19 Episode results for "Oscar Fernandez"

Losing Your Father to COVID-19

Latino Rebels Radio

28:32 min | 9 months ago

Losing Your Father to COVID-19

"Yeah. Excuse me. Latino rebels, Radio Latino Rebels Radio Hoodie Koloa here it is Sunday. The second of August twenty twenty. So if you're fan of Latino rebels radio, you know that the Latino media collective which is radio program out of DC fills in for US sometimes. So I've gotten to know Oscar Fernandez. Who is of the Latino media collective very well the last couple of years he's a great guy. Basin the DMV. and. The last time I talked to him about a month ago. I found out that his dad had passed away to covid. When I found out I I wanted to connect with. Oscar about it. To See if he would be willing to talk about it. And he said he would. And we connected over the weekend. So. Here's what we talked about on Latino rebels radio over the weekend. With Oscar Fernandez of the Latino media. Collective. Oscar. Fernandez. Welcome back to Latino rebels radio. What's up brother? I'm doing good I'm doing good life is beautiful. My Mom's birthday was quite recently. So I have to say plan your mom while she's listening to this I, wanted to bring you on because. I. I was struggling and we we we stay in touch but then you told me the news of your father and it really crushed me as a friend someone because you've you've given a lot to yourself, you project what you do but also you're part of the family I mean, you are our guest co host when I decided to take breaker to how are you feeling tell me a little bit about what happened first let's start there. Sure first of all, thank you very much for inviting me to discuss this haven't discussed this in public manner like this. and. So just to give you the basics on May Twenty First, my dad had a stroke. And so he was hospitalized and during his hospitalization desks when they discovered that he had tested positive for the coronavirus. Now, knee him but five other members of my Dad's side family. Tested positive as well, and they all have very close in a suburb in DC called Wheaton Maryland. And so. Obviously I was keeping track and keeping inform with the hospital above my desk condition. Obviously, I can go there to physically see him because of the circumstances. But yet at the time when she told me that he had positive, he was not. On a ventilator. And for three or four days after the twenty first, that was keeping in contact with the hospital. And I'll tell you that every as recently as Monday. The week that he passed away as recently as Monday that which the social worker at the hospital that actually called me. To discuss plans about him having physical therapy with regards to stroke because they felt like his condition at improved. Well enough that the plan you know some form of physical therapy because he had lost all. Movement in in his right side of his body because of stroke. Unfortunately about four days later on the twenty eighth like at. One thirty in the morning I get that phone call and said phone call that we all. Dread. In. Our. Lives. In the middle of the night from the hospital, and they basically told me that during the course of that evening that his his His heart stopped three times. And they had to resuscitate him use a defibrillator. And at that point he. was back on the ventilator and so this is. You know. Primarily because of defects, the effects of the of the virus that has conditioned completing took a one eighty. Overnight. and. So the hospital called me and said, you know in no uncertain terms that she should come to the hospital to see him because he was in a condition where. He. Could basically go at any moment. And so. You know again it's hard to go to hospital right now to visit anyone because. Everyone's covered from head to tell you know nurses doctors everyone especially in the ICU. But nonetheless, they allow me to go into the ICU to see him. And to say, you know basically my final goodbyes to him because that's the condition where he was at at that moment in time. And Yeah all the twenty eighth at like around four thirty when he passed away. And I was there biocide when his heart stopped? Well. Thank you for sharing. Tell me about your your your dad, your e whole I mean, I say, behold for my dad. What kind of soul was he for you? He was very hard working guy again A Guy. A few words I would say which is quite ironic because i. Obviously talk a lot considering the work I do on the radio review he came to the US from Salvador and seventy six he first made his way to California. Then actually drove from San Francisco to Washington DC where me and the rest of my family lives. and. So this is the type of journey that a lot of Salvadoran. Immigrants took during this period of time he came to the US with best. An eighth grade education. But he was an amazing auto mechanic that was the majority of his work here in the US was that of an auto mechanic And I could see that you know he pretty much in every autoshop they worked at during his lifetime he was You. Know. Mr Mr Reliable Mr Dependable You know if you go to any auto body shop. You know there's always you know. Forms of AFC certificates and diplomas. On mechanics have to show you know to the public. To to show people, you know their credentials as far as you know, they're working in auto repair most guys had like five or six degrees on the wall. My Dad, would have his own section of the wall altogether with seventeen to eighteen degrees. And that just spoke soon how much how hard he worked? and. How committed he was to his his type of job and how he was pretty much Mr reliable Mister Kimble. In, every autoshop worked at and I would have to say that you know in hindsight's con reflecting over my dad's. Life and career in the country that a lot of that he passed down to me whether directly or indirectly. so He sure he was very hardworking. and. You know considering where his liberal education was when he came to us and to where his career took him, it's quite impressive when I look back on it Oscar I forgot to ask Your Dad's name and and also how has your family? Been Grieving your loss still my dad's name is Danilo Bond Mortar Fernandez. So he's originally from Salvador. Born in fifty five. And actually what we're recording this in, July this month would have been his sixty fifth birthday. And so there's still a lot of reminders every now, and then about you know his passing I still faced with from time to time. But yet as you can imagine, my family took it hard. As I said before about five other members of my Dad's side family. Tested positive for virus. Some. You know went to the hospital had to be hospitalized. Others did not but it has hit US PRETTY HARD You know just to be clear my parents are divorced. But nonetheless, you know people on my mother's side of family were also pretty hit hard by. By what happened and even relatives WHO NOT DIRECTLY RELATED TO BE? No, you know. came up to me in. And told me directly that you know my dad was. Quite, a father figure to them. In. In very direct and indirect ways so. You know quite a lot of mixed emotions and also. Dealing with the immediate because there are still people who are recovering from the virus on my Dad's side family. I have one uncle who is still hospitalized as we speak right now. Trying to recover after being. In hospital former two months now. And he still not aware that my dad passed away not know that his. That, his brother who has passed away. And so. It's still an ongoing thing in one form or another as far as the grieving process and how to face this pandemic that's affecting all of us right now. So Oscar talk to me about the community in general about the virus and how it's impacting. The Salvadoran community and the DMV or or you know. The Latino community in DC I mean, how was cows your family's experience is is it a another example of what you've been seeing out in DC and what how it's been overly impacting Latino community? We'll see that's a good question because as I said before majority of my Dad's side family live in the suburbs Outside. of DC called Wheaton Maryland. And this narrative has been hit particularly hard not just because of my family, but also because it's predominantly. immigrant is predominantly Latino. And is don lead people that. Folks do not have the financial resources or luxury to Orange. Or to stay at home because of lack of financial resources. I would even go so far to say that I know that Latino. USA Did something on a suburb of Boston called Chelsea right right and I would go so far as to say that. As far as static tuitions concern, you can easily. Switch to names to Wheaton Maryland and come up with the same results and the same consequences as well because there are a lot of working class people where my dad lived. that. Are you know? Do not have the financial resources to. Social. Dentists. Or to stay away from work or to quarantine as a matter of fact, I would have to say that that's one reasons that. Led to perhaps my dad's exposure to you. Getting Positive for the coronavirus my dad live together with my aunt and they shared a five bedroom house wears other. Thing renting the rooms with. and. So again, these are working class people who are working jobs where they don't have the luxury of social distancing. And it's my understanding based on what I've been told was that one person in the house you got infected. Everyone else in the House infected my dad was pretty much retired at this point he wasn't going outside to begin with so. Unfortunately for lack of better term, he was sort of sitting duck. In his own home for getting exposed to this virus in the reason, I, tell you that is because I have a have a feeling that this situation scenario. That led to my father's passing happens a lot more an immigrant communities and right realize that's why I wanted to ask you this Oscar and first of all, I appreciate you appreciate you as a friend. To come here and be so public about your grief and and also being able to take that grief and look at it the way you always have in sort of. How is this a bigger story and you know making that connection between that suburban Maryland right outside of DC to Chelsea? Massachusetts. which is right outside Boston. Yes. You're right file that story for Latino USA and those those show. You know those those cities Oh suburbs are all around us all around the country. So as you watch as you live this as you grieve this as you look at the news coverage, why do you think that hasn't been a bigger issue not that it hasn't been covered but. I don't see it as a story that really is in the American consciousness. So what do you think about the reasons why? You know it's something I. Don't think people who are in power. Take into account out at all. Whatsoever. and. I don't know I'm still struggling with that question right now because in addition to hosting my own radio show I, also work at a medical clinic as well. And I deal with these issues concern both you and I together. And I'm just left scratching my head sometimes as to why this isn't a larger picture. Or. Ledge. Larger issue I should say then people. Should take I mean. I mentioned a scenario that led to my father's passing. As a Spanish speaker, I take phone calls at work and I hear scenarios that sound very similar to my dad's passing or something that could lead to something similar to what happened to my dad. Just let leaves me scratching my head as to why is this not not only? A bigger issue. But why aren't more resources being put into these communities that desperately need help? That's we should remind people as we have this conversation undocumented immigrants did not receive any stimulus checks and I could tell you that because I get those phone calls from people asking for some sort of financial relief even now seven months after the first. Stimulus stimulus check came about so. It's an answer. Will. It's a question that I'm still struggling with to answer because face it every day and I, and I come up with Saint Problem, which is, why is this not a bigger issues than people take into account? Yeah and we add you know you're like me you know you're also looking at the stories you're also looking Latin America. In this time, you've done shows about you know the movement, not only the pandemic, but just the movement of. Black lives and how does this all get connected but hauer are you feeling this curiosity define those connections? Are you still breathing my friend? I mean I guess are used to do you feel like you can't I know you you're struggling with that question but do you feel like I want to explore this or do you feel like I need to take a break? It's quite surreal because my dad passed away the same weekdays George Fluid was killed. And allow as much as I support, you know and take into account the black lives matter movement both here in the US and abroad. Obviously my heart in my mind are somewhere else. So I can't. I don't know if I could. Put One hundred percent into. Solidarity when when my heart is someone else and I don't want to waste anyone's time. You. Know if I'm not one hundred percents into it and it's actually kind of surreal you brought that up because. You know I live in the neighborhood this not that far from the White House. and. The same night when Donald Trump decides to do his little. Photo OP and further church over sixteen street near the White House I could hear you know the the tear gas bombs being. Being, shot by the military whoever was in? The military helicopters hovering over my. My apartment all this was going on and I'm at home watching CNN watching all this unfold, and this is during a time of personal grieving as well. It's quite surreal to have all of that happened all at once and to almost Larry Hear it on your doorstep. So it's It's come to me in ways that could never imagine those two things coming together. Are You I? Mean you sound for? So thank you again, This my last question as I feel I, hear the pain and the grief but I also hear your your debt. You know you're fighting spirit the you know you say you didn't learn from your dad you know it seeps in father seep into sons no matter what people say I mean? I'm are you coping? Are you trying to? Do. Are, you okay. Are you finding any hope or joy or anything that? Helps with the grief are you still in a period of like this surrealness? This I still have to cope with it. Just give me your final thought Lewis to real at the beginning because I want to tell you that you know grieving an under these circumstances not the way. One would hope or magic so. So that moment when my dad passed away I was in the room with him and. Again it was quite surreal because you can wipe the tears from your face because you wearing this face yield, you can't touch your your your mouth because of the facemask you can't even touched a hair on your head. Still all these fiscal mannerisms said one usually does to try to express their grief he couldn't even do it. So I'm just sitting there. In the room with head, just holding my own hands and now is just a real. Moment of powerlessness. I wish upon anyone. But that said, you know my dad, you know raise me to be. To be strong in in sort of things and to be resolute if anything. My Dad taught me that sort of guidance during this time is that. You know he didn't want me to be like him. He wants wanted me to be better than him. The goal of leadership is to create leaders not followers. So he pretty much. Sentiment, some intern uncertain terms over the years that. Take. Could have take what I give you an improve apartment and that's something that still. Resin resonates in my head as I had this conversation review as go about my regular day John as I go about my work on radio. is to carry that strength. Rid Me. To continue to to do what I do. Ninety only four radio but just for everyday life as well. AM. Still. A lot of things that deserve our attention. And A. Lot of issues that need to be addressed and. This is why we do what you and I together. To raise awareness to so many issues because. You know even in this time of grief know people in the global south cannot afford to have dissidents like you and I. To, become cynical, right it's not our lives lose and it's not our future, the mortgage I certainly paid. A heavy price in the last few months but there's something. In the. Back of, my mind. And I think a lot of it draws. So my dad strength, the says I need to continue. I need to push Sean 'cause people still need me, I mean. Even. You know one hardest parts during this whole thing is that. My Grandma. Dad's mother is still alive. And so it had to talk to her over. skype or whatever it was, and that was pretty hard. But at the same time, she also leaned on me for strength and or you know being there for my dad in his final moments and so. Again, that's also something that's that carry you know right now so This is what leads me to have this conversation with you and to do it which in a resolve and Strength because. We still have a lot of work to do and a lot of love because you know Oscar that you to me and Latino rebels year kind of extended family. We are so grateful for you as a voice as in in the work that you guys do at the Latino media collective has just for us it. So it's so important and I worry as a friend. But I also hear the Oscar that I know who's like I'm GonNa keep at it and we're GonNa you know. We keep at it right and you know that you you know your loved by many I really appreciate you. Opening up with me and feeling that you're in a safe space because that's that's you know for me like that's what family's all about and I will I send you many virtual our Aso's and one day we will be you know once this is all said and done we will see somewhere most likely in DC but I just wanted to send you my blessings in and my love to you. Thank you so much for being on the show. Absolutely. Let me just say one last thing. We probably wouldn't have this conversation because my of my dad because she gave me my first radio at twelve years old. While he's the one that recognize my interests in this in this line of work in. It and pushed it, and this is why we're having this conversation right now because my dad there you go his spirit is here and Thank you on that Donnie Loin and thank you Scott, Fernandes for being on decent continue to struggle. I WanNa thank Oscar again for being on the show and sharing his story with us. Think it captures of. An example of one one family Battling cove in nineteen during these times. So, thank you Oscar for for being on and we will definitely be featuring. Shows from the Latino media collective. Throughout the year like we always do. Guys if you like what you heard to straight review. US. Share this podcast with others? We're actually Hitting a nice rhythm with the shows and and listeners. And I just WanNa thank everyone for supporting us just keep doing it. Big Shot, Luis Luna for all his help all his fantastic help that he does a Latino rebels radio each and every day. And we'll be back sometime later this week and like we always do we always close outweighed la La and Ben Does Julia Galore Ariella Latino rebels radio. Absolutely. and. Then add. A.

US Oscar DC Oscar Fernandez Oscar Wheaton Maryland DMV. Salvador Boston Chelsea AFC Danilo Bond Mortar Fernandez Wheaton CNN Orange Donald Trump San Francisco Maryland White House.
266: What Can We Learn From the Zoot Suit Riots of 1943?

Latino Rebels Radio

53:58 min | 1 year ago

266: What Can We Learn From the Zoot Suit Riots of 1943?

"Pick up the latest fire extinguishers and smoke alarms from Kibera alarms come with lithium ion batteries that a last for ten years exactly the right time to start you need to replace your home's old fire safety equipment every ten years in other words toss at ten then started and the best place to start the Home Depot media collective they do great work out of Washington. DC they produce he's really cool interviews and shows and topics and once in a while we featured it took uh-huh here is one of their summer shows about the zoot suit riots that we wanted to share on eighteen rebels radio so here is recorded that the studios that W W eighty nine point three FM Washington a district of Columbia here on this Friday July twenty six two thousand nineteen greetings greetings greetings even meals that Tommy turning Washington and all points beyond this is Oscar Fernandes and you're listening to Latino medical correct it old and of course live on WPF Wfan dot org that's WPF W FM dot org once again this is Oscar Fernandez being motivated by fashion but as we have seen in recent times racism and xenophobia knows no logic nor understanding the Komo news in addition with the right amount of provocation from local newspapers of the time the MOM can be directed to target the disenfranchise with devastating results. Gene we're also heard on the Internet on own website which is Latino media collective dot com you can also find us on twitter in the name at L. AMC underscores yeah in today on the show we put the spotlight on southern California as we look back on the legacy of the zoot suit riots and what it can teach us about the anti-immigrant center this moment in California history came under the dark cloud of anti immigrant anti Latino sentiment throughout the country during World War to most men and women were attacked for wearing the now familiar zoot suit attire of long baggy trousers long town Los Angeles carrying clubs or weapons attacking anyone wearing zoot suit or other quilt racially identified clothing and quilt So can't zoot suit riots give us any insight to the anti-immigrant sentiment today yes it can because guys here of Latino rebels radio and as you may or may not know I'm GonNa say you do know are great friends at the Latino media collective meant we see in the US today in one thousand nine forty three sailors from the local US naval reserve armory marched through down go all the way to the beginning and go to like the main flashpoint that set this this riot this very important chapter in California history and Motion Win you know Pearl Harbor December seventh nineteen forty forty one that gets with padded shoulders widely pills long wash change and fedora hats. This style of dress was influenced estate at that time yet and so the first enemies the first people that we were seeing Japanese and Japanese Americans at the beginning of nineteen forty two then that you know once we put them into internment camps the next largest ethnic group that was perceived as foreign were Mexican and Mexican you know it it has the United States entered World War Two and so you know we if I may I'd like to begin even a little bit a little bit before that so it coincided not exactly surprisingly with a perceived fear of a Mexican crime knees because they're the ones who attacked US Pearl Harbor in Hawaii and so hence we have the internment of the arrival of Mexican nationals being brought to the United States to work as part of the program and that is if you could explain to sleep lagoon trial and how it played role in setting the Portugal riots in motion first place sure uh settles start coming start coming to the United States as part of an agreement between the United States and Mexico and so with largely by the African American jazz musicians of the time as well in might be hard for younger people today to understand the logic of such a riot and so so yeah in the summer of nineteen forty two there's this hysteria this fear of a Mexican what they call the Mexican crimes Americans especially in the West Coast especially in southern California and especially with everyone getting ready for war and a lot of were we joined a pro harbor was Japan attacking the United States at least US territory because actually Hawaii wasn't in two thousand assistant professor and the program of Land American Studies at the University of Wisconsin and you Claire Wisconsin and he joins us on the show today via skype welcome to wave and it included targeting I included creating the stereotype of Mexican American youth wave during the summer of nineteen forty two and they did not distinguish between the Mexican nationals that were being brought in to work as part of the to see them as unpatriotic to see them as juvenile delinquents to to give all these and so then this also coincides with the Federal Program that and that summer of nineteen forty two when auto program and people of Mexican descent they were already living in the United States at that time and so people talked about these this breath into in various parts of California here now you just mentioned you know that which was deemed unpatriotic during this period of time Mexican crimewave by people I more specifically mean but media the mainstream media of that time which were the newspapers and even a few I think a few decades beforehand that was the Chinese exclusion act as well which affected people of Chinese descent again meantime federal program as you mentioned before on top of that is discrimination that historical discrimination against African Americans in this time the show today Nikon thank you Oscar so right off the bat I wanted just minding when can zoot suit riots nine hundred forty three you know give us an inside to the anti-immigrant sentiment that we since my opinion is yes and in ortona standard though we we're time so you know right now in in twenty nineteen the US military could be involved with because they hadn't done anything wrong you know they'd be arrested for for things like the not even disturbing the peace but like loitering put in several countries in dropping bombs and the average US citizen is not aware of more than one or two countries it back at home per you know helping the war effort and this is a situation where it's hard and having to let them go it is quite an amazing series of events here that the internment of Japanese is happening almost at the I think people a lot of young men from throughout the country being in the West Coast for the first time prepare as they prepare for war why was this unpatriotic in this context of extreme patriotism the idea that there were youth non-mainstream youth for us to imagine today I mean at this time all factories were expected start making war material negative associations to them and for police to target them to arrest them and then ultimately mostly to let them go are you know basically just they found them on street and they're trying to crack down on this perceived Mexican crimewave and so they bring him in for questioning and all factories everyone had to convert to this war state of war mentality in which we all needed to do nine because sometimes forget that it's not until the nineteen fifties and suburban association that the all these other white ethnic groups as enemies in this war were not the Germans and the Nazis the ones we were most afraid of At first were the Jackson are there were soldiers in the front lines who are sacrificing their lives and then there were people and what they called the Home Front wearing a fashion that was very stylish meaning that was interpreted at the time a state of total war that meant that everyone and everything was expected to contribute towards the war effort the idea that there is no truth to the idea that they were that these youths were unpatriotic they not community during the World War Two period and based on what you just said I've you know do you see the recognize sort of the irony of that are countries currently militarily involved in but World War Two was a very different situation it's what some historians call based on some research over half a million Latinos served in World War Two during the same period of time correct that is correct half and so they also took part in in this fashion that was spearheaded by African Americans okay so sorry you know we stopped making cars at the time and instead you know they would make vehicles more like GPS or gas masks or etc became white prior to that they didn't think of them as white the thought of them as Italians or Germans or Irish etc or Jewish only did they serve but they also earned a disproportionate number of congressional medal of honor during the war and in while history does not always repeat itself it does tend to rhyme where jazz and justice meat so with us on the show today is Geraldo Lincoln he is being An excess of material in excess of luxury when that material and that expense that Lean Latinos served in the US military About three hundred fifty three fifty to three hundred seventy five thousand of them Mexican Americans eight depression we didn't come out of the Great Depression until really we started the economy started working toward World War Two not to mention after after mexican-americans largest number were Puerto Ricans Rican Americans can Americans Mexican Americans Japanese Americans and people who were considered white ethnics at the idea that they were in fact patriotic part of it was just that these were mostly us born youth were part so in that context the idea that there were some youth some youth of color after a US citizen Mexican Americans who were drafted but even Mexican nationals who volunteered to join the US military during this time money in this luxury could have been spent on something toward the war effort and so that is how it was interpreted as and so these were youth that for the first time even more so than their parents for the previous decade were able to finally have some expendable of this period of time when the military and newspapers are considering zoot suit wears unpatriotic when the irony is at and then and then up to five hundred thousand combining everyone else so yeah there there there is no truth to this in fact unpatriotic I want to get back to what you just mentioned earlier with regards to the media coverage during this period of time regarding the but you'll riots and they found some old newspaper clippings from the L. A. Times and held express and any in time of hysteria I mean this is people would say fake news but in journalism it's really yellow journalism and it's mostly goals and again this is sort of one of the things that sort of fan the flames toward the actual zoot suit riots would happen later in in nineteen as it being unpatriotic it is my understanding that one of your main areas of expertise is chronicling that she amos and it did have devastating devastating consequences as a result correct absolutely absolutely yeah are providing the public with their idea of reality they just took it as fact that these were unpatriotic youth newspapers and that's where they get their sense of reality and so these newspapers that they believed were objective out of different news sources I mean are sort of journalism today you know has increasingly moved I think again in the direction of can you explain to people why does actual zoo suit the actual physical zoot suits the the clothing themselves was considered unpatriotic during press the opposite sex and so or wherever they're attracted to and so so yeah they they there is no truth to the idea that they were look at those articles now anyone from like a younger generation now look at these articles and they would just be mortified by some of the language sources This is before you know forget cable is before t- and so people's new sources are radio is it's it can be difficult for us to imagine today in a context where we have access to a lot income and their young people young people WanNa have a good time and and you know WanNa do what they can to I don't know look news commonly in newspapers during spring time they even would go so far to say that the zoot Sudras were communists during this this particular you know there's a divide or difference between Chicanos and Mexicans it's almost two different cultures I I know that you've covered this as well I've you know yellow journalism you know sort of the idea that that journalists are in impartial absurd hurt edge and so you know people would just call them Mexican not distinguishing between people who were actual so I want to know if you can make some distinctions primarily when it comes to language or in this case sort of slaying that Pacheco's us because used to to to describe both both chicanos and African Americans during this time the use of the Word Negro was approach of education so they definitely they were definitely very americanized now at the same time they saw hi how they were segregated they saw how they were discriminated against and they were segregated discriminated against because of their Mexican again it's not the same as that of of Mexico and for people who may not speaking speak Spanish they may be lost in this part of the conversation Mexican nationals and fluent in Spain the Spanish language and Mexican culture from these youth that were much more fluent that that needed to be taught a lesson you know another piece of irony here when it comes to accusing zoot suitors of this in US Culture and a lot of times in the English language almost certainly more so than Spanish language they're they're slang zero specific kind of slang but but in Los Angeles the the slang that Mexican American Pacheco's used there is no truth to the to the idea that they weren't patriotic there even Mexican nationals who also joined the US military not just of Mexican descent for the most part the when we're talking about but Yugoslavia's and you know they had just gone through the and at this time that were born in the US raised in the United States and especially in Los Angeles a lot of these us forty-three further up north in California the San Jose Mercury News did a commemoration back in two thousand and thirteen on the seventieth anniversary of the or anything like that you know it was it was sink or swim and assimilate you know an assimilation approach in Americanization occur time absolutely an important huge distinction You know there's there's Mexican American Silas California and looking at how how the culture evolved during but it does make a big difference because again you're accusing you know channels Gore basic Americans are being un-american during this NPR being quote unquote unpatriotic was is the fact that you know but you've got ch culture is not necessarily the same as Mexican culture scholarship that's been written about by Trucco's and the Zizi riots in the sleepy lagoon case have focused on Los Angeles during World War Two and what I servers reporting the news you know we've certainly moved away from that in recent decades but at this time there were not that many different news one of the things that happened is that when people refer to by Chico's as something that that was Mexican there were since I'm Salvadoran I've seen like law and order or ncis type of shows where they'll have some ms thirteen type of episode and the Bustle Betas and also looking at Tucson Arizona which is Kinda halfway between Paso in Los An- especially middle-class Mexicans in Los Angeles who distance themselves from these youth by saying well no the first half of the twentieth century and not just looking at during World War Two during nineteen forty two and forty three and even name sort of comes from El Paso Texas itself correct and that's that's actually what I focus on most of what's most youth did not have very good Spanish you know they had never been taught in Spanish you know back then they didn't have bilingual education I was actually much closer to African American jazz jive than it was to Mexican Gallo or there's there's different theories one of them is that or one of the most common ones is that when Tamala g or or the origins of this type of slang not knowing that it's purely an American type of slang you know and it has roots here even ELP El Paso by Chuka camera which was a lot more Spanish than Los Angeles Batticaloa which was a lot more and people from Mexico and see that whitest would go to El Paso they would nickname L. Bustle S. mainly in a place of all places El Paso Texas so can you explain how El Paso Texas plays a part in development of culture do is I write about the history and evolution of Patrick Culture looking at the border region of South Whitest it doesn't really have anything to do with Mexico but it turns out well there is some connection at least to the border region of both West San Mexico and that's where a bustle comes in so yes we start with with the name but Yuko that states and then live in Mexico until this date you know that thousands of people do that to go to school to shop or to work and so so in short what does it boss will have to do with it well during the zoot suit riots there was more African American jive yeah the Protocol Law is that is that type of slaying where you hear essay in and things like that it was called but truecar Gallo largest means slang in Spanish sometimes it's used to refer to chew callow which I can again today's the day for Dick and saving a kid a fire safety equipment now at the home depot more saving more doing us only I do not come from Mexico they do not come from the from the Mexican state of Betcha you know in that nature I've you know it's funny when I hear that sometimes on TV because it's it can be misused in most comical of ways for me so a chuckle and so these and some people till this day crossed the border every day and we're doing so one hundred years ago as well to go work in the have Salvadorans using but Chico and wherever the producers are just is is an example of them not knowing you know the so the people from Mexico would go on to trickle to chuckle but Chewco and so and so that's one of the theory as of how much people came to be why chuckle why would l. bustle be nicknamed the Truecar to begin with aw man molest in Bonn who who wrote that being done used to work for an electric company you know we unfortunately we don't we don't have a lot of ways of confirming if you know if this is the one way in which they got their names and that they would they would make illegal electrical connections for people you know to work off the clock and make these free your uh can you Claire Wisconsin this is a Latino meter collect ever gonNA take a quick break right here back with more than a minute stay tuned they also booty God and Basa was known as a place that would do all these things twinkle and you know the crooked or illegal and so then I'd have to whoa electrical connections are they charge so you wouldn't have to pay your electric bill to connect you straight to the electric electricity lines and aw but but such are the theories we're speaking with Harada cone he's an assistant professor in the program of Land American Studies at the University of Wisconsin dark chapter in California's history and it's something that it's still has reverberations even today one exist Dan you claire so let's get back to the actual riots itself because let's be very I guess blunt as to what it was which is why the white population in California during sign whether it be the military or in new in print media discriminating and margin day yes absolutely the there there have been there there have been Ellen Mc underscores show you could check us out on own website which is Latino collective dot com and of course live on WPF Wfan that orgy that's it or not during this time contribute to the further development of street gangs in southern California both during this period and as we see as we see them in recognized ooh youth gangs of all the ethnic and racial groups in you when we're talking about street gangs but so there were there were youth Mexican American youth gangs in their job is UPS WWL FM dot org once again this is Oscar Fernandes and we're talking about the zoot suit riots and how it could teach us about the anti immigrant using the disenfranchise in California at the time whether it'd be to African Americans Japanese Americans and like is really a very with a sneaky lagoon case and especially the zoot suit riots in June of Nineteen forty-three the result was that especially that were not like the street what we think of a street gang today at that time but with the zoot suit in Los Angeles lots of youth that were into a trigger culture and the wearing of the zoot suit above this and I wonder if you could you know explain this as possible but I want to know if the racist discrimination by the white population it's how ever those who they were also a minority of them who instead got entrenched in it dement that we see today and we're speaking Lequan who's in assistant professor in the program of Land American Studies at the University of Wisconsin there were some who instead ended up getting criminalized and sort of embracing these you know they didn't use the gang the word gang had a different connotation you know in different points in history than than it does today in their neighborhoods and so so well for most you know while most distance themselves from that most of them in Los Angeles moved away from that style after the suits your rights because they didn't want to be associated with these negative things Americans in Los Angeles in one thousand nine hundred forty three moved away from that style as a result of the right at the mainstream media were saying about them that they're unpatriotic and that their juvenile delinquency and and so forth so most Mexican that that Chuka came from El Chico Trek Oh and then Pachuco and melchu-khe oh and so forth so the ones when the police were you know trying to crack down on these youth and throw them in jail well that just hardened them you know that just the things that they were saying about them it is also as a result of the zoo riots that we start getting a new style you know and so there's definitely this influence of you know these ideas of what's patriotic of what's considered like the military US history you know there there have always been youth groups youth gangs La Guardia on you're listening to Latino collective yawn WPF w eighty nine point three FM Washington reminding everyone that you can follow us on twitter under the name at do that in the military yeah you know they when we're by Chico's was kind of a weakness have long hair because they could gravitas of of Mexican American street wear or fashion it's at this point that they start instead of they said made them you know when they would write about them in the newspapers is tough street gang members you know some of them like that and liked the nor not rioting that came with that you know gave them a degree of of attention and respect and notoriety we're going to wear white t shirts like the military wears we're gonNA crease at our pants are shirts like some of them learned you know if they're saying we're unpatriotic well we're gonNA wear Khakis you know the similar to what the military wears it sort of implies that zoot suit themselves were the aggressors of of the rights of nine hundred forty three as we said before it was research of course I would google things and you put zoot suit riots and sometimes you'll get something that would mention but Yuka riots and very what's not and they adopted some of those yet it's something that we still see today unfortunately and it it always bothered me because I always felt in the back of my head that sort of a misnomer to call these rights zoot suit riots because but but that it just didn't catch on you know and so they've been stuck with the zoot suit riots for the most part sometimes where the US Navy at the time absolutely there unfortunately efforts to rename it something else second war you know when when in reality it was you know a US war of invasion you know to take half of Mexico have simply not been successful and I think it's it it has to do with power it has to do with WHO has the power to name things vice versa and so it it always seemed to me like but Toco Slash Tsutsui regards to the riots of nineteen forty three almost seemed interchangeable showbiz Rabin by itself this small community back in the day has the story in and of itself that's also equally darken equally complex doing this And so here we call it the zoot suit riots which implies that the zoot suits are to blame when it was and who doesn't you know and so there have been efforts to call it like the civil servicemen's riots for example I don't know the Korean War the Vietnam War the Cuban embargo you know all these things the sometimes they refer to it as the Max servicemen like you said especially sailors and the thousands of civilians who helped them out as well hi it's with the anti-immigrant sentiment that we see in the US today there's so many headlines Right now even as we speak with regards to migrant detention center the hair and cut off ducktail or DA haircut Instead you know we're GonNa Shave our heads like they do when we enter boot Camp X.'s well but with that said do you feel like it's a misnomer to say it's zoot suit riot call data such when again the instigators were and it's proliferate to certain other parts of the world as well unfortunately now this does here's here's an interesting question here when I was doing history of naming things in a way that privileges that that who the person the people who are giving it the name you know if you think of they'll to me has to do with criminalization has to do with with turning something that is not a crime into Dan this is what I or it's the the US embargo against Cuba you know but we call it the Cuban embargo in most people assume that must mean you know Cuba here's the conditions which in which they live the way immigrants are treated in these in these militarize centers I wonder if you could something that that we treat as criminal and so in in nineteen forty two and forty three that was the wearing of fashion and that is a perfect segue to the next question the million dollar question which is you know if you could draw any parallels or any lessons between zoot suit outside country as what we see today or in the case of the zoot suit rise forty-three the military itself directly marginalizing me there were efforts by the United States government to ban the manufacture of zoot suits and they did and there was there were efforts in Los Angeles to make the wearing of zoot suit punishable by thirty days in jail of a trickle riots a zoot suit rights for the most part but but that's that's very standard practice in us. I try to do that making zoot suit the only a fashion that was ever outlawed by US policy it was a US naval reserve armory in shevess Rabin who were the main instigators of the rise of nine hundred forty three in the first place and which by the way before yesterday question a marginalized group perceiving a group that does not have a lot of political or economic power and being the aggressor against a marginalized group for me. That's the that's the parallel but I want to get your your thoughts on this if if you see similar so so criminalization is definitely one it's this idea of perceiving a a also others as well absolutely there there are several one of the one of the main ones that stand ah public sense of a Mexican crimewave which by the way was completely manufactured we've gone back and confirmed that this was down on this perception of Mexican crimewave so their reaction to the sleepy lagoon incident of arresting hundreds so with this perception the district attorney of the State of California had told Los Angeles police authorities to crack in to justify their continued criminalization and so not only are they criminalized but they're but they're ends up being a section of the public thinks not the case in fact there was a slight decline in juvenile delinquency among Mexican Americans while in general there have been a slight incline. This is not enough we need to do more and hence the vigilant t actions like zoot suit riots bat police authorities were cracking down on this person this alleged Mexican crimewave Mexican-american crimewave and instead of we need to take matters into our own hands and go you know quote unquote teach them a lesson ourselves so yeah the parallels are later here in and that's militarization whether it's military the militarized approach towards other people of Color people from it parallels because the parallels I draw between what's going on now and what's going on what what happened back in nineteen forty three and I think it's common denominator of Mexican American Youth of having the sleepy lagoon case and publicising it in the newspapers this was all supposed to be an effort at demonstrating naming this and whose voice is being put in the media disproportionately put a lot of blame also on the media the cease Gorby your does not match reality as a whole and hopefully people won't have to wait or sit on a hand for seventy six years to look back on how he says palm the held express and the L. A. Times at the time so just hysteria over a Mexican crime way did not match the actual government records during this media is distorting the reality of what we see today you know you know we're almost out of time one thing you've instead of the people the public feeling more at ease it had the opposite effect the public instead said okay this is a groin problem on a mention here and this is something I wanna give credit for we should give a lot of credit to Edward James Olmos for making perhaps two of the best films

United States Washington California Los Angeles Mexican American Youth Oscar Fernandes Home Depot Kibera Oscar Fernandez Komo Tommy Edward James Olmos twitter Hawaii Gene L. AMC
Undocumented and LGBTQ (Part 7)

Latino Rebels Radio

58:18 min | 4 months ago

Undocumented and LGBTQ (Part 7)

"Hey this hulu latino rebels radio and we're getting into the holidays and at fukudome media that means winter break. We're on winter break. Who i wou. Who'd although we're gonna be out. We have some amazing content lined up for you from our good friends. At the latino media collective who are the guest host of the show when let's rebels radio decides to take a break but before that let's listen to our sponsor you're probably don't feel like sitting in a waiting room right now right. Don't worry planned parenthood's got you covered as a leader in using new technologies to provide quality healthcare in ways at feet your life through planned. Parenthood's virtual appointments. You can get high quality affordable care your way by phone or video trusted providers. They're gonna listen. They're going to give information and support you in all your health care decisions. Planned parenthood's telehealth appointments are high quality affordable and private. Just like in person visits whether you need help with birth control a prescription refill or other sexual or reproductive care services. Skip the waiting room and get the care you need when you need it planned. Parenthood takes the stress out of healthcare and is ready when you are so check out planned parenthood dot org slash rebels to learn more in book virtual appointment. That's planned parenthood dot org slash rebels. This week's episode. From the latino media collective is part of an ongoing undocumented in lgbtq series that. We've actually been running on latino rebels. Radio liked to think like close to a year even over a year. So we're really happy that they're continuing the series here. You go the latino media. Collective on revelry league from took think meetings greetings greetings you demille's channel in washington in all points beyond this is oscar fernandez. And you're listening to latino media collective recorded at the studios. Wpf w eighty nine point three. Fm washington. edgy to columbia here in this friday november thirteen th two thousand twenty also. Check us out on our website. Which is latino media. Collective dot com goes follows on twitter and the name at llc underscores show that is at llc underscores show and of course live on the up of wwl fm dot org. That's w. w. fm dot org once again. This is oscar fernandez. And today on his show we add a new chapter two are undocumented and lgbtq series the caravan with caravan the marginalized group within the marginalized group. And we have the pleasure. Today of having on the show with us. Oscar lopez whose decio and national casey director of boroughs which is based in the rio grande valley in texas. He joins us over the phone. Today is a pleasure and honor. Welcome to show oscar lopez you very very much and i appreciate meeting my long lost cousin. Oscar fernandes mundus. So we'll get mandates a pleasure to have have you with us today we've done this undocumented in. Lgbtq series on the latino collective times in the last few years we've covered what lgbtq grassroots movements have done in places such as arizona and california just to name a few places we've never done texas and this is certainly an important parts of the country as it pertains to lgbtq asylum seekers coming from latin america among other places so to begin. Let's talk about first of all your organization but it also tell us about your organization here. Sure so i personally am latino aboard and in the model spectacle mahyco in mosey I grew up on a farm on this side of the border. Brownsville texas and i am not only unapologetically Latino panic he. I know that I'm also unapologetic about the queer and brown So what what. I had this in my thirty years of service in public health here in this region when i was eighteen. Nineteen twenty in my early twenties. Then new york where. I spent over a decade Is that there. There weren't any organizations that were that were. We're lgbt focus of latino. And if they were they were largely underfunded. Their work was not respected. Because it didn't have the funds to find researchers to prove that their interventions to help people were working and so a lot of them went went under Soon after opening. So we're we're hoping not the case for us but then again would you take opening up in january. Twenty twenty right before and they went nationwide and It's been a rough year. They don't like you've heard fighting the good fight trying to get healthcare. Active and raise awareness of the needs of the lt hugh community is largely. Let down eighty nine percent hispanic community of one point. Two million people fighting the good fight is certainly necessary. Especially when lives are at stake and decimal different in the rio grande valley so with regards to you both the organization and also the lgbtq community in this part of country on. Could you explain to us or describe to us. Somebody challenges faced by the community in a place such as the rio grande valley so many valley. It's it's hardly ever noticed nationwide except that we we tend to get hit by her kings off. So that's when we make the news because we're right on the gulf of mexico We are right on on the us side of the river that mortals and And one other cities around the other side And we have a beach. That many many people have heard about especially spring breakers. It's called south padre island so that's the one time that would not majority of of people in the in the valley. We're more caucasian for about two months. And then they all get We're like in agra agricultural community Still a lot of farmers a lot of farmland island farmer but we have twenty two cities in this region. Have one million people. Each city has its own school. District has its own police department even to the city's tiny with has its own officials. Because i think that the people who want to be able to govern themselves and so we'd be a lot stronger. We were one large city that we're we're broken down into twenty cities Within that community we have about one hundred forty four thousand people living in s. And you don't know what a colonia as colonia with most commonly known in english as a shantytown because what's happened over the years is as farmers Had areas of the band their property that tentative light and therefore wouldn't be able to grow anything Whether it be fruit trees or sugar cane or or sort of cotton those things that are coming down here So let planes and they set divided into very small sections Not not like one acre lots or anything and may sell them to our immigrant communities. Monday thing that condition that you miss a month or two at us all your property and everything else on it and put into it so people will buy at have bought these little pieces of land and then they usually start by navy put in time little trailer home or larvae other. They're lucky otherwise. They start building from the scrap of material at construction sites. So talk and would and Aluminum and things like that Eventually you know in their homes and as their family comes to the country or their family is here. They needed to their feet. Their homes That there isn't a tricky there. There's no any water. There's no sewage. There are no paved roads so we have a hundred and forty four thousand people living grade and forty low. Yes In this region and Every time it rains the children it out to go to school If you're lucky. And you have electricity your generator. You're hopefully everybody's best friend and you run wires. Electric wires to other people's homes but once it starts this scene television. There's no incident so during this. Kobe pandemic where so many people so many parents are having to work with their kids at school At school you're at home That's impossible to do has again. There's no internet. You don't have access to the teachers. There's no like learning so so. What are the things that was happening down here. In the valley when trump was at its worst with his anti mexican anti immigrant. rhetoric. Was i Trucks the the. The vehicles use is Worth often stationed out. Ahead of the colonia entrances so not only people isolated and unable or scared to pass to do them to go to school or go to work but There are no grocery stores near yes so there was a lack of food of and and other other things it's just medical care and it was an intimidation factor. Basically just made it to to keep you put in place during that time. Or trump again was at his worse with the border patrol agents at the high school. Football games going to do this. This dams at the stadiums asking people to show their citizenship to their And they were. They release while the kids are playing football So it it's been a pretty rough road as far as trump is concerned but we're talking about the colonia so we have the very very poor and we have some communities that are extremely filthy rich with multi million dollar homes just a few miles away. flatland With a lot of of water water areas and River right by many many of us And growing up. It was not uncommon to be working on the farm with my dad. And you see his workers coming across the river literally walking across to to work in the field and then at the end of day they would walk at That has all changed many years before trump came here because we did have a border wall and what people don't realize that yes. He experimented with a lot of different version of a wild or whatever he never built more than four hundred miles worth and we're talking the need for a hundred times that amount if that's what he really wants to do is to Put up put up a real sort of border defense instead. What he did was he. took Barbed wire and not just about bar that you put on farms that the one with razor blades on them to keep people from crossing over and they put that right near the bridges were a lot of the asylum seekers who are here from central america from all over mexico escaping common escaping food shortage because of global warming escaping the cartel Normally normally these people would have come across the river. asked for asylum that get a court hearing and traditionally for the last ten years about ninety eight percents of every side and seeker makes it back to their appointment in court a year later. No matt for him because either family is back to ground zero or harbinson for mcallen a three largest cities. They may get a court they now. They were being forced to sleep on the streets of mexico and in other large cities in mexico on imported town sheep on the street until americans and mexicans worked together to create encampments for them to try and provide them with safety in some sort of sense of security It's it's been. It's been horrendous down here. In terms of our people treated and all our people not just cue community but they've had it harder because now they're they at the. Oh back in the closet back into hiding it. You will not open about their orientation. Because homophobia transphobia in our community is is is rampant and it it comes from a place of a lack of education and and catholicism and and not a beer of any kind of danger just fear of something that is considered wrong And so are there steps and measures have to be taken by volunteers to to provide safe haven for those members who are trans especially Because of harassment violence and rape and things of that nature At one point on the other side of our river here brownsword motorist mexico There were three thousand. People are living in a park near the bridge. International bird and originally. We started off with three hundred people within weeks. Turn into a thousand a few weeks after that it was three thousand and so we had a group of volunteers called team brownsville. And they've been there's this had op shootout at a volunteer provide education who provide healthcare cetera. Team brown's oh and and the lgbtq community was a big contributor to them Buying food donating money that was raising private. Cetera would go every morning like at six in the morning to provide. Everybody was breakfast. I apples and then in the evenings go back and and serve them out of ice chests a warm meal of rice and beans and whatever else they could afford And it wasn't until we got the three thousand point mark and nobody knew how to feed three thousand people that lovely amazing world chefs who pulled out of trump's hotel. Thank god in defeat He and his team came down and and taught folks How to cook three thousand people and they erected a tent with seating thousand people because before that everybody was leading outside regardless of inclement weather or condition. So it it. It's it's a community that takes care of itself and and loves all of its people regardless of immigration status of we we tend to always vote will in our region but unlike most of us again a lot of the has to do with round people. Here ekos don't forget i And we're very very proud of that yen. Let's reiterate again the importance of fighting the good fight because organizations like put it also whether lgbtq are otherwise need to places like the rio grande valley because he just painted a very striking picture of the challenges face by residents of the rio grande valley. And it's it just shows that you know more supporters needed especially during this this pandemic that is still going at the moment. And it's still important for for the ones you just mentioned team. Brownsville gen texas pandemic We are because of the region the amount of people that have We are also medically underserved community so there's not stuck around for the About one put you in the people that live here tv in the twin cities so the pandemic has been catastrophic for us that the number of deaths that number of infections has been really high all the migrant farm workers and people that work in at slaughter houses because they have not been Allowed to do any social distancing. Yes they miss work because they feverish. They feel sick that means to come to work potentially for others. They're not provided with math. So they were there bandannas which you listen to the doctor about she help. But it's not at all they're up. There was to be still taking the foods. The vegetables that the rest of america Going completely unnoticed in terms of very their health and their the we'll speak give going on notice One example that really bears worth mentioning during this show. Regards to the rio grande valley ayubi. Lgbtq community and the challenges they face is the case of kimberly avila so for those who may not know. Can you tell us who kimberly is. Sure is A young person that Hails from brownsville texas Her family is it was all their her. Her sister was all kimberly. I believe Was thirty two when she went missing. Three years ago and compelling were assigned male at birth and In her late twenty start to experiment with with her female side dressing as a woman largely on the weekends of her parents. Never questioned These are folks who you think would have an issue with it. They didn't because at the end of the day. This was their child child's so Her older sister would cover to downtown areas. Where that's embarrassed and should evening that always make it home before curfew and as far as the closing and three years ago on a saturday Evonne her softer off in downtown area area of low. She abandoned stores that used to be where everyone went shopping. When i was a child. Good like many border towns. Although stores supreme itch abandoned She went to a local bar there. And that's where his sister draw and the next morning they woke up and she wasn't home which had never happened before they were another day. Cut collier own. No answer and that's the way it's been now for three years Which is really the I became aware of it because we have a brown so office That that does hiv testing and Charissa thompson and her mother taping pliers on my windows outside when looked at them. Have you seen The person that had her just and actually appeared at kimberly and also asks her her images from when she was Male and out phone number to call or you know fair formation. We decided we that. How can we help you. And they were in tears they said the collegial copying they couldn't get a meeting of the chief every answer either questions so Has one of them is the tq community. The first thing i did was i organized a press conference and We had a shot of how many people showed up that. It's not a community that leaves us people we we rarely have missing persons And she had gone missing and there were twenty three reporters every newspaper. You can imagine In spanish language television media radio also up far press conference and the family pleaded for folks to help them find child At the very beginning in year one compounded their pronouns back and forth between he and Release apps three they referred to kimble's and asked somebody their daughter back This had happened once around the same time where young woman who disappeared from the mcdonald's parking lots and we've been a matter of days was one hundred thousand dollar reward. Her body was found unfortunately She she'd been told that the parents were able Come to terms with bury their child. Men that has been afforded to kimberly. I'll be less family The gay community is a very poor community Five thousand dollars at occupy them and And then finally in at the beginning year three three arousal crime stoppers unit matched tara five thousand dollars with five thousand more. That's sort of what became thousand that again say about a community that comes up with one hundred thousand dollars for a fifth gender female with young email but only crime stoppers will come up with five thousand martin and we're offering ten thousand. What how we value a trans life versus gender And and that's been hard on all of us Myself and my team. It also organized a a website based simple one for now coke kimberly Dot org Where you can go and see her images see phone number for by bronco crime. Stoppers tells you how you can donate money and more on her story of but that isn't making national news and it should but women of color who are trends are killed in very large numbers nationwide and it's not getting attention. It's a we're going to take a break right here but before we do. I just want to say that with almost every show that we've done and as undocumented q series. There's almost one. Kimberly ariella type case that we need to address and it stands the more reason why we do these sort of programs because cases like those of kimberly avenue not only deserve our attention but they did serve justice as well so right. Now we've been speaking with oscar lopez ceo national advocacy director for puerto sauce which is based in the rio grande valley in texas. This is a latino media collective here on. Wpf eighty nine point three fm washington. We gotta take a quick break right here back with more minute. Stay tuned talk off. Oh bit took took took L. a. sunshine. You're listening to latino collective yawn. Wpf w eighty nine point three fm washington. Reminding everyone did. You could check us out on on website. Which is latino. Meter collective dot com. You can also follow us on twitter and in the name at l. m. underscores show and of course live on fm that word jesus wpf w fm dot org once again. This is oscar fernandez. And you're listening to part seven commented and lgbtq series it caravan within the caravan and we're with oscar lopez who's the ceo and national advocacy director for potter does which is based in rio grande valley in texas so oscar. I want to ask you two things here. Because i think this is another example of the unique challenges face by the community in the rio grande valley and one of them. Is you know we just mentioned the pandemic passing. But i think we should go into more detail on the that as to one. How does the pandemic maiden more difficult to stay in touch with lgbtq asylum seekers. who have been deported. And to because i think these two maybe connected but how does either you. Your organization ord other organizations in that region deal with you know we're if the other issue of isolation which which is an issue it seems to me sort of flies regards to lgbt the decree q. Community in this country. That's a huge loaded question with lots of different responses robin trying them all in there The pandemic has serious very hard because As lower income let the notre evidence and think many of us live multi generational homes and because traditionally of we've seen our neighbor take their mothers to a nursing home and as they depart. We looked at each other. We will never do that to our mothers and we don't put it must So grandma's and grandpa's delivered with us until until the last days And as do mothers fathers their children and their children's children because teen all an issue where not only do not teach sex education comprehensive sex. I do states that. If at is disgusted all in texas does not have to be accurate or science. Based so my no surprised. Do we have a teen pregnancy issue. that along with a lack of access to reproductive healthcare. Thanks to our last four years of republican rain. All that fed the lgbtq community had suffered because many of our members are not out to their families so their only outlet had been in the past on the weekend to go out with their gay friends for local gay bar. Bingo feel part of the community be so And be out but for whatever reason many are not comfortable in their homes have been threatened with you know minority be gay or verifying out. You're gay you're out of here that kind of thing You know we're we're deeply rooted within our topic and The pope has just come forward and said civil unions Are are are a good thing for gay couples straight out And as no pope ever has about Are acting in god's children. Well but but i'll tell you it's been very hard for the gay community because they were already feeling isolated and now they're more isolated because they choose to go out. They put their grandmother at risk. And that'd be forgivable I'll give you one example of how catholic we are I is the first ever gay pride down in this region back in two thousand thirteen after coming back from new york city and where we live for from the years and when we come back realized that there were no no gay organizations no gain anything and so Myself a member of a small p. flagged chapter and a member of the so all democrats along with a member of a christian church. Mount calvary christian church got together. There was a very small church at the time. And we said we gotta do something so. We organized that event at a public park in harlington texas in the middle of this region. Probably any valley at three o'clock in the afternoon we had the entry would be three dollars. And we set it up like a mess which is traditionally what a church carnival affect the booth and cotton chambi games for the kids and they thinking and shallow pileup how we always have to have looked at the wins a blender or something to take home and the world around. And we're always looking towards the gate to stephen cars. We're coming and there was nothing at about three ten the first car role. They were too nervous to get out of their car Until two or three more cars shut up and then people started to get out of their cars and come in By eight thirty three forty we had about three hundred people gathered there and they were nervous with how we had. Police set up because in case it was showed in or any threat but there was nothing people were were comfortable. They were mingling Everybody kept looking behind back when they knew that we have protected them. Back brew from your one. Twenty thirteen to two thousand people in twenty fourteen to five thousand people in twenty fifty High of fifteen. Then we went to nine thousand and last year when we rented Mcallen convention center which is the largest commission out the whole convention center. We gave festival. We had Workshop on their power than coming out of school and getting gay straight alliances on their campuses going on at the same time has paul girls were on the stage for performing one hundred benders all of the regions howling there whereas is giving away. They're started in vote. If in thousand people showed up over the two day period And many of them were were clear. L. jimmy Many of them were gay but they brought their mothers of the grandmothers to play at yes which was so happening there. They were drag queen. Storytelling our the corner of Of the facility and it was just so beautiful to see that blend of grandmothers and mothers and children but the one thing that always brings. The house down in a beautiful is every year. The bishop has sent to me when i piss priests who takes the stage and get the microphone midway through of the a saturday and Sessile he is that he's a catholic priest with such church and then he begins to ask for forgiveness On behalf of the church for everything the churches done that has hurt the gay community He said he will say that. You recognize that. Need all god's children and they'd never should have been caused any hurt or pain. But on behalf of the church she apologizes any says god named exactly as you are perfect and god is and that's he says this you look into the crowd and there's fifty thousand mexicans crying because it got it's not what we've grown up hearing and That traditionally happens here too and And especially in your three when we also recognize the sh- even think in florida at the both my but it's been so important that our community here that they're normal Because the right answer these things what's happened is the birth of all these new slow. Lgbt organizations carrying For asylum-seekers People at chapters organizing on campuses joining pair and the farmworkers. That's this move by marching with them hand in hand knowing that we we've gotta get each other's back so while we are very devoutly catholic very mexican on the border. We are very very progressive in in in this lgbt. Bit because of the way we've done it i think The one downside and it's a huge one unfortunately is that because we are border town. There is a lot of drugs that are traffic through here. The way to the rest of the country and the largest and most profitable drug right math purcell maths at all. Most of it makes it to the east and west coast. A lot of it stays here and so we have a large met epidemic within all communities in the united states especially those on in border towns one out of every three new cases of hiv come from math related activities and once you're addicted to meth and the things that happened when you're on meth and having sex. It's very hard to stay home on a saturday night or friday because of myself and we've had to create posters and campaign to promote them on our website that also stuttered their free for anybody to download the back bat day crew. That basically say you know is hooking up hype west. Grandma's wife And is this social distancing and it shows the cartoon gay couple getting it on because people where their mask all day long while at their work. They'll we'll get home. They take it off and a greek family. The family may come midnight the desires there. The drug is available and people will leave their homes. Put an an only put themselves at risk but then come back to the multigenerational home and accidentally kill gama And that's a horrible thing. Bet it's also conditioned of how far we are conditions who live in and the lack of access to reduce the thirties. the fact that i don't know yet how to deal with crystal meth and that up until recently how department of public health regulations weren't talking about this epidemic and it took us to hold the first national weather and are on this about five hundred people from all over the us that run organizations for the first time about the and what this does to your body. How she's my french. But how forty eight makes you at. How much of makes you want to have sex and sex little difference and how effective it is And it was. It was a border town community organizations. That has to do it because it wasn't being done and at least now it become part about national conversation. Which again we're very proud of that. Under circumstances of course in addition to all of this there's another unique thing that happening in the rio grande valley that is also worth mentioning during the course of this conversation. Can you tell us those who may not know the for those who may not know what is less lethal. The la bunket in the rio grande valley or something were supporting You can find them on facebook under a square leader and get which means the school on the sidewalk So with three thousand people that were seeking asylum And the numbers have dwindled down even given up or some of them have cheats asylum But there were so many and there are still so many children amongst those those asylum-seekers because fathers did not just their countries alone. They brought their lives. They brought their children about their grandchildren and they lived in the makeshift tents. That they made they lived in tents that we made for them. They receive wonderful care from global monster. Doctors were stationed there. We know that there Kobe free because they stay with their their their community It's rough going me with the hurricane. Hits all their tents lost away. All their personal belongings got washed away and they slept admired for for weeks on end until we get round up enough money to buy more tense. And what have you. There's this little group called When he fell on that which is made up of retired teachers. It's headed up by two of my favorite people I grew up with these people in my church David lucille And they were team. Grounds provide all the food and the shelter and and and the protections organized less kalita. And it's this to folks you lose yours and retired teachers from this region as retired teachers and teachers from other parts of the country who have taken vacations and instead of resting or laying on the beach chain down here every sunday. They teach school to the children at the at the asylum. And it's literally on the sidewalk a lot of talk of a lot of Poster board and markers we all donate book I have about seventy books in my kitchen right. Now that i bought that i could drop off So they're gonna english and spanish And if i if kinder- all the way through six six as an older that they're getting education because sit there in in that kind of makeshift shelter at times For a year on end if not longer With without access to feeling like a child without access to school or any learning more inhumane. So they'll have order they look them up s khalifa which we school one of the sidewalks. Fantastic thank you for sharing that. This is precisely why we want to cover the rio grande valley in texas. Because of things like that. I wanna ask you real briefly because we're almost out of time. I want to ask you the same question. Invest previous guests with regards to this undocumented. And they'll gb t q series. And that's the issue of homophobia and transphobia. It's one thing when it's projected by non latino americans we've seen that in every way shape or form for out the country. It's quite another thing about how to deal with it when it's coming from within the immigrant community. So how do you deal with with those cases. Because let's be honest you know there's a reason why. Lgbtq migrants are coming from central america in places like mexico because it's either normalized or institutionalized from the top down and so how do you deal with that you know when it comes from within the immigrant community when it's been normalized within the community. Well we're we're violence and especially sexual. Violence has been normalize so the amount of women who've been rate The amount of women a both women and trans women who've been forced into prostitution A of that is what has caused intact families to flee for to grab their children for husbands to their wives and children and then to bring them to the or at least we'd try to Most recently we had to We the community. Not not me individually the community how to in mexico motos the city there had to find a a a low rent apartment to put any trans woman in and and one of the people that to care because she'd been raped again and because Because there's that brett of exploitation as well of while you're here you're gonna work you ever work for this or that It it's it's misogyny at it's worse because directed at both of fifth announces within. It's about the violence inflicted upon them a disfiguring face that cutting off their limbs or or or parts of the body the destruction and and pain caused to the bad areas or directives It is. I will say about racism the hatred of where it's the missile janie. That is the worst. Ben comes of the homophobia and transphobia With you know is is is universally all of latin america. But i don't want people to get wrong impression that you could. Supposedly the monterey fear is You know the allowed all these cities. They're driving wonderful. Ltv tq trinity's because we're there is education. There is progress. Yes where there's a lack of education or concerted effort to oppress people and to keep education away from them. That's where the violence comes in for all people and they kickoff the smaller communities. I but everybody is horrible and so mexico is a fantastic beautiful country beautiful city and region but but the combination of taking the lord's words and using them are people which is not the intention behind any of those words To use those words to justify The the killing of of so many members of our community is not acceptable and that latinos know that. Especially that happen to be now in the united states and and our community now loves it. appreciation supports its get scared unity. You i haven't heard about a single case violence. I can't believe were missing and glad that the worst case scenario situation that you don't hear bassey and things of that nature peop 'cause people learn what did you find your voice. This no shuttle you up once you find your voice and you find out of a pencil away. A way to express yourself where they'd be out of or or at the supermarket. There's no messy with you. It's only they've managed to oppress you and keep you so down that you feel alone that they know and unfortunately you know that they are now in control. And there's there's a lot of that happening throughout central america Which is a big part of why we had the asylum-seekers coming in such great numbers. And how many of them were these members of the lgbtq community where we're almost out of town we have about two minutes left. And i can tell you that we could continue this conversation forever because we have so much more things to hit on with the rio grande valley but we have about two minutes left so before we let you go one one if you give everyone once again the website afford it also also you could take this time as well to mention any other organizations or websites within the rio grande valley that also deserve recognition in our attention as well. And what else do you hope. People learn from your work from potatoes. You know during the courses of conversation. Sure i want that. We are on the national league here. Come i mean who would have thought this organization on the border with the nasa leader bringing attention to the issues of of crystal meth and hiv We are the subject of various new documentary. That will be going national 'cause we have a podium and we're taking advantage of it but i people also remember not only dot org. Please look on facebook jim. Brown team. P. am brownsville and Let's see if you can spare five dollars ten dollars a one hundred dollars. Do christmas dried those that money. You'd be surprised. Mexicans can construct dollar. Could we can feed a family of ten on ten dollars so could attribute where you can get your your heart challenges you to do. Send help and send love. Because it's it's an isolated area that that made national support and thank you for allowing this to you can have this time with your thank. Y'all absolutely once again. The website is put it also tells dot org gets p. o. d. r. o. s. o. s. dot org so that say we've been speaking with oscar lopez he's a seal and national advocacy director for it. Also which is based in the rio grande valley in texas so once again. Thank you very much for your time. Oscar lopez to take care of yourself you women and thank you very much with that said that as infant today show. We want to thank everyone for listening today. Show you can check out this episode in our previous episodes on own website. which is latino media. Collective dot com. You can follow us on twitter name at l. mc underscores show that at mc underscores show. And of course live on wpf w fm dot org so on behalf. My co producer. Abby roberts is is also fernandez. Thank you very much everyone for listening to show. We're going to end the show today with a song from rio for the undocumented and lgbtq series so once again thank you very much once again. Everyone for listening. That's it for today. Show at your service chow. And from all of latino rebels radio fudo media just want to wish you a happy and healthiest policies. Stay safe out there. Quasi goal plex of see quasi ethics without him. Mobile alley says choose solutions. Slow through saying do bad. Jesus talk to quasi. Do i do those to see tokyo ma phone.

rio grande valley oscar fernandez oscar lopez texas mexico kimberly Oscar lopez decio national casey Oscar fernandes washington Brownsville harbinson brownsville llc rio grande valley ayubi
The Political Legacy of Diego Maradona

Latino Rebels Radio

1:02:01 hr | 3 months ago

The Political Legacy of Diego Maradona

"Hey it's julia. From tino rebels radio. We're getting into the holidays and at food media which produces latino rebels radio that means winter break. So we're still out until the new year. But we have some amazing content lined up for you from our amazing friends at the latino media collective. I consider our guest host of latino rebels radio when we decide to take a break but before that. Let's listen to our sponsor you're probably don't feel like sitting in a waiting room right now right. Still worry planned. Parenthood's got you covered as a leader in using new technologies to provide high quality healthcare in ways at feet your life through planned. Parenthood's virtual appointments. You can get high quality affordable care your way by phone or video trusted providers. They're gonna listen. They're going to give information and support you in all your health care decisions. Planned parenthood's telehealth appointments are high quality affordable and private. Just like in person visits whether you need help with birth control a prescription refill or other sexual or reproductive care services. Skip the waiting room and get the care you need when you need it planned. Parenthood takes a stressed out of healthcare. And is ready. You are so check out planned. Parenthood dot org slash rebels to learn more and book a virtual appointment. That's planned parenthood dot org slash rebels. Okay so this week's episode from the latino media collective act so excited to share. This one is on the political legacy of diego. Maradona like the greatest soccer player. Ever come at me. That's what i'm saying so fantastic show. I'm so glad they shared this one with us so here. They are the latino media. Collective on rebel. Tweet took took why not experience. Greetings greetings greetings. Euboea miniature told me interscope in washington and all points beyond this is oscar fernandes. And you're listening. To latino media collective recorded at the studios are wpf w eighty nine point. Three fm washington dc. Cto columbia hearing this friday december. Four two thousand twenty were also heard on own website which is latino medical dot com. You also find us on twitter and the name at l. Amc underscore show that his at llc underscores show and of course live on wpf wfan or jets wpf w fm dot org once again. This is oscar fernandez and today on the show. We put the spotlight on the passing of argentinian. Football legend diego maradona. Not so much is well documented exploits on the soccer field that made him popular but instead the person that became the idol working class throughout the world was diego maradona flawed. Human being yes. He was all human. Beings are flawed. And we all make mistakes in our lifetime because life is about progress not perfection. So today's show on the eagle don't is not about the shortcomings of his human character but rather how he went beyond the limitations of the impoverished environment that he grew up in and how he never forgot where he came from. Along the way to becoming a famous football level he spoke out for the working class. In a variety of ways on a variety of issues in a variety of countries the famous uruguayan writer eduardo galeano once wrote that because of all of his imperfections as a human being he was quote the dirtiest of all the gods and quote because he was so close to the people he was close to the people of his native argentina to the people of napoli to the people of cuba to the people of palestine. Just to name a few places. And you don't have to take my word for it. Just look through social media and the outpouring of grief and praise from our donor that goes beyond the commercialize. Big business world a professional football so today. Let's discuss. What may diego. Maradona an idol of the working class throughout the world. And so today on the show. We have the pleasure. And the honour of having dave's 'iran who's the sports editor for the nation magazine host of the edge of sports podcast and the co host of w w collision with eaton thomas which you can hear under ups w thursday's or anytime on wpro w fm dot org. He joins us today over. The phone is a pleasure and honor tabby on the shell dave zairean. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me is good to have you with us today and it's been a whirlwind of emotions both for me personally requested passing donor. Because i don't know what to began its Figures that for me personally. I thought we would continue to live on in a way. He'll continue to do so. But you know we started this program by quoting water galeano and you wrote not one but two articles in the nation magazine on the donor and the first one did you did. Last week. Actually called it galliano as well. So let's begin their liberate on what you call it from galeano last week because you know for no other reason that it's a shame that gagliano is not alive. Today to perhaps best crystallize the importance of madonna nominee in the world and he probably best crystallize this. This passing perhaps a better than the both of us combined. Yeah i mean. I guess i would start just by reading the words of galliano about diego. Maradona eduardo gagliano is just the absolute master of words. Somebody who can make poetry and prose intertwined with one another and produce something perfect but this is what had wow diano wrote about diego maradonna that i quoted. He's written a great deal about maradonna. But this is what i quoted. No one can predict the devilish tricks. This inventor of surprises will dream up for the simple joy of throwing the computers off track. Trixie never repeats. He's not quick more like a short legged bull but he carries the ball so into this foot and he's got is all over. His body is acrobatics. Light up the field in the frigid soccer of the end of the century which detest defeat and forbids all fund. That man was one of the few prove that fantasy can be efficient and inside that praise of maradonna. somebody who's as the ball sewn to his split because gagliano put so expertly. Of course you know in that statement is a critique of what soccer had become by the end of the twentieth century which in galliano's mine had been very flattened in very become boring faithfully As more and more countries left reflected an indigenous style of play and more countries started to play like one another and teams played like one another in a way. That was very very risk averse until maradona. Who was you know in both his life on the field and off the field was anything. But risk-averse He maradonna saw kindred. Spirit Somebody who could play with the efficiency that's needed the modern game but also had the ability to make you dream about what the possibilities of a human being could do and be On the soccer field and so in addition we encourage everyone to check out the writings of eduardo. Galeano as it pertains football because it's not just the xs and os. It goes way beyond that. Now even in regards to to madonna but the game itself as well. I'll just say on us. Wrote wrote a whole thin book about soccer called soccer in sun and shadow Of course if available in spanish and english and it's the most beautiful faca writing that you can imagine. I would recommend that this month for anyone looking for a good book to read during the holiday season. What can you tell us about the poverty. Madonna grew up in that perhaps shaped his political views later. Because you know we we just mentioned the the professionalization of football as as a global sport in how it's become sort of predictable and cold as you mentioned there's galeano mentioned but he grew up at a time where it's still not as polished as we see it today and this is very important and understanding you know his views later in life correct. Oh absolutely at Giggle maradona like to say that. He was born in the mud and never forgot where he came from and when he said he was born in the mud literally it was mud he grew up in the badio ueno status and he was the fifth of eight children and he grew up without running water or electricity and that always feel as if he was a kindred spirit with everybody on earth who lived in poverty in this globe. That's built on savage inequalities. Madonna saw himself as a tribune for those even when he was at his most his most wealthy even when he was at his most Flamboyant he never forgot where he came from he always stood particularly with the poor of the global south And that's not just in latin america that that's all over the world and My favorite Diego maradona story is diego. Maradona was also a very devout roman catholic and he was able to meet the pope Pope john paul the second and he said this is what he said after leaving his meeting with the pope he said i was in the vatican and i saw all these golden ceilings and afterwards i heard the pope's say that the church was worried about the welfare of the poor l. your ceiling then on migo something and so then. That was giggle metadata in a heartbeat. Like he he was never afraid of telling tough truth especially when it meant siding with the poor and disenfranchised of the world yes he was an imperfect being as you said when it came to his politics. He never forgot which side he was on. I'm glad that you you mentioned that incident. Because we'll see this a few times during the course of the conversation that he was not a very polished person as far as projecting assads what are read it in english or in spanish. He was very up front. Very blunt very brutish. You know in in a number of ways in his political views but often as as it was the case daddy was right on a lot of things. Now obviously you know there have been a lot of obituaries written about him with regards to his exploits on the field. And there's been just as many stories about his beliefs the field as much as on but if there's one moment where both of those things connect his beliefs off the field and is play on the field was of course one thousand nine hundred sixty one thousand nine hundred six world cup particularly the game against england which is the first thing that everyone points out for obvious reasons the famous hand of god and then the goal of the century afterwards people. This has been ad nauseam. But i think what is often forgotten is the backdrop of this game and the issues at hand before the game even started so for those who may not remember. Can you explain to us. The backdrop of this game between england nineteen eighty-six yes the the great quarterfinal game of eighty six world cup You know the background from that was that argentina as a nation was still reeling from its defeat in the falkland islands which argentina venus at the hands of great britain now the battle for the falklands which some people referred to as the falkland war that it was never proclaimed as war game wenge argentine armed forces and the country was led by the military junta the time they invaded the island which they believed to be their territory. Now the very right wing. Government of great britain led by margaret thatcher. Which had been overseeing the islands as part of its own imperial designs sent its navy to take them back in the resulting battle killed nine hundred people the overwhelming majority of them being argentinean and this recent memory really did supercharge the contest It was seen as a way to avenge the humiliation of the falkland and it was and because that to keep in mind whatever side one thinks was correct in the falklands battle. There was so much racism that came from great britain with regards to argentina and then so much racism in coverage of the war and so when when argentina led by maradona somehow defeated britain. In that context to the one with madonna scoring two of the most memorable goals in the history of the sport one of them being his hand of god goal where the ball caromed off his hand and the other being a goal where he literally went over half of the entire field And outduel multiple defenders and then put the goaltender of of great britain england. I should say not. Great britain of england on his behind and then kicked the goal in. I mean that that that was just you know i. It was epic. It was like something out of a movie. It's funny how the falkland islands wars a touchy subject today. Because first of all you know you you might get criticized for now referring it as molina's as they do in argentina and as recently as last week. Correct me if i'm wrong. That even the french president emmanuel macron got criticized for referring to that game between iron tina and england as the most game ever played. Correct yes macaroni was was referred to was railed in the british press after. He expressed his condolences for maradona's passing because he talked about that game. Avenging thatcher's england and saying factors england in a way if margaret thatcher was somebody to be despised You know. I actually agree with that sentiment myself. But that's a whole other conversation but the british press was enraged at matt krohn for for the way he put it and basic and talking about England being on the short end of of being avenged by argentina and that was very interesting it just shows that the sensitivity still exists and sensitivities. Aren't just about the the war. The battle The the sensitivity still just on behalf of england because of how they got their butts kicked In that world cup because that was also a great upset other than matt donor that argentina team which went on to win the entire world cup was not viewed as particularly strong. They were just led by the greatest player on her. Absolutely it's astounding how the falklands touchy subject. Thirty seven thirty eight years later after the fact and you just mentioned you know again. This is like side pointed to the issue at hand but this was a military junta in argentina against the right wing government in great britain as it pertains to the falklands war and so with that said although he led his country to the world cup title and they used six as you just mentioned. Can you explain why his play by no means represented a ring ringing endorsement of the military junta years earlier because they ended the junta ended in eighty-three the title was one in eighty six. But again it has to be stressed that this was by no means any endorsement of the actions that the junta took during this time especially during the falklands war i mean partly because madonna was against the junta and he wants shook hands with the leadership of kunda and he described it as one of the great regrets of his life You need you to do it as a representative of the argentinian national team. But he had no love the military junta at all he was on the side of the people and not on the side of military leaks That that's where politics where that's where it's heart was and in eighty six. I mean he. He won that world cup for the people of argentina. And nobody else about that. That's where he always always always lead with his heart on sleeve and his heart was where the color is blue and white was downing right now in the past week or so since he passed away that i've seen articles from places like indonesia. Brazil australia places. Maradona never even set foot in giving all sorts of praise and admiration for him in his passing and it goes to his you know. His beliefs is political lisi ad during his lifetime even long after his playing days. Were done so. Can you point out to the other causes that he supported during his lifetime. Because they're quite numerous. I i will say that. Yeah i mean. First and foremost i mean the reason why the whole world more and more than anything is fat. Soccer is the most popular sport on earth and use arguably the greatest ever play so that in and of itself is going to make the world more but the reason why the world mourned so so deeply was because of the causes maradonna champions. I mean these causes are not easy causes. These are causes the crime for things that usually result in a player being ostracized from their scores yet. He did it without as occasion. I mean he stood with the palestinian people in their fight for self-determination against The israeli government in israel defense forces. He wants said in his heart. He was palestinian and he even was rumored that he would coach the palestinian national team. I believe i was back in two thousand fifteen in. That room was very real that he was going to do that. And if he had that would have been an amazing moment of of of showing the world that palestinians play soccer and loves soccer and so much of the israeli battle and occupation against the palestinian people is about killing hope. Killing the idea of play killing the idea that people can be human in the context of occupation. So i think if matter donna had been able to do that. That would have been unbelievable moment for the palestinian cause. So that's one reason to love the He also was not shy whatsoever about standing with the. You know the pink tide of latin america the way the boulevard and wave seen in yugoslavia leadership in venezuela in ever morales leadership in bolivia stood with them literally like he went with them. He stood with them when they did event And he expressed his other solidarity with these movements with these very left wing nationalist movements that were attempting to reallocate wealth in their countries Over the strenuous objections of the united states And of course Diego maradona was a friend to the cuban government and the cuban people as well one of diego madonna. He he was he was not a tall man. Diego maradona end. He ballooned to over three hundred pounds because of the life of access and it was thought he would die years ago. I bet he lived sixty surprised a great many people and he went to cuba to avail himself of their medical systems and he credited the cuban medical system with saving his life and he was willing to Pose with the dell castro and and and and declare himself A defender of cuba and the cuban revolution. I mean and then also when it came to the players themselves don't stood for unionization even though he was one of the wealthiest players in the world. He's spoken uncomfortable truth. Which is that. The overwhelming majority of soccer players. The worldwide professional soccer players are not wealthy and they actually suffer from an absence of health benefits and absence of resources and absence of of a living wage. Even if they can live upon can so he declared himself in solidarity and said that he was going to offer himself as somebody who is going to help unionized. The players and people laughed at him. The federation's mocked him the leadership of particularly mocked him. Because the idea of madonna. Being a union person you know they you know they. They crinkled their noses at that like mcdougal madonna. You're one of the richest athletes in the world. And yet that wasn't how he judged whether or not he was going to offer his solidarity he judged it on whether or not it would be effective. And that's why the players loved him so much You know in the world of soccer and that the people loved him outside the world of soccer. You know the issue player. Unionization i think is most closely related to madonna as pertain lewis. Time when he played for napoli in italy. I won't mention it too much. Because the of maradona napoli is an hour long program in and of itself. That's a curious case of you know a division of class and even racism between the more affluent italian north and the poor italian south. So that's the story in and of itself and even long after his playing days as you mentioned he continued to preach and speak about player unionization as well so with that said. We're speaking with dave zarin. He's a sports editor for the nation magazine. And the host of the edges sports podcasts and the coals of the vp of ws the collision with yvonne. Thomas we're going to take a quick break right here. This is the latino media collective here. Wpf w nine point three fm back with more in a minute. Stay tuned wendy. Uh-huh talk while they went off. That was dr curricula. And you're listening to latino mc view. Wpf w eighty nine point. Three fm washington reminding everyone to get check us out on website. Which is latino media. Collective dot com. You guys will follow us on twitter. The name at llc underscores show and of course live on wpf w fm that or jets wpf w fm dot org once again. This is oscar fernandes. And we're speaking about the eagle madonna. His life his legacy with dave's 'iran who's a sports editor for the nation magazine. He's also the host of the edge of sports podcasts and the co host. Wpro views the collision. With and thomas. Before we continue here. I just want to mention did dave's zarin does have not one but two articles in the nation magazine about the matter donors passing the first one is do not comrade of the global south and will create linked to his article in our twitter account. If you follow us on twitter. So dave i just wanna point out a few things that probably you probably missed or may have not noticed. But among the people that paid their respects for deal 'maradona following his passing including them among other people are the mothers of the plaza de mayo matches the organization that was created by dot mothers of disappeared dissidents during the military junta years in argentina. And you know another interesting tidbit. Is that if you recall. Economic collapse in argentina back in the early two thousands among the people that was on the streets protesting was maradona himself. As well and as recently as early november of this year he was praising or congratulating ever morales on being able to return to bolivia following the coup that took place last year in bolivia. so yeah. I mean it's just it just speaks more volumes as to you. Know what we've lost right now before we took the break. You mentioned his passing his views on the united states. And there is if anyone takes time to google. Is you know the bush. There is a picture circulating out there. A donor t shirt alongside people morales saying. Stop bush and i guess that sort of sums up his views of not just serve the bush administration during the period of the iraq war but also the united states as well. Yeah and that's that. Bush t shirt. The s and bush is in the shape of swastika. He also wore shirt often. That said George call george bush a war criminal and around this time. He said the way he said the following he said. I hate everything that comes from the united states. They hate it with all my strength. And that's one of the reasons why i called the article. diego maradona. The global south or comrade to the global south. I mean of course. Many people in the united states and europe sees diego maradona's a hero but he saw himself as a lines with the global south. He saw himself as a comrade to the global south and when he said that he hated the united states and everything that comes from it but he was really talking about. Is you mentioned. It was the bush. Years was the fact that at the time. Post nine eleven. It looked like the united states is going to invade country after country after country. Your bomb country after country country. And of course they did And but there was also a global resistance movement to at least keep them from going too crazy and diego. Madonna was really part of that resistance movement. Hugo chavez was part of that resistance movement able maradas was part of that resistance movement and that to. That's the found his his comrades among those who are under the boot of the united states. You know what. I also forgot to mention that as recently as two thousand fifteen as a as a means to try to promote peace in colombia he held a charity match in in order to promote the peace of they were taking place in colombia during this period between the government and the farc as well so is mine one one example after another that keeps popping up in my head here. United forgot about that. He took the streets during the argentine. Not so and i believe that was two thousand two. I believe Two thousand one. Two thousand two. Yeah yeah. I mean that that i mean people who are young. Don't know like how cataclysmic that was. And how peter workers we're taking over factories and and running them selves. I mean students were taking over university that mean pyre country was being turned upside down and the the people were you know local committees and neighborhoods. Were being put forward to run their communities and the people were putting forward alternatives to to free-market neoliberal capitalism. And donna was on the side of the people deaths right. Naomi klein describe argentina is that argentina is not a. It's not a poor country. It's a rich country that became poor during this period in time so this allows us to sort of stretch the conversation here by asking. How does maradona's passing in history of of these radical political views that we've just mentioned already pushback against the persistent wins of quote unquote keeping politics out of sports. That we still see today. I know this is you know one of the main things that you that you do with both the writing an in your in your radio work but again. It has to be stressed as insane idea of keeping politics out of sports. It just makes no difference in makes no sense during maradona's playing days and it makes no sense now in this day and age once again shows what it would ally that tro biz politics and sports not intersecting first of all. It's a lie anyway because if there were no political athletes. Sports is very political. You know it's rife with nationalism. It's right with militarism It's right with free market corporatism. So there is a politics. Sports whether athletes are political or not when people say keep politics out of sports. What they're really talking about is resistance politics the politics of people Trying to stand up for the been. Be a voice for the voiceless which sports has always had more than other forms of culture precisely because so many athletes have backgrounds. Like the eagle madonna. For the there there's a connection there And and they're handed a microphone because of their fame. Now oftentimes they just use that. Microphone to sell us products like shoes sneakers and low and sports drinks. But you have this tradition also of athletes who use that platform for something different. And what's so fascinating is that it's often our greatest athletes who have used this platform. I mean if you think about people like mohammed the greatest you think about bill russell arguably the greatest basketball player to ever live you. Think about jackie robinson you think about You think about. Of course. Billie jean king and her bringing the women's movement into sports you think about people like martina navratilova and lgbtq people into sports and highlighting the visibility and fighting for their rights. And then you think of somebody like diego madonna arguably the greatest player in the most popular sport in the world and this is a political person so for people say there shouldn't be politics in sports. They're really talking about the negation. The erasure of a great deal of sports history. And i would argue the most important part of sports history very pulse sports history so people i we should be very wary of people who echo that trope that. They don't want politics in their sports because sports is politics because sports is life and life is political. I would also add the name. Kareem abdul-jabbar in that conversation as well and even in brazil i would perhaps point out Madonna's more more polish we say equivalent in brazil as far as an athlete strong political views socrates during the seventies and eighties was also part of a great brazilian team during that period of time. As well so i mentioned earlier. That hearing him speak in spanish several times he was not the most polish person in the world quite a brutish and blunt in the way he spoke in a way he. He expressed himself let alone his political views. So do you believe since degrade debate for years. Now has been between madonna and away from brazil you believe. His imperfections made him the opposite of belay. In terms of corporate sh- corporate schilling sat out there corporate ceiling. Because you know. I've seen more pay late in commercials. I see during his playing days. And so yeah. I mean this is something about maradona's personality and this aspect between the the rivalry between the student cannot be ignored in my opinion. Oh i mean as genius never going to be in question when we do have mattered on being the greatest soccer player ever. The discussion is always mad on or is it palay. That's the question. And because of that palay who's eighty years old. So he's twenty years older than madonna. They had their series of viewed. Their verbal feud verbal jousts over the years and some of that is about rivalry between argentina and brazil but it's also because they are very different characters of people. I mean they both were born very poor. They both rose on the backs of their incredible talents. But pay as someone who has never really as would would sell anything that wasn't nailed down. And i was in brazil for the world cup. Bend ayla commercials every commercial palay sitting on a throne with with You know with our crown on his head talking about the low low savings at at a supermarket. You know. so that's how. He has chosen to use his fame over the course of his life. I mean he has done some political things like that. We shouldn't discount. Pay does have some of that history to But it's it's very different a matter donor with somebody who stayed true to a certain political ethos his entire life even through all the ups and for mental downs of his personal life But you know palay who chose a different way to use his fame and again. I don't want to denigrate. Palay and every athlete has to make a choice about whether or not they're going to be political and i don't believe we should be Tearing down athletes who don't feel like they're political people and pay like i said Does have some examples of his life of of attempting to the us as bad form to do political things there. The reality of the matter is that you couldn't be talking about two more different people when it came to how they saw using their fame and their platform. Yeah by no. Would anyone consider you know. Pay to be reactionary or counterproductive in whatever political believes. He had i do wanna point now that there's an interesting documentary on the new york cosmos team back in nineteen seventy s where the owners of the new york cosmos in trying to persuade palay to come to play in new york among the people that they connected with to try to convince him to come to. The us was henry kissinger. Who was the secretary of state you know. During this time in the seventies and who's who's dark history and len america you know speaks speaks volumes volumes to his criminality. if maradona. Consider this if maradona was being convinced to play in new york and among the people to try to convince was henry kissinger he probably would have again not being a polish person that he was probably would've cursing out room and said no thank you. I'm not cloudy with a walk out of the room. No question about it. I mean that meeting wouldn't have happened and madonna. Of course there were efforts to get him to try to play in. The united has never going to do that. Never ever oh yeah you know what i remember that there is recently is ninety. Six hundred ninety seven there were attempts to try to bring him to the us but you know his his skills were domitian diminishing by that time so i forgot all about that. Thank you for pointing that out and doing the courses conversation. You know. there's another story you know. In and of itself that's an hour long program and that is our tina's first title in seventy eight which was played in argentina and this was during the military junta's dictatorship and for all intensive purposes reporting and documentation of disseminate eight world cup. You know pretty much says that this was used as a propaganda tool by the junta to try to whitewash in criminal actions and the barbaric things that were done during this time but military junta it would have been nothing short of having egg interface. If they had somebody like maradona on this grand stage speaking out against a hunter during this period of time. So i just want to point that out there. not -solutely so You know what. I don't wanna go off subject here but one of the things that i've seen even before maradona. Passing away was stories of his generosity. We've spoken about his solidarity with all these causes for people who are working class and downtrodden. Would i don't hear that much about you. Know and i don't know how to express his perhaps the best way but he seemed to be like the anti bully here. And i say that because i've seen the last dance on. Espn i've seen your critique on on this on this series and it just shows me you know that. There's another way to be successful at sports without being reactionary without being a bully without being sort of caustic and antagonistic towards people at the same time. Exactly I mean that's the history of michael jordan a lot of ways a a history of bullying and that was how he drove himself. That's how he drove his teammates. And that's something that. I think elementary in a very elementary way. is not the best legacy to leave behind. Once it's all done and it's not becoming somebody who's considered arguably the greatest to ever play a sport. And i think that madonna choosing to not be that kind of person It leaves a very different legacy so those who are behind. And that's i have to say. I don't say that in defense of michael jordan but sometimes it's very hard for a player when you're the best to be patient with those who are not the best. That's why it's pretty rare that an all time great player becomes an all time great coach. Because it's very hard to be to have that kind of patience with people who don't have the ability you can see and do what you could do. And unfortunately michael jordan not only fell prey to that trap but he. He went that he let that drive him. I mean that was that that was his reason for being was looking at every slight but everybody would give him responding in kind You know maradona. That's just not the way he walked. And that's not the way he rolled. And i think that's why the grief has turned in intense. Yes speaking of grief is been a week now over a week. Now and one of things i've noticed. Was you know his His public viewing in argentina. In the capital and argentinians being who they are both in in in joy and sadness out on out in public in the most dramatic of ways in most. You know no holding back whatsoever. I don't know if you have any thoughts on what you saw with. Regards to some of the videos to circulate of people throwing roses crying in front of his coffin throwing jerseys you know hugging out in the street. We're in the middle of a pandemic but people are still embracing each other in argentina and just not holding back tears not holding back the emotion not holding back the grief and the joy of his passing this is like a national mourning in argentina. Out only say that it reminds us that You know our legacy is really define not by the number of people who mourn us but how they choose to morris and in diego maradona. It doesn't matter the masses of people mc matters how they've chosen to mourn him with so much love and so much faction and it goes back to what we were talking about at the start of the show all of that love stems from the fact that he always always always knew where he came and he never abandoned the people he always was that person who grew up In the in the in the body oh in the the insecure communities of buenos artists and was always willing to stand with those who also grew up in communities that that that require help. That need help. And and i think that's why people more and so deeply And so because of who he was and what side he chose to be on. Yeah and i'll tell you quite honestly that it hit me very hard as well in ways. I didn't expect because for those people who listen to latino media collective probably nil that my father passed away in may from the corona virus. And thank you and maradona. Now passing away. I strangely find myself asking the same questions of him. That asks them my dad when he passed away. Which is one was the perfect human being ozzy. Not we mentioned that all human beings are flawed but this life that we live is about progress not perfection and the second question asked myself of both human beings here was did. They accomplish the goals that they sought out in life. My dad came to the us with very little education much like maradona to seek a better life for myself and for the rest of my family and he accomplished that goal. Maradona sought out to be. You know to go as far as he could as a footballer and he certainly did that and when you have those things in mind that gives you the conclusion that they fulfil their mission in life and by no means does it take away the grief but it certainly does put life in perspective in ways that you know. You probably couldn't imagine when that moment happens. So i just wanna see as we're almost done here as a good salvadoran in some the center salvadoran immigrants. I cannot have this discussion without mentioning that among his many friends throughout his life. Madonna was particularly friends with another you. Maradona like figure from el salvador. Named michael bonzelaar stay article friendship during the short time that they knew each other in spain and they continued that friendship afterwards as well. So i just wanna mention my hugo gonzales which is another interesting character that i could do for another program but i just want to say that. Finally with the passing maradona. Along with a series of other events have taken place or loan. Will we be seeing more people in professional sports. Taking direct positions in politics like madonna in the years ahead. We've already seen this to a certain extent in in certain parts of europe where players are taking a knee before kickoff in in recognition of the black lives matter movement. Will we be seeing more that because for me personally. I don't think i think it's nothing. Sure donate to go back to the way things used to be continued to strobe of keeping politics sports. I think we're going to see more of it because you can't put the wind back in the bottle. And athletes are feeling their power and as long as athletes are feeling their powers. They are going to fight back and they're going to use their voice. It's very difficult to get them to stop now that they're finally feeling like they're being heard and also you can't overlook the technological development of social media So many athletes now feel like they can talk to the people directly that they don't have to go through the filter of a scorched media. That's still very white and can be very conservative. And the fact that they feel like they can speak directly to an audience I think has been a game changer. Over the last several years so athletes are feeling their power. They have a motive communication and their movements in the streets. And i think all of these things will work together to create. I think a renaissance of political athletes. We certainly hope so. And we certainly hope that people follow the example of noni madonna but also contemporaries like the ever mention kareem abdul-jabbar and many others that have been in one form or another very direct open and proactive in their political beliefs. Off the field as well. So we've been speaking with dave's aren. He's sports editor for the nation magazine. He's host of the edges sports podcasts. And the coles wpf wsa collision with eight on thomas. He has not one. But two articles on the eagle madonna on the nation magazine. The first one diego. Maradona comrade of the global south. I encourage everyone to read. It will create a link to his article on our twitter account. But in the meantime dave it's been a pleasure. Thank you for being with us today. Dave's aaron makoto pleasure. Thanks for having me oscar. Absolutely and with that said as for today's show you could check out this episode in our previous episodes on website. Which is latino media collective dot com. You can also follow us on twitter. Name at l. mc underscores show that is at llc underscores show of course live on the bp of w fm that orgy. That's wpf wwl fm dot org so on behalf of my co-producer. Abby roberts is his oscar fernando saying thank you very much everyone for listening to show. We're gonna end the show today with regal wind'll another song paying homage to deal madonna diego maradona presented. So thank you very much. Everyone for listening. That's it for today's show a deals. Muslims chow lead sailed over and fund their s new ford. They motor mona spurrier. Said the sable who be a i'm media sale. Have he'll say about five. Feel bigger table food school so fun for pay people got it. Stadium weekly table can be voting on do took ohio.

argentina soccer maradona galeano diego maradona madonna nation magazine Maradona england gagliano galliano oscar fernandes diego palay football Madonna britain us Euboea miniature oscar fernandez
276: The Latin Americans of Australia

Latino Rebels Radio

53:03 min | 1 year ago

276: The Latin Americans of Australia

"Hey Guys Bradley here. Latino rebels radio we took the weekend off because of the holiday but no worries. We're running a show from our friends. At the Latino media collective is one of the shows that they we did earlier this year so media collective on the radio and correct Yeah it did yeah Both and Sir Yeah breath greetings. Greetings greetings Tommy chuntering Washington Washington all points beyond this is Fernandez's and you're listening to Latino media collective recorded that the studios or W W eighty nine point three. FM Washington and it is to Columbia here on this Friday August. Second two thousand nineteen Ross or heard on your net on website. which is Latino media collective DOT COM? You can also find us on twitter and the name at L. M. C. Underscores show that is at LLC underscores show and of course live on WPF W FM dot org he that's WPF W FM DOT ORG once again. This is Oscar Fernandez and today on the show. We put the spotlight on Australia. Yes Australia as we examined a small Latino Diaspora that you've probably never heard about. If today I show proves anything it is that you can find Tino communities in the most unlikely of places depending on where you look. The number of people of Latino descent in Australia varies from as little as ninety thousand to almost one hundred eighty thousand. The Latino collective has always said that there's no movement for Social Justice too small that it doesn't deserve our attention and we strive to live up to our model by telling stories from places like Belise Anti when Barbuda Western Sahara Guam Barbados. Just to name a few places so in the case of the Latino. DAS ASPIRIN in Australia. The question has to be asked. What struggles and or challenges are we talking about in this community relatively speaking the questions are perhaps more benign but equally curious do Latinos Australia retain Spanish? Do they have have their own media. Are they mindful of what's going on with their American counterparts. Whom does the Australian Latino community comprise of mainly and of course more importantly ardy accepted in Australia today? These are locked the questions that we hope to answer today. And so we have with us on on the show with Catherine Travis. She's a professor of modern European languages in the School of Literature Languages and linguistics at the Australian National University versity in Canberra. In addition. She's a chief investigator in the center of Excellence for the dynamics of language. She joins the Davis skype all the way from Australia. Welcome to the show Catherine Travis. Thanks very much Scott. It's a pleasure to be speaking with you. It's good good to have you with us. This is a very lofty. Show that we're trying to do here because if anyone understands the immigrant community in Australia there is when it comes to cultural diversity. The most visible groups are those of China and Southeast Asia for various obvious geographical reasons the Latino community in Australia is is relatively speaking small compared to those other larger immigrant groups. But he's always has left me curious to find out a little bit more about this community even now as we speak. Today I've been studying the subject for months now and I'm still not sure the actual population of people of Latino descent percent in Australia. So I will have to say. Let's begin there. How many people Latino distant live on Australia? Well the reason why you're not sure of the answer to that question is because actually. We can't really answer that question because Australia. Census doesn't ask a question about new city so we can't get it directly from that it asks ancestry but ancestry is very tricky one to interpret because many avow people interpreted interpreted in different ways so for example Arou- people Spanish speaking countries. Many people who actually bone in Australia will list Australian as their ancestry history. Many Latin Americans will Spanish as their ancestry. So some who list Ryan Latin American country and some Malysz Spanish. So the numbers are impossible to to interpret actually Ancestry what we can get definite numbers on from the census a number of speakers of Spanish and number of people born in a Spanish speaking aching country so speakers of Spanish in the two thousand sixteen sentence which was the most recent census that we did was About one one hundred forty thousand and that is around about half of the saint the Australian population so by that same tiny. It's important to to to to put that in the light of other other languages spoken in Australia as you as you said. Mandarin is immigrants from China or the most well represented and Mandarin is the most widely spoken language but even that is only spoken by about two point five percent of the population so altogether twenty percent of the the population or below the twenty percent. Speak a language other than English at home. But that's my top of some two hundred and fifty languages and it's very diverse so Spanish any sounds tiny. It's actually the most widely spoken language other than English Australia after Mandarin and Arabic Cantonese Italian Greek Nick Vietnamese and I forgot the other one is So it's actually not that small and also what's really interesting about Spanish with China's Australian migration history all European languages have been dropping numbers so we used to have the most widely spoken languages. It used to be Italian and Greek And we also had quite a lot of Polish Maltese German and all of them are dropping the European language that's growing is Spanish and and this is of course not because of European migration but because of Latin American migration. Yeah another reason why this community call my attention because take one of my nephews actually took his wife on their honeymoon to Australia and I think it was actually in in Sydney and yet he he actually came across a small enclave of Salvadorians in in Sydney I believe and he was quite taken aback because he wasn't aware that there was even in. You know even a sizable community. You know where where the seven community existed and they spoke Spanish and Iraq caught him quite literally me by surprise. And that brings me to the next question here. which is whom are perhaps the most visible Latino communities in Australia? And where do they reside in. We just mentioned Sydney but there are two places as well correct so Sydney is Australia's largest city is probably what attracts most of our migrants in the th or Some of the largest proportions of migrants. So we have large representation of migrants from across the Spanish speaking world end from across the world in Sydney Melbourne Australia. His second largest city also attracts a lot of of migrants and there is quite some non-american communities there as well and more recently. We've Seen Mole Paul Migration to Queensland and in particular Brisbane Which is further north of quite a lot warmer than than Than most more than seven on areas of of Sidney in Melbourne so any particular Salvadorans are actually the population that is most well represented in Queensland in in terms the groups. So you mentioned Salvadorian as We do have quite alleged other in population Who came out largely in the? It's during the period of the civil war. We had some ten thousand Salvadorans come to Australia under a humanitarian program. That Australia set up specifically the Salvadorans. The population has been very stable since then so It and we're not saying a lot of new migration from the Right now Our other illogic group is Chile Chileans Who came out in the nineteen seventies Again again what will actually the trillions of different in different wives side. I've come in periods of different social trouble side. There was a loud group. Came out before the Pinochet government right and there was a very large group that came out up to about the nineteen nineties And I are the have been there just just over a quarter of Spanish speaking population Spain is another large group the the Spanish migration is actually earlier migration. The Spanish migrants from Spain came out as part of a post-world will to migrations game. That Australia set up to receive migrants from will post yet migrants from post World War Two Europe and we that time we received a lot of migrants from Italy from I'm grace From Poland for many other countries from Ukrainian and Spain was part of that said the Spanish have been here longer than the Latin American. Aw residents so I mentioned Chile along with Chile we had a lot of Argentinian and Uruguayan migration that also came China during the dictatorship seeing those areas And then we have some new groups who are growing massively Columbia in particular is a group. That's really growing a lot in size In recent years due to the situation in Colombia and Venezuela about a lot smaller than Columbia has also been growing quite a lot recently. You know my nephew may not have been aware of the Salvadoran community in Australia. But the Salvador newspapers have been and the top two newspapers the papers in the country and they'll salvador of you years ago on their website used to have sections exclusively for this very small Salvadoran community munity in in Australia. And I do say small compared to the much larger enclaves that we see in places like in the US like like Los Angeles Boston Houston and even here in Washington DC as well now you mentioned migration from Spain and and it's my understanding that there are two interesting flashpoints regards to the history of migration by Spaniards one. Is the gold rush in the early part of the twentieth century. I believe in Australia. And the second one is or the second effect that led to Spanish migration. was you know the dictatorship sater's ship of Francisco Franco in in the mid- Middle Part of the twentieth century correct Yes so The gold rush was one thing analysts sugarcane. We had a lot of people from the sign. Come on shoot cannon on plantations. So we there. There is some pockets of most people onto the urban scientists but there are some pockets in sort of rural areas where we've had immigration from Spain to to to work on in the fruit of the tomato industry industry was another one So that was sort of Alda so we can see long term migration from spine any in fact the Australian census reports immigration from Spain. Right from the beginning of the nineteen hundreds and Latin American migration on new reports from the nineteen seventies and up to that point old Latin American countries. Where in fact collapsed I into one and from the nineteen seventies? I stopped to break it down so we can say that real shift Yes the the Franco dictatorship was certainly one issue but I but the biggest one was actually a stride is the post-world to migration policy where we accepted people. Oh from the assistant. We often assisted migration packages to migrants from Europe. And that was that was when that came out. In fact I believe that Franco Franco even suspended that agreement so so we had a lot of migration from that but that was suspended and then in nineteen ninety-six once spine joined the EU Pity performance by looking for another area to go to head something much easier inside the the migration from spine we can see a real increase from The sixties estates to the seventy S. But from. Then it's been largely very stable. This is quite interesting to me because here in Washington. DC We have a very large Central American community here and anyone who follows the history of migration here in Washington DC. Where we're based will tell you that you know? The story of Central American immigrants in this community started in the nineteen seventies but this is one particular small group in one particular city in the US in Australia. We're talking about an entire diaspora that sort of developed in the nineteen seventies. It seems like so dismay this may be something that you may have an answer but one of you could describe to us. The first wave of Spanish speaking migrants to Australia you mention Chileans and and the Spanish as well and again this is something. That's only fairly recently in the seventies correct from Spain was Elliott so up until the nineteen seventies. Australia had what was called the White Australia policy which was a openly racist policy. That was it was the like named the White Australia policy. You can't get much more racist than that And it was targeting migrants specifically while primarily British background but also ended up to European background but northern Europe primarily spying managed to get in as part of that and saw at post war migration was white and Spanish talion in great but those areas of Europe that were to communist China simply accepted acted no-one from other countries except for in very special conditions up until around about nine hundred seventy three when it was officially abolished At that point the Up until that point the only why people could come to Australia from Latin America where we had some post World War Two European migrants who went for example to Tina and if they'd been in Latin America less than five years they still count as European. And we're allowed to come to Australia. That was there was very limited. A skill functional solid land from non-european areas But it wasn't up until nineteen seventy-three that they had that op and allowed people to to come in so the first wide would say. I think the pus while migration action from spine from Latin America it would be following the nineteen seventies Where we had a big big migration from southern Alvin kind actually would would it be now I group it would be from Tina from Uruguay and Chile? The Australian government offered assisted packages for travel. The end paypal it setup migrant hostels people came and lived in these hostels the night moved to the surrounding suburbs and when you look at the distribution of the community across Australia you can say that these older communities are primarily in Sydney and to a lesser degree in Melbourne. And it's because I think their original placement in these hostels in these major cities ladies and then I moved out to the suburbs. I'm so then. Sheila came just slightly lighter than that and then more recently. Well then we had el El Salvador came off to that that was in the eighty s with a special humanitarian program. That was set up that yet I was talk Dorian migration and then more recently way saying as I said migration from Columbia massive increase in migration. So Catherine. Thank you for mentioning the White Australia policy. Because they'll they'll sunk you. I was GonNa ask you in a moment there and obviously the If you follow the news here in the US but the immigrant community here in the US is going through difficult difficult times and you know so if anyone needs a valuable frame of reference as to where the current administration might be you know looking at or how what their view is of the world when it comes to immigration and Migration Policy Interesting frame of reference would be the white Australia policy from from back back in the day now one component of the White Australia policy that I'm curious to know if it was active or part of or still part of Australia in in the nineteen seventy s as this community was developing is distinct. Called the dictation test was still active during this time in the seventies or was that are already already obsolete and ticket out long ago. Unfortunately I dont know win. The dictation test hissed was taken out but certainly having a high level of English is has always been a priority In Australia and if anything. It's actually strengthening more recently. Just recently there was quite a bit of discussion about rising. The level of the English tests that people people native to pass in fact some people said that rising to a level that was equivalent to getting into you having university level English And there was quite a bit of debate. What about that in in the end did it didn't go through? Fortunately but certainly language has long been used as a way to to to discriminate against against people I guess another interesting point about languages. And we think about these waves of migration jury the at Margaret's from humanitarian reasons were often unskilled. They often had a low level of of English. They had little economic power and we've seen a massive change to that now. The kind of migration that we saying is very highly skilled For example from Columbia from Venezuela very highly educated title very highly skilled have some level of English and also have sufficient money because Australia has right is continually rising amount of money that you need to demonstrate that you've got and the the criteria so it's very very different social group that we're seeing a massive social change in out-migration which of course for Australia. It's it's a massive boon to get these very well educated very motivated people in. It's obviously just a massive loss for the for the countries that coming from. Yeah you know what that's interesting that you mentioned that that does sort of the intellectual brain or the brain drain as one might call it whenever they are crisis in places like the aforementioned El Salvador or an orange Chile. It's the intelligence of the country. That's leaving because of some form of persecution from wherever wherever country there may be in question here in the case of El Salvador. It was is a horrendous civil war in the eighties that led a lot of people including my own family to immigrate to the US in one thousand nine hundred eighty S. Not Noise noise. We knew that Australia was an option. During this time suddenly we can see that as Spanish speaking population is very high. Achieving in some ways it was just looking at the census to compare EDUCATION LEVELS FOR PEOPLE WHO report speak Spanish at Hun with those reports speak English at home and interestingly Al Spanish speakers much higher proportion has completed high school and a high proportion have also attained a bachelor's degree at University University. So I think this is consistent with this is very well educated people who are coming out to a Stra Interestingly a lower proportion in have attained a postgraduate degree so I'm not sure whether we saying some sort of ceiling affect their or Oh what's going on with that but certainly any. We can say it very clear to say the high high status of education level of these migrants speaking with Cathleen doing travis. She's a professor of modern European languages in the School of Literature Languages and linguistics at the Australian National University. You in Canberra. We're speaking about the Latino Diaspora in Australia. This is the Latino media collective gonNA take a quick break right here back with more in a minute. Stay tuned uh-huh uh-huh uh the IMO an and the the yeah In town it down. Aw and they yeah. uh-huh uh-huh that was your through Yundi and you're listening to Latino media collective yawn. WPF W eighty nine point three FM Washington. Reminding everyone that you check out this episode in Dr Pinkus episodes on own website. which is Latino media collective DOT COM? You could also find us on twitter under the name at L. MC underscores show and of course live live on the VP FW FM Dot. Org that's WPF W FM DOT ORG once again. This is Oscar Fernandez and we're seeing about Latinos meals down under the Latino Diaspora in Australia and once again we're speaking with Catherine Travis. WHO's a professor of modern European languages in the School of Literature Torture Languages and linguistics at the Australian National University in Canberra and once again? She joins US via skype all the way from Australia Australia. And I said this at the first half of the show but I'll say it again that you know anyone who wants to understand the struggles that immigrants are going through right now here here in the US. A- valuable and useful frame of reference would be the White Australia policy. It's a story that has whole much of cases may maybe relevant today one case that came to mind during the course of my research was the story of of Nancy Persad and You know what it's the story great to me. In my opinion that sort of you know tells us a lot about the the unfortunate stories that we see now in in in the US today of a family separations and the case of Nancy Prasada. I encourage everyone to look it up and see what you know Discriminatory very xenophobic immigration. Policy looks like both yesterday and today now getting to the issue linguistics. This is something else that caught my attention engine professor Travis and this is something that you've sort of covered a lot in your research. which is you know how or this thing called code switching that you refer to? I'm curious to know if the concept of spangler exists in Australia because it's terminology that sort of been accepted here in the US but it's my understanding that before we started to show you have a contrary view over the word Spanish and the concept of it. Can you explain it yes. I'll be very happy to explain that. So people use spangler to describe scribe Typically the way Spanish spoken in the US. And yes. I also use it in Australia. Way people mix what what is that people mix up the two languages and it's not Spanish English is just kind of a mix of both of them And one I know that. A lot of Latinos use it with great pride that this is the language that we speak another way of looking at it another perceiving. That is to say that will you don't speak Spanish. What you speak is spangling? She doesn't speak real Spanish. You just speak Spanish. As though I've ocean of Spanish that include some mixing with English is somehow an inferior variety of the language. And I think in some ways being some literature about this disempowers the Spanish speakers in the US and disconnects them from this major world language because they are said not to speak that major world language they speak is Spanish. Now when we look at what what people call Spangler what it actually is. What speakers are actually doing what they're doing is they're incorporating a lot of words from English as into into this Spanish And they are doing some switching back and forth between Spanish and English and there's nothing rare about these days nothing And that's about the future of Spanish about this is very very natural in any situation where you have bilingual's where you have languages in contact. It's very normal that we borrow one words from one language into another and that we would switch between them so a lot of people dot nine this but of the English by cavalry Larry Forty five percent of our woods. Were French origin that were borrowed into English during the Normandy invasion of of of what is now Britain So that would also surely have been some kind of bastardized version of of English because we had such intense borrowing and yet the integrity of English has of course remained so intensive borrowing of words in that way doesn't necessarily threaten the integrity of the language in our research. What we've done is we've we looked at the grandma we said? Okay finds these Spanish because he using a lot of English woods but what happens to that. Grandma does the grammar start to look more like English. And we've done this. Ah lived in the US for ten years. I lived in New Mexico and working with them a colleague who's now at Penn state we looked at Spanish spoken in new New Mexico among a long standing bilingual Spanish English community. And what we find we look at the grammar that actually the parents of GRANDMA MIRA very very well the the patents of monolingual Spanish which is really impressive from a linguistic point of view that can incorporate all of these words from English into Spanish but they grandma is still very very much Spanish. So I think I it's. It's worrying into side that it's not Spanish. It's Spang leash if it suggests that you don't speak that major world language language when in fact you do you just have some different words which heavily natural outcome of any kind of language context situation our as my hand and say that yes. I'll you spend spangler from time to time amongst my other friends who are also children of of Central American refugees. I'm fine with that. But yeah you know what I agree with you. That when it becomes a put down or some sort of a term of you know disenfranchisement is men then yes it does become a problem does become a put down as as you said right there. One thing that you know raises my attention and because this is such a small community Small immigrant community in Australia. I'm sure snow you know because there's also also young as well that you know do second and third generation that Tinos continue to speak Spanish afterwards. Because I'm I'm assuming that since this is a small small community. I don't know how prevalent Spanish classes are in Australia's education system whether it be through primary school or college or how or even how accessible Spanish is in in various parts of the country as far as learning. It is concerned Yeah well certainly much less accessible in in the US The big languages for historical reasons that have been popular for for Australians. To study at school have been French in in Germany and they continue to be the case hospitals across the styler teach French and German and very few take While they are moon now starting to teach language but they're overwhelmingly the most widely taught languages and their overwhelming the languages that students flocked to I think Sydney full historical raisins Spanish. Spanish is actually become quite popular an eye anew the Australian National University where I work we are the university that teaches more languages than any other university city industry and Spanish is one top four languages. So I've talked to so that that would be French and German which just popular everywhere Mandarin sorry not dramatic the back so so at a new which is a major center for language education in the tertiary sector in Australia where I work top four languages French Spanish Mandarin Chinese and Japanese so Spanish is up there with the top foreign corner coming to be taught in more schools as a second language we also have a strenuous gives quite a lot of support for what we call `community community language in which schools so in a strategy we tend not talk of heritage languages which is often used in the US. We talk 'cause community languages as languages that vibrant in our community And and there is some government support for community language schools and there certainly are several Spanish community language schools and as out of people to that is the Spanish government used tool so I support schools because the largest population used to be migrants who Spain we now with increased migration from Latin America. The broadened out and it must have been schools who say many more Latin American kids children of Latin American families than other families So that's been really good initiative They've been very successful. Not Not all children would guy would have access is to them. There are also quite a few a very active people in the community. Chilean community in particular is very active as largest group group side. I have major Chilean depended I do my festivals in many different centers They have a magazine that I put out associated with that that several Set of small scale community based organizations that try to spread information about the community and often that's also associated with language opportunities. Yes oh I don't know if we would have greater retention. I think the thing that that most helps oops retention of the languages inflexible first generation migrants who had dominant in the language. Australia follows the standard that we also seen the US way. second-generation generation tend to speak bay dominant in English and some Spanish next generation on a speaking Does tend to follow. Follow that trend. what what boosted is areas. Where you've got a large influx of first generation migrants Examined the Colombian community. We've got a very large influx Alexa first generation migrants proportionally. That will help a lot to to k pop the Spanish within that community and I should also say that there's a lot of mixing across communities as well because no one group is big enough to be Independence of my experience has certainly bane that we get the Colombians getting together with the Salvadorians and the Chilean's the Argentinians Argentineans as a lot of unification across that which helps create a larger feeling community. Okay so let me ask you a difficult question here here because we played in the music break and that was a very popular aboriginal group from back in the nineties. I'm just know if at any point in time during a research and looking at this very small community does does does that any point in your research. Researchers does the aboriginal people come into play. Rip Regards to this looking at this diaspora coming from another part of world. Because I could tell you this here in the US on the show that follows us is is Jay night wolf and both myself and Jay have always made the connection between native the American and people from south of south of Mexico or South of South Texas regards to unity regards to indigenous people who just happen to be from various other parts of the world so again you know this is maybe a tough question but you know at any point in time. Duty the aboriginal community you know. Play any part or any role or just out of curiosity. Look at you know the indigenous from other parts of the world coming in here coming to Australian this case. Wow that's a great question No it's actually never come up. My feeling is that there's minimal absolute minimal interaction between a Spanish speaking of the Latino community and the aboriginal community The aboriginal comedian strategy is very disenfranchised When I leave in the urban centers many of them live in poor areas But not the migrant areas it would be my experience this sort of quite separate areas So no I think that there's not that that feeling of connection with that group of people. I don't know anything. The sites because in in in in in the states of clauses also from Latin America is also A lot of indigenous. Ns people from Latin America who are Hispanic Hispanic and indigenous so that makes it prince there whereas we we have that much less here. They're also the aboriginal population of Australia is very small. It's about two point. Five percent so in dining lives in urban sentence sentence and this is also partly because of the disenfranchised ranch chasmin of them died Incentives you wouldn't come across that many indigenous people so you need to go to other areas to make them send his very little mingling and I feel very little sense of identification across size groups. You mentioned that you who lived in the US for quite a number of years. So I'm pretty sure that you might be familiar with media outlets like univision and Telemundo moondog. Oh here here in the US. And these are very large multimillionaire. Not Multibillion dollar you know media outlets here in the US that cater later to Spanish speaking audience in the United States. which is you know in the tens of millions of at this point? I'm curious to know if if foster has similar media outlets do immigrants create their own independent media whereas be television newspapers the radio because for example example Beck and eighties when the Salvadoran community in DC was developing. They created their own newspapers and they develop their own. AM radio stations. Wins that you know. Strangely enough are still in existence today and still thriving with a large audience. So how when it comes to the media media do immigrants create their own independent media outlets they do their quite small scale that run by community organizations often with some volunteers. Possibly some government support But there are multiple sources out there that provide. I'll give actually newsletters or sort of small magazines About the community about van system online stuff. That circulates it's a little bit but certainly Radio Station itself that is dedicated to Spanish. Many of the Community stations will have will have a program like this one. I think that is dedicated. For example to the Spanish speaking or the Hispanic community But one thing that Australia does have that the. US doesn't have is back in the seventies with the abolition of the White Australia policy in Australia was embracing a policy of multiculturalism and a lot autumn initiatives was set up to support speakers of minority languages of our community languages And they set up. I write right a television station. A government sponsored television and radio station Cold Espy S.. Special Broadcasting Service was initially set up as an ethnic television the station and that shows a lot of content from the various community languages that a spike in Australia so for example in the morning I think there's about four hours of news half and hour segments of news from Spain news from Greece news from different areas account. Remember Italy US showing natural news from that that country it shows lauded Movies from other countries. In fact there are a few movies. Just English must old subtitled And is a radio station associated with that has segments dedicated to the different languages. So that's been and it hasn't been just for the Spanish speaking of the Hispanic community but it's been really wonderful for opening Stri. Leah's is more widely to they The culture associated with how many many community languages and I think there's nothing like that in the US actually unloaded lead. Did you mention as BS because I may have stumbled across it like a week before we had this conversation today and I did hear the Spanish programming it was is mostly music and yet the guy was speaking in Spanish with not a hint of Any any Australian accent els like. Wow this could easily be played in any other realization now only in Latin America be here in the US as well and said the music would have been one segment that they also music ones but they also do news and the Naidoo movies and all like programming all day from different languages. Oh yeah that's there's something else. Yeah I noticed as well that I manage to find the music part of his. BS By couldn't get into the news and Public Affairs Component. and which for some reason I don't understand was blocked because we're in an various editor part of world. And unfortunately I see this sometimes for for example I tried to look up something on the BBC. And it's blocked because it's in because it's not available in North America. So so Catherine I mean I mean I think that it is like I said before there's no movement for Social Justice too small that it doesn't deserve our attention. This is a very small community mused compared to the other immigrant groups Australia by. I think it's still in my opinion worth examining to see. You know I guess for me personally. Personally what could have been had. My family moved to Australia or even Brazil. What could have been you know and so in? I think that's that it is. I don't know it just it just blows my mind that there's this small community that otherwise doesn't get the same attention that other communities he's in other parts of the world deserve in my opinion so for almost out of time so before we let you to go you know Catherine we are speaking to an American an audience. So what do you hope people here in the US especially the Latino community here in the US. What do you hope people learn from this small immigrant community in Australia regards courts their American counterparts? I guess one thing that I think is really interesting about the Australian the small size of course but everything. Industry's Chris Fall. Right where we're we're we're small on think it's interesting that we've got a real mix of people sign now in the US. You know two thirds of the Hispanics are more are of Mexican. EXA can origin and he. We just don't have that largest group Chileans which were a quarter an next group of from Columbia which are relatively close to that. So we've got many different cultures coming together and in a sense they do turn to each other full support which which you to create a feeling of community? So maybe that's what it is that we can lean on how like-minded compatriots you know. Culturally linked linked people to to to form alagic immunity and retain our sense of culture and language Even living as a minority group in a country our life right from harm and this is something. That's still piques my curiosity now and help to explain on this. You know in the coming weeks and the months ahead so with that. Said we've been speaking with Catherine Travis. She's a professor of modern European languages in the School of Literature Languages and linguistics at the Australian Australian National University in Camera. In addition. She's also the chief investigator in the center of Excellence for the dynamics of language. So captain them Travis. Thank you very much on the show with us. Thanks very much US guys. tiptoe quick you absolutely that said that is it for today's show. We WanNa remind remind everyone that you could check us out on website. which is Latino media collective DOT COM? You GonNa follow us on twitter. The name at L. MC underscores show that is I can't see underscores show and of course live on WPF W FM DOT ORG that's WPF WWL FM. That org so on behalf of my co-producer Abby Roberts words this is Oscar Fernandes saying very much everyone for listening to this show. That's it for today show at US Muslim Chow. It took the by it took it took it once upon a time. Not long got some slide among captain. You look what I manage. The town shot the people of Color. Hey thank you thank. It rained on the a strong. Tom Com it out and to tie this back down to in the women's criticism Cookson premanently killers. Kind the wrong celebrates I can come back half the people we've taken back take back not the take it back. Take take take take back. I take it back to racism. Put away all life on right on the best. Buy Down the. Yeah the try to get up. They make nothing along the it was interesting. The tape in Tapie Back Battle Mountain they gotta balance in in the clear and Jake is people. The Young Queer Jay is people the sky a seabreeze news. When I cry I travel? The Nation cheever govern flown built-up current exclusion hot is like a shadow in the dust who take us through the justice through the Meta data that justice through the metal.

Australia US School of Literature Languages Washington DC Catherine Travis White Australia Spain Latin America twitter Australian National University Sydney Chile professor Australia Australia Oscar Fernandez Sydney Melbourne Australia Canberra China Europe
270: Mississippi's Latino Community

Latino Rebels Radio

55:06 min | 1 year ago

270: Mississippi's Latino Community

"The world is changing at a rate like never before so. Why isn't education at strayer university? We make transferring credits. Simple create binge worthy course is content to keep you engaged and design. Ai powered tools to help you graduate. Welcome to the future of education straight university out with the old school enrolling Australia University today and get a brand new laptop to help you finish your bachelor's degree laptop offer subject to restrictions and requirements strayer university certified to operate by chef. Hey guys who Latino rebels radio. It is Sunday November tenth two thousand nineteen. And as you know our friends at the Latino media collective out of DC they have been so kind to let us feature them feature several of their shows that have broadcasts over last couple of months so here they are the Latino media collective. uh-huh uh-huh between. Yeah Yeah uh-huh Take breath it took the. It took greetings greetings. Greetings e. b. m. IOS told me hinters Quijano in Washington in all points beyond this is Oscar Fernandez. And you're listening to Latino media collective recorded that studios are WPF w eighty nine point three FM Washington. And you stick to Columbia here on this Friday August thirty two thousand nineteen. We're also heard on your Internet on our website. which is Latino collective DOT COM? You could also find us on twitter under the name at L.. MC underscore show and of course live on the view pf Wfan that orgy that's WPF W FM. That Org org once again. This is Oscar Fernandes and today on the show. We put the spotlight on Mississippi following a series of ice rates that arrested almost six six hundred eighty immigrant workers in several food processing plants. Most of us have seen the video images of a terrified young girl sobbing after fodder had been arrested immigration authorities. The images are painful moreover if not for a few kind hearted people in Mississippi those same children that we saw would have been left alone on the street with no food. No shelter no place to sleep. At first glance one would not think of Mississippi as an important part of the country when it comes to the national all debates on immigration but upon further inspection Latino immigrant community in Mississippi goes all the way back to the early part of the twentieth century. What we saw this month is an immigrant community that came to Mississippi in the early nineties to work in the same food food processing plants? We saw news the same food processing plants that have a history of labor exploitation unfair wages just worker intimidation all under dangerous working conditions not to mention racism the the outrage over what took place this month by the public is justified at the same time. We need to understand that. We don't point the cameras at the companies that profit from this labor exploitation. Then there will be more tears. Shed behind closed doors when no one is looking at the time of this broadcast no companies that run these food processing plants have been charged with any crimes since the raids took place and so with us today. We have NGOs stews on the show. Where I she's a cultural anthropologist at the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill? And she's also the author of scratching out a living Latinos race and work in the deep South. She joins us today via skype. Welcome to the show and July. Hope I didn't butcher put your last name too bad there. Thanks so much for having me instead. It's good to have you with us. It's very tricky conversation and we have here because even as we speak right now. We are recording to show on August the twentieth. You have another article in regards to the ice sways took place in Mississippi this month. But you know. There's a whole lot of context here did I feel was sorely missing when this raid aide. She took place earlier this month. So let's just rewind back a little bit and go as far back if you can if you can take us back to the early nineties by explaining how the expanding poultry industry face potential labour organizing from Mississippi's African American community. First before we talk about the immigrant communities that we that we saw in the news this month You know I think Oscar. That's a great place to start because the poultry. The industry has been really expert at using sort of a racialist succession of inexplainable Labor and immigrants are in no way the first the first group so it was in the mid ninety s when the chicken plants were almost exclusively African American women and men and they had gained maybe just backing up a bit more are to give a little more context. They had gained entrance to the plants following the civil rights movement so since the industry began in Mississippi the in the nineteen thirties and all the way through World War Two and as it began to industrialize it was relying almost exclusively on working class. White women to do the poultry slaughter and packaging and as the civil rights movement gained momentum and and demands moved from civil rights and voting rights into the realm of Economic Rights African American folks and Mississippi Sir demanding access to better jobs. They were still largely on in fields. Share Cropping Doing farmwork and and there was a growing industrial class of jobs across the state poultry. Being one of them that African Americans were up until that point largely excluded from so they organized to get access to integrate the plants and it was at in central Mississippi In some of the plans in a matter of weeks the white women left and the and the workforce of dramatic transition condition from from white women to black women and men and so by the by Early Ninety s the poultry industry was expanding. Americans were interested in eating more will meet right lower cholesterol but also the Eating a lot more chicken nuggets in fast food So there there was a greater demand for poultry and the the plants were moving from two shifts the data three shifts a day. They were having to look as far whereas nearby counties for us born Labor and at the same time the quakers who had been organizing for better wages and working conditions since they had gotten access to the plants in the seventies. We're gaining traction. In some of the plans they They now had unions and the companies were facing using the possibility of having to negotiate with workers for over wages and working conditions And that was sort of the context in which they began the poultry. Industry began looking further. Afield for workers. Yeah it should be noted that the poultry industry in the food processing processing plants is not just in Mississippi but for various other parts of the south as well but in the case of Mississippi with the threat of unionizing consensual unionization by African Americans in Mississippi where then dude poultry processors go to find new and cheap labor and by answering during this. I guess this is also an opportunity to answer the other question. Which is the Hispanic project? What is the Hispanic project which seems to me goes hand in hand here? Yeah so there was a chicken plant I mentioned BC Rogers in Morton Mississippi which was the oldest plant plant in the the oldest poultry processor in the state And I tell a story in my book about how it was that BC. Rogers ended up hiring an executive from Chile and that in itself is an interesting story that involves tennis and a shared love love of tennis but in any case this Chilean men ended up in in the administration of BC Rogers Poultry and he had a contact don in south Florida. Who Ran a Cuban store and together with John? Rogers the the Owner of the of the business at the time They had the idea that they could go to Miami to see if they could recruit workers so they put an the ad in a local paper and they advertised this Cuban store and the front the acquaintance and at the store gave them a little space In the store and they I think we're all somewhat surprised to find that. In a matter of a week they had recruited an entire Greyhound bus full of new collecting Immigrants who were willing to try their hand at poultry and so they drove them to Mississippi the generally straight went straight to the chicken plants where people would start work as soon as they arrived and this was this experiment experiment turned into what BBC regs poultry called. They're Hispanic project with a capital H.. Capital P. This entailed the recruitment sort of that. I've just has talked about in the transportation to to Scott County Mississippi but it also entailed providing housing for workers and their families providing recreational activities for workers and their families taking them shopping taking them to church Making sure they had transportation to and from work all of these services were provided for a fee that was deducted from workers paychecks The Hispanic project was an of course there. The this lead to Local concerns about newcomers because they were bringing a busload of new Latin American immigrants every week to Scott County and over the course of four years. The Hispanic project checked architects estimate that they brought about five thousand workers to these two towns in Scott County that have a combined population of under ten thousand people. Of course not everybody stayed folks who could who could Move into better paying or less dangerous jobs certainly certainly did. But but this was the beginning of of What became a dramatic transformation of Miss of Rural Mississippi but also Based on the research that I've done I believe that the poultry industry across the south as you noted has been a big draw for Latin American on immigrants into the rural south because the poultry industry is in disgust at often in corporate media. I guess people don't realize how insidious the company BBC Rogers in BC. Rogers type organizations like these are in various parts in the south are in various parts and the chicken processing gene business or chicken processing industry before we continue. I just WanNa not one that you have direct experience knowledge in in in this the story that we're talking about because used to work in the Mississippi Poultry Workers Center back in the two thousands correct. Yep that's correct. I was collaborating debating with them over several years and lived in Scott County myself from two thousand four to two thousand six so during your time in Mississippi. How did this recruitment scheme change the demographics? You mentioned this a little bit. But in other places and regions where poultry processing plants existed. Because I think it was your organization the same organization the Mississippi Poultry Worker Center. That actually created the map of the processing plants in various parts of Mississippi in Alabama and various parts of new growing Latino communities and they almost seem to overlap correct. They do do. Yeah and the Worker Center cannot take credit for that map. But I think it was Census data and maybe A. I'd have to look like an agriculture recall one of the agriculture agencies of the government that sort of put this information together and then We created a map of that forum article in southern spaces but in any case I think I do have more to say about sort of relation to this question so the Hispanic project really served as a model locally but also regionally which was shocking to me when I when I learned So other chicken plants in in central Mississippi sort of saw the this the BBC Rogers was having success and started similarly recruiting folks from South Florida also from South Texas one plant decided to create an incentive for each of their employees So if a if a worker brought another worker who stayed at least three months they would get An incentive of six hundred dollars and I met several people in the area who took took advantage of that opportunity to recruit friends and neighbors and colleagues coworkers folks who do for both back home and in the US who needed work and sought a sort of a win win right there. There are people got work and they made quite a bit off there. There's one man from Cuba Peru who actually put an ad in his local paper in Peru. And saying you know that if you could get it yourself to Miami that he could guarantee you a job deboning chicken in Mississippi and so in one poultry town where I worked. There were a white collar educated folks from R. They keep who were had been librarians agronomists engineers and who were now all Al- deboning chicken as a result of of this incentive and the BBC Rogers Hispanic project architects also so said that they attended meetings regional poultry meetings where other companies wanted to learn from their model and figure out how. How can we also recruit this? What seems like a sort of a bottomless supply of of low wage workers? Yeah it seems like you're just. There's some encouraging exploited workers to run a pyramid scheme on themselves all the while the poultry processing plants are the ones that are the ultimate benefactors of the scheme. And I'm glad that you pointed out the The migrants that you mentioned the in Ecuador because this isn't just about immigrants immigrants from Mexico. This really run the gamut of various countries in both central and South America and the Caribbean. I think during of course your research you also mentioned a few Uruguayans. Their mate made their way into these processing plants as well so is really just not one particular country or one particular region egion but just exploited labour. No matter where they came from so one thing that we cannot understate here is the dangers injures of this poultry processing industry. I WanNa know that while this recruiters don't going on. Can you give us a few examples of some of the dangers workers face in the poultry processing using industry whether it's exposure to chemicals exposure to disease using industrialized equipments Things like that. Well sure you're so. Poultry is known to be one of the most dangerous industries and meat packing in general But one of the most dangerous jobs in the country. And there's been when I think many more people have written about this then then just I But you mentioned chemicals. There's the working. Working conditions are very hazardous. So not only. Is there a lot of exposure to chemicals Knives are often dull. The floors are slippery with water and chicken chicken fat. Every area of the plant is either very hot. Because you're working with live or just slaughtered birds or very very cold where the where the after the birds have been chilled. Their meat gets deboned and in both cases The causes health issues for workers You mentioned chemicals. I will say I think one issue issue is that that we see really across the the food chain industrial food chain in the. US is that Food safety issues are are put on a much higher plane than worker safety issues right so the public and the government are watching very carefully For Food Safety in the case of poultry this means we're using harsh chemicals to wash down equipment to wash down the meat to keep bacteria low but it also means that those same harsh chemicals are are Workers are being exposed to these to these chemicals Workers Complain of not getting in bathroom breaks. So they're in some plants. There's not a good system of providing Relief so that some of them can take a break when they need to. And all of this can lead to injuries and illnesses want when I worked with the poultry worker senator. One of our big projects was a workplace injury project. It was just simply trying to help injured. Workers and sick workers get access to healthcare and to workers compensation and those were routinely thwarted by by the industry got recently wrote an article with lots of examples of the ways in which poultry was trying to the poultry. The industry tries to keep injured worker from accessing those basic rights That's just a few of conditions In in poultry processing. That's the thing that make it a really hard and demeaning place to work and see this is why should be a larger issue to the general public. The that I in my opinion. I don't know about you but I feel like worker. Exploitation can lead to a public safety problem. If if if it's as dangerous as you say it is is quite clearly as dangerous with regards to what we just mentioned exposure to industrialize equipment and and all sorts of diseases because of the danger of this of this type of work but unfortunately this is not what brought us to this conversation for station. What brought us today? Is the ice raise that took place in Mississippi this month and I mean your opinion I think is very valuable. Well here especially your frame of reference because considering everything that you have both research and personally experienced in Mississippi and everything that you presented presented to us as far during the course of this conversation I wonder if you give us your thoughts on the irony. Capital words irony of the ice weights conducted earlier this month. Considering everything that we understand about worker exploitation in this industry had left you I also have one other thing that I'd like to share about the last this question you know as we started out by talking about african-american poultry workers and many of the poultry worker leaders union leaders leaders and union stewards in the plants. At the time that I was there were African American workers and former workers and some of the folks That I learned and a lot from were those leaders and one person in particular told me that the poultry industry. She said it up. It wastes your body uses you up and then reaches back for your kid and it was very much thinking about intergenerational while using up of bodies uncertainly immigrant A flexible immigrant Labor adds new bodies his to waste. But but I think we need to thinking about the dangers of workers face in poultry processing. We're really talking about the disposability of human bodies for the production of the perfecting. That we all eat. I think that's really important. Your your question about the ironies of ice rates I think is a really good one so to me. The one of the biggest ironies is that the the folks that are caught up in these raids and that are blasted by the trump administration is not belonging here and as lawbreakers. There's who should be deported at the first opportunity are this are the same folks who were recruited routed to this place and to these jobs by the companies that they're that they're working for and they have been largely welcomed and by local communities right so folks are looking at their neighbors How do you decide? If someone's a good neighbor I mean it's not it's not about whether they have papers or not it's about if they're good people if they're kind people if they're hard workers and so Yeah there's a real irony in the the sort of poll of workers into this very dangerous low paid industry and then at the same time the the public display of the trump administration of trying to to to rid the country of the of the very very people that are that are food chain in our economy depends so heavily on. I'm glad that you mentioned that because like like I said before if it weren't for a few kind hearted people in Mississippi who were there when these kids were left with no no place to go. After their parents were taken they would have been Out on the streets with no food no bed and no roof over their head. So it's a good thing that you mentioned that because it sort of breaks. It's the stereotype that Mississippi's recipient one hundred percent whole holy races. They are good kind hearted people who recognize the situation and the best they could under the circumstances. Zip these children out with that serve. Take a break right here. We're speaking with Angeles. She's a cultural anthropologist. At the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill. She's also the author of scratching out a living Latinos race and work in the deep South. This is a Latino collective beckwith morna minute stay tuned asset account sold under God embalm Boss Ins against the Food Still Sam. Saturday phone no no the Crown Gall Sonus they got away with Sam L. Believer Thank Ah Yeah AH GIMME SPILLWAY MOUSE That was what you're saying. And you're listening to Latino media collective. WPF W eighty nine point three FM Washington reminding everyone that you could check check out this episode in our previous episodes on own website. which is Latino media collective DOT COM? You can also find us on twitter at the name at L. M. C. Underscores Joe. Oh that is at l.. MC underscores show and of course live on WPF W FM that orgy that stuff PF WFAN dot org once again. This is Oscar Fernandes and we're speaking about the Mississippi ice rates and the Latino community in Mississippi who speaking of Angeles dues who's is a cultural anthropologist at the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill and the author of scratching out a living Latinos race and work in the deep South. So once again I wanna hit again something that we mentioned before the break. which is they are good kind hearted people helping out utter immigrants in Mississippi in the Mississippi community and one example of this is that there would there had been or has been an impressive number of local African? The American civil rights organizations have spoken out in solidarity with the immigrants that were arrested earlier this month. So some of the organizations in Mississippi achieve put out a letter and this was organized by an organization now near called black with no chaser. The Chinese included the Mississippi chapter are of the end of Lacey Pe- one voice for Mississippi the Malcolm x grassroots movement black voters matter in Mississippi Mississippi zippy worker center for Human Rights Southern Raw Black Women's initiative for economic and social justice just an impressive number of grassroots rescue organizations in the local Mississippi area that came out in solidarity of their immigrant. Neighbors down there and the reason I brought this up and I think this goes back to something that we hit on at the beginning. which is that African Americans? Would you original people who tried to unionize or or get some degree of labor rights within the the poultry processing industry. And I'm curious. No if you believe that their support is also based on the seem frame of reference that we presented about the importance of layer labor organizing labor rights that we mentioned at the beginning of the show. I was really happy. Happy to see to see that. Come out and I do think that that sort of sits at the heart of organizing in the state of Mississippi I think the the reference point for all contemporary organizing in Mississippi is the Mississippi Freedom. Struggle is the civil rights movement and and the organizations and the struggles that came out of that out of that movement so when we're talking about immigrant rights in Mississippi from the beginning. This has been Enlarge part led by a civil rights veterans by people in organizations who recognize sort of common points of struggle across different community's different oppressed communities different racial communities and certainly affect American leadership has been at the forefront of immigrants rights and social rights and Racial Racial Justice in Mississippi for the last. Well I wanted to say fifty sixty years but certainly. It's been much longer than that. That organizing has been happening from even prior to the Mississippi. Freedom Struggle. I'm I would. I would also say that it was. It was black worker leaders in the chicken plants that I realized that the workforce workforce was changing and that if they wanted to continue to try to organize for better wages and working conditions in poultry. They were going to have to figure out how to communicate with and Organiz with their new letting ex coworkers so when I went to Mississippi and I in two thousand two it was because precisely because as an African American worker leader who had formed a union in his plant and was now representing was the local the local leader of his union in Recognize that this this exact issue that he needed to figure out how to organize with immigrants and it wasn't immediate it. I think for him at first his first gut reaction was. How do we get rid of these people? He even told me that he called immigration on folks early on but it didn't take him long to realize that even if he got a few people out of the plant that more were coming right in this that this was not an individual Jewish you but a structural issue so I just think it's. I'm really glad that you uplifted this letter. And and the and the reality right that that labour organizing and civil rights organizing among black folk in Mississippi is is vital to thinking about immigrant. Justice there an across southbound I would say across the US absolutely and as a matter of fact Watchi- Posted letter on our twitter council. People will will become aware of it and we'll try to raise more awareness as a result of answered this already but I wonder if you get more details to attempt uh-huh bye-bye poultry workers themselves to speak out against dangerous working conditions implant and also just as importantly if not more importantly since your answer this this is that what has been the response from the owners of these processing plants when there's been any attempt at all to try to either denies is organize or just trying to get some measure of dignity in these dangerous working conditions. And we've mentioned. I think the short answer Thursday. The plants have pushed back aggressively against worker organizing attempts in my book I tell a story of a a homegrown worker union in the nineteen seventies. That was the first unionizing effort that I was able to to find in Mississippi poultry. Sorry and these were black workers who were very aggressively Silenced and were were protecting themselves at night with guns out of fear fear of being attacked. There was what I found was cooperation between local law enforcement and the chicken plants and local media To try to took to squash this worker organizing effort I think more in the in the present I mentioned the Mississippi Poultry Workers Center Workplace Injury Project. Act and our work to try to get injured workers access to to healthcare and workers comp Workers were injured workers It's not uncommon for the plant nurse to tell someone to take an Ibuprofen or take a tylenol and Rub ben gay on it And constantly rebuffing workers workers reports of injuries if they are injured badly enough that they can't work often they're asked to come to work anyway and to sit their entire shift shift in a in the break room. I had one woman say that she had to sit her entire shift in the bathroom and this is to avoid having to report a lost work. Time injury to uh-huh show the occupational safety and Health Administration so there I found lots of ways in which the plants Both push back at work organizing financing but also tried to impede injured workers access to getting health Getting better there was there was also a a few people have pointed out that the raid on the what used to be the BBC. Rogers and now is the cook. Food Plant in Morton came just months after a big class action settlement in which Cook Foods was In court for over a decade because workers were alleging discrimination at the hands of Particular supervisor and this was something that people were reporting when I was there back in two thousand four two thousand five and it took A. It took ten years of of of fighting in the courts sports before before these workers were able to to win a set on it. I'm sorry but that kind of makes you mad because that is an example of of the racist undertones there we have. We haven't said it outwardly. But that is sort of racist. Overtones against immigrants against exploited workers that sort of underlies this problem that we're seeing right now with the with the case of of Mississippi and you know having just mentioned guns. I mean you know the last thing we need right now is more Americans pointing guns at immigrants at this point in time now right now as we speak right now we're recording into show on August the twentieth and you just put out another piece regards. The ICE tweets in Mississippi on the Progressive Magazine which is Progressive Dot. Org It's entitled workplace. Rays are not the answer and I wonder if you give us an update here now at you. You're going to quote you here. From the first paragraph of yard ago quote days after the August seventh immigration raids in which approximately six hundred eight people were arrested in poultry plants across Mississippi. Federal Court. Documents were unsealed that publicly revealed the evidence that led a judge to authorize the rates the largest single state immigration enforcement action than us. History history. So I'll let you fill in the rest area by answering. What did these documents reveal? Well they they revealed that the plants were employing workers with electronic ankle monitors that they we're hiring the same individuals multiple times under using different identity documents. I think it also showed that they were outsourcing recruitment some of the plants they were outsourcing the recruitment and there and the verification of People's documents to third party contractors and the none of these practices are surprised to those of us who have been you know following the poultry industries actions for a long time But the point that I'm trying to make in In this article that you mentioned is that so often. We hear the debate over whether they're immigrants are at fault for working without papers or whether we should be blaming lawyers for hiring them writer for turning a blind eye to their hiring. But I think what's important to keep in mind. Is that the Immigration Reform Control Act which was passed in nineteen ninety nineteen eighty Six really has incentivized the system and so we can. We can blame workers we can blame. Companies unease certainly are there are a lot of practices of the poultry industry. That I'm I'm Critical of but but we have to look at the bigger issues at the bigger structural causes of this of the system So when Irqah criminalized the hiring of undocumented workers offers it forced workers into the shadows it created a black market for documents for work documents. And it's really made it so much harder for for workers to organize for better wages and working conditions and I think that e-verify which which has been the system employment authorization verification system. That's worked that has been used over. The last decade has only made these problems worse so I guess I'm arguing that we you know when we're thinking about. What are the solutions to these issues? I don't think it's workplace raids and I don't think it's the criminalization of work of what I found working with the worker centers that legislation legislation. Like this only makes workers more explainable right. But it doesn't stop there hiring. It doesn't stop employers on it doesn't stop the workers so I think it's important instead that we that we think about a system that enables immigrants to put down roots roots and that protects labor and employment laws and this goes back to what I said at the beginning that even as we have this conversation station today no owner or no management person from any of these processing plants have been charged with any crimes whatsoever as you send. The article is one of the largest raise state rates and US history and almost none of it if none of it at all involves any of the people that you just mentioned mentioned that had that seemed to be that seemed to have circumvented the law more so than the immigrants themselves or whatever perceived. You Know Oh transgression. The immigrants made here. It's very clear during the course of this conversation. There's been a lot of missing parts here. That mainstream media has missed during during the course of this story so want to know of you. Give us your thoughts on some other aspects of this of the story. Mainstream media has missed when story first. I broke because once again. You've had firsthand experience working with immigrants down there and Mississippi are there any other aspects or even just as an antidote. Did you want to give us that sort of sort of missing. During the course of this story I feel really fortunate to have been able to share my work in my experiences because I think one of the things that was missing especially very early on You know in the first a couple of days after the story broke was any sense of of local history and context ridden affiliate. That's partly what I've been able to contribute but another thing that I think is missing in. It's getting better but it's still largely missing is the voices of local people who who are affected by the raids and of course immigrant immigrant communities especially undocumented. Folks are you know are not stepping forward to talk with the media and understandably so But but as you pointed out earlier they're a lot of good people In Mississippi Way Folks Black Folks choctaw folks folks and next folks and others who are who are stepping forward to help their communities and I would love to see more of those more of those voices and also I guess What I was sort of talking about a minute ago when brought up Irqah I think we need a lot of people are asking her? Why aren't the employers getting prosecuted? Maybe they will. Maybe they won't and I guess I don't feel tear. I don't think think I feel strongly one way or the other. But I think what's what's missing is in recognition analysis of these larger structures. That are incentivizing. Both workers and employers is to gauge in unauthorized work. And the ways in which these are are making people so vulnerable to exploitation and yeah. I don't blame you if there's if there is in a concrete answer for that because this is the type of story did really it does not lend lend itself to any sort of optimism or any Ernie hope that people from the top down or going to make any change. But if there's anything to be to be taught from forgotten immigrant rights that you know and I'll make it very blunt myself that these white male power structures that are the food processing assessing industry and government is especially those in powered. Mississippi are not agents for social change. It starts from the bottom up. It starts from organizations such as the one that you work with in Mississippi and the various other African American organizations in Mississippi that have stepped up in solidarity to the immigrant community in in Mississippi as well in light of what took place I'm channel. Do you have any any the opinion or any thoughts of you know the young girl that was put on TV. Who was crying for her father when when the raids took place This is kind of hard to to you know see those sort of images but at the same time it it personally for me. It kind of infuriates me that we have to wait for something like that to be put on the spotlight and rather than instead of speaking to grassroots organizations like the ones that you worked in and hear them talk about the work that they've been doing an up for years now to raise awareness about labor exploitation nation in places like Mississippi. Yeah I mean I think I don't know if this is responding directly to your question but but I think that all this is all happening in context of of growing white nationalism across the across the country White supremacy seems to be gaining More of a hold or at least more people feel more free to to express These issues I think we need to keep in mind in this context texts. That racism isn't a Mississippi problem. It's not a southern problem. It's not a black problem. It's not a lot the next problem. Racism is a white problem. It's all of our problem right and also I think we need to remember that. It's not just about good people and bad people which I think we tend and to think about a lot when we're looking at at the shooter who came out in Moscow in all the other mass shootings that are going on but it also has the Jewish structural actual racism? I think we see this really clearly. In the in the case of these raids in case of the in the case of the lives of the folks that who were affected by these raids and the work that they were doing the lives that they're living structural racism is is embedded in our institutions. And I think you're saying you know the the answer isn't GonNa come from above and I agree. I think it requires all of us. Working for Racial Justice for immigrant. Justice for Social Justice in our community is doing feeling what each of us what we can absolutely and again. It's a hard thing to discuss because again. This story Loyd does not lend himself to any sort of optimism. But you know I always tell people that you know. People in the global south cannot afford for dissidents in privilege society. Such as you and I to become cynical it's not our lives salutes and it's not our future to mortgage so the struggle for workers rights is going to continue in Mississippi at the very least so I mentioned a few organizations. I WanNa know before we let you go love if there are any other organizations that you believe are worth mentioning that works on these cases or just any good organizations in general in Mississippi. They're struggling only for workers rights but for social justice as well in the state of Mississippi. Yeah I think the MISSISSIPPI CBS Immigrant Rights Alliance is a crucial organization. That's operating at the statewide level to try to stop anti immigrant legislation from passing and connecting server legislative issues and racial and immigrant issues with Labor issues. Pueblo is a small organization that is supporting workers. Pro Bono Immigration support following the raids the Aclu of Mississippi. The city is doing really important work and the Mississippi Center for Justice and then I would also mention this is not a Mississippi based organization but for folks for interested in thinking more about the consequences of criminalising immigrant labor her and and I guess the consequences not just for immigrants but for our economy I mean and for all workers I really admire the work of the break. The chains alliance Who are who are are trying to educate folks on this issue and encourage us to think about repealing the e- Orca employer sanctions provisions? That I was talking about earlier. So the struggle for workers rights in immigrant rights continues and thanks to the good work as well by Angela Stews for bringing this allied as as well. So we've been speaking with Angela stews. She's a cultural anthropologist. At the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill. She's the author of scratching out a living Latinos Tinos race and work in the deep South. Her latest article can be found on progressive DOT ORG. That's progressive dot org entitled workplace is rates are not the answer Angela. Thank you very much for being on the show with us. Thanks so much. Thank you once again with. That said that is it for today's show. We WanNa remind everyone that you check out this episode in our previous episodes on Latino media collective dot com you also follow us on twitter under the name at LLC underscores show and of course live on WPF WFAN dot org that's WPF W FM. That org so on behalf of my co-producer Abby Be Roberts this is Oscar Fernandez saying very much everyone for listening to his show. That's it for today show a deal November Chow mm-hmm the IT. Hello Doc uh-huh The the world is changing a rate like never before so it is an education at strayer university we make transferring credits. Simple create binge worthy course content. That keep you engaged and design. Ai powered tools to help you graduate. Welcome to the future of Education strayer university out with the old school enrolling strayer university today and get a brand new laptop to help you finish your bachelor's degree laptop offers subject to restrictions and requirements strayer university certified to operate by chef.

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The 1918 Spanish Flu: Fact vs. Fiction

Latino Rebels Radio

57:24 min | 8 months ago

The 1918 Spanish Flu: Fact vs. Fiction

"Hey guys. It's Julio Gallo Latino Rebels Radio Sunday August thirtieth twenty twenty. And we took the week off we try to get representative Joe Kennedy. scheduled. because. They had reached out to us after the ED markey interview, but it never materialized and we were off anyway because Fudo media takes a week off for the summer. So our friends at the Latino media collective who have done guests shows in the past gave as one of their shows from couple of weeks ago, and here it is the Latino media collective on Latino rebels radio. Fleet. took. took. took. Greetings greetings greetings even told me channel in Washington and all points beyond. This is Oscar Fernandez and you're listening to Latino media collective recorded that the studios are WPF eighty nine point three FM Washington a distinct to Columbia here on this Friday July thirty, first two, thousand twenty. Were also heard on the Internet on own website, which is Latino media collective dot com. It could also find us on twitter and a name at L. MC underscores show in, of course, live on WPF WWL FM that or gee that's WPF W FM that ORG. This is Oscar Fernandes and today on the show, we put the spotlight on Texas to discuss the fact versus fiction of the Spanish flu pandemic of nineteen eighteen and to follow up on the one year anniversary of the mass shooting in El Paso Texas, the largest mass shooting targeted against Latinos, and so there's no need for a long introduction today on the show because our guest today has a lot to say on how the US in various ways is repeating history in its poor response to the pandemic. The scapegoating of others who have no control of the pandemic and which community ultimately praise the costs for the pandemic and so with us on the show today is w Dorado Romo. He's a researcher and the author of a ringside seat to revolution and underground cultural history of El Paso, and is which is available on single prosperous that we joins us today to combat to show W doral Romo. Thank you so much. Is Good to have you with us once again and doesn't probably no way of escaping any news whatsoever as it pertains to the current. Co Ed nineteen pandemic. You know it's affected almost every corner of society both here in the US and abroad. But one thing that's been cited as a frame of reference of valuable one, I would say is the Spanish flu pandemic of nineteen eighteen. Now in recent weeks, politicians and media people have stated that the US has not seen anything like the in pandemic since the Spanish flu of nineteen eighteen. Even you know Donald Trump and self has been cited Spanish flu in his own ignorant ways. I would I would say. But when reasons I want to talk to you was because this soon is the Spanish flu pandemic came up in mainstream media and the first thing that came to mind was Our discussion that we had last year with regards to the bath riots and it gives me the feeling that there's some things missing as it pertains to Race River Garson and the narrative of the Spanish flu pandemic. So a want to know based on what you've seen this far when people sight to space Lou, what do you feel is missing in this important narrative? I think you hit it on the nail. The idea that the pandemic was just a problem of perhaps Just, a a medical problem is something that's usually citing it by these media reports but. Raised and war have a huge part to play in in this. So called Spanish food and I think one of the things that has. Not Been. Looked into as much as. A huge role that the United States played in this called Spanish who I mean I I, I would call it the American sloop because they didn't start in Spain. It actually most of the evidence that we have historically the first official report. Of the Spanish flu was from Pasco County, council. And it was in a in a US military camp. Ford Riley canceled that it I broke out now there's other theories but most of the evidence points to that so this is Not so much the Spanish food at the American flu and I think that has been something that has not been as deeply investigated in many of these. Reports. So the question has to be asked, how did the Spanish flu get its name? If it was actually based here in Kansas as he said. Well. During. World War One, it was censorship. So the when I broke out in March of nineteen eighteen and one military cab. There was hardly anything written about it. It was actually A. A. Cook at the base of contract. And within. A few days there were hundreds of US soldiers? That, That were hit that that excel stake as Devo them died. From the flu. So the reason that is called a Spanish food is because Spain was a neutral country. So they were able to report. The fact that even even some of the most prominent. political figures from Spain were infected contractors to flu. So the name stuck that was the first. Was the first country where there was actually uncensored reporting about the flu to the main stuff but it was. It's also I think this idea of thickness. Always comes from the other side. The His what would you call it? The other association of of disease. You know the. Americans in the very beginning they and some of them playing some of the news sources would blame on the German thinking that it was a form of bacteriological warfare. Germans also had it. And they blamed it on the Russians they call it the the Russian has the Russians blamed on the Chinese everybody blamed on on on someone else the white South Africans called the the copy of. The Black Man Species? So I. Think this is part of. Stigmatization of the other using DC. To kind of Yeah. To stigmatize other racists, other nationality has always been kind of a universal part of this. Funny enough. Even back in nineteen. A lot of the banish medical. So rotation. Would pointed out the unfairness calling the Spanish flu they knew that it had not originated there and they were the first ones to say look you eight is most prevalent right now in the United States why don't we call it? The. American. But there's really was a global DC. It's probably the first or second deadliest in the history of the world killed between fifty two, hundred, million people in the united. States killed six, hundred, seventy, five, thousand people about twenty million people contract. Is. Deceased, and there's really was loved once again. This was this was This is I. Think all the evidence shows that this country was a Spanish starting. Yeah, the research says that quite clearly. Started specifically in. Kansas. Now, obviously, as we're having this conversation now, one of the things that's making headlines Right now is the surge of cases of covid nineteen throughout various parts of of the American south that includes places like Florida and Texas where you're at right now and chief among them is sort of the irresponsible. Actions and reckless behavior of the governors and various. Political leaders in charge in various states, not just in Texas but various reports in the south based on your research. How similar are the irresponsible actions of politicians in places like Texas and Florida today when compared to their counterparts back in nineteen eighteen because the similarities that could be found there can really be striking. Yes I found a lot of these of similarities. So the first response by the local authorities Puzzles Texas and I'm looking. I. My approach to history is what I called. Global, micro history, and so I I take a very small slice of geography is small part of the world. And you said, it's a window too much broader. development. So I am looking at cases, Passover. The US Mexico border, and nineteen. To Kinda, get a glimpse of what was going on in the rest of the world, and so this is repetitive history. The first thing that the mayor of El Paso Sat was don't worry people this is just The flu. There's nothing to worry about it into pass it very quickly not only that some of the medical sources as well. They had there was a doctor round. Was the head of the Red Cross. Who allow this huge mega parade in order to raise money for the Red Cross at this at that time and it was called festival of the Allies and they'd happens between October. Third and October six in nineteen eighteen. Right at the outbreak when you have this seemed forte, no puzzle called Fort Bliss. and. Around that first week, you had eighteen hundred. Soldiers that contract when they had Had come from some of them have returned from Europe others from other parts of the United. States. Yet there was a huge amount of negligence. By both the the political authorities and the health authority allowed this. Huge Festival called the festival of the Allies to take place and they had they started with what they call the monster parade. And it was led by once again Dr W PROWSE and behind him was acquired one hundred voices singing onward Christian soldiers followed by another hundred pass children. Trust and reading I'd that formed the huge cross so it All kinds of blows at that time there were later they had this. Festival with. With a booths. Army jazz band. So Japanese tea garden. Circles there were even minstrel shows which white comedians and black-faced can to be African American. So you had this this extremely contagious. event. And it was all. Not only. By Not only. With the consent of the local houses rankings, but actually led by authorities. So it was once again, this idea of minimizing. DC's that comes from within. US borders. I suppose to the reactions that they would have. When? They precede the deceased to come from outside the US border. So I think most things the initial negligence. When they when the authorities felt something comes from within the borders, the reaction. Bordered on negligence and when they they start that it came from outside. And there's an example. Maybe. We can talk about a little bit. That the typhus epidemic that was seen as coming from Mexico. They have extremely historical reactions even though the death rate was much much lower than what came from. The American food or so called Spanish. Shocking because the first thing that comes to mind as you're saying that right now is rally that Donald? Trump held in Tulsa. Oklahoma. and. Numerous. Images of open beaches with hundreds, not thousands of people in places like Florida and California, and you're right. You know you could see that today right now that people who are still assuming that this is still something foreign. That's something that's not really gonNA hit dare little corner of the country even several trump administration officials are still referring to the current viruses, the Wuhan Virus, and various subtle racist forms of scapegoating. China in this regard another thing that. Really fascinated me about the Spanish flu is that if anyone listening tastes a time to Google the Spanish flu pandemic, you'll see images of people one hundred years ago you know with face mask similar to what wondering right now and And even then it's astounding to me how things were politicized as far as mask wearing during that time as well. It's it's head-scratching enough as it is already see how things have become politicized today. But how were things back then is, for manner, politicization of mass wearing during during the Spanish flu one, hundred years ago. Yeah. I, shook my head when I was looking at some of these. Articles nineteen, thousand nine, the the major cities that that. Really promoted the use of of mass. Against the influenza pandemic, which by the way, it was the same virus as the virus we have today is called the H one. N. One virus. And at that time they thought it was caused by bacteria five bacteria. So there were three fittings really where had very strong ordinances where enforced by fines and jail time. For all its citizens to use the mask and one was Kusan. Arizona, another one San Francisco and another one was partly. And all three cities had huge success in October when and. The pandemic was was at it high in the United States I mean San Francisco really reduced the number of cases real. Substantially because of the use of mouse. But. Just like the day there was an anti mask league. Then that's what they were called an anti mouse. They had a meeting and about two thousand people showed up to one of their. Original meeting and it included some doctors that would say now are unconstitutional. Violation of. Constitutional rights masks are ineffective. It sounded so much like today. So after after November. San Francisco no longer required the mass transit pressure and El. Paso the same El, Paso the only ones that were forced to not forced but required to use mass where the police force nurses. Not, the citizen, not the citizens re but even Paso, there were be a businessman especially. just a kind of an odd point with it was the owners of the local cinema. That had a very strong committee that went up to the mayor and the. Local California and demanded that. The quarantine would end because I'll public spaces were those schools were closed or no palce? Oh, you had social distancing measure very similar but once again, you had the business community. Type thing the economy to the house of the populist. and. So the same thing in in San Francisco although mask it was it was an idea of the constitutionality in Portland. The mayor of that city actually wanted to find people five hundred dollars, which was a lot of money back in one thousand, nine, hundred dollars for violating. The Ordinance Against Mass Query. So. There's so many so many. Similarities between what happened a hundred years ago. And agai- almost using the exact same. The exact. Same arguments. This today and Portland Oregon is also at the center of attention right now, one hundred years later as we're having this discussion in addition to keep in mind while we're talking right now that Donald trump he no re tweeted this week a doctor saying that there's a cure for the coronavirus in there's no need for mask. It really is history repeating itself in the most. Bizarre. Way You. Could Imagine I can imagine because of what what you've done in your research. Now, you just mention people trying to. Speak out against mass or be against mass in the sake of business years mentioned a second ago and it just reminds me of the fact that there's a lieutenant governor in Texas by name, of Dan, Patrick, who has been. Pushing for the state reopening for the sake of business, not for for health, not for any safety measures but for the sake of business for the sake of commerce for the sake of capitalism this is seems to me like something else that's repeating itself, correct? Yes he even though. Back then one hundred years ago didn't seem that it was as. I don't know dishes in. This movement against. You know pretty rational. Shire's quite the opposite. You know there was this Little County Paco's Texas that there was a bridge connecting them to the rest of the world and they were out there with shotguns trying to prevent anybody from coming into their town you know. It almost sounds such a hundred years ago people were. A bit more rational. Than today even though there were places like San Francisco. There was a lot of I guess you would call his competed t you know the mayor's elite Philadelphia for? Also held this huge. Liberty Bond Parade canceled thousands of people showed up. And it it just you know within. Within three days, there were thousands of people that are contracted. The influenza virus and and hundreds who had guide so. There was a lot of stupidity back then, but it almost seems like there's more. Today we haven't really progressed. We've gone backwards Louis. You can only imagine what we could found is there were camera phones during that period of time as well. Just curious. So I wanna ask you unfortunately, things seemed only get worse when we look back during this time period because. There was also an American eugenics movement happening in the early two in the early twentieth century. So are there any parallels where pointing out between the Spanish pandemic end the American eugenics movements? Of the early twentieth century one of the things that we hit on the last time. We spoke was on the bathroom. It's among many things but are the parallels there. You know we're pointing out here. Let absolutely. So the American genyk food how it would have played in these kinds of outbreaks is the idea of the genetic biological physiological inferiority of people of Color. So. For instance in. Alaska. The doctors there saying, well, the the the the inuit people the indigenous people of of this area is dying because they just you know primitive race, the code on. The same thing for any kind of course, the Mexican American here in the US Mexico border even even the Italian communities when if they were. The rates of infection. Ended up being. Higher. was blamed on them, but the truth is here no, Paso. When the first people to contract, it were the US soldiers and they brought it first to the north part of L. Castle among that's predominantly Anglo north of the railroad track. Only. Later when one of the One of the put tunes moved through. South El Paso, or the so called Mexican quarters as they call it back then. that it was a huge outbreak, there was a huge outbreak among the Mexican American community so even though it was really Well the. The white population that's first contract is somehow to blame. Ended up with. With people of Color and that, and you JENEX was a huge part of the somehow they always you know you you blame the victim. Contagion for the contagion itself. And there was. It was huge debate about that even The voice for instance would say you always want to play African American and by the way the site not. At least at the time. The contagion rate among African. Americans for the. For the nine thousand, nine, hundred influencers. Appear to have been much lower than among the white population and there's different families could have been because it was under reported others. Is At. least one just starting to believe that they. The African American population build immunity from the first wave in the spring of nineteen thousand, nine hundred. So there's different. There's different debates and why that happened but regardless of. How it happened even though you know Paso, I started among the white population and then it came down to the Mexican American and Mexican immigrant population somehow the Mexican immigrant population play. So in the month of October, alone six hundred Paso and died as a result of the influence, a lot of children. In south. El Paso died because they were already. Infected with other. Diseases because of poverty. But this idea of eugenics. Being, an essential part of how pandemics Are Treated is something that that definitely has some kind of counterpart today I mean do here trump using that rhetoric that the reason There is so much There's so much covid nineteen on the border somehow because it's Mexico salt. And that wasn't inevitable that I already knew I was going to blame China. And when it was to his advantage, he was going to blame somehow the the Mexican immigrants. And the truth is if you read some of these articles by the New York, times for instance, it's actually is in very different patients. That are helping to spread. Kobe nineteen. Not only domestically. But by deporting some people that that were already that when they got here, they contract in departing them back to countries at least eleven countries around the world. That have confirmed cases that. separatation are sending people who contract the disease here. So once again, this idea of blaming. The victim of contagion for for causing originating. Mullah. For example, is exhibit a of what what you just mentioned right there. We'll take a quick break right here. But when we return, we'll discuss a brief recap of the bathroom rights which took place during the Spanish flu pandemic and the case of the typhus outbreak that our guest mentioned today as well. So we're speaking with W Dora rumour he's the author of ringside seats a revolution in underground cultural history of El Paso and Varda's available on. IOS press. This is the Latino media collective. We're GONNA take a quick break right. Back with more in a minute stay tune. act. that. Was El Chicano and you're listening to Latino. Media Collective Yawn WPF W eighty nine point three FM Washington reminding everyone did you could check us out on our website which is Latino media collective dot com that's Latino media collective dot com. You can also follow us on twitter name at L. AMC underscore show that is at L. AMC underscore show, and, of course, live on WPF wfan Dot Org, WPF W FM that or. Once again, this is Oscar Fernandez and we're speaking about the Spanish flu fact versus fiction. In addition, we'll be talking about the follow up to the one year anniversary of the shooting in El Paso Texas and we're speaking with W Dorado Romo. He's the author to a ringside seat to a revolution. And underground cultural history of L. Pestle and what is available in Cinco Puntos press. So W Dora Romo WanNa talk to you. Now to give people a reminder of our last discussion if you tell us about the dangerous chemicals us on Mexicans, doing the bath riots, which was happening right about this right about the time of the Spanish pandemic around nineteen eighteen and how these practices made their way to Nazi Germany, and actually before you answer that I want to direct people listening to our website. Latino media collective DOT COM to listen to our discussion last year on the bath writing. No Paso Texas. But how did these dangerous chemicals made their way from the backfired? Paso to Nazi Germany. Yeah. That's that's a very interesting. Question in terms of. I. Think what happens a year before in one thousand, nine, hundred, seventeen year before the Spanish flu outbreak helps US contextualize eugenics movement the kind of the racial public health policies by local and national officials. Help. US explain Canada's disparity these these two different ways of treating. Outbreaks that come from within the borders and outside of the borders this and so in one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, nine, hundred, seventeen back from south puzzle was the target of massive cleanup campaigns under the direction of General John pershing. The commander of Fort Bliss and later he would be the commander of. The expedition to capture Pancho later of the American Expeditionary Forces during World War One. And then you also have Dr J. Tap. He was the local director of the US Public Health Service, and you have comedy senior the mayor of Paso who later with. One of the most prominent members of the Ku, Klux Klan in the city. and. So their cleanup campaign included Gatien's as well as. Head shavings of residents that were found to carry lies in mascow demolitions of hundreds of homes in the window valued. As the Mexican section the so called Mexican section was called got time. And at that time, there was was a fear of the state of type is from central Mexico in nineteen seventeen. However, there were less than ten reported guests. From type of the city of possible. number no greater than the. Rate in most large American cities. But the sensationalist reports. So the danger of from Mexico was reported with alarming bowl headlines all the time in the front pages. And Mayor Tommy senior call for even more drastic action that required working border crosses from Mexico. To undergo. Humiliating delousing process at the Septa fainting national bridge with with the use of noxious chemicals. Later Those chemicals would include. psyched. Ron. which to Cuma Gate the close of the. Of the border crossings, which as you had an impact in world shell get. Back to that specific. A little later. But so mayor calmly himself was guilty afraid of contracting of. So much so that he used to wear silk underwear because there was a fellow doctor. Dr One of the Doctors of the local health board. Tell them that That lives does not stink. So he was so afraid of of being contaminated by Mexican lies that he would. Use. It was kind of protective. Guess and Lee never contracted. But in October nineteen eighteen, the former mayor and his son tumbling junior confined to their beds after have con- contractors influence? Virus. So that the Conan delousing feel pesawat is border that mayor Lee has instituted continued on and offered naked to come long after the price of scare had dated. September twenty seven thousand nine, hundred a few days before. The festival the allies, this contagious festival that I just talked to you about doctor captain according to the. Order that allport across from what he's again required to undergo fumigation. And that was because one case of crisis have been discovered in what? And then later, he rescinded his orders because there was a large group of protesters. From what? Gathered at the international crossing and he and other El Paso. Authorities fears that the repetition of the nineteen seventeen bath rights when more than two thousand women had waged the small uprising after refusing to submit themselves to the gasoline best and and and and yes. In my previous conversation I went into that These right. By a young a seventeen year old woman from what in company. So. Here we're seeing the contrast that I just talked about about the health, the public health responses by US officials when prices between typhus and influenza when the deceased had to foreign origins. The response was hysterical. And when it had a domestic one. It was just a case of negligence. Really. And one thousand, nine, hundred PASO officials. Foolishly, reassured city residents. What turned out to be the deadliest pandemic and world history was. They put it no cause for alarm. Yet they were willing to administer humiliating harmful kerosene does and later different sections with DDT and SICOM be. And this case in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighteen September just based on one case of typhus. So you right. There you can't I mean. Spirited cannot be more clear, and once again, I talked about cyclone. Yet in my research for my book, I found some documentation and libraries in the archives up in the National Archives. how? German. Pest control scientists. Were looking. To other places around the world where cyclops was being used to fumigate and to control the border. And there were several photos of how it was being used in. El. Paso beginning in nineteen, twenty nine. To negate the close of Mexican border crosses and how that was used to kind of bolster its use in. And I in German borders than in Nazi concentration camps to disinfect the inmate. and. Later in concentrated does is to actually kill them. Once again I encourage everyone to listen to our episode from last year on the bathroom swift. Read a Romo. To get more details on this because it is quite chilling. Now Here we are discussing the bath riots, the Spanish flu pandemic of Nineteen Eighteen, and also the American Jenex movement which was rising during this early half of the twentieth century. All these things what are together or separately did they have in any way influence in the creation of the Immigration Act of Nineteen, twenty four there was to follow. That's a complicated question. It's intricate. It isn't like there's a direct relationship say the flu by itself establish influence. By itself somehow. affected nineteen, twenty four. Immigration Act the movement definitely get I mean the. All the directors of the American Jenex Movement would testify before congressional committees and with all kinds of. misleading. So House by TYPIC- EVIDENCE Of the kinetic and fewer to the biological inferiority of immigrants there. So this idea of almost agnostic fear of contamination and how. Piece in here your genetic people. Were going to contaminate the pure racial stock of America the Nordic stock. was very much part. Of. How I, it was the underlying motive I would say for the nineteen twenty. Four. Immigration Law that later instituted the border patrol. So it's it's it's something that does have. In the general scheme of things. Impact. But once again, the influence age self. was. Not seen primarily even though they tried to blame it on. People of Color. I mean even even at that time they knew that it hadn't come from from Mexico for even staying that this was something that from within the borders so I wouldn't take a direct connection but. I do I do find for instance, right after the second and third wave. Of. The nineteen eighteen influenza. You see a rise of lynchings. And Race Life you have the red summer of. Nineteen thousand nine hundred. Nineteen twenty. You have the rights of the clocks. Throughout the United States that begins in one, thousand, nine, hundred fifteen but really it is around nine, hundred and twenty. Where you have. Spread like wildfire all over the United States. And I. Think. Indirectly I mean as we see right now you know these hot summer. The social isolation periods where people kind of Go crazy innocence and once they're out again. They. May laid out all the stuff they had insight, right? So, you could say that influence manifestation of a spiritual. Malays. And dispatch days was caused by war racist in this extreme Sinoe phobia nationalism, the war hysteria going on. Racism Basically Warren Racism. Wanted the spiritual Malays that that created. The physical fitness, the physical disease that. That's how I would view it, and that's how I would be the connection because had it not been for World War One I don't know if the influence the day make with as being as widespread because America for instance was sending two hundred and fifty thousand soldiers per month. And they would go and ships like the Leviathan where you had. Two Thousand and four thousand of the soldiers. That had contracted the flu several hundred were dying. They were dropping off. Nearly all over the world right in Europe but in other ports around the world and then be influencing what spread like wildfire in those places. So the US military was the perfect. Vector. To incubate disease and to spread it to disseminated around the world. So in a sense war. had a very very direct in. On On the flu in here was the US. Military. That was supposed to bring democracy to the rest of the world, but they actually caused more deaths when once again, fifty million to one hundred million people died. and. Probably, one third of the world contract. This virus And? Probably, no other institution, no other force no other country played such a huge role in the United States and specifically the US military. Well. That's A. Dark. Example of US imperialism, not social distancing not wearing a mask and not. Doing all the safety precautions that we are supposed to be doing ourselves. Is just dark to see you know that we still have a long road ahead as regards to the current pandemic that we're facing right now I want to turn your attention now to. El Paso. The shooting took place in El Paso last year this August marks to one year anniversary of the mass shooting in El Paso, Texas largest mass shooting targeted against Latinos, and it's a pretty shocking chain of events. When you consider that that same weekend, there was also a mass shooting in Dayton Ohio. That same month last year there was another one, another mass shooting targeting Latinos in Gilroy. California and let's not forget that two thousand nineteen was particularly a nasty you when it comes mass shootings another one outside the US I would point out would be the Christ church shooting in New Zealand last year as well. You know it all points to racism and xenophobia to its lowest denominator and so. There's still a lot of challenges facing immigrants right now and I wonder if you could tell us about the challenges still face. By emigrants in western Texas on top of this current pandemic has also you know less year does this conversation about whether or not? You know the Margaret detention centers in places like Texas are like concentration camps I'll say it in the affirmative the are concentrating cast but again, looking reflecting on what happened one year later, you know there's still a lot of there's still an uphill battle to be fought. Oh God. You know year when sessions came to Council Paso, he called the pesawat is bordered ground zero. For the immigration. War. And Right now, there is no doubt that there's a war. That's going on that has been going on the border for a long long time. And now the chickens are coming home to roost Oh. All the brutality of the state. Apparatus? That has inflicted. Decades and decades more than one hundred years of violence is now being exported. To the rest of the country and I think you could see with this lead. Border Patrol tactical. Swat that is. Doing its. Share of violence in provocation in places like Portland. And that's something that we faced for a long time I mean it goes back to the lynchings of hundreds of people in along the US Mexico border by the five Texas Rangers the Border Patrol. Has. been killing hundreds of people Per, year and we're talking since its inception right in nineteen, twenty four. There's been. The most important thing I think is this the vision miss the viciousness and the the logical violence as they call it in such terms for saying. The penalty, the narrative. That have been used against immigrants. And against people the border. Once. Again, and for decades or even longer for hundreds of years, we go back all the way to the native Americans that were here So. Now, it's just the crystallization for a long time. It it. It seems to have been contained. And now it spreads like. Wildfire. So these These mass murders. That have happened these massacres that happened here and they'll pass on August third. I had one friend who was killed lost his life there and two others at least two others that were inside survived it. Day Affect us all but it's not something. Recent. I mean, it is a manifestation. It's a full. Explosion of something that would just barely underneath the national consciousness. And now it's affected everybody just inevitable. You Know Martin Luther King set that. Injustice in any part of the world strategic injustice anywheres threat to justice everywhere. and. That's what has happened on the border for a long time as long as there was only immigrant. People who weren't even considered fully human nature dehumanize the elite. Not. As aliens or something from another world. The same treatment that was. Can Use against him. is now inevitably being used against everyone else in this country. And I think that's the major last February that we've learned that it was ground zero. And now, it's everywhere the border is everywhere the state violence against the people of color you on the border. Now, being used against everyone else. That was a good point to make because they are. Border Patrol officials that have been you know spotted in Portland Oregon Portland Oregon and and now I think as you just said, people are. You know are starting to see how they really operate when they deal with immigrants. It's just sad and. In some ways quite infuriating that need to be targeted towards Americans for people to start taking notice the the horrific nature of how border patrol. Officials. Treat immigrants. When they tried to come to this country, and this is why we want to talk about El Paso because obviously we're in the middle of the pandemic but I feel like cord media's not gonNA give. This one year anniversary. The same attention that it deserves because as you said before, these are still going on, they have not been resolved. Gun Control has certainly not been dealt with in any serious manner despite of all these nasty shootings that we saw last year. So this is why it's up to independent media outlets like. Like the Latino collective I would say an independent journalists and researchers such as yourself to keep these you know stories relevant important and in the consciousness of of the public. So we're almost out of time w about four minutes left. So before we let you go, are there other issues and lessons from the Spanish from pandemic we should draw. In order to face the pandemic facing today. Oh. My God. I mean. There's so much. I'm actually actually writing a book on this and right now my tentative. Title is called the year the world got sick. War Race in one thousand nine hundred. Influence pandemic on US Mexico border. So. My my Lord I mean. There are so many lessons. There's so much to learn, and it's so difficult to do it I. Thank you so much for how on the show. But we're just touching the surface of of what needs to be learned from the past repetitive history, but I think the One of the lessons and I'm not sure if that's the most important. But one of the lessons that here we have. A country that for so long has is taking the draconian measures to protect itself. From the rest of the world. But it was really the rest of the world that. Should have been protecting itself from us. All along. I. Think that's a very important thing to remember. We believe we're very quick. To play mothers. For what's happening to us? We've exported it and I think the the. The nineteen eighteen influenza was a case in point that would deadliest events. In the history of the world really I mean maybe only the. Black. Plague of the thirteen hundred compares some people say sixty million people died during that. If you accept the figure that one hundred million people die doing the. Nine, thousand, nine, hundred, and pandemic. and. That was the deadliest. Events in the history of the world. And getting started in. Any, place else started here. So I think we have to look inward. and rather than. Spend so much time trying to protect ourselves from others. Maybe, we should have a bit of. Conscious. We should be conscious of. What we're exporting the rest of the world, we should look within ourselves. Not to others for the boots of our problems. I think that's probably the most important. Lesson we have to draw. You're certainly right that we've only just reached the tip of the iceberg as far as what can we learn from this whatever it may be. One thing is clear. There's no week we could go back. And naively live the way our our lives used to be at all. It's just naive and dangerous to think that in any way shape or form, we've been speaking with W Dorado Romo. He's the author of ringside seats were revolution an underground cultural history of El Paso and. Available on CINCO PUTO spruce. The VEDRA Rommel as always it's been a pleasure. Thank you very much for being on show once again. Thank you. It's an honor. Thank you so much absolutely with that said that for today's show. Everyone that you could check out this episode and our previous episodes on own website, which is Latino to collect a dot com. You can also follow us on twitter at the name at L.. MC. And of course, live on Wbz if w FM that orgy. So on behalf of my co-producer Abby Roberts this is Oscar Fernandez saying thank you very much everyone for listening to his show. That's it for today show at. Chow. Just.

United States Mexico El Paso flu Texas Dorado Romo El Paso Donald Trump twitter El Paso Texas Border Patrol Oscar Fernandez Paso Kansas Paso DC San Francisco scapegoating Washington
Undocumented and LGBTQ (Part 6)

Latino Rebels Radio

57:38 min | 1 year ago

Undocumented and LGBTQ (Part 6)

"Hey guys who lyrical Luella here. Latino rebels radio Sunday January fifth were taken another week off. We'll be back next week. But in the meantime our friends at the Latino media collective gave give us one of their shows so here they are. Let's media collective on with you know rebels radio and the it took. Yeah uh-huh take it. Yeah Yeah Awesome. uh-huh you've got an readings. Greetings greetings manuals that dominated the Washington all points beyond this is Oscar Fernandes. And you're listening to a Latino Media Calico recorded did the studios are WPF w eighty nine point three FM Washington and. He's to Columbia here on this Friday November first two thousand Nineteen Russell also heard on the Internet on own website. which is Latino media collective DOT COM? You can also find us on twitter. The name at L.. MC underscores show and of course live live on WPF WWL FM that orgy WBZ FW FM Dot. Org once again. This is Oscar Fernandez today on a show. We'll continue our special series on the undocumented and LGBTQ experience the marginalized group within the marginalized group the caravan within the caravan. And on this episode we spend the hour remembering while the unsung heroes in documenting the Latinos. LGBTQ community the late. Great Professor Horatio Rookie Ramirez recognized by his peers as a scholar of the invisible able and forgotten. The work of Amita shows how close to the front lines the Latinos Lgbtq community really was to the beginnings of the AIDS AIDS epidemic in one thousand nine hundred eighty s during his academic career. He helped bring ideas like queer survival and queer theory three to Latinos academia as a result a younger generation of Latina scholars have taken his teachings and research urge to further raise awareness of the struggle for Latinos. LGBTQ rights both here and abroad horatio sure rookie. Ramirez may no longer be with us but his legacy lives on thanks to help scholars and independent journalists like today's guests so we're I was in studio. Today is Giuliani Album Inga. He's a freelance writer for the body DOT com. He has a two thousand eighteen. Obituary entitled Remembering Horatio Roquette Roquette Ramirez and. He joins us again in studio today. Welcome to show Giuliani album anger. Thank you so much for having me Oscar and actually is good to have you with us because we had you right about this time last year as well in this undocumented and the LGBTQ Sary's so it's actually great to meet you in person here. It's really nice to be here. I Love ACM excited to to you. Know what else you ain't GonNa like share the work that he's done. I know a lot of people have a connection and feel very I'm saddened over the fact that he left us. Oh abruptly but they're still so much to talk about so much to honor so thank you for having me. Yeah it's been four years years since his passing and it's not an understatement to say these unsung heroes in this type of academia. So let's just start right there. Let's go straight to the million dollar question for those people who do not know even those within the Lgbtq community who was ratio rocket. AMEDEE's Yes yes. So professor will get Ramirez was a gay Salvadorian man who grew up in Los Angeles His his sister is actually a reporter. She works for I don't know if it's either Telemundo. Only these young. She's very well known in the Los Angeles community as a reporter as an anchor and Yeah so he he definitely left behind a legacy of like Central American identity especially in Los Angeles because an and also me having grown up in east Los Angeles you know like he his his legacy and what he wrote about also really resonates with a lot of us. Queer Central Ngel Americans who grew up in so cal and so even though his research also took place in San Francisco area. Because that's where he did his research he went to ooh Berkeley and then He. He's just started to like a lot of what he did. As a Grad student came from interviewing queer people in Seon John who are like you know Latinos and honestly like Lemme cion also has like that very similar quality that Los Angeles folks have you. You know it's definitely about being with Winnie that and and just being able to like walks the streets and you kind of feel the sense that you're at home especially with like the dialogue log that you hear. And and the people that you encounter and so. His research really did heavily focused on Queer Latino Latino folks living in the mission and how. HIV played such a huge role back then especially in his time. When this was a very new MM situation that people were going through very different than my own generation now I I became HIV positive in a time when there was now medicine. Edison that you could become undetectable back then. Undetectable wasn't even a word. People would have thought that they could accomplish. You know and so it was definitely a different world world than I appreciate that. He was brave enough to sue. Take those stories with him and and be the scholar of the invisible and your article recall also brought to my attention this particular field of Latino. LGBTQ -demia is really very lively more so on the a west coast in it is perhaps here in the east coast and rookie dummied is is is a fine example of that so one of his works that you mentioned in in your article remembering him is essay entitled that this this desire for queer survival this desire for queer survival. Can you tell us about this. I say 'cause you actually read it you yes so this essay he He he really does talk a lot about his His struggles with with with his research and also being like understanding himself as a gay Salvadoran Person. You know it's a very personal almost like manifesto memoir for that he writes and it's very intimate and well written and this is actually one of the few pieces of writing that I have where I feel like. I can deeply connect with Osceola because like I said before though he did guide me along with some of my research. He wasn't Santa Barbara when I was an Undergrad at Berkeley so we didn't really get a chance to see each other a lot. You know I would write to him. Every so often he would respond. He would give me a list of readings that I could. You know. Brush up on for the work that I was doing because I was doing a summer fellowship at the time and I was doing research around Queer Central American Literature Quranic literature and so he was just giving me some riders to brush up on some queer riders that could connect with and so those were the few interactions that I had with us and so reading this memoir. I feel like I got to see another side of him a little bit more intimate outside of like corresponding talking about research. This is definitely something more intimate that he was sharing for people to understand and what really really resonates with me and this is obviously me reading this article. After his passing was something kind of reading between the lines. You could sense where he was talking about how. I don't want academia to kill me because he also shared how you know. He had lost people as well along this way. And it just really resonated with me because it just told me how violent these institutions are. How institutional racism can really grapple you and That's actually something that I'm personally dealing with in my law school too so now coming from that perspective and understanding how it is to be Queer Central American person person in the spaces and the politics of it all can be very consuming. And what do you do. What are your healthy outlets? You know so. Even though he was no longer with us I always see him as one of my ancestors. One of my mentors and for better for worse you know I I understand that he was battling demons and so so and things that he had you know and so for me. It's always like regardless of that like understanding him as a mess throat. Like what would what could I do. Also to navigate situation nations similar to the ones he may be had faced in as in these institutions. And so that that article that that piece of writing that he wrote was just just very well written and intimate for me absolutely and this is precisely wanted to reasons why we do this undocumented and Lgbtq series to bring the spotlight to unsung heroes like Horatio Rookie Ramirez and I myself may not be as you queue but as a student of journalism. Listen one of the things in your article in remembering him. They really caught my attention. That really excited me. As as far you're seeing how does can be used a right way. In a productive way is perhaps to USA bitchy raise in documenting the Latinos Sergio Btcu community. I wonder if you could walk us through Horatio's method of using obituaries as a means of documentation. And before you answer that the reason this stimulates me is because for lack of better term. I was taught in journalism school that you know studying or or in this case covering the obituaries the graveyard shift of newspapers in that. You know it's a lot of sadness and heartbreak conveyed in in documenting documenting these sort of things but at the same time as journalists. This is information. That's in the public record. And based on what rookie administed very very valuable information as a result can so. Can you walk us through this this use of obituaries in documentation yes so his methodologies were very very unique nique and I know that must have not been easy to document these stories. As a matter of fact I remember doing my research and recalling that one of his colleagues who he wrote the book with Roy wrote a book with had mentioned that Yeah he almost felt like he was carrying a burden and I can understand that because vicarious trauma commas very real you know feel like no matter what we do have your review doing If you're taking down obituaries interviewing people about sensitive topics wchs or like in other cases lake for example doing immigration work you're taking down testimonies like declarations like people's stories can really affect you in in a way where it can take you to a dark place and so that like carry us trauma I feel is very important to recognize when people are doing this type of work so that it won't consume you. I feel that what else you really did. Go through that kind of experience on top of personal things that he went through but he you know he he he definitely he did take down stories from people who were forgotten essentially right. These were people that were queer undocumented poor living in the streets streets Possibly just kind of getting through getting by and had it not been for his research his this sort of like queer understand and this this demographic of queer identities wouldn't really have been honored the way that we would have had been for us you know and I think that that was really really important about his research and also recognizing that this research wasn't easy for him to do spiritually absolutely and and again. I cannot understate the importance of using obituaries to do this sort of documentation because people may not read newspapers as often as they I used to but this is information. That's in the public record and again you know speaks volumes to how much rich information even if it is you know at times depressing and sad is still valuable for the general public to understand what happened to this community especially when we talk about. PUT The AIDS epidemic in the eighties and nineties. Especially you know because otherwise we're talking about a period that there was no social media. There was no youtube or or facebook to document these things as easily as we can now in this in this day and age And and just to add a little bit to that too though because you make such a great point when we're talking about this area before you know social media came about and around this time we had like the HIV epidemic. Right so a lot of people were already kinda like dine from what I've read and understood and also from what people have told me elders. There's right you know the San Francisco. The Castro was completely empty. It was a it was deserted. Nobody would go there every now and then you may be you go to a bar to. You'd see some people just kind of like this like Salkin just kind of like sad and and depressed and maybe Mourning the death of a friend right right because they just started just dying numbers and sometimes because of the stigma behind their deaths. They wouldn't even tell you what happened to them. But you could imagine and you can already tell that. Maybe something happened to them. That maybe their family or friends may be too embarrassed or shy to share but that they they definitely died because of this this shadow right the shadow of eight AIDS coming through and I think that that's another reason why his work is. It's just so important like he took it upon himself to make sure that people were recognized and I think that speaks volumes. I feel like someone who can empathize a nicer way being HIV positive. And just. I can't even imagine what it would be like to be in that time but now being being alive right now and and just wishing to be remembered I think is what is so. What's so raw about what his work was about? Like just the fact that he took it upon himself to remember these people is what makes it really incredible. And that's why I I WANNA remember him too because he was such an he was such an amazing easing person in an. I'm sure other people who work closely with him. Like his men like his men t some estimate through here. WHO's now a bad profess SORTA SORTA out into Paul? I understand it must be really hard for her to share things about asks you because that was her adviser you know but I'm pretty sure that she's doing doing the work that she does now because of him as well because he inspired her in a way you know it's not so often the Dow do like movie recommendation during the course service show but there's this film called deemed Aroha which is two thousand film. which is a slash Spanish Peruvian production? And it's about a reporter doing the obituary shift at a newspaper. And I the reason I bring this up because during the course of of your of your obituary on Racial Rocket Amir's reminded me about character in that film who ultimately gets consumed by the sometimes depressing nature of covering obituary so anyone listening dean thorough. Ha I highly recommend it because I think it lends itself to someone what we're discussing year one of the things that he also brought up during the course of his of his work during his lifetime was his organization caught breaked controversy. That what we that. So can you tell us what that is definitely so this is definitely a grass. Roots Community led organization that started in the mission in San Francisco and it was actually a project that many academics activists and artists took upon themselves. Komo Ricardo Gradual Are- guess who is actually a professor at At Berkeley she was actually. I was in her department and Gender Women's studies credible woman A professor out here by the name of regard these are really close. He's also queer like hurry some cool vinyls and so really great people to bring back some. DC folks into the mix mix really cool person and so and yeah. She took it upon herself. Granada's CEO and Ricardo and a few other folks in the community and and and making the program that really brought about HIV awareness aides to be sex positive to come from a place where you're not following this this These these this stomach way of like approaching public health and really coming in in a way. That's very innovative innovative. You know I feel that the way that they spoke about the work maybe the way that they would bring it out like a gatherings or you know within people in the community really. It wasn't so much I feel like may have been more of a collective than something that you would normally now see him public health spaces and I think I think that was just a way of understanding one's own lived experiences at that time and how you could Survive in a away like really finding ways to survive with within this. I mean I can't even imagine but could could picture it being very grassroots and how the were trying to bring in the the community better especially in places where where it was maybe predominantly Latino. You know I'm thinking like sixteenth and mission twenty four th thin mission out there in SF you know and just kind of like bringing about that conversation And it's funny. Because as I as I mentioned these places. I'm picturing and and I just I would I would love I mean I can't really put myself in those shoes because I wasn't alive back then biddle just to try and imagine what that would have been like you know what would it have been like to work alongside them or like In that time like I'm thinking eighties nineties. Now maybe yeah. It was already alive in the nineties. I'm trying to imagine though like a time when San Francisco was going through that type of epidemics actually and it's I imagine it was very difficult now only that but for Central American Lgbtq migrants at that time you had the dark cloud of the numerous civil wars taking place in the eighties during during this time. So I tell Kenyan yeah like my mentor for them from the body that like the HIV epidemic and what happened within countries Houston Center Central. America really was going. Choke like a clash. It just happened in that kind of like era that Ronald Reagan era. And it's it's just a lot that we were going through right US community and by community. I mean communities right someone who could identify another spaces assist to and so that is something that needs to be written about more and just focused on an and I'm sure they're scholarship going going on around that but I really do hope that what what is your has left behind. Is this legacy and this thirst to understand. are Queer Central American identities and Whoever decides to take upon that type of research I I hope that they do good work and they showed us? You just sort of like remember those that came before us because when I do work I try to be mindful of that at least to who I be like. Yeah this is definitely a different era. Different lived experience then what other people have faced. And so how can I understand what they've gone through. What can I learn? What can I say? And what can I do to honor that you know. Yeah we'll not did you brought it up. What is Queer sent American studies as you interpreted it in your article because it's it seems like You know it's very easy to document things in recent times with the The the means of modern communication. How far back the eagles though as far as the nineties and eighties but again going back arisen question what is Queer Central American studies as as you interpreted food the work of rocket Amirah is and how you go go food yourself because there's a lot going on even right now as we speak when it comes to the plight of Lgbtq people in Central America yes and quite honestly right now? I feel like I'm a little out of the loop in academia. I haven't really been there. I'm in law school and so I can't really speak about the these spaces anymore as much as when I was in Undergrad and I thought I was going to go down that route but my Pena is also another incredible incredible Queer Guatemalan academic artist. Who is doing great work in California and she would be someone just a source of knowledge someone to talk to I also wanted like just give a shout out to Lacey Chabert. Who is Salvadoran professor? Ucla let me stop of your Derek. Because she's been on my radar for some time as as far as being on the show at least see. If you're listening saddles shut out to Lucy. Right there. Go Go ahead yeah. She's also just another ally. When you think about allies you really Central American allies? I think lacy is definitely someone that can really just give view that type of support and I even quote her in my article because she uses what else he was still especially when she was trying to talk about Queer Central American identities entities. Because that's something that with us. You always left for her to understand. I feel like maybe he didn't necessarily like like teacher like anything directly actually but just his presence alone really inspired her to learn more herself you know and that goes back to what we said at the beginning that although he may be gone. Many other scholars scholars have taken his his research and and carried it forward. Correct correct exactly. And that's what. I hope that this continues to happen right and I feel like that's what my trained to do right now. She's coming out with a book and she's honoring us well. So you know it takes a village you know like you stomas plant length and then we just see it grow you know and that's where we're at right now. Yeah absolutely because our model here is that there's no struggle for social justice too small that it doesn't deserve our attention you know from just one person holiday short rocket. I'm meters now. We have as you mentioned already. Several other scholars others in this similar field that have carried his his research forward and to now knee advance it but to expand upon it as as well. We're speaking with Julia Neale Ginga. He's a freelance writer for the body Dot Com we're speaking about the undocumented in LGBTQ experience this is a Latino media collective. We're GONNA take a quick break right here back with more than minute. Stay tuned Uh Soon it Think unless you leave it or Sedan de the city is Washington state wouldn't homage It even led the SORTA. It is situated. is they get sir. Yeah the contract and that was the more on. You're listening to Latino media collective yawn. WPF W eighty nine nine point three FM Washington reminding everyone that you could check us out on own website. which is Latino media collective DOT COM? You also follow us on twitter at in the named at MC underscores showed that is at L. MC underscores show and of course live on WBZ FM dot org that's WB FW FM Dot Org. Once again this is Oscar Fernandez. And you're listening to the undocumented in LGBTQ series on a Latino media collective the caravan within the caravan. And we're speaking with Giuliani Alvarenga. WHO's a freelance writer for body DOT COM and we speak about the late great horatio rookie dummies? So let's try to apply S- Summer Ramirez is teachings and an idea as to what's going on Andrei now in this present moment time with regards to you know the as it's called the immigration crisis and we've touched touchstones several stories with regards to discrimination against LGBTQ migrants coming to the US whether be from Salvador Honduras. Or what. Where have you so in your opinion? How would you apply? Ramirez work in trying to understand the plight of undocumented. LGBTQ Hugh migrants today. Because one of the first names of the comes to mind and one that we've covered several times here is death of transmigrants Alexander Nandes under under ice custody unfortunately several other similar type cases have taken place under. US attention so give us your thoughts. Here yeah yeah I think that like he would be really good at capturing people's stories and making sure that that readers would understand what took replace. who was this person? Why did they die? And they're in the people that he interviewed were very much queer marginalized people transgender folks folks. Who may not even make it in mainstream? LGBT spaces right because of the fact that they're migrants and they're not white and so I feel like he really just. I just tried to like challenge like a a more a more like mainstream. LGBT Lens as well as challenging Central American Latin Americans is right and and understanding and recognizing that there are people are dying. You know that for example in this case was on during the DACA threat and that she represented the under in community as a whole and that the enduring community needs to recognizer and the H.. Like that like you know this this this more mainstream. LGBT platform also needs to recognize her. You know that she is also just as valuable as a matter of Matthew. Shepard kind of person you know that she died there was an injustice that was done to her and we need to remember people collectively as as as as our communities you know so I feel like he definitely challenged that intersection. That S is it chocolate right of of different identities and he tried to like make visible their their history their lived experiences. And I think that it's I'm really glad that Roxana that people recognize Roxana. Is this community. This was a community effort people to recognize the death of of of a trans ends woman who died the complications of HIV in detention center. She's not the first to have suffered there have been about maybe eighteen or more deaths under ice due to h complications. And it's one of those things where by obligation they need to treat people who who who need treatment right who Who may need HIV treatment? Those conditions are terrible and the journey itself just takes a lot out of you. Oh I haven't had a chance to accompany folks in the caravans but having been in the WanNa firsthand. Having been in the shelters in the motorcity WanNa LaSalle baristas. I could see firsthand just how draining that that journey must have been for people how dehydrated people were how little resources that they had shoes. WHO's close CETERA? Those things and I can imagine that that journey really have had taken a toll on her body and then I wonder had she been taking her medicine thin and so you know those are the things that U s people who are HIV positive and have the capacity to take care of themselves Tried to recognize. It's like taking my medicine in my And my healthy how am I doing. What's my body telling me? And so and then I can only imagine that journey that she took gone you know with or without medicine and so when she was finally detained I feel like her body in the condition that she was going through really was just like I can't take this anymore. You know especially if the guards were mistreating. Her and physically abusing her when after the topsy in addition we had your call the Kenyan feral. Who's WHO's the senior editor for the body dot com with us on the show some time ago and he pointed out rightfully still that under? US Law migrants are supposed to be given medical treatment especially for conditions like HIV AIDS in among among other diseases. So this is just lends itself more to to the lack of humanity and and dare I say criminality of the immigration system here in the US. You just reminded me that we spoke to you. You write about this time last year when you were in Doina or right along the border when when this whole thing went down where Border Patrol blee was shooting shooting. Tear gas at migrants. At this time. Yeah actually I was there that day I wasn't I wasn't there by the river where they were teargas correct. No I wasn't the one that yeah I could see the helicopters shooting at people or I don't know how he went through. But I could see helicopters in that part of the area. I didn't really At that moment I didn't understand what was going on. I was at on in Glavic goal. which is the space where literally helps a lot of the migrants going on on? That are that are coming through so I was just helping with some intakes and stuff but I recall that there was a group of folks because this was right around November. So yeah we're getting close to that date. This was in November when that happened A group of of migrants from the caravans were GONNA do a demonstration right by the border. And that's when the. US started needed tear-gas seen into Mahyco which is a huge. Like human rights violation right there like that's like almost you know I don't know what that would be in terms of international laws but they definitely violated Sunday and You see the images right you see the women fleeing with the children yes and and It's just it's just really discussing. That had to happen. But then when you're on the other side of the border and may go I remember when we were trying to get to Tie the Otay border. We had to go back to the space because the pull the Mexican police were coming through and at that point I saw them putting on like their ski masks. Their ski masks guide their face and at that point I was like that does not look good. That does not look good and so we mmediately got back in the car and we drove back into WHO Downtown WanNa you know what would be the Komo set cover Mussa said and so we were just hanging out there until the the coast was clear. But you know I just remembered having this image in my head of all these police officers in their pickup trucks and these like Mexican police peace officers with ski masks on Shooting Rubber Bullets at people you know that was a very like I had never seen anything like that. You know. Yeah anyone who's ever been to lend America. America has seen something that is very real when you see at first hand but unfortunately I would have to say that in the case of El Salvador. You're you know the struggle for LGBTQ rights isn't GonNa get necessarily any better because there's a new president in Salvador who ducked ducked and dived regards to the question of LGBTQ rights. Before he was elected president returned neighbor Kelly here and now he has been present and a short time. He's cut various social programs some of which included programs that promoted women's rights and LGBTQ rights as well. And if we are to be honest here and I think Rocard. I'm you're SORTA leads to this is that we could say this from one. Sapna uh-huh into another that. There's a lot of transphobia and homophobia within Salvadoran Society that's very accepted open and normalize allies. There's a reason why on this show we call this community. The marginalized group within the margin is group. Not just because it's a fact but because it's an inconvenient convenient fact in an uncomfortable reality of of of society particularly Salvadoran Society that we're both a part of the Russell sort of embarrassed about in this. There's a lot of honesty. I think that rookie Amir's Lewd St. They're in that aspect correct. I I would definitely agree with you because there is like this my cheesman like this toxic masculinity that that's alive and well in the Salvadoran during communities unfortunately and it's a it's I don't know like really to what extent certain people can share the lived experience. But I've definitely seen that firsthand with with my father who I no longer talk to Ray and it's been years and so it's just one of those things where you kind of understand I try to make sense of it in in a way. I'm thinking like you know that Trans Generational Trauma that was bestowed upon our families that that made us run away from our country entering the first place. I tried to make sense of the violence. Maybe that they've witnessed To to to get a better grasp as to why they are the way they are. You know but I haven't really had a chance to to understand the anymore than I can at this point but I do know very well that you know. It's this much is more is like insidious and it's there in a in connect with Duda. Unfortunately you know and I think that it's a These spaces that were just being able to talk about it right now. Being able to hold our families accountable being able to make our allies aware of this I think is important and it takes. It's a process you know but I don't want to negate the fact that there may be some sort of an undertone of that trans generational trauma in it as well L.. So I I. I tried to understand that when I think of my father even though I no longer speak with him but because he was just a violent man overall and and they're saying you could just see the pain he he experiences himself look can imagine that. Maybe there's something more there as well. In addition to dad I would say that I think one thing another thing here. That rooker alludes to is that this has to be pointed out this has to be he said on the open. Because there's no rule that says that you can't you can't support immigrant rights and point out some of the flaws like homophobia homophobia and transphobia that exist within our society. You know those things are not or should not be exclusive to one another and they should be you know you so you can be both pro immigrant and point out these sort of flaws in an deficiencies because there's no perfect Monolithic Society -ociety here when it comes to to migrants especially when it comes to transfer of you and homophobia as well with that said though it's not all doom and gloom and I just want WanNa point out here I think in my opinion is very important side note here and this is something you touched on earlier. This year is the curious case of ood. SELENA's they'll salvador. So can you about this particular cases. Yes we'll selling us is definitely incredible. Person that I've had the honor to interview and speak to end. Actually Cindy made the introductions on Cindy yes my friends in the also her stage name set of other Raina who does school meals and his and her family who's well connected out here in DC. So he grew up in the two he came here maybe when he was like in in his twenties after graduating from them you know go you went to school out. There came out here connected with her father who was like his best friend and just kind of like did did a Lotta great work in. DC in the article he you know he shares how he did a lot of lake HIV workout here. He always passed out condoms and I and other resources to youth out here just Kinda like giving them resources and having that awareness there so when he went back to her to set of other to be America's America's town like it really was just Something at an next another chapter in his life you know but he also recognizes that his activism started in DC which is really cool. Wow this is just a salvadorian shoutout show. You're on today's show. You know what I'm saying. So what is love and it all stems from remembering rocket administration rocket amid is so like I said before a few weeks ago. We had Kenyon Farrow the Senior editor for the BUY DOT COM. Talk about how. HIV and AIDS was now being used in this day and age as a means to prevent immigrants from from entering the country based on what we discussed with regards to the work of Horny show record Amigas and seeing what we know now about the plight of Central American migrants Agri- particularly LGBTQ migrants from central. America I WANNA get your take on this because we got Kenyans few weeks ago we want to get your take on this aspect. Well Oh because you were to call writer to this particular article. Yes totally so When I wrote this piece I I was moved by. Act Up some one of act up's demonstrations talking about how many people have died of complications of AIDS in these detention centers. Shortly shortly after the the creation of of this of this entity right through the Bush administration after nine eleven. Right we've seen how how This affect of fear has been used as a as a hegemonic tool to attack communities communities. He's who actually need our help because you know it's it's tragic to know that these refugees living with HIV were escaping their countries who are maybe persecuting them only to die inside a cell to die at the hands of the of of the US who frightens itself unlike taking in migrants and protecting refugees you know tampering with other countries politics because they feel they have to go in and say especially you know so. It's like it's such a conundrum. It's conflicting conversation to have because who these people need needed assistance. They needed some sort of medical assistance. That's why they they came to us and they died here because of that. And I think that. That's what's pretty heartbreaking about it. I really after have because you know ah Kenyon and I wrote the piece but having read also canyons. Part on it like He he really. He made a great point that the Haitian community at this this time was also being policed. You know especially because there are a lot of HIV folks coming from hey who were Haitian and so. I thought that that was very very Interesting to an insightful. You know he's he's always been such a great mentor that I learned so much from him and so this is one of those times where we got to write a piece together and and and I got to learn more you know and honestly like a lot of the organizations that I've collaborated with in the past to have honored Roxon for example. Simple can speak on the fact that this is a this is a narrative that many trans women and Trans men face as they come through you know across the border for example Victoria Castro is is she's an organizer She's an educator in In something on Cisco's Look Sean for this organization called Ella but advanced Latina's which is an incredible organization on sixteenth and mission. And they're they're doing their own thing and so She she's also from she's actually from the same town they families from attack. What's up and so when I met her? I met her when we were doing a vigil for Sauna and I got to learn about her a little bit more. I was living in the bay. Still we got were still really close and all I got to understand that she kind of went through something similar. You know as migrants a trans woman. And now she but she's she's very fortunate she says to be an decide and alive and so it's really like her calling to also continue this work. You know so we got people like you know like Ruby. WHO also you know? Mentors US regatta though and And then he said Oh in Los Angeles right or a dnr lint out in Florida. These are all trans women who really have taken it upon themselves to address issues of immigration. HIV and other the things that trans people face like violence the murders that are happening in even now open till nine hundred nineteen when we've had over like eighteen deaths already a of trans women being murdered you know yeah. We haven't mentioned that as often as we should hear that murder capital M. murder happens quite frequently conly not just know Salvador but in various parts of Central America not just in Central America but in very personal in America where you know homophobia and Transphobia S. will be a are again open accepted and to a certain extent normalize in a very. I would dare say in a much more disturbing fashion than than here in the US. And even that's bad enough in and of itself so you know what to all the journalists students out there in anyone in academia we mentioned in the concept of Queer Central American studies this is unclaimed real estate. This is a an a field that as Giuliani as mentioned only a handful of people have really touched on and so anyone who wants to get into academia and to document eligible hugh rights for for Latinos. This this is a field that N- desperately needs to be covered and it shouldn't be. There's just one person hornish on record Amir's but they should be like a one hundred rugged amid is in this field correct almost definitely I feel that his work definitely is is a milestone for many other people in for the next generation in. Who wants to do this work and also understand that doing this work? involves so many arms and so we can come from different angles. So you know I I I wanted to do this with an illegal lands you know and so being WanNa and doing immigration work you know the immigration work that I've been doing these past few years with asylum. Work back and working with goddess in La and these other firms that that I've done pro bono work for unaccompanied children in coming from Central America. That I just WanNa share that that what I studied and what I learned you know and what what else you also Inspired me to do also comes from And so we we all can do things in different ways. It doesn't have to be academic in academia research wise but we can be like activists artists. Attorneys policymakers let's see makers we work from different lenses recognized that essential Americans. We have some sort of like I want. I don't WANNA say obligation but I've I statement. I do feel it's my obligation. I just WANNA impose it upon other people but that's my obligation you know that's something that how am I going to continue to contribute to my Central American communities ladies that's my obligation and whatever it is that I do and so and and I'm not trying to impose it upon other people because they recognize that traumas and PTSD ISRAEL OLYMP- people are in different places in their lives. But that's where I come from like every time I wanNA do something. I need to find a way to honor my Central American community and and I'm so thankful that the body allowed me to do this work regard store for me personally. I think it is our obligation and I do impose an appeal. Sir Sir my motto has been. Is that the people in the global south cannot afford to have dissidents in a privileged society such as you and I to become cynical. It's not our lives lose. And it's not our future to mortgage but that's just my opinion and I'll share more though I totally agree with you because sometimes RC. I'll I'll see people posting things on social media and talking about triggers and this and that but then I'm just like okay. You're doing your social media activism but are you GonNa go to the border because they need your help your bilingual. You'll have citizenship. You can cross the border. They need your help. We need your help because let me tell you the little like I. I and I say specifically to my Central American generation. I really would love to see more people going out there and doing the work Rather than just reposting things on instagram or twitter. And so that's just me so I kinda Wanna add that in. Throw that out there. Because it's very important for us to really just take on the work and however little or what capacity people can but to just maybe reflect upon what can they do. You know that's at the very least you pretty much read my mind right there towards the end we have about one minute left so before we let you go I think we shouted out. Everyone every Salvadorian here in the the US in every Salvatore Organization here but with that said you know do everything up here. There's one more shout out Roberto Lovato. He's great as well. He's finishing up here. We have one minute left. What do you hope people learn towards the end about the teachings of Horatio Rookie Ramirez because it seems like again? I've said this already. I'll say it again. People are expanding upon this. And it's good to have you and other people like the body dot com for example fighting the good fine to expand on this. But what do you hope people learn in the end about his life and his legacy. I hope that people understand that despite the fact that you know I. It's the way that he his life ended was a tragedy that we can also pull from his research and recognized him as the academic who worked to be where he was in that time in his life that it wasn't easy especially someone who was Central American at the time. I can only imagine how how people would look at him right because he didn't really stand out and he was different within that she'd gotten all kind of movement he wasn't he was a different movement and so understanding that respecting. That is what I really hope. People come to appreciate. What about his work that it definitely stemmed from a different understanding of Queer Latini that? We've been speaking Giuliani Alvarenga. He's a freelance writer for the body. INDEED DOT COM. His two thousand. Eighteen article is entitled Remembering Ratio Roca Ramirez and will create a link to this article on twitter account As well Giuliani elving. Think very much once again for being on the show with US thank you and with that said that is it for today's show. We WanNA remind everyone. Did you could check us out on on Westside. which is Latino collective DOT COM? You can follow us on twitter under the name at L.. AMC underscore show and of course live on WPF w view FM DOT ORG some of my co producer. Abby Robert This is Oscar Fernandez. Saying thank you very much. Everyone for listening to his show this for today's show so you're Muslim US Chow the uh-huh And uh-huh I and

US Horatio Roquette Roquette Rami HIV writer Giuliani Alvarenga AIDS America Los Angeles twitter US professor San Francisco WanNa Oscar Fernandez reporter Berkeley Queer Central American Literat Telemundo
Black Lives Matter In Belize

Latino Rebels Radio

56:07 min | 7 months ago

Black Lives Matter In Belize

"Hey guys. Latino rebels radio. So our friends at the Latino media collective who have done guests shows in the past gave as one of their shows and here it is. took. took. took. Greetings greetings, greetings, meals. Told me had this channel in. Washington. All points beyond this is Oscar Fernandez and you're listening to Latino media collective recorded at the studios of WPF w eighty nine point three FM Washington a distinct Columbia here on this Friday September eleven two, thousand twenty. Also check us out on website, which is Latino media collective DOT COM. That's Latino media collective DOT COM call find us on twitter under the name at LLC. Underscores show that is at LLC underscores show, and of course, live on WPF FM DOT, ORG WPF W FM DOT ORG. Once again, this is Oscar Fernandez today on the show we put the spotlight on Belize and how the black lives matter movement shines a light on how believes is history has been excluded from Central American history, and so we're joined today by Nicole Ramsey who's a Candidate in a Department of African. American and African Diaspora studies at UC Berkeley she has an article that came out last month in medium entitled as Remind Central America to think outside the box she joins us today over the phone. Welcome to show Nicole Ramsey. Thank you for having me. Excited to be here is good to have you with us. I couldn't my introduction brief because actually pulled it from your article regards to Belize Central America. Once again, the Arctic was entitled Belise Remind Central America to think outside the box and when the central arguments you make in your article is that the black lives matter movement and I took this directly from your article shines a light on how belise history has been excluded from Central America. So, with that in mind, let me just go right there to the beginning and ask if you could elaborate and state your argument by what you mean by the black lives matter as pertains to beliefs which in turn pertains to Central America. Yeah for sure. So what envisioning what I was in? When I came up with the article title you know those with everything that's going on. There's been a lot of discussion and in terms of black lives matter and what that means for black population living outside the US I find a lot of conversations especially. I'm really interested in like conversations that happen online. I was really I guess interested in how people were conceptualizing black lives matter as mostly an African American movement which you know there's a particular history and reasoning of why how black lives matter came in to being. particularly in the US. but it was it was just very interesting to see how mostly folks from Latin America. Caribbean. Europe other places. Outside saw that as distance from what was going on in their particular countries. So. In the case, of Central, America you know black lives have always mattered. There's always been struggles of On, the ground with black people fighting again, know the colonial administration and anti-black midst especially what's going on with Garifuna communities across central? America. So that's what I was thinking about. That's what I had in mind when I, came up with this article and it was just kind of talk about it later too because it's kind of like this long history of exclusion in the region and the region and how people conceptualize Central America so I thought in order for us to. Even. Delve into what You, know black lives. Matter Movement Looks Central America certainly have to acknowledge. Black Communities and black histories in the region I. so that's kind of where I was getting at and I'm a fan of history off it's kind of like a title things together. Absolutely we just had a show last week on the Gutty Funez on Duras and in a large way they play a central role. Belize as well. So we'll get to them once again during the course of the conversation. But with that said, there are other groups that make Belize very complex as far as this community is concerned, there's some other groups that need to be recognized. So I wonder if you could also explain the complexity of the Afro Belizian community in believes because not every black person in Belize is necessarily a Gutty Fuda, their other complexities and needs to be addressed here. Correct. Yes for sure. And that's even including myself I'm not guarantee now I'm what you would consider creole. So depending on. The vantage point, but you look at central. America play believes etc. Gua. Even think accent complaints with endurance creole just like black. Identity of black population mixture of blackness feeding back to the enslavement of large populations in the business. So thinking about that identity in believes to historic. Black Group are black creoles. And the Afrin Vision is getting food and I say black correal's because it's. It's common to meet somebody blond-haired blue-eyed of like, who visually looks why to also call themselves. And it's also the language that they also speak in believe. So there's a lot of complexity there and fusion So I really like to say black creoles because also like the history of creoles and believe ties back to kind of that enslavement period. And of course. When I was there last full for feel work you have legal whole bunch of other. black groups that are that have been in believe for quite some time you have like a very Pan Caribbean. migration and group within believe. So you can meet somebody from Jamaica. You can meet somebody from Barbados Trinidad. So that's also present there. and then recently you have a lot of immigrants from. The continent diamond a few people from Nigeria I. Think someone someone from Ghana, and then of course, from Haiti as well. considering migration Haitians to central. So there's like different levels of that. But in terms of like historic, it's black KRILL and offering digits Garifuna and I do like to. Talk about them within the compass of affable believers because there has been like a mixture between two. It's not unusual to meet somebody with a creole mother and A. Father vice versa So it kind of intertwined throughout but the cultures are very distinct and that's important to note they have a different history different time line of you know. Experience within the country which kind of work to conceptualize how they're viewed within beliefs but I think that's very important to also considering language racial formations. So yeah. And to add further complexity to the community in Belize we did a show earlier this year on Latinos identity as it pertains to Belize and guess at the time we. Have a belief in of Chinese descent. So there is an Asian. Community on top of all the other communities that you just mentioned as well. So. Will among other things that you mentioned is that? According you here is that erasure is a violent process of exclusion, and this is something that you mentioned as it pertains to to blackness and central Americanism one if you elaborate on this a little bit further. So. Nick Harnessing Rasiah like violent process of exclusion. Just kinda speaking to like every day. kind of Muendane ways, but the eraser takes place especially in the daily lived experience. I. Think you can eat find. Anybody within the Belizean Diaspora who can always speak to this and always have stories about being excluded both in like. In a rare case like Caribbean circles and then also heavily in central Americans their full. Some. Also thinking about this in terms of like at a national level speaking about Central America as a whole right there the call constituting central Americans by Maritza Kardinia. And she kind of explained what I've always felt for whatever always thought in terms of like questions about you know why is believed always excluded from you know histories and literature about Central America and just speaking about. You know Central America as an identity that's kind of already borne out of as you're. Thinking about like the lack of indigenous representation, the lack of blackness representation kind of like some of the things. That, you have to sacrifice in order to create this kind of homogenous identity. So thinking about that in terms of like the you know the macro level, but also thinking about it in terms of absence in literature for me as a first generation. Who always wanted to see myself represented in? Central. American texts. Growing up I tell the story all the time. But like growing up I was always aware of other Central American countries because. growing up in Los Angeles. There's actually substantial population of blacks and show Americans like my mom. had. Friends that were from Costa Rica from Nicaragua and Guatemala Honduras. Who are black so I never kind of thought about. That particular type of a razor before 'cause I'm just like, Oh, I have this experience. And it wasn't until like. going. Around. Non Black Central Americans sometimes it's just like you of find yourself shock where it's just like well, you know you're Guatemala you don't believe exists but then that also goes for like you know understandings and you know where people are and like understanding of the region and you know as a student and that seeing myself represented in the literature I'll be so happy when I come across books that are like you know books about Fish America And then? Like in the introduction is just like we're only going to focus on the. Right, so excluding believes because of it English speaking background or British colonial background. So it's like little things of a ranger that kind of like repeat itself. And also thinking about the ways that it's also violent. In terms of like these little erasers that happen. Whether. The lived experience in literature. How that's also violent because it's also. In a way kind of creating or speaking to like colonial ways of definition for thinking about okay. What language is comprised and Central American Or Central American identity what music? What food? It really like. Kind of. Peters the line of. kind of like exclusion. But then also. Designating. What is Central American on the I find a lot of times in Central America current like especially blacks who Americans dynamic place. With. So many different overlapping histories with you know the US, the Caribbean South America different places in the region. So I feel like it kind of feeds off in each other like that kind of manifest in the everyday lived experience where Blackston show Americans. Kind of have their. In a way like. Central American stripped from them. You know in the lived experience to the point where people question are you really from here where your folks from things like that? So it kind of leases to like these other ways that we navigate. Society whether in Central America or in the US or wherever the populations migrate twos. So that's kind of what I was thinking about. kind of like the violent process. Of a razor through exclusion because in a way kind of. Allowing. Folks get comfortable with this particular type of exclusion The fact that we can't speak about certain populations or certain countries because they're not really Central American or they speak a particular different language that doesn't adhere to how we think of national identity in this particular country region. So thinking about all the ways that it kind of believe in to the lived experience second. Coach will speaking of lived experience that sort of segues into my next question is it? How have you yourself? If you could give us an example of how your central Americanise has been denied by other central Americans because I can't help I can't help but think of Of, racism being in a backbone of of Disk Losin of believes when it comes to Central American history. So again you know, can you give us a few examples how your Central American necess- been denied has been I dunno passive aggressive or flipping examples were kind of examples. Could you give us? I'm thinking. Right, now about like what particular? So I think. One of the popular ways that I experienced this is through kind of like I. Think I mentioned in article like Oh, you know I didn't know that you thought you were just black I didn't know that you had roots in Central America or something like that. So kind of like this kind way of knowing. That people are falsely of knowing that people kinda predict onto like my body I see that a lot. Mostly a literature, one and a lot of central Americans spaces I think kind of partake in too. These you know the way that I see that. Every happening. So thinking about like in college when there would be you know. Like celebrations of Central American identity, right? Because there's also kind of like the need for Central American students to kind of. Distance themselves from particular ways that people have identified them in the past. to like a very Mexican Chicano. Len's. So me being excited that there's kind of finally the space for Central American identity and then going there, and there is no not just believes but also like representations, Garifuna folks who are very national or Panama. Go definitely I saw the ways that race kind of operated throughout all the time growing up in Los Angeles I never really had my pinch for American or am I believe in my central Americanise or believe in this questioned? within my communities in community I'm thinking about the black community to. because tend to live in only black and brown community. So there was always Kinda like that knowledge whether you learned it at school or not. You had a neighbor that's easy in and they cook you know tamales and rice and beans on Sundays. So it's kind of like. Kind of cultural way of knowing. I. Think it's when you get into spaces where there's not a lot of believe or there's not a lot of black Central America Caribbean folks. That it's kind of like this shock or disbelief of like, Oh, I didn't know that you were from there. You had roots in there. 'cause I also think there's a particular way that if you're from black central. America, how people expect. You to talk or you know to identify or to relate to them on some level. And then being the position that. Belief has in Central America that is very Caribbean country as well. I just kind of thought refuge in my Caribbean nece more so. Areas where I didn't necessarily feel like my Central American background was valued I always had the Caribbean background as well. So it was kind of like operating within those two lynn go to kind of like ways of being in the world. So my Americanised, and then my Caribbean, which for me is like one in the same in a way. But definitely like Central Americans, spaces where it became more prevalent where I thought the most. I think especially online it wasn't until like I was on twitter one day and I came across the fence and Central American beauty page on A. Bio the I begin to see people kind of embracing seven. Countries in Central America. So I thought that was like. Pretty unique or cool way of looking at kind of Of Inclusion of believes in and I think that when you know. I guess feel more comfortable and Central American spaces. For I guess being visible So that's kind of like a time line and then also Los Angeles it's kind of like a very. I know there's a lot of. Critiques about La of being one particular type of lengthy that here But I also feel like it. There are spaces in Los Angeles that are very. Very Black Central American Central American and. Going outside of those spaces where I saw. or where experience the most kind of central. American denial of me though that kind of like where other kind of the moment where I see it. You sort of answered my next question, which is. Fair to argue that believes lives between two Communities Central American And Caribbean it may sound in May sound like a like a very easy question for a believed to answer. But I, only ask you I only ask it for the simple reason. Is that since I myself I am not. I don't think it's fair for me to to make that assumption let alone that conclusion. So. Is, that a fair argument to say? Like this I would say, yes and no. Yes, because I think they are both. Leaders both I think Central American and Caribbean and there's I feel like there's no. From what I've experienced in the people are talked to. There's no kind of inbetween, Kinda like your both you don't really have to choose within the beliefs context, but then I also think. That belise as well as other place other sides. Awesome. Acre is Kinda like redefining geography. Of, what is a Central America and what is Caribbean? So I think? There's like There's like a line, but then it's also very mean to a muted line, right like being about belonging in the region as well like how do people most belong? Central America or the Caribbean. Also thinking about the similarities between believing creoles and folks on the the Caribbean coast and got our bluff the similarities between how they both see themselves as part and as part of other as part of Central America and as a part of other places. beginning like places like China and Providencia that are very Caribbean consisting of like islands, and then also very tied to South America Colombia Nicaragua Panama. I think there's like. believes lies between communities, but then it's also. Kind of. A part of that redefinition of what is Central American, what Caribbean and I think a lot of the time and I kind of. think believe is very important. Geography and the region as well. Because it kind of allows us to be. kind of like these lines. Or to like really. You know taking the consideration, these lines I have kind of been drawn out I, thinking of the Caribbean. Beyond island miss the Orange Island thinking maybe sometimes a Central America as extending beyond its most. In its dealings with other Caribbean, nations, other South American, nation's the US thinking about migration as well. About how? To migrate maybe places like New York or Miami. Tapping, more to the Caribbean news of their environment whereas maybe a believer in going to Texas or maybe Louisiana. Some parts of California may tap into a particularly Central American identity depending on who's around I. Think it Kinda works both ways. So yes, being part of the communities were also. Like reshaping the the boundaries of. Curbing interprovincial American. We're speaking with Nicole Ramsey. She's a PhD candidate in the Department of African American and African diaspora studies at UC Berkeley. Her medium article is entitled Believes Remind Central America to think outside the box. This is Oscar Fernandes and you're listening to Latino media collective. W Eighty nine point three FM we're GONNA take a short break right here back with more than a minute stay tune. and. mind. Your. Bond. Much. Abroad. Under. The Land On Bond. On An. Outdoor. Do. Not. Help. mind. Bars. Money. Bomb. And and. and. He's That was Lard Ruben and you're listening to Latino media collective young WPF, W eighty nine point three FM Washington reminding everyone check us out on all website, which is Latino media collective dot com. You also follow us on twitter under the name at Elm C. Underscores show, and of course, live under ups. wfan DOT ORG OF UPS WWL FM DOT ORG. Once. Again, this is Oscar Fernandes and we're talking about black lives matter in. Belize with Nicole Ramsey who's a? Candidate in a Department of African, American and African Diaspora studies at UC Berkeley, her medium article is entitled Believes Remind Central America to think outside the box. So Nicole, you know most of the time we discuss Central America here on this program a lot of it stems regarding the dark legacy of various right wing dictatorships for all of Central America in one form or another, and it makes me wonder you know the more I learn about believes is history itself which you know obviously, it doesn't have the same violent bloody history as its neighbors in Central America. But it doesn't make me wonder if you believe the region's bloody history of right wing dictatorships play a role in Central America's distant relationship with believe because the reason I ask you that is because. The. Last time we discuss believes here on this program. Our guests noted that you know sometimes unconsciously the whenever we say the word care being would we're thinking in the back of our minds may actually be black culture. Now, that's not to say, that's not to say that Central Americans are all inherently racist. But when you think about you know the history of right wing dictatorships history has proven that they been especially races in one form or another we have the indigenous populations in their own in their own respective countries. But with that said, you know disease dark history sort of play a role in Central America's distant relationship with beliefs. Yeah. That's A. Great question because that's often something that I thought about. For a long time especially thinking about. Legions in Los Angeles Central American identity in Los Angeles I think. American identity in Los Angeles has always within the context of central Americans who fled violent repression back. In their countries but thinking about Guatemala I think like in Los Angeles. El. Salvador definitely hunters Nicaragua So definitely I do think it definitely plays a role in Central American relationships to believe especially abroad because then I think you're also thinking about the different reasons why People Migrate Believe in. Reasons or you know long history of migration to the US is very different than other countries in central. America. And so I think that that plays out in that history of migration and. You could definitely see it and within that framework I think in terms of like the role that it plays in the region. I think you're definitely right because I think this particular type of histories and I believe Costa Rica maybe a up there too that doesn't have that particular history as well. So it'll be interesting to kind of see how that also work within that Lens also. Costa Rica having different ethnic compositions and believes we'll be very interesting. but I think they're also both unique in that sense. And it kind of. So. I think it Kinda plays out in terms of like goes back to the relationship of how each country season. So. In relationship to each other. So thinking about like. Modalities of power. Relationship to other Central American countries the US, their relationship to the nation plays out in that way. I'm thinking about beliefs too in the sense of. where it is today believes is becoming very when if you think about the Central American diaspora. Believe has a large population of folks from El Salvador. Who? Pain in the eighties and who have been living there generations right creating this kind of. Double Diaspora call it within instant within believed. So the relationship connection of Belise to. these other. Countries and dictatorships have been Central America. Is, through that Lens of Migrations whether they're migrating to believe or when they migrate to places Third Base, California or the US these kinds of relationships. Become more. Visible I think that in terms of literature as well. So. A. Lot going on between the sixties and the eighties and even before of places in Central America. So that kind of takes up a lot of literature because there's so much history there and so many things happening. So I've definitely seen it within that framework and I. Think. Believes not having that particular 'cause three does kind of play into how people see believe within the region maybe of I dunno maybe like a, you know country that doesn't have as many political instability. You know things like that. I'm not sure. It does to an extent, play a relationship like play a role in that relationship to believe how people. kind of relate to believe in identity or the country itself. I. Do think there is. In terms of believes there is more. Social Cultural Political alliance with the larger Caribbean in itself. believes some dependence and nineteen eighty-one which is the last country in Central America to do so I think. maybe the second to last within the larger Caribbean. So I think there's also like a lot of things going on itself. You know being a crown colony of the British. Calling system. kind of put it within a within a different historical round as well and how it relates to other countries So things you know. And I think we could talk about this. Later we talk about different historical events that I think are important to the believe the nation. So thinking about. You know black uprising throughout the larger English and Spanish speaking Caribbean and how believe was also part of that but I think there's like I guess like it depends on the way that you look at it too. In terms of like. Uprising than rebellions believe there's a part of that larger Caribbean history but in terms of speaking of the isthmus and Central America, there's definitely. A. Difference in how. in what they've experienced in their respective nation will let's go to that issue right now because it's not that often that we get to. GO IN DEAF ON, beliefs. Now under the Lens of the black, lives matter movement you know this gives us the opportunities because obviously the central focus of black lives matter is police violence and erasure of history, but also brings to light moments in history that deserve greater attention. So for in the US alone I think more people this year are aware of June eighteenth and. The massacre at a race riots that took place in Tulsa. Oklahoma I think a lot more people are aware that now than they've ever been before. In this country history so Under the context of Belize now did you brought it up? Could you give us examples of moments in Belizean history that perhaps deserves far more attention? You know not just in Central America but far more attention than than it's ever gone before. Yeah, definitely, I feel like there are definitely moments. In Belize history that I feel. Speaks to kind of like a greater blacks I asked for us history of the black guy aspects especially within the Caribbean. when I was an anti heated at Ucla I. Knew I wanted to write something about. believe in identity or something about believes that are wasn't particularly shore. What to do with that? This is just kind of like. A little story that I have. And Going back to like. You know believe in representations and literature there wasn't much for me to work with. You know if if Lou mentioned believes, it's kind of like the same kind of facts like you know English. Speaking we have these you know seven ethnic groups here. It was just kind of very quick facts about believes and I never got. into it. it wasn't until I took an independent study with Professor Robert Hill who published the Marcus Garvey papers. Tragedy. The markets Gary papers that I saw representation of believes within the histories. So I just remember being kind of blown away because I was like I never knew anything about Garcia's them pan-africanism in believes. my parents didn't know anything about it. You know they kind of like had you know like very slight histories of you know Other forms of black politics there. But nothing like that I remember delving into it and it wasn't a tie read this book about Caribbean radicalism. In the region I think it's called like holding aloft the banner of Ethiopia. Genes that I saw well believes as part of this. Rebellion you know black uprising that was happening. In World War One that hits the talk about the nineteen nineteen right. And I think they just celebrated their one hundred and one anniversary. On in Belize at the Nineteen nineteen riots that kind of focused on. The Trans National and domestic. Politicisation. Of Black men, and women, believe. So you know black servicemen we see this in American history to black servicemen returning for more one come back to a country facing still kind of discrimination poverty, all of these things that kind. Fought for broad. So they kinda rebelled against the colonial administration and black women were also involved in this too because while the men were way of black women were also politicized in that. It just kind of rebelling as lack subjects under British rule. So I thought that was something that was really cool. And really important. One of the things that I thought was really cool about it was that one of the main servicemen who fought. Samuel Haynes wrote a poem called land of the Gods that kind of that later turned into land of the free, which is the national anthem of believes and I had no kind of. History about the connections between the national anthem and the nineteen nineteen uprising. So it was just kind of like a really cool moment and. Just kind of thing. We think also like how come I don't read about this in Central American texts, but it's like a Caribbean. So it was just kind of one of those things that I begin to question as well. And, the nineteen nineteen riots also coincides like the rise of Barbie. And like a shift in black consciousness. Among ACURA believes and believes. But about markets Karzi in the nineteen twenties. Back to Africa Movement pan-africanism Black. PEOPLE'S RIGHT TO SELF-DETERMINATION I think we often like to think of lease as kind of like this multicultural. Especially, like in tourist attractions is multicultural. Kind Kinda space where the Muyin Garrison A. Mini nine. He's been nearly stationed all get along together and coincide you know in harmony in a way. But I think you know looking at these particular moments in black history kind of really. Is the way that blackness fifteen not just in Central America cell phone in the country as a whole and like what particular point of history get taken as important to the nation's. and then the last one is you bad so the United Black. Association. For Development which came, which was a cultural political party that team. about in the late sixties. That was part of kind of like the black power movement in the US the black power radical tradition. And also thinking about that politicisation at that time so. Believe in politics believes in culture believes in political history. Kind of speaks to what's going on in different parts of the Caribbean and parts in the US Latin America. Those those particular moment are very important to how I envisioned history and believe in history in the region. Right speaking about Garvey ISM to. Across Central America being about it costs Black Central America I like the the USDA Garvey, branching Costa Rica still there, and they're still people that are heavily a part of it So just speaking about the importance of a belise. and. Black Central America to understandings of pan-africanism and they after history. In. General History of Latin America and you know in the Caribbean. So those are the things that I think are great examples of hot speaks to what's going on in the world right and seeking to kind of global anti blackness. Because I. Think There's always a tendency from what I've seen to like. Well, especially believes where some people pride believe on not having plantation slavery which. Leads to. How people conceptualize beliefs as racial place of racial harmony because of. Their dealings with slavery I think there is a way of you know kind of like his game that people play. Well, you know unders black people live this particular way. So El Salvador, we're not like this or we don't treat our black people like this. So there's kind of like this weird game that gets play. So I think like paying more attention to like these histories and what they mean and propping them up. Until like the way that we talk about our national. These national historical moments is important. I know that I've been doing excellent work lately. and kind of making emancipation Public Holiday Inn believe domestication of plays across the Caribbean Public Holiday and believes really holding the air the events of nineteen nineteen uprising a black T. fall within the colony. Just kind of cool to see those things happening now. We'll you certainly hit the nail on the head that you know this is something that should be taught in Central American Studies and I'm not just on about. Latin American academia here in the US. But in Central America. People in what the mullahs in Salvador just name a few examples should learn more about Marcus Garvey under the context you mentioned because it is Central American, history and it should be recognized a lot more often than it should. So you know what we have about four minutes left. So I want to ask you two things before we wrap up here. One one we mentioned the Funez and their story has a lot of urgency considering the challenges they face in neighboring on us. So one, I want to ask you if you could explain how a gut no community developed in Belize because it's not necessarily seem as how developed in Honduras what the mullahs. And also finally to in the show, you know under the Lens of black lives matter you may have answered this already but what do you hope people learn from your article in medium as well? The gardeners cloture history and believes Berry. Dot Com but also beautiful. but very different like you said from neighboring countries. So, when I think of the Gershman. Getting goofy museum believes I think of person exile right from Saint Vincent to Belize and then they're all you know ultimately settling across, you know throughout the coast of Central America. I feel like. The history and the development of Garner comedian believes has not always been very welcoming like you know history shows us that belief in Garifuna were designated to certain districts in believe in couldn't even go into belief city right because of anti blackness and then also fears about you know what happened in Haiti with the revolution and now you have these black you know. Group speak their own language. So there's kind always like that anti-black missed and that fear of what could happen. so you know thinking about. As. They used to call them I think I believe. Forty hours right because they needed a permit, they had a permit for forty hours. They could've say longer than forty eight hours in Belize City. So they had to be out beginning about how like the? You know the discrimination against Garifuna has been there's a long history in Belize. And also like colonial establishment often pudding pitting. GARIFUNA and creoles against each other which you can see a lot of that today in terms of you know how they. You know interact with each other and then also like cultural kind of differences and things like that. And then in nineteen forty, one guaranteeing a settlement day on with fashion believes that kind of was well, it's a reenactment of when the Garifuna came on their boats and settled in the southern districts of believes in this huge celebration that takes place in believes and in the diaspora until like places like New York and La, they celebrate it. So there's kind of like Ben this. Then shifts of you know believe Garifuna is being discriminated against being included in the nation So thinking of a Garifuna Settlement Day, we can actually pay homage to The GARIFUNA community Also like UNESCO. Designated Garifuna language dance music. as something to be preserved and something to be celebrated for that also tells you like what Garifuna culture And Catherine of people have. Given to the nation right also, they're really celebrated in Belize to their culture, their ability to preserve their language And their rebellious Hippie But then also there's kind of like these remnants. Of Anti blackness and discrimination that's kind of over from like. Colonization. Colonial Administration So it's it's a very like complex. kind of history. And I think it's also different to from my understanding from when I was in Belize. You Know Garifuna, Settlement Day the music is very much celebrated in believing that they Astra even to the point where confess sometimes become synonymous with believe in music. But there's always that recognition that Garifuna culture which doesn't happen in a lot of different in a lot of countries that America's. Mainly Hindu. So. Yeah. That's a little bit more about like the development Garifuna Canadian believe. They also have like long histories of serving an education healthcare system. So there's like, yeah, there's like a history kind of. Like. A whole history of how Gary. Communities became kind of part of this this national identity as well. That's very fascinating. It looks like we're out of time. So we've been speaking with Nicole Ramsey. She's a PhD candidate in the Department of African American and African diaspora studies at UC Berkeley. Issue on learn more about her article, you could check it out on medium. It's entitled believes remind Central America to think outside the box we are going to create a link to article on our twitter account, but in the meantime Nicole Ramsey. Thank you very much for being on the show with us. Thank you. And with that said that as in for today's show, you could check out this episode in our previous episodes on Latino media collective dot com the goals of follow us on twitter and a name at L. MC underscores show, and of course, live on WPF W FM DOT ORG. So bad my co producer Abby Roberts. This is Oscar Fernandez saying, thank you very much everyone for listening to this show. That's it for today's show on. November Jau.

Central America Central America Caribbean America Belize US Belize Central America Los Angeles Nicole Ramsey twitter Central America UC Berkeley Costa Rica Communities Central American Latin America Central American Studies Caribbean South America Department of African American Department of African Oscar Fernandez
253: Privatizing Puerto Rico's Schools

Latino Rebels Radio

55:05 min | 1 year ago

253: Privatizing Puerto Rico's Schools

"Now is the chance to use reliable energy to grow your money with the dominion energy reliability investment. Our new investment product offers competitive competitive returns no maintenance fees and flexible online access to your money. You make the reliable investment in reliable energy the dominion energy reliability liability investment to find out more go online to reliability investment dot com. That's reliability investment dot com. Hey guys it's julia here latino rebels radio. It is sunday august eleven two thousand nineteen. We are coming off vacation. We actually took a couple of days off so much she's going on. We had to take a break so we don't have a new show but luckily our friends at the latino media collective gave us one of their shows that they ran earlier in july. It's about puerto rico and the privatization of the islands education system and it's pretty relevant given all that's gone on puerto rico the last couple of weeks so so here they are the latino media collective latino rebels radio <music> yeah yeah yeah interesting the doctor it took and the they did take take readings readings things this channel in washington and all points beyond this is oscar fernandez and you're listening to a latina collective recorded at the studios at w._p._f. P._f. w eighty nine point three f._m. Washington a district oh columbia here on this friday july nineteenth two thousand nineteen. We're also heard on the internet on own website which is latino media collective dot com. Go also find us on twitter under the name at l. m._c. Underscores show and of course live on the u._p. F._w. f._m. f._m. That orgy that's w._p._f. W f._m. Dot org once again. This is oscar fernandez today on the show we put the spotlight on puerto rico as has the government of governor ricardo ceo is rocked by scandalous leaked messages in multiple arrests in his administration but the rick was outraged by leak messages that included violent sexist and homophobic remarks against his political opponents this this is on top of multiple arrests and indictments of former and current government officials for money laundering and other charges one aspect aspect at the center of the scandal our efforts to privatize public education system in puerto rico however our guests today will point out that efforts to privatize the education system predates the current scandal and even the current administration of ricardo ceo so with us today on a show is fernando tornadoes. He's a post doctoral fellow at the scholars strategy network at the university of missouri in saint louis missouri. He joins us once again today via skype welcome back to the show fernando thomas. Thank you for having me back so this is quite quite an interesting situation that we have right now 'cause recording the show today on tuesday the sixteenth this show will air on friday friday same week and who knows what happened between now and friday regards to this administration so let's go right to the immediate and discuss if you can as best as possible to summarize the recent of series of events that have taken place in puerto rico this month as it relates to privatizing the education system because it's not just about ricardo sale the individual or the administration's current administration particular but a very large picture with regards to education -cation in puerto rico definitely and it's been quite a month and in fact many have said that they've never seen something like this and no one really expected the kind of uprising that we are witnessing this week in but the rico it is as you say important to see the issues that are under the surface which include fraud fraud within the department of education and within the health administration health insurance administration and in the i don't know puerto rico <hes> there are currently <hes> cases that are <hes> taking in place in the island and indictments against the secretary of education julia kelleher the former secretary of education julia julia kelleher <hes> was indicted for fraud during her tenure as secretary of department of education <hes> this is of course compounded by the public outcry after the leakage of a chat <hes> that was administered by the governor that got himself in which among many many other things this is eight hundred eighty nine page document the liberal schedule double down on his interest of privatizing advertising in fact in one at one point during this chat one of his main advisers that was leading about five different government units major your major operations five different hats. He wore <hes> said to everyone on the chad. Let's be honest people <hes> who take the ferries to the island municipalities of the anglada do it because they want they don't really need to <hes> and and and this is referring to the fact that it's very inexpensive in comparison to flying to vegas and coda to take the ferry and to to which the governor responded. This is why we're privatizing folks even said this in english in this chat that was mostly in spanish <hes> so the shot shows shows a disdain for working class and poor communities put both rico and it shows that they have an ideological commitment to privatizing faxing not necessarily an evidence based sort of impetus for this sort of policy change as you said before it's almost about seven seven to eight hundred pages of leak messages here and at one point i mean there's a lot of highlights or lowlights in this in this case of at one point in time threatening a c._b._s. News supportive by name of david begg noord for his reporting on corruption in the administration. I think at one point in time someone in the administration if not ceo himself referred to the teacher's union in puerto rico as a terrorist organization as well these leak messages came from a puerto rican organization called the center for investigative journalism just to be clear and again. It's quite shocking. I mean there's even one one politician by name of unable set tortoise who was referred to as la halsey. I don't know his sexual orientation or his political leanings as far as unable doris but under the context you know in these league messages. It was quite homophobic. You know in this context is referred for to this person as as la halsey so it really is quite shocking to say the least you know but like i said before at the center of this and you you said before that you know it's a lot to do with just see open <hes> efforts to privatize various sectors of puerto rico and chief among them his education so you just mentioned julia kelleher already. I wonder if you know if you go into a little bit further detail as to who she is so do look keller or has been a with was brought to puerto rico on rebel oversea your cited he she who was <hes> of global caliber she had already had a some stints in the department of education federal department of education education had stints in <hes> state level <hes> <hes> education departments and had in fact worked within department of education on matters relating to put the legal <hes> she eventually incorporated a firm that managed to land a major contract with the department of education. This was prior to her appointment. As secretary of the department of education <hes> she gets her appointment is is allocated one of the largest <hes> sums of money for her salary which already costs quite the outrage regardless of preparation or ideological leanings and takes actually a some time to <hes> to cancel some of the contracts that she had with the department of education even while being <hes> the department of education occasions secretary and carrying out some of the most far reaching reforms that this department has carried out in the recent past now even prior to her arrest earlier this month on charges of money laundering julia kelleher was not popular by are- puerto rican public regarding schools. What were the puerto rican people's main grievances against kelleher regards to privatizing education and you know prior to our downfall here because i've seen some of her interviews beforehand and i can tell you that somebody here in washington to d._c. She seems to be like the puerto rican equivalent to michelle rhee who was in d._c. Who made a lot of efforts to privatize the school system. Awesome here made a lawyer efforts to push for charter schools as well and i'm pretty sure that you know if if governor will sail was not a fan of the teacher's the union in puerto rico than the teacher's union would probably not fans of julia keller also i would assume yes the first grievance regardless of love her preparation for <hes> this task of leading the department of education and put creek or the first grievance was the salary <hes> two eight hundred fifty thousand in fact on this is far above what <hes> most public officials most elected officials and <hes> any <hes> working class puerto rican any average puerto rican ours in the island so of course folks were outraged that in the middle of this fiscal crisis in which the item is having to <hes> basically <hes> find <hes> everything that they can cut including social services to fund the debt that it is strangling the island they had to also fund a salary of two hundred and fifty thousand there was no other talent within the island or outside outside of it that could do this job <hes> without having to bringing so much <hes> so that was the first grievance but of course this was the only one <hes> the governor the governor of what typical had an agenda prior to getting elected he was very vocal about it and <hes> the agenda was <hes> straight and simple they wanted to downsize the department of education. They wanted to close schools and they want it to allow for the creation creation of charter schools. This was of course very controversial for various reasons. <hes> these schools are not just <hes> educational centers they are often at the center of social and economic activity in multiple communities like in the community of last carolina's got was for example which is in the valley of level. This is south of psalm one. <hes> sort of the central east of the i learned last catalina had a school that was closed and i got a chance to visit that school outta chance to interview folks in the aftermath of fatty yahoo decided to occupy this school. Because of course the school was an important place where folks exchange goods among other ethics and particularly in the aftermath of punic maria there was a mutual assistance center set up in this school where they were distributing goods that folks will bring dan and share with folks in the community. It didn't have any basic supplies for survival in the aftermath that this major disaster as i am interviewing doing one of the leaders there we see and he's telling me about the school closure and the impact that had on the community we see a school bus. Come by and drop off the kids hits that were that lived right in front of the school and he tells me you see this is what happens folks who used to live across from the street now have to take buses which which by the way they have to pay for their families can no longer <hes> just have their kids walk to school. They now have on top of all the burdens. I have to take their skill. The other kids too far away a school. This less catalina school example is is also another key example because with this charter school reform one of the things that they did the government did was that they began to a quote unquote fat l. d. schools but basically they were giving them to folks that were close to their administration like fedex plough for example who was a long long time <hes> pro <hes> ruling-party advocate and they they quote unquote sold these for about a dollar so it's more more of us embolic sort of handing over to folks that were close to the government administration and these schools were given the liberty of adopting acting any kind of curriculum that they want so they weren't <hes> if they didn't agree with teaching creation than soviet right and a revolution or revolution particularly or family planning among other things sexual health or separating church and state aren't aren't so they began to hand off the schools but when last gelinas which was led by the community was occupied by the community they were using it for the community they want honor to <hes> they they solicit the government to take over the school so that they continue to do the same kinds of mutual support mitchell assistance that they were <hes> developing in that community <hes> they were denied and they've continued to <hes> ask government. Why are we being denied the school year otherwise not using anything and this is what's happening in terms of the reform. Multiple schools are closed there being consolidated in another event. There were two schools that were relatively far away from each other. One was a specialized school for baseball players. Which of course is huge sport in the island. It was consolidated with another school that had no baseball program. Batman of course people were were upset and government did a whole media tour and they even went to the school that was going to absorb the baseball school and they manipulated students. They got to say on camera without their parents consent that they will be very welcome. At these new schools <hes> and of course these are just some of the logistical failures of this <hes> reform <hes> among other sorts of failures but of course this is <hes> uh including things with a pension reform <hes> where teachers were basically <hes> being forced to to accept <hes> i early retirement or reforms to their pensions and they were undoubtedly very upset as they express today today during the arrival of julia kelleher to face justice and what does go in and where they received her with <hes> very well attended protests not just at the airport also at the federal district court. You know this really hits close to home here in washington d._c. Because has it's almost the same scenario here in here. In washington dc as it is in puerto rico in regards to pushing charter schools privatizing these these public schools or even you know changing them to private private. Our resources or private areas like condominiums that sort of thing here in washington d._c. We could easily replace you know some of the neighborhoods that you mention with the neighborhoods and it'd be the same exact scenario as well. I don't have the exact quote with me but i remember i recall an interview by julia kelleher where she said something to the extent where eh i don't. I'm not trying to close the schools but somebody has to be the adult in the room so it certainly doesn't help the with the condescending attitude that she had towards teachers unions and local officials as well with regards to privatizing education correct yes and it wasn't just as paternalistic nick language that she came here from the states to save our system. It was also the fact that a multiple locations she was directly disrespectful respectful to teachers to school directors among other sectors of the population in fact <hes> due to the outcry that <hes> <hes> grew in the aftermath of some of these reforms <hes> a lot of folks began to use the words used to hashtag julia go home and julia media kelleher would give interviews which she would be cheering up and she would say i am so offended by this i in doing everything for of this country and this is a form of reverse racism <hes> and then she would go on on how <hes> not only was she working working long hours for <hes> the department of education and put the hickam for the people who put the rico but she somehow managed to teach her courses at g._w. <hes> <hes> somehow while she was on the way to work or she would get mentioned like i was on my way to work and that's how i taught my class on my way to work the report from work. Wow okay. That's that's certain magic right there. We're not familiar with you. Know regards to her appointment there. They're that sort of. I think indirectly hit something else here that i think we hit upon the last time we had you on the show. Last year was the fact that there is. It's not just her but unelected officials from the u._s. Going to put the rico namely here and unelected fiscal control board now. I want to know if if this at all fits into what we're discussing right now if if or how does the unelected fiscal control board by the way imposed on puerto rico by the obama administration play any role in either the recent scandal or the recent series of events trying to privatize ties the education system in puerto rico yes scott announced something about the role of junior kelleher before transitioning to the fiscal oversight board a in my opinion bringing in <hes> practitioners from the united states from continental united states to puerto areco serves a purpose and a political purpose for the new progressive party which is a prostate party and it's the following they get to play early on both sides of the aisle they get to bring someone from the united states white american and say that this is a person from that that is of the highest calibre terms of their preparation but when things go wrong they also get the play the nationalistic sort of discourse and say we were played and we puerto ricans have to pull ourselves herself up and we have to develop our own solutions from the ground up so they were using both discourses and this is the purpose that in many occasions bringing winging folks from the united states to lead the department of education but not just department of education the same thing happened with portugal electric power authority were they would bring of they would bring practitioners and they were able to say these are bringing them in with salaries walter hagan's was earning seven hundred fifty thousand thousand to direct the puerto rico electric power authority and they say this is a person of the highest calibre and when things went wrong they could play the nationalistic mystic discourse and say this this was someone coming into our island that did not serve the interests of the puerto rican people in their way they should and on the matter of the fiscal oversight board the fiscal oversight board has in fact been <hes> very much in favor of this sort of of with policies of privatizing different services such as healthcare education electricity among other sorts of basic and fundamental services. The people in the island archipelago more generally so important to remember that these services are also provided to the island politics <unk> and glitter the the fiscal oversight board in light of the scandal. It's surprising that there hasn't been much said on their behalf and the things that have been said are somewhat ironic <hes> one of the few and perhaps as to my knowledge the only person from the fiscal oversight board to respond onto the current scandal has been <hes> wholesale korean <hes> who's the president of the board and it it's ironic for him to respond a the of course admonished the content of the chat and called <hes> for reflection as many have said very timidly those that are somewhat what aligned with governor ceo but it's ironic that someone who has recently joined latinos for trump trump would be the person to lecture anyone in this world about ethics or about morality or or about leadership and it's also somewhat surprising the fiscal oversight board has been <hes> so silent about this because in the a chat one of the things that governor boom said on this can be found in the chat. I'm verified <hes> he actually he said fiscal oversight board you can go f yourself and signed off color rossio this in the chat <hes> not only that he referred to the executive director of the fiscal oversight board. Nobody desk will as a pussycat in when you got the data in spanish so it's quite surprising to see that <hes> there hasn't been much of a response from the fiscal oversight board <hes> but <hes> debt that is not to say that there won't be one coming soon. My impression is that a lot of folks are trying to buy time at strategize on what they're gonna say i. I also believe that there was somebody from the puerto rican statehood party those in-depth leaked chat or league message as well correct. Oh many many people from the state party were <hes> mentioned in that shot and <hes> criticized including the the president of the senate including the resident commissioner who ran in the same ticket as we gotta rosillo jennifer silas silas and who of course it has been <hes> very upset <hes> with with his performance in terms of the chat among others they were criticizing long time activists for the party including fat phobic comments about an activist that was on the ground rallies for support wore his party in the election of the procedure. It was totally hypocritical. They referred to a us a senator from the west coast of the island ebony buses as a prostitute and a may references to their own supporters <hes> which is of course astonishing and initially <hes> <hes> it led to a quite the outcry within the party but <hes> this week they've been rolling back the initial outcry and calls for him to resign from the leadership of the party calls for him to resign the governorship. They've been rolling all this back and they're now very timid in terms of what to do and <hes> the governor's currently on a media tour in the island completely blocking any sort of media <hes> for or two days in the aftermath of the leakage. We're gonna take a break right here but before we do. I wanna point out that as crazy as these leak messages are the center for investigative journalism which is iranian organization that brought these league messages out in the first place says that there are even more leak messages to come so we gotta take a break here. We're being phenomenal doors. He's a postdoctoral fellow at the scholars strategy network at the university of missouri in saint louis. I missouri. We're talking about privatizing education in puerto rico. This is latino medical <unk> beckwith morna minute stay tuned it only ended in though you know as luba thawing debbie aw aw seal in seattle the only the area uh-huh the kidding <music> <music> we discern <hes> east the number now i know <music> <music> and that was in. You're listening to latino media collective u._p._s. w f._m. Dot o._r._g. W._p._f. W eighty nine point three f._m. F._m. washington reminding everyone to listen to episode in our previous episodes on own website which is latino media collective dot com that is latino media collective dot com. You also follow us on twitter and under the name at l. m._c. Underscores show that is at l. m._c. Underscore show and of course live on w._p._r._o. W f._m. That audits w._p._f. W f._m. That org once again this is oscar fernandes and we're talking about privatizing puerto rico's education system. We're joined today by fernando tornadoes. Who's a post doctoral fellow at the scholars strategy network at the university of missouri in saint louis missouri now fernando. Let's get into the larger issue at hand which is privatizing but the regals education system. We've talked about it in great length already but this is part of the larger picture that goes beyond the scandal that we mentioned already goes beyond the individual recoverable ceo who may or not may not have resigned by the time. I'm just episode comes out but it's important to point out as a reminder if you could tell us about how far back efforts to privatize but eagles public education system goals so far beyond the people that we know now this even goals back the last time we spoke to the administration of luis fortuno so i wanna go back that far. If you can't certainly privatizing the social services <hes> education among them has been a longstanding interest amongst various sectors <hes> the population particularly <hes> <hes> financial center among others and in the aftermath of the election of lucile convened convened a commission he declared a fiscal crisis a fiscal emergency and commend <unk> combined commission that was made up of financiers ears and technocrats and they developed a series of recommendations among these was privatizing <hes> education of course alongside alongside other sorts of social services but they put a lot of effort into education and it's no surprise most of the critical sort of perspectives specter's that arise in the island the descent that arise in the island arises in the educational landscape and this is not a place that <hes> governors like dounia or ceo represent interests that are at odds with public public education sort of strong <hes> welfare system would want to see flourish and they developed a series of recommendations that were adopted by the <hes> <unk> goes the board of syndicates in the inertial puerto rico at almost quoted verbatim ada the recombination that this fiscal sort of recommendation board loose dune had made up on this set the stage each forum massive struggle in the university of puerto rico system in twenty ten and twenty eleven. It's important to remember that they're privatizing. Education has been in a long-standing inches. I'm not just the new progressive party but also the popular democratic party. They've been trying to raise tuition in higher education for decades gates now. There was a strike in two thousand five under the administration who was part of the popular democratic party. <hes> that was a <hes> quite momentous. It was unsuccessful at the time but <hes> it it set the stage and it provided some sort of learning for activists at the time who became veterans and who came back by twenty ten they hadn't learned some of the lessons from two thousand and five they have learned to build organizational relational power from the bottom up and they create committees these action committees in each college of the university of puerto gory obiorah's and this happened as well hello in my at west and they were really building power from the bottom up and creating cross sectoral support for a building a popular struggle struggle that would defend education in the island twenty twenty in two thousand ten somewhat successful it managed to avoid the imposition of tuition hike and the elimination of tuition fee waivers for students <hes> that were honor students and student <music> athletes among other sued if that were eligible for tuition fee waivers. I'm dave did however impose a fee of eight hundred dollars and move the bill power. <hes> had another major strike in twenty eleven until finally <hes> they managed to get the popular democratic party to adopt measures to reform the university and to democratize the governance of the university and they adopted these things in their platform and once they won and they managed to enact these reforms which included more representation from faculty staff and students in the governors of the the university however somewhat short lived <hes> when the rossio administration took power they went back to their <hes> back doc to politics as usual for the new progressive party and they began to develop a series of reforms with the consent support and the the push of the fiscal oversight board and they were completely align with respect to slashing the budget of higher education <unk>. Oh with school closures in k. Twelve education <hes> galileo ministration would would of course portray itself is trying to defend the interests of what the ricans but they still when they develop their budgets and took them to the fiscal oversight board for approval they still included massive budget cuts for education in the island and of course this led to struggle <hes> another strike in number rico this time the strike was the successful for various reasons government learned its lessons and it learned that they needed to basically destroy the gates of these universities because these gates students with us to close down university and occupy the entire campus. They also a stopped following the policy of not having police piece <hes> state police going into campus because there was a history of police violence on campus students had in fact been killed by police were fighting for for free and fair education and in an open education on campus so they violated that policy and began to populate campus with a police again and of course this there were skirmishes that would break out a lot of police abuse and repression goes hand in hand with these policies. They were even in the chat in the league chat. You could see how they undermined the department of justice the obama administration department of justice mandate at reforms forms of the puerto rico police department there was a monitor setup dat was trying to enact a series of reforms and they undermine this monitor later on tuesday they managed to get him to resign so of course with the repressive armed supported and fiscal oversight board this struggle in two thousand seventeen and did not manage to accomplish their goals which were far beyond just their own interests of avoiding tuition hikes and a budget legit cuts in the universe with rico they really began to enact a struggle that was more interested in the entire island and and in really stopping disorder form of neo colonial violence that was being enacted under the top the fiscal control board absolutely and i would also point out that even ricardo rosales father who's also the former governor puerto rico pero ceo also tried to privatize spur rico's school system as well so i you may events this already but looking back in hindsight. How does this recent scandal these. The recent series of events have taken place this month further validate the original motives of the student uprising against the government from almost ten fifteen years physical upon reflection in two thousand ten students really believed that the a set the stage was set for terms former to push in puerto rico the kind of support that they garnered was nasa ask when they called for support in any sort of circumstance they had radio stations that they created within these campuses that they would u._c.'s did say we need support. We need supplies on some game and people <unk> labor unions and other sectors civil society are getting spacious began two convenient. They began the say. We need to make a transformative push. We need to call for general strike. The problem was that there were some unions that by beat you of being the sole representatives of their workplaces they are unable to carry out a general strike or or the risk losing being the sole representatives of their workplaces and that created divisions because they did not want to go on a general strike although they were generally in agreement <hes> for for the struggle to push against the new liberal sort of austerity policies that the station was pushing so this these split split and there were many folks that were saying when the fiscal oversight board was implemented did that but and then working maria came through the island that this was put the lowest moment people had a lot of folks have to leave the island only only to find that they weren't wanted in the united states folks donald trump. Tell them that they should go back to the original countries of course <hes> negligent of the fact took. Rico is a story of the united states and and donald trump. Is it sovereign however this sort of moment. I don't really validates folks that were calling for reforms in puerto rico not just within the educational system but also against corruption against the influence of lobbyists and that were calling for the island to rise and in the aftermath the math the leakage of <hes> of the chat <hes> the president of the house joined this said oh these are the same for or cats that are always protesting. These are these what they call us dinesh. They lose the harry guys right the the the terrorist marxist. The socialists were always doing the same thing their career activists and that only sparked even more outcry to the point where we are seeing folks folks that we've never seen before coming to these protests coming to these marches in numbers that were unexpected because we've seen big numbers before such as for example when put managed to kick out the u._s. Military from the acres but that took months and years of preparation of organizational struggles of of of organizational infrastructure resources being invested in mobilizing people for massive demonstrations not any more people are outraged and we see people protesting testing new york city in my read in italy in the middle east amman. We see people in washington d._c. We we were seeing people coming from the state stupid ricco flying just a protest because their outrage orlando miami all over the island people are taking upon solves civil disobedience acts with no sort of prior training with no one trying to tell them to do that right now. Folks are posting online. They're calling it. The reiki challenge they're going to <hes> different sorts of government buildings and bringing down the picture of the official portrait a governor and these biz includes elderly women who were firmer this includes young people who are not affiliated to any sort of organization annexation just two days ago last night too we witness a motorcycle gang coming from models communities and avoiding police capture after and going in to old san juan and demonstrating in solidarity with folks are realizing that this is a moment for unity in italy alongside org. You'll accomplish something that the embattled political left was unable to do so he united them so this state sets the stage for a major transformative escort pushing puerto rico is definitely at a crossroads one. Ask you real briefly. <hes> very important sidebar here which is is at at the opposite political end of the student movement that you just you know. Beautifully described is the christian evangelical movement in bitola rico equal because we're dealing with disaster capitalism here but i think also behind the scenes is as christian evangelical movement and reason. I'm mentioning this. This is because i don't know if this took place this week or last week but one of the first things that rebuttal sale did after the scandal broke was to go to a church in quote unquote seek forgiveness for what he did. I want to know if you could briefly you know explain their role here in this because that could probably explain some of the sexism and homophobia that we saw these leak messages also it's definitely interesting the way that colorado ceo aspires to use religion login in his favor and it's important to note that protestant churches in the island are divided with respect to to the figure of colorado on one hand. You have folks that are fundamentalists who support him in aims of getting being religious freedom bills of curtailing abortion reproductive justice and these folks for the most as part many have remained loyal remains to be seen whether whether they will no longer be a line moving forward however in the past few days there are multiple churches che's and and councils of churches that are making public statements and saying we're calling for his resignation <hes> yes we got <hes> <hes> practice something expenditure skuld sink diesel just like his father he would use religion he would use religious strategically. His father described himself as a catholic protestant which no one really knows what that is <hes>. Basically it means look. I'm whatever religion you want me to be. Whenever you want it'd be and of course <hes> some folks have said some analysis have emerged about. Why did he go to this. Particular church and the analysis houses basically goes like this he went to this church because despite the fact that he grew up catholic and identifies as catholic he went to a church where he would be given the ability to speak take and to publicly <hes> quote unquote repent a something that he would not have had in a catholic church which does not allow for <hes> <unk> someone from the general public to come in and just preach right so yes religion plays a role they are by no means of aligned. There is certainly division amongst the church and we are seeing folks on the ground protesting who identify as as christians nor saying look. I am outraged because i as it's a question this does not represent. My values and we need to take a stance. We have about four minutes left in aca say right now that we've had at a very illuminating conversation and we've only just scratched the surface regards to the issue of privatizing education we didn't mention b._d._o. It would be important to know that because we see those commercials on c._n._n. And m._s._n._b._c. all the time the people no no b._d._o. Well we now know that b._d._o. Sonko route those in this case because several there officials got charged with money laundering as well but we're just about at a time so <hes> you know again again. We're just scratching the surface and who knows what's going to happen. What are not raw ceo resigns or not but this goes beyond the individual ricardo ceo. This goes beyond what's taking place this month. This effort to privatize education and other public resources in puerto rico goes even even before hurricane maria in two thousand seventeen it goes even before the fortuna administration from almost a decade ago. What do you hope people learn learn as this story and this issue privatizing education continues to to unfold as we see it today was <hes> <hes> up with again leader and intellectual once asked <unk> dunces who was asked why don't put the ricans rebel rebel in the aftermath of your game maria where there was a hashtag they became very popular in it said what because thirty call rises and in government co opted this to the point where they used it with such frequency that it totally lost significance with the public which was unable to see any sort of consequence of their actions they were unable to see any indicator of puerto rico actually rising but the tide is turning and now we're we're seeing that after months of manipulating local news coverage in fact the usage of public relation firms after manipulating polls do the usage of social media trolls and massive maintenace that they had after manipulating government reports and social media the kind of veil that they use to protect themselves thousands protect the image of ceo has fallen and finally but the recall is rising strong words from a strong guests and we'll. You just have to leave it right there. We've been speaking with fernando thermals. He say postdoctoral fellow in the scholars strategy network at the university of missouri in saint louis missouri so fernando tomas. It's an absolute pleasure and honor tabby once again. Thank you very much again for us. They just got and with that said that is it for today. Show we want to remind everyone that you could pick up this episode in our previous episodes on latino media collective dot com. That's our own website. Latino media collective elective dot com. You can also follow us on twitter and the name at l. m._c. Underscores show that is at l. Mc underscore show and of course live on w._p._f. The f. w._f._a._n. Dot o._r._g. That's w. w. f._m. That org so on behalf of my co-producer abby roberts. This is oscar fernandez saying thank you very much everyone. You're listening to the show. That's it for today's show at your muslim. 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Black Lives Matter in Costa Rica

Latino Rebels Radio

58:49 min | 9 months ago

Black Lives Matter in Costa Rica

"Hey guys it's. Latino rebels radio it is Wednesday July, twenty, second, twenty twenty and our friends at the Latino media collective gave us one of their latest podcast episodes, so we said yes, we WANNA feature it, you know they are our guest cohost sometimes so anyway. Here's the latest from the Latino. Media collective on Latino rebels radio. Could. Sounded? Off. Just visited. Greetings, greetings greetings. Told Me, coaching, Washington, and all points beyond this is Oscar Fernandez and you're listening to Latino media collective recorded that the studios W W eighty nine point three FM Washington District of Columbia here on this Friday July tenth two thousand twenty. Were also heard on the Internet on. Website which is Latino collective dot com. Also find us on twitter at in the name at L.. AMC underscores show that is at Ellen MC underscore show, and of course live on the VP of wfan or Jesus WPF wfan that Org. Once again this is Oscar Fernandez and today on the show we put the spotlight on Costa Rica and how the Black Lives Matter Movement challenges the stereotype of Costa Rica as a quote Unquote Switzerland of Latin, America. Any true student of Latin American history knows that the African diaspora has long face struggles for equal rights and social justice in places like Lumbia Brazil. The Dominican Republic etc, etc.. Costa Rica Hand flies under the radar on the struggles for social justice because of its perception as a stable democracy free from the same geopolitical struggles faced by other countries in the Western Hemisphere. But in the struggle for social justice, perception is not always reality. Costa Rica Micro notice. Costa Rica might fly under the radar. And a few problems facing Costa Rican society today might be minor compared to historical problems in other countries in that America. However black lives matter movement has changed the game. There is a new dawn developing forever Latinos. Is challenging the complacency and perception of Costa Rica. Switzerland of Latin America. And so this movement in Costa Rica under the Lens of black lives, matter deserves a new examination of what it means to be an Afro Costa Rican and so witless on the show today is Pamela Cunningham. She's an Afro Costa Rican activist and the CO founder of Costa Rica Afro. She joins us over the phone today from Costa. Rica welcome to Chopin on Cunningham. I are. Are You thinking? Is a pleasure to have you on the show I today. We've been dying to do a show on Costa Rica for a long time. And for the black lives, matter of movement and the momentum that is carried various in America is gives us the opportunity to do so, but before we get into detail about the movement as it pertains to Costa Rica. Let's first begin by talking about. What is your organization? Go Study Afro and the work that you guys do. Of course, so puts the Cup an apple feminist organization. We're focused on providing visibility. Lobbying in favor of the human rights of the Africa getting population, and he really started as A. Response of sorts of Of the exclusion that we felt from the white feminist movement industry. So? We decided to to create our owner. Invasion a lot less structured I'm more focused on results. THAN ON HIGHER So we've been working for the last five to six years of sharing our our knowledge and learning from others both in and outside of academia. Lobbying for change and using social media specialty to provide education and disability to the struggle. Yeah indeed, and that's what brought us to our attention Costa Rica Afro was social media. Let's through the few Costa, Rican. Followers of ours our twitter bodice to your attention, so in light of recent momentum created by the black lives matter movement. How has it perhaps magnified some issues? The African study community that has otherwise been neglected by the rest of the country. Because again you know part is, conversation is not just black lives, matter, but also sort of as a form of deconstructing the myth of Costa Rica's. Shangri law the Switzerland of land America where nothing. Really happens when compared to its neighbors and other historical. You know history historical points inland American history. Correct show. It is true and we. Went compared to our neighbors in Central America or South America. We've had relative piece, right? We don't have an army so We haven't seen civil war since nineteen forty eight. Doesn't. That doesn't. Mean that we haven't had our internal conflicts with ric. Rica's deeply. Racist Society and the nationals ace identity has been created in a position to what is a black or indigent, so the the whole idea of being Costa Rican has been constructed Abban whiteness rate so the. Afro descendants indigenous population amongst others in the country have been ignored or have disability rights so. This this have been issues that have been happening. Since forever but the idea nine countries that you know we don't have this issues. racial problems are problems are outside because. We're all the same rate in Costa Rica. We like to do the. We like to call ourselves because I. we like to call ourselves. Because race, so we are all the same you reality. We're not the black individuals populations have. Less access to help less actors to work to to help services to education to leadership positions. So, and we don't have a lot of data. On on exactly, what are our needs? Because we are not being tracked, we might even track upper clean census rate, so would vishnu momentum. It has generated a lot of questions right, so I look. People have asking themselves This happened in Costa Rica. We have issues of race in Costa Rica. Of course, it has created as well so backlash because some people want to believe that we don't have issue so race. It Costa Rica that racism doesn't. Rate but it has highlighted some some of those issues. It has given us an opportunity to discuss things that maybe were not discussed before the appropriation of the land of of. Africa's to reconsider the Atlantic coast, apple or the lack of access to to different Opportunities that other populations have so. It has been kind of an eye opening moment for Afro, Costa Ricans and Costa. Rica's in general, it has come with its backlash of course I always happens unfortunately, but he has created some momentum on our side as well, and and he needed some questions around. What has the Costa Rican state done historically to oppress the descendant population, and what can be done to make those changes? That are needed. It's always left me scratching my head. Why isn't these issues regards to fool Costa Ricans? Not Publicize or not known about a lot more often in shirt, because you just mentioned the issue of of of land and the appropriation and sometimes misappropriation of land. It's almost sort of a mirror image issue. That the Gutty Funez, for example in Honduras are facing. And also an issue that. African London's have have face since the quote unquote drug war. For for decades now. Yet you know those issues were in Honduras in Columbia respectively have gun, perhaps a lot more documentation than in Costa Rica, but the one common denominator it seems is the issue of land. And just as importantly is the resources on those lands correct. Correct, so because we have a I would say two big issues. The indigenous populations have been. Invaded by non indigenous people and their land misappropriated and actually to indigenous. Activists have been killed. Recently in the last two three years Because of confrontations related to land. That's one issue which is pressing and. Addressing immediately then there's another historical issue which is the land in the in the Atlantic. part of the country where most of the average attendance lists for many years was nod How do you say that McLeish was not? Illegally owned by them so when when? Neil settlers. Let's call him back. I rise to the to the to the state. They started appropriating those slacks right so if it has generated issues on indexes, so there's different issues and I think maybe the one the one from turn around Costa Rica's that when you compare Costa Rican issues to Colombia or doers, or even in Panama the issues that they're having with lands when you compare them, our issues are probably much smaller than theirs right. So it's easy to Kai sweep it under the rug and say well. You know you're not that bad. We have kind of believe that it's not that bad but in reality it is if there's one person that is not able to own the land that historically has been there then we have an issue right because it's not only about the piece of land is about the cultural heritage in the whole community that is built around that, so I think one of the issues was. I think was Rica has been very good in advertising itself as as a tourism. Attractive country as a as a place of peace, and you know cultural bracy knee, and all those things we are true, but. We have this tendency of. Ignoring whatever we don't like so whatever we don't like, or whatever is going to cause a confrontation or discussion. We'd rather not talk about it, so the issues of the afropop population have. Been served under the rug and not discussed for generations, and what that has to be aided is will ignorant around our issues and dismissal around our issues. That's a very fair point to make because inequality by any measure is still inequality, no matter how small may be compared to its neighbours, like in the case of Columbia or Honduras. Now, what brought us to this conversation? Today is definitely the black lives matter movement. And WanNA chief issues in recent months has been the case of George Floyd. In Costa Rica one case it seemed to pop up. You know doing my research in today's show is a case of entrance Donald W. you'll know. How much you could speak to this, but I wanna know if you know. As an example or PAPS, one example of The the inequality faced by Afro Costa Ricans custody. Can you tell us about this case? And surrendered. The was a young man that. A couple of years ago when Costa Rica was discussing changing, some of policy are bound. Tax and fiscal thing changes There were some protests going on in. which is the province where it's SORTA clete, black populations in relations live, so he was a by standard an innocent bystander in one of those clashes with the belief He was killed and then. That's where where. versions of the situation changed only focus her say that he was being aggressive, and he was participating in the in the riots. Quote Unquote and that he was. A victim of a fire that was coming from the writers of people that have been there about where. And I'd pretty, so what happened are say that I was a police that shot it right. He was a bystander who was on the. Sidewalk and he was not participating in the Indo situation the uprising, but he was He was killed. Select one case because. Also. Says George Hoyt than all of the? Situations. Around police brutality the US. Maybe people have asked. Has that happened? 'CAUSE? Rita and we have the taste of Antwon, but we also have the case of William Movie Malcolm which You Is even I would say words He was A young man as well. That was tortured by police right In that happened I. Think maybe ten fifteen years ago in was. Even before nineteen, ninety-three actually the authorities Him and tortured him, and he was, he disappeared. She was tortured and he was the victim of inhuman and degrading treatment or punishment and They went to trial, and of course nothing happened and actually one of the person that was art of this situation of this. Challenge situation is now the owner of a private security firm. We learned just recently right, so those are the probably two cases that we can think about, but you really have to deep dive to find this information, who is not readily available, and it's not something that we discussed, and I remember that maybe a month and a half ago. I was having a conversation on twitter with I forget her name, but she was person from Panama and and I was I was thinking you. Costa Rica thinks they're not as bad I mean we don't get killed and then when when all this happened and I started. Doing my research I started thinking well, you know where where's the line? Do we need to have people being killed by the police brutality for us to say we're having a bad and things need to change right of that was. My My PINTER's point that I initially agree with, but now I do so. I would say that I. Mean if you look at the big scheme of things. Because he doesn't have situation at the level that the US has or Colombia or Brazil by one life is one too many right either Antoine or William. The Muslim measor of those two people should have died. In the hands of police and they should. They deserved justice, and they didn't received rate and the fact that we don't know about them that we don't know about what happened to them. and it's not widely discussed as an issue of race in the country is part of the problem. Because again, we sweep things under the rug. That's another thing that leaves me scratching my head up until recently. I didn't know anything about the case of Antoine. Sodano! And I certainly didn't know anything about this case of William the Malcolm. and. This is something that I think people inland America should know more about, but it goes back to what you just said a moment ago that the powers that be in Costa Rica really do a good job in presenting the country as Safe peaceful best in for for tourism, but that is certainly not the case. No matter how small the injustices ain't may be like we said before. Any degree of injustice is doing justice, no matter how you measure it now, obviously, because of this ongoing pandemic there, we're going through throughout the whole world. You know 'cause there. You can't hold the same protests. You know or perhaps are a little bit more responsible about holding protests in. Saint here here in the US, but nonetheless. Afro held virtual protest. Last month on the second and looks like he had more than one thousand people participating in this. Can you tell us about the response that you had here will was the feedback that you got and what was. Perhaps some things that took you by surprise or less a great impression on you. So. on an action that West planned. Between her organization invasion a symptom of Costa Rica. shapers Costa Rica and collector transparencies rates. Groups, that basically joined and created the the black lives matter Costa Rica, movements and We organized us to be honest with you. I am kind of dated. So I thought you know we're GONNA call this and you know. Twenty people are going to show up between people that always show up and and it's just you know pass. But We were pleasantly surprised to see a lot of people getting involved. I mean People that usually don't take spanned on this kind of situations actually took US standards avoided. We have as you said more than thousand people join our virtual meeting. People created their own You know back life matters Posters to share individual meeting English shared in. He was trending topic three days, two or three days in a row into Costa Rica we. We were in the news. We were written about so it was a moment of inflection rate. Costa Rica people that were. Wanting to support, they'd Black Lives Matter Movement It took a stand. We also were asking for donations, and we made a rough estimate, and we believe who were able to to support. The black lives matter movement in the US with about thirty five hundred dollars I know. It's not a lot of by US measures, but I mean I didn't expect ten. It was a huge huge impact. So if it was really interesting to see that we had families joining the virtual march hide individuals. We had groups. We had congressmen and congresswomen joining. It was really a change maker and and it could. Finney agreed one hundred stations. Actually. Projected the black lives matter fist of. Signed into the walls of Congress rate, and that image was so powerful to me because he really sad. You know we are here we're doing something. We want to demonstrate our support, and those were things that we didn't. Even Organiz organically decided to do things to demonstrate their support of the movement and Allison that what we have seen. A lot of conversation around racism and a raises of things that usually I mean wouldn't have been talked. About are being talked about just recently maybe. Three or four days ago, there was a whole controversy because there were some teenagers in tech top using the N. Word and being racist, and they were called out, and they were. Even. You know they're they're. They're high schools. Where were contacted and asked? What are you doing, you're. students and we you know we when I. Say we the activists in the country. We didn't do it. It was other people that were called to do it and feel like this. Is this this to not be tolerated so for me? It has been kind of a before and after right. He was a deeply moving moment. brought some of tears to see the support, and it has generated lot of discussions. Bad had not been talked about before. People are questioning our forefathers and and the racist practices. People have talked about A. Statue down people. We have talked to Congress people about passing affirmative action loss which you know isolated you three months ago. You told me that we were going to be having that conversation. I would've told you know for sure now. I mean nobody would want to talk about this, but it happened. Since this demonstration of support, of course, was that say it has also created a bull shoals and and Congress people that want to to Montaigne status quo, but but the good thing in my eyes, because I wanted to think obviously is that there's people that are calling them out. That are straight up. Saying what data what you said is racist and I understand what you're doing. Bat Way, inform yourself go here. Go there and talk to this person. You earn ignorance and and the studied. It's not US doing it again. It's not us. The activists do win. It is other people putting themselves out there. Being real allies for long on this is precisely why we want to have you on the show. Now need to discuss this in open. The is where people may not be familiar with. You know these historical social issues in Costa Rica, but also to as a way to continue. This momentum has been created by the black lives, matter, movement. because. You know quite frankly it's. It's crucial I think in in the case of Costa Rica to deconstruct the myth of Costa Rica being the Switzerland of Latin America the are real, current and historical issues, in Costa. Rica that as you said need to be addressed, and they are no different from from the ones that the neighbors in Colombia Panama and Nicaragua Honduras. Who are near the? The country in Latin America has a sizeable historic Afro, Latino Community. It's something that needs to be addressed in. The something needs to be challenged, and it's something that needs to be deconstructed in the name of racial and social justice, so we're going to take a break right here. We're speaking with Pamela Cunningham. She's an African American activist and the Co. founder of Costa Rica Afro. Latino media collective. Ticket quick break right here. Beckwith morning minute stay tune. Bye. Bye. College. and. Nine. Drew. Battle. Rigged. So then we. Old. Data! took. Known. To Your. mind. added. Now with that. That was the Koei Calypso band. You're listening to Latino media collective. W Eighty nine point three FM Washington reminding everyone. Did you check us out on own website? which is Latino media collective DOT COM? You can also follow us on twitter. Name at an emcee underscores show that is at L. AMC. Show and of course live on WPF W.. F., end or GWP FW, FM DOT ORG once again. This is Oscar Fernandes and we're talking about. The black lives matter movement in Costa Rica. We're joined by PAMELA CUNNINGHAM WHO's in Africa's Rican activist and the CO founder of Costa Rica Afro, so family, you know we've done several shows on the African diaspora in central, America and I think most people in the audience are aware that the majority of the Afro Latino Community routes into America's throughout the Atlantic coast from from Belize all the way down to Panama. We've spoken in the past about the Funada's in Honduras and also the Afro Latino community as a mixed with the indigenous community places like like Nicaragua. We've regards to Costa Rica. Much like Central American neighbors. They're pretty much. You know for the most part and you correct me. If I'm wrong, we'll see have historical roots along the Atlantic coast, so you know from a geographical point of view, and not to mention geopolitical World Cadet Pratt's explain the disconnect between Afro Latinos and the rest of Costa Rica because all your see Central America's not a Monolithic Society and away after Latinos are treated in Honduras me, not be the same as in Costa Rica. Yeah it could exploded in wage, but you know Costa Ricans have has roots all over Costa Rica rate. I think one of the issues is will. The fact is that? Many of the Afro Caribbean people emigrated to Costa Rica, and greatest to be Mon, which is the Atlantic part of the country and They emigrated with the idea of going back to their countries right when they ended up being Basically stuck here the government and the states. They. Basically! Worked on dismantling their community, their society, prohibiting English schools and and kind of forcing assimilation rate and I think this is my personal opinion. I, think that Costa Ricans in in many did work hard on assimilating raid, and and the fact. Is that Costa? Rica's a as a general culture or just people. We are pretty much non-confrontational and and that kind of rubbed off. I think because Many of the efforts that maybe when I, when I think about people in Bluefields or people to refer people rate, people in new stunning, in Guatemala or people in. In Panama have have worked together to. To. You know kind of reclaim. The land reclaimed their culture because we think I could have done it swell, but the power is. The structural powers in the country really have pushed hard on assimilation I need has happened right we have in in many instances been assimilated and And and that's kind of. Caused a rift there's I. Don't see necessarily. The level of unity between the advocacy can people that we see in I know. hundred search sample right where you know, there's a coalition of groups that are have a clear agenda that they are pressing towards. We have different groups of activists in Costa Rica pressing for different subject, but that cohesiveness between the community I at least right now in my lifetime I don't know before, but right now. I don't see it as clearly and I think that's one of the areas where we definitely need to work on to kind of. Create that network at Community of people with an objective that could. Uplift as as as a group in St. L. Individually I don't know I may. Know it does make sense because again. It's hard to have. Because as I said before Central America's not a monolithic. Society so the treatment of African Americans is vastly different from what I've. Hondurans are facing right now especially with. Their current government quote unquote that they've had for the last eleven. Years is a profoundly different problem. They're facing, so you can't necessarily expect to have the same of cohesion because it's a different set of problems from country to country. With that said before we took the break you talked about you. Know the the momentum and sort of spontaneous actions. Costa Ricans have taken. You know in light of the black lives matter movement. You know it's not just here in the US, but it's worldwide, and so I wonder if you could give us some details about the black lives matter petition. That's been pushing closer. Towards the Costa Rican government and which organizations are leading petition. This is also very important. One of them is. We have what we call that commission out. Afro in Costa, Rica which is kind of like the. Thar or liaisson of. would. The would the government between the Afro Population and the government right so he's a commissioner so but it is a Without, a salary position without an office, right, we are really are asking. The State of Costa Rica to fund that rate We think that in order to create public policy and push towards. We cannot do it on while in tearing alone. We really need somebody that has an office that has budget, and that that has a salary right because that would be their job so that is one of the petitions that we have are reading, and then the other one is Rica. We have a big gap. Right it right now. I am the victim of racism. I have nowhere to go. There's no law that really penalizes racism, or even as testifies what it is right. If many people sometimes reach outwards Costa Rica and tell us you I suffered this this happened to me. What can I do? Usually you've got to have those to a woman. They can go to the to the. Secretary the Office of of the. School. That means video where. necessarily. Can Go there and and advanced her teeth. Even if they go to the Ombudsman Office, there's a a group an office force for women issues. There's an office. For. Digitize People's issues, but there's no office for Costa Rican issues rape. There's no. Though that pushes affirmative actions or or pushes Specific changes so. There, have been changes things have happened. Would we have had the? Luck of having congresspeople that one to take. The. Take this This changes or take this agenda. There's, but we cannot rely on the. You know the good intentions of politicians. We really need to have a law in Costa, Rica that says racism is not correct. You cannot target people if you target people because of the race. Then there's going to be caused quizzes and there are. State agencies that are going to oversee the and that are going to overseas the next steps in creation of public policy toward equality. Because if we don't do that if we don't put if we. Put Our our, Our, our money where mouses we're really not making any changes right. We're saying that we want to things we do what we want, but by by. There's no really no. No agenda for the for the state to make changes, so those are basically the international weather. Two petitions are about and We wanted to gather around five thousand signatures. I know that for the. Commissioner's petition, we were close to that of where like forty, five hundred, and for the affirmative action one where like thirty, nine, hundred, forty thousand, and so we're closed. You can go to Costa top doing and find our in our. The linked to to that air. In. but But we are still working on it right. We are trying to provide more visibility to this petitions and advanced. Basically a database. This petition I think is a lot more important than people realize as it pertains to Central America because I could tell you that as a Salvadorian. That you know whether this petition succeeds or not. It should be a moment where Central America as a whole not just Salvadorian notice, Eka but Central America has as a whole needs to take a real long hard look in the mirror at the history of racism throughout Central America from the top down and the racism that has been normalized and accepted in Central American society. Would it be to Latinos the indigenous and everyone in between? It should be looked at as long hard look in America's. BEEN TARGETS OF RACISM or we've seen. Racist actions are not in Sintra. American society needs to take a long hard look into mirror. At each respective country, and as if they can even do something even remotely close to this petition that people in Costa Rica are doing right now now. I to say that you know it's. It's very important. Point now, that Costa Rica has first. Afro Latina Vice President Inland America that's Epson Campbell bar that one to the best of your abilities, if you could tell us the significance of FC, Camel Bar, being the first African American as the country's vice president, because here's the thing for me. It's great that she she is. And is great that she did a video several weeks ago about the murder of George Floyd. But considering the work that you do and you know, the petition is being passed right now or being attempted to pass closer. Rica is pretty clear that power structures from the top down are not necessarily agents for social change. It starts from the grassroots level from the bottom up. With that said you know what is the significance of FC? Campbell Boras the first ever Latina Vice President in America. Did ignificant of her work and herself are. Impacting in different areas so hers I would say will reverse inflation mattis rate so having her. They're in a position of power. Where you know, she has been very visible. She has been even attacked. Because of the because she's a woman and a black woman, in particular has has been significant rate of Epson has worked for a long time In the grassroots organizations basically bought himself in, and she got their rights. She got there. She got to the to the vice presidency or Costa. Rica answer office had they can There have stake in. Our agenda, the agenda change and advanced age, so she has a And her office have made Significant. Progress. Especially in discussing Things that need to be discussed and in advancing Pity through panels through conferences through being there right Many of the areas that we wanted to discuss, so I think i. Heard importance in being herself rate. She's a role model for me for many other Costa Rican women and for women in general right so being very important, it means that you know hardwork dedication if you wanna take the route of political. Office. Depot make change. She is the first one right, and it has significance bad truly. Order to make change for our community. We have to be there right. We have to have a set of at the table. And we're usually not invited, so it's great that she is at the table and she can You know focus a as much as she gets on the on on the agenda that we're trying to event. That's not the only agenda. She has tried to advance. She has worked in many other things that are not related to Costa Rica so I think it has been a good balance and then. I, think it's important in general for the for the. Latin America. Population that grow Latino population to see. Somebody that is is making a change Drayton to see unfortunately how she has been act because they have brought the opportunity to discuss things like the surging work talk about things about how black people are so, people have to work twice as hard you know. She has been questioned the things that no other men and no other white or miss up. Person has ever been questioned on, and it's sad that she has to carry a on her back and she has to. Suffer for change, but but It has over discussions that that had not been talked about right so the fact that we are able now to say. This actually Campbell bright like the vice president of the country, the fact that we can go and say She's not referred with respect. She's constantly question. She is viewed as aggressive is when she's not. Rights with the opportunity of discussing things that are happening to other after women. In in the country and in the diaspora at that, maybe we were not able to discuss before so I think that you know. Miss Campbell is very close to my heart I admire her tremendously and I think she has done a log for us, and she has sacrificed herself for the community and and I am deeply in Copeland back for for that and I hope people realize during the courses conversation that when it comes to the black lives, matter boom and Costa Rica. It's it's women who are leading the charge in this in this struggle for racial equality in Costa Rica. Now it's not that often that we get to talk about issues in Costa Rica. And I think we should take advantage of this now. Because one of the things at the black lives matter, movement has done is now only talk about you know police brutality in the US, but also has brought awareness to. Historical figures in the case of the US historical figures him been. Romanticized. In practice in recent years, but who, in reality where historically? Horrible human beings for a variety of reasons, namely for the injustices done against people of Color. And so I think you mention this in passing earlier on the show that you know, there are some historical figures Costa Rica. Who may be romanticized now, but have now been called. Into question and you know their historical record is put in under a microscope. I WanNa know you know perhaps to the best of your ability to. Name a few figures that need to be reexamined in Costa Rican society. Of course so. Many of our unfortunately I have to say forefathers because there has been a lot of women that have been ready to that level. Of where bassist rate and I. I I WANNA say I understand by by I understand what I don't understand is the fact that we went to deny? The raises the rate so for example when we talked about Wadia. Her Nakal. he was Yes, he was one of the architect of our social security in Costa. Rica health insurance. which is. You. Know probably the best thing that Cossiga had right. That's social and solidarity network of Health, but also when he was. The Minister of of immigration he, he advanced. Laws that declared black people undesirable and we didn't want. One! That kind of undesirable people here so we we should be able to talk about. We should be able to to talk about the the duality of our leaders. Because we we cannot expect perfection I think we should the man corey coherence right, so we have a lot that we have. We have to be even some authors. That I would be low in Costa Rica like. Me Leader they all had instances where we can clearly pinpoint the racism right? What would be raised with his Book Korea? Which is an abomination We'd constantly have to bring it up right and and it's like. From my perspective is not up for discussion. It's the air. It's clear raises, and they said it we didn't we don't you know we don't think back three hundred years where we suspect what they said. No, no, no, we know what they said. They wrote it down, so it's not like it's not up for discussion. So what I think we need to do is to say. Say those names stay. You left to say don't. Say All those names army leader, say those names, and and let's understand. What they, what they did was racist, and how would prevent that from happening again? And how question our current leaders right because our current leaders are repeating some of the things that were said fifty sixty one hundred years ago. For, example, which is, there's a statue of. One of our most most prominent. He he history says that he was a Nazi supporter. So, why why do we not WanNa talk about that reign, so both of names that I like to repeat to sometimes you win a cost chocolate. People say why. What do you mean by that, so they can go back and do some research right? Because also people want you to give them all the information like clearly dissected just with them to consume, but I think it's important for people to go back to their only search, get to their own conclusions, and they will see that they would get to the sink of cushions. We have rate. Why are we so invested in saying? We don't have a racist past when we do right at Infra me. I I don't think. Denying. It makes makes any any good. It's important to confront your demons, and it's important to to relax if we can. If we're some boys are are are able to say. Yes, this person X., Y. receive. That was good, but they also be ABC. That was truly bad, and we need to make sure that our current leaders don't do that, then we, we will be able to progress, but as long as we keep to try as long as we keep trying to silence, dissent or silence you know the the? More, Sinister Breitbart over four fathers than we. I think we're doomed to repeat. Our mistakes. I mean currently we have high profile politicians that support Help. Help Towel explained to me right It's like Sir you put one foot in the US, and you'll probably be attacked by the people that you're supporting today, but they don't have that level of understanding night. Blame our our education You know our our education organization. And and structure so to summarize respond to your your questions. Some of those Maine's are there. I think it's important to call them out. I think it's important for us to call. Are Racist Past because because it, it could be to happen, and even you know people that we might think today that are also doing great things, and you stand them. We have to question them and we have to say well. No this thing that they're doing is not the best team of their whitewashing. Or they are not supporting. You know Change I mean recently happened to me. My daughter I have sixteen year old daughter, and she loves Hamilton but I. Recently read you know. I didn't pay attention to what Hamilton was I read up. And I read about. How the Puerto Rican! Population is suffering because of A. People like the Lebron wealth who are not supporting the. Or Defending Puerto Rico. So you have to inform yourself and and basically kill your idols, and say okay. Yeah, like your music by X., Y. and Z. that you're doing is not up with me, and then you know may could then. Take the necessary next steps. To to be. Aligned. With with your your thoughts and your activism will. We're out of time right now, but it's very clear that in Costa Rica. The black lives matter movement is not the end of a conversation, but rather the new dawn of a new way of looking. At Costa Rica for the Lens, of Afro Costa Ricans. People of Color and those have been disenfranchised in a place like Costa Rica and so conversations, not the end, but rather the beginning, and it's because of organizations like Costa Rica Africa's, so we've been speaking. We're Pamela Cunningham she's an African. American, activist and the CO founder of Costa Rica Afro. I strongly encourage everyone to check out their website, which is Costa, Rica Afro Dot Com Pamela Cunningham. It's been a pleasure. Thank you very much for being on the show today. Thank you for inviting me. Absolutely and with that said as if today's show when want to remind everyone you get, check us out on our website, which is the collective dot com goes, follow us on twitter under the name at L. MC underscores show, and of course live on the UPS Wfan Dot Org. That's W., W., FM that or so bad, my co-producer. Oscar Fernandes saying thank you very much. Everyone for listening to show. That's it for today. Show at. Joe. Fact.

Costa Rica Costa Rica Costa Costa Rica Afro Rica Costa Rica Micro Costa Rica Hand US Costa Rican society Costa Ricans Costa Rica Costa Ricans America Costa Rica Africa twitter Rica Pamela Cunningham Costa Rican Honduras Costa Rican
Black Lives Matter in Honduras

Latino Rebels Radio

57:01 min | 7 months ago

Black Lives Matter in Honduras

"Hey guys. Latino rebels radio. So our friends at the Latino media collective who have done guests shows in the past gave as one of their shows and here it is. Fact. took. Off. took. Staff. into. Canal. Greetings greetings, greetings even meals told told in this could channel in Washington and points beyond this is Oscar Fernandez and you're listening to Latino media collective recorded at studio of WPF. W Eighty, nine point three FM Washington. DC to Columbia here on this Friday September four, two, thousand, twenty. Were also heard on the Internet on own website, which is Latino meaty collective dot com. You can also find us on twitter under the name at L.. M. C. underscores show and of course, live on the W FM DOT ORG. That's WPF W FM that. Once. Again, this is Oscar Fernandez and today on the show we put the spotlight on on Lula's in a continued struggle for social justice by the getty food. Against, the violence and intimidation from the illegitimate Honduran government. Today's show marks the beginning of a series of stories connected in various ways to the black lives matter movement inland America. In the case of on Dudas gutty fullness struggle for social justice started long before the coup in two thousand nine. Yet perhaps now, more than ever the illegitimate government has become even more brazen and hostile towards the Honduran community of African descent. So, what's at stake in Honduras? The immediate problem is the kidnapping disappearing in outright murderer of gutty activists and social leaders. The long term problem is the systematic array. Of Garifuna Land Culture and very existence in on us. In addition as is often, the case racism plays a role in state violence. So today's show is out to make it clear their black lives do matter in on Dudas. So whiff on the show today as Gregoria Florida's she is a got food and activist and a CO founder of Gutty community services the. US base in the Bronx New York. She joins us today via skype. Welcome to show Grigoriev Florida's. Thank you so much for having me here. Today is my bless her Oscar could be with you in this. And Lisa great opportunity to me to speak out was really going on in Honduras and especially my community across. Absolutely. It's an honor to have you with us, and there's some immediate things that are happening right now even as we have this conversation in on dudas but before we get to some immediate issues with several gutty phone activists being taken, shall we say by Honduran government officials? Let's begin by explaining to people what is of run For an eighth ow Blackberry Organization in Honduras over Anna's founder because of beggar from the people. Estar. Sophomore in. Cain of that discrimination in the city close to the our community. So offer they work clothes they work with that all reflect community. To, defend and to make sure everybody in the community days enjoying the human rights. And Human Rights is certainly the issue at hand here on this conversation because in recent months has been increased violent possibilities by the Honduran government towards the getty fullness. So I want to the best of your ability if you could. Tell us about the incident that took place on July eighteenth in full delacruz on duress. This is also very historic city or town in under a spaghetti fullness. Correct. EAC. Is One of the forty forty, seven community in Honduras myself funder for one sisters after became often the display from. From The people came first from and. That was a farce espace that people? Does the land after. After that was bringing from San be think. So the after they came to heal and the answer they open the forty-seven community. So why does the across the cruise I'm from? I'm born there for my my parents might. Arrays with my. Sisters and community. Buried Pacific community and the way will come in the community. My aunts my father's tell us at home. Always everybody's coming to Delacour do have to welcome everybody and you have if you have something some food, they provide A. And they need rest from the next day, give the space even the coroner to the person get get rest for the next day to continuing journal. So that's the way our parents. Make us a racing community. So all the time is normal for us to see the Community Fund Anada community that people never for the coming for the city to sell different kinds of. Things and. We have the Pacific living in our community but something happened after the eighty, nineteen, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, nine, nineteen. Ninety nineteen because the. The estar selling, our lance west going on with us because when we request. The. Legal communication about. Our land. That Guerrero Limiting Honduras? They do something. That was nice normal and that was not something they not supposed to do because they increase the land for. Policy and they put our land like a Gary flipper from. Inside the limit of land from municipality that of Taylor. So If that's. Saline, our land. So the organization to develop theories me our community. So that's a time our. Situation, they gained worse on this started the persecution about our leaders in our community. That leads us to the incident that took place on July eighteenth and to central figures. In this incident, wear some some activists were taken by government forces is. Albert, Snyder, just you'll. So for those who may not can you tell us who he is and perhaps the four or five other. Activists there were taking on that same day on July. Nine hundred. Thou- president of the communities apart dramatic policy. For our president and our community and it's with a four. John boy from our community. A. When I think of Wenham, speak about that they come to be so hard for me because those does people does John People, there's people assault even I saw her mom when the federalist with them and they burn in in the middle of the conflict we have an is neither that's one of the jute people. Dylan are really see with responsibility. In Cori- that every John People in our community to. Be Bottles down this deep be part of the the Jarl we doing for. Me Don't Martinez. Swami Bdo it's neither Centeno without two guys with them. That was we'll take those kidnapping those taken from. When they sleeping in and then? The police came and took. Our five John Boys as facial our presidents they took it and today's the day. We don't know nothing about as we claiming to bring our boys. Back And Life. Absolutely, Let's hope they do come back. Safely because there is a dark frame of reference and we need to point out here because this has been a very to say the least a very violent You know coup government that we've seen illegitimately in Honduras since two thousand nine and the violence has been seen at the very least here in the US with the growing number of hundred immigrants fleeing violence has been taking place by this US support a government, and unfortunately we do have a frame of reference of. To at the very least be concerned about the safety of Albert Scientists Centennial's. So for example, would you tell us who was Munis Oiseaux. Meanness Vassall. Isao one. Woman, accused the president of the company that the mascot that's in the bottom into the Cortez she's a president of the patron appaling how community and she was a kidnapping to she was kidnapping. Somebody came with a motorcycle. Sunday, September eight Sunday September eighth beaten Swat Martinez. Was Mortar by and the. Person, but we know the. Mutinous, Wessel Taoist. From the State Because T. A farce ripper, daddy fundamental percent in this time how how community? That's community always dealing with them with a woman Some senators time we don't have the woman deal behind the main but meal that was. From, of the situation in Chris, the situation and somebody came and kill her. After win the. The two. Cent is neither WENTZEL MOSCA AFTER. The. kidnapping. And that the person of our community see? What? I was in the Arizona community the person give the security inside the community those with us later that person. West. Kill it. Was Kidnapping in Moscow when they got to provide the support to the community, and so this is why it's cause for concern once again about the safety of of Snyder centennial and the four other gutty activist. Admin. You know taken by government forces at the government has made it very clear now knee in these cases but for bass eleven years that they will resort to violence. And and outright murder of Gutty foon activists and having a conversation about or Friday we cannot happen without mentioning the hell of of Oh funding medium me Donda. She's she still you know active working but at the same time, she's as we have this conversation, an undisclosed location because she's also fearing for her safety as well. Can you tell us who is who is medium? Yes He. Is. The coordinator of. Different effort analogous say. So, meter and that is is the faith is the face of the. Is the face of the organization in Honduras and In, the national or some Mirian data chief she was. NEOM life is. Some, some someone with trying to, we're trying to cover every day. We always concern about security. In favor in. Your feet or? Whatever she goes I remember in nineteen ninety, four somebody came and trying to kill me. So the media and the life, very impressive for us. On. We I was concerned about security. Asking the. Everybody facial any. The Nationality Cezanne, Conduit Organization, we are always looking to. Mixture the. Have to be safe. Like. Ishaq line our leaders in our community. Because, if they leave here they. One of the point. Need to mention in. The brother from the piano that person. Witness. A witness affront those that are interamerican cart about the. Case. That's awesome. West I for how community they disappear for six days. After the six days, we've found the body that was killed now was. infantile travel in those. I would I would live at she. And I need to mention another one signatories. Or those a precedent for. That Organization to this and I'm take the land for through. Thorough. WAS DISAPPEAR IN A. At twenty three, thousand eighteen, and these moments. We don't know nothing about. Flores week claiming and we asked what is. Came Kim background community and took care back to her family. So and best offensively. Happen with women every day. Man That will respect me. Is. She put in her life and risks every community for each. People in. Honduras. Gregoria you mentioned a few minutes ago about perhaps. The motivations financial motivations by the Honduran government of taking gutty lands. So just to make the geography real clear that even though think WORC- gallopers, the capital dudas The financial center won't do. This is San. Pedro Sula, which is a little bit closer to the Atlanta Kohl's and not that far away from places like three or four delacruz enroll it down just to name a few gutty places. So what's at stake here? What is it that you know? What is it that the Honduran government wants inward in regards to this land? Is it is it? Natural, resources is it tourism? What is on he from the lands that Honduran you know the Honduran government wants so badly that they've done. The all sorts of violent things to what he got. He fullness. Yes Barroso Nice. Copied imposture capital from Honduras and every is to is bell close to. Cruise is we travel in the boss is like. One hour or forty five minutes to be. The way you have to go through the course so And we live in and the beach we live on the beach with Salaam coast. Of course border from Honduras. So we had the bristles land to make the tourism. So in the in the In the night in the nineteen thirties. GWENDA mistakes they make planning Su at develop. And the. And the cost Lord and that Garifuna communities lands. So these plan. A been the. They be. This plan, the state have. To remove the community people on our land. So Mick, Shaw, they be useful to develop tourism and. That another situation happened is fast that the community leaving between the Conservation of the of the NATO resources so that so one of the that's one of the best reason. When they declare the conservation area in our community after that, they use that decleration sold mixture Gabe our land who? To people to come to development tourists in our community. So specific through for Lagos almost in the middle of. Three area of conservation wireless settled through for the LACROSSE and other one zero t great yet another the third one is. So after that, when they make the declaration of that, they give the right flood mini straight our area of life to Organizational Nagpur Lansing. So then essential NASA day working the concentration of the area they're not respect the right that community. Like through across across. Your natural resources. Today to daily leaving the daily life. So that's the thing that's a man reason. That estatal state of Honduras. They they. The, most beautiful portion for. Documentation to give through the municipality. animalistic. Defend the land to. Development Tourism and they take for us. They think our natural resources. Another way that the Honduran government is trying to take Gutty fournette lands accused that Gotti Funez themselves of drug trafficking. Now, for those who may not know you know, can you explain in Honduras the irony? Funny Irony of the government of one Orlando anonymous accusing. Of Dirk traffic because you know a lot of people may not be familiar with on May may find it weird that he among among many other people would have accused of drug trafficking when drug trafficking has been you know. Part of the Honduran government particularly his. Is Buried interesting is very widely really happened in Honduras because we when we leave in Honduras and when we be on Dorian we know that we have that. Door. Drove state. We have that drug state why we say that because the president of Dora and how brother. Hernandez. was. In that, just a system here in the United States. And there was found want responsible for trafficking from drawing Honduras and we know in Honduras. London and is the president for. Day Use all the resources from the state. To move. Drug from Honduras to make sure Aldo coming from the South America, they can go safely from Honduras to come to the United States so and the heroic simulation in the in that part is right now. Gordon from they asked. The. Leader they accusing the members of our community like A. Drug trafficking. And the WHO is the don't traffic in Honduras easson. They till house. If the president of hundred and her family. That's a one day. And they best the how they on infrastructure to move the Drug and passing from Honduras all three they pass the drug for our community. At one of the Best Trojan we have right now because we fighting in through for the goals to don't take community like a place to move the drug from our community. So that's a one of the. ESPECIA- fighting. We have right now and that's the reason that. Lemon. With the police Dusen the police to take our brothers, our leaders from our community and killed everybody in our community they agree. The one dues? Community. To moved drought hot to more drug, they nagy was the. Espace Bashur drug, and they join abby do that our community they train to a gotten us because we turned to stop Bassett Latian. That's a recently died in us, but the principle that drug dealer in Honduras is a familiar. Hernandez that's a precedent in her finally, I do sit in this state using the. From Guatemala Honduras to move the. We're speaking with gory of Florida's she's got funeral activists and she's also co founder of the. Community Services G. C. S in the Bronx New York this is Latino collective return about the gun struggle for social justice on Dudas. On WPF W. Eighty nine point three. FM Washington we'll take a quick break gray here back with more in a minute. Stay tuned. So. Good. ME. By looking for Beck says. Bad. saw. Okay. Out. Bond. report. An. Best. Palmer. That was ELVA. Carolyn you're listening to Latino collective yawn WPF W eighty, nine point three FM Washington reminding everyone that you check out this episode in our previous episodes on own website, which is Latino media collective dot com. He also follow us on twitter the name ask Ellen MC underscores show that is at LLC underscore show and of course, live on WPF Wfan that orgy. That's WPF W FM DOT ORG. Once again, this is Oscar Fernandes and were speaking about Black Lives Matter Indunas with your Florida's who's Gutty Funai activists from on us, and she's the CO founder of the. Community services DC s in the Bronx new. York she joins us today via skype from New York, and before we continue Grigori I wanNA point out that you know New York where you're at right now is home to the largest gutty Muna communities here in the United States and it's been a community that's been in New York for at least three or four decades now so. I just want to point that out because in lends itself to two things I wanna ask you one over the motivations for you to leave onto us to go to New York and to how connected is the Gutty Funaki community in New York to. Their counterparts back in on Dura today interacted A. For people don't do they still communicate communicate and work together in discontinued struggle or governor rights. In two, thousand and. In the to go a little bit more back because. After we started investigation was less what's really going on with our land. We went off an and we ask for often it'll help awesome offending our land and. Be with us that all balanced process we no, we have to work in. Two. So Those in two, thousand, dollars, nineteen, ninety, nine, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, four. So I nineteen ninety five. I'm be a bottle style board of director often. In nineteen, ninety, six at be president to often me. So I was the president and awfully before Media Miranda. Saw Out the person brings the first case from the different people to the. inter-american Commission in Washington. The case of. This was a member. This member of the Committee for defending the land of the course. So, we bring the case so. When we? Make a case against that Honduras. and. inter-american Court of Human Rights in Costa Rica. In May thirty nine. Thousand Two Thousand and five. Greta meeting on somebody to kill me. So I get a shack. So. That's the reason I came to. United States in two thousand. And two, thousand nine. Seven. Thousand and seven I came here and I seek wounded again asylum. So right now, I have like sixteen years leaving here in New York City helping our community. This was working without we? To make sure that people was accounts in the United States. Census Twenty. Twenty. So we were. Returned to make sure that people is not just. Living in United. But. We have to make sure that that goes people. He's counting in. United. States. So They came here. That was I was the one of the leader be persecuted for the enemy in Honduras aside came here but I'm going to work in our communities for every somebody from the community service. We found that is not going to services to help everybody calming founder. Of course in the south border with the humor regulations. You know there's a census taking place in the US right now in two thousand twenty and I can tell you that here in Washington. DC. Fact that once the numbers do get collected and once everyone does get counted we will notice a very large increase of Honduran migrants fleeing violence had been taking place in under since two thousand nine and that includes the gutty fullness. I'm pretty sure that their numbers have grown exponentially in these last eleven years unfortunately now we mentioned one Orlando and Undis- you'll illegitimate. President of on US right now and. I would like to point out also that you know as bad as his administration is he's not been the only illegitimate president during these eleven years. So there's also been the. Illegitimate governments of rovereto Mitchell letty and video logo, and like I said before at the beginning of show, racism plays a lot in the motivations of the Honduran government as far as tall stilts worst Gotti fornos. So we mentioned one Orlando Hernandez already you know, can you tell us about some of the actions taken place by Peter Mitchell mutuality or logo that should also be worth mentioning in pointing out to have been directed against Eddie Funez if you can. is how we can speak about that every team. Happy in a gaze that community from the year of the Tories and the Partido Nacional when they the person and. The president. Is formed that but a dealer national nine Honduras in the dodd that was thirty, nine, hundred, thirty, seven, that's. Twenty five was killed in some one is one of is another day from the community. When they say in that time, dowse be cost the politician movement but balanced laugh excitedly because of the point at the moment. Is Kills. Youth in that because that was sad jareth between thirty to thirty sevens that was. if Taipei she'd. Do the venom thirds committed this Dr so So. We can speak about the forest to now and we can mark. Has. My Ludo. Long. When Anandas al-daas people? In the P. of best people in the deal, the Honduras they the. Situation that leaders fullness situation game? Worth again. Horrible. Any gutty from the leaders working to save that community and to save our now. Sofer in. Extreme persecution when. They had the power they hold the power in Honduras and right now if. Several years for illegal precedent, our country, and they still trying to Be there. Because they have clear was going on while they. They had the planning to remove from our land. And to give why. Do. We have the break then ordinary through in Thornton tell. That's Chased the name more than six, six, six or seven time. Are Now is Produced. Plantation. Pre the way. Yeah. The Taylor saw. They exchange the name let Lisa themm criminal birthdays they doing to remove from. And I'm glad that you brought that up because the struggle for Gotti Funai Rights in begin in two thousand nine because a coup. This has been going on for decades for generations and it's IT regardless of whichever political party is in power it's not about any one political party is about institutional state. Sponsored racism and engulfs goes beyond political parties, it goes beyond whoever individual happens to be in power at the time, and this is an ongoing struggle that you know continues and will continue regardless of WHO's who's in power in on Dudas and I thank you for pointing that out because. These sorts of actions against the gutty fullness don't happen in a vacuum. There's a lot of history going back to almost a very beginning of. Honduran independence that you know has brought us to this issue that continues to be a problem for Gotti Funez. So since you bill since you live in in the US. I'm pretty sure you all these obviously seeing the black lives matter movement developed here in the US and I'm curious to know what is the position of of random regarding going development black lives matter movement not only here in the US but in other parts of, of Latin America because this is. Spread out to not just a US and not just us to various other countries with a sizeable Afro Latino community. The Umbrella black life modern is very clear. Often face that. Any gory for now be imple- any black people, wherever They leave. That's life. So that's like Mara and that's something we do in in Honduras felder the black lives matter black last model in Honduras black knife model in Thera- words. That side of an position about that, and we know right now the black life is in dangerous. In cold word, THE BLACK KNIFE IS Is. We saw the the photos from Africa that among the people they have do. They have to get out for our. Own contrary from home to go to. Outside the House the way they can save our life. We believe. Is a black like Marris, very important and everybody wherever they leave the have full. Embrace. The. Best position that simple deposition relation to say the black muzzle and we'll be a stand up and we speak out about that any goalie for Nash in dangerous position especially, our ship. Absolutely in. As, this black lives matter continues to develop now Nina US been line. America is sort of makes me a little upset at an an I don't know if you feel the same way as I do of the fact that you know Spanish speaking media here in the US would it be Telemundo? Zone. I would have to say have done a very poor job and giving the spotlight to for the community especially in the last eleven years I mean. We've mentioned medium Redonda several times already per voice should be heard a lot more often in the news and we should be much more aware of. The plight of the Gut Funaki in on Duris than we should. But you know Spanish speaking media doesn't reflect that and this is why English speaking media outlets like us are trying the best. We can to try to bring your voices out there but this is just my opinion I wanna get your opinion on. The failures I for lack of a better term failures of Spanish speaking media in the US for not giving more voice to food nut community in central. America. You're right and. When I watch the news every day and say, well, my dad, those people never say nothing. Wes going on a what's happening from doors with? People when you see them. The information you'll be her for three quarters Communica you become for. Mitzi call but never made said nothing about that. Happy to us. They make us feel. They make us feel like we're not. The because it We're not consign about that. So it's Also speaking with Clara. And we're trying to wash those people we to. Look. People to get. Information in her hands to say something about and they played they cannot see the play that in that hearing that only media can mention here in New York pulled on the is local local channel in Manhattan and we can say about something about that. They put. On that formation, our sides soup but. The media here in the United States if The media the people say that. L. Community what NSA nothing about ads that they're not concerned about. What's really. S. FAC is completely time for us. To know that yeah, this is one of my wishes right now as the black lives matter movement continues to develop that is not just about police brutality. Although of course, that is the central issue, but also to question institutions of power including places like Illinois and. To open their eyes were at very least reexamine. Why is it that they don't put more Gotti food voices you know and effort Latino voices on the airwaves especially when we're talking about serious issues like the Cullinan on Dudas and the virus is taking place against the owners in on us and also to mention that they're also gotti GONNA in Belize in in what the Mullahs and to a certain extent Nicaragua. Pretty much out the whole Atlantic coast of central. America. But much like Central America as a whole, it just gets ignored in in one form or another and it's it's nothing short of. Tragic. And Lazy on the part of journalism especially doing this. You know crucial period in Central American history you know there's one name that I forgot to mention, and this is also an example of disgruntled Gutty are facing in on Dudas is the case of Antonio denied this. So can you explain who went on Your Bernardus? Before, we finish with the media. In my opinion, the people fail they sell her in there if they felt. They, not really concerned about the weather in happen on the community they just. Speaking about win. The situation is very convenient. For Oligarchy. Representing the community interest. In my opinion. connecting by. Cutting. All the. They he'll. Take some information on endurance base convenient for their interest. I mean I was need to stay out about Antonio. and. Is there is. A Bam important person in the case of. The. Andhra. Daddy I. and. West, the one of the witness. The witness in the front of that HDD for. Dash. In the National Commission of Human Rights. And the National Court of Human Rights and Daniel Kim to what the Book. We put the cases and they went Costa Rica. We this to? Front of. Human. Right. Court. And Antonio. Tony what disappear for the beer for six date? Look on your daughter. How Fun Radio for the Community Looking? For. Thirty. Of six days. After the state. Buddy. They me straight him before kill them. and Antonio License. Responsibility because. We. Have the Medina County Larry's from birds. But that all Living in the Community and the through the cruise. Nobody, they supposed today in appear we get the resolution for the humor court nobody can leave a feature from through. The President and the committee. Thank. The president and the COMMUNICA DAB polarization put the salt the land of the close. The. Never can. Be Disappear. For. But they took him and two years when Donald, not. In about and Tony was took it from. The They, kill them and they. Found the body in real mean, what is real? Pretty your meal is the. Community Funder would that embraced people? From Honduras Pool in from the Lens To remove the. Community from there. When we gather solution from the cord And we get the meeting without. People. Here. They again real people they agreed to move from both the period. They say we recognized the land is not us. We. See whether state of Honduras. They. Begin. would be removed from there. What happened? In months ago. Grimmett for. A stand bland a school. Sandra hallows. Maybe mic. Medication place to the people of the medication than they won an open. School they went open center. They want. Some kind of France. To a real man to make sure those people have from there because. They don't have not idea in that market then I nothing to be. Make sure the dull. Interamerican course they think they have to go to give the phaser Hernandez. So that's a recent Antonio Day because of the on. Nothing. Nothing to compete to has to do. In? The Mitch Show they give the Community Harland back. It's nothing short of shocking the story of Antonio. Bernard And it just shows that the hundred pondering government is not just killing random getting they're trying to kill and assassinate the leadership, the intelligentsia of the community as a as a way to keep the community marginalize I'm not ready for now I'm the son of Salvadoran immigrants and I can tell you that a lot of what you just described sounds very similar to the. Military dictatorships of what the Mullahs No Salvador back in one, thousand, nine, hundred, Eighty S, and it's nothing sure shocking that this aspect of Honduran history not spoken a lot more often than it should not talking about the fullness we have about one minute left equity. I. So let me ask you this and you know what? We'll just end this last question in Spanish so. Finally what does affront ask from both the KUNAS living in the US and to all Hondurans in general who had been forcibly? What do you hope that they learn? You know or what he asked him to do while they're in the US. is to kill liberty sales as data spectacle. The apple year animals got focusing on us he. Mustn't. Poodle. On. Campus and You're only if. They can go that king is thousand meals like. Thousand boy that is that they made. Informacion. infamous, Aaron Bates. What? It. Not. going. I. Simple. Persecution the. Mid, Atlantic was travel by guest basis than I've been battling. She must. Remain. possumus. Never be back. She didn't. Except For Mandatory as in will. Also. Bells meals sparking women. It became elsie at all. No so throws. So it wouldn't then in this of. Mistletoe some mostly blue so. Locally, Sarah does bear. King. Free thing. Would be. Skulls you. Decide on. This. Bar in Lucescu moment barrier or lower on the if. Nicholas me according to according dishes. Came in spiral. Me Fa. Say. So. Up. On the idea. Of My. Music. Wondering. Episode. Mac. Issue Fun. You'll miss. Olsen left. So it does Kinsley. Novel King North. Carolina is. Never going to say. Look. Installed by that'll will not kidding me in. Persona admirals, somebody has. been found. Escape multi-million. Handle. Alexia your book so. Backwards from. Alaska, organism? Analysis when I get that. But I it'll tell that was to see him. They get sort of Obama's dosage, Nosotros. For, Mandalay. Gondola. got. On Activated We've been speaking with Gordon of Florida's. She's the former general coordinator of funny. The Black Fraternal Organization of Dudas and she's also the CO founder of the Gutty Funai. Community. Services. G.. C.. S in the Bronx New York so good Florida's thank you very much for being on the show with US blessing. Notice. Thank you for having me here today if my breasts were thank you for a chance. Thank you for an opportunity. To help us out of our. In Our community. Partner. Is that. Stop. Worrying. Michael When you say Agley. moondog percent of on per gauge is. What they can block them. OFF If they're. Committed, daily handle seaview in. The. Last on every financing some years. They have to grow Indiana. Really. That said that ZIP. For today's show, we want remind everyone the check out this code and our episodes on which is Latino collective dot com gosawx find us on twitter and at the name at LLC underscores show and of course, live on. WPF W FM that Archie and so on. Behalf of my co-producer Abby Roberts's Oscar Fernandes saying, thank you very much everyone for listening to show. That's it for today's show your. Shell. and. Lean

Honduras US president Honduran government Dudas Honduras twitter Washington Bronx New York Florida CO founder Gotti Funez DC Community Fund Anada San kidnapping America
245: Right-Wing Racism in Venezuela

Latino Rebels Radio

57:44 min | 1 year ago

245: Right-Wing Racism in Venezuela

"That farmers insurance we know roof can withstand a lot one exception being an airborne car seen it covered it quicker more we are above underwritten by farmer's truck fire insurance exchange center affiliates products not available in every state hey guys who let it go let it let here latino rebels radio it is sunday july seventh two thousand nineteen we took another week off will be back next week when you shows but don't worry are friends that you know media collective just a they gave us one of their shows from earlier this summer so here they are latino media collective on latino rebels radio or on we gotta we gotta make the all news all day i and i i a a so that there may be breathing breathing breathing meaning he told me interested in washington and all points be on this is oscar hernandez and you're listening to the latino media collective recorded that the studios of w p f w eighty nine point three fm washington district of columbia here on this friday june fourteen two thousand nineteen were also heard on the internet on own website which is latino meet a collective dot com you can also find us on twitter under the name at l m c underscore show in of course live on w p f w fm dot org ge once again this is oscar fernandez and today on the show we put the spotlight on venezuela and the importance of big knowledge ing the right wing racism that has played a role in anti government sentiment there are over one million people of african descent in venezuela in the country of roughly thirty one million people theatrical venezuelan community makes up a significant portion of the population and but you wouldn't know it from corporate media coverage of the political crisis in venezuela however for anyone who does this is a clear invisible racial divide between pro and anti government supporters supporters while corporate media uss hymns and hawes over whether the latest trump's statements are racist or not in venezuela there are no dog whistles no beating around the bush no ambiguity no second guessing required the right wing in venezuela have been very open about their racism referring to people as monkeys subhuman even using the n word other actions have included the straight up lynching burning and murder of black people in venezuela although there are obvious geopolitical motivations behind nc government hostilities in venezuela by no means should the importance of racism be overlooked in this debate it has already led to the death of a few afro venezuelan those so to discuss see issue of right wing racism in venezuela rejoin over the phone today by james early he's a former secretary for education in public services at these smithsonian institution and the director of the cultural heritage policy at the smithsonian folklife center and he's also a board member forty institute for policy studies he joins us over the phone today welcome to the show james early thank you very much obviously as i said before that there are very obvious geopolitical motivations nations behind right wing hostility towards venezuela where they were talking about the trump administration overtime or talking about right wing venezuelan those themselves when he obvious things of course is is the importance of oil in this geopolitical political tug of war and we've seen since the beginning of this year in particular but over the last twenty plus years in general however as i said again be issue of racism in this debate should not be understated at all whatsoever but i wanna get your opinion here about how do you measure the degree of importance racism plays andy venezuela's political crisis as we've seen it in the last few months for example here of racism as an issue of power at two levels a one is the level of the materials circumstances of life of who control the means of production and distribution dan and consumption patterns of that has always been racial live since the founding of all of the republic's in this hemisphere and certainly it has been the case a particularly whiff of venezuela at the second level that is the racial edition of how people are seen as a part of the human family and so that a b analogy so people calling people monkeys are less than human a it's a part part of the historical rationalization for the super economic exploitation and brutality in inhumanity to extract profits from these people and then just throw them away as those societies the ball and a throwaway scene and the reverse of incarceration of people of color in venezuela but also very characteristic across this hemisphere so in that context a racism is transversal that is racism is not just a single issue it runs horizontally conceptually through the entire society and that the indices the poverty disease a lack of access to education a lack of access to employment a lack of full participation in the political system on all of the issues that affect the destiny of the nations and the nations international relations are racial live and we couldn't see that in a very physical for teachers are not only of the right wing up which is the more vicious a part of this but in this society at large but it is the right wing in terms of their ideological outlook and how they see be adjudication of power relations to improve but not improve the circumstances of light that is a most urgent to look at and this president's economic and political crisis which is resetting venezuela i'm glad that you said it in the larger picture just now because it's not just something they were talking about thousands of miles away we've even seen it here in our home base of washington dc particularly where from people who were protecting the venezuelan embassy from these ever mentioned right wing venezuelans who been tried to take over the venice willing embassy here in the dc area i wanna know if you could point out some of the racism from right wing venezuelans against people were trying to protect the venezuelan embassy because this is something that is circulated among activists in dc circles and it's nothing short of shocking because as i said before there is no dog whistling there's no ambiguity some of the things have been caught on video or just straight up direct yes well that report i participated a whip the collective and speaking inside of the venezuelan embassy a when progressive here in the united states were protecting international protocols of nations in this case having been invited by a legitimate electric govern that's a no matter what one might think of that government is legitimate and an electric oh to protect that end the report said i received from people who were active everyday it is a blatant vulgar vile dangerous kind of racism a where people were called a racial epitaph of the niners were used the time people and of course there were all kinds of homophobic and sexist comments that were also made and what this reflects is i think of what i would call two dimensions and of their opposition to the boulevard revolution and to be a deed governance of those principles and policies of that revolution under nicolas maduro it represent that indie opposition to the boulevard revolution in its principles of engaging the most marginalized sectors of society and engaging them an improving the materials circumstances is they're alive and become a proactive participants in policymaking in their formation of policy there is one dimension of the opposition a that's a is relatively a non violent and how it exercise is a it's it's opposition to those democratic policies but the dominant aspect of the opposition is the one who has expressed shark bogart and life defining racism in killing a black people people who support the boulevard revolution in the upper class neighborhoods where they set up these quite mba's a wood burning tyres unworthy there is the infants very well documented that can be found online a bit dousing of an afro venezuelan who supported a b these these boulevard revolution burning him literally alive bringing him on eighty percent of his body and he eventually died with no remorse with the leadership 'em of vowing that which then intersects with the racism coming out of the united states government a the trump administration the state department and the sort of saw stick facto racial implications negative implications coming out of democratic party people who look at venezuela in their narrow ideological terms but not in the sociological terms of who makes up venezuela will benefit from the policies the boulevard revolution and who are suffering from this violent a right wing a who's again physical porches should be an indication that larger questions a should be re this goes back to nineteen ninety nine more or less which will go shop is the opposition openly a road on walls and set on a public media radio and television calling him a monkey referring to his afro descent background into the manner in which she spoke spanish which is an intersection of racism in class ism that is very obvious and this is what other right wing venezuelans are perpetuating and they are trying to overturn that not just nicolas maduro but eight accumulated set of principles and policies that have been to the benefit of the majority of the population which is largely misdeeds so spanish in an indigenous a historical then mixtures in contemporary expressions and the be outright after a descendant element and this is the context in which the news media and congressional of people who call themselves liberal offer aggressive are once again failing to look at the racial lies nature of power in terms of materials circumstances of life in venezuela across our hemisphere and in terms of the humanistic expression of how people express themselves and their religion in their language in there aesthetics and this is what the right wing of venezuelans are a really a target and this is precisely see why we're having this conversation today because you mentioned it in passing but i think it's worth mentioning right now anyone who listens to us google or look up the story of orlando forget a last name f i g u e r s this was an afro venezuela i know who was grabbed by a right wing mob back in two thousand seventeen seventeen he was being he was lynched and he was burned alive and he was screamed and yelled all sorts of racial as epitaph as he was burning alive and this was caught on video caught on video he eventually died of his injuries about one or two weeks later but again once again we cannot understate the importance of racism in this 'em venezuelan crisis because if we were if corporate media where a lot more on this in covering what is going on there then everyone should be mindful in aware of the case of orlando forget a correct that that is indeed absolutely incorrect and in many ways i'm less concerned about the right wing media a which i expect to a be proactive in these racist kinds of attacks but it is a so called liberal media and to some extent so call progressive media of the cnn and msnbc and reverend outland joy in a and those kinds of folks who are not addressing this issue because they are buying into the united states a government meal liberal ideological views taking over venezuelan oil and just assuming because someone is called a dictator a that that is the case of they are not looking at the racial live nature of that conflict are the conflict in brazil where fifty two percent of the population by be official senses are appro venezuelans and so a race contextualized is power relationships throughout the industry around in the world in general mike dewine looks at the history of colonialism and the see that other people who were subjugated to colonial dominance were significantly a generally people of color whether they were of indonesia and background are indian background certainly i'll be of the african a background an end of a v wade that indigenous people in this hemisphere had been street have been treated and so it is incumbent on us to really forced this question and bring to their attention particularly of the so called liberal and progressive media that they should address us but we should also be very very clear that there is not a simple dividing fighting align you're simple by mary of those who are racist and those who are not racist even in the context of the boulevard in revolution in which the great majority of afro venezuelan community organizations have supported the boulevard revolution since nineteen ninety nine right up through the maduro presidency they had to struggle to get the boulevard revolution to recognize their distinct historical colin cultural evolution a an end material circumstances in the context of the overall revolution there is a tendency to want a sub will make this simply class question in class questions always have sociology allergy fundamentally there is the gender question in class and then the case of the americas in venezuela is typical of this there is the racial life nature so that when you find marginalized women who are of indigenous and are next piece or are of african descent you find the most egregious circumstances and this is where the implication for what democracy must addressed in the sense of the demo those people being actively involved in the public space and the crash of their power their visions their perspective there aspiration of how it should be played out in policy and here in the united states in with regard to the media we have got of course the media till look at those sociological factors and how they play out on the questions of who has power and who does not have power and what should be u s policy a progressive policy with regard to this crisis in whose side of the u s a people in the usa government should be on that's not a simple equation up to support one candidate or another but it has to do with democratic principles and you cannot make democracy and self determined citizens an in there they are a lot of complexities including who is president are not president but it is the right of the venezuelan people an overwhelmingly afro venezuelans have voted for the boulevard principles as express and the google the presidency of over a shot at the end and the current president nicolas maduro going back to de 'em venezuelan embassy here in dc one of the antigovernment protesters there was caught hold on video saying to a reporter primitive or subhuman he was that she identified as as an economist working with v a the illegitimate juan guido 'em team shall we say is not a prison he's a team of of right wingers that were talking about here but you know what you just brought something that has never occurred to me until now now that you brought it up as you said before that child as he was you know there were racist comments made by the right against their will jarvis jack cheat on the recor in private corporate venezuela media of business business people saying such things and media people in venezuela saying racist things about which is one thing that you brought they had never occurred to me before is the manner in which he spoke the manner in which he spoke english 'cause when he was alive he wasn't his is spanish for those who may not speak spanish he was very informal in was it at prim and proper it certainly wasn't like in the same manner say for example up angel carmona there's something like that that it never occurred to me before until now but you know what you're right that is a very interesting point that you know it's one of those things it's definitely a class question i mean we we must remember that will go shop is out with a country boy a he came from in in syria and he want it to be a baseball player he joined the military as a way get to to get up to come up the ranks as do many marginalized people in society is taking on the states for example many poor whites poor blacks for brown people for asia pacific americans for native americans who don't have access to good education employment a they joined the military to be able to have a regular lies a light and to be able to a predictable life and to be able to plan and sustain their own individual development and their family development such was the case of oh gosh august i had the extraordinary opportunity in two thousand four with a trans africo forum which was in under the presidency of a trade union is african american trade unionists bill fletcher cheered by the board the board chaired by danny glover on in a number of sylvia hill from the from the b m anti apartheid movement in in in in washington and a number other board members to vote of venezuela answer meet with president chagas in that meeting she was very direct and very honest he said they made a mistake in nineteen ninety nine by not including be effort to send the social identity category as eight policy issue they had included indigenous people women senior citizens and he turned to his ministers instead this must be corrected and that was the point in which she said that although she was eight misty so that his grandmother was of african descent and within a few months after you in a i think it may have been national public radio are i'm sorry i think it may have been democracy now in an interview he said you see these big lips you see this curly hair that's mother africa so he had on the testimony a revelation he was self critical or not having seen as many people of african descent sent what's it called themselves molasses malachi goes up school is a bottom goes on more rain those anything other than black because of the historical and contemporary denigration of those groups in their material lies and and the vulgar ways in any human ways if they are treated in the way that they're the victims of violence by police and end of all of the other devastating dimensions of life and so that he had that revelation which he then moved beyond his own individual expression to put international policy so this shop it to tap a number of afro venezuelans to become a ambassadors and he opens new embassies across africa even invited danny glover and i traveled to africa with them and unfortunately that never came to pass but he saw than the larger context of racism and he began to put that forward as a major policy issue now that then a rate down to the presidency of nicolas maduro who even in the midst of this economic sanctions warfare that is slowly they tried to strangle venezuela at the death enter format a internal civil war where threats of invasion just last year president nicolas maduro convened continental wide including representatives senators from africa meeting to talk about repairing tori justice nothing now the presidential candidates in united states on democratic party sided talking about an ad on the nineteenth of of this month a the united states congress congresswoman sheila jacksonlee will be taking up in the context then say well nicolas maduro did that a year ago and then a few months there after he convened in international group of lawyers the talk about how then would this reparation issue being grounded ashley in legal issues so that a some material developments that would help to improve the lies of the victims of slavery this these larger issues a that the news media is not covering these of a larger complexity and trying to work through what is a very ugly racial lies class struggle against neoliberalism on the side of the boulevard revolution in all of the negative a social and educational and health indices that has that has produced a over the last twenty twentyfive years and a new set of transform the policies that engage everyday citizens in were racist seen again as a that vercel architectural are horizontal factor not just as a single factor unto itself yeah you know what i need to addressed is whenever we do a show in venezuela that by no means are we asking people to like the maduro government per say but we are asking people to respect venezuelan democracy you know they they they are you know legitimate criticisms that people can make about the maduro government in some of the decisions they made made in some of the actions they've taken but the problem with this case with venezuela is it thoughtful 'em intelligent critical thinkers such as you and i are not the ones leading the charge against the government it's extreme right and they don't particularly care about any of these issues we're addressing it all in this conversation 'em precisely there there are no god walking this earth there know a few words of governance a without era without failure without contradictions and those who are interested in the development of new an act of more just society that includes all people particularly the most marginalized should keep a critical eye and be engaged in making those kinds of evaluations but we have to recognize and be honest that these transform transform into attempts as is the case of the boulevard in revolution are now under the stewart elective stewardship of nicolas maduro is taking place against major global reactionary trend in which racism has been an circle to the exploitation and the murder that until the end literal rape and pillage 'em of the entire hemisphere are hemisphere in which colonialism is always racial live with the exploitation of indigenous communities and exploitation of enslaved africans an rationalized and the most profound perverse way using the bible and lhasa fee and really defining people as subhuman the end in there they are a lot of complexity is in contradiction but one has to see which side in terms of the direction of transformation summation of history or you're moving in that context yes criticisms are legitimate but not to get confused that somehow it is the west and the united states in particular who has any real interest in the survival of these people even with joe biden a for example who is said to be leading in the polls in the primaries on a democratic presidential side attack petro curried that what's his assignment under the obama administration and what what's petro kuri petro kobe was eight policy of solidarity international policy coming out of the boulevard revolution led by a shot this continuous by nicolas maduro to work with carribean be in countries who had critical needs an energy and to give them discount prices and to invest 'em where where a refinery in their countries so that they would be a not just receiver's but but but partners in this process and it was joe biden who was assigned to move them away from that now that's highly racial lines because when you look at six year of being the dominant civil society in governance and the carribean nations are descendants so race again plays a factor that we we should be aware of at least ask ourselves what is going on here in how toby scituate i cells in these complexities and politics there's always big of an individual figures but what is the principles that they voted in the majority of venezuelans over six million of them voted in nicolas maduro and the right wing opposition in the lesser vulgar opposition refused fused to participate in that process and now they want to turn around and say oh but this puppet up a that mike pence and you can't you can't trust these people and i'm really speaking not to the people on their ideological last hard not to the people on the right in responding to you is if the people in the middle who are earnestly trying to figure out what is going on open your eyes and look at it and make those but those questions for it and look at the racial alive nature of where speaking with james early he's the former secretary of education in public services at the smithsonian institution andy director of the cultural heritage policy at the smithsonian folklife center as well those big a board member for institute's proposed these studies were gonna take a quick break right here this is the latino meet a collective back with more in a minute stay tuned well don don don your body yeah but you know what i'm saying man i don't i don't i don't want them to know what your they're throwing the ball to be your best my mother i mean do you think we got another body now why not i don't bought the book by don't he'd be full they don't they don't know hey man i got my and that was my judgment but i'm the level and you're listening to latino meet a collective you're on w vfw eighty nine point three fm washington reminding everyone did you could check out this episode in are previous episodes on their own website which is latino media collective dot com you also follow us on twitter at a name at l m c underscore show and of course live on w p f w fm dot org that's w p f w fm dot org once again this is oscar fernandez and were speaking about venezuela's right wing racism we have james early tuesday former secretary of education in public services at de smithsonian institution and the director of these cultural heritage policy at the smithsonian folklife center as well as being a board member for the institute for policy studies so james seems last may the latino meta collected the did a show on canada's role in the venezuelan crisis in as someone who who deals with the with the show's website we got a lot of negative messages from from people who claim to be venezuelans who sort of i guess where like a better term which were trolling me in trolling for me to get a response by you know mentioning the fact that i'm salvadoran and be idea was that as a salvadoran i'm not my my opinions and my my view of of what's going on is is not worthy it's not you know you're not you've never been to venezuela is e is ee accusations made against against me and i even had one comment sent me which i deleted which went to the extent of saying something like you dirty gang banger you don't belong on the radio and then go back to cleaning you know cleaning houses is this something like that something to that extent and so this may be i may be answering my own question by presenting you this but those the right wing racism in venezuela also extend to other people including on venezuelan those 'cause i think it was very clear we saw that in dc at the venezuelan embassy is well all must've most certainly what we're seeing as eight eight particularities of the racism in venezuela having to do with the ideological trickled unpolitical policies a director directed a to wards collaboration with the most marches historically and temporarily marginalized is also expressed in any variety of ways throughout this hemisphere including united states and the united states is very important in this 'em because it is still the largest economic power the largest military might a the most pervasive intervention this country on the face of the planet and martin luther king a told us about militarism an an and racism a n materialism and militarism in racism are tied together for the purpose of exploiting other countries in getting the benefit of that and so that donald trump trump now as a contemporary expression of that has made it very clear that if you are from the southern part of the united states you are a person of color i mean the racism is very late the conciliation of that racism throughout the republican party eighty in an elected republican governors and the light is a very consistently clear and not just be epitaph but also a the the discriminatory up policies it's very clear with regard to puerto rico a another a latin american accuse me of being colony a spanish speakers an end so yes what what you are hearing in venezuela has a cold heart throughout throughout the hemisphere bolsonaro so narrow from brazil is the most recent openly vials of vulgar expression of that a about a after a brand the afro brazilian through represent again a fifty two percent of their official census it's homophobic a blatant helmet homophobic and sexist views donald trump you very close to donald trump and so coming out of canada you see the same thing it may come out a bit more subtly not as violent as over but the end product of the is the same people who will suffer and who are suffering from these policies the united states and leak of of of argentina andy a leap of of a of brazil then chalet an elite a pet who who are all behind the attack on venezuela you will find the same relationship with their own afro descendants populations and because of racism is is a is a global a rationalization for dehumanization exploitation and it comes out in many many different ways including a number of africa descendants who a out of ignorance a who mechanically followed this abstract stuff about democracy but some who feel the weight of this dehumanization and don't want to identify themselves as apple descendants notwithstanding then even the fact that all of the characteristics the negative characteristics accumulated throughout history of the social population in relationship the dominant population characterize in their live in terms of health issues of of diabetes and and heart problems and what they've been eating for centuries they'd been forced out to eat a for centuries and then the psychological instability that comes from not wanting to identify a whip this history in the positive it's a struggle of people who were living your communities and look a who had taken on this this depression so i'm not surprised at this is the case a with canada even with canada is relatively the canadian government relatively let's see ugly good relationship historically with the cuban revolution by way of comparison to the united states a the same affect the people who will be hit most will be poor white cuban cuban of color a notwithstanding the games the cuban revolution has made in healthcare and education a an international supportive doctors and so forth and so on a the scourge of racism is still there admitted to buy the cubans in the context of the park but they've made so this something that people who are uncertain who are scratching their heads who are unclear who are uninformed about latin america need to consider in terms of what government policies and how we should react to what the united states government is doing and as they are now you know gyro bolsonaro is a perfect example of concluding that somebody is races based on the company they keep because bolsonaro has been very supportive of these anti government ferment people like wonder why though in leopoldo lopez in particular and they're much like where we've seen venezuela there is no ambiguity or dog whistles valuable scenario he is openly fascist openly sexist openly racist openly fill in the box for lack of a better term so in i have to say that there are doing the past six months since this current incarnation of this crisis has developed one thing that has really you know upsetting me is vm the voices that are that are being allowed to speak in corporate media you know in support these anti government people like why do and leopold lopez i mean anyone who's listening to us if you think there's a racial divide look up the names lynton tori who's v a the wife of liberal lopez maria corrina machado 'em pedo carmona a witness a new man join a house men all these you know these are all you know people who have held held on for lack of better term to their euro centric ruge shall we say and otherwise you know if you're in a spectrum yet we have seen very very few if any afro venezuelan of voices that have spoken out in in defense of the government in the last few months also so i bring this up because what do you what do i brought up this named john houseman 'cause new york times gave this person some a lot of op ed time to give the give out in antigovernment venezuela 'em rats on on their outlook what do you think of this aspect or this divided i just mentioned well the the the the new york times is consistently a reactionary a and consistently in support of u imperial design a narrow a corporate interests a no matter of what the price is in the social welfare of people in in other countries in their end very racial live this comedian a john houseman of venice waylon when you go online and you look at her videos are rates never enters into her her equation a she just soda automatically very blindly a says that this is about the dictatorship nicolas maduro nss for her either is simple of that because of the of the of the colorblind socialization that is taking place throughout latin america as the dominant narrative including in venezuela are remembering that 'em up until recent years the last twenty years is so of brazil was presented as they racial paradise and it has some of the grave this class divide in the world and some of the most most agree just a racist policies and and you go to the prisons and you see the privacy or are you see the prostitution of how people forced from very early age and so these these exploitive you cannot kinds of relationships and you see it in the blind of even african american a liberal and progressive politicians visa visa palestinians a visa visa designers apartheid government of israel not to be confused with the progressive liberal and certain religious sectors among the jury in in israel 'em we've gotta put a lot of pressure on the media because the media turns tends to be the socializing factor be educational factor including social media and the so called liberals and progressives we cannot allow them not to look at the empirical data not to look at the actual sociology just there's also been somewhat of a problem in the progressive left communities who were sort of late coming to the issue of race because we get so tied in the abstract ideology rather than how does that ideology reflects the actual demographics in a nation proactive sitting in the nation and the narratives of the citizens of why they are proactive around common principles despite the fact that they may come from diverse identity a we have really got to put that kind of pressure on mainstream a so called liberal media and we have to keep up with a so called progressive media to make sure that they look a as the fundamental issues of race we see it being played out in the usa with regard to bernie sanders a democratic socialist principles and platforms in my view are way ahead of others and and just disposition to struggle with power but it's not about the individual it's about how what kind of analysis they make an end end although some growth has been made the faltering on the relationship between economics an enraged a is an example edit it gets reflective throughout this hemisphere but it is the the right wing who is in collusion what the dominant element of that state on these racial policy and that also includes some latinos like marco rubio a from florida a who is a attack who is on the tackle is organizing this an end he's they are well aware of what the sociology is but they're willing to sacrifice indigenous people an afro descendants of ford this great a idiological moved to control the resources of this in this case venice rather they've been very blatant that they wanna control the oil they want you as corporations involved involved in oil and up the puppet why though is right there saying yes this is the way that it should be so he's really not talking about the majority of the marginalized citizens who have voted for the the boulevard revolution and in this case the maduro government and in that case the racism is very obvious yeah you know marco rubio in my opinion he is full hints about teesta reincarnated in regards to american politics and wherever it goes to one why though i mentioned earlier pulled a lopez and he doesn't get talked about a lot even he's very influential in this anti government hostilities which again we should start out stress out as led to the to the death of a few venezuela leno's in general and african is allows in particular i think for in american audience the best way to to explain who leopoldo lopez is he is sort of the equivalent of the other huddle sosa character in scarface right one why don't maybe tony montana but the real over is leopoldo lopez who is playing the sofa character in this in this movie come to life so you know we have about five minutes left so i'm gonna end this by asking you to to important questions here to finish up one you know from ecuador to why and from jamaica to barbados three boys made the effort here on this show did try to create more black latino unity with regards to the struggle for social justice and understanding ones history street in once history of social justice in order to have a greater frame of reference and so you know should after african americans here in u s and should be more should they be more mindful or more you know vigilant vigilant as to what's going on in venezuela regards to their afro latino counterparts in venezuela in finally as well what do you hope people learn when taking stock of the racial divide in venezuela well there no question but that a appro americans in the united states should be particularly attuned to the racial lies nature of of what is going on across latin america and the progressive democratic implications for policies that opposed neo liberalism in which a these african descendants and indigenous people again women and children in that context suffered the most by any whether it's the world bank a reports are they in turn american foundation reports the empirical data is there but underneath that is the question of the test case of democracy a in all right hemisphere and the case of democracy that is the full participation of all of the citizens bringing their views and aspirations in the mix of other citizens who bring their views and aspirations into the public space and trying to decide on the social welfare that's a common welfare is highly racial lies it has been since the beginning of colonization a in this hemisphere end the development of the republic's who fought against the so called yoyos against colonization and so that here in the united states america black people have been a that that crucible that test case in more all sideways in any community notwithstanding the devastation genocidal devastation that went on against native peoples the role of african descendants in the context of development avi economy an it'd be the development of the of the concept of racism in the practice subway system still it it really is reflective on black people in this country and it's reflective in the same way across the hemisphere there in are responsibility of visa v not only black elected liberal and progressive leaders but all progressive at local state and then the congressional at the congressional in presidential level should be to bring them to an understanding of this and hold them accountable for justice a on on on these issues otherwise they become participants in their own demise that i could give some other examples we just don't have time but this is not simple a white non white issue here although that is a major characteristic of it we must also whole whole these a policy officials accountable for that a barack obama did not speak out about the situation a black people in columbia which is where the most egregious a day today killing going on and atmosphere with regard to black people he did not take the leader around haiti a again where the race is sure of is is is is historically tied to that are they are around 'em 'em brazil a when he took a forward step in negotiating a new relations a wizard while castro in cuba she left how than i am went directly to argentina to hook up with the right wing a mockery government and you did not ask the question of what is the situation of of of the afro arjun pinions there so a lot of people are complicit in this is not a simple black white matter but it is they characteristic one in which racism against indigenous people and against african descendants are essential foundational factors of the way the same this year payments of being out to these new republics and the way that its policies are carried out and the consequences who are the people who suffer the most on these consequences we've been speaking with james early he's the former secretary of education in public services at the smithsonian institution andy director cultural heritage policy at the smithsonian folk life center and he's also a board member forty institute for policy studies so james early it's been a pleasure and honor and hopefully we could spark you know the greater flame to this debate still again james thank you very much for being on the show listeners i wanna thank you and just say just listening audience that forward and support this public democratic progressive for called wp fw you and your money it's very important for the forum that they offer a lot of information for a debate in finding a some compromise of how we step forward together on justice issues thank you absolutely thank you once again so with that said that is it for today show we wanna remind everyone did you check out this episode in previous episodes on own website which is latino meta collective dot com you could follow us on twitter and the name at an emcee underscore show and of course live on w p f w fm that orgy so we have michael producer abby roberts is oscar front end is saying thank you very much everyone for listening to the show that's it for today show ideals those rambles show and the i i no i news joining the old the one bank usa maybe i mean a

fifty two percent twenty twentyfive years eighty percent five minutes twenty years six months two weeks six year
A Genocide of Black Brazilians

Latino Rebels Radio

59:40 min | 10 months ago

A Genocide of Black Brazilians

"Hey to lyrical Luella Latino rebels radio. It is Sunday, June Twenty Eighth Twenty Twenty And you're listening to us on audio, boom, apple, podcasts, pitcher, spotify, or wherever you get your podcast, so we decided to take a couple of weeks off, and if you go to Latino Rosa Com, here are our summer hours, so our friends at the Latino media collective work so kind to give us two of their shows. And they're going to be guest hosting the next two Sundays. But before we go and introduce. The Latino media. Let's listen to a message from our sponsor for this week. So you have enough to think about right now all Battino rebels regular listeners. Only to add your sexual and reproductive healthcare list. So planned parenthood is here with you. You can get birth control, STI, testing and treatment and emergency contraception the planned parenthood telehealth appointed. Save a trip these your mind, reach an expert by phone video. Get the care you need from the experts you trust is it planned parenthood dot org slash telehealth to learn about the telehealth services in area. The website once again is planned. Parenthood dot org slash telehealth. Now the Latino media collective on eighteen rebels radio. South. Feet. Old. Each. To. Greetings MBM news are thought Ella, Hindu scoot John Doe in Washington and all points beyond you're listening to the Latino media collective, and this is Abigail Roberts. We're recording here at the studios of WPF W. Eighty nine point three FM in Washington DC and it is Friday June twenty-sixth twenty twenty. We are also heard on the Internet on our own website, which is Latino media collective dot com. You can find us on twitter at at L. M.. C. Underscores show, and of course live at WPF W FM DOT ORG and eighty nine point three FM. Usually I am behind the scenes as your engineer and today I'm filling in for your host Oscar Fernandez who is temporarily away from the show after his father's tragic and untimely passing due to Covid nineteen. Oscar will be back soon and in the meantime, Oscar, our hearts are in mourning with you during this terrible time. Today on the show, we put a spotlight on the movement against anti black violence in Brazil. In a country where the president is an open fascist and the police murder nearly seven times more people per capita than the United States to say that police murders of black people is a pandemic is almost an understatement. To shed some more light on this issue is curate Yana. Furlan a freelance journalist based in Brazil who has compiled a very informative newsletter called does Brazil have a black lives matter movement, English, language resources to help you understand Brazil's movement against black genocide. Thank you for being with US Today Carolina. Thanks so much. Very excited to kind of break down. What's going on in Brazil? Because everybody needs to know right now. So! I know. We're GONNA talk about police violence over the next forty five minutes, but before kind of delve into specifics I like to get everybody on the same page. Brazil in breakdown, some basic facts history that you have to know to understand. What we're GonNA talk about today. So I, some promos Brazil a country of two hundred million people in which fifty five percent identify as black or Brown, which corresponds to a lighter skinned. Race Person. and I know you're wondering why. How is it possible that Brazil can be fifty? Five percent black, well Brazil was actually the largest importer of enslaved Africans over the course of more than three hundred years. More than four million enslaved Africans from West Central, Africa arrived on its shores, and it was also the last country in the West who abolish slavery. It did so in eighteen eighty eight. And one in abolish slavery, and subsequently became a republic. There was no government to attempt to actually include blacks in society whether it be through education through housing through Employment Black Brazilians were simply left to fend for themselves. And around this time this is when we see for Bellas sprout around major cities for villas. Swab communities. That are created by people who are building their own houses and on communities without government support. and. A lot of the stuff that. I'm going to talk about as it relates to police. Violence in Brazil can be tied to those facts that I just listed about Brazil. So can you tell us a little about the state of police violence in Brazil? Can you characterize for our audience? While I'll I'll try to be brief, but there's a lot to say about it so. Police violence police harassment isn't to Brazil. It's brutal goes unpunished. It's getting worse and worse, and it's inherently anti-black. The Pool. People who suffer from police violence are almost always. Black Impor-. Black impoverished. Let me just give you some basic numbers and stats because I think it's best to start there, and then we can go from there. So in the first five months of twenty twenty realization Eto has already broken the record for murders by police within a five month period they've been seven hundred and forty four murders, and this is the most in twenty two years. Now Mind you. This is happening during a pen Dimic. Last year. There were almost six thousand murders compete committed by police throughout the entire country. in two thousand fifteen, there were three thousand and three hundred forty five, so obviously the shows that police violence is increasing. And at least eighty percent of these people are black. So for Brazilians and especially Brazilians. Who are activists? Many people call this genocide against black people, because so many people are dying every gear. that. Just to. To emphasize how horrible it is. They people call genocide. There are two things that I wanted to talk about that kind of really get to the heart of this violence. Since Brazil is A. Very mixed country, mixed race country, the lines between black and white are often very fuzzy like. Sometimes, you just don't know sometimes. It's possible that a person could be black in one part of the country and white in another part of their country, but in Brazil. There's common saying that the police always knows who is black. Mainly because the police targets black people, and in the second, saying that is, that is almost always repeated by government officials police, and even you know regular people in the street is. Monje, it'll mortal Ed Bongino bone that means a dead bug is a good book. So, we combine these two. Sayings and thoughts that means that black people in Brazil are suffering. At the hands of police. Police, violence. One thing that I wanted to kind of get at. I wanted to kind of describe like how police violence take place. The police violence almost always. Takes place infidel communities. which are the communities that have been in Brazil since the end of slavery? And impoverished suburban communities that people often referred to as the periphery in these communities are almost always majority black. And this is how the scene usually plays out. Obviously, you know it can vary, but usually what happens is. Brazil's police, which is actually referred to as military police will enter the community as if they're actually going into a war, so there have huge guns though have huge trucks that are bulletproof. In these cuny communities on operations. To clump. Operations targeting drug traffickers. The issue with this, is that usually every black man that they see enough Avello or suburban community is considered a drug trafficker trafficker. Regardless of if that person is actually involved in not so black men will die. During, an operation regardless of their involvement, and then when you have these shootouts, woman children. Residents will die from stray bullets. And police are only brought to court in the old, the most egregious offensive that we will call massacres and when there's proof, but in general they they enjoy impunity. And finally. I don't want to know that the stats do focus on you know young black men, being the target of violence like a young black men between the ages of fifteen and twenty nine is mainly the target. I. Don't think we can forget that. When violence like this happens in communities, mothers are affected. Wives are affected. Girlfriends are affected. The kids of these people are affected, so it really is a violence that. Affects the whole entire community. Can you talk about the recent murder of fourteen year old Drought Pedro and have recent protests been set up by this. How does it fit into the larger movement against police brutality toward black people in Brazil? So. John Petro Fourteen John Federal. And his murder is actually very typical. A police violence in Brazil and let me explain what happened to him. John batchelor lived in Fabella community that is pretty close to rotation, so it's actually a like a satellite impoverished at Lake City outside of Rio de Janeiro Gonzalo. And on the day of May Eighteenth, he decided to go hang out with in his house and play with his cousins. Well, just so happened that the federal police home had decided to launch an operation in its community. And when these police entered his community, they fired seventy two shots into his house. One of those shots hit John Pedro in his abdomen. And John Patrick was taken away in a fire department airplane supposedly to a hospital. Now the reason why? This is actually very typical. You know like I said before police invading communities shooting. Without any regard to you know who they are shooting, but what may jump hedgerows case very atypical is a fact that on that same day John Petro's cousin. I think I think his name is Blah's jump. Cousin went to twitter. And said. You basically wrote a tweet saying my cousin is missing. Our family cannot find her cousin. He was taken away after there was a shooting in the community, and we have called every single hospital and cannot locate him. In this tweet. His cousin tagged major publications, and once people kind of got wind of this tweet. Black twitter, Brazil, which is equivalent to black twitter, and in the US. You know like a community of of influential Black Brazilians. Who? Make, things go viral black twitter! Brazil re tweeted in sent it out to everybody and eventually this tweet went viral. It was tweet tweet at sixty five thousand times like two hundred thousand times. Every single person who? Has who was an activist who had interest in? Finding John Pedro. Twitch retweeted or even shared it on their facebook, I. I actually had you know having covered this. This police violence against. Black Brazilians for the last five years. I never seen something gold viral like this and I thought that this case. Jump Hendricks case was very unique because I think we saw. This is the first case where we saw. Brazilian black, meteoric, Brazilian black twitter, really taking charge of the story before the media, the the general media got to it so once. What happened was the next day obviously. John Patrick was eventually found, but he was found. In a morgue, but by the time he was found in a more by the time his story was being told by. Kind of Your mass media, everybody knew who John Patrick was, and people wanted to know. How did this happen? Why House a possible bet! A fourteen year old boy is being killed during in the middle of a pandemic at his house and so. As, you can imagine The. Activists who are typically fighting this fight against spot genocide. They got on top of. The Padilla activists who. Are always supporting people, supporting mothers and going to. Launching campaigns, against splash genocide. Really got on top of it, but. They didn't necessarily call a physical protests in the beginning. what they ended up doing was. There's a organization like a black. Organization called the Coalition for. Coalition, of rights. They organize a five hour digital campaign to protest against. The murder of Jon Pedro and this was actually organized. I think it was actually might have been organized either the day same day. That George Floyd was killed or the day after, so it'd been something that they've been preparing for like a week or two and then obviously. George Floyd was killed in being uprisings erupted in the United States, and I think even though the these activists. We're doing exactly what they should have done. I think what happened was seeing. The protests in the US actually pushed these activists to do a an in person protest. Even though Brazil was is in the middle of one of the worst pandemics in the world like Brazil is literally at the peak of its. Covert nineteen in. An infections, but they felt they felt that they needed to go to the street so. In the last for the last four weeks we have seen. anti-racism protests that have actually been connected to a pro democracy protests that I can give a little bit more information about later on. So here in the US. Against Anti Black violence and police brutality is largely referred to as the black lives matter movement. How do you refer to the Movement Against Anti Black Racism and violence in Brazil, and why? What's the? What are the origins of it? That's so. Let's a really great question so. In recent weeks. Brazilians. Protesting against police violence. anti-black violins have actually been marching under what they say. vitas negative important that banner. The black lives matter banner, but this actually is not the traditional name of movement traditionally. One of the main platforms of the black woman, and when I say black movement this is A. Very loose term that. Describes people who fight for the rights of black people in Brazil. This black movement, which technically starting in one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety eight. They've always had one of their platforms has always been. A fight against the genocide of black people, or what in Portuguese would be call alluded. Contra Genus Siege Your. Grow. So being that this is always one of their platforms I mean whenever you go to. A black movement March. MAYBE THERE MIGHT BE A. In November is considered black conscious. In usually cities across the country always have marches. You always see people carrying banners that say. Luta genesee Joe over Negro and this is always actually. There's also more Favila base movements that aren't necessarily. What we call black. Since Vela's are all blacks are majority black? They obviously include blacks. Even the people who are fighting against police violence in the Vela's. They've always referred to this as genesee Joel contract pumpernickel. Formula does which being people who live infidelity. So. This movement has been kind of constant for at least the last. The last more than forty years I can't say that I've that. There's ever been as many as fifty thousand people in the streets when it comes to protest. Under this. Woman against this this fight against the Black Jennifer genocide of people in Brazil, but it's something that is always on the top of people's minds who are concentrated in In improving the lives of black people in Brazil because. This genocide also has a has literal meaning, but also has a loose meeting. Unlike the US, which had in you know in which black people were segregated. From White People Brazil's form of racism has always been more focused on a racing the presence of black people through its history, its culture and physical presence and police violence in example is an example of the physical genocide against black people. What are some of the institutional measures and policies that have led to the whitening of Brazil and that have been concurrent with this police violence? When Brazil into slavery in eighteen, eighty eight. And implemented its first republic the next year, which of course run by elite white men? Leaders of the country were obsessed into making Brazil into a civilized country. And for them, civilized country did not have significant black populations. At this point Brazil could probably have been about sixty to seventy percent black, and so one of the first policies that implement it. Was it actually started? The country started paying for White. Paeans to immigrate. To Brazil and they even gave them bland. These immigrants were the ones who actually received the jobs that Black Brazilians. Probably should've should've been able to feel after. The end of slavery, so these White Brazilians. Were able to get a head start on life. Addition we. Brazil has always been a miscegenation country mainly because when the Portuguese. Invaded Brazil. The Portuguese came alone. They did not bring their wives and so. You had you had this atmosphere? Where Portuguese people were were mixing with the indigenous people as well as? Raping Gum their slaves. And what ended up happening is that? Over the the past hundred years. Brazil print presented itself as a white country. So. If you can imagine is a black person growing up in Brazil even in the. Nineteen fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties nineties. It was extremely rare to see black people in Media A to see black people in positions of power whether be in the government or in. In high positions at companies. You would only see black people in low level positions domestic servants. Garbage workers, and in talking to I've been living in Brazil for five five years and talking to. My friends, and just like talking about how they grew up one thing I've found is that if you don't see positive images of yourself, it's very difficult to. Want to. Continue creating even creating black families so. A lot of times. Black people in Brazil Will actually seek out to kind of whiting better. What they call is author. Arthur Melia better the family through actually generational whitening process. One of the most famous paintings from Brazil agnes painting actually from like the Early Twentieth Century in Brazil. It's called Hums Redemption. In this fam- in this painting, it shows a black grandmother with her mixed race daughter, who is married to a assumingly married to a Portuguese man and their baby, who looks obviously white in the grandmother is actually has her hands raise. And it looks like she's kind of like praising God because. The family has eventually whitened over the course of three generations This is all all changing definitely mainly, because with with the Internet and New Media Black Brazilians can seek out information about about themselves in congregate additional spaces that they weren't able to do before, but I would say that. Brazil's still has a problem with Giving ability to black people in in a positive in thoughtful way. So earlier. You mentioned the Black Coalition for Rights. Can you tell our audience a little bit more about what the Black Coalition for writes is? How did this coalition come about? And why and what are they aims? so. There have been several. Major events that have happened in what we call Brazil's black movement. One of them being the creation of the MOVIMENTO negative onofre Gatto in one, thousand, nine, hundred eight. Many people today think the creation of the. Black, coalition for Rights which was created. Maybe the idea came about. Early last year. Is a major moment in black history for Brazil because? What happened, was it it took. It's basically Khloe coalition of some of the most influential black organizations I I looked on the website today, and now there's actually one hundred seventeen organisations in this coalition very diverse in terms of. What these organizations do where they are. Women organisations. LGBT organizations cultural organizations. What the the black hole for rice does! Is it actually took? This were black movement and made it very literal. Literal enough so that people when? When there are issues effecting while there's always issues affecting the black community in Brazil, but now these groups, these one hundred seventeen organizations who make up this coalition can react. As a as a unit in a unified manner, they can go to the government in a unified manner. They can put on. Conferences last year they actually put on their first conference where they also invited international members and they can. pull their money to actually. Fight against something like the genocide of black people in Brazil so. Just in just even within a year I'm very impressed by how. Influential this group and it and it's not even a group where you can even say okay I know that person is leading a group. It really is a coalition. Last year during the first year of Gerbil snarls administration, one of their main goals was. was basically fighting against The police violence that was really increasing in Brazil and. There were even laws that would have potentially been passed. That would have given police, even more freedom to kill, and so this was very consistent in in an. Going straight to the government to fight against that in. Sitting out information, so I'm extremely impressed and like I, said before this group was the one that organized the digital protests that happen about week and a half after the murder of Jon Pedro. So. It's it's. It's a group that people need to know about. If there, there's one group just go to their website coalition. Neg Today Tos and click on all the groups that involve that are involved with this group and you will just learn about. Activism Black Activism and Brazil. You are tuned into the Latino media collective on W. W eighty nine point three FM in Washington and we're speaking with curate Yana Free Lynch. She is a freelance journalist based in Brazil She's compiled a very informative newsletter called. Does Brazil have a black lives matter movement, English language resources to help you understand Brazil's movement against black genocide. We are going to take a quick music. Break right here. We will be back with more in a minute. Stay tuned. In God. Here picketing. Location appears. To not. Oh! His? Walk. Coastal. Pop. See. What's. Off. and. and. took. took. Note and. and. Ah. Muscle move my job. Abud Meals things she my. MIND BE More. In News content mean. More to mail him SAsia say upper. GonNa keys so consumed in batch. Thirteen mayes does no. Canes. You are tuned into WPF w eighty nine point three FM, in Washington and this is the Latino media collective. I, am your host Abigail. Guilty Roberts and today on the show. We are putting the spotlight on anti black violence in Brazil in a country where the president is an open fascist and the police murder nearly seven times more people per capita than in the united. States to say. Say That police. Murders of black people is a pandemic is almost an understatement so to have help us shed some light on this topic today we are speaking with Cure Tana Free Lynn. Curate Tiana is a freelance journalist based in Brazil and she has compiled a very informative newsletter called does Brazil have a black lives matter movement? Thank you again for being with us today. Care Tijuana. Welcome. So in the first half of the hour, we kinda characterized the the situation of the Black Jim anti-black genocide in Brazil. Can you tell us a little bit about the hat? How loose say mortem movement? Sure. So he has who said mortal is which actually in English that means react, or will you die or you will die This is considered to be most radical black groups in Brazil and it's based in Salvador. Wishes actually Brazil's black city black city. and. It's. An anti black. Well, it's a it's a group that is basically fighting the fight of A. Black. Genocide and I know it sounds strange because it's based in Salvador. And Salvador's actually the Brazil's black city, but obviously I'm sure many of us know that just because you're city is black. Just because you're a policeman are black. Does that mean? That black people won't suffer from anti-black violence This group is very unique. Because Salvador is a city full of black Kosher Organization and And it's it's the city of Brazil's. Black Africa religion. Kendall Blais. But Hey Azure, settle mortal is. Their unique in that a- dedicates itself one hundred percent, one hundred percent to the fight against genocide people. And it's done this to the extent. That its members led by a man named. Hamilton is meant members often receive threats from the police I actually. I had the opportunity to talk with Hamilton Borjas one time, but this was after It took me very a long time to actually convince him to Kinda. Share history with me and talk with me because of all the threats that he that he receives the people who work in this organization live here daily. Mainly, because. We just settle. Mortal is one of fewer. Partner with the NGO called Soglo global global in it actually formally denounce Brazil's genocide through the Inter American Commission on human. Rights of the Organization of American, states? Very. Very few organizations in Brazil have taken this. This fight against agenda signed to that level. It took it to international level. and. It even actually I want WANNA share. With you today. Last Sunday. It actually led a protest in Salvador. For the death of a young young black man, and he was actually eleven years old. In A. Community in Salvador. In that that protests that they had about I. Think about two hundred people in that protest so this. This nation is constantly doing the work that needs to be done. Can you talk to us a little bit more about What kind of tactics that they use them what else they do in the community? So. He said Oh mortell. Is. Very interesting because in twenty thirteen in two thousand thirteen. Is the same year that the black lives matter movement was probably like full start I think it came about twenty two between twenty, twelve in two, thousand, thirteen and two thousand thirteen. The he is just an immortal had their first. March against the genocide of black people in it's actually called an international march against the genocide of a black people. This march took place you know they. Obviously they held a march in Salvador but people even in real had a march and this March takes place every year in August. And so I think they would be on there like seventh or eighth addition Today this year additionally. One of the things that the group does is it has education is one of their? Emphasis among their organization, because even though Brazil is you know majority. Black Country Salvador is a majority black city. It's. Black Brazilians have to seek out. Knowledge about other liberation movements, or or knowledge about themselves, so they actually in their community that they're locating in they. Even they have a a very extensive library of black books, which are actually easy to come by in Brazil them very extensive library of of black books. And Libraries called the Winnie Mandela Library. That's amazing. That's really incredible community work to show that. You know. The genocide obviously isn't just about police murdering people on the streets, although that is a very. Scary and in your face thing that happens, but clearly the education of people, and like you mentioned in the beginning of the show, being able to see positive examples of yourself is absolutely critical to life, and so it's incredible to hear about that work Can you talk a little bit more about what the long-term role of street protests is in the protest movement both with? Say Morteau, and also in other movements, and what kind of tactics are used in addition to street protests. So us so good question so I'll tell the story to you when. When? The. First images came out of the United States from the street protests or We call them uprisings. In. Brazilian saw! These Pictures of fires. They saw all these thousands of people marching through the streets. There were many Brazilians who actually posted on social media. who were just? They were just talking Black Brazilians. who were were asking themselves? Why don't Black Brazilians or do this? Why don't we do this and it's not that? It actually isn't that Black Brazilians don't march in protest. They actually do that a lot I mean I can tell you I've been to at least. I would say probably at least ten protests that are. Directly related to anti-black police violence and black genocide. I can't say that these. The I can't say that. Many of these protests have been massive like I've never seen in in the last five years. I've been in Brazil. I've never seen a protests on behalf of someone WHO's. been murdered. Larger than five thousand blitz, they happen. They happen all the time. Another form of protests within the community is actually innocent happens especially when. People feel that someone who was innocent was killed. oftentimes, people in the community will burn buses. To, kind of bring like. A visual attention to that community, and this actually recently happened in Sao Paulo two weeks ago. There was a young black man I think he was eighteen years old who? security cameras caught him talking to an off duty police officer and had some interaction, and he disappeared and two days later. People were they were able to locate his body so after that the community. Protested by actually starting. Fires? I of actual businesses or etc, but starting fires with the community to bring attention to what was going on also a lot of times. You'll see see artwork in especially in places like so. Paulo Salvador in. Embryo Mighty Franken. Who is a council woman who was? was assassinated. By people directly connected to the police. she was assassinated two years ago and one of her platforms was fighting against this genocide. If you go to go to Rio digital today, you actually see image. whether it's A. Huge murals and colors, or just like small tiny images of her on on walls, you will see her image across. The city because it's very unlikely that the city will will build. Up Statue in her honor, our build a bust in her hunter, so people have other ways kind of honoring the people who have been lost through this genocide. Listening I add is This is something that's. That's new because. Brazil is actually in the middle of three crisis crisis right now. There's the coronavirus pandemic. Is Ongoing police violence, the police are actually using this pandemic and the social isolation to to in-baik release and kill even more people in the normal, and there's actually a democracy crisis for example President Jacob Job Jar auto has threatened to shut down Congress and even shut down Supreme Court because of corruption investigations that his family is facing. So, what's happening is that. What I'm actually seeing. People the Black woman, especially the coalition. Negative for details. Black Hurry and coalition for rights. I'm seeing. People within the Black Movement unite. With people in the Pro Democracy Movement to include in these pro democracy protests anti-racism protests. So, if inside Paulo on a on a Sunday for the last four, Sundays there have been pro pro democracy. Slash anti-racism protest. In so, this is actually something that. I'm not sure if this is happening in the US, but. Some of the people have talked to in Brazil they. The one of the things that keep on saying is that you can't have a democracy without when you're embracing racism like her. Pro. Democracy has to. A democracy has to be anti races and so. I've yet to figure out if these if the combination of these two protest movement is successful, but I think it's actually very unique in the way, they are combining forces. You mentioned a little bit about the murder. The assassination rather the government connected assassination of councilwoman mightier, Franko and we know that there were huge protests they reported in the wake of that and Brazil has also been an international news for the high profile protest movement that Emily now movement. Me Talk about how all of these are related and also about how the pro democracy protests are related to that as well. Sure saw. About two years ago on March fourteenth, Mighty Franken was a black. Queer councilwoman, the only black. In Rio de Janeiro at the time, she she was assassinated coming from a an event that focused on. Black woman. And one of her. She was very well known Vela communities because she one of her main platforms was actually trying to limit. The police violence that happened that happened in her her home, Favila community. She's from Cabello name money. As well as throughout throughout Rhodesia throughout, Brazil. and. When that happened! It was such a shock to us because. Why Franco represented this like hope for a lot of black woman in Brazil like she I mean she was this black woman who was on her way to huge things, and so just like her story is inspired so many people. And in addition she she was also very well very into very well connected with the leftist movement in Brazil and so once that happened. People were so. Upset and sad that there were protests in Rio de Janeiro actually there were. Like. Nature White protests in Brazil and there were protests in Rio de Janeiro probably for at least two months, not probably every day, but every single. Week there were large protests. I think the largest may have attracted maybe ten thousand people. But there were artists events. There were panel discussions. People were really just trying to figure out. Why is happening in Brazil and connect connected to that? Is the Ellie now Ellie. Now protest so. In that same year was in two thousand eighteen was the presidential elections for Brazil and shortly probably about three months before the final elections There was a feminist movement that was pushing for people not to vote for. Giant giant Bill Sardi. It wasn't. I can't necessarily say it's just feminist, but it was largely backed by by woman, pushing for people not to vote for Jarboe storrow because. Of. Everything that fear would happen to Brazil I mean people fear that the country would actually In the brand Portuguese Essay Charter hotter. Sar Me like it would just go backwards in everything that people feared would happen which you know, people fear that. People fear that there will be increasing. Of the Amazon, that's happening. People fear that there will be increase police violence because Basically Bar Dotto, even though he's not necessarily changing laws, he hasn't changed lauber per se. Just? What the way he talks! He gives the green light for people to for example out the Amazon. He gives a green light for police to kill with impunity There's people feared. Fear just increase. Just. People feared that this country would just become what in which people would be more open with their hate on whether it stemmed from not liking black people were not liking or not liking lgbtq people, and that's actually very true that that is exactly happening in Brazil Brazil is becoming a more A place where people are more open with their hey. And so it is pride month here in the United States which makes me wonder how black or it makes me think about how black Lgbtq people in Brazil especially black transgender women are affected by this violence are uniquely affected by this anti black violence and the police violence. We only have about five minutes left, but talk about that quickly Oh. Yeah, definitely. This actually one of the first. in-depth reporting. Reporting that I didn't zero was actually on the murder of transgender woman Brazil is. According to the six Brazil. Is the country in which transgender women are murdered their most. In Twenty Nineteen N, eighty percent of those women who are murdered are black woman and twenty nineteen. There were approximately one hundred and twenty four murders of transgender woman. And I was looking up the statistics. The statistics actually show. There was a a decrease. In the murder of transgender woman, from two thousand, eighteen to twenty, nineteen, which I was actually surprised to see given. Just you know the political situation in Brazil. But what's happened? Even though there's been a decrease in the murders, there's an increase in in these salts or in. Whether it be verbal assaults and physical that transgender woman are experiencing in Brazil, because like I said, people are just more more open with with their their hatred in Brazil. Even though. On paper. Statistically. In just in real life, transgender woman still. Suffer and still have fear on. There are some bright bright spots. One thing that happened in two thousand eighteen election's is there were actually two Trent Black transgender woman who were elected to statewide positions, one of the people. Her name is America Mellon Gignoux. And Eric King. You'll is considered one of the the. Leaders of Brazil's Blackpool men and what she's done. It's policy was elected to the state Y to a state wide position as I Paulo what she's done is that. She's. On within her platform, and what she'd promotes equality, promote some. Education promotes. Just went in general platform. She always carves out a piece where she's. Making sure that she helps transgender woman Through you know obviously in so Paulo, but whenever p? The work that she does happens as Apollo. It actually spreads across the country. So some of the things that she's doing is that she's making sure that transgender woman can access education better. she's making sure that transgender woman can access jobs better, so there's programs despite their still being a high level of violence against transgender women in Brazil. I do feel like there has been a push significant push to create programs. That can help trencher gender woman through work through education. Now Mind you. One of the things that had did the one thing that did change significantly from in the last five years is that there's less and less government program government support for programs like these Manley because a government like Jared Boston auto refuses to even. Acknowledged that there are transgender people it's it's you know. The previous centre-left governments actually acknowledged that their transgender people engaged money to these causes. These groups cannot expect any money from the government now. And with that, we are about out of time, but thank you so much for being with us this hour. How can our listeners follow? Continue to follow your reporting and continue to follow what's going on on the ground with the movement against anti-black violence, the genocide of black people in Brazil. And what do you hope that our listeners take away from this conversation? Well, the obviously the easiest way to follow me is through my name. My Name Is Cure. Rodion, that's K. I. R. A. Ta. You can buy me accurately on twitter as well as curators Yana Youtube where I'm constantly trying to keep people abreast of what's going on with black Brazil and I think that I. Want people to take away first of all I don't. I don't I'm not trying to you know tell you what to do. When winning the American elections come come about in November but one of the ways that I do feel like Americans or the audience in general. Who who's listening can help Brazil is by actually. Voting for Joe. Biden I know that sounds strange, but. The one of the reasons that Jerboas Nado has kind of had the freedom to do what he's doing. In Brazil and one of the reasons he was elected because we have President Donald Trump in general. Brazil looks to the US as kind of like the lead on how it should. Go for politically so I. would just say you know. Keep when you when you go to the voting booth, mate, perhaps keep Brazilian mind in. Make that influence your decision, because if I just feel like if trump's as another two years in Brazil is going, get another four years of Gerbils Ardo in very fearful. What what happen? Today on the show we put a spotlight on the genocide about black people. In Brazil, our guest today was curate, Yana freelance. She is a freelance journalist based in Brazil, and she has compiled a very informative newsletter called does Brazil have a black lives matter movement, English language resources to help you understand Brazil's movement against black genocide I encourage everybody who's listening to check it out to get a little bit of A. Deeper portrait of what is going on with the genocide against black people in Brazil. Thank you again for being with US Today Cure. That is it for today's show? You have been listening to the Latino media collective on WPF. W Eighty nine point three FM in Washington. DC Your station for jazz injustice.

Brazil Brazil Brazil United States murder Brazil Brazil government White People Brazil Coalition Black Impor Black Coalition for Rights twitter Black Coalition Washington Paulo Salvador A. Black president John Petro Eighth Twenty Twenty
278: Undocumented and LGBTQ (Part 5)

Latino Rebels Radio

54:21 min | 1 year ago

278: Undocumented and LGBTQ (Part 5)

"Hey guys love Latino rebels radio and if you are a fan of the show you know that once in a while we feature the work of the Latino media collective and so this week we're featuring the work of about you know media collective on Latino Radio Joy It took and yeah and Yeah Doc. Take It did and breath readings readings readings. And you've only had this time in Washington all points beyond this is Oscar Fernandes and you're listening to the Latino medical record that the studios are WPF w eighty nine point three three FM Washington DC. To- Columbia here on this Friday October. Fourth two thousand nine hundred eighteen also heard on the Internet on own website. which is Latino media collective DOT COM? You also find us on twitter under the name at Elham see underscores show that his at LLC underscores show and of course live on the ups W FM that orgy that's WPF W FM DOT ORG once again. This is Oscar Fernandes Today on the show. We continue our special series on the undocumented and LGBTQ experience the marginalized group within the marginalized group the caravan within the caravan. This time we take a look on the documented. LGBTQ experience as it pertains to health and how the US government as far back as nineteen nineteen eighty s at the dawn of the AIDS epidemic prevented immigrants from entering the country under the guise of public health concerns and quote unquote national security already. And so with us on the show. Today is Kenyan Farrell. He's a senior editor for the body. Dot Com and the body pro which are both HIV AIDS resorts sites. He has an August article entitled using issue. Justify immigration. Bands is a new. Here's the thirty five year history and this was written ridden by Giuliani Albany. Enga as well and Kenyon Farrow joins us in studio today. Welcome to the show. Kenyon Farrow argue very much. Ask Very glad to be here is good to have you with I. We've covered the issue immigration this past summer. which has been very difficult summer as it pertains to you know the conditions that immigrants are in right now in detention and how it amounts of concentration camps? We've seen PROPUBLICA exposed as secret facebook chat of racism and xenophobia by immigration authorities. We've seen how corporate media has exploited the tragic death of Oscar in Bolivia Martinez and infamous photo being shown about we've even talked about the connection between immigration and global warming. But we haven't really covered board that of the issue public health and HIV AIDS to the undocumented Lgbtq community and doing this undocumented documented and LGBTQ experience shows almost every guest. We've had as has mentioned the issue of AIDS HIV or or public health in general. And so so this is something that we want to talk to you about because this is something this is something that I feel when grossly under the radar this past summer particularly that of the a statement of the CPAP chief of law enforcement operations regarding HIV and AIDS as it pertains immigrants. I wonder if you could point this out because again this is when grossly under the radar the summer sure. Yes so This happened in late July so As you mentioned Brian Hastings. WHO's the chief of law enforcement and operations with most of the US Customs and Border Patrol in a testimony in front of Congress when asked about whether the administration was intentionally separating operating children and parents they ask specifically about You know parents who were people who are? HIV positive and words were they intentionally actually separating children from from their parents living with HIV and his response was well. I would separate A person who has RV from their child because HIV is a communicable disease now HIV is a communicable disease But it is sexually asleep. Transmitted is transmitted through. Blood is not transmitted by touching it. It's not transmitted by saliva is transmitted by coughing. Or you know you know which in cases like tuberculosis is so there's no public health threat to a child Just by virtue of being carried by their parents and there would be no the reason for that but that was part of the justification and just kind of goes to show just as the level of kind of willful ignorance of the administration not just about HIV. But also the things that they'll use strategically to justify their policies. That's perfect right there willful ignorance. Because we've known about disease at least for the last thirty five years and it just seems seems like it's back to the future turn back. The clock forgotten understanding HIV AIDS in Layman's terms. It's a real head scratcher to me. Would that said though. The trump administration did not invent the latest series of discriminatory practices against people with HIV and AIDS. So in your article in the body Dot Com. Can you tell us about the challenges faced by Haitian immigrants back in the early eighties at the dawn of the AIDS epidemic. PEDANTIC 'cause we know about it as it pertains to here in the US but regards to Haitian immigrants that's something that's not as well. No sure so We discovered HIV. It was initially reported in June of one thousand nine hundred one as a gay cancer. Right which would speaks. Do a level of like discrimination and Homophobia in the government like what is the gay cancer or gain pneumonia but that was sort of the original way it was being talked about and report eh but once it was discovered it was probably an infectious disease and initially was thought of as Gay Related Immune Deficiency Syndrome drome Before we got to HIV Human Immunodeficiency Syndrome We are human immunodeficiency virus The administration the Reagan administration in one thousand nine hundred eighty two so about a year later after the first discovery of HIV in the United States notice noticed that patients who were trying to enter the US who are taking boats in the Caribbean to try to reach Florida to seek asylum from the political situation in Haiti. which if you know history the the American government as you know a lot to do with particularly at that particular point But the policy of the administration was to turn people away the Haitians that they turn away they were letting some Cubans particularly white right Cubans into the country but Viewer from Haiti You were not allowed so They noticed in one thousand nine hundred eighty two that there were some Haitians who were in fact With what we would now say who are you know had aids or who were HIV positive and the administration at that point ain't in starting to craft it's kind of public health messaging kind of labeled hastens specifically as a kind of cause of HIV and That sort of began to fuel the the I sorta statutes or policies around immigration and HIV. We're actually targeted in Haitians to keep patients out of the country And I should say to that The policy to keep patients out of the country actually went back under the Carter administration before Reagan and the Reagan administration. Just sort of kept it up and you know because of the AIDS crisis Sort of donning awning of it had a reason to use HIV to also then Say Wall Haitians are also bringing into this country and so they need to be kept out as well. Exactly one of the staff members here on W. P. of w is of Haitian descent and I told him ahead of time that we were GonNa have this issue and and he wanted to point out that it wasn't just asylum that LGBTQ Haitians were were coming to the US for but to escape murder. He said capital so am D. R. murder during this time on top of the other social political issues that you mentioned already with of course like many cases. US support on top of what you just mentioned right now. What were the four ages during this time in the one thousand nine hundred eighty s as it pertained to Haitian immigrants here? Sure so just after the Kind of initial bans on on Haitians entering the country with HIV. The government's initial sort of Public Caliph Messaging About the AIDS crisis was to tell people that you know if you're one of the four H.. Is then you have to worry about HIV. So the four ages were homosexuals haemophiliacs heroin addicts and And hastens and that was was the original way that the epidemic was framed and and literally was rolled out as part of the you know sort of strategy to sort of communicate about HIV The two Americans from a public health officials And obviously Kind of even to this day. I mean it's sort of set up a dynamic to which people first of all assume that if they were not in any of those four categories that they had no risk and as we know now certainly it is a sexually transmitted. Ah infection more than anything And certainly through you know sharing needles but that became the framework. And so you know it was a way to sort word of tell Particularly you know white middle class Americans and if you're none of these things you don't have to worry about. This is a disease of those people and and frankly the only people who really got any sort of sympathy at that time Warren fact hemophiliacs and in fact our biggest sort of HIV sort of you know Policy Win that came out of the late eighties early nineties. The Ryan White Care Act which is a pot of money that provides you know. HIV CARE IT provides money for HIV treatment in Drugs for people with called Ryan White after a young white HEMOPHILIAC. Feel yet right so if you think of all the bows of other people who died of AIDS that we had to sort of use a young white HAEMOPHILIAC as a kind of innocent in order to get a bill passed asked to serve what was disease even at that point that was mostly black and Brown and Queer and Trans People. Yeah you sort of took the words right down. I was GONNA mentioned right Ryan White at a certain point during this conversation because it is sort of a I Dunno right word like a double edged sword with the Ryan White Case. Because you're right it it did help Bring some degree of better awareness and understanding and resources and treatment for HIV AIDS during that time. But again like you said unfortunately a lot of black and Brown people hundred thousand die before we got to this point point with the Ryan wikileaks. Unfortunately and unfortunately we're going to mention Ronald Reagan. Lot In this case. Because you know I don't think the younger your generation right now understands. Just how callous and inhumane the Reagan administration especially Reagan himself. What's at the dawn of the the AIDS epidemic? And how little he cared. He took him like five or seven years. Correct me if I'm wrong from even mentioned the word as or to make any sort of definitive statements any kind of statement regarding HIV AIDS that time oh absolutely so. You know the thing with Ronald Reagan. I mean if you listen to television now especially we're gearing up for presidential election and you know for the last twenty years the Republican Party and even a lot the Democrats frankly. We'll talk about Ronald Reagan as sort of compassionate conservatism. And that you know if the Republican Party could just returned earn to the values of Ronald Reagan. Then you'd have a much more diverse party a party. That was more kind of welcoming to arrange arrange different people than the White Nationalist Party has become But what is honestly true about Ronald Reagan. Is that actually. Reagan became president precisely because because of his cruelty and meanness to Black and Brown people to the LGBT community And and was seen really as the kind of answer to the winds that a lot of social justice movements have made in the nineteen sixties and Seventies. So he was seen as the counter to The Civil Rights Movement Black Liberation Movement to the American Indian Movement to the feminist movement to the gay and Lesbian Movement. I mean those those movements And and frankly the welfare rights movement because a lot of people don't know the what we got during the Clinton administration in the Mid Nineties Welfare Reform Act. was actually something Ronald Donald. Reagan was trying to pass in one thousand nine hundred seventy as governor of California so the welfare reform was based on that model of trying to make people work for well work for their welfare benefits of Ronald. Reagan was the architect of that. So this idea of Reagan as this kind of centrist Republican. You know figure doesn't really bear out and in fact you're right in terms of the AIDS epidemic that it took until I think about nineteen eighty-six before Reagan even said the word you know AIDS on television or HIV or any public remarks and that was only done because the actor rock Hudson who was a friend of the Reagans apparently went to the White House Before four he died and said to them to Ronald and Nancy that I'm dying of AIDS I'm gay and You had better say something about it and and do something and so. That was the only reason that Reagan Even began to mention the word AIDS and then of course by nineteen eighty-seven the next year the year. The you know. AS COALITION TO UNLEASH POWER ACT UP IS SORT of formed initially in New York and spread globally and becomes the the kind of main sort of organizational configuration. I've really begins to push the administration Both Reagan later Bush and Clinton administrations to actually Really respond to the epidemic. Yeah Compassionate Conservative. He was barely compassionate to rock. That's right that I remember I WANNA ask you in your Argo. Who is Gaetan Dugas? 'cause I this is one articles where the read it two or three times because I it had almost doubled sakers even now. It seems kind of unbelievable to believe that this is something that people believed in or something something like this was even presented as fact but this is an interesting story this also pertains to the mission Haitian immigrants that we mentioned but also to the issue of HIV AIDS that. I hope you strain out for me this this I guess you could say urban legend now of Gaetan Dugas who was sure so so Gaetan dugas or probably do guy. He was a French Canadian media. Gay Man who was a flight attendant who Obviously a flight attendant traveled to a lot of different cities and Who died of AIDS? I believe leaving Nineteen eighty-four but the there became the sort of working theory First of all that There was a kind of a theory the vet you know the HIV was brought into the US via Haiti. First of all so that was part of the sort of connection that not just that they were Haitians who happen to be eight to be positive but that actually the original route through which you know. HIV got into. The United States was from Haiti of which has never been proven. But AH also that You know do guess wise. What was called patient zero so the person who actually brought what age? Iv into the United States and people fought there because You know he assumed him to be promiscuous or what have have you that While he must've being a French-canadian you know having you know flown flights to Puerto Princesa to other parts of Haiti Contracted HIV in Haiti brought into the United States and and sleeping with other gay men in the United States is how HIV spread to. ooh Game in in the United States. I so and that theory Became very much kind of rooted in the American mythology about had HIV. Through a book. I call and the band played on which was I think published in nineteen eighty seven and then a film about bouts called the Bam play on also which you can still watch which is is a film version of the of the book which which also uses uses the very same narrative that Dugong was patient zero. And it's the film is in the book is about kind of like how the CDC was trying to figure out what was happening. And and where this this new infection was coming from a whatever and so they have an actor in the film play him and and the whole deal and only a probably last five five years. I think that through now different sort of technology were ebbing able to prove that this man did not bring dvd. Not Patient Zero. That's a miss Do not bring into the United States but if we think about the sort of four H.. Is it helps cement in the American imagination the connection action between you know the Haiti and homosexuals portion of the four ages As a particular vectors of love of disease. The film and the band played on. I don't think people realize how friendly over advertise film was when does she came out H. B. O. pleaded ad nauseam on on their channel. Back back in the nineties and it's also infuriating because knowing what we know oh now and even back. Then it's based on the premise of homophobia and transphobia going back to four inches. That you just mentioned right. Yeah people never. There were people who refuted that theory at the time but they were not listen to people who refuted the theory about you know. Hey says at the time A lot particularly a lot of Black Black American activists You know were responding to an Haitians in the United States responding to What people felt rightly? Were you know kind of racist and and homophobic theories of of of the disease. So can you give us details on the Reagan administration's pressure on the US public health service to add HIV to exclude excludable health conditions. 'CAUSE I even now. I think we're just scratching the surface to the the lack of humidity in the Reagan administration record h HIV and the tier. Sure so because of the you know kind of growing epidemic United States The fears about you know Haiti that had been established. You know about HIV since nineteen eighty two and And then the the book and the band played on comes out in nineteen eighty seven and this is at the time where just a year prior nine hundred ninety. Six rock cuts in sort of makes Reagan start to talk about the epidemic. But one of the things that Ronald Reagan does is his sort of way to respond to the epidemic is to The pressure the US public health service to add HIV to a list of excludable health conditions. Right and despite there are a lot of Protests about that so the US Public Health Service Is You know able to you know to sort of do that. They will list. You know excludable health conditions for people entering the country To Burke Yellow says is one for instance You know Ebola's when people remember you know kind of out year. SARS bird flu all the all these things that you see sort of news that you know when you hear these stories about off Oh you know. Their travel bans on coming from certain countries. You've traveled to these countries in the last twenty one days. He's still see those towns in the airport. If if you're flying internationally they'll sometimes even if I go to my doctor like they'll they'll ask. Have you been to you know country you know in you. Know what are you been out of the country in the last twenty one days right. They're still trying to figure out if you like. Maybe having Bola right I mean this is this still happens so so Ronald Reagan added. HIV veto the list of excludable Conditions health conditions to prevent people with HIV from traveling in the United States Now people advocates and actors have been trying to get that removed After Reagan left office By the time that we got got to nine hundred ninety when George George H W Bush was in office we're senior and and he ultimately Signed it into law to remove HIV from listed excludable conditions. But actually Congress overrode it and put it back in and and it lasted For for many years so but that was sort of how we ended up getting you know. HIV kind of into listened to suitable conditions. And then Bill Clinton comes along and kind of more problems to the US so much more problems and let me just say right now since you're Senate to repeat again even now there's still stigma of immigrants not just LGBTQ organs but immigrants in general bringing diseases. You have people such as Lou adopt still on TV. Who who would push this idea? That immigrants were bringing liberty and among these other ridiculous cases. have no proof whatsoever. We're getting a break right here. We're speaking with Kenyon Farrow. He's a senior editor for the body DOT COM and the body pro. This is a Latino media. Collective GonNa take a quick break right here back with more than a minute. Stay tune is valley so we got that went on low though you memorial. Royal will ooh uh-huh Yeah Yeah uh It does The title. You're listening to Latino media collective yawn. WPF W eighty nine point three FM Washington. Reminding everyone. Did you also check us out on our website. Aside which is Latino medical active dot Com. You also follow us on twitter. An name at LLC underscores showed that is at l. m. c. underscores show and of course is live on. WPF W eighty nine point three FM Washington. Once again this is Oscar Fernandez and this is part five of the undocumented and LGBTQ abused series. He owned a Latino collective. Were joined today by Kenyan Farrell. WHO's a senior editor for the body DOT COM and the body pro as well? Oh so Kenyan. Let's go now into the ninety S as we continue to struggle for HIV and AIDS and AIDS writes research education. All these things. How would you going into those? How would you describe the battle for immigrant rights as pertains taste during the night because there was some progress being made? But you'll sort of at a snail's pace to say the least so in one thousand nine hundred I mean one of the Things that happen that you mentioned earlier segment was the Ryan White Care Act passed and I. I think that it is important to talk about it in terms terms of The it's kind of relationship to immigrants because they actually became a way for immigrants to actually get access to HIV care in the United Estates. So in that sense. That was a sort of a good thing at the same time. There was still these struggles around immigration policy in terms of people with HIV who were immigrants being able to enter the country so The fight that was happening through the you know Bush senior administration about whether HIV would be added to the list of excludable health conditions again Initially Bush had removed HIV and and really. They removed everything but Turkey losses All the other conditions that were in the list as well at the time. But then Congress put those things back in a lot of activists for that and Bill Clinton had promised during during his presidential campaigns. This would have been nineteen ninety-two the end of Bush's campaign before Clinton was elected And then inaugurated in ninety three three that he was going to Take these You know take these out. But he ultimately Signed the bill which left You know HIV in as a excludable condition So this happened at the same time that there were two hundred a Haitian in Guantanamo Bay who were living with HIV In nineteen ninety three. So part of what they were doing was quarantining them in Guantanamo Bay. They were trying to you know. Come through You know come to Florida on on grass a range of other things that were happening happening at the time. And in fact so Jesse Jackson You know who had run for president twice at that point or whatever. It was The more active as a political active in the United States as the hunger strike against the Clinton administration in order to get them to release The Haitian immigrants who are being detained by the United States Guantanamo Bay for no other reason they were living native. I'm glad that you mentioned that because I don't want to get off track here but is very important side note to mention why were Haitian immigrants in turned in one tunnel Bayon. AM decided to begin with and this is because of another US overthrow of a of a president. In in eighty signed a democratically elected Haitian president uh of John Bertrand Aristide and not too many people know this but the detainment of patients during this period time is sort of the blueprint for the today aged the detention of migrants today on the US Mexico border now people realize it but it should be noted because it also includes Lgbtq immigrants as well so that brings us to move forward into the nickels amendment. What was the nickels amendment yet? So Nichols amendment. Was that bill that passed that ended up Cementing into law so went from just being kind of a policy to being. Do you know that the Reagan administration held but then became law that excluded that add. HIV You know legally to the list of exclusions got communicable diseases. That people could be you know Banned from entering the the people could be banned from entering the United States You know for and that bill basically lasted until the Obama administration with some tweaks start to happen when George W W Bush was in office but but basically became the way. US policy for HIV Happened for many years and and so you know so to that extent there for almost twenty years I think for nineteen years the international as conference which is a conference. That happens every two two years. I'm on the even years and it goes from different cities around the world There have been an international as Congress in the United States. I believe in San Francisco in the late eighties but or maybe early nineties but basically after the amendment passed it wasn't until two thousand twelve when the next International AIDS Conference would be held the United States. Because I was after the you know the ban was lifted ultimately so let you said before there had been some progress obedient albeit at a snail's pace going up to two thousand nine nonetheless though what damage had been done by this point for the LGBTQ immigrant community not by this point because you know a lot of lives could have been saved had had things been better at least from the immigrant. Point of view. better explained as far as you know diseases cancer. Sure so I think one of the things that have been done doing the damage wise. was you know it. Just it prevented It created a situation where so they were immigrants if you were already in the United States and living with with HIV. It made it much more difficult for people to actually either want to get tested for HIV. Or one come out about their status. Whether or not they would have been deported or anything but just knowing that statute was there a kept a lot of people kind of under the radar not being able to seek treatment and care or even just to get an HIV test Particularly if they were undocumented right so I think it kind of had a chilling effect Into the work that you know the people could do in terms of education prevention and treatment for people who are immigrants in the United States for for many years. But then I think you know I mean just as some of the you know the impact I think of the band so first of all in the time sense You know in two thousand from basically two thousand thousand three until the present day have been about seventeen people that we know that have died in an ice custody You know who are HIV positive positive and so oftentimes you know is in many ways mirrors. What happens in the? US prison system. It really depends on where you you are and who decides whether to you get tested for HIV whether not to have access to the treatment even if you disclose and we have documented cases of people who were in and ice attention who disclosed that they were living with HIV and needed access to medication and just weren't given it and who died Unnecessarily of as while they were in custody custody and so I think you know that is one of the you know kind of standing You know implications of what you know what what the band and the sort of politics around HIV and immigration have meant in the United States the most notable case that we've covered here and many other LGBTQ LGBTQ guests that we've had on the show is that of of Roxanne Hernandez who who died in ice custody due to lack of medical care not necessarily of the disease per se but mainly because of lack of medical care and this brings us now to the present point in time and we haven't mentioned the trump administration but before we do we should point out the irony of the trump administration even trump the individuals is anti LGBTQ Hugh statements and Palsy actions. The irony of him doing that considering that his mentor Roy. Cohn was a closeted gay man who died died of AIDS and didn't disclose until after fact who was also I remember. Now the the attorney for the owners of studio fifty four back in the late seventies as as well and you know it's just leaves people scratching their heads if they know their history and their background to the issues that we mentioned here but I WANNA go back to rock center Nana's because we have to make something very clear under current federal immigration law should LGBTQ d.`you immigrants received medical treatment under organizations like is when they disclose it. They have such diseases so absolutely people. should should receive treatment First and foremost I think still people know we've come a very very long way in terms of HIV treatment and care in the United States. So you know we had our first you know you know anti retroviral medications or or people may remember in the mid nineties when the when it was the cocktail of drugs. That was like the you know the the the language but it was the idea that you could take several different in concert medications that would suppress the virus in your body and so we went from you know. I getting those medications on the market in the mid nineties and sometimes sometimes those pills at the time were you know handfuls appeal. Sometimes they had really rough side effects that you had to take different times you can take a food some you to take on and be stomach etc.. We've come from there to now. In most cases most people with HIV are taking one pill a day in most places around the world. Ah So treatment has gotten that good and also if people Take Treatment and get what we call. Violently suppressed are undetectable undetectable. They cannot transmit the virus they cannot transmit the virus that they have sex without a condom if they are violently suppressed. This is known studies have been done so this is just to say like the how violet is to then You know first of all detained people often for very little. You know any any reason You know of event them not having whatever kind of paper supposedly to Knowing how good treatment is and how is keeping people alive and in keeping people healthy without any of the kind of health concerns if they're living with HIV and a lot of cases what it means that the people that medication once they're in treatment to the extent that then they they die. I it's it's that much more cruel given how good treatment I mean is if you think about that way I wanna take this moment to remind everyone that Kenyon Farrow Roldan Argo article for the body dot com entitled using HIV to justify immigration. Bans is in new. Here's the thirty five year history and this was co written by Giuliani. Alvarenga are bring this up because says I really enjoy the work that you've done on the body dot com not just you but other people who are on there and it's a very important resource to have have writers such as self to document this because it should be pointed out here at this moment in time that many people who were there at the dawn of the AIDS typically thirty five years ago are not with us anymore some have come and gone and a lot of important storytellers. Who whose work? And whose foist may not have been as well documented. Now you know May as well not have been documented back then as it is now are not here with us right now and one of those that you mentioned in another article a separate article that you did or did is here. Was the case of Andy Velez so for those people may not know who is and developers or who was so analyze Puerto Rican activists Gay Men in New York City who was active Enact up Pretty much from its early inception in the eighties. And I mean just went on to do an amazing amount. aww Of work in New York City. I always said in the article that I wrote when Andy died a few months ago. Was that I in my you know. Twenty years essentially living in New York City and You know participating in a range of different actions and not just HIV ones around housing around harm reduction around LGBT youth. Around you know. Mass incarceration and police brutality. I cannot remember a rally or an action and that I ever attended any villas was not present and so it just speaks to his commitment to social justice issues for people and Andy also mentored a lot of young activists to And I think and so we just lost Andy and actually there's about to be on this Friday a memorial in New York City The community memorial forever for Andy's passing. I'm coming up which I'm really said about him. You know need made films and shot a lot of like an incredible amount of photography. From the you know years of living in New York City and You know of the peers and the West village culture for a long time so he did a lot of interesting work in addition into You know his his work as a as a organizer and activist is sorely missed in New York City for certain. Yeah and I mentioned his name because you know whenever someone like that passes on is just an IT's It's another page loss in this very important in history for the Lgbtq community especially for those in that generation at the dawn of the AIDS epidemic. I'm not saying this because you're here and this may be speculation on my part but who knows how many lives could have been saved if there were organizations like the buy Dot Com who are raising awareness. You know in and much will the way you're doing right now you know. Would that said you know. Spaghetti raising awareness. Since you're here live in studio with us here in Washington DC. It's worth noting. What brings you to Washington DC this this week? Sure so I'm here actually To cover a conference on caller. Id Weekend ID I D- stay in this case stands for infectious disease we so it's an annual conference of the Infectious Disease Society of America which are an consensually an association of a medical doctors who do infectious disease working so folks who arranged things not just HIV but of Sei's and other You know just an infectious disease conditions to Berkeley Hills etc So and it's usually a few thousand people with a pretty big conference doctors and it's one of the conferences services that we cover our site. The body DOT COM is more Lay Person Community. You know site for news and information about HIV of health harm reduction. We're doing a lot of stuff about the OPIOID crisis. As well we covered a around. You know every range of different communities in the United States but our site. The body pro is kind of geared more pro released for professionals People who work in the HIV feels so there we cover a lot of the HIV sort of research news and go to conferences like this and cover some of the you know kind of latest news and things that are happening within the conference self. If even if you're not a you know a person who works in HIV. But you're kind of a kind of science in Public Health Geek or WANNA know about healthcare. Oh Care it's also great resource because you'll learn a lot on the body pro about You know kind of what's happening. It's face of research and and a place like idea we. There are a lot of physicians who are also activists. I mean I last year when the conference in San Francisco Recall Melanie Thompson who's who's a an HIV dot from Atlanta Georgia and a few other ones really calling out the medical community That it's time to be activists and it's great to serve your patients but given the threats to the affordable care act given you know the threats to You Know Okay Immigrants and undocumented folks in this country to you know police brutality and black means a range of things that this is the time that physicians actually have to do more than just you know. see patients right and so it's a conference where also that kind of spirit of activism from physicians providers also lives. Well you know what truth be told we should all be health geeks especially as it pertains it HIV AIDS. Because I'm old enough to remember you. I know when the AIDS epidemic started may have been six years old but I still remember you know the fear in here in Washington D.. These at the very least and even though we've said that there's been something investment a lot of advancement of regardless of how mistaken how it's how it's research how it's funded. The fear of HIV AIDS should not go away no matter which generation we're talking about because it's still a very deadly disease and on top of that it's more deadlier when there's willful. Ignorance by the government where the government or any other government for that matter. So Oh we're almost out of time. We have about five minutes left so it's still an ongoing problem for the undocumented. LGBTQ community regards to Social Social Social Justice here even now. Immigrants are being blamed for the new outbreak of measles here in the US. You know it's more you know. There are people in corporate media saying this has more to do with immigrants as opposed to the ignorance towards vaccination you know right it's the last few years You know I've been following unfortunately You know Breitbart Dot com and some of the kind of right wing websites and even in the Obama Administration. They they were talking about you. Know immigrants coming into this country spreading diseases burkey. Laos's they talked about a lot. Arrange things so there was already an infrastructure for understanding. What we what we now see in terms of now having a president you bet is detaining people separating families etc the border but the groups that supported trump's kind of rise as has a figure and then getting into office already promoting this idea of You know immigration as like a a way in which you know kind of you know diseases will come into the United States whenever so Yet that has been been very active in terms of a lot of quote unquote outright or white national kind of like Rhetoric game and unfortunately it shows no insight and it's just speaks volumes to you the willful ignorance of medical science under the guise under the dark shadow of racism xenophobia homophobia and Transphobia and so this is why outlets such as the buy dot com and the body pro are so important even now today and tomorrow regard understanding the public health. So with that said we've been speaking with Kenyon Farrow. He's a senior editor for the body. Dot Com and the body pro his August articles entitled using using HIV to justify immigration bands isn't new. Here's the thirty five year history. It's co written by Giuliani Alvarenga. And we're going to post this on our twitter account as well so Kenyan feral thank you very much for being on the show with us. Thank you so much for having me and with that said that is it for today's show. We WanNA remind everyone. Did you could check out the episode in our previous episodes on site. which is Latino media collective DOT COM? Go also follow us on twitter. The name at L.. AMC underscores show and and of course live on WBZ FW FM that orgy that's WBZ FW FM. Dot Org so on behalf. My Co producer abby. Roberts this is Oscar Fernandes saying thank you very much. Everyone for listening to this show. That's it for today's show at us. Those rebels Chow uh-huh the Yeah the yeah yeah

HIV United States AIDS HIV Ronald Reagan Reagan administration DOT COM twitter Kenyon Farrow Haiti Congress senior editor Bill Clinton Oscar Fernandes Ryan White George George H W Bush president Washington DC
The Oscar episode

Studio 360 with Kurt Andersen

53:52 min | 1 year ago

The Oscar episode

"This episode of Studio Three Sixty is brought to you by the relentless a new podcast from slate studios and century twenty one real estate the relentless is about successful people well and the mindsets and behaviors that drive them to achieve success. Join host doctor of Clinical Psychology Gerner. She talks to people like entrepreneur and author author of radical candor. Kim Scott in venture capitalist arlan Hamilton about the qualities that set them apart and how they view success differently. You'll hear about what they've learned from their triumphs and how they've grown from rejection and how they're continuing to evolve listen and subscribe to the relentless today. Wherever you get your podcasts? You've probably used dropbox at some point while working on a project maybe just to share and store files but did you know that dropbox is also also a great tool for collaborating with all kinds of teams take filmmaking for example whether it comes to location scouting or perfecting the so mix crew members use dropbox to keep everyone in sync from start to finish. It takes a team to make great films possible a little later in the show. We'll hear from the director picture of movie that premiered at the Twenty Twenty Sundance Film Festival Today on Studio Three Sixty I think more editor should live with their films. uh-huh longer you have to live with the film for four decades film. schoon maker has been. Martin Scorsese's closest collaborator and most patient. We sometimes like to due twelve edits of our movies. Yeah it takes a long time to get it right. The Oscar nominated editor of the Irishman. Breaks down there painstaking process plus now. I'm not afraid of cinema. I Love Cinema. I'm not trying to make cinema disappear. Why Quentin Tarantino up for an Oscar for once upon the time in Hollywood makes no apologies fulfilling his movies with quotes from other movies? You know could you imagine an author having read too many books. I Love Cinema Cinema. I have no problem basking in cinema and its history. Its Twenty Twenty Oscar. Our coming up on studio three three sixty three sixty. I'm currently. I'm sitting on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial I level of guard this Thomas. Jefferson's vegetable I'd like to have the roasted chicken waste very well. Editing is all about timing. I tried to get a little bit away from the actual subject. must get sick of your voice right studio three sixty with good Anderson. The Academy Awards are upon us. So we're spending this hour on studio three sixty looking at some of the nominated rated films and talking with the people who made such as Martin Scorsese's epic gangster movie the Irishman which is up for ten awards them. Yeah no not that way. Would you gotta do. Is You know. Put a firecracker up Dorfman Jess for so get message message on. The Irishman Scorsese. Worked once again with Robert Deniro and once again with Joe Patchy and once again with his closest collaborator who's up for one of those Oscars for the Irishman film editor. Thelma schoon maker. She worked with him on his very first feature when they were kids in nineteen sixty seven and on everyone scorsese's films since nineteen eighty. She's cut everything from the baletic fight. Sequences in raging bull to those crazed as hilarious drugged out party scenes in Wolf of Wall Street. That's one of the great things about working for him. is that every film is different. He never wants to repeat himself. I talked with almost coon maker in two thousand seventeen about their long partnership he sets himself certain challenges with each film. I get over the hurdle with them which is very very exciting exciting. It makes every film new wonderful adventure and I just love it right so walk me through how you and says he worked together. You you say you see you see a shooting script right before he shoots and then then you wait till you get the film and You do your thing is that it or or and is he with you or do you sit down for a couple of days and say okay. This I think goes here and this may be shorter. How does that work? Well I always do the I cut On Your own. Yes from from from his when he looks at Daly's with me. That's very important and you do that as yes. Hopefully we once he looks at Daly's than I He gives me a ton of notes and I tell him what I feel. He wants me to be a cold. I looking at the Julie's and tell him if there's anything wrong I need to take his great. That's right so I take very careful notes from that and then I make selects in descending order of preference of the delivery of the line for example and then I make the first cut and then as soon. MCC shooting he comes in and we do everything else together. We sometimes like to twelve edits of our movie. In how many weeks is that. It depends on how it can be as as long as a year really. Yeah sometimes it can be six months. We Cut Cape Fear and six but never less than six months now. Wow that's a hard job. Yeah it takes a long time time to get it right you know and So that's like thirty seconds today or no. I just did the map. It is But you know it's it's just very it's we work really hard and we screen much more and re cut much more than most editors are allowed how to do. Fortunately we are allowed to do that. Right I think more editor should live with their films longer. You have to live with them. Absolute really lived with it. Yeah Yeah and that's that's important and then of course all the finishing work is takes a long time putting the music in the sound effects and mixing it and all all of that. Are you still highly involved in that. Oh very much so yeah. I'm mixed the the rough really the director. You really the filmmaker we start saying oskoui maker at all. Marty is very much. Yeah Yeah Yeah. I'm his collaborate. Everybody goes yeah. Yeah Yeah but you know it's true I know he's a great editor. He taught me everything thing. I ever know about editing. So what did he teach you. Like for instance how. How do you use editing in holding on a character to build the character of uh-huh what's an example of that well one thing that would be something you might know? which is that in the scene in goodfellas where Joe Patchy is asking? What's funny about Me Gene Snore? You talk it. It's funny it's funny story. Funny how I mean funny like I'm a clown you you I make you laugh. I'm here to fucking musial. What do you mean funny? Funny how how my funny one of the interesting cuts that we made there is. This is a situation. That actually happened to Joe Pesci himself and he told Marty about it and then Mardi decided to put it in the film so actually the Ray liotta character is who Joe Patchy was and Joe Pesci. Yes she is playing the Mafia guy who's tormenting him and pet. She told Marty I knew at a certain point that I had to figure out a way to break it with humor or something or I was going to get killed and so we spent a long time trying to figure out how long to wait for Ray Liotta to say the kids the Fuck Eddie your time and we tried it with eight seconds. We tried it with seven seconds. Retired Saturday ended. And if somebody's GONNA get killed right here. Six seconds of time road and and after the last explosive and threatening remark. I don't fucking funny. What the fuck is so funny about me? Dummy tell me what's fun instead of cutting Array Liotta and having him say the line away Marty told him wait and then kits fuck Eddie Eddie your tummy and everybody starts to laugh so we tried many different links of how long to hold on radio too. That's the kind of thing that editing is about. And one of the things I tell L. students to that whole sequence was shot in a medium wide. There were no close ups in it at all because Marty wanted to show what was happening to the people around. Ray LIOTTA AROUND JOE PESCI as it starts out very funny. Everybody's laughing then pretty soon. Things Begin to get a little scary and get scarier and scarier and you see on the faces of the people people around them that they're really beginning to get worried and that was a great lesson for me in the right use of technique. You don't always have to have close ups sometimes a medium show or watch out is just as good well and it's interesting that you say he said wait and there's a version of comedy going on in that horrible. My God seeing so it is a timing thing of of a second or two. Editing is all about timing and rhythm you know between into actors and So that we often will Delay of aligned delivery or for example. Mardi sometimes we'll take the sound out as he didn't. I didn't in silence. There's a scene where Chiro steps on a fool me and it swish pans to his mother and just people knew that is. It's this kind of Ski Christian character right and and and and who is forced to step on an image of Jesus Jesus to show that. He's he's a pasta sizing giving up the faith supposedly and the Camera Swish Pans to his mother screaming and Har that he's done this and Marty said take the sound out and it's so powerful it's so powerful and there are several other times where we did that in the movie to And there have been other times where we've done it in raging bull for for example when Sugar Ray Robinson cannot get Jake Lamotta to go down in the last crucial fight. And he can't figure out what he can do to get him to go down. I'm and Marty did this. Incredible youthful shot which where sugary pulls back the lights dim. And you just see sugary standing there breathing thing you hear just the sound of an animal breathing and our sound editor. Frank Warner said to us take the sound away. Uh and then go back to sugary and the lights come back up and the camera comes back up to speed and comes in for the kill and so all of that is what makes editing and great camerawork and great directing of this was just The Greenwich Thank you. Thanks thanks so much thelma. Spoon makers been nominated for an academy award for her editing the Irishman. She's already one. Three for a raging bull the aviator and the depart to hear Thelma screen maker give a literal blow by blow of how she edited one of the great fight scenes in raging bull. Go to studio the three sixty dot org another Oscar contender this year. Is Noah Baumbach drama marriage story which stars Scarlett Johansson and Adam driver. How dare you could hear my mother and my mother? I maybe like my father but I am not like my mother. And you're like my father. You're also like my mother bad things about all of these people but mostly of other. It'll be interesting to see during the Oscar. TV Show exactly how Adam driver reacts when they play a clip of his best actor nominated performance because he hates seeing or hearing himself on screen so much that a few months ago he walked out on Terry Gross in the middle of an interview for fresh air when she played a clip of him which surprised me because when I talked to him in two thousand thirteen he was indulgent as we watched one scenes from the TV show girls. I did ask him why it made him so uncomfortable. I mean lots of reasons I just forgot why look like to was reminded in my God. That's what you have to go through that But mostly because I feel like If he was gonNA continue if it was going to kind of go on that You know I came from a theater background or you. Don't get to look at the end result or what what is actually being a Brosseau. You just have to do your homework than As much as you can then show up on the day and be open to something being different or not knowing the answer and I think think in things that I've watched in the past one I would just obsessed about them for months and drive myself crazy after you saw your work of things that I wanted to fix and change your or do over again in an obviously you can't and and same thing with the people around me. I just drive them nuts with like ask him quite so we would just couldn't wouldn't it be allow you to like. Oh next time and I won't do that or get better the next time. I don't think it's necessarily a good idea. Just kind of seems to be what I think. I have a natural tendency to try to make things perfect or better looking or Change it for the sake of changing at arbitrary Changing making it look better in the things that I'm interested in an watching in film theatre and television role is the imperfect or the ugly part of it. I just know it myself. Especially while we're shooting I have no interest to see what is coming across I on the show. I asked guests a lot about their their kind of Aha moments. As young people the thing they saw experienced experienced a rat or whatever that made them pursue whatever creative field there in. I read that the moment you realize you wanted to be an actor wasn't in a theater or watching. TV But during basic training in the marine wasn't basic training we were was in the fleet Our Tiller was firing. White Phosphorus over a Motorman as a training exercise. Yeah it was a trade. Yeah and Got Corn is wrong and they they fired on us as opposed to the target so It was really windy and coupled with the fact that all of us were running away from it all away from it because if it touched you would burn you in. Yeah and that was kind of my first experience with Oh like Even though I'm young young could die and the two things that I wanted to do was I wanted to smoke and Be An actor that didn't have any relation to each other. Never really smoked cigarettes. I WanNa let's see what really WanNa see what that is like killed. Let me kill myself. Yeah it seemed like a good idea at the time and then you've got injured right and and didn't stay in the marine. No yeah I broke my sternum and had that not happened and had the marines. WORKED OUT Would you have ended up where you are for now. Do you think. I don't know it's hard to say the I mean. I didn't WANNA go like being a civilian again and all kind of getting my civilian privileges. It was like a hard thing to swallow especially when they were kind of overseas doing their job. And I wasn't like I was here in New York at acting. School like that was kind of a really difficult transition and I would say I still regret not being able to go go through the fall enlistment. Yeah well with my with that specific group of people. I mean like there's no what it's all about at that. Yeah Yeah Yeah there's no like You kind of joined for whatever reasons and all kind of had reasons but as soon as you kind of get in with that group of guys you kind of forget about the outside. I remember very specific moment of being a Chow Hall and watching President Bush than being like our military's in a hi State of alarm Mike Really. We're on red alert. You know. I'm here eating eggs right now. and thinking about getting a second helping of potatoes like where the the outside world seems something completely disconnected and we wanted to go and do our jobs with this group of guys and the idea of not being with them through. That is like there's there's no way to describe. And where did they deploy to They went over. They did a WESTPAC can of Iraq and Afghanistan. And now that you're an actor in and you're on in casts and does it. Is it hard for you not to feel as cast get together and feel all part of this group and like you don't know what you're talking about I. It was in the Marines with this unit that I felt that was feeling close to people. I think when I got out I had a really strong sense of entitlement about being in the military and I cannot and adjusting into civilian life in getting really aggressive with civilians about like. What are you complaining about getting in line for a lot But since I don't really I think that's I've been fortunate enough to find acting to be able to find the language to express that so I I feel like I haven't gotten started to calm down a little bit and no longer to judging civilians millions will there's also right there's also a strong connection between the military. I think in theater acting and just the you know in that band of brothers kind of way. Yeah Yeah But oh yeah that there's You know you're trying to accomplish a mission that's greater than yourself. It's it's not really about you. You have to know your role within a team you know you have to be intimate with people in a short amount of time and the stakes are really high. The pressure is really high. Obviously life or death circumstances. Don't really compare it to you. Know bad crafty but still the sentiment of trying to accomplish something. That's is not about one specific person and in putting your trust with another people in the discipline. Self maintenance applies. Well Adam driver. It has been a pleasure meeting. Thanks for having me. Adamant drivers nominated for best actor for his role in mirrored story coming up next the Oscars. That's what we came to. You never won an Oscar and it's a damn shame he's the most I enduring star in Hollywood recognized all over the world immortalized in gold. But this Guy Oscar well. He was apparently great friends with John. Wayne mm-hmm he's supposedly taught. Rudolph Valentino detangle. He's a bit like a forest gump. The real man behind the statue. That's next on studio three sixty two years ago. I was looking on the Internet and I saw these intriguing images that looked like a sci-fi set and eight people on red jumpsuits in front of this glass pyramid and was shocked to learn that this wasn't a science fiction movie it was real and I found out that so many of these people were still alive if I was determined to tell their story. Matt Wolf is the Director of the documentary spaceship Earth which premiered at Sundance Twenty twenty spaceship Earth is about in one thousand nine hundred one in science experiment. We're eight biospheres. went to live sealed inside an enormous terrarium in the Arizona. Desert with a miniature replica of Earth's ecosystem they called it biosphere. You're too it's an inspiring story about what small groups of people can achieve when they put their minds together towards a common goal and that idea extends to how Matt worked with his own small team. Making film is really about problem solving and putting together a puzzle and it takes all sorts of creative minds to do that. It's something he could only achieve with the help pox so much of the collaborative work I do is remote this a lot of communication. I mean I'm going back and forth with my collaborators all day constantly so I'm reviewing music composer or looking at new motion graphics. Somebody's uploading new Q.. Sheet for me to look at and to see the latest creative assets that have been completed we were this small group that brought together are diverse skills and interests and our goal is to tell this story that's been mostly overlooked and forgotten jocks helps filmmakers makers and their teams make their best work. You can learn more about how your team tease dropbox to bring great ideas to life at dropbox dot com slash film Three Sixty we are devoting this whole our studio three sixty two the Oscars. It's officially really the Academy Awards but people all call it the Oscars because of that statue which hasn't changed a bit since the late. Nineteen Twenty S. The abstracted art deco figure plated in gold. But those packs. Those is those shoulders. They came from a real guy and his name. Name was not Oscar posed. GRUNER has the story. They called him India and Mexico. He's kind of a big deal. His really was Amelia Fernandez and he was one of Mexico's greatest directors Jacana losses like the story the dog selected ratty me he died in nineteen eighty six and his home in Mexico. City has been turned into a museum. Christabel Arias Gomez is the historian there when Religio is sunette persona persona. He leaned you is a sacred figures like he's already already made it a deep history for all the great work. He's accomplished together with his muse. Dolores del Rio and his cinematographer. Gabriel Figueroa Fernandez. Meet some of the best films from the Golden Age of Mexican cinema. Emilio Fernandez led big life and he told some big stories well. He was apparently great friends with John. Wayne he told John Steinbeck the story that became the novella the Pearl he supposedly taught to Valentino to Tanger He's he's a bit lack of forrest. GUMP deloris Tierney teaches film at the University of Sussex and she wrote a book about Fernandez and she believes some of his stories as for the story the post for the Oscar. She finds it persuasive. This one seems to be quite true because there are a number of things the point to its veracity. For example Fernandez had a great physique a legendary physique according to many of his biographies tyranny has a photo Fernandez that was taken when he was young. He standing in swim trunks and he kind of looks like the Oscar under very broad chest very slim waist very similar to the Oscar statuette even his nose seems kind of Oscar. Like not broad not not not thin. A kind of distinguished knows I'd say and Fernandes have that same bearing that way of thrusting his shoulders back it. Don't put us macura. Booster don't put Atletico instead a robust politic figure he went to the military academy and so he had a unique type of body a body that was very unusual for people to have at at the time. So obviously that's what he was chosen to be the model for the Oscar. It's kind of funny. How it all happens? So here's the story. Fernandez grew up in Mexico and in nineteen twenty three when punter via was killed for Nida's dropped out of military college to join the rebels when they lost he got twenty years years in prison. He only escaped because he jumped the border and he landed in Hollywood at that time in the Mid Twenty S. It was just a little movie town but Lucky for Fernandez. There were lots of rules for Mexican extras and Mike Hollywood itself Fernandez had some big ambitions. He kind of realized that he wants just to be a filmmaker so he said he was learning his trade and he would pay extra for their course if they got a call to a movie for. I didn't know a dollar a day. He's I'll I pay you two bucks. I want your coal and then in one thousand nine hundred ninety eight when he was working on the movie Ramona he laid eyes on Laura. Estonia Alerts Doria was also from Mexico but she was way out of his league. She came from old money in Mexico City and she was already a star. So you want in fact. That's her voice. You hear right there haw and then one day on the set of Ramona. She noticed him Alenia stolen. Carlos extraordinariness was sitting with the extra so the dancers bench and the LAWRENCEVILLE radio gets up point so him and says to her assistant. I forgot my code at the other end of the studio. Delia is saying this tells that Indian to get my coat. That was the moment he took his nickname. Aline deal. It was technically true. Fernandez was half kickapoo. Do on his mother's side but it wasn't exactly a compliment now. Here comes the funny coincidence at the same time that Amelia Fernandez was mooning over. Dolores are still Rio. Dolores del Rio was about to become engaged. Mgm Art Director. Cedric Gibbons Cedric. Gibbons was one of the three dozen founding members of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and sciences and it was his job to design an award that they could hand out he'd already sketched an idea but he needed a statue not a drying so he asked the sculptor George Stanley to make it in three dimensions. And this is where Fernandez enters the picture. Some stories say gibbons happened to have Fernandez casting testing photo on his desk other stories say Dolores. Del Rio tipped him off but in all the stories when Gibbons Oppress Fernandez to ask if he'll pose elseneer the apples apples and Lyndale refused. He refused to post for the sculptor because he had to do it in the nude he was a little bit of A bit of a prude. A prude food with a huge crush. Yes Gillian you're in your own carrying your own insurance. Everybody knew that Alenia Fernandez. This was fond of delores. Del Rio that he kind of had a thing for her. Does this dollars to go for everything. Comes into place. And it's Dolores. Del Rio who goes to Amelia Fernandes demand this and asks will you please both for the sculpture so he can finish the trophy. That did the trick. Fernandez posed Stanley sculpted and and they made a mold. They sent that to California brass foundry in the time since then more than three thousand Fernandez indices have been cast buffed and dipped in gold Eventually both Fernandez went back to Mexico. Fernando started working as a director and window real life in Hollywood fell apart Fernandez offered in her role. They made many movies together but the greatest of them all was Maria Candelaria. Fernandez wrote it for del Rio as a birthday gift WBT and in the role he wrote for her. She's an indigenous woman essay India in some ways. It's like the Oscar story in the movie movie. Maria Candelaria poses for artist. Except this time when the artist asks Maria Candelaria to post nude she refuses and she doesn't budge the movie when the poem door at Cannes in nineteen forty six as for the Oscar. Fernandez never did get to take one home. They're posing gruner as a producer at Cayenne. KNX SEATTLE. She produced that piece for us in two thousand fourteen. And you can see what Emilio Fernandez looked like at three sixty dot org as for how the statue got to be called Oscar. Nobody really knows this this year. The academy nominated Quentin Tarantino for three. Amelia's I mean Oscars best picture best director and original screenplay all four once upon a time in Hollywood all Tarintino films are about other movies and this one especially so right down to the title it is an Omar to the Italian talion director. Sergio Leone and his films once upon a time in the West and once upon a time in America and in turn Tina's movie Leonardo DiCaprio. Oh plays a Hollywood actor on a downhill career slide. Who Stars in some very Leoni? Ask Italian Westerns. Sergio who showed you couple Capucci. Who and WHO's at the second best directive Spaghetti Westerns in the whole live look new? It's called Nebraska Gin and because me he's considering you back in two thousand ten I asked Quentin Tarantino about how seeing Sergio Leone is movies as a young man affected. Oh very profoundly family. I mean you know it's funny. I don't think I knew Sergio Looney by name at that time but they would say getting Westerwelle Duck you sucker came out from the man that brought you good in the bad and the ugly here for a few dollars more. I WanNa see that Because my mom actually had a huge crush on clint eastwood at that time so we wouldn't saw all of his films when you where eagles dare and the dollars movies You know they became touchstones for me. And it was only years later that I realized how much I respond to the actual the style of them. But actually there's some of the first movies. I remember seeing in the theaters. And as far as I'm concerned. They really created modern filmmaking. They he took film making out of the fifties and out of the early sixties and really introduced and then followed by Sam Peckinpah and the wild bunch they introduced us to modern filmmaking. They are the first first news now. The way we cut to music movies cut to music before they were they were they were not rhythmically where we violence. Yeah and the way we we do violence. I mean I've I've suffered for a long time. I might have gotten over it. Finally but I've suffered forever for surgery. Only itis where you know. I can't introduce a character unless I spent fifteen fifteen minutes doing it and making it a huge operatic Aria as are introduced or the some setpiece right in pulp fiction. The one thing about the absolutely thrilled me at the time and I never saw talked about much and I still think about sometimes is the moment win Thurman does the don't be a square air and she with her fingers makes a little square in mid air. And you you animate that which was just this sort of thrilling? Wait a minute. This is more or or less realistic movie. And he suddenly done this. Bizarre Cartoon Hallucinatory think and then doesn't return to come on man his Co.. Get a state. He can get a steak here Daddy Al don't ask you kitty cat. Are you tempted attempt to do things like that. and kind of color outside the lines all the time when you make movies e and we know the thing to you know to me. The thing that made that cool was I didn't do anything like it again yes And when you see something like that and it works when you pull it off when you pull out his own yeah. That's exactly I. I A wink is a good way to. I also described it like a kiss It just gave the audience a little smooch. The animated section and kill Bill. You know similar serves a similar function. I had to fight not put that in the trailer and yeah no no no. It's coming then. It has no function. At all. Pulp Fiction famously. Resurrected John Travolta's career. And you kind of did the same for Pam Grier in Jackie Brown and and in Kill Bill but you talked about the late David carrying. Let's listen to a scene from that film one of those films rather when he's confronted by Thurman you and I have unfinished business. Baby you ain't kidding you said that's your personal movie or did at the time Really GonNa tell you why I said. I'd like to hide in plain sight. Because I'm an ex girlfriend. Who tried to kill it once again? No it's it's you know it's it's a personal story brought to crazy ethological physical comic book Amazonean passage all of your films to lesser or Greater. Degrees are about movies. Yeah no no well well. I am a genre filmmaker. I like working inside a vision. I like working personally from my heart inside of his genre because that way I can reveal myself but I can reveal myself without revealing myself. I can hide in plain sight. I do genre story. I'm going to tell my story I'm GonNa tell whatever important going on with me at the time but now it's I don't want you to know what's going on with me at the time but if I put it inside of his genre now my my close friends might know. But then I get to actually relate personally but I'm still telling an exciting tale one way or the other well. Painting got to a point one hundred years ago a little more than a hundred years ago where good serious ambitious paintings were all about art and suddenly instead of just being about making pictures. Maybe that's where you are in the history sentiment. Well Yeah but at the same time though I mean on one hand. Jackie Brown isn't about cinema. It's about these characters but yet I'm not afraid of genre and so I make it this almost love letter. You're right blaxploitation movies right. It's not a blaxploitation movie. There's nothing exploitive about Jackie Brown at all. Well what's a blaxploitation. Movie in quotes is very much so but I you know I think I think there's going to be a part of A. I think there's going to be part of of my cinema. That will always have the quotes around it because I'm not afraid of cinema. I Love Love Cinema. I'm not trying to make cinema disappear you know. Could you imagine an author having read too many books. No or alluding to Shakespeare to Dickens is or whatever yeah no I love cinema I have no problem basking in cinema and its history with my stories. Tino's latest movie about movies. Once upon a time in Hollywood was nominated for ten Oscars including acting awards for the two main stars. Leonardo DiCaprio and Brad Pitt. But if you happen to watch the movie on TV you may not be hearing Brad Pitt's actual voice the whole time because Tarantino scripts are famously foul mouth and broadcast unacceptable as is all the streets when Rick. Don's got a fucking shotgun. I'll tell you that right back in the two thousands. We talked with voiceover actor who has a specialty dubbing over the smutty lines of Brad Pitt. Basically this he's in hot water. He's trying to explain himself. He's lying so you gotta take all those emotions motions all what's going on and put it into just one frigging seem My Name's Mark Sussman. I'm from Studio City. I'm a comic actor the studios does call me in to take out the bad language for TV and airplanes. Saying it's GonNa Take Jerry Uh for the gun jerry. What's IT GONNA take for you to give it to me and not to another these guys with a frequent these not even when important frequently? Why shouldn't bite my debt to not give you the gun? I used to do a lot of acting when I was younger. Like twenty one jump street and I could go way back like the first thing I did. It was like highway to heaven. I used to think as like oh they just kind of like what the frick you know. Then they superimpose at one word but actually if you see it on TV or something. It's a whole sentence that I'm doing so that's why I like the challenge doing like the entire paragraph or like. Oh great I get to do all these lines. I'm such a jerk jerk. Give The gun to Leo. You'll get down to marginalise frigging you see you see and even that what you know what I mean what what flick flick crazy break. I wish I talk like that in real life. My mom would be very proud of me. Actually I caught myself one time. Like oh frick. And they're like you know. What am I like Little House on the prairie or something? What's going on if I have to go in and I have to take out the bad language at a specific movie? I'll just watch that movie over and over again and watch the scenes where they cuss in it over and over again and then I'll tape it then when I'm driving the studio I'll listen to it and headphones over and over again also. I always look for a specific physicality you know. That's really important to me. Because in order to embody character in order to give a voice to a character you have to physically embodied the character. It's not from the neck up. It's the whole thing even if people don't see it so with Brad Pitt. The way I got him down for fight club and stuff I know is that he looks lips a lot and that gives his like that's is how he is Jewish. Brad Pitt. You know what I mean. I can't pay you. We need the bride. See his voice kind of deep so I just go down here like this. We you need a ride. We need a fricken ride. You know. And he's kind of surfer Kinda like that Kinda guy and he also has a raspy voice. He's very into his lips. I feel that yeah. I don't think it's I don't think it's a lesser art form. I think it's a different art form. Just like acting or painting painting or voice over work if you have an ability and you can do it and you're good at it. It's just like painting being in front of the Camera Benedict Yalla Ben Yehuda produced our story at KPCC in Pasadena. The Real Brad Pitt was nominated for an Oscar this year for his role in once upon a time in Hollywood by the way at a party during a Hollywood awards weekend years ago. I stepped on Brad. Pitt's foot accidentally but hard. His bodyguard was pretty unhappy. Coming up is a very tough. He's not easy working with him. Why Antonio Banderas keeps returning the longtime collaborator? Who discovered it? He managed to bring out of me that I didn't even royal inside. The Oscar nominated actor on his complicated relationship with Pedro Almodovar. That's next on three sixty studio three sixteen There was in nineteen eighty. It was nineteen. I was working that time of the National Theatre in Spain. I got long hair and mustache light. Beer that's the actor Antonio banderas talking about meeting this guy in Madrid. A young film Dong Director Name Pedro Almodovar and I was outside of the theater in a coffee shop with some of the other actors of the play and this Mang when we read briefcase appear over that sit with is without even introducing himself news of members of the company and and so he started throwing. These model was very funny. I don't remember why he talk loud. He was ingenious fast. Use a lot of irony army and certain cynicism to as well after twenty minutes of a giving these only. He stood up to leave the he looked at me. Says you should do movies. Romantic phases should be in movies. Go by a he left and can I ask her somebody who is guy and they said to me his name is bill. Who are he made one movie and he will never made another one matt? I saw him again lega three or four weeks. After that he came to see the play and at the end they came to my restaurant room when he offered me a movie called Labyrinth of passion and I at the time I I never did a move before so I said to him. Basically I'm here actor. I have never done a movie. I don't know if I can answer to expectations I do theater. You'll be fine and movie I would enact you. Don't worry everything's fine okay. Sure since then Antonio Banderas Pedro Almodovar have made a bunch of movies together. Five pretty much back to back in the nineteen eighties in Spain but then a two decade hiatus while bond eras was pursuing his Hollywood career Philadelphia with Tom. Hanks Vida The mask of Zorro. The spy kids movies puss in boots and on and on but once again he has reunited with the director who discovered him for last year's terrific film pain gene and glory. which is their eighth together? It was nominated for an Oscar for best international film and Bandera for best actor. He plays this older under complicated film director. A character closely based on Almodovar the Almodovar 's character and painting glory has medical problems Heroin inhabit flashes back a lot to his childhood and reunites with long lost friends and lovers and collaborators. Over the course of the film I would describe the film film ascend the story of a man who is an artist who is a movie that actor who actually is going back in time in order to close Oh certain Winston were left open to reconciliate himself to come to terms with accepting people and And basically the movie is that in the middle of that these reflection of art movies in particular and our lifestyle right you to have known each other for for almost forty years so was playing this character inspired by him this version of him when he came to you and said hey you WANNA do. This was that enticing facing scary awkward. What all of all of it well? It was relieving to me because I the last movie I did was nine years ago. It was ski nine leaving this ghastly weird vengeance movie about a plastic surgeon Roy Woah all wheel. I'm before that for twenty two years within a word to yes so I arrived to the skin I live in and I'm going to go back to ninety is because the creation of this character started there without even me knowing you know when I got there at the rehearsal is one of those movie director who rehearsed and rehearsed for a long period of time. We just weeks yeah. Month seemingly proud principal photography Bray arrived there after two twenty two years in America you you know I have learned a bunch of things better. You know I just behaving in front of the camera in a different way more secure. I can use my voice. His way in an after grownup they know exactly and so after week of rehearsals. It to me you know all of those things is there. I cannot use those things that are not really for me. So where are are you at the time. Instead of actually answering the question will try to answer that question. I thought Oh my God why he so harsh me me you know I am GonNa all my bath I can just GonNa use you know on the things that I have learned to find my car and you know but you know it creates tension on the set it anyway. We finished shooting and then I saw the movie in Toronto Infrastructure. And I saw it and I couldn't believe that he managed to bring out of me etc edited that I didn't give annoy at inside so at that point I said Oh I think I should be able to be more humble than that I should open my ears and my eyes and listen to people that AH especially people that I trust and trust paramore is to move within one was forty years ago I might GonNa have an opportunity to work with him and a decade they later and there were two came one day that he called me on the phone. He's I'm GonNa send you the call pain and glory and you're GonNa find a bunch of for for references that have to do with our live you know in the eighties movies that we did at that time and you're gonNA find very Cut there I saw. Aw I called him after they describe in loved it and I said listen ongoing Glean I am not gonNA use all the tools that have been using this. Yeah I wanted to start something absolutely neil. I want to start from scratch with you and I wanNA listen to you and I wanNA know basically. Why do you want to do this movie? And why you call me to play you so in terms of Character the character you play it doesn't particularly resemble resemble him in the way he moves talks. No no I you know he surrounded characterizing physicality of it you know the head is very similar to the head uses. You know the the costumes callers. He got an exact replica of his parliamentary right but then he came to the pointing which he said to me one day under her save. You WanNA use some of my money realism for the country. You can do in there. I WANNA stop. I don't think they I should do that. I think I should create a tiffany site out. If I just try to imitate you is going to be a performance. Any mediation when I don't think the right way late to attack these. WE'RE GONNA lose points right. We should just do another deborah creation there and he says okay so we started just working in that aspect in a completely different way. How is working with him? The actual work on the set making the movie. How is that different with him than all the dozens of other directors you've worked with Petra Malory's take very tough night? It's not easy working with him. He's very demanding very meticulous. He knows exactly what. Oh he wants and he's not GonNa let you go in different directions. You can bring things but then you have to go and understand. Why why he's trying to do and getting party line with him? If you don't do that you have a hard time. Does he get better performances out of you than other directors. I think so I think so. But because he he doesn't allow you to go off the truth I mean and especially now I actually supposedly his age to moment when you get to a certain eight. Am in that place already. which is only space for the truth on newspaper? You know. Everything is looking is still searching for that because time is short. Yeah another thing. That is interesting. Is this character that you play Is Gay you are not right. But many of the characters you've played for for Pedro who is gay are gay. Because why don't know they don't have any problem with that. I never did have a problem to gay people now because I have the problem with that because straight people aren't supposed to play gay people these days. I don't know I receive an award in two thousand six by the Called the glad that word by the gay community because the way that I represented them right and I am very proud of yard and so I tried to do it with You know flair and you know try to just give my soul and my heart to them in a Hollywood you have been cast you are cast as variously asleep. This mysterious romantic leading man a lot and an Action Hero Zorro The expanded ables or spoofs of those. Like one of my favorite films of yours boots Spy Kids But then and so not to say your typecast but you know a lot of your films are those two kinds of characters whereas with Almodovar. There's this incredible range of characters. You've played over these thirty five. Forty years Ailing filmmaker kicking heroin mad scientist Gay terrorist is part of the attraction that you're going to get to do all kinds of the things that you can do with him. I mean it's almost as if you have two different careers you have the Almodovar career and the other career. No I don't know if that's the direction is for the Carter. I I recognize him payroll milord every lardy somebody I mean he's movies dinner phrase radical and the people actually also reacted in radical way. The people who love have people don't like the pera move on movies but there is something that anybody can. Actually they have to recognize. This is a guy with a tremendous trump personality and very unique that never betray himself is absolutely loyal bill to his style. He never win and said Oh. I'm going to just change. Might be a hack because your money offers from Hollywood who often from anybody. Anybody never accepted that. He has been there persistently for twenty one movies nonstop and that is nowadays especially is a virtual so I love to be there in that space that smell and taste lay truth truth artists you know and I I understand Dan. You know art in general on movies in particular day just serve many purposes in life and I have anything to against a movie that just pretend just to entertain right. which is you may have some of those? I made some of those of course because there are people that they love to go to the movie theaters after they've been working on entire week with girlfriends boyfriends and have a big bought Bob corn and enjoy two hours of entertainment and there are other people love to go to movies to explore about the humans and the complications of the soul and the depth of this all of the mankind. You know. They're all of those spaces. If you don't and try to just lie to the audience you find you know so. I have done all of those because I am an actor and that's what I am. I I love those actors that in the old old days in Spain they used to lay the circus. People I need to morning. They do a comedy and a ninety Douche expert and that's what they are and so. I tried to keep that in my mind. I don't want to become crazy when I talk about the creation career and sometimes the creation of career is you have to renounce an incredible amount of that you will love to but your agent says now you have to go here in these all the responding to beautifully so you should go in there but don't leave that you're gonna just make one break after the other in could be a very beautiful career. I know that that's their creation. Your career that's right and I like that. I like to be as an actor. I like to play a comedy. Sometimes I like to play to being before kids and at the same time I have to recognize that in Hollywood have a certain limited in my boss abilities because of my accent and you spoke no English whatsoever when you got to Hollywood and because we have arrived live there with thirty years old you know I am so these are the range of possibly to their half to play with US cards. I didn't have all the range of cars in my right. I only can receive these tank cars out of the maze. So how you play with that complicate and life is changing too at the same time and are now my body's asking me and my mind. You know that I would like to do movies. That are more ability deeper that I would relate to just reflect about life you know about relationships of certain events and probably Hollywood's. nope reminded me with that. So where can I find. I ain't going to find that in England. I'M GONNA find it in Spain in Europe. Im searching. I am noting Harry for anything. I've done one hundred twelve movies. I'M GONNA be sixty next year ear. I'm fine and move to London for years ago. Yeah I leaving Lundin and content and satisfied Antonio Banderas. This has been a pleasure. Thank you very very much. Thank you Antonio. BANDERAS was nominated for best actor for his role in pain and glory which was also up for best international feature film at the Academy Awards. And that's it for this week's program Ramp Studio. Three sixty is a production of PRI public radio. International in association with slight our production team consists of Jocelyn Gonzalez Andrew. Adam Newman Sandra Lopez. Montalva Evan Chung Lauren Hanson Sham. Kim Sally Saunders Tommy Zarian Morgan Flannery and I'm curt Anderson. He's very into his lips. I feel that thanks very much for listening. Are Public Radio Radio International next time on studio three sixty the magic that brought us Yanni and John Tash. I realized that if I was going to have a real full time music career that it was going to have to be something that the unlikely vehicle start him in the Nineteen Ninety S. PBS Pledge. Drive what I needed was something like P._s.. Special to make a whole bunch of loud noise. That's next time on studio three sixty.

Oscar Hollywood director Gabriel Figueroa Fernandez Academy Awards editor Quentin Tarantino Brad Pitt Antonio Banderas Pedro Almodov Del Rio Twenty Twenty Oscar Irishman Scorsese Guy Oscar Mexico Thelma schoon Antonio Banderas curt Anderson Maria Candelaria Marty I MCC
GSMC Baseball Podcast Episode 477: Will Tatis Jr. Outperform Soto?

GSMC Baseball Podcast

1:14:23 hr | 2 weeks ago

GSMC Baseball Podcast Episode 477: Will Tatis Jr. Outperform Soto?

"Golden concept in baseball podcast. We cover everything major league from spring training who the world theory. Got your favorite club. Cover from new york. Combatant to elan is the golden state media content. Baseball podcast hello. Everyone and welcome back to the gmc. Baseball podcast brought to you by gmc podcast network. I'm your host jack. I've got another wonderful show planned out. We finally have the season here and underway. It's a great feeling knowing that we will have full season baseball this year and things are starting on time this year as opposed to last year which when they started in the middle of july. I believe it was a very very different. Start day to what we're normally used to but hope everyone is doing well. I've got actually my family in town which has been super nice to have them here. I haven't been able to see them much lately. So having them in town for about a week has been a very very nice little break from the daily grind but nonetheless. We've got a lot to go over this episode. I just wanna get into some things and discussed you know the season and kind of the outlook that we have for this season the year. So i'll get right into it. And i jump right into any news. Going around the league. I'll do a recap of the first few days of the season in my next episode. So i'll touch on the major news headlines right now and like i mentioned i'll get into the nooks and crannies of the games of the season in the following weeks episode later on. I'll get into a little mixing and matching segment as get into reforming the al and nl divisions in place some hypothetical situations as to what some divisions could look like if certain teams were switched over into those divisions. Then get into predicting which offseason moves will pay off the most early on for some teams and as always be sure to stick around for the final segment today. Were all get into a fight. Or denied segment sharing whether i buy or denied the idea that fernando tatis. We'll have a better season than one so to this year. So a lot of things going on a jam packed episode. And i'm really excited to share with you. All i wanna kick it off with a little comeback story if you will or at least a potential comeback story as the former number one overall draft pick mark apple is attempting a comeback with the phillies mark. April i believe mark april. But apple's got a very interesting story he was a standout hit your at stanford. He was the sporting news pitcher of the year in twenty twelve as a senior. He gets drafted number one overall by the astros and twenty thirteen. And this might be a name that people remember. Especially if you're an astros fan because there was a lot of talk about who they were going to pick in that draft and they wind up going with apple and so on and so forth and it didn't really pan out the way. I think a lot of people had expected to. It didn't pan out the way that he had expected it to. We actually the following season in twenty fourteen. Two thousand fifteen early on in two thousand fourteen. Really he was starting to experience some elbow issues early on in mind you. He never had any problems in college. When he pitched at stanford everything was hunky dory. There was no problems and he was again. A very talented pitchers highly sought after prospect. And the astros. At the time we're using a very interesting pitching system which is called piggyback hitching system. And essentially what it is. Is starters have a normal routine start but then during their off days they could potentially come out of the bullpen and pitching relief and so that extra strenuous in that extra straining on his arm over time it. It greatly affected him and in the article. I was reading. He even discussing. He didn't necessarily blame it on That mu- that that kind of pitching style or that that pitching system if you will he more. So kind of said yeah. I was not used to that. I was. I was coming from college and i was used to just having the start once every five days or whatever and i was not used to having to start one day and then maybe come out of relief three days after the fact and again coming out of a start where you're throwing one hundred and twenty one hundred and twenty five pitches. That's probably a lot. That's probably a lot of stress on your arm and that's what those four days offer for to rest up to get ready to go back out on that fifth day and that's not exactly what he was doing. The astros not as much as he probably would have liked and actually the astros executives at the time or at least now they say this but they said at the time if they had known a little bit more about able they probably would not have drafted him number one overall in mind you. This was in two thousand thirteen so they didn't necessarily have spin right. They didn't have all these other statistics that they are starting to now kind of gauge. And really i would say evaluate pitchers with it's a very very different evaluation system today than it was seven or eight years ago and so nowadays and today they say yeah we had known back then all of the things that we know about pitchers probably would not have taken him first overall but then another thing that really kind of sent him star kind of Downward spiralling if you will he had an appendectomy before twenty fourteen and this is the big catch. The doctor had told him that he was not going to need any rehab. They said that the injury or the surgery would eventually heal itself naturally and so as a result he did not rehab it properly. What happened was he lost the ability to activate those lower abdomen muscles and so when he was pitching he wasn't using that lower part of his abdomen at all and again. He didn't rehab after that that surgery because he was advised to virginia against it by the doctors and as a result they were a long stretch a period of time that he was pitching without using any lower half of his stomach really again a lot of pitching is of that rotational movement up top. It's a lot of using your legs using your your ties to push off the rubber but then it is also a lot of torque and a lot of rotation from your upper body and a lot of it comes from your core strength and he really didn't have any lower court so that was a big problem he winds up getting trade into the phillies in two thousand fifteen continue to have elbow issues. He wound up getting surgery for some bone spurs. He also dealt with a lot of mental health problems because all that pressure all of that intensity of being that number one overall pick it started to weigh on him a little bit and he even sites that the pressure and the expectations to perform to that standard of a number one overall draft pick weighed on him heavily. And i could only imagine what that would be like. You have all of these expectations. These people are expecting quite a bit from you again. A number one overall draft pick in any sort of sport. You have a lot of eyes on you. You have a lot of attention and you're expected to perform at a very very high level and unfortunately that is not what happened. He slowly kind of started to get out of baseball. I believe he actually wound up exiting baseball completely when he was with the phillies around. Twenty seventeen or so he got into some other business ventures kinda just reading the article it sounded like he just enjoyed being a fan of baseball again but he said that when he would go to games and he would see his friends. That are still in the majors and he would go to the games and interact with them. He started to kind of think about the game as a player again he started and he process game during you know when he was watching in the stands as a fan he would process the game as he was a player still and always saying new himself. I wonder what i would do in this situation. I wonder what i would do here. And as a result he slowly but surely wanted to come back and now he's announced a comeback actually announced that the other day and the phillies have supported him. I mean the entire way through the new. Gm for the phillies is actually a stanford graduate. So he was very very supportive of having april comeback and it seems to be he seems to be in a better place than he probably was earlier in his twenties being that number one draft pick and things kind of falling apart very quickly from what it sounded like but hopefully he can work as back into maybe even an mlb roster and a rotation you know slowly but surely become a major league pitcher that would be a great great comeback story but we definitely have one on our hands with mark able but there's also been this concept that's been floating around potential for at least this this this this idea. I would say his started to kind of come around in baseball recently. And it's this potential of having to season one year. But what i mean by this is this. It comes from a story again. I read in the athletic. A great read written by the great peter gammons. And it's a very interesting concept. Basically what the concept is what it means is because of the lack of service time that a lot of these younger pitcher half and the lack of experience down the miners because there was no minor league season last year. A lot of these younger pitchers have not really hitched in high level competitive games and almost two years. Then you also have to look at the starters from last the major league guys. They're coming off a season where it was only a sixty game season so instead of starting thirty some odd games in the year. You're only starting ten or eleven and now you're getting re inserted back into playing one hundred and sixty two games this season. That's a big turnaround. That's a huge turnaround from going from sixty games to one sixty two in a of months and so what they're thinking is and what peter gammons was saying in this article is that bearish there might be some teams use certain pitchers for certain parts of the season so they might use younger pitchers who have enough Service time under their belts who play at the major-league level to try and save those other experienced talented pitchers for down the road later on in the season so these other pitchers are not wearing themselves out and potentially coming up with injuries as we get further and further into the year and there is a fear that i mentioned that these these younger pitchers that might have to pitch for the first part of the season or whatever it might be. They haven't had enough time in the majors themselves and so that could be detrimental to their development and it just a concept. I'm not really sure if it's going to actually play out but you can kind of see where where where the idea of to seize them one is coming from. You have basically two seasons within that one season where we're gonna use. These pitches for the first part that we're gonna use these pictures for the second part. Some teams are going to do it. Some teams are not going to do it but the big issue that also comes up with this is the issue of service time for some players. Some minor leaguers might be called up sooner than they should be and others might be sent back down and it could affect their service time in the long run in their opportunity to be free agents. And we've already seen some of that early. On right. Jared kalinic for the mariners. Bobby junior for the royals. Both of them have been playing great spring training. And which somehow get sent back down into the miners and kalinic is worried. The same thing. That's going to happen to him. And so that is another issue in itself with this is that some guys might be taken out of the lineup. Away from their service time at a certain point to a yes. Give those other pitchers the time and the opportunity to pitch later in the ear. But it could also save some teams from having to deal with free agency discussions and the all sorts of other bargaining incentives. If you will down the road and so it could set some players back for their service time in order to allow them to make the proper money they deserve. So it's going to be intriguing to see what teams do this year. I think it's going to go in a lot of different directions. I think we're going to just have to see how guys bodies respond the first couple of weeks and that that again kind of hitting the ground running if you will with everything that's going on and just with everything in terms of the in the pandemic but also the long layover that we've had and the players have had and not to mention coming off a year where you're playing a hundred fewer games than you're used to stephanie. Going to be a little bit of a shock effect. There's gonna be some sort of shock effect going on there. But i wanna now move out of that. I know we've gone through a couple of stories pretty quickly. But i want to now move into another one. It involves the mets once again. They've emerged in the news but there's actually a little bit of. I don't want to say positively but there's definitely some great advancements in the right direction for this for this team for this franchise. Their new owner steve cohen. We all know because again he came on. After the wilpons gave up their ownership and cohen he- purchased a majority stake in the team in the offseason. He recently hired a law firm to investigate the work culture within the mets organization. And so right now. The law firm is investigating the team's handling of sexual harassment issues within the organization. And also discrimination problems as well so coen's honestly doing i think the right thing and i think he's. He's a fresh of breath. Air for the mets for about eighteen twenty years. They were kind of that team that there was a couple of years they were really good but for the most part they were not very good. And as a result you can kind of see that towards the end of the wilpon regime and all of a sudden into cohen's ownership time and ownership tenure. There was a lot of issues of weeding out the the personnel that were that was under wilpon earlier on and coen clearly trying to weed that out. He's clearly trying to change. The culture changed the perception and change things internally in the work environment and quite frankly. That's a great thing i mean. This is a team. That's had its fair shares of issues over the offseason right. I mean this comes. In reference to jared porter and the entire situation he had mickey callaway in the incidents that they had and also secretly. The club fired a minor league coach. And ellis after women had come forward saying he sexually harassed them in two thousand eighteen a believe it was three women that came forward about it. So right there there's again lots of issues. Lots of things that are going on and co is trying to nip that in the bud and i think that is exactly what he's trying to do and i think it's a great thing for them a as as an organization it's great it's a great thing for him as an owner to set that precedent and that kind of the bar if you will setting the standard and saying hey. This is not allowed. This is not acceptable. I'm going to weed out the problem. And i'm going to correct it in whatever way i see fit and i like that. I think that owner should do that. They should take issues. You know and and try and correct them again. You're the owner. You are the master of the operation. You're in charge of it all and so as a result you wanna have people enjoying where they work and that's gonna bring out the best of their work. Then you want to have the best kind of working environment and a lot of the game again. A lot of these claims a lot of these issues came under jeff. Wilpon ownership of the team in cohen has made it very clear that he wants none of this behavior it is completely unacceptable and he will not be tolerated under his ownership. And so i give a lot of credit for cohen and to cohen for trying to change the again the environment with the mets and internally and i think as a result that's going to transpire into how the team is viewed publicly on the outside and externally. I think that's going to be a big big big difference from what we were used to kind of viewing them as again a team. That probably is not the greatest ran organization a team. That's had a really really highs and then really really high highs and then really really low lows. So i think cohen is again a step in the right direction. And it's definitely going to be a nice new chapter for the mets but folks. I want to wrap up this first segment with some discussion on the universal and how it could have actually benefited the game more than people assume and how it could be implemented sooner rather than later because as we know that whole issue with the universal was all offseason long. That's all you ever heard about is a universal d. h. Going to happen and it also had a lot of kind of effects if you will on the free agency how teams are going to approach free agency because some players had played so well as just strictly the ages last year and then now teams are kind of having to reevaluate their rosters. They're going to need a new hitter. That's not going to happen this year and it was rejected due to the league trying to use the universal almost as a trade peace in exchange for an extended postseason the players association and the union. They felt that that was not acceptable that they should be two totally different subjects and two totally different conversations. If you will and there should not be this kind of back and forth trading this bargaining with one incentive over the other and so that's really why they nixed it is because they said hey. These are two different situations and so they did kind of do it to i think. Make the end. We'll be a little bit mad and they. They did exactly that. And many in the league i think they want to have the universal kind of change they want to have that you know implemented. They want to have that as part of a new roster spot there are some teams that wanted to stay the way that it is right now and a lot of people have asked. Well is it going to maybe to fruition at some point during the year this that and the other. There's no way they can change that immediately or like right now because a lot of these teams have their roster set a certain way and they would have to backtrack and change their rosters completely. It just wouldn't work it. It would not work and the issues surrounding. The universal gauge was also involving the payment of the players. That played that position. Because it's not seen as a legitimate everyday skilled position and so as a result of payment. What's going to be a little bit different and win the payment incentives for ages. Were kind of taken out of the agreement. That's when a lot of people kind of became a little detracted from the from the idea and the other thing that actually is kind of the bright side of this is that there is the collective bargaining agreement. That's coming up in december. It's going to be expiring. In december december one and so as a result. There's going to be a lot of discussion in the offseason winter meetings about what to do with the universal d. h. and i think that's where we might see a potential return to the universal d. h. Two thousand twenty two season. Because i'll have this conversation. They'll sit down the talk about it. And i think that there is going to be a wide level a wide ranging level of support for this in the long run because of the fact that they need something to kind of us as again. They're trying to make the game a little bit more action packed and having extra hitter in the line of is going to do just that but the other issue of the lack of the universal that people on the side that are supposed to foreign and supportive of it is that it jeopardizes the health of pitchers. And it's it's very right. I mean you. See all the time. And i've had a lifelong baseball fan. Lifelong baseball follower. I all the time batter goes in nine th hole. He's very very the very bottom of the lineup. You automatically know it's going to be an out the guy would be lucky and you're more shocked at the guy gets on base than if he gets out you're expecting him to get out but pitchers they hit a little dribbler second baseman. They're not really running. They just kind of trot. They don't even really make it down to first base half the time because they don't want to get injured and that makes sense and we've seen it in spring training already. Zach gallon who. I think i've mentioned it before. He could be incredible pitcher of potential. Cy young candidate down the road. And really i think the ace for the diamondbacks. He's gonna be out for a while. He had a stress fracture happen on his forearm while he was hitting and again. That could be a potential threat. For some of these pitchers it could threaten their health and as a result there could be some teams at a really really upset about that because they are literally putting their hit. You're out there in the line of fire and in the potential of getting injured. And if you don't do anything to minimize that then you're going to have yourself an issue defensively because now you're going to be out and injured and so i think that the universal h needs to go into effect sooner rather than later and it's not just a matter of the game and benefiting the game and speeding and whatever else it might be. It's the health and the safety of pitchers because again if this is happening already in spring training and we haven't even started the actual regular season. Imagine what's going to happen. Come july first and you see it. All the time of fastball. Gets away from a pitcher. It runs up on a guy's hands and he gets hit on his hand or just hit on his finger. That pitchers out for six weeks. Eight weeks with a broken hand or broken finger and again then you kinda go back and say well how could we have. How could can we avoided this. How could this have been avoided. Well it couldn't be avoided because you have no choice but to use the pitcher especially if you're in the nfl. And so i think ultimately there will be a very very big discussion about that in this offseason. And i think that we're gonna have kind of this thing where we see beach in twenty twenty. We go back to the normal way or the traditional way in twenty twenty one and then we revert back to universal d. h. in two thousand twenty two and then maybe moving forward. I really hope that just out of the safety of pitchers and also just make the game. A little bit more exciting. I'm not saying you have to choose the balls and you have to try and emphasize hitting home runs. But i think having that extra hitter it does shake things up a little bit and it makes baseball a little bit more interesting. I would say but that's also going to be very interesting to see how free agency if the the universal goes into effect next year how the nfl teams will then approach their free agency next year and their off-season and who they go out and pick up and who may be trade for who they tried to move over to a d. h. position. There's a lot of teams that could actually really benefit from having a d. h. You look at the mets. For example you put dominic smith over at first base then you take pete alonso over into a d. h. Bought not do that. i would. That would not be too bad at all. Same thing with the nationals. Right and i think that's maybe they're thinking is okay. We get kosh warmer now. Before the universal age goes into effect. We sign him. We re sign again after the off season. Because i believe he's only on for a one year deal then we can maybe try and keep them around to be that that d. h. And we won't have to worry about going out in free agency and looking for somebody so there's a lot of things at play in this. I hope that one day we do have a university. H but folks that is going to do it for us in this first segment but don't go anywhere because when i get back from the commercial break of dive into a reforming of the mlb divisions in the end the and what subdivisions divisions might look like. If they were rearranged folks. Stay right there. We'll be right back here on the gmc baseball podcast. The ultimate staffer everything sport the golden state media concept's ports pod cash. Should i say more from the nfl melby. The nba mma in all in here golden state media concepts sports bod calf. Listen welcome back the gmc baseball podcast track right now with you. All an inner first segment. I got in the latest news and some of the other interesting tidbits from around the mlb. But make sure you stick around for the final. Few minutes of the show today as i'll get into by it or deny and discuss whether i buy or deny the idea that fernando tatis junior will have a better season than one soda so make sure you stick around for that one but getting into this segment. I wanna dive into what the divisions in baseball would look like. It's some of the teams were switched around in the league and there was a little mixing and matching. So let's get into how these hypothetical divisions would look like and how the talent on those teams would stack up against each other in the division as well so into it. I wanna i wanna play out this high and again. These are all hypothetical situations right. I mean none of these are actually going to happen. None of these are going to come to fruition. These are just kind of fun. What ifs if some of these teams were to be insert divisions what kind of rivalries would form what kind of the outcomes there would be who would still be really good and who wouldn't be so on and so forth so the first one i wanna get into the nationals. Going into the east. This would be an interesting one for me. I know last year on opening day. The nationals opened up with the yankees. The yankees won in that game but i would love to see a nationals yankees back and forth throughout the entire season thing with even a nationals blue jays back and forth with how good the blue jays have gotten how much better they've improved their roster over the offseason. Same thing with the nationals. Right i mean. They're not too far behind. I would say the blue jays in terms of what they did to improve their roster over the off season. Obviously i think the blue jays have a lot more talent. Cross the board in terms of of of youth talent. But i will say there's a lot there's a lot more heavy hitters on the nationals than there are with the blue jays. There's it's more spread out for the blue jays. But it's more centralized for the nationals. If that makes sense. But i would also love to see kind of this. Young star started you. This young star studded battle between rafael devers. In one soto they would easily be the to kind of big time highlighting players that are young and under the age of twenty two twenty three in that division and it would be great to see the red sox in the nationals diverse risotto. That'd be a fun match up not to mention you also have the orioles in the nationals in the same division that would play out to be obviously a little rivalry the little battle of ninety five. That's the major highway that connects between baltimore and dc. They already have that kind of battle of the beltway series as it is so it would just be much more consistent and much more frequent Back and forth and kind of matchup that these teams would have so. I would love to see one day the nationals in the alias. I know that is probably not going to happen. But at the same time i think it would be very intriguing to see nonetheless so then another kind of hypothetical. What if if you will the white sox but when the central i think they would be super competitive in this division. And i know they're already going to be competitive in their division but i think they can be super competitive in the nl central if not even win the division right. I mean this is going to be. This could be a really fun kind of back and forth with their crosstown rivals and the chicago cubs white sox and cardinals. Battles would be really fun to watch. I think that again the white sox across the board. If they were to be in this division they would have probably the most talent across the board minus the cubs. I think the cubs have a ton of talent they just are under and they don't always perform at the level that they should and i think that the white sox on the other hand have guys that perform when they need to but again. The brewers interesting match. I know last year they kind of went back and forth and a couple of series again like i said the cardinals that would be very interesting to see what the white sox pitching would stand out so significantly and it would be incredible to see that pitching go up against headers like paul goldschmidt or nolan one. Aeronautical for the cardinals or guys like christian. Yelich for the brewers or even somebody on the reds like nicasio or mike. Newstalk is right. I mean that would be a fun pitching duel to witness and not to mention. You would have some serious. Mvp candidates in this division with yelich aeronautica of view they would be legitimate possible mvp contenders each and every single season if they were to be in that division so the white sox on the central would definitely make things a little bit interesting. I think and it would definitely shake things up a bit right. I mean i think you'd ultimately and and automatically have to have a little bit of competition between not just the cardinals come and brewers but now the white sox right it would kind of push the reds and the pirates down further into the bottom. But i think that there would be a good four way kind of battle between four legitimate teams and like i mentioned the cross town rivalry with the white sox and cubs imagine if they were in the same division right. I mean you don't really have that in many divisions in baseball minus the red sox and the yankees. They're the only ones that i would say. Are the major kind of the rivalry that are in within the same division. So i would love to see would love to see the white sox central than i would love to see the nationals in the in the al east but nonetheless probably not going to have that happen also getting into another team going into the no east. Now's the blue jays again. This is a team. That would compete. Well i think that they would definitely get burnt out by the end of the year. Because i feel that although the blue jays like i mentioned do have a lot of talent i still think that there is a much more talent in the middle east across the board with a lot of players and a lot of teams but also they have a lot of experience. Talent that know how to play throttle whole entire season think about the blue jays have a very young roster and they're all coming off a sixty game season so you can only imagine what that's going to do to just their rhythm how they feel for the game and everything else and not to mention being able to go an entire one hundred and sixty two game length and being able to withstand that grueling every day grind that you have to go through and so i think that the blue jays would maybe struggled a little bit in the nfl just because that is such a talented division. What it would be a lot of fun to watch them. Go against the mets go up against teams like the nationals or the braves and i think that again a young team they could really battle it out and they were be some interesting battles with say the braves in the blue jays. I mean that would be very interesting battle. I think you know the break. Definitely have the one up on them with the pitching but the heading for the most part. It's pretty balanced for both teams. I think the braves. Maybe you give them a little bit of an of an added edge just because now they've got ozone and they've got freddie freeman but the blue jays did everything they could to get guys and i think that the blues and this might sound a little weird but i think the blue jays across the board have much more talented young players in the braves. Do i think really you look at all these and you look at a kunia junior and maybe even max freed but after that. You don't really have a whole lot of major major major talented players. Ian anderson shore. You look at the blue jays. You've got boba you've got. Bg oh you've got vlad junior you know you've got guys like lawrence gurriel to the age of thirty same thing with t. oscar fernandez so you got a lot of young players on that team. That can do a lot of interesting things not to mention. We forget about marcus. Simeon on the blue jays to he has an interesting dynamic and so i think they could really be competitive in the l. Nfl east but at the end of the day. I think that they would run into a wall at some point and these other teams just think built for the duration of the season. I think that they're a teams that are able to withstand this one hundred and sixty two game grind because they've got talented guys in reserve roles that can step up. I don't really think that the blue jays have that they've got guys will come off the bench and make a major impact and so i do see them kind of struggling some but it would also be fun to see the rematch of the nineteen ninety. Three world series with the blue jays and the phillies. So that would definitely be a very intriguing battle nonetheless. But i want to get into this next team because i think that quite frankly would really shake things up in the west but i still think that it would be hard for this team to compete with the top two teams the astros going to the nfl. Wes this would be very interesting if this were to play out. I mean lots of dodgers and astros showdowns. And i personally love that right. I mean you you. Everybody is witness kind of back and forth that these two teams have had since the world series. You know since the entire cheating scandal came out the joe kelley clean of face the pouting face that he made everything else all of that. There's kind of deep seated. I think rivalry or at least as unspoken rivalry if you will between those two teams because of all of the matchups. They've had in the world series and not to mention. I think that the astros they would still have a hard time with the dodgers right now. Because they're just a different team than what they used to be what it would be interesting to see. Go up against the padres. Who i do continue to think that they would struggle against be very interesting to go up against the giants. I think that that's where the competition would really heighten for the giants if the astros stepped in because in all honesty. Yeah the astros on paper are more talented but the giants are a. I would say more of a winning team. They know how to build winning ball clubs and as a result i would see the giants and the astros making a little bit of an interesting kind of back and forth. If you will you know. Possibly i don't know maybe some rivalries here and there again. The astros on paper look more talented. But i think the giants could pull together a couple of winning seasons now. Speaking of the giants i would love to see if they did a little flop and they went over into the west. Because i think that this would add a whole lot of competition atop the leaderboard for the athletics. And for the astros i think the giants could give both teams or run for their money and again the the giants for the most part aren't average team but they could definitely stand out against teams like the angels like the rangers you know like the mariners that are right now. Not where they should be. I mean maybe maybe the angels are the exception to that. Because i do think that the angels could be a really really good team. They need to put together and again. I'm going to get into it in this third segment here in a little bit about who i think could really be a player. That's gonna do really really well early on for the angels. But i think that ultimately the giants being that aol west it would make things a little bit more interesting for the battle for the first place. It would also make things interesting for the wild cartoon because let's face it right now because there's no competition from the bottom part of the division. If the astros were to be i the athletics would be automatically second. They would at least be fighting for a wildcard spot. It's not like in some other divisions where if your second you can maybe not even be clinging to a wild card spot and so i do think that the giants would make things very interesting. They would shake things up a little bit and so i would love to see them in the al west. I think that would be a very interesting thing. Not to mention the giants. They've had many battles for themselves. They've gone back and forth and in in previous world series not to mention it. Also have the giants and the angels world series rematch of two thousand and two so you see these little rivalries that could pop up and start to bud if you will but again. This is probably not going to ever happen unless some other team were to come into the mlb and they would have to move some team around what. I don't think that the mlb is really worried about expanding right now because he definitely have bigger fish to fry but now i wanna get into another team that actually within the nfl and this would never happened. Never happened what the nationals. In the west that would be very interesting very unconventional. But i would love the battles between the nats and the padres the nathen the dodgers. You'd have some really really good pitching and hitting going going up against some other good pitching and hitting and honestly i think that the nationals pitching could hang with the dodgers hitting end the padres hitting view. Have a healthy shirts. That you have a healthy strasbourg. You've got patrick. Corbin there as well you know and not to mention john. Lester signs over the offseason. So you've got guys that can pitch and that could definitely go up against a team. Like the dodgers of the padres that have a ton of hitting across the entire board and i do think the nationals match pretty well with these teams and again they would probably dominate the giants who would dominate the diamondbacks. They would definitely dominate the rockies. But they're pitching would hold their own. I think the hitting would definitely come probably comes second for the nationals in that situation just because they don't have nearly the amount of talent that the dodgers and padres have again. The dodgers padres have a ton of super talented players and they have a multitude of them. Were the nationals. They got a couple really really really talented players. That could go up against a couple of guys on the dodgers but then after a while it just drops off. There's no real drop off for the dodgers same thing with the padres. There's no real drop off for them. And so i would personally love to see at nationals. Nl west kind of battle if you will again probably won't ever happen but it's fun to wish and kind of think about what it would look like if they were to go clear across the country and they would go into the and finally i want to discuss the dodgers in the al east. Enke's dodgers would be such a fun match up to watch not to mention you know the dodgers being a team. That was once out east before they became the la dodgers when they were in brooklyn. And we'd probably reignite some old rivalries. I know a lot of the players and personnel. Were probably not around anymore From those days back when the dodgers and the yankees were in the same city what now. You might be very interesting to see them do that. And the dodgers pitching would be tough against the yankees hitting. It would be really hard. And i don't think the yankees pitching could go up against the dodgers hitting very well so it would be an interesting concept to see would be kinda fascinating to watch. How the dodgers would go up against other and not to mention. You've got the red sox. They're so that's a little rivalry and rematch from the world series. So that would be. Even you know even more fun to watch but i would definitely love to see the dodgers and the alias out of all these teams. Though i would definitely say the giants in the al west. Make the most sense. It would be the most competitive and it would be probably the most exciting to watch because you would have now a third team get inserted into that division. That could really shake things up between the athletics and the astros and the athletics and astros might not feel so safe knowing that again. There's going to be a thirteen there but the likelihood of any of these teams twitching around or any of that happening very very slim right. I mean the last time we saw that was when the astros flipped over from the central over. The ao west. And we haven't really seen that since we have not seen anything like that sense. And i don't think anything like that will happen anytime soon unless again some team expanded into the mlb and they have to move guys around. They have to move teams around and other divisions to make it even what. I don't see that happening so it's fun to watch though it's fun to think and it's kind of exciting the cd's hypothetical situations and not to mention. I'm a big rivalry guy so it's always fun to see what kind of rivalries could form if there were to have some teams that would go into other unconventional divisions and what kind of matchups and kind of showdowns would start to come to the surface in really the forefront for people to watch. It would be a lot of fun but folks that's gonna close things out here for us in our second segment on the gmc baseball podcast. Thanks again for tuning in as always coming up after the commercial. I'll get a witch. Offseason picks will pay off early on in this season and could really help a team. Make a big run towards the playoffs. This year spent a lot of fun so far but we got a lot more to go. So don't change that channel. We'll be right back here on the gmc baseball podcast. Tired to the vast jungle of podcast. Ma listen close and here without you there. The podcast network that covers just about everything that you've been searching the golden state media kat ups podcast network is here nothing less than our podcast blitz with endless hours of podcast cupboards from news sports music fashion cooking entertainment and the twelve though much more so stop flirted around and go straight out to the golden state media concepts podcast network guaranteed to build. That podcast is whatever it may be visited at. www dot gs mc podcast dot com. Follow us on facebook and twitter and download on itunes dow cloud and google play. Welcome back to the gmc baseball podcast. Great to have you all here still with me today. Jack right now again in the previous segment a jump into discussing what some divisions would look like if certain teams were switched switched around moved into other divisions. But i want to now get into which offseason moves could really pay off early on for some teams in this season and could have enormous implications for teams later on the season making a playoff run and whatever else it might be because there are some players that quite frankly. I think i don't. I don't want to say that they were undervalued but the moves were not really looked at in the same regardless. I think they should have been and there's some players that have been playing really well down in spring training and we're playing well in spring training and we're off to really great starts early on and so. I think that we should definitely look at these moves a little bit more as we get into the first month or so in the season because they could actually be the difference for a couple of teams in the first one i want to discuss is jock. Peterson going the cubs in the offseason. I personally when that first happen. I was not very impressed. I was like hey whatever. It's literally just replacement for college for birth and outfielder. that's an average builder. That's got a powerful bat and hits a lot of home runs. It's about so i was. You know again. Not very impressed with it. But he's clearly proven a lot of people wrong. I mean he was off to a great start in spring. Training was batting over. Five hundred at one point had five homers nine. Rbi's had well over twelve hundred opie. S i mean. That's what he does. He brings a lot of power into the lineup. I know last year he did not have that great of a year. Only at about seven home runs but the year before that he had thirty seven home runs and the year before that. Yeah thirty eight. He had a thirty seven home. Runs in twenty or thirty six home runs and twenty nineteen and they had twenty five home runs in two thousand eighteen. So he's coming back to back years of twenty five plus homers and then eight and then also an eight hundred plus s so right there that tells you his capabilities and what he's do not to mention. The cubs were seventeenth as a team in home runs last year. The only had three players double digit homers anthony. Rizzo with eleven calls. Were who's no longer with the team. He then ian twelve and then outside of that. You had no power at all. So i think peterson being in chicago does a lot of things for them. And i think that's gonna definitely pose an issue for opposing teams not to mention. It's another power bad. You have to worry about and in some regards. I think he is better than college. Warburg so in some in some cases he is kind of an upgrade for the cubs. Now again the cubs have a lot to prove. They've got this really talented team. They're going back and forth in this contract negotiating with anthony. Rizzo it got biased. Who's going to be a free agent at the end of the year. So they have a huge maker breaks not mentioned it before they've got a big make or break season ahead of them and i think that if they can use jock peterson appropriately. He's only there for a one year deal. Also so this could be a last ditch effort by the comes to try and make as big of a playoff run as you possibly can before you have to let everybody go back to stage one and rebuild the entire team but again this is a big move for them to move. I would watch very intently especially with this central and how up for grabs it. Is everybody's saying the cars are going to run away with it. I don't really know about that. I mean there's some teams that again. They've got much more talent across the board the cardinals kind of drops. Off after aeronautics in goldschmidt. Yeah they've got some pretty solid pieces. I mean tyler. O'neill was hitting well in spring training. Give him that. And they're pitching. It's been pretty solid. I mean adam. Wainwright was actually pitching great at one point or another in spring training. So i think peterson could be. That added edge for the cubs. I don't wanna say that he's going to be an mvp. I don't know if he's going to necessarily be an all star but he can get you. Twenty five homers in eighty hour be is if he really wants to and i think that's exactly what the cubs need. They don't really have anybody in that lineup. Me yeah they probably do with rizzo. They probably do with by. They probably do. Wilson contraire is not so much in. Maybe maybe not what. I definitely think that peterson's capable of that and you can almost guarantee you're going to get some sort of power production out of him. So i really like peterson on the cubs. But then getting into another player and i briefly kind of previewed it in the last segment is about the angels. And it's jose iglesias over at short now comes in replaces angelsen simmons who left in free agency and iglesias is an interesting case because he had a really good year last year but he played in a little over half the games. He didn't even play in a full season. He batted three seventy three with a nine fifty six. Ps but he only played thirty nine games now as better if he had played thirty nine games as opposed to nineteen games and had those numbers. Because i think that would have been a little bit tougher to gauge. But thirty nine games in a sixty game season okay. I can see where they were thinking. They're probably not gonna put those numbers up this year right. Let's face it. I think he's capable of a hitter. In that regard to be up that high in an average but i do think that he can be a consistent solid battle that can be a secret weapon in their lineup. Not to mention he brings a ton of defense for them and He's a little bit better of a defender than angleton. Simmons's and i definitely think that looking at last year and kind of comparing simmons to g- laziest concerns only played in thirty games okay. He played in nine fewer games than iglesias did and he actually had a worse batting average and his numbers were clearly not the same. He batted two ninety seven thirty games. So it's still a good average but it's not a 373 average in thirty nine games not to mention like i said simmons en and it's pretty similar in fueling last year but simmons had a couple more errors the nucleus. He only had four errors but iglesias only had one air all of last year. So i think that's another thing. They're going to be getting an improvement at the plate. They're going to be getting an improvement over at shortstop. And i think that can really do a lot of things for this angels team in. Like i mentioned this angels team. I think is looking for any sort of answer in what they can do to try and bring themselves playoff run now. I don't wanna say that. Jose iglesias going to be that main peace and he's the main reason why that's not. That's not necessarily the case right. That's not necessarily that isn't what's gonna take them to the promised. Land it's going to be it's gonna more so be all the combination of the moves. They've made in the past right. You go out the year before and you got anthony rundown so now you've got a pretty solid left side of the enfield to work with. And then you hope that joe adele's going to turn into the player that everybody's expecting him to show you tani's been playing. Well you obviously have my trout and it's going to be an interesting season for the angels because again at what point will trout become frustrated. And say i want out of here. I've been here for ten plus years and we've made it to the playoffs. Maybe one time if that right and so as a result the clock is ticking right. The clock is ticking. And looking at iglesias overall career numbers. He's a career to seventy eight header. So he's not that bad of a hitter he did have a career high in a ps obviously last year at nine fifty six and a career high. Opiates plus at one sixty. But if you look at his numbers from previous years they're pretty consistent two thousand fifteen being all star that year that at three hundred for the tigers you go down to two thousand sixteen about a two fifty five came back in two thousand seventeen and did the same thing in in twenty seventeen to fifty five but from twenty eighteen to twenty twenty. His numbers steadily improved two thousand eighteen to sixty nine twenty nine hundred ninety two to eighty eight and then last week by the 373 not to mention that the guy. That's gonna play a lot right. I mean he's played over one hundred and thirty games in four of the last or two of the last four years for a and i know the twenty twenty you have to include it but let's face it. It was not necessarily a full season. But if you look at from twenty nineteen to twenty sixteen. He played one hundred and thirty games or more in three of those four years. So he's a guy that's going to get a lot of reps over at short he's going to be a big time. I think presence in that line again. He's not going to be somebody that takes them to the promised land. He's not going to be the difference maker but he might be that act extra added piece for them that could ultimately get them into a playoff spot this year and i think this is the year that they finally get over the hump and they finally make the playoffs so watch jose iglesias over at short not mentioned great plain in spring training literally through guy out from from his butt and he was on the infield grass or in the infield dirt head of slide over literally through it from from when he was on the ground through over the first. So you're going to get somebody that's good defensively and i would definitely pay attention to how he performs early on and not to mention how he carries it throughout the rest of the year. We've seen him do it for thirty nine game stretch can do it for one hundred and sixty two game. Stretch clearly proven. He can do it in previous years. He's not gonna really bring any power with him. And he's only had one year where you had double digit homers and it was only eleven and twenty nineteen. So he's going to be somebody to watch out for the angels in. See how they are able to perform within now in the lineup. So another player. I want to get into that. I think can really be a massive massive difference maker for this team. Josh bell on the nationals. Major power back. And i think that's what they've been missing. They've been missing a guy that can go into the lineup. That can be a scary force that players can be like. Oh man i do not wanna mess with this guy. I mean he. He really means business. And he's got a big powerful bat. And that's what josh bell is. I know josh bell coming off a tough year last year. I understand that. And i know that he is only really proven himself. One time in thousand nineteen but in twenty nineteen had an insane year. One hundred and sixteen. Rbi's let all of the nfl in that category thirty seven home runs huge power bat right and last year. If you look at this national team from a year ago they really struggled outside of turner and soto. You had john gomes batting the next best in their starting lineup at two eighty four but then after that you got a lot of guys that are floating around two twenty two fifty that aren't really producing at the level. That people would expect them to look at a guy like eric teams from last year. First baseman big power bat that you would think only played in forty one games three homers. He's only three seventeen three seventeen. That is not good for a guy that is a big power bat not to mention a six seventeen. Ps so right there. That's kind of an example. Love the what they were lacking and it was power. And that's what the position. Josh bell will be playing so you insert bells numbers over tames. And it's going to be a big big difference and turner had a great year last year. So don't had a great year last year and the nationals. I think one to protect those two. They wanna make sure okay. There are other players at teams. have to worry about. It's not gonna be these two and we're going to get figured out very quickly and these players are going to get figured out right. You want to be able to balance out that lineup. And that's exactly what what they've done. They've done a great job of that. You throw in college schwarzer in the mix too and that's just kind of a little bit of icing on the cake if you will and if he can bounce back from the year that he had last year. If josh bell can do that. I think this nationals team can really be a scary scary ball club. I mean they were the. They had the fourth best batting average as a team last year and they were one of the worst teams in baseball. If not the worst they were twenty six and twenty six and thirty fourth place in the nfc east in one of the worst record in baseball and that just screams. They weren't able to convert runs when they had guys in scoring position. And you get a guy that's got over one hundred. Rbi the season already logged under his belt. And you look at the rest of this lineup right now for the nationals. How kendrick from last year retired adamy left in in free agency and these kind of go down even further carter moon. He hasn't really impressed anyone quite yet. Yang gums he was a free agent and he and he is no longer with the team. Eric teams the same thing. So i'm curious to see kind of what's going to happen with the nationals. Because i think they need to have a big bounce back year. And i think having josh bell going to do exactly that for them so i am very very intent on watching how josh bell plays not to mention played great and spring training so he the player that i would definitely pay very close attention to early on in this season and how he kind of adjust to a new division. And not to mention. It's gonna be a tough decision for him to be in but he's been able to prove to himself that he can play at a high level. Now i wanna get into blake. Snow for the padres. I think that this is gonna sound really really quirky. But i think snell will emerge as the better pickup between him and darvish this year. I'm not saying darvish is going to have a bad year. I think is going to have a great year. He's going to be sensational. But i think that snow can put up really good numbers this year and i know that the are going to be going up against much better hitting but let's face it right. Darvish is coming from a division that last year probably was one of the worst hitting divisions across the board in the nfl central so he didn't have necessarily the most amount of competition you look. You look at a guy like blake snow. And he's used to going up against teams like the yankees over and over again so he's used to these really heavy deep lineups that teams like the dodgers also have so. He's a little bit more. I think tuned into what that's like to go up against and not to mention snell n darvish both of them. It will allow the pitching responsibility to be divvied up amongst those two and also nelson lamb it and and lamb. And i think last year he really had the weight of the world on his shoulders with being kind of the ace of this team. And now you've got two other guys come in you've got a guy like joe musgrove who can be a really nice back in rotation starter guy. That's fourth starter. Maybe even a fifth starter and quite frankly if that's your fifth starter. You've got a really good team. Because joe musgrove is no. I mean he's nobody to kinda just bat an eye out. I mean he's a good pitcher. I think he was just in a really bad situation with the pirates. And i that that him in the him being in san diego going to kind of change things and rejuvenate things for his career but snow was also not that far removed from his all star season. His cy young winning season. He's in a great spot in his career. He's a young last year record rise. He was okay but he ended the second best. Era in a season for his career at three point two clip any improved it from a year before that was four point. Two in twenty nine thousand nine so again. He's capitalized on building after that kind of sluggish follow up year after his cy young performance. He does have a tendency to get into some injury problems. And he's also a picture that doesn't necessarily pitch for a ton of innings so that could be another thing to look at could the padres that all right. It's nails on the mound. We'll get five really strong innings out of him but then we've got to go to the bullpen. So he might be kind of a case where the man the coaches and the manager need to be paying attention to you know win snails in because they might have to go to their bullpen earlier. When he's on the mound so it'll be very interesting to see what snell does. But i'm going to be very very locked in to what they're going to be doing early on in the season especially against the dodgers watch blake snail go against the dodgers and compared to win. Darvish has to go up against them and lamp goes up against them me. Personally i think snell is going to do the best job against teams like the dodgers out of those three because again he has been conditioned and he has gotten accustomed to pitching against teams that have really deep heavy hitting lineups like the yankees from a division that he's coming from so pay attention to blake snow for the padres. But then getting into the astros. Jake o'reilly i think is a guy to watch because let's face it. They needed him. I'm shocked you stayed on the market this long. I know he's coming off a year where he was injured for the most part. But he's a good pitcher he's a year for from his his blown also season in two thousand nineteen where he had fifteen wins in a three point five so a really good season. That was not that long ago and not to mention this. Pitching rotation for the astros is all sorts of up justin verlander. I don't know if he's gonna come back to the same form that he was when he was you know with the astros earlier in his career with the tigers whatever else he's coming off tommy john surgery. He's thirty eight years old. He hasn't really pitched in baseball for consecutive games or at least consistently since twenty nineteen. The the older you get the harder to recover from things like that especially as a surgery like tommy john. It's the same thing like if it was an acl tear. It's very hard to come back from that. And so i do question whether or not he's going to be to his normal self. Then you also look at frame of all this. He's out from potentially the entire year with a broken hand and broken finger. and that. now you're kind of down to guys on your rotation and short lance mccullers can do all he can in shores akron. He can do all he can. But i think jake go to rise. It's going to be the one to pay attention to. Because when the going gets tough they're going to look to odorized in in in an effort to try and pull them out of any sort of situation because who knows what's going to happen with berliner and who knows what's going to happen with frame revolt is so. I do think that this would be an interesting interesting player to watch for this team. Because again they're probably trying to make any sort of playoff run that they can and they're trying to squeeze out the last bit of this team that they've got this power team that they built before it's all it's all over really so he's a player to definitely keep an eye out for in the early parts of the season. How he kind of adjust to being in the ao west. Think it'll be a little bit easier for him since he's coming from the al central a little bit more talent over there. I would say across the board. But i'm very curious to see how odorized does with his new team and then finally joakim soria for the diamondbacks. I know that this is a very very kind of distant odd thought but and especially for a guy that thirty six years old but in all honesty he's coming off his best year since twenty fifteen in a two point eight. Era in twenty four ks in twenty two and a third innings in twenty twenty twenty. So he's coming off a pretty good year and again he's getting older but he's still performing well and i think. This is a huge upgrade from archie. bradley archie. Bradley was not very closer for the diamondbacks. At all okay. He was not good. I think joakim story is going to be better anger in that bullpen for them. And it's a huge upgrade not to mention this diamondbacks team as a pitching whole got rock. last year. they had to fifty three average against them. Which was the ninth highest average against in the majors and again probably comes from the starting pitching which now you're kind of down one guy. You're ace in zach gallon but it also came from the bullpen and you look at their bullpen across the board. It was nothing spectacular. And i think that now. They've got story there. He comes from a team that was tied for fifth in the league with as as a team last year. So again a good team that comes from a good bullpen. And i think that's going to definitely be the separating factor for them and so ultimately i love sawyer for the diamondbacks. Don't think he's gonna do crazy wonders and get them to the playoffs. But i definitely think he can be a very very good piece for them down the road. So i'm very impressed with all these players but i'm going to be paying close attention to them early on in the season and i think everybody else should because they are very interesting new pieces for their new teams. So that'll do it for this segment folks as always thanks for sticking around here on the gmc baseball podcast. Stay right there though because we'll be right back after this commercial break for the final segment today. Where all get into another by or deny it. As i'll discuss whether i buy denied the idea that fernando tatis will have a better season this year then once soto so don't go anywhere everyone because we've got one last segment here on the gmc baseball podcast. Want done the latest thing. Knocker than listened to the golden state media concepts knocker podcast m. l. at the world and the premier li. We've got you covered the latest update as matches and news on the league's top player at the golden state media concept. Docker podcast back. Listen now hey everyone and welcome back to the filed segment here on a gmc baseball podcast. Jack ridenour still with you and in the previous segment jumped into discussing witch offseason ads. We'll have the quickest and earliest impact season for their new teams. And i wanna close. Today's show with a little bite or tonight segment discussing whether i buy or denied the idea that fernando tatis junior will have a better year this year then wants soda will. It's a i think a question that's going to come up for the next ten years because quite frankly these two players are going to be the future of the mlb fernando tatis signing a fourteen year extension for three hundred and forty million dollars tells me a lot of things and one of those is that the padres are completely sold on him and he's already starting to show signs of becoming a really really good player. One sotos already proven himself. I think a little bit more actually than fernando tatis again once has shown he can play at biggest stage possible in the world series and play well at that right. I mean that's something to really pay attention to. And i know that todd teeth has not necessarily had those experiences like soto has their two very comparable players right. I mean teases twenty. Two soto was twenty two. They're both pretty young. I would you know. Soda is a little bit older than totti's but they're both young and they're both under the age of twenty five and they both been able to really. I would say burst on the scene as young players now going into some of their career numbers if you will and looking at their seasons from last year but also just in general you look at once so to one so has yet to have a season where he batted. Below two eighty. He's played in over three hundred games in his major league career. He's got a to ninety five average nine seventy to open a one fifty three oh. Pm plus in his career again is twenty two years old. He has put up this kind of numbers okay. Eighteen in his rookie year played one hundred. Sixteen games batted two ninety. Two had twenty two homers seventy. Rbi's he comes back in two thousand nineteen playing one hundred and fifty games and again durability is a big thing especially for these young players to show early on. He had thirty four homers then hundred and ten. Rbi's batted two eighty two and at a nine forty nine s at a better. Oh ps in twenty nineteen. Then he did in two thousand eighteen and last year in twenty twenty. He was on an absolute tear. Thirteen homers thirty-seven. Rbi's three fifty one batting average of four ninety on base percentage a six ninety five slugging percentage and over one thousand. Opn eleven eighty-five and to eighteen plus not to mention the three fifty one batting average led the nl the four ninety b p the six ninety five slugging and the one point one eight five and not to mention the to eighteen o. Ps plus all led the major leagues the last year quite frankly if the nationals had been any good and had actually played well he probably would have won the mvp. I would have picked him over. Freddie freeman all day every day. Now we go over to fernando tatis and we look at some of his career numbers now. His career been again much shorter. He's only played in one hundred and forty three games total. He has not played in an entire season. He hasn't even played over one hundred games yet. He's played in two seasons played in eighty four games. Twenty nineteen and fifty nine and twenty twenty both years. He batted great right. I'm in two thousand nineteen. He had the three seventeen and twenty. Twenty two to seventy seven but the one thing that kind of concern me twenty twenty. Four teas was his average started off so so high. And i remember at one point i mean he burst on the senior ten homers through the first thirty some odd games or whatever was the first month and a half of the year and everybody was blown away with his power and rightfully so i mean he literally. Has you know some of the most home runs through for player through one hundred or or an under a hundred and fifty games. He's got the most homers in under a hundred and fifty career games for a player in their first one hundred fifty games. So that shows you wear to. What kind of pace that. He's already setting early on now. The other thing though to pay attention to is that totti's has not played a full season. He hasn't played in over one hundred games. And so i do wonder is he able to withstand an entire season grind. Is he able to go through that and is able to put up the same kind of production the same kind of numbers game after game in one hundred sixty two game season want soto has shown that wants soto has shown that he can play in lots of different situations. You look at the world series from a couple of years ago right wants oto played very very well. He was a player that i think in all honesty. He was one of the main reasons why they were that good. And they wound up winning. He batted three thirty. Three in that world series okay. So he was nine for twenty-seven he had three homers and seven. Rbi's in seven games. That tells you a lot right. They're not to mention in those playoffs. He batted two seventy seventy back but he two to seventy seven had five homers fourteen rbis throughout the entire playoffs. And i know that that you can't really say anything about that for for for not. He was been on a team that has not really come into their own as as well as the nationals have. Because again the potters are a little bit more. I would say they're a little bit newer to the rebuild phase that i would say the nationals have been in the past and so that is something i do wonder about can t go the full length of the season withstand that everyday grind and still put up those numbers and we have seen again. So do that and you look at also field. I mean the fielding in all honesty. I think you have to give that to tease. I think tha teeth is a very very good player overall. I think that he's a great player in the field. I think he's got a lot of skill with the glove and so he's pretty decent with the glove. I wouldn't say great. He's not terrible but he's not somebody that really impresses me as a great fielder. I do like totti's more as a fielder but soda is just and not to mention. This goes for both players right. The confidence that just radiates off of these two. It's kind of incredible to watch. You would think that these guys are twenty eight twenty nine years old and they're twenty two years old. They're younger than i am. And they're standing in the box against cy young caliber pitchers and they're hitting bombs and with no problem and i love todd flair. I think that's soto kind of did that. I a little bit again. Soda sodas been in the league a little bit longer than talk. Tease has and he's got a lot more time under his belt. He's proven a lot more and so it does make me wonder okay is not able to do what soda can do a full season. I would like to say yes. I think that he can but at the same time. Let's also look at the the divisions that they're in this year you look and both are in very good divisions. That's the thing i would say bad. The totti's in a little bit of an easier division across the board because if you look at their teams outside of the padres in the dodgers you're not gonna get anything scary from the giants and the rockies diamondbacks so it will be easier for thought when he goes up against those teams to hit well against those teams because they're just not asked talented and they don't have the pitching but the dodgers have now if you look at soto and who he has to go up against he's got to go up against teams like the braves that have to really good pitchers in three really pitchers max freed and ian anderson and charlie morton than you look at what the mets have with jacob degrom and if noah syndergaard gets back to full health he also and then you look at you know is like for the phillies aaron. Nola zack wheeler. There's i think much more talented pitching across the board in the east and there is in the west so although soto has shown he can put on a show. This is the most talent i think. He is faced in his entire career pitching wise since he's been in the east now with soda or with with totti's again been a little bit more condition with the pitching. He's got to go up against he's been a little bit more prepared for what he has to see with the dodgers but then after that he doesn't really have to worry about much from the giants doesn't have to worry about anything from the rockies the rockies have nobody on their pitching net is that scary her that formidable of pitcher. And then you also look at teams like the giants or like the diamondbacks the diamondbacks. They don't really in especially with zach. Gallon out i mean. It's made things a lot easier for fernando tatis so all in all. I'm very curious to see how they're both going to play this year. I would say that they're going to be kind of the front for the next couple of years in the mlb they're going to be kind of the cornerstones to to baseball. And i think that's a great thing and not to mention. I mean you know. Sotos won a batting title. He's won silver slugger now. Free nando taty has also won a batting title or excuse me as a silver slugger but you look at the numbers and you look very very intently at what they've been able to do the last couple of years in their career and so wars also been pretty solid right. He's got a nine point. Eight career war then over to tease and his you know war is six point nine now. There is a one season kind of difference between the two and tatas. War did take a little bit of a setback from twenty nine hundred twenty twenty same thing with soto but so does war from two thousand eighteen to twenty one thousand nine hundred a big time jump so if you look at that aspect also from their first a second year so had more of an improvement i would say tot teeth had now again not probably on track to make a really like insane numbers i mean just ask. I mean at seventeen homers through the the the entire season last year. It's seventeen homers in fifty nine games so you add one hundred more games to that. Let's say you know he'll have probably close to thirty or he'll probably have over thirty home runs if he kept up with that pace. One can do the same thing though. They both can do the same thing. So i would probably have to say that. I'm going to deny claim. I'm going to deny that. Fernando tatis will have a better season than one soto. I want so. We'll have a better season than fernando. Tatis will because of just watching their career trends the fact that soda is a little bit more conditioned to plane entire season as opposed to tease. I think the one thing that has going for him over soto is that he's not going to face the pitching that soto will want so to will face really good pitching but he's also again he has been put into high pressured. High intense situations doesn't seem bothered by it. He doesn't seem to let the moment get to him. He seems very composed. I mean watching him in world series was a sight to see. He's a twenty year old twenty one year old. I think he actually turned twenty one during the playoffs. Staring down these syon caliber pitchers and justin verlander. And zach frankie. And he's not batting an eye at them. he's not afraid he's not timid. He's not nothing. He was very composed he was very controlled and as a result he hit the best. He hit the entire playoffs in the world series. In the moment that it matters now would be curious. See both of these teams go to the playoffs. From what soto enchant. Totti's do in the playoffs. Because then i would also say soda would do way. Better than touchy were in the playoffs. I think that this will be a constant theme for both of their careers. They will constantly be compared to each other. They're constantly going to have their number stacked up against each other because they've come into the league around the same time so does got one more year under his belt. They're both the same age. They both have kind of the same hype surrounding them and they've also both so shown potential and the ability to be really really really good players. I mean really good players. I think todd and so eventually we'll both win. Mvp's down the road win. i don't know. And i think that we could onto this back and forth. Who's the best player in baseball. Totti's or soto and i think that again this year i definitely have so having a better season and i do deny the claim that taught teach. We'll have a better season than soto. And it'll just be the the one thing. I'll just be paying attention to his house. Soto handles himself against a really good pitching and not to mention. There's also a better. I would say improvement rate from the first to second year for soto. As opposed to tease. Now we'll see what it's like for the third year for teeth because but thirty year for soto. That's where he had the best production that's where he was sweeping all the category leading statistics in opie s and on base percentage. I mean again. He probably should have won the mvp last year if he was on a team. That was any good. Unfortunately he was on a team that was not very good and so as a result it kind of hindered him a little bit and so i think that if he was on a team this year. That's going to be competitive. That's gonna fight for playoff positioning. I would definitely again be would not be shocked because soto is that good of a player at the same time the other one thing i will say that kind of helps tease out is that totti's can kind of hide behind all the other talent that on the padres before soda was having to really be the main frontman again. He was the main piece. He's the guy that all pitchers were really honing in on. Now there's a little bit more talent but everybody's got their eyes on soda. Everybody is out with their antennas. And they've got their you know their biggest radar out and ready for soto because of what he did last year and the damage that he did and even though pitchers probably were still trying to figure him out and the fact that he's been able to still perform like this. He's had three years under his belt and pitchers have had time to figure out how he hits another thing to kind of make note for soto but again totti's i think he's got a little bit of the one up with going up against the lesser pitching and the not as talented pitching so ultimately we'll have to see. I think it's gonna be a great great battle between these two these these two players in one day. who knows. maybe we'll have a little world series between the padres for an nfc. Yes i should say. And then i'll see us between the padres and the nationals. That'd it'd be fun showed out. That would be really really fun. Showdown but folks. I think that's going to wrap up us for today as always like i mentioned. I'm going to deny that claim. Do not think that totti's will have a better year than soda. I definitely have soto having the better year but as always i really appreciate you all listening. Thank you for listening to the gmc baseball. Podcast brought to you by the mc podcast network. And i would like to ask you. Please remember to subscribe to the show. A nice little review. That really helps us. Also if you can please follow us on facebook twitter and instagram. We'd really appreciate that and as always everybody thank you so much for tuning in and have a wonderful rest of your day. You've been listening to the golden state media concepts baseball part of the golden state media concepts podcast network. You can find this show and others like it at. Www dot g mc podcast dot com download. Our podcast on to stitcher down clock and google play just taika empty to find all the shows from the golden state media concept's podcast network removing him music from sports entertainment. And even we news. You can also follow us on twitter and on facebook. Thank you and we hope you have enjoyed today's program.

astros baseball jays phillies mets dodgers cohen white sox giants blue jays mlb peter gammons yankees fernando tatis mark apple nfl wilpon padres cubs stanford
GSMC Baseball Podcast Episode 271: Wild Card Watchers and Underrated Players

GSMC Baseball Podcast

1:28:19 hr | 7 months ago

GSMC Baseball Podcast Episode 271: Wild Card Watchers and Underrated Players

"Golden they'd leave Concept Baseball podcast. We. Cover everything major league from spring training who the world theory got your favorite club cover from. New York to then to Elan this if the Golden State. Media Concept. Baseball podcast. Hello and welcome back to the GS. NC Baseball podcast brought to you by the GMC podcast network. I'm your host Jack Right now, and we have a terrific episode ahead of us today. Hope everyone's week was good and everyone was able to ease their way back into the work week after the holiday weekend, a lot of things have been going on in the baseball world the last few days we're going to get into it today and have a lot to cover, but we also have some news on not just major league, baseball, but also minor league baseball and what is going on with the affiliate. Teams but I'll dive into what we will be covering today. So I, I'll get into again another recap of games from Tuesday September eight and will also go round the league giving updates on teams records and how their playoff hopes look with less than you know thirty games to play until the postseason. Afterwards, I'll discuss the biggest wildcard watchers in which teams are right now on the outside looking in for the playoffs but could meander their way into the postseason by taking the final wild card spots for the playoffs then get into a discussion on the minor leagues and what all is going on with the. Be and how this pandemic could affect the future of the miners and how it's already affected in some ways and be sure to stick around for the final segment today as I will share my most underrated baseball players in the League which players seem to always performed very well yet really talked about and especially what kind of season there been they've been having this year. So I WANNA dive right some game recaps from Tuesday September a lot of things have been going on in baseball and again like I mentioned. With baseball now under that thirty game mark with you know not even not even a month left in the season really because the season will be over by the end of September. So we're very very close in the playoffs right around the corner and things are really starting to heat up for some teams in the League so I'll jump right into it first game D- Tigers and brewers tigers taking this one, eight, two, three bruise really struggling they've really really struggled the last few games they did put up three. Runs in the top of the ninth tried to make some sort of a comeback but it was a five bottom fifth inning for the Detroit Tigers that really propelled them into their win against the Milwaukee Brewers Heimer. Candelaria had four RBI's he's been playing very well hitting above three hundred this year five home runs for him I. Really Really. Nice Bat in the lineup for this tigers team that's nineteen and twenty one they are knocking on the door for the playoffs and they could really see see themselves potentially make. A little bit of a leap. If they're able to get a couple more winds down this down the road throughout the rest of the season, we could possibly see them maybe knocking off a team or two in the wildcard and taking you know their first playoff their their first playoff appearance in quite some time. So great win for Detroit, Milwaukee Moves to eighteen and twenty two again there another team that is right on the cusp of making the playoffs, but it's going to take a lot of you know. Baseball and really almost nearly perfect baseball to be played the rest of the season for Milwaukee if they really want to have a legitimate shot at making it into the postseason because an eighteen and twenty two record right now sitting in third place in the central about two three spots outside of that last eighth spot for the playoffs, it's going to take a lot for them to really find themselves in a strong. You know good solid playoff position come the end of September early October. So next two games, the were a double header I one coming against the twins and cardinals twins taking this one seven to three twins scoring three runs in the top of the first, and then one in the top of the fourth and one of the top of the v Saint Louis did put up three in the bottom of the but then Minnesota tacking onto more insurance runs the top of the seventh, and that was pretty much all she wrote for the cardinals twins now move to. Twenty seven in seventeen. So they're having a really really really good year this year they have fallen out of first place, the Indians and the cardinal excuse me the Indians and the white sox have now started to try and have really laid their claim to that AOL central but don't don't discredit the twins don't discount the twins because Minnesota is a very good team. They've got a lot of really good players some really good pitchers also they they're very well balanced team and I Don't think people really notice that mainly because Nelson Cruz who again hit another home run on Tuesday he's been an absolute light and a half for this twins team especially with how well he's been hitting at the age of forty years old Jose Barrios, they get the win against the cardinals and the first of two games he moves to four three on the season. Again, he still has a four point, four, zero era and a lot of other guys on this team. You know I think. He's a very good pitcher. He's GonNa about a two point two, seven era two point three era rainy Dob Nak who will hear about more later on in the show I think he's one of the most unsung heroes, not only on that team, but really in the entire al I mean he's a very good pitcher who's been very efficient for them and he's done a lot of really really good stuff so far this season and quite frankly he could take that a position from Barrios Barrios. This supposed to be the as on this twins team, but dom next been putting up numbers to argue. That and to really make a claim and make a case for him being the ace on this team. So comply time, it'll be very interesting to see if Barrios is able to turn it up a notch or it's going to be Nak is going to be taking the reins as the ace for the twins. Miguel Steno had a two run home run as well. So good thing that he starting to get the get the back going a little bit as we near into the playoff time because they're going to need everything they're gonNa need everything in more come you know the beginning of October. And they wanNA find themselves in a legitimate spot and not getting bounced out of the first round of the playoffs which has been a constant theme for them. The last couple of years and I really do think this twins team could make legitimate run deep into the playoffs. If they've got everybody performing the way they're supposed to but it's GonNa take a lot more than just Nelson Cruz hitting home runs it's going to be Polanco producing. It's going to be Miguel. Not Producing it's going to be guys like Mitch Kapor. Max Kepler Mitch Excuse Me Mitch Garber. Guy That I'm a big fan of I'm a huge fan of Mitch Garber I think he's a very good catcher I know he has not been playing great this year but he still has a piece that I think you know come playoff time could see a lot more production from the plate and really start to produce for this team in the second game cardinals bounced back and defeated the twin six, two four and Minnesota scored the first to run to the game but again, Saint. Louis. Scoring five in the bottom third inning and then Minnesota going run the top of. The v Saint. Louis adding another on the bottom of the sixth. That's really proved to put this out of reach. Minnesota was able to tack on one more run at the top of the seventh. But again, that was all she wrote for the twins. They now move to twenty seven and eighteen after that game and the cardinals are now eighteen and seventeen right there in second place in the NFL Central, which is arguably the worst division baseball The you know they're they're in a nice spot they're in a nice position even though they have not played as many games. With other teams have they still have you know I I think the makings of being a good solid playoff team I mean at the St Louis Cardinals Right. They always find a way. They always are you know that team that come playoff time come postseason time they really ratcheted up a little bit and they really you know get the ball rolling a little bit. So hopefully, the cardinals can keep hold of that second place spot but if not, you know look to see teams like the Milwaukee brewers try and knock them out of that second place position and move themselves. Up a little bit in the division next Game Red Sox Phillies, and this was another double header. The first game phillies winning six to five. Don't discredit don't or excuse me don't this account Philadelphia either because Philadelphia has played much better baseball. As of late, they're really starting to separate themselves from the New York mets who I think as we get into September and further into the month, they might start to digress a little bit and we'll start to see the phillies ascend a little bit more and I'm not GonNa say that the braves are completely you know years. You know huge steps ahead of the phillies in the division I, do think that the phillies if they were to play perfect baseball and if the and they're going to have to get some help from the braves. In that first place but I think that the braves have a good solid. You know hold in that first place spot but I do think that the phillies could make a run and could make a case to taking that first place position from. ATLANTA. Philadelphia scoring one run in the bottom of the second and in three in the bottom third, and then Boston was able to put up one run on top of the third. But back to back to run innings, for Boston, in the fifth and the sixth and then Philadelphia able to walk off the bottom of the seventh and it was Alec bomb who hit the walk off and he also had four R. V. I. Game. So very good game from bomb Rafael Devers did have. A three game so good for divers to finally get things going from the plate for himself because he has really been struggling this year and it's a good sign for Boston moving into next year because I'm sure they've probably written off this year as kind of a throwaway season I mean they're fourteen and twenty, nine actually in this next game that we'll get into their now fifteen and twenty nine after they defeated the phillies five to two. So they split the double header Denver's going into next year I think it's going to be really good I think where he's going to use this year possibly as kind of I don't WanNa say a Europe of growth or development because he really hasn't taken the step forward but I think that he's going to use as a building block. He's going to take this with you know you know I don't want say a grain of salt either because I'm sure he's going to really try and capitalize on this rough year he's had and try and come back next. Year better than ever and you know really bounce back in twenty twenty one because I do think he is one of the best young stars in Baseball I mean twenty five and under baseball players you have to put divers in that conversation so we'll look to see the you know the red sox possibly be better next year because they're completely out of it this season they would literally need three or four teams to have a catastrophic meltdown in the last two and a half weeks of the season and they would have to play. Perfect baseball, not near perfect baseball but perfect baseball. But a good bounce back win for the red. SOx In that game two of the double header. Philadelphia, during the two runs in the bottom of the first but then Boston scoring one run in the top of the second and one in the top of the fourth. Then they also put up to run to the top of the six and then one in the top of the seventh. So they did a really nice job of capitalizing when they had to and scoring runs late in the. Game. Also making sure that they put that one out of reach against the phillies Bobby Dall back had home runs. He drove in three runs for the Red Sox really big day for him. He had actually a two run go ahead home run that was able to put this again, put this one out of reach against the Philadelphia Phillies. So great bounce back win from Boston moving into the. Next game raise nationals. This was a really good one nationals winning five to three nationals bloated the bases many times as they did a really nice job getting getting guys on base moving them over I will say though the raise showed their ability as a team to strategically move guys over I can't remember who it was but he got on just a, you know an infield single essentially. And in literally the first pitch that the pitcher through the next at Bat, the guy took off and he stole second. So just like that in a matter of three or four pitches. Now, all of a sudden they had a guy on second so and they showed their the the danger that they bring to every single game that they play because they are that good at scoring runs they're that. Talented at moving guys around strategically and setting their team up for you know a good solid opportunity to score runs. Washington scored the first run of the game in the bottom the first, and then put on another run in the bottom of the second and two in the bottom of the third Tampa. Bay Did put up three in the top of the six they did knock at the door a little they tried to make. A little bit of a comeback Washington put up one run in the bottom of the sixth. That proved to be the insurance run for them. Yarbrough got the loss for the race. He's now own three on the year, and he's the guy that a lot of people are touting as kind of the next big thing in that raise organization him and glass now as to the better young pitchers for Tampa Bay Anibal Sanchez for the. For the nationals starting to you know kind of wake up a little bit improve his stock a little bit. He was earlier this year throwing I wanna say he was above a fifteen era was something astronomical. That was I couldn't even believe that he was a starting pitcher in the MLB and the ad that high of an IRA but he's doing to let down to six point three four still not very good. But a big. Improvement. He's two and four on the year after that win wants Oto he again, he's been playing much better look to see want Soto in the next couple years. Also, I know I just talked about Rafael Devers but look to see one Soto being that conversation and in that mix of top tier twenty five and under baseball players who we could potentially see be the face of baseball. I could really see diverse teeth and Soto. Three be the face of baseball and the next five six years and be the the names that we hear all the time. You know we're going to start hearing those names twenty, four, seven on nationals having not a great year this year sixteen and twenty five. So again, like the Red Sox, they're probably completely out of it the raise though twenty eight and fifteen first place in that Al East and they have a really. Put on a show. This season I mean, they have a really proved that you know they're better than the Yankees this season I can't believe that but the Yankees and I had this conversation with a couple of friends the other day and they asked me who's the best team in baseball, and if the Yankees are healthy, you can make a legitimate claim that they're the best team in baseball this year I would have to say. It's probably the dodgers and then probably a close second maybe maybe the padres or maybe say a team like the white socks or the Indians even the athletics could even make a case for the athletics. Those are you know four or five very dominant teams this year but right now the Yankees, they are not looking like a top tier baseball team I mean they have mightily lately and they've now been you know leapt over. By. The Blue Jays the Blue Jays are sitting in second place in the AL least and we could see a very interesting Al East picture with the rays in the blue jays being the top two teams in that division with the Yankees and the red sox kind of floating around the bottom. Now, the Red Sox are completely in the bottom but the Yankees if they keep slipping and they keep performing the way they've been performing. Look to see them possibly get leapt over by or get leftover by the Orioles I could really see that also happening to the orioles I mean they're knocking at the door for the playoffs and we'll hear about them later on in the show, they could also make a big run for the postseason as well. So next Game Kansas City against Cleveland Cleveland losing eight to six to the royals Cleveland scoring the first three runs of the game going three nothing going into the third inning book Kansas City was able to tie it up at three in the top. Of the third, they put up three runs in the top third inning, and then in the bottom third clean was able to put on two more runs. So now going into the fourth inning, five, three royals were able to put on a string of runs in the seventh eighth and ninth innings to in the seventh to in the eight and one in the ninth. Really Nice job by Kansas City scoring those runs later on the game and I talk about law being able to not just spread out your offense throughout an entire game but being able to put up. Five runs in the last three innings of baseball game. That's really hard to do especially when you're either tied or you're at a deficit being able to kind of come back and get out of the hole that you've dug yourself earlier in the game that shows a lot too not only an opponent book just fans viewers and people in the baseball community that hey, you know what? Even though that we've got our backs against the wall were able to still strike and we're able to you know pull ourselves out of that position and ultimately win the Game Kansas City came out and won. By two runs and they were going into those innings. Tied or losing. So a really nice job by Kansas City Mary field was a big part of that comeback. We'll hear a lot about with Mary field later on Carlos Santana had a two run home run. So he's starting to get the bat going, but I mean again, Mary field having three run home run day. Me That's. I mean, he's one of the most underrated baseball players in baseball I. Don't know why he's not talked about more but he should be talked about much more because he is very good and again proved it last night our excuse me our on Tuesday. So Really Nice Job Mary Field Francis Golden Door also had a two run homer. So you know big offense for the Indians, but the royals were able to spread out a little bit more Indians moved to twenty, six and sixteen while the royals are fifteen and twenty eight. So. They are way out of it next game another doubleheader, this one between the athletics and the Astros first game went to the athletics four to two, and then in the second game, the Astros bounced back and won five to four in the first game a lot of to run spots for these two teams Oakland's going to the top of the third and the Astros going to do in the bottom of the fifth and Oakland athletics foreign to again in the top of the six. So very spread out there. Again, I mean Lou. Zach ranking getting his first loss of the year he's moving to three and one on the season three point two, seven era Chris Davis for the athletics had a Solo Homerun Bobby Grossman's RBI single was also huge athletics. They're now twenty, five and fourteen. They're getting a lot of help from their from their lineup finally Having Chris Davis during the hit a little bit better Matt Chapman has been turning things around slowly sing with Matt. They've got guys that are going to be dangerous and I feel like the athletics they've been talked about a lot. I think people are going to forget about them come postseason time and they might you know really shake things up in the Al they might find themselves moving past the lds they might go into the lcs, which again, that would be a very interesting play-off situation having team that you never really see in that. You know scenario really a in quite some time. So hopefully, the athletics can keep on this role. That they're on right now the astros after those two games move to twenty, two and twenty one. So again, they're they're right around five hundred I know I earlier in the in a couple of episodes ago said that they would not make the playoffs they probably will but I would not be shocked if they got ousted by somebody, I would not be shocked if they started to slip a little bit and as we can see, their team is not nearly as good when they're not able to share the signs with each other so. And I don't mean to bring that up but I mean it's pretty obvious Jose Altuve as numbers are not the same as they were last year same thing with Bregman bregman numbers are nowhere near they were what they were last year. So it's clear that the sign stealing was working and it definitely helped out there playing and their performance. Now, they don't have that and it's starting to show. So we'll see if it's going to be a big Can they bounce back from all those scandals can they make a comeback in? Can they almost change their? Perception that they have and the reputation they have in the MLB and it would it would show a lot of. Fortitude by the Astros Hey, we're going to fight through all of this. We're going to get over it and we're going to still make the playoffs this year but again, I'm not a huge astros guy especially after all that that you know went on. But again as a result, you have to give them credit and they're still above five hundred they probably make the playoffs but again would not be shocked if they did it next game Yankees. Blue. Jays bluejays winning two to one and the bluejays couple of games ago, put up a ten run spot in one of their innings against the Yankees and they were really put the Yankees Shame in that game. Now again, a closer one and this. One to one. But the Toronto, Blue Jays have been playing very good baseball as of late t Oscar Fernandez has been playing out of his mind. Bobo. Sheds been having a good year. He's been in and out of the lineup with some injuries though but they've got a lot of really good pieces the added Robbie rain the trade deadline. So we'll see if that starts do pan out for them well, on the mound hyon-jin review has played very well he's pitched really really good for the Jays as well. Toronto scored the first two runs of the game in the bottom of the second really the only runs were scored by Toronto and the New York's put on one run in the. Top of the fifth but great defense by Toronto. To hold the Yankees to none to no other runs only one run the entire game especially for an offensive team like the Yankees now they have had a lot of injuries and they've had a lot of guys out of lineup lately. So again, we'll maybe start to see them slip a little bit or once they those guys back. Maybe we'll start to see them climb back up in that am eastern maybe get their first place position back Jonathan. Daviss. who had a huge two run home run for the Blue Jays that really proved to be the reason why they won on. So Great Win for the Blue Jays moving twenty four and. Eighteen on the year while the Yankees are even twenty one and twenty one. So now right at five hundred, a position that the Yankees have not really seen themselves in in the last couple years. So it'll be interesting to see how they bounce back in and respond to this Essentially, you can look at it as their records zero zero you know they've got a brand new season these next two and a half three weeks, and it's just going to really their season. It's going to be dependent upon how these last couple of a couple weeks ago because they could still find themselves playoff spot, but they could possibly find themselves in non as high of a playoff spot as they were. Originally, earlier on the season. So we'll see the Yankees are able to pull themselves out of that and and keep on that playoff trend they're on right now. Next game pirates, white socks, and a surprising pirates win five to four. Chicago moving to twenty, six and sixteen. Now, where the pirates are a dismal and a dismal fourteen and twenty six and I know there's a lot of other teams in this league that do not have great win totals like the pirates. But I could argue that the pirates of the worst team in baseball and I've said that many times. And I hate to say that because I again I live in Pittsburgh I have a lot of friends that are pirates fans a lot of family that pirates fans but the overall consensus is this team is just not good and a lot of people actually I was seeing the other day comparing the pirates to the white sox in terms of what the pirates should do. What kind of playbook they should follow what kind of trendy should follow and they should follow how the white sox have done it. They've traded for pieces they've built inside of the organization. They've really started to do a nice job at growing in house talent as we see nick magical he's a guy who's come up through the organization and he's played very, very well. Jose? Commanders and other guys. I. Know they got Tim Anderson from Seattle a couple of years ago. But hosing Brady you I mean he's been a really nice spot for them. And Having Dallas, on the mound. That always helps out right. So great that the that the white sox are able to get help not just from the plate, but also from the mound white sox scored the first run of the game in the top of the fifth. But then Pittsburgh scored two in the bottom of the fifth, and then they put up to more in the bottom of the eighth, and then the actually walked off in the bottom of the ninth inning. So really big a win by the by the Pirates Jacob Stalling huge RBI. Double Eric. Gonzalez had an RBI single for the pirates Kevin Newman also had another huge hit so. Some. Really positive things for the pirates. Again, that's just one game. So you can't really feed too much into that but again, some bright spots for the Pittsburgh pirates who I think could unload a lot of people this offseason trying keep those core guys and then build for the future. This might be a different pirates team in the next five, six years if they were to do that next game orioles, mets orioles winning in complete domination eleven to two over New York. Baltimore put up to run in the second tune the third one in the fourth and then four in the fifth. And then to in the eighth. So again, very spread really good offense for the Orioles who've been awesome offensively all year long. So really really nice job by them, but again, it's going to it's going to come from it's going to come from they're they're they're not just they're hitting, but they're pitching how will their pitching? You know play out this next couple games because they're pitching hasn't been awful but it hasn't been great. It's the the hitting. That has been clearly clearly the favourite. So if they're able to still get Santander and Alberto and Nunez still hitting well these next couple of weeks. Or Orioles might find themselves in the playoffs and I can't believe I'm saying that but they really could actually find themselves playing in the playoffs on next game. Braves marlins winning eight nothing marlins I mean they're doing everything they can to make it to the playoffs. They are right there there. Right at that eight spot. That's seven spot in the playoffs nineteen and nineteen right now. So they're above five hundred record and beating a division leader and a division rival and the braves eight to nothing really good stuff. A, run scored in the second, the third three in the fourth one of the seventh and then to in the ninth for Miami. Again, some spread out offense for the for the for the for the fish which. Come playoff time that's going to really help them out. That's GonNa really help their cause a little bit and it could ultimately lead them to you know maybe winning a series and I can't believe I'm saying that but with how surprising this year has been and with all the shocks that have been going on in in the MLB this year I would not be shocked if we saw the Marlins Win a playoff series, I really would not shocked but again, that would probably be probably be A. Little bit of a long a long shot, but I could see it maybe happening. So next game angels, Rangers Rangers winning seven to one moving fourteen and twenty seven while the angels are seventeen, twenty, six, Lance Lynn had another solid outing for the Rangers. He's been unbelievable all year long five and two on the year two, point five, two er a lot of rumors were going around come trade deadline time that he was going to get moved and they wanted no part in that conversation, they wanted to keep him. Because really he's been honestly the brightest spot on this rangers team Elvis Andrus hit a solo home run for the Rangers Jared Walston hit a solo home run for the angel the only run the angels would score and the angels. Again, another very disappointing year somebody that are a team that I thought was going to be very good this season but really have not panned out the way that I thought and I think many other people thought that they were going to be but anthony don't he's picked it. Up. He's definitely starting to turn things around. He's improved his play as of recently starting to hit above three hundred above to ninety somewhere in that area, which was a totally different story about thirty five, forty games ago where he was hitting under two hundred. So good thing that they've got him for a couple years and they could maybe start to develop some talent in the organization maybe get another piece, and if Shohei ohtani comes back next year healthy, they've got trout they've got run down and they've got otani. They could be pretty good. They could be pretty good but they're gonNA have to. Not, perform the way that they perform this year, which is clearly not playoff-caliber baseball at all. Next game reds, cubs, cubs winning three nothing over the reds cubs moving to twenty, five and eighteen. Again. The reds are just so disappointing this year only two runs scored in the second in one in the third for Chicago Pretty Lackluster offense the rest of the way no runs were scored from the fourth of the ninth inning cubs doing it how they have how they how they've done all year long. You know nothing fancy nothing crazy I mean. How? Did. Hit a triple that did score on but it it's no it's nothing glamorous right? It's nothing that is you know doing an ongoing if you will the cubs have done all year long I mean twenty five and eighteen, and you don't really hear a whole lot about Chicago, which is kind of shocking because I think a lot of it does come from you know San, Diego's been so good in the NFL that they get a lot of the. Spotlight. and the cubs I mean they're in the worst division arguably in baseball and their and their leading that division. So some people might say, well, if you put them in another division while they're not in another division so I, think you should give them credit where credit is due because they've been playing well and the reds as disappointing as they've been, they could make a little run towards the playoffs they could make a push if they can. You Know Flip that eighteen and twenty, four record around into possibly a they can win the next six or seven in a row. I know that is a lot to ask but it is not completely inconceivable especially with how we've seen a lot of teams this year very quickly turn their season around and minimize the distance and the kind of the separation that other teams have built up over them in the last whatever you know two three weeks teams. Have started to really you know shrink down on that distance from teams ahead of them in just as a matter of a week all it's been it's just one week. So the richest need that one weekend if it does come, then we could start having a little bit of a different conversation about the Cincinnati reds next game San Diego against rockies against Colorado Rockies San, Diego winning fourteen to five San Diego against showing why they are the top three. Best Offensive Team in baseball and quite frankly they might be the best hitting team in baseball on Dago scored two five run innings. So five runs in the first five runs in the second and then three in the seventh and one in the third will myers hit a huge Grand Slam and he's been playing very well. Nolan are Imola aeronautique had three run home run Austin. Nola. How to three run home run? He's been a huge pickup for. them, he's a really nice addition to their team, Mike clovinger getting his first win as padre moving to two and two on the year three point seven, four era to Nelson limit though I. Know We talk a lot about my clemenger but Nelson Lamb, it is going to be a name that people should get familiar with because come playoff time I. think it's going to be his pitching that. Could you know push them over the edge and potentially a? Catapult them further into the playoffs you know beyond the NODX into the. I'll mention this later but I think it's going to be the hitting the gets into the playoffs, but it's going to be there pitching that able to pull them further into the playoffs and push them deep into the postseason the season if they're able to continue to have the strong pitching that they've had. So the last game or the second to last game, I should say. Dodgers, this when finishing up in ten innings, Arizona losing ten to nine dodger scoring the game. But then Arizona putting up five runs in the third and then La one in the fifth Arizona putting up one of the six, and then it was four runs in the seventh and four runs in the tenth by La that was able to push them to thirty one and twelve d-box move to fifteen and twenty eight done backs are completely out of it right there. Another team that's just completely out of it and like the. Padres the dodgers starting to show why they're so dominant why they're so good last game of the evening mariners giant man's losing five to six giants are now twenty, two and twenty one mariners are nine and twenty three, and this is a perfect example of a team. I was just talking about Seattle Mariners have a turn their season around in a matter of weeks simply by just putting together a four game winning streak here you know a three game winning streak here winning five of six here winning four th year Four five here whatever it had to be and they started they've completely flipped their season around and they've done a much better job than the angels have done and much better jobs with the Rangers have done to division opponents for them, and now they find themselves in a in a third place position. So going to take just one possible maybe two little winning streaks couple team starts looking up in front of them and the mariners are going to be in the playoffs and I can't believe I'm saying that but again we Were going to see a lot of interesting things. This season things that we have not seen in probably many years mainly because of just the odd and unique season that we're in right now. So that'll do it for us in this first segment but stay right there folks because after the commercial, I will get into our wildcard watcher segment for the day and which teams could make a run at the playoffs that are on the outside looking in currently folks stay right there. We'll be right back here on the GMC baseball podcast. You're all Dopfer everything sport, the Golden State media concepts, ports, pod cash should I say more from the NFL MLB the NBA MMA in all in here on the golden state media concepts, sports podcast listen. Welcome back to the GMC baseball podcast Jack Right now with you all and in our first segment I kick things off with a recap of games from Tuesday September eighth some great matchups in all sorts of stuff going on around the league. Be Sure to stay here with us on the GMC baseball podcast for the last few minutes of the show as I'll discuss my most underrated players in baseball this year and some players do not get the recognition they deserve for how well they play I want to dive into some teams that are right now on the verge of. Making the playoffs but are not in the first eight but could make a last minute push for one of those wildcard spot to come October I even have to talk about the Orioles and the team that has been talked about more than they probably have been talked about in the last forty, five years they've been up and down in the east, the season being as high as second place in his lowest fourth but they've hovered around that five hundred mark the entire time they're currently sitting in ninth place in the playoff picture. So there right now again on the outside. Outside looking in and they're right right there of making the last wildcard spot but their division rival the New York Yankees right ahead of them and they have been struggling lately most notably losing their first place foothold on the east of the raise who've been playing out of their minds lately. So the orioles have a huge and I mean a huge opportunity and A. Huge weekend series with the Yankees the series already starting on Thursday and going all the way till Sunday. They recently beat the Yankees three games out of four series ago. So they are right now riding a little momentum into the series I think, and they need to keep playing the way they have been recently against Yankees the rest of this weekend because this is their. Opportunity. To, gain some ground and possibly knocked the Yankees out of the playoff picture. New York is very vulnerable right now and what the orioles power hitting Combo with hands BERTA WHO's been hitting three eighteen this year, Patriot Severino has twenty one rb is he's had. Eight Ninety seven P. S. Anthony Santander who had eleven homers thirty two RB is an eight ninety s the orioles are prime for a playoff appearance and I personally hope that they are able to pull it out. They did win five of eight last week and we'll also have a huge vinyl series against the Blue Jays who are currently second in the Al. so they can come out on the positive end against both the Yankees and Jay's and. Finish above five hundred for their other matchups. This'll be a season remember in Baltimore and could set them up well for the next few seasons also next team Seattle Mariners. I mean this is going to sound very unusual but mariners could make the playoffs. They are two spots out of the top eight only a game behind the orioles who are in that spot ahead of them, and they recently just put together a six game winning streak that has helped. Bring their record to just three games under five hundred and like I, mentioned teams like that. It just takes one week. All they need is just one really really good week and they need to teams or one team do kind of have a little bit of a downfall or have a little bit of a down week and teams like the Mariners can take advantage of that. They can start to leap over these other teams and that's the the the. Margin of error is very small this year and as a result, we have seen it. If you're a team that again, the Yankees a perfect example they started to slip the raise kept playing. Well, the Jays kept playing well, and now the Yankees are in third place in those two teams are ahead of them. So it just takes one or two weeks to be put together of good baseball, and then all of a sudden, you have a totally different. Playoff scenario or really just entire division scenario of of how these divisions might look if these teams are able to put together any sort of you know miraculous or two week you know five or six game winning streak or seven or eight game winning streak. The mariners did just lose a vital piece to their offense and Austin Nola. They also have not have slugger Dana Vogel Bach who again wasn't really doing anything special for them. anyways this year as he was hitting a low one, thirty, six from the plate but young star Kyle Lewis has really started to put this team on his back although he hasn't been hitting great as of late he's still has an above three, hundred, three, hundred average. He's leading the team with nine home runs. Kyle. Seager has also been playing very well for the Mariners he's got thirty RBI's and a two eighty, three average with seven home runs. Now team as a whole they're not very good offensively, they do not generate a ton of runs and their power numbers are not very high either so they want to find themselves in any sort of playoff picture the bats will need to keep up but again, they have recently put themselves into this conversation and although they are on the outside looking in, they do have a nice view of the wildcard and could take that final spot especially with the Yankee slipping some you know that is a very similar situation how oriels are right now, the a lot of teams are just GonNa need the Yankees to slip up time. Two or three game losing streak four or five game losing streak, and then we're going to start seeing teams make their move a little bit on the Yankees, and we might have a playoffs this year with no Yankees team, which would look really really weird. The differences though the mariners only faced off against one team the rest of the season that is below five hundred with five of the next sixteen that the face against the rest of the season being winning teams, they have to put together their best ball, but they are starting to peak at the right time. I will say I do. Not think that they have the chance oils do of making it as they have against struggled against their divisional foes. Especially, the ones who are in first and second place the and the and the Astros have really had the mariners number this year, they have a combined two wins against the Astros and athletics one against each team and with both of those teams having their way this season with Seattle. They'll have to turn up a notch the last two series of the season if they want to make some push for the wildcard spot but again, don't discount Seattle, they could find themselves in the postseason. Next team, the Tigers, this team has been hot and then cold and then hot, and then cold again all year long yet they still find themselves in the playoff hunt somehow losing Jacoby Jones will not help them in the long run trying to make a series playoff push as he's been one of their best hitters one of their best overall players but Jonathan Scoop has been picking up the slack late for Detroit he's actually hitting better this year than he has in any other year of his career he's got twenty two. For the second baseman he's been huge for them with Jones, out of the lineup so far in September though they have not been good at all the Tigers have gone to and five through their first seven games in the month, and it's clear that during that span, the offense was not producing at all, which is pretty uncharacteristic for this team I mean they've been in the top fifteen heading for most of the season. So in the better half of you know the offensive production in the MLB, you would think. That they would put together, a couple more wins here and there they wrap up the season with a four-game series against the royals who they are to into against the season saw a huge opportunity for them to close out the season with a four-game sweep. Potentially, that could ultimately guide them to a playoff spot. They will have to face off against the Indians in the twins before the final series. So it's going to be a really crucial series for them. Both ears are at and they need to come out as. Close. To five hundred as possible if they want any chance to make the playoffs going into that final series against the royals, there are only two and three between two and three games behind the OS and the mariners. So they will need some help from those two teams obviously. But at the same time, they will need to capitalize on those losses if they if that does happen. So those are the mariners start flipping. The Tigers are going to need a win a couple games they're going to have to win two. Three against the Indians are going to have to win two of three against the the the twins they can't afford to lose two of three against either one of those teams and if they wanNA leap over those two teams, that is what's going to really have to happen they're going to have to capitalize on those teams miscues. If they WANNA find themselves in a better playoff position, it could be a down to the wire finished between these three teams even though the Tigers are the furthest from the playoffs right now. Don't count them out again because they do have the capabilities of flipping the switch and going on a run we have seen it this year they have been surprising team one of the most surprising teams in baseball and I would not be shocked if they kept on surprising us into October the next team I have to talk about now we're moving into the NFL. The Colorado rockies. Now, this is a perfect example of a team that could get the short end of the stick because of another team playing fewer games due to coded the MARLINS are the next team in front of them, and they are occupying that final playoff spot in the rockies a played five more games than them. They do have more losses on the year than the Marlins, but also more wins than Miami. So again, it goes back to the fact that the mariner the Marlins have played fewer games and. Because of them playing better in a few games here and there the rockies on the outside looking in that is what makes this year such an odd peculiar year you can have a team that's played five or six less games than the other team and still make the playoffs just simply because they were better in those five or six game difference. Now, in my opinion, this team doesn't deserve to make the playoffs mainly because of the drastic drop off, they had they have had since the beginning of the year where. They found themselves in first place in the division, and now they are near the bottom and could spend the the false sitting at home watching the marlins compete in the playoffs. Since two thousand eight, the Marlins have only won five games, but the rockies have not been much better since the twenty eighth winning four games themselves. So the rockies are currently you know they're they're kind of struggling right now they're kind of got the they have their backs against the wall and we're going to have to see how they can. Respond to that they're currently playing the diamondbacks a weekend series, and then they follow up that three-game series with two against the athletics, four games against the dodgers, and then a four game series against the giants who are right now sitting ahead of them in the division, they finished up the season with a four game stand against the D backs. So they need to win at least three of those games against the d-backs being it as the only five, hundred team that they face off against the rest of the season. The the rockies often has been there for them this season so it's it's clear that the bat have performed with the pitching has struggled adding Michael Gibbons to the to the bullpen at the trade deadline I think can give them an added boost that they could give them a possibly a better shot making the playoffs, but they also have to hope the MARLINS start to slip up here in the middle of September if they want to themselves playing in. October it's going to be very interesting to see how the rockies are going to respond to such a great start in the season and two. Now, a drastic drop off how are they going to finish out this twenty twenty year next team Milwaukee brewers my personal favorite. But again, I don't see this happening and I hate to say that because a couple weeks ago, they were in the playoff picture and now they are completely out of that top eight. It's going to be an interesting sight to see if the brewers are able to make miraculous turnaround and just a matter of weeks is a team that has been known in the past to pick up the pace of play when it matters most just two years ago they went on a crazy twenty, two seven and run in the month of August in two thousand eighteen to eventually tie the cubs for the division and. Force the game one, sixty three. But this is twenty twenty and the margin of error is very small which makes the time to make any mistakes even smaller. So they need to play near perfect baseball the rest of the season, the brewers finished the season off with a five game series against the cardinals they have yet to play this your oddly enough because of the cancellation of gains that they had to deal with. A very. Usually these teams go at it multiple times a year, and they have yet to play each other. So again, that just adds to the weirdness and uniqueness of the twenty twenty season, there's GonNa. Be Some of the most important games of Milwaukee season this year I mean it's it will also be crucial that they find themselves on the winning end and their series against the reds who they will play before the cardinals, and then this upcoming series against the cubs as well. burs actually have nine more games against Saint Louis they that that is the team that they play the most throughout the rest of the season, which historically the brewers have struggled against in this division at the cardinals. Usually take you know the series matchup or excuse me the season matchup against the Milwaukee brewers most most of the time, not all the time but most of the time and with them dropping three recently to the Indians, it begs the question will milwaukee have enough to make that playoff push. They're really going to need the hitting to show up for them. Their leader in batting average right now is Justin Hera who was hitting two thirty two. To, thirty two and that's your leading. Batting, average leader that is horrendous doesn't sound scary at all this team from the plate with with you're leading average hitting or excuse me you're leading batting average guy just barely above two thirty they recently picked up Daniel Vogel Bach and released Justin smoak who was hitting absolutely horrible for them this year. So Vogel Bach might be the Hitter they need in the lineup he hasn't hit. While this year either, but he is coming off all star year from last season. So he could be the piece that they need to push them into the postseason they're pitching has been iffy. It's been okay. Not Great but it hasn't been bad. Brandon would rip has been their leader and as the season for the most part but Corbin Burns I mentioned him a couple of episodes ago he's. been putting together a huge season this year fifty, three cave, a two point, three, five era to no record. He's got a very, very solid season under his belt right now and he's dominated the last two to starts as well. So they can get that added help from their rotation. It'll be in the hands of the hitters to try and dig their way out of the hole that they. Have created for themselves. Next team, the New York mets, and this team is another case of a teen having an up and down year and I mean really up and down through their first game since September they went four and four, and before they had dropped four in a row, and after they had one after they had won three in a row so they win three in a row. And then they lose foreign row and then they go four and four over the next eight. So incredibly hot and cold team, they have hung on the entire time and they floated around that second and third spot and even in fourth at times this season. But there are still a decent spot to maybe make a move into the wild card if if a lot. Of things go their way, they will I need to come out on top in their final series of the season against the last place nationals who they are three three against the season they have a three game series against the rays end the braves right before the final showdown against the nationals, and those will be two very talk teams to face back to back. I. Mean I you got to face your division leader, and then you've got a face arguably the best team in the AL back to back. That's GONNA be a tough feat to conquer New York has struggled against the braves this year going to and five against the division leaders and they have had a hard time with the phillies as well who they will play before the. Braves and the raise. So three straight above five hundred teams are going to have to come out with an above five hundred record at the bare minimum at the bare minimum because if they can do that, they can set themselves up. Well for the final series of the season it's just going to really come down to how those you know inbetween series are going to. Play out for them and this mets team. Again, they have shown that they can get on a roll and that they can put together a string of wins, but it's just a matter of win is not a matter of if it's a matter of win, are they going to be able to do it at the right time or they're going to win four games in a row at the end of the season when they are I eight or nine games out of it when it doesn't really matter and then people will say, well, where was that two weeks ago so It's going to you know it's going to take a lot for them to turn the season around and they cannot go into that match with the nats having lost eight of their last ten or seven of the last eleven because it'll make those games so much more important, and by that point, it might be too late if they slip up the three series before they play the nationals so. I think it is unlikely in all honesty that the mets will find their way in the playoffs but I do think if they put together a string of wins and start to shift their momentum a little bit, we might have a different conversation by the end of September. So the last team that I think could make a legitimate shot and a legitimate push at the playoffs but quite frankly is. Probably. The longest shot of doing this Cincinnati reds the last team again last very lasting has any sort of shot of making the playoffs and I can't believe I'm saying that because they've had such disappointing year this year. But again, everyone including myself has had expectations for them that were much higher than what they've been. Performing what they've been showing this year I thought they were going to be a much more dominating team I thought they were going to you know if not win the division maybe being second and now they're in debt or second to last. So a very different outcome than what was originally expected for them earlier on in the season and really earlier on in the offseason to like the mets, they have in okay to start the month of September winning four of their last four of their first eight games but losing to to the pirates and a four game series that should not happen especially if you're trying to make a case for the playoffs you. CanNot Afford to drop to a four against the Pittsburgh pirates they faced. They face off against Pittsburgh in a couple of weeks in a four-game series, which they cannot afford to lose two or three up because those four games are going to be very crucial for them, and if they lose two or three of those four, they can kiss their playoff hopes goodbye. They have the worst hitting team in baseball and I can't believe I'm saying that and it is incredibly shocking because they did add to power hitting pieces in the off season the lineup with Nicasio on us and Mike Mustafa's and I I'm just so shocked that I'm saying that they have the worst. Average in the entire league as a team and the added two of the more well-known power hitters, not only in the league in the and in the NFL. But also in their division, two players that have that that came from division opponents and they have not performed Mukasey on Ford. Well, but Mike Stock has not performed well at all Jesse winker he's been the bright spot on this team I mean this. Team's got A to ten team batting average and got seven hundred seventeen. Yes. No wonder. This team has struggled this season not to mention they've had no help from you. He Hino Soroush you worth has been horrendous. Joey votto has not been good. They've had guys that have you know last year were performing very well, you neo had fit almost fifty home runs last year hit forty nine home runs and one. Hundred RBI. Is I told that to a friend the other day because he said something about how you he neo is not a great baseball player and I said I say that I mean he had forty nine homers and over one hundred RBI last year and he looked at me like I was crazy mainly because of the year that you hino is having it is clearly showing that last year and this. Year are a tale of two different careers for him honestly. But if he's able to turn it around these last couple of weeks, and if newstalk is can also do the same, we might have different situation come September. Twenty fifth. So we're going to have to put this team on his back though and they're pitching can really help them out a ton if they keep performing how they've they've done so far. winker has struggled in the early part of September. He's only got one hit through the first twenty three at bats in a month. So that is never a good sign your best hitter having his worst of the season at the most pivotal part of the year the pitching like I mentioned has been very solid with Sonny Gray and Trevor Bauer both leading the pack and both pitchers compiling fifty five or more case each Lewis Castille also has attributed or. Contributed Sixty strikeouts himself and teaching antone has been a nice piece and the rotation as well with a two point, four, nine era. So the pitching is there and now antone hasn't pitched ton of innings for the reds. But when he's been on the Mount, he's been affective, which will be very important for them moving forward and it really this might be a unique case. It might not necessarily be in the hands of the hitting this year but in. Contrast, it might be the pitching and I again I can't believe. I'm saying that because you know in this offseason I would've guessed that it was going to be the hitting that was going to take them to hype that they haven't seen in many years, but it's actually probably going to be the pitching I mean they've got breathe really strong rotation guys antones a really nice pieces well. Then, that's four of your five rotation. Guys can really get it done and can limit teams to minimal runs, and if they can do that moving forward over the next couple of games in the next couple of weeks, this reds team could start to climb their way up into the playoff conversation a little bit more on all I. Think it will be a long shot if they make it mainly because of the lack of heading that they've had all year, but they can build off that solid pitching in day and they have you know the the. The the help from the guys on the mound that they've had so far the hidden can fall into place. They just need their main guys to pick it up here in the next few weeks before it's too late. So a lot of different things can play out and I could see you know maybe one or two of these teams having legitimate shot. At making the playoffs if things do go their way, but it's GonNa take more than just a great performance from these teams they'll need to. They'll need the squad are ahead of them to start to slip up at the right time, and some of these teams in the wild card spots have not shown any real signs of slowing down but there is. Still a good bit of baseball to be played in these next few weeks. So we're going to have to see what's going to unfold in happened in this MLB season. So that'll close things out here for us and our second segment here on the GMC baseball podcast. Thanks again for tuning in coming up after the commercial break I'll discuss the future of. The minor leagues some recent news that has gone on with the the M I. L. B. and what this new development for the miners could mean for the future of these teams folks it's been a lot of fun so far, but we got a lot more to go. So don't change that channel. We will be right back here the GMC baseball podcast. Tired of lurching the vast jungle of podcast mom now listen. And hear without. Their the podcast network that covers just about everything that you've been searching. The golden state media concepts podcast narrower here nothing left that podcast blitz with endless hours of podcast cupboards. For Music fourth music, fashion, cooking entertainment, and the football though much more stop blurted around and go straight out to the golden state media concepts podcast network guaranteed to build that podcast is. Whatever it may be visit us at www dot. MC PODCAST DOT com follow us on facebook and twitter and downloads on itunes soundcloud and Google play. Welcome back to the GMC see baseball podcast. Great to have you all here still with me today Jack Right now again, and we finished up taking a look at the wildcard watchers in each league which teams that are on the outside of the playoff picture right now, that could potentially make a run at the last two wild card spots I wanna now dive into a discussion about the minor leagues and some recent news has. been going on with the Minor Leagues Mlb and what it could mean for the future of Minor League Baseball. So as we know, the miners have started to reduce the amount of affiliates and each team's organization with forty teams being shut down just a year and not to mention the numerous players that had been cut back when the pandemic I started. So recently, the MLB. Has decided and has implemented this new policy where the M. I L. B is now going to fall underneath the major leagues umbrella policy. So in a sense of what was happening before was the minor leagues were acting as almost like a third party. So it'd be the major leagues then all the all the you know teams, and then it would be the minor leagues dealing with all the affiliate team. So it was basically three entities dealing with each other now, the major leagues are calling. This the umbrella policy where the M I I'll be will now follow fall underneath the MLB. So there are no longer going to be separate and the MLB and the teams are now going completely you know interact with each other directly they've moved the headquarters of the M I L B from Florida to New York and the MLB chief of revenue will now be taking a lead role in the commercial side of things for the I think this is going to be huge for minor league. I know that a lot of people. And I know that they also reduce the amount of rounds for for the the the baseball draft from forty two, now five. So thirty five rounds are gone, and if you think about it, there's a lot of guys that are taking between thirty and forty rounds. I know a couple of minor leaguers that were taken in those thirty, two, thirty three rounds, and if you think about it, even the guys that are taking in the eighth and. Ninth Round, they're no longer going to be the possibilities of those types of players being drafted in having an opportunity to play professional baseball because you're going to take the absolute cream of the crop, the top five round baseball players in the MLB draft each year they're going to be taken I without a doubt and now that the now that the MLB and the M. I. Albie are working together I think that it could all of a sudden. Bring up the talent pool for the major leagues in terms of they're going to need to start. Really cracking down on some of these guys are going to have to start saying, okay who do we actually need and who could we actually see benefiting our team and who is that? You know because right now I feel like a lot of these lino low ball team eighteen, these rookie ball teams, these advanced teams, I I never understood the point of all of those minor league teams mainly because. How many of those guys actually get out of rookie ball and make it to the majors or how many of those guys make it from. A ball and make it to the majors. Simple class, aac class, Aa Class AAA, and maybe a short season team. That's it. You know four teams in each for each organization again. Start to heighten the talent pool they're going to have to start. Being a little bit more detailed and start looking at talent with a little bit more of a of a critical eye, and so as a result, these teams are going to start drafting better players. They're going to start looking at players differently because they won't have to worry about okay. We need to have enough to enough guys to field. Are you know low ball eighteen and a lot of these guys are probably never gonNA make out of able if they do they'll probably get out. Double a ball. So what's the point of having these long lengthy scouting reports on these players that you know we're getting them in the thirtieth thirty fifth round right? Instead of okay. We've got these first five rounds. So if we can get seven or eight solid guys, that's probably a little bit too many but you know, let's just keep it. You know six players, we can get six solid baseball players in five rounds of drafting I think that you know you're gonNA start seeing those first six guys being The talent in the minor leagues is going to increase because they're gonNA have to really look at the the prospects which with a little bit more of a keen I and a little bit more of a critical I now. I also think that this could help out in terms of their business model and how they kind of go about the business aspect of it, the major leagues they. They don't have their promotions aren't bad. A lot of teams do a great job with promotions, but some teams promotions are not very good. The Minor Leagues for whatever reason have the best promotional evenings they have the best promotional nights they have the best you know bring your family to the Ballpark it's you know. I don't know a dollar beer from the first to the sixth inning or whatever it might be. They have the best deals they've got the best promotional ideas and they are the most creative. If the major leagues take that creativity a little bit and they start to almost reinvent an innovate their promotional nights and how they go about the entertainment aspect of. Fans and take a little bit from the minor leagues. Then the minor leagues as a result are also going to get you know their business model is going to increase because now, these major league teams are going to be able to financially back them. So it's not the major leagues have the financial aspect of it and the minor leagues have the creative innovative side. Of It and if you put those two together, I was reading an article about this and a lot of people are very happy about this. A lot of minor league owners were very pleased about this. There's actually a lot of minor league that reached out to the MLB and said that they wanted to change the business model so we could start to see. A little bit of turning of the tide for minor. League teams, and for Major, League teams, we might start seeing a much more creative promotional events and evenings at ballparks whenever we can go back to games through the you know the interesting thought process and the creativity of Minor League teams. It's going to generate much more money for the minor league teams also because. Again this. Now this could there's pros and cons to this. There's there's going to be pros and cons to everything that you look at, but there's going to be pros and constant. That's right the minor leagues. A lot of their money generates from concessions and stadium purchases. They don't get a whole bunch of money from ticket prices right? They always have very cheap ticket sales because not. Many people are GonNa go to the Games to begin with. So they have to reduce the price of their tickets to entice people a little bit more to go to the Games, and then once they get them inside of the you know inside the gate and inside the stadium, then they can start to you know people can start paying for things, shirts, you know drinks. Food whatever it might be. Now, the major leagues are going to come into this with much more of a business aspect of it. Right they're going to say, Hey, you have to increase your prices some you're gonNA have to bring up the value of the tickets by five dollars by ten dollars whatever it might be sure the minor leagues are going to generate much more. Money but is that GONNA make fans angry is that going to annoy fans or they're going to be fans that you know they they might live locally where those minor league teams are, and it's been a tradition in their family to go see that team play in the stadium over the summertime because the the tickets are five bucks or whatever, and then all of a sudden. Now you're paying fifteen twenty bucks for Minor League. Baseball and you're kind of like, why am I paying twenty bucks to go watch you know ninety percent of these guys are not gonNA. Make it to the major leagues. I don't want to do that. So the idea of a cheap family fun at the Minor League ballparks that could be soured a little bit that that that. That fund free at aspect of what minor league brings to fans could no longer be around and as again it could drive people away from Minor League Baseball but I think at the end of the day, the major leagues are going to put in an implement some sort of business strategy that's going to still benefit the minor leagues right and I go back to the promotional idea and I think the promotions of the major leagues is going to bring up the promotions of the Minor Leagues Right because if. The if the major leagues take a a really great idea from the minor leagues and they say, Okay we want to apply this idea over into our promotional events. Right? It works out they start generating more money, and then all of a sudden the major leagues has more money. They got more money to now share with the minor league teams and with the Minor League owners, and they can now start to generate a little bit more revenue for their affiliate teams and the thing about it also this way. And this happens could we see a point where minor league baseball players start getting paid more? I've heard so many stories about minor league guys that just grind and they absolutely work their tail off and they're making just about four maybe five dollars an hour. Some guys are making like equivalent of two dollars an hour and earlier on when the pandemic struck, they were just getting four hundred dollar checks every week or every two weeks whatever it was so. Again, it goes back to the minor leagues did not have enough revenue and they did not have enough money to generate to pay their guys. Now, the major leagues are going to be financially supporting them a little bit more. Could they then? Gave a little bit more money to their minor league players into their prospects and we start to see minor league players making a little bit more money. Now, we start to see a large number of minor league players be out of jobs. In the next year, we could see an entire exodus of you know minor leaguers out of baseball. We could say told a trend change, which again, that would be very unfortunate for a lot of guys that have put a lot of time and effort into the sport, and because of just you know business, really their opportunity in their dreams of playing professional baseball is. Now. Kind of altered a little bit and also makes me wonder, will we see any independent teams be scooped up by these organizations and become affiliate teams? That would be another idea that could possibly happen I know that of these independent teams they do pay their guys much more so and we could see minor league players that are being kicked out and cut from these other minor league teams that are not going to be around anymore in the next year or two they start to go to independent teams and we start hearing more about independently teams. Oh this guy, he's a top tier prospect he unfortunately. Did Not. Make the cut with the mariners are the royals or whomever and so we got picked up an independent league team and they're all of a sudden we start hearing about the Independent League team so it's going to be a ripple effect I. Think in the Baseball World I think we'll hear more about independent League Baseball I. Think we'll see more independently teams get scooped up by MLB organizations and all in all I think that there's to be more money mate right the MLB helps them I l v the I'll be helps the MLB it's a mutually beneficial relationship that I think is going to benefit both sides for. Many many years I mean some of these teams, some of these minor league teams they had to get a paycheck protection program just to stay afloat this year they lost so much revenue, and since most of their money again comes from ticket sales to mainly concessions, they weren't able to generate and sort of revenue at all this pandemic really quite frankly affected everything. It affected the entire landscape of Minor League Baseball and I've seen a lot of things in the news with what does the future of minor leagues hold and I would hate to see a day where you know minor leagues is dwindling down to essentially you know. Two teams or three teams I love Minor League. Baseball. Personally I think it's great. It's a lot of fun. It's a new. Kind of. It's It's a different side of baseball, right? It's not the glamorous. Top of the line best players in the world type of idea it's kids that are you know guys that are you know eighteen nineteen years old some of them are twenty, twenty, five years old and you hear a lot of great stories about a guy that's been in the minus for six seven years and he finally gets his big break and he gets called up or whatever it might be and so I really hope that minor league baseball doesn't ever use fizzle out and I really don't see that happening Potentially could see some of these teams that decide to Knicks these teens some you know some of these organizations in the major leagues has start to say, hey, we don't need this extra minor league team here. We don't need this extra minor league team there. They might start keeping some of those players and saying, Hey, those top tier players will just. House them down in our spring training facility will pay them and they'll just basically work out and if some guy on the single double or triple, A. Team gets injured, then we'll just call them up and they'll basically be a replacement team which I think could possibly work. I. Think. That would be an all right idea for some guys I think that you. Know I. IT would defeat the possibility of somebody having their dreams being washed away due to a business decision right and again this this decision I think that to have I'm I l fall underneath the policy of MLB. It was met with a positive responses. It was met with a good. You know good response from the other owners in the minor. Leagues. Now, they're obviously were minor league owners that said Hey we've been doing this for over one hundred years. This has been rolling for a long long time. Why do we need to change this? What is the point of that? But if it comes down to financial backing and if you can't make your bottom line on a yearly basis, basic base are Basically because of. Small ticket prices and the minimum concession and in stadium purchases. Now you mix in this pandemic and it set everything back two or three steps. So it's going to really it's going to do a lot of things I think that overall you know this will be a mutually beneficial relationship where both sides will will benefit from it and I think that in the long run we're GONNA see a lot of. Players starting to develop a little bit more and I know that I said that you're going to have teams find the cream of the crop talent and are going to really weed out any sort of lesser baseball players. So it's going to heighten the talent pool and the overall plane of Minor League Baseball. I think at the same time, it's going to elevate the scouting and the evaluation of these of these players that these organizations will will go through because they will be able to focus on certain players. They'll be able to develop certain players a little bit more. So you'll start to see guys that develop much better in certain. Systems as opposed to guys that kind of get left by the wayside in in a low A. or a rookie ball team that nobody ever hears about and then in two years they fizzle out and that's that. So I think all in all it's going to benefit both sides. I think that we're gonNA see a positive outcome from this and I think that in the end, the minor leagues will be saved and there. Won't be any more you know worry of, Hey, you know, are we gonna make our bottom line this year on rainy days or on days that there's off games or on the days off games? Are we going to have to turn our field into a drive in movie theater though I saw a lot of teams do come pandemic time you can't do that all the time. Right? You can't. You can't be a legitimate. Operating Organization and have to use a side outlet to keep your your bottom line afloat and to keep your revenue up above you know you know the positive. So I think that the major leagues are going to do a great job with the minor leagues and I think the minor leagues are going to bring a little bit of a creative and innovative style two Major League Baseball and I think that might enhance the overall experience at a ball game and I think that it will make a Games much more enjoyable for fans. As a result with that kind of m I L Minor League feel at a major league game I. Think is GonNa, make things very unique and baseball. So they'll do it for this segment folks. Thanks again for sticking around. Stay right there because we'll be right back after this commercial break for the final segment today, which will include my most underrated players in the majors and who I think should get much more attention than they do currently don't go anywhere everyone because we have one last segment here on the GMC baseball podcast. One another the latest than knocker that listen to the golden state media concept knocker podcast M. L. at the world premier league, got you covered the latest update the hottest matches and news on the League's top layer. At the Golan they'd media concept soccer podcast. Listen now. Hey everyone. Welcome back for final segment here on the GMC baseball podcast Jack Ridenour, we're with you, and in the last segment I talked about the future of the minor leagues and how their new-found partnership with the majors could help both the nl the end, the M I L B in the long run. To wrap up today I want to discuss the most underrated players in the league, this season, and who should be given much more attention than they get currently there are a lot of players I feel that do not have the proper notoriety they deserve mainly because of the teams they play for or there are other players on the team that get more attention. For whatever reason but I wanted to highlight those who do don't usually get the recognition they they should so all started off with the Kansas City, royals, second baseman and outfielder with Mary field and to the life of me I don't understand why this guy is not talked about more. He might be having a down year this year in terms of how he's performed in the past but do not want that for you because up until recently, he'd been hitting well above three hundred hitting at the most four hundred this year at one point Mary field is a very consistent hitter that has solid power hitting numbers. They're not great, but he is so consistent from the plate. that. You kind of forget about his power number's a two, thousand, nineteen all star Mary Field has led the League in hits in each of the last two seasons with two hundred and six last year and one and ninety two the year before he has also never hit below two eighty in his career. With this, you're actually being the lowest average he has had since his rookie year in two thousand sixteen. Now he's in his thirties thirty one to be exact but I do not really look at age all that much until a guy approaches mid to late thirties with how baseball is these days we are starting to see guys peak in their thirties as opposed to. Their mid to late twenties. So Mary clearly has a few years left in him and he's hitting two, fifty three this year with a seven, forty, six. Oh, P S Maryville has not been hitting as of late going four thirty five to start the month of September. But his career numbers have been very impressive with two straight years of hitting above three hundred and not to mention he is a major threat on the base path leading the league in stolen bases in two thousand, eighteen with forty five and leading the Al. stolen bases in two thousand, seventeen with thirty four it's clear. He is a multifaceted player that can do a lot of different things for the royals. And unfortunate though that he is in Kansas City because they are not all that talked about very much and they have the worst record in the AL central I mean, this was a player on, say the cubs with the dodgers I think we would hear much more about Mary, field con constantly actually I. Think we'd hear about him constantly but because of the team he plays on there is never Much said about him which I think is ridiculous. I mean, the guy puts up incredible numbers he's he's he could be a consistent all-star for the next couple of years. I really believe that especially with his hitting numbers and his ability from the plate I think he's a very well rounded baseball player not to mention like I said, he's great on the Base Path and with the way baseball is today. A guy that's able to hit get on base and then he's able to move over on the base path that right there that's I mean that's finding. A needle in the haystack really that you don't see that very often because it's the guy that able to not only produce a lot of offense, but he's also able to set himself up in a position to have that offense produced right so he's able to set up his teammates to score runs, which is always a key thing to have leaving the majors hit the last two years and in stolen bases. One of those years it's clear Mary. Field is picking up steam just at the right time maybe we will eventually see him land on another high profile team that he could get a little bit more recognition. Which I think he deserves. So we'll see if we know kind of what the future holds for widmaier field but an eye on that guy because I think he's going to be very good for many years to come next player Minnesota twins, shortstop Jorges Pungo now, this player that is on a high profile team at least much more high profile than the royals and I still don't understand why we don't hear more about him. Coming off an all star year like Mary Field Palumbo hit twenty two homers and knocked in seventy nine runs last year with a to ninety five average that was around three thirty for most. Of the year last year this year, he still hitting a solid percentage from the plate to eighty four with eighteen is but like what he does not have great power numbers only ninety five PM plus and a three ninety five slugging average it is clear Polanco is more of a slap hitter than anything. But again, there's nothing wrong with that because he's still able to get on base and and set his teammates, score those runs he's been a quiet top five hit on the twins this year and hardly anyone pays attention to him mainly because he is overshadowed a little bit by the hitting prowess of Nelson Cruz. His war last year was nearly five right at four point eight to be exact. So very very part of his team without a doubt although he doesn't have crazy homerun numbers or big power number's like crews he is very similar to win in the sense that he is consistent and gets the job done at a very high level. His fielding does need to sharpen up a little bit I. Mean He had twenty two eras over a short. You know over at short last year but he does get a lot of action, the Middle Infield with over five hundred chances in the field and he's still compiled a ninety five. Fielding percentage so He's a very good fielder, but he still needs to keep those heirs down especially if he is very active defensively and has a lot of action coming his way I mean this team if they want to be the top tier team that they are capable of being in that they've been for the last two three years it's going really you know kind of forgotten traits going to be the fielding and I think hope Polanco could be a huge part of their success especially with him in the Middle Infield, he leaves the ailing singles this year with. Thirty six and the feeling has been much better this year he is third in the in the AL and fielding percentage. So very solid all around player who if he is able to tighten that feeling up even more and bring some of those power number's up we will be hearing a lot more about four he palumbo in future seasons. Next guy a teammate actually of planck owes that is Minnesota twins pitcher Randy Daubney. I have become a huge fan of Randy's this year because he's just he's a quiet kind of you know doesn't have any wild crazy. Attributes to him he's not wildly. He's not he doesn't have great height. He doesn't have long arms. He's not like a guy that like glass now he's got this really long reach and he's able to reach out minimize the amount of time a hitter has to react to a pitch. He's just such a solid efficient hitter. I mean, excuse me pitcher two years in the League and the guy has been stellar in the action. He has seen on the mound in five starts. Last year he has a two one record with a one point, five, nine era and twenty eight and third innings, and then this year he is six and three. Through nine starts with a three point, six, one era and twenty three KS which was his season total last year. So it's clear that neck is starting to come into his own as a pitcher for the twins although he isn't a huge strike out guy, he is still doing a phenomenal job at holding teams to as few of runs as possible and with only twelve walks forty two innings of work. He has shown that he has good con good command as well but he does struggle against lefties. There is I mean that is a very well documented thing with a two thousand, seventeen average against righties. That number skyrock skyrockets absolutely skyrockets three sixteen when he faces off against lefties and he seems to struggle on the road as well as his average against an opponent ballparks is three. Oh two. As opposed to at home, which is one, eighty nine. So clearly dominating picture at home and against righties but he needs to improve those splits against lefties and on the road to make him much more rounded as a pitcher and to the point where he can be a cut as on this team and I mentioned this in the first segment, Jose Barrios is said to be the eighth four. Minnesota but with over a four era, I honestly would take off knocking the situation mainly because he is consistent and his command is much better again, although dominic is second on the team in walks, he has ten fewer than Barrios who leads the team twenty two. So Dob can improve his pitching against lefties and start really stretching out his his outings from four to five innings to six to seven. More consistently, he's only got one game this year where he has gone six innings. So it's clear that he does not necessarily get a whole lot of reps out on the mound but he he's moving through innings efficiently he's getting through guys and he's registering wins, and again, the heading is also helping him out a lot in those situations but the twins have a legit as on their hands and. They could improve their case for being one of the top teams in the entire league. If it continues to play the way, he's he's played and potentially it could start to push barrios into the playing better. If he starts to see his position, ask slip a little bit to randy neck the next player again briefly mentioned him in the first segment I wanNA talk about him much more in the last. San Diego Padres pitcher Denilson limit and honestly I feel like not many people know who this guy is especially being on the padres. I'm sure it's hard for him to get any attention I'm sure it's hard for really any pitcher to get any attention on that team with incredible hitting they have unless you are Mike Levinger than you will be talked about a lot but landed has been. A quietly dominating this year with San. Diego. He's got a two point, two, four era in fifty, two and two, fifty two and a third innings of pitching. Lamb, it has been a force to be reckoned with from the mound. He leaves the padres with sixty KS and he's second on the team and. So it's clear that Nelson has had a lot to do with their impressive twenty twenty year. This is a player that has improved every year in the majors as well. Starting with a four point five, seven era in twenty seventeen to a four point. Oh, seven era last year to a below two point five era this year I mean it's an incredible improvement. He just keeps getting better and better, and in just three years I mean imagine what he's going to be like in five years in six years and in you know hopefully he can play ten years and if he's that good in ten years, you know we're going to start having a conversation of is he's going to be one of the top pitchers in the. NFL and because of the Star studded lineup, they have and the recent acquire moment of clovinger lamb it doesn't get a whole lot of love unfortunately but he should because with one hundred and ninety four year a plus, and only a only runs five home runs surrendered by the twenty eight year old this year, it is very clear that his pitching is vital. To this team success call me crazy but I think it's the pitching that is going to help elevate, elevate their play their level of play come playoff time I really believe that I mean the hitting we'll get them into the playoffs but once the playoffs are figured out and we're in the midst of it, I think Ciego pitching is going to need you know. It's GonNa have to do much more than what they've been. They've been great all year, but they're going to have to really step it up even more because the hitting isn't GonNa go anywhere right the hitting is going to stay there. It's going to be a matter of, can the pitching come out and perform on the biggest stage and can they advance far in the playoffs? You know this will be the first time they've been to the playoffs since two thousand and six so. They're gonNA need everything more from their pitching staff to stay in the playoffs and really make this world series run which a lot of people believe they can do with a top ten era in the entire league and top ten in strikeout. It's a head scratcher as to how we have not heard more about lamb who I think honestly, it could be a serious contender and the NFL I mean he is third in strikeouts top ten in an era. So someone who you he`ll Make a legitimate case for the award especially with how good Sandy San Diego is year will be votes for lamb it, and I hope he wins the CY young honestly I think he has the talent and the numbers to back the claim. So don't be shocked if you see his name being announced as the winner of the award, it's going to be really fascinating to see if he does come out as the CY young award winner he's GonNa have his hands. We'll because Jacob. DEGROM is making a case for winning it for the third straight year, and you darvish has also been pitching a lights out for the cubs. So I think it's going to be between those three I. Think we're going to have a little three way race maybe Max free makes it a little bit of noise in that little four way race. But I think lamb, it is going to be somebody that is right on the cost of making the of winning the CY young this year. NEC's player sticking in the NFL sticking in the NL. West actually. San Francisco. Giants Second Baseman Donovan Solano. Now, he's the oldest player on this list by only a year thirty, two year old second baseman has found a second life in his career with two straight years of hitting three hundred or higher. It shows that Solano should be deserving more tension especially with how much improvement he has seen in his career from. Hitting just two, twenty, seven, four years ago and not even being in the MLB in two thousand seventeen in two thousand eighteen Solano has risen as one of the best hitters in the NFL that you never have heard about batting three, fifty, three this season with a nine, thirty, one and twenty seven runs batted in it shows that both the con- The contact and the power numbers are there for Solano as he? Has Fourteen doubles this year and he's a low strikeout guy with only twenty, five KS in one, hundred, thirty, six at bats, his opiates, plus is also through the roof at one, fifty four, and this is starting to turn into a career year for Solano, and honestly if I have ever seen a legitimate case for most improved player in the MLB Solano just the sheer turnaround in numbers, it's it's incredible. It's purely. Incredible. He isn't a huge home run hitter. That's the one thing that I have always made not always have noticed about him. He's not a big home run guy he's only got three on the year this season, but he also generates a lot of run for his team and he produces a ton of offense for them and this year his offensive production has been much needed with the giants right now flirting with with. A playoff run the are hovering around that five hundred mark and have seen a steady improvement on the year especially with the rockies starting to slip up a little bit. But as we get closer to October, look to see salon kick things into high gear and try to get their playoff chances a little bit higher than they are right now. So my final player, my one of my most underrated players in all. Of Major League Baseball somebody that I was actually having this conversation with a few friends of mine the other day and this name was thrown out and so I looked up and I was like, wow, I can't believe I've never heard of him and again another Kansas City Royal Guy and I really feel bad for anybody that's on the royals because you just don't get the notoriety you deserve you could be. Hitting three thirty from entire season and nobody would hear about you because you're on the royals. But if you're hitting three thirty in your on the dodgers, you're gonNA probably never be you're going to never not hear your name right. So again, a lot of it boils down to what team and what market you're on as a baseball player. Kansas. City royals rightfielder and designated hitter Hallway Solaire or he solaire is another. Head scratcher to me as to why he is never talked about or at least not talked about enough. So Lehrer had her he led the AL in home runs last year with forty eight, forty, eight home runs. Yes I can't believe it myself. I mean it's like you swore I couldn't believe he hit forty nine home runs last year he'd be another guy that would be on the underrated list for me as well. He had a nine twenty two Oh ps last year with a one, thirty, eight Oh ps plus of someone who is clearly a power hitter and for this otherwise lacklustre lineup Kansas City has this is the second royal player have heard about and similar to wit I. Think Solaire was on another team. We would hear and we would be any and we would be talking about him much more especially with the numbers he's capable of putting up. He did lead the AL in strikeouts last year with one, hundred, seventy eight. So that is a cause of concern but a guy that goes up to the plate with the intent of driving and runs and getting guys score. That's a very. Good thing. That's a very, very vital thing to have especially if your team like the world's whose offense is not great. So if you can hold onto him hamper as long as you can same thing with Mary field and maybe add another piece or two and try and bring some people up through the organization we start to see the royals maybe return to not necessarily the form that they were in two, thousand, fourteen and twenty fifteen. But at least winning in a regular season game or a regular season an enormous season that is you know winning eighty games winning eighty five games I. think that would be a very achievable thing for the royals to do in a normal one. Hundred and sixty two game season with one hundred, seventeen RBI's last year. So proved, he can be a big run producing producing player for his team and with him putting up numbers like that in his late twenty s it really makes me wonder what kind of player we're going to see. Once he hits his early thirties like Mary field. His War was exceptional last year at nearly four but has dipped down to zero point two this year clearly not hitting the way he was last year I mean he's only hitting two, thirty five and with a seven eighty-seven ps it's definitely a little bit of a down year for him but the fact that he has not or the fact that. We have not heard anything really about him and he hit almost fifty bombs last year. That's insane in my opinion usually, you would hear everything in more about a guy I mean you heard everything and more about pita Lonzo. Now he was a rookie and he was on a New York team. So that makes a lot more sense but a guy that his hitting forty eight homers and he's leading the AL and home runs I mean talk about a guy that is not heard much about at all and especially if if the guy that's leading an entire league in home runs, you would think that you'd hear not you hear his name constantly he is listed as a rightfielder agent. Honestly. I wouldn't be shocked if this you know if if and when this universal h position stays that he may be leave. Kansas. City. After this one year deal is he goes to an NFL team that allows him to focus on hitting as opposed both hitting and fielding, and we've already seen what happens when you take a power hitter out of the field and place them as strictly a d. h. the start to see their numbers takeoff as we've seen with Jesse winker this year and Marcelo. Zuma. Two players have been playing well in more of a D. H. oriented role and a Solaire continues to improve look to see his career really take off in and in a few years he could be one of the top power hitters in the league, which he is capable of doing that and much more. So there are just a few guys I feel that are almost forgotten about in baseball, but they have the opportunity and the ability to be talked about much more if they find. Themselves on the right team or if their team starts to play a high level, we will see and hear much more about them I. Really do hope that we can find out and hear much more about these guys because they deserve the notoriety for the way they've been playing not only this year, but in previous years as well. So that'll wrap it up here for us today on the GMC baseball podcast. Thanks again for listening to the GMC baseball podcast brought to you by the GMC. PODCAST network I would like to ask you to please remember to subscribe to the show and write a nice little review that really helps us we're always open to any and all feedback also, if you can please follow us on facebook twitter and Instagram to stay up to date on any new updates and stuff coming out whether it's episodes content or news loved keep you all clued in again everyone. Thanks so much for listening to the GMC baseball podcast and until next time have a great day. 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GSMC Baseball Podcast Episode 381: New Free Agents and Baseball Finances

GSMC Baseball Podcast

1:20:59 hr | 4 months ago

GSMC Baseball Podcast Episode 381: New Free Agents and Baseball Finances

"Golden concept baseball podcast. We cover everything major league from spring training who the world theory. Got your favorite club. Cover from new york. Combatant to elan is the golden state media concept baseball pot. Podcast hello everyone and welcome back to the gmc. Baseball podcast brought to you by the gmc. Podcast network. i'm your host jack right now and we have a really great show lined up for today. I hope everyone's been doing well and have been gearing up for christmas time. I actually just got wind. A friend of mine from college will be coming back into area for the holiday so very excited to see him. He lives in california so when he comes into town. All of my friends from college get together. It's always nice to you. Know try and reconvene see how everyone is doing. Obviously pretty hard seeing people in the circumstances that we are going through right now in the world with the pandemic so whenever weekend in a safe way we will get together to hang out and catch up. It's always great to get back together with the gang anyways diving into today. We have a sensational show. A lot of news going on With a lot of different will be free agents now becoming free agents. Recently we all you know we will also have another hypothetical question segment later on. So i'll get in all of that. But i'll i dive into some of the latest news going around the mlb discussing any of the latest developments on free agency and really anything else. And after that. I'm gonna get into discussing some of the newest players to become free agents and which of those new free agents might be the best available and potentially steals in this offseason later on dive into what has been going on in the finances of the mlb and what some of these significant losses could mean for the mlb moving forward into twenty twenty one and be sure to stick around for the final few minutes of the show today as i will pose another hypothetical scenario which will include which starting pitcher would be the most likely candidate for you. Start a playoff game. I'll get into which players. I would and could see in that situation and who i would ultimately want in that scenario so we've got a really big jam packed. Show ahead of us today. But i want to stay right here. Jump into some news and there's again a lot of different things and move with all the different agencies and all the different free agents becoming free agents but there was also a recent trade. That for whatever reason i felt. Well i should say under the radar. I think it was one of the more Talked about trade at least in the last week or so because it was really the most significant one. I mean there was really the only one in all honesty and that was corey. Knievel the former all star reliever for. The milwaukee brewers being traded to the la dodgers for a player to be named later or cast one of the two. And i think this is going to be a really great. Get for the dodgers. I think that with blake trying to now being a free agent and most likely leaving because of free agency you now bring in somebody who is in my opinion. I mean on a lot of teams. He's a closer. He is a bona fide. Closer he's a very good pitcher he was an all star Before with the brewers and not to mention if blake training is going to be leaving due to free agency stepping in is cory knievel. Who i think is much better than trying to and he'll be that setup guy that can set up for kenley jansen who comes in and not to mention i mean who knows if it gets injured or whatever they then can go to corey knievel and can i think again is just as capable of being that good of a of a closer he has shown it before and now i will say. He has battled injuries before coming off a tommy john. Tommy john surgery and twenty nine hundred so really not a great twenty twenty for him. I mean at six point. Zero eight era. You only pitch thirteen and a third innings. Fifteen ks eight walks and the only was par played in fifteen games. So you know the twenty seven all star kind of a different pitcher. He was in two thousand twenty but again. That injury is really hard to come back from. And i've talked to a lot of people that have had that injury and they always say the first year or so coming out of that big of a surgery. You're not really back to normal. You don't really feel like your normal pitching self it for a little bit and then you slowly get back into a normal rhythm again so hopefully that was just kind of this year. He was trying to work out the kinks. A little bit again completely out of baseball for all of two thousand nineteen so and then you get thrown into Kind of this pandemic filled season coming off of that big surgery. You know not really a whole lot of room to work with in my opinion. And yes he did lose a lot of velocity but he started his show signs of picking it back up later on in the season so again good sign going into next year in twenty twenty one and i think that if the dodgers are coming in they're bringing really good relievers good. I mean a former all star really and in two thousand seventeen. It was no shock that he was an all star at one point. Seven eight year. A in seventy six innings. He struck out one hundred and twenty six and only walked forty and again in seventy six innings. That's a quite a bit of pitchers or batters to pay our to strike out especially if you're a reliever and you're coming incumbent closer situation if you will so i think this is a really good get the dodgers and ultimately. I think it's going to set them up really really well for next year. I'm curious to see what other ads that they make. Because again they have an opening potentially over at third base with now Justin turner being herb in free agency. Right now who knows if he'll resign and then you also have Her hand or kiki hernandez over at second base. He's a free agent. Who knows if he'll resign. So you've got a couple of pieces that you might have to move around and you might have to go out and get some new guys and i think that you know addressing the bullpen. First and foremost is definitely very important and again. If you had a really solid setup guy this year in blake try and and you elevate it this year this coming year with with corey knievel. I think you're going to really put yourself into a better position next year. Then even then you were this past year and you won the world series so to the dodgers congratulations. I thought that was a very very good move on your part and also i think again you're going to have very very legitimate and reliable reliever to set up one of the best closers in baseball in kenley jansen. So we'll see how that kind of pans out with the dodgers and what other kind of moves they make. But again as i get into this next part of this segment talking about some of these players that were non tendered. There was actually sixty players. That were non tendered and allow to enter free agency so again some teams making some serious cuts from their payroll for probably numerous reasons one of them being this pandemic and you know the losses that these teams have endured a lot of teams have really started to kind of put the clamps down financially on some of their money spending and some of their payroll because they wanna they wanna be careful they want because again as get as i'll get into it in a couple of segments from now who knows what next thing you know. Twenty twenty one holds for baseball and baseball already saw large amount of losses in as a result. They're going to have to do something. And i think one of the first steps was a lot of these teams letting some of these otherwise pretty talented players walk. But one of those really. In my opinion fairly talented players in recent players to become free agents has already really elicited kind of as an interest from teams and. that's eddie rosario. The former twins outfielder. He's actually caught the eye already of the boston. Red sox now. I think that this would be an interesting move for a couple of reasons. One as we all know. Jackie bradley jr. is going to be a free agent and as i mentioned in a previous episode kris bryant was a subject to being traded over to the boston red sox back during the trade deadline because what they were trying to do was moved. Andrew benintendi over from left field over to centerfield than they would inserted on chris bryant over intellectual because he plays third base but you already have offers over at third base. So you're not going to touch that because again in my opinion. I've mentioned this new time. And i will continue to mention it but i think that he's one of the top up and coming players that i mean you usually hear about fernando tatis or you hear about ozzy all vs rana cuneo or juan soto feel rafael. Devers sometimes gets lost in the mix and he should be paid a little bit more attention to. I mean i think he was very very good in his rookie year. I mean he showed it over. Thirty home runs as a twenty two twenty three year old. That's not easy to do you. Might he might have been twenty one at the time actually nonetheless being able to if you if you still if you play the scenario out so if you let's say jackie bradley jr. doesn't resign and they wind up moving benintendi over to center fielder centerfield because he is pretty athletic. He does cover ground pretty well. I know that his his performance is kind of taken a little of a downward trend each and every year and i actually saw article where some teams in some scouts are actually worried that he might not ever get to that level. That people thought he was going to because he starting to age and he's just not trending in the right direction. So what will happen with that again. Back to any rosario. If you go ahead and pick him up you can stick them in the field and you've got yourself a really really good bat. Sure his twenty. Twenty numbers weren't sensational. They were fairly solid though. I will give him that. Thirteen homers forty two. Rbi's a to fifty seven average averages seven ninety two ps and a one fifteen p. s plus. So there's definitely numbers to work with in that you know lot in that little stat line right there. I mean if he's got thirteen homers in a pandemic filled season. Forty two rb. Is you know that's one of the higher numbered of rbi hitting seasons that a lot of these hitters have had this past year and as a result. I think that you know this is somebody that is going to catch the eye of not just the red sox but a lot of other teams because again you could get somebody like this for a bargain. You could get him for very very cheap not to mention alex. Cora and eddie. Rosario they have history. They were both on the puerto rican national team together. So there's a little bit of chemistry already with the manager that might entice him a little. Bit more to come and again with jackie bradley. Jr. not there. They do have an opening out in the outfield not to mention twenty nineteen was a career year for eddie rosario hundred and nine. Rbi's he had a career high in slugging percentage of five hundred and the that's not too far removed. I mean he's not too far removed from that really strong year at the plate. I will say he does have some issues patients wise from the plate. I mean he's had two years where he struck out over one hundred times and he'd not collected forty walks in those two years so somebody that does have a high strikeout rate. But that's usually going to happen with a high power hitter. Somebody that hits a lot of home runs a lot of our be. Is they're going to be swinging at a probably a much more. Frequent are higher frequency. Because in they're much harder swings You know much. More power oriented hitting in order to try and get the maximize the most out of those hits and somebody like eddie. Rosario i think would be great for this team. Especially when you have bogart's he's been playing pretty well. He had a very good year this past year. Rafael devers struggled for the most part but then he picked it back up a little bit. Jd martinez did not have a very good year but imagine if he had another good year. You've got those three guys already in this lineup. And then you add rosario. I think that he can be kind of the x factor for the red sox where a lot of teams will pay attention to diverse and martinez. What they won't really pay much attention to resign and he kind of be that sneaky. X factor that you know in the bottom part of the line. Six seven hitter all of a sudden. He's the one that's got three for four from the plane. He's got to rbi's and he's really been the run producer for them in that game. Whatever it might be. So i think there. Reo would be a great fit for them. Ultimately i think that if they do move things around in the outfield i think it will probably increase the likelihood of this happening. All the more and i would love to see it happen. Honestly i mean. I think that they could really benefit from another power hitting bat and not to mention. If you know you've got. I mean that situation. You don't want to just have A very thin outfield with kind of who knows what you'll get out of the infield and if your outfield is not doing so hot i mean. We saw a perfect example with the cleveland indians. You know they're hitting in. The outfield was atrocious this year. One of the worst outfield in the entire. Mlb and you can see how that really kind of Trickles down the rest of the hitting the rest of the playing on the team. So i think the red sox would be wise to go after resort. But we'll see what happens with that but there were also a lot of you know some other pretty big trades i'd have to say That was actually involving a west coast and an east coast team. The angels and the orioles were were two main subjects of this trade. The orioles traded away at least to the angels in exchange for two minor league writer Right handed pitchers so again. Another big ad by the angels and i think that this is a huge move. And here's why they lost. Tommy lewis dila either either. His contract is up rose at the trade deadline. One of the two and he went over to the athletics and i think that that was one of the biggest pickups during the trade deadline this past year because we'll stella played sensational when he went over to the athletics right now. The angels infield is looking pretty thin hitting wise. And you've got anthony rendon over at third base. Obviously and then pools will be at first. But then you know the middle part of that lineup. It's kind of like who do you. You know what do you do. You have there you know. What are you gonna angleton simmons. He was up for free agency. So there was a whole over at shortstop and not to mention jose iglesias had an insane year. I mean he had a really really good year now. There's a couple of catches to his really really good year. He only played in thirty nine games. What he's still bad 373 at a nine fifty six oh. Ps one sixty fps plus. I mean clearly. His best season by far. And i think that there is no question about it which you know what. He's also had other years where he's played over one hundred games and he's bad over three hundred. I mean you're looking at twenty thirteen. He had he played in one hundred and nine games. He batted three. Oh three and then in twenty fifteen when he was an all star played in one hundred twenty games. He batted three hundred so it was really as es numbers that you look at. That are way higher than they were in previous years. I mean i hear that he was above nine hundred. He had never gone a higher than you know. Seven eighty seven eighty five somewhere in that general area and this was the clearly the highest. Opiates plus number Seen that he had as well never having a year above one twenty and opium plus so clearly. I think you're getting him at the right time in his career. Yes there is some question as to whether or not he can put up those kinds of numbers in a full season as i just mentioned. He's clearly capable of doing that. He's thirty years old age to kind of go in and try and get somebody right in their peak and right in their prime of their career. But again i think that having a g- leakiest and then red zone both on the left side of the infield that brings a lot of pop into the lineup. And i think that you can really add a little bit more of depth into this batting line-up not to mention you know you never know with trump. even though he's been incredible he's been the best player in baseball arguably since the what for the last ten years he is injury prone as we have seen it he gets banged up. He gets nick with something and he could go down. So i think that iglesias he could be kind of a reliable bat to have in case somebody goes down and although i i mean even though you know the small sample size From hitting this past year could be misleading. He did back to eighty eight in twenty one thousand nine hundred okay and he did have a career high in two thousand nineteen as well in home runs and rbi's he had eleven homers and fifty nine rbi's so he's actually had three straight years from two thousand seventeen to twenty nineteen of forty five or rbi's or more so a guy that is okay. Obviously not a huge power hitter. But he's a guy that is a run producer he will add value into your lineup. And i think that you're just continuing to add and add and add a little bit more each and every year. And i think this angels team you know maybe not this upcoming year but maybe a couple years down the road. They have a really really good season and they could start. This could be the beginning of them building up a little bit each and every year into a playoff contending and potentially world series contending team. You know who knows how fast it'll happen because again. I mean you wanna do it. Probably within mike trout's prime. I mean he's still in his prime but you want to do it in some relative timeframe. That's not ten years from now. Obviously but i think that if they keep adding a piece here a piece there trying to pick up somebody here trying to pick somebody there. I think that they could quickly put themselves into the conversation of being a playoff team which they have not been in quite some time so i'm really curious to see what's going on over in la this upcoming season. And you know. I mean you always all the rumors about them trying to go after. Trevor bauer. because he's from l. a. And all this other stuff so that could be another very interesting. Get for them. I mean that would really put yourself into a playoff conversation if you add. Trevor bauer in case in point is the cincinnati reds. They added him. He's there for a year and a half and he takes them to a playoff so clearly somebody that is going to make that big of a difference but we'll have to see how that winds up now. This has nothing to do with free agency or traits. But rather just a very interesting story that i came across on. Mlb dot com again. I always try and find all the news and everything. You know Insightful that i can really get a hold on. Mlb dot com or bleacher report or the athletic all. These other different sites are fantastic. I love espn but you know. Emily dot com. I think really focused centralized and it's all about baseball right but also again. This article actually involved the method behind the way. Baseball's are actually stored at coors field in colorado for the the the home of the colorado rockies. Now what was very interesting about. This is because colorado is known as a hitters ballpark. Okay the air is very thin. The ball carries very very far and a lot of pictures have said in the past that you know. The the their ball pitches won't break when they're supposed to break their their There's not as good as rotation on certain pitches because of the air and kind of the way that the ball. I dunno again. It's scientific way behind it. But i think the way the ball spins and with the the thinness of the air i guess it. Doesn't you know the the physics doesn't really align with how it should and so a lotta pitchers obviously have a very hard time pitching and of course field and as a result. That's why they call it a hitters ballpark. Because i mean. They tried to actually overcompensate for that by having a larger outfield than any other outfield in all of baseball and as a result. Though it's still been kind of a challenge because some of these outfielders they don't know how to read the reply balls. They should play too deep. And then there's a little shallow pop up in front of them that they don't get to they play too shallow. And then there's this long deep driveway over their head and they can't get to that so the point of this and how they're storing the baseball is to create some sort of you know Moisture if you will Or or moisture reducing moisture controlled environment as to what they called it but basically trying to allow the ball to be you know. Carry properly be thrown properly all of this other stuff. So i'm really curious. You know kind of see how this might unfold. How other other Mlb parks might implement this or not but basically they created this called the humidity door and again it stores baseball's at a certain temperature in a moisture control environment they're stored at seventy degrees and it's fifty percent humidity and it's a nine by nine nine foot and seven foot tall chamber so it's basically like this large meat locker and they actually had a couple of cool picture. Some of the guys in the log in the in this large Baseball storing chamber. If you will. And they're just sitting there kind of just messing with the ball you know. Apparently you get a better grip on the ball with this Pitcher say that they have better command better control of their pitches in method. So it's definitely something that works and guys do like it and again prevents baseball's being crushed constantly. You know allows the balls have better break And dryer the dryer. Climate allows balls to not expand and dry up. And that's what really kind of makes baseball's easier to hit is when they expanded they become dry and they were actually saying in the article that there's a couple of examples that they would do where they would have one of the boy the one of the balls that was not stored and one of the balls that was stored and they would just bounce the one ball bounce both balls and the ball that was stored would bounce so much higher because there was no moisture in it and it was so dry that it would just carry. It would just it just bouncing straight up. Didn't bounce nearly as high. So it's something that definitely. There's a proven science. It clearly works obviously no matter what you can't change anything about the air and the altitude and denver but at the end of the day. I think it's very It's it's a very ingenious way of trying to figure out. Hey let's try and correct this problem and not to mention again more technology in baseball. We're starting to see that more. And more and i think that you know other stadiums they might start implementing that who knows. I don't know if there's really any other stadiums out there that have the issue of the altitude like colorado does but at the end of the day no matter what i think that we're starting to see a continuous trend of of technology starting to become implemented more and more in baseball and as a result. You know we're starting to see the game change a little bit. So who knows what will happen out of this. And maybe we'll start to see other teams. Implement that in. Have these kind of baseball storing chambers but regardless. I think it's a very wise idea by the colorado rockies. Try and fix this issue that they have with baseball's just being hit and flown way out of the park. So that'll do it for us in this first segment but stay right there folks because after the commercial all discuss which players recently became free agents are going to be some of the biggest targets for teams in this offseason. Folks stay right there. We'll be right back here on the gmc baseball podcast. ultimate staffer. Everything sport the golden state media concepts ports pod cash. Should i say more from the nfl. Mlb the nba to mma. All in here on the golden state media concept sports podcast. Listen welcome back to the gmc. Baseball podcast wreck ridenour with you. All an inner first segment. I got right into the latest news. Going around the mlb. I mentioned a couple of moves that have been made recently in anything else involving this offseason fisher to stick around for the final few minutes of the show today as will jump into discussing which starting pitcher. You'd rather have to start in a playoff game. I'll play the scenario and then pick which pitcher. I would want in that case but i wanna get into some of the latest free agents that have become free agents recently because there were a number of players who wound up getting non tender a few days ago so basically a lot of teams just said to some of these guys that were up for arbitration this year. Hey we're going to just let you go. We're going to let you walk explore free agency. Good luck moving forward. And i think there was about sixty players in total. A couple wound up getting resigned and so went down to about fifty five or fifty six but there was a quite a bit of of Quite a bit of players that wound up getting a non tendered which was again alarming. I mean i had never seen a number that high in my entire life of players that were just let you know wound up letting go for pretty much You know for for free agency. So i'm going to get into a couple of the names couple of the guys that i really kind of you know kind of caught. My eye and i was very intrigued by on. That could possibly become kind of sleeper picks in this free agency market. So the first one i want to mention his hands are berta former player for the baltimore orioles and he was a very very good infielder for them. I mean i think what's very ideal for alberto and said he can play multiple positions. he can play third. He can play second. He can play shortstop. He can play a lot of different positions in the infield. And i saw i think that it kind of opens the door for possibilities of where he could land even more than some guys that are just. Strictly d. h. Is or that are strictly center fielder with his ability in the infield i think it kind of opens the door for possibilities and for him to really go anywhere that he would like in twenty nine thousand nine. He actually had a very very good year. He batted three. Oh five at twelve homers to fifty. Rbi's there were all career highs. And the pretty. I mean the stats were fairly nonexistent. Before twenty nine thousand nine so you can definitely see that. There's a little bit of a a rise in his performance in his production in his career. And again. I think that could be something that would be very very important for a lot of these teams to see in kind of realize that. Hey this guy. Before twenty nine hundred was not doing so hot but then in twenty nine thousand nine had a really really good year twenty twenty. Honestly he wasn't that far behind again. We played a fraction of the games as they did in two thousand nineteen so he had three homers and twenty. Two are very different from you. Know twelve homers and fifty. One rb is but in all honesty. If that was his numbers through sixty games are so let's just say i'm sure he probably would have been well on his win in close numbers to what he had in two thousand nine hundred. He had a two eighty three average and twenty twenty and then a six ninety eight so not a great power guy not a guy that's going to hit you know for great power. I mean he's never had an. Ps plus one hundred. He had one hundred sixty hit last year. Which i jumped really jumped out at me about five hundred fifty plate appearances so you know a good portion of the time that he's up at bat he's getting ahead not to mention. He's a low strikeout guy. He only struck out fifty times in five hundred and fifty plate appearances in two thousand nineteen. So somebody that is going to be very patient now. His on base percentage is not great. It's never been higher than three fifty so he doesn't have a really good on base percentage but if he's again not striking out. He's at least getting active outs. He's at putting the ball in play and giving if somebody's on base an opportunity to advance or score or something so he's at least going up and swinging. He's not just sitting there and letting pitches go by him and taking pitch after pitch so. I think alberto would be a very interesting player to have on really any team but in particular. I think the blue jays would be a likely candidate the f. oakland athletics. The marlins they're all low payroll teams. I don't think he's going to get some crazy contract. Because i just don't see in his career and really in the numbers he's put up any sort of reason to give him some long. You know very serious contract especially with all these teams losing money in the pandemic year whatnot. What i think that you know. He's a steady infielder with a good bat. All three teams have openings at different spots in their infield. I mean the marlins have an opening at second. Oakland has an opening at second. The blue jays have an opening at third. I think alberta would be very interesting to insert over at third base for the blue jays. You'd have gurriel you'd also have T oscar fernandez body junior. You've got a lot of different boba. Shed obviously and i think that alburto shed it'd be interesting to see how that left left side of the infield woodwork. And not to mention it would probably be a pretty solid Hitting lineup too. I mean a great addition into the lineup lineup for sure. So it'll be interesting to see where alberto winds up. But i think that he's going to get a nice contract. Nothing huge but i definitely think he's. He's one of the more under the radar free agents. That i think team should pay a little bit more attention to so the next guy that i want to mention delano shield. He's a very interesting case. I mean he's had average numbers but this past year we had the second highest batting average in his career. He doesn't have great opium. Numbers i mean. He's under seven hundred over the last three years but as a center fielder he could be a potential commodity for teams again. The center fielder position is pretty open. This year i wouldn't say it's wide open but there's a lot of teams that are going to have to fill. That need out in the outfield. And he was part of that. Very poor hitting outfielder. The indians again not a great outfield and he was one of those reasons. Why but he's somebody that has had much better success. Recently as opposed to before and i think that when he was in texas he was pretty decent one year two years where his average was above to sixty. But other than that. I mean the opium has never gone higher than seven eighteen. So he's not a huge power hitter guy and i mean he did have a you know pretty steady. Rbi numbers for the most part. But i don't think he's somebody that is going to make a major major impact but i think what could be interesting about him is this. It's a case where you can get him for a bargain and he could have a huge year and you got him for a fraction of the cost. And then if you think about it down the road and if you're looking kind of long term then you can kind of use him as maybe trade bait and you could use him as a piece in some bigger move to try and get somebody else down the road. You obviously have hope that he's going to have a really really good year because if not then you've lost x. amount of money but i think that this is gonna sound really crazy where he can land but i could see him blaming with the pittsburgh pirates. And here's why they need a center fielder. Because the pirates batted a collective one eighty this year for out of all the guys that played center fielder or center field. That is literally their collective average sure reynolds. He just had a down year. That brian reynolds is very very good. Very talented baseball player. One of the better up and coming players honestly. If he wasn't on the pirates he probably would be talked about much more. But then you have gerard dyson. That was just a head. Scratcher of a pickup. I don't know why they signed him. And then cole tucker hasn't really found his stride yet From the plate. So i think that if you stick into shields you can get him again for a fraction of the cost not a big purchase but at the same time you can get a lot of production out of as a player somebody. That could be very good maybe next year or the year after and then all of a sudden you've got yourself a nice added piece that was kind of a pleasant surprise if you will and if you're able to get him for cheap i think that it's going to be very very ideal But again i think that you know. His numbers aren't stellar. I think that is numbers. Could obviously go up. But i mean. His batting average was better than the entire center field for the for the for the pittsburgh pirates so not that not that bad of a job you know by him now. He didn't have any home runs this year. Seven rbi's to fifty two average. You know. I mean last four three the last four years. Actually he's led the league in sack hits so knowing his ability to move guys over advanced guys over. He's the guy that is going to potentially be that kind of set up man From the plate for different guys on the on the base path and whatnot. So i think the shields would be an interesting one for sure I think that he could definitely wind up somewhere decent. He's not going to be on a contending team. But i think that there will be a team out there that is looking to you know. Take a shot. Take a gamble. And i think that they'll take a shot on shields. Now the next guy i want to mention. He's actually been playing very well. And i think he could be a very sneaky pickup for a lot of teams. And that's mike hell franko and michael franko. He was very good for the royals this past year. And i think he's got solid power numbers. He's had one of the better years of his career. This past season and another player that again could be acquired for a bargain. That could turn out to have a quality season for again a great price in the third highest average on the royals and he led the team in. Rbi's with thirty eight. He had a very very good season across the board. We had eight homers to seventy eight average seven. Seventy eight oh. Ps one oh nine. Ps he had a pretty pretty solid year. And not to mention. If you've got those solid high rbi numbers solid power numbers across the board. It could be a very good fit for a lot of different teams. He could be a really nice kind of five six whole header. That could pose a threat on a team that has superstar to again. If you add some of these guys that have you know threatening bats and that are capable of making some sort of you know legitimate move towards being very good player then it kind of takes the attention away from those already established superstars now pitchers or having to worry about not just the superstar but also this other guy that is in the six hole and he can do a lot of damage because if you surrender any baserunners three thirty five year in for a rude awakening because again. You're you're picking up somebody who lead their team a year ago in rbi's so a couple of teams. I think could possibly get him and could be very interesting. Would be the brewers. I mean they definitely need a corner guy at third base with bad especially after last year i mean. They struggled across the board as a team and not to mention stock left. You know shaw's not there anymore. So they've got an opening there and if they don't exercise you know that option on jet jerko and they let him go. Franco could be a nice edition for. The milwaukee brewers cincinnati reds. Another team. they could really use a nice impactful bat in their lineup. Short they probably would have a little bit of an issue at third base with mike moustakas. They're already but if the universal d. h. goes universal maybe one of them at the age and you put the other one at third base. And you just interchange them because he would have somebody that bad way better than newstalk as did this past year and somebody that bad you know pretty pretty much better than the nick house and those were the two big pickups for the cincinnati reds but i think if you add franko to that mix. I think that's just going to be an added that also you hineous swore is also they're still so you'd have four legitimate batters again. We saw this past year. You don't have to get it. Done with superstars. The tampa bay rays went all the way to the world series and they didn't necessarily have any superstar. You no hitters so again those would be four very solid hitters for the reds. And i think that they could potentially go very far. If they were to pick up somebody like him and then the blue jays again. I mean if you're able to land that good of corner third baseman you add guerrero and hernandez and guerrero and you know. Obviously both shut. Like i mentioned for hands are burto. I mean again. It could be just another added peace in that lineup. And i think that if you can bring in somebody like that can really step up. Step up the level of play not to mention the blue jays or kind of one of these teams that they're on the come up and i think that they and they've even mentioned they wanna spend some money this offseason so who knows they could go after a big name at somebody huge and then get you know franko for a very good price a really good contract and not have to spend a whole bunch of money and get a lot of production out of him. So wherever franco goes. I think that he's going to be a very warm. Welcome to player in any really lineup in all honesty so the next guy wanted discuss and i briefly mentioned him in the first segment. That's eddie rosario. As i mentioned we already saw some teams have shown some interest in him already. And even though you look at his career numbers and they've trend downwards over the last few years his numbers have stayed fairly consistent. I mean they. They've also taken a little bit of a dip but they haven't taken as big of a dip as his average has. Ps not plus numbers have been actually pretty solid across the board. So i mean he hasn't really been you know again a superstar but he's been somebody that i think. A lot of teams would have no problem adding onto their lineup and one of the more popular second tier free agents one year removed from a career high year with thirty two homers and one hundred nine rb is so again. He's capable of big numbers. And if you really add that onto any lineup especially a contending team like the red sox i mean i think it would be a very different situation in the al as next year if he were to actually make his way to boston because i think that he would be exactly what they need. Kind of that added again it. Allama these guys would just be that extra kind of push that some of these teams need that extra cushion that they need that extra. Hey you know what we've already gone are superstars. But we're going to just add him in kind of as a safety net will and if things go wrong. We've got him. Sit hitting fifth or six in the lineup and all of a sudden we set ourselves up into a better situation i mean. His numbers aren't necessarily drastically decreasing. Right from two thousand seventeen to twenty twenty. His average has gone from two ninety two to eighty eight to seventy six to fifty seven. So it's it stayed in relative you know from that to fifty two two to three hundred level Obviously his first two years it was two sixty seven to sixty nine in that big jump to two ninety so kind of seen a little bit of a quick ascension and then a little bit of you know a little bit of a slow downward trend right now but again. I think that with this year with the season it was a little odd. It was a little weird. But i think that You know he's going to be somebody that is going to go back to those twenty nineteen numbers not to mention. We had three straight years of twenty four or more home runs. I mean at twenty four hundred eighteen. He had twenty seven in two thousand seventeen. And i mean he had seventy plus. Rbi's in both seasons so he's capable of big power hitting numbers and he's capable of really driving. Iran's being run producer. I think maybe the rangers could go after him. I mean they definitely need power in the outfield with Chew possibly departing in free agency could be you know again picked up for a very low price. I also think the royals michael taylor in the air In the outfield right. Now you need them hitting no question. I mean you need some hitting really really bad. If again michael. A taylor is going to give you a lot more of defense and a lot less of offense. And i think that's why a team like the royals would really benefit if they could get somebody like eddie rosario and who knows the royals could be plotting their next big Kind of window of opportunity to win by getting some of these. You know Forgotten if you will free agents. And i think that again Could eventually become a d. h. So you could stick them in the outfield. you could put him as a d. h. One of the two. But he's definitely got the numbers to be very good and he's definitely got the numbers to be somebody that on a very highly sought after a free agent in this year up. I without question honestly and the next guy wanted to discuss kind of a big name so many lives a little bit. More popular kyle shriver. That was a little bit of a shock for me. When i saw that the cubs we're going to just let him walk and again another planet seen a big downward trend in his career. And it's really been all over the place i think. He batted a career. Low one eighty eight this past year minus two games. He played in two thousand sixteen that was technically his career low but again he only played two games. So are we gonna really hold it over his head. What i think that shorter has so much potential. And i think that's what's very aggravating. About him is that he's got so much potential but he doesn't do anything about it he doesn't he doesn't actually put the ball in play. He doesn't actually put his bat on ball. I will say though. He had a monster season in two thousand nineteen thirty eight homers ninety two rb to fifty but he had a career high at eight seventy one and it's thirty eight homers and ninety two rbis all career highs so he did have a career year in twenty nineteen and again. I need to kind of get myself out of this notion of if you're batting of low to eighty five you're not that great of a hitter because baseball is not going in that direction anymore. You have to look at the o. Ps numbers a lot. More home runs the things like that. Slugging numbers and smoking percentage was through the roof and twenty nineteen as well so i think that he could be a hot commodity for a lot of teams because he does have the potential to be very good and he put up two straight years of eight hundred plus he also had you know from twenty seventeen to twenty nineteen. He had two of those three years with thirty plus homers as well. So he's definitely up capable power hitter. It's just that his his poor production recently is what's really. I think we kind of setting him back. But he's got such a high potential now going back to the cleveland indians again. I'll keep bringing them up because they don't want to spend a whole lot the a lot of these players. They can probably spend a fraction of what they would have to for other guys. Especially someone like francisco lindor and not to mention. They need power hitting in the outfield. They need that. And i think showroom brings that he's not a great fielder. I mean you watch him in the outfield and he is very poor at reading. Fly balls he either is too aggressive with charging them or he overruns them he's not great fielding but i think that you know with You know alex gordon retiring and the bubba starling performing horrendously for For the royals he. That's another team. That could potentially really use some power hitting in the outfield. Like i mentioned the and the royals these are going to be two teams. I think in the al central that are going to try and go after some of these lower rung second tier free agents because they know that this is kind of again a window of opportunity. If you will for these teams that could go after players that would probably and other years ask for a larger sum of money. I mean let's think about it. How schorr put on an absolute show in the in the world series in two thousand sixteen two thousand fifteen. Whenever i was twenty sixteen and absolutely put on a performance and a half but and in a lot of sense you know you could say. He's got the potential and i think that in any other situation if there's no pandemic there's no financial loss and all this other stuff that's been going on. He probably asked for a lot of money. But i think he's aware that he can't really ask for that right now. So i think the indians and the royals would be to interesting places for him to wind up on i again. I don't think he's gonna large contract but with the potential that he's got with the the home run hitting ability that he has and the the potential to be a run producer for any team. I think that's going to really draw a lot of is onto call schwarzer next guy another outfielder. We're going to keep going back with these features. A lot of them wound up getting non. Tenure knows actually very very shocked. Brian goodwin and i think brian goodwin is a sneaky. Good player. I think he's in my opinion one of the more reliable leadoff hitters if you stuck him at a leadoff role in any lineup. He's going to be very good for you. He's going to be very productive. Might not be great withdrawing walks you know might not be great with You know hitting home runs but if you got if you need a slap hitter who's going to at least be a an imposing presence at the plate for an opposing pitcher and somebody that an opposing pitcher would be somewhat worried about and say okay if this guy gets on base. You know who knows what's going to happen because he could advance you know he. Could you know ensure he's not again if you look at his numbers look at his career numbers. They're not staggering right. I mean in twenty twenty. He batted two fifteen twenty nine hundred sixty two two thousand eighteen to sixty six and then two thousand eighteen Excuse me in two thousand eighteen to thirty nine. But he added twenty to sixty two twenty nine hundred so you know a big jump from two thousand nine hundred thousand nine hundred and a huge digression from twenty nine hundred twenty twenty so he's coming off a career season though in two thousand nineteen because again only thirty years old or so and he's bad to sixty two career high. I'll take that. I think that's again. Not necessarily proven him to be worth a lot of money. But i think that he could be an added piece in any real lineup not to mention he brings experience. He brings some leadership to the plate to the table. And not a great fielder. He's got a decent bat. That could again be a solid lead off a spot for some teams where he could land probably the pirates again. This is somebody that i could see winding up on the pirates for a very low cost for very very low contract. He could provide leadership for a very young outfielder. I mean they've got a very young l. Fueled and i think that bringing somebody like brian goodwin is going to do a little bit better than bringing somebody like gerard dyson. I think that good is way better than dyson. Obviously is probably a better fielder. But i think overall is a better player and not to mention that. You need someone to tutor reynolds. You need somebody that's going to take talk under their wing especially tucker is going to be changing positions and going out into the outfield and of the infield he's had every year goodwin has had a negative defensive war so he's not a great fielder at all but he could again be a very solid piece in someone's lineup potentially and i could see him. Having some of this effective as time goes on he starts to get inserted onto teams lineups and he starts being a part of some teams. Big playoff runs kind of very similar to how we saw trying to think of some guys in the most recent years that you were picked up there kind of all i mean how weekender kind of comes to mind somebody that was picked up midseason or right before the season later in his career later in his years but he had a wild career resurgence and he was vital to the world. Series for the washington nationals. Same thing with brian goodwin. I think we could see that out of him. Potentially maybe not this year for a couple years but maybe down the road. He could be somebody. That's careers revitalized. Go somewhere again charlie. Morton another team. That are the guy that again on the way up until about two thousand eighteen. He wasn't really doing anything. Spectacular he gets put onto the you know world's to the houston astros. They win the world series in two thousand seventeen. He has back to back all star years in two thousand eighteen twenty nineteen then all of a sudden he's got a career research so goodwin could be somebody like that but where he'll land. I have no idea. I don't think he's going to be as highly sought after as someone like. Eddie rosario but i definitely think that goodwin will land somewhere decent at least the last guy i want to discuss and al comeback player of the year a couple years ago david doll former all-star he could be in my opinion one of the biggest gets on this list. Maybe the biggest. I mean if a team were to land all. I think that they would be sitting real pretty. He's coming off twenty nine thousand nine year where he was an all star. He batted three. Oh two at a five thousand four. Slugging percentage eight seventy seven p. s. fifteen homers and sixty one rbis and. He did a lot of damage for the rockies and again comeback player of the year he had sixteen homers and forty is in two thousand eighteen. I will say he's coming off an awful year in twenty twenty. I mean he. He did not bat above two hundred. He's got the star potential and he's got the capabilities of being somebody. That could be really really good and you could maybe find him on a contending team again he could be somebody like a franco. Who could be added onto a contending team. That's got some superstars on it on could also be someone like you know who knows. Maybe like a hands are burto another guy that could maybe be put onto a contending team and really be that kind of added peace somewhere down the road but i think that You know Doll getting a little overshadowed by all these other talented players. I think if this wasn't such a huge free agency market this year. I think dole would be one of the bigger names and again. This was definitely not the year he wanted to have going into free agency similar to college. Warburg not really making case very legitimate in trying to get a lot of money. I could possibly see doll landing on a like the tigers. I mean they are able to make some moves there. Maybe they could pay him a little bit on the could get if they were to get rid of cabrera or over the next few years that will really free up some payroll so they won't have to pay that contract as much and they definitely had of reliable consistent hitter with doll in that could nino. He could prove to be a difference maker and i think that the troy also another team. That's got a lot of pieces that they could work with just a matter of what they're going to do with that but again with his potential. I think that dole will lie. The doll will land somewhere. Pretty solid probably more salt than a lot of the other guys on this list. But we'll have to see where ultimately were he'll we're really all these guys are going to land because we've now entered into one of the probably larger free agent markets that i can remember with just a mass exodus of players. So we're going to see a lot of new faces in new places next season and i'm very excited to see where these guys land and what kind of teams. They call their new home for next year. So that will close things out here for us and our second segment here on the gmc baseball podcast. Thanks again for tuning in after the break. I'm going to get into some of the recent financial struggles this past year of the mlb and how the league financially will look next year and really moving forward from here. It's been a lot of fun so far but we got a lot more to go so don't change that channel. We'll be right back here on the gmc baseball podcast. Tired of watching the vast jungle of podcast. Now listen close and here without their the podcast network that covers just about everything that you've been searched. The golden state media concepts podcast network is here often. Let our podcast blitz with endless hours of podcast covered from news sports music fashion hooking entertainment and the football though much more still stop flirted around and go straight out to the golden state media concepts podcast network guaranteed deville. That podcast is whatever it may be visited at. www dot gs mc podcast dot com. Follow us on facebook and twitter and download on itunes doubt cloud and google play. Welcome back to the gmc baseball podcasts. Great to have you all here with me today jack right now again and in the last segment. I got into discussing some of the newest additions to the free agency market in which teams might take advantage of these newcomers in free agency. I wanna know dive into discussing. What baseball financially looked like this past year and really currently today then where they might wind up After this offseason what the mlb will do to really correct this financial problem that they've been having and really. It's been induced pandemic as we know i mean this. This pandemic has really affected everything and baseball this past year. I mean they took a real big hit. And i remember when they were first trying to figure out the collective bargaining agreement. They were trying to figure out the stark date to the season. All kinds of the ins and outs of this year. They could not come to an agreement and seeing a lot of things that if baseball doesn't start soon they're going to lose massive amounts of money and they actually did lose quite a bit of money. I mean between the thirty teams. There's about eight point. Three billion dollars of debt from different lenders and they'll have to post about two point eight to three billion in losses in total and in general i think they actually also lost about three point one billion dollars as a whole so losing three billion dollars and i was actually reading an article. A lot of people were saying you know people will say well. You know these billionaires they can take that hit and of this article said that's not it's easier said than done. That's not necessarily the case you know. That's a lot of money for some of these Owners in these teams to lose and it's really affected baseball not to mention before this pandemic baseball was not really in a great financial situation. I mean baseball's overall attendance in general has been going down each and every single year actually dropped year over the last five seasons. So i mean that's a huge huge decline over the last couple of years. And especially for america's pastime. It's kind of unfortunate to that. You know being being a baseball fan like myself growing up and watching baseball going to games constantly. You know. I mean you kind of work. Your head. scratch is why people aren't going to games more often. It's the main sport of the summer. Nobody else's playing. There's no other athletics going on so it just as always kind of been a An interesting and intriguing thing to me that baseball continues to lose money and lose people's interest and i know that they've tried to meander their way through with with changing rules and adding new things and taking things out and the universal d. h. Obviously this year you know having the pitch count on the or having the clock for the pitcher how many how many seconds it takes for them to get back on the mound and get back into a set and everything else so. They've tried to do things to make baseball a little bit. More appealing and a little bit more. Not as slow and drawn out these people think it is and in all honesty. I don't blame the mlb for doing that. I definitely think that that is a very fair and logical thing to say that you know. Yeah we need to do some changes. We need to switch baseball up a little bit but at the same time you have to keep it unique you have to keep it baseball and i think that some of the rules that they've tried to implement kind of takes away from what baseball is but i know that they're doing for a financial reason and there's obviously things that you know. They understand much more than i do. But think about all of the losses that baseball teams and really just the mlb had this year. You had concession stands gone Drinks food beverages gone. You had merchandise at the team. Stores gone ticket sales gone. You had all of that. Just out of the window. Could not pay and i actually again. I brought this up many times. It's because he's the only one that i know who has gone to a professional sporting event during this pandemic my buddy who went to the world series i mean he paid a arm and a leg for tickets and he was saying that tickets were going at the highest. I think he said you. You have to buy them enforce force. You have to buy them in a pod. They call them. And you have to buy them enforce and i think that of a group of four tickets is over a thousand dollars if not more and that's probably going to be a generic price for some of these you know seasons and for some of these teams coming up this year. If they're allowed to have fans back they're going to put a large price on it because they have to cover their losses. And i was actually reading a couple other things where rob manfred was saying that if baseball were to have a similar season that did this past year it could be detrimental to baseball and i immediately. You know obviously went worst case scenario when you read that. And you're like well what's going to happen to baseball is baseball going to crumble. Or are they not gonna have baseball anymore is that is baseball going to become obsolete. I really don't think that could ever happen. I really don't think in any lifetime. We could see of sport go obsolete because of financial reasons because there's going to be so many players are going to try and keep it around. There's gonna be they'll be things done. That will stop baseball from ultimately crumbling to the ground if that were to happen. But i really don't think that will because again they're spending so much time right now on it. The probably going through business plan after business plan and i mean sure another season like this could pose massive issues but if the vaccine comes out and then team started implementing. Hey you have to get test area. You have to be vaccinated or whatever it might be an order to go to these sporting events things are going to open back up to normal things are going to go back to normal and so as a result baseball. We'll go back to normal and i know that this year they really try to correct this and they really try to figure out ways that they could keep fans engaged in. Keep fans intrigued and interested in the team and really still supporting it. I know there was a large emphasis on kind of trying to keep season ticket. Holders interested in keeping their interest at level and they did the cardboard cutout with the fans. I know that the pittsburgh pirates they did something very very unique Where they did basically if you had a baseball hit your cardboard cutouts. They would send a letter to you with the baseball saying. Hey you're cardboard. Cutout was a lucky winner of a baseball or whatever and they would send it to you in the mail. So teams got creative. And i definitely think that i know that there were some teams that were charting of absolute fortune for cardboard cutout. I think that The dodgers they thought about having i think cardboard cutouts go for anywhere between one hundred twenty five bucks a ticket to two hundred twenty five dollars a ticket and you're paying to have your cardboard cutout game who knows if you'll be able to be seen on tv not to mention. You're not actually there now. What i think we could have been very interesting. That they could have done is this. Maybe they could've done something where they gave an access code and they put little again. This would probably costlo fortunate but if there was some way where they could keep it in a very low cost and they had like these little kind of camera quarters or Or camcorders or Like these little laptop monitors that they put on each chair and you'd have to pay a little bit extra for it but you would be able to actually view the game from your seat as if you were there and put your at the confines of your home. I think that would be something very interesting. I know that. I've mentioned before teams. Maybe getting creative in trying to do kind of frontier for fans that are outside of that market you know paying a little subscription towards the team and saying hey because everything is subscription base now. Hey pay a little monthly fee or a seasonal fee or a game fee or whatever. It might be nothing crazy but in order to access your team and be like you're at the game you have to pay this access code. I think that would be very interesting to do. But i think that they're really trying to bring in more money. And and with the loss of ticket sales i think that's been detrimental and i think that if they are able to try and figure out somehow someway where they could regain some of this money back. I know that. Tv deals is a huge thing. I know that turner sports has got a jain normally at the mlb right now paying them. Hundreds of millions of dollars a year. Same thing with with fox fox has got a massive deal with the so you know the mlb. He's got a lot on their plate. They really have a lot of people that are trying to make sure that they stay afloat and that means these situations. Don't come to a point where it's oh my god. We don't have enough money to put together a season. Like how are we kind of this issue of. I don't wanna say like someone like the xfl because obviously it's a little bit different because smaller league developmental league for different sport totally different situation but something like that for baseball. I mean that could be really scary and not to mention. We have to also factor into this minor league baseball. I mean how many losses have they taken this year and how many heads they've taken. I mean you already saw coming into the year. They're were going to take some financial losses because of the earned forty teams that were taken away in the farm system. But now you've got you had over thousand minor leaguers work you've had You know more teams start to get next and more teams starting to pretty much close up shop and shore. The mlb has done a nice job. I think recently with trying to bring that back out. You know you've got the wood badly coming out and you've got a couple other things that are on the horizon for minor league baseball and for prospect baseball and such. But there's going to have to be something that they can try to do to try and offset this. I don't know if this would ever be a possibility but you know. Could we see a day. Where baseball eventually gets a salary or a salary cap and all of a sudden players are starting to make similar money to other athletes. Because in all honesty baseball players. Make a abnormal amount of money. I noticed one hundred and sixty two game season. I know that it's an everyday grind. And i know that it's a very very challenging thing to do being away from your family that often being on the road constantly. But you're not necessarily putting your body into a physical poll that a guy like on a basketball team or a football team would do imagine playing a one hundred and sixty two game football season. You couldn't do that. Magic playing one hundred sixty two game basketball season. You can also not do that so again. There's a reason why baseball's able to be played that much. Maybe we'll see a day. Where they nick some of those games and they bring it down from one hundred and sixty two games to you know maybe one hundred and forty five or one hundred thirty and then they start kind of as years go on dropping them down lower and lower You know that could be a possibility we could see baseball started to shorten its years so because if the players want to continue to make the same amount of money then the then the owners will say well. We're going to have to play a fraction of the games because we just can't financially afford to pay you guys this amount of money for this amount of games so and then as a result you've got players that are upset about that in this that and the other and nobody's happy so the owners and the players. I think are going to be very key in the finances. Moving forward and think rob i have said the so many times rob manfred needs to be the voice that steps in and says this is what we're doing. He needs to take role and take a leadership i recently. He's been doing a little bit better but he needs to be a little bit more aggressive and a little bit more of a leader instead of just kind of being in my opinion very passive. I think he's very passive commissioner. So i think if he's able to try and take the bull by the horns and he's able to come to some sort of agreement whether it's okay for the next two or three years you know it's going to be a prorated salary. i remember. They were talking about that. Basically where they pay you kind of on a tapering scale. You know. maybe they'll do that. Maybe maybe contracts will be renegotiated where it'll taper them and they'll pay this amount of money for this year but then if they're able to make this amount of money back. That is the team then. They can pay them a little bit more of that contract for the next year. Whatever it might be. I think you could also see teams not go after guys that have high value. I think that you know again. We might see a couple years where some of these you know. Lower market mid market teams. They can't afford these big name players and then as a result he's bigger market teams. They can obviously pay for them and so baseball becomes a little. Lopsided becomes very top heavy because of the financial situation. Another thing that. I'm curious about is. How long will it take for baseball to get out of this financial hole and if if it's going to be a five year plan if if it's a ten year plan if it's a two year plan that's a lot of again other variables you have to put into it whether or not they're going to pay managers on the same scale as players are front office executives going to be making as much money in. You're obviously going to have players that are going to speak up and say something about you. Know if they don't feel like they're getting paid the fair amount of money or whatever it might be rightfully. So if you don't feel like you're getting paid what you should be getting paid. You should speak up and say something about it. And i think that at the end of the day raw again i come back to rob manfred rob manfred is going to be the most instrumental person in all of this and he can really bring baseball out of the dark ages. It's kind of in the dark age right now. And obviously i mean in general. We're kind of in a very bleak time but it's again there's a light at the end of the tunnel were around. The bend weren't getting better. Things are on the up and up about everything i think. at least. That's the opinion i take of it. But you still have to factor in that you know. Baseball is still trying to scramble around. They're trying to figure out Just all these different factors into the season. Now here's another thing. That i just thought of and this could play a role in but i know the nhl has talked about doing an outdoor league for for hockey. This could pose a massive problem for baseball because the grounds crew for for baseball teams. They're going to want those hockey guys off the field. They have to use the mlb field which they probably will. They've done it before. Offer these outdoor classics. So if they do that and the and then what if we got an issue where the mlb versus the nhl who has more right you know because the you know the nhl could argue. Well this is technically are season the be say well. We need time to prepare for this upcoming season. I mean the it could happen. It could definitely happen. That could be something that is talked about. I did hope that ultimately baseball next five years is able to get a better turn out and that maybe some of these rules that are implemented in some of these new guidelines that the moebius starting to implement universal deage minimum of three batters faced for a pitcher stuff like that. you know. maybe that'll start bringing baseball back to life a little bit. People will like those rule changes and it could change for the better. I just hope that eventually something done. Because i mean these financial losses losing billions of dollars and still having these hundred millions of dollars of contracts on a yearly basis with these huge broadcasting networks. I mean it's just not. It's not a good recipe for the next couple years financially so hopefully they can figure it out because i would really really hate to see baseball. Go by the wayside. So that'll do for this segment folks. Thanks for sticking around but stay right there because we'll be right back after this commercial break for the final segment today which will include me discussing a hypothetical scenario which is which pitcher would. You rather have to start in a playoff game. I will give a couple of candidates before selecting who i would want in that situation. Don't go anywhere everyone because we've got one last segment here on the gmc baseball podcast. One another the latest docker that listened to the golden state media kong theft knocker podcast from m. l. at the world and the premier league got you covered the latest update as matches news on the league's poplar at the golden state media concept. Docker podcast them. Hey everyone and welcome back for the final segment here on the gmc baseball podcast. Jack right now we're still with you in the previous segment. I got right into discussing the recent finances of the baseball year and really baseball this past season and what the future holds financially for the mlb. I want to close out the show today discussing which pitcher. I would rather have to start a playoff game. Who would i trust the most in a situation where. I needed a win in the series. And i had to throw my go-to gone on the mount. So i'll mention a couple of guys and then i'm going to dive into which one i would probably want in the most ideal situation so the first guy i've got a mentioned as clayton kershaw. I mean i know that he's gone. A lot of flack over the years. And i know that he has gotten a lot of negative notoriety if you will for his performance in the playoffs but in all honesty this past year the guy actually set a couple records one of them being. He's now holds the record for most career strikeouts in a postseason career with two hundred six and counting. So he's actually funny enough. He's had a very lustrous career in the playoffs. Now that probably has a lot to do with the fact that he's played on the dodgers. He's got a ton of experience pitching in that situation. He's been on the stage before he's pitched in world series. He's pitched in championship series. He's pitched in division series. He's pitched in at all except for probably a wild card game well. He's actually pitched in one wild card game so he's pitched on every single level of baseball and i think that he's definitely a guy that you would wanna throw on the mound in a situation where it's who do. I need to go to. If if i need to get a win if i absolutely need to keep my team's chances alive in this situation and in this series who am i going to go to. This past year arguably was one of his best seasons in the playoffs really since twenty thirteen. I mean has. Era stayed below four for the entirety of the playoffs. He has not done that since again. Twenty thirteen as we saw twenty thousand. He really struggled. I mean he had a seven point one era and then in twenty eighteen and four point two era in the entire playoffs. He wound up having a he got a four point. Four he's got a four point one nine era in his career in the playoffs again. Two hundred and actually seven strikeouts now And then only fifty walks so a pretty solid ratio from strikeout k. Or walk to care or strikeout to walk ratio so something. That is again something to pay attention to. Now he's given up. A decent amount of home runs over his playoff career twenty-eight not a crazy amount but there's been some years where he's really struggled with that issue now there's also been some other years where he's really struggled. Era wise as we see in two thousand fourteen ten point eight year after the first game. He played restarted in. And then the next game. He started in a seven point eight to so. That's really not averaging out to something very good at all. Now we do see in two thousand thirteen. that was probably his best year in the playoffs in an entirety. Obviously he played two more games or so or one more game in twenty twenty than he did in two thousand thirteen. So it kinda give or take with him right. I think that he's definitely mean. He's a very capable pitcher of winning in the big moments. i mean. he's a cy young winner. You know he's been a multiple time all star He's one triple crown before he's won the mvp before so somebody that has definitely been able to do a lot of damage. He's got a great deception. With his windup. Which i've always felt was honestly the reason why he's so good is that nobody knows what he's throwing. People don't realize that pitchers rotation is everything for a lot of reasons and one of them is being able to not tip off your pitches. And i think that is kind of the main thing with some pitchers. Is that some guys know that you're going to throw a change up. Some guys know that you're going to throw fastball. But he keeps his his up very consistent. And i think that is a big key in his success. He's had a lot of injury problems. So that is something to pay attention to. If you were to look into the situation of okay do i. Who do i need to go to. In the situation. He might be injured. He might have an injury issue. So i definitely think that you know obviously the records and accolades and and the experience all backup him being a playoff starter but you also have to factor and he has struggled in the past. He has had problems in the in previous seasons with giving up a lot of runs. Giving up a lot of hits. I mean this past year. He did a solid job. There was only one game where he gave up seven hits and everything else was six and below. I mean yeah the game where he gave up only three hits the game more. You only gave up two hits but there's been other seasons where no he's given up at least two heads in every single game he's pitched or he's given up at least four his in every single game that he's pitched i mean twenty fourteen again. We'll go back to. That year was an absolutely atrocious year for him. And and i think that you know yeah in those two games. He had ten ks and nine ks respectively in the two games. He started but at ten point. Eight year reign a seven point. Eight era then is not acceptable at all so definitely would think about starting kershaw. He's definitely one of the more Power pitching pitchers in the mlb. One of the better pitchers in the mlb. You know somebody that is going to probably eventually be a hall of famer without questioning if you win. Three cy youngs. Mvp and eight time all star and the triple crown. You're probably going to be in the hall of fame. So i'm gonna go with one of them being clayton kershaw. I'm not gonna say. He's my selection. But i'm going to go with him by next guy that i would go to possibly max scherzer obviously does not have nearly as experience as clayton kershaw very similar accolades. Three time cy young. He's a seven time all star. He's won a world series. He's never won an mvp but he's still been very very good in his career as well twenty nineteen. He had a pretty solid playoff run as the playoffs. Got deeper and deeper. And i think that is something to pay attention to about max. Scherzer is that he seems to for the most part his number seems to increase or at least get better as the playoffs. Go on an twenty nine. That was the case. I mean after his first start he gave up five point four era and his last art. It was all the way down to a two point four. Era so a whole three run difference in his era from his first start in two thousand nineteen of the playoffs to his last start again. A great sign half same thing in two thousand seventeen. I mean very similar. Although it trended in the other direction it's still stayed below four in two thousand sixteen another case he had six. Era in his first start and then he went to a three point seven five era in his second start so he is able to progress forward and really kind of improve the playoffs. Go on. he's got experience. Also pitching in a world series. He's capable of being in that big stage and he's actually been a winner of world series games now. He's only won one world series game. But i still think that at the end of the day a one one win is better than no wins. And he's only he's only pitching a couple of world series games but again he's pitching in numerous. You know a playoff situations and in all honesty. He's not that far behind in career. Strikeouts against clayton kershaw. He's got one hundred and thirty seven career strikeouts not to mention he's got a better career. Era in the playoffs clayton. Kershaw does with a three point three eight clip so a guy that does a pretty solid job limiting runs and keeping the strikeouts pretty high. And he's got a couple of less walks than clayton. Kershaw does well so in all honesty. I think sure saw is all sherzer. Kershaw are two guys. That would definitely be at the top of my list in terms of who i would want going in in a decisive game or in a just a general playoff game and i think that he's somebody that you know. I mean if you look at twenty thousand nine again. I ca i hate continuing to bring it up but that was the year that the nationals won the world series and that was really the best he pitch i mean he started in four games and he had only one no decision he really was a whole the actually the only pitch that one inning so he actually started in four games air five games. Excuse me he was. He started in five games. He picked up three wins. He was three and did not get along the entire time and not to mention every game that he pitched in they want whether it's one inning or seventy s. It didn't matter every game. He pitched in the nationals. One so again. That should show you something about max scherzer. The problem with him is this he is. He is very very prone to giving up a large amount of runs in a half inning in a bottom half an top half he's again. I've mentioned this before. He's one of those one hit pitchers where if it's just it takes one head. And then all of a sudden that era that they had two point five two point eight skyrockets to four point. Two in everyone's saying well. He's such a pitcher wise. Era so high is because he's a one hit pitcher. He gets two guys on base and he surrenders a home run. All of a sudden. He's given up three runs off of just one hit though in that bottom inning. But then usually scherzer's settles down after that he's able to kind of get into a groove and he's got great deception with his pitching very similar to kershaw except not as much with the wind up. It's more so the actual pitches that he's throwing. I think that he could be somebody. That could really do a lot of damage in any sort of playoff situation. So i would definitely start him in a playoff scenario my next guide obviously justin verleger kershaw. Verleger sherzer are three clear-cut decisions than i would make in terms of who i would want. Starting in a playoff game at the bare minimum and burland nurse similar to kershaw assures to another guy that really he brings the heat he probably. I mean you could argue that he throws a little bit harder than kershaw maybe Especially with all the injuries occur shows had but berliners also had a lot of problems himself. I mean he was out this entire year with an injury. He's also cy young winner. He's a triple crown winner. An mvp so again. A third pitcher. That has been at least a cy young winner and a triple crown and a all star very elastic. Except you know max scherzer not getting the illustrious triple crown. He still one one or two more. Cy youngs than justin verge. One more salient than justin verlander has but again very three very very similar pitchers in a lot of senses. And i think that having verloren was going to do a lot of justice because he's had the most recent success in my opinion next kershaw obviously an insurance her. But i think that in terms of i mean berliner was virtually unstoppable in two thousand seventeen in the playoffs for the astros. I mean his era. When the highest it win was a three point. One two it was never was higher than that. I mean he absolutely just dominated in two thousand seventeen now in two thousand nineteen. It was a very steady year for him. I mean he had the first game that he started didn't give up a single run than his era jumped to three point three then back down three point one than three point seven four point one four point three so it fluctuated a lot in twenty nineteen. He's also getting older as sherzer and kershaw. All three of them are getting older. But that's the beauty of being a pitcher. You can pitch later into your career and not really have to worry about anything. Now you do. Get a very detrimental. Injury been. That could definitely pose a lot of issues. I would say that if any of them had a serious injury and had to get another tommy. John surgery that would probably be the end all be all for their career. Really just their prime if you will. But the issue with berliner is he is also very susceptible to giving up a lot of runs. I mean in the first two years that he was in the playoffs in two thousand and six and two thousand eleven. His era was everywhere. It never dipped below five. It was five and above the entire time. So i mean in that. That's you know five games and ten games that he pitched in or excuse me. That's eight games that he pitched in in in a course of two years of the playoffs and his era was above five the entire time not really numbers that you would usually see not very characteristic at least of cy young winner and that is a multiple cy young winner now in two thousand twelve at went way back down. I mean it was. This was probably the best year that he's had pitching in the playoffs. In only four games he has never touched higher than two point two. It was one point to the next game. It was zero point five than zero point seven and then two point two again and mind you. He only had one game in that. Two thousand twelve playoffs where he pitched under four innings. So he's going seven innings nine innings eight and a third going deep into the game and he's surrendering little runs very little runs and he's going up against very good teams. I mean that twenty twelve postseason. You know in. That world series played against the giants. Obviously the giants won at that year. But you know those were some very good giants teams the yankees the athletics so he went up against some pretty formidable opponents and held his own so justin verlander definitely other guy that i would one hundred percent. Consider that very similar to or sherzer. He's very Capable of of giving a big time home runs he's kind of a big Homerun surrendering pitcher if you will so. I think that's definitely another thing to factor in with ver- lander but i think all in all all three of them are very very legitimate choices. Now the last guy. I'm picking not nearly the level of career that the other three have had in the playoffs. You could argue that. He's probably been as good if not better than them in at least the last two years the playoffs. And that's charlie morton charlie moore again a two time all star world series champ. He played in the world series this past year. His era has since two years of the plus in twenty nine hundred. His era never went higher than point nine and then in two thousand twenty. His eerie never one higher than two point seven. It was actually at one point. Eight zero point nine zero point five and then back up to two point. Seven so charlie morton is again another prime example of somebody that you want to have in the game in a pivotal situation not to mention. I believe he's got the career high or he's got the most ever wins in a starting situation In in a game deciding of matchup in a series he has the most wins for a starting pitcher four five. Maybe six something like that. But he's one quite a bit of games in those game deciding situations and i think that's what is so unique about morton is that although he is getting older although he's up in age he is still somebody that is going to get the job done. He can get win for you. He's probably a little bit more reliable of a winner in recent memory than the other three. I would not say that in any sort of regard. He's better than them or that. Their numbers are not better than his. I mean their numbers career wise way better than him. And his co. and their playoff numbers are way better than him also. I still think that charlie morton should be given some recognition for this because he has been instrumental in the success of a few world series contending teams and i think that is what makes him so unique now before two thousand nine hundred not very good playoff performer. I mean in two thousand eighteen. The one game he started eleven point five. Era twenty thirteen. The one game he started had three point one. Era so again. It's kind of hit or miss all the way up until twenty nine thousand nine and then recently he's been on an absolute hair and he's kind of come out of nowhere if you will I think that he's definitely somebody that you would want to take into consideration. But all in who i would ultimately want to have starting in this situation i would probably go ultimately with somebody like it's going to be hard. I'm probably going to go with somebody like kershaw. I would go with kershaw because of again. Obviously all the success. He's had the numbers he's put up but the sheer experience. I think that is something that should definitely be taken into account heavier than than the accolades and this that and the other he has the experience playing and pitching in that very very intense moment and very just on the nerve wracking situation. He's capable of doing it. And so as a result. I think that he is the number one option to have to start. In that case. I would not be too disinclined to put charlie morton as a close second. I think that again recently. He's been somebody that you could. Argue is a reliable starting pitcher in a playoff game. he has done it especially in game signing situations. He's really good at it. Sure and berliner are two guys that i think that could also be very good but i think just with what worries me is that they have the capability of again being those one hit pitchers where it just takes one big head. And that's all she wrote. And that is you know instead of some of these other guys like kershaw or charlie morton where it's usually a hit after hit after hit. It's a couple consecutive hits. That really gets them into a whole Earlier it's just one swing and that's all she wrote. So i think that sherzer in berlin are still options that you'd want to start but in terms of just experience and just fear will ongoing with kershaw and then a very close second charlie more than probably after that you know. Probably berliner and then sherzer. I mean it would be very close with who'd be third and fourth. You could probably interchange the too but it's not it's not it's not by a landslide in any situation. I mean all four of them would be ideal to have in any starting situation of a playoff. So that's just my opinion a couple of guys that i threw out a couple of guys. At least i made a lot of noise in the playoffs last few years. But you know let me know who you think could be potentially a great starting pitcher to have in this situation because there's probably numerous people that i left off this list but just wanted to touch on a couple and really share what i thought. Give some background gives some evidence and then ultimately make my selection. So that'll wrap it up for us here today. Thank you again for listening to the gmc baseball. Podcast brought to you by the gmc. Podcast network. i would like to ask that you. Please remember to subscribe to the show and write a nice little review. That really helps us. Also if you can please follow us on facebook twitter and instagram. We'd really appreciate that. Thank you again. Everybody and until next time keep on having a great day and keep staying safe and healthy. You've been listening to the golden state media concept baseball. Podcast part of the golden state media concepts podcast network. You can find this show and others like it at. www dot g empty podcast dot com download. Our podcast on stretchers down clock and google play type in empty to find all the shows from the golden state media concepts podcast network removing to music thrown sport entertainment and even we are news. You can also follow us on twitter and on facebook. Thank you and we hope you have enjoyed today's program.

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