35 Burst results for "Osama"
Sudan Says Military Coup Thwarted; Dozens of Troops Arrested
"Admiral to lead the lead story breaking news out of israel. This morning hadn't even made it in. The american press yet sudan claims to thwart military coup attempt. Many officers detained. Now i bring this up because sudan long ago and far away Harbored osama bin laden under a radical islamist regime. Have you been to khartoum. You're usually been to everywhere. Have you been to cartoon. I have not. He'd finally finally finally about. I'm not surprised because it was an islamist dictatorship forever right exactly. I think if. I'd said yes. You should have been very suspicious. Well why do we care about places like guinea and sudan. When coups happened admiral because the overall rule of law we wanna foster in the international community at breaks norms when elected governments of whatever stripe are overthrown be geo-strategically. We've seen again and again in these coup ridden contres bad actors bleed into it because they're largely ungoverned spaces in so many cases and we've that from afghanistan to libya to syria today to sudan. I fear for it in western africa. Guinea so i think those are the two principal reasons we oughta be concerned. One is philosophical political the others practical military beginning mogadishu or other failed states. But i do know you can give us a fairly good idea. What is living in a failed state. Like it's pretty much like what you saw in kabul over the last few weeks it masses of people desperation in their eyes extreme poverty armed gangs open trucks with skinny teenagers. Driving around with ak47's i'm describing both parts of east and west africa at this point all of those factors are part of this breakdown in lawlessness that audit concern very deeply in in all of these
"osama" Discussed on The Lawfare Podcast
"Be a strict for further investigation as to whether the current chain of command system and the goldwater-nichols actually works in wartime my two questions. I you mentioned failures of leadership and specifically focused on the president and secretary rumsfeld but the third major leader civil military operation but a civil military intelligence organization was george. Tenet the director of the cia. So i'd like to know what you see is his role and terms of leadership during this period of time because he was just as much involved as as the others were in that. And then my second. Actually i'll leave that take too much time already. Thank you sure so. The question is is the role of of george tennis director. I did not interview. George tenet. But i get it into into interview his deputy john mclaughlin and we talk about this in some detail and george tenet and john mclaughlin and the general spearheaded the war effort in afghanistan. They formulated the plan. They maintained relationships. I mean formula to plan maintain. The relationships put people on the ground and pave the way for what ultimately occurred and at tora bora for the first time price. Since the vietnam war we had civilian intelligence officers spearheading a war effort until special operations. Got there so a very rare instance. The cia had a major role. I'm not too familiar. With general or sorry with with george tenet's specific relationship with the president. I wish i could tell you more about it. I think that what i know is either in the book or its end. George tenet's memoir. There was a lot of engagement between them and the cia. I believe is a little more of a flat organization in terms of information. So lots of information got in from on the ground to see to cata tourism center and that was cofer black and had crompton. They were often at an se meetings and very often they were the ones who are briefing. The president. I don't know where george tenet fell into that ultimately but when i talked to john mclaughlin about it. My understanding from him is that he did not recall very much about the request for eight hundred rangers tora bora so what his individual on the ground in afghanistan was requesting eight hundred rangers officer. It was not coming up to him in the same way that we would expect it to come where the filter is again. As i mentioned before. I don't know i'll offer my two cents on this subject. I reread georgia's memoirs last night on the subject and high quoted. You one passage where he says. One of the most brilliant successes in the agency history. He also in a passage. I think two pages later says but we failed to get the most important target so he acknowledges in his book. The dichotomy that we started with brilliant success vis-a-vis the taliban and a botched operation to get the mastermind responsible for the bloodiest day in american history. But step back for a minute. George tenant in one hundred and two days here is in pretty awkward position first of all. He's a holdover. I've been a hold over. Holdover means you in the previous administration and for some reason they decided that you were gonna keep you into the next administration. I'm gonna hold over three times. It's very very awkward. Business first of all you go to a lot of meetings where everybody sits around the table and says those previous guys were in this room. We're all a bunch of idiots and of course you're sitting there saying i guess they don't really meet me everybody else talking about secondly you know from day one. They're thinking a lot about who's gonna replace holdover x. Who's stale here. So you're ten. Your your tenure. In office is open to a lot more question than everybody else. In the room in georgia's case. Of course there's another factor. See i just had its biggest intelligence failure arguably of all time nine eleven many many people in this country in september two thousand and one. We're calling for george tenants head They wanted this man. Fired president decided. He needed him and that he wanted to kiko. That creates a pretty interesting dynamic. Between your i who is now kind of hanging twisting in the wind and your president. It's not an enviable position for either. One of them to have been more questions right here. British for bbc news. You mentioned joshua hammered attack on indian parliament. Yes what am considering moments. Very close. relationship with intelligence agency is what would they have hoped achieve at. That point considering blown war was on in their neighborhood refuses boring into pakistan. So what did you get some idea about that. I didn't look into it too closely. To be honest. I mean there is the conspiracy theory that they were really just trying to open the back door for osama bin laden the nfc covering this very close. And maybe you can provide more insight. Great question for those of you. Who are not specialist in josh mohammed. Josh mohammed was formed in the aftermath of an earlier terrorist operation the hijacking of an indian airliner which was hijacked out of cotton. Undo the paul flu around the subcontinent to left-wing trip out to dubai and came back to candar. The demands of the hijackers were very specific for the release of three individuals. One of whom would go on to found josh mohammed. Who's still alive. Who still very active when he was released by the government was brought to kandahar hostages. Were released and he was turned over. He was immediately turned over to the isi and taken on a fundraising tour across pakistan to raise funds for josh muhammad so to say the josh muhammad and the isi have a close relationship is barely to begin to describe how close this relationship is now. We don't know what the purpose of the attack on the indian parliament is but it's pretty hard to take at face value the assertions of government that they knew nothing about it that they weren't involved in it that this was all serendipity that suddenly occurred at that time it's to me one of the one of the most interesting questions about the whole first period right after nine eleven. Because i can. I can make an argument to you that the whole purpose of attack was to make it possible for osama bin laden lamar and the rest of these people get away by distracting attention away from the eastern borders the western borders of pakistan to the eastern borders of pakistan. I can't prove it. But this is a pretty powerful circumstantial case ex question to the ladies. Bruce you're my favorite holdover but my question is to the author. Thank you for your presentation and i. I would appreciate it if you could clarify something that i didn't quite hear. I think you were pointing to the impact of human emotions when you refer to one of your mentors ice. And who went with steve hadley to a nine eleven site. I don't know which one but he got a telephone call. And i simply lost. Hearing what was the content of the telephone call. Was it of vermouth of report of another attack. That was planned so when he was in new york city at the nine eleven site a couple of weeks later he was with vice president cheney and he received a phone call saying that the white house sensors that detect biological attacks went off and apparently it was botulinum which is one of the world's most deadly biological agents if you have a proper type of botulinum and you were to spread it out evenly could kill a million people in one small one gram vial super super potent so the question was whether it was real or whether it was a false alarm and they were testing on mice if the mice survived after something like twenty four hours then everybody was okay if they were feet up in the white house was going to die and so he had to go at nine eleven sites and go informed vice president cheney and they had to go together and talk with the president about how to plan for the line of succession. I think that. I mean there was a after nine eleven then telling threshold for what made it to the president in terms of threats went way.
"osama" Discussed on The Lawfare Podcast
"From western pakistan to eastern pakistan. Now anyone who is involved in planning that attack on the indian parliament knew that at a minimum that would happen a maximum. It might have started a war between india and pakistan and one of the most interesting unresolved questions yves talks about it. But he doesn't have the answer. I don't have the answer either. Is who made that happen. Who came up with that decision. And what role did osama bin laden play that. Sorry to disappoint you. the answer. That question is not in this book. It's probably in the archives of the isi and those are planned to be open to the world sometime. Well actually. there is no plan to ever open simpler. Let's step back from this for a minute. Because i think one of the interesting things you do at the end of the book is contrast president bush's handling of this operation in tora bora in two thousand one with president obama's handling of the raid to go after osama bin laden in two thousand eleven. And just quote what you say. Ultimately the manner in which george w bush and barack obama interacted with their military subordinates shaped the outcomes of their operations to kill or capture osama bin laden president bush's and secretary rumsfeld's absent role in the battle of tora. Bora insured bin. Laden's escape will president obama's active involvement in the book about raid prevented the operation from going iraq. Say a little more about contrasting styles and what president obama did. The president. Bush didn't do share. I do want to point out initially that these are very different. Circumstances nation was at war in a moment of crisis in nine eleven and at tora bora that was not the same case in two thousand eleven. And planning the raid. They're different circumstances but what brings them together is. Both presidents had an opportunity to go. After bin laden there was a level of uncertainty and both had to deal with the military and going forward. I mentioned a little bit already. That president bush and secretary rumsfeld were not engage at all at what was going on tora bora in contrast when you look at the way. President obama handles the military. He had a level of active active involvement. That really got out down into practically every detail as you may know when the abbad rate occurred at the two helicopters were moving towards the compound. The first one went down and it actually crashed at to crash. Land was disabled. while during the planning process. President obama looked at the resources dedicated for the battle. And he said i'm sorry. This is not enough. We don't have enough individuals to allow the seals to battle the way out of pakistan. If they have to. And we don't have enough resources in case something goes wrong. So he specified that up to four additional helicopters. Were to go on the raid to landed in the middle of nowhere and pakistan's at a riverbed and waited too on the afghan side. That first helicopter went down. The other one was ready to go came over immediately. It's about a. I think a ninety minute flight. I'm sorry maybe forty five minute flight about about it took the pakistani military much less than that time to respond to the the downed aircraft message. So had there not been those those helicopters there we have been looking at a major international incident where navy seals were battling pakistani military forces. They could have been an extraordinarily different difficult circumstance and because president obama really got down in the details we can say the operation went off without a major hitch. I do want to say so that this can be looked at really politically. And i don't mean for it to be that case. Because president obama or president bush really felt filled his role and stepped into it. As you got more involved into his into his presidency. If you look at the way that he handled the surge in two thousand six in two thousand seven he listened to the military advice and he overruled them and so he did get down into the details. He did examine the information necessary. And i think he did the right thing so. I hope that it's not considered a political comparison. Because it's just two different instances in time where they're both going after bin laden underscore that point. This is this is not an advertisement for the dnc and after president obama's now running again so it'd be a waste of the dnc. He's tired what it is trying to do. Is take a look at leadership role of leadership and the lessons that we can learn from all of this to be fair to the bush administration. They were responding to an extraordinary event. The attack of nine eleven which created a sense of panic in the united states. They nervous breakdown if you wanted to. There was a sense that any moment there could be another attack on the united states of america. President obama in two thousand eleven was in a very different place. There wasn't a sense of imminent threat to the united states homeland and he had the opportunity to spend as much time as he wanted to before he decided to send in the seals. If he'd wanted to wait another month he there was. Nobody was no pressure coming from the outside world because none of us knew what he and his inner circle knew that they had a reasonable belief that they'd found a lot so accepting these differences. I think that the other big question. That i just want to close my part of this interview with you is. What are the lessons learned if you look at two thousand one. A failure of the counter terrorism mission. What lessons can we learn from out about future counterterrorism missions and future military operations and intelligence operations like this show actually like to go back to point and very quickly before i address it. One of my professors who i consider close mentor wasn't a high level position during this time in two thousand and one and he was at the nine eleven site a couple of weeks later with vice president. Cheney and he gets a call from stephen hadley who was the deputy national security advisor saying that the biotoxin detectors in the white house had gone off and apparently it was botulinum and in twenty four hours. Everybody in the white house would be dead if it was an actual attack so he had to go over while at the nine eleven site. That is still smoldering and tell the vice president that and begin to plan for the chain of succession then..
We Must Not Let the Future Generations Forget 9/11
"So as we look at twenty years later at nine eleven we have to do. And this is a call to action for every single adult out there in every single parent which you need to tell this generation didn't grow up with nine eleven. What happened on nine eleven. We have people that work for us at turning point. Usa that have no memory of nine eleven. None you now have a generation of leaders that are going to be growing up with no idea of what it's like where your entire world. All of geopolitics changes almost overnight. Air travel changed for good. How the military change almost everything chain. I know so. Many members of my generation have their own story of where they were and how it happened. And it's really it's really important question. And it's one that you think about it. Osama bin laden and his evil partners they wanna make america less free. They wanted to make america weaker
"osama" Discussed on Fresh Air
"How did he play hidden in creating his image. At the height of the of the war against the soviets the might have been three hundred. Arab circled afghan arabs on the battlefield. Meanwhile the you know somewhere between one hundred seventy five thousand to two hundred and fifty thousand afghans at any moment fighting the soviet. So the arabs. Virtually no impact on in any you know strategically or even operationally on the war in afghanistan. But in bouma's mind. There is no doubt that he himself fought with almost suicidal bravery against the soviets in nineteen eighty seven. He and Some of his kind of follow us set up a military camp quite near a soviet base and they fought for two or three weeks against soviet special up special forces But you know bin laden setup this military camp you didn't have any strategic impact when the war the afghans don't really need help with fighting but imbalanced mind the his arabs. The people his follows helped defeat a superpower. I think this was absolutely delusional One of many delusions he had but it was a delusion that he felt very strongly and wish ed by others. Because you know. John lewis came to cover bin laden including Jamal kashogi who of course was quoted by the saudis in two thousand eighteen in istanbul. But jamal kashogi was the first mainstream journalists to cover bin laden and wrote a pretty low masterpiece and our big annan english documenting bin laden and his efforts and bear in mind that there are several thousand members of the saudi royal family. None of whom were fighting in afghanistan here is bin laden a member of a prominent a saudi family fighting himself personally against the soviet some recruiting people to fight against this and so it was kind of a heroic story and there's no doubt that dan lavin four with some bravery but what affected it have on the larger war. The answer is virtually nothing. You're right that he formed al qaeda there actually documents that show this. I guess in nineteen eighty eight Moves to sedan and operates there and eventually is forced to leave because he's creating problems with the saudi regime and they They exert pressure to get to force him to leave. He relocates in afghanistan and in this period. He's angry about american troops intervening after the iraqi invasion of kuwait. He doesn't like to see all these american troops in muslim countries and he begins planning mass attacks that will kill large numbers of civilians. Do we know why he chose that. Approach the why questions are very difficult in history. Why bin laden went down the path. He did i. I i try and explain to the reader. How did he get that. Because i think how is is perhaps more clear way of explaining it. So i i think there was nothing inevitable about how bin laden this shy religious teenager then becomes the leader of a group dedicated a mass motor..
"osama" Discussed on Fresh Air
"He reminded me a little bit of hitler. You're moving around these divisions at the end of world war two. that didn't exist. We need to take a break here. Let me reintroduce it. We are speaking with peter. Bergen his new book is the rise and fall of osama bin laden will continue our conversation in just a moment. This is fresh air. This is fresh air and our guest. Is peter bergen. He's journalist and author. Who's written several books about al-qaeda and other jihadist movements. His new book is a biography of osama bin laden called the rise and fall of osama bin laden. You write about his early life and this is interesting stuff. I mean he came from a wealthy family The money was from this construction company that his father founded he became a close friend of the saudi royal family and they became enormously rich. What kind of relationship. That osama bin laden half with his two parents well with his father mohammad bin laden founded this you know basically came to saudi arabia in one thousand nine hundred ninety just before you know this huge gosh of petrodollars landed on the kingdom and yeah. He adeptly kind of took advantage of that but to become the largest construction magnet in in the saudi kingdom bin. Laden's relationship with his father. Was i think virtually non-existent. I mean this is a bin laden. Had fifty four siblings And bin laden's father married his his mother in in syria when she was a teenager he was the belongs. Father was around fifty when they go married And build on soil his father. It looks like he only met with his the five times in his entire life. His father died When bin laden was ten bin laden appears had only one one one meeting with his father. So you know. The parents divorced when bin laden was only two so his his his relationship with his father was nonexistent really but he did believe that he was kind of a filling an important mission his father his father supposedly said that one of his songs would sort of fight jihad holy war and bin laden felt that he was kind of fulfilling his father's wishes his relationship with his mother was very warm You know he we kiss her hands he would make small talk with our complimentary like on a cooking always remained very very close to her. Even when he was on the ron in sudan and afghanistan in the nineties he would communicate with her to extend that he could so hit very warm relationship with his mother so he grew up in this family that had enormous wealth. And you know some wealthy missed. Middle eastern families would send their children to be educated in western countries Many of the united states and many were known for a very lavish lifestyle. There's a photo you have in the book. It's really this remarkable photo of. I guess maybe twenty or so members of the bin laden family on vacation in sweden in nineteen seventy one. You want to describe this photo and you included it. This is a pretty well known photo. All the bin laden family on vacation. I think there were twenty three bin laden siblings in the picture one of whom maybe osama bin laden there's some debate about it But the launch point is is that salem bin laden who took over the family the oldest brother took over the family business when his father mohammed bin laden died In a plane crash You know he was a very westernized Guy he People would a house in orlando kind of state. He basically Play the guitar play. Where have all the flowers gone on these kinds of nineteen sixties hits so..
"osama" Discussed on Fresh Air
"Yeah he's designated by the as a foreign terrorist Five hundred dollars on head from the fbi up to ten million dollars for the state from the state department amount. Not quite sure why does is different figures in different parts of the us government. His uncle khalil. Connie also has a five million dollar reward on his head for from the state department. He's now the minister of refugees before that he was appointed by the taliban run security in kabul which is a rather grimly ironic because the economy network has conducted. You know multiple mass casualty terrorist attacks in kabul killing many many afghan civilians. But this shows you where. The afghan government is going This is not some new and improved. Taleban point oh it's Very much old school taliban. And i think that will default to the various policies. They had before nine eleven. And you say connie is a member of al qaeda. I wonder what that means. You know ten years. After a osama bin laden's death. I mean when when he engineered the dine eleven attacks he had the sanctuary f- ghanistan was galvanizing leader with a lot of money What's al qaeda today. Well you know. It's a shadow of what it was before nine eleven. But you know when i say that suraj connie is member of al-qaeda. I'm quoting a report from june by the united nations in which they stay describe. Roger connie is a ally in the leadership of al-qaeda. So you know. Al qaeda's got a new lease of life and The un report again Which describes the relationship between the taliban and al-qaeda's closely aligned this report that came out in june. So it's a recent and Of sunday al qaeda itself. You is going to enjoy a renaissance in in afghanistan. Because they're going to have the space. I mean they have one of the top cabinet officials. Is you know part of their organization and close ally. So i mean. I think that we've seen the movie before where firefighters poor whether it was nine eleven afghanistan or iraq in the summer of two thousand fourteen. And we're going to see the same thing in afghanistan foreign fighters coming in for training This great jihadist victory being celebrated by jihadists around the world people motivated by the city and some of the may not travel to afghanistan. They may just you know kind of act on their own. whether they're in the united states or in europe or elsewhere to carry out attacks. Sort of in the name of al-qaeda..
CIA Veteran: Al-Qaida Will Rebuild Within Afghanistan
"Hi Mike Rossi a reporting a CIA veteran expects al Qaeda to rebuild within Afghanistan Michael Morell who was the C. I. A. analyst who briefed president George W. bush on September eleven two thousand one said Tuesday he's convinced the Taliban will invite al Qaeda to rebuild in Afghanistan or L. who twice served as acting CIA director spoke at an online forum sponsored by the US attorney's office for the Eastern District of Virginia it was one of a series of panels this week to commemorate the twentieth anniversary of the September eleven attacks rail twice served as acting CIA director and he briefed president Barack Obama on the intelligence that led to the killing of Osama bin laden he said there's no doubt in his mind the Taliban will give safe haven to al Qaeda and he believes al Qaeda's intention will be to build capability so they can attack us here at home Mike Rossio Washington
Taliban Kill Squad Hunting Down Afghans Using US Biometric Data
"That the taliban has a special unit called out ishaq hoop and they hunt down. Afghans who helped the us allies and they are now using us equipment at data that tracked down the afghans because we left behind a lot of hand held scanners which tap into a massive biometric database all the afghans who helped us We took their fingerprints. We took a photo of their irises and collected biographical data and seven thousand. Handheld scanners were circulating. We don't know how many we left behind. And but now al says they have the information so There's there's at should the sister al qaeda who's alicja. Al is part of the hawk connie network which is well. This is part of the problem. It's a terror group aligned with the taliban and the taliban's aligned with al qaeda right but not isis right economy and And the taliban are intertwined and Let me see here. There there's a hi. Connie family and one of the family members is now zoot hakim. Oh honey of course. He revealed the history and command structure of out. East asia It's a brigade of more than two thousand fighters that is named after khalil. Connie who had a five million dollar bounty on his head and he leads a unit Is he's the brother of the late to jolla in her. Connie who was osama bin laden's mentor and later served as cabinet minister for the
Whose Propaganda Is Worse: Biden Administration or the Taliban?
"Me show you what else I'm seeing. Bleed into our media here. And that is that, uh, Well, look, uh, the Taliban really do seem to be changing. They're making all kinds of promises. Here. They They say they will work with us after the fact you heard Blinken say it. So what Blinken says the media will regard you take And yet NBC is now reporting this just broke. That the Taliban spokes idiot The spokes. Terrorists said that there's no evidence Osama bin Laden was involved in 9 11. What do you think of that? Mr Producer? There's no evidence Osama bin Laden was involved in 9 11, but we're going to believe this guy when he says for sure. After August 31 you just show up with your papers will let you through. I don't know whose propaganda is worse, the Taliban or the Biden administration. The Taliban or the Biden administration. They're both lying. The bite administration wants you to believe that you can rely on the Taliban, but we're going to be very careful What we know who they are. Yeah, Yeah. They speak out of both sides of the man. We know they're dangerous. We know who they are, but they promised they said, you know. We have to rely on their word. Because that's all they've got The bad administration when they pulled the military at the first time, and they're pulling it out
How Chaos In Afghanistan Emboldened Terrorism - burst 1
"Chaos in afghanistan upton as president biden withdrew military forces leading to a forceful takeover by the taliban today august seventeenth. We will dive into one of the greatest foreign policy. The buckles in modern history. Good afternoon. i'm meeting. Kim and this is the outspoken oma quote. Joe biden has been wrong on nearly every major foreign policy national security issue over the past four decades and quote. Who said that not trump not a partisan congressmen or republican operative. That was robert gates. The former secretary of defense under president obama for three years and today as we see significant foreign policy the buckle unfolds in afghanistan that quote is once again reaffirmed now quickly dive into some basic background information as to what is transpiring in afghanistan back in mid april president biden announced immediate withdrawal all american troops from afghanistan by september eleventh. Twenty twenty one. Obviously september eleven was chosen dates because that was to recognize the anniversary of the september eleventh terrorist attacks and which led to the immediate was occupation of afghanistan because at the time afghanistan was harboring osama bin laden on august fifteenth. The taliban took over the capital of kabul effectively toppling. Afghanistan's governments later afghan. President ghani fled the country right before taliban leadership storm the presidential palace and thousands of afghan citizens fled to kabul international airport to skip the taliban. Now while oldest was transpiring. President biden was in camp david and he was strong criticized because he didn't have a strong message or strong immediate message in response to all of this so he traveled back to washington. Dc to address the nation from the white house one of the biggest elements that he was criticized for in the speech was the blame game in which he played and one of the obviously notable people in which she blames forwarded the buckle in afghanistan was trump and sort of implied some blame to bush and obama. He said quote when i came into office. I inherited deal that president trump negotiated with taliban on the his agreement. Us forces would be out of afghanistan. May i twenty twenty one. Just a little over three months after i took office. Us forces had already drawn down during trump administration from roughly fifteen thousand five hundred american force to two thousand five hundred troops in country. The taliban was strongest militarily. Since two dozen one the choice i had to make as your president was added to follow through on that agreement or be prepared to go back to fighting the taliban in the middle of the spring fighting season and quote. And but if you actually look at the deal that trump's state department may with taliban it's not what biden actually described in his address at a nation. Mike pompeo who was secretary of state under president trump said in a recent interview that the deal of the taliban was strictly conditional which meant that deal was was strictly predicated on the taliban committing to a peaceful transfer of power in order for america to withdraw after that commitment to a peaceful transfer of power appel said in a recent interview quote we would have demanded the taliban actually deliver on the conditions that we let out in the agreement including the agreement to engage in meaningful power sharing agreement some that which we struggled to get them to do but made it clear it was going to be required before we completed requirements to fulfil foley withdrawal and unquote. And you know there are some criticisms of the deal. Mike pompeo made with the taliban. Obviously the taliban actually pursuing a peaceful transfer of power from the afghan government was not going to happen. I mean we actually thought. That was being overly idealistic. So people had that criticism upon pales deal but even if biden did not agree with the policy that trump's state departments made in efforts to come to some sort of consensus with the taliban he kind of reversed it. I mean he was president for seven months. Which meant that. He'd independence day department and independence defense department and he could have used his powers as the chief executive to to reverse a deal that the previous administration made i mean for his entire time as president of the united states reversed nearly every single policy. That trump did while he was president. So this is no exception. I mean he should own up to the flaws of the policies in which he tried to pursue in addition to to trump he also blamed the afghan military. He said quote. The truth is but this did on for the more quickly than we had anticipated. So what happened. Afghanistan political leader escape up and fled the country the afghan military collapse. Sometimes we're not trying to fight if anything developments at the past week reinforced the ending. Us military involvement in afghanistan. No was the right decision. American troops cannot ensure not be fighting a war and dying in award. Afghan forces are not willing to fight for themselves and quotes. This is honestly one of the most politically cynical things that i've ever heard biden say the afghan forces are not willing to fight for themselves. Fifty thousand afghan military soldiers died in darndest entire two decades of us occupation of afghanistan. And the reason why they cannot successively defend themselves against the taliban was because biden himself pulled out a contractors and basically destroyed the afghans dependency on us military which are obviously undermined the ability of afghan military to counter act opposing taliban forces. According to the wall street journal quote in the wake of president biden's withdrawal decision the us pulled its airports air support intelligence and contractors servicing afghanistan planes and helicopters. This meant that afghan military simply cannot operate anymore and quote. Admittedly afghan leadership was significantly underprepared in the wake of the draw because as by afghan officials did not believe america will draw however according to andrew watkins a senior analyst for afghanistan and at the international prizes group research advocacy organization. There was no evidence that the taliban significantly increased their manpower and argue. The only reason why there's summer offensive was successful was due to a lack of us. Air strikes which meant that biden's administration shorter significant blame for the dismantling of the afghan government. What biden actually expect to happen when he pulled the entire the tire. Us presence from afghanistan if the afghan military dependent so much on the us occupation of afghan for the viability of their own independent military force. Then of course when they pulled out of afghanistan. The afghan military by itself was not sufficient enough to defend against the taliban if you're pulling out intelligence contracts that were vital for the dependency of the afghan military than have military is expected to fall when the taliban was advancing to the nation's capital and one of the other things that addition to buy actually blaming everyone except for himself for the marco afghanistan biden also discussed casualties in the in the afghan occupation. He said quote. Lemme ask those who wanted to wanted us to stay. How many more how. Many thousands more of american daughters and sons are willing to risk and quotes according to abc news. There's not been a single american combat death since february eighth twenty which was eighteen months ago. That's not to belittle the two thousand three hundred twelve american soldiers that lost life in afghanistan. But it is the suggests that thousands of stationed american soldiers in the lead up to the afghanistan pull out were not being bogged down by precipitous warfare in combat honestly by contrast more than fifty one thousand taliban fighters were killed by american armed forces which shows a major power imbalance in military superiority between taliban in american forces but aside from that by reportedly sent five thousand additional troops back in afghanistan to aid withdrawal despite his call for not putting sons and daughters at risk he just said that it was egregious to put american sons and daughters at risk for filled mission. So what is different about the five thousand additional troops. He sending back into afghanistan. Aren't those sons and daughters. Also at risk and to add insult injury tens of thousands of american citizens have been left behind it in afghanistan in the withdrawal according to the washington according to wall street journal an estimated ten thousand fifteen thousand new citizens remained in afghanistan so yes it is tragic. Every single american soldier died in. afghanistan is a tragedy. No one is disputing dance but suggests that afghanistan was a present danger to the current military soldiers. There from february twenty is simply not true and biden. Really closer to speech with i think when idiotic things that he said in his entire speech close with kohl's diplomacy he said quote. We will continue to support the afghan people we will lead before. Diplomacy or international influence in or humanitarian aid will continue to push for regional diplomacy and engaging prevent violence and instability will continue to speak out for the basic rights at the afghan people of women and girls just as we speak all around the world and quote and my question is just how. How can you negotiate with radical barbaric terrorist group that subject it's ethnic religious and gender minorities to brutal torture and murder. How can you negotiate with democratic for cystic regime. That is responsible for thousands of american lives. I mean honestly gonna ask nicely are gonna get on your knees and begged them to treat the afghanistan woman fairly. I mean i don't understand why biden continues to believe that's diplomacy instead of for actually using military forces is the correct way to go and this brings us back to. What was this for honestly at the end of the day with withdrawn. Us military forces from afghanistan he effectively reversed two decades of foreign policy and the initial mission of counter terrorism and preventing a staging ground for al-qaeda according to the pentagon united states government has been eighty three billion dollars in bolstering the afghanistan government and which is effectively gone to waste. I mean we spend easily billion dollars to bolster an afghan military but the afghan military is so reliance on the american forces to to help them to secure them. But when the american forces are removed from the afghan military to aid them than the billion dollar investment goes down the drain and now according to you defense and state department officials six billion dollars in military equipment including eight hundred fifty mine-resistant ambushed protected vehicles were abandoned in withdrawal which six billion dollars in. Us military equipment is now in the hands of taliban and other terrorist organizations additionally chairman of the joint chiefs of staff mark milley addressed congressional leaders and said that they will move the terrorist threats in afghanistan from medium according to axios which meant that. Obviously you're going to see a rise in terrorism and afghanistan and now that the taliban effectively controls its governments and to add insult injury the inside reports that taliban militants released thousands of prisoners from afghan prisons with links to islamic jihadist groups and al qaeda. So what has changed in the past two decades. We've tried to counter terrorism. We tried to decrease the the influence of kind of effectively imprisoning or killing al qaeda militants. We tried to decrease the the power of the taliban and we tried to effectively counteract attacks by the islamic jihadist groups. But it seems to me after this withdrawal after the dust settled what is going to be. The state of afghanistan will be similar to the state of afghanistan when we first invaded and his brings me to a new york times article which discussed heavier mackey. Who was a former first class army. Special forces soldier with several afghanistan deployments and will shot twice and he said in an interview with the new york times quote. I sacrificed a lot. I saw death every day every year. And the guys. I soaked with new would probably come to an end like this. But the chaos and made his andre after everything we gave. I just wish that had been away to leave. With honor and quote for people like mackey. There is a question that rang in numerous veterans. What was it for the situation. Afghanistan has become similar to america. I evaded two decades ago. All the bloodshed in lives lost in pursuit of counter-terrorism only define the terrorism revitalize. This president has trade the continuing efforts of veterans and committed a damaging dereliction of duty as commander in chief of the armed forces is devastating. What is happening in afghanistan and we can only hope citizens in afghanistan. Remain safe in this critical juncture. All right before we signed off. I like to extend a special. Thank you to my uncle. Who has made this podcast possible and untitled one of my greatest supporters okay. Today's episode the spokane podcast. You could read articles on a variety of important topics at outspoken opa dot com and follow us on instagram twitter facebook and linked in. Also if you'd like to show want to support it. Please go vis a five star review on apple podcasts and listened to our other episodes wherever you hear your podcasts. I'm thinking in. This is the outspoken oba. The outspoken oboe. Podcast is hosted by ethan kim directed by luc him and added by actually awesome the podcast independent production by the elbow from above. And it's edited by hit.
Thousands Flee Another Lost American War
"Years after countless deaths and $2 trillion in spending, Afghanistan is back in the hands of the Taliban. Many people are remembering the fall of Saigon in 1975, but this week's rapid fall of Kabul has brought its own unforgettable images now seared into our memories. Okay. There was this girl. Yeah, you know that thousands of Afghans flooding into the Kabul airport desperate to flee. Gut wrenching scenes of crowds of people running alongside and clinging onto an American military plane as he gathered speed across the runway and that video that went viral of bodies falling off the plane and plummeting through the air seconds after it took off. This is how it ended. Mission in Afghanistan was never supposed to been nation building. It was never supposed to be created. A unified centralized democracy are only vital national interest in Afghanistan remains today. What has always been Preventing and a terrorist attack on American homeland. But when President George W. Bush ordered the invasion of Afghanistan, where the Taliban had been harboring Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda had a very different vision about the U. S mission in America, not only fights for our security But we fight for the values we hold dear. We strongly reject The Taliban way. We strongly reject their brutality toward women and Children. He promised the US would defeat the Taliban and help rebuild a stable and peaceful country. American or allies. What? We'll do our part in the rebuilding of Afghanistan. We learned our lessons from the past. We will not leave until the mission. It's complete. Some Afghans took that promise to heart.
The Cost of the 20-Year War in Afghanistan
"Leaving afghanistan was the right call but it may haunt biden and the us forever by ian bremmer. Bremmer is a foreign affairs columnist and editor at large at time the last week saw the unceremonious end to the longest military adventure in american history. The botched withdrawal from afghanistan is the first major foreign policy crisis of the biden administration and surely the largest since nine eleven it is also largely self inflicted. The failure lies not in the decision to exit afghanistan. But in the way the us went about leaving indeed the decision to leave made initially by trump and ratified by biden remains strategically sound but as the tragic events of the past week of shown making the right decision as one thing carrying it out. Well is an entirely different story. It is a failure that could cost president biden and america more than they bargained for. Why was withdrawal. The right call biden inherited a broken peace process and the prospect of a renewed conflict with a strengthened taliban. If he reneged on trump's commitments this is not to say that his hands were inextricably tied he could have chosen to continue the fight however as the record shows and he expressed clearly in his address to the nation on august sixteenth biden himself has long believed that the us should draw down. Its presence in afghanistan for several reasons. He's right the mission. The american people were sold was accomplished. The war. that followed was unwinnable on october. Sixth two thousand one president bush issued an ultimatum to the taliban shutdown al qaeda's base of operations closing their training facilities and hand over osama bin laden. The taliban refused
Tracking America's Longest War
"Turn now to look at the roots of what's become america's longest war the. Us invaded afghanistan. October seven two thousand one less than a month after the al qaeda attacks on the world trade center and the pentagon within days of the us bombing of afghanistan. The taliban offered to hand over osama bin laden the al-qaeda leader but the bush administration rejected any negotiations with the taliban. This is bush's press secretary ari fleischer responding to a question and october. Two thousand one would use afford say was the taliban might say at this point may not make any difference in the or flooring whatever they may serve. The president made it any clearer two weeks ago when he said that there will be no discussions and negotiations. So what they say. It's not as important as what they do. And it's time for them to act. It's been time for them to act in december of two thousand one just a month or two later the taleban offered to surrender control of kandahar if its leader mullah. Muhammad omar would be allowed to quote live in dignity in opposition custody u. s. defense secretary. Donald rumsfeld rejected the offer. If you're asking would would an arrangement with omar where he could quote live in dignity in the kandahar area or some place in afghanistan. Be consistent with what i have said. The answer is no would be consistent with what i have said. That's donald rumsfeld speaking december. Sixth two thousand one the us. Warren afghanistan would continue for almost twenty more years through two now.
Biden Is Downplaying the Next Osama Bin Laden
"And a couple of weeks we're all going to commemorate the 20th anniversary of 9 11. The Taliban are gonna be ruling Afghanistan like they were When our country was attacked. How do you explain that to the American people? Not true. It's not true that not can look just like they were. We were attack. There was a guy named Osama bin Laden and there's a lot of Osama bin Laden is hiding out in caves. In parts of Pakistan. Lot of Osama bin Laden is they can't wait. And they're all going to be joining together, strategizing together plotting together. They're going to have an entire country and they're not going to have to fear a thing. They're not going to fear us doing anything. This will be gone longer. NATO will be gone long gone. Nobody's gonna interfere with them. Nobody. They're going to have free run of the place. It is so much worse. Then before 9 11 so much worse.
Could the Disaster in Afghanistan Have Been Averted in 2001?
"Matter whether you were for or against the war in afghanistan. I think most observers agree that the way it's been brought to an end has been a disaster. The taliban is again in control of the country and in addition to political power. They've got their hands on. Us supplied military equipment including guns ammunition and combat aircraft. So we all agree. It's bad right now but did you know that was a good chance we could have maybe avoided all of this. That's because in december two thousand one. The taliban seemed to be on the verge of striking eight deal with the afghan government to surrender. This was at a time when the taliban itself said they were finished as a political force but donald rumsfeld the secretary of defense at the time rejected the idea and when asked about the possibility of such a deal said quote. The answer is no he wanted. An unconditional surrender. How did that work out just to be clear. No one is saying that afghantistan would have become piece floor. Violence-free only that we wouldn't have spent the next nineteen years fighting an unwinnable war more than twenty four hundred. Us service members were killed in afghanistan. So we're an estimated sixty six thousand afghan military and police and more than forty seven thousand afghan civilians over four hundred eight workers and more than seventy journalists all at a us price tag of two trillion dollars that the bush administration failed to end the war. Early on is one of the many gross mistakes that they made including allowing osama bin laden to escape afghanistan according to a senate report from two thousand nine bin laden was quote within our grasp in december two one but the administration let him slip through their hands quoting from the report the decisions that opened the door for his escape to pakistan allowed bin laden emergency potent symbolic figure who continues to attract a steady flow of money and inspired fanatics worldwide. The failure to finish the job represent a lost opportunity. That forever altered the course of the conflict in afghanistan and the future of international terrorism. That report came out twelve years
20 Years After 9/11 Islamic Military Groups Are Becoming Emboldened - Will They Strike?
"An amazing thing of course twenty years after what happened on nine eleven We are seeing a resurgence. A dramatic resurgence of islamic Military groups and as you just pointed out they've been emboldened by The weakness of the biden gang. And what. I wonder is whether they will be emboldened to the point of striking on our soil again We know that they have a long memory far longer than we do in our culture And that their plan is to destroy us and if they have to wait. Twenty years Until we lose cultural nerve and our confidence as clearly We've done By pulling out of afghanistan so precipitously and foolishly i i. I wonder if you've been thinking about that because we forgot that this was once an imminent issue or will they strike again. We've kept this nation safe for twenty years. Do you think that they're being emboldened. You think they have plans for us. Twenty awards very daunting for them. This is a thousand words over in your war and they are thinking in the long term with album. Commander said that he wants to see the entire world under sharia law. Under asama ical This is their go. There goes to create a caliphate. And we've seen that under the democrats this these efforts takeoff We saw just how much al-qaeda takover under bill clinton under the obama administration isis. the call. now we're going to see yet. Another resurgence under the administration. Because first of all they see democrats as innately week likely to compromise in cut deals with them. And secondly these state sponsors of these scoops because they do have state sponsors are very much embedded in the democratic government prime minister of pakistan just amount and said that the afghan people have shaken off their chains. And this was the regime that harbored osama bin laden yet. We're giving them between five hundred million to a billion dollars a year. This is what happens on the democrat administration and oppose clear threat to america because the more these governments at Terrorist groups see us as weak. The will likely they are to push up
Joe Biden Tries to Take Credit for the Killing of Osama Bin Laden
"The nerve. The gall it takes for a man named joe biden to say this mission to degrade terrorist threat of al qaeda in afghanistan and kill osama bin laden was a success are decades long effort to overcome centuries of history and permanently change remake. Afghanistan was not and i wrote and believed that never could be. I cannot and will not ask our troops to fight on endlessly another in another country civil war. Can you imagine the only guy who didn't want to take out. Osama bin laden is now taking credit for taking out osama bin laden let that sink in he. He's given us a history lesson. Well here's a little history. You're the only guy that was opposed to take out. Osama bin osama bin laden. You understand that is a fact right. You know that. Don't you don't think that's just like a political talking point you understand. That's literally what he did. He opposed the mission to take out osama bin laden. He was the only guy in the room. They went around voted on. Apparently that's the history lesson he's been wrong about every foreign policy issue for forty years. Don't believe me ask. The generals just incredible. But he's got the nerve to say that but that's who he is. The guys just just lost.
Tom Cotton: Biden's Afghanistan Withdrawal 'Recklessly Negligent,' Catastrophic for America
"Glory america or high. The chaos at cable airport is less chaotic. American troops have secured the perimeter. It is still desperate situation. Thousands of afghans are trying to get to the airport. American marines have established a perimeter. Six afghanis fell to their death from airplanes. Yesterday it's been confirmed by the new york times. The president's disastrous speech yesterday has been widely in everywhere pan. They wished to begin this hour by reviewing with you reaction to this. Beach here is senator. Tom cotton john fox news. When neil cavuto not long after it was given cut number one. That speech demonstrated a president who has dangerously disconnected from reality. You can put aside the question of the decision to withdraw from afghanistan. just focus on how. That decision has been executed over the last couple of weeks neil The president seem totally oblivious to the conditions on the ground. He act is this as if this withdrawal is going in orderly fashion when in fact we have hundreds if not thousands of americans stuck behind taliban lines who have no clear instructions on how to get to the airport and out of the country. Joe biden didn't say a word to them. Furthermore claimed that we would somehow can continue to conduct over the horizon terrorism operations as he called it with exquisite proficiency. I guess that's going to be exactly like he's conducted. This chaotic disorganized the lasko of evacuation for american citizens. I mean the president claimed that He wanted credit for the break to kill osama bin laden now he may have forgotten that ten years ago he was loudly and famously opposed to the mission to get bin laden yet. Surely he can see what's happening on the ground afghanistan right now which is the direct consequence of his ilk disorganized decision to withdraw from
Biden's Botched Afghan Exit Is a Disaster
"One of the great beltway. World-weary nobody bremmer called me. Partisan yesterday for speaking the absolute truth that this is all on one hundred percent. Joe biden the simpering leftist. Appeasement crowd has been out saying that. This is not joe. Biden's fault it's donald trump's fault. Mike pompeo sign that agreement. Mike pompeo was on fox. news yesterday. laying down the complete and utter and perfectly persuasive rebuttal to that nonsense seven months in office. They've been there seven months to have kept the twenty five hundred american soldiers. Five thousand nato troops in american airpower that we had agreed to keep their until an agreement had been negotiated between the afghan government and the taliban on power-sharing which foresaw anticipated a partition of the country into taliban zones and into free zones totally overrun. You got a week ago. By the way in konduz very well documented in the washington post and a report that i linked at hughhewitt dot com on my twitter account. But let me read to you. The wall street journal editorial president biden's statement on saturday. Washing his hands of afghanistan deserves to go down as one of the most shameful his history by commander in chief at such a moment of american retreat as the taliban closed in on kabul. Mr biden's in a confirmation of us. Abandonment that absolves himself of responsibility deflected blame to his predecessor and more or less invited the taliban to take over the country with that statement of capitulation the afghan military's last resistance collapsed taliban fighters captured kabul president. Ghani fled the country. While he was frantically tried to evacuate americans the jihadist us toppled twenty years ago for sheltering osama bin laden will now fly their flag over the us embassy building on the twentieth anniversary of nine eleven.
As 20th Anniversary of 9/11 Nears, Joe Biden Faces Political Crisis Over Afghanistan Falling to the Taliban
"This will see the twentieth anniversary. September the eleventh. Just around the corner totta believe. i know. i'm sure every single one of you're listening can remember with clarity way. You were on that sunny crystal blue tuesday morning when three thousand americans were killed in the space of one hundred in two minutes that attack on us soil the greatest terrorist attack in modern history. Something which the soviet union never never achieved in four decades of the cold war was masterminded may osama bin laden and his organization al qaeda which means the base. What's the full name of the organization which the mainstream media never ever mentioned the base for the holy war against the crusaders. Yes that is the full name that income himself the base. It's a holy war against us against the western civilization against jews against christians and against muslims who they deem not to be muslim enough a generation later this administration the one that is allegedly run by a man called joe biden. Who can't even speak properly. Who doesn't know the entrance to the white house. Who tells you he was a truck driver. And how harry. His legs were when he was alive. God is affected a precipitous withdrawal from afghanistan that now they're having to counter with the redeployment of three thousand of military military who have been disgraced by this administration by the current secretary of defense. Who made it his mission to hunt down quote unquote the enemies inside
"osama" Discussed on Fresh Air
"Here's dave when navy seals shot osama bin laden in that two thousand eleven raid in pakistan to confirm his identity that compared his face to one in photos they were carrying and they noticed a discrepancy. The osama in the photos had a greybeard the beard on the man before them was jet black the reason bin laden had been using just for men hair dye. That's one of the details. You'll find a new book about bin laden by our guest. Peter bergen as we approach the twentieth anniversary of the september eleventh attacks. Bergen is publishing a biography of the founder of al qaida. Bergen has spent much of his career reporting on al qaeda in the global jihadist movement in nineteen ninety seven. He travelled to afghanistan for cnn to produce the first television interview of bin laden. He's published six previous books including several about al qaeda and he was the only journalist to get inside bin. Laden's compound after the us raid before it was demolished. His new book is based in part on material seized in the raid on on hundreds of interviews including conversations with a dozen of bin laden's inner circle. Bergen writes in the new book that he wanted to understand why bin laden created an organization dedicated to the mass murder of civilians. Peter bergen is still a national security analyst for cnn. He's also vice president for global studies fouls at the think tank new america. And he's a professor at arizona state university where he co directs the center on the future of war. His new book is the rise and fall of osama bin laden. Will peter bergen. Welcome back to fresh air. You've written so much about osama bin laden. What kind of new source material were you able to draw on this new research. Well a key tool this was it was only in late. Two thousand seventeen. The trump administration released the four hundred. Seventy thousand files were about about pakistan included in which was Something that was described by the cia. As bin laden's journal it turned out to be something slightly different It's also handwritten in arabic. It was the kind of a family journal that the bin laden family kept essentially in the law. Several weeks of bin laden's life and it's kind of good window into you know both what he was thinking of the time and also what. His two older wives were thinking and his and his adult children because they basically were kind of perplexed about what to do about the events of the arab spring which bin laden well understood as the most important event you're in the middle east arguably in centuries was his own view of it And yet you know his ideas. His followers were were absent in in. At least the you know the first several months of the arab spring right yet. There's a lot of fascinating material here about those last months before the us raid in pakistan At this compound where bin laden was was hiding you know he was. I guess the most haunted man on earth at that point and he had a lot of people living with him. How many who were they. Well the total was twenty seven Sixteen of his own family and eleven yet two bodyguards and their families. So you know typically when we think of a fugitive we don't think of a fugitive taking Three wives and dozen kids and grandkids with them bin laden. You know one of the teams. The book has bin laden For his many vices and y'all the evil that he an indefinite destruction that he calls he was something of a family man and he wanted to have his family around him. And in fact the folks of the cia who really tracking bin laden do the best. You know the fact that he this mysterious group of people who are living in this compound Seemed to include many family members. You know for them. That was a towel that it might..
"osama" Discussed on Fresh Air
"So i mean he he had a bunch of delusions they started with kind of what the american reaction would be to nine eleven They continued with when he was on the wrong about you know. Basically he believed that al qaeda would be able to mountain other attack on the united states. He was very hopeful about this and You know he seemed not to understand that. Al qaeda basically being largely decimated in the media off nine eleven. I quote one of his longtime associates in the book. Who says that. All the one thousand nine hundred arab fighters who are living in afghanistan. A time of nine eleven sixteen sixteen hundred of them were killed or captured in the immediate often. Off the nine eleven attacks there was other people in al-qaeda understand understood that the nine eleven attacks had been sort of account makasi mission for al-qaeda and bin laden was telling them you need you need to kill president barack obama will kill general david portrayals or don't although vice them vice president joe biden because he's not prepared to be president but he was sort of inciting them to do these attacks and who's going to do that I quote john. James clapper who was the director of national intelligence. The time of bin laden's death who said you know. He reminded me a little bit of hitler. You're moving around these divisions at the end of two didn't exist. There's little view. That's i guess somewhat widely held that the pakistanis must have known where bin laden was and must have been hiding him or assisting in deciding. We're turning a blind eye would is your research. Say i mean it's hard to prove negatives but as far as i can tell this is simply no evidence for for for that view bin laden was hiding from people on the were living with him. On the compound. He was extremely paranoid. There was no reason for him to inform somebody in the pakistani government about where he was in fact. Al-qaeda took a very hostile view of the pakistani government Planning military operations against pakistani targets bin laden in the four hundred seventy thousand files that have been released publicly from about about There is simply no evidence that bin laden was being protected by pakistani officials was in communication with pakistani officials That pakistani officials knew where he was So the reason. I think this view Arises is you know he was living relative close close to the pakistan's equivalent of west point and so people sort of say well the pakistani must've known but in fact they were befuddled by The fact that he was living in about a bodice as anybody else and in fact the united states was listening. In on pakistani communications the night of bin laden was died and pakistani leaders. Were clearly kind of sort of finding the situation very strange and didn't understand what was going on. So there's no evidence that bin laden was being protected by pakistani officials. it's a widespread view But that doesn't mean it's true. We need to take a break here. Let me reintroduce you again. We are speaking with peter. Bergen he's an author and journalist who spent years studying al-qaeda and other jihadist movements. His new book is a biography of bin laden. It's called the rise and fall of osama bin laden..
"osama" Discussed on Fresh Air
"So bin laden was hiding from people on his own compound. These two guys that were working there are sometimes described as bodyguards. They were really much more than that. Right yeah i mean you know. Bin laden didn't treat them particularly well. One of the interesting things that comes out of these documents is how how angry. They were about You know basically. They were being paid one hundred dollars a month. In in currency bin laden always always been something of a miser and they were taking these an almost risks looking after the two worlds most wanted man and his family members and they were very concerned they were concerned that they would be found. They were telling bin laden. He couldn't bring additional family members into the compound. His third wife who'd been living under house arrest in iran showed up and bodyguards. Said they wouldn't go and pick her up and bring her into the compound in the end. She appeared I'd the compound against Sort of the the better judgement of the bodyguards and bin laden was at one point. She wrote a formal letter. Two bodyguards on january fifteenth. Two thousand eleven few months before he was killed. Saying you know. I understand that. Our disagreements become so profound that even though you live on the same compound. I'm writing you this letter to kind of acknowledge what we've agreed which is You know let me find new protectors and of course bin laden would also have to leave the this. This compound that he so catholic planned with it's eighteen foot walls places to go somewhere else because the the compound itself was registered in a in one of the bodyguards name so his relations with with the two people who are really keeping al qaeda On him afloat Really beginning to fray in the last several months of his life. You would think someone who you relied so so many ways on to keep you safe. You might pay a little better and treat a little better. I mean the compound was registered in their names right ed. They burned their own trash there right. They grew a lot of their own food. Anybody ever leave. What did the kids go to school. The kids were home schooled. Do you know one of the kind of interesting things about the book is the extent to which bin laden's two older wives pillay such an important role in his life because two of them have phd's Which i think might be surprising to some to some listeners who may sort of assume that bin laden was not going to marry kind of highly educated women One had a phd in child psychology and other one to gain koranic grammar and so they were the two older wives. Were homeschooling kids. And they've been doing this for years even before but before nine. Eleven bin laden like afghantistan bin laden was sending his kids to school before nine eleven And these wives were also playing an important part in kind of helping bin laden. Think through complicated. Strategic problems related to kind of the future direction of kaieda. There was no internet access. There is that right. I mean could watch television. Listen to the radio. They could watch Aljazeera on satellite. Tv and bin laden washed a lot of out zero. Because of course he was kind of a news junkie..
"osama" Discussed on Fresh Air
"In today for terry gross. When navy seals shot osama bin laden in that two thousand and eleven rate in pakistan to confirm his identity that compared his face to one in photos they were carrying and they noticed a discrepancy. The osama in the photos had a gray beard. The beard on the man before them was jet black. The reason bin laden had been using just for men hair dye. That's one of the details. You'll find in a new book about bin laden by our guest. Peter bergen as we approach the twentieth anniversary of the september eleventh attacks. Bergen is publishing a biography of the founder of al qaeda. Bergen has spent much of his career reporting on al qaeda in the global jihadist movement. In one thousand nine hundred seven. He travelled to afghanistan for cnn to produce the first television interview of bin laden. He's published six previous books including several about qaeda and he was the only journalist to get inside bin. Laden's compound after the us raid before it was demolished. His new book is based in part on material seized in the raid and on hundreds of interviews including conversations with a dozen of bin. Laden's inner circle. Bergen writes in the new book that he wanted to understand why bin laden created an organization dedicated to the mass murder of civilians. Peter bergen is still a national security analyst for cnn. he's also vice president for global studies and fellows at the think tank new america and he's a professor at arizona state university where he co directs the center on the future of war. His new book is the rise and fall of osama bin laden peter. Bergen welcome back to fresh air. You've written so much about osama bin laden. What kind of new source material were you able to draw on this new research. Well key to all this was it was only in late. Twenty seventeen that the trump administration released four hundred. Seventy thousand files were recovered in about about pakistan included in which was Something that was described by the cia is bin laden's journal turn out to be something slightly different It's also handwritten in arabic. It was the kind of a family journal that the bin laden family kept essentially in the last several weeks of bin laden's life and it's kind of good window into you know both what he was thinking of the time And also what his two older wives thinking and his and his adult children because they basically were kind of perplexed about what to do about the events of the arab spring which bin laden well understood as the most important event You're in the middle east doggedly. In centuries was his own view it And yet you know his ideas. His followers were were absent in. At least the you know the first several months of the arab spring right yet. There's a lot of fascinating material here about those last months before the us raid in pakistan At this compound where bin laden was was hiding you know he was. I guess the most haunted man on earth at that point and he had a lot of people living with them. How many who were they. Well the total was twenty seven. Sixteen of his own family eleven two bodyguards and their families so you know typically when we think of fugitive we don't think of a fugitive taking Three wives and a dozen kids and grandkids with them But bin laden you know one of the themes of the book has bin laden For all his many vices and all the evil that he an indefinite destruction that he calls..
"osama" Discussed on The Lawfare Podcast
"April came into view when he made the decision to kind of green light but bin laden raid. I think part of his we know from his memoirs and from my disgusted with with others. Who are part of this process. There was a concern that he would bin laden would leave now. They didn't know that actually bin laden had agreed with his bodyguards that he could leave as l. He could separate as early july twenty eleven. But we know this from the documents were covered in about about. So where would he have gone his team at found a thirty five year. Old pakistani local guy with some kids who'd had some experience buying selling properties he wasn't necessarily pot of qaeda But they don't they don't profit one person who might be substitute protector. And then where would he have gone knows you know presumably. He had some cash that he would have been able to find place somewhere in northern pakistan But but president obama's decision to kind of pull the trigger on the bin laden raid authorizing. It turns out to be all the better decision because we now know that bin laden was really he could have separated from his body causes early of july. Two thousand eleven which would meant that. He would have had to find some of the hiding place going back before that. There were rumors for years of bin laden. Finding a way to get to places as far-flung as yemen his family's ancestral home in the hunter amount or to the southern philippines where al-qaeda had supported the islamic insurgency and jihad operations. There did you find anything in all of these recently released documents. That bin laden was seriously exploring any of those options or was he really wed to staying in northern pakistan or just across the border in afghanistan. He was really wet to staying about part of the world after we spent much of his adult life in pakistan afghanistan..
"osama" Discussed on The Lawfare Podcast
"Document says the extent which bin laden was freaking out about the drone program. Whatever you think about the drone program and sunny. The civilian casualties particularly the beginning of the program. It was basically destroying his middle management and many of his leaders. He was you know thinking about moving al qaeda while the pots of pakistan Much kinda was headquartered in tribal areas between pakistan afganistan at the time and the non was noodling with the idea of moving them deeper into pack. Sano back into afghanistan other members of al-qaeda would telling him yeah. We're thinking the same thing. So the drones were not very much his mind one of his sons Saab bin laden had been killed by ci drone in two thousand nine. He was very concerned that might be the fate of other of his sons who are in the tribal regions He was constantly advising them not to travel except on cloudy days when the drones had less visibility so that i think that's point one point two. He was extremely concerned about al-qaeda's record of killing muslim civilians. When i say qaeda the al qaeda and and also at lied groups pakistani taliban the documents so full of examples of bin laden one of his deputies chastising al qaeda affiliates all al qaeda allies like the pakistani taliban about killing muslims and in fact as the tenth on advisory of nine eleven came into view. Bin laden was thinking of issuing an apology to It was sort of basically rebranding al qaeda as a group that would not kill civilians. Awful the stated goal of al qaeda was to protect muslim civilians. And so you know. Tens of thousands of civilians have been killed by al-qaeda at its affiliates in the muslim world in iraq and pakistan elsewhere. I think that was really way on his mind. But the big thing. I would say in the last months and weeks of his life and this comes out of the bin laden family john that was released at the end of twenty seventeen two hundred twenty eight pages of handwritten arabic Which is kind of difficult to interpret which i think has received enough attention from scholars and researchers but this was an almost daily recording of the discussions between bin laden and his two older wives both of them have phd's and also his adult children two daughters and one son who basically would gather before dinner every night and sometimes In compensation that would continue often Try and figure out what the hell to say about the arab spring after will bin laden's goal was.
"osama" Discussed on The Lawfare Podcast
"Goodbye it sure is hello. It's fascinating how much al-qaida the organization is a reflection in some ways of bin laden's personality and experiences growing up. It's a big surprise for many to learn that al-qaeda was highly bureaucratic organization. Why did this make sense. Given bin laden's previous experiences bin laden studied business administration at university. He started working in his family business when he was in his late teens. Young when when he was still in high school. And i believe is he came out of this business background. He'd worked in his family business and he bought some of that kind of experience to to al-qaeda wished did operate in a very bureaucratic manner. You know it kept pretty decent records which is one of the reasons we can have this conversation with some degree of certainty. You know people how to fill out rather elaborate application forms to join al qaeda. So that i think it's not simple terrorist groups to get things dominate have to organize themselves a conscious be Something that's sort of totally ad hoc and al qaeda i think is a good example of pretty bureaucratic terrorist group. We've learned a lot. Just in the last few years from that huge trove of documents and other files released after the most interesting perhaps is how bin laden was still managing. Some might say micromanaging relationships with affiliates from the time after nine eleven in the initial hunt for bin laden up into the raid in about abbad. Talk a little bit about that bin. Laden's management style and even how he was sometimes quirky and even bizarre with his commands out to various followers and affiliates. Bin laden sunday was he was trying to micromanage an organization that.
"osama" Discussed on The Lawfare Podcast
"Learned from the four hundred. seventy thousand some files and his interviews. The made him change his mind about a few things regarding al-qaeda and osama bin laden. It's the law fair. Podcast august fourth. Peter bergen reassessing osama bin laden. Peter it is a pleasure to have you back on the law fair. Podcast i have to ask you to start off. Here you've written about bin laden extensively holy warring is one of the most read books on bin laden if not the most red book. So why this full cradle-to-grave biography and why now. Yeah good question. i you know. Part of it was prompted by. I teach students at arizona state and i realized that a lot of them even bone on nine eleven for them. Nine eleven is assistant an event as the korean war is for myself or other people of my generation. One of the bright student sauce me. You know what's the difference between al qaeda and the taliban and i was like well. You know this quite a lot to unpack there then. I also realized people who are volunteering for the us military today. one bono. Nine eleven. I though you know babies when nine eleven happened so that was one element. The second element was it was only in december in late thousand seventeen that the trump administration released in full four hundred seventy thousand files that were found at.
The U.S. Is Leaving Afghanistan in Disgrace
"You know it is a horrible disgrace. When people put their lives on the line. For us. Themselves to but specifically for us. We went into Afghanistan. To get Osama bin Laden and we went into Afghanistan to get the Taliban, too, because they gave him Safe, haven and protected him. And so we're leaving. The manner in which we're leaving is a disgrace. We have a major base there with significant numbers of about advanced weaponry. And we leave under cover of dark one or two in the morning. Without telling the Afghanistan military And so the Taliban sweep into this base and take the weapons. We have people who assisted us. A great threat to their own lives. Interpreters. Drivers and others. And this administration is not doing everything humanly possible to get them all out of there. That's not who we are. That's not what the United States military does. It's one thing to leave. It's a It's another thing to leave the way we're leaving.
Biden Says US War in Afghanistan Will End August 31
"President Biden says America's longest war will end the next month resisting calls from some to keep US troops in Afghanistan amid a Taliban resurgence the president says the U. S. has achieved both goals it set when invading Afghanistan twenty years ago take down Osama bin laden and keep the nation from again becoming a terror havens we did not go to Afghanistan to nation build and Afghan leaders must now chart their own path the president's been visibly annoyed by suggestions he's leaving too soon as the Taliban makes steady advances but he says the past twenty years have shown the war is unwinnable how many thousands more Americans daughters and sons are you willing to risk under growing pressure from lawmakers he's vowing to evacuate thousands of Afghans who helped the U. S. military as drivers and interpreters Sager may god me at the White House
"osama" Discussed on Conspiracyland
"Had given <Speech_Music_Male> him his <SpeakerChange> first <Music> big scoop <Music> <Music> <Music> <Music> <Advertisement> <SpeakerChange> <Music> <Advertisement> <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> <Speech_Male> <Advertisement> next <Speech_Male> <Advertisement> on conspiracy <Speech_Male> land after <Speech_Male> a stint as a saudi <Speech_Male> media spinner. <Speech_Male> Jamal returns <Speech_Male> to journalism <Speech_Male> and is caught up in <Speech_Male> a revolution sweeping <Speech_Music_Male> through <SpeakerChange> the middle east. <Speech_Music_Male> <Speech_Music_Female> <Speech_Music_Male> The first <Speech_Music_Male> revolution <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> of the twenty th <Speech_Music_Male> century <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> or <Speech_Music_Male> suppressed <Speech_Music_Male> <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> <SpeakerChange> <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> menendez <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> of and spread protests <Speech_Music_Female> <Advertisement> across the <Speech_Music_Female> <Advertisement> middle east. <SpeakerChange> They help <Speech_Female> <Advertisement> topple longtime <Speech_Music_Female> <Advertisement> leaders <Speech_Music_Female> <Advertisement> in tunisia <SpeakerChange> <Speech_Music_Male> egypt and libya <Speech_Music_Male> while <Speech_Male> the saudi government <Speech_Music_Male> does everything it can <Speech_Music_Male> to shut <SpeakerChange> it down. <Speech_Music_Male> Kim <Speech_Male> de of saudi calls <Speech_Male> obama <Speech_Music_Male> and he says look only <Speech_Male> people protesting <Speech_Music_Male> are al-qaeda <Speech_Male> hamas <Speech_Music_Male> oss the muslim <Speech_Music_Male> brotherhood in a raw <Speech_Music_Male> was. Like no <Speech_Music_Male> no no. Just <Speech_Male> look away from those young <Speech_Music_Male> people. They're all <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> just al-qaeda
"osama" Discussed on Conspiracyland
"Here's how jamal describe what he saw as his mission framing it is a big journalistic opportunity for me love. Under the school i succeeded in doing. My job was to give to give me an interview with the government green. You know for three nights in a row. Jamal met with bin laden during lavish dinners on a terrorist by the al qaeda. Leader's house with sudanese laying out platters of rice and lamb or with his tape recorder. Colleague pushed him. He knows by. And i couldn't get him to speak to me until he was almost to do that. You have it on tape. I had that would put the intervention. Did tonight but each night bin laden resisted talking on the record instead. He reverted the boasting about his plan to drive american forces out of the arabian peninsula. We hit him in aden and they left bin laden told him we hit them in somalia and they left again in the summer. I am leaving after you decided to do the interview during that dinner that somebody approached bin laden and he up and started talking with a group of men in the shadows who had a gypsy accents when he returned bin laden started. Trying to cut a deal with jamal negotiation. Jewish to me. Something like what's like for that. He wants to be up from decent life for him. Denouncing the violence is the man for me by the third night. Jamal started to realize his attempt to bring his old friend. Bin laden home was going to end in failure will take him somebody. You should be with. People soaps od. People will be fit to be seen with you in public. What what why. Didn't you see that again. He would just but that smile famous so it made me feel just. He's he doesn't realize what he has done. The become a today right says those dinners and sudan marked a turning point for bin laden in japan telling the story it seems like a big part of him wanted to make that declaration. He said it you know. He said he would renounce violence off the tape. You know not on the record and then of jamal said that at some point during one of the meals some of the egyptians called bin laden aside and it could well have been so for your one of his minions and gave him the news. You know you can't do this. But i think that there was a terrific on the part of bin laden to go home or at least have the ability to go home and you know that was a that was a decisive moment in bin laden's terrorist career because he had the chance to go home and all would be forgiven and moreover they give him even more money but he made a different choice. A did you get the sense. That dramatic was frustrated. He was very frustrated for one thing simply as a reporter. What a story you know. What a story that would be. You know i brought bin laden home Can you imagine i mean professionally. It could have been a tremendous coup. There's two final points. We should make about jamal khashoggi. Relationship with osama bin laden kashogi never endorsed the terrorism. That al-qaeda became infamous for in the years that followed their encounter in sudan the bombings of the us embassies in africa the tack on the uss cole. Off the coast of yemen and the events of september. Eleventh jamal's later writings explicitly condemned the slaughter of innocent civilians but jamal also never repudiated his friendship with bin laden either and the subject sometimes in tensions with friends and colleagues thing with your mother. There were so many arguments so many things that drove me crazy that there were hundreds of times nawaf. Obaid was a longtime friend of mine. Who served with him. In the years after nine eleven as a strategic advisor prince turki the former intelligence chief who had been tapped to be the saudi ambassador in london. Obeyed says jamal for years had a hard time accepting bin laden for the terrorist. He was and it took him a while. To really factor in that osama was the person that it will that the americans were saying end the saudis were saying he was so for him osama what he had done in afghanistan than how the the godless communists were defeated for him that impacted him a lot throughout his life that sing impacted him so he saw him as a hero obeyed says he would press kashogi on the subject telling him you seem to solve a soft spot for him. I don't get it when you say he. He still had that soft spot. How did he express that. There was always a justification the point. Sometimes i would just get annoyed. This is exactly what he is. He killed innocent people. He killed mothers so one day. I walked in early morning to his office here in london. Damage an i had pictures of the the men and women throwing themselves out of the buildings. Remember these pictures that didn't world trade towers right that they weren't being shown on the media and i can't remember by got pictures and i went in to make sure determine like you see look this is bin laden the did this. This is xyz. And if we cannot come out and condemn this than we are no better than him and he took the pictures and he went quite and then several hours later. Saw again in what we're doing yet you're right fair. Say he was conflicted on the subject of osama bin laden. Yeah well okay. I mean conflicted if you want to have the proper diplomatic from yes. He was conflicted. I would say he was ideologically. And i would even go to the i would even go. As far as theologically conflicted by him. Inner conflict that lasted right up to the end of the terrorist leaders life. The united states has conducted an operation that killed osama bin laden the leader of al qaeda for many americans. The ray that killed bin laden was a triumph that ultimate justice to a mass murder then hours of the rain. Jamal khashoggi tweeted an arabic about the death of his old friend who he referred to by the nome-de-guerre used in afghanistan abu abdur. I just fell apart crying heartbreak to you. Abu abdulah tomorrow wrote. You are beautiful brave in those beautiful days in afghanistan before you succumb to anger and passion. It was attribute of sorts to the source who.
"osama" Discussed on Conspiracyland
"Non all auto of the flight attendant who jamal married in islamic ceremony. In two thousand eighteen recounted even more recent conversations with jamal about his fond memories of bin laden then he emitted to me how he was sleeping in the cave which which is enough area and he was internet toaster and seven leaden a meant jamal body and cover him since hanan his as a human is very kind is not like what you think..