19 Episode results for "Patriot Community"

127 - Becoming Nobody

Secular Buddhism

40:00 min | 10 months ago

127 - Becoming Nobody

"Allo and welcome to another episode of the secular Buddhism. Podcast THIS IS EPISODE NUMBER. One hundred twenty seven I am your host Noah Rochetta and today. I'm going to talk about becoming. Nobody keep in mind. You don't need to use what you learn from Buddhism to be a Buddhist you can use what you learn to be a better whatever you already are before jumping into the topic for this podcast episode. Let's talk about the Zenko on shared and the last podcast episode. When you can do nothing what can you do? I WANNA share a couple of thoughts from some group members in the Patriot community Just as a refresher the Patriot community is a group of people who are supporting the podcast and we discussed the Zenko. On's there every week. We talk about mindfulness concepts and topics and of course the podcast episodes and a few other things and I like to share some of the perspectives and ideas. That come from the community from the group on these Zenko on so I want to start out with that. So Sean says Open quote. Don't just do something stand there. If you can do nothing do nothing. And I like a close quote. I like the thought that Sean shares you know. Don't just do something stand there. Standing there is doing something. And if you can't do something then do nothing Those are both good thoughts. And they evoke this Question that technology. Han often asks he says is nothing something and in this case and in all cases nothing is something we have an idea in our mind of what nothing is so to do that. Thing is to do something so. That's a fun way to think of it. And to explore this concept Joey from the community says open quote when we get to a point where we cannot react to the stimuli around us and do nothing all possible. Actions are now open to us. The ability to do nothing is not inaction plus quote again. This is sharing that same concept that same idea that by doing nothing we actually are doing something and the ability to do nothing not inaction and I think sometimes we kind of have this concept in our mind of what nothing means and we think of an action and I think this is similar to that I guess whole conversation that you could have about acceptance versus resignation right. We have an idea of acceptance is and sometimes the idea of acceptance is more accurately to be described as resignation and acceptance isn't resignation and in this case. Doing nothing isn't Might not be what you think doing. Nothing may be doing something. And I'll get into that in a minute when I share my thoughts on the con- but I want to close with the thoughts from fest also from the community who says the notion of not doing is part of the Chinese influence the Taoism on Buddhism way. Alan Watts has a whole chapter in one of his books on the topic. He interprets it as not forcing things or we might say going with the flow or not trying so hard John Cabot Zinn also has a chapter on not doing in his book. Wherever you go wherever you go there you are. I love the idea. It's been an elusive poorly understood and inconsistent practice for me just to be still and not concerned about getting anything done. I think meditation is a form of not doing just being still for its own sake. Close quote and those are the thoughts some of the thoughts that were shared in the Patriot community and I really enjoyed The various perspectives takes around this co on. There were several more. I DIDN'T HAVE THE CHANCE TO SHARE. Everyone's but it's always fascinating to take a Cohen and to explore it and of course the the principal perspective is. What does this mean to me? But then it's helpful to get insight from other people who are in other places in in life other ages live in different communities or societies and just have different perspectives. That can add light to this in a way that maybe I hadn't thought about so it's always fun to read other perspectives. Now when I think about this When you can do nothing what can you do a similar to what was shared by some of the group members I think of the concept of of what is nothing And I think nothing is something and it's it's funny this week. We've had this experience going on here in our community in in Mexico now as a reminder. I live in a tropical place and we're surrounded by Rainforests are or just forrest. I don't know exactly what it would be. But it's tropical forest and lots and lots and lots of birds and in our neighborhood where we have a whole bunch of trees if you walk out the front door You'll see a whole section of trees that are full of birds and happens to be the season right now. That a lot of these birds. I don't know what kind of birds they are. But the the baby birds are Taking their first few steps and trying to learn to fly and unfortunately we've had a lot of them come down from the tree too early. Some of them seem to have fallen and they're tiny nowhere near ready to fly and then some of them have reached what looks like that stage where they thought that they could but they weren't quite ready and they flew down Kinda Flapped in and had a very soft landing and now they're they're stuck and the neighborhood kids have been seeing these and running to take care of the birds in the. I didn't notice it the first few times because there was a bird that seemed sick and some the security guard picked it up and took it in a box and then a few days later there is a bird that also seemed sick and The neighborhood Kids decided to adopt the bird and they put it in a box and they carried it around and it eventually died all these birds that were being cared for were dying and somewhere at this point that I realized wait a second. These aren't sick birds and I noticed what was happening in the trees and realize there are lot of these little birds and some of them end of flying in a lot of them don't and one particular bird Just two days ago landed down in the Grassy area right by our house and he was just hanging out down there and the would I presume is. The MOM would fly down and Feed him you know. They open their beaks and they they kind of feed regurgitated food and it was fascinating to observe that this bird. That wasn't quite ready to fly was down there a still being fed and then he would flap his wings and try and try and try and wasn't quite ready in about a day and a half Around the middle of the day of the of the second day that it had been down there it's suddenly flew and it was really cool to watch and I had this conversation with my kids while this was happening because they wanted to go take the burden. Put IT in a Box. Like they had seen and they had done for a few days now and we sat and we talked about the The importance of allowing the bird to to run the course of what it needs to do that. We can observe but we cannot do anything we have to just watch and you know I throughout the week ahead. Already been thinking about this co on when you can do nothing. What can you do and here we were. There was nothing we can do. And what could we do? We do that. We could do nothing. We could allow the bird to run. Its course and I felt sad that we had missed the mark or that. The kids had missed the mark. You know a few days prior with trying really hard to help these little birds and putting them in. The box was a death sentence because the moment the kids were around the bird. The MOM couldn't come down to feed them wouldn't dare come down because people were around and the bird died not because it was sick but because it couldn't be fed and the security guard didn't realize that the maintenance the lawn person didn't realize and the little kids in the community obviously didn't realize that and it wasn't until I saw I was sitting out there while the kids were swimming and I was just observing. What are these birds doing? And I saw the whole process taking place in connected and I thought Oh. Oh that's what's happening so with this specific bird that We decided to name hop see because it was hopping around trying to fly for a day and a half hops. He finally took off and it was a really neat opportunity to talk to the kids about this Cohen. When you can do nothing what can you do? And it was when we realized that we should. We should have been doing nothing all along That we saw what was actually supposed to happen. Happen in hops. He ended up flying and it was a neat experience. But it got me thinking about this. Like how often do we do this in our day to day? Lives not with the bird but with with all kinds of circumstances and Things were we. Don't know better and we're thinking here's the thing I'm GonNa do and doing something. It was the wrong answer. Doing nothing would have been the right answer and in doing nothing. You're doing something you're allowing it to run. Its course and I can't think of any specific instances but I know that's had to have happened multiple times in my life where the intervening action probably made the situation worse and had a done. Nothing I would have been doing something probably much more skillful than whatever I was doing by doing what I thought was something and I'm sure you can probably think about and recall. Some kind of an instance like that in your own life or you can observe this in someone else's life and that's a fun way to think of this co on when you can do nothing. What can you do So that's the Cohen. And I want to jump into the topic now that somewhat correlates with this co on and that's the topic of becoming nobody so in the podcast community. We have a an ongoing book club. And the book they were reading right now is The magic of awareness by onto. And there's a chapter in this book that talks about the concept of being a nobody or It warns against the danger of becoming somebody and I wanted to share a little bit about this concept. Because I'm I'm always interested in trying to explain. I guess what we hear the same ideas over and over and over again but in different from different angles from different perspectives. Because what you may have heard two or three or four ten times from different angles. Suddenly you hear from this angle in it clicks Oh Okay Now. It makes sense and in. That's why you're kind of never done talking about these things. So this is an example of that the the concept of awakening. I want to correlate that with the concept of becoming a nobody becoming. Nobody so this This concept was brought up in this book the magic of awareness. And there's a story in there. Well there's a quote that I've referenced. Before BY LAUNCH SHAMBA. Who said good concepts are like a gold chain? Bad concepts are like an iron chain. They all equally bind you in the end and so this idea of concepts and the idea of ideas or beliefs or opinions that we hold can be very binding and I wanna talk about that a little bit because the what were we before we became somebody. Now I wanNA talk about stories. We know that we are storytellers. As a society we tell stories. And it's it's our ability to tell and collectively believed stories that has catapulted us from Caveman to where we are today as a modern society right they are ability to collectively believe. Tell the story that this green or this little piece of paper is worth something in our ability to collectively believe that allows us to have a commerce. Entire FINANCIAL SYSTEM. Works his way right. This is why we can use bills of paper to do transactions and not have to be bartering. This thing for that thing. We can actually use money but money. The idea of money is an idea. It's a concept it's a shared story and it's a shared belief that this paper is actually worth something but these stories that we have We have about everything and probably the most important of these stories for us to want to understand are the ones that we have about ourselves so we have a story about who we are that somebody is an idea. It's a concept it's a shared. Well maybe it's not a shared belief but it's a belief the you have. Maybe it's shared. You've convinced other people to buy into the same story that you believe about who you are but then there are multiple layers right. There's the somebody that I think that I am the somebody that you think that I am the somebody that I think you think I am the somebody that I think I should be. The you know and I it just goes on and on all these super intricate layers of the story of somebody. And there's a little story that really illustrates the importance of understanding that we have stories about the somebody that we think we are. So this is a story. I'm kind of paraphrasing again. That I heard in this book the magic of awareness and it's the story of a essentially a teacher and his student a master a disciple We'll just say two monks and the senior monk or the teacher was always telling the the student don't become somebody never become somebody and the student said. Okay I I understand that. I'm GONNA follow that. And then one day while travelling on pilgrimage or or some form of travel. They stopped by a place and decided to sit down and arrest. I think in the story it was a palace or something along those lines and they decided to rest and they fell asleep one in one room or one in the other room they were just both there Some let's call it a palace grounds and suddenly the king returns and realizes these two wandering monks are sleeping. There in one of the one of the rooms are one of the quarters. I don't know if it was a courtyard. But somewhere in the palace and the king arrives in his furious that who are these two people who just have the audacity to beyond my property so he speaks to the student. I wakes him up. Who are you and the student immediately goes into trying explain. Oh we're just monks and we're travelling in what we do is this and that. And and the Kings just curious and just accept A. Rod or a whip and starts beating him as he runs off his property and the guy is Running scared I presume and they can. The king approaches the teacher. And says who are you and and this time the teacher just looks at him and says But didn't answer in the king kind of confuses the insisting who are you who are you again. The master says And at this point the king I guess frustrated and just yells. This man is a half wit. Get him out of here and they kind of run them off. But he doesn't hit him or beat him with the whip and then later the teacher and the student meet up and the teachers as I told you never become somebody the moment you decided to become a monk. That's why he started beating you. Why would be in a palace and he said I remained a nobody? Nothing happened to me. And that's the gist of the story. I like it as a as an example of the fact that being a somebody in this case ended up being a painful experience because the somebody Did Not match what someone else. In this case the Keane would have thought is a valid. Excuse for that somebody to be in his palace and by not becoming somebody. The other one was easily dismissed as a half wit. Now most of us in an instance where were You know were suddenly confronted with having to defend who we are or were asked who are you. We have an idea of who we are that somebody that we are Needs to be defended and that somebody may not the somebody. Somebody else is thinking that we are. And then you you end up in the situation. Where you're you're experiencing pain so to speak and you know the the story. It's a whip or or a beating with a cane but we essentially put ourselves in a position to feel pain or discomfort because of the somebody that we became so to me. The gist of the story of this lesson is that when You know the the. The teacher had no reason to defend who he was Now as simple as it sounds when someone says who are you to just respond to me. That sounds very simple. But we don't do that. We all have a story of WHO? We are and by. Golly we have to defend this is who I am. This is what I believe. This is what I You know this is my opinion whether it's a political religious I don't I don't care what it is whatever. The view is of the somebody that I think I am. I'm GonNa take that seriously and if somebody's going to ask me about it. I'm going to have the tendency to want to really protect the story. I have of the somebody that I am. We all kind of have this tendency. And that's what's fascinating about this practice. One unique way to look at all of this is to say what about the practice of becoming a nobody or becoming Becoming nobody in the sense that I have a story that have about. That's fine. Keep the story but recognize. It's just a story and then what happens is I'm not so attached to it anymore. I can recognize that the story I have about myself is just that it's a story and when the story gets confronted by someone else asking who are you. I have nothing to defend because sure I have a story but I don't need to dependent hot. I don't even know if my story is accurate. That's kind of living with the I don't know mind right. that uncertainty but becoming nobody in the sense is in a very real way allows us to have a freedom to be. Whoever we are and I think a lot of times we become somebody and that causes us to feel pain and suffering. Because we're always defending the somebody that we think we are so when we have. Let's call these masks masks of identity when the mask of our identity becomes somebody that we think we are. It's almost like we're the ocean. The ocean wave the thinks. It's a wave and doesn't realize that it's just the ocean now that to me is a very profound Insight into the nature of my relationship with Reality Carl Sagan famously stated that we are all star dust in his statement sums up the fact that you know litter in a literal way the carbon nitrogen and oxygen atoms in our bodies as well as the atoms of all other heli heavy elements were created in previous generations of stars over four point five billion years ago but somehow we don't fully understand the implications of that and instead we become somebody rather than remaining nobody you know the start stardust that we are. That's everything it's literally everything and I like to imagine the moment of the Buddha's enlightenment. Perhaps it was nothing more than the Buddha realizing that he was nobody he he let go of the idea of being somebody and we're always talking about peeling away the layers right the concepts the conceptual understandings that. We have of ray of reality stripping away the mental conditioning the ideas and the beliefs. The that we have about who we are and about reality in the same way that you can take an onion and you start to peel away. Layer after layer stripping away the mental conditioning. And if you go through it far enough layer after layer. You realize there's nothing there. The onion was the layers and in that same way. The onion is nothing and we are nobody what we are all the layers that make us who we are now realizing that we are nobody is perhaps the most beautiful truth will ever understand somehow in that new perspective. We can be liberated from the chain of being somebody the golden chain or the iron chain as that quote implied the good or the bad concepts but equally binding concepts that we have of who we are one of my favorite quotes of all time. I've shared this before. Is the Picasso quote. That goes like this. My mother said to me if you are a soldier you will become a general if you are a monk. You'll become the pope instead. I became a painter and became Picasso to me. That is a really powerful quote that I think. Ties very well into this concept of of becoming. Nobody Picasso was free to develop into himself. The nobody that we all now have made into a somebody now. When I say a Costco I have an idea of what that means. I've made him a somebody but he was essentially nobody. He was wasn't trying to be anybody else. He was trying to be himself now. Can you see the irony in his way of thinking that We're always aspiring to be somebody that somebody that I think should be the somebody that I think. My parents think I should be your that my spouse thinks I should be or that I think my kids think I should be your that my siblings or my society or that my religion or that my you name it right. The there's always the somebody and this is a very liberating switch from that way of thinking that goes to saying no my practice is becoming. Nobody I am not trying to acquire something new. I'm trying to strip things away. Layers of beliefs layers of concepts layers of ideas and opinions to return to that uncondition state. The state of being nobody to me. That is a really fun. Way To think about this idea of enlightenment. Now I think And this is my opinion of course but I think when when the Buddha had that moment that he realized he was nobody I think anybody could have approached him and and try to call him out on whatever he was doing like. Oh you think you're just this enlightened person 'cause you sat here and meditated. He'd just laugh. He literally had nothing to defend. There was no somebody in his mind that he thought he was and he would be free. And you can see this in some people it. It's very liberating to not have the story of somebody that I need to defend about myself. And if you're GONNA question me about anything and say oh you're you're this or you're that or you you know if I if that conflicts with the story I have about the somebody that I think I am. Then yes that's we're going to have a difficult time and I'm GonNa have to defend that if I don't have that story about me I've literally become a nobody like the guru or the teacher in that story if you say who are you. I can say Because I don't know I don't have an answer to that and then you could next thing you'd say. Oh who's this half wit? Oh well that doesn't bother me. I'm a halfway to you okay. That's who I am and and then you allow yourself to be whoever the somebody that you think I am. That's enough I'm cool with that. I don't have a somebody that I need to be and I really liked that. I think that's just a a really fascinating concept to play within your mind especially in our day and age where we have very very strong inclinations to want to be somebody a in all kinds of different facets of life right the somebody that you are at work. We have an idea of what it means to be successful. That's a somebody a successful. Somebody An unsuccessful somebody. That's still a somebody a winners as somebody a losers somebody Someone who's right someone who's wrong someone who's righteous someone who's evil all these are somebody's and then in the middle of all that there's the nobody that's that's not bound to any of those things. There's a story about a monk named Jose who wanted to become enlightened and he wanted to be like the Buddha so he approached the Buddha and implored him to teach him how to become enlightened and the teacher replied and said when you want to become an enlightened one. The teachings of the Buddha or any other teachings are not necessary. You must look within and listen to yourself. And that's a story that comes from one of the traditions and I I really like it because again to me. This goes hand in hand with the Picasso quote a Picasso's success whether it was accidental or not was that he became himself the Buddha's success similar was at he was striving after something realize he was the source of it he he just had to look inward and I think for us. It's the same. We always make this mistake of looking out there. Oh I want to be like so and so I wanna be like the Cosso. I WanNa be like the Buddha. I WANNA whatever but as this little story implies when you want to become an enlightened one when you wanna be like these people that you look up to these. Somebody's in your life. Then that's the time to look within and listen to yourself. Perhaps the very first step to becoming What you thought you on it all along was to quit wanting to be somebody into start striving to be nobody. That's just a fun a fun way to think. Now there is a word of caution here We were really good at playing that. Game of cat-and-mouse. Alan Watts causes the game of cat-and-mouse in our mind it's like Oh okay now I wanna be somebody her now. I WANNA be. Nobody and I'M GONNA turn the nobody into the somebody that I wanNA be in here. I am caught once again in my own game and we so we want to be careful of that to you. Can't just pretend oh here I am. I'm being a nobody look at me because now the somebody that I am is the nobody that I want you to think that I am. That's the somebody that I am and I see this all the time in these in these meditative circles where take if I want to be really mindful and peaceful. I gotTa make sure you know how enlightened Im. I gotTa make sure you can see how peaceful I am and you can catch yourself in this game and if you catch yourself that's it the game is over. You can't trick yourself so we're always looking inward and we're trying to catch that art of us. Why do I WANNA be somebody? Why do I WANNA be a nobody? Why can't I just be content? Being exactly who I am right here right now in this specific stage of life to me. That is enlightenment. Wanting not wanting anything to be any different than how it is so. That's something to keep in mind as you explore all of these concepts but imagine how different life would be if all of our views opinions and beliefs were flexible enough to adapt to to take in new evidence and new information and say. Oh Okay here. We go and we pivot now why. Why do we hold on so strongly to our ideas especially the idea we have about who we are the somebody that we think we are or the somebody that we think we should be that somebody that we think others think we should be and we get really really caught with these ideas? It's there like traps and you get caught up in these spider webs. Almost an and you just feel stuck and to break free from that. Web to break free from those chains whether they're gold chains or whether they're iron rusty chains they're still chains and to me. That's what this is all about breaking free from all the concepts and ideas that we have about who we are. That's the somebody so in a small way I've I've encountered this a couple times in my life already and I wanNA share these with your real quick because I do think that they're hopeful in with the overall context of this podcast episode Many of you know when I was younger in my when I was nineteen and twenty. I lived Oversee overseas in Ecuador serving as a missionary So at the time I was out there knocking on doors and and and preaching Mormonism and I had this experience early on in my mission where we're walking down the street and there is a group of younger people sitting on the sidewalk drinking and they started blurting things at at at. Us I was with my companion. You probably know they're like missionaries are usually out there to two at a time and so this is like the person that you're assigned to for however many months and so my companion and I we call them. Companions were walking on the street when this group of like Hoodlum stood up and started Swearing at us and then one of them picked up one of the the glass bottles. 'cause they were drinking and threw it at us and I was so deeply offended because I thought why would you do that? You don't know who I am. I'm not your enemy and just took it really really personal and in the days after that experience I had a really fascinating shift of my in my mindset when I suddenly realized. They didn't throw that at me. They don't they don't know me they don't know anything at all about me in fact if they did know me they probably wouldn't have thrown that. We'd probably get along pretty well because I'm a nice person and I've never really had a problem with having enemies or anything like that. So that's part of why I was so upset and offended that somebody would throw a bottle at me to WanNa hurt me but I realized they were throwing it at something at somebody that they think that I am and then in the somebody that I thought that I was was offended by that and here I was the reality was they. Were throwing et something that I represent you know at the time in Ecuador. There was a lot of animosity against the United States because of their own Political and economic problems that they were experiencing an Ecuador back in the at the turn of of the decade or no turn of the century the year two thousand and there was just a lot of animosity and they were throwing the bottle at the somebody that they thought that. I was an and luckily I made that connection early on and it changed my experience for the rest of my mission because I allowed myself to not take it personally and the rest of my mission was not about me. It wasn't me there. I was representing something bigger than me. At the time that was meaningful to me as representing Church that I believed in her or the ideology that I believed at the time and I was a part of something bigger than me and that was that was my first time ever encountering this experience of being a nobody and feeling liberated from the idea that I had about me now. Ironically it happened many years later in similar context when I stopped believing in mormonism and I had to kind of remove myself from the day to day experience of being a Mormon and stopped going to church and living in a community that was very religious and with mormonism I was encountering the same experience. Suddenly people seemed a little standoffish with me or perhaps a little concerned like. Oh No. You're going down this path of of unrighteousness or your amid they. Nobody ever implied that has evil but they kind of they kind of. They're scared of you. Suddenly you're this black sheep or poisonous in a way and this was that same feeling. I had where I thought you might as well be throwing bottles at me and saying get away. We don't want you here because they were now uncomfortable with me. Why at first? I took it personally right but then I realized this is no different. I have become a somebody to them and in their mind that somebody is not the kind of person that I should be not the kind of person they would choose to be and that somebody created problems and I for a moment allowed myself to keep thinking. Oh no no I need to prove to you. I'm this other somebody. The somebody that I have in my mind is very different than the somebody that you guys have in your mind and I wanted to somehow reconcile the two and it was impossible. That cannot be done. I couldn't change the somebody. They have in their mind. But I could change the somebody I had in my mind and I became nobody and in a very real way and this was an overnight. This took months and years. This is actually a lot of what led to Buddhism for me was the suffering I was experiencing by suddenly becoming the somebody that I that I knew. Other people didn't approve of and here in the process of stripping away. The idea had of the somebody that I was I ended up becoming nobody and suddenly I was in a lot of ways like that The Guy in the story who when people would ask me so do you. Are You Still Mormon Do you still believe in this I didn't have an answer. I had become a nobody. And that's kind of where I find myself now. I no longer feel the strong sense of defending or protecting the somebody that I think I need to be protecting. If you if you if somebody's GonNa come to me and say hey you know. You're naive fooled person. The Devil has fooled you and Blah Blah Blah and. Tell me that whole story. I have no problem with it because I know that's just the somebody that they have in their mind and I don't need to defend it or Or push myself away from that definition of the somebody that they have. I can't do that anyway. I'm perfectly content now with just saying okay and moving on and that like I said that was definitely not easy. Took a lot of work but it had nothing to do with them. All along had everything to do with the somebody in my mind that I was that I was trying to prevent myself from being seen as this somebody in trying to prop myself up as this other somebody and it was all in the somebody but the moment I I understood the concept of the nobody. I felt free. I was totally liberated. And now it's You know I am not. I am not nearly as sensitive or concerned about what somebody thinks of me or how. They think that I am or how wrong I am. Or how Misguided I am or what you know whatever they WANNA call it. It doesn't bother me and in the same way of somebody does the opposite. And they're like Oh man you know you're so wiser. Oh you have a podcast and you've this and that the that's also just the somebody that you think I am. I'm just I'm much more of a fool than anyone think. I'm not wise and if someone does it backwards you're such a fool okay. I'm I'm not really a full but if that's what you think I am. Nothing I'm nobody So I just wanted to share those. Two things correlate that with the overall topic of becoming nobody. I think it's a practice and it's something I strive to understand and myself all the time. Who's the somebody that I think that I am or the one that I think that I should be or the one that I tried to avoid being? Where all these complex layers of the relationship? I have with bean somebody and then how do I practice being? Nobody and at the end of the day this is stepping into the uncertainty of at all. I don't know who I am but I I know how I feel right now so The nobody that I am right here right now. That's how I got to work with and that's the topic I wanted to explore. So that's all I have for this podcast episode as a whole. Thank you for listening if you want to support the work. I'm Dan with the PODCAST. Consider becoming a patron and joining the online community where we discuss these Cohen's and podcast episodes and have a steady group and things like that. You can learn more about the online community by visiting secular Buddhism Dot Com if you enjoyed the podcast episode Feel free to share it with others writer review give it a rating tonight tunes. All of those things help now. I must mentioned this is a pretty cool milestone this week. I don't know when it's going to happen. But it's only days away that the podcast will now have six million downloads and it seems like yesterday. I was saying that we were at two two million downloads in Just been growing so much month after month year after year. And it's really fun and really exciting and I'm very grateful for this journey and the Fun Times that I've had doing all of this and exploring and talking about all these concepts I just WanNa say thank you to all of you who listen to this and who have been a part of this journey with me now before. I let you go. I do WANNA share a Cohen for you to think about between now and the next podcast episode in the Cohen goes like this among asked Keegan. How does it enlighten one? Return to the ordinary world Keegan replied a broken mirror. Never reflects again fallen flowers. Never go back to the old branches and that's it that's the end of the Cohen. That's all I have for this podcast episode. But I look forward to recording another episode soon until next time

Cohen Patriot community Alan Watts Buddha Picasso Sean Ecuador Noah Rochetta John Cabot Zinn Han Joey Costco Carl Sagan Kings Keegan Mexico Cosso Keane Golly
131 - The Truth Of Unsatisfactoriness

Secular Buddhism

27:46 min | 9 months ago

131 - The Truth Of Unsatisfactoriness

"Hello and welcome to another episode of the secular Buddhism. Podcast this is episode number one hundred and thirty one. I am your host to know a Rochetta and today. I'm going to talk about the truth of unsatisfactory. Nece as always keep in mind. You don't need to use what you learn from Buddhism to Buddhist. You can use what you learn to be a better whatever you already are. Furthermore if you are new to the podcast listening perhaps for the first time or you've jumped in on these podcast episodes recently. I want to remind you that episodes one through five Have a summary of the basics of Buddhism. And you can find these by scroll in all the way back to the original. I five or you can visit secular Buddhism dot Com and click on. Start here also another request. I've received quite regularly is a request for suggestions for reading material and books. If you're interested in learning more about these concepts and ideas feel free to visit secular Buddhism dot Com forward slash books and there. You will see my recommended. Books that I've read and that I wholeheartedly recommend for anyone interested in exploring more about Buddhism or about any of these General topics and concepts that I discussed in the podcast so quick update on my own life. I recently as you may have noticed. Didn't record a podcast episode last week. Because I've been on the road many of you know that I moved to Mexico for a year with my family to help my kids learn to speak Spanish and to identify with the culture since. That's where I'm from. But in light of the recent worldwide events and the potential social unrest and economic changes that are happening all over the world including for me much of my work related to online advertising which I can do remotely has dried up so I had to make a decision and rather than waiting till June to move home. We decided last week that we should go ahead and make the move now. Flying home was not the tricky part. We knew that would be easy. The tricky part of the scary part was how to get all of our possessions home. Because we knew that that would require me packing them all up into the car and driving all of the possessions back home. And that's exactly what I did so I've been off the radar a little bit for the last seven days. It took me seven days from last Wednesday. I left early in the morning. Made my way through driving From essentially the southern part of Mexico all the way to the north crossed into Texas made my way up to Dallas visited my parents and then made the journey westward from there and recently made my way back to Utah. So that's what I've been up to in the last seven days and that's why I was not able to record a podcast episode last week so here. I am catching up. Okay jumping right in. I want to talk a little bit about the co on that. Says what is the sound of one hand clapping now? This is a Cohen that I wanted to bring up because it's one of the classics. It's one of the main ones that you're going to hear when you start studying or reading about Zenko Ans. I WANNA share some of the thoughts that come from the Patriot community and I'll start with David. Spots says for me. The answer to this week's Cohen is whatever is perceived by the listener Nina from the community says this co on brings up the emptiness of things as well. As intervene a clap is made up of non clap elements which dismantling it would be the fingers the hand the skin the bones the brain the cells etc so ultimately the sound of one hand clapping is empty of sound because a clap is relative to what is perceived to be a clap. I like those thoughts Nina and then Matthew says whenever I hear this co on I remember when they had it on the simpsons and it opened. Lisa's mind I agree with a lot of what others said which is interesting because before I used to try to solve the puzzle but it is much like if no one is around in. The tree falls in the woods. Does it make a noise? It is about perception I think it is also about things not having an intrinsic meaning. What is a clap is at two hands hitting each other if so how hard what if I touched them ever so softly can one hand clap? Maybe you can hit your palm with the fingers of the same hand and what if you slap your thigh with your palm like you often do at a sports event or if you have a drink in one hand. That is one hand clapping. And I know the noise that it makes. And that's at the end of of Matthew's thoughts and I agree with all the sentiments that were shared in the group ABS as always. It's a fun Experienced to hear other people's perspectives and their thoughts regarding one single topic. In this case. What is the sound of one hand? Clap in now for me. I feel like trying to answer is the problem because I could. I could equally ask Other questions like what is the sound of anger and if I were to ask what is the sound of anger you can give me an answer. You could say it's yelling or it's grinding your teeth or it's punching the wall with your hand all of which could be correct but all of which are also incomplete because perhaps there isn't an actual sound to anger. There's you know events that can arise with anger as its causes as it's causing its condition and I think with the sound of one hand. Clapping. You can run into similar issues because you'd have to define what is clapping. I remember in school. You had to. Sometimes you had to be quiet in class but they wanted you to clap. You can lift your hands in the air and and kind of rotate them back and forth like air clapping but there's no sound taking place and that counts as a clap. So then it forces you to have to define as clapping an act of celebration where I want you to know that I'm celebrating with you. And that counts as a clap is specifically the two hands that come together if so what about at a sporting event where I take those two long sticks you know the clapping sticks a hit those together to make my clap louder. Does that not count? Because my hands aren't touching and it can become problematic because I have to define what is a clap so then I'm left with this idea with one the set. What is the sound of one hand clapping? Well the sound of one hand clapping is the sound of one hand clapping however I define it. I may be missing the point but I will always be correct by saying that. The sound of one hand clapping is the sound of one hand clapping and now I leave it up to you to imagine what that means to interpret the meaning of that. That's how I like to think about this specific Cohen. It's an invitation. Always to go inward and ask myself well. What does clapping mean to me? What does the sound of one hand clapping mean to me so jumping into the topic that I have for this podcast episode the truth of unsatisfactory? Nece I'm going to echo some of the sentiments. I shared an episode one hundred and twenty two. We don't eliminate suffering and episode fifty seven discovering all pervasive suffering. The truth of unsatisfactory nece is a title that we could use to talk about the first of the noble truths so in Buddhism. If you were to ask almost any Buddhist what the core basic Buddhist teachings are they would probably the four noble truths and the first of the truth is the truth of suffering or the truth of unsatisfactory Nessa. I like the word unsatisfactory more than Suffering but it's the same general idea and here the what we're trying to understand is that the nature of reality is that difficulties will arise and we will experience suffering or unsatisfactory nece. We can begin to embrace that fact by recognizing the suffering in general is not personal. It's simply part of the experience of existence and we will experience suffering no matter how hard we tried to avoid it whether we for my magic formula to remove it or we chase after money to buy it off or seek fame to drown it out or whatever if we pray meditate perform rituals to try to shield ourselves from it suffering and some form will find us. It is the central problem of human existence. The diagnosis is universal. It's not just you. It's all of us. The rich the famous the powerful the pious everyone. If you think you're alone with your difficulties just spent some time talking to others and ask them about their problems. And if they're open and they're honest you'll soon discover that everyone has struggles and pain and unsatisfactory nece to contend with what we learned from the Buddha about embracing suffering. Is that life is going to be easier for us when we truly except the suffering as a part of life for everyone they're simply no way around it now. I wanted to bring this topic up because in recent weeks I had a discussion with a friend of mine. Matt who brought up this concept this idea of acute suffering versus chronic suffering and what he wanted to elaborate on was that sometimes when we approach Buddhism and we approach these big concepts topics around suffering. It seems easy to apply these to some form of acute suffering. Like some big change. Like you lose your job or you lose a loved one or you realize that you're sick things of that nature but what happens when we experienced this level of unsatisfactory nece in the in the in a chronic sense it's low. It's a lower magnitude of unsatisfactory yet. It's there and we just kind of deal with day in and day out and often for months or years or even our whole lives and in that discussion I wanted to. It made me think about this Buddhist concept of all pervasive suffering. So if you've read some of my books that talk about the topic of suffering I mentioned the the various types of suffering and I think it's important to recognize an highlight that there are indeed various forms. Were ways to suffer. One of them is what we call all pervasive suffering. Keep in mind for a second this notion of all-pervasive suffering which is essentially that there's always at any given moment some- underlying and satisfactory nece. That's there and what we want to identify. As where does that come from so just as an example on my drive here as spent seven days sitting in the car driving my shortest days were ten hour drives and my longest days where fourteen hour drives so doing this day in and day out. I had a lot of thoughts about discomfort and unsatisfactory. Nece in a stand from things like my foot is going Numb to. My legs are really uncomfortable. My lower back is hurting. All of the discomforts that come with sitting in a car for that long but it got me thinking. What if I went back in time at some point I would say transporting? My possessions is really hard on this sled so I am vent wheels. Oh well that made it a lot easier and for a split moment. I'd be grateful that is so much easier to pull this wagon with my possessions rather than pushing it or dragging it on a sled and then I might realize oh. It was way easier when I tendered this wagon with wheels to an animal and I let it pull me. I'm so grateful for that. Now and then there would be discomforts that arise from that. I'll I'm T- I'm I wish my animal didn't need to rest so I could keep going. I wish it could go faster. 'cause this is taking forever or I'm I'm going numb sitting on the back of this horse or something like that and then motors are invented and they come along own now. This is easy I get in this vehicle and just go and again while but at slow or and what. I'm trying to get the overtime. This process has become better and better and better and better. Why because we generally don't like discomfort so we're constantly looking at ways to Ezer minimize the discomfort and thanks to that we've evolved to the point. Where here I am taking a seven day. Drive that Traverses from one whole country to another like. It's pretty incredible that I can do that. In a car and sure there are difficulties that arise because that's the nature of life. Is that there. There are always going to be difficulties. And that's what I wanted to highlight. Sure I could make this better. What if I cut it from seven days down to three days There would still be discomfort for sitting for three days or one hour We do this when we're on the airplane right. We can be on an airplane taking a flight. That's going to be an hour or two hours long that covers thousands of miles or something and were unsatisfied. That the Internet right now isn't working and I can't watch the movies. The screen in front of me has broken or something like that. And this is what I want to get out with the idea of all-pervasive suffering or what Matt was talking about more chronic form of suffering. This is evident things not just because I was taking a drive. But let's use a another example Matt and I talked about this and the example would be. Let's say you're in a job and you're not completely satisfied with your job. There's an underlying level of unsatisfactory. Nece with your job. The problem. That arises isn't the unsatisfactory. I think the problem. That arises is that we feel the unsatisfactory Nessin. We think that we shouldn't feel it. It's like we've believed for. I don't know from societal views or wherever these views came from that. If we're suffering even a little bit than we're doing it wrong and I see this all the time when I receive emails that ask about tips or advice about parenting for example and Buddhism and the general vibe. I get from these types of emails that hey parenting is pretty hard therefore I must be doing it wrong. How can Buddhism helped me to do it right so that parenting is hard anymore? It's almost like nobody told us that. Parenting is hard. Somehow we all bought into this lie. Which is that if you do it. Right Parenting Azizi. And that's the problem. The problem isn't that parenting is hard. The problem is that parenting is hard and we don't want it to be hard so here. We are comparing because of social media. Whatever what we think other people's parenting experiences like and we're thinking they must be doing something right and I must be doing something wrong because if it's hard I'm not doing it. Right and Buddhism kind of steps in and saying no all pervasive suffering is that parenting is hard. There's just no way around that. There's no escaping it. Imagine that you have a restaurant that you really enjoy and at that restaurant you have a specific dish a meal that you that you really enjoy so you always pick that now you may have this underlying unsatisfactory nece. If you start to think I really like this but man. What if there's another meal at a net on another restaurant that I might enjoy more if I think that absolutely could be true than yes? It's difficult to fully enjoy this meal because what if there's another meal that I would enjoy more so I wanna go taste all of them now. There's no way around this because you cannot taste every dish every restaurant in the world it cannot happen. It's physically impossible so when I recognize that then I can learn to accept. There is going to be a level of all pervasive suffering. Every time. I eat a meal no matter how good it is because somewhere in the back of my mind might be the thought. What if there's another meal somewhere else? That would have liked more. Now take that same line of thinking. Corley thought to other. Bigger things like Relationships I think this is a big deal and relationships and we think will. I'm in a relationship and some days. I'm thinking what if I had married this other person instead? I don't know someone you dated in college or high school and you start having those similar thoughts. What if there was another Relationship out there. That would be better than this one more compatible or whatever and the truth is will. Yeah it very well could be. But here's the catch. You could be in that relationship and you'd be having the exact same thoughts. What if I had married the other person and there's no way around that because you can't have the experience of being in a relationship with every single person in the world it cannot happen. It's physically impossible so there's always going to be that all-pervasive unsatisfactory nece in every relationship. That is telling you what if what if it would have been different. Well yeah that's fine so what I wanna get with this. The the idea here is that when these thoughts arise are win this general underlying form of all pervasive suffering arises. There's nothing wrong with it. The the only time this becomes problematic is when that arises and then we start thinking. Oh what does that mean own? Maybe you know an. Don't misunderstand me here. I'm not saying if you're in a relationship just stick with it. There's no there's no better relationship out there. That's not true either and plenty of people who were in miserable relationship and ended up getting divorced and I ended up in a much happier and healthier relationship later. So I'm not sane stick with things. I'm not saying that what I'm saying is you're never going to find the one that is perfect in the sense that I will no longer have any form of unsatisfactory. Nece whether it's the meal at your restaurant or the person that you're married do or the way that your parenting your children or the job that you have there's always gonna be that what if and I think it takes a lot of skillfulness to decide if and when it reaches the point that you actually should do something about it. I've done something about it in terms of my job. I wasn't happy with a job. Once they finally did something about it and I was much more happy in in another job and I've made career changes that even now I feel like I am really enjoying my job. I cannot imagine the line of work that I do teaching people to pair glide. I cannot imagine something more fun and yet there is the all pervasive thought of well. What if I had become a helicopter pilot? That was my dream as a youth. Or what have I had become an air force pilot and I flew jets are would if I would have had the chance to become an astronaut and I can go down that path and sure it's true. What if one of those things would have been way more enjoyable than than what I do and I don't know because I wouldn't know unless I was in those shoes and I might be in those shoes thinking. This is Kinda stressful. I wonder what it would be like to. Just be a a paraglider pilot or a paraglider instructor so the point I want to make. Is that when this when we identify this all pervasive suffering this underlying unsatisfactory? Nece that permeates everything we can learn to recognize that it's perfectly okay to experience all-pervasive suffering or all pervasive unsatisfactory nece. It only becomes problematic when we experience it. And we think we're not supposed to be experiencing this because then we start buying into strange conceptualization that we that we have in our mind. Which is well. If I don't like this job I shouldn't be here and again. I'm not saying stick with the job you don't like that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying if there's there's a difference between identifying the all pervasive suffering that's their versus. This is an acute form of suffering and I definitely need to do something about it. Like my bosses mean to me and I can't stand my boss Than Yeah. Do something about it so please. Don't misunderstand my what I'm trying to get at here. I'm not saying stick with a a bad relationship with a bad job. Another way to think about this away that came up in our conversation this morning in our live zoom. Call the community hall We were talking about the concept of judgment and how One of the listeners are one of the participants mentioned that he's trying hard to not judge people and I brought up the fact that judging people is a natural thing we all do it. And it's because we're hardwired to do it. We we have to make quick assessments to decide. Are we safe right? This is an evolutionary thing where we can almost instantly say. Is this person on team us on team them. And that's we're hardwired to do that. So what I wanted to make clear was. There's nothing wrong with judge gene. It's the attachment. We have to the assessment. We made in our judgment. That can be what's problematic so for me. I catch myself judging people all the time and when I do I just remind myself well. That doesn't mean that I'm right. Certainly doesn't mean that it's true and I have reasons for why my judgment goes one way or the other and that's based on my societal views. My upbringing my all kinds of things things that I cannot help but what when I realize that I'm doing it. I can remind myself that just because I thought that doesn't mean that it's true and if I were to spend time getting to know this person I may be pleasantly surprised at how wrong I was and that has happened to me. Various Times. It's also happened. Where the more he gets to know them. The more the more confident. I am in my assessment that I had already made of the judgment. I'm sure we've all experienced both of those things but the point here is that judgment isn't the problem. The problem is attaching to the assessment. We made in the judgement. And saying I know that I am right and I am definitely not wrong. That is that attachment can produce a lot of difficulties. Now it's another thing to say. I've judged this person but now I'm open to see how they really are and I'm gonNA spend time trying to get to know this person and and the whole different thing. So the correlation. Here's the suffering a similar. We experienced suffering because the nature of life is that unsatisfactory. Nece ARISES RIGHT THE MOMA. We want things to be other than how they are. So the problem isn't that we suffered the problem. Is that we attach ourselves to this idea that we can somehow through a magic formula eliminate it and I know it sounds tricky because Buddhism proposes this as a formula right the four noble truth truth of suffering the truth of the causes of search suffering the truth of cessation of suffering and the truth of the path that leads to the cessation of suffering. So there would seem very clear. That what we're implying here is if you practice Buddhism hard enough in the right way you eliminate suffering and the although that's what it sounds like. There's a huge caveat there. Which is I? We gotta define what is suffering and distinguish between what is natural and what is self inflicted and then realize what we're talking about in terms of eliminating any kind of unsatisfactory nece is the self inflicted unnecessary unsatisfactory nece because the all pervasive There's always gonna be that underlying form of unsatisfactory nece because of the nature of reality because of the nature of the fact that I cannot taste all the meals at all the restaurants of the world. I will always be left with the prospect that this meal that I enjoy no matter how much I like it. There could be another one out there that I would enjoy much more. I'll never know because I will never taste it and that to me is powerful to know that is the truth of unsatisfactory nece so going back to parenting really quick. Being a parent is hard. There's no way around that. The problem isn't that being a parent is hard. The problem is that we don't want to fully accept that it's hard because we somehow still believe that if it's done right it should be easy and that is the problem. That is the lie. That is the mental conditioning. Parenting is hard. Being alive is hard having to go to work. Every day is hard There's no way around that. And that is the truth of unsatisfactory nece so I hope that these concepts and ideas help a little bit with the understanding that in life difficulties arise and. That's not a problem. Well he wants to do as we want to start understanding the causes and conditions of are unsatisfactory nece and getting to know ourselves and getting to the point where we understand ourselves better. And that's all I have for this podcast episode as always. Thank you for listening if you want to support the work. I'm doing with the PODCAST. Consider becoming a patron and join our online community where we discuss these. Cohen's and we discussed the podcast episodes and we have a weekly study group and live interactions with the QNA. And the zoom calls. Every Sunday you can learn more about the online community by visiting secular Buddhism Dot Com. The enjoyed this podcast episode. Please share it with others. Writer review give it a rating tonight tunes. That's all I have for now but I look forward to another podcast episode soon before I go here is your Zenko on to work with between now and the next podcast episode older teen asked Lynch. -I master what is the great meaning of Buddha's teaching Lynch EA came down from his seat slapped Ting and pushed him away was stunned and stood motionless among nearby said teaching. Why do you not bow at that moment? Teeing attained Grayton light. That's all I have for now until next time.

Cohen Matt Suffering Mexico Nece Nina Matthew Zenko Ans Lisa Utah Dallas Patriot community Texas Teeing Nessin David Writer
125 - Keep Calm And Carry On Skillfully

Secular Buddhism

28:29 min | 10 months ago

125 - Keep Calm And Carry On Skillfully

"Hello and welcome to another episode of the secular Buddhism. Podcast THIS IS EPISODE NUMBER. One hundred and twenty five and your host Noah Rochetta and today when to talk about skillful action in times of uncertainty and stress. Keep in mind. You don't need to use what you learn from Buddhism Bermudez. You can use it to learn to be a better whatever you already are before jumping into the podcast topic for today. I want to discuss and share some thoughts around the Zenko on that I shared in the last podcast episode. And this is the Cohen goes like this lean. He said there is nothing I dislike now. I'm I mentioned in the previous podcast episode. This is one of those lifetime co onset. You could really work with us for for the rest of your life constantly analyzing and asking yourself. How is that possible to to reach a state where there's nothing that I dislike and like I said I I like this co on a lot and I like to revisited? Think about it often. I WANNA share some of my thoughts around it. I I want to share some of the thoughts that were shared in our discussion group so on the Patriot community for the podcast we have discussions around the podcast episodes around the Zen coonskin and many other things but these are some of the thoughts that came out of the discussion around this specific Cohen. So Christina said open quote there are parts of me ego states that disliked things and suffer from these emotions but I the IM parentheses can choose to access other parts ego states. That will help me find inner peace about these things through. Mindfulness and meditation through choosing I can think enact more skillfully despite disliking the person or situation and then she goes on to say it's also fun to think. There's nothing I like. You can play with this and ask yourself. Are there also times when I don't even like the things that people I almost always like? Who am I in those moments close quote and I really like what Christina shares here I like that. She's showing the other side of the same coin. If I'm going to say there's nothing I dislike. The similar analysis would work say there is nothing I like and I think that's accurate when we when we'd really start to break this down and that's another fun way to work with it when you find yourself a person or a situation that you really do like to ask yourself well Do I really like what part of me likes this person in the same way that we do with things that we dislike now. Bob Shares a slightly different thought. Here he says so. This Cohen amuses me since my current focus seems to be observing. How often I arises within me. This Cohen reminds me that disliking is not possible when there is no I close quote and I think that's one of the powerful parts of this Cohen for me is the recognition of who is the I in the statement. There's nothing I dislike and when I understand or have more. Skillful contact context around this. I that supposedly goes around liking and disliking things than yes. I suddenly discovered there is no I to be disliking anything and in that sense. There's nothing I dislike is accurate because there is no I I I like that interpretation. Morella shares this. She says open quote the Cohen. Made me think about equanimity and non attachment. There's nothing I dislike. When I observe without getting attached it is an invitation to look inward and investigate. Why am disliking something or someone? I usually find that the reason I dislike something or someone is because of cravings versions or fear and I love the idea of using the CO as a reminder to look deeply into the causes of my dislikes and work with my cravings versions close quote and yes I really like what Morella is bringing up here which is what I try to mentioned with all of this right. This is always an invitation to look inward and to find the reason why we dislike something or someone rather than focusing on on the dislike or even the like as if it was this thing that is not that has nothing to do me and I think that's where we get stuck. Sometimes we treat things like if there's something that I don't like it has everything to do with the thing I don't like and doesn't have much to do with me when in reality if there's something I dislike it's me that's doing the disliking so it's it's about looking in and finding that what. What part of me doesn't what I'm experiencing this person that I'm with and for me. My thoughts regarding this Cohen. I really like investigating the I in terms of impermanent send interdependence again this notion of when I can see through the illusion of there being a permanent or independent me that exists going around this world and liking things are disliking things when I start to see myself in the context of impermanent bean impermanent and being interdependent in other words the impermanent me is the me that one day. I like this another day. I don't the interdependent me. Is that under this set of circumstances. I like this under this other set of circumstances. I don't like it and when I recognize that that gives me a a big sense of freedom because I can recognize I may dislike this thing now but in another place or in another time I might like it and also from another vantage point. You may like this and I may not like this and if I were you I would liken and dislike all the same things that you like and dislike. I think. Sometimes that's hard for us to really understand because we really do have this tendency of thinking that the way we go about experiencing life is the most accurate way to a certain degree it is. It's not that it's the most accurate it's that it's the only one that makes sense because we've only ever experienced life from one vantage point the one that we're in right now in this present moment and it's really hard to put myself in someone else's shoes maybe to some degree. If I could say well I've been there before so I can see why you view this this way or that way. Or why you like this or dislike that because they've been where you are that's a little bit easier. But that's still an incomplete picture because I've never been where you are right now where you are right right now as there were. I am right now is here and those are not the same place. They can never be the same place. I can only ever be where I am here. And now therefore my perspective and my interpretation of reality is unique. It's mine it's it's the only one that I'm capable of of experiencing and to me that's really helpful to know because I can take your interpretation of reality and when you give me a description of your likes and dislikes. I can at least understand that. Wow for you that must make perfect sense because my picture of reality makes perfect sense to me and there. I think there's wisdom to be had in simply recognizing and acknowledging that well if I were you and I was in your place in time with every single set of circumstances in causes conditions. That have allowed you to be who you are right here right now. I would probably be doing and saying and thinking the exact things that you say in thinking do I would be believing the exact things that you believe or disbelieving the same things that you disbelieve and for me. That's really powerful. To remind myself of that I cannot help but to experience life the way I'm experiencing it and this has been a really helpful perspective anytime. I encounter some kind of clash so to speak with in terms of us right like someone will approach me like. I just don't understand how you could not believe what I believe. And they may not say it like that. But that's the implication and I sense compassion when I hear that because it's like recourse you can't you can't possibly fathom why. I wouldn't believe what you believe because you don't know what is to be me to think like me to see the world the way that. I see to have experienced the things that I've experienced and the same thing is true backwards. It may be really difficult for me to grasp. Wow how can you see the world through that Lens or how could you believe this? Or How could you believe that? And holding the back of my thought the very same thing like well. Yeah I cannot make sense of that but because I'm not in that specific lace and space and time but I can at least acknowledge that if I were I would see it exactly the same way that that person views it and that helps me to not feel a sense of judgement or I don't know sometimes people feel like almost indignation like how dare you see life from perspective. That's not mine and it's just crazy because what you can't I can't see it from your perspective. You can't see it from my end and I can't even change you. I cannot put you in my shoes now. Sure we may end up having shared views at some point that it won't be because they were forced right anytime you try to force a perspective on someone else. It usually doesn't work. They're just going to entrench in their view of you will always be the only one that makes sense now. If you want to expand that you have to be willing to burst of all acknowledge that there's more to be known and be willing to think of other perspectives and read books and talk to people and try to understand how Whitey see the world the way that you see it to me. That's what gets this. Cohen gets to the heart of that. There is nothing I dislike and I like to think of that for myself right if I to go around and say there's nothing I dislike but also that expression applied to someone else when I'm with someone who says I like this where I like that. I agree with that and be like I get that you like this or I get that you like dislike that it may not make sense to be but if anything if I have any sense of skillful action here it would be helped me understand. Why and maybe just maybe with a little bit of skillful communication and and time and patience on the part of both people doing the communicating. You may understand a little bit more about why someone views something one way or like something or dislike something and I think in in our current environment. That might be a really skillful thing to do now again. I can't change someone else's views and that shouldn't be my goal but I have I feel like there's almost a sense of responsibility on my part so at least want to understand someone's views and this can get really uncomfortable really fast so this is something that you had practice and don't get into topics that you're gonna be really emotional about because that's not going to be skillful and that's going to. It's like putting yourself through torture. But if you've reached a point where you can be more non attached to your views into your beliefs into your ideas and opinions than it can be a really skillful thing to develop a gay ability to have discussions with people about their views and their opinions and their ideas especially the ones that don't match with our own. Let's like You see this this way. That's very foreign to me. I'd love to know why you see it that way and maybe it just arrived to okay. We'll I guess we'll have to agree to disagree but at least I have a little bit more understanding now about how you view things are why you view things. Those are some of the ideas that come to mind. I think of this co on. There's nothing I dislike as I go. I go through my day to day life and I've encountered situations or people or any anything where that feeling of liking or disliking arises. I like to remind myself of this. There's nothing I dislike. And then I'll analyze that whatever that circumstance or the person or whatever and think okay. The interdependent impermanent version of me. Who is the guy that's doing the disliking and then for me? There's a second component to this because the word dislike. What does that even mean? What does it mean to like something to dislike something and I like to think about that? In the context of all things have like the tone about them. It's a sense of leisure or a sense of displeasure Liking something the reason you like something is because it feels. It doesn't produce a sense of discomfort or pain is doing the opposite. And anytime you identify something that you like or dislike. There's an opportunity to really practice because liking and disliking is kind of the core of what we call the three poisons in Buddhism right. There's the aversion to the things that we dislike and then there's the craving for the things that we like and those can both be always innis and then there's the third one which is the ignorance right so the the moment I can identify. Oh here's something I really like. I want to understand. Why do I like this? I may find. It's not skilful may learn something about myself by pausing asking myself that and same with the things that I dislike the moment or something. I dislike. Wait a second. Why do I really dislike this? Is it really me the dislikes this or like I mentioned in the last podcast of visit me? That doesn't like food or is it my tastebuds if I understand it. It's my taste. Buds will that changes the relationship. I have with the disliking and that same way of thinking I think extends to anything that you like or dislike so again. The whole goal for me with this Cohen is. I'm trying to learn a little bit more about myself So keep that in mind now. The next thing I wanted to discuss was the concept of keep calm and carry on skillfully as all of you know the The Corona virus is something. That's affecting day to day life for much of the world now and it's been growing and it's been something that's fascinating to watch and to see unfold and I thought it would be appropriate to share some thoughts around Mindfulness and what if any would Buddhist teachings be trying to convey to us during a time like this so I wanNA show some some of my thoughts around this topic and I thought it would be appropriate to dedicate a podcast episode to this so I wanNA start off by sharing a quote and this is by payment children one of my favorite quotes where she says. The most difficult times for many of us are the ones we give ourselves so this quote from payment is a quote. I really liked to think about often. Because it's true. You look at this in your own individual day-to-day life and actions and and pay attention to how many of the difficulties that you experience have to do with Difficulties given yourself and as a society. I see this especially right now. In the context of what's happening with a chronic virus you can see how we create so many of our problems for example the fear of uncertainty or the fear of the unknown and honestly the fear of death. It can cause us to be very unskillful with our actions and out of a sense of panic. We may go by all the toilet paper for example and then we complicate things for ourselves and for everyone else and because we live in a world that is interdependent everything that we do affects everything else and the bad news with this is that we ourselves are the problem but the good news is that we are also the solution so I wanted to bring up this con- This context of heating calm and carrying on skillfully. I think if we all strive to be a little more skillful in our actions and we try to refrain from giving ourselves and others any unnecessary difficulties. Now is the time to practice something like that. Now is a good time to remember the British advice on attitude during World War. Two to keep calm and carry on but I like adding skillfully at the end of that because there are people who are carrying on there are the Hustler who go and buy up all the toilet paper so that they can try to turn around and sell sell it for more money and not only that not skilful it's not beneficial it's not helpful You could argue. It's not skilful livelihood and the truth is that it ends up hurting other people. There are people who actually need supplies and they go to the store and they can't find it because somebody unskillful it now. At the same time it would be unskillful to not stock up on some supplies. But if you you know there's a fine line between do. I need enough supplies to get me by for a few weeks while everything's kind of shutting down. Yeah that seems pretty skillful. Do I need enough supplies to carry me through the next year while now right now? That's not very skillful. Because you're going to disrupt the supply chain demand goes up and we run out of supply it starts to disrupt things and it only complicates. Things makes things more difficult for everyone else. And again with Acting skillfully right now in regards to travelling or the attitude of just kind of ignoring the dangers of spreading spreading the possibility of spreading the disease or the virus. Now these are all things that we need to consider right now. Nine zero s as this was all initially unfolding. I was really tempted to just treat this like look less. Just carry on and keep going about our day to day lives and I read an article about a flattening the curve. So if you were to visualize this on a graph there's an exponential curve that happens when a virus starts to spread and the more that we interact with other people that infected people interact with other people. The the growth of that curve is really exponential spikes and then it's kind of just as fast as it came. It'll start to go away. But what happens with the spike? The problem. The reason this is problematic is because our current system isn't capable of handling a lot of sick people at the same time so the idea of flattening the curve means we spread that out so that it spreads the disease or the virus spreads slower. And you May. Let's just say you have the same amount of people over the course of the next year. Who ARE GONNA get it? It's the same amount. But in one scenario they all got it in one month and in the other scenario it was spread out over. Let's say six months or whatever and if you were to visualize that on a chart what you would see is the hospital can handle now. Let's just using random numbers as an example twenty people per month over the course of five or six months in one month now. They're handling one hundred or two hundred people that month. That's the difference and I. I hadn't really thought about it that way when I visualize that. I felt a sense of responsibility to do my part to help flatten that curve and that also entails not traveling. I had a trip planned in. May to go to France kind of a work trip with the the paragliding company. That I'm a brand ambassador for. I was going to go do a paragliding trip in France and I've been looking forward to. This is something that was going to go do with my brother and it got cancelled because of all of this and of course. I was disappointed and then realized how irresponsible that would have been wanted for them. The organizers to leave it Planned and then here you have people from all over the world congregating doing exactly the unintentional thing. That happens when you do that. Which is we're all Risking spreading this from one country to another and from one community to another. But it got me thinking okay. Maybe I haven't been skillful in my understanding of how viruses work so I started reading about it and when I encountered this concept of the of the curve and flattening the curve. Okay we'll now this whole make sense to me and now I'm totally on board with the idea of of Separation and isolating myself for a time and all of these concepts that are starting to emerge so for me this concept of keep calm and carry on Fits really well with my practice. You know it's kind of funny. In a way to think that people will go out of their way to isolate themselves from everyone else to spend time alone and and even pay to do that but call that a retreat. I'm going to go on a spiritual retreat to pay the isolate myself so that I can For whatever reason you're going in here I guess one way to do this now. It's kind of a forced retreat. Now I get the third differences. I'm I'm home now with my kids whose school is now cancelled for a month So the dynamic of staying home on retreat alone is very different than we're all. Kinda stuck at home now and we have to my wife and I both still have to work. We have to also entertain the kids though probably have schoolwork that they're trying to do so there's GonNa be a lot to juggle so in that in one way it's not you know. It's not really a retreat but if a retreat isn't focused around everyday life and challenges than I think the there's no point of the retreat in the first place so in a way here we are on retreat immersed in some of the more uncomfortable. I guess you could say aspects of day to day life and there's going to be plenty of practicing mindfulness here in the next month for Ross and I'm sure for a lot of you listening wherever you are whatever circumstances you're in like the whole world right now is kind of in some ways being put on retreat and. I hope that we can spend this time to get to know ourselves to practice looking in to get to understand ourselves a little bit more and to practice how we handle our aversion to the things that we dislike are chasing after the things that we like. I guess what I'm trying to get. This is a great time to practice. And I think it's really an away. It's Kinda cool that we can take advantage of almost any scenario any situation and turn it into an opportunity to practice and that in itself is a form of practice because if you have the mindset of. I'm only practicing when all the circumstances are adequate and just the way that I want them to be. Now sit in practice. Will that kind of defeats the whole point? The point of a practicing the reason that people even WanNa practice. Mindfulness is so that when they are in a circumstance that is uncomfortable. They're more comfortable with the discomfort. Will here we are? This is a really uncomfortable situation. That's happening all over the world and there's GonNa be a lot of opportunities to be thinking about There is nothing I dislike and applying that to everything that you dislike. That's happening in the world right now in practice with it get to know yourself look inward practice. This concept the looking in the mirror looking in so. Those are some of the thoughts that I wanted to share about. This dunk out by all the toilet paper. That's totally unnecessary. It's not cool. There are parts of the world where there are no problems with that fortunately here in Mexico. There's no sense of panic whatsoever. All the stores are completely normal and walking around everything. Seems like there's nothing going on. Hopefully that's not something that will end up backfiring in the next few weeks. I'm guessing some of that. Hanoch spreads the US. It wasn't like that three three or four weeks ago and now it is. Europe wasn't like that four or five or six weeks ago. Now it is so we'll see how things go but for now things are good here and all of us have this opportunity for practicing retreat time and I wanted to just share these thoughts with you and as a unique episode where. I'm not going into the normal topics like before the one ride just wanted to discuss the virus situation and for those of you who listen to this who are on the Patriot community. This is a great place in time to interact with each other. Spend time on there. I will be on there engaging with you regularly and practicing together. What are the things we like or dislike? What kind of tools we have access to. I will be uploading some guided meditations and things of that nature and for now. It's all I have for this podcast episode as always. Thank you for listening and if you want to support the work. I'm doing with the PODCAST. Consider becoming a patron and joining our Patriot community where we discussed the Cohen's in the podcast episodes and many other things and you can learn more about that by visiting secular Buddhism Dot Com as always. If you've enjoyed the podcast episode lease share it with others and write a review or give iterating tonight tunes. And that's all I have for now but I look forward to record recording another podcast episode soon. But before I go here is your Zenko on to work with between now and the next podcast episode. Two monks arguing about the temple flag waving in the wind. One said the flag moves. The other said the wind moves. They argued back and forth but could not agree. We name the six eight TRIARC said gentlemen. It is not the flag that moves. It is not the wind the Moon. It is your mind. The moves to monks were struck with. That's all I have for this podcast episode. Thank you for listening until next time

Cohen Zenko Patriot community Christina Noah Rochetta Morella TRIARC Morella Bob Shares Europe Whitey France Mexico US innis brand ambassador Ross six months
117 - Noble Silence

Secular Buddhism

25:00 min | 1 year ago

117 - Noble Silence

"Hello and welcome to another episode of the secular Buddhism. podcast this is episode number one hundred seventeen. I am your host Noah Rochetta today. I'm going to talk about noble silence. Keep in mind. You don't need to use what you learned earned from Buddhism Buddhist. You can use it to learn to be a better whatever you already are now before I jump into the topic for today and before I talk talk about the Zenko on that I left in the podcast episode last week. I want to address the fact that today I am recording this podcast episode. On on December eighth which happens to be Bodey Day and many Buddhist countries Japan specifically bode as the day that celebrated as a commemoration Morais Shin of the Buddha's awakening so today millions of Buddhists around the world commemorate the awakening of the Buddha and his realization that he was his his own source of light and darkness for me. This is a reminder that when we learned to look inward and we start to understand the nature of our own reminds we also start to see things differently now what we see in the world may not change but how we see the world does change and that changes everything a couple of days ago I was talking to my son Reiko about how as he gets older. He's going to rely less and less on. What I I and others tell him is the right thing to do? And he'll start to rely more on more on what he himself believes is the right thing to do and I gave him the example. Sample that right now. He may only brush his teeth at night because his parents are telling him to do it but one day he'll probably brush his teeth because he himself cares cares about it and he won't need to be told he will just want to do it. While external sources and guidelines can be helpful and they can pointing the right direction they will never be more powerful than the inner guidelines that we awaken to as we spend more time looking inward and get into the we know ourselves for me. That's the beauty of what we celebrate. Today it's an invitation to continually look inward and to understand yourself to to make peace with your own mind and reached the point where your thoughts words actions are all in harmony so to anyone listening today on Sunday December Eighth Happy Bodet and now. Let's talk about the Zenko on that I shared last week. So the Cohen says designing asked. Houston where do you come from. Shoeshine said from the south. These young said Buddhism in the South these days. Shoeshine said there is extensive. The discussion these Said how can that compared to me here planting the fields and making rice to eat Xu Shang said what can you do about the world design. Said what do you call the world. Now this comes out of I believe the book of Serenity now I posted this on the Patriot community and we have discussions there every week. After a record podcast episode oppose the episode. We usually talk about the podcast or discuss and or discuss Zenko on. That's in the podcast for that week. And I wanted to share a couple of thoughts that came from there. The first one is from Dan who says dion inadvertently provoked a valuable point if frames of reference are relative. How can you judge things if his world is his farm and he's doing an awesome job being a farmer is that any less than say a president of a country whose world world is physically bigger but just a different frame of reference and? I really liked. That thought that Dan shared. I think he's on to something there where that's to me. That's also what this Cohen is. Trying to point at the idea of. What do you call the world and more importantly what you call? The world may not be what I call the world and this was kind of discussed again in the in the community. Stefan said it seems like a typical discussion between shoeshine and depressing. Zang all the way up until the end and this might be a basic answer but I feel all these is asking from. Shoeshine is clarity. For what is world and I think it ties perfectly with this podcast about south because even though world and self are two different things I think. The abstraction Buddhism presents of them are exactly the same meaning. Self is nothing but the compilation of everything everyone has ever thought of you yourself included but but it does not really exist and is different to everyone. World is nothing but the compilation of everything. You have sensed an experienced to those around you as well but it doesn't really exist and is again different to everyone. Stefan goes on to say these concepts tie in nicely with the his my read different than your read philosophical gem in the end do any of these ideas of self for world even matter. The present moment will happen but anyway whether we all see the world or our individual selves the same were completely different from one another he then says to really stretch it out and possibly Sibley invite a healthy debate I think self and world are as irrelevant. As many of the frequent discussed existential thoughts that frequently come up in nudism awesome. It's an unsettling idea I but really opens one's mind up when one accepts the idea and thank you for sharing that in the group Stefan a Really enjoy that line of thought and I and I agree a lot with what you're saying and I think I I want to elaborate on that a little bit more in the topic that's GonNa GonNa be discussed in the podcast but before get into the topic still addressing last week's Cohen. I think a common question. That arises is what is the use of just. I sitting in silent meditation. When there's so much suffering in the world questions such as this seemed to challenge the kind of passiveness that seems calming thing common among Buddhist practitioners? It's true there is a lot of suffering in the world. There are humans animals and plants and the entire planet itself seemed seemed to be suffering and it's a valid question to consider what we as individuals should or could be doing. Should I be vocal. Should I be protesting. Should I be implementing changes in how I live. I think these are all great things to think about and for me this Cohen. Like all the the other Cohen's it's meant to pause my habitual thought patterns and it brings awareness to the importance of the question even more so than the answer. How can I see a world that is separate from myself? How could it be that? I've been perceiving myself as separate from the world. Could I be more skillful and beneficial in my relationship to the world. If I understand deeply that there really is no separation between myself in the world What if there is no world out there that even needs saving? Perhaps it is only in every moment and every action that I'm actually doing something about how the the world is and about how I am. When and how are my actions going to be more helpful than they are less helpful and thus in the exploration one of the questions? I find that I start changing my actions and happens to be more relevant to have explored the question than it was to have have discovered the answer. I like to think of this Cohen along those lines for every aspect of how I interact with this world that I'm actually actually not really even separate from those are some of the thoughts I wanted to share about last week's Zenko on that's a fun one to think about. What do you call the world old? What do you call yourself fascinating things to think about? Thank you to Dan. Stefan and everyone else also participated in the discussion on the Patriot community. And I hope that you had the chance to entertain some of these thoughts yourself in your we in the week that you had after listening to the Cohen. So let's jump into the topic that I wanted to share today the topic of noble silence which I think is very fitting given the fact that today a is a body day in many parts of the world. Now I have to admit I consider doing a thirty minute episode. That was just silence. Silence is going to be called noble silence and then it was going to be an entire episode of silence just to see if anyone would get the joke but then I realized noble silence isn't just about silence. It's about what words if any are going to be used and I think the more skillful was to talk about noble silence rather than to just sit this silently. So let's talk about noble silence an episode one hundred seven. I shared the Cohen of the pupils. And and if you'll recall the pupils of Tendai School used to study meditation before Zan entered Japan and four of them who were intimate friends ends. Promised one another to observe seven days of silence on the first day. All of them were silent. Meditation had begun auspiciously but when the night came and the oil oil lamps were growing dim. One of the People's could not help exclaiming to a servant fix those lamps. The second people were surprised to hear the first one talk. We're not supposed to say a word. He remarked you two are stupid said the third. Why did you talk? I'm the only one who has not talked concluded the the fourth and that ends the co on but I like to imagine that perhaps there was a fifth student that was totally overlooked because of noble silence. He wasn't in the CO on because he didn't say anything. I like to imagine that I don't know if there really was a fifth one but it's a fun thought so what is noble silence silence. Noble silence is a term attributed to the Buddha for his response to certain questions about reality when it came to the big unanswerable trouble questions. The Buddha was notably silent and the Buddha's understanding of interdependence what we sometimes call dependent origination. where the idea that all things have causes and conditions I think provided him with a framework to the able to analyze reality into basis understanding ending of things on direct experience rather than on metaphysical assumptions so his silence regarding certain topics was not an instance of biting his tongue or forcing himself to stay quiet? I think that silence started in his mind. There was no need to answer something that he didn't seem even spend time thinking about. It was an exercise in skillful means. What was the point of spending time thinking about much less answering the unanswerable? Certain things when there were more pressing things to think about like suffering on the causes of suffering in fact this is where the parable of the poisoned Arrow comes from a monk was so troubled by the fact that the Buddha was remaining silent regarding some big existential unanswerable questions and the Buddha. Finally we spoke and said it's just as a man were wounded with an Arrow thickly smeared with poison his friends and companions kinsmen and relatives would provide him with with a surgeon and the man would say I won't have this Arrow removed until I know whether the man who wounded me was a noble warrior. A priest merchant or a worker. You're he would say I won't have this Arrow removed until I know the given name and clan name of the man who wounded me until I know whether he was tall medium or short it until I know whether he was dark red brown or golden coloured until I know his home village town or city until I know whether the bow with which I was. Wounded wounded was a long bow or a crossbow. Until I know whether the bow string with which I was wounded was fiber bamboo thread sinew hem or bark until so I know whether the shaft with which was wounded was wild or cultivated until I know whether the feathers of the shaft which was wounded were those of a vulture a stork work a hawk a peacock or another bird until I know whether the shaft which I was wounded was bound with the sinew of an ox a water buffalo alangir or a monkey. He would say I won't have this Arrow removed until I know whether the shaft with which I was wounded was that of a common Arrow a curved Arrow a barbed barbed or calf tooth or an oleander. Aero the man would die and those things would still remain unknown to him in this case. Noble silence wasn't in just the lack of words quite opposite it was the use of words that strengthened the case for remaining remaining silent about the original question or for not answering that original question. I think sometimes we think of silence as an outside state but the Buddhist view is one of silenced. The happens on the inside and it starts in the mind and permeates through our words and our actions in Buddhism the concept of noble generally refers to someone who has accomplished the unification of their thoughts words and actions so in this case while silence would seemed to apply only two words in Buddhism. Noble silence has also the silence of thoughts and actions. The Buddha didn't seem to wrestle with with mentally entertaining these unanswerable questions and while some might think he didn't answer because he didn't have an answer good enough to give. I would argue that. He didn't answer because of the question. Itself was entirely unskillful in the first place so his mind never even entertained the question as I mentioned before I want to be clear. In communicating that noble silence is not about being silent for the sake of being silent. The early disciples. The Buddha. Were tasked to communicate the Dharma teachings and the primary purpose of the Buddha's teachings pertain to understanding suffering and and the cessation of the causes of suffering and when the Dharma teachers were not able to accomplish these goals in their discussions they were encouraged to pursue noble noble silence. And I'm sure we've all experienced a similar instance where we're trying to communicate something and we reach a point in that conversation where where what we're saying or what we're doing is no longer beneficial towards what we were trying to communicate. And in those instances we can probably ask ourselves are my words. It's going to be an improvement or would it be skillful. Perhaps to refrain from speaking about this topic. and and perhaps we'll conclude that in such instances we can practice noble silence so I want to talk about noble silence a little bit in the context of how do we actually the practice it would you remember. Noble silence does not mean that. We're not allowed to talk. So we're not forcing ourselves to sit there in silence. It means is that we don't have to talk and we realized that we don't have to talk. We get to make the decision. Is it skillful at this. Point to refrain from talking. There's no no obligation to talk during that period of time that you're practicing also silence becomes noble when it's an inner silence rather than just John Outer silence so we're striving to practice having a mind. That is calm and at ease and I find it easy to practice this when we're out in nature nature in fact recently in Nepal while we were doing the track There would be multiple instances during the track where noble silence. This was being practiced albeit unintentionally. We didn't necessarily deliberately plan that when you're walking for hours upon hours taking step after step climbing a mountain for example it becomes easy to settle into the state of noble silence where you are externally finally silent but it's happening because you are internally silent as well. I'm only focused on my steps one step at a time whereas my foot Guinness Step. What does it feel like as I step is this rock? Solid is going to wobble on me. And and in this practice of of walking silently in practicing noble silence you start to ponder things like the sound of nature the sound of the wind blowing in the trees or the birds the sound of the other trekkers and their steps are perhaps they're they're Chit Chat and the conversations going on and in those moments you're enjoying the the experience just as it is and suddenly you have the censor this feeling that your voice your whatever you're you're going to add to the experience isn't necessary it doesn't add anything to the experience and that was fun. I got to experience that on multiple instances where there there is nothing that I could add to it. Nothing that needed to be added to it and in that moment I was able to practice noble silence just enjoying at the moment as it was enjoying the fact that my mind was eased. Doing the one thing that it's doing in this case step after step after step. And I I like to practice this in in other instances to like when I hear the sound of a bell and we encountered a lot of singing bowls. Meditation Bells that people sell in the Paul. And you'll be hiking and arrive at a camp and there might be someone they're selling bulls her singing bowls and we would go out and we would listen to them and they they would do. The sounds in those instances instances that are really fun to be able to just enjoy the sound. Let it be what it is and in those moments recognize. There's nothing I can add to that you know all the bells making it sound. What's the point of me seeing along with it? I'm just GONNA listen to it and allow it to to make right now and we can practice that in other. For instance is it doesn't have to be singing bowls in pollock can be the sound of the chime on your phone or in traffic. It can be the sound of a of a car car honking. Any external sound can be an opportunity to practice noble silence in these moments. We focus entirely early on the sound that we are hearing and we focus in internally on our breath and and the feeling of the air moving in and out and the awareness we are bringing to that specific moment in time and the recognition that there's nothing that we need to add to that moment the moment is perfectly we find just as it. Is We recognize that for that specific moment. Not only our words but our thoughts in our actions are also at ease because because there's no need to add to the experience by adding our voice to it. We can practice this while sitting meditation on a cushion but we can also practice this while walking being on a hike in nature or it could be while doing the dishes or so many other things. It's really a matter of making peanut deliberate practice and you can tell yourself. I'm going to practice this every time I sit on the cushion at meditation or I can practice this every time. I'm going to wash the dishes or you pick something right. Every time I wash my car or every time I walk out to the mailbox to check the mailbox for male. That's that's a moment that I'm going to practice noble silence. I'm going to experience the moment as it is taken all the sights and sounds and I'm not going to add to it. There's nothing you can say that needs to be added to what I'm experiencing in that moment and you make it a practice around whatever circumstances are ideal for you. Whatever you choose to do? And that's how we practice noble silence. At least that's one way to practice it now. Some of the benefits noble silence. I've noticed in my own practice this that when my mind is common peaceful my words and my actions also tend to be calm and peaceful when practiced skillfully our outer utter silence can often become an inner silence and it becomes very foundation for an A. for understanding what's happening inside of us this stillness becomes the essence of being present and becoming better. Whatever we already are? I've also noticed that through practicing using noble silence. I tend to pay more attention to the words that I'm going to use when I'm going to use them. And perhaps more importantly to the thoughts that arise as they arise and this introspection enables us to essentially practice right speech or skillful communication says one of the spokes on the eightfold path. Half so here by practising noble silence. In a way were actually practicing right speech our words have a way of influencing the world around us whether we want to or not they affect real people and often they affect the people that we love. The most our words can be the causes isn't conditions of our own suffering and the suffering that arises and others and our words can also end up being very positive influential things they can put a smile on someone's face can bring a sense of joy and happiness or contentment to someone but unfortunately at times they act as Eros rose that we shoot out of our mouths that intentionally or unintentionally inflict pain and comfort both to ourselves and to others and I like to. I think that noble silence can be the practice that refines the use of our words and our ability to communicate skillfully with others and with ourselves loves all by simply practicing at times to be silent unto to practice noble silence both in terms of our thoughts and our words words and our actions. So that's what I wanted to discuss in terms of the concept of noble silence for today. And that's all I have for this podcast the episode. It's Bodet here at least while I'm recording. This and hopefully still is for some of you as you. I listened to this episode again. I want to thank you you for being a part of this journey with me if you WANNA support the work. I'm doing with the PODCAST. Consider becoming a patron joining our online community. Where we discuss the podcast episodes where we discussed these Cohen's and there's even a weekly study group there you can learn more about all this by visiting the online communities section of on secular Buddhism Dot Com as always. If you've enjoyed this podcast episode please share it with others. Write a review give it a rating tonight tunes. And that's all I have regarding this specific podcast episode. I look forward to recording another episode soon but before I go here is your Zenko on to work with for this week. So the title of this Co on is the moon cannot be stolen. And here's the Cohen RECON. Zen Master lived the simplest kind of life in a little hut at the foot of a mountain. One evening a thief visited the hut not only to discover that there was nothing to steal rail Khan returned caught him. You have come a long way to visit me. He told the prowler. Then you should not return turn empty-handed please take my clothes as a gift. The thief was bewildered. He took the clothes and slunk away. Real con sat naked watching watching the moon or fellow amused. I wish I could have given him this beautiful moon. That's all I have this time until next time

Cohen Buddha Stefan Shoeshine Dan Japan Patriot community Houston Noah Rochetta Bodey Day Xu Shang Reiko Zenko president Morais Shin Sibley Khan Tendai School John Outer Nepal
My Brother, My Donor

If These Ovaries Could Talk

52:20 min | 8 months ago

My Brother, My Donor

"Welcome to if these ovaries could talk. I'm gene I'm Robin where you're sure Beijing. A I am a lesbian so we need to tell our stories not your nuclear family anymore. Such as Your Mama. Were not learning here. We are again. It's like groundhog's Day in our life groundhog's Day in this podcast is just all just keeps coming. We're still in this pandemic or still all in our case you're wondering basis not contacting not touching not contacting each of making contact not making physical contact and it's groundhog's Day so hope you're enjoying your day earnings going great. Finally there's ups and downs like I'll have a good day like yesterday was a good day or got out side. We did like a six foot social distancing at someone's house and rules nice to sit in a chair outside but then today I feel like that that was my downs. Yeah my yesterday and had to drive. Were were like three and a half hours away and she had to drive back because he couldn't fit everything in the car so she took like moved again. Everybody another temporary house. We're in the country date where even further away like. We are in the cone tree. There's cows everywhere where I grew up in. Well I think you a lot. There are a lot of trump signs. No Yeah why not you? A lot of a lot of like tracker stores yet. We used to be like like you'd be on the two lane road going somewhere and and in stock you'd be stuck while had attractor going ten miles an hour before he could. You had to wait for your moment pass Yeah that happened to me yesterday so yesterday and had to drive back so she took six. It took like six or seven hours. She left at the crack of dawn. That but like it's so funny because like when you think about being alone with your kids now during the pandemic you're like no known who I need to. I don't WanNa be alone. What did you take one with you? I we definitely had that conversation. Definitely had that covers God that yeah but it was turned out okay. It was just a really long day so well on a right turn. Next week is the beginning of pride. Yeah Woo Gaming. It's not gonna be what it usually is. We're not gonNA have our parades. We're not gonNA have all our boozy brunches. We're not GONNA have all our family picnics. So that's a little bit of a bummer. But Jamie and I had an idea that came up on one of our. Our live streams. I actually don't think it was our idea. Did we still one of the people who was watched our livestream? Probably the people which by the way if you want to see our live streams Wednesdays and Fridays on facebook but any who somebody had an idea that was better than our ideas to make videos of how your family celebrates pride and we want you to make a video make it fun. Make it funny to you and send it to us and we're GONNA share it on her social media. Yeah yeah somebody else also had an idea of like decorating t shirts. And if you're one of those folks who has extra t shirts that's how you're gonNA celebrate cried like whatever you're going to do film and video and send it to us over talk at gmail.com. Keep them under a minute. Folks if he can she goes there she goes. I am and forever will be a producer. I love it I love it. Well I don't want a fantastic video that we can't put up because it's too long and because Lord knows I don't have time to edit it sakes all right and if about producer Robin okay. Produce around his set aside we have a new patriae on member. We wouldn't young immunity Jesse E C E C. I mean I don't think it's last name I think it's just like hush filled it out on the but it's cool. It's like her hop name. It's like ucse just as easily well. We're so excited. She's joined our community. Love you say just. Ec thank you but on that no we do have something a little more. It's not serious kind of serious. It's going to call it our public service announcement or whatever you guys at home might have noticed that we have fewer ads than before because basically covid nineteen has changed things. Fewer companies are able to advertise right now so they've been pulling ads which true which is is not great for us. The truth of the matter is the ADS. They basically just helped us. Keep this podcast running. We've never really made any revenue from this podcast. You might not know that we're still in. The red is on the red so we really really really low. Making this podcast. We need to stop. We want to keep these stories going forever because it's important than the stories are important. They are they're really important. And you've you've spoken to us and told us how much you enjoy them so we wanNA keep it going. We want to keep going so much. So that rob even quit her day job. I sure did when that seemed like a much better idea before before cove it. Yeah so you know and we're just trying to make ends meet. We've had so many successes with this. Podcast we won the people's choice. Podcast award we are a Webby honoree. We interviewed Rosie O'Donnell Stacey Anchin Senators Zach walls. We have sponsors like me. The home for testing kit. We have popular livestream now. We're going to book Jamie a book. That's coming out like so many wonderful wonderful things but yet still we really are not make any money. We're not making any money. And the ADS are slowing down. Which is which is a little scary for us and we. We don't want to stop. We know you love these stories. We want to continue making them. And that's why we created our Patriot on community for those of you. Who Don't know exactly what Patriot on is a platform for artists to get assistance in funding from the people who love the art. That's created and like we just have to say this is not an easy conversation for either of us to to do you know when we started a patriot. We really we went back and forth about like. Are we asking for money or we and but you know we just? We came to the conclusion that was just. We couldn't fund it all by ourselves without without help from people not now at least and so. We're kind of looking at this whole conversation that we're having right now like when you're listening to your NPR shows and every so often they come in and they're like hey it's a fundraising time because they need that money to cover their costs to keep content. Coming to folks. This is your friendly public service announcement or whatever so so. Here's what you can get when you join our Patriot community so for two dollars a month we call that our sperm donor level. Because we're finding that you're GonNa get love and gratitude comes straight from our ovaries to whatever parts got and a shoutout in an episode. So you hear US mention like we just mentioned Jesse. She's she's become a new member. She gets her out. So you get that for the two dollar a month Levin than for five dollars a month which we call the egg donor level all the benefits of the lower tiers. Plus you're going to get access to exclusive content so we ask a guest an additional question or they send us a story that they wanted to share or sometimes it's outtakes. Sometimes we'll do polls were. We'll ask if we have you know. What famous person would you WANNA hear You're going to get a handwritten. Thank you card with an if these ovaries guitar sticker. That's going to be tucked neatly inside sometimes more than one sticker. Just say time you'll rogin like send you a couple of stickers that's such a five dollar and then for fifteen dollars a month which we call our station carrier level AK angels you get all the benefits of the lower tiers plus on edited commercial. Free video of some of the interviews a social media. Shout out of your choice and you get to vote on show topics once they've been narrowed down and you get a free if these overs could talk t shirt or Mug after six months of being patriotic on member. Those very exciting to t shirts mugs are pretty awesome. And we have one last final crazy level that you know if you can do this like Godspeed. So this is our fifty dollar a month fertility doctor level and for this. You'RE GONNA get more love than you would ever feel comfortable accepting from Jamie and Robyn and that is really true so you're GonNa get all the benefits lower tiers. You're starting to get a sense of this team but you're also going to get to be on and if these overstocked episode talking about a topic of your choice now provided it's not illegal and that's it After three months and also our book comes out on September. Twenty second after four months. You're going to get an autographed copy of our book. One of those people that can can jump in at that level. This big perks. Yeah but we also know that is that times are tough and if you have nothing extra to give we totally that too and we are still going to continue making content for you free of charge as long as we can continue to. That's why we started this in the first place. Our stories need to be told. And we're doing it. Yeah Yeah we don't want you to feel like some crazy pressure from us. We just want you to know that it's out here. We could use the help and if you can consider joining our Patriot community. That would be lovely yet. If you have any ideas of extra things that you would like at the levels. Please let us know about that. We're open to everything. We don't want to stop you guys. We don't robin have to go back to work. We want Jamie to be able to help. Robin Moore these are good things. Yes and we'd love you on. We just want this good thing to keep going so if you can give please give and enough about our our our dry over. We're getting ready the episode to thank you. Thank you all right. We're talking to the mkx Dinger's numerous inquiries the best made up last name. Ever the MKX. Dinger's I mean that's a fun one it is. I mean my friends is the frenzied. Ito's that's cool too. That's a fun one. Yeah that sounds like a wine. That's what they're like. Finally they are. Well I was thinking more like box wine but that's okay but I have to see. I was excited for this interview. Because it's something that our listeners told us they wanted to hear. They wanted to hear about a partner who uses the other partners sibling as a donor to create their child's. And so enter the mkx. Dinger's hell n roll the tape. Palais but your cigarette down. Put your here late in L. Impera herring can't hear US hear us. I'll roll the tape frigging helen many. We have more and Corey cast so more at emailed US her story and was like I got a story for you guys and we were like. Yeah you do. We need to bring you in so you guys are coming in from Boston here. Go just outside the city. You have your thirty second elevator pitch. Are you ready ready? You're ready now. Okay who are you guys on your mark get set go rear the MIC dinners? We made up our last name. Because our maiden name's hyphenated would offend too long to put on the back of a Hockey Jersey. Our family consists of two moms. When kid and a dog cory is the emotional stabiliser peacekeeper of the family the listening and the planner and the taskmaster and Brogan. Our five year old is the adventure the artist in the imagination. She is an only child but she has six invisible siblings as well as invisible pet cat. Ooh Blue. It's like you practice that. That's our first scripted thirty-second meantime listener for some collar. She's ready you were like. I gotta get my thirty seconds. I had to get violently script out by my goodness well. We're so happy to have you here. We're so happy that you wrote in that we could bring you in because that's what we do really exciting to be heard of this story. All right we'll let before we started. They said that Moore listened to every episode. Corey was like Not so much. What if we won? She's like I'm up to speed. I got sensor. Listen to at least one. So that's good so you made. This is like my dream to make up our name. I think about it all the time. Like maybe we should make up our last name. But then I'm too attached to my name and then I think oh no that would be where it so talk about that. I'm so intrigued by it. Yeah when we were just even just dating before we were married. One of her friends started referring to us as the Nick Dinner. So magazines McCarthy Waldinger as sort of a joke but it was funny. We liked it. Yeah I stuck with it. If it's fun and got married. We thought about changing and held off and then I think after like a year of being married we changed facebook just to like tested out to see like. Is this real? Could this work. And then we finally legally changed it when our daughter was born which was five years after we got married so yeah. It was a gradual process. We ought to have the same name. We decided we agreed on that. From the beginning I like no doubt people dimsum have their father's name their mother's name or one parents named the other parents name. I get that so cool. I didn't think it would matter to me that we all have the same name. We don't we our kids names are hyphenated and we each have our own last name and I think how cool would it be for us all have the same name and I think my kids would love it? And the every lesbian couple has a hyphenated name that they're lesbian friends have made for them like. We're the CAL woods for the health of US do it. So the unique thing that has lgbtq plus couples can do. Did you feel a loss for either of your names like when you gave I need would but I think I think make dinners cooler like it took away a lot of McCarthy's in the world that I'm not related to and there's a lot better related to use those like you know what that means? Good like can move on from it. It'll go on it to go out for me to change my name. Professionally sounded a little silly but my other name welding. Her sounds justice silly as So it's the IT. Let's be honest. It's the dinger excelling. So it's like you're bringing the with you Shawn Sturgeon or you brought the Dinger. How did your family's take it though? Either of them would tell us if they didn't like it. They don't talk about this. That means you have a nice fan laid on top of things that picture. That sounds very waspy. Be IRA yet. It's very Boston. So let's talk about the creation of your family. Let's get into that though. Corey carried Brogan and we used a known donor and my brother was the donor. Lale love this. You guys are a little bit like unicorns in our lesbian world. Because it's like something that people talk about doing but not many people actually do so. We've talked to one other couple. Who used a brother? But that's it no to richy. Jackson used his eight sisters egg and then we talked to kids but what we did find though is when we talked to the the two kids whose moms did that a lot more people came out of the woodwork than I thought. I thought it was really rare but a lot of people on our social said that they had done it and I thought that was interesting. We'll tell us about how did that go? How did you decide which cool? Yeah as you're saying right it was it's kind of part of like the lesbian vision in a way right when again even before we were married and really seriously talking about kids we about like this would be a great way to have a family and you have a brother. I have brother meeting. This could work out of you. Know having donors in our family and then when the time came it just stuck with us that idea so when we started really more seriously thinking about starting a family we decided to ask. My brother occurs a little older than me so the delicious when we're adding to. Yeah I'm the decision of who was carried. Who would carry was kind of me? By Age ended zero. We're we're excited to you and this the my brothers for years younger than I am. And this was five years ago six years ago he was. What like twenty six when yeah and it all becomes great in terms of stage of life like single guy living in Colorado. Yeah so like I. Distinctly remember calling him up as parked in my car lake on the way to work or something like so where Starting a family. And we're wondering if you'll be the donor you don't need to answer this question. Now you can take some time to think about it and just kind of putting it out to whom like that. And he was like well. What does that involve? And we're like well you would need to a sperm and duty to sign a paper saying that will never never look for anything from you. Financially and pretty much thought the parental rights as a cat stuff. And he's like that sounds. That sounds great. I want to be actually or who actually responsible. So he thought about it and he agreed to do it. How long did he think about it? Was it pretty quickly. I think it was like we've been a week. Yeah it was. It was a quick turnaround. Does he want kids of his own? Ever unclear. He really seems to live day to day. I was GONNA say he's still scheming. Colorado he's actually not but that is sort of the picture as painting by doing the Boulder thing actually ski that much as this out in nature out among the trees. So what was there? Anyone in your family. Did Anybody Express any concerns or did anyone in your community. Say anything about it or was everybody like. That's so cool. Like what was the reaction throughout our whole relationship? I feel like our family's reaction has been like certainly supportive and with an understanding of like you're doing your thing that's right for you like when we were wedding. Planning none of our parents were especially like heavy in the like. This is what it should look like same with same with family building a they went along with it and like protest. You'RE NOT SUPPORT. Yam Get involved and we definitely talk to our parents about it and I don't. I don't know if they had any like really probing questions you know more Flaka. Well how will this? How will this work? What will this look to that? We'll figure that out but yeah I mean this kind of having our vision and I guess just sharing that like this is how we WANNA make our family. And this is what feels more comfortable to us than going through banking anonymous donor ruling. That whole options seemed far more confusing for us. Even so many couples do it gets not big deal. I think a lot of people do it because of the the cutoff. Yeah you know meaning you by using your credit card and then you never hear from that person again unless your kids decide to like. It's it's it's a fine line. I think that's why a lot of people get different boundary and it's easy. Yeah Yeah Yeah I chose it also just because it seemed like the easiest option for me because that's the way that everybody I knew went. You know yeah I didn't have a brother so there's that to my wife and that wasn't happy also assuming that is just really both like your brothers a lot so Saami would hoax is. Yeah okay. Well that's great. And he said yes so then so then what happens. How does that? How do so? There's a couple of different ways that you can do it and will we started out to like. We were the first of our queer friends to have kids so we didn't really have friends to go to to be like How're you doing this? But Fenway health which is a LGBT Care Organization. They put on a program. They call it the alternative program Info sessions like we went to that we connected with the woman who is a social worker. Who kind of like talks with couples through Okay as a little bit but as yet important. Yeah the logistical stuff. Yeah Yeah because you guys I mean the having the donor is very easy. Because he's you know him so well but then all all the other things you have to set in place in order to do this route is something that it's nice to have guidance on I would imagine. Yeah yes so. We had to be in touch with the lawyer. Learn a little bit more about what we needed to do in terms of a donor contract and even just even talked to her about lace. How do we get sperm? Get it into a social worker. You had to do it at home to avoid a quarantine right or did you quarantine the sperm. And then do it in a way. Did it at home. Yeah so Turkey. Baster method without. Yeah it's Metal we call it to every or hall doing air quotes here so we were tracking ovulation Body temperature and whatever APP. We're using the time. Got You still figuring out when she was ovulating and then planned a trip out to Colorado. You went to hand him. The first time I mean it was march. She had time off from work time off from work. We made a little vacation out of it as you do. Yeah Yeah and of course. It was like the one month out of like the prior six. Were like you're the cycle. Is WE MISS? Not Somehow that wouldn't work ended our trip by today's thinking like Try This Day. It's so when you do it. You're there he. You're you're altogether and basically he would just go in a room do the thing bring it out. We were at a Ben. Vist we lamps Sean comfortable over. He went in lifted. The Cup bathroom Anyway but it's how you have to do it to make a baby in. It's beautiful new. I guess for some reason. I'm picturing bringing it over in a bag. It's there's something about him being in the space that I got. I don't know but it's like you left your brother doing stuff while you're in another room. Feels Weird for me. Life's creation here. We go miraculously reflecting back on it but talking about is can address. These are the things do the things we lgbt things. We do. Go through to our children. Yeah very intentional. How did you know you missed your window from the Checker thingy not something more technical than like like Blinky Smiley face? And then it's solid smiley. Face never did an ovulation chequered. So did yeah just wasn't the ideal day or something we still. You're never getting this. That might were it right now. We know that time didn't then there to other. How many tries did you do like because you're there? Could you've like when we each attor cycle? Yeah like when you were out there. Did you three times twice. I mean that's what a lot of doctors office do two different days. Yeah I feel like I would have been like. Let's just do it every day. I'm here why not I would've like maximize my flight my files but I don't know if that would even make Dr. We're not doctors. We don't know what we're talking about. Okay so the first time unfortunately didn't work and so then what happened been. We flew him out in April. You brought him to you. We don't these trueblue points. It was pretty good at but if you think about it though how much sperber yeah. That's the same cost is less. Actually Leslie thank you and then the third time we tried. That's when we're getting to the point of Lake. Is this working? Do we need to think of like another way of doing this or another intervention and started to look at the options if you have a known donor. A lot of banks have a new donor program. But that's the one that requires firm to be quarantined. Just for clarity known donor program you basically he would send his sperm to the clinic and they do all the stuff that needs to be done to it and check it and it has to be a six month quarantine. Yeah if you use any kind. A medical intervention Do but at this point. You didn't have him go check swimmers or anything it was just. We're GONNA use it. He went to planned parenthood to get as TV. Panel so Planned parenthood helped with our conception go. Yeah and of course like at that point right when you're ready to go the idea of a six month quarantine feels like forever. Yeah it was expensive in be like where we were at that point lake while because I was the one is blocked a lot of their experiences. Out Spreadsheets spreadsheets. So yeah because I could see. I could see if it were me. I'd be worried like are we doing this? Right are we. Because it's like you're at home in. You're just putting it in there with a Turkey baster. It's got feel weird her syringe. That bad as it was yes you do remember that. I work Yeah yes divert. That's amazing so you're pregnant. You got all your paperwork in place. The other piece was after Brogan was born. He had to sign away waiver of parental rights at that time as well and it's for the second doctrine from the Dutch. Were you ever worried that he would all of a sudden decide? Wait a second. Maybe I want to be rental. Really Weird okay. You're not apparent. Did you talk about like we're going to call you uncle? They're going to call you donor like did you talk about all that stuff before he did was just like. You'll be uncle Brian. That's what the relationship will be and I think he's about that too. I wanted to be an uncle. He I was worried about him like changing his mind about parental rights than it was about changing his mind about you know getting flown out to go through what we are. Trying to nation process every evaporated like he was getting a little like when we told them he was pregnant. Who's offend God? You know I guess you think is GonNa happen right away now. It's starting to be a whole. You know he'd he wasn't ready to be on board with the whole process of how long it could possibly take exactly you don't think about that as a sperm donor. I suppose. I don't think anybody thinks about that. You think it's going to happen right away. Most of the dial. Luckily it happened relatively quickly for you. So you get pregnant. How how the pregnancy go has ever member. It was great and then morning sickness. I think I felt nauseous. In Lake Food cravings the first trimester peanut butter and jelly sandwiches in cereal in like salad and coffee seemed like the worst thing ever I. Eight zero like it was my job back when I was pregnant. That's all eight. Remember we went to a family. Friends wedding leaks the day of the first day of the second trimester sudden food tasted good again. Remember that the hearing this. It's where it academically. I wanted to talk about this all the time but in early have been audience I don't remember what it is that I wanted to talk about. Yeah that's what happens though after once. You have the baby everything. Is Everything before baby. Forgotten life before building before baby feel so critical and so like you just don't know how any of it's ever going to work and then afterward like when you talk to someone who's trying now you're the only about you'RE GONNA get in. It's fine it's the other stuff you gotta worry about once. Fbi becomes was he there for the birth. You guys answer. I just WanNa meet him now. I know we should. We should get him to. We should get like a voice memo from him like why would he do that? And you only know that he sounds like he's so laid back in like yeah. Sure I'll do that so I really I can't wait to hear his voice More me kind of out of the blue and was like hey we want to have a kid. We need a donor. Will you do that? And my initial reaction was. That's the weirdest question I've ever heard in my life and my second reaction was like. Of course Mr Newsouth was something very important. This is be very easy for me. Yeah of course but then I also want to take a couple of days to think about it because my brain was swimming. Because that's a weird request so I talked to a couple of friends and some family about it am a couple of people actually tried to talk me out of it. They were like. Oh but what if you feel like? You're their dad. And you feel as connection. You have this kid that. You can't see your razor. Whatever items like what I don't know like I'll cross that bridge if I get there. I guess that I don't know if that's really stick to me as a very good reason to not do it so I took a couple of days at my head around it and was like okay. This is weird but it's been important things I'm going to do it. And then the process itself. I don't remember too much about it. I just remembered killings of planned. Parenthood like getting tested. Making sure everything's. Okay and then more in Corey came out to Colorado. I go into the bathroom. Get A cap. Take CARE OF BUSINESS. Give it to them. Let them do their thing. Apparently I also flew out to Boston for twos two more times. I don't even remember that part and basically now all people ask me now like weird having a biological child. That's not yours and I'm like yeah not really like sometimes I'll look Brogan get a little bit of like that's that's like half my DNA in there. Okay and like this is in the back of my mind but there's no like real. I don't know it doesn't. It doesn't seem to different. I don't really have anything else compared to because I don't have any kids or any other nieces or nephews but I mean. Nfl See Brogan thanks. She's like the best team in the world and get very protective of her when I see her and think about it. But is that any different than like if I had another niece or nephew. That wasn't biologically related to me. I don't know so I I don't know I. I just assume it's about normal. I haven't told too many people about it at first I kept kind of quiet just because I don't know has kind of my nature anyway but I told a couple of friends about it and at this point of started telling more people usually use it like if I'm just sitting around with a group of friends or playing some kind of game like two truths and a you're like everyone shares. Something that people don't know you. I'll be like hey guess what I got a biological kid and people will be like what and then I tell them a story and I generally like. Oh that's very cool and I'm just like yeah I mean to me it's I again. It comes back to like my sister. Needed help was important so I did it and I kind of feel like most people wouldn't that situation never struck me as being all that different. I guess let I feel like most people do anyway and now. I'm kind of rambling. Someone's going to go by. I guess it was a year ago. Rachel started asking babies reporting here. We go so you know the the tried and true. Lgbtq recommendations of Zach Safari and what makes a baby and baby just kind of breaks everything down into some people have uteruses and eggs and some people have firm and an egg and a sperm you to get together in. So that's what? She learned his how babies are made. I have the what makes a baby book? I don't have the safari but that safari. So he takes everyone on a tour of his family and he has two moms and they used as burbank donor. Says it must've been an awesome guy who donated genes. That made up your something. It's cute And broken nose. That is a donor and she knows that it's uncle Brian. She doesn't ask spoken very openly about it with people in. She is always around and she. She's a spun. She does thinks up on everything so she's definitely hurt us. Say Oh my brother. Brian is the door and she still figuring out what that means in different ways but she still Yanni because she got really into that. What makes a baby book and sometimes you just like out of the blue. We like a MICA plead eight. I played with a kid. Recruit school. Appearance should read with their kids. That's amazing that's a starring in the backwards to write your own story. And she's bashing Murray index fire super creative unlike always telling stories. It's kind of thing so instead of telling her own story about her though she just wanted to write a story so she dictated story to me that I wrote that. He's like yeah. No I'm not using it for the donor takes down the ACLU everyday conversation. That's amazing. Do you disclosed this to everybody in your life. Like for instance we let everybody know yes they have an anonymous donor from a sperm bank. How much of your story do you disclose you others in your life other than on a podcast? That goes debts it. We're I mean we're pretty open about it like I'm trying to think of a new friend. We made new friends when Grogan. Yeah kind of getting into school communities and I think most to love of preschool. He blogs crowd of people. Just start hearing industry. No they know like what what to do with her on father's Day right another. We started late father's Day with my brother like snippet. It's like you're the men in her life that she can make things for. If this is the direction of craft is going grandfather grandfather bogeyed yet is like. Oh my gosh. She looks just like you to be relied on volume related. Yeah so it kind of it as or explain that So right and even think true. Yeah and then when we make new friends like we do think it's an essential part of the story and it just like cuts barriers right away. Right who carry? We'll find out if this friendship lasts. Once we lay out all the request real quick making. That's the way to be you know. That's that's what we hear from all the experts that we talked to on the PODCASTS. Were not experts but whatever everybody says the open be open from the start you know everywhere and let people deal with it. The way they're going to deal with it won't also your Kids GonNa pick up on how you feel about it. So if there's any internal ashamed they're going to pick up on a new tour so dislike this time. So he's going to be like this is amazing. It's great I love that. You both can see yourself in her physically amazing cool to look at old pictures and be like. Oh that looks like you got right. Especially when she was just worn in like. You're that completely enamored baby phase in like looking at her and being like you look like everybody. I have ever known in loved like but more. Were you planning on carrying as well so we had originally thought to kids and after we had one? It's weird that right after you have a baby. People are immediately. Like when's the next one coming? Why we were being of enamored like we were enamored. That's not talked about family planning spilling this is what we've got right now and it lasted a while longer than evens. Thought we decide not to think about another one. Yeah she's born in two thousand fifteen and right like it takes a lot of planning to get the and Salmon even planning what you're doing with the first one getting used to being apparently Africa was used to be. It's just eighteen months old like it was like. Yeah long running. Yeah so we said. We're not gonNA talk about making having another kid until dozens of gene Off Limits conversation made us feel good and totally on. We're both totally on the other. That or just kinda like yeah of course recruits and then that you're Kinda came pass and then eighteen. We're like Need to figure out for doing this for doing it. We need to do it and if we're not. We need to be intentional about that decision. And not just like. Oh forget to think about making a baby until it's too late so we spent some time at the end of that year in the beginning. Two Thousand Nineteen thinking about. Are we going to expand our family? And Are we going to have a Kid? And who will carry you? Know works well for time we also both really like both really liked our rules roles like I was a good partner to a pregnant person and she was a good person out and my brother was willing to be donor again. And we again like just trying to figure out. All of our options we also shop to quarries rather yup just to see kind of where he stood with things so he's in a completely so my brother right like five years leader similar stage of life like traveling. Single Jill. Corey's brother is in a very different stage of life. He has two kids is. Divorced IS PRACTICALLY ENGAGE. Now they are getting married but just a whole lot of other factors to consider any also lives like forty minutes away from us. Oh He's local to us. We do a lot of Lake receives together on holidays together and when we talked to him was that a negative or a positive. We talk about whether he was willing to donor. He just had a lot more to wrap his head around. Like what would this mean? He'd hired time. I think separating parenting lake being the biological parent from the experience of Lake. Letting go of yeah I think see right. Yeah you're like it doesn't mean anything. Just give me your stuff. But I wonder if that's because he was already a dad knew that tie and not twenty six forty right. Yeah he really like it was just a very different way of seeing sperm as we see it as like genetic material and uses it as your dinner into Heritage House eliminating us. Yes we saw. Her brother is like. Oh Wow we were really lucky to have that. Her son had that situation man. This long as complicated in Never actually said No. But he didn't say yes we have the right and just yeah because you also already had this lake a knowing of what it could be like when it's just simple and carefree and working right so that's good. Use Your intuition with that. Did you have any loss though more? Then that would mean you weren't going to be able to carry if you were going to do it. Yeah so I I let myself feel it. I let myself experience it. You'RE GONNA laugh. What after deciding that I wasn't going to get pregnant. I scheduled consultation for a breast reduction. Honestly that some big that helps me. You'll better about my decision because that was something that I had put off wanted to always which is a good idea by. Yeah to wait 'til after so that helps you get through it. You Got Tears you. We're GONNA do something for yourself right right. Yeah Yeah and the question of whether or not it would carry was also wrapped up with. Ra going to have another and you have you know we. We talked to my brother. We flew him out. We talk to each other. You know we just we kind of at the time. Wish we could have had the experience of just trying to get pregnant and see what would happen like in a the low stakes way that heterosexual couples do of birth control and immunity. What happens yeah not trying sadly exactly? Yeah and it was. I say that we're not pulling out anymore. I hate it when thanks for that way. Too much detail. Fuckers is around that time when I found your podcast is because I was looking for stories and experiences to be like. How do people make this decision? Like the Friends who were pregnant with their second are trying to get pregnant with your second. Were like how did she knew you wanted to do this. Because were never there of being so committed and so convinced that we wanted to go through you know and then it's like well how far into the process you go break in. We're even like sitting changing into hockey gear. Do you remember at the tournament and relate putting her cores like low talking about our family planning around all these dudes and attend. It was the German okay. We were like okay yet. Really good memories not having this indepth conversation of like I. Don't we try like just train wide suzy? Whenever remember that Yeah. We flip flopped a lot of like. Oh Yeah Oh it's expensive. Only love her family now the way it is like yeah and then Want my brother was traveling. Lots of South America. He had a girl from Columbia. He'd been living in Columbia for a while he could bend to Columbia. He'd gone back in October and he was going in April and because of Zeka. You have to wait three months To to be safe before trying to conceive so members Zeka who that was like one of our biggest pregnant with Lindsey. I was so worried self of mosquito. Yeah now we're afraid of everything but go ahead. Sorry so we had to plan. We're thinking of like Corey's ovulation we're talking grays ovulation again and we're like okay if we try in February and then he banks in March before he goes back to collaborate with rebel banking and that leads. That's when it would have now since I was looking into all of the programs of the no donor programs that itself. It's so interesting and ask for if you do known donor program. It's like several thousand dollars but if a heterosexual couple were to go in and if the mail order bank is firm before he has cancer treatment or whatever. It's like a hundred bucks or something like it's it's such a big difference because donation process has to be so heavily regulated because has to be lasted quarantined yet. Because it's like there's an FDA regulation it says if it's the as giving someone a kidney. I remember that from when Mary and I were considering shoes going to carry my eggs and I was like why I had to take psych avowal. I was like this is my family. It was a crazy talk and they explained it to us it was because of the FDA regulations. I don't understand why just because it's like a heterosexual couple doesn't have to go through all the they don't have to because the tanking it for himself if he's just banking himself he's just saying like maybe he has cancer like a coworker of mine had cancer and before he did radiation he banked his sperm in. It's there's no they don't know where it's going. What if it's straight couple coming in saying we're banking this so that we can put it into my wife. They don't have to go through the wind or testing or anything. So that's and then. There was kind of that loophole of Lake. If my brother were banking at for himself but we wanted to use it they could send it to us. But he would have to send a notarized letter every time we wanted to use it so that the bank would send it and we're just like that's so crazy to cook. I wonder if you could have gotten around that by saying that. He that you cory are his girlfriend. You probably could've we do so fucked. You even have to create different people. That's not as I didn't know this. Yeah Wow I think it's well it in the Research Jack. Nine I had my spreadsheet I have four events am I watching each bang for the brand came out to visit slash possibly donate even before. He came out like every morning. When you took your temperature. The thermometer went off. I was like getting anxious kind of choir doing. Yeah we just decided hey. Isn't it funny how you know? It's the feelings that you get when you're just like you almost like hope it's not true and then you know like you're not doing the right thing. Yeah so then. He came out and hung out and we had like a fun little visit. He played a lot with Brogan. So what is what is her relationship like with your brother. Are they more close than your average uncle and niece or is it just? I think just be who. They are like at their clothes. It's cute but it's not like no one would look at it. Is that her father early like that? That just feels be like. Yeah that's my based on how their personalities near personally pretty well some really great. It's such a great story of a of a nontraditional setup that worked out really well. It's like it's nice to have like we have all these options and I think sometimes people tell horror stories of ones that don't work out and I love when we have stories that are just like interest and you decided to just have one and you're with that. Yeah that's something that a lot. Not many people talk about just the decision and I have a second. We can give you want that. I think it's hard you know. I mean in some ways having one kid. It's like you. You don't Bulletin Planet. A filter anymore like entered the agility. Just aren't a lot of stories of being happy with just one kid like there's a right Stilton of you know we could only get pregnant ones. That are you know right. The assumption is that you wanted more and you couldn't get it and you had to settle exactly and it wasn't settling on. I mean there was definitely a sense of like I think even just right up before the pension to like there's always this like off. It would be nice if she was playing with somebody else. There is always this knowing of like what we're handling everything we can handle with one. This this fits our family so well in this feels complete for us in you know in some ways. There is a sense of loss. There's also a sense of completeness academics pandemic were like you have no way think really good sibling and seeing other people have their little brings and be happy with them. It's cute and she doesn't get enough because of us but I don't feel mournful regretful her boss and this is her life. She knows her life and she. Has You know siblings I mean as you do. That's probably just as girly better. Yea Better and a lot of recovery do when she wants to wait. You know punches biting school precise last spring or something And she was just like a have a sibling. I have a little sister named one. And she's in this other class. We Dave's no one no. Yeah that's amazing you no one. She added a Lisa. Amelia Gentler Davis Margaret. Louisa Hawkins our newest little baby in the past Sushi. Said it'd be a writer and she's going to be a pretty cool no one. That's my favorite. She goes by no sometimes if she's feeling spicy she's really to know one she has. She's a join me. When one of your classmates parents heard her say that my sister no one is in the other class in the parent. Thought that we'd actually had another child. Needs the child. No one we had to clarify EVATT Byan we got it. Does lesbians their names. Yeah we talked to my brother every now and then about like. What's your identity as donor like? Is this something that you think about a reflect on and retell people? He's Kinda like doesn't really come up that much. Thank you guys so much. This was so wonderful. Greatest connects yes. This has been wonderful wonderful conversations. They'll make dominating I said it before I'll say it again. Best made up last name about the imaginary nobody. Nobody nobody amazing. The best part is that that person thought they really did name a child. Nobody else lesbians were so strange. Weirdest names like Oh Ryan. The brother too. He was like exactly the kind of guy that you think would do him like he was so just chill well and he's on. Thank you Dinger's for combination. Yeah thanks for reaching out. No Hell Helen. I said roll it before rallying to tape again. Go rogue you gotta get a new hearing aid over budget already. We need some nor patriot. Let's let's talk about Mira. We have a partnership with MIRA ovulation and fertility kit. And if you go to our website over talk dot com you can get their starter kit for twenty five bucks off. Use The code this on our website. So do that folks. A good partnership. That hopefully is helpful to you trying to go do that and stay healthy guys. Stay saying stay away from everyone. Don't touch your face but don't stay away from us on the social media platforms. I'm saying always talk on twitter over underscore chocolate if these overs talk on facebook to enter community there. I think we might have mentioned something about Patriot. Ovaries talk what a Patriot Dot com slash talk for bonus content and you could subscribe to us on Youtube search for if these overs could talk to. Yeah we are all right. I listen I gotta go deal with Helen Right now. We're going to have to say about his literally. Acting Worse Than My. Take an APP maybe swim. Imagine if all of a sudden. Helen just yellow eggs. We're wrapping up all right. That's enough of that eggs over over his nose. Talented a spurning.

Corey Brogan Robin Moore facebook Colorado Dinger Helen Right Jamie Lake Boston Jesse Brian Hockey partner cory US producer Patriot community Beijing
Rachel Rapinoe and  Representation

If These Ovaries Could Talk

47:34 min | 7 months ago

Rachel Rapinoe and Representation

"This episode is brought to you by the new podcast. We are family. We're happy to have them on board. Making this show a possibility. Yes, we are not gonNa make you sweat short do shown to. Novi knows what we're talking. They really don't. Shanties Co host. Guys welcome to. Talk I'm gene I'm Robin where your commission. Patient Considered. A SPA. I am a lesbian. We need to tell our stories, not your nuclear family anymore. Such as your mom and dad were not burning. Hi Hi guys, lappy pride. I am going to say that every single week and you deserve to Ravi. Damaged pride month. Damn it, but on that no. Put on the football. That's the end of our celebrations if you didn't catch that transition. On that note well. Trump for the third year in a row has failed to acknowledge pride month private shocker. I'm Su- shot. That's I mean we're not shocked, but he has. He has taken the time folks to proclaim June as national homeownership month. Really great idea while people are losing houses, there's. Great outdoors month. Sure can't go outside. Good One and Caribbean American heritage month, which is actually surprising. Absolutely, they know that various writing I know only also did. Did you know that the White House managed to issue a statement recognizing June first as Global Coptic Day. What I I don't know. What that means no idea somebody tells what Coptic as what somebody right in to our social media feeds and tell us what Coptic means because too lazy to look it up. What in the actual hell is happening in this world? But at the end of your your your big resolution, or whatever you WANNA call it about Coptic Day could at the end you just rate. PS, happy pride, just just just try to pretend like you care about us a little bit. That's all he does. I'm trying to take away our adoptions cool. Oh, my God. Yeah, that too okay. So it's pride, but we did want to. Jamie and I've been talking on our lives teams a lot. About the black lives matter movement, and all the you know, the the work is being done about anti-racism, and and you know we I always want to say you know we recognize where a couple of white ladies that are talking. You know from our points of privilege, but you know. We just really wanted to talk about that with pride because it feels like. I was reading this article. It was talking about how we want to celebrate pride, but we also don't want to overshadow the protests about recently injustice that. That are going on because you know one of the things that said in the that thirty nine percent of all lgbtq adults in the US identify as people of Color I mean so. It's like there's this intersection between the two movements and we. We had yeah little. Yeah, see what you did there like the theme of the episode, isn't it? But it's true we are connected. We are interconnected and so there is I feel like there is a responsibility on our part to obviously support the black lives matter movement. And also acknowledge that. We are them. They are us. We're all. We're all included in this and there's something there's something about pride happening at this time where it's like we can go back to the original mission of pride that it was a rally in that it was started as a fight for justice. Yeah and Also. I mean I was reading a lot. This game me. Reclaim Pride Coalition. They want years. This year's Queer Liberation March. Actually have a physical march through the streets of Manhattan on pride Sunday June twenty eight, and it's GonNa Center around black black lives and focus on the violence that are committed against black bodies by law enforcement as well as mass incarceration in the stink. It's also interesting. Because last year was the first year that the queer. Liberation March happened and it and it started they started in protest to all the commercialization that has happened in the regular pride March and they literally the big pride March goes down fifth. Avenue and they walked up sixth avenue in thrilling. I'll tell you what we're going in the other direction. And! It's really and I remember. There was controversy about it. And you and I even talked about it you last year about do we mind the commercialization and I didn't mind the commercialization just because I love to see support everywhere, but I understand I understand it, and it's just really interesting now that this year the only march is going to be that March. I just think it's nice that like underneath it all. We know when it's time to get back. We're like well like the last couple of years have been celebrations, and we've at least you and I, because we don't speak for other people have been happy to say okay. Corporations come on in support us. You know show that you care about our community, but but now's not the time for that right right now. Now term to to fight. For Justice and we cannot talk about the black lives matter movement and all of our. Brothers and sisters of color who are fighting for their rights, and who are also lgbtq if we didn't mention also are trans brothers and sisters who've been killed during this time are black, trans brothers and sisters, and we need to make sure that we always say their names because their names are. Quite often not mentioned in the media not much. Overlooked, so we need to say their names to say Nina Pop. We need to say Tony. mcdade and we need to remind people when they're speaking of all the folks who've died. In these two in this terrible struggle that they are important to, and we need to do what we can as moms to. To to work on talking about teaching our kids, you know it's like I started to use like the lgbtq struggle as a parallel, not that it's the same, but at least it's an. It's an entry point that my kids can understand like I can say to them. You know how you guys feel being the only kids in the classroom that have two moms imagine being the only person of color when all the sudden, they start talking about racial issues. How? How feel all the eyes on you? How? How would that feel and it's like? It's something that my kids can understand and so we've been we. We watched that The Brown bookshelf had this really amazing event where they talked to kids and it. They'll start to adults later on, but it's on their facebook page. They recorded the zoom. So that's a really cool resource with your kids that you can that you can dig into in and watch with Tom. Yeah totally, and that's a good way to I think that's a good way to open up the conversation. Yeah! I! Mean like like like. We were like to wait ladies. So what can we do? We'll I can focus on my kids. We can use pride as a march like like. We just have to look around for all the ways that we can contribute to the conversation. Yeah, I! Know to do I think I went a little heavy on rose. She sinks and I like all in with okay, this kid is going to be an anti-racist I'm gonNA teach her everything. I went to hard on went into hard. She's I think she's a little burnt out with all the all the racism things we've been talking about. which she should be because there are people in the world who are burnt out with it every day of their lives, but you can't it. But I had her watch. And I think this is where I went a little too far on the first day, I watched that Brown. I blew I experiment from from back in the sixty S. Third Grade Teacher Jane Elliott She She did this experiment in her third grade classroom and she. Separated the kids with the Blue Eyes, and the Brown is the first day she said blew I blew. Eyes are better than Brown eyes, and you get all the. She gave them all these privileges, and she made the Brown eyes feel like they were just not as just this big. Experiment they were second class citizens. Yeah, and and then the next day she switched it and she said no brown is better than Blue Eyes, and then the ones who were on the bottom had to wear this collar all day, and they didn't get it's. It's just really interesting, and it was really really poignant. If you haven't seen it, you should watch it because two seconds. It was Lord of the rings or Lord. Applies shortens. Watching these kids kind of turn on each other, so quickly was I opening and really it's really sad. That had it was too much for her, but she was wish I. She was watching and she was into it and. At one point, she goes mom. To Watch. And forced her to finish it and Mike you watched this rose. You will not be racist I know. I went in hard, so I gave her a little break and that we're going to. We're going to keep the conversation going 'cause. That's it like anything we talk about what parenting and with LGBTQ issues. You just have to keep the conversation going it just. Keeps not a one day thing. Yeah, and we're lucky. Because even in our lives we can pass. We can pass. We can hide if we want to yearned black people, people of color cannot ride. The can't hide it so. It's not from us. Two Ladies Okay Stop. Shut up you, too. Mom, all right, let's let's take a minute just before we get into our interview to say. Thank you to all the new folks who have been joining Patriot community. I G me just like. We can't even believe the support and we're so thankful. You're really showing up for us. Guys and it was really hard to ask for you to outsource, but so we're a special. Thank you to our new patriot. Members who are Christine Glass. Michaela Osimo and Najah Rono Rona. Said those names, those cool names, and you guys out there. If you want to join our Patriot community, you're going to get bonus content. Like videos swag for joining. You're just GONNA head to Patriot Dot. com slash ovaries. Talk and we're also putting up unedited ad free videos for some of our interviews at the justice carrier level. Yeah, because we're clever. We came up with fun names like. Sometimes I'm clever ads. FREE GUYS AD. Free all right, so let about. Who is in our interview today? Robert Young. Rachel repeat now. Rachel repay. No, you okay I, mean so exciting. You might know her as the twin sister of star Megan re piano and they really are. They look alike. They're fraternal, not identical, but she's also a soccer player in her own right. She played professionally internationally. That was hard to say professionally internationally. I got it out though you did you did. She's awesome. Awesome person to talk to. She is also a business owner, and she's one of the founders of Mendi Co, which is a company that empowers athletes with the healthiest tools to recover better, so we're GONNA. Talk a little bit about that and I'm really excited about the products. She makes and I can't wait to try them and. Sorry Sh have been. Helen Island? I'm almost done with the showed like. She just always tries to cut me off. Why does do that to me all the time? Helen okay all right the hook all right. Let's roll the tape. Let's roll the tape. Now Hell it. Okay! All Right Rachel Piano. Hi Rachel. Hi, hi! How's it going? I mean going. For having me on your show on out to me here, we, we're so glad to hear here. We're all you know social distancing, so we're coming. We're coming together via zoom all of us. Yeah, and where are you? You're in Portland I'm in Portland Oregon. Yeah from California originally, but this is in my home now here on an offer about fourteen years, which is crazy to say that it's. Just getting older and older I know your. Place I'm from California to really where you from Rachel. I'm from like Northern California reading. I know reading yeah. Any much from California's always lights. German through once. That's what people say about my hometown I'm from homer New, York, and everyone always goes I got gassed their. Well for the longest time ready. Writing was like the most door. They're in and out Burger. And so that's where people would go to the Internet especially like people in Oriental, Washington drive all the way down to writing just in and out and attorney go home. The tomatoes get the in and out thing I. Mean I've had? It's fine, but I'm not driving hours for an in and out, Burger. I don't understand the love of it. Yeah, I mean I. Don't Love Birds Enough, but. Bias, I think is pretty incredible all right, so it's time it's time. To give us her elevator pitch thirty seconds. On your market. It's go. I am from very humble. Beginnings Blue Collared Loving family, one of the youngest of six twin and Very close family. They taught me everything. I do everything for them. In terms of my relationships, I would salmon knowingly that steady person. I try to be to hire too low, so you know my girlfriend. has enough emotions for the both of us, and you know I guess I I try to the rock that she needs well done thirty two point Oh four seconds in it. Yeah, I was nervous. There's something about the timer, so we didn't used to do the timer and then Rosie O'Donnell was like you need a timer. Doesn't work. It doesn't work that segments dot working. We were like Rosie. o'donald tells you to do something you do, yeah. Okay so tell us about being one of six and a twin. Well, it's funny. I mean first of all. It's Great I. Love Being From and family were totally wild all very different. You know good bad indifferent. We were very colorful. I guess in terms of like twin or the youngest of six I I have continually remind my sister at were both the youngest, not just. Like intelligence a couple years ago. She just is always seeing herself as the youngest of six I might. No, we're all the young just. His older doesn't need an i. like the older sister. A I've never. I've never actually had the experience of being the youngest one. Person again you know. She takes the cake she loves being the as your twin sister is megan routine. Oh. Yes, yes, so. She does what she fun. Fair I don't know if you guys like our friends with a lot of twins, but older younger twin thing it actually like does mean something especially. We're eleven minutes our. which is kind of along time and yet in the twin role and yeah I mean for some reason like I totally assumed the older sister, all she just always been. Timing arm top stuff you know, take initiatives. She kinda struggled definitely junior high to high school, so she was Airy, much in my shadow and I don't know I guess I just assume the all. Taking care of her so okay. I'm curious like who came out I. Did you both know you were? Do I have to ask how you identify. Oh my God. I was thinking came the wom-. I thought you wanted to tell her forthing looking. Forward nine years jumping for just a little bit okay is there. Is there story there, too, but we can't jump. No tell la well as just this store. This is totally like me. Negative nutshells like the last two months of my mom's Frenzy Megan had me shoved under my mouth right long. You and she was just basically taking up the whole womb. And that's exactly how she sleeps like. If we ever share a bed, and you make the whole bed, all issues are in disarray, and I'm just like in one little of and that's how we in the last two months in a soon as my mom dialed I. was there I was like an? Hour. And then you know pregnancy, stop making. She'll end, and they had a light crash burners. It was this whole thing, and that's why I love administered by so. She has not coming out. She's not coming out. Yeah, she was. She just wanted the whole thing to herself. You know relishing it and now I would say that's pretty much us in a nutshell. That's amazing, so like Robin, ask. How do you identify lesbian made? Megan I had the queer conversation a couple of months ago, but I think she identifies as gay. Lesbian yeah, instead of getting. You never know in this day and age. You don't WanNa. Call themselves. Lesbians didn't WanNa cones of gay. I I you know. Jamie, and I use lesbian and gay. Changeable, yeah, so it's not a lot of people do so now. It's like a lot of the younger people are saying Queer in, so we'd try be respectful, but it's. It's a lot to try to figure. Try to ask. I mean. Him. Yeah me, too, so you're both gay yeah. Mike, how did that? I mean not. How did that happen? Well even backtracking gazer everywhere right I. Mean I truly believe that light fifty percent of the world is gay. Whether you're out or not, so I come from a big family. My Mom's wanted her mom is well so. I'm sure we have a lot of LGBTQ representatives in the family whether they're out outer. Not Who's Oh yeah, I mean I think it just comes down to like a number steamboat. Yeah, I have an older sister who dated women for a while. She's not married to a man. Megan are definitely the most like out loud and proud for sure It's interesting. It's interesting that yes, the there might be fifty percent of the population who is on the gay spectrum, but in your family three of you at least of the siblings. were out. An open about it yet. But yeah, definitely thinks for my sister, my older sister she lived in San. Diego for a long time, so that always helps when you get out of like a small rural town to find out who you are Megan. I played soccer here at the University of Orlando and pretty much as soon as we got readying team here restarted. Again just seeing representation in Nollie for all bitten academia, just like out soon our it became very clear that for all these years that we weren't fight connecting with. The reason for that. So I I started eating someone like right away. A secret for a year, and then it finally came to a head and breaking up and of course I like the most exciting thing is a whole. We're all very painful, and so then I ended up selling Megan Oh. You didn't even tell Megan about no, because we grew up in Christianity, and like I didn't have language or I just knew that it was wrong. So. Yeah, it's hard. How was it in your house? Like? How was it for your parents? Having you know like you might really believe that. Fifty percent of the world is gay, but you're Christian parents. I'm going to just go out on a limb and assume they didn't feel that way and I'm wondering. How that how that was in your house? Maybe it was wonderful. No, it wasn't it. It was not received I. It's wonderful. It's totally fine and I, don't I? I don't know if they agree with my statistics It was tough. It was really tough, and I think huge. Huge reason for that reason why still an issue in society is because we don't talk about it is not normalized. There's not equal representation everywhere you look is pretty much. The same patience is white center. Sexual White Hetero male to and it needs. Change agreed allies this conversation. This issue is never going to move forward and there's never going to be true quality. It's so true. It's so true. That's why even like seeing your sister. You know win knowing that she's gay. Knowing that there are gay members on that team is like one of the main reasons. I watched the game. Because I was so I'm so proud of the gays on the team. You know we'll be like I'm older than than you and I played a sport in college, but I remember there was a real stigma of like. If you're an athlete in college, you're an athlete as a female. You wanted to make sure you weren't perceived as gay like. That was a real like a real thing, and so for to have so many members of that team so out and proud I think is really wonderful. It is, but it's not enough right. There's not enough athletes and other sports that are represented and this. This just on a women side I, mean I can't even imagine being gay bisexual transgender on the men's side obviously still is very much in the dark, and a very painful for a lot of men, which just makes me really sad honestly, and Yeah I just I hope that more people more athletes or leaders come forward and talk about sexuality and normalize it, and so that way young kids as your kids grow up dreaming and seeing all of these different types of people in the world, and they can gross. You know seeing that image and wanting to emulate that it's so true representation matters normalization. You're right on. Yeah. I mean that's like the whole point of our podcast is just to make sure people can see our families and to see that we are just like your family. Different. Same Different Yeah Yeah I. Know and We'll get into this about having a family like I. Don't have. Family is something that I want I don't know honestly because I don't I haven't seen a lot of same sex. Couples go through it and come out on the other side with these like run-up kids and right it's it's normal is okay. You know maybe I'm just I you but I just haven't seen it because it's not out there. That's why we created this podcast. Yeah, so your first thing to do is just go listen to all the episodes on this podcast. And then, and then you'll high, and then you'll have some idea of the, but no, it's not out there. They're not there. I mean there was was rosy and then ellen came out, but didn't have kids. There was Melissa Ethridge, but that was made a spectacle of. To a certain extent with the crosby connection, you know because it was just like what like that's. It had like a whole that's weird and then her life back to men look, there was all that. They were. Tasked with being. I don't know what's the right word. Jamie Trailblazer yes, but also like like for a view for everyone because there weren't enough different representations, there wasn't enough people for people to go. Oh, that's just their family. And you know what I mean. Nobody was out there, but I. do want to take it back to when you told me you're. You're dating this girl in college. You break up you finally. Tell your sister. How does she re because she's gay, too, but she does know it so. How did she react when you told her? She was really surprised, but then I think pretty much immediately. She told me that like she has crush on a girl and she's gay, too. So. It's not like Oh. Okay? They were both in hiding his name for about a year. You know we're both scare. We just didn't know I was definitely much more religious at the time I'm not anymore, but at the time it was much more religious in May and she pretty much. Shell stat when she went to college, but I was like still gonNA charge very spiritual on that way so I think she was scared to tell me. Not knowing that I just been dating a woman for the past year, but yeah, it was pretty liberating for us and wants Megan told me is like okay I gave this is who I am. And she was on APP whereas re is so. You know another probably like five or six years. Maybe five years like once I graduated college at Age Twenty, four. As. I had Richard Excite torme Seattle. That year I was kind of my like reconciling myself like putting the final lid on. You know that journey, yeah? Yeah, it's interesting I want to dig into the religion aspect like you both came from the same exact household. You held onto your religion your spirituality. Megan Kinda. Let it go earlier than you. But, then you ended up letting it. Go eventually so I just I! Don't come from a religious background, so it's something I'm always grabbing the understand. What is it that that keeps you in it or or some people? pull away from quickly. I mean for you personally. What do you think it was that? Held you strongly to it for so long well. I think you know when you're in that. Environment is just all that you know. It took me years to unpack the philosophies. The value systems the belief, the indoctrination I guess if you will it just a longtime act, because if you like turned from God you think you're going to hell with like we want to Al. Right, so it really. Really comes down to just like a fear. There's just so much fear still and religion, and I think like it's rooted and founded in his wonderful pillars of love, and treating others, as you want to be treated and kindness and selflessness. All of that is great, but it's been wrapped in his box of fear. It's just ordered by sphere it everywhere that you look and that is impressive are. That? Can Be very hypocritical in judgmental, and you know that's that's the part of religion. It doesn't always feel so yeah. How do you have religion in your in your life now or don't you? Know, I don't religion. I have a lot of mindfulness. That's I. Guess Find Minute of religion as being present and leaving with log than a lot of meditation movement, but no I. Don't follow, I don't subscribe to any particular religion. What was it that made? You finally say okay. I'm done with this. At Age twenty seven was when I I go, and I think I was just you. Know is an exhausting journey of wanting. Suggest like the happy and be true to who I am, but never fight feeling accepted by the church. you I. Walk in, and I had short hair. You know I I love Mark Gannon. Straits I walk into this Jersian even though they. Are Preaching that they love, and except everyone I've walked in and out of the Church and my nine nicer person say hi i. just felt so alone in the church, and when I looked around at that time, I was twenty seven. And I looked around it like all my friends, and all of the people who I know would be there for me in an instant and none of them were my. Christian friends, they were all. Friends that I had just met. You know either through high school or some their work or just like living my life your Orleans you didn't subscribe to any type of religion, other than just like being kind of being loving and like truly living at every day. Those were the people that I knew that would be there for me. It was not the people like in the church. And I was really isn't honestly. That's interesting, my true friends. This is what actual love it you know. Right that's interest- interesting. Yeah I'm glad you had that opinion I'm glad you've got where you got to. Because you seem very happy. Yeah, yeah, it was a huge weight off my shoulders. You know you're constantly living in this like guilt. Yeah, I'm always interested in how people can have religion and at the same time and we've had a couple of interviews with people like a pastor's has been and another couple and they. They were like both like deacons in their church and eight that embarrassing, yeah, very religious and it worked for them, but it's it's. It's really hard to get your head around that that those two things can go together. Yes. I think that both of those both of those couples we talked to though talked about finding the right church, one of them found the right one, and then the other ones created their own. Yeah I, mean there definitely are very open churches out there and I'm sure it can be done for me. It was difficult because I just felt like everybody. I loved enriched just or Russian, or fear it just every turn, and so it wasn't just the gay thing it was. It was kind of everything you know it was Russian women. It's like this systemic racism. It was just so many other issues that I just I. Turn it I get behind. You know can't reconcile that, yeah? G me. Am I have to tell everybody that we have a new podcast that we want to share with them. It's called. We are family. Oh, yes, I know I know, and if you listen to our podcast, chances are that you have a non traditional family, or you know someone who has one, or you're thinking of starting one, or you like to hear stories about family, or you're an LGBT, or Q. or extremely here we. Got It here. Who Are you? Are you finished? Like to cover all the because they're covered, okay, okay. Look all all I. Can say about this podcast is having somewhere to go is home right and having someone to London's family these days whether it's a two parent, a single parent, multigenerational or blended family. All those families that Jamie mentioned our families really do mean everything everything and on. We are family the new podcast from parents magazine. Celebrity fitness entrepreneur and outspoken lgbtq parent and friend of Ours Sean T, Sean T's GonNa. Make you what yes, he. He joins parents. Magazine editor Julia Denison to deliver honest conversations about the modern family in twenty twenty. We are sounds one does right. We're so glad they created this podcast. Because the more that we talk about our out of the box, families, the more were recognized, so you guys just listen to. We are family, Annapolis, podcast, spotify Stitcher, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. Yeah, go listen support nontraditional family shontae and Sean. And his co host Julia let's give her one to. Do your sounds weird. Okay, all right, okay day. Off. We just started touch on kids, and you said you didn't see anything out there for you. Like. Where do you fall on having kids? And you know and by Jamie, and I will be the first person be, don't it? We love those kids we we love. Kids. It's a lot of work. I'm sure. Where where do you land on that? And like? Do you feel like in the same way? I'm making a parallel to the church. Though that like that. It's opened up for you and if you wanted to, it's there. It's not like. What are your feelings on that? All right now during this endemic I'm really all that have kids. On. It's great to for you to. My co-founder brush. Leaguer is under the age of seven in I saw. You know it's just tough. It's like I. Look around. And this is not to be offensive. I'm just no incentive. We're talking right. Yeah, I like everyone. Would kids like it looked so hard? Days the I know that like I've heard you know. You don't know love the love of your experience Love Your Kit. and. I'm sure that's true, but then I see all these other things, are they? Have they go through and unlike I? Just don't. That's GonNa make me have eight, you know. Don't you wonder if the person who said that actually had children? Don't you? Don't you wonder that? You're like I. Have Two kids and I. Feel like I knew love before them I did. Along. Yeah, but it is interesting because you know nowadays, the gays are having babies, and it's something that you can ask yourself now. Realistically whereas twenty years ago, it wouldn't have been such a prevalent question. You have a girlfriend now you have many other for almost three year two years. So is this the part where you give us like the secret that you're GONNA? Propose in like, and we know it our listeners now, but she doesn't know it. That is that what's happening? No, that's not. I mean come on. No, she plays professional soccer. She's still very much in her. She's five years younger and I'm I'm five years delayed immaturity so luckily we're at the same level. and. I think in my like romantic maturity. And you see that to always an interesting thing where same sex couples or star someone who identifies as a lesbian or whatever. Because, it took at least me. Be Price, l.. It shocked me so long to find out to becoming Miami dating like you're talking about your mid twenties. Whereas like straight people, they start dating people's do their teens either twenties in, so they're just like ready I. Guess Maybe to settle down, but or I don't know. But I feel like I might delay. No I. think that's really actually a really really great thought. Yeah, it takes us like all of us. Kids later live are heterosexual like I have friends from high school. Kids are have kids of their own. and. I have a two year old and a six year old. And that's really interesting idea that part of the reason why we're so delayed is because we have to grapple with our sexuality, and how we're gonNA live our lives in our twenties. Yeah, if you're not a good place with your sexuality, that first relationship is a hot mess, yeah! You're attracting. What's good for you so? All the wrong people people and has similar to yours in that I was lying to all the people close to me. It was like I'm not going to tell you the whole story because it's like nobody's got that kind time, but involves I made her change her name for my friends because I was afraid they were going to find out and she wasn't telling people. We weren't telling you and it was like. This is the most ridiculous thing ever yet. She was coming in sleeping in the same bed with my friends were like we have friends who are gay. We like them and I was like good for you. Already I to me. It was like that girl tried to jump out of my car while we were driving. That's the kind of relationship we were having A. Not! Having kids at that point, no, for my first relationship in college we were we work together. We actually still going on dates with men. We were best friends. Of course you benefits. You wanted to spend a lot of time together sub together every night. Yeah, workday now, so so kids are probably not likely possibly like no idea I'll I mean if. This. I would say here's the thing about me I've never felt like. I needed to have kids to complete my life. Might My Love Circle. Maybe it's because I'm. There's so many damn people. My family's and we're not all you know. We're all over the place. So you know. Do we really need to bring another one of us in the world? I don't know I don't know how enter now, so it could be that like there's enough of us, but I think also i. just always feel like there's enough gas in the world, and like there's too many kids that need a loving safe home, so I'm going to raise a child. I don't feel that it needs to be my own I want. Help Society I WANNA help I city to light taking some who you know, who like need it once more than just my need for wanting to have another meeting, you know. Very Noble of you! Yeah, we'll see I. Mean. That's Kinda I would lie. Definitely have always wanted and been interested in adopting or fostering to adopt for sure. I got a year, so I think. They? Time to all the time. You have time. You don't need to rush into any of that. Yeah, we're not here to Russia to kids. Know God, no. If you want to help out, you can take mine for a week. So I wouldn't want to like you know we'll start in two thousand twenty one we'll do. We'll do fall. You'll take Jamie's kids spring. You'll take mine. It'll be great I don't live interviews going teach. Kids need to be more athletic. Let's. Just as good this is. I do know so. You play soccer to you all to do. All the siblings play soccer now. My older brother, Brian I have two older brothers, sisters, mass myself and Megan, the next oldest from us in five years older, his name's Brian and he was a little bit of a rebel child. He's added actually so he's been in prison for a long time, but anyway we totally idolized him, and he started playing soccer, and so we kinda just started playing and then I think man I definitely will have the personality of like less do what not everyone else is doing and it in writing soccer wasn't a use for and so he's got fell in it. We also have a lot of energy. Running soccer, so you can have it for like the really Orion. Get Out, go. What age what age did you guys start playing like five six years old, we started playing wreck. And then we you know we were like getting better and better, and then by the age of ten. We're actually pretty good. And there's a traveling competitive goes team that would go down and play Sacramento area, and that was a U. Twelve boys teams. There's a little bit older than us, but we ended up making ends, so we played on a traveling voice team. At Age ten and eleven in the nineteen, no Rocca. Played on a competitive team readying girls under Nancy broke up and I Elliott fourteen went down played on a premier team in Sacramento and offer high school. Wow, yeah, it's amazing. I gotta get my daughter plays soccer. She's six. It's time. Yeah I think it helped. We were like from Rural California. We actually grew up a little bit outside of writing in a tiny town called Palestine drought, and it's still the state only has one stop light nailing Abedin because they put a high school in and we on five acres, so we just like we just ran a lot. Who Say basketball definitely at times I love for sure, but we just. Weren't that tall didn't get blessed than tall me either I'm also jealous that you have a ghaith twin sister. It's like yeah. Twin I always wanted to be a twin just to have someone there all the time. Yeah, it's. It's truly like the greatest gifts anyone ever given me. I get emotional talking about it, see sounding restrooms wins not being close, but for Megan I like could be further from the surest we are just. Always ban each other's best friends and like other ask. I'm jealous a little late. You Jamie to have a twin I mean I think that ship sailed. So you when you came out of soccer like you've started a company, I wanted to hear a little bit about that. Yeah Megan I had a different company before this, and we ran out for about five years, and then I closed the doors. December thirty first of this past year, as I started mendy about a year and a half ago and Mendy is a cannabis or spring I always going to be on the sports world I come from the exercise science background previously lever with athletes I love connecting the dots of like optimizing performance, but not just on the field, just like staying on top of your game all day. That is definitely something that interests me in Canada's just session exciting space to work in. You know it's still very regen, unfortunately in very restricted. But I love the challenge of it in ultimately, it's just like fun and very warning. Making products that are good people that like actually do good in the world you know so. What kind of products do you have? So we saw basically like the whole gamut of recovery products. We sell off capsules resell got me as a massage oil. Topical Proprietary Blends. We have a baseline which is just see the only extract all the other gamma noise. All the because professionally had anything but CD system right, and then we have core line, which is the full spectrum implying which has all the other wonderful cannabinoid in there in on three percent less than THC in actually have a cream. Launching I used a CD cream recently and I used it. I use it for after my workouts Yes for soreness also used it for my period cramps. And it helped her sure Yardley. Take any. Over the counter us, As dropped probably like eighty five percent since I started racing CD consistently. What what got you into this field? Well, a couple reasons again I. Love working with athletes. Athletes have been using this for years. I also had had experience with opiates. In my life I've had multiple knee injuries I I started taking opiates when I was twenty one because I had an ACO reconstructive surgery. Man Me just seemed for years athletes using those types of pills or Ambien for sleep over the counter badgers super high. Just it anti-inflammatories celebrates in that stuff is just not good for you and there's like. All natural healthy plants and herbs, because we put a lot of herbs, other whole elements into our blends. That is so much better for your long term health, and it does the same thing you know I mean. There's time place for obedience couple of days after surgery. If you had an invasive surgery or during a ton of pain, candidates isn't necessarily all of that, but. You know I mean you shouldn't be on for three weeks. You know I was on I was on a couple of different stints of opioids for month long stints, and after few days like your brain starts become addicted to it I was on an opiate for a week after my c-section and I I I think I got a little addicted to it. I wanted more I called to get more thank God. They were like no Jamie. They said and I cried on the phone I wasn't a lot of pain. boobs hurt because she wasn't going well. Yeah had helping, but I cried on the phone to this nurse. Please like. It's crazy goes. Drugs are bad. Starting change the chemical balance in your brain after just a few days. Yeah, it's bad. Yeah, your products. You can buy them. On country right anybody can buy them by even if pot is not legal in your particular state, you can still buy these products. Yes, because the hip far bill passed, and she does eighteen which which federally legalized him. Right, you can cross borders. You can ship it in US actually a hundred percent online, which thankfully with this. Thing has been our favorite. We were like slowly going to roll out a wholesale business this spring, but luckily be like were too far into it. All of our products you can order, and we can show them any doorstep the United States. It's amazing. Tell people where they can order them though our website is www dot the mindy co dot, com, we go by mindy at someone's sitting on many dot com and we can't buy so it's been because people always ask them any rashy. Just maybe for the stressed out mothers out there. Do you have anything like a rub for the temples or just like under the? Sleep or something you can put on your. Children's knows to make them sleep. Totally, we have our south stick, which is incredible. I've read that on my temple artists not like honest and just kind of like. Our massage incredible is well, which has like a nice kind of like sandalwood, soothing smell to it both those don't get into the bloodstream, so you can run those wherever along exciting. Well I feel like the two main takeaways from this are one. You're getting engaged and having children really soon. To the fall in the spring. You're taking our kids right. That's happening also that you're amazing, too, and that you have this special bond with your other gates win, which is like student jealous of I'm so jealous. Jamie wants to be a twin and I as she was a global soccer star. I, I have never played a sport in my life so. I used to sit and make daisy chains in the baseball field. That would put me out Mike left field. That's what I would do I would make the team I'm not know sporty. No well. Thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us today. And for being patient with all our idiocy. We've loved chatting with. I love being. Here's to meet you girls I. Love what you're doing, you know. Thank you for representing us. Gays. Yeah you, too. Thank you Come on radio I've fascinated by all the twin talking about like just twin culture, but like the idea that she's a bigger sister when they're twins like I know that see these various same time. Apropos of Meghan Rookie. No I think that's kind of funny. I think it comes down to personalities. Sure does yeah. She was great. We hope you enjoyed that interview. We enjoyed it. We'd shared. Did we enjoy all our interviews? Though, don't we Jamie Yep Yep every single one. Every single one is special. They're like our babies checkout, Mendy Co. it sounds like they're up to some really good stuff, so everybody's. You will check them out and. While you're checking things out, what else should they check out? Jamie should check out our book are kindle book is is on pre-sale order right now. You can pre set you can pre. Order are kindle book right now. Go ahead and do that and then also out for it to come out on September twenty second. It's going to be out there. It's going to be everywhere. You just won't be able to avoid it, so you might as well sure, can't. You might as well just succumb? Also we started some partnerships to offer our listeners discounts so I, one with Mira, and they this Febru- ovulation and versatility tracker. You can get twenty five bucks off the starter kit. Go to overstock DOT COM and you're going to get that discount. Okay, let goes do it. Track those over his guys. Let's keep the conversation going. Join US on the social. These do find us on over his talk on twitter. You can find us at his underscore talk on Instagram, and if these over his could talk on Facebook, you can also join our community there, and you can talk to other listeners, which is always a great thing to do. You can also join our community on Patriot at Patriotair Dot com slash over his talk, and you're gonNA. Get Bonus content there. An ad free episodes? And you can subscribe to us on Youtube now and catch up on all our over his talk. Live streams that we do on facebook on Wednesday. And Friday and we have a special. Thank you to our sponsor the new podcast we are family for helping us make the show possible. We thank you and let's say it together Jamie. Sean. Julia okay. We Love I work out to Sean t like every day. No, do you I don't love. But everybody out there stayed healthy stain. Stay away from everyone. Yeah, don't touch your face. Helen Stop Touching Helen don't face. Helen's would touch her face. Twenty, four seven, I can't. No, she doesn't want to listen to knows right now. Helen knows best. Jamie, don't don't get away of her. Exiling ovaries. That was Helen. Own Billionaires out like? Can help her out. Yes, it's going to be. AL, and then you hear. And then you hear the big. Sur telling your cigarette smoke, let's go all right bye-bye Patio. Over.

Jamie soccer Megan US Mike Megan I Sean T Helen Facebook Robin Patriot community Rachel Piano Julia Denison Novi Jane Elliott California Al Sacramento Manhattan
Brandy Amstel: From Suppression to Full Self Expression  Part 2

Free Your Inner Guru

37:40 min | 5 months ago

Brandy Amstel: From Suppression to Full Self Expression Part 2

"You're listening to free your inner guru a podcast for big hearted leaders making a meaningful impact in the world we dive deep into conversations about conscious leadership, choosing a life of personal growth spirituality and the self help industry. So you can connect your inner wisdom and become the leader you want to see in the world to engage with the free your inner guru community online. You can find me your host Laura Tucker and the podcast on instagram and facebook. You can also become a supporting patron or an active member of our private online community at Patriot. Dot Com forward slash free your Inner Guru Welcome to free your inner guru. I'm your host, Laura Tucker or back with episode seventy one it is a part two of conversation with Brandy amstel. First episode if you haven't heard it I strongly recommend that you just flip back one episode on Free Your Inner Guru. So you can have the full scope of the conversation between Brandy amstel and I-. Brandy, and I were in the sweat lodge on October the eight, th two, thousand, nine together where three of our peers lost our lives in the summer we were both featured or we are both featured in the wondering podcast Guru, the dark side of enlightenment just a little bit more background on that. Brandy is a very gifted artist and some of the feedback that I received about this episode is. Wonderful it is to be able to listen to Brandy speak about her work and her creativity, and how she's moved into this phase of full self expression in her life, which is dramatically different. Then the stage that I think we all went through after being dragged through the media in two, thousand, nine and ten and eleven. So So in this episode we get what happened was we Finished we said, thank you our goodbyes, and as often happens we stopped recording and kept speaking and and before I knew we were moving into a few areas that we want our both of us acknowledged. We would have loved if it had taken place during our recorded conversations. So I turned the recording back on. So this is about half an hour of continued conversations about some of the bigger. Issues around spiritual warrior and the quote Unquote Sweat. Lodge, in that James Arthur Ray ran including whether or not we saw him as a guru. So that's coming right up. Before we launch in I have a request. My request is this. If you enjoy this episode, if it moves you if you are finding value in seeing and hearing the distance that's been travelled between the tragedy and trauma of ten plus years ago and what it's like to experience a conversation between Brandy and I today. I would love to hear from. You know there are three ways for that to happen. Number. One is actually I just thought of a fourth. So just bear with me number one would be to leave a review of the podcast and and and comment on what your experience of this episode is. That would be fantastic. That's public helps the podcast grow draws more listeners that's benficial to everyone involved including all of my guests because what I love seeing as people going back through the episodes and dipping into all the. That are there with all these conversations that have been held over the course of the past three years. The second way that you can do that is to find the free your Guru podcast on instagram. The handle is free your inner guru. So at free your inner guru and to look one of the posts about brandies interview and Lee join in the conversation there are you can tag both me and brandy. Brandy is Brandy amstel and I'm at Laura A. Tucker, but it's me behind that for your Inner Guru of count as well, and and let's take this conversation out into the light out into public. Even if it's just to say that you've enjoyed or receive value but. What's happened over the course of the last several years if especially, if you've listened to the first part of this conversation, you will know is that they our experience has been sidelined and marginalized and and we've been used as. Plot devices for the most part and that is starting to change but there is something very important in healing about allowing ourselves to be seen so that other trauma survivors including other survivors of the sweat lodge, we are receiving notes from them as well and on some level in more than one case they're saying this is really helping them and and I think to the degree that we can cast off the shame of. Decisions that were made or somehow there is this really funky shame that attached the to being perceived as a victim. It's time to move beyond that into a new conversation conversations with nuance and conversations were healing and transformation can occur, which is the reason why this podcast exists. So that's two ways and the third way if you're. More comfortable on Facebook, there is a facebook. Group called the for Europe inner. Guru. Hide cast community. You can request join that group and jump into the conversation there. So with no further ado, I give you part two of Brandy Amstel from suppression to full self expression and strongly encourage you that if you haven't listened to part one yet you may find this valuable if you go back and and and listen to them in a row. So we're we're starting immediately with think it's whether or not Brandon I saw James Arthur Ray as a quote unquote guru and and on that note we'll just lead right into it. It feels like heart of falls that the story that's been unfolded for years is that he's this guru and I don't think many people that went to those programs really looked at him as their guru or someone that was even how I take information. If he would say something I would kinda go kinda heard that before a little bit different flavors. Yeah. Yeah that works for me or it doesn't work for me I. Don't believe that way anymore I. Don't I'm not taking that one I'm throwing it out with the you know throwing now. Will and fruit for me. The first time that the idea of following a guru came up was long after the I. Guess it was the tickers on the news of self help Guru, their self help guru that, and then you've got this whole, I am rock store or want to be a Rockstar Guru of self-help world 'cause that's a real thing. There are people out there. That is their stated goal in life. So it is a thing in the industry but what I end, the actual real meaning of grew is just teacher. So to me a guru is like is somebody who like I five it's It's a term that comes out of India. So I think of Gurus being more like Yoga Gurus and spiritual gurus not. Western leaders even though you watch you how you're saying before about the language around the self help industry towards transformation the language around marketing these days has gone. From rockstar. Guru to honest to God brandy I saw there is a brand out there. It's marketing and it's like cult following. Every brand wants a cult following. This was showing up in my stream on instagram facebook just before like a month or two ago I was like, Oh my God. Help US help us all his now in order to be successful people have to start cult apparently. Wow. Yeah. It's it's. It's horrendous is what it is. But. Or maybe and I think it's all how people are looking at it like they need to keep us in the role of this. Follower lemming. And Him in the rollout of this. Gu. Ru Evil Guy. I don't know if there's any changing it. But of late all I'm really carrying boat is I'm just going to let people see who I am. which is super powerful and. What I see with that is like the separation, right? Like there's this separation he's that guy over there he did that he believes that he's got an ego he's a you know all these. There's a lot of that going on and it's like Were all one. How is that me the ads better question right there right and so like when I think of this this guru or looking at that expert. There's all of this stuff. There is not really a higher readers that person that has that piece of knowledge and it's like I think that that's where guru chance to you'll like. I'm looking down. Like I have something to impart or that person has something to impart me some wisdom and I feel like we all have wisdom. And about when somebody or something around us can spark. To Wake up within us that we go. Oh Yeah. I remember that I know this actually feels true. Yeah. That sounds true to me or that resonates true to me. That's what started happening to me when I showed up in his environment. Now. This is going to be unpopular part of the conversation for for many but I showed up in that environment and I started to see parts of me and see parts of me in Ham and the things that I saw were the I love speaking I love teaching I love expressing and and Oh, like I said earlier how there could be another. There could be another way for me to be in the world than slogging it out in the car dealerships or are selling this or selling that I wasn't keen on going back to not that I love teaching kids I just wasn't keen going backwards. Right it so. He provided environment that instigated quite a lot of growth. and. I can't believe I'm going to say this where other people can hear it. I'm grateful. To this day I'm grateful for it, and sometimes I feel like every time we take that stuck out in public to bring this story into the light. Some horrible things happened if he had responded differently in the aftermath, I'm fairly confident things could have gone very differently for him. What that means is terms in terms of who he is or why he is that's not for me to say. This is no simple thing. Is Not some fall. It is not some. And I just there's just so much round each little aspect of it in. It's When someone is in a learning environment? Like a lot of what I I. It's like testing things out to see how it lands, how it, how it feels alignment for me that I've talked about that slow and that's really where. The. My gauge, that's my monitor anymore I often as an entrepreneur would get together with a group of people and it's like everybody's kind of just throwing ideas out there. They're like saying stuff and it's not something that that person said necessarily but it's what the creativity sparked within me and the sustain for how these programs were. It's like if I am and. Putting enough value. On me and going to do these programs. And like sitting in these courses or whatever reading that book or whatever it is that I'm doing way it's like. It's not necessarily that the wisdom is on the sheet or coming from the mouth of the person that standing up there it's more about what it sparks within me and what I remember and what I just I feel like that. So important because people have put teachers in Gurus and and people from the personal development world because James is not the only one year like this is like a whole slew of people that put themselves out as a teacher and like I don't think that anybody gets they're not teaching. They're saying truths that have been around for ever. And they're saying it at the right time that spark something within someone else whether that's for lay whether that's for inspiration whether that's for. Growth I don't know whatever it is that it's side. As why I always get so offended when people like Claim words as bears. So they've they've said this magical quote and I'm going to put my name out there on quotes they shoved on social media like there. Some Juru. I hate and you only thing I like less than that is. Taking other people's words, putting them on your branding and putting them out on social media because I'm done I'm like don't you have anything to say Right. Like The whole social media thing is messed up to begin with. Me But I just I see like it's like nobody earned owns the words. So because that person said those words than you can never truly believe that you're GonNa have to find some new words not necessarily it's about each of us owning that wisdom within and being standing there this is the transformation versus. He'll. self-help. Personal Development Transformation right like transformation is I'm being that wisdom and I can align with that and so that's like super powerful in fine that if. I'm trying to think of some really special words that were said in the world like some quote that super famous it's not like. You can never believe that truth because then you had to be owning up to that you learned it from someone element yeah. When it's yours it's yours. When you think claiming nobody's going to dispute that you put those words as your quo. So It becomes it becomes a whole conversation at that level about agency right like if you always have to be assigning. Credit for the words in the thoughts to other sources the not in ways removing your agency in very much the way that got. You, know our our sweat lodge experiences a metaphor for that. It's tricky because I do agree. Yes our agency was removed from us. That was one of the most difficult took me. I can't tell you how many years you know it was years after the trial for me to start to understand that because I saw myself as someone who would never allow my agency to be taken away will you don't allow your agency to be taken away? Things get shifted around you in a way that you're not aware of until later. So I'm not God I can't see all things of all time all at once. You're never gonNA half full agency over a situation. Like that? Especially when they're things that you don't know that have happened in the past like all of that is factual in true. But I think what we're here to represent is. When human beings want to go on a growth journey. That is a valid part of the human experience. It's an important part of the human experience. and. It's better I think to go into that experience with your is little more wide open to know that there are potentially some inherent challenges. That we happened to have been served up all at once. So you can still maintain your agency and grow. But what's not gonNA happen is you're never going to grow to your full potential in isolation because you can't see all the things about you. It's on the court you got any play you gotta be in. Motion. To have things to actually respond or react or whatever to see. How it even Plays out how how do you feel about it and the way I feel about it now, I may not feel about it ten years ago. Right? It's. It's like there's always that it's The things I say right now and I feel super passionate about if we do talk in five years, I may feel very very, very different in it's okay. It doesn't mean that I lied right now right like I think there's something about people discredit because. Like they are they failed to commit because they're like Oh. God. What it later it comes back to. And it's like it's okay to feel the way we feel right now in this moment. And then to like learn or expand or grow or whatever, and then have a different thought Oh. Wow. What if I saw this perspective now all the sudden I'm thinking a little bit differently about edge and so. What most many people are hoping will happen in the world right now when you? Look at our pandemic situation or all the collective's. You look at our collective pandemic situation, the collective's. On racism conversation. The Oh. My Gosh. I'm talking to an American how about your the American political situation? And self-governance situation so that we can get our border back open again soon and thrive together. I've never been more. Attuned to the we are all one perspective. And giving grace to all and and just like. People are outraged they're. They're waking up to some anger and maybe they do need some. What does it so help right at that point maybe they're ready to hear self help they have a wound that needs to be healed and they don't know how they just realized how angry depressed they ben and then it's like okay. So that's the right time right action that doesn't mean that they're on a different level that they're they're. down. There because you're just doing the south it's not like Linney are it's more like this is what I'm. With being presented and what I'm going through right now, and so I think our planet is waking up to a lot of different levels of here's some that have the wound there some that have this massive judgement thing, and it's like, how do they use their voice in like all of this staffing? To personal development, the transformational industry is the access to being able to. Sort it for ourselves for each of us individually what's right it's what gives the tools it's the allows us to grow and to maybe This is the way it's always been, and we see we need something different. So it's like how does someone bridge that gap as they have no tools? So it's even more pertinent and more necessary now as we're having these conversations and like. Enter to shun it like It's it's not a tool and that it's a bad thing actually is not helping our planet in our situations are micro global situation. I think there's room for the cautionary tale to exist because it's a real thing and during my second during my second day of Interviewing I. Was He. There was a woman here from Toronto Madness. Deal were recording from remote and it got weird because we were jumping all over. They were we needed to fill in gaps and I was cooperative thinking. Oh, everybody's doing this. No anyways. That's fine. But I got to a point where I was. I actually walked at I left the room because I was becoming very emotional. It was very hard. I was starting to question why I was doing this being vulnerable and I came upstairs and just take a breather left this poor woman down the front room and and then I collected myself went back downstairs and was just like tell me why I'm doing this again. Reminded me why. and. A seal immediately sent me an. With an article in the Guardian about. A self help guru who's having retreats that are damaging people psychologically and one of end at least one of his followers have killed themselves. And that was very reminiscent of colleen. And I was like I gotta do it a half to be here to bring light. To the darker side ironically, that's the title but also to stand in. Like to stand in favor of this journey because of what it's ultimately Dr me and what it can do for other people. Is Wide Open And another thing that came up for me while you were talking is is the whole idea of we get what we're looking for. And so like I see that pattern within the the podcast within within everything that we've been talking about right here during these snippets as you know. I, hear them saying that that's like the part of the secret or something like you get what you're looking for, but it's never been more true for me. In that, I can find evidence for almost anything and it's only become even more pronounced in the past decade right since all of that. I want to prove anything I can just go out and I can find data that will prove what it is and I'm trying to say and so like I wonder. When it is that we will all collectively start. Seeing the positives seeing the light as opposed to the dark. So when I hear the dark side of enlightenment, unlike why are we looking to the dark side? Why aren't we looking for the light side? And it's just like the fundamental. told. Paradigm Versus New Paradigm like are we going to continue to look up? Horrible, the Sweat Lodge was and how people were lemmings are we going to look at? What did they actually get? who were those people? How did they? What why were they? They're like looking for the gold instead of finding the dirt. And it's it's. Just. Something that you said right there sparked about when are we as a society going to start looking for the positive like we could find the negative but it's like how win are we going to put more energy into finding the solution and working through it? How were we won instead of how are we separate? How are we? What part of that is allowing both to exist right like the negating, and this is where it can get tricky and I've always felt completely one hundred percent nick gated because I survived. Because we survived because we weren't a victim. Quote Unquote, right like the victim label has traditionally gone for two Kirby Liz James Shore and and Ginny enjoy freedom because they will be public in there in being Kirby's parents and the other families have have not been as prominent. So they are that the the victim. Now, a lot of the conversations that I've had recently especially with this, some real crime profile where you've got these was an FBI I. think Scotland Yard Profiler they look victim through a slightly different lands like 'cause I told like I have never seen myself as a victim this. Again. This clinging to agency It's in my soul brandy. Not, give it up. and. And their view was a lot more inclusive in compassionate and it actually helped take some of the judgment off that V word for me to go. Oh, Ya like acknowledged that this happened. That I can be strong and I can be intelligent and I can be independent and I can also be traumatized and I can be wounded and I can be incredibly incredibly sad. and to me, it feels like the process of integral like how can we begin to integrate all parts of ourselves don't let both exist. If we're always playing in such a way that we're afraid we might offend or upset or. Gosh maybe overstepping my boundary like all of those things that we don't ever express. We don't actually say wits present we don't actually get to live. What's true for us it's always something that's held down and squashed and builds and builds and builds until something has to erupt right and it has to be a big thing and it's like. Like creating an environment where it's safe just like you said to be sad to be mad too angry to feel like a victim. TO BE A. Notice like all of it. Right like why isn't not okay because he all of it. It's okay to be outraged about some of the things that we here it's it's like if I'm transformed than I shouldn't be upset. Like well, there's a feeling that's like saying that feelings are invalidating the feelings so. Anyway I love how? The conversation can. Be More inclusive. When we? Allow for it all and I'm not. Defending for. Blaming how things went at the sweat lodge necessarily. But there was definite separation. There was that person believes differently than how I believe. So they're wrong I'm right. You know whatever or this person's right this person's wrong and then there was like, who's who's willing to fight the hardest believe without even stopping the breeze and reevaluate. Gosh. How long does this little cycle has to continue? Why is there shame for expressing a feeling like or why is that bad I despise not like frowned upon why isn't it like just heart of the healing and if this is the platform, if this is the conversation that we have to have in order to get to the bigger conversation than fine and I know that we many of us that were at that sweat lodge feel that way it's like if this is the way that we're going to do it to get there then fine some of them aren't willing which I understand that too. They have that right as well. It doesn't make them less than or anything. It's just more like what's the past? But. I think that the more safety that we can create in conversation that we can create within experiences for people without the judgment and the shame then the more we can. Extend the conversation around it and and and find more light. Keep finding that. The bigger? What is it that we do want instead of always looking at what we don't want, but it does not do what? I feel like dealing with it on the level that it occurs is important. So why do this in public? Will it happened in public? Right, and for me, that's why speaking about it in public has been healing that doesn't mean that has to be anyone else's story around this anyone else's path. But guess what I'm a public speaker, right? Like it is who I am from from H tap. So is it even the least bit surprising in the end that I would have a podcast and have a voice and you know and it just so happened that not being heard was or not being heard in the way that I wanted to be heard was the wound. Right that wouldn't affect someone else same way, and that's the whole point. You know it's it is unique for each of us and I love what you said earlier about like. But you gotta get on the field to see how like I could sit here and I have sat here in my office or wherever trying to figure this all out. He'll by myself in all of that. Doesn't work. That's not the word, the world that. Any of US live in. The Lone Wolf. SORT, of Qatar. Is something that has been indoctrinated into us by another old paradigm that you have to be able to figure out everything on their own. You don't need anybody else and where we. I believe more in interdependence and integration because I see how powerful it is and and full circle on why these conversations are important. So if someone's wondering why this interview was two parts of all, that long as because after ten years, we've got quite a lot to say. And I hope that you will have enjoyed. Meeting you often say this in the end, the altro like I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did I needed every time. I'm saying to you in person and and I'm proud to walk the path with you however convoluted that path. Maybe it is still a path forward and and I know that I'm not on it alone such love and such gratitude neither is. Yeah Okay, bye now. Thanks for listening I. Just thought I'd pop back on here to wrap up the episode and also tie up a loose end. Don't you love it when someone says if there's ways to do something and then they proceed to give you three which is exactly what I did at the top of this episode. So. I'll just circle back around to close the loop. Now that you've heard this second part of our conversation, and if you want to engage with us, there are three ways to do that plus. Plus one for four. So the first was leave a review on the podcast particularly if you're listening on apple podcasts or stitcher. It would I get notified right away when they come in all over the world and it's wonderful because not only does it give me a boost and encouragement to keep going. But the more reviews there are the more listeners the podcast attracts. So it helps helps this platform grow which I'm very grateful for there's two interactive ways to engage with both brandon I that would be on social media. The first is on the free, your Inner Guru instagram account at for your Inner Guru, and you know we would love to engage with you specifically if you've got A. Question, if you've got a comment if this podcast listening made, you feel a certain way come on there and and let's chat online about what it's like to allow yourself to be seen and any of the topics or challenges of this experience. We are absolutely game. Otherwise, we wouldn't be doing that the second way is to jump into the free, your Inner Guru podcast community on facebook brandy and I are both in there as well are well as at least I think we're close to two hundred and fifty like minded people in there and the fourth finally. is to sign up to the Patriots Group. This podcast has about twenty five patrons right now, this is a new initiative to build a community around this podcast and from as low as two dollars a month. You can support the podcast into existence and part of that. The exchange between the Patriot community and myself is every Friday I'm releasing a segment of the book that I'm writing. I'm if you're not aware and writing a memoir. To again, just tell the story and tell my story in full form as I've learned over the course of the last ten years. The only way to have a narrative that exists as you want it to do is to write yourself. So a lot of twenty twenty has gone into daily writing and. It's not easy folks. Like the hardest thing that I've ever done, but it's bringing a lot of entertainment and and reflection and some healing, and also it's amazing. The things that in the wake of everything that happened in two thousand, nine I've really tapped into what my life was about in the early two thousands and there was a lot going on and so that's what I'm releasing right now I've released the first trip to Sedona that I took in two thousand and one over a series of a few weeks and that led me since it was October two thousand and one I was started to look at effects of nine eleven on. My Career but also my mental and emotional the journey that we all went on as a society then which is relevant today. So lots going on around the podcast. I invite you to engage connect whatever way feels best for you, and next up in just a few days will be Julie Men Julius also a fellow survivor of the sedona sweat lodge and it's time to hear from from her and her story. So on that note, I will sign off look forward to hearing from you and let's all go into the day. Light, and with laughter as this episode ended because couldn't we all use more laughter in our lives right now? I'm Laura Tucker signing off for your interview. Have yourself a wonderful day and until next time.

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What Is Critical Race Theory?

Christian Podcast Community

40:52 min | 1 year ago

What Is Critical Race Theory?

"<music> fijian's chapter four verse twenty five therefore laying sod falsehood speak true each one of you with his name worked worked for we are members of one another poise namesake prescribed dr jabbar busy apologised implored serpent disturbed crash chain borough from the doctor was going on everybody. Welcome back to prescribe truth. I'm jamal bandied the one who seeks to distribute the truth that a doctor prescribes to church and the world today this episode seventy four coming on up to one hundred. If you like to contact you can do so by emailing me. Prescribe dot truth at dot com or you can call me and leave a voicemail at eight. Oh one nine eight sixty three thirty three eight. Oh one nine eight zero sixty three thirty three. If you'd like to support ministry financially you can do so by joining me on patriot at patron dot com for slash prescribe truth for just a dollar more your mother you can help support this livestream on his podcast and any other continent. We won't prescribe true that you will help support and i greatly appreciate it. I would like to give a shout out to a brand. New patron. Ralph has joined the patriot community. Thank you so much roughly a contribution. I really greatly appreciated a youtube also join what if you would like to support this work if not as always appreciate your prayers on today's show what i wanna get into his dealing with as the title suggests what is critical race theory now know this subject has been taught about over and over again you can go on youtube and find so many videos that sounds about what is critical race theory you you can look online and google what is creek area find so much on this subject and so what i would like to do is awesome those things and just have a discussion about it. You know what my thoughts are and go from there. Are we gonna look at a couple of websites. <hes> once i in particular he's gonna look at fars just defining critical race theory and what it is isn't it gives us a brief look at sexuality and also we're going to get into <hes> where critical race theory stems from which is a critical legal studies so we're going to take a look at that as well if there's more that you think they should. There should be added to this conversation. I may miss tonight. Please comment how man let me know what your thoughts are in the reviews and whatnot i greatly appreciate it so without <hes> holding us any longer. Let's go ahead and look at the first website oh site. We're going to take a look at now this website 'cause from britannica dot com in its own critic theory and it's one of the social sciences and this correct as one of the social sciences is something that is taught in colleges and everything else by soldiers reading says critical race theory the view you that race instead of being biologically grounded and neutral is socially constructed in that race as a socially constructed concept functions <music> as a means to maintain the interest of the white population that constructed it now with that being sale already. I kind of agree with like we know biblically speaking. There's no such thing as race. This ethnicities different ethnic groups manatt race. I were all one race while part of the human race but race in this sense. The social construct was was derived by racial racist people. I mean that's just a reality about data. <hes> podcast episode dillon with how of black hebrew israelites say they're from the travel sham because in the book that they use the different <hes> the dictionary they use the definition of sham sounded definition of ham is that leaves a names all these different places but in it says not the negroes and sold oh and hebrew is lies. They'll say they're looked at passes or their definition when he says not the negroes and automatically assume oh see we're not of him therefore for we must be a sham but they don't understand that that definition was put there by because of racism he was based off of scientific racism how the people back then would and i was people not allowed. He will wait a couple of sciences. They will go and they will view skulls and everything is from a racial lynn's. They will say well <hes> these smaller skulls must be of black people in negros and these bigger skulls must be a white people because we're smarter and they were used used at has a way they will determine what people come from and so when i look at the egyptians and everybody who would come from him was they said what are you cannot possibly be black people people because they built the pyramids these monuments they were smart and how they did things destructive things the systems of government and everything else pete black black people could not have done this so therefore black people could not have come from him and that's why you see that and dishonesty by dictionary that compact bobber <music> dictionary that ham was not the negroes and that's why you know so it it is interesting is it is true that when it comes to race as far as being negro aid or caucasian join or anc <hes> mongoloid and all that that caused from right supremacy that i mean that customer customer former that right we could be honest with that. You know that the whole construct a whole d- d- dividing of us up in categories comes from that because they believed that those who are caucasian were at the top and negroes were at the bottom so those who are negro roy to say they were at the bottom then you had the mongoloid gliding had a caucasoid there was three classes three total classes all right as we have to be honest with that so i get that right that that's something we can. We can all agree with we'd be honest discerning history like the best true but he goes on to say according to critical race theory racial inequality early emerges from the social economic and legal differences that white people create between racist to maintain elite white interest in in labor markets and politics and as such create the circumstances that give rise to poverty and criminality in many minority communities us now. This is where i find issue so the reason why i disagree with this is that is so blanketed. We're not we're not told what wit labor markets are created to make that distinction between elites and anomalies as far as whites and non whites what laws what politics his policies what which ones because he back door before the civil rights movement we can point out these policies we can point out these issues after <hes> at the slavery every handed or during the top before anywhere <hes> blacks cannot read they knew it was against the law for them to learn to read and to write by these policies put in place to bring them down and keep them now we can point to those things as deafness as to what actually kept them down and even as to the not being able the vote and not you know an audit kind of stuff like that we can point to those things but when you have a statement i did it this. Oh blanketed where in this is an article noted not the article to be honest. It's not trying to give us a breakdown everything but even when you have conversations with people about critical race theory in about these about these issues about this theory as it is a theory in the camp point to what we have now that is socially that is socially and economically struck did to be against blacks and against basically people of color what is there you know i have people point to the fact that they can't get loans someone else talking about wages and jobs even income on the <hes> the criminal the criminal system and everything else boating when you look at those stats as what they stay what they stand for the stats don't match the narrative is what's been put out it just doesn't it doesn't so we talk about labor markets and it will what about the labor market's defective now who's employed floyd in who's making the most and working the same position. Get ones making more than the other or what we have going on or is that why it's only had the opportunity to make make this kind. The money on this particular level or blacks are not able to make that kind of money like what are we talking about. You know what are we getting to it. You know we have to define these days and we appoint these things because i'll be one if there is racism present in how a system is constructed and how something is brought up our jobs created and everything else else then i'll be working on a front line and fight alongside you and say you know what this is wrong right. We stand together side by side in the knowledge that this this is wrong but the thing is that the when you actually look for specifics in these areas. There isn't any that we can point to today. We had adam back then we can. We point out bagged in. Even i did a podcast dylan would <hes> early america how misconceptions of early america how there were blacks who own slaves as well as a white suit so it's slavery and stuff in america just about racism. No we can't say that was it was the case with some yeah we can definitely say that but not as a whole but then we're going to after <hes> are after slavery had ended or by no no no. Let's go back after americans. Independence at thematic got his independence sometime after that that you had weiss who are slaves to who now are not slaves because now it was against the law for whites has being slaves whites were all free you only the blacks being slaves even though they're black people all black slaves as well but that's what the case was and you could see a issue yeah right. You can see this level of racism here in the south where it was like okay. We're no longer going to have wise being slaves because we're better know therefore blacks going to be slaves so we saw that that is that is true as evident right. This slavery ended so laws that was put in place jim crow and everything else we can point to those things and then what what is it today. What is it in a two thousand. What is it in the nineteen nineties enough. What is it that we can point to to say no. This is still an issue. Today whereas weiss are such a such a way where blacks can get ahead where where we have then we look at the the criminality of minorities when people commit crimes. It's not all the time it's it's not if you if you look at majority of people who are in jail because they just ain't got an opportunity to be guava and get work and work hard and then therefore they got out crime. No they want a quick way. They wanna easy way drugs. They won't easy money and they end up using case may be. It's what they want. His 'cause working hardest too hard. That's a reality that's reality man. I'm not the richest man i'm not. I'm not rich by no stretch of imagination you know said i got bills out the yin yang but i'm working hard. I don't have to resort jokes. I don't have to resort to stealing in order to get by in life. Praise god you know and we can thank god for that but so criminality is not because there's some laws why people who are making themselves alea in there for blacks fill the only thing they can do. You go crimes. Even you talk to spirits neighborhoods where there it seems like this is just poverty stricken everything else how many success stories always do we have of blacks will come out of communities like that and make something of themselves even though they may not have had a father and father in the home even know mama may not have had the money need to make sure they can have the name brand clothes this third or have they first car. You know an ad to ride the bus all the time like how many success stories that come out of that a._c._o. Ayso because this is a few it is a means they know it. Does it means a lot because what is the difference between that person and the next person it ain't eh black person was afforded opportunities. That person was that they both who afforded the same opportunities as what they were done with it. What was done with it so that's why i disagree with that line. An innocuous we can point to some issues right. We can point to some stuff but is not a whole we can't and it would be an error to make zip like this is always the case and his his such as the case that is such an issue that hasn't been addressed like it hasn't been addressed already and innocence through <hes> though the intellectual origins of the moves go back much further creek race theory movement officially organized itself in july nineteen eighty nine a year after i was born is that despite the relatively appearance of his career in academia so scholars have found it a valuable perspective on race and racism in america worker creek relaunch with many ray scholars now take as a common sense of you and this is how is addressed in today lie you deal italy people he talked about this subject like this should be common sense. This is why we as african americans speaking out against this theory is lie. You must be dumb. Mike you must be out your mind like you cannot be thinking straight. You must be influenced by a white man. It has to be that because this right here should be common sense. Yes you should look at history and it should tell you that this is true this is this is not just a theory. This is truth as okay. Let me let me now. Let me go in and segue into thinking and let you know that the the idea that could agree theory is just a set of analytical tools is is a lie a lie creek arrose theory does not come with a notional saying hey less gathered the information and then let's see if it holds up critical race theory comes from the notion that this is the conclusion. This is the conclusion. This is not a a set of tools to sit in gather information. No information has already been gathered and this is the conclusion hints being a theory garrett theorizing. What what why things are the way our why economics cs wiser jailbreaks way it is and everything else is because of this because of white supremacy privilege is a conclusion our source says creek race theory scholars or c._r._t. Scholars hold that the laws and policies in the united states are bias against people of color and they have focus their scholarship on demonstrating the ways in which the legal institution support art that bias once again. I was bringing them earlier. How are the bias against people of color. The laws and policies were laws in what policies that exist united states are biased against people of color in the government. They will argue that the laws go to safe everybody. The policies fit the bill for everybody but cripples theory says otherwise my question then to challenge it is what laws what policies and you notice in today's arena of politics you dealing with immigration laws justified in in dealing with l. g. t. q. and everything else. You're seeing gene how they're trying to implement these biases. It is stretching far beyond critical race going into critical theory not just critical racer the critical theory as a whole is just feed into it because now the laws and the laws and policies are affecting these people groups right these people who want to have same sex marriages and stuff like that and warning to <hes> a women's feminism familiarize no navy even creeping into the charge the s._b._c. talking about women passes and everything else something. That's we've nets this clear in the scriptures for over centuries in not that man came up got himself come up with and we're going against that because critical theory and so here we have you have your race issues. Then you have your uh of sex sexual attractions on sexual orientation issues you have your economic issues poor versus the well being the rich and stuff like that you have all of these different issues so just go into critical theory but it fees and people envy people don't realize when you buying critical race theory you are still buying into critical theory you buying into all of it. Thank you have to been fall of it. You can't just say oh. I'm quick race but he leave out the rest of it because the same argument is used for critical race. He's used for critical theory and the rest of them so <hes> real quick paragraph in here. We're going to go into another another. A website says the launch of the crooked race theory movement in nineteen ninety nine marked is separation from critical legal studies. We're going to look at it. In a brief moment that theory established at a conference in nineteen seventy seven that rethinks and overturns accepted norms and standards and legal practice and theory instead of drawing theories of social organization and an individual behavior from continental european thinkers such as g w f hegel and karl marx or psychoanalytic figures like sigmund fruit as is theoretical predecessors as sales at feminists jurists jurisprudence had done c._r._t. He was inspired by the american civil rights tradition through figures such as a martin luther king junior and w e b boys and from nationalist thinkers such adjacent malcolm mix the black panthers and france fanny being steeped in radical black thoughts and nationalists thinking critical race theory advanced theoretical understandings of the law politics and american society. Sorry american sociology that focused on the efforts of white people people euro america's to maintain their historical advantages over people of color and so are once again in the pockets i did before did martin king had brought this out even surveys movement. It was steeped in lieu with critical race theory. It was based off a critical race. Theory was go into marxism on a difference was is talking. Marxism was dealing with economics and martin king was bringing into rice but still dylan economics. You know a marketing sending one of his letters that he won't wrestle that he would not feel satisfied into that. Until a black man is making to same amount as a white man he won't rest until into reality in also oh so that mean that's what he's looking at so he looked at for my <hes> standpoint of marks but see mars wasn't dylan where rice which is mostly dealing with the poor and the rich and martin came bar from that you but he didn't wanna as he said in his letter or <unk> communism he agreed with the outcome of communism but just not in their method of hogwash about it you know as that was his dancing are so this this one comes from a website called spaces were praised dot com this article so you do have the author name on it. We'll see an author's name but i figured information here on intersection now. It was it was interesting. Terresa wanted to read off of it. I will put these links in the description as well as far as websites i go to so in this next site would have connect- it says what is critical race theory really ray a little bit about what is critical race theory so we're gonna look at intersection analogy so says intersection natalie within critical risk theory points to the moti on dimensionality of oppressions and recognizes that race alone cannot account for disempowerment all right so where you had critical theory knock you might you had critical legal studies right you wait you have from their branch out is critical race theory in another branch out comes into sexuality and so it's the same thing right now we're dealing with the laws which is critical legal studies just dealing with the loss also but then you have critical race racism. Do you have intersection alledged with more than just racism. Ill dealing with different types of things all right so then we're an sexuality if you is basically you have most of you are <hes> if you are pressed in multiple areas of what you'd hope to what you <hes> deem yourself to be then you are more oppressive than the next person so me being african american male well. There's african american female. She's more press than i am. Okay so i'm more press than the white man but i i am less oppress than the black woman i then you add into that. <hes> whether someone is homosexual sexual or lesbian queer the case may be now they now they are black woman and lesbian not air more oppressed in the black woman salsa for so you have these different for intersections all right so it says is a multi multi dimensionality oppressions and recognizes that race alone cannot account for disempowerment so it ain't just because you're black that you may not get the job you may not make enough money or you've been you have the rights is because you could be a woman to use because you could be black and women's because you're black woman and lesbian you know so these are things that keep you from having any kind of power so now what what is this. I what these ideas are going to set to do or to try to do is trying to make it where at the top who are now the elite will be those who are lesbian and queer and woman and black. I mean in our this and disabled. I guess you could disabled in there too like all of that and the hooah poor so now they will be rich. It's funny because once the poor now may reach they lose that intersection they lose it intersects but yet they still have the rest of them so i guess they still be more so i guess but that's the thing is like that's what they want to be. Put up the the want they want to have them be empowered right so and if view by it's a critical risk theory you have to buy annex analogy because they used the same argument used the same argument was truthful warren's. We'll be true for the others not as good as it continues to say. Intersection -ality means the examination of race sex class national origin sexual orientation and how their combination plays out in various settings. This is an important tenant and pointing out that critical race theory is critical of the mini oppressions facing people of color and does not allow for one dimensional approach of the complexities of our world and ah i look i look at a show what oppressions what oppressions are the are leading it. Keep going critical race theory and in critical legal studies artists delaware laws and policies is not just talking about how people treats another like you know how you may have one person who just hates gays and they just go out there and just spewing on all kinds of hate rhetoric and everything else this is not dealing with that you're not talking about the one who just racist and they just hate blacks and browns and they just go out there spewing racist rhetoric the same thing with blacks going student races rediker against weiss is this is not what critical race theory is dinner with or intersection is on the way we'll keep in mind talking about empowerment comment being able to hold positions in power and wealth and everything else. This is what this is dylan with all right so my question. Dan is oppressions. What what legal policies are there against the l._g._b._t._q. That a fine is oppressing them now automatically with the l._g._b._t._q. We know one. One of them is dealing with our marriage. Equality wanna be able to marry who they wanna marry right so that means we're having to disengage a just redefine what marriages in order to fit with they split day deemed they are being oppressed by because they don't get they don't have that right in certain places so so that's an oppression they will consider that an oppression all right not something is not created just to keep them at bay keep in mind. Will you had what blacks when able to. We're we're allowed to read and when able to write. These laws put in place to keep them down. Put in place to keep them dumb. Keep them where they could not understand things. Keep them from reading. The bible does the teaching their freedom and liberation in christ. They were there's these days will put in place. The fact blacks couldn't vote that was put in place so they wouldn't. I have not have representation like that. Those things were put in place but see anything about marriage. That was something that was already in place before they even came about god created marriage and adam and eve <unk> beginning before any before there was any same sex attraction that was ever mentioned that was ever happened already. Got already established with marriage supposed to be so this. Is something that this this is something that isn't oppressing them. This is something that is actually true. True the one who created us and you get into what the other where they call other oppressions now. We name some stuff that was done before him today. What laws policies are put in place to to keep blacks down to keep <hes> hispanics down to keep l._g._b._t. Down and everything else what laws treat them less than human. We have to point those things out. It will talk about <hes> before talk about <hes> in the in the prison system justice. What is what is put in place to say that only the blacks are being called for these things and they are given more sentences than the weiss who commit the same crimes do the same the things the stats don't add up to that theory. That's why critical race is only a theory is a theory. Is that an analytical tool who is a theory as like still be caught. A theory is because it's not proven is not proven but a worn continue to keep pushing the narrative until they can make people believe that it has been proven and it hasn't that's why still a theory i so i talk. I talk a little bit about it. A couple times. I'm gonna look at to <hes> critical legal studies and this is where crickets theory stems from so. I thought it was important to mention it. I'm towards the end but before we do that. We're gonna play a couple commercials and we'll come back. We'll look at critical golden eagles studies. We'll be right back. Can you prove the god as trinity. Can you prove jesus god. Can you defend the christian faith and what is it that christians truly believe. I believe the new book by andrew rappaport. What do we believe we'll answer those questions and more some people just don't understand what the churches today but this will go to the the history and meaning of the church and what's more important than to understand man sinfulness and god's salvation. Get your copy. At what do we believe book dot com or at the striving for eternity dot org store. What's up everyone. This is james watkins host the five solas podcast and founder fouls ministries these sure to check out our podcasts that releases every thursday on your favorite podcasting app as we discussed christian doctrine and dive into the reformed theological distinctiveness and their continued relevance for the church enroll world today grace alone faith alone christ alone scripture alone to the glory of god along join us each episode as we discussed the truths fruits of these foundational rallying cry of the protestant reformers and how this material helps challenge and direct the current church and his life of worship and witness visit us online at w._w._w. Dot bosseaux ministries dot com that's w._w._w. The number five solas ministries dot com to learn more information about the ministry mystery and to also check out our awesome faisal's lonzo a. t. shirts and gospel tracts and as always may all that you do be done to the glory of god soli deo day gloria all right. Welcome back <hes> where now we're gonna look at it. Critical legal studies as we talked about before we dealt with critical race theory would it means it dealt with intersection what it means and and and how was playing in in our culture today and i gazed from my thoughts on it but <hes> i wanted to get critical legal studies and the reason why why is because this is where crockery branches off from an ineffectuality branches off critical race theory and social for a domino effect and so we will look at critical legal studies studies all right so we'll start looking at now is cyber dot harvard dot e._d._u. and dillon with <hes> critical legal studies movement and i will put the links indiscretion helmet in the in the episode notes in an inscription so it starts off into says the critical legal studies movement is a self conscious conscious group of legal scholars founded. How sorry says a self conscious group of legal scholars founded the conference on critical legal studies in nineteen seventy seventy seven most of them have been law students in the nineteen sixties and early nineteen seventies and have been involved with the civil rights movement vietnam protests test and the political and cultural challenges to authority that care to rise the period. I mean characterized that period. These events seem to contradict the assumption. That american law was fundamentally. Just and the product of historical progress instead law seemed a game heavily loaded to favor the wealthy and powerful but these events also suggested that grassroots activists and lawyers could produce reduce social change so you see here this whole thing's dealing with laws. I started with dealing with laws that american laws it did not come from an idea india that everything is just like they. They have to have a bias. There's a bias in the legal system. There's a bias when it comes to policies that have been made all right to to benefit the wealthy and not the poor all right so this is where it starts off and progress theory. You can just see when you just add elements. It's an how critical race theory comes because you add the element of race thing edibles elements of being a woman versus a man so dealing with gender have sexual story antiabortion so you add these elements to the idea of critical legal studies all right so it just how you see how branches off and these activists can make change they can they can make social change all right so says fundamentally says fundamentally convinced that law and politics takes could not be separated. The founders of sierra's found a yawning absence at the level of theory how could law be so tilted not to favor the powerful given the prevailing explanations of law as either democratically chosen or the result of impartial so judicial reasoning from neutral principles yet how could long be a tool for social change in the face of marxist explanations of law s. muir epiphenomenon outgrowth of the interests of the powerful wow hosting annual conferences and workshops between nineteen seventy seven and nineteen ninety-two c._l._l. Scholars and those they have influenced tried to explain both y legal principles and doctrines do not yield determinate answers to specific spews and how legal decisions reflect cultural and political values shift over time they focused from the start on the ways that laws committed along contribute to illegitimate <hes> illegitimate social hierarchies producing using domination of women by men non weiss by weiss and the poor by the wealthy they claim they apparently i mean are they claimed that apparently neutral language and institutions operated through law mask relationships of power and control the emphasis on individualism awesome within the law similar similarly highs patterns of power relationships while making it more difficult to summon up a sense of community mm unity in human answer connection joining in their assault on these dimensions of law sealer scholars have differed considerably in their particular methods and views wow so we all this stuff that we've already been san kosonen creek race theory intersection addity so just be basically just you see in a a framework of that the building block of all of this and he says many who identify with the critical legal studies movement resist or reject effort to systematize montage their own work so that they don't look at it not as many not all but many of them don't look at it to see systems changed right now. We know a lot of people who are especially doing. It was some dylan in the church and everything we're looking. We're hearing about people who are looking to make this a systematic change but there are many who are from the critical legal studies movement who weren't weren't trying to make it a systematized thing they seek to will contain re they seek to express claims of sexual ambiguity and historical contingency and their <unk> own methods influenced by postmodernism developments in cultural studies. These critical scholars prefer episodic interventions to systematize is theories. They're looking for smaller chains and like this small implement change some critical scholars press hard on a particular line of argument and and then shift away from it in order to avoid treating the argument itself as a kind of fish or fail a talisman type of feted kinda on a fetish or talisman some critical scholars adapt ideas drawn from marxist and socialist theories to demonstrate how economic power relationships ships influenced legal practices and consciousness all right so dan you see how marxism plays in this are so you can say all day that you hold a critical theory sorry yet you're not a marxist but marxism that marx's idea plays into all of this they draw from it all right it just went into it just went into a different area area where marxism would do the way economics this into legal practices and dan from legal practices into politics are politics dylan from race and then everything else it just it just it just gross use like a like a fungus spreading to different areas are said for others the frankfurt school critical theory and his attention to the construction of of cultural and psycho psycho social meanings are central to explaining how long uses mechanisms of denial and legitimation still others fine resonance with post modernist sensibilities and deconstruction notably illustrating in literacy an archaeological works some scholars emphasize the importance of narrative and stories and devising critical alternatives to the prevailing legal practices many critical <hes> legal scholars draw upon intellectual currents in literature pop culture social theory history and in other fields to challenge the idea of the individual as a stable coherent self capable of universal reason and guided by general laws of nature and contrast argue critical scholars and contracts argue critical scholars individuals are constituted by complex and completing sources of ideology social practices and power relationships despite the variety c._l._l. Scholars commonly one seek peak to demonstrate the intimacy of legal doctrine and show how many give us set of legal principles can be used to yield competing thing or contradictory results to undertake historical socio economical and psychological analysis to identify particular groups and institutions his benefit from legal decision despite the intimacy of legal doctrines three expose her legal analysis and legal coacher mystify outsiders and work to make legal results seem legitimate and for <hes> elucidate new or previously disfavor social versions of social oh visions and argue for the realization in legal and political practices in part by making them part of legal strategies are so he'd get it didn't goes goes on this website goes on breakout breakdown indeterminately and so on so far so i'll see and i will put the links to these to these websites is and everything and please let him a read them. If you want to understand more of far the argument is concerning critical race theory and and where it comes from dimwit critical legal studies. He's a song so for it. Just when you look at this and it just takes it takes away from the sovereignty of god it cannot be that these disparities exist because god what is sovereign and that some people may have been lazy some it doesn't it doesn't take into account all these other factors that could be included but it makes his main focus dimwit race <music> or poor versus wealthy and everything else and we even see an scripture's where you could tell there are people who <hes> male treated people differently because they were poor versus the wealthy with the everything else you can see all of that even the scriptures but what is the reason behind it. What is the ultimate reason a sin. That's the reason that's reason why you have people who feel differently about. Others are what going on is because of san right now when it comes to l._g._b._t._q. Is not because ascended people are saying hey you shouldn't give your mary. I'll be married in which you should be. What you're doing is not right does not because we're hating you is because it's against god right that act itself is against god but having money isn't against god the love of money is of all evil but having it in itself is is something that's against sky even being poisonous against god and neither does it say that you are less in in the mind of god because you don't have as much as the next person right but his taking away all all of these factors that we know are true because god has revealed them to his word and putting it all on race now is racism in issue yes it. It's definitely issue. I don't agree that is big of an issue as people making it out to be not today back then yes of course but not today a black man ain't now if he works hard and does supposed to do he can studies hard everything else he can go on to make make up a good success and their same thing with the latino and everyone else and they can you can do that right if they put into effort they can do that. Sorta opportunities out there the opportunity there all right now utah fars people making enough off and making the same amount as the next person and all that you have taken the different factors that you need to be aware of you have to allow for those two stations to be brought to the surface so we can draw some some accurate information from them but making blanket statements are not helping generalized points of views not helping not having a conversation going any further the deal with things honestly all right so that's that's my on conclusion with all of that. I hope it's been helpful for you. I hope that you found his meaningful. Please go back and look at this. <hes> information read over. It studied study alongside alongside the scriptures. I'm not saying put descriptors lower. I was saying like look what god says kosonen disparities look at what how god handles disparities how he calls christians to handle disparities in these issues and stuff like that you know how does god do with him as send send that these are spirits exist is it or was evilness wickedness. Is it a result of whiteness. That disparity exists and if you look from the scriptures aso's knoll all gaseous no so our like. I said it's hoped his behalf before you. Please join me next time next sunday laugh on youtube at six p._m. Eastern time for lasts dreaming of the podcast also find some various podcasts including artist's radio and google play so i look for you there so thank you for joining for this episode of prescribed route two podcasts. I look forward to talking to you next time and also remember in a world full of errors. The only thing that the doctor prescribes is truth blesses.

weiss dylan economics america marxism youtube google adam martin king dillon karl marx united states dr jabbar jamal Ralph patriot community founder ham lynn roy
We have intrinsic value as humans.

Misfit Stars

1:12:40 hr | 3 months ago

We have intrinsic value as humans.

"Welcome to the MISFIT STARS PODCAST I'm Shannon Curtis and I'm Jamie. Hello everybody. It's so lovely to have you here. Hi Shannon who has to have you here to thank you. Hire people later on in this episode, we're going to be talking Well, you know a little bit about politics honestly, not a political podcast. Say that. This is not a political podcast, but we keep having to talk about staff because it matters. Here's a deal. For All of our foreign listeners, you're probably like what is their problem but our American listeners know that we're we're three weeks away today from maybe the most consequential political day in any of our lifetimes. I mean, frankly what happens United States has world implications to? Matter so stopping, cocky Australia. We see. This stars people is a community centered endeavor and here's what that means It means that it's not just as amazing podcasts that you love so much and by the way the so nice of you. Thank you, believe. Times. It's also A. Patron community called Mitzvah Star share aim they're related, but they're two parts of the same thing the the pub podcast away for us to share where we're at with our people. Yeah and the Patriot community is a way for our people to share with us. Your sharing his mouth. That's right. Funding sounds so crass when and say it that way. Shannon and I as most of you well know by this point we do everything we do not at people, but with people in partnership with a community of people who support what we do and that's you. If you're listening to this, if you're repeat listener if you like what we do in the world, maybe you only like the podcast and nothing else. Hey, are you aware Shannon does music I produce? Records. I'm mentor a Bunch of other younger artists do all this stuff in the world and we do it in part because we're able to do it in part because people like you literally fund us doing it. We have crowd sourced a certain part of our lives at this point you know and a whole bunch of people out there in the world who are like, yeah, I like what these two are doing. In the world and I want in a small way to help be part of the team that helps them make it happen have pitched in and you could do that too. If you're not already, you just go to misfit stars dot com slash join it's small dollar monthly recurring donations that we're looking for here. This is not like some big can. Can you give us five hundred bucks kind of thing frankly we'd. Prefer that you just do like ten or twenty bucks a month do five. We have a five dollar month level the point of it being hopefully, you'll find a level in their atmosphere stars dot com slash win. That will work with where you're at with your budget in your life and it's commensurate support wise to the feeling of bonhomie that we give you goodness you like that yeah, it's French for good feeling. Like it's nice, right good. Yeah So if you're getting that feeling of Bonomi from this podcast, we do in the world in general please consider helping us do more of so that more people can benefit Furlan. Also, one of the really cool things about the misfit stars Kennedy by becoming a patron is that you get to be part of the community and that's where just so much of the richness happens I thought tops dry it's it's a it's a group of people from all over the country all over the world who have Have formed community with one another because of being misfits stars like they've they've come to it because. Shannon misfit, STARS DOT COM slash joint no no no, I'm getting there. But they've come the cans were initially because of misfit is because of you in me but they are forming community with each other like because of some sort of meeting in this central place entering stuff together, we have a we have a facebook group that has a private group just for our misfit stars patrons. I love seeing the conversations that are happening in there all the time you're so good like I got a life of its. Own. Godless. Whereas not even just you and me posting prompts revealed a disguise like other people are coming with their ideas and their thoughts tomase riffing on each other. It's great. We'll be like we've been really busy lately and I'll go three or four days sometimes without checking in and I'll go in and there'll be like fifty five cravers stations that I have not previously been aware of people just go nuts just related they have formed relationships. It's wonderful. People, we're in the middle of doing are October virtual concerts for the very final of the her whisper becomes a storm virtual concerts and literally just yesterday I feel that a request from two misfits stars who've never met in person but they are they. They asked me if it was too late to sign up to co host a concert together So they just came up with this on their own. Talking. In so we're GonNa, we see you added another virtual concert are October calendar and. Pitching in. People, it's so good. Yeah. So you really want to be part of this this community the misfit stars are the best people on the planet and also I just want to say here if you're like now, that doesn't sound too cool to me. I'm cooler than that. Honestly, we don't want you in. This is not for the people. It's called misfit star swear reason it's not called really cool people stars. Right. Yeah. Like we collect and ends, and that's how we like it. Honestly Woodley and I think that they're all super cool on your end. Hey. Sort of. But you know seriously like these are the coolest people in my world because there are people who are willing to be vulnerable and open and honest and kind with one another. It's not like this weird social pretend thing trying to keep up appearances and only talk superficial stuff and never letting anybody in you know what I mean warts and all in there. And that's how I personally like my life I like seeing people for who they honestly actually are and getting to know a whole bunch of people on that basis and people who are who are still on the path. We're still figuring stuff out still trying to learn more and be better and do better and not have not to have arrived or keeping. Up appearances as if they have a right because frankly no one's arrived you know that we all know that but this is not a place for keeping up appearances though we've arrived we are we're a group of people who are who are compassionately an open heartedly seeking to do better and be better and learn more and dig deeper, and it's great we. Have you know we have people of all different age groups in the misfit stars community people. Twenty s we have some people who are in their seventies. Right? There is as misfit star who's in her seventies who posted something on national coming out day we had a couple of days ago ask reflecting on what does national coming out day mean for me. Oh. My Gosh, I hope I'm that cool. When I my late seventy s metoo holy cow that was so inspiring to me. It was cool. That's the kind of people you can meet if you not in Memphis stars and wants to be if I'm describing what? Shannon. Sounds like your paradise world like your ideal place to exist and coexist with other people get yourself in there we would love to have you Mr Starr's dot com slash join. That's right. Hey One of the things that the misfit stars group is supporting and making possible is our monthly facebook live acoustic concerts and the next one happening this Sunday. So mark your calendars everybody's Sunday October eighteenth at. Seven PM West specific time. That's ten PM Eastern Jamie and I are going to be on facebook live and we will be playing a set of songs that are currently being voted upon by our misfit stars community. They're the ones who choose the songs I'm really I'm always super excited to see which songs are floating to the top of the SOFA. The list randoms not the ones I wouldn't necessarily think. Well. Yes, and it's really fun because because we're we've removed from the list, the songs that we performed last couple of shows that we did and so we're getting into some of the deeper cuts was known as knowing process. It's a winning. So, but the F. anyone and everyone can come to the concert is free on facebook live brought to you by our misfit stars But if you want to be part of voting on choosing the songs, you could get yourself in the last minute here and go to misfit stars dot com slash joint. It's really true I know that there are people who isn't as podcast who are secretly big huge Shannon fans. It's so funny like you and I like do so many things music that whenever it's almost like I love your. Music. Thank you. Thanks so much. If you're one of those people and you want to be part of the interclub like it's helping helping choose yes. Source Material for the stuff. That's cool. Yeah. You know I thought it might be interesting Shannon Dementia. You're. So in terms of what people are supporting when they support misfits. I made my first ever over this last week report to the shareholders. To misfit the stars communion. Here's what I mean by that people I like the Sarah Holders Metaphor. Korpi, ill I know. But it isn't it nice to have something that you have an ownership stake in. Corporate thing. Sure. Yeah. That's Nice, right point. I think I, I'd phrase it differently was our first misfit stars pay it forward report I like it. Yeah. That's what I call. It and hear people is an example of the stuff that you are supporting when you support Mitzvah Stars and I'm just going to quickly summarize your. This is the stuff that we have been engaged in since basically may when we sort of made this misfit stars community into what it is it's been about six months. And it's existed longer than that but it became a really much bigger bigger part of our lives. Yeah. So let's call it six months. and so here are all the things that Mrs Stars is paying for and these are all music projects that I am able to do for other people that those people are not paying for it stuff that you and I you and or I have identified that we want to see in the world music that we think needs to be lifted up but people don't have the money to pay for the right recording professional like me to make their right in addition to supporting this. PODCAST and supporting the monthly facebook live acoustic concerts, and there's all these pay for things and you're going to listen for us. Now I'm going to list them for you. Now, these are just things that I've been working on over the last six months and it's a staggering and really cool list. So I have just finished producing and mixing a five song ep for a local Tacoma indies. indie. Rock singer Songwriter his name's Jonathan. Mahler. But he goes by the band named trustees see creatures. Bright is is just one guy. It's Connor Oprah's but didn't want to be conroy bright is. One man band kind of deal this and this ep that we finished with actually the pay four goal for twenty nine album fundraiser You know these things can take time but here's the. Current. Things. KINDA got thrown out of window did but the EP turned out so well that Johnny and I offered to him at a certain point about two weeks ago like, Hey, this is really amazing. I would love for this to be an album. What do you think we keep going and making analysis and he accepted right and so basically we are going to be making this into a full length album. It is coming out. So great this guy this he's such A. Writer beautiful. He sought he's got this way of getting a mostly at the core of stuff that's in his heart the answer to a place in your heart and his voice sounds like a young mark from dire straits. So we just got this amazing Americana e voice, but he doesn't use it in Americana. 'cause I often think that he has like that plus like. Thom Yorke. Oh. Yes. Because he has that really high falsetto thing radiohead thing. Yeah, and he also Lake Thom Yorke can hold notes a real. Length of time. Yeah. There's one note in one song a new Sanita sent me a demo of I swear to God it's a high high high falsetto. We kind of know he holds it for likes six bars at the end of a section almost over the entire instrumental thing that thousand like how're you doing that it sounds turns into a flute and evaporates like you can do things with his face that most people can't do this really. Stuff I can't wait for you here at talent the needs to be heard in the world and I want like he's been putting stuff out on band camp forever on his own, but it's all this home recording studio stuff in his wonderful in its own way but I want it to sound like. world-class elevated. We're doing so what's on your list So I have been engaged since ours springtime sustainability fundraiser in this long term mentorship of this guy from Kansas City's and artists in Kansas. City named Grainger Lofton We established as sort of lake back and forth kind of thing. He just randomly sent song last April or something was like Hey Chris Giger, opinion on this. And I was like sure absolutely. So I listened to it and I sent him some notes and much to my surprise he sent me revised mix incorporating my note saying how does it sound now and I was like here's some more notes and we went back and forth and we kind of finished it And then I was like what's next and he sent me another one. And we kept doing that and we have all this relationship and we finished together just kind of more regular EP. You know it was sort of a concept album about the arc of an evening out it was it was nice. Cute. It was not super emotionally deep, really good songs young writing you know. In the time that we were just finishing that up George Floyd got murdered. Now Grainger's a black man and he's he's a little older than me. He's he's like I think fifty five or so give or take, and so he's been around just a little bit longer like he was born in the sixties and he you know has seen subsequent lake cycles of like. Of Racial Justice protests in lake, white people getting real board, and then seeing something shiny and leaving you know that whole sort of. Other. Early, really underside. Oh maybe not are the now maybe not you know and you know like white people like. We can sort of take her leave racism right? We shouldn't but we can because we're the ones affected by because we're white you know and you know grandeur you know started like the black lives matter protest course started happening immediately after George George Florida's mortared and and you know grainger was involved in some of those and just like you know and it brought up all this stuff and I'm he wrote an entire album about songs over the two weekends falling George Right, it's murder. We spent the entire summer producing that record day You know and I mentored him through doing all of it himself because he's a pretty talented self recorded and he's learning how to mix better and I'm helping him with that and we finished that The mix has got finished like a week ago two weeks ago, and I am going to master hopefully next week if I get time. And that's GONNA come out in November and it's a full length album exploring the nature the cyclical nature of racial justice in America from the point of view of a fifty, five year old black man and it's just so great. It's so raw and honest and open, but also kind and hopeful yearning. It's this amazing body of work. So that's the thing that's that's a pay it forward thing. About two months ago I started mentoring and nineteen year old from Central Iowa. His name is Devon Burke. He's talented, very talented singer with a musical theater background and a budding songwriter He's influenced and he's like twenty was influence an equal measure by Jack. Johnson Drake. So he's got like the sort of feel feel good easy easy acoustic thing on but he's also got this super CMO kind of half rapped. Half Sung more. Sung and rapped thing where like it's all about talking about like how feeling about things like honest and emotional you know it quickly became he's just started making recordings but became really obvious me really quickly his very talented at it like he yeah and a knack for it and so I suggested that we get to work on a record and he picked a central topic to write. Songs around because that would help him organize his mind. You know you didn't have to pluck songs out of the air and he decided to write it about his experience as a young man going off to college like leaving his home. Leaving his first set of relationships forming new all that coming of age stuff. It's wonderful. Great. It's connecting me back to how I was that age he's he's really good at it. We you and I were just guest lectures a couple of weeks ago for a dear friend of ours in New York City who's a professor of music business at nyu And one of the students who was on there this young Cuban American woman from the Miami area She reached out to both of us and this is a to I. She's getting shipped from not just me but also you. Great because Shannon mentoring her on songwriting. Yeah and I on a parallel track a mentoring her on self recording and production. Awesome and and you know once China helped to write a song I'm helping her chop up and tighten it up and all the things I do as a producer. You know it's amazing. She has been planning once she finishes his last year of college that she's in the music business program at Nyu to go on and get a master's in music production and she I'm going to help her get a head start on that. So she does it before she goes in and can really like kick but when she gets. And what else you know those are the biggies but those four things just listed people I mean those are like that's that's four artists that I can work with. And making substantial projects we're talking, yeah. Two full length albums and an EP and who knows what I'll do. I'm doing another record with Devon's three albums, an EP, and then probably at least an EP. So. MISFIT stars is directly responsible by supporting us through our Patriot community. Yes. For me being able to help artists put. Three albums and to EP's worth of material out into the world at no cost to these artists. Really cool witches fricken amazing. Yes. You know. So people I hope you didn't mind that little digression but that was sort of a mini pay Ford reports. Of the misfits stars podcast because I want you to know that the support that you give us via this podcast has real world report for deserving people. And I think that's powerful. Yeah. It's a way that you all are making your voice heard in the world through us. Thank you for that. Thank you for that. That was an unusually long preamble to our podcast but. Sit? You know but there's no rules. Are Friggin podcast people. Here's the thing. Shannon likes order. Knows this right is Shannon likes order and she likes regularity and she likes rules. And a script is lake rules. Yes and when we go off, the scoff script gets freaked out. Doing. A really good job I. think you but I'M GONNA get back on scripts now. Oh Great. Let's do it. Timmy. How are you feeling today? I thought so much sweet. How `Bout you? Do Second Okay you first how are you? Feeling good I we we spent some time volunteering today which we'll talk about a little bit later but always NASC- felt great the the the one thing that's been like making me feel agitated and it's been super windy here you don't like it up and I just get I. Get a little bit near. Mindy. Confirm. So you know that's that's happening. Won't last forever. And also like early this morning is. The opposite of rules they weren't necessarily yes. There were thunderstorms this morning the like early this morning before we woke up and like the window was cracked but this one thunderclap that just sent me I was crawling on the ceiling so loud. You Know Shannon Walker so for. Nearly crying she was so I had to immediately snuggle link protective snuggle like you would do with. Thunder. Thunder blanket. Blanket. So out of the those things can tend to lake amp. But I feel generally pretty good i. think because I spent the afternoon doing something that felt really productive for the election. So that was really good. But overall I'M GONNA had some challenging personal stuff. Come my way last week late last week, some family family related stuff that. Just. Was A bummer for a couple of days but I worked through that and I had loving support of of you of course, other friends, and other family members for that matter to just kind of like working through it, and so I I but I feel really good today. Yeah. How about you? You know I feel good today to and I have felt good for I. Want to say the last three days. That's good. Maybe even four Saturday Sunday. Four. Days because we had a lovely day, Saturday? Yeah. Because Saturday was your birth everyone Saturday with Shannon's bread. and. So we took the whole day off I cook Channel Eight diner style it was good. She had been lamenting not being able to go to a diner and get diner breakfast I just made her one. Yeah, and it was tasty decent job did not the cook in the family but but I I pulled it out you did yeah and then we just went driving and like we just walking. structured. Yes. Beautiful. Sunny afternoons we just like put the sun roof over and we liked drove around Tacoma, like which has waterfront everywhere you look and so he just stopped at different place on the waterfront and walked around a little bit and then got back in the car drove to another place. Got Out. It was great. Yeah. It was really pleasant. We went to crispy cream. Yeah, we did. Donut I think. Were obtained. All this relates how you're feeling today. Well none of it does. Again Shany's order people I'm trying to be on track. Sorry. Someone didn't just have like twelve ounces of coffee right before we started recording and that's me. So I'm just GONNA keep it keep it on traffic. So. You know it's just it's unusual for me to have had four days in a row. Honestly probably the longest stretch I've had days where I feel good in. I don't know three or four months. Maybe, since the beginning of pandemic, it's hard to remember But yeah, no, it's it's it's been hard. You know that I've been talking with the all about it on here and privately you know. But yeah I don't know. It's selects something shifted this last week a little bit. You know. So I don't know I feel guardedly optimistic also terrified but the terror like is more time. Consuming the personally right now I'm sure that'll change. Don't get me wrong, right sure. There'll be some horrible thing that happens I mean maybe it's happening right now on the phone. and. If I were to turn my phone. Thousand News alerts and it'd be all bad. Right now I feel really good and I have number of days. Odd and I'm pleased about it. You know I don't feel that you for green thing but I just feel solid and good. That's we'll take it. Yeah. Well, it's not like the it's what I'm getting at here is it's not like a bipolar kind of thing where I have bad down things in a manic up things it's just I feel normal. That's nice to feel that. Nice. So there's that. Yeah. So so yes. So last week where we get into anyway well, it was my birthday and we had a lovely day. Great we we did you did lots of mentoring this over this weekend to do lots of mentoring So this is like in addition to although like you know music stuff, you just talked about but other mentoring stuff do you have any highlights from that? You know actually I do and I, it was just last night I talked with this young woman. Who has the best name of anybody? We know her name is Taylor Taylor. And that's really her name, her last name Taylor and her mom who we have met a museum. Supportive mom and she brought her a music conference yet met her there. Her mom named her Taylor. Taylor Taylor. It's so good and it's so good. Taylor Taylor. She's young. She's a young friend of ours. She's in her early twenty's. She's got a really good voice She's just starting out singer-songwriter you know. She's living in L.. A., has been for about a year. She moved from Lansing Michigan you know It's funny because like at the time you know she was talking about we're like you should not move to la that's not something to do. And she she went. To her age because. Lansing Michigan to La. Of course, WE'RE GONNA GO TO LA. Very dramatic and exciting lansing is not it's lovely but it's not that and so you know. She. Has Been doing that whole sort of trying to be a singer songwriter in La, and it's really really hard share. It's all supply relative to demand. It's hard to get people to pay attention to you. Even if you're really good because everybody, there is a really good singer song. You cannot throw a stick on the street and not hit a good singer, songwriter. Into somebody by mistake, there are probably a better singer-songwriter. Terrible Yeah It's hard I. think she's really she's feeling that and also it's a corona virus pandemic and like there's like there's no performance at. There's limited outdoor busking type of things or playing like you know in a cordoned off area on the side of an outdoor bar just like she needs crappy things like there's none none of the good venues or opened under the places where you could actually like have a good show maybe get a couple of people on your email. Listen feels exciting in like a cool thing like, oh, that's all gone right now you know. So she's doing some waitressing and that's good but she is thinking about starting a Patriot and she just reached out to say, Hey, do you have any suggestions? You have thoughts and I was like, yes, I have thought. To talk on the phone she message me on Messenger as a phone conversation and it was really interesting. You know and the takeaway for me was like the idea of intrinsic self worth you know and she didn't really like approach the situation from a from a point of view of I, have value as a person in the world you know I really noticed that you know her the way that she was thinking about doing her patriotic was like you and I do ours on a monthly basis people just it's it's it's once a month every month you know and sign up for recurring monthly charge and it's like it's like a subscription. Away you can do it on though which is to Make it be a you get paid per creation they call it right? Which immediately everytime you released a video or a song or whatever. Source Supporting you get charged for that. Yeah. Yeah. So basically what it does, it does a number of things that are bad but you know put you on a hamster wheel of having to constantly be quote unquote creating content to lake push out there so that you can make a little bit of money. and it's not a healthy incentive system whatsoever because it really makes you be a content creator as opposed to an artist. You know it's like you're a little. Weird factory worker, not a healthy way to think about what you do. Yes And I really had to talk through this idea that there's this really unhealthy thing I mean it's been in America for a long time that like we've view are worth a lot of us a lot of time as being based on what we can produce. Right. You know it's a very capitalist way of looking at things like if if if you're not someone. Who can produce something? Maybe you're disabled you know or something like that. You know like it's really is really tempting to marginalize ourselves and we're in situations where we can't be productive right you know and that's not healthy either because humans have intrinsic worth it's that kind of toxic thinking in America that leads us to tie health insurance to employment because if you. Don't have a job and are producing something well, then why would you deserve healthcare serving things? You're not producing any way Y- should starve in the street that's kind of mentality in this. Yeah. It's really bad and it permeates artistic class right? Because people get confused about this thing look okay. I want my job to be musicians artists so I have to treat tree. Like a job and be productive and sell it and make money and lake. That's not necessarily the point of what are should be right I mean, yes. You do want to be productive in terms of actually making stuff that you want that. You know that that you're compelled to make peace on caulk but not like on. Yeah. Yeah. Not like a a factory part. You're not making widgets. Trying to get at the center of the human condition and communicate that back out to other people in a way that enriches their lives. And you can't repeatedly and predictably do that on a schedule you know. Like, I mean, even you, you're the most amazing writer in the world that I've ever met in terms of how much you right and how productive you can be around. But even you like sometimes we'll be like I just don't I don't have it today. Oh Yeah. I didn't have it for the entire month of September. I had personal had a couple of personal song projects that I needed to work on and I. Just I, I was an empty vessel I had nothing there was nothing in me to pour. In creating new I have I'm happy to report that I have I'm back on my game and actually just finished a personal song people. It's so good. Just two nights ago. I. Finished it and then Jamie mixed mixed it yesterday underproduction production people and it's really Well, it's really fun because this is one of the songs I got to do. I'm sorry to rapid trail from your conversation. but. There's no rule I'm not bound by this. Okay I. Didn't know if you had a a point you were trying to get to do okay I've got a decent memory I'll get back right interest you. So. I this is one of I most personal songs that I do our acoustic personal songs where it's just the arrangement is it's just piano and vocal and that's it but there's another another tier that people can hire me to do, and that's a full production studio production arrangement of his records. Yeah and so that's what this one wasn't unusual other. They do do fewer of these than the cousteau. Forty got to dig in and do that on this one, and it was really fun to create this whole world for this the story of the song deliver and and it was really to do and I'm happy to report that I feel like I've got my mo Jo back. And on that tip. I had wheels turning now for a few weeks about how and when we can best get started on that other misfit stars funded project where we promised to make democ album that still that's still happening but just given the way that this year has gone we we feel like we're not going to start that until after the election, it makes it make it doesn't make sense to put a into energy toward that before it also like that's one of the storylines. Going go on this project until that's resolved I mean, let's I'm I'm not fooling myself thinking that lake on November fourth, there's going to be a tidy bow tied up on everything that's happened in two thousand twenty. There's always going to be something more to be revealed but. That seems like a logical a logical place to start this next project but happy to report that I, don't feel like an empty vessel anymore. And that I can I can I can I feel like I back get back on my creative forces I felt that too I mean had I've had records on my docket to mix. Did, not really do much of that work September. It was just a hard month did like I didn't have energy to do it, and even if I had physical energy like the Energy Abbas bad like that thing, I was talking about where I just had a four day stretch of feeling decent and that's a longest in like five months or whatever. September was not a good month for that and like the energy I had when I had it was not the energy that I would want to put into someone else's record like it would feel like malpractice. Yeah. I should not be imbuing someone else's are with this. So you know to bring it back to the conversation the mentorship conversation I had with. Taylor. Last night you know it was really cool because I was able to talk with her about the idea that she is a human being has intrinsic worth and that her worth as an artist is not tethered to being able to turn things out on a scheduled to get rabbit pellets of reward it's more about. The idea that like she has, she has a community of people around her already a small one. Right? She's younger than US and it's smaller than ours but it's there. It's a little community. Yeah and so I was able to encourage her in the idea that like these are the people who love you are the people who really care about what you're doing in the world who want to see you succeed. and. So engage them to start with right like that can be your base for this thing, and the idea is that they are supporting you in an abstract way. They're not supporting you because they want to get something in now in a better be here three weeks now ray. Right, they want to support you so that you can grow and learn in this time. I would love to see US evolve more as a society in terms of seeing each other whether we're artists or we do other things in you know. In in life. We're that. We see that we. That we can see other from from that perspective more that we could. We could organize our society in a way that just you know dignifies humanity. Because it's humanity and not because of the the production of of each human you know like you were saying with, you know tying healthcare two jobs and you know they're they're a lot of there are a lot of ways in which we could practically put that perspective into action I'm would be curious to to delineate some of those at some point and figure out what we can work toward. Writ Large as a society so you're saying does. Well right here on bogged down. We start having conversations about these and start adjusting are thinking you know I think that that's that's where where all you know positive change starts is just an in acknowledging myths that we've just bought into as reality. You know like I mean we've really we've bought in you know wholeheartedly to this myth that That are worth is tied to our work and it's just not it's worth is tied to are being. That is so true. Yeah. You know, where is this other thing here it is speaking of good ideas to put our heads. I wanted to read this little thing. Okay. So people isn't the PODCAST know that I've I've got sobriety in my story and I have just as of late this last month being on this wonderful new thing it's like all men text group. It's a gratitude list group call that a buddy of mine from my friends sober crew in L. A. Mostly. Yeah. It's my la. Sober. Crew is different crews from different places. I've lived. So I got my L. A. Sober crew of. Also. Got My San Francisco Sober crew great but my la sober crew I was part of a men's meeting there. That was just wonderful and this is some of those guys and then some other people who they know and it's just a we stay gratitude list those in there and we share with each other and there's just little tiny side conversations not much people mostly stay on topic but they'll share little things inspire them, and this was one of them and I just thought I'd share it I thought that maybe our people could use to hear it today. And and so it's like it's a little. It's clearly like it's it's just a someone took a phone picture of a paper book they're holding open. It's clearly like a a idea per day kind of thing you know like a meditation. Day. And people. By the way, I want to preface this trigger warning the word God is going to be in here. Anyone who's listened this podcast for any length of time knows that I'm a committed atheist I'm also very spiritual but you know please just know that when I read God here the way I see it is just my understanding of the idea that I am not in control of everything in the universe that there is a power greater than myself. I don't believe it's a monotheistic a bearded deity who is also is on dad who judges everybody but also loves them. You know. It's just it's just a greater understanding point in in in the word God and sobriety. Is it a god of each person's own understanding? So it? Could be your understanding. But also if you have a problem with the word, God, don't let that. Bother you when you listen to the thing I'm about to ask kind of my point. So here's the thing. I think it's lovely. It says. How many days do we wake up feeling hateful and unlovable, and we sometimes choose to stay in that place the whole day. Instead we can at any moment, decide to remember God and the love that's available to US unconditionally. Our own harsh attitude will diminish with each thoughtful meditative moment. How insane is that? We sometimes prefer spirited side when are loving self is far more accessible. Klis, but it always takes mental and emotional energy to keep our meanness stirred up. Many of us came into the program. That's AAA many of us came into the program certain. We weren't capable of loving others. Deserving of love ourselves. That's true. I felt like that. But as others accepted us no matter what our moods or deeds right? unconditionally. We were one over and began to believe we were worthy of love and now we confirm our worthiness to ourselves with each loving gesture. We make to someone else I. Love that. Isn't that wonderful? I love the idea of confirming our love for ourselves by giving love to others isn't that just the best thing I mean we`re kind of talking about like the. Writ large that's within the twelfth of the twelve steps. Right this idea that you give it away to keep it. This idea that being of service to another person at its core is an active service and love to yourself. It's a way that you can reinforce in yourself. The good parts of yourself as a human you know to give it away to keep it. They say, yeah, lots of sayings. Just thinking about that in terms of the conversation, we're having prior about how we how we view the value of humans, our society too and like. You know it's interesting like I think when we when we fight for things like you know. Healthcare for people and. You know Housing and sure you know basic. Protection, the things that we can offer each other that to take care of each other in the most basic of ways, food shelter healthcare. All things. When we when we activate to to to offer those things to other people we are validating our own. We are firming our own deserving of those things. Also, you know what I mean like our own essential humana exactly, and so can we start thinking about how we organize ourselves and how we take care of each other from that frame you know and you know look the opposite I think is also true that that you know when we're stuck in a place where we we are full of shame or we don't. See Ourselves as valuable. We we adopt often a posture in those moments of wanting to withhold good things from other to. Precisely where while how are you going to pay for? It comes from exactly exactly scarcity mentality just flip that on its head and be like a people that takes care of each other as a way to affirm for ourselves our own intrinsic value yeah. How `bout that also simply say sue simple simple I haven't idea. Let's take a break because we get back. We've got a few different things to talk about their all loosely related to politics even though this is not hear me not a political gas and also if you're me not loosely related, they're all directly about politics. We'll take a short break. I will go pee. We'll be right back. We're back back. I'm so excited because as soon as we finish this podcast my personal reward is going to be to have my first piece of candy from our Halloween Candy. Bowl. Sitting here in the living room next to us, we obtained Halloween Candy people might get a reese's peanut butter cup? Yeah. That might be what I have is my reward when we're done I'm thinking maybe you'll have a mini twix and Laffy Taffy and all. Anything. You know and it's funny people lake. We're not planning to like give out candy at the door I. think that would be a public health hazard. To set, we're doing it Halloween concert. We'll be down in the basement we will not you're knocking really this is just for us, but we went we went yesterday to the grocery and we shop for Halloween Candy as seriously as if we're going to have a little ghosts and goblins coming four, it's always really just I. Would I. I really feel like we have good taste candy because every year all the kids remember south passing like. We would hear this is the so good. We would hear kids coming up to our front door and like, and then we'll be talking to each other and we literally heard kids telling other kids. This is the good house. Feels Good House for the Good House? A six year old a five year old. During So. Great. Love. It So politics, this is the second half of the Po- we've got twenty when this podcast comes out there will be twenty days left until the election and a few days when like a few days So I remember it was back when there were two months left. Until the election when I'm like okay I've been saying I'm going to volunteer to help the effort. Now's the time. So it we've been volunteering for the last forty days. and and we haven't been doing it every day. But in the last forty days, we've done our volunteer work and It's been really good. We Toward the beginning of all that like one of the first things that I signed up for. Just happened to be a sort of a non traditional phone banking effort, which were as we were GONNA be part of the voter protection team in Wisconsin to recruit people to be pulled workers and poll observers. Scott isn't going to be part of the team at that point, we were just like calling on behalf of a team, right? Like Allure Range Shift to recruit folks to do that work in Wisconsin. But that like sort of like happenstance that's where we landed I sort of like lettuce on this trajectory where we're doing almost exclusively work for this team now and we're part of that team now. We've gotten promoted twice in the last two weeks Jamie would like a membership card please. I don't even I don't even need it because I have access to the DNC. Database I I have write access to the DNC database, for Wisconsin, it's. Certain levels, but still we'll take it. It's amazing because we can actually do stuff. That's like really helpful and like we can get inside some of like how this works it's incredibly complicated Rad Shannon I are super volunteers. They've given us a tie I think that's a it's an ego boosting title they've given us. Yet me stop it some more I know where's my Cape. So you know. Aside, from being fun and cool to be sort of like have gotten a couple of promotions in our volunteer voter protection team I wanted the reason I wanted to talk about that is that we've been doing these these calls At this level what we're doing is we're kind of like sealing the deal with people who have said, yes I WANNA be a poll observer is now and so we're we're talking to folks who have already said yes and so helping them get signed up for trainings for the the dress rehearsal of you know how to use the the APP on election day to contact anyone if there's any trouble at the polls, you know like where we're helping get all that stuff sort of in place for people, and so the result is that we're talking to folks who have. committed. To volunteering themselves to show up in person to work, you know observing polls making making sure everything's going as it should be on election day, and so the phone calls were getting to how people are just like every single person that I talked to today was just fired up, they're ready to go. To hear from us, and like you know and I felt so encourage the last couple of days of phone calls made for this effort I, just WanNa share with you guys listening like being you know having these phone calls with people and hearing the number of people there are. Lots of people. WHO ARE SHOWING UP PHYSICALLY On a land democ on election day and in early voting days to make sure this election goes smoothly in just the state of Wisconsin. And we're part of this tiny little team of of the larger effort that's happening in Wisconsin, which is just one state of all the states where this work is happening and which is fifty fifty. But what I'm saying is like even in our little corner of what we're doing and we're seeing the enthusiasm, the numbers, the the just feel so encouraged that so many people are stepping up to work for the outcome that we need. So encouraged by that, you know there are plenty of reasons to be freaked out all the time about what's happening in the news and like some stupid thing that some stupid leaders said you know like. You know there's there's reasons to be freaked out time I get that and I and I am too. But add to that diet this this note of encouragement. This like that, there are people really turning out to to make sure that this election goes the way we needed to know that that in your little heart. I'm walking forward and also don't get cocky. For sure. You know what I mean. We've got twenty days left people like here's the thing. If we wake up November fourth and God forbid the election didn't go the way we wanted to go will you feel good about the amount of work the you've put into making that not happen and if the answer is no first of all, the answer is, yes, that's freakin awesome. Keep it up. So proud of you and let us know how we can support you. And second of all the answers. No, this is your time. Well, here's the thing I think that you know and. I'm included in this category of people that have imagined. Describe I have been a person who has thoughts in the past that lake well kept my vote and the rest of it's really up in the air and there's nothing I. Can do about it to affect the outcome. That's not true. Untrue. There's lots that. Can Do to be involved and I. Know that you know we started this let saved democracy group on facebook. We'd love to have you join us if you want to become a volunteer these last twenty days facebook dot com slash groups slash. Let's save democracy. Thank you very much but there are people who have been doing letter writing postcard writing text banking I hear is like Super Rewarding, and fund do I've not done it myself but but there are people In our group who have shared resources about the text banking that they've been doing really great phone banking vote chasing phone banking, which is the kind of you know. I also used to think that phone banking for elections meant that I was Gonna get on the phone and have to convince somebody to vote for the candidate I want the suing undecided volcano. That's not at all. What it is what it is is it's calling likely Democrats in this case because we're hoping for. You know. And and just making sure that they have registered to votes and that if they want to early vote that they know how to do that and making reminding them to make a plan of it like it's making sure that they actually get registered, help you and get their ballot helping them get their vote in and counted. Yes. So it's IT'S Stuff about voting it is just helping people get the job done, and so it's not about convincing anybody. It's not about arguing with anybody. It is just coming alongside folks who need a little nudge and being the person's nudge. Or sometimes just being the person who's there with a helping hand rate when they need I can't tell you how many times especially the vote chasing stuff. Yeah. I've talked to somebody and even with the calls you're making the day. Said something along the lines of Oh. My Gosh I'm so glad you called I can't figure out the answer to this question. Can you help me? Yeah and I can help them right? Right because we're GONNA have to with people like the thing any fun banking, any text banking anything you do people, you have eighteen leaders, someone who is employed to do. This thing and they know all of the resources and anything that any person you're talking to you needs to know they can just tell you the answer immediately and you can talk to that person it'll be like, oh my gosh thank you. That's the one thing I needed to know holding you back and now I can do. Yeah. So you know that. It's not just about voting and then like hands up in the air I guess the rest is just going to happen. It's going to happen. No, no no, there are twenty days left in which you can actually get involved in helping to get the outcome that we need. There is more that you can do besides just votes and so if you are interested in doing that please just contacts one of us you can find us on on social media I'm you can email me at s k. c at Shannon Curtis. Dot. Net I'm happy to help you Jamie is at. Jamie at secret agent audio, Dot Com and or you can just go to our facebook group facebook, dot com slash groups slash. Let's save democracy and you can request to join that group just answer the questions member of questions, and then we'll get you in there and get you hooked up voting is not the end of the conversation. It's the beginning really I mean for sure your individual vote is literally the least you can do it's not the it's not the apex of your contribution to democracy. It's the smallest thing you can do right and even then some people don't do that. Right Click statistically speaking a full half of the people hearing my voice right now just won't manage to get their shit together and vote which is remarkable. Better than that people. Hey you know I read somewhere today that over twelve million people have already cast their ballots in this election, which is an astonishing, the high number for early voting unprecedented it me by a factor of like ten or twenty or something. It's ridiculous. Do you think people are ready to be done with what we've been putting up with I? Think so and I hope. So let's keep our foot on the gas. Hey. So last week, there was the The vice presidential debates that happened after our Kim last week. So we watched it and. Certainly was like very different than the presidential debate that week before which was a traumatic experience. You. Know with all of the just oh horrible abusive behavior. That's what it was. It was abusive behavior. One by contrast was I mean here's the word everyone was using to describe it was quote civil unquote. Or. More normal right and honestly like okay that's fine like my blood pressure didn't rise quite as high as it did the week before with the presidential debate but here's the thing. If someone's lying to you, it doesn't matter if they're doing it civilly abusively they're still lying to you. You know if there's still an in some ways is more damaging when they're doing under the veneer of normalcy you know and and more dishonest right Mike pence sat there the entire time and like his answers were just. Lie. After lie after lie but says it but he says it in this. Don't you you trust me I'm speaking with a soft voice you know and I'm and matter of fact that I've got these very concerned looking is. So, I'm GonNa lie to you and you're going to believe me and you know people in any political debate, there's going to be true stretching there's going to be talking points. There's to be stuff that like the fact Tucker later lick that's not quite right right but there's a difference between that and what vice president pence was doing a pretty literally every single thing that came out of his mouth was just a lie. Yeah, it was. Really Really Weird I. Mean it was way past the line of disinformation right and it was a sort of abuse in and of itself right? I, mean it was really much more on the gas lighting side. Looking someone right in the eye and telling them don't believe the things that you know to be true. Yeah. Believe me. Yeah. Yeah. It was really like that's not that if that's our normal, we have a long frigging. Yes we do. Well, I, think that that's one of the things that you know if trump has done us any kind of a service it is that he's bl he blew the he blew the top off of that cover. You know where they were folks used to be able to get away with like saying those lies in a calm voice. Kept her cool and he doesn't have any cool. He just use spews abuse and so like it becomes obvious but we've got to to a tuner I years is to leg being able to to recognize what's what's true and what's not. And, and also to not fall into this trap of the gold being that things ought to be civil. Civility civility only serves the status quo to be frank with you like. To be civil, you know. That's not that's not to say that things need to be. Lake tumultuous either like or or dramatic dramatic right like like but but civility for the sake of civility is not going to do any of us. Any good. It's not going to make any progress that we need. To heal our country to heal ourselves derek, shelvin was the picture of cool and collected as he knelt on George. Floyd's neck. He didn't break a sweat smiling and that really if there's a better metaphor for how the civility of the ruling class like is strangling all of us who live under I'm not sure what it would be. Yeah. You know I know that especially in this like super traumatic time it's also very tempting to like you know hearken back to the good old days when. Members of different parties could. Could you know socialize together and be friends and you know we see pictures of people who of you know different political views. chumming it up together and wouldn't that be nice to have that happen again and okay sure. Maybe that will be nice. But also like that's not the goal like we what we have is a situation in which there has been one party who has been systematically trying to hold onto the last shreds of power. As they see, it's slipping out of their hands for the last several decades and they're they are showing us they will go to. To all link. Available to them to hold onto that power even if it means leaving. Current virus relief you know. Out back somewhere, not going to be taking this bill to help people actually get relief in this time. You know even if it means stepping all over our democracy, you know you. Committing voter suppression and you know like the governor of Texas making there be like one ballot dropbox for the entire county where Houston is and that county has more people in the state of Oregon. You know that is voter suppression the lines we saw. In Georgia yesterday that's it's not admirable to see people waiting in line eleven hours to vote. That's voter suppression. I mean, it is admirable that they stood there, but they shouldn't have to. They're having testimony will to like a Americans endurance in grit it is in some measure but was mostly what it's a testimony to is voter suppression. Yeah. It takes a lot of effort to create a system that makes people wait eleven hours in line to vote. People just so you know by the way, it's not that they don't have the resources. There are voting machines in those counties that are sitting locked up in a warehouse purposely not deployed because they want people to wait that long because they don't want him to vote teas. Here's. We've you know civility. And and chumming it up with a party that's just doing really whatever they can to hang onto power. Is. A moral, it's not the goal to be civil the somebody who is who is a disenfranchising people left and right and clinging to power at all costs, asking the at an and in doing. So causing major suffering in the lives of American people expecting. Expecting. Suspecting you to be civil to someone who is not treating you respectfully isn't itself before of gas lighting, right? Right. Right. Yeah. UNSCREW that yeah and again, it's not to say that that the goal is incivility right? The goal is for both parties to be worthy of respect to be worthy of civility right to civilities earned like you don't just get respect by showing up someplace you get respect by acting in a respectable way right. So how about instead of like yearning for the time when party people from different parties can just get along how `bout we yearn for leaders that actually work for us how about we? In fact, how about we yearn for a fucking thing? Instead, we actually do the work. Know. Isn't doing. God. Damn thing. It's true. Yes. Yeah. The thing that I thought was maybe important to talk about because it's been in the news ally conversation a lot and I'm gonna I'm GonNa say this this phrase one time, and then I'm going to commit myself to not saying this phrase because I think this phrase needs to be abolished from our vocabulary is right now get really mad when you say I don't even know what know that phrase is the phrase court packing I'm sure you've heard this phrase in news because they can't help themselves but say it over and over again we'll Joe. Biden. Not Packing. The. Heart. Rate. And here's the thing with that like I just felt it was important to kind of address this. Yeah I think you're right There's this notion that you know if if Amy Coney, Barrett is approved on the Supreme Court. Probably she probably will be she probably shouldn't be she definitely should. But she probably would be that you know assuming Democrats take the White House and the Senate. And the house wouldn't matter some well, actually maybe would better for this, I don't know. Maybe, size keep going. Yeah. That that come twenty, twenty, one that they would. What I will now from here on in call rebalancing remains the courts. Because here's restoring democracy, how about that restoring balance and restoring democratically like balanced valid. Exactly. Because here's the thing that I think a lot of folks you know th the it is not in the constitution that there ought to be nine justices on the Supreme Court. The Constitution does outline the number of justices that should be on the Supreme Court and indeed it's changed the number of times it has changed the last time it changed in any sort of. Official way was like eighteen, sixty, nine or something like that. It's been a long time, but it's it's it's largely been nine justices since then except for in the year two, thousand, sixteen when it was eight for over a year because Mitch McConnell refused to even take a meeting with the justice that Barack Obama had nominated to fill an empty seat on the Supreme Court. So these people who are using that word that phrase I'm not gonNA use anymore accusing Democrats of wanting to do something so drastic As rebalanced the court and say and change the number of people quite Mitch. McConnell. Changed the number of people on the Supreme Court just two years ago of. Three three or four years ago when he refused to seat or have hearings for Merrick Garland. At and in addition to that it has been It's been an agenda that Republicans have had for decades to a seat people who fit their worldview, their political view in the courts, not just the supreme, court but just all up and down the you know the levels of of the federal bench weird like Democrats tend to eat moderate judges and Republicans tend to seat. Extreme right-wingers, right? Well, it's been a concerted effort. There's this thing called the federalist society, which this is a group of people who have committed themselves to originalism in you know and we've talked back decades we yes we talk about this as though it's like some like legit you know old school. Judicial theory or something it was really. Kind of pumped up and became a thing back when in the in the in the sixty s but the whole point was that this the that that that. There was a certain a part of the Republican. Party that wanted they didn't they were they were they were getting annoyed with all these regulations like you know making art making carmakers put seatbelts in cars and making cigarette companies actually talk about the health detriments of smoking cigarettes. You know these pesky little regulations were getting in the way of business being able to do business the way they wanted to profit the way they wanted to. Of course, these regulations that are put in place to actually you know protect human lives, people anytime you people anytime. You hear the word regulations substituted in your mind with the word protection you go. Let's let's stop using the R. Word and using the P. Word instead right. Exactly so you know the the whole point of this exercise that Republicans have been on for decades and trying to get the these originalist type. Justices appointed to courts is is for the sole purpose of increasing corporate power. So if you WANNA live in a world where corporations decide what's best for everybody then that's your team. But if you WANNA live in a world where we have a system that supports the dignity of humanity that that actually supports you know human rights and that that that is designed around the ideas of taking care of each other way Shannon I thought the Republican Party, stood for personal freedoms what eat me. It just sounds to me like what you're saying is actually with the Republican, Party stands for is corporations. Exactly the opposite of personal freedom. Yes. Well Yeah. Again, they're lying to you with a straight face. So see. Let's do more statistics. So it's a couple more stats. So since Nixon Democrats have appointed four justices to the Supreme Court and Republicans have appointed a fifteen justices to the supreme court that's over the last fifty years precise. That sounds kind of imbalance. It's imbalanced and let's drill down specifically on recent history in the last twenty years. Shannon. Can you tell me in the last twenty years? How many? Republican presidents have there been in the last twenty years of a Republican. How many of those Republican Presidents Shannon entered office. The Popular Vote Zero yes. Zero. How many Supreme Court justices now this is a tricky one. Okay. Did those to Republican president so far appoint to the Supreme Court was the answer it's five Shannon that is five. Highly Conservative Supreme Court justices. Time Lifetime appointments in the last twenty years by people who did not win the popular vote by people who put a different way were elected to the office of President by a minority of the people in the country. Boy. If you WANNA talk about the ultimate like anti democratic you WanNa talk about P. Word you WANNA talk about that bad thing with the where you manipulate the courts core pack yeah. Right. If you WANNA talk about actual court packing, it's using minority rule to enshrine your point of view that's core backing. Javy. Thank you. Here's another little bit of data on this. Also, we're while we're talking about it over the last Also twenty years I believe memory serves there have been gop. Of GOP efforts to change the size of state Supreme Courts Twelve states until states this thing that they're canceling hoarder of the continental United States and. And two of those were successful meaning that in two states, they actually did change the size of the Supreme Court. That changed the number of states, seats on the State Supreme Court to redistribute the balance of power toward their site. Right? Right. So get the fuck out. and. Here's the thing like I i. You know I I. I'm annoyed that this is that this is the the conversation you know because honestly you know. It's the wire, you hitting yourself a political conversation because media cannot help themselves but take the bait when Republicans just WanNa talk about this you know forbidden word. The re they don't want to talk about the rebalancing of the court. Meanwhile the trump administration didn't even gop rather didn't even bother to put forth the platform at all for this reelection like they have no platform except for we support trump. But people to China's not just like blowing off steam. That's literally literally true. They don't have a plan for healthcare. They don't have a plan for for the Krona virus pandemic. Plan for. Education for. Everything train relations state depart all of those things none of it. There's no platform meanwhile were the conversation has to be about this whole rebalancing of the court and frankly I i. do hope that the that we do rebalance the court in two, thousand, twenty, hundred we ought to we need to we're working with a tremendously outdated conception of what the Supreme Court should be as Shannon mentioned earlier the last time it was changes in the eighteen sixties that doesn't sound like it's been optimized for modern needs. Right. So let's normalize the idea that. That that democracy by design that this, this beautiful constitution of ours allows for us to modify things as we need to modify them as time marches on. And we need to harness all of that if we want to save. Democracy itself Hell Yeah. That's it. That's all I have to say about the courts. Good. Great. Let's never speak of them again. It. Just seems like it was in the news and it was it's all over the place and if you're on social media, you know. When we talk about the Supreme Court in this in this country, it seems to be that the conversation always goes back to abortion rights and gay rights, and those are very very important questions shore and you know I I don't have. Any misconception about the notion that Barrett. Should she be seated on the court will vote against abortion rights and she will vote against gay rights I. believe that that's what she will do. And that alone is a is a reason to US to rebounds the courtroom we get the chance to do that but you know that aside I honestly think that those issues are raised as red herrings all the time because the real goal is corporate power. That's that's the real goal of the Republican Party but they can throw these red meat issues out here about abortion rights and gay rights that they think can whip up their base of support. You know that is true which is true but it is honestly, it is a red herring for their their their main goal of consolidating corporate power in the United States and Let's not fall for it. We don't have to fall for it. We don't have to fall. Yeah I mean if you if you look at like what is important like the most Ideologically on the nose Prima court decision of probably the last twenty years since united. giving. Corporations. Unchecked. Spending power in elections like that is the core. That's the essential. Lake beating heart little black tiny beating heart of what's at the center the Republican Party. This idea that corporations have absolutely unlimited power and should be able to do just whatever the hell they want, and if you're wondering why your life is getting worse, you're wondering why you're working harder and your paycheck is stagnant. Even if you're working at a high level job, like, why are you making more money? Why aren't you getting five percent ten, percent twenty percent raise your company's five, ten, percent twenty percent more why aren't using that People who are working minimum wage jobs earning the same wage in a Lotta cases as they were twenty years ago. Like if you're wondering why your healthcare keeps getting more expensive in worse why you keep having housing issues like it's because of the corporate wing of their party, which is kind of redundant because really there's there's not been much else to it like. I think that they're honestly was like when you and I were very, very little kids. You know a genuine sort of small government conservatism thing you know I remember that from the late seventies, vaguely people talking about that kind of thing that just seems all gone. Now there's there's not really any kind of. Even pretends to moral core anymore well, and I mean I I I question myself whether that was actually real time too. Because this effort to corporate ties, the United States and give corporations power has been on the agenda for these folks since before you were born so true it makes me question whether even that feel good thing you just described was ever ever actually a thing. Well, yeah. The small government thing was right lake they used to try to decimate bureaucracies but now it's just like screw it. Let's make ice. Let's make right in border patrol while decimating other bureaucracies that don't serve their purposes like you know decimating Resources for for healthcare childcare and education, and I mean they food support report the budget for education all the time you know so like. Yeah, yeah for so yeah, let's let's. Bring this back around to that feel good moment at the first part of the podcast for the break where we talked about how if we want to we could actually organized a society. The takes care we were. We take care of each other as a way to affirm our own intrinsic value as humans that is something we can have we're going to have to work for it, and there are forces allied against that that have a lot of power currently, and they have a lot of money. But we have people. The people are showing up in in tremendous ways right now and you are not one of those people who are as yet showing up now is the time to do it and and we would love to help you get involved in working. You know for this election. This election again is not the end point. nope we don't get a bow wrapped up on everything on. November four. Important inflection point it really is, but the work will continue even after this to build the kind of of society that we want and that we deserve. Crazy right. So people if you want to get involved in volunteering election related volunteering, please join us at facebook dot com slash groups slash. Let's save democracy. If you want to support the work that Shannon and I are doing in the world which currently has a whole shitload of electorally volunteering but it's also all the mentorship stuff we've been talking about all that stuff do that misfit stars dot com slash join thank you for that and if you just want a good time. Tune in to our facebook live acoustic concert on Sunday October Eighteenth at seven PM Pacific ten PM Eastern. Yes. Jamie's going to be playing piano. Singing like a little bird. This set list is currently being voted upon by misfit stars community and it's GonNa be a great night. So come join us on facebook that's facebook dot com slash Shannon. Kay. Curtis be there at the appointed time seven West Ten east and just wait for the live video to appear and just watch it until I got to do there. Then chiming in chat and type the folks who were there, and if you want to help the set list, you get to do that by signing up of misfit stars dot com slash join and please do that we could use it. Awesome. What do you think I? Think we've talked forever. We should get the hell. This thing I'm going to edit it will put her out in the World Noriko. Music sounds good and I'm gonNA. Go Hudson. The A heck. Yeah. Obviously I didn't WanNa say the obviously I'm GonNa have. Halloween candy then I'm GonNa edit the podcast. y'All, thanks so much for listening. We love you guys see again next week.

Shannon facebook Jamie United States EP Taylor Taylor Shannon Curtis Wisconsin Shannon misfit La Patriot community Tacoma America Devon Burke Australia Shannon Walker Lansing Michigan Kennedy
Blending Families and Faith

If These Ovaries Could Talk

41:28 min | 8 months ago

Blending Families and Faith

"This episode is brought to you by modern fertility. We're happy to have them on board making the show a possibility. Welcome to if these could talk. I'm gene I'm Robin. We're your host talk the Pot Sto- I am a lesbian. So we need to tell our stories not your nuclear family anyway such as your Mama Dot Com for not earning out for the game show. Hi everybody if you could only see us right now. God chimneys under a blanket and social distance down also. We are having difficulties like so many unstable Internet. She's now using a hotspot off. Wife's phone with headphones were last can not only that but I have to write a With my daughter from school assignment is crazy. Running my daughter's doing poetry to she has such a problem with like literal translations of things like trying to find text evidence. I don't know the water's running in his veins. It's something it's that. Just put that down eight. It's so hard year old and poetry. Come on no. Let's see later not may be a teacher. Stay at home. My that's my learnings from rotavirus times. I shouldn't say Crow Virus Times. I should say from Social Distancing Times. Um Sir you know. There's a lot of sad stuff happening. I don't WanNa take away from that. I know well we had one thing in our news. I had a fun thing. We did this weekend. It was kind of out of the blue and off the cuff off the cuff. All upset Robin texts me coming over with a microphone for you and I was like in my head. I was like wait a second chicken. Who was supposed to be social distancing? What is she talking about? And Jerry's got the big house with a yard so I was like I'm coming over. I'm going to drop the microphone at like six feet away from you. WanNa throw it at you and brought my daughter and my daughter was like mom. There is a Gazebo back. She was going on about their big yard. And A and then we sat outside six feet away from each other and just went like this. Oh so we did. We had a cocktail. We had a cockpit that we had a social distance Tail are made sure that I washed down all surfaces so we really didn't touch and then we were like paroling after on the way home and I asked an was bad thing we just did was. I think it's fine. It's fine I mean we're in week. What eight my God eight hundred? We didn't get close for God. Sakes we wear masks on the way over. You know it's fine. It's it's have a really big yard of this house. It's kind of amazing like this ever jealous so jealous I was just like there's a grill I was like eating outside and then the to come category. Yeah but there hasn't been nice weather so we haven't taken advantage and I was like shut up with your ticket advantage and housing really cold but I do have to say having you come and at Marvel at it and maybe go back to appreciating it again because I kinda got in this lab. The place you get. You're just tired of it all in Atlanta and God. The kids running outside and under no gate. But you made me appreciative side. The second I came home tell Mary all about it was like Mary. I was like their grill. We would be sitting out. There is a school across the street. It's like amazing and it's like this colic with like people were all up bike riding and walking six feet apart. I was like A. It's like the movies. It's like a neighborhood in the movies. I've never lived in Pleasantville. It's crazy right. I have never didn't think this really existed. It's like really it's the colic and then Orion kept calling me. Grandma thous my favorite part of the whole thing. I started calling him grandma back and he got very confused by that. That was fun. Yeah Yeah but you're going to hear. That was amazing. Oh God I got to see each other for that. We sure did that was nice because we have not seen each other since February. We have seen anyone. We've seen eight million zoom calls of each other but we haven't seeing one another February wet all hair well. We have two new members to our patron community. Angela in jest. Thank you for joining us. And welcome and we. WanNa tell people if you want to join our Patriot community right Jamie. We got all kinds of bonus content. We're talking videos. And Swag you get some swag for joining and what you know depending on the level and you just gonNA head over to Patriot dot com slash talk. That's a T. R. O. N. And even putting unedited ad for videos of some of our interview moves at the station carrier level. That's the level you're going to want to sign up for if that's what you're interested in. I just need to tell you that my daughter's bedroom right now and I'm sweating. It is so hot in here. Just had project down so I don't know this is going to be brutal this summer. Art Big bigger fish to fry. Okay let's get to our guests. Yes let's talk about Ashley and Amy. They were actually. We found them from our Patriot community. They join paycheck. Yeah thanks to them and really tell us your story and all of a kidding me. I'm like you got to be on the show with a story. So we brought him on lake. We do likely there. That's how you get on this show. All you have to do is send us an email. It is really be like to come on. Come on show you because everyone's stories so amazing you know. There's nobody that I'm like. Well that's a dumb story like it's like they're all amazing unique interesting stories and it's like I love that we just get to highlight them and I'm glad that they gender Patriot community and we found them. Actually Amy and that. They're willing to tell their story. No you know going to find it. Trained it helpful. I think should we. We have our imaginary producer. Helen roll the tape. All roll the tape. Helen Hi I do thank you for coming. Thanks for having US. Thanks for videoconferencing in while we all socially isolate good to see you in your home the season to be here still. Yes where are you before we do the elevator pitch where you guys? Where do you live? We live in Nashville Tennessee. Okay I think that's GonNa play a partner discussion. I can't wait all right. Let's do the elevator pitch about your family and your relationship thirty S. Are you guys? Ready Gopher Ashley. Starting on your mark get set. Go actually okay we are Ashley and Amy. We're mothers of three children. All within three years of each other a blended family. I guess that's it. That's US Senate shop. Wow that was like the fastest. Elevate by the way culminated twelve seconds. I didn't even need the thanks a lot. More to this story that we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA get into. Fortunately we have a podcast in time. So let's get into nowhere to go three children. Wow yes within three years yes. We had up until this past week. We had a seven year old six year. Old and five year old does seven and six year old just turned seven and eight within five days of each other. Wa. That's like my house. My daughter just turned eleven in in a week and a half my son's going to nine. You guys seem so young to have three to just look very young at the compliment. Thank you three children. I did have them when I was twenty five so I was young by today's standards. So yeah for so. Actually you had all three okay. Let's flip delve Delvin here. How did that all happen? Well I was married. Previously will man to a man and I had my oldest. I was three months pregnant when I found out or three months. After she was born I was pregnant with my son Lhasa Field. What is that like? Was it happy? Feels on your would imagine I don't know how yes. It got too happy. There are a lot of feelings around. The he was he was when I got pregnant with the youngest. They're the older two were still one into when she was born. Wow everybody was in diapers. Everybody yes oh yeah Under three for awhile while that go it was a blur. It's still. It's a black nurse at the same time. The ED at the end of the other one is just an IRO triplets. Basically pretty much and I was a single mom starting like two or three months after my youngest was born so out take through that it was just a very bad marriage relationship. I got pregnant and then those like well. Let's do the right thing here. I live in the South Group in a pretty religious family so I did that whole song and dance where I did the right thing and I think it also stemmed from you know. I grew up for a little bit without those like. Let me do right by my kid. I didn't know notice wear girl at the time. There's just thing that never should have been for a lot of reasons and then it was. It wasn't I mean that's the longest shortest But did you know you were gay? Wait I don't know if you use the word gay or phrase gays on. Did you know you were maybe to amy? I didn't I guess honestly by the time I got married and I was pregnant in the night. I had my daughter shortly after there wasn't a hot time for introspection reflection of any kind of Yet right I think prior to getting married. Yeah I always knew on some level you add. Did you do experimenting in High School like some? Yeah I mean a friend but it you know it was like I don't know it was just one of those things you can do. I mean I hate to say this is just like mindlessly. Like on autopilot. It's like you know you get pregnant. You get married. You live the American dream. You followed the set mold. That was kind of hands down to you. Basically absolutely did their religion stuff have to do with that as well. You think yeah and the beginning for sure it did and then it was like the my kid's father was a person who like you know everybody in the Church was like? Oh you're so lucky. Like a guy really tired of hearing how lucky I was like. Yeah it was just like you're so lucky this is the great and I mean this is something. I've done a really good job since the doors of not talking about because of how it will affect my kids but it was a very abusive in like not good situation and relationship so I turned out to not be as lucky as everyone thought. Yeah but you know. It's just one of those things that's like a like everyone's telling me people who I've known my whole life trust in my whole life. Everyone's telling you this is a really good thing so I should. I feel like this is a really good thing but you know that's not how I felt. Now sorry yeah. That's awful. Thank you sir. How did you all meet? I mean that's a right turn. You know into passing head known each other as acquaintances. Do you WanNa talk some. I mean I was I was previously married and we also man no to women. Okay yes you're gay. Yeah I grew up with yes sir. Oh Yeah so through my ex wife. I had met actually for many years. I guess I'd say like acquaintances because again see the part had kids under three right but the whole must be part him all this. Her ex wife was part of his old friend group that I grew up with at the church that I went to and like so we get together at least once a year this whole group of friends. And that's probably pretty much longtime that you and I were to the interacted and I mean my my ex wife thousand only relationship. I came out and he just a couple of years ago four years ago and she's my only relationship I was Kinda felt like was ugly duckling my entire life and then I always most gay and Reuben Religious House and I just thought that she was the only person that would ever like me and so got married and it just wasn't good it was it was very controlling and manipulative relationship and it needed end and so we got a divorce and the very package stupid on can ask. How were you guys married? We were I mean we were together like four or five years but we were only married for about a year. Okay so you said you came out for years ago you might. You had come out for years before you so I came. I mean it was like a secret that I was dating my ex wife for like two years into our year and a half into our relationship. No good comes from that. But that's hard. Yeah Yeah I mean. There's like a substantial age gap there as the eight year difference between between you and your ax. Yes so then. It was like a thing where I was never I was like I said I wasn't a really around that group too much because I didn't have the time to be and then yet like one night I was like hanging around that again. I was like one of those freak accidents where you get a night to yourself as a single parent so I was at them in. There is just like everyone was like. Oh you know. Have you heard about what's going on the separation period and yeah and? I didn't know that was a thing that was happening. I was out of the loop we started talking about that night just became a more of I guess and then became hang out. There was a thing going on third and someone else wasn't really awesome birth group though it was like so basically the way I came into all this was talking to her about how her ex wife was similar in a lot of ways to my ex husband. We're talking about it. And then she started telling me about. You know what was going on with this other person how it been going on for a few months and it had like was over because of it and she's just trying to figure out how to end it and what to do in how to move forward out of it but it got really must and so she needed a place to stay. It ended up. I was like well. You can just like stay like I have an extra room space. You can stay there until you get your own place. And so that happened and she got her own place. Everything was like normal again but anyway my sister in law was the only one I had really been talking to through the whole process of us kind of like moving towards something more than friends and family guys. Talk to your parents about it. You know you gotTa talk to people about it and I think I'm going to be right now and she's like like laughing and I was like no I'm like right now. She's like well. You're just GONNA call and like yeah. That's what I did. I like hung up with her. I just started calling people and was like you know I mean they knew my family and my friends. Like new of amy because again of her previous marriage in like being part of a group that we were in so I was just like you guys secondly that my was I wrote like a five page single space like coming up process like a how I reconcile my faith with bisexuality just in multiple emails with my mom about like a cow. I can be Christian yards this deal with woody USC facebook posts in panic attack with the whole thing that USA. Hey of gay actually. Would you say you called? Basically there are a lot of rumors flying around the kind of ended up getting just like all convoluted big rumor. That like Ashley. Is this home. Wrecker who destroyed name is marriage and like that's the story floating around so I called parents. I have a brother. Who's thirteen months older than I am? And he's part of that friend group because we grew up with his friends and so he knew all these people very well as well so I called them. I my older brother and my parents and I was like. Hey you guys are GonNa be hearing some stories because at this point I was teaching at the Church and this whole group originates from teaching the school associated with this church. You know her ex wife was making threats that she was going to call the leadership of the Church and have me fired because I was the sole source of income for my three kids. But so I was like I'm done. I'm just done with like I'm not a person who keeps secret so I call my parents and I was like. Hey you guys are GonNa Start hearing some stories and it's like partially true and partially not the partner that is true. Is that amy and I have been spending time together and develop some feelings that are more than friendship and word scene where it goes and they'll how your arentz we're GonNa hear through the Grapevine. This is very tight. Knit Community Mike. Mccurry never hear through the grapevine from my friends. It's a very tightness one word. You could say the like enmeshed dependent. You can feel towards. It's a small town it's a church. Looks like a small town. Yeah Robin. I'd Jimmy Knowledge is power. It is yeah and when you know more you can make better decisions for your body Your Health. Your future yes true. J What does this lifelock? Jamie ticketing do. I have a point. Can that point has to do with fertility which is very fitting because listen. There aren't many decisions bigger than having a child but for many of us especially those of us in the LGBTQ COMMUNITY. Fertility is a big question. Mark Oh okay. I see where you're going. Who He modern fertility right affordable. Way To test fertility hormones at home with something as simple as a finger prick gray mail it in with the prepaid label and you'll get personalized results within ten days. I love me some modern fertility. And I I really do wish had existed when I was trying. So here's what happens with modern fertility. You GET INSIGHT. 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Twenty dollars off the test. When you go to modern fertility dot com slash obt. That means you're test will cost one hundred and thirty nine dollars instead of the hundreds or thousands it could cost at the doctor's office. Sure that you can get twenty dollars off your fertility tests when you go to modern fertility dot com slash. Oh seat Do we now modern fertility dot COM SLASH OCT duet. How how soon did you like you see of the three kids? And how old are the kids at this point to she was my youngest was about to turn three so that would put the other two about to turn five and butts turns so two or four and five three four and five pretty much by the time. It really became like a thing. And how was it like you know because you hear various people talking about how they start dating with kids like did you and right away into the family or how did how did you all navigate that so by that point? I hadn't dated anyone and three years since my divorce. You are busy. You're really busy so it was a bad ridership so I wasn't there for a long time and my kids are in therapy and it was something I was very deliberate about. Cautious about just wanted to handle. I don't want to put my kids anything else. Yeah I'm or myself so I think it just kind of started as like a thing where you know. We were figuring out what it was going to be. We were figuring out what we both wanted it to be in. I've laid her. You know be very deliberate about it as well. I had no problem saying like you know you need to think of this is what you really want like. This is what they would look like like. This is what I want. This is what they need. This is like what we've been like just really. We had a lot of really deliberate talks before we ever talked to the kids. They're always way better with things than you think. They're going to be a feel like it was. It wasn't resilient there's zillion absolutely and I think it was probably the hardest part for me to reconcile not like at Nevis us with like faith partners and bad issues with people who there are several people who I knew within that community who had been married and divorced and had kids and then got remarried to a man. And everyone's like Oh like you know like these post like this is what like God's finally sent me what I've been waiting Fan Night Bob La. And then amy comes into our lives and was a really good thing for me and my kids and everyone's like what about your kids. What are you doing to your kid? And what are the and like a to me like in what world is bringing in another like loving parent. Who wants WHO's committed wants to be there a bad thing right right. You're like where's God's plan now I wanNA take it back to the conversation you had with your parents when you told them when when you came out to them. Essentially what did they say? We need time and space in the night. Didn't hear from them for a long time and I had to reach back out to them and it was a big thing for a long time so you didn't hear from them and they didn't see your kids. Yeah no knows right around. My youngest had just had a birthday in February. Which meant you know? My older twos birthdays were coming out and it was just like they just been a big part of my kids lives until that point. It was a lot of just like what I can't stand which is Kinda like beating around the Bush like they were just like you know it's not it's we don't have a problem like they had a lot of implied. Yeah and also something that drove me crazy about. This whole particular thing was that people were able to conveniently use the excuse of like while you know you guys started something when amy was still married. And that's wrong. And that was kind of like covering the homophobia underneath those kind of like crutch to lean on disguise share what was actually going on at like am super direct person and I can't stand it and so I was just like you know I see. I see what you guys are doing because there are a lot of little things just like we had these family nights that was with my extended family. My Dad's family's Italian. So have this like family. Dinner and slowly we would be like an uninvited. Nothing was ever direct uninvited. We were just like it was just like you know like I didn't get the text of like hey will be here tonight at seven. Come on like just slowly. We're just like we were being left out of things. We were being when amy would come around. Were being left out of pictures or we are being just like you know just things were being. Things were obvious but not said and everything. You can't really push back against if if I did. It was a process. It was definitely a very long process even until our wedding where it was just like. Oh we can't make it to the wedding we don't have like does you know we. We don't believe for fly or we don't so then my brother was like all by guys a ticket and then it was still kind of like well. We'll see if we get time off work like it just was always just kind of like you know and I reached a point where I was like. I'm done because that's how I get like I'm not GonNa ask you guys. Don't want to be part of it. Then don't be but then I guess for my kids. I kind of came to a place. Where like they've lost a lot of people in their lives who they've cared about and I didn't want to give them more loss of my parents could get on board. I wanted to just talk directly with them about it and get a place where they can hopefully still be in my kids lives. And so we've gotten there there. Do you still feel an undercurrent of it today? Or is it better? I think it's better for the most part like there was a point where you know. My my mom was just like well. I'm just trying to protect you like finally when I pushed her to the point of like you did this. You did this. You did this like there's no like however you gonNa tell me that that's not you don't get problem and she's like well. The fact is like seventy five percent of our family has a problem with it. So I'm just trying to protect you from those seventy five percent and I'm like well back to me that doesn't feel like protectionism me like. Yeah if you're protecting me like you know you're inviting me to Thanksgiving and calling the rest of the family deal zag or you're standing up for me right and so we have that conversation and since then it's been I'd said they've They came to the wedding. They did step in the right direction. That something hard though. That's hard my mother-in-law has the tight tight group of friends that she's known since she was like a schoolgirl. And when we were planning our wedding and my wife asked her. So do you want me? Thin imitations to the girls. Why why why? Why would you do that like? Let's keep this could be? Yeah it's like that kind of thing. Which is it's not blatantly in this time of social media which my parents are actually more active on the Nyum. I would say it's like little things it's like. They never made a post about it. And they've made it. They made us about everything there at the wedding but they never posted a picture like made it. Just those little things that like. Let you know like one of those like choose your battles things. It's like am I going to like. Jump down their throats every time you do something with that. No like. What's their own internal shame in reading at their when they get there. Unfortunately I do WANNA say because I know an GONNA listen to this episode. I do WANNA say. Her mother came around and she did say after the wedding. That was the most beautiful wedding she'd ever attended wished she had invited her friends. I WANNA put that out there because her mother mother is wonderful. But that's a that's that's proving it those like they need time like in the same way. We need time sometimes getting comfortable with ourselves. They need more res- they're not in it. Yeah I mean that's the thing I had to to be. Cognizant of was a said to me that they need time because this was all new to them and I had to think you know this is a new to me like this is always something I've known on some level of thought about on some level but I never brought them into that. Yeah it is a thing that people have to wrap their heads around amy. How was it for you to all of a sudden be like do you call yourself a step parent or what like like all of a sudden you're a parent of three children. Yeah they call me like their mom just like they're up their mom and we'll just be randomly somewhere like actually the older to head checkups today. My youngest just loves to just brought up. We have two moms. It's not like obvious to the person I loved it. Yeah so when I was dating actually I mean we'd always talks about like that I like want to be a mom. Wanted to have kids and a before we had ever dated. I didn't know that could be a possibility for me. I wasn't making a lot of money so it was just like a yeah. I guess it's GonNa be expensive. Kid I mean the way the I was parented as it was just like your traditional conservative Christian way of parenting and and I don't parent yes every very new and where you actually treat kids as real people they get. This meant to be seen in that her. Yeah so you I'm twenty eighth or like I mean we were twenty six Dating in definitely how did you do? I duNNo. I watched her she parented. I mean yeah. That's I guess that's giving the latest version of it. She has put in some work of really trying to figure out. You know not just like mimicking me but figuring out why apparent the way I do when my kids were little. I did a lot of attachment parenting type stuff with them. So it's yeah I mean even I have two parent against the not. There's anything wrong with the way I was. Parented or my. I'm a believer in that people. Do the best again with what they have time. So like. You know. It's just trying to be more aware of airs. Ing-wen Amer how parenting and we were opposite. Ships she's bartender. Who Works at night. I'd an early childhood education and work during the day so she is home with the youngest during the day and then now with Corinthian role home but I was. I was still working so she was home with all three of them. You know it would just be like her saying. How would you handle this? That's happening or how should I handle this and so without trying to be like? Here's all this like. I would like refer her to different resources. Like odd cast articles or things like that and you know yeah she was really quick to WanNa read them and get on board and figure it out for his. I mean yeah I mean you just dove right in. That's not easy everyday is like how do I tell like one kid to stop like drinking milk out of a bowl by the back door like a cat? Yes you just let that ring guarantee. That's like something a file. Just Walk Away. You just do one of those like really in the do especially with are going to pick it up and throw. Eh. You're good you're good right. That's your youngest sound. Spunky she as she. I turned on the oven the other night. And there's this horrible smell coming from it and I'm like my God. What is happening now? And she's like Oh mommy remember. We were playing that game. I hit the slime in the oven and I never told you do that now. So outta hates reminded. Don't do slum Cheetahs. She's the that's how it became. Bill here's the thing. She became the fun now. I'm the mean pair. Yeah me too I just say yes everything. You fill the shaving cream. That's the good part is still slow. Clean it up intial doing so. I'm like sure you WANNA do that. Go ahead beauty of our relationships. Our out of the box nontraditional relationships Ashley. You are parenting in a completely different style than you were parented and I think a large part of that is due to the fact that you're living a totally nontraditional right life. And you're you're thinking out of the box in your parenting out of the box and I agree. You know it's it is. It's like even going into our wedding. It was like she had these ideas. And I'm like why would we do that? Why would we? Why are we doing that? Unique water you question everything. All of a sudden like why are we gonNa have my uncle say speech and I don't even like all wires you're gonNA walk you down the aisle to be like think we should do year get a lot of years. No it's been really good for my kids like they. I mean like I said it's like having another parent who's committed and like loving and wants to be there and wants to give their best is never about thing and I think it's given my kids. Love more confidence in a way because before it was just like they were so attached to me because I was there anchor. I was like the person who had let them down. Wasn't going anywhere and it was a lot. It was a lot for all of us and I think it was really good for them to see they can trust other adults. They can trust other parents that can trust and other people and have someone who wants to be there and wants to give that to them and it's really made them a lot more secure. I feel like you both took bad situations and look what you found each other. I love I know. So are you're still in the same tight knit community. If you WANNA call it that that that you're still there right you're still with. We've been exiled. Yes that's what I WANNA know how it's going down the so for me. Those remind those are friends. I'd had my whole life and so for me to just kind of be like yet. This is what this is and talk to everyone about it until like move forward with it was knowing that like those friendships would be not really be a thing anymore. It's just sad to hear that even in This Day and age twenty twenty there are people losing friendships willing to friendship. Phileas this this is not philly but you know what? I mean right right. Yeah it's it is. It's a weird bill to die on you want to do and you guys are. You guys are in Nashville Right. Yeah we are. I mean it's a blue dot and a red state state. Still you know. They don't call it the Bible Belt. We've been intentional about trying to keep the kids in communities. That aren't going to be problematic. So the school they were in before quarantine was a good environment for them but like I said they've always just been really like really great about it like really like proud about it and happy about it. We were we do the conversation starters at dinner sometimes and so one of the conversation. Starters was like what's your favorite holiday. You know our youngest eccentric one. She's like Halloween is she. Loves all things creepy whatever and then the oldest is like Christmas in our son was like my favorite holiday is the Rainbow Parade Day. Oh the off. They've all just been like really good with it and like they never have. They haven't had an issue. I mean I don't feel like we're keeping them in a bubble act still in the picture as dad so sort of wasn't for a long time and then he since has remarried recently and has made more of an attempt. I guess you would say and by sign wants nothing to do with them. He hasn't seen him in like over a year. Just as ops out of going and it's just not a thing. My youngest very rarely goes 'cause she honestly had never really knew a life with him in it so it wasn't a huge loss to her and she's just an opportunist so she's like. Are we going to chucky cheese? Because if yes I'm they're not gonNA stay home and my oldest is. She still tries really hard with him. He doesn't try so hard with her. Here's berry hung up on his relationship with a sign but they couldn't be more opposite like he's very much like you know sports in like all man kind of thing in our son is like Rainbow Bray days my favorite kind of stuff so they just don't see eye to eye and all the things he's my son is very sensitive and he doesn't like anything violent or anything like you hate sports because he says if I played. I just give the ball to the other team and say go. You may score like yeah. I know that's why you'll never. He's like a pacifist is not a relationship that would come easily to either one of them and neither one of them. WanNa put in the work really so it is what it is. I guess yeah I think I gay or straight like divorces hard it is absolutely and you know I mean like my sexuality never played factor in our divorce. It wasn't a thing in so three years after and then he didn't have anything to say about it. Except for like some crass comment like of your women now can I join in just like something like that was the only that was a extent. That conversation really. Yeah but you brought this wonderful loving second mother into these children's yes they're happy. I'm so glad that you reached out to us and joined our Patriot community and then like reached out. Because I was like. Oh my God beyond the podcast to budget did because it's such a grant now. It's funny because we live in the New York double where we don't see it's not that we don't. We don't see homophobe. Guess it but I don't think it's in our day to day also situational because she's from California like Os Angeles San Francisco. I mean I was born in Seattle but of lived here most of my life and my brother and sister-in-law in Seattle. They're surrounded by tons of gay people but when Bush Eager California's she also grew up in a very religious household. Small tight knit religious community so it was very similar to my upbringing here. I think destined to find one as we like to think so. Thank you so much for sharing your story with us. Thank you guys wanted to hear so this was an important podcast to me listening to actually through everything all the questioning people were doing with me of like what about the kids and I was like we have. What about my kids? Should I be worried? He started second guessing myself. Yeah and then I just went looking for many material could find. That was just going to like. Tell me Mike is. We're going to be okay. Yeah and then I started listening unlike like I have a better chance of ruining. Didn't just because of WHO? I am as person than you were like crew robbery ruin you idiots happy. I'm from California crying a little bit on. It was helpful and I. You know that's why I started donating to the podcast. 'cause I'm like this is something that got me through a time when I needed it and if there's other people there's bound to be other people out there who are going to need to hear the same style so this is important thing I love by thank you so thank you guys so Ryan thank you. Oh I love those two to. I'm so glad they found each other and they're making it work. I know it seems like they will just had like a really tough road and it's so nice that they found each other Yeah when that happens puzzle. Pieces connecting any other euphemisms. But I don't have any more mellow well ever. Thanks for joining us. Let's keep the conversation going. You join us on the social. Yeah join us over his talk on twitter over his underscore talk on instagram. If these ovaries talk on facebook and you can also join our private community there and you can talk to other listeners. Which is you can also join our community on Patriot. Peijiang DOT COM slash ovaries talk for bonus content. And now you also subscribe to us on you to to catch up on our arrays talk livestream every Wednesday and Friday at two PM Eastern time. Join the nine other youtube subscribers were up from eight. Jamie up to video just into the our faces at just want that. But you're going to see him if you want all right now you'd see me with my sleeves rolled up. 'cause I'm sweating pretty crappy right now. Thank you to our sponsor modern fertility for helping us make this show possible. We really really really appreciate you there. And for all of you out there social distancing keeping your space stay healthy sting sane. Stay away. Everyone wash your hands. Don't touch your face. Don't touch your face to face and thank you for putting up with our sound issues going to get better soon or when we get back together we're going to be back to our breeding and it feels so good for it robbery goes. That's that's all I had this great I don't think it was nice. View that Jamie. Let's let's wrap this up at all right eggs. Ovaries out back over these.

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124 - Dealing With People You Dislike

Secular Buddhism

28:31 min | 11 months ago

124 - Dealing With People You Dislike

"Hello and welcome to another episode of the secular Buddhism. Podcast this is episode number one hundred and twenty four. I'm your host Noah Rochetta and today. I'm going to talk about dealing with people that you don't like as always keep in mind. You don't need to use what you learn from Buddhism to be a Buddhist you can use it to learn to be a better whatever you already are so today's podcast. Episode comes from the request of an email. I received someone asking me if I would be willing to do an episode where I discussed the idea or the concept or give tips on. How do we deal with people that we don't like and I thought that would be a good idea especially during this time Where you know the way social media works. We're all dealing with people that we don't like and perhaps if it's not people that we don't like it's ideas that we don't like But it's I. It seems to be a prevalent thing and I'm trying to shift a little bit of the concepts of the podcast towards a little bit more of a hot as all this apply every day day to day scenario. So this is my My approach at this specific topic. Like how does how do these concepts and ideas that we learn about in Buddhism apply to everyday scenarios like Dealing with people that we don't like so. I thought that would be a fun way to start off this podcast episode. So first of all though I want to go into the Zenko on that I left in the last podcast episode and this is where among asked South Zoo to teach him and sows. Who asked have you eaten your meal? The monk replied yes. I have then go wash. Your Bowl said zoo at that moment. The monk was enlightened now this Cohen to me Does a really good job of presenting the simple and profound way that Zen Buddhism tries to simplify the the whole point of what we're practicing in what we're doing I want to share a couple of thoughts from people from the Patriot community. Who were we had a discussion around this co on in the last week or week and a half I the first thought comes from Nancy. Who says quote my understanding? Enlightenment only happens when we are fully aware in the present moment no matter what we are doing even washing the dish close quote. I like that thought the Nancy shares were enlightenment. Happens in the present moment and no matter what we're doing even washing the dish. I do think that this definitely alludes to that where it doesn't matter what you're doing you could be out walking the dog. You could be stuck at a traffic light. You could be in the middle of an argument with someone you dislike and these are the the moments where you could notice something that you hadn't noticed before and that moment of awareness can have a A component of I guess you could call enlightenment and that's what this Cohen is trying to point at Like that thought I. I like this additional thoughts from Michael who says quote. The Bowl has served its purpose for the monk. Who used it for his lunch but now the dirty bowl is of no use to the next hungry person that comes along by washing the bowl after he has finished using it for his own purpose he then gives someone else the opportunity to make use of the bowl to nourish themselves the monk could contemplate the someone before him had washed the bowl which allowed him to use to enjoy. Its use close quote. I like that Michael kind of extrapolated out of this the nature of interdependence and how indeed the bowl was there for me to use it. Someone must have clean that before me. And if I'm cleaning it now this will allow another Monka. Some point to also enjoy use of the woollen. I I liked that line of thinking and remember with all of these know. I mentioned this a lot but these Cohen's are meant to get us to look inward so it's what you get out of the Cohen. That really matters. It's it's not about Discovering the the right answer so it's fun to see what other people extract out of these Cohen's that's one of the things that I enjoy by reading the various descriptions and thoughts and feedback that come in on these discussions on the Patriot community. So here's another one from David. He says quote. This Cohen reminds me of something that ancient Greek philosophers such as epic. Titas used to say to those who wanted to learn from them. Rather than reading. Many books and learning quotes. The students should practice making the good choices in their everyday lives so when the monk asked about teaching him he replied with the same kind of idea instead of reading. More books are listening to Buddhist teachers or on about how to achieve enlightenment. Go Wash your bowl as you should and practice living mindfully now. Of course I. I really enjoyed the thought around this interpretation of the Cohen. Because I highly agree with that you know you can. You can read and you can listen. And you can devour the theory behind Living more mindful. You're the theory behind all of these topics in concepts and ideas that we encounter Buddhism. But nothing will substitute for the experiential understanding that you will gain when you're just out doing whatever it is that you're doing and I can't overemphasize that whatever it is. You're doing in the same way that that Nancy said you could be even washing dish and that Definitely gets to the heart of what this co on his talking about and then one more thought this is from Brayden. Who says open quote for me? This Cohen makes me think of the way I go about enlightenment personally. I've delved wholeheartedly into enlightenment and forgotten about the world around me and the responsibilities I have outside the desire for enlightenment. The pursuit of that desire has gone in the way of my other responsibilities and I've neglected tasks and people in my life. This Cohen is a reminder to me to follow through with the things outside my journey and And that can help in setting up an environment that promotes enlightenment as I. Focus my whole attention on studying and learning close quote And I really agree with what? Brayden is Emphasizing here in his understanding of the Co on the Cohen is an invitation to remember to go back to washing the dishes rather than getting lost in the pursuit of enlightenment and the irony in that especially with his Co. on is that the moment the Monk hears this. He is enlightened when right it says at that moment the monk was enlightened when he realizes use has to go wash his bowl and to me. That's incredibly profound. Because just like Brayden is talking about. We can get caught up in this pursuit of becoming enlightened. And it's like wow. I'M GONNA go become enlightened so I don't have time to wash the dishes I've got to go. Sit In on my meditation cushion and you know. Hit my one hour to hour. Meditation goal for the day and in the process of pursuing. This conceptual idea we have of enlightenment. Were missing the whole point because it was in the washing of the dish that you could have found it and that to me is right at the heart of of what Zen is constantly trying to push us back to the the everyday nature of this stuff. So my thoughts on the CO on. This is an invitation to go back to the simple Understanding of the experiential nature of of life. You know it's important to emphasize here. The enlightenment is a concept. It's an idea and we we gain this idea from books from people from teachers from all kinds of places but an idea gets planted in your head that hey there's the thing and it's called enlightenment and then here's how you go obtain it and then we get caught up in that and what. We're trying to get back to in a lot of ways with this practices back to the present moment and in and to live a life. That's a little bit more skillful and less reactive and since you just finished eating perhaps the most skillful thing to do next is to wash the bowl. And that's it. That's how simple that was but to understand that and to do that because it's a non-reactive thing like I am washing the bull because I understand that it makes sense at this moment in time to now wash the bowl that is that's it that's enlightenment and there's nothing big and great and vast beyond that and at the same time that awareness that the skillful thing to do is to wash the bowl. That's it that's the magic of awareness. That's how I understand this and I. I want to kind of continue on this discussion but applying it to the topic that I wanted to share today. Which is the answer for the email I received with. How do we deal with people that we don't like well? Awareness is GonNa make play a role in this and I'll get to that in a second but first of all with with the concept of dealing with people that you don't like again just like with the cohens what we're trying to learn to do as a practice is to look inward so rather than thinking. Okay here's so and so I don't like so and so how do I deal with them? Let's look inward for a moment. And say what does this really pointing to What is it that that I dislike? Where does the disliking come from? And I've been practicing this a little bit with with my kids. For example my son Reiko he is a picky eater and he has a lot of foods that he doesn't like and anytime he says. Oh I don't like this or that you know I try to remind him and say wait. Is it you? That doesn't like it or is it your taste buds. That don't like the food and that simple question helps him to understand. It's not him dislikes the food. It's it's how he is that prevents him from liking the food and he can't help that right if you All all of us have this. I just think of something that you don't like to eat and ask yourself that same question as it you. That doesn't like it or is it your taste buds. I did the Twenty three and me genetic tests that you can do that gives you not just your ancestry and genetic information but it gives you like your health traits your genetic health reports and something that stood out to me and there was there. There's a variation on one of the genes that you can have that will determine whether you are likely to enjoy bitter tastes Or not and this will d they use it as a marker to determine if you like Brussel sprouts or not and it's kind of fascinating to think that it's just a matter of DNA that could determine if somebody likes Brussels sprouts versus someone. Who doesn't which goes right back to the heart of what? I'm discussing here. Is it really me? That likes the Brussel sprouts or is it my genetic makeup that allows me to taste and enjoy that flavor when someone else will taste and all they get is a bitter flavor that they can't tolerate so they would think. I don't like Brussel sprouts while I'm thinking. I do like Brussel sprouts and neither one of us. It's it's the genetic marker in our DNA that allows us to experience. The world and Brussels sprouts the way we're experiencing them and I think that's a really profound understanding that you can take not just into how you taste food but into the very question of dealing with people that you don't like now this to me really alludes to one of the most profound. Cohen's that I've that I've encountered is a what I would call a lifetime co on? This is one of those cones that you work with in an ongoing manner day after day and these are the powerful words of the Co on. That goes like this leaned. Ye said there is nothing I dislike and that's it that's the CO on. There is nothing I dislike now. This is a co on that. When I first came across and heard I think mentioned in the podcast before this Cohen but I thought wow. There's nothing I dislike. How on earth do you ever arrive at that? Now take that same sentiment and apply it to dealing with people that we dislike now. The implication here is if there is nothing I dislike that also means there are no people that I dislike and you might pause and be like okay. Now that's just impossible. How on Earth would you ever reach that? Well it's it's quite simple. If you apply it to the same line of thinking of me talking to Reiko and say well wait a second is it. You the doesn't like the food or is it your taste buds. Now when it when it comes to people you know it's a little bit harder to take that step back but we can do it and say well wait a second. Is it me. That doesn't like so and so or is it the the ideas that I hold that clash with the ideas that they hold and that friction is uncomfortable and that discomfort makes me so that I don't WanNa be around that person and there you go. That is a more realistic picture. But that doesn't mean. I dislike so-and-so. I don't even know you know you can't I barely know myself. How do I know everything there is to know about so and so to decide I dislike them so I think that allows the take a step back and be like okay well so and so might Espouse a certain view are certain beliefs or certain ideas that are uncomfortable for me to be around because they clashed with the ones that I have but again take another step back and be like I am not my ideas I am not my beliefs. I am not my views and and neither is so and so so there's nothing there's no fundamental permanent Independent part of me that dislikes the permanent independent part of so and so because both of the both of those are an illusion. Right there's So I I hope you get what I'm trying to say with that and I'm not trying to minimize the unpleasantness. That we may deal with with people that we really don't like to be around. You may not like being around someone because they say really mean things are they take advantage of you or maybe. They're abusive or something. I'm not trying to minimize any way. All I'm trying to understand or all. I'm trying to emphasize. Here is the nature of interdependence and the nature of impermanent applied directly to the concept of not liking things and in with this specific co on. There is nothing I dislike for me. The secret of understanding that entire phrase. That is really powerful phrase is I? He says there's nothing I dislike because there is no I the way that I think that I exist right. There's the interdependent impermanent Part of me but that implies that there may be a version of me that does like so and so you know maybe if I am in a good mood or if I just Re got an offer for a new position at work or I just ate a good meal so I'm not hungry or I was raised in conditions. Where you know. I don't have to worry about this or that Circumstance or factor in my life like just change the variables a bit. It and suddenly I would like this person that to me is a really profound understanding that helps me to recognize. It's not me the dislikes anyone. There's not there's not. It's not me that dislikes anything and to me. That's a really profound Cohen to work with. And like I said you work with us every day right every day you can analyze the things that you don't like and then say well is it really me that doesn't like it and break that down and get into the causes and conditions and see the interdependent impermanent nature of things and suddenly the way you view that changes and what that changes is their relationship. You have with the feelings that you're experiencing while you're going through whatever circumstances you're in so that would be Kind of a roundabout way long long story short answer to the email that I received this. How do we deal with people that we don't like now? Sure on the surface I could give tips or hints of you know Well one obvious thing is trying to not be around people that he'd like but it's not that simple right the people that you don't like might be people in your family it might be Your in-laws or your Cousins or your crazy enter uncle or you know it can be muddy to the point where you're you can't just avoid these people you can't ignore them and not have them be a part of your life and maybe your neighbor right and you can't just move away It may not be so simple so in these complex situations where you're dealing with with people that you dislike. My invitation has always to stop looking at the people. Start looking inward at you. What is it I dislike about this person and what you'll learn about yourself in that process? That's what really matters because you can gain a lot of insight and wisdom about you right remember. The whole thing we're trying to accomplish here is to step away from the more reactive. Life where you just go about you know from one chain of reactivity to another breaking that chain of reactivity and living a more skillful life where where you are more deliberate and skilful with each action so the moment I encountered someone I dislike. That's an invitation to me to go inward and say Why do I dislike this person? What part of me dislikes the part of them. The feel you know where. Where exactly does that happen? Is it the I disliked? Look is that I dislike. Their words is that that I disliked their ideas their views their beliefs. There what is it that I dislike right and I go inward and I tried to understand that about me and when I can identify what the thing is then. I have to identify what is what. Exactly what part of me doesn't like that is that my thought says it my ideas as it my beliefs and I do the same thing inward that I was doing to pinpoint what I dislike about them. What part of me dislikes that part about them. And that deconstruction are that separation into layers into causes and conditions Essentially what I'm doing is trying to look through the Lens of permanence and interdependence and that changes the dynamic and then suddenly I realized okay all right I realized I don't dislike this person. Sure I don't my views. Don't match their views. But that's different. I can still liked them in spite of their views and in spite of my views where we're on earth that I get my views right. I got him from the same place they probably got. There's all these causes and conditions that I almost can't help. I can't help that. I read a book and it made me start thinking this way or I was raised in a household that made me think that way. And you know like I. I'm the result at this specific moment in time of all these past causes and conditions that make me the way that I am but so is that person I dislike. So what point in that change I say. Oh that's what I dislike. Great this is like the story of of the stick that the Cohen as well to the Father. Who's pointing out to his son you know. What is it that you dislike as he's pointing Poking him with the stick in the the son gets mad music. Are you mad at the stick or you mad at my hand or are you mad at my arm or you mad at my My mind for for this idea or mad at my dad who taught me this lesson right. It's like a what point do you say? Oh that's the thing I mad at and when we're dealing with people that we dislike you can do the same thing. Do you really dislike them? Or do you dislike. Their parents. Raised them that way or the society? Our neighborhood they grew up in that made them think this way or is it that you disliked their Religion that that that taught them to think what they think. We're at what point do you say that's the thing I dislike and you might say dislike all of it but that's helpful still more than just pinning it on this one person. Who is the person to be disliked? And who is the person that does the disliking? Neither one of those are really. They're the way that we think they're there. And that is how I tackle this concept of dealing with people that I don't like I I realize there you know I I am vote. The wise words of lenient. Who said there's nothing I dislike and I take that to heart and my own life. I really do try to remind myself that in a very real way there is nothing I dislike. There isn't there are a lot of unpleasant things. my just as a kind of a dumb example my irrational fear of snakes but I do not dislike snakes I don't even dislike my irrational fear of snakes. 'cause I know that I I couldn't I can't help. I can't help that. I have that I don't even know where it came from. I kind of have vague. Understanding of maybe circumstances are memories. That may have spurred that on at some point in my life. But I can't help it and what I can do is slowly work to be better and better with it you know I have. I have held snakes and I have Worked with it but anyway what I'm trying to get at is Another way to encounter this is to say what am I not seen when when we talk about the the concept of awareness the magic of awareness so to speak for me? That's the invitation to say. There's something here that I'm not seeing and if I dislike someone that could very well be that there's something in them that I'm just not seen and it doesn't require any change on their art what it requires more attention or more focus on my part to say what am I not seeing at. Sometimes that mental exploration will allow me to start changing the feeling or the attitude that I have towards another person because I start to see something in them that I didn't see before and that's work this done on my part. That's not work that needs to be done on their part and I think sometimes were caught mixed up. There were thinking I will like them more when they stopped doing this or when they start doing that and we put it on them to to change and the truth is it's on me. If I WANNA like someone I'll have to do is look harder. I the more I understand someone. The more natural. It is to like that person and again. This is not forced. And I'm not saying all this because you should like everyone. You don't have to like anybody if you don't WanNa if you WANNA deal with if you're uncomfortable with how you're dealing with people that you dislike then yes. Listen TO ALL OF THIS. If you don't care and you're fine with disliking people then fine keep disliking people again. This is like the hamster in the in the wheel. That's just running like if you're if you're that mouse this running in the wheel and you're comfortable with that fine but when that mouse gets tired and says why am I in here. Running spending on this wheel will maybe. Let's look into that. Maybe it's wise now at this point in your life to hop off the wheel. That's what I want to emphasize in this lesson. I'm not saying these things with the idea that hey you need to go out there and start working to like the people you dislike. I'm not saying that you don't have to do that. But if it's bothering you enough that you're saying I I don't like how I deal with this. The people that I dislike will then sure listen to all this and and maybe spend the time to look inward and see what you can learn about yourself and exactly what part of you is it. The dislikes and And what part of them is it that you actually dislike and the same way that with Reiko like is it your taste buds. That dislike the food. Because that's very different than saying I dislike the food and I I I think that's a a skilful way to start with the introspective questioning of. How do I deal with something? Someone that I don't like So that's it. That's my invitation. That's the topic that I have and rather than sharing A NEW CO on at the end. I think I'd like to leave you with the CO on the Lini said there's nothing I dislike I'd like I'd like to leave that with you with an exercise between now and the next podcast episode whenever you listen to it and in fact beyond that make this daily one one of those daily. Cohen's that every now and then you remind yourself there is nothing I dislike and analyze. How does it feel to even say that is are there things I dislike? Yeah Yeah there are okay. We'll what are those things and what part of you dislike. Salmon really work with it through the Lens of interdependence and permanence and what you should start to see if you really look for those two lenses of impertinence and interdependence especially in the context of of what that implies about you Then revisit the question. There is nothing I dislike and win that rings. True to you. It's going to be a really powerful experience. Understand that just as Lindsay said there is indeed nothing I dislike and that's what I want to leave with you. That's all I have for the podcast episode today as always thank you for listening if you want to support the work. I'm doing with the podcast considered becoming a patron and joining our online community. Where we discuss these Cohen's where we discussed the podcast episodes and I'm getting ready to add a lot more weekly content there Every day Taking these concepts into everyday life in situations And you can learn more about that by visiting secular Buddhism Dot Com. If you've enjoyed this podcast episode please share it with others. Writer Review Give it a rating on I tunes and that's all I have for now but I look forward to recording another podcast episode. Soon thank you for taking the time to listen and Until next time

Cohen Reiko Brussels Brussel Nancy Michael Patriot community South Zoo Noah Rochetta Brayden Brussel Titas David Co. Writer Lini Salmon Lindsay
Sam Bettens

If These Ovaries Could Talk

55:35 min | 8 months ago

Sam Bettens

"This episode is brought to you by modern fertility pillow to she. We are happy to have them on board. Making the show possibility welcome to. If these ovaries could talk I'm gene I'm Robin! Fruit. Pasta I am a lesbian. So, we need to tell her story. It's not your nuclear family anymore. Such your mom and dad, we're not. The game. Happy. Happy right it's still good to see you here or here be here. What we're not together, Jamie, but did you hear to fake talking? I'm talking to the listeners you. That's not going to see me. Yeah, we're not together. We're still social distancing, and it's pride is pride. It is a month of Sal. La Braye Shin my friends. Feel it's GonNa feel like a little less celebratory? No, we have no bake shop to make it virtual wall pride. You know what I noticed have in the suburbs. At least all the kids put rainbows in their windows right now. It's like a thing in the several is that I didn't know that four like during this social distancing time, everybody has rainbows in their windows. They had him for like two months, but it wasn't right or something. You know it started in March when we started this whole fiasco, but I'm going to call them all rainbow flags kids. Are because we don't get to like walk around and see all the commercialization of pride like the game show, and all that, which by the way that's not a bad thing, I. Don't Care What Citibank thinks about pride last year Rosen. I took like a pride tour of the city, and just took pictures in front of all the beautiful rainbows and colors, and and you're right. We can't do that this time. Well, listen I don't want to say that gladstone idea of virtual pride videos, but gladstone idea virtual prize videos and it wasn't even actually. We stole the idea from our listeners on their lives. But. Let's not, but we do WanNa tell you guys want you to make videos of how your family is celebrating pride, virtually the sheer make them creative and fun and funny or whatever we're just have fun with it. Meet a like a minute, and then I'm sending it to us, and then we'll. We'll share it on her social feed. Ya I'd like to reiterate for Robin. Please don't make them too long. Because because Robin like keep them short and long time limits. Time there. What do you do? I'm just I'm just making fun of you know they need to be short, so we can fit them. All GonNa would hate to make a great video on the. We can't play. It's all Jamie I just last week. I ordered pride shirts for me, and hopefully they get here and. What do they collins will one of them is to of the Disney princesses making out which is awesome. I know it's really hot, and then the other one is like a rainbow and you do you or something like that? That sounds like that's only a different message you. Do you saying that the sounds like cried? Well, it's for pride. It's more. It's more muted one for hearing. She's not going to wear the princesses kissing. That's more my jam. Jam Jam Disney is yet. Let's see. Before we get to our guest today which we don't want to say too much up front because he's amazing, we have to get to him, but. Then we need to give a shoutout to all the folks who joined our Patriot community. After we asked for help last week in our big patron pitch, it wasn't an easy ask for us, but we are just a whole, so honored and thankful that so many people answered the call. Brandon I have to say it was so much, not an easy thing that after. After we did it and all leading up to the Monday, that aired I was on the verge of sending you an email. Let's take it out out. It's so much about area and yeah. Yeah, so we did it and you responded, so thank you so much, so we have to say a huge. Thank you to Melissa. Feldman Danielle Lally Alicia Romero Emily Pearson. Or is it Wynberg? Will you need to tell us in the livestream? 'cause she's always Oh. Yeah, we love you. Jessica Smith. Okay, and for the rest of you if That was weird. Great transition there were so good our jobs Jamie on, but for the rest of you if you're like what did I miss last week's episode Patriot is our community where you can support, but also where we have all kinds of bonus content at varying levels, and we have video some some of the interviews. We have swag that for joining and we even put. Put up some interviews unedited ad free videos, so you can watch us. ramble through interviews with people in my mother. Really love the video, so you should know that too well. Guys if Jamie's mother loves the video, then you better, you better get up loves the videos, but also we appreciate your support, because we don't want Robin to have to go back to work cleese. This. Won't we really don't happen if province to go back to work? Two job offers, and I'm like. Why is the universe doing this to me I'm like I'm trying to pursue our dreams here and the universe is I. Don't know. Maybe tell me I shouldn't have these dreams because it keeps down lake. Here's some job. No wait we'll, we'll let's watch those patriot. Members come rolling in and there's your science. Get off a patriot. Okay. Let's talk about our guest today all right Sam batons the lead singer of the Band K's choice and rex rebel I mazing I've been such a fan of him from back in the day, but what was so cool is one of our listeners A. Vendor Vander Jack Need. We never know how to say her name, but she's delightful. Anyway we'll. She is part of our Patriot community and she was emailing us, and she said you gotta get Sam. He's this Belgium singer and I was like Oh, cool, and then all of a sudden I like looked up his name and I was like Oh crap. I was the lead singer for case choice because I was such a fan, and so then, of course we started stocking. Yeah, exactly and just about two years. Years ago, he began transitioning. Yeah, and he's got of log about it and we were like. Let's get him on here and he was like I. We didn't even have to really stock. He was just like yeah. I WanNa, do this, which is awesome. We love it when we don't have to Stop People Helen. Shut up. We know we gotta rolled up. We're GONNA. We're closing the in showdown, Helen, she just needs only talk about stocking now I know how stocks and up loosen up how fight Helen! Audio go roll the interview I think we need to get Helena gifts I'm so mean to her Helen's. Her Job all right, let's go. Let's go to the interview. All Right? Okay, roll it. Thank you joining us? Thanks for having me. It's so good to see you. I was just saying earlier that I feel like. We have a celebrity here. Because Robert and I have both been watching your blog, that's cool. It's amazing, but also because like back in the day. When I worked at MTV in the music talent department like when you're disc when the case choice disc came across my desk I was like obsessively playing it and everyone in the department was like we got it like that I like the disc so like. Oh that's nice fanfare theaters Yankee. You're pretty amazing SAM. Thank you, so we're going to start where we always start. Which is elevator pitch of you and your family? Are you timing Jamie? Yeah I can. Thirty seconds are here we go. I. I'm Sam Buttons I'm a transgender man I have four kids. Two step kids to adopted. My wife is fantastic. She means everything to me. I am a musician. I get along great with my extended family. I have two brothers to fantastic parents. Lots of friends good life. That's. You had eight seconds left. That have nothing. I have nothing else. That's all. That's all I just a career as a rock musician I have four kids, but that's all I've got. Only takes twenty two seconds to talk about it. Data main all right well. Let's dig in Sam Yeah. Let's talk about how you I created your family like with your wife, and how did you? How did you get your kids? So my wife? That's actually a story then not going to get into with you guys. Today is going to be way too long, but I was married to a man, and so she and my ex husband was actually one of her best friends why? Yeah, so we met just as friends and then yeah. And then one thing led to another. Did you guys get divorced before you got together. Can I that? Yes, we both got. We both got divorced. Hers was way more painful than mine because there were kids involved and I had a very understanding ex husband, so that was Nice Burger hers not so much, so that was a much. Much harder deal when you guys got divorced. Did you tell your husband's? It was because you wanted to be with women or was. That didn't have anything to do with it. Yes so I told I told my husband that whether I was going to end up with her or not, because her divorce was more complicated and actually wasn't sure. In the beginning, because kids just always very, it was all very sad and complicated, but I told my husband at the time. That for sure I knew I was gay. So that was you know I I fell in love with the woman. It fell completely different, so regardless of. Whether I had a future with her or not. I knew that what we had. An and my husband makes us we you know we were great friends we had. We thought we had a great marriage, but then I realized there's some there's a whole other thing there that you see in movies that actually does exist you know and that's what I experienced with her, and I told him like assistant like it's just not. This is not where I should be that that much. I know whatever happens after. And he was, he was pretty understanding I. Mean we still slow to? When we decided we were going to get divorced. We still slept and same bed. We still hung out until everything was fine. All we had a mediator. Split everything up. It was all very at all. It was all pretty smooth was nice. That's good. That's good to hear, and you didn't have any kids together. We didn't have kids together. which really makes things so much easier? You know when it's when it's just about money. It's just like you. You just get past that so quickly. Especially when your happiness is involved, you dislike. He can kind of let all that. Go so quickly like. This is about our lives. Let's just let's just be smart. Let's just do this in a smart fast way and not worry about it too much kids so emotional and and also you know. There's there's the ex husbands ego, which might minded and really have that problem that much, and it was very different with my life. And how many kids did she have two? Yeah, so they were four and six at the time. Yeah, so they were, they were still little, which was great because there was not a lot of questioning of. New Person in their lives. They just extra person that loved them for them. It was just like all right whole bonus. There's a whole bonus person coming into our lives, and not in that really difficult like teenage age. You know if your parents get divorced, and you're kind of looking for yourself, and who you are and trying to discover what your places in life I think divorces could be really tough, but. Kids are little. They just you know they're so in the moment. They WANNA be loved. Entertained have a good time. They want everyone to be happy, and so they they did. They did pretty well just wanted to. What you. Way You realize you were gated. Come as a shock to you. Yeah, the weird thing was that it came as a shock to me and not. Anyone else. It's not how. Because then I looked back after like. Oh, there were only like. One hundred thousand signs like. Short of like everyone, actually in my life holding up signs saying you're gay every day like everything else was pretty much there. You're like I think I'm going to get married and people were like. Why are you? Two guys. Stink interesting I. Mean sure we'll come to the wedding, but. I, look back at all the signs, and of course have it now to with transitioning to mail. It's Kinda the same thing like. Oh, my gosh, there were so many signs. With the Trans thing, it's different because that's really a new concept. That didn't even know when I was a teenager I hadn't even heard of that, so that's kind of understandable, but the gay thing falling for women obviously wanting to be with the woman that that whole thing is just like it's still baffles me today that it took me to to eight to realize that that that was where I needed to be yeah. Twenty eight years old were was twenty eight years old, and I had been married for seven years. I got married really young. I had some quick like relationships very intense friendships, and there is definitely some physical stuff involved when I was a teenager and I always. Attributed to Oh. That's what girls do you know? Girls, being girls, and then I look back like no. That's not girls being girls. That's that's girls having sex. With each other. That's. Crash, yes. That's quite the crust that everyone does that at slumber parties apparently not. Did it come as a shock to your wife that she was gay. She can ahead similar teenage experiences so a couple of boyfriends, but then also a couple of girlfriends kind of made me not and so it was kind of the same thing to where we don't think I had the language to be honest with you. I knew one lesbian, and it was Martina Navratilova and I thought she was awesome. And she was telling people talked so harshly about her. That's what I that's what I really remember I remember where tennis family, my parents were tennis players, and so we would be watching these beautiful matches between her and Chris Evert, and they would talk so harshly about her how she was like a so masculine and unattractive and. Her jaw that was so straight and it looked like a man's face and I didn't really think about it at the time, but it must have really done something to me because why would i? Why would I remember that? Them talking about her in that way and I used to defend her. Because because she was such a great tennis for is that why? Why are you talking about her that she volleys all the time. Why? Why aren't we talking about that? So for some reason I really felt like I had to defend her. Yeah, so lesbian was Martina Navratilova period. There were no other people there were no examples it wasn't. Everyday conversation even when I was in highschool, kissing my friends and Kinda messing around a little, we didn't talk about it as lesbian. We didn't use that word now, so it was. It was so far away in Belgium. Is that right? Yeah? I grew up in Belgium. Think it was like culturally less open. There've in here. I mean not that it was open here then, but do you think? Think that played into it in any way I don't know if Belgium had anything to do with it. Because in general Belgium like gay marriage was legal long before it was legal here and Yeah Dade. Belton is pretty progressive when it comes to things like that, but I do know and I hate during mom under the bus, but she was so happy every time I did anything remotely feminine. or or every time I had a boyfriend, so she must have deep down been really worried that maybe I was lesbian, so everything that happened. That was kind of more normal. In her mind, she was just it was like a celebration and yeah, when boyfriend broke up with me, you know I'm talking like when I was fifteen and it was like a three month. You know relationship. She would lose like ten pounds it's. Like I'd be over at like twenty four hours later, and my mom and my mom had like a one month. Grieving period is just like. So at the time, I didn't really realize how weird that was. You know, but now I'm like all right, so there was definitely some I had two older brothers, and there was pressure for me to be the girl. Yeah I wasn't allowed to play soccer on a team. I was allowed to play in the backyard and in school, but I wasn't allowed to be on a team. How in my parents defense girl soccer in Belgium was not a thing like it is here. It was very very rare, and it was kind of like a little bit of a had a little bit of a low class vibe. But still it was all I wanted to do. Yeah and I wasn't allowed to do it, so there were definitely a message is being sent that I was expected to be a girl and fitting in, and as much as I always thought of myself as being such a an individual and my own personality and make decisions am strong. I must have also been such a pleasure at the same time. That's what I think. Now looking back like I was really thinking, I was kind of like breaking barriers in some way, and then at the same time I was really really still trying to fit in as. Deep. Cultural significance like you bring up the Martina story like I. Remember all of the announcers. All of the fans everyone was rooting against Martina all the time. And so there's that subtle undercurrent to not just coming from your family's coming from socially. That like that's the person you don't WanNa. Be Yes, the new. That's so weird. Yeah, that's so weird that that people were uncomfortable with her yeah! Overpowered everything else about her? And at that time it wasn't the way people weren't training the way they do now like you know the like. They weren't as muscular and size like it was just this. There's this masculinity to her that people were very uncomfortable with yeah, and and I I so hope and I know it's changing, but there's still so much work to be done, and that's I. think that's one of the most exciting things about. This new generation of young kids that don't care about gender that much anymore and don't care about fitting in that much. We, look at Serena Williams now and her power celebrated. You know who she is so strong, and if she I mean if she had played tennis in that era. I don't even know what people would have been saying about. It wouldn't even have let her letter yet. I know I know so i. like that idea where it's definitely changing. People are celebrating individuality and women that different are a little different present differently so much has changed again so much work to be done, but compared to when I was growing up. It's amazing. How much changed? So Jamie If you were to listen to this podcast, you probably have kids, or you're thinking of having them. And in LGBTQ WORLD, making babies requires a lot of science and a lot of planning. We all know that and it's one of the first things we need to do is start the process to make sure our downstairs is all in working order true. We need help to do that yet. Enter modern fertility, the easy and affordable way to test your fertility. Fertility hormones at home with a simple finger prick mail it in with a prepaid label, and you'll get your personalized results within ten days it that's amazing. 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You need information to make the decision. That's best for you. deb correct right now. Modern fertility is offering our listeners twenty bucks off the test. When you go to modern fertility dot com slash obt that means guys that. That means you're tests will cost one hundred and thirty nine dollars, instead of the hundreds or thousands. It could cost a doctor's office truth. This is very like the more you know, so get twenty dollars off your ability test when you go to modern fertility dot com slash obt. You need to know this information people. Check your eggs check. GEHRIG's get you discounts here for your eggs. Stop Okay. When did you become a stepparent? Like when did that little family become solidified? So as soon as both are I got divorced. I moved to Atlanta I. wanted to be close enough to my wife to where. I could see her if I wanted to. But not so close to where I was in her face was about four hours away from where she lived. When? Her divorce was final, which was about a year after mind, so she took a lot more time to think about her life, in which he wanted, and she wanted to be sure and with kids again. It's so much more complicated and it's a big decision. So when she got divorced, we had a ceremony commitment ceremony. His marriage wasn't legal, but we had like a little thing with just two or three friends of backyard of a friend, and we dressed up and in dresses. Those of us. That gender thing you will not be seeing those pictures. And then the little kids were dressed up with super cute and They got like a little treasure chest with like a promise from us, and they had all super cute, and that was the first day we wanted to make it official for the little kids that first day I spent the night so that it was real to them. It was like a real thing like regardless of whether it was legal. We wanted it to make it. You know to show them like this is what this is a new family starting now. It was so new to me to have these two little kids in my life. There was like a purpose all of a sudden I aside from being in love with my wife and so happy that I was with someone that I really wanted to spend time with all the time. I used to find myself when I was married to my ex husband standing in the middle of the room in Santa, Cruz we were lived. One block from the beach is Santa Cruz is beautiful. And stand in the route like see myself from above like what am I? There's so many things I could do with my day, but just paralyzed, not knowing what my purpose was for the day. Let alone the month or the year like just just lost kind of and that just disappears with little kids. You know exactly what you're supposed to do because there's no time to be sitting in the middle of the room. You know wondering what you're going to do with your day like it's. It was I loved I loved that sense of like well. We didn't get anything done, but Kids are happy. They're fed sleep. They didn't die today. Describing my life now, right Sam! Yeah, there's no. There's no bigger like. Maybe I'll write a book someday. This no time get through the day. Get through this shower. Today exactly like that in there was a silver lining to the divorce part, because the kids went to the dads half the time, and so we got to be a young couple at the same time you know so I, had this whole new family and these two kids in my life that I just instantly decided like that's you know we're? We're one unit everything together, but then at the same time we would have this time. Just the two of us without the kids that was also fantastic and very honeymoon like we can do whatever we want with our day because whenever I'm home. I'm usually not working, so my wife wasn't working, so we would just kind of perfect. Hang out and. It was a kind of perfect in a weird way. Exactly argument for a divorce right there. Yeah Hashtag divorce rocks. My wife Mary and I talk all the time about how we want to be divorced, but we stay together, but there's just an ex husband that takes our kids. Wednesdays, Fridays so we don't know how to make that happen. We just. Friends to be the ankle that takes them. That's what we know. That was the rude awakening with the second batch of kids like Oh, Shit. There's no eggs husband to like. Take them, and we can like. Go travel for a week or something there with us all the time on you now all on. Before you get to the second set of kids, did you? Did you want kids before all this happened Mike will what were your thoughts about? Kids I always I always wanted kids and my husband and I were very careful about not having any. Because, we weren't ready and I used to secretly hope that something would go wrong. You know so that that we didn't have a choice. You know it was. It would just be there, but at the same time I have to say and I always wonder whether there's has something to do with my. Makeup, my my translates I. Being Pregnant always felt wrong to me I always wanted kids, and always felt wrong to be I did not see myself that way. I was trying to visualize it and like no. That's so weird like that. It's just going GONNA look weird. It's GonNa feel weird. So. I had always thought about adopting like that. That would probably be you. Know I want a family one kids in my life, but I just don't see myself I. Don't see myself that way. And said these kids came along and it was Kinda like the perfect. Solution to that. Yeah, it was great i. mean it's it's the parenting is for the stepparents listening out? There I'm sure they can relate. It's very very tough job because. You, you go all in because it's the only way to go, you know you can't. Can't make distinctions you can't you know like you have to emotionally financially just be one hundred percent otherwise. You can't hold back, so you throw your whole self in there? But you're always third wheel. You know where never the decision maker. You're never the final person who says like wait. Wait wait now. That's not how we're going to do it, so you're the supporting person when my wife's like how how do we do this? How handle this and then you're allowed an opinion. You're never the person who makes final decisions and that's that's pretty hard and also off. You're not the MOM and you're not the dad, so your your fun bonus person you throw yourself into mostly all the way, but the kids are fine without you. You know they have two parents. That didn't change over time because they're older now. The first kids right well it. Did you feel like you had some say in the decision making process when they were in high school or college. Yeah No, not really not really I mean I. Think I think ahead an impact on their lives just by being a parent in their lives, and we spent a lot of time together and I volunteered in their schools and so. So you just have to kind of constantly know your place and your role and it's It's. It's not good for the EGO, so you got to really like. Be Able to put your your eagle all the way to the side as a step parent and say like one day. Probably when they're in their thirties. And they have kids, and you're like the grandparent. They'll realize like. Oh. That was really you know like? He taught us how to play golf, and you know like showed us would like to be a good partner, and what? It's like to be a good parent like all these things like. I'm not saying nothing. I don't want to say too harshly because they were. They were very lovey with me. Kids and they accepted me all the way. They didn't hold back. But. They struggled who lived in Tennessee they struggled as teenagers, not with me personally, but just with the outside world. They had a really hard time because of the gaping. Yeah, it was very hard for them, and I looked already pretty masculine than and. We lived a small place called Johnson, city Tennessee. Whatever you're picturing right now, you're right. You know it's A. Very very conservative and everyone going to church on Sundays except us like we used to do our heathen shopping on Sunday morning, because no one was there. And so all these kids in their school would throw words like fag around no problem, and then they would come home and I think it was hard for them. You know I wanted to be the support of parent who came to every game, and came to every performance, and was always there, and then at the same time there was a part of me felt like they might not want me here right now on. It's heartbreaking, so it was just it was always this double. You know I. It was that that made it really tough. And how did their dad take this? Because I know it was a tough divorce. Yeah, he was not great in the beginning, but over time he came around and really accept me as a parent. It gets better. Sometimes, it takes awhile. 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First of all I loved having kids I knew that much, and there's probably a part of me. That didn't want to be the third wheel and wanted to be fulltime all the way deciding person from day one and watch a child. Grow from being a baby, and this really being all the way apparent, not just this extra, not just the bonus person. Yeah so I convinced my wife. She still blames me for it. When their hearts, he calls them my kids. I do that to. My Wife's kids see look what your daughter did. Look what you're. Right. When did you start transitioning? And how did that affect the family? And how and what happened with that so I'm actually celebrating my one year on testosterone this week. Thank you, thank you. I have probably had been kind of transitioning in a way for a long time like I can kinda see like look at pictures and see how I became more masculine over time and then. Our kids. Went to college and left? The House and we moved to California and all of a sudden that whole burden of Tennessee, and and having step kids being kind of embarrassed by presence. Sometimes, that was gone. And I think it's just opened up without me knowing it. A LID opened of this box once it opened and I let out these. Thoughts it just. There was no way of putting him back and there was room. All of a sudden to to let the let all that happen. So one day I just told my wife I think I think after call my friend, only transgender friend I had. Who Lives in Saint Louis and the I said I think after call him today and talk about something because I. I need to figure out what's going on. And did this. Come as a shock to your wife or like? You say you've been kind of slowly getting there. Do you think that she was seeing it? Yeah, were you. Were you sharing with her? Your thoughts, so I shared my thoughts with her literally on the day, I had the thought myself so the first am actively thought like a wonder. If I'm transgender, I shared it with her. Rave, yeah I didn't want it to be. A really wanted to become the because that was. Probably from the GECKO, my only real concern might true true fear. Is that she and I would not be okay. And I think she. I think part of Earth thought like yes, sure we've seen this before you know now you had to join the fire department. And and then she saw me coming out of an army recruiting office once and now and now we have to have more kids like this is just your next you know like. Life's getting a little too comfortable, so let's mix it up a little bit. Let's do something else like there's probably a part of her. That thought like this probably going to go away right here. We go again. Yeah, here, we go again. Let's explore this I'm supportive. I'm going to be good. Wife and we're GONNA come full circle. I think she needed to understand it so I. would say that's the only thing that took maybe a couple of months for her. So there was no anger, no real sadness either. Just not really understanding and I was pretty obsessed with it obviously from the beginning so from from. The second I thought. This might really be something. I was all over Youtube in a reading and buying books, and and talking to it all you wanted to talk about. Yes, so I had to be really careful about that because I realized it was all I wanted to talk about she minute. Click at some point where she just saw it. Is actually not a new concept renaming it were were acknowledging it for what it is, but obviously this has been a work in progress for many many years, and she saw it. She's had flashes actually through the years before I even mentioned it. She she's not looking at me. But unlike standing behind her or next to her somewhere, and she feels a male presence, and then she realizes it's me all right. There was something about that that that clicked with her like. This is not a decision. The decision is. Are you going to pursue it or not, but it's not a decision whether it's happening already. How're yes? It is what it is exactly. And, you clear in your mind. She's your person and years I think it's clear that your person as well regardless of what your gender is you present to was a little. Nervous may be because you know. She's attracted to me and she was wondering whether she still would be. After I transitioned considers herself a lesbian, and so that was weird almost feels like you're just like repositioning how you think about something. Does that make sense because it was like you? You're all the same people you always wear this all along. You just came to terms with it and the labels don't mean anything except for is what it feels like to me. Am I saying that right right? I had feeling all the time that it was the biggest thing happening in my life and the smallest at the same time. I would have these moments where it seemed huge like. My parents and what I'm changing my gender, what people are going to call me a different name? That's huge. It's the biggest thing that anyone could ever decide. And then at the same on the same day would feel like nothing's changing. About how we name things how we see things like this has always been there so interesting. Isn't it that it's just all this crap. We put on this stuff. It's our own perceptions, but there's also to make the same parallel of the Martina conversation. There's another level that you're public figure you know you're in a prominent band and you're out there in front of people and you didn't just have to like. Tell your mother. You had to tell like news media, and that's a significant thing. Yeah, that actually wasn't. That wasn't a negative for me at all I I kinda saw it as an asset right away. It's like Oh this is easy. I don't know if the toll my friends will just like. Announce it publisher, and then everyone just. Then and. I did tell my friends ahead of time, but yeah, that was never turn for me I actually pretty quickly side as a as a total bonus of being able to contribute, and and even if I just reached a couple of hundred people or a couple of thousand people with my blogs, and was a message like Hey, we're trans family and everything's still fine didn't drop on our house. Everything still good I. I always knew that that was going to be a good thing. I. I wasn't scared of that. wasn't scared of that at all. And I. Ask when you start thinking about this. You said you. You washed a lot of youtube videos. On Your Research? was there a lot on youtube to help you through it will. The problem is like the most trans guys that have their own blogs are in their twenties. You know so. That's very very warped sense of what was going to happen to me like after transitioning 'cause there. Because everything goes faster when you're younger, so the closer used the larger your adolescence, the testosterone has bigger effect on your voice in your body and. that's interesting, so so I did learn that before I transitioned that it. It's different for older transgender guys, so there's a couple of guys started following, and and they were just very very open, and that's what I loved about it so much like they're just. They're just throwing it all out there. Also that even though they're already on testosterone, and they may or may not have had surgery that they also still have doubts about certain things, and they were just so open kind of like. I hate to say it in feminine. Way Openness, you know like lot of guys can't be you know. Just talk about like what's hard about this some days. I feel great in my body other days. I feel like I can't leave the house like just very open and honest, and it was so great to see that they had happy functioning lives, and it exists it was the path. It's like I didn't know that path existed. After listening to those guys and thinking so much about. Gender and where I fit in, I feel like I may have gotten more about things that have nothing to do with lgbt like this little things that, maybe before I was still I didn't have enough gray area and I am I feel like I I'm growing that way by seeing all the gray area in gender I'm I'm learning to see it and other things as well that have nothing to do with with being gay or being trans interests rounding you out more as a person and I. think that also Sam you have. You and other Trans individuals you have the unique experience of having lived the other gender, so you've lived as a woman now you're transitioning to a man and so you have. Your at WanNa sit say this might sound tear. Blessed in a way because you know no. Yeah I would agree I, and my wife jokes about this sometimes like she's like. If you were just a regular dude, I don't think I'd have any interest, but you know it's. It's a whole story. You know everything that everything that you are and I've actually heard trans. Guys. Talk about this that when they're. Stealth somewhere. You know there's like an at a party and people don't. There's people there that they don't know and they just see them as a regular guy. Sometimes they have the. They almost want to tell people like. Hey, just so you know I'm not some dude like. Yeah! It's not very interesting like I'm going to transit I like. All Story. because. My wife is saying the beginning now now all these interesting lesbian couples are not going to come to us and try to be friends with us anymore because we just looked like a break. Look Boring. Mom and the DAD. I know how boring. Boring anymore. You are not special. I know you're but I do realize that. that. It's kind of like A. You know there's definitely a lot of challenges in in being trans, but I do see that the. The silver lining in having lived as a woman, and nothing's really changed that much between my wife and me that way you know, we talk about things like the way girls over talking and over analyzing our days and. Over analyzing the kids, and it's so fluid. You know we just. We put names on things because we have to. Otherwise we you know it's just part of the conversation, but none of it really matters. It's just like you know it's just how how do you see yourself? How do you want to present to the world? And then once you decide that you know it's everything else to stays the same. You did mention that. Of course, there are many challenges that come with this. Can we talk about some of the challenges that come with traffic? and. kind of like thinking the same thing thinking. What would you want people to know? Yeah, well first of all I do WanNa like really point out that I think I'm in a very privileged position already looking very masculine, and so my voice still sounds feminine, but I passed pretty much all the time, and it's important for me. It's not important to all transgender people, but it's important to me to pass. And for a lot, especially transgender woman, the hormones don't do the same as they do for transgender guys and so passing for them as much harder especially when they transition later in life like me and so. I don't even want to put myself in the same category as those women and how tough life must be for them to walk into a starbucks and people stare at you and that kind of stuff doesn't happen to me. He would just look at me and think nothing. They take as you're it. Me for what I am they made some of them may think I'm really masculine woman. Most of them just think I'm a dude, and then that's it like I'm I'm not being stared at. So I think I'm very blessed that way to be a transgender person who's who doesn't have a daily struggle of. Going out into the public and knowing you're going to be judged, so that doesn't that doesn't happen to me. I have two or three Youtube trolls I think it's always the same people actually. Say mean things on the videos I mean it's. It's a bummer I. Don't like reading them, but. That's really when it comes from like the feedback when it comes to feedback. That's the only negatively I've experienced that yet. You know it's been a year since I've been on testosterone and I. Think of mellowed out it. It's hard not to be obsessed and not to you know you finally forty seven years old. You finally get to be who you are. And it's hard not to look in the mirror every day and look for little changes and wonder if you're changing, and and and so I didn't want it to take over I still wanted to just be dad. You know and go do that. Things not be a Trans Dad? You know just do regular like be present as a family member and not just have. Have it all. Be About me, so I need to watch for that and I think I can also still tell that even today. The people who know me still really see me as a woman. I think they're all trying everyone in my family. Think all my friends were trying and I think to have a little pep talk before they see me like He. And and Sam was easy, but the he is hard and I know. It's because that's not how they see me. They just see me as the same Sarah who is now way more masculine even than she already was before, and they don't have a problem with it, but I. Don't feel yet like I'm seen as who I feel I am and that and that sometimes will make me sad. I don't walk around depressed I'm. I'm happy person, but a that. It still weighs a little bit on me like everyone's trying and I'm so touched by how hard everyone's trying. And at the same time they slip up. Not, because they WANNA be mean they slip up because that's just still they me also could just be habit to. They've been saying young a certain word or phrase associated with you for. Forty seven forty six years. Yeah, it's some of that habit for sure and also I am patient. Things don't go as fast for me as it would for twenty year old or sixteen year old, and that's fine and I think actually. It's not just fine. I think it's perfect because it would be really hard for the world. You. Know for for everyone around me to. I think way harder to deal with like. Really fast changes if I had full blown beard right now and. big. Chest hair I think he'd be like what the hell just happened like. Now everyone's just has time like basically. My Body is giving everyone time to like. Get used to the idea, and also I've had no physical negative side effects. You know so. The testosterone is doing slowly what I wanted to do. My Body looks different. I'm stronger I. Love it I absolutely love it, but it's not like these giant. You know weird not. I'm not only towards. Never never will be all of a sudden yet like Austrian accent with the staff. Plea deal. It alert US side effects. Picturing like Santa Claus there, but. Yes, so the fact that the changes haven't been so drastic also makes it that I haven't felt anything bad at the stars from doesn't make me feel bad. I don't feel aggressive like some guys do feel more aggressive. My wife says I'm less patient, but I think she's. Protecting. I. Hear this party that interview. I can cut this part out of the interview. You'll give a special link so I should say she likes this masculine things, so I'm lucky, she my body changing I had top surgery. She's like that looks you know. She wasn't freaked out by that all she likes it, but she also says like. You more male in your reactions to the kids and wanting to see the hasn't gone as far as saying man's blaming things, but she she has said that I have a tendency to like one solve it okay before we would just like Yup Yup and now. Present me with your issue. Here's what you gotTA DO I. I. Don't think that she thinks have gotten a little bit more like that age. In that regard, you're like every other man on the planet. I know they do that. Exactly. Man's thing you. Let man's. Sam You mentioned top surgery. How long into your transition wet? When did when did that happen? So it's okay to talk about this. Questions absolutely top surgery was huge for me starting to stone and top surgery I pretty much from first second. I thought about whether I was trans or not. Those two things were in my mind like Oh, if only you know if. I could not have breasts. And just walk around with my shirt off. Then life would be you know. And turns out. That's exactly what it is. It's fantastic I walk around like I really put a shirt on for you guys to be polite but I. Walk Around with shirtless. Day. Did? You Burn Your Bras generally. Burn Your Bras. Did Not burn my bras because my wife uses some of them but I. In binders before that, yeah, so I had I started just on April and had my surgery in September. And, it was instantly fantastic. Just I knew it was going to be. It was never weird from the second. We took the bandages off and we looked as like. Yeah, that make sense you know it it it just. It just felt, and they did a really good job. I'm very happy with that. I have to constantly remind myself I'm forty-seven and not twenty seven. I look like chests of like twenty seven year. Old Guys I'm like I'm out, doesn't it? Look like does like well. You know you're old. You're old. I feel like your story is like a really nice reminder of you. Get there when you get there and all the friends you know, it's just like you came out when you're ready you. You know found your wife when you're ready. You adopted when you're just like, and then you start transitioning when you're ready was just like it. The world just showed up to you at the. The right time and I think it's a nice message to not push people before they're ready for anything exactly, and it's also such a message that you can never really conveyed a young people, and it's so sad. You wish you could tell them like you know. Things will happen in their own time you cannot. You CanNot Force wisdom at twenty five. You know you cannot know it. It all at that age like you can't completely of discovered yourself and know what really matters like. It's just everything just comes as it comes. And of course there's a part of me that wishes I. figured all this out at sixteen, and could have had my transition then and been a teenage boy, and but it didn't happen that way you know, and and there's just no reason. Reason to dwell on that too, and I think I had to mourn it a little bit, but there's really no reason to dwell on that and Mike. My kids are fine. My kids called me dowd from day one and never slipped up. It was unbelievable. That's incredible at their nine, so they get new information every day. Still you know they learn about new things all the time. And so to them it was just one new thing and we presented as. As something really exciting's happening for our family. You know and they looked at me and like yeah, that makes total sense, so your dad now doubt like Oh, yeah! Throw ball like they. They were totally. They didn't have all this pressure like what society going to say you know like? What does that really mean like they? They just looked at me. It makes sense to them. And they had a couple of questions about private parts and surgeries and stuff like that, but. then. There's like all right. If that's what if that's if gender if that's what it means, then I accept that and there you go. Kids always are better than US integrate. Thank you so much for sharing your story with us I. Mean It just wonderful? I was great talking to you guys. I was really looking forward to and I. Really enjoyed it. For Oh my God, I love him, doesn't he have the best voice? Jackie something so calming about when he speaks smooth, it smooth, and I mean if you feel it in your heart. Yeah, beaks, I mean he's a singer, so it makes sense, but there's just something about the way. He talks that I felt so relaxed. He's Got Dude I. Love that too, and he's got a lot of great insight, and I love that he's so open and willing to share it and what a journey! Journey I loved it. A heart will thank you folks. This is our kickoff deprived. Listen I. Do have to say we got a tremendous tremendous slate for pride. We have we Sarah ice in from American idol. We have Rachel REPEA-. Know who just happens to be a twin of somebody from the US women's soccer team and other Jamie that you really are excited about for pride. You Guys Sean t short. GonNa make you sweat. Santi of insanity fitness beach body fitness Omg PAB. And what's his husband's name? Robbins, got, Scottie, be got! Got To be Sean T. it's got to be and I I was fan girling fan growing. When was she was so many so many good interviews for pride, so make sure you come back. We also have to say that our book while it's not out till September twenty second the kindle book. If you're a kindle reader, the pre-sale is happening right now, so just going to Amazon and type. If these over could talk, and you're gonNA find it. It's there. It's cute, little little little tangle with our. Our Book and there are pictures below. It's amazing. We are writers of a book I can't even I. can't even if you want to talk about this episode or anything else, let's hit us on social media. Where can they get US Jamie well? You guys can go to over his talk on twitter. Ovaries underscore talk on the Graham. If these overs could talk on Facebook, you can also join our community there, and you can talk to other listeners, which is always fun. You can also join our community on. On patriae on at Patriotair Dot. com slash ovaries. Talk for the bonus content. We talked about in the beginning of the episode, and you can now subscribe to us on Youtube to catch up on our ovaries. Talk Livestream, and also there are some of our video interviews there as escapades, yes, and some footage from like our guests and stuff, so check that out. We want to say a very very big. Thank you to our sponsors modern fertility. Check your eggs and hello to she. Hello guys helped us. To She Helping US make the show a possibility and allowing us to save badge, and but that was amazing. We thank you guys. That was so fun and so guys you know. Stay healthy. Stay Sane. Stay away from everyone. Don't touch your face as we're going to get through this Helen. What here for you not to have to face this Howlin Okay Allen? We are on it. She's over there with crazy. She's got one. Oh, that mask she has that she has with. It's like one of those from outerspace masks. She doesn't mess around and I. Don't know what good it does. When she brings it down, so she can smoke. It's like Helen. Cigarettes could smoke in Helen all right. Hey. I don't like scrambled eggs. How. All of these.

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H-Hour Podcast #106 Simon Harmer  combat medic, entrepreneur, co-founder Mike Alpha

H-Hour: A Sniper's Podcast

1:49:43 hr | 3 months ago

H-Hour Podcast #106 Simon Harmer combat medic, entrepreneur, co-founder Mike Alpha

"Shammai before we start, I want to give a shoutout to one of my newest patriots support as L. Patrons column when I'm a news Patriot point is a lady called Mandy Small I've I've been to remind the on on social media and other policies for Awhile Mundy as Monday is ex military she served twelve years enforces. P Dog Hunter but she's also an anomaly widow. Pot a her husband unfortunately took his life in two thousand and. Sixteen. and Monday as one of the biggest. Most the biggest energies I should say she was a huge amount of energy interview of mental health appointment military charities. On. On. Thank you Mandy small for all do for the military community and on people who suffer mental health, a mental ill-health should say. We also thank you for being a support Ron Patriot I I very much appreciate it I. Look Forward to catching you. We can zoom coconut soon, getting feedback on that patrons. If, you want to be part of the Patriot community alongside mandates on a lot of other legends than you can do it support me on the podcast. I. Create Art Patron Dot Com for Slash H, k, podcast thank you, and thanks again, Monday sponsoring the podcast today the odds group the group founded in nineteen, eighty two, and since nineteen eighty-two they've been saving lives and protecting people and I, it's against the global threat of exposure. People wouldn't do this through technically innovations. Odd Rock has concentrated design capabilities on the land mine clearance process, which would best suit the post conflict on humanitarian clearance on chose a rotating chain flail system. The also explore the possibility of using various commercially available vehicles for the role of prime mover, but found all those shortcomings and thus designed and built their own our to the needs of the ministry combat role in minefield breaching faulk cooperated with manufacturers of main battle tanks and armored personnel carriers, undesired designed flails, which could be added as a minefield breaching device after all. It was a British invention to flail on the front of Wilbur Chew Main Battle Tank for use in the Liberation of Europe, the consequence of that design philosophy as being to produce the most effective specialized vehicle for the destruction or detonation of landmines while permitting the flail system to be adopted for attachment to a mine field breaching Machina the task to clear the world of landmines is enormous. The estimate of numbers varies by certainly in excess of ninety million with some sources saying dot, the estimate is more like one, hundred, ten, million. The problem is not just number of minds but huge areas contaminated for example, a small countries such as Croatia, which is being well mop as an area four thousand square kilometers contaminated by minefields on randomly Scott minds four, billion scramming. CAESARIA clearance is the real issue. The cost of clearance prescribing. It was vital to commercial viability of the clearance process cost effectiveness. Fifty of the operators are of paramount importance to the aardvark group. You can find out more about the oddball group, all of support that gave the miniature community. An example of that is the sponsorship of this podcast. Another example of a is the military veterans they employ within aardvark. You can find out more about the ought group on odd Bach. Dot Group or you can search the the oddball group on social media there'll twitter share on link then they're on facebook unease instagram there flipping. Thank you. Thank you David See John Claflin roller support to the community and to bucks. You all legends also sponsored a podcast. They are rugby heroes, rugby heroes founded by Mike vallance and his good good friends out of old woman Sonia Sonya's RC workshop. They are a not for profit organization that raise money to support military Chinese. They do this through organizing events such as rugby festivals or individual matches. Beaming Gene Festivals Supper clubs basically exciting delightful events over rich people turn up participates under on raise money in the process for a military mentioned, they had a load event events planned for this year I have a the pond Democ Zappala thought to that. So they are waiting for the situation to improve to reschedule those events. You need to keep a tab on the social media, which is a rugby number before heroes on this on twitter Yeah. They're in Lincoln there on facebook as well. It keep it keep dominant because they're in amazing organization they're an organization steeped in military Yeah, history of support to the military on a fact, the reason they were founded One of the main reasons found was in the wake of a private, the death of private Joe Whittaker who was killed unfortunately, he was killed. Serving operations. Regiment enough gunnison I was into dozen nights onto rug. Heroes was founded at nine, and since plug the here is being around they have raised in excess of one hundred, ten thousand pounds, full military charities, which is a phenomenal amount when the team is so small and the or the events they run all relatively few we're talking one two or three events. You keep him small because they like to make each event as high-quality high impact as they can. So when you rock it up to rugby heroes event, you know is GonNa be obsolete. corker. So like I said, keep up to date up with rugby heroes. On such media, rugby number, four heroes, and also. Go to their Website Rugby F. O. eill heroes to rugby f while he was to. Say Thank you to Mike and wrote heroes in everything. You do support just at a podcast when Nelson to waitaminute community I can't thank you enough. Onto the podcast tonight my guest today is Mr. Simon Hama. We have been trying to get this podcast for a while and finally the stars aligned and where we got, we got dot an. Cup medical technician with Shami served with the Royal Army medical, corps. Unfortunately lost both legs in a in a on enough galveston. and. He's active service includes tools of Bosnia Iraq, and also the Congo on hopelessly. mentioned. Is really good guy he is currently since leaving as. I think I think is is recovery Headley cough like four hundred years as now an ambassador under employee of Thomas, Pontius shoes, and he is also co founder all Mike Alpha which you about in the podcast Mike Alpha is is an organization founded by to Equity Guys Simon Hammer on a good front undermine up so I really enjoyed this on. We had a good laugh. We really good compensation on you GonNa I. Think he gives you're gonNA join us one. So I set my guest is Simon Hama my name is Hugh This is The Hague our podcast joint. So continued the conversation I welcome. Do I finally made it? Up and down and up in. Glad you mentioned partridge proposed on it because I was going to ask you a lot on I was gonna say was a strikes me as the like your your Ambassadorship of Shoe Company strikes me as the solve the one of the best. Child friendly. Yeah military black humor things bloke who's got no legs. Is Ambassador for a Shoe Company Come about. Say. The boss The guy that ends too much Pasha's and He's a cordwainer and accord Wina is someone who designs and create shoes so you wouldn't cool. According Cobbler. Cobbler's. but he he's he's gone to shoe university. He knows everything about shoes. He. Wanted to. Breathe life back into the Thomas Partridge brand. it was a brand went bust in the last century and before that, they made shoes and boots. I as a matter of course. But then obviously the first world war in the second one core came along and they made boots for seven passes to wear. And that one of entrenches the first World War. And later on. They made a Camman die type BOOT and in a jungle type. So, pool. Wanted to to breathe life back into that brand and and revision vision you know make a lifestyle brand say oh, the pizza made from Lasts and last is is Is. The Is a is a wooden for. Practices and that's what you base. She won't whether it's a a Darby Shea a bribe or whatever is a Chelsea it comes from last and last is is is what? Is the shape of the for this made from? So he wanted to to breathe life back into this Branson I met Paul He lives in winchester by she met him through headache when also when I was re rehabbing that. He is. Very quiet very quietly done so much. For the veteran community. So he's run the London marathon in a pair of. Tom's project breaks. He doesn't hang up out He's he's quick. a cubby noted good Viennese. We just pull up Mike down slain. Leader? You booming. is at that. and then see did that a think about two or three years ago and then last year. Because he's, he's nuts he ran the London marathon dressed as seven kilos. So you've got this thing made and. EPA chased any any any ran the London marathon justices shape. It was like seven Keita's he couldn't breathe it properly. and. He did this all for Delivery Company that he's associate with in London and they then donate the money to various different organizations one of which was had lico. Defenseman reputations tried to call. and then, Stanford. Hall. So he's done. A lot for the veteran community and then of added to that point employing me. So if law saw two years of Donald, the social media for Thomas Partridge an as a small company is a startup. There's not there's not a lot of working for the organization He's. Pretty takes up. In court small portion of his time but it's actually something he's really really passionate about. And he wants to extend that say it's not just employ May We're also trying to soften and I'm Baillio, bit more environmentally aware say on based on a winchester not far from US simple math is a massive. so military surplus company. Huge massive. They get stuff from all over Europe. Through it down that we went go laser boots that. CanNot be nothing can be done with them and they would end up in landfill. Bits and pieces. So we got some tension. The tensioness we've got comes from somewhere and hungry Germany or somewhere. So we got the only took all the salvageable leather of them. And we got the tents and and we cut those into pieces and the ten is been used in a version of the broke the is produced about. Like Green Canvas army tons. Yeah. And that's been though in into the into into abroad. And then we take in portions of leather that we retrieved and built that into into shoes as well as it's not the whole shoe, his parts of the she because we want to demonstrate that you can still use. You. Can recent re recycling reuse damaged equipment so We will set there taking apart these boots and then like I said, parts of that will be used into new product say that not a whole shea is recycled but parts of it are the best we can do. So we just trying to prove a concept and we want to encourage the rest of the industry and what is what they started is So we're obviously getting these boots and someone's GonNa take part so. Plan this year. Type getting in the way was to use plasma veterans a few near me spend a day taking part these boots which they'll get paid for oh, and so we can use Clinton to this never to send off to the factory to be put together into to initiate and you put. an along the same lines as as this reusing idea. Recycling as a company that produce. insoles for the military coordinator. And you say is he's he's gone interest in his company these so's they've been proven to leg injury by sixty six percent. where taking all the off cuts. and. We're using those in the Nealon Shoe Week Oh so. Under the hill. we're building in there what is essentially their waste into making a more comfortable shave and but of course, you can't sell a shoot a block based on comfort. It just doesn't wildlife. ECON Selah Sheila. size we is. It's quite difficult explaining in almost but I wear these shoes I'm not jokin days are the most comfortable shoes of ever warm. And I can feel that through multiple sex. So normally I would get A. Bit in Aqaba and a pair of leather shoes. For that long. The shoes I can I can wear them Publio di. And actually a war on the on the recent advert hours in for the National Laurie are SORTA. How did you get in front of the queue that La as far as? I just played the Cobb might disabled. Decision I. Call Me Rigor. Good cards plate. Yeah. Disabled by. Now like why you'll ever face I mean you could do a makeup but. It was a good Gig and actually in that came from. The network because it was. An Amazing Woman Kota Allison island she used to work for help for heroes and she's oversee laughed in other. Different companies and she contacted me out of Louisville insists said Oh you know there's this project coming out which let get involved. I didn't really have an expectation format it. Went Down for shoot which was done in Square down in London will barracks. Ahmet. Bumped into another made style network with Dan. Richards is an amazing blake. he's very He's GonNa Amazing Story in. He's more into that world than I am anyway he so of basically Educate me a little bit on the expectation was and I suppose the rest is history because this is a good for. You know I didn't realize how much has been donated from the national service charities, but they've done a lot. To ever just a on knock accusing national lawyers do you ever? I feel like pimped out all all people are. 'cause people can be especially in business people can be extremely. The extreme lack of empathy on they see see right? We need what we need the service person in eastern I'm not on a on Blah. Blah Blah Blah Blah, and then an older center is actually doing it just because. There's because it because of the financial benefit going go gonNA without any I'm not saying, I'm saying this happened sometime must do without any consideration for the emotional impact. Okay. Is How can we? How can we actually help the people who are going to incorporate into our? You know in our campaign whatever ever Phil? I'm not I'm not saying that now won't read it all by the way none if you if you watch that video not once today thanks on my legs once. And I could have done they could've they could've they could've smash that and they didn't. So. As cash in the bowl and of course, in A. Shape, oh, that's why through it back again because it was a football. But? Not, once did they did they search the comment to my legs and someone else saw mentioned that and they were like I'm really pleased they didn't do that because. You know they could have done. That could have really so over. They could helmet that that sort of thing they didn't. but want you question? Yeah they're all GonNa. Do that and sexploitation. Exploitation because especially when. We can just turn around bts but I think anybody with an incapacity in some in some way shape or form. quite early on. Eight must be a challenge an iron. Oh you. Must be a challenge. Joined the stunned how? How People's perception of you change don't know you. Change and our people can like look through exploit. We when I say weaknesses on like physically I'm on about the the guys. Of the person who is now in a different position life on understand that they're slightly unique people they want to exploit them for very little or no reward if you like they'll call exposure the exposure do you get but you can't take special to the bank. You can't feed your kids exposure. A big. a big company. That's over Financial Auditing Company. they find me up and said. We were you know we we want you to come to talk. Bombing. Soy Oil may head on. No. So usually do plan a day the previous day. If I'm GonNa do talk the day will be purely based on planning a today we're going to say I'm practicing it. They wanted me to drive out to banning and such travel with getting by car or train. They wanted me to talk in the evening. So six can even, and then obviously the next day I'd have to drive home say an I nine south. The next I'll. Be. Packages well. So essentially not three days my life. I WanNa, start a token. You know I said to. This conversation because being in the military not. Your told your wife, you're not. you don't so speak about your west to other people every day you get confidential poor and you're told you're worth saying when you leave the minute training, then you're exposed to the corporate world is very difficult. Still Fun uncomfortable even. So Eleven in two, thousand, fourteen I still find the conversation really really difficult. I said to me you know what your budget because obviously, this is this is my job. They so unfortunately, we can only offer expenses. On is like. We're having this conversation. Don't weigh in my head. and. I was like, well, this is how our support my family So you, you want me to come up there. Basically I for nothing. Really. I still. Wife of May say. Can you come down and Babysit my kids but unfortunate, all our fear is expenses to come and do it. Anyway, the conversation kind of went the way you'd expect. And didn't end up going to. But actually I'm still a little bit guilty of of of of saying they'll do something I'm a moth guy and you're getting paid for it. And if I choir she, she knows full well. I'm not getting paid for it. It's difficult or I is the I understand it's difficult. I'm because on the one hand. He there you when you at speaking to people they again. So benefit not. So it's it's. You know in the Avenue hard conversation without company you don't WanNa pay. Yeah. Because tight US know exactly what to in a same time expensive. The people could be listening benefit from what you talk about fifty. They want you there because you you inspirationally motivational got really box throwing younger amazing guy on an must be part of the struggle with it. Someplace accepting things with. You should be chargeable. Yeah you know an. been. A almost like a sliding scale for for some stuff on paid a couple of hundred. and then I've been fortunate enough to be paid quite well for other things that is. The exception rather than the rule. And that might be every other year where I'll get like the Golden? Goose. This whole speaking? So game. an interesting conversation with some of the other guys and goes during. I think people earning ten grand a GIG if they. Are. Than Good on them. That's not my experience. On. That's the way I anyway. It's A, it's A. It's a funny. Oh c'mon and people do want to take advantage of you and I always got my wife's to charities particularly tried he's like bless MMA. An incredible charity they've been there for me from the beginning very quietly as well They. They on based in London said, they don't pay massive rents on on on buildings. They've got a small amount of of staff who are very dedicated to that charity. They raise a huge amount of money share but will they do that money's? They've really stretch and make it work. Say. On white do anything for. Plasma, because they're such a good organization and I support so many different things naturally. Any other charity that Well. They, they support making generation all which allows. Members to come into schools and deliver workshops in schools based on resilience. So I've done I've been involved with making generation off probably about four years up into schools universities up into per pupil referral units which are for kids have been excluded from mainstream education. been all over the country delivering a workshops. To to to laser kits as have led by the mettler members and we've hit thousands is generation the name of the initiative. As an off offer resilience making imagination all explained me. How will it looks like what you communicate information lessons you give it. So Simply or go in I'll give a twenty minute version of of Montauk and aimed at the group that I'm speaking to. and then afterwards along with. So, facilitator will then go through workshop and the workshop will look like We'll talk about cutting mechanisms what? Facts. To begin with, we'll talk about threats to to to to them right now whether it's Social media pair pressure. home life. It could be all sorts of things. Then we'll talk about coping mechanisms and what bad commission mechanisms bike. And what we do get the kids to masterpiece of paper they it and the other kids joe around them and then we per different. Different renamed the person I'm talk about what situation they're going through, and then at the end, we'll talk about what positive The mechanisms at like. And for me that basic like getting outside raising your heart rate little, I'm breathing in the fresh air so you don't go and. Smash out a Amerson. It could just walk in the park or even you know set walking to the park sitting down in Russia and then we'll go back I. IT could be as simple as that. So that's basically what the workshop looks like in a nutshell. And of course, sometimes has to be. Changed to sue you speaking today. But. They send it around schools, colleges, and universities. Of Oh say up into Prison Dining Swazi, and talk down there which was. Incredible speaking to their that veteran community, the prisoner of course, I speak in Speckman National Health Service Choir Lauren and my former life being a medic that kind of that dovetails. Nicely and then we will say. A IN A. Farmer gator. Around the as well. So there's different strings to the making general. Making generation resilient. So pirates it were. It's it's. A and. That's that's run by the joy project but it supported financially by plasma. They pay us to do it and they the any charity events knowledge that will pay that beneficiaries to decent think. And it's not huge money but it's the acknowledgement of your time. your effort. And your, ability. and. ME, A scenarist habit for some people it's it's almost essential. To your promised about six gigs a year to you, and you might get more than that. That amount that's more money. Could be lost changing for some of the other members. And it's an acknowledgment of your worth and that is so important and my experience with some of the other charities where was delivering Similar SAUVE. Mo Speaking different events in bits and pieces I did feel will out did feel really taken for granted for particularly them when I was escort that by a member of the chart US getting paid and everybody else in the room is getting paid apart from Mug ines. Who? was just kind of wheeled out. And you know that it goes back to what you're saying on your own I was exploited over exploited. And He got. A Go to do in the condone anymore. But will placement Dan is. Is is is incredible to. I. I have noted that I hadn't heard about generation I. I really sound about. One of the things I've been I've been paying a lot of. Little. More. Into just you know way driving right Mad As. The. Obviously on the mental health side of things but just general mental health of the. UK population. On. Why maybe on how we improve we? We generally bring up the average state of mental health in UK. How do we do it and an inert me now I mean in the long run and I think the One of the. We all have everybody has we you and I probably more knowledgeable than most UK on the subject mental health how impacts you positively negatively won't choose their archer to help you cope with or improve your mental health or your mental ability. At specific times or generally on it Anita, prepare a speech, for example, do some. Revision I difficult meeting to go to A. Family event. Donor the funeral Goto. Setting yourself up to four challenges are coming up as in specific examples. Then just generally bringing, you know improving improving your mental health I. Think the the reason is a It's not was the moment is just the knowledge that people have you. One of the UN is event the literally the consciousness of their mental state onto the tools there are available. Say Fallible we'd like you were saying little things like. I, say all the time I hate I repeat myself because Pete pollution punk suck. He's buying on about Gannett site getting over walk by on again. But I want is free exempt one of the examples right I'm. Not to improve the knowledge you have to start. At the school level of the child level in the home. But also in school, one of the things I really think would be really good to bring in. So simple wouldn't cost. Anything would be the start of each lesson I every lesson on his preschool star each lesson there is a two minute earth remained meditation session by a not is not be saying everyone should meditate all tight. Because he doesn't work for benefits, people different different ways but at school and a child level one, introduce them to that meditation to and Practical Sense. It's she's Brin off from the previous lesson. Read sets get ready for the next lesson and three introduces them to the benefits of changing your mental state how easy it is to do on in this case, the doing it with meditation. Attention because it's two or three minutes, I'll sit down and doing nothing white class shuts. Is Three minutes necessarily. Have to be guided just say did three minutes silence shut the F. up johnny you're always wanting. You know that that's it margin do not every lesson. You at the end of just primary school or even just doing it for one term, those kids be exposed to meditation. Mental States. I guarantee you to be more responsive in those lessons each time because the reset their brains more alert like the brand clear going into that religious education and said like history. Just. And that's why generation offering the it sounded really really positively. The government should should absolutely make a curriculums in all schools Noel educational establishments not there is mental health on that whether or not his own standalone lesson whether it's thirty minutes a week when by these three magna infrequent because those people become going to college or Uni will adults they can be much more resilient, much more resilient. What does that mean more than people last ill-health less physical mill in help that mentally ill health less straight on the NHS less costly the UK taxpayer last impact, the government. Unless less cost, the government means what warning for government. Exactly. Okay. It's it's like a no brainer. Fixed it right. When I left the military I left in two thousand four and I want decent. Completely. I want to do something completely removed from. Spurs ministry and I did a course in hypnotherapy hypnotherapy. Hit Matthias. Councilman who I can't even pronounce any hypnotherapy authentic. Therapeutic Council. Says it. Hit therapy is hypnotherapy. Isn't what you see on the TV you cannot make someone do something they really that want today hypnotherapy in its purest form. Is. Safer example you drive to work on a on A. The Guy Everyday and when you saw joining. And you get out you can't remember I can't remember getting it. That is hit MMA therapy pierce fool. If you're going to run. and you're lost in the moment. That is a form of hypnotherapy. Explain explain explain our say. I used as a technique now to get to sleep. I I used to lie in bed and think about the the the hundred things done. Hundred things I need today oviously is think about this won't be collapse because that's GonNa one day and making plans for that happen I've got right now I say him therapeutic counseling for me. The one takeaway I got for that was how I could get myself to sleep. and the weather now is i. Claim a mind and think about the one place I'd love to Bay for me is on top of a mountain looking down. This. Into this valley and in a distance I can see the say 'cause obviously our Kant can climb mountains anymore will I? Day, for could be but if I could be bothered. Sunol used to I used to level the I used to love mountain climbing or. Whatever? CODA and and so I, think about this. This solve. Image in my head and it doesn't take me long to get to sleep. I'm for most people. If you say, what's one place you'd love to be it'll be on a beach listening to the waves. That's why they'd love to be and so. Actually all is doing is clearing your mind. And thinking about one thing. So it's kind of like I suppose you could equate it to outgun count shape cleaning I mean that works a no one because why would anybody WANNA watch sheep? Count Sheep. Why would they WANNA do that? That's that's kind of the cliche thing you told Gandhi but hypnotherapy counseling They've kind of proved as well where they have got someone to go through. A twenty minute guided session and they've connected them up, they've Clinton both out to to brain one of his to see what they doing. and. These. Persons receive the treatment and the president's giving the treatment. That brainwave start to have a similar. Start to sink. Say there's got to. There's got to be something into you know is not The the cliche thing of what I'm GonNa make you bought Clock Cadogan and do something stupid on stage is a completely shy what as is about changing it perception by by Spike's layering your subconscious. Layering you subconscious? Yeah. Say on people that can do this The people have been helped To give smoking or to lose way or actually you know you can. You can buy someone through what is going to be like in drink pouch chalk button that they can be given techniques, breathing techniques, bits, and pieces like that. So hit Matthias counseling as. I am no way not an expert on all of it, and actually a Miami takeaway was hot get sleep at night and Just purely that. I was worth during the course. For me. And I just WANNA decent those random in. hippyish. I. It just changed your mental state so. Changing stay up by an. Doing it by get you to focus on something a real. Tiger. Yeah and when I swim on, obviously I swim a lot and. I probably reach A. Similar situation where I'm. Head down in the water. And come out with amazing days which are then forget soon after the water. But why haven't gotten fun to me is that screen or any anybody else in my air bothering me for that hour in the water. And I'm looking into the water, I la, the water debris and If the code, Wasserman. Than of. This even even I'm going deep because actually I really got to concentrate one wondering with. Well how swimming what else? Really concentrate won't fail inside 'cause I don't WanNa, get to a position where I can't even gather water. All. I'm you know I'm I'm baggage console yourself out so Off Swam. To you know the coach of Ghana's Bob, five of just five degrees and you've got to be really self aware about what you're doing that temperature and. you could enjoy yourself nate buddy and you could hit a plan that you can even gather water safe self woman joy afterwards. The the depth also really interesting whatnot on something that isolate relearned or the last over the pandemic actually. This is the lockdown with one of the most beneficial things as being selected military boulevard. On this. Especially when you're talking about the main you you go, there's no sensory inputs, you your brain and not as an I going as probably most people who go run in. Hon. Going to any kind of fitness like that. Maybe you can get those waterproof buds Kanye by. Running definitely. On a gym it's like a default is to get some headphones music on why was doing this list podcast by really busy with podcast and then I decided icon white I. Think was along the light it was to do with just my experience meditation experiences with just. Practicing focusing without an without anything like mentioned, poor getting the Sauna unlike the the twenty minutes on I go outside the I was going to double up on meditate in that I would do that by count twelve, hundred, twelve, hundred, second twenty minutes. So I wouldn't look at the clock close. And I'm conscious posture get bob up I'd try the crackpots Janine being right. You're GonNa try and count the twelve Madrid and. One to the cadence of one second time on Cielo when I feel I can go before Britain posture. Used to sit resource unintuitive. Go Open is all getting uncomfortable because he is not comfortable in also when I like ninety degrees. an. I was doing the timing on. Muscle memory. If you liked the brain muscle memory, I was able to count not always twelve hundred I usually get eight, hundred, nine, hundred. Of Posture and then maybe be my eyes I. But my brain would be automatically counting. I wouldn't be thinking about the counting on doing it mates crazy. Oh I will. The brain is I would get twelve hundred and look at the clock. I would usually almost all fuck think every time was within thirty seconds to admit it when t minutes bang on yeah it is. It's amazing but I've done loads and loads and loads and loads right starting off I only get five and it's just been even sitting Solna though minute twenty minutes not. My brain autopilot and counting for me would not be able to think about IT I. During the things not not the button I started leaving ahead when I started to get back into running probably start Komen dot. Your loved one to be a day. I thought going to make the most of US everyday regal running. And I went headphones in an exactly like you said on. Ideas different different viewpoints onto issues or situations and stuff that's going on on the they were amazingly beneficial whether it's a twenty minute run or an hour amazingly beneficial an even like did not have any ideas are old like like Eureka moments which happened almost two months I certainly came off them. I was like just felt better spun I the physical activity but to because my brain on had nothing to worry about not phone laptop nothing and not just folks on running an unwanted does is it allows you those situations where? You not bombard newsouth with outside information. It allows us now to do that thing which very very few people do is go depth of. Just one level down. One level down from your normal consciousness one level down think a little bit more about that conversation you family member early that I think more about the issue you. Think of it more the what you want to do the rest of the day of the week, what you're doing life it just we we've lost with the advent of smart energy what hundred percent and I think one is a really big impact on on. Society this mentally, you know while being in well being sense. Sense is a huge thing because we never we never address in. Our our emotions immense stay we'll do it anymore. We used to don't do anymore now. This is mental health his generally if you know after Google's after. His mental health of the nation is taken a decline of the last six years left looking at data. I also WanNa see I, want a divorce rates been like since two dozen sense other night when social. Media. Yeah. I reckon on Joey's funny with the out I'm in Buna first-quarter, Halley core and. Because a lot of have been threatened. They will be concerned about traumatic brain disorders. and. We've been thrown when we got blown up and we landed on, you know we landed on a heads. All we were. Where we landed. Rattling inside the helmets. You can get you can get TB I from just the blast without you mean thrown I don't know if. A lady called Monday Boston on number ninety nine and she's A. She's A. Specialist. Trauma Psych. Did you listen? You did. This time I've done. Well with to 'cause specifically about almost entirely by. The Lost Traumatic brain injuries on people physiologically neurophysiological impact on how guts. Is, attributable. Manny Manny mental health this old is not. Exponentially, you people facing. Yeah. he it's. A bit of a frustration listen some clients. People in significant parts of governmental organizations into speeds, and so people get cheaply but she does a really good job explaining what you what you hope that that the mental the great bring soldiers knows those last explosions village funny when I when I got there from fast meeting an awesome wheelchair. So, south down and. I study three. So I'd had a little bit life when I go ahead. And was presented by three solve paper. Question. I'm out of the third time I've been asked do I WANNA self-harm? Oh, a doe and commit suicide was a bit pissed off to the city. And? I thought to myself of some of the younger lads my aunt's these questions. To avoid. the negative answer. They might beyond they might ons these questions just to. Basically get past this. These these question is because I thought ultimate guide down have a conversation. And have a chat with somebody an experienced. Psychologist who was going to assess me to save unneeded any further treatment? And my wellness backup to the water, the Peat Long. And spoke to the nurses and in a really matter fact voice and said I'm really angry because unexplained while as angry. But it didn't hey, why said They just had the always angry. So as back down there the next day for anger management. And they didn't kind of like listen to sign They just they just heard the words or said, they didn't kind of like. Unravel wa San. But. Anyway I went down in an. Anger Management The younger management sessions. Like Why explains to them? I said, look the reason why am I on down is is because of this I said I'm worried that some of the guys it GonNa GonNa kind of miss out on treatment because the way they're being assessed. I'm on prep. Perhaps I, was wrong I brought. So's wrong in an in an Moi. So basic assessment will I saw was something wrong but I just didn't want legs missing out on treatment really and and. So I went by way tonight. But I wasn't it was funny because it wasn't angry just said Austin, said, those words I am angry in that tiny is well. And install like come. In a shouting and banging hand on the table as like. A mini angry. Right. Out By down that could end up management. There was. Without. Yet discussion as they were. I think they start now. The. They side. Roy People General Organization general not just China is but those kind of question as. Like. Culprits while trying to stand so of the Ino the. State of the workforce is like on there but I think they've me from the direct questions to. Ask in lots of other questions. It's quite easy wants. To make for into some matrix to make up the. Workforce? Pulse. Even there they feel respected and Nola Salmon Chinese. Because the problem with some questions, it's like. It's so hard to answer honest objective and Kanani Saudi triple cites psalm. How happy am? On a scale of one to ten, how happy do you feel how? Are, we wanted you feel in life today. Well, Wolf Ten is not. Every two seconds going you're mazing Hugh, Zeros I people telling you also not I. I would interpret the question on then it depends on our field day day actually be called in the answer is I could be six days at seven. Yeah Mega Not Bay of the real crop day on the gun home. I got a few pockets arable me putting the to with it. You know it's Difficult you can. You can wake up in the morning after his narrow and in some of them. Happen during you. By the time, you get to work you pissed off. I'm in. I I ad- tat I. Got some. Big Offense Luke Luke Lacey London on. Is being there was one day one night on I ended up rising Thomas I think Thomas found. On late night. Live nearly always like come you drive you. Are Absolute toddlers on the phone like justice back on I drove to them. And I. I. I walked into the living room I'm. Right. But yeah, I I was I was incomplete. Thomas but. But at the point I walked in there because I was all of sudden around my mates and I knew there was no you know I can be completely trusting of them on there was no prejudgments or anything like that on I was absolutely fine on his. You could see it was. Thinking being up but like. And I was I was feeling so good I was like I was smiling leagues I laugh at Bach like an ECON control. It's almost like pretend to be your show pretend to be a MO-. Like an hour ago, only will clip. I was just so happy to see on again that's just an example of how things change quickly dependent situation you presented with is really really difficult suggests that a not is a demonstration of how much of a challenge is. To deal with a lunatics like us. And she ida shipped this morning so I find I found out Mama Andy. Andy from facebook Andy Marlow good lottery maybe even come on the podcast yeah mega blow. I A man that never ages an. Benjamin Button Guy Nyanza I find him on this morning in see we've started this. Is Not for profit like I'll and and actually that was born out of. Frustration of leaving the miniature little bit so. I was he andy was enrolled greenjackets. and he's left the ministry a long time ago. Around the House to New Zealand. Put? Himself through university. Found an iron taken close obviously the green greenjackets on that didn't know barons. and You know he's as during an amazing job. With with facebook in an Auditor GIG for facebook loss share actually with my generation. And East no know we really hit it off fairway we tell me so I wanNA make this organization. He said I know what it looks like I want to view. I was like, oh And in. An the end las jet it kind of. Done this background work and it was it was good to go. So basically with my cowper, it's It's trying to encourage people. from the military and from winds from the whole community. Really. To get involved in digital marketing well. My girlfriend on the web and I asked Yeah. Yeah. And The struck me was actually there was nothing spouses. So when on injured my wife really get anything at all. and she was kind of going around. She's actually the one that sacrifice I think the most. she lost her career and you could argue anybody could occupies which she could have gone back into work but then I'll catch them getting pregnant and Clearly TV for Christmas. Or, a bigger TV tonight. Anyway say. Thou compensate from what happened to me. It didn't compensate me for Walk Milwaukee. country. And of course, they may day on the military, not the army con compensate ridiculous to you and expect it but. I'm I think, spouses and partners. I'm probably obey mom and dad's of of been forgotten or the carrot immediate cares have been forgotten about this person they've been going about this whole process. Surgery and to me that the spouses involved in Catholic program you know. So we've we've run. Three Courses One's been physical course. we've won t funded virtual courses obviously is going the way of everything and messed up plans, and then we will start to roll out some webinars as well. and. This is a hobby for million they. We're not benefiting from this in any way but. We. On on the stuff. Really WanNa give the opportunity for people to to to learn new information and use it for this small business or to go into industry. in some of the spouses of already got jobs in in as social media managers in in different organizations so. We really proved the concept and and we want it to go from strength strength. Is it's I'm really excited about more Catherine what it can do. It seems really cool. My just again on the fucking legend, not guy. He's one of these people so modest with it. about what he got he does a huge amount. Not, through facebook and also other things might be example brilliant guy. Own Longtime Like discovery he's balance. I haven't yet no joking on the mega now yet Mike Alpha Is entrusted one of the I. Mean this is one of the things we very entrepreneur me. She Folk I think generally speaking really entrepreneurial because well, whatever. And One of the things. One of the misconceptions of thing is when you when you embark on a new venture, beat up another prophet beat. crowdfunding. deuce reasonably money you. You'll be the actual actual business profit making business. It seems not tells me thing to do. It's very easy to do at a very, very, very basic level. It is very difficult. I think to do without any educational training very difficult to effectively I in I'll be I'll be getting on it was like ethical sunny with him I'm Linden not just in the podcast things is hard and but we don't think we just we relate to the pie to realize that sometimes. So Mike Outlooks amazing and the Mississippi webinars. Now I've not I've missed a missed the two I want to go but I'm she she's really good and Who Was it? We are I think nick. Goldsmith had Bush. Gossiping was one of the five day courses was knee Show if he's been on Haimovitz. Louise's been on our think this is Louise's yeah. I just think it's it's another stringer to it people because we don't we don't ever WANNA charge the veterans that's never going to happen, and these is you know way ready rocky because jellyfish are delivering the training forest. They are subject matter experts and it's not the the usual British chip shop version of of what good looks like they are. They really are good at what they do through that trainers are. They not just People that read that they've they they've worked in industry and they've delivered. Campaigns for huge organizations, sleigh know what they're talking about they really do. AND THEIR CAUSES EXPENSIVE COURSES they've they've given jellyfish, give us that training for free. We're never going to is never going to be would never gonNA take money off a veteran or a sleeve or spouse. Always, GonNa. Find a way for that to be paid. not. So next challenge in again, Kobe's going away this no pet. Also going to try and find a way. where if it's needed to pay travel and accommodation because sometimes that's a block. For, people to to to to join courses or to get training And actually the virtual system what quite well, I will say and he's looking about getting So home course where you can just do of course on yourself your time. United with backup if you need you know. Say, there's going to be different ways to access the training. So just just. Some clear. My mind. Mike Alpha is basically teaching people how she social media more effectively is it in in one sense? but also. The boats on of being able to get mental and mentorship is something that are then think is used enough in UK. because. Having a mentor being a mental makes you better a better human. Because if you're mentoring someone. Song it off. Often Attention Alba mentioned someone you actually having to give your game every time you go into into work if you'll being mentor Joe Learning from someone who's giving them a game, and actually everybody should be mentoring every single level when I think this is something that's missing from perhaps the The you know. The Officer Corps could squared away they they they caught degrees maybe they'd go maybe and there's a there's a lot less open and of course it I think is a little easier for them. I think that the. The rest of us. The I was the ordinary ranks we should. We should be mentoring each other and put it into enough of and we didn't. Think about doing enough. We should be mentioned people even the ministry and we should be mentioned. Those are just left them in a tree. That should be a whole procession of of of us being mentor and being mentored. I'm being mentors And anyway so mark half is going to deliver that part of. As a as a package that you can get mentor to tell you, we did Roy Moore eating wrong and if it's required Rousse GonNa find a way to place people as well. Again, this is this has been a little bit just because of Covid at the moment, but there will be a waiter access placement or internships a maybe work some point well. Yeah, the meant or I completely agree. So Mike, the company I work for Amazon they they of a mentorship program that inch internally I think he's really involved directly I think is quite informal but. He's a really positive thing. Is I think it's on a think it might just be the graduates other undergrad juicy there but it was really agree in especially in Algebra entrepeneurship site the people I've met was a very lucky. They may not even realize no metals Sunday who's got more Business Sacremento arguably, no Mike volonte is. A sold them at a mental to me on the business side on especially on the chart excite you not on their. On keeping. Maintain in. The right direction what what you aiming to do went chargeable or business sense. But. Yeah, the placements will be good. Some compensation the last year. I sat went up a friend of my good friend. Poke it on his. was still looking at me with. Around this kind of stuff. So I'm confident that that will not be possible as you mentioned not yet. We should talk this. Mentions conversations we. Evolve any Monsanto some capacity. Yeah. positive compensations about. Paul ended up. Leaving, Massat I'm D-. Code. You know this, you know obviously what am I gonNA charge Betcha training, but perhaps it will be a road out to other interested parties. Some point which they'll have to pay it will be to pay to support the veteran. So. Put the veteran community spouse an even. If dependence if it suits independent because obviously. You. We again, we just don't want this training to. we want it to be completely inclusive for the whole veteran community. So part of an Eve independence if it fits a the right criteria independence as well, but we don't want is people just jumping on the training or the course. That just finds the free course there's got to be relevant so whether you're running a small business or you go into the industry is not just our fancy free course. Because these courses are all valuable and. In a way are filling every single space, every single course we often into spaces. You are you guys registered with veteran owned UK? Oh Yeah. We know skoll. Okay. Nice Go. Okay. So you registered with veteran owned on. Cases on that because one of the things about do literally this week A. Sponsor podcast with Sony Vision for people watching watching this on Youtube on the Audio version of the star at the end is while the plugs, the people sponsored Rugby Heroes Neon Mock Group for two months at the moment I want space for us. So what I what I'm GonNa do is I'm GONNA I'm. GonNa, offer up. Free makes a free advertising space on the podcast full veteran owned businesses. I'm going to do it for probably three or four months. So I a business we'll get free sponsor on your front of from. One thought that. Gives me. To. Demonstrate. The impact that pocock not four sponsors. And chimps benefit the gap to it's also GONNA get those businesses who get off sponsorship is going to give them an insight into how impactful. Advertise podcast off could podcast. Kostelic. Is it the relatively new thing right on? It's a really different that it's really difficult as I understand. Mafra. Me On. It's very, very difficult to try and demonstrates to a potential sponsor. the value of. How valuable the of the Roi GonNa get after I can stop because traditionally. The reservoirs place people go when they WANNA look how big? How much reaching an organization's they go to social media right wondering. especially with H is. Their social media that the the appearance of social media as in the follows Scott he's not representative of the the reach ask because 'cause man I, mean it snows. Thousand Times Times listening to podcast, but he's not thousands and thousands and thousands of followers and social media. I'm. On. So that's what I want to use. This gives gives US companies veteran on copy some ties. It also get more knowledge of the South American Stanton because it may not work for them. You know you may not be the right space in Zimbabwe style no in an a a medium is relatively A. Relatively misunderstood. Still fully understood yet. Yeah. On again like I said it'd be. Able to demonstrates I oppose it is because I know when I mean westbound sponsors anymore unfortunately. Not Enough Studio. They bought a a big impact Kobe bought Pete about costs. So. Lock. Them. Aspect yes. Because a lot of causal. West. Bay. Just off saying West forever. PODCAST. Formerly, even the. Even the MIT's. Entertains you got like a years worth of Rico. That's. Not to be sniffed. What's an MIT like fifty quid? If I. Should never they shouldn't switch off shouldn't switched I think. The also switched they switched off all lists monthly ship most ship stuff because they were sponsoring them at devils as well at night and switched not off. Show I should I should this with my good friend Tony Lewis who was the MD Weser list on is not then he was not there when these decisions are made. By devils search, Nov pay channels, publisher pushed off and whatever else sham real. Shame. Shame because it's a veteran community militia. The militia hope back on when. When things turned chuck. They have an business. Could examples like come podcast and socialization meeting and kind of go hand in Hanadova Bet. And There's that example I like inner safey turn a he played San. Big Fan don't Miss. Don't tell a big fan of Sophie China. Yeah. Yeah. So she got the job gain frame Jan. do you know how she got the job now? And this is an were three one. She got the job because she had a big following on instagram. And that she said, there's better actresses and actors the wind for that par and the reason why she got that job because she had a bigger farming on social media. I believe I. can't believe it because it's it didn't make sense. I saw people probably a generation blue has. You know like not generation below with me five ten years. But yeah it makes sense because it's more exposure for the documentary or the production of the film on ever is being done in and another example say on the on the Web Ni- Yesterday a something that I'm I was they sent to the web nice and it was all about maximizing employ of advocacy on link ten. and. So. As an example, jellyfish are post. and. People may or may not so of entrapped with post however. The employees, it's not something that they're told to do from jellyfish, but don't get onto it if it's relevant to their niche. Was the American that Niche. For Canadian ruining the language. Post that post with their own take on what that means? And because an Clare soon, personally will get like. Ten likes when it's reposted with. A person's interpretation that I. It. Tom's ZIP by ten. The One how many people are seen SIA and also the uplift in engagement to that post. But there's comment likes. Whatever it is. Goes on say. Again with costs sometimes, you can't necessarily see the benefit unless it's actual Samuel by whatever is but I think that. Is. Definitely. That is the other one is the other like normally with Ripon Kassy's. I'll know. The other normally is another traditional place. People go when they want to see the IM- how big a reach, an organization house or whatever or purpose, and Hawes is they go to the website look at website data, another anomaly podcasts so if you go to. So, one of the things you like to look if you're a business, the website he unite to look, you won't like to know how many how many How many people visit you website and then they've come back. So yeah twenty percent four, percent sixty, percent eighty, percent one how last one of the statistics? How often they come back for podcast for example, is some of my podcast by a Google search on the end up on the website Charlie one, dot com then they find the podcast, right but. Then, all on the West links I, choose link Google, podcast, linked YouTube link spotify Lincoln Olah they click onto that what do they do then when they not list podcast, they use one of those apps they don't go they'll go to the website time they go another the puck out the spotlight subscribed Oh apple podcasts. That's it's quite they don't go back through websites. No. Neat so that just a podcast front, it's not relevant an account I put on ship decks together a deck together before on it's a real challenge in its go look 'cause I like the statistics in there Trying to explain. The return to website a small. This is why it's a small percentage much lower than normal notre organization would be other the PUCK. This is why because people don't need to go back they don't consume fucking podcast on charge only one come every time I don I go and I found you know veteran state of mind I found that on its website I've I've been the website once ever I still listen to veterans it might you know listen examples difficult again, going back to just I sought simply Mike Alfred away just eats we have we have knowledge very lucky. We have reached the veteran community military community. Just short share information trying to try and communicate and especially business front businesses silver. Yeah getting ahead and social media. So difficult, the more help the better unhealthy normally costs a bomb. Yeah. And that's why air always be free and and an upper post on instagram yesterday because sometimes ghetto bit frustrated like a hunger management ego back. No I'm not angry I'm I'm raging me. I think we can do more to help each other like and they thought means. Even. If you don't like someone or if you don't like call, they've got to sell or fun. Cat August guy if I say something and Save Veterans, dinner? More not like I'm going to open their books they've just so play. But WANNA shy on Demonstra I want to support the communities best I canton saga by the coffee, and of course, I'll drink the coffee obtained by the t shirts and and you know one of my favorite brands at the moment is sinise Godal of just even just a just love everything about. You gotTA. Get. A my wife. Let me. She's Let me. Just, don't want to be a disappointment. Moving swiftly on. Yeah. I just think we could do more like as a community. We could do more to support each other other than Warren about how successful people are I think we if we build each other up We rise. By building each other. Up. Say. If I'm helping tonight. Jordan wally for example, and as an amazing Blakenham proud to known. Everything on of support. So He is obviously dentist paddle around the UK the moment. When a? On a Stan pedaled the man's bonkers. Sita picture for out yesterday before on on the Bulls on that Potter born think is in the Irish. Sea. Yeah. On this give it no. No. I couldn't even see the board because the size of the waves I could just see chest and the wave in front. He's my man I mean he's what is taking I think. It's it's. Incredible what he's doing? I wanted to demonstrate. His benefit took company that was supported him. So he's dating with the red original and he's giving them. You know they've supported him on his journey read read original. Yeah. Thilagkar Stein Edible Company, and they've got some awesome pretty awesome kit garishly. and stuff that I can use as April swimmer. Value. To them the been delivered by him, I went on their website and Boston. Just. Wanted to say to show that the he was valuable to them in some way Didn't tell because she had him shoot a mental But yeah. I always I tried desperately to to to support staff even if to like or share. Even Denmark what someone's Paranal on. Go on and and do something to offer some sort of benefit to them. I mean. I. I try now that I'm sort of getting a grip myself and which includes financially I tried to without trying to south. It's. It's a nice do because we understand are difficult is once thought Yukon quick jewel comedy Jason. Taylor. Algorithm of Yeah I've got what I did is I thought again to kickstart Sarah Mike Mike Vallance mate he so mike is unsure what. Might, be saying he he is SUBSCRI- subscription with contact coffee. He gets more coffee thrown in a month than you can shake a stick out ECON literally too much. Drink is too much to give away. He gave me a blogger racing the box from last month. It's like Jesus Christ that he hasn't turned subscription of because he's eaglets he likes to just like support. On the late these people are out out. There is amazing and like you said. He only knows about through other. Than military people who have you know talk promoted contact coffee in the presence of social media same as I, the only reason I have. Donated a quick quick. You'll car company on kickstarter his because I was exposed to them by Jason Tony's fucking. That's otherwise never seen him like my yeah. Because the other one of the big things I think one of the big lessons I learned I learned it. Initially from a guy called Nick McCarthy it MCI vicks to Pie runs a to power you as a company up in US, Cloud Protection Training Company on operational in durant called August you're. One of the things I learned really early. Honest. He works security. Investigations Industry a ninety eight bloodless. Being, involved in it is Mukhlis. Mate I an give the worst end of as the door door awoken doors those. Yeah. Those it is ruthless they up. They will stop it in the box before you even done a full one eight from the bright as it preferably for proverbially. I'm one of the things at Nick. Is. One of exposed to Mechanical Entrepreneur, lots of militia and they set up secure era restorations companies on Nick has the chew dot he will. Is in, he will help them acknowledge on on on on knowledge information pointing the right direction to these competitor companies on paper. Right? We'll see August you're very established, but you will help them nonetheless even though the competitors because. I can also refer books if he gets. So this is one the things that happens again especially, the door we can scale which. Nicholas deal with. It genital secure industries. Let's Say I. AM company be you know and I am I, get someone icon do the people on capacity I have to turn it wait they took away. They don't want nick does is he will go I. can't do not but I know a company that can. He referred that client who he could get money for. Them to a different company, how the same beliefs billy's neck in terms of Manpower and stuff but a top saw, that's I'm able to fulfil it where nick ECON or doesn't want to pass onto them. So rival company right is going to get benefit from in terms of money the GONNA client from it, but nick does anyway, and the reason he doesn't is because it's too bad. It's half positive interaction with your enemies. Described his own negative negative because one s impacts you again, not relationship with the competitive newmarket but also it's it demonstrates the kind of the kind of organization you. To client central plants, and you always a positive thing I one of the things I took away from that just on a personal level I am I always. Get left a military. I decided not who's overtime. And I thought that is not the way to be someone comes to the problem or a query question. Always ending on a positive I know I, don't I saw. Know anyone does Rufin. For example, don't go anywhere. That's gone X. License. All they saw. Bats. I know someone who might know someone I'll some else who might know it? All is negative Nikon alka positive. But Yeah I'm GonNa give this referral or something trying in the right direction because it just beneficial right and then you are a positive thing. Whether, it's an organization. Or an individual is good for yourself. It's really fun tropic thing to way to behave Also, it benefits other people whether it's a military person one organization whether it's not. It. Breeds. positivie. Positively attracts positively yeah and we're trying to you know I'm desperately to turn on I. Think a lot of people in my immediate community to get away from the old adage of. People in the Ministry of my bide and dangerous tonight I. Think. I. There's people. Are I try to so associate myself the quietly trying to undermine that that's an idea and of course, there are people. Very, loudly so of Demonstrating that they actually fit into demographic. And something that. It's not helpful being negative and we're all negative sometimes and we kind running human but. We call find a way of of of. Just. Trying to inject positively rather than negatively and I think that you know particularly helping other. Organizations whether they're competitor Naw I think that's a asser. Next. In Waco Upright. We'll look at the caswell might look how many military Kassir start now but what you won't see sites it. What you will, what you see is not A. South. Explained expect what you see is. I will share Ground Zero. Of I'll share declassified stuff. I don't refuse to engage them and they don't refused engage me because an inver comments wicca patches cuvee not rule do different things but in terms of the business or that the endeavor doing all podcasts on our our. Audience or potentially it's all the same kind of audience. When you start out his military extent, the military, it's going to be a military audience. So instead of looking like, Oh, I'm not going to help them I'm not GonNa like this or shadow or tweet us because let's go impact my audience not enough it because ruling super all in the same about together on an Umberto. Line of that when I was when I was I spoke to business again Robert Blake random business loons and insights. I was wanted WHO's traffic upon? On June I was looking for something specific for a business oddly enough friend with the business. And Only streets there's like there's A. Julius Judas Opposite News and. Talk and he said Yeah, there's another Julissa Open up the road nightmare. And he said. He said it's not a nightmare. He said because the mall jewelers opened up this road. Than this role, become the place to go for Julie's so full increases for everyone. Yeah. They are going to take some sales is out of Judas, but we will this be more football on your full on benefits volt power of people bring all jewelers is saying and I thought fucking out what are we look at? What am I looking at really insightful on is one of the reasons why You get estate agents on the same bloody street in it's in the city he go to your town he got like y'all get the fast food places all in the one st he estate agents fall the one st he get the solicitous all knowing streaked on your white because that's the street to go for the slim explicit. Fi. Like the the Galapagos Islands because. Is a protected wars. So nobody can go fishing you conquer hunting there, and so what happens you get An An. An amount of of fish and animals. The Live and breathe there. So that kind of like the collapse. Is kind of like a small Plyer isn't it? And I tried to treat winchester. We're on live as the Galapagos Islands for Thomas. Parts shoes. So, if it's doing well in Winchester? People that leave and then come back again they're taking that message with them and say, oh. Yeah Thomas. Party shoes. It's is associated with Winston we love our is the company that comes from. Winchester. Because obviously most US come from Northampton. And it's our brand and you are win Tony, in which is the posh wet for people come from Winchester. Tony with shown a wind Tony. Ian. Why. Isn't win chosen? Nice. Probably some other NI- on Anti. Somebody who's really clever cannot start question but I'm. Not many people know this but the ancient capital of England and I always conversation but but no one off the colchester culture of the I was you know coaches, the first recorded town, he the first capital though because, King Alfred. The Great was the first I think he kind of united the English tribes. And he's I. Think he's Great. Grandson was the first actual King of England Anyway as lots of cool stuff. When you start your day past, you just walked down the street and on a plaque, there'll be William. The COMP crowded palace here. And to think that I'm walking in the same footsteps as. William the conqueror is like at blows. My mind. Because is quite a cool place. Nobody knows if I stay. I'll come from Winston go look at me strangely guy with that. Our in between basingstoke consumption go yeah and they don't come. Happen. Okay I know something's yeah. Standing in three I struggled with. Who Stung in three I was I was in Iran conversation with. Johnny, Mercer yesterday and Love Is. A running comes as you don't even if we said Israel's abundant and he said he thought Plymouth Plymouth. Lindan. And he said he said, do you said you even know the moment as to go from Plymouth London? Yeah. We have three one of them shore-based. Probably and then I looked this morning like Nah, it's three I sprayed them Flight that's an entry entry Guys the M twenty five down to Sampson Yeah and then. If all goes up the otherwise candidate fight for today and the three. That's one way to get to the south in the West country or them and five and four. You, want to know him talking about that. But yeah, this is switching an off. We're talking about fucking winchester and they moton as what we did. The cops. Call the conversation off a cliff. WHO's involved my Alpha just you just you and yet just made andy pushing that an and Like I said it is a labor of love at the moment and You know on these. East Palo of Tom and finance into into more KALFA And like I said. We want it to be success. Really really did we want more people's overstay to find out about it and and go to the website, which is Mark Kaffa or Mike Mike Hyphen off dot com I think. and you know to jump on the courses. An unpredictable webinars guy just did I out of it crushes today could only people turned up to the web is today happens? Oh, my is so hit Miss I did a Patriot zoom calls on sometimes about every time a few people but then immunity those kind of things especially now you're going to get cash people to say, yeah, I'm going on face. The going to get a fraction of actually turn up. It's just one of the reason. I. Swallow as he's kind of like it's a learning curve make night. On People's not drama either especially when you start off 'cause you eat it's much easier. It's. Much more effective personal connection with those people is again, Komo Pitcher I. do next lunches die. If three or four people turn up man I'm having that conversation of three or four people if I get all twenty, twenty, eight, twenty, nine, pitch Allston up is still really beneficial. Not Insurance like. Really interpersonal connections. With? Specific individuals I don't get not opportunities well, both the good lows people not. Each one of their positive. So when is not all other people is still yeah. I mean I mean actually there's one guy I really wanted to push on that course because. If I mentioned but Blackwood, Dan Richards, he's just amazing blake the he was any artillery I think was in King's troop manage to rip off his arm on the utmost does not like. Oh my God Arthur emerge. Now came of his barking and lost his arm on however he's. Really come a long way in in the in the is the The He's been injured and He's now into law body confidence stuff happening other people with their with with issues. They've got he's now doing. Obama model in And His main message is all in about kind of almost being satisfied with what you've got and being comfortable in your skin. and when he was on the on the On the National Norad did and he was that has one and because he was used to that kind of world, he basically for one that word. How my hand through the whole of that. Experience. For me because I've never I've never done it before. Like production. Yeah. Film production. Yeah. That all that kind of stuff when he was kind of use to Albert and It was it was great. So with Donald always trying to help dime because you know he's got such a long time for him and he was on the yesterday and heat it kind of sack Taufnik ten. And the trainer no she she's all over Kaneta from from Jedi for she's all over it. So yesterday Lincoln specific semi. Markov. and. It was. It was all about linked. COSC- for employees and She was she really saw. tend his is perception of link ten because it is changing is pretty much more like a facebook for business owners. Really. and because he'd come off where. He is constructed. Didn't understand the the platform tool and it was just tweaking what he's doing to fit in with boys doing. 'cause you might start genuine rain, but you'll soon on that Janu stood stop bumping into people that along the same lines as you and and. so He's wasn't cheap enough nor his life anymore there's actually no point in on link ten being. Mates all of all connecting with people that are still in the military 'cause that's not where life is anymore. He. needs to be sought connecting with chocolate directors. Agencies, anybody that books a model for show that's the KINDA person. The he should be connecting with Ashley. It still seeks me to connect with people the auto seven. And leaving purely for my alpha. So what I mentioned have been really effectively since two thousand nine without leaving thirteen, thousand, and fourteen but. I wasn't really aside I wasn't a soldier whilst I was rehabbing always was. Just a broken blake for awhile. I'm getting lots of surgery in. Living The dream Don helicopter and that was I mean The humor there. Nice. Another conversation but. Yeah. So it's all about swapping walls and he sought his out very very effectively in what he's doing is is you know hats off to him he's an amazing player can and one that. Are wishing the best because he's a, he's a good guy really. Might. Have you call. What was the? What was the civilian community who live airy line of being there I've been there once I remember taking a May minds to hail down. If you met to. You might misuse hail some point. Live in a bloody. What which call it. Now rallies shopping. Got Me Mega applaud I dropped him off air wants are common. Was this civilian community like around colts into just in Iraq? Well, actually heavy coalition literally the MINOA. and. If you look at a map, it's actually not that far from the M twenty five. You could probably won't there. Of course a failed and be there in about ten fifteen minutes if could today that So we went from let it never had worked for from dorking. there's a race accommodates track what's up there but as a few pubs up there where people used to talk about. That was a steakhouse that was not far. So. We didn't know Scott here. Yes. Yes it is. Is Copy ask Say. Well, we didn't necessarily have a huge amount to do with the local population and there was A. Kind of remember the pub does the road. But we did you know that everybody gets the pub But helicopter me, I was four and half years of for Naunton. and say, Time Headquar. Got There on the eighth of December two, thousand nine and I was blown up on music. Tiber. Walking less than team on soft is injured or bear embassy Bosnian wasn't nothing Alexa. Call picture of Misao, stood up him upset legs with massive small face. Knowing the actually there was. A was going to get back home affairs. Metaphorically end in almost physically. but had he was a cycle of Ozzy Rehab physiotherapy, smashing yourself in the gym. Learning to walk again and then some time off to go on holiday. Have Surgery. Have children or you'd be waiting an extra time because it was so busy. You'd be waiting for space to go back in again because they needed to get other books. Aluminium on other men and women into the place to get treated. I mean it was it was it was an awesome place to pay the the the humor was. I mean we were. We were we we thought we were very funny and we were. Actually remember a bunch of baby Paris committed with them. With. A young Sultan left Lieutenant. And they were so of it was it was so funny to watch because. Young AGGRIPA Paris on their own with normally been dominated spacing and be the life and soul of whichever take place they took up. Well, they were completely out of water in headquarters and we were not there and we were just and they were like. It was almost like coming rabbits and headlights. And does not have some of my mates and. Who've knock-about with no legs and arms missing in paces. and. These guys won't pass and they were looking bit sheepish win. Look fucking shine with their legs but loud enough that. They could hear a May. He was a captain in the Roy. Just. US like howling. That was set and these guys just face. It just went red luck with embarrassment all of them, and then that you know that the petition come onto a won't pass with the SMART This is really interesting that I was talking to. On the re Org podcasts last week. Yeah last week on. One of the things that spoke about now is into the six Meka mcnutt I hike fall tour. Stu Halo mentioned just now I'm now I been around I I'd much expedience being around. Militia people who had hot catastrophic injuries like south likes to. I'm when I came back not tool. We we were than mega mega close and. I found it. I wanted to avoid go see him WANNA come back because I didn't know how treat him on that point. I didn't know how to deal with it. You know. said on on the real podcast you deal with it. In the way you deal lemming when union ministry when we walked out, there was awkwardness you know I while I felt now or renders a few that. I didn't I did not know once they are treating him Awad. Timing on I realized. Thank you. Still Q. is still site just contract like one of the blocks and we. Again Huma you. Go. This note there's no holes bought and on. So for those baby Paris might they again they have no experience really being around dot that situation on finding. Being normal being around people cost of injury and how Omelette again the reality is just just noble slack off off skew hail gets even now. I mean, there was also engineers Paras Marines That was obviously because they're an alarm life. Oh so that was that was one not ram say an united there'd be a few of. The different cut budgets but predominantly was. Anyway you come you become like a bastard son of all of those people. Say Start Talking about wet. Some bruce not so I'll be with a marine. And his held you WanNa well, not qualified for wet but cannot replace. And and then We were just became our even our language changed as a result of being. In this different coach, because it was a coach purely based on heavily corn, not on on the the ministry. And it was just a very funny environment being an sometimes. It was kroger. Harris, crew in i. mean some of the stuff we go out to just. Come on Philippines can be one story you. The story, a members read friends just as just you and I talk no one else nine thousand listening Let me think. He can say anything on your just letting change the names. Of The united, some member I mean, this is great time with people like. And this is one of those things where you're not sure it happened on. No, he turns into a GE rumor. Asked the club and myths like actually were true. Say I came back when I'M GONNA. See complete those give to be nine names on pretended more map. But certainly there are some of the guys they got an or the far extinguishes. And they basically the had strutton to their wheelchairs, but they had them on their wheelchairs now, foreign themselves a they'd they were saying, which often use the MS rockets. I couldn't believe and I believe. You know I. Mean I. Mean that was another case where You know we will getting likes getting some of the newest news next going and. if you happen to be there on an intake where you were given these legs and then one of the guys wasn't using a tool and some amputate. What about this? But he just it it had to is is is sockets and they were just sat by his bed. So again, the story went. the is wheelchair taken and one was up flacco one where was up in in the. in the folks sealants been up into the full saving and the body is wheelchair is at the bottom of the poll to encourage them to you say you might think that's really cruel but the actually. It was from a position of encouragement to use what he'd been given because these things like. He'd been given. Hundred grants worth of of of leg and he wasn't using him. And it was a it was the the Headley core version of encouragement. Yeah, it sounds sounds sounds good and that may or may not happened. We still going open we'll the Senate. If you want to my well I've done it before like I'm on the game again, a swimming in a pool but in temperature I've got a short. Yeah the following US I mean, when you know went tease you to judge people now think. Of something in the summer when cookouts when I see people getting in wits song, it's the summer. The only reason a wet suit in the summer is because you want the benefits of the buoyancy. So you can smash it up in the water you not getting in there because you code you paying there because you wanna big time at and you to be it's okay in Marvel of the poignancy. Yeah you get huge my point say. So I've been I. mean you know it makes me often The sausage beyond in I want something in totals. Out again with sweatshops in ninety nine Denver Wessie, I will remind I've got some shorts in the yeah. ICON explain like the benefits of what I get from being in the cold water but I know for a fact whether it's three things. I not code or cough since of start during which is every year. Memento health has improved immeasurably. And and this kind of men and women but my life mallaby is something that really annoys my wife I'm which I'm which pleases me no end so. For me you beato yeah as in sex drive. Walk. like a seventeen year old again you know. Anyway old you know boys, Bowman. Brilliant record. site. A seven year old is popping out kids. Oh you'll be poverty. I. Already. Got One. How many got one one boulanger don't plan on. But I think I need to. Even you bowl lick on my gosh me to be likely. G.. Milwaukee but I to A. Plan. I Say I'M GONNA I'M GONNA get more spunk, carly, frozen, and anyone at us one hundred years time. Somewhat great grandchildren can meet more kids and I thought that was haunting amusing but Milwaukee's win. By. Unanimous Let's do we are because I listen it does not appeal to me. It is not. Doesn't mean it doesn't appeal to me but I liked of accomplishment. I do okay. I I WANNA. Do it regularly I was doing regularly as in daily I this thing. Get I. When I was really take note of. My mental state because I I was. On the back end of coming out of a really difficult time I. One of the things I I started doing I picked up. So I read it somewhere Jacquard through, but I won't admit selfie uncomfortable every day doing disliked and that would be, for example, I hate the plank, right the plank hard exercise really painful just always me painful. Regardless of how much do it? You know I'm getting the morning I go. Right I. Am I am going to do I set myself a possible not possible super difficult. So under do ten minutes, the plank I. Had, doesn't matter how long it takes me how many breaks and I'm doing ten fucking minutes another example the I'm gonNA disoriented press might time. I. Couldn't do fifty pressing go right. But I'll do three hundred and I'm GonNa do it is if you're going to do it and achieve at again, she even started smoking up before. So. Swimming. I'm bucking soon because funny enough crop swim I've always hated it. Last year I felt like well, if I hate on crop, the weight improve I is let's get better start doing. It couldn't do like I couldn't do five lengths on my I couldn't even to I've never breathed at the first time. I've either fifty, the other fifty, one, session, three, twenty, six, nine, hundred. Of clustering I did I. Didn't. If I wasn't I did forty six in thirty minutes fucking getting out Jeff's mouth. chuffed on on decent technique. These antennae I think they're putting lessons by think but so want some Mr why not? Yeah. Man and you know with the code will eat and out to be an F. availing say on a complete minority. the code washing is pretty much a female dominated Or Pastime But I say so many benefits and people say to other there's no way I'm going to do that but. It, you can't knock into detriot hours just to anybody to give guy because you don't have to be in a very long some people campaign and though they do, which might be two minutes and get back again. Some, people stay for ten minutes Moi is to do they. All smile, which is unknown how long it's GonNa take me and I'm gonNA climatize up to do in. Denial. With new. setina points. Show she get from the wet say. Which is gonNa take me got. Legs. So now shit. Yeah. You can't. You can't kick and no say because. I ended up so your body should be fighting the water mine mine saw drags like that. So now GANCI divorce by. So it takes me long today is a figured out fins or something Yeah Betsy. You can't use anything. Save can't use it for competition is night point me using it I say. what's the ice mylan are small swimming oversee immoral and below five degrees say the code is gone. So trusted this year Just. Didn't manage it because it wasn't cold enough and I think the code is a got to was five point t will four. Are Cope with his I mean. You get. To drop where Referees are code and then you blood which is poured inside Utah say has then got to go. Circling back out again, and it's dragon the code back into your body start shivering and if something that you got to be aware of and going to be A. Manage. So you wouldn't benefit state to drive twenty minutes. to maybe an hour and we've got added bonus where I swim There's a sauna which probably won't be abused during cove it. I it's about managing how long in the waterfall and the today when I get out because actually the easy part is being in the water will most is what you do when you get out the Watson how you manage yourself and you get dry and warm again got you'd have to you'd have to brief me up. There we go. Yeah I'm but we yeah 'cause I'm just looking at times we've been young for hours one. Hour and thirty. So is there anything that you want to mention that we haven't mentioned the any any organizations people? Why don't you need to plug now I think I've pretty much covered everything really. Give the give give the Mike Alpha website MP's. So mock half is Mike Hyphen Alpha Dot COM an tortured choose, which is the which is Thomas partial she's and then my website which is in Hamad dot. com. And pleasure. Yeah, it'd be. Remain until areas well, I. Really Joy. Again this the next week. Say. Thank you for listening. Please, if you're using apple podcasts, please leave me review on Apple podcast I choose what I listen here. or in fact, if you're if if you listen to us on your, you listen to on allows reviews to him whenever it might not be podcast might be someone else like pod Beano leaving review. Awed really appreciate it. Also, if you'd like to support the podcast and otherwise you see, could become part of a unique niche group of people arguably the keenest Hey, our podcast funds on the planet on also leading minds, semi funds they are a might patriots support as they they get access to all the podcasts. Early, they access to some Freebie giveaways occasionally hopping when I get gifts from the guests, gifts for the guests sounds like a dodgy radio program from Buckingham Dyke gifts from the guests like Around about. The also get. One of these do is they get to do a regular zoom call with me. So that among soon called just for the patient support was no one else I get feedback from them on previous podcasts sometimes I get gas recommendations from them. We discuss different things quite often especially with other poor costs. I do don't just hate shower I will ask their advice and soon things in directions I think I wanna take stuff I, get the feedback on it because. They are funds just like you listened to the podcast on their back. Just let yours is invaluable. If you want to support a podcast in additional way, you can do that like I said a patriot. Dot Com Ford Slash Hedge K. podcasts. Sir Thank you again sponsors rugby heroes they all ran to go to get their events. Bach on the calendar when they can do pandemic allowing a need to keep up today with them on social media at rugby for heroes. Rugby number four heroes. I Mike and Everybody that for all support community community and everybody else and also. My sponsors tonight where the odd bought group protected people property. Aiming to rid the world of unexploded ordinance. Do not through mine clearance example through technically innovations. Thank you that Davidson, John clan all of the employees and staff the thought group. You'll support a very, very welcome find out. About Group on social media such as the odd rock group. Funny enough all go to. Avocado don't group of your website Auk don't group as simple as I. Love It. I said. Thank you listen. Yeah actually on until next time I.

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437. Farewell 2020 With Catherine Heloise, Sneezy and Maya

Smart Podcast, Trashy Books: Reviews, Interviews, and Discussion About All the Romance Novels You Love to Read

1:12:16 hr | 3 weeks ago

437. Farewell 2020 With Catherine Heloise, Sneezy and Maya

"Hello there. Thank you for inviting me into your eardrums. I'm Sarah Windle. This is smart podcast trashy books episode number 437. We are saying goodbye to 20 20. Seriously. Goodbye off. The smart business team is gathering across many time zones. And then this episode Catherine Heloise is joining us from Melbourne, Australia. Sneezy is in Taiwan and Maya is in California. So we are going to talk about books and movies and manga that we loved our favorite tropes. We talked a little bit about social anxiety and rwa and how to look back on what we've learned this year. Now if you are listening to this on the 25th of December 3rd, Happy Chinese food no movie day stay safe and warm mayor take out the excellent. And if you are celebrating Christmas today Merry Christmas to you and yours. I have a compliment which is so much fun for Kristen L. When your friends think about New Year's resolutions and wishes and goals having you in their lives is always an absolute unspoken but essential part of their happiness. Thank you for being you if you would like a complement of your very own have a look at smart bitches Patriot at Patriot home monthly pledges start at $1. Every pledge keeps the show going and the Patriot Community is made of wonderful. Excellent people. Happy holidays to all of you and thank you for your support. This podcast episode is brought to you by headspace headspace is your daily dose of mindfulness in the form of guided meditations in an easy-to-use app headspace is one of the only foundation apps advancing the field of mindfulness and meditation through clinically validated research. So whatever the situation headspace really can help you feel better. If you are feeling overwhelmed headspace has a three-minute Buddhist Meditation just for you. 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This is the best deal offered right now. So head-to-head space.com today. Since we're talking about books and movies and manga and t-shirts and lots of things in this episode. I'm sure you're wondering hm. Where can I find links to all of the books and the things that are being talked about in this episode and insurance, you know, that smart business trashy books are found slash podcast. I will have links to everything we talked about never fear. This episode is also brought to you by one. Hope wine one. Hope is an awful Valley Winery built on Hope and rooted in purpose every bottle of our award-winning wine supports a meaningful cause one hopes commitment to high-quality wine is as important as their commitment to the cause they support through the sale of every bottle one. Hope has donated over five million dollars too causes around the world. 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Now I have permission to use this music but you know YouTube doesn't know that but for the holidays, I think I have to bring back the way he fiddles. So if you are looking for some funky fine awesome holiday music, this is my favorite set a desde fiddles by deviations project and I will link to it the show notes never fear. This episode is also brought to you by ritual a daily multi-vitamin now available in essential for kids ritual knows how difficult it can be to get your kids the nutrients they need to tell me about it. And that's why they made essential for kids help fill gaps in the diets of ages four through twelve without making a single compromised equality or taste not only do they have a natural Citrus Berry flavor, but they're convenient. I design every day features a three-in-one design that combines a daily multi vegan omega-3 DHA and a good source of fiber per serving and they deliver like it shows up on the porch. I love this part the minute. I finish a bottle the name is waiting for me and I love the literal transparency. My capsules are see through which is really cool. And I like knowing the source of every nutrient that's inside the vitamins we take When it comes to what goes into our kids bodies, they've got being picky down to a science mind certainly do that's why ritual is offering my listeners 10% off your first three months visit ritual ceremony to start ritual or add essential for kids today. That's ritual, Sarah. Are you ready for a podcast episode I could do podcast episode. Let's do it right now on with the show off. Welcome guys. I'm so glad we get to do this. So it's dead early for you. It wasn't like 8 in the morning. Yes. It is. I'm very impressed with myself that I'm not only here but also on time Catherine will know that I struggle with this being here or being on time or both very impressed with myself. Like I was half of last night was me lying in bed going. Okay, but what about miss it? Like I know I set three alarms and whatever same through all of them. Yeah, I did. So here I am. So do you have the thing where if you have something on your calendar? You're like I can't do anything else until then. Oh, no. I've done quite a lot of things this morning already. I had to Robert and Catherine. Why don't you three hours in which to do all things off. Did you do I put a curry in the slow cooker? I organized my Christmas baking shopping list and did the shopping and I've just uploaded a video to my book while to our website, You also have to sleep. We've been over this. You also have to rest. I thought you didn't December, like December for you. Is it is it like people in the northern hemisphere who have a bazillion hours of sunlight and you're just super awake because you're so far south or is dead. Oh my God, it's Christmas. And I have buckets of daylight with which to get things done a little bit of a like a very over the topic Christmas most years. I'm singing in choirs every day. Obviously not this year, but I've I've found ways to be singing every day anyway, and I always do a lot of baking for work. And since I've finally got back in the office after nine months part-time because we've we've been very fortunate here. We had our very long lock down and now cases are very very low. That's not the case here. We're terrible at this. We're really bad at covid-19 Maya. We're yeah down here we've had I think capacity for the icy use and LA County like we just hit capacity and like we all we all our beds and so it's a mess and it's going to be a mess for the next probably six weeks. Yeah we suck at this. So I'm really very envious of your ability to go and do things with other people in the same space that you that aren't related to you. We did have six weeks when we had a curfew when we couldn't leave the house for more than an hour a day for exercise and shopping or was that the 5-kilometer locked down the radius? Yes God it was yeah. That was the hell book and the less, you know, it's loaded in coming out. There are still some restrictions. But yeah, I mean I have faith in the office since March 17th, and I got to go back to the first time for half a day of the week before last and all the plants are dead. Right? No, I I belong to one of my scientists. I work in a medical research, but I'm not a scientist so I can work from home but my scientists have all been coming in and shifts to keep. Their experiments going right? How're things with you rate? I'm unemployed. So I'm just like chilling hanging-out a nap. But yeah, I don't really it's really great. I love it. I'm really loving this like isolation thing which freaks everyone out when I say it but you to like never had not leave my house and I live alone. Like I'm great. This has been a really great nine months for me like for my mental health, like my anxiety is like really great cuz it's like no I don't have to talk to people so I'm good social anxiety and so like yeah, I'm like loving it. I I don't like I don't know what I'm going to do next. I think I'm going to start a start a solo practice as an attorney. So like yeah, I'm but I'm waiting until I pass the bar in California. And so that's another month, but I have to just like sit around which is fine. I'm not complaining. Everything's great. Yeah, you have a social anxiety like mine where you replay conversations after you had them for like fifteen years when is decades and decades like they could tell you about things I said when I was thirteen and I'm currently at this moment forty-five years old. Yeah. No, I I have a really great memory which is useful for some jobs, but not they're living like now for living like I used to have a job where I would have to interview people for six hours at a time and couldn't write anything down like it would freak people out in the interview process. But so but I could recall everything once I like got in my car and just sort of like writing everything down. That was great. It was perfect but like for you know birth Conversation I had with my parents when I was ten, like maybe maybe we can move perhaps it now. I can't no not at all. No, no, no. All right. So first up first question first question book or piece of media. Got you through 2020. Who wants to go first? I want to go first so I can say the one everyone else probably wants to say evil. I love it. Yeah, I've planned this song speaking of anxiety. I really love the jerk who didn't really spoke to me on so many levels officially the endless endless lists that were never gets through and and she and just the idea that someone can be enough which is something I have a little trouble grasping for myself about other people so long. Yeah, that's a good think. Yeah. I look at how many year-end lists that book has been on it makes me so happy just such a it's so kind to investors and it's so and it's for food and you know how I feel about that. And yeah, I have a book to recommend to you about sort of reframing the idea of being enough dead. Mhm. It's called laziness does not exist. It is non-fiction It Is by a professor and researcher named Devin Price. They are based in Chicago wage and it's coming out in January. So I'm reading an arc now cuz I'm doing an interview with them end of the month. This book is blowing my mind and my family's tired of hearing about it. I like it so much because it talks about how we are indoctrinated with this idea. That laziness is is the worst thing and what we actually do need is time off and and the idea of being enough for self. It's it's like straight up your wheel house or on your street or however, you say that the first time you talked about business lock Sarah Google was listening and Amazon recommended you mean you're I'm not lazy stupid or crazy by Kate Kelly and Peggy Roman do to me on Kindle won't have have have not read this yet birth. It seems like it's on the same bandwagon and just from the blurb. It sounds like is more geared towards ADHD as well, and it's just like thank you for like being a complete creep Google. This is just a one-time well worth the point is in your court for you. But also, thank you. My daughters digging a hole in the carpet right now. Are you doing Maya what got you through 2020 so I am going to say them because I read it so many times like over and over again and like I know sir I was like I'm a supervisor was going to love it should be so excited about I loved murderbot me and murder butter the same and so yeah, it's just this story right of like like murder bought like trying to figure out how to love themselves. Right? Cuz at the beginning they just tested everything about themselves, right? Yeah. There is a can't control themselves all of those things and like kind of figure out How to appreciate the I don't know not person the murderer brought that they are and so I just really loved that story and the way that wage murderbot was both negotiating like its own idea of itself, like within a context of like this world that had so many things that they didn't quite understand. Yes. So it's just like loved it and obviously like murder about just wants to sit in a corner and watch some T and like me to murder bought like that. That's I mean right covid-19. We're all just going to go through home, watch some Netflix and everything to be perfect. It's exactly what I want. You saw I posted in the in the slack you saw the shirt I got for Hanukkah, right? Yeah a little wear tomorrow in the dryer right now, but I didn't happen. Yeah, I was I was sure I love that Series so much because it also confirms that being a person. Is hard like being a person is hard and dealing with other people as hard and emotions are hard and all of this stuff that you do as a basic person. That's all really hard. Even if you have a super-powered break and can run up the wall and you have guns built into your arms. It's all hard and I think what we're one of the things that worked for me with murder bought and that series is that like I had to keep reminding myself them or is this is hard. This is really hard. Like, I think it was an Helen Petersen who's a journalist that I really really like she has a a sub stack newsletter that actually paid for cuz I love her work so much and she said we're basically living through a global Extinction event and that's not normal and we even watch it as it's happening. We watched the bar graphs go up and down and you can watch your your ICU beds get full up. Like that's all terrifying and it's hard like this is really hard. So it's it was reassuring for me to enter a world where it's like, yes, just basic personhood is hard to like, it's okay that this is George. Difficult. Yeah, and that there are people who are going to look after you that I think that was the other piece was it was a a really interesting found family story when a motorboat was like trying to convince themselves that They wanted to be part of the world and that like they could be loved right like first was this this act of figuring out how to love themselves and then like accepting wealth and and then and then took another people love right loving people back the whole thing that they're like still trying to figure out and I just really loved loved watching all of that. I love the the comment to my review page of network effect from a hapax that it was basically an agender a sexual romantic suspense novel in the media read that I was like, oh course it was dumb. Oh, how did I miss that life? Yeah. It's like it's the kind of thing where it's a kind of book that I used to trick people injured reading a romance. Right? Like this is not Murder By like let's just he's it wants to kill people all the time. Like let's just late read that and then like, oh, oh wait, they're falling in love. Did I did I did I forget to mention the love story. That is so great. Did I did I forget off? And then can I have some corny Milan? This is an excellent strategy. I approve. Yeah, I've done very nice. So my name is a touch of stone in snow because it is it was I talked about it so much on like virtually every list home and and it's because it's just gotten me through the year so much that and webtoon webtoons is like towards the end of these are like these past few months. But okay, so it's written by Matthew Brooks and under the name of Mel Levine and and the biggest thing about that book. That's so comforting to me is a giant snow cat back to snow capped that will cuddle you that will rip your enemy's apart and and it can have conversations with you just maybe not with words and it will troll you and you can't roll it back and you can suck. Go with it and it is possessive. It will let your horse and you're ready money know that you are they're human and it will it would just be parole over you and the idea of applicants. I would love me that much, and we'll go on murder squares with me and will cuddle me at night. That's everything. That's all I want and I have been so upset at all the court decision makers and pull the power this entire year that I just go. I pretty much want to snow cap to go on an adventure with and if they end up dead. Hey, it's a giant super to know what you want from me. Okay, I do believe in restorative justice. I will say that but the idea of having a monster that is also a flood control that will go on a murder spree with me that is causing the people. I love danger. It's very appealing. Oh sites as far as his. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, if she wants to do stuff like you can't everyone knows right? You can't control a cat cats and charge you're just there to make sure to use your thumbs to make sure they get fed. That's it a shame that you gotta clean the poop little bit of Litter Genie going on there and watch them to the shine. Do we not get to hear your book off all media Sara or is that a different podcast? Oh gosh. Well, I was just Adam was Adam was asking me when we were eating dinner. He's like, do you have to answer the same question? I'm like, what kind of yeah when I was talking with Elise and tear off. And Ellen this week the two things that got me through were my like my said murderbot. And also the cadfael mystery series which is set in medieval Wales where there's like, you know, actual Anarchy and no one knows who the king is and people are dying. Then there's this like elderly Monch with an herb garden who solves murder and I realized during that podcast that there probably isn't murderbot cadfael crossover fanfic, but that there should be and I might have stumbled upon an Unwritten unexplored fanfic menu, and I'm kind of into it now like I've been thinking about it a lot. Like are you going to place? You know, that'd be that'd be pretty great. Right? So what actually got me through was stories that confirmed that being a person is hard like murder bought stories that reassured me that regardless of the time. People have lived through really shity things and come out. Okay, and that I will live through really City things and it'll be okay. I just thought those were my two he's also doing something meaningful, you know, there's all this chaos around him. But in his small world, he's making sure he's doing things with messenger people and around him doesn't prevent that, you know, you can still do something. I don't know. Yes. There's a there's a quote from Cory Booker who was my senator in New Jersey and is still a senator in New Jersey just not my Senator anymore and he said a couple of times don't let your inability to do everything get in the way of your determination to do something and he may be quoting someone else but I've heard him say it so that's who I attribute it to and that's exactly it like he's, you know cadfael even in Murder but they're doing small things that matter in the immediate thought that makes things better and different and improves them in small increments. I'm also rereading the nalini Singh psy-changeling Series right now. They say work for you sneezing song. Cuz the bad guys like they they get bad shit when the when stuff happens to the bad guys. It's super like violent and vicious and there's changelings. Do not fuckaround. You might seem like it's kind of cathartic. I feel good just here not like I don't do horror and Gore you guys know that but at the same time it's like I want a dead. Well, the thing is wrong with the site changing series if it gets too violent, I can just sort of flip through like, okay cuz the chapters in the scenes are very short. So if it's like, oh, this is a bit too much just flip ahead. Do you even know I'm trying to record something dog? Well Honey Badger Don't Care the dog doesn't care either. He's going to bargain. Should he can't see? Oh my gosh. All right, Katherine. Do you bring your question? Okay, so mine's a fairly a light question. I guess when when you're when you're choosing a book is this one trip that you will always kind of go and click them. Make or you know for three person and do you have a favorite book within that true? That's my oh that's a good one. Oh, that's a good one. You said it was a light and I thought it meant easy you lied. Oh, yes come up with okay. So I have a particular truck that I do love that. I love romances when the characters are forced to be there authentic real selves due to whatever circumstances have changed could be there snowed in there's forced proximity. They're fake dating. They're fake not dating like there's all of these circumstances where characters are forced to be who they are wage what really like really grabs me is when there's that situation, but they're communicating through some kind of secret method either notes or texts. There's some song Sub conversation happening that allows them to tell each other the truth beneath what's happening in the story? So secret notes epistolary romances things where they're passing notes back and forth with their writing notes on Post-its and leaving them for each other a really good example is the flatshare by Bethel Erie where they're they're leaving notes for each other and it's like hey, I'm a butt ton of apricot bars and you can have simple what that actually is as I'm taking care of you are you? Okay? And then that begins this this person I don't ever see that. I've never met but lives in my space. So there's no way to the C but there's not intimacy. I love the just that's probably it. I love the juxtaposition of intimacy in a situation that's not intimate where you have to reveal who you really are. That's my favorite sort of flavor and that can come in for its proximity or fake relationships or all these different scenarios, but that's when it's when it's notes or or you know secret communication log. For a very secret text thread like that. That's that's that's the thing that I love the most that sounds delicious good. Another good one is yours to keep by Shannon Stacey. They have a fake relationship and the only place they can leave notes for each other is in the bathroom. So they leave Post-it notes in the bathroom about each other so they can get to know each other in a space that is inherently just there's well, they're pretending to have a relationship for whatever reason people pretend to have relationships. There's lots of different reasons in Romance. My when you practice law, are you going to specialize in those wills and romance that many people they get married and like force each other to pretend to have relationships to close the button like are you going to specialize in that variation of contract in a state law cuz there's not like a party by Ghana off all about that. Like I said, it would be my own like just watching these love stories happen. Yeah. Yeah great Grandad, but you guys are getting off. Barry's yeah, but eighty thousand acres of land is yours in LA, right? You boosters blah blah blah. So you gotta marry that lady for them now like yes clocks ticking pound get on that. Let's go get that that's happened before it's like you have to marry me. Sorry look all that Lance like I mean, it's in a well I didn't I didn't did I write the will and that means it's illegal. We don't have to talk about that but like totally Superfluous detail. It is immaterial to this relevant relevant situation. Yes. Now we're getting naked go. I read Rafe by Rebecca Weatherspoon for a to be a guest on another cast recently. And one of the things I really liked about it is that they were in one of those conscripted relationships like you have to get married for this much days to inherit this much when they were like birth You're kind of hot. You know while we're married you want to go to boat town. I really appreciated the the honesty of wishing to go to Bone, because you know, what the hell not. Yes get through it. There's none of pages left in the book and smashing. Gogogogogo who has an answer for candidates question with me and Catherine Catherine. Do you want to go first my question? Yeah. Well, all right. No, it's Maya Maya and and and you elbow Catherine I would love it. If you answer to yet still think the answer to my question marriage of convenience. I love I know it's like kind of relates to what you were just talking about Sarah but I think the sort of marriage of convenience where there's like an explicit negotiation of of like who people like what they want in a relationship month. I think when we were talking about other tribes that I totally enjoy like with like the side changeling Series where there's a lot of faded mates stuff that happens and so that like negotiation of like Faith negotiation of what people actually want in a relationship. It's like just boom you're in love congratulations kind of thing. And then there's like other stuff happening that needs to be figured out but marriage convenience. There's a lot more people like discovering each other and having conversations with of things they want and the ways they've like often been like failed by other people. Yeah, and so like where I am right now, I think my favorite one that I just felt Strange Love by just forgot the author's name. Y'all got it, dear. Yes. So good because you had these to these, you know one person one not a person but having these conversations both of them sort of been. Undervalued and like really like explicit ways and and it was just this very like with I forget the name of the the dude but like this whole he's like shocked everytime. She she does the things she said she was going to do which was to like stick by him and he just keeps every time he's like she's going to she's going to forget about that and she's like well quit now like, what are you even talking about in like this shock the constant like he's constantly Amazed by that is she was like really heartbreaking but it's also sort of the kind of thing. That is the kind of develop a relationship that I like to see. Yeah. Were you have no real reason to trust in the relationship because the relationship itself is built on a page weird foundation and then it remains consistent. I like that too. It's so good really. Hella cold out by that, but okay. I felt called. Okay again, feel free to cut this out of the city, but it's just hearing Maya talk about that. It just reminded me of them all. They're really shity people. I had surrounded myself with and I always internalize the idea that if I felt uncomfortable if I was hurt if I felt undervalued disrespected I could even put words to this is only now after all the internal work that I've done that I found and if I do this how I was feeling right, but any time that I felt discomfort or pain or hurt, I was thought. Oh, it's just cuz I'm the problem if I was better if I if I thought the right thoughts I wouldn't feel this way. And obviously everybody else is right. Everybody else has legitimate reasons, but me and I'm a terrible person anyway, so I don't deserve to feel upset right? So like my you recommend a notebook to me dead. I actually forgot about the talking dog until you talked about it and I was like, oh my God, how did I forget this? But yeah, like exactly what you said it kind of held up a very uncomfortable mirror the way the the cricket dude was like what you respect me you really care about me. Where's what's the catch what the fuck is happening and was just like well, she just loves you and that's great. Yeah, but isn't that one of the most Central messages of romance? Yes, like you are worthy of Love exactly as you are. You don't have to change. Yeah. Yeah, but if you like stories now are just so smart and so direct with how they talk about this and there's no facility or weird stuff going on or if they are weird stuff that goes on it's really easy to pick out and it's like no I don't have to put up with this shit. There's so many other stories. I can go to yep. Oh, yes. Oh, yes so many more. Yeah. So do you have a Trope do you log? Answer. Oh, yes. Okay. So this is more with like man Mountain slash manga slash. However, you pronounce graphic novels wage and webtoons, but it's a tie. So it's a guy is a genre or talking about like a character somehow gets transplanted into a long story and there there might be time travel involved. There might be reincarnation involved point is you get plonked in a story whether the story is wage a novel game, whatever you're in it and what the fuck do you do because suddenly all of these tropes that you thought was so hot weather. It's stuff with dark romance or or just this great adventure. That's very life-threatening is like Oh, no, I got to live through this shit, but more importantly like cuz obviously I'm romance reader, so I tend to read them. Like the Josiah and Shoujo side of things right so that the troops are really really really smart in the way that it's used to examine the role of women and stories the role of women in society page. That's like very on the nose. Like you have these characters that are like no you don't get the treat women like shit and still have your magical romance missed a Crown Prince know I can ship them out you there's consequences would be nasty Prince you have to know politics or do you have to know economy? You can't just give shirking your duties and expect things to work out for, you know, not going to put up with that shit and then there's also long does this thing where like, okay and Catherine in the in our escapes group always talking about like why don't they just throw the man over and like these two gals just run off into the sunset isn't that perfect pairing then these these webtoons are like well, how about that? And it's it's okay. I have to be very careful what I say here because spoilers but there's there's some stories were were dead. You get you still get love triangles, but I I actually like these little triangles not because it love triangles. But because you know the love interest for the main character are a man and a woman and they respect each other. I can therefore me with ADHD and anxiety and depression super fun times, but it doesn't there's the layout like that that is very delicious home. Like after the election my brain just went. Oh you want to read non-fiction Buck. You you feel like a novel I will whip tunes right now. What's it going to do and my only make sure nothing there's a there is a poem by Mary Oliver is an American poet called wild geese and there is a line that I tell myself all the time. You have only to let the soft animal if your body want what it wants dead. Sometimes your body knows what it means. And if it needs Technicolor Greek gods who are you know pining for each other fine that shit or you'll be sorry. That's right. If that's what my body wants if that's what my brain wants. Yeah right fine. I won't get in the way. I still get my story fixed. So I'm happy smart woman says your body wage. Yeah just did just get out of my way. Okay, fine. Okay. Okay. I'm not going I'm not the way Kevin. Do you have an answer for your own question? I sort of G. I mean the short answer is the more trip to the theater. I like stories off of different types in them if I see. Oh, yeah, there's a big secret and someone's cross-dressing and someone else, you know, and then there's only one bed. I am extremely happy, but I was also just looking at my list of birth. My favorite books for this year. It's pretty clear that I have one group. I really like which is it's kind of a it's an Opposites Attract not enemy still has particularly but where one character is really highly strung or contents or kind of you know, grumpy and the other one just sort of its sort of relaxed sunshiny kind of yeah, I love that trip and I no idea why that would be off like you didn't like that. You didn't like act like it's like hearts on hold like 10 Things I Hate About while the page in 10 Things I Hate About The Duke like ground country. It's based on my list to wait every single thing on that list has that kind of quote actually so that clearly what I thought sunshiny one in the Grumpy One sunshine you out on the Grumpy One all the sunshine all the relaxed one on the totally stressed out one and just yeah. Yeah, I particularly loved that when it's dead. And with competence we're even if the load the laid-back or the sunshiny one is also competent ideally both. Yes, ideally both but sometimes you get it where it's it's it edges firmly into mayonnaise pixie dream girl. Yeah, and and and you know, oh, I'm just a complete disaster and someone who takes life seriously needs to fix me. Like that's that's not my jam when they're both competent and they have to reconcile each other's competence. Even though they're coming from opposite value systems. Yes, please so hot and I think I also like may I love any type where they have to really negotiate and figure out who they are. I guess that's why yes the fake relationship and the only one bed and things like that work really well for me because there is so much discussion about okay, where are the boundaries? What are we going to do? And there's a kind of radical honesty. You have to have there or just doesn't work as it's the stuff with people in real life tend to kind off. Poke around and try and find sort of cuz no one wants to talk about that stuff directly cuz it's awkward and weird and they keep you kind of have to yes. So I love that. I agree. I feel awkward person myself. I think that sounds yeah. It's a good convert. I agree. I totally get it. All right, Mya, what's your question for us? My question is even though it feels like it was literally a billion years ago like was a literally a billion years ago. I just it was yesterday off with the whole r w a master happens. Like I was wondering if you all had something that you loved that like came out of that mess over the last year cuz there was a felt like a very radical shift that occurred sort of in our January that again like I just it's it feels so far away that I almost imagined it but it's just too long ago. Like if there's what your what was your favorite sort of like outcome out of all of those all the like really bad things that did happen there or like what hopes. Did you have to lie still haven't actually been like reached yet. Haven't been met yet. I love looking back at the whole thing that happened with our wa because it's like oh my God. What a quaint time. I remember when that whole thing broke. I was on vacation in Utah. I was at like nine thousand feet elevation. I did not have my normal amount of oxygen and I was like, fuck me I have to write write down now I could barely talk out loud. And I remember being so hurt and mad like this decision that was released about courting on that page hurt. Like why are you trying to make yourself irrelevant? Why are you trying to undo what people have worked so hard and I look back at that now I'm like what acquaint time that was. So painful when you're not often and I'm Looking Back Now, like wow, if only I knew how really fucked-up fixed and I felt like our world. Ashok right. What happened there? Yeah. I was just like I don't even know what happens. It doesn't even really matter. I don't even remember what how did it end. I don't even know I don't need like at this point. It's like whatever we're all flushed. We're all still here. But yeah, like I still think that there was there was a lot of stuff that happened. And so I just I also think that it would be very natural for us to forget about it to not be marking the time because of all the other things that are all are extremely important that have been happening instead, but I think that we need to sort of ask ourselves did we have expectations that came out of everything that happened that have been met and I have not been met because it will take affirmative work right like cuz it actually occurred and people were harmed and people continue to be harmed and so dead. We can't like set it aside. We have to sort of we still have to hold it up as a thing that like we need to to be reflecting on a lot less other stuff. But like I think this would be a moment to start to start reflecting. I'm the type of person who will not let go of those type of things off. So so I hold a grudge and I hold a grudge good and so I just want to speak out loud, right the truth of the fact that like wage. There's still some more work to do when I was just one to hear from you. All you what you also marry me right now. I mean it's interesting because while I definitely haven't forgotten it, I really have no idea how it ended its sort of Trail a very be covered off and particularly being a different times and I feel like a lot of stuff happened on Twitter. It would have I wake up every morning and go. Oh my Lord. In fact, I I thoroughly entertained My Life video when I turned up with a really dodgy thumb and she said, how did you injure yourself when I went it took Twitter injury factor. I think I get a little close but nobody admits to it. Oh my God, he's really bad for young. Yeah. I know. Yes ma'am. But yeah, I mean, I think I've certainly been very conscious of who I'm reading now dead. Which is difficult as I'm terrible at remembering names of authors, and maybe it's just I've been noticing it more but I feel like there's much more of a conversation still going on. You know, we already had the annual report of how many people of color were getting published in Romance, but I think there's a lot more conversation in between about how that's working and about About what constraints there are who are trying to publish comments at the moment. I don't but yeah, you're right. It did get married another bigger stuff, but it doesn't make it less important. It's just a very thoroughly at least Sneezy. What about you? So what I wanted out of that mess which obviously I did not get is where racism to go away to fuck up and Publishing and everywhere else. What I feel like these big moments are often was also done to these big moments. I should say is they are held up as a kind of as a kind of symbol like, oh look this ended. So obviously the bad thing went away know Let The Healing begin now, we hear that a lot. You know, somebody said something racist and now we can all heal like that's not how that works. That's how you get an abscess toxicity job. There is not good for your immune system. Got a bunch of that shit. Okay, here's the thing. I already had very low bandwidth over this even before 2020 but after the art of the racing my bath with for reading full on white cast of characters plummeted, I can't handle story with with just a white couple full-on and especially if there's a full white cast just all around them, especially if it's a setting like fucking York or someplace like that. I can't handle I just can't handle it and that's like most of Regency, isn't it? It's most of historical and just like we're not stupid. We know people are all over the place all over the world. Like I didn't expect rain go away and it was like, I don't know how much work is possible to build off of what happened with our debate with everyone just not having enough spoons from twenty-twenty and Ed. Doing so far away but the infrastructure still being as broken as it was but then I did get for example, like books such as the Duke who didn't wear. It was like off all the rules and I'm just going to write what makes me happy and it just also made my soul happy to see Courtney Milan just write something. So Transcendent in this small moment. That's all I can ask for so, you know without losing side of my garage because I haven't received snow cat just saying this is a hard question for me to answer cuz I was a member of our to be a way for a long time like before I started the website. I thought I wanted to be a romance writer. I think I joined thousand two, maybe two thousand three and this website started in 2005. So it's a predated my starting the site and I think when I look back on her to be way, there's two things. There's the personal part and then there's the the professional part. So for me personally, I hit a point off when it did not seem that anything was going to be addressed in an appropriate fashion where I was like and I and I wrote about this I said, I'm I'm done now I am I am done. I really believe there are two ways to make change that you either storm the castle from the outside or you sneak inside and you create structural change and both of those are needed off and I didn't want to be in the castle anymore. I didn't want to try to work within I had already been doing what I could from where I was and in this weird position where I wasn't quite press and I wasn't quite a writer and was I the enemy cuz I reviewed box and was I just a troublemaker like I didn't have a set space and I never always and I never felt safe at our to be like conferences. I didn't know if I was walking up to a table full of people who like wanted to kill me which you know birth. People think of me is not my problem, but I also don't want to sit meet with them because that's stressful. So for me personally, it was a relief to be like, all right. I'm I'm done. Now if if you're going to insist on being irrelevant, I cannot help you and I'm not giving you my energy anymore and putting that down with the biggest relief. Like I don't have to worry about this. I can. I don't think about the conference. I don't think about being around people who I don't necessarily know like what they actually are thinking as opposed to being like the the fake knives of romance is a very real and talks about going to hit a lot. I was very relieved to be like, all right, I'm done. I am done with this. I am leaving and I will continue to do what I can in my own way outside of this organization. I'm not giving money or time anymore to this problem because this is this is a mess that I just don't have any ability to fix or address or get involved with and and I and I felt awful because I am really good song. Friends of the people who had worked on the board and had tried so hard to fix things and they were all just so demoralized and depleted like what the hell happened to everything I tried to do as been burnt everything I worked for five years to create has been reduced to nothing like what the hell from a professional perspective. The thing that came out of that entire experience that is off for the for the larger picture beneficial. So everything is language, right? Everyone's language to describe the problem got leveled up. Like if you're going to talk about institutional racism. Okay. Now you have an example. Okay, if you're going to talk about how white women weaponize their feelings. Okay. Now we have a really good example, if you're going to talk about how maleness is wage is alleged. I got lots of examples now, so everyone's language about the problem inside romance. I think took a level up because now we could explain to each other what it was we were talking about and that dog Is people more understanding of the problems that everyone else has been talking about for so long? I wish it didn't have to happen and I wish it didn't have to happen to people who I like and care about and I wish them the organization didn't have to get completely decimated in its public reputation for this to happen. If anything having the understanding of what needs to change on an individual and and then took a crow level helps even though it sucks out loud sideways because for God's sake think would be farther along by now, but no no, we're not do you think it was inevitable happened this way? Yeah. Yeah because I think they had several chances to address problems within the voting within the membership within the way that people were treated. Like people were saying to the organization here are examples of how I have been treated at conference at Chapters in individual individual cases, and the response was suboptimal to put it mildly dead. It's not celebrate Sarah you walking away. Like for me like the big lesson that I think has been reproduced especially took over the last six months has this idea that for I don't think people should be spending time trying to save institutions that have harmed them and it is very often that responsibility that is thrown onto the people who've been most directly harmed to to do the work to save the institution that has never done anything for them except told them that without them without this instruction. This individual would not be successful which is like a lie, and I think like the the big thing we see right is is the Duke who didn't write Courtney Milan Road about how she couldn't right cuz she was trying to spend all this nonsense that was coming down her and I think the Duke who didn't has been pretty universally beloved at this point. Everybody really likes it. And the fact of the matter is that this r w a mass. Over years was getting in the way of her work and other people's work to do the thing that actually likes would bring some good into this world and it's and it's not just the rwe has a type of problem. If we're looking at other institutions who need to be saved. I don't know. I think I just saw Google fi fire somebody for doing not much more than being brilliant and amazing. Like don't say I'm just yeah, I'm so like that is a thing that we see a lot and I just I think for me the lesson is really about how We shouldn't always try to save institutions and like we should like use they tell us they get we can't survive without their existence and and I think we need to interrogate more closely that in that statement because it is in a statement of fact, it's a statement out of desperation of out of a desire to be like legitimate and it is about power off and so so like I just I I am glad Sarah that you learn that lesson for yourself because because a lot of people don't and they feel like it's it is their failure for for calling some way for like leaving it is about them failing and is not about them and it's about the institution and is about power and it's about harm and like I just for me that's the thing that I like because I was also put in place in my workplace where I was expected to save them from all the races and they were doing and then I was like, hold on you aren't paying the extra though. So what are we doing here putting a job? Showers be not paying me for the things that I am doing. So like I'm just going to go and like in this economy. I'll have a job. I don't know where I'm going to have a job, but I would rather just not have a job than life be beholden to this power structure that is harming me on the regular and so like I think that's for me the rwa gave us a sneak preview into a saying that became like I think a more universal truth or became more universally visible as we were all just kind of sitting around looking at the world. And so that is that's like why I was I've been thinking about it. I agree, you know how sometimes people choose like a word for the year. I don't remember if it was 2018 or 2019, but my word was too it was opt out I'm going to opt out of bulshit wage being out of things that do not serve me and that has been a really good decision, but also know the older I get like my my give a fuck card every year is reduced at a much slower number like I have like two Fox for the whole year off. To be carefully very carefully maybe saving for next year. I was watching the Eurovision movie last night and I liked was just so mad how abusive that relationship was that I liked could not handle it. I was just like this like when she like got wrapped up in the thing by her neck and I was like, this is such a violent abusive relationship and like wage people that wrote. It don't see it like a not handle it. I am so upset right now. I was so mad, but it was like this thing where I was like just so abusive and I cannot do this and I like I was down there for like whatever the nice lady who was like dumping in the voice. She was deeply talented and that was like, oh I was here for cuz the rest of it was so violent and so like horrible and I just was like I said, this was funny and like I just I can't this is like the worst thing is I was so upset which is like generally like there's always a brown, cuz I like can't watch because it's such that the wrong She was so upsetting and the Viewpoint is always from a male Viewpoint and there's like never an interior life for the women and all of it was just like I cannot do this right now. But yeah, I like that was just I was like real stuck on the trauma last night of watching that your vision movie being like a lot of like, what are we talking about? This is not what love looks like. I'm going to go to a nice book about an alien girl a girl have a dog and they're going to fall in love again. Cuz I just keep reading that book right now. There's a seismic scientist who is measuring waveforms emerging from my inventory question across and they were like what the fuck is happening right now in what's happened here scientists is that Maya has mentioned the Eurovision movie has completely lost her cool off. Yes. I had so much trouble reviewing that because I mean if you take out Will Ferrell everything else is great, but there is so much Will Ferrell and he is such an ass. Oh my God, it's horrible. And you say it's completely abusive. I mean, the relationship was was horrifying also just as a performer. I was kind of going through the worst performance package nightmare that just keeps on giving so yeah, I sort of loved the Eurovision bits that I had to fast forward through everything else when I went to review it because yeah off the old shop the wrong guys that a spoiler so not at this point just spoil Ur at this point. So my question is what something you already knew or believed that you've gained a newer deeper perspective on during the year of Our Lord 2020 was such a good question. Thank you such a good question. Bucket, what's your answer? OK have a lot of opinions. He wants to talk about white supremacy. Cuz that's all we talked about in my household will discuss white supremacy. And so I would say like for me I continue to learn more about like the ways in which seems like power structures and oppression and the way they intersect and the ways in which I've missed things because of of How Deeply ingrained normative culture is and so like I always am grateful for the opportunity to keep on learning and to ask those questions and do also Be comfortable establishing myself as an expert and things because because I think I've been trained culturally to to undermine my cell phone now things that I know when I am like stating things that are true and then I like make a joke about how like I'm just hurled doesn't do anything. That's not true. I know off the stuff and so that is for me. I think we've spent a year acknowledging the existence of white supremacy shock and all United States. We just realized that are pressing black people is a bad thing and we've been doing it for four hundred years. And so that was a great then we got there so excited welcome to the party but there but there's like more to explore and to understand than to to I'm hoping to bring in the New Year. We break away from the oh as far as the word but the the binary binary of the black And whiteness, I think in the United States that binary is all-encompassing and and is drowning and I think that we all too often police that binary on top of other countries experience like shout out to Australia and so like I I hope so we because because I think also a focus on the binary actually reinforces white supremacy because we are we are saying that it is true and it exists and there is a pole for whiteness and a pole for Blackness and those are true absolute things and so like in that in that framework and we're actually like a reinforcing white supremacy by existing within that space and so like I'm so glad we've discovered white supremacy as a culture and as a people and now I hope we try to break ourselves free of it by moving away from a binary and so that's covered like, oh, yeah. Well Chris and so so like that's the thing that like, I think there are a multitude. Conversations that need to continue happening and like a multitude of different things that like me is a person that I'm excited to learn more about Susy what about you? Oh, this is my question has to go first, right? You're right. I've got two answers one of them and they're not nearly as exciting on global of my other don't think but and and I kind of looked and related I guess because you know for us. Five months of the year was really quite extreme lockdown one of them about friendship not and and relationships not having to be in a good person to be real. Yeah. I first came onto the internet from the wonderful days of live journal in 2002. And so I made all these very close friends whose names. I didn't know what his faces. I didn't know and some of them using some of them still online friends, you know, and this year in particular that's been a big thing because because so much of a socializing went online. We kind of started going well, why shouldn't Thursday? Play people overseas because actually, you know, if the time zones work, why not so regular be catching up with yes, obviously with sneezing with my Shakespeare Group, which is now about 50% International unions with friends like every month or so much high schools again have them in their overseas or interstate and I feel like I've actually got them up closer for people over sixty I think. Yeah, it's it's one of those interesting things. I think people think that online friendships aren't real sometimes but they very much are and this is really confirmed at and made it. Very very important and I suppose the other thing this year because you know, I can't possibly let a podcast go by without talking about food that's not allowed is yeah, yeah off and started, you know supporting a couple of community supported agriculture groups where you kind of basically having a share in a farm. So I've become a lot more aware of biometric climate change and just I know the weather patterns in daylesford so well now and and and sort of how that thing with food security and with privileged because of course for us, it was great that wage board to make that outlet the start of the Season most gives you wouldn't have been able to but we can this time round and it also meant that when all supermarkets, you know into the shelves. We were still getting veggies at each week and they just Was very reassuring when the economy you could be quarantined any moment just to know that your veggies we're going to arrive on your doorstep. And so it's really lovely thing where you know, I've always thought very strongly about trying to make sure my money goes to people who need it in terms of how I spend my money. You know you are that is the most gorgeous cat ever long. Do you want the Zone podcast but I think you know with with the effects on the economy of college and I know I'm not the only one thinking this a lot more people have started going. Okay, which which this is locally. Can I make sure I'm supporting regularly because you know, you really feel like okay, how do we keep these slow but some are you took him for granted? Well, exactly and that's what and there are so many small businesses. You can't possibly support them all every week. But yeah, it's been really interesting watching them adapt, but also watching how many people I know who not really being particularly conscious of this before kind of going off. They consciously this is my coffee shop and I'm going to go and buy coffee there every day to help keep them open. Yeah, I'm not going to go to Wally's I'm going to go to the supermarket. I'll be interested to see how the Big Brand supermarkets have gone this year actually took more people are trying to try and desperately to cling onto their local businesses. That was a bit rambling. But yeah, no, I agree. It was around the at all made total sense. Yeah, I think I think the thing I'm going to take out of 20/20 is on a sharper focus on what I actually value in place importance in my energy on I know my energy is a finite resource, but I realized that if you know, my energy is, you know, one through ten thousand and a normal time. I can devote 1 through 7 to my creative work that was going to be 1 through 4 because I was going to have to be taking care of the emotional needs of my family and that had to be my number one priority all of a sudden I didn't care what anyone else thought of my priorities because those were my priorities and they weren't up for discussion. Like I mean, I care what my kids off to care what my husband thinks but anyone outside of that I don't give a flying fuck this is these are my priorities and this is what I have to do so that great reduction in the Superfluous bullshit that I decided. I didn't give a shit about any more dead. Really helped me hone and focus the things that I value so that coming out of the the lockdown. We we do not have a five kilometer walk walk down for one thing. We don't use, tirs. So we don't dare. I know we don't do that but our limitations in the county that I live and have been stricter than many many places. So as we start to slowly open up the number of things that I'm going to allow back into my list is much much lower like my priorities are much more refined and I deeply don't care what anyone thinks about that. My ability to tolerate a presumption of my priorities is like no no no. No, I'm in charge. This is this is my job. This job is hard being a human as we as we discussed wage earner, but being a person is smart enough. I'm going to try not to make it harder for other people to person and in return I want people to not make it harder for me to person Yeah, so that's what I'm taking out of 20 20 a big big dose of yes, you can do this. Yes, it's hard but you're going to get through it and you have good people around you and thank you guys for being part of the good people who are around me. I think all of your people I appreciate that being part of the the group and having a one to talk to every day. All these different time zones is definitely part of the benefit of twenty-twenty and I really appreciate how much you have all been here for all of us. So I really really really appreciate it having bomb ass people to make birthday cards for I love it off. Thank you. Yeah, I mean I just like had once asked myself. What would it look like to be part of like a anti-racist workplace? And then I was like, oh wait like when I like hang out is trashy books. There's like Channel like that is a place where like I always see you Sarah as like the lady in charge, right? You are always actively working right to protect that space right wage and to protect your website and like that is not like I've never I've never been like, oh man, I gotta go have a conversation with Sarah about flat fees like that page where whereas like, oh God. I gotta have a conversation with these people. I've met like my co-workers have to go talk to them about black face and how it's a bad thing and like I have to go educate them and like right exactly and so yep. Like on our little in this little this this website you created this space that you created Sarah like you've created a space that as anti-racist and like I adore it. I don't have to Envision a place where like dead now that like it exists. Right? And so like that is the thing that I'm like perpetually grateful for because then it's not a fantasy, but I haven't put in my head right? It's a possibility people could do what they wanted to do it if that is where their intentions lied, even if it's like intentional or unintentional right? Like you have created this space and it is like a space that is like amazing and like I like I like I adore it and I adore the intentionality that you bring to that because it could be pretty easy to to let that slip if you do all day every day you're working. It takes a lot of work. So thank you for that. I'm going to turn purple Jordans purple's you like it's a beautiful color and and yeah, just hopping on them. Wagon, like I said, I told you before that. I'm not afraid to talk about race with you know, and I I I know how much work it takes for you just to get to the level where you're at home and I don't take that for granted cuz yes being anti-racist is important and everybody needs to do the work for us to go forward. But the same time just getting through the day like we're talking about just being a person is really fucking hard it is and just getting that paycheck paying rent. It already takes a lot of in a capitalist Society but you know. This anti-racist space I have never had to think about like am I running my mouth? Am I going to be run out of this space? If I'm too well, I mean, I always thought being obnoxious, but I never have to worry about being inconveniently anti-racist and more of it, please. Thank you. I I tried I don't take myself very seriously wrong. And I don't take many things very seriously, but I take the safety of the space on the site and in the select group very seriously because romances romances are about intimacy and being your authentic song and sometimes being your authentic self means talking about the things that are deeply traumatic and harmful. It has to be space to undo that harm and create a a happiness for for everybody that has took part of it and that means addressing all the ugly crappy stuff and trying to figure out a way to make it better and I really appreciate that. Thank you. And that brings us to the end of this week's episode and the last episode of 20/20. Wow, and I want to start the outrage which by the way is totally word by thanking you for listening and for all of your email and all of your encouragement. It means so much to me to know that I'm keeping you company while you quilt or walk the dogs or Dye yarn or Shelf books or clean or cook or go about your life. I am really honored to be here with you. So thank you and happy New Year to all of us. Thank you to Kathryn and Sneezy and Miami for connecting with me across many time zones. I did the time zone math. I am so proud of myself. No one had to get up at 4 a.m. And I have more episodes coming with the the viewers from our team. I can't wait to share those two. I have a joke, and this joke is terrible. This joke comes from listener James as who is a superb librarian and it's a holiday joke because it is Christmas day isn't if you're on a Friday. Anyway, here we go. What do you call a reindeer wearing earmuffs? What do you call a reindeer wearing earmuffs anything you like reindeer won't hear you. That's silly. Thank you James. If you want to send me a joke, you know, I love them. You can send them to SBJ podcast at gmail.com and please do tell me what got you through 2020. What book meant the most to you? What piece of media got you through? I'd love to hear about it. In the meantime. Thank you again for being part of the podcast. Thank you for listening and thank you for being part of the podcast Community. I am honored to keep you company on behalf of everyone here. We wish you a very very Merry Christmas or if you're like being happy Chinese food in a movie dang dead. Stay safe and warm and have a wonderful wonderful weekend. We'll see you back here next week in 2021. Smart podcast trashy books is part of the Frolic podcast Network. You can find more outstanding podcasts to listen to at Frolic. Media slash podcasts. off off

Sarah Sarah Sarah Windle Catherine Heloise Kristen L. Patriot Community Valley Winery YouTube Slash Sarah Catherine Sarah LA County Devin Price Sarah Google
132 - Nowhere To Hide Nothing To Hold

Secular Buddhism

38:17 min | 8 months ago

132 - Nowhere To Hide Nothing To Hold

"Hello and welcome to another episode of the secular Buddhism. Podcast this is episode number one hundred thirty two and your host no Rochetta today. I'm going to talk about vulnerability been mind. You don't need to use what you learned from. Buddhism here's what you learn to be better whatever you already are a friendly reminder if you are new to the podcast episodes one through five are a really good place to start to get a general understanding of a basic Buddhist concepts and teachings and you can visit secular Buddhism dot Com and click on the start here link to find access quick-access to those first five episodes and if you are looking for an online community to practice with to interact with consider becoming a supporter of the podcast by visiting secular Buddhism Dot Com and clicking on the top link. The says join our online community on patron without. Let's jump into the discussion around the Zenko on that was shared in the last podcast episode. It goes like this elder ting is to lean cheesy master. What is the great meaning of Buddha's teachings lean? She came down from his seat slapped teeing and pushed him away. Team was stunned and stood motionless among nearby said teen. How at that moment teen attained. Great Enlightenment so I want to share a couple of thoughts around this specific on because I think it has a deeper meaning at least for me. It carries a couple of deep lessons. I WANNA share some of the thoughts from the Patriarch podcast community and Share some of the insight that I gained from reading other people's thoughts around this so Ramona said to me when Lynch she came down from his seat slapping and pushing king. He was answering his question of the great meaning of Buddha's teachings which is enduring suffering when the monk nearby assumed he got slapped because he did not bow team became enlightened because in that moment he realized he should invite and bow to the suffering to welcome it. Then give it respect. Perhaps that's the great meaning of Buddha's teaching. I like Ramona's thoughts on this especially the correlation between the answer to the question the great meaning of the Buddhist teachings. We know that the Buddha taught about suffering we know that he taught you know the four noble truths are the truth of satisfactory nece Duca which is often translated to suffering the truth of the cause of unsatisfactory. Nece the truth about the cessation of unsatisfactory. Nece the truth about the path that leads to the cessation of this unsatisfactory. Nece or Duca as it was called so in a nutshell. Yes the if you were to ask someone. What is the meaning of the Buddhist teachings? It's certainly centers. Around this sense of unsatisfactory. We could call it suffering that times and I do think that when we think about it that way it is kind of interesting that this master would come down and give the answer to what is the great meaning by slapping and pushing him away essentially causing team to experience and that moment probably some unsatisfactory nece or some suffering That's fun to think about. A new Ska says quote as others have said I too felt that the being slapped and pushed away as a representation of What we do when we face suffering it works on two levels for me suffering slaps in the face and we push it away but also suffering does the pushing away by interrupting US and separating us from our experience I was also taken by the last piece Why do you not bow? I interpreted that as meaning. The teen didn't bow to the teacher. Not that he should have and that in this act he didn't give reverence to the suffering. Someti- I sometimes wonder about how much time and effort we give to feeling suffering Is it excessive? And what is the right effort? We need to put into truly move past it close quote and I like what Anouchka sharing here as well and the correlation that she brings out with the concept of of of bowing to the suffering. And that's something. I want to discuss a little bit later with with my thoughts around this Cohen. Really quick share matthews thoughts. He says quote my first reaction to this Cohen was to think of how I very often asked questions knowing what I want. The answer to be that is. I'm not hoping to get an answer. But just validation of what I already think. The answer is much like the student who's Cup is two full of tea to get any from the master. Teeing I think did not get the answer he was expecting and the other monk was saying teeing. You ask a question and you got the answer. Why are you not bowing to think the master? It reminded me that I need to be more open to the answers to questions. And also that maybe I do already know the answer. Deep down inside close quote and I enjoy matthews thoughts a lot on this topic The correlation between the story of the Cup being full and certainly the concept of asking questions. Sometimes just to get validation about the answer. We think that we're we already have or that. Were going to get. I think we all do that from time to time And this is a whole different approach right. The he certainly didn't get the answer. He was expecting and ironically. That's what led to his enlightenment at least in this Cohen right so I think there's something to be learned there that often the thing that we're looking for it won't get us the thing that we want but sometimes getting the thing that we weren't expecting can get us the thing that we We were actually after in the first place. That's Kinda fun mental correlation and last. I WANNA share Nancy's thoughts who says quote I see this co on as a role play of the First Noble Truth Life at times will slap you in the face and push you away and instead of bowing and walking away which seems to have been. His common reaction teen paused stood motionless saw and pain for what it was a slap in a push. Nothing more close quote. I like those thoughts as well to see pain and suffering for what it is a simple slapping a push and nothing more. It's a profound thought and thank you to everyone who shared these concepts in the Patriots Group. I always appreciate hearing everyone's thoughts. I WANNA share a couple of my thoughts around this co on. The Buddhist teachings are all about the truth of unsatisfactory nece. I think sometimes we suffer because we're caught in. Our views are stories and as soon as we release those views and we become non attached to our stories. The unsatisfactory nece ceases. And I think perhaps this may have been the case in this story with You know teeing asks a question. I think he gets an answer. He's not expecting and perhaps he had a story in his mind. The story of what he thought the answer should be or perhaps more importantly the story of what he thought. The answer shouldn't be and in this case. The answer shouldn't be a slap in a push and he stood there motionless. Probably 'cause he's trying to figure out what what on earth was that and when the monk nearby reminds them teen why do you not bow? Perhaps in that moment he realized. Oh that is the answer and his willingness to open his mind to let go of whatever story he had in his mind of how what that answer should be. Or what kind of answer would be a right or a wrong answer? Perhaps he let go of that story. And perhaps in that moment of Releasing himself from the views that he had Perhaps that's why he attained that enlightenment. I like to think about it that way. I don't know of that's How it went down but it makes sense to me in my head and again we're not trying to solve these stories and and get really in depth about what it means all we're trying to do is to invite introspection. What does this say about me? And it was fun for me as a Realis- ind- reread this Co on thinking. What would I do if I were teaching and I was the one who is slapped or pushed? Or what would I do if I was the the master being asked the Question Hour? They answer that then. I thought what would I do if I was the monk nearby watching all this unfold would have occurred to meet. Also say hey. Why did you not bow so? It's kind of fun to place myself in all three of those roles and again. This is just an introspective thing and the topic that I wanted to discuss today. The topic of this podcast title. Nowhere to hide nothing to hold. I WANNA poorly this a little bit with this Cohen. And just share some of the thoughts that have been on my mind over the last few days and these are thoughts that are inspired by. Pay My show durins book when things fall apart. I was reading this recently. I am still reading it with the Book Club in the Patriot community and we we have discussions around the specific reading assignment and we read one of the chapters that addresses the concept of hope and hopelessness. And I have read this before. That was fun to kind of correlate all of this again and one thing. That's fun about doing this. Podcast and about having a study group in reading with people is that I get to keep myself fully immersed in these concepts and in these teachings in in these ideas because I'm encountering them all the time right. I'm trying to keep up with reading assignments. I'm always thinking about what to talk about in the next podcast episode and at the same time. I'm I'm busy living my life doing the things that I do right now. I'm in the middle of an eight day training course same. I'm home now from having been in Mexico for a year and now I'm right back into the routine of a scheduling new students to learn to fly para motors and I'm on day. Three or four four now of this training and so my mind gets very immersed in what I'm doing in my normal day to day life. Which right now is is teaching people how to fly and teaching them how to control a paraglider wing and to control it in the wind and teaching them how these motors work and how to assemble them and and how to ultimately how to fly right. That's the goal. But it's fun that I get to correlate everything that I'm doing in my normal day to day with these thoughts and these concepts and these teachings that are centered around Buddhism and that's one thing I really enjoy about this podcast is that it it keeps me immersed and this way of thinking so anyway in this book it. It has some really interesting concepts and topics and I've been thinking about them this week. So one of the ideas that came up in payments book. She talks about the the definition of theism verses non theism and. This is a question that I receive often because people ask people who are new to studying Buddhism no or or perhaps have heard that Buddhism is a non theistic tradition but wonder what that means they. I think some people want to know What what exactly does that mean? And I think payment does a good job of talking about this in Chapter. Seven of this book where she kinda defines the concept of theism as as having something to hold having a hand to hold as we go through life and we put our our sense of hope in this notion that at the end of the day when all else fails. There's someone there who who we can. Who's going to hold? Our hand is going to make things better may or may not happen in this lifetime may happen in the next lifetime but the point is that that's where sense of hope comes from and then Buddhism as a non theistic tradition is kind of saying there is no hand to hold. There's nowhere to hide from the rawness that has life. You know life again. Using the analogy of Tetris. Life is a series of of pieces that show up some that we like and some that we don't like some that are pleasant. Some that are unpleasant. Some that just have so much tremendous joy and others that invoke pain and sadness beyond what words can describe and in the midst of all that we realized that perhaps there is no hand to hold and has just me here figuring this out and I I wanNA share correlation that. I've had with With these thoughts of Buddhism as a non theistic tradition in the past. I've talked about the analogy of comparing ourselves to Kites or birds and when I used this analogy the first time a friend of mine was interviewing me on his podcast and he was asking in the context of religion. And how some ideologies provide us with essentially the hand to hold right The thing that gives us hope it may be following this set of rules or these commandments. Or something a a sense of structure that if you comply with this structure than there's hope on the other end of it and he asked me. What would you say to someone who says? Well I have this ideology that I follow and it essentially acts has my string and the string. Hold me up. I'm the kite. And when the wind blows the kite is able to to fly safely because it is attached and that attachment to the string which represents It could represent like an obedience to the commandments or it could represent faith or belief in specific A specific belief right like belief in God or something. The this kind of acts like the string holds US air and I agreed and I said well I would say that. That is correct. The the mistake would be to assume that we're all kites and I went on to say that from my perspective. I think that there are kites and there are birds and there's nothing more sad than to see a kite flying so well and to come along and just sever that string like what a sad sight. The kite will fall and I can't fly well without the string but it's also a similar sad sight to see a bird tethered with a string right. The the poor bird doesn't may not know that it's capable of a flight on its own but when I made this correlation no I obviously view myself as the bird and feel that by untethering Or cutting that string. There was the discovery that I could fly on my own. And that my own wings Were essentially the hand to hold and I think Buddhism kind of works that way but what I didn't like about this. This comparison is A. I think some people might hear it and think that there's a a connotation here that it the kite is inferior to the bird or that. The bird is somehow better than the kite. And that's that was not my intention. My intention was to express that a kite is not a bird and bird is not a kite. And we're not all birds and were not all cates and that there's a level of skillfulness required to know the difference of one versus the other and in this specific analogy. I I view myself more as the bird than as the kites so then my thoughts have changed since then if I if I think of two other examples and I'm going to give you the examples of paragliding vs para motoring because when we're when you go paragliding you just have the paragliding wing over your head. No Motor and you have to launch from the top of the hill or cliff for somewhere where you can where you already start out high and then you you glide out and you look for thermal activity to climb back up and continue to stay up high then there's para motoring which is essentially paragliding but now you strap a motor to your back and it changes the dynamic of the experience that you're having because you don't need a hill you don't need a mountain you just take off from wherever you want and you have that something to rely on. Which in this case is the motor on your back. So in this example it's similar rather than a kite and versus a bird. I'm talking about paragliding vs para motoring. But in this analogy I identify more with the promoter then with the paragliding. And so the paraglider you could say as more requires more Faith in their own skill. Set right they have not. They have no hand to hold. Isn't there's nowhere to hide? You're exposed out in the open. And if you don't do this right you're just gonNA come down and land but if you WANNA keep flying you've got hunt and find the thermal activities. The warm air that's rising find it. spiral up in it gain altitude and then climate and then shoot out of that and go find another one and as long as you keep doing that you get to stay up and you get to keep flying now. I've spent time doing this and I've had Some scary experience is doing it. Because you're in air that's more rough and more violent and it takes a lot of skill and it can be a little unnerving and then there's the easy way I'll put a motor on your back. Go Fly when it smooth and calm and then you don't have to be You Know I. It doesn't require as much skill in terms of hunting for rising air. You don't need rising air. You just turn on your motor and let it push you up as high as you want to go and it's funny because now with this analogy I view myself as the one that does prefer having the hand to hold the motor to rely on so I had those analogies right the kite and the bird where I think. I'm more of the bird in the kite. I don't like to be tethered and at the same time if I use this other analogy Someone might say while the more pure way is to be untethered from the motor and you just rely on the winds and I'm saying well in that case I actually do prefer the motor. Give me that tether that something to rely on so I wanted to bring that because I don't want anyone to think that the bird is superior to the kite so with the analogy of paragliding impair motoring. I think the connotation could be well the more pure form the superior way of doing this is to not rely on the motor and now here I am admitting I do prefer the motor. I want the easy way so the reason I wanted to to to bring this up is because I do think that Buddhism and a lot of ways fits this description of not having anywhere to hide not having anything to depend on not having a hand to hold that is indeed kind of the Buddhist Way and the essence of the of the first noble. Truth is to understand that. There's nothing wrong with suffering. There's nothing wrong with this unsatisfactory nece. We we suffer and we think something is wrong because we're suffering and that's what kicks in this instinct to want to do something about it but Buddhism comes along and it saying the nature of unsatisfactory nece is that we all experience it and sometimes perhaps the reason we experience it is because we have our were caught up in our views. We have the stories. The moment were able to understand that about ourselves and understand that these are just stories. We can let go and we can. We can start to experience the cessation of the unsatisfactory in. It's based on the story and one of the main stories is the story that says. Hey you shouldn't be experiencing suffering and if you're that means something's wrong and this is kind of at the heart of what I was trying to convey in the last podcast episode especially around the topic of parenting right. Where parenting is hard. There's no way around the fact that there's going to be unsatisfactory nece with being a parent but I think that's also true about life. That's exactly what the Buddha was saying. The the very fact that we are experiencing life means we will experience unsatisfactory nece because it's hard and difficulties arise tetris. This show up. That didn't fit than that. We don't want in the moment we don't we realize oh. I don't want that or I want things to be other than how they are. We experienced this unsatisfactory nece. And I think this manifests quite commonly in terms of our views are stories. Here's what just happened. I don't think this should have happened. And now I'm experiencing that do our that unsatisfactory notice that is essentially what I feel because things aren't the way I want them to be so what. I want to correlate this with a little bit further. Is You know we? We talk about Buddhism. Again as this non-theistic tradition meaning there's no hand to hold. There's nowhere to hide and yet at the same time one of the first things that you learn about Buddhism and embarking on this path is this concept of taking refuge of the whole thing about taking refuge seems to contradict the notion that there's nowhere to hide. There's nothing to hold because on one side of coin we seem to be saying that he s Buddhism is saying. There's nowhere to hide. There's nothing to hold There's no firm foundation to stand on. You know I've talked about groundless. Nece I've talked about all these ideas the Becoming comfortable with this comfort and yet at the same time we're saying but you can take refuge or find comfort in or seek a form of safety nets in what is commonly called. Us called The three jewels right. They take refuge in the Buddha. I take refuge in the Dharma and I take refuge in the Sanga will. I wanted to share my personal understanding of what it means to take refuge and kind of explain this from with with the perspective that I I also believe there's nothing nowhere to hide. There's nothing to hold okay. So the concept of taking refuge when for me the and I actually wrote these down in my journal. I don't know a year to three years ago. I don't remember when I did this but in my little journal were where I keep a lot of my thoughts I wrote these down as kind of my my core values that are inspired by the teaching of taking refuge. So the first one I wrote. I value the wisdom knowledge and experience that I am capable of of achieving through my own practice. I recognize that when it comes to understanding my own mind. I am my greatest teacher to me. This is the essence of what it means to take refuge in the Buddha. That's essentially what the Buddha did right. We talk about this in terms of enlightenment. What is enlightenment mean? And I've talked about this. I've done podcast episodes about this topic. Were to me. The core understanding of the Buddha's awakening enlightenment was his realization. That he was he was the source of his suffering and he was the source of his joy and it was all him. He was him and so to me. That's what this I values is about. It's recognizing it's just me. I'm my own teacher. I am my own best friend and my own worst enemy. I am the captive one in the jail of my own mind. But I'm also the jailer. Who holds the key to unlock the prison? Cell that to me is a really profound understanding. That is empowering and at the same time confirms to me that there's nowhere to hide because it's just me and there's no handle hold because it's just me so that's the first one the second one is that I value all teachings that helped me to understand the nature of suffering the permanence of all things and the interdependent nature of all things and I recognize that wise teachings can help me to live in alignment with my values now so this goes hand in hand with the the second refuge. Which is I take refuge in the Dharma which is commonly translated to The teachings and what I enjoy about this one is reminds me that there are powerful teachings everywhere right and a lot of these for me are found in in Buddhism Buddhist teachings and Buddhist concepts and Buddhist stories and each of these coins that we read and There there's so many sources for these and I find I find value in these things because they helped me to Perceive reality in a more skillful way. So that's the second one. The third one goes hand in hand with the teaching of I take refuge in the Sanga. Which is the community and this kind of eluded me for a while. I don't have a group that I get to practice. Where they live in. A home with people are not interested in Buddhism I live in a community with people who are generally not interested in Buddhism and these concepts and ideas and topics. I don't really talk to them with many people. Even the people closest to me So I don't have that sense of community so this the way I were to this is that I value the friendship the guidance and support of others who are on this path and I recognize that I can offer my friendship guidance and support to others and to me. This is where the podcast comes in. You know it may not be in a one on one setting that. I have a closeness with view as the listener but in a way. I'm extending my friendship to you by sharing my thoughts. I'm allowing you as the listener. I'm myself to be open and vulnerable to express my views and my thoughts and some of these are my inner deep pots right. And I don't know you. I don't know who's listening and that to me is part of the sense of community. It may feel at times like it's a one way thing and I've received emails from podcast listeners. Like you who might be listening now. Who feel like you've had a little Peek into the window of my mind. And you've gotten to know me throughout the years because I share a lot of my story and where I am and what I'm doing and it feels like you have a friend in me an may feel like it's a one way street because it's just you listening to me and I don't have that back. I don't get to hear your story and with some of you I do because you'll email me and now especially do because of the Patriot community that that has opened up this new. Benue to be able to share in real time messages and emails and just live interaction with With with podcast listeners. And it's been a really fun transition From going at this totally alone till now having some people That I get to share this with but at the same time. Really whether you're in that Adriaan community or not if you're just a listener of the podcast you you're in that circle even though it may be like. I said one way but that's okay. It's okay that it's that way and and I find value in offering my friendship my guidance and support the others and that to me is part of the personal values personal version of of my understanding of the taking refuge. So it's kind of a fun correlation again. These two notions of we go through life. And we understand that. There's nowhere to hide We hide behind our stories and I may have a story about myself that I find myself hiding behind. And if someone comes and pokes and prods at that it reminds me. Oh Wow why does this Why does this feel this way? Because I'm protecting the story and I and then I pop out of there and and decide. Okay no all right. I'M NOT GONNA hide behind that and that's little by little over. The years has allowed me to be more and more comfortable with just being vulnerable and just being me and not hiding behind any stories anymore and not be hiding hiding behind any of my views. My ideas that I clung to so so tightly And recognizing that there's nothing to hold and that as I go through this whole experience and this is far from over right. I have so many stages that I anticipate going through at the same time with the uncertainty. Who knows when this journey ends but for now I anticipate there? There's a lot more hope that there's a lot more and I and I'm going through it with no hand to hold. It's me and in a strange yet profound way I have like again going back to the bird rate. I realized I don't need a hand to hold because I have my own wings and I am learning to advance with my own footing and it. It's me it's me figuring this out and there's a sense of a faith in my ability to figure things out and I'm not saying that means it's going to be easy or that it's going to be pleasant or that that's going to be An enjoyable thing. I recognize that there are going to be difficult days ahead. I know that I'm going to experience days of sorrow of pain of Of I dunno if discontent is the right word. But but certainly sorrow and sadness and heartache. Because that's the nature of life and I think the big difference from before was. I thought that there was hope in the sense that I know I can get over these things and that the rainy days one day the Sun will shine. You know the and that's an hopelessness for me. It doesn't carry a negative connotation for me it goes. It gets to the heart of what I think Buddhism has done for me is that I'm no longer afraid to feel. I'm not afraid to feel the the sadness that's going to hit me when I lose a loved one. I'm not afraid of the anxiety that I might feel If I find myself in a position where I. I'm struggling to provide for my family. I'm not afraid of the discomfort that I'm going to feel when I'm late to be somewhere and that's when I get a flat tire. I'm not afraid of the the frustrations. I'm not afraid of any of the emotions that can arise. I'm not afraid to just feel it on. That's the difference to me. That's in a nutshell. The having no hand to hold that is the The concept of of hopelessness is strangely for me or groundless nece. I think I like I like thinking about this more in terms of groundless. Nece which is that. There's nowhere to stand this just experiencing life and whatever likes gonNA throw our way. I feel like I've become good feeling. And I've shifted away from thinking that the whole point was to feel good. I realized now that now. It's much more skillful to just be good feeling and that that is a profound shift for me and I think that is what I'm trying to convey in this podcast episode sometimes I feel like my thoughts just ramble and I tried to tie it all together to connect the dots and maybe sometimes they do. Maybe sometimes I don't but again I. I think it's cool that I get to just share all this. I don't have a close person that I can call and share all these things with at times but I get to sit here at my computer and talk into a microphone and I know that when I post this there will be real people on the other side listening and these ideas carry weight and I get a messages real messages from real people who talk about how meaningful these concepts and ideas are in how life changing they are for you listening and it makes me feel very connected to you. Even though I don't know you it's just a really profound experience. I get a little emotional thinking about that but again it just makes me feel gratitude. I want to say thank you to all of you. Who Listen who take the time to listen to these. Podcasts episodes grateful for the messages that I receive and I try to respond all of them. But I I apologize that I'm so behind and don't get too because The podcast has grown quite a bit But thank you for being a part of this journey. That's all I have that I wanted to share in this specific podcast episode. I WanNa thank you for listening has always a few if you WANNA support the work. I'm doing with the PODCAST. Consider becoming a patron and joining the online community. Where we where we have live discussions about these Cohen's in these podcast episode than we do a live. Qna sessions on Sundays and live community discussions on Sundays. And as I said there's even a steady steady group slash Book Club. You can learn more about this by visiting secular Buddhism Dot Com. You enjoyed the podcast episode. Feel free to share it with others writer review give it a rating tonight tunes. And that's all I have for now but I look forward to recording another podcast episode soon but before I go. I want to leave you with another Zenko on to think about enter work with from now until the next podcast and the Cohen goes like this when the many are reduced to one two. What is the one reduced? That's all have time

suffering Cohen Buddha US Zenko nece Duca Book Club Ramona Sanga Patriot community Nece paragliding Rochetta matthews Cup Teeing Lynch pain Patriots Group Nancy
137 - The Beauty Of Nothing

Secular Buddhism

22:36 min | 6 months ago

137 - The Beauty Of Nothing

"Hello, and welcome to another episode of the secular Buddhism podcast. This is episode number one, hundred and thirty seven. I am your host Noah Rochetta and today I'm going to talk about the beauty of nothing. As always keep in mind you don't need to use what you learn from. Buddhism to be a Buddhist, you can use what you learn to be a better whatever you already are. If. You're new to the podcast checkout episodes one through five or visit secular Buddhism dot Com and click on start here, which will give you access to those episodes one through five where they're easy to find. If you're looking for an online community, the practice with and interact with consider becoming a supporter of the podcast by visiting secular Buddhism Dot Com and clicking on the top link that says, join our online community on patron. In the last podcast episode I shared a Cohen. That's goes like this own Mahn said, I do not ask you about fifteen days ago. But what about fifteen days hence come say a word about this since none of the monks answered he answered for them every day is a good day. The everyday is a good day co on is a Cohen that I've enjoyed. In fact I have it written in Japanese on a poster board on my wall every day is a good day and this has been A. a way of thinking concept. If we want to call it that that I like to keep the forefront of my mind when I'm experiencing what I would consider to be a good day. Maybe a bad day for someone else or would consider to be a bad day for me. Certainly a good day for someone else and the idea that every day is a good day because it's always based on perspective and place some time has been helpful for me to I think have a more skillful view of what good means and and the idea of what a day is. So I wanted to share some of the thoughts that came from the Patriot community do Shan says I can't escape thinking that hope is at the center of this Cohen as well as the irrelevance of the past and the future. However, I don't commonly see hope as a big part of Buddhism in general hope seems judgmental and perhaps leads to dissatisfaction about the way things are. I want to share a couple thoughts about this in in terms of the notion of hope in in Buddhism I like to remind people that the Buddhist view is always pertaining to the present moment. So when we approach concepts like hope like hopelessness specifically. It's always pertaining to the present moment. So the idea isn't that I shouldn't have hope for things in the future. The idea is that if I can experience homelessness in the present moment, what I'm experiencing is a moment of not needing things to be any different than how they are, which if you think about it that when we talk about the the definition of suffering the moment, we want things to be other than how they are. We experienced suffering now there's nothing wrong with hat. It's okay to experience suffering. It's unavoidable impact. We're going to experience this feeling times the moment we want things to be other than how they are. So what we can do in the present moment if I realized that for this one single moment, I don't need anything to be other than how it is. I'm experiencing seen hopelessness but I know hopelessness has a bad rap a bad connotation in our way of thinking in our society and it's a little strange to tell someone that the you're aspiring for hopelessness but remember it's not in the future you see this even in Buddhist. Thought like the in the Meta prayer where you say may you be happy? May you be free? May You? May you be free from suffering? May you be a piece that expression is a implies? A wish that I have for you in the future. But as far as a practice goes what I'm doing when I'm trying to experience hopelessness it's right now in this present moment, it's it's the radical acceptance of how things are all elaborate on that just a little bit more but I I wanNA share a roberts thoughts. He says, thanks for the episode. The Cohen makes me think of two things one, there's no such thing as A. Bad Day, because even if you're having a bad day billions of others might be having a good one and two time is a concept. It's existence relies on humans believing in it there are no good or bad days because beyond our perception, there are no days. Now I liked it he brings awareness to this idea of time if I say every day is a day Yeah. The the. The idea of a day is something that is a concept right? We we distinguish what a day is based on the rotation of the Sun. We've decided that's it, but you know, where do you draw that line? What if it was twenty five hours in the day and on the twenty fifth hour? There's this great thing that happened How do you define what makes it a day? Good. And what makes a day bad is at ten good things and too bad things as it twelve good bad things and one good thing you know what would make it good or bad and then you have to break down from there will then is it what? What is it by our What what would make every hour is a good hour or every minute is a good minute. Every second is a good second right where do we draw that line because again, the emphasis from the Buddhist perspective is always pertaining to the present moment and any moment can be a good moment if I just bring awareness to it and mindfulness to the moment because if you'll recall the the very definition of mindfulness as the non-judgmental observation of the present moment. So I'm observing the. Present. Moment with non judgment, it's not good or bad. It's just the moment that is and in doing. So yea, could say every moment is a good moment but that's the Co on right because who says, what's good? Who say what's good and what's bad which brings me to heathers thoughts who says this Cohen about good days and bad days brought a few interesting things to my thoughts today. I it made me think of the parable about the two neighbors who whenever something happened to his neighbor such as the horse running away or his son being a pardoned from joining the army because of breaking his leg. The neighbor simply replied who knows what is good and what is bad it is through this story that we realized that not everything is as it seems at first. So it's not wise to label things as good or bad. Also, we should take into consideration of what is good for one person may be bad for another. Finally, most of what I've been learning about Buddhism and she says I'm fairly new to the practice emphasizes being present in the moment, not dwelling on the past or worrying about the future. So perhaps, this question isn't really a question question at all. It's a reminder that we should be here in the present moment fully awakened and I kinda wanted to share my thoughts on. Building on Heather's spots here the concept of the present moment because yes the from the Buddhist perspective again, it's always anchored in the present moment. So if that's the case and I'm anchored in the present moment a a concept like every day is a good day again, I'd have to go to what about this moment and if this moment is good or bad will what about the next moment in that moment is good or bad? Well, what about the next moment and because we can't pause time We're stuck with this with this constant observation that the meaning I'm giving to a moment is just that it's the meaning I'm giving to it, and the moment I've done that it's gone and I'm on to the next moment and onto the next moment. So when I start to see it in light of Trying to be in the present moment Suddenly all of these other concepts that you'll encounter in Buddhism, make more sense Again, going back to the concept of hopelessness will share if I'm hopeless to this moment what about the next moment will that one I'm hopeful well, then what about the next one? Oh, maybe that one I'm hopeless. Like a what if you're switching back and forth literally moments a moment in half a second increments or something. So because there's no fixed time, everything's always changing notions like this start to make more sense in terms of the present moment. So those are just some of the thoughts I wanted to share regarding the every day is a good day Cohen and I want to tie this into the topic that I wanted to share today the beauty of nothing Now, this is just kind of a stream of thoughts that I wanted to share with you. The concept of nothingness in Buddhism is that I would have to entertain the question is nothing something because if you have an answer to that question and you tell me what nothing is will then now nothing is something right the idea that you have about what nothing is that is something it's a concept and it's an idea. So the idea of nothingness from the Buddhist perspective is quite fascinating because it puts you in this world of non duality again, which is is nothing something and I would argue that it is. So then there's no such thing as nothingness nothing assists something ness and that's pretty interesting to think about. So one thing I wanted to share where this starts to apply a little bit more in our day to day experience is the practice of trying to do nothing I, just got off the phone not long ago with a podcast listener who who who's a patron and was asking wanted to discuss this concept of nothingness. And we had a really fun conversation around this and talked about some of the ways that this concept of nothingness can be beneficial in day to day life I wanted to share some of those thoughts with you in the I was you know the question will how do even practice nothingness because if I'm thinking I'm trying to make time for nothing and there was a podcast episode about this making time for nothing that's why I wanted to bring this up. But if I go into the practice of wanting to do nothing I'm going to struggle if I really think that nothing is devoid of something. So what that means to be If. I. Sit here and I think, okay I'm going to do nothing what am I actually doing I'm doing something I'm thinking of doing nothing, which is something it's a lot like the the catch twenty, two that you're in. If you think, well, what is the sound of silence will listen to silence and you're going to hear something whether it's the ringing in your ears or the faraway sounds of of cars honking like. The idea that there there's always some kind of sound taking place. Even if you just say, okay, we'll the what is the sound or the frequency of the sound of the radiation that comes from the sun and just shoots right through the earth like we're experiencing that at any given moment and there's a sound associated to that whether I can perceive it or not doesn't matter. But the idea is that there is no such thing as silence at least for us here in this world, there's always some form of sound penetrating the earth from the sun or something. and. I think this concept with nothing is the same. So. To want to experience. This is to experience something nece. I'm going to experience something by by trying to do nothing. And this could be as simple as Oh communists it here and do nothing, and then I get distracted watching a little amt on the ground and I follow along and watch and realized that in this moment of nothingness, there's a whole lot of something nece taking place where I can hear the rustling of the leaves on the trees outside the window, and in my moment of doing nothing I observed that there's a whole lot of somethin' and that to me is where this becomes powerful in my external observation of nothingness would I observe a lot of something nece but now take this a step further and go inward in my. I intent to observe nothingness taking place in me what I will observe as a whole lot of something this I may be able to observe my heartbeat or the rumbling sounds in my stomach or the sound of breathing or. The observation of thoughts don't stop the thoughts are always going always racing even if I have the thought that I'm not having thoughts that's a thought I had the thought of not having thoughts and that is the dilemma with the concept of nothingness, which is what makes the idea of nothingness. So beautiful is that nothing is actually something quite a bit of something. So I was having all these thoughts with the notion of nothing and then I thought you know I would like to correlate this with a bigger topic in Buddhism, which is the concept of no self or non-self. and. I think if I if I can conclude that nothingness something and I take that line of thought of quiet something like the sense of self. Now, I'm actually onto something pretty fascinating, which is the idea of non-self. Self is nothing right from the Buddhist way of thought, which means that self is something if anything it's a concept that's an idea and it's always changing and always evolving. In one way that I like to think of this is the way that I perceive a rainbow you know the the other day my daughter who's four was looking we saw a rainbow. And she said, can can we go to it and I had to explain to her well, the rainbow something that we see, but it's not actually there. You don't get to go touch it. The closer you get to disappears because you only see a rainbow. Not because they're but it's based on how we see and now of course to a four year old this this whole notion is like. Okay I don't that was too much, right? But it got me thinking. When I perceive a rainbow, the causes and conditions arise, and suddenly I perceive the Rainbow I don't think it's much different when I proceed the sense of self the causes and conditions arise, which is that I exist I'm born my brain processes, thoughts, experiences, feelings, and emotions in this whole combination of experienced that I'm having gives rise to this and sation of a sense of self very similar to the sensation of Oh. There's a rainbow something that I can perceive. Now the I go chasing after it and I'll never find it. And I think that's the same dilemma that we're in with a sense of self which is what the Buddhist view of non-south is trying to get. It's not that there is no self it's that the perception that we have of self is off from what we think that it is and other words words the sense of self my myself is not what I might think that it is it's not a permanent thing and it's not an independent thing. It's an interdependent transitory thing that's always changing the sense of self. And this to me is fascinating way to look at it. I might think there are aspects of me that seem fixed like my personality for example, but it's not that fixed Many people will encounter some kind of big experience that can change their personality just yesterday I was hearing about someone who was saying that a really good friend who had a certain personality and way about him and he went to Rehab because he was dealing with a strong addiction to drinking and smoking and and went through this whole program and came. Out of that and was an a different person, his personality had changed. Now, some of us may not go through something that changes are personality. A crisis can do it. people who endure some kind of trauma may have a different personality. Most of us will kind of have the same personality that we've always had, and it will seem like well that what about that? That's kind of a permanent thing but it's not because what was your personality before the day you were born right? For Day, before you were conceived or the day after you die like there's no permanence in there in the same way that that Cohen Evokes when he says what was your face before you were born so but what what I'm trying to get at it? Yes. With this line of thought as that even things that may seem fixed and permanent they aren't fixed or permanent when it comes to this concept sense of self and as long as they can cause and conditions are there to see the rainbow you're going to see the rainbow. So there's no need to. Deny. What I'm perceiving I can say, well, yeah, I see that rainbow I totally see it but I know that it's not what I would think that it is and that to me is where the value comes in this as I think about the sense of self I have a strong perception of a sense of self but that doesn't mean that it that it's what I might think it could be I. I. Start to see through that illusion recognize it's what I'm seeing that matters not what's actually there that matters it's because of how I see that I perceive what I'm perceiving. So You know one another way I wanted to share some thoughts about this idea of hopelessness or really any concept in Buddhism is if we apply it to the present moment and along the lines of skillful versus unskillful. Then we have something actually Fischel and useful to work within our day to day life and the analogy that I had that popped into. My mind was if I am out on the ocean in a boat and suddenly I realize I'm caught up in a storm in a hurricane. a sense of hopelessness. One would say, oh, that means okay. I'm not GONNA do anything because I guess I'm just going to die out here. Well, that's pretty grim but the Buddhist view of hopelessness would be okay I'm recognizing Emma here in a storm and there is nothing I can do about it cannot wish this storm away I cannot pray it away like I am I'm caught up in the storm. There's no denying that that's where acceptance kicks in. Okay. If I'm caught in a storm What can I do the moment I accept that I am caught in the storm I can start to be more skilful. Okay. Well, they better bring the sales down or a better call an SOS on the radio or a better anchor myself or strap myself to the railings of the boats wave doesn't knocked me over or you know their whole bunch of things that you can do but those things are only going to happen once I recognize. This is indeed the situation that I'm in. So the idea of hopelessness and Buddhism is more along those lines and someone in the Patriot community said she likes the expression wishlist ness which which I agree I like that. It's a moment where I'm experiencing wishlist nece. I don't need it. I don't need to spend time wishing that it was any other than how it is going to just say this is how it is in the present moment and if I'm caught in a storm in a boat in the ocean, then I'm going to do the things that I know are skillful to do in that moment rather than sit there wishing I wasn't in the storm because. No amount of wishing is going to make that storm go away. So that's kind of a along the lines of of what I wanted to share in terms of this concept of of the beauty of nothing to me the beauty of nothing is the recognition that the beauty of nothing is, in fact, the beauty of something there's always something and Yeah. So those were some of the thoughts that I wanted to share. This podcast episode was inspired by a recent phone call conversation like had mentioned before and it I wanted to just share much of those thoughts So I hope you enjoy this podcast episode I want to close it with another Cohen that you can think about during between now and the next podcast episode, and this is one of those Big Cohen's I would say perhaps of all the Cohen's this one is the most famous at least in Zen circles and this is the co on called Joe Shoes Mu. So Joe Shoe was a famous Chinese zen master who lived in Josue, the province from which he took his name one day a troubled monk approached him intending to ask the master for guidance a dog walked by monk asked Joe Shoe has that dog a Buddha or not? The monk had barely completed his question when Jochen shouted moon that's the Cohen I will explain more about it and share some of my thoughts about it in the next podcast episode. Thanks again for listening and until next time.

Cohen Patriot community Heather Noah Rochetta Mahn roberts Joe Shoe Jochen Josue Shan Emma fifteen days twenty five hours twenty fifth four year one day
130 - Three Approaches for Doubt and Mistrust

Secular Buddhism

37:16 min | 9 months ago

130 - Three Approaches for Doubt and Mistrust

"Hello and welcome to another episode of the secular Buddhism podcast. This is episode number one hundred and thirty. I am your host Noah Rochetta and today. I'm going to talk about using doubt and mistrust and how essential these things are on the Buddhist path as always keep in mind. You don't need to use what you learn from Buddhism to Buddhist. You can use what you learn to be a better whatever you already are quick announcement. I'm excited to announce that I will now have to additional perks for podcasts supporters on the Patriot community. Who are looking for more. Live interactions on a weekly basis as the community continues to grow. I want to offer value to podcast supporters. Beyond what you get from just listening to the podcast so I have two options that I'm going to start doing every week. Now the first one is using a platform called crowd cast. I want to offer live. Qna and Ama which is asked me anything sessions. When I first started learning about Buddhism I really wished I had access to a teacher or a mentor. Or someone who could help me navigate my way through all of the concepts the teachings and the practices. I had a lot of questions but I had to go searching for everything on my own and I know that finding a Buddhist center or a teacher is simply not an option for for everyone based on where you live or how much time you have and I wanted to make myself available every Sunday for a live. Qna session where listeners and supporters you can pick my brain about anything related to Buddhism or related to the topics and the podcast. Really anything at all. So who is this four? This is for anyone who is wanting to learn more about Buddhism Buddhist teachings concepts practices and who wants to work with a teacher to learn more. So this is something. I'm going to be doing Every Sunday from now on and then the second thing is similar but this is using zoom as you know zoom kind of the big rage right now. Zoom allows us to have live group discussions and interactions so the second component to this is the sense of community community is an important part of the Buddhist path and having someone to talk to is extremely valuable patriae on allows us to communicate with each other. But it's somewhat limited and nothing compares to Real Life Interactions. So I thought the next best step is to meet virtually online. So as of This week I'm going to start using zoom to allow podcasts supporters to be able to have a greater sense of community where we can get to know each other and have discussions around the podcast episodes and Be able to break out into smaller groups and have live discussions around the topics that we're learning in the podcast and discussed the co on or anything else that needs to be discussed in a one on one life setting with other podcast listeners and there will be the opportunity to practice meditation awareness practice and more and these meetings are going to follow a structure to maintain an orderly discussion. So who is this for? This is also. This is for anyone who wants to meet and discuss Buddhist concepts ideas and topics with real life people in a live setting and that's also going to be set up every week. So if you WANNA learn more you can have access to either one of these or both of them simply by become in a podcast supporter on patron at the lowest tier. Which is essentially the cost of a cheap cup of coffee. Every month is three dollars a month to have the community access in. That would give you both of those options for the live settings. So that sounds interesting to you. You can learn more about that by visiting secular Buddhism Dot Com and clicking the link on the top of the page that says Patriots on. So that's all I have about that in terms of the announcement and now this jump right into the discussion around the Zenko on that was shared in the last podcast episode. So this Cohen says one day. Chaozhou fell in the snow and called out. Help me help me help me up. Held ME UP. A monk came and lay down beside him. Chow Chu got up and went away. And that's it. That's the Cohen. And I WANNA share first of all some of the thoughts that come from the Patriot community. Because as you know I've mentioned we we have discussions around the podcast in around the Cohen. And I WANNA share some of these thoughts so ellen says quote this is what the Co on makes me think of when experiencing difficulty emotions like grief or depression and your loved ones. Want to help. But there's no way to pull you out of those feelings or make them go away so often. The best way to help is just to be with you. While you're feeling them the feelings can run their course with someone you love by your side until you have the strength to get up on your own close quote and I agree with Allen's assessment here I think oftentimes we try to help someone and our way of helping isn't helpful and other times. You know all we really need to do is be with someone and just by being with them like in this case the monk lays down beside him and that's all it that's all he needed. Chaozhou got up and went away is what it says. Okay Matt says quote I think it is an example of reactivity chow falls and his initial reaction is to panic. He fears that he cannot free himself from the situation. The monk comes in lies beside him to show him that. The situation is not a crisis he too is lying in the snow and did so voluntarily in doing so one can see that there is no emergency lows quote. This is an interesting take on it. I hadn't thought about it from that perspective but I think again with these. Cohen's you know this is a an invitation for you to extract meaning or whatever you're going to get out of it for you and it's Kinda cool. That Matt stalled this. This is kind of a different angle to it that I think is accurate. And a lot of instances in life where we are in a situation and we're thinking how Megan to do this but it's helpful to know that somebody else has been in this situation and they were able to find a way to to cope with it or deal with it then I can too and I know I felt that before and honestly I think a lot of us are feeling this. Now with everything that we're going through with the lockdowns in the With with the covert nineteen. I was telling my wife this the other day how much more difficult it would be to face these uncertainties in terms of jobs and the potential financial repercussions. If if I knew this was just happening to me but somehow by knowing that the whole world is trying to figure out what to do about work in about Income and things like that somehow makes it so much less stressful. Because I know it's not just me. We're all trying to figure it out and that's kind of what Matt is talking about here so I I like that thought. I think there's something there to it. Suzanne says quote this Cohen. Really resonated with me and I was reminded of the key. Idea of Montessori. Education helped me to do it on my on. Chaozhou asks for someone to help him help them up. Which would be quite a passive way of reacting to the present situation like a child asking their parents to do something for them. Instead the monk lies down and shows Chow Chu the passivity of his response. Once having realized this Chaozhou is able to act for himself it up under his own steam and walk away and then she says it it also reminds me of the raft analogy the monk and his compassion are the raft which enables Chow Chu to get up and leave behind the monk. Which is the wrapped? Close quote. It's always fascinating to hear other people's perspectives on these stories. Because we're all in different places in life we've had different experiences in life and we see things from a unique vantage point. And that's what I thought of when I was reading Suzanne's take on this. Like what a cool way to see that again from a perspective that hadn't crossed my mind and the correlations that she's drawing that hadn't crossed my mind and I liked them They make a lot of sense to me and then I wanNA finish with one more with Nancy's thoughts so nancy says quote. This Cohen makes me think about when I have a problem or situation that is troubling me and I turned to a friend or a loved one for help. The best help I have received is when that person simply sits with me and listens close quote and that's getting back to kind of the way Ellen talked about it and what I kind of took from it. Which is that sometimes. The best help is the help. That's just being with someone and not actually trying to help that certainly a lesson. I took away from it and I think sometimes we see this in our own lives that the best way to help someone to just sit and be with them and to not try to help in fact. Oftentimes the trying to help makes the problem worse. I know I've experienced that Both as the receiving on the receiving end of that but also on the other end where. I'm the one who's trying to help and I'm catching myself that my health is not helping him. I don't know if you've experienced that would assume some of you have. You can kind of correlate this also with the concept of teaching people to fish instead of giving fish I've correlated this a little bit with the thought of with my kids like teaching them how to think rather than what to think so. Yeah my mind has gone to a lot of different places with this co on. But at the end of the day I like visualizing Chow Chu Falling in the snow. And calling help me up helped me up. And then among laying there next to him and Chacha just gets up and walks away These little stories can always be unpacked to gain a lot of perspectives and thoughts and teachings and again. There's never a right answer. The point wasn't the answer. The point was what did it make you think of in the process of thinking maybe learned something about yourself. I think that's what's cool about these. Cohen's moving over to the topic that I wanted to discuss in today's podcast episode the concept of the three stages of doubt. So I let me set you up with what prompted this like me. Many of you are probably seeing all kinds of crazy stuff on facebook. These days right stories about this and conspiracies about that and there's a part of us that cycle which views are right. How could we possibly know? How can I take what I'm experiencing right now into my own personal practice and the amount of healthy skepticism and doubt that has gone into my analysis of the various news sources in crazy stories and videos that I've watched is what inspired this topic? I thought you know in Buddhism the concept of mistrust. The concept of doubt is very important. You know there's the expression in Zen Buddhism this has big doubt big enlightenment. Small Doubt Small Enlightenment. No doubt no enlightenment and I really liked that because without questioning our views. We can't possibly see new things. We cannot experience a new way of seen things and when I used to go around and teach the workshops the introduction to Buddhism and the introductions of mindfulness workshops there is analogy that I used often about the tinted glasses. And how we're going through life wearing these tinted glasses and if you've ever worn glasses that have a tent like red or green or blue. It affects everything that you look at. Everything is tinted by the color of the glasses that you're wearing and if I were to be born with those glasses I've never taken them off and I've only ever seen life through the the tint of the lenses that I'm looking through I wouldn't know to even mistrust that what I've seen is tinted. I would think what I'm seeing is reality. This is how things are. Everything's slightly green and I may never know that there's a tent there if I'm not willing to at least entertain. I the idea that maybe the way I see is not correct. So that's where this concept of of mistrust and doubt comes in. I think one way to almost invoke. This sense of mistrust is to just consider the views of whatever you're opposing political views are right if you're a. Democrat look at the news. That's coming from the Republicans if you're a Republican look at the news. That's coming from Democrats and you're going to have almost a natural sense of mistrust arises just naturally right if it's and you don't have to be American with Republicans and Democrats happening all over the world whatever. Your views are looking at the opposing parties views and notice. What arises in you. What you should be experiencing most likely as an instant sense of mistrust if so and so said it. I don't know about that if my team said. Okay I trust that. I'm not even GONNA question it and this is this is where we have the opportunity to take some of that same mistrust in that same skepticism. That is so easily flung to the other side and apply it to your own views. That's essentially what we're practicing Buddhism. I just want to emphasize here. This isn't meant to leave us. Crippled with indecisiveness isn't meant to paralyze us with fear. And say all now. I don't know what's true. This is meant to liberate us from the attachment to our views. We talked about this often. Buddhism right that the the good concepts or bad concepts good ideas or bad is good beliefs or bad beliefs. They're like chains that bind us. And that's not necessarily a problem. We're all bound by our ideas. What it means though is when I'm attached to a view I'm not completely open to the possibilities of changing that view and if I can learn to develop what we call the beginner's mind Buddhism it's like the mind of a child it's always curious it's always learning and it's always adapting to whatever's being thrown at it that is the mind that whereafter in our practice and if you think about it we are always doubting right. What is it that we're doubting? Will we doubt whatever contradicts what we already think? We know we do it. Everybody does it. That's why it's so easy to question what somebody is saying if I don't agree with them and and that's also why it's so easy to to overlook what might be poor quality news if it's coming from my team because there's this already this assumption with as my team saying that. I don't even need a question. It it's good and one Buddhist way of doubting is to be a no word that is mistrusting of both directions. So I wanNA talk about this a little bit too neat concept that the three stages of doubt this I heard this idea in the book called Mind in Tibetan Buddhism and the author's name is Lottie Rainbow and I'm GONNA post a link to this in the show notes. Were you can if you want to look up that book? It's on Amazon. But there he talks about this concept of the three stages of doubt and the idea is that you can take a statement of fact like as an example. The Universe is infinite. That's the statement and then you have the three stages stage one or three levels. I'm not sure if stages is the right word but you've got these three ways to approach doubt one is where you tend towards the fact. The other is where you tend towards the distortion and then the third one is where you tend equally towards both so. Here's the example if we were to say the universe is infinite. If I'M GONNA lean towards that fact I might be thinking you know. The Universe is probably infinite right. I'm leaning towards the fact if I'm leaning towards the distortion which is essentially. I'm leaning towards the other side of the argument I might be thinking the universes probably not infinite and then there's this middle ground right. 'cause WE'RE TALKING. Buddhism there's always the middle ground where you tend towards both equally. Were here you might not be able to make up your mind and you're just going to be left with wondering whether the universe is infinite or finite is finite or infinite and that's the third stage. Now why is this helpful? Hockett this how could this be practical in day to day life? Well in Buddhism like I mentioned before doubt is beneficial because it is the first step in weakening the possibility of having a wrong view now that to me is fascinating. I want to repeat that. Because doubt in Buddhism is beneficial because it is the first step in weakening wrong view. And as you know in the full path right view or skillful view is the view that we're after the. How do we know which view is skillful in? Which one is not skillful? We we don't so we have to operate under the assumption that what we think may not be true it may not be the most skilful way of you in something will. How could we possibly know if we have the wrong view if we're willing to doubt our view so that's the first thing that I want to mention here? In Buddhism you're encouraged to carry a healthy amount of skepticism and doubt towards your own views. And this is where the story of the monk emptying the teacup right like if by emptying the tea cup you can fill it up with whatever new knowledge. Whatever new view you're going to have but you cannot physically do that. You cannot fill a teacup. That's already full. It cannot be done and it's the same with our views. We cannot have a new view. If we're not I willing to accept that we might have an incorrect view or at least question the view that we have so in that sense we must have an open mind willing to accept that we may have an incorrect view in order to start the process of arriving at the correct view. Whatever the correct you may be so if I were to tell. Hey you're seeing things through tinted glasses and that's affecting what you see the green tent that you happen to theon. Everything is an accurate depiction of the world it's caused by the Green Tint of your glasses will at that point. You're left with the option of believing me insane. Maybe maybe the way I view things is off or you could think I'm absolutely not some crazy and that's it you don't want to hear anything else from me. You could be angry at me because you're upset that I'm assuming that you don't see things correctly and that's just one example right but that's what we do. We all go around thinking that the way that we view things now. That is the right way but the way you view things now. That's not the right way and we think that if I can shame you enough about your view than maybe you'll adopt my view and that absolutely does not work. Anyone who's been on facebook knows that's just not how it works so rather than focusing all of our energy on trying to correct everyone else's way of viewing things what we're doing in this practice is we're just trying to understand. How how do I see things? And the example I gave. That's how oversimplified example because first of all it's not very easy to identify any tent in your way of viewing that you have. I mean it's hard enough to identify the tent that I may have in in my own views. So much less am I gonNA be able to confidently point out. What kind of Tint your Distorting in the way that you view I don't know I'm just trying to figure out my own life here so I think it starts with the recognition of the mere possibility that my view might be wrong. That's where I start. I WANNA make a big change in the world. I've gotTA start with at least recognizing the maybe the way that I'm doing. It is not the most skilful way and again. There's a strong emphasis in Buddhism to avoid believing in Buddhist teachings instead we're encouraged to evaluate them to understand these teachings and ultimately the test them against our own experience. So how do we avoid getting stuck in doubt and getting paralyzed with fear? I think to me. Uncertainty is the important thing here because when we are no longer attached to the need to be right or to have a sense of certainty in our view then we can move more comfortably each view that we hold and to me. This is the space of such nece. What we call such nece and Buddhism at this is the beginner's mind. This is the unknowing mind. There are a lot of ways that this is talked about in some Buddhist literature. Even Equates Enlightenment itself with this idea of such nece which to me is the tending towards both equally. Were I may not be able to make up my mind whether this is this or that that now you have to pause for a minute and just recognize that. This is probably running. Contrary to almost anything you've ever been taught in terms of our Western way of thinking in our society. We do not like to not know things. In fact we're so uncomfortable with the uncertainty of something that we would rather believe that even if we're wrong but have the certainty that no. It's this because the answer I don't know is not acceptable in our society. We do not like to not no. I think it'll be really helpful. If we think about this in terms of skillful versus unskillful and there are some things that we will simply never know because they're just unknowable. And I'm not referring to the big existential questions like is the universe. Finite or infinite. I'm referring to smaller things like the concern. I have well my kids turn out to be the way that I hope that they will or will my spouse always love me or will. I remain satisfied in the current job by men. You know those. Those are equally troubling questions that we want to feel a sense of certainty. Were not okay with the answer. I don't know we want to know so we'll We'll stick with either. Yes or no. But at least it's certain and with such nece we both perceptions to coexist one possibility on one end of the spectrum and the other possibility on the other end of the spectrum and we find comfort in the uncertainty. Now that is a really fascinating thing to be able to do like the. But there's a lot of skillfulness in here and I wanNA give an example of this In terms of skillful and an unskillful because again. I'm not saying we need to be indecisive or wishy-washy about our views. I think we can absolutely hold onto a view wild practicing non attachment. I'll give you an example of what I'm talking about here. Let's just say The example of a of a spouse. If I have a spouse and someone were to tell me hey I think you're I think if I were to think my spouses cheating on me and I believe that they are but but really they're not think of how unskillful that belief is in my relationship now? The only thing that gives it credibility is the importance that I have in my need to be right and unfortunately in this case I believe that mice the that they are. What is that GonNa do to my relationship if knowing you know in real life? They're not but I think that they are. That would be very unskillful for me to continue to operate under the assumption that they are simply because I believe it. Now let's flip the the other side of this. Let's say your spouse really is in reality. They are but you believe that they're not. It's the same dilemma here. How unskillful is it to continue operating under that set of circumstances where the only thing making me continue to behave? The way that I am is I cannot let go of my belief and my belief says that they're not and there may be all these clear red flags essay Yeah they probably are but I can't see them because I'm blinded by my belief so you can see the dilemma here right I. It's not about whether they are or they aren't it's about am. I willing to entertain the opposite of what I believe. Am I willing to at least take my belief in say? Maybe I'm wrong. And then at that moment I'm a little bit more free to look at other Potential evidence or red flags that would be contrary to the belief that already formulated. So that's one example. Another one that I think of often is in terms of Religion Right. I've I've talked about this with my wife where I've said you know the problem with our beliefs. Is that once? We formulate a belief you can be presented with evidence that runs contrary to it and you will not see it. You cannot see it and the example that I've I've talked about if I was a a devout Christian and I believed that Jesus is is coming right the second coming. What would I do if he appeared with one of my competitors? That's not the right word. Not Competitors but let's just say. I am a devout Catholic and Jesus shows up with the head of the Jehovah's Witnesses. No would I just instantly be like? Oh Yeah I guess they were right or would I be like Nah? There's a conspiracy here. That's not the real Jesus other just trying to trick us. I think that's what most of us would do right and put yourself in this position. Whatever your view is what if the thing you're expecting didn't happen that way. Would you find reasons to you? Know to to explore at that point okay. We'll let me look into this or are you going to be like no way no way. That's not what's really happening. I think most of us would do exactly that we would say nope. That's not what's happening. This is a conspiracy if You know what would the average Christian think if they look up into the heavens and it's not Jesus is coming it's Krishna. Do you really think that most Christians would just be like. Oh Okay Yep I guess it was the Hindus. They were the right ones. Let's all switch. No way they'd say that's the devil the devils impersonating and trying to fool us and Blah Blah Blah right or if it was Jesus what are the Hindus GonNa think that. And that's just the fun mental experiment because that's Or what is the Atheist GonNa Think? There's Jesus in the sky. Do you think the atheists back. Oh I was wrong. Okay back to Christianity or are they most likely to back okay. Who's pulling the strings? Here this is a elaborate prank. Because they've already decided there is no Jesus and that's what I'm trying to get that with this Again I use that as an example because I think a lot of us can kind of understand how strong Beliefs. How how strong beliefs are very difficult to look past? And that's why I brought up that as the example you could be a believer and there's nothing that could be presented to you. That's going to make you not believe and vice versa. You could be a non believer. What what are you going to present to the non believer? That's GonNa make them back. Okay now I believe and granted. I'm recognizing that people shift from one view to another believers become non believers and non-believers become believers and believers become believers of other beliefs. That happens all the time but I don't think it happens willfully like hey I just don't WanNa believe this anymore and I know that because I've gone through that myself. I've transitioned from one belief system to non belief and it was not intentional like hey I'm just not going to believe one day. It doesn't work that way. It was a series of events that makes you think a certain way that makes you question the way that you think before you know. You're like I don't know what I think I stopped believing and I think it's odd to me when people will question that and think now you know you just chose to not believe and I'm like I couldn't do that in the same way that you know you go up to Christian and say okay. We'll if it really is that simple in its just about choosing. Go ahead and become Muslim now why don't you go ahead? And just switch everything over and believe in Allah. They can't I mean they can't. You can fake it but you can't. It's not natural right and yet Christians convert to Islam is Members of Islam will convert to Christianity. It can happen but it's not happening because someone just decided I want this to happen. It happens because you go look in. So this is this is where that concept of doubt comes in if you're not willing to doubt your own views or if you can't doubt your own views than you can't see anything other than what you're seeing and this is where. I think this is the wonderful thing about doubt. Is that it it can propel us in the direction of a more skillful view and I don't think we have to think of this in terms of of true false right wrong. You know I think a again. I always emphasizes. I liked the idea of skillful versus unskillful and when it comes to big things like beliefs. I like what French writer Andre Once wrote. He said believed those who are seeking truth. Doubt those who find it and I really liked that. I KINDA WANNA wrap up my thoughts on this topic with that quote in mind and I. I want to invite. Invite you to stay open. Stay curious to stay non attached to the certainty that your views are right and I'm not talking religious views. I'm talking all your views. Your political views whether or not this corona virus thing is a hoax whether or not I'm talking about any view. Any single view that you have. Maybe just. Maybe things aren't what we think they are. Just maybe the view that you have isn't the most accurate or the most skillful and maybe with these three stages of doubt you can start tending towards both extremes both ends equally to where you cannot make up your mind and you wonder whether or not it is or it. Isn't I think that's a very skillful view to hold and again I I? I'm not saying this because they want everyone to be out there thinking. Well I don't have any opinion about that. I'm not saying that I have strong opinions about things. I have strong political views on a certain things this way or that way but I'm not attached to it meaning. I understand why I hold this view because I can't help having been raised where I was raised having adopted. The societal. The is that I have and all these things that make me have an opinion but that does not mean my opinion is right so I'm always willing to entertain and to explore the view from the other side. I don't care what belief it is that I have. I'm willing to entertain the view of the other side and often I will and I'll be like after hearing the argument. Yup nope I'm still leaning on this side but even then it's not with a death grip that's like well. I mean keep presenting keep on presenting information. Maybe at some point something will click. Okay yeah that does make sense. But until then this is what makes sense. And that's how I view All of my beliefs all of my views. I hold them very lightly. And that's something. I love about Buddhism. I feel like it gives me the permission to hold my views lightly even and especially my views That I get through Buddhism because I'm not asked to believe any of this stuff. These are concepts that I get to work with and test and see how I feel about them and see if they work for me and they do. That's why I'm teaching and sharing all these concepts and ideas because it has been a very liberating way of engaging with reality a reality that cannot completely understand and that I cannot completely discern if one thing is correct or not but I get I get to try to understand it a little bit more and more every day. That's what I love about. Science rated take the process of continually uncovering learning new things. But it never has to be set in stone. All right so I kinda got a little off topic there. But that's what I wanted to share with you. This concept of the three stages of doubt and how beneficial it might be if we were all willing to at least empty or cup a little bit and especially if our if our intent is to fill our cup with more knowledge will then you gotTa dump out. What's in there right? You're not you're not gonNA ever have any change of use if you're not even willing to entertain the possibility of maybe. My view isn't the most accurate or isn't the most correct all right. That's all I have for this podcast episode as always. Thank you for listening if you want to support the work. I'm doing the podcast considered becoming a patron and joining our online community. Where we discussed the cohens and these podcast episodes and as I mentioned before the Live Interactions. That are not taking place there every week. And if you WANNA learn more about that you can visit secular Buddhism dot Com. If you enjoyed the podcast episode please share it with others. Writer review give it a rating and I tunes and that's all I have for now. I look forward to recording another podcast. Podcast episode soon. But before I go here is Zenko on to work with between now and the next podcast episode. This is classic. It's one that I have to mention if I'm doing all these odd casts and this is what is the sound of one hand clapping him. That's it that's your co on. Thank you for listening until next time

Cohen Chow Chu Zenko Patriot community facebook Ellen Suzanne Chaozhou writer Matt Noah Rochetta Qna Ama Chaozhou Allen Megan depression Nancy
Shaun T and Scottie B are Sweatin' Right Now

If These Ovaries Could Talk

58:16 min | 7 months ago

Shaun T and Scottie B are Sweatin' Right Now

"This episode is brought to you by modern fertility and the new podcast kids these days. We're happy to have them on board making this show up. We really ugly so are. Welcome to. I could talk. I'm gene. I'm Robin where your host, Lucia. A. Spa. I am a lesbian. We need to tell our stores. Not your nuclear family anymore. such as your mom badmin-. We're not learning. Hi Guys Hi Everybody Day. Six, hundred, ninety, five, thousand of. Here we are I. Know Still Pride. We're still trapped. People protesting in the streets, black lives matter trans black lives matter. We stand in solidarity, but we did just get some good news. We know week. Listen in a sea of bad news. Robin like it has just been bad news after bad news. That's why I was like we gotta talk about good news is do we do so what happened, Robin? What happened the Supreme Court? A conservative Supreme Court. I was really nervous about this. We talked about this case with Anthony in our lawyer questions at the beginning of the season, but the Supreme Court ruled that they cannot discriminate against lgbtq employees. It's amazing. I didn't think it was going to happen and I was afraid it was going to struck down. It came as a real shock. It came as a real shock to everybody so basically you cannot be fired for being for your for your sexuality Orientational. Thank you sexual orientation or gender? It was always gender, but what trump was doing? His administration was trying to say that gender did not also apply to sexual orientation, and surprisingly enough like some conservatives dissented, and not descended I guess I mean I says wrong way to say it, but some conservatives came over to our side and. said that it should be protected. I know I can look at us I guess. Everybody was shocked that it was Gorsuch who actually came over to our side and he actually even wrote the opinion. It's amazing, no crazy things just like you said just like nice to have a little bit of good news, but we're still. There's still so much happening. They're still. We still got fight, so but today today we do this. Take the win. Take the win, and then and then carry on carry. Yes, carry on, is that. I don't know he just made it up. All right well, we also want to thank some of our new folks who are joining our Patriot community. You got a special. Thank you to our newest members Hannah Fletcher, Ashley Divall and then we have an interesting one. I'm calling her emily with the hard last name to pronounce. That's a good way to do because. and asked how to pronounce it, and she was just like Oh. Don't worry about it, but I. Still Feel like you joined our community, and you're supporting us, and and we need to say that emily with hard last name to pronounce a supporting us. Thank you, emily with the hard last name to produce emily with a hard lesson I think she should become a new character on the podcast Helen Helen. Can you get? Emily me. How his jealous of hard pronounce Oh. Helen Murdoch fiery Taylor Lisi just Helen. Now Never GonNA stop. She's not going to stop. Sensitive Ranting in the. Hell in, we love you. Oh, you let her in the kitchen. I mean she's cooking lunch. It's Fine A. HEAP. If, you'd like to join our Patriot community. You're going to get all kinds of bonus content. You get some video of the episodes, because now that we zoom we video everything and that might continue after this corn. Look we've. We've grown so much since the quarantine. We're learning new tricks a wherever you go new tech new tech. You know so swag for joining all kinds of stuff you can just head over to Patriot. Dot Com slash ovaries. Talk, and you're gonNA. Get all kinds of stuff I also want to mention that the videos are ad free if you are beautiful ads. Like are beautiful ads fantastic. We write them ourselves guys we do. We have fun with them. Art were moving on Jalan. She's doing the role the finger thing. I close the door on. HOW ALL RIGHT LISTEN! We have SEAN T and his husbands Gaza. Known Locker also known as Scotty. It's gotTA. Be You guys know we've been talking about Sean? T A lot because he has an impact on onto sweat right now, so he has a new podcast coming out, which everybody should checkouts call? We are family our family, but also I know shanty from way back in the day because I have been following. He's A. He's a workout guru. Guru. He's dreaming. You know I just WanNa. Be Clear you don't actually know. Sean Anti You. Stocking shanty and fitness apps does not mean you know him. I have into it like I did all of his stuff. I have he's you know he's the founder of insanity. He's one of the guys of beach body like he is in. He's in the workout. World and I love him and Scott's a former professional athlete i. mean these two are just like a power couple. With just like rippling rippling APPs, I look like that, too. I can't believe they didn't do the interview. With their shirts off. I was a little disappointed. He not take his shirt off his shirt. His always Shanti he didn't. He actually were closed during the in house. T Jed you. How dare you anyway? Let's get into this. Helen. Tape holidays please all the tape. Uh. Scott and Sean t John Scott. CITED, we're amazing. We just got done working out. I'm might be surprised to people that we actually got done working out, but we're. We're sitting here. We're hot and sweaty. Yes, we don t santia sweating right now i. hear you say that all the time because I work out with Shanti. Wanted to talk to me even though you work out. The listen I'm kind of Fan girling right now, and that kind of I'm totally. Because I guess I could do it. Show I can do it. To eliminate the anx. Bet You feel when you see sean. I have because he'd been in quarantine i. have many Afro so just make potential. It's not thirty Sean. T twenty five. You Post working out like your hair is happening. And you're both glistening after working out, I look like a tomato against just like like a Cesspool I'm ahead like it's not happening the way it is for you to. Setting? We are in our transportation center, so we did get a chance to jump in the shower, really fast best the only reason why we look some together because this hair when I saw your life five minutes ago or eight minutes ago was at night and he he's he's. He's perfectly `let us we we have. Lean over the camera we have. We're we're. The gay men Jamie. We showed up and put some eyeliner on, and we're like and we feel like we did something big robin. You put eyeliner. Mascara. Dare, you I didn't even do that. No, US lesbians were always I. Joke All the time that your kids you boys. Kids always looked so much more together than our lesbian kids all. Oh. Has Curls days and I tell you what they're i. mean they that when you see that genuine kid of the curls. As a kid, you like wow, those girls are amazing. His curls are curls on curls on curls and Mike. He wakes up in the morning and they're on. The new product at online. Poor kid I would love to have your curls, but I. Just don't know what to do with I'll tell you really big address. Everyday fouls will say. Most of the time I was A. Sixty percent of the time they just wanted I was standard likes to wear clothes like he has like he fixes close out in the morning is very good on what he wears. He knows what matches. It's crazy. He changes his outfit at least once or twice throughout the day. He's like I want i. want these shoes I wanNA wear, and so neither ince's a diaper diaper wants to. Play on dirt and water and you scientists. Amazing is so good. We gotta get into it, but before we get into all this in your whole family. You have to give us your thirty second elevator pitch of who you are, and one of you can do it, or you can both do it together. You can bounce off each other. It's up to you. Jump in Paul's you. And I have the official time clock radio. Just, no pressure on your mark. Get set. Go, I'm. And I'm Scott and we are the blockers. Most people know me is Sean See when I'm home. I am a blocker and we have two kids via surrogacy that took us five years to have end lots and lots of money, and now we have them in the our. Men have been and sometimes like what the hell. They're amazing. SMART. They're very energetic and fun and we love them and. Can we give them back we're not. I-. Surfing well done. You know what we're GonNa get along with you very well. On, we please give our kids to someone. We each have kids with different wives. We are not together. We have to say that everybody knows that. I was like, are they? There's no. New Whenever, we asked us that was no, and then we're like. Oh, no, like each other. It's cool. No, we both have two kids each with our wives and we want to give them back all the time. So much work. Normal. that. needs to be said. People need to say this on air so that other parents can feel okay about their feelings. This is my feelings I. Think for me my realization. I do a lot of thinking in my head I have always done it. I think it's why no, it's because growing up gay and I didn't have anyone to really look the people. I knew about were Billie Jean. King and Martina Navratilova and they were both like ostracized for being an athlete, because I was a professional athlete, and so I spend a Lotta time in my head, trying to figure out what's going on and how it can get rid of it, and all these things and I realized over this last week. Week that I really like to work. I really like to succeed. I really like to spend time with my husband and when I do all of those things, it pulls me away for my kids, and that's when the guilt happens and I'm thinking to myself. I spend a lot of quality time with them. I should be able to spend quality time with myself or my husband, so one of the things that we do is on the weekends. I will spend the night we we're very fortunate that we have a transformation center which we have beds in, and we can spend the night away from the family, so Saturday night or Friday. Night is my night to go and spend the night away from the family sleep in spend a day for like up until four PM and then I come back, and then he goes and does that when I come back shore. That's the most amazing thing I've ever heard of. It was his idea. It was his idea when I come back. I am so energized I will do anything for the kids whatever and I see my husband is I'm like you can go. You can go so. I want you to connect to something like because I know you feel guilty because I used to travel a lot before the pandemic and everything. You notice how when you come home like they screen. Yes, it is the most amazing feeling Silas will scream at the top of his lungs. Sandra gets the smile on his face. Just Oh okay I won't give back like I. Will Keep You for another twelve hours. How's your another twenty minutes? It will decide do in the transformation center when you're alone. You just sit in your underwear or Or I do so. He comes home on said we actually spend the night together on Friday night. It's like date night. His parents well. Yes, the boys overnight, but then I'll leave after we work out in the morning so that I go and I keep the boys all day, and then he comes home, but when I'm here, actually sleep out the casino, which is which is kind of like the little our house, if you will now the mother-in-law, the mother-in-law sweet, and it's like cozy and Nice as bunk beds. And I challenged myself to stay in bed for twelve hours saw are getting better like nine thirty ten o'clock pm out the washing effort of listen to podcasts, or whatever and I, and I put a little timer, and I cannot, unless I have to go to the restroom obvious. I say in the BEFFA twelve hours and I usually do like a sixteen eighteen our fast. You know just kind of reset my body, but I'm in my underwear. That was the point. Sometimes nothing. As delightful as are better than us on many many me, how do we get a transformation? You don't need a transmission of my friends in the UK she and her husband. She said to me she was like. We can never know you never do that. And they just started doing it two weeks ago. Where one of them will wake up and they would take care of the kids. Stay in. A room could go to the coffee shop. Coffee Shop because you can't go anywhere, but she said that it's glorious, but people don't think to do that like I'd rather us be stressed in both of us so the Cadillac the the reason why I think we're doing. It is because one after we had our kids. The first four months were ultimate. Hell like it was as everyone knows no sleeping, no looking at your spouse so focused on the kid and we got into a ton of fights and I've always said. That there was a time when because I was the one that pushed us through the five year journey to have kids. I was like I truly feel. I have ruined my relationship with my husband like I was authentic like there was after one fight. I'm sitting in the closet. balling and I'm like. What did I do like? Why did I do this? And it was maybe a week later or something? He came to me and he's like we'll i. we hired help because we were able to, and they were. Amazing these people love them along with her parents. And then he was like we're going to date night and I was like I. Don't want him to go on a date night like it's not. We don't need to I'm fine. Whatever the minute I took a shower and put clothes on I was a whole new person, and I remember sitting at the restaurant having a drink and I was like this is one of the best days of my life Oh. Yeah, because you've been in the trenches, the S. and I realized then that you need to reenergize or Sean says we were looking down instead of looking at each other and. If you don't take your this then can't take care of the kids to interesting. You say that because we talked to. We call her Lisa the therapist. We had her on a couple of seasons ago and we. She's like our resident therapists that we call in for things. And she recently just told us because we did this pandemic facebook live where we talk. Talk about how you're dealing. And she recently told us to do just what you're saying. She said scheduled time just for you. I was like Oh. Yeah, that's amazing. We're going to do that. I'm GonNa take this whole half of the day or maybe I'll take a day. I I said I was going to do all that did I. do it now so? Good for you guys for doing it. It's hard. You know for me when we first had the boys. They were nick you for three weeks and then we got home like our. Our plans were completely ruined. We had like six weeks of planned out there. We're going to travel and visit. Friends in came a completely ruined big. Eight weeks early. So we had we had them. We came home, but then I have my book tour. Yeah, soon after so I was able to travel I was sleeping in a hotel like a new like to be able to see before night work. Speaking became nothing because I'm actually getting sleep. That's what I said to him I was like we and he's the kind of person he's. Got This I got this I got this I got this. I got this and I'm like. You have to literally experience where there's another side like insult redid that it was it was. Round. It's hard to do that because of the guilt like for me. It's guilt like I. Feel bad putting both my kids on my wife, which is ridiculous because they're her mom, too, and she is the same way we have so much guilt. People Spend I. Don't know you get that week. The report on your iphone that says how much time you spend on it or on the internet or on your social media. If you took ten minutes or twenty minutes a day, instead of going on your phone or doing something for yourself, you realize you could actually make time for yourself, yeah. That's a good point. okay, everyone. We have a new podcast to tell you all about Oh. Yes and this one. I'm really excited about It's called kids these days in. It's a new podcast hosted by teens about teens. Come on. Offers an altered look at teenage life what they're thinking about laughing about which is usually probably us and stressing about kids I mean maxine minutes away from being a teenager, so I am so excited to get started on this one. Yeah, you need to listen to this and on this podcast they cover everything. Listen to this from first kisses to vaping to coming out as queer team to life at home during the coronavirus I mean they're not holding anything back. We're finally going to get to here. Teenagers share things. Could you just generating okay, so everybody. You have to check out kids these days. It's a new limited run podcast from Community High School in Ann Arbor in Michigan Radio's peabody award winning team. Check that out check it out. You'RE GONNA WANNA head over to apple podcasts, spotify or wherever you get your podcast and subscribe now two kids these days. Yeah I need insight before my daughter gets there so i. know what's happening. You really do and then you have to warn me on. Honestly before we get into how you made your family I wanted to talk a little bit about your. Both in the fitness industry and you're gay, which is I feel like it's rare when I found out shanty I've known you since hip hop APPs. I've been where I have been with you, my friend. Why didn't know you were gay? And then when I found out? You're gay. I was like. because. I was even a personal trainer for a little while. and. So like it's such a straight guy world. So what's it like being in the fitness industry in meeting each other and coming out? How did that all go down in? And hopefully we can relay that into. It's interesting. You say that because my experience being in the fitness industry was the exact opposite I, learnt even group exercise so like my entire world was Richard Simmons man then I mean there was billy blanks, too, but you know. I was inspired by Richard Simmons, and then I started going to group fitness conventions and and group fitness. A lot of the guys that are on the stage are gay am when you walk in there, but gay instructors industry fitness instructors. As, fitness is a completely different group. Fitness is a completely different type of family, Rebecca and now completely different. Everybody loves everybody really but VIN. Lesbians there who you did not like these you know when I grew up, it was like a lesbian look like this just like gay people. And so you had this knicks of people, and then all of a sudden you like. Oh, she has a girlfriend and Oh, he looks like a hardcore buffers. Trainer Buddies Guy so for me I never. Once I came out to my family. I was like I'll need to be out I. Mean I. Don't need to be in anymore, so you know there was this thing happen where when we got married, and now we can talk about how he met, but when we got married. People like Shanti comes out via twitter I'm like. What might even so Valeri. GAWKER DOT COM in like of whatever they. Went crazy shanties gay I'm like. Men than you. Anyway! I Ben gave this whole time by. A whole time so. But anyway, but Scott was more. He wasn't in the fitness industry. He was a professional athlete. Model and then he was in the business, but that he had a completely different experience like my I was like I. Mean obviously I got teasing. I was younger, but as I got older I'm like just because I'm getting me. You can beat me up, so my come with it like I'm here for and I grew up in the hood so I was always ready. You know so me and Scott we're re to. He talks a lot about how we got. Our really impacted him and I'm like I. Don't care what people think about like. I mean I did. But I was in a place where I was so supported, and my industry was very supportive, and my industry was the fifth Asus of that like it was. You are not supposed to show any sort of weakness. You are all of these stereotypes for a an athlete and then a collegiate athlete, and then a professional athlete. It was just. So. That's why I spent a lot of time in my head as I said earlier. Yeah, so let's transition and talk a little bit about how you because you guys had eight journey to make your family. Let's talk about when you decided. You wanted to have kids and in how you were GonNa make your traces of how you're going to go about it so picture Sisley nineteen twenty, we were. I knew. It was two thousand ten. We were both in relationships with other people. We were on a gay hookup site because we weren't happy in our relationships, and we found each other caveat, though because I actually had talked to the person I was very true. I'm not interested anymore and he was on. Hold onto it so and my. Same Okay I'm. Your honesty circle right near week 'cause I know what's GonNa. Hear this for us. Talking stick. Yeah, so my relationship was. I was in a relationship for six or seven years or so, and I was not happy and I thought well. My parents have been together for fifty years, so I guess this is what I'm supposed to do. And just not be happy and I knew my ex was messing around and I confronted him about it, and he continued. Continued to do it and I said well I'm GONNA show him and I'm Lucky I. Did because if I didn't? I wouldn't have found him so amazing. We've had two thousand ten on October, twelfth, two thousand ten got married on October Twelfth Two Thousand Twelve T. or you've got made on the same day you met. Yes, so did my wife and I did, too. On accident that we didn't realize it in a print pointed. So then. Hurricane Sandy came through New York I, think was Sandy, right two thousand twelve. Yes. So we were forced out of our apartment a little bit because we were living in Manhattan we Rosewood Island I think at the time and he went to his friend's house in Jersey and her and her partner had kids via. Fertility and we were speaking and they gave us the name of their doctor and Sean send an email and by January of twenty thirteen. Our journey started. Yeah, so your hackers with a Dr one of them carry the first kid other one carried a set of twins, so had three when we went to visit them, so we started with Dr. I remember the meeting January of twenty thirteen, because the reason why I remember it is because we went in thinking okay, this is going to be easy like one. One and done two times and Dan. You know we're GONNA. Go do our thing. They're going to put it in another cup. They're going to make things and then everything's GonNa be easy. Wham Bam. Thank you Ma'am as we're about to leave the conversation. The doctor says so. I just want to warn you that there are some families who go through a struggle to have kids you may, while you have this picture of what you want for your family, you may have to alter it or open your mind to things. Because it may not work and I remember thinking. This guy is crazy like there is no way in hell that this is going to be us because we're healthy guys. We have healthy sperm. We had a firm checked. It was like. The woman at the time that we had as our donor was healthy H., she was in fitness and it was like grit. Here we go. In, that did not happen. I guess the egg donor that you had that was in fitness. Did you use a service or did you was at someone you knew all of our donors? We went. We use a service. I was in fitness and then after that reading care, we would just like being able to do so six dollars five series later. Doctors two doctors five years. Lots of lots of money. Yeah, lots of money, but you know it was interesting. Just because you brought up the fitness thing. There was the final time that we couldn't find egg donor and I said to him. We had just gone into a huge fight. Terrible because the the motion of all that pressure so crazy like we know that heterosexual couples have to deal with the actual of. And producing a kid on their own where same sex couples a Lotta Times, it's like you have zero control right. Control and you're still trying to blame yourself, or is this person's fall so like both same sex and heterosexual couples I mean there's a similar thing is happening, which is the stress is really can take over the relationship when you're trying to have a baby. However, so that's how we got into this huge fight us as I'm finding our donor today I was like I'm putting my six cents. Energy had my positive. And I sat down on the couch and within I remember. I was sitting at the table. You're on the couch you like here's here's she is. This is the one. She's the one. 'cause I've read her bio on the egg donor website and It said Hi. My name is X. and then when she started her to write up her profile, she said my name is x and Y, actually not why her name is why she actually gave her real name in the right up and I was like this person's honest. It just something about it. I was like this her alias, but she still can not say her. She had to say who she really was. And I just thought that was so powerful, anyway happened to be without obviously giving away, she's literally like a mixture of me and Scott in personality. In look, it was just crazy, and I just felt it was right after we had changed our second doctor, we went. We donated more sperm in the inspiration. So, we had a surrogate that was in Texas and she. She didn't get pregnant, third or fourth trial with us, and it was really tough, because we love her still really close to her to this day. Now Mind you. She was the super bowl of surrogates right. She had had eight kids, or so via surrogate as surrogates, so it was like the over over ten people were going against the eight zero person, and it was like who's going to win. And unfortunately we won a yeah. Yeah, she wasn't able to have art kids, and so did you make the decision to break it off or is it? To be very hard conversation I would assume everything every single one see. You had to pick your first Egged on her. That took a lot that was hard very hard, and you use an agency for that and you news the same agency to pick your surrogate. No, no, the doctor had a surrogate. She was new and wanted to work with doctor our DR so. So then we started with her. We tried twice with her two unsuccessful times horrible. BREAK UP! You know it's like a speed dating on crack and then as anyone else who wants to have kids? It is emotional, not only because of the drug. They're putting it on the body, but because this surrogates goal thinks my goal is to help, you have a kid and if that doesn't happen. She thinks it's her fault or we are fault, so and then you know. We started telling everyone that we were trying and our first attempt. When we told everyone we try first attempt failed. Where like we are never telling anyone again because it was. The second time. Yeah, well, she got a positive pregnancy test. So the second time you know, we were so excited and be that connor friends like all. She had a positive pregnancy test and then two days later. It. It out, but On your first try. How many embryos did you get? Do Remember Okay So. Here we go our very first egg donor the very first egg-donation that she gave. Eighty one eggs, well my God. One Stop, it called the phone and then our second Asian. Seventy five or something? What's all and you're always trying to? Both of you? Fertilize eggs right every time. Yeah, so you're always trying to get twins or trying for the best possible odds pass right. So, you had any of your surrogates, you said ahead of time like we're hoping for twins we're doing to. China twins and our second surrogate was our in law, so it was a little easier. I mean the funny story is an asset. The Scott One day I said. because. We didn't have a surrogate and I said. You know. I should ask the coal and she had my brother's wife, and and they're not together anymore. Fine, not a big drama deal, but you know it's not texting my brother. Can you have our kids? Can you text and he's like and so we're. We're driving to a restaurant. I think the smash were actually we were? We need a burger and my brother takes. He's like. Of course. You would ask me something like that over. And then he was like. Of course we will do it just like that. It was like a no questions asked. This was in within minutes. You're like. Wow, our. Have Kids. Had cared, they could do it. You didn't want any work is fine. You know they have one older one younger. Wouldn't have been through an agency that would have just been like you. Just they're going to go forward out. That was her. Yeah, and we couldn't pay her. So because of the state she lives in New Jersey, so you can't pay a surrogate and she really. They really wanted to do it. Just out of love, and so she actually got pregnant on the first. Try and You were super excited like. We went through the whole like. I don't like the way this taste. I don't like the way that smells like. She went through the whole thing and then I guess we went to check to see if there was a heartbeat and no, she actually started bleeding. She started bleeding. She went to the hospital. And you know they torture miscarriage I was traveling Scott had to meet her in. New York City I flew to Philly too, so we could ride the train together because it was her and her son and her her, his brother had to stay, so we drove up to New, York, a wind up on the train together so she could have the procedure to remove the DNC. Yeah. Forever after that you're. You'RE NOT GONNA. Make her do it again after that because it's like you're in this horrible most. She was like I'm doing this again. Very Larry. She did it. She tried six times. She tries to so five more times after that she was like. Let's do this. Let's do this and then after the six tried. They still wanted to go, but we're like the doctor saying that it something is not working says something has to change. It's a science I know this guy. I look at it scientifically. If something's not working, you have to change the formula in one way, right? That's what he said. Here's the crazy thing. Jamie, two thousand sixteen retry her. She didn't. It didn't progress any further. And then, so we met another surrogate Blah Blah. A month and a half later, Nicole caused us in like I'm pregnant. Who What? This is your sister? In Law? My sister-in-law, her brother has ex and he pulled out. So she found way, she found out a month and a half later, but didn't no, no, no, no, she got pregnant a month and Raider, but didn't find out until may because she was like. I'm not pregnant. They have been reset them on a vacation. Go to drink and have fun and and get your drink and have fun drink to have fun and came to my birthday in May like we were like phone. Backman Moses like it was the last supper like the whole nine two weeks after my birthday our birthday, she was like y'all never gas. I think fourteen weeks pregnant or something Oh. My God that had to be so hard for. For her to tell you, it was very tough I. was I was I was forcing the math I was like. Are you sure it's not ours went to her doctor? She was like yeah. Are you sure this is not the guys and she was like? It's impossible well. God that's horrible. I would have had that same thought, too. I would have been like insure. That's not my baby. I know it was TA. Hey Jamie. You know that we get asked by a lot of listeners what they can do to get prepared to make an lgbtq baby. Yes, and we usually tell them right. They gotta start by seeing infertility doctor to make sure everything is in working order downstairs truth we do we do, but now we also know of a way to get important fertility insight without going to the doctor or even leaving home which I know I love I love that yeah, modern fertility makes that possible with easy at home for Tilleke hormone testing all my God, this is. Is really great, because traditional testing with your doctor can cost over a thousand bucks. That's listen to this modern fertility, only cost one hundred and fifty nine dollars to get the same information, so and Oh, by the way, if you have an HSA or an essay, you can use those dollars on modern fertility, and if you go to modern fertility dot, com slash ot. Get Twenty bucks off your test, so you're saving saving saving. It's so good. It's like savings on top of savings. I know and it is. It's super easy. All you have to do is. Is You give yourself a simple finger prick, and you mail it in with the prepaid label, and you'll get your personalized results within ten days, and this is what you're going to get. You're going to get insight into how many eggs you have, which is important to know so import hormone levels any reproductive red flags. You might have which you're definitely going to want to know. And the results go in depth into what every hormone means, and you can also. If you have questions, you can talk one on one with a fertility nurse to review your results. Results and options for your next steps, so it's basically like going to the doctor and you never have to leave your house Jamie on. That's a win in my book. I notice a notice, and like Robinson model fertility is offering our listeners twenty dollars off the test. When you go to modern fertility dot com slash t that means you're test will cost one hundred and thirty nine dollars, instead of the hundreds or thousands. It costs at a doctor's office. That's right. Get Twenty bucks off your fertility test when you go to modern fertility dot com slash. MODERN FERTILITY DOT COM slash, O., C., T. check your checks those aches. Are you still using the same first batch of embryos or your onto new ones now? Donor number four. Maybe all my. I do know that that donors that we hit us after the first. R. Fertility Clinic was really helping us. They had women had success had women in the databank in their personal database, so we were. At this point, we didn't really care so much. We weren't trying to like. Find like you know attached batch dot com fashion. We were just audits persons greatest. She has a great family. She has a education or she's an athlete or whatever we wanted to be. A good person, good family history anyway, but it just it just wasn't working. Yeah, just you know strike after strike after strike. And then we got our third surrogates. She was the Super Bowl woman, and it didn't happen, and then I we asked another one of our friends to do. This was surrogate number four She flew and got all the tests done. We found out that she couldn't have her line and been graphic. Enough. Right? Remember you know so we we. We had switched doctors by then and now our doctor was in Fort Worth and I remember the woman calling me. We were in Miami. Sean. I had a huge fight that morning and sounds like refighting. Nobody was. Under pressure. Of dealing with this and Sean was out playing tennis and I got the phone call from the doctor's office and she said Unfortunately, your surrogate is not going to be able to circuit. And she said what are you GonNa do I said. I have no clue. We are at around zero. We are four years past we are hundreds of thousands of dollars later. I. Don't even know I had every owes at that time and I was like I. Have No idea. I have no idea what we're GONNA do and she said I wanNA be your surrogate. And I was like what? I said we you want. What do you know what you're offering? And she said yeah, absolutely do because I wanted to be a surrogate for a while. My husband has always said No. I read your file. I don't. She didn't know who Sean was. She said I, I registered and I. Just feel the need to help you and I can and I literally. I couldn't speak I was like well. I Have Sean. Let me ask you. Do you know this is the second time that we've had a gay men? We have one of their story. This Guy David the fifty year old, millennial, and he like six different surrogates, and the very last person who helped him. Was the woman working at the clinic. Just like your story. But. It's like so shocking that these people exist in that they're just like on the phone with you and like I'm GonNa. Do It for you. It's incredible, and so this is the one that worked. One, so we were on the tennis courts because we love playing tennis and I got the phone call from Ashley. She's like hey guys. Actually, how are you? She's like. I'm super pregnant. And we like what we have office people around. Gun Shy at this point. That was trying number twelve years. We're not telling anybody bodies on a plane back on, and she sends a photo with two little. Hole Hillel Egg because she works at the clinic wreck, so she can go in and check all the time. She was setting ultrasounds all the time. It was love her. Lunch break. Everything even to their bones started to form. They should run in there and bay down like take video fours with their fallen. She's like doing all of it was. It was eight years one of the, but she knew that we were i. mean we had such a stressful journey that. I think in her mind. She wanted to kind of keep his emotionally stable. The best and we're still. We still talk to her she. Always She's Oh. I I think it's really interesting that you guys talk about the fact that you know. The each of you were a donor or I. don't know bio data. Don't even know what the right term. What because most of the men that we've talked to especially when it's security, they say they're they don't tell people whose the data. WHO's not so I think it's interesting you talk about it with our kids are twins in general in the open everyone we've interviewed. We'll talk about that like they won't say. Rule is the yes I mean. I have seen our kids. Him What is me like? There is no getting around that elephant in the room. If you were and we are so honest with ourselves and with everyone, it's like yeah, we put in one of each. Even though people always ask the question, we're like one is his. Mind well, I don't say one is his mind. I mean say our kids. If you hang out with us, you, you wouldn't be able to tell that. We favor one over the other. Yeah, sure. But I think that's what people afraid afraid. Like Oh, this is the one you made. It is the one I may I'm like Sander looks exactly. Like There's nothing I can't. Even I wouldn't be able to deny if I wanted. Pressure off and a lot of ways because it's like with us, like as two women were outed because you know, but people feel very comfortable, asking us like who had the baby, but it seems to be more invasive to ask who donated for men for some reason. I. Just think it's a big. It's curious why I think a lot of people fascinated with the fact that you can have two eggs ever fertilized by two people, and then you put those embryos into another person. And that person can birth to kids that have two different DADS. Think they just a lot of people will just can't wrap their heads around the site. Yeah, but you know Robin. I are the same we're. We're open books about how our children recreated and Robin Kerry both her and her wife's two children and I carried one in my wife carried our other and I. Do find that people come up to me like my best friends believe in say when I'm complaining about one of the kids. They'll even say like well. Meaning people will say Oh, well while he's yours, so that makes sense and I like no. No because people come in with these preconceived notions, and they keep it in their heads, so I think that's why some people keep it to themselves so that other people can't have these judgments about who's going to be the bigger parent to which kid which is all just ridiculous Just they don't know any different, though you know what I mean, it's like this is a whole new world for a lot of people I mean that's part of the reason. We like to talk about this stuff up until I don't know how many years ago people were only having kids having sex with each other right so. I mean there's really archaic dinosaurs of them. I mean who does it that way anymore? So you know there was no like you said there was never the conversation, and so now people are learning more about the other stuff. Yup, though scientists, amazing is an amazing I love so much speaking of science. It's like you guys had that tough, tough, tough tough journey, and it didn't even end there. Your your kids were weren't really premature right? Yeah, yes, they were born seven and a half reese early I was sitting home one day and Ashley Texted me in the morning and was like where she had been texting the last couple of days in the night. I kind of took over that area of the journey I would. I would become. You know her husband if you will. The your kids. You could be over here in the middle of the. I know back was hurting and she was sleeping and I've recliner chair. She was very uncomfortable one morning She texted me. She's like I. Feel like bad and she went to work and her boss. Obviously, they were fertility clinics. Our bosses like you need to go to the hospital. Their fertility clinic is right across the street from the hospital, so her friend puts her in a an office chair and And wheels her to the emergency room. Right It pretty funny, so she called me and actually put me on a phone with her co worker, and she said I really believe that she's an labor. Ashes was like no. I got this like I'm going to hold out. She sees in this thing and then later that day I was taking a nap and she called me and she was like. I think I got this. Can you put the nurse on the phone in a nurses? These babies communist weekend, so we hung up and I didn't do anything yet, but then Ashley Call Back and she was like. Yeah, we need to you. Guys should get to Dallas so Scott was driving and I knew he was driving. Like I'm a wait till we get home. I'm GonNa tell them this is the car he walked out and I was like our kids coming tonight, and that was at four thirty and we seven thirty flights. It was eight thirty five because they were born at eight eleven. Okay so. Broad. Oh yeah, yeah, anyway, so we're. Runs next door to his pants. Do you want to go on? Yes, and then be everyone's like packing a small little Duffel bag were in a car to the airport. Ashley are surrogate. Her husband Michael is calling us on the phone. Like guys like you're not gonNA make it. She was like they were like they're about to. Take her into the romantic c-section section. We'll try to hold onto. You get to the airport, so we get to the airport. Our flight is at eight, thirty or whatever. Call me facetime me as soon as you know they take your in and things are about to have so we just get through security, and they face ibox and eight just always down. We're like around our phone my phone. Like oh my Gosh! Watching this thing happening there I one. Oh my God. There's the second one you're. Just like in an airport airport. And then here's the thing and I'll never stopped being annoyed about this so him I said listen. Pack. One bag major. Your bags can go on the airplane, and of course one of them pack bags. Under sitting, we get off the plane. You know when you want to see your for your kids for the first time. We got to wait at the at baggage claim and I was. So Mad Y'all surprise you president, leave them there. I'm still mad about it anyway, so we? Course we I mean it's fine. We get to we. You know we are getting a car. We get hospital and we thought it was really important for us to see Ashley. I, even like super excited to see our kids. They wouldn't let her hold babies right because that cowardice how it is so we made sure we stop to see her first right because we just want to be like. We're going straight to the kids in like thanks, so see her she. She was like so cool. Mom came back with us and film does like see our boys for the first time, so it was kind of like that we had that connection I was very cool. And then you know they weren't a knick. You actually came to see them actually at travel for work. One day and Ashley have gotten better over the course of like a week and she went to the hotel. Let him sleep and she took care of the twins. Got She so amazing. This lady of Ashley, and then they brought. She brought her whole family up there. The kids, not the boys held them and. It still to this day like we're like. They're extended family like they get it. They know they helped family. And it was, and what I thought was really amazing, especially, because in times of. The separation of divide in our country. We had these kids in Texas, which is a predominantly red state I believe. Her kids. She told me she was like. My kids never thought it was weird that it was two guys and she was like I was really happy that. She was happy to her, and her husband never made it a big deal that it was like I'm having. We're having these kids for these guys. She's like we're having these. We're having these kids for these two people Are you closer with the surrogate or the egg donor? We've never met. Their donor comes lean animus in the contract like there has to be something she. Approves the children to be able to contact her. After eighteen years after eighteen years old, so I think that she's okay with that. have to check it. You know I know who she is. Hasn't known who we are. Oh. That's interesting because you see your stealth like that and you faded. Dealth Very. I was like you're not reason Mahdi's profile unlike. That person and she is like the bomb I don't know it'd be quarter meter. One Yeah I love to. That's just like sperm donors to. That's what we have. When cast turn eighteen they're. They're allowed to contact them. Movie. The movie where the kids found the. Kids are all right, OH, my Gosh! We don't want that though that broke up the marriage. Then, movie was just it was really interesting movie. Even thought about having kids like that, and that's why we have this podcast. Because there are so many factors that go into making our families, there are two stories that are the same, not a single one and we have over. We have four seasons so far and not a single one has really been the same at all Jamie Lee five seasons five seasons I was. GonNa say over four. Don't get it to people here for five seasons. Okay, all right, go back and listen to all the episodes. Thank you Sean Sean. T said. I love it I. Love it yet, and they're not the same. They're not the same, so it's really important that we tell our stories. Sean was asked by. We were very fortunate to be on the cover. Parents magazine and our family as I think we were the first gay couple ever. And because of the response, they came to us and ask Sean to be a co host with Julia Denison. Who is the executive director of parents DOT COM, and they have bonded and been able to put together a podcast called. We are family, and you can tell about just some blow I think it's really amazing an interesting. is about all different types of families, but also all different types of people that were put into families like from foster children, all the way to families where parents had to raise trans kids in the coming out at different times, and then celebrities kind of tell their stories of parenthood, and just kind of like blended type of families. It's really cool and the thing I love honestly the thing that I love most about it is that they're so progressive and LGBTQ friendly like they've really want everyone. To feel, welcomes on our podcast and again just parents magazine I love the magazine. I, love their social media this thing that we talked about on a podcast a lot, which is because we talk about raising families, and there's no right or wrong way to raise your family because behind closed doors, we all have a different way and in the world of social media. There's this there's this. Idea that you have to be perfect and please everyone on the podcast we make. We make a point like hey. Everyone grows up differently behind closed doors. Everyone has different types of communication, and so we really explore all different types of families from. The parents children the the couples. We talked surrogate, really really amazing. That's awesome. I think everybody needs to go listen. We are family and it's on podcast platforms I. believe correct. And if we can also put in a small for his own personal podcast, please to trust and believe with Sean T. that's my podcast every week. I do an interview with someone of all different walks of life like any kind of person, every kind of person actually just interview my very first Trans Person. This guy is amazing and incredible interview Robin Roberts. She's wonderful and then on Fridays are also do when I like. Like to call my Solo. So's where I'm just motivating people to learn how to trust and believe and who they are whether it be their workouts, families, relationships, or just their own personal journeys. I love that. I mean I already. Have you in my ear consistently? Especially during this pandemic? The can't go to the gym, so it's Mia, shanty is me and Shante every day. You're motivating me and you're good. Motivator, my friends. And God love scared. If you look outside and Jamie standing outside of your window waving, just don't be scared. We're going to. You got to work out DVD. I'm ready to dig. Do Dig in deep I'm going sweat where you. Know will be outside that window doing burke's. I'm fine with that I'm fine with that. You going to the line. That's already out there for power. A just glad I'm glad that you guys didn't give up. Because you seem like absolutely amazing guys who would make absolutely amazing dad's and it would have been complete shame if you had quit at any point in time so I'm glad that Scotty be kept the train move in and and CIANCI kept the positivity flowing and took the late night calls. Because now you've got to amazing kids. Proposed a lot about our family of social media, I wanted TV show. Doesn't let's go. We wanted. To to the same call to sack, and we're GONNA know. We're GONNA live in the transformation center. That's fine. would be something. And you guys already have a staff a team, so they'll take our kids. This is. Great, this. Voting Nation. How about that well? Thank you guys so much for sharing your story I. Just it's amazing. I'm so you shared it with us. We love you ladies when we can hang out, we should be. Yes where are you guys in Phoenix Oh. Actually go there I'm coming I'm coming I'M GONNA, do my power jumps were jumping in an RV with his mom and dad, and all of us, and we're heading to Seattle, because it's getting hot here. His parents do watch the boys like this. He and everything's getting crazy, but we're GONNA. JUMP RV and travel to Seattle. Him Follow Sean on social it's. Ashanti I'm sure he's GonNa put something together, and you're going to see I'll put it on my youtube channel. It I'm sure it's going to be crazy. How old are they two and a half? That's my kids to. We had our son's at the same time. Two and a half and I can't imagine RV with him right? With Grandparents. Everything, like the runaround. I'm like Oh. Yeah, we're GONNA have to literally stop every hour couple hours. Go find a place for. Well! We're going to check that is. You. So much. Sean. A love him, and he and Scotty got Are just they're so wonderful? And you know what that journey? That I thought I had a hard journey that journey and a half to make those you know what I loved is. How like Scott would be starting to say something was maybe a little hard himself and then Sean. T would be like I'M GONNA. Stop you right now, and I want to acknowledge you for. It was just like they were so cute. How they talk! We transformation center. We gotta take that time. We gotta get a transformation. We one of those I don't think so I. DO I WanNa highlight one thing that really resonated with me with this episode. Because you guys might not. You didn't hear it in the episode because it probably got cut out because that happens a lot, but. Sometimes we just don't stop talking. Yeah, sometimes the boys and I realized that we went to the same fertility doctor, the first doctor we each used and throughout their journey, this particular doctor, which he said the same exact thing to me throughout my journey, when I had a hard time getting pregnant, he kept saying I look at this as a scientific formula, and if something's not right, you have to change one piece of the formula and we kept changing things in the science of. Of it and they just like me. Finally in the end ended up switching doctors, which is kind of ironic. That's the thing we're going to change his. We both ended up switching doctors and for me. I feel like that's really. What was the major thing that that changed things for me and I finally got pregnant shortly after changing doctors, and they got pregnant on the second doctor, too. So I just think that it's just really important to highlight that and for everybody like. If it's not working. If you're struggling and you're trying to figure out what else you can do to change things. That's always an option, and that's sometimes even the hardest option to take because you feel like you owe this doctor so much, but you don't and they don't take it personal i. don't think I. Never really talked to him about it. Who Cares you? Go back to see right so, but you know I think it's just a good reminder to listen. Listen to your gut yet. That's what I was gonNA. Say Trust your instinct. My instinct was telling me this. This wasn't the right doctor like pretty early on, but I stuck with him because he had gotten my wife pregnant and our daughter was made from him so but I should've trust. My instinct way earlier than I did so I just want to highlight that? It's just interesting that they went through the same thing. so I want to say that. Okay I'm glad. Let me just get off my soapbox now. You step down down, okay? Don't forget guys that you can pre-order book. Just the kindle version right now, and you can pre order that on Amazon, but it is out. In all forms in all most major retailers September twenty seconds to be on the lookout for that bad. September twenty second you should all I'm just GonNa be here before you know. Be Ready to to buy that book like just be registered under Calvin market on your calendar, and then like support us on the social and be like. Did you buy book? In now we're asking for too much. We always do we always just just tell him yelling at us. Just take just like the cigarette. How late it we also have to talk about. We've been starting some partnerships to offer our listeners discounts, and our first partnership is with Mira. They make a fabulous ovulation and fertility tracker, and you can get twenty five bucks off the starter kit, so you just have to go to over his talk dot Com to get that discount. You'll see their go check. Check it out, and let's keep this conversation going. Join US on. The social ovaries. Talk on twitter over his underscore talk on INSTA- whereabouts hit two thousand followers on instagram. Jamie. I don't know if you noticed I'm very excited about that. If these overs could talk on facebook and join our community there, and you can talk to other listeners, and you could join our community on Patriot Patriot Dot com slash talk for bonus content, lastly subscribed to us on Youtube to catch up on overstock live streams. That was really good. Actually you froze missed like the whole middle part, but I think you said we're about two thousand followers on that Watts I did. It's very exciting I go. Follow us, guys. We like followers. Thank you to our sponsors. Modern fertility in the new podcast kids these days for helping to make the show a possibility. We really appreciate y'all. Thank you so much. You guys stay healthy out there. Stay safe. We always say. Don't touch your face. Keep up the fight. I have to say it again. Black Lives Matter Trans. 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419. Language, Art, and Contemporary Romance with Alexis Daria

Smart Podcast, Trashy Books: Reviews, Interviews, and Discussion About All the Romance Novels You Love to Read

1:02:55 hr | 5 months ago

419. Language, Art, and Contemporary Romance with Alexis Daria

"Good Day to you. It is another chaotic day on the quarantine. My neighbor is having work done both animals with loud voices are in my office and I am attempting for the sixth time to record this intro. So I have decided that this will be the one whether there's noise or not welcome to smart podcast trashy books episode number four, hundred and. Nineteen my guest today is award-winning author Alexis Doria and we talk about a little of everything including graphic design art typography languages, Writing Planning journaling, and of course, her new book you had me at Ola. We also talk about how writing Contemporary Romance is changing given well, the chaotic contemporary landscape of the Greater, universe? Not just my street with work and mammals talking. I really enjoyed this conversation and I hope that you also enjoy it as well. I will have links where you can find Alexis Doria and all of her books in the shots at smart bitches trashy books, dot com slash podcast. I have compliments for this episode, which makes me so happy to Caroline Age. There are historical books filled with cocktail and mixed beverage recipes dating back hundreds of years, and in every single one, there is a sparkling drink named after you. And to Kate K., you are better than a Baker's dozen of giant perfect donuts with is and sprinkles and that really really good filling. That is perfect at any time you know all your favorite ones. I want to say a special hello to the Patriot community, and if you would complement of your very own head over to Patriot dot com slash smart bitches the Patriot community helps keep the show going monthly pledge support groups and constant upgrades to the podcast infrastructure, and they also helped me develop questions interviews like this one. So if you would like to join, it would be awesome. If you did have a look at Patriot dot com slash smart pitches. Today show is brought to you in part by native deodorant. I believe reading labels is very important. I do it all the time especially because I have very sensitive skin and I've been using native for a few weeks. Now it's terrific. Native Deodorant is formulated without aluminum parabens or talk, and it won't clog sweat glands, which is a big problem for me. It's also Vegan and it's never tested on animals and it works I have been using the coconut vanilla scent but I was also sent a sample of cucumber mint which has now disappeared and into my husband's toiletry cabinet i. mean it's Great. He loves it but it's not mine anymore. You. Can try native risk free free shipping on every order and native offers thirty day free returns and exchanges in the US. Do what I did make the switch to native today by going to native do dot com slash trashy books or use Promo Code trashy books and get twenty percents off your first order. That's Native D. E. Dot. com slash trashy books or use Promo Code trashy books at checkout for twenty percent off your first order. Not, only is their heavy equipment outside my house right now but the cat has decided that now is the time to eat loudly the very heavy background noise intro and I apologize for that, I, hope that it's not super annoying or distracting or I hope you're enjoying all the chaos that I'm you know chilling here through? This episode is also brought to you by ritual a daily Multivitamin obsessively researched for women. It is vegan friendly, sugar-free, non GMO gluten free Allergen free and all of the sources are provided for you to read and research on your own we deserve to know but we're putting in our bodies and why and rituals founder is on a mission to reinvent the vitamin. Industry ritual is also designed to be an easy way to build daily ritual. Get it. I like that it is easy that the minute I finish bottle I get a new one I don't have to remember anything and I really liked it i. know what's inside each capsule and why it's there. Apparently. So does my cat best of all never makes me nauseated they lead changes lead to big results. So start small today ritual is offering you ten percent off your first three months. You can try it out satisfaction guaranteed go to ritual dot com forward slash Sarah that's a r a h to start your ritual today. That's ten percent off your first three months at ritual dot com. Slash Sarah. As I mentioned earlier, I will have links to everything. We talk about including some of the amazing artists we discuss and the planning system that Alexis uses in the show notes at smart trashy books, dot com slash podcast. But now let's do this interview on with my conversation with Alexis Doria. I am Alexa starry and I am a contemporary romance writer living in New York City. My most recent release is you had mitt. Olah, which is a story about. Two actors falling in love on the set of E. Bilingual remake. Of Dylan. And I made up. I. Imagine Making up. The TELENOVELA was extremely fun Oh superfund. Congratulations thank you. Does it feel like you've been waiting forever for this book to come out. Oh my gosh it really does serve. Especially because we ended up moving the release out another month Once we got the target diverse book club Pick News. CONGRATS on that. Thank you. That was really cool and I, actually it was glad for the extra month at that point because it allowed me to do some other things lake, the preorder web tune and stuff like that but. It just reached this point where it Kinda felt. It was never gonNA come out or I just had so much time. So even a week out I was like you have a week it's so long. From now and then I think the weekend before I was like, Oh my God. I. Don't have any time and I still have so many things to do. When you got the news about the target diverse book club pick was that like put your head between your knees moment. Well. I didn't really know what it meant. So they're a bunch of things in this process where they're like great news this is happening and I'm like, cool. What does that mean? So. This was kind of another one of those things you know it was kind of aware of it So my editor explained it to me she kinda she called me that morning. I was like, can you talk like right away this morning and it was like nine morning and I was like Oh my God. What's happening? And she was like it's good news I promise so. I found out about that, and then it was this whole process of mailing me like boxes and boxes of easily tip-ins to sign a night and she was like I'm sure you know what those are and I was not deal with the. I had to sign all of these pages and develop a signature which was also a process because I hadn't done that yet. These are the things. No. One thinks about when it comes to a book release wait how do I sign my name over and over and over and over again right and I you know. If it's okay. I'll talk a little bit about the signing because I keep meaning to do a twitter thread and haven't done it yet I would love to hear about this. So please talk as much as you want. So my background is in art and Probably every couple of years in some kind of art or design class, they would make us develop a logo or something based on our initials. So I've done that lots of times. And never been happy with the results. So I, don't use them. and when I used to draw, I had certain ways of signing my name on the drawings and stuff like that. But when it came to the books, because my first couple books were e book only. You know I kept thinking I should come up with a way of signing my name and I was like nuts too early. It's too early to be doing that. Yet you know I'm getting ahead of myself and then suddenly you know. I'd like postcards or something and people were saying the postcard and I was like Oh damn it I never. Figured out how I wanted to sign my name. So I just had to do something in the moment, and then I was I felt like I was stuck with that for a little bit but when this came up. I thought okay. I really need something that I can right over and over again consistently, and that isn't gonNA. Kill my hand. So, yes sound with my sketchbook and I just kind of went through the ideation process of just brainstorming and trying things out and testing different things using different kinds of pens And I decided I had do something that was in script so I didn't have to lift the pen. And I wanted to do something that was only going to be my initial. So it would be shorter because otherwise my a handwriting just like deteriorates my name goes on I can barely write a check. Yeah. Like when you write right out the words of how much the check is my hand is like, are you joking right now? Seriously I journal every morning now and you know you've probably Heard of the morning pages from the way she talks about doing three pages. I can only do one because by the end of the page, my hand is just cramping badly I have a traveler's notebook and I draw a little box for each day on one paper. So I have six boxes and I fill in the little box and it's maybe four inches a to Maybe that's a lot. So I really needed something like kind of hold the sharpie loosely and just have it flow and just repeat over and over and over. So I practiced a bunch of times I came up with a bunch of different things and also still wanted it to be kind of close to how I'd have been signing my name before although I had not signed many books before. So I don't think it was that much of an issue but. I finally came up with something and I'm so glad I did that because people would ask me while like does your hand hurt from writing this? And I was like you know it's not even my hand hurting it's the repetitive motion of Lake. Shifting to the left to get the next page, putting it down, writing, and shifting to the right to move to the next stack and that kind of back and forth motion like really hurt was hurting my ribs. To make sure to take breaks. A hand was okay. So when you come came up with your signature, were there things that you wanted to make sure to include like an ago a in a certain way? Yes actually. So my degrees in graphic design and I have very strong opinions about typography and I like a nice sharp a at the top. To as apoe like a triangular kind of right. Kind of. Way Or yeah, totally whereas when I write my name like normally I do a loopy like a script a but for this, I wanted to have like appointee A. So I did try to work on something that had that and doing a deed that did have loop. It's it's weird to try to describe it without pictures, but there are pictures alight. I totally get it I. Once was waiting to pick up a prescription in the before times when you'd go into places in standing among other humans and breathe and the woman behind the counter her name have also been us but I noticed her name tag was handwritten in the A. had this wonderful curving up stroke very sharp top and then The down stroke very straight, and then the cross of the was also a loop going back over but it didn't cross the original loop. Of course, sounds really weird when I describe it in it was gorgeous and I was like I really like your name tag and she's like I practiced that a for five days before I. Let Myself Right by Tech. And I was like I know exactly how you feel I am the same way. So it's nice to know there's more of us out there right? Oh. Yeah I mean that's how I write the A in my author signature now. It's almost like when you draw a star without lifting the pen. Yeah. So it's a little bit like that but then it leads into the D. and then the kind of comes up and loops down and they kind of have a little lake tail at the beginning and end. Yup. So that's what I came up with. I think that's very cool. I think it's I think that that's something where you sort of if you went back to your past self when you were starting writing and be like some day, you're GonNa practice how you write your name because you're going to write your name. Five. THOUSAND, times. Yes. This is my advice for authors out there. Even if you feel silly doing it, you just have no idea if something like this is going to come up and you want to be prepared just practice writing your author signature and make sure it's something that you can repeat with consistency and east. Yes and if you're like me and you use your real name which I don't always advise Make a differentiation between your signature that you put on documents and your signature that you put on books make those a slightly separate designs for be actually right S.. B.. Sarah. Things that I am signing as Sarah anything related to smart bitches interaction with community, and then if there's like a legal thing, obviously I'm not writing us. Documents. But it's a slightly different signature. I can tell the difference now I don't think anyone's going to be like uptake signed piece of postcard and I'm going to forge things. It's not that it's that I need to know that there is a creative separation there. Right yeah. So my name is Alexis. So I I did want to make sure that I wrote it differently than I. Credit Card yeah exactly. So you talked a little bit about having more lead time before the book came out and I was so impressed in it and really curious about your strategy in your plan for promoting this book you had this is twitter countdown which I thought was hilarious and there's a web toon. Can you tell me all about this process how you develop these ideas and what how you decided to do the things you did sure So I actually had a couple of approaches to this where the web tune was a lot more thought earlier in the process and they went down was kind of something I thought of like a week and a half in advance. Regarding the web tune. I haven't illustrated cover for this and I love it. buffing len is the artist who illustrated the cover and he was the only artist. I wanted for this and I'm just so grateful that we were able to get him. For it because. I knew we were going to have an illustrated cover but I said I still want it to look like a romance and I want the Vibe the story to be clear. So I'm just really happy with it. It's still got the clench. It's still sexy and gorgeous but there's also that feeling of representation there. and. You know I think with illustrated covers we have a lot of opportunity there that don't have with using stock photos and I just want to see more. Beautifully, illustrated covers that take advantage of that having that I knew that I wanted to do some kind of preorder campaign an incentive for early buyers because I know that the price point on these books is a little bit higher. So I wanted people who preorder to really feel like they were getting something like really fun and special in addition to ordering early or requesting from the library because we love libraries. So. I had been thinking about doing like a comic or something that may be would mail out partying with a store and then obviously with everything happening I was like, all right. How can I do this digitally? And I talked about it with my agent who is a big Fan of web tunes? Yes. She was like why don't you do it like a web tune where you just kind of like scroll through and look So I read some and I was like Oh, this is perfect format. So I reached out to an artist Maria Dresden who's based in Spain. And I had hired her for a couple of other things in the past and just from seeing her work. I know this is a big project but I think that she will be perfect for it. And I brought it to her and kind of explained everything that I wanted to do and she was totally on board. Now Somewhat naively I thought like, I can just hire an artist and give them the text and then wait And that was not at all how it went. It really was three months of us, collaborating on this where I had to convert this scene into a script, which in and of itself was. Something I had never done before and really was a a different way of thinking about the story. And then she story boarded and then I kind of changed the script based on the story board and she did some research into web tunes to to think about format kind of stylistic choices she could make. She ran those past me and then she would do sketches and I would send her notes on the sketches or You know I would say I think we should have something like this. Do you have any ideas and she would send me some options and then decide so it really was this lake wonderful back and forth and she's just lovely to work with You know I would love to do something like this again with her in the future. And I'm just so thrilled with how it turned out and I hope that I'll everyone who's been able to see it really loves it too. So that was kind of my approach. For. For that and then also a as another artist Mahara Varas who's based in. Portugal And she did a drawing for me if the characters and then I turned that into like a sticker and acrylic charm and I partnered with love sweet Arrow to preorder campaign with them and we were really happy with how that turned out to. But I realized with doing all this stuff with illustrations. It kind of. Put forward a certain idea of the book and as I was getting tagged in early instant bookstore grammar reviews. I've been really good about not going on good reads at all so I haven't been looking. But every. So often I get tagged in one on books to grab. So if I got tagged I would look at it and like the picture. But I notice a lot of people were seeming very surprised by how quote Unquote Steamy? The book is and I was like well, it's just like all of my other books and to slave all other contemporary romances I read but I think because it's getting marketed as a ROM com and has illustrated cover. That may be readers who are maybe newer to romance have a certain idea in mind for what that means, and there's definitely open door sex scenes in this book. So, I wanted to telegraph that this was a sexy book. so that people would not be surprised by that or You know if that's not what they wanted then they would know going in right that's where I came up with the idea for the countdown images 'cause I found this this new photo shoot the hip been added to default deposit photos that could kind of work for the characters. So. I grew up at a time where these kind of like black and white sexy model shots were like how all of fashioned photography was being done, right? Yeah. Right Calvin Klein and all of that in the nineties so. My design aesthetic is a little bit influenced by that. So I said, let me take all of these just make them black and white at some of the texts, the countdown, and do these kind of lakes silly like. You know seductive phrases to go along with it just show. This is a sexier book. So that way people know. So that's why I came from. Was it really exciting to see the images of your characters coming in when you started working with the artist Oh my God it was so amazing. You have this idea of what they look like or sound like and. That that's all in your head, and here it is coming at you in an image form, which is not something that writers necessarily get even with the covers because sometimes it covers her completely different planet from the characters. Yet. No, it was. It was really great You. Know we really I sent her a bunch of pictures of celebrities. You know that I. had said these are the ones I had sent to the cover artist and here's a cover. So she did some sketches to show me what she had in mind for them. with Ashen. My only notes for Lake make his shoulders more broad. and. Then with Jasmine we really kind of worked hard on her outfit like what her shirt was going to look like and what kind of design features it would have. So she kind of has this little tie in the front. You know what kind of jewelry she would be wearing and and stuff like that. So. And just like. She just really nailed it with their expressions and making them look you know really beautiful in in some of the panels and then other is just like really kind of cute and silly. So really striking that balance was it was so. Great every time she sent me an update was like Oh my God I love this so much. That must be the most wonderful feeling like, yes, I get to them. May My critique partner Robin Love It. You know what are the benefits of being my critique partners that you get to see this stuff as it's happening so I would show her updates and She was like you know I think even if no one else saw this, it would be worth it for how happy you are with it and I was like yeah. It would be. An thing. Another doctor about about her art is that there's so much movement in it. Like you, you almost get a sense that you're getting still from a film which works because. This is filming a film based story. So it really really works yet. We worked a lot on that just like certain little things like You know how to get that sense of movement. Yeah. Like five different options and we'd be like, okay. How about how about this one? What are we put this kind of sound effect or this type of action line? And then luckily, I. Did study illustration so. You know we were able to talk about it a little more easily. So with you had me at Ola, what were your favorite parts of this book I? I have some favorite things but I don't want to steal your answer so I will not go I. Can I promise? No spoilers it's it's so. It's so difficult sometimes to do an interview when I've read the book and I really liked it and I don't want anyone to get spoiled. But I also want to convince people that they should read it. This is quite challenging. Yeah. Okay. So no spoilers and I'm very curious to hear your favorite scenes but I'll go first go ahead. So I think my favorite scene in the whole book is the scene with the animals. I can see that. So funny. But I also really enjoyed enjoy I enjoy going back and re reading these parts Jasmine's conversations with her grandmother and her cousin's yeah. Those are really funny too and then I seen between Ashton and jasmine that mirror scene I think is pretty good. It's pretty yeah I agreed. So for me. There's a character aspects that I love that I wanna ask you about and then there's also a a specific scene that I love. The scene is. When this is the beginning so I don't think it's a spoiler she has to wear turist clothing. To, this meeting and she has been so. Worried about this meeting for her career and she has to go in wearing this very last minute that somebody else picked out that is like super SORTA Schlocky and like. Fuck it. I'm owning this. I'm rolling like this was my plan all along and I was like, wow I like you. This sort of all right all right. Fine. Fine Fine. I'm still going to do this. Anyway it tells you so much about her character. I love that part. So that was that was kind of intent I mean it definitely was intentional I really thought a lot about her response and I thought, okay if I'm reading something that's going to be billed as Rom com what are some of the kind of Ram Com tropes that I can use? Makeover. True? But. Like the bumping into each other kind of meat disaster, the coffee spill like that's you know A. Kind of a recognizable point but I wanted her reaction to it to be different where she's she's not the kind of person who blows up at somebody she's. Like okay she's like I know this was an accident like. But. Okay. How am I gonNa fix this Yup and she goes and she just tries to fix it. You know it's not her aim to make him feel bad about it. No. And Of course he does but yeah. But she really just tries to make the best of it and I thought that her response to it would tell so much about who she is and then also like set up the story and show that she is like she's a nice person you know and she brings in her cousins for hype squad and ask size to lake role within you know she's an actress she's like all right I'm going to put on the confidence cloak and just go forth yet. It's like it's like nonstop Improv and worst reverse makeover. It's in an does so much work to establish the character so quickly so seriously, well played. Thank you. The other thing I love and I want to ask you about is. Heroin Insecurity. About the fact that she doesn't speak Spanish. I really really was drawn to that part because it's such a cultural insecurity that isn't commonly seen and it's and it's doubly. Affecting for her because she's in Della novellas and she has to learn language almost phonetically but doesn't have the fluency to. Actually have a conversation in Spanish but she still operating in a very Spanish centered culture. How how challenging was that for you to write what was that like? It I. Mean it's basically my experience. So Wasn't too challenging. I just wanted to make sure that At no point. Did I make it sound like Jasmine I guess like that. There was anything wrong with rights. Yeah absolutely. because. I, think, especially, if you are. Part of the diaspora and like she's already second generation. So there's so many factors that go into whether or not. You learn the language at home even if you live in a lingual household. Though I did grow up in a bilingual household, but it was just kind of the thing right I really didn't fluently up Spanish but it was always there so and then I studied it in school so I can read it and write it. Better than I can speak it. You know and I can read it out loud. I can pronounce everything but in terms of conversational Spanish just because I don't. Think it that quickly. Anymore when I was studying in school, we really did a lot of kind of immersion. With it then but that was a long time ago. Yeah. So I it's hard for me to converse You know I I can't like translate in my head as quickly It was always kind of this thing like my mom worked in bilingual education so I would like meet her colleagues and of course they would speak to me in Spanish I was like I'm sorry And my mom really wanted my grandmother to speak to me in Spanish and my grandmother was like. Like she didn't care. MOM was. HALES's. And You know then I have other cousins who like their parents didn't speak to them in Spanish didn't speak to their parents in Spanish. Either their parents don't have it whereas like my mom and my uncle my aunt like when they get together they. Go back and forth between Spanish and English, and then I have to be able to keep up if I'm listening long. So i. just kind of tried to pull that in the book especially because as I've gotten older older I. Have realized that this is something that a lot of people I think in my generation who are from electronics culture. And grew up in it but. We don't always feel like we have a good enough command of the language. So. That's something that I always intended to give to Jasmine especially, even out of her three cousins like they all speak different degrees There are different degrees of fluency. Yeah. I, I loved that part for so many reasons. I am not letting necks but I do speak Spanish because I was an exchange student. and I was twice once when I was fifteen and once when I was twenty both times I was in Spain both on the first time I was supposed to have an English speaking person in the family with me. But at that time, Spain had something like twenty four percent unemployment and the English speaker got a job and actually he was a professional basketball players who understandably he was not home to teach anish you out playing basketball professionally 'cause obviously that's what you're GonNa do. So I'm fourteen fifteen and tossed into this family. No, one speaks English I'm putting a Spanish Catholic high school nobody speaks English except for the English teacher and I did really well in English class. But. I feel on my glasses and I had no choice but to learn by total painful immersion. And it's weird because for me. So much of the second language is almost in my long term memory like it's in my it's it's like an apart- drive. And I. Can do very casual wall small talk. But if I'm going to have a conversation I need to like either have a drink to lower my my my admissions or I need to. Sort of surround myself with other clues that will wake that part of my brain up and so it. It can be very nerve wracking when someone's like Oh. Sarah speak Spanish get her and I'm like listen I do not speak contractor Spanish I don't speak home improvement Spanish I don't speak whatever it is that the context is happening that is not my language I. Can do bar and school and restaurant and how to give directions on the subway. Those are my Spanish language packs. Those are the ones who get. It it can feel so. Awkward and embarrassing because I want to help and and that that doesn't. Come with that expectation of representation of culture because like I said, I'm not. I'M NOT DNA. Reading Jasmine's experience was so this role and it made so much of a A. Almost, relatable, deeply difficult and hard to resolve insecurity that much like getting spilled on having a terrible makeover. She's like, I'm going GONNA power through this like I do everything else it will fit with her character I think with Jasmine I really just wanted to show that she was able to approach these other areas of her life right concerning her career and stuff with confidence and the slate kind of leading Lady go-getter attitude. But when it came to romance she just like. Couldn't get it together, which I think is relatable. You know. And that was just the area where she would just kind of wait lose that sense of confidence. Yeah. I do feel like it's like it's like it's in there like in in in the hard-drive like you would have to reinstall it. Yes. But it's true like there are certain. You know areas of vocabulary that you know I just don't have. So when I went to Spain in my twenty s by the end of our trip there I was able to speak Spanish with everybody that we encountered but it was stuff lake you know talking to people in stores are on the street or in restaurants and I have that kind of vocabulary but when it comes to. Kind of having conversations about you know memories or things that happened when we were children or. Things we want to do in the future like it's just so hard for me to conjugate. I often say. I. Only exist in the present tense in Spanish right or or I'm really if I'm really cheating my brain is like listen this is not happening I use the for. The past the I think it's the past. Perfect. So all I have to go off in an ego. So IAGO me. WanNa I have eaten something less the only pasture getting for me because it's the most simple I only have to remember five words. Otherwise I exist solely in the present it's very mindful I'm only in the present tense in. Spanish. Asked. I ever use a word like with. Jolly. I feel so proud of myself. I bust out with a subjunctive I get champagne. But I think that's you know that's the difference too. It's like there are certain things that I know from like my home like certain words and phrases and. There's like the rest of it that came from school. So it's like filed in under those kind of classifications like subjunctive and predicate and irregular verb you know whatever And my personal favourite the Spanish second person plural which I call y'all. I was across both throws or out all the all all y'all all y'all tents. I studied Spanish in annual city public school and they told us to just not worry about that. It was. Yeah. Just. My mother can do it because my stepfather's family is actually from Spain. So my Puerto Rican so when his relatives come over my mom. Would slip into like Castillian. Spanish and you tell me later she was like I really have to think about it. Oh Yeah. It's a really useful tense. I kind of wish English had an all y'all informal tents but I have to remember not to use it because it was was it was like ingrained in me from having to go to a Spanish school and learn Spanish that yes, this is very important. Okay. At y'all like literally no one this this but you guys really y'all in English like I. Just you know again growing up in New York say you guys and then I'm like I shouldn't say you guys but I just. Sometimes say you guys. I know I do too. I grew up in Pittsburgh, which was Yun's. So there's unions and in Philadelphia US or US guys. Is Nice in general gender-neutral. It's just that no one outside of Pittsburgh knows what the heck I'm talking about. So I have questions from my Patriot community who were very excited. I was doing this interview I. Am Real I love when I like Ham doing interviews this person that I get my gosh. All right. So colleen wanted to know she knows that you are a super super planner and you really colorful things to to track your progress on manuscripts and she's wondering if you've found any new tips or tricks that are helping you stay focused right now during during the pandemic when I called the quarantines and if that level of planning is also how you plot your your books or do you have a different method for your stories? So I am definitely a story plotter. Osu. And I actually spent this morning before we started talking catching up on my daily planner for this week because I haven't been keeping up with it and I felt like I was such a distracted mass because I hadn't been using my planner. So I was like, okay you take take half an hour to an hour just get caught up and plan out the rest of this week because I didn't. Sunday. Night like your really really helps me So I'm actually using the HP ninety planner system from Sarah Cannon through her heart breathing's website. And it's basically a quarterly planning system. So every quarter do this whole big plan for the quarter and then. Keep track you know week to week and she has like reviews and stuff. So that has really been helping me kind of extra during these quarantines Yeah mm-hmm I also. Since. I think I started a journal sometime in in March or April, and then. Didn't really keep up with it regularly until mid, May. But since mid-may I have been writing in my inner journal one page every single day. So I try to start my day with doing a little bit of non-fiction reading and then writing a page in my journal just lake whatever pops into my head just to get it out not lake. Here's what I did yesterday or what I'm going to do today is not about that. it's just like a brand up. The idea. Also being like if I am just getting words down in some format, it will make it easier to work on my manuscript because I've already been writing something. As for a story plotting I use scrivner and I kind of track of everything in there But I do also have lots of, Lake writing and word count stickers and stuff like that that I put in my planner like if I that I put a little sticker and I write my number of words on it, and then sometimes I also have stickers that kind of represent the project that I'm working on the APPS put one of those on there too, and it just makes me feel like I got something done today and I were awarded by so so. It's a, it's a decoration self reward. ooh. And going back to the to what we were talking about how with language it's almost like it's in the long term storage and you have to boot it back up. I also find it for me when I'm doing my tiny little box, fill the little box with with with words in the morning. A I'm not caffeinated. So my brain is a wild place. Directions all the time but also it there's only a limited amount of space in my brain for a random thoughts and if I get them out and put them on paper I, have more room in my brain for other things. It's almost like clearing mental clutter when I do that does that happen for you too? Yes it's it's definitely that because it's like, yeah, you know you've got all these thoughts. kind of swirling around and sometimes if I can just write them down, it's like, okay I don't have to think about that thing anymore it's the same thing with my planner once I add the thing to the to do list I don't have to think Oh have to do that thing liberating down and it's like an access it when I need to you know in the Journal helps me I think. I think it's Joan diddy who has quote about this about like I don't know what I think about something until I write it down. Yeah and sometimes as I'm writing, I'll just like write something down and I'm like, oh That's how I feel about that thing and I fast it. And the process of getting out of your brain into your arm and into paper with a pen. I find for me. It's it's a more intimate connection, even though much faster and more comfortable typing the writing does something different. It does. Yeah. So I'll handwrite At different points in my writing process to Oh interesting all of my initial character work in a notebook Lake writing like backstory scenes and kind of brainstorming there're there GMC either go motivation conflict there limiting beliefs and like all of that stuff I do that notebook before even moved to scrivener you know used like different colored pens and stuff like that. I have certain pen colors that will be for like that character in that project and it. Kind of helps me like differentiate. When? I'm working on and like the different sections in the notebook and it also makes me feel like I'm getting a lot done like because then I can just like flip through the pages and I'm like, wow, look how much wrote. Yeah. Yeah. It's visual. It's visual progress. Claudia wanted to know wanted me to ask you are you a big TV fan or are you a big Telenovela watcher? So tedious kind of my weakness. It is the thing that when I decided. That I was going to get serious about writing because for so long. I had been an artist like that was my way that I identified myself. And writing was just something fun that I did on the site. You know I started doing National Raimondo when I was twenty one I wrote fantastic before that like I always did it but. I didn't really. Take it seriously or give it due time and attention. When I decided I was going to do that I was like, okay you know you wanNA. Do this you're gonNA have to make the time right? You don't find the time to make the time. So what can I change or give up in the sense and I was like, oh no, I'm going to have to give up scripted television. So that that was what I did and suddenly I had lots of time writing. Now I try not to watch too much TV while I'm drafting wild him really working on something and it's kind of the thing that I do in between in the last couple of weeks I finally started watching more TV again because. Of. Is like working a Lotta Promo in the book came out and they have the next book to and then as for Telenovelas they they'll something that my grandmother watched and she would make us leave the room when I was a kid like when she was watching them but I did watch soap operas with my Babysitter Puerto Rican. But as far as I know I don't think she watched Illinois Vela's I think she just watched the. So I would watch that with her when I was homesick or after school and then I did watch I've watched some of the the English remakes like ugly Betty, Jane, the Virgin and I did watch some episodes like. Gearing up for this book I such a hard time saying this one in go Bernabei. it's got Kate Doug Seo I think. In it and she plays like she's like the mix it in Mexican presidents like wife or something like very dramatic and then Paseo Nick Avalon, which is lake these three brothers. WHO AAC Something happens to their sisters. SO THEY WANNA get revenge on this family, but then they end up falling in love with the. Daughter or something along those lines. So there were some that I watched as research. Which is nice to be able to just watch. TV. Is Research now, right like Oh this. This is important very important work. And then I did watch. Gloria's they'll novella TV show which was short-lived. But it is brilliant and hilarious. recommended. Gosh and I am not a TV person Oak. One of the things I love about Telenovelas as opposed to soap operas. Telenovelas have an end goal in sight like the short right they know where they're going and one of the things I struggle with scripted television and talked about this on the on the podcast before that I don't trust TV writers because they don't want to reach the end they want to reach syndication in perpetuity and keep these people moving in circles forever and ever McLennan. No, I'm a novel reader. I need to know you know the end if I don't trust the you know the end I'm going with you. So when you watch it fell novella, you know that they know the end you're in good hands. Right. Yeah. I'm like that too like if there's a show that I didn't start watching when it began and then it's got like five or six seasons or something supernatural or there was like fourteen seasons I'm like, nope too many episodes can't watch it. I am also notorious for watching like the first or second season of the show and then In. The wait time between you know whenever the next season comes out I'm just like I've already forgotten what happened. And now I have other shows I'm interested in it and they just never get back to watching it But there's like so much to watch now although. With the pandemic, if you know it's GonNa, be harder they're going to run out of stuff. Eventually I'm hoping that we'll see more animated stuff to. Hang out of this time I think that could be really cool And that's actually why a lot of times I'll just watch league either half hour comedy or half hour animated show because it's short you know oftentimes if they had commercials or something, they're probably only like twenty twenty, two minutes. And that's about all as long as it takes me to completely eat a meal. So the one that I've been watching now is Avatar the last air better. And I will sometimes only even get through half an episode you know while I'm working all day and then I'll say okay I'm GonNa, take lunch break or dinner break and I'll watch half episode. Back to work. I love that show Oh it's so good. I'm almost season three. It's. I've watched it with I've watched it with my kids three times already. So good. One of the Best Villain Redemption Arc's I have ever seen F.. O. When when you were writing the Telenovela in your in your book did you have like the best time writing that whole story? It was so much fun. I think also because I didn't have to write any of the hard parts, right? But there was definitely a point where I was like, why didn't I just make this the story? This is so much easier. Yeah it was I mean I. Did put a lot of thought into it. You know like how I was GonNa, show those scenes the kind of took me a while to figure out how and then like what exactly was going to happen in all of them. So I had to figure out the entire arc of that season what the characters were doing, what they wanted with the conflict was the other side characters were and then what was going to happen in each episode and then just what snippet from those episodes I was going to show on the page, right? So It was a lot of planning I probably. I did more planning on that than I did with some other areas of the book even though that book pretty quickly But those scenes ended up being so much fun to write because it's it's still ashen and jasmine in the scenes, but it's as their characters. So it was really fun and kind of technical exercise to be like, okay. Where am I going to break the Fourth Wall Riley? How can I do this like a really subtle way? So it doesn't like. Kind of take the reader out of the scene but also just lets them know like, no, this is still jazzman you're still in her head even though she's like as Carmen right now. And it's not just listing a story a story it's nesting characters inside characters right and then there's like this kind of double romance going onto because the characters that they play are also falling in love again for them right? And then you have the absolutely off the wall twists that happen in a good telenovela. Oh, like that. That was one of the things. I. Think I made a list at one point of like. Off. The tropes and like how do I them to a US them like in the main story with a use them in the show that they're on like how do I? Work those in do we want to put this in the Real Romance, the romance or? So, Theresa wanted me to ask you how the awesome reception of you had me at Ola impacted your your writing process or your works in progress and how it how has it impacted your way of thinking about promotion. I think that this Theresa who's asking the question is probably longtime friend of mine. because. She texted me yesterday about this podcast because she's Okay that's brilliant. Thank You T. I wrote this book last year. So obviously, a lot of this stuff has been happening like after I turned it in. That's probably gonNA bring the energy down like a tiny bit. But as I was writing this book, one of my cousins was. very ill. Passed away. So that was sorry definitely. Thank you. That was that was definitely like A. A part of it as I was doing this and. So it's like such a weird like space to be in where like I was doing that and then. You know edit the. Write the book at one phase in your life, and then you kind of have to wait and then you edit the book at a different phase, and then all of the promotion for the book has been during this pandemic. So I definitely had. A mental image of how. This released to go I was GONNA have a party. Cooking. Rabble. Yeah and I was like, okay none of that is happening I how do I do this differently So that has been You know I think I'm. Lucky in the where at least used to things a little bit more by now. Than we were even a couple months ago, thinking about how I was going to do events and things like the preorder campaign like how to make all of that stuff work during these wild time we're living in. was definitely interesting and then just all of the the reception for the book Has has been great When I write I really think. About The reader response. Yeah. That I I want from story like how I want them to feel at the end of the book and as they're reading it and so I, feel like in terms of that, I would say it has been a success for me. Personally you know just like the kind of comments that people have made about it to me or on. The books to grand posts and stuff like that have just been really wonderful but. It's also been a lot and I am trying to write the next book that comes after this, which is going to be around Jasmine's cousin Michelle. And it's just been hard to lake sink into it enough to like really really make the kind of progress that I wanNA do. So it's going slower than usual just because I don't have like the brain space or the number of hours yeah yeah. That's what you're working on. Now that is what I'm working on now. Yeah. And I usually do a solo writing retreat when I start a new project because I realize that's what works for me to just like completely get away from everything and just he with my book have like the whole day ahead of me like however use the time that day is up to me and I can work on it and then step away and come back. And I haven't really been able to do that. So that's been a little bit of struggle but I wake Michelle is like one of my favorite characters so I am excited to be writing her book. I am very excited for her book in trying to contain myself. And it's it. It's even more strange how time is going to affect the way you perceive things like you wrote this book last year which for now, that's ten years ago. Oh, my Gosh Yeah. That was a completely different decade. So imagine like in the future what when this next book comes out, it'll be like twenty twenty-nine. Oh my gosh. Yeah. You know we think about it coming out next year and it feels like I look at different lifetime. It really does but at the same time, you get to preserve your timeline in the story world. So you have that Nice you that comfort of continuity in the in the world you're creating to. Yeah. That's Shero. A conversation happening now amongst contemporary romance writers is whether or not to include what's happening in the books. Yeah. And I've I've thought a lot about it. I mean obviously, how can we not And I think. For at least the next two books in this series. For this next I. You Know I. had already planned it and started working on it before all this happened so. I would have to change so much. You know it completely change the trajectory of the series that I have set up for it so. It kind of can't and also like who knows what things are going to be like next year like I. Already. Yeah. We had no idea that things would like be like this now that it would last this long or like. You know everything happening so. With. These projects that were already planned before the pandemic started I think I just have to like continue them as planned. But then after that, I might consider like hopefully we'll be on the other side of this. But who knows like I'm kind of. In, my apartment for the long haul. Yeah. So. I'll see then but. For Right now, they're just going for. Well I. Think in some ways. And I don't want to be too too too presumptuous because obviously, I'm not going to tell you to do not charge of anything. But what are the elements of you had me at all I was that the hurricane affected heroes, heroes, parents, the family and his and his piece of his life that he's not public about. So he has this very private pain that is known in shared by thousands and thousands of people. And it's just something that is carried. Does that make sense? Yeah. So perhaps that's how the pandemic beach in future books for for writers it is something that is carried, but it's not something is happening actively in the story. Right and I'll tell you when I was planning the book when I first got the idea for it. Hurricane. Maria had just happened like a few months earlier. So it was like very present in my mind. You know would be for Ashen as well but as I was like working on edits was earlier this year. So it was when the earthquakes were happening. And I was lake. Terrified like my aunt was texting me like she got stuck in an elevator for one of them and her building like. and. I was like, how do I approach this? I wrote a bunch of like really angry others notes that didn't make it into the book, but I was just like how much of this? Do I put in the story like, do I change things now? Like you know what do I do So, I obviously did not put the earthquakes in and instead I just kind of like wrote something in my acknowledgements but. You know even now like in my draft I put in a line like. at one point like the heroes like getting picked up at the airport and he says something about like. Yeah, they're still not too many people flying. And I have thought about where I could include notes about like masks. Just in case if if I decide to include that stuff, you know if by the time the book comes out or as you know I'm working on at its or whatever like things are different like how can I just note it so that it's like something. Familiar in that way. But. No promises that was lights will stay in the book but it just it is something I'm thinking about yeah and it's hard to write a cultural change that is happening right now. It's easier once it's happened a little bit totally. Yeah. I mean I think. You know if I were self publishing something I wanted to write it and set it like right now and could put it out before the end of this year that would be a totally different story of course but. You know because we just don't know and we're in the middle of IT and production time is what it is. Is What it is. Yes exactly. you know. I. Also feel like just. Personally. I. Prefer to talk about things like. I have processed them. As You know when I'm going through something is like not what I'm going tweet about it or whatever. But after I have gone through it processed it and then come out the other side like, okay I understand this and I understand my feelings about it and my thoughts then it can kind of put that forth so. With this book, what's happening in? It is kind of like. Hang me processing like the frustration that we're going through now. So the feelings are there if not the actual situational events. Yeah. That makes sense that makes a Lotta sense and it's not an easy question for any writer to have to figure out when you're writing temporary that's really difficult. So, this is my favorite question I. Love asking this question what are you reading that? You? WanNa tell people about Okay. So I've been doing a lot of audiobooks awesome year during the pandemic ice will sit with a puzzle and listening to an audio book for hours and that is on loan. It is so relaxing it's really relaxing because it will I literally cannot think about anything else. Like the puzzle engages like my hands and like my eyes and the audiobook engages my brain like an I just. Shut. Everything else out is great. So one that I'm listening to right now is daring in the Duke by Sarah McLean. I. It's in her bare knuckle bastard series and I just really love these characters and also kind of unexpected they are So, I'm listening to that one right now and also the audiobook narrator for that series does a great job I also recently finished the Black Flamingo by Dean Atta, which is a y a novel told. It's a little hard to tell any audio. It's at least partly inverse. because. A character kind of like write some poems and perform some. It's really well done and I listen to that. Lake as an unintentional unintentional follow up to all boys aren't blue by George M Johnson and both of these books are about growing up. Gay In black and you know Georgia's story takes place in New Jersey in like the nineties whereas the Black Flamingo takes place. It and Georgia's is a memoir black flamingo is fiction but. Still, very personal on and takes place in London now but they're still a lot of parallels in those were like really good to listen to. I would also recommend here to stay by the EPA. Which I did blurb so I got to read an early version of it. And it's coming out soon and it's just like so cute and so sexy it's about a group of New Yorkers moved to Dallas and then kind of create like a meet up group so that they can make friends and I could totally see myself hanging out with them So it like felt very true to me. and then one to look out for that I also got to read early I think comes out next year is too good to be real by Melanie. Johnson and it is like true Rom com it is so funny. So, keep an eye out for that. And that brings us to the end of this week's episode. Thank you to Alexis Doria for hanging out with me. I will have links to her website, her twitter and instagram feed, and of course, to all of her books and all of the book she mentioned as well in the show notes at smart bitches trashy books, dot com slash podcast. I will also be ending this episode with a really bad joke. So stay for like two minutes and then you'll get a joke. They just make you Groan at your family. It'll be wonderful. This episode was brought to you in part by best fiends. If you are looking for a way to pass the time, engage your brain and enjoy a really cute story. Your answer is best means best fiends is a casual game easy to pick up very difficult for me to put down. It is really easy to become invested in the story, the characters, the challenge of solving one more puzzle and best of all their updates monthly with new levels. I love the characters I love the each character gives you a tool W, solve the next puzzle and I. Love How challenging each one is and that little rush you get. When you solve one, you can engage your brain with fun puzzles and collect tons of cute characters. Trust me with over one hundred, million downloads five star rated mobile puzzle game is a must play download best fiends free on the apple APP store or Google play that's friends without the our best fiends. Thank you as always to our Patriot community I often share upcoming interview news with them and ask for questions and ask for suggestions. So if you would like to be part of the podcast Patriot community have a look at Patriot dot com slash bitches each and every pledge makes a deeply appreciated difference. Thank you so much and hello again Patriot community you are always fabulous And now it's time for the bad juke. Yes. This is my favorite part. I love the so much this week's joke comes from Elise who has been writing for for many many years and texted me this over the weekend to which I snort left and then immediately tortured family, but you're ready. Serious podcast voice because clearly this is a very serious professional episode with you know large equipment mission. No machine noises the cat jumping up and down in meowing he goes again seriously. Yep. Very professional podcast voice. Here we go. Why do Shit Zoos like NASCAR? Why do Shitsu like Nascar. Because they're lapdogs. Bad, I love it. Thank you, lease. lapdogs on behalf of everyone here including Wilbur who cannot decide whether he wants to be on the desk or more. We wish you the very best of reading. I hope every book you pick up this weekend and a wonderful, and we will see you back here next week. SMART. PODCAST trashy books is part of the FROLIC podcast network. You can find terrific podcast to listen to at frolic dot media slash podcasts. Awesome.

Sarah Cannon Alexis Doria Telenovelas Jasmine US Patriot community Spain twitter Spain Journal writer A. Kind Maria Dresden Hurricane Patriot dot Alexa New York City Caroline Age