may have killed his little sister be an accident or whatever the skull fracture to me does look like it could have came by way of golf club it. I mean there's I if anybody looks at that picture and says I wouldn't think a golf club could make that Roy gear because strike. I would thera co well. Then you're you. You need to go get glasses my friend right because it straight up in the dimensions. So let's describe this because not not everybody's going to be fully aware of of this. The fracture of the skull fracture is huge. It measures eight inches in length and the way way that this works out is she would have been struck on the top of her head. But it's more to the right solid sign of her head. Yeah Yeah and the the fracture runs from where the where the impact hit on the skull and it runs all the way forward. Yeah and then what you have at the top where the impact took place. You actually have a full section that broke off it. It runs eight inches in length. Total but from where the point of impact. What we have here is picture a school where you have a crack that runs down the majority of the right side of the skull at the top of that crack where it stops? You have a basically a rectangle shaped piece of the skull that fully broke off on all four sides and that piece itself is quite small. I believe it's one and a half inches by a half inch. That's that's the rectangle there and then from there you have You would have your remaining so it'd be six and a half finches of a fracture that runs from that broken piece there. Yeah and and in cops were looking for this this possibility as well. Maybe not so much a golf club but it did look into that Burke had back on they did some tasks and then realize they don't believe that would the happened through a bat not saying that the cops were saying that burke hit her in the head but there were looking for objects. Yeah Then you have have a bunch of tests done on the flashlight again. I think that's it's reasonable to you. See you have a bigger opening bigger fracture than it goes goes to with thinner fracture. So maybe something like a a big flashlight. It definitely have liked the weight to it to to be able to do to be able to create that that type of fracture but there's also a picture crime-scene picture that there's this now most looks like One of like a fireplace tool that would also be like if I were to walk around. Someone's home after seeing the the skull when the skin skin is pulled back and see the fracture itself. If I were to walk around anyone's home and like pick up instruments that I think could have could have made that impact impact and left that Mark Right on her left that fracture in that manner. I don't think I would go for flashlight. I'm not saying it's impossible. I wouldn't go for flashlight. Ashok wouldn't go for Bat. Anything that's rounded doesn't seem to make sense to me. I see something where you need like. You need something where you're almost seeing saying. The broken piece of the skull is the outline of whatever hitter and that to me would be like. Yeah like a fire place tool or a golf club. Anything like right but if you look through the crowds and possibly it's one hundred percent has to be you know the the markings of what hitter. Yeah object hitter It had to have hitter look at the I mean. Let me finish my thought. Sorry so I if you look at the crime scene Infos there there. It looks like some kind of fireplace tool. I don't know what you call those but it's right under the current. Does the poker the things that you would like. Some people have like the poker's and then they have the brushes and yeah they have the shovels and and they have all different kinds of things things. Okay right it looks like there's one in. It's underneath the open window where the suitcases and you'd have to go through there's tons of crime scene photos but you have to go through and you can see it laying on the ground now. I can't. It's blurry I can't tell you exactly what it is but I go while we know L.. Where the we know where the paintbrush handle came from a came from that room right that that was used in the Gherat? A We know that at some point she was in that suitcase. Because we have all these fibers from her clothes. That are in that suitcase so they were gonNA use. Well you can say you know that I won't. I won't be on board with that one. I'm not not convinced that she was in the suitcase. Okay but what we do have is a suitcase as with a bunch of fibers from the clothes. He was wearing that night. So well again. I don't know that they were the closest she was wearing that night. The well that's the report the the House that I saw again but that I'm not sure I don't WanNa sound like I'm challenging you here. I'm I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying the information I've reviewed doesn't state state that same stuff right but right. Would that suitcase where that suitcases. Correct underneath that open window. There's a crime scene photo that has some kind kind of object and I just want because police have stated we haven't found the object of what hit her on the head right right and here's where this is what I question okay and all has to work on some order like Lou Smit uh-huh keep calm Smith it's like his analysis of the the intruder theory doesn't work it starts with a stun gun. Or what does the stun gun do incapacitates. The person renders them unconscious at some point right so mary likely to for a small person. We're not talking about a full grown right all. We're talking about a very small child. And how long long are they incapacitated for the this is what I would wanNA know I could. Yeah I don't think any of us can say because there's differing you know there's varying degrees of you've even the stun-guns but just as analysis it doesn't make any sense because if I go okay I'M GONNA go up to John nays bedroom and I'm gonna hit her with this stun gone and that's what's going to allow me to take her downstairs. Okay at what point does she eat pineapple so well we should be clear. Clear here for those. That don't know there was A substance found in Jon Benet upon the the autopsy findings that it suggests that she ate pineapple or a substance that resembles pineapple shortly before her death by it was undigested tested right and then we have crime scene photos that have a bowl of pineapple with milk. Which I've never heard of of my mother fed me pineapple who says this pineapple in a bowl? I that's weird. I've heard of yogurt and cottage cheese but never milk. I think it's milk again. I don't I don't quote me on that but but my thought is okay while loose smith loose smits smit intruder theory Hamburg or get downstairs. She wakes up. She's supposed to be met by Santa Claus. At some point she goes downstairs. She sits at the table. She makes herself off some pineapple. Maybe she doesn't make herself some pineapple. Maybe Burke made himself some pineapple but he went to bed. He didn't finish it so she sits there and decides how you the peace of this. That's when the intruder would have to come in contact with her right right or I guess she could woke up in the middle of night went downstairs eight. Some pineapple went back upstairs as possible. on then you use the stun gun but again the sun doesn't make any sense because once you start trying to control her with the Grat. You need defensive wounds. I do want to point out here though to the purpose of the garage may not be yes. It's control but not in the manner that I think that some might be thinking thing it could be straight up for sexual assault right type of control and I'm not going to go into it too much. I mean Maybe on off the record or something. I don't feel comfortable discussing what the garage itself could have been used for the thing I will. I put my stamp on here though. Well before we get into that. Let's point out that we're the stun gun idea comes into play is that there are pictures. Sure there were unfortunately or fortunately I guess depending on how you WanNa look at it. It's incredibly degrading to the victims. Involved in this case but autopsy photos were leaked to the press at some point and you can view them online still to this day based off of that we have loose-knit who later says. Look you see these two little looks like little prong marks. He's this these came from a stun gun now. You you have other experts. You have Dr Warner Spitz. And trying to think of what he's most famous for he's covered. He's done so many different cases but Warner Spitz where our listeners would know him. The best from would be from West Memphis three. He was the one that later viewed the photos and said. Hey these marks are Bite marks from a from turtles so that that's that dude. He says when he views these photographs. These are not stun. Gun marks there there there. He would expect what he's looking for is a stun gun. Basically is leaving an electrical burn type mark on the skin. Yeah I he says is that what he's seeing it doesn't does not appear to be a burn to him and I'll see that on their back the marks on their back that a lot of people think are like maybe a train track set which would have been in the room that possibly was molested in? That's another thing too you. She has multiple scrapes and stuff on her back in marks on her arms and stuff like that basically that she was squirming during the time that she was molested and so could she got these marks on her back at that point. Yes but the marks on her face I to me I see what what looks like a burn between the two marks and you would expect a good deal of struggle and squirming if in fact she was being choked and there was some type of sexual assault prior to death. This is what I said I was GONNA put my stamp on here. Captain Reviewing the pictures of the skull. I I don't know science. I'm not a pathologist. I'm not claiming to be an expert. You take this for whatever you for what it is. It's some dumb guy in a garage. Giving his opinion now I should. I should go then. Should be my turn them but what my opinion is based off of these photographs damage damage to the skull man. I don't think that Burke would have had the strength regardless of weapon to create this type of damage in one single blow. This looks to me to be one. Single solid hit to the skull. I also ole-ry sorry go further and say I don't think and I've seen pictures of Jon benet bathroom to theory that patsy loss control role in through across the room in this was some kind of head injury that occurred when she got thrown across a room or she hit her head on something after being slapped by Patsy. I'm not saying that patsies innocent. What I'm saying is this injury did not come from anything like that? In my opinion this is a single strike of of very violent strike to the head single strike with with a lot of strength behind it and a lot of force behind the other thing I will say to. I beg anyone to go out there and look up the garage or what. They are calling a Gherat in this this case because what I see here this is one of those rare times in the case where you see some level of criminal sophistication and what I mean by that is. Is this this weapon. This torture device here appears to me. This wasn't the first time ever constructed this. This was not the first time that they put put one of these things together. Well most medical examiners call these not sophisticated yeah the these are not. These aren't not made by a nine-year-old nine year old when I look at this what I see if you I would love if somebody would take the pictures it like if I could go back and unsee them and somebody could take away the words words Jon Benet Ramsey from the photographs and just hand them to me and go. Oh what's it what's this from. What do you think this is what I see their captain without anything clouding? My Vision. Is An intricate torture. Device constructed for the sole purpose of sexual. We'll assault. Yeah it seems like most of the medical experts believe again during the sexual assault during this this torture that this individual loss control and ended up hitting her on the head but at that point the brain wasn't pump. The the heart wasn't pumping to the brain already. That's a real thing. I guess during strangulation that that will stop I stay in it slows it along the way. Yeah it's still the person still alive technically. But there's no blood or oxygen pumping into the brain now meaning should be brain dead. They hit her on the head because they lost control or is part of their fantasy or whatever. I think that's a very good the possibility but like I said we have fibers whether you want whether you want to believe this or not. Because there's experts that contradict each other over over and over but there's fibers in that suitcase and my thought. Is that this individual for whatever reason the sexual gratification I was going to be better for them If they molested her inside the house knowing that her family was there there was excitement there once they figured out she's dead. That wasn't part of the plan in the ransom notes already sitting on the staircase right I have to get her out of here. I am gone to use the suitcase to transporter. I put her in the suitcase. At this point no blow to the head. I I think it's possible that individual put her in that suitcase and tried to lift her up through that window and then dropped her and landing on her head Yes yes. They're suitcase would hit I but she's inside the suitcase and I think that's possibly ably. What created That fracture you pointed out something very important in this case and just with every aspect of this case there's so many different opinions. There's so many different even expert opinions and regarding the autopsy itself cause of death injuries to Jon. Benet how those injuries occurred. We've had many very reputable good solid experts over the ears. Examine this case. But what they've examined have been photographs and what they've examined have been documents. There's only been one path. Allah Gis to examine the body. And that was Dr Meyers. MD Nine hundred ninety six. Whatever struggles you're facing for depression and anxiety to trauma and grief? We've better help can connect you with professional counselor and safe in private online environment. It's so convenient. You can schedule secure video or phone sessions as well as chat and text with your therapist and anything that you share is completely confidential. Besse Vodka truly affordable option. Our listeners. Even get ten percent off your first month with Discount Code Garage so why not get started simply go to better help dot com slash garage and fill out a questionnaire to get matched the counselor. You'll love today. That's better help dot com slash garage for all of our old episodes checkout exclusively on the stitcher APP and we have the weekly show on stitcher premium called off the record. Cheers the captain and thanks to everybody out there for listening. Thank you for telling a friend and thank you for all of the wonderful a five star reviews. Please join us back here in the garage next week for episode five until then be good kind. Don't Let Eh.

Patricia Ramsey murder RAMSEYS John burke Jon Benet Ramsey Linda Art Patsy Ramsey Jon. benet Mister Thomas Ramsey John Ramsey clippers Ramsey home Andrew Ramsay Melinda Ramsey S Colorado Brooklyn John Hurry Jon Jon
JONBENT: The Case Against The Ramseys

The Killing of Marilyn Monroe

34:51 min | 1 year ago

JONBENT: The Case Against The Ramseys

"Israeli I wanNA tell you that this air here are your video recorded of volunteered statement. You're free to go over to stop this interview any time to wherever you hearing growing by now. That was a clip from patsy. Ramsey's please interview in the late. Ninety s this is John Ramsey. Today we were told us later by the district attorney was to release a lot of information to the media that was was suspicious. Made US look guilty. Tension guilty and the media would bring intense pressure on passing. I one of us at crack back during the confess as to be solved that was their whole strategy that was the only strategy yet and so the media of course ran with it. Big Time and convinced convinced seventy percent of the world that we were guilty of Maria child then the police recalling. Oh we can't bring a case because we don't have any evidence so so they kind of got back into core like Dang you know we. We thought one of them was going to confess that we solve the crime. We could've gone on TV and Indianapolis Welcome to part two of the killing of Jon. Benet Ramsey the final suspects. I'm your host Danielle Robea We do have a group here now on the ground knocking on doors and talking to people who know what happened. who were there? Were involved to have records. This is Jon Benet Ramsey expert Jamison in. Hopefully we can do something to get this investigation. Gatien advanced no matter how it takes if we have to do. If we can get the COPS to help us. That would be wonderful if we could convince somebody to step in. Take the case away from the police department. Give it to a cold-case group or the District Attorney's office again. That would be wonderful but we're determined to every effort we can get in this advanced before they can begin to work on formerly detective. Smith suspect list. We need to address the elephant in the room. From the moment John Ramsay discovered the body of his daughter in the cellar of their family. Home he and wife Patsy had become prime mm-hmm suspects in her murder. As far as the boulder police were concerned one or both of them did it period and thanks to increasingly rabid media interest crest and a million online conspiracy theorists that view became shared around the world. was there ever any evidence to back up this theory in this episode. We're going to discuss the case against the RAMSEYS. This is detective. Robert Whitson talking about the Boulder Police Department. There's something called confirmation bias and when you have that you don't want to hear anything that's contrary to year theory once you've made up to your mind you don't want to hear anything that would be contrary to that so I think that's what was occurring now of course they'll deny that according to figures from the US Department of Justice seventy four percent of all murder victims in America. No they're killer and over over one in five victims are killed by a member of their own family for the boulder. PD The initial. Focus of their investigation was naturally jonbenet's parents John and patsy eighty former sheriff's investigator. John San Augustine explains from the onset of this investigation. The Boulder Police Department has focus the Ramsey family. So you know what we're dealing with right now. Even twenty years later is a situation where because of their lack of objectiveness really in this case lack of really pursuing the the the truth and only focusing on the family they have not allow themselves to look at other potential suspects local news reporter Paulo Woodward also remembers cops refusing to keep an open mind on the case stars I know will the only suspects they really pursued or John and Patsy Ramsey. They have said that they pursued others. Looks at others from the information that I have an examining that investigation. They were locked onto the family by the first day and they didn't change their focus. Still they are suspects of the Boulder Police Department at Saint. John's DNA did not match patsy in John's handwriting did not match to the ransom note yet. They still were suspects of the Boulder Police Department. Those are two pretty definitive pieces of evidence that exclude the family. They were not excluded older. PD may have wanted to believe. The ramseys were guilty but they had no actual proof John or patsy were involved loved and his days to weeks and with the public demanding justice many close to the case say. The police began to manipulate the huge media interest to try to further their own cause errors of the case that initially happened at the crime scene or compounded rounded boulder police leaky misinformation on purpose and being picked up by rookie media reporters and run the first wake the leaks. Were Bing's just outright untruths like patsy. Ramsey wouldn't take a DNA test while she had that came from Boulder. Hold it please from police spokesperson. It was again very wrong a travesty. I just don't know why it will decrease that Robert Woodson was the on call detective supervisor in Boulder in nineteen ninety six and one of the first officers on the scene. He was a part the case from the start. There started to be news leaks within the media so obviously somebody it one or more people were giving the news media information up. Some of it was accurate. Some of it was inaccurate. And we didn't know who was doing doing that. So based on that police department decided to really limit access as far as you know who could have any access to the information information which I clearly understand why that was done unfortunately that then enders an investigation. Because sometimes the APP somebody one detected may have a piece of information that fits with a piece of information that another person has and if you don't on have that communication if it gets basically locked down then it may fall through the cracks in the system. So what happened at that. Point is just a few people became the what I would call the ongoing investigative team and they were the people that had had access to the information for the first four years. After this murder occurred. I was told by detectives that were working at who you did not give any specifics. They just told me the ramseys definitely were involved. That was definitely their focus with the ramseys were involved. And that's what I believe leap for the first four years I think they had group think going on and it was almost like tunnel vision. They were focused on on Patsy Ramsey that became the focus of this investigation. And whether you're making it a point to be more mindful to eat healthier or to learn a new skill there are plenty of ways we can better ourselves in the new year. I can't think of one. That's more important than starting the year off tackling your high interest credit card that AN UPSTART DOT COM is here to help. Upstart is the revolutionary lending platform that offers smarter interest rates to help you pay off high interest credit card debt. They believe you're more than just your credit score so they actually reward you based on other factors like your education your job history in the form of a smarter interest rate and it's fast and easy to check your rate since it's a soft poll. It won't affect your credit score. I checked mine in just a few minutes and I did it right from my phone. It's no wonder over. Four hundred thousand people have used upstart. And how you can't do see why upstart is ranked number one in their category with over three hundred businesses on trust pilot unhurried upstart dot com slash Ramsey to find out. How low your upstart rate is checking? Your rate only takes a few minutes. That's upstart dot com slash Ramsey. Ram Ram Suny. Having simply safe is having enterprise level security but for your own home home think about the type of security that fortune five hundred companies use. They need to know police are going to be on the scene immediately. This is exactly the kind of security security you get with simply safe when a break occurs simply safe uses real video evidence to give police an eyewitness account of the crime and that means police dispatch up two three hundred and fifty percent faster than for a normal burglar alarm outdoor cameras and doorbells. Alert anyone approaching your home. You're protected inside. Hi to with entry. Motion and glass break sensors. Everything's monitored twenty four seven. I live security professionals. And here's my favorite part. You can set up the system all by yourself. No tools required for just fifty cents a day with no contracts simply safe is a small price to pay for having peace of mind. Don't go to simplisafe dot com slash J. B. R. Today to get free shipping on your order plus a sixty day money back guarantee that simply safe. Sim He l. i.. SAFE DOT COM SLASH GS VR to save on home security today simplisafe dot com slash J biard. What began as an oddity? A shock news item about a murder in an affluent part of a sleepy Colorado town soon developed into the biggest story in America and everyone it seemed had an opinion. It is a single single homicide. What is the matter with these people? They should be ashamed of themselves. high-grade whoever the killer was was not concerned they were going to be caught. Boulder Police Department has this investigation while in hand the investigation is in shambles her child beauty pageant pictures and we had no idea that this is going on had been leaked and sold to the media the photographers who took them and it was just audit control. Chaos like with the OJ Simpson case where people were making money people in the media or purported to be in the media were making money having an opinion on the OJ Simpson case. That's what happened on the Ramsey case and there were people who said the RAMSEYS did it. They were public broadcasting broadcasting this or writing it and there were people who were saying an intruder did it but by far the ramseys did it. Case was the one that was the most advanced. That's where people were the most shrill and that's where ratings up because the viewers and listeners were interested that's where people made their money and so they stuck with the ramseys did it. It was really awful. The way the media just I did not do their jobs and made a decision that they were for one or for the other and it was wrong. Very wrong former sheriff's investigator Peter Johnson Augustine when law enforcement you who's not involving homicide investigations on a regular basis is conducting a murder investigation. Uh You can understand. There's there's probably GonNa be some mistakes because they don't do it. They don't do with any level of regularity. They don't understand the dynamics of a homicide case nobody. Nobody can say that. Somebody who's investigated narcotics her. Somebody's investigated burglaries armed. Robberies is the guy or the Gal you you want to go to to investigate a case like this involving the murder of a six year old little girl just can't it can't put that in the hands of an inexperienced individual. You need to have somebody with some familiarity with homicide in how. It's Alan investigation like that. You know how how involved it is and why it's so important. According to do a proper investigation gathering facts what you're about to hear are extracts from a long buried police interview with Patsy Z.. Ramsey an interview. She undertook voluntarily. If you the consider Jon Balka somewhere Germany's not thought there crushed. Never ask me as the is. I'm not saying that he thought about this brander expired or something for months to carry this out. I'm said did you ever for a second thing nine. Maybe there was an accident are there could could. John have accidentally pushed struck John Eventually. In September nineteen ninety ninety eight a grand jury was convened to consider indicting the Ramseys for charges relating to the case we have tracked down a member of that jury. Jonathan Webb I lived in Boulder Colorado in the late nineties. I was a graduate student at the University of Colorado auto and then I was in his up. Potential Juror. The process of of a grand jury is where the prosecutor presents the information. There is no defense lawyers or personnel. There it's simply the prosecutor presenting the evidence us as they have found it. We were allowed to take notes. Ask questions of the witnesses and we saw a lot of information from and everything from individuals that were related to the case to handwriting. Experts to medical experts birt's doing autopsy etcetera. The one thing that really I've never forgotten is the testimony from Pediatric Edgar Forensic pathologist from the University of Miami and the shots of the we saw video and a lot of testimony Simoni and the manner in which someone dies With the type of injuries that Jon Benet had and time on course what is something that will never leave me in one thousand nine hundred nine. After a year of hearing testimony and being presented with evidence from the boulder police the grand jury returned with. What's called a true bill to charge the Ramseys with placing Jon Benet at risk in a way that led to her death breath in layman's terms? Kind of glorified child negligence not murder not manslaughter. Following that Boulder County A.. Alex Alex Hunter announced. He would not be prosecuting. The ramseys on any charges declaring that he did not believe that in a trial he could prove guilty beyond reasonable doubt based upon the evidence that we saw we were told the decision is a preponderance of the evidence or a grand jury which which means over fifty percent fifty point one percent or more that. You think someone might have done it then you vote to indict. That is not beyond a reasonable doubt. The evidence that I saw I if I sat on a regular jury. I would've never convicted anyway anyway because it wasn't to the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt. So I think the. Da made the correct decision. And I was fine with it. I'm fine with the fact that it's still unsolved murder. I don't want that to be misinterpreted but I simply don't believe the evidence was there to convict anyone. It would have been wasted Chase that based upon the evidence at the time Alex Hunter made an announcement on a beautiful mutiple they in boulder and it was chaotic and there were people all over the place live trucks all over the place that was in that era. She walked down the stairs of the district attorney building and walked into a park reporting had been set up an Alex Hunter after the district. Attorney said there will not be charges filed in the Jon Benet Ramsey case and a world exploded because that it's not fat factory. Have you somebody responsible. After the Boulder District Attorney announced he would not be filing charges bowler place then continued to try to find ways to find John and Patsy Ramsey guilty the boulder police department have I said all along. Hey we looked at other people other than the ramseys but their focus remained on the Ramsey unable to proved the ramseys were guilty by means of actual detective work. The police even resorted to underhanded tactics as this Fox News report from nineteen ninety nine shows. I'm John and Patsy Ramsey at home but not entirely at peace the death their daughter haunting them everywhere and they found out there appears to be no refuge or sanctuary. John and Patsy Ramsey had planned to talk to us at Jonbenet's grave site but when they found out that the boulder police had bugged this area near their daughters water's resting place during the investigation. They were too offended to come here. They should have some dignity just disappointing hurt The BOULDER PD may have have been sticking to their theory but for other investigators. The evidence that Jon Benet parents were responsible for her. Death simply didn't stack up. Chief among them was was lead detective loose man who was so convinced of their innocence. He continued investigating the case right up until his death in two thousand ten amongst those who worked with him was John San Agustin so when Leland I began looking at the evidence in this case some of the things that stood out regarding a possible and shooter I think the number one thing was that there was a window that was broken in the basement area. There was a scuff mark along the back part of the wall. There as you're coming you know just just below that window that was broken and partially open and it was also a suitcase that that was perpendicular to that wall. What was interesting about the suitcase? Was that the suitcase was partially opened and there was a piece of glass on on top of that. CK's indicating that possibly somebody said either entered there or possibly tried to leave their now. What's also important about the suitcase is that inside of that was a day and a Dr Seuss Book of which the fibers of which Jon Benet was wearing the morning? She's discovered by her dad. Those fibers or also found inside of the suitcase indicating a possibly. I believe Jon Benet was placed in Saturday. CK's other evidence that shows at possibly there was an intruder. Was that there were marks on Jon. benet dower noted at autopsy. More specifically that there were two stun-gun marks found on her face and on her back back which both injuries were very similar. What we found out Dr Dober- San was that those injuries or consistent with the stun gun? Ah Here's former boulder. Detective Robert Whitson after I retired. I met loose-knit Lou Lou was a detective who had worked over two hundred homicide with ninety percent clearance rate and he had been brought brought in by the District Attorney's office as a senior investigator. For the Ramsey case and Lou became the primary a person to promote what we call the intruder theory. Which is somebody broke into the house and committed this murder? It wasn't somebody within the Ramseys Family Lou and in and out of the window showed how easy it was to get in there. We know the window was easily accessible. Because Mr Angie at rock himself out I can August and broke that window. I went in to get into the House and never repaired. Apparently there was the suitcase that was placed right below the window. It appears to us that the person who was kidnapping her actually was gonna put her in a suitcase and tried to push up through the window to exit. But it couldn't do that because there was just not enough room to push her condenser him to get up inside. The whole thing does not make sense. So it's Christmas night to God fearing parents right are gonNA kill their daughter but what they're gonNA do is they're going to doctor from a room stun gun her twice right sexually assault or with a paintbrush strangle her. You know the manner of death is homicide. Aside cause of death was strangulation but more importantly after all that happens. There's also a blow to her head which covers to acceptable lobes equivalent of a seventy mile on our car crash. So I mean why would mom and dad and then oh by the way. They're gonNA write a ransom note and they're gonNA call the police even though the ransom no says don't call them then going to place her in a room of which just pure luck. None of the officers opened that door right and then a detective comes and tells John Ramsey which will never happen. Hey John go look for things out of the ordinary mobile. He goes down to a door that it was never open by law enforcement. That did two searches of that home and John Ramsey comes across his daughter. I mean the whole thing. You couldn't line up all the stars and moons the right way to get that scenario the play out the other thing is where did all this evidence go to never found the source of the duct tape never found the source of the white cord. The ramseys Ramsey's nobody can say that the ramseys owned a stun gun. You also have the high-tech footprint that was found and the storage room where Jonbenet's body was found. No source for that. Nobody in the Ramsey family had an issues like that bats supposedly none of the police officers or anybody that went there as she was like that. Or they're missing pages from the note pad those. Those were never found there. Was this beaver hair. That was found on Jon. Benet that Lou went through the whole house trying to find their a beaver Harris because they said well. That's Ramsey supposedly has a pair of boots beaver here on ever found any other lever hairs. So there're there were a lot of other fibers and hairs that have never been associated with anybody and then of course you had the DNA the male L. D. N. A.. That was found that we still don't know who's DNA that is in nineteen ninety eight John Ramsey easy frustrated by an investigation seemingly hell-bent on only pursuing he and Patsy wrote to district attorney Alex Hunter through his attorney Brian Morgan and once again reaffirming his willingness despite everything to do whatever it took to find his daughter's killer on December twenty sixth two thousand to in six years to the day after Jonbenet's murder. Mary lacy who had succeeded. Alex Hunter as Boulder County District Attorney. Took over the case within months she to subscribe to lose smits theory that an intruder was most likely responsible for Jon. Benet death and in July two thousand eight. She announced that the Ramseys were excluded a suspects and publicly exonerated them. Here's reporter Paula Woodward Mary Lacy Came Throng on a sex crimes background. That was her area of expertise. Those cases that she studied for years in trying to resolve the geometry Ramsey eighty murder. She looked at with her estimators things. That had not been tested for DNA in the Jon Benet Ramsey case in one of the things she found was a pair of long johns the long johns were sent to the same testing latte the first DNA a from her panties and her fingernails was identified in nineteen. Ninety seven. Anna was identified in the waistband up those long johns does that matched DNA that had been tested in nineteen ninety seven. It was a huge development. Mary lacy then went on to exonerate the Ramseys in a letter that received a lot of criticism. She said the reason Jason that she exonerated the Ramseys after her second. DNA testing match. The first was because the case was on a road road to try to convict the Ramseys and involved the death penalty and she didn't think they were guilty and she felt someone. Commissioner with authority even knows very unusual and highly criticized move should exonerate them. So should give tragically. Patsy Ramsey never lived to receive that exoneration in two thousand and two the ovarian cancer she had. I been diagnosed with in nineteen ninety three returned and she died in two thousand six at age forty nine. She is now buried next to her daughter here. She is speaking into investigators in nineteen ninety eight after the job. A Lot. More pressure for shooting shooting. Investigation the media whether Avenue interview. What what it's going to be aware if there is this gotta wear into the soul search for cope with it? I kind of thought myself. Get too tired contend fall in craw online depressed so I try to manage my health risks. Well Joe we have taken out the under the paper. Not just can't care because recent times that I had inadvertently themes of they learn new thing Ed Collins. I can't that was just like me in John. Ci Out because it's harmful you're watching the former detectives John San Agustin and Robert Whitson also believe that progress can still be made despite the mistakes of the past as we look at this case again. We look at the two theories whether or not there was an intruder who did this. The family and I will tell you that there are a number of investigators who have well over a couple hundred years of experience in and investigations. Who all say that? The murder of Jon Benet Ramsey was not done by the family but by intruders or an engineer. The problem is the Boulder Police Department. Still to this day will not come out and give any information on spend twenty three years I think at this point we need to come out and let people know what have you done. Have you looked at other people. Have you not looked at that other people. What are you doing still today? There are still a number of leads that have never been followed up by law enforcement is my understanding that approximately three thousand leads came into the Boulder Police Department and the onset of this investigation of which still still a number of them have never been followed. My understanding is there were are both fibers. Animal hairs that were never sourced so I had a source of ad here from the suspect. was that ever tested. I don't know they're not seeing anything anything. I was told that one of the neighbors two of the RAMSEYS and reported about a month before John. Benes murder order that there was somebody leaving cigarette butts in their backyard and I was told. Supposedly an officer responded and collected one of those cigarette butts. Now keep in mind this is prior to DNA. So it may have come into propping opinion evidence and because there was no DNA available you know discarded up like it was cap for a while the question is was that DNA from a cigarette butt ever test because we know in the asked that has been one of the methods of operation of sexist suspects where they will be in the area washing doing kind of surveillance of place that they wanNA break into and be out there smoking while they're you're watching the subject song and former grand jury member. Jonathan Webb agrees that DNA will be the key to finally securing justice for Jon. Benet the advances of analytical technology spend Jordan Attic and if money's was educated and the evidence was preserved my belief is and local technology could solve this crime. You'd have to have a dog detective. WHO's dedicated and focused funded well and given the best analytical tools and allowed to do his or her or work and if that is the case I think it would be solved next time on the killing of Jon Benet the final suspects ax discrediting the case against the RAMSEYS? The few people who are left in the Boulder Police Department still believed that John and or patsy Ramsey murdered their daughter. All of the jurors believed that the truth theory didn't hold water. It was almost like tunnel vision Asian. They were focused on Azi Ramsey and long buried recordings of police interviews with John Patsy and Burke Ramsey Z.. Here you know when when can rush the killing of Jon Benet. The final suspects is hosted by me. Danielle Rowe Bay executive produced just by Dylan Howard and Matt sprouts and is a production of broaden water studios and endeavor audio executive producers also include. Tom Freestone Doug Long Genie. Susan Bennett James Robertson and Andy Tillett. The series is written by Dominic reporting by Doug Montero the series is mixed and engineered by Sean on craft and Sam Ada. There is so much more to this story. And you don't WanNa Miss Anything I can assure you subscribe to the killing of Jon. Benet the final suspects wherever you get podcasts. If you have any information that could help our investigators and the ramseys identify jonbenet's killer. Please help us at tips at justice for Jon. BENET DOT COM.

RAMSEYS murder Patsy Ramsey Jon Benet Ramsey Benet Ramsey Boulder Police Department Ramsey Jon Benet John Patsy John Boulder investigator Jon Ramsey family boulder jonbenet Robert Whitson Ramseys Family Lou
125: The JonBenet Ramsey Email

Ghost Town

33:38 min | 2 months ago

125: The JonBenet Ramsey Email

"I spend a lot of time at home. So I'm eating a lot of the same things right now. That's why I love hellofresh. It offers. So many recipes to choose from and each week. It can help you break out of your recipe, right and spoiler alert. They're delicious recipes wage something for everyone including low-calorie vegetarian and family friendly recipes every week with fresh high quality ingredients ninety percent of which come from local Growers to ensure the fresh juice recipes and hello fresh offers contactless delivery to your doorstep for easy home cooking with the family cutting out stressful meal planning and grocery store trips. That's how you know hellofresh is committed to giving back taking extra steps to keep employees and customers safe. Hello fresh donated over two point five million meals to Charities and 2019 and this year is stepping up their food donations. It's easy to see why hello fresh is America's number one meal. I eat everything so very skeptical when Emil kids services like we have so much variety love us. But hello fresh as Twenty-One very different very delicious meal options with a variety of ingredients, so I won't ever get bored. I'm very exciting job. Try the Thai pork spring roll in a bowl and I added some shrimp in there for my protein pack extra go to hellofresh.com and use code to get $90 off including free shipping. Can go to hellofresh.com and use code goes to get $90 off including free shipping. I am the girl Jon Benet Ramsey. I'm Jason Horton. I'm Rebecca Leber in this is Ghost Town. Thursday we interrupt all broadcasts stop your news sources. Stop your social media feeds. This is such a weird week. So we decided to do a weird episode. It's going to be where do I even begin with this? I received an email last week from a friend who works at a very a large entertainment news source, and she sends me this email and I am at work and I don't quite get it and she keeps texting me. Have you seen the email and I'm like what email is this? And I open up this email and I start to read it. I immediately so much Jason I get the email. I'm watching Nightmare on Elm Street Dream Warriors, and I'm looking at the email and the email is so strange dog. Kind of jarring. I thought I fell asleep and I was in a Nightmare on Elm Street cuz it really freaked me out. I know what this was. It's all chopped up. It's a lot of fun. It's a lot we're going to get into English. So this is from again A friend of mine who works at a major entertainment news source, and this email is to CBS. It's too old Cathedral don't know what that is KTLA we've done that Washington Post et cetera CNN all of those things and it starts dear News Channel's slash news stations. I am Jon Benet Ramsey all caps. Please read and forward, please. So again, it's like we're sharing this. Okay excerpt below if from my attached full note report at bottom of email. The kid of different different size font a different font the kidnappers and Margaret and Matthew McConaughey photos below. We're also threatening me and my parents John Ramsey and Patsy Ramsey that my birth parents John Ramsey and Patsy Ramsey would be hostage again in the United States once no longer hostage at Selena Toyota in Romania salt mine where they are still so we've got that and that's just from Jon Benet Ramsay at the email. I am the girl Jon Benet Ramsey, then she sends another email photo attachments reattached to email due to photos not visible sent email copy. I love you. And God loves you. God bless you and we have another email after that email do your news channels? I am Jon Benet Ramsey, please read and forward. I'm forwarding my email with all three of my boss audio reports attached to this email and my text report then there's a kind of forwarded text block with photos and we'll we'll start to go through these I have that you're going to hear this in real time because I have not downloaded the CIA and federal bureau investigative report don't know if you've seen that yet. I did not know I was kind of waiting for us too because we were going to do a another episode completely and this week is a strange week you're in it. Yeah, you know and we were gifted with this strange email and I thought, you know, respectfully we can at least talk about this because it seems like what this person wants and I think it just was a kind of a perfect storm for us. Yeah. I felt compelled to talk about. Yeah, and if you want some context we did a Christmas episode last year about Jon Benet Ramsey and off. Or death and all of the circumstances around it. This is again a departure from that a strange one, but one worth investigating think we got this sent. Well, we got a second because you know your friend know. Yeah. Well, it's interesting and knows this is the Wheelhouse. Yeah, that's our bread-and-butter. In fact, there was an episode was going to do for a bonus episode 4 patreon off and I got a tech it started from a text from my brother. Uh-huh. And then the episode came to me from that and it kind of vaguely include my mother is really strange. Oh my God, it's it's a very odd. We're getting gifts from the universe route be on patreon, Kampai the bonus episodes Early Access, like gotta do this early get bonus episodes Early Access ad free and then you'll get you'll hear that very strange episode. It's up now. Right now great. You're getting this week this week buckle up for some weirdness because we all are and why not have a little bit more to make you feel better cuz at least, you know us, you know, what to expect from us off at least. It's familiar weird, but let's get back to it. Okay, do your news channels and staff newspaper staff. Please read report and forward. I am Jon Benet Ramsey my parents John Ramsey and Patsy Ramsey are probably hostage. I was abducted from them in Nineteen Ninety Six as the 1996 news media report vaguely revealed attached to this email in audio and text report is a couple of photos of the 1996 missing persons media report that was distorted by the 1996 serial killers serial rapists kidnappers and Intruders Matthew McConaughey and and Margaret Smith that fakes their Fame and stole movie scripts also to make believe they're acting earlier and all along that they were actually committed murder and kidnapping in Heist crimes photo attached here. So the first photo we have is the first Google search of Matthew McConaughey, it's you know the wage During then it says and has like four popular photos and has like the Facebook and Wikipedia then and Margaret Smith. Same thing her name its kind of that blue thing panel of photos. I woke is melanin sites toxicity victimized by intravenous medical fraud poisoning that the medical identity thieves used to harm my natural and genetic born light blue eyes, very light blonde hair and white skin. So then we have a still of a YouTube video of the unsolved mystery of JonBenet Ramsey, you know, it's a still video before you start then there's a clip from her Instagram which will get into a little bit later of hashtag. I am Jon Benet Ramsey. I didn't die on Christmas and it's it's a older photographs probably know what it's a pretty popular one of Jon Benet Ramsey and her mom Patsy Ramsey. Then she says photo of her Instagram Then we get to 6:13 2020 my CIA and federal bureau investigative report. When I was working at CineBistro in 2018 CineBistro at the Rotunda in Hampden, Baltimore City wage upper Charles Village area. Matthew McConaughey was constantly being a customer and Ann-Margret Olsson also my biological mother and my biological father Matthew McConaughey were also in Prosthetics. So many times has customers in the theater restaurant that I served at wager saying the restaurant theater job employment and then he bought Matthew McConaughey biological father went to 29th Street Tavern in Baltimore City and Remington area and Cheese Bar 29th each other and they gave me the fake last name Ramsey when I was little kid to pretend that. I was not their child. I was just just another blond white blood girl and then they melon's home. His name me and pretended that I was never Jon Benet. So there are three audio messages involved in this email. We listen to them and think it's fairly repetitive. But the gist of it is Matthew McConaughey and Anna Margaret Ann-Margret Olsson also, but I think that's something that should and Margaret. Okay, just like her actual last name versus just Ann-Margret bye-bye birdie style and Margaret, you know and love her Newsies perhaps if you're like me. Anyway, how's that? They're kind of Matthew McConaughey's biological father and Margaret is a cohort and they kind of raised her and then like kidnapped her and there was also some factual like rape involved in it, and we just it was kind of hard to find a clip. That was not super graphic because I don't think yeah, it's kind of necessary to you know wage. Mention that yeah, I mean listen, if you DM us will send you some info if you want all of this media you can have it. We're just only down for you were doing it down for you. So it's it's about her and again her being trapped by these by these two actors that aren't really actors again. She talks about her parents being her parents and nothing appears also sex work that she does and and dancing a dancer and and yeah exactly and and and being isolated and and just kind of things getting weird and it just feels very claustrophobic. I would say and fairly paranoid and then we get this very long text Memo which talks similarly about the same situation with Matthew McConaughey and and Margaret. I want to read a little a little clip from it to give you kind of a a tone. I oddly had never left my house, even though earlier I recalled leaving my house and lastly seeing someone outside my door as I was in the process of closing slash wage. My apartment door before the person at the bottom of the steps in front of the apartment 1B first floor slash basement-level apartment of the complex, which was down a small flight of only four or five steps. When a biological father Matthew McConaughey was standing there staring at me my food slash juice slash milk slash soda was consistently being roofied and mixed with tranquilizer. I was often unconscious in my bedroom and being trespassed by him and his friends and the time I saw him again in a different time also my apartment in my bedroom closet peering at me from the crack of the closet door without the closet light off on the light was off. So you gotta get a sense of of what Matthew McConaughey is a strange dude. I'm not saying there's any connection here the legitimacy of this or not. It's not for me to say I think it's somewhat a parent but also I like to kind of have an open mind just to respect this person who's put all this together incentive out. Matthew McConaughey is a weird dude and okay. I'm just just just calling out you just Devil's Advocate in here is a strange dude. Okay. Okay. Now if this was somebody we didn't know I'm jumping around he's obviously and iconic figure of solve crime and culture if this was somebody else we didn't know we'd be like hm. Yes, a lot of information. So it's also like I mean, it's just taking it to the media, right? She there's not really like a directive. It's not like a rest Matthew McConaughey. It's not like please advocate for me. It's not there's no real birth. Around it, which again is complicated and you know, obviously there are some mental health issues folded into all this but then we went to because there was one of the pictures in the email was from her Instagram we go to her Instagram. I am the girl Jon Benet Ramsey and it's Jon Benet Ramsey. Her bio is pigmentation sites fraud is evil. I am Jon Benet. I said evil weird. Sorry pigmentation sites fraud is evil. I am Jon Benet Ramsey Google it. I did Google it. So that is open right in front of me. Google. Okay, and I did not find anything except for her Instagram handle. I tried to connect Jon Benet Ramsey to Matthew McConaughey. It's the only time and because they're both cultural figures. Yeah, they end up on the same block as like, you know as a footnote to each other, you know other, you know, if you hear some more stories you might like to see if a game Yeah this one and that's the only connection I made but I implore anyone who's got some free time and down time that wants to look into this further. Yes, please Be Our Guest give you any information you want because I'm really I want to she wanted to spread the word and I want to honor it. We're doing that. We're definitely do that. And again her Instagram. Just just to give you some nation of that. It's a lot of selfish love Starbucks love Starbucks iconography on there, but you're right. There's really no no discernible evidence that attaches her to if if this person is you know, like is Germany Ramsey whatever but I do want to remind everyone that there was that conspiracy theory about Katy Perry being Jon Benet Ramsey door that yeah, you want to do that after a little break. Yeah, like many of you I spent a lot of time at home so often to eat the same old thing day after day and it gets kind of boring to say the least. That's why hello fresh is perfect. Hello fresh offers. So many recipes to choose from each week to help you switch things up and spoiler alert their dog. Just there's something for everyone. There's low-calorie vegetarian and family friendly recipes as well. And they all have fresh high quality ingredients ninety percent of which come from local Growers to ensure the freshest recipe hellofresh offers contactless delivery to your doorstep for easy home cooking which cuts out stressful meal planning and grocery store trips. That's how you know hellofresh is committed to giving back taking the extra steps to keep its employees and customers safe. Hello fresh donated over two point five million meals to charity in 2019 and this year they've been stepping up the food donations. I'm naturally a skeptic. So when it comes to a meal kit service and they claim to have a dog but hello fresh is the real deal 21 very different very delicious meal options with a variety of ingredients. So I will never get bored. I love the parmesan crusted chicken and the apricot glazed grilled chicken with goat cheese zucchini and grilled asparagus. There are 15 minute meal kits if you're in a hurry or if you want to treat yourself, there are delicious time-tested Classics from The Culinary collection. It's easy to see why hello fresh is America's off. One meal kit go to hellofresh.com and use code goes ninety to get $90 off including free shipping again. Go to hellofresh.com and use code goes to get $90 off including free shipping support for this podcast comes from State Farm with surprisingly great rates State Farm is the real deal when it comes to home and car insurance State Farm agents name is ready to help you personalize your insurance plan. So you can create a policy that fits your needs you can manage your coverage pay your bill or even file a claim right from your phone with a State Farm mobile app and you can always call one of the State Farm agents in neighborhoods across the country get a great rate without sacrificing great service when you want the real deal like a good neighbor statefarm is there okay. Hi. Hello. Hello? Hello. Oh boy, are you with us? So you okay what's happening in history? Right now? We're recording this from a couple of days ago. Yeah. It's very close though. Okay, you're listening to us. We Rebecca has been working hard working like a dog and I've just been waiting literally on waving like a dog eating chillies. We had some chilies beforehand. So we sustain ourselves to listen. We needed a nutritious dinner before we make art. What's better than Chili's Bloomin Onion and some chili sliders that were actually like incredibly delicious. I ate some things I could not tell you what they were know you gave me $500 like what do you think? I only know it was fried fried on Friday on Friday. We got a tub a trap plastic trough full of three different fried goods and you want to Mark. Yes, and I had a margarita in the car on the way home from Santa clarina. I didn't drink at all in the car. We got this in Santa Clarita cuz that's where I'm working right now. It's about like half hour north exactly. Exactly. And it's really I don't know if it's a closest Chili's but it's a very accessible. Chili's a lot of Chili's in in like proper Los Angeles proper. Yeah, there's not like chain restaurants. Yeah. I mean like like a Chili's type like thing. But so we needed something wholesome good of this land, you know, maybe somebody could help us with that as maybe some political leaders we could believe in like our mayor's Brandon Gatos. Yeah been for something. That's right Ashley Madison who Jeanette link lover and oh you did a seal the deal drum roll or Governor Prius quit sucking weird with press what we were did some book stuff. We did we were on the Skylight booked podcast. That's right. That was fun. That was very fun. So check out the Skylight books podcast. Yeah. It's a good time and we were on Book Soup. That's right crowd is like a zoom call. Like how was Hoss? It was actually know a lot of people say that facetiously but I mean it it was a really supportive group and Book Soup even my wife was like that's really impressive but she's not anything and she's grew up in La she's like but she's like no that's like an it's an iconic store. Somebody pointed out that Mickey Cohen had a haberdash. It was his Haberdashery. Yeah, someone's giving us trivia as we were off and they were like challenging us about la knowledge as we were talking about. It was a good Double L a knowledge off. It was amazing. So check out books zoup.com. You can find on their YouTube or off, but in speaking of you here, I just put up a new video features Rebecca Rebecca a repackaged remastered Janis Joplin episode a little summary about Janis Joplin some of the audio from the nightwatchman or night clerk. Yeah. I'm talking him side of that terrifying I've remastered and did some fun Graphics actually from David Prager. That he does all the editing and shooting and stuff for me. So and then we take the tour of the room where on the ghost town podcast. I was just that people hate it. I hate us. Yeah straight up do not like us I think because we were so like we were joyful. I think they took it as because we weren't solemn. Okay, we weren't monotone thought we were disrespectful but we wouldn't be there. It was pretty excited me to to be disrespected. I would never do that. I would never disrespect I would never do that cuz it's just not cool. But I also love Janis shop. I love music. I love Los Angeles and we're not going to spend a lot of money to make fun. But I can under the people don't know us I can definitely understand that but there's a link in the show notes, or you can go to YouTube, It's Jason Horton. Give it a thumbs up. Maybe give it a nice, cuz I feel like we're going to get raked through the coals on that one. What is called? It's called the newest one. It's out now just came out Janis Joplin haunted dog. Whatever but it's a a repackage remastered with some extra stuff from our almost. No, two year two years ago. Two years ago did that. Yeah, that's insane. Yeah, and I think that's important too cuz it's such I think you like to play Devil's Advocate a little bit more than I do. But on this it's like it is such a fine line. Like we're obviously excited about these things. We always obviously want to be respectful of them too. And again people coming in cold to the podcast or two videos or whatever media like, sometimes it doesn't read, you know, like quite honest life or it seems disrespectful or it seems callous and we don't ever mean it to be that way. I also you know just from feedback that I've gotten I think people take the fact that somebody's speaking monotone and it's very grave and the music is really Stark that that equals empathy and yeah, that's not true. Yeah and it that doesn't mean it doesn't know but it could be like marketing wage. Exactly. I mean listen, it's it's it's entertainment. It's information. I think people confuse those things and they they see that like, well this this person's being very serious. They care more and I was like, yeah, that's it doesn't say the page still show past like the thing clearly wanted to think something like we're here doing this podcast. We've dedicated a large portion of Our Lives to studying to investigating to discussing these things. We are obviously very interested and invested and appreciative and respectful of these topics. But again, sometimes doesn't read or his strange but like again, we we I mean it and they're not people aren't always wrong when they criticize those Yeah-Oh. In fact a lot of time there Riley on like we were and back then, you know, we were early on and we learned a lot we have a lot more to learn and yeah life or anyone who's listening or or supporting us on patreon or just sharing episodes or if they picked up a book or you know what I mean? Yeah that we're super super thankful for that, but you can find that episode. There's a link on the Instagram. If you want to click it show it some love and beat people to it because once somebody posts something negative, I think people don't waste the time too. They just look maybe look at the video be like, oh, yeah. This looks like something and they just parrot that that's what I noticed. I was like, I'm getting a lot more comments than that on the ghost town podcast where I know you didn't listen to the episode. I think you're just seeing all those comments and you're like, okay. Well that must be now my opinion of it and maybe your opinion but at least watch the video to make that very very strong usually pretty like hurtful and not kind comment. It's not it's not constructive criticism is just like mean-spirited or angry or whatever such as like YouTube and all that for sure for sure. But yeah, I mean just like we're sitting here doing this like we mean, well not that anyone gives a fog out to you know, like obviously we're just putting shit out there and like whatever happens happens, but but yeah, it's it's interesting line that you know, and when we feel that it's sometimes too I do I personally feel like I am particularly gleeful in some things that we talked about or like a little bit naive or clueless and and I take full ownership of that. I think it's very important to say and also important thing is Jon Benet Ramsey. What's happening to her? Is she still alive in what form is it this woman that we got this email from or is it Katy Perry, which is the other predominant home, near ramzi Theory, which I think we talked about in the last episode. I can't quite remember he may have I mean it's not touched upon it under go on. Yeah, there's really not and also like I think we've stuck pretty much the hard facts of the murder case, but people are saying that Katy Perry is a grown-up Jean Benet Ramsey because they would be around the same age and they have similar if you look there's a lot of like Photo comparisons of money. Jon Benet Ramsey, which like You know Katy Perry. It's like oh an attractive white woman from roundish face around his features, you know, I don't know. Yeah, I mean again like I think the make up to like, I think it's very convenient Katie. There's all these different like make-up InStyle whenever that you can find one where like she's in a similar style to Jon Benet Ramsey, but I guess that lines up a little bit, you know, San Diego off Denver Colorado not super far. I forget of Katy Perry had ties to Colorado, but then you know, the performance aspect too is something and I think there's there's more points to that but that is really the only the only like widely-held conspiracy theory about Jon Benet Ramsey that doesn't have to do with her murder specifically read these hashtags on I am the girl took in Ramsey. I almost did but then we went off on a different tangent born blue-eyed blond and white that's interesting hashtag because in a different context off White supremacist, but I don't think that's the case here. She does talk in again in that long text thing about her white and these features a specific features. Yeah, so it's born black and blond and white is the first hashtag hashtag. I know I can live hashtag. I was stolen hashtag. I believe in heaven and health. I think the last one I don't know which ones are direct. I mean I'm assuming they're all direct like four. Her Focus her MO is to spread this awareness about who she is and there's a lot on I mean some of these pictures of her thoughts are very close up, but it's I'm like maybe yeah. No that's it was also mentioning that before I think her profile is kind of JonBenet. I'm sorry, I'll say it because she was she's like Courtney Love meets. Jon Benet. Yeah. I mean if she was like this Seventeen years old Courtney Love. Oh definitely. Yeah kind of definitely has like a nineties. Yeah, like a washed-out kind of grunge. But yeah, I see it. She also I was just looking at her stories loves Paris Hilton loves just Patsy Ramsey interestingly enough. Just just Mom I guess dad being Matthew McConaughey, perhaps and so why would you put that up dog? Her you know abuser and oppressor makes sense. I guess at twenty weeks ago was a very close up grainy photo of her and it's the caption is I am down near Ramsey and there are a lot of Instagram stores. So I implore anyone who can hear the sound of our voices if you can make some connections here. I'm really interested. I mean if she wants to get this word out there. Yeah. She said that a couple of times at the email said Hey listen to I don't want anyone else to know this we wouldn't be talking about. Yeah, even though it's kind of I'm still game a little bit. But yeah, I mean you're sending it to Thursday at once, you know people going to talk about it. But yeah, she she compels us to talk about it. Maybe this is something a little something we can all figure out together if there's someone to figure out there's one here. It looks like it's maybe from a long talk. We're we're venturing into Tick Tock territory. You know what I'm going to crank it up. Oh stuck in a really let's hear I would sounds I don't know what this is. This is not normally how long To do things. I like to really control everything that's going on. Let's see if this point it's super exciting. It's super exciting. Okay. So what are we seeing here? It says Steven isn't that great the UV rays of the Summer sun going to possibly lessen the chance of people getting the coronavirus me Shore. So that's a response to Steven. I don't know who Steven is. It's just a PO vehicle. You could see it on her Instagram. It's definitely odd but it's just odd enough that we're talking about it. Yeah, exactly and it's just not enough that like, I think we everyone can weigh in a similar place of us reacting and getting the information. I also think it's interesting her voice from what we've heard and from that too. It's very infantilized like it's like again keeping the Jon Benet Persona in a way that I think a lot of like, People with mental illness people have an abuse and I'm sometimes not often in certain cases will embody so I think that is an interesting part of it this one amateur from 2019. That's it's a relatively normal attractive good Instagram photo forever, you know better or worse. I I don't know but it says this is not my favorite shirt. I've actually never worn it anywhere. Hashtag sheep Mossimo clothing hashtag war wardrobe cons, hashtag my hashtag my color full purse umbrella, hashtag bathroom modeling kind of a normal post. You know, it's odd to see these mix of post of maybe somebody that is going back and forth from like like I'm just instinctively took something like typical not animal but typical and from there to something else but that email that was sent out is a pretty Intown email information wise I mean in will happy to send it to you, but if you see the tech like the the text file the wall of tastes like an unnatural amount of texts the way you're used to seeing text now on a on a computer. It's just a lot of data. Yeah, it definitely is it's I mean you can again piece together what her story is but I think it is harder to know what the underlying things about this woman are but I'm intrigued you're right. I mean, there's like a picture here of Welch's fruit and yogurt wage gummies where it's like I feel compelled to share this picture of these gummies that I'm really enjoying and then another post of Patsy and Jon Benet Ramsey. It's just switches so quickly from this kind of mundane normalcy to this identity that she has for herself. This photo is pretty weird home. It's just an axe. It's a big black X. Okay. Yeah, and it's a minute. Your enemy is a horse with inner rot. Hashtag problema a fatal hashtag XX. Was that the band x x isn't it the ban like sex as a band The xx the the x is for the eyes and the smiley face is one of those. I don't know but the same thing called The xx and I don't know if it's lyrics to that cuz if it's not it is kind of terrifying. Yeah, that's very terrifying. Maybe we can get some answers from what's up Steve. How's your friend Steve? Who is the only which looks normal from his Instagram account. His name is Stephen Douglas. I used to stay in my room and imagine that there was a camera on the wall and I used to really believe that I was putting on the television show. Okay, I do that now. I mean, that's not nobody's watching the television show that even my own imagination. Yeah. So like we got better things to do we have options next please but his account is private club. He looks like a relatively normal guy with a normal Instagram picture just to whatever but she's really the only person referenced in these Instagram photos wage. Now. Is this something we want to bother this dude about? I don't know. Maybe we should have people way in should we bother this dude? Yeah. Should we should we bother this do cuz he's the one that the voice you heard back. I mean, it's yeah. Yeah, it's just it's again. This is another thing that's why bother I don't really know know like politely say, you know without obviously making anyone laugh because again, this is not something we this is something that was the goal of it is exactly would probably on a high level not us. Probably CNN or something like that. Yeah, are the CNN of Warriors CNN baby now. Yeah. We're the CNN of fried Chili's food. That's right. That's right. Breaking breaking. Yeah. So again, I am Curious George This is again. We're talking with that line. Again that comes back words. Like what is the line? Is it enough that we're kind of talking about and exploring this in a respectful way. I hope and again I hope that comes out even though it is very like a long weekend very perversely fascinating or do we reach out to the sky and and get more information that maybe would be sensitive. But again, the only way we're even discussing this is because she has often get this out there which again I know that she may be suffering from mental illness. I understand that but maybe for us to get more context for this information than we got and if there's any truth to her story, even on a small level, I mean apparently she's doing this to get this word out. I mean she has a story. Yeah, we I, you know what? That story is totally If I could what?

Jon Benet Ramsey Matthew McConaughey $90 Patsy Ramsey Jon Benet John Ramsey hellofresh Margret Olsson Margaret Jason Horton Margaret Smith Rebecca Leber Jon Benet Ramsay federal bureau investigative ninety percent Kampai Katy Perry Charles Village Google Baltimore City
JONBENT: Behind The Scenes Special Episode

The Killing of Marilyn Monroe

34:53 min | 1 year ago

JONBENT: Behind The Scenes Special Episode

"Hard in the police department side was. Hey Ramsey's did did not going to give up. That would be wrong. I want an answer to this primarily for the sake of my children in my grandchildren for twenty three years it is a crime that has gripped the world. A family tragedy almost unthinkable terrible in both detail and consequence the murder of Jon. benet Ramsey shocked the world. She was murdered at just six years old with the circumstances surrounding her death being nothing less than horrifying defying. The child beauty queen was found in the basement of her family home in Boulder Colorado eight hours. After she was reported missing her skull had been smashed and a garage placed around her neck. It remains unclear which proved fatal strangulation or the blow to her head. Investigators who have been focusing focusing on the family home of six year old murder victim. Jon Benet Ramsey have now issued search warrants. I'm a Paul that anyone would think that that John or I would be involved in such a hideous paying US crime. Welcome to the killing of Jon. Benet Ramsey the final all suspects. I'm your host Daniel Roby in this special behind the scenes preview episode you will be brought into the inner circle of the investigative team in a production meeting at the onset of the project. Along with Jon Benet father brother and close friends. Our production team have attempted to find answers to the brutal. Oh murder of the young beauty queen providing an unprecedented and extensive new investigation all in the hope to finally solve one of the most enduring murder order mysteries. The killing of Jon Benet Ramsey. The final suspects will delve into what is every parent's worst nightmare nightmare. Something that you hope never happens to your child. Specially in your own home yet happened to the ramseys twenty three years ago and still to this stay. The murder is unsolved. Here we join Executive Producers Dylan Howard and Matt sprouse as they discuss the Jon Benet case. What are we going to do to try and establish some some sort of finality? Some sort of conclusion for John Ramsey and his family. I think what's exciting about this. podcast is that we have this list. That was left behind by the lead investigator in the case his name was loose. Mit How did loose-knit get to be involved. In the KYW's so loose-knit it was a retired police detective in Colorado and he was brought out of retirement by the district attorney to help with the with the case early on and when he died he had. He had this list list of suspects that he'd been going through for two decades and he was able to cross off or rule out many of those suspects but he had at least ten ten suspects that he could never clear and that he was still pursuing. And now we have lose list and we'RE GONNA use that list to go after the final suspects of course Lew Smith commit before. His death vehemently believed that Jon Benet Ramsey was kill by an intruder and I guess that leads me to the point went many have suspected that John and patsy Ramsey modern Bain responsible for the killing of their daughter. Obviously audience subscribe to that. I have covered this case for a decade and a few weeks ago flew out to where John presently lives in small town in Utah. This is a man in his seventies who remains shattered by the circumstances of his daughter's what is death and how it came to be and in some ways. He blames himself yeah. I was surprised within the first couple of minutes. I realized this guy didn't kill his daughter. He's not covering up for someone who killed his daughter. He's a guy who has been through hell and has found a way to continue living and continue to find answers for his daughter who spending money on DNA. Testing testing of Suspects that cross his mind and we went through this list of suspects and he was blown away at the rate such that we had done. But he said something that so heartbreaking he said to me that Jonbenet was killed because of him and he meant that he believes she was targeted or targeted because of circumstance in small town called Colorado way he just sold his business into a significant company that obviously giving millions and millions of dollars so someone of being jealous of his success and it was a controversial controversial company was a controversial company and it was built by Lockheed Martin yes and it might have pissed off people to the point that that they took out these highness action. Yeah and that's the first time I had ever heard that theory but it makes sense and then he said to me. I live every night knowing that my daughter was killed likely because of me and that broke my heart. Yep Yeah and I think you can see in his eyes that he's he's come to peaceful place but also a place where he before he dies. I think he's seventy five and he said before he dies. He needs to get these answers for his children and his grandchildren He knows that it's too late to get justice in some ways for Jon Jon Benet because someone has has gotten away with this for twenty three years but at least he can go to his grave knowing that he found answers for his family Matt. You you have assembled the team. What are we going to find out who on these people and what is relevant to the case share will? Let's start with Doug on genie. I think he's probably the most important point person we can bring in he's an investigative reporter worked with CBS. For Years Doug Guinea has produced more hours on this case than any other investigative reporter for TV and so he is going to be our man on the ground he knows everybody attached to this case including clued family. He has a trust an institutional knowledge. I think it's important that we talk to him because he provides an insight like no one else Doug thanks very much for joining us on this behind the scenes episode firstly. I want to ask you this. Why are we still fascinated with these kayce? 'cause it's unsolved because there's still a large group of people who think that the parents are responsible for Johnny's death or someone in the family and here's the other big group of people who think that intruder broke into that home on Christmas evening and wrote a ransom note and killed a six year old girl in it remains unsolved in at at the time I think maybe because of the the beauty pageant videos it went national and back then we didn't call it viral but it went viral and it remains viral. This is a story that everyone thinks they know. But the killing of Jon Benet the final suspects as a story. They I don't because we have access to lose smits archives essentially we're going to be taking listeners into a whole new investigation and investigation that has a very lofty goal in mind and that is to try and solve this case. How important importance loose Smith Information? It's critical it's so important. I mean this is the guy who even on his deathbed Ed was telling family members names of suspects that he wanted checked out. He spent a good part of his latter years both breath when he was working for the district attorney in Boulder and then after he'd left there and was retired from any active police force but continue due to investigate this case and compiled a list of suspects. Some pretty scary people on that list. Do you tell us a little bit. About how lose spreadsheet was organized. It's just not random He didn't write down his thoughts of how he organized it in any detail but there are a lot of names on that list a lot of names and he prioritized and he also was looking at had. DNA been taken had they cooperated. Had anybody spoken to these people anybody. Anybody investigated these people a lot of time. The answers was no no one had spoken to these people not the DA's office not the police department not the boulder police and he prioritized the names on these he's lists and we are looking at some of the top priorities on his list. Unfortunately in life he ran out of time. We have the benefit ahead of time. This list really is the Kedah cracking the case. Is it fair to say that the killer's name is almost certainly written on that spreadsheet. I think it's fair to say that the killer's name is on that spreadsheet. Uh Whoever said it's all about the journey probably never traveled during the holidays. It's the worst time of year to hit the road or skies and yet it's almost always unavoidable. That's why aways products are designed to make your travels smoother for the holidays and Beyond and away offers a range of suitcases made from different materials. That come in a ton of colors and to carry on sizes. So whether you just need to pack the essentials. Were you need room for gifts away. has you covered. I have the bigger carry on from away and I love it. It has a ton of space but it still fits in most overhead bin. So I don't have to worry about checking my back at every suitcase comes with four three sixty degrees spin wheels for the smoothest ride even at the most hectic airports travelling during the holidays holidays is crazy. The getting away can make every trip a lot. More seamless visit away travel dot com slash Ramsey to learn more. And if you're in the contagious. US US order by noon. On December nineteenth for free expedited shipping and delivery by December. Twenty four th for additional last minute holiday shipping details check out their website away. He traveled dot com slash Ramsey R. A. N. S. E. Y. and again ordered by December nineteenth for free delivery by December twenty fourth and visit away travel dot com slash slash Ramsey for details. My health is something that I don't like to take chances with what you put in an an on your body matters and that includes deodorants. I use native because it's made without aluminum parabens and talk and it works. I've tried a a lot of other aluminum. Free deodorants and so far native is the only one that works for me there. Formula contains simple ingredients. You can pronounce like coconut oil and Shea Butter. You know exactly what you're putting on your body and it comes in a wide variety of sense for men and women. They also have unscented and Baking Soda Free Formulas for those with sensitive incident skin. I have the coconut vanilla. Their most popular set. And it smells Nice and fresh. Without being too overpowering native has over nine thousand five star reviews and with free returns and exchanges in the US. There's no risk to try it out for twenty percent off your first purchase visit native Deodorant Dot Com and use Promo code killing feeling during checkout. That's native deodorant. Dot Com Promo Code Killing for twenty percent off your first purchase off. We are going to introduce you to another character. Who has vein involved in this story from Diwan really and Doug both you and I have our own interesting connections funds to this individual an individual whose existence I began online under the pseudonym Jameson? What can you tell? Tell me about Jameson. Who she first of all and why did you get involved in this case is she is a housewife? A mother lives in a southern state and saw this story and it hit her. I hit her for personal. The reasons of which I don't really know all up immediately. She started blogging. On this case and people started to pay attention. She wondered if it was an intruder and or if it was the family members over time she came to know Lou Smit and others involved in the investigation and believe that intruder was responsible for it and has overtime collected a great deal of material. I think of her as the Encyclopedia of this case Doug. What was your first initiation to her? I first initiation was in nineteen ninety eight. She had been named by a professor at an Ivy League school as a possible suspect. In the case he had done some analysis of her writings and had come to the conclusion the very very very wrong conclusion that she was somehow a suspect in the case in we learned of this as I was doing a series of stories. He's on the case and I met with her for the first time in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight in Boulder Colorado and she told me in her story and we did her story sense then. I have used as a resource over the years. Time and time In time again and I too have traveled to her hometown and I to have set either in her whole or in a hotel room or the library uptown and looked at listened to and watched the things she's collected and it's remarkable what she's collected so not not only was she not the murderer but she became like you said the encyclopedia and Lou Smit would actually call her to fact check. Isn't that right and and John Ramsey still does. Yeah over that time you know a a blogger who's a bit anonymous at times and you wonder right I mean are they straight are they bending things are they twisting facts to a certain advantage. She she is a straight shooter. She's collected what she's collected from sources all over the country and people send her things. It's remarkable remarkable. What she gets in the mail and she tells you about it? She trusts you. loose-knit trusted her and they engaged in numerous conversations over the years and she visited him in Colorado and he trusted her. He trusted her so much that he add this valuable list of suspects and he gave her access to those to a spreadsheet. And that's what we're working with. Well I think it is finally time to on mosque jonassen. Let's give her a call Jamieson. I am isn't show. We know all the facts. The ramseys have been accused of this murder. Burke Ramsey has been falsely accused of this murder. There it was a witch hunt surrounding in my view John and Patsy Ramsey. But we're in a unique position. Now Jameson it's two two thousand and nineteen and we have access to new enhancements in technology. Dan Is it's very important in this case. Why is it? There is no innocent explanation or any foreign mail. DNA to be found on her body for on her clothes under her nails and especially not co mingled old with the blood spots from the sexual assault that were found in her panties. There's no innocent explanation for that. DNA to be in any of those places places. It does not belong to anybody in her family which means that someone who sexually assaulted her that day left their DNA there and it's important to find that person and it's also important to know that he nineteen ninety-six not only was Technology Bailey available to properly testimony of saint or. I suspect that mistakes by the ball deep payday meant it simply wasn't used to its full capabilities and now with the advantage and enhancements of DNA technology that we saw with the Golden State Killa and how that unsolved case this was solved. We're really in a unique position. We're in a great position because we know that there's more. DNA evidence that needs to be tested and what still needs to be tested in this case for DNA. Okay some of the items that were taken as evidence were sent to boaty and they sent them. I'm back and didn't test them. And they those items need to be brought back to the lab and retested using the better knowledge that we have. Are we going to get asked. But how are we going to get access to those well. One Way. We're not gonNA physically get a hold of these items which could include fluid. The garage The handled it was used as under garage. Which of course someone's hand was on? So why wouldn't you test that. We're not go and physically get a hold of that but loose Smith has a daughter and daughter along with some of his former colleagues are are trying to get those items tested. They sit with the Boulder Police Department. They are trying to pressure the Boulder Police Department into doing the right thing and getting goes critical items critical pieces of evidence tested. But why why were. They not tested twenty years ago. That's sounds crazy. It's a murder scene. They found enough. DNA to know that someone outside of the family was there and they have five more pieces of evidence that could have been tested and they just didn't do it. Oh that's that's an easy answer. They know who did it they gotten DNA back and the rams and family my good fit the foreign DNA. That was Jon Benet panties that stop anybody from believing that the family did it. No and they're they hit the information from the District Attorney's Office the Boulder Police Department at the report saying that. DNA belong to a foreign person person and they didn't tell the district attorney's office. They did not tell Smith they did not tell anyone. They hit that secret for months and months and months launch in to me. That's criminal in itself and I understand. I understand back then when they would probably embarrassed and they've already pointed the finger at the family and they they couldn't Sort of on. Go down that path but it seems like now there'd be a whole new group of people at the Boulder Police Department at at the DA's office. Why this minute let me? Just let me just say what everyone should be saying. If Lou Smith spreadsheet exists why why is the Boulder Police Department. Not doing what we're doing we're podcast producers. And we're left to do the research that they won't do. They told told me number one. They have other cases new cases and vital cases that they feel they can do better work on and and that's their priority number two the funding. They've spent so much money on the Ramsey case. They really don't have that much money three they. They don't feel that they can properly ever get a conviction in this case even if they find intruder they're always intruders lawyers gonNA stab Ab. They said the RAMSEYS did it. And so they don't feel that they'll be able to get an addiction. So why bother the thing that you need to note is the same people that have not solved this case. Twenty two years are the same people in charge same elites that were there day one day to day fifty day one hundred are still there in charts so they must have been like in their twenty like they must have just been starting their career back in ninety six ninety seven this you know. They hadn't been a murder in boulder. Oh to Colorado of a kid like this that will foreign to how to deal with these type of crowd a few days after the murder they bring in John Andrew Ramsay Ramsey. That was John Benitez older brother. He was a sophomore at the University of Colorado at the time they bring him into the Boulder police station. They put him in a room and he is hoping that now. The police are going to solve the murder. Sister to police officers come immune. He's sitting in the chair. They sit down. They hand him their cards. Their business cards police business cards one card. It says auto theft one card says narcotics. Neither of those cards say homicide and he thinks Oh my oh my God what's going to happen. I think that that's something. They had no idea what they're doing. And the other thing in boulder the time is is it people would be rotated into the appointment of being a detective so everybody got a chance at the better hours in the little. Better pay I I guess And it just happened to be St Thomas's turn to rotate into being a detective. This was the first case he got in the only. Let me comment homicide. The he had ever worked on as most of US found out the hard way. Getting into debt is easy especially around the holidays. It's getting out. That's the hard part and it can be even harder when your credit score is in great thankfully now there's upstart dot com. It's a revolutionary lending platform. That knows you're more than just your credit score. The look at the full picture like your education and Job History and reward you in the form of a smarter interest rate and associate of mine. Used up start to help L.. Pay Down some major credit card bills after her wedding and she did everything from her phone. It only takes a few minutes and once alone approved. Most people get their funds the next business day so why not free yourself from the burden of high interest credit card debt and combine everything into one monthly payment with upstart see why upstart is ranked number one in their category with over three hundred businesses on trust pilot and hurried up. START DOT com slash Ramsey to find out how. Low your upstart raiders. Checking your rate only takes a few minutes and won't affect your credit. That's upstart dot com slash Ramsey R. A. M. S. Z.. Y. In the week after the holidays brings the heaviest caseload for police families are usually traveling and burglars. No people leave expensive gifts lying around the house. And what's crazy is that only one in five homes have home security probably because most companies don't make it easy between the high monthly fees and long term contracts contracts. It's often just way too expensive. That's why simply safe is my top choice. Prices are always fair and honest starting at just fifteen bucks a month there's no contract or hidden fees. It's comprehensive professional home security at a fair price and right now is the best time to get it for the holidays. They're offering offering a huge discount on your security system and a free security camera go to simplisafe dot com slash. JV are now to take advantage of simplisafe's amazing holiday savings and get a free hd security camera this offer is for a limited time only and it's ending soon so hurry that simply safe Sim p.. L. I. SAFE DOT COM slash. JPR To save big and get a free security camera simplisafe dot com slash JPR Documentation John Andrew A short time ago I mentioned earlier. That this podcast sees in many ways the father and sons crew sign an attempt to try and find answers to the brutal murder of their daughter and sister. He's the lesser known brother in this case Berko Veasley seemingly has the high profile as he was falsely accused. What can you tell me about John Andrew? Why he's Bane in the background? And how you and Matt and I want to ask Matt is able to convince him to participate in the killing of Jon. Benet the final suspects. Let me tell you what I know about John. Andrew Ramsay he grew up in Atlanta. He was a child Born born in John Ramsey's first marriage and it was John Andrew and his older sister. Beth John Ramsey's he's daughter. Beth unfortunately died in an automobile accident in Michigan many many years ago so that left John Andrew and his mom Tom in Atlanta. When John Ramsey took a job in boulder and they were divorced by them John John Andrew decided once he graduated from high school to go to the University of Colorado in Boulder and did go there so he was living in Boulder? When all of this happened As a at that point as a sophomore at the University of Colorado and as I said he expected the police to do their job he understood that a family is often in early suspect in the case which is everyone everyone knows is what happens and he knew that would happen but he knew that his family had done anything wrong at not killed a family member and you expected the police to do the right thing. He stayed however in the background. John Andrew is not the only sibling of the Ramsey family. Suffering from this was tragedy. He had a sister he had two older sisters Beck who died in a car accident and Melinda Melinda had a boyfriend Stuart Stewart and she had spent that Christmas with Christmas Eve and everything with Stuart in Atlanta Sheen. Gene Jenny Andrew. We're headed Christmas now. She's since married. Stewart and Has a family and to protect her children. Do not have the Ramsey name. She has remained quiet. I mean she has suffered. She has heard enough. She lost her baby sister. She watched her father and stepmother. They're accused she is hurt and she has remained by Pacini Andrew his sided. Now it's time to come out when I met with him. The first time He was almost apologetic to even think that he could have a voice in this story he said for years. He's always thought of this as a tragedy that happened to do Jon Benet but then secondly to patsy and John and Burke and he felt like he was outside of that circle And and I think it's taken him this long to realise that his voice may be the most important voice now because he was his brother and he does want to see the truth. Come out and he's just far enough removed that he he doesn't have where it can't be perceived that he has an agenda other than finding who killed his sister. It's been more than two decades of Hell Hell for John. Andrew Ramsay. He's participation in this. podcast proves one thing this is not a retelling of a very very tragic and sad story. It is as we promised to John and John Andrew an active investigation of the case. Not only that. We're very confident that this will be the most comprehensive investigation conducted since the flawed investigation from the Bulb payday now team when I want no stone unturned or no laid on followed I personally talk to one. Man Montero Doug Monteiro is the best investigator that I know. Monteiro has agreed to participate in this. And he's a veteran reporter here in the a New York newspaper saying Montero. What do we need to do as part of this investigation? We need to physically track. Some of these suspects down Get in their faces and confront them and see if during heated questioning that they at any point it will provide us with some sort of an answer as to whether they are responsible for this young girl's death and we need to get DNA Friday. You do that in the field and by field. I may not investigating ties the best way to do that is by conducting long hours of stakeouts waiting being for them to either drop cigarette on the floor or throw a cup of coffee into the garbage. Can it's really undercover detective. Work you and I have talked Montero about not just the names of the suspects but the categories they fall in like they're part of the pageant seeing the beauty pageants seeing. They were photographers. They did some John Benitez photography the other children photography in that group. Remember we they. What are the kinds of people were finding but are the crimes rhymes that some of these people have been accused of or convicted of? There is a pattern of behavior in a lot of these suspects that we're looking at Particularly a a few of them who were pageant photographers that have subsequently been arrested for some form of child pornography. Okay so Doug Watson step first step is to get on an airplane in Golden Colorado specifically the go-to boulder older and to check out. Knock on doors. Some of these suspects that are in boulder. Some of these suspects are another parts of Colorado bill and knock on their doors and also speak to the Ramseys to both John Ramsey and John Andrew Ramsay. I must say team. I think we're are in a unique position. He had find some answers with loose. Smith's list of suspects you all the team that put together the resources available to us and the advances in technology. Crucially for the Ramseys we are going to be able to either rule in and or rule out certain suspects and that is a giant step forward in unequipped. What the ball to pay day says a cult sky's not actively investigating it from the very beginning when the FBI did get called? They said that a child of six. It doesn't make how many enemies child of six of made the killing of Jon Benet. The final suspects is going to be partly procedural part murder mystery. Each episode will be a real life real time search for the truth and no one will escape scrutiny as we attempt to put right one of the modern ages most monstrous wrongs join us. And listen to the killing of Jon. Benet the final suspects narrated by me. Danielle Robie as we answer her enduring question. Who Killed Jon Benet Ramsey? The killing of Jon Benet. The final suspects is hosted by means Danielle Rowe Bay executive produced by Dylan Howard and Matt sprouse and is a production of broaden water studios and endeavor audio executive producers also include. Tom freestone Doug Genie. Susan Bennett James. Robertson Andy Tillett the series written by Dominic Button reporting by Doug Doc Monteiro. The series is mixed and engineered by Sean Kravis and Sam Ada. There is so much more to this story. And you don't WanNa Miss Anything. I can assure you subscribe. Subscribe to the killing of Jon. Benet the final suspects wherever you get podcasts.

Jon Jon Benet Jon Benet Ramsey murder John Andrew Ramsay Ramsey Colorado John Man Montero Doug Monteiro Boulder Ramsey RAMSEYS Jon Benet John John Andrew Matt sprouse US Jon. benet Ramsey Benet Patsy Ramsey John Benitez Boulder Police Department
JONBENT: Business Grudges

The Killing of Marilyn Monroe

22:44 min | 1 year ago

JONBENT: Business Grudges

"Here's a photograph labeled twenty three twelve and just for cameras Brunson graph of real maisy found the scene and the something the kind of caught our attention from the standpoint of work on this and take a look at that. That's weird well ready note in three phases one. who was a guy from I? I was hard. What you have just heard is part of a police interview? You conducted by Jonbenet's father John Ramsey and lead detective loose-knit in the late nineties. They were discussing. A defaced photograph of John Found after after jonbenet's murder a photograph in which he was accepting a Boulder Colorado entreprenuer of distinction award could. His daughter's killer had been motivated by a business. Scratch where was it was found in the house. I'm not sure of the exact locations of morning you know you. Oh I'm sorry to say was found in the house residence. What are you seeing? That picture of Sir. Have you ever seen her before the tow have. Can you describe the writing. Looks a copy of Theresa's border kind well L.. I mean this was a very nice events a nice war. It wasn't a big deal for me. I don't even know we stayed in stuff as as bizarre away from you. It just shows a heart Lucia quite figure out with his face. Usually I think we the after picture. Well I think that you like but it's written munger futures. Well yeah most picture. This is John Ramsey well. I subscribed John Douglas's theory John. Douglas it is the fellow that set up the FBI. Crime profiling program is probably the world's expert in that field. He looked at our case and came back and said this was not about Jon. Benet this was against you John. Some of these either really ambridge you were Joseph. You in wanted hurt. You welcome to episode six of the killing of Jon. Benet the final suspects. I'm your host. I Danielle Robea. We've put together a new team of investigators led by season reporter. Doug Lunn Jeanie and Jon benet expert Jameson to track down. A list of ten suspects led by Detective Smith before he died and possibly finally solve a murder that has baffled the world since one thousand nine hundred sex in this episode. We're on the trail of two men. Both with professional grudges against John Ramsey. I can imagine I read anybody money. That angry I mean it's unbelievable. He saw you may not even known. They made his to be observed you've from afar. We were in the paper. The couple of weeks before Christmas Our company's name was achieving sales. School that we were proud of you know they had my. I don't picture with Ed. My Name's early in Edo so it was so boring for me to to think that this was because of something I'd done or said or how I treated someone. But he said you may not even know higgins competitor. That is Su- survive. 'cause we did well that's that's possible I don't know that would have been Jon. Benet was found dead in the cellar of the Ramsey home on the day after Christmas. Nineteen Ninety six. Initially John and Patsy Ramsey believe their daughter had been kidnapped after patsy woke to find a long ransom note on the staircase. The note had a very specific demand for money. Here's Doug Lumbini. You Know Jameson. The ransom note says quote. You will withdraw hundred eighteen thousand dollars from your account. Then it goes on to describe the what types of bills the hundred and eighteen thousand is but one hundred and eighteen. Thousand is a pretty odd number and I understand it. John Ramsey during nineteen ninety six earlier nineteen ninety-six had gotten roughly that amount as a a bonus for his work that excess graphics through Laki. That had a seem pretty suspicious to the police. I I really don't understand. And why because if I had just had a party and advertised world had new story saying business had passed a billion with a B. A billion dollars in sales that year are people in my community. Knew I was rich and he was. He had over seven million dollars. I would not pick a silly amount. Like one hundred and eight hundred thousand dollars for ransom. I would wanNA tell the world. My daughters were a million or a true. I thought that the amount being one hundred in eighteen thousand made it look like a bogus ransom knelt and his fire is that amount is concerned to begin with. We don't know for sure sure that that's where the hundred thousand on from. Maybe it's a guy's house number or is electric building a month. We don't know for sure what it was but Hello John Ramsey bonus in February. I leave in eighteen nineties. One hundred and eight hundred thousand one hundred seventeen dollars and fifty cents. It was listed on every pay stub for me up until the time of the murder and John Ramsey. Their house was kind of cluttered. Anybody wanted creepy. Be Crawling in that house and go look around information on the RAMSEYS spending it. I think most people would look at amount for a bonus as being almost insulting. People are struggling to get by and he bonus of that and I think our person saw and was angered by it and when he wrote this August note because the head waste time before they got home. Instead of did I think that when he picked reince momentum. It was a stab at John Ramsey. As John Ramsey you could not even stay here daughters length but the cost of board bonus I think it was a slap in the face never to intended via ransom but just slap in takes in every night. Local police departments across America received hundreds of calls from burglar alarms the vast majority of the time. They have no idea whether the alarm arm Israel all the alarm company can tell them is the motion sensor went off simplisafe. Home security is different when a break occurs simply safe uses real L. video evidence to give police an eyewitness account of the crime and that means police dispatch up to three hundred and fifty percent faster than for a normal burglar alarm outdoor outdoor cameras and doorbells to anyone approaching your home. You're protected inside too with entry. Motion and glass break. Sensors peace of mind comes from from knowing peace of mind comes. Knowing everything's monitored twenty four seven by live security professionals plus even protect you from fires water damage and carbon monoxide poisoning visit simplisafe dot com slash J biard. You'll get free shipping and a sixty day risk-free trial you've got nothing to lose. Go so now and be sure you go to simplisafe. Sim p. l. i.. SAFE DOT com slash J. B. R.. So they know our show sent you that simplisafe dot com slash J. B. We are. We're well past the start of the New Year and and it's easy to fall back into old habits and forget our resolutions especially when it comes to money as most of us have found out the hard way getting into debt is easy. Getting out of debt is hard especially if your credit score is in great thankfully upstart dot com is here to help. Upstart is the revolutionary lending platform form. THAT OFFERS SMARTER INTEREST RATES TO HELP YOU pay off high interest credit card debt. They go beyond just your credit score when evaluating your credit worthiness they actually reward. Are you based on other factors like your education and job history in the form of a smarter interest rate plus they make it fast and easy to check your rate since it's a soft pull it won't affect your credit score. I was able to check mine right from my phone. It couldn't have been easier and only took me a few minutes. It's no wonder over. Four hundred thousand people have used upstart start and now you can to see why upstart is ranked number one in their category with over three hundred businesses on trust pilot and hurried up star Dot Com slash Ramsey. He'd find out how low your upstart rate is checking. Your rate only takes a few minutes. That's upstart dot com slash Ramsey. Ram Se y UH Perhaps the one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars demanded in the note was just an arbitrary number. Perhaps it was just is picked from a pay stub left lying around the house or perhaps it really was a deliberately chosen slap in the face for John Ramsey from someone with a business grievance. It's against him or his Computer Services Company access graphics. This is another interview with John Shortly after the murder Eh. The follow on was He said looking back on it. The article access graphics was mistake but at the time you had awesome every engine about it. What was your reaction to? This was a good feeling. That was the idea that this which well well we were doing that. I didn't want that attention. Basically just got hang with. Someone is tweet. Don't do what was wrong. The attention business doesn't bother you this buying find your these aren't we had maybe one talker Lizzie is useful to your. It's I was. I'm not that usually Rosolino life that kind of person that went to be a person and I felt it was being boastful. It was it for you personally. Attention or your hair. Nothing in particular but I just was starting. We were starting to be more visible and Every time we listen I go get sued. You're becoming a bigger target. For whoever wanted they charge unless midst final list of ten suspects. There are two names that stand out. As having business related grudges against John Ramsey. One of those people is a man who's own computer software company had gone under due to the competition from access graphics. He also had some very disturbing accusations made against him him in the years following. Jon Benet Murder Doug Long Jeanie and Jameson sat down with John Ramsey and detective Smith case file to discuss his possible motives. Unfortunately one of the suspects discussed has never been publicly named the Jon Benet murder case and for legal reasons we have had to remove his name from the episode episode. One of the guys that is guiding says here now just had a known grudge against the ramseys due to being put out of business by John Ramsey K. He then working for a software company. Maybe even in win your business came into town plus That would be the motive. I could not see in loose files that anything had been done as far as handwriting fingerprints. Or anything like that. We need to explain the loose spreadsheet has names and then has kyle's a rose for alibi what would it be tested. Nothing was done on this man Deaths the reason why he's on my list because he was he just looks like a person they had the background in every from tippy it was a quote competitor at the very least we need to try and talk to the suspect who appeared on loose mitts original possible suspects list. Monteiro has a lead on his whereabouts and tries to call him. We've disguised the voice in the call for legal reasons world. You're working on a story on a Jon Benet Ramsey. Well we're working with a bunch of investigators and at one point they were looking at you for having a possibly being involved with that case worker. Okay well what happens is sometimes windy. Windy a high profile crime. You get a lot of people that start calling in tips and they start turning people in and I guess at some point someone had called up and in Accused you of Molesting a kid. So that's how your name came up on the radar screen with these cops and investigators while you then situations like this. You always gotta go straight to the Horse's mouth so I figured you know what I call you up and I'll talk to you and see what's going going on I mean. Have you ever been accused Molester. Somebody Margareta answered talker relevant digital. Well look you gotTA figure out not as to why your name POPs up on investigators files for the Jon Benet Ramsey case royer. I accused of molesting my children and then an agency to look into it. Ghana rated me including records so social service mortgage into it and my children lived with me and he subsequently come out that they were both coached. They remember being coached whether mother Tom Curb. Freakish wise and okay Purdham over all right. And then everything went through the the county court and there's papers air indicating that it's These if these were false allegations correct they as much as I love researching and talking to you all about true crime. Even then I need a break sometimes when I need to unwind and refocus. I liked to do puzzles to help me. Relax and lately I've been playing best means it's a a game. You can download right now for free on your smartphone. It's a match three puzzle game so you know the kind where you match three colored objects in a row but invest fiends. There are these cute little. Oh characters you can collect that help you advance in the game. It's a great way to unwind without shut my brain off and it's challenging without being too tough to the point where I get frustrated straight it. You know it's free to download and if your friends have it to. You can connect to your facebook. You can see where they're at in the game perfect if you're competitive engage gager brain with fun puzzles and collect tons of cute characters. Trust me with over a hundred million downloads. This five star rated mobile puzzle game is a must play download load best fiends free on the apple APP store or Google play. That's friends without the best teams in the years before Jonbenet was murdered John as CEO and president of access graphics fired. One of his employees named Sandra Henderson after a financial scandal. Here's former boulder resident. Michael Kish who was friendly with Sandra Henderson's ex husband. Bud Sandra who was a heavy duty major league. Petty Embezzler was suspect and her boyfriend and then apparently sheep. You fingered her former husband Bud and but a new pretty well. I knew both of them through a a Conservation Charitable Group in town and. She had taken taking money from that group. This well I was on the board of that group when she embezzled from it and she's jail at one. Oh that was after. I knew her eventually eventually. She got caught where she went to jail. Here's reporter and Utilit- so Sandra was operations manager of Henderson Tech back which was ordering equipment from access graphics. She was in charge of paying the bills and keeping the books bicycling and then in Nineteen ninety-one access Sydney placed a credit hold Henderson technology. After they had discovered they were owed one hundred forty five thousand dollars in unpaid invoices but Henderson claimed to have been completely ignorant of the unpaid money and when he was shown a promissory note with his signature on it he said that wife Sandra must have forged his signature. So this is where it gets. It's a bit financially technical. But in brief the Hendersons owed access graphics hundred forty five thousand dollars but Henderson say's Sandra agreed to pay off the debt then defaulted after a single payment. After it was discovered that she had tried to alter the Henderson tech account at access graphics to delete the outstanding balance. John Ramsey Ramsey fired her access for one hundred thousand dollars from the company that under them and the balance of forty thousand dollars was supposed to be paid by bird. Sandra Henderson only paid four thousand thousand dollars and then nine hundred ninety five they divorced and the remaining thirty six thousand dollars were split between them. Eighteen thousand dollars each the whole thing was very messy messy but in a nutshell. I think Sandra despite being very clearly in the wrong phobic John Ramsey heads in some way ruined her life. Our team put put that question to John Ramsey. Well one of the untold important things to look for a motive in any killing and this one person worked for my company was caught embezzling fair amount of money and we terminated her she eventually might understanding was was onto another company did the same thing and then was put in prison so we thought well there's a a motive for a relative husband angry whomever got her put in prison and so there was some interest in siblings. Assembling 's one sibling left town fairly quickly after the murder went to France and stayed to monitor two years. That's pretty bizarre coincidental. Yeah maybe but circumstantially it OUGHTA raise red flags. which did rush the next time on the killing of Jon Benet the final suspects so I started looking around and when the ransom note came out I started picking up little pieces of paper that had his writing on there and I started to put a little book together and I convinced myself that he wrote the ransom note? So that freaked me out. I I sent off some letters. All the other people to see if they could analyze the handwriting for free but You know that kind of backfired on me they. They are go maybe I was. There's a killer. They looked at my handwriting. It said all he could have written ransom note in the killing of Jon Benet. The final suspects is hosted by me. Danielle Rowe Bay executive produced by Dylan Howard and Matt sprouts. And is a production of broaden water studios and endeavor audio executive producers also include. Tom Freestone Doug Lunn Guinea. Susan is in Bennett James Robertson. Andy Tillett the series is written by Dominic gutten reporting by Doug Montero the series is mixed and engineered by Sean Crave of it and Sam Ada. There is so much more to this story. And you don't WanNa Miss Anything I can assure you. Subscribe to the killing of Jon Benet. The final suspects were ever. Are you get podcasts. If you have information that could help investigators and the ramseys identify jonbenet's killer. Please email us at tips at justice for Jon. BENET DOT COM.

John Ramsey Ramsey Jon Benet murder John Ramsey Jon Benet Ramsey Jon Jonbenet John Bud Sandra Jameson Patsy Ramsey Benet John Douglas Sandra Henderson Ramsey John Found reporter Colorado Detective Smith
JonBenet Ramsey ////// The Family

True Crime Garage

1:22:12 hr | 1 year ago

JonBenet Ramsey ////// The Family

"The park has network is rereleasing forty. Five classic episodes from their critically acclaimed series. Remarkable lives tragic deaths as part of a new limited series. Famous fates. Famous face will tell amazing. Stories of some of history's most influential lives and shocking deaths from Maryland. Row and Harry Houdini to Vincent Van Gogh L. Capone. These episodes are all free and only available on spotify go to spotify dot com slash famous fates and follow. Now Jon Benet Ramsey. She was trained the Little Miss Colorado victim the Jon Benet Ramsey unknown intruder Robin Ramsay still not interview the parent blue from that. I The more responsible in two thousand and six former schoolteacher John. Mark Karr confessed blue to the nineteen ninety-six strangulation of Jon. Banana and graphic sexual detail on August seventeenth two thousand and six Thailand authorities arrested John Mark Car a forty two two year old American teacher. He'd been living in Thailand on the Lam after facing child pornography charges in the US car had been e mailing mailing a Colorado professor and was making incriminating statements about his involvement in Jonbenet's death. The Boulder District Attorney's office wanted to charge him with murder. He was extradited back to the United States and brought to Boulder Colorado to be arraigned for her murder. This this from August twentieth two thousand and six from CNN dot com a video titled in Cars Own Words. A reporter ask I am with the Associated Press. Can you give us a brief statement car. Replies I I love Jon Benet and she died accidentally reporter reporter ask are you an innocent man. Car Says No what happened car replies. Her death was an accident so you were in the basement. Mint car says yes the reporter asked. Can you tell us about your connection to the Ramsey family. Car Says No. He cannot comment on that. How did you you or how did you get into the basement again? Car Says No comment on that reporter and how how do you feel now. How have you? I've been treated car. Says I've been treated okay. Asked how long had you known Jon Benet and again he says. I have no comment on that. Here's some other statements made by car car. Says I was with Jon Benet when she died now. This is not technically a confession but but more of an admission he did not say I killed Jon Benet just I was with Jon Benet when she died another one of cars interesting statements mints and this of course is in regards to Jon Benet. He says it's very important for me that everyone knows that I love her very much that her death was unintentional intentional that it was an accident then the September four two thousand six issue of people magazine claims they have have an exclusive jailhouse interview with John. Mark car turns out. This was not the case. In Fact People magazine interviewed the Thailand authorities authorities. Who told them what car said they say? That car said the Ramseys feel their daughter was brutally murdered and she wasn't. It looks like that but she wasn't. I want them to hear the truth. I need closure and her family needs closure. All of us have gone through enough pain then. The Boulder District Attorney announced that they were dropping the charges against John Maher car and the Jon Benet Ramsey murder. They say it turns out. DNA on the body at the scene did not match that of course DNA. Secondly a great defense is always always a good alibi. It has been reported that the police never interviewed cars family prior to his arrest and extradition to the United States. Most people know where they were during the Christmas season cars family has always said and always maintain their statements. That car was with with them when Jon Benet was killed but car says the DNA might not match. But you can't trust the test. Yeah that's possible and we can into the DNA later not matching but it seems like he's just seeking out attention and that he's a line ship princess. Well he's got a face for camera a face for radio yes he had no. I'm joking I mean he's he's not. He's struggling fogli right. He's less pleasant to look at any is to listen to on July ninth. I want to get into this real quick here. Because it's going to translate a into further discussion. That get into on July ninth two thousand eight. Mary lacy the Boulder District Attorney announce it. Recently he developed touch DNA. Technology had cleared all members of jonbenet. Ramsey's family of her slaying. DNA from an unknown male hale was found on two articles of clothing. Jon benet person many have argued and I believe very rightfully so why this DNA evidence clears the family if it in fact should even clear the family at all being John Patsy and Burke this DNA evidence only proves two things that An unknown male was possibly present at the crime scene. We do not know where the DNA came from and that the DNA does does not belong to the Ramsey family as statement analysis dot Com. Put it this. Evidence does not exonerate the RAMSEYS. It does not prove they you were not present or were not involved or do not know who killed Jon Benet regardless of all of that the DNA found on Jon Benet they did not match cars DNA and the murder charges were in fact dropped he was sent to California to face child pornography charges on stay on this DNA for just a little bit longer because one of the reasons why they believe that this DNA shouldn't be tested against anybody that comes forward or any suspect is that they don't know if it's a mixture of DNA it they go well. It's a single male. That's that's what they believe. It is but even in the test results it says it could be two to three males like a combination not meaning that there's even two or three people involved in her murder just that this. DNA is a combination of could be combination of multiple will people. Therefore you'll never get a match when you're comparing multiple people's DNA to one person right and I mean it's interesting that that we have the DNA A and it was found on two articles of clothing on her that were on her person as she lay there and the wine cellar which is of interest. I don't don't think it should be ignored. I think and I'm going off of expert opinion as well and just really agreeing with them. Where several Oh? Experts have stated that they don't find this type of DNA evidence to be of any value when it comes to eliminating a suspect or or or trying to convict a suspect right that it's simply for now until we can prove otherwise it's simply for now. DNA that we can't identify by the is believed to come from a man doesn't seem to match any of the ramseys but we don't know how it got there or how long it was was there and it's hard for me to believe that was such a vicious attack there would be no. DNA laughed at the scene. At all. But again I think everybody involved in this case or anybody that has researched this case can start off with the idea that the crime scene is heavily contaminated terminated and. I actually don't WanNA fault. I don't WanNA fought law enforcement too much for that because I do believe they went into this situation going. It's it's a kidnapping and yes. They shoulda done his stop everything and go. Let's make sure that this is actually kidnapping and there's no child in this house but but they miss that step and that caused a blunder of other things to go wrong because of the date happened on. I think it's it's reasonable to see why they miss that step. I I somewhat agree with you. I but I disagree in a sense that I don't think that anybody in the public it should feel any less safe on December twenty six than they would any other time of year any other date. I agree it's on the calendar and you're right in a way that because it's been by Boulder Colorado's own detectives and police that state. This couldn't have happened on the worst day. This is the day that it's tough for us to get a full staff to get the most people working it's just it's a bad day scheduling wise no right. It's a great day to commit a murder by but what I mean by that is that maybe these officers would miss a step one because it's right after holiday but but to because they just spent time with their friends and family and so when you hear a we have a kidnapping it like. I said it could just be as simple as war. We're going to believe the parents right away when maybe they want. If it was three weeks later yeah I also I think that my wishes truly are the Boulder Police Department that they would have treated as a kidnapping as soon as they were notified of kidnapping and and that does not appear to have taken place to me right. Let's talk about Linda Hoffman. Pugh she worked for the Ramsey. She was their housekeeper. This is one thing that separates her from many of the other people that we've already discussed. She had a key to the home. She had a key to the Ramsey's house her. Her husband Mervyn worked with Linda and for the Ramseys on a few occasions on the evening of twelve twenty seven nineteen ninety-six. This is is the day after all of the the mess that we just kind of touched. Upon at the Ramsey home in the investigation police showed up at the pews home home and they wanted her to write the number one hundred eighteen thousand dollars on a piece of paper and reportedly took her fingerprints in several strands of her hair at that time as well. Linda confirmed the polices suspicions of job. Possibly having a bed wedding problem problem. There are several publications. That say Linda Accuses Patsy Ramsey of killing Jon Benet and it appears that she he did. I believe this may just have been in retaliation especially after learning that the ramseys put Linda and her husband on a list of people they would consider to be suspects and then some extended family pointed to them as well. The extended Ramsey family member told police Linda. Linda had asked Patsy for alone many publications out there stated that the ramseys refused to help her out and Linda's family. I was struggling and desperately needed the money. This sounds very ominous and certainly presents a cloud of suspicion. But let's clear a bunch of things up here. Linda did in fact ask Patsy for loan. The loan amount was for two thousand dollars and Patsy and John they. They agreed to help her out. They gave her the money and the agreement was that they would take two hundred dollars out of each of her paychecks until the loan was was paid back. Now that makes sense also. It wasn't like Linda was super desperate for money. Yes her and her husband struggled at times but she had a good job working for the ramseys and Mervyn was even able to pick up some work because of her job as well. The loan was for car repairs and dental work. Mark these both being emergency situations that can be expensive that spring up without notice. We have all experienced this right. Let's keep in mine too even more so than the ramseys. The police were considering everyone with a key to the home to be a suspect at that time in the investigation to see some of the report set speculate that there was as many as twenty keys. Not Not accounted for. I've seen multiple numbers reported over the years. One thing that is pointed out by the detectives that were working. The case was the first started off investigating the murder order soon as they knew it was a murder they wanted to know who had keys and how many were out there. And that number that was provided to them by the RAMSEYS was much much different than what their investigation would lead them to to find. Now Linda was someone who had a key to the home as we stated and regardless of what some of these publications say that are out there Linda when I questioned by police never suggested that Patsy or John were are guilty of anything other than loving their children she even stated that she worried about the beautiful little girl. Meaning Jon Benet who was allowed to ride her a bike unsupervised and said someone must have seen her and attempted to take the little girl this statement obviously pointing toward an unknown intruder rather than the Ramseys Mervyn however told police that the few times he was in the home he found the home to be very difficult to navigate. Saying if you just turned around you'd get lost this statement pointing toward an insider if it wasn't intruder. Of course Hoffman. PUGH does not even fit the profile. The police were working with which was white male former convict twenty five to thirty years. Old Hoffman Pugh was fifty seven at the time I'm and her husband was about the same age years later. She did testify in front of a grand jury for a total of eight hours including a statement against Patsy Azzi that read quote. I think she had multiple personalities should be in a good mood and then should be cranky. She got into arguments with Jon. Benet the Linda Hoffman. PUGH theory as it goes says the housekeeper led a trusting job down into the basement that night and attempt to who trick her employers into leaving money for her ransom. It is possible that she could have seen John. Ramsey's pay stub for one hundred. Eighteen thousand thousand dollars as a bonus familiar with both the home and the family. Schedule Hoffman. Pugh makes a convenient suspect and without a solid alibi. She says she was asleep in bed while her husband allegedly slept on the couch. She has however never been formally accused of this crime. I'm in there's really no evidence pointing to her just speculation by mainly a lot of coming from patsies mother and we've spent the last asked episode and portion of this episode discussing some of the people we believe should be in the conversation of suspects. There there nobody in there that we are specifically Lee. Sang should be a suspect. Just when you WANNA look at people that you might want to look into with the investigation these would be people that the captain and I would take a look at. There are a few people that we haven't discussed yet. And that would be some true insiders. In this case. The three Ramsey family members numbers that were inside the home. Obviously we cannot discuss every person that's ever been thought to be a suspect by whomever out there down. I mean we we thought about after the second episode discon- screw it was two hundred episodes on this case but then we decided against that. Well just the suspects alone would be extremely exhausting one to report in to to listen to as well because the Ramseys John and patsy supply boulder police with a list of suspects. The list they gave to police now. It grew as the investigation went on right but the latest report that I heard was that that number was at one hundred and sixty eight the ramseys gave the police department one hundred and sixty eight people to look at and obviously their names were not included on this list. So right but if your child was murdered and you weren't involved at some point you would start naming everybody you knew just to have them look at anybody. Because they're not at at this point you don't know who they've looked at what leads the have Where they're going? How close they are so? At some point year you start becoming desperate `esprit I get that and that's that just like everything else in this case is where you can take one bit of information and you could use it to argue four. Aw or against the RAMSEYS. Yeah so where every one of us would expect innocent people to supply a very lengthy list in a desperation to find justice for their daughter. The flip side of that is the suspicion of going. Well they they have something to hide. So they're providing police with this very extensive list giving them all these errands chores to do to really steer the direction direction of the investigation away from themselves to further compound that a bit. We do have statements by Patsy Ramsey who who says at some point in the investigation. She was suspicious of Saying that she believed the killer could have been Colorado University student. Well that adds several thousands more people to the list of suspects so it's really one of those tricky things. The other thing that I found interesting about this and this this is actually a real. I think this is a very possibly legit answer. We do know that the ramseys did provide a suspect list. That's not in question question. That absolutely happened. What I believe is in question is the number of people that the ramseys put on that list brave because that number has been reported all all over the shop? It's a pretty high number. I'll say that but I found this statement to be. It's really a response that John Ramsey had uh it either shows his level of intelligence or his level of innocence or possibly his level of. He thinks he might be set up being wrongfully accused of something and it was this. One of his friends contacted him. Their conversation was Ramsey Ramsey. Wanted to know. Why did you say you said some things about me? That I didn't really like right. And his his friend or acquaintance Dayton's I don't know that the strength of their relationship and the statements themselves they they weren't even really a big deal in my opinion but the friend says to John. Well I only said that stuff because or I only said that you should be a suspect because police came to me and told me that you told them that I should be suspect. Right and John Ramsey's response to that was look. I didn't say you should be a suspect. They're just telling you and telling everybody nobody else out there in our our circle of friends and Co workers that we have said everybody else's a suspect they're trying trying to stir. The Pot is what John Ramsey's basically saying they're trying to stir the pot so that you will give them stuff about us you will give them dirt on us so it's it's really one of those really difficult things to kind of sift through. Who is right? Who is wrong and what this particular thing could mean? I in the beginning of this investigation thought that that number one hundred sixty eight people named as suspects by the Ramsey was a crazy number and it pointed to something that they might be trying to hide right as I go through it. I questioned that action less. And less and less one thing we do need to talk about two which added suspicion in the public's eye to the RAMSEYS and I believe at it suspicion in the eyes of law enforcement As well working the case is what has always been referred to as the RAMSEYS hiding behind a wall of lawyers and some people well even gone as far to call this wall of Lawyers Team Ramsey. The one of the attorneys hired by the RAMSEYS was was. This is from an old case. And it's from a representation to a person named Lee Lindsay. Her husband was shot to death inside their home l. e. Lindsey was found innocent. John Hired that same defense attorney to represent him. It's an interesting strategy again. It's just another one of those things that you could argue. Either side this points to him having something to hide this points to him just wanting good representation tation so he doesn't get wrongfully accused. John and Patsy had different attorneys and Burke had his own attorney as well now how we should point out there all paid for by John Ramsey. But they're all receiving separate representation. Some people point to that as being very strange something very weird I really to me captain my opinion on that I could go either way on it I I I would. I would really want somebody with a strong opinion on it to to offer up their opinion to me as to why I should feel one way or the other about it. I don't really think thirty points to anything. I think again initially appointed to me that well. If let's pretend I'm the husband and and there's it made me Patsy when you're not involved in this okay. If I'm the husband in a situation where my my child has been killed in. The police are now looking looking at me and my wife as potential suspects. which you know? They're going to what if I'm in a situation where I know I'm innocent assent but I don't fully know if my spouse is innocent right well then it would make very much sense if I hired an attorney for me and if if I had if I were a man of money I would probably hire one for her as well but we would be represented by two different people because my interest I in her interest in this investigation are not the same and therefore we need different representation. That'd be awesome if your man of money because we could turn on the heat and and the garage now the flip side of that is what. If I know that I'm innocent and I know my wife to be innocent as well. I know that a very very common police tactic and detective tactic would be for them to separate us in question us at the same time in separate areas in separate locations locations thus making it impossible for the attorney representing both of us to physically represent both of us during that situation. Elation right you see how this pendulum swings back and forth. It's it's aggravating. It's interesting it's truly a fascinating case case but with a lot with a lot of unanswered questions right but I view it from the standpoint of what John Ramsey says the the day of the crime he talks to police officers the day of the crime they have burke talk to investigator without anybody present they also send burke to their friends house where he could say God knows what if if he was responsible for this or if he knew what happened but John Ramsey says is that they're willing to cooperate they had some suspicion from their friends. Saying you probably get a lawyer to help you through all this but when when the police would not give back her body so they can have the burial. That's when John said that was the long drawn in the sand and you don't WanNa to give our dead child back so we can bury her and so you have a sit down sit down conversation with both him and Patsy and I think at that point he realized This was kind of war and I think he was. I don't even think it was whether it was right or wrong long. I think it was just like I think he felt that it was very disrespectful. And from then on I'm not gonNA play by your rules. The holiday shopping season here and this year. Your gift can inspire fire. Next year's good habits with quip quip is something that sure to put a smile on. Everyone's face because it's dental care. People actually want to use every day. Eh Quips. Electric toothbrush refillable floss in. toothpastes are all intentionally designed to make good habits simple. The electric toothbrush has sensitive. Sonic vibrations in the timer with thirty second pulses to guide. Your routine and equip floss dispenser has pre marked strings to always use the right amount. Plus quip delivers brush. Heads floss and toothpaste refills every three months. So your new good habits can last all year. That's why quip is a perfect gift. Join over three million happy customers and check everyone off your gift list right now with quip. I love my quick brush. Josh Equality Toothbrush. I love the timer because I get a great clean a deep clean and that even clean which my dentist said even clean is very important and so not only am I happy but my dentist is happy as well. Just go to get quip dot com slash garage is save on gift sets and to get your first refill free with a refill plan that. You're I refill. FREE APP GET QUIP DOT com slash garage that's Q.. Ip Dot com slash garage get quip quipped dot com slash garage when it comes to me quality matters but there's more to it than texture and taste every month butcher box ship. Secure rated selection of high-quality meets right to your home. I'll meets a free of antibiotics and added hormones packed fresh ship frozen and vacuum field. So they stay that way with options like one hundred percent grass fed and finished beef free range organic chicken heritage pork. Wild Cod brought Alaskan salmon and sugar nightshirt Free Bacon available for just six dollars a meal butcher boxes. The most affordable and convenient way to get healthy humanely raised me. They even have free shipping within the continental us. I love butcher box. It is my thing. I've jokingly said it's my hobby you can take my home. Take my car. Do Not Take my butcher box subscription away from me I cooked last week Captain Bacon Pork chops rib eye steaks. They got the best rabbi steaks I've ever had. I think they have the Best Bacon I've ever had. I liked to do a little steak with a piece of salmon as well a little surf and turf crispy Colonel Style right now. You get two pounds of ground beef and two packs of Bacon absolutely free plus twenty dollars off your first box. Just go to butcher box dot com slash garage and use Promo Code Garage at checkout. That's butcher box dot com slash garage. Use Promo Code Garage at checkout. Tis the season to get cozy. Or maybe you're hosting holiday hangs either way your furniture should suit your needs while filling uniquely you. That's Oh that's where joy bird comes in. I have two chairs from joy bird at my home and they are in my TV room. It's my favorite room to relax. And because of my joy burch chairs chairs not only. Are they super comfortable. They look fantastic. And they're super durable. The shipping was easy the ordering was easy and the thing. I love the most unlike other furniture purchases. I've made when these chairs arrived I had nothing to do. No assembly required ready to go looking looking great right Alabama six with over fifty fabric and leather options three shades of wood and over two hundred and fifty unique soula wets do the math joy. Birds got a lot to choose from. The days of settling are over with their hundreds of customizable pieces. If you can dream it joy bird can build it. They even offer a range of kid kid and pet friendly upholstery options. Joy Birds Free personal design. Consultants can help you go from inspiration to creation. It's piece is made made with the ultimate care and precision. All Joy. Bird handcrafted pieces come with a limited lifetime warranty check out their website. You're going to be very glad that you did create furniture that matches your own fearless style at joy bird dot com slash garage. See how joy bird can help. Make your dream space a reality today at joy dot com slash garage could enjoy bird dot com slash garage and receive exclusive offer for twenty five percent off your first order by using Promo Komo Code Garage. All right cheers cheers captain this week. We are sipping on a little Christmas Ale by the good people at Great Lakes Brewing Company Garage Grade Five bottlecaps pick up some Christmas Ale for yourself for your family for this year's festivities are captain. We're kind of the point now where we're really only left with about three people left to discuss And these would be the complete total insiders and this whole entire case. The three Ramsey family only members that were inside the home the night that Jon Benet was killed. We mentioned yesterday the experts or several people that stated that they believe I believe in an intruder theory is the best theory for this case regarding the insider theory we have. CBS Robert Ressler. Great MMA query. Dr Cyril Wecht and Steve Thomas to retired F. B. I.. Agents that is the flip side of the coin of John. Douglas Bliss I guess and we have Cyril Wecht who is an expert in forensics as well as Steve Thomas who would be the flip side of the coin. Four four Lou Smit loose-knit was brought in to work this investigation for the prosecutors for the team of prosecutors Steve Steve. Thomas was a member of the Boulder Police Department and was a detective at the time. And he was one of the lead investigators on the Ramsey investigation. Gatien the strange thing being here is that these two investigators worked on the same team at the same time of the same investigation and had had to completely different opinions on what happened. What took place who is responsible for the murder and both of them believe? I believe so strongly in their theory that the evidence that day could see backed up what they suspected so much so that both of them eventually actually resigned from working the case at all. And that's pretty strong commitment to your theory. Yeah one hundred percent. We have stated that some people were eliminated whatever words you want to use in regards to very things that are very specific like handwriting possibly DNA EH alibis alibis. The only true people that in my that I'm willing to go along with an agree with that have been officially cleared in this case were cleared very early on in the investigation and they're only four of them and that would would be John Andrew and Melinda Ramsey John's two older children right as well as fleet and Priscilla White. Those four have been officially cleared and I agree with all four of those statements. This being basically that it was proven to be physically impossible for any of these four people to be involved because they have an ironclad alibi. The two older children were not even in the state of of Colorado. They would need to either own a private jet or a time machine to teleport. Yeah have possibly been able to commit this crime and it appears the same way with fleet and Priscilla white as well based off of they had a bunch of guest at their home overnight and there's multiple people stating that until the wee hours of the morning. They're both accounted for. It's not like one of these statements. Like oh we went to bed at eight o'clock at night and get up and do anything till the next morning they were up up hanging out with these people and until until the wee hours of the more they were pulling what I call it. crispy colonel so this leaves us with three of the more popular suspects in this case and you know I remember when I was a child in this case was in the news that there were people screaming screaming at the top of their lungs. The parents did at the parents did it. And then years later a popular theory came out that pay the brother. Did it either way for somebody in the home to have killed. Jon Benet without question there has to be a cover up and then you have to go to the extent of how many people people do you believe. Were to be involved in that cover up and why the need for the cover up in the first place. John Ramsey was a popular suspect early. Early on in this would be based off of the salacious photos. That came out of this young six year old blonde in these beauty pageants wearing clothing and outfits that people didn't think were appropriate and you carry that out a little further people wondered well. Could she have been sexually abused. was there abuse going on in inside the home and could John Ramsey be guilty of such abuse. The other thought here is we have have patsy Ramsey. The patsy Ramsey theory to me is is. I think I was GONNA say interesting but I don't don't think that's the right word I think it's complicated is is the better word and I say that because in regards to patsy having killed Jon Benet and and then covered it up it seems like there could be many motivating factors for patsy right. Where would John? It seems pretty cut cut and dried that. It's just I. The he must have been abusing her sexually and it led to this and then it was covered up now. One seems like we have evidence accordance at points against the idea that she was abused long-term and the the where the place. Where this theory then splits is you could go? Okay okay. Well did. Patsy helped him cover covered up or was she aware of other things going on or not right with the patsy theory. It's it's it's a number of things it could be that Jon Benet the bed and there was an attack and impulsive attack. That took place and then it was covered up later or she was in some weird way jealous that her daughter is being molested by her husband and and flew into some kind of rage. or It's possible that she was molesting her daughter herself she was molesting the daughter. One interesting theory too is is that John's molesting the daughter in in some type of was meant to be a heroic act to come in and attack this man attack her husband. Who's violating her daughter? The in some freak accident. She accidentally struck Jon Benet in the head instead instead and then they worked together to cover it up. The theories are as bizarre as you can imagine and then there's others that make some sense now mind you you need the evidence to back them up yes and this is where my even get more complex but I I believe based on the autopsy that it shows that Jon Benet was not being molested for years so so to me that rules out patsy molesting Jon Benet or John Molesting Jon Benet I also would find it very strange Ought to have a situation where we have molest station of a child of your own child and a house that there is no pornography goofy at all found or any claims at all by any friends they had a lot of close friends. No claims whatsoever a about child abuse so to me I you can take that off the table. I certainly don't lean that way that that was the situation that that was what was going on long term and backed that up by saying look this at this. John was not a first time father. Okay he other children that have nothing but good things to say about him. Usually with an offender that would would re-offend on the same victim over and over again. It's not uncommon that they just victimized one child right but it's more common did they victimize more than one of the children so I don't lean that way and it also appears that out of the. This was a young girl it was very well cared for in the sense that she had twenty seven. Doctors visits in the course of three years. Now some people call that into suspicion. I'm fine with that. It's it's suspicious to me too but what's not suspicious is a lot of times when there is some form of physical abuse or sexual abuse. You're not running to the doctor for every little thing that comes up because sometimes the doctor can detect these things or can question marks on a child this things with with Jon Benet and in her body and and the examines the examinations of her body and these doctor visits i. I don't think that we can one hundred percent rule out the possibility of some type of sexual abuse. It just doesn't seem like like anybody people that have first hand knowledge of all these situations and of Jon Benet. It doesn't seem that anybody leans that direction right. The these are things that could be explained away by sexual abuse but also could be explained away. A million other ways in have been irritations due to two wedding the bed. wetting yourself irritations to bubble bath any number of different things going on here. So yeah. I'm with you captain. Can I don't see a situation where we have long term sexual abuse. Now that doesn't mean that sexual abuse cannot be the motivating factor for what happened here. It very well could be that. This was the very first time that this ever took place and it went. It ended in murder right. I think if you I believe that then you have to believe the evidence of the autopsy and that means that there would have been something that happened on the twenty third so again like you said it's new developing Sexual molestation but by apparent I just I just don't see you there. I think there's such a lack of evidence of that I think makes maybe a little more sense with the idea of that. This bed-wetting became an issue. And the person that's dealing with it constantly is patsy and so something happened there but again it. It's strange to me. It's just it's this is so complicated because you have to start picking what happened. I and I don't believe a hit or the fracture of the skull all happened. I so if that did happen I and somebody could prove to me that happened. I then I'd go. Well Yeah Patsy got a a little upset in and pushed her. She hit her head or she accidentally hit hit. Jon Benet on top of the head was something and then use this this gratin to cover it up but I just don't see that to be the case in regards can you. Can you clear up what you mean gene by something occurring on the twenty third while because the 'cause they examined her claims that the day that she was murdered murdered. There's evidence that there's digital molest station and that but there's also evidence that it would happen. And and when we use the word chronic he was stating that it probably happened on the twenty second or the twenty third so there was evidence of some kind of molestation on the day she was murdered and then on the twenty second and the twenty third so meaning if it was somebody somebody on the inside it could have been the second time that such an act took place. Yeah I'm just. I'm taking that off the table because to me it doesn't there's no no evidence that points and I just. There's no evidence that points that John Ramsey was doing that. There's no evidence that points that Patsy Patsy Ramsey was doing that. No I agree with you too. I'm not willing to take it off the table because it sounds like the medical examiner says that something took place place right and look. She's in the company of her family more than anybody else. She's a six year old child so I won't take off off the table when they're still they're still reason to leave it on the table. I think the the difficulty with this case as you are the road you were starting to go down. There is one. It's IT'S A. It's a general misconception. In this case that the belief that she was struck on the head and then strangled with this Gujarat and the whole strangulation of the garage was an the act to cover up an accidental hit to the head of strike to the head. Which of course does anybody could make a case for that to have been patsy Azzi Burke? John What have you the problem being is it seems that all the experts seem to agree. Then the strangulation came first in the strike on the head occurred either at the same time or shortly after so what that says to me. Is that the use of this Iraq of this strangulation of whatever was happening before Jon Albany was struck on the head. You it can't be a cover up in the sense that the garage was not used as a cover. The strangulation was not used as a cover. Ever up this occurred before the strike on the head right and there's multiple things to point us to this one. She has defensive offensive wounds. meaning that Jon Benet when she was being strangled with this garage she tried to pull off her neck and there's indents dance all over her neck fingernail and dents to show that she was conscious when she's being choked and she tried to stop it if she was hit on the head that blow to the head that caused that massive fracture would a- left her probably brain dead. She would had severe brain swelling. She would had severe brain bleed so she wouldn't be able to be conscious to stop this attack now. Is it possible that she was strangled for awhile. Hit hit on the head and then strangled again. That's very possible but this idea that choose hit on the head I is just it makes zero sense and I always believed the CBS reports. When I watched the first? CBS documentary. I went there. You go that that seems like it makes a Lotta sense and you have these paid and Vesa gators and these forensic experts sit in on this board Goin'. Yeah this probably what happened or something to that. This effect act. You have to believe again. The idea that Jon benet comes up and take some pineapple away from her brother and then he turns around and hits her on the head with some kind of object. Maybe the flashlight that's what they said in the CBS report. I think you said you don't think nine year old would be strong enough to do that. Blow I lean towards your expertise on that. But it's also you can't see the fracture. You can see the fracture after the autopsy debts. Because to put it bluntly they removed the skin right. You can't there will be no Lhasa ration- There was no open. Head wound right. And she's not bleeding leading all over the place. The Medical Examiner the pathologist Dr Meyers. He was unaware of the blow to the head until till. Oh well into the examination of the body right going off of site scene of what he sees at the at the crime scene and what he sees on the the body of the victim. He's immediately going all. This was strangulation. Pretty obvious the rope still around her neck. Sorry right but it wasn't wasn't until further examination. Did he discover this strike to the head. And I'm look there have been experts out there again and I'm no expert but your expert in the garage. There have been experts out there that said yes. Nine year old could do could carry out this type of violent strike to the head of a small child and caused this amount of damage. I'm sorry man I've seen the the the pictures and unfortunately had to stare at them long enough. I refused to believe that I simply it look look at the regular. Let's go down this road for a second breads less to say he was able to do that. Pullout and less to say that you can say patsy saul him hit her or didn't see Burke hitter at some point. She comes a pawn her lifeless body. But guess what she still breathing. She is still breathing. So so maybe some time passes but you're going to tell me this mother that loves her daughter is just going to call the ambulance because guess what we have evidence of what happens. When Burke hits his sister in the in the face with a golf club he gets in trouble double they take her to the emergency room? You think she comes upon her lifeless child's body. Guess what the child is breathing breathing. So you you want to tell me that she's not GonNa just call nine one one and say hey we we need help. We need ambulance. It's because she would have no clue. He is not a medical examiner. She's not a doctor she's not a nurse. She has no clue. I would assume that most people most adults came across a six-year-old that was unconscious and there was no. Oh evidence of her wear shoes hit that they wanted to call nine one one to try to save their daughter's life so so people want you to think that she just automatically assume that she was dead decided to make garage and start a choking her violently. Not like haphazardly violently and chokers so much that that rope moves places but then somehow during all this John neagh comes to and then defends the choking gene and wants. Her child comes to she goes all. Well it's too late for you or just covering this up for Burke we gotTa Save Burke and then she keen continues to choke and then we've got a stage some molestation but again the evidence points that not only did it happened that day but it probably happened a couple of days before so did you stage that too and then we gotta start staging all these other things now. We got it right this ransom note. It just doesn't make a lot of sense. were an regardless if it makes sense or not. The science doesn't back any of that up with the science backs up is that she was strangled and then struck in the head in that exact order brain and what what backs that up is. The the what the science shows is a slowing of the blood moving to the brain at that time right. That's one piece of evidence. meaning that she was either in the act of dying when she was struck on the head or ver- you know she's in the act of dying very close to death right. Something is causing blood to be slowed or stop going to the brain and then she struck in the head. What stopped that was the strangulation that was going on with the garage them at the time that she was struck on the head? So you're not using the garage to cover up being struck in the head. You're not using sexual. Oh abuse to cover up the strike to the head. What you have here is a situation where unfortunately we have sexual assault and a very vicious sexual act of cutting off the air to the two two six year olds was six year old and then during the commission of doing all that there is a strike to the head whether the offenders struck her on the head because he believed she was dead and wanted to make sure her or wanted to strike on the head to cover up and confuse what was going on at the scene? We can't say we can't say that but we can say based off of the science. Is that the act of strangulation was taking place before the strike to the head occurred so just to try to work somebody off of our list. If you're going to believe that burke possibly did this then you have to reconcile the fact that she was being choked before for being struck on the head you have to take a step further and say well he was. He built this fancy garage and he was choking her and then he's Snyder and look it makes for a good story but I don't see the evidence to suggest that that's what in fact occurred what I do see. Evidence of is a the the the problem with the people in the house is we have John who could be guilty. We have patsy. Who could be guilty and then we could have all three that were somehow in on it together? One thing that I believe you can absolutely cross off your list and take off the table is that burke did all of this by himself right. Take that one off off. Because he's nine years old. He didn't write that letter. He didn't write that ransom letter. He didn't construct that Gherat. I don't know why a nine year old would be into the type of sexual assault that I believe to be taking place in that basement or how they would even know about that at. Aw and then you would have to convince me that. He strong enough to inflict that severe severe blow to the head and Hill says. Write the note via himself right so and yeah and he has to tie the sophisticated knots. I don't see see that being a possibility and again maybe a heavy enough object. Maybe you can create the fracture. I'd be more interested to see if a nine year old could inflict the damage around the neck with a great. Because you'd have to be pulling pretty pretty hard so I just don't see it. Here's my thing though is I've been thinking about this a lot. Why did I watch the CBS report? And and why did I believe that. And some of it is because they commit certain pieces of evidence which come on shame on you right. You have some Agenda you have some point trying to make so you just leave out all the pieces of evidence so therefore your point makes the most sense but I started thinking what will why does you know looking cannot the evidence that we've done for the last few months. Why did America why it seems? Like almost all of America's fold by this but I think it's because it's easier. It's easier to think that this was an accident it's easier to think think six-year-olds accidentally hit on the head by her brother. The parents did not know what to do. They were scared that grant lose their son and and then they did these horrible things but on some level on a very small percentage we all can just justify their actions. It's because they didn't want to lose their son because maybe there was something wrong with their son. We've only seen one interview you with them. Which is very odd interview as he has grown up? I think that those are nervous reactions when he talks to Dr Phil Bill. But I think when you see him as a child. There's some strangeness in those interviews to but look it's a nine year old kid did being interrogated or being questioned after. His little sister was murdered. But I think it's easier to come to that conclusion. It's easier to think that then to think somebody took the time to make a device to put around a six year olds neck and to pull it so tight that her brain was losing blood and oxygen and was either molesting her or molesting themselves why they choke the life founded this little girl and they either got so excited how they decide to smash her on the head splitting splitting her skull pretty much in half or guy of theorized that maybe after she was dead debt debt when they were trying to carry her out on some level they ended up dropping her and then they panicked and they left. But I think it's you see what I'm saying where I feel. It's almost it's harder to imagine the latter it's also very difficult cult. Imagine that the parents did this. It's almost easier then in a sense to that an intruder should be guilty of such a terrible act in such a terrible attack on a child. Yeah this is a very unpopular opinion. But I I lean toward the intruder theory as one that I feel to be more likely. I'm not willing to roll other possibilities. Ladies out why again with the with the damage done the physical damage done to the victim. What I see here ear is something that is beyond probably the capabilities of the ramseys? And I know that it. It happens all the time in America and other countries as well Brian where apparent does something horrible unspeakable acts next to their own child. I understand it I get it but at the end of the day when I can't make what I believe to be an educated aided decision because the evidence is so messy then I have to go with my gut and what my gut tells me. Is that from. The pictures is that I've seen of the damage done. I feel like this this had to be an intruder and I will take a step further by stating the garage itself the construction of the garage. The construction of those knots that too who appears to me to point toward a certain level of sophistication meaning somebody that has fashioned one of these devices before right and if the ramseys are simply trying to cover something up. They've had they've never had a reason to construct one before. Well all the items it made. The garage made the ransom letter. All everything came from inside the House Nick. Well that's not. In fact entirely true there were items inside the home that cannot be ruled out as having caused the damage that was made by the blow to the head right but we don't have any proof that there was an item edem inside the home that did in fact make that wound the blonde plus made dense strike to the head right. Plus you got a scene. That's very contaminated plus on top of that. Just look at the pictures we're talking about to me extremely messy house which I would think would make investigating crime scene way harder. So how does this all workout. If in fact it was an intruder in my mind this is how it plays out again again. I'm not willing to say this is one hundred percent. I'm not willing to now say that there are other possibilities. This is at the end of the day. I put fifty one percent of my eggs in this basket. If this is how the intruder theory goes down. This is how it works and makes sense for me that she was targeted. Somebody broke into the home with the intention of abducting this child. For the purpose of sexual assault. They may have broke into the home before or after the family came home. I don't know it seems to point to me. More likely that they may have entered the home while the Ramseys were gone. I during this time they brought with them a letter. The day copied using stuff that they found in the home using the felt pen. We know that occurred using patsies. No Pat we know. Oh that occurred in writing it why they have clubs on so we don't leave any DNA or fingerprints. The difficulty with the letter itself is we have barked in right it. According to the analyst John Reid it and then they put patsy at the low end of the spectrum for possibly riding it. I know I'm reminding myself that we said earlier. It would be responsible to eliminate any based off of handwriting analysis. The thing here though captain is what would be the purpose of ransom letter. I also stated and I believe you back me up on this that the letter itself is a farce. What I meant by that is that there was no? There was never any belief by the author of that letter or desire to actually collect any money from the family right. The letter itself was simply a giant speed speed-bump to persuade the family not to contact the police and give this sick individual more time with the victim victim. Nick that never happens why would why would they add the added risk of of putting themselves out there like that just to buy some more time. Well I can point to one situation where in fact did happen. Amy Mahalick was abducted from the Shopping Plaza Waza and allowed to call her mother at work after being in the presence of the abductor simply glee for the reason of delaying the mother being aware that there was something wrong and guess what if the ramseys would have followed. The instructions is on that ransom letter. They wouldn't have contacted the police but they did. One thing that I find weird about the note and we never discussed discuss this The other day here captain but one thing that I found extremely strange with inside the no itself was how the author author speaks and absolutes all the way up to one point and then leaves the window open for a little bit of possibility a little bit of opportunity to foil the abductors plan where the author says. If you do this she dies if you do this she dies. If if you don't cooperate with us you run the risk of her being beheaded and then we will deny you her body all these absolutes. She dies beheaded denied. The the body right but then later is states. If you try to outsmart us you stand a ninety nine percent chance of killing killing your daughter if you follow our instructions you stand one hundred percent chance of getting your daughter back again in absolute but then that ninety nine percent i. That's what's been keeping me up at night. Why would the author leave that? One percentage chance the the ramseys could foil the plan and I think that's because the author really wanted them to believe that the author was in control and if they follow their instructions not only would they get their daughter back but at the very least if they didn't contact the police they were still one percent percent chance that the ramseys could outsmart the attacker. I think what occurred really man was. The note was constructed to buy more time. I'm who knows how long this individual intended to keep riber right but he believed the note was authentic in a sense that the author wanted wanted the Ramseys to believe it but it happened before he actually yes because if he killed Jon Benet he would've never wrote the note to begin with bright. The note gets a ransom note gets the FBI involved. Which I think is another thing which not? Everybody knows that. But it's like if the family was trying to cover up a murder and you then put a ransom note into play now you have FBI involved. And I wish that be. I was involved from beginning because if they would have been. I think this case would be solved by now. Yeah if they wouldn't have located her body in the basement that quickly if that would have gone twenty four hours the FBI would have taken over this case in this investigation regardless of finding her body later. The interesting thing here though captain I think where this whole thing gets messy. It's a complicated case because there are all these things that you have have to explain and you have to explain them and they're not easily explained away because there are things that point to the letter being constructed not only in the home. I'm but Bai's maybe somebody that lived there. Nothing is easily explained away because the crime didn't go and it wasn't carried out in the manner that it was intended to had he been able to remove her from the home right alive. That's that's how my theory goes. This would've looked taken on a whole different appearance. It would have taken on a whole different investigation. Something happened where he realized or determined in the moment that he couldn't get her out of the house. I don't know what that is but whatever it is. I'm backing up. The motivating factor for this abduction. Which I believe is? What was the intention here with sexual assault was because is this individual had already taken the risk to get what they wanted and when they could not get her out of the house? They assaulted her inside. The home home struck her over the head to make sure that she was dead and then left or possibly got spooked. And I but I believe that this this person knew the house. Well they knew that by if you can get her down to the basement. You're now putting two floors between you and her and her parents now. Do you think this case is solvable. I was actually listening to somebody on the way here to the garage. That was an expert in my opinion. Very good expert. That was saying they believe. The case is still has the potential to be solved oft based off of forensic evidence personally. I don't feel very good about this case. Ever being solved in the problem with that is is. That's without that's with the exception of having a somebody come forward saying I did this. This is how I did it. And then they can pull some evidence together and go. Yeah we can back up this individual story. Because of this this and this right where I think this case lends itself to be unsolvable unsolvable at say is in a court of law if you make an arrest and somebody isn't willing to confess to the murder order. I think it's going to be very difficult to convict. Based off of public opinion. You could move this case you know some cases they do a change of venue because the either the perpetrator doesn't stand a chance or there's problems with the case. Whatever right you can move this case to Mars and it's still will a mess? It's still convoluted mess. There are people out there that feel so strongly about their opinion. And that's why that's why part of me only willing to go. Oh fifty one percent in on this intruder theory on my thoughts on the case because I understand why so. Many people are are firm firm in their beliefs and in their opinions of this case. Because just like you pointed out earlier you watch. CBS and you go. Yup I think they nailed it now. I know what to believe right. You Watch the e thing same thing but it's a different answer. It's a different response. You read Steve Thomas's book. You absolutely believe Patsy did it. You know it's really comes from whoever you get your information from An. I actually don't believe that anybody is out there. You're trying to skew this in any way that's malicious or this trying to deceive the audience right. I think that there there is is evidence that you could argue either way and if you choose to argue it all one way it makes a good case for whatever your opinion or your theory is on the case one Henry Lee said that he didn't he say that he believes that this is not just a DNA solvable case. Well I believe what his statement was that he believes that the DNA is of no value to eliminate somebody as a suspect or to convict them in a court of law. Aw One so one. I think they need to try to come to some kind of understanding in some conclusion with the DNA to figure out is it. A single male is or`mixture. I know that they were talking about doing tests back in two two thousand sixteen in two thousand seventeen I have not I could not find any new results of those. Because if we do no because what they could do as a contest that make sure with female DNA and then if they have any trace of female DNA that POPs in than there would and more likely it's a mixture and now we gotta go back to the drawing boards. But I think they need to figure that out for one but all all accounts announce state that it's male DNA. It was taken from a Right but it's not clear if it's two or three or just one. Yes that I don't know I do know that it was taken from a A Do blood sample. If you WANNA call it I don't know that's the best way to describe it but what that tells me is that they're taking this fluid and they're finding DNA in the fluid and if they're saying that it's coming from a Dole all sample than they've already been able to identify what that other where that other samples coming from right meaning. It came the most. It's obvious answer is the other. DNA comes from. Jon Benet bright and so if they're able to make that conclusion then I don't think they can rule rule out one hundred percent that it's not You know more than one. DNA but it sounds to me what they are able to conclude as what they're looking at. Ah they believe one hundred percent to be male unknown male or unidentified male DNA. I think what Lee what Henry Henry Lee and several other experts are trying to point out regarding this. DNA itself. Is that the type of DNA. It is is not. It's not indicative of anything that that may have occurred during the commission of any of these crimes regardless of Of what crimes you believe took place place this. DNA does not have to be there because of a sexual assault this DNA does not have to be there because of a murder. What they're saying is the problem with the DNA Alta mentally? Right now is that they don't know where it came from and they don't know how long it was there right. Meaning there's a chance it worked. Its way there after the fact after she was already killed after the perpetrator fled or after John and patsy started recovering up the crime by that. There's a chance that that DNA has nothing to do with the murder of this child and that is the problem and until they can figure out you might be able to clear that up if you can figure out where it came from if there would be a way for you to prove it's impossible for to end up on the body the after the fact that only ended up on her during the commission of these crimes right. But if I'm talking with John Ramsey and and John says to me a I wanNA hire you for this case. I'd say John The first thing we need to do is look at this. DNA and we need to come to some consensus with multiple experts. I'd also WanNa pull in some investigators that that believed that it was the family. I'd WanNa pull them in and to have them help with the investigation because they would be our checks and balances also think they need to figure out the stun gun theory. I don't know if they can still do it but I know at the time they were would have been able to Dig Her up and do some tests to figure out if these were trained tracks marks or possibly a stun gun or neither or right right and I think that's important. I also think this digital ma molestation. That's what I'm going to call it. That possibly happened on the twenty second or twenty third or the and then than happen the day of the murder. Now I say the day of the murder because that I believe was in the report ambler throughout this theory and I think there are some investigation. That should be done. This is not this is finger molest station. They believe finger was insider. Now you can. You can explain it away in multiple different with the wiping aggressive wiping and and different things but most people believe this is some form molestation. LS Station. I would also argue. You have children playing on the twenty third not always supervised and then the same thing happens on the twenty fifth was there. Is there a kid involved and here here are just put it out there. Is it possible a kid did. This ended wasn't meaning harm by. It was just a kid kid not knowing any better Zandt Megan any sense at all. It's certainly make some sense to me. But I think that the evidence showing that to me it shows that the digital manipulation right is what they term it occurred and probably occurred near at or near the time of for death which I'd lean that way I'm just saying is. Is this something that we can again. It's just like with the train track marks or the stun handgun marks. I think it starts narrowing things down so if we can come to a consensus of that this there was some kind of. I'm I'M GONNA call digital molestation because it's station. Is this happening at the time of her death rowing that out. I also think because there's too many coincidences when you look at Santa Bill. There's too many odd things. His daughter was kidnapped. Twenty two years before on the date. It's unsolved kidnapping technically. Yes they find Jon Benet Ramsey in her house. But there's a ransom note so to me. It's technically a kidnapping unsolved kidnapping and this guy. Like I said I. I looked as much as could into this bear that was found and you can look at the crime scene photos and see this bear on the bed. I WANNA know if it really came from that pageant. If they can prove that. But here's what we do now. Santa Bill was hired by multiple people and worked multiple locations. We have tons of evidence out there. And here's something that the public could actually look for if your child had any picture the bill is there a bear that matches this description. I think if it does. That's enough of a reason for us to go. Hey this this guy needs to be looked into further. The other thing I would want to know is in your Santa Claus outfit most Santa Clauses were where Black Act boots. I would like to see anybody that has a picture with Santa Bill. What boots are what boots is Is he wearing at the time. And is it possible that they're high tech. which would be the marks? That were found shoe shoeprints that were found and in the basement so I think those are things that people can look into now and get us closer to some answers. It was determine that there were more than one hundred burglaries in the Ramsey's neighborhood in the months before Jonbenet's murder there were thirty. Eight registered sex offenders is living within a two mile radius of the ramseys home. And if you can't get enough of the true crime garaged make sure you check us out on stitcher. You can find all of our old episodes and any confined our other show off the record. Hey crispy colonel. What's Merry Christmas? You filthy animal Merry Christmas to everyone on out there. Thank you for joining us in the garage all year long. We hope to see you back here next year. Merry Christmas Merry Christmas and happy. New Year cheers the captain. Captain Cheers to all of the true crime garage army until next year. Be Good behind. Don't let the.

Jon Benet Melinda Ramsey John RAMSEYS Patsy Ramsey John Patsy Azzi Burke John Ramsey murder John Molesting Jon Benet Jon Benet Ramsey Ramsey Linda Hoffman Ramsey family CBS Colorado Ramsey Ramsey Old Hoffman Pugh people magazine
True Crime

American Hysteria

52:48 min | 3 months ago

True Crime

"On this season, we'll be covering our vehicles of hysteria, how pop culture and media shape our psychology society and how our national mythologies manipulate the realities we share sometimes the realities dull. I'm your host Chelsea Weber Smith, and this is American history. Who Killed Jon Benet Ramsey Zodiacs alerts and cryptograms to favors and the fully Darren Muddy has dedicated herself to keeping the killers. Chris. There was some real deep intense work that she did just a bigger sense of justice in the universe. Jon Benet Ramsey has one of the most recognizable faces in American history permanently glossy from both her heavy pageant makeup, and the fact that we saw her most often on the cover of chigney tabloids as we waited in line at the grocery store set forever next to the rows of bright. Gum and candy bars on Christmas of Nineteen Ninety, six Jon Benet was found missing from her room and a strange and rambling ransom note was discovered on the stairs, the longest and American crime history. But the little girl just six years old was not waiting somewhere to be rescued. She was downstairs in the wine cellar already bludgeoned and strangled to death this monumental mystery that came in the middle of the nineteen nineties. True. Crime Boom had everything a rich and possibly twisted perfect American family a strong with of stranger danger with a man possibly climbing through the window to find her a ransom note to dissect conflicting testimony and eye witness accounts both a lack of strong evidence and author of tiny pieces that. So many of us believed and still believe may one day at up to an answer and as we hear again and again in these highly publicized true crime cases doesn't America deserve an answer Our current true crime boom has given us anlysts, Docu series and films, podcasts and books some that breathe life back into cold cases some that expose injustice and exonerate the wrongfully accused and others that seemed to exist for pure and lucrative entertainment, many sociologists and psychologists both academic and share theorize at length about the reasons were drawn to these gruesome stories. A common explanation is that people especially women who consume the most true crime are looking to learn. How to avoid dangerous situations, the warning signs that can show us the future like a hand of Terro cards some believe that through examining these American monsters we can also explore our own shadow selves others say it releases are anxieties about the world in a controlled setting the way that horror movies can, and then there are those who claim that it's all shod and Freida a gross fascination, the visceral insensitive thrill of seeing people worse off than you. The feelings about the morality of true crime run the gamut but I'm not here to shame anybody today because if I did I would be a hypocrite. I don't think that there's any singular reason that people love true crime. It's a combination of so many factors but there may be another important underlying need that true crime soothes in us a hunger for justice that may mean more about us on a biological psychological and political level than it does about the tragedies of others that we'd love to digest. But in our fear of these American monsters who else is caught up in the Duality of victim and criminal, and how are these stories used in ways we may not even notice public fear is a very useful tool especially when it's lens is focused on the most sensational boogeyman. UNCAUGHT sadistic geniuses hippie colts smearing ritual blood on the walls allegedly handsome men with broken arms calling you sweetly into their car and silent psychopaths slipping in through your window at night in the case of the child beauty queen found murdered in her Colorado Home Boulder police detectives have now returned from interviewing about thirty people in. Georgia where Jon Benet Ramsey has relatives and of course, she was buried. Jon was polished and precocious part of a world involving children paraded before their friends and parents. She was named Little Miss. Colorado. Meanwhile, people who didn't even know Jon Benet are stopping by the house too late tributes just. Really touches your heart. Documentaries and shows made for. Movies and tabloid accusations about Jon, Benet Ramsey. Still crop up in what seems like a constant stream of content revealing very little that we didn't already know in two thousand, sixteen on a large scale. CBS. was able to sway public opinion about the case almost violently toward Burke Ramsey who was nine years old at the time of his sister's murder. With, a smattering of criminology stars there documentary called the case of Jon Benet Ramsey premiered to us. Still Hungry audience twenty years after the murder amassing ten million viewers outpacing the emmys of that year. The mini series presented evidence that Burke had killed his sister in a jealous rage and that his parents had covered it up, they ran through the typical gamut. The ransom note that jarring nine, one, one, called the pineapple in the belly of murder girl. But then they did something no one else had yet. They took it to the next level. They attempted to construct a replica of John as head starting with a replica paper skull, which was then wrapped in pig meat and grotesquely affixed with terribly askew blonde wig. Enter a ten year old boy the. For Burke who was instructed to bash the head of this nauseating version of a six year old girl with what the show purported to be the murder weapon, a heavy flashlight, and he did and like any kid getting to smash anything he enjoyed it. It was shocking. This shaky accusation was not helped by an interview with the smirking Burke, clearly a strange and uncomfortable person and a nervous smiler like me. Oh he came across perfectly, CBS could not have asked for a better villain. Burke would go on to sue the network and win but I haven't really heard anyone talk about the case since who did not immediately express their confidence that it was indeed a year old boy who did it someone who would have never faced jail time who never went on to commit any other crimes if you follow the case with any passionate all you might even be mad at me for saying that maybe he's not the killer and that we will almost certainly never know who the killer really was put I wanted so bad maybe you do to. True crime has always been a genre that begs involvement. It has a call to action. True crime asks you to be a part of history to help figure it out. In fact, it was Jon Benet Ramsey case the began the phenomenon now known as the Internet sleuth marking the greatest advancement in community involvement in each and every new crime of the century and those that have gone cold us Net emerged at the heart of this movement. A movement before Youtube before facebook before read it when the web was almost completely made up of taxed and photos rarely equipped with training or credentials these armchair. Detectives would upload documents and pictures pour over transcripts, analyze the ransom notes handwriting, and of course, post their theories and argue prolifically by late nineteen, ninety-seven USA Today had found that at least two thousand websites were dedicated to solving the case of very big number for the early Internet era. A leader soon emerged North Carolina housewife named Susan Bennett. With the earliest Jamison would plaster across Popular Forum called Web sleuths as well as other websites that she would later create herself in the vast recesses of the Internet. This sounds pretty unremarkable but not. So when we follow her journey into newspapers and television into her role as a de facto expert on the Jon Benet Ramsey case this day at home mom from north. Carolina calls her addiction somebody says you know put you're addicted you're addicted well, everybody's gotten addiction now has fans following in her footsteps. So we're online detectives and were so involved with the case that we. Have it solved. She starred on a late nineties episode of forty eight hours where she was presented as a serious authority actually there to try to discredit the handwriting analysis of experts in the case. All these years later, tens of thousands maybe hundreds of thousands of serious online sleuths are still trying to crowd source similar crimes becoming these de facto experts in tragedies that have absolutely nothing to do with them. With the Internet, we got to add our own voices, our own opinions on who done it, no matter. How uncouth into the snarling Internet in the name of justice. Before our recent boom, the nineteen ninety s were the heyday of true crime and of order commonly referred to as media circuses as trials by media like the deeply polarizing trial of O. J. Simpson after a televised police, chase his white Bronco driving at modest speed down L. as I five freeway followed by a handful of cop cars matching its pace. This chase would actually interrupt the nineteen ninety-four Mba finals game five taking up most of the screen with a corner dedicated to the game. This is a by news special report California. Highway Patrol is in pursuit of a white Ford Bronco car that was reported to be one that might contain OJ Simpson and a friend earlier today nobody. Ninety five million people more than any NBA championship or Super Bowl. Prior tuned into watch the coverage causing that one thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, four championship series to receive a record low in viewership. Maybe you remember that it was nuts and suddenly we all kinda felt like we were a part of it. Court TV had made its premiere a handful of years before as laws around the use of cameras in the courtroom disappeared. In this way, any person with that channel could watch it all unfold as if you were there as if you were part of the trial, but watching mysteries being solved and punishments play out live has always been a huge part of our culture, an import from the brutal gallows of England but with our very own. American Puritan flair. The most famous in vocal puritan, there ever was the man I like to call which trial bitch cotton mather was the beacon of morality in the late seventeenth and early eighteenth centuries, a minister author and all around stuffy dramatic. He orchestrated the devastation that was the Salem witch trials, but he can also be remembered as the first American man who popularized stories of true crime through a written medium. His most famous work was a collection of crime stories modestly called those of salt, an history of some criminals executed in this land for capital crimes with some of their dying speeches, collected and published for the warning of such as live and destructive courses of ungodly us where to is added for the better improvement of this history, a brief discourse about the dreadful justice of God in punishing of Sin with sin. Uses. Several examples of salacious crime some based in fact, and others likely fabricated in the form of cautionary tales. Women who murdered their children men caught committing bestiality servants, murdering their masters with an axe and a handful of other shocking offenses. More of the taxed however is concerned with the criminals monologues confessions made during the day of there hanging their expressed regret and final attempts at the mercy of God in the taxed cotton also takes a paternal tone asking about the slippery slope of their sins that led to this final crime often drunkenness skipping church and cursing you know the drill. Could, in fact, be called the first American criminologist a man talking about the criminals pass where he or she went wrong the root what made him or her deviant enough to such a transgression. Puritan colonists didn't really care for prisons preferring capital punishment for serious crimes like murder rape or assault, but also minor crimes like blasphemy trading with indigenous tribes being a quaker practicing witchcraft, of course, and the theft of any goods specifically for whatever reason vineyard grapes and neighbors, flowers and food needed because of hunger it says that. From the sixteen hundreds all the way up to the nineteen hundreds tens of thousands could show up for the more salacious executions getting shit faced together brawling to get the best view and stealing pieces of the ropes and scaffolding to hang above their fireplaces, buying up souvenirs like broadsides, containing poems allegedly written by the criminal while he was waiting for his death. The last public execution in America would come in Kentucky in nineteen, thirty six. Back man named rainy Beth thea was convicted of the rape of a seventy year old white woman and it was estimated that twenty thousand people came to watch reportedly chewing on hot dogs and drinking sodas and Beers. Handed out by the vendors heading off after to what one reporter called all night hanging parties it would take up until the second half of the Twentieth Century as the Progressive Movement came into prominence and these public events would disappear. But at the same time, the most famous men in all of true crime history or starting to seep out from the shadows almost begging to be caught by people like you. More after this. If you haven't heard about anchor. It's the easiest way to make podcast. Let me explain it's free. There's creation tools that allow you to record and edit your podcast right from your phone or your computer, and then anchor will distribute the podcast for you. So it can be heard on spotify apple and many more, and you can make money from your podcast with. No minimum listenership, it's everything you need to make a podcast in one place and trust me anchor has been working. So well for our show that I WANNA recommend it to everybody. So download the free anchor APP or go to Anchor Dot FM to get started. Now that's anchor DOT FM or find the free anchor APP and get started with your own podcast today. Now back to the show. The late nineteen sixties through the nineteen eighties surge of serial killings unprecedented in the years before or since with its mysterious peak in one, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, four known as the year of fear the year before law enforcement estimated that there were eighty nine active serial killers. But by this year of fear, there were estimated to be a hundred and nine. Most of us know that are often called heavy hitters, many of which have already graced the haunted halls of American hysteria have been boiled down to singular sinister traits John Wayne Gay. See Our family man clown murderer of boys, Ted Bundy the allegedly handsome man hiding in plain sight Jeffrey Dahmer the Outcast Cannibal son of Sam the delusional lovers lane murderer commanded to kill by a satanic dog. The media had long known that scary and exciting stories sold like hotcakes especially when those hotcakes presented as salaciously as possible covered in thick bloody. Strawberry Syrup no juicy detail left unreported but none sold better than the papers that literally inserted you the reader into the story unfolding live a momentous event a chance to be a part of justice with the capital J. anyone could be this prerequisite to the Internet sleuth, a breakfast nook detective if you will. So there you are sitting down with your coffee trying to crack the code of an uncaught murdering mastermind leaving the Sunday crossword untouched search goes on in San Francisco for the man known as the Zodiac. Killer the elements involved today. Chris astrologists and please guards for school buses. Zodiac killer seems to crave publicity. The psychotic killer has already murdered five. Zodiac loved attention. He sat out tons of correspondences to law enforcement in the media dares that came in the form of codes and ciphers that he wanted the public to try to crack the first for he sent out to authorities in the press came in three parts printed in three different. Area, newspapers. Only. A handful of days. Later, it was actually cracked by a history teacher and his wife to regular people like you or me though cracking the code did not lead to an arrest. It did give confidence to investigators that sharing these ciphers with the general public involving everyone might mean that the collective power of a nation of sleuths could be a good thing after all. However of the four puzzles sent only one has ever been solved for certain. The final Cypher has become an obsession and just like the Jon Benet case, it spawned endless amounts of content that attempt to crack the code. The code that many believe will reveal the identity of this uncaught psychotic genius. The evil mastermind archetype that we see in horror movies has been fueled a lot by this elusive figure but a quick revisit to a couple letters published by the San Francisco Chronicle paint slightly different portrait in a late June nineteen seventy example Zodiac threatens to blow up a school boss if his demands are not met on the back of a card featuring two prospectors riding on a dragon and a donkey with the phrase. Of endearment quote. Sorry you're ask is a dragon. This alleged genius wrote. If you don't want me to have this blast, you must do two things tell everyone about the bus bomb with all the details I would like to see some Nice Zodiac buttons wandering about town everyone else has these buttons like black. Power. Melvin. Needs Blubber, etc while it would cheer me up considerably if I saw a lot of people wearing my button. Thank you. and. Then not long after another letter arrived with a slightly different tone this is the Zodiac speaking. I have become very upset with the people of San Fran Bay area. They have not complied with my wishes for them to wear some Nice Zodiac buttons. No one trait. No one event can link all of these men together. But one truth stands alone. Serial killers are fucking losers. These correspondences were peeks into the minds of society's most reviled and it was around this time that the study of criminology and criminal psychology began to. Take up the torch starting to shirk off those simple categories of an almost biblical, good and evil looking at their childhoods and early behaviors their head injuries, their motives is they related to major life events, their animal killing mining, that great mystery of why but many in law enforcement felt like all this stuff about criminal minds didn't matter. These guys were just born pure evil full stop. Then they found an ally in a rising. Movement calling out for the opposite of investigating the childhoods of the criminal to steer the focus back to the actual victim, the deceased person and their families who seemed forgotten men in the long shadow of those the had made them into victims in a scene described by one investigators reminiscent of a weird religious right five persons including actress Sharon Tate were found dead at the home of mistake and her husband screen director. Roman Polanski. We all know at least the bones of what would become the Manson family murders, the drugs, the sex, the unapologetic almost gleeful carnage acted out against movie star Sharon Tate Coffee Heiress Abigail, folder Hollywood hair stylist J., C. bring eighteen year old Stephen Parent Leno, and Rosemary Labianca the owners of an l. a grocery store chain and Holocaust survivor Vojtech for Kofsky. We've heard the way that these often underage girls left their families chasing A. Dream they didn't understand spending years of their life like this ending up trapped in bombast ick orgies shaking with drug addiction spaced out beyond repair the coal tick mind control the too radical political and spiritual ideology that led them to all of this. The took them out of reality we know that on August Eighth Nineteen sixty-nine, the pregnant Sharon Tate was stabbed sixteen times in the stomach in her mansion in beverly. Hills. We know. The headlines of Satanic Rituals Beatles race wars, Dune buggies abandoned movie sets the failed albums of their band and the chilling harmonies that the girl sang as they stood outside the courtroom during Charlie's trial there blurry belief in the savior. Their hauntingly dopey is what many of us don't know. However what I didn't know is how the aftermath of this outrageous story and the serial killers of the coming decade that we just talked about who? are waiting in the wings help to change everything about criminal justice in America as Rachel, Monroe writes in her outstanding book, savage appetites these crimes hailed in the nineteen seventies with a rise of more mainstream feminism with new laws designed to protect women and give them more rights to safety and personal choice. It goes without saying that this was an is of vital and overdue revolution around sexual assault and domestic violence against women an. Approach that included redefining and focusing on those that had suffered the most at the hands of abusers and killers those who to this day are faced with a very court proceedings that are supposed to provide healing, but are often emotionally destructive. But the coming conservative backlash to these rights claimed by women just like in the satanic panic and with pornography, we'd see political feminism John Forces again with the right wing movement of law and order. Before this, the Kennedy Administration had passed a handful of laws to ensure rights for defendants, facing trial and limit the powers of law enforcement. These laws included the required reading of Miranda rights the right to a public defender in the law that evidence be obtained with a search warrant. Only JFK was also taking a more progressive approach to criminal justice attempting. To solve issues of poverty that were believed to lead to crime building new opportunities for low income, inner city residents to find scarce work and stay in good schools, funding education and vocational programs in prisons and allowing families to visit inmates. But running parallel were those lobbying for the rights of victims and giving all of this to offenders felt like an affront. As far as this problem of law and order is concerned. I am for law and Order Hubert Humphrey. For Longer George Wallace's for law and order how we do. It would be quite different and as far as my program is concerned, I am the only one of the candidates who has laid out a precise program for stopping the rise in crime and re-establishing freedom from fear. That's the difference between Nixon and Wallace, so senator. Against I am for that's the difference just seven months after Richard Nixon was sworn in as president the Manson murders would seriously and sensationally reinforce his staunch law and order platform as with the antiwar racial justice movements raging all over the nation and his new favourite battle against the drugs that were such a visible part of this inconvenient counter culture. It was Manson family victim, Sharon Tate's mother Doris. A charming suburban grandmother frequently described as baking cookies who would take up the victim's rights torch with a fiery vengeance as the movement gained six esteem in the latter half of the nineteen seventies at the height of the serial killer hysteria La County Deputy District Attorney Steven Kay arrived at Doris, his hair salon with a petition to deny any of the Manson family members parole at any time this. was because despite the Manson families death penalty sentences shortly after a California Supreme Court ruled the death penalty unconstitutional and replaced it with life in prison with the possibility of parole. It was then after years of depression and helplessness that Doris realized, she was ready to do something more something in the name of victims. Luckily, there was already a movement going strong for exactly what Doris was hoping for A. Focus on the victims of crime rather than the criminals. Suddenly Doris was everywhere securing positions on the Board of Citizens for truth, justice for homicide victims, the California Justice Committee and believed that children. Yes. The one of recovered satanic ritual abuse fame she was on talk shows and radio shows rallying for the death penalty to be upheld in. California for all members of the Manson family as well as murderers. At Large victimhood was beginning finally to also encompass the living left behind to provide services for the family members of the deceased to give them a voice and very soon Doris Tate would be the very first person in. America, to give a victim impact statement during a parole hearing and it was four Manson family member Susan Atkins Sharon was sentenced to death without a fair trial are without a jury. I was sentenced to life in prison without any possibility of parole. And I to you should Susan Atkins sentence the any less. Doris was furious when she found out that Manson family murderer tex, Watson had gotten married and fathered children in prison, and they often came to visit him soon after the state would ban it's family visit program and ban prisoners from receiving pell grants seriously preventing access to higher education. California previously at the forefront of progressive approaches to crime would soon have some of the highest death penalty sentences in the country without foresight. This rising movement was incidentally supporting the war on crime and conservative administrations broaden the archetype of the criminal until nuances of crime began to fade away and more and more inner city Black Brown, and to a lesser degree poor white people were incarcerated at unprecedented rates tough. On crime policies became staples of both Republican and Democratic Administrations and policies like mandatory minimum sentencing two and three strikes. Laws became the new norm in. America. As we've talked about many times on our show, the rhetoric around victims and criminals amped up even further through the nineteen eighties with Reagan's Task Force on victims of crime report. Some of the document reads in second person inserting you the reader right into the unfolding horror, which is more graphic than I decided to include here and smacks of an episode of forensic files. You are a fifty year old woman living alone. You are asleep one night when suddenly you awaken to find a man standing over you with a knife at your throat. Start to scream he beats and cuts you. He rips out the telephone line threatens you again and disappears into the night. More after this. So this wouldn't be an episode about true crime if I didn't advertise a true crime podcast, right? I think you'll be interested in this thrilling new show that's full of twists and turns it's called case closed each season it looks at a new murder from crime to conviction all the crimes case closed have already been solved. So you're never left wondering who really did it it's very satisfying this season of case closed focuses on a tight knit community shrouded in mystery. That's right the. Barbara Weaver was known to be a loyal wife and mother, but her husband ally had a reputation for breaking the rules. He had a number of affairs with women that he would meet and seduce on wine. So in Barbara was found killed in her own bed, all is ron ally until someone else entered the scene of the crime sex betrayal and a cold blooded murder. Amish. Country are waiting for you and certainly for me on case closed. So listen to case closed wherever you get your podcasts and now back to the show. True crime has always been in my blood I was one of those secretly serial killer obsessed tweens that scour the Internet for every detail John Wayne Gracie's childish prisoner Te The Wild Primetime prison interviews with Charles Manson on Geraldo Rivera Tom Snyder Barbara Walters and Charlie rose whose time with Manson would onto win the Emmy for best interview twenty years after my obsession with serial killers began on. April twenty fourth two, twenty, eighteen after forty, five years of avoiding arrest a former police officer who had come to be known as the Golden State killer was apprehended in Sacramento County a man responsible for at least thirteen murders and at least fifty sexual assaults between nineteen, seventy, three and nineteen eighty, six right in the heart of the serial killer boom much of the time he crawled through the. Windows of suburban women and terrorized his victims with unimaginable psychological and physical brutality just like Reagan described in his task force on victims of crime report this landmark event this cracking of such an old cold case came at a time when I was fulfilling my thirteen year old dream writing about true crime and interviewing those who worked in the genre for a podcast including the writer and researcher. Who helped finish the late Michelle McNamara's beautiful posthumous book all begun in the dark. That's now a huge HBO series Patton Oswalt sitting here with the lovely and intelligent the show. McNamara. My wife and creator of one of the estrogen written and creepiest crime logs on Web I just obsessed over it. What drives me is a need to put a face gone a unknown Keller. There was some real. Deep, intense work that she did. In terms of. Benefiting the victims of these crimes and you know just a bigger sense of justice in the universe. So I didn't want the book to be left Undone. The book was about the man who she named the Golden State killer about his victims about his crimes about the attempts to find him but just as much. It was about Michelle, her own obsession, her own confusion over why this case had gotten under her skin. So deeply why she kept looking for justice right up until the very day, she died just two years before he'd finally be caught. I had written an article for a true crime magazine was scheduled to come out the day he was arrested, and we actually had to rush an addendum in the pages that made the story into something. Suddenly, an entirely different unfolding live at that moment if felt like a collective success for all of us who poured over evidence is amateur Internet sleuths defacto online experts trying to carry on the work that Michelle left behind the day. The golden state killer was caught was one of the. Most. Exciting days of my life I got to like I was a part of it. It was very exciting. The word justice kept coming up again and again in the news reports and press conferences and it's true that that day the world felt more balanced if felt like there were consequences for these horrific actions and it didn't just seem like justice for the victims but it felt like justice for America at large researchers interested in the human need for in the experience of justice have. Long, studied and expanded upon what social psychologist. Melvin J Lerner coined the justice motive in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, one, the justice motive purports that a communal structure for justice evolved alongside our hunter gatherer ancestors the dominance hierarchy that was in place for thousands of years with the toughest and meanest at the top gave way to a system that simply worked better for the survival of the group. Our more recent ancestors lived in communities that shared important resources and came together to reject in. Many different ways those who were too greedy to self serving or just plain dangerous those who broke the cultural rules that the group set in place to help them thrive to the best of their combined ability. The crimes we've talked about today, our worst cultural transgressions feel personal to our giant national community. They still feel like our crimes, our hometown murders, and like our hunter gatherer ancestors, we want to join with the group to try to identify those that seek to harm our collective health. As a part of the justice. Psychologists and sociologists have also studied how true crime reinforces to cognitive biases with what is known as mean World Syndrome, which is usually explored in relationship to the media studies have shown that those who consume TV news reports or other media involving crime are more likely to believe that the world is by nature cruel and unforgiving, and that they themselves will be victimized probably soon by the rising. Criminal Class, not only that, but it appears that the more of this kind of content a person watches the more likely. They are to support increases in law enforcement presence in power, more willing to support law and order policies, and then on the flip side, there's something called the just world hypothesis. It's hard to dispute that most of us are desperate to believe in kind karmic justice that. What comes around goes around that everything happens for a reason that consequences will be served to the bad people who deserve them and blessings will come to the good. It's the simple belief that the world itself that the universe that God that whatever you WanNa call it is just and that justice will be served on a cosmic level one of the most vital studies used in the just. World hypothesis was conducted by Lerner in nineteen, sixty five, and it involved a group of volunteers watching a woman on closed circuit television who was allegedly participating in a learning test but was really a graduate student working with learner. She was seated in a room fitted with electrodes and asked a handful of questions with each incorrect answer. The subject would act as if she'd been shocked her screams were. Her body twisting in pain. One Group of volunteers was allowed a choice to transfer her to a different kinder method of learning without this negative reinforcement without this suffering, and almost all of them chose to save her identifying her with words like innocent victim someone who didn't deserve what was happening to her another group of volunteers however was not given the option to save the woman from the electric shocks and they were told that she was being paid for her participation in this learning test. Interviews with volunteers showed that the less money they were told, she was receiving the more they began to blame her saying that she either wasn't paying enough attention wasn't a good learner or that the pain was justified because she'd become smarter as a result I know what's a little confusing but here's what learner concluded from the experiment quote the site of an innocent person suffering without the possibility of reward or compensation motivated people to devalue the attractiveness of the victim in order to bring about a more appropriate fit between her fate and her character. To put it plainly those who are victimized make us uncomfortable if we're unable to help them and so it becomes easier to blame the victim because if the victim receives no money or more broadly, no justice, it shakes the foundations of our belief in adjust world we realized the world can be horrifically random and that any of US could be next with no real way to expect or prevented, and since everything happens for a reason, the victim must have somehow brought this upon themselves. In Reagan's Task Force on victims of crime report victims were presented with words like in. Pure and we're buying large white women sexually assaulted by a stranger at night or old ladies robbed at gunpoint while shopping downtown those who are far less likely to be harmed and far more likely to receive justice than at risk groups like sex workers and drug users in the unharmed those who rarely received the title of innocent victim those who subscribe most strongly to the just world are also more likely to feel negatively toward oppressed groups and less likely to categorize them as innocent victims trying instead to find reasons that their treatment is justified unable. To face the discomfort that the world itself may not always be just just like those who believe in the mean world those who believe in a just world are also more likely to support law and order political leaders in social institutions like the police and prisons as they exist. Now, it's like public hangings, publicized trials, True Crime Investigations, and even victim blaming are these dark magic rituals aimed at restoring the cosmic order away from cosmic chaos all the way back to early colonial life where small sins that held death penalties stealing from your neighbor blasphemy witchcraft. Beside murder and rape as if they were crimes on par with each other, whatever you feel about the correct punishment for sensational crimes like serial murder, the conditions are cultural monsters deserve to live in after their sentencing. The fact remains that are prison policies aided by the Mirage of rampant true crime events have affected all inmates, many of whom are there for drug crimes or robberies folks who with the right social programs with family visits educational opportunities financial investment in communities would all be less likely to become repeat offenders or to even enter prison in the first place? Governor Jerry Brown was a politician who pushed for tough on crime legislation in the nineteen eighties alongside the victim's rights movement and Ronald Reagan. But by the two thousands, he realized that it had been a mistake quote what we did what I did. We didn't fully grasp the consequences. We just didn't know and I say it's an error that should be corrected. It's important to remember that true crime has helped solve cases. It has brought closure to families. It has helped to get the wrongly accused out of prison. It's helped to hold law enforcement accountable to expose huge flaws within the legal system, and it's fueled vital changes in the name of victims rights. But at the same time, we know so much of it is exploitive and horribly insensitive like the case of Jon Benet Ramsey that had no problem implicating the brother of murdered girl and turning him into a villain for profit unleashing the wave of often rabid calls for. Justice in what sometimes starts to feel like Internet, hanging parties and the negative effects of true crime are ever present because it sells and it always has for better or for worse as a result were inundated with it because we want it and that cycle has seriously skewed our perception of crime and the potential for our own inevitable victimhood rates violent crime have been dropping steadily since the early nineties. But the majority of Americans in poll after poll believed the exact opposite and according to true crime, the threat is constant and it's coming to a suburb near you. A quick glance at the investigation discovery lineup tells us just how frightened we should be with shows like evil lives here the killer beside me fear thy neighbor and of course, stranger in my home. The root word of victim comes from the Latin Victoria Thima meaning sacrificial animal, and it seems sometimes politicians and our culture again, and again can sacrifice our archetypal American victims and all of us who are said to be future victims to the gods of law and order, and we can even use past indiscretions real or imagined to sue the our own fear that perhaps the universe does not hand us our justice instead many seek to create this justice to find ways to create a. Just world for all of us in our messy national community, we are hardwired to do this and that at its core is a beautiful thing but a lot of things can be wrapped around our fear around our ideas of justice because these ideas have always been ordered politically socially and culturally. So sometimes, our ritual hope becomes nothing but the upholding of an unjust status quo while further cementing our strict and dangerous categories of us and them of good and evil of victim and criminal. People like Doris Tate those actually affected by sensational true crime events have every motivation to march headlong and courageously into their activism so that these horrific events might never happen to anyone else ever again. Then there are people like Michelle, McNamara, and Susan Jameson Bhanot who became de facto experts and cases that had nothing at all to do with them, and yet somehow lived at the center of their world's all different kinds of people history teachers, solving Psychopathic Ciphers, armchair detectives, Internet sleuths, bloggers, and writers, and directors and podcasters and journalists people like me and maybe people like you. The murder of Jon, Benet Ramsey, and its subsequent investigation has crystallized into something that feels closer to fiction. Than fact, it's become a movie of itself. There are characters, costumes, quotes. There are moments we know are coming. We wait for the footage or we wait for the reenacted moment where Patsy Ramsey says through tears in televised news report we know exactly the way she says it. Babe. If you even occasionally give into your sensational side. You'll have seen a dozen patsy Ramsey's this line, a dozen John, Ramsey's run into the wine cellar and fall to their knees a dozen mysterious sinister men crawl through the window in the night. But none of us have ever met this little girl this family and yet when the question of ethics comes up after a little boy smashes a fake skull covered in Pigskin we have our response. Doesn't America deserve an answer? Maybe, the question really is don't we need one? Standing in the Line now my items pulled toward the register full of cash I'm still pulled toward those tabloids beaming her same face back at me again and again year after year, and maybe you are too. She will always be hours. Jon. Benet she will always belong to us an American legend a dramatic sequined mystery in full red white and blue. This was American history. Next, time on the show, I'll be talking with the brilliant Rachel Monroe the author of savage appetites for true stories of women crime obsession a huge inspiration for this episode. Don't miss it and then join us in two weeks the night before the election for our long awaited episode on Fake News. The nonprofit we'd like to highlight for this episode is called the insight prison project, which works to transform the lives of those impacted by incarceration by designing and implementing rehabilitative programs designed to develop emotional and vocational skills and reduce recidivism learn more and donate at insight prison project, dot org, or click the link in our bio American hysteria is written produced and hosted by me Chelsea ever. Smith sound design by clear. Kamo. Studios Co researched and written by Riley Smith Co produced by Miranda Zickler with voice acting by will rogers were so excited to be back for season four and we wanted to remind you that you can become a patron and support our show. You'll get extra content every month like interviews, extra episodes, videos, and all the hot gossip before everyone else we. Also have some very cool merch available on our website right now t shirts tank tops and tote bags. So make sure you head to American hysteria DOT COM and check that out. Make sure you also follow us on social media always doing weird interesting funny things over there and you'll learn a little bit about the episodes before they come out also consider leaving us a review it. Really helps our show out in one God. I'm just so excited to be back with y'all thanks as always for listening and this wouldn't be a show about true crime if we didn't pay. Oh my gosh to podcast patron. Saints. Karen, and Georgia of my favorite murder. So let me leave you with this stay sexy and don't worry too much because you're probably not gonNA get murdered. Pinky, you want a cookie. A?

murder America Jon Benet Ramsey Charles Manson Jon Benet Michelle McNamara Jon Doris Tate Burke Ramsey Sharon Tate California Chris astrologists Chelsea Weber Smith Ronald Reagan Emmy Georgia Patsy Ramsey