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"posco kaleida" Discussed on The Economist Radio

The Economist Radio

06:01 min | 1 year ago

"posco kaleida" Discussed on The Economist Radio

"Hello. I'm coming up on today's show the exciting new plans for the successor to the large Hadron collider. You need fundamentally design new signs new physics to do the extra experiments. So we've got thirty or forty years before this thing is actually built and another five or six years force even proved the challenge of quickly making vaccines for yet, unknown pathogens. Once we've proved that these new systems work at thought point if disease comes along, but we've never seen before we could in theory producers of of axiom for trials right quickly. And how to new letters may help us create new drugs. Researchers have been trying to modify interleukin two in order to create a version that would have all of the benefits, and none of the costs. I'm Kenneth cookie. A senior editor of the economist. And you're listening to baggage. First Sern has just published its ideas for its successor to the large Hadron collider, given the working name future circular collider or FCC. It aims to be four times the size and ten times as powerful to discuss these plans, and why the current large Hadron collider needs replacing I'm joined by look job the science correspondent for the economist. Hello, look, hiking. So tell me why does it need upgrading. So the launch Adron Kaleida has been going great guns for the last few years discovered. The Higgs bows on twenty twelve which was kind of one of the first things it was meant to do to discover new physics, and since then it's kind of not discovered anything else is unlocked collisions, it's got really good at finding Hague's is and understanding what they all. But we really want possible physics to find the next new pods. Call the next new falls because there's a huge question the POSCO physicists and cosmologists trying to answer which is. To have this thing called the standard model of particle physics, which was created over the last hundred years, and well that tells you about all the possibles enforces be not exist. So electrons glue on's at cetera. And this is what stuff is made of an also tells you how things interact, but it's not complete. So it doesn't have a theory of gravity in that. And we know that doesn't include all of the matter and energy in the universe because the dark energy, and this dog matter these things exist, they're actually most of the universe. We don't know what they are. So we noticed onto modal is no complete. So the way we find out what those other things are is to smash particles higher higher and higher energies. And look at what's inside. And that will tell you what's out there. So this large Hadron collider can do some of that. But the future Kaleida, which you've mentioned that will hopefully go up to something like ten times the size, and so what exactly are the plants? So the large Hadron collider will probably ongoing for the twenty or so years. I mean, there's lots of life left in night. It's actually shut down the moment to try to increase its energy. And its capabilities, but if you want to build one of these things will the next generation you have to think twenty thirty years and events because you not only have to design something, which is feasible scientifically and useful. But then you have to bring on board pretty much every country in the world because these things called me built by one nation, really these international experiments that take lots of political as well as artistic will. And also you have to basically design completely new materials to make these things function. So the large Hadron collider design new new, magnets, superconducting, magnets, which shouldn't have been done before we took twenty years of research and development had to design new ways of collecting data. So the web was invented in certain in one thousand nine hundred nine as a wave particle physicists sheriff mation for the large Hadron collider. There was so much data there invented a different version of the web called the grid, which is about Shannon computing power all over the world, which is used for supercomputing and all sorts now. So you need so fundamentally design new signs and new physics to do the actual experiments. So we've got thirty. Thirty or forty years before this things actually built and another five or six years voice, even proved. Okay. So we've got big data big science big cost huge cost. I mean, I laughed there. Because then how long's a piece of string? I've told you that we've got to invent new materials and invent new ways of analyzing data that probably thousands of scientists and hundreds of countries. So whatever number you have now multiplied by ten for what actually will cost. I think this Kaleida will might cost of the order of twenty or thirty billion euro now, and who knows what actual cost will be. But you know, with every penny last week, we covered science in China. And so the question I would pose is to what degree is this driven by the rivalry between China and the west in terms of who's got the biggest piece of scientific kit. We know that China wants to compete in the best levels of signs all around the world. So there is a plan for similar hundred kilometer confronts POSCO Kaleida in China. So scientifically. Yes, there is a bit of a rivalry. But actually behind the scenes scientists collaborate all the time Chinese scientists and science Chinese counterparts if they're all security concerns. Yes. There are problems. So don't think there's a there's there is a rivalry as such because they will only be one international collider, this sort. There's no point building to and China only have a build its own one. If it really isn't allowed to be part of the international collaborations. So if you read the documentation around the future, Kaleida, they note that the Chinese have already come up with a secular Kaleida of similar size and similar energy to the future Kaleida that discern come up with. But they see that as a good thing. They say that that means that this design is a good design is that the other scientists who will say independently peer review, design and that way. So I wouldn't say it's competitive all other designs out there for these things without the design of the different scientists, it's no competition with China. It's competition between scientists all over the world. But then once they will decide on one. I think they're gonna go for that one. That's great. Look, we're going to have you back on the show. Show in twenty forty twenty fifty when the things up and running. Thank you very much. You're welcome.

China Kaleida Adron Kaleida POSCO Kaleida senior editor Kenneth cookie FCC POSCO Hague forty years six years twenty thirty years hundred kilometer hundred years twenty years