4 Episode results for "Oakland Post"
Oakland University Professors on the picket line; Link scooters coming to Detroit
"A quick reminder. If you haven't already we have survey daily. Detroit dot com slash survey. We're looking to make the show. Better thank you. That's daily detroit dot com slash survey. Hello and welcome to your daily detroit. It's september second twenty twenty one and on this thursday. Got two big stories. You first oakland. University's professors are on the picket line. Jeff thomas from the oakland post joins us to help sort it out and fill us in and then does detroit need another scooter company. Well link think so. Meredith starkman from the company joins us to talk about their new offering. Why they think they're different and what they're doing all right. Let's just jump into it. Joining me virtually is jeff. Thomas the editor in chief of the oakland post oakland university's independent student newspaper and that independence is a key thing and one of the reasons why i want to reach out to him. He's not affiliated with the university or the union. Any of the people have pet play. He's somebody who can give us some perspective and his thoughts and analysis on the crowd of what's happening. Welcome to daily detroit. That'd be here. Thank you very man. Let's set the table for listeners. Who may not know. I have had the story. On my periphery for a while. This has been bubbling up. For some months i mean it's been bubbling up really for Basically over a year early since the beginning of cove. it you know the faculty contract Yeah the fact that. The contract was set to expire last summer and due to the extraordinary circumstances. A covert nineteen They did an extension from last august until august fourteenth. Twenty twenty one at midnight. The negotiations the formal negotiations to get a new deal on the table for the school year started at the end of the may have been ongoing really this summer. So it's it's really something that's linked to cova. Nineteen really the last year apps for this to be stuck so much. What's what's the big rubbing points with the bigger points is the deal that the administration's offered to the faculty i mean. They're talking about cutting health benefits on the reducing pay. They're giving out there reducing. I shouldn't say the reducing a although they're cutting credit hours for special lecturers which in effect reduces pay the reducing raises. You know it's it's basically quality life stuff on that people need people need health. Insurance people need dental people need their retirement benefits with the which the administration is tried to have more control over As well as having more control over what goes on in the classroom they wanna be able to tell faculty When and how they can teach as far as it goes further promote instruction versus gerson instruct instruction. Which has never been that way before. So yeah the. The major sticking points are a lot of different things that information is available on our website through Oh composed online our coverage of it on also through The bargaining report which is available through the ou american association of university professors. Their website as well. But really you know. It's been a long summer. It's been a brutal negotiation and You know it's the administration plan are edible if you look through the history of these negotiations as they've unfolded. Since may there's been a lot of biding time. There's been a lot of waiting. There's been a lot of foot-dragging you know. There wasn't a significant economic proposal on the table for two months after the initial beginning of these negotiations in once the union presented that to the administration. They took another two weeks before they even responded with their own. Economic package last night was the fourth and final deadline extension of the contract. The contract between faculty in the university is now expired The last extension they had was from last august twenty fifth to august thirty. First you know sixty extension and the administration took five days six days in. They said we're not coming to the bargaining table. So that's been the approach in. They've put the pressure on the faculty that way. I don't know how many people know this but faculty at public universities. They don't have a tunnel average any situations at any time. A judge can order them and say go back to work. They can't strike the way that other people strike because you know they work in public institutions. It just doesn't work that way so the administration in my view is taken advantage of that and they put the faculty put their backs wall and they've said go ahead. Do it strikes whatever you would wanna say work stoppage whatever you would wanna say And they've used that as leverage to Essentially propose a less than desirable. Deal for the faculty going forward. Why is the administration pushing so very hard on this. It's hard to say there's a lot of speculation and the reason that it's hard to say the reason that there's a lot of speculation is because Transparency from the university has not been there. They've been very tight. Lipped as far as negotiation goes which has led to speculation. You know about key people that are associated with the administration. You know the new chair of the board of trustees robert so shack. I mean he's a. He's a former republican chair. He somebody associated with the snyder administration associated with constructing that right to work legislation passed in two thousand twelve. I mean these are anti union type people so there's a lot of questions that way because when you when you lay out the information you look at it you say if the number one top priority was taking care of the university prioritizing What's best for the students in what's best for the faculty and kind of you know. Providing the best service at the university can provide in taking care of students in making sure that the school year starts on time. We don't arrive to the point where now. If that's the number one priority now the administration will tell you to be fair. They will say covert nineteen enrollment. Down you. know we're not receiving the type of endowments other institution on that other places are and they have a fair point. You know they do have a point in that but the thing is is the faculty understand that and they came to the table understanding that you know. This is an extraordinary year under extraordinary circumstances. But what they've been offered it just it doesn't match up with the information that's out there. There are institutions in the united states of education who have been devastated by cova. they've had to cut departments. They've had unilaterally take extreme measures. Get rid of tenure stuff like that but oakland university of when you look at their finances. They're not in that kind of situation. It's not an ideal economic situation but it's not the dire straits that other institutions are Which is what the faculty are saying. You know from the faculty's perspective. From what i've heard and what i've seen the economic proposal that initially came across the table from the administration was in the space from an outsider's layman's point of view. I've noticed over the last few years that oakland spent a lot of money on physical plants is is that part of this discussion too. Because i mean i. It seems like they've built new structures. Lots of physical things as opposed to you know doing things with the staff and the faculty it's difficult First off open university for those ryan acquainted. It's a bit unusual as a university. Because it's very much a commuter school. It's not like east lansing or like ann arbor where everybody's in town. There's this big on. Campus community community So the layout of the campus for years. Now they've been behind on space for years. They have not had the type of building space really required to accommodate slowly the campus community the student body etc so constructions very complicated issue. Because you can look at it and you can say. Why are we spending all this money. Where our priorities at other people including faculty that'll tell you like a you know we need more space. We need space for students need space for our professors. We need administrative space so we can take care of students with disabilities students with special needs so there can be the type of confidentiality in the type of care that goes into the education process. So that's a complicated issue in those kind of the two sides of fair fair and finally before. I let you go students. Do you have a sense of what students are feeling on the ground. It's got to be frustrating. To not have classes start is a very strange experience this morning. Being around campus being out on the picket line seeing students i will say that as editor in chiefs. Iv utilize the letters to the editor function of the oakland post in the forum. Anybody wants to see what informed students alumni are saying about the situation. That's up at oakland post online dot com in. We've had a tremendous outpouring of responses So you have that side of it where they're coming out there saying what's going on with their faculty i love. My faculty might professors there. The lifeblood of his university these people changed my life. But you also have people where it's like you know. It's not their job to be up to date on what's going on their freshman. They're whatever they showed up. They wanted to go to classes as their first year in there saying how did we get here. You know what's going on you know and so it's a mixed but generally the student body as people would probably expect when they hear about negotiations in here about What's going on. They say we gotta take care of her professors. The professors are gonna take care of us. The students that consumers the people that pay thousands of dollars come here and that's going to contribute to the well-being the university going launcher. This is a developing situation. Things can change on the ground quickly. If you want to follow the blow-by-blow if you want to know what's happening. You wanna read oakland post online dot the oakland post the oakland university's independent student newspaper. Jeff thomas thank you for clearing the rest of us in in. What's happening in something where you know. A lot of us opened up our headlines. This morning and went didn't even know this was happening. So really appreciate you filling us in they give grant for having me on and i'm glad they're spoken to you and yet people information's out there. Go seek it if you're interested. Thank you joining me. Virtually meredith starkman. She is from link by super pedestrian. Welcome to daily detroit. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. And it's good to talk to you. You know my my friend devil riley listeners will know mentioned you guys awhile ago and then magically it's like way able to make the connection and learn a little bit more about what you're doing with these links scooters kind of how they're different. I think that's the first thing i'll start with as a city resident. I can't help but say like okay. We've got a bunch of scooters around here right you look in there there are scooters here what sets link apart right off the bat for you. I think the most obvious thing to mention off the bat would be the wave of the scooter. Looks i. I was saying to a friend earlier. You know. my mom is in her sixties. She lives in metro detroit. She spends a lot of time downtown. i don't think i would catch my mom on any of the other scooters but our vehicle is remarkably larger. I mean you. Use the word when i spoke to you before chunky and i definitely liked that but you can ride the scooter on cobblestone. You can ride the scooter over a bump and not feel like you're going to go flying. And when you see the scooter on the street it's unlikely that it's going to be toppled over because of its size and you can tell physically that it's different So i think that's probably point one and then point to would be you know where the motor city we are known for labor Grow up my dad was labor attorneys. This is really important to me by. Our company. Makes a point of having community source labor and to employ people exclusively as w. two employees versus as gig labors which is pretty notable departure in the industry. A w. two provides a level of security and safety for for workers and then hopefully also a level of service for you which i think is going to be really important because if there's anything that's been a theme on the show the last couple of weeks is that you know getting workers getting people actually served things as a challenge in making them w. two employees and supporting them might give you a leg up. Yeah absolutely. I mean we find that. The people that we employ are really excited about what we're doing because we employ them fully. And i think that that inner city like detroit where you know. Labor has been the focus of what we are and what we've been producing for all of these years. It's important as the way we get around mobility shifts in the city that we really fair and equitable and good Approach to it. So how does some of the features that link have. How does that fit into that mobility shift. I'll say as a resident. I see a lot more scooters around. I see people take the bus. And then the scooter. Or they'll hop on a scooter. Instead of taking a transit trip or taking an uber. Or something like that. Because uber's have gone up in price and things like that so and so. Where does that fit in all of this in detroit and i know that you have some additional features like Geofencing things like that. How does that all fit together. So i i wanna talk about like the last mile. So it's that idea that after you get off the bus trip you still might have a twenty minute walk. Our ideal goal is to replace car trips. It's not to replace ends it trips. It's to work together with transit's with transit trips it's to work together with walking But i was saying to you earlier. You know like. I used to drive downtown in the suburbs of my mom to go to baseball games. And she worked on for twenty five years so we would park where she worked. Which was near the nonstop building. Or you know down on lafayette and it was a twenty twenty five minute. Walk to the ballpark and this kind of mobility is the answer to the question. We didn't know that we needed to ask twenty years ago. You know and it's something. The detroit has kind of you know eased. Its way into an. I feel so proud to be operating downtown now But that's that's kind of the essence of that last mile problem and and ways that we can help to solve it in terms of technology are scooter has a literal built in a mechanic so that we can see from our warehouses if a single wire is broken inside the scooter if anything is wrong with the battery so we dispatch our team exceptionally quickly to go and get that. Scooter fixed that scooter. At whatever change needs to be made so that accidents internal issues error messages things that could bother or harm. A rider are snuffed out before we even get to that point and in that way. The technology is kind of mind-blowing. Doesn't that kind of work with having a workforce kind of ready at the hand though. Because i've seen a lot of scooters over the years that over the last couple years where it's just like. Oh you're you're sitting alone out there little friend and you're out there for a while because the nobody's picking it up or if you're trying to use it and you're like oh it's not charge or oh i don't know why it's not moving that kind of stuff. We're serious about the structure the durability of the scooter the vehicle itself but we're obviously also extremely serious about the sustainability of the durability and the you know endurance of the technology inside. And i think that what's nice and a nice way to think about it is that we don't see our scooters as disposable and we don't see our workers as disposable and that when you're talking about sustainable mobility should be the essence of of the of the industry right we want these scooters to last as long as possible in the best most efficient safest sustainable way they can and we want to treat the workers that we employ the same way. We'll end a dirty little secret about the businesses that so many people use the same scooters and they just replace them if they die or something like that. There isn't that some of them do do repairs but also a lot of them. The ideas you use it you burn it out and then you toss it yet with those and i obviously. I don't expect you to talk about your competitors like that. But that's something that i know and when you look at it and you go oh this is the same unit each and every single one. Yeah and so are scooter. Per battery per unit actually gets much higher arrives that other competitors in the industry and again that increases our sustainability. Because we're not. We're not replacing these vehicles frequently. So how does the user experience work for potential writer. How does that stack up so the links scooters app is easy to find. You can find it on your app store on an iphone on an android phone you use. That has an app store. You search for links scooters and you'll find our application through labor day. Through monday we are offering free unlocks unlocks after labor. Day are usually dollar to unlock the scooter. And then thirty nine cents per minute. There's also a link pro program as well. Everyone talks about equity components. You talked about the w two part but you know one of the things was really successful with the bike. Share is actual discounts for people in a lot of different groups. And you're doing something similar here so the first thing to know. Is that if you're on your way to a vaccination appointment or on your way back from a vaccination appointment we're offering completely free rides so if you go to our website link dot city were offering completely free rides to and from vaccination sites and then additionally we have a program called link up and if you are receiving any sort of state or federal assistance if you live in subsidized housing We are offering significant Discounts on rides for folks So that our system in our our program can actually be truly equitable. And then finally. Before i let you go their jobs in detroit if you want to work with the company absolutely super pedestrian is currently hiring in detroit. We are so excited to be in the motor city. And we'd love for you to come work with us. Meredith starkman linked by super pedestrian. Thank you for your time on daily detroit. Thanks so much. Have a great one all right. We are done for today. Thank you so much for listening. It has been a very busy day. So i'm heading to kiessling for a cocktail. Thank you of course to our members on patriotic patriot dot com slash daily detroit. You are the absolute best. Alright deva riley is going to be in the chair tomorrow with me. We a lot to talk about. And of course we've got our survey daily detroit dot com slash survey. I'm jair stays to care of each other. And i'll see you around detroit.
Meet the Detroit Residents First Fund (ft. Daija Butler) + Stories to know around town
"Hello and welcome to your daily detroit. We're back after a long labor day weekend with what to know. And where to go in southeast michigan i'm jair stakes today's feature conversations with deja butler about the detroit residents i fund. It's millions of dollars to support grassroots projects. But i something snow around town about eleven hundred homes near the ford flat. Rock assembly plant are under a voluntary evacuation notice. The plant is located near i. Seventy five and gibraltar roads. A leak from gasoline storage tank resulted in fourteen hundred gallons of gas spilling into the city. Sewers for has kept the spill. Drinking water is on a separate system and not impacted. There is no concern of explosion but there are around residents health in humans. Benzine vapors in gasoline can cause problems like sleepiness dizziness headaches vomiting and rapid heart rate in the short term long term it increases the risk of cancer and can hurt the immune system. It will take weeks to do air quality testing throughout the community though it was done at the local high school flat. Rock officials are waiting on special equipment to get testing done on a wider scale. A million in aid from ford is being distributed through the flat rock community foundation. This includes vouchers for hotels. Production at the flat. Rock assembly plant will halt for a week. It usually makes mustangs. They had made lincoln continentals until they were discontinued last model year. The evacuation is voluntary. And it seems. Most people are kind of confused on what to do and staying put. Flat rock has about ten thousand residents and is mostly in wayne county with a small portion in monroe. If you're listening to this in the area and are concerned or need help officials encourage you to call two one one. A couple of quick updates the stories. We've covered before on the show first oakland university and its faculty union. The oakland university chapter of american university professors reached a tentative agreement over the weekend. This was after a two day work. Stoppage that shutdown classes for all the nitty gritty details and find print. The oakland post online has them to read through a link to it in the show notes. Also as danny fester the metro detroit native that's being held by the military government in myanmar for being a journalist. There is a small update stars and stripes reports that on monday a court in myanmar extended fencers pretrial detention to september twentieth. If you remember our conversation with his brother fencer was on his way back to metro. Detroit in may when he was detained at the yen gone international airport. He's editor of frontier myanmar. The military government has charged any fencer with incitement. That could carry three years in prison. There are no details as to what he specifically did wrong or is accused of he has been held in the insane prison sense and told his lawyer he worries. He has cove nineteen prison officials. Deny this the military took power in february and has tried to silence independent news media by pulling their government issued licenses and arresting many journalists. This is a problem in a number of countries around the world. Danny fester has been sitting in prison for one hundred and seven days as of this recording and before we get to our feature conversation over the weekend. Detroit lost a beloved restaurant. Her community advocate and friend. Too many greg mudge died on sunday at the age of forty six. The cause of death is unknown to us as of this recording but we do know it is not covert related. He founded budgies in two thousand eight. I'm porter street at a time. When a lot of people weren't betting on the city greg building nationally renowned deli and wine room and became unforgettable to the local community much was also an avid photographer and volunteered his time at events like ferndale pride as the tributes from friends of the pod and friends of friends scrolled by this weekend. It was clear he was the kind of guy who just did the work and that worked in just up at his business. He was instrumental in making sure. The playground across the street from a shop was together. He made meaningful connections with his restaurant. Neighbors often becoming friends with people that some might call competition and swung his doors open for support when they needed it. Most last couple of years have been real tough on the city. Especially because we've lost so many of those who type people together. Greg mudge was one of those ties. He will be missed. Virtually deja butler assistant director of planning for the wayne metropolitan community action agency. Welcome to daily detroit. Thanks for having me good morning. Good morning so. I want to get into this grant program because i think it's really important to get resources in the hands of people working in detroit's neighborhoods can set it up for listeners. What we're talking about so it is five point. Seven million dollars of the purpose of the fund is to provide grants to smaller grassroots non practice organizations. I'm usually those live by black indigenous or people of color who had historically had the lease access to power is social capital. It's important to remember that when you're talking about institutional systems and things like that people just don't have the same access to resources absolutely. So how is this five point. Seven million dollars going to be put to work. I'm glad you asked so actually. The community leaders and the residents determine how the money's going to be put to work and that is the innovation and philanthropy. i'm traditionally philanthropy has been very prescriptive so they had these identified impact areas in dollar amounts that people had to apply for but with the detroit residents. I fun we provide the funding and then we have the organizations. Tell us what it is that they need specifically in their community so they do the work and we all sit at the table to make decisions together on how those funds will be spent and feels like that makes a lotta sense because over the years i have found that sometimes funding gets directed to things. And you're like how did how did how did that get money by the way this person over here was doing it in the community for a long time. This seems to help bridge that gap a little bit and even looking at the people who got funded. I'm familiar with some of the names for people and organizations who've been doing things in the community for a long time. yep so we figure. Hey the best way to make sure that we're really doing the work to be effective. Efficient equitable is just hear directly from the community. What it is that they need instead of instead of us dictating to them. What we think they need so often the number one thing i hear is it's not necessarily someone's against her four something but there wasn't any involvement with the community and the way that these dollars are distributed and the involvement. You're looking to do it in a different way than in the past. Can you talk about that. Yes so resident. Voice and collective impact is key to the work of the detroit residents. I fun We are actually the first of our kind in the city of detroit to operate on a model of participatory grant making and that basically means that we all come together nonprofits community and find foundation leaders residents we all come together to share power and make decisions on how these funds are allocated spent within the community. We hear directly from the people. What it is that they need and then were able to abuse that input. Use that resident voice. Build that resident voice. I'm so that we're all working collaboratively to improve detroit neighborhoods so over. What amount of time with this five. Point seven million dollars be doled out and kind of what's the strategy with that. Sure so with this five point. Seven million dollars were actually hoping to get upward of ten million dollars by twenty twenty five. The way that the program works is that each grantee is brought on board for their cohort for three years so each year. They are granted up to fifty thousand dollars to do their work on. In addition to their fifty thousand dollar grant they also receive Capacity building i'm technology stipend self-care stipends on other resources that we Kind of get together and decide are valuable having worked with a number and interviewed a number of nonprofit and community leaders. It is a burnouts a real thing like it's hard work. It is an allowed of these organizations are led by people who also work full-time so not only are. They dedicated to their kind of nine of fives. But you know five until you know. They're doing the work in their community. So that burned out israel and we kinda wanna reward them a celebrate feet on the efforts on that they're putting forth and let them know that the work that they're doing is impactful. You know. I've seen those shirts around that say detroit hustles harder and i don't think they're necessarily accurate and i'll tell you why because what i've found is most people doing things in the city. It's detroit hustle slash side-hustle slash night job slash drives uber slash. Takes care of parents. Harder like there's always like the lowest so many hats worn yes with these dollars where these dollars coming from so there are five key donors at this point. I'm way metropolitan community action agency before foundation. W k kellogg foundation the herb family foundation in the skillman foundation and the organization that were you work for for listeners. Really what is your focus and involvement in this so way. Metro community action agency is a human services organization. Our hope purpose goal mission vision is to eliminate poverty across wayne county so we implement over eighty programs and services each year serving upward of sixty thousand people to kind of further that mission. Some of our programs Assist with rent utilities home. Repair fool and other essentials like You know childcare education and the like the role that we play specifically the detroit residents. I fun is unique in that. Where a funder barua. Also the fiduciary and the fund administrator so we put money up towards the five point seven million dollars We also hold the money for the rest of the organizations as the fiduciary and there were the fund administrator in the sense that we are able to create and customize of the grant application by natural reporting requirements and the like so that they're not burdensome on the people who were on boarding a to the detroit residents i cohort to me looking at the materials and the website. Dr f- fund dot org. It's it's it's not just about the dollars but putting in the supports to help build in my mind. These are my words. But how bill detroit's bench of leadership over time and that's another way that the detroit residents i. Fun is different innovative. When it comes to philanthropy we're not just funding projects or funding impact areas where literally funding people and neighborhoods so a key part while a couple of key parts of the detroit residents. I r. a our capacity building so our organizations get a monthly capacity building sessions that are geared around leadership with community development on the building of organizational infrastructure and policy advocacy as well so we wanna build resident voice and being resident power and they increase the capacity of these organizations so as they move beyond the reach of the detroit residents for fun. They're able to attend obtain funding at the local state and federal level. We'll and advocating for policy building and policy change. That is a skill in itself. And i see a lot of people with a lot of good ideas. But they don't necessarily have the background and totally understandable. It's it's a very small slice of the world that used to dealing with policy but it can make a huge impact in looking at things systemically and going aren't working. We make input here. Where can i advocate for. What are things that other people are dealing with to try to get things actually passed as opposed to an actually enacted as opposed to being just upset about it right effort that reason. We may sure that we've contracting one of the best. And that's the community advocates of detroit. That organization is responsible for our capacity building. They do policy work at the local and the state level they're really involved in a lot of advocacy work and as of subject matter experts there and we had them on board with our team providing that capacity building for under detroit residents. I flown sees. How do people get involved. If they have an organization that they want to raise their hand and say you know they want to be considered for something like that. Is there a process for that. Sure so we are in the process of building. That out our goal is to have the next cohort on boarded by on the first quarter of twenty twenty two so by the end of march of next year in a couple of months a by november. We plan to have the application of launched and available for everyone to apply on our website. So the d. r. f- fund dot org. Anything that's going on with the detroit. Residents i fun. You can visit that website or take a look at our facebook page the detroit residents i fun well and to give listeners idea of the people in groups that you've you've granted we've talked about the avalon village on the show before chelsea conduct community organization forced to troy georgia street community collective north and woodward community coalition. Right here near the studio Detroit southwest pride people's waterboard coalition and. That's just a sampling. But it gives you an idea of the kinds of groups that this project is funding so we have a wide range of impact areas even within The this kind of pilot cohort. So we'll see criminal justice we digital access. We see water so everything that is kind of particular and is a specific ask. It needs of these various neighborhood organizations across the city. They're represented through the detroit. Residents i well deja butler from the wayne metropolitan community action agency. Thank you so much for your time on daily detroit. Today i will put a link in the show notes so that so people can learn more. I appreciate you all right. Thank you so much for having me and we are done for today. We're in the final days of our survey daily detroit dot com slash survey to learn more. About what you like. What you don't and a little bit about you so we can make well to some better thing with that. I'm jair stays and especially today. Please remember to take care of each other. We are all connected and we need one another. We will make a better detroit together. Thanks for listening. And i'll see you around town.
Season 2, Episode 12 Our Top Rides at Epcot and Hollywood Studios!
"We found a vote with mickey. We're gonna have some fun rain or sun. Our trip has just begun. The boats whereabout to store go show and may have you like you'll see we're health will go. Hi everybody. i'm sophie. He's mike and brenda and welcome to on the road. With mickey if you're a returning for another adventure with us welcome back. We are so glad you have returned safely and if this is your first episode with us and your new here welcome. It's so nice to meet you. And i'm going to show you the rains today. First up we have our cheddar from the big cheese which is basically disney news snippets and then after that we have our feature topic which is what we talk about for most of the episode and then after that we have our this day in disney history brought to you by me and after that is our game of. Who's who and that is brought to you by mike. My dad a fair warning. I'm almost never wrong when it comes to this game. I almost always win it. And then after that brenda will be giving us a quote from the big man. Himself walt disney. And it's just going to be amazing. So buckle up keep your hands arms feet and legs inside the car at all times. Make sure you're safe. fasten your seatbelts. That good stuff and we will see you on the road. It's time to get going. Let's go hey everyone. I'm mike she sophie and she's brenda. We're on the road. With mickey this's season two episode twelve for march twenty second twenty twenty one and we are continuing our look at our top prize at disney. This week we are focusing on epcot and hollywood studios and we have a lot of fun planned. And i think that it's going to open up a whole discussion about what's your favorite ride. What's my favorite ri-. Why did he pick that ride over this ride. And i just can't wait to see what people think of our selections so poll everest. I wanna passage. I was surprised the and you have that up right there. I don't but yesterday it was sixteen to fourteen in favor of everest. If you can believe it s right it was it. Was they for mentioning that. Because i've forgotten. Look it up so sorry sophie but brendan i. Right they'll sixteen fourteen. So yep ever way. I i see where are following stands than like a one of the one of the post was about the fact and who was at was reston's post about how her mom loves. I know it was somewhat out. Victoria can't post and she said that she that her husband can't ride it because he's too tall so we have to remember that when we're talking about five passage versus ever because everyone fits everest but yes. Some people cannot ride flypast. You're absolutely right. you're absolutely right. That's a. that's a really good point And i didn't even think about it. And i saw her comment and then i forgot all about that as well but But yeah you're right it's it it takes a certain type that's right but you know the real reason though is that you know sophie's just a kid and one of those kids know anywhere i will. Have you know that. I will be twenty in chew and forgetting about that. Oh my gosh. i'm so old. Good one honey. I love you speedy. The fairest of them all anyway old man from the big cheese. Let's get onto cheddar. From the big showy. I saw really interesting article about annual pass holders For walt disney world. And how you can. If you live in the united kingdom not talking about the country kat but the really united kingdom in europe that you are able to buy a walt disney world and you'll pass for the actually twit. I saw a link and it takes you over to the european Page for disneyworld. I didn't actually do it. I didn't actually able to go through the steps And i think that might be. Because of where i am. You know being in the states and whatnot but But i thought that was really interesting. And i don't have if you live in in europe or in the united kingdom and you're able to buy an annual pass roi disneyworld. Would you reach out to us and let us know 'cause it's kinda i'm kinda taken this little bit with a grain of salt right know. I've tried to buy the annual pass in it. Lets me go all the way through. Like i'm going to get it and then at the end it doesn't let me so. I'm wondering if they're having that experience or if they're actually able to follow through. Yeah so if if someone has been able to buy one or get to that point where there were they put in the credit card. And don't or whatever reach out to us let us know. I'm rook curious. You know and i'm also curious to see if this might be a precursor to what might come for us in the states. You know i just i. My will cindy had a thought that perhaps Annual passes would be opened up for floridians to be able to purchase if they don't have one and also may be like people in the southeast. They had the member. They had that promotion last year when restroom. Yes you could take advantage of the promotion because you could drive and and whatnot And so i wonder if maybe the same sort of thing might apply with aol passes. I don't know this is. This is all speculation world. You're in mike's head. Now so i think you should scared texas over some so we can be bordering state. 'cause we drive. There's that water. Just build a long bridge really long bridge. Maybe talk to god having split halfway down the mill anyway back on track. So what are you have. Well there is a new nighttime show that disney is working on for epcot. And it is called harmonious and last week. Testing was done on the way. It shoots later as part of the show. So it's kind of like when i say shoots at water. I'm kind of getting vibes of world of color over in disneyland. Yeah so basically. What we're saying is that they are doing test runs for the new show. And that means that it's closer to coming out and we can actually see what it's all about. Yeah every test they do is hopefully one test less. They have to do because they've got it all worked out so hopefully well and don't forget we covered the new rooms and what they look like. Last time at disney's polynesian village resort and the rooms have been themed after moana and they can be book now for starting a rival july nineteen twenty twenty one. So if you're looking to book. That contact mike at mike at pigs vacations dot com or me at brenda vacation dot com. And we'll get you set up. I have one more thing. If i can add it. 'cause i'm dying over here go four. Oh my gosh so on well on friday. Which when this airs will be the previous. Friday falcon and the winter. Soldier starts on disney plus. I'm dying to see it. I'm waiting with baited breath. Well you know. Falcon and winter. Soldier is marvel series. Of course they've done. This is a series of six apparently six episodes. So if you don't know who falcon them winter soldier. Our winter soldier was captain. America's best friend in the forties in the nineteen forties and then falcon is captain america's best friend today. So captain america. You know he was. He was a war hero. He was the one that punched adolf hitler and then he you know he's been like ongoing but he retired recently and went and started living his life. He missed ball. He was okay so anyway i won't give too much away but it starting and i'm side myself with. Excitement cannot wait so when this airs it will have shown on friday which means anyone listening right now can see it already so exciting i. I haven't seen it. I haven't heard of it. I am not at all a marvel person at all. I don't know anything. We need to have like a disney plus watch party where you walk us through all the all the things we need to be owned my gosh. That's the only problem. Is that for some reason. Not all of the marvel movies are on disney plus. I tried finding the incredible hulk. It was not there and j. again. Has been berating me. Non stop to watch it so that i can watch wanda vision for her on divisions fantastic voyage. We have this to start so that's good. I'm getting so far behind in my disney plus watching. Yeah oh well we. We both are. We still haven't seen ryan the last dragon yet. Haven't seen that yet either. We'll have to talk about that when we see it though. Okay i just had to mention that 'cause so excited i'm glad you're excited brenda. You need to tell us next week what you thought of it. Okay okay. Burma reach out to us on our facebook group on the road with mickey group You to subscribe like our posts. Leave us comments. We love the interaction. We get from our here from our listeners. And and our friends. Because that's what you guys. Are you listeners. Your friends and We're on instagram. On the road. With mickey email us info at on the road with mickey dot com the usa voicemail nine one nine seven nine eighty three ninety You know just find some way to to reach out to and and shoot us. An email leila's tax leave us a comment. Whatever and we look forward to hearing from you so we are in part two of three. This is our top rides at epcot in hollywood studios. I say part two three because next week we are going to look at those west. Coast parks disneyland and california adventure part. And we're going to give our tops top rides from those parks next week. But this week. We're looking at epcot and hollywood studios. I went first last week. So i'm going last this week. Brenda is going. I and sophie is going to go first next week. Yep awesome so friend does. We're starting with kat at number five right just like last time just like well. My number five ride at epcot is living with the land. What the land is a boat. Ride through the epcot greenhouses. Were they have innovative ways to grow food. And they actually use that food at the restaurants at epcot. And i just i just enjoy it i and bunch. I like how they decorate it for the holidays and put their and yes nice. It's a nice with the first time i wrote it. I was very impressed with things like hydroponics and things like that. But i still enjoy it. So that's why you know I got a story. Oh all right so. My friends are friends Joy beth their friends with a virus appear in north carolina. They went to disney on the college program and joy was one of the boat speakers or whatever back when living with the land Was like they had the tour guide. Telling the story of thanks. She was one of those for their is at. That was fantastic. So that's my connection with the land. And i love how The garden grove restaurant upstairs circles around. You can see some of the scenes from the rats that to me is what sells it more days. Plus mickey's garden grill. Yeah a little bit a little bit. Anyway that's my living with the land also. So who is going next today. Is it sophie. Yes it would be me and my number. Five is journey into imagination with figment too. That's great yeah. I really enjoy that right and for the longest time. I actually thought that it was something else. And i was far too scared to go into that building because i thought it was. Something called. honey. I shrunk the audience which i didn't realize was over in hollywood studios. I believe and i just thought that it was like. It's tough to be a bug. But bigger so i did not enjoy that at all but then when i found out what was actually inside that building. I was like okay. Let's go give it a try. And i was so happy with it was such a great ride and the only thing i didn't like about it would have to be the smell part where they make you smell skunk spray. Which is disgusting. You know what it is. Some surprise i think honey i shrunk. The audience was actually that cut where the pixar shorts are now but they had a playground for honey. I shrunk the audience in hollywood studios big aunts and things like that yeah right. I really enjoyed that playground. That playground was fun. My kids loved that one. It was on and the pictures any pictures you took. There were awesome because they. I mean it looks. Oh incredibly real. Yeah that's a great twice. What about you mike. Well my number five ride at had trouble picking my order for these five you know. I probably started stopped a couple of times but my number five reid is test track and i actually like I like the way you build your car now whereas before you didn't you know you'd kinda we're going through all that and everything but But it's a tough one for me. I like it a lot. I was torn between that in mission. space because i have a cool story about missions space. But i'll make that like my honorable mentioned but my number five is test track and I like how fast it goes when you go out in the open air part. I don't like that it closes so fat so much you know but it's a good ride and it's fun and when we built our car I think randy. And i were on one side. And i think jagan is so few. Were on another car and we beat them so that made it like number five status over mission space so there you go down sometimes. I know that. I'm missing doing the car to now that you know you can't cova that's true that's true so you don't come back number. Five little brenda okay. Well i chose this for number four. These were a little hard for me to but i chose frozen ever after and of course it used to be maelstrom and now you ride. Do the wooden viking ships still accept that you go in the world of frozen so I chose that really because of the music. I love the music from frozen. I i when i first saw that movie. The music was magnificent. And then when. I saw the second one to meet. The music was even better. I brought it for the music. Really i hear ya. What about you sophie. What your number four. My number four is actually missions. Face okay why is it four. Well i just. It's weird a lot of the rights. That i was terrified to go on when i was younger actually turned out to be my favorite rights and mission space was one of those rides. We heard all these things about people being sick on and after that was me. Oh my god for a month after it. Oh i wrote it. The second day at opened it was open while i was so excited about it and literally. We wrote it the next afla home and for a month i had to be on necklace. Zine for vertigo. Oh i never wrote it again. I know they changed it to where now. There's a green. I should be able to go in. But i i haven't because i'm you know it affects you when you go through something but a lot of people love it and i'm glad because everyone's different so i am since sophie picked that is your number four. I'm going to tell my story now. Involves it involves our friend river right so fee so i never ridden it. Had no interest in writing at all. I was reading the same thing. I drank the koolade as so no interest whatsoever in writing his ride. 'cause i'm like i don't want if it's got a barf bag i don't want it people having heart attacks and i'm like oh my gosh. Well little river sug was for. She went on it and she absolutely loved that ride and she's like mike and so much fun. Let's go on it. And i'm like oh my gosh. That's four year olds calling me ticket and it was so cool and we rode the green. And we've only ridden the green and we're not interested writing the orange especially after you got sick. I have no interest but it was so funny and she was so folks. Okay so it was her dad neil and her and me and i think sophie was estimate or something and river was like looking at someone else on our row. Who wasn't doing their and she's like daddy. He's pushing his buttons. Like oh boy. A deal was like it'll be okay and it was so awesome. It was awesome. Has like one of my best reid stories ever will makes me feel like a chicken for not writing that feeling that river would really enjoy. Smuggler's run then all probably would probably would but on smugglers ron where an adult was doing. Exactly what rivers. She was having a fit because the person at the engineering spot while some button really me oh boy so anyway mike. Now on my list is frozen. Ever after brendan hobby again. Last week was three out of five. No i miss. I miss it not being mouse jerem. But i i'm like you. I love the music of frozen so much. So i got a whole series of posts about the music you know and how how i thought frozen when i first heard it in a theater i thought this could be on broadway music. Was that good. Seen it on the disney yet on the wonder turns out it is on broadway. Yeah but it wasn't then But i love I love i mean we even did a post. A podcast about the music disney last year like early on and one of the things that i really like is how the the song some of the songs have different meanings like Like do you want to build a snowman is is both you know. It's got like hope and his sadness and it's got a longing to reclaim your childhood. You know and it's just like all that is record one song and it's so powerful you know it's powerful so anyway that That it's a great ride because of the music and also because a lot of is still kind of driven you know I don't like the length of the line that you get no good time sir. I remember this one time with frozen. Ever after jagan uncle randy an aunt sheila and i we were going to go on it and we waited like two hours in that line or something and then when we finally got into the last section like we didn't even get to the boat we got into the room where you board the boats only to find out that the ride was down and they said it would be backup shortly so we ended up waiting another half hour in that line. Not moving only to be told yet not gonna be back up. I'm sorry. I'm it's infuriating but always be nice to the cast members because there's nothing they can do trail and they deserve to be credited for it right. Okay brenda. what's your next one. Ok well my number three is spaceship earth and if you've ridden spaceship earth or if you haven't it's just a calm interesting ride starts in the stone age and ends up in the digital age and it just goes through history and has some special other things you can do while you're writing that our personal i like it. I always write it. That's one of those rights where you always write it every time you go you ride it. I mean yeah. Yep yep ask number three. That's all i can say about that. What about you sophie. Well my number three is your number five and that is living with the land. I love living with the land. And for all of the reasons that you said. But i also love it because it's relaxing it's cool and i mean that trump Wise and the way of. Hey this is awesome. This is so cool that way too and it's education also. I could use it as an excuse to go to disney during school. So long as i ride that ride it's educational. It teaches me science thus teachers some hands for sure and it and it's educational without feeling educational. Yes was so much of so cool about so much that you're learning things you don't even especially if you're younger you don't even realize that that's bleeding into your brain. You know that you just think you're having fun and I think one of my favorite scenes on leaving the land is the house and how it's like. They reminds me of the house from wizard of oz. May to always go did it. Did it did it past that part dalton rocky. Unfortunately we've never run into tornado on yeah but But i really like how The way disney the imagine ears do such an incredible job of painting a picture. And whenever i'm near that. I'm like dude. I can just feel myself living that world living in that time period and having that dirt road up to the house and there's my mailbox and and just just you feel like you are in that world you know. So that's that's why. I like it so cool. I think it's so neat but but it's not on my top five nine ever. It made the cutting room floor though. How what is your number three. My number three is a ride that sophie loves. I hope still loves and that is that is the grand fiesta tour starring. The three gaba gyros. I mean it is such a fun ride is so it's so corny donald donald but it is fun s just so neat and and it's just you see all these things and i. It's just cool so sophie that you'd be like top ride. Yeah used to be like this title or a number. Two epcot was grant. Grand fiesta tour. And and it's still up there. And and i just love it. It's just like living with a lane. it's relaxing spaceship. Earth is relaxing. Cool neat Is just allow fun. You know so and right now before the fireworks reopened it is one of the few places you can go and see fireworks. Oh you're right when you get around to the mexican the mexico city scene and you see the fireworks going off over the buildings fireworks for the day in the air conditioning imply so they help for those of us. That are sensitive to loud noises So brenda thank you so brenda. What's number two on your list. Well unlike my compadres over there who i can tell from his background picture did not pick this number. Two i did. It soared around the world. So aren't as my number two if you have ridden store and it's like a hang gliding adventure through like this seven now anyway. I have to say that when soren was over california i felt like the perspective was much better handled. And i mean of course if you're sitting in the center you're seeing everything perfectly whether you were over california over the world. It was the same. But i mean i can be two seats off center in this one and every i mean leaning tower pizza piece of has nothing on these on these. I mean everything is skewed to this the screen. I don't know if you're right in the middle everything's perfect but if you're on the sides everything's ricca so it kind of it hidden comfort feeling. I used to have as much with the california. But i still love torn. I mean we ride that every time to it's you know it's just so wonderful. The smells and the breeze and the it's it's wonderful. I mean yeah. The only thing i have against it that made it number two was just that weird factor of everything laying on at all. Yeah and we had done a poll. I can't remember. I'll see if i can find it about which was which people like more soaring around the world or soaring over california did you and what did they think. And i gotta find the results. I can't remember. I gotta go look. This is months ago right. I think they like soaring around the world. Better though i think so but let me go. Search i will tell you though that as far as soren goes I used to be real chicken on. That didn't i so fi wrote three I he. I don't know what a show but it was like a situation where i don't know mac year was whacked out or something i don't know i don't know exactly and and it was like i just really bothering me. You know the rye was that. Good that that i just it just bothered me and i was not comfortable on it and but then the first time i wrote it with cindy and sophie. I was able to glance down. And and see that okay. I'm not that high as high as it felt. Like i was and i'm like okay. If something happens and i fall off of this hang glider. Then you know. I'm probably just looking at a broken leg deal with that. You know sure for the listeners. Who haven't gone on it. You do have to be forty inches. So that in mind for the kiddos because the line can get quite long. So you're when you're planning that you remember. This one's a forty inch. Yeah anyway anyway. I can't keep looking for it. You have until i'm done here so anyway. miss brenda. You said that soar was not my dad's number two well. It's my number two. Were twinsies again yet and i. The only reason. I didn't put it as my number. Wine is because because i just like my number one more a but if my number one did not exist i would be very sad but saw would be my number one minute for sure and i have to say that i don't particularly agree with you about soren being skewed based on where you sit i have only ever I haven't it's not like i've sat on the far end of like the far row. So i'm not. I wouldn't know from that angle but from where i've sat which is usually somewhere in the middle or like very close to the metal on one of the side. Rose it has never seen skewed to me. Of course i may have just been caught up in the thrill of feeling like i'm flying. Which is why. I like flight of passage so much because when you described it as a view of heaven flight of passage i have to agree. Flying is like the closest thing i can get to being in heaven. I've always wanted to fly. Which is one reason why every time i ride soaring. I'm always like so. When am i going to get to actually hang glide. You have your whole life in front of you i do i. I want to go hang lighting someday life in front of you. That's what's wonderful Being twenty almost sabine it. What your number two turned out to be. Well i wanna say right off psychic torn. I love and i was like i said everyone listening when we Started recording today. I said brinda said how you doing. Mike and i said i run by brad. The first picture. I good that fit and it was my picture sewing. So sword is number two on my list and i can't find the poll. I think you're right sophie. I think they what was it. They thought soren over california was better. I thought sarin over the world west. Better sworn around the world okay. I can't remember but maybe that gives me a chance to poll again. Do let's ask the question. What is favorite soaring around california or soaring around the world. I personally like soaring around california. I like the golf ball. I like how if you're in a race bot it's like the golf ball is gonna just like pay you right in the forehead smells also orange and i don't i don't seem to notice those on the much around the new version so tell me what you think. Yeah all. they're sending in their comments. Because he's comment is now made me feel a little Concerned can they also let us know if they've seen skewed images are if i have a brain tumor. Well i mean it's probably just like your perspective. You're probably more tuned into the detail. Than i am or can be your brain tumor. You're writing the ride yes always. You're my glad somebody's about without him. curious to know if other people get that leaned. You know. we'll be there april first of the fifth and we'll get out on april second so sophie and i will make it a personal duty to ride soaring around the world and we'll see if we can't sit in one of the edges an or maybe we'll split up. I'll sit on one left size. Cindy sophea sitting in the middle or something. I don't know and we'll see what we can find out as far as i and we'll be sure to wear glasses anyway. Most times very sweet. But if you know. I don't want you to take your time writing your riding. Not enjoy it as much if you're seeing it that way because i don't enjoy it as much seeing it that way. Okay so but i appreciate that. Only i think. I'll enjoy it either way so i will. I know i will. But i'll be looking for that and we'll let you know will report back. Thank you so number two for me with soaring so that brings us to the top dog. Epcot brand top dog is test. Rot wrongly i love way down number five and you have it number one. I wasn't even top five. I love the hairpin turns break testing and when it goes out and just goes fast. I just love the rush. Just okla also a forty inch height requirement for anybody listening out there who hasn't gone yet. Kids have to be forty inches. Adults be forty inches too. So yeah my head. I'll it's recreate there don't ya. I gotta look all that up. Sorry clients if if you need to know a height requirement. Talk to my friend brenda. You know you can't go into ride without it. But i just wanted people to know if they're planning their first visit but you know i just like going fast. I mean so quick question test track or cars land Oh did or springs spring. Certainly there's no comparison while they both cars on our screens. You know i make myself. Yeah you make yourself laugh being gag. One i wanna see radiator springs racers over here on the side of the world. Yeah i landed here anyway. I guess it makes me tick over there. Okay so feet. What's your top dog for. Epcot mine is spaceship earth. Go yeah see. Well i i. It is literally the first ride you see when you get into the entrance to epcot and yeah and as you know daddy. I am a huge history buff and for the longest time i wasn't and i blame elementary school social studies for that. I did not like it. Did not like it at all. It was boring and then spaceship earth. I wrote spaceship earth. And i was like you know what this is actually pretty interesting so not only did spaceship earth literally shape my academic interests as a kid but at the same time it was like going on a huge adventure every time you wrote it even though you knew what was going to happen and you knew what had happened it just felt like you were seeing it over again until finally you get ingrained into your memory and then it's just like going back to all those scenes of the past that you enjoyed looking into and watching them again is the best way to see history in my personal opinion and although i i could just pick one of the scenes from the ride go into that scene and just experience it completely for day. I can't but this is as close as all get to it seen. Would you pick question if i had to pick only one. I would probably go for ancient rome for sure. Yes i was about to say ancient egypt and actually you know what i change my answer ancient egypt because i'm thinking with women's rights right now. Ancient rome is better than ancient greece. But in ancient women women we're actually considered to be equal to men so put me in ancient egypt. We'll go to rome thinking about about dame judi dench how she says that rome was the world's first were my web anyway. I'll see you soon. Julius caesar well well mike we have a drum roll. A number one. My number one ride at epcot is also spaceship birth. Well since because sophian. And i love that ride and we. I mean we would talk about it for months. When she was a little kid. We talked about for months before our next trip but how it arrived spaceship birth and but my my love for spaceship. Birth goes back thirty eight years. Excuse me october october. One nineteen eighty two was day. That epcot opened my first trip to. Kat was the following summer in nineteen eighty three and my grandma and grandpa took me and we rode with two of their friends that were retirees as well and their grandson and the six of us and it was. It was the time when i was finally. I was fifteen that summer. So i was old enough to To do things on my own in his name we rule the to go do stuff in the park in the in the grandparents just kind of took it easy you know and but riding spaceship birth. That first time. I was hooked. You know and and it's it's been like. I mean a years back at one of the pixie conferences. We had a really long really long event where we were talking discussing. Roundtable talks and stuff like that. And and i had a had planned that day to go to epcot and when we finally were dismissed i went over to epcot and it was so busy i rode one right and it was spatial earth. That was the only rider rode. Talk about wasting your money on a ticket but it was. It was awesome. You know so. And that i mean it is what it it's my that's my that's my. Og goes you know. So so so. I mean we love it. Yep no height requirement. Nope everyone go on and just awesome on it so everyone like a time travel machine. You know exactly like dance. So it is my number one choice for epcot and that takes us into part two of our part to three and that is looking at hollywood studios sartor. This was hard or so. We're going back to brenda five on hollywood studios right narran down. The rides at hollywood studios was extremely difficult because we had to leave. You know some really fun favorites. I had to leave fun favorites out. There's nothing i can do about it. So my number five. You've four today is mickey and minnie's runaway railway. I love that ride. It is so cute. It is so well done. I just love going through the the comic scenes with them on the wacky train. And it's just really really well done so the only reason i couldn't put it higher because other things residents but i really enjoy that ride so that's number five. I really that great height requirement. So anyone can go on and it's really enjoyable so keep that in mind when you go and the line is really really long because there's no fast pass right now. It's going to be worth your weight. So that's all. I have to say about that yet. What is your number five so my number five is actually toy story mania. I really really love that ride. It is so fun. It's a game and you don't usually league games inter played into a lot of these rides. I think the only other game ride. I can think of would be the buzz light year ride over in magic kingdom. Obviously that doesn't hold a candle to toy story mania it never will. Yep i agree. That's great yeah so when you did off that ride. Does your arm hurt as much as mine. Does gosh the end. I'm diane on me. It's more my wrist than my arm like workout. So if you're needing to get a workout on your vacation get in that line. That's worth that arm. You know it's funny to me. You know i remember. It wasn't that long ago. When i said the top pick for everyone when they were getting into the park was making a beeline. Yes to go get a ticket fast. Pass for toy story mania because it went so quickly and it used to be. You had to make a choice. Do i send someone to go. Get a fast pass. Rejoice story or do i go wait in line for the jet experience as yeah yeah and and they had to choose and now now it's number five on sophie's list you know and and with good reason so is definitely things change. It's it's amazing how. How impressive hollywood studios has become as a park as it used to be. You know if you spend a half day they're done. We're done ninety more not any more at all. Any of my. Yeah we we only spent like a half day at hollywood studios on our in july trip and honestly it was. It was because of the heat. Yeah but there was some. There was so much more we could have done. Yeah yeah and the heat. The heat limited us so My number five is also mickey minnie's runaway railway and it's I chose it Only because at once. And i enjoyed enjoyed it. But i thought it was really loud so like i said previously if you have someone with sensory issues may get a pair of headphones. Our is it to me. It was to me. It was extraordinarily loud. Okay so great. That's a great tip for people. And i didn't even notice it was loud and my husband worked on a flight deck on an aircraft carrier and he sometimes didn't wear his ear protection so he's everything's hired decibels here which is probably why didn't notice but for anyone out there who needs that information. That's the only drawback. I had to it but it won't stop me from riding. I'll just make sure i wear ear. Buds and great. I love it. it's really well done right It is cool. It is really cool. I still is a great movie. Ride being on. oh yeah. I was looking at senior. Says i for my background. But you know it's dark ride and all. My teachers were slightly blurred. So it wasn't. They weren't as crisp as i wanted. I couldn't do just as put him as my background. We miss it but we you know we have the memories. We do so. Brenda four. Have slashed for this like tire. I number four is slinky dog dash. Oh my dog. Dash is just a family friendly coaster at so much fun and it's over in toy story. Land it's so precious and it's it's awesome but i when i was trying to narrow down you know the top ones it was it was hard. It was really hard for me but slinky dog is worth. I mean like when we just went in december and we were i like one of the first people in we went straight to slinky dog. We were the second people in line so it is enough of a favorite for that and the height requirements. Thirty eight inches for anyone listening but it is worth going straight to in my mind. It's just that when. I was having to narrow everything down. It ended up being number four. So it's it's a really loved number. Four yeah yeah that's it. Well what is your number four sofi. I mean you're gonna get your. I love that like tiresome. But i'm gonna get slashed even more than you because slinky dog dash is not even in my top five surprising about why but for now let's just passed by that fact number. Four is smuggler's run. I hold it in equal esteem with mission space even though it is even though it is a little bit more difficult in my opinion smugglers run but i hold it in equal esteemed emission space and i really it. I want to activate chewing mode. When i go on it next to and for those of you. Who don't know how you based basically what you do. Is you press all the buttons before the cast member comes in to make sure that you're all buckled and all that stuff. You're good so you push all the buttons and then the instructor that will tell you which buttons to press gets replaced by two baca. And of course we don't speak to eat but cool. Yeah that is cool. Cool tim for anybody out. There and millennium falcon is one of those very much like mentioned space. Because i hear that if you're the captain you should not do that role at all if you have article. I sat in the back. When i wrote it but i still not on my list at all. Sorry that for those that can really handle that. That's that's a great choice. Oh a lot of people love it. Yeah you know. That's obviously each a all our lists are somewhat different and it's cool because it just shows that We have our favorites. And that's what matters you know so it's like dislike. I always say there's no wrong answer. Disney and that's the case here and the disney trip is a very personal thing so yeah don't take advice of people who've been try everything at least once so you can make that decision yourself so my number four choice is toy story mania and for much of the same reasons everyone else said. I love the i love the game. I love how it's a computer driven system. So your game. You know the games they use can be switched out just like that you know and you can have like a different experience. I love how there's some skill to it and you gotta kinda really make it work And i love beating sophie. And that's always fun. So hey this sound familiar. Break those plates. I am not your mother. Yes even now because some wine has raised me to be such an djelic child. I always have trouble with that part of that fart. Break this not your mother. You got every ride like out way. Yeah i just love toy surveys fun you know and just like you. Gosh i guess so dire my arm get it's like wow. It just hurts so my score. My point scores usually pretty good but my accuracy. Accuracy score is horrible. absolutely horrible. so it's a lot of fun though. That is a great one. Yeah it is fun. Alright so brenda. We're up to number three on your list number three for me. Is rockin roller coaster. Starring aerosmith love rockin roller coaster. There's only one thing wrong with it. And if you haven't written it yet it's a forty eight inch height requirement. So it's it's one of the. I mean you after work up to it. I can tell you though if you have a family member. That can't ride it and they go in the line they there's a chance they're going to get a little pass that when they're tall enough they'll be able to take their family on with them. Cool that i let s leah was in in our mind. She had finally reached the height requirement but when they measured her. She did not. I mean she was so close but didn't quite measure up so they gave her a little. That said when you come back and you're tall enough for this ride. Your whole family can enjoy it with you for the first time. So that was really cool. Had to say that you're on this stretch limo. You're going through this dark indoor roller coaster with all this neon and very loud music blaring in your ear from aerosmith and the only thing. That's wrong with this ride enough. Disney has not called me back. I called them ten years ago about it. Once it's done and your docking. It needs to then take off backwards and go back through the whole thing again. That would make it absolutely perfect. Yeah except you run into the train. That's limo. That's going back a little bit. But i mean the imaginary make semantics a little extra track. It'd be good yet. That would be really good. Oh my god and it would make it longer. Yes because it is a short roller coaster. That's for sure. yes feel. Short hurt three. Sorry sophie i know you don't like that when very much now not on her list up there near dinosaur am i right. I actually think yeah no i. I don't know. I think if you forced me to choose though i would go on dinosaur before. Would go on that ride. I do not like rock and roller coaster at all. Well what do you like. What is your number three. My number three is the right across the street from it. The tower of terror obvious number. Three number one. It did use to me number. One time changes everything. Yeah so with the tower of terror. The first time i went on it was the exact same day as the second and the third time that i went on it i. My dad hated that ride. I hate that ride. I'd still don't like it. i will tell you though. I love the back story. And i love the loading part you know. Give me the ride through where you're in the twilight zone and whatnot for you. Yeah and then just send it back. You know to the front. And i get off. Now be happy. I don't need the drop but it is so cool you know the parts beforehand. You know as you builds that anticipation too and if you're looking at if you're watching us on youtube and you're looking at sophie's picture right now. During the construction of terror it was struck by lightning. And that's part of the baxter. I mean it's not purposely part of the backstory. It's just coincidence. But it does make it even more interesting it. I've seen a youtube video of someone walking down Down the street approaching tower tear and it got struck by lightning and it was so cool to see a want lowers it is is high is like one hundred ninety nine point five feet tall and it is and it is that height because the faa has a rule that anything two hundred feet taller has to have the little red light that flashes for aircraft. And that's why it is not two hundred feet. Tall is one of the tallest buildings at disney world. Is that one. So and i think i think one of the reasons that daddy does not like it is because the first time we wrote it. He made the mistake of not tying down his camera. So a lot of the ri-. He was focused on the fact that his camera was above his head. Wow when i when we would drop down my camera was going up and when we go up and knock you out well it was right here But it was unlike. Oh holy cow and so i wrote it that one time that time that sophie wrote it three times in a row and then The next year. I wrote at once and this time i left my camera on and i put my eye to the viewfinder and i did. I just held down my my camera. take pictures and i just kept it held down and it took all these pictures and i got some really cool pictures. It was going up and down. You know of different scenes outside so so that was the only way i made it through and i was like you know what i don't like it. That much have to to ride it again. So it is what it is what it is all my list. That's for sure on your list number. Three on my list is slinky dog dash and you know what's funny about slinky dog dash. This is the story. I was going to tell everybody about. Slinky dog dash sophie. And i in cindy we have never ridden it. But i've heard so many people about how much they love. Slinky dog dash that. I have put it on my list at number three. And i'm planning on writing on saturday. April third so if he will be hollywood studios. I am planning on writing it that day. You know we've got to get past that you know and we would have written in july. It was so get there early straight for at my cow. So it's on my list and you know what after we ride it. It might come off my list. I might say well that was a waste or might say out really like it might go higher so who knows but slinky dog dashes on my list number. That's impressive that it made your listen. You haven't even read it yet. Yeah that's great. I just heard so much about it. I'm like i. Gotta i gotta try it so number two brenda. I think i know what you're number one is the number i number two is star wars riser the resistance. I love that ride. I think that's very well done has some surprises in it. I won't mention. But i really really like it. Forty inch requirement on that one. It has a full blown back. Story storm troopers it's I'd is awesome practically a star wars movie. Yes yeah it is really really good. I like the surprise sitting there. I like it too. Yeah it it does. Have everything you know. You've got the field that you are. You know a recruit and you know like you're live in that world and then and then you switch over to the ride part of it and and you know and you do all that and everything like that and it's just yes so i is there assistance only ridden at once so when you arrive once but oh my gosh. If it wasn't the best thing ever that we did that day totally awesome. Yeah oh well. What is your number. Two sophie maya number two is your guys as number five. That is mickey and minnie his runaway. I love that ride so much at first as we were standing in the line for. I thought i'm probably going to enjoy this ride. But i don't think it's going to be worth it to a stand in that line again. I was wrong. I love that right so so so so much and my favorite part is actually the see her in rides very often. That's true that's right. And i know how much mommy loves her. So the fact that she got her own entire section in the ride itself is just amazing to me. I'm so glad she's there. Was well done. Yeah and i love the way that they do the tracks. I love the way that they make the vehicles in the right go it. They're omni movers. they're the same things in rise of the resistance so they can go anywhere in the ride at all and it really helps with the way that the ride is meant to go and i just i love it because they can make you move in certain ways like they can make you dance. They can make it. Seem like you're floating in an ocean all this different stuff and it's just amazing how much they cover in just a tiny ride Yeah and you're right so they wouldn't be able to do all the stuff they do on the ride if it was attract based system. I don't think. I think you're think you're absolutely right on that. So agree with that. Yeah good choice so very good explanation to you. Know that makes me really want to make sure i live it to the fullest. Next time we ride so. I think i think you'll like it a lot more. Even with your earp earbud san for sure with his earbuds. Tannehill like it more. So down there. Mike's number two. My number two is also rise of the resistance and it's so cool and i'm glad that i have it on melissa. I'm glad that we're able to enjoy. And i can't wait to ride it again. You know we need to make sure we get a boarding zone pass and we'll do that for that morning but But it's just so neat to be able to do that. So i just our a cool and you know like we all said it's it's the whole immersion of the story you know so so it's just neat. I'm just glad that it's there and that's able to be enjoyed by so many people so Great tricks right. So brenda top dog. Hollywood nine ever since inception at no other ride is ever been beat anywhere around. Walt disneyworld in my mind. The twilight zone tower of terror. Always been my favorite nothing else has beaten it. It nothing else will. I guess i don't know there's something about it. I love the thrill of going up and down up and down and not knowing what to expect. Because it's different every time and it's i just love it it's wonderful. Yeah forty requirement. Anyone out there listening. But it is so fantastic. And i have a story about tower chair. That has absolutely nothing to do with the ride. But you know how you're standing in line and you just can't help but talk to perfect strangers. That are all around. You which is part of the magic of disney is the yeah. I was in line for this ride. The it was probably the fourth or fifth time. I've ever ridden it. Which was the same day. As the first time i'd ridden it. 'cause i kept writing it over and over and there was a woman in front of me and i being from texas i always just. I just adore like a new york accent. I it and there was a woman in front of me with her daughter and she was full new york accent talking about. I cannot believe you're gaming on this ride. I hit believe she was hilarious and when she turned her turned around and i was talking to her and she goes. You know what really gets me is that i was sitting in my apartment in new york this morning and two hours later. I'm in line to ride this ride. I wish so much. I had gotten her name because i fell in love with her personality was wonderful. And that's one of the special memories is just meeting people from all over. And i just love disney. Disney is the magic disney is the the happiest place on earth lose. That brings all these people together. Yep it has nothing to do with the right. That has everything to do with disney. So two things about tower of terror. One we have the same sort of story. Don't we sofi we to the first time we were writing it. The first time we were in line in front of us was a cute little couple. They they had on their hats. Their ears was wearing his top hat ears and she was wearing her her veil ears because they had they were there on their honeymoon and so cindy solemn and cindy pointed out. Sophie toler say happy. Congratulations and so we did. And we started talking with them and their names are tyler bryanne and they live in edmonton alberta and we took a picture of them and emailed the picture to to them so that they had suicides and bryanne. Ed sophie became pen pals. That is vic. I wish i had to cut this woman's address. Dr and then and i mean it was so cool and we're still friends with them on facebook so we still see. We celebrate their birthdays and whatnot. But the magic of disney together. That's always intended the other thing about tower tear. Sophie and i did a podcast on september fourteenth episode number. Thirty seven and the title of the feature topic was disney attractions made into movies. So the the it's the opposite instead of a movie that they make an attraction out of. It's an attraction that they make a movie out of right and in doing our research sophian. I learned that the tower of terror was the first attraction that disney made a movie out of and it was it was like a barg right and it was like a made for tv movie kind of but it was the very first one that they took an attraction already existing and made it to be. I remember that so cool so said that authors are two little bits of info. Did you know for tower tear sophie. What's your number one. I'm gonna make you guess. Think out all of the rides that i have on my top five list. You've got toy story. Mania smuggler's run tower of terror and mckeon minis runaway railway. What do you think number. One is the one in my picture notes that smugglers run and that's number four number four. What were you top ones again. Read it one more time number five toy story mania number four smuggler's run number three tower of terror number two mickey and minnie's runaway railway to the resistance. You got it. I knew it wasn't rockin. Roller coaster definitely not like the little that and so much. It is so much like well not so much like but you know. The car is a lot like mckeown's runaway said. I can see that for sure. I love rise of the resistance. And i was clapping intentionally. Quiet otherwise i would have been like that i love it love it love it love it love it and the reason why is because like i said when you were talking about it it really is as close to living in a star wars movie as you can get sure and my favorite movies and i have a lot of favorite movies. My favorite movies are the movies that depict worlds that. I want to live in. So that's why. I love the harry potter series so much and i love the star wars series and i love all of them is because they are worlds that i want to be immersed in live in and just so yes. That's why and that's why. I love rise of the resistance so much because it is the most immersive experience you get at disney. Very good very good ride and i will say that at points during the ride. I was actually kind of scared it was. It's a good scared. Because that means that the reid is doing its job and being very realistically immersed -actly and i would love if disney would do virtual queues on more rides because that would be really really great. I don't know what they're gonna do and they end up bringing back fast. I don't know if it'll be the same or different. But virtual q and i have to say that the you know for the audience you can get a virtual q at seven. Am from yours order wherever you are at seven. Am or at one o'clock. And i have to say my last couple of guests that have gotten in on the queue had been at one o'clock so that's the least likely want to get in on but the last couple this week have gotten in on the one o'clock so just saying if you don't get it in the morning try to get at o'clock from inside the park. Your entire party must be inside the park. anyone that wants to get into the virtual q. Yeah so good luck. 'cause it is worth it to right you have to get the virtual queue so it your boarding pass and wait. You're several hours and then go home. Aright cheeses number one is coming up sophie yet. We know what it is. Don't we we do. I do at least because i see it right there seeing his entire list and i've just made it seem like i can't so what do you think it is brenda. I think it's rocking roller coaster. No it's not it's not. It's not you know that used to be. But i know it happens. It happens and if they implemented yours. You know your suggestion. Disney hasn't called you back on. It would definitely be on my top of my list again because otherwise this is so short. You know i love. I love california screaming which is what now what now coaster ride with a purple passion. Oh my god. I'm not gonna love it by one. Let him falcons smugglers. Yeah yeah i love it. I absolutely love how to me even more than rises the resistance. You get immersed in that story because you are a smuggler. You're making a run. You gotta get this. You got the guy tone you how you did. You've got to have your people. I was funny because the first time we wrote it was was july in that trip and And we were the only three in our in our in our Falcon and so. I was captain. Sophie was the gunner. Yeah i think so. And mommy was the engineer and And i'm trying to think or yeah and i was trying to push both captain buttons. 'cause there's one that's like for left right and one for up and down or something and it was considering the fact that there was only three of us trying to side. We actually did pretty good. I think we we actually We weren't half bad so but anyway it was so much fun. I loved it i loved it. It was pretty fun. I think the. I think the part of the that was kind of a tiny bit of a turn off for me. Is that at the end of the ride. The guy said you guys did absolutely horribly. And i should be charging you for the damages. You did to this ship. But since i was going to pay you one hundred something in order for the job. Why don't we just make break. Even so i'll keep my one hundred and you get absolutely nothing and then you don't have to pay for the ship. Yeah something like that but it was cool. That's great yeah. So that wraps up this week's featured topic when lo long i feel like but but it was fun. It was fun fun next week. We're going to look at disneyland and disney's california adventure park and we're going to give our top five list from that. And i that will be really cool. Yeah and then right after that you guys are gone out. That's so exciting. We'll figure out a way to have. We don't skip podcast. it's gonna be great anyway. That takes us to this day in disney history for march. Twenty second sofi. What do you got for us. I have got something very special. That happened in nineteen own nine and this is something that i'm sure miss brenda would be able to recognize and daddy to and if you were around for our nine old men series. The new would probably remember this as well. But on march twenty second nineteen nine the disney legend an animator milt call was born in san francisco. California he is one of night waltz nine old men. He started his career at sixteen in the art department of the oakland. Post enquirer later called the land tribune doing paste ups layout and spot cartoons for twenty five dollars a week call. I joined the walt disney studios at age twenty five in june of nineteen thirty four over the next forty two years. He helped bring to life such classics as pinocchio bambi. Song of the south. Allison wonderland lady and the tramp robin hood and the rescuers and this is a quote from him. Animation requires a pretty good draftsman. Because you've got to turn things to be able to draw well enough to turn things every angle you have to understand. Movement movement which in itself is quite a study. That's for sure. And they spent a lot of time studying movement they did. And would you believe me. If i said i completely forgot to get that tidbit of information and silently went and picked it out like halfway through this episode. You well now. The cats out of that bag weaken gas who. Let's see if so to speak all right. Looks like ongoing. I got three glues. Okay this character has a pet fish and a kitten in this character wants a child. I knew it was from pinocchio tocado. Peto your guests at the beginning. You asked if pinocchio and i said no because it's not the noko. It is okay. So i wanted to make the game fair and in the beginning i saw a page that daddy's book was turned to and it had pinocchio on it so i was like so that's probably gonna be where it's from. Yeah but it's okay utah. so here's a digital. I won't read the whole thing about djupedal. But did you know that animator art babbitt who drew such characters as goofy and the queen from snow white and the seven dwarfs once noted that japan show was one of his favorite characters to animate did not know. Yep well it was. And i didn't think many people would know that did you know because He's not a animator that i know a whole lot about i don't know do so as kind of cool. Yeah all right brenda. We're looking at walk. You want your quote which you got for this. The right here somehow. I can't believe there are any heights that can't be scaled by a man who knows the secret of making dreams. Come true this special secret it seems to me can be summarized in foresees. They are curiosity confidence. Courage and constancy and the greatest of these is confidence. When you believe in a thing the leave it all the way implicitly and unquestionably we allow no geniuses around our studio paul great qutb if somebody ever believed in something a staunchly to for wishing. It was walt disney. Her that is for sure and he was against the grain constantly are visionary to job. Brenda thank you all right. So that wraps us up for this week Thank you guys for joining me. And thank you. Everyone for listening in and We are looking forward to next week already with talking of out the Rides our favorite rides at disney's california venture and disney's disneyland park and And i can't wait to hear what their favorites are. You know already know mine. Sorta maybe but anyway we You'll have a great week and we will see around see on roads the on the roads on the road that one more time i will see food that works by by by.
Tim Anderson-The Difficulty of Actually Doing Something
"Welcome to the tiny logic. Podcasts where we have conversations with those on the frontlines of the tiny house. Revolution name is adam. Gary clark twenty fifteen. I created a three hundred dollars housing opportunity myself and five other friends in offering tiny community. How since then tiny holes and take over my life it shows for the title of the talk shopping get us all find information about the work of tiny laws had kind logic dot one time. I gave a tour of my tiny home community to some new friends. I showed them some ducks. Show them some painted. Rv's a couple of solar panels and they were very impressed. You think this place is cool. I said you should see my friend. Tim's place in alameda. It's five times as big and exponentially more interesting About an hour later we showed up at what was known as the alameda maker. Farm is an epic place that has since spawned three other maker spaces where off grid permaculture. Tiny home style playfulness. It's happening on this random saturday afternoon. We walked into the secret compound. We tiptoed over roaming bunnies and pigs wrestling in the mud. Next two chickens and ducks milling around There were all these interesting people of all ages deep in conversation. Some were slow cooking meat in macgyver options or slicing potatoes with salvaged. Fast food equipment. There was a group of computer nerds huddled around a laptop in one corner deepen their project. Too busy to even notice our amazement. These very tall llamas that were fast approaching us looking for a snack. We walked a little further past various weird building experiments past the refrigerated box truck full of produce and baked goods rescued from food. Waste streams that. Tim and set up This is a tiny house prototype. Jay shafer been working on when guy tells us Jay shafer the godfather of modern the modern tiny house movement. He loved that place but my favorite part of that little spontaneous tour was when we got to the corner of the lot. We walk past the naral of welding equipment and sculptures and there with his back to us as the sun was setting was an old man sitting in a rocking chair just jamming out on his own. Monica playing like the sweetest melody totally unaware that anyone was listening. I wanted to chat with tim anderson because he's done more tiny house experiments in the bay area in more places than anyone i know. He's battled or navigated code enforcement and five different municipalities to my count. And if anyone has good practical advice on how to live weird and cheap in the big city and get away with it. It's tim anderson. I consider him the yoda of tiny house living. And i'm so glad that this conversation was recorded. Because he's such a creative and dynamic thinker that it's it's sometimes hard to catch all of the rich ideas and concepts that come out in real time. This is definitely the type of conversation. You may wanna listen to a few times to my knee insight. So buckle up. Get out your google and you're not pat. I could tell you tim. Co-founded one of the pioneering companies in three d. printing z corp or that he is known as one of the most prolific writers on. Its struggles but i think the following quote that i found online really sums up. Who tim anderson is. I was living in a student. Run machine shop at mit it was an anarchist. Utopia where you could just show up and tinker. I was making a robot named gogo that painted oil paintings. One day i was wandering the halls of mit picking through junk piles and i ended up meeting people in the basement of building thirty five. They were doing some research on three d printing and they needed an electronics guy. I said i was one. They came over to see my painting robot and then they went their merry way. Then i had the revelation. Gee i should follow up on this. Because i could do the same stuff i was doing as an artist. Call myself an engineer and get paid. That's how i spent three years as a gnome inside a three d. Printer tim anderson garrett. Clark i'm the patron saint of Tiny houses in West oakland so. I've been curious. I've heard that you were involved in the early days of of Three d. printing technology. I don't know if you wanna give us a little bit of your your origin stories. What were you doing mit. Well i'll make a long story short. I built a three d. printer company out of junk with the help of some really good. You know really smart hardworking and Or they might say. They built a three three company. With the help of this crazy. Crackpot guy which would be me Then after that helped Within struggles. I did a couple hundred struggles at the time. It was most of the whatever it was. most of. The traffic was on my content while 'cause i had a big backlog of projects that i needed to document and finish and now like Like a lot of people found out that the planet doesn't have infinite resources and so like the urge to just make technology because it's cool. And because i hope somebody'll think i'm smart You know that it's like oh. Let's figure out a way to live within these finite resources. Let's i wanna learn to live in a way that i would want other people to live. You know because like you know we all we all see others. That's our mill mirror of ourselves. So it's like i. I'd meet a guy and he had a ponytail. And i think to myself gee this guy really. He's just like thinking about himself. Way too much and then i realized that i had a ponytail. I'd better cut it so so i think you're touching on your i get a sense from from knowing you that you have a deep commitment to sustainability and and like you said creating systems where people can live in and meet lighter on the land. But i don't want to put words in your mouth. I'm curious what how you got into tiny homes. Wh how how that bug got a hold of you what. What was the the starting point for that. When did you learn about the concept of living. Well as a little little background of the setting where we are where we're at we're at my farm on the delta birds singing and Were sitting under a canopy. it's The first is this bay. I may second may second may second and The climate is perfect. And there's no need to have a building here like people here for thousands and thousands tens of thousands who knows they keep push back you know. How many eons people lived here and a house to them with a canopy and maybe a canopy bed right quivalent of a big dome tent That's what people lived in because the climate is so fantastic. You wanna be out in it. You know that's where life is so you know. We're we're transplanted culture. Here from you know places with really severe seasons. And so like if you're in michigan or something and you don't have some kind of plastic igloo to hide in you die. You know. there's all these things that happen in other places and we're kind of like the japanese culture like when the japanese moved north. They're still wearing a bathrobe and sandals and living in a paper house right and they have to have a lot of hot tubs. Have a heater under the table. And do these adaptations. But it's not a. It's not an arctic culture. Right just a riff on this a little bit more. Go to the the native american museum in dc which depending on which door you go in because tribes refer to themselves in different ways you know. It might be the native american museum or the american indian museum anyway there. There was a great display. On how the The apaches right. Which are now you know about Down in mexico right on the mexican border how they were in arctic tribe. And so they speak. I don't know what an athabasca language. And they have all of these artifacts so they had this display of here are the artifacts of arctic tribe. And he you know of of an of at athabasca arctic tribe and. Here's the the artifacts of the apaches. Looks like they've got the you know the boots the re curve bow you know the ways they cut their clothing turns out. It works great in the arctic and in the desert so anyway that's a good example of culture moved to a new place and it was a good fit whereas here we're in california everybody's paying you know god loads to live out here and they're being forced to pay four hundred bucks a square foot. You know seven hundred bucks a square foot to built to do to by just like look out reg fan right rice per square foot. What's the cheapest thing. Well that's that's bait for a bidding war but that's the that's the bottom right that's cost to buy. And that's you know. Cost to build cassettes sets the floor of cost to buy so affordability was a big a big reason for you to look at a tiny homes to start thinking. You don't need it right. You know Like sleep outs. You know there are a lot of bugs the beautiful climate for most of the year. You don't need a roofing for the other part. You don't need walls it's just a home. Yeah i mean. I remember how well i have a house at all extreme. Yeah that's pretty extreme. But yeah i see your point i remember. I remember once you told me about about trailers. And how am i think i think kinda ties into what you're saying about about the climate but that they are these instant there these existing homes and i was telling you about. Oh yeah what did i get a trailer and then chop it. All up and then rebuild it. And you're like that's so stupid you've got a house right there and you don't need much beyond that because like we're in northern california and the climate's pretty accommodating. There's so many blogs whereas like i'm gonna make myself a tiny house and live debt. Free look. I got this old trailer. I'm gonna cut it and that's the end of the at the end of the block. That's the end of it because they got it a trailer and then i suppose you got fancy you could if you could find a a craigslist you could say like you could see their ad for gutted. Can ham trailer must sell nearly there. Yeah and in the meantime they've been paying rant for their. How for their their you know for for their apartment and their trailer and make an godawful mask is nothing looks worse than a half destroyed trailer and it's got all the systems in it but poor people don't need to do this. You know this is for the this is for the class insecure falling bourgeoisie. The pet you know to get into tiny home. Yeah i mean like a poor person will just buy an rv renault. Though by a trailer they will live in a trailer park right you know. And what will they do. They will buy a nice used one. And it'll have all the systems They don't need to spend a year their life paying double the rent to make some kind of she thing out of you know recycled chicken coop. Would you know rusty corrugated stuff. You know the reason they have to do that is because of classes security right. It's it's a it's a it's a status display. It's like no. I'm not trailer trash. i'm. I'm still middle class. You know just like it's a little jewel box house. It's like look how fancied is no i. I want to do it because it's better. You know. I definitely got wrapped up in that for sure will. You're very classic. You're you're you're very class secure. You've got a great education. You got a huge social network. You got tons of skills you know. It took me a while to get there though. I think but anyway class class class position. You know you're you're the intelligentsia. Your children could be president of any country class. Reproduction is the essence of class. Right Yeah is not what it's like. The probabilities of your children ascending to some job right and hereditary like classes hereditary privilege or hereditary disadvantage. Right so you know a fail son. You know fail sign or a bad seed here and there. That's not that that does not that does not disprove the existence of class as a as a mechanism. Right right right right. Yeah let leftism left leftism. That's really trendy we're going to get. Everybody wants to know about leftism. Okay yeah that's left. As i think we're going to go. Your leftism always always been baloney. I looked at the history of it. Yeah and it it. It never meant rich versus poor. It always it was always a manipulated concept used for for for you know for for struggle. It was like. Oh it's the it's the lower house versus the upper house right house of commons house of lords or was the the you know the rabble you know th the the rabble of the orange garter versus the rabble of the green garden like in in in those innumerable twists and turns of the of the of the toothy intestine. That was the french revolution right. So it's just part of this like it's always political abstraction kinda thing. Yeah i mean what what what you know what we should want it to mean in the united states now is the two humps of the wealth graph. Right right which you know. It was sort of a normal distribution at one time and then it got cheaper to would ever do. Labor arbitrage import everything from china and then the rich people own walmart and the poor people worked at walmart drove on potholes past. You know ruined factories to get there and now we've got now we've got a really distinct to hump class system like you can break down further. You just can't look at the stats without seeing this. Dromedary let's do the divergence. So that's what i mean. That's what i won't left and right to me. You know left and right on the income graph right right right right right but that's to nobody wants that you when you you at some point you left. Mit i'm guessing. I don't know your your your starting point to getting into the bay area. Okay but but so. I'm curious about that. But did that involve your awareness of of not needing a home and just using the the beautiful climate in in the form of some. Now i was. I think i was born really simpleminded that way. Okay like i before like i was. Why was i able to spend so much time on three d. printers back then. It was because i was living in a car. On vassar street you know and and was fantastic. Vasser's vassar street. it's unseen cambridge. It's it's it's a like a it's probably not in does that industrial anymore. But it was kind of you know a ratty street behind mit okay. And when i moved out there ninety one there were like store. Boarded up storefronts in in central square. And the the escalator at the t station still had wooden steps while. Yeah yeah i i went to. I went to college in boston. And i lived. I lived I lived in dorchester for a couple years and So i was. I was very near inman square. But i would walk around harvard yard and your school. You went to tufts emerson emerson. Yeah wow. that's a liberal arts school. Oh yeah yeah yeah. Yeah very you transcendental. Did they teach you there. Oh that's that's Waldo emmerson is a transcendental. Is that right. Yeah notorious this. Oh he's but like if you wanna read his essays on small town government okay you know. He was a whatever vaporous he you know. He was a diaphanous spirit like when came to many things but he had really clear things to say about. You know count government. Yeah that's interesting. I think stuff done. I just remember that. He was pretty interesting. But i also want to say that our school was named not after him. But some other guy named like johnny microwave company. Think an off brand have to look into that a sonic just bringing me okay. So you were so you were sleeping on your car in the nineties way. Before van life had even become an idea in somebody say nobody had ever thought of being a bum and sleeping car. Then it was like and i heard i heard they were still working on the equations. I heard you. Somebody told me once that you. I think luke told me once that you You would camp out under your desk in mit league. You sleep on your desk to just save money and be more effective. Mit is fantastic. Did you go to some events there. I hope not really. Oh man you should go back. Go back in january and go to a bunch of events. Okay yeah it's a it's an. It's a really amazing place. Yeah They sup- re like like these whatever prodigy misfits from all over the world And a bunch of koreans normal koreans who went to high school in korea. Uh-huh that's who's at mit They think it's a party school. That's fine Yeah hundreds and hundreds of clubs Really welcoming place and if you want to work on some projects you know you can sit in on classes. You know if you if you're curious and wanna work on stuff I don't know. Maybe i shouldn't be saying this. 'cause all all the all the of the world going to go there so you so you were tinkering on three d. printing and then how did how did you get. How did you get to the bay. Why did you come to the bay. Well my kite surfing buddies They they got. Phd's and moved out here and started started a company and recruited me and asked me what job i wanted. I said pro bono nightwatchman and that's and so then. I came out and i lived in there. You know basically lived at their machine shop. Because that's what i was doing at. Mit i was living at and facilitating the student. Run machine shop at mit and You know or you know i spent. I can't keep track of the time line right. I spent so many years living in my car. You know like i you know. I was in minnesota fixing cars. You know getting a bit of salvage auction. F- painting them and fixing them and selling well in january in minnesota when the snow is all chirpy no as underneath a you know like on the chirpy hard snow. You know black snow. Anyone who's from their knows about the chirpy hard black snow and i. I don't know. I dumped a bunch of like gasoline on my face and gasoline really stings your face like it doesn't really hurt you anywhere else but at least for me when i get gasoline on my face which i really wish was never again. It really stings. It's like subzero. Gasoline is on my face. And i've got my you know. I'm trying to turn a ranch with my frozen fingers and i'm laying under that i and and i thought to myself you know there are other places in the world. Yeah so i. So i drove. I drove out to boston and Ended up with was going on in. January in boston was like mit. They just have classes stop and they have thousands. Yeah stay safe to save thousands of events. 'cause one hundred clubs can hundred and fifty clubs and a whole lot of departments can put on a lot of events so i i kind of studied. Mit yeah to fascinating place. So you didn't you wouldn't actually japan interest actually because like in japan. Everybody's really active. There's tons of clubs. Everybody wants you to join their club. And then everybody is just learning skills. Neil skills scales. Everybody's like working on their skills all the time and hand. Mit's clubs clubs and skills so you you e- blossomed in that way at at mit would you say it was. It was the right place. It was the right place. I mean i got there in one ninety one or something And this was Run up on the gulf war gulf war one lot of big protests going on there and there was a recession like i wanted to get a temp job and i was like manpower. Kelly filling out forms. Is there for like an hour. And their phone didn't ring. It was like oh you know. They're they were laying off their own temps right so it was a it was a it out. There was a it was. It was a deep recession deck digital equipment They just like fired like they've gone out of business or whatever they just fired like two thousand employees. Two thousand engineers. That's a lot of. That's a lot of you know middle class incomes. Whatever you know nerds never know what class they're in but you know that's that's a bunch of people with a lot of money that were supporting whole sectors of the economy. That just like suddenly were broken needed to i guess move west. I see so you so you moved. West started got involved in a startup. basically and you were the nightwatchman as well. Okay so okay kids. Here's how you have a career you go to the you go to the you go to a depository library. This is where they have the government documents. And i'm saying this to you because you know if you don't have to use a computer everything's better see. Go there and you talk to the reference librarian. She's gonna be so happy to have some human talking to her in this library. And say i wanna know. I wanna look at the department of labor statistics. salary data for different trades and locations. And i i'd been you know fixing cars. And so i i did that and i looked at At the time The most money you could make in the country was As a dealer mechanics make more than self employed mechanics People who paint cars made more money than People are fixed them then. People who fixed cars and The highest pay for that was in denver. Denver painting cars and denver was the most you know. These are averages. The you could make. That was the best place to work on. Cars painting cars and delve denver. And the reason for that is. It's a big city in On the edge of the rust belt right so the rust belt is well. It's where all the factories got closed from. Whatever offshoring all our industries but it's also where they put salt on the roads so then the cars roster rest away so they're bunch of salt free states so you could get you could buy high mile cars with son oxidized paint for cheap there. Give them a paint job and a car with a perfect body. You know the you know somewhere there. Salt on the roads. you know. it's good whatever it's so that's why they were so much money painting cars because that's where the prophet was. Okay so i looked also looked. Okay what else do i like to do. I like to build electric circuits like to program. Computers what are those pays like. Okay well in in in In the boston area. So at the time i was in saint cloud minnesota fixing computers with my own tools for five bucks an hour. Okay yeah wow. I mean that's when i had a job you know. They paid me hours. You know when. I was doing for myself curse. You know if you're not good at business you can lose money in anything. This is in the nineties. You were fixing computers. Eight eighties eighties nine. This is like that. That's what steve jobs and wozniak were doing where they were doing it in central minnesota. Minnesota's got a sue a really good educational system and a lot of really smart skilled hardworking people and let's just say skilled hardworking people because people are smart everywhere And skilled worked paid little very little. They're like whether you're doing it for yourself or for somebody else and then Anyway so i wanted to go to boston for other reasons and so they're skilled skilled wages. They're pay not pay nine bucks an hour. Unskilled wages paid seven bucks an hour whereas in california it was more like you know eighteen for skilled and like four for unskilled right right and my theory about that is like a lot of low. Low wage immigration It pushes down the low. You know the low wages at the low end and also it increases the demand for managers engineers. The other you know. The other members of the team That you need in the mix right because the whatever the the production factors consume each other and the scarce factor gets you know gets more expensive So so okay kids you know. Look at your job. Prospects look at the wages and look at the ridge. Regional differ in. They've they've projections. This information is out there. You don't have to go ended on bankrupt to try and explain to the world with voltaire was really trying to say it may be a joyful beautiful wonderful thing to do. But you're going to need you know you're going to need to buy some insulin or something and that takes money and to get that you need a job. So i'm always curious. How did you get your financial security. Because i'm assuming you've got some and i'm assuming it had something to do with your genius around being Involved in the early Technical technological developments of three d. printing. Because you've been able to buy a lot. It's more important in that than that is that i limited my investment in crypto afford to lose. Yeah and i did lose it because you know even though we know electric car. You know like crypto. Let's just say for electric cars. Say we we have. It's a sure thing we gary. We're guaranteed that electric cars are the future. Well that doesn't mean if you buy an electric car. Now it's going to be worth ten times as much you know in twenty years. Don't it's going to be worth nothing right So any given crypto token we now know right. The chances of anyone crypto token going two zero is not almost one hundred percent right. So i just happened to have the wrong crypto and then also there just so many anyway so what you gotta do is a thing called kelly betting okay. This is where you this is. This is the mit has blackjack team. And i learned it. learned it from them okay Oh yeah i remember. I read a book about the mit. Blackjack team bro. Bringing down the house talking there was there was a hollywood movie. I think they were getting punched in the face and falling in love and stuff you know. They took an interesting thing and had to like i have. I guess i should watch it. And then i can try and figure out who of those characters were the ones who were supposed to be falling in love and getting punched that you knew you knew those guys. Yeah yeah they were town show up. Yeah you learn. Go to one of their meetings. Learn card and card counting and if you liked it and we're good at it then you could go and are you telling me that's how you got your your well known by this island about kelly batting okay. Kelly betting in blackjack. Let's say you a card counting system that gives you a two percent advantage. Yeah right over the house or you know what a big takeaway from this. Be the house right. But that's a game where you where the where the advantages can be known so. Just simple card counting. Let's say it gives you a two percent advantage. I don't that's that might not be over the house that might be over the other players so given that two percent advantage the question is how much should you bet on each hand and in where they played with their system the right number seven percent okay of of you know you got you. Know you've got twenty grand so you bet What's what's seven percent of. Okay let's do ten grand. Seven percent of ten grand is seven percent of ten grand august. One hundred bucks okay. That right sounds right k kids. You gotta learn math so you can be a technocrat anyway if you if you bet less than seven percent in this with this advantage in this system if you bet less than this amount it takes you forever to make money and if you bet more than that A bad handle no will wipe you out so you. So the reason. I didn't lose everything on crypto It's because i. I did my you know simple-minded version of kelly batting where i didn't that money i couldn't afford to lose. Okay but crypto wasn't around. No no the these these. These great opportunities will come up all the time. Yeah right so don't put out. Let's call it modern portfolio theory right. Okay just don't put all your eggs in one basket. Yeah right and now. I'm now i'm old right. I'm i'm fifty five or something. Yeah so that means my by risk tolerance market volatility. Anyway you just you know your sure thing is not a sure thing yeah right and so just you know you know you. Investing is gambling. And i just managed to not lose everything in a bunch of booms and crashes. Okay so that's the important thing is like you know because you hand somebody a million bucks. They're not going to have it in twenty years. You know yet. i'm twenty million. They probably won't have it in ten years right so for all you kids right. Just you know you're wondering about how you're going to get all this money right. Everybody wants to help you get rid of it so to not get rid of it. You know what this isn't just people who get windfalls right. How much money in american have right. It's negative right like they have access to four hundred dollars right. Yeah but half of them don't have access to four hundred dollars right yeah. They're just living that close they. They're spending all the money. They have not just all the money they have. It's all the money they can get like. People are listing their assets and their listing credit cards. That's the opposite of asthma. Right right yeah. Why ability okay. So let's fast forward. You're you're in the bay for a bit and you so a cliff notes is that we know that you have tried to legalize some form of a tiny house. Situation done many different iterations in five different municipalities. And that. that's like the main my main at your nearest actions jurisdictions okay yep and i came across your brilliance in in your oakland experiments Which some of. Which were your experiments while i was a part of yeah But i i don't know like i'm curious i wanted to start talking about Bellina so i don't know where that was in the timeline now believes doesn't exist. There's no such thing as there's no way to get there or a place in the north bay. But now but i rule of beliefs club did not talk about this. Yes oakland's where the fun is that. He saw black panther. Yeah you thought that building that he lived in high rises by bart station. Okay i was seeing that. And i was like. Wow what a great locations like. He's like fifteen minutes from like so many high paying jobs. Yeah right yeah and at that time already. They'd already like. I don't know like a third of the like in that while they were making that movie. Probably a third of the black people in an oakland somehow got convinced to leave. Oakland right spelled gentrified. Right what what what did we use displaced or. They didn't leave. They just ended up on the streets and encampments seventy percent of the people in cabinets or black but black men. Yeah she's being male is a good strategy. If you're homeless. I guess okay so so but i'm still curious. Oh okay so you you. You're in trouble now in oakland. I am trump. i am an adult. I am in trouble. And i i met. You are our site that is in trouble now. Started because of a site that got shut down with luke. Yeah the triangular lot Across from american steel. And that's that's where. I ran into you start. Let's where i met you. Yeah In a ged zik dome with a rocket stove. Yeah yeah and And you were involved with another lot nearby that which was kind of wrapped up in our in our. We were highly logical. But you were trying to do. I saw the. I saw the tiny home Youtube videos years later. I saw you zipping around in a forklift. And you guys what what that video purported to say was you guys are trying to build a tiny community right is that what. What was the background of. The of of post works in in oakland Post works well. You know everyone can look at fair companies curse first and dirksen that sounds. She is tireless documenting tiny houses. Yeah and she did this. Great in depth long-form you know tour of Lucan heather's village and One of the things they showed. Her was composting toilet. Did they know. Yeah yeah they get. They did and Some traffic analysis thing told the local news that there was pay dirt to be had And then they went and and they put their pu bucket on and then local. Newscasters say they had me until pu bucket and that got a rating spike and then the The media goldrush industry Just pounced on it and Was the guy some some some journalists whose previous had been. He'd made his career with the scoop. That is uncle poodle. Trying to get custody of honey boo boo. He showed up. he showed up With no facial muscles and a in a media crew to To take desperate to get some footage of this pu bucket and there was well. No i mean that's and then he called Then he called to tell you to make it even more spicy. He called everyone in city in oakland city hall and said You know or what's your position on the city of visiting this tiny house village. What's your position. On the city of victimless. You know you know. He spent whatever made phone calls. They are his staff of bangolo ryan's or whoever do it so that he could make his story more spicy. Because then i don't know what you make on a new. Do you know that. So many can you make four hundred grand on a new story. No i mean the they this guy from you know they brought out of. He was hanging by his toes in some cave and they brought him out a cold storage. No no no. This guy's uncle poodle and honey boo boo right. That's the that's like a geraldo type. That's like that's like a mass shooting you know. That's that's real money there. I don't know. I mean i probably had a salary with some news outfit. I'm guessing i mean what's what's his name this guy. We won't mention local. Cbs he did the exactly the same thing to our thing in alameda right. It's a great strategy like if you wanna wreck somebody's project and make a few bucks on it right okay. Well before we get into specifics of datum of what do you have the duty to inform the public. No i this is actually from us. This whole podcast is for myself. This is just like answering my my own curiosity. 'cause i've never asked i've never heard like what was in your brain when you first got involved with with the site with luke. I'm going to reveal my secrets and it's going to destroy my life so i hope you make some money off it. Yes if if any money comes from this episode or anything following you will you will get a percentage holy cow. I'm making that commitment here down. But what what what what. Precise percentage kids negotiation. You gotta learn this. The scale now turns out just to just to lay it out for you I only want the orange peel. Adamantly wants the seeds so we're gonna divide up this orange hair and we're going to have to just throw the juice away. This is from the standard textbook of negotiation. Getting now. what's it called getting to. Yes getting to yes getting to yes. Yeah turns out in every negotiation. You're in it'll be just exactly like that. It's like well. I only want the potato peels. While i only want the dirt that gets brushed off those potatoes i guess we'll just throw that white nasty partway right right right. Yeah you'll see that you'll see that your whole life that's I i've been listening to the what's his name. Chris voss the the hostage negotiator who has a a class on on negotiations. Yes like a bit. He's like a business consultant. Originally sell the tapes of rabbits being tortured but he talks about. He talks about black swans or things that That the two sides don't know about elements that the two sides don't know about like the orange juice that could be beneficial the talk enough and trade information of they could realize. Oh we're talking about divvying up this orange and there's juice that we were going to just throw away but if we hold it and then sell it we can both split the prophets of that and maybe our negotiation about the seeds and the peels lightens up But you have to put to get to that black swan or that. On known a piece of information that is relevant to the to the negotiation you have to have communication you have to like listen and trade and ask clarifying questions. So when the fbi was holding all those people in as hostages in texas and then they decided to kill them all with flame. Throwers and poison gas. You're talking about waco. Yeah yes so. What would what was he doing during this. Yeah i don't know if he was involved in that won't negotiate with the fbi told them not to kill seventy people like the biggest mass killing. Wasn't i think that was our biggest mass murderer in the country. Wasn't it biggest mass mass killing. Yeah that was an interesting story and you were at the time. I think that was our biggest mass. Killing was the the fbi doing a massacre in texas. Yeah and we'll hang about it. It's interesting you bring up the the colts in the compounds. Because i think that is a big thing that people think about groups like like the ones that you and i get involved in now. I think he's israel. It's just visceral. But yeah i get conditioned response. Yeah people are like. Oh that that compound. That's not. That's not what i'm used to. It's it it's maybe it's contagious right. When you so got hair like that here that could be lice. That could be played. You know that could be bubonic plague someone with bad hair there what you know. Get away from them. Don't touch them. you know. Get someone else to touch them with clubs. Very them just evolution. So let's go back to. Let's go back to oakland. So tell me what what were what was what was your hopes for that space because we know what we we haven't really talked about what happened to crash those dreams in a way but what was the. What was the intention there for that space for you personally. Well you know it was just like it was just the inexorable logic of logic. Yeah okay which is like. I want to be in this climate right. It's like land costs. You know at the time land cost forty dollars a square foot. Right and buildings cost two hundred dollars a square foot and inside a building. It's not as nice. It's nicer to be outside right. It's nicer to be outside than inside and it's cheaper. Oh being right so why buy cheaper land raw land and then moving structures that that job. Let's go shopping with the cheapest place. Oh this is the cheapest place like. Is it outdoors in a beautiful climate. Yes it is okay and then and then kids. Here's the most difficult idea to ever have. It's the idea of actually doing a thing. Okay like kinsmen on that doing it and then it being different and then running up against known as like. Hey somebody ought to. It's like why don't they you know it's like why don't you know it's so you're saying that it's going to actually do it. It's like i just did it right. And then like i made the call. Yeah i'm gonna. I'm gonna rent your yard you what. Why are you saying that the idea of actually doing something. It's it's because it's it's just like the next. It's the next step right. So big trouble right so What was it descartes. Kojiro zoom right so like Logic logic doesn't lift rocks right muscles lift rocks. Okay and so descartes trying to understand the human right. So he's got this. He didn't really he really didn't want to say that. The soul is the function of the body that we're meet machine and that the spirit and the soul and the character and the person that this this is all just like wobble patterns of you know some fluky weep meet machine. No he wants it to be like an immortal immutable. You know With the weird supernatural thing right outside of nature right not the functions of a meat machine so So he basically he said it was an accident that your immortal soul would be doing the kind of the same things as your meat as your meat. You know as your human house your you know your your human vessel right going around in the material world doing material stuff and it just happens that your your soul is thinking about hamburgers at the same time as your corp. Existence is thinking about hamburgers breath but he could never figure out how you know he. He couldn't figure out how your soul would ever make a muscle move right. It would just be kind of an accident. It's just like harmonious. Your soul is harmonious with your body and your muscles kind of move when your soul feels like it whereas now we're you know we're all engineers and so we you know if we're lucky. We take philosophic logic at the same time like this is what happened to me. I was taken to fill a philosophy logic class at the same time. I was also taking an engineering logic class. Cool and i was building circuits right and the logic is the same Except engineers have no use for syllogism. that's computer programmers. They use syllogisms. Legitim- syllogism is all men are mortal socrates is a man therefore socrates is mortal right aka. Stereotypes okay ak the inductive fallacy. Okay right you set theory right you know you will. You can misconstrue it a bunch of different fun ways. Okay but we're syllogism. That's the greeks. Were all hung up about syllogisms. Sura going with the oh engineer with engineering engineering the output. The output is a voltage or a current. It's do or not do it. The light bulb coming on the motor turning zero or one right. So that's engineering. Logic does not have the mind body problem or great because he engineering. The mind is the body okay. Robot does with the robot does and and you know any any supernatural abstraction of it is optional right whereas So where does this get you. You're you're you're sitting there in your zero gravity chair with your goggles on and your thing has crashed. And you're just sitting there waiting for the thing to rebuild and you're thinking to yourself. Hey i should get a hot dog. Stand and i can. I can buy hotdogs for five dollars. A pack and i can sell them for a dollar a piece in their six hot dogs in a pack so i can make a dollar on each one of those hot dogs can meet people and maybe i'll fall in love with one of them and and and i should. Yeah that'd be cool and then you think that's the logic there and then this next thing that i almost accidentally did said was active next. Brilliant insight the brilliant inside of actually doing it right. Yeah and that's gets dangerous. Well no it's just an additional insight. Yeah the additional insight from just idle dreams about doing something and then the actual doing of it. Yeah and now. You can live a more daydreaming. Way where you just are constantly doing the experiments and then find out all kinds of weird practicalities that you know if you you know anyway. Just just kids like the idea of actually doing so. The brilliant site was to actually do it right. But you'll do it naturally. Like to a tiny village. You will naturally do that because you know it's like where's the cheapest land. Cheapest land is rows and have an expensive building on it doesn't have and then it's like we were electrical. Yeah do i need. Okay well I need I don't need electrical right. 'cause i can use solar panels and younger banks yup. Do i need water. No will this is california right right. Water is a big issue right. Got to save water. Well there's no reason to poop in freshwater and then send it out the bay where the exhaust sewage even plants. Don't even you know. What does it mean to treat it. You know very little account rainy right. Yeah like half of it goes right in the bay so you know and you know right right here. Berkely ecology ecology center They've got this. You know sawdust bucket system which is perfect for fat pathogen control and uses no water. So you know you get a little bit of knowledge in a little bit of logic is like what is the purpose of toilet. It's to keep cholera out of your right. You know and what are we. What are we doing. We're trying to create places for people to sleep steady eight hours a day and trying to have enough energy to charge our computers so we can learn more. Yeah you we don't need to send late like we don't need to like put a like a third of what goes into. Landfills is construction debris. You're right this is like these houses like they're thrown away a third a third of what gets thrown away pieces of houses right. It's a lot of nasty toxic stuff that you know you know you're required to use it like berkeley transfer station. Won't even take pressure treated wood anymore. So so actually doing it. We will with like. It's it's like the most obvious thing in the world is rent the cheapest land and put the cheapest accommodation on it. And what are you trying to do trying to not wastewater trying to not weights electricity. Trying to not you know. Turn things on when it's burning coal and destroying the planet somewhere else so minimum consumption sustainable practices and it's logical and it's cheap. It's cheaper and better you know in the order and it's like at least an order of magnitude better right and then okay. You want to get more people. Okay you snore. So he's snore. No no people snore. Oh really hello. I snore anyway go ahead. I don't believe it you would never do. Such a thing is so then. You need some sleeping some sleeping. Can enclosures sitter soundproof enough. That will on persons snoring isn't gonna drive other people nuts and i guess we can talk about sex go. I don't want to talk about you. Wanna talk about sex year old school all right well kids someday. Someday you might you know. Get a dumb idea of experimenting with sex and then you might want a little bit of privacy. Where making those horrible mistakes but you but you have to you have to at some point pay for the operational costs for this and you have to create a framework of of charging people money. Maybe you've got some friends bunch of people you really like. If you wanna put in yeah right so you of course you want them to do this too. So that's brilliant logic just pushed you into this situation. And you just couldn't resist actually actualising this logical path. You find yourself. Was the first time that you did this at the oakland site or or was where was the doing flavors of this. You know my whole life okay. Mic sense You know and and Out in nerd culture it standard. Right you got your. You know you've got your your clubhouse your friend's house or your your ai lab. You know the standard layout is conservative court. You've got a common lounge and then you got your little cubicles around it Yeah and Why if you're doing what you want. Why would you stop doing what you want right. You're doing what you want there. So you do it until you can't physically twitch and then pass you know you go to sleep right okay. He pack repeat easley. Yeah but then you run into but that's fine because you've got to institutional protection right. You're right yeah you're at mit kinda of you. Run wild or wherever you know you know. Most places are not mit. most places. If you're sleeping if you're sleeping in your grad student cubicle you might be the only one doing yeah. Everyone else is out. I don't singing karaoke or something. Yeah no i heard that. Sf state they a. There's like a whole community of people that just sleep in the libraries these days because because of the housing crisis but anyway well you know sleep. No one has ever done anything bad while sleep. Yeah right who's you. Who is the worst villain in of history. That's a that's maybe that's a good name of name of villain from history adam a villain from his villain from history. A bad person that can commonly conceive to be bad person. I know you don't like wendy. Kissinger henry kissinger those auster. He is incinerated innumerable infants right. Yeah and and told a few lies. He didn't do any of that when he was asleep. Right fair enough. Yep henry kissinger should have been allowed to sleep more okay but you run into the codes the zoning the this this framework of rules i don't will you did and you are right. That's only when. I help people well but even but even though i can do it myself because i was i've been living in fear and hiding you all over the world for a long time. I don't naturally do stuff. Yeah they gets me in trouble right. It's it's when i invite other people in right and then they're wearing a bathrobe hanging out their laundry or just doing a different pattern right. I've i've got you know. I've i've been you know had cops wake me up. You know security guards. I've been given the whatever the the bum rush. You figured out how long how to stay away from the boys in blue. I've had plenty of time and well not all that much. Because i'm a quick learner and it's like well you know do you know. Do what bums do. It's like on the edges of things wrestling where you're not seeing low impact. You don't have light. Don't have a fire you know. And that's it's easy. Bump camp dog bump camped all over the world. It's it's easy right. You know you do that. That's my pattern but you know somebody else who thinks they have the right to do stuff. They'll get you in trouble you know. 'cause they'll they'll leave their lights Whatever they'll do all the stuff that got you in trouble. How did he get you in trouble. How did we get in trouble. We got in trouble because somebody called us in which i think is what happened. A neighboring recall neighborly neighbor a neighbor who we were running the best for everyone. Yeah and we were so close to that person and we gave them so. Many gestures of neighborly neighbor neighborliness and They just kinda had say. Why mental landscape No no Well i mean. I could deduce it from the way. The conversations drifted to more Like less friendly and more like you're the bad guy around kind of the upswell of of Of black lives matter. And the fact that i started working at a tenant's rights organization and this guy's very landlord centric and You know saw me as the the enemy social justice warrior. Why are you talking to this homeless guy on the street. Why are you guys like so about this Your this whole like living low cost thing even though he's a you know he's a hippie with a van outside of his house and but he actually lives on the same street where you are yet just right next to. Oh 'cause a lot of the time. Like when i got violated in berkeley you know. The the grapevine was that she was some new lady that it moved into an apartment building like three or four blocks away and had just like i don't know thought that poison gas from the porta potty I made the mistake of putting potty there what did you do in so berkeley. Tried to put one tiny home in your backyard. You own a house a single family home. Nope nope. I bought a vacant lot in berkeley orca and I let And everything was fine. Like i had a year at there. Okay and You know i was doing my own thing there. And then i let henry yeah put his shingle shack there. Okay a little tiny. And then i made the mistake of putting a porta potty next to it because i thought that would make people think that read that. The people were just flinging shit everywhere from your experience in oakland. I'm guessing which was in oakland. The re one of the big reasons that elliott has the pu beckett media frenzy right. Yeah of of whatever year that was there was also that was in twenty fourteen and there were two thousand fifteen the winter between but there was also. I heard you guys were using fish emotion to do soil remediation but the smell was what people thought it was all geniuses their poured it was all jeans and so okay so west. Oakland has So much lead in the dust. Wipe off your face. That and that's the dirt like the yard had no dirt in the yard and said it was lead dirt that we scraped off. That was what blue in off the air interesting. And that was fifteen hundred parts per million. Okay don't don't trust me on that but it's in a in a shovel full of dirt. he did you guys do soil tests. Yup yep okay. Soil testing dot com. It's fantastic heavy metal test for fifteen bucks cinema one pound ziplock of dirt. Oh that's how much university of umass amherst raise their prices. They used to be the cheap test. That's where i've done it simply soil. Testing is the cheap heavy metal test. Okay i'll try and Yeah i think it was like fifteen hundred parts per million so in a twelve pound shovel full of dirt. You can get enough lead to make us seven or nine. Gram nine millimeter bullet. She's like there's like per shovel. Is how much lead is blowing in the wind in west oakland red and like the most intensive five thousand five thousand parts per million lead that's at Shoot that place. Just south of the bart station and And that's that's that's a handful of dirt has enough to make a bullet nine millimeter bullet crazy. So what binds. Lead is phosphorus fish fish bone. Meal has as phosphorus fr. So my buddy had a project doing i got. I got a whole lot of that. Yeah and the problem with surrounded with Good kids and geniuses is. They don't put things back. So there's there's kind of two people you know. There's there's two kinds of people in the world you know. There's the ones who grew up playing spy. Ah they were snooping around in their parents stuff and put. Every because they read some book about spies spies have to learn. Could everything exactly back and then they practice that it makes them really. Good co workers back right. Then there's the other people. Yeah you know like your typical tweaker right. Where they just opened you can tell when they've been there because all the doors are open right they just ransack and move on. The doors are opened. Nothing's closed for so you know a typical gifted child who becomes a grad student. You know and takes adderall for a few decades kind of a tweaker okay. They don't see that all right. So so i brought these. I put this stuff in bags and buckets right. And every time i looked at it again. The lid was open Right and there's a smell some. Someone forgot what was in there and decided to look again or they opened up the bed. You know these and these bags of cloth go look. It's a bag of cloth cool and then. This bag of cloth is like gets reigned in bag of soggy cloth. That's not nice. So that's what happened right and that that that got neighbors to call and that and that's the mechanism. There was a smell right. there was a smell. Yeah so but you're doing wait being way. Too charitable came back to this berkeley experienced lady. Just thought that you know okay well. Apparently she thought that poisoned that the porta potty would make poison gas there would hurt her blocks away while so but but but the way it works as she calls into into the planning office like idea. I called in the planning office once i wanted to know about. Some project was going on. I said they said do you wanna complain. I said no. I'm just curious about it. Can you tell me about this thing is like like. Let's let's start a complaint. Let's start a complaint process. You wanna complain. Let's let's get that going. Yeah okay tell me about the address. This is like no you know. They really want you to complain. I don't know why well i mean. Because then they have. They have discretion right if they get enough complaints it just increases their power and this is a reform it used to be they out they used to be out there. Just like you know unilaterally see you know putting the evil eye on everything and just deciding for themselves which they still do especially since there are a lot of nimbies niches everywhere just call and you know serving the evil eye. Well this is what. I really wanted to get at what. This conversation is given your experiences. Your your intimacy with the system. How would you rewrite it. How how should this be changed. What should happen because there is. There are bad actors or people that need to be reminded. Hey your fish. Emotion is stinking up the joint like put a lid on it but does it have to be in a way where you get these crazy sets of thousands of dollars of fines and then a lean and then a warrant to come remove and put it on your bill. Okay kids get out your lying notebook. And you're five sharp pencils in case one of them breaks. Because i will now explain how to solve. Humans problems problems humans. I'm quoting for all the hues all the problems. And if you know if you wanna you know right right me in as like tyrant ruler of the world. I can tell you exactly these exactly. What policy you're going to get. I'm giving you the tyrant magic wand right now you are now here. It is the world okay copy. What works copy work copy. What works okay. So find someplace that doesn't have this problem and copy what they're doing code enforcement wise. Everything makes sense everything. Yeah okay so that that is the answer to to redesigning but it seems like this is how it works. Well at least in america it's everywhere it's it's a complaints and then they have to their legally obligated to look into it and if they know they're not the they're not legally obligated to do anything. There's no law requiring them to to be used as tools in neighbor disputes right. There's there's not and that's what it is. It boils down to tools in neighbor disputes. Because well not even neighbors right. People can walk along. Ten thousand people looked into my yard. They're released right and none of them. Either they thought it was also or they didn't know her well what it was. They had no opinion right. You can have ten thousand of those like for ten years or five years or whatever right one person calls in and then if they feel like doing something about it they'll do about it now better for them if they get ten thousand complaints because then they can go back to their old arbitrary power thing of just doing whimsical enforcement which is like having no laws at all. You know having too many and selective enforcement that's arbitrary power. they can go through. These books. Like oakland raiders. Illegal to wear mass. Fill legal aware masks in oakland. Right is it. I ended and you're required to wear masks oakland. Also know it's right there in the ordinances. You can't whereabout a mask without a permit from the chief of police. Really yeah interesting. I didn't know yeah. They've got all the all these berkeley's got all these rules you can't you can't change the color of a chicken rabbit. Yeah so they. Would you like to so which of these problems. That are desperate. That are desperate. Young children. want to assault. Well i did we address. Well i think. I think some practical advice. Because we know that this stuff isn't gonna. I was thinking bigger picture. And i i guess i got. I got the answer bigger picture how to solve this is to scour maybe look at scandinavia's where i would start and see or look at manila alexis. No poor countries. Yeah people people where the artists are working within the constraints of great limitations. That's where the great art comes from and you know and maybe look into place with really great climate. The point is like how do you get to a place where people moving moving by logic are able to create logical things Even if they contradict previously constructed rules And code. So i had a. How does that. How does that like privacy. Hashed out in a way. It's not privacy. Yeah just don't let them see it like if you're if you're if you're if you're existence existences an abomination to them and they don't see that's fine with the tiny houses. They can look through the fence right like when you do it in a warehouse. Then they have to do the scheduled inspection. So there's this strange thing where your your you know. Your house is your castle. But you're wall city. You know your yard. It's not a walled city. But i don't know. I think people push back on privacy because they would be like all right. We'll you've you're doing something How how did push. They can't push against it and if they don't know about it like all those warehouses that we know about where people are living in tiny houses because they got rousted out of yards because they were visible other warehouses. Were they're not visible right. You know and that's why ghost ship happened that's go. She would always artists and hipsters crowded into that thing. 'cause oakland had those two thousand vacant lots and they were every last. One of them was vacant because the enforcers violated the owner with horrendous fines unless they emptied it right right under the logic. This we say it's vacant therefore you must vacate it. Yes right. Oh i love that logic. Wait so yeah i see. So you're saying privacy is the practical solution. Yeah you the word you know. If you can closet yourself you can be as gays. You want right every anywhere in the world as long as you stay closeted right. Yeah that's where that's where i. I like the term ninja. That's why i get a gilly suit. Get a nice gortex. Geli suit is lay down anywhere solve right but you know it's frustrating is like they have a rule against that You can't have offense more than six six feet but you figured out a pretty cool oakland. I already inches and transparent. Yeah you got to be able to see through it two inches. Which is that's that's you're required to have a for. A railing is forty two inches. Okay a wrist forty two inches right from falling off it. The fence is really a railing Because that way the cops you know can protect you better. Of course you can ask any cop. Yeah about whether they are able to protect anyone or whether that's no they go afterward too. Yeah yeah clean up the mask. We'll be there in four hours. Maybe take pictures of the you figured out a way though to get around the fence Defense requirements by by still creating privacy. Oh you can grow. Yeah yeah yeah you can. You can grow plants right right and you can you. Let's get everyone loves plants. Yeah and you can. You can cheat by putting loves animals. You know 'cause cain and abel you know kane grew plants. He was evil able. He had animals. He was loved by god. But then cain killed abel the plant. Grower my days out of control revolt plant-growers okay. They triumphed over the animal lovers archive in the bible. It's funding it's it's it's foundational. I know i should go. This is why we we need to hide behind plants. Yeah that puts us on the on the right side of these in real quick. I think you did a really brilliant saying In in one of your oakland sites where you were able to elevate the bottom of the plant in a pot right at the basically top of the fence lines so that the stocks go even higher the best strategy be commercial. Don't be residential you think. Commercial commercials commercial commercial with privacy is good kids commercials diverse activity. Also it's while it's not really necessary anymore because now we can. Just i don't know do tiktok dances and and by everything from china so money exactly so no one there. They don't need to be any businesses here anymore but No kamarck commercial is much better regulated like by better regulated. I mean the regulations are less insane. Yeah so you know. Living in a commercial space is a good way to do it. So we're in. We're impractical territory here. Which is good. I think you you've learned some things about so go commercial. If you do privacy get get a high fans so gaining commercial so oakland You know if you don't have a fence already and you build one yeah forty two inches and transparent right. It's gotta be and believe it or not. This comes from a book called defensible space. Now when you're looking for defensible space there are other things also call defensible. Space is like fire fire protection. Planners don't read books you know they don't know there's already. A book called defensible space about the effects of architecture on behavior. Okay so but oakland has they have some some of their rules are based on the pseudoscience from the defensible space. Some of which is completely true. Even though it's you know the scientists bad the conclusion some of them are right. It's things like have no more than twenty people. Using an entry way read have an elevated porch that things up so the building seems to be looking at the sidewalk basically to take all the people who live in the air make them feel like they should be there and any newcomers are feeling like somebody should ask them whether there. And you don't have a diffusion of responsibility whatever's you try and have a. It's a it's a it's like a funk swayed architectural zone defense. Gotcha where you don't have these edges and eddies and things that that collect neared wells interesting. Yeah so that's that's defensible. Space and one of the things is they noticed that In play that in places with low crime there are low fences so of course if they get rid of all the fences than there will be no crime. What's the logic behind that the low. Why well pinkas places with low crime. They have low fences in their logic. Oh it's because oh it must be because people in those houses are staring at the street and are like yelling at troublemakers. And tell them to go away or they can see what's going on better okay. That's the theory actually in places where there's no crime people don't bother with a fence right right because they don't know of anybody who's been harmed who could have been less harmed with a fence so they don't whereas if you read the actual book a little bit more it says that in places where you do not have is on the street you want a high physical barrier so in the alley which is like everywhere at three am. There's nobody there right. Yeah so to really comply with defensible space doctrine for fences. Yeah you should have it like with hydraulic cylinders to raise and lower it. So it's a forty two inch friendly railing during the day and then it's like an embassy wall at night. Yeah that's defensible spring and that's so if you get if you spend enough time at the planning counter it oakland though eventually pull out their guideline book which is not code rail so they also have guidelines that they used evaluate your thing. And that's that's just something. I guess they have a little team spirit Yes man festival where they get their favorite xerox's from architecture school And and make a bunch of guidelines that they don't say you know we don't looking online for are getting our permits for whatever. We don't see that. That's what they use to evaluate it so there they say you know and it's you know fences are a really big deal because we wanna we wanna get on free on we want to get on you know raw land and be good for the planet and one way to get away with that is to not make people have to see it right. Yeah 'cause they don't know the difference between poor people and sustainability turns out poor. People who can't afford a lot of resources are sustainable. So do also. Do you know less resource intensive stuff right now so K so that's you can ask for those and look at in their about fences. It says that the fence should not draw attention to itself. It should be consistent with the character of the neighborhood. You know it should You know should be forty two inches you know should do none of the functions that we actually need a fence and like go look at a police department. What kind of fence do they have. Low fences reduce crime. Maybe they get rid of their. You know their green zone barriers around themselves. Do you do you wanna get into some of the the horror stories that you've had to deal with just for for folks that are considering this stuff like what's the i feel like you've experienced some of these worst case scenarios in my mind. The what what. I understand to have happened in oakland where you were basically told. Hey you can't do what you were planning to do with this land that you now own and you're paying a mortgage on And you had to sit on that for a couple of years Talking about cognitive dissonance. From i might be injustice had illogic. Yeah i mean. I'm talking about like not just like the the the pain of trying to do something that you're that you're passionate about. That's logical like you said and being forced to stop but also the financial burden that put on you I don't know if you want to. Oh well that. I mean being a kid being being a kid is a nightmare. You know. that's what you're i mean. I don't know vivid. Or how detailed your memories of being a kid are being a kid is a nightmare. Because you're trying to do stuff being told no you can't do that. Stop doing that. And then they tell you a reason. It's baloney right right and it's a really good preparation for life. That's yeah it's just all day long you're being told to do stuff and then the lodge the might it might be good but the reasons you're told her baloney especially when you when you have the deep knowledge that you have you done the research bratty kid. Yeah yeah there's like. I i ideas as a kid are good or bad. You know you're still be you still get the same treatment. You're told to do a bunch of stuff right and there's no but as a as an adult kid that i think you're pointing to that you are which i think is great. You have you can go. Hey like look at the look. At the science behind composting or look at the science behind fencing. It there's no mechanism to to go to these these authorities and say like you know have a court of law or something in a trial and present amac. The mechanism is showing up showing up showing up like in occupy right. Two thousand eleven like. We're yelling at city hall. Yeah turns out. The city hall was having a meeting already Like and it's open to the public and the velvet chairs telecasters. You can see really whatever they have the monitors you can see like what we're trying to say things to this government and there's already this nobody's showing up to that thing you know and they've got the velvet chairs and they want us to be there and maybe they aren't going to do anything about it but anyway it's like it's like there's no. There's no substitute for showing up the like. What is town government. Town government is the most democratic possible thing. it can't get any more democratic than that right. It's like who makes these decisions right. And whose influence right a council you know. They get paid nothing right. I yeah bringing up to five hundred dollars for city. Council campaign is a huge amount of money. Yeah and then and then. It's governed by acclamation. It's like goes until three a m you know. There's so much public comment. Yeah and the friends of the library show up with all their matching tee shirts demanding that they be allowed to put a slightly larger sign on their library than the than the sign of jordan's. Yeah and they make a whole 'cause out of that and they go to three or four council meetings and eventually they allowed to put up the sign on their library that says library. That's a little bigger than the than the vaping shop is allowed to have. I see your point. You're saying you're saying. I think i'm hearing you say like you know you can walk around saying you're smarter than these idiots who are pushing these stupid codes on you but did you go for a couple years and and organiz with a bunch of other people to push changes to push law changes and if you don because what the law is very unimportant here yeah like you know. There's there's plenty of laws you know. There's all these federal laws federal decisions given the rights to do everything we're doing and those rights are only as good as our lawyer right. That was what i wanted yet. Lawyer those rights is very expensive in a good one will tell you that like when when i was outraged i wanna justice mytalk to lawyers. You know there were the young idealistic ignorant ones said. Oh let's have you know it was a lot of fun having our legal hackathon and reading the codes and stuff who without without lexus and the you the settlement history or whatever it is hopefully you can get like like. You can't even find out which of those things were already invalidated by court cases. An oakland does nothing but losing settle cases because it layer won't take the gig unless it's free money right. Is there reason. They're so terrified of lawyers because they've never seen lawyer who wasn't on you know wasn't gonna win lawyer won't take the gig otherwise so is there a path where you were you. Go like lemme invest in this in these three hundred dollar an hour legal fees. Because i'm going to get a settlement from oakland that'll pay for that and and the losses of of dealing with this situation to begin with well there are mechanisms. There's you know coup tam. There's color of law like the if you look the. Fbi has a color of law. You know office. They are tasked with you. Know smacking it to officials who abuse their power in lake misconstrued. The law interesting They're all these. They're all their things but again you know there's there's there aren't that many of them. Yeah so but i mean what what you know you to city hall you get your twenty you know you get you get a bunch of people that go to city hall to the city council meetings. You know you are. What's there right. You are with their. You are what's being talked about. You know we'll go there already. They're saying all the same buzzwords that you got the we got all brainwashed. We got brainwashed with the trendy buzzwords that everybody is saying right and so we go up there. We say trendy buzzwords and they say trendy butlers. It's a love festival training buzzwords. Well you you bring up this point. That i think is is interesting to talk about which is like you mentioned that like city governments are very democratic and i guess in theory zoning specifically i said they are democratic as anything can be right. How are you gonna make something more democratic thana bunch of you know poorly paid elected people where it only costs them thousand bucks or something to get elected. It definitely doesn't end. They're running these trillion dollar like they're managing trillions in assets. Yeah crazy it doesn't feel democratic from that the us and its point. Yeah no but you realize that they've got a sixty percent like nii be constituency there. That's where i was going is like. Yeah they are representing democratic. We'd we'd lose even more and then the fancy twist is the artificial scarcity of shelter makes the craving. You know the desperation have a tiny house even more intense sophia. The opportunity to have the struggle at all is created by these conditions. Like this is not like people in. Manila are not watching tiny house shows on tv. They're allowed to have a tiny house. Rhetoric yeah third world countries like there. Isn't they get to do it. It's natural they think it's insane right and it and it is but You know there are incentives. Incentives are are real estate back financial system right river. You know you know the different street in california about whether you retire you not. Did you buy some real estate early enough. And did you get it. You know that is a little whether you bought in boomer crash but mostly what matters is how long ago you had it right right right. And there's so many people that are locked out of that as petty cabdriver. I mean. I was lucky to have a dad who had a job that can hold a mortgage or could qualify for a mortgage whereas a pedicab driver. You can't do that just on your own now yet to team up with people you have to team up. The sector investment is valid. Even if you're getting in the form of an reit right then the problem with any are reit's you which is a real estate investment fund an investment vehicle. That is supposed to do a real estate. Does you can't live in it right. So if you're if you know it costs you double. If you're paying the live in one place you know paying rent here and trying to hedge that right well. So and then the mechanisms of doing group by yeah like in japan. Now you can buy tiny little pieces of real estate right. Because they they already went through this. So speaking of copy what works yeah copied japan. Okay tell me more well. They had their you know million dollar apartment phase in in the nineties orca and then they had their bubble the bubble and crash and then they had after that you know the the the scarcity industry lost its power and its money and they did a bunch of sweeping reforms which is upper level code or its national zoning code on a whatever scale of nuisance okay. I think is how they how they do it. So you are allowed to live in a high nuisance area if you want but Towns can't stop someone from building apartment buildings so So you can build and you can you know they. They they solved like housing's cheap in in in tokyo. Now it's cheap. I heard even that you can get paid to take ownership to take stewardship of a of a like a dilapidated home in some parts of rural japan. I wanna say like they will pay you to come out and just kind of steward go on youtube and watch the documentaries there. There are a lot of documentaries. About how happy these foreigners are. They moved to japanese villages and are doing. You know some little business there. If i wasn't wrapped up in what's going on here and oakland that's where it would be. You know turns out when you have low population growth in lot of capital that drives up the value of humans Right that's been a big question. Yeah how do you. How do you make human existence valuable to it. Seems like it's not an getting less valuable all the time for certain people. Yeah human capital Where are we. We solved it all yet. Well yeah well. It's getting kinda windy. How's the wind noise. It sounds decent. I think i think we've gotten there Do you have other final thoughts around. I did i mean there was. We don't have to get into it but you had some really good stuff before we started recording about what's going on in the delta you do. You are at the moment deal announced. Nothing's everything is fine. Okay everything's great Okay you kids. Don't get a tiny house. Don't get a tiny house. It's a kick-me sign it's an albatross you know if you're gonna get a camper and strip it just keep just use it. You know yelled get some yellow foam and some and some colorful paint and just use it as it is and don't worry about black mold you know. There's only like three colors of mold and there's about ten million different kinds of mold. You know you can don't whatever you're not being sarcastic being totally. You know like yeah. Yeah tiny houses. Are there terrible tiny homes meeting. Wood framed expensive succeeded. These exotic jewel box projects that people never finish the cost of tremendous amount of and. Then it's a nimby magnet. You know it's you don't think you don't think that there's a future where go where homes are built like cars that cost like ten thousand dollars you can get them on payment like ours. Rv park next to me here. Yeah but they're built but they're built with with better permanent materials thicker insulation and then there's a ton of parks and places kind of like around places around here and the delta works park it for cheap. Yeah a four door value. No you don't want to be a speculative instrument driven up driven by artificial scarcity. No i think. I think that is part of a big part of the problem. Housing should be for housing and Don't wrap it up with investment Wealth storage okay. Well i'm happy to take the other side of that argument. So you're saying you're you well. The first question is do you think that that's a world that we could get to. Yeah with a. I think you can walk. Can walk there. You can walk there from here. Yeah okay but you don't think that we should hit. Kids are like living everywhere in the well. Okay so kids. Look for pictures of tiny houses. Watch all these talking. You know next time you're on an airplane fly somewhere to instagram. Your food Look watch all those tiny house shows on the on the airplane tv. Where are these tiny houses. They're out in the middle of nowhere right right when you see tiny houses in backyard or even in front yards. Then it'll be safe for you because you know you don't have capital you've got labor you need to be in a hot job market or to get a decent return on your labor you need to minimize your expenses. You can save it. Then you can start being a capitalist once you have some capital right till you have capital your labor and so you need to get a better return on your labor and you do that. Where labor is scarce one reason labor scarce as a place where housing is extremely expensive. Because it's artificially scarce you need. You know bunch friends in a warehouse where he can hide. You need to you know whatever. Just don't get yourself a tiny house that's an albatross sleep in your car. You know yeah sleep in a van. Yeah yeah yeah just like. Don't don't don't over consume this. You know like maybe. You got raised in the wrong kind of skinner box. And you can't poop unless it's like your personal toilet maybe can't sleep unless it's your own specific thing and you've got to have the whatever all this stuff like people do get trained that way they get addicted to these conditioned the conditioned stimuli for basic human functions. You can get crippled by all this stuff right then there. You are spending thirty grand on this tiny house right. Yeah or even worse building it yourself. In which case cost you one hundred grand because it takes all your time and paying for a place to put it no just exist. But you you you really. I remember once you told me everybody should get in and a tiny home. And then we'll force this role to exist that you talked about there in there in the front yard side yards and it's safe for safety for tiny homes for practical housing in To paraphrase jesus. Yeah those who do not have a tiny house. Go and get one. Everyone must get a tiny house right now. Okay and then. We'll have a bunch of people who care enough right once they all get violated. Then they'll care enough to go to the city council meeting right right right until then you know it's just one at a time you know. Yeah and we've seen this right. Yeah as soon as their needs are met met. They go into some kind of coma. Right right yeah. 'cause we useless right. It's like a non violated tiny houses not a political not a political anything. And i mean that's been the story of our community is. We stayed under the radar. We we of felt like we weren't gonna get violated. We weren't going to get asked to leave. And you know i. I've been involved politically a little bit. But i haven't gone to every city council meeting and talking about this every every month. Yes but now that we are now. We're being told to leave now. Were were at risk now. We're trying to get political now. We're trying to look up when the next city council meeting is and to show up. We got worse. it is better. It is who said that tim anderson every guerrilla leader All right well. I think i've had more clarity. But i'm also a little piece about where you stand a tiny homes but that's that's fine. We are fundamentally opposed. This is now a debate. Destroy each other security arguments. Ready next time tune in next time adam and i with jagged. If you've got eighty tiny wasn't it shout. Tidy lodging dot net.