20 Episode results for "Nwpp"
"A from news eighty eight seven in houston many robinson developing story at this hour. A federal judge is hearing arguments over. Harris county's drive thru voting sites but our reporter beth trove all has been on the scene and says journalists were prevented from entering the courtroom all morning long just a short time ago. One reporter from the houston chronicle was allowed in to cover the proceedings outside the courthouse. Dozens of protesters gathered in downtown. Houston while the hearing took place. The supreme court has already thrown out similar challenges to drive thru voting brought by republicans. Some gop activists want roughly one hundred. Twenty seven thousand votes in harris county to be invalidated. Sarah jones brought her kids with her to a protest. And here's what she had to say. Mike has need to see this. Mike is need to see that. I'll crawl over broken glass to make sure that my the gop lawsuit was originally again. Just the harris county clerk but several democratic campaign committees the texas nwpp and the aclu with the league of women voters of all asked to join as defense as well. Some prominent texas republicans have criticized the effort to throw out votes including former texas speaker. Joe straus houston state representative. Sarah davis and pierce bush. Grandson of the late. George blah george bush. Meanwhile we heard from some people who cast their ballots using the drive through option like sarah blocker of tasca. Sita she says she has cystic fibrosis. Says her condition makes her extremely vulnerable to the corona virus so incredibly livid that they're trying to invalidate my vote. And if i have to go in person it would literally be deadly to me to have to be around people I could if i catch this virus. My lungs are not as strong as a normal person's It i mean. I could have permanent damage to my lungs or death. Nevertheless blocker says if the court does invalidate her vote she will go to the polls tomorrow wearing an ninety five mask and a face shield stay tuned for more updates here at news. Eighty eight seven support for npr comes from npr stations. Other contributors include the estate of joan b.
E62: Gareth Balch - Two Circles
"Hi I'm Richard Gillis. You're listening to official partner. The sports business podcast Gareth botch co-founded two circles in two thousand eleven. When he was twenty eight years old and the business has since become one of the most influential sports marketing agencies to over the last decade the came to be seen as a de facto data agency that works many sports rights holders from the NFL. The Premier League UEFA Formula One and Wimbledon to name. But a few we talk about what this really means. In the many interpretations and misconceptions people have both about the job of digital transformation in sports and the company itself in two thousand fifteen two circles was acquired by group. Nwpp's Media Investment Management Company which was incorporated into what was a new global sports and Entertainment Agency Brand could esp just recently WPP. Sodas majority stake to Bruin sports capital. The New York based investment vehicle controlled by George Pot the former boss of IM J. The unofficial partner podcast is now published daily Amway Proud and grateful that our conversations are being listened to by thousands of people from across the sports business every week of the year. If you like to inquire about appetizing sponsorship or branded podcasts. Please get in touch with Sean Sean at unofficial partner Dot Co you K- or you can reach US via the website unofficial partner dot com kick off really with. I will thanks for coming on and the first question is is what does it daylight light now view. That's a great question well Definitely more parenting is high. Often the high on the agenda Northland we we've got three little ones and a missile. Shes is is schoolteacher. And everything else in between this is what is the danger of jet before Of An absence of sex annoy my youngest got million trying to get the kids out in the Diane and I'm schooling. Malaki is a is a whole new game for us Erin in day seven of schooling today and say foucault good so a lot more going on time clearly with my screen Bizarrely I get my daily on meeting. Starts I find. I'm spending much less time on my mobile screen modesto from a man who really gets his His lots of our computer out on a on a day to day world much rather spend time face to face to people but a lot of desktop screen time at this point Annella In many ways much hasn't changed in the last ten days in the To look off to autism in Auckland as best we can clearly in every other way it's changed entirely Madari's completely different process of change. Usually as we were really focused. Teams House are not required A Client Economic House has all secondary priorities is clearly were focuses right now. I want to know how to circles. Has adapted really to virtual life my motto management him in the last week is stay calm and be sensible. I guess in these of crisis than I. It's not dramatic. It's cooler In this crisis to stay calm be sensible. Things were important a good time to decision site. We we spun up a went into virtual working as of a weight loss Monday in offices across the globe we we were really close. Fallen government advice all the way time for us to become expert in pandemics. So we've looked follow government advice but we've respond into virtual working pretty quickly and and do you know what somebody's is. Really seamless Lobby were noticed but in London office last year up. The water tank broke last summer. Chuck Todd Our Two weeks so it was like a trial. A trial run uninterrupted. Then many clients would not Not Happened and said somebody. We had a bit of a trial run last year. And then otherwise. We'd been preached in this since we started to circle says go to a couple of policies existed for a long time one is. You're not allowed to sit in the same desk two days in a row when you're in the office at least somewhat will challenge him when you've Desk at high And secondly that e can work from wherever you want to get you choose. That's that's always been a philosophy circles and I think both of those things of citizen pretty good stead in the people on really entrenched in working in the same place anyway in our world and secondly ob- people frequently often more from hyman. We're used to been Connected business with with Website so we spun off and jumped into a virtual working world. Pretty quickly DOT Teams and vehicles co hugely and a whole bunch of things kicked into gear like daily miles and weekly. Huddles and virtual team dis. That we've used for many more things but we've yeah we've tried to jump into it pretty quickly and and regime a new business as usual as effective as we can and what the clients want are they look at. Are you still in crisis mode? You know all is there any long longer term. Sort of themes emerging yeah. I think I think we're still in Still think we're still making sense of of this and still pretty short term which I today from many of our clients in other Either canceled events in our figuring out the Rescheduled to them in managing the supply chain of negotiations that exists Still in process of CRANSTON. We've only really lost the first half of the spring fest off of the summer at this point. I think is increasingly Lightly we're going to lose the second half of the life sporting summer class really short time at the moment and thinking. I need to the survival oil. Strive through this scenario is best. I can with supporting clients through that making good decisions in negotiations with with everyone supply chains and all that partners Unimportantly communicating with fans is effectively can engaging fines and giving finds the fix even if the if the real fix of Is is not with us for a while and not in terms of your role of people see you as that connection that is not well explained the reward they come to you in the first place. And what's what is it specifically now the sort of questions that they're asking you. Yeah well I think I think typically engage or contract with your stuccos to build relationships that finds that can help them increase engagement announcement that for might be through a dial. All sponsorship will media should Old Rights principal routes to monetize their their rights thus the principal reason curious at this point. I think what we can do is provide the intelligent on effective way to engage with fence about talking to the right customer. Right Mr the right time and that's ever more important at this moment but we can also do a motive strategic Muslim for a client. So we've always been a strike consultancy in pop mocked in agency in this point of astrology. Colors fill particularly helpful invaluable for our clients as we start to muddle out various scenarios in the commercial implications of them going down scenario a scenario bid and so on which I think every organization with More scenarios model than like Hedren right now. So we're helping them to make sense of that. Make smart decisions. In at a time of an attack of uncertainty. I guess it insensitive the success or failure of that. You know that route depends on what they've been doing. The last five years in terms of you know I was in the coffee shop yesterday and or sunny outside coffee and they were talking about. We're going to set up a direct to consumer consumer business. I think well good luck with that. Starting now it's going to be tricky. And a thing every sportswriter every everyone has been saying or you know for for five years at least a this is the direction to develop this area Blah Blah and if they have been there in a bit of -sition now generally but what one of the various stages in that journey that you'll see. Yeah I think that Europe say right. We've we've been. We've been thinking pucks indirect for for many years and the best way to direct is to is to own engaged fans by data in our opinion using a whole bunch of what's True. I think of every disruptive force in any market since the since Marcus begun is the disruptive forces bear a recession or a wall or pandemic were now experiencing they accelerate change. And I think what we're going to say isn't acceleration of of the direct. A trend on trend towards direct becoming the principal business model for sports organizations appropriately wrapped around with with Within relationships rebroadcasts sponsors of course and And I think what we what we say is a whole bunch of pine as early adopters making real progress in this area proven out. How a direct model can work in. The MODEL will Dr Sponsorship as much as it will do the the much-heralded until about eighteen models which they must've things people think about when I think about the rights and I don't think we're GONNA see coming out of this. Is that the the the this crisis will shine a light on businesses. That haven't adopted haven't innovated in an effort we're going to have to to survive. Oh frankly will drown at this. Point is to everybody starts with that will become the Shannon lights and that will become the new accepted normal in the industry site said we're GonNa say an acceleration. I think of what we've been talking about what you mentioned people. Vs I'm the in terms of the we've spoken about this before but there is a the sort of data that you're talking about in terms of the data is a word that has way we everyone uses but obviously it is it can mean anything so what specifically can or do sports fans or or what rightsholders gain or were they need and what is easy to get more difficult to get so. Let's just clarify what you mean by nicer? Because oversee two circles we know the data people yes spot that needs to be of clarity. I think they are old. Takes on arrival of course so when I talk about the data they do that in the context of fan data. Human being people spectator audience. Call it what you will recorded span data. So the the ability to personnel defy any individual who interacts transacts with a sports organization Fan Data than other types Sports just kind of the next biggest Reworking accumulation of of formats data around the sports events. That half awesome those Rondo or Or indeed how I'm going to school don't have any positive made accenture Another boy in and I'm really valuable Ecosystems two circles in our What about fundraiser? I would have I bow hollander watcher. Or what website so or additional contented consumers our wealth and we've got these To presume Bley the media relationship that people have with sport being the primary driver of revenue. what you get. What do they get back from that? Because everybody that's been passed onto the third parties of broadcasters for years and now the OT question is trying to then develop their own would have we called it. Data Reservoir lack of information that they have What's how does that pro. Who is doing this well? Who is who is moving. Well in this space. Yeah great you. For years like you say meteorites or song to two said Brokaw's partner will garden was essentially built at that point between the the rights are on the media provider and the media provider owned cats all that data within the golden light much like our friends at facebook or others. Now do with everybody says an an off they went and that's how the world was the new world will will will say the fragmentation of media consumption. That's been happening since the mid Nolte's taking it's taking its place. Appropriately within how rights are sold and therefore will gardens. We've get broken down between said rights partner in rights owner between broke rights owner. And there'll be a much greater. Share him because in the last fifteen years so all right. Scientists become meteoroid is in our own right and have found the rights beyond live long-form exclusive rights have become much more valuable Greater a greater amount. They used to be. Nfl Davis acquired accumulated by the right side. Hansa meteorologist and equally the meter sent hang on. You know lots more right. Your fans are much more likely to engage with your brand directly rather just mine and we can be much more collaborative in driving the value of the rights to Off and therefore what we're seeing is is a much greater sharing of knowledge and ultimately sharing the rodents relationships to row overvalue. Sometimes that can can be in the why is direct to consumer meteorites in it platform or indeed can just be a collaborative approach to driving the consumption of the live. Long rights said Brokaw's partners as a quiet and say I'm the likes of NFL of being really progressive in this area for a long time. They've understood the fragmentation media. That's happening and happened in the world. Nfl start to rebuild them meteorite cycle to be meteorites structures to be much more akin to how the world is actually working tonight as opposed to how it used to work when it was Simplisafe in there was much less fragmentation of media and the so each you know we're talking about the The top of the elite rightsholders They are sports gathering their own data as best. They can at the moment. Is there a point at which Sports better together than it is individual. And can you ever see a moment where people start to say? Okay well what better off pooling? This data there isn't too much difference between sports fans In each individual category or vertical. And we need to have some defense or attack against you mentioned facebook Amazon. Creating enormous will goblins and actually profiting a great deal from sport. I think the history of sports rights that move Avi Movable when aggregated them when desegregated effect. Truth I I think for the potential Fan Data I think that a schools have aggregated fan. Dater they found move When it's being disaggregated and so I think what will save a time is natural alliances foreman for the aggregation of data. Would we have without on numerous numerous already the already fiber eighteen site where you get clubs within the League aggregating data and then present On a legal basis and of course when I say selling selling the date veggie suddenly ability. That data aggregated provides to media. Partners won't so to be able to get more value out of the school until I think we're GONNA see a lot more of that. Become increasingly normal for Feliks in club. Seven Leagues to aggregate data to them. Build more compelling rights to a school whether we see alliances aggregation across sports. I think that's a whole nother leap in sports political structures being tested right now more than it's been tested every before it goes into a whole new world of scheduling circus that we've we've gotta say I maybe we'll get that but aside anything that I'm and data is more valuable. When aggregated and a natural alliances will form within schools to aggregate. Because it makes more money for everybody when it's done intelligently in in terms of the mentioned we're in a strange place in strange things happen and great leaps forward happen and one of the one of the things that as you say twenty twenty one depending on how you look at. It is The greatest years forever or an organization. Shit I you know. The sharpest elbows are just suddenly landing indicts the Olympics and said what we are here and then you've got or the others trying to desperately trying to work out when how they get their events away for the good reasons for a fan Reasons but also for commercial reasons. What's going to happen? Is the leap forward. Going to happen. Greater cooperation it feels like it needs some coordinating body on this because there is one. It will become a mess very quickly if it hasn't read. Yeah I I think it might be too late for coordinating body to come to the full although Never never want to underestimate the power of of human to do intelligent things. We've done it in since the history of humankind site you never know about a suspect that might be too much draws for twenty twenty one. We have something called the attention. Index into hoes and the attention index. Basically monitors the amount of attention that sports fans globally can provide to sports content over the course of the week. Be that in live or live events attendance or indeed live watching or non live consumption. I'm that is consistently shown is there is more Demaim for schools content supply of it which in itself is a challenge in a world where there's a big debate around many sports already been oversupplied with broke replies. Having too many concussions plan too often no for formulas bandings we'll sit etc etc There Demont for tension of sports content in the world than current be supplied. And therefore I think what we'll see is we'll grow into twenty twenty one and old. The biggest will get bigger the challenge in Group. Sports Properties will rise quicker as a consequence of this an analysis often the case in in a period of chaos. Those who have been less fit for purpose will probably find this really really difficult and the in the shop. Alba's as you put. It will probably bumped him out the way and they might have the demand deleted by the attention. But what I think will say. Is that sports consumption. In twenty twenty one will be a record year of sports consumption because there are more humane than the world. He want to see more of the stuff in the penalty month. Twenty twenty plus. The Avis supply of events. In Two thousand twenty. One will lead us to having the most consumption ever was sports live. Sport achieved of course that we get a handle. This pandemic unlocks pool is a thing in butter normal from twenty twenty one on one. So when you're looking at advising clients on the right you've got you say you've got big and small niche and more mainstream and you'll say there's a strategy for each but it feels like the biggest get bigger. Yeah what do you say to the to the ones that aren't in not on in the big in the big now? That's not Oregon device payment for that. Now I think it's The bigger bigger I think that's a precedent of any Situation Determines that is a form of natural selection in that regard? The those that WanNa get in that then only I would I The best thing you can do is use period to re cut your cost base to become more in line with where you are in reality to die them. Build a multi-year gross strategy that is profitable from Taiwan. And a line to your fans and and find your right knee. Sharia right gap in the market and that that's challenging because one of the biggest challenge one of the big issues L. Set at the moment is they've got to loftier expectations or too big spaces for the reality and and Either got an IVY supply of events or into biggest idea or in have too big a talent cost. They need to reset over the element to be able to get the best boats to be more from the outset. So I would suggest that need to be become more aligned to the to the demand days within the mock it from a fan perspective and then figure out how they are the fan base from that. Do you buy into the idea that this is is GonNa be great correction happening and this is a sort of music industry moment for the sports business. Do you think that that's a realistic comparison in terms of the shift? I don't buy into the music industry passing rarely. It's a really simple idea. That's easy to gravitate towards and say lots of the more disrupt table Pie may refer in this country light to light to kind of call hours. Appoint too I think this industry pink going through his music industry Moment is just Every ten years because of the nature of the right cycles that exist in Atlantic. You'll actually be a a kind of fingers and inherit guy naps this. Hey let's have a. That's happening going to happen but because of the nature of write cycles Moments happened but it happened over ten years rather than every ten minutes but I read something the other way to says that the in these crosses sometimes a a decade's worth Happened in a week in another decades. A week's with events happened in a decade. And I think I think over these last few weeks we've seen a decades restive world events happened in Tomintoul which will undoubtedly accelerate that moment so if obstacles. It's coming it's coming quicker than it was three weeks ago but but it was still come over. Multiple right cyclists Than in a moment this is about two circles the brand of two circles. Because it's you know it's interesting you enter the marketplace and I remember sitting on award panels and there's things and you you you very quickly. It was obvious that you are telling a different story than the rest of the market and it was really interesting one and everyone was saying with these data guys Do you think the the that initial sort of two circles two point one point if Eli has that lasted I. It's done you very well. You've told a great story and IT'S A is. A niche story is a walls initially anyway. I'm just wondering if you are comfortable with that. They're the data guys description. Now do you think the there is a breadth to the company? That doesn't get recognized but some very kind question I say. Thank you for saying Nice things about unbeknown to us. We would just do what we thought was sensible rights Early part of the of the of the last ahead sites such but thank you for your words. Are we come to be called the guys I mean girls yet? I think I think that we We think that data is rewiring sports from top to bottom so I I think when our time is done we might not be remembered as the guys and girls but but might instead be remembered for rewiring. Sports the way in which sports commercialized. We believe is going through music. Moment is reach engineer. It was still so it was still sell Meteorites still make money from event Diet but how does those things will change a reversal player? We rewired to reflect the digital the digital era rather than the analog age that we've come. I'm an element. I think we'll be remembered hype that we get remembered when all time is done and we do hang up her spikes or China's our arms Is that we'll get. We'll get remember for helping to re Wasp Bullets ready for the digital era that we're now in. There was a one of the things that struck me was because it was. They say there was the was linear the media model of sport. And you appear to be. There was a sort of focus on decision making or a different approach to thinking about things that was interesting And that felt like the the I pointed different so it was. Data was a sort of way in which you arrived at that. But do you think that the sort of the way we think about? We approach sport from a commercial perspective has shifted in in the time that you've been yeah at least you still an outline question. Are you stream or sauce? I how in law might throw a kind of a bit to kind of probably the wrong person to Oscars is one of the cofounders business. I I don't know about I never. I'm really proud of empower. Having spoil it fails more mainstream than ever was. But I don't know if we're not spine to be mainstreamed. But we are aspiring to do is to have a really deep long lasting impact on sports to be more relevant on the world so that more more humans can I'm failed Inspired by and better lives are the consequence like deep down nuts. Like if you're trying to rub Bothers US and gets up in the morning. I think that I think you're right that data's data was the organizing idea behind everything that we wanted to to. To achieve. Data is the Organiz. Niger is the common source of Of changes the Catholics for which sport needs to reread stuff to be relevant in this new era of digital era than the analog age that it was that was only ever been designed before for before sports only ever had one business model prior to this new errors Say in that linear media media world where eyeballs counter for everything Engagement was with secondary or relevant. And I'm with steadily and systematically I believe is an industry will can away through that change as we as we can bound by by multi year rights cycles and were ultimately bound by the transformation of brands on the transformation of meteoric relations. These come with a lot. We can't change boss elves brands in Meteo organizations to change alongside us for that to happen. And that's why I believe the moment will be it. Will it will be. It'll be a ten year event or fifteen year where we will be like okay. The businesses now radically different than it was before and we made. We made a apply as as a as a bunch of individuals who wanted to do something really amazing sports to say well we believe in that scenario the right signers of commodity this is the most light needs changing industry That people who can have the greatest influence on changing industry. They're the ones that are going to be here. At the end brands come go with from principals in meteorology relatively do as well but but right center said the ones that stand the test time so if we can if we can accelerate the change accelerate the capability and accelerate the competency that we have within Rice Iras than that have the most amazing impacts on the industry Unindicted was the Organiz Niger. Behind that is the commonality in it will continue to be the commodity in the organizations to exist in this future era again. Brilliantly data driven. They're gonNA understand that fans intimately on a human level an the best way to do that in this day. Just to have great data Actions and if you can do all that stuff send your money and have the biggest impact on the world. Sorry long answer not to what what is interesting. So the the I mean the the counter to your argument is the one you here Sometimes he's the sport is about intangibles and the value of sport is an intangible the the passion argument of the fans etc and that is why it has outperformed other marketing sectors in terms of sponsorship in meteorites. There is an irrationality to it. If you pick that too much and if you go the two circles route then the value will come down. That's the That's the argument. You sometimes hear from frightened right so I'm sure you've heard it one hundred times but what's the what's the answer to that well? The answer is of course sports intangibility. It's passionate it's ability to to engender emotions in humans. Like no other mocks in medium can do is is a On long long long loss challenges is as industry to be able to fend off while other mediums are able to now do with data and how they're able to prove a attribution and demonstrate value in a world that is increasingly accountable. Evidence based and how does that was made? Its business out within sports people first of all most people don't understand the passion of Industry the value of the intangibility. Figure out how you can turn that into something that you can convey in a boardroom to convince this. Ama or skeptical about the power. Sports make a difference to their business. And that's what we've been an accident training for the last eight and a half years of business will do for a long time to come and ultimately we are where sports people were very commercial. One of the biggest differences where Sweat with sports sports fans commercial marketisation inside ain't making more money from That interest about it. So we've been spending all years figuring out how it doesn't dilute phase but increases them. Instead the Bruin move so people may or may not be a web so you you've moved from being part of WPP then a now Part of Bruin Sport. So just tell us about that. What does that bring to that? And how did that come about yeah? We're really excited to be part of the principals cocteau portfolio Ivan whether I were the first acquisition in the in the fund in fun too which was which was lost to the behind the last year. So we're really excited about that and humbled by the commitment on the face. They've shown us. Wpa was amazing Period for our business and we're delighted to continue to be The WPA group they retained an investment in business. This new setup we have that the plan ultimately was that we want to to We wanted to build the best business that we can build. They can have the biggest impact on the sports industry. We in collaboration with WPA that the place we can most effectively do that with with was in a private equity Operating Environment and do that with off writers with the credibility and the experience that burn boats table became a became a standout option for US business. So we were taught on not through the back into last year on a personal level. I struggle to to to to To describe it to Articulate how much effort or energy goes into into figuring out these transaction deals as a career. Latin it was Berlin. It was completely incompatible with my day job as well trying to be a CEO of of ground business but we got through it last year we had. We had a successful year as a business in in continuing to be a better business and I believe that Britain will help us accelerate out further where we can invest invest in teams investing our products investing our clients partner with our clients to the bill adventures that can accelerate the That will recognize. This is happening in helping quickly enough. And so he's he's America the big direction America's biggest sports marketing market in the world. So of course we'd like to build a really great business in America. And we're we're we're proud of what we've achieved cy. Father Added is our journey. But we do want to do more but you know if he bumped into two psychos today. The override sleep at a London pretty quickly. You know we. We've got offices in someone's own but never knows is cheap as I've gone off his hair. There never is much hottest build a sustainable business issue. What we're focused on. What is maybe the in the come? You might remember Gaza goes who made a profound impact on the on. The World of sports by helping sports rights owners become fit for this near age. I also had the if you bumped into. You wouldn't think Rosalie back to London. And were when we're working really hard to build businesses this genuinely global and under every on the market on the on the needs of that market relevant for that so so. We're we're focused geography. But were were. Were ready for a great business. Everywhere is there is a in terms of the sort of relative differences America and the UK in terms of its approach. To what your argument you know your your the two circles way if he like. Where is that? Because he's always there was always seemed to be different in in those two markets as a really different once. You get past the foul language. The seminar to stop in the changes are obvious. I think was so we've been really a humble in wardens going listen and lands in a couple of years that we've had a presence on the ground in in North America. We've we've been trying to figure that out. I'm very proud of the right shoes we built with with some of the biggest spoke Four for the six biggest properties in in North America sport. Now so we've we've been up to learn from the inside with those guys and build transformation. Transformation relationships outset with some of the biggest rights owners there are other commonalities language. Which is the data has the ability to reward as the businesses. They just get reward from a different standpoint so the US market being very reliant on a on a ticket sales approach as opposed to a ticket MOCKS IN APPROACH. You know historically the UK market was with ticket marketeers. We spent a lot of money on media and and had a boat and they'll come media based approach to selling tickets. We've helped them provide Barada below the line. Direct mocks approached assigns. proved much more fruitful in the US market. They've been a ticket sales approach. Where the kids on the phone trying to fill tickets Albany. That's not the most efficient or effective way to sell tickets and say we'll help again move to a more direct mocked. Him based approach delivers much stronger. Attribution and the same kind of seminars Bill Between Your era full moon but listen thanks garth Vietnam. I really appreciate it and hopefully the as I'm sure it will. The next few years will be as successful as the last soups and be safe. And Yeah thank. You appreciate appreciate all your help. You pull Love Him to thousand. We appreciate always stay welte technical.
Are Nonprofit Donor Disclosure Laws Constitutional?
"I'm jeffrey rosen. President and ceo the national constitution center and welcome to we the people who weekly show of constitutional debate. The national constitution center is a nonpartisan. Nonprofit chartered by congress to increase awareness and understanding of the constitution among the american people. The supreme court will hear arguments next week in an important case about the first amendment and owner disclosure laws. It's called americans for prosperity foundation against rodriguez and the case asked whether a policy of california attorney general's office that requires charities. Disclose the names and addresses of their. Major donors violates the first amendment joining us to discuss this case and its potential implications for the future of free. Speech are two of america's leading experts in the first amendment and nonprofit law. Cindy lot is an associate professor of professional practice at columbia university and also serves as academic program director for nonprofit management at the school of professional studies. She previously served as executive director and senior counsel to the national state attorneys general program at columbia law school and was the developer and lead counsel to the charities regulation and oversight project. She joined a brief of law. Professors filed in this case in support of the respondent. Cindy it is wonderful to have you on the show. Thanks for having me. Jeff and brian house is a staff attorney with the aclu speech privacy and technology project. He was previously a staff attorney with the center for liberty where he focused on combating religious refusals to comply with discrimination laws. He also spent two years as the. Aclu's william j. brennan first amendment fellow and he co authored an acl aclu brief filed in this case in support of the petitioner. Brian thank you so much for joining pleasure to be here. Jeff thanks for having me cindy. Let's begin by describing what this california donor. Disclosure law is. it's one of three active donor. Disclosure laws in the country. New york and hawaii also have similar laws. What does this law say. And why do you believe that is consistent with the first amendment. So thanks again for having me jeff. It's a pleasure to be here with you and brian. This is an important case for those of us that have studied and worked with in the nonprofit sector for a long time otherwise known as the charitable sector. Although they don't map exactly those definitions. I'm actually becomes an important point in this case so california not unlike new york and hawaii as with all states. They get some decision making on what they want to do. And require of charities that are doing business or doing slips fundraisings sedation within their borders. In this instance out of almost efficiency they have decided to ask for the scheduled. Be to the form. Nine ninety for my ninety is the tax return if you will in tax information that is sent to the required of charities that are exempt and so in this instance these three states have piggybacked on that requirement. In they're saying if you filed it at the federal level we're asking for you to file that as well at the state level states do have some distinguishing marks. If you will about how they can think about what they wanna require. But in this instance. They're asking for the exact same worm as the irs. Thank you so much for that. Brian what can you add to cindy's description of this law. Which as she says requires major donors to be disclosed to the state of california purposes of efficiency. She said. And why do you think it's not consistent with the first amendment. I think professor wanted a great job describing what the law does. But i i think there is a particular set of facts at issue. Here that are unique to california and that separate the situation In this case From the similar laws at the federal level and laws. In new york in hawaii. And that's the fact that for almost a decade going back to two thousand twelve California's had a history of inadvertently disclosing these schedule. Be donor information to the public. Posting in fact On their public website. Now there. i think there's no evidence or allegation at that was done intentionally. But the district court identified what it referred to as a pattern of inadvertent disclosure. Here and that that pattern continued actually up until the day before trial when the plaintiff's expert identified another thirty eight on schedule forms that had been inadvertently posted on the website. In addition to that the expert identified a certain security flaws that enabled them to collect all the documents that california maintains with regards to schedule. Be forms. think it's something in the tens of thousands simply by manipulating the url so there was a tremendous amount of evidence before the district court in this case That california had not done a good job of maintaining the confidentiality of these documents. Even though california is required by law to maintain confidentiality and. i think that goes to the first amendment problem here because one of the things courts have recognized is that when donor information association information becomes. Public people are naturally going to be chilled From associated with dissident groups or or potentially controversial groups and sell alternately charities on interacting with donors and civil society suffers from a less vibrant public sphere. When you have these sorts of public disclosures now in previous cases where the court has addressed this the public disclosure has been done. Usually by loss of the state was clear that it was intending to disclose this information publicly. There are fewer cases looking at these sort of inadvertent disclosures. We have here But we argued in our brief. Is that from the perspective of the charity. There's really no difference. If you're donors are afraid that their information is going to become public. Then they're going to be sold associated with you and that creates significant first amendment. Harm that needs to be addressed. Thanks so much for that. So cindy. Brian lays out his first amendment objections. That there is in california a record found by the district court of inadvertent disclosure of donor names. And that this might chill the willingness of donors to give to associational groups of violating principles recognized in cases like the naacp case which says that donor lists can remain anonymous. Because they didn't then people might not join the organizations in the first place. What is your response rate. So and i appreciate that. The associational rates afforded under the first amendment are absolute and They're buller democracy so it's incredibly important. There's a major distinction here now on the inadvertent disclosure that maybe historical which unfortunately is also part of some of technology in many sectors as we know even the irs data breaches as we know. It's actually the law in california that this cannot be disclosed and there would be problems if they were going against that. At this point the law if i recall correctly was actually enacted in two thousand sixteen and they have to that ever since there's major distinction between the acp case very much needed at the time there's even an amicus brief in this case from legal historians Distinguishing that case from what is happening here. One of the overlays that we are seeing in aa cpa. It was literally public disclosure. It was disclosure of all donors of the nwa c. P. to the state of alabama and it was intended to be made public that entire list. That is very distinguishable from what we're talking about here where this is actually what has been called disclosure all the way through this entire briefing cycle needs to be a distinction that this is actually reporting to the government and only to the government. That is the law in california. That is the law in new york and they adhere to that so here we have reporting requirements which we have in lots of different sectors whether it's the financial sector etc and it is not intended to be quote public disclosure and it's one of the areas that has really gotten traction in this case. Why i think there's a lot of attention paid. Is that this of course could create because there's an overlay here. With the way people think about public disclosure election law and that directly implicates the first amendment so the associational rights are huge. They are fundamental. Our civic space in philanthropy is also fundamental to the united states We're the largest philanthropic society in the world. those two things can coexist charities regulation and the first amendment. It's a matter of striking the balance and believe under the exacting scrutiny standard. Here that california has actually struck that balanced correctly through disclosure only to the government and not public and only very small cohort a substantial donors in its for uses for charitable oversight here as opposed to any malicious years. Brian rooney notes to important distinctions. Between this and the any case i that was mandatory public disclosure to all this is to the government and second this is major donors in any c. p. was the whole membership list. First of all step back tell us more about the acp case. Your brief is cosigned by charlene. Ifo president and director general the acp legal defense and education filed the aclu acp. Co filed is brief. So tell us about what was it stays there. And why you think that the principle of an acp in fact covers this case so in nwa she versus alabama the attorney general of alabama was seeking to enforce state law against the nwpp basically arguing that the n. Double acp was operating legally in the state and the immediately got you know a a trs. Basically saying that the nwa cpi deceased operating and the ad nibley cpi was trying to fight that immediate or that the state court had entered. And said you know. Look we're happy to comply with all of alabama's requirements for operating within the state we're going to provide you all the documentation for that Etcetera and the alabama. Trade general responded. Well we also want all your membership lists in the end of lacy. Hey wait a minute. There's no reason you need our membership lists for anything. We've already told you we're gonna do everything we need to do. To comply with the law. We're not going to be out of violation. Any sort of way in the memberships are completely irrelevant to the inquiry. And the attorney general basically said. Well i want anyways. And the district court found the end of the lacey pe- in contempt for refusing to disclose its membership lists. And so that's the ruling that ultimately wait made its way up to the supreme court in the supreme court said that the nwa c. p. Could not be forced to disclose its membership lists under those circumstances in what the supreme court recognized is that expression political expression depends on association. An association depends on associational privacy. On what recognize that. If if the nwpp disclosed its membership lists the attorney general There is a very good chance that information was going to become public Based on repeated instances of that happening in the past and there was evidence that the nwa see members would be subject to threats harassment and reprisals on in alabama if their identities and their associations with the end of lease. Ep were made public in that. Because the attorney general had no real reason for requiring this information the nwa c could not be required to disclose it under those circumstances. Now i understand professor a lot to be saying that you know one of the big distinctions between nwc p. alabama. And this case is that there you know is it was basically understood even if it was not technically in the in the law. Anywhere that the end of nwcg's membership information would become public and here It's not certainly not required under california law tech. It's prohibited under california law to release on the schedule. Be donor information But i think there we have to recognize that there's a distinction between was written on the law. The books and what's actually happened here. Which is that tremendous amounts of sensitive donor. Information has been made public and at this point given the recency of those disclosures. I think the owners would very reasonably say. Well i'm i'm that although the california attorney general says that they're not gonna do this going forward that those assurances are are not enough to give me confidence that that might confidential information or remain private in i think the attorney general's representative in the district court even testified that no employees have been disciplined for the inadvertent disclosure of this information. Even though it's illegal under california law. So i think the court has to look at those practical realities Which is that. There has been a long history of inadvertent disclosure. Here until california gets its act together. It's reasonable for donors to be concerned that despite california officially prohibiting the release of this information under that's still going to happen and i think that goes to you know. One of the particular features of privacy harms is that the bell can't be on rung right once that information is disclosed once it's become available to the public. There's no way to put the horseback in the barn right. So under those circumstances I think it's reasonable for the court to say if you're gonna continue to require charities to disclose this information knowing that it's going to chill on their relationships with donors you have to show that the information is basically necessary to completing your investigations and what the district court found here is that the attorney general had not submitted on compelling evidence that scheduled the information was necessary for the charitable fraud investigations that the office was conducting. I think it had identified no case Where the schedule be information was pivotal. I think identified somewhere between five and ten cases. There's some dispute on this between the parties where the attorney general reviewed scheduled the information in in conjunction with an investigation over five hundred forty investigations over the past ten years right so in ten years we have between five and ten investigations were attorney. General was directly looking at this information that they could identify now. I don't feel that the information is even if they're not using it in particular investigations. It may still be very useful. But that's not the kind of showing of need that can overcome was basically public disclosure requirement. At this point now maybe five to ten years down the road. California's gotten act together. A lower standard of scrutiny applies. And i you know i think. Under those circumstances disclosure requirement might be constitutional. That would be a very different case from the one we have here cindy response to bryan's argument that functionally this is the equivalent of disclosure requirement. Because of the history of disclosure and also say more about the district court's finding that this was not necessary to please charitable fraud only five times and a decade was the information consulted and it could have been available in other ways and in particular. Help me understand how. The national constitution center would be regulated outside of california. Some of our donors want to remain anonymous. Because they're patriotic who don't want to disclose their names if we were suspected of fraud in pennsylvania would pennsylvania just issue a subpoena to get us to turn over our records or how things work in the majority of states. That don't have these donor. disclosure laws. So brand has mentioned a number of factual findings here that the district court found in this case the other way on appeal and i actually would refer you to the california breath for. They make very clear at some of the issues that they had with a waste of questions were asked him what evidence they were actually told that they could submit based on the questions that were asked about how many cases they hit us schedule the etc i want to step back for a moment and talk a little bit about why this matters to states particularly on which is a different type of interest and you could definitely tell that when you look at the us. Elissa general's amicus brief hear. What the different reasons are and the basis for the substantial and compelling government interest here so states actually have the bulk of jurisdiction over charities in this country. Many many people have the mistaken. Believe that it's the irs congressional authority through the irs gives tax exempt status at the federal level. Right but you also get exempt status at the state level. And it's at the state level that the bulk of all governance is overseen. This is also where basic bread and butter fraud misrepresentation abuse of warm etc. All takes place at the state level. And one of the reasons that i got involved in doing research in this space that i as an attorney i was looking at this and as a person who teaches in these areas. I was concerned that we didn't actually have a full understanding of what goes on at the state level and we have much better understanding of what happens at the federal level people keep up with the audit rates. They look the. Gao looks deeply looking different aspects. For example of what is happening at the federal level across all charities across states what we didn't really understand is the differences among the states and also how states often now particularly start working together on multi state actions which is very common within the attorney general world on consumer protection and other kinds of sectors. So in looking at this you will see that states get decide how best to think about given the policies of their states given the resources of their states given the different demographic makeup of the charitable activity that goes on in their states. But what we do know. Is it a lot of this. Law actually comes from common law. This exists. i mean. There's a reason that term charitable trust exists in common law. It is literally based on trust that when someone is giving resources whether that's in-kind cash whatever it is to a person and organization that is representing that will do something with that for a mission right when that money is put into what i call the donated stream. It is the attorney general's office in every single state in dc and the territories that has primary jurisdiction to make sure that those resources stay in that stream and that is where we get into how they decide to do that. So in this instance. The state has decided that it is going to utilize scheduled be because it is very efficient to use what the irs has already collected from these organizations the us listener general's offices at they're covered because there is a government subsidy given through tax exemption and therefore they can ask for this type of information notably california actually doesn't have that in their brief and part of the reason is you don't have to have a formal tax exemption in any states for this because common launches charitable trust law kick sent as soon as somebody has donated to a mission driven organization that says it is going to use those resources for something bigger than itself. That's the difference between four profit law and not for profit law right. It's going to be used for mission based entity or a purpose and once that happens you now have a trust. And even these attorney generals jurisdiction and at that point. That's where the states get to decide how they wanna do this. You'll also known in this case that there's an amicus brief from other state attorneys general. Don't believe that this is necessary for oversight and they're allowed to think that they don't have to use it for oversight if they don't want i'm working on research right now around a regulatory breadth index. The shows just how different states are in many of the ways that they deal with your edible oversight and this is just one example. Thank you so much for a brand new. Cindy give a very thoughtful argument for why especially at the state level. These donor disclosure requirements might make sense to ensure that organizations are fulfilling their mission and using the funds as they're meant to what's the argument on the other side that the plaintiffs in these cases involved two the american for prosperity foundation closely associated with the coke brothers and the thomas more law center or conservative law firm that promotes the judeo christian heritage. Is the argument here that some donors might not give to those organizations if they feared that their names would be in-inverently disclosed. I point jeff. I agree with professor lot completely. Actually that the you know the review schedule information on can be very useful for enforcing charitable trust laws. And so. that's why you know. We suggested in our brief that at the lower end of exacting scrutiny if california had not had a history inadvertently disclosing this information if california's more like new york or more like the irs. The collection this information might very well survived. The lower end of exacting scrutiny but more stringent scrutiny applies here because california has this history of inadvertent disclosure at the higher end. Exacting scrutiny of the state has to present a more compelling showing than it would otherwise. And i think the fact that the vast majority of the state attorneys general are able to execute their duties Without collecting schedule be information suggests that it's not absolutely necessary. It might be very very useful. And i think you know california. New york may very well be within their rights to say that it's actually you know whatever minimal chill occurs when somebody discloses information on a confidential basis to the government is justified by the utility of the government's access to the information. I think that could be a very persuasive argument. I don't think that the the showing year has been sufficient to justify the collection of this information without adequate safeguards and so the bottom line. Here really is that. If you want to collect this information you have to keep it confidential and that ensures that you know california can't externalize the the costs of its privacy failures right when when california failed to protect the privacy of nonprofits donors. it's the nonprofits and the donors in civil society that suffers not necessarily the attorney general's office And so by saying the attorney general If you collect this information you're going to have to keep it confidential or you're going to lose that power it incentivizes the state to enact and implement consistently adequate privacy protections to make sure that this information doesn't leak on with regard to your second point about you know the the nature of the groups in this case It is true that you know the both of the groups in this case are identified as as conservative or libertarian The americans for prosperity foundation. You know put a significant amount of evidence in the record That their members and donors And employees have been subject to threats harassment and reprisals because of their affiliation with the americans for prosperity foundation. obviously on there are many people Who disagree strongly with the coke. Brothers political philosophy. I happen to be one of those people And unfortunately some people take their disagreement onto a personal place And that's the kind of thing that can show people from associating the future now. That's not just a problem for groups on the right right. That's a problem for groups across the political spectrum. It's historically been a problem for the aclu. Historically it's certainly been a problem for the nwa c. p. And so that's why even though we disagree very strongly often With groups like the americans for prosperity foundation the thomas more law center We felt it was important to file on this case because at the end of the day first amendment rights are indivisible The government can take them away from one group they can inevitably take them away from everybody else. City what is your response to that powerful statement first rights are indivisible and more broadly to the concern about harassment and retaliation we see that voiced not only in naacp but in cases like dove versus. Read where a majority of the court upheld a disclosure requirement for a washington state referendum required. That everyone who signs a petition to put something on the ballot in washington state provide their names and addresses. Although the court upheld that requirement justice thomas filed a powerful dissent talking about the dangers of retaliation the idea that when you to an unpopular organization or controversial one or or signing controversial or unpopular petition. You may be subject to retaliation be chilled. What's your response. Two responses to what brian was saying. I really appreciate his comments on allows me actually to give a moment. Debriefing of asap in case is not landing. Nearly as much as brian. Saying at this point in terms of the california could have gotten it right if they only did it like newark. This might be okay there very much saying just on. its face. This facially unconstitutional and that is really the issue. That is before the court here. It is not about past in inverted disclosures nor is it necessarily even about the now codified longhouse wearing it that this is not to be disclosed. Were even the immediate past practice. It's not about that. It's about the actual legal question before the court is around whether or not this infringes upon the very fundamental agreed with both of you Fundamental association rates afforded by the first amendment. And in this case the question because this is why the standard of review has been noted so much in the briefs is that we've got gotta make sure we get that part right at the court is really on. Board with the exacting scrutiny. Because that's sliding scale is we're talking about is what really is at one of the major questions. Here has california done it correctly. I would submit that they have. They could actually do many different things as i mentioned in the fact that they have actually utilized the same form as the. Irs is notable for efficiency because they are actually trying to clear in volt standard by saying look. We're asking for the exact aid saying even though we may be utilizing it's Differently in terms of our jurisdiction is for oversight. Right where you're getting into questions you're talking about now with public disclosure in election law and this is really one of the main reasons as we've noted that this case is getting so much traction. I have only half jokingly said that i have been working in the charities regulation space for many many years and i can assure you that i've never gotten as many press calls because i have around this case. And that's because it's not really only about charities regulation this is where some of what i call the murkiness of dealing with nonprofit law in what his first amendment law particularly as seen through the vehicle of election law comes in. I have done political lawyering. I was i came up through the age of mccain feingold and i understand the distinctions and the relationship among many empties. And i think this case if there's a silver lining to the fact that it's even happening across a large landscape of substantive issues is it it's really highlighting what i consider almost a collision course that we have been headed on between some of nonprofit law charities oversight with election law because there has been murkiness and the corporate form that is a nonprofit is not the same exactly. As charitable substantive law charities can invoke jurisdiction of states even without having tax exemption without even having a particular report swarm and this is where we're getting into the issues around citizens united because within that decision which was based on a c. four five. Oh one c. four or nonprofits just like five threes. The court was using nonprofit to mean that issue but that particular entity but for the charitable sector. We concerned about this a long time. Because it really helps make even murkier. The distinctions of what we do nonprofit law and what's considered quote disclosure to the government were to the public depending on what aspect we're dealing with versus election law disclosure which is generally understood to mean to the public. And of course. That's where you get into. What could be a associational harms etc. Absolutely agreed that those can be major. And that's what. The court has undertaken in election law. Where now asking if that may be addressed. We don't know yet if the supreme court's going to address that in this case as well many thanks for that and thank you for flagging the citizens united case brian. We've been playing hamlet without the prince as they say burying lead by waiting until this point to mention citizens united but in citizens united although five justices struck down parts of campaign finance laws. Eight justices upheld disclosure laws. They said government has brought authority to require advocacy groups to disclose their major funders and justice. Kennedy said disclosure requirements should be upheld as long as there's a substantial relation between the disclosure requirement and a sufficiently important government interest. So how could the court invalidates the donor disclosure laws here while continuing to uphold political disclosure requirements in the citizens united contact jeff. I'm afraid this might not be that interesting of debate for your listeners. Because i i happen to agree with professor on on just about everything she just said. The first point is that You know the groups that signed arbery facial you brief part ways with americans for prosperity foundation on the thomas more law center in in that we believe that as applied relief on is the relief that should be granted here in that and that tayshia relief is on inappropriate That's partly because as we've already discussed california's this relatively unique situation of inadvertent disclosures. I'm going back several years. Other states in the federal government. Don't have also because you know a large number of groups aren't going to be shelled frankly by the disclosure on of their donor information And so you know we think the best path forward is basically for groups that are likely to be chilled by the disclosure of this information or the threatened disclosure of this information to seek as applied exemptions from california's regime but to leave the law. Facially in place on that also allows the court to adjust the ruling If several years go by and california Hasn't had any inadvertent scotia's for a long time. At that point it might be perfectly constitutional for california to collect this information from everybody so we think that the relief in this case needs to be very carefully tailored to specific harm which is history of inadvertent disclosure Turning to how. This case intersects with campaign finance law We also argued on in our briefing. We thought it was very important to remind the court That it has previously found in numerous cases including citizens united that the public disclosure of donor information in the campaign. finance contexts serves a compelling governmental interest and is the least restrictive needs for cheating that interest because it is necessary for the public to know what interest groups are weighing in the political process. You know especially when they're engaging in express advocacy on behalf of or in opposition to candidates or or when they're engaging in electioneering communications In the period immediately before an election the public has a compelling interest in knowing where that money is coming from and so under those circumstances public disclosure requirements are constitutional. The court is consistently recognized that. And we don't think that it should use this case as an opportunity. to erode The president has already built up in that area. Thank you for that. Brian. saying that both agree that citizens united's upholding of disclosure requirements should be maintained in the electioneering context because as citizens court suggests there is a compelling interest in people knowing about political donors to avoid corruption. But you're disagreeing here about whether or not there's a similar compelling interest in enforcing the laws against fraud or two response so a couple of things and i agree with brian that it may be somewhat boring because it's not only he and i did agree on this. Any number of folks on either side of this case agreed that they would not like this expanded to the election. Scenario right the real issue is how it's being applied or the very fact that it exists in the charities regulation space whether it's the facial challenge the as applied challenge so in looking at this. The state believes. I think this would be true for any state that wanted to adopt using the schedule. Be and again. That's just one example of what is being utilized. If you go to this larger issue of whether or not states can ask for this type of information. Only to be reported to the state not publicly disclosed. I can't stress that enough inadvertent. Aside in what brian. Aclu very much landed on the legal issue here is whether or not the state asking for this information to be reported actually infringes on the association rights afforded by the first amendment. In this case it is a substantial government interest. Give you another reason. Why it's not just fried. This is one of the main ways that financial information is checked right. In addition over the years the states have actually started communicating much much more across states because with technology. We have many different forms of solicitation happening. Now that we're never envisioned when we first started looking at this and having these laws come around five six hundred years ago. That's how old were dealing with. Some charitable trust law so. The state believes that they are and i agree narrowly tailored what it is that they are asking for here. Just do they can do all sorts of checks as with all law enforcement We have all sorts of sectors. Dude is that require regulatory reporting requirements. This is just one of them. None of this is to be publicly disclosed. Which is the main distinction with election law and that has been really where we have gotten into a citizens united adjacent situation. If you will many many people interested in this and in our you know we don't know exactly what why the supreme court took certain this case. We don't know if they're going to have a very narrow ruling that affects only california to brian's point That would only affect how california goes about doing its particular oversight within that state but also they could take it and go much broader. Which is what happened in. Citizens united right and really took that to make a much larger statement about the first amendment And about what is considered speech these donations disclosure etc. And so we will see we know that it may have a a huge impact on how we think about charitable regulation and what states can actually require we actually also as scholars wreath disagreed with u s solicitor general spree. That said that if this is struck down for california that it has no impact on the irs utilizing schedule be the reality. Is that the fed and the state. Regulatory regimes have what i call. It's an interlocking framework. But they can't be completely dependent on each other because they have very different reasons at times swore their oversight and what they're supposed to be doing in their oversight so there if we're both those regimes are using schedule be It would be hard to imagine. How only california would be impacted by this Not just the fed but also other states and thinking about how they wanna do this and also just mentioned that there is a very substantial reason. Why new york in california Half as we have found empirically some The highest robustness if you will on regulatory breadth index and that's because they have the most nonprofits every sake is to decide how they want to do regulation and oversight of businesses or corporate entities or charitable trusts the do have activity in their state. Whether they're inc there are not and for california new york they have a huge number of nonprofits as a percentage across united states. Brian one test of whether the court goes now abroad will be the standard of scrutiny. That it adopts dear we the people listeners. They're not a lot of standard of scrutiny and constitutional law but the standard for strict scrutiny. And and here's the jargon. Is that the law in question has to be necessary to achieve a compelling governmental interest but in this case and in citizens united the court applied something called scrutiny. The difference between strict and exacting is the test and the test for executive scrutiny demands a substantial relation between the requirement and the sufficiently important governmental interests note the difference necessary to achieve a compelling governmental interest or substantially related to an important governmental interest brian. What hangs in this pretty technical sounding distinction and mike at the supreme court. And why did the ninth circuit adopt this slightly lower standard in evaluating his law and might the supreme court ratchet up standard and actually apply strict. Scrutiny so i think the difference is important because people have often recognized. Strict scrutiny is strict in theory and often fatal in fact it is a very very unforgiving. Standard among laws are subject to strict scrutiny. They're almost always on struck down as unconstitutional. The government has to show in in making the least restrictive means showing. The government has to demonstrate that no other less restrictive means exists. That could possibly vindicate the government's interest if the plaintiff can identify one. The government automatically loses exacting scrutiny on the other hand in that exacting scrutiny is the test that the court has traditionally applied onto the compelled disclosure of associational information. with the night circuit recognized. Here is that exacting screen a much more flexible standard And as we are getting our brief it's actually a sliding scale standard and so when the privacy harm likely chill to first amendment association. Expression interest is low Exacting scrutiny is a relatively forgiving standard. It might be closer. To intermediate scrutiny where the supreme court often a polls regulations on speech or association however where the chill first amendment interest is significant exacting scrutiny rashes up and gets much closer to strict scrutiny in practice and what we argue here is that when the government has enacted public disclosure laws that a form of exacting scrutiny. Closer to strict scrutiny applies because the court recognizes that when sensitive associational information is disclosed to the public. The risk of threats harassment. Reprisals is so great. That chill is much more likely to occur. To people are much less likely to associate with controversial or dissident groups if they're afraid that their information is going to become public. And so here where you have a history of inadvertent public disclosure. We argue that. Stringent form of exacting scrutiny is appropriate and the government has to show not only that it has a very very significant interest but also that alternative means of achieving. That interest are close to unworkable. Or very tata's factory in practice So some of the alternatives at the plants identified here for example Individualized subpoenas to groups that the government is investigating. The government would have to show that a subpoena process is totally ineffective interests. And here i think. The district court found that the government had not made that showing it had not shown That resort to individualize measures. When it's investigating particular charities Would be an effective at enabling the government to fulfill its police powers. Cindy is there a possibility that the. Us supreme court might choose to apply. Strict scrutiny rather than exacting scrutiny to these disclosure requirements given the new justices who've joined the court since citizens united was decided. And if so would that call into question. Disclosure requirements not only here but also under citizens united. Well i can't the court could do anything. I'm certainly this court understands federalism and the ability of states to do different things in the federal government does but i would say that brands argument. I would actually use as minus. Well which is the very fact. This exacting scrutiny. Even if you are to take it it's on the high end of the sliding scale per brian's comment in election situation like sharing where it is literally public disclosure. You are letting the public know the transparency. There is actually the thing that you're going for. And that's why that level of scrutiny. In this instance it's not public it is only to the government and it's using the exact same document that the federal government is asking for as well so if anything that would lower i mean because there's less risk here they're not asking for public disclosure of all of these names to the general public. I'll note that there is actually an amicus brief in good company here that the floyd clinic a yale law school came in You know said either way. But their belief is yeah. We'll go with exact scrutiny. But here we actually think the california this is workable. Let me make another point about why this may be unworkable to the point of talking about subpoenas etcetera after the fact from gets a little bit back to your question jeff. Every state can do it differently. So i don't wanna ask answer the specific question. How pennsylvania for example might handle this but there is a major Underlying legal rationale behind some of this at a lot of escape. A lot of folks even lawyers in this case That don't function specifically with a nonprofit law unlike in consumer protection and other forms Other sectors other forms of law in charitable law only the attorney general for the most part with very few exceptions has standing to bring a suit. This goes back. Many hundreds of years under the normal parents patriot doctrine that in a charitable trust situation only the a g and actually bring suit and straighten out these types of issues. Your average person on the street can't bring a lawsuit after they've donated twenty dollars to a mission driven organization wants it's been represented that they're twenty dollars is going to go for example safe. The greyhounds is the example. I gave my students. Unlike in a consumer protection case where i go buy a blender for twenty dollars and it doesn't work or harms me. I have a right of action and if enough people have broken blenders or it doesn't or it harms them. They can get a class action together. We don't do that. In the charitable sector. The attorneys attorney. General's office is it. So when you talk about whether something is workable if they don't have the information on the front end to even be able to look and see whether there is something potentially amiss now. We have a very different circumstance. In addition my own research has shown in. We've got Data on this in a two thousand sixteen study that i did through urban institute and that is that much of the enforcement. That goes on. serena is what i call quiet enforcement. They're trying to kill off the charity. They're trying to figure what went wrong so that they can still make sure that they direct the charitable assets to mission that was represented dance often a distinction as well. It's very quiet. You don't find as many lawsuits in this area straight up from a state against a particular organization unless it's a complete sham right which the ftc's jurisdiction would be invoked so these are differences that make for reality check on whether something is workable to simply try to have a state figure out what's going on and then ask for subpoenas. They have the right to ask subpoena. But i they just need basic regulatory filing information. And that's all this is not unlike other sectors. The question is what is done with it. It's only utilize at the government level and that lessens the possibility associational harm dramatically. Brian one less interventional have closing arguments. Four of the justices who voted for disclosure requirements and citizens united have left court and three have been replaced by more conservative justices. Is there a possibility that this court might be inclined to apply strict scrutiny to all disclosure requirements and to strike them down in the election as well as the nonprofit context and what would abroad ruling in this case. Look like i would. Frankly be surprised if the supreme court were to overrule decades of precedent from both liberal and conservative courts holding that exacting scrutiny is the relative relevant standard in this context and and to apply a whole new strict scrutiny standard a regime where that has never applied before. You know i understand this. Court you know is is revising. Its holdings In certain areas of the law But i have not seen any appetite to revise on the level of judicial scrutiny. that's applied To disclosure requirements. And and. I don't think it's necessary to reach the right and just result. In this case i think would be very counterproductive. It would throw the doctrine into chaos and it would Potentially implicate on a professor suggested you know laws across the country in all fifty states not the federal government level. And i don't see the court looking to create that kind of turbulence here. The the exacting scrutiny standard has been a workable standard for half a century. I don't think there's any need to revisit that standard now in in in one of the things One of the reasons these acting stance standard has succeeded for so long as precisely because it is flexible. It allows the court to take into account different circumstances and adjust the level of scrutiny. That's applied accordingly. On and. I think this case is a perfect example of that. In example of why the exacting scrutiny standard should continue to apply to all compelled disclosure requirements. Well it is time for closing arguments in this fascinating discussion. And cindy the the first one is to you. Why is the americans for prosperity against rodriguez case important. Unwashed at our listeners. Hear about it well. I appreciate the opportunity again. I an important case if you only had it on the charitable regulatory piece of this If that were the only aspect it's still important in order to make sure that we are clear on what states are allowed to do in the charitable religious. Ray arena As it happens it has also raised these other issues that we've talked about today. And i suppose as i said there's a silver lining here to this case going up. It's that there might actually be a moment. Where some of the murkiness that. His now crept in from some of election issues. Election law c. three c. four split etc. Some of that murkiness It is possible that the court could address something Some aspect of that here. That might actually move along. How we think about nonprofit sometimes being utilized It they're nonprofit form for things that are not really mission based We have seen that in so that's not squarely at issue here. We could have a very narrow. Tailoring under the exacting scrutiny. Standard california has met it. This is not a public disclosure. This is only to the state they are using the same form and they're abiding by their own law and how they are doing that other states could follow suit or we could have others drop off from using this but they could be utilizing other forms of regulatory reporting requirements and this decision actually could impact those as well not just the schedule beast so it's important for our sector that way but again if they go broad on the ruling here it could implicate other things either make it more murky for us as a sector as a charitable sector or it could actually elucidate some things and give some guidance that we've been seeking ever since citizens united in particular came around brian. The last word is to you. Why is the americans for prosperity case import and watch our listeners. Gary about it. So i think this is an important case a narrow case and it's important that it be a narrow case so i to the importance of the case this is important because associational rights are important and associational. Privacy is necessary to protect associational freedoms when the government is going to require charitable organizations to disclose sensitive association information. The government has a reciprocal obligation to keep that information confidential itself where the government fails in that duty as california has failed here. It should lose the power at least temporarily to continue requiring organizations to disclose their donors if the government doesn't have that sort of accountability. We're going to continue to see. Inadvertent disclosures of sensitive information. Nonprofits will lose the support of their donors and civil society. As a whole is ultimately gonna suffer. Now all that said we're up here on a very specific factual situation. That seems to be unique to california right now so i don't think the court needs to go beyond the particular circumstances presented here which are highly relevant to the application of the exacting scrutiny standard To decide this case correctly and uphold the first amendment rights of nonprofits and their donors if the court were to go beyond those bounds and to pine on the disclosure of donor information the campaign finance context for example or the government's power To collect nonprofits. I'm sensitive information even when the government promises to keep it confidential. It risks disrupting other areas of the law that have remained settled for decades and and the court should not take this case as an opportunity to do that. Thank you so much cindy. Lot and brian house for a civil rich and really illuminating discussion of the important first amendment issues raised by americans for prosperity against rigas and its companion case. Thomas more society. Versus rodriguez cindy brian. Thank you so much for joining thank you. thanks jeff. Today show was engineered by kevin kilburn produced by jackie. Mcdermott and lana rick. Research was provided by mac. Taylor lana orrick please. Rate reviewing subscribed to people on apple podcasts and recommend the show to friends colleagues or anyone anywhere. Who's hungry for weekly dose of constitutional debate and always remember that. The national constitution center is a private nonprofit. We rely on the generosity but people from across the country were inspired by our nonpartisan mission of constitutional education and debate. You can support the mission by becoming a member at constitution center dot org slash membership or give it a nation of any amount to support our work including his podcast constitution center dot org forward slash donate on behalf of the national constitution center. I'm jeffrey rosen.
Time Machine: Buchanan v. Warley (1917)
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And your work on track with click up click up is a flexible productivity platform where you can prioritize tasks collaborate on docks check with your team and track goals all in one place. It's completely customizable and it's free forever. so try. Click today at click up dot com slash fox. We need some time machine effects. I don't remember dillon doing this. Is this a prank. are you pranking. Also if you don't do it you might feel like livia and get caught in the time machine. Hello welcome to another episode of the weeds. The bucks media podcast network. I'm matthew yglesias here with derek lynn jerusalem dempsey's and we are doing a another. It's going to be the final weeds. Time machine episode. At least our. But i had a lot of fun with this that we got a lot of requests to do a lot of other. Historical moments is a lot of great choices out. There are a lot of famous moments american history. Because i'm a little perverse. I am going to have to a not famous moment in american policy. History We are gonna be cranking. The time machine back to the year nineteen sixteen In which the supreme court issued a decision buchanan v wardley Which related to a topic near and dear to my heart as zoning and they said that you cannot use zoning to enforce racial segregation which is interesting. Both because civil rights was not a big thing in the nineteen sixteen era american politics equality in the decision we will see. They actually are like a quite pains to say that like. They're still super racist. They will not allow this sounding provisions and then a few years later in nineteen twenty six. We get village of euclid. V amber realty company in which the litigant their tries to say. Look you can't do this zoning against multifamily residences when they're citing these similar precedents that there's property rights etc but the supreme court gives a thumbs up to all kinds of exclusionary zoning practices as long as they are facially race neutral. We're quite familiar. With the idea of like facially race neutral policies nevertheless having disparate impacts or perhaps having clear discriminatory intent there's a lot of legal doctrine round that but the fact that this sort of emerged so early before the civil rights movement before the civil rights act of for world war two means that the land use code actually kind of had this whole system kind of built into it before we started making major policy changes around raising racism in a way that i think is interesting and has left us with that fraud legacy so we are going to enter the time machine do some jurisprudence. None of us are lawyers. So i think that's probably better but you never know let's go on. I promise we gotta do. The sound effect doesn't work without the sound effects. Okay we're setting the weeds time machine for the middle of world war one litigation. Here we go one of these days. I remember to seatbelt the time machine but is not that day matt spillover. So here we are. We are in louisville kentucky. Nine hundred sixteen felony buchanan. A white guy east trying to sell his house to a black-tie the worley There in louisville and louisville has an ordinance that says that if the majority of residents on block or white person can move in to that jurisdiction so the local court tries to block the sale. There's various lawsuits about it The kentucky court of appeal says yes. This is fine. They go to the supreme court and the supreme court at this time has two conflicting strands of jurisprudence is important to understand. This been explained to be once as like an early. Civil rights case but in important ways is not the supreme court in plessey ferguson. And a couple of other related cases at this point had said that segregation is fine. That you could maybe do a narrow lawsuit arguing that you haven't been given equal segregated accommodations but segregation is great. It's a totally legitimate. Government function were all in on civil rights. Cases have already happened in which the court largely guts. The original reconstruction era civil rights laws. By saying look private property owners can do what they want. The also have these other cases that we often shorthand as lochner saying that private property rights are really import. They're really into freedom of contract at this point in time and they're very skeptical of like minimum wage laws and other kinds of regulations. They're saying look. You have a right to do what you want. And buchanan's case here is really that is a lochner style property rights case not really a racial justice case. And he's trying to say look man. It's my house. I can sell it to want to and should we import agrees with that. I mean the the one place where they get into. I guess the racial justice apiece is that they say look segregation is fine but we have all these white people in louisville who have black maids and other stuff like that so there is no bona fide. Public interest in this kind of spatial segregation. That people are trying to uphold here and so it's a little hard for me to say that the opinion is like not actually that detailed but they are basically saying on the basis of housekeepers and nannies that this vision of segregation is kind of bad faith and that louisville does not have a public security interest. I mean again. I'm trying to do the opinion. Do my view they say that like segregated schools are segregated. Train cars have some public safety benefit. Or you're trying to prevent mrs nation So that's fine. According to them the keeping black neighbors out they say is not a legitimate and that property rights Need to triumph here something. That's that's important. Is that in the sort of lawyer universe. I dunno supposed to but the tradition is to see this case as an example of bad property rights. Jurisprudence that this is part of the pre progressive reactionary. Supreme court doesn't allow business regulation. And if you say that this is an example of the supreme court doing something good the kind of at least like conventional progressive take is that that's wrong and that this later euclid case is good that this is the supreme court embracing regulation and modernism. But part of the gimmick of the time machine. Right is that at least at the time. I don't think people understood how this historiographer was going to develop and at a minimum. I'm sure mr wildly was probably glad that the swim court. Let him by the howson. Move into this block and we see that at least at this point in time there was less residential segregation than there came to be later on and one of the things that i think is interesting with these cases because often i think people think about civil rights cases as coming into being because you know someone just could finally gets fed up and they decide to sue. But like william worley is like an attorney for the nwpp in this like clearly a plan enterprise. They've entered into and often learn about this. History has just like rosa. Parks was just really tired and she decided not to get up that day. It's like no. This is like a plan. Civil rights actions that was leading towards creating case law. That would eventually change the fundamentals there but more on the property rights thing. I think it is very obvious here that they're not really trying to weigh in on this question of what rights black people have especially because the orden's itself while it says that you know a black person cannot buy a home on the street that has eight out of ten houses are owned by white people. It also says that white people cannot own homes or buy homes on a street that has eight hundred black people so facially. It's couched in his language of rain neutrality. And from a perspective of people who are probably lying to themselves level but like clearly are in the language talking about segregation like it is some sort of public good and talking about how if there is race mixing. There's going to be the sort of necessary violence that's going to occur from that lynching or other kinds of moths or riots or things like that and it's interesting too because the conception of property rights that comes out of this decision which is that you know properties more than just like what someone owns. It's like includes the ability to acquire it to sell it to use it. How you wanna do when we think about moving to the twenty century how people think about property rights now very much like you are not allowed to build like an eighty you on your property and most of america. You're not allowed to turn your home into several apartments or anything like that but what this case is saying is that of course. You should be allowed to do that. And i think it's really interesting the evolution of what we think of when we say someone owns a home has changed drastically from what the supreme court is saying now to what they end up saying much later on. The thing that i would note is while it's true that like the jurisprudential history of this is not a civil rights history like hey what jerusalem saying is important like at the time impact litigators at the end of lacey. Pe- understood that this was a way in which they could get the supreme court to embrace a civil rights agenda which is important because it indicates that there are people who are savvy enough to understand the civil rights implications of the jurisprudence. The court makes which is going to be super relevant when we get to the second ruling. We're talking about. But the other thing i would say is that it is in one important. Respect reminiscent of the way we have talked about racism and the civil rights and post civil rights era because the freezing that the court uses is that the way they characterize the louisville. Ordinance is that it's based on a feeling of race hostility and that is unacceptable as a sufficient basis for a law and that really sounds very similar to the modern post civil rights kind of mainstream or nor me understanding of racism. Which is that. it's a feeling of racial animus and obviously animus is not a sufficient reason for a law but that once it's something that is not about the feelings of individual people once it's part of a rationalized process to us you know some of the language of progressive reforms of the time then you're sidestepping the whole idea of feelings of racial hostility which creates an opportunity space. When you're using language that is that limited in scope. I think that's absolutely right. It's interesting that you know. This is part of a litigation strategy because eventually obviously where the civil rights movement wants to go forty fifty years after this is into a lot of regulation of private businesses. Right i mean this is like the main point of the sixty four civil rights act really is to say that hotels and restaurants and other businesses can't maintain segregation policies. We have a lot of employment discrimination law over the past fifty sixty years but at this time they're arguing on this sort of different terrain right in which a strong property rights arguments serves their purposes. And you see the justice. It's a unanimous opinion which i think is worth underscoring because it matters. Sort of how this goes. I mean the whole case was set up to have it be white plaintiffs and it is very much written as a decision that look. It's the white homeowners rights who've been violated here. I think that was how the litigators thought. They were most likely to win the case they were cognizant of sort of civil rights benefits that they hoped would flow from it and the justices. They're great pains to distinguish this from other things that have gone by this this whole era that i think we don't talk about that much in contemporary societies. Sort of between this case and brow on in which The nwc p. Other plaintiffs bring a lot of civil rights cases. That don't question. The sort of plessey precedent. There's one i was reading about. Where a congressman from chicago. He's got a first class train ticket from chicago to new orleans and when the train reaches kentucky or someplace in the south they like kick him out of the first class car because he has to go to the colored car and so he sues and he says look like they didn't have a first class car for black people and so they are not upholding. The sort of tenants of separate buddy while this like years and years of litigation. It's not a practical solution to the problem of somebody on a train But he wins. The case ultimately that the railroad essentially can't maintain segregation in the first class passenger car. Because it would not be economical to have two of them and every single train and so it continues to build up this kind of universe in which you chip away at some of the forms of jim crow while leaving intact a lot of de facto segregation either through restrictive covenants. Which i think most people have heard a little bit about today but also they have this other case village of euclid the amber realty company which is a similar property rights. Question right. it's like. Can you tell the realty company that they can't build apartment buildings in the suburbs of cleveland. And this report is already said. But you can't say will you can't sell the house to a black person but the court basically agrees that like apartment. Buildings are so terrible that you absolutely do have a rational basis for saying you have to exclude them and at some point in the decision they like call multifamily housing like parasite. It's like very weird in some ways but this is just ten years later nine ten years later they step away from the kind of hard edged pro property rights view but they opened up the door to a lot of pretextual regulation. And one thing that's important to to understand what happens. After buchanan is that the desire for segregation does not go away because these governments are not able to have explicit racial zoning laws some places like in atlanta for instance they used to have like a white residential district call residential district explicitly in zoning code and then it is three name. Those are one in our two and keep going like nothing really changes but orange. Fortunately a lotta. This starts moving towards private actors. I think he's actually a really important development. If it had stayed. I think we'd be living in a very different world. Because alison shirts are is someone who works a lot on these issues and she's an economist at pitt and one of the things that she talks about is just that private actors break under certain level of profit incentive right so if you have a black person offering you fifty thousand dollars over asking price to break the racial covenant your neighborhood you probably gonna take that deal because it's not like the state is gonna block you. It requires one of your neighbors. Actually sue you and then win that suit. And then you know go to all the trouble with that entails and you don't have to as the white property owner deal with any of the racist violence. That black family might face if they moved into that neighborhood. So the cost. You actually not really that high often and what. We see happening when it moves into the private spaces. There's obviously still a ton of racial discrimination from realtors from landlords from white property owners. Who don't want to quote ruin their neighborhood by allowing the kinds of people in and they feel bad about doing that to their fellow white neighbors but at a certain level you do see the color line beginning to shift as black people are able to move in and what shirts are finds. Is that the end up paying. Like an extremely high premium to buy these houses and they're moving into Racially segregated areas. But i think what's interesting about. What happens with euclid is that it reinforces away and creates tools for it to return to government control. Which makes it a lot harder to break segregation later on when it's the government doing it versus when you have private actors who at some level be subject to some desire to make a bunch of money as they can. Ray i definitely think it's worth highlighting jerusalem your first point about lake. It never goes away. It's not like buchanan drops and governments all across the south are like well damn guess we can't segregate neighborhoods anymore. We'll just have to like sue and try to get this reversed in twiddle our thumbs. In the meantime the other thing that happens is that because they have to invent these other ways of doing it it becomes a little more integrated in the planning process along a trajectory. That is like pretty familiar to people. Who are broadly familiar with. Like the difference between defacto industry segregation and the essence of northern hypocrisy in the mid twentieth century that a lot of professionalized urban planner types start becoming the mechanisms via witch cities can create a process that is going to result in residential segregation. But that doesn't run them. Afoul of the supreme court's law and so this is one of those where even though when we talk about jim crow. We are talking about this other institution. There's no way of getting around the fact that the progressive movement was kind of from the beginning and mashed in this project of preserving higher quality neighborhoods by keeping black people out. So let's take a break. And i want to talk about that kind of evolution. You've heard our solar energy and wind energy and geothermal power but if you heard a biomass here's how it works. Trees cut down and chipped into pellets. Those pallets shipped to europe. The burn there to produce electricity. It's a process. it's expanding globally. Thanks to government. Subsidies in green watched buzz that makes it seem environmentally friendly but producing biomass affects the environment biodiversity and the communities surrounding the forest that are being harvested the initial promises to sequester carbon by growing trees. But just how effective that practice might be remains to be seen. After years of forest regrowth. The national resources defense council says forests. Aren't fuel learn more at us dot forests not fuel dot org sponsored by better help online therapy as we move toward the finish line of the pandemic. Let's not forget to give ourselves space to process everything that's gone down. Many of us are still feeling off kilter and emotionally out of sorts so we might not changes in relationships. This sounds like you may be time to talk to somebody and online therapy can help but help is not a crisis line in no. It's not self help is professional therapy and securely an online all you need to do is squad questionnaire so that help can assess your needs and matt's you with your professional licensed therapist then you can start communicating with therapist and under forty eight hours in a way that works for you over the phone live chat or can stomach one more videocon your day. That's an option to easily accessible quality. Help there for you when you need it better. Help us committed to making sure you get the care. That's right for you. So changing therapist is easy and free. Give yourself what you need and get better help today. Get ten percent off your first month and better help dot com slash weeds. It's better h. E. l. p. dot com slash tweets. So one thing. That's interesting to me about all of this. Is that the village of euclid decision. On which is obviously not like zoning is not the only tool that's used to maintain defacto segregation and you know for a lot of historic sort of treats this decision Giving the go-ahead to single family zoning as part of a broader tradition of the supreme court turning away from hard edged property rights jurisprudence and stepping into the sunshine of what would become the new deal. Era ray but when you look at the ground level history of what happens after they give the thumbs up to zoning. There's a great article called the racial origins of americans zoning by silver and he talks about things like charleston south carolina they want in the twenties to sort of shore up segregation in the city. And so they hire a planning consultant. Morris knowles pittsburgh To help them drop as zoning ordinance as all city planners zoning first comes in they have a variety of different objectives like maintaining segregation is not the only thing that they are trying to do in charleston but it is of the things they are trying to do when the same is true in atlanta birmingham hires a city planner from boston So northern sort of progressive technocrats go south to consult with southern city is on how to create legally defensible segregation regimes and then as great migration dynamic start happening. The knowledge is reimported into northern cities. And new york's originals. Zoning code was mostly driven by store owners were trying to maintain but fifth avenue is like a nice place for shopping. It was a economics based discrimination element. But you know these same things start coming into play. Els sherzer who Jerusalem mentioned has a study of the evolution of zoning in chicago. You know when she shows that the move undesirable uses adjacent to the areas where black families are living and they also tried to bake it difficult. for black families to move into the white areas. And you have this. Overlapping wedge things. People fear irregular violence from their neighbors. They have challenges with discrimination for real estate. Operators there are covenants but this is all backstopped. By the sort of basic reality withers his booming population migrating north and there's money to be made throng apartment buildings to rent to the people who were moving to chicago. There are big parts of the city where you can't build an apartment building not exclusively because you're trying to keep by people out but certainly in part for that reason because of all this technical expertise that's developed in the nineteen twenties of how to do this in ways that will hold up in court. I think was really interesting about the you. Click as to so they find essentially that the city is allowed to tell this realty company that it cannot build the types of things at wants to build and often. I think people talk about zoning as something that is preserving land values making sure that you're like doing something that is going to increase profits for the property owner but actually ends up happening right. Is that at least a realty company. Alleges that with their original use case the land value is at ten thousand dollars an acre but if you force them to use it for residential purposes in the way that the city wants It goes down to twenty five hundred dollars in acre. And i think this is something that i think is like not intuitive to people the value of the land changes substantially. When you tell people that you can't zone specific things on it so like if you're on like waterfront property and you tell people you can only have one home for every you know three acres. You can make a lot less money doing that than if you have even a bunch of home next to each other who are single family homes and you could rent it to a bunch of different people and it's not just about the profits differ the developer that matters but it's also just general increase in welfare. There's a lot more people can enjoy that waterfront and can enjoy. What's going on there. And so i think they're like understanding zoning as being a tool with which people are actively regulating the value of the land itself is really important when we're talking about zoning issues today where people are often concerned that oh if you up zone if you take the current zoning regime and there's the potential to make things denser it's obviously going to reduce property prices. There's a bunch of research that's now showing that in many contexts. If you actually up zone you increase the ability for people to make money off their land because you are saying there's a higher value case that could exist in that space and then of course matt mentioned about discrimination against apartment buildings in particular. I think what's really interesting. Here is something that i think is still a strain of thought right. Now is this inability to distinguish between crowding and density. So there's a bunch of problems that are actually happening a lot of these cities where like you have. Overcrowded areas predominantly populated by southern black to have moved into these places and also first generation immigrants. And because there's a problem of poverty people are crowding in together in order to afford to live in these cities or in these places that they wanna live near jobs or whatever and of course there becomes a lot of problems to overcrowding and with the city failing to provide basic things like sanitation or other public services and what gets linked people's minds. Your thing is really important. Here is that it becomes link not true poverty or to the fact that you're not providing Necessary public works but that it is density in particular that is a nuisance and that is a problem and then he should be separated. And it's taken. As fact throughout his opinion euclid. That apartments are a nuisance a density as a problem that of course no one could ever disagree with the idea that living multifamily housing is just horrible den of iniquity. I can just worth quoting like exact rhetoric that they use. In the case they say with particular reference to apartment houses. It's pointed out that the development of detached house sections is greatly retarded by the coming of apartment houses which is sometimes resulted in destroying the entire section for private house purposes than sections very often the apartment houses emir parasite constructed nor detail advantage of the open spaces and attractive surroundings created by the residential character of the district. So they really have in this interesting way. We've moved out of the racial zoning case into this kind of pure discrimination and the base of the building form. But it's this like incredible like visceral disdain for people who might live in apartment buildings which i guess if you want to generously construe that as lacking any kind of racial or ethnic sub taxed like that's fine but like it only makes weirder honestly that it's like parasites are coming into your neighborhood because they live in like a three story building with six units or something. It's weird but i mean at time. When there was enough commitment property rights that they were like despite the incredible levels of racism that were present in american side quite overtly at that time they were like no. You can't just have a rule that says no black people can move into the block but then nine years later they're like holy shit apartment buildings like we got to put a stop to that right like these awful parasites that's now like baked deep into the cake of american land. Use right that like in the way. There's a kind of presumption that like. I can't just have like toxic gas spewing everywhere. It's like an apartment building. That's like pretty special kind of ask here and cities need to defend themselves against them. Yeah i think that there are a few ways in which like it's worth kind of pulling back the curtain a little bit and showing how this is never all that far from explicit racism and from perpetuating what jerusalem is talk about in the first segment of like the atlanta system of just renaming things and hoping that everything will all right. The first is that you can draw direct line from this kind of fear of density in its own right and assuming that density is the problem rather than crowding to urban renewal in the mid twentieth century right where. There's the same kind of assumption that if you just get rid of the bad housing that people will move and it doesn't create any need for the government to place those people in better situations or even to like provide opportunities for them to be in better situations their obligation ends when they've gotten rid of the kind of festering denv iniquity which of course implies that it's people's own fault for wanting to live in such a bad place to begin with and perpetuates culture of poverty stuff. The other thing that i think is really important. Is that while we talk about the relationship between zoning preservation of property values in a lot of cases. This isn't a regime based on who can own the property. It's a regime based on who can live on the property and you can. Actually you know counter. Factually imagine a world in which the zoning happens in ways that prevent white homeowners from renting two black renters and therefore ends up meaning that black city residents are more likely to own homes. But that's not what happens. What you instead have is a world where the wealth is still accruing to the white people who've moved out and who have subsequently rented their homes to the black people moving in which kind of gives the lie to the there goes the neighborhood anti anti-racist rhetoric of the mid twentieth century that it's not that people are themselves unwilling to live near black people. It's just that they don't want to reduce the property value of their own homes because other homebuyers are going to be racist and it also ends up becoming pretty big wedge between black and white homeownership rates. Which of course ends up becoming a thing at the end of the twentieth beginning of the twenty first century when that's one of the arguments that subprime mortgage lenders are using to justify cooking black families into terrible mortgage deals. I think one thing. That's really important to point out. Because i think it's not how people often think about or learn history is just that euclid zoning in particular is actually extremely impactful. The shirts are as somebody mentioned. She has a paper that mentioned about chicago. And before you could happens and before you have this kind of citywide zoning laws you have a lot of mixed use going on you. Have people living in residential districts with it's also industrial uses and there's also commercial uses. People are living these types of neighbors that are pretty common and other places in the world and there are clear harms here that the progressives do articulate right like in is not great to have some kind of like environmental pollutant next to a place where children growing up at a young age. And i think what's really important about that is that and i think it's probably like a lesson that we love people could take today as well as that when you're designing policies about things that you think are legitimate problems. You also have to think about how that policy tool is going to be used by people who are bad people or how they're gonna use by people you think are not actively on your side. And while a lot of these progresses like matt mentioned are directly working to be a part of the project of segregation a lot of people also were just specifically using zoning at least as they. I imagined it to separate these types of uses. And we're not. I think fully thinking through the implications of what would occur when you created this tool that could be used and i think what's also important here is that before all these zoning laws and we see a sharp increase in segregation in the early twentieth century before that in many cities you had blocked people living in almost every single neighborhood. There's like measures that like in baltimore and every neighborhood black americans this is pretty great migration and that a lot of what occurs as the great migration happens as zoning laws get implemented especially on this city wide level is that you see segregation actually being put into place by these kinds of policies. I think a lot of times people think about american history. I assume segregation was happening. The entire time both segregation of like residential versus commercial and industrial and also in terms of race. But that's actually not true and not what was going on for a lot of our history. Trayvon logan john parman have a study looking. At old census records. They can turn a very detail. Level level that the amount of segregation roughly doubles between nineteen hundred. Nine hundred forty you know relatively late in the game and they also showed that it happens. In the north and the south in rural areas and in urban ones there's a kind of historical urban legend that segregation was the outcome of that sort of there had been integrated patterns in the countryside moved into the cities and there was a kind of segregation of the dwellings. But that's apparently not true. When you look at the kind of block level. I think to what jerusalem was saying though i think the point is that the originators of the pro zoning jurists Their idea was it was important to allow localities to use zoning to protect people from harm's and so then people have different ideas about what harms our and it is true. That one harm is smoke from a factory but like the idea of the harm is left up to the discretion of these planning commissions and people had a very good faith like not true but like genuinely felt view that living near people of a different race and especially living near people who live in an apartment buildings was harm to them and we see that legacy carried forward. Today i was on a plane with a guy like a real texas business guy with a cowboy hat and everything and he asked me what i'm doing and i said it was going to talk on land use policy and skeptical of regulation. He said son. You know you gotta come to houston update. I can put a nickel smelting plant right across the street from a school and no one can stop me and that's not really true but what is true. Is that houston has unusually lax land-use regime for the states but houston nonetheless has a very extensive mandatory parking requirements right. Because the view. Is that. If i build a building and it doesn't include off street parking that's gonna mean other people might park on the street. Were you already live. So you are being harmed by my apartment building in much. The way that you might be harmed by nickel-smelting plant or another environmental toxin and that's not. I don't know if you've ever parked car industry it's like it's not false that there is a certain harm to you of other also trying to park on the street but if you're thinking about environmental policy like macro way right like regulating extra. Parking is not a pro environmental policy right like apartment. Buildings more energy efficient the less parking. You have the better it is. You have more people walking using transit. Bicycling you don't need to use like coercion to force people out of their cars. You can just let things sort of fall where they may but the paradigm that's enshrined by euclid is that you can zone out. Harms and that the locality gets to decide based on fairly picayune considerations. Like what the nature of the harm is right rather than a more centralized definition of like what the harms are so like. I don't want these kids going to my kid's school. That is a harm that people in effect zone against. I don't want it to be harder to get parking. Space is a harm but from a social standpoint gets not bad for people to attend integrated schools. It's not bad for people to ride the bus things like that. And so we get this kind of conflict. We should take another break though. Support for this episode comes from quick up if it feels like. there aren't enough hours in your workday. it's probably because there aren't. We're losing valuable time to productivity pitfalls like switching between apps to track down deliverables finding dates and communicating with our teams. Get your hours back. And your work on track with click up. 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Today this is all worth bringing up because we have some reforms in this regard coming in big cities and sort of push back against single family zoning and that is very there's a classic libertarian critique of zoning and worked on by ed glaser other bright of center people on this subject is the red states. Tend to have laxer land-use regimes but i mean jerusalem. I know you've covered a lot. That sort of bristol justice considerations. I think have motivated a lot of people in blue states and blue cities to rethink some of this and i do think historically least like that is correct. That's like the right way to look at the origin of these systems and potentially a good reason to look at revising them or pulling down. I think just pulling on the thread that you ended with last segments idea like what happens with nuisances and what happens with nuisance law in general and i think that the existence of this kind of case law leads to like absolutely absurd behavior of the story while back about how essentially there's the city maplewood missouri where they essentially said that you have to have like an occupancy permit in order to live in that place and if you don't you're not allowed to rent or own anything within the city limits and then they had another ordinance which basically was like this nuisance ordinance which basically qualified calling nine one one if you are a woman who is experiencing domestic violence also is a nuisance and so you would have people who were experiencing domestic violence calling the police and you would get your occupancy permit revoked and you would essentially be kicked out of town. You're not allowed to live not place legally and there's a lot of this being documented that desmond looks at this in wisconsin and you know he has an absolute absurd story. He finds where basically the conversation with nuisance is between the property owner and the city and the state. So what ends up happening. Is that the police. Contact the landlord and say hey. Your tenant keeps calling the cops because she has an abusive partner you to figure out a way to make the stop or you'll have to victor and the landlord replies in email to the city official. Yeah i advised her to get a and shoot him. she hasn't so i'm going to victor. And so when you have these types of nuisance laws is idea that like nuisances or anything. That could bother. Essentially upper middle class white homeowners that includes anything from i hear someone else is experiencing abuse to as matt points out parking lots and i think that a lot of these things are unintended consequences of a legal regime that prioritizes the slight irritations of wealthy and connected homeowners over general social welfare. And as as i mentioned. You're seeing a lot of this. Change be pushed by this hope for racial justice. it's happened in minneapolis. You're seeing in california. You're seeing this. in connecticut. And other states across the country you even see the council economic advisers at the white house and the department of housing urban development couch a lot of this language in racial justice language. And it's very clearly correct when you look at the historiographer that this is a massive racial dust issue but because it's become so encoded in how we view property rights. It's now a class issue. It's now agenda rights issue when you're looking at what's happening to victims investing violence. It has spiraled the point where there are so many ways to criminalize behavior to the point. Where the state has potentially reasonable justification for zoning out that nuisance. Yeah i mean. I it critique. The idea of unintended consequences a little bit. Because it's something that. I was thinking a lot about in prepping for this episode. Because like if you look at the macro history of decades before the civil rights act the supreme court said you can't do explicit racial segregation. But you can do facially neutral things that achieve the same ends and a bunch of jurisdiction said great will do just that like it casts. What happens after the passage of the civil rights. Act in a different light right because it means that we're not discovering for the first time that facially neutral laws as a successor to explicitly. Racist laws can perpetuate the exact same inequities like that is something that could have been visible at that point and so i think the further we go on the time machine the harder it is to not play hindsight game. I struggled with that with this episode. Just like i struggled with it with the last episode but it is at a certain point worth pointing out that like the facts on the ground. Were there at the time. And so what got strategically ignored. And what assumptions were being made on the part of the law's proponents that the tools they recruiting would be used in. Good faith or worth interrogating the other thing. That i think is important is like yeah okay. This specific consequences of any given nuisance. Ordinance might not be foreseeable at the time because you haven't created ordinance yet but it's generally true that who gets to decide is an implicit question of all public policy. Like you were saying you know earlier jerusalem that it kind of is incumbent on policymakers to think about what would this tool look like when wielded by people whose idea of the good or idea of what is in nuisance or whatever doesn't jibe with nine the problem is that especially at the local level. It's really hard to abstract the policy process to that degree because so often things happen because of a very committed group of citizens who are absolutely convinced that a problem is the most important problem. D their proposed solution will solve it that too abstract. Not just to the level of like how can we adjudicate between various stakeholders which is often the process by which policy gets made but also. How can we future-proof this so that it doesn't create massively skating. Unintended consequences for people whose definition of the good is different from ours. Like there is a certain extent to which that's a difficult thing to do but it also is a reasonable standard to hold policymakers to well and on the subject of unintended consequences. A few months ago. I was organic piece and i was ready to mention offhandedly that the post world war two crackdown on rooming houses in which widows are empty nesters would like rent out spare rooms in their place. I was gonna say that. This had these dire unintended consequences in increasing homelessness but the american citing planning officials has done this really nice thing that they should probably actually undo. Which is they post like. They're all documents up on their website and they're invariably horrifying and they have this nine hundred fifty seven report on like why said you should crack down on rooming houses. I think intellectuals like unintended consequences stories. And so i had this idea that it was like well. These were supposed to make living conditions better for the people living in rooming houses but it had the unintended consequence of pushing people onto the streets abbott. They actually just say look many rumors real down in out and the atmosphere of a rooming house in which they predominate is likely to be bleak and that hundreds of zoning ordinances have loopholes that permit group living arrangements and so they were just like encouraging cities to get rid of these down in adar's because they were just like bad people and you should get rid of them and if you don't have them living in your town your town's going to be better off and this even sense in which that's true right to darris point about who decides for some definition of down and auvers if you have some down and outer is living in your town that creates a challenge for your social service provision versus. If you have a rule that says that like only rich people can live in your town that makes life a lot easier for like your teachers and your school principals. The cops have less to do like genuinely can solve a localized problem by criminalising poverty. The promise that america can't solve poverty by having the country. Say oh no you're not allowed to be down and out here right. The down and outer is go someplace else. They go to what we now have is like tent encampments in parks in a lot of americans cities. And that's much worse right. Like the intended consequence of empowering localities to sort of push out undesirable people is to create a much more intense form of the problem where people are on the streets rather than in rooming houses are more concentrated version. where they're in a handful jurisdictions rather than spread around. And we're also just like it's so much harder you know so you're down and out right but like you want to get back on your feet and do well if you're living in a rooming house. It's like okay. It's crowded like you would like to live someplace else. But you still have an address you can wash. You can go get a job which is very challenging. If you're homeless to like move into a better set of circumstances you can't accumulate any possessions. It's really bad. And it comes from empowering at the wrong groups of people to make decisions neck as bad people right but because they have a parochial perspective like the town planning department is not interested in the nationwide impacts of these iterative policy decisions. But it's not a good system that we've created to sort of say that we have such weak property rights over housing and that determinations about who can live where and what they can build should be made on the basis of these very localized considerations. But never sure about knowing the history knowing that reality is like. How much should we emphasize the racial dimension of this versus class. Because i mean one thing. People say is like look. Nobody's saying that like cliff huxtable can move into your neighborhood with like his wealthy family and it's like it happens to be the case that not that many black people are that wealthy but you know so much the better versus lake. I dunno it seems bad. It certainly has a disparate impact. It is facially. Raise neutral by law for over a hundred years and i keep flipping back and forth unlike. What what good does it do to excavate this history. I think there are a couple of things here so one is question of what is the role of persuasion in a policy. Context like this where. The policy is super salient to a small group of people and like super unknown to like the vast majority of americans at like actually like matters. And you have context like in california. It's becoming a lot more salient as it becomes a much bigger problem. Because property prices at wrench it's been rising to a point where even rich people are having trouble affording basic things so that feels to me that that changes things but i think i'll also just say here that what matters less is persuasion and countries like this and more. What matters is changing where the levers of power exists. Because even if you have a situation right where like every individual person at the local level was equally empowered to have their say in zoning sessions a there are more homeowners and there are renters in the country and sixty three percent or people are homeowners. I like forty seven percent or renters. Be i think people have internalized This nuisance stuff without realizing the biggest impact of zoning laws which is decreasing housing supply. And it's a complicated economic story and it's like normal people who don't care. I'm like shouldn't have to care about this stuff and shouldn't have to know all this kind of stuff to have like housing provided to them. And so i think what's more important here is that you actually ensure that the structural disadvantage when you create a system where it's whether or not you show up to a zoning meeting and talk about these issues is how you get your preferences met is what's going to happen here because as matt said like yeah. You're solving a localized problem. By getting rid of this nuisance. But you can't do that across america and what's happened. Is that all the power to make sure that we're actually solving homelessness and not just like getting rid of homeless people in one part of los angeles is at the los angeles level but the people that it harms our at the california level and at the united states of america level But there's very few things right. Now that policymakers find feasible to actually do at the state level level or the us level. So i think there's a lot of interesting questions about like what role persuasion place here. And i think you know. We've seen in minneapolis and in the suburbs. Here that racial justice arguments have led to changes in the zoning code but you know even after minneapolis has banned singled. Zoning we haven't seen a bunch of triplex x's rise because they're a bunch of other ordinances. That are making it harder to build these types of things so i think when you have kind of one off persuasion campaigns. It can be really good at centering. harmless happened and of course on top of that also making a policy change that affects people's lives but at the end of the day. You can't have this like one by one okay. Well let's get rid of this building code. Let's make sure that setbacks aren't absurd and that height limits aren't crazy and like removing that one by one is going to be a laborious process versus making sure that states or regions have the power to just say like okay. I don't care how you do it. You are responsible for x number of housing units being produced in your area over y number of years and i think that's really the only fix here and persuasions cannot play a huge role at the individual level but it might play some role at the official level. I think that's well said happy to leave it at that. So thank you so much jerusalem for joining us. Thanks to everybody out there in the listening world for joining us on this time machine adventure. I hope that we will have some future opportunities to use this. Now that we have developed time traveling technology. It seems like a shame. Never use it again. Thanks as always to our sponsors to our producer genius and which will be back on. Friday support for this episode comes from forward. Most people go to the doctor for the one offs like rashes and colds. And your annual flu shot but doctors can do more. That's why you need forward. Their doctors go beyond everyday care in an effort to catch top killers like cancer and heart disease early. They use advanced technology to help you reduce risks and achieve long-term results so invest in a doctor. That's invested in you and your long term health at go forward dot com. That's go forward dot com.
George Wallace's "Segregation Forever" Speech / "The Bell Jar" published - January 14
"Fifteen minutes could save you. Fifteen percent or more. is that shakespeare. No it's geico i. Yeah that's shakespeare from one of his published works to be not for awakening and may give it though the batteries for fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. No it's from geico. 'cause they help save people money i hate to break it to you but geico got it from shakespeare gyco fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. I'm alec baldwin. Listen to my podcast. Here's the thing on iheartradio. It's my chance to talk with artists policy makers and performers. I like being an actress. But i love being kristen. So i've prioritize that a little bit more than my like desire to spread my wings or prove to people that i can be some dramatic actress listening as much as i liked talking with interesting people. Go to here's the thing dot. Org and subscribe now on the iheart app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey y'all were rerunning two episodes today which means you might hear to hosts. Enjoy the show. Welcome to this day in history class. From how stuff works dot com and from the desk of stuff. You missed in history class. It's the show where we explore the past one day at a time with a quick look at what happened today in history. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm tracy v wilson and it's january. Fourteenth george wallace was inaugurated as governor of alabama. On a stay in nineteen sixty. Three and at his inauguration he gave his famous segregation now segregation forever speech ten years before that and nineteen fifty-three wallace had been part of the reelection campaign of governor big jim folsom and folsom was really pretty progressive. He'd been campaigning for things. Like voting rights for blacks citizens and ending the use of prison labour improving. The school system. Hiring more women for government positions and wallace had a reputation as a dangerous liberal back in one thousand nine hundred. Forty eight both. He and fulsome had been delegates to the democratic national convention and when pro segregation democrats had walked out of the convention folsom and wallace had been some of the ones staying put in nineteen. Fifty eight wallace ran for governor of alabama for the first time in his platform had a lot in common from when he had worked on the campaign of big jim folsom it was moderate to progressive. It still followed a lot of what fulsome had campaigned on. And he had the support of the national association for the advancement of colored people or nwpp. Meanwhile his opponent in the democratic primary was attorney. General john patterson patterson was running on a pro segregation platform and had the support of the ku klux klan in this democratic primary in nineteen fifty eight patterson beat wallace and then beat his republican opponent. William longshore in just a landslide. The next part of this has been widely reported in some wording or another from a lot of different sources but wallace himself denied ever saying it when people asked him what had gone wrong in his campaign has spots reportedly included a racist slur. Something along the lines of quote. I got out n. Worded by john patterson. This is the first and last time. I will be out n. Worded by another candidate wallace's life in his political career. Took a turn after this. He became very deeply depressed and this combined with other than his marriage to lead his wife ler lean to take their children to live with their parents and file for divorce. At the time. Wallace was a judge for the third judicial court and with the election over. He went back to work in totally changed his approach to racial discrimination. You started actively trying to block civil rights legislation instead of supporting it like he had before when he ran for governor again he was pro segregation and pro state's rights and he had the support of the ku klux klan. Like the man who had beaten him the last time around this time he won the democratic primary and got three hundred thousand votes in the general election even though no one else was running against him. The speech that he gave on inauguration day nineteen sixty three was co written by acer. Earl carter. He was the member of the ku klux klan. Later on carter was also revealed to be forrest. Carter author of the rebel outlawed josey wales and the education of little tree. Here's that famous passage from the speech quote today. I have stood where once. Jefferson davis stood and took an oath to my people. It is very appropriate then that from this cradle of the confederacy this very heart of the great anglo-saxon southland that today we sound the drum for freedom as have our generations of forebears before us done time and time again throughout history. Let us rise to the call of freedom loving blood that is in us and send our answer to the tyranny that clank sits chains upon the south in the name of the greatest people that have ever tried this earth. I draw the line and the dust and tossed the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny and i say segregation today segregation tomorrow segregation forever. It is not clear whether wallace's shift from being socially progressive to explicitly supporting segregation and white supremacy was a genuinely held changed his views or whether he just thought it was politically expedient to win an election but he shifted once again in the opposite direction later on in his career after the passage of the voting rights act and this is just one moment in a decades long career that also involved other instances of outright racism. There's a lot more to it. In the november thirtieth two thousand sixteen episode of steffi missed in history class thanks to casey perriman chandler maze for their audio work on this show. You can subscribe to the stay in history class on apple podcasts. Google podcasts the iheartradio app and wherever else you get your podcasts and tune in tomorrow for a flood that we told you was coming back in october good afternoon. Would you like to try a free. Sample of our double fudge brownie. Oh sure mesh very good. I'll just take one more just to be sure yup still very good. Some things never change like never being able to take just one free sample and geico. Saving folks lots of money on their car insurance macadamia nut. I taste take one more sir. I thought so fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more and what people think about the healthcare workers. You know we can say. I'll take the risk all get on a plane and go see my family for thanksgiving because that's important to me. I'll take the risk if i get sick. It'll be fine. The problem with that is that you don't have a choice if you're going to get sick or not and maybe you won't get sick but you don't have a choice as to who you'll in fact and we don't have a choice if they will die or their live. That's fianna tulip a grieving daughter. Who lost her mother to covid nineteen. Fianna wants to make sure her mother. A latina frontline worker from texas is more than just a number scrolling on the news feed. We've got to think about the people who are working and risking their lives to save our lives and we have to remember that. We don't have a choice into how this virus ax. We can't choose whether infects us infect someone else and we can't shoes if we stay alive or die. I'm justin back founder and ceo of contact world. Listen to contact world the podcast on the iheartradio app. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Quick warning before we start the show. Today's episode contains mention of suicide. Hey y'all i'm yvonne and you're listening to this day in history class podcast for people interested in the big and small moments in history. The day was january. Fourteenth nineteen sixty three. The bell jar only novel written by poets. Sylvia plath was first published under the pseudonym victoria lucas. Plath was born in nineteen thirty two in boston. Her father died when she was a child in many of her poems reflect her feelings about her father and his death by the time she was a teenager. She was publishing stories and poems in magazines. While attending smith college plath one a fiction contest and got a guest editorship at the magazine. Mademoiselle at the same time. She was dealing with depression after she attempted suicide at age. Twenty she was hospitalized and treated with electroshock therapy. Plath went back to smith. After being hospitalized and graduated she then studied at cambridge university. On a fulbright. I there she met ted hughes whom she married in one thousand nine hundred eighty six and later had two children with plath went on to teach english at smith college and published a collection of poems called the colossus though. She was praised for the craft and imagery of her poetry. She was also criticized for lacking personal voice. Lehner though her poetry became less by end up and more candid her other major work. The bell jar was first published in london on january. Fourteenth nineteen sixty three plath had a hard time finding an american publisher for it and it was british publisher william who ended up accepting it. She used a pseudonym victoria lucas. To keep from outing the people she fictionalized and to separate it from her other literary works. Plath wanted to write something like the snake pit a semi autobiographical book by author mary mary. Jane ward about a woman's recovery from mental illness. The bell jar is also a semi autobiographical novel as it's based on her experiences of hospitalization and recovery. It's about a woman named esther greenwood who longs to become a poet as he struggles with. Societal expectations placed on women as well as her writing career. Esther becomes depressed. The story follows esther as she goes through treatment and into recovery. The book received some lukewarm in some positive reviews. Today it's recognized. As a book that touches on themes of redemption identity gender and the oppressions of contemporary american society had a huge burst of creative energy and wrote prolifically at the end of her life but less than a month after the bell jar was published. Plath diet by suicide she had been sick and left to take care of her children after she and her husband separated and she was still struggling with mental illness. Some of her work was published posthumously including the poetry collections ariel winter trees and crossing the water. I'm chef and hopefully you know a little more about history today than you did yesterday. If you're hungry for more history on twitter facebook and instagram at t i h c podcast and you can send your thoughts are comments to us at this day at iheartmedia dot com. Thanks for listening. We'll see you here again tomorrow with another episode ever wonder what kind of job you have if you were born in a different time. You're in luck because jobs. Lead is a new podcast. That just may have an answer for you. I'm helen hong and i'm at beat. Take a spin through. Workplaces of the past as we scout history's most interesting jobs in every episode from the forgotten jobs of history to obscure occupations. That still survive will talk with an expert to answer the burning questions and you'll discover some of the most fascinating in unusual ways. People have made a living through the centuries and who knows. Maybe you'll find a job. You love is a town crier or switchboard operator. A food taster. Or an mtv vj. You can listen to jobs. Elite on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts Hey guys it's bobby bones host the bobby bones show and i'm pretty much always sleepy because i wake up at three o'clock in the morning a couple of hours later i get all my friends together. We get into a room and we do a radio. Show with your allies. We tell our stories. We try to find as much good in the world if he possibly can and we look through the news of the day that you'll care about also your favorite country. Artists are always stopping by the hang out and share their lives and music to wake up with a bunch of my friends on ninety eight point. Seven w. mcu in washington dc or wherever the rotates you on the iheartradio app.
Facebook ad boycott organizers on today's meeting with Zuckerberg
"Hi I'm Denver Matt and welcome to a special evening edition of axios recap earlier today, facebook CEO mark, Zuckerberg and other top company executives sat down with leaders of what has become the most widespread at boycott in facebook history. Huge brands like target and Coca Cola and Ford. Motor Company are participating by pulling their paid messaging from facebook and instagram for the entire month of July in an effort to force facebook to better police and remove what they refer to as hate speech the tonight to speak with four of the boycott organizers who were on today's call with facebook to learn what happened the reaction to it, and what comes next joining me are Rashad. Robinson of color of change Derek Johnson of the N. Double ACP Jonathan Greenburg of the anti-defamation League and Jessica Gonzales a free press. We're joined now by four organizers who are on the call today Rashad Robinson of color for change Derek Johnson of the nwpp Jonathan, Greenburg out of the anti-defamation League and Jessica. Gonzales of free press, start here with just to each of you explain how your organization and even you personally kind of reached the point that led to this boycott and Rashad. I guess I'll start with you. What was kind of the tipping point that went from conversations to boycott? It's been ongoing color change. We've been engaged of pushing facebook for the last five years for a number of years we have planned and thought about boycotts and pulled back. It was revealed that they had attacked spy. Firm, but recently June first color of change along with our friends at the leadership conference on Civil Rights in the N. W. C. P. Legal Defense Fund met with Mark ensurer. Along with some of their staff, and at the end of that meeting, as we were trying to go back, and forth with mark around Donald Trump's voter suppression post around the sort of looters. Host why they sorta weren't pulled down. I said to the folks on the screen. What are we doing here, guys? Why are we keep having these conversations and in my head? At that point I was letting the staff know on my team that we should start thinking about a boycott what we were. Surprised about is that other folks were also kind of thinking about and having those conversations, and so having conversations with Jonathan having conversations with Derek, having conversations with folks as sleeping giants and others. We got into this because we all had gotten to a point where we had tried everything, and we were not getting sort of the type of changes, results or activation from facing so Jonathan when you have the conversation with Reshad, does it make sense to you and kind of? Of How do you go from being frustrated to? Let's talk the company and ask them to come off the platforms with the oldest I hate group in the world. We've been working silicon valley for years. We've been actively involved with facebook literally on almost a daily basis dealing with extremists, eight content where my analysts and experts have helped them to identify what's problematic and what crosses the line, and we've been increasingly frustrated at the failure for them to demonstrate the kind of. That we think these issues demand, and so for us again it's been building and building, and I'll confess. We get donations from facebook employees. We have relationship with these people and yet you can't ignore the obvious, and so as after the death of George Floyd. When we saw white nationalists literally organizing in broad daylight on the platform how they would subvert the black lives matter protests how they would undermine them how they would initiate violence on the streets and we. We reached out. We said this is enough and it didn't get taken down immediately. And we said this is enough and I reached out to Derek, and I reached out to Rashad. We brought in free press, and that kicked it off so Derek from P. When you get that call, you think. Yup, this makes sense or you need convincing. No, it makes sense. We have been engaged with trying to address issues on facebook platform as well in fact in. Eighteen January. We had a log on facebook protests when all of the news came out that the platform was being used by Russia influencing election, and they had done nothing to address it. In fact, they had that prior November in December. Before Congress and the New York Times article in Washington Post article that came out. Really show that they were very slow in addressing issues that they should have no or knew about that became really problematic, and it even more problematic when we realize what articles they had a private investigative firm to Research Rashad in change. That's dangerous and Jessica for you. Your organization kind of advocates for media reform kind of media democratization. Where do you come in on this? When they called you? Was this an? An, obvious thing or did you need convince him Oh totally obvious. In fact, we were planning our own boycott and we're very happy to hear that others were as well made sense to join up and to unite behind our shared interests here we've been working for many years now. With the change, the terms coalition that is calling on big tech platforms to adopt a comprehensive set of content moderation policies to ensure that users and folks off the platform are safe, so this made perfect sense. Sense and you know free press I think is often seen as like some sort of free speech purist group, but we understand that the press isn't free until it frees people that free speech isn't free, if it doesn't take into account, historical ways that power and oppression have silence, people of Color have silenced folks that are not in the majority. So this perfectly aligns with our mission, and we're glad to be a part of the effort so several hours ago. You all get on, zoom call. Call am I right. Is that how you guys did this since? We can't actually meet in real rooms anymore. Okay, so you get on Zoom Call Jonathan for you. What were your expectations? Going into the meeting? There were very forward, so we put out an agenda on June the sixteenth at stopping profit dot org instead of ten recommendations about things they could do that were all simple Dan straightforward and frankly very achievable when you say that. Did you think that you were going to sit? Sit Down and mark and Cheryl and Chris Cox. We're going to look and say here's the list. We're going to do these ten or nine of them just to be clear Dan, so they emailed us and asked for the meeting. Our communication banks we have an agenda in that list are thought was go to the meeting today to walk the agenda and to get from them commitments and timeframes, and look I used to be a product manager. I've run software engineering teams. That's how it works. Works and you have a product roadmap that includes milestones and timeframes. That's how you do it. The expectation today was will go through. The list will understand what their milestones are. What's the timeframe to achieve it? And instead we got no milestones. We got no timeframes. We got no details. We really got nothing and it was far short of all expectations Derek. How long were you guys on the call? And how long into it did you think at least in your mind? This is not. Not going to be as productive as I was hoping it was going to be a call lasts about an hour probably within the first two minutes when they began to minutes ten minutes. I'm sorry Tim and say, but it'd be given shift to say. We want to hear from you about some of your demands would think you're like. Wait a minute. You have those we should be hearing from you. You call the meeting. We provided you with the things we would like to see and it. It was his dance and is dance around well. WHO's GonNa take lead were clear. We need you to answer these questions. What are you GonNa do now is great. You have in dialogue. We WanNA. See some action. Where are the outcomes? Rishaad comment in a media call after the Zuma call with facebook people that you felt that this was largely for facebook a PR move. The meeting was a PR moved. Why did you feel that way? In particularly given the color change has been working. Working with them on this idea of a civil rights audit for while, and that is coming out tomorrow. Yes, so it's the third phase of the Civil Rights Audit and so the first two phases of the audit have a lot of recommendations that have actually not been implemented, and so part of the challenge here is that we get a lot of visibility. We get a lot of thoughts and prayers around changes, but not actual implementation in action and I guess why I sort of talked about. About it as a PR move is because there is sort of a number of statements from facebook, leading up to this meeting over the last I, guess thirty six hours that sort of speak to them, not actually showing up ready to deliver on any real changes Jonathan Derek both I think really clearly laid out that facebook did not come. They had our demands instead of going through them in talking about either why they could make some changes or even why they couldn't. They wanted us. US to sort of reiterate and talk through them and so I think in many ways they are trying to figure out how to communicate to their advertisers that they are trying to work with us that they're trying to engage with us. They're trying to make things happen. And all of that is going to happen under the specter of advertisers like Verizon and Coca Cola and Unilever having their ads show up next to white nationalist content. Because what we're asking facebook to do is to fix problems. Problems that long-term are in your own interest to fix, but unfortunately they have an incentive structure rooted in growth in profit that won't allow them to see it, and that's deeply unfortunate, and that's why I felt like nothing more than a PR move instead of actually working to make real change just when you think of the aims of your organization. He said you. Guys were working on a boycott before this large kinda coalesced other social media, Companies Twitter Youtube for sure etc, have some of. Of these same issues, in fact, often many of these same issues, different formats, but many of the same issues. Why facebook, specifically many of those platforms have issues? Many of those platforms have heard from us about those issues, but the fact of the matter is facebook is the biggest it reaches the most people, and it does the most harm, so that's why the focus on facebook I think. The blatant arrogance around the advertiser exodus proves that we needed to let me this pressure and certainly the. The looters, shooters, comment and facebook's failure to take on calls violence from the President United States certainly renewed the urgency around these calls Zuckerberg did reverse course things you ask for specifically. But when it came to some of the political speech, labeling it, you know he had criticized Jack Dorsey of twitter as being the quote arbiter of truth, and then backtracked on that. Do you believe he backtracked because of the advertiser? Boycott pressures even internally facebook. We can I get in his hand why there? There was a backtrack. We do know looking forward. He has not created a platform to protect society industrial case here. Incremental Change will not solve this issue. Media Spin without address. The concerns are issue. Here is how we keep people safe. How do we protect our democracy and facebook is not accountable to anything. They're not accountable to any regulatory body, the not accountable to shareholders, the percent of the shares, the not accountable to anything, but the wheel of Mark Zuckerberg. That's said dangerous reality that. that. We're living in. We have this behemoth of a company who lack the sympathy. The care that concern for the broader community in I wanted just add quickly as even how he made the change in June. I when I talked with mark about sort of his attack on Jack. And why would he do that? He tried to like Parse that out and explained that he was sort of misquoted in a long interview, but I will say that even when he kind of scale that back. Exactly to what Derek said it really wasn't that. They change any rules that he just said that they would sort of do stuff differently. This is the problem with a single person that gets control of platform with two point. Six billion users as chairperson CEO has sort of unlimited control over everything is that he can make each of these decisions sort of what he thinks and Mark Zuckerberg knows about as much about civil rights and voting rights as I do about coding the. The back end of the facebook platform Derek something so important like when one person isn't anything. At one point in the meeting mark said near the end. We're not meeting with you because of the boycott and Shell reinforced. We're not doing this for advertisers Dan. As we said to them be only reason we met was because this boycott quake can I put you on that? Because reshad talked about meeting with June? First that was before the boycott, not all of you but him. The four of us have never met with Mark Zuckerberg again. It'd be no reason why they would send the no and meet with the four of us. There were only meeting with the four of us collectively together because Guy He was meeting with me and two other leaders, because we had sent a letter about some things related to the audit, and so they were responding in both senses to demands from the outside. Just can I ask you on the boycott? There's been data showing kind of in response to this that even if you take the hundred top advertisers on facebook in terms of money spent, it's still a relatively small percentage of facebook revenue. The facebook still makes most of its money from small mid sized local. Local businesses not from coke, not from target not from Dunkin when you think about that and look at that. Why in the context of that do you think that this boycott? The ad part of it got all of you around the virtual table today. Why are we here right now? This has been all over the press. This is a disaster facebook unmitigated. We've come to the table again and again with them asking for them for change now we have their advertisers coming after them, so they can say. Say what they want. No one thought that we were going to transform Mark Zuckerberg from a billionaire millionaire through this process, but they are responding to pressure. It is working, and we're learning a lot about their business model and the dominance they have over small businesses John Let me final thing for you, which is we have an executive from Ben and Jerry's last week talking about this boycott and I asked him I said. What is it you want from facebook? And he said well what I facebook to. To, do is sit around the table with the four of you. That part has happened. What do you now say to the advertisers? The nearly one thousand brands that have signed onto this? You've sat around the table. They all agreed to pause paid advertising for the month of July. You now say to them what I would say to them. You don't while your ad subsidizing hate. We launched this campaign this pause because your ad dollars indeed were subsidizing extremism, racism, Antisemitism and eight. It had to stop. Stop, we sat with facebook today and they didn't tell us it would stop. We ask her specifics and they couldn't give us any. We asked for commitments and they couldn't give us any. We will turn to the advertisers and we've got caused this afternoon because they want to know what comes next were putting together our plans now. Dan, this isn't going away and this will only grow three weeks ago. Zero companies today almost a thousand. This will grow for you. Should I assume that you will ask advertisers? Advertisers who've suspended for July to expand beyond July. We're going to have conversations with advertisers, but we're also focusing on this month right now. On the fact that Marc Insurance said they were gonNA, come back with a lot of advertisers already said they're staying out through the end of the year, but we're also GONNA see what Mark Insurance do over the course of this next several weeks after having this conversation, I want everyone to understand that we have been quite reasonable here for the last several years. We've. We've been back and forth with meetings. They invited us into a conversation after we sent them demands, and we went in there and had to reiterate our demands. We want to Ashley solve this problem. We do not want to be in perpetual boycott, but we will do everything we can to protect the safety and security of our people, and to protect our elections in this country, and unfortunately, because facebook stands on the other side of that, we are grateful that corporations are willing to stand in the gap. Gap and do what they can. This moment to make sure that our democracy doesn't go down in the tubes, because a corporation has amassed too much power, Derek. It's feasible for companies to disengage from facebook from ad strategies. At least how difficult is it for organizers? You see so many of the protests for example over the past month. A lot of those have been organized by using facebook as a tool using instagram as a tool. Can the community any community disengaged from facebook? The way advertisers can. Monopoly there is no competitor. There is no equivalent and when you look at this coalition, it looks like the protesters in the street, and when you look at the protests in the street. It's like America will facebook. Has this regard for the diversity of who we are and allow white supremacist groups to use the platforms to gather and cause harm to the communities that will want to protest for the America that we all want to live in this platform has gained so much power. There is no accountability metrics. It is incumbent upon are group's group should be here representing a very diverse population to begin to push back because the future harm could be a more devastating than any of us. We will have to leave it there. I WanNa Thank Jessica Derek Jonathan Rashad. Thank you so much, thank you, thank you, thank you. Start Your mornings with the news that matters by listening to axios today and join me your host Labou every weekday. To team of award winning journalist, bringing you insights into the trends shaping our world visit us at axios, dot com, or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Welcome back. We reached out to facebook to see if they wanted to have a representative on this episode and they declined, but they did send over statement and I want to read it in full, so this is for facebook spokesperson. This meeting was an opportunity for us to hear from the campaign organizers and reaffirm our commitment to combating hate on our platform. They want facebook to be free of hate speech, and so we that's why it is so important that we work together to get this right as a company, we agreed to an independent civil rights audit, which will be released tomorrow. We've invested billions and people attack to keep hate. Hate off our platform. We've created new policies to prohibit voter and census interference and have launched largest voting information campaign in American history. We've banned more than two hundred fifty white supremacist organizations, and are holding ourselves accountable by producing regular reports about our content moderation efforts, we know we will be judged by our actions, not by our words, and our grateful to these groups and many others for their continued engagement. and quote. And done vic. Thanks for listening. It's my producers Tim Show Nanny Shaven have a great national macaroni and we'll be back tomorrow with a regular episode of axios recap.
American Ag Today- 8/31/21
"Welcome into another edition of american an today produced by the american egg network. I'm your host jesse allen. Recently i got the chance to talk with scott yeager from the end. Cba during an episode of atoms on agriculture. Last week that i was guest hosting and we talked about lotus and some of the latest details surrounding what is going on with the waters rule and some of the changes that could be coming to it and what. Nc ba is currently looking at and advocating for. Let's listen back to that interview with scott yeager. We'll scott's i appreciate you joining us and Let's talk water. That's a big thing Big topic of discussion right now. And i know it's concerning a lot of farmers and ranchers across the country. What is the latest that you're hearing in regards to wazir as it stands right now today. Be biden's administration has announced that they will repeal and replace the trump will which was called the navigable waters protection rule or. Nwpp are so that means they're going to kill the trump role and replace it with the biden wrote his definition So art of that effort is an outreach strategy to farmers around zoo on builders to the buying groups to solicit input as as they worked towards repealing and replacing the trump rule So actually this week. There's been a number of these listening sessions where. Eps opened up a call in allowed people. Whoever wants to call in to participate provide input on on the matter so and she has been very active in that process. I provided comments to the agencies at bulletin accessions group had billions participate and Or making sure to get our voices heard this process. Well scott you mentioned those listening sessions and getting our voices heard and what are some of the differences between this This biden rule and the trump rule. That was out there that you see is as major issues that you're hearing from farmers and ranchers that they're worried about here As we look forward was that it's because they haven't read So this is going to be a long process. It's gonna be years. I mean it could be your years before we even see what biden is thinking. As far as a definition of otis. So right now. We're on the very start of that process And the amongst ahead are going to be more engaged between us and the agencies to make sure credits trying to get them and in a place where they can develop a replacement that is not going to be harmful to cattle producers specifically but agriculture at large. That's our desire. That's our goal as we're advocating on behalf of our team members of who's being sessions and through developing comments that were filing with the agencies That is our goal. I'm so so that's your question. Go yet we haven't seen it yet. But i suspect what we're they're thinking about this which they are a lot of smart people over there. I think they're gonna try to craft a rule. Gatt threads the deal between the trump rule. The obama rodas rule from twenty-fifty meeting. It'll probably or expansive into trump role but dot is expansive as the obama girl. And i think they're going to do that. Crosby ultimate latest survive off whatever will be craft needs to survive a supreme court challenge. But right now the supreme court is a lot different than it was four years ago. I we've got a cabin course crony back on the bench. They're recon conservative. Was that weren't there before i and the composition out of four quarters is a sixty three conservative majority. So they know that they're gonna if they wanna craft gurgle rule that need to be one that is going to be able to survive. That's print court. Well sky. Know you mentioned threading. The needle between the obama era wa-was rule and the trump era botas rule. Are there certain pieces of either of those rules. That's the nc. A is gonna be advocating for to see in this in this new biden rule. What are your thoughts on that. Yup yup got engineers environmental working group and nashville a couple of weeks ago and sat down around gerbil and said hey how do we feel about wars advocacy role how we run advocacy on the twenty twenty competition under who still comfortable rhythms bored with that As our macarthur orders cable thought about that. We're we're satisfied where and where we're going on. And so what that mean trust is we're going to be continuing down that same path that we've always been which is a rule that is not over reaching a rule that properly Regulates quarters that are truly federal jurisdiction. We're talking about big water features like big lakes speed rivers tributaries that that should properly be be protected by the federal government and then everything else And by everything else. I'm eating or mid feature. Goes that flow water intermittently or only for water in response to a rain shelter. That gouzer crop those not to be regular by the federal and that's that's that would be federal overreach. I'm so those are the kind of broad stroke but offered him in addition to the role itself. What's really important. Culture is that our con- agricultural exclusions contained in the rule and That is something that the comparable good or very well. It's something that. The obama rule do fail to appropriately. I'm so the question out of the by watching what the administration does are. They're going to be able to Struck a balance here in a way that that keeps cattle producer. A good place doesn't over-regulate wows with business without having to get permission from the epa and the army corp engineers every time you clean out as a stock pond or gig a gash arbiza cattle round. So questions that we're asking those issues we're going to be watching develops and again. That's my recent interview with scott yeager from the ncb talking about wallis and the farm progress show is getting some country music attention this week case i h is bringing nashville recording artist lee brice to the event where he'll debut his latest song called former performance is set for wednesday as we were. You know talking. You know Case and myself. And i was like you know i said you know they were talking about a song and and i wanna know where you wanting to come from. Is this something that you know. You won't until like you know Put case on a pedestal. You know or they're like no no no that they're like that that's not at all we want we. We want to want to put the farmers in the people who who you know who we who live with and we work with every day on that pedestal during this song. And and so. 'cause 'cause i said hey i can go right a solid case in it all day long. You know. but they're like no. That's not what we're looking for. We want something that really just score fis something. That doesn't get a very big. Thank you all the time you know and not very often. Bryce is a native of sumter south carolina record at eight number one singles in his career. Again he'll perform at the farm progress. Show wednesday here this week. You've been listening to another edition of american today. Produced by the american egg network. I'm your host jesse allen wishing you and yours a great rest of your day.
Activists: Gloria Steinem
"Hello Wonder Media, network I'm Jenny Kaplan, and this is encyclopedia were Manteca. Including this month Manteca with a feminist icon known for her incredible reporting skills and tireless activism. She created several organizations that still provide vital work for the support of women, and she continues to be a voice for women's rights today. Let's talk about the unstoppable Gloria Steinem. And now the new form of obstructionism into is to say what was over. You know just to keep you from doing anything more. It's so just begun. Gloria Steinem was born on March twenty, fifth nineteen, thirty four until Lido Ohio her father was a traveling salesman which meant Gloria. Didn't regularly attend school when she was young instead her mother tutor her on the road and encouraged glorious love of books. When Gloria was ten years old her parents divorced her mother soon started suffering from a mental illness that caused hallucinations and difficulty functioning this required Gloria to become a full time caretaker. Gloria. Leader remarked that her childhood caused her to grow up too soon and instilled a determination to overcome every obstacle. Glorious. Returned home after graduating from high school to help take care of their mother allowing fifteen year old Gloria to attend Smith College Massachusetts where she studied government. After graduating with honors in Nineteen fifty six, Gloria earned a fellowship that allowed her to study in India for two years. Glorious Time in India was the catalyst for her love of grassroots activism there she traveled with local women to fight against injustices like selling low caste women into marriage, and she absorbed the writings of Mahatma Gandhi. When Gloria returned to the US she started working as a freelance journalist in New York, this was an era when newsrooms and editorial desks were run almost entirely by. White men women were relegated to writing lifestyle or fashion pieces at first glorious career was no different. She frequently tried to suggest political ideas but editor shut her down time and time again then in nineteen, sixty, three, Gloria gained national attention. When show magazine hired her to go undercover at a playboy club to report on the working conditions there Well, they were taking anything. Disaster is job and ISO, and I wrote an expose of of being about about the working conditions and and what started out as a joke actually became. Something that was not so funny even though this was before I was. involving. At the time waitressing at playboy clubs was advertised as glamorous exciting career opportunity for young women. But glorious expose I was a playboy bunny revealed the sexist underpaid overworked nature of the job. Though this legendary article Made Gloria, a household name, she initially struggled to be taken seriously as a reporter after it's release. Despite the challenge glorious strive to build her career and nineteen, sixty eight, she helped found New York magazine. As an editor and political writer at New York magazine Gloria covered campaigns, and social issues like the Women's Liberation Movement. But her involvement in the movement quickly went beyond that of passive reporter in Nineteen, sixty nine she spoke publicly at an event advocating the legalization of abortion in New York. Florida became a sought after Speaker Women's liberation protests and events. She became a spokesperson for the movement and a tireless advocate for women's rights. In one, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy feminist activists staged an eleven hour sit in on the magazine ladies home. Journal one hundred women marched into the office and protested the majority male staffs sexist writing and refusal to cover women's rights issues after this landmark event Gloria knew there was a place for a women's Movement magazine she teamed up with fellow journalists. Patricia Carbine, and Letty. Cotton POGREBIN TO CREATE MS magazine in Nineteen Seventy One news was initially an insert into New York magazine but by nineteen seventy, two, it became an entity of its own. Lori would be a writer and editor for the magazine for fifteen years. Gloria toward the country as a speaker led protests and teamed up fellow feminists like Shirley, Chisholm, and Betty for Dan to create the National Women's Political Caucus. The NWPP raises money provides training and gathers volunteers for women, candidates, state, and local levels. Gloria also helped found organizations including the women's Action Alliance the Women's Media Centre voters for choice, and the News Foundation for women. She also helped create take our daughters to. Work Day in the nineties, which was an effort to show variety of career opportunities to young girls. Gloria has written several books including the best selling memoir my life on the road, the book details, Glorious Childhood, and Development as an activist alongside the burgeoning women's liberation. Movement Gloria has received many honors and accolades for her activism in two thousand thirteen President Obama granted Gloria the Presidential Medal of freedom speaking of game changers. As a writer, the speaker, an activist she awakened a vast and often skeptical public to problems like domestic violence. A lack of affordable childcare unfair hiring practices. Because of her work across America around the world more women are afforded the respect and opportunities that they deserve. But she also changed how women thought about themselves in two thousand seventeen rutgers university created the Gloria Steinem endowed chair in media culture and Feminist Studies Gloria Steinem is a prominent and passionate activist for women everywhere who's helped to expand the opportunities available for women and girls across the country. This episode concludes our month all about activists. But Join US tomorrow October first for the beginning of a brand new. Holiday. For more on why we're doing what we're doing check out our newsletter Manica weekly follow us on facebook and Instagram at Encyclopedia. Will Manteca. Follow me directly on twitter at Jenny M Kaplan. Special. Thanks to my favorite sister and co-creator was Catholic. Talk to you tomorrow. I WanNa tell you about another podcast. I. Think. You'll love we hear about Trans People in the news all the time, but we almost never hear trans people telling their own stories. The Trans Slash podcast with Mr, Jones is changing that by creating a space that centers the voices of Trans People in conversations about. Politics and culture. It's hosted by Amara Jones a peabody and Emmy Award winner. She's also a Black Trans Woman and journalist and tomorrow understands that Trans people telling their own stories and having a voice in the conversation that affects them. We'll save trans lives. So if you're trans and looking for a news and culture show centers, you or an ally who wants to learn more check out the Trans Slash podcast, you can hear a new episode, every other Thursday subscribe to the Trans Lash podcast wherever you listen.
The Ocho: It's finally time for Ravens week to begin
"Introducing built to last a new podcast by american express. I'm elaine well trough. And i'm excited to host debut season where we will be deep diving into the stories history and continued legacy of small businesses. That shape american culture through these important conversations will hear how the black business leaders are. Pass have inspired. Today's black owned small businesses and communities. Join us for the debut season of built to last on spotify apple youtube or wherever you get your favorite podcast of america org what role to welcome to another episode of the ocho entity in partnership as always espy nations blogging. The boys dot com arduous. Showing me of course. From de beers you're humble host onto the ocho. It is friday december. Four th two thousand and twenty. We hope all is oh wherever you are. We hope you're happy safe healthy and that you enjoyed thursday night able to do something else. Obviously this was supposed to be originally are dallas cowboys baltimore ravens postgame. Show that we would have streamed live on our youtube channel. If you did not know we do. do that. Goes subscribe to the blog on the boys youtube channel but obviously the cowboys ravens game has been postponed twice now and as you are aware it will take place on tuesday nights so the cowboys went from being the first game of week. Thirteen the last game and as a result this week has gotten very weird and very strange from a timing perspective. The season has obviously been very weird and very strange in a number of ways from a scheduling perspective. This is without question. The weirdest season that i've ever experienced as it als- cowboys fan. It's the weirdest thing. I've ever experienced covering the dallas cowboys. As long as i've been in this and so we're in this kind of weird purgatory of time where it's about time to start getting ready for the next game You know as far as the coverage practices and regimen are concerned But but you know. Every other team is already well into the thick of their week. Thirteen preparation so it is very strange. It's obviously different than kind of your monday night. Football prep which Can be delayed as far as everything is concerned but it is different. And so we're gonna have some some interesting conversations. I on the feed throughout the rest of the weekend. Obviously later today you will have a new episode of girls. Talk and boys with kelsey charleston. Meg murry so look forward to that tomorrow. New episode of cowboy with motoria's. We'll drop something on sunday. Just because because everything's weird so we'll we'll drop something on sunday so that you know if you're still excited for the cowboys to play we'll make sure to To have something available for you and then of course monday. We'll wrap up everything from week. Thirteen sunday action. Which will also do on monday. Monday on the espn nfl show. By the way. I am now on a new show on. Espn nfl show. Feud if you like me and you know hey appreciate that you can hear me on. Look ahead every thursday also on the espn nation nfl show. That is its own. Podcast feed so search for the espionage and nfl. show wherever you get your podcast. Subscribe leave a rating writer review. Do those things for blog on the boys as well please and you can hear myself with rob stats guerrero preview. Really the week of action. That is to come with regards to the nfl. I talked about how i think. Doug peterson would make a great head. Coach of the los angeles chargers cowboys fans like myself. Who would love to see. Doug peterson leave the nfc east. I hope that the eagles. I hope the eagles kind of just surround themselves or or kind of bury themselves in carson wentz. That would be fun so I would very much enjoy that. On the subject of subscribing rating and reviewing our shadow of the day goes to nathan pain on twitter at the real. Nwpp i mentioned people have been sharing. You know what they listen to throughout two thousand and twenty specifies a great job of organizing that. Nathan's top podcasts. Blogs moist podcasts have shadow to nathan another shadow special shoutout to to be friend to the show from atlanta falcons dot com wrote about you. Remember certainly the moment between atlantis tied and hayden hearst and dak prescott after the cow always came. Back to beat the falcons he- hearst and his mother have a foundation geared towards mental health. And so matt wrote about the relationship that was kind of born in the moment when hayden enac began talking. Obviously that was a really tense. Time in the cowboys season. Very tense time. For dak. Prescott under scrutiny. From one particular place we don't have to get into it for speaking up and being very brave and talking about his mental health. It was a really great read I re tweeted a blog on the boys as account re tweeted. It's a check it out. but yeah the cowboys. Now are getting ready for the baltimore. Ravens and Spent thursday as mike. Mccarthy talked about on wednesday attending In a virtual sense the services for marcus paul and so. They held a light practice on wednesday but thursday obviously was devoted to that and so friday kind of begins the week right. You know you got your friday. Saturday sunday practice. You would think. And then travel on monday and tuesdays all of a sudden your game day. It does seem like lamar jackson's going to play. I would imagine that. Mark ingram's going to play i would imagine. Jk dobbins is going to play. I think there's bryant's score touchdown. I'm already on the record saying that. But you know this is. This isn't even a must-win game for the cowboys. I wrote about this at length and matt mcewen and i kind of talked about this on thursday's episode the cowboys could could lose this game. And and sort of have their odds both in a literal literal sense improve to win the nfc east. And that's just kind of the state of the division as a whole right now. And that's what's made this season so you crisis that we've obviously been dealing with covert and dealing with dak prescott injury in a billion other injuries in the nfc east being so bad. And it being the first year of mike mccarthy so it's like this confluence this sh mortgage board the stew of weird gross awful annoying. Whatever word you want to attribute to it factors and so they're five games left and look if you wanna root for the tank by all means go for it. And we have our routing guides valuable for you though hit social media throughout the weekend. If i if your team tanker your to win the nfc east. But i am committed to enjoy the rest of this dallas cowboys season. Whatever that chaos is going to bring because the cowboys and ravens have a really interesting history. You know you think about it. I mean the cowboys beat the ravens for the first time ever that time. They played in two thousand sixteen. That was the first game by the way after. Tony romo's famous. Football is america crecy speech so i mean yeah and the ravens played the last game ever won the last game ever at texas stadium right the end of the two thousand not the final week of the season but what became the last home. Game for the cowboys. So this is an interesting mocatta rivalry but an interesting connection and so weird. Things happened when dallas plays baltimore. Obviously the dallas cowboys lost super bowl. Five of the baltimore colts different franchise. But still so i. I certainly believe that this game will be weird. I think that we might see a cowboys team that that kind of came off know of their by week last time. Come off of a pseudo sort of by here. And i i'm not gonna say i think the cowboys a win. But i think the best shot of any team to win in week thirteen because every other team is up against a ridiculous thing speaking of ridiculous things we wrote about this blog on the boys know dak prescott for our donald for trevor lawrence. No i'm on record. No we don't want that so in case you were wondering hey do me a favor. Have the absolute best friday of all time. You know why because you deserve it. My friends is always go cowboys and peace app.
"N. P. R.. Everyone Stacey in Cardiff here is indicated from planet money and today's episode is garbage guarded. Wait No, hang on a second. That's not where. You have to there. You're supposed to pretend like you don't know it's garbage. Misread conclusions. Yeah, no, it says here. This episode is actually about garbage partly, so it's a key phrase there about garbage. Yes, it is and part of the reason for that is that one of our wonderful listeners asked us about garbage? That is right. It is time for another episode where we answer your questions. Yeah, and let's get right to it. Here is the garbage question from Listener Michaela in West Virginia, I have a trashy question. Now that we're all staying at home working from home, eating at home more. How is this affecting the distribution of waste and how our waste management companies handling it I? Love this question. Michaela! I've actually been thinking about this a lot, because not only are a lot more people at home throughout the day, but also a lot of restaurants and bars are still closed, so people are eating at home a lot more as well, and all of that means that people are now throwing out a lot more trash at home in their residential neighborhoods. Yeah, and just how much more trash is being thrown out of homes because of krona virus kind of depends on where you live but to. To Take Philadelphia's and example, the volume of residential trash during March April of this year was about twenty five percent higher than it was. During March and April of last year and estimates for other parts of the country have varied, they range from five percent higher all the way to forty percent higher, but whatever the case it's a lot trash from households is usually collected either by local sanitation departments, or by privately run waste management companies, and those guys are just in demand like crazy right now. They're really overwhelmed even to the point where other services like recycling pickup and street cleaning have been cut back in some places, because there is just so much trash pickup from homes. Yeah in the trend goes in exactly the opposite direction for trash that gets collected from commercial buildings from offices that is way down and these waste management companies that handle commercial trash are struggling just like other parts of the economy demand for their services has fallen because so many of their customers have closed their doors. Some of these waste management companies have even furloughed workers, and they are running fewer routes, but Cardiff I have a question about our garbage question, which is this yet? WHAT ABOUT OVERALL GARBAGE? If you combine the waste from residential homes and businesses is our overall trash upper down. I would assume. Assume that it would be down because so many businesses are closed But what is the verdict on over? Always? Yeah, that's definitely possible. I gotta be honest. I looked all over the place for a nationwide estimate of just overall trash accumulation trash volumes since corona virus started I could not find. One might not exist just yet, but if any of our listeners have seen such an estimate, then by all means feel free to send it to us at indicator at NPR dot org, and there is a little side note on our garbage story by the way a workers who collect trash there about one. Twenty thousand of them throughout the country, they are not just categorized as essential workers workers who have kept doing their jobs throughout the pandemic. This is also really dangerous work, so we wanted to give them a little shoutout. Little Shoutout, yeah! According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the share of people who die on the job while collecting trash or recyclable material is the fifth highest share of any occupation in the country and the most common reason for this vehicle accidents, but the work itself is also physically taxing workers potentially. Potentially expose themselves to chemicals and toxins every single day, and now of course krona virus has added a new element of danger to trash collection. Because the trash they're picking up could have been handled by someone who has covid nineteen, so a lot of the workers have to take these extra precautions like wearing an extra pair of gloves or having their trucks disinfected things like that and thanks for that question Michaela, we really appreciate it, and after a quick break station, I will take two more listener questions about different topics. Support for NPR and the following message come from Zen desk, making customer support software designed for speed and agility, now offering a six month complimentary remote support bundle that comes with everything you need to stay connected with your customers. Go Zen desk dot com slash indicator. Okay next listener question comes from rob in Brooklyn New York on Social Media I've been seen a great push. Encouraging people to support black businesses I found out that there's an index fund that is specifically composed of minority owned businesses. How does a fund of minority owned businesses work? Most importantly could investing in a fund like this actually be a way to support black companies. Thanks for that rob and yeah, there are two parts to this question one is. How does this fund work and then second? Is it a good way to invest in black owned businesses, so we'll take those questions in order so I. The fund that Rob is referring to is called the impact shares nwpp minority empowerment fund, but we'll just refer to it here as the fund. That's the only fund we're talking about the fund and here's how the fund works. The Fund says that it will invest in companies that have quote, strong, racial and ethnic diversity policies in place and quote. But, of course I, it has to identify those companies, so the fund worked with the N. W. C. P.. The civil rights organization to come up with a list of criteria that could be used to judge whether a company has a good diversity policy in place in those criteria can include things like the quality of companies, anti-discrimination policies or its efforts to diversify its own workforce, its employees and there are ten criteria in all, and if a company scores high enough on these criteria, then it gets placed into an index. The fund does. Is it invest a little money in all the companies that make it into? Into the index and it this by purchasing shares of those companies in stock market, which means that if you invest in the fund itself, which is what rob is asking about. You're buying shares of fund that itself own shares of a bunch of other companies. It's kind of like a sampler platter of stocks, and as for which companies to fund is invested in. They are mostly big companies big enough to trade on the stock market, so for example the companies that the fund has the most money invested in our Amazon, Microsoft and Apple, but rob about investing directly in black owned businesses, and that is just. Different, from what this actually does, which is to put money into companies that meet certain criteria for policies on racial and ethnic diversity? Yeah, that's right, and so basically we looked around and there just seems to be no shortcut that we could find for investing directly in black owned businesses, most of which are not these huge companies that trade on the Stock Exchange so you have to. To try to find those businesses and weigh the risks of investing in them about the possible rewards, just like other investments but all that said there are some very useful lists online directories that can help discover black owned businesses. These are on sites like a block Wall Street DOT COM and we'll post them. Other links in today's show notes at NPR DOT Org. Slash money. Our final question comes from Kathy in Florida. The unemployment rate doesn't measure how much the GIG economy contracts is their way to measure that so cathy. The short answer is no. We do not know exactly how much the GIG economy has either grown or contracted because of corona virus mainly because the GIG economy, itself is really hard to measure yet. Most people think of Gig work as uber drivers or someone who delivers you groceries that you ordered on Insta- card. Card, the APP or the handyman that you found on task. Grab it big GIG. Work can actually be any kind of work that people do that is not done as part of formal employment for business. It can be someone who makes homemade baskets and sells them. Online is a hobby or can be graphic designers who freelance by making web pages as their main job, though we should note that only about one out of five people who do Gig work in. In the US, do it as their main source of income, but the point is that some of the GIG economy could be seeing more demand like food delivery drivers while other parts are seeing less demand, just because overall economic activity has fallen so much. Here is what we do know now roughly fourteen million gig workers are claiming unemployment insurance benefits because their work has been affected by corona virus in some way in fact more than two out of every five. Five people who are now claiming unemployment benefits are gig workers. Now that so many other people have lost their jobs non gig workers, a lot of these newly unemployed workers are themselves trying to Gig work to make a little money, and this means that people who were doing gig work before the pandemic started now have more competition, so he might not get paid as much as they were getting paid before. A lot of gay workers just really are struggling. Thank you Michaela and Cathy for your questions, and of course. If you have a question for us, we would love to hear it. You can email us a voice memo that is indicator at NPR. Dot Org and we might address it in a future episode. This episode of the indicator was produced by Camille, Peterson fact checked by Britney Cronin. The indicator is edited by Paddy Hirsch and is a production of NPR.
Howard Schultz's Big Homework Assignment
"Hey, your confidence is important and sometimes one change can make all the difference hair. Club knows this and they're inviting you to become part of the hair club family to see how getting the most out of your hair can change your life. Go to hear club dot com slash teepee. N today for a free hair analysis and a free take home hairc-haircut all valued at over three hundred dollars. That's hair club dot com slash teepee. N for a free hair analysis and free haircare kit hair club dot com slash TBN with over two million Americans suffering from opioid addiction. Walmart is taking action to help communities across the country by limiting certain non chronic prescriptions to a seven day supply and requiring e prescriptions for controlled substances by twenty twenty to help tackle the crisis and save lives. Learn more at WalMart dot com slash prevention. Hey, everyone. I'm David Chaldean the CNN political director, and this is the daily DC. Thanks so much for listening today on the podcast, Howard Schultz, big homework assignment. If you were watching CNN's townhall last night here in Houston, Texas with poppy Harlow moderating. You saw Howard Schultz have the opportunity to tell his story rags to riches and explain why he's running as an independent, which he clearly said was about a broken system where neither the left nor the right in American politics is really addressing Americans concerns. Even at one point. He asked everyone in the audience, please raise your hand, if you're sort of happy and pleased and satisfied with what your government, and your politics is delivering you and not a single person raised their hand. He felt that of course, that was proving his point that there was a real opportunity to bust up that two party system and make. Successful independent bid. But here's what I mean by homework. Assignment Schultz kept coming back to those themes over and over and over again, no matter what sort of topic area. What issue area was it was a diagnosis of the problem of why left and right. Whether it is health care or climate change and a green new deal or taxes. Why the left and the right don't have the right solution? But what was lacking? And what I think is going to be his big challenge moving forward as he continues to seriously consider an independent bid for the presidency is to really put meat on the bones of what he's proposed solutions are. So if left and right are not getting it. Right. Where does Schultz come down on what the right solution would be to tackle healthcare or green new deal or climate change? Or what have you this isn't to say where is Howard show? Ten page white paper with a fifty point plan on each of these issues we've seen whether from Barack Obama or Donald Trump presidential candidates successfully make their way to the Oval Office without necessarily giving into that demand of the press or their opponents for detailed white policy papers that are easily then picked apart. But there is something in between what shelters providing which is just a pure diagnosis of the problem and actual solutions now on healthcare, for instance, he put out broad principles. He talked about interstate commerce. He talked about having competition in the system and the need for everyone in the country as a right to have affordable accessible healthcare. But that is that is not a plan. Right. Those are broad principles of what would be guiding. Him. So this is this will be his big challenge. And now there were a few other headlines out of the town hall that I I want to play for you here. I I want you to hear poppy Harlow press Schultz about this notion of being a quote unquote spoiler award. He is used as well he clearly wanted to reframe that and get away from that word, but he had said in the past that he's not gonna do anything and he would not make this race. If he thought it was going to reelect Donald Trump. This is addressing the criticism from the left. Take a listen when poppy pressed him on what he would do if the evidence was indicating his presence in the race actually would be helping Donald Trump get reelected, if the math doesn't tally up why get to the next three or four months, and I take my message out to the American people and continue to talk this way about how concerned I am about the country, and how much I think we can do so much better under a different. Process if the numbers don't add up, I will not run for president because I will not do anything whatsoever to reelect Donald Trump. But no one wants to see him fired. Whether it be Mr Schulz, followed, the fall of twenty twenty is what I was asked about if you do run and the numbers don't add up your way, and it looks like it would mean a second term for the president. Would you commit to dropping out? What I've just said is I I am not going to run for president. If it looks in any way shape, but you know, look at twenty sixty things change they do change. But at this point right now, I'm asking a different question. And that is a lot less about me than giving the American people a voice that they don't have and what better expression of our democracy than giving the American people a better choice. I knew choice. There's nothing in the constitution. Not one word that says anything about parties. So why can't I raise my voice and say I'm deeply concerned about where we are as a country on deeply concerned about our standing in the world, which we have not gotten into. And I want to restore a set of values and dignity back into the Oval Office. And I want to see the American people once again feel as if America is a place for everyone, regardless of your station in life, the color of your skin, your sexual orientation, your gender. That everyone has an opportunity in America and give the power of our government back to the American people. So what you heard there was a non-answer. Right. I mean Schultz was not committing to dropping out of this race in the fall of twenty twenty. He kept going back saying he wouldn't be a candidate. Would poppy was asking. Of course is if you are already a candidate and everything you're looking at all the polling, data, all the focus groups all the information. You can get your hands on is telling you that your presence in the race come fall of twenty twenty ease likely to reelect Donald Trump would you drop out of this race. That is not something he would commit to doing. There are couple of other areas where he wasn't quite ready to give an answer. Papi pressed Schultz as did a member of the audience about whether or not he would divest from Starbucks in order to avoid any potential conflicts of interest. He also while clearly wanting to preserve all options. I it seemed to me he was really trying to make sure with so much of his wealth tied up in in starbuck stocks that nothing he would say would somehow upset the Starbucks balance sheet in this period of time, clearly not ready to roll out his plan to separate himself from the company entirely, but not wanting to commit that he would absolutely divest himself from Starbucks. Take a listen if you run for president if you become President, Mr Scholtz will you sell all of your shares in Starbucks while I think we're getting way premature? This is my this is my third week since thinks sixty minute I think people laugh, but you're seriously considering yet you have a huge stake over two billion dollars in Starbucks. The biggest market for Starbucks will soon be China, and we have seen what has happened in this presidency. I think the best way to say that is that I will do nothing whatsoever to have any conflict of interest between my investments overall or my interest in the company that I love because I will put the role and responsibility and the accountability for results. I if I run for president and I'm fortunate enough to win and that is a promise I make to the American people. Have you not decided if he would sell all of your shares? I I don't think that's the question. I think there's multiple ways to do this. No, no, I'm not. I'm not a vague question. Let's there's multiple ways to do this to set up a blind trust to do lots of things to remove any conflict of interest and one final answer that Shultz gave last night on the issue of race an issue that he dealt with during his tenure Starbucks how he would approach race relations as president. I want you to hear his answer here. And we'll talk about it on the other side. Why I think it may still come around as an answer that he's going to have to clarify at some point the situation in Philadelphia that occurred I don't know how many people know the exact story, and I'll try and be brief to African American gentlemen, walked into the store. They asked to use the bathroom. They were asked to buy something. They didn't something happened verbally between them and the manager the manager decided to call nine one one the men were arrested handcuffed. Thank god. They didn't resist. And they were put in jail and it created a tremendous problem for the company. We immediately went to Philadelphia we met with the two gentlemen, we met with clergy we met with DA. But most importantly, we realized that we had a problem. And it's a problem that I think exists widely in this country. And it's something that I would characterize as unconscious bias that many of us have based on our own life experience. And as a result of that we decided that we should close every store at Starbucks at great expense. Not for a PR stunt not for marketing, but the train one hundred eighty thousand people, and then we got experts who could help us do it Cheryl Iphofen NWPP, Bryan Stevenson, common Mellody Hobson, a whole host of people who could help us with the curriculum. It was four hours of training, which is not something that's going to change people's view. And now, we're and we're training everyone that comes into Starbucks because we hire almost fifty thousand new people a year the training is ongoing. The. Training is deeply a courageous act because we're doing something that we've realized we fell short on. And we're meeting the fact that we have to get better at this. And I think this is in many ways a proxy for the country. We have to be able to have uncomfortable conversations, we have to talk to people who are different than ourselves. We have to embrace the diversity of the nation. Starbucks is a diverse organization, and we want to do everything we can it was a terrible moment for the company. It's not something that we're gonna forget. And it's something that we learned a great deal from and we're still learning about and I would just say as somebody who up in a very diverse background as a young boy in the projects. I didn't see color as a young boy. And I honestly don't see color now. And I want to do everything I can in terms of the character and the dignity of what it means to be the president. I'd states. I don't see color is not necessarily an answer. That everybody that he was looking to speak to in that answer. Here's an welcomes as a positive. I wonder if he is going to the next time he has the opportunity to discuss race and talk about it. If he adjusts his language there. It'll be something to watch for and how much he sort of also learns in this experience and adjusts when he does get some criticism, and there was a bunch of that on Twitter as the town hall was going on last night when he said he doesn't see color, I'm guessing not one really to make predictions. But I'm guessing he's going to adjust that language in future settings. So I think that Schultz was able in a very big way in a presidential style townhall format to get his story out to the public and introduce them to the public. But I think in doing so he also left a big question. Mark hanging over his potential candidacy, which is we get. Get it that you think the system is failing America right now. And neither the left nor the right have the answers. But in order for the for that to be a motivating force. It seems to me that Chilton's going to have to be able to offer some potential answers and solutions of his own for people to gravitate around. And that is something he did not do last night at the town hall with any kind of specificity that does it for this edition of the daily DC. Thank you so much for listening hope you'll tune in again right here tomorrow. Hey, Sekou Smith here from the hang time podcast. Join me, and my main man John Shuman every week as we break down, the latest, NBA, news and storylines with. Yes. From around the league, be sure to subscribe to NBA hang time on apple podcasts. Spotify an NBA dot com slash podcast for new episodes every Monday and Thursday this season.
(Almost) 100 Years of the Equal Rights Amendment
"This episode is brought to you by Katy keene from the creator of Riverdale comes a sparkling adventure in the big apple full of fashion drama and dreams colliding with real life. It's new series Katy keene Thursdays eight seven central on the CW or stream free on the CW APP singer-songwriter Josie whore. Hey with his eye on Broadway it girl oh pepper and fashion east a legend to be Katie. In New York City of eight million therefore of a kind high style has a new name. Katy keene the fashionable new series Thursdays is it eight seven central on the CW or stream free anytime on the CW APP guys. My Name Is Sammy J. I've been working as a correspondent and interviewer. Since I was thirteen and now at seventeen I am so honored to be the youngest person to have her own. PODCAST on iheartradio. It's called. Let's be real with Sammy. J well indepth depth and unfiltered conversations with celebrities. Activists Athletes and influencers will cover topics. We're curious about topics. My guests are passionate about and topics many of us or just too afraid to talk about I get past the fluff to what we go there and it's fun pretty crazy and very revealing. Listen to let's be real with Sammy. J on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcast welcome to stuff. You missed in history class. A production of iheartradio's how stuff works Hello and welcome to the bond cast. I'm Tracy Wilson and I'm Holly Frank in January of this year which is twenty twenty if you're listening to old back. Episodes at some point in the future Virginia became the thirty eighth states or ratify the equal rights amendment and. That's the number of states that are needed to add that amendment to the US Constitution so as of a recording this. That's really recent news but the effort to add this amendment or one like it to the constitution has been going on for a really long time a different version of it was I propose almost one hundred years ago and it was reintroduced in every congressional session between one thousand nine hundred eighty three and nineteen seventy two. I've found this this amazing statistic that about ten percent of the constitutional amendments that have been proposed in Congress have been the equal rights amendment or something related and the effort to get it ratified has gone on for almost fifty years of Virginia became the thirty eighth state to ratify just a few weeks ago but the deadline to do that past past decades ago. czyz just been lingering for so long. This amendment has been through cycles of support and opposition but one thing that has held true. Is that the loudest loudest voices on both sides. Have Been Women. So that's the story we're gonNA tell today the. US Constitution is the Supreme Law of the United States. It sets up the framework for the nation's government. And it also establishes a set of fundamental rights. The constitution also includes a process for how to make changes to it which is in article five unless two thirds of the states call for a constitutional convention. This starts in Congress with proposed amendments requiring two thirds. It's of both the Senate and the House of Representatives to vote in favour after getting approval amendments have to be ratified by three quarters of the state's most of the time this also happens through voting in the state legislatures. Nancy been not three voting one time. And that's when prohibition was repealed so getting two thirds of Congress and the legislatures of three quarters of the states to all agree on something is pretty challenging that is on purpose the framers of the Constitution and recognize that it was a work in progress and that the world changes so there needed to be a way to change the constitution. But it had also taken a lot of work hurt to get the constitution written and ratified in the first place and a lot of that negotiation was really built on the idea that the next wave of legislators wouldn't be able able to just come in and rewrite the whole thing on a whim the framers also thought that if changes to the constitution were too frequent or two massive. It would leads you all kinds of social economic and political instability and possibly just threaten the entire thing as of when we are recording this the Constitution Institution has twenty seven amendments and neither the main body of the constitution nor any of the amendments specify that US citizens have equal rights regardless of their sex the fourteenth amendment which was added after the civil war does include an equal protection clause which says that no state can quote deny to any person within its jurisdiction fiction the equal protection of the laws but when the fourteenth amendment was drafted it rested on the assumption that there were two classes black and white who I should have equal protection under the laws it has only been in relatively recent years that the Supreme Court has interpreted the fourteenth amendment as applying to other races or ethnicities MRIs or to sex or gender the efforts add an equal rights amendment to the constitution started just after the ratification of the nineteenth amendment that amendment unmet reads quote the right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of sex Congress. Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. The National Women's Party had been established in the nineteen teens to fight for women's suffrage including in fighting for this amendment. And then after the nineteen th amendment was ratified on August Eighteenth Nineteen twenty the NWPP turned its attention toward a new amendment and that is one that would guarantee equal rights between the sexes and general not just for voting members of the NWPP proposed various wording in the version that was presented to Congress Congress in one thousand nine hundred. Eighty three was written primarily by Alice Paul and Crystal Eastman they called it the Motte Amendment in honor of Lucretia Mott it was introduced by Senator Charles Curtis and representative Daniel Anthony Junior. Who Was Susan B. Anthonys nephew a joint resolution on this was introduced on December Twenty Third Nineteen twenty any three and it read quote resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress? Assembled two thirds of each house. Concurring there in that the following article is proposed as an amendment to the Constitution of the United States which shall be valid to all intents and purposes as part of the Constitution when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states. Men and women shall have equal rights throughout the United States and every place subject to its jurisdiction Congress. So have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation introducing a joint resolution is just the first step in the process of amending the Constitution Russian. A joint resolution is a bill and before a bill gets voted on. It goes to a committee which can research the matter discuss and make changes the committee he can then send the revised bill to the House or the Senate for further debate and discussion or they can send it to a subcommittee for yet more research. It's only after both the House and the Senate that have actually debated and voted on the joint resolution and passed it by a two-thirds majority that it goes to the states for ratification so when Senator Curtis Representative Anthony introduced a joint resolution on the equal rights amendment in one thousand nine hundred twenty three. It was not voted on or sent to the states for ratification. At that time it went to the House and Senate Judiciary Committees and stayed there. It's easy to imagine that what happened. Next was almost fifty years of of bogged down bureaucracy or legislative foot-dragging over what seems like a pretty basic question of whether citizens of the United States have equal rights regardless of their sex but really the women's movement was divided over this amendment. Legislators were hearing from constituents who oppose this amendment before it was even introduced in a lot of that. Opposition came from women. We're GONNA talk about this more after we pause for a sponsor break a little early in the chauffeur break we now. We want to keep all this together. This episode of stuff. You missed in history classes brought to you by Katy keene from the creator of Riverdale comes a sparkling adventure in the Big Apple Fulla AH fashion drama and dreams colliding with real life. It's new series Katy keene Thursdays eight seven central on the W or stream for free on the. CW APP singer. Songwriter Josie Ho. Hey with his eye on Broadway it girl pepper and fashion east alleged to be Katie in New York City of eight million therefore of a kind they are friends friends. He would give everything for their dreams and do anything for each other. The Big Apple had better watch out because no matter who or what gets in the way they are about to take a big obey these four determined determined dreamers take on the runway the recording studio Broadway in the New York City social scene where they will find more than just careers in the big city they will find forever friendships in a city of style. Katy keene is the perfect fit. High style has a new name. It's Katy keene. The fashionable new series Thursdays at eight seven central on the CW W. or stream free anytime on the CW APP. This episode of stuff. You missed in history. Classes brought to you by Norton three sixty with lifelock. Let's just say you're shopping online with your smartphone. I'd do it all the time. 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That's Norton Dot Com slash history for twenty five percent shirow throughout the history of the equal rights amendment. Some of its support. An opposition has been connected to the idea of what a woman is supposed to be and and really broad strokes people who have believed that a woman's place is in the home being wife and a mother they've been more likely to oppose the amendment while people who believe that a woman should be able to pursue any vocation that she chooses. They've been more likely to support the amendment but regardless of whether there's opinions have been rooted in Religion Legion or biology or in some other factor. It has never been only about this kind of ideology in the beginning. A lot of women's opposition to the amendment was was because of labor rights and specific rights. That women were afraid they were going to lose if the amendment passed between about eighteen. Ninety and nineteen twenty working working women had lobbied for and won a number of workplace protections in many states this included minimum wage laws maximum hour laws and laws prohibiting prohibiting women from being assigned to overnight shifts or dangerous work these laws apply to women only men were not perceived as needing this kind of protection and the US Supreme Court had issued decisions. Supporting the idea that these kind of laws were constitutional for example there was nineteen. Oh eight ruling link in Muller Versus Oregon and Oregon at the time it was illegal for women working in factories to have a workday that was longer than ten hours. Curt Muller Muller who owned a laundry. Business was fine when he violated that law and he took the matter to court. The question before the Supreme Court was whether Oregon's law violated violated the Fourteenth Amendment's equal protection clause and the court's opinion. was that no. It did not because women could bear children and were socially expected to raise and care for those children. It was within the states interest to limit their hours at work. I do want to point out that not every woman can or does want Bert children and raise them. But that was the argument. Labor reformers thought correctly that if the Mont amendments were added to the Constitution these types of laws would be abolished polished stripping women of protections that they had worked to secure and the women most likely to be affected. Didn't feel like the National Women's Party was listening to or understanding naming their concerns about that in the words of Melinda Scott of United Textile workers the NWPP quote does not know what it is to work ten or twelve hours a day in a factory. So they do not know what it means to lose an eight hour day or a nine hour day law the working women do conversely a lot of members of the NWPP were pretty affluent. Highly educated women most of them were white. Many either worked in more prestigious fields or didn't need to work at all Alice. Paul was the daughter of a wealthy businessman who had a bachelor's degree from Swarthmore College. She had a masters degree from. What's now Columbia University and a PhD? From the University of Pennsylvania Crystal Eastman was the daughter of two ministers and she'd gotten degrees from Vassar and Columbia before getting a law degree from the New York University Diversity Law School in the view of the WPA and other supporters of the modern amendment. These protectionary laws. Were not really protecting women. They were forcing women to stay in roles roles where they had to have a man support to survive. Women were kept out of more lucrative work if it was perceived as dangerous. They couldn't advance in the workplace because of the restrictions restrictions on their shifts and hours and the very idea that women needed protection through these kinds of laws. Reinforce the idea that women were not as capable as men. Although no labor organizations were a big part of the opposition to the Motte Amendment Women's legal protections also went beyond the workplace. Most states had laws on the book that required a husband and father specifically to provide for his wife and children women but not men were entitled to alimony after a divorce and there were also concerns about what this amendment could mean for men that if employers couldn't pay women less they would have to pay men less in order to make things equal. Here's here's how in one thousand nine hundred thousand four pamphlet outlining arguments for and against the amendment summed. All of this up arguments for the amendment were written by Alice. Paul who wrote that. The amendment would be more inclusive more permanent and more dignified than individual state legislation. On this subject. She wrote quote the amendment will win for all women mm equal control of their children. Equal control of their property equal control of their earnings equal right to make contracts equal citizenship rights equal equal inheritance rights equal control of national state and local government equal opportunities in schools and universities equal opportunities in government service equal opportunities in professions and industries equal pay for equal work arguments against the amendment in. This brochure came from Benjamin Jamin Luring Young of the Massachusetts House of Representatives. He noted that there were states that did need work in the area of women's rights but he objected to the equal rights amendment becoming the Supreme Law of the land quote under the law in Massachusetts. Women here have many rights. Not accorded some in the amendment would destroy these rights it would level level down as well as level up the legal obligation of the husband to support the wife. would-be nullified in the criminal statutes divorce laws based upon this right to support would no longer be enforced. Our law does not contain any reciprocal provision compelling the wife to support the husband. Such rights rates and obligations must be made identical under the theory of equal rights or they cease to exist young went on to detail many of the other protections that we've already mentioned before continuing continuing quote each woman as a potential mother must be safeguarded against overstrain and not regarded merely as an economic unit more generally he argued viewed. The amendment would raise thousands of difficult legal questions in every state which would completely overwhelmed the legal system. I like how his statement objects checks to the idea of regarding women merely as an economic unit but really doesn't have a problem regarding women as potential mothers and having that so you like the definition of the status. That's because the he was making the case. That motherhood was more valuable now choice. That a dude is making Their problems yeah so anyway aside from this debate about whether the amendment would really make things better for women there was also another threat to the discussion among people who oppose the amendment. And that was that the fight for women's suffrage was not really over yet yet. Although the nineteenth amendment had not made any distinctions based on race in practice many states had implemented discriminatory voting laws that made it far more difficult for for people of color to register to vote and to exercise their right to vote especially in the south. Black women were still largely disenfranchised and the same was true of Hispanic women in the West and Southwest Asian immigrants were not permitted to become citizens and consequently could not vote. The connections between indigenous citizenship ship and tribal sovereignty are complicated but when the nineteenth amendment was ratified many indigenous women were not considered. US citizens and didn't have the right to vote either her so many women of color felt like it wasn't yet time for the women's movement to turn its attention to another issue rather than making sure all women could access their right to vote. After that first introduction in Nineteen twenty-three the Motte amendment was reintroduced that every legislative session for the most part it it did not make it out of committee and it was not actually voted on for the next two decades in general trade unions including the United Automobile workers and and the International Ladies Garment Workers Union opposed or refuse to endorse the bill. So do the National Consumers League the National Council of Jewish women and the National Council Ansell of Negro women are among others meanwhile professional associations of Women Dentists Lawyers Business Professionals and others endorsed the amendment and then in nineteen thirty eight President Franklin D Roosevelt signed the Fair Labor Standards Act into law. This legislation grew out of the Great Depression and the new deal. It was much smaller in scope than it is today but it established a minimum wage overtime pay as well as banning child labour in industries that practiced interstate interstate commerce at this point opposition to the Mont Amendment in organized labor started to wane as the types of workplace protections that had been applied only two women men were now at least starting to be applied to everyone. Yeah the first version of the fair Labor Standards Act only applied to something like a fifth of all workers but it was still like a starting point in nineteen forty. The Republican Party's platform included. This quote we favour submission by Congress to the states of an amendment to the the constitution providing for equal rights for men and women. The Democratic Party followed suit in one thousand nine hundred eighty four. With the addition of quote we recommend to Congress the submission sonoma constitutional amendment on equal rights for women. Both parties had some kind of statement supporting an amendment for equal rights regardless of sex or specifically equal rights it's for women in their platforms for the next few decades. Also in the forty s President Harry. Truman became the first of seven consecutive presidents to endorse the idea. A of an equal rights amendment in nineteen forty-three the Mont Amendment was revised to reflect language of other existing constitutional amendments now known as the Alice List Paul Amendment it read quote equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of sex for for the first time. The Alice Parliament came to a vote but failed in nineteen forty six. There was another attempt to pass it in. Nineteen fifty with various. Riders is being added on that. We're supposed to exempt the protective laws that we talked about That protected women in the workplace. And we're still on the books but that effort also failed but the amendment kept being introduced year after year. Things shifted once again in the nineteen sixties and. We are going to get into that after we pause for a sponsor break. Hey Chuck I've got some mixed emotions going on right now. Oh what's that it's ecstatic and enthusiastic about the rolling doing stones no filter to a returning to North America. That's right there returning for a fifteen city stadium tour taking off in May eighth and San Diego also going to be in Vancouver Uncover Minneapolis. Nashville Austin Dallas Buffalo Detroit Louisville Cleveland Pittsburgh Saint Louis Charlotte Tampa and Atlanta. Beautiful Man. If you didn't hear city well there is such a thing as a road trip. That's right you should road trip to see the stones and they're still at it. They are still great they are still bringing it. They are still the greatest live rock and roll band in the world. Yep so rolling in some tickets and VIP package is go on sale. Friday February fourteenth. Sounds like a pretty good Valentine's Day president. If you ask me and for all show in ticket info go to Rolling Rolling Stones Dot Com nuff said that tried but there's wild horses back in the pen and started up Here's the thing saving money with. GEICO is almost better than playing pickup basketball. Because there's always that guy who joins your game. He never passes the rock. He constantly bricks threes and who completely accu and then put his hands up and say no foul no foul with gyco. It's easy to switch and save on car insurance. No need to fake. An ankle sprain because you're absolutely exhausted so switch and save with GYCO. It's almost better in sports. Between the first introduction of the amendment and in the nineteen sixties the United States had been through two world wars and the Great Depression throughout that there had been ongoing shifts in what was considered acceptable for women women then in one thousand nine sixty three President John F. Kennedy signed the Equal Pay Act nineteen sixty three that was an amendment to the fair Labor Standards Act and it made L.. Legal to pay men and women different wages if their jobs had quote equal skill effort and responsibility and which are performed under similar working in conditions in one thousand nine sixty four president Lyndon Baines Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act into law it outlawed racial segregation and businesses like restaurants and movie theaters. And it also outlawed employment discrimination due to race color religion sex or national origin. Ironically opponents to the act had it added sex to that list with the hopes that it would cause it to fail combined with the Fair Labor Standards Act these two pieces of legislation largely removed Labor organizers objections Kim's to the equal rights amendment dead either gave everybody the same protections or at already made the protections they were trying to keep illegal like that was done now at about the same time. The Women's Liberation Movement was growing in the United States in nineteen sixty three betty. Friedan published her best selling book the Feminine Mystique and in one thousand nine hundred eighty six. She became one of the Co founders of the National Organization for women or now now and others in the Women's Liberation Movement started advocating advocating for the passage of the equal rights amendment which was still being introduced in Congress every session then representative Martha Griffiths. A Democrat from Michigan finally finally broke the ongoing cycle of the equal rights amendments introduction and getting stuck in committee. She filed a discharge petition which is a way of forcing a stalled bill out of committee and onto the House floor for debate and voting. It's not used very often because it requires someone together signatures from two hundred. Eighteen of the four hundred hundred thirty five members of the House of Representatives. Griffiths did this. In nineteen seventy. The house debated and passed the Equal Rights Amendment on August tenth. Nineteen seventy seventy but this time the amendment did not make it out of the Senate. Senators wanted to add some kind of a clause that would exempt women from the military draft and the Scott bogged doc down in committee again so griffis reintroduced the amendment again in the next session. It passed the House on October twelfth. Nineteen seventy-one with a vote of three hundred and fifty four to twenty three and the Senate on March Twenty Second Nineteen seventy two with a vote of eighty four to eight. It read section one equality have rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of sex section to the Congress shall have the power to enforce enforced by appropriate legislation. The provisions of this article and section three. This amendment shall take effect two years. After the date of Ratification Congress gave the states seven years to ratify the bill. Hawaii was the first to do it on March twenty second of Nineteen seventy-two within nine months. It's twenty two of the required thirty eight states had ratified the amendment in one thousand. Nine hundred seventy three the American Federation of Labor and Congress of industrial organizations or AFL CIO endorsed it by the end of nineteen seventy four. Thirty three states had ratified the amendment with only five left to go according to Gallup polls about three quarters of Americans supported the amendment so with just five states and five years left. It seemed like a sure thing. However a vocal backlash against the amendment had been developing which was tied in to an overall conservative movement in the United in states? Some of the opposition to the amendment was connected to abortion rights in one thousand nine hundred ninety three. The Supreme Court had issued its decision in Roe versus Wade saying that the Fourteenth Amendment's due process clause included a fundamental right to privacy. And that the right to privacy extended to the decision to terminate a pregnancy opponents worried that the equal rights amendment could expand access to abortion and make it impossible for the court to overturn Roe versus Wade in the future opponents Conan's to the era also worried that it would force women to register for the draft and serve in combat something that was very high people's minds given the United States involvement in the war in Vietnam much but not all of the opposition to the equal rights amendment came from religious groups members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. We're incredibly active and campaigning against the amendment. At the time roughly half of church members lived in just three states. Those were Utah Nevada. And I'd Aho Idaho had already ratified the amendment. By the time the church took a public stance on the amendment but voted to repeal its ratification afterward Utah and Nevada did not ratify the amendment. There were also about twenty six thousand church members. Living in Virginia mostly in the suburbs was of Washington. DC and they heavily lobbied their legislators Virginia also did not ratify the amendment before the deadline as had been the case in the earlier life of the equal equal rights amendment the most visible faces on both sides were relatively affluent white women in terms of the opposition that face was Phyllis schlafly conservative Roman Catholic from Illinois who started a campaign called stop. Era In nineteen seventy two that stood for stop taking our privileges equal rights rights amendment. She later founded the conservative interest. Group Eagle Forum schlafly described the. IRA IS ANTI family. And as something that would force women men into co Ed situations when they didn't want to be. She described this way quote. What I am defending is the real rights of women? A woman should have have the right to be in the home as a wife and mother. The Stop Era Campaign was incredibly strategic. Flea understood that she didn't really need to sway the entirety hierarchy of public opinion against the IRA and she didn't Gallup poll showed that more than half of respondents were in favour of the IRA throughout the ratification period. In the mid to late seventies this included people who describe themselves as housewives and conservatives instead schlafly focused on getting just enough legislators leaders to either vote against ratification or to stall the vote until after the deadline in states that had not yet ratified to do this. She and other activists lobbied lobbied legislators directly they went to state capitals wearing dresses and aprons and giving legislators homemade bread with slogans like preserve us from a congressional jam vote against the Er a sham or from the bread maker to the breadwinner they also stoked fears of what could happen if the was passed in addition to the idea of restricted abortions and women being drafted there was same sex marriage and the idea that the government would force the Catholic Church to allow women to be priests and there was a lot of talk about how the era was going to lead to Unisex bathrooms which was summed up as the potty problem in one thousand nine hundred ninety six realizing that schlafly campaign was very effective. Republican Ella McMillan Democrat. Liz Carpenter formed E. R. America Casa. That's your A.. And then America minus the initial a to try to counteract. It now was still fighting for ratification as well including organizing a boycott of the non ratifying states in nineteen seventy seven. The National Women's conference was held in Houston Texas. This was a congressionally funded conference that was attended ended by more than one hundred thirty thousand people including two thousand state delegates with a goal of formulating a plan to move the nation toward gender equality that that plan would then be presented to Congress and the president delegates created a plan of action that had twenty six planks. Some of them were child. Abuse Prevention engine. low-cost childcare enforcement of the Equal Credit Opportunity Act support for ROE versus Wade legislation to end discrimination based on sexual preference to use the language of the plank. At the time and ratification of the Yarra. Schlafly held a counter rally in. Houston that she. He described as pro family at the same time that rally issued its own resolution against lesbian rights abortion rights and the IRA. At this point. The ratification edification process had completely stalled on March. Ninth Nineteen Seventy Eight. Congress passed a three year extension of the deadline for ratification on March. Twenty Second Nineteen seventy-nine. Phyllis schlafly through a gala to celebrate the expiration of the original deadline in nineteen eighty the Republican party drops support for ratification of the equal rights amendment from its party platform. Ronald Reagan included his opposition to the IRA is part of his presidential campaign and and became the first president since Truman who oppose it support for the era among the general public reached its lowest point during that election year. Dropping bounce of fifty two percent in favor twenty-eight opposed and almost twenty percent. I don't know support among conservatives religious fundamentalists interests and housewives dropped below fifty percent for the first time during that nineteen eighty presidential campaign as well among states that had not ratified defied. The amendments support dropped down to forty eight point one percent in favor thirty nine point. Five percent opposed with the rest. I don't know when the second deadline approached the equal rights amendment was three states short of ratification in addition Nebraska. Tennessee Idaho Kentucky and South Dakota had all all voted to rescind or otherwise canceled their ratifications in response to the stop. Era Campaign the second deadlines ratify Equal Rights Amendment passed on June thirtieth of nineteen eighty two. Phyllis schlafly through another celebratory gala with the band playing. Ding Dong the witch is dead among other selections Republican Senator Jeremiah Denton of Alabama. Who was in attendance said quote? We have overcome one of the most powerful propaganda campaigns in the history of politics politics. Legislators started once again reintroducing the equal rights amendment at every congressional session as all this was going on the Supreme Liam Court had continued to issue rulings that interpreted the equal protection and due process clauses. That are in the Constitution and its amendments as relevant one was frontier versus Richardson in Nineteen seventy-three Sheeran Front Sierra was a lieutenant in the. US Air Force wives of military members were automatically granted at a housing allowance and medical care but husbands were not unless they were dependent on their wives frontier. Oh challenged this in. The Supreme Court found that the policy was unconstitutional unconstitutional three years later. The court issued a decision in Craig versus Boren Oklahoma Law at the time prohibited the sale of non intoxicating getting beer. That is under three point. Two percent alcohol. Two males under twenty one and females under eighteen. Curtis Craig who was male and between the ages of eighteen and twenty one challenge this law as unconstitutional and the Supreme Court agreed. The court issued a ruling that also called for intermediate scrutiny scrutiny. In questions of whether sex based discrimination was unconstitutional. This meant that laws that treated the sexist differently had to be substantially related related to an important government interest. And that's been the standard since they made that ruling back in the seventies. This is a lower standard of scrutiny than is required for race based discrimination but a higher standard than is required for some other things including discrimination based on age. Some of these court cases had the exact same Outcomes that the opponents of the IRA said the amendment would bring about for example in one thousand nine hundred seventy nine. The court heard the case of or verses or in which Lillian or or had sued her ex husband William for non payment of Alimony William or had challenged this as unconstitutional because Alabama where they lived required wired husbands to pay alimony but not wives. The court agreed ruling that quote classifications by gender must serve important governmental objectives in one thousand nine hundred ninety six. The court found Virginia. Military Institute's male only admissions policy unconstitutional in United States versus Virginia. And of course I in Obergefell versus hodges in two thousand fifteen. The Supreme Court decided that the Fourteenth Amendment's equal protection clause require states to license marriages between people. All of the same sex. The federal government was also continuing to pass laws that were related to equality regardless of sex during the ratification period for the Yarra ouray. This included title nine which is one of the educational amendments of Nineteen Seventy two which reads quote. No person in the United States shall on the basis of sex be excluded from participation in be denied the benefits of or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving leaving federal financial assistance in the nineteen nineties now and other organizations formulated the three state strategy which combined an effort to get three more states is to ratify the equal rights amendment with proposed legislation to remove the earlier deadline since then Nevada ratified the era on March twenty. Second twenty-seven team lean in Illinois ratified it on May thirtieth twenty eighteen and as we said at the top of the show. Virginia did so earlier this year. So that leaves some. I'm not entirely answered questions as of when we are recording this. Although a number of people will stridently insist that the questions are actually answered. And there's nothing in the constitution about whether a state can rescind its ratification of a constitutional amendment as five states voted to do with the we are a and it's not really totally clear whether it works if they vote to do that. Ohio and New Jersey tried to rescind their ratification of the fourteenth eighteen th amendment but they are still listed as ratifiers and the amendments official documentation. The Supreme Court decided that this was a political question for Congress Congress and not a matter for the courts back in nineteen thirty nine. There are also arguments about whether the deadline is really relevant. The Supreme Court has previously ruled that. It's not unconstitutional for Congress to set such a deadline. But it's also been noted that this deadline wasn't part of the amendment itself and it wouldn't be the first time time that an old constitutional amendment has been ratified and added to the Constitution. The twenty-seventh amendment adopted in Nineteen ninety-two reads quote no law. Aw varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and representatives shall take effect until an election of Representatives shall have intervened. It was part of the original Channel Bill of rights approved by Congress in seventeen eighty nine but it was not ratified until nineteen. ninety-two like the equal rights amendment. It didn't have a deadline. As part of the text itself. Congress has tried to avoid this problem with some other amendments by like having actually in there in the text there there are seven years or however many years to ratify the thing so as of this moment we are kind of in limbo with one side considering the matter closed because as the deadline passed and other side arguing that the deadline does not matter or proposing various legislation to change the deadline. The Department Department of Justice issued a memo on this matter on January. Sixth Twenty Twenty which began quote. Congress has constitutional authority to impose a deadline for ratifying trying a proposed constitutional amendment. It exercise the Sorority when proposing the equal rights amendment and because three fourths of the state legislatures did not ratify before the deadline line that Congress imposed the equal rights amendment has failed of adoption and is no longer pending before the state's accordingly if one or more state state legislatures to ratify the proposed amendment. It would not become part of the constitution and the archivist could not certify its adoption but on the other other hand the Attorneys General of Virginia Illinois in Nevada the last three states to ratify the amendment also filed suit to have it added to the Constitution on January thirty S. And we're recording this on February fourth. So Fred felt very new. There are also still a lot of unanswered third questions about what the era would mean in practice if it were to become the next constitutional amendment including things like whether it would apply to laws around things like physiology like breastfeeding or menstruation. Whether it would make government programs like Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women Infants and children children which is wick whether it would make those kinds of programs unconstitutional or whether the language on account of sex would mean that the amendment applies to Intersex non binary binary and transgender people where we are on the on the equal rights amendment. It's one of those things that really fascinates me because as this has dragged doubt for a hundred years the world has changed so much and it has changed some to reflect that but as you said right there at the conclusion there's a whole all other raft of elements that need to be addressed and considered. And it's it's like. The slowness has made this trickier trickier than it would have been safe. Fifty years ago right I think if it had been ratified back in the seventies it would have gone through a similar trajectory to the fourteenth amendment. Where probably the Supreme Court back in the seventies would have heard cases that were about Discrimination Jn that was not specifically against women or men but was against us like an intersex person or a person. I'm not saying that transplant center. Neither men or women but like the courts I think would have moved from like a binary this is about men and women reading of the law a reading of the amendment like into a more broad reading of the amendment similarly to how the fourteenth amendment from being two classes black and white to applying tall their stuff. Jeff Yeah but like now that it has been fifty something years almost since it was sent to the states for ratification and it was not ratified during that time now those questions are surrounding it even though like it has actually been added to the Constitution at this point. Yeah also oh it. It's a story that frustrates me. I bet because like the a bit is an understatement. Because it passed Congress Congress with overwhelming majorities and then it was clearly on tracks you pass among the states and had among the general population. The majority already or at least a plurality in favor of it through all that time and then got derailed by what was clearly like a very vocal local minority opposition to it anyway. We'll probably talk more about that. Behind the scenes yeah Do you have listener mail for us. In the meantime this is from Megan and Megan wrote after our behind the scenes episode on learn elegant and the Parthenon Marbles in which I expressed the number number of opinions and was a little worried about whether there's opinions we're going to garner of angry e mail. Megan did not send angry. Angry emailed us to be totally upfront about that. Meghan says I do have a lot of opinions and certainly share yours but the thing that struck me was the comment about museums. Not Taking into consideration the cultures items are being displayed. I work in the arts for an orchestra and we've started learning and adopting the practices of of by four all to boil it down very simply. It's a movement whose focus is to help organizations work within the communities they are trying to attract the founder worked in a museum that had for years ears held a day of the dead event in a community with a strong Latino presence but only white people attended the event in question. Now it is something driven and involving the Latino eighteen o community because the museum started talking to people instead of throwing the event for them expecting them to show up. If you have a chance watch one founder. Nina Simon's talks thanks. Megan then sent link to a video. I have a feeling you will agree. With her. Point of view we have a lot of discussions in the or Kestrel world about appropriation and how whitewashed classical music history is the orchestra I work with is focusing on working with different communities to find out how we can collaborate and feel ownership in their local orchestra. A music is for everyone. Not just old white people. I could go on forever but I will stop myself now. I very much enjoy your podcast. Thank you for all your hard work putting these excellent episodes together. I didn't realize how much I enjoyed learning about history until I started listening to you all the Best Meghan Meghan this whole time. Meghan may say it. Megan I apologize if I got got it wrong. Megan also let us know that our facebook page had our old email address on it so I went to fix that. So thank you so much Meghan for this email video. Oh that this emailing the link to I only have had the chance to watch about the first twenty minutes of We don't have a great way on our website right now to share links. Thanks for things but if you Google Nina Simon of by four all it will take you to it really quickly and it is very interesting because she starts talking about coming into a museum. That was really really struggling and having to turn that around and having to figure out how to actually connect with the community that they were located in which is really super interesting. So thank you so much for this email. If you'd like to write to us about this or any other podcast or history podcast iheartradio dot com. And then we're all all over social media as history. That's where you'll find out facebook twitter pinterest and instagram. You can subscribe to our show on Apple podcast iheartradio APP anywhere else. You WanNa get popped out and listening stuffy missed in history classes the production the heart radio. How stuff works for more podcast for my heart radio? visit the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows this episode is brought to you by Katy keene from the creator of Riverdale comes a sparkling adventure in the big apple full of fashion drama and dreams colliding with real life. It's new series Katy keene Thursdays eight seven central on the CW or stream. Free on the W APP singer-songwriter Josie whore. Hey with his eye on Broadway it girl pepper and fashiony still legend to be Katie. In New York City of eight million therefore of a kind high style has a new name. Katy keene. The fashionable new series Thursdays at eight seven central on the CW or stream free anytime on the CW APP. twenty-seven club is a new podcast about famous musicians who died prematurely in sometimes mysteriously at the age of twenty seven. This podcast is hosted by me. Jake Brennan Creator Karen Host of the hit music and true crime. podcast disgrace that season one features twelve episodes in the life and death of Jimmy Hendrix. The Twenty seven club contains adult content ED explicit language. You can listen to the twenty seven club on the iheartradio APP Apple. PODCASTS and PODCASTS. Watch out for us.
Mon. 06/29 Reddit Bans r/The_Donald and The Facebook Ad Boycott, Explained
"Welcome to the tech name, right home for Monday June. Twenty ninth, Twenty Twenty, I'm Brian McCullough today I? Try to break down the almost hour by hour day by day time line of that whole facebook slash social media ad boycott situation. Apple might not include a charger in the IPHONE. Twelve bucks much less ear buds Amazon cuts back on wasted India, while India cuts off. tiktok completely in some news, you can use if you need to recover lost files and windows. Here's what you missed today in the world of Tech. This is another one of those things where this literally just broke so I'll tell you what I can now but. The headline here is that read? It has banned the sub reddit are slash the Donald as well as two hundred other communities today after updating its content policy to more explicitly ban hate speech, quoting the verge I have to admit that I've struggled with balancing my values as an American and around free speech and free expression with my values, and the company's values around common human decency read it. CEO Steve Huffman said in a call with reporters in a blog post that. That sites, the company's new rules Huffman said users of the are slash Donald set violated the site's policies for years. The site has no official connection to President Donald. Trump although he did do an ask me anything there. As a candidate in two thousand sixteen quote, the community has consistently hosted and voted more rule breaking content than average rule. One antagonized US and other communities rules to an eight, and it's mods have refused to meet our most basic stations Huffman said. New. Policy begins with a first rule that requires users to consider the human. It reads quote. Remember the human read. It is place for creating community and belonging not for attacking marginalized or vulnerable groups of people. Everyone has a right to use. Read it free of harassment, bullying and threats of violence, communities and people that incite violence or that promote hate based on identity or vulnerability will be banned and quote. Among the two thousand. Also banned today are the for the left-wing podcast Chapo Trap House, but only about two hundred of these other separatists band had more than ten daily users on average among the other newly verboten separates, and these are ones with significantly more than ten daily users on average are slash dark humor and memes slash consume product are slash dark joke, central are slash gender critical. Our slash comedown are slash I'm going to help for this to our slash. Wo Jack can are slash soya boys. So usually I get all pissed off when a major story breaks late on Friday right after I post the show. Because more often than not that means that by Monday, the story is sort of Old News, but in this case I'm sort of glad that we can get into this now because I can give you the full tick tock as the story has sort of evolved over the weekend. Remember all those companies that were either pausing. Their ads on social media generally on facebook and facebook properties specifically. Well you can add coca, Cola and starbucks to that list and actually a whole bunch of others, but really Coca Cola that's as big as you can get. coca-cola says it will be pausing all of its advertising on social media for a time. And actually think about it. starbucks is kind pretty huge on mobile to right so maybe starbucks could be more significant in terms of dollars and cents. facebook seemingly knew that this was coming because Friday afternoon into the evening that day it was like watching. A PR, crisis and Pierre Crisis Management unfold in real time because our by our. facebook just kept making announcement after announcement. I Mark Zuckerberg posted on his personal account to say that facebook would now label content that violates its rules. But that it nonetheless leaves up because thinks it's newsworthy and in the public interest. So labeling questionable content. which is of course, a major about face? Because facebook said it was never gonNa do this and also because. facebook in Sacramento made clear that this would specifically and explicitly applied politicians which facebook definitely said it would never do in fact, remember how twitter did this sort of labelling to post from President? Trump was only two weeks ago now mark Zuckerberg said in an interview that that was absolutely the wrong move. That facebook didn't believe in that, so facebook is now doing. Doing the thing that it sort of sub tweeted twitter for doing mere weeks ago and believe me Jack Dorsey noticed he tweeted a tweet from will or Ramos that said quote. This is news. Zuckerberg just announced. FACEBOOK will follow twitter inputting warning labels on post by public figures that violate its rules, but are deemed newsworthy enough to remain on the platform and quote. Then, after that. Word came down. That facebook would also ban adds that claim people from a specific race ethnicity, nationality, caste, gender, sexual orientation or immigration origin are a threat. To which I say and I know, I'm supposed to be covering this stuff every single day, but to which I say that sort of ad was allowed up until now. As terron WADA tweeted quote. It took an advertiser boycott for Mark Zuckerberg to decide to stop accepting money for ads that promote hate speech. What a disgraceful way to make decisions and quote! Yeah and then facebook also announced that for posts about voting. It will attach labels that will direct users to accurate and voting information on its new voter information center. Well, all of this has been spearheaded by the so called Hashtag stop hate for profit campaign. Let me. Turn to Reuters to tell you about this because right now. They've been targeting advertisers in the US, but they say starting this week. They're gonNA. Take this campaign global starting with Europe, quoting Reuters free press and commonsense along with civil rights groups color of change and the anti-defamation League launched the campaign, following the death of George Floyd and unarmed black man killed by Minneapolis police. The next frontier is global pressure the campaign. Campaign said in a statement, adding the campaign hopes to embolden regulators in Europe to take a harder stance on facebook, the European Commission in June and new guidelines for tech companies, including facebook to submit monthly reports on how they are handling. Corona virus misinformation. The global campaign will proceed as organizers continue to urge more US companies to participate Jessica Gonzales. Chief Executive of Free Press says she has contacted major US telecommunications and media. Media companies to ask them to join the campaign. Expanding the campaign outside the United States will take a bigger slice off of facebook advertising revenue, but is not likely to have a major financial impact Unilever for instance on Friday committed to pausing, it's US spending on facebook for the rest of the year that only accounts for about ten percent of its overall, estimated, two hundred and fifty million dollars. It spends on facebook advertising. Advertising annually according to Richard Greenfeld of light shed partners, immediate and tech research firm Steiner said they will urge global advertisers such as Unilever and Honda which have only committed to pausing us adds to pull their facebook ads globally annually, facebook generates seventy billion dollars in advertising sales, but only about a quarter of that comes from big companies, such as Unilever with the vast majority of its revenue derived from small businesses and quote. As Nancy Scola tweeted interesting aspect on the other side of the boycott is a marriage of old school. Civil Rights orbs with Gravitas like the NWPP and Internet activists, namely sleeping giants who figured out how to leverage social media to trigger corporate action. That's new and quote. But also note that so far. These boycotts have actually followed through on as that last quote from the peace said would only result in sort of a drop in the bucket. In terms of facebook revenue, facebook makes the vast majority of its money from the hundreds of thousands of smaller advertisers on its platform, according to CNN the top one hundred brands globally contribute only an estimated six percent of facebook's revenue, and also there's this quoting. CNN facebook is less susceptible to outside pressure. Then most businesses experts say it's led by a CEO Mark Zuckerberg. Complete voting control over the company and can't be removed by shareholders, and that could vastly complicate the campaign to hit facebook where it hurts. Quote Disney couldn't do this and apple couldn't do this. They're run by committee Martin said. If it was a company run by committee, they would have to react because the committee. The board of directors would be threatening to fire the CEO to protect revenue. That doesn't have to happen here and quote yeah indeed. Zach could just decide. You know what we don't need. The big brands there are of course plenty of examples of media entities that are too controversial sometimes or maybe to niche for major brands to spend a ton on regularly. Like Fox, news and CNBC come to mind as examples of each category, and both of those absolutely meant money. At the time of this writing facebook stock is down around ten percent between Friday and this morning's early training, and that's worth noticing, but also something that could be completely meaningless in a couple of trading sessions. In the source code newsletter this morning David Pierce makes the point that I have heard this weekend as well and I heard this from someone who would know these things. Let me quote David. One big domino left to fall proctor and gamble the biggest advertiser in America. My theory has always been that Mark Pritchard. Chief brand officer is actually the most influential person in tech from what I hear. These conversations are happening all over the company right now. My big question going forward. Where's all this ad money going to go? If not to facebook AD sales teams at Tiktok Youtube, Google and snap must be champing at the bit right now. Heck, maybe even qube will be a winner and quote. Squirrel that's going a bit far. But you know a funny thing does happen when you actually do have competition you have to you know. Make moves to be competitive snap and TIC TAC. Especially must be salivating. Maybe even youtube could strategically pivot to doing some hardcore virtue signaling with some sort of muscle behind it. And somewhere the instagram guys must be having their hundred thousand second thought you know, imagine if instagram was still independent, naughtily could instagram. Feel good social alternative platform that had already kind of is, but it could now be the brand safe space that it sort of was always designed to be as well. The facebook acquisition of instagram continues to be one of the big. What ifs and all of well social history at this point? Not just tech and business history. The ride home is sponsored by Medal Lab Medal APPs slogan is we make interfaces for over a decade medal APP is help. Some of the world's top companies and entrepreneurs make products that millions of people use every day. You might not realize it, but you probably use. The product Meta lab had a hand in designing today. Things like slack coin based Facebook Messenger Oculus coober and plenty more fact. I'm going to be telling you about some of Meta labs. Greatest designed hits all this week. Mental lab helps everyone from tiny startups to fortune. Fortune! Five hundred companies built products that are simple, intuitive, beautiful and downright delightful. They've launched two hundred and five products and counting have helped several Unicorn companies find blockbuster success in are known as the best in the design business metal wants to bring their unique design philosophy to your project. 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Read Setting, and your pasta is reheated without being newt did I mention to has a whole bunch of recipes inside the APP for you to do on your own everything from Bacon baked cod bakes crabcakes to baked potatoes to Pumpkin. Pie Get Vala. Then get a versatile new edition to your kitchen, and you're cooking utility belt. Check it out now at Tavola Dot, com slash ride 'cause listening to this show, get an exclusive one hundred and fifty dollars off Tavola dot com slash ride. We Trust Mindy quo. Don't we to usually get his apple scoops correct well I. Don't know how you feel about this one in a recent report, quo says that apple will not only not include ear buds in the box. When you buy a new iphone twelve, it might not even include a charger. But at the same time it will introduce a twenty watt power adapter to be sold separately quoting nine to five Mac quo says that apple wants to keep selling the iphone twelve at a similar price to the iphone eleven and removing inbox accessories will offset the cost of the five G. networking components. This will presumably reduce the size of the iphone packaging, considerably as well helping lower apples, freight costs and be better for the environment. It's not clear if the lightening cable is still included. For? To Apple's other products series three Apple Watch includes the magnetic cable, but does not come with the wall plug slash power adapter. Quo says that the previously pictured twenty powered after is legitimate, but will not come with the iphone twelve. Instead it will be sold separately as an optional purchase. The analysts believes apple is discontinuing both the current five Watt and eighteen watt chargers in favor of the new 20-watt model for Apple's upcoming ipad line consisting of a new ten point eight inch ipad later this year and eight and a half inch ipad many in the first half of two thousand twenty one quo, thanks, apple will continue to bundle the power adapter with those and quote. So my take is not even including a charger is pretty bold. I mean I assume most of us have a bunch of chargers lying around and a lot of us now have those Chea- wireless chargers strategically around our house, but. You still would have the absurd situation of in theory someone buying a product that they can only use until the battery runs out, and then they have to wait for the charter that they were forced to order separately to arrive. There was a lot of chatter over the weekend about apple, nickel and diming people over accessories. Though I would say is a charter, really an accessory. Not An accessory, if you need it to operate the device, but also at the same time, lots of folks also tweeting about how this is a good move because of how much it would cut down on e-waste. Speaking of waste waste, not just e-waste smallish sort of story here but interesting. Amazon says it has eliminated all single use plastic in its packaging across more than fifty fulfillment centers in India, quoting tech crunch, the American ECOMMERCE group said it had replaced packaging materials, such as bubble wrap with paper cushions, and was also using one hundred percent plastic free biodegradable paper tapes, all of Amazon's fifty plus fulfilment centers in India one of its key overseas. Overseas markets are complying with the new guidelines. The company said Flip. Cart, which had made a similar pledge last year, said last month that its reliance on single use plastic across its supply chain had dropped by fifty percent last year. The Walmart Marketplace said it intended to move entirely to recycle plastic consumption in its supply chain by March two thousand, twenty one. Amazon's announcement, Monday follows India. Prime Minister Narendra Modi's directive last year when he urged Indians to put an end to usage of single use plastic by twenty twenty and quote. Question is I. Guess how quickly could or can Amazon roll this out globally? And speaking of India remember not too long ago I did a story about the border clashes between India and China. And how the resulting rise in nationalism was affecting, use an adoption of Chinese made apps inside of India. There was even an APP that was subsequently removed from the play store that would remove Chinese made apps from your phone for you. Yeah, well! The Indian government announced that it is banning fifty nine Chinese developed APPS. Including tiktok including, we chat including Wego May to and clash of Kings, quoting India today government press release, announcing the ban stated quote, the Ministry of Information Technology invoking its power under section, sixty, nine, a of the information. Technology Act read with the relevant provisions of the Information Technology Blah Blah. Blah Blah. Blah rules two thousand nine, and in view of the nature of threats has decided to block fifty nine APPs since in view of information available, they are engaged in activities, which is prejudicial to sovereignty and integrity of India Defense of India security of state and public order. The press release further said that the Ministry of Information Technology has received quote, many representations, raising concerns from citizens, regarding security of data and risk to privacy relating to operation of certain APPS and quote it for the says the move to ban these Chinese APPS will quote safeguard the interests of Indian mobile and Internet users. The decision is a targeted moved to ensure safety and sovereignty of Indian cyberspace. It said and quote. So I guess the headline here. Is that India? Bands Tiktok, which is a pretty big deal. which also remember that story from last week about Tiktok spying on your clipboard with every character you type. Finally today from the news, you can use right away file. Microsoft has released a new file recovery tool. That will let you retrieve deleted documents if you're a windows user. Here's how and why to use it. From Tom Warren in the verge windows file. Recovery is a command line APP that will recover a variety of files and documents from local hard drives usb drives, and even SD cards from cameras recovery of files on cloud storage or network file shares is not supported though like any file recovery tool you'll need to. To use it as soon as possible on deleted files to ensure, they haven't been overwritten. You'll be able to use Microsoft's new tool to recover. MP, three files before Videos PDF documents, J. peg images and typical word excel and powerpoint documents Microsoft's file recovery tool has a default mode that's designed primarily for ntfs file systems. It will recover files from corrupt the disc or after you've formatted a disk. A second signature mode will likely be the more popular option allowing users to recover specific file types across fat X. Fat and. File Systems. The signature mode may also take longer to retrieve files and quote. Windows file. Recovery is a free tool available right now from the Microsoft website. That is offer today I. Hope Y'all had a good weekend. ps On that weekend bonus episode with Rene Ritchie. We recorded video as a further experiment with our whole youtube experiment so. The Youtube version of that episode is just that the raw video of our chat when I do these going forward. I think I'm going to set up a whole backdrop, and you know actually sit up with good posture and stuff like that, but hey, if you wanted to see what my messy office looks like or check out the status of my quarantine haircut, there you go, youtube channel can be found by searching tech name podcast on Youtube. If you haven't subscribed by the way to the general right, not do that while you're there. Talk to you tomorrow.
"Under thorough review, starting the process accepting inputs. And they started with saying in light of recent events, the statement here from washing today all but announcing. That, they will change the team name after decades of resistance and refusal Daniel Snyder concedes. But then again he added the statement with the name old and underlined. And Ron Rivera Coach said they'll continue the mission to honor native Americans and military. Kevin Blackstone sold a bill clash. Thanks for being here today Kevin I'm I'm very happy. You're here today. Native Washingtonian and you follow this teenager entire life. How did you read that statement? Just about his disingenuous as a statement that the team could absolutely make. I'll make some let some other people point out some obvious flaws in that statement, but let me just point out one that was struck me as really tone, deaf and paternalistic, and that is affected in the opening paragraph the team talks about who they're going to talk to about their nickname and the one group of people that they don't mention our native American folk that. That is absolutely disgusting, and then secondly from the new coaches standpoint Ron Rivera, who by the way just a couple of days ago, said that this wasn't the time and the he's a different generation, and we can talk about this other time all of a sudden now. It's a personal interest to him. And, so he makes a statement and then somehow. Talks about native Americans, being honored in the military in the same sentence who brought up the military? What does the military have to do with this? Actually? If you're gonNA talk about the history of native Americans in this country on this continent and the military, you're going to be talking about the militias that issued the bounties for scalps which became known in fact as Redskins. Thank you for that. Another question I have for you here is. We've been doing this story on this show for ten years fifteen years I was doing it up. With Kornheiser and Wilbon of course writers for The Washington Post Four fifteen twenty years. Do you remember the first time you you wrote it up? Or the first time you covered it sure probably was in the late nineteen ninety s after I'd written a column about Midland. Lee High School and out in West Texas and black folks and nwpp out there were complaining about having their sons and daughters participate in the athletic program. They're dressed up in confederate grace, and under all this iconography from from the confederacy. And, that was the first time. I made a connection between that issue and the issue. The native folk had raised about. The of this team and that's when I really became sensitized to started to to write about it. And whether you feel, it reached a tipping point, mean you could say in the last twenty four hours, because the Nope, the noble cause of those private equity fund managers and investors were the one that pushed over the top, but when you reach tipping point well first we re certificate point from me. Two twenty fourteen, when the trademark ruling came down yet again against his team, and that's when I started. To work on a documentary film, which is now called imagining the Indian Film Dot. COM people can go to that website. And now it's at that tipping point again, but never before as it been this close to the precipice, and knowing for sure that it is going over the cliff. Thank you for that cabinet. We'll bring it bill de here Phil. How did you read the statement this? Yeah, well, the bigger picture is the name's GonNa get changed now. We know it's going to get changed hail to finally doing the right thing, but shame on them for taking so long Snyder's had a lot of years to do this he could do you didn't do it Federal Express at a lot of years to do this. They didn't do it. Nobody did anything about eighty seven years of this thing. I would have come up my most recent Sitcom on. This was eleven years ago. People have been screaming about this. With more resonance and me for many many more years, and they've done nothing. It just sat there like this so shame on taking solar, and then shame on Snyder where he's obviously being dragged kicking and screaming into this four times. The name of the team was used in that press in that statement. They use four times including as you said twenty boldfaced. That's shameful. Today statement. After all this time to say thorough review, it almost sounds like they should be flagged for delay of shame I mean. This has been a longtime comics and bill plastic. You wrote about Kevin Blackstone wrote about it. Tony Kornheiser Christine Brennan Mike Wise. This has been going on forever and remember Daniel Snyder had said it's not going to happen I'm not changing the name, but what happens here money talks, and when these big corporations put pressure on him. Now it's going to change. It's been a long time coming and I know there'll be. Some fans will be upset, but let's let's remember here. Everything, that we've taken away from native Americans, how about we give them the dignity to control their own likeness and image? How about something like that? Right you did mention how fans will. We'll go over this before we sat down. You said something that was very interesting to me. About fans wearing the shirt from this team now with the Future Team Jersey. Logo out there and whether they would be allowed into the stadium. How do you even put toothpaste back in the tube in that way Kevin? Let me ask you this. Do you think they'll lose fans over this? Absolutely not, there's no history. In terms of sports, franchises of be the professional college or high school losing fans in in any significant numbers. Because, they changed a nickname. That was racist or some other other way offensive, so no, they're not gonNA lose significant fans over this. Rank I solely ever read on that. I don't think they will either. I think sometimes will be upset. It will be interesting to see because let's remember now. The NFL and the team have been encouraging people to buy. Jerseys hats and things like that now they're not going to be allowed in the stadium I would have a funny feeling that they'll still be a lot of the fans that will wear some of the old shirts, hats and jackets when they walk into the stadium. I don't know what's going to happen. When they walk in, I would think that there'll be allowed to wear to wear that stuff inside the stadium. There's no time line on this bill. Paschke but I mean once you make the assessment that it is now offensive to you I mean it's gotta be now right so there have to come up with a new team named new new logo or uniform in the next month before the preseason starts a sensibly and the season. I everybody's having some fun with some team names. But how do you even begin to approach that bill will I've got an obvious team name, but I I want to say now that they've done this. They need to get rid of the Tomahawk Chop. NFL got rid. You're going to get rid of the name. Get rid of the action. The racist action done at the Super Bowl last year. Donning Kansas City done in the Atlanta. Get rid of the Tomahawk Chop this far as the name for the Redskins. Sorry I gotTa hate using that name. As far as the name for the for the team I, think you have to get rid of all association with anything, the previous name calling the hogs. That's what they're known as anyway. Call him the ball. You know it's interesting you know within the last twenty years. It's been about eighty high schools around the country that were named Redskins now. It's down to about twenty. The redskins used to use that the football team did as an example of hey. Look other. Public institutions are using it. So why can't we have a funny feeling? When you listen around various quote? I, I could see something like warriors, which is an obvious when it may even the Washington Americans maybe a little dig at the Dallas Cowboys. You could become America's team. Wow, this warrior! I mean warriors know-how. Being being attached after after what we just went through and less to Kevin Blackstone. I don't have any idea about who they could be called. I went to see the Washington federals. They're horrible. Two years in the USA fell in the early eighties. Maybe. That nickname is still out there, but the just the important thing is to get away from naming. After a people as far away as fuck no more. Thoughts on this guy's back in two minutes sticking with washing these say Howard basketball. Gets the number off to me in the country. I got this. Is presented by Corona Extra Find Your beach part of happy up. Now know that Napa Auto. PARTS STORES NAPA Auto Care Centers get a twenty five dollars prepaid. Visa Card when you get any nap, automotive battery, it's the best deal for some of the best batteries from some of the best car people around, but we might be a little partial any who take up any nap, automotive battery and Save Twenty Five Bucks. Do It yourself or have done for you. That's NAPA know how know how that. PARTICIPATING NAPA AUTO PARTS STORES AND NAPA AUTO CARE centers while supplies. Last offer ends eight, thirty, one twenty. Hello this is your apartment. I need some favors from you. Your cat keeps rubbing against the kitchen island and I can't return the favor. Can you give extra pets for me after that? Could you bundle your renters and car insurance with GEICO? We could save money and it's easy to do online and one last thing. Could you leave the TV on during the day I? Need to catch up on my soaps. For Bundling made easy, go to GEICO DOT COM today. The number sixteen player in college basketball recruitment monster. Maker choosing, Howard over UCLA KENTUCKY MEMPHIS said on. July now, south Sudan. Day, and said this. I need to make the HCC movement real so that others will follow. Kevin Blackstone. How real is this? Do you think others will follow? Unfortunately for Hvac you fans. I think this is a a one off I don't think you'll be there very long, but it's a great story. The problem is it doesn't solve the problems college athletics. Money is the television contract that follows the power five. Conference the conferences, those television dollar's GonNa go to Howard. Glued Swag, if if top player START GOING THERE I! Don't think so until that is solved. This to me is just. Right Guy Sola Tony. The most prominent HP alum currently in the NBA is Robert. Covington the last HPC. All Star was Ben. Wallace, who went to Virginia Union. That's Charles Oakley's old school I agree. With Kevin I think it's a one off and I think for Kenny Blakeney the head coach I think in the long run. It's going to help him. Because I think other a these are going to say look he's. He's recruiting big time players. A lot of kids are still going to want to go to the schools where they're on tv all the time where they have NBA like the. Suffer Kenny. Blakely I think in the long run. It's going to help him. Maker says I needed to do this. The movement real and others would follow and Bill Paschke he's choosing Howard over UCLA. Do you think others will follow? Yes, I think others will follow I, think gets the bigger deal than you are making it out to be I think he's empowering himself and it's interesting how ucla was a school. We all thought he was going to go to ucla recently as a group of very vocal. A caucus of student athletes who have complained about treatment from the football coach Chip Kelly. The actually thirty of them signed a letter begging school for a independent. Medical consultant with with with the Kobe cocoon back with immediate coronavirus. Yeah, so this is this is. This is a big deal. This is a statement saying I'm going around. It'd be more comfortable and I. Think others will follow. You're talking on the football side of it. The football program, which is interesting thing as well recruits choose h. Football, schools over power five. The history of NFL players who went to HBO, is much greater rambling and the NBA. There was a time when when there was this many hall of papers from HP. Says as not we'll move on or sell to. Oklahoma State's findings head coach Mike Gundy. Relationships with players were lacking not racist. That's how the school founded looking Oklahoma state. They want my gun to be the coach. That's what they found that I. do think for him. You know if you're a coach. Especially on the college level, you need to build relationships with your players. Not everyone's going to be Nick Sabin, you're the king, and that's how you rule it I think Mike. Gundy needs to do a better job. I think that's what the finding. Built slash. Find kind of a sham. It's an internal investigation. The Athletic Director and deputy athletic director did it. They essentially work for Mike Gundy, so of course they're gonNA. Find This I. Think it's it's. It is compelling to say that he needs better relationships with his athletes. I think athletes needed look at his history before they go to that school. Blackstone. Yeah absolutely I mean you look at the trouble Hubbard situation that unfolded there. In the fact that took Mike gundy times to come around to finally apologizing for wearing a t shirt that was offensive to those folks on that campus. Who might be in the black lives matter movement or support. I think there are some smoke. Around my Gundy and Turner report does not absolve him of wrong. Vo clashed you. Call it a sham. Are you saying the school couldn't do any investigations? All no I just think they need to have an independent expert. Look at this. You? Can't be unbiased when the people actually Gundy's the highest paid employee there. They're all working for him. They'll those will be your last words for the day. How scores suggests that it's a Solo Kevin. Blackstone showed at ice stone next. Presented by Verona extra fine your feet. GEICO gets you access to licensed agents. Twenty four seven, which means that Geico is always there for you. If only everyone was always there for you, like your mom when you fill out really really important paperwork on the first day of a new job name, check birthday. She'll securities thing. Hey, mom, what aid my social security number mom, mom. Okay let's. Zero, zero one seven Gem Hashtag done gyco always there for you with savings and twenty four seven access to licensed agents. SIRIUSXM wants to make your summer drives sound and feel even better right now. Our exclusive entertainment is on free in your car, July sex, and all you have to do is listen. Enjoy over one hundred channels including music, add free plus sports comedy, Talk And news listen in your car plus three on your phone and at home. Some summer drives never sounded so free. Go to Sirius Xm dot. COM SLASH LISTEN ESPN to learn more. A second. In Chicago for Tepeto didn't make the first, bubble. Are To bubbles better than one fred got. A double bubble is a bad idea. Why why would you do something like that? Led the team through spring players scrimmage among themselves as opposed to having everyone fly to Chicago by the way the Golden State were is going to be part of it. You think Steph Curry Klay Thompson draymond green is showing up come up. And what are they playing for? What are they playing for? Maybe the number one draft pick you know and we continue to pretend like the season's going to warn unbelievable another bubble. Let's have this whole thing by Bazooka, Bubblegum, company. You got jokes. He pages flew into that. Blacks chair just for a second. I'll split the point. We'll move on. Black. Don't tell that to the players because the. Chances are out buck for eighty three percent I talked about this yesterday. That's. Eighty percent the Lakers, thirteen clippers to raptors one, but about the Lakers Anthony Davis says the law rest helps them and makes their chances higher. I think every single player has said that we have better chance. KB, can everyone have a better chance? Oh, sure everybody can have a better chance, but let's not forget Anthony Davis had shoulder problems. So that's rested now we always talk about. We talked about load management and Lebron last in the season before he got hammered closed. Shut by covert so maybe. I'm rested doesn't seem to be helping me I. think it was going to help Anthony Davis he's. Not going to have to play. A lot of pressure on him. He's only played nine career playoff games a lot of pressure and Anthony Davis. He's lucky. He wrote Game Celebrity Games. A road gave. A slight at the recent scoring. You've been having on this show. I take facetime for guys. All your well rested. How about that Baseball might try to was the best player in the game. Talk Today said he doesn't know if he's going to be part of the restart of the season, but there is some good news here. One player that will be is Cleveland Indians pitcher Carlos Carrasco thirteen months ago, was diagnosed with leukemia came back late last season to play says that he's ready to go. which is great news for Carlos Carrasco? Stan. Winston's Martine and EFI Turrell. Dot Back. We'll see Monday. 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Into an American Uprising: James Clyburn on Lessons from History
"It was march of nineteen sixty when more than thousand students from Claflin at South Carolina State to historically black colleges march to the townsquare in Orangeburg South Carolina. They'RE PROTESTING SEGREGATION firehoses turned on them and hundreds of arrests were made. One of those arrested was a young SC state student from sumpter. He'd been named the Youth President of his local N. double, ACP chapter at age twelve. Now in college, he was one of the organizers of the sit in. and His name with James Clyburn. Sitting in the Orangeburg County jail that March Day. Clyburn at the woman he would go on to marry. Miss Emily England. They remain married for fifty eight years until her death last September. Next month James Clyburn turns eighty. He's never stopped fighting for civil rights. It's a nice story a love, story. But one that belies the dark painful reality. That change is slow in this country. As police hit protesters with rubber bullets and pepper spray this week and thousands of Americans are arrested on the streets of our cities. It starts to feel like we haven't come very far at all. In Times of great struggle and pain, we often look to history to guide us. Congressman James. Clyburn has lived that history. He serving his fourteenth term in the House of Representatives. As a Democrat representing South Carolina's sixth district. As majority whip, he is the highest ranking black legislator in Congress. Stifles. This is into America. And today a conversation with Congressman James Clyburn. So we're in a time of great smote right now, which reminds a lot of people of a far off times Longo days, and it reminds people of what we've seen in the south. Play out through the civil rights era. What was it like for you growing up in Sumter, South Carolina? SUMPTER is the birthplace of the white citizens council. The first time the dollars was really. Attack In. The state was a case. In sumter South Carolina local lawyer, trying to break the back to the NWPP so. No whole lot about background here. You got your start with the end of the. What was your initial impulse to get politically active? Was it some of these same issues that we saw playing out? The reason I got involved in Mississippi at twelve years. Is because of what was going over in the county next to me Cleveland? Browns, we both of education started out. Traveling kind of South Carolina from the three miles where outgoing raise? Remember Brownfield of education. was A was five cases. One of which is in South Carolina, another one was in Delaware. That's how I got to Joe Biden so so well and we used to. Interact a lot over those kinds of issues. This incident though in the nap, it's really. Brought back a lot of members to me. You know the Emmett till case. was something that really saw the rock the nation. The bumming. Those children. There in Birmingham Alabama all of that. This was much like that. And I don't know. I can't explain it because. Walter Scott. Was Shot. In the back, running away from police officers there. In My district in Charleston. South Carolina, those nine souls murdered in the basement of Emmanuel, Ame Church. That to. Was the greatest as yet in both those incidents, though the Communities Chamba. Why is it then? That, we had this kind of reaction. Here. In the naps. I think is because a climate has been created in this country. That people feel. Is being specked against them. And so when I cried out. In My compass meeting, saying that this is an opportunity for us to restructure things. In that vision. Of Limited justice row. Mitch McConnell Bill On. The floor. For the State Senate. And, just as me by position. While we finalize the. To House parachuted in with miscellaneous, liberal Dimaggio unrelated completely unrelated to Kobe nineteen. One Senior House Democrats call the virus tremendous opportunity to restructure. Thanks to Fit our vision. So, we ignored the left wing, wish lists, and we stayed serious, and the Kazakh is still helping American bridge these temporary shutdowns. As what I was saying. is suffering that I had no right to say that they have the right to have a vision for this country, but I'm not back away from that. The healthcare system in this country needs to be restructured. The education system needs to be restricted. The judicial system. needs to be restructured. And that to me? Is Why people react in the way. They reacted because they know. That, this president has created a climate in this country. That stats fakes against them. That's what is going on here. That's my people are reacting the way they reacted not just. US But all across this country and around this were. That to me. makes us. But? Why are we still here? I understand that. This is an example of all the symptoms of a court here, but after all these years we're still dealing with these same issues this president or not. We're still dealing with why. Similar because in this country progress. Moves like a pendulum on the KLOPP. This country moves. Left for a while. Then it goes back, right. And it goes back to left again. That is just the way this country's always been, but I always say to young people just remember this. Country has going from right to left. It passes through the centre. Going from left back right, it passes through the center. And what keeps us? Relatively stable is the fact that canceled in the Senate. Twice as much as they came out left or right. So this went left. When elect! Barack Obama. And starting to go back to the right. Eight years later, we elect Donald Trump I don't believe. That the people voted for them had any idea. That they will see. This guy. Tick this country so far, right? UNTIL THE THREATENS It's made existed. sincerely. That this country. If it doesn't post the rent. In this election we have seen the crumbling foundation. That has made this country what it is. For young activists and organizers who are breathing cove nineteen, they're coming out onto the streets because they believe George Floyd, but other black folks in this country need justice. How would you advise them to move in this moment when you have all of these forces? How how would you guide them through this moment? When I met my wife in jail. I was protested. So I. Know what it is the protest. But I also know. John Lewis and I talked about it a lot. The student movement that we started together snick student nonviolent throwing the committee. Both of us were found founding members of that. I also know that they had. Got Taken away from. You got infiltrated. And that's what's happening to these protests. These protesters are being hijacked about people who got no interest. Seeing the resolution to these issues. And we have got to be careful about that. Yes? Protests. Peaceably but not play into their hands, and that's what trump is trying to get them to do. One thing I learned playing sport. I played baseball football. RUN UP! And I learned. If your opponent. Yet you the plan. Here's a her game. On his her court. They win. Violence is not allowed game. That's trump's game. Insults. Trump's game. That's out game. Let's don't play that game. I you know I've got I've hit my wife. Jill and get that not walking back to the campus. That night. After I was bailed out of jail. We talked. I, this is my first time really meeting her but I. Didn't know that she. This is part of her design she. She knew what she was doing I didn't know. We end up getting mad married for fifty eight years. But! We talked about what it is we were. We decided that night. We were on the wrong target. We needed to refocus. And we did. Envy, one? You know. WHO has. And you know what's wrong. So do what's right and reject the wrong. It's about this idea of the political pendulum swing, and we find ourselves again in this moment of fire in rage and anger, and you've come up through the civil rights era. But were there missed opportunities or misteps? Is there any way that we could have avoided still being here? Even after all the the great change, the leaps that we made were still in this place where many young people would look at what's happening say? The system simply doesn't care about black life like that. America might enjoy culture, but not black people. With their a moment that we missed in the past. No I don't think so. there were moments. When we were challenged. Their moments that we still being challenged that the country has whole. has its challenges. I always say there can be known more within the lesson without experiences allow us to be and so being black in America gives you a set of experiences. That's different from anybody else. In my favorite animal is a term. And I keep them on throughout mov. You'll find a couple of hundred. Turtles in my possession. Because I stayed focus. I tell people. They great does not go to the swiftness. But who? Endured to the in. These that Steph offers. So you've been steady for a very long time and focus and you were the highest ranking black member of Congress and you've chaired. The Congressional Black Caucus and I WANNA to ask you. What do you see as your responsibility in this moment? Our responsibility within the next thirty days. Is Put for it comprehensive. Set of legislative actions. and go up to the public. Explained to what we're doing. Let's take one for instance. Hockey Jeffers. Is doing good work. with his Choco he's been trying to get that. Bill passed. How long? Had Gotten the past. But he hadn't given up. I think he's GonNa pass now. We gotta get rid. Of these laws that were passed. When they call, stand your ground. You and I both know that law unleashed. Vigilantism! Idea Against Black People? That's what got trayvon Martin Chiro. We need to get those laws off the books. We got professionalized for recent in this country. We hire police officers. Before you look the part. And many times without the kind of the proper training. The police in this country needs people federalized. Why is it the doctors and lawyers? Have to maintain periodic training P and all that kind of stuff and we don't require anything like that for police officers. They have much more public contact. These professors that is going to be part of the comprehensive peace lesson that we're GONNA put out. By the end of the month that's going to be doing. Do you think they actually actually be able to move through given the tone, tenor and stance of this administration. Yes I do. Because trump wants it. But I've been need. If bigger. Groundswell comes out here. We already passed. The Buck of all of this is passed the house. is in the heroes at. Enough Presser out here. If the thank you. Put on the docket over in the Senate I think it'll pass the Senate. And public pressure is everything. And I think this president. Give me throws the signing. From the pump. The pump gotTA, get engaged in this. You I'm finding my congressional district. They know fight for this. But the be gotTA. Get other people fighting for those as well in other congressional districts all over this country in another state. So I. Think yes, he could get done. But if it doesn't. then. Hopefully. We'll have a new president who will understand? Why must get done and get it done in the first one hundred days abused administration? Congressman Clyburn you mentioned a new president. And after the break I want to talk to you a little bit about the man who is running into beat president trump as far. Joe Biden. Stick with us. Hey It's Chris Hayes this week on my podcast. Wise is happening I'll be talking with Jesse Wegmann about his new book about the Electoral College and its flaws called. Let the people pick the president. Wouldn't you think that a sixty to forty split in the popular vote would lead to a six four allocation of electors so just to be clear, the constitution says nothing is a essentially a blank check to do whatever they. They want in allocating their electors. The state lawmakers can give the electors out themselves. They don't have to hold a popular vote. You have no right to vote for president. In the constitution, there is no constitutional right for you or I to vote for president. There isn't even a constitutional right for us to vote for electors. That's this week on wise happening search for wise is happening wherever you're listening right now and subscribe. To Go to the moon and do the other thing, not because they are easy, but because they are I'm Chuck Rosenberg on my podcast, the earth I speak with people who sacrifice for the common good who believe in collective responsibility who do things that are hard. Our conversations on the oath are thoughtful, civil, respectful essential we bring these leaders and their struggles and successes to life this week. The oath returns with former secretary of Defense Leon Panetta, the toughest job I had was to sign deployment orders that placed the young men and women in uniform in. In harm's way, this season I will also be speaking with other accomplished than thoughtful leaders, including former NASA, astronaut Kathy Sullivan, the highest ranking woman in the FBI, Amy Hess, former judge and United States attorney, Carol Lam and former Surgeon General Vivek, Murthy, there are fundamental core values around decency, brown kindness around compassion. It's part of our shared humanity. We are truly interdependent. We are stronger when we are together. Join me for season. Three of the oath and MSNBC podcast search for the oath wherever you're listening right now and please subscribe new episodes, everyone's Day. Congressman you've been credited along with a bunch of your constituents. Especially Black folks in South Carolina in really reinvigorating Joe Biden's campaign, but when you have Thallady of Covid nineteen, you have the unrest and all the police violence. Does Joe Biden. Does he owe us specific debt, a specific responsibility to black folks to rectify whatever we're seeing right now. Yes. There we go, yes. Is there anything you. Uh, we'll take any nudging. Obviously, that's that's your guy. But what do you think he will do? That's been different than past presidents. were. Defending incremental a lot of people. Card gradualism. Incremental ISM is something that I think A. Really respected you Barack Obama. Did something good healthcare. That had been on the docket of the President Theodore Roosevelt Not Franklin. Theodore Roosevelt. In round for a hundred years. Universal Access to health care. Joe Biden is already said if he's elected, he will bill upon the affordable care. And I want to say something here. That proposition brings us up and I will. Then ninety nine for crime building. People keep trying to wrap around Joe Bonds. I wish people would really take the time and look at what the Crime Bill was when we passed in the spring of Nineteen, ninety four. And what the Crime Bill? After Newt, Gingrich? Took over the House of Representatives in the fall. November of Nineteen, ninety, four, the Crime Bill Nineteen, Ninety Four Crime Bill. Today has the same name. But it's not the same deal. Giving release in two thousand cops on the street. That's gone. The valid gets women was in that. Now much of that came back yourself weapons gone. We outlawed lot. The Mandatory Sentences Mentor Citizen that come in the ninety nine for crime bill that came in nineteen, eighty six. But people often flavored and so. said that. It? Let's have consequences. People will say though that regardless of how it changed a lot of folks still voted for it, and it had such damage to the black community. Is Your contention that you tried? Tried your best, and that's politics. And then what people say and all you? Do, not have it. As right as they think that crime bill got changed time and time again. That's all I'm saying. Get you. There have been a lot of progressives calling for Joe Biden, tap black woman, as VP, a lot of pressure and the moment we find ourselves in now. should that figure in his calculation at all given that black folks are crying out for leadership but serious change. Oh I. Think I've heard that VAL has been vetted. Heard a comma harassed as being that. Someone told me Susan Rice is. Where you would, you would know right 'cause. You're inside, right? You had no. No, no I have no idea I've just. Been told. I'm not inside the campaign. I'd have a pretty big job in the House of Representatives, so I letting Biden in the professionals. Run the campaign I'm saying now. The campaign I'm going to do my job I. Did my job in the southbound, the primary and on suited up turned it over them. Hopefully my friends. CENTRIC and Marcus Mason. Will make sure that I won't get disappointed. Do you think white. America once the change that black America's calling for. There is a big. Of America Erica. That's what has changed. If you don't believe it, look at the results of the south, Carolina Primary back on. February twenty ninth. and. Look at the vote of parents you will see. Didn't fight suburbs. That had not been voted in the Democratic primary in recent years voted overwhelmingly. In that primary for bottom. Now everybody looked at my Osman. And Black folks participation I've looked beyond that and I see some voting patterns and I know why Jamie Harrison. is running so well against mets rail, and that's why you never hear me. Say That trump is playing to his base I always said. The isn't element. In his base. That he's planning to. A lot of people. In his base that are walking away. I want to ask you this not as a rep clyburn, but as as Mister Clyburn as a black man who's seen a lot over the years in this moment. Are you hopeful for the future and we'll come next. Are you scared of what could be next? Yes I am hopeful. Yes, I am afraid. I am fearful for the future of this country. I am hopeful. That we will not allow. This one man. Who has very low regard. For the constitutional principles. A one richest country was built. Who seemed to have the Divi-. Of in. Compassion. For other people. Hopefully. We will not allow that. To be the future of this country. The electorate. Got Fooled once. Now that's. What we get fooled twice. That's can be on us. What advice, would. You give to America right now. I would say to this country. Look at what Alexis de Tocqueville? said to us as a country. Back in eighteen, thirty, five, thirty six. World is two volume book. On the greatness of this country. Let's talk about said. America's greatness. Is Not. That it is mowing, lighten. The. Nation. But Rather. Because is always been able to repair its faults. This pandemic. This merit. Of George. Floyd. Pulled back the curtain. On some folks. That exists in this country. Let's get to work and repay those faults. Repair! Our healthcare system out hits occasional system. Algae digital system. And I believe. If we do. We shall overcome. Clyburn I wanNA thank you so much. You obviously are a giant among men, and we appreciate your time. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Congressman James Clyburn is majority whip and a Democrat representing South Carolina's Sixth Congressional district. It's been about two weeks since George Floyd was killed. Two weeks of her and anguish and pain. But also two weeks of America wrestling with itself over who been who we are, and for some who were striving to become? The into America team has worked hard this past week. To unpack with this moment actually means for all of us, and we thank you truly for joining US along the way. And take your podcast feeds this weekend. We've got a look at the fight between religious freedom and public health that playing out all across the country as a result of corona virus. That episode drop Saturday. Into America is produced by about Angel Alison, Bailey, Aaron Dawn Max Jacobs Barbara, Rab clarify I should turner and pre devore thon original music by his Brown. OUR EXECUTIVE PRODUCER IS ELLA FRECHMAN Steve. Lick is executive producer audio. I'm mainly. We'll be back again tomorrow.
128 - First Day of School1960, New Orleans
"Radio welcome to the kitchen sisters present six where the kitchen sisters Dave Nelson N. Nikki Silva. Hey everyone one lovey Ajayi here. Host of the podcast ransom randomness. and Jesus Angelov. If you're listening to my voice right now the you know podcast our wares at so. Why haven't you started yours? podcast in one one is a new series from Google podcast NPR. Rex teach you everything you need to know. It's a plan record record in launch your podcast. Oh I mentioned their free. No Promo code needed. Check out the entire series at PR wrecks dot org slash podcasting being one. Oh one this episode of the kitchen sisters present is brought to you. By CENSO- censorial mix full spectrum whole plant. CBD that's organically grown own naturally extracted and accessibly priced. They organically farm all their own hemp in Vermont. They naturally extract CBD from him using organic coconut oil and they test their products at three. I S O credited laps to ensure potency and period today listeners of the kitchen sisters can try back some soil. CBD At twenty percent off head to send Soil Dot Com and save twenty percents off your order by entering code kitchen sisters at checkout gap that Sun Soil Dot Com Promo Code Kitchen Sisters for twenty percent off your order. I remember uh right before I started going down. Nineteen on and I took a bus ride took announced you took a bus ride. She was paying the fare and I sat down right behind the driver of the No. You can't sit there and I asked her why inches here. Well you don't understand now will in a few weeks you will so I knew something was about. That's Leona Tate. When she was six years old she was chosen along with three other girls to integrate the public schools in New Orleans in nineteen sixty? We've produced the story a few years back and we want to put it out there again. Because it seems critical particularly now to remember and pay tribute to the many keepers of the archives. The stories the truth about our past and the long fight for what is fair and just ACA remember getting dressed in a black car jove out parked in front of the door household. Got Real it was the US marshals coming so my mother and I left may drove us to the school building and she said sit in the back of that seat and do not put your face. We turned the corner them. All I can see crowds of people. Police don't horseback ACA related to was a parade with stomach. It looked like a Mardi gras day. Why did we have to go to school or Mardi Gras I didn't think it was a mighty girl. I was scared. All I could see these crowds of people and if they could get to me. I thought it was gonNA kill me that morning when win. The Marshall came to pick my daddy and I my mother was home. She was a nervous wreck and she told the Marshall. I'm giving you my baby. This is my baby and he told her he said this is my job. And I'm going to take care babe you don't have to worry about them. November fourteen meet one thousand nine hundred sixty Leona tate. Tessie Preval's gale and Ruby bridges integrated the public schools in ruins. Six years after Brown was decided. Keep Plessey for generation descendant of home replacing President and Co founder of the pleasant and Ferguson Foundation. Brown versus board of Education was the landmark school desegregation case. There were many challenges in implementing that case. I'm Brenda billips. Square Co Pastor leaching Memorial Congregational United Church of Christ. I'm an archivist. Preserving the history of black education when it comes to implementing Brown versus board of Education New Orleans is chosen by the NAACP and very courageous judge to schools were selected. Liked it William France and McDonald. Nineteen when did you first begin to think about Leona going to school at mcdonagh after. CBS got avocation and pass the test. Well that's what give me I do. She was gone How did you happen to make the application application in the first place variables in the pavements? And just call up an agonising. They want my mom filled out the application. They selected a hundred in forty five families. They chose five families but only four could participate. NWPP was working without parents at that time. I'm doing Yona Tate. One of the six year old black girls at integrated the all white public schools here in New Orleans Louisiana. There was a lot of planning a great deal of faith and courage for this to happen. The girls had to take a test to make sure that they were going to be able to do the work. I can remember a lady in a man. Dan both white standing over me and we would test it. Psychologically tested at school board was mostly questions and answers. You know so I must have talked my way right through that. When do you think that she will get better schooling here? You will think she. Will we walk face with either clothing schools or integrating the schools. I fought with the greatest determination to preside for the children on the wagons and state surrogate of the races. Because I honestly believe that only on the system can we properly educate the children of both races. The city city at that time did not welcome school. Integration when the black girls enrolled in the schools the each own Washer to protect them court audit. That was a rookie Marshall Service. It's when I was sent down to New Orleans and it was pretty scary when we get to mcdonagh nineteenth hole school campus surrounded by New Orleans. Policemen some were on horses. The things that went on there where undescribable. I couldn't believe grueling when people would act the way they did about four girls go to school. One of the things that was in my mind is that I had two small children. I'll be damned in. Defending by is going to tell them they can't go to school and that's the way I felt about it. Nobody had right to tell these ladies that they could not go to school. We the as deputy marshals if we didn't get the job done but we were going to set the whole movement back. God knows how many years it just just head to be done marshalls escort enough steps. They didn't know what to do with us. Once we got in in there we said there are quite a few hours before we were placed in the classroom was class. White Children Mismile was was teaching and all of a sudden you see children disappearing. The parishes started pulling children out of school before you knew it. They were all they were going for the year and a half there was no one else but us and miss minds mrs to me. What do you think might happen eventually in this well? I know I couldn't stay on that long. Aw because they legislature has urged quite Paris. Here's to resist integration. The legislature took out paid advertisements in New Orleans papers which urged the parents to boycott. They have not urged violence silence but they have said resist integration boycott the schools and demonstrate peacefully people. Were angry that list so much hate. They have been taught that black people would somehow hurt their children. They were so whole devoted to separation that these slow children were actually targets and their families. Were targets my dad was a welder and and a mechanic he worked in Saint Bernard parish which was highly races so my dad's name stayed out of the public a long time. Nobody knew who he us. One legislator urged Lynch Party for what he called integration as white parents. The two of his colleague pointed out. Everybody knows that this manage manage joking. He didn't really minute he didn't mean what he said. Probably in the legislature. People did not think he meant that people should be lynched in New Orleans. We doc heavily guarded at night all day. You know at least outside confined. We couldn't play in the yard we had to bring our own lunch. Couldn't eat from in the cafeteria. I guess it's safe to reason with bank. We'll be right back. The kitchen sisters present is sponsored by a way thoughtful luggage for modern travel. They've thought of just about everything. It's lightweight easy to go up and down stairs. The wheels don't stick. It fits in the overhead Ed and a built in compression pat that helps you pack in more even boots winter clothes. I'm amazed at how much I can get inside this bag it. It has a built in lock that the TSA won't question. I also really like the removable laundry bag. There's a limited lifetime warranty which means they'll fix or replace your bag if if it ever gets damaged. There's free shipping on any away order within the contiguous. US Europe and Australia for twenty dollars off a suitcase visit away travel dot com slash kitchen sisters and use Promo Code Kitchen sisters during checkout. That's away travel dot com slash kitchen sisters Promo code kitchen sisters during checkout out. We left MacDonald one thousand nine after the second grade because mcdonagh nineteen became a black school. It was all black. Dead End up. Lacy will keep us in a white school so they transferred US terminology sims it was total chaos. They were sent over not J.. Sounds another school but this time. The white children didn't leave. We went to Sam's with a school full of students at didn't wants to be there. They used to beat us. KY-KO's the spit on us. I got hit in the stomach with a baseball bat. We would deathly afraid to go in the cafeteria whiskey. Whiskey is the bathroom alone. There were teachers cursed the children to call US names. resets time you'd hide tree. That was our little protection. They Dan do it a lot of violence hostility from teachers who did not welcome them. They were civil rights. Pioneers at age of six and seven and eight year old the way that immigration system worked was it started with them at six years old and elementary school. Junior high and senior high were not integrated waited until they became age ten. They were the first to integrate. Every level is cool and their age brackets integration progress as we progress agree once we reach tenth grade then they opened it up on the way you can go to integrate. Wait will leave even junior high school in sixty nine. We were going to senior high school to Francis Nicholls. That was kind of rough even though it was a lot of black students at that school then we had a confederate flag. The mascot was rebel that caused a lot of friction. They expected the blacks to support the rebel mascot. And they don't WanNa do that. I can remember going to school. One day I walk in the cafeteria and chairs being thrown and it was an uproar. Police were coming into building a horseback and white and the blacks of fighting in. They didn't want the mascot to be changed. I asked Tessie. Why didn't you ever talk about this? She said I was finished with civil rights. By the time time I got to high school I was done. They will complain to their parents at. TJ Sam's and Guilloux said. Her Dad said you know he was with Martin Luther King. He he said don't fight back you can't fight just got to pray and Dad. We write letters for nothing would be done. I didn't talk abided for years then. I'm thinking that I decided to break out when Barack got elected president and I said wow we really master did something guilt tests and now we always talked about McDonnell nineteen because it had closed down the FBI. Four Katrina was already closed when allowed us to come into the lower ninth ward. Not I say let's go back to school. Let me see what it looks like. You can see the water just hit the bottom level but looked fine and I said well. Something's gotTa be done. Yeah after the inauguration organization we got together and we put the foundation when they were going to auction mcdonagh nineteen. I contacted Leona Tate. One of those young ladies and I said let's go together. Gather to the school board. We have to let them know that these are civil rights institutions that cannot be just auctioned just as our ancestors had been at the plus in Ferguson Foundation. We're documenting mocking historic sites because there are very few markers of like history in New Orleans. The vision is to do a Civil Rights Museum New Orleans does not have a civil rights missy. So we're GONNA have first civil rights missing in this bill. Each generation has to impart the stories for the future generations so that people will know who they are. Ruby Bridges Gail Tessa and Leona with the four girls who integrated public education in the deep South on November. Remember nineteen thousand nine hundred sixty. They were chosen as put soldiers on a front line. The kitchen sisters present is produced by the kitchen sisters with Nathan Dalton and Brandy Hal. We thank our production interns earns Miracle Ansi Charlotte Landis Taylor Simmons Katie mccutchen. Mary Franklin Marvin and Paulina. Tano lots of people to give thanks to today day. We thank Keith. Plessey and phoebe Ferguson. Founders of the Plessey Ferguson Foundation. Who introduced us to this story? We'll be doing a piece soon about about the foundation and the historic plessey versus Ferguson Supreme Court. Case in the meantime here's Keith. plessey talking about the power of one of his foundation's projects historic plaques after US putting the Marker mcdonagh nineteen where it exists at the Saint Bernard Parish Line in two thousand ten to commemorate the school. The wrecking ball was waiting to knock down by placing the marker in front of it. We ceased wrecking ball. Seven years later the National Park Service finally recognized that site as a historic place. They gave the Leona Tate Foundation. Should I change a half a million dollars to start refurbishing that school and telling at history as all part of groundwork several of the voices you heard in the story were recorded in two thousand ten at Tulane University as part of a reunion and Panel Discussion on the Fiftieth Eighth Anniversary of the integration of public schools in New Orleans. What an incredible and significant gathering voice as you heard include the unattainable tessie provost tvos Williams and Gail at Tan stripling who integrated McDonnell nineteen? You also heard retired deputy. US Marshals Charlie Burke Herschel Garner honor and out Butler this gathering was the first time the women had reunited with the marshals since November nineteen sixty. We think Tulane University versity Armistead Research Center History Department Louisiana Endowment for the Humanities Louisiana Center for Civil Rights and social justice the US marshals museum him and moderator Alan Wider for the WSB an archival news footage in this story. We think Taylor. Ci Coin and Ruta Adelines Brown Media Archives Types and peabody awards collection. UGA special collections. Library and thanks to Brenda Flora Audiovisual archivist armistead research center two Lane University. Thanks to Leona Tate you can find out more about the Leona Tate Foundation for change and their Civil Rights Museum project at www. W W L T F C I N C Dot Org. Thank you prospect for New Orleans the Lotus in spite of the swamp. The story is part of our Levy stream project in collaboration with Oda Big Jones and associates made possible in part by Ruth. Eufor Tell Foundation and Project Act and as always we thank the National Endowment for the Amenities and the National Endowment for the arts. Art Works the kitchen. Sisters is present as part of Radio Tokyo from P. R. X.. A curated network of extraordinary. Cutting edge podcasts created by independent producers. Thanks for listening when you were growing up. Did you have her attempt to write song lyrics. Wchs was it rock rap goth country in their newest episode. Our friends at mortified podcast are leaning on their expertise in all things teen angst. I to celebrate all those earnest and melodramatic songs he wrote in high school. Think of it as Song Explorer for your childhood lyrics when I I was in first and second grade and my brother and I can't with the song using the name of our family dermatologist. When I was eleven years old I wrote the song told happy be times a here again? Girl crush on her name is laurel and I- versa. Lorelei sounded more poetic and I was about seven years old my a little sister and I wrote an Ode to my dad's bald spot to the tune of willing bully and we call this song only bald spot and this is what it sounds like. I slouch down in my blow. So you know the lyrics you saved in a drawer for decades or ridiculous. Got Candles Sandos burning in my mind. My win what if you just needed someone to help you. Discover their hidden potential. I'm not the child Lord. I used to be mortified. PODCAST is changing things up and taking a break from the usual format of the show as we present I used to rock a music music competition. Unlike any other where we challenge professional musicians to re imagine the ridiculous. Owns you visit kid but any song be transformed into infectious pop anthem. Steak fork fork in me. Because I am dead in episode one seventy six the mortified podcast. I am dead dead. Ed that the data that check out the mortified podcast at get mortified dot com. Or wherever. You get your podcasts radio.
Don't Be Like Mike
"It's Wednesday may sixth. I'm Akilah Hughes and I'm getting and this is what a day we're we're congratulating grimes becoming a motherboard and using a keyboard and just slapping her hands on it to name the kid like x a x nine seventy seven whatever. It is as a black person with the name that people fuck up. I'm upset on today's show we check in with Wisconsin's newly elected Supreme Court justice than some headlines. But first the latest. So that's the sound of shepherds hurting tons of sheep through streets in Turkey that are empty because of corona virus. Curfews so in case you ever wanted to know what that sounds like. That was that. But in news vice president pence told reporters yesterday that the Corona Task Force created to manage the federal government's response to the pandemic could be disbanded within a month because of quote the tremendous progress. We've made as a country to that. I say Sir the kilo. What what does this actually mean? Dude I don't know like at this point I don't know I don't have an answer for the delusion and just literally don't know as far as progress goes many states are reopening. Even cases are increasing and models are predicting an additional uptick in cases. More than seventy thousand Americans died So if this is progress honestly don't know what the is a senior White House official told. Cnn that the task force will be phased down by Memorial Day and trump told reporters during his mask. Lewis trip to the honeywell mask plans in Arizona. That even after the task force is disbanded. Dr Burks the Virus Response Coordinator for the Task Force and other top public officials could still be involved in the efforts to address the pandemic and on that front do we know. In what capacity are they going to be doing their own press conferences or something? I mean I think we just have to stop assuming that this administration has a plan. All we know is that they claim that we're still going to hear from them. There are never details but practically speaking disbanding the task force means that we could have less coordination between federal agencies and less of a planned response effort. Not that it's been going that great so far The administration is having a particularly bad week in regards to their corona virus response aside from this bizarre statement from the Vice President Ri Progress Rick. Bright the former top vaccine official removed from his post in April alleged in a whistleblower complaint that he was reassigned because he tried to quote prioritize science and safety over political expediency and added that he was pressured to contract with companies that have political links to the administration. Who Yeah. This is definitely something that we're going to have to keep an eye on going forward. Yeah and complaint filed to. The House suggests that the virus team headed up by nepotism poster child. Jared Kushner has been suffering because it relies on volunteers from consulting and private equity firms. That are completely underqualified. Ill suited for the job so seems like a real theme with Kushner and his team which has been acting kind of like a shadow task force is expected to continue his shadow. Task-forcing in the Middle East went great shifting gears though for a second about something else coming out of the government at the moment stimulus. Checks seems like the government is getting sued. A bunch on that front yeah. So yesterday. In Texas children of undocumented parents filed a lawsuit against the trump administration to receive their stimulus checks under the cares. Acts families should be receiving five hundred dollars per child but undocumented people and status families were excluded. The suit claims that these children U. S. citizens are being denied that relief and their constitutional rights to equal protection and due process. So damn and this also follows last week's lawsuit from spouses of undocumented immigrants who similarly have not received their money all right so that's a quick look at the government and stories related to that we have updates on the science front as it relates to the virus thankfully yes science is still crushing. It so a couple. New Studies are adding to the pile of evidence that children can and do transmit the corona virus so while trump might want Barron to go back to school already. Epidemiologists are just cautioning entirely against reopening in a study published last week in the Journal. Science data from two cities in China were analyzed where the virus first emerged and Shanghai. The study found that children were around a third susceptible to corona virus infection as adults were but and this is a really big but when schools were open children had three times as many contacts as adults and three times as many opportunities to get infected. Which essentially just evens out their risk. There are several countries have begun to reopen schools but they have done a better job of controlling the virus and we have an only time is going to tell if they continue to be safe in that decision. Another study out of Germany backed up the findings that children can spread the virus readily. This is one of the big questions. Epidemiologists trying to solve studies like these are really important to getting to a practical answer on what to do about schools in the future. So that's what's going on nationally. But let's take a moment to zoom in on Wisconsin where the state legislature is suing over Wisconsin. Stay at home order. Get in you want to explain. Yeah so the case is called Wisconsin legislature versus palm and the palm in this situation refers to Andrea Palm. Who is the head of the state's health agency appointed by governor? Tony Verse who is a Democrat? The lawsuit filed by the State's Republican controlled legislature is effectively seeking to put an end to the stay at home order in the state. But it ends up being bigger than that. It's also questioning whether palm exceeded her authority when she ordered those closures instructed. Wisconsin is to stay home beginning on March twenty fourth and it could impact this kind of quick necessary. Decision making by figures like palm in the future. Wisconsin currently has about eight thousand five hundred cases all right so this case is now in front of Wisconsin Supreme Court which currently has a conservative majority. Yesterday they heard oral arguments over zoom. Any sense of how they're going to decide right. Even though the justices themselves were practising social distancing the five conservative justices on the court appeared fine with the prospect of ending this mandated order to give you a sense of where their heads are at. Here are a few of the issues. Those justices brought up. I'm paraphrasing here. Is Palms Order Akin to the executive order mandating internment of Japanese-americans in World War? Two could bomb us the same authority to do shutdowns for the seasonal flu and win the lawyer. Arguing on behalf of the order mentioned a cove in nineteen outbreak at a meat packing facility in the state. One of the justice jumped into point out that those cases weren't among quote regular folks in that county. Oh yes sorry. That's just a that's a wild thing to say regular folks regular folks. The court though has not said yet when a decision would be reached on the case. But we'll keep you updated and as we've talked about on the show. This is the same. Wisconsin Supreme Court that overturned the Democrat governors ordered to postpone recent election in the state forcing people to scramble to get their absentee ballots in or even go to the polls we now know voting in person on that day has led to dozens of identified cove nineteen cases which obviously terrible totally predictable but in that same election in April one of these conservative justices Daniel Kelly who had the backing of president trump lost his seat on the court. Judge Joe Roff ski running on a platform of restoring faith in our courts defeated him and we spoke to her earlier this week about the election. I do think that there were people who were angry. About what the United States Supreme Court but the Wisconsin State Supreme Court what Wisconsin Legislature decided on the eve of the election. And they said we're going to vote and you saw them in their masks when you saw them with their gloves and you saw them standing six feet apart especially in Milwaukee and they went to the polls. They wanted their voice to be heard. Yeah I mean if you're going to force people to be risking their lives then like they're gonNA show up and vote against you But you know cross ski. Winning was a really big upset. Yeah Oh yeah I mean incumbents. Don't lose often. In these circumstances Kelly was just the second income into loose since nineteen sixty seven and in the more immediate future. Karachi's victory means that the courts conservative majority will fall from five to four three. And that'll be important. For upcoming cases things to do with voting rights gerrymandering other civil rights cases things of that nature and there's also some evidence that Republicans insistence on making people show up to vote endangering their public. Health and safety may have led to a backlash against them the Progressive Organization future now fund put out a study showing the counties in Wisconsin with Higher Corona Virus. Infection rates had bigger shifts towards kickoff ski than places with lower rates. So Wisconsin is a swing state So this win has some Democrats feeling like they could take the state in November. Give the apparent success of the organizing that went into mobilizing vote by mail and voter sentiment and this sort of broader backlash against trump and republican mismanagement of the pandemic right But for craft skied. The win was bittersweet because she found it unconscionable that people are made to vote under those circumstances when we talked to her. She said that she's hoping to be part of making the court's less partisan and less bought off by businesses or Special Interests Donald Trump's I endorsed van Kelly back in January Dan Kelly started signaling to Donald Trump. That if you get across the finish line on April seventh I will be there for you come November when we talk about things like like border perjure other issues and so it was just it was no surprise at all and Kelly were very very consistent. Vote for right-wing special interest and is seem to be very very aligned with with Donald Trump. August I I will start of my term. It is a ten year term on Wisconsin State Supreme Court and am going to get busy. Doing the job was elected to do which is interpreting the law and making decisions that come before us based on what the law says. Yeah sounds like a good plan and like what justices are supposed to do by the way while we're talking about fairness vote by mail is going to be essential part of a safe and fair election in November and the great news is there's research that it increases participation to for young people for people of Color and across socioeconomic groups if you want to push for that join our campaign and call your members of Congress head over to vote save America dot com slash. Call to find out more waad squad. Is it Wednesday? It's Wednesday well I doing. I hope you're doing okay. Hope you're sleeping enough. Let's check in so I've been watching a lot of TV. New and old and Giddy. I WanNa know what new show do you love? Oh I have a bad answer this but I have a wreck for a movie. That is the length of perhaps three shows There's three three like thirty thirty minute shows is called so I guess standard yes. Bbs Is easier way to put it. it's called unstoppable and the concept is the Chris Pine and Denzel Washington have to stop a runaway freight train that is going through the middle of Pennsylvania. Cool action movie cool concept based on a true story and features like a fairly old denzel running on the top of train to actually like hit the brakes on it while turning away so speed speed. It's speed but real on a train. Yeah Iraq's well I mean I'm not the target demographic for that but I guarantee someone listening is GonNa Watch back to us there. The unstoppable hive is on sophomore. Frankly but what's what is your. What does your benching habit like? Okay so eating terrible but binge watching I have loved never. Have I ever a Netflix? The show is incredible Mindy Kayla new show. It's about teenage girls in high school. It is not just about that though. It's about so many things grief in being Indian and all of these very interesting things but I think my favorite thing about it is that John McEnroe. The very angry to this player narrates it from the perspective of the teenage girls and every every time has narration breaks in. I have to like pause to stop laughing because he is very good at narrating that rocks. Yeah I've heard really good things about this I'm excited to catch onto it. Approximately five years late and report back to everyone at that point. Yeah I mean that's fair. There's there's plenty to watch. We HAVE TIME. It seems like but guess what guys we did it. We did it. We check these temperatures and wow I feel better already hope you're streaming service of choice to stops asking you if you're still watching and just assume that you are gonNA check your temp again tomorrow and now for some ads let guys life is uncertain right. Now it's also scary and bad. A lot of people are anxious in while. We're doing whatever we can to take care of our physical health. It is equally important to take care of our mental health so in honor of mental health month talks space online. Therapy is committed to fostering a global community around the importance of mental health. And while we may not be able to shake hands high five hug or even gather in solidarity. We can reach out for support the bottom line. You deserve support and you don't have to struggle on your own. Your space therapists can be your dedicated support system there to help you feel healthier and more empowered. Even while things are a little out of whack as a listener of this podcast. You can get one hundred dollars off your first month on talk space to match with your perfect therapist. Go to talk space dot com or download the APP make sure to use the code. What a day to get one hundred dollars off your first month and show your support for the show. That's what a day and talks based on. Everything is totally insane and anxiety inducing all the time so it's fine to have something to take the edge off a little bit feels is premium. Cbd delivered directly to your doorstep. The natural helps reduce stress anxiety pain and sleeplessness. Has Me Feeling my best every day? It can help you to become a member today by going to feel SICOM SLASH. What Day and you'll get fifty percent off your first order with free shipping that's F. E. A. L. S. dot com slash. What a day to become a member and get fifty percent automatically taken off your first order with free shipping feel dot com slash talk. Let's wrap up with some headlines head lands prosecutors in Georgia's say they plan to present a case involving the killing of an unarmed black man to a grand jury. Twenty Five Year Old Ahmad Berry was jogging through a neighborhood back in February when two white men chased after him in their truck and fatally shot him. The men said they thought he was involved in a burglary and claimed self defense. Neither of them were arrested after the shooting which drew a lot of anger from civil rights activists and local NWPP leaders one prosecutor who later recused himself from the case that Arby's assailants acted legally under Georgia's citizens arrest statutes after a graphic video of the incident emerged online. The cases current prosecutor contradicted that position deciding that grand jury should see the case and consider criminal charges against the men who killed rb that could take up to a month because of the pandemic California is suing Uber and lived for Miss Classifying their drivers as independent contractors rather than employees. The state's attorney general. Are they violated? A New California law requiring companies to prove that contractors are free from company control the claims that by classifying workers as independent contractors the companies are depriving them basic workers protections such as minimum wage overtime and unemployment insurance burn lift have been pouring millions of dollars into ballot initiatives in recent months to make sure that their workers would be exempt from the new law. Astute listeners will notice. This could mean. Those ballot initiatives are bad intriguing shortages stemming from krona virus related plant. Closures have begun to hit home for certain junior bacon cheeseburger loving members of the WAD squad. Nearly one fifth of America's five thousand five hundred Wendy's restaurants are currently out of beef. That's according to one industry analyst who said that. Wendy's is especially vulnerable among fast food places for using be that's always fresh never frozen. Their only crime was being too damp here for this godforsaken world in contrast though the CEO of McDonald's gloated last week that his company hasn't experienced quote a single supply. Chain break will be sure to come by then. So the folks that McDonalds can thaw out one of their ice cold two year old patties and watch me throw it in the garbage. You stay away from my noble red-haired friend Wendy Wendy. Yes we know where the beef is all right well. A large portion of American workers aren't ready to give up the Pajama bottoms and fully loaded. Eleven am sandwiches of their work from home lifestyle. That's according to IBM survey released last week. Which found that fifty? Four percent of the thousand five thousand adults polled want the ability to work mostly from home after the corona virus. Pandemic ends work from home is an option. That's mostly available to white collar workers. It's usually not possible for people who work in manufacturing jobs or grocery store clerks delivery people and more those who have the ability might be able to continue clocking in from their living room. A Gallup poll showed that fifty two percent of managers whose employees are currently working from home will allow more remote work in the future. Tate and those are the headlines. That's all today. If you like the Sri Subscribe Leave Review Donate beef to a Wendy's near you and tell your friends to listen and if you're endure eating and not just curse before it's wiped off the face of the earth like me what today's also a newsletter or. Check it out. Subscribe at crooked dot com slash. Subscribe Ign Akilah Hughes. I'm getting interesting and enjoy your fully. Loaded eleven am sandwiches. I wish I was a part of that lifestyle and meat pop tarts over here. No where are we getting these? Sammy's friends what a day is a product of cricket media it's recorded and mixed by Charlotte Landis Sonya ton is our assistant producer or writer John Milstein and our senior producer is Katie log. Our theme music is by calling Gillard and Kashasa.
Into the NAACP vs the Postal Service
"Thank you. Chad. Johnson for calling this here. June fifteenth, I became America's seventy fifth postmaster general. I did. So because I believe the puzzle service lays tremendously positive role in the lives of the American public in the life of the nation. Vith November in the face of pandemic voters are expecting to rely heavily on vote by mail. On Friday Postmaster General Louis Joy tried to ease the nerves of lawmakers and the American. Public I want to assure this committee and the American public at the Postal Service is fully capable and committed to delivering the nation's election male securely and on time. In a virtual hearing in front of the Senate, Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee. The Joy said the United States Postal Service is ready. This sacred duty is my number one priority between now and election. Day. Today, he made the same argument for the House Committee on oversight and reform. To be clear, we will do everything. We can to handle and deliver election mail in a manner consistent with the proven processes and procedures that we have relied upon for years. The fact that the joy is testifying before Congress in the middle of August when members are typically recess is unusual. These emergency hearings were called out of concern that the joy atop donor to president trump has been trying to interfere with the election. In the two months that he's been in the role, the joy has reorganized in some cases gotten rid of leadership post at USPS. He's eliminated employee overtime for move mail sorting machines and taken letter collection boxes off the streets. The says he's working to make the financially struggling institution more Salvin. But the changes have called stressful workers disruption to service and a national outcry after two hundred, forty years of patriotic service delivering the mail. How can one person? Screw this up in just a few weeks in all of our districts we are hearing from constituents about six. Delays in the delivery of mail medicines, food and other supplies can are believe that in the midst of a global pandemic, an economic crisis that we are having to exert energy to preserve the. United States Postal Service. You have ended a once proud tradition. In response, the joy agreed to suspend additional moves until after the election. Like. To emphasize that there has been no changes in any Odyssey's with regard to election mail for twenty twenty election but Democrats are calling him to go a step further and reverse his changes. As the battle continues in Washington a handful of states and organizations have filed or planned the foul lawsuits against the US ps among them is the end of Lacey Pe-. We. Have a long history in this country of manipulating the outcomes of election particularly when it comes to African Americans, there has always been effort to suppress the black vote and to overall subvert democracy. I'm tra- mainly in this is into America. Today how the freight over the future of the US Postal Service is impacting black Americans for generations. The USPS has been a stepping stone into the middle class for black families, and this year is going to be a crucial voting tool for many more. We'll look at how workers are handling the pressure of cuts and service changes and what's being done to make sure every vote is counted this November. Thurman has spent twenty five years working for the post office. Is Chicago he's a mail handler. He spends his days sorting letters and packages loading and unloading trucks that kind of thing. One of our producers gave him a call on Friday. He told her that working in the post office is basically the family business. Both of my parents worked for the Postal Service my grandfather grandmother worked for the Post Office on my Dad's side. My grandmother worked for the. Post. Houses on. Both houses you name it. So pretty much my whole family either you a nurse or poster work. Jay Story isn't uncommon. The US has been crucial employer for black people from more than a hundred years at the turn of the twentieth century. Black men and women sought out the postal service for stable long-term work. Today more than twenty percent of post office workers are black. Okay. Well but. Guessing wants the money. So round working a twenty, four, hour, seven, eight, three, hundred, sixty, five days operation. It's always open always working inside a plant I'm model is all ways that we deliver. The Pan restraints that we have when the pressure to get that mail out we live it. You learn how to work under pressure very well when you work as a post office. That pressure reaches a whole different level when it comes to what is called political male apathy ballots mail in ballots. That's all part of political mail and it's high priority. When that mail comes in and his political meal, you start hearing these calls, you him political male political male. You know they start making calls what I'm trying to say is the political male priority i. don't care what Male anybody touches when that political mail comes in. That's the first thing that everybody gravity source was coming off the dot with his coming headed towards detail three, they pulling it up, they landed up, you have tractors or. What have you land up supervisors are standing there. They like this little mail we need you to take this you know to the south end of the building. So you bring it over there to the south end of the building no matter how much mail no matter what's going on that political mail is worked I it just passes from hand to hang until it goes to where it has to go. You waited this rant is literally likability. Typically the USPS relies on high volume sorting machines to get through all that male and if one of the machines breaks down, they don't waste any time getting things up and running again. So anything goes wrong with those machines. They call them mechanic over there and I'm not exaggerating this at all. They look like Nascar those guys Nasqad to take the tires off and fix the car when they come to pitstops. That's what they look like. This summer postmaster. General Louis Joy ordered more than six hundred though sorting machines be disconnected and removed citing decline in mail volume. The joy recently put this plan on hold, but it's unclear whether the machines that had already been stopped we'll be revived. J.. Thurman. Is Aware of the funding crisis unfolding at the highest levels of the post office especially moved cutback on overtime. While he doesn't like to get political. What he's hearing from the top has I'm worried it's affecting his job. Always carry. When They going to make a change and you don't know what's going to happen. When they say all the time. And they were saying, well, we're not doing any overtime and we have to turn around and we got we have to get the smell out. That's even more pressure. It's like you can cut it with a nice. You feel like you could just cut it because there's so go go go go go go. Let's go you know. So there's obstacle after obstacle, but despite R. J. Sure that he and his co workers can pull this off. The US postal services responsible for the meal all over this world, you have soldiers that are being deployed of combat don't have conflict areas and all of America you have family members. Sweep grandmothers. MOM's lives. And loved one. Sin Packages. Over into a war zone. And it's delivered. And it's been like that for us and to come now and you know, ask can use live of critical mail. You. Know. I'm sorry. But it almost feels like it's a slap in the face because like. We can deliver a package over to Afghanistan. Then you question the post office and ask it'd be a problem if you deliver a first-class letter to Iowa. Wasi Thurman may be confident. A lot of other people are concerned about a mail in election and what feels like a threat to democracy itself including the end of Lacey? Pe-. Last week the Civil Rights Organization filed a lawsuit against Postmaster General the joy accusing him of sabotaging his own United States postal service. The lawsuit calls it quote a blatant attempt to disenfranchise voters of color. After the break we talked to nwpp. President, Johnson about that lawsuit. Stick with us. We get support from keeps. As guys. So much of our identity is wrapped up in our hair. That's why when we get into our twenties and thirties and start noticing the first signs of hair loss. It definitely feels like it's time to panic because let's face it. No guy is ever ready to go bald well, thankfully now there's keeps the simple and easy way to keep your hair. Because the thing is two out of three, guys will experience some form of male pattern baldness. By the time they're thirty five and the best way to prevent hair loss is the do something about it while you still have hair left. Keeps offers generic versions of the only two FDA approved hair loss products out there and when you go through them, you can visit a doctor online and get hair loss medication delivered right to your home they deliver your medication every three months. So you can say goodbye to pharmacy checkout lines and awkward doctor. Visits. If. You're ready to take action to prevent Harris go to keeps dot com slash into America to receive your first month of treatment for free. That's K. E. P. S. KEEPS DOT com slash into America all one word. Hey everyone. It's Chris. As you know these days i. find it helpful to just take a step back from the day to day onslaught of news and take a broader look at the issues I haven't had time to cover my TV. Show all in everything from the legacy of racism in America to how community in creativity can flourish amidst a pandemic to how Democrats could win and deep. Red America, I do it each week on my podcast wise is happening and I'm joined by uniquely qualified guests like Pulitzer Prize winning reporter Nicole Hannah Jones progress does not mean justice or equality or. that. We are right after four hundred years of black people being in this country the type of marking incremental progress in patting ourselves on the back for that has been long over author Rebecca Solnit. How do we take care of each other in the context of not being able to physically be with each other in ordinary ways crooked media's Jon favreau. It's going to be the highest turnout election in history, which means that it is a persuasion game and many others who helped me make sense of what's happening in our society and our world. I really enjoy our conversations. I hope you will. Join me for new episodes. Every Tuesday just search for wise is happening wherever you're listening right now and subscribe hey, it's Chris Hayes this week on my podcast wise is happening I'll be talking with Ryan thumb about the Chinese government's ongoing ethnic cleansing of its weaker minority. You can make people submit, but it's very difficult to make them think differently, there's bound to be a large percentage of this million or so people who they determine to be irredeemable and I'm worried about what happens you know the German concentration camps it was something. Like four or five years before the majority of the population in them was Jewish, and it was eight or nine years before they were connected to a program of mass killing. So the reason I bring that up is that goals can change especially when you're looking at such a massive system that has no appeal system, no regulation, no oversight, and we've already seen that the rest of the world's reaction to this has been rather slow at this week on wise is happening search for wisest happening wherever you're listening right now and subscribe. The Boise President Derek Johnson is leading organizations lawsuit against the US. Postal Service it's a position he probably never imagined he would be in decades ago growing up in Detroit when mail carriers were such a central part of life in the neighborhood I grew up in somewhat of a rough neighborhood in Detroit, and so the mailman at to I can remember growing now 'cause one retired and other replaced him everybody in the neighborhood knew him and I remember the Otago before. He retired we had to make sure that he delivered the mail earlier now before he said down with the neighborhood and got distracted. Right. But it was a part of the community and how he functioned everybody in the neighborhood. knew him respected him liked Tim. Walking through this lawsuit that the N. Double ACP is filing against the USPS because you use them pretty strong language here you say that postmaster general joys policies are quote willful and blatant attempt to obstruct the mail system end are a direct threat to the people of this nation's right to vote. What are you seeing that really concerns you that point to that that bleed obstruction and Me You're talking about. When you make a decision to take away the postal workers ability to deliver the mail timely in the midst of upcoming election where Mellon voting would be the far method by a large number of citizens across the country. Especially African, Americans, when you look at the Wisconsin primary election in June in the horrific scene of individuals standing in line putting at risk their health. So they can exercise their right to vote there should never be a choice for citizens have to make whether or not they're going to vote or their health and what this postmaster general has done with dismantling. The high capacity machines the with eliminating overtime for postal workers to issue male get out timely in the midst of what will perhaps be a haydn. Mail voting election season I think the question motivations are very clear and we should not have citizens definitely not as after America stand by and do nothing. When think about motivation here? You know there are a lot of people who will point to. The same old playbook from years ago the voter suppression efforts. Disenfranchised Black folks dislodged us from our rights to vote. Do you think this is like pointedly an attempt to suppress the votes of black and Brown and other marginalized people? We have a long history in this country of of manipulating the outcomes of election particularly when it comes to African Americans there's always been an effort to suppress the black VO and to overall subvert democracy. I. Don't think there's a significant part of our population who do not appreciate the fact that we are full citizens that we have protection under law that there is a constitutional guarantee to our participation in all facets of life, and so this is no different whether it's poll tax whether it's literacy tests whether is. Moving precincts all of these things lineup consistent with our history of suppressing the black vote to subvert democracy. We cannot be a representative government if there is a consistent state sanctioned effort to suppress by votes. We talked to I'm a postal worker Chicago who said, you know what he understands you know the media frenzy around was going on but he believes that the the US ps is still in prime position to make sure that everyone gets their ballots. The you think though if things remain as they are at this moment that it could have a real impact on the high stakes twenty twenty presidential election. Is. A game of inches not miles so is not about the ninety nine point, nine percent of the mail getting their timely it is that fraction of a percent which can make a difference in outcome of the election I was used as example, twenty, eight thousand people voted in the city of Detroit in two. Teen and a skip the top of the ticket and eighty percent black city. But Michigan was lost by less than eleven thousand. The outcome was buried in people who actually voted for whatever reason I skipped a top of the ticket. We have to be very clear. The loss of any volt is a threat to our democracy and we should not accept it as a normal was going to be okay it is not okay. Donald Trump has said that if you know if you expand know vote by mail that the Republicans may not win another election. The you think Mellon voting should be expanded or are there actual concerns that the more you expanded that there could be some plain above? Well in the midst of this statement is the problem. We should not fold our election process to meet the interest of a political party. The political party must meet interest of the voters. If your message in of your platforms are strong enough. Then it should attract people, but people should not be routed. Agree with you, and if they don't, then you put up barriers for their participation. Political parties are nothing but vehicles for agendas. And if the agendas that are making up the platform of the party in this moment is inadequate to attract the necessary support of the voting public. Then the public is not the problem, the agendas, the problem. You know obviously president trump's fingerprints are all over what we've been seeing happening. He's wage this war against the post office you know in in part because the Amazon connection, he wants them to charge more because he has a a vendetta against Jeff bezos But then again, the post office has had a tangle of financial difficulties over the years partly because of the way they have to fund upfront the pensions and everything. It's kind of a mess out there. Is there any chance that this is just purely bad optics right known affairs politics involved just the joy just trying to align the post offices financial state is there any chance at all? I, think it is a power grab for the current election to ensure that certain balance will be slowed or prevented from being considered Also think is a long term play around a set of private entities who seek to privatize as much of government as possible. Even the joy owns interest in a company that was doing business with the post office If you look at their whole funding model in their structure, Congress have tamper with the functions of the Pulse Office for years bexley crippling is ability to grow and develop, and yet it has persevere because it's such a durable American is. and. What's interesting about the post office is not being funded by tax dollars is actually running off the fees generate from the services, and so if you if you believe in a business model, allow the model that works for this agency to continue to grow in work in stop. Putting in place barriers to handicap is ability. To Service the American citizens. Derek for all the reasons you mentioned there's great concern about how black voters will be impacted by the changes made at the Postal Service but the postal service also employs a bunch of black folks right? Historically, the USPS has been a a ladder into the middle class for so many black people and black families. Is there any sense of how the joy changes in terms of cutting overtime and all the other things he's done? WILL IMPACT BLACK POSTAL WORKERS You know the post office outside of this they've been under a consistent attack by many in the conservative movement. It is a governmental function has been successful as an American institution but for the legislative bodies taking the resources out of the post office enforcing the boss officer operate on a shoestring yet, they still have been consistently productive. It is a true ladder to middle class African Americans you know are are are we call coming out of high school and people were aggressively seeking a job at the post office as they were considering how to navigate through college and most people who got the job at the post office? That they have steady employment could benefits and the ability to secure health insurers no the between the pulse office in the military those were the ladders for impoverished communities particularly after American communities to really out a living for their family and build out their communities. So, as the end P pushes forward with his lawsuit against the US S. Early last week the joy agree to suspend all cost cutting measures nine on. Friday while testifying the Congress. He made it clear that the postal service will prioritize ballots overall other male. But as you put forward, what else are you looking for for the USPS to do that they haven't already conceded? Is something else Well absolutely, the harm that was caused must be restored you have to repair you have to put those machines by place you need to have a plan of execution to ensure mail delivered timely, and this is not just about the election. These are about individuals who depend on delivery of the postal service for their medications and veterans and others is all. Goes Beyond Ambala it goes through the quality of life that people have grown accustomed to, and some of that is based on the timely delivery of their male. That's why in recent polling you see of seventy eighty percent of people support the post office, and some of the changes that has been done probably will be detrimental to all those who are responsible. So as as you consider the history of the postal service and you consider just how important their role actually is every single day. Even when we're not in an election year is the fight you are waging on behalf of voters about you know more than just twenty twenty. What are you actually fighting for? Or fighting for. The voting, we don't want people to have to make a decision between their life or their health and their right to vote who wants options on the table. But I think what has happened also as opened up the long-term term conversation around the postal service that the systemic attacks on the postal service, over the last twenty years has now come to light. So I think this is step one and we're going to be successful in this. The fact that the house went in on a Saturday in the midst of this pandemic after they had already left for their recess comeback and vote for five billion dollar package that speaks volumes I hope that after this cycles over, we take it out of the partisan consideration we have a system that people have unfettered access to Poli. We must be a representative democracy we cannot spread the message of freedom abroad we not practicing it at home. That was NWC W. C. P. President Derek Johnson along with veteran mail handler J. Thurman we reached out to the US Postal Service for comment on the N.. Double ACP lawsuit but didn't hear back in time for publication. A special thanks to NBC BE Okay Editor Michelle Garcia and report a Curtis Bun for help with today's story. Into America is produced by Isabel Angel Alison Bailey. Aaron Don. Max Jacobs Barbara Rab cleared cy I should turn her and pretty von original music by Hannah's Brown. OUR EXECUTIVE PRODUCER IS ELLEN Franken Steve Lick Tie is executive producer of audio. Mainly, will be back on Wednesday.
143 - The McDonogh ThreeFirst Day of School
"Radio. Welcome to the kitchen sisters present. Six where the kitchen sisters Dave Nelson, N. Nikki Silva High. We WanNA. Tell you about another podcast might enjoy pin-drop from Ted on pin-drop hosts Salim, Rush Walla journeys across the globe to find surprising stories and ideas from each place with local journalists and creators as your guides, you weave through the streets of Bangkok with a motorcycle midwife time travel with dinosaurs behind a hardware store in New Jersey and meet a guy who dresses up as a door to protect citizens from traffic in Mexico City. Listen to pin-drop wherever you get your podcasts. The kitchen sisters present is sponsored by Celestial seasonings in nineteen, sixty, nine, one of celestial seasonings, founders, most seagal handpicked wild herbs from the Rocky Mountains in Colorado and used them to make their I t. in the following years. He sold his herb teas to health. Food stores enhance sewn bags. I have many memories attached to these teas and the beautiful little boxes that they come in my personal favorites. Favorites sleepytime and tension Tamer they source over a hundred tackles for more than thirty five countries purchase directly from the farmers and local community Charlie Haden. Their blend master for over forty years, tastes, and approved every batch of t before it leaves the factory in Boulder by your favourite blend of celestial seasonings on Amazon or anywhere tea is sold. We thank you. Celestial seasonings I, answering the sisters present. I can remember right before I started going mcdonagh nineteen. On and I took a bus ride. To Canal Street we took a bus ride. She was paying the fair, and I sat down right behind the driver. She's zero. No, you can't sit there. And I asked her why and she said well. You don't understand now within in a few weeks you will. So I knew something was about to him. That's Leona Tate. When she was six years old, she was chosen along with three other girls to integrate the public schools in new, Orleans in one, thousand, nine, hundred sixty. We produced the story a few years back and we WANNA put it out there again, because it seems critical particularly now to remember and pay tribute to the many keepers of the archives, the stories the truth about our past, and the long fight for what is fair and just. Remember. Get Dress. And a black car drove up parked in front of the door. The household got real quality. It was the US marshals coming. So my mother and I left, they drove us to the school building and she said sit to the back seat and do not put your face. When we turned the corner. All. I can see was crowds of people. Police on horseback. ACA related to was a parade company. It looked like a modern day. Why do we have to go to school oh Margaret. I didn't think it was a mighty the scared, but I could see these crowds of people, and if they get to me, I thought it was gonNA. Kill me! That morning when the Marshall came to pick my daddy and I. Mother was home. She was a nervous wreck. And she told the Marshall. I'm giving you my baby. This is my baby. And he told her he said. This is my job. and. I'M GONNA take care of baby. You don't have to worry about that. November fourteenth. Nineteen Sixty Leona, tate tessie preval's Guillotine and Ruby. Bridges integrated the public schools in New Orleans six years after Brown was decided. Keep Plessey for generation descendant of Homework Plessey president and CO founder of the and Ferguson Foundation. Brown versus board of Education was the land law school desegregation case there were many challenges in implementing that case I'm Brenda billips Square Co, pastor bt Memorial Congregational United Church of Christ. I'm an archivist preserving the history black education. When it costs implementing Brown versus board of Education New Orleans is chosen by the NAACP and a very courageous judge to schools were selected. William France, and McDonough nineteen. When. Did you first begin to think about Leon going to school at mcdonagh? After we got avocation and you pass the test well. That's what I'll do. She was gone. How did you happen to make the application in the first place? In the pavement and call Eglin Assembly one my mom fill out the application. They selected a hundred and forty five families. They chose five families, but only four could participate. NWPP was working with our parents. I did that I'm the tate. One of the six year old black girls at integrated the all white public schools here in New Orleans Louisiana. There was a lot of planning a great deal of faith and courage for this the happen. The girls had to take test to make sure that they were going to be able to do the work. I can remember. A lady in a man both white standing over me and we would test. It psychologically tested at the school, Board. was mostly. Questions and answers you know so. I must have talked my way. Right through that one, didn't it? Do. You think that she will get better schooling here. Will? Think, she will. We, all faced with either clothing. The schools are integrating. By far the greatest determination to preserve for the children on the Watkinson state Sira Gatien of the races. Because I honestly believe that only on the practice. Can Be properly. Educate the children of both races. The city at that time did not welcome to school integration. When the black girls enrolled in the schools, they each had their own washer protect them. Court order. That was a rookie Marshall Service. It's when I was sent down to new, Orleans and it was pretty scary when we get to MacDonald Nineteen to whole school campus was surrounded by New Orleans policemen, some of them were on horses things that. Went on there undescribable. I couldn't believe. Grew and people would act the way they did. About four girls go to school. One of the things that was in my mind is that I had two small children I'll be damned if anybody's GonNa. Tell them they can't go to school. And that's the way I felt about it. Nobody has the right to tell these ladies that they could not go to school. We as deputy marshals. If, we didn't get the job done. We're going to set the whole movement back. God knows how many years it just had to be done. Burn. The s going up the steps. They didn't know what to do with us. Once we got in there. We said there quite a few hours before we will place in the classroom. Class of white children. Mismile was teaching and all of a sudden. You see children disappearing. Passionate started pulling children out of school before you knew it off. They will go. For the year and a half there was no one else but us and Miss Myers. Mrs To me. What do you think might happen eventually in this? Well I know would happen that? Oh, I couldn't play on that. A Nation long because they. Long Legislature has urged quite parents to resist integration. The legislature took out paid advertisements in New Orleans papers, which urged the parents to boycott. They have not urged violence, but they have said resist integration, boycott the schools and demonstrate peacefully. People. Angry, that was so much hate. They have been taught. that. Black people would somehow hurt their children. And they were so devoted to separation that these little children were actually targets and their families targets. My Dad was a welder and a mechanic. He worked in Saint Bernard Parish, which was highly racist, so my dad's name stay out of the public for a long time. Nobody knew who he was one legislator work. Urge to Lynch Party for what he called integration as white parents. The two of his colleague pointed out. Everybody knows that this manage joking. He didn't really minute. He didn't mean what he said. Probably in the legislature, people did not think he meant that. People should be lynched in New Orleans we won't heavily guarded at night. All Day. Know at least. We were confined. We couldn't play in the yard. We bring our own lunch. We couldn't eat from the cafeteria. I guess for safety reason now with think. We left mcdonagh nineteen after the second grade, because mcdonagh nineteen became a black school. WAS, all, black! End Up people keep us in a white school, so they transferred us to Thomas J Sims? It was total chaos. They were sent over. Tj Sam's another school, but this time the white children didn't leave. We went to Sam's with a school. Full of students didn't want us to be there. They used to beat us ky-ko's. Did Spit on us. I got hit in the stomach with a baseball bat. We will deathly afraid to go in. The cafeteria was scared to use the bathroom alone. There were teachers that the children to call US names. Recess time we'd had a tree. That was our little protection. They endured a lot of violence hostility from teachers who did not welcome them. They were civil rights pioneers at age of six and seven and eight year old. The way that immigration system worked was it started with them six years old in elementary school junior, high and senior high were not integrated until they became age to attend. They were the first to integrate. Every level cool. And their age bracket integration progress as we progress agreed. We reached tenth grade then they opened it up all the way you can go to integrate. Wait will leave in junior high school in sixty nine. We were going to senior high school to Francis Nicholls. That was kind of rough, even was a lot of black students at that school then. We had a confederate flag. The mascot was rebel that caused a lot of friction. They expected the blacks to support the rebel mascot, and they don't WanNa do that I can remember going to school one day walking cafeteria and chas would be thrown and it was an uproar. The police were coming into building. Horseback and white, and the blacks are fighting. They didn't want the mascot to be changed. I asked Tessie. Why didn't you ever talk about this? She said I was finished with civil rights by the time I got to high school. I was done. They will complain to their parents at Tj, Samson. Gill said her dad said you know. He was with Martin Luther King. He said don't fight back. You can't fight. Just gotTa pray. that. We write letters for nothing would be done. I didn't talk about it for years and I'm thinking that I decided to break out. When Barack got elected president and I said. Wow, we really did something. Gail tests in our. We always talked about mcdonagh nineteen. Because it had closed down the before Katrina. Closed. When allowed us to come to the lower nine ward? I I say. Let's go by the school. Let me see what it looks like. You can see the water just hit the bottom level, but it looked fine. And I said well. Something's gotTa be done year. After the inauguration we got together and we put the foundation to him. When they were going to auction mcdonagh nineteen. Leona tate one of those young ladies, and I said let's go together to the school board. We have to let them know that. These are civil rights institutions. That cannot be just auction. Just as our ancestors had been. At the pressing Ferguson Foundation. We're documenting mocking historic sites because they're very few marcus of like history in New Orleans supervision is to do a civil. Rights Museum New Orleans does not have. A civil rights missy, so we're going to allow first civil rights missing. In this built. Each generation has to impart the stories for the future generations so that people will know they are. Ruby Bridges Gail, tested and Leona with a four girls who integrated public education in the deep south on November nineteenth nineteenth sixty. They were chosen as foot soldiers on a front line. The kitchen sisters present is produced by the kitchen sisters with Nathan Dalton and Brandy how? We. Thank our production interns MIRA clancy, Charlotte Landis Taylor. Simmons Katie mccutchen Mary Franklin, Marvin and Paulina Tano Lots of people to give thanks to today we thank Keith policy and phoebe Ferguson founders of the Plessey and Ferguson Foundation. Who Do St- to this story? We'll be doing a piece soon about their foundation and historic plessey versus Ferguson Supreme Court. Case in the meantime here's Keith Plessey talking about the power of one of his foundation's projects historic plaques. After US putting the marker mcdonagh nineteen, where it exists at the Saint Bernard Parish Line in two thousand ten to commemorate the school. The wrecking ball was waiting to knock it down. By placing the marker in front of it, we ceased the wrecking ball seven years later. The National Park Service finally recognized that site as a historic place. The gave the Leona Take Foundation for change a half a million dollars to start refurbishing that school and telling history as all part of our groundwork. Several of the voices you heard in the story were recorded in two thousand ten at Tulane University as part of a reunion and Panel Discussion on the Fiftieth Anniversary of the integration of public schools in New Orleans what an incredible and significant gathering. Voice as you heard, include the unattainable tessie provost Williams and Gail stripling who integrated McDonnell nineteen. You also heard retired deputy US marshals. Charlie Burke Herschel Karner and out Butler. This gathering was the first time the women had reunited with the marshals since November nineteen sixty. We think Tulane University armistead research center history. Department Louisiana Endowment for the Humanities Louisiana Center for Civil Rights and social justice. The US Marshals Museum and most Alan Wider. For the W. Espn Archival News footage in this story we thank Taylor Ci Coin, and Ruta Adelines Brown, media archives and peabody awards collection Uga special collections library. And thanks to Brenda, Flora Audiovisual archivist armistead research center Tulane University. Thank you prospect for New Orleans? A Lotus in spite of the swamp. The story is part of our Levy Stream project in collaboration. With Ben a Jones and associates made possible in part by Ruth. Eufor Tell Foundation and project and. As always we thank the National Endowment for the humanities and the National Endowment for the Arts Art Works. Thanks to Leona Tate. You can find out more about the Leona taped foundation for change and their civil. Rights Museum Project at www Lt, F C. I N C, Dot Org. As always we thank the National Endowment for the humanities and the National Endowment for the Arts Art. Works And One more thank you and last words from activist archivist Brenda Square, who spoke with us about the history of African American public education in New Orleans and about her archival calling. My name is Brenda billips Square Co, pastor Beechy Memorial Congregational United, Church of Christ. I'm an archivist documenting post Katrina New Orleans. On the day of the flood. Was My Saturday work that the Amish that research at Tulane University. The prediction was that it was going to be bad. The city's archives in the basement. WanNa came. We would have floods. Being archivists. I was thinking about the people, but I was also thinking about the records. This is what's in my mind. I said Lord helped me to stay. Focus this pray for the people, but these records. All in my mind is well. My archival Carleen was I. believe part of my spiritual polly. Let the redeemed of the Lord, say sober number the story of the nation of Israel. They had to tell this. Tell your children. You supposed to town. After Katrina, policy makers decided to take over the schools close off the school. I knew that with the takeover of the schools. The history of all these black educators with being destroy actually thrown away in these buildings. There was no effort to preserve it. Public Education was the central focus for blacks coming out of slavery. Alma leaders come out of these schools. So I've been collecting neural histories documenting the fight looking at where we have history recorded, and where the gaps are activists archival work, because in Iran's racial hatred will have you think that you're nobody? Bad History. Bad Theology has crippled our nation. I have a duty as an artist as a preacher and a culture keeper. To preserve this history where I can, because it's all a part of the rich community that we know is America. The kitchen sisters present as part of Radio topiary from P. R.. A curated network of extraordinary cutting edge podcasts created by independent producers. Thanks for listening our fellow Radio Tokens at radio. Diaries have a brand. New Series called the hunker down diaries, featuring stories of people in unexpected circumstances because of the pandemic, each episode is an intimate look at folks on the front lines, people living without a safety net, or those hunkered down with unexpected company. One of my favorite stories is about Joan Newman who's one hundred seven years old. He was five during the flu pandemic of nineteen eighteen. Today. He lives in a senior apartment complex in Sarasota Florida with his fiancee Anita. Simpson they interviewed each other on Anita's one hundredth birthday. Two weeks before we were told, we had to stay in our parliament's. I had done a cold and I was really scared. That just was happening to me. Fortunately, it was just a mild cold. But I was getting anxious because I I wanted to reach hundred. All of a sudden I didn't WANNA die. This is new to me. You always indicated to me. That you had no fear. In l., the reason why I don't want to die. It's because. I'd like big in this relationship and I. Really don't want it to stop. Take a listen to hunker down diaries at radio diaries dot org or wherever you get your podcasts. Radio.
Inside Minneapolis' Push to "Dismantle" the Police
"JACOMB CRY! We have a yes or no question for you. You have the defunding Minneapolis please. Don't WANNA no. More police. Well you're. That was the question. Protesters had for Minneapolis Mayor Jacob fry over the weekend, and when he said he did not support the full abolition of the police chance of shame, shame, shame followed him out. Hello everyone. I'm David. Chalian, the CNN political director. This is the daily DC. Today George Floyd is being laid to rest in Houston next to his mother who he called out for in his last moments of life. And as the country mourns, and his loved ones say their final goodbyes. New Videos have emerged of police killings of black men. In New Mexico a suspect dying in a chokehold in New Jersey trooper, shooting an unarmed black man. And in Austin Texas video released of another black man, Javier Ambler telling police. He can't breathe before dying in their custody. All of this amplifying the spotlight on policing in America, including the question of defunding the police, despite pushback from national leaders, the movement is gaining steam. Level including in Minneapolis where George Floyd died over two weeks ago. Over the weekend, the city council announced its intention to dismantle the police department there. Joining me now to discuss more on his city's plan to eliminate the police department is Minneapolis city councilman Steve Fletcher Councilman Fletcher. For being here, really appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Can you just step back for a moment and tell our listeners? What is the action? The city council is planning to take and why you think it's the best solution to the problem. We saw in Minneapolis. So the action that we're planning to take is to disband the police department that we currently have and create a new. Public Safety Department with a broader mission and an entirely different approach to public safety, and that looks like what. It looks like trying to get the right response to the right calls so right now we send police to a huge range of calls bed. Often they're not the best responders, too. And our goal is to respond with a compassionate and effective response that actually solves problems whether that's mental health professionals whether that's social outreach. There's all kinds of situations where the best person we could send is not who sending right now. I'm sure you're following the national debate going on over this right now. There are a lot of activists using the term defunding the police as you said you and your colleagues are proposing to just completely disbanding the police force as it currently. Exists some people interpret? The defunding police is sort of redirecting resources into the kinds of services. You're talking about without the full dismantling of a force. If you could explain to us why you think reform in some way can't work, but the actually needs to be completely disbanded. Sure, you know I. It's been interesting to be a national discussions because we get a lot of suggestions about what reforms we should try. People say you should do body cams. You should do community policing. You know there's a whole lot of ideas about what my work and it always sort of deflates the conversation when I tell them that we've done all of those things we've had. All of our officers go through implicit bias training. We've had all of our officers. Officers participate in this whole procedural justice process, which is kind of the cutting edge of reform thinking in that industry, and it is not producing the culture change that we need, and so in a lot of cases, I think part of the reason that we're at the point that we are is that we have been proactive about reform and those reforms have been rejected or failed, and so we're to a place where we need to make a more structural change. You said I guess in the New York Times. You were quoted as saying. It's very easy as an activist to call for the abolishment of the police, it is a heavier decision when you realize that it's your constituents that are going to be the victims of crime. You can't respond to if you dismantle that without an alternative I guess my question for you is what do you tell your constituents? WHO Say so? If somebody is breaking into my home, who do I call you know we just. It's such a mind. Shift right I remember back to my third grade lessons about community and police i. get this outdated message. I'm sure you've constituency and say we'll wait. There's no police force. WHO DO I call to protect my house? Somebody's breaking in Yeah so first of all. Let me give credit to activists because I saw that quote in the New York Times two and a little bit out of context. I felt like it was dismissive of incredible work that the activists in Minneapolis have been doing for years to build towards the vision of what police and could look like outside of our current policing structure, and that's actually very important. I think because you know part of our sense that we have a vision. Vision and that we have something before to is that activists who started by calling for abolition didn't stop there. They started building a vision, and they started doing the research and doing their homework and thinking about those solutions, and we are going to have to now have a much broader community conversation, because we need to answer exactly that question and I've been challenging everybody to really think about what was your last interaction with police? Because you're right that since elementary school, we've been told to equate safety with policing comment on one. If you see something, you know they're the people who. Who will help and when you actually ask people? What was your last interaction like? Some people say it was harmful. Some people say it just wasn't that helpful. So the story that we have is if somebody's breaking into my house I'm going to call the police and they're gonNA show up with guns and stop that, but that's not usually the situation that we're talking about. Usually show up after somebody's already gone. They take a report. It's almost insurance function that doesn't need to be done by people with guns, and that's the a huge majority of the work. We're talking about, so we are. are going to have to have a real community conversation. About what kind of response do we need? That can respond to violence and the threat of violence, and what is response look like and it is not an easy conversation is not something that we all have consensus about it is not something that will result in zero capacity to respond with armed force in your vision councilman and again I. Hear Conversations to be had your at the beginning of this process. Not The end totally understand that, but in your vision there are still Minneapolis police officers in some form walking around with sidearm. I I don't know that they're out walking around I mean I think. There's a different dispatch model maybe for situations where we know that forces needed, but I think certainly the vision is that we're not ever leading with a gun and a badge as the thing that we bring to a situation when we don't have a reason to believe that that's absolutely necessary. I think that the question of what does that look like what kind of? Of guardrails do we put on it? How do we decide when it's appropriate? is the kind of thing that we have to figure out over a long period of time, and so there's GonNa. Be a transition period. There's going to be a period where we are responding to nine one one calls the way we always have until we've designed the thing by is. Going to replace it, you know I think the path forward is to do that. Visiting work and to name that in most situations it's potentially escalatory and not actually helpful to send someone who has the threat of arrest and authorized use of force as the thing that they bring into the situation. Yeah I mean calling the police officer like we learned you do. In third grade is not the same thing for everybody in every community. Obviously the head of your local NWPP. Leslie Redmond told CNN that they've been implementing community alternative to policing with even armed citizen patrols. Is that something that is appealing to you or you? Think has a way to work into this new version. You know my gut instinct is no I hope not but I I want to hear from community about why that might be the right response, and what? That might look like I think that that's that is going to be. Be One of the toughest conversations that we have is. How do we relate to weapons? How do we relate to firearms and who has them? And why and what does that look like? It is a challenge for our safety, one of the things that drives people sense of safety all over this country is our inability to regulate the number of guns on the street, and that is certainly going to be a factor that shapes what kinds of solutions were able to consider, and just so I understand until all these conversations are had plans developed questions answered. There would be the current police force in place. So we have to figure out a short term solution and we don't want to impose a short-term solution without doing a lot more listening I and so we may have to have an interim solution. We are in a place where our police department is creating a crisis for our city. We are being sued many different ways over many different things that the police department has done over the last couple of weeks, and we've been making payouts for excessive force lawsuits over the last seven years, and so at some point that becomes untenable, and it's our fiduciary obligation to stop that problem from driving our city into a fiscal crisis. On that note, we're GONNA. Take a brief pause. We'll have a lot more with councilman. Fletcher in just a moment. We expect a lot from our homes. They're more than a place to hang your hat. Your home is where you try your handed gardening new recipes, rest and recharge work and play, and that's why at home advisor. We're committed to keeping your home up running no matter what from the projects that creep up on you like appliance repairs, gutter cleanings and Fox at fixes to the ones you look forward to like creating your very own backyard retreat worthy of a summer vacation we'll find. Find local pros to help you get the job done right use the homeadvisor APP day or night to get matched with the best pros for your projects. You can book and pay for more than one hundred projects with just a few taps, plus see the tasks trending in your neighborhood whether you need a last minute fix routine home, maintenance or an exciting new upgrade. HOMEADVISOR is standing by ready to do everything to fix your everything. Download the HOMEADVISOR APP today to get started. We're BACK WITH MINNEAPOLIS CITY COUNCILMAN Steve Fletcher. Ran For city council on a platform of police reform, but can you take us through the evolution of when the sort of platform performing ran on morphed into dismantling the police department in its entirety you know. I think it's been very similar to my constituents, although certainly I've. I've gotten a very inside view of how this stuff works. But most of us hoped that we could fix it I think. Most of US had the vision that we'd grown up with we hoped was salvageable, and we have seen it so resisted in. Important ways and in really mundane ways so small policy changes that we've tried to make have been rejected. We saw the mayor tried to ban warrior training, which is, this is video series that people watch that really encourages them to be desperately afraid of every human interaction that they have because anybody might pull a gun on them at any time, and it's so. So it's a really toxic training. In terms of encouraging sort of panicked shootings, it felt like kind of a symbolic fight, but even that you know there's the police federation resisted every minor attempts at even symbolic reforms, and so there's not a lot of hope at this point, and even the big stuff you know. We watched our our chief. WHO I. I. Think is the person who most could have reformed this department if it was possible. He has tremendous vision and heart, and you know even when he terminated officers for excessive force, traders would send them back. The Federation would defend them, and and he would end up with them back out on the street against his will and I. Don't know how you. You improve a culture where you can't even get rid of people who violate that culture to the extreme as you know, the mayor of your city is not in favor of dismantling The police department in its entirety I. Wonder what's your message to him? When you hear him, say that abolishing the police entirely is not the right way to go. I I think it's clear that he and I disagree I. Think that he I hope he gets there and beyond that I'm Gonna I'm GonNA resist the temptation to communicate with him through the media. He's got my phone number. I've got his phone number, and and I do hope that we can work together I think the legacy of the people in city government. At this moment is going to be what we do next, and I hope that he digs into be a part of it. Do you need him to be onboard. How how does the actual functioning of the Government worked? There is this purely in the purview of the council so the way our charter structured the police department reports to the mayor, and the budget is approved by the council so we have leverage. We have levers of power. We don't have the ability to directly right policy for the police department, so that reform has always had to. To go through the mayor's office to the extent that we're doing reform efforts, but budgetary approval is something that you know, essentially the nine of us, getting out there and saying this is the pathway getting on this is where we're going is a way of signalling. You don't have budgetary support for what you're envisioning here and nine of you. That's a veto proof. Majority is a not that is a veto proof majority. I, waiting to listen to what the police chief in Houston had to say about Your City Council's plan. Just, banning the police is, doesn't make any sense Invitation to chaos. That's not what this nation's about I. I hope that what the Council Minneapolis is saying is that maybe their department needs to reinvent itself. There's a way to actually do those things, but the do it. just from the HIP. would be disastrous for any said. What's your response? I think that. If we start from an assumption that we had a stable system that was working that somehow the council is destabilizing now with our actions than I would understand his perspective, but that is not how we're experiencing. our lives in Minneapolis right now, We're not starting from system that works. We are not starting from a system that is reliably protecting us. We are not starting from system that feels like it's behaving predictably. In fact, it's behaving wildly unpredictably and provoking significant chaos, so when I hear the sounds like it could provoke chaos I feel like we're trying to get work our way out. Out of chaos, because you are a politician elected official, I want to delve into the politics of this for a moment and broaden it out a nationally of course, but I want you to hear from the Democratic standard-bearer Joe Biden a presidential candidate. He spoke to CBS news yesterday and was asked about this notion of defending the police. Here's what Vice President Biden had to say. No I. Don't support defunding police I. support conditioning federal aid to police based on or not they meet certain basic standards of decency on Honorable Lewis, and in fact are able to demonstrate they can protect the community and everybody in the community and Joe Biden is is not alone a councilman as you may have seen House majority leader Steny Hoyer, senators Joe Manchin and Dick Durbin even Jim Clyburn From South Carolina the. Whip. All sort of wanted to step away from the? defunding police movement and the abolishment of police departments. They seem to think it's a terrible idea. Politically. What do you say? You Know I. I. Know What's happening locally. I know what? People who live in Minneapolis are telling me they need and want I am not thinking about politics much right now I think it's actually pretty important that we focus on solutions, and then we focus on safety and I would invite you know anybody who's skeptical of this, and and you know I. I think particularly. Mr Biden into conversation about what we've tried about how we would measure qualification for those kinds of standards about the reasons that were skeptical about that kind of an approach. I I I would love to be in dialogue with him at least and I I wouldn't necessarily expect that at a national level. This is something that's good. I I I don't do national politics support his bid for the presidency. I'm assuming he'll be the Democratic nominee and I'll be supporting him even if He doesn't adopt sort of what you guys are proposing. You know I think sometimes the farther politics gets from the local. The more challenging I can get but I. Know that locally in our community. We're GONNA. Do what our community needs and we're frankly not gonNA. Worry about national noise about I mean local politics can get tricky to of course I'm sure you know Finally before I let you go. Sir I, do want to just ask about the community, and obviously your community has gone through a and going through a very painful time, and is doing so in the glare of the national spotlight as well and I'm just wondering. You're talking to people all the time who live in your city who live in the district you represent. How are your constituents doing right now? You know I think people are in shock. We've had compounding crises with covid and then. The tragedy of George Floyd's killing the. And the police violence that followed and I think people are reeling. I mean people are really feeling. You know deeply shaken and I think that as we have these conversations where we start to envision the future, and we start to talk about safety. People are finding that in many cases a relief to be talking about solutions and to be starting to talk about the future, and and a future that we feel like rises to the moment, and as responsive to the very serious times that we're living through. Minneapolis city councilman Steve Fletcher Thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it. Thank you. And a special thanks to our listeners as well remember. We publish a new episode every weeknight, so please subscribe on your favorite podcast. APP Log. They're considered leaving a rating or comment. It helps people find the show. and. If you want to tweet about this podcast, please do so using the Hashtag the daily DC. Stay safe stay healthy. We'll see you tomorrow.