35 Burst results for "Osama"
"osama" Discussed on The Charlie Kirk Show
"Saying that, well, maybe Osama bin Laden had some points, but look, they're going to keep on embracing anti-American. They are embracing Hamas. Why would you be shocked that they're embracing Osama bin Laden? This moral equivalency that exists with Gen Z is what happens when you don't raise your kids as parents and then you send them to college and you send them to college. They're taught that maybe Osama bin Laden had a point. Maybe it's perfectly fine to kill the innocents and hijack the planes. Go read the actual philosophical writings of Frantz Fanon. Frantz Fanon, who wrote extensively about decolonization by any means necessary. It's taught in our schools, extensively in our schools. Let's go to this tape here. This is Biden's education secretary addressing the issue. Play cut 124. There's been a bunch of stories about the viral nature of a TikTok video of people reading the letter from Osama bin Laden. It's stunning to those of us who were alive during 9-11 and yet millions upon millions of people have viewed it. Does that say something about algorithms? How do you view that as the education secretary? You're right, Phil. It is stunning. I was a school principal when that happened and that impacted how we taught students and how we protected students that day. I do believe there's a lot of misinformation and we have a responsibility collectively to make sure we're guiding students on how to look for misinformation, how to be educated consumers of information. But I also think we need to continue to work with parents to make sure that they're aware of what tools they have at their disposal to limit misinformation from students and protect their students. That's the secretary of education. How about you admit that the education department of the Biden regime is reinforcing the oppressor oppressed dynamics that sow the seeds for this sort of embrace of radicalism. And what's so telling about this entire TikTok story, how proud they are to go with their face and their name associated and to say, yeah, he was really great or he's not that bad. He's really smart as if there's no consequence to that whatsoever. Email us your thoughts freedom at charliekirk.com. Many of you have emailed us and you said, I assumed that people would just roll their eyes over this crazy letter. No, the next generation of voters and thinkers are embracing it.
"osama" Discussed on The Charlie Kirk Show
"This is Tucker Carlson on MSNBC with Rachel Maddow. We do not know the date of this, but Tucker talks about how the Osama bin Laden letter was not on his threats, but it's a political argument against neocons. I recently had lunch with Tucker. This is before this went viral. This is what's crazy. Tucker and I were privately meeting and I don't want to share too many details, but Tucker basically said they came after me really hard for this. It's all public stuff. And so I think I mentioned this before this went viral and they came after him as an anti-Semite and Tucker's like, oh my God, he almost lost his career. Play cut 132 of 20 years ago, Tucker Carlson. The substance of this was not really about his threats. Actually, it was much more complicated than that. I've read, I think every public communicate he's come out with and they're always about the Crusaders and the Jews and how Israel is evil and we're going to kill you. This was not about that. Actually, he was making a political case. You read the whole thing. It was about how the war in Iraq is doomed because the American people don't support it. And the war in Iraq was waged in the first place because the warmongers at Halliburton and the crazed neocons were behind it. And they, you know, changed Bush's mind and got him to support it. That's like, do you recognize that argument? I mean, I do recognize that argument. What Tucker's talking about is the Osama bin Laden letter. That's what he's talking about. So he connected the dots because understand, none of the major networks were covering this. So people have been lied to and they feel lied to. You can find the letter at Newsweek.com. And by the way, some of these like fake intellectuals on TikTok are like, I'm so impressed by Osama bin Laden. He's so smart. It's not smart. Honestly, it's just not. It's just kind of mainline Muslim finger wagging. I hate you because of this and I'm going to kill you. Okay. Thanks, pal. Got it. Now, this letter, though, is being used just to say, okay, Charlie guy, what does that do now? Let me tell you right now, fast forward. This letter is now being used as an instrument against supporting Israel. So Gen Z is saying, see, there wouldn't be 9-11. There wouldn't be Islamic terror if we did not support Israel. See confirmation bias. This letter is now being used as confirmation bias. And then they say, they're kicking it off TikTok. They're kicking it off The Guardian. It must be true. It's a big conspiracy. So here again is my advice of which is not heated at all. If you are a pro-Israel person, if you're a pro-American person and you are bothered by the fact that the Osama bin Laden letter is going viral, confront it directly with speech. Don't censor it. Debate it. Be like, okay, well, this is not that, you know, structurally smart. Like this is actually very weird Islamic theology at times talking about, like, you have to kill the non-believers. You're mad that we didn't get into the the treaty at Kyoto over global, like this is an unhinged lunatic. This is not that smart. That's how you handle it. You don't bury it. If you bury it, it's as if you're worried that the information is true. This it's it is information warfare. In fact, if you want it to get bigger, you would bury it. And I'm just flipping through this. The American army is part of the American people. It's the very same people who shamelessly help in the Jews fight against us. This is why the American people cannot be innocent of all the crimes committed by the Americans and Jews against us. Allah the Almighty legislated the permission and the option to take revenge. Thus, this is what people consider smart. Thus, if we attacked, then we have the right to attack back whoever has destroyed our villages and towns, then we have to destroy their villages and towns. Whoever has stolen our wealth, then we have the right to destroy their economy. Whoever has killed our civilians, we have the right to kill theirs. And the American government and press still refuse to answer the question, why did they attack us in New York and Washington? He's saying, we attacked you because you guys have been imperialistically moving into the Middle East. You want my theory? This letter was suppressed by neocons that are so intellectually fragile that they were afraid that if this letter was discussed, their warmongering plans would have fallen apart. That's why it was buried. And it is buried right now for similar reasons. Here is Tucker Carlson. This got him in a lot of trouble. I'm going to get the organization that came after him. I'm being imprecise with that. But this is Tucker debating with Rachel Maddow 20 years ago on MSNBC. It got him in a huge scandal saying that if you read the Osama bin Laden letter, it will change your mind. Plate gut 133. It's not that I'm taking my eye on the ball. And of course, I'm not Rachel Osama. And Osama threatens the U.S. is hardly a headline. It's background noise. It's the boilerplate. He threatens America by his existence. I just think it's uncanny. And I think you should reread it. It'll change your mind. And then play cut 134. Osama criticizes Bush. Ted Kennedy criticizes Bush. Therefore, Osama loves Ted. No, no, no. It's ridiculous. I'm not saying that. I'm saying he's not criticizing. And there's nothing wrong with criticizing Bush. I criticize Bush. I'm saying he's criticizing Bush in exactly the same ways with exactly the same terminology. It's literally like he got the blast facts from HQ. This is Tucker Carlson and Rachel Maddow and MSNBC. What a different world we lived in. What a different world we lived in. The full text can be found at Newsweek.com. That is the number one news story with young people. And then it's just they go the next step, which is just so, so sick.
"osama" Discussed on The Charlie Kirk Show
"If you read the Bin Laden letter, it does beg a question of, okay, they say he wrote this. I mean, very well could have been edited by a third party because it's very, very well written. And honestly, I don't trust the CIA at all. So maybe the CIA was involved. But I mean, let's just take it at face value that Osama bin Laden wrote this. Let's just take it. And it's written directly to the American people, allegedly. And he says, quote, why are we fighting and opposing you? Why are we calling to you? What do you want from you now? And it's all about the creation of Israel. He says, quote, the creation of Israel is a crime that must be erased. Each and every person whose hands have become polluted in the contribution towards this crime must pay its price and pay for it heavily. It brings us to both laughter and tears to see that you Americans have not yet grown tired of your fabricated lies. The Jews have a historical right to Palestine as it was promised to them in the Torah. Anyone who disputes with them on this alleged fact is accused of antisemitism. This is one of the most fallacious, widely circulated fabrications in history. The people of Palestine are pure Arabs and original Semites. It is the Muslims who are the inheritors of Moses, peace be upon him, and the real inheritors of the real Torah, which have not changed. Muslims believe, this is just mainline Muslim belief, by the way. Muslims believe in all the prophets, including Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad, which is true. Peace and blessings of Allah be upon all of them. If the followers of Moses have been a promised right to Palestine in the Torah, then the Muslims are the most worthy nation of this. Continues, and I'll close with this. When the Muslims conquered Palestine and drove out the Romans, Palestine and Jerusalem returned to Islam. The religion of the prophets, peace be upon them. Therefore, the call to a historical right to Palestine cannot be raised against the Islamic ummah and believed in all the prophets of Allah, and peace and blessing be upon them. Okay, and we make no distinctions. Okay, so you guys can read this letter. Oh wait, you can't. I was going to tell you where to find this letter. It's very hard to find. There's nothing, I mean, again, does this move me in any way? My biggest complaint with this whole thing, the reason why it's going viral to a generation being taught to hate the country, so you have this fertile ground of a generation taught to hate the country, hate the west, and they read this thing from Osama bin Laden like, oh my goodness, what's next Mein Kampf? Probably. I mean, the new TikTok thing is going to say, you know, this Hitler guy, he got a really bad rap. It's coming soon, I'm telling you. It's, but if you want to make something bigger, censor it. In the new internet era, it makes something sexier. It's not the internet era. It's just, it's a rule for life. You used to be able to get away with outright banning before the internet, before television, before radio. You used to be able to create things on the fringes. This is something that we're going to have to face big time. And for those of us that are on the side of the truth, even if the truth makes you uncomfortable, I think we're living through the most exciting enlightenment that I've lived through. People are waking up to the COVID vaccine thing. People are waking up to the idea that we should have locked down schools and put masks on kids. People are waking up to Ukraine. They're waking up to the border. They are waking up to the race hustle that has dominated our country. They're waking up to the trans nonsense. They're waking up to a variety of things. Election integrity, safe and secure, most secure election in our lifetime. They're waking up to all of the anti-whiteness in our culture. It is now acceptable to point out anti-white racism. That is a moving of the Overton window. They used to smear anyone in the right when they used to have a sign that says, it's okay to be white. Oh my goodness, they would come after you. The kids, the Gen Z-ers that go on TikTok and they say, it's all a lie. Hold on, time out, be a little more precise than that. But they're not totally incorrect when they're saying that we have been lied to repeatedly. Our government has told us lie after lie and then covered it up and smeared and censored and attacked us. We've been saying this for quite some time. And what makes something seem more true when you can't even find it? And so, I mean, I read this Osama bin Laden letter. It's written by a madman. It's written by a maniac. I don't think it's smart, honestly. I don't, I think it's somewhat well-written as far as just stylistically, maybe a CIA agent helped him. Maybe, I don't know, maybe a Westerner helped him. I think this has been edited. I find it hard to believe that he wrote every word of this, but let's just say he did. Okay, let's just for argument's sake. Okay, it's just like mainline radical Islam. Like this is not stuff that you're not, you mean you guys watch memory, M-E-M-R-I? It's like no different. Like, okay, yeah, the nation of martyrdom, the nation that desires more death than you desire life. Okay, great. Yeah, Quran page 3, 169, 171, the nation of victory and success that Allah promised. Okay, like this is not that shocking. So then it ventures the guess, and this is where the Gen Z kids are onto something, not their worship of bin Laden. That's a bunch of crap. Let me be very clear. That is a bunch of morally repugnant poison, but some of the Gen Z kids, because you don't want to say, you don't want to paint with too big, broad of a brush, but some of the Gen Z kids, they're saying, wait a second, if we would have known about this 20 years ago, would we have engaged into these adventurous, aggressive wars? That's a legitimate question. And some of you in our email inbox, by the way, we're getting thousands of emails, Charlie, why have I never heard about this? Charlie, why have I never heard about this? Charlie, why have I never heard about this? By the way, newsweek.com still does have the letter up. And I encourage you guys to read. I don't think you should be afraid of confronting something that is evil. In fact, I think it's necessary. So let's go back into the way back machine and talk about how this was suppressed.
"osama" Discussed on The Charlie Kirk Show
"And they are right about that. They've never been taught a lot of things. They've never been taught who Osama bin Laden is and how evil he is. But a rule that has been proven to be true over time is that when you suppress something and you censor something, you make it more interesting. It is the Streisand effect. This story has been suppressed for 20 years. I don't find it that interesting. It's kind of all over the place. It's, you know, because you guys didn't join Kyoto and all this. It feels like excuses. He hates Jews. He hates America. And what is the reaction? Well, now the letter has been banned from TikTok. That's only going to make the letter even bigger. The Guardian took it down. Either we in the West can handle what the letter says or not. That's the wrong way to handle this. Start censoring it and start manipulating algorithms. That makes it feel like it's more true, which it really isn't. There's no truth to the idea that Osama bin Laden is some sort of wise person, some sort of deep thinker like Gen Z is thinking. You know, he's repulsive. He's also had some very weird stuff on his computer, like very weird stuff. Nikki Haley has come out and said, Nikki says viral Biden, a bin Laden letter is proof that we need to ban TikTok. Well, we need to ban TikTok for other reasons, not just the bin Laden letter. But why is the gut reaction when something ugly goes viral that we need to start banning stuff? Why don't we go out there and talk about this and say, you know what? We should have had a national conversation about the bin Laden letter back in 2002. Would we have invaded Iraq if we had talked about this letter? I don't know. Who actually tried to censor this letter from coming out back in 2002? For 10 years, Patriot Mobile has been America's only Christian conservative wireless provider. And when I say only, trust me, they're the only one. I think the world of Patriot Mobile. They are amazing people. Glenn and the whole team. We have dinner frequently. I've gotten to know them. They're incredible. And I'm so proud to partner with them. They are donors to Turning Point USA. They are the best. You see, Patriot Mobile, they offer dependable nationwide coverage, giving you ability to access all three major networks, which means you get the same coverage that you're accustomed to without funding the left. So look, you got to make the switch today. And when you do that, when you switch to Patriot Mobile, you send a clear, convincing and resounding message that you support freedom of speech, religious liberty, the sanctity of life, Second Amendment, our military veterans and first responder heroes. Their 100% U.S. based customer service team can make switching very easy. So you keep your number, you keep your phone or you upgrade. Their team will help you find the best plan for your needs. Just go to patriotmobile.com slash charlie or call 972-PATRIOT. Glenn and the team there will be more than happy to help you. Just tell them Charlie Kirk sent you. They're amazing. Super great to work with. Very generous supporters of Turning Point USA and Turning Point Action. They are mission aligned. Have your cell phone bill work for the country. Make your cell phone bill work for America. Join me and make the switch today. That is patriotmobile.com slash charlie. Full endorsement, patriotmobile.com slash charlie or call 972-PATRIOT.
"osama" Discussed on The Charlie Kirk Show
"Get off your iPhone. Pay attention to your child. Look at your kids lessons. Get out. Step down from the Women's March, which, by the way, it was totally anti-Semitic when we called it out, as did many at the time. Do some parenting if you're going to bother having a child and stop indoctrinating your own children to those of you who are on the left in this pernicious woke ideology, because this is where it lands. I'm very fired up about it, Carol. I feel like we're totally forgetting. We're forgetting 9-11. And it's you know, what's going to happen? It's going to happen again. Well, we are forgetting 9-11 because we are framing an attack on a Western country as heroic. That's what happens when you send your kid to college far too often. I like Meghan's approach. I'm going to add to it. The reason I like Meghan's approach is that it's not enough just to say, oh, it's the government schools. It's the media. It starts at home. And the quality of parenting has declined in recent years. As Meghan put it in her tweet, how many parents are just boozing away, letting kids look at their phones all day long. It's a decline of the entire moral fabric of the country. The quality of parenting that I have seen is declining day by day. So The Guardian, back in November of 2002, published Bin Laden's letter to America. Now, we stumbled upon this letter to America through a very strange series of events. It was on a laptop that we happened to find and a reporter obtained it. This should have been the number one news story on the planet. Why isn't it? We should have debated it when it came out back in November of 2002. Tucker Carlson, working for either CNN or MSNBC at the time, tried to cover it. I think it was CNN. And he was attacked relentlessly by the American Council of Rabbis. In this letter, it's a grab bag of stuff. Osama bin Laden says, I did 9-11 because you guys didn't join the Kyoto Protocol for global warming. OK, that you guys are allowing your women to become degraded. But the part here that is going viral is more than anything else is Osama bin Laden said that we planned 9-11. We did 9-11 because you support Israel. He said, why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple. One, because you attacked us and continued to attack us. A, you attacked us in Palestine. This is his very first justification for the attacks. He says, quote, the creation of Israel is a crime which must be erased. Each and every person whose hands have become polluted in the contribution towards the crime must pay its price and pay for it heavily. He then goes on to say, you attacked us in Somalia. You supported the Russian atrocities against us in Chechnya, the Indian oppression against us in Kashmir, very strange, and the Jewish aggression against us in Lebanon. It's going viral because a generation says I've never been taught this.
"osama" Discussed on The Charlie Kirk Show
"We get it. You're busy. You don't have time to waste on the mainstream media. That's why Salem News Channel is here. We have hosts worth watching, actually discussing the topics that matter. Andrew Wilkow, Dinesh D'Souza, Brandon Tatum, and more. Open debate and free speech you won't find anywhere else. We're not like the other guys. We're Salem News Channel. Watch any time on any screen for free 24-7 at snc.tv and on local now channel 525. Hey everybody, Osama bin Laden going viral from the grave. Gen Z embraces Osama bin Laden. What is in the Osama bin Laden letter and why is a generation that hates the country so affectionate towards Osama bin Laden? Amfest speakers are announced. They are amazing everybody. It's amfbest.com, December 16, 17, 18, 19, Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens, Rob Schneider, Roseanne Barr, Dennis Prager, and more. Go to amfest.com. That's amfbest.com, amfest.com. Email me as always freedom at charliekirk.com. Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campuses. I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks. I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created Turning Point USA. We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here. Brought to you by the loan experts I trust, Andrew and Todd at Sierra Pacific Mortgage at andrewandtodd.com. So Osama bin Laden is going viral. If you fail to teach a generation good from evil, right from wrong, don't be shocked when they start to embrace some of the most evil people ever to live. America is the greatest nation ever to exist in the history of the world, and I have told our donors and our supporters and many of you that support us at Turning Point USA, the majority of young people view America as the enemy. They believe that this country they are living in is an evil country. So don't be shocked when a generation who hates the country because they've been told to hate the country starts to embrace the enemies of the country. Now the story is actually much deeper than that, but let me kind of tell you the entire last 48 hours, 72 hours basically. And by the way, Generation Z is confused on men and women. Are we shocked that they sympathize with terrorists? This recent chapter of virality is what happens when you send your kids to college. Do not be shocked when you subsidize anti-Americanism, subsidize anti-Western ideas and beliefs, and all of a sudden Gen Z says, wow, I think Osama bin Laden is this very smart man. Going viral on TikTok, which should have been banned by Republicans years ago, Donald Trump should have banned TikTok, but he didn't. Going viral on TikTok, a Chinese Communist Party application, is Osama bin Laden's manifesto, his letter to America, explaining in his own words why he planned 9-11, why he did it. Now this goes all the way back to 2002. For me, this was not news. I remember reading this back in 2009, 2010. There's a lot in this letter that is worth talking about, and we're going to talk about it. This is an evil man. This is modern Hitler who writes this letter. A couple of people on TikTok said, oh, did you know why Osama bin Laden allegedly planned 9-11? Do you know why he did it? And it went viral. 10 million people on TikTok talking about it. In fact, many people, young people, Gen Zers, are praising Osama bin Laden, saying that Osama bin Laden is getting a bad rap. Now understand, many of these youngsters, they have no memory of 9-11. I remember exactly where I was when those planes hit those two towers. I was in the second grade classroom. I remember exactly where I was. This is an important clip here. Play cut 128, a montage of Gen Zers on TikTok reacting to the bin Laden letter. Play cut 128. Actually, before you even read the letter, I did want to mention, in reading the letter, I can only think of this tweet that I saw the other day. Under settler colonialism, any kind of resistance is branded as terrorist because the only acceptable violence is violence by the occupier. So please keep that in mind when reading the letter. It is just insane because this letter is so well written and so reasonably structured. In an argument, you got to present your findings, you got to state your cause, all that. Everything he said was valid. Gen Z is embracing Osama bin Laden. Not everyone in Gen Z, but it has gone beyond viral. I'm gonna go here to cut 126. TikToker. I'm not about here to sit here and act like Osama bin Laden is the worst person in America. By the way, this is such a big story. It's the front page of the New York Post. Put 125 up. Some of you might say, Charlie, what do you mean I'm not on TikTok? This is the number one story for Gen Zers right now. The number one conversation in the country is Osama bin Laden's letter because it involves Israel. World gone madman. Play cut 126. I turned, y'all defending Osama bin Laden now? It's not that I'm defending him. I'm not defending him because like, but I'm not about to sit here and act like he's just the worst person in the world when America has literally been terrorizing people since the beginning of history. America is when, what's his name, whatever the guy's name is that discovered America and found the land, he lied. It's been a lie. Everything's a lie. And then it's like, okay, defending Osama bin Laden and we're supposed to be defending America for giving them our hard earned money to kill people for Gen Z. Like what? They don't even make, like, I'm so pissed off right now. I don't even understand. Like, oh my God. Been seen millions and millions of times. It's an opinion and an attitude that is being embraced by this up and coming Gen Z. But what is it? I think it's a lot more complicated than some people are framing it. I agree with what Megyn Kelly said yesterday. I think it's an incomplete analysis, but I do agree. This is a failure of parenting and a failure of the American culture. Parents are awful, largely in America right now. They have not done a good enough job of teaching the history. You get tyranny, you get madness, you get chaos when you do not teach a generation what has happened prior. As it says in the book about Exodus, then rose a king of Egypt who did not know Joseph. If you do not know what came before you, the sacrifices, the toil, then you get madness. We have done a terrible job of teaching the next generation. What was 9-11? Who are the good guys? The moral shallowness is remarkable. But it's an incomplete answer. It's also gone viral because this letter has been largely censored. And it is written in a way where if you are not educated correctly, you think as if you have stumbled upon something revealing. That which you censor and you suppress, you run the risk of getting more of. Instead of having a dialogue about what this letter is and what it contained when it came out in 2002, it was buried. Tucker Carlson, way back when, I think he was working at CNN at the time, decided to talk about this letter on air and he was attacked by the American Council of Rabbis as being an anti-Semite. Because there are things in it that are misunderstood by an evil madman Hitlerian figure. What is in the Osama bin Laden letter? Have you ever heard of it? Have you read it? Well, theguardian.com made a huge mistake. They decided to take down the letter as it was going viral on TikTok, creating the Barbara Streisand effect, where famously only a couple people were viewing the picture of her home. And then she said, I'm going to sue to not have people be able to view pictures of my home and people than wanted to view pictures of her home. What is in the Osama bin Laden letter? What does it contain? Public Square is one of my favorite apps. There are progressive corporations out there that are just doing terrible things. And Public Square is out there leading the charge against all this garbage that we see from Target, for example, Starbucks strong arming their customers to support abortion and financial services like PayPal, canceling customers for their political views. Thankfully, we don't have to fund these companies any longer at Public Square. We now have a solution. Join the movement of millions of patriotic Americans who love truth, our country and our constitution at public askew. M.O.B.I. slash Charlie Kirk. Public Square is an app and a website where you can get connected to tens of thousands of businesses from all different industries that share your value for life, family and freedom. Public Square is free to joining. It started today. If you're a business owner, join. If you're a consumer, join. Check it out. Download the Public Square app today. Michael, who runs Public Square, does a beautiful job. Good friend of mine, 100 percent behind him. Check it out today.
Hamas Purposely Put Military Bases Underneath Civilian Hospitals
"You do that? They would do that because they know what? They know that the Israelis will likely not deliberately target civilians in hospitals. So they will put those people in severe danger in the hopes that the civilized man will not kill them and will kill the hostages, well they are hostages, they are hostages of Hamas, will kill the people in the hospital first so they can use them for a PR play. You Jim's voice, but this is an actual interrogation. Take a listen. The main system of tunnels, where is it? There is one to Osama and one to Mahata. The main system is there. Tell me then, and what is the connection between the tunnels The hospitals, most of them are hidden in the hospitals, hidden next to or under it. For You imagine that? You want to see what a demon looks like in real life? No, it's not in some medieval painting, it's that. You put your military bases beneath hospitals to use sick civilians as your sick, I mean literally sick, physically ill civilians, to put them between you and your air
"osama" Discussed on Game of Crimes
"But the support individuals, they're the soft belly of any illegal organization, whether it be terrorists or narcotics. The money people, the logistics, the support, anything that makes those things happen. Exactly. They're the movers and shakers, but they have to have a public persona. You cannot do that from a cave in Afghanistan. So what we did was we identified three Hezbollah, three Al-Qaeda, three this, that and the other, and we sent out my guys. I actually quit the chief ops job and became special investigations team or something like that. We were out there literally in first, second and third world countries getting patterns of life on these guys and developing operational scenarios. The concept being, using Hezbollah as an example, Hezbollah had killed more Americans than any other terrorist organization prior to 9-11. Including, what was it, 243 Marines? Yep, one of them, my first Karate student as a matter of fact. The concept being that if all of a sudden we start getting chatter from Hezbollah that something's going on, something's going on, the indicators, peripheral sources are identifying that, liaison services are identifying that, what do you think happens to an organization if all of a sudden three of your key support mechanisms get shut down? And we had three options. Compromise them, put drugs in their car put explosives in their cars, call the cops duct tape them, do a rendition operation or just shoot them. What would an organization that all of a sudden has three of their people in different places all wrapped up at the same moment? They're going to hit the brakes because they're going to think they're penetrating. So that was the concept that I developed we had the team, we delivered we had a very robust operational scenarios for several real bad guys that needed to be neutralized that we should have done with bin Laden one way or the other whatever the president decided was legal but we delivered on all that but they never allowed us to neutralize any of the targets and after my second briefing and there's an explanation of that in the book too with Pavitt Jim Pavitt was our DDO and the DCI George Tenet that I briefed on a very sophisticated operation that we had sweated all the details and at the end the DDO says Mr. Director there's no doubt in my mind in our mind that Prado and his guys not only can do this but they can get away with it I'm ready to do high fives right then he says however we have to look at the political implications of doing this now I retired sixty days later oh geez and you outline that in the book I'm looking at the page right here in my hand as you're talking man it just drains the wind out of your cells hearing that they back off when it's time to take action like that and it's not that we want to be murderers here in the United States we're trying to protect Americans that's what this whole thing is about we're talking about true American heroes and patriots here that are doing everything they can to protect us and we let politics get in the way and that is the problem we're at war with terrorism we're at war with communism we have it so good as a country that we don't not only know how good we have it but we don't understand the real threats that are out there our soldiers they can kill somebody in a combat zone right if you're a police officer and somebody shoots back and you tries to resist or something whatever it is you are allowed to neutralize our target we as U.S. government writ large how many people have we killed with drones? quite a few well deserved don't get me wrong the problem is my program the one that I try to put together or the one that I put together we had like you said real good Americans on the ground in dangerous areas surveilling these guys, photographing these guys, getting patterns of life of these guys but we were not allowed to neutralize and that's another handicap you cannot fight a war unless you are neutralizing the enemy in war there is only one way to neutralize the enemy is to take them down a perfect example is after 9-11 our country galvanized we all came together man we were so ticked off I was living up in D.C. at the time and there were American flags hanging from every bridge out on the toll roads it didn't matter where you went people had taken bed sheets America Strong everybody was on the same page of music but man we have such short memories you know it was no time at all before people started going back the other way it's like well we got to be nice to these people it's like a lot of cops think you got to give the bad guy the first shot they got to be able to shoot at you first before you can respond that's not the law at all it just boggles your mind and there are so many do-gooders in our country here go visit and live in a foreign country for just a short amount of time and then come back to the United States and tell me what you think then because I think you'll change your position oh I am convinced of that and I can definitely vouch for that but you know to clarify a point it wasn't the administration that did not approve this because remember I briefed the Vice President of the United States and Condoleezza Rice and their word was go, get it done you let us know before you pull the trigger we will brief the right people in Congress but once you have a final ops plan come back to us it was CIA administration that unfortunately had lost their backbone through politics you know George Tenet a lot of people think that he was a good director but a very very good friend of mine who was very close to him said to me one day when this topic came up he says he's not a wartime consigliere he was great for the sub-Russia political stuff and everything that went around but when you are at war and we were at war post 9-11 for a while anyway you have to have somebody who knows how to fight, who's got the courage to go on the line and what was told to me by again people in the know was that they were more concerned agency management with the fact that look if this thing is a success if Prado and his team are a success we can't get the credit for it the agency will not be able to say yeah we did that but if it fails they're the ones that go to jail what's that old saying? success has many fathers but failure is an orphan let me ask you a couple things you might remember these guys I ran into them, got to talk with them Jonathan Terry used to do the PDB for Cheney during this time his son and my son wrestled together but I got to know does the name Glenn Gaffney ring a bell? no it doesn't Glenn was the director of DS &T and then he became an assistant director maybe after you left you were talking about Patterns of Life I was having a discussion with him he was 30 years at the agency but was on the directorate of science and technology and those guys I loved what you said and I wish we would incorporate this more you were talking about Patterns of Life looking at stuff, I'm working with him on a different project but it was like, he says look he used to tell those people if the rules of the game aren't working for you change the game too often we want to look at the rules if you really want to disrupt stuff, change the game don't play by the rules that's the problem we've had my quick turn for rent because I had some friends in the agency we talked about some of this one of the biggest things they saw is nobody wanted to take a risk anymore lawyers got involved people were being pulled before congress and being hammered it was like, we're trying to do good here and we're spending all our time getting targeted when they were told hey, we're going to come after you CIA people for these enhanced interrogation techniques that's bad you guys shouldn't have done that I mean, how soul-sucking is it to be doing your job and have elected political leaders like the president of the United States saying hey, if you did these things we're going to come after you quit doing that kind of shit because we're going to start putting people in jail for stuff like this yeah, and you know a very clear thing we were authorized not only by the president but also DOJ bought off and approved the methods and what people don't understand that what was carried out is not torture it's called enhanced interrogations and all of us who are special in the military go through a course called SEER SEER school is exactly that they don't let you sleep for days they don't feed you, they slap you around they don't let you sleep they're playing loud music I spent, I don't know how many days could have been three, could have been five in a phone booth size box with two cans one to pee in and the other one to poop in and getting interrogated two or three times a day that's what we we put our special people through to prepare them if they get compromised this is the best that can happen to them because it's actually worse so yeah, the politics again kicked in it was a change of administration and all of a sudden those were the kind of things that they could really throw a lot of mud at just to throw out there Morgan you mentioned the PDB for our listeners that's the president's daily briefing oh I'm in trouble we're supposed to define acronyms and there I went violating one of my own rules I will drink two beers tonight instead of one as punishment for that but Rick, let me ask you this because we're going to be closing we want to be respectful of your time but the other thing too is we intentionally wanted to record this so that we could get this out on 9-11 this episode is going to drop on Monday 9-11 let's talk about after you've finished but now that you can reflect back on it now that you're free of certain things you're unencumbered with certain things that you can say what is going on in the world right now and what do we need to be concerned about that we're not keeping our eye on the ball I think we've taken our eye off the ball on several things for a long time for example like China I don't want to say Iran but I think we've pissed away some advantages we've had with Iran and I grew up there when my dad was military he lived under the days of the Shah talk about a country that has completely changed what's the big picture now if you were given a briefing to senior people and businesses and governments what would be your message what is going on in the world right now that we're missing the ball on we're missing the ball on the fact that they are real predators out in the world and they do want to destroy us the Russians, the Chinese, the Iranians radical Muslim terrorism have one goal and that's to dominate we don't understand that as Americans because we have such a beautiful albeit fragile democracy we cannot conceptualize what the enemy is willing to do and this is something that I've taught for years when I was working with the folks overseas you cannot judge operations by your morality you have to look at operations by the morality of your enemy they will take and this happened to us in Iraq they took a guy that had clearance to go into the green zone they took his son they took his daughter they shot his daughter and said if you don't put this device in the compound we're going to shoot your kid I could never do that forgotten country I couldn't do that but you have to understand that our enemy does and I mentioned it earlier you cannot run military or intelligence operations through a political optic have the courage to cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war because that's what we are we can go in there, take care of a problem perfect example if somebody could have shot Hitler in 1939 or if somebody could have shot Fidel Castro in 1970 something or if we would have been able to neutralize Bin Laden in 1996-97 we'd be living in a very different world with any of those three phenomenon you make a great point because there were initiatives I think a little bit too late but you still had the plot to kill Hitler which the movie Valkyrie is about but real people people decided they didn't want this I know we tried several times with Castro people look at it and they go oh well you can't do that that's not fair killing 243 marines killing 3000 Americans you listed it out in your book so much that's what's not fair we've got to get rid of this concept of fair I had a political science professor tell me fair doesn't exist, fair is the place you go ride rides and have cotton candy we've got to quit thinking of this concept of the word fair let me give you a last word because we want to talk about some of the stuff you're doing now let's say that the government was able to seduce you and bring you back to say look we want you to create policy to do things differently I had a concern that maybe we got too attached to technology like e-lint, electronic intelligence signals intelligence but we've kind of lost our way with human intelligence did they not let me ask you that, just throw that out there for you to talk about are we doing everything we can or if Rick Prada was in charge you were king you were in charge for 6 months or whatever it would take what would you do differently to make CIA and even other organizations more effective in delivering the kind of results we need to make a safer America well the first thing is take the politics out of it the second is grow some backbone and pride for your country third is realize that our enemies are trying to kill us it's not a concept they would love to destroy us as a country or as individuals let us do what our charters are it's like you guys with law enforcement you don't need new laws you need to be allowed to enforce the laws that are already in the book hallelujah brother that's just me and Murph raising our hands going hallelujah and the agency we know our charter we know what we're capable we've demonstrated it with a contrast we've demonstrated it with post 9-11 the agency can cowboy up and get things done but you've got to let them loose you've got to protect them because what happens is you were talking about enhanced interrogations that hit home because the guy that really bore the saddle in this was Jose Rodriguez Jose Rodriguez is one of my best friends he was the DDO I got his book I actually had a chance to meet him down at Fox News great well him and I are actually neighbors that's how far back we go with big motorcycle rides for decades but anyway, Jose got wrapped into this whole thing and literally destroyed him for quite a while until he was able to extricate himself out and prove him not guilty and everything else but the bottom line is you cannot play you cannot fight a war through Queensbury rules if your enemy is an MMA mixed martial arts expert you're going to get your butt kicked every single time you have to be able to do the same things with the same ferocity but with a higher morality because we are the United States we do have that Christian concept but absolutely if I was king for a day I would allow our respective agencies to first be politics be taken out of it in the case of the CIA we have guys like Colfer Black we got guys like Jose Rodriguez that could be our DCIs those are the kind of people that you want as directors of an agency people that have been on the streets that understand what our concepts are not a political appointee who owes his or her alliance to the administration the alliance of a leader of any organization is their people so I honestly believe if we depoliticize the situation and we allow under the legal charters that we enjoy to actually go after our enemies and let them know that we're here and I think that's something we have lost over the years a great 100% I don't want to say I had an argument but I had a vigorous discussion with somebody whose political leanings were quite different than mine but here's what we ought to do I said let me ask you a question I said how do you negotiate and how would you negotiate with somebody whose opening premise is I want to kill you where do you go from there? perfect example and that is exactly what it is and this is why I said Jimmy Carter is the perfect example I don't like talking politics that's not my thing but I like history like you Jimmy Carter was a good man former military admiral honest he was corrupt good Christian, everything was there except he came across as food he was vacillating he did it with the rescue of our hostages the Iranian hostages during Iran and everything else but look what happened during his short administration we lost the Panama canal the Russians invade Afghanistan the Iranians take our hostages for 444 days what happened when Ronald Reagan took over within 24 hours our hostages in Iran were released why do you think that is? because they knew that this guy was going to use the hammer and the same way as you guys working undercover with a perp they got to look at you across the table and go if I mess with this guy he's going to bite me back well said keep doing this for another couple of hours but we want to talk about first of all, this is us saluting you and me saluting you, saying thank you for your service to our country especially someone who comes from Cuba and knew what it was like I mean, looking at your window seeing automatic weapons I never saw an automatic weapon until I was at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri first time I saw one, I was a Kansas farm boy we saw 22 rifles in .308s anyway, I say that to say this we're so proud of what you did but I'm very proud of what you continue to do because Murph has a saying, and I'll let you say what it is Murph, before I ask him my question about cops? about what? do you understand the words coming out of my lips? not very well today but we do have a saying that just because we retire does not mean that our oaths expired and you're a living example and that's why we want everybody to know what you're doing now thank you very much that's very kind of you the respect is mutual, and so is the salute one of the things that when I left the agency, I went to Blackwater for six years actually, more than that doing the same thing as a matter of fact, I was vice president for special government programs even the FBI will call that a clue I don't mean to interrupt you, Rick you've got to tell us how you got to Blackwater because I read it in the book, and it's hilarious yeah it was funny because what happened was, when 9-11 happened we needed security in Kabul and the State Department, of course was exploding, trying to protect all the embassies so they said, we need to bring in some privateers our executive director Bozy Crongaard, a very dear friend a big supporter of my programs I wish he had been my boss at the time his son was a SEAL he opened up SEAL Team 7 he introduced Eric Prince in Blackwater to the agency, and that was the first security detail that went into Afghanistan was Blackwater and Eric Prince was part of it even though he was the boss, he was actually part of the detail and then what happened, when I started that special program at the end of my career I didn't want to train in our black facilities because if they see a guy with my background and my reputation, with a bunch of meat eaters, doing all this repelling upside down kind of stuff, they're going to say something's going on, so I went to Eric and I said, we want to do some specialized training, but nobody can know who we are, what our names are, and that's how I got to be friends with Eric he saw what we were doing and when I retired he says, I want you to come to Blackwater and I want you to do this forgotten country you're going to be our moral conscience for the operations I will tell you, I did as much during my years of Blackwater as I did in the agency and had a lot more fun because I didn't have the political bullshit to deal with yeah, but initially you turned him down, and who recommended you for that job when you were at some event? you did read the book yeah, what happened was, I was so heartbroken when I left the agency I've been doing that for years now I did 24 years in the agency pararescue before that and I was exhausted, I had three years of flying all over the place, helping my guys chase these guys so when he first pitched me, I said, look I'm kind of burned out, I need a break hold on, hold on I love what you just said, here's the CIA term when he pitched me, it's like he's trying to turn you from the government side to the dark side exactly, well he pitched me but what happened was we were, Eric used to sponsor this event the gold cup, and I love horses and he knew that, so he always invited me and my wife to go to the gold cup and we're sitting there in the gold cup and Eric comes up, and my wife who's usually very shy Eric puts his arm around hey, how you doing, blah blah blah and my wife looks at him and says Eric, please give him a job he's driving me mad you gotta love him and Eric looked at me and goes really? I said yes, let's have lunch tomorrow and that's when he recruited me for the long term I love that story I think your wife was a co-conspirator in this initiative to get you on board with Blackwater yeah, she probably got some money on the side from Eric resourceful lady I think we call that a bump, don't we? was that not a bump there, Rick? that's the way it all starts hey, but you're involved in some other stuff too we were talking about kids and you've still got some stuff doing some training like Camp X and you've got the solo operator course, I looked at that as like oh my god, that would be so much fun to do 5 days, learning how as a solo operator with basically just a sidearm but surviving you're doing some I mean, stuff that just I start getting goosebumps when I look at this, but I like the stuff you're doing with kids what are you doing there? the two things that I've been engaged with first of all, there was a big transition in the military from kinetic options to actually being able to operate clandestinely for our special operations forces which means moving into my world so the whole concept of a lone operator is that now you have special operations guys that have to get rid of all their kit they have to blend in, they learn to learn to use disguise, learn to use surveillance detection and be very proficient in firearms handguns, not M4s knives, not guns because sometimes you're in places where you cannot carry a gun, the clandestine aspect, the fact that if you draw your weapon during an operation in the clandestine world you've blown the operation even if you survive it so that was a lot of fun because working for several years with the special operations, I taught at Fort Bragg our soft guys that advanced special operations and techniques course for seven years, and then with these guys we were doing all the good kinetic, concealed carry, real concealed carry, and how to take a gun from a military person so you can use it in a third world country, whatever the second effort that you referred to is AHRQ, it's Association of the Rescue of Children and I do this pro bono I'm on their board of directors and I provide overseas connectivity based on my substantial network that I built through the years of Blackwater and some of the agency also, and AHRQ, that's what they do, it's a non-profit Basil Bass is the guy who conceptualized it and ran it Basil is a former force recon guy who came to the agency as a paramilitary officer PMO, did about ten years and then went to Hollywood for a while and then he started this organization and he's done some good work retrieving kids that have been kidnapped and taken overseas and are preventing, so very proud of us No higher calling than that right there, we've had a couple other folks on here, just recently Ty Holland from Operation Underground Railroad who's a retired police officer from Seattle describing, he was just he was our guest on episode 113 and we've had victims on here who were victims of, Natasha Hersek was a victim of human trafficking and sex trafficking and we're doing our best to bring more attention to that particular topic now that the movie Sound of Freedom is out and people are aware of what's going on, so you know I was I found out this about you on your LinkedIn profile and brother I mean there's no higher calling than what you're doing right there, I'm just so proud that you're involved with that Thank you very much, we are too, we all have children and you know when these kids go through that, their lives will never be the same again, even if we rescue them the experience has to be something that will scar you for life Yeah, hey quick question before we close out, did you ever work with the FIRST Capabilities Integration Group? Interesting, they've got an interesting background too, a lot of the stuff you're doing anyway, let's do this let's bring this to a close, first of all this is a high honor, first of all for somebody who served the way you did and the places you were and I mean that literally, it's like I've got friends from the agency and when they can, the things that they can talk about you know we're only scratching the surface, we're only getting 5% of what you probably did, and by the way your book, I love you left the redactions in, it's kind of like okay, it's there I just can't talk about it, but you left the redactions in there, so I like that, people can do a little bit of sleuthing and maybe figure out a couple things, but I can't tell you how much we appreciate you taking your time and how important this was we got this recorded we had some technical challenges, we all overcame those, we figured it out because I wanted this to come out on 9-11 and I wanted people just to keep it in their forefront, don't let time erase these memories, don't get fatigued by the fact, ah here we go again, now that's what our enemies count on is for us to your point, we got adversaries that think in terms of generations, we think in terms of elections, and we've got to start changing our thinking, but again, saluting you Rick.
"osama" Discussed on Game of Crimes
"I think it was 1975. No, it was before that. It was before that. The building collapsed. I was either just out of high school or senior year in high school, and I graduated in 1970. I have the photo in the write-up. I'll send you a photo copy of that. Let's talk about now 9-11, because so many of us have got some intersection with it. You are at the center of the universe on this stuff. Some of the people, I've told them this before. I was in the Reagan building. We were supposed to be in the Pentagon meeting switch, so I'm in the Reagan building when the plane set, and I remember walking across the bridge, seeing the Pentagon burning. When the first plane hit, hey, there's something wrong here. Then the second one, it was obvious. But when 9-11 happened with you, what clicked? What changed? The easiest way for things to happen is for people to get religion. One way to get religion is for a bad incident to happen. People go, yeah, we should have done that. I don't want to get engaged in what we told you so type of stuff, but it was almost like, did any part of your head go, man, we told you so? We were hoping that this wouldn't happen, but we told you so. How did you respond? How did things change once 9-11 happened? How did it change in terms of op tempo, priorities, what they were willing to do to take the politics out of it and do what needed to be done? That's an excellent question and an excellent example of the way things can be done. The agency got tapped directly by the president to pay back for 9-11, figure out who it was, go out there and target him. A lot of people don't realize that the first boots on the ground in Afghanistan wasn't the Green Beret guys. Love them to death. I have some in the family, but it was my guys, guys that we sent, guys like Mike Spann, several others that were the first guys in and vectored those helicopters in. So the agency, this was a resurrection of the agency yet again. The Contra program was the first one. And now this again really put a lot of authorities on active. Our president then, Bush, signed on 17 September. He signed a lethal finding that allowed us to do whatever we needed to do to neutralize this threat. And it all goes into the politics. We have Title 50 authorities, which means we are allowed to do anything outside of the United States that the president of the United States authorizes us to do or directs us to do. So the gloves came off. We got into Afghanistan, we helped the military come in, we started neutralizing the Taliban, we started hitting these guys with drones. I personally, there's a story in the book where I blew up 17 of these Alpha hotels. So the gloves were off. But here was the biggest tipping point for me. I had grown up seeing local terrorism, then international terrorism, and understanding that preventing and disrupting terrorist operations is what it's really all about. And we did not have that for 9-11. We knew that something was happening. Every indication. They had gone radio silent, which was a big tip off. They kept talking about weddings and all this kind of stuff. And honey, which used to be things for explosives, they called it honey. These were key words. We knew something big was going on. But we couldn't pinpoint it and we couldn't disrupt it. So what came out of 9-11 besides a very robust response by CTC and CIA writ large in the war in Afghanistan, in the military of course, is I came up with a program that was meant to derail exactly this. My concept, I briefed Vice President Cheney and Condoleezza Rice. It's all in the book. The Reader's Digest version of it is the concept was to make book on two or three individuals from the support side of the House of every terrorist group and even some narcotics groups who were contemplating. The idea being that the leaders are hard to get at. The shooters are a dime a dozen.
"osama" Discussed on Game of Crimes
"At the time, the politics were non-engagement. They had other problems going on. The old, well, all it's going to do is it's going to really foment even more Islamic terrorism, radical terrorism. At the end of the day, we're so hamper-strung, because look, the Chinese have 100-year-old plans. The Russians have 50-year-long plans. We in the United States have four-year plans, maybe three, because by the third year you have to start campaigning to get re-elected. If there's a change, everything gets derailed, and we've seen that happen time and time again. Jimmy Carter, great person, wonderful man, very Christian, blah, blah, blah, but he was a wimp. Then Reagan comes in and all of a sudden we get things done. That phase for us puts us in a real handicap. They don't have to deal with Congress. I'm not saying that we shouldn't, on the contrary, but we definitely need to develop long-term strategies that benefit our country and not any political party. Well said. Exactly right. Yeah. Exactly. Your description to your discussion, your meeting with Dianne Feinstein, who was actually a supporter of DEA at one point when she was much younger, but wow, being the head of the Intelligence Committee and her response to you guys, and for our listeners, you've got to read this book. I mean, it's really, really eye-opening. I was shocked by her response to you guys. Yeah, that was a painful experience and a very big experience. I was already a senior grade officer. I made SIS in 98, and when we went to brief her, she was so vile and so hostile. It was incredible, but it was an eye-opener about, again, more indications of how bad politics can be for our community of cheap dogs. By the way, Charlie Mann was the name of the DEA guy who wanted to recruit me who got killed in the Charlie Mann, M-A-N-N. Okay. Yeah, and that was before my time, but God bless him.
"osama" Discussed on Game of Crimes
"Our case is more like what the FBI did, you know, infiltrating the mafia or something like that. We have to maintain a clandestine and secure relationship, but also a very healthy relationship. We have a motto in the business that says you never fall in love with your agent, but you make them think that you're in love with them. You're always stops testing them, you're always double checking, you always put them under surveillance to make sure that they're doing what they say that we're doing, but it is very different because it's a very different goal. We don't work on problems, we work on intelligence. Well let's use that as a good springboard to start moving forward because a lot of your world starts changing, we start talking about the Cold War, you start talking about terrorism starts rearing its head, but at some point you became, worked with Michael Schur and Alex Station, the bin Laden unit. Tell us about that. Yeah, I had just come back from Korea, I had just gotten my GS-15, and I was the head of the Palestinian branch for CTC, our counter-terrorist center, and I got called into the front office by the chief of ops, and he said, look, you know, your name has been raised to be deputy chief of station for this virtual station targeting terrorism. I had never heard of virtual station, we were the first, and talking to my boss I said, well thank you boss, I mean of course I'll, you know, deputy chief of station, hell yeah, but who are we going after? And he said Osama bin Laden. And I said, who? And he goes, exactly. Mike Sawyer, Sawyer was the analyst that had been following this, so he was the chief of station for Alex Station, I was his deputy chief of station, and I was the senior ops officer, we only had two other case officers, the rest were analysts, incredible analysts and targeting officers. And by the way, that's the very same unit that eventually got bin Laden, you know, geo-located and allowed under our authorities for the SEAL team to go shoot him in the face. Excellent. Room temperature was a good result for that, but yeah, and the sad part is too, I did some work with the state department over in Islamabad training their police, their federal investigative agency, special investigative group, and while we were there at that time is about the time they figured bin Laden ended up in Abbottabad, and that's just about 30 clicks north, 30 or 40 clicks north of Islamabad, you know, right under literally everybody's noses. I just, I still have some heartburn over how much cooperation he got from the Pakistani government. Did you have concerns about that or am I just off in left field here? No, the Pakistani government is completely dual purpose. You have people that love us and people that love to kill us, meaning Americans. They're the ones that created the Taliban, for God's sake. The ISI. Their intelligence service literally was the ones that actually helped create the Taliban. So that penetration was always there. We did have, according to people that worked there, I never did, we did have some very good liaison relationships with some Pakistanis, but they were infiltrated from the other side too quite a bit. Yeah, we ended up kicking a couple people out of our training that had, once some tenuous connections came to light, it was like, yeah, I think it spells ISI is what you should have put down as your organization, but what I'm interested in, let's go back to that because that, you know, like you said, bin Laden who, not many people took him seriously. He issued his fatwa, you know, he said, here's what we're going to do. And then we started getting the bombings. We got some bombings of the embassies, right? That's correct. Well, you know, yeah, that is one of the things that set us all off because we had, when bin Laden was still in Khartoum, when we opened up the station, when we started Alex Stationing, and we had recorded intelligence from a very dear friend of mine, a Green Beret legend and CIA legend by the name of Billy Waugh. Billy was the head of security for Black in Khartoum at the time when he was there. He's also the guy that saw and helped arrest, helped capture Carlos the Jackal, the renowned terrorist from the 70s in Europe, but he was the guy in charge of doing surveillance of bin Laden. And he had him, you know, he knew what he was going to have for lunch. He knew what car he drove. He was in the white. He was not concerned because, you know, in Khartoum at the time, it was like a terrorist hotel and he was putting, pouring all kinds of money. So we came up with several plans to kidnap him, to kill him, whatever it took. And the then administration kept saying, well, we don't have enough proof. And our argument was we got overhead from satellites of the kind of training that he's facilitating with former jihadists in these other countries. We're getting all source information from all kinds of different governments that he's extorting money from the Saudis. He's doing this. He's doing that. He's bringing people in from Afghanistan when, you know, the motto of CTC is supposed to This is what we do. And the administration never, ever bought off on that. And what I always tell people is that imagine in 1997 or late 96, early 97, if we would have been able to neutralize bin Laden, the coal, the bombings of our two embassies and maybe even 9-11 could have been derailed. You know, and I'll give away a little bit of your book here, Chapter 28, where you talk about that. You know, I mean, you just lay it out and I love it. You know, the answer is clear, thanks to the history and hindsight. Those 4,000 people killed in one of the U.S. Embassy attacks in Africa will still be alive today. Untraumatized, unscarred by their terrible luck, USS Cole would never have been attacked. The Pentagon would have never been hit by the American Airlines flight. The Twin Towers would still be standing. The 3,000 people who died in the World Trade Center still be with us. Families wouldn't be unaffected. I mean, it just goes on and on. It's amazing how much destruction, terrorism, chaos, anarchy he caused, and the point from all of this is that our administration at the time didn't have the cojones to take care of business. That is the bottom line. I mean, you do a very good job explaining that in the book. I really appreciated that. Thank you. I'd say it was definitely a fact. You know, at the time the agency was supporting us. They were carrying our water across the river, but we were definitely not getting the traction there. And a lot of people took that very personal, especially I was Chief of Officer of the Counter-Terrorist Center when 9-11 happened. So that really stuck in my craw. Well, I can't imagine. Well, and there's an interesting... Some of it, maybe it's a little bit lower, but when the original World Trade Center attacks happened, they tried to bomb them, the idiots, which thankfully they returned the van trying to... They tried to report it stolen. That's how we ended up getting the guys. But one of the things that came out of this, I think that helped them with their future planning is when they were in court, they bring in some of the structural engineers. You come to find out the World Trade Center, the twin towers were designed to withstand the impact of a 737. So then you start... So why are the 757s and 67s targeted? Why? Because unfortunately, you never know what kind of information is going to be used by somebody later. And that's... I don't know if that helped formulate some of his planning, but it's definitely some of the stuff that came out when you find out what they're designed to withstand. And then, like you say, you get... We see... I think part of our failing is we tend to think too short-term. Why would they think like that? That's not the point. You need to think like your adversary. Your adversary doesn't think like you. That's why they win. That's why they're able to pull off a lot of the stuff, because they're thinking differently than us. I want to get into 9-11 and what you see there. But up until that point, what do you think was the biggest impediment other than political? Was it the way that we had been trained that we didn't really understand Islamic law? We didn't understand what bin Laden... that he really meant the fatwa that he did? Were there some other things that contributed to this other than political? Political is the number one problem that you have. You cannot run operations, military or intelligence, through an optic of politics. It's two different worlds.
A highlight from 115: Part 2: Ric Prado Hunts Osama bin Laden and Leads the CIA Response after 9/11
"Our case is more like what the FBI did, you know, infiltrating the mafia or something like that. We have to maintain a clandestine and secure relationship, but also a very healthy relationship. We have a motto in the business that says you never fall in love with your agent, but you make them think that you're in love with them. You're always stops testing them, you're always double checking, you always put them under surveillance to make sure that they're doing what they say that we're doing, but it is very different because it's a very different goal. We don't work on problems, we work on intelligence. Well let's use that as a good springboard to start moving forward because a lot of your world starts changing, we start talking about the Cold War, you start talking about terrorism starts rearing its head, but at some point you became, worked with Michael Schur and Alex Station, the bin Laden unit. Tell us about that. Yeah, I had just come back from Korea, I had just gotten my GS -15, and I was the head of the Palestinian branch for CTC, our counter -terrorist center, and I got called into the front office by the chief of ops, and he said, look, you know, your name has been raised to be deputy chief of station for this virtual station targeting terrorism. I had never heard of virtual station, we were the first, and talking to my boss I said, well thank you boss, I mean of course I'll, you know, deputy chief of station, hell yeah, but who are we going after? And he said Osama bin Laden. And I said, who? And he goes, exactly. Mike Sawyer, Sawyer was the analyst that had been following this, so he was the chief of station for Alex Station, I was his deputy chief of station, and I was the senior ops officer, we only had two other case officers, the rest were analysts, incredible analysts and targeting officers. And by the way, that's the very same unit that eventually got bin Laden, you know, geo -located and allowed under our authorities for the SEAL team to go shoot him in the face. Excellent. Room temperature was a good result for that, but yeah, and the sad part is too, I did some work with the state department over in Islamabad training their police, their federal investigative agency, special investigative group, and while we were there at that time is about the time they figured bin Laden ended up in Abbottabad, and that's just about 30 clicks north, 30 or 40 clicks north of Islamabad, you know, right under literally everybody's noses. I just, I still have some heartburn over how much cooperation he got from the Pakistani government. Did you have concerns about that or am I just off in left field here? No, the Pakistani government is completely dual purpose. You have people that love us and people that love to kill us, meaning Americans. They're the ones that created the Taliban, for God's sake. The ISI. Their intelligence service literally was the ones that actually helped create the Taliban. So that penetration was always there. We did have, according to people that worked there, I never did, we did have some very good relationships liaison with some Pakistanis, but they were infiltrated from the other side too quite a bit. Yeah, we ended up kicking a couple people out of our training that had, once some tenuous connections came to light, it was like, yeah, I think it spells ISI is what you should have put down as your organization, but what I'm interested in, let's go back to that because that, you know, like you said, bin Laden who, not many people took him seriously. He issued his fatwa, you know, he said, here's what we're going to do. And then we started getting the bombings. We got some bombings of the embassies, right? That's correct. Well, you know, yeah, that is one of the things that set us all off because we had, when bin Laden was still in Khartoum, when we opened up the station, when we started Alex Stationing, and we had recorded intelligence from a very dear friend of mine, a Green Beret legend and CIA legend by the name of Billy Waugh. Billy was the head of security for Black in Khartoum at the time when he was there. He's also the guy that saw and helped arrest, helped capture Carlos the Jackal, the renowned terrorist from the 70s in Europe, but he was the guy in charge of doing surveillance of bin Laden. And he had him, you know, he knew what he was going to have for lunch. He knew what car he drove. He was in the white. He was not concerned because, you know, in Khartoum at the time, it was like a terrorist hotel and he was putting, pouring all kinds of money. So we came up with several plans to kidnap him, to kill him, whatever it took. And the then administration kept saying, well, we don't have enough proof. And our argument was we got overhead from satellites of the kind of training that he's facilitating with former jihadists in these other countries. We're getting all source information from all kinds of different governments that he's extorting money from the Saudis. He's doing this. He's doing that. He's bringing people in from Afghanistan when, you know, the motto of CTC is supposed to This is what we do. And the administration never, ever bought off on that. And what I always tell people is that imagine in 1997 or late 96, early 97, if we would have been able to neutralize bin Laden, the coal, the bombings of our two embassies and maybe even 9 -11 could have been derailed. You know, and I'll give away a little bit of your book here, Chapter 28, where you talk about that. You know, I mean, you just lay it out and I love it. You know, the answer is clear, thanks to the history and hindsight. Those 4 ,000 people killed in one of the U .S. Embassy attacks in Africa will still be alive today. Untraumatized, unscarred by their terrible luck, USS Cole would never have been attacked. The Pentagon would have never been hit by the American Airlines flight. The Twin Towers would still be standing. The 3 ,000 people who died in the World Trade Center still be with us. Families wouldn't be unaffected. I mean, it just goes on and on. It's amazing how much destruction, terrorism, chaos, anarchy he caused, and the point from all of this is that our administration at the time didn't have the cojones to take care of business. That is the bottom line. I mean, you do a very good job explaining that in the book. I really appreciated that. Thank you. I'd say it was definitely a fact. You know, at the time the agency was supporting us. They were carrying our water across the river, but we were definitely not getting the traction there. And a lot of people took that very personal, especially I was Chief of Officer of the Counter -Terrorist Center when 9 -11 happened. So that really stuck in my craw. Well, I can't imagine. Well, and there's an interesting... Some of it, maybe it's a little bit lower, but when the original World Trade Center attacks happened, they tried to bomb them, the idiots, which thankfully they returned the van trying to... They tried to report it stolen. That's how we ended up getting the guys. But one of the things that came out of this, I think that helped them with their future planning is when they were in court, they bring in some of the structural engineers. You come to find out the World Trade Center, the twin towers were designed to withstand the impact of a 737. So then you start... So why are the 757s and 67s targeted? Why? Because unfortunately, you never know what kind of information is going to be used by somebody later. And that's... I don't know if that helped formulate some of his planning, but it's definitely some of the stuff that came out when you find out what they're designed to withstand. And then, like you say, you get... We see... I think part of our failing is we tend to think too short -term. Why would they think like that? That's not the point. You need to think like your adversary. Your adversary doesn't think like you. That's why they win. That's why they're able to pull off a lot of the stuff, because they're thinking differently than us. I want to get into 9 -11 and what you see there. But up until that point, what do you think was the biggest impediment other than political? Was it the way that we had been trained that we didn't really understand Islamic law? We didn't understand what bin Laden... that he really meant the fatwa that he did? Were there some other things that contributed to this other than political? Political is the number one problem that you have. You cannot run operations, military or intelligence, through an optic of politics. It's two different worlds.
"osama" Discussed on Game of Crimes
"And the agent is the person that you recruit and that you run and you debrief and that you manage. So, big difference. Now, and by the way, this is a great way to catch people because people will go, yes, I was a CIA agent. Anybody that tells you that, the BS flag has to fly right on the spot. Dude, I live in Northern- Snitches are not allowed. Snitches in the back. I live in Northern Virginia still, Rick. And I can't tell you how many times you're sitting in a coffee shop or whatever. I can't tell you what I did. It's classified or, oh yeah, I just said that. And yeah, I was an agent. And then like, you just want to bang your head against a wall and go, okay. Yeah, right. You know, you're talking about- They usually want to bang their heads against the wall because that to me is stolen valor. You know, we got 140 stars on our wall of people that gave their lives for this country and had that as their handle was operations officer. So for some, you know, pencil neck, taking the stolen battle for me, I take that very, very seriously. Yeah, one thing too, I noticed having worked with some of your folks in South America and actually over in Afghanistan as well, is, you know, you're talking about your informants and the way you guys recruit are completely different than the way law enforcement does. It's, you know, I'm not saying it's better or worse. It's just for a different purpose. You know, typically if we get a long-term informant, it's almost like you guys befriend these people, which, you know, for us is a big no-no. So, but when I was in Afghanistan, we went over and that really opened my eyes in Kabul. We were meeting with your folks there in the building and outside the embassy there and just, it was a real eye-opener. I'll just have to say, when we were in Colombia, it was very different, but over there, it was something that I had not seen before. Yeah, you know, and I've worked a lot with police post agency. I have a very fond appreciation for police officers. My first martial arts instructors were all, were both former Marines and they were both police officers. And it is very different. Part of it is the goal. Our goal in recruiting somebody isn't just to disrupt an operation. Yeah, we do that. But what the real deal is, keeping that person in there, sacrosanct, that they could survive any operations that we counter for the longer run. So we have to develop a very different, you guys will bust somebody, you have them by the short hairs because, you know, they're gonna cop a deal. They are usually, you know, fire and forget. You know, you use them for this one case, they testify and then that's it, you know, you reuse them again. Very, our case is more like what the FBI did, you know, infiltrating the mafia or something like that. We have to maintain a clandestine and secure relationship, but also a very healthy relationship. We have a motto in the business that says, you never fall in love with your agent, but you make them think that you're in love with them. You're always ops testing them, you're always double checking, you always put them under surveillance to make sure that they're doing what they say that we're doing. But it is very different because it's a very different goal. We don't work on problems, we work on intelligence. Hey players, that is the end of part one. Part two comes out as always on Tuesday. In the meantime, go check us out at Game of Crimes on Twitter, at Game of Crimes podcast on Facebook and the Instagram. Also go check out our website, gameofcrimespodcast.com. We've got a lot more information there, including our book lists. Any book written by our guests will be listed there. In the meantime, go check us out also, patreon.com slash game of crimes. It's where we put a lot more content you won't hear on our regular podcast. We go into a lot more topics and folks, it is a lot of fun. So go check us out, patreon.com slash game of crimes. In the meantime, everybody stay safe. We'll see you tomorrow for part two. Come on guys, come on.
"osama" Discussed on Game of Crimes
"Fast-forward, we were going to Havana, and I'm driving in. My dad's hanging from telephone poles with signs across their neck that says, contra-revolutionaries. That was how quick the political oppression was in Cuba. And those are the things, like people jumping off the building in 9-11, that are tattooed in my brain. Well, horrible, horrible. Yeah, but you just bring up the point, too. It sounds like Mao, it sounds like Xi Jinping now, Communist China. You want to control society, one of the first things you control is the children. You put them in uniforms, you get them reporting on their parents, you start indoctrinating them into the political ways, and then pretty soon you've got a society that looks like what we have now in Communist China. Yes, I mean, that's textbook communism 101. We saw the same thing in Vietnam. We would definitely see it in the Russia models. Venezuela did something very similar. To me, the biggest quandary is, why do people fall for communism when there isn't a single example of a country that went from democracy to communism that has actually flourished? And Cuba, at the time that Castro took over, had one of the highest per capita income in Latin America in education. Venezuela was one of the richest countries in Latin America, and both are in shambles. You know, it's very similar to what we go through here in the United States when elections are coming around. Our politicians get up, they promise you the world, they promise you everything's going to be better, it's going to be, you know, you're going to be wealthier, your taxes are going to get lowered, everything's going to be Shangri-La, not your Shangri-La, but Shangri-La, and we'll talk about that later, but then they get in power, and it's all about them. You know, you never get what they promise you, whether it's a democratic society or a communist society, but you're exactly right. Why would anybody want socialism and communism? I don't understand that. Yeah, what was it Margaret Thatcher said, the only problem with socialism is pretty soon you start running out of other people's money? O.P.M., other people's money. We've seen that happen. Well, so Rick, now take us, now kind of walk us through, so you're down in Miami. How does a Rick Prado and Enrique Prado go from being an immigrant from Cuba, an orphan reunited with his parents? How do you go from that? What's your path now to getting, what's your first taste of saying, I want to do something for this country, this, you know, my new country. When does that start entering your head? Well, you know, when my parents got on their feet in a couple of years, we moved to Hialeah, I always had good grades in school, but I was always fighting in school. That was something, we were, you know, group of guys, we've gotten into the martial arts and lifting weights, and when everybody else was smoking pot, we'd be getting in fights. Those were my stupid, stupid, stupid years. And, but again, my grades were always decent. I just had, you know, Ds for conduct. And I started junior college in Miami Dade, and I had no friends there. First thing, couple of weeks into the semester, the hippies announced that the following day they were gonna take down the American flag and burn it. Well, I didn't have any friends at the place, so I called some of my high school homies that gladly showed up. It was, I think it was four or five of us, and it was about 20 hippies. And needless to say, it was not a fair fight for them. But that was the tipping point. That was the tipping point because at the end of that, and that's seeing that American flag still flying over us and knowing what all, these were all Cuban kids, by the way, all the, we had gone through, it was the first time in my life that I had been proud of doing violence. And six months later, I joined Air Force Pararescue, which is, you know, it's one of our special operations forces for the military. I love it, I love it. Stand up for the flag. Well, and I love the Pararescue. We'll talk about that story, or we'll talk about the story too, because some of those guys, people joke about the, you know, the Air Force and how they have the great chow halls and they stay in hotels. But when you see some of these guys and what they did, especially during the second Gulf War and what they, I think one of the Pararescue guys was one of the only double recipients of the Medal of Honor. Wasn't it that one guy who was holding off basically ISIS and a bunch of guys, and the SEALs couldn't even land because of all the incoming fire? Am I thinking of the right guy? Yeah, it was definitely an Air Force Special Operations Command. I don't remember if it was a PJ or if he was a combat controller, but there were sister units that we often deployed together, yeah. And you remember, Morgan, when we had Derek Motz on here, episode 71, his brother Michael Motz was a Pararescue guy who was killed in Afghanistan. So true fricking hero. Yeah, bad-ass people. Well, so you get this taste, and look, it's funny you should say that. What's that old saying? It said, people sleep peacefully in their beds at night because rough men and now women stand ready to do violence on their behalf. There is a place for violence directed. How did that incident now, what did you do during community college? This is kind of this formative thing for you now. So how does that lead you into CIA? You're in the Air Force. Did you get a taste of CIA while you were in the Air Force? Did you run into some guys? No, no. I was an avid reader since middle school, and I read every James Bond novel, and I loved OSS stories. I still always looking for an old book or a new book on those topics. So I didn't know anybody in the military. I didn't know the difference between an Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marines. Nobody in my family had ever served. I had never met anybody in service until I got recruited by Pararescue. So for me, it was just, I went from being a Pararescueman, when I got my beret was in late 73, I'm sorry, late 72, and Vietnam was over. And my reason for joining Pararescue was to go fight for my country. So for the next year and a half, I was doing real sexy jumping out of airplanes, a halo cast, repelling upside down. And that was all fun, and I loved every bit of it. I still do, but there was no purpose. I was not making a difference. So I applied for the agency in 1974. And if you say you were a history guy, you know that post-Vietnam, the agency and the military were decimated. And they really cut it down to almost nothing. Yeah, well, real quick, Rick, you say you applied. Did you approach them? Did they approach you based on your skills? Because a lot of your skills obviously translate into some of your first assignments. So how did this connection, how did you get involved in this thing of ours? I literally wrote a letter to the agency saying, and basically, I'm free and single, I'm a PJ, I speak Spanish, I hate communism, put me in, coach, kind of stuff. And they came back with a real nice note, signed by whoever should have kept it. But they said, thank you, but basically they said, we're firing, not hiring. So I went into rescue. I wrote rescue for Miami Metro Fire Department for six years. And towards the end of my pararescue reserves, I went to the 20th Special Forces Reserves out of Fort Lauderdale. And I think it was in 1980, early 1980, that I reapplied to the agency. A little bit more polished note this time, but it pretty basically said the same thing. This is who I am, this is what I bring to the table. And this time they reached out to me and brought me on on contract. Their comment was, we need medics with your paramilitary background to support our training and support some of our missions, but it's only contract work. We'll have you up here for a week, for two weeks. Can you take the time off? So that was my introduction to the agency late at 1980, where I would take some leave from the fire department. I would go over there and work for three weeks or whatever I was allowed and come back. I got tired of that. I was losing ground with my rescue credentials and I didn't want to do that. So I actually quit that. And then Reagan take over and Reagan declares war on communism in the United States. And the first thing that he says to the CIA is, Bill Casey, who was the best DCI we ever had, Mr. Casey, what I want you to do is, dethrone the San D'Aista regime, get a program going. That's the Contra program that was born. And sadly, I just found out yesterday that Russ L., I won't mention his last name because I don't know if he passed undercover, but was the guy that called me on the phone that remembered me from my contract days to hire me on. I just found out two days ago that he just passed away. But I think a week later, I was already at headquarters. I went from there to Nicaragua, Costa Honduras border and no training whatsoever from the agency. All I had was my Spanish, my paramilitary skills. And those street skills in Miami came in really handy when it came to dealing with people. I was going to say dodging bullets and staying out of the way, that came in handy. No, I was talking more about your posture, how to deal with rough people and not necessarily punching them in the nose, but how to sit across the table from somebody and not look like food. And when you're dealing with these kind of dangerous people, you have to have that posture. You guys know that from your own backgrounds. Hey, Rick, real quick, but why CIA? Why didn't you go FBI or DEA? We talked earlier, you knew some guys from DEA. What was it about CIA that says, where you zoned in on it and said, this is what I wanted to do? Like I said, I read a lot of James Bond novels and that kind of stuff. So the CIA was always there, but it's funny. I'm trying to remember his senior moment. There was a DEA guy that used to come to a clothing store that I was working in Miami Springs. And I'll think of the guy's name. He went to Pakistan. He always talked to me about, when you graduate from high school, you should try out for DEA. They were cool. He would show up in this Porsche that was confiscated, well, some shit. So he went to Pakistan for a year, came back. And you probably remember the story because he, on his first day back to work in Miami, when he reported, that's when the DEA building collapsed and he was one of the few casualties. And so if it hadn't been for that, I probably would have been in DEA because he had it all lined up for when I graduated from high school, give me the applications and support my application. Wow. He was killed in that collapse? Yes, sir, he was. Wow. That's what I know. I know Murph's checking it up right now. I mean, because that stuff's fascinating, not from a morbid standpoint, but simply because we don't know how our lives are gonna intersect, how they're gonna change, what changes our path. But, you know, like you, I'm a huge fan of reading. I'm supposed to be going to London in November, if things work out. I belong to the Association of Former Intelligence Officers. They used to have, AFIO used to have a reciprocal membership with the Special Forces Club in London. That's not an AFIO member. Yeah, they don't anymore. I called the Czech city, I'm gonna be going to London. They still have that said now, the Special Forces Club. Apparently it got too busy and they said, you Americans, we don't have room for you anymore. So, you know, maybe I've talked to you, maybe you can hook me up with somebody when I'm over there. In the old days, I probably could, yes. So let's go from there. So when you're down there, south of the border, as they say, way south there, you have no training. Are you a CIA, are you a contractor now, or are you, quote, working for the agency full-time? I was working for the agency. I was not trained as a case officer yet, but I was what they call now a PMO, paramilitary officer, so. Wow, how long did you, you said you were down, how long, well, you might've said, how long were you down there and doing that? I was, I slept in a jungle hammock Monday through Friday for three years and loved everybody. And the first 14 months of that program, because it was a black ops, like that's one of the reasons for my book, because it was a black ops, it meant that the U.S. hand had to remain hidden. So I was pulling it off, I was there as a Honduran major, and I was the only guy allowed to go to the camps for the first 14 months. So all the training that went on for these guys from headspace and timing of 50 cal to shooting the mortars or RPG-7s and these kinds of things, I was the only guy that could teach them. I would hit two camps a week, two days each, and I did that for over a year. And then I got a couple of guys that came down, former SF guys that helped with, yeah, no training whatsoever rather than what was in-house. Did you ever get to a point where your cover might have been blown or was close to being blown or did, was that not really that big of an issue while you were down there? It eventually did. Obviously, the Sandinistas had their penetrations of the camps because that's easy to do, get a couple of rebel that are not really rebels to volunteer to be in there, and they know everything that's going on. So the first thing that came up was an intercept that described me to a T as the person that was working with the Hondurans to the camps. It didn't say CIA. They did not throw out the three letters, but there was one that thought that I was Puerto Rican, one of the intercepts. I don't know, so this guy sounds like a Puerto Rican. So that was, and they did target us. As a matter of fact, I don't know that I was the main target because Stedman Faggot, which was the head of the mosquitoes, was there at the time of the ambush. Him and I were staying in Puerto Lempira. We'd been there for about a week. There's only two restaurants, if you want to call them that, in Puerto Lempira, and we would go to the better of the two, which was right on the water. And late that morning, I got called back on an emergency thing back to Tegucigalpa, and that night, Stedman got ambushed. My interpreter got ambushed. He got nicked, and there was a priest with him that was killed, was assassinated. And they themselves told me, says, you're lucky, because you would have been here with us. But we don't know if they were going after the trifecta of getting both the priest, Stedman Faggot, and, you know, that strange guy that's doing all the stuff in the camps. Rick, do either of these names sound familiar, Nick Fregos or Chuck Mann, Charles Mann? Chuck Frego, I've heard the name, but I don't shop people that I've worked with, per se, that I can recall. Those two agents were killed in the building collapse in Miami. Okay, no, this was, I'll think of the name, I'm sorry. I'm looking at his face, actually, because I actually looked it up, and he had just come back from Pakistan. And as a matter of fact, the way I found out about it was two of his buddies came to the store to tell me, because he had talked to them about me going into the DEA. So let's take you from there, then. Now, obviously, this is the time when what later became known as the Iran-Contra affair, or Ollie North and arms. Is that part of what you were supporting at that time? Was that program coming down there, the support of arms and ammunition to the rebels? Well, the first part of it, no. During the Honduran phase of it, I left in early 84. Then we still had the congressional support to help the Contras. Subsequently, in 86, I was sent back down. I went back to spy school and got sent to Costa Rica to run the southern front of the Contra program from a very hostile, very different to Honduras. In Honduras, Nicaragua border, we had complete support from the Hondurans. We paid for their helicopters, whatever, but they were always there for us, providing us cover and support. In Costa Rica, the Costa Ricans were actually trying to arrest the Contras because they were afraid of pissing off the Sandinistas. So during that time is when the funding stopped, unbeknownst to me. Remember, I was a GS-12 when I was in Costa Rica, got my 13 at the end. I knew that I was helping the Contras there. I knew that I was coordinating these flights. I was writing all this up. As a matter of fact, when Ali North and Joe Fernandez, who was my boss at the time, both got indicted and all that other stuff, they loved my testimony because I could sit there going, I was a paramilitary officer in that program, and I used to get a cable saying that there's a airdrop at this time, and I would write in agency channels what they had received on that airdrop. So yeah, like everything else, political messes things up, even in our profession. Let's rewind for a second because you just skipped right past it. You said you went to spy school, so let's talk. Are we talking about... And then I went to spy school and then I took over the world. Let's go back to spy school. We're talking about the farm, right? Camp Perry? Yeah, the best kept secret in the United States is when you see Ali... Of course, it's on Google Maps. You can just drive right past the entrance, right? Well, let's talk about that. So when you go through that now, the whole purpose is to train you as an ops officer, right? A case officer. So how does that decision get made to take you out of the paramilitary stuff and turn you into a case officer? Was that your decision or was that their decision? No, I didn't know enough to be making those decisions, but I was always blessed with great bosses. My first boss in Honduras was Colonel Ray, just an incredible hero, and he was my first mentor, but also Dewey Clarage, who was at the time Bill Casey's pit bull. He liked me because I was his man in the camps. I was the only guy in the camps at the time. So when my time, after three years in Honduras, I was ready to go, and again, the threats and everything else, they figured it was time for me to go. So they made some phone calls and they make sure that when I got back, that I would be able to go to the farm. I stayed in ground branch, special activities division, ground branch, but what was happening at the time, guys, was a lot of the paramilitary officers were not case officers, and they were literally looked down as second class individuals. Well, they wanted to change that, so they made it mandatory that everybody who wanted to have a career as a PMO had to be a case officer and have at least one tour as a case officer. Obviously, with terrorism, that changed, because we were the flavor of the day, but that's how I got through the farm, which, you know, and the big thing with the farm is that here I come in, I'm a blunt object. You know, I'm a paramilitary guy that jumps upside down and does all this ninja stuff, but now I gotta get on coat and tie, and I have to learn people skills, and I have to learn dead drops and covert communications and covert, it was fantastic, it was fantastic work, but long days, very realistic. You're living in a foreign country during all this training. When you're out of the classroom, you're actually operating for real, and you have people surveilling you, people filming you, getting stopped, all that kind of stuff, and people that you have to recruit, so it's quite intensive, but it's quite a change from, it's polishing a blunt object into something multi-tooled, you know? Yeah, learn to stick your pinky out when you're drinking a fancy drink, was that part of it? You probably had to go through some State Department stuff also. We used to call that knife and fork school to go overseas. Yeah, I was obviously, I ended up with State Department cover, so yeah, as a matter of fact, I have my accreditation papers signed by Ronald Reagan in my office at the house. Very cool. So are you at liberty to say what your diplomatic cover was at that time? It was State Department. You know, you start out as a third secretary for underwater basket weaving or whatever. The Costa Rica, it was very slim, but it was something close to that kind of cover. It was a mediocre cover. But subsequently, I was a political officer or this, that, or the other when I wasn't on DOD cover. I was on DOD cover when I traveled TDY for missions, but when I was posted overseas, we had to do it through state. When you were down there, who were most of your biggest threats? I mean, a lot of people tend to think of Russia, you know, China, but China, or I mean, Cuba had a very robust intelligence service. When you think of Ana Montes and how they ran her, I think it was for 17 years, I think it's called, was it DGS? Is that what it was called in Cuba? Who were your biggest threats that you worried about when you were operating undercover? Who was the biggest threat to your cover or to you personally, as you're trying to get your missions done? Well, terrorism, it was just starting to creep in, but terrorism at the time in the 80s was a regional problem. You had local, you know, like the, you know, the Colombian cartels, but sponsored individuals. You had the Panamanians, you had this, that, or the other. In Costa Rica, my main concern were the Sandinistas, because they were actively, you know, looking for these guys, and as a matter of fact, some were assassinated. You know, some of the countries were killed. And of course, the local service for the Costa Ricans, which were trying to keep us from working there so they could not, you know, maintain their civil status, with the Sandinistas. Later on, when I went to the one country that they don't allow me to talk about in South America with a Maoist insurgency and a leader that they referred to as the professor, most people get it right, there I was, the challenge was terrorism. The counterintelligence wasn't, you know, very robust, so the local service did give, you know, they didn't care what we were doing. They were friendly towards the Americans at that time, but terrorism, the local terrorism, where there were two very strong factions there, and that was the main threat. And I actually recruited, and it's in the book, I actually recruited a terrorist from the most violent of the two organizations there, and I ran that guy for a year. Needless to say, I took very good care of, you know, making sure I had my surveillance detection discipline, going to these meetings was big for my own sake, but coming home, I did twice as much because I could not afford that to come to my front door. So definitely, definitely terrorism there, and subsequently in the Philippines, those were our biggest threats. Yeah, Abu Sayyaf in the Philippines, was that big when you were there? Abu Sayyaf was just rearing his head down in Mindanao. They were active, they were there, but not what they became afterwards. The MPA, New People's Army, was the big deal there. I got there about eight months after they killed Nick Rowe, the legendary Green Beret colonel, was assassinated. He was in an armored vehicle, but a round got through, hit him in the back of the head, just the golden BB concept. They had also killed, the MPA had this group called the Sparrows, that they were professional assassins, and they had killed several airmen at Clark Air Force Base and other places, plus political figures. And as a matter of fact, one of the stories that always comes up from the book is the fact that they targeted us in Davao, and we almost got our clocks cleaned, by the way. That was, if you read that, if our listeners read Rick's book here, that's an exciting response to the way things happened. Well, and actually, we were negligent, Rick, let us tell you, folks got it, and this will be posted on our site. You can also find it on his site, Rick Prado, R-I-C-P-R-A-D-O.com, it's called Black Ops, The Life of a CIA Shadow Warrior, CIA Counterterrorism Chief of Operations Retired. Hey, let's rewind for a second, because again, it's one of those things, and then I recruited a terrorist from one of the most violent organizations. How does one go about recruiting, and then what's your pitch? I mean, what is it that you identified that allowed you to know that you could pitch this guy and get him to work for Team America? Well, it's funny, because again, this is where I think my street smarts were stronger than my official tradecraft procedures. Normally, we bump somebody at a particular place, somebody that we know that has access to information that we want, befriend them, start picking their brains on how they think. We, the Americans, we try to recruit for strengths, whereas the communist blocs, they will recruit even more so for weaknesses, people that have drug problems, alcohol problems, and so on, financial problems. So you develop that rapport built on a mutual ideology, and then you turn it into a recruitment. Well, this guy was a terrorist. He was actually a mule. He was not an actual operator. He was a mule. He was assigned for carrying the explosives to a particular site so the dumb ones could come in and go blow stuff up, because sometimes they blew themselves up or their tradecraft, they were so obvious that that's what this guy was. Well, he was part of a cell, and he had one flaw. He smoked pot, and for this particular Maoist group, that was a no-no. You could not do drugs. So working with some local counter-terrorist officials, we busted the cell, and all these guys were getting interrogated, except the one that we knew that was a pot smoker. We pulled them aside, and this friend of ours introduced me as, I was there as a Costa Rican businessman, security guy, and my pitch to him was, I said, look, you're hearing what's going on in the other room with your guys, right? I said, here's my deal. I don't care about communism. I don't care about this country. I'm a businessman. I provide security information for big companies here. If you could provide me with actionable intelligence on terrorist acts that are going to be committed, you're going to get this amount of money a month, and you'll be freed from this. You will not be compromised. And I did say to him, I said, but you lied on me once, and you'll be in that room getting interrogated also. So he was smart enough to walk in the ass. He wasn't a diehard, you know, Maoist. He was more of a college kid that found this romantically cool to be doing this kind of crap. And he actually provided some incredible stuff. We learned a lot, a lot. I debriefed this guy for hours about infrastructure, who was who, but most importantly, he actually gave me threat information. There was one time when the way that it worked is he would give the explosives, and he had to deliver it to a particular place hours before it was going to happen, you know, six hours before. And handed over to the group that was actually going to do. So he would carry that in a covert way and pass it over. So we knew that the explosion was going to be within a couple of mile kind of concentric circles there. And when he reported, the circle was awful close to the Marine house for the U.S. Embassy. So needless to say, all our antennas went up, and sure as hell, they blew up something, but it wasn't the U.S. Marine house. It was the Chinese consulate or something like that. And I- Well, I call that a win-win, right? Yeah, but what was funny was, you know, you all have had to deal with hindquarters, and hindquarters always has that, you know, I know everything kind of attitude, right? So I write this thing, hey, this guy just reported this, this thing is about to blow up, blah, blah, blah. I send it in, NIAC. And of course the thing blows up, it's in the paper. Next morning, I send it in and they say, well, why would this particular organization attack the Chinese? And I said, because they're Maoist and the Chinese are not Maoist. These people are diehard Maoists. And they see the current Chinese government as an aberration of Maoists. So I had a lot of fun, you know, digging that little needle into headquarters. I love that, hindquarters, I've never heard that before. I like that. And you used a term which will be unfamiliar to those who don't read a lot of the novels or know this stuff, but you called NIAC for like night action. I think it's N-I-A-C-T. When you put a designation like that on a cable, what does that trigger? What does that mean? It is like immediate. It means that you have to bring somebody in from their home and bring them in the office to read the cable and respond to it. Needs immediate action and it works. Now, later on in life, when I was the chief of operations of the counter-terror center, I had a Stu-3 in my home and the key was in a safe and it saved me some trips because they could read me a cable over the secure line and I could dictate a cable back on. There was times where I still had to go in, but yeah, it means I'll drop everything you're doing. This is the number one thing you've got to focus on. It's not taken lightly. For our listeners there, you just already make reference to a Stu-3 phone. That's an encrypted telephone that protects conversations. Yeah, you put the key in, it encrypts it, you pull it out, it decrypts. Now, here's the funny part. In some places, you could leave your key, if you left your key lying on your desk, you get one of those yellow notices. The security officer would walk around. Pink notices, that's what we got in Bogota. The Marines would come around, you'd come to work and find a pink notice on your desk and three of those, you're out of the country. We'll talk about that a little bit later, but yeah, but the whole thing about night action and doing that is, did you find out because of your understanding that they were getting the explosives and that you started doing some things maybe that were obvious, that you were defending the Marine base, did that push them towards the Chinese or was the Chinese the original target to begin with? Well, the Chinese was the original target. They had no way of using that. I used to meet this guy, usually with one of the official guys that I work with because I was carrying a weapon, obviously, but they're legally allowed to shoot people kind of thing. But this particular call was an unscheduled meeting. The biggest technological advancement for us at the time was the beeper. The beeper was the greatest thing for us because we could hide in what looked like telephone numbers pre-designed instruction. So, the first three numbers means I need to meet you now, the second is where, and something along those lines. And I got a beeper call from the asset. And I literally had to go meet this guy by myself because my counterparts that I was working with is very covertly, we're out of town. So, I had to go literally body armor, two radios, two guns to meet this guy in a very nasty neighborhood in this particular town. But what he gave me was gold. And even the locals didn't know about it before time, before it happened. So, no, the target was always the Chinese from the very beginning. Hey, and the other thing too, this is a good point to talk about terminology because we've been bringing that up. So, I had the pleasure and the, in a sense, the misfortune because I'm speaking at a conference and I thought I did a pretty good job, got polite claps like you were talking about with Julie Redkay Murph, you do it and then the next person gets the standing O. Who follows me is Jim Olson. Jim Olson is like a legend in CIA. He got the intelligence star, I think, for an operation in Moscow, was chief of station at Vienna, the Clayton Lone Tree thing. He comes up and he speaks after me and it's like, oh my God, I feel so small after he speaks and what he talks about. But Jim went on to become a professor at Texas A &M, teaches down there their intelligence studies and everything. He had a standing rule in his class. If you don't understand the difference, if you misidentify an officer as an agent, that's a flunkable offense. And so, Rick, this is a good time because it just pisses me off. I see people write this to people. CIA agent does this. I said, you do not understand. So, would you give us just a quick primer on terminology and what really means what? Absolutely. We're probably the only federal service with security slash intelligence slash whatever authorities that we do not use the term agent. FBI agents, DEA agents, that's a proper name. But for us, in the agencies parlance, an agent is the person that you recruit. We are operations officers or case officers. We like the operational officers because it gives you the OO designation. That's an inside joke on the 007 stuff. So, I'm an OO.
"osama" Discussed on Game of Crimes
"Guys, this is a special episode for a couple reasons. Number one, we'll give you a bigger intro. In the intro outro, you'll see that we just did this, but this episode was specifically designed to come out on 9-11 because the man we're about to talk to had such a huge role in fighting what happened during 9-11, some of his work. And I just thought it would be great. So hey, let's just get the magic started. So Enrique, Rick, Pareto, bienvenidos, amigo. Muchas gracias, it's my pleasure to be here, guys. Wait till it's over. And we owe one of our good friends our Irish friend up in Wisconsin a big thank you, Patrick O'Donnell, for making the introduction for us. So slant you, Rick. Thank you. I've allowed Patrick to rename himself back to O'Donnell. I said his name was Patrick O'Connell, and I said, you're just going to have to go with it because once it's out there, but we allowed him to go back. Well, hey, Rick, first of all, welcome. It's a high honor because we were talking just before we started some mutual friends, mutual acquaintances, and you knew a lot of guys that Murph did, but to get into that, we got to start though because there's going to be a connection between you and two of our other guests because your story starts not just when you joined the agency, your story starts back as a Ute in Cuba. Again, Cuba during the Castro regime. It's according to your book and according to everything that's written. You got into your first firefight at age seven. Dude, that's some gangster shit. Yeah, I was in Cuba during the revolution. I was about seven or eight years old when they started attacking the town that I lived in and right in front of my window, my parents were out. I had a 14-year-old nanny taking care of me and this firefight ensued. I went to the front window and opened up the window and literally saw the firefight going on. What I did not see was that on the parrot below the window, there was a guerrilla fighter with an automatic weapon and all of a sudden, he pops up and lets off a big blast of automatic fire and it was my first time with auditory exclusion and tunnel vision and watching that go down. But one of the things that I, touching back on that childhood part, I think that God puts a path in front of us and if we have the courage to take it, He also kind of grooms you and I think that all the things that I saw early on in my life and subsequently including pararescue and everything else subsequent was part of the molding that ended up being what I am today. When did it become apparent that you were gonna be leaving Cuba? Was that kind of like the straw that broke the camel's pack, proverbially speaking or were there other events that your parents finally said, look, we gotta get out of here? Well, my parents, my father fell out of love with Castro very quickly because he started seeing what was going on and then we were actually affected by it because he started confiscated private property. My dad had a small coffee roasting company and that got taken away maybe six months after Castro took over. So that was the first left hook and that's what my dad said, we're gonna try to leave the country. Bay of Pigs happened exactly a year before I left almost to the day and that was the tipping point when the political fiasco because a lot of people blame CIA for how that went wrong and it wasn't, it was the administration. But that was the tipping point for my dad and he could not get out with my mom and myself at the same time. So they got me out through a Catholic program called Peter Pan and I ended up in an orphanage in Pueblo, Colorado at the age of 10. And unbelievable. I just, I can't imagine how traumatic that was on a 10-year-old and your parents as well having to let you go like that. You know, it's funny you mention that because a lot of people say, gee, poor little kid. Listen, that was the best thing that happened to Rick Prado. I'm an American, you know, but the people that really paid the price were my parents. My mom was never the same after this because imagine, I'm an only child. So you're putting your 10-year-old only child on an airplane to go to an orphanage not knowing if you're gonna be able to get out of the damn island. That takes courage and that is first love of a parent for their kids with the sacrifices that they're willing to make and that innate part that people have in their hearts about freedom. Freedom is an innate thing that we all want to enjoy. He didn't want that for his son. Well, that's what I love about Cuban Americans who endured that. I'm sorry that that happened because Castro is such a jackass, including his brother and his followers on. But I give you a perfect example, Pitbull, the singer, the rapper. Holy cow, here's a guy who came from Cuba and is living in the United States. He's a hugely successful, multi-multi-millionaire rapper, artist and he will get up on a stadium. I've seen videos of him up on stage telling you, you don't like his country? Get the fuck out. You gotta respect that. I mean, he knows and you know how bad it was down there, especially your family situation and it makes you appreciate what you have. And it just, man, I hate to get on my soap books this early in an interview, but I agree 100%. If you don't like our country, get the hell out and go. You will quickly find out as bad as we are, we're still better than anything else that's out there. And if you start rapping, Murph, I'm going to edit that complete part out because he was rapping some Pitbull earlier. He was throwing, gang. I'm going to mute here for a minute while I cool down, okay? Hey, would that make sense what I saw in your LinkedIn profile, Rick, too, because it said Peter Pan, I think, survivor. And I was trying to figure out what that meant. And now that makes sense. I know exactly where Pueblo is. My parents were all Western slope, grew up there at Gunnison, Grand Junction, Montrose. When I was a trooper of Southwest Kansas, Pueblo was not that far from us, you know? So that area, so I mean, what a heck of a story. So when you came over, how long before or did your parents make it over? Yeah, it took about eight months. They settled in Miami in a very shady part of Miami because that's all they could afford. My father wasn't allowed to take a single dollar out of the country. So he actually owed $200 when he got into the States that a cousin had lent him. It took about a month to get me down from the orphanage, but we were definitely sub-poverty. I mean, my dad was mowing lawns and loading trucks, just trying to put bread on the table. So let me throw a couple of names out at you, a couple of our previous guests. Does the name Luis Navia ring a bell with you at all? I have heard the name, but I have never had the honor of meeting him. Yeah, he was a, how would we say this, Murph? He was an entrepreneur, too. His parents fled Cuba, but he ended up getting popped coming out of, what was it, Peru, with 26 tons of cocaine by one of your- Venezuela. Venezuela. Venezuela. But he'd worked across all the cartels, but the other one, though, Jack Garcia with FBI is down in Miami, and he worked against the mob and everything, and his same story, same exact story. It's like, here we are. Castro comes into power, and they start taking everything away from us. Yeah, you know, a lot of people focused on the firefight that I saw, the violence that I saw, but what really was the clincher for me, and I think that that was the first big hammer on my metal, was how quickly Castro's control came over. Within a matter of months, I was wearing a uniform to school. At the age of eight, I'm having to go to a peasant's house to teach him how to read and write. How does an eight-year-old teach anybody how to read and write? It was all political control. And I remember the teachers in the classroom telling me, telling us, if you hear your parents say anything bad about Castro or the revolution, it is your duty to report them.
"osama" Discussed on Game of Crimes
"Ola, ola, ola, amigos, amigos, players, playwrights, dudettes, everybody in between, welcome. This is a special edition of Game of Crimes. We're going to dispense with a couple of things that we normally do, small town police water, things like that, because number one, it's the 22nd anniversary of 9-11, never forget. And this episode and the following episode that you'll find, too, that we'll be talking about the issues of terrorism. So nothing funny about terrorism, nothing funny about all these people dying. But our next guest, we'll talk about him in a minute, but we just kind of want to set that stage real quickly, though. Thank you guys for joining us. Morgan here, joined by my partner in crime. Hey, it's Murph, everybody. Yeah, hey, guys, head on over to Apple, Spotify, hit those five stars, really means a lot. And after this episode, I think you'll realize why hearing stories like this are so important. So head on over there, head on over to our website, GameOfCrimesPodcast.com. The link to our next guest book, what we'll be talking about, you're going to find that there are all sorts of good stuff there. Follow us on that thing they call social media at Game of Crimes on Twitter, at Game of Crimes Podcast on Facebook and the Instagram. But look, join us over on Patreon, Patreon.com slash Game of Crimes. We just got through recording. You can't make this shit up. Had some fun there. We did our Q &A, which is one of the funnest things we do. I think it's the most fun we have because it's driven by you, our players, right? It's a blast. It's a blast. And we've got good stuff. We got some good comments on our previous episode, 911, what's your emergency? Which was actually recommended to us by one of our guests out there, Bunny, if she's listening. That was her asking about that. So we did that. So hey, good stuff. But yeah, guys, just head on over to Patreon.com. A lot of good stuff. We've got 911, what's your emergency? We've got our Narcometer review, our monthly Q &A, case of the month, you know, and so we have a lot of fun. So join us there. Patreon.com slash Game of Crimes. Now, this is a show about crime. We talk about bad people doing bad things and bad people doing bad things to good people. But in this case, we take the story seriously, you know, we don't take ourselves seriously. Exactly. But in this case, we wanted to just take out some of this because our next guest, Murph came to us by way of a friend of the show again, good friend of the show, Patrick O'Donnell. Yes, sir. And thank you, Patrick, again, for introducing us to Rick. This guy is a true American patriot and hero. Rick Prado is our guest today, worked as an ops officer for the Central Intelligence Agency. Now, if you've heard me talk in the past, I make jokes about what CIA stands for. But if you've ever seen our presentation, I explained that it's not an indictment of the entire agency. It was one particular person we had problems with while we worked in Colombia. The agency, in my opinion, is one of the best in the world. Everybody dogs them out because they can't publicly defend themselves because everything they do is secret, which goes to protecting our country. So, you know, I know a lot of you probably want to agree to that and you've had bad experiences or you just believe with crap you see on TV or in the movies. But Rick's going to straighten out a lot of that stuff today. You're going to hear stories that you're not going to hear anywhere else. And let me tell you, too, the great thing about Rick is we knew some of the same people and actually one of our guests we had on, Tracy Walder, previously, had just come on the agency at that time. But Rick was in charge of the Counterterrorism Center, CTC, for CIA. When you talk about the tip of the spear, they were the tip of the spear before the tip of the spear got in there, before the Green Berets got in there, before the first military boots were on the ground. It was CIA, their paramilitary officers. Guys, this is a story, you know, and I know people say, we dispel a lot of stuff. But here's the important thing, Rick gets into, we actually have some very candid discussions around 9-11, the current threat of terrorism, what's going on in the world. We dispel and disabuse people to some of these notions about enhanced interrogation techniques. It's not torture. I know some people disagree with that. It's not torture. Not when we put our folks through the same thing. He'll talk about seer training. But I think the biggest thing that I got out of this, Murph, was just listening. Here's another guy like Jack Garcia, came out of Cuba, fled Castro. These people know what communism looks like. They know how bad this stuff is. And they came to this country. His first firefight was at seven years old. He's going to tell you about that. First time, not that he was actually directly involved, but he was in the middle of a firefight at seven years old with automatic weapons. Again, it's just what an American, you know what the American story is, Murph? Here's somebody who comes to America, loves America, wants to do everything they can to defend and protect America against all enemies and foreign and domestic. And here's another guy that's living proof of the thing you always say, just because we retire doesn't mean our oaths expire. What he's currently doing is great. So hey, look, we're going to, like I said, we're going to dispense with a lot of stuff. We just want to get right into the episode. So before we can talk about this episode, Murph, there is one thing we do have to do. Before we talk about this, I need to ask you, are you ready to play? And you guys will realize this. In honor of 9-11, the biggest, baddest, most dangerous game of all, the game of crimes. Everybody get in, sit down, shut up and hold on. Bring Rick on a true American patriot. Unbelievable what you're getting ready to hear.
A highlight from 115: Part 1: Ric Prado Hunts Osama bin Laden and Leads the CIA Response after 9/11
"Ola, ola, ola, amigos, amigos, players, playwrights, dudettes, everybody in between, welcome. This is a special edition of Game of Crimes. We're going to dispense with a couple of things that we normally do, small town police water, things like that, because number one, it's the 22nd anniversary of 9 -11, never forget. And this episode and the following episode that you'll find, too, that we'll be talking about the issues of terrorism. So nothing funny about terrorism, nothing funny about all these people dying. But our next guest, we'll talk about him in a minute, but we just kind of want to set that stage real quickly, though. Thank you guys for joining us. Morgan here, joined by my partner in crime. Hey, it's Murph, everybody. Yeah, hey, guys, head on over to Apple, Spotify, hit those five stars, really means a lot. And after this episode, I think you'll realize why hearing stories like this are so important. So head on over there, head on over to our website, GameOfCrimesPodcast .com. The link to our next guest book, what we'll be talking about, you're going to find that there are all sorts of good stuff there. Follow us on that thing they call social media at Game of Crimes on Twitter, at Game of Crimes Podcast on Facebook and the Instagram. But look, join us over on Patreon, Patreon .com slash Game of Crimes. We just got through recording. You can't make this shit up. Had some fun there. We did our Q &A, which is one of the funnest things we do. I think it's the most fun we have because it's driven by you, our players, right? It's a blast. It's a blast. And we've got good stuff. We got some good comments on our previous episode, 911, what's your emergency? Which was actually recommended to us by one of our guests out there, Bunny, if she's listening. That was her asking about that. So we did that. So hey, good stuff. But yeah, guys, just head on over to Patreon .com. A lot of good stuff. We've got 911, what's your emergency? We've got our Narcometer review, our monthly Q &A, case of the month, you know, and so we have a lot of fun. So join us there. Patreon .com slash Game of Crimes. Now, this is a show about crime. We talk about bad people doing bad things and bad people doing bad things to good people. But in this case, we take the story seriously, you know, we don't take ourselves seriously. Exactly. But in this case, we wanted to just take out some of this because our next guest, Murph came to us by way of a friend of the show again, good friend of the show, Patrick O 'Donnell. Yes, sir. And thank you, Patrick, again, for introducing us to Rick. This guy is a true American patriot and hero. Rick Prado is our guest today, worked as an ops officer for the Central Intelligence Agency. Now, if you've heard me talk in the past, I make jokes about what CIA stands for. But if you've ever seen our presentation, I explained that it's not an indictment of the entire agency. It was one particular person we had problems with while we worked in Colombia. The agency, in my opinion, is one of the best in the world. Everybody dogs them out because they can't publicly defend themselves because everything they do is secret, which goes to protecting our country. So, you know, I know a lot of you probably want to agree to that and you've had bad experiences or you just believe with crap you see on TV or in the movies. But Rick's going to straighten out a lot of that stuff today. You're going to hear stories that you're not going to hear anywhere else. And let me tell you, too, the great thing about Rick is we knew some of the same people and actually one of our guests we had on, Tracy Walder, previously, had just come on the agency at that time. But Rick was in charge of the Counterterrorism Center, CTC, for CIA. When you talk about the tip of the spear, they were the tip of the spear before the tip of the spear got in there, before the Green Berets got in there, before the first military boots were on the ground. It was CIA, their paramilitary officers. Guys, this is a story, you know, and I know people say, we dispel a lot of stuff. But here's the important thing, Rick gets into, we actually have some very candid discussions around 9 -11, the current threat of terrorism, what's going on in the world. We dispel and disabuse people to some of these notions about enhanced interrogation techniques. It's not torture. I know some people disagree with that. It's not torture. Not when we put our folks through the same thing. He'll talk about seer training. But I think the biggest thing that I got out of this, Murph, was just listening. Here's another guy like Jack Garcia, came out of Cuba, fled Castro. These people know what communism looks like. They know how bad this stuff is. And they came to this country. His first firefight was at seven years old. He's going to tell you about that. First time, not that he was actually directly involved, but he was in the middle of a firefight at seven years old with automatic weapons. Again, it's just what an American, you know what the American story is, Murph? Here's somebody who comes to America, loves America, wants to do everything they can to defend and protect America against all enemies and foreign and domestic. And here's another guy that's living proof of the thing you always say, just because we retire doesn't mean our oaths expire. What he's currently doing is great. So hey, look, we're going to, like I said, we're going to dispense with a lot of stuff. We just want to get right into the episode. So before we can talk about this episode, Murph, there is one thing we do have to do. Before we talk about this, I need to ask you, are you ready to play? And you guys will realize this. In honor of 9 -11, the biggest, baddest, most dangerous game of all, the game of crimes. Everybody get in, sit down, shut up and hold on. Bring Rick on a true American patriot. Unbelievable what you're getting ready to hear.
A highlight from Algo Solving Climate Change! (XRP Transactions EXPLODING)
"Thank you, Hillary. And our 72 other friends. Hillary. Hillary, Barack, Joe Biden, thank you for your service. Yes. Thank you for your service, guys. This is Hillary Clinton's face when she's trying to do a serious show. Like I am. It's what it is. Okay. Watch out for Mr. Labs, guys. Watch out for it. They have a scammer at the head. I don't know if she's a scammer or he's a scammer. I don't know. I don't want to disgender. Cisgender? No. Disgender. Ungender? Sorry. We're getting in interesting territory. Is Al Goren teaming up with the Clinton Foundation to fight climate change? Now, I think, are we going to show that meme, BJ, during this? I mean, it's very serious. Well, I would actually say this is serious. We came, we saw, he died. And that is from Hillary Clinton, obviously, referring to Osama bin Laden. Thank you, Hillary. And her 72 other friends. Hillary. Hillary, Barack, Joe Biden, thank you for your service. Yes. Thank you for your service, guys. Sorry. Is Al Goren teaming up with the Clinton Foundation? Now, Al Goren is a very liberal project, just so everybody knows. Zoe McCalley is from MIT. They're very liberal. Very liberal. They love climate change. Love climate change. Same value about them. I don't hold it against them. I just understand these are liberal people that are running the project. Have at it. Teaming up. I don't hold against them. I don't think this is a big, you know, super bad story. And I think with joining with the Clinton Foundation, I'm going to bury that one. I'm not going to say it. I'm not going to say it. So did she. B .J. You're getting a little off there, B .J. B .J. Trying to keep this reined in. Just giving people information. Giving people information. Giving them what they want. Yes. This is what they want. And letting them decide for themselves. And we could, like, we could revamp the show. We could move to like a two joke maximum. Go to a two joke maximum. A one story, two joke maximum. Maybe the people like that. We start finding ourselves every time we go over. Absolutely. Two jokes. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. Al Grant Foundation behind Algo has come under scrutiny after Altcoin Daily posted a video today. Al Grant was wearing collaboration with the Clinton Foundation. Guys, this is not new news. You know this is not new news, right? You know we covered this story three months ago. Do people know that? Like, oh, my God. This is Hillary Clinton's face when she's trying to do a serious show. Like I am. It's what it is. Guys, this is not news. We broke the story three months ago. I remember AJ came in one day and was like, you know, AJ, I love AJ. AJ's great. I trashed him earlier. I'm going to lift him up a little bit here. Okay? Me and AJ have our own show coming soon. Yeah. It's going to be a very serious show. As all of our shows are. He's like, man, I don't know what to think about this Clinton Foundation stuff. This is bad. Al Grant's getting with the Clinton Foundation. I love Al Grant. This is bad. Wait a look, Doc. I said, it's not bad. I mean, people can have these relationships. Where they want. Like, guys, it's a liberal project. Of course, they want the Clinton Foundation involved. It doesn't mean it's evil. Just because someone's partnered with the World Economic Forum does not mean they're evil. Just because someone is in the World Economic Forum does not mean they're evil. We don't know. There could be some good people in there. Maybe Fox is in there now. Potentially. I don't know. But, guys, people partner with a lot of people, you know? Plenty of YouTubers out there promoted FTX. It didn't mean they were bad people. Maybe they didn't know. Maybe they didn't know what. Actually, they didn't know. None of the YouTubers that were talking about FTX all the time and promoting it knew what was going on. Nobody knew. We are the first people who started having some suspicions and putting it out there outside of refinance. So you can't really judge them for that. So, look, at the end of the day, Al Grant is a very environmentally focused blockchain. Okay? So, it makes sense. They're trying to be the fastest and the most efficient. So, see, back in February. Oh, I said three months ago. I mean, this is longer. It was six months ago. Six months ago this happened. Kicked off the week with the Clinton Foundation and the Globe. So what I'm saying is, guys, this is not new news. It's old, they call it. Well, it's almost a joke. I'm sorry, guys. I apologize. XRP makes over 1 million transactions daily. One was six euros behind it. Here's why it matters. On August 8, data retrieved by Finbowld, which I've always wondered what Finbowld means. I've always been confused on that. From BitInfoCharts, and you see BitInfoCharts, they clearly distinguish with capital letters. I like that. Shows that there were close to 1 .28 million daily transactions on XRP Ledger as opposed to 1 .09 million for Ethereum. Bitcoin, the leading crypto, lies far behind. We love it when things are behind other things. We love that. Because it shows potential. It shows potential for what could happen.
A highlight from Two Different Americas Right Now Amid Another Trump Arraignment
"Happy Friday! What a week, huh? What a rough, rough week it has been. You ever consider how weird it is that we feel like we live in two Americas? Isn't it bizarre how there are two kind of countries within the United States of America? Millions of us are disgusted at the persecution of Donald Trump. Millions of us believe that the Justice Department has been horrifically weaponized. Millions of us support police officers, the rule of law, the border, the military, the church. That's one America. Another America is like the direct opposite of all of that. They hate the cops. They don't want to enforce crime. They don't want to enforce the law. They look the other way at crime. And they believe that Donald Trump should die in prison. They literally believe because of Trump's belief that he was robbed in 2020, that he should spend the rest of his life in prison for that. I mean, this is exactly what this all comes down to. I want to give you an example of that other America. I am pro law enforcement. I spend as much time as I can. My life's work, along with my dear, dear friend, Joey Hudson in South Carolina, is to present Gallagher's Heroes, the Fallen Officer Fund. And our mission right now is focused on first responders' Bibles. First responders, police, firefighters, EMTs, paramedics, they witness horrific things in their day to day work, right? The first responders' Bible that you've supported over the years is a King James version of the Bible and a spiritual fitness manual that helps these first responders cope with the tragedies that they have to encounter. This week in Easley, South Carolina, a young police officer was tragically killed on train tracks. 22 year old kid, basically, but a young man who is beloved. The community is mourning. And we're going to make sure that the Easley and Pickens County law enforcement and first responders who had to be involved in that case receive these first responders' Bibles. So I'm pro law enforcement. I don't like criticizing a former Capital D .C. cop like Michael Fanone. Michael Fanone was one of the officers injured on January 6th. He has now parlayed that experience into a job as a CNN contributor. He is now a paid contributor on CNN so that he can take to the airwaves and say things like this. Terrorist who committed a horrific act against American people. Osama bin Laden was a terrorist who committed a horrific act against American people and against our republic. And I believe that Donald Trump is a terrorist who committed horrific acts against the American people. Now, you didn't hear that whole thing. I want to play it one more time. I want you to hear what this former Capitol Hill police officer who was injured while trying to protect the Capitol, heroic to be sure. I'm not going to slam the law enforcement that, well, didn't open doors for protesters and direct them into the Capitol. I'm going to talk about this guy who was injured on that terrible day. He is now a CNN contributor. Let me play one more time what somebody from that other America sounds like. Osama bin Laden was a terrorist who committed a horrific act against American people and against our republic. And I believe that Donald Trump is a terrorist who committed horrific acts against the American people. I honestly find myself so stunned at the vitriol and the deep hatred that people in that other America possess that I don't even know where to begin, other than to point out again that we are dealing with two Americas. I don't recognize that guy. I don't recognize that American. And he's a former cop.
Bin Laden SEAL Member Outraged Over Drag Queen Ambassador
"Bin Laden seal member outraged over drag queen ambassadorship. A navy seal who took part in the mission to kill Osama bin Laden says he was outraged daily mail. Over the U.S. Navy using a drag queen for a discarded recruitment program. Robert J O'Neill a decorated combat veteran who served for 8 years as a member of SEAL Team 6. Said on Twitter, he can't believe he fought for this bull. And you fill in the four letter word at the end of bull. All right, the U.S. Navy is now using an enlisted sailor drag queen as a recruiter. I'm done. China is going to destroy us. Which is fine with the left.
AP Sports SummaryBrief at 11:17 p.m. EDT
"DP sports, I'm Mike Reeves after battling weather issues on Friday and Saturday. They were able to complete the masters on Sunday. Graham agar's has the story. John Robin has closed out a comfortable four shot victory at the masters to claim his second major title, adding the green jacket to his U.S. open crown became the fourth Spaniard to win at agusta, joining 70 by a sterile Jose Maria Osama and Sergio Garcia. Never thought I was going to cry by winning a golf tournament, but I got very close on that 18th hole. And a lot of it because of what it means to me and to Spanish golf. In the NHL, the Boston Bruins won 5 to three in Philadelphia to set a league record with their 63rd victory. Bruins goaltender, Jeremy swayman. It's hard to win in this league. There's a reason why this record's at 62, because not many teams can get there. So it's a special honor. The play in tournament pairings are set in the NBA in the east 7 seed Miami plays number 8 Atlanta. About number 9 Toronto meets number ten Chicago in the west, the Lakers are the 7th seed and they'll host number 8 Minnesota, LA forward LeBron James for us as good as we don't have to travel. We travel a lot the ladies. It's good that we get to stay here, but that doesn't make us be comfortable. The other Western Conference play in match up will feature number 9 New Orleans against number ten, Oklahoma City, New Orleans, head coach, Willie green knows what to expect from the thunder. You may not get as many shots as the scores are not going to be as higher. And we still have to attack, have tech mentality. On the diamond, the rays defeat Oakland 11 to nothing to improve their record to 9 and O pitcher drew Rasmussen. I think this organization has come to expect big things when it comes to the regular season and moving into the postseason. And so the start we're off to is unbelievable. Wide receiver Odell Beckham junior has agreed to a one year contract with the ravens Beckham did not play last season following ACL surgery and Christopher Bell held off Tyler Reddick to win the dirt race at Bristol Motor Speedway. Mike Reeves AP sports.
We Boosted Military Funds to Face the Merchant of Death
"Since the Britney griner trade to me it's been nothing short of fascinating to watch it play out You know not many people come with a nickname the merchant of death Think about what you have to do in life to earn the name merchant of death Gotta do some pretty special stuff To get that kind of moniker Especially throughout the national security community Yet that was exactly the earned nickname of Russian terrorist operative Victor boot Which is what he is He's a Russian terrorist operative Which you know I would get a kick out of news reports identifying him as an arms dealer I mean calling Victor booted an arms dealer is about as instructive as saying Osama bin Laden was at about Muslim I mean this guy is arguably the most notorious terrorist this side of bin Laden in the century The kind of arms this guy dealt with they were missile systems They were rocket launchers among others And the targets of those arms happened to be American forces around the world Now this is ironic in so many ways The omnibus bill that just passed Congress that Biden will sign it's being talented for all of the defense spending All of the defense spending Well maybe the reason we need to increase defense spending Along with you know the reach around club or whatever it was for the LGBT youth community Maybe it's because Biden continues to make the world a more dangerous place by the day
Rashida Tlaib via Pro-Hamas Newspaper: Attack Israel
"Within days representative Rashida Tlaib and this hasn't gotten any attention except again from the free Beacon She spoke at a rally this month Reports chuck Ross and Adam credo With a pro Hamas newspaper publisher who urged Palestinians to attack Israel In other words the Jews That's what they mean Now this is 2022 2022 and this is spreading ladies and gentlemen This is stuff is spreading The culture rot is spreading Talib shared the stage with Osama The publisher the Dearborn based Arab American news At the second annual metro Detroit march for Jerusalem Palestine on May 15 Whose newspaper co sponsored the event urged Arabs and Michigan and elsewhere to quote fight within their means Against Israel whether it be with stones or guns or their hands
"osama" Discussed on The Lawfare Podcast
"From western pakistan to eastern pakistan. Now anyone who is involved in planning that attack on the indian parliament knew that at a minimum that would happen a maximum. It might have started a war between india and pakistan and one of the most interesting unresolved questions yves talks about it. But he doesn't have the answer. I don't have the answer either. Is who made that happen. Who came up with that decision. And what role did osama bin laden play that. Sorry to disappoint you. the answer. That question is not in this book. It's probably in the archives of the isi and those are planned to be open to the world sometime. Well actually. there is no plan to ever open simpler. Let's step back from this for a minute. Because i think one of the interesting things you do at the end of the book is contrast president bush's handling of this operation in tora bora in two thousand one with president obama's handling of the raid to go after osama bin laden in two thousand eleven. And just quote what you say. Ultimately the manner in which george w bush and barack obama interacted with their military subordinates shaped the outcomes of their operations to kill or capture osama bin laden president bush's and secretary rumsfeld's absent role in the battle of tora. Bora insured bin. Laden's escape will president obama's active involvement in the book about raid prevented the operation from going iraq. Say a little more about contrasting styles and what president obama did. The president. Bush didn't do share. I do want to point out initially that these are very different. Circumstances nation was at war in a moment of crisis in nine eleven and at tora bora that was not the same case in two thousand eleven. And planning the raid. They're different circumstances but what brings them together is. Both presidents had an opportunity to go. After bin laden there was a level of uncertainty and both had to deal with the military and going forward. I mentioned a little bit already. That president bush and secretary rumsfeld were not engage at all at what was going on tora bora in contrast when you look at the way. President obama handles the military. He had a level of active active involvement. That really got out down into practically every detail as you may know when the abbad rate occurred at the two helicopters were moving towards the compound. The first one went down and it actually crashed at to crash. Land was disabled. while during the planning process. President obama looked at the resources dedicated for the battle. And he said i'm sorry. This is not enough. We don't have enough individuals to allow the seals to battle the way out of pakistan. If they have to. And we don't have enough resources in case something goes wrong. So he specified that up to four additional helicopters. Were to go on the raid to landed in the middle of nowhere and pakistan's at a riverbed and waited too on the afghan side. That first helicopter went down. The other one was ready to go came over immediately. It's about a. I think a ninety minute flight. I'm sorry maybe forty five minute flight about about it took the pakistani military much less than that time to respond to the the downed aircraft message. So had there not been those those helicopters there we have been looking at a major international incident where navy seals were battling pakistani military forces. They could have been an extraordinarily different difficult circumstance and because president obama really got down in the details we can say the operation went off without a major hitch. I do want to say so that this can be looked at really politically. And i don't mean for it to be that case. Because president obama or president bush really felt filled his role and stepped into it. As you got more involved into his into his presidency. If you look at the way that he handled the surge in two thousand six in two thousand seven he listened to the military advice and he overruled them and so he did get down into the details. He did examine the information necessary. And i think he did the right thing so. I hope that it's not considered a political comparison. Because it's just two different instances in time where they're both going after bin laden underscore that point. This is this is not an advertisement for the dnc and after president obama's now running again so it'd be a waste of the dnc. He's tired what it is trying to do. Is take a look at leadership role of leadership and the lessons that we can learn from all of this to be fair to the bush administration. They were responding to an extraordinary event. The attack of nine eleven which created a sense of panic in the united states. They nervous breakdown if you wanted to. There was a sense that any moment there could be another attack on the united states of america. President obama in two thousand eleven was in a very different place. There wasn't a sense of imminent threat to the united states homeland and he had the opportunity to spend as much time as he wanted to before he decided to send in the seals. If he'd wanted to wait another month he there was. Nobody was no pressure coming from the outside world because none of us knew what he and his inner circle knew that they had a reasonable belief that they'd found a lot so accepting these differences. I think that the other big question. That i just want to close my part of this interview with you is. What are the lessons learned if you look at two thousand one. A failure of the counter terrorism mission. What lessons can we learn from out about future counterterrorism missions and future military operations and intelligence operations like this show actually like to go back to point and very quickly before i address it. One of my professors who i consider close mentor wasn't a high level position during this time in two thousand and one and he was at the nine eleven site a couple of weeks later with vice president. Cheney and he gets a call from stephen hadley who was the deputy national security advisor saying that the biotoxin detectors in the white house had gone off and apparently it was botulinum and in twenty four hours. Everybody in the white house would be dead if it was an actual attack so he had to go over while at the nine eleven site. That is still smoldering and tell the vice president that and begin to plan for the chain of succession then..
We Must Not Let the Future Generations Forget 9/11
"So as we look at twenty years later at nine eleven we have to do. And this is a call to action for every single adult out there in every single parent which you need to tell this generation didn't grow up with nine eleven. What happened on nine eleven. We have people that work for us at turning point. Usa that have no memory of nine eleven. None you now have a generation of leaders that are going to be growing up with no idea of what it's like where your entire world. All of geopolitics changes almost overnight. Air travel changed for good. How the military change almost everything chain. I know so. Many members of my generation have their own story of where they were and how it happened. And it's really it's really important question. And it's one that you think about it. Osama bin laden and his evil partners they wanna make america less free. They wanted to make america weaker
CIA Veteran: Al-Qaida Will Rebuild Within Afghanistan
"Hi Mike Rossi a reporting a CIA veteran expects al Qaeda to rebuild within Afghanistan Michael Morell who was the C. I. A. analyst who briefed president George W. bush on September eleven two thousand one said Tuesday he's convinced the Taliban will invite al Qaeda to rebuild in Afghanistan or L. who twice served as acting CIA director spoke at an online forum sponsored by the US attorney's office for the Eastern District of Virginia it was one of a series of panels this week to commemorate the twentieth anniversary of the September eleven attacks rail twice served as acting CIA director and he briefed president Barack Obama on the intelligence that led to the killing of Osama bin laden he said there's no doubt in his mind the Taliban will give safe haven to al Qaeda and he believes al Qaeda's intention will be to build capability so they can attack us here at home Mike Rossio Washington
"osama" Discussed on WCBM 680 AM
"Circumstance. Unintended consequences often lead to crushing reality. When we do something that doesn't work out job marriage investment. There is usually held to pay as the cliche goes. That's where President Biden finds himself on Afghanistan. The botched US withdrawal will haunt him the rest of his days and will hurt America in a variety of ways. It doesn't matter what Jen Psaki, the minister of propaganda, or the corrupt corporate media, put forth The truth is that only a heroic action in the future by the president could mitigate this colossal screw up. Place your bets. Now, if you think old Joe will deliver heroism. Let's start with the reinvigorated jihadist movement. Now fanatical Muslim killers have a huge safe haven in Afghanistan. If they have cable in hell. Osama bin Laden is dancing with the devil. As Americans endure the 20th anniversary of 9 11 later this week. Terrorists all over the world have reason to mobilize a week. US president encourages that Then there is great Britain, America's most important ally, the government there apparently thinks Biden is a ninny. Even leftist Brits are generally appalled that the USA did not work with Downing Street. In abandoning Afghanistan. China and Russia have to be very pleased by Joe Biden's failure. Expect trouble from those countries shortly. But it is in the United States where the consequences will be most immediately felt. Joe Biden is now a weakened leader. All the job approval. Polling demonstrates that so his domestic agenda will be far more difficult to pass. Many in Congress believe he is a detriment to this country. So his bully pulpit is receding fast. Independent minded voters have eyes. They clearly see that Biden is not really in command. And his policies have been terrible at the southern border and in Afghanistan. Economic hardship may likely follow and that will absolutely alienate working class Americans. Joe Biden can hide, but he cannot run from his circumstance. Again. Only a big win by the president will reverse is very visible failures. Is now being compared to Jimmy Carter. As the midterm elections loom. It is not completely over for Mr Biden. But he is behind by many touchdowns in the first quarter. And the entire world. Knows.
Whose Propaganda Is Worse: Biden Administration or the Taliban?
"Me show you what else I'm seeing. Bleed into our media here. And that is that, uh, Well, look, uh, the Taliban really do seem to be changing. They're making all kinds of promises. Here. They They say they will work with us after the fact you heard Blinken say it. So what Blinken says the media will regard you take And yet NBC is now reporting this just broke. That the Taliban spokes idiot The spokes. Terrorists said that there's no evidence Osama bin Laden was involved in 9 11. What do you think of that? Mr Producer? There's no evidence Osama bin Laden was involved in 9 11, but we're going to believe this guy when he says for sure. After August 31 you just show up with your papers will let you through. I don't know whose propaganda is worse, the Taliban or the Biden administration. The Taliban or the Biden administration. They're both lying. The bite administration wants you to believe that you can rely on the Taliban, but we're going to be very careful What we know who they are. Yeah, Yeah. They speak out of both sides of the man. We know they're dangerous. We know who they are, but they promised they said, you know. We have to rely on their word. Because that's all they've got The bad administration when they pulled the military at the first time, and they're pulling it out
"osama" Discussed on KQED Radio
"Progressive This is morning edition from NPR News. I'm Leila Haldin and I'm Steve Inskeep. The evacuation of Americans and their allies from Afghanistan is the most compelling story in the world right now. Tens of thousands Of lives are at stake. Yet Consider this. This epic story of struggle and peril and human suffering is just one detail of the 20 Year U. S involvement in Afghanistan. The United States first attacked in 2000 and one while hunting for Osama bin Laden, author of the 9 11 attacks. By the end of that year, it seemed that bin Laden had fled. And after he was finally killed in Pakistan in 2011, it became harder to explain what the United States was doing in Afghanistan. The U. S. Did support an Afghan democracy that offered new freedoms and opportunities to people but was also profoundly flawed. The many officials who focused on Afghanistan over those 20 years include Richard Armitage, He was deputy secretary of state on 9 11 and afterward under President George W. Bush. When we spoke, Armitage was profoundly critical of the mode of the US evacuation. Yet he gave President Biden some credit for getting out. When other US presidents did not. When was the first opportunity for the United States to get out of Afghanistan. I think the first real opportunity was in, uh 2000 and two, uh, in the winter when we were fighting in Tora Bora and the chase down Osama bin Laden. So after Tora Bora, you could have said, we're chasing bin Laden. He doesn't seem to be there anymore. We're leaving Afghanistan. United States didn't do that. We could have done that. President Bush had said publicly We're not going to nation build, but after we turn to Iraq We turned our attention away from Afghanistan. And in my view, it was on automatic pilot for quite a while. You were in the state Department. You were in the U. S government in this period when you felt it was on automatic pilot did you sometimes turn your attention to Afghanistan and say, why are we still there? It's 2000 and five And this is something that I had bear on my conscience. I think One of those who were responsible during the Bush administration for not having turned around and, uh, gotten us out of there. After all, I did visit Afghanistan on several different occasions. But From my point of view, my inbox was filling up and it was filling up primarily with Iraq. So you left office in the mid two thousands. George W. Bush left office and was replaced by President Barack Obama. When was the next opportunity to get out of Afghanistan have the United States chosen to do so. I think when the death of Osama bin Laden was announced, that would have been perfect time and perfectly reasonable. As I recall, President Obama made an attempt. They did a surge. They brought a lot of troops in then they brought them back down again and tried to announce an end to combat operations. Why do you think that didn't stick? Corruption stuck. And you couldn't put it over late professionalism on them. Does anyone doubt that the Afghans can shoot and fight But the question is is the sacrifice could be worth it. For tribe. It is themselves for their drive. Romance family. It is, but for the government in Kabul Just like the government in Saigon before the fall. The corruption was so overwhelming that it wasn't worth the sacrifice to the truth. Now, the next opportunity to get out was in the Trump Administration. And one thing that I know about the peace agreement that was signed under President Trump is that it was an agreement with the Taliban. That did not involve the Afghan government. They were cut out. They were supposed to make their own peace with the Taliban. Curious, huh? You're smiling. No, I'm I find it very curious. You have a negotiation, You ought to have negotiations with the parties involved. And we didn't and then President Biden decided to go through with President Trump's agreement. Just delaying it slightly. Was that the right strategic choice for the United States and personally of the opinion That we should have gotten out. And then Mr Biden's choice was a correct one. However. It has been so hashed up then I think it brings to the fore. Whole house to questions about the United States. Let me give you an example. Uh, the whole world had witness, uh, conga line of grifters in the previous administration that braided as Cabinet officers. Nobody knew better than our foreign friends. What these folks were about? So that raised questions. First of all about where the direction of the United States was second. Uh you had two successive administrations, Uh by and and drops, which couldn't handle the challenge of covid. Then you bring to that before the six January A coup attempt. And now you've got, uh, what appears to be an inability to even run a two car funeral. So I think that the that the correct decision was made. But the matter in which is carried out is going to have a long lasting implications for the United States and our standing in the world. Well, let me think this through because we've all seen the catastrophic situation for many people in Kabul. But the president spoke to ABC this week and said, Listen, no matter how it turned out, it was going to be chaos. Do you think that's correct? Now. We chose the date the arbitrary date originally of 11 September. Does that ring any bells with anybody? Uh, that was just waving a flag in front of the Taliban or anyone who wishes us ill. My preference would have banded Yes to, uh, take the end of the year making announcement. We're going to get out and use all that time to process special immigration. Visa is another thing. But the fact that even now, as I understand it, we're still to some extent trying to enforce some sort of bureaucracy and those leaving Afghanistan who are not American. It strikes me as insane. We gotta get him out and then short them out after I think we've already lost the opportunity to have sort of a court on senator around Kabul, Uh, had we moved in a little more quickly, uh, to kind of declare ourselves. I think there's a possibility, not insurance, but the possibility that Taliban Could have persuaded not to run into Kabul. Richard Armitage is a pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much. Thank.
How Chaos In Afghanistan Emboldened Terrorism - burst 1
"Chaos in afghanistan upton as president biden withdrew military forces leading to a forceful takeover by the taliban today august seventeenth. We will dive into one of the greatest foreign policy. The buckles in modern history. Good afternoon. i'm meeting. Kim and this is the outspoken oma quote. Joe biden has been wrong on nearly every major foreign policy national security issue over the past four decades and quote. Who said that not trump not a partisan congressmen or republican operative. That was robert gates. The former secretary of defense under president obama for three years and today as we see significant foreign policy the buckle unfolds in afghanistan that quote is once again reaffirmed now quickly dive into some basic background information as to what is transpiring in afghanistan back in mid april president biden announced immediate withdrawal all american troops from afghanistan by september eleventh. Twenty twenty one. Obviously september eleven was chosen dates because that was to recognize the anniversary of the september eleventh terrorist attacks and which led to the immediate was occupation of afghanistan because at the time afghanistan was harboring osama bin laden on august fifteenth. The taliban took over the capital of kabul effectively toppling. Afghanistan's governments later afghan. President ghani fled the country right before taliban leadership storm the presidential palace and thousands of afghan citizens fled to kabul international airport to skip the taliban. Now while oldest was transpiring. President biden was in camp david and he was strong criticized because he didn't have a strong message or strong immediate message in response to all of this so he traveled back to washington. Dc to address the nation from the white house one of the biggest elements that he was criticized for in the speech was the blame game in which he played and one of the obviously notable people in which she blames forwarded the buckle in afghanistan was trump and sort of implied some blame to bush and obama. He said quote when i came into office. I inherited deal that president trump negotiated with taliban on the his agreement. Us forces would be out of afghanistan. May i twenty twenty one. Just a little over three months after i took office. Us forces had already drawn down during trump administration from roughly fifteen thousand five hundred american force to two thousand five hundred troops in country. The taliban was strongest militarily. Since two dozen one the choice i had to make as your president was added to follow through on that agreement or be prepared to go back to fighting the taliban in the middle of the spring fighting season and quote. And but if you actually look at the deal that trump's state department may with taliban it's not what biden actually described in his address at a nation. Mike pompeo who was secretary of state under president trump said in a recent interview that the deal of the taliban was strictly conditional which meant that deal was was strictly predicated on the taliban committing to a peaceful transfer of power in order for america to withdraw after that commitment to a peaceful transfer of power appel said in a recent interview quote we would have demanded the taliban actually deliver on the conditions that we let out in the agreement including the agreement to engage in meaningful power sharing agreement some that which we struggled to get them to do but made it clear it was going to be required before we completed requirements to fulfil foley withdrawal and unquote. And you know there are some criticisms of the deal. Mike pompeo made with the taliban. Obviously the taliban actually pursuing a peaceful transfer of power from the afghan government was not going to happen. I mean we actually thought. That was being overly idealistic. So people had that criticism upon pales deal but even if biden did not agree with the policy that trump's state departments made in efforts to come to some sort of consensus with the taliban he kind of reversed it. I mean he was president for seven months. Which meant that. He'd independence day department and independence defense department and he could have used his powers as the chief executive to to reverse a deal that the previous administration made i mean for his entire time as president of the united states reversed nearly every single policy. That trump did while he was president. So this is no exception. I mean he should own up to the flaws of the policies in which he tried to pursue in addition to to trump he also blamed the afghan military. He said quote. The truth is but this did on for the more quickly than we had anticipated. So what happened. Afghanistan political leader escape up and fled the country the afghan military collapse. Sometimes we're not trying to fight if anything developments at the past week reinforced the ending. Us military involvement in afghanistan. No was the right decision. American troops cannot ensure not be fighting a war and dying in award. Afghan forces are not willing to fight for themselves and quotes. This is honestly one of the most politically cynical things that i've ever heard biden say the afghan forces are not willing to fight for themselves. Fifty thousand afghan military soldiers died in darndest entire two decades of us occupation of afghanistan. And the reason why they cannot successively defend themselves against the taliban was because biden himself pulled out a contractors and basically destroyed the afghans dependency on us military which are obviously undermined the ability of afghan military to counter act opposing taliban forces. According to the wall street journal quote in the wake of president biden's withdrawal decision the us pulled its airports air support intelligence and contractors servicing afghanistan planes and helicopters. This meant that afghan military simply cannot operate anymore and quote. Admittedly afghan leadership was significantly underprepared in the wake of the draw because as by afghan officials did not believe america will draw however according to andrew watkins a senior analyst for afghanistan and at the international prizes group research advocacy organization. There was no evidence that the taliban significantly increased their manpower and argue. The only reason why there's summer offensive was successful was due to a lack of us. Air strikes which meant that biden's administration shorter significant blame for the dismantling of the afghan government. What biden actually expect to happen when he pulled the entire the tire. Us presence from afghanistan if the afghan military dependent so much on the us occupation of afghan for the viability of their own independent military force. Then of course when they pulled out of afghanistan. The afghan military by itself was not sufficient enough to defend against the taliban if you're pulling out intelligence contracts that were vital for the dependency of the afghan military than have military is expected to fall when the taliban was advancing to the nation's capital and one of the other things that addition to buy actually blaming everyone except for himself for the marco afghanistan biden also discussed casualties in the in the afghan occupation. He said quote. Lemme ask those who wanted to wanted us to stay. How many more how. Many thousands more of american daughters and sons are willing to risk and quotes according to abc news. There's not been a single american combat death since february eighth twenty which was eighteen months ago. That's not to belittle the two thousand three hundred twelve american soldiers that lost life in afghanistan. But it is the suggests that thousands of stationed american soldiers in the lead up to the afghanistan pull out were not being bogged down by precipitous warfare in combat honestly by contrast more than fifty one thousand taliban fighters were killed by american armed forces which shows a major power imbalance in military superiority between taliban in american forces but aside from that by reportedly sent five thousand additional troops back in afghanistan to aid withdrawal despite his call for not putting sons and daughters at risk he just said that it was egregious to put american sons and daughters at risk for filled mission. So what is different about the five thousand additional troops. He sending back into afghanistan. Aren't those sons and daughters. Also at risk and to add insult injury tens of thousands of american citizens have been left behind it in afghanistan in the withdrawal according to the washington according to wall street journal an estimated ten thousand fifteen thousand new citizens remained in afghanistan so yes it is tragic. Every single american soldier died in. afghanistan is a tragedy. No one is disputing dance but suggests that afghanistan was a present danger to the current military soldiers. There from february twenty is simply not true and biden. Really closer to speech with i think when idiotic things that he said in his entire speech close with kohl's diplomacy he said quote. We will continue to support the afghan people we will lead before. Diplomacy or international influence in or humanitarian aid will continue to push for regional diplomacy and engaging prevent violence and instability will continue to speak out for the basic rights at the afghan people of women and girls just as we speak all around the world and quote and my question is just how. How can you negotiate with radical barbaric terrorist group that subject it's ethnic religious and gender minorities to brutal torture and murder. How can you negotiate with democratic for cystic regime. That is responsible for thousands of american lives. I mean honestly gonna ask nicely are gonna get on your knees and begged them to treat the afghanistan woman fairly. I mean i don't understand why biden continues to believe that's diplomacy instead of for actually using military forces is the correct way to go and this brings us back to. What was this for honestly at the end of the day with withdrawn. Us military forces from afghanistan he effectively reversed two decades of foreign policy and the initial mission of counter terrorism and preventing a staging ground for al-qaeda according to the pentagon united states government has been eighty three billion dollars in bolstering the afghanistan government and which is effectively gone to waste. I mean we spend easily billion dollars to bolster an afghan military but the afghan military is so reliance on the american forces to to help them to secure them. But when the american forces are removed from the afghan military to aid them than the billion dollar investment goes down the drain and now according to you defense and state department officials six billion dollars in military equipment including eight hundred fifty mine-resistant ambushed protected vehicles were abandoned in withdrawal which six billion dollars in. Us military equipment is now in the hands of taliban and other terrorist organizations additionally chairman of the joint chiefs of staff mark milley addressed congressional leaders and said that they will move the terrorist threats in afghanistan from medium according to axios which meant that. Obviously you're going to see a rise in terrorism and afghanistan and now that the taliban effectively controls its governments and to add insult injury the inside reports that taliban militants released thousands of prisoners from afghan prisons with links to islamic jihadist groups and al qaeda. So what has changed in the past two decades. We've tried to counter terrorism. We tried to decrease the the influence of kind of effectively imprisoning or killing al qaeda militants. We tried to decrease the the power of the taliban and we tried to effectively counteract attacks by the islamic jihadist groups. But it seems to me after this withdrawal after the dust settled what is going to be. The state of afghanistan will be similar to the state of afghanistan when we first invaded and his brings me to a new york times article which discussed heavier mackey. Who was a former first class army. Special forces soldier with several afghanistan deployments and will shot twice and he said in an interview with the new york times quote. I sacrificed a lot. I saw death every day every year. And the guys. I soaked with new would probably come to an end like this. But the chaos and made his andre after everything we gave. I just wish that had been away to leave. With honor and quote for people like mackey. There is a question that rang in numerous veterans. What was it for the situation. Afghanistan has become similar to america. I evaded two decades ago. All the bloodshed in lives lost in pursuit of counter-terrorism only define the terrorism revitalize. This president has trade the continuing efforts of veterans and committed a damaging dereliction of duty as commander in chief of the armed forces is devastating. What is happening in afghanistan and we can only hope citizens in afghanistan. Remain safe in this critical juncture. All right before we signed off. I like to extend a special. Thank you to my uncle. Who has made this podcast possible and untitled one of my greatest supporters okay. Today's episode the spokane podcast. You could read articles on a variety of important topics at outspoken opa dot com and follow us on instagram twitter facebook and linked in. Also if you'd like to show want to support it. Please go vis a five star review on apple podcasts and listened to our other episodes wherever you hear your podcasts. I'm thinking in. This is the outspoken oba. The outspoken oboe. Podcast is hosted by ethan kim directed by luc him and added by actually awesome the podcast independent production by the elbow from above. And it's edited by hit.
Thousands Flee Another Lost American War
"Years after countless deaths and $2 trillion in spending, Afghanistan is back in the hands of the Taliban. Many people are remembering the fall of Saigon in 1975, but this week's rapid fall of Kabul has brought its own unforgettable images now seared into our memories. Okay. There was this girl. Yeah, you know that thousands of Afghans flooding into the Kabul airport desperate to flee. Gut wrenching scenes of crowds of people running alongside and clinging onto an American military plane as he gathered speed across the runway and that video that went viral of bodies falling off the plane and plummeting through the air seconds after it took off. This is how it ended. Mission in Afghanistan was never supposed to been nation building. It was never supposed to be created. A unified centralized democracy are only vital national interest in Afghanistan remains today. What has always been Preventing and a terrorist attack on American homeland. But when President George W. Bush ordered the invasion of Afghanistan, where the Taliban had been harboring Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda had a very different vision about the U. S mission in America, not only fights for our security But we fight for the values we hold dear. We strongly reject The Taliban way. We strongly reject their brutality toward women and Children. He promised the US would defeat the Taliban and help rebuild a stable and peaceful country. American or allies. What? We'll do our part in the rebuilding of Afghanistan. We learned our lessons from the past. We will not leave until the mission. It's complete. Some Afghans took that promise to heart.
Tracking America's Longest War
"Turn now to look at the roots of what's become america's longest war the. Us invaded afghanistan. October seven two thousand one less than a month after the al qaeda attacks on the world trade center and the pentagon within days of the us bombing of afghanistan. The taliban offered to hand over osama bin laden the al-qaeda leader but the bush administration rejected any negotiations with the taliban. This is bush's press secretary ari fleischer responding to a question and october. Two thousand one would use afford say was the taliban might say at this point may not make any difference in the or flooring whatever they may serve. The president made it any clearer two weeks ago when he said that there will be no discussions and negotiations. So what they say. It's not as important as what they do. And it's time for them to act. It's been time for them to act in december of two thousand one just a month or two later the taleban offered to surrender control of kandahar if its leader mullah. Muhammad omar would be allowed to quote live in dignity in opposition custody u. s. defense secretary. Donald rumsfeld rejected the offer. If you're asking would would an arrangement with omar where he could quote live in dignity in the kandahar area or some place in afghanistan. Be consistent with what i have said. The answer is no would be consistent with what i have said. That's donald rumsfeld speaking december. Sixth two thousand one the us. Warren afghanistan would continue for almost twenty more years through two now.
Biden Is Downplaying the Next Osama Bin Laden
"And a couple of weeks we're all going to commemorate the 20th anniversary of 9 11. The Taliban are gonna be ruling Afghanistan like they were When our country was attacked. How do you explain that to the American people? Not true. It's not true that not can look just like they were. We were attack. There was a guy named Osama bin Laden and there's a lot of Osama bin Laden is hiding out in caves. In parts of Pakistan. Lot of Osama bin Laden is they can't wait. And they're all going to be joining together, strategizing together plotting together. They're going to have an entire country and they're not going to have to fear a thing. They're not going to fear us doing anything. This will be gone longer. NATO will be gone long gone. Nobody's gonna interfere with them. Nobody. They're going to have free run of the place. It is so much worse. Then before 9 11 so much worse.
Tom Cotton: Biden's Afghanistan Withdrawal 'Recklessly Negligent,' Catastrophic for America
"Glory america or high. The chaos at cable airport is less chaotic. American troops have secured the perimeter. It is still desperate situation. Thousands of afghans are trying to get to the airport. American marines have established a perimeter. Six afghanis fell to their death from airplanes. Yesterday it's been confirmed by the new york times. The president's disastrous speech yesterday has been widely in everywhere pan. They wished to begin this hour by reviewing with you reaction to this. Beach here is senator. Tom cotton john fox news. When neil cavuto not long after it was given cut number one. That speech demonstrated a president who has dangerously disconnected from reality. You can put aside the question of the decision to withdraw from afghanistan. just focus on how. That decision has been executed over the last couple of weeks neil The president seem totally oblivious to the conditions on the ground. He act is this as if this withdrawal is going in orderly fashion when in fact we have hundreds if not thousands of americans stuck behind taliban lines who have no clear instructions on how to get to the airport and out of the country. Joe biden didn't say a word to them. Furthermore claimed that we would somehow can continue to conduct over the horizon terrorism operations as he called it with exquisite proficiency. I guess that's going to be exactly like he's conducted. This chaotic disorganized the lasko of evacuation for american citizens. I mean the president claimed that He wanted credit for the break to kill osama bin laden now he may have forgotten that ten years ago he was loudly and famously opposed to the mission to get bin laden yet. Surely he can see what's happening on the ground afghanistan right now which is the direct consequence of his ilk disorganized decision to withdraw from
The U.S. Is Leaving Afghanistan in Disgrace
"You know it is a horrible disgrace. When people put their lives on the line. For us. Themselves to but specifically for us. We went into Afghanistan. To get Osama bin Laden and we went into Afghanistan to get the Taliban, too, because they gave him Safe, haven and protected him. And so we're leaving. The manner in which we're leaving is a disgrace. We have a major base there with significant numbers of about advanced weaponry. And we leave under cover of dark one or two in the morning. Without telling the Afghanistan military And so the Taliban sweep into this base and take the weapons. We have people who assisted us. A great threat to their own lives. Interpreters. Drivers and others. And this administration is not doing everything humanly possible to get them all out of there. That's not who we are. That's not what the United States military does. It's one thing to leave. It's a It's another thing to leave the way we're leaving.