5 Burst results for "Octavian Antony"

"octavian antony" Discussed on Today in True Crime

Today in True Crime

07:30 min | 4 months ago

"octavian antony" Discussed on Today in True Crime

"Fifty three year old Mark Antony and his army race to the outskirts of the bustling city of Alexandria. Antony was determined to beat back Roman forces before they stormed the city even though the army he was about to fight was once his arm. Earlier in life Antony was a close friend of Roman leader Julius Caesar until Caesar's assassination in forty four BC e Antony then became one of three new Roman co-leaders. The second was Lepres a statesman of Caesar's roam. The third was Caesar's teenage great nephew Octavian who would become Antony's mortal enemy octavian wasn't a warrior like Antony but he was a cunning politician after Anthony's Roman, wife died octavian arranged a marriage between his sister Octavia and Antony in forty BC E it was an effort to keep him in line as Octavian was deeply concerned about Antony's affair with the Foreign Queen Cleopatra. Antony and Cleopatra a notoriously passionate fling and by forty BC Antony spent most of his time in Egypt. Instead of in Rome Antony having a mistress wasn't a scandal in itself but Cleopatra posed a unique problem for Octavian. She was his uncle Caesar's mistress and very possibly had a child with him. That child had a claim to the Roman throne as did the two sons Cleopatra had with Antony. By thirty, two BC e Octavian declared war against Cleopatra and Antony sided with her she was the world's most powerful woman and together they could easily beat Octavian and rule the Mediterranean or so Antony thought. Octavian, forces were stronger than expected and by thirty B C e Antony and Cleopatra were holed up in her Egyptian palace waiting for the inevitable they fought often drank heavily and even considered betraying each other and allying with. Octavian. If it meant they would survive. But. Octavian had no interest in a secret truce. He took his massive army on a journey across the sea to Egypt, and on July thirty first, he arrived outside the gates of Alexandria the battle was on. Antony and Octavian men clashed ferociously in the summer heat but for once, Antony. Had A little luck on his side. Octavian men had made the long journey towards Alexandria all summer conquering Cleopatra's coastal territories. As they went back time they got to the capital the hot days and bloody skirmishes had taken their toll. Octavian had lost many of his men and the survivors no longer fought with the same vigor Antony's troops meanwhile had the advantage of fighting on their home turf. Account suggests the thousands of soldiers from both sides lost their lives that day but Antonis men managed to drive Octavian army back to its camp. That evening Akaki Mark Antony Strode into Cleopatra's palace with the swagger of champion though he was dusty and sweaty from battle. The first thing he did was kiss Cleopatra and call for a wine drenched celebration. While his men drank anthony had a messenger deliver a proposal to Octavian. Antony challenged Octavian to a one on one duel to decide the wars victor it would put a quick honorable end to all the bloodshed and end Anthony felt confident would be in his favor octavian he knew was more of a thinker than a fighter. However Octavian was aware of his limitations to he responded with a prompt refusal and he added a threat. There were a multitude of ways in which Antony could die. Octavian response was one of few developments that shattered the triumphant veneer of Antony's victory late on July thirty first Antony learned that some of his soldiers had defected to Octavian side despite their recent win they felt that Octavian ultimate victory was inevitable and they wanted to be on the right side of history. The night also brought news that Octavian forces intended to attack again this time by sailing into Alexandria. Antony urged his remaining loyal soldiers to have one last drink. The next day's battle would be a bloody one. Up Next Antony plans a last ditch effort to save Alexandria and suffers a heartbreaking betrayal. So I've been playing this exciting mobile puzzle game called best fiends I've been playing for almost a year. Now, Anna up to level three, hundred, thirty, one of course I didn't do all that myself. My kids love to play best to I like to play because it requires strategy while the game is casual I, find the puzzles challenging and fun. So I try to find time to play every day. I, like the bright colors and visual design of the game and the characters are super adorable. Best fiends treats the game like a service. So there are new levels, challenges and events every month the best part you don't even need an Internet connection to play don't miss out, try it for yourself and see if you can beat me. So engage your brain with fun puzzles and collect tons of cute characters. Trust me with over one hundred, million downloads. This five star rated mobile puzzle game is a must play download best means free on the apple APP store or Google play. That's friends without the our best beans. Now back to the story. On. JULY THIRTY FIRST OF THIRTY BC fifty-three-year-old Mark Antony pushed back. Rome's Army from the gates of Alexandria. He celebrated with his lover, the Egyptian Queen Cleopatra but the celebrations wouldn't last long Roman leader Octavian plan to attack again the next morning. In the early hours of August I mark Antony waited on the shores of Alexandria and watched as his fleet sailed out to face octavian warships. Antony was a ruthless warrior and Cleopatra's Army built powerful ships. So they stood a real chance of winning, but then something horrifying happened Mark Antony could scarcely believe his eyes when his fleet raised their oars in a sign of surrender to Octavian. Had just betrayed him which meant Alexandria was doomed.

Mark Antony Caesar Cleopatra Alexandria Anthony Egypt Julius Caesar Rome Lepres Antonis Octavia apple Mediterranean Anna Google
"octavian antony" Discussed on Parcast Presents

Parcast Presents

08:24 min | 10 months ago

"octavian antony" Discussed on Parcast Presents

"Who posh my child. I've only come in to look on you. I'm a grown man. Mother barely twelve. My uncles were dead and gone by this time in their lives. Your uncles were not. You always remember that I will leave you if my presence to Stir Ono beloved mother of course not. I was not even asleep. You cannot find yourself in dreams. Nights are not restful for me mother ever since the grand ceremony with Mark Antony and your other children I feel as if there's too much for me to be thinking of. That is an admirable trait for a ruler. But you are not a full blooded one yet. Leave the worries for me for the time being. But if I'm your horace King of all civilization how can I ever sleep It is a question I often asked myself when my father would keep me up late with my studies telling me endless tales of the bloody history of our line but that is why of done what I have done to end the violence of our family to make it a true family once again only from there. Do I see any peace for civilization any true benevolent power? I shed blood in hopes of draining all the toxins from the world so that I may hand you something pure and beautiful yet. You rely on Rome as your father did. Though I confide in you do not mistake it for subservience. Keep that blade from your words to not try to cut me with them. You will fail but I- excuse your perspective. It must seem that you I promise my son. I am beholden to no Roman man. No Caesar or Antony I hope you know. They all underestimate you. Everyone always does. Oh I know it's my son. They always have then. I will dream tonight. Mother of the day you stand before the burning fields of Western men and they beg you for gentle rain outside of Alexandria Antony neglected relations with Rome and Octavian resulted in a final breakdown between the two final triumph hours in thirty three BC. Octavian rallied the Roman Senate against Antony by appealing to their fear of Cleopatra and her desires to absorb the Roman state into her own by thirty one. Bc Octavian had amassed an army with which to invade Egypt. Antony and Cleopatra prepped for Final War to fund her Army Cleopatra Dug into the long guarded gold vaults of Alexander. Some decreed this as a sign of weakness. But in Cleopatra's mind she was simply using the last of the resources left to her by her now. Impotent ancestors her duty was to present day Egypt that Summer Anthony's navy sailed against Octavian off the coast of actinium. Cleopatra's own fleet approached the Malay from afar. My Goddess spoke rises on the horizon due out advisors. Give us no clarity. Who IS BURNING OCTAVIAN? Antony both sides where Roman colors and both sides take fire but the line is breaking in our direction. I believe Octavian has triumphed on this day but Evelyn Catis. What shall we do damned food signal to him? We make a retreat. This will have to be a ground war. I am not sure that will be achievable. I will not let Alexandria unguarded as that Roman ingrate rapes her shores. Turn the fleet. Antony has failed us. Cleopatra was no fool she would not be making romantic last. Stand with Antony on this day. Not when her true love of Alexandria still remained in her grasp. Her support would have been useless anyway. The military minded of Octavian was too great Anthony's fleet broke and fled toward Alexandria with Octavian. Hot on his tail when Cleopatra Reach her home the realization dawned this would have to be her final bastion truly accurate records breakdown here with multiple variations on the same basic history Cleopatra. Along with her two handmaidens. Iris and Sharma took refuge inside of Cleopatra's giant MONUMENT TO HERSELF AS ISIS. Day barred the doors behind them. Smart as Cleopatra realized that whichever Roman man reached her first Octavian or Antony neither would be too pleased with her. At the moment it was true. Antony was devastated at her abandonment but he had a bigger problems when he reached dry land he could not rally his remaining troops to his cause on August. First Thirty Anthony's army deserted him and joined up with Octavian Antony arrived at Cleopatra's figurative doorstep broken and alone. I know she awaits the end here. Where else would she flea? She's used to fall. Her bodyguards led me into destruction. Where else could she go reminisce? Speak to me well boy. Seemingly the last true believer in Western civilization. I come with unfortunate news. She refuses to see me. Is that it. I give her an empire and she will let me rot on these part streets. I fear fear. The Pharaoh is dead impossible. I fear she has passed from us. It is all gone gone. Plutarch tells us that Antony took a blade to himself in an attempted suicide. While again sources diverge plutarch's narrative continues that even this could not kill Antony. He lay in the street begging for death for anyone to finish the job. When Cleopatra heard this still alive and well in her monument she altered her plan perhaps a shred of love remained in her heart. Antony was brought before the still doomed. Pharaoh as Octavian closed in on the city he was literally hauled up by ropes into an opening on the side of Cleopatra's monument. You you are too clever and the Isis. Add much to cool. Look at him. Iris get him water for the sake of Rome. Get me wine. The last cask belongs to you. You're not split it with me. I must keep my head for the fall. Caesar as I lay in the streets hurt his legions approach. I was almost thankful you're dead. Cleopatra you cannot allow him to capture you flee while you have the chance I will not leave my city to this barbarian. You're right about that. It'll be barbarous. He plans to parade you to the streets in a gilded cage. He'll make you into the horror of Oliver home. He will settle for nothing less than your authored decimation. This you have heard from the lips of my own soldiers before they deserted me. I thought he would go quickly. Antton or better yet. Surrender yourself to the forgiveness of Octavian. We're all long past forgiveness. You know this here council Antony drink not Roman but it will do I. Basically Badger leave like children would live a takes us Aryan. He has no story destiny before him. Now on the short one if you truly care for your family Antony Antony my goddess he's gone rapid silk my goddess Octavian has breached Alexandria. What shall we do? I will see his face. He will see mine. Octavian will see the woman who should have brought him low when Octavian arrived in Alexandria. He was led to Cleopatra's monument and found her and her handmaidens inside her own mausoleum..

Alexandria Antony Cleopatra Caesar Antony Antony Antony Alexandria Anthony Rome Stir Ono Isis Iris Roman Senate horace King Egypt Evelyn Catis actinium BC Oliver
"octavian antony" Discussed on Historical Figures

Historical Figures

09:51 min | 11 months ago

"octavian antony" Discussed on Historical Figures

"Cleopatra's. There's own fleet approached the Malay from afar my goddess spoke rises on the horizon. DO VISORS GIVE clarity. Who is burning Octavian in or Antony both sides where Roman colors and both sides take fire? The line is breaking in our direction. I believe Octavian has triumphed on this this day but Evelyn caught us. What shall we do damned food signal to him? We make a retreat. This will have have to be a ground war true. That will be achievable. I will not let Alexandria stent unguarded as that Roman ingrate rapes her shores. Turn the fleet. Antony has failed us. We're Cleopatra was no fool fool she would not be making a romantic last stand with Antony on this day not when her true love of Alexandria still remained her grasp. Her support would have been useless anyway away. The military minded of Octavian was too great Anthony's fleet broke and he too fled toward Alexandria with Octavian hot on his tail when Cleopatra tre reach her home the realization dawned this would have to be her final bastion truly accurate records breakdown here with multiple variations on the same basic a history Cleopatra along with her two handmaidens. Iris and Charmian took refuge inside of Cleopatra's giant monument to herself as Isis Day barred Lorde the doors behind them. Smart as Cleopatra realized that whichever Roman man reached her first Octavian or Antony neither would be pleased with her. At the moment it was true Antony was devastated at her abandonment but he had bigger problems when he reached dry land he could not rally his remaining troops to his cause on August first thirty. BC Anthony's army deserted him and joined up with Octavian Antony arrived at Cleopatra's figurative doorstep broken broken and alone. I know she awaits the end here. where else would she flea? She's used to fall. Her bodyguards led let me into destruction. where else could he go? Remi- any speak to me wealth boy seemingly the last true believer in Western civilization. I come with unfortunate news. She refuses to see me. Is that it. I give her an empire and she will let me rot on these part streets. I fear I fear the Pharaoh's dead. Impossible I fear she has passed from us. It is all gone gone. Can plutarch tells us that Antony then took a blade to himself in an attempted suicide. While again sources diverge plutarch's narrative continues tin us that even this could not kill Antony p lay in the street begging for death for anyone to finish the job when Cleopatra heard this still alive and well L. in her monument. She altered her plan. Perhaps a shred of love remained in her heart. Antony was brought before the still doomed Pharaoh as Octavian closed in on the city he was literally hauled up by ropes into an opening on the side of Cleopatra's monument. You you are too clever Isis Isis. Much too cool look at him. I get him water for the sake of Rome. Get me wine. The last cask belongs to you. You will not split it with me. I must keep my head for the false Caesar as I lay in the streets hurt his legions approach. I was almost thankful you're dead. Cleopatra you cannot allow him to capture you flee while you have the chance I will not leave my city to this barbarian varian. You're right about that. It'll be barbarous. He plans to parade you to the streets in a gilded cage. H He'll make you into the horror of Oliver home. He will settle for nothing less than your authored decimation. This you have heard the lips of my own soldiers before they deserted me. I thought he would go quickly Antony or better yet. Surrender yourself to the forgiveness of Octavian. We're all long past forgiveness. You know this here console Anthony Antony drink not Roman but it will do I clip outdrew leave. Children would live takes US Aryan. He has no story destiny before him. Now only a short one one if you truly care for your family Antony Antony my goddess he's gone rapid silk my goddess Octavian has breached Alexandria. What shall we do? I will see his face he will see mine. Octavian will see the woman who should have brought him low when Octavian arrived in Alexandria. He was led to Cleopatra's monument and found her and her handmaidens inside her own mausoleum. Halt fault all halt. It has been years. Never have I seen your face so close. What do you think overrated? Get to know me as your uncle did as Antony did you will come to realize that everything in life is overrated. Except for me enough. Your words are magic. No More Cleopatra the seventh fill out a tour you are now a prisoner room you sound more like an emperor by the day way better than some foolish power hungry girl. I am a giver of life. I doubt your manhood even prepared for such a task yet. Antagonize Haggen is as you please. I am stone to your fire already molded against you fitting you found me here in your grave. Oh now mm-hmm you will be coming with me room. I have your accommodations prepared. Have you heard gilded baas suited for the Queen of Kings. The people of Rome will welcome you into city limits this time with great fanfare and much Dong to be thrown. I would expect nothing better. From Romance Wants Good Fortune in your own future rule. I thank you for doing away with Antony. Saves me the trouble. His children will be taken. Care of by Octavia Avia a true mother. Not a false goddess. I I am grateful for that and Cesario Laurean the Little Caesar only a babe when I saw him last he is a strong boy. Intelligent I purge the week toll make blood I have given the world. A true leader. Do not forsake him. Yes well unfortunately. It's not good to have too many caesars bastard usurper. This is how you honor your adopted father. I- murdering his kin. I hear it is the Egyptian tradition. visit not men when God every portal in and out of here there are but three women. You should be capable enough cleopatra. I will return with your son's son's head and your magnificent prison. No you bastard. No Octavian had caught the greatest prize as of Egypt but even in victory. He made the same mistake. Many men made in dealing with Cleopatra while under guard the Romans allowed Iris and Charmian to leave and return with a basket of Figs Cleopatra of final meal in her beloved Alexandria when Octavian and his guards returned. They found the two handmaidens. It's passing into death and Cleopatra Far ahead of them for hidden in that basket was what was called at the time and ask now known as an Egyptian Cobra as she ate her final decadence Cleopatra had stretched out her arm and allowed herself to be bitten. The Queen of Kings went out on her own terms. She would would be caged by no Roman ever again. The Tragic Final Act of defiance and one that did little to save her plan legacy as Octavian promised Celerion was executed after serving the shortest reign of any soul Ptolemaic Pharaoh and the final one Egypt was absorbed by Octavian emerging empire and Western culture dominated the Middle East for years to come one has to wonder. Sometimes if Cleopatra acquired such a legendary rule without even achieving victory in her aims. How much more renown would she be? If she had overcome the Romans her battle to unify and consolidate power would have spelled out a very different kind of civilization with less division between East and West. While it's impossible to know if we would be better off. There is no denial of Cleopatra's ambition and her incredible ability to operate as a female political figure in a male dominated culture without a chance of her post Ptolemaic ideal. Cleopatra refused to be taken into the Western culture she he had long to overcome but the fact remains the ptolemies were doomed either way. Cleopatra Refuse to let their line be washed away she empowered herself and sacrificed suffice her entire life to create a new type of society. She became an ideological monument. A sign post in history marking the path forward guiding guiding the way to the future..

Octavian Antony Cleopatra tre Antony Antony Alexandria Antony Rome Queen of Kings Egypt Iris Evelyn Charmian Remi Middle East Octavia Avia Anthony Oliver Cesario Laurean Lorde Haggen
"octavian antony" Discussed on WNYC 93.9 FM

WNYC 93.9 FM

05:53 min | 2 years ago

"octavian antony" Discussed on WNYC 93.9 FM

"Yet neither spot nor other sign of poison broke out upon her body. The writer talk again and Joyce. Let's remind ourselves of the context here as we discussed at the beginning of the program by thirty BC Cleopatra and engineers forces had been defeated by his rival, Octavian. Antony had taken his own life. But what do we actually know about Kipp Patras final days and hours how much of its historical? Embellishment. As far as we can tell participants have final days and hours trying to negotiate without TV into some way, either out of the situation not necessarily for her for her children, and she makes tries to officer bargains for children survived. She'll do this letter the other and he's not having any event. So the official story as she kills herself. The classical authors aren't quite sure how she does this. But it suggested that she's done by snake bite. And this this story really takes a whole. So that pretty soon after her death. It's accepted that this is how she killed herself. The snake makes a very appropriate death weapon for Queen of Egypt because queens, oh, very strongly associated with snakes an ISIS. The goddess ISIS is also associated with snakes. So it seems very appropriate. But in find it seems quite unlikely because to have a snake smuggled into over and then to have it bites you on killed you. It's to say, the least it's a very uncertain method of death Maria say much made of this supposed dramatic and tragic end to care patra, isn't it in later tax like Shakespeare. But what do you think was any suicidal motive really about the loss of her lover, whether considerations political, I think the Romans certainly see it as an act not of suffering and grief over the death of Antony in their view so much as an act. Of pride an attempt to escape what the consequences of capture would be because she knew that if she was captured she would be taken back to Rome dragged through the streets as Rome's conquest and possibly then executed afterwards. So the death seems to be a political act, and whatever way it was done. You could imagine that a Queen so gifted with the power of self representation would have ensured that she died in a way that matched her thirty as a ruler of the great for on kingdom throughout the program. We've traced a complex tangle of myth and embellishment and pure fiction later over the historical facts, sue Christian. I wonder you spent a lot of time in Egypt believe you just come back from there. Do you think there's any chance will ever? Discover more conclusive facts about care patra. Why are we destined to keep wondering about the truth of her? Well, I think research and archaeological research. And particularly will go on we will keep on reading tax title interpret tax and time to find archaeological evidence there are very important ongoing of is going on in Alexandria, part of which has been submerged by the Mediterranean. Soedra is going on off the coast in order to find out all the monuments in recent years time, and again archaeologists have announced that said were just about to find overhead found tomb of Cleopatra and Antony while that's not true the research still goes on. But one should wonder what are we looking at a thinking that Cleopatra and Antony are buried in the same to is that likely wouldn't Cleopatra be buried as a real Egyptian Queen. We might also be lacking in finding some new Egyptian textual evidence which could help us in explaining what really happened in the last hours. Moments before her death Jewish seen hundred voltages to navigate our way through those myths and straightforward inventions about Cleopatra. So do you think she's still someone we should take inspiration? From should we just leave her to rest quietly in the desert sands of Egypt? I don't think we can leave at arrest because there's so much Cleopatra information's delight there. People still absolutely fascinated by her. I think what we need to do is to keep looking join fund the truth of the story because she's an inspiring woman. She's a woman who money just to rule Egypt fairly successful. If quite a long time most successfully than any of the immediate members of her family on the truth deserves to be known. It might take as many many years to work out what not truth is. But it certainly was looking for a final thought from you Maria. Well, I would say one of the things we can do in the absence of finding any archaeological material lovely though, that would be and the tombs particularly one of the things we can do in fact doing it today is to take apart and analyze the myths that have been created around her. So for example, in the in the post Christian world this death by snake business was often actually associated with the figure of eve. So when you see a painting of Cleopatra with her snake? It then starts to look like the appropriate punishment of a woman who has seduced and humiliated a man. And so what we can do with that sorta material what we can do with her myths is take them apart. She has been voided of political authority in her history. And if we understand prejudices of gender and race, we can give that authority back. Well, on that note, we must draw our discussion to a close my thanks to my guests, Maria Wyche Joyce, Till's, Lee and. Christian greco? Don't forget. There are many more episodes of the forum available on our website where you can also download programs as a podcast just search for BBC the forum. I'm Bridget KENDALL. Thanks for listening. BBC.

Cleopatra Maria Wyche Joyce Antony Egypt Kipp Patras BBC ISIS Bridget KENDALL writer Alexandria Christian greco officer Rome official Soedra Shakespeare Lee
"octavian antony" Discussed on WORT 89.9 FM

WORT 89.9 FM

10:51 min | 2 years ago

"octavian antony" Discussed on WORT 89.9 FM

"But what ha so so the land redistribution process starts to Peter out. But Tiberius is younger brother guys after picks up the baton and he comes along a couple years later. He's now, you know, with his brother dead, he becomes the defacto head of this sort of political faction that Tiberius had helped organize anti guys is going to introduce when he gets when he gets himself elected Tribune couple years later, he's going to introduce not just land redistribution, but he wants to build colonies he wants to build roads. He wants he wants, you know, jobs for people out in rural areas. Yeah, he wants cancellation. Gosh was I don't think. There was lots of deck. I mean debt cancellation was a routine thing, I don't think debt cancellation was one of the parts of of gases program, but he is going to try to address in in a massive way in sort of a coordinated way like many of these problems that were opening up as a result of Rome's, great imperial triumphant all this inequality. That is getting worse and driving people off their land. You have poor people in the cities. They're suffering from food scarcity in like if one grain shipment doesn't come in. And like the whole city is going to explode a famine. Right. And he's like, oh, I know how we can fix this will subsidize the grain. And then that'll be that'll just be a smart thing that we do. So he's introducing all of these reforms, and, but it goes the same way for guys that it did for his brother there. There's a conservative element inside the Senate that is going to resist this. They're going to they tried to they co-opt a lot of his measures. There's. There's a Tribune that comes in named them. Jerusalem. Truth is the elder who becomes one of guys his fellow tribunes. And he says, you know, oh guys is going to give you four colonies, I'll give you twelve colonies, and oh guys is going to give you a plot of land. But you have to pay property tax. Will I'm gonna give you a plot of land, but you won't have to pay property tax. And you know, guys wants to give it not just a Roman citizens, but to but to Italians as well like non citizens like just people in Italy. He wants to redistribute it to everybody wall only give it to true Roman citizens. And this peels off a lot of support from guys. But drew says never had any interest in following through with any of this. This was just this was just a Kim. This is just a huge dust cloud that he was throwing up to be like. You know, they wanted to stop Geis's reform. So how do you do you actually promise even greater reforms? And then once the people have turned to you like, all right? Well, you say you're going to do even more for me. I'll follow you that allows the Senate to push guys to one side, he you know, will die a violent death. And then once guy says out of the picture, you know, where did those twelve colonies go where did where did the tax free land? Go where did where did all these promises? Wind up that poof, gone. They're gone. Yeah. Yeah. They were never followed through on. Because the the point was not to solve problems the point was to peel away support from guys long enough that they could dispose looking at Taibbi areas and guys Caracas or rock, I guy. Yes. Grouchy grouchy. I'm sorry. Yeah. Are they revolutionaries you said on one hand earlier that there's even a conservative element to them trying to get it the way things were before. But before this time. Have we ever have you forever? You know, a serious student of history have seen anything like this before they saw the type of Tiberius and guys the answer to that is. Yes, there were definitely examples of this type of program populace. I mean, the populist demagogue was a fairly standard archetype in the ancient world mostly in Greece rant. So and and you know, all the educated Romans at this point are they all read and speak Regan. They've studied Greek history. And there was actually one of the books that I was reading about Tiberius Caracas proposed that just just before the arrival of the guy that this treaty had been published about some of these Greek demagogues who had you know, had done x y and z, and they they promised land reform, they wound up killing they wound up killing a bunch of people like there's like real serious demagogues. We're gonna I'm gonna rise up the people, and they were gonna to murder the air stock Crecy of this city, and that that that idea was actually floating around inside the Senate, and then they were like watching. Tiberius try to do the same thing. And they're like, oh my God. He is gonna come murderous and our beds, even though I don't think that that's what Tiberius was up to. So there were examples of this kind of populist demagoguery that existed. But whether whether the gratae are revolutionaries they were I don't believe that they were trying to overthrow the they were not trying to over not. They're not trying to overthrow. The government is serious reformers, they're very serious there. Reformers. But they both Tiberius and guys and the other thing that's interesting. That's important to note is that as they were tribunes, right? When this is happening. There thirty years old there. Thirty two years old attributed is not the is not the end goal of any Roman politicians career, right? You want to be console consoles like the real price. That's where you get when you're forty forty five years old. So. A lot of what Tiberius guys were up to was a step along the way on the way to their console shift console ship that they're ultimately going to be pursuing their they're growing their power base. They're using all these popular programs to make themselves more popular and more influential. So that they could eventually run for consul. But they they die as Tribune. So we we think of them as if that was really this was the end game for them. But it was not right. But I also don't believe that endgame was overthrowing the Senate and making themselves in Thailand, I don't believe that about Tiberius when I don't believe it about guys, I believe that they wanted to be the most powerful and influential men in Rome, and I believe that they were willing to increase the power of other groups at the expense of the Senate. But not that they wanted to crash the system down on its head. We aren't Gummer station with Mike Dunkin. Mike Duncan is a renown history podcast or he hosted the award winning podcast history of Rome. He is now producing. Another podcast also, very popular called revolutions, which is about major revolutions in world history. He is author of the book that we are in conversation about it's called the storm before the storm the beginning of the end of the Roman Republic this conflict, obviously would live beyond the deaths of both Tiberius and guy. He will it happen. How did we get from this to Julius Caesar's is Julius Julius Caesar is is the end of the Republic, right? He's the end of the end of the Roman Republic. And we're still at the beginning of the end of those are the those are the two bookends. I mean, I mean, the guy brothers and then Caesar and really like Octavian Antony, you know, depending on where you want to put the pin in the Schrodinger cap box that has the civil war like when does the Republic die like is a dead. Now is it dead now baby you can have about like when it actually died is the Cadillac or dad don't now. But. What happens to the guy? Their example, and the memory of them continues to live on in the Republic and the the way that they harnessed powers outside of the elite conservative, aristocracy, the powers that they were able to harness people did see that. And we're able to try to emulate what it is that the rock. I did and try to carry forward the legacy of the rock. I even if they themselves were dead. So there's about. Taibbi Tiberius, excuse me guy dies at the end of the one twenty. So the the one teens rant on your way on down. It's hard. It's hard to do shorthand like the one teens BC like what guess so it's the one teens BC is a fairly that's a conservative decade or so, and I think that they the gratin pop Alaric coalition had been pretty well smashed. But it does come back. It does re rise they they sort of put it off for ten years. But it does sort of come back specifically, you know, if you get into the book the corruption that has introduced by g girth as Jakarta's this north African king who wants to have his own way, he wants to sort of flout Roman authority. This is kind of -fensive to the Roman people. But for some reason, the Roman Senate isn't doing anything about it. Why isn't the Roman Senate doing anything about Jaeger thin because you're ping massive bribes to the Roman Senate to not get in his way to not get into his business? So this there's a there's more or less a corruption scandal. I mean, you of a foreign power has invest more or less corrupted the the Roman Senate, and this leads to a renewal of that pop Laura energy, they gets taken over by by a different by by by a new generation of of figures, and this then becomes sort of a cycle that does go on then for the next hundred years where even if you get to a point where the conservatives a once again like emerged victorious which happens again, like after about one hundred BC, there's a there's another little ten year period, where the the energy of the popularity it sort of spent itself in a in a pretty major battle inside of Rome that I think is in chapter eight of the storm before the store. From the beginning of the end of the Roman Republic, which you should all by and read, and then this'll make sense to you. But this just kind of keeps coming back around and Julius Caesar is himself uses this you can back up and look at what guys Caracas was doing in Tiberius Caracas doing and then fast forward to what Julius is doing is using their playbook. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And and certainly he's using it through Marias and through some other people because I mean. Yeah. Of course, marris's literally Julius Caesar's ongoing marris's one of these people who uses this kind of popular tactics. So there's kind of a direct line that gets that gets passed down Julius Caesar's popularity leader. And he's gonna use that. And he's going to be the one who ultimately does succeed in and by Caesar's time. Like, he's the same thing as he tried to overthrow the Senate. That was never really what he was trying to do. He wanted. Not unlike the I to be the most powerful man in Rome, the most influential man in Rome, but was he trying to destroy the Republic. Like, I don't think he was certainly that wasn't his aim to begin with it just is what happened as a result of his pursuit his insanely ambitious pursuit of power his relentless pursuit of power does wind up destroying the Republic. But I don't think that's so what was it wasn't a Gusta Caesar..

Tiberius Senate Julius Julius Caesar Rome Roman Republic Tiberius Caracas Roman Senate Caesar Gusta Caesar Peter Italy Greece Mike Duncan Geis Jerusalem murder Regan BC Gummer